from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Jan  1 07:52:19 2000

Subject: Re: New Lie-Nielsen Block Plane?

I thought this was the one we had been communicating about recently--
withthe grooved sole. It is just slightly wider than my planing form, easy
toadjust, and the blade seems to be of good quality. I certainly enjoy
usingmine. Fits my smaller hand nicely. I believe that I purchased mine
aboutthis time last year, if I am not mistaken.  I believe Wayne C. called it
toour attention back then.J. Snider

At 04:10 PM 12/31/1999 -0800, Randy Brewer wrote:I was just looking at
the Lie-Nielsen site and it appears they have a newstandard angle block plane
modified for rod builders, unless I've beenmissing something. As usual, no
financial interest, etc. [but I should buysome stock].

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/ambp.tmpl

Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com

from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Jan  1 08:17:16 2000

Subject: Re: Millenium

Christian, 

You must be planning on spending a lot of time celebrating (about ayear)
since the new millennium doesn't start until 2001!

This guy I want to get to know.

Christian Meinke wrote:

A Happy New to all,

I am leaving home now in a few minutes to celebrate with ourneighbours.

So hopefully everything will still be working when we will return inyear 2000.

Christian

-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland  MI  49464------

home page:  http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy
pages:http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jan  1 09:08:24 2000

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs

Screw threads used as fasteners are standardized,  such as NC,
NF,METRIC,where a diameter matches the pitch., e.g. 1/4-20, 3/8-16 etc.  
Connectingthreads can be whatever pitch and diameter the designer chooses
that willbestsuit the application.A fishing rod extension butt would fall into
this category and a tap and diecould well have to be special order.

Ed Riddle wrote:

David et. al. contributors to this thread:

I will endeavor to check my paper files tomorrow between games inhopes
ofbeing helpful rather than cute: (Still, M.G.'s get more expensive with age)

The Brits, in addition to providing affordable export (to USA)
sportycars;a.k.a., "cheap", had a myriad of threaded fittings during that
era.British Standard Whitworth (BSW), British Standard Fine (BSF),
BritishStandard Pipe Tapered (BSPT) and British Association Form (BA).If,
for whatever reason I don't get back to you or can't help, trycontacting: 
Metric & Multistandard Components Corp., 198 Saw MillRiverRoad , Elmsford,
N. Y. 10523.A lotta good stuff on "Rodmakers" today.  Happy New Year!!Ed (in
north central North Carolina)-----Original Message-----From: McFall David 

Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: English Bamboo Rod -
extension handle repairs

I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder
to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to go intothe rod
handle.  I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one
on the list can steer me in the correct direction. Thethread o.d. is 0.352"
(approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18tpi.

Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net

Many thanks and Season Greetings

Dave M

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  1 09:41:41 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 1 Jan 2000 09:32:47 -0600

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs

Travers Tool has so many odd sizes of taps and dies, and at
mostreasonableprices. This is what led me to make them my major tool
supplier severalyears ago. The 9mm - 1.25 pitch metric tap, is under $8, as
an example. Ihave a 9/16" -48 tap and die set, that would be over $100, 
from any othersupplier, I have found. This was a stock item for Travers, and
the cost wasaround $30 !

I use many such weird sizes now in my main business, as before the
costwasjust prohibitive.

BTW if you know the threads per inch, divide this number into 25, and itwill
give you the approximate metric pitch of the thread. There are anumberof
metric sizes, that have a comparable size in inch threads, as  in a 5-40,is a
direct swap out for a metric 3mm - .6 pitch.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs

Screw threads used as fasteners are standardized,  such as NC,
NF,METRIC,where a diameter matches the pitch., e.g. 1/4-20, 3/8-16 etc. 
Connectingthreads can be whatever pitch and diameter the designer chooses
thatwillbestsuit the application.A fishing rod extension butt would fall into
this category and a tap anddiecould well have to be special order.

Ed Riddle wrote:

David et. al. contributors to this thread:

I will endeavor to check my paper files tomorrow between games
inhopesofbeing helpful rather than cute: (Still, M.G.'s get more expensive
withage)

The Brits, in addition to providing affordable export (to USA)
sportycars;a.k.a., "cheap", had a myriad of threaded fittings during that
era.British Standard Whitworth (BSW), British Standard Fine (BSF),
BritishStandard Pipe Tapered (BSPT) and British Association Form (BA).If,
for whatever reason I don't get back to you or can't help, trycontacting: 
Metric & Multistandard Components Corp., 198 Saw MillRiverRoad , Elmsford,
N. Y. 10523.A lotta good stuff on "Rodmakers" today.  Happy New Year!!Ed (in
north central North Carolina)-----Original Message-----From: McFall David 

Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: English Bamboo Rod -
extension handle repairs

I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder
to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to gointothe rod
handle.  I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one
on the list can steer me in the correct direction.Thethread o.d. is 0.352"
(approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18tpi.

Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net

Many thanks and Season Greetings

Dave M

from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Jan  1 10:07:51 2000

Subject: Fw: British Thread

Dave:Closest American I find in what used to be better files is:UNC (Unified
National Course) : Nominal Dia. 5/16" = UNC tpi 18 .Wish I could'a helped.Ed---
--Original Message-----

Subject: British Thread

Dave:I may have tossed my thick book with the most info, can't find it...why
doIdo that?  The limited tables I find for the Threads I mentioned earlierdon't
produce a match.  Someone said 9 mm and that is close on the o.d.,butI don't
have a table with a pitch # on that.  I found an old (10 years ago)phone # for
M&MCC, (914) 769-5020, I think it was their "thick catalog"thatI can't
find.Re yesterday:  BSW 18tpi = 5/16" dia.,   BSF 18tpi = 7/16" dia.    BA
sizestoo small , largest = .236" dia.,  BSF - .383" dia = 28tpi....so, call
Mossfirst, then M&MCC, sorry I don't know metric...good luck.Ed

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan  1 10:10:13 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: Re: Drip tubes

boundary="=====================_808399==_.ALT"

--=====================_808399==_.ALT

Good question. haven't done enough sections too notice. ANyone fathom
aguess?Bob

At 02:55 PM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:It seems that covering the valve in
solvent is solely to keep it clean and functional.  This would indicate that the
valve is open during this time.  What is the effect of the solvent fumes on
the newly finished rod section?-----Original Message-----From: bob
mauluccibob@downandacross.com>

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 1:39
PMSubject: Re: Drip tubes

I fill a coffee can with mineral spirits and come up 
from under the valve to cover the opening. Yes, you got it. (This is in Darryl's
old posts)I also wonder about leaving the blank in the tube while the varnish
warmed. Would that work? I was afraid it might get too thick. Guys?Bob

At 11:47 AM 12/31/99 -0600, you wrote:

Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. One question --I'm
not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent upwards
fromthebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough
tocoverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the
tubewhere it might touch the blank?

Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true of
mypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if I
couldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for an
houror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it this way?

Barry

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:55 AM

Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Drip Tube

HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner
ofmybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with
enoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or
mineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with
alargelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to
passthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenly
aroundthetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it.
Fillwithvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but
thisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results.
Afterabout2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the
tube andput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have
headroom.) Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into
the tubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when
youcompletelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a
towel. Iputthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve
for avery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I
don'tthinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent.
I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away.
Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping
out,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve in
mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent
upwardsfromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH
MINERALSPIRITS!) ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for
12-24 hours. Ileavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in
my closet andfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note,
that I extracted all these ideas 
from Darrly H and theheater

from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in
thearchivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it
is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob

At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:

Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and
learnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more.  Has this
assembly and itsuse been described anywhere more fully?  If so,
where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci 

Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:52
AMSubject: RE: Wipe on finishes

Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an
hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I
amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in mysplices

coupler 
from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff
($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready togo.This setup
works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set
the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag.Ileave it in the tube
for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has
lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner andpropit up under the setup to keep
the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea.
The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and
then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards,

Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY
14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229
Faxbob@downandacross.com

Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY --
=====================_808399==_.ALT

Good question. haven't done enough sections too notice. ANyone fathom
aguess?Bob

At 02:55 PM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:It seems that covering the valve

effect of the solvent fumes on the newly finished rodsection?-----
OriginalMessage-----

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 1:39 PMSubject: Re: Drip tubes

I fill a coffee can with mineral spirits and come up 
from underthe valve to cover the opening. Yes, you got it. (This is in Darryl's
oldposts) I also wonder about leaving the blank in the tube while the
varnishwarmed. Would that work? I was afraid it might get too thick.
Guys?Bob

At 11:47 AM 12/31/99 -0600, you wrote:

Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. One question--I'm
not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent
upwardsfromthebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just
high enoughto coverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up
into thetubewhere it might touch the blank?

Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true
ofmypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if
Icouldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for
anhouror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it thisway?

Barry

-----Original Message-----

]

Subject: Re: Drip Tube

HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner
ofmybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there,
withenoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish
ormineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with
alargelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish
topassthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped
evenlyaround thetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish
in it. Fillwithvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little,
butthisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results.
Afterabout2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the
tubeandput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have
headroom.)Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into
thetubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when
youcompletelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a
towel. Iputthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve
foravery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I
don'tthinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent.
Ialsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away.
Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all
drippingout,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I
submerge the valvein mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping
the solvent upwardsfromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE
WITH MINERALSPIRITS!)ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it
for 12-24 hours. Ileavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang
in my closetandfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note,
that I extracted all these ideas 
from Darrly H and theheater

from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in
thearchivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about
1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way
outtovarnish.Bob

At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:

Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and
learnhowto use!

and its

Thanks.Ed-----Original Message-----

Subject: RE: Wipe on finishes

hour

am

splices

($10), a

glue/bonding

to go.

warm the

sag. I

easy to

and prop

the

Thanksguys!)

bothworlds.

Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY
14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229
Faxbob@downandacross.com

Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY

--=====================_808399==_.ALT--

from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Jan  1 10:22:14 2000

Subject: Re: British Thread

CORRECTION:BSP (NOT BSF) - .383" dia = 28tpi....Ed-----Original Message-----

Subject: Fw: British Thread

from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Jan  1 10:24:31 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: Happy New Year!

After a small fright, my computer which failed to boot the first time, Ihadto
hit the reset button and after the scandisk routine it booted okay andseems
to be working fine...

Well, any riots in the streets? Water shutdown? I haven't checked to
seeifthe tv works yet. Anybody get a Y2K virus attack?

Happy New Year to all fellow Caneheads out there in cyberspace!

Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com

P.S. I've added some fishing reports to my web page and a few
otheradditions. Ciao!

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jan  1 10:28:45 2000

RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension
handle repairs

The guy that originally posted the query lives in my city and I happen tohave
2screw cutting lathes in my basement so I can fix him up with
whateverthread hewants ( as long as the pitch is within what my machines
can produce)I know guys on the list try to be helpful, but unless you know for
certainthedia and the pitch of the female thread it is pointless ordering
anything.Thereis also the problem with being able to purchase the correct
diameter rodor tubeto match the thread you want to cut on it.There is
nothing like this list for wasting life on, eh?

nobler wrote:

Travers Tool has so many odd sizes of taps and dies, and at
mostreasonableprices. This is what led me to make them my major tool
supplier severalyears ago. The 9mm - 1.25 pitch metric tap, is under $8, as
an example. Ihave a 9/16" -48 tap and die set, that would be over $100, 
from anyothersupplier, I have found. This was a stock item for Travers, and
the costwasaround $30 !

I use many such weird sizes now in my main business, as before the
costwasjust prohibitive.

BTW if you know the threads per inch, divide this number into 25, and itwill
give you the approximate metric pitch of the thread. There are anumberof
metric sizes, that have a comparable size in inch threads, as  in a 5-40,is a
direct swap out for a metric 3mm - .6 pitch.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "TERENCE ACKLAND" 

Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:12 AMSubject: Re: English Bamboo
Rod - extension handle repairs

Screw threads used as fasteners are standardized,  such as NC,
NF,METRIC,where a diameter matches the pitch., e.g. 1/4-20, 3/8-16 etc. 
Connectingthreads can be whatever pitch and diameter the designer chooses
thatwillbestsuit the application.A fishing rod extension butt would fall into
this category and a tap anddiecould well have to be special order.

Ed Riddle wrote:

David et. al. contributors to this thread:

I will endeavor to check my paper files tomorrow between games
inhopesofbeing helpful rather than cute: (Still, M.G.'s get more expensive
withage)

The Brits, in addition to providing affordable export (to USA)
sportycars;a.k.a., "cheap", had a myriad of threaded fittings during that
era.British Standard Whitworth (BSW), British Standard Fine
(BSF),BritishStandard Pipe Tapered (BSPT) and British Association Form
(BA).If, for whatever reason I don't get back to you or can't help,
trycontacting:  Metric & Multistandard Components Corp., 198 Saw
MillRiverRoad , Elmsford, N. Y. 10523.A lotta good stuff on "Rodmakers"
today.  Happy New Year!!Ed (in north central North Carolina)-----Original
Message-----From: McFall David 

Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: English Bamboo Rod -
extension handle repairs

I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod.Inorder
to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to gointothe rod
handle.  I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one
on the list can steer me in the correct direction.Thethread o.d. is 0.352"
(approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18tpi.

Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net

Many thanks and Season Greetings

Dave M

from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan  1 10:46:28 2000

(SMTPD32-5.05) id AECCE10112; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:43:56 -0500

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs

If so, it may be time for some sort of Heli-coil insertion!Art

At 10:12 AM 01/01/2000 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Screw threads
used as fasteners are standardized,  such as NC, NF,METRIC,where a
diameter matches the pitch., e.g. 1/4-20, 3/8-16 etc.  Connectingthreads
can be whatever pitch and diameter the designer chooses thatwillbestsuit
the application.A fishing rod extension butt would fall into this category and
a tap anddiecould well have to be special order.

Ed Riddle wrote:

David et. al. contributors to this thread:

I will endeavor to check my paper files tomorrow between games inhopes
ofbeing helpful rather than cute: (Still, M.G.'s get more expensive withage)

The Brits, in addition to providing affordable export (to USA)
sportycars;a.k.a., "cheap", had a myriad of threaded fittings during that
era.British Standard Whitworth (BSW), British Standard Fine (BSF),
BritishStandard Pipe Tapered (BSPT) and British Association Form (BA).If,
for whatever reason I don't get back to you or can't help, trycontacting: 
Metric & Multistandard Components Corp., 198 Saw MillRiverRoad , Elmsford,
N. Y. 10523.A lotta good stuff on "Rodmakers" today.  Happy New Year!!Ed (in
north central North Carolina)-----Original Message-----From: McFall David 

Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: English Bamboo Rod -
extension handle repairs

I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder
to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to go intothe rod
handle.  I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one
on the list can steer me in the correct direction. Thethread o.d. is 0.352"
(approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18tpi.

Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net

Many thanks and Season Greetings

Dave M

*Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have 
been able to make out the numbers.*

from landeens@home.com Sat Jan  1 12:11:10 2000

with SMTP

Subject: 1999 Beginner Report

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF5440.E42F2BC0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF5440.E42F2BC0

I started building bamboo rods in May 99 and have built 14 so far. Six =of
them were handplaned and the last 8 were done on the Morgan hand =mill. I
built 5 Driggs Specials (7' 2"), 2 Paul Young Para 15 (8'), 1 =Sir D (7'), 1 AJ
Thramer 8' DX, 2 Farlows (6' 2"), 1 Bogart Shenendoah =Supreme, 1 Bogart
Yellow Rose and a 6' 10" Leonard 2pc that I converted =to a four pc. Some
general observations 
from a beginner: All of the rods =cast great and I fished with several of
them last summer in Northern =

=I built the last Para 15 nodeless and I think most of my rods 
from now =on will be nodeless. Splitting, straightening and heating is much
easier =and I think it takes less time. Gluing the strips so they come out
=straight has been a little tricky. Some of the strips tend to twist. The
=four pc rod was built totally 
from scrap 
from several different culms =and it turned out great. It casts 60-70 ft
without a problem and it is =very accurate. I plan on continuing building rods 
from scrap for family =gifts. The one thing I have learned is that there are
several different =ways to build a bamboo rod and we all have to come up
with doing what is=more comfortable for us. Many of the well meaning
statements in many of=the books about what to do and not do are simply not
true and many times=are based soley on opinion.

I have appreciated all the info 
from everyone on this board. It is one =of the few hobbies where everyone
seems to have no reservations about =giving tips and advice. My son home 
from college this week started =building his first rod and hopefully it will be
done by August when we =fish the Wind Rivers in Wyo for a week. Have a
good year everyone.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF5440.E42F2BC0

I started building bamboo rods in May 99 and have =

far. Six of them were handplaned and the last 8 were done on the Morgan =

mill. I built 5 Driggs Specials (7' 2"), 2 Paul Young Para 15 (8'), 1 =

(7'), 1 AJ Thramer 8' DX, 2 Farlows (6' 2"), 1 Bogart Shenendoah =

Bogart Yellow Rose and a 6' 10" Leonard 2pc that I converted to a four =

general observations 
from a beginner: All of the rods cast great =

fished with several of them last summer in Northern Idaho for cutthroat. =

reccommend all of them without reservation. I built the last Para 15 =

straightening and heating is much easier and I think it takes less time. =

the strips so they come out straight has been a little tricky. Some of =

strips tend to twist. The four pc rod was built totally 
from scrap 
from =

different culms and it turned out great. It casts 60-70 ft without a =

it is very accurate. I plan on continuing building rods 
from scrap for =

gifts. The one thing I have learned is that there are several different =

comfortable for us. Many of the well meaning statements in many of the =

about what to do and not do are simply not true and many times are based=

on opinion.

I have appreciated all the info 
from everyone on =

It is one of the few hobbies where everyone seems to have no =

giving tips and advice. My son home 
from college this week started =

first rod and hopefully it will be done by August when we fish the Wind =

in Wyo for a week. Have a good yeareveryone.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF5440.E42F2BC0--

from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat Jan  1 12:17:08 2000

Subject: Drip Tube Seal

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF5449.A8E096E0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF5449.A8E096E0

While we're on the subject of drip tubes, here's a trick, and I can't
=remember where I picked it up, but it seems to work well. When you're
=going to leave the varnish in the tube for some time, take plastic wrap =and
ease it down inside the tube and over the varnish. Take a =screwdriver et. al.
and smooth it out around the tube and on the varnish =surface, and then
screw your cap in while holding the extra wrap in =place on the outside of the
tube. Takes all of the air out above the =varnish. I've been putting a strong
rubber band around the wrap, but I =

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF5449.A8E096E0

While we're on the subject of drip =

trick, and I can't remember where I picked it up, but it seems to work =

When you're going to leave the varnish in the tube for some time, take =

wrap and ease it down inside the tube and over the varnish. Take a =

et. al. and smooth it out around the tube and on the varnish surface, =

screw your cap in while holding the extra wrap in place on the outside =

tube. Takes all of the air out above the varnish. I've been putting a =

Where or whomever I got this from, =

Jim 

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF5449.A8E096E0--

from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jan  1 12:42:43 2000

Subject: Re: Agate guides

That is a very good way to do it visually, and should work every time.One
other way is Agatine is really glass with a hardness of 5 on theMohs scale.
Real agate is microcrystalline quartz with a hardnessof 7. A knife blade,
hardness 5, will scratch glass but not agate.

Which brings up why real agate is desirable over agatine. Dirt or sandsticking
to your flyline and being dragged through the stripping guidewill wear agatine
faster than real agate.

Somebody should make synthetic ruby stripping guides, hardnessof
9.....Darryl

Without consulting a gemologist - the color or should I say the cloudyor
mottled color of Agate versus the clear uniform color Agatine is usually the
giveaway. Agatine issynthetic and is clear and uniform - Agate is a
naturalstone and usually has "Character" to it.

Chris

--Original Message Text---From: noblerDate: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:32:37 -
0600

Is there a way to tell if a guide is the real thing, as in agate, as opposed to
the "Agatine", or other guides of this type. I have a number of guides 
from old rods made, when such guides were common, but have no way to tell
what isthe real thing.

GMA

from can@telusplanet.net Sat Jan  1 12:44:32 2000

telusplanet.net") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with ESMTP

Subject: Dickerson/Payne

Anybody built/cast Dickerson 7613 or Payne 101, any comments on
actionetc.??CheersCraig

from martinjensen@home.com Sat Jan  1 14:38:27 2000

(InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP

;Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:38:24 -0800

Subject: RE: Drip Tube Seal

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5454.D0C1A180"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5454.D0C1A180

I bought a can of compressed inert gas at a wood workers store. I think itis
Nitrogen or something like that. Anyway, it is heavier than air and youspray
some in the top of the tube and it displaces the air inside and thenyou cap it.
I kept varnish in a tube for 2 years, opened it up and dipped acouple of rods
no problem. I did have to scrape a few dried chunks ofvarnish off the inside
of the tube but the dipping went just fine.-----Original Message-----From:
owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

FreemanSent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:17 AM

Subject: Drip Tube Seal

While we're on the subject of drip tubes, here's a trick, and I can'tremember
where I picked it up, but it seems to work well. When you'regoingto leave the
varnish in the tube for some time, take plastic wrap and easeit down inside
the tube and over the varnish. Take a screwdriver et. al. andsmooth it out
around the tube and on the varnish surface, and then screwyour cap in while
holding the extra wrap in place on the outside of thetube. Takes all of the air
out above the varnish. I've been putting a strongrubber band around the
wrap, but I don't know if that really helps.

Where or whomever I got this from, thanks.

Jim

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5454.D0C1A180

bought a can of compressed inert gas at a wood workers store. I think it =

Nitrogen or something like that. Anyway, it is heavier than air and you =

some in the top of the tube and it displaces the air inside and then you =

rods no problem. I did have to scrape a few dried chunks of varnish off =

inside of the tube but the dipping went just fine.

& =

SealWhile we're on the subject of drip =

a trick, and I can't remember where I picked it up, but it seems to =

When you're going to leave the varnish in the tube for some time, take =

wrap and ease it down inside the tube and over the varnish. Take a =

et. al. and smooth it out around the tube and on the varnish surface, =

screw your cap in while holding the extra wrap in place on the outside =

tube. Takes all of the air out above the varnish. I've been putting a =

Where or whomever I got this from, =

Jim =

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5454.D0C1A180--

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jan  1 16:48:39 2000

Subject: beveller

After promising myself never to hand plane another rod, it has taken me2
years to get a beveller up and running that really works for me. Thatis the
ability to produce 2 rods 
from 1 culm.I had seen the Dickerson beveller and it did not look very
promising asit was designed and I decided to build something better. I built
severalprototypes and wasted a lot of cane, which is a problem with
bevellers,they waste cane.I concentrated on building a machine that would
cut a complete tipsection to the smallest size i.e.. .032, I would then at least
have theconfidence that the last 6ins of strip being tapered will
notdisintegrate on the last cut!After several attempts with different cutter
geometries and clampingarrangements I finally produced a 4ft strip of .032 
from flat to apex.I stuck the strip in a tube and mailed it off to Uncle
George. It was alittle bit of a wind up because I knew he was struggling in real
termsand he was doing with his mouth what I had wanted to do with product.
Itwas fun, he called me a couple of times but I was "out".A week later I
adjusted my machine and produced a second 4ft strip, thistime of .025 
from apex to flat which I sent to Len Codella because being

from Leonard and T&T, he knows the business and he wants some
morerods.He put an indicator over the length of the strip and found a
deviationof only .0005 over just one node!Over the last couple of weeks I
have machined up 6 blanks (108) finishedto size strips that are far more
accurate than I could ever have handplaned them and I had  zero percent
scrap.I am back in business and after Uncle George's ass.Do not ask me for
details of my machine, it has cost me a lot of moneyand if you are just an
amateur builder it would be more than you wouldneed and if you are a
professional  maker you would be in directcompetition with me and well.... I
am not looking to get a thread going or want any comments, it is justa
statement of what I am up to and where I am going.I feel very excited the
way cane is being accepted by mainstream flyfishermen and I predict good
sales for all us makers, provided we canproduce the goods.A happy and
prosperous new year, T. Ackland

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jan  1 17:21:27 2000

Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:21:19 -0800

Subject: Re: rod tube findings

Bob, and others --When you use one of these tubes with lined compartments,
do youforegoa rod bag?  Or does the bag just keep the rod sections 
from bangingagainsteach other.

Just wondering --Harry

bob maulucci wrote:

A short while back I mentioned that I ordered some Cordura tubes
withlinedcompartments. They turned out great. I also got special lengths, 
evencustom embroidered at $3 extra. I have no interest other than giving
youall a  nice option for tubes. The 4 I ordered came out great, sturdy,
nicelooking, and personalized. I think I will use them 
from now on. Here istheir
site:http://www.redcedarmfg.com/Straight.htmHope this doesn't violate any
protocol,

Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  1 17:33:41 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:24:48 -0600

Subject: Re: beveller

Congratulations, for you have accomplished a fine engineering feat ! I canjust
imagine the amount of hours involved !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: beveller

After promising myself never to hand plane another rod, it has taken me2
years to get a beveller up and running that really works for me. Thatis the
ability to produce 2 rods 
from 1 culm.I had seen the Dickerson beveller and it did not look very
promising asit was designed and I decided to build something better. I built
severalprototypes and wasted a lot of cane, which is a problem with
bevellers,they waste cane.I concentrated on building a machine that would
cut a complete tipsection to the smallest size i.e.. .032, I would then at least
have theconfidence that the last 6ins of strip being tapered will
notdisintegrate on the last cut!After several attempts with different cutter
geometries and clampingarrangements I finally produced a 4ft strip of .032 
from flat to apex.I stuck the strip in a tube and mailed it off to Uncle
George. It was alittle bit of a wind up because I knew he was struggling in real
termsand he was doing with his mouth what I had wanted to do with product.
Itwas fun, he called me a couple of times but I was "out".A week later I
adjusted my machine and produced a second 4ft strip, thistime of .025 
from apex to flat which I sent to Len Codella because being

from Leonard and T&T, he knows the business and he wants some
morerods.He put an indicator over the length of the strip and found a
deviationof only .0005 over just one node!Over the last couple of weeks I
have machined up 6 blanks (108) finishedto size strips that are far more
accurate than I could ever have handplaned them and I had  zero percent
scrap.I am back in business and after Uncle George's ass.Do not ask me for
details of my machine, it has cost me a lot of moneyand if you are just an
amateur builder it would be more than you wouldneed and if you are a
professional  maker you would be in directcompetition with me and well....I am
not looking to get a thread going or want any comments, it is justa
statement of what I am up to and where I am going.I feel very excited the
way cane is being accepted by mainstream flyfishermen and I predict good
sales for all us makers, provided we canproduce the goods.A happy and
prosperous new year, T. Ackland

from cadams46@juno.com Sat Jan  1 18:05:31 2000

19:04:52 EST

Subject: Lie-Neilsen

I went to the Lie-Neilsen site and am impressed with the looks of theirplanes, 
I use a stanley now.  Which is the perferable plane the Standardor Low angle? 
ThanksC.R. Adams

from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jan  1 18:33:14 2000

(SMTPD32-5.05) id AE0C5AFF0116; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 19:38:36 -0500

Subject: Re: beveller

Terry,Congratulations and may you continue as you are going. It will
bewonderful to know that there is someone out there producing cane rods
ataprofit.I'm finally working on a beveler and hope to have all my parts
shortly.I'll be using saws rather than a mill. But, at no time do I ever hope,
orwish, to make a living 
from cane. This is fun... I can "work" at otherthings.Best regards,Reed

TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:

After promising myself never to hand plane another rod, it has taken me2
years to get a beveller up and running that really works for me. Thatis the
ability to produce 2 rods 
from 1 culm.I had seen the Dickerson beveller and it did not look very
promising asit was designed and I decided to build something better. I built
severalprototypes and wasted a lot of cane, which is a problem with
bevellers,they waste cane.I concentrated on building a machine that would
cut a complete tipsection to the smallest size i.e.. .032, I would then at least
have theconfidence that the last 6ins of strip being tapered will
notdisintegrate on the last cut!After several attempts with different cutter
geometries and clampingarrangements I finally produced a 4ft strip of .032 
from flat to apex.I stuck the strip in a tube and mailed it off to Uncle
George. It was alittle bit of a wind up because I knew he was struggling in real
termsand he was doing with his mouth what I had wanted to do with product.
Itwas fun, he called me a couple of times but I was "out".A week later I
adjusted my machine and produced a second 4ft strip, thistime of .025 
from apex to flat which I sent to Len Codella because being

from Leonard and T&T, he knows the business and he wants some
morerods.He put an indicator over the length of the strip and found a
deviationof only .0005 over just one node!Over the last couple of weeks I
have machined up 6 blanks (108) finishedto size strips that are far more
accurate than I could ever have handplaned them and I had  zero percent
scrap.I am back in business and after Uncle George's ass.Do not ask me for
details of my machine, it has cost me a lot of moneyand if you are just an
amateur builder it would be more than you wouldneed and if you are a
professional  maker you would be in directcompetition with me and well....I am
not looking to get a thread going or want any comments, it is justa
statement of what I am up to and where I am going.I feel very excited the
way cane is being accepted by mainstream flyfishermen and I predict good
sales for all us makers, provided we canproduce the goods.A happy and
prosperous new year, T. Ackland

from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Jan  1 18:45:21 2000

Subject: Re: Drip tubes

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Art,   I've been whipping the blank out of the dip tube as fast as I can andI'm
getting pretty good finishes that way.The drip dip tube method I tried worked
fairly well but if I left the sticks in the 6"  tube to dry I found the varnish thin
or non existent on the bottom 6". I haven't figured out why that occurred so
I've gone back to the snatch 'em out method.Best regards,Hank.

from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan  1 19:10:29 2000

(SMTPD32-5.05) id A54E737002C; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:09:34 -0500

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Subject: Re: Drip tubes

Hank,If I recall correctly, I had the same sort of problem with the whip'emout
method. If I left them hangig butt-end down, I got tears where thevarnish
lost enough surface tension (I presumed) to cover the area that itwas
running down; and if I left them tip-end down, the tips got so muchvarnish
deposited on them that they felt almost round.With the withdrawal
contraption, the surface tension seems to leveloutthat problem so that they
seem to dry with a uniform coating. There AREdop-marks on the bottom of
my drying cabinet, but there's no noticeabledifferential in the thickness as
you go down the section. It's probablysomething entirely different than I'm
latching onto, but whatever works,eh? The other strange part is that I don't
stop at the guides and don't getdrips 
from that. It's probably some serendipitous thinning of the varnishover time
and I don't EVER want to change what's in that tank! It's been inthere over a
dozen years now and "keeps on ticking".I went out this year and bought a
section of the next smaller size ofPVCand figured how much I'd need to drop
into the tank to raise the levelenough so that I could dip an 8 fter. THAT took
some ideating -- how toraise the top without filling up the bottom with
something like marbles,but it worked like a charm. Never thought I'd ever
have to do somethinglike that with nesting sections of pipe but nothing
succeeds like dumbluck! If I hadn't gone with the PVC I probably couldn't have
used thatmethod to do it!Art

At 07:43 PM 01/01/2000 EST, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:Art,I've been
whipping the blank out of the dip tube as fast as I can and I'm getting pretty
good finishes that way.The drip dip tube method I tried worked fairly well but
if I left the sticks in the 6"  tube to dry I found the varnish thin or non
existent onthe bottom 6". I haven't figured out why that occurred so I've
gone back to the snatch 'em out method.Best regards,Hank.

*Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have 
been able to make out the numbers.*

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan  2 04:05:08 2000

Subject: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll be getting
itup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year. Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic of aY2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus then triesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediately andsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site. 

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Sun Jan  2 04:27:03 2000

Sun, 2 Jan 2000 10:25:31 GMT

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs

Coming in late in the day as I stayed off over the new year but this
soundslike a 3/8" UNF which is the standard thread size for all the buttons
rodrests etc over here.  In use now and has been all the way back.T-----
Original Message -----

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs

If so, it may be time for some sort of Heli-coil insertion!Art

At 10:12 AM 01/01/2000 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Screw threads
used as fasteners are standardized,  such as NC, NF,METRIC,where a
diameter matches the pitch., e.g. 1/4-20, 3/8-16 etc.Connectingthreads can
be whatever pitch and diameter the designer chooses thatwillbestsuit the
application.A fishing rod extension butt would fall into this category and a
tap anddiecould well have to be special order.

Ed Riddle wrote:

David et. al. contributors to this thread:

I will endeavor to check my paper files tomorrow between games
inhopesofbeing helpful rather than cute: (Still, M.G.'s get more expensive
withage)

The Brits, in addition to providing affordable export (to USA)
sportycars;a.k.a., "cheap", had a myriad of threaded fittings during that
era.British Standard Whitworth (BSW), British Standard Fine
(BSF),BritishStandard Pipe Tapered (BSPT) and British Association Form
(BA).If, for whatever reason I don't get back to you or can't help,
trycontacting:  Metric & Multistandard Components Corp., 198 Saw
MillRiverRoad , Elmsford, N. Y. 10523.A lotta good stuff on "Rodmakers"
today.  Happy New Year!!Ed (in north central North Carolina)-----Original
Message-----From: McFall David 

Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: English Bamboo Rod -
extension handle repairs

I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod.Inorder
to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to gointothe rod
handle.  I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one
on the list can steer me in the correct direction.Thethread o.d. is 0.352"
(approx) and the thread pitch looks like about18tpi.

Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net

Many thanks and Season Greetings

Dave M

*Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have 
been able to make out the numbers.*

from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Sun Jan  2 05:41:42 2000

Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:41:25 GMT

,

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs - WRONG INFO

WHOA!  HOLD IT!The information below is incorrect - this is what comes of
engagingfingersbefore brains! I meant BSF not UNF.

The thread I was thinking of is a 3/8"-20 BSF  55Deg  (British
StandardFine).It's characteristics are as follows:-OD                           
.3750Core(Root)                .3110Pitch                           .0500Depth                        
.0320Radius                        .0069Effective Diameter      .3430T.P.I                           
20These are specification characteristics and are not my
measurementsDoes the rod have a button on the end of the handle and if so
is it the samethread?Sorry for the disinformation earlier.If you cannot get a
tap and Terry's lathes can't help you out (which I wouldhave thought they
could) let me know and I'll send you a 1st and 3rd tap

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs

Coming in late in the day as I stayed off over the new year but thissoundslike
a 3/8" UNF which is the standard thread size for all the buttons rodrests etc
over here.  In use now and has been all the way back.T----- Original Message --
---From: Art Port 

Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 4:45 PMSubject: Re: English Bamboo
Rod - extension handle repairs

If so, it may be time for some sort of Heli-coil insertion!Art

At 10:12 AM 01/01/2000 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Screw threads
used as fasteners are standardized,  such as NC, NF,METRIC,where a
diameter matches the pitch., e.g. 1/4-20, 3/8-16 etc.Connectingthreads can
be whatever pitch and diameter the designer chooses thatwillbestsuit the
application.A fishing rod extension butt would fall into this category and a
tapanddiecould well have to be special order.

Ed Riddle wrote:

David et. al. contributors to this thread:

I will endeavor to check my paper files tomorrow between games
inhopesofbeing helpful rather than cute: (Still, M.G.'s get more
expensivewithage)

The Brits, in addition to providing affordable export (to USA)
sportycars;a.k.a., "cheap", had a myriad of threaded fittings during that
era.British Standard Whitworth (BSW), British Standard Fine
(BSF),BritishStandard Pipe Tapered (BSPT) and British Association Form
(BA).If, for whatever reason I don't get back to you or can't help,
trycontacting:  Metric & Multistandard Components Corp., 198 Saw
MillRiverRoad , Elmsford, N. Y. 10523.A lotta good stuff on "Rodmakers"
today.  Happy New Year!!Ed (in north central North Carolina)-----Original
Message-----From: McFall David 

Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: English Bamboo Rod -
extension handle repairs

I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod.Inorder
to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to gointothe rod
handle.  I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one
on the list can steer me in the correctdirection.Thethread o.d. is 0.352"
(approx) and the thread pitch looks like about18tpi.

Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net

Many thanks and Season Greetings

Dave M

*Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have 
been able to make out the numbers.*

from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sun Jan  2 05:45:03 2000

Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:43:17 +1100

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Tony: This is too tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll be
gettingitup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year. Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic of aY2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan  2 05:58:09 2000

Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:59:20 +0800

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

OK, OK, but look at all the fun you're missing. :-)

Tony

At 10:44 PM 1/2/00 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Tony: This is too
tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll be
gettingitup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year. Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic of aY2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Jan  2 07:32:56 2000

(Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id  for

Subject: Re: Dickerson/Payne

Craig,

I cast a Payne 101 at SRG II, and it is definitely on my to build list.Which
seems to be getting longer, while the done list is in stasis.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

Craig Naldrett wrote:

Anybody built/cast Dickerson 7613 or Payne 101, any comments
onactionetc.??CheersCraig

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan  2 08:27:13 2000

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Tony,has not the y2k "problem" been the biggest hoax of the lot? I has
costBillions tofix bugger all!It  proves just how much  computery  bullshitters
control the world. OrsonWellswould have enjoyed it.

Terry

Tony Young wrote:

OK, OK, but look at all the fun you're missing. :-)

Tony

At 10:44 PM 1/2/00 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Tony: This is too
tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll begetting
itup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year.Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic ofa Y2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan  2 08:55:28 2000

Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:56:21 +0800

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Rodmakers 

On the face of it that seems the only conclusion. Nothing much *seems*
tohave gone wrong but there was a lot done in the preparation. Still,
thatwould imply everybody did what was supposed to be done by way
ofpreventionand that's something that is unlikely to have ever taken place
beforewhichbrings us back to your original comment. I know for certain
wrong dateswill cause all sorts of problems in accounting packages and any
programthat can't decide what to do when unexpected dates are thrown up
due tosloppy or short sighted error trapping in the coding will error and
thatcan cause unexpected problems.George Orwell sure knew his stuff but
considering just how much theecomomys of the world have benefited 
from all this hoo ha I wonder justwhowas hoaxing who though I don't believe it
was as much a hoax assomethingthat grabbed the imagination of millions of
people in a way that's hardlyever been seen before. Catastrophists (is that a
word?) were fearing theworst and iconoclasts were looking forward to it.  
The wash up of it all will be more interesting than the lead up. The
humanbehaviorists will be writing about this for years.

Tony

At 09:30 AM 1/2/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Tony,has not the y2k
"problem" been the biggest hoax of the lot? I has costBillions tofix bugger
all!It  proves just how much  computery  bullshitters control the
world.OrsonWellswould have enjoyed it.

Terry

Tony Young wrote:

OK, OK, but look at all the fun you're missing. :-)

Tony

At 10:44 PM 1/2/00 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Tony: This is too
tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problemsIlookedat
a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problemsandfoundthis
which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't hoaxes and they
may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up toyou todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim
Balderston,withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll
begetting itup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year.Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic ofa Y2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virusimmediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan  2 09:12:30 2000

Subject: Re: beveller

Reed,I do at present work at "other things" and cane is a hobby that has
grownoutof hand .

anenigmatic dream that has kept my waning interest in rodmaking alive.I am
not talking about mass production, but rather a way of producingconsistently
good rods that are "engineered" rather than "crafted"and withtheease and
reliability that machinery offers.I would never have given up my day job to
wield a plane, that would havebeensuicide, but with mechanized equipment the
opportunity is perhaps there.I just intend to work hard building rods spare
time and see where it getsme. Ihave not built a rod in 2 years so I am not
sure if my offerings will beaccepted, especially now there are so many guys
out there makingshavings!Regards, Terry

reed curry wrote:

Terry,Congratulations and may you continue as you are going. It will
bewonderful to know that there is someone out there producing cane rodsat
aprofit.I'm finally working on a beveler and hope to have all my parts
shortly.I'll be using saws rather than a mill. But, at no time do I ever hope,
orwish, to make a living 
from cane. This is fun... I can "work" at otherthings.Best regards,Reed

TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:

After promising myself never to hand plane another rod, it has takenme2
years to get a beveller up and running that really works for me. Thatis the
ability to produce 2 rods 
from 1 culm.I had seen the Dickerson beveller and it did not look very
promising asit was designed and I decided to build something better. I built
severalprototypes and wasted a lot of cane, which is a problem with
bevellers,they waste cane.I concentrated on building a machine that would
cut a complete tipsection to the smallest size i.e.. .032, I would then at least
have theconfidence that the last 6ins of strip being tapered will
notdisintegrate on the last cut!After several attempts with different cutter
geometries and clampingarrangements I finally produced a 4ft strip of .032 
from flat to apex.I stuck the strip in a tube and mailed it off to Uncle
George. It was alittle bit of a wind up because I knew he was struggling in real
termsand he was doing with his mouth what I had wanted to do with
product.Itwas fun, he called me a couple of times but I was "out".A week
later I adjusted my machine and produced a second 4ft strip,thistime of .025 
from apex to flat which I sent to Len Codella becausebeing

from Leonard and T&T, he knows the business and he wants some
morerods.He put an indicator over the length of the strip and found a
deviationof only .0005 over just one node!Over the last couple of weeks I
have machined up 6 blanks (108)finishedto size strips that are far more
accurate than I could ever have handplaned them and I had  zero percent
scrap.I am back in business and after Uncle George's ass.Do not ask me for
details of my machine, it has cost me a lot of moneyand if you are just an
amateur builder it would be more than you wouldneed and if you are a
professional  maker you would be in directcompetition with me and well....I am
not looking to get a thread going or want any comments, it is justa
statement of what I am up to and where I am going.I feel very excited the
way cane is being accepted by mainstream flyfishermen and I predict good
sales for all us makers, provided we canproduce the goods.A happy and
prosperous new year, T. Ackland

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan  2 09:15:52 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 2 Jan 2000 09:06:54 -0600

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

I have a friend, who is involved with high security problems in Wa.,D.C.,ala
CIA, etc.. His advice is this. 1.) "Never open an attachment with "exe"behind
it"; 2.) Use MS "Update" in your start menu to fix any virusproblems. It took
less than 15 minutes of download time, 3 differenttimes,and their scan said I
was totally compliant. So far, this has proven to betrue.

After being sent the "Happy 99" virus earlier this year, unknowingly by areal
computer whiz, I followed his instructions, and have never
hadanotherproblem ! The "Happy 99" virus was sent as an "exe" file !

I know so little about how to run these machines, being totally selftaught,I
must depend on such advice.

Right now, I'm trying to find someone who can tell me why a couple on ourlist
can't read all of my messages, until they hit "Reply", and then theycan read
all of the message, by scrolling down ! Weird !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: y2k.WARNING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll be
gettingitup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year. Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic of aY2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare, As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan  2 09:31:50 2000

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Tony,on the first I went down in the basement and switched on the  old 286
oris it386. I use it regularly, and up she went without a problem. I thought of
changingthe date on the boot up to say 1972 on the (eeprom is it?) I never
did.We have been watching this American "y2k expert"  on tv for the last
2yearsspreading doom and gloom. He was on again last night answering
questionsabout"what went wrong". The hilarious part was that they still
introduced himas "y2kexpert"Bullshit is as American as apple pie, and I love
both, Terry

Tony Young wrote:

On the face of it that seems the only conclusion. Nothing much
*seems*tohave gone wrong but there was a lot done in the preparation. Still,
thatwould imply everybody did what was supposed to be done by way
ofpreventionand that's something that is unlikely to have ever taken place
beforewhichbrings us back to your original comment. I know for certain
wrong dateswill cause all sorts of problems in accounting packages and any
programthat can't decide what to do when unexpected dates are thrown up
due tosloppy or short sighted error trapping in the coding will error and
thatcan cause unexpected problems.George Orwell sure knew his stuff but
considering just how much theecomomys of the world have benefited 
from all this hoo ha I wonder justwhowas hoaxing who though I don't believe it
was as much a hoax assomethingthat grabbed the imagination of millions of
people in a way that's hardlyever been seen before. Catastrophists (is that a
word?) were fearing theworst and iconoclasts were looking forward to it.The
wash up of it all will be more interesting than the lead up.
Thehumanbehaviorists will be writing about this for years.

Tony

At 09:30 AM 1/2/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Tony,has not the y2k
"problem" been the biggest hoax of the lot? I has costBillions tofix bugger
all!It  proves just how much  computery  bullshitters control the
world.OrsonWellswould have enjoyed it.

Terry

Tony Young wrote:

OK, OK, but look at all the fun you're missing. :-)

Tony

At 10:44 PM 1/2/00 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Tony: This is too
tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems forproblems Ilookedat
a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problemsandfoundthis
which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't hoaxes and they
may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up toyou todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim
Balderston,withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll
begetting itup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing
asMicrosoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year.Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomaticof a Y2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virusimmediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jan  2 09:45:06 2000

(SMTPD32-5.05) id A3C65F1B0104; Sun, 02 Jan 2000 10:50:30 -0500

Subject: Re: beveller

Terry,I think I understand your approach and wholeheartedly agree with
thespirit ofit. For example, the difference between Montague, F.E. Thomas,
and Paynewaslargely a matter of "acceptable" quality.-- Montague had many
grades and little up-front QC. Seemingly anypiece ofbamboo was used and the
grades were sorted out after glue-up. Little wasthrownaway. Tapers were
chosen to accomodate the poorest quality cane and toallow powersanding,
hence the extra weight of most Montagues.-- Thomas had three basic grades
(excluding Browntone and Mahogany,which weremodels), and didn't put his
name on the lowest grade. He used good qualitycontrolupfront, probably
threw away a lot of cane, and sorted by grade after theglue-up.-- Payne had
one grade. Good QC upfront saved him time later, but a lotofglued blanks,
representing labour hours, probably fed the furnace.

