Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:08:01 +0800 Subject: Re: Goldenrods I worked in a mountaineering shop for a while and a guy called KimCarriganwho was at that time one of the best rockclimbers anywhere used to sellMammut brand rope by telling people they are the most expensive ropesyoucan buy in Australia. He sold a lot of Mammut ropes. My best sales pitch was when I'd sell plastic mtneering boots and convincethe guy he needed aveolit liners rather than the felt ones standard ( a fewyears back this). The aveloite liners were $200 and everybody alwaysbaulked at the price so I kept a hacksaw under the counter and always said"at $200 that's $10 a toe. Which ones would you be happyest loosing?" Itworked best if you waved the hacksaw under their noses at the time. Nevermissed a sale on aveolite liners. These same people who you had to use these tequniques to get to buy theright boots and liners would without hesitation buy the most outravouslycurved ( and so sexy) ice axes and hammers in the shop without evenaskingthe price.Grivel should have used platinum for the cutting edges, they'd have sold alot more. Wouldn't matter that the edge would be much good, they'd lookterriffic in the summit shots. Tony At 11:36 AM 1/9/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:I was just looking at the web site for JW Fly rods who advertises a flyrod with solid gold ferrules, reelseat bands and tip top for $5000 andit was proudly announced as the most expensive fly rod on the market.I only hope the trout appreciate the hard work that rodmakers put in ontheir behalf! Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan 9 11:22:03 2000 Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:21:41 +0800 Subject: Re: Goldenrods Sorry, obviously that's $20 per toe. My mind was a trip I'm planing toTasmania where they aren't always made the same as most people. Hearing"Dueling Banjos" filtering through the trees everywhere you go there keepsyou on the ball ;-) Tony the guy he needed aveolit liners rather than the felt ones standard ( a fewyears back this). The aveloite liners were $200 and everybody alwaysbaulked at the price so I kept a hacksaw under the counter and alwayssaid"at $200 that's $10 a toe. Which ones would you be happyest loosing?" Itworked best if you waved the hacksaw under their noses at the time.Nevermissed a sale on aveolite liners. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 9 11:56:13 2000 Subject: Re: Goldenrods I was just looking at the web site for JW Fly rods who advertises a fly rod with solid gold ferrules, reelseat bands and tip top for $5000 and it was proudly announced as the most expensive fly rod on the market. I only hope the trout appreciate the hard work that rodmakers put in on their behalf! No way is that is expensive ! Consider, many of the older cane IS valuedhigher than that. Not fished with it, but wiggled it a tad. When it getsabove $5K in value, I revert to the "it might break" stage. Don't knowabout the rich folk out there, but would figure it this way, they have somuch money, they have to keep spending it on something. I don't begrudgethem that, *I* spend up to my limit :-) suecolorado from saweiss@flash.net Sun Jan 9 11:57:40 2000 Subject: Re: Goldenrods Terry,I'm sure the trout appreciate being caught on one of our rods rather thanona willow stick and a worm.Steve I was just looking at the web site for JW Fly rods who advertises a flyrod with solid gold ferrules, reelseat bands and tip top for $5000 andit was proudly announced as the most expensive fly rod on the market.I only hope the trout appreciate the hard work that rodmakers put in ontheir behalf! Terry from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 9 12:01:50 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Paul:I take enamel off before final planing with the LN Scraper. I then hit it gently with 400 grit wet/dry paper to even out any scraping bites, but a razor sharp scraper will work really well. On my first rod, I did not take the enamel off until after gluing and I feel it added to the problem with that rod having slightly off flats. from now on I am scraping before final planing. Perfectly flat strips on all 3 sides fit best into the planing form. This gives me better splines after final planing.I am also very careful; to wipe off excess glue after binding so that I don't have to go nuts to get it off and then get into the power fibers. This is easy to do when you have tons of glue left on the blank.Let's see what the experts have to say.Bob At 08:59 AM 1/9/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi, When setting the planning forms how much do you add to account Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 9 12:19:18 2000 Subject: original hardware on old cane The recent thread on photographing and documenting cane on a website isinteresting to me, as I've said. In part because I will have and will bebuying lesser-known cane I suppose for several years. No set aside funds Just recently purchased a little older 4 wt cane. I already own a 3 wtbuilt by same maker. In dealing with the former owner of the 4wt, he'thought' the cane had the original hardware on it. That WAS one of myinterests when inquiring about it. Although to be honest, the taper/actionis what I was really after. Yesterday I was at one of my local flyshops when cane collector came in. Ihappened to have the 4 wt cane in question with me. He had had some ofthe same rodmaker's work himself, so when he took look at my rod, heimmediately pronounced that the reel seat was not the original. Guides,wrapping, ferrule, etc. were, but not the reelseat. Had I known what the original rod maker's work was on this rod, andfurtherqueried the seller, I would have still bought the rod. After all, it WASthe taper/action I was after. But it would be nice to know what theoriginal rodmaker had built. and back to the original point, would havebeen good had I a source or two to access to see what WAS the originalwork. Consider this, most of you that ARE contemporary cane rodmakers ? Your'work' will be scrutinized some 20-30 years from now, people like mewondering, " ...mmm is this the original hardware and reel seat ? " *VBG* suecolorado from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 9 12:43:00 2000 Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:42:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Here's how I have been doing it so far: add .020"- .030" on tip and buttstrip tapers when initially planing then reset your forms to theprescribed taper, set the strips in enamel up and sand the enamel (Ileave just a bit). Then take a couple of passes on each side with fineset plane or scraper to bring it down to its final dimensions.There arelots of other ways but this seems to work for me, Shawn Paul Goodwin wrote: Hi, When setting the planning forms how much do you add to account Paul from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Jan 9 12:43:37 2000 Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods boundary="=====================_947461396==_" --=====================_947461396==_ At 11:15 AM 1/9/2000 -0500, Ed Riddle wrote: Doug: 0000,0000,8080Michael Sinclair, in his "BambooRodRestoration Handbook" page 29, has a one-page Rod Log that seems tocoverwhat you're saying. I don't have the h'ware to show it, and would needto get written permission from Centennial Publications anyway. Ed 0000,0000,8080Arial-----OriginalMessage----- ArialDouglasP. Easton dpeaston@wzrd.com> piscator@crosswinds.netpiscator@crosswinds.net>;jourdoktorn@chello.sejourdoktorn@chello.se>; RODMAKERSrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods At 08:41 PM 1/8/2000 -0500, Brian D. Creekwrote: Great idea! It seems to me that if we go to the trouble to make highinformation content photos we should also include some documentation ofthe rod. Sometimes even the best photos do not tell the whole story. Mywife has been involved in documenting antique quilts. There is usualy astory behind every one of them. Also there other crticaly important picesof info that do not show. Perhaps a standar documentation form should beincluded for each rod. JMHO 0000,0000,8080 from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 14:52:40 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:43:31 -0600 Subject: Re: original hardware on old cane An excellent point ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: original hardware on old cane The recent thread on photographing and documenting cane on a website isinteresting to me, as I've said. In part because I will have and will bebuying lesser-known cane I suppose for several years. No set asidefunds Just recently purchased a little older 4 wt cane. I already own a 3 wtbuilt by same maker. In dealing with the former owner of the 4wt, he'thought' the cane had the original hardware on it. That WAS one of myinterests when inquiring about it. Although to be honest, thetaper/actionis what I was really after. Yesterday I was at one of my local flyshops when cane collector came in.Ihappened to have the 4 wt cane in question with me. He had had some ofthe same rodmaker's work himself, so when he took look at my rod, heimmediately pronounced that the reel seat was not the original. Guides,wrapping, ferrule, etc. were, but not the reelseat. Had I known what the original rod maker's work was on this rod, andfurtherqueried the seller, I would have still bought the rod. After all, it WASthe taper/action I was after. But it would be nice to know what theoriginal rodmaker had built. and back to the original point, would havebeen good had I a source or two to access to see what WAS the originalwork. Consider this, most of you that ARE contemporary cane rodmakers ? Your'work' will be scrutinized some 20-30 years from now, people like mewondering, " ...mmm is this the original hardware and reel seat ? "*VBG* suecolorado from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 14:55:35 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:46:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just leveling thenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most all theenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Paul:I take enamel off before final planing with the LN Scraper. I then hit itgently with 400 grit wet/dry paper to even out any scraping bites, but arazor sharp scraper will work really well. On my first rod, I did not takethe enamel off until after gluing and I feel it added to the problem withthat rod having slightly off flats. from now on I am scraping before finalplaning. Perfectly flat strips on all 3 sides fit best into the planingform. This gives me better splines after final planing.I am also very careful; to wipe off excess glue after binding so that Idon't have to go nuts to get it off and then get into the power fibers.This is easy to do when you have tons of glue left on the blank.Let's see what the experts have to say.Bob At 08:59 AM 1/9/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi, When setting the planning forms how much do you add to account Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from cphisey@neca.com Sun Jan 9 16:09:28 2000 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing Here's what I've got on it "A.J.Thramer" on 05/06/98 12:05:08 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: 4'4" Guide Spacing A bit of housecleaning today.... The guide spacing for the 4'4" taper from a couple of months ago 4.00" 1/08.25" 1/013.50" #120.00" #228.00" Strip Guide A.J.Thramer from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 9 17:31:06 2000 Sun, 9 Jan 2000 15:30:58 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just leveling thenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most all theenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives it agreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name for it, andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. It is alittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers most oftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, and itescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part of thebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to remove noneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamel thereisremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heat treating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Still othersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel. Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of the powerfibers from.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel before gluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for its laterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that I misunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 17:45:40 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:46:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions ! Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives it agreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name for it,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. It isalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers most oftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, and itescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part of thebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heat treating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Still othersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel. Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of the powerfibers isfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel before gluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for its laterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 9 17:48:02 2000 Sun, 9 Jan 2000 15:47:54 -0800 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions ! Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 Maybe we remove it because the fibers underneath have the real beautyand depth! Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 9 18:27:16 2000 Subject: Re: original hardware on old cane sue,The idea of rods being scrutinized in 20 or 30 years time seem a littlepretentious.I thought we were making fishing poles here, not works of art. Any dummycanbuild a cane fly rod (uncle?), with the help of one of the many books outthere.A rod can knocked out in a couple of weeks once the equipment has beenacquiredthat could in theory cast just as well as any rod.When folk talk of rods having some sort of value other than being just nicelooking tools, I feel uncomfortable. I think that any rodmaker who suggesttocustomers that their products will appreciate as a collectible isdishonest.Just make what you think a good flyrod should be guys and forget abouttherest.Terry sue kreutzer wrote: The recent thread on photographing and documenting cane on a website isinteresting to me, as I've said. In part because I will have and will bebuying lesser-known cane I suppose for several years. No set asidefunds Just recently purchased a little older 4 wt cane. I already own a 3 wtbuilt by same maker. In dealing with the former owner of the 4wt, he'thought' the cane had the original hardware on it. That WAS one of myinterests when inquiring about it. Although to be honest, thetaper/actionis what I was really after. Yesterday I was at one of my local flyshops when cane collector came in.Ihappened to have the 4 wt cane in question with me. He had had some ofthe same rodmaker's work himself, so when he took look at my rod, heimmediately pronounced that the reel seat was not the original. Guides,wrapping, ferrule, etc. were, but not the reelseat. Had I known what the original rod maker's work was on this rod, andfurtherqueried the seller, I would have still bought the rod. After all, it WASthe taper/action I was after. But it would be nice to know what theoriginal rodmaker had built. and back to the original point, would have>been good had I a source or two to access to see what WAS the originalwork. Consider this, most of you that ARE contemporary cane rodmakers ? Your'work' will be scrutinized some 20-30 years from now, people like mewondering, " ...mmm is this the original hardware and reel seat ? " *VBG* suecolorado from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 9 18:34:25 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:32:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, in growth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to be there.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to "scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removing theenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a couple ofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depth ofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions ! Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives it agreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name for it,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. It isalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part of thebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heat treating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel. Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers isfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for its laterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan 9 18:50:24 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AC9BDC702A6; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 19:49:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. Yeah, but it'd look like your cherry bedroom set would if they left thebark on the dresser drawers *G*Art from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jan 9 19:04:50 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: RE: Settings for lanning forms There's a third reason to remove the enamel. For those of us whoimpregnatetheir rods instead of varnishing them, removing the enamel helps the caneabsorb the solution. Richard George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... Firstis to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a roundedappearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 19:48:55 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:39:45 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms O.K. such a small amount I can understand. It just sounded like allot more.Not that I know that much or anything, but I've understood about the cane'sstructure a long tome, but I had not seen, nor heard this scraping of theenamel discussed. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, in growth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to be there.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to"scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removingtheenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a coupleofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depth ofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions !Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly givesthemprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives itagreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name forit,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. Itisalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part ofthebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heattreating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel.Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers removedisfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for itslaterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from miler257@gateway.net Sun Jan 9 20:27:33 2000 Subject: truncated ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680 New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if anyone =can tell me their experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing =stories about broken sections because the shorter ferrules are attached =to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought standard size ferrules = welcome. Ed Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680 New question. I'm planning a three= I'm wondering if anyone can tell me their experience with truncated = I'm hearing stories about broken sections because the shorter ferrules = attached to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought standard size = Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Jan 9 20:28:15 2000 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I have an old rod that was finished with the enamel left on the outersurfaces.The outer surface has that "Round" look between each strip. The varnishflakesoff real easy, it did not bond with the enamel surface. This rod might ofbeenmade in someone's home workshop many years ago. It is real rough and lotsofglue lines. Getting back to the original question. I don't think the varnishwill hold up applied over the enamel.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 9 20:39:14 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:39:09 -0800 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods Ralph There is plenty of room on the Rodmakers Site now. I can easily buildnewpages to go with the rod tapers to attach pictures of the rod. I also havedigital cameraand scanner if needed. I can put both low resolution and high resolutionpictures on thepage. I have plenty of bandwidth on my cable modem so large files are nota problem ifsomebody takes pictures or scans one and sends to me. I will format andpost it. Putting it on Rodmakers with the tapers will keep everything in oneplace. Chris On Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:53:05 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote: Who will we get to archive them????????????????????????Ralph from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan 9 20:39:46 2000 Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:39:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I've found when gluing scarfs glue wont hold on the enamel, you notice thiswhen you dress the scarf. Tony At 07:31 PM 1/9/00 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote:I have an old rod that was finished with the enamel left on the outersurfaces.The outer surface has that "Round" look between each strip. The varnishflakesoff real easy, it did not bond with the enamel surface. This rod might ofbeenmade in someone's home workshop many years ago. It is real rough andlots ofglue lines. Getting back to the original question. I don't think the varnishwill hold up applied over the enamel.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 9 20:41:10 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 20:38:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,You are right that some rods do not have the enamel scraped or sandedoff of them. I refinished (not restored) a Union Hardware rod for agentleman a couple of years ago, that had the enamel still on it except ofcourse at the nodes. Scraped it off and it was a beautiful little rod...Cast like a broomstick, but pretty. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms O.K. such a small amount I can understand. It just sounded like allot more.Not that I know that much or anything, but I've understood about thecane'sstructure a long tome, but I had not seen, nor heard this scraping of theenamel discussed. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 6:32 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is toinsurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, ingrowth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to bethere.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to"scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removingtheenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a coupleofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depthofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions !Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamelisremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly givesthemprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond justlevelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have mostalltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which givesitagreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name forit,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. Itisalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers,anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part ofthebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus theenamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at alaterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heattreating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove theenamel.Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers removedisfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for itslaterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 9 21:25:03 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:22:47 -0600 Subject: Book!!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0 Anyone who doesn't have one... The Garrison/Carmichael book, A Masters =Guide..etc... There is one on ebay up for auction right now. It is =item # 233611447. Just to keep record straight, it isn't me that has it =listed, and don't know the person who does. Just thought if someone was =looking for a copy, you might get this one reasonable. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0 Anyone who doesn't have one... The Garrison/Carmichael book, A = looking for a copy, you might get this one reasonable. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 10 05:27:28 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA2A1AE50126; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 05:53:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods Chris,Since I got this new scanner, I'm dangerous. I've been scanning in ads makers(Thomas, Edwards, Granger, etc.) from magazines from the 30's-60's.These can be highlyinformative. Do you want these on rodmakers?Best regards,Reed Chris Bogart wrote: Ralph There is plenty of room on the Rodmakers Site now. I can easilybuild newpages to go with the rod tapers to attach pictures of the rod. I also havedigitalcameraand scanner if needed. I can put both low resolution and high resolutionpictures onthepage. I have plenty of bandwidth on my cable modem so large files arenot a problem ifsomebody takes pictures or scans one and sends to me. I will format andpost it. Putting it on Rodmakers with the tapers will keep everything in oneplace. Chris On Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:53:05 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote: Who will we get to archive them????????????????????????Ralph Chris Bogart wrote: Ralph There is plenty of room on the Rodmakers Site now. I can easilybuild newpages to go with the rod tapers to attach pictures of the rod. I also havedigitalcamera and scanner if needed. I can put both low resolution and high resolutionpictures onthepage. I have plenty of bandwidth on my cable modem so large files arenot a problem ifsomebody takes pictures or scans one and sends to me. I will format andpost it. Putting it on Rodmakers with the tapers will keep everything inone place. Chris On Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:53:05 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote: Who will we get to archive them????????????????????????Ralph from harry37@epix.net Mon Jan 10 07:20:09 2000 IAA03737; Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods Ralph--Nice way to do it. This is something everyone on the list who owns orhas access to a digital camera or a scanner can help with. Suggestion-- Someone with sufficient web savvy and foresight should develop photo(which shots) and format (.jpg, .tiff, etc)specifications so that anyonecan contribute. I know enough about the subject to see a potentialproblem unless a standard is created, but unfortunately not enough aboutthe subject to suggest technical specs. Great idea Brian! Greg Ralph W Moon wrote: I was just playing but take a look athttp://www.MyClassicRods.eboard.com Ralph from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 10 07:43:41 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:34:28 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms So much depends on the grade of the culm that was started with. I havequitea few older rods, from at least 50 years ago. Some have most all theenamelleft on, some do not. Two in particular show the importance of having canewith more power fibers. These rods are mostly with all of the enamel, yetthe node areas are very rough and porous. The condition indicates to memorethan just poor or sloppy work ! Interestingly, it took a very heavy coating of the Citristrip, to get theold varnish off. One old butt section, which is all that I have, has a swelled butt at thegrip, and I must assume it was an 8' 3 - pc. rod, for perhaps a 4 or 5 wt.,and a decidedly "dry fly" action. At first I thought it might be Calcuttacane, as it is very blonde, with dark burned marks sporadically along theenamel. The node areas are not porous however, which indicates to me,thiswas from better cane. Since we are dealing with "Nature's product", we are always going to havevariation in quality of the "product", no matter how good or talented thecraftsman ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, in growth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to be there.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to"scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removingtheenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a coupleofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depth ofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions !Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly givesthemprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives itagreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name forit,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. Itisalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part ofthebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heattreating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel.Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers removedisfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for itslaterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Jan 10 07:44:59 2000 Subject: Re: Following the grain I seriously doubt that one does any significant "realignment" of fiberssimply by straightening the nodes--nodal anatomy is far more complexthanthat. Perhaps I misunderstand, but straightening the nodes for the mostpart is to permit accurate planing. Indeed, I am considering taking on a project to look at nodal anatomy andfiber bundle arrangement in bamboo by microtoming 6- 8 micrometer thinsections both in longitudinal and transverse section. These will then bemade into microscope slides, stained and photographed at variousmagnifications. among the things I want to look at:1. size and thickness of fiber walls across a transverse section. Ratio offibers to parenchyma (pith) cells from epidermis to center. 2. Thickness of cuticle and epidermis to see just how much CAN be sandedoff the outside without destroying some of the outermost fibers.3. nodal anatomy--how many and in what manner fibers "pass through" thenode.among others that I am certain will come up. Unfortunately, this would be easier to do with '"green" bamboo consistingof living cells than with dried bamboo due to getting infiltration ofparaffin into the cells (to you folks this is analogous to a type ofimpregnation).J. Snider At 04:03 PM 01/07/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:As I understand it, the wandering of the fibers is not a worry, providingeach one has the node deformities straightened. This brings all back intogeneral alignment, so that when planed, a minimum of fibers are cutacrossthe "grain". Someone correct this, if I'm in error. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Snider" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI readily admit it. As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW far do they wander? Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of aninch?Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then planed down tofinal, might not you plane away all of those wandering fibers? Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and observe how, over a several inch length section, the attached fibersforming a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob, I don't know how much time might be saved if any. I was thinking interms ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splitsataslow pace. The need to straighten sweeps would still be there. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM: Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting,andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off thebandsaw. I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it sojustclick on it and it'll give you the pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg andyou'llseethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, very fastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most severesweep I have seen at a node). If you were to index, somehow, so thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten the strip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down thepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing straight throughthissection would have definitely made a number of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. If youindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or timeatall. Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftryingto "follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjustsplitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out of the same culm. The only difference betweenthisand the only sawn strips I have ever seen is that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers and the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just confused as towhyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time andtrouble tofollow the grain. Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying to cutalongthegrain. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain I see what you're saying. However, are sawn strips as straight as yousayonce they are separated from the main body? Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in half, and thus the grain is followedtothat point as I said previously, or if it were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up to that point. Sawing3/16"strips away from a previous line of split would be following thegrain.Ithink the significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmoredue to sawing from the start and not doing the initial splitting to the twist in the culm and then following the split line. Just myopinion. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM: Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually, in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain ofthecane than sawing does. When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by 2, 3 or 4 fiber's width. Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it, following the general grain of the bamboo.Just notstraightened. When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,itwas close to an inch from a line from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but nontheless, generally followingthegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. Sure, it is perfectly straight,oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been the drastic sweeps inthestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip. In somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not havebutvery few continuous fibers even from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibersnotonly from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even possible that, in some extremecases,sawing strips could eliminate continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes. Splitting will not do this. With splitting, for thegreatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of fibers from node to node. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to handsplit aculm. But....... aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do. When people think ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior forcontinuityof grain. Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternatingpressureetc. We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to sawtofinish the process and get very nice square strips. I know "we" coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting asifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me. Sawing wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant. Chris from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 10 07:45:25 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:36:17 -0600 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320 Personally, I think you got the correct ferrules. I'd opt for strength, =and reliability, over a small weight saving ! GMA Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:31 PMSubject: truncated ferrules New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if =anyone can tell me their experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing =stories about broken sections because the shorter ferrules are attached =to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought standard size ferrules = welcome. Ed Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320 Personally, I think you got the correct = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 = PMSubject: truncated =ferrules New question. I'm planning athree = and I'm wondering if anyone can tell me their experience with = ferrules. I'm hearing stories about broken sections because the = ferrules are attached to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought = size ferrules for the 3 piece travel rod that I need for a trip out = Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan 10 09:14:29 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:12:11 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Following the grain Jerry,As rodmakers, our perception, and experience with nodes is that thefibers from one section to the other sort of "weave" together there. Whensplitting the culm, the split will generally jump or sweep to one side andfollow the "realignment" of the fibers... in other words... fibers A1, B1and C1 from section one, interlace in a way with fibers A2, B2, and C2 insection two... so there is a continuity of sorts. If you don't straightenthis node, then when you plane across it, the ends of the fibers in the nextsection that are NOT in line with the fibers from the previous section,tendto lift, or tear out instead of being cut. The straighter the node, themore inline the interlaced fibers and the lower the probability of tear outat the node.Not really a technical view, but like I said, from a rodmakersstandpoint, that is my experience. Thought that might help in aninterpretation of your findings as they relate to making fly rods. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Following the grain I seriously doubt that one does any significant "realignment" of fiberssimply by straightening the nodes--nodal anatomy is far more complexthanthat. Perhaps I misunderstand, but straightening the nodes for the mostpart is to permit accurate planing.Indeed, I am considering taking on a project to look at nodal anatomy andfiber bundle arrangement in bamboo by microtoming 6- 8 micrometer thinsections both in longitudinal and transverse section. These will then bemade into microscope slides, stained and photographed at variousmagnifications. among the things I want to look at:1. size and thickness of fiber walls across a transverse section. Ratio offibers to parenchyma (pith) cells from epidermis to center.2. Thickness of cuticle and epidermis to see just how much CAN besandedoff the outside without destroying some of the outermost fibers.3. nodal anatomy--how many and in what manner fibers "pass through"thenode.among others that I am certain will come up.Unfortunately, this would be easier to do with '"green" bamboo consistingof living cells than with dried bamboo due to getting infiltration ofparaffin into the cells (to you folks this is analogous to a type ofimpregnation).J. Snider At 04:03 PM 01/07/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:As I understand it, the wandering of the fibers is not a worry, providingeach one has the node deformities straightened. This brings all back intogeneral alignment, so that when planed, a minimum of fibers are cutacrossthe "grain". Someone correct this, if I'm in error. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Snider" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI readily admit it. As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW far do they wander? Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of aninch?Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then planed downtofinal, might not you plane away all of those wandering fibers? Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and observe how, over a several inch length section, the attachedfibersforming a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob, I don't know how much time might be saved if any. I was thinking interms ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splitsataslow pace. The need to straighten sweeps would still be there. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM: Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting,andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off thebandsaw. I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it sojustclick on it and it'll give you the pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg andyou'llseethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, veryfastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the mostseveresweep I have seen at a node). If you were to index, somehow, so thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten thestrip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down thepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing straight throughthissection would have definitely made a number of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. Ifyouindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or timeatall. Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftryingto "follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjustsplitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out of the same culm. The only difference betweenthisand the only sawn strips I have ever seen is that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers and the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just confused as towhyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time andtrouble tofollow the grain. Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying to cutalongthegrain. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain I see what you're saying. However, are sawn strips as straight asyousayonce they are separated from the main body? Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in half, and thus the grain isfollowedtothat point as I said previously, or if it were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up to that point. Sawing3/16"strips away from a previous line of split would be following thegrain.Ithink the significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rodswasmoredue to sawing from the start and not doing the initial splitting to the twist in the culm and then following the split line. Just myopinion. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM: Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, whenastrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the stripbybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually, in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain ofthecane than sawing does. When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by 2, 3 or 4 fiber's width. Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look down it and you can plainly see that the striphassweeps and bends in it, following the general grain of the bamboo.Just>>> >>for curiosity's sake, I laid a strip on the bench, that was split,butnotstraightened. When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,itwas close to an inch from a line from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but nontheless, generally followingthegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. Sure, it is perfectly straight,oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been the drastic sweeps inthestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip. In somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not havebutvery few continuous fibers even from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibersnotonly from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even possible that, in some extremecases,sawing strips could eliminate continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes. Splitting will not do this. With splitting, for thegreatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of fibers from node to node. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to handsplit aculm. But....... aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do. When people think ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior forcontinuityof grain. Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it togo(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternatingpressureetc. We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto sawtofinish the process and get very nice square strips. I know "we"coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splittingasifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me. Sawingwouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant. Chris from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jan 10 09:42:29 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Pictures of original classic rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu That's an important point... photos take up a lot os space, especially bigones... In my website, I had a photo gallery area setup for rod collectorsto post their own photos at will without requiring the webmaster (me) todoanything... It did require the user to upload the pics to a web host or totheir own web site and it did require them to know how to properly usethehtml coding... the disadvantage was that the pics would not be centrallylocated and a permanent archive would not be preserved. I closed it aboutaweek ago for lack of interest... I'm glad to see so many others taking upthe challenge. If someone comes up with a site that could be a long term depository, itseems to me that it should have a searchable database and that thesubmitting person should take the time and describe in detail the rod andit's history. I'm in the process of building a new website, but it probably won't beonline for a couple of months... I haven't signed with a web host yet, butthe 1st place contender offers 100mb/$24.95 per month. A site that willstore hundreds or thousands of high quality digital pics needs to be a lotbigger than 100 mg, I suspect... Anybody have any web hosts they canrecommend to me OFF LIST? Planning to add ecommerce/c cards... Thanks. I'm concerned about the free sites as well... most are 6mths or 1 year oldand will they be around in 2-5-10 years... if they shut down shop, it'sunlikely they will give enough advance warning to archive all the picsbefore close... Perhaps the AFFM might be willing to commit to a long termproject such as this... An alternative might be to develop a simple searchable database with picsoncd-rom. Perhaps a MS Access database with photos and the database couldbepurchased for a nominal cost to cover shipping/duplication/databasemaintenence like shareware. Or it could even be a commercial product, butthe success would depend on the participation of the collector community. The advantages is that it would be MUCH faster, on media that has a 50yearlife, searchable, no worries about the web site disappearing or running outof web space. "Marty Keane photos" - I chatted with him about a week or two ago abouthispics... If I recall, he told me he uses a medium format camera of Germanmanufacture and it was at least a 4"X5" negative. Also with a bellows typecamera for precision depth of field control... his picture quality goes wellbeyond the quality available from most if not all digital cameras... Mostpics that fit a normal computer monitor with the full length photo justdon't have the resolution to be of too much value, at least for me... itdoes tell me that all the sections are either full length or damaged and ifthere is a set in the sections... If you do have camera with high resolution2megapixel+, the .jpeg photo files will be huge and takes lots of diskspace, VERY slow to load so that's a couple drawbacks that I see... Just my two cents... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods All,Are these sites likely to stay up or are they temporary by nature?Thereason I'm asking is that I'm transferring the messages with the URLs intoa "Go here to find picture" mailbox so I don't have to download all thosefiles to my hard-drive. Should I grab the pictures while I can and transferthem to floppies or can I reasonably expect to return to your sites andfind them when I need them?TIA,Art At 02:19 AM 01/09/2000 +0100, jan nystråm wrote:Hi folks, I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier and did post acouple of rods from my collection just to see how it looked. I triedto choose pictures where you can see details of interest.Take a look andjudge. Here it is:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com Best,Jan Nystrom from jshane@nature.snr.uvm.edu Mon Jan 10 09:43:50 2000 Subject: unsubscribing help I am sorry for the waste of BW, but I need to unsubscribe for a while, andI have lost instructions HOW.. can someone please tell me? thanks j. ==============================================================================I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it==============================================================================John Shane (802) 656- 2907University of Vermont jshane@nature.snr.uvm.eduForestry Department FAX -- (802)656-8683Burlington, Vt. 05405 from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Mon Jan 10 10:19:39 2000 Subject: Leonard 38H taper Here's the taper taken from Harry Darbee's 38H.0 = .064, 5 = .078, 10 = .094, 15 = .110, 20 = .124, 25 = .139, 30 = .147,35 = .159, 40 = .168, 45 = .183, 50 = .198, 55 = .207, 60 = .215, 65 = .229, 70 = .238, slightswell starts 73 = .255, 74 = .265, 75 = .292 grip 5 thou was subtracted for varnish Guide spacing 5", 10 1/4, 15 3/4, 21 3/4, 28 1/8, 35, 42 7/8 (buttsupagainst female ferrule), 51, 59(stripper).. Best, Dennis from ernie2@pacbell.net Mon Jan 10 10:23:31 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: What would you make? Hi,I am a newly to rodmakers, but have thought about making a bamboo rodforseveral years. I think it would be 7' 6" for 4/5 weight line It would be atwo piece 5 sided rod with an up locking reel seat. I think that would bethe easiest for me to make. It will be used to fish for trout in streamsand small rivers. I would appreciate any thoughts you have about this andthe taper you would use.Ernie Harrison from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Jan 10 10:45:21 2000 Subject: Re: Following the grain Bob, I don't think we disagree at all!J. SniderAt 09:13 AM 01/10/2000 - 0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Jerry,As rodmakers, our perception, and experience with nodes is that thefibers from one section to the other sort of "weave" together there. Whensplitting the culm, the split will generally jump or sweep to one side andfollow the "realignment" of the fibers... in other words... fibers A1, B1and C1 from section one, interlace in a way with fibers A2, B2, and C2 insection two... so there is a continuity of sorts. If you don't straightenthis node, then when you plane across it, the ends of the fibers in thenextsection that are NOT in line with the fibers from the previous section,tendto lift, or tear out instead of being cut. The straighter the node, themore inline the interlaced fibers and the lower the probability of tear outat the node.Not really a technical view, but like I said, from a rodmakersstandpoint, that is my experience. Thought that might help in aninterpretation of your findings as they relate to making fly rods. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 8:17 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain I seriously doubt that one does any significant "realignment" of fiberssimply by straightening the nodes--nodal anatomy is far more complexthanthat. Perhaps I misunderstand, but straightening the nodes for the mostpart is to permit accurate planing.Indeed, I am considering taking on a project to look at nodal anatomy andfiber bundle arrangement in bamboo by microtoming 6- 8 micrometerthinsections both in longitudinal and transverse section. These will then bemade into microscope slides, stained and photographed at variousmagnifications. among the things I want to look at:1. size and thickness of fiber walls across a transverse section. Ratio offibers to parenchyma (pith) cells from epidermis to center.2. Thickness of cuticle and epidermis to see just how much CAN besandedoff the outside without destroying some of the outermost fibers.3. nodal anatomy--how many and in what manner fibers "pass through"thenode.among others that I am certain will come up.Unfortunately, this would be easier to do with '"green" bambooconsistingof living cells than with dried bamboo due to getting infiltration ofparaffin into the cells (to you folks this is analogous to a type ofimpregnation).J. Snider At 04:03 PM 01/07/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:As I understand it, the wandering of the fibers is not a worry, providingeach one has the node deformities straightened. This brings all backintogeneral alignment, so that when planed, a minimum of fibers are cutacrossthe "grain". Someone correct this, if I'm in error. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Snider" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing somethinghere,andI readily admit it. As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW far do they wander? Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of aninch?Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then planed downtofinal, might not you plane away all of those wandering fibers? Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and observe how, over a several inch length section, the attachedfibersforming a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob, I don't know how much time might be saved if any. I was thinking interms ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk thesplitsataslow pace. The need to straighten sweeps would still be there. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM: Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting,andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off thebandsaw. I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it sojustclick on it and it'll give you the pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg andyou'llseethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, veryfastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the mostseveresweep I have seen at a node). If you were to index, somehow, so thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten thestrip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut downthepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing straightthroughthissection would have definitely made a number of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. Ifyouindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or timeatall. Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftryingto "follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjustsplitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out of the same culm. The only differencebetweenthisand the only sawn strips I have ever seen is that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers and the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just confused as towhyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time andtrouble tofollow the grain. Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying to cutalongthegrain. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain I see what you're saying. However, are sawn strips as straight asyousayonce they are separated from the main body? Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in half, and thus the grain isfollowedtothat point as I said previously, or if it were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up to that point. Sawing3/16"strips away from a previous line of split would be following thegrain.Ithink the significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rodswasmoredue to sawing from the start and not doing the initial splitting to the twist in the culm and then following the split line. Just myopinion. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM: Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, whenastrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the stripbybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually, in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grainofthecane than sawing does. When you correct a split, many times youareonlycorrecting by 2, 3 or 4 fiber's width. Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look down it and you can plainly see that the striphassweeps and bends in it, following the general grain of the bamboo.Just notstraightened. When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,itwas close to an inch from a line from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but nontheless, generally followingthegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. Sure, it is perfectly straight,oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off of a sawn strip, youcanseethat it was sawn across what would have been the drastic sweepsin thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip. In somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might nothavebutvery few continuous fibers even from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the culmwasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibersnotonly from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even possible that, in some extremecases,sawing strips could eliminate continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes. Splitting will not do this. With splitting, for thegreatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of fibers from node to node. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how tohandsplit aculm. But....... aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do. When people think ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows thegrainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior forcontinuityof grain. Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it togo(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternatingpressureetc. We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto sawtofinish the process and get very nice square strips. I know "we"coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splittingasifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me. Sawingwouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant. Chris from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jan 10 10:59:23 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wustl.edu; Subject: RE: Pictures of original classic rods Brian, It would be very easy... you could make a deal with the AFFM (American FlyFishing Museum) in Vermont and photograph all their rods... about 1,200according to their estimates... I was fortunate/unfortunate to be allowedtogo upstairs to the look at the bulk of their collection... the unfortunatepart was I didn't have 6 months to look at every rod and I was extremelydehydrated from the experience from all my drooling... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods I'd like to volunteer to run around the world and take tohose picture.MaybeI can get a gov'ment grant. Just send your donations to "Send Brian to takethe Pictures." BrianRodMakers, I've been watching this thread with interest. This HAS been one of mywishes for some time. Being a 'customer', not yet a cane maker, I've beenslowly educating myself on cane, old and contemporary. It WOULD bedelightful to go to a site (or book), use the index and find images of canerods. There are more of you out there than you probably realize that AREcollectors, or know collectors. Without giving name, street address,cityof where the collections are housed, I suppose you all could get quite arepository of images built up over the next several years ! All a matterof first finding the webspace, then getting the word out, and handlingthelogistics of said endeavor *G*. When you are off and running and have posted the initial post to theRodMakers, asking for input, several of us will cross-post to theflyfishing website venues for you and get even more images ! Good luck ! Great idea. And certainly cheaper than someone flying aroundthe country and world to take firsthand snapshots *G* of the cane.Publishing a book would be expensive ! suecolorado from jmb@shentel.net Mon Jan 10 11:24:54 2000 Subject: unsubscribe Dear sirs: Please take me off your email list effectiv immediately. Thank you. Sincerely,John Blouinjmb@shentel.net from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 10 13:44:33 2000 Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:44:28 -0800 Subject: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from piscator@crosswinds.net Mon Jan 10 14:08:34 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: (no subject) Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 10 15:43:26 2000 Subject: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jan 10 16:16:54 2000 17:16:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Hi, The first thing you want to do is seal the ends of the logs to preventchecking. I'vedone this on Cherry and Apple with Titebond II. Forget having a sawmill cut it. As a rule they won't take anything fromsomeonesyard due to things that may be in the wood. I'ld take a chain saw and roughcutslabs that a bandsaw can manage. Using the Bandsaw cut billets that canbeturnedinto fillers. I got 300bd-ft of cherry and 150bd-ft of Apple when Hurricane Bob camethroughMA in 1991. I found someone with a ripsaw(tm) which is a portablebandsawpowered with a chainsaw head. I wish I could justify one of those. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan 10 16:17:03 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: lathe Hi all:If I go with a Sherline lathe, can I get away with the 4000, or do I want the 4000A package?I just want to turn stations, grips, and make reel seats and some bands for them. No ferrules, unless that is not as hard as I guessThanks in advance, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from thardy@foxinternet.net Mon Jan 10 17:34:55 2000 mailsite.foxinternet.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.5) with ESMTP idfor;Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:33:33 -0800 Subject: Snake guides Is anyone in the Northwest currently putting together alarge order for those new Snake brand guides? If so Iwould like to participateThanks,Tom Hardy. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 10 19:00:39 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:00:32 -0800 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: (no subject) Brian With the new host for Rodmakers we do not have to worry aboutstorage orspeed of access - it is on a brand new state-of-art hosting complex. Giventhat, lets seewhat we can do tobring it to its knees. If you and others are willing to help with the work and provide input,then I canprovide a filter for thedata, QC format, and upload to the site. It is putting the data together thatwill reallytake time. We canget that template done and provide to anyone who wants to contribute tothe effort. Onceunderwaywe can have the contribution template downloadable from the web site. I have high speed access to the internet so the size of files are not aproblem up the site regularly. The more people that help the better the product wewill have foreveryone's use. I think this with other material about "classic" and "not-so-classic"rods isimportantto capture while some of the information is still available. The same goeswith otherbits of rodmaking history - pictures of magazine ads, tools, makers, etc. It wouldbe great tohavethis encyclopedia of history readily available to everyone online. Thiswould be animportant newdirection to Rodmakers to follow since there is a lot of interest in thisarea. Plus asthey say,"a picture is worth a thousand words." I request that people send the best quality pictures possible - do nottry andedit or downsizethe pictures themselves - I have all the programs for image manipulation,imagereduction, and image compression that will store the best picture at the lowest file size. I can convert just about anyfile formatto a common standard forposting. Raw scanned files (tiff format) are just fine and I can go fromthere. So Brian send me a strawman template of what you had in mind andwe can go fromthere. I am sure Jerrycan find room for another Icon on the Main page for "Classic Rods andRodmaking Info" orsomething like that.Pages will flow from that. We can develop a main page for this area andbreak it downinto various categories of information. We can link pictures to tapers when appropriate. Questions? Comments? Chris On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:52:03 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jan 10 21:05:55 2000 Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:05:32 +0800 Subject: Re: (no subject) "RODMAKERS" ,"Jerry Foster" The other thing we could do is this:Everybody keeps their own pic on their own SP's server and the centralaccess point only has the links to everybody's sites. These links would beindexed for easy access but everybody just clicks on the links and go tothe actual site with the pics.This way everybody makes use of the free space they have and there is noneed for gazillions of megs of space in a central point. This is really themain advantage of the web because it unifies all these little bits of datarather than having to collect everything at one place. This would mean individuals would have to maintain the links at thecentralpoint or somebody does it after being alerted to new or altered links justlike any other home page. Tony At 08:01 PM 1/10/00 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote:Brian With the new host for Rodmakers we do not have to worry aboutstorage orspeed of access - it is on a brand new state-of-art hosting complex.Giventhat, lets see what we can do tobring it to its knees. If you and others are willing to help with the work and provide input,then I can provide a filter for thedata, QC format, and upload to the site. It is putting the data togetherthat will really take time. We canget that template done and provide to anyone who wants to contribute tothe effort. Once underwaywe can have the contribution template downloadable from the web site. I have high speed access to the internet so the size of files are not aproblem for me. I back up the site regularly. The more people that help the better the product wewill have for everyone's use. I think this with other material about "classic" and "not-so-classic"rods is importantto capture while some of the information is still available. The samegoeswith other bits of rodmaking history - pictures of magazine ads, tools, makers, etc. Itwouldbe great to havethis encyclopedia of history readily available to everyone online. Thiswould be an important newdirection to Rodmakers to follow since there is a lot of interest in thisarea. Plus as they say,"a picture is worth a thousand words." I request that people send the best quality pictures possible - do nottry and edit or downsizethe pictures themselves - I have all the programs for imagemanipulation,image reduction, and image compression that will store the best picture at the lowest file size. I can convert just aboutany file format to a common standard forposting. Raw scanned files (tiff format) are just fine and I can go fromthere. So Brian send me a strawman template of what you had in mind andwe cango from there. I am sure Jerrycan find room for another Icon on the Main page for "Classic Rods andRodmaking Info" or something like that.Pages will flow from that. We can develop a main page for this area andbreak it down into various categories of information. We can link pictures to tapers when appropriate. Questions? Comments? Chris On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:52:03 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jan 10 21:09:03 2000 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers In a message dated 01/10/2000 4:45:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Harry,I cut a lot of wood for reel seats myself. You can eithercut it into "slabs" or into approx. 1x1x5 pieces. If you cut itinto slabs, you must wax the end grain, to keep it from splitting,as it dries out. If you cut it into reel seat size pieces, I usuallywax the whole piece. I buy "canning" wax at the grocery store.It is wax in small slabs around 1x3x5 in approx. I hold the waxwith a pair of pliers and heat it with a propane torch. Let the waxgo all over the wood. Leave a small amount without wax, not onthe end grain side, but on one of the other sides. This will allowthe wood to dry very slowly. I let it dry for six months to a year,before I use it. Dave L. from amcsmith@nlis.net Mon Jan 10 21:18:20 2000 0500 Subject: photo archives chris b,you and jerry rule !!!!chris smith from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 10 21:41:04 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:41:21 -0600 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: (no subject) This sounds really neat Chris ! I'll try sending a shot or two, and you letme know what they come in like. Having a variety of so many differentrods,all on one site, will make it really easy to build a volume of what reallyrare pieces look like. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: (no subject) Brian With the new host for Rodmakers we do not have to worry about storageorspeed of access - it is on a brand new state-of-art hosting complex.Giventhat, lets see what we can do tobring it to its knees. If you and others are willing to help with the work and provide input,then I can provide a filter for thedata, QC format, and upload to the site. It is putting the data togetherthat will really take time. We canget that template done and provide to anyone who wants to contribute tothe effort. Once underwaywe can have the contribution template downloadable from the web site. I have high speed access to the internet so the size of files are not aproblem for me. I backup the site regularly. The more people that help the better the productwewill have for everyone's use. I think this with other material about "classic" and "not-so-classic" rodsis importantto capture while some of the information is still available. The samegoeswith other bits ofrodmaking history - pictures of magazine ads, tools, makers, etc. Itwouldbe great to havethis encyclopedia of history readily available to everyone online. Thiswould be an important newdirection to Rodmakers to follow since there is a lot of interest in thisarea. Plus as they say,"a picture is worth a thousand words." I request that people send the best quality pictures possible - do not tryand edit or downsizethe pictures themselves - I have all the programs for imagemanipulation,image reduction, and image compression that willstore the best picture at the lowest file size. I can convert just aboutany file format to a common standard forposting. Raw scanned files (tiff format) are just fine and I can go fromthere. So Brian send me a strawman template of what you had in mind and wecan go from there. I am sure Jerrycan find room for another Icon on the Main page for "Classic Rods andRodmaking Info" or something like that.Pages will flow from that. We can develop a main page for this area andbreak it down into various categories ofinformation. We can link pictures to tapers when appropriate. Questions? Comments? Chris On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:52:03 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 10 21:56:11 2000 Subject: Swelled butt rods I heard that it is possible to make swelled butt rods in normal planingforms. Is this true? If so how does one go about this. What problems canyou expect . And ,does anyone have any appropriate tapers? T& T or anyothers would be nice! Shawn from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jan 11 00:14:39 2000 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers I pretty much agree with Dave's recommendations. When I wax the endgrain, Ipre-heat the wood a bit with my heat gun and dip the end grain into meltedwax in order to get a better seal. Some people paint the melted wax on tothe wood with an old cheap brush. If the wax looks white and flaky after ithardens than you have not gotten a good seal. The wax should looktranslucent. Be careful about melting paraffin, it becomes quiteflammablewhen hot. Better if you don't use an open flame when melting.Steve Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from chris@artistree.com Tue Jan 11 01:00:39 2000 [205.134.244.79] (may beforged)) Subject: [Fwd:renward rod 1000] Claus Jensen wrote: HELLO! My name is claus jensen from denmark,i had got an old splitcanebamboo rod with the name on (the renward rod 1000). do you have anyinformation on this rod,how old? where its from etc. best regardsclaus jensenmy email: cj.vraa@mail.tele.dk from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 11 01:09:52 2000 Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:09:31 +0800 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Also, keep the wood off a surface by placing it on "stickers" which in thiscase don't need to be any more than chopsticks. That way the piece willdryevenly all round and you'll have less warpage. Tony At 11:15 PM 1/10/00 -0700, Steven Weiss wrote:I pretty much agree with Dave's recommendations. When I wax the endgrain, Ipre-heat the wood a bit with my heat gun and dip the end grain intomeltedwax in order to get a better seal. Some people paint the melted wax on tothe wood with an old cheap brush. If the wax looks white and flaky afterithardens than you have not gotten a good seal. The wax should looktranslucent. Be careful about melting paraffin, it becomes quiteflammablewhen hot. Better if you don't use an open flame when melting.Steve Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Jan 11 06:28:46 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Stabilizing Wood Harry, Cut it into sections that are 50% longer than your finished product will be.Paint the ends with a good oil based product, date it, store it on its endand forget it. Six months to two years depending on species and moisturecontent. You could weigh the individual pieces if you wish to monitor theprocess. Another procedure that I had some success with when I was turning items,wasworking with green wood and not turning it to finished dimensions butleaving it maybe 10 to 15 percent larger. The process involved saving theshavings from the turning process and when you get the item to the statewhere you want to dry it, put it in a box encapsulated in the shavings. Letit dry in this manner and the shavings will slow the drying process enoughto keep the item stable. Any movement in the item will be corrected withthe turning to final dimensions. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 11 07:26:19 2000 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Thanks for all the replies, folks. Looks like I've got some good ideas.I've got one more question: The sections are approx 3 feet across, and 6-8inches thick. I just asked the tree cutters to give me a section of thetrunk from the crotch.Do you have any suggestions on exactly how to cut the wood intosectionsin order to maximize the good looking grain? Someone suggested having alocalfurniture maker do so. But local furniture makers around here use old milkcrates or buy their stuff at Walmart. North Louisiana is not a hotbed forfinewoodworking! Harry from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Jan 11 09:19:51 2000 Subject: Re: Stabilizing Wood Go to www.woodcraft.com, Use their search and enter Pentacryl.Works exactly like the description says it does, dries out greenwood 90% quicker, and lubricates your turning tools when youdo start working the wood. Good stuff!Darryl from harry37@epix.net Tue Jan 11 09:55:43 2000Received: from KAA03134 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers from my old candle making days, I recall that the best ans safest way toheat the parrafin was to use an old saucepan as a double-boiler in alarger saucepan full of boiling water. The parrafin's a relativelylow-temp wax, and you won't have to worry about lighting it up. Greg Steven Weiss wrote: I pretty much agree with Dave's recommendations. When I wax the endgrain, Ipre-heat the wood a bit with my heat gun and dip the end grain intomeltedwax in order to get a better seal. Some people paint the melted wax on tothe wood with an old cheap brush. If the wax looks white and flaky afterithardens than you have not gotten a good seal. The wax should looktranslucent. Be careful about melting paraffin, it becomes quiteflammablewhen hot. Better if you don't use an open flame when melting.Steve Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no end product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jan 11 10:32:08 2000 8:38:12 PST Subject: re: Swelled butt rods Hi Shawn, Many of the standard planing forms have bolts at 2 1/2" increments alongthe lower area of the butt side of the forms. This allows you to open thegroove more at this area because you have more bolts to stress the steel. So in a about a 5" range before the cork nose area of the strips you can flare itout as much as possible to get the largest diameter over the shortest distance possible without stripping the threads. That being said, I don't think you will be able to get the dramatic swell such as that on a T&T rod. The pictures I have seen of T&T's with this swell shows a rod that has a very quick increase over maybe a 1 1/2"-2" space right before the cork. I hadan early Montague Flipline rod with a dramatic swell like this, and since the T&T rods are made with the same equipment that the old Montague's weremade from (I think that's right), maybe it was the same machine or process? If you want this feature in your rods there are swelled butt forms beingmade that have the swell cut into the forms. Otherwise, the 2 1/2" boltincrement on standard forms will allow you to increase the butt diameter to a degree that may meet your definition of a swell. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- I heard that it is possible to make swelled butt rods in normal planingforms. Is this true? If so how does one go about this. What problems canyou expect . And ,does anyone have any appropriate tapers? T& T or anyothers would be nice! Shawn from jczimny@dol.net Tue Jan 11 14:54:55 2000 Subject: Re: Swelled butt rods It certainly was the same process. The mill has a cam arm that lowers thepattern John Z CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Hi Shawn, Many of the standard planing forms have bolts at 2 1/2" incrementsalong thelower area of the butt side of the forms. This allows you to open thegroovemore at this area because you have more bolts to stress the steel. So inaabout a 5" range before the cork nose area of the strips you can flare itoutas much as possible to get the largest diameter over the shortestdistancepossible without stripping the threads. That being said, I don't think youwill be able to get the dramatic swell such as that on a T&T rod. Thepictures I have seen of T&T's with this swell shows a rod that has a veryquick increase over maybe a 1 1/2"-2" space right before the cork. I hadanearly Montague Flipline rod with a dramatic swell like this, and sincetheT&T rods are made with the same equipment that the old Montague'swere made from (I think that's right), maybe it was the same machine or process? Ifyou want this feature in your rods there are swelled butt forms beingmadethat have the swell cut into the forms. Otherwise, the 2 1/2" boltincrementon standard forms will allow you to increase the butt diameter to adegreethat may meet your definition of a swell. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Shawn Pineo" , on 1/10/00 8:06 PM: I heard that it is possible to make swelled butt rods in normal planingforms. Is this true? If so how does one go about this. What problems canyou expect . And ,does anyone have any appropriate tapers? T& T or anyothers would be nice! Shawn from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 11 18:15:01 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:14:53 -0800 "sue kreutzer" Subject: Re: definition of 'classic rods' to be included ? Sue Trying to separate classic from contemporary is easy -are they alive or dead! Sounds kind of cold, but how else can youdo it? Now, there will be no value judgements on quality of work forthe former - just gathering information that may get and is getting lost inthe sands of time. Chris On Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:46:37 -0700, sue kreutzer wrote: good morning gentlemen, from colorado. I'm doing my best to follow the posts re the exciting project (make thatbehemoth project) that some of you are undertaking. I'm on the sidelinescheering you on. Critical IMNSHO to get the images somewhere, alongwiththe documentation, and even, as someone suggested, tools, workshopimages.Trust me on this one, Ackland's sarcasm notwithstanding (or was thathumor? *G*), YOU will be glad you did. Let me take that thought and ask a question that others have probablyasked, but I didn't see the answers. What is going to be the definition of what is classic and qualifies for thepage ? Age ? Anything 25 or 30 years and older ? I believe in theantique's fields, that IS the criteria. Then too, I could see aClassic and Contemporary section. Just thinking out loud.Personally think the RodM. homepage IS the place to locate your project.Eboard.com will be gone in a year, other folks websites may be too. Verychanging this Net. suecolorado from tragich23@juno.com Tue Jan 11 18:26:52 2000 "n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGN6dwlYzETpzQiDtkP8+jaVk1BmBElbqTg==" 19:26:44 EST Subject: varnish Anyone on the list know if McClosky varnish has a web site? Or P&l? TIAai from tragich23@juno.com Tue Jan 11 18:30:41 2000 "n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGN6dwlYzETpzSEZAd2ACcUOA7vuwS/32ew==" 19:30:33 EST Subject: agate strippers is there anyone on the list willing to give info on how to fabricateagate strippers? TIAai from tragich23@juno.com Tue Jan 11 19:11:14 2000 "n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGN6dwlYzETpzBDEW6p4oyqacfXk4zkZPpw==" 20:10:48 EST Subject: TEST SLOW TODAY? from sats@gte.net Tue Jan 11 20:27:04 2000 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if anyonecan tell metheir experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing stories about brokensectionsbecause the shorter ferrules are attached to a smaller length of cane.Therefore I boughtstandard size ferrules for the 3 piece travel rod that I need for a trip outwest. Allcomments welcome. Ed Miller. I don't believe that the amount of bamboo covered by the ferrules is theproblem. I'd guess they were too small or not fitted right. I've had a fewrods break at the ferrule and it was always the fact that I'd done a poorjob ofsize selection or application. I really believe truncated ferrules are better for three piece rods. Rememberthe area covered by a ferrule doesn't flex like the rest of the bamboo. Ithardly flexes at all. There for you're removing an extra two inches or soofflex from the rod if you use regular ferrules. You lose less flex with thetruncated ferrules. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jan 11 20:29:02 2000 Subject: test test from jourdoktorn@chello.se Wed Jan 12 00:32:30 2000 (InterMail v4.01.00 201-232-112) with ESMTP +0100 Subject: Test! Testing, am I heard or thrown out from the list? from rvenneri@ulster.net Wed Jan 12 04:00:40 2000 0500 Subject: test from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Jan 12 05:58:04 2000 EAA03483 Subject: setting planing forms Hi, When setting the planing forms how much do you add to account for theenamelthat will be taken off? Paul from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 12 07:53:10 2000 Subject: PHY Perfectionist With all these awesome photos floating around I was hoping someone hassome good ones of a Paul H. Young Perfectionist I could see before Ifinish my rod. Aoriginal, unrestored rod would be the ideal! ANYONE???? T.I.A, Shawn from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Jan 12 08:05:22 2000 GAA03807 ESMTP forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:05:06 -0800 (5.5.2448.0) is the list down or just slow Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jan 12 08:40:41 2000 0000 Subject: Photos I am still overwhelmed by the response to the rod photo idea. I amfirmly in favor, but need to do some thinking be back at you Chris etal. from jgm56@gateway.net Wed Jan 12 10:48:51 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840 test ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840 test ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840-- from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Wed Jan 12 12:08:08 2000 Subject: Test from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Wed Jan 12 12:11:00 2000 2000 10:10:56 PST Subject: test test__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from drossiter@uswest.net Wed Jan 12 16:16:54 2000 Subject: Dickerson taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700 I have considered building a rod to Dickerson's 8013 taper. However, I =noticed that the taper for this rod that is posted on the Rodmakers =website shows an increase of .026" from the 45" station to the 50" =station. (Diameter is reported as .189" at the 45" point, and .215" at =the 50" point.) The joint would fall between these two points. .026" =seems to me to be a very great increase over just 5 inches. I looked up the tapers for Dickerson's 8014 and 8015 rods. 8014 had an =increase of .015" between the same points, significantly less than the =8013. The even heavier 8015 rod had an increase of just .014 between the=same points. I also looked up several other listed tapers for Garrison, Cattenach and =Orvis 8' rods. None had more than .015" increase from point 45 to point =50. Is there something screwy here, or am I missing something? Thanks for any help, David ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700 I have considered building a rod to Dickerson's 8013= the Rodmakers website shows an increase of .026" from the 45" station to= me to be a very great increase over just 5 inches. I looked up the tapers for Dickerson's 8014 and 8015= less than the 8013. The even heavier 8015 rod had an increase of just = between the same points. I also looked up several other listed tapers for = 45 to point 50. something? Thanks for any help, David ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700-- from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 12 16:46:20 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3FD17B0394; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:45:17 -0500 Subject: Test from frankc@webspan.net Wed Jan 12 17:04:09 2000 Subject: join boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0 subscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0 subscribe rodmakers frank =caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0-- from martinjensen@home.com Wed Jan 12 17:50:28 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP 0800 Subject: test please delete Martin Jensen from yves@dancris.com Wed Jan 12 18:18:24 2000 Subject: e-mail test Test - list down again? Dave La Touche from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Jan 12 18:49:34 2000 Subject: testing Hi, messages have been slow and are now non-existant. Paul from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Jan 12 19:23:54 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: test/no msg from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan 12 20:27:20 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Setting a digital indicator I recently purchased a digital Mitutoyo indicator to set my forms. Howdoesone go about setting this indicator to a known setting? Specifically, Ihave a calibration bar that I'd like to use to set the indicator to .107.If I place the indicator point in the hole of the calibration bar and turnthe unit on, it registers zero. Thanks in advance, Richard Nantel from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed Jan 12 20:50:15 2000 0000 (207.103.93.59) Subject: Check up Just checking to see if I've been bumped off. Its lonesome in this dustyshop..... from trippma@mindspring.com Wed Jan 12 21:35:59 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580 Slow list? or is it down? Just testing. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580 testing. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580-- from seanmcs@ar.com.au Wed Jan 12 23:18:43 2000 Subject: List Is the list down. from frankc@webspan.net Thu Jan 13 05:21:28 2000 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20 unsubscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20 unsubscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20-- from frankc@webspan.net Thu Jan 13 05:22:18 2000 Subject: join boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40 subscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40 subscribe rodmakers frank =caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40-- from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jan 13 06:35:03 2000 Subject: Re: (no subject) In a message dated 1/10/00 7:11:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Makes a lot of sense, except that the links would need to be updated each time someone's ISP changes. Don Burns from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Thu Jan 13 07:29:41 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:29:35 EST Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Can anyone enlighten me on the status of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. Itook out a subscription later part of last year and had a sinkingfeeling I was missing an issue. When I checked the published date theywere for 1998. Anyone got the scoop on this magazine. I like the contentand hope it doesn't go belly up. Jim Tefft from Ed_Dickson@bc.sympatico.ca Thu Jan 13 08:16:23 2000 Subject: subscribe Ed Dickson from TBUTLER@HEWM.COM Thu Jan 13 09:38:17 2000 [206.189.208.11] (may be forged)) ; Thu, 13 (WorldSecureServer SMTP Relay(WSS) v3.6.2); Thu, 13 Jan 00 07:36:30 - 0800 ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:37:51 -0800 Subject: List I have stopped receiving mail. Did I get unsubscribed? ________________________________________________Tim ButlerHeller Ehrman White & McAuliffe Fax: (206) 447-0849E-mail: tbutler@hewm.comWeb: http://www.hewm.comThe information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictlyprohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message inerror, please e-mail the sender at tbutler@hewm.com. from rafick@fwi.com Thu Jan 13 11:11:29 2000 0000 Subject: test R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from seanmcs@ar.com.au Thu Jan 13 16:01:19 2000 Subject: Rodmakers list Hello. I received nothing for two days and yesterday unsubscribed andimmediately subscribed again. As I had an acknowledgement ofunsubscribing but not of subscribing, this morning our time I justsuscribed again. Please look and see I am not duplicated for messages,which are still absent, I note. Thanks. Sean from lars32@gateway.net Thu Jan 13 16:48:43 2000 Subject: Snake Brand Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0 Just received a shipment of guides from Mike McCoy at Snake Brand =Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give them a try since there =have been rave notices about them. The snake guides and the tip top =guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop and wire Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0 Just received a shipment ofguides = McCoy at Snake Brand Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give = since there have been rave notices about them. The snake guides and the = guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop and = Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 13 17:04:54 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:05:20 -0600 Subject: Re: List When I opened up at about 5:00 this afternoon, I had 37 messages. Mostwerewondering if the list was down again. I suspect there's allot of curlslaying on the floors of shops today ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: List I have stopped receiving mail. Did I get unsubscribed? ________________________________________________Tim ButlerHeller Ehrman White & McAuliffe Fax: (206) 447-0849E-mail: tbutler@hewm.comWeb: http://www.hewm.comThe information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictlyprohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message inerror, please e-mail the sender at tbutler@hewm.com. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 13 17:18:57 2000 Subject: Re: Dickerson taper In a message dated 1/13/0 10:36:30 PM, drossiter@uswest.net writes: David - It is a big jump, and I can't speak for the accuracy of the taper, but the few Dickerson's I have seen do have a big increase in the middle, helped along by a step down ferrule which accounts for .0156 of theincrease. from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan 13 17:22:04 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:19:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Snake Brand Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080 Dave,Ditto on the Snake Brand guides. Got a shipment in last week and =love em. I haven't tried the tip tops, but do have one of the agate =strippers... Excellent also. Guess I'll have to try the tip tops, too. = Bob-----Original Message-----From: lars32 Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 4:53 PMSubject: Snake Brand Guides Just received a shipment of guides from Mike McCoy at Snake Brand =Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give them a try since there =have been rave notices about them. The snake guides and the tip top =guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop and wire Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080 Dave, haven't tried the tip tops, but do have one of the agate strippers... = Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, January 13, 2000 4:53 PMSubject: Snake = GuidesJust received a shipment of = McCoy at Snake Brand Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give = try since there have been rave notices about them. The snake guides = tip top guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop = ------=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 13 17:30:50 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:31:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I sent them $17 just before Christmas, ordering the other 2 issues. So farall I have received is an invitation to subscribe again ! I did subscribeover the net, so I may still owe them for a years subscription. But, as Ipointed out, I want the back issues I paid for first ! My only issue to date, is dated Sept./Dec. 1998 ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Can anyone enlighten me on the status of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. Itook out a subscription later part of last year and had a sinkingfeeling I was missing an issue. When I checked the published date theywere for 1998. Anyone got the scoop on this magazine. I like the contentand hope it doesn't go belly up. Jim Tefft from thardy@foxinternet.net Thu Jan 13 17:40:54 2000 mailsite.foxinternet.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.5) with ESMTP idfor;Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:39:32 -0800 Subject: Snake brand guides Is anyone in the Northwest putting together an order enough order to qualify for the 40% discount. Reply offlist?Thanks,Tom Hardy, (Seattle)thardy@foxinternet.net from jhewitt@cmn.net Thu Jan 13 17:58:22 2000 Subject: Re: Snake brand guides Tom,I'm not the one putting together the order, but I certainly wouldbe interested in taking part.John thardy wrote: Is anyone in the Northwest putting together an order enough order to qualify for the 40% discount. Reply offlist?Thanks,Tom Hardy, (Seattle)thardy@foxinternet.net from landeens@home.com Thu Jan 13 18:05:43 2000 with SMTP ;Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:05:39 -0800 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules I posed the same question on the board 3-4 months ago and most buildersrecommended staying away from the truncated ferrules unless they werejustused on the tip section. I have built 4 3pc rods using standard ferrules andhave been pleased with the result and the casting actions.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: truncated ferrules New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if anyonecan tell me their experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing storiesabout broken sections because the shorter ferrules are attached to asmallerlength of cane. Therefore I bought standard size ferrules for the 3 piecetravel rod that I need for a trip out west. All comments welcome. EdMiller. I don't believe that the amount of bamboo covered by the ferrules is theproblem. I'd guess they were too small or not fitted right. I've had afewrods break at the ferrule and it was always the fact that I'd done a poorjob ofsize selection or application. I really believe truncated ferrules are better for three piece rods.Rememberthe area covered by a ferrule doesn't flex like the rest of the bamboo.Ithardly flexes at all. There for you're removing an extra two inches orso offlex from the rod if you use regular ferrules. You lose less flex withthetruncated ferrules. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 13 18:25:18 2000 Subject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 13 18:34:07 2000 Subject: Re: Setting a digital indicator Richard,if there are no buttons to do this you will have to work from zero beingthetop of your forms.Send the bloody thing back and get a $16 Chinese dial indicator, mine isverygood.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: I recently purchased a digital Mitutoyo indicator to set my forms. Howdoesone go about setting this indicator to a known setting? Specifically, Ihave a calibration bar that I'd like to use to set the indicator to .107.If I place the indicator point in the hole of the calibration bar and turnthe unit on, it registers zero. Thanks in advance, Richard Nantel from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jan 13 18:46:38 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A37787F00EA; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:53:11 -0500 Subject: Besides pictures... All,There are many sources of information on cane rods that might be ofvalue to the community. I'm using my new scanner and sending rodmakersads (Thomas, Edwards, S.B., etc.) from magazines of the 30's-60's toChris Bogart. Chris will then index them on his (or Jerry's) website.But this is just a beginning. Many articles about/ from the old makerscan be put on the web, or the cane rod column that Garrison edited inRod&Reel...If anyone has valuable archaic material scanned, Chris couldprobably integrate it into his site.You'd be amazed at what you can find. In one ad I found 3 South Bendrod models that aren't listed on the Classic Angler pages. Or anextensive critique of rod action by ol' E.C. Powell.Best regards,Reed from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan 13 18:49:20 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: digital indicator (This is all according to a post I made about a month ago)I have the same indicator and have tried to zero it and adjust it to a standard. If it is off when you check against your standard, the only thing I was told that you could do is buy some shims. I just set it to zero on top of my forms, and I work from there, adjusting that I know it is .004 off. If you find out how much it is off, use the online Hexrod and adjust your tapers using the remove varnish box on there.I must admit that the digital one is fast, but I expected better. 0 is not 0 on the two I have seen. Terry is right again. If I had the $100+ back, I would buy a dial type indicator and invest the money elsewhere. (like some extra Hock blades.)Hoping I am wrong,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from briansr@point-net.com Thu Jan 13 18:55:40 2000 be forged)) Subject: setting P.F. To Paul GoodwinThis question was nagging at me also.Does any adjust their planning forms to account for enamal removal???I hate these "tests" I keep forgetting to study :-(Cheers Brian from if6were9@bellsouth.net Thu Jan 13 18:59:40 2000 TAA19279; Subject: Speaking of guides I was looking through a new Cabela's tacklecraft catalog and they areoffering REC recoil guides and tops. I was intregued by these thingsand was wondering if anyone had ever used them. If I'm reading the bookright, they are high as the moon. ThanksPat from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 13 19:02:21 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:02:46 -0600 Subject: Re: digital indicator The Mitutoyo dial depth indicator (micrometer) sells for about half that,and the 60 deg. point is only $3, or so. Then you KNOW exactly where youare! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: digital indicator (This is all according to a post I made about a month ago)I have the same indicator and have tried to zero it and adjust it to astandard. If it is off when you check against your standard, the onlythingI was told that you could do is buy some shims. I just set it to zero ontop of my forms, and I work from there, adjusting that I know it is .004off. If you find out how much it is off, use the online Hexrod and adjustyour tapers using the remove varnish box on there.I must admit that the digital one is fast, but I expected better. 0 is not0 on the two I have seen. Terry is right again. If I had the $100+ back, Iwould buy a dial type indicator and invest the money elsewhere. (likesomeextra Hock blades.)Hoping I am wrong,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 13 19:06:39 2000 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules Hi,What I'm about to say is an old farmer's intuition on 3 pc. rod action as affected by the extra ferrule. When we add a ferrule to the top 1/3 of the rod we tend to slow the action EXCEPT for the added stiffness of theferrule. I feel the 2 factors offset one another. For this reason I don't change my tapers from a 2 pc taper.The added stiffness of the standard ferrule is why I don't use truncated ferrules.Just my $.02,Regards,Hank from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 13 19:10:15 2000 Subject: Re: List The list was quiet for a change-I've received all your e-mails.Regards,Hank. from if6were9@bellsouth.net Thu Jan 13 19:11:31 2000 UAA01953; Subject: Re: digital indicator Something just occurred to me and I thought I'd toss it in. Have you triedremoving the batteries for a minute or two? bob maulucci wrote: (This is all according to a post I made about a month ago)I have the same indicator and have tried to zero it and adjust it to astandard. If it is off when you check against your standard, the onlythingI was told that you could do is buy some shims. I just set it to zero ontop of my forms, and I work from there, adjusting that I know it is .004off. If you find out how much it is off, use the online Hexrod and adjustyour tapers using the remove varnish box on there.I must admit that the digital one is fast, but I expected better. 0 is not0 on the two I have seen. Terry is right again. If I had the $100+ back, Iwould buy a dial type indicator and invest the money elsewhere. (likesomeextra Hock blades.)Hoping I am wrong,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from pac1for@earthlink.net Thu Jan 13 19:28:18 2000 Subject: Salmon Rods I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST FROM-SCRATCH ROD!! It is an 8'9" salmon rod based on a Garrison taper. I built it forusing in the tributaries of the Great Lakes. I chose to build a salmon rodbecause steelhead season comes before mayfly season, so I figured Id gettouse it all the sooner! I was wondering if anybody on the list fishes bamboo for salmon,steelheador lake-run browns. Do you tend to baby your rod, therefore baby the fish?Or do you really put the boots to a fish during a fight? My thinking is,the first fish I hook on this rod, I'll really horse it in. If it's gonnabreak I might as well find out right away. In th past I have used a 9 foot8 weight South Bend 290 in the tribs . I found it just perfect for thebrown trout, a bit light for the rainbows, and too frightening tochuck-and-duck with. How do you all like bamboo rods in the tributaries? Peter Collin from anglport@con2.com Thu Jan 13 19:35:41 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AD36435D006C; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:34:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Speaking of guides Pat,I haven't used them but a REC rep demonstrated them at the CarlisleGathering. They certainly were impressive form a deform-return point ofview. What I kept wondering though, was if the feet might not pull outfromunder the windings when they temporarily deformed, thus negating theiradvantage by having to be rewrapped nyway. I really don't care if I'mreplacing a guide with a new one or the same old one. It's the labor andinconvenience, no?At the $3.50ea. (I think) price, I'll wait for someone else to do thebeta-testing.Art At 06:57 PM 01/13/2000 -0600, Pat Tumblin wrote:I was looking through a new Cabela's tacklecraft catalog and they areoffering REC recoil guides and tops. I was intregued by these thingsand was wondering if anyone had ever used them. If I'm reading the bookright, they are high as the moon. ThanksPat from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 13 19:44:52 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:35:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Salmon Rods I have a PHY Bobby Doer, which was made for salmon, as I recall. We don'thave such down here, but it will throw a WF-8, with a good size bug,nicely.I never strain the tip section on any cane rod, but use the butt, to applythe leverage. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Salmon Rods I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST FROM-SCRATCH ROD!! It is an 8'9" salmon rod based on a Garrison taper. I built it forusing in the tributaries of the Great Lakes. I chose to build a salmonrodbecause steelhead season comes before mayfly season, so I figured Idgettouse it all the sooner! I was wondering if anybody on the list fishes bamboo for salmon,steelheador lake-run browns. Do you tend to baby your rod, therefore baby thefish?Or do you really put the boots to a fish during a fight? My thinking is,the first fish I hook on this rod, I'll really horse it in. If it's gonnabreak I might as well find out right away. In th past I have used a 9foot8 weight South Bend 290 in the tribs . I found it just perfect for thebrown trout, a bit light for the rainbows, and too frightening tochuck-and-duck with. How do you all like bamboo rods in thetributaries? Peter Collin from if6were9@bellsouth.net Thu Jan 13 20:11:45 2000 VAA03929; Subject: Re: Speaking of guides Art, Thanks for the info, I've always preferred single leg fly guides and anytime Isee a new one I'm interested. As for mounting, I think an underwrapshould keepthe leg from twisting under stress, as well as protect the blank. I alsobelieve it would take an epoxy finish to keep everything together. Art Port wrote: Pat,I haven't used them but a REC rep demonstrated them at the CarlisleGathering. They certainly were impressive form a deform-return point ofview. What I kept wondering though, was if the feet might not pull outfromunder the windings when they temporarily deformed, thus negating theiradvantage by having to be rewrapped nyway. I really don't care if I'mreplacing a guide with a new one or the same old one. It's the labor andinconvenience, no?At the $3.50ea. (I think) price, I'll wait for someone else to do thebeta-testing.Art from ernie2@pacbell.net Thu Jan 13 21:01:55 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Speaking of guides Art,I made a rod several years ago (not bamboo) with the Fuji HardaloySingle foot guides. They have never loosened or given me any kind oftrouble. I think they have doubled the life of my fly line. I thought theylooked a bit strange at first, but soon got used to them. I don't know if Iwould put them on a bamboo rod because I think about bamboo as beingclassic..Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Art Port wrote: Pat,I haven't used them but a REC rep demonstrated them at theCarlisleGathering. They certainly were impressive form a deform-return pointofview. What I kept wondering though, was if the feet might not pull outfromunder the windings when they temporarily deformed, thus negating theiradvantage by having to be rewrapped nyway. I really don't care if I'mreplacing a guide with a new one or the same old one. It's the labor andinconvenience, no?At the $3.50ea. (I think) price, I'll wait for someone else to dothebeta-testing.Art from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jan 13 21:15:08 2000 Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:14:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Jim , I too was wondering what was going on and personally talked to MarkMetcalf who told me they were having some teething problems but assuredmethings would be cleared up early in the new year! It's a great mag andwaiting for it to arrive is pure agony! Hopefully they get straightened upsoon., Shawn Jim Tefft wrote: Can anyone enlighten me on the status of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. Itook out a subscription later part of last year and had a sinkingfeeling I was missing an issue. When I checked the published date theywere for 1998. Anyone got the scoop on this magazine. I like the contentand hope it doesn't go belly up. Jim Tefft from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 13 21:21:51 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:22:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Speaking of guides When I first got into wrapping rods, the Foulproof spring guides were a bigdeal. I have several rods, built with these guides, and they are still asgood as the first day, I used them. I still prefer them on my spinning rods.Does anyone still sell these ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Speaking of guides Art,I made a rod several years ago (not bamboo) with the Fuji HardaloySingle foot guides. They have never loosened or given me any kind oftrouble. I think they have doubled the life of my fly line. I thoughttheylooked a bit strange at first, but soon got used to them. I don't know ifIwould put them on a bamboo rod because I think about bamboo as beingclassic..Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Art Port wrote: Pat,I haven't used them but a REC rep demonstrated them at theCarlisleGathering. They certainly were impressive form a deform-return pointofview. What I kept wondering though, was if the feet might not pull outfromunder the windings when they temporarily deformed, thus negatingtheiradvantage by having to be rewrapped nyway. I really don't care if I'mreplacing a guide with a new one or the same old one. It's the laborandinconvenience, no?At the $3.50ea. (I think) price, I'll wait for someone else todothebeta-testing.Art from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jan 13 21:39:52 2000 Subject: Re: Sad Even more sad that some folks try to feel better aboutthemselves by knocking others for doing the same things theythemselves do. Harry someone wrote: how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jan 13 21:46:11 2000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Call me skeptical, but any magazine that's supposed to publish sixtimes a year, yet hasn't put out a single issue in about 14 months -- well,it's pretty close to dead. If I don't see a new issue by February 1, 2000 I'mgonna throw dirt on this one. Harry from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jan 13 22:23:03 2000 Subject: Re: digital indicator In a message dated 1/13/00 4:51:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Harbor Freight stores sell their 1" dial indicator for about $8 when it's on sale. Don Burns from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Jan 13 22:39:52 2000 UAA25029; Subject: Re: Speaking of guides I was at Loomis some months ago and Tim Rajeff showed me some singlefootguides that were made of very thin wire and were quite flexible. He saidthat they were very hard to keep on the rod, but that they were working onit. I imagine an underwrap would help Ed Hartzell Pat Tumblin wrote: I was looking through a new Cabela's tacklecraft catalog and they areoffering REC recoil guides and tops. I was intregued by these thingsand was wondering if anyone had ever used them. If I'm reading the bookright, they are high as the moon. ThanksPat from channer@outerbounds.net Thu Jan 13 22:42:28 2000 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP id;Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:42:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Sad At 07:29 PM 01/13/2000 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit oh, I don't know Terry, it's cheaper than heroin and not as sociallydestructiveJohn from dickay@alltel.net Fri Jan 14 06:27:37 2000 GAA24577; Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I paid for a subscription when the first issue came out. I was promised acopy of the first issue at that time. It never came and I had to find it ata local Fly shop. I then received isues 2, 3, and 4 although issue 4 wasvery late. I have not seen issue 5/6 and cannot find it at the local Flyshop. I have E-Mailed Mark Metcalf and have received no reply. However, their website does show a new issue. Whats up? Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Call me skeptical, but any magazine that's supposed to publish sixtimes a year, yet hasn't put out a single issue in about 14 months --well,it's pretty close to dead. If I don't see a new issue by February 1, 2000I'mgonna throw dirt on this one. Harry from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jan 14 06:31:19 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I am with Harry on this one, that magazine has been teething long enoughtomake a saber tooth tiger appear to be gumming its' food. Shawn Pineo wrote: Jim , I too was wondering what was going on and personally talked toMarkMetcalf who told me they were having some teething problems butassured methings would be cleared up early in the new year! It's a great mag andwaiting for it to arrive is pure agony! Hopefully they get straightened upsoon., Shawn Jim Tefft wrote: Can anyone enlighten me on the status of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine.Itook out a subscription later part of last year and had a sinkingfeeling I was missing an issue. When I checked the published date theywere for 1998. Anyone got the scoop on this magazine. I like thecontentand hope it doesn't go belly up. Jim Tefft from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Jan 14 07:46:10 2000 Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U. S. Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from Jack.Hires@valpo.edu Fri Jan 14 08:21:23 2000 Subject: unsubscribe unsibscribe -----------------------------------------Jack HiresEmail: Jack.Hires@valpo.eduValparaiso University from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jan 14 08:41:19 2000 Subject: Re: Besides pictures... In a message dated 1/13/00 4:50:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Reed, Mike Stevens has made some CD's of Heddon bamboo rod catalogs. Maybethis is the way to go? OBTW, I just purchased a copy of "The Fly Fishers Reader" by Leonard M. Wright, Jr. (Simon Schuster/Fireside publisher) and found an old article by Sparse Grey Hackle on Hiram Leonard - titled: "The Father of the Fly Rod". Written in 1942 and originally in "The Angler's Club Bulletin". I found out that Hiram Leonard at one time lived in my hometown.(Honesdale, PA) and that Leonard employee, Hiram Hawes, came from Honesdale too. P lus Hiram Hawes' brother, Loman, married Leonard's daughter Cora. Made me wonder if some of the old rods that my dad told me that he used brookie fishing, in the small streams near Honesdale and White Mills (backin the 1920's), and lost, broke or otherwise had depart from his posessionwere from these guys? Don Burns from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Jan 14 08:51:37 2000 Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:51:14 -0500 hexagon@odyssee.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Sad Oh my. The list got quiet and Terry said something naughty to stir it up.Happens every year, it seems. And there's always somebody new to fallforit. I have a mental image based on something Terry said in one of theseearlier exchanges about him floating down a tidal estuary in the raincasting for sculpin. Maybe, rather than everybody piling on to this rathersilly discussion,you could hold an image like that in your head and justpress the delete key. -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle [SMTP:edriddle@mindspring.com]Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U. S.Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan 14 10:02:55 2000 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Last weekend, when I was at Mark's office I saw the next issue,stack and stacks of them, waiting to be mailed out. When theywill actually be mailed I don't know.Darryl from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Jan 14 10:15:25 2000 Subject: Re: Salmon Rods Hi Peter,I can relay to you my experience with a bamboo rod used for Salmonfishing.The rod I used was my own taper RR-117-8 1/2 G.I. which is an 8 1/2ft x2pcx 7 wt with a 52" graphite insert all the way through the inside of thebuttsection. It was a good test for the rod and I really socked it to it by notbabying it. It handled many different types of fish with ease includingGrayling, Rainbows, Chum Salmon, Silver Salmon, and Sockeye Salmon. Ialsohooked a few King Salmon but rather than wasting time playing them outjustpointed the rod at the fish and snapped it off. All of this took place onthe Salmon River in Alaska and it was really fun. I've used the same rodforcatching Kamloops Trout in the lakes of British Columbia but prefersomething a little lighter. The taper is shown on page 61 of my book.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Salmon Rods I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST FROM-SCRATCH ROD!! It is an 8'9" salmon rod based on a Garrison taper. I built it forusing in the tributaries of the Great Lakes. I chose to build a salmonrodbecause steelhead season comes before mayfly season, so I figured Idgettouse it all the sooner! I was wondering if anybody on the list fishes bamboo for salmon,steelheador lake-run browns. Do you tend to baby your rod, therefore baby thefish?Or do you really put the boots to a fish during a fight? My thinking is,the first fish I hook on this rod, I'll really horse it in. If it's gonnabreak I might as well find out right away. In th past I have used a 9foot8 weight South Bend 290 in the tribs . I found it just perfect for thebrown trout, a bit light for the rainbows, and too frightening tochuck-and-duck with. How do you all like bamboo rods in thetributaries? Peter Collin from dickay@alltel.net Fri Jan 14 10:21:29 2000 KAA18231; Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Darryl,It doesn't seem to be a priority to Mark to get them into the subscribershands. When the first issues were being mailed they always seemed tocomeat the end of the period that they were to cover. Every other subscriptionthat I have comes before the period that it is supposed to cover. Example:If the issue is for February, it comes in the third week of January not thefourth week of February. As I said earlier today, I still have not received issue 5/6 or had a replyto an e-mail message sent to the magazines website. Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Last weekend, when I was at Mark's office I saw the next issue,stack and stacks of them, waiting to be mailed out. When theywill actually be mailed I don't know.Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan 14 10:47:57 2000 Subject: Deep Finish So I got a used vacuum pump and wondered what to do with it.I put a blank in my dipping tube, filled it with polyurethane varnishand pulled a vacuum on it for 15 minutes, released the vacuum withthe blank still under the varnish, let it sit for a half hour, drained the varnish out (drip tube of course), let the varnish dry in a drying cabinet where the handle will cover. The finish is deep! Now I'm wondering ifI have impregnated the blank with polyurethane. Could it be that easy??(Impregnating a rod that is).Darryl from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 14 11:05:23 2000 Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:04:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine The awnser that Mark gave me was that they would have sort of acombined superissue to catch up and that my subscription would start with delivery, Shawn Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl,It doesn't seem to be a priority to Mark to get them into the subscribershands. When the first issues were being mailed they always seemed tocomeat the end of the period that they were to cover. Every othersubscriptionthat I have comes before the period that it is supposed to cover. Example:If the issue is for February, it comes in the third week of January notthefourth week of February. As I said earlier today, I still have not received issue 5/6 or had a replyto an e-mail message sent to the magazines website. Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:02 AMSubject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Last weekend, when I was at Mark's office I saw the next issue,stack and stacks of them, waiting to be mailed out. When theywill actually be mailed I don't know.Darryl from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jan 14 13:08:03 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Sad Terry, you remind me of a line from an old Marx Bros film. Groucho hadbeentrying everything to gain admission to a very exclusive club. Finally themembers broke down and said he could join, to which he responded in ahuff,"Not on your life, I wouldn't want to be in a club that would have me as amember." -----Original Message----- Subject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Jan 14 13:33:35 2000 0500 Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I sent an email to subscribe some 6 or more months ago. I just received anicelyprinted card thanking me for my subscription. As much as I loved theissues Ihave seen, I just can't get myself to fork over the fee until I have moreconfidence. For now I am passing on it hoping that they will be able torecover.I realize that this is sort of self fulfilling prophecy (how can they deliverifpeople don't pay) but I just don't want to be the martyr my friend was inthebeginning (he has not seen all the issues he was due either). -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Darryl,It doesn't seem to be a priority to Mark to get them into the subscribershands. When the first issues were being mailed they always seemed tocomeat the end of the period that they were to cover. Every other subscriptionthat I have comes before the period that it is supposed to cover. Example:If the issue is for February, it comes in the third week of January not thefourth week of February. As I said earlier today, I still have not received issue 5/6 or had a replyto an e-mail message sent to the magazines website. Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Last weekend, when I was at Mark's office I saw the next issue,stack and stacks of them, waiting to be mailed out. When theywill actually be mailed I don't know.Darryl from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan 14 13:47:29 2000 0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sad Right on Barry from dhaftel@att.com Fri Jan 14 14:22:39 2000 PAA02237 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1sol2) (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine You have friends?? I'm the one Andy is talking about. I now have fourissues in my possession. I figured it was a gamble at the beginning, but Ialso figured I'l give it a try. The price of the subscription gets lowerwith each issue that arrives. At least that's how I look at it. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I sent an email to subscribe some 6 or more months ago. I just received anicelyprinted card thanking me for my subscription. As much as I loved theissuesIhave seen, I just can't get myself to fork over the fee until I have moreconfidence. For now I am passing on it hoping that they will be able torecover.I realize that this is sort of self fulfilling prophecy (how can theydeliver ifpeople don't pay) but I just don't want to be the martyr my friend was inthebeginning (he has not seen all the issues he was due either). -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Darryl,It doesn't seem to be a priority to Mark to get them into the subscribershands. When the first issues were being mailed they always seemed tocomeat the end of the period that they were to cover. Every other subscriptionthat I have comes before the period that it is supposed to cover. Example:If the issue is for February, it comes in the third week of January not thefourth week of February. As I said earlier today, I still have not received issue 5/6 or had a replyto an e-mail message sent to the magazines website. Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Last weekend, when I was at Mark's office I saw the next issue,stack and stacks of them, waiting to be mailed out. When theywill actually be mailed I don't know.Darryl from rhd360@maine.edu Fri Jan 14 14:42:13 2000 Level 310) via TCPwith SMTP ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:41:42 EST Subject: Re: Salmon Rods Peter, Congrats on your new stick. I fish cane for salmon routinely andsometimes pretty hard, both Atlantics here in the northeast and silvers inAK. Rods range from 8' to 14', 7wt and up. With a fish on, my intention isalways to flip the rod 180 every once in awhile to even out the stress, butinfact I rarely do. Otherwise I fish cane much like graphite, which for me ishard. The important thing to remember is to maintain a low arc on the rodsothat most of the force is distributed to the lower end of the rod ratherthanthe tip. (A high arc would be holding the rod with the tip high, low arcwiththe tip low relative to the fish.) Then again, I would fish graphite thesame way. I haven't had a cane rod blow up yet, but then I'm not tooconcerned either. You can always make another, maybe several. Might beadifferent story with a classic, but I fish a Heddon 9', 9wt just as hard. At 08:33 PM 1/13/00 -0500, Peter Collin wrote:I JUST FINISHED MY FIRST FROM-SCRATCH ROD!! It is an 8'9" salmon rod based on a Garrison taper. I built it forusing in the tributaries of the Great Lakes. I chose to build a salmon rodbecause steelhead season comes before mayfly season, so I figured Id gettouse it all the sooner! I was wondering if anybody on the list fishes bamboo for salmon,steelheador lake-run browns. Do you tend to baby your rod, therefore baby thefish?Or do you really put the boots to a fish during a fight? My thinking is,the first fish I hook on this rod, I'll really horse it in. If it's gonnabreak I might as well find out right away. In th past I have used a 9 foot8 weight South Bend 290 in the tribs . I found it just perfect for thebrown trout, a bit light for the rainbows, and too frightening tochuck-and-duck with. How do you all like bamboo rods in the tributaries? Peter Collin Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 14 15:13:23 2000 Subject: Test If you find the list down it is best not to panic. Breath deeply andthen go to the rodmakers archives, it is better than counting sheep!Actually it is the best way to filter out what you are not interested inand also get advice from those that have dropped over the last fiveyears. You can then compare the current experts with the experts of thepast.It is also interesting to see how rodmakers have matured from being apaid up member to "Wayne's World" to guys that have developed their ownpersonal style. from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Fri Jan 14 15:24:23 2000 Subject: Where is everyone? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5ED5.E1FD92C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5ED5.E1FD92C0 What happened? Did I miss the four minutye warning?T ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5ED5.E1FD92C0 warning?T ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5ED5.E1FD92C0-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 14 15:24:51 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sad What is wrong with a little tongue in cheek.I have been checking out the ROFF list and they would cut me to pieces,theyare baad.Very little to do with Flyfishing but wickedly entertaining, a sort ofLiterate mans Gerry Springer.So guys, when rodmakers is down check out ROFF and have some fun. Seth Steinzor wrote: Oh my. The list got quiet and Terry said something naughty to stir it up.Happens every year, it seems. And there's always somebody new to fallforit. I have a mental image based on something Terry said in one of theseearlier exchanges about him floating down a tidal estuary in the raincasting for sculpin. Maybe, rather than everybody piling on to this rathersilly discussion,you could hold an image like that in your head and justpress the delete key. -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle [SMTP:edriddle@mindspring.com]Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U. S.Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Jan 14 16:15:16 2000 17:14:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Sad Terry, As a long time ROFF reader and participant I resent your comments. Theonlytime things go downhill on ROFF is when there is excessive Spamming orsomeonestarts trolling. Mr Gherke has been one of the worst offenders of both those catagories.However,you, with you poor joke about George, are the only other person ever toopenlyattack someone. The "cut me to pieces" as you put it was ROFF's way of telling you tosmarten upor get out. If you are going to participate in ROFF I'ld suggest to heed thewarningslest you end up the pariah that another has become. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Sad What is wrong with a little tongue in cheek.I have been checking out the ROFF list and they would cut me to pieces,theyare baad.Very little to do with Flyfishing but wickedly entertaining, a sort ofLiterate mans Gerry Springer.So guys, when rodmakers is down check out ROFF and have some fun. Seth Steinzor wrote: Oh my. The list got quiet and Terry said something naughty to stir itup.Happens every year, it seems. And there's always somebody new to fallforit. I have a mental image based on something Terry said in one of theseearlier exchanges about him floating down a tidal estuary in the raincasting for sculpin. Maybe, rather than everybody piling on to thisrathersilly discussion,you could hold an image like that in your head and justpress the delete key. -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle [SMTP:edriddle@mindspring.com]Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U. S.Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 14 16:34:03 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:24:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Stacks of a new issue, just sitting, sounds like lack of funds ! There's nocredit at the P.O. ! I hope he makes it, as it's a good publication ! I'llcontribute the subscription price, in the hope that he makes a go of it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Darryl,It doesn't seem to be a priority to Mark to get them into the subscribershands. When the first issues were being mailed they always seemed tocomeat the end of the period that they were to cover. Every othersubscriptionthat I have comes before the period that it is supposed to cover.Example:If the issue is for February, it comes in the third week of January notthefourth week of February. As I said earlier today, I still have not received issue 5/6 or had areplyto an e-mail message sent to the magazines website. Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:02 AMSubject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Last weekend, when I was at Mark's office I saw the next issue,stack and stacks of them, waiting to be mailed out. When theywill actually be mailed I don't know.Darryl from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan 14 16:48:33 2000 0000 Subject: Re: Sad What is interesting to me is that the ROFF web sight consists of 5 blankpages and has done so since August 1999. Roff situation I'd say from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 14 17:03:05 2000 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:02:30 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Jim:I have been hearing that same story for at least eight months now and Idon"t believe it any more> Jack-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Jim , I too was wondering what was going on and personally talked toMarkMetcalf who told me they were having some teething problems butassured methings would be cleared up early in the new year! It's a great mag andwaiting for it to arrive is pure agony! Hopefully they get straightened upsoon., Shawn Jim Tefft wrote: Can anyone enlighten me on the status of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. Itook out a subscription later part of last year and had a sinkingfeeling I was missing an issue. When I checked the published date theywere for 1998. Anyone got the scoop on this magazine. I like the contentand hope it doesn't go belly up. Jim Tefft from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 14 17:32:59 2000 Subject: Re: Sad PaulActually my mother told me that joke when I called her over Christmasand I justmodified it. (no nasty remarks please she is 78 and a diamond) Us BritsandCanadians do not take life too seriously, we do not have to, all we canexpectis a broken nose for winding someone up.I do have a grudging admiration for George, he happens to be realflyfishermanif nothing else and he is having fun and that is what it is all about. He is amaster of self promotion and he knows there is no such thing as badpublicity sohe keeps plugging away. He is having a ball with you guys, you keep readinghisstuff because you just cannot delete it.Regarding ROFF, check out AN APOLOGY TO KEN AND THE GROUP. I'll thinkyou willfind an example of what I mean.TerryHere is the joke my old Mum told me:-Over in the UK they are giving Viagra to all the old boys in nursing homes-It prevents them from peeing down the front of their pants when they usethewashroom.It made me laugh anyway. PMG wrote: Terry, As a long time ROFF reader and participant I resent your comments. Theonlytime things go downhill on ROFF is when there is excessive Spamming orsomeonestarts trolling. Mr Gherke has been one of the worst offenders of both those catagories.However,you, with you poor joke about George, are the only other person ever toopenlyattack someone. The "cut me to pieces" as you put it was ROFF's way of telling you tosmarten upor get out. If you are going to participate in ROFF I'ld suggest to heed thewarningslest you end up the pariah that another has become. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "TERENCE ACKLAND" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 4:28 PMSubject: Re: Sad What is wrong with a little tongue in cheek.I have been checking out the ROFF list and they would cut me to pieces,theyare baad.Very little to do with Flyfishing but wickedly entertaining, a sort ofLiterate mans Gerry Springer.So guys, when rodmakers is down check out ROFF and have some fun. Seth Steinzor wrote: Oh my. The list got quiet and Terry said something naughty to stir itup.Happens every year, it seems. And there's always somebody new tofallforit. I have a mental image based on something Terry said in one oftheseearlier exchanges about him floating down a tidal estuary in the raincasting for sculpin. Maybe, rather than everybody piling on to thisrathersilly discussion,you could hold an image like that in your head andjustpress the delete key. -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle [SMTP:edriddle@mindspring.com]Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U.S.Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from fquinchat@locl.net Fri Jan 14 17:33:26 2000 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15529 for ;Fri, 14 Jan 2000 Subject: dogleg at the ferrule boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BF5EBE.D471FAE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BF5EBE.D471FAE0 I have a crooked male ferrule on a Dickerson 8615 that I just assembled. =Anyone have suggestions on how to remove the ferrule? I used ACRAGLAS=(gel). Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BF5EBE.D471FAE0 I have a crooked male ferrule on a= Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BF5EBE.D471FAE0-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jan 14 18:59:54 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: pictures Is anyone monitoring, and taking images off eBay of the classic rods for the proposed picture gallery on the Rodmakers site? Is it ethical to copy these images for that purpose? Saw some interesting classic rods there today, including one by an Arkansas native who sold it to an old timer that fished the White River. Sounds like your territory Bob N.But, where do these guys come off putting rods with no pics up for $1000 starting bid? Get real. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 14 19:06:47 2000 Fri, 14 Jan 2000 21:06:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Sad boundary="------------DE6CD1B7F3AD9715FAC31969" --------------DE6CD1B7F3AD9715FAC31969 Alrighty then ,I think that we should maybe steer back to something atleastremotely related to rod building, this is getting my stomach turning! Imeanthis is the rodmakers listserv here, or have we been taken over by someweird ,whiney Y2K alien race? Fun is fun but this is just a waste of time!!! There are lots of good Questions and info not even looked at while youare debating a non-issue. This IS sad!!! Shawn Ralph W Moon wrote: What is interesting to me is that the ROFF web sight consists of 5 blankpages and has done so since August 1999. Roff situation I'd say --------------DE6CD1B7F3AD9715FAC31969 Alrighty then ,I think that we should maybe steer back to something atleast remotely related to rod building, this is getting my stomach turning!I mean this is the rodmakers listserv here, or have we been taken over of time !!! There are lots of good Questions and info not even looked atwhile you are debating a non-issue. This IS sad!!! ShawnRalph W Moon wrote:What is interesting to me is that the ROFF websightconsists of 5 blank say --------------DE6CD1B7F3AD9715FAC31969-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 14 19:14:38 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:05:21 -0600 Subject: Re: pictures I wrote to a man, who lives on the White, up in Mo., who had put his PHY oneBay. He turned down $1750 for it, and had no picture either ! Strange ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: pictures Is anyone monitoring, and taking images off eBay of the classic rods forthe proposed picture gallery on the Rodmakers site? Is it ethical to copythese images for that purpose? Saw some interesting classic rods theretoday, including one by an Arkansas native who sold it to an old timerthatfished the White River. Sounds like your territory Bob N.But, where do these guys come off putting rods with no pics up for$1000starting bid? Get real. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 14 19:15:26 2000 Subject: Re: setting P.F. Why not remove the enamel before final planing? from lars32@gateway.net Fri Jan 14 19:44:52 2000 Subject: Re: Sad How do I find ROFF?Dave N.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sad Terry, As a long time ROFF reader and participant I resent your comments. Theonlytime things go downhill on ROFF is when there is excessive Spamming orsomeonestarts trolling. Mr Gherke has been one of the worst offenders of both those catagories.However,you, with you poor joke about George, are the only other person ever toopenlyattack someone. The "cut me to pieces" as you put it was ROFF's way of telling you tosmarten upor get out. If you are going to participate in ROFF I'ld suggest to heedthewarningslest you end up the pariah that another has become. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "TERENCE ACKLAND" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 4:28 PMSubject: Re: Sad What is wrong with a little tongue in cheek.I have been checking out the ROFF list and they would cut me to pieces,theyare baad.Very little to do with Flyfishing but wickedly entertaining, a sort ofLiterate mans Gerry Springer.So guys, when rodmakers is down check out ROFF and have some fun. Seth Steinzor wrote: Oh my. The list got quiet and Terry said something naughty to stir itup.Happens every year, it seems. And there's always somebody new tofallforit. I have a mental image based on something Terry said in one oftheseearlier exchanges about him floating down a tidal estuary in the raincasting for sculpin. Maybe, rather than everybody piling on to thisrathersilly discussion,you could hold an image like that in your head andjustpress the delete key. -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle [SMTP:edriddle@mindspring.com]Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U.S.Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 14 19:51:03 2000 Subject: Re: Salmon Rods To all,I understand the theory about playing the fish with the butt of the rod. One question, how do you bring 'em to the net without bending the tip severely?Regards,Hank. from cphisey@neca.com Fri Jan 14 20:05:47 2000 Subject: painted ferrules Well I got a question for the list,I'm resetting ferrules on a cheapo rod for a friend, seems to be a9' 3/2 H.I.with ferrules w/o water seals.The ferrules appear to beblackenedwith a paint of which most has chipped off.Yhey look like H*ll, while restof the rod is sound.Any ideas how to repaint them or is it best to just usethe Payne Oxidizer (ferrules appear to be chrome plated brass)TIACharles Hisey from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Jan 14 20:34:56 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id PAA09036; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 15:34:41 +1300 Subject: Re: 9' Phillipson Premium 3/2 5 5/8oz. HCH Ed, I have now just about cleqared the Christmas backlog, finished the rodsforthe boys , caught up on a few work jobs , and feeling almost on top ofthings. Only have to complete my tax returns for the year ending March1999in the next two weeks. I am now looking at the pile of spare splits on my work bench and startingto think of those tips of yours. I know you sent me a email with a bit more information , but i cannot findit in my folder. I do not know much about Phillipson rods , but looking atthe dimensions of the tips they sure are precisely made. I doubt I canmatchthat consistancy using a hand plane but will get close. Tips seem to beeasier to get consistant then butts. So I have the taper dimensions. You made a mention of resoinal glue . Iusually use epoxy , but can get resoinal if it is needed. It is myunderstanding that resoinal , or Penaclite which I think he used , willalways show the glue lines so if the rest of the rod does not show gluelines then it may be an apoxy , or the glue has been bleached in some way . I tend to heat treat rods to a medium straw colour . it would be a great put a little stain in the varnish to apparently darken the rod section . Ihave done this in restorations where I have spliced a section in to restorea rod to correct length .this is also often the case if it is an older rodand the original varnish has yellowed. I guess I an suggesting that I may be able to get these tips started overthe next couple of weeks and the more information i have the closer i canget the match . Do you know what the node spacing system is on the rod ?,i can probably match that unless it is a complicated one. I trust you had a good new year . Ian Kearney At 11:20 AM 23/11/99 -0500, Ed Riddle wrote:To All:I own one of these with only one tip section and unfortunately that one isdown 5" at the tip. I've been told that other Phillipson model tip-sectionsmight fit, but who has any extras lying around. If anyone is interested inmaking me a tip section, or two, please contact me off list.Also, what should I use to remove masking tape residue from a finishedrodwithout harming the varnish? TIA.Ed-----Original Message-- ---From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Monday, November 22, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: 9' Phillipson Premium 3/2 5 5/8oz. HCH Here is one I said I would post from a couple weeks ago. 9' Phillipson premium 3/2 5 5/8 oz. HCH.Black wraps with white tipping and then black tipping. Hammer grip. Blackaluminum "No Rock" downlocking screwlock reelseat. No hookkeeper.Granger/Phillipson style winding check. Ferrules are size 18 butt/med,andsize 12 mid/tip. They are step down design.I would subtract .006 for varnish. I gave all measurements rounded to the nearest .0005" to demonstratehowwell Phillipson production rods were made. 5" station measurementscan'tdo justice to what a beveler can do, but hopefully if you make this rod itwill be similar to Phillipson's design. The measurements on the midsection betwen 60" and 70" are not an error. This was apparently afeaturePhillipson wanted in this taper. Guide spacing is also shown below. The space between the bottom guideonthe tips and the top guide on the mid is only 3 5/8" because there is aguide butted up against either side of the mid/tip ferrule, as wastypicalon some Phillipson and Granger rods. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tip #1 Tip #2 1" .0775, .079, .079 .076, .076, .07855" .092, .092, .0925 .0915, .0915, .091510" .113, .113, .1155 .114, .1155, .11615" .1275, .1285, .129 .132, .1325, .132520" .145, .1455, .1475 .149, .150, .15125" .157, .1595, .1615 .159, .161, .16130" .170, .171, .1735 .169, .171, .17134" .172, .1735, .176 .172, .1735, .175Ferrule40" .1995, .202, .204545" .2285, .2285, .23350" .239, .243, .243555" .250, .250, .25360" .261, .261, .262565" .255, .256, .26070" .259, .261, guideFerrule75" .278, .284, .284580" .302, .306, .30985" .321, .3275, .330590" .335, .337, .34295" .3475, .355, .35697" .387, .388, .398Wrap/Check/Cork starts about here *** Guide Spacing*** tiptop 0"#1 6"#2 12#3 19"#4 26 5/8"#5 34 1/2" mid#6 38 1/8"#7 48 1/4"#8 58 7/8"#9 70" buttstripper 78 3/4" from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 14 20:39:40 2000 Subject: Re: Sad I got on to it again through the programme Free agent. It lets you getconnectedto the thousands of lists out there, many of which look extremelyinterestingbut my wife keeps close tabs on me( there is a list for the most wierdestofinterests!) Roff is recreational outdoor Fly fishing. The Free agent way ofgetting on roff is far better than joining up as per rodmakers because youcanjust download the junk when you feel like a change rather than have it inyourmailbox every day. lars32 wrote: How do I find ROFF?Dave N.-----Original Message-----From: PMG Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 2:24 PMSubject: Re: Sad Terry, As a long time ROFF reader and participant I resent your comments. Theonlytime things go downhill on ROFF is when there is excessive Spammingorsomeonestarts trolling. Mr Gherke has been one of the worst offenders of both those catagories.However,you, with you poor joke about George, are the only other person ever toopenlyattack someone. The "cut me to pieces" as you put it was ROFF's way of telling you tosmarten upor get out. If you are going to participate in ROFF I'ld suggest to heedthewarningslest you end up the pariah that another has become. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "TERENCE ACKLAND" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 4:28 PMSubject: Re: Sad What is wrong with a little tongue in cheek.I have been checking out the ROFF list and they would cut me topieces,theyare baad.Very little to do with Flyfishing but wickedly entertaining, a sort ofLiterate mans Gerry Springer.So guys, when rodmakers is down check out ROFF and have some fun. Seth Steinzor wrote: Oh my. The list got quiet and Terry said something naughty to stir itup.Happens every year, it seems. And there's always somebody new tofallforit. I have a mental image based on something Terry said in one oftheseearlier exchanges about him floating down a tidal estuary in the raincasting for sculpin. Maybe, rather than everybody piling on to thisrathersilly discussion,you could hold an image like that in your head andjustpress the delete key. -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle [SMTP:edriddle@mindspring.com]Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U.S.Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from brookie@frii.com Fri Jan 14 20:48:20 2000 Subject: teaching rodbuilding (cost) I'm always a'feard to post to the RodMakers, I'm ALWAYS off topic itseems.Personally I see a connection to everything I post, but that is an EGO forya *G* There will come a time when I too shall build my first cane. Year 2000 isthe year. I can't do this alone with a mentor. I need a crowd. So I'lltalk a couple of friends into joining me in learning this art. Question to those that DO teach, and/or mentor: It's not reasonable toexpect a freebie on this ; surely we WILL pay for the cane, hardware. Andwe should expect to pay the teacher for his time. We're talking start tofinish here on building, not just the blank process. And we'll be usingthe teacher's cane building tools on this first rod. .... what do you charge others YOU mentor through the entire process ?Or .... what do you think reasonable ? I happen to know this chap andhe'll low- ball