BUT all three makers used the same basic production machines.
Thedifference isin what rods they wanted to put their name on.Good luck and
keep us advised of developments.Best regards,Reed

TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:

Reed,I do at present work at "other things" and cane is a hobby that has
grownoutof hand .

been anenigmatic dream that has kept my waning interest in rodmaking
alive.I am not talking about mass production, but rather a way of
producingconsistently good rods that are "engineered" rather than
"crafted"andwith theease and reliability that machinery offers.I would never
have given up my day job to wield a plane, that would havebeensuicide, but
with mechanized equipment the opportunity is perhaps there.I just intend to
work hard building rods spare time and see where it getsme. Ihave not built a
rod in 2 years so I am not sure if my offerings will beaccepted, especially
now there are so many guys out there makingshavings!Regards, Terry

reed curry wrote:

Terry,Congratulations and may you continue as you are going. It will
bewonderful to know that there is someone out there producing cane rodsat
aprofit.I'm finally working on a beveler and hope to have all my
partsshortly.I'll be using saws rather than a mill. But, at no time do I ever
hope, orwish, to make a living 
from cane. This is fun... I can "work" at otherthings.Best regards,Reed

TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:

After promising myself never to hand plane another rod, it has takenme2
years to get a beveller up and running that really works for me.Thatis the
ability to produce 2 rods 
from 1 culm.I had seen the Dickerson beveller and it did not look very
promising asit was designed and I decided to build something better. I
builtseveralprototypes and wasted a lot of cane, which is a problem
withbevellers,they waste cane.I concentrated on building a machine that
would cut a complete tipsection to the smallest size i.e.. .032, I would then
at least have theconfidence that the last 6ins of strip being tapered will
notdisintegrate on the last cut!After several attempts with different cutter
geometries andclampingarrangements I finally produced a 4ft strip of .032 
from flat to apex.I stuck the strip in a tube and mailed it off to Uncle
George. It was alittle bit of a wind up because I knew he was struggling in real
termsand he was doing with his mouth what I had wanted to do withproduct.
Itwas fun, he called me a couple of times but I was "out".A week later I
adjusted my machine and produced a second 4ft strip,thistime of .025 
from apex to flat which I sent to Len Codella becausebeing

from Leonard and T&T, he knows the business and he wants somemore
rods.He put an indicator over the length of the strip and found a deviationof
only .0005 over just one node!Over the last couple of weeks I have machined
up 6 blanks (108)finishedto size strips that are far more accurate than I
could ever have handplaned them and I had  zero percent scrap.I am back in
business and after Uncle George's ass.Do not ask me for details of my
machine, it has cost me a lot ofmoneyand if you are just an amateur builder
it would be more than youwouldneed and if you are a professional  maker you
would be in directcompetition with me and well....I am not looking to get a
thread going or want any comments, it isjusta statement of what I am up to
and where I am going.I feel very excited the way cane is being accepted by
mainstream flyfishermen and I predict good sales for all us makers, provided
we canproduce the goods.A happy and prosperous new year, T. Ackland

from sshorb@ipa.net Sun Jan  2 10:17:51 2000

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

It could be called "The Chicken Little Syndrome". It's been used foryears by
just about all special interest groups with varying degrees ofsuccess. The
media usually fills the roll of Chicken Little althoughgovernments do also.
These two groups are somewhat different in thatthey are both special
interest and chicken littles.Have a happy and prosperous new year.Skip

from tonkin@xtn.net Sun Jan  2 10:18:56 2000

Subject: Pratt & Lambert Spar Varnish

Can anyone tell me where to find Pratt & Lambert R10 spar varnish in
theEastern US?

from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Jan  2 10:57:22 2000

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

My wife says we have a y2k glitch here. Says she has not been able to getme
toWORK since New Years Eve.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfound

from grandriverangler@sprint.ca Sun Jan  2 12:18:42 2000

Subject: Man of War Varnish

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5523.7EAC4A60"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5523.7EAC4A60

Thanks in advance.

Mark

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5523.7EAC4A60

Can anyone help me locate asource =

Thanks in advance.

Mark

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5523.7EAC4A60--

from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jan  2 13:14:47 2000

Subject: Re: Man of War Varnish

In a message dated 01/02/2000 1:27:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grandriverangler@sprint.ca writes:

Mark,I purchase Man-o-War varnish at the True ValueHardware store.

Dave L

from martinjensen@home.com Sun Jan  2 13:26:02 2000

(InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP

Sun, 2 Jan 2000 11:25:56 -0800

Subject: RE: Pratt & Lambert Spar Varnish

thenearest retail dealer, please contact Pratt & Lambert directly at1-800-
BUY-PRATT (=1-800-289-7728) or FAX them at 1-800-573-2468.

(I got this off the Internet)Martin Jensen

-----Original Message-----

Subject:        Pratt & Lambert Spar Varnish

Can anyone tell me where to find Pratt & Lambert R10 spar varnish in
theEastern US?

from can@telusplanet.net Sun Jan  2 16:38:48 2000

telusplanet.net") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with ESMTP

Subject: Dickerson/Payne Responses

Thanks to those who provided comments on these two rods.CheersCraig

from tonkin@xtn.net Sun Jan  2 18:58:54 2000

forged))

Subject: Thomas & Thomas

Does anyone know what kind of finish did T & T use on their mid 80'srods?

from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Jan  2 23:04:31 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper

I am selling a FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod on consignment which is
a9'3pc rod and is the one Marty Keane speaks so highly about. Pgs 93-95
inhisbook. Does someone on the list already have the taper of this rod? I
didn'tfind it in the RM Taper Archives. If someone has it already please
speakup,otherwise I'll measure it and post it before it goes to it's new home.
Ifyou want to see pics of it...http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-
cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=229163808

I haven't cast this rod yet, but Marty told me it uses a WF7 or WF8 line.Even
though he wrote so enthusiastically about it in 1976, he sounded justas
enthusiastically  about it today, so it must be a good taper...

HNY!

Darrell

from georgewb@pacbell.net Sun Jan  2 23:31:02 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Sean,

What are you getting at?  Has the Apple market gotten so small that
itisn'teven worththe trouble to write viruses for anymore?  ;^)

George

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Tony: This is too tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll be
gettingitup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year. Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic of aY2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:  
www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jan  3 00:00:06 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: RE: Thomas & Thomas

I only know that they use spar varnish and a dip finish currently.

Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Thomas & Thomas

Does anyone know what kind of finish did T & T use on their mid 80'srods?

from martinjensen@home.com Mon Jan  3 00:03:06 2000

(InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP

;Sun, 2 Jan 2000 22:02:55 -0800

Subject: RE: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

It never was. Virus writers like to cover 90% of the market not 10.
Nowwiththe Word and Excel viruses though, a Mac is susceptibleMartin Jensen

-----Original Message-----

Subject:        Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITHRODMAKING

Sean,

What are you getting at?  Has the Apple market gotten so small that
itisn'teven worththe trouble to write viruses for anymore?  ;^)

George

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Tony: This is too tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll be
gettingitup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year. Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic of aY2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from chris@artistree.com Mon Jan  3 03:04:12 2000

[205.134.245.37] (may beforged))

Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Video

In case anyone is interested I viewed a video over the holiday's thatcontained
an interview with rodmaker Bob Milward and scenes 
from thelast Corbett Lake gathering. Neat stuff. Beware it also contains
aninterview with the (seemingly less than enthusiastic) CEO of Sage. 

Video is "Casting Shadows: Fly Fishing in British Columbia" I postedcontact
info at http://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/  click on the"Videos"
link.

Best Regards,

Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com

from seanmcs@ar.com.au Mon Jan  3 03:50:48 2000

Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:48:24 +1100

Subject: Re: y2k.WARNING  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

George: two years ago - right... Have you seen the Apple stock pricerecently!
Of course history is so strange - Microsoft owns heaps ofApple. Not aware
that any of them are into cane however.... Anyway mostgrateful that my
setup survived and generally, so far, around the worldit seems fine. Sean

irish-george wrote:

Sean,

What are you getting at?  Has the Apple market gotten so small that
itisn'teven worththe trouble to write viruses for anymore?  ;^)

George

-----Original Message-----From: Sean McSharry 

Cc: Rodmakers Date: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:49 AMSubject: Re:
y2k.WARNING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RODMAKING

Tony: This is too tempting. Try an Apple-Mac! Happy New Year.  Sean

Tony Young wrote:

While I was at work this morning checking the systems for problems
Ilookedat a Y2K site just to see if *ANY BODY AT ALL* reported problems
andfoundthis which may be of interest to people on the list.These aren't
hoaxes and they may well appear sooner or later.

The first one is definitely a problem, the second, well it's up to you todecide
for yourself.

Tony

"It's a very high-profile time for virus writers," Jim Balderston,
withMcAfee.com told the Associated Press "On New Year's they'll be
gettingitup on a very big billboard."

Two viruses activate immediately and spread by posing as
Microsoftprogramsthat are suppose to fix Y2K problems or count down to
the new year.Thevirus could make computers display an error message
symptomatic of aY2Kproblem. After users fix the clock system and reboot,
the virus thentriesto erase data.

Another virus infects Windows computers by using Outlook. An e-
mailmessagesays "Here's some pictures for you!" and comes with an
attachment.Runningthe attachment, labeled pics4you.exe, activates the
virus immediatelyandsets Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to a porn
site.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan  3 06:53:26 2000

2000 04:53:16 PST

Subject: Re: Dickerson/Payne

apples and oranges

--- Craig Naldrett  wrote:Anybody built/cast Dickerson 7613 or Payne 101,
anycomments on actionetc.??CheersCraig

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan  3 08:45:46 2000

Subject: Re: Man of War Varnish/P&L

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

List,I don't know if I am just in the right place here in So. Bend but we
haveP&L and Man Of war here.  Ifd you can't find it in your neck of the woods
let me know as I have mailed some varnishes to other guys who cou;ldn't
findwhat they were looking for.Bret

from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Jan  3 10:19:24 2000

2000 08:19:20 PST

Subject: Re: Silk

It looks like Kreinik is not the answer to this.  Ijust talked to them and they
don't sell any fine silkexcept in black and white.

If someone has the answer, I am in exactly the samesituation as Bob.

The spool says "KNK" all around the edges of the spooland "100" and "Japan"
on a foil label. This silk holdsit's color more evenly than anything else I
havetried.

Any help would be appreciated.

--- Tony Spezio  wrote:Bob,I believe this is Kreinik in Harpersburg WV.
Checkyour craft store. I use their materials inFlytying. Merry
Christmas.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Bob Nunley wrote:

Everyone ('cept Harry... he's already seenthis!)    Need help identifiying this
silk Ihave.  It is on a plastic spool, the label (redand gold) on one end says
"Silk Sewing Thread",in small letters near the center of the label,it says
"KNK" then "100" below that.  I assumethat means 100 yds or 100 meters. 
Anyways, onthe other end it KNK around the perimeter of awhite label with
the number 202 stamped onin.    Years ago I bought several spools of this

from someone, and I can't remember who!  It isreally fine diameter and i
would like to havesome more, in Red, Green and White.    Anyonerecognize
this, or use it, or know who carriesit? HELP!!!! Bob

R.L. "Bob"  Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly
Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/canean/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Mon Jan  3 10:44:00 2000

Subject: KNK

Bob & All

I get my KNK silk thread 
from YLI Corporation, 482 North Freedom BLVD., Provo, Utah 84601. I
bought a good supply a few years ago basicallybecause they don't sell one
spool just lots at once. Don't have a phone number at hand.Hope all are
having a good new year so far, Chuck

from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jan  3 11:00:26 2000

Subject: Re: KNK

Just sent a message to a friend in Provo to look up the number. Will post
itassoon as I get it.Tony     FlyTyr@southshore.com

CAIrvinerods@aol.com wrote:

Bob & All

I get my KNK silk thread 
from YLI Corporation, 482 North Freedom BLVD.,Provo, Utah 84601. I bought
a good supply a few years ago basicallybecausethey don't sell one spool just
lots at once. Don't have a phone number athand.Hope all are having a good
new year so far, Chuck

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan  3 11:06:02 2000

2000 09:05:59 PST

Subject: Re: KNK

http://www.woolworks.org/stores/ut.html

tony,  maybe this is it?  timothy

--- Tony Spezio  wrote:Just sent a message to a friend in Provo to look upthe
number. Will post it assoon as I get it.Tony     FlyTyr@southshore.com

CAIrvinerods@aol.com wrote:

Bob & All

I get my KNK silk thread 
from YLI Corporation, 482North Freedom BLVD.,Provo, Utah 84601. I bought
a good supply a fewyears ago basically becausethey don't sell one spool just
lots at once. Don'thave a phone number athand.Hope all are having a good
new year so far, Chuck

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jan  3 11:35:35 2000

Subject: Re: Silk

Kreinik has a web page.  I have not looked too deeply, but if you havenot seen
it here is the URL        http://www.kreinik.com/

also see     http://threadexpress.com

Ralph

from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Jan  3 12:16:19 2000

Subject: YLI Address

As of last summer, the address I have for YLI is:

161 West Main StRock Hill, SC  29730PH: (800) 296-8139FX:  (803)985-
3106ylicorp@rhtc.net

--Rich

from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Jan  3 12:53:45 2000

2000 10:53:43 PST

Subject: KNK, YLI and Kreinik

Thanks for all of the repsonses.

I have spools of YLI, Tire, Pearsalls, Gudebrod andKinkame and they all seem
to be differnt thread thanthe one spool I have labelled KNK.

The sizes of YLI and the KNK I have appear to be

much.  It has yielded incredibly even color in testswith various finishes (that
is not to say that it doesnot change color, just does it very evenly -
noblotching).

I'll call YLI and quiz them.  When I talked to them afew years ago they were on
the crabby side - I thinkthat they want to stick to wholesale.

Thanks
again.__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Jan  3 13:04:11 2000

2000 11:04:08 PST

Subject: Just talked to YLI about KNK silk

Thanks for the number for YLI.

The person I talked to said that KNK must be adifferent thread as she was
unfamiliar with it.  Thisperson joined the company few years back when
theymoved 
from Utah to South Carolina (new ownership), sosomeone with more history
there may give a differentanswer.

This lady was very friendly and said that with a bizlicense, you can make
minimum orders of $80 or more
directly.__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Jan  3 13:18:03 2000

Subject: Re: KNK, YLI and Kreinik

The best place to get YLI 
from that I've found is Pinetree Quiltworks:

http://www.quiltworks.com/store/

They have all the YLI colors in Size 100 (about 3/0) but do not carry the Size
50 YLI.  Instead, they have a brand called Tire in the Size 50, which I've found
to be great stuff, too.  (The Brick Red is a great color for cane rods.)  They
are definitely not crabby! -- great folks to deal with.  Their prices are great,
lower than if you ordered retail 
from YLI or Angler''s Workshop.  (No commercial interest on my part, I've
just had great experiences with them.)  You might ask YLI to send you one of
their color brochures so you could see (roughly) what the colors look like.

--Rich

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan  3 13:41:54 2000

Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:41:48 -0800

Subject: Re: KNK, YLI and Kreinik

Rich,I see several glazed cotton threads listed on this site.  Would
youhappento know which of the glazed cottons they list might be suitable for
use inaGarrison style binder?

Harry

RMargiotta@aol.com wrote:

The best place to get YLI 
from that I've found is Pinetree Quiltworks:

http://www.quiltworks.com/store/

They have all the YLI colors in Size 100 (about 3/0) but do not carry theSize
50 YLI.  Instead, they have a brand called Tire in the Size 50, whichI've found
to be great stuff, too.  (The Brick Red is a great color for canerods.)  They
are definitely not crabby! -- great folks to deal with.  Theirprices are great,
lower than if you ordered retail 
from YLI or Angler''sWorkshop.  (No commercial interest on my part, I've just
had greatexperiences with them.)  You might ask YLI to send you one of their
colorbrochures so you could see (roughly) what the colors look like.

--Rich

from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jan  3 13:42:25 2000

Subject: Re: KNK, YLI and Kreinik

I tried that site before. Comes back as "Object Removed" "Click here"
doesnotwork for me. Does anyone have the new URL.Thanks,Tony   
FlyTyr@southshore.com

RMargiotta@aol.com wrote:

The best place to get YLI 
from that I've found is Pinetree Quiltworks:

http://www.quiltworks.com/store/

They have all the YLI colors in Size 100 (about 3/0) but do not carry theSize
50 YLI.  Instead, they have a brand called Tire in the Size 50, whichI've found
to be great stuff, too.  (The Brick Red is a great color for canerods.)  They
are definitely not crabby! -- great folks to deal with.  Theirprices are great,
lower than if you ordered retail 
from YLI or Angler''sWorkshop.  (No commercial interest on my part, I've just
had greatexperiences with them.)  You might ask YLI to send you one of their
colorbrochures so you could see (roughly) what the colors look like.

--Rich

from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Jan  3 14:28:11 2000

Subject: Re: KNK, YLI and Kreinik

The original address I sent works fine for me.  But you might try:

http://www.quiltworks.com/store/default.asp?

Looks similar to the original, so I don't know how it will work for you.

--Rich

from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Jan  3 14:47:15 2000

Subject:  Remove varnish 
from cork

I am considering using "3M's 'Safest Stripper" to remove that
curedvarnishthat's beyond the windcheck and onto the cork grip; you've seen
'em,"dippedtoo deep".  Haven't done this before.  Any pitfalls?Suggestions
for a better way?TIA.Ed

from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Jan  3 18:07:01 2000

Subject: Re: Remove varnish 
from cork

Ed: Did you try to sand it off with fine grit or steel wool?

Joe

from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jan  3 18:16:18 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Remove varnish 
from cork

EdI have never had this happen to me, in fact you are probably the
onlyperson who ever had this misfortune,  but  I have found that wiping
withmineral spirits before the varnish  has time to dry usually does thejob.

Ralph

from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan  3 18:26:40 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: Re: Remove varnish 
from cork

Nope, Ed's not the only one. Add me to the oops list. And Joe P., you don't tell
them anything else I did to that first rod, or I will get ya!Bob Maulucci

At 05:08 PM 1/3/00 -0700, you wrote:EdI have never had this happen to me,
in fact you are probably the onlyperson who ever had this misfortune,  but  I
have found that wiping withmineral spirits before the varnish  has time to
dry usually does thejob.

Ralph

Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Jan  3 18:41:54 2000

Subject: Fw: Remove varnish 
from cork

Thanks to all for the helpful advice.I'm referring to 2 rods that are mine. 
One is a South Bend 7.5' 2/2 #290that has seen little or no use and the
other is a refinished, by someoneelse before my purchase, 8.5' 3/2 Heddon
#17 Black Beauty.I've yet to build a rod, but monitoring this List is giving me
the itch.Regards,Ed-----Original Message-----

Subject: Remove varnish 
from cork

I am considering using "3M's 'Safest Stripper" to remove that
curedvarnishthat's beyond the windcheck and onto the cork grip; you've seen
'em,"dippedtoo deep".  Haven't done this before.  Any pitfalls?Suggestions
for a better way?TIA.Ed

from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jan  3 18:50:28 2000

Subject: Re: Fw: Remove varnish 
from cork

See Ed  I knew you had never done that nefarious deed.

Ralph  Try sanding with very fine paper

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan  3 18:55:28 2000

Subject: Paul Young "Perfectionist"

Iam looking for info on the Paul Young "Perfectionist" model. I believeit is a
7'6" for a 4 wt line. In particular I want: 1) the taper,original prefered; not
doctored versions2)original guide spacing

3)type and size offerrules4)stress curve5)thread wrap colors
/particulars6)info about the gripand reel seats (original )7)Any and all
pertanantinfo about this rod.It's a long list , but I'm looking for DETAILS!! If
anyone owns or hashad the pleasure of casting one of these let me know
your thoughts onthe rod , If you feel the need to ramble about it you can
even send yourresponse directly to me.Thanks in advance!!Shawn Pineo, New
Scotland Flyrods

nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca

from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Jan  3 19:10:24 2000

Subject: Re: Fw: Remove varnish 
from cork

Thanks Ralph, I had to clarify,....looks like you the only one, Bob.Ed-----
Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Fw: Remove varnish 
from cork

See Ed  I knew you had never done that nefarious deed.

Ralph  Try sanding with very fine paper

from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan  3 19:29:54 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: Re: Fw: Remove varnish 
from cork

Damn! Bob the Bamboo Butcher of Buffalo strikes again!

At 08:07 PM 1/3/00 -0500, you wrote:Thanks Ralph, I had to clarify,....looks
like you the only one, Bob.Ed-----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon 

Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 7:56
PMSubject: Re: Fw: Remove varnish 
from cork

See Ed  I knew you had never done that nefarious deed.

Ralph  Try sanding with very fine paper

Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan  3 20:07:30 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Video

Hi Chris,Did anyone get a price on that Episode 3 video?Their order online
system was all screwy. And once again, thanks for the great resource you
provide with the site.Bob M.

At 01:03 AM 1/3/00 -0800, you wrote:In case anyone is interested I viewed
a video over the holiday's thatcontained an interview with rodmaker Bob
Milward and scenes 
from thelast Corbett Lake gathering. Neat stuff. Beware it also contains
aninterview with the (seemingly less than enthusiastic) CEO of Sage.

Video is "Casting Shadows: Fly Fishing in British Columbia" I postedcontact
info at http://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/  click on the"Videos"
link.

Best Regards,

Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com

Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from channer@outerbounds.net Mon Jan  3 20:09:49 2000

taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP id;Mon, 3 Jan 2000
19:09:28 -0700

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Subject: Re: KNK, YLI and Kreinik

At 03:26 PM 01/03/2000 EST, RMargiotta@aol.com wrote:The original
address I sent works fine for me.  But you might try:

http://www.quiltworks.com/store/default.asp?

Looks similar to the original, so I don't know how it will work for you.

--Rich

All;the correct url for pinetree quiltworks is pnietreequiltworks.com, I knowit
works because i just ordered some 
from them yesterday. Great thread,great sevice and great prices. I don't
know where to get KNK now, severalyears ago that's what Angler's Workshop
sold, but it isn't the same now.John

from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Jan  3 20:35:03 2000

with ESMTP id 

Subject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago and
uponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not original. The
thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the ferrulesfit nicely,
but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas wondering what
the name of the color green is that was used for thewraps on this thing so I
can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the
cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and
PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back into
shape?  Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Jan  3 20:50:28 2000

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----

Subject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago and
uponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not original. The
thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the ferrulesfit nicely,
but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas wondering what
the name of the color green is that was used for thewraps on this thing so I
can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the
cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and
PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back into
shape?  Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from chris@artistree.com Mon Jan  3 20:55:08 2000

[205.134.245.51] (may beforged))

Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Video

I believe it's only available as a two volume set. Volume one has thebamboo
stories. Sorry, I don't know what the price is. You might try thetoll free
number. I see it's going to be rebroadcast sometime this yearand I heard the
lodge(s) that sponsored it might be selling it at theirbooths for the upcoming
spring sportsman shows. 

It's not a bad series on past & present fly fishing in B.C. I noticedthat all the
rod builders at Corbett Lake were just smiling away. Thisis then followed by a
story on graphite rods at Sage. I didn't see anysmiling faces in that story.

Best Regards,Chris Wohlford

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Chris,Did anyone get a price on that Episode 3 video?Their order online
systemwas all screwy. And once again, thanks for the great resource
youprovidewith the site.Bob M.

from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan  3 20:55:20 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:46:21 -0600

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

I'd use some other glue that is sandable, which the white glues are not, inthis
instance. I've just re-glued some separated strips with Elmer'sPro-Bond poly
urethane, and so far it is an exceptional product. It's aclear, honey color, and
scrapes nicely after removing the binding twine.

One thing I forgot to mention, is that both the Safest Strip, and
Citristripclean cork grips nicely. Just brush on a coat, wait 10 minutes, and
startwiping it off. With about 3 paper towels, and continuous wiping, the
gripwill just get cleaner the more you wipe/scrub. A light sanding a day
ortwolater, and it's like new again !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago and
uponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not original.The
thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the ferrulesfit nicely,
but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas wondering what
the name of the color green is that was used for thewraps on this thing so I
can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the
cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and
PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back into
shape?  Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Jan  3 21:05:28 2000

with ESMTP id ;Tue, 4 Jan 2000 03:04:55 +0000

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago and
uponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not original.The
thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the ferrulesfit nicely,
but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas wondering what
the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on this thing so I
can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the
cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and
PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back into
shape?  Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Jan  3 21:09:58 2000

with ESMTP id ;Tue, 4 Jan 2000 03:09:25 +0000

"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

GMA,

I didn't think of the cork cleaning option.  I'll also try thatpolyurethane glue.  I
was also thinking as I typed about whether or notthere was a better glue for
that since PVA shrinks as it dries.  

Good advice!  

Thanks,

DJH

nobler wrote:

I'd use some other glue that is sandable, which the white glues are not,inthis
instance. I've just re-glued some separated strips with Elmer'sPro-Bond poly
urethane, and so far it is an exceptional product. It's aclear, honey color, and
scrapes nicely after removing the binding twine.

One thing I forgot to mention, is that both the Safest Strip,
andCitristripclean cork grips nicely. Just brush on a coat, wait 10 minutes,
and startwiping it off. With about 3 paper towels, and continuous wiping, the
gripwill just get cleaner the more you wipe/scrub. A light sanding a day
ortwolater, and it's like new again !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Dennis Haftel" 

Sent: Friday, January 04, 1980 11:36 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago and
uponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not original.The
thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the ferrulesfit nicely,
but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas wondering what
the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on this thing so I
can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the
cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and
PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back into
shape?  Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from channer@outerbounds.net Mon Jan  3 21:11:00 2000

taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Mon, 3 Jan
2000 20:10:37 -0700

Subject: Re: KNK, YLI and Kreinik

Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:09:32 -0700

Sorry everyone, misinformation, I just went to the site, I have itbookmarked,
here it ishttp://www.quiltworks.com/store/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=4000John

from morten@flash.net Mon Jan  3 21:11:53 2000

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Dennis,Cork dust and glue will never look like cork. I have had good
resultsshaping a small piece of cork with a razor blade to fill in the
chippedarea. Make it slightly larger than the void in the handle and match
thedirection of grain and texture to the handle. Add glue and press the
newpiece into the void. Hold in place with tape till the glue has cured.Slice off
excess and smooth with sandpaper.Morten Lovstad

-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353
5725http://www.flash.net/~morten

from channer@outerbounds.net Mon Jan  3 21:20:22 2000

taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Mon, 3 Jan
2000 20:19:57 -0700

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

At 10:11 PM 01/04/2000 -0800, Dennis Haftel wrote:GMA,

I didn't think of the cork cleaning option.  I'll also try thatpolyurethane glue.  I
was also thinking as I typed about whether or notthere was a better glue for
that since PVA shrinks as it dries.  

Good advice!  

Thanks,

DJHDennis;Mixing cork dust and glue doesn't work very well unless you use
somethingto lighten it, every glue I have tried winds up making a very dark
patch. Ihave mixed cork dust, water and Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Filler
withsomesuccess, but i think that if the chip was of any size I would just cut
thering off and replace it, no biggie if you are going to refinsih the rodanyway
and only a minor hassle if you are not, just ream the hole to theappropriate
size, then cut the ring in half and glue to the rod then shapeto match.John

from penr0295@bendnet.com Mon Jan  3 21:34:56 2000

TAA00192

Subject: Hardy Palakona 9ft. #E20781

A fellow member of The Central Oregon Fly Fishers group here in Bend
wasasking me if I knew anything about the 3pc. 9ft. Hardy Palakona (2 tips)
heinherited 
from his grandfather (he himself is in his late fifties or early60's, so I expect
the rod could be 
from the early 1900's).  He said that herod had a serial number of E20781
on the butt.  Any information about the

would be appreciated.Thomas Penrose

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan  3 21:46:47 2000

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Dennis,This is strange, isn't it.  I'm looking at a SB 359 right now.  Thewraps
are definitely blue, tipped gold.  So we've got Sinclair's b/w jasper,amedium
green, and my blue tipped gold.  Any other combo's out there?

Harry

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Subject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not
original.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the
ferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas
wondering what the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on
this thing so I can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the
front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up
with cork dust and PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting
this thing back into shape? Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just
got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan  3 21:51:11 2000

Mon, 3 Jan 2000 19:51:06 -0800

Subject: Re: Hardy Palakona 9ft. #E20781

Thomas,Good to see your name on the list again.

I seem to remember several times in the past, listers have
mentionedthatHardy is very good about giving information on their old rods. 
You mighttrycontacting Hardy directly.  I know they have a website, but I
don't have theurl.  Someone else on this list will probably come up with it.

Harry BoydThomas Penrose wrote:

A fellow member of The Central Oregon Fly Fishers group here in
Bendwasasking me if I knew anything about the 3pc. 9ft. Hardy Palakona (2
tips)heinherited 
from his grandfather (he himself is in his late fifties or early60's, so I expect
the rod could be 
from the early 1900's).  He said that herod had a serial number of E20781
on the butt.  Any information abouttherod (date, line size, approximate value
[assuming condition was

would be appreciated.Thomas Penrose

from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan  3 21:51:26 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:42:29 -0600

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

I tend to agree. Cork is very compressible, and a good glue joint will
lastpretty well, and another ring or two is really no big deal.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

At 10:11 PM 01/04/2000 -0800, Dennis Haftel wrote:GMA,

I didn't think of the cork cleaning option.  I'll also try thatpolyurethane glue.  I
was also thinking as I typed about whether or notthere was a better glue for
that since PVA shrinks as it dries.

Good advice!

Thanks,

DJHDennis;Mixing cork dust and glue doesn't work very well unless you
usesomethingto lighten it, every glue I have tried winds up making a very
dark patch.Ihave mixed cork dust, water and Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Filler
withsomesuccess, but i think that if the chip was of any size I would just cut
thering off and replace it, no biggie if you are going to refinsih the rodanyway
and only a minor hassle if you are not, just ream the hole to theappropriate
size, then cut the ring in half and glue to the rod then shapeto match.John

from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Jan  3 21:58:55 2000

Subject: Re: Remove varnish 
from cork

Bob,I have to admit to having a hand in the varnished cork incident.

Joe

from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Jan  3 22:01:31 2000

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Harry:Sure do.  After sending the Sinclair info, I went and drug my 359 out
andbest I can tell, those old dried out threads look Tan.Ed-----Original
Message-----

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Dennis,This is strange, isn't it.  I'm looking at a SB 359 right now.  Thewraps
are definitely blue, tipped gold.  So we've got Sinclair's b/wjasper, amedium
green, and my blue tipped gold.  Any other combo's out there?

Harry

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not
original.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the
ferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas
wondering what the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on
this thing so I can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the
front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up
with cork dust and PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting
this thing back into shape?Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just
got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan  3 22:09:32 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:00:37 -0600

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

I just stripped two, and I can't be sure, as I think they were re-wraps. Onewas
orange, with jasper tipping, and the other just orange.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Dennis,This is strange, isn't it.  I'm looking at a SB 359 right now.Thewraps
are definitely blue, tipped gold.  So we've got Sinclair's b/wjasper, amedium
green, and my blue tipped gold.  Any other combo's out there?

Harry

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is
notoriginal.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and
theferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by side. 
Iwas wondering what the name of the color green is that was
usedforthewraps on this thing so I can restore it to its factory spec. 
There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I
wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and PVA glue. 
Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back
intoshape?Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan  3 22:13:42 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:11:30 -0600

"Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Hardy Palakona 9ft. #E20781

Thomas,If I'm reading my chart right, it was manufactured in 1930.

Bob

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Hardy Palakona 9ft. #E20781

A fellow member of The Central Oregon Fly Fishers group here in
Bendwasasking me if I knew anything about the 3pc. 9ft. Hardy Palakona (2
tips)heinherited 
from his grandfather (he himself is in his late fifties or early60's, so I expect
the rod could be 
from the early 1900's).  He said that herod had a serial number of E20781
on the butt.  Any information about therod (date, line size, approximate
value [assuming condition was

would be appreciated.Thomas Penrose

from chris@artistree.com Tue Jan  4 00:46:38 2000

[205.134.244.101] (may beforged))

Subject: Re: Hardy Palakona 9ft. #E20781

Not sure if it's the same model but I have 2 tip 9ft. Hardy Palakona

from 1929. Also, signed The Fairy Rod with a lot of green
intermediates.Ralph Moon felt that it was a lighter rod 
from Hardy. It has Medium toslow action and casts a DT 6 very nicely.--
Regards,

Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com

A fellow member of The Central Oregon Fly Fishers group here in
Bendwasasking me if I knew anything about the 3pc. 9ft. Hardy Palakona (2
tips)heinherited 
from his grandfather (he himself is in his late fifties or early60's, so I expect
the rod could be 
from the early 1900's).  He said thatherod had a serial number of E20781 on
the butt.  Any information abouttherod (date, line size, approximate value
[assuming condition was

would be appreciated.Thomas Penrose

from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan  4 02:02:58 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: RE: South Bend Model 359

I have several 359's, one near mint with all brown wraps... can't find
theothers...

I have a SB with green/black jasper (wish I had some of that thread) toobutit
is a high end Double-built rod. It looks like they changed wrappingcolors
often... I guess the good news is that you can choose 
from manycolors if you're going to do a full refinish... Save your jasper
thread forthe more expensive rods.

Darrell

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago and
uponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not original.The
thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the ferrulesfit nicely,
but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas wondering what
the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on this thing so I
can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the
cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and
PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back into
shape?  Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from tjsbamboo@alltel.net Tue Jan  4 05:56:05 2000

FAA05464

Subject: unsubcribe

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5677.EE3C7620"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5677.EE3C7620

unsubscribe

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5677.EE3C7620

unsubscribe

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5677.EE3C7620--

from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jan  4 08:03:23 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 4 Jan 2000 07:33:45 -0600

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

This is getting sort of interesting. I have an almost mint SB Double Built,that
must have been made during the Jordan era, as the quality if far abovethe
average SB rod. It also has a number not listed in Sinclair's book, buthas the
Black w/ white (or possibly gold) tipping. It's a #166, in 9".

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: South Bend Model 359

I have several 359's, one near mint with all brown wraps... can't find
theothers...

I have a SB with green/black jasper (wish I had some of that thread) toobutit
is a high end Double-built rod. It looks like they changed wrappingcolors
often... I guess the good news is that you can choose 
from manycolors if you're going to do a full refinish... Save your jasper
threadforthe more expensive rods.

Darrell

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 10:07 PM

Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not
original.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the
ferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas
wondering what the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on
this thing so I can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the
front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up
with cork dust and PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting
this thing back into shape?Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just
got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan  4 08:03:51 2000

2000 05:56:38 PST

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

dennis,  i have found in my limmited experience withsouth bend that the
guides and diameters sometimes donot match up on double tipped rods.  at
least ive seenit more than once.  i'm not one of the big collectorsbut i have a
buddy that's been doing it along time andwe,ve gone through his collection
and talked aboutthis sort of stuff as we find it.  timothy   

--- Dennis Haftel wrote:Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 nottoo long ago and
uponmatching the tips together I noticed that one ofthem is not original. The
thread colors match, the varnish is "prettygood" and the ferrulesfit nicely,
but the guides don't line up when placedside by side.  Iwas wondering what the
name of the color green isthat was used for thewraps on this thing so I can
restore it to itsfactory spec.  There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the
corkcomfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust
andPVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thingback
into shape?  Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's justgot...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan  4 12:01:07 2000

2000 10:00:45 PST

Subject: testing

did something happen to the list?   timothy

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from jhewitt@cmn.net Tue Jan  4 14:00:48 2000

Subject: ROD ID...Stabil Original ??

I need help identifying a rod...Before any work is done on this rodI want to be
able to assure the owner that it is not an irreplaceablework of art.The rod is
a 3/1 bamboo, 9' 3" in length.The reel seat is DLaluminum, Black aluminum on
what would be the seat insert. The butt caphas a screw holding it to the reel
seat. The grip is cigar shaped and isin terrible condition, it looks like it's been
chewed on by mice...Thewinding check is black rubber, about 3/8" wide.On the
butt section is written:Flat #1          Stabil#2                Original#3 (guessing)
Noris#4                216#5 (guessing) Noris#6                 216

The stripper is agate, and in unusable condition. The guides appearto be
chrome plated steel, The tip-top is agate.  The wraps are red withno accents
except on the signature wraps where there are red and greenwraps.All
sections are equal in length. The finish isnearly worn off. The ferules are
badly corroded. The female ferules arestraight with no welt, the male ferules
do have a     shoulder, and theplug on the male is inset about a 64th of an
inch.Thanks in advance for any help identifying this rod.John Hewitt

from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jan  4 15:20:37 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com for ;Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:30:49 -0600

Subject: Snakes

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BF56B8.16EF0E80"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BF56B8.16EF0E80

Am going to get rid of my supply of snake guides if anyone is =interested.  
Contact me off list for details.

Bob

------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BF56B8.16EF0E80

Bob

------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BF56B8.16EF0E80--

from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Jan  4 15:21:37 2000

Subject: Fast 7 1/2 4wt

Hey guy'sSorry to bother you all again, but I am still looking for a very fast
7'6" 4wt taper that is a true 4wt . Thanks againJoe

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan  4 15:45:25 2000

2000 13:45:00 PST

Subject: Re: Fast 7 1/2 4wt

joe,  greetings! what kind of distance do you plan tofish the rod?  small
stream or big river?  what partof the country do you plan to use it?  timothy

--- Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote:Hey guy'sSorry to bother you all again, but I
amstill looking for a very fast 7'6" 4wt taper that is a true 4wt . Thanks
againJoe

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Jan  4 16:14:42 2000

Subject: YLI

Jeez, this is one of those "fine line" situations.  I guess that I'll optto
preserve the integrity of the list, and just say that I have a source

similar price to Quiltworks, but please contact me off list if interested.

Dave

from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Jan  4 16:53:03 2000

Subject: Re: Hardy Palakona 9ft. #E20781

Hi Thomas,The E20781 Palakona was made in 1930 and the value if in
excellentconditionwith bag and case is about $400.Ray----- Original Message -
----

Subject: Hardy Palakona 9ft. #E20781

A fellow member of The Central Oregon Fly Fishers group here in
Bendwasasking me if I knew anything about the 3pc. 9ft. Hardy Palakona (2
tips)heinherited 
from his grandfather (he himself is in his late fifties or early60's, so I expect
the rod could be 
from the early 1900's).  He said thatherod had a serial number of E20781 on
the butt.  Any information abouttherod (date, line size, approximate value
[assuming condition was

would be appreciated.Thomas Penrose

from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jan  4 17:33:45 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: test

Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from trippma@mindspring.com Tue Jan  4 17:34:09 2000

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

And getting stranger!  I am looking at a 9' 359 right now, that I was toldnever
has been cast.  (I trust the person who told me this, he is a friendand avid
collector, and the SB tube is brand new!)

Now this rod has black and orange jasper wraps...

Hmmm...

-Mark

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Dennis,This is strange, isn't it.  I'm looking at a SB 359 right now.Thewraps
are definitely blue, tipped gold.  So we've got Sinclair's b/wjasper, amedium
green, and my blue tipped gold.  Any other combo's out there?

Harry

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is
notoriginal.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and
theferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by side. 
Iwas wondering what the name of the color green is that was
usedforthewraps on this thing so I can restore it to its factory spec. 
There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I
wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and PVA glue. 
Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back
intoshape?Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan  4 17:53:31 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: RE: South Bend Model 359

#166 I believe the #100 series means a light trout action and #66 is
themodel type... SB was strange in that there was no logical order as to
thenumber referring to the quality of the rod... The #55 was a low grade
rod.A19 was a top grade rod, a #59 was a higher grade rod than a #55....
Ihaven't figured it out yet.

I do know the #300 series was a dry fly action, a two digit rod numberwas
abass or heavier rod action and the #100 series was the light trout
actionrods.

Darrell-----Original Message-----

edriddle@mindspring.com

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

This is getting sort of interesting. I have an almost mint SB Double Built,that
must have been made during the Jordan era, as the quality if far abovethe
average SB rod. It also has a number not listed in Sinclair's book, buthas the
Black w/ white (or possibly gold) tipping. It's a #166, in 9".

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: South Bend Model 359

I have several 359's, one near mint with all brown wraps... can't find
theothers...

I have a SB with green/black jasper (wish I had some of that thread) toobutit
is a high end Double-built rod. It looks like they changed wrappingcolors
often... I guess the good news is that you can choose 
from manycolors if you're going to do a full refinish... Save your jasper
threadforthe more expensive rods.

Darrell

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 10:07 PM

Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not
original.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the
ferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas
wondering what the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on
this thing so I can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the
front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up
with cork dust and PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting
this thing back into shape?Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just
got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from dpeaston@wzrd.com Tue Jan  4 19:32:36 2000

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

How about black and tan Jasper. 

-Doug Easton

Dennis,This is strange, isn't it.  I'm looking at a SB 359 right now.  Thewraps
are definitely blue, tipped gold.  So we've got Sinclair's b/wjasper, amedium
green, and my blue tipped gold.  Any other combo's out there?

Harry

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitely notblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is not
original.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and the
ferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by side.  Iwas
wondering what the name of the color green is that was used forthewraps on
this thing so I can restore it to its factory spec.  There'salso a chip in the
front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I wasthinking of building it back up
with cork dust and PVA glue.  Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting
this thing back into shape? Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just
got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

Doug EastonTonawanda, NY

from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Jan  4 19:33:04 2000

with ESMTP id 

+0000

Subject: Thank you (South Bend Mod. 359)

Thanks to all for the deluge of responses to my situation.  It almostlooks like
SB couldn't decide on a "standard".  OR...  I guess I'drather believe that they
were then as we are now, restricted to theavailability of materials at the
time of construction.

Thanks again to everyone!

Dennis

from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan  4 19:40:52 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: FE Thomas Streamer Rod Taper

To all that requested the taper 
from this rod... I will measure it if no onecomes forward that has already
measured the taper...

Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com

from sats@gte.net Tue Jan  4 20:16:44 2000

Subject: Re: Veritas Planes

Got 2 more Record 9 1/2 planes the other day and they have changed
theirfrog tightening device to a screw. Anyone else like the screw thing. It's
apain. Barely works. Not a lot of room for your fingers to get a grip on
it.Hard to keep alignment of the blade when you;re tightening the thing.

I came across a 9 1/2 Miller Falls at a Flea Market, for $12.   I grabbed
itup,even though it was fairly rough.  I figured I could clean it up.   It was
onlyafter I got home that I realized, the lever was busted off the snail (is
thatwhat they're really called -- the part that holds the Frog in place?)  I
hadtoreplace it with a male knob.  I Agree that they're a pain in the butt. 
I'dsuggest replacing it with a 'hex' head screw of about the same size. 
Thenjustuse a hex wrench to tighten and loosen.  They're usually available at
anyhardware store.

Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa
Bay)sats@gte.net

from sats@gte.net Tue Jan  4 20:16:45 2000

Subject: Re: Perfect Workbench

I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in
designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc.

I have very limited space in my work room, so I was looking for a long
andfairly thin work area.   Two happy coincidences happened at almost
thesametime.   

First -- I came across a 5ft x 12 ~15in. utility shelf at work.  This shelfhada
laminated top, 1/2 or 3/4in plywood under and 2x2 or 2x4 all the
wayaroundthe edges.   

Second -- I came across a steel sawhorse in Home Depot.  It's about
42inlongwith ADJUSTABLE HEIGHT LEGS!  All this talk of best high will have
meexperimenting with that.  The fact that it's steel means that it has a
lotofweight. 

I bolted the sawhorse to the bottom of the shelf and now have a
portable(andmore important for me) storable planing surface.   I don't think I
couldturnthis rig over by accident.

Most of my workbench area was in the house when I got here, and I
wouldhavedone it differently, but it works for me so I'm not going to change
it.   

I also have two saw horses (that I can store, one on top of the other) 
thatIoften use.   

Thanks to all who gave input to this thread.  You gave me much food
forthought.

Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa
Bay)sats@gte.net

from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Jan  4 21:40:24 2000

Subject: Maker's soul

Does anyone know who originated this quote: "No wonder bamboo rods
areheavier; the maker pours his soul into them" ?  It, or something like it,was
spotted on a t-shirt at the Grand Gathering last May.

TIA,Kat

from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jan  4 22:07:44 2000

(envelope-
from richjez@enteract.com)

Subject: Test

boundary="=====================_20747273==_.ALT"

--=====================_20747273==_.ALT

Test

*________________________________)//        Rich
Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):>       >                   ))):>--
=====================_20747273==_.ALT

Test

*_____________

___________________)

@/

||/

____/||_________________________________________

p;/\ 

;

/

bsp;

--=====================_20747273==_.ALT--

from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan  4 22:28:39 2000

Subject: Ammonium Carbonate

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Jan  4 22:41:46 2000

sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA02470 for ;Wed, 5 Jan 200017:39:29 +1300

Subject: Hardy Palakona

I had sent a note to Chris and Thomas regarding Thomas's question on
theHardy Palakona rod. Chris suggested my note may be if interest to
othermembers so is summarised below. 

It is my understanding that " palakona" is the trade name Hardy
registeredand used for the high quality (?) cane they made rods 
from and whichsupposedly produced superior rods to the competition. As
such the name"palakona" appears on most Hardy cane rods 
from the 1920's  onwards butisnot a model name. In affect you can have a
Hardy "The Gem " model madeoutof palakona cane and both names will appear
on the rod. 

A variation to this was the"hollokona" name used in the late 1950s
and1960's to designate hollow built rods made of palakona cane and to
aparticular taper model , eg "The Gem".

regards

Ian Kearney 

from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Jan  5 01:28:51 2000

(InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP

+0100

Subject: Sv: Hardy Palakona

Ian Kearney wrote 

It is my understanding that " palakona" is the trade name Hardyregisteredand
used for the high quality (?) cane they made rods 
from and whichsupposedly produced superior rods to the competition. As
such the name"palakona" appears on most Hardy cane rods 
from the 1920's  onwards butisnot a model name. In affect you can have a
Hardy "The Gem " model madeoutof palakona cane and both names will appear
on the rod. 

Hardy still manufacture and sell Hardy Palakona Splitbamboo rods. Theyare
stil of anexquisit quality - their finish are, as allways, second to none.
FurthermoreYou canorder a C.C. de France, or any other rod of the past,
built specially for You.Separatetips for models, long gone, can allso still be
ordered - at a price.

Hardy Bros. are still present in the cane rod world with their PalakonaTrade
Mark.

regards,

Carsten Jorgensen

from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Jan  5 07:07:51 2000

(Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id  for

Subject: test: nomsg

from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Jan  5 07:19:03 2000

don")

Wed, 5 Jan 2000 06:18:05 -0700

Subject: Beveling

Guys,

Been thinking that each of the bevelers require that the cane be
absolutelystraight 
from the get go. Any ideas how this is accomplished?

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan  5 07:44:12 2000

Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id 
forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed,

Subject: RE: Hardy Palakona

I recently sold a Hardy Palakona Fairy 9 ft 3 pc. The buyer contacted
Hardywith the serial number to find out more about the rod. Hardy
mentionedthatthe rod was built in 1903. So, I think the Palakona has been
around sincebefore the 20s.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 11:39 PM

Subject: Hardy Palakona

I had sent a note to Chris and Thomas regarding Thomas'squestion on
theHardy Palakona rod. Chris suggested my note may be ifinterest to
othermembers so is summarised below.

It is my understanding that " palakona" is the trade nameHardy registeredand
used for the high quality (?) cane they made rods 
from and whichsupposedly produced superior rods to the competition. As
such the name"palakona" appears on most Hardy cane rods 
from the 1920'sonwards but isnot a model name. In affect you can have a
Hardy "The Gem "model made outof palakona cane and both names will appear
on the rod.

A variation to this was the"hollokona" name used in the late 1950s
and1960's to designate hollow built rods made of palakona cane and to
aparticular taper model , eg "The Gem".

regards

Ian Kearney

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 09:48:49 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:39:53 -0600

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

This is sounding more like Montague and H-I every day !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: South Bend Model 359

And getting stranger!  I am looking at a 9' 359 right now, that I was toldnever
has been cast.  (I trust the person who told me this, he is a friendand avid
collector, and the SB tube is brand new!)

Now this rod has black and orange jasper wraps...

Hmmm...

-Mark

----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd 

Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 7:46 PMSubject: Re: South Bend Model 359

Dennis,This is strange, isn't it.  I'm looking at a SB 359 right now.Thewraps
are definitely blue, tipped gold.  So we've got Sinclair's b/wjasper, amedium
green, and my blue tipped gold.  Any other combo's out there?

Harry

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Looks like I found a Y2K bug in my PC!  I just noticed the date on mymessage
was 1980.  I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure...

Anyway, what I forgot to mention is that this rod is a 9 footer.  Idon't know
if that makes a difference, but the thread is definitelynotblack and white
jasper.  It's a medium green.  Not forest or emerald,but not light green
either.  It's somewhere in between.  Perhaps thisrod is less "factory original"
than I thought!

Thanx,

Dennis

Ed Riddle wrote:

Dennis:Sinclair's book says the #359 wraps were Black & White Jasper.Ed----
-Original Message-----From: Dennis Haftel 

Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: South Bend Model 359

Hi folks,

I got my hands on an old South Bend Model 359 not too long ago
anduponmatching the tips together I noticed that one of them is
notoriginal.The thread colors match, the varnish is "pretty good" and
theferrulesfit nicely, but the guides don't line up when placed side by
side.Iwas wondering what the name of the color green is that was
usedforthewraps on this thing so I can restore it to its factory
spec.There'salso a chip in the front "rib" of the cork comfi-cient grip.  I
wasthinking of building it back up with cork dust and PVA glue. 
Anysuggestions as to how to go about getting this thing back
intoshape?Iknow it's not a Payne or a Gillum, but it's just got...  character.

Any advise would be appreciated.

TIA,

Dennis

from jhewitt@cmn.net Wed Jan  5 10:29:58 2000

Subject: Re: test: nomsg

Steve I recieved your message, however the list seems extremely slow,
Ihaven't seen anything else since sometime yesterday.John Hewitt

Steve Trauthwein wrote:

from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Jan  5 12:01:09 2000

(InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP

+0100

Subject: Sv: Beveling

-Don Andersen wrote:

Guys,

Been thinking that each of the bevelers require that the cane
beabsolutelystraight 
from the get go. Any ideas how this is accomplished?

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

Well, I guess the splits are made oversize and then bevelled the ....... out
ofthem:-)

regards,Carsten

from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Jan  5 12:01:38 2000

(InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP

Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:40:14 +0100

Subject: Sv: Beveling

-Don wrote:

Guys,

Been thinking that each of the bevelers require that the cane
beabsolutelystraight 
from the get go. Any ideas how this is accomplished?

Don

Well, how about just splitting into oversize splits and then bevel the sh..out
of eachsplit? :-)

regards,Carsten

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Jan  5 12:38:04 2000

2000 07:51:22 PST

Subject: test test

are we here yet? tjt

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com

from listreader@codemarine.com Wed Jan  5 12:38:44 2000

codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet
MailService Version5.5.2448.0)

Subject: One-piece rod tapers?

I'm just finishing up the blanks for my first three rods. It has been quitethe
learningexperience and a nice hobby--I'm extremely impressed by those of
you whodo thisprofessionally.

Anyway, I thought it would be fun (and less expensive) to build a one-
piecerod. In therodmakers taper archive I noticed two rods: a 5'6" and a 4'4".
Does anyonehave otherfavorite tapers in the 4'6" to 5'6" range they'd be
willing share?

Thanks,

Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com

from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Jan  5 12:50:55 2000

Subject: off-line

Apparently I was off list 
from 2:35 a.m. to 1:06 p.m. today (1/5).If anything sent via List intended
for me, please send to my email address.Sorry 'bout this.Ed

from jhewitt@cmn.net Wed Jan  5 13:41:24 2000

Subject: Rod ID???

I originally sent this while the list was acting up, so if you'verecieved it twice I
apologize...

I need help identifying a rod...Before any work is done on this rodI want to be
able to assure the owner that it is not an irreplaceablework of art.The rod is
a 3/1 bamboo, 9' 3" in length.The reel seat is DLaluminum, Black plastic seat
insert. The butt cap has a screw on eachside holding it to the reel seat. The
grip is cigar shaped and is interrible condition, it looks like it's been chewed
on by mice...Thewinding check is black rubber, about 3/8" wide.On the butt
section is written:Flat #1          Stabil#2                Original#3 (guessing)
Noris#4                216#5 (guessing) Noris#6                 216

The stripper is agate, and in unusable condition. The guides appearto be
chrome plated steel, The tip-top is agate.  The wraps are red withno accents
except on the signature wraps where there are red and greenwraps.All
sections are equal in length. The finish is nearly worn off. Theferules are
badly corroded. The female ferules are straight with nowelt, the male ferules
do have a shoulder but no welt, and the plug onthe male is inset about a 64th
of an inch.Thanks in advance for any help identifying this rod.John Hewitt

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Jan  5 13:49:39 2000

2000 11:49:37 PST

Subject: new shop website

greetings comrads,  i thought i would share this newweb site we are putting
together for the flyfishingshop i work with.  our plan right now is to
provideinformation and announce activities not to create acatalog.  anyway
it's new and still very much in theprocess but i know that some of you keep
track ofthese things.  any suggestions that someone might havewould be
appreciated.  i don't think this conflictswith newsgroup policy.  if it does, i will
standcorrected.  timothy   

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan  5 14:36:46 2000

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 15:35:03 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:17:45 -0600

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

I'd appreciate more on this subject too ! Or, a source for such data.

GMA----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Jan  5 16:12:08 2000

0000

Subject: RE: Ammonium Carbonate

Tony,I use ammonium carbonate while heat treating. Place a few spoonsful in
asmall container when you're heating up the oven (I use a split piece
ofculmabout 4" long). You will have to experiment to get the color you
want.Therewill be a lot of ammonia fumes released. I'm assuming that you
have somesort of vent on your oven to release water vapor. You cannot do
this in aroom where you will be working. These fumes are nasty and also can
becorrosive to oven components, so be careful.

Aside 
from coloring bamboo, I have "fumed" realseats in a jar on thewindowsill and
furniture. Last week I fumed a new oak workbench in aplastictent outside. It
was 30 degrees F and so it took two days but it came outbeautifully.

A good source of bulk ammonium carbonate is a bakery supply house. One
ineastern PA sells 5 lbs for about $14.

Tom

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from mark_lang@tnb.com Wed Jan  5 17:14:02 2000

with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 15:42:55 -0600

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

Tony and list,Also I remember reading (Mauer book?) about this, but I believe
that a boxoven with heatstrips were used.  Can a heat gun oven also be used
with this material andif so what isthe process?

Mark

Tony Spezio  01/05/00 02:34PM >>>

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com 

from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Jan  5 17:17:38 2000

Subject: Re: One-piece rod tapers?

Hi Steve,I have a dandy 5ft taper and a 6 ft taper I'll send you.Ray-----
Original Message -----

Subject: One-piece rod tapers?

I'm just finishing up the blanks for my first three rods. It has beenquite the
learning experience and a nice hobby--I'm extremely impressedbythose of you
who do this professionally.

Anyway, I thought it would be fun (and less expensive) to build aone-piece
rod. In the rodmakers taper archive I noticed two rods: a 5'6"anda 4'4". Does
anyone have other favorite tapers in the 4'6" to 5'6" rangethey'd be willing
share?

Thanks,

Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com

from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Wed Jan  5 17:34:45 2000

Subject: paul young rods

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in his collection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, and wasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learned thefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715 or3517,
Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though still
inbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make it special

I hope this helps someone. 

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 17:48:25 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:48:49 -0600

Subject: Re: paul young rods

I wish there was a color chart to show what these two numbers
represent.Isaw many PHY rods, in the early 1950's, as they were stocked in
a sportinggoods store, in downtown Dallas. All of these were what I see
calledbeige,or a pretty light brown. This is darker than a kaki. I still have a
spool orso of this I got 
from Paul.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: paul young rods

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in hiscollection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, andwasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learned thefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715
or3517,Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though still
inbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make itspecial

I hope this helps someone.

from aab@fls.infi.net Wed Jan  5 18:15:38 2000

Subject: (no subject)

My father left me an old bamboo fly rod, with sack and black cardboardtube. 
The only marking anywhere is closest to the cork but on the rod,which says "
trout queen V541". The rod is six sided, three piece (withtwo tips, one
several inches shorter than the other), and approximately8.5'.  Can you
identify or point me in the right direction. thanks,Bill BrasseFredericksburg,
VA

from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Wed Jan  5 18:53:00 2000

Subject: Maker's soul

Hi,

Does anyone know the origin of the following:"No wonder bamboo rods are
heavier; the maker pours his soul into them" ?

It, or something like it, was written on a t-shirt at the Grand Gatheringlast
May.

TIA,Kat

from pac1for@earthlink.net Wed Jan  5 19:21:02 2000

Subject: Re: (no subject)

Hello Bill,

I own a trout Queen rod.  It is a bit of an enigma to me.  I have been toldthat
the wraps resemble those of a Wright & McGill.  The funny thing is,after
buying it, I tried a number of line weights on it and found a 10weight worked
best!  A 10 weight "Trout Queen"?  I broke it on the 2ndfishi ever caught on it
- a three pound lake run brown trout.  Examining thebreak, I noticed a huge
step-down in diameter between the tip of the midsection and the butt of the
tip section.  Breaking the rod was amathematical inevitability.  The taper
looks like it was completelyeyeballed.  Anyway, i would be curious to see what
you learn about therod'sorigins.

Peter Collin

from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Wed Jan  5 19:49:21 2000

"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: paul young rods

One thing I forgot to add: the wraps were finnished without
colorpreserver,which let them turn to a transparent golden-brown.Sorry. . 

-----Original Message-----

Subject:        paul young rods

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in his collection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, and wasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learned thefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715 or3517,
Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though still
inbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make it special

I hope this helps someone. 

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 19:54:46 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:45:47 -0600

Subject: Re: (no subject)

The name "Trout Queen" sounds Montague, or maybe H-I to me. If
thefemaleferrules neck down 
from the major diameter, then I'm pretty sure it's aMonty. Is this name done
in white ink, or black script ?

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: (no subject)

Hello Bill,

I own a trout Queen rod.  It is a bit of an enigma to me.  I have beentoldthat
the wraps resemble those of a Wright & McGill.  The funny thing is,after
buying it, I tried a number of line weights on it and found a 10weight worked
best!  A 10 weight "Trout Queen"?  I broke it on the 2ndfishi ever caught on it
- a three pound lake run brown trout.  Examining thebreak, I noticed a huge
step-down in diameter between the tip of the midsection and the butt of the
tip section.  Breaking the rod was amathematical inevitability.  The taper
looks like it was completelyeyeballed.  Anyway, i would be curious to see what
you learn about therod'sorigins.

Peter Collin

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 19:58:01 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:49:02 -0600

Subject: Re: paul young rods

That's exactly what the color of thread I got 
from Paul does. I never saw aPHY that was on the rack, in a store, that
wasn't color preserver sealedthough. Fill the thread with varnish though, and
it turns a darker,translucent brown.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: paul young rods

One thing I forgot to add: the wraps were finnished without
colorpreserver,which let them turn to a transparent golden-brown.Sorry. .

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 3:23 PM

Subject: paul young rods

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in hiscollection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, andwasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learned thefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715
or3517,Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though still
inbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make itspecial

I hope this helps someone.

from Canerods@aol.com Wed Jan  5 19:58:11 2000

Subject: Re: Rod ID???

John,

Sounds like a bottom-end production rod. You'd be better off turning thisrod
into a banty rod and not wasting much effort at restoring it.

ALL IMHO,

Don Burns

from Canerods@aol.com Wed Jan  5 20:13:07 2000

Subject: Re: (no subject)

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

In a message dated 1/5/00 5:56:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nobler@satx.rr.com writes:

A Tonka Queen is a 7'9" H-I - 2 piece rod of reasonable quality - hand-welted
NS straight ferrules. 

A Trout Queen could be a Japanese "GI" rod or any one of many trade rods

the big production companies. 

Step-down ferrules does sound H-I or Montague. 

Best compare the ferrules, hookkeeper, reelseat and winding check
toexamples of these brands of rods in a copy of Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod
Restoration Handbook".

If the rod bag is pea green with purple threads - clear sign of a Montague rod.

Don Burns

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 20:54:51 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:45:54 -0600

Subject: Re: H-I rod

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
has partof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of six
stripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from oakmere@carol.net Wed Jan  5 21:07:44 2000

Subject: RE: Lie-Nelson Plane

Hi Folks:

After looking at the Lie-Nelson web site I need some guidance on
planeselection. They list two plane designs, a Low Angle and a Standard
planes.Which one is best for the use of planing bamboo rods if I am going
toinvest my $? Also would the experts recommend the 5 mil grove in
theplane?Thanks for all your inputs and I apologize if I missed anything on
priordiscussion on this subject.

FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 
29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home)

from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan  5 21:16:29 2000

Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:16:19 -0600

Subject: Re: H-I rod

I have a butt and tip section , no mid section of a 3 piece rod that is
madethat way. I have a mid section I think is 
from a Montage that fits itperfectincluding the ferrules. No name or ID
anywhere. The corners are not justsandedoff , it is like a six section tapered
dowel. It appears to be original. Themidsection did not come with the round
rod, it is something I had picked upsomewhere.I also would like some info on
this.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

nobler wrote:

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
haspartof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of six
stripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:34 PMSubject: Re: Ammonium
Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 21:37:42 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:37:57 -0600

Subject: Re: H-I rod

Mine is definitely H-I, as the decal is there, and it has straight
femaleferrules, not stepped down, like a Monty. Mine is also 3- piece,w/
extratip.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: H-I rod

I have a butt and tip section , no mid section of a 3 piece rod that
ismadethat way. I have a mid section I think is 
from a Montage that fits itperfectincluding the ferrules. No name or ID
anywhere. The corners are not justsandedoff , it is like a six section tapered
dowel. It appears to be original.The midsection did not come with the round
rod, it is something I had picked upsomewhere.I also would like some info on
this.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

nobler wrote:

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
haspartof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of
sixstripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:34 PMSubject: Re: Ammonium
Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan  5 21:38:29 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:38:51 -0600

Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane

I'm glad someone else asked this, as i was going to !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: Lie-Nelson Plane

Hi Folks:

After looking at the Lie-Nelson web site I need some guidance on
planeselection. They list two plane designs, a Low Angle and a
Standardplanes.Which one is best for the use of planing bamboo rods if I am
going toinvest my $? Also would the experts recommend the 5 mil grove in
theplane?Thanks for all your inputs and I apologize if I missed anything on
priordiscussion on this subject.

FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 
29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home)

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan  5 21:49:55 2000

Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane

nobler wrote:

Hi Folks:

After looking at the Lie-Nelson web site I need some guidance on
planeselection. They list two plane designs, a Low Angle and a
Standardplanes.Frank

Although I'm far 
from an expert, if this is going to be your ONLYplane,I would recommend that
you get the standard adjustable throat plane,without thegroove.  The LN is a
modern well-made version of the plane rodmakershave beenusing for
generations.  then again, if this is going to be your only plane, Iwould
recommend getting 2 or 3 Stanley 9.5's for about the same money.

But if you get two or more, get one with the groove, and one without.When
the grooved plane is used correctly, it does cut down a little onsharpening,
especially for those who are new to planing bamboo.  If youget onlythe
grooved plane, you have to either set the forms intentionally small, ordevise
some way of removing the final .0005 - .003 inches that remainsaboveyour
forms.

Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan  5 21:55:54 2000

Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:56:39 +0800

Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane

If you a;ready owned and liked the lower angle plane you could just stickwith
it. I've used the 60 1/2 right 
from the start and as long as you makesure the throat is adjusted correctly
related to the depth of cut and don'ttry taking too much on each cut the
lower angled plane works fine. However if you're buying 
from scratch get the higher angled one. It's lesslikely to tear out bamboo and
also seems to be easier to live with as faras getting just a few more passes
with the plane iron before re-sharpeningpresumably because the higher angle
of attack reduces the the likelyhoodoftearing the bamboo so the cut is
cleaner. That's based on what I find usingthe same brand of iron in both
planes.

Tony

At 09:39 PM 1/5/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'm glad someone else asked this,
as i was going to !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank W. Paul" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 9:07 PMSubject: RE: Lie-Nelson Plane

Hi Folks:

After looking at the Lie-Nelson web site I need some guidance on
planeselection. They list two plane designs, a Low Angle and a
Standardplanes.Which one is best for the use of planing bamboo rods if I am
going toinvest my $? Also would the experts recommend the 5 mil grove in
theplane?Thanks for all your inputs and I apologize if I missed anything on
priordiscussion on this subject.

FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 
29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home)

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan  5 22:16:09 2000

Subject: Node spacing

Can anyone give me the node stager that was usedon the Granger 7' 4
wt.ThanksTony Flytyr@southshore.com

from jczimny@dol.net Wed Jan  5 22:22:04 2000

Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane

Probably best to buy the higher angle plane. There is less tear-out.
Thebezelcan be ground a 30 degrees allowing for an included angle of 50
degrees -a goodone for avoiding tear-out.However, even with a low-angle
plane, the bezel can be ground a higherangle soas to gain an included angle
that will avoid chipping.John Z.

nobler wrote:

I'm glad someone else asked this, as i was going to !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank W. Paul" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 9:07 PMSubject: RE: Lie-Nelson Plane

Hi Folks:

After looking at the Lie-Nelson web site I need some guidance on
planeselection. They list two plane designs, a Low Angle and a
Standardplanes.Which one is best for the use of planing bamboo rods if I am
going toinvest my $? Also would the experts recommend the 5 mil grove in
theplane?Thanks for all your inputs and I apologize if I missed anything on
priordiscussion on this subject.

FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 
29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home)

from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Wed Jan  5 22:42:05 2000

with ESMTP id 

+0000

Subject: Setting Forms

boundary="------------9900D70ECEF28E992B311FB8"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.--------------
9900D70ECEF28E992B311FB8

Finally have form.  Don't have depth gage, do have mic and dialcaliper. 
Searched Rodmakers archive for an article I think I saw in thepast that
decribed using a known "round" (aka drill bit) and a littlemath to set the
depth/taper.  Could anyone give me a pointer to this?Also, any advice on
setting form would be appreciated, ie. work fromthick to thin or vice versa? 
Thought the article in question wasoriginally on Chris Bogarts site, but can't,
find it now.

--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon

"When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane

--------------9900D70ECEF28E992B311FB8

name="flyh2o.vcf"

filename="flyh2o.vcf"

begin:vcard n:Leitheiser;Mike

adr:;;;Lake
Oswego;Oregon;;version:2.1email;internet:flyh2o@worldnet.att.netnote;quoted-printable:"When the trout are lost, smash the state."=0D=0ATom
McGuanefn:Mike Leitheiserend:vcard

--------------9900D70ECEF28E992B311FB8--

from stpete@netten.net Wed Jan  5 22:53:13 2000

Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:54:51 -0600

Subject: Re: Setting Forms

Mike,

It's there.  Go to Chris' page and click on 'Rodmaking Classes'.  Fromthat
page, click on 'Rodmaking Tools Info'.  The link is at the top ofthat page.  You
will need Acrobat Reader but it is a freebie off the netand you will use it
other places.  Great article.

Rick Crenshaw

Mike Leitheiser wrote:

Finally have form.  Don't have depth gage, do have mic and dialcaliper. 
Searched Rodmakers archive for an article I think I saw in thepast that
decribed using a known "round" (aka drill bit) and a littlemath to set the
depth/taper.  Could anyone give me a pointer to this?Also, any advice on
setting form would be appreciated, ie. work fromthick to thin or vice versa? 
Thought the article in question wasoriginally on Chris Bogarts site, but can't,
find it now.

--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon

"When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane

---------------------------------------------------------------

Name: flyh2o.vcfPart 1.2          Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: 7bitDescription:
Card for Mike Leitheiser

from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Jan  5 23:18:39 2000

Subject: Re: Setting Forms

A couple things I realized while setting up the forms I was building forfiling
the groove:

With 5/16-18 bolts one full turn of the bolt is 1/18 of an inch or .0555",So
using an allen wrench it's easy to make ~1/4 turn and ~1/6 turn. Forevery
1/4 turn the forms move .013" and for every 1/6" the forms
move.009".Knowing this let me quickly do a coarse set up of the forms.

If you know the depth of a station when the forms are closed you can
settheeffective depth with a dial caliper. The depth will increase as the
formsseperate. The effective depth is:

Depth(desired) = Depth(closed) + (Gap * sin(60))

Or solving for the gap in the forms:

Gap = (Depth(desired) - Depth(closed)) / sin(60)

This should let you set the depth without a depth indicator by
measuringthegap with a dial caliper.

Paul

PS: if you need a calculator that can do sin(60) and you are using
windowsopen up the calculator on the accessories menu and click on VIEW
andselectScientific. If not stick .866 into the equation.

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Setting Forms

Finally have form.  Don't have depth gage, do have mic and dialcaliper. 
Searched Rodmakers archive for an article I think I saw in thepast that
decribed using a known "round" (aka drill bit) and a littlemath to set the
depth/taper.  Could anyone give me a pointer to this?Also, any advice on
setting form would be appreciated, ie. work fromthick to thin or vice versa? 
Thought the article in question wasoriginally on Chris Bogarts site, but can't,
find it now.

--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon

"When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane

from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jan  6 04:53:11 2000

(SMTPD32-6.00) id A57298B0086; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 05:58:58 -0500

Subject: Re: H-I rod

George,The H-I rod that is rounded cane is the "Senate". I've seen them
butnevercast one.Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
haspartof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of six
stripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:34 PMSubject: Re: Ammonium
Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jan  6 04:58:23 2000

(SMTPD32-6.00) id A6AB68F0076; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 06:04:11 -0500

Subject: Re: H-I rod

George,check this url:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-
cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230872810Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
haspartof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of six
stripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:34 PMSubject: Re: Ammonium
Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Jan  6 07:19:31 2000

Subject: RE: Ammonium Carbonate

Tony,

I sent this response yesterday but it never showed up on the list,
heregoesagain.

I use ammonium carbonate while heat treating ( both unspilt culms
androughbeveled strips). Place a few spoonsful in a small container when
you'reheating up the oven (I use a split piece of culm about 4" long). You
willhave to experiment to get the color you want. There will be a lot
ofammoniafumes released. I'm assuming that you have some sort of vent on
your oventorelease water vapor. You cannot do this in a room where you will
beworking.These fumes are nasty and also can be corrosive to oven
components, so becareful.

Aside 
from coloring bamboo, I have "fumed" realseats in a jar on thewindowsill and
furniture. Last week I fumed a new oak workbench in aplastictent outside. It
was 30 degrees F and so it took two days but it came outbeautifully.

A good source of bulk ammonium carbonate is a bakery supply house. One
ineastern PA sells 5 lbs for about $14.

Tom

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jan  6 07:58:19 2000

Subject: Re: H-I rod

In a message dated 1/5/00 7:00:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nobler@satx.rr.com writes:

Some H-I and Montague rods were made that way. Cheaper to produce?
Ormaybe because they were trying to look more like a greenheart/other
wood rods.

Don Burns

from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan  6 08:15:53 2000

with ESMTP id 

+0000

Subject: Setting Forms

boundary="------------824EE15DC782F86264AC0BC2"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.--------------
824EE15DC782F86264AC0BC2

A sincere thanks to all for the help....

--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon

"When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane

--------------824EE15DC782F86264AC0BC2

name="flyh2o.vcf"

filename="flyh2o.vcf"

begin:vcard n:Leitheiser;Mike

adr:;;;Lake
Oswego;Oregon;;version:2.1email;internet:flyh2o@worldnet.att.netnote;quoted-printable:"When the trout are lost, smash the state."=0D=0ATom
McGuanefn:Mike Leitheiserend:vcard

--------------824EE15DC782F86264AC0BC2--

from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jan  6 08:15:56 2000

Subject: Re: Node spacing

In a message dated 1/5/00 8:17:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
flytyr@southshore.com writes:

All the Grangers that I've seen have 3 x 3 spacing.

Don Burns

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 08:21:01 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:21:23 -0600

Subject: Re: H-I rod

That looks to be a pretty OLD Monty, not an H-I, due to the stepped
downfemale ferrule, and multiple intermediates.

The H-I I have looks to be 
from the 1940-1950 era, due to the reelseat/grip, as it's similar to others 
from this time. The reel seat has amarbled plastic filler.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: H-I rod

George,check this url:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-
cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230872810Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
haspartof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of
sixstripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:34 PMSubject: Re: Ammonium
Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Jan  6 08:22:55 2000

Subject: Re: H-I rod

Reed,Is this one of the "African Steel Cane" rods H-I built?  I beleive 
theywere the only rods H-I rounded.  If so it's Calcutta (it appears to be soin
the pictures).  The two things that throw me (in the original noblerpost) is
the decal and not having a stamped inscription  on the reel seat.I didn't think
these were built much after 1920 or so.  Please correct anymisinformation
as I'm working 
from memory (scarry  huh?). Regards,Gary H.

At 05:53 AM 1/6/00 -0500, reed curry wrote:George,The H-I rod that is
rounded cane is the "Senate". I've seen them butnevercast one.Best
regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
haspartof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of
sixstripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jan  6 08:26:41 2000

Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:26:33 -0600

Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate

Thanks for the reply,Found good information in George Mauerer's and Ray
Gould's books.Has anyone using this process had any problem with corrosion
of the heatstrip or wires.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Mark Lang wrote:

Tony and list,Also I remember reading (Mauer book?) about this, but I believe
that abox oven withheat strips were used.  Can a heat gun oven also be used
with this materialand if sowhat is the process?

Mark

Tony Spezio  01/05/00 02:34PM >>>Sent this yesterday but did not see it
posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jan  6 08:46:52 2000

0000

Subject: Re: H-I rod

Not all of the African Steel Vines were rounded.  I have a butt andpartial tip
which are hexagonal.  The "African Steel Vine"is stamped in the butt cap and
is not on the rod shaft.Ralph

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 08:58:56 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:58:52 -0600

Subject: Re: H-I rod

This H-I is far more modern, that those old models. This is what
stumpedme.Mike Sinclair says he's not heard of this one either ! I sure wish
the namedecal wasn't missing ! I say decal, as there's no sign of inked script,
onlymissing varnish, where something was pulled off. Perhaps by
maskingtape, asit has been re wrapped.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: H-I rod

Not all of the African Steel Vines were rounded.  I have a butt andpartial tip
which are hexagonal.  The "African Steel Vine"is stamped in the butt cap and
is not on the rod shaft.Ralph

from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Jan  6 09:08:55 2000

Subject: Re: H-I rod

Sinclair's "restoration handbook" includes the "Senate" in the '30's, butnot
listed as '20's or '40's.  Says green wraps, gold trim with wide greenbands on
butt & mid, intermediates gold.Ed-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: H-I rod

That looks to be a pretty OLD Monty, not an H-I, due to the stepped

from Mackelvane@aol.com Thu Jan  6 10:18:54 2000

Subject: south bend thread

Hello everyone. I'm preparing to restore an old South Bend rod, and would like
to wrap the guides with thread that resembles the original. It's a mottled
black and white thread. Anyone know where I might locate a spoolor two?
Thanks.

Jeremy

from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Jan  6 11:35:43 2000

Subject: Carbonate Fuming

Tony's question concerning ammonium carbonate and concerns
forcorrosionetc. has got me thinkin'(which usually means trouble). I've been
fumingwood

screw cap big enough to stick a half culm into with some carbonate. I
wasplanning to make one for coloring wooden rod cases anyway. This
wouldseparate the coloring process 
from the heating process and associatedconcerns for fumes and corrosion.
Anyone else try "cold fuming" of cane?

Tom

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan  6 11:59:42 2000

10:04:10 PST

Subject: re: south bend thread

Jeremy,

You could try Belvoirdale at www.belvoirdale.com    They have elephantsilk in
the black/white jasper.  Here is what the website says regarding
sizing._________________________________________________________Jasper (mingled) thread sizes and use of sizes:-Size A is used for tip
sections and small and medium rods, oursize is 50/3.Size B is used for
medium butt and middle sctions and large rods,our size is 100/3
________________________________________________________________

What I have found is that the 100/3 is closest to size A and the 50/3 is
closest to size B which is precisely the opposite of the websitesuggestion. 
Hopefully this will help you obtain the size you want.

Chris---------- Original Text ----------

Hello everyone. I'm preparing to restore an old South Bend rod, and would like
to wrap the guides with thread that resembles the original. It's a mottled
black and white thread. Anyone know where I might locate a spoolor two?
Thanks.

Jeremy

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Jan  6 12:04:55 2000

Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id 
forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,

Subject: RE: Carbonate Fuming

Similarly to Tom's experience, during the warmest days this past
summer,Ifumed some picture frames I built out of red oak by placing them in
aplastic lidded bin, along with an open jar of pure amonia. After two days,the
wood had darkened 
from light tan to a reddish medium brown. Coldfumingof cane may work as
well.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 12:43 PM

Subject: Carbonate Fuming

Tony's question concerning ammonium carbonate and concerns

etc. has got me thinkin'(which usually means trouble). I'vebeen fuming wood

PVC Pipe with ascrew cap big enough to stick a half culm into with
somecarbonate. I wasplanning to make one for coloring wooden rod cases
anyway. This wouldseparate the coloring process 
from the heating process and associatedconcerns for fumes and corrosion.
Anyone else try "coldfuming" of cane?

Tom

from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Jan  6 12:26:01 2000

Subject: Re: paul young rods

Hi Chris,The thread number is 3715 silk by Belding Corticelli for the Paul
Youngrods.Ray----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: paul young rods

One thing I forgot to add: the wraps were finnished without
colorpreserver,which let them turn to a transparent golden-brown.Sorry. .

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 3:23 PM

Subject: paul young rods

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in hiscollection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, andwasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learned thefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715
or3517,Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though still
inbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make itspecial

I hope this helps someone.

from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Jan  6 12:44:23 2000

Subject: Re: Setting Forms

Hi Mike,There was an article published in the Planing Form issue #26 Mar/Apr
94explaining the setting of the form. If you have a fax I could send you
acopy.Ray----- Original Message -----

Subject: Setting Forms

Finally have form.  Don't have depth gage, do have mic and dialcaliper. 
Searched Rodmakers archive for an article I think I saw in thepast that
decribed using a known "round" (aka drill bit) and a littlemath to set the
depth/taper.  Could anyone give me a pointer to this?Also, any advice on
setting form would be appreciated, ie. work fromthick to thin or vice versa? 
Thought the article in question wasoriginally on Chris Bogarts site, but can't,
find it now.

--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon

"When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane

from ctracy@ckan.com Thu Jan  6 12:48:15 2000

(EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:20:48 -0600

Subject: Observations 
from a first time splitter . . .

I'm in the middle of building my first bamboo fly rod.  I spent aboutthree
months gathering and making tools to produce my first rod.  Iordered
bamboo just before Christmas and spent some time practicingsplitting and
planing.  Now I've started work on my first rod.  Before Iget going, I want to
thank everyone on the list for their wonderfulinsights and suggestions so
far.

After Christmas, I embarked on the production of my first rod.  Duringthe
practice stage I had a lot of difficulty splitting the bamboo.  Mypractice
splits would inevitably waste away to nothing.  The biggestproblem seemed to
be that the split would jump grain on its journeythrough the node.  This
wasn't working out well, so I searched thearchives for different methods of
splitting.

Eventually I moved away 
from splitting the bamboo with a knife in a viseto splitting it by hand.  (I can't
remember who suggested this method,but I still want to send out my
heartfelt thanks.  I split with a knifedown to six one-inch pieces and then
move to my four inch Pony vise.

I clamp the first node of the bamboo in the vise and start the splitwith a
knife on the end.  After starting the split, I them pull bothsides apart with
my hands.  Since I have clamped the first node of thebamboo in the vise, the
split can not go past the vise.  If the splitstarts to wander as it works
towards the vise , I simply pull on thewide side of the split a little harder and
it straightens out veryeasily.

Once the split has reached the vise, I move the node outside the viseand re-
clamp the cane about a half inch behind the node.  Then I use asmall
screwdriver to "guide" the split through the node as straight aspossible.

Once the split is through the node, I move the cane down to the nextnode in
the vise and start the procedure all over again.  I've beengetting constantly
even splits around 3/16 - 1/4 inch wide.  I almostfeel that I can split it
narrower if needed.  Again, I'm not sure whorecommended this method, but it
works like a dream!!

Another thing I've learned it that bamboo is SHARP!!  I know that thelist has
had discussions about Kevlar gloves and such, but I guess itjust didn't
register with me.  I didn't wear gloves on my first attemptat this method and
still bare the marks to prove it.  Since then, I'vegone to a pair of TIG welding
gloves.  Now the gloves get the razor thincuts in them, not me!

I'm sure that I have a lot more to learn, but so far, I'm having a blastin the
learning process.  Again, thanks to everyone here for all thesuggestions.

from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jan  6 12:50:37 2000

0500

Subject: RE: Lie-Nelson Plane 

I too am far 
from an expert (2 rods), but I have a Stanley with a .005 by3/4inch groove
that I really like. For the last few passes on my last rod I settheblade to be
just within the edge of the outer part of the groove (theplaningform side, not
the plane sole side). This way I could set my forms to thedocumented
settings (or you could adjust for .001 or so), but would not getcaught up in
the form when planing. Prior to the last few passes I had thebladeset higher
into the groove and I think the groove helped make the cut level.Then I went
to the edge as mentioned above. 

I am getting a plane grooved at .003 X 3/4 inch so there will be less of
aspacebetween the top part of the groove and where the blade is when I do
thefinalfew passes. I am not sure if this will make any difference, but having
less"play area" due to the groove depth may give more accurate results
(I'llsee). Icertainly don't think it will be worse. 

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with or without a groove (my
firstrodwas without the groove and it turned out just fine). I just now prefer
it...

Andy

ps mines a standard angle-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane 

nobler wrote:

Hi Folks:

After looking at the Lie-Nelson web site I need some guidance on
planeselection. They list two plane designs, a Low Angle and a
Standardplanes.Frank

Although I'm far 
from an expert, if this is going to be your ONLYplane,I would recommend that
you get the standard adjustable throat plane,without thegroove.  The LN is a
modern well-made version of the plane rodmakershave beenusing for
generations.  then again, if this is going to be your only plane, Iwould
recommend getting 2 or 3 Stanley 9.5's for about the same money.

But if you get two or more, get one with the groove, and one without.When
the grooved plane is used correctly, it does cut down a little onsharpening,
especially for those who are new to planing bamboo.  If youget onlythe
grooved plane, you have to either set the forms intentionally small, ordevise
some way of removing the final .0005 - .003 inches that remainsaboveyour
forms.

Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Jan  6 13:30:14 2000

Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id 
forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,

Subject: RE: Observations 
from a first time splitter . . .

Chuck,

This fabulous system of splitting should be attributed to Mr Sean
Moran.Heexplained it to me last year by telephone and I then posted the
informationon the list. It is one of the best tips I've ever received on this list
andam thankful to Sean for sharing it. Here's a summary of his technique
asposted last year:

Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly share histechnique, I had written up my
take on how hedescribed it. So, to paraphrase the master....

Forget the knife in the vise. In fact, you only needthe knife to start the split.
The splitting is donewith your bare hands (actually, wear gloves.  I didn'tthe
other night and my hands are sliced up today.)

ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES, NEVER THIRDS.

1. split the culm in half and then quarters as youusually do.2. knock out the
damns.3. mount a strip into your workbench's woodworkingvise with about a
foot sticking out the end. If youdon't have a woodworking vise, you'll need to
rigsomething up, perhaps with a small bench vise. Youwant to have a way to
hold the strip, enamel side up,in place so that both your hands are free.4.
using a knife, start a split exactly in the centerand perfectly perpendicular
to the strip.5. once the strip is a few inches down the strip (infact, I needed
to get the split past the first node),put aside the knife and continue the split
by pullingthe two sides of the culm away 
from each other usingyour hands.6. now here's the really neat part: if you
pull apartwith equal force using both hands, the split willlikely travel down the
middle. If it does begin towander: hold the smaller strip facing straight
out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and bend only thefatter part away 
from the split. The split willimmediately travel back down the middle.7. Split
halves into halves, etc. For tip strips, Ihad no problem getting down to .20 ".
In fact, youcould easily go smaller if you want. The problem willnot be the
splitting, it will be having enough left ofthe strips to work with!

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:59 PM

Subject: Observations 
from a first time splitter . . .

I'm in the middle of building my first bamboo fly rod.  I spent aboutthree
months gathering and making tools to produce my first rod.  Iordered
bamboo just before Christmas and spent some time practicingsplitting and
planing.  Now I've started work on my firstrod.  Before Iget going, I want to
thank everyone on the list for their wonderfulinsights and suggestions so
far.

After Christmas, I embarked on the production of my first rod.  Duringthe
practice stage I had a lot of difficulty splitting the bamboo.  Mypractice
splits would inevitably waste away to nothing.  The biggestproblem seemed to
be that the split would jump grain on its journeythrough the node.  This
wasn't working out well, so I searched thearchives for different methods of
splitting.

Eventually I moved away 
from splitting the bamboo with aknife in a viseto splitting it by hand.  (I can't
remember who suggested this method,but I still want to send out my
heartfelt thanks.  I splitwith a knifedown to six one-inch pieces and then
move to my four inch Pony vise.

I clamp the first node of the bamboo in the vise and start the splitwith a
knife on the end.  After starting the split, I them pull bothsides apart with
my hands.  Since I have clamped the first node of thebamboo in the vise, the
split can not go past the vise.  If the splitstarts to wander as it works
towards the vise , I simply pull on thewide side of the split a little harder and
it straightens out veryeasily.

Once the split has reached the vise, I move the node outside the viseand re-
clamp the cane about a half inch behind the node.  Then I use asmall
screwdriver to "guide" the split through the node as straight aspossible.

Once the split is through the node, I move the cane down to the nextnode in
the vise and start the procedure all over again.  I've beengetting constantly
even splits around 3/16 - 1/4 inch wide.  I almostfeel that I can split it
narrower if needed.  Again, I'm not sure whorecommended this method, but it
works like a dream!!

Another thing I've learned it that bamboo is SHARP!!  I know that thelist has
had discussions about Kevlar gloves and such, but I guess itjust didn't
register with me.  I didn't wear gloves on myfirst attemptat this method and
still bare the marks to prove it.  Since then, I'vegone to a pair of TIG welding
gloves.  Now the gloves get therazor thincuts in them, not me!

I'm sure that I have a lot more to learn, but so far, I'mhaving a blastin the
learning process.  Again, thanks to everyone here for all thesuggestions.

from dpfitch@collins.rockwell.com Thu Jan  6 14:00:25 2000

2000 14:00:18 -0600

gatekeeper.collins.rockwell.com via smap (V4.2)

5-20-1999))  id8625685E.006DDCBE ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:59:59 -0600

Subject: Re: Workbench top.

Noted a number of different approaches being offered to making aworkbench
andthought I'd share mine.  The few of you on the list that know me, know
that I'mmore obsessive than frugal.  So if you're one of the members of our
craftthattakes pride building everything at the lowest possible cost, you
mightwant totrash this now!   Anyway the following might be another
approach/sourcetobuilding a workbench(s) with storage provisions if you live
in/near a largemetro area and you want/are willing to spend some extra
money--tosupport thelocal economy!  Although my source for product is in
No VA, I'm sure thereareother companies doing similar things across the US. 
Glad to share thename/directions to the distributor in VA, but you have to
visit thewarehouseand pick out  what you want.

There's this  wholesale cabinet distributor in No VA that
sellsrejected/excesscabinets and countertops at about 15-25 cents on the
dollar.  Most of themerchandise has some cosmetic flaw, or may have been
installed by acontractorand then removed because the owner changed "her"
mind.  Some of thestuff is newand in perfect condition (such as discontinued
styles).  Sometimes, theremay beenough of a style to build a kitchen or two-
-or workshop--in the samestyle!   Ifound the distributor when I was looking
for a couple of wall cabinets formygarage and a salesman at the local Home
Depot told me that he'd see whatthisdistributor had for the garage before he
bought anything new 
from HD oranyoneelse!

I went to the distributor and found what I wanted for the garage.
Fortunately(or unfortunately), the warehouse had a lot of other kitchen-type
cabinetsandtops (this distributor does a very large wholesale business).  I
saw amaplecabinet (Shaker design with three big drawers the width of the
cabinet)that Ithought would be a perfect base for a small workbench; cabinet
was36"Wx24"Dx34"H).  But, then I discovered that the cabinet had been sold
momentsbefore Iarrived to someone else.  The warehouse manager
suggested I settle foranynumber of oak or cherry cabinets he had, but I said
I really liked the maple.He finally told me that "Yard Sale" merchandise
arrived daily (
from othercompany warehouses on the East coast) and to check back
periodically.  SoIcalled on a weekly basis till he got a shipment of the style of
maple Iliked.

Then it was like being a kid in a candy store.  I ended up some wallcabinets

2 sides(normally used for a kitchen island). All in the maple style I liked. 
Iboltedthree of the four base cabinets together, reinforced the bottoms,
andinstalledmedium size locking wheels at each corner.  On all of that, I
mounted a 3ftx8ft x 1.5 inch maple butcher block top (Bally) that I also
found at the yardsale that had a discoloration in one place on the top.  Total
cost was justover$300 and total time to construct was about 3 hours (once I
got all thestuffhome).  End result is a flat/durable/large top, lots of
functional storagethatis accessible 
from either side of the bench, and a very stable (but mobile)workbench. 
Later, I installed a Record cabinet vise on one of the sides.

Also found a 24x 60 inch  butcher block top at the warehouse (also
dirtcheap)and put it on the 4th cabinet..  Oh yeah (now, starting to get
obsessive), Igota 3ft x 6 ft top ($40 at yard sale) that I mounted on a base
cabinet that'snormally used for double kitchen sinks.  All the cabinets are on
wheels andthetops are the same height (35 inches).

As suggested, this isn't the cheapest way to go, but the time it took
wasminimal compared with the results.  I'm sure there are other
wholesalecabinetdistributors that  "yard sale" excess cabinets.  I lucked out
with a nameanddirections 
from a Home Depot salesman, but the there are allot ofwholesalecabinet
distributors in most metro area Yellow pages.   Another source
forusedcabinets (since discovered) are cabinet makers.  Often, they
removecabinets(resale property) to install the ones they just built.

Finally, I should mention that I used all the bench top space I "built," 
toconvince my wife that I needed a larger portion of the basement for
theshopthan she had originally planned.

Pat Tumblin  on 12/31/99 08:57:35 AM

Please respond to if6were9@bellsouth.net

Subject:  Re: Workbench top.

I'm not sure what is used on the floor of a dry van or reefer trailer,
butflatbed trailers have a South American wood on them called Apitong. 
Thewood I'veseen in the floors of dry vans looks to be the same thing, but I
don't knowifit is.  This is a very tough wood, but I don't think it would be very
wellsuited for building a table.  If you use it green (the only way I've ever
seenit delivered to an end user), it will warp and twist enough that it may
pullyour table apart at worst, or make it unlevel at least.  The people that
usethis wood store it tightly bound until the moisture content falls to
acertainlevel before installing it to avoid having it pull loose 
from it's fasteners.Even after it's cured, if it's not anchored to something
substantial, it willwarp up when it gets wet.    If memory serves me
correctly, when used fortrailer flooring, it's an inch thick by 4 inches wide,
ship lapped and leftrough finished on the two wide sides.  The other problem
with using thiswood

manufacturing facility, the only place I know that it is available isthroughlocal
trailer dealers in (very expensive) pre-cut kits as a replacement foraworn
floor.As for good table top material, I've found that an old solid wood
doormakesthe best work surface for the money.  I picked up the three I'm
using at ajunkstore for $10 each.

Pat

McFall David wrote:

I have heard that the shops who finish the interiors of semi-trailers us
aflooring which come as prefabbed hardwood.  It might be
worthwhileinvestigating this.  Just a suggestion as I have never followed up
on this.

Regards

Dave M

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan  6 14:26:38 2000

12:31:10 PST

Subject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post regardingSean
Moran's method because that was a great explanation of how to hand splita
culm.

But.......

we doing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think of
splittingas opposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain and sawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuity of grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(down the middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to 

finish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could do
whatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as if it is
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing wouldreduce
useable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwasted with a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Jan  6 14:58:13 2000

PAA21578;

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")?  If
beveling is"ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplit aculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think ofsplitting
asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grain
andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from ctracy@ckan.com Thu Jan  6 15:04:53 2000

(EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:37:32 -0600

Subject: Re: Observations 
from a first time splitter . . .

Richard,

Thanks for giving Sean the credit.  It is truly well deserved!!

Chuck

Richard Nantel wrote:

Chuck,

This fabulous system of splitting should be attributed to Mr Sean
Moran.Heexplained it to me last year by telephone and I then posted
theinformationon the list. It is one of the best tips I've ever received on this
list andam thankful to Sean for sharing it. Here's a summary of his technique
asposted last year:

[snipped to preserve bandwidth]

from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan  6 15:06:26 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:04:14 -0600

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain of thecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you are onlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split andready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.   Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in the
strip,itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of the strip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you can seethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps in thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
some cases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
have butvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
notonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of continuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----

Subject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to hand splitaculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

finish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as
ifit>is superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 16:28:44 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:19:45 -0600

"Ed Riddle" 

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

Hi Ed,

Yes, so far the results are all I could have asked for. I won't know forsure,
until the repairs are tested "on the water", stp, but this gluebehaves very
well. I had several sections that were partially separated. Istuck long pins
across each section, at either end of the piece, and ranwater all over them. I
then used a swab to be sure all the surfaces in thejoints were wetted. After
waiting 10 minutes, or so, I blotted any excesswater 
from the outside, and ran a line of the Pro-Bond glue, down
eachsurface/space. Using a swab again. I made sure the glue wetted all
thecaneinside. I then removed the pins (3 - at each end), and wiped the
excessawayinto a trash basket. The tip sections were bound with multiple
loops ofsmall rubber bands, and rolled, or slipped down the section, so that
theywere bound about every 2 - inches. Excess glue was again wiped away.

The butt, and mid sections were bound with a strong cord, much as
theywouldwith a regular binder. Not having a binder, I devised good tension
bypulling the cord 
from under a lead weight.

All sections were checked for straightness, and allowed to lay across alarge,
open waste basket. Within an hour or so, I could see the glue alongeach joint
starting to foam a little.

The next day, all was set, and although the 24 hours was not up, I removedall
the binding. After 24 hours, these were scraped/sanded, and look justgreat.
A good flexing indicates nothing is coming loose...... yet, at least!

The glue is a clear honey color, and it appears that a new rod glued up
willshow little of any glue line.

GMA

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Pro-Bond adhesive

George:I printed out your 12/30 msg., re your test on some H-I's &
Monty's,must'vedumped the on-line copy or I'd attached.  What's the
verdict?Others should appreciate, too.TIA.Ed

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 16:30:40 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:21:39 -0600

Subject: Re: paul young rods

Yes, that's the name on the spools I got 
from Paul. I wish I had boughtmore, and it was only 50 cents a spool !

Hind sight !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: paul young rods

Hi Chris,The thread number is 3715 silk by Belding Corticelli for the Paul
Youngrods.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski,
MD 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 5:37 PMSubject: RE: paul young rods

One thing I forgot to add: the wraps were finnished without
colorpreserver,which let them turn to a transparent golden-brown.Sorry. .

-----Original Message-----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 3:23 PM

Subject: paul young rods

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in hiscollection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, andwasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learnedthefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715
or3517,Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though still
inbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make itspecial

I hope this helps someone.

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 16:32:40 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:23:39 -0600

Subject: Re: Carbonate Fuming

Am I mistaken, or is the fuming not also supposed to be part of the
heattempering process, that makes cane more resilient ?

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: Carbonate Fuming

Similarly to Tom's experience, during the warmest days this pastsummer,
Ifumed some picture frames I built out of red oak by placing them in aplastic
lidded bin, along with an open jar of pure amonia. After two days,the wood
had darkened 
from light tan to a reddish medium brown. Coldfumingof cane may work as
well.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 12:43 PM

Subject: Carbonate Fuming

Tony's question concerning ammonium carbonate and concerns

etc. has got me thinkin'(which usually means trouble). I'vebeen fuming wood

PVC Pipe with ascrew cap big enough to stick a half culm into with
somecarbonate. I wasplanning to make one for coloring wooden rod cases
anyway. This wouldseparate the coloring process 
from the heating process and associatedconcerns for fumes and corrosion.
Anyone else try "coldfuming" of cane?

Tom

from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan  6 16:38:35 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com for ;Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:36:23 -0600

Subject: Re: Following the grain

David,Again, I have to disagree... in part at least.  If you are
bevelling"properly" straightened strips of "split" cane, then would it not
followthat the grain was "straight" with the splits, therefore when beveled,
thegrain would be somewhat held in tact.  Now, this would also depend
onwhatkind of beveler you used... a dickerson style takes, theoretically, the
sameabout of material 
from both sides of the strip a the same time, just asalternate side hand
planing would do.  Straight bit type bevelers can beused either way, by either
taking the entire taper out of one side (thuscutting across more of the grain
than the Dickerson style) or by startingthe taper on one side of the strip,
then finishing it on the other.  Thatremoves equal amounts 
from both sides of the strip, again, pretty muchkeeping the power fibers in
tact.  The Millward Beveler, which I have neverseen, but I "think" I understand
the prinicpal of, does much like theDickerson beveler, and takes, again
theoretically, the same amount of cane

from both sides of the strip, therefore, like the Dickerson, leaves thepower
fibers down the center of a properly straightened split, in tact.On the other
hand, a sawn strip already has the grain running across it(well, straight with
it in some places, across it at a slight angle inothers) and would just follow
the strip as cut.  Whether you were takingequal amounts of cane off of
either side, would make no difference... Youdon't have the powerfibers
running straight down the center of the strip tobegin with.Sorry, didn't mean
to make this so long, just couldn't think of ashorter way of explaning my
point.

Bob

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")?  If
beveling is"ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplitaculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think ofsplitting
asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grain
andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from fquinchat@locl.net Thu Jan  6 16:49:26 2000

corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02658; Thu, 6 Jan 2000
17:49:19 -0500

Subject: Re: Carbonate Fuming

Where can you buy pure amonia?

Dennis-----Original Message-----

Subject: RE: Carbonate Fuming

Similarly to Tom's experience, during the warmest days this pastsummer,
Ifumed some picture frames I built out of red oak by placing them in aplastic
lidded bin, along with an open jar of pure amonia. After two days,the wood
had darkened 
from light tan to a reddish medium brown. Coldfumingof cane may work as
well.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 12:43 PM

Subject: Carbonate Fuming

Tony's question concerning ammonium carbonate and concerns

etc. has got me thinkin'(which usually means trouble). I'vebeen fuming wood

PVC Pipe with ascrew cap big enough to stick a half culm into with
somecarbonate. I wasplanning to make one for coloring wooden rod cases
anyway. This wouldseparate the coloring process 
from the heating process and associatedconcerns for fumes and corrosion.
Anyone else try "coldfuming" of cane?

Tom

from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Jan  6 17:01:48 2000

Subject: Re: paul young rods

Hi Again,And another interesting thing is that the Antique gold 3715 silk is
exactlythe same thread used by E.C.Powell on many of his rods.ray-----
Original Message -----

Subject: Re: paul young rods

Yes, that's the name on the spools I got 
from Paul. I wish I had boughtmore, and it was only 50 cents a spool !

Hind sight !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Ray Gould" 

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 12:25 PMSubject: Re: paul young rods

Hi Chris,The thread number is 3715 silk by Belding Corticelli for the Paul
Youngrods.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski,
MD 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 5:37 PMSubject: RE: paul young rods

One thing I forgot to add: the wraps were finnished without
colorpreserver,which let them turn to a transparent golden-brown.Sorry. .

-----Original Message-----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 3:23 PM

Subject: paul young rods

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in hiscollection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, andwasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learnedthefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715
or3517,Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though
stillinbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make
itspecial

I hope this helps someone.

from dpizza@access1.net Thu Jan  6 17:06:38 2000

(SMTPD32-5.01) id AFB96F0900D4; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:05:29 PDT

Subject: Nodeless

Hi !!!!! Like others I have been shadowing the list for some time gatheringinfo.
and collecting tools. I have decided to build nodeless exclusively fornow. My
question is this: Should I straighten (with heat) the "chopsticks"before I
square them up and then scarf and glue them or should I just split,square,
scarf, taper, glue, and then straighten the blank as an assembly ??The
problem I am finding is that the "chopsticks" have a bow in themwhichmakes
the tips not flat with the middle when viewed 
from the side. (Enameldown and pith side up )

Any help would be appreciated.

TIA

David

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 17:47:19 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:38:20 -0600

Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane

This talk of which plane(s) one should get is getting a little confusing,when it
comes to numbers. Is it the 60 1/2, or a 9 1/2, or what ? I'mspeaking of the
#1 basic plane that's used the most. I understand about the#212 scraper,
but not the proper plane.

Also, are the Lie-Nelson blades as good as the Hock blades ? Good toolsareso
important, it's silly to not be sure !

Thanks,

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane

nobler wrote:

Hi Folks:

After looking at the Lie-Nelson web site I need some guidance
onplaneselection. They list two plane designs, a Low Angle and a
Standardplanes.Frank

Although I'm far 
from an expert, if this is going to be your ONLYplane,I would recommend that
you get the standard adjustable throat plane,without thegroove.  The LN is a
modern well-made version of the plane rodmakershavebeenusing for
generations.  then again, if this is going to be your onlyplane, Iwould
recommend getting 2 or 3 Stanley 9.5's for about the same money.

But if you get two or more, get one with the groove, and onewithout.When
the grooved plane is used correctly, it does cut down a little onsharpening,
especially for those who are new to planing bamboo.  If youget onlythe
grooved plane, you have to either set the forms intentionally small,ordevise
some way of removing the final .0005 - .003 inches that remainsaboveyour
forms.

Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jan  6 17:52:35 2000

Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:52:26 -0800

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

nobler wrote:

Hi Ed,

Yes, so far the results are all I could have asked for. I won't know forsure,
until the repairs are tested "on the water", stp, but this gluebehaves very
well.

George,Let us know what happens when you straighten these sections
withheat.I'm curious as tot he ability of this glue to withstand heat
straightening.Plus, if you have glue lines, this stuff looks bad to me.  The
foam is a sortoflight tan that turns grayish upon filing.  I've never used it on
a rod becauseof the short working time, but I did use it on a coupla hexagonal
rod casesImade.So please keep us abreast of the good things you're finding
with thisglue.

Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan  6 18:02:26 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:00:14 -0600

Subject: Re: Carbonate Fuming

Dennis,You don't want pure ammonia.  Only form you can get that in
inAnhydrousAmmonia, if I am not mistaken.  Very dangerous... Boiling temp
on it issomewhere in the neighborhood of minus 325*farenhiet.  5% or so
hydrousammonia will work for toning, and you can get that just about
anywhere...hardware store, or maybe even walmart.

-----Original Message-----

tom@cet-inc.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Subject: Re: Carbonate Fuming

Where can you buy pure amonia?

Dennis-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:08 PMSubject: RE: Carbonate Fuming

Similarly to Tom's experience, during the warmest days this pastsummer,
Ifumed some picture frames I built out of red oak by placing them in aplastic
lidded bin, along with an open jar of pure amonia. After twodays,the wood had
darkened 
from light tan to a reddish medium brown. Coldfumingof cane may work as
well.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 12:43 PM

Subject: Carbonate Fuming

Tony's question concerning ammonium carbonate and concerns

etc. has got me thinkin'(which usually means trouble). I'vebeen fuming wood

PVC Pipe with ascrew cap big enough to stick a half culm into with
somecarbonate. I wasplanning to make one for coloring wooden rod cases
anyway. This wouldseparate the coloring process 
from the heating process and associatedconcerns for fumes and corrosion.
Anyone else try "coldfuming" of cane?

Tom

from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan  6 18:20:03 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

I agree with you Harry. If you have glue lines, as I did on my first rod, the
Polyurethane glue leaves a bubbly gray filler. I used Gorilla Glue. I like the lines
that I glued up with Epon better. I know we should not be talking about which
glue lines look better, but it is still a reality for the novice like me. Even into
rod two I feel that I am still practicing. I swore to a buddie the other day that
no one would even see a rod before number 5 or 6 is done.I must say though,
that the polyurethane's strength and ease of use makes this a tough
decision.

Plus, if you have glue lines, this stuff looks bad to me.  The foam is a sort
oflight tan that turns grayish upon filing.Harry
Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 18:21:13 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:21:39 -0600

Subject: Fw: Pro-Bond adhesive

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

So far I have no visible glue lines. I only have one tip, and one midsection that
will need straightening, and I'll report on how this goes.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" 

Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 5:51 PMSubject: Re: Pro-
Bond adhesive

nobler wrote:

Hi Ed,

Yes, so far the results are all I could have asked for. I won't knowforsure,
until the repairs are tested "on the water", stp, but this gluebehaves very
well.

George,Let us know what happens when you straighten these
sectionswithheat.I'm curious as tot he ability of this glue to withstand
heatstraightening.Plus, if you have glue lines, this stuff looks bad to me. 
The foam is asort oflight tan that turns grayish upon filing.  I've never used
it on a rodbecauseof the short working time, but I did use it on a coupla
hexagonal rodcases Imade.So please keep us abreast of the good things
you're finding withthisglue.

Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Jan  6 18:25:37 2000

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

Thanks George:I'm with Harry, please keep us posted.Ed-----Original Message-
----

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

nobler wrote:

Hi Ed,

Yes, so far the results are all I could have asked for. I won't know forsure,
until the repairs are tested "on the water", stp, but this gluebehaves very
well.

George,Let us know what happens when you straighten these sections
withheat.I'm curious as tot he ability of this glue to withstand heat
straightening.Plus, if you have glue lines, this stuff looks bad to me.  The
foam is asort oflight tan that turns grayish upon filing.  I've never used it on
a rodbecauseof the short working time, but I did use it on a coupla hexagonal
rod casesImade.So please keep us abreast of the good things you're finding
withthisglue.

Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Jan  6 18:41:19 2000

Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id 
forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,

Subject: RE: Carbonate Fuming

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

I found it at my local pharmacy in the cleaning products section for about$2.
Very potent stuff so be careful.

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 5:56 PM

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Carbonate Fuming

Where can you buy pure amonia?

Dennis-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:08 PMSubject: RE: Carbonate Fuming

Similarly to Tom's experience, during the warmest days thispast summer,
Ifumed some picture frames I built out of red oak by placing them in aplastic
lidded bin, along with an open jar of pure amonia.After two days,the wood had
darkened 
from light tan to a reddish mediumbrown. Cold fumingof cane may work as
well.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 12:43 PM

Subject: Carbonate Fuming

Tony's question concerning ammonium carbonate and concerns

etc. has got me thinkin'(which usually means trouble). I'vebeen fuming wood

PVC Pipe with ascrew cap big enough to stick a half culm into with
somecarbonate. I wasplanning to make one for coloring wooden rod cases
anyway.This wouldseparate the coloring process 
from the heating process andassociatedconcerns for fumes and corrosion.
Anyone else try "coldfuming" of cane?

Tom

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan  6 19:01:56 2000

16:56:26 PST

Subject: Test

Hello???

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan  6 19:04:16 2000

14:26:59 PST

Subject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as you say
once they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweeping bends are due to a
twisting action rather then a direct side to side action.  If the culm was
initially split in half, and thus the grain is followed to that point as I said
previously, or if it were split further into quarters or sixths, then the grain
has been followed up to that point.  Sawing 3/16" strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the grain.  I think the
significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmore due to
sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to identify the twist in the
culm and then following the split line.  Just my opinion.

Chris

---------- Original Text ----------

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain of thecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you are onlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split andready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.   Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in the
strip,itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of the strip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you can seethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps in thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
some cases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
have butvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
notonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of continuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----

Subject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to hand splitaculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

finish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan  6 19:05:39 2000

14:38:19 PST

Subject: Re: Following the grain

The Bellinger beveler's I have seen cut down a strip that has already been
split and straightened etc., so the character of the grain has already been
established with the strip preparation processes.  The cutters then follow
the center of the prepared strip in forming the taper of the strip.  The
continuity of the grain is based on the strip preparation prior to beveling,
which takes us back to sawing vs. splitting the individual strips prior to
beveling.

Chris---------- Original Text ----------

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")?  If
beveling is "ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplit aculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think ofsplitting
asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grain
andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan  6 19:05:50 2000

15:19:05 PST

Subject: RE:  Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as you say
once they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweeping bends are due to a
twisting action rather then a direct side to side action.  If the culm was
initially split in half, and thus the grain is followed to that point as I said
previously, or if it were split further into quarters or sixths, then the grain
has been followed up to that point.  Sawing 3/16" strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the grain.  I think the
significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmore due to
sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to identify the twist in the
culm and then following the split line.  Just my opinion.

Chris

------------------Original text

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain of thecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you are onlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split andready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.   Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in the
strip,itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of the strip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you can seethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps in thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
some cases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
have butvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
notonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of continuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----

Subject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to hand splitaculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

finish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan  6 19:07:05 2000

15:20:23 PST

Subject: RE:  Following the grain

The Bellinger beveler's I have seen cut down a strip that has already been
split and straightened etc., so the character of the grain has already been
established with the strip preparation processes.  The cutters then follow
the center of the prepared strip in forming the taper of the strip.  The
continuity of the grain is based on the strip preparation prior to beveling,
which takes us back to sawing vs. splitting the individual strips prior to
beveling.

Chris------------------Original text

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")?  If
beveling is "ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplit aculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think ofsplitting
asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grain
andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from channer@netscape.net Thu Jan  6 19:15:51 2000

mailer(M3.3.1.96) onFri Jan  7 01:15:48 GMT 2000

Subject: Re: [Following the grain]

"CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL"  wrote:This is a new subject, and I'm not
referring to Richard's post regardingSean Moran's method because that was
a great explanation of how to handsplit a culm.

But.......

we

doing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think ofsplittingas
opposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grain and
sawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior forcontinuity

of grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it to go(down the
middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to 

to finish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could do
whatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifit

is superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing wouldreduce

useable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwasted

with a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

ChrisChris;If I had a bandsaw, I would use a pin for a fence so that the cut
wouldfollowa split edge, thus maintaining the integrity of the grain(I think),
but, Idon't have a bandsaw and a table saw seems less than ideal
forthis.Someday myboss will have his bandsaw out and I can give it a try.
Table saws arenotorious for kicking back crooked pieces with great force
and a strip ofbamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

____________________________________________________________________Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today
athttp://webmail.netscape.com.

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jan  6 19:45:55 2000

Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:45:43 -0800

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

bob maulucci wrote:

Even into rod two I feel that I am still practicing. I swore to a buddie theother
day that no one would even see a rod before number 5 or 6 is done. Imust
say though, that the polyurethane's strength and ease of use makesthisa
tough decision.

Bob,I'm convinced you're better off with Epon, Nyatex, Urac, or
evenResorcinol.  Though I've seen at least one nice rod (Joe K's, I think,
atSRG??) glued with urethane glues, I'm more than a little hesitant.  As
farasglue lines, I suspect you see far more than anyone else does.Harry

from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan  6 19:52:25 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:50:06 -0600

Subject: Re: Following the grain

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_018C_01BF587F.5F1EAD00"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_018C_01BF587F.5F1EAD00

Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting, =and
they way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off =the band
saw.  I think I understand what you are saying about indexing =the saw cut
off of the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I =didn't attach it so just
click on it and it'll give you the pic)
=http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg  andyou'll
=see that the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, very
=fast crook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most
=severe sweep I have seen at a node).  If you were to index, somehow, so
=that you cut the strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it
=would take much longer than splitting, and you would still have to
=straighten the strip.  My understanding is that those who saw do so to
=drastically cut down the preparation time of a strip for planing, or =

I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing straight through =this
section would have definitely made a number of "cross cuts" to the =power
fibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips, that is =how they
were done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of =sorts, to insure
accurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not =have to be
straightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to saw, the
=purpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips.  If you
=index, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing strips =that
would look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or =time at all. 
Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, =especially if trying to
"follow the grain" or follow the split, would =take much longer than just
splitting the culm, and you would still have =to straighten.Also, if you look at
the lower strip in the picture, it is a hand =split, straightened strip out of
the same culm.  The only difference =between this and the only sawn strips I
have ever seen is that this one =maintained the integrity of the power fibers
and the sawn strips did =not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just
confused as to =why anyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to
the time and =trouble to follow the grain.  Splitting is EASY in comparason to
trying =to cut along the grain.

Bob-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as you =

once they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of those =

bends are due to a twisting action rather then a direct side to side =

If the culm was initially split in half, and thus the grain is followed =

that point as I said previously, or if it were split further into =

sixths, then the grain has been followed up to that point.  Sawing =

strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the =

think the significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods was =

due to sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to =

the twist in the culm and then following the split line.  Just my =opinion.

Chris

---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM:

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
=astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain of =thecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you are =onlycorrecting
by 2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split =andready to bevel,
look down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.   =Just

notstraightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in the
strip,=itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of the =strip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, =oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you can =seethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps in thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
some =cases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
have =butvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
not =only

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I =feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of =continuousfiber than sawing, and it is
even possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers even =betweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not
do this.  With splitting, for the =greatestpart, you are maintaing the same
line of fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
=regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to hand =split aculm.

But.......

aren't  wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think of
=splittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain =andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to =go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
=pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order =to

saw tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
=dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as
=ifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing would
=reduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

------=_NextPart_000_018C_01BF587F.5F1EAD00

Chris,

splitting, and they way this gentleman did it, they were very =

saying about indexing the saw cut off of the strip, but look at this =

(url only, I didn't attach it so just click on it and it'll give you the =pic) http=

and you'll see that the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very =

so that you cut the strip along this line, then it would seem to me that =

would take much longer than splitting, and you would still have to =

down the preparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, =

straight through this section would have definitely made a number of =

cuts" to the power fibers.... and the only time I have ever seen =

strips, that is how they were done, not following the grain, but using a =

"fence" of sorts, to insure accurate and repeatable cuts =

that did not have to be straightened.

sawing strips that would look just like splits and would not eliminate =

especially if trying to "follow the grain" or follow the =

take much longer than just splitting the culm, and you would still have =

straighten.

look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a hand split, straightened =

strips I have ever seen is that this one maintained the integrity of the =

fibers and the sawn strips did not.

anyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time and =

the grain.

Bob-----Original Message-----From:=

RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu=<RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu=

=

I said previously, or if it were split further into quarters or =

=

1/6/00 =

see =

=

=

imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not have =

=

=

=

conclusion, splitting retains a much greater amount of =

than sawing, and it is even possible that, in some extreme =

strips could eliminate continuous lines of power fibers even =

<RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu=

=

guiding the split however we want in order to get even strips =

=

I =

=

------=_NextPart_000_018C_01BF587F.5F1EAD00--

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jan  6 20:04:00 2000

"'mcdowellc@lanecc.edu '" 

Subject: RE: Following the grain

I never have understood the big deal about this since nodeless rods
clearlywork so well. You can't interrupt the fibers any more than that. And
manyofthe great rods of the past were sawed and/or milled, as Terry
Ackland haspointed out. Making a rod with hand tools only is a fine thing if
you enjoyit but the idea that it makes any difference to the rod sounds like
wishfulthinking to me. A lot like the way, when I'm feeling good and maybe put
onsome clothes I like, I feel a bit slimmer. But I'm always careful not toweigh
myself at times like that.

Barry

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")?  If
bevelingis "ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregarding
SeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to
handsplit aculm.

But.......

aren't  wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplitting asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
togo (downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by
alternatingpressure etc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto

saw tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we"
coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting
asif itis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Jan  6 20:40:07 2000

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

Hi All,As Bob knows I have used poly glues on all my rods and have heated,
bent and flexed rods and sections into a complete U shape, I have glued 2

4's together and beat them with a sledge, I have broken rod sections by
slowly bending them and in every case the wood failed before the glue. Ihave
had no glue lines unless I made a mistake in my planing. Just thought Iwould
let you know about my experiments.Joe

from oakmere@carol.net Thu Jan  6 20:50:23 2000

Subject: RE: Lie-Nelson Plane

Hi Folks:

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. If I am going to do
thisthen I am going to do it right, so it will be a Lie-Nelson plane with oneor
two additional blades. Consulting has been good.

Just finished redoing a Tonka Queen 7'9". Haven't cast it yet but it
looksgood, although one of the tips was about 18" inches short and is
acandidate for repair with another spliced tip as soon as I learn
andexperiment more with making strips and sections.

Thanks again for the input.

FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 
29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home)

from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Jan  6 20:50:24 2000

E-Mail VirusWallNT); Fri, 07 Jan 2000 10:47:49 +0800

(5.5.2650.21)

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Nodeless

Hi David,don't worry about the bow in the "chopsticks".  I build nodelessand
have discovered that any straightening performed before the blank
isassembled is a waste of time.  Good luck and let us know how you get on
with that all importantfirst rod.

Mike

David wrote>>>>>>>>>>

My question is this: Should I straighten (with heat) the "chopsticks"before I
square them up and then scarf and glue them or should I just split,square,
scarf, taper, glue, and then straighten the blank as an assembly ??The
problem I am finding is that the "chopsticks" have a bow in themwhichmakes
the tips not flat with the middle when viewed 
from the side. (Enameldown and pith side up )

Any help would be appreciated.

TIA

David

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 20:54:13 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:45:08 -0600

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

This is exactly why I used mostly Montague's to test the urethane glue. Iuse
such glues in other applications, so if they work for cane, they'll bemore than
sufficient. If not, I'll find out without the heart break of ahand made rod
separating !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

bob maulucci wrote:

Even into rod two I feel that I am still practicing. I swore to a buddietheother
day that no one would even see a rod before number 5 or 6 isdone.Imust say
though, that the polyurethane's strength and ease of usemakesthisa tough
decision.

Bob,I'm convinced you're better off with Epon, Nyatex, Urac, or
evenResorcinol.  Though I've seen at least one nice rod (Joe K's, I think,
atSRG??) glued with urethane glues, I'm more than a little hesitant.  As
farasglue lines, I suspect you see far more than anyone else does.Harry

from morten@flash.net Thu Jan  6 21:01:01 2000

"'mcdowellc@lanecc.edu '" ,"'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: Re:
Following the grain

Kling, Barry W. wrote:

I never have understood the big deal about this since nodeless
rodsclearlywork so well. You can't interrupt the fibers any more than that.
And manyofthe great rods of the past were sawed and/or milled, as Terry
Acklandhaspointed out. Making a rod with hand tools only is a fine thing if you
enjoyit but the idea that it makes any difference to the rod sounds
likewishfulthinking to me. A lot like the way, when I'm feeling good and maybe
putonsome clothes I like, I feel a bit slimmer. But I'm always careful not
toweigh myself at times like that.

Barry

Well put!!Morten-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353
5725http://www.flash.net/~morten

from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Jan  6 21:01:13 2000

Subject: Sharp bamboo

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: [Following the grain]

strip ofbamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese Punji Stake.  IfI
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you,
askmeabout it.Ed

from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan  6 21:01:54 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:59:40 -0600

"'David W. Smith, Ph.D. '" ,

Subject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you are saying Barry, but here is my point, 
from a technicalstandpoint, about maintaining the integrity of the power
fibers as much asfeasibly possible.  Reducing the integrity of the power
fibers (cuttingacross them or at an angle to them) reducesThe resistance to
shear of the bamboo.  Bamboo, looked at in smallsections(and it is the small
sections that bend, making the whole bend) changesshape under shear
stress (casting).  The more power fibers you have intact,the less likely you
are to have failure during this deforamation of thecane.  I am not a nodeless
builder, and to be honest, have no desire tobuild nodeless.  did one, and it was
no less trouble than straightening afew nodes, and I am not knocking
nodeless.  Frankly, if the glue joint is agood one, it should be stronger than
the surrounding material, but,nodelessor not, if you start cutting across
power fibers between the nodes (which,you do not do building nodeless rods,
do you) then you are reducing theresistance to deformation, and in my logic
(notice I said MY logic... LOL)that makes a rod more suseptable to failure,
because it allows the cane tobe bent beyond what it was intended to bend
when "whoever" sat downwiththier slide rule, calculator, computer or graph
paper designing the taperbased on the Acceptable Shear Modulus or Elastic
modulus, upon which allformulas for calculating tapers are based on.   If we
change the shearstress and strain properties of the cane, by cutting across
the powerfibers, then we are just asking for trouble... not necessarily
failure, but

just my opinion...

Bob-----Original Message-----

Subject: RE: Following the grain

I never have understood the big deal about this since nodeless
rodsclearlywork so well. You can't interrupt the fibers any more than that.
And manyofthe great rods of the past were sawed and/or milled, as Terry
Acklandhaspointed out. Making a rod with hand tools only is a fine thing if you
enjoyit but the idea that it makes any difference to the rod sounds like
wishfulthinking to me. A lot like the way, when I'm feeling good and maybe put
onsome clothes I like, I feel a bit slimmer. But I'm always careful not toweigh
myself at times like that.

Barry

-----Original Message-----From: David W. Smith, Ph.D.

Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/6/00 3:02 PMSubject: Re:
Following the grain

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")?  If
bevelingis "ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregarding
SeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to
handsplit aculm.

But.......

aren't  wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplitting asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
togo (downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by
alternatingpressure etc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto

saw tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we"
coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting
asif itis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan  6 21:14:55 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:15:18 -0600

Subject: Re: Following the grain

I've yet to plane my first strip, but I've worked in wood most of my life.One
of the primary things you learn is that all woods grow with innerstresses,
and seldom is perfectly straight. Balsa, like cane, is relativelyfast growing. It
is not unusual to start with a 3" wide sheet, to get aperfectly straight strip
only 1.5" wide.

Cane is only different, in that you can straighten a strip that follows
itsnatural growth. When sawing, unless you can follow this natural
growth,maximum strength will not be achieved, as some of the natural
grainintegrity will be severed.

Some of you "older hats", with many rods under your belt, tell me if I'm
allwet, or not.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as
yousayonce they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting
action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in
half, and thus the grain is followed tothat point as I said previously, or if it
were split further into quartersorsixths, then the grain has been followed up
to that point.  Sawing 3/16"strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the grain.Ithink the significant
grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmoredue to sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to

the twist in the culm and then following the split line.  Just my opinion.

Chris

------------------Original textFrom: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM:

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain of thecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split andready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.   Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in the
strip,itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of the strip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps in thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
have butvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
notonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of continuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplitaculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jan  6 21:17:22 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Bob

I think that you have said it all. I tried sawing with a bandsaw onceand had
more spoiled cane than I ever have had by splitting.  Grantedsplitting cane, no
matter how it is done, is a difficult and technicalprocedure that only
experience and practice will over comeRalph

from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jan  6 21:30:27 2000

0000

,mcdowellc@lanecc.edu, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Following
the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jan  6 21:31:30 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Following the grain

right on!

from jcollier@siu.edu Thu Jan  6 21:35:12 2000

Subject: 60 degree tool

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, however the
60degree V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there any
otherwayto achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree file epoxied
toplywood.  I know it is possible to use a lathe bit when building woodenforms,
but will this work on metal?  All suggestions are greatlyappreciated!

John Collier

from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jan  6 22:03:54 2000

Subject: Round Rod

I got the rod out and looked at it closer. It doesnot appear to be Calcutta, It
is tapered round andnot six strips that have not had the enamel
sideflattened. It looks like it has been turned on alathe of some sort and is
very smooth. I only havethe butt and tip section. Both are 36 3/4" long.The
tip section has an agate tip top with verysmall snake guides and intermediate
wraps everyinch. The inter wraps appear to be white or lightyellow with red
tipping same as the guide wraps.Every seven inches there is a 1/2" wide
wrap ofblack and white Jasper thread with about threewraps of red tipping.
The ferrules appear to beN/S and pinned. The butt section has
intermediatewraps every inch and as the tip, the 1/2" wraps ofwhite and
black jasper with red tipping. Thestripper guide is gone 
from the butt section. Thewinding check appears to be N/S is 1/2" high witha
taper and welt like ring where the taper ends.The bottom of the check
appears to go over thefront end of the cork grip. The lower part of thegrip is
straight to about 2/3 of the way thentapers to the winding check. It is 6"
long. Thereelseat is 4 1/2" long. appears to be N/S. Noinsert. On the bottom
of the reel seat in themetal there is 1 3/8" of what looks like louversapprox.
1/2" wide. The ring has matching louversthat lock together when a reel is
installed. I didfind this stamped on the reel seat, PAT. APRIL.2.07I  D keyed
the E Bay address that was posted so Ican't compare it to the one that is up
forauction.Any info would be appreciated.Tony     FlyTyr@southshore.com

from channer@netscape.net Thu Jan  6 22:24:01 2000

mailer(M3.3.1.96) onFri Jan  7 04:23:58 GMT 2000

Subject: Re: [Sharp bamboo]

"Ed Riddle"  wrote:

-----Original Message-----From: channer 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 8:16 PMSubject: Re: [Following the grain]

strip ofbamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese Punji Stake.  IfI
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you,
askmeabout it.Ed

Ed;I missed that party, I was 4-F( flunked the urinalysis, they said i was
acandidate for kidney failure, that was in 1971). But i do know of a guy
thatwas killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of oak
kickingback and going completely thru his stomach. Never stand directly
behindtheblade on a table saw.John

____________________________________________________________________Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today
athttp://webmail.netscape.com.

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jan  6 22:42:54 2000

"Kling, Barry W.","''David W. Smith, Ph.D. ' '","'mcdowellc@lanecc.edu '" 

Subject: RE: Following the grain

Bob -- 

You have a lot more experience than I do and I respect your point of view.I've
built only a few rods so far, all nodeless, and I like the results, butcan't say 
from personal experience that they're better or worse thansimilarrods with
nodes. I guess part of my reason for the posting was to find outif anyone out
there has any systematic evidence on this, since I have heard(and even
believed) convincing theories supporting many mutuallyexclusivepropositions
in my time.

As for cutting fibers in a nodeless rod, before splitting the culm I saw outthe
nodes, making the cut far enough above and below the node to
alsoremovethe thickened area near by. So I do cut all the fibers between the
nodes. Ibelieve this is how others do it, too.

Sure would be boring if there was only one way to do all this....

Barry

-----Original Message-----

mcdowellc@lanecc.edu

Subject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you are saying Barry, but here is my point, 
from a technicalstandpoint, about maintaining the integrity of the power
fibers as muchasfeasibly possible.  Reducing the integrity of the power
fibers (cuttingacross them or at an angle to them) reducesThe resistance to
shear of the bamboo.  Bamboo, looked at in smallsections(and it is the small
sections that bend, making the whole bend) changesshape under shear
stress (casting).  The more power fibers you have intact,the less likely you
are to have failure during this deforamation of thecane.  I am not a nodeless
builder, and to be honest, have no desire tobuild nodeless.  did one, and it was
no less trouble than straighteningafew nodes, and I am not knocking
nodeless.  Frankly, if the glue jointis agood one, it should be stronger than
the surrounding material, but,nodelessor not, if you start cutting across
power fibers between the nodes(which,you do not do building nodeless rods,
do you) then you are reducing theresistance to deformation, and in my logic
(notice I said MY logic...LOL)that makes a rod more suseptable to failure,
because it allows the canetobe bent beyond what it was intended to bend
when "whoever" sat downwiththier slide rule, calculator, computer or graph
paper designing thetaperbased on the Acceptable Shear Modulus or Elastic
modulus, upon which allformulas for calculating tapers are based on.   If we
change the shearstress and strain properties of the cane, by cutting across
the powerfibers, then we are just asking for trouble... not necessarily
failure,but

just my opinion...

Bob-----Original Message-----

Subject: RE: Following the grain

I never have understood the big deal about this since nodeless
rodsclearlywork so well. You can't interrupt the fibers any more than that.
Andmanyofthe great rods of the past were sawed and/or milled, as Terry
Acklandhaspointed out. Making a rod with hand tools only is a fine thing if
youenjoyit but the idea that it makes any difference to the rod sounds
likewishfulthinking to me. A lot like the way, when I'm feeling good and maybe
putonsome clothes I like, I feel a bit slimmer. But I'm always careful
nottoweigh myself at times like that.

Barry

-----Original Message-----From: David W. Smith, Ph.D.

Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/6/00 3:02 PMSubject: Re:
Following the grain

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")? 
Ifbevelingis "ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregarding
SeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to
handsplit aculm.

But.......

aren't  wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplitting asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
togo (downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by
alternatingpressure etc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto

saw tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know
"we"coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand
splittingasif itis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jan  6 22:52:13 2000

"'caneman@clnk.com '"

"''David W. Smith, Ph.D. ' '" ,"'mcdowellc@lanecc.edu '"
,"'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Following the grain

I wouldn't get mad, you guys are too generous with excellent info for
that.But I would note that there is a rough equivalence in available rhetoric.

strongest part of the culm, not the weak nodes that are so
vulnerablepeoplespend hours figuring out how to position them to minimize
the damage. If Iwanted a weak rod I'd buy one of those thin-walled plastic
things. But thenI like the sound of what you wrote, too. What I want to know
is whetheranyone has done any systematic testing.

-----Original Message-----

mcdowellc@lanecc.edu; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

from saweiss@flash.net Thu Jan  6 23:35:15 2000

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Barry,Many people think that the nodes are not the weakest part. Try
breaking afew strips; the breaks are usually between the nodes.Steve

I wouldn't get mad, you guys are too generous with excellent info forthat.But
I would note that there is a rough equivalence in available rhetoric.

strongest part of the culm, not the weak nodes that are so
vulnerablepeoplespend hours figuring out how to position them to minimize
the damage. IfIwanted a weak rod I'd buy one of those thin-walled plastic
things. ButthenI like the sound of what you wrote, too. What I want to know
is whetheranyone has done any systematic testing.

-----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon

Cc: KlingB@health.missouri.edu; 'David W. Smith, Ph.D.
';mcdowellc@lanecc.edu; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/6/00 9:27
AMSubject: Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

from djk762@hotmail.com Thu Jan  6 23:44:19 2000

Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:43:46 PST

Subject: Nyatex expansion

Rodmakers-

Do any of you Nyatex users adjust your final dimensions for expansion during
gluing? If so how much?

Thanks,

DavidKashuba

FairOaks
CA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jan  6 23:45:58 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:45:17 +0800

Subject: Re: Following the grain

"'David W. Smith, Ph.D. '" ,,

As far as I can see this perceived need to keep the fibers integrity comes

from wood working and wood turning in particular. When you turn the legs

the grain running out and wind up with a broken (chair) leg so the usualthing
is to use riven wood for the legs. But this is for turning wood whichhas grain
running all over the place and you may start out with a piece ofwood that has
the grain running at an opposite angle 
from one face to theother so when you turn it you possition the riven wood it
in the lathe sothe grain is all running fore and aft. You can't always do this
with a sawnpiece of wood. As far as I can see this doesn't apply to bamboo
which can't be said toreally have a grain simmilar to wood, at least it doesn't
run out. In anycase, the place where the split bamboo runs away 
from a straight line isusually at the node which is like a knot in a piece of
wood. Even when thisis straightened you still wind up cutting through the
grain during planingso there has to be severed grain at this point.

Tony

At 08:57 PM 1/6/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:I see what you are saying
Barry, but here is my point, 
from a technicalstandpoint, about maintaining the integrity of the power
fibers as muchasfeasibly possible.  Reducing the integrity of the power
fibers (cuttingacross them or at an angle to them) reducesThe resistance to
shear of the bamboo.  Bamboo, looked at in smallsections(and it is the small
sections that bend, making the whole bend) changesshape under shear
stress (casting).  The more power fibers you have intact,the less likely you
are to have failure during this deforamation of thecane.  I am not a nodeless
builder, and to be honest, have no desire tobuild nodeless.  did one, and it was
no less trouble than straightening afew nodes, and I am not knocking
nodeless.  Frankly, if the glue joint is agood one, it should be stronger than
the surrounding material, but,nodelessor not, if you start cutting across
power fibers between the nodes(which,you do not do building nodeless rods,
do you) then you are reducing theresistance to deformation, and in my logic
(notice I said MY logic... LOL)that makes a rod more suseptable to failure,
because it allows the canetobe bent beyond what it was intended to bend
when "whoever" sat downwiththier slide rule, calculator, computer or graph
paper designing the taperbased on the Acceptable Shear Modulus or Elastic
modulus, upon which allformulas for calculating tapers are based on.   If we
change the shearstress and strain properties of the cane, by cutting across
the powerfibers, then we are just asking for trouble... not necessarily
failure, but

just my opinion...

Bob-----Original Message-----From: Kling, Barry W. 

Cc: 'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu ' Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 8:06
PMSubject: RE: Following the grain

I never have understood the big deal about this since nodeless
rodsclearlywork so well. You can't interrupt the fibers any more than that.
Andmanyofthe great rods of the past were sawed and/or milled, as Terry
Acklandhaspointed out. Making a rod with hand tools only is a fine thing if you
enjoyit but the idea that it makes any difference to the rod sounds
likewishfulthinking to me. A lot like the way, when I'm feeling good and maybe
putonsome clothes I like, I feel a bit slimmer. But I'm always careful not
toweigh myself at times like that.

Barry

-----Original Message-----From: David W. Smith, Ph.D.

Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/6/00 3:02 PMSubject: Re:
Following the grain

Isn't cutting, as McDowell describes below, the same as using a
powerbeveler(i.e., it cuts were it cuts without regard to the "grain")?  If
bevelingis "ok",why not sawing?dws.

CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregarding
SeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to
handsplit aculm.

But.......

aren't  wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplitting asopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
togo (downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by
alternatingpressure etc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto

saw tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we"
coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting
asif itis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from stpete@netten.net Thu Jan  6 23:54:58 2000

Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:56:18 -0600

Subject: Re: 60 degree tool

John,

The 60* lathe tool will work very well on the CRS forms if donecarefully.  The
lathe tool will cut much faster than the file so becareful.  I recommend the
following:

1. make sure the jig is made to set the tool 90* to the top of the form

2. alternate several strokes of the tool with several passes of thetriangular
file jig so as to stay on the center line of the form.  Thetool, having a
shorter profile than the file, is more likely to cut oneside more than the
other.  The file will put it back on centerline sinceit is longer and will take out
the high spots more easily.

3. it is imperative to cut the groove in the TIP SIDE FIRST.  It is veryeasy to
overcut the groove with the lathe tool.  If you do, you getanother shot at it
by trying the tip side taper again on the other sideof the form and make the
first fouled up tip side into a butt taper.

4. I used a cutting oil and that seemed to reduce chatter, but stopcutting
with the tool when you get to within .003" of the finaldimensions.  Finish with
the triangular file jig to remove any chattermarks.  Tilting the tool forward
reduces/eliminates chatter as well BUTit also changes the angle which you
are cutting.  The tool needs to beset perfectly perpendicular to the length
and width axis of the forms.  

Rick C.

John Collier wrote:

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, however the
60degree V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there any
otherwayto achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree file epoxied
toplywood.  I know it is possible to use a lathe bit when building woodenforms,
but will this work on metal?  All suggestions are greatlyappreciated!

John Collier

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jan  6 23:56:06 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:54:30 +0800

Subject: Re: Following the grain

"'David W. Smith, Ph.D. '" ,
mcdowellc@lanecc.edu,RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu

I had a couple of total failures due to failed glue *BUT* this was tracedto the
glue being different to what I expected it to be. As long as you areconfident
of the glue as you'd normaly expect to be you wont haveproblems.My problem
is you can't buy small qtys of the glue and resin I wasusingeasily and the
place I had bought my first tins 
from had altered theformula to make it more flexable but I was not advised
of this. The guy Ibought it 
from knew I was making rods with it and thought it's be evenbetter now it
was more flexable (very wrong) so he didn't mention thechange.Up until this
time I had zero failures using Shell Epon for the scarfs andsplines.I
understand your feelings re. not wanting to use more glue to make a rodthan
you have to but the right glue doesn't adversly affect the structuralintegrity
at all. The wrong glue is a complete disaster.

Tony

At 08:27 AM 1/6/00 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Again I will back your
comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally am not convinced that
Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on this list not long ago in
which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan  7 00:40:14 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:38:01 -0600

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Amen, Steven... 'nuf said.

Bob

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Barry,Many people think that the nodes are not the weakest part. Try
breaking afew strips; the breaks are usually between the nodes.Steve

I wouldn't get mad, you guys are too generous with excellent info forthat.But
I would note that there is a rough equivalence in available rhetoric.

strongest part of the culm, not the weak nodes that are so
vulnerablepeoplespend hours figuring out how to position them to minimize
the damage.IfIwanted a weak rod I'd buy one of those thin-walled plastic
things. ButthenI like the sound of what you wrote, too. What I want to know
is whetheranyone has done any systematic testing.

-----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon

Cc: KlingB@health.missouri.edu; 'David W. Smith, Ph.D.
';mcdowellc@lanecc.edu; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/6/00 9:27
AMSubject: Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

from pac1for@earthlink.net Fri Jan  7 03:51:07 2000

Subject: Radio Rod

I have a 9 foot, 3pc 5 weight rod that I acquired a year ago.  It was inrough
shape, but seemed to be of rather high quality.  All the hardware isnickel
silver, it had a handsome swelled butt and attractive intermediatewraps.  It
is Stamped "Radio Rod" on the metal reel seat.

Who made this rod?  It seems like it would be rather old - as a
freindmentioned, there was a time when the moniker "Radio" was attached
tocommercial products to imply cutting edge technology, much the same
waythat"Lazer"  or "Rocket" would be used today.  Has anybody heard of it?

Peter Collin

from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Jan  7 06:37:20 2000

Subject: Fw: H-I rod

Tony:I hadn't dumped it yet.Ed-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: H-I rod

George,check this url:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-
cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230872810Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Have any of you ever seen an H-I rod, that was almost round, yet
madefromcane ? I've been unable to find any reference to such a rod, yet it
haspartof the H-I decal, but no name inscribed on it. It appears to be of
sixstripconstruction, and I guess the corners were just sanded off !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" 

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:34 PMSubject: Re: Ammonium
Carbonate

Sent this yesterday but did not see it posted.

Tony Spezio wrote:

Need some information on using Ammonium Carbonate.As I understand it,
some is placed in a containerin the heat treating oven. How much is used.
Isthis done while heat treating or is it done with adifferent temperature. I
use 375*@ seven minuets

temperature and how long.Thanks in advance,Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jan  7 07:07:26 2000

2000 05:07:23 PST

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

resorcinol has my vote.   timothy

Bob,I'm convinced you're better off with Epon,Nyatex, Urac, or
evenResorcinol.  .Harry

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jan  7 07:19:00 2000

2000 05:18:57 PST

Subject: RE: Following the grain

grreetings,  you know i realy hate to stir things upbut i've seen some broken
rods and have repaired afew.  not a single one of these broken rods was
brokenat a node.  timothy

--- "Kling, Barry W." wrote:

I wouldn't get mad, you guys are too generous withexcellent info for that.But
I would note that there is a rough equivalencein available rhetoric.

made only of thestrongest part of the culm, not the weak nodes thatare so
vulnerable peoplespend hours figuring out how to position them tominimize
the damage. If Iwanted a weak rod I'd buy one of those thin-walledplastic
things. But thenI like the sound of what you wrote, too. What I wantto know
is whetheranyone has done any systematic testing.

-----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon

Cc: KlingB@health.missouri.edu; 'David W. Smith,Ph.D.
';mcdowellc@lanecc.edu; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/6/00 9:27
AMSubject: Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite whatBarry says, Ipersonally am
not convinced that Nodeless  rods havebeen proved.  Irecall one post on this
list not long ago in whichone splice afteranother let go.  And further I keep
getting hints

from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that wemight
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed hisfeelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted aplastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted arod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't thinkthat it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structuralintegrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of itsstuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have noright to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell youwhy I don't agree.

Ralph

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jan  7 07:26:55 2000

2000 05:26:53 PST

Subject: good bye for now and good fortune

greetings,  i have enjoyed the time i have spent withthe newsgroup.  this has
been informative and helpful.my ready access to a computer will end today
so iwill sign off for a while, after today.  i will followthe adventures in the
archives as i have a chance. good fortune to you all.  timothy

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jan  7 07:36:29 2000

"'saweiss@flash.net '","'Rodmakers '" Subject: RE: Following the grain

OK, you guys, but I still haven't heard anything other than opinions
andrhetoric (mine included). Has no one done any systematic testing?

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Amen, Steven... 'nuf said.

Bob

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Barry,Many people think that the nodes are not the weakest part. Try
breakingafew strips; the breaks are usually between the nodes.Steve

I wouldn't get mad, you guys are too generous with excellent info forthat.But
I would note that there is a rough equivalence in availablerhetoric.

strongest part of the culm, not the weak nodes that are so
vulnerablepeoplespend hours figuring out how to position them to minimize
the damage.IfIwanted a weak rod I'd buy one of those thin-walled plastic
things.ButthenI like the sound of what you wrote, too. What I want to know
iswhetheranyone has done any systematic testing.

-----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon

Cc: KlingB@health.missouri.edu; 'David W. Smith, Ph.D.
';mcdowellc@lanecc.edu; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/6/00 9:27
AMSubject: Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I
wouldhavebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue
Iwould have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes
arocketscientist to figure out that the structural integrity of the
wholemustbe better than the structural integrity of its stuck-together
parts.Anyway, don't get mad nodeless builders,  I have no right
tocriticizewhat you do, but I maintain the right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 07:53:56 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:44:54 -0600

,

Subject: Re: Radio Rod

I've never heard of the "Radio" name, but the swelled butt sounds likeHeddon.
Are the female ferrules straight. or reduced, after they leave thediameter
at the cane ?

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Radio Rod

I have a 9 foot, 3pc 5 weight rod that I acquired a year ago.  It was inrough
shape, but seemed to be of rather high quality.  All the hardware isnickel
silver, it had a handsome swelled butt and attractiveintermediatewraps.  It is
Stamped "Radio Rod" on the metal reel seat.

Who made this rod?  It seems like it would be rather old - as a
freindmentioned, there was a time when the moniker "Radio" was attached
tocommercial products to imply cutting edge technology, much the
samewaythat"Lazer"  or "Rocket" would be used today.  Has anybody heard
of it?

Peter Collin

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan  7 08:06:21 2000

Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id 
forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri,

Subject: Torch for flaming

I'd like to flame the culm for my next couple of rods. I have a propanetank
(for my BBQ) and am searching for an appropriate torch. Is thereanything
special I need to buy? For example, do I want a narrow flame or awide flame?

Thanks,

Richard

from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Jan  7 08:20:49 2000

Subject: re: Pro-Bond Adhesive

Hello Friends,

I've also used poly on all my rods-7 or so. I've never had any troublethat
Icould trace to the glue. There was a particularly pernicious
rumorfloatingaround that the glue would foam upon curing (it will) and would
actuallyforceapart the tip strips (it won't). If the rod is properly bound
aftergluingthere shouldn't be a problem; my tip sections measure out just
about asI wouldexpect them to. To each his/her own, but the strength and
availabilityof thepoly glue make it a simple choice for me.

Best,

Joe

p.s. now if I could just find some time to plane a few strips that Icouldstick
together I'd be really happy!

Joseph S. KalloDepartment of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at
Carbondale

On Thu, 06 Jan 2000, you wrote:Hi All,As Bob knows I have used poly glues on
all my rods and haveheated,bent and flexed rods and sections into a
complete U shape, I haveglued 2 by4's together and beat them with a sledge,
I have broken rod sectionsbyslowly bending them and in every case the wood
failed before the glue.I havehad no glue lines unless I made a mistake in my
planing. Just thoughtI wouldlet you know about my experiments.Joe

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 08:21:05 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:21:29 -0600

"Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" 

Subject: Re: Torch for flaming

I would think you want a broad, wide tip, to give the largest flamepossible. We
want to heat a large area, as opposed to doing fine silversoldering, that
requires a small point of flame.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Torch for flaming

I'd like to flame the culm for my next couple of rods. I have a propanetank
(for my BBQ) and am searching for an appropriate torch. Is thereanything
special I need to buy? For example, do I want a narrow flame orawide flame?

Thanks,

Richard

from bhoy@inmind.com Fri Jan  7 08:26:01 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:52:39 -0500

Subject: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone when youare
cutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurement would seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, to the process. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
just not accurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a bad
reading by tipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
the groove visually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of the
tailpiece so it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is accurate
and consistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end (Don't ask
me how I know this).

Thanks,

Bill Hoy

At 12:54 AM 01/07/2000 , Rick C. wrote:John,

The 60* lathe tool will work very well on the CRS forms if donecarefully.  The
lathe tool will cut much faster than the file so becareful.  I recommend the
following:

1. make sure the jig is made to set the tool 90* to the top of the form

2. alternate several strokes of the tool with several passes of thetriangular
file jig so as to stay on the center line of the form.  Thetool, having a
shorter profile than the file, is more likely to cut oneside more than the
other.  The file will put it back on centerline sinceit is longer and will take out
the high spots more easily.

3. it is imperative to cut the groove in the TIP SIDE FIRST.  It is veryeasy to
overcut the groove with the lathe tool.  If you do, you getanother shot at it
by trying the tip side taper again on the other sideof the form and make the
first fouled up tip side into a butt taper.

4. I used a cutting oil and that seemed to reduce chatter, but stopcutting
with the tool when you get to within .003" of the finaldimensions.  Finish with
the triangular file jig to remove any chattermarks.  Tilting the tool forward
reduces/eliminates chatter as well BUTit also changes the angle which you
are cutting.  The tool needs to beset perfectly perpendicular to the length
and width axis of the forms.

Rick C.

John Collier wrote:

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, however the60degree
V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there any otherwayto
achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree file epoxied toplywood.  I
know it is possible to use a lathe bit when building woodenforms, but will this
work on metal?  All suggestions are greatly appreciated!

John Collier

Bill Hoy

from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Jan  7 08:26:08 2000

sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id  for

Subject: RE: Radio Rod - Revised website

I own a couple Radio rods too and I know of many others around... so
far,we're all in the same boat and no one knows who made them... but they
areavery high quality rod on the order of Thomas or Edwards or
perhapsChubb/Varney... I wish someone knows about them...

One of my Radio rods also has a Abbey & Imbrie decal that would date itpre-
1921. Another rod while not marked Radio is stamped Abercrombie
&Fitchand is remarkably similar to the Radio rods so... just my two cents...

I've just completed redoing my homepage to give it a new look and
easiertonavigate the site 
from the homepage I think. Added fishing reports and afewother features...
will be adding several more features next week... I'm offto climb some
mountains this weekend... time to put away the tackle boxandget out the ole
ice axe and crampons...

Please visit my site and let me know what you think... I've added a
couplemore links that go nowhere so I am aware of the pages that are not
activeatthis time...

www.bamboorods.homepage.com

Thanks, you all have a great weekend!

Darrell-----Original Message-----

edriddle@mindspring.com; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Radio
Rod

I've never heard of the "Radio" name, but the swelled butt sounds likeHeddon.
Are the female ferrules straight. or reduced, after they leave thediameter
at the cane ?

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Radio Rod

I have a 9 foot, 3pc 5 weight rod that I acquired a year ago.  It was inrough
shape, but seemed to be of rather high quality.  All the hardware isnickel
silver, it had a handsome swelled butt and attractiveintermediatewraps.  It is
Stamped "Radio Rod" on the metal reel seat.

Who made this rod?  It seems like it would be rather old - as a
freindmentioned, there was a time when the moniker "Radio" was attached
tocommercial products to imply cutting edge technology, much the
samewaythat"Lazer"  or "Rocket" would be used today.  Has anybody heard
of it?

Peter Collin

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 08:26:48 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:27:10 -0600

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

This morning I realized that I didn't make myself clear about the
foamingofthe glue, as it started to set. The small amount of foaming was all
on theoutside, not down into the joints, where it is visible. When I
finishedscraping or sanding the sections, there is not glue line that is
reallyshowing any color, as it set up the color of the cane.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pro-Bond adhesive

nobler wrote:

Hi Ed,

Yes, so far the results are all I could have asked for. I won't know forsure,
until the repairs are tested "on the water", stp, but this gluebehaves very
well.

George,Let us know what happens when you straighten these sections
withheat.I'm curious as tot he ability of this glue to withstand
heatstraightening.Plus, if you have glue lines, this stuff looks bad to me. 
The foam is asort oflight tan that turns grayish upon filing.  I've never used
it on a rodbecauseof the short working time, but I did use it on a coupla
hexagonal rodcases Imade.So please keep us abreast of the good things
you're finding withthisglue.

Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan  7 08:35:00 2000

batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA31216 for;

(8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id IAA30226 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000

Subject: Re: Nodeless

David,

The bow you describe in the strip won't affect anything.  Sometimesif you
cut the section too close to the node you will get a littlebend or dogleg near
the end of the split strip.  That you want to avoid.

When you are squaring up the strips, make sure the pith side is flat(ie. watch
out for little ridges).  These can make the strip sit at anangle in the splicing
block. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer                        
"...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                       than a
waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer." 
Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's Luck",
1899.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, dpizza wrote:

Hi !!!!! Like others I have been shadowing the list for some time gatheringinfo.
and collecting tools. I have decided to build nodeless exclusivelyfornow. My
question is this: Should I straighten (with heat) the "chopsticks"before I
square them up and then scarf and glue them or should I justsplit,square,
scarf, taper, glue, and then straighten the blank as an assembly??The
problem I am finding is that the "chopsticks" have a bow in themwhichmakes
the tips not flat with the middle when viewed 
from the side. (Enameldown and pith side up )

Any help would be appreciated.

TIA

David

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 08:40:07 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:40:23 -0600

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

You have something wrong with your dial indicator/depth gauge, as I
havethesame make, and it has no way for it to be tipped when measuring
depth,froma flat surface. This may be a description problem ???

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone when
youarecutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurementwould seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, to theprocess. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
just notaccurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a bad
reading bytipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
thegroovevisually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of the
tailpieceso it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is accurate
andconsistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end (Don't
askme how I know this).

Thanks,

Bill Hoy

At 12:54 AM 01/07/2000 , Rick C. wrote:John,

The 60* lathe tool will work very well on the CRS forms if donecarefully.  The
lathe tool will cut much faster than the file so becareful.  I recommend the
following:

1. make sure the jig is made to set the tool 90* to the top of the form

2. alternate several strokes of the tool with several passes of thetriangular
file jig so as to stay on the center line of the form.  Thetool, having a
shorter profile than the file, is more likely to cut oneside more than the
other.  The file will put it back on centerline sinceit is longer and will take out
the high spots more easily.

3. it is imperative to cut the groove in the TIP SIDE FIRST.  It is veryeasy to
overcut the groove with the lathe tool.  If you do, you getanother shot at it
by trying the tip side taper again on the other sideof the form and make the
first fouled up tip side into a butt taper.

4. I used a cutting oil and that seemed to reduce chatter, but stopcutting
with the tool when you get to within .003" of the finaldimensions.  Finish with
the triangular file jig to remove any chattermarks.  Tilting the tool forward
reduces/eliminates chatter as wellBUTit also changes the angle which you
are cutting.  The tool needs to beset perfectly perpendicular to the length
and width axis of the forms.

Rick C.

John Collier wrote:

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, however the60degree
V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there anyother wayto
achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree file epoxiedtoplywood.  I
know it is possible to use a lathe bit when buildingwoodenforms, but will this
work on metal?  All suggestions are greatlyappreciated!

John Collier

Bill Hoy

from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan  7 08:44:02 2000

"''David W. Smith, Ph.D. ' '" ,"'mcdowellc@lanecc.edu '"
,"'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: Re: Following the grain

boundary="------------ECA5908972278ADDC5CE972A"

--------------ECA5908972278ADDC5CE972A

Barry

Thanks for your ideas.  I am sure that no one has done any definitivetesting
on this theme, and it only goes to show ya that all of us are inone way or
another a bunch of hidebound old fogies.  What works for meand fits my
perception of things is what I am going to use.  I come frompre-Garrison and
much of my way of doing things is self developed.  Ihad no fount of knowledge
such as this rod list, no Master's Guide toBuilding a Bamboo Rod,  just had to
do my thing and determine what bestI liked.  Meaning no disrespect, I do get a
little tired of some of uswho continually want someone else to do their
thinking for them.  Someof my early experiments and work by some of my
colleagues, a long timeago soured me on the integrity of splices.  My opinions
stem 
from thoseexperiments.  I admit that even I (God Forbid) can be wrong.  BUT I
dowhat I like and like what I do.

And thanks Bob, I like the company too

Ralph

--------------ECA5908972278ADDC5CE972A

Barry

definitivetesting on this theme, and it only goes to show ya that all of us are
in

come 
from pre-Garrison and much of my way of doing things is self

I had no fount of knowledge such as this rod list, no Master's Guide

of some of us who continually want someone else to do their thinking for

colleagues,

And thanks Bob, I like the company tooRalph

--------------ECA5908972278ADDC5CE972A--

from Davidhray1@aol.com Fri Jan  7 09:01:50 2000

Subject: follow the grain

With so many STRONG opinions about how to build rods and with so
manyexperts in each way it seems the bottom line is build the rod any way
you thinkbest because in the long run it is much to do about nothing. Just
have a good time. Whether we split or cut, use epon, tightbond, etc or even
elmers glue it really makes little difference and you can find plenty of people
with strong opinions on each side. These things are not nearly as important
aswe would like to make them. Do it your way and enjoy it. But again just my
opinion.

David H. Ray

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan  7 09:11:14 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:11:00 -0800

Subject: Re: Nyatex expansion

David Kashuba wrote:

Do any of you Nyatex users adjust your final dimensions for expansionduring
gluing? If so how much?

David,If there is expansion during gluing, it is probably 
from somethingother than theNyatex glue -- in all likelihood, measuring
errorsbefore gluing.  I have found that it is extremely difficult to
accuratelymeasure bound,but still un-glued, strips.  I have tried taping
thesections together immediately above and below each 5" measuring
station,then measuring.The sections still tend to compress.  A rachet
mechanismon a micrometer works better than a dial caliper, but still is less
than

someone else has some ideas on this???--Harry
Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan  7 09:23:12 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:23:04 -0800

Subject: Re: follow the grain

Davidhray1@aol.com wrote:

. Do it your way and enjoy it. But again just my opinion.

David H. Ray

Good thoughts, David -- but if we follow that line of thinking to itslogical
conclusion, then Terry Ackland is right, the list is pointless.Sometimes a
little friendly discussion on the relative and perceivedmerits of"my way's
better'n yours" prompts us to change this, or tweak that, orreconsiderthis. 
And that's what makes this list so valuable, not just for rankbeginners,or
relative newcomers like me, or longtimers like Ralph.Really I think you and I
agree that all the opinions are worth hearing,and sharing, but none of us is
omniscient (omniscient basically means"all-knowing" - so someone won't
flame me for using a big word!)

--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Jan  7 09:28:27 2000

JAA20469

ESMTP forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:28:01 -0800

(5.5.2448.0)

Subject: nodes

I was straightening split strips and filing the nodes on a new rod thisweekend
andinstead of filing and sanding the nodes I used my L/N scraper and got
muchbetter resultsthan using sand paper. I did the initial filing then instead
of sanding Iscraped. I waswondering if anybody else has tried this. I set my
scraper for a microshaving and endedup with perfect nodes.

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

from arnold.jl@pg.com Fri Jan  7 09:38:14 2000

notes082.na.pg.com[155.125.116.193]

2000 10:35:54

1999))  id8525685F.0055DF8F ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:37:57 -0500

"'David W. Smith, Ph.D. '" ,
mcdowellc@lanecc.edu,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Ralph, I build nodeless rods, and no I am not mad at your not
beingconvincedthat nodeless is a reliable method. I am not 100% sure of
either methodmyselfafter the few years I have been working with cane. I
started buildingnodelessrods because after reading all of the archives and
books, this method feltrightto me. I couldn't get over the abuse that is
required to make a node flatandstraight. Grinding or filing, heating then
pressing, heating thenstraighteningall to make a node useable in a rod. I
recognize that nearly all of theclassicrods are made with the nodes in place
and are functioning as designedwith noreported failures. I haven't heard of
any nodeless rods being reported ashavingfailures either. Sure we have all
heard of a failure of some sort duringconstruction when a nodeless strip is
being flexed for an integrity check. Thiswould be no different (in my mind)
than a node snaping when beingover/underheated and straightened. There
are several people who have gone to thenodelessmethod and are making a
living at it, or at least supplimenting thereincome.

I would expect that as more people come into the rodmaking business(hobby
forme), we will see more people trying the nodeless method. Why? Well
thereis moreinformation coming out on nodeless techniques, the glues that
we havetoday seemto be better than what the rodmaking pioneers had 25-
50-100 years ago,and tomany people that I have talked to they like the look
of the nodeless rod. Tosome people, having the flexiblilty and control to weed
out bad sections ofcane (cosmetic or structural) without wasting the rest of
the strip is veryimportant. Another consideration for me was space and
funds in mystartup ofrodmaking, I didn't have much of either. I was able to
quickly utilize mycooking oven for heat treating instead of building or
purchasing an oven tocookfull length strips.

Since this is a hobby / way of life for me, I do not want to just focus in onone
method of building a fly rod. I am interested in building a rod or
rodswithnodes, quads, pentas, and more of the hexes that I am currently
building. Ioften wonder how much thought went into nodeless vesus noded
rodconstructionback when Garrison and others were starting out. Did they
realize thattheydidn't have sufficient glue or techniques to build nodeless? Or
perhapstheyreally didn't give it much thought at all, and just wanted to build
rodswiththe construction method that had the most information on and they
feltmostcomfortable with. 
from my less experienced point of view I saw severalways of"skinnin' the cat"
and chose nodeless as my entry into rodmaking.

Time will tell on these methods and hopefully they will both be
exceptablemethods for constructing fly rods.

I really think that this list has made a strong comeback 
from say the lastsixmonths, when little rodmaking was being discussed. Is
this due to colderweatheror renewed interest?

Jeff

Internet Mail Message                                          Received 
from host: wugate.wustl.edu                           [128.252.120.1]                                                

Envelope Sender:    owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Please respond to rmoon@ida.net

,mcdowellc@lanecc.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (bcc: JeffArnold-
JL/PGI)Subject:  Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

Ralph Wrote:

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jan  7 09:38:40 2000

2000 07:38:37 PST

Subject: Re: nodes

me! me! tjt

--- "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote:I was straightening split strips and filing
thenodes on a new rod this weekend and instead offiling and sanding the
nodes I used my L/N scraperand got much better results than using sand
paper. Idid the initial filing then instead of sanding Iscraped. I was wondering
if anybody else has triedthis. I set my scraper for a micro shaving and
endedup with perfect nodes.

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan  7 09:41:11 2000

batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA31567 for;

(8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id JAA18700 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000

Subject: Re: Following the grain

So you build your rods with nodes as close as possible to theferrules and
tiptop?  We had an interesting discussion of these same points in November
98 under the topic "All you nodeless types", if you look in the archives.

I agree with those who say these things have never been tested in a rigorous
way.  We all have our beliefs and experiences and tests ofone or two samples
and "common sense", but we don't have the time/resources/knowhow to do
serious testing of all these alternatives.  

The one factor in rodmaking which has been most thoroughly tested is heat
treating, which (almost) everyone believes to be necessary (including me).
Yet it doesn't seem to make much difference in the tests I've seen.Then
there is node vs nodeless, the importance of power fibers, bigvs little power
fibers, 4 vs 5 vs 6 sided rods, ferrules vs one piece,sprial rods, umpteen
types of glue, sawed vs planed, new vs pre-embargocane, impregnated vs
varnished, flamed vs blonde, hollow vs solid, etc etc.

This is what makes rodbuilding interesting to me.  I especially appreciatethe
people on this list (and elsewhere) who go out and push the envelopeand try
things that others say won't work. 
......................................................................Frank Stetzer                        
"...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                       than a
waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer." 
Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's Luck",
1899.

On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Bob Nunley wrote:

Amen, Steven... 'nuf said.

Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Steven Weiss 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:36 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain

Barry,Many people think that the nodes are not the weakest part. Try
breakingafew strips; the breaks are usually between the nodes.

from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Jan  7 09:45:13 2000

don")

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:44:06 -0700

Subject: Building noded rods

Guys,

Been thinking about building a complete rod of nodes. Seems like if thestrip
breaks between the nodes, the nodes just have to be tougher.Measuredsome
nodes and they are about 1>1.5" long. Going to be a pile of splices.Anyone
ever attempt this?

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan  7 09:51:13 2000

Subject: Re: nodes

Careful, the path you are beginning to tread on will lead you to thedark side,
little Anikin...

This is how I started, then I started planing the enamel side, taking.010 to
.015 
from the outside. I got much better looking rods withno discernable
difference in action. But if you remember a few monthsago when I posted
that I did this somebody went on the warpath againstit. "You CAN'T plane the
power fibers"....Darryl

I was straightening split strips and filing the nodes on a new rod this weekend
and instead of filing and sanding the nodes I used my L/Nscraper and got
much better results than using sand paper. I did the initial filing then instead
of sanding I scraped. I was wondering if anybody else has tried this. I set my
scraper for a micro shaving and ended up with perfect nodes.

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jan  7 09:53:43 2000

2000 07:53:39 PST

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

you do this and i'll drive half way to hell to see it.i'll be impressed to make the
aquaintance of such awell noded individual.  ;-)  timothy

--- Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys,

Been thinking about building a complete rod ofnodes. Seems like if thestrip
breaks between the nodes, the nodes just haveto be tougher. Measuredsome
nodes and they are about 1>1.5" long. Going tobe a pile of splices.Anyone
ever attempt this?

Don

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from djk762@hotmail.com Fri Jan  7 10:07:52 2000

Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:07:17 PST

Subject: Scraping Power Fibers

List-

Besides using a scraper for smoothing nodes there are rodmakers turning
old production rods into Banties by scraping or planing the old tips and mids
to new tapers.The idea is that there are plenty of power fibers to allow for
adjustments in good cane, especially in the narrower sections.

David KashubaFair Oaks
CA.______________________________________________________Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 10:14:55 2000

(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:14:22 +0000

Subject: Re: [Sharp bamboo]

JohnEspecially if it's a radial arm saw and you are ripping and you have
theblade set in the wrong direction.

Jack-----Original Message-----

RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu 

Subject: Re: [Sharp bamboo]

"Ed Riddle"  wrote:

-----Original Message-----From: channer 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 8:16 PMSubject: Re: [Following the grain]

strip ofbamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese Punji Stake.IfI ever
have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you, askmeabout
it.Ed

Ed;I missed that party, I was 4-F( flunked the urinalysis, they said i was
acandidate for kidney failure, that was in 1971). But i do know of a
guythatwas killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of oak
kickingback and going completely thru his stomach. Never stand directly
behindtheblade on a table saw.John

____________________________________________________________________Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today
athttp://webmail.netscape.com.

from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Jan  7 10:23:10 2000

(5.5.2650.21)

Subject: planing forms for sale

There is a set of Garrison style planing forms for sale on VFS.

http://www.flyshop.com/Marketplace/main.cfm?content=auction&page=index&ID=22378&action=details&fullblown=true

from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 10:26:49 2000

(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:26:15 +0000

"rod 'akers" Subject: Re: nodes

TimWe thought you signed off at 8:30---just couldn't stay away eh?

Jack-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: nodes

me! me! tjt

--- "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote:I was straightening split strips and filing
thenodes on a new rod this weekend and instead offiling and sanding the
nodes I used my L/N scraperand got much better results than using sand
paper. Idid the initial filing then instead of sanding Iscraped. I was wondering
if anybody else has triedthis. I set my scraper for a micro shaving and
endedup with perfect nodes.

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jan  7 10:30:16 2000

2000 08:30:11 PST

Subject: Re: nodes

"rod 'akers" 

jack, sorry for misleading you.  i'll sign off on theway out the door. i have to
do something today.  theytook every thing else away 
from me being it was thelast day and all. ;-) tjt

--- Jacques Follweiler wrote:TimWe thought you signed off at 8:30---just
couldn'tstay away eh?

Jack-----Original Message-----From: timothy troester 

; rod 'akers

Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 10:41 AMSubject: Re: nodes

me! me! tjt

--- "Coffey, Patrick W"

wrote:I was straightening split strips and filing thenodes on a new rod this
weekend and instead offiling and sanding the nodes I used my L/Nscraperand
got much better results than using sandpaper. Idid the initial filing then
instead of sanding Iscraped. I was wondering if anybody else hastriedthis. I
set my scraper for a micro shaving andendedup with perfect nodes.

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo!
Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Jan  7 11:01:06 2000

9:05:53 PST

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Bob,

I don't know how much time might be saved if any.  I was thinking in termsof
getting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splits at a
slow pace.  The need to straighten sweeps would still be there.  

Chris---------- Original Text ----------

Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting, and
they way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off the band
saw.  I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the saw cutoff
of the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it so just click
on it and it'll give you the pic)
http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg  andyou'll
see that the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, very fast
crook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most severe
sweep I have seen at a node).  If you were to index, somehow, so that youcut
the strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would take much
longer than splitting, and you would still have to straighten the strip.  My
understanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down the
preparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminating the
need to straighten.  I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing
straight through this section would have definitely made a number of "cross
cuts" to the power fibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips,
that is how they were done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of
sorts, to insure accurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not
have to be straightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going
to saw, the purpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. 
If you index, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing strips
that would look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or time at
all.  Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially if trying to
"follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer than just
splitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at
the lower strip in the picture, it is a hand split, straightened strip out of the
same culm.  The only difference between this and the only sawn strips I have
ever seen is that this one maintained the integrity of the power fibers and
the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just
confused as to why anyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to
the time andtrouble to follow the grain.  Splitting is EASY in comparason to
trying to cut alongthe grain.

Bob-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as you say
once they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweeping bends are due to a
twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.  If the culm was
initially split in half, and thus the grain is followed to that point as I said
previously, or if it were split further into quarters or sixths, then the grain
has been followed up to that point.  Sawing 3/16" strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the grain.  I think the
significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmore due to
sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to

the twist in the culm and then following the split line.  Just my opinion.

Chris

---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM:

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain of thecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you are onlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split andready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.   Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in the
strip,itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of the strip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you can seethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps in thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
some cases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
have butvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
notonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of continuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplit aculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan  7 11:04:08 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:01:54 -0600

"Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Following the grain

As for cutting fibers in a nodeless rod, before splitting the culm I sawoutthe
nodes, making the cut far enough above and below the node to
alsoremovethe thickened area near by. So I do cut all the fibers between the
nodes. Ibelieve this is how others do it, too.

Barry,This I understand,  What I was trying to point out, and I was not
veryclear about it, is that the continuous power fibers between your
splicesarein tact, and that you make your cut and splice as close to the node
aspossible.  I built ONE nodeless rod, and while I did have to cut the nodesout,
my cuts were as close to the node as possible, and all the fibers fromsplice
to splice were still intact.  Why only one???  Splice failure.  Ibuilt it using my
6' 4wt taper and had a splice failure in the middle of therod and one in the
butt section.  After that, I decided "nodes may not bepretty, but they don't
come unglued"  so I went right back to the "old way".Oh, and I hope you or
anyone else isn't getting upset with me for my"stong" opinion on this. 
Frankly, I think this is the best discussion wehave had on this board in a long
long time... Well, since I have been backto the board!  Even though I may
never change the way I build rods, I stillwant to learn, and a good debate is
the best classroom there is... you CANteach an old dog new tricks  : ^ )

Later,Bob

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jan  7 11:18:48 2000

"Kling, Barry W."

"''David W. Smith, Ph.D. ' '" ,"'mcdowellc@lanecc.edu '"
,"'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Following the grain

Ralph -- 

Pre Garrison! That's one of the great things about this list, the way abamboo
newbie like me can hear 
from someone like you.

You make a great point about finding things out for oneself. The things Ivalue
most in some of my other activities (like B&W photography) are thethings I
figured out 
from experience. But that attitude sometimes meansquestioning tradition!
And in the field where I work -- health care -- I'vefound that people's
perceptions (even the most competent people) differsurprisingly 
from systematic findings when they become available. So Imeantno offense
to those who not only have much more experience than me butaregood
enough to share it. And I don't want people to think for me -- I wasonly hoping
someone had collected some data about which I could think.MaybeI'll just have
to do it myself....and even then its meaning will not beclear except in the
light of experience like yours.

Thanks....

Barry

-----Original Message-----

'; 'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu 'Subject: Re: Following the grain

Barry 

Thanks for your ideas.  I am sure that no one has done any definitivetesting
on this theme, and it only goes to show ya that all of us are in oneway or
another a bunch of hidebound old fogies.  What works for me andfitsmy
perception of things is what I am going to use.  I come 
from pre-Garrisonand much of my way of doing things is self developed.  I
had no fount ofknowledge such as this rod list, no Master's Guide to Building
a BambooRod,just had to do my thing and determine what best I liked. 
Meaning nodisrespect, I do get a little tired of some of us who continually
wantsomeone else to do their thinking for them.  Some of my early
experimentsand work by some of my colleagues, a long time ago soured me
on theintegrity of splices.  My opinions stem 
from those experiments.  I admitthat even I (God Forbid) can be wrong.  BUT I
do what I like and like what Ido. 

And thanks Bob, I like the company too 

Ralph 

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jan  7 11:22:56 2000

"Kling, Barry W.",Rod Makers List Serve

Subject: RE: Following the grain

Dear Old Dog:

I'm learning a lot too, and I rarely learn anything 
from people with "weak"opinions....

Middle Aged Dog

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

As for cutting fibers in a nodeless rod, before splitting the culm I sawoutthe
nodes, making the cut far enough above and below the node to
alsoremovethe thickened area near by. So I do cut all the fibers between the
nodes. Ibelieve this is how others do it, too.

Barry,This I understand,  What I was trying to point out, and I was not
veryclear about it, is that the continuous power fibers between your
splicesarein tact, and that you make your cut and splice as close to the node
aspossible.  I built ONE nodeless rod, and while I did have to cut the nodesout,
my cuts were as close to the node as possible, and all the fibers fromsplice
to splice were still intact.  Why only one???  Splice failure.  Ibuilt it using my
6' 4wt taper and had a splice failure in the middle of therod and one in the
butt section.  After that, I decided "nodes may not bepretty, but they don't
come unglued"  so I went right back to the "old way".Oh, and I hope you or
anyone else isn't getting upset with me for my"stong" opinion on this. 
Frankly, I think this is the best discussion wehave had on this board in a long
long time... Well, since I have been backto the board!  Even though I may
never change the way I build rods, I stillwant to learn, and a good debate is
the best classroom there is... you CANteach an old dog new tricks  : ^ )

Later,Bob

from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jan  7 11:23:45 2000

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

Finally!The best idea for what to do with all those surplus nodes generated by
thenodeless rodmakers. Send the nodes to the node rodmakers.
Conservationandrecycling at its best.Steve

Guys,

Been thinking about building a complete rod of nodes. Seems like if thestrip
breaks between the nodes, the nodes just have to be tougher.Measuredsome
nodes and they are about 1>1.5" long. Going to be a pile of splices.Anyone
ever attempt this?

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Jan  7 11:31:50 2000

Subject: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

John:I was an Army "Advisor" over there '62 - '63, volunteered to go,
seemedlikea good idea at the time, pls. pardon the digression, not too unlike
"whetherTrout suffers pain when hooked".  (PLEASE let's don't go there
again).

But while on horror stories:Issue 3 of BFR magazine cites an incident of an
accidental alcohol lampexplosion ( after he put the Bic to the wick) in a
rodmaker's shop and thevictim was quoted as not worrying about "Why?" but
bought a heat gun forfuture use and went 
from there.  I have a lamp, not used yet, that I boughtwith intentions of using
it in removing tip-tops and  ferrules and forstraightening sets.  I don't make
rods yet and may never, and hadn'tplannedon a heat gun in my
refinishing/restoration efforts.  Haven't seen anyfollow-up in BBFR.  I still
wonder what caused the explosion.  Anyone wantto provide alcohol lamp "do's
& don'ts" for our future safety?I thank you in advance.Ed

JohnEspecially if it's a radial arm saw and you are ripping and you have
theblade set in the wrong direction.

Jack

strip of bamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese Punji Stake.If  I
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you, askme
about it.Ed

Ed(snipped)was killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of
oakkicking back and going completely thru his stomach. Never stand
directlybehind the blade on a table saw.John

from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Jan  7 11:32:55 2000

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI
readily admit it.  As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely
parallel, but just HOW far do they wander?  Micrometers?Millimeters?
Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of an inch? Iwould assume
that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important)
than the final planed strip, then planed down tofinal, might not you plane
away all of  those wandering fibers?  Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm
to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of
us do that?  I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal
strip ofbamboo  in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber
(cell),and observe how, over a several inch length section, the attached
fibersforming a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice
thing about the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider

At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob,

I don't know how much time might be saved if any.  I was thinking interms of
getting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splits ata slow
pace.  The need to straighten sweeps would still be there.  

Chris---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM:

Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting, and
they way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off the band
saw.  I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the saw cutoff
of the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it so just click
on it and it'll give you the pic)
http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg  andyou'll
see that the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, very fast
crook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most severe
sweep I have seen at a node).  If you were to index, somehow, so that youcut
the strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuch
longer than splitting, and you would still have to straighten the strip.  My

understanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down the
preparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminating the
need to straighten.  I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing
straight throughthis section would have definitely made a number of "cross
cuts" to the power fibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips,
that is how they were done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of
sorts, to insure accurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not
have to be straightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going
to saw, the purpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. 
If you index, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing strips
that would look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or time at
all.  Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially if trying to
"follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjust
splitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at
the lower strip in the picture, it is a hand split, straightened strip out of the
same culm.  The only difference betweenthis and the only sawn strips I have
ever seen is that this one maintained the integrity of the power fibers and
the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just
confused as to why anyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to
the time andtrouble to follow the grain.  Splitting is EASY in comparason to
trying to cut alongthe grain.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as yousay
once they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweeping bends are due to a
twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.  If the culm was
initially split in half, and thus the grain is followed to that point as I said
previously, or if it were split further intoquarters or sixths, then the grain
has been followed up to that point.  Sawing 3/16" strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the grain. I think the
significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmore due to
sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to

the twist in the culm and then following the split line.  Just my opinion.

Chris

---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM:

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain of thecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split andready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.   Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,
itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of the strip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps in thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
have butvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
notonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of continuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplit aculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grain andsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we" could
dowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting as ifitis
superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Jan  7 11:43:52 2000

0500

Subject: RE: Following the grain 

Hey, regardless which is "better" I just wanted to put in a word on
behalfofmaligned nodes everywhere....I think nodes ARE pretty. Ever see a
Parkerrod (toname just one)? The nodes stand out but with a really pretty
color andlook tothem. I guess that digustubus non est disputandum (if I
remember my Latinwellenough that's "there's no disputing taste")...

-----Original Message-----

After that, I decided "nodes may not bepretty, but they don't come unglued" 

from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Jan  7 11:47:23 2000

"Rod Makers List Serve" 

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Some folks apparently are under the assumption that a fiber is a singlecell
that runs the full length of an internode, i.e. 
from node to node.  Isuspect that you will find that what you are calling a
fiber is a series ofindividual elongate, thick-walled cells "glued" together in a
longitudinaldirection to form a fiber.  Indeed, others may be interpreting a
"fiber" asthe entire grouping of a bunch of fibers forming a fiber bundle--
thosegroups of dark areas one sees in a transverse (cross) section of
bamboo.J. Snider.

At 11:02 AM 01/07/2000 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:As for cutting fibers in a
nodeless rod, before splitting the culm I sawoutthe nodes, making the cut far
enough above and below the node to alsoremovethe thickened area near by.
So I do cut all the fibers between the nodes. Ibelieve this is how others do it,
too.

Barry,This I understand,  What I was trying to point out, and I was not
veryclear about it, is that the continuous power fibers between your
splicesarein tact, and that you make your cut and splice as close to the node
aspossible.  I built ONE nodeless rod, and while I did have to cut the nodesout,
my cuts were as close to the node as possible, and all the fibersfromsplice
to splice were still intact.  Why only one???  Splice failure.  Ibuilt it using my
6' 4wt taper and had a splice failure in the middle of therod and one in the
butt section.  After that, I decided "nodes may not bepretty, but they don't
come unglued"  so I went right back to the "oldway".Oh, and I hope you or
anyone else isn't getting upset with me for my"stong" opinion on this. 
Frankly, I think this is the best discussion wehave had on this board in a long
long time... Well, since I have been backto the board!  Even though I may
never change the way I build rods, I stillwant to learn, and a good debate is
the best classroom there is... you CANteach an old dog new tricks  : ^ )

Later,Bob

from bhoy@inmind.com Fri Jan  7 11:49:31 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:05:34 -0500

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

I was describing the method described on Thomas Penrose's siteand
elsewhere using calipers. Instead of using the jaws, you use the little tailpiece
thingy that sticks out of the end to measure the depth. The picture on the
site may clarify what I'm talking about:

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/forms4.htm

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can take a measurement seventeentimes
using that method and get different readings each time, varying by
hundredths, much less thousandths. I've tried to think of ways using  a depth
gauge or the rod method without closing the forms, but I'm just not that
smart. When i made my wooden forms, I overshot the tip end morethan once,
sanding down to finally get where I wanted to be. I'm leery about spending so
much time with metal forms if they will wind up as a pole for my bird feeder.

At 09:40 AM 01/07/2000 , nobler wrote:You have something wrong with
your dial indicator/depth gauge, as I havethesame make, and it has no way
for it to be tipped when measuring depth,froma flat surface. This may be a
description problem ???

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" 

Cc: Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 8:12 AMSubject: Cutting groove depth
(was 60 degree tool)

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone when
youarecutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurementwould seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, totheprocess. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
justnotaccurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a bad
readingbytipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
thegroovevisually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of the
tailpieceso it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is accurate
andconsistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end
(Don'taskme how I know this).

Thanks,

Bill Hoy

At 12:54 AM 01/07/2000 , Rick C. wrote:John,

The 60* lathe tool will work very well on the CRS forms if donecarefully.  The
lathe tool will cut much faster than the file so becareful.  I recommend the
following:

1. make sure the jig is made to set the tool 90* to the top of the form

2. alternate several strokes of the tool with several passes of thetriangular
file jig so as to stay on the center line of the form.  Thetool, having a
shorter profile than the file, is more likely to cut oneside more than the
other.  The file will put it back on centerline sinceit is longer and will take out
the high spots more easily.

3. it is imperative to cut the groove in the TIP SIDE FIRST.  It is veryeasy to
overcut the groove with the lathe tool.  If you do, you getanother shot at it
by trying the tip side taper again on the other sideof the form and make the
first fouled up tip side into a butt taper.

4. I used a cutting oil and that seemed to reduce chatter, but stopcutting
with the tool when you get to within .003" of the finaldimensions.  Finish with
the triangular file jig to remove any chattermarks.  Tilting the tool forward
reduces/eliminates chatter as wellBUTit also changes the angle which you
are cutting.  The tool needs to beset perfectly perpendicular to the length
and width axis of the forms.

Rick C.

John Collier wrote:

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, howeverthe60degree
V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there anyother wayto
achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree file epoxiedtoplywood.  I
know it is possible to use a lathe bit when buildingwoodenforms, but will this
work on metal?  All suggestions are greatlyappreciated!

John Collier

Bill Hoy

Bill Hoy

from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan  7 12:13:58 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan  7 12:18:18 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

Ed  I wondered about that too.  In my experience alcohol has such a lowflash
point that an explosion would seem virtually impossible.  I haveused an alcohol
lamp for many years and even before rodmaking I used onein chemistry labs. 
(almost before bunsen burner times.).  Any othervolitile liquid in an alcohol
lamp might be dangerous.  The only problemI have ever had is that if spilled
and ignited, the blue flame is hardto see and could cause a fire.

Still the best source of cool heat for bamboo rods.Ralph

from Jerrymorton@email.msn.com Fri Jan  7 12:28:30 2000

SMTPSVC;Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:27:58 -0800

Subject: Sawn Strips

Well isn't this a fine mess.  Lets generalize a little bit.  First of allbamboo is a
type of wood fiber.  In any other wood, whether it be thefinestwalnut or a
simple piece of pine, there is usually internal stresses in thewood when it is
standing timber and after it makes its way to your workbench.  This stress
may manifest itself in several ways.

The first and most noticeable occurs when a board is ripped. Start with
aperfect 6 inch wide board, rip it into 2 equal sized pieces, and it ispossible
to wind up with 2 pieces severely warped.  This is caused by theinternal
stress in the original piece.  Why would we expect bamboo toperform any
differently.  We could expect some ripped strips to perfectlystraight and
some to have some wild curvatures.  Following the grain doesnot guarantee
straight strips.  The fiber positioning was determined whilethe plant was
growing and was influenced by sunlight, adjacent plants,windand many other
natural factors.  And so goes the possibility of straight orwarped strips.

As far as the discussion of the problem of cutting the power fibers
whenripping goes.  This is done to a certain degree when planing.  Even under

atthe top of the pyramid.

from dickay@alltel.net Fri Jan  7 12:29:44 2000

MAA02396;

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

Ed,

Having worked in the Comfort Conditioning industry and in the
AutomotiveService area, I know that a container full of fumes is much more
explosivethan a container full of flammable liquid.  Thus, I propose that
theexploding alcohol lamp was almost totally empty.  Upon application of
theflame to the wick the escaping fumes were ignited and went back into
thecontainer and ignited the fumes there causing an explosion.

I have heard of gas tanks exploding when someone tried to repair them
bysoldering on a patch.  Even though the tank had been dry for several
days,there were still fumes in the tank.  A lot of these fumes are heavier
thanair and will puddle in a container and stay there.

I have seen a car gas tank successfully repaired and the repairman
hadturned the tank so that the opening was to the ground for several days
andregularly purged the tank with compressed air.  Before attempting
therepair, he then filled the tank with water to further force out
anyremaining fumes.

I have not tried this and won't.  Before the repair I walked across thestreet
and watched 
from there as I thought he was crazy.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

John:I was an Army "Advisor" over there '62 - '63, volunteered to go,
seemedlikea good idea at the time, pls. pardon the digression, not too
unlike"whetherTrout suffers pain when hooked".  (PLEASE let's don't go there
again).

But while on horror stories:Issue 3 of BFR magazine cites an incident of an
accidental alcohol lampexplosion ( after he put the Bic to the wick) in a
rodmaker's shop and thevictim was quoted as not worrying about "Why?" but
bought a heat gunforfuture use and went 
from there.  I have a lamp, not used yet, that Iboughtwith intentions of using
it in removing tip-tops and  ferrules and forstraightening sets.  I don't make
rods yet and may never, and hadn'tplannedon a heat gun in my
refinishing/restoration efforts.  Haven't seen anyfollow-up in BBFR.  I still
wonder what caused the explosion.  Anyonewantto provide alcohol lamp "do's
& don'ts" for our future safety?I thank you in advance.Ed

JohnEspecially if it's a radial arm saw and you are ripping and you have
theblade set in the wrong direction.

Jack

strip of bamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese PunjiStake.If  I
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you,askme
about it.Ed

Ed(snipped)was killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of
oakkicking back and going completely thru his stomach. Never stand
directlybehind the blade on a table saw.John

from dickay@alltel.net Fri Jan  7 12:45:31 2000

MAA00676;

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by Chris
Bogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he usually
hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or stove of
hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan  7 13:12:29 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:14:07 -0600

RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Radio Rod

Peter,

I was given a 9 ft, 3-pc, two tipped "Radio" rod by my grandfather whenI was
about 11 years old.  The rod is dark cane, with a swelled butt,has nicely done
drawn Nickel Silver ferrules with handsome welts added.Ferrules are pinned
of course.  The reelseat is all Nickle SilverDownlocking with a sliding band. 
The grip is a six inch coca-colabottle shaped of 1" rings.  My rod has
black/white jasper wraps on theferrules, at the grip and at the signature
wraps.  There are more than160 beige intermediate wraps on that rod
including the extra tip.  Thestripper is agate and the tip tops were too as I
recall, but grandad hadreplaced one with an old Perfection tiptop.  He had
also rewrappedseveral guides with common cotton sewing thread, green in
some places,red in others and varnished his repair work.  It was, after all,
afishing rod which was USED and was a cherished TOOL.  The decal
wasfroman old sporting goods store here in town established in the late
1800'sbut I guessed that the rod was 
from the twenties or thirties. He had anew fiberglass Shakespeare
Wonderod! so he gave me the old cane stick. I have the Shakespeare rod as
well.

Grandad taught me to cast on that rod (I think I stripped that oldsticky silk
line off the Pflueger 1774 reel that he gave me with it andput a new level,
camoflage plastic line on it).  The rod casts a fiveweight very well, but an
eleven year old's patience is not quite what isrequired for that 9 footer
which gives one time enough to quote bibleverses between strokes.  The rod
would make a super wet fly rod (alaReed Curry-style).  I caught many a
bream (bluegill to you northerners)on that rod.  

I investigated the rod several years ago.  Dick Spurr said that Edwardsmade
a rod with the 'Radio' name on it and it matched the description ofseveral
Radio rods he has sold.  In fact, I have seen similar rods forsale on his site
and some are called Edwards and others Winchester, butI believe the rods to
have been made by Edwards for resale by sportinggoods stores and chain
stores such as A&F and the store which sold myrod.  The rods are definitely
high quality but the ones I've seen sold

Rick Crenshaw

Peter Collin wrote:

I have a 9 foot, 3pc 5 weight rod that I acquired a year ago.  It was inrough
shape, but seemed to be of rather high quality.  All the hardware isnickel
silver, it had a handsome swelled butt and attractiveintermediatewraps.  It is
Stamped "Radio Rod" on the metal reel seat.

Who made this rod?  It seems like it would be rather old - as a
freindmentioned, there was a time when the moniker "Radio" was attached
tocommercial products to imply cutting edge technology, much the sameway
that"Lazer"  or "Rocket" would be used today.  Has anybody heard of it?

Peter Collin

from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan  7 13:29:27 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:30:54 -0600

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

Bill, that is an excellent question.  My best response is this:

Using a lathe tool, you can cut fast and you can adjust the depth of thetool
versus adjusting width of the forms.  Once you have started cuttinga groove
which you know to be shallower than your desired finishedgroove, close the
forms up, measure the depth at a given location usingyour 60* dial
indicator/depth gauge, then open the forms up a bit usingshimstock or feeler
gauges (I used an old set of feeler gauges) to keepthe gap uniform.  Now
measure the marked location again and work down

from there.  GO SLOW!  The triangle gauge is used lightly and is drawndown
the entire length of the forms just to 'clean up' the groove andkeep it
straight.  Shoot for .020 tip so if you go over you won't be tooscrewed. 
Also, if you build 2 or 3 weight rods, .030" can be too deep

If you screw up, a vixen file can help you get back to where you want tobe. 
Don't be too discouraged though, the metal won't work down as fastas the
wood forms which I had to replane and redo so many times that Ispent less
time making my metal ones.  Just keep monitoring the cut withthe Dial
indicator.

Good Luck,Rick C.

Bill Hoy wrote:

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone when
youarecutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurementwould seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, to theprocess. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
just notaccurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a bad
reading bytipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
thegroovevisually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of the
tailpieceso it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is accurate
andconsistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end (Don't
askme how I know this).

Thanks,

Bill Hoy

At 12:54 AM 01/07/2000 , Rick C. wrote:John,

The 60* lathe tool will work very well on the CRS forms if donecarefully.  The
lathe tool will cut much faster than the file so becareful.  I recommend the
following:

1. make sure the jig is made to set the tool 90* to the top of the form

2. alternate several strokes of the tool with several passes of thetriangular
file jig so as to stay on the center line of the form.  Thetool, having a
shorter profile than the file, is more likely to cut oneside more than the
other.  The file will put it back on centerline sinceit is longer and will take out
the high spots more easily.

3. it is imperative to cut the groove in the TIP SIDE FIRST.  It is veryeasy to
overcut the groove with the lathe tool.  If you do, you getanother shot at it
by trying the tip side taper again on the other sideof the form and make the
first fouled up tip side into a butt taper.

4. I used a cutting oil and that seemed to reduce chatter, but stopcutting
with the tool when you get to within .003" of the finaldimensions.  Finish with
the triangular file jig to remove any chattermarks.  Tilting the tool forward
reduces/eliminates chatter as wellBUTit also changes the angle which you
are cutting.  The tool needs to be>set perfectly perpendicular to the length
and width axis of the forms.

Rick C.

John Collier wrote:

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, however the60degree
V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there anyother wayto
achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree file epoxied toplywood.  I
know it is possible to use a lathe bit when buildingwoodenforms, but will this
work on metal?  All suggestions are greatlyappreciated!

John Collier

Bill Hoy

from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Fri Jan  7 13:35:43 2000

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

Bill,

I have been (slowly) building my final steel planing forms over the
lastfewmonths.  I am at the point where I am ready to file the grooves.
Accuratelymeasuring the groove depth has been a concern of mine as well.  I
amplanning on using the drill rod method that Chris Bogart describes on
hissite, as this seems to be the most accurate method of measuring
groovedepth.  Additionally, it has the benefit of insuring that the groove
isactually 60 degrees if you use two different size drill rods.  I don't see
areason why this wouldn't work.

Another concern of mine is that it seems like it will be difficult tomeasure
the gap between the bars while you index them closer together tofile the
groove deeper.  Maybe not initially, but it seems that, eventually,the bars
must get pretty close together at the deep end.  I don't think Iwill be able to
measure it with my dial calipers.  So I was thinking thatyou could just
measure the _outside_ of the bars.  It shouldn't make adifference in
accuracy, but it seems like it would be easier to measure.

Any thoughts on this?

Keith Brewster

Bil Hoy wrote.....

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone when
youarecutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurementwould seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, to theprocess. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
just notaccurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a bad
reading bytipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
thegroovevisually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of the
tailpieceso it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is accurate
andconsistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end (Don't
askme how I know this).

from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan  7 13:41:23 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:41:54 -0600

Subject: Re: Cutting groove correction

Scratch "triangle gauge" - that should be "triangle file"!!Rick C. wrote:

Bill, that is an excellent question.  My best response is this:

Using a lathe tool, you can cut fast and you can adjust the depth of thetool
versus adjusting width of the forms.  Once you have started cuttinga groove
which you know to be shallower than your desired finishedgroove, close the
forms up, measure the depth at a given location usingyour 60* dial
indicator/depth gauge, then open the forms up a bit usingshimstock or feeler
gauges (I used an old set of feeler gauges) to keepthe gap uniform.  Now
measure the marked location again and work down

from there.  GO SLOW!  The triangle gauge is used lightly and is drawndown
the entire length of the forms just to 'clean up' the groove andkeep it
straight.  Shoot for .020 tip so if you go over you won't be tooscrewed. 
Also, if you build 2 or 3 weight rods, .030" can be too deep

If you screw up, a vixen file can help you get back to where you want tobe. 
Don't be too discouraged though, the metal won't work down as fastas the
wood forms which I had to replane and redo so many times that Ispent less
time making my metal ones.  Just keep monitoring the cutwiththe Dial
indicator.

Good Luck,Rick C.

Bill Hoy wrote:

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone when
youarecutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurementwould seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, totheprocess. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
justnotaccurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a bad
readingbytipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
thegroovevisually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of the
tailpieceso it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is accurate
andconsistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end
(Don'taskme how I know this).

Thanks,

Bill Hoy

At 12:54 AM 01/07/2000 , Rick C. wrote:John,

The 60* lathe tool will work very well on the CRS forms if donecarefully.  The
lathe tool will cut much faster than the file so becareful.  I recommend the
following:

1. make sure the jig is made to set the tool 90* to the top of the form

2. alternate several strokes of the tool with several passes of thetriangular
file jig so as to stay on the center line of the form.  Thetool, having a
shorter profile than the file, is more likely to cut oneside more than the
other.  The file will put it back on centerline sinceit is longer and will take out
the high spots more easily.

3. it is imperative to cut the groove in the TIP SIDE FIRST.  It is veryeasy to
overcut the groove with the lathe tool.  If you do, you getanother shot at it
by trying the tip side taper again on the other sideof the form and make the
first fouled up tip side into a butt taper.

4. I used a cutting oil and that seemed to reduce chatter, but stopcutting
with the tool when you get to within .003" of the finaldimensions.  Finish with
the triangular file jig to remove any chattermarks.  Tilting the tool forward
reduces/eliminates chatter as wellBUTit also changes the angle which you
are cutting.  The tool needs to beset perfectly perpendicular to the length
and width axis of the forms.

Rick C.

John Collier wrote:

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, howeverthe 60degree
V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there anyother wayto
achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree file epoxiedtoplywood.  I
know it is possible to use a lathe bit when buildingwoodenforms, but will this
work on metal?  All suggestions are greatlyappreciated!

John Collier

Bill Hoy

from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Jan  7 13:42:55 2000

Subject: taper info

Hi Guy'sAnybody out there have the taper for a Leonard 7' 4 wt 38 H T.I.A
Joe

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan  7 13:48:12 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:48:00 -0800

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

So I was thinking that you could just measure the _outside_ of the bars.
Itshouldn't make adifference in accuracy, but it seems like it would be easier
to measure.

Any thoughts on this?

Keith Brewster

Keith,Sounds like it ought to work.  Just close up the forms first
andmeasureand record at each station.  That way you'll know where you
started.Wish I had thought of that when building my forms.  Be
carefulthinkingin such practical terms.  Some of us are likely to figure out
that you'reprettysmart.  Then we'll start asking YOU questions! >smile
from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Jan  7 14:06:59 2000

Subject:  alcohol lamp

All:I'm looking at the Safety Rules that accompanied my burner.  They're a
bitlengthy and I'm concerned about my having burned (no pun intended) a
lotofbandwidth here lately so, contact me off-list if you want me to
providewhatthey say.  If there's enough interest, I'll send to List.Ed

from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Fri Jan  7 14:09:47 2000

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

That's fine.  How does the saying go?

Answers: $ .25Answers requiring thought: $ .50Correct answers $ 1.00

Dumb looks are still free. :-)

Keith

Sounds like it ought to work.  Just close up the forms first andmeasureand
record at each station.  That way you'll know where you started.Wish I had
thought of that when building my forms.  Be carefulthinkingin such practical
terms.  Some of us are likely to figure out that you'reprettysmart.  Then
we'll start asking YOU questions! >smile
from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jan  7 14:10:09 2000

saweiss@flash.net

Subject: RE: Building noded rods

While you guys work to perfect the all-node rod I'm going to work on theall-
pith pole.

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by Chris
Bogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he usually
hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or stove of
hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from jhat@cbt.net Fri Jan  7 14:17:08 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:24:05 -0600

Subject: Re: follow the grain

Well  put Preacher..Like " Blue Eyes" always saidI done it my way??Jim

Harry Boyd wrote:

Davidhray1@aol.com wrote:

. Do it your way and enjoy it. But again just my opinion.

David H. Ray

Good thoughts, David -- but if we follow that line of thinking to itslogical
conclusion, then Terry Ackland is right, the list is pointless.Sometimes a
little friendly discussion on the relative and perceivedmerits of"my way's
better'n yours" prompts us to change this, or tweak that, orreconsiderthis. 
And that's what makes this list so valuable, not just for rankbeginners,or
relative newcomers like me, or longtimers like Ralph.Really I think you and I
agree that all the opinions are worthhearing,and sharing, but none of us is
omniscient (omniscient basically means"all-knowing" - so someone won't
flame me for using a big word!)

--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from bhoy@inmind.com Fri Jan  7 14:22:37 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:48:45 -0500

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

Keith,I don't think the metal rod method will work in this way. It is an
accurate method of measuring the closed forms, but by tapering the gap of
the form to mill the groove, you'd  measure the same depth all along the
form if everything is going as it should. To find out what the actual depth is,
you'd have to close the form. That means retapering the gap when you go
back to cutting the groove.... probably again and again, which seems to
introduce a lot of variability into the process. And there's still no guarantee
you wouldn't overshoot. But maybe I'm just impatient. Is thishow everybody
else did it?

As to measuring the taper, I used  an eighth-inch wide metal bar to serve as
a spacer, and put a .005 feeler gauge blade along side, adding .005 at each
successive station. A $10 deluxe feeler gauge set has all the blades you need
to cover a six-foot form. I don't see any reason why you couldn't measure
the outside of the form. You'd have to measure each stationclosed, write it
down and add a specified gap plus .005 as you go up. You couldn't do it
station-by-station because opening the previous station could introduce an
unknown gap to the next station. (does this make sense? In other words, if
you have a gap introduced by opening a previous station, you wouldn't be
starting 
from zero and you couldn't be sure that the gap was correct).

Bill h

At 02:34 PM 01/07/2000 , Keith Brewster wrote:Bill,

I have been (slowly) building my final steel planing forms over the
lastfewmonths.  I am at the point where I am ready to file the grooves.
Accuratelymeasuring the groove depth has been a concern of mine as well.  I
amplanning on using the drill rod method that Chris Bogart describes on
hissite, as this seems to be the most accurate method of measuring
groovedepth.  Additionally, it has the benefit of insuring that the groove
isactually 60 degrees if you use two different size drill rods.  I don't see
areason why this wouldn't work.

Another concern of mine is that it seems like it will be difficult tomeasure
the gap between the bars while you index them closer togethertofile the
groove deeper.  Maybe not initially, but it seems that, eventually,the bars
must get pretty close together at the deep end.  I don't think Iwill be able to
measure it with my dial calipers.  So I was thinking thatyou could just
measure the _outside_ of the bars.  It shouldn't make adifference in
accuracy, but it seems like it would be easier to measure.

Any thoughts on this?

Keith Brewster

Bil Hoy wrote.....

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone when
youarecutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurementwould seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, to theprocess. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
justnotaccurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a bad reading
bytipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
thegroovevisually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of the
tailpieceso it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is accurate
andconsistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end
(Don'taskme how I know this).

Bill Hoy

from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jan  7 14:41:05 2000

Subject: Re: Radio Rod

edriddle@mindspring.com, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu

In a message dated 1/7/00 5:57:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nobler@satx.rr.com writes:

I believe someone asked this question a couple of years ago and the rod, I
believe, turned out to be a H-I trade rod. Check the archieves.

Don Burns

from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan  7 14:44:49 2000

Subject: Re: Sawn Strips

Strips that have been straight sawn 
from a culm cannot be planed. The waythegrain dog legs either side of the
node makes for against the grain planingandwill cause tearouts.Try it on a
scrap piece.

Jerry Morton wrote:

Well isn't this a fine mess.  Lets generalize a little bit.  First of allbamboo is a
type of wood fiber.  In any other wood, whether it be thefinestwalnut or a
simple piece of pine, there is usually internal stresses inthewood when it is
standing timber and after it makes its way to your workbench.  This stress
may manifest itself in several ways.

The first and most noticeable occurs when a board is ripped. Start with
aperfect 6 inch wide board, rip it into 2 equal sized pieces, and it ispossible
to wind up with 2 pieces severely warped.  This is caused by theinternal
stress in the original piece.  Why would we expect bamboo toperform any
differently.  We could expect some ripped strips toperfectlystraight and
some to have some wild curvatures.  Following the graindoesnot guarantee
straight strips.  The fiber positioning was determinedwhilethe plant was
growing and was influenced by sunlight, adjacent plants,windand many other
natural factors.  And so goes the possibility of straightorwarped strips.

As far as the discussion of the problem of cutting the power fibers
whenripping goes.  This is done to a certain degree when planing.  Even under

atthe top of the pyramid.

from landeens@home.com Fri Jan  7 14:53:15 2000

with SMTP

;Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:53:12 -0800

Subject: Re: Sawn Strips

The last six rods I have built were 
from strips I had sawed with a bandsaw.I never had one tearout and they
planed just fine. They were actually a lotbetter than my hand split strips in
that they were square and easier toworkwith. The rods have fished great and
I can't tell any difference in theconstruction or the casting with rods that
have been hand split or sawn.

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Sawn Strips

Strips that have been straight sawn 
from a culm cannot be planed. Thewaythegrain dog legs either side of the
node makes for against the grain planingandwill cause tearouts.Try it on a
scrap piece.

Jerry Morton wrote:

Well isn't this a fine mess.  Lets generalize a little bit.  First ofallbamboo is a
type of wood fiber.  In any other wood, whether it be thefinestwalnut or a
simple piece of pine, there is usually internal stresses inthewood when it is
standing timber and after it makes its way to yourworkbench.  This stress
may manifest itself in several ways.

The first and most noticeable occurs when a board is ripped. Start
withaperfect 6 inch wide board, rip it into 2 equal sized pieces, and it
ispossible to wind up with 2 pieces severely warped.  This is caused
bytheinternal stress in the original piece.  Why would we expect bamboo
toperform any differently.  We could expect some ripped strips
toperfectlystraight and some to have some wild curvatures.  Following the
graindoesnot guarantee straight strips.  The fiber positioning was
determinedwhilethe plant was growing and was influenced by sunlight,
adjacent plants,windand many other natural factors.  And so goes the
possibility of straightorwarped strips.

As far as the discussion of the problem of cutting the power
fiberswhenripping goes.  This is done to a certain degree when planing. 
Evenunder

onesatthe top of the pyramid.

from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Jan  7 15:09:02 2000

(may be forged))

thompson.flyshop with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
ServiceVersion 5.5.2650.21)

Subject: I found this item on The Virtual Flyshop website and thought
youmight beinterested.

I saw this item for sale at The Virtual Flyshop and thought you might
beinterested.Ed

Item Title: Garrison style Planing Form for crafting cane rodsPrice: $170.00
@ 2:14PM MST on 1/7/00

Auction Closes at 5:20PM MST on 1/13/00You can place a bid at
http://www.flyshop.com/marketplace/index.cfm?content=auction&page=index&ID=22378&action=details&fullblown=true

Item Description:       Garrison Style planing form. Made 
from cold rolled steel, 5' long,11/2"wide,3/4"thick,differential screws at 5"
centers .001/inch slope, used very little.Purchased thru"the Planing Form
"publication 
from Gene Hughes's Second Ave Bait Housein Iowa in '95paid $375 + shipping.
EX. cond.

from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan  7 15:21:46 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Sawn Strips

Very interesting Terry.  I would never have suspected what you said,
butwhen you bring up the point, it makes perfect sense.  I presume that
avery sharp blade and careful work might minimize the tearout.Ralph

from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Fri Jan  7 15:40:55 2000

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

Bill,

You're exactly right!  The drill rod method measures the _total_ depth ofthe
groove, not the depth of the groove filed on the form; the 'shoulder',if you
will.  Brain fart on my part.

BUT, I think this will still work.  It just involves a little math.  Giventhe gap
between the bars, G, and the total depth of the groove, Dg, the'shoulder'
depth (Ds) of the groove on the form (the depth when fullyclosed) should be
given by the formula:

Ds = Dg - (G * tan60) / 2

thegroove depth on the form is:

.155 - (.158 * tan 60) / 2  = .155 - (.158 * 1.732) / 2 = 0.0182

This should be correct if I have my geometry right.

Regarding the gap measurement, you are right again.  Thanks for pointingthis
out.  I had forgotten that the station-to-station gap difference iscritical. 
The feeler gauge is a really good idea!  I might give it a try.Thanks.

Keith

I don't think the metal rod method will work in this way. It is an
accuratemethod of measuring the closed forms, but by tapering the gap of
theformto mill the groove, you'd  measure the same depth all along the form
ifeverything is going as it should. To find out what the actual depth is,you'd
have to close the form. That means retapering the gap when you goback to
cutting the groove.... probably again and again, which seems tointroduce a lot
of variability into the process. And there's still noguarantee you wouldn't
overshoot. But maybe I'm just impatient. Is thishoweverybody else did it?

As to measuring the taper, I used  an eighth-inch wide metal bar to serveas a
spacer, and put a .005 feeler gauge blade along side, adding .005 ateach
successive station. A $10 deluxe feeler gauge set has all the bladesyou need
to cover a six-foot form. I don't see any reason why you couldn'tmeasure the
outside of the form. You'd have to measure each stationclosed,write it down
and add a specified gap plus .005 as you go up. You couldn'tdo it station-by-
station because opening the previous station couldintroduce an unknown gap
to the next station. (does this make sense? Inother words, if you have a gap
introduced by opening a previous station,you wouldn't be starting 
from zero and you couldn't be sure that the gapwas correct).

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 15:57:23 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:48:10 -0600

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

I misunderstood the type of dial caliper you are using. Really these are
forgeneral measurements. The dial depth gauge I'm speaking of, that has
a60*probe in the end, is what I thought you meant. This will measure to
lessthan .001".

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60 degree tool)

I was describing the method described on Thomas Penrose's siteand
elsewhere using calipers. Instead of using the jaws, you use thelittletailpiece
thingy that sticks out of the end to measure the depth. Thepicture on the
site may clarify what I'm talking about:

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/forms4.htm

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can take a measurement
seventeentimesusing that method and get different readings each time,
varying byhundredths, much less thousandths. I've tried to think of ways
using  adepth gauge or the rod method without closing the forms, but I'm
justnotthat smart. When i made my wooden forms, I overshot the tip end
morethanonce, sanding down to finally get where I wanted to be. I'm leery
aboutspending so much time with metal forms if they will wind up as a
poleformy bird feeder.

At 09:40 AM 01/07/2000 , nobler wrote:You have something wrong with
your dial indicator/depth gauge, as Ihavethesame make, and it has no way for
it to be tipped when measuring depth,froma flat surface. This may be a
description problem ???

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" 

Cc: Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 8:12 AMSubject: Cutting groove depth
(was 60 degree tool)

This begs the question, "How do you know how far you've gone
whenyouarecutting the groove?" Resetting the forms every time you take
ameasurementwould seem to introduce a lot of variability, not to mention
time, totheprocess. The recommended use of the tail end of a dial caliper is
justnotaccurate, at least in my experience. It's too easy to get a badreading
bytipping the instrument and you have to determine the bottom of
thegroovevisually; besides, my mitutoyo has a  little nib cut out of
thetailpieceso it isn't even square. Is there a method/formula that is
accurateandconsistent? It's awfully easy to overshoot .030" on the tip end
(Don'taskme how I know this).

Thanks,

Bill Hoy

At 12:54 AM 01/07/2000 , Rick C. wrote:John,

The 60* lathe tool will work very well on the CRS forms if donecarefully.  The
lathe tool will cut much faster than the file so becareful.  I recommend the
following:

1. make sure the jig is made to set the tool 90* to the top of theform

2. alternate several strokes of the tool with several passes of thetriangular
file jig so as to stay on the center line of the form.Thetool, having a shorter
profile than the file, is more likely to cutoneside more than the other.  The
file will put it back on centerlinesinceit is longer and will take out the high
spots more easily.

3. it is imperative to cut the groove in the TIP SIDE FIRST.  It isveryeasy to
overcut the groove with the lathe tool.  If you do, you getanother shot at it
by trying the tip side taper again on the othersideof the form and make the
first fouled up tip side into a butt taper.

4. I used a cutting oil and that seemed to reduce chatter, but stopcutting
with the tool when you get to within .003" of the finaldimensions.  Finish with
the triangular file jig to remove anychattermarks.  Tilting the tool forward
reduces/eliminates chatter as wellBUTit also changes the angle which you
are cutting.  The tool needs tobeset perfectly perpendicular to the length
and width axis of theforms.

Rick C.

John Collier wrote:

Hello to all.  I am just about done with my planing form, howeverthe60degree
V is starting to become a major undertaking.  Is there anyother wayto
achieve the bevel?  I am currently using a 60 degree fileepoxiedtoplywood.  I
know it is possible to use a lathe bit when buildingwoodenforms, but will this
work on metal?  All suggestions are greatlyappreciated!

John Collier

Bill Hoy

Bill Hoy

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 16:02:57 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:53:26 -0600

Subject: Re: Following the grain

As I understand it, the wandering of the fibers is not a worry, providingeach
one has the node deformities straightened. This brings all back intogeneral
alignment, so that when planed, a minimum of fibers are cutacrossthe
"grain". Someone correct this, if I'm in error.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI
readily admit it.  As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely
parallel, but just HOW far do they wander?  Micrometers?Millimeters?
Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of aninch?Iwould assume
that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important)
than the final planed strip, then planed down tofinal, might not you plane
away all of  those wandering fibers?  Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm
to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of
us do that?I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip
ofbamboo  in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and
observe how, over a several inch length section, the attached fibersforming
a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about
the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider

At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob,

I don't know how much time might be saved if any.  I was thinking interms
ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the
splitsataslow pace.  The need to straighten sweeps would still be there.

Chris---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM:

Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting,
andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off
thebandsaw.  I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the
sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it
sojustclick on it and it'll give you the
pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg 
andyou'llseethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe,
very fastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most
severesweep I have seen at a node).  If you were to index, somehow, so
thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would
takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten the
strip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down
thepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling,
byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates
how sawing straight throughthissection would have definitely made a number
of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn
strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence"
of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not
have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going
to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips.  If
youindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing
stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or time
atall.  Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftryingto
"follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjustsplitting
the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at the lower
strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out of the same culm. 
The only difference betweenthisand the only sawn strips I have ever seen is
that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers and the sawn strips
did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just confused as
towhyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time
andtrouble tofollow the grain.  Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying to
cut alongthegrain.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as
yousayonce they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting
action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in
half, and thus the grain is followedtothat point as I said previously, or if it
were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up
to that point.  Sawing3/16"strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the grain.Ithink the significant
grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmoredue to sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to

the twist in the culm and then following the split line.  Just myopinion.

Chris

---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM:

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain ofthecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.Just

notstraightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in
thestrip,itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight,oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps inthestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
havebutvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power
fibersnotonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for thegreatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's
postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of
how to handsplit aculm.

But.......

aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by
alternatingpressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

sawtofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we"
coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting
asifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but
theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Jan  7 16:10:16 2000

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

I have used alcohol lamps, both metal and glass, in my lab in at home for35
years and on a very rare occasion have had a lamp "flare up" on me andsinge
the hair on my hands.  I have had no bad experiences.  However, ifthe lamp lid
is not attached tightly, the alcohol can sometimes, undercertain conditions,
"wick out"  over the edge and the results can bedisastrous.  Don't tip the
lamp on edge, or if you do, only slightly.Sometimes the wick is burned very
short, and this may tend to causealcoholto wick out around the outside of
the lamp. When ignited--boom!  Keep thewick extended so that you always
see the white of the wick extendedbeyondthe mouth.  These observations
are being sent quickly as I am on my wayoutthe door.  But they do briefly
summarize experiences I have had.  J. Snider

At 12:28 PM 01/07/2000 -0500, Ed Riddle wrote:John:I was an Army
"Advisor" over there '62 - '63, volunteered to go, seemedlikea good idea at
the time, pls. pardon the digression, not too unlike"whetherTrout suffers
pain when hooked".  (PLEASE let's don't go there again).

But while on horror stories:Issue 3 of BFR magazine cites an incident of an
accidental alcohol lampexplosion ( after he put the Bic to the wick) in a
rodmaker's shop and thevictim was quoted as not worrying about "Why?" but
bought a heat gun forfuture use and went 
from there.  I have a lamp, not used yet, that I boughtwith intentions of using
it in removing tip-tops and  ferrules and forstraightening sets.  I don't make
rods yet and may never, and hadn'tplannedon a heat gun in my
refinishing/restoration efforts.  Haven't seen anyfollow-up in BBFR.  I still
wonder what caused the explosion.  Anyonewantto provide alcohol lamp "do's
& don'ts" for our future safety?I thank you in advance.Ed

JohnEspecially if it's a radial arm saw and you are ripping and you have
theblade set in the wrong direction.

Jack

strip of bamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese Punji Stake.If  I
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you,askme
about it.Ed

Ed(snipped)was killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of
oakkicking back and going completely thru his stomach. Never stand
directlybehind the blade on a table saw.John

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 16:16:09 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:06:58 -0600

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

I have worked with methanol all my life, once buying 7000 gal's. at a pop,to
make model engine fuel. To explode, it either has to be compressed, beina
saturated atmosphere, or contaminated, in some way. Under
normalconditions, it's a thousand times safer than gasoline.

I wonder, if by chance the man used model engine fuel ? This has
nitromethane in it, which is even less volatile than methanol, unless it
iscontaminated with an amine, or chlorine. Then it becomes shock
sensitive,like nitro- glycerin !

As Ralph says, it has a very "quiet" flame, so one must be remindful of
thewick being lit ! Still, there is little to worry with, other than it's anopen
flame.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

Ed  I wondered about that too.  In my experience alcohol has such a lowflash
point that an explosion would seem virtually impossible.  I haveused an alcohol
lamp for many years and even before rodmaking I usedonein chemistry labs. 
(almost before bunsen burner times.).  Any othervolitile liquid in an alcohol
lamp might be dangerous.  The only problemI have ever had is that if spilled
and ignited, the blue flame is hardto see and could cause a fire.

Still the best source of cool heat for bamboo rods.Ralph

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 16:23:11 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:14:06 -0600

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

A good point, about the fumes in an almost empty bottle. Filling the tankwith
water, is the ONLY way to be safe when welding a gas tank leak BTW !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

Ed,

Having worked in the Comfort Conditioning industry and in
theAutomotiveService area, I know that a container full of fumes is much
moreexplosivethan a container full of flammable liquid.  Thus, I propose that
theexploding alcohol lamp was almost totally empty.  Upon application
oftheflame to the wick the escaping fumes were ignited and went back
intothecontainer and ignited the fumes there causing an explosion.

I have heard of gas tanks exploding when someone tried to repair them
bysoldering on a patch.  Even though the tank had been dry for several
days,there were still fumes in the tank.  A lot of these fumes are heavier
thanair and will puddle in a container and stay there.

I have seen a car gas tank successfully repaired and the repairman
hadturned the tank so that the opening was to the ground for several
daysandregularly purged the tank with compressed air.  Before attempting
therepair, he then filled the tank with water to further force out
anyremaining fumes.

I have not tried this and won't.  Before the repair I walked across thestreet
and watched 
from there as I thought he was crazy.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ed Riddle 

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:28 AMSubject: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was
[Sharp bamboo]

John:I was an Army "Advisor" over there '62 - '63, volunteered to go,
seemedlikea good idea at the time, pls. pardon the digression, not too
unlike"whetherTrout suffers pain when hooked".  (PLEASE let's don't go there
again).

But while on horror stories:Issue 3 of BFR magazine cites an incident of an
accidental alcohol lampexplosion ( after he put the Bic to the wick) in a
rodmaker's shop andthevictim was quoted as not worrying about "Why?" but
bought a heat gunforfuture use and went 
from there.  I have a lamp, not used yet, that Iboughtwith intentions of using
it in removing tip-tops and  ferrules and forstraightening sets.  I don't make
rods yet and may never, and hadn'tplannedon a heat gun in my
refinishing/restoration efforts.  Haven't seen anyfollow-up in BBFR.  I still
wonder what caused the explosion.  Anyonewantto provide alcohol lamp "do's
& don'ts" for our future safety?I thank you in advance.Ed

JohnEspecially if it's a radial arm saw and you are ripping and you
havetheblade set in the wrong direction.

Jack

strip of bamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese PunjiStake.If  I
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you,askme
about it.Ed

Ed(snipped)was killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of
oakkicking back and going completely thru his stomach. Never
standdirectlybehind the blade on a table saw.John

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan  7 16:27:00 2000

Subject: [Fwd: Paul Young "Perfectionist"]

boundary="------------C750565F0312ACB69C0EEFB6"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.--------------
C750565F0312ACB69C0EEFB6

Does'nt anyone have any of this info?? Maybe it was because of theproblems
that were happening lately? Hopefully someone out there has oneof these
rods or has access to some info for me.

--------------C750565F0312ACB69C0EEFB6

Organization: New Scotland Flyrods

Subject: Paul Young "Perfectionist"

Iam looking for info on the Paul Young "Perfectionist" model. I believeit is a
7'6" for a 4 wt line. In particular I want: 1) the taper,original prefered; not
doctored versions2)original guide spacing

3)type and size offerrules4)stress curve5)thread wrap colors
/particulars6)info about the gripand reel seats (original )7)Any and all
pertanantinfo about this rod.It's a long list , but I'm looking for DETAILS!! If
anyone owns or hashad the pleasure of casting one of these let me know
your thoughts onthe rod , If you feel the need to ramble about it you can
even send yourresponse directly to me.Thanks in advance!!Shawn Pineo, New
Scotland Flyrods

nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca

--------------C750565F0312ACB69C0EEFB6--

from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 17:18:23 2000

(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:17:49 +0000

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

Ron Barch said he was going to make ash trays out of them and make a
pileofmoney.

Jack-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by Chris
Bogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he usually
hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or stove of
hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W Moon 

Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:11 AMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from TBUTLER@HEWM.COM Fri Jan  7 17:28:29 2000

[206.189.208.11] (may be forged))

; Fri, 7

(WorldSecureServer SMTP Relay(WSS) v3.6.2); Fri, 07 Jan 00 15:26:33 -
0800

; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:27:53 -0800

dickay@alltel.net,rmoon@ida.net, saweiss@flash.net

Subject: RE: Building noded rods

Given the success in former years of pet rocks and Furbees,  and
thecurrentPokemon craze, it seems that some creative (or deranged)
rodmaker shouldfigure our how to make a bundle off the sale of and/or use
of spare nodes.Or, on the other hand, maybe this idea will come to noding.

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

Ron Barch said he was going to make ash trays out of them and make a
pileofmoney.

Jack-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by Chris
Bogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he usually
hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or stove of
hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W Moon 

Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:11 AMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Jan  7 17:49:26 2000

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Right on, Jerry. 

I am a zoologist but i have looked at a lot of monocot stems and the
fibersjust do not wander that much. In fact i do not think that you can
poperlyuse the term grain,as in wood. Wood is 
from dicots which of have a totallydifferent structure. As i remember,
monocots like bamboo grow in girth byexpansion and thickening of a single
ring of tissue while wood has theusual "annual rings" added each year as a
new layer of vascular tissue.

I expect that your sections will show this, but you never know until youlook.

-Doug

At 12:32 PM 1/7/2000 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:Regarding the sawing of
strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI readily admit it.  As a
plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW
far do they wander?  Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of
an inch, hundredths of aninch?  Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip
wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then
planed down tofinal, might not you plane away all of  those wandering fibers? 
Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not
totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?  I am in the
process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo  in the lab
to determine the actual length of a single fiber (cell),and observe how, over a
several inch length section, the attached fibersforming a single "filament"
wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that
itcontinues to educate.J. Snider

At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob,

I don't know how much time might be saved if any.  I was thinking interms of
getting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splits ata slow
pace.  The need to straighten sweeps would still be there.  

Chris---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM:

Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting, and
they way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off theband
saw.  I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the sawcutoff
of the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it sojust click on
it and it'll give you the pic)
http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg  andyou'll
see that the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, very fast
crook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most severe
sweep I have seen at a node).  If you were to index, somehow, so that youcut
the strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuch
longer than splitting, and you would still have to straighten the strip.My
understanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down the
preparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminating the
need to straighten.  I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing
straight throughthis section would have definitely made a number of "cross
cuts" to thepower fibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips,
that is how they were done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of
sorts, toinsure accurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not have
to be straightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to
saw, the purpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips.  If
you index, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing stripsthat
would look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or time at all. 
Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftrying to
"follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjust
splitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at
the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit, straightened strip out of the
same culm.  The only difference betweenthis and the only sawn strips I have
ever seen is that this one maintained the integrity of the power fibers and
the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just
confused as to why anyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to
the time andtrouble to follow the grain.  Splitting is EASY in comparason to
trying to cut alongthe grain.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as yousay
once they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweeping bends are due to a
twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.  If the culm was
initially split in half, and thus the grain is followed to that point as I said
previously, or if it were split further intoquarters or sixths, then the grain
has been followed up to that point.  Sawing 3/16" strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following the grain.I think the
significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmore due to
sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to

the twist in the culm and then following the split line.  Just myopinion.

Chris

---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM:

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain ofthecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is split andready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.  Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,
itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally following thegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps inthestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
havebutvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibers
notonly

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but I feelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount of continuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extreme cases,sawing strips could eliminate
continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do
this.  With splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of
fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's post
regardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how
to handsplit aculm.

But.......

wedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternating
pressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we"
coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting
asifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but the
amountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

Doug EastonTonawanda, NY

from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan  7 17:50:51 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:50:20 -0600

,, 

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

Hey, ya' wanna' get rich ? Make POKEMANODES ! What an idea ! (BG)

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: Building noded rods

Given the success in former years of pet rocks and Furbees,  and
thecurrentPokemon craze, it seems that some creative (or deranged)
rodmakershouldfigure our how to make a bundle off the sale of and/or use of
sparenodes.Or, on the other hand, maybe this idea will come to noding.

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 3:07 PM

Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Building noded rods

Ron Barch said he was going to make ash trays out of them and make
apileofmoney.

Jack-----Original Message-----From: Dick & Kathy Fuhrman 

Cc: Rodmakers Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by Chris
Bogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he usually
hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or stove of
hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W Moon 

Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:11 AMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from guille32@cvtci.com.ar Fri Jan  7 18:00:44 2000

SMTPSVC;Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:00:08 -0300

Subject: RODMAKERS POSPONE

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5952.C3B3E400"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5952.C3B3E400

RODMAKERS POSPONE

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5952.C3B3E400

RODMAKERS POSPONE

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5952.C3B3E400--

from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan  7 18:17:13 2000

dickay@alltel.net,saweiss@flash.net, Rodmakers Subject: Re: Building noded
rods

A nodeless guru (noded?) John Dufford has already addressed this issuewith
a very clever article on the use of nodes.  I don't recall all ofhis uses.  I can't
even recall if he included his recipe for MockCalimari in the article.  I think
the Babmoo Rod Magazine may be comingout with the article.  In his defense,
I think his system of buildingnodeless rods is one of the best structured I
have ever seen.  Hope thathe publishes that!Ralph

from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan  7 18:19:43 2000

Subject: Nodes

You people shouldn't be cutting them nodes out!  What are you thinking?Them
nodes was growed in the cane and them nodes should stay! A hunderdyears 
from now will them glued up splices still be holding?  If youdon't trust nodes,
graphite and plastic ain't got no nodes.

It ain't natural.

Bubba

from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 18:20:20 2000

(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 00:19:46 +0000

,, 

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

I think Chris Bogart at one time was going to make napkin rings.

Jack-----Original Message-----

; dickay@alltel.net ;rmoon@ida.net ; saweiss@flash.net 

Subject: Re: Building noded rods

Hey, ya' wanna' get rich ? Make POKEMANODES ! What an idea ! (BG)

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Butler, Timothy H." 

Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 5:27 PMSubject: RE: Building
noded rods

Given the success in former years of pet rocks and Furbees,  and
thecurrentPokemon craze, it seems that some creative (or deranged)
rodmakershouldfigure our how to make a bundle off the sale of and/or use of
sparenodes.Or, on the other hand, maybe this idea will come to noding.

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 3:07 PM

Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Building noded rods

Ron Barch said he was going to make ash trays out of them and make
apileofmoney.

Jack-----Original Message-----From: Dick & Kathy Fuhrman 

Cc: Rodmakers Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by
ChrisBogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he
usually hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or
stove of hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W Moon 

Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:11 AMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 18:27:09 2000

with ESMTP id 

Subject: This is a test...

OK...  Caught you again.  I can see others' messages but not my own.  Isthis a
vampire thing?  Am I undead on the list?  Can anyone else see me?

Sinned (I'm the evil twin!)

from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 18:30:11 2000

with ESMTP id ;Sat, 8 Jan 2000 00:29:34 +0000

rmoon@ida.net, saweiss@flash.net,Rodmakers Subject: Re: Building noded
rods

Isn't that Pokenodes?  That's a bunch of hills in Pennsylvania, ain'tit?

Dennis

nobler wrote:

Hey, ya' wanna' get rich ? Make POKEMANODES ! What an idea ! (BG)

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Butler, Timothy H." 

Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 5:27 PMSubject: RE: Building
noded rods

Given the success in former years of pet rocks and Furbees,  and
thecurrentPokemon craze, it seems that some creative (or deranged)
rodmakershouldfigure our how to make a bundle off the sale of and/or use of
sparenodes.Or, on the other hand, maybe this idea will come to noding.

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 3:07 PM

Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Building noded rods

Ron Barch said he was going to make ash trays out of them and make
apileofmoney.

Jack-----Original Message-----From: Dick & Kathy Fuhrman 

Cc: Rodmakers Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by
ChrisBogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he
usually hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or
stove of hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W Moon 

Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:11 AMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jan  7 18:48:28 2000

Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:48:27 -0600

Subject: Re: Nodes

How does that song go:Tem nodes them nods gona be around , thm nods thm
nodes gonna be around,the top node connected to the bottom node, top node
connected to thebottomnode and it's all attached to the culm.Tony   
FlyTyr@southshore.com

Rick C. wrote:

You people shouldn't be cutting them nodes out!  What are you thinking?Them
nodes was growed in the cane and them nodes should stay! Ahunderdyears 
from now will them glued up splices still be holding?  If youdon't trust nodes,
graphite and plastic ain't got no nodes.

It ain't natural.

Bubba

from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jan  7 19:35:39 2000

"'David W. Smith, Ph.D. '" ,,

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Jeff,Following your logic, surgery or amputation is  preferred to
conservativetreatment for a medical or developmental  problem. Rather than
modifyandpreserve the original structure, just cut it off. I acknowledge
thatnodeless is a valid and successful technique, but I wouldn't say
thatmodifying nodes is more abusive than cutting them out.Steve

Ralph, I build nodeless rods, and no I am not mad at your not
beingconvincedthat nodeless is a reliable method. I am not 100% sure of
either methodmyselfafter the few years I have been working with cane. I
started buildingnodelessrods because after reading all of the archives and
books, this methodfeltrightto me. I couldn't get over the abuse that is
required to make a node flatandstraight. Grinding or filing, heating then
pressing, heating thenstraighteningall to make a node useable in a rod. I
recognize that nearly all of theclassicrods are made with the nodes in place
and are functioning as designedwithnoreported failures. I haven't heard of
any nodeless rods being reported ashavingfailures either. Sure we have all
heard of a failure of some sort duringconstruction when a nodeless strip is
being flexed for an integrity check.Thiswould be no different (in my mind)
than a node snaping when beingover/underheated and straightened. There
are several people who have gone to thenodelessmethod and are making a
living at it, or at least supplimenting thereincome.

I would expect that as more people come into the rodmaking
business(hobbyforme), we will see more people trying the nodeless method.
Why? Wellthereis moreinformation coming out on nodeless techniques, the
glues that we havetoday seemto be better than what the rodmaking pioneers
had 25-50-100 years ago,andtomany people that I have talked to they like
the look of the nodeless rod.Tosome people, having the flexiblilty and control
to weed out bad sectionsofcane (cosmetic or structural) without wasting the
rest of the strip isveryimportant. Another consideration for me was space
and funds in mystartupofrodmaking, I didn't have much of either. I was able
to quickly utilize mycooking oven for heat treating instead of building or
purchasing an ovento cookfull length strips.

Since this is a hobby / way of life for me, I do not want to just focus inonone
method of building a fly rod. I am interested in building a rod orrods
withnodes, quads, pentas, and more of the hexes that I am currently
building.Ioften wonder how much thought went into nodeless vesus noded
rodconstructionback when Garrison and others were starting out. Did they
realize thattheydidn't have sufficient glue or techniques to build nodeless? Or
perhapstheyreally didn't give it much thought at all, and just wanted to build
rodswiththe construction method that had the most information on and they
feltmostcomfortable with. 
from my less experienced point of view I saw severalways of"skinnin' the cat"
and chose nodeless as my entry into rodmaking.

Time will tell on these methods and hopefully they will both
beexceptablemethods for constructing fly rods.

I really think that this list has made a strong comeback 
from say thelastsixmonths, when little rodmaking was being discussed. Is
this due to colderweatheror renewed interest?

Jeff

Internet Mail MessageReceived 
from host: wugate.wustl.edu[128.252.120.1]

Envelope Sender:    owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

From: Ralph W Moon  on 01/06/2000 10:27 AM

Please respond to rmoon@ida.net

cc:   klingb@health.missouri.edu, "'David W. Smith, Ph.D.
'",mcdowellc@lanecc.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (bcc: JeffArnold-
JL/PGI)Subject:  Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

Ralph Wrote:

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I
wouldhavebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue
Iwould have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes
arocketscientist to figure out that the structural integrity of the
wholemustbe better than the structural integrity of its stuck-together
parts.Anyway, don't get mad nodeless builders,  I have no right
tocriticizewhat you do, but I maintain the right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

from if6were9@bellsouth.net Fri Jan  7 19:57:34 2000

UAA06498;

RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Cutting groove depth (was 60
degree tool)

To anyone that may be interested.  I picked up a nice 0" to 4"
Mitutoyodepthgauge set in a trade today and I really don't need it.  I'm asking
$45 andshipping, or perhaps a trade?  Please contact me off list if you
areinterested.

from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan  7 20:09:22 2000

0000

Subject: Enough Already!

I must admit that I am probably one of the most guilty, but do you allknow
that there have been about 97 postings today on this list?  (mycount may
not be completely accurate.  And we have degenerated? topunning instead of
paying attention to our primary purpose.  Which is tofurther the knowledge
and awareness of cane rods as the best formoflife.  I am willing to accept a
token punishment of node supper.  Howabout the rest of you?

Ralph

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jan  7 20:10:07 2000

"'stpete@netten.net '"

Subject: RE: Nodes

That's right, and going along with Bubba's point, what could be moreunnatural
than splitting up a perfectly good culm? Real men fish withwholeculms.

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Nodes

How does that song go:Tem nodes them nods gona be around , thm nods thm
nodes gonna be around,the top node connected to the bottom node, top node
connected to thebottomnode and it's all attached to the culm.Tony   
FlyTyr@southshore.com

Rick C. wrote:

You people shouldn't be cutting them nodes out!  What are youthinking?Them
nodes was growed in the cane and them nodes should stay! Ahunderdyears 
from now will them glued up splices still be holding?  If youdon't trust nodes,
graphite and plastic ain't got no nodes.

It ain't natural.

Bubba

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan  7 20:52:31 2000

Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Enough Already!]]

"Shawn Pineo, New Scotland Flyrods" wrote:

I  agree!!! On with other topics, like why don't people  include guidespacing and
ferrule size/type  on their taper patterns more often? Also adescription of
the action and a bit of history would sure be awesome. Icollect every taper I
can get my hands on and it sure would be nice tohavethat info on the sheets,

ShawnRalph W Moon wrote:

I must admit that I am probably one of the most guilty, but do you allknow
that there have been about 97 postings today on this list?  (mycount may
not be completely accurate.  And we have degenerated? topunning instead of
paying attention to our primary purpose.  Which is tofurther the knowledge
and awareness of cane rods as the best formoflife.  I am willing to accept a
token punishment of node supper.  Howabout the rest of you?

Ralph

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan  7 20:53:46 2000

Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: paul young rods]]]

"Shawn Pineo, New Scotland Flyrods" wrote:

"Shawn Pineo, New Scotland Flyrods" wrote:

Christopher,does your friend with 30 PHY's in his collection happen tohave a
Perfectionist?? If so would you be able to measure things likethe
guidespacing, grip length and type, ferrule type, ect...?? Maybe even
somepicturesif possible. I would appreciate anything you could find , cause
I've gotnothingso far other than Mauer's taper for the rod. Feel free to
contact meofflist.T.I.A.,

Shawn Pineo

"Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote:

This is a posting regarding an previous question.

The question was "what color are the wraps on paul young rods?"

Having visited with a local expert (with over 30 PHY rods in hiscollection)in
the 'burgh (pittsburgh, pa) over christmas, who new Mr. Young, andwasthe
long-time fishing partner of the brother of Mrs. Young, I learnedthefollowing:

Young rods were typically wrapped with Belding & Corticelli (3715 or3517,
Icant remember the number for sure) "Antique Gold", and though
stillinbusiness, they do not make that color any more.  They will make
itspecial

I hope this helps someone.

from j.l.arnold.rods@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 21:01:44 2000

(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 03:01:07 +0000

"'David W. Smith, Ph.D. '" ,,

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Let me guess your a Dr. right!

----- Original Message -----

Ph.D.' ; ;

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Jeff,Following your logic, surgery or amputation is  preferred to
conservativetreatment for a medical or developmental  problem. Rather than
modifyandpreserve the original structure, just cut it off. I acknowledge
thatnodeless is a valid and successful technique, but I wouldn't say
thatmodifying nodes is more abusive than cutting them out.Steve

Ralph, I build nodeless rods, and no I am not mad at your not
beingconvincedthat nodeless is a reliable method. I am not 100% sure of
either methodmyselfafter the few years I have been working with cane. I
started buildingnodelessrods because after reading all of the archives and
books, this methodfeltrightto me. I couldn't get over the abuse that is
required to make a nodeflatandstraight. Grinding or filing, heating then
pressing, heating thenstraighteningall to make a node useable in a rod. I
recognize that nearly all of theclassicrods are made with the nodes in place
and are functioning as designedwithnoreported failures. I haven't heard of
any nodeless rods being reportedashavingfailures either. Sure we have all
heard of a failure of some sort duringconstruction when a nodeless strip is
being flexed for an integritycheck.Thiswould be no different (in my mind)
than a node snaping when beingover/underheated and straightened. There
are several people who have gone to thenodelessmethod and are making a
living at it, or at least supplimenting thereincome.

I would expect that as more people come into the rodmaking
business(hobbyforme), we will see more people trying the nodeless method.
Why? Wellthereis moreinformation coming out on nodeless techniques, the
glues that we havetoday seemto be better than what the rodmaking pioneers
had 25-50-100 yearsago,andtomany people that I have talked to they like the
look of the nodelessrod.Tosome people, having the flexiblilty and control to
weed out badsectionsofcane (cosmetic or structural) without wasting the
rest of the strip isveryimportant. Another consideration for me was space
and funds in mystartupofrodmaking, I didn't have much of either. I was able
to quickly utilizemycooking oven for heat treating instead of building or
purchasing an ovento cookfull length strips.

Since this is a hobby / way of life for me, I do not want to just focusinonone
method of building a fly rod. I am interested in building a rod orrods
withnodes, quads, pentas, and more of the hexes that I am
currentlybuilding.Ioften wonder how much thought went into nodeless vesus
noded rodconstructionback when Garrison and others were starting out. Did
they realize thattheydidn't have sufficient glue or techniques to build
nodeless? Or perhapstheyreally didn't give it much thought at all, and just
wanted to build rodswiththe construction method that had the most
information on and they feltmostcomfortable with. 
from my less experienced point of view I sawseveralways of"skinnin' the cat"
and chose nodeless as my entry into rodmaking.

Time will tell on these methods and hopefully they will both
beexceptablemethods for constructing fly rods.

I really think that this list has made a strong comeback 
from say thelastsixmonths, when little rodmaking was being discussed. Is
this due tocolderweatheror renewed interest?

Jeff

Internet Mail MessageReceived 
from host: wugate.wustl.edu[128.252.120.1]

Envelope Sender:    owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

From: Ralph W Moon  on 01/06/2000 10:27 AM

Please respond to rmoon@ida.net

cc:   klingb@health.missouri.edu, "'David W. Smith, Ph.D.
'",mcdowellc@lanecc.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (bcc: JeffArnold-
JL/PGI)Subject:  Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I would
havebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue Iwould
have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes a rocketscientist to
figure out that the structural integrity of the whole mustbe better than the
structural integrity of its stuck-together parts.Anyway, don't get mad
nodeless builders,  I have no right to criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the
right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

Ralph Wrote:

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one spliceafteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from othermembersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I
wouldhavebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half
glueIwould have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes
arocketscientist to figure out that the structural integrity of the
wholemustbe better than the structural integrity of its stuck-
togetherparts.Anyway, don't get mad nodeless builders,  I have no right
tocriticizewhat you do, but I maintain the right to tell you why I don'tagree.

Ralph

from piscator@crosswinds.net Fri Jan  7 21:14:23 2000

(envelope-
from piscator@crosswinds.net)

Subject: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="------------EAF33FA73BABBEC054052E99"

--------------EAF33FA73BABBEC054052E99

Hi guys-

I just got my idea for the year, tho' it's only half-baked.We all see and handle
oodles of neat old bamboo flyrods each year, andwe write down the tapers
and post them for others to try when they havethe inclination.  I'd like to
suggest that we take some standardizedphotographs of classic, un-altered
rods by Leonard, Heddon, Payne SouthBend, Young, etc.  NOT just the sexy
ones, in other words, but rods wemay be asked to refinish someday.

rods that a customer wanted restored, but they had already been strippedof
all wraps.  They were #14 and #20 Heddon's and after some digging Igot the
photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but if we were tobe given
something more rare (a Heddon Princess or a Granger registered,or a really
nice rod, well, you get the picture.  Or rather you would ifwe all took them
and posted them either with the tapers or in a seperatearchive for the use
of anybody who needed it.

Digital cameras are getting pretty common, or you can scan snapshots. 
Iwould think that pictures of wraps at the cork check, sig wraps, oneguide,
the ferrules, and the tip top would do it.  Pictures of grips,decals and
writings on the rod would maybe prove useful in identifying arod that wasn't
all there.

I know there are some books out there with limited data in them, but fewin
color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have the resources allof us
have through our hands on a semi-regular basis.  I'd be glad toorganize, file
and label the pictures, but I don't have a good place topost them.

Dose this sound like a good idea?

Brian

--------------EAF33FA73BABBEC054052E99

Hi guys-

baked.We all see and handle oodles of neat old bamboo flyrods each year,and
we write down the tapers and post them for others to try when they

standardizedphotographs of classic, un-altered rods by Leonard, Heddon,
Payne South

we may be asked to refinish someday.

rods that a customer wanted restored, but they had already been stripped

diggingI got the photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but if we wereto
be given something more rare (a Heddon Princess or a Grangerregistered,

you would if we all took them and posted them either with the tapers orin a
seperate archive for the use of anybody who needed it.Digital cameras are
getting pretty common, or you can scan

I would think that pictures of wraps at the cork check, sig wraps, one

decals and writings on the rod would maybe prove useful in identifyinga rod
that wasn't all there.I know there are some books out there with limited data
in them, butfew in color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have the
resources

glad to organize, file and label the pictures, but I don't have a goodplace to
post them.Dose this sound like a good idea?Brian

--------------EAF33FA73BABBEC054052E99--

from j.l.arnold.rods@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 21:31:28 2000

(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 03:30:51 +0000

, 

"'David W. Smith, Ph.D. '" ,,

Subject: Re: Following the grain

I hate email and modern electronics! Before my message got away 
from me Iwas going to try to say - Let me guess your a Dr. right! I'm an
ElectricalEngineer! I have never considered myself to be a craftsman or
awoodworker.I just like to build rods...hopefully good rods. What I said earlier,
(in somany words) is that I "feel" better about the nodeless method as being
thebest entry to my rodmaking life. I want to build all sorts of rods....yeswith
nodes....yes without!

Have you ever seen the video infomercial 
from Winston? One of the mostwellknown builders is in the video (G. Brackett
sp?) taking a big grindingwheelto the nodal areas of the cane. Is it wrong for
him to do that? Probablynot....but it sure looked like hell.

forthe fellow doing an article on a stream in Oregon (I think?) is beautiful.
Ithink the nodes look nice, how they appear golden amongst the flamedcane.
Ihope to build one of those someday. I am notan  anti-node person really.

Let's keep building rods, in fact all sorts of different rods. Hell I mighteven
think about building one of those that have been twisted. On
secondthought......No I think I'll pass on that one.

Jeff----- Original Message -----

Ph.D.' ; ;

Subject: Re: Following the grain

Let me guess your a Dr. right!

----- Original Message -----From: Steven Weiss 

Cc: ; ; 'David W. Smith,Ph.D.' ; ;

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:18 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain

Jeff,Following your logic, surgery or amputation is  preferred
toconservativetreatment for a medical or developmental  problem. Rather
than modifyandpreserve the original structure, just cut it off. I acknowledge
thatnodeless is a valid and successful technique, but I wouldn't say
thatmodifying nodes is more abusive than cutting them out.Steve

Ralph, I build nodeless rods, and no I am not mad at your not
beingconvincedthat nodeless is a reliable method. I am not 100% sure of
eithermethodmyselfafter the few years I have been working with cane. I
started buildingnodelessrods because after reading all of the archives and
books, this methodfeltrightto me. I couldn't get over the abuse that is
required to make a nodeflatandstraight. Grinding or filing, heating then
pressing, heating thenstraighteningall to make a node useable in a rod. I
recognize that nearly all oftheclassicrods are made with the nodes in place
and are functioning as designedwithnoreported failures. I haven't heard of
any nodeless rods being reportedashavingfailures either. Sure we have all
heard of a failure of some sortduringconstruction when a nodeless strip is
being flexed for an integritycheck.Thiswould be no different (in my mind)
than a node snaping when beingover/underheated and straightened. There
are several people who have gone tothenodelessmethod and are making a
living at it, or at least supplimenting thereincome.

I would expect that as more people come into the rodmaking
business(hobbyforme), we will see more people trying the nodeless method.
Why? Wellthereis moreinformation coming out on nodeless techniques, the
glues that wehavetoday seemto be better than what the rodmaking pioneers
had 25-50-100 yearsago,andtomany people that I have talked to they like the
look of the nodelessrod.Tosome people, having the flexiblilty and control to
weed out badsectionsofcane (cosmetic or structural) without wasting the
rest of the strip isveryimportant. Another consideration for me was space
and funds in mystartupofrodmaking, I didn't have much of either. I was able
to quickly utilizemycooking oven for heat treating instead of building or
purchasing anovento cookfull length strips.

Since this is a hobby / way of life for me, I do not want to justfocusinonone
method of building a fly rod. I am interested in building a rod orrods
withnodes, quads, pentas, and more of the hexes that I am
currentlybuilding.Ioften wonder how much thought went into nodeless vesus
noded rodconstructionback when Garrison and others were starting out. Did
they realizethattheydidn't have sufficient glue or techniques to build
nodeless? Orperhapstheyreally didn't give it much thought at all, and just
wanted to buildrodswiththe construction method that had the most
information on and theyfeltmostcomfortable with. 
from my less experienced point of view I sawseveralways of"skinnin' the cat"
and chose nodeless as my entry into rodmaking.

Time will tell on these methods and hopefully they will both
beexceptablemethods for constructing fly rods.

I really think that this list has made a strong comeback 
from say thelastsixmonths, when little rodmaking was being discussed. Is
this due tocolderweatheror renewed interest?

Jeff

Internet Mail MessageReceived 
from host: wugate.wustl.edu[128.252.120.1]

Envelope Sender:    owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

From: Ralph W Moon  on 01/06/2000 10:27 AM

Please respond to rmoon@ida.net

cc:   klingb@health.missouri.edu, "'David W. Smith, Ph.D.
'",mcdowellc@lanecc.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (bcc: JeffArnold-
JL/PGI)Subject:  Re: Following the grain

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have been proved.  Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one splice afteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from other membersthat the splice failure is a bigger factor that we might
suspect.  Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his feelings
aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod, I
wouldhavebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of half glue
Iwould have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it takes
arocketscientist to figure out that the structural integrity of the
wholemustbe better than the structural integrity of its stuck-together
parts.Anyway, don't get mad nodeless builders,  I have no right to
criticizewhat you do, but I maintain the right to tell you why I don't agree.

Ralph

Ralph Wrote:

Again I will back your comments Bob.  Despite what Barry says, Ipersonally
am not convinced that Nodeless  rods have beenproved.Irecall one post on
this list not long ago in which one spliceafteranother let go.  And further I
keep getting hints 
from othermembers> > >       that the splice failure is a bigger factor that
we mightsuspect.Toparaphrase another rod builder who expressed his
feelings aboutimpregnated rods by saying "If I had wanted a plastic rod,
Iwouldhavebought a plastic rod,"  I might say if I wanted a rod of
halfglueIwould have bought a half glue rod.  I don't think that it
takesarocketscientist to figure out that the structural integrity of
thewholemustbe better than the structural integrity of its stuck-
togetherparts.Anyway, don't get mad nodeless builders,  I have no right
tocriticizewhat you do, but I maintain the right to tell you why I don'tagree.

Ralph

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan  7 21:36:27 2000

Subject: [Fwd: Pictures of original classic rods]

boundary="------------4C676EBAD0626774D4FC7915"

--------------4C676EBAD0626774D4FC7915

Exactly the type of thing I was getting at!! Rather than having to spenda
fortune on $100 reference books or in addition to...,Shawn

"Brian D. Creek" wrote:

Hi guys-

I just got my idea for the year, tho' it's only half-baked.We all see and handle
oodles of neat old bamboo flyrods each year, andwe write down the tapers
and post them for others to try when theyhave the inclination.  I'd like to
suggest that we take somestandardized photographs of classic, un-altered
rods by Leonard,Heddon, Payne South Bend, Young, etc.  NOT just the sexy
ones, inother words, but rods we may be asked to refinish someday.

rods that a customer wanted restored, but they had already beenstripped of
all wraps.  They were #14 and #20 Heddon's and after somedigging I got the
photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but ifwe were to be given
something more rare (a Heddon Princess or aGranger registered, or a really
nice rod, well, you get the picture.Or rather you would if we all took them and
posted them either withthe tapers or in a seperate archive for the use of
anybody who neededit.

Digital cameras are getting pretty common, or you can scan snapshots.I
would think that pictures of wraps at the cork check, sig wraps, oneguide,
the ferrules, and the tip top would do it.  Pictures of grips,decals and
writings on the rod would maybe prove useful in identifyinga rod that wasn't
all there.

I know there are some books out there with limited data in them, butfew in
color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have theresources all of us
have through our hands on a semi-regular basis.I'd be glad to organize, file
and label the pictures, but I don't havea good place to post them.

Dose this sound like a good idea?

Brian

--------------4C676EBAD0626774D4FC7915

Exactly the type of thing I was getting at!! Rather than having to spenda
fortune on $100 reference books or in addition to...,

Shawn"Brian D. Creek" wrote:Hi guys-

baked.We all see and handle oodles of neat old bamboo flyrods each year,and
we write down the tapers and post them for others to try when they

standardizedphotographs of classic, un-altered rods by Leonard, Heddon,
Payne South

we may be asked to refinish someday.

rods that a customer wanted restored, but they had already been stripped

diggingI got the photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but if we wereto
be given something more rare (a Heddon Princess or a Grangerregistered,

you would if we all took them and posted them either with the tapers orin a
seperate archive for the use of anybody who needed it.Digital cameras are
getting pretty common, or you can scan

I would think that pictures of wraps at the cork check, sig wraps, one

decals and writings on the rod would maybe prove useful in identifyinga rod
that wasn't all there.I know there are some books out there with limited data
in them, butfew in color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have the
resources

glad to organize, file and label the pictures, but I don't have a goodplace to
post them.Dose this sound like a good idea?Brian

--------------4C676EBAD0626774D4FC7915--

from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan  7 21:48:10 2000

Subject: Re: Sawn Strips

Well, I will not argue with you, It did not work for me. Perhaps it was thewayI
worked.My planing forms are copies of Garrisons' with a finishing V and a
roughingV. Iused a large plane to rough, taking large cuts with a bit of speed
and force.The finishing V  left .025 to finish with a block plane with
adjustablemouth. Itried sawn strips but I had a lot of tearing.It just goes to
show that you should not believe all you read on the list.Imagine if I had made
the statment below in a book, I would have had todefendit, even if it was
wrong

Landeens wrote:

The last six rods I have built were 
from strips I had sawed with a bandsaw.I never had one tearout and they
planed just fine. They were actually alotbetter than my hand split strips in
that they were square and easier toworkwith. The rods have fished great and
I can't tell any difference in theconstruction or the casting with rods that
have been hand split or sawn.

----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND 

Cc: rod Maker List Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:48 PMSubject: Re:
Sawn Strips

Strips that have been straight sawn 
from a culm cannot be planed. Thewaythegrain dog legs either side of the
node makes for against the grainplaningandwill cause tearouts.Try it on a
scrap piece.

Jerry Morton wrote:

Well isn't this a fine mess.  Lets generalize a little bit.  First ofallbamboo is a
type of wood fiber.  In any other wood, whether it be thefinestwalnut or a
simple piece of pine, there is usually internal stresses inthewood when it is
standing timber and after it makes its way to yourworkbench.  This stress
may manifest itself in several ways.

The first and most noticeable occurs when a board is ripped.
Startwithaperfect 6 inch wide board, rip it into 2 equal sized pieces, and it
ispossible to wind up with 2 pieces severely warped.  This is caused
bytheinternal stress in the original piece.  Why would we expect bamboo
toperform any differently.  We could expect some ripped strips
toperfectlystraight and some to have some wild curvatures.  Following the
graindoesnot guarantee straight strips.  The fiber positioning was
determinedwhilethe plant was growing and was influenced by sunlight,
adjacentplants,windand many other natural factors.  And so goes the
possibility ofstraightorwarped strips.

As far as the discussion of the problem of cutting the power
fiberswhenripping goes.  This is done to a certain degree when planing. 
Evenunder

onesatthe top of the pyramid.

from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan  7 22:03:53 2000

RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Following the grain

Why does cane split out with a kink at the nodes if it is not a deviation
in"grain" or fibers?When you file off the the top of a node you can see the
fibers are notparallel.

Douglas P. Easton wrote:

Right on, Jerry.

I am a zoologist but i have looked at a lot of monocot stems and
thefibersjust do not wander that much. In fact i do not think that you can
poperlyuse the term grain,as in wood. Wood is 
from dicots which of have atotallydifferent structure. As i remember,
monocots like bamboo grow in girthbyexpansion and thickening of a single
ring of tissue while wood has theusual "annual rings" added each year as a
new layer of vascular tissue.

I expect that your sections will show this, but you never know until youlook.

-Doug

At 12:32 PM 1/7/2000 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:Regarding the sawing of
strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI readily admit it.  As a
plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW
far do they wander?  Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of
an inch, hundredths of aninch?  Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip
wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then
planed down tofinal, might not you plane away all of  those wandering fibers? 
Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not
totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?I am in the process
of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo  in the lab to
determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and observe how, over a
several inch length section, the attached fibersforming a single "filament"
wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that
itcontinues to educate.J. Snider

At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob,

I don't know how much time might be saved if any.  I was thinking interms
ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splitsat
aslow pace.  The need to straighten sweeps would still be there.

Chris---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM:

Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of
splitting,andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off
thebandsaw.  I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the
sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it
sojustclick on it and it'll give you the
pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg 
andyou'll seethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe,
very fastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most
severesweep I have seen at a node).  If you were to index, somehow, so
thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would
takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten the
strip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down
thepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling,
byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates
how sawing straight throughthissection would have definitely made a number
of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn
strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence"
of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not
have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going
to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips.  If
youindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing
stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or
timeatall.  Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially
iftryingto "follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer
thanjustsplitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you
look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out
of the same culm.  The only difference betweenthisand the only sawn strips I
have ever seen is that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers
and the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just
confused as to whyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the
time andtrouble tofollow the grain.  Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying
to cutalongthegrain.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain

I see what you're saying.  However, are sawn strips as straight as
yousayonce they are separated 
from the main body?  Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting
action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in
half, and thus the grain is followedtothat point as I said previously, or if it
were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up
to that point.  Sawing3/16"strips away 
from a previous line of split would  be following thegrain.Ithink the significant
grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmoredue to sawing 
from the start and not doing the initial splitting to

the twist in the culm and then following the split line.  Just myopinion.

Chris

---------- Original Text ----------

From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM:

Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when
astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip
bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually,
in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain ofthecane than
sawing does.  When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by
2, 3 or 4 fiber's width.  Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look
down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it,
following the general grain of the bamboo.  Just

straightened.  When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,
itwas close to an inch 
from a line 
from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but
nontheless, generally followingthegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. 
Sure, it is perfectly straight, oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off
of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been
the drastic sweeps inthestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even
close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip.  In
somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not
havebutvery few continuous fibers even 
from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the
culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power
fibersnot only

from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat
this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting
retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even
possible that, in some extremecases,sawing strips could eliminate continuous
lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes.   Splitting will not do this.  With
splitting, for the greatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of fibers 
from node to node.

Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL 

Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain

This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's
postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of
how to handsplit aculm.

But.......

aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do.  When people think
ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the
grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior
forcontinuityof grain.  Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it
to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by
alternatingpressureetc.

We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to

saw tofinish the process and get very nice square strips.  I know "we"
coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting
asifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me.  Sawing
wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but
theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant.

Chris

Doug EastonTonawanda, NY

from morten@flash.net Fri Jan  7 22:14:19 2000

"Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Torch for flaming

Subject: torchDate: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:05:16 -0600From: Onis Cogburn 

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Here's a source for a "very hot" torch.  It is sold by Harbor Freightandcomes
with a 6' hose and a fitting that screws into a 20lb propane tankthat you use
on your gas grill.  Not for the faint of heart, this thingroars when you light it
up.  They don't say what the BTU's is but Iexpectit is near the 150K that
Wayne has.  It has a knob to adjust the flamesizeand a leaver for the "turbo"
mode.  This controls a valve that turns itwide open.  It has no safety
features and when on turbo, it puts out aflame a good 3 feet long and 8 to
10 inches across.  It will flame aculmas fast as you can move it over the
bamboo.  The only disagreeablefeatureis it is a wand design with the torch
head on a 18" by 3/8" steel tube.However if you cut the tube at about 1" 
from the handle and the torchhead,throw away the 16" piece of steel tubing
and connect the head and handlewith a 3/8" compression union, you have a
dandy torch.  The cost is$19.xxregular and $15.xx on sale which has been
about half the time for thelast6 or eight months.  The SK# is 36346.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan  7 22:51:10 2000

with ESMTP id ;Sat, 8 Jan 2000 04:50:37 +0000

"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: This is a test...

Gee Harry!  This is embarrassing!  I've got to stop exposing myself likethis!

Seriously though, thanks everyone.  I was beginning to get a complexabout
this!

Dennis

Harry Boyd wrote:

Dennis Haftel wrote:

OK...  Caught you again.  I can see others' messages but not my own.  Isthis a
vampire thing?  Am I undead on the list?  Can anyone else seeme?

Sinned (I'm the evil twin!)

I see you in Louisiana!Harry

--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jan  7 23:57:43 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:58:29 +0800

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

Sorry, but I haven't seem the posting re the alcohol lamp exploision but isit
certain alcohol was the fuel in use? I didn't think you could get enoughpresure
in a wick type burner to cause a detonation of alcohol.If petrol was used, well
that's different.

One other question, is outback Queensland the only place you can
buymetho(alcohol) ready cooled for consumption? I'm not really expecting
ananswerto this.

Tony

At 12:25 PM 1/7/00 -0600, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Ed,

Having worked in the Comfort Conditioning industry and in
theAutomotiveService area, I know that a container full of fumes is much
moreexplosivethan a container full of flammable liquid.  Thus, I propose that
theexploding alcohol lamp was almost totally empty.  Upon application of
theflame to the wick the escaping fumes were ignited and went back
intothecontainer and ignited the fumes there causing an explosion.

I have heard of gas tanks exploding when someone tried to repair them
bysoldering on a patch.  Even though the tank had been dry for several
days,there were still fumes in the tank.  A lot of these fumes are heavier
thanair and will puddle in a container and stay there.

I have seen a car gas tank successfully repaired and the repairman
hadturned the tank so that the opening was to the ground for several
daysandregularly purged the tank with compressed air.  Before attempting
therepair, he then filled the tank with water to further force out
anyremaining fumes.

I have not tried this and won't.  Before the repair I walked across thestreet
and watched 
from there as I thought he was crazy.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ed Riddle 

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:28 AMSubject: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was
[Sharp bamboo]

John:I was an Army "Advisor" over there '62 - '63, volunteered to go,
seemedlikea good idea at the time, pls. pardon the digression, not too
unlike"whetherTrout suffers pain when hooked".  (PLEASE let's don't go there
again).

But while on horror stories:Issue 3 of BFR magazine cites an incident of an
accidental alcohol lampexplosion ( after he put the Bic to the wick) in a
rodmaker's shop andthevictim was quoted as not worrying about "Why?" but
bought a heat gunforfuture use and went 
from there.  I have a lamp, not used yet, that Iboughtwith intentions of using
it in removing tip-tops and  ferrules and forstraightening sets.  I don't make
rods yet and may never, and hadn'tplannedon a heat gun in my
refinishing/restoration efforts.  Haven't seen anyfollow-up in BBFR.  I still
wonder what caused the explosion.  Anyonewantto provide alcohol lamp "do's
& don'ts" for our future safety?I thank you in advance.Ed

JohnEspecially if it's a radial arm saw and you are ripping and you have
theblade set in the wrong direction.

Jack

strip of bamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese PunjiStake.If  I
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream with you,askme
about it.Ed

Ed(snipped)was killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of
oakkicking back and going completely thru his stomach. Never
standdirectlybehind the blade on a table saw.John

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan  8 00:00:35 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 14:00:20 +0800

Subject: RE: Building noded rods

Charms against Y2K bugs, 29th Feb bugs, Warewolves and Vampires. I
haveaton of nodes around here and never had an ounce of trouble with any
ofthese nasties.

Tony

At 03:27 PM 1/7/00 -0800, you wrote:Given the success in former years of
pet rocks and Furbees,  and thecurrentPokemon craze, it seems that some
creative (or deranged) rodmakershouldfigure our how to make a bundle off
the sale of and/or use of spare nodes.Or, on the other hand, maybe this idea
will come to noding.

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 3:07 PM

Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Building noded rods

Ron Barch said he was going to make ash trays out of them and make apile
ofmoney.

Jack-----Original Message-----From: Dick & Kathy Fuhrman 

Cc: Rodmakers Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

All,

Didn't Wayne have a box of Nodes that were sent to him by Chris
Bogart?Wayne may be willing to share them.  Or contact Chris, he usually
hasplentyof nodes left over unless he burns them in the fireplace or stove of
hisshop.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W Moon 

Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:11 AMSubject: Re: Building
noded rods

I have one I will donate to DonRalph

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from tragich23@juno.com Sat Jan  8 04:22:27 2000

"n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGMxdWUtCiZd/yI55vn20R1s9b9g9bvAaIg=="

05:21:50 EST

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

I drink a lot of alcahol, does this mean when I heat treat my lungs witha
cigarette that I might blow up?  Any safety tips you can give me? Sorry for
the sarcasm, but all of the whining just put me in the mood.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:15:23 -0700 Ralph W Moon writes:Ed  I wondered
about that too.  In my experience alcohol has such a lowflash point that an
explosion would seem virtually impossible.  I haveused an alcohol lamp for
many years and even before rodmaking I used onein chemistry labs.  (almost
before bunsen burner times.).  Any othervolitile liquid in an alcohol lamp
might be dangerous.  The only problemI have ever had is that if spilled and
ignited, the blue flame is hardto see and could cause a fire.

Still the best source of cool heat for bamboo rods.Ralph

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan  8 05:44:11 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:43:57 +0800

Subject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp bamboo]

Have you ever traveled in outback Queensland? :-)

Tony

At 01:38 AM 1/8/00 -0800, ANDREW J INGRAM wrote:I drink a lot of alcahol,
does this mean when I heat treat my lungs witha cigarette that I might blow
up?  Any safety tips you can give me? Sorry for the sarcasm, but all of the
whining just put me in the mood.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:15:23 -0700 Ralph W Moon writes:Ed  I wondered
about that too.  In my experience alcohol has such a lowflash point that an
explosion would seem virtually impossible.  I haveused an alcohol lamp for
many years and even before rodmaking I used onein chemistry labs.  (almost
before bunsen burner times.).  Any othervolitile liquid in an alcohol lamp
might be dangerous.  The only problemI have ever had is that if spilled and
ignited, the blue flame is hardto see and could cause a fire.

Still the best source of cool heat for bamboo rods.Ralph

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 08:25:43 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 08:16:34 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF59B2.0EA972E0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF59B2.0EA972E0

Sounds great to me. There is so many here, that have a rare rod or two,
=and so far, no book exists with many photos of this sort.

GMA

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 8:58 PMSubject: Pictures of original classic
rods

We all see and handle oodles of neat old bamboo flyrods each year, and =we
write down the tapers and post them for others to try when they have=the
inclination.  I'd like to suggest that we take some standardized =photographs
of classic, un-altered rods by Leonard, Heddon, Payne South =Bend, Young,
etc.  NOT just the sexy ones, in other words, but rods we =

rods that a customer wanted restored, but they had already been
stripped=of all wraps.  They were #14 and #20 Heddon's and after some
digging I =got the photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but if we were
to =be given something more rare (a Heddon Princess or a Granger
registered,=or a really nice rod, well, you get the picture.  Or rather you
would if =we all took them and posted them either with the tapers or in a
seperate =

Digital cameras are getting pretty common, or you can scan snapshots.  =I
would think that pictures of wraps at the cork check, sig wraps, one =guide,
the ferrules, and the tip top would do it.  Pictures of grips, =decals and
writings on the rod would maybe prove useful in identifying a =

I know there are some books out there with limited data in them, but =few in
color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have the resources =all of us
have through our hands on a semi-regular basis.  I'd be glad =to organize, file
and label the pictures, but I don't have a good place =

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF59B2.0EA972E0

Sounds great to me. There is so many here,=

sort.

GMA

----- Original Message ----- 

D. Creek 

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 =

PMSubject: Pictures of original =

rods

half-baked. We all see and handle oodles of neat old bamboo =

year, and we write down the tapers and post them for others to try =

photographs of classic, un-altered rods by Leonard, Heddon, Payne =

that a customer wanted restored, but they had already been stripped of =

photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but if we were to be =

if we all took them and posted them either with the tapers or in a =

Digital cameras are getting pretty common, or you can scan =

I would think that pictures of wraps at the cork check, sig wraps, one =

writings on the rod would maybe prove useful in identifying a rod that =

I know there are some books out there with limited data in them, =

color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have the resources all =

file and label the pictures, but I don't have a good place to post =

Brian 

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF59B2.0EA972E0--

from richjez@enteract.com Sat Jan  8 08:33:35 2000

(envelope-
from richjez@enteract.com)

Subject: Re: Nodes

boundary="=====================_691513==_.ALT"

--=====================_691513==_.ALT

If the glue on the nodes gives out, what is to stop the glue on the strips
giving out too?Rich Jezioro

At 06:19 PM 1/7/00 -0600, Rick C. wrote:You people shouldn't be cutting
them nodes out!  What are you thinking?Them nodes was growed in the cane
and them nodes should stay! Ahunderdyears 
from now will them glued up splices still be holding?  If youdon't trust nodes,
graphite and plastic ain't got no nodes.

It ain't natural.

Bubba

*________________________________)//        Rich
Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):>       >                   ))):>--=====================_691513==_.ALT

If the glue on the nodes gives out, what is to stop the glueon the strips giving
out too?Rich Jezioro

At 06:19 PM 1/7/00 -0600, Rick C. wrote:You people shouldn't be cutting
them nodes

Them nodes was growed in the cane and them nodes should stay! Ahunderd

youdon't trust nodes, graphite and plastic ain't got no nodes.

It ain't natural.

Bubba

*_____________

___________________)

@/

||/

____/||_________________________________________

p;/\ 

;

/

bsp;

--=====================_691513==_.ALT--

from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat Jan  8 08:36:14 2000

Subject: Last shot at nodes

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF59AB.01B545C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF59AB.01B545C0

Just like I 'tole my daughters - "if God (pardon Rev) had meant for you =to
have a hole in your nose, he'd a put it there" Same with bamboo - if =

And on the subject of Queensland, I been there and the place is swimming=in
Alcohol. Had to come back stateside and dry out. Didn't see any blow =

------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF59AB.01B545C0

Alright, 

Just like I 'tole my daughters - "if =

Rev) had meant for you to have a hole in your nose, he'd a put it there" =

with bamboo - if he hadn't meant for nodes to be there, he wouldna put =

there. 

And on the subject of Queensland, I =

the place is swimming in Alcohol. Had to come back stateside and dry =

see any blow up though. VB's forever. 

Jim 

------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF59AB.01B545C0--

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jan  8 09:04:16 2000

Subject: Re: Sawn Strips

Ralph,I could not manage to plane up a sawn strip successfully. I suspect
themember that has been able to do it used a finely set blade right 
from thestart.Terry

Ralph W Moon wrote:

Very interesting Terry.  I would never have suspected what you said,
butwhen you bring up the point, it makes perfect sense.  I presume that
avery sharp blade and careful work might minimize the tearout.Ralph

from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jan  8 09:55:59 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Who will we get to archive them????????????????????????Ralph

from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jan  8 09:57:09 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="------------6EF728AABCBCF965ED56A16C"

--------------6EF728AABCBCF965ED56A16C

Sorry about that!~   WHOM  Ralph

--------------6EF728AABCBCF965ED56A16C

--------------6EF728AABCBCF965ED56A16C--

from lblove@cableone.net Sat Jan  8 10:01:33 2000

MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 09:01:26 -0700

Subject: 4'4" 4wt. guide spacing

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF59BF.1B2999C0"

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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF59BF.1B2999C0

Hello List members,

Is there anybody on the list who could provide me with the guide =sizes and
spacing for the 4'4" 4wt. A.J. Thramer rod that is in the =taper archives? 
Also does anyone have any other short rod (under 6') =tapers?

Thank in advance

Bradley Love

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF59BF.1B2999C0

Hello List members,

=

provide me with the guide sizes and spacing for the 4'4" 4wt. A.J. =

(under 6') tapers?

Thank in advance

Bradley Love

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF59BF.1B2999C0--

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan  8 10:09:08 2000

Sun, 9 Jan 2000 00:08:47 +0800

Subject: Re: Last shot at nodes

types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_39306668==_.ALT"

--=====================_39306668==_.ALT

Jim,you've been there alright. When I was almost 18 and so legaly of
drinkingage I"took a turn a drovin'" past Charlaville. I was 
from a tea totaling familyso Istoicaly resisted the deamon drink until about
4:30 in the afternoon of thefirst day :-)I was never able to pour beer on my
corn flakes for breakfast so I neverquitecut the mustard but I did come
across a lot of sheep shearers who pouredMetho(alcohol) through a loaf of
non sliced bread to remove the stuff that isthereto make you sick and
drinking it with orange juice. I found it was quiteniceafter a bottle of saki and
a fair amount of tequila primed you for it.I don't remember any spontaniously
combusting shearers (or drovers) but Icanremember a cook house burning to
the ground one night. That was a prettywierdnight.

Tony

At 07:35 AM 1/8/00 -0600, Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote: 

Alright, 

Just like I 'tole my daughters - "if God (pardon Rev) had meant for you tohave
a hole in your nose, he'd a put it there" Same with bamboo - if hehadn't
meant for nodes to be there, he wouldna put 'em there. 

And on the subject of Queensland, I been there and the place is
swimminginAlcohol. Had to come back stateside and dry out. Didn't see any
blow upthough. VB's forever. 

Jim 

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/ --=====================_39306668==_.ALT

Jim,you've been there alright. When I was almost 18 and so legaly of
drinkingage I "took a turn a drovin'" past Charlaville. I was 
from atea totaling family so I stoicaly resisted the deamon drink until
about4:30 in the afternoon of the first day :-)I was never able to pour beer
on my corn flakes for breakfast so I neverquite cut the mustard but I did
come across a lot of sheep shearers whopoured Metho (alcohol) through a
loaf of non sliced bread to remove thestuff that is there to make you sick
and drinking it with orange juice. Ifound it was quite nice after a bottle of
saki and a fair amount oftequila primed you for it.I don't remember any
spontaniously combusting shearers (or drovers) but Ican remember a cook
house burning to the ground one night. That was apretty wierd night.

Tony

At 07:35 AM 1/8/00 -0600, Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote: Alright,

Just like I 'tole my daughters -"if God (pardon Rev) had meant for you
to have a hole in your nose,he'd a put it there" Same with bamboo - if
he hadn't meant for nodesto be there, he wouldna put 'em there. 

And on the subject of Queensland, I beenthere and the place is swimming in
Alcohol. Had to come back statesideand dry out. Didn't see any blow up
though. VB's forever. 

Jim 

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

/*************************************************************************/

--=====================_39306668==_.ALT--

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan  8 10:30:59 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: Fwd: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="=====================_7074884==_.ALT"

--=====================_7074884==_.ALT

I have 100 mb of space on my site that are unused. I will gladly do it, if no
one else does. I will also eliminate the commercial stuff for fairness sake.
Great idea.Bob

At 09:58 PM 1/7/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi guys-

I just got my idea for the year, tho' it's only half-baked.We all see and handle
oodles of neat old bamboo flyrods each year, andwe write down the tapers
and post them for others to try when they havethe inclination.  I'd like to
suggest that we take some standardized photographs of classic, un-altered
rods by Leonard, Heddon, Payne South Bend, Young, etc.  NOT just the sexy
ones, in other words, but rods we may be asked to refinish someday.

rods that a customer wanted restored, but they had already beenstripped of
all wraps.  They were #14 and #20 Heddon's and after some digging I got the
photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but if we were to be given
something more rare (a Heddon Princess or a Grangerregistered, or a really
nice rod, well, you get the picture.  Or rather you would if we all took them
and posted them either with the tapers or in a seperate archive for the use
of anybody who needed it.

Digital cameras are getting pretty common, or you can scan snapshots.  I
would think that pictures of wraps at the cork check, sig wraps, one guide,
the ferrules, and the tip top would do it.  Pictures of grips, decals and
writings on the rod would maybe prove useful in identifying a rod that wasn't
all there.

I know there are some books out there with limited data in them, butfew in
color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have the resources all of us
have through our hands on a semi-regular basis.  I'd be glad to organize, file
and label the pictures, but I don't have a good place to post them.

Dose this sound like a good idea?

Brian

Bob Mauluccidownandacross.combob@downandacross.com--
=====================_7074884==_.ALT

I have 100 mb of space on my site that areunused. I will gladly do it, if no one
else does. I will also eliminatethe commercial stuff for fairness sake. Great
idea.Bob

At 09:58 PM 1/7/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi guys- 

half-baked. We all see and handle oodles of neat old bamboo flyrods each
year, and wewrite down the tapers and post them for others to try when
they have the

photographs of classic, un-altered rods by Leonard, Heddon, Payne South

we may be asked to refinish someday. 

rods that a customer wanted restored, but they had already been stripped

diggingI got the photos I needed (off of e-bay, of all places) but if we were
tobe given something more rare (a Heddon Princess or a Granger registered,

you would if we all took them and posted them either with the tapers orin a
seperate archive for the use of anybody who needed it. 

Digital cameras are getting pretty common, or you can scan

Pictures of grips, decals and writings on the rod would maybe proveuseful in
identifying a rod that wasn't all there. 

I know there are some books out there with limited data in them, but fewin
color, nothing is standardized, and they can't have the resources all

to organize, file and label the pictures, but I don't have a good placeto post
them. 

Dose this sound like a good idea? 

Brian 

Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com

--=====================_7074884==_.ALT--

from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Jan  8 10:40:18 2000

(envelope-
from piscator@crosswinds.net)

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it to getthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming up withwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rending andchewing.  ;^)

Brian

from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jan  8 10:59:06 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Brian,  That sounds great.  We will need space because graphics do takeup
quite a bit.  If you need some help on pictures to start, I have somegood
shots of  Kosmics, Thomas and Edwards and others.

This is a great idea and might just get you ranked in my list of
ClassicRodmakers of the New Millennium.  In fact it will!!

Ralph

from brookie@frii.com Sat Jan  8 11:11:09 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

RodMakers,

I've been watching this thread with interest.  This HAS been one of mywishes
for some time.  Being a 'customer', not yet a cane maker, I've beenslowly
educating myself on cane, old and contemporary.  It WOULD bedelightful to go
to a site (or book), use the index and find images of canerods.  There are
more of you out there than you probably realize that AREcollectors, or know
collectors.   Without giving name, street address, cityof where the
collections are housed, I suppose you all could get quite arepository of
images built up over the next several years !  All a matterof first finding the
webspace, then getting the word out,  and handling thelogistics of said
endeavor  *G*.

When you are off and running and have posted the initial post to
theRodMakers, asking for input, several of us will cross-post to theflyfishing
website venues for you and get even more images !  

Good luck ! Great idea. And certainly cheaper than someone flying aroundthe
country and world to take firsthand snapshots *G* of the cane.Publishing a
book would be expensive !

suecolorado

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 11:28:25 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:28:50 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

from what little I have learned, since getting a digital camera, resizingimages
to approx. 300 x 225 will allow pictures to down load faster, andtake up less
space, while the image change is hardly detectable.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

RodMakers,

I've been watching this thread with interest.  This HAS been one of mywishes
for some time.  Being a 'customer', not yet a cane maker, I'vebeenslowly
educating myself on cane, old and contemporary.  It WOULD bedelightful to go
to a site (or book), use the index and find images ofcanerods.  There are
more of you out there than you probably realize that AREcollectors, or know
collectors.   Without giving name, street address,cityof where the collections
are housed, I suppose you all could get quite arepository of images built up
over the next several years !  All a matterof first finding the webspace, then
getting the word out,  and handlingthelogistics of said endeavor  *G*.

When you are off and running and have posted the initial post to
theRodMakers, asking for input, several of us will cross-post to theflyfishing
website venues for you and get even more images !

Good luck ! Great idea. And certainly cheaper than someone flying aroundthe
country and world to take firsthand snapshots *G* of the cane.Publishing a
book would be expensive !

suecolorado

from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jan  8 11:31:47 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

I was just playing but take a look athttp://www.MyClassicRods.eboard.com

Ralph

from rvenneri@ulster.net Sat Jan  8 11:35:34 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 12:35:45 -0500

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it to getthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming up withwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rending andchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasic
reelseats if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 11:58:11 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:48:27 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Atta' Boy Ralph !

Don't forget to show wraps though !

GMA----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

I was just playing but take a look athttp://www.MyClassicRods.eboard.com

Ralph

from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jan  8 12:21:25 2000

0000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Sorry I took that picture about 12 years ago, and did not know what useI
would have for it.

from rvenneri@ulster.net Sat Jan  8 12:37:45 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:37:57 -0500

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Ralph W Moon wrote:

I was just playing but take a look athttp://www.MyClassicRods.eboard.com

RalphRalphWow thats great I hopre some guys post some pics of the 25 best
tapers.

Best RegardsBob V

from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jan  8 12:48:51 2000

Subject: Some thoughts on splicing

I've been following the debate, and thought I would add my .02 to the
proceedings.  The strongest glue joint you can make is long grain to long
grain, as in gluing boards edge to edge. The weakest joint is end grain to end
grain. I remember reading some time ago that a 12:1 splice results in about
an 85% long grain to long grain joint, which is plenty strong. If a splice fails
you have used the wrong glue, or your craftsmanship issuspect. I think in
rodbuilding we have two separate types of splices to consider; supported
splices and unsupported splices.A supported splice is the type used by our
nodeless brethren, here the spliced strip will be nested into the glued up
matrix of the section and the sides of the splice will be reinforced by the
adjacent strip. I have heard of very few failures with this type of
construction, and those were caused by excessive heat being applied to
Titebond glued splices in the straightening process. I believe any reasonable
glue will work in this application, aslong as you think about heat application.
Personally, I use resourcinol which is totally heatproof, and worth the
cosmetic tradeoff IMHO.The repair splice is an unsupported splice. Here, the
full section of the rod is spliced, to repair a complete break. I have done a
whole lot of these things and can report the following. Titebond type glues
and hardwarestore epoxies will fail every time. A strong epoxy like Epon 828
is fine, I have also had success with a boatbuilding epoxy known as Evercoat.
Resourcinoland Urac are also up to the job. Another type of unsupported
splice is that used in the two strip quads. We now have a lot of experience
with these things as well. Titebond is definitely not up to the job, everyone
has had failures. I've heard of some epon failures as well, but I suspect the
problem was heat straightening again. I just built one with resourcinol splices,
and it seems fine, even though I did a lot of straightening, as is always
necessary with the two strip quads.On another topic, I believe Terry is
absolutely right on the difficulties of planing a sawn strip. I suspect the
fellow who reported success with sawn strips might be splitting wide
sections first and then sawing out thenarrow strips. That, I think might just
be OK. Either that, or he is lucky enough to have some very straight grained
culms. My advice to any newbie is tolisten to Terry. Saw if you own a milling
machine, but split if you are planing.You will save yourself a lot of grief.

from hartzell@easystreet.com Sat Jan  8 13:17:03 2000

LAA07417;

"RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Leonard 38H

Joe:  Dimensions for Leonard 38H #2018.  Taken 
from butt end of bothsections at 3" intervals across all six flats. You will
have to graphthe rod if you work on 5" sections.Dimensions  over varnish and
with pad on mic.  Subtract .009 to get trueunfinished dimensions.

Butt:9 1/4      322  330  34212          280  281  27715          259  264 
25918          255  255  25421          245  249  24724          238  242 
24427         230  234  23030          223  223  22133          213  219  21836         
200  211  20939          197  196  19441          193  188   ---

Tip( 
from ferrule end)3             172  175  1756             168  169  1709            
166  165  16912           163  161  16415           158  158  15818           147 
148  14621           147  147  147 (something wrong here)24           133  133 
13727           122  125  12330           114  116  11733           107  107 
10736           100  102  10139           089  089  089at tip       082  085 
083  Hope this helps.  Ed Hartzell

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Jan  8 13:54:58 2000

"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Some thoughts on splicing

Thanks, that was a very useful post!

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Some thoughts on splicing

I've been following the debate, and thought I would add my .02 to the
proceedings.  The strongest glue joint you can make is long grain tolong
grain, as in gluing boards edge to edge. The weakest joint is end grainto end
grain. I remember reading some time ago that a 12:1 splice resultsin about
an 85% long grain to long grain joint, which is plenty strong. Ifa splice fails
you have used the wrong glue, or your craftsmanship issuspect. I think in
rodbuilding we have two separate types of splices toconsider; supported
splices and unsupported splices.A supported splice is the type used by our
nodeless brethren, here the spliced strip will be nested into the glued up
matrix of the section andthe sides of the splice will be reinforced by the
adjacent strip. I haveheard of very few failures with this type of
construction, and those were caused

excessive heat being applied to Titebond glued splices in thestraightening
process. I believe any reasonable glue will work in this application, aslong as
you think about heat application. Personally, I use resourcinol whichis totally
heatproof, and worth the cosmetic tradeoff IMHO.The repair splice is an
unsupported splice. Here, the full section ofthe rod is spliced, to repair a
complete break. I have done a whole lot of these

things and can report the following. Titebond type glues and hardwarestore
epoxies will fail every time. A strong epoxy like Epon 828 is fine, Ihave also
had success with a boatbuilding epoxy known as Evercoat.Resourcinol and
Urac are also up to the job. Another type of unsupported splice is that used
in the two strip quads.We now have a lot of experience with these things as
well. Titebond is definitely not up to the job, everyone has had failures. I've
heard ofsome epon failures as well, but I suspect the problem was heat
straightening again. I just built one with resourcinol splices, and it seems
fine,even though I did a lot of straightening, as is always necessary with the
two

strip quads.On another topic, I believe Terry is absolutely right on
thedifficulties of planing a sawn strip. I suspect the fellow who reported
success withsawn strips might be splitting wide sections first and then
sawing out thenarrow strips. That, I think might just be OK. Either that, or he
is luckyenough to have some very straight grained culms. My advice to any
newbie is tolisten to Terry. Saw if you own a milling machine, but split if you
areplaning. You will save yourself a lot of grief.

from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Jan  8 13:57:06 2000

"'Rodmakers '"

Subject: RE: Last shot at nodes

If God had wanted culms to be split he would have made them that
way.Realmen fish with whole culms.

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Last shot at nodes

Alright, 

Just like I 'tole my daughters - "if God (pardon Rev) had meant for youto have
a hole in your nose, he'd a put it there" Same with bamboo - ifhe hadn't
meant for nodes to be there, he wouldna put 'em there. 

And on the subject of Queensland, I been there and the place is swimmingin
Alcohol. Had to come back stateside and dry out. Didn't see any blowup
though. VB's forever. 

Jim 

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 15:10:45 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 15:01:36 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-glued
asection to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I was surprisedto
find serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality then Ifirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not a Montaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it to getthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming up withwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rending andchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasic
reelseats if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jan  8 15:20:14 2000

(SMTPD32-6.00) id AB73CDA008C; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 16:26:11 -0500

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

George,I believe H-I made a model called Sport King. They seemed to have
apenchant for nobility, e.g., Tonka Queen, Tonka Prince, not to
mentionGovernor. : )Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-glued
asection to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I wassurprisedto
find serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality then Ifirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not a Montaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Robert Venneri" 

Cc: ; "RODMAKERS" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re:
Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it togetthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming upwithwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rending andchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasic
reelseats if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 15:44:48 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 15:35:17 -0600

"Rodmakers Listserv" 

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Yes, this has many things that seem H-I, except it must have been
aprivatelabel, as the decal is maroon outlined in white, in a diamond shape. It
hasM74 under the Sport King name, and nothing more. These are the
firstserrated ferrules I've found on an H-I made rod, if that's what it is.

Thanx,

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

George,I believe H-I made a model called Sport King. They seemed to have
apenchant for nobility, e.g., Tonka Queen, Tonka Prince, not to
mentionGovernor. : )Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-glued
asection to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I wassurprisedto
find serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality thenIfirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not aMontaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Robert Venneri" 

Cc: ; "RODMAKERS" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re:
Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it togetthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming upwithwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rendingandchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasicreelseats
if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan  8 15:51:03 2000

(SMTPD32-5.05) id A11146F01B6; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 16:50:09 -0500

Rodmakers Listserv 

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Reed,I'm surprised you'd include Governor in there, since you're not in
NewYork with His Excellency, Geo. Pataki. We seem to breed them; we
alsohaveSir Rudy the Blackheart for Hizzoner, the Mayor!Art

At 04:20 PM 01/08/2000 -0500, reed curry wrote:George,I believe H-I made
a model called Sport King. They seemed to have apenchant for nobility, e.g.,
Tonka Queen, Tonka Prince, not to mentionGovernor. : )Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-glued
asection to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I wassurprisedto
find serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality then Ifirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not aMontaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Robert Venneri" 

Cc: ; "RODMAKERS" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re:
Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it togetthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming upwithwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rendingandchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasic
reelseats if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 15:56:50 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 15:57:11 -0600

"Rodmakers Listserv" 

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

I have a Governor. Not very impressive !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Reed,I'm surprised you'd include Governor in there, since you're not in
NewYork with His Excellency, Geo. Pataki. We seem to breed them; we
alsohaveSir Rudy the Blackheart for Hizzoner, the Mayor!Art

At 04:20 PM 01/08/2000 -0500, reed curry wrote:George,I believe H-I made
a model called Sport King. They seemed to have apenchant for nobility, e.g.,
Tonka Queen, Tonka Prince, not to mentionGovernor. : )Best regards,Reed

nobler wrote:

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-gluedasection
to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I wassurprisedto find
serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality thenIfirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not aMontaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Robert Venneri" 

Cc: ; "RODMAKERS" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re:
Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it togetthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming upwithwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rendingandchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasicreelseats
if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Jan  8 17:05:46 2000

(envelope-
from piscator@crosswinds.net)

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

I'd like to volunteer to run around the world and take tohose picture. MaybeI
can get a gov'ment grant.  Just send your donations to "Send Brian to
takethe Pictures."

BrianRodMakers,

I've been watching this thread with interest.  This HAS been one of mywishes
for some time.  Being a 'customer', not yet a cane maker, I've beenslowly
educating myself on cane, old and contemporary.  It WOULD bedelightful to go
to a site (or book), use the index and find images of canerods.  There are
more of you out there than you probably realize that AREcollectors, or know
collectors.   Without giving name, street address,cityof where the collections
are housed, I suppose you all could get quite arepository of images built up
over the next several years !  All a matterof first finding the webspace, then
getting the word out,  and handlingthelogistics of said endeavor  *G*.

When you are off and running and have posted the initial post to
theRodMakers, asking for input, several of us will cross-post to theflyfishing
website venues for you and get even more images !  

Good luck ! Great idea. And certainly cheaper than someone flying aroundthe
country and world to take firsthand snapshots *G* of the cane.Publishing a
book would be expensive !

suecolorado

from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Sat Jan  8 17:15:50 2000

0000

Subject: Sport King rods

Hello,

I believe you will find that Sport King Rods were a brand name of
theMontgomery Ward Co. and were made for them by South Bend. South
Bendalsomade many rods for Sears under the J.C.Higgins name. I have a
WardsFishingcatalog 
from 1953 I believe which shows their line of bamboo rods.

Mike 

Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C Effort  PA  18330

610 681 5670

I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned at 300 dpion
CDif anyone is interested.

http://www.mikestevens.com

http://www.OldTackle.com

mstevens@ptdprolog.net

Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River
Runt Spooks

Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles 

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jan  8 18:02:44 2000

RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was [Sharp
bamboo]

I cannot remember anyone in the UK being killed by flying
ChristmasPudding.Mind you I have not lived there for 18 years.Terry

Tony Young wrote:

Sorry, but I haven't seem the posting re the alcohol lamp exploision butisit
certain alcohol was the fuel in use? I didn't think you could get enoughpresure
in a wick type burner to cause a detonation of alcohol.If petrol was used, well
that's different.

One other question, is outback Queensland the only place you can
buymetho(alcohol) ready cooled for consumption? I'm not really expecting
ananswerto this.

Tony

At 12:25 PM 1/7/00 -0600, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Ed,

Having worked in the Comfort Conditioning industry and in
theAutomotiveService area, I know that a container full of fumes is much
moreexplosivethan a container full of flammable liquid.  Thus, I propose that
theexploding alcohol lamp was almost totally empty.  Upon application
oftheflame to the wick the escaping fumes were ignited and went back
intothecontainer and ignited the fumes there causing an explosion.

I have heard of gas tanks exploding when someone tried to repair
thembysoldering on a patch.  Even though the tank had been dry for
severaldays,there were still fumes in the tank.  A lot of these fumes are
heavierthanair and will puddle in a container and stay there.

I have seen a car gas tank successfully repaired and the repairman
hadturned the tank so that the opening was to the ground for several
daysandregularly purged the tank with compressed air.  Before attempting
therepair, he then filled the tank with water to further force out
anyremaining fumes.

I have not tried this and won't.  Before the repair I walked across thestreet
and watched 
from there as I thought he was crazy.

Dick Fuhrman

----- Original Message -----From: Ed Riddle 

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:28 AMSubject: Now Alcohol Lamp; Was
[Sharp bamboo]

John:I was an Army "Advisor" over there '62 - '63, volunteered to
go,seemedlikea good idea at the time, pls. pardon the digression, not too
unlike"whetherTrout suffers pain when hooked".  (PLEASE let's don't go there
again).

But while on horror stories:Issue 3 of BFR magazine cites an incident of an
accidental alcohollampexplosion ( after he put the Bic to the wick) in a
rodmaker's shop andthevictim was quoted as not worrying about "Why?" but
bought a heat gunforfuture use and went 
from there.  I have a lamp, not used yet, that Iboughtwith intentions of using
it in removing tip-tops and  ferrules and forstraightening sets.  I don't make
rods yet and may never, and hadn'tplannedon a heat gun in my
refinishing/restoration efforts.  Haven't seen anyfollow-up in BBFR.  I still
wonder what caused the explosion.  Anyonewantto provide alcohol lamp "do's
& don'ts" for our future safety?I thank you in advance.Ed

JohnEspecially if it's a radial arm saw and you are ripping and you
havetheblade set in the wrong direction.

Jack

strip of bamboo would be a hell of a spear to get in your gut.John

It's also pretty rough through the foot; as in, VietNamese PunjiStake.If  I
ever have the good fortune of sharing a sparkling stream withyou,askme
about it.Ed

Ed(snipped)was killed at cooper Stair Co. about 10 years ago by a strip of
oakkicking back and going completely thru his stomach. Never
standdirectlybehind the blade on a table saw.John

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 18:51:32 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:51:50 -0600

Subject: Re: Sport King rods

That fits, as it just didn't fit with H-I. I had not seen Sport King relatedto
Wards, so that's really good to know. Heddon made allot of cane rods
forSears, including one better model at least, as a #114.

Thanx,

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Sport King rods

Hello,

I believe you will find that Sport King Rods were a brand name of
theMontgomery Ward Co. and were made for them by South Bend. South
Bendalsomade many rods for Sears under the J.C.Higgins name. I have a
WardsFishingcatalog 
from 1953 I believe which shows their line of bamboo rods.

Mike

Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort  PA  18330

610 681 5670

I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned at 300
dpionCDif anyone is interested.

http://www.mikestevens.com

http://www.OldTackle.com

mstevens@ptdprolog.net

Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River
Runt Spooks

Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles

from tlongair@home.com Sat Jan  8 19:09:47 2000

(InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP

Subject: inlaid butt sections

Hi,I was cruising some flyrod makers sites the other day and I sawsome very
elegant rods with inlaid hardwood in the butt. How is thisdone?  Does it
require specialized equipment?  Is it detailed anywhere? Thanks.                    
Terry Longair

from jourdoktorn@chello.se Sat Jan  8 19:19:56 2000

(InterMail v4.01.00 201-232-112) with ESMTP

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Hi folks,

I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier and did post a coupleof
rods frommy collection just to see how it looked. I triedto choose pictures
where you can see details of interest.Take a look andjudge. Here
itis:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com

Best,Jan Nystrom

from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jan  8 19:36:14 2000

(SMTPD32-6.00) id A74B1CE800DE; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:41:31 -0500

Subject: Re: Sport King rods

boundary="------------C374ABA8C11EC61282285CB6"

--------------C374ABA8C11EC61282285CB6

Mike,Thanks for straightening this out. My memory is not what it once
was(apparently, it never was...). I really should stick to those rods I knowwell.

[Image]Assuming that the figure above represents a Sport King fly rod (I
tookthisoff the net) does this mean that it is a South Bend Model 28? (they
didn'tsellunder their name a model 28... so it could be).Thanks again.Best
regards,Reed

"Michael W. Stevens" wrote:

Hello,

I believe you will find that Sport King Rods were a brand name of
theMontgomery Ward Co. and were made for them by South Bend. South
Bendalsomade many rods for Sears under the J.C.Higgins name. I have a
WardsFishingcatalog 
from 1953 I believe which shows their line of bamboo rods.

Mike

Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort  PA  18330

610 681 5670

I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned at 300 dpion
CDif anyone is interested.

http://www.mikestevens.com

http://www.OldTackle.com

mstevens@ptdprolog.net

Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River
Runt Spooks

Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles

--------------C374ABA8C11EC61282285CB6

boundary="------------AE367EFE08AE4159B5496CB0"

--------------AE367EFE08AE4159B5496CB0

Mike,

not what it once was (apparently, it never was...). I really should stickto
those rods I know well.

King fly rod (I took this off the net) does this mean that it is a SouthBend
Model 28? (they didn't sell under their name a model 28... so it couldbe).

Best regards,Reed"Michael W. Stevens" wrote:Hello,I believe you will find that
Sport King Rods were a brand name of theMontgomery Ward Co. and were
made for them by South Bend. SouthBendalsomade many rods for Sears
under the J.C.Higgins name. I have a WardsFishingcatalog 
from 1953 I believe which shows their line of bamboo rods.MikeMichael
StevensRR 1 Box 307C

610 681 5670I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned
at 300dpion CDif anyone is
interested.http://www.mikestevens.comhttp://www.OldTackle.commstevens@ptdprolog.netCollector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe
baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt SpooksMaker of Fine Sights for Antique
Single Shot TargetRifles

from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jan  8 19:36:37 2000

(SMTPD32-6.00) id A76E1CEB00DE; Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:42:06 -0500

Subject: Re: Sport King rods

boundary="------------E1DA7E92CC95FCBCC2895EB5"

--------------E1DA7E92CC95FCBCC2895EB5

Mike,Thanks for straightening this out. My memory is not what it once
was(apparently, it never was...). I really should stick to those rods I knowwell.

[Image]Assuming that the figure above represents a Sport King fly rod (I
tookthisoff the net) does this mean that it is a South Bend Model 28? (they
didn'tsellunder their name a model 28... so it could be).Thanks again.Best
regards,Reed

"Michael W. Stevens" wrote:

Hello,

I believe you will find that Sport King Rods were a brand name of
theMontgomery Ward Co. and were made for them by South Bend. South
Bendalsomade many rods for Sears under the J.C.Higgins name. I have a
WardsFishingcatalog 
from 1953 I believe which shows their line of bamboo rods.

Mike

Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort  PA  18330

610 681 5670

I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned at 300 dpion
CDif anyone is interested.

http://www.mikestevens.com

http://www.OldTackle.com

mstevens@ptdprolog.net

Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River
Runt Spooks

Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles

--------------E1DA7E92CC95FCBCC2895EB5

boundary="------------797DE55CD16E4845B30A2619"

--------------797DE55CD16E4845B30A2619

Mike,

not what it once was (apparently, it never was...). I really should stickto
those rods I know well.

King fly rod (I took this off the net) does this mean that it is a SouthBend
Model 28? (they didn't sell under their name a model 28... so it couldbe).

Best regards,Reed"Michael W. Stevens" wrote:Hello,I believe you will find that
Sport King Rods were a brand name of theMontgomery Ward Co. and were
made for them by South Bend. SouthBendalsomade many rods for Sears
under the J.C.Higgins name. I have a WardsFishingcatalog 
from 1953 I believe which shows their line of bamboo rods.MikeMichael
StevensRR 1 Box 307C

610 681 5670I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned
at 300dpion CDif anyone is
interested.http://www.mikestevens.comhttp://www.OldTackle.commstevens@ptdprolog.netCollector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe
baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt SpooksMaker of Fine Sights for Antique
Single Shot TargetRifles

--------------797DE55CD16E4845B30A2619

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--------
------797DE55CD16E4845B30A2619--

--------------E1DA7E92CC95FCBCC2895EB5--

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 19:42:02 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:32:53 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

My what a BUNCH ! Are these all yours ? Wow ! I have an old Orvis
aboutlikeyours, but not in that nice of shape. Are these all originals, or did
youmake some of them ?

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Hi folks,

I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier and did post acouple of
rods 
from my collection just to see how it looked. I triedto choose pictures where
you can see details of interest.Take a look andjudge. Here it
is:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com

Best,Jan Nystrom

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 19:45:16 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:36:06 -0600

Subject: Re: Sport King rods

type="multipart/alternative";boundary="----
=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF5A10.FD669BC0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF5A10.FD669BC0

boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01BF5A10.FD669BC0"

------=_NextPart_001_000E_01BF5A10.FD669BC0

Gee, I don't know ! That's the decal on mine tho', to a "T" ! I can =think of no
Model 28, or 74, for that matter in S.B., so must assume =it's a Wards
model number ????

GMA

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 7:35 PMSubject: Re: Sport King rods

Thanks for straightening this out. My memory is not what it once =was
(apparently, it never was...). I really should stick to those rods I =

Assuming that the figure above represents a Sport King fly rod (I =took this
off the net) does this mean that it is a South Bend Model 28? =

I believe you will find that Sport King Rods were a brand name of =

Montgomery Ward Co. and were made for them by South Bend. South Bend=

made many rods for Sears under the J.C.Higgins name. I have a Wards =

I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned at 300 =

Rifles

------=_NextPart_001_000E_01BF5A10.FD669BC0

Gee, I don't know ! That's the decal on mine=

a "T" ! I can think of no Model 28, or 74, for that matter in S.B., so =

assume it's a Wards model number ????

GMA

----- Original Message ----- 

reed =curry 

Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu=

Sent: Saturday, January 08, =

PMSubject: Re: Sport King =rods

My memory is not what it once was (apparently, it never was...). I =

Sport King fly rod (I took this off the net) does this mean that it is =

Bend Model 28? (they didn't sell under their name a model 28... so it =

I believe you will find that Sport King Rods were a brand name of =

Montgomery Ward Co. and were made for them by South Bend. South=

also made many rods for Sears under the J.C.Higgins name. I have =

Fishing catalog 
from 1953 I believe which shows their line of =

18330 =

I am offering a 1940 and a 1952 Heddon Catalog each scanned at =

http://www.OldTackle.com =

Rifles

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF5A10.FD669BC0--

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 19:53:41 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:44:36 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Good Ol' aol, has blocked my viewing the photos now ! I just went back, tolook
at them again, and got a message block that said aol would not allowmeto
view the photos !

Neat HUH ?

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Hi folks,

I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier and did post acouple of
rods 
from my collection just to see how it looked. I triedto choose pictures where
you can see details of interest.Take a look andjudge. Here it
is:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com

Best,Jan Nystrom

from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Jan  8 19:57:40 2000

(envelope-
from piscator@crosswinds.net)

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="------------388ED79C219EE554FA830842"

--------------388ED79C219EE554FA830842

Jan-Nice lumber!  The photos are good, but I (and this is just metalking here)
would like to see photos that more express the feeling ofholding the rod. 
This would take several pictures (like the rod at thebottom of your "note
card.")

Because I'm thick in the skull and always did better in classeswhere there
were more pictures than text in the books, I'd like to seethe following in a
photo set.

* An over all photo of the entire rod.  Call it the "Marty KeaneShot."  Real
pretty, real sharp, nice, plain drop background.* A photo of the lower section
of the butt showing butt cap, reelseat, grip and cork check or hook keeper*
Signature data and signature wrap* Ferrule wraps and tip top wraps* Guide
wraps and if present, intermediates* Close-ups of any special details
(whatever makes this rod unique),maybe node spacing, etc.* Any notes you
would write for yourself if you were going torefinish the rod, (Maker, Model
#, length, # of pieces, differentwrap color for the wet tip, etc.)* Guide
spacing would be nice* I know there are two schools of thought on tapers. 
Those who thinkthey all ought to be shared and those who think they're a
craftsecret to be hoarded.  For me, if I'm going to all this trouble I'mdamn
sure gonna take down the taper.  If the rod maker is dead I'llshare.  If he's
alive and wants to share it himself, fine.

The photos should be as good as you can do, (this is for posterity,after all.) 
And I think that we can get some of the real photographersout there to give
us some workshops at gatherings.  (Hey Charlie, maybewe could use the pool
table at Spikes before they open if we offer tovacuum the crumbs off of it. 
Nice, restful green, subdued backgroundlighting....  It would be magical.)

This is pretty thrown together, but I've run on too long already, soI would like
to have others improve on this and let's see if we can'tmove forward.

Brian

--------------388ED79C219EE554FA830842

Jan-

this is just me talking here) would like to see photos that more express

(like the rod at the bottom of your "note card.")

betterin classes where there were more pictures than text in the books, I'd
liketo see the following in a photo set.

Real pretty, real sharp, nice, plain drop background.

A photo of the lower section of the butt showing butt cap, reel seat, gripand
cork check or hook keeper

Signature data and signature wrap

Ferrule wraps and tip top wraps

Guide wraps and if present, intermediates

Close-ups of any special details (whatever makes this rod unique),
maybenode spacing, etc.

Any notes you would write for yourself if you were going to refinish therod,
(Maker, Model #, length, # of pieces, different wrap color for thewet tip,
etc.)

Guide spacing would be nice

they all ought to be shared and those who think they're a craft secret

If he's alive and wants to share it himself, fine.

The photos should be as good as you can do, (this is for posterity, after

maybe we could use the pool table at Spikes before they open if we offer

background

long already, so I would like to have others improve on this and let'ssee if we
can't move forward.

Brian

--------------388ED79C219EE554FA830842--

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jan  8 20:05:55 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:05:44 -0800

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

jan nystråm wrote:

Hi folks,

I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier............. Here it
is:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com

Jan,Thanks for sharing.  This is fun.  I've got a couple of really old
Leonard'sI'll putup when I get them redone.  Interesting that theGary Howells
rod has more than one stripper guide, and I'm guessing morethan one
midsection ...??

Harry

--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 20:33:57 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 20:24:39 -0600

"RODMAKERS" 

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0076_01BF5A17.C5E48A20"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BF5A17.C5E48A20

certain rare builder finished his rod. Being able to restore to a known
=pattern, color of silk, etc., is the biggest favor we can do for each =other.

GMA

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 7:41 PMSubject: Re: Pictures of original
classic rods

Nice lumber!  The photos are good, but I (and this is just me =talking here)
would like to see photos that more express the feeling of =holding the rod. 
This would take several pictures (like the rod at the =

Because I'm thick in the skull and always did better in classes =where there
were more pictures than text in the books, I'd like to see =

a.. An over all photo of the entire rod.  Call it the "Marty Keane =

b.. A photo of the lower section of the butt showing butt cap, reel =

f.. Close-ups of any special details (whatever makes this rod =

g.. Any notes you would write for yourself if you were going to =refinish the
rod, (Maker, Model #, length, # of pieces, different wrap =

i.. I know there are two schools of thought on tapers.  Those who =think they
all ought to be shared and those who think they're a craft =secret to be
hoarded.  For me, if I'm going to all this trouble I'm damn =sure gonna take
down the taper.  If the rod maker is dead I'll share.  =

The photos should be as good as you can do, (this is for posterity, =after
all.)  And I think that we can get some of the real photographers =out there
to give us some workshops at gatherings.  (Hey Charlie, maybe =we could use
the pool table at Spikes before they open if we offer to =vacuum the crumbs
off of it.  Nice, restful green, subdued background =

This is pretty thrown together, but I've run on too long already, =so I would
like to have others improve on this and let's see if we can't =

------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BF5A17.C5E48A20

=

to show how a certain rare builder finished his rod. Being able to =

known pattern, color of silk, etc., is the biggest favor we can do for =

other.

GMA

----- Original Message ----- 

D. Creek 

Sent: Saturday, January 08, =

PMSubject: Re: Pictures of =

rods

good, but I (and this is just me talking here) would like to see =

classes where there were more pictures than text in the books, I'd =

A photo of the lower section of the butt showing butt cap, reel =

Close-ups of any special details (whatever makes this rod =

Any notes you would write for yourself if you were going to =

rod, (Maker, Model #, length, # of pieces, different wrap color for =

they all ought to be shared and those who think they're a craft =

he's alive and wants to share it himself, fine. The photos =

that we can get some of the real photographers out there to give us =

at Spikes before they open if we offer to vacuum the crumbs off of =

already, so I would like to have others improve on this and let's see =

Brian 

------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BF5A17.C5E48A20--

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan  8 20:48:18 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: rod pics

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my sample.
http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics yet, or
should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan  8 20:53:39 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 22:53:01 -0400

Subject: Re: Node spacing

Good Question Tony! Does anyone have the taper for that rod? Also
whatstagger did Payne use (Payne 97 and others.)? Did most makers stick
toone stagger or switch to suit the rod?Shawn Pineo

Tony Spezio wrote:

Can anyone give me the node stager that was usedon the Granger 7' 4
wt.ThanksTony Flytyr@southshore.com

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan  8 20:54:26 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: pics

Okay, this one looks better. Bigger is
better.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgBob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan  8 21:00:38 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 22:59:57 -0400

Subject: Re: rod pics

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jan  8 21:10:20 2000

Subject: Re: rod pics

It will not work for me either.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Shawn Pineo wrote:

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan  8 21:11:31 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 8 Jan 2000 21:02:21 -0600

Subject: Re: rod pics

It came up in a few seconds for me. I have many who use Netscape,
whocan'tview my web site ! Go figure !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: rod pics

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan  8 21:42:44 2000

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with
SMTP id com; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 21:40:24 -0600

Subject: Re: rod pics

Hey, guys try it like this http://www.downandacross.com/winston.jpg
InBobsoriginal, the forward slashes were backslashes... I.E. overlooks this
andcorrects it, Nutscrape doesn't... Oops.. Netscape!... sorry :^)

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: rod pics

It will not work for me either.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Shawn Pineo wrote:

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan  8 21:54:35 2000

Sat, 8 Jan 2000 23:53:55 -0400

Subject: Re: rod pics

Good show Bob "N"!!. I'll have to remember that one!Nice pics Bob "M"!!
Although I think a little larger or perhaps 6 pics wouldbeeven
better!ShawnBob Nunley wrote:

Hey, guys try it like this http://www.downandacross.com/winston.jpg
InBobsoriginal, the forward slashes were backslashes... I.E. overlooks this
andcorrects it, Nutscrape doesn't... Oops.. Netscape!... sorry :^)

-----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio 

Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 9:11 PMSubject: Re: rod pics

It will not work for me either.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Shawn Pineo wrote:

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan  8 22:42:40 2000

Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:43:29 +0800

Subject: Re: Some thoughts on splicing

Well said.

Tony

At 01:48 PM 1/8/00 -0500, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:I've been following
the debate, and thought I would add my .02 to the proceedings.  The
strongest glue joint you can make is long grain to long grain, as in gluing
boards edge to edge. The weakest joint is end grain to end grain. I remember
reading some time ago that a 12:1 splice results in about an 85% long grain
to long grain joint, which is plenty strong. If a splice fails you have used the
wrong glue, or your craftsmanship issuspect. I think in rodbuilding we have
two separate types of splices to consider; supported splices and
unsupported splices.A supported splice is the type used by our nodeless
brethren, here the spliced strip will be nested into the glued up matrix of the
section andthe sides of the splice will be reinforced by the adjacent strip. I
have heardof very few failures with this type of construction, and those
were caused

excessive heat being applied to Titebond glued splices in thestraightening
process. I believe any reasonable glue will work in this application, aslong as
you think about heat application. Personally, I use resourcinol which is totally
heatproof, and worth the cosmetic tradeoff IMHO.The repair splice is an
unsupported splice. Here, the full section of therod is spliced, to repair a
complete break. I have done a whole lot of these things and can report the
following. Titebond type glues and hardwarestore epoxies will fail every time.
A strong epoxy like Epon 828 is fine, I have also had success with a
boatbuilding epoxy known as Evercoat.Resourcinoland Urac are also up to the
job. Another type of unsupported splice is that used in the two strip
quads.We now have a lot of experience with these things as well. Titebond is
definitely not up to the job, everyone has had failures. I've heard of some
epon failures as well, but I suspect the problem was heat straightening again.
I just built one with resourcinol splices, and it seems fine, even though I did a
lot of straightening, as is always necessary with the two strip quads.On
another topic, I believe Terry is absolutely right on the difficulties of planing
a sawn strip. I suspect the fellow who reported success withsawn strips
might be splitting wide sections first and then sawing out thenarrow strips.
That, I think might just be OK. Either that, or he is lucky enoughto have some
very straight grained culms. My advice to any newbie is tolisten to Terry.
Saw if you own a milling machine, but split if you are planing.You will save
yourself a lot of grief.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

And this our life, exempt 
from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in
stones, and good in everything.

William Shakespeare,    As You Like It

/*************************************************************************/

from richjez@enteract.com Sat Jan  8 23:20:11 2000

(envelope-
from richjez@enteract.com)

Subject: Re: rod pics

boundary="=====================_27252840==_.ALT"

--=====================_27252840==_.ALT

I'am using netscape and both times it loaded OK.Rich Jezioro

At 09:12 PM 1/8/00 -0600, nobler wrote:It came up in a few seconds for
me. I have many who use Netscape, whocan'tview my web site ! Go figure !

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" 

Cc: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 9:57 AMSubject: Re: rod pics

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

*________________________________)//        Rich
Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):>       >                   ))):>--
=====================_27252840==_.ALT

I'am using netscape and both times it loaded OK.Rich Jezioro

At 09:12 PM 1/8/00 -0600, nobler wrote:It came up in a few seconds for
me. I havemany who use Netscape, who can'tview my web site ! Go figure !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: rod pics

,maybe

Shawn

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D

*_____________

___________________)

@/

||/

____/||_________________________________________

p;/\ 

;

/

bsp;

--=====================_27252840==_.ALT--

from saweiss@flash.net Sat Jan  8 23:44:51 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Smooth, untextured backgrounds will allow faster downloading.
Complexfinedetail in textured backgrounds like rugs, grass, stones, bark, and
otherstakes up too many pixels or whatever is needed to record all
theunnecessarydata.Steve

from what little I have learned, since getting a digital camera, resizingimages
to approx. 300 x 225 will allow pictures to down load faster, andtake up less
space, while the image change is hardly detectable.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "sue kreutzer" 

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:07 AMSubject: Re: Pictures of original
classic rods

RodMakers,

I've been watching this thread with interest.  This HAS been one of mywishes
for some time.  Being a 'customer', not yet a cane maker, I'vebeenslowly
educating myself on cane, old and contemporary.  It WOULD bedelightful to go
to a site (or book), use the index and find images ofcanerods.  There are
more of you out there than you probably realize thatAREcollectors, or know
collectors.   Without giving name, street address,cityof where the collections
are housed, I suppose you all could get quite arepository of images built up
over the next several years !  All amatterof first finding the webspace, then
getting the word out,  and handlingthelogistics of said endeavor  *G*.

When you are off and running and have posted the initial post to
theRodMakers, asking for input, several of us will cross-post to theflyfishing
website venues for you and get even more images !

Good luck ! Great idea. And certainly cheaper than someone flyingaroundthe
country and world to take firsthand snapshots *G* of the cane.Publishing a
book would be expensive !

suecolorado

from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sun Jan  9 04:13:18 2000

Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:08:04 +1100

Subject: Re: rod pics

Bob: Good to have a legible adress. The pictures are nice. Are theothers
legible now?   Sean

Bob Nunley wrote:

Hey, guys try it like this http://www.downandacross.com/winston.jpg
InBobsoriginal, the forward slashes were backslashes... I.E. overlooks this
andcorrects it, Nutscrape doesn't... Oops.. Netscape!... sorry :^)

-----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio 

Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 9:11 PMSubject: Re: rod pics

It will not work for me either.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Shawn Pineo wrote:

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan  9 07:28:16 2000

Subject: Re: Beveling

I made the Medved beveler 
from plans in the Planing Form.      They do nothave to be perfectly straight.
I straighten the nodes and press them andrunthem through the beveler. It
saves a lot of time and worth making.  DaveNorling-----Original Message-----

Subject: Beveling

Guys,

Been thinking that each of the bevelers require that the cane
beabsolutelystraight 
from the get go. Any ideas how this is accomplished?

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan  9 07:36:13 2000

(SMTPD32-5.05) id AE90A4F02A6; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 08:35:12 -0500

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

All,Are these sites likely to stay up or are they temporary by
nature?Thereason I'm asking is that I'm transferring the messages with the
URLs intoa "Go here to find picture" mailbox so I don't have to download all
thosefiles to my hard-drive. Should I grab the pictures while I can and
transferthem to floppies or can I reasonably expect to return to your sites
andfind them when I need them?TIA,Art

At 02:19 AM 01/09/2000 +0100, jan nystråm wrote:Hi folks,

I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier and did post acouple of
rods 
from my collection just to see how it looked. I triedto choose pictures where
you can see details of interest.Take a look andjudge. Here it
is:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com

Best,Jan Nystrom

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan  9 07:37:34 2000

Sun, 9 Jan 2000 05:37:24 -0800

"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="------------FA0EA8326955573E05DA2340"

--------------FA0EA8326955573E05DA2340

"Brian D. Creek" wrote:

Because I'm thick in the skull and always did better in classeswhere there
were more pictures than text in the books, I'd like to seethe following in a
photo set.

* An over all photo of the entire rod.  Call it the "Marty KeaneShot."  Real
pretty, real sharp, nice, plain drop background.* A photo of the lower section
of the butt showing butt cap, reelseat, grip and cork check or hook keeper*
Signature data and signature wrap* Ferrule wraps and tip top wraps* Guide
wraps and if present, intermediates* Close-ups of any special details
(whatever makes this rodunique), maybe node spacing, etc.* Any notes you
would write for yourself if you were going torefinish the rod, (Maker, Model
#, length, # of pieces, differentwrap color for the wet tip, etc.)* Guide
spacing would be nice* I know there are two schools of thought on tapers. 
Those whothink they all ought to be shared and those who think they're
acraft secret to be hoarded.  For me, if I'm going to all thistrouble I'm damn
sure gonna take down the taper.  If the rodmaker is dead I'll share.  If he's
alive and wants to share ithimself, fine.

(Hey Charlie, maybe we could use the pool table at Spikes before theyopen if
we offer to vacuum the crumbs off of it.  Nice, restful green,subdued
background lighting....  It would be magical.)

Okay, Charlie, maybe you missed Brian's point....  How do we getthese shots? 
You're the pro, along with a few others out there.  Solet's hear it.  Give us
wannabe's some photo tips, please!!!

Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

--------------FA0EA8326955573E05DA2340

"Brian D. Creek" wrote:

and always did better in classes where there were more pictures than textin
the books, I'd like to see the following in a photo set.

Real pretty, real sharp, nice, plain drop background.

A photo of the lower section of the butt showing butt cap, reel seat, gripand
cork check or hook keeper

Signature data and signature wrap

Ferrule wraps and tip top wraps

Guide wraps and if present, intermediates

Close-ups of any special details (whatever makes this rod unique),
maybenode spacing, etc.

Any notes you would write for yourself if you were going to refinish therod,
(Maker, Model #, length, # of pieces, different wrap color for thewet tip,
etc.)

Guide spacing would be nice

they all ought to be shared and those who think they're a craft secret

If he's alive and wants to share it himself, fine.

magical.)

missed

wannabe's some photo tips, please!!!

--Harry Boyd

http://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/

--------------FA0EA8326955573E05DA2340--

from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan  9 07:56:32 2000

(SMTPD32-5.05) id A360AC502A6; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 08:55:44 -0500

Subject: Re: Beveling

Yes, it seems to me that when taking small increments (all you wantto dowith
the Medved unless you wish to sacrifice your strip to the router-God;DON'T
ask me how I know) you're pressing the opposite (split) side into the"anvil" as
you cut, just as you press it into the planing form when youplane! Besides,
you ain't bevelling anyway so you're not worried about thetapering being
skewed to one side or the other.I'm using Al's invention consistently and am
having very fewproblems withthe ingenious (to my mind) device.Art

At 07:27 AM 01/09/2000 -0800, lars32 wrote:I made the Medved beveler 
from plans in the Planing Form.      They do nothave to be perfectly straight.
I straighten the nodes and press them andrunthem through the beveler. It
saves a lot of time and worth making.  DaveNorling-----Original Message-----
From: Don & Sandy Andersen 

Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 5:32 AMSubject: Beveling

Guys,

Been thinking that each of the bevelers require that the cane
beabsolutelystraight 
from the get go. Any ideas how this is accomplished?

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan  9 08:42:34 2000

Subject: Things you think about at 3 am

"Shawn Pineo, New Scotland Flyrods" wrote:

I was up till 3:30 this morning working on a rod (I'm starting to see apattern
here!) and trying out my new forms and I got to wondering, "Howdo you
convert a hex taper to a quad taper??". Seems to me that I heardthere was
a formula and maybe even a program for the computer. It justseems very
hard to find quad tapers and I was thinking I would build aset of Quad forms if
I ever forget what a pain in the *** building thehex set was!Has anyone tried
the converted tapers? If so, are they as good asestablished Quad tapers or
should I stick to established tapers, if Iever find any.

Shawn(bloodshot eyes)Pineo

from lblove@cableone.net Sun Jan  9 08:43:24 2000

MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 07:43:17 -0700

Subject: Re: rod pics\/ noting to do with rods...

Bob must be an old MS dude,  that likes the dark place(DOS)...ha ha he
he,Bradley----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: rod pics

Bob: Good to have a legible adress. The pictures are nice. Are theothers
legible now?   Sean

Bob Nunley wrote:

Hey, guys try it like this
http://www.downandacross.com/winston.jpgInBobsoriginal, the forward
slashes were backslashes... I.E. overlooks thisandcorrects it, Nutscrape
doesn't... Oops.. Netscape!... sorry :^)

-----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio 

Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 9:11 PMSubject: Re: rod pics

It will not work for me either.Tony    FlyTyr@southshore.com

Shawn Pineo wrote:

Bob , that link doesn't want to work for me? Is it just me ,maybebecause I'm
now using Netsuck?Anyone else get to it?Shawn

bob maulucci wrote:

Hi Brian and all:How big do you want the pics. Here's my
sample.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgCan we send you pics
yet, or should we wait?Thanks,Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Jan  9 08:48:34 2000

Subject: Re: inlaid butt sections

Hi Terry,Perhaps the type of rod butt section to which you are referring is
the onedescribed in Martin Keane's book "Classic Rods and Rodmakers" on
page 56.Ithas a handle made of 6 cane strips with 6 cedar strips laid in
between. It'struly remarkable to see and wonder how it was done. I have a
Conroy,Bissetand Malleson rod with this type handle and have photographed
it. When mybelated Christmas present arrives ( a scanner) I'd be happy to
send it toyou. Sounds like it'll be a candidate for the photo collection now
beingdiscussed by the rodmakers list.Ray----- Original Message -----

Subject: inlaid butt sections

Hi,I was cruising some flyrod makers sites the other day and I sawsome very
elegant rods with inlaid hardwood in the butt. How is thisdone?  Does it
require specialized equipment?  Is it detailed anywhere?Thanks.                    
Terry Longair

from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Jan  9 08:48:41 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Hi George,I condur with Mike Stevens response. The Sports King was sold
byMontgomeryWard and made for them by South Bend. I have a record of one
I worked oneinked with M/32 an 8 1/2ft x 3pc rod also marked 60-6669.Ray-
---- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-glued
asection to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I wassurprisedto
find serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality then Ifirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not aMontaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Robert Venneri" 

Cc: ; "RODMAKERS" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re:
Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it togetthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming upwithwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rendingandchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasic
reelseats if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Jan  9 09:00:04 2000

RODMAKERS 

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

At 08:41 PM 1/8/2000 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: 

Great idea! It seems to me that if we go to the trouble to make
highinformation content photos we should also include some documentation
ofthe rod. Sometimes even the best photos do not tell the whole story.
Mywife has been involved in documenting antique quilts. There is usualy
astory behind every one of them. Also there other crticaly important picesof
info that do not show. Perhaps a standar documentation form should
beincluded for each rod.

JMHO

Jan- 

Nice lumber!  The photos are good, but I (and this is just me talkinghere)
would like to see photos that more express the feeling of holdingthe rod. 
This would take several pictures (like the rod at the bottom ofyour "note
card.") 

Because I'm thick in the skull and always did better in classes wherethere
were more pictures than text in the books, I'd like to see thefollowing in a
photo set. 

left*  An over all photo of the entire rod. Call it the "Marty Keane Shot."  Real
pretty, real sharp, nice, plaindrop background. 

*  A photo of the lower section of the butt showing butt cap, reel seat,grip
and cork check or hook keeper 

*  Signature data and signature wrap 

*  Ferrule wraps and tip top wraps 

*  Guide wraps and if present, intermediates 

*  Close-ups of any special details (whatever makes this rod unique),maybe
node spacing, etc. 

*  Any notes you would write for yourself if you were going to refinishthe
rod, (Maker, Model #, length, # of pieces, different wrap color forthe wet tip,
etc.) 

*  Guide spacing would be nice 

*  I know there are two schools of thought on tapers.  Those who thinkthey
all ought to be shared and those who think they're a craft secret tobe
hoarded.  For me, if I'm going to all this trouble I'm damn sure gonnatake
down the taper.  If the rod maker is dead I'll share.  If he's aliveand wants to
share it himself, fine. 

The photos should be as good as you can do, (this is forposterity, after all.) 
And I think that we can get some of the realphotographers out there to give
us some workshops at gatherings.  (HeyCharlie, maybe we could use the pool
table at Spikes before they open ifwe offer to vacuum the crumbs off of it. 
Nice, restful green, subduedbackground lighting....  It would be magical.) 

This is pretty thrown together, but I've run on too long already, soI would like
to have others improve on this and let's see if we can'tmove forward. 

Brian 

from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan  9 09:02:01 2000

(envelope-
from bob@downandacross.com)

Subject: Re: pics

Andrew:Sorry, I sold that Winston to get forms and stuff, and I never put
the calipers to it. Sorry. I can try to contact the buyer. I figured that since
they still sell rods, I wouldn't take the taper. Now I regret missing the
oppurtunity. It was a 9' 8wt. 2/1. I liked the double wrapped guides look. It
was fluted/hollowed and was a real canon of a rod.Bob

At 12:40 AM 1/9/00 -0800, you wrote:HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN
MEASUREMENTS OF THAT WINSTON.  I WOULDAPPRECIATE ANYWINSTON
TAPERS.  TIAAI

On Sat, 08 Jan 2000 21:52:42 -0500 bob maulucci

writes:Okay, this one looks better. Bigger is
better.http:\\www.downandacross.com\winston.jpgBob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

Bob
Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com

from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Jan  9 09:12:07 2000

Subject: Re: 4'4" 4wt. guide spacing

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF5A70.CB78ECC0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF5A70.CB78ECC0

boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01BF5A70.CB78ECC0"

------=_NextPart_001_000A_01BF5A70.CB78ECC0

Hi Bradley,I don't have the guide spacing you're looking for but I do have some
=short rod tapers I'll gladly share. They're in the attached excel file =and
there's a story that goes with two of them. The Hardy A& F banty
was=brought to me by a chap who looked a bit down in the mouth since this
=beautiful rod had been badly damaged while sent to him through the mail. =It
had been placed in a somewhat soft rod tube that somehow got
crushed=splintering both the tip section and the butt section. Although it
was a =bit of a dicey job I convinced him to let me work my magic on the rod
=and it turned out just fine. It's the shortest rod I've ever seen and =now
adorns a place of honor in his home.The other story relates to the Orvis
Mitey Mite which I restored for =it's owner. He told me he had landed a huge
trout (I believe it was 11 =lbs) on this dainty 1 1/2oz wand. Wow! I hope your
luck is as good!Ray

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: 4'4" 4wt. guide spacing

Hello List members,

Is there anybody on the list who could provide me with the guide =sizes and
spacing for the 4'4" 4wt. A.J. Thramer rod that is in the =taper archives? 
Also does anyone have any other short rod (under 6') =tapers?

Thank in advance

Bradley Love

------=_NextPart_001_000A_01BF5A70.CB78ECC0

Hi Bradley,I don't have the guide spacing you're =

but I do have some short rod tapers I'll gladly share. They're in the =

excel file and there's a story that goes with two of them. The Hardy =

banty was brought to me by a chap who looked a bit down in the mouth =

=

was a bit of a dicey job I convinced him to let me work my magic on the =

it turned out just fine. It's the shortest rod I've ever seen and now =

place of honor in his home.The other story relates to the Orvis =

which I restored for it's owner. He told me he had landed a huge trout =

believe it was 11 lbs) on this dainty 1 1/2oz wand. Wow! I hope your =

good!Ray

----- Original Message ----- 

Love 

=

Sent: Saturday, January 08, =

AMSubject: 4'4" 4wt. guide =spacing

Hello List members,

provide me with the guide sizes and spacing for the 4'4" 4wt. A.J. =

(under 6') tapers?

Thank in advance

Bradley Love

------=_NextPart_001_000A_01BF5A70.CB78ECC0--

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF5A70.CB78ECC0

name="short rod tapers.xls"

filename="short rod tapers.xls"

from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Jan  9 09:22:27 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

All,

Great shots, and a tremendous idea. Speaking personally, I would love
toseedetail shots - close-ups of ferrules, tips, signature/intermed.
wraps,handles/grips, etc. If one included the standard shots that we see
sooften,there could be about 6 to 10 shots per rod, possibly more. When you
thinkofit, those that have access to some of the more important rods -
Garrision's,Dickerson's, et. al. - almost owe the world a photo survey! I also
wonder ifwe shouldn't tie the process in with the archives - photos to go with
thetapers.

Jerry, you out there? What do you think.

Jim----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Hi folks,

I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier and did post acouple of
rods 
from my collection just to see how it looked. I triedto choose pictures where
you can see details of interest.Take a look andjudge. Here it
is:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com

Best,Jan Nystrom

from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan  9 09:57:00 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

el wrongo Brian !  *S*

I'd like to volunteer to run around the world and take thosepicture.  Maybe I
can get a gov'ment grant.  Just send yourdonations to "Send Brian to take
the Pictures."

I got the dibs first !   remember .....  *VVBG*

Good luck ! Great idea. And certainly cheaper than someone flying around the
country and world to take firsthand snapshots*G* of the cane.  Publishing a
book would be expensive !

me private email, I've been known to jump up and volunteer to
dosomethinglike this in the past.   Don't have time to help on this one, but
couldgive you some advice and fair-warning about what you'll run into. 
Firstthings first, you have to find a benefactor with a gadzillion mB that
youand the RodM can use in perpetuity (sp?) ...

cheers,suecolorado

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan  9 10:15:23 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 10:15:46 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Thanks to all on the S.B./Wards/Sport King I.D..

I finished restoring the grip/ferrule last night, which had just come apart.I
roughed up the outside of the fly rod end ferrule, to give better
gluingcontact. I then wet the wood core under the cork, and assembled the
wholething with the Pro-Bond poly urethane glue. The front 1/4" cork ring
wasalso loose, and this was re-glued at the same time. The entire area
waswrapped with binding cord, and the foaming glue was wiped away, until
itstopped.. (about 15 minutes) This morning it is solid, and the gap in thecork
ring is closed 
from the binding. I did wet the cork well, but itappears that the glue helped
swell the gap closed.

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Hi George,I condur with Mike Stevens response. The Sports King was sold
byMontgomeryWard and made for them by South Bend. I have a record of one
I workedoneinked with M/32 an 8 1/2ft x 3pc rod also marked 60-6669.Ray--
--- Original Message -----From: nobler 

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 1:11 PMSubject: Re: Pictures of original
classic rods

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-glued
asection to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I wassurprisedto
find serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality thenIfirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not aMontaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Robert Venneri" 

Cc: ; "RODMAKERS" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re:
Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it togetthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming upwithwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rendingandchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasicreelseats
if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from edriddle@mindspring.com Sun Jan  9 10:19:18 2000

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0306_01BF5A92.D6DB8920"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0306_01BF5A92.D6DB8920

Doug:Michael Sinclair, in his "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" page 29, has
=a one-page Rod Log that seems to cover what you're saying.  I don't have
=the h'ware to show it, and would need to get written permission 
from =Centennial Publications anyway.Ed-----Original Message-----From:
Douglas P. Easton 

jourdoktorn@chello.se ; RODMAKERS =

Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 10:00 AMSubject: Re: Pictures of original
classic rods

Great idea! It seems to me that if we go to the trouble to make high
=information content photos we should also include some documentation
of=the rod. Sometimes even the best photos do not tell the whole story. My
=wife has been involved in documenting antique quilts. There is usualy a
=story behind every one of them. Also there other crticaly important =pices
of info that do not show. Perhaps a standar documentation form =should be
included for each rod.JMHO

------=_NextPart_000_0306_01BF5A92.D6DB8920

Doug:Michael =

"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" page 29, has a one-pageRod
=

anyway.Ed

-----Original =

piscator@crosswinds.net=

jourdoktorn@chello.se =

=

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=

Sunday, January 09, 2000 10:00 AMSubject: Re: =

original classic rodsAt 08:41 PM 1/8/2000 =

D. Creek wrote: Great idea! It seems to me that if we go to =

trouble to make high information content photos we should also =

documentation of the rod. Sometimes even the best photos do not tell =

whole story. My wife has been involved in documenting antique =

is usualy a story behind every one of them. Also there other =

important pices of info that do not show. Perhaps a standar =

------=_NextPart_000_0306_01BF5A92.D6DB8920--

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan  9 10:21:19 2000

SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 10:21:41 -0600

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

It was the serrated ferrules that threw me, as I have several S.B.'s, andnone
have this type of ferrule on them ! Oddly, the last two sections of thefly rod
portion, would make a nice 4 or 5 wt. 6.5" rod ! The low amount ofguides, and
poor spacing on the casting rod tip, is the only "cheap"indication !

GMA----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods

Hi George,I condur with Mike Stevens response. The Sports King was sold
byMontgomeryWard and made for them by South Bend. I have a record of one
I workedoneinked with M/32 an 8 1/2ft x 3pc rod also marked 60-6669.Ray--
--- Original Message -----From: nobler 

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 1:11 PMSubject: Re: Pictures of original
classic rods

Does anyone know who made Sport King cane rods ? I've just re-glued
asection to a fly/casting combo rod, and after stripping it, I wassurprisedto
find serrated ferrules. Although drawn, they are better quality thenIfirst
thought, and the cane is really pretty decent. This is not aMontaguemade
rod.

GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Robert Venneri" 

Cc: ; "RODMAKERS" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re:
Pictures of original classic rods

Brian D. Creek wrote:

Ralph -I guess I have unlimited storage space at my Crosswinds site.  Iknow
Jerry had some difficulty there, but at least we can use it togetthe format
developed, page set-up, and and running.  If it becomesproblematic we can
move.  I'll spend some time tonight coming upwithwhat I'd like to see, and
submit this to the pack for group rendingandchewing.  ;^)

BrianI think this is a great idea too. I would like to make some clasicreelseats
if any one has pics of some nice ones.

Best regardsbob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties Ny 12477914 246
5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan  9 10:32:42 2000

Subject: Goldenrods

I was just looking at the web site for JW Fly rods who advertises a flyrod with
solid gold ferrules, reelseat bands and tip top for $5000 andit was proudly
announced as the most expensive fly rod on the market.I only hope the trout
appreciate the hard work that rodmakers put in ontheir behalf!

Terry

from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jan  9 11:00:50 2000

Subject: Settings for lanning forms

Hi,

When setting the planning forms how much do you add to account

Paul

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan  9 11:08:53 2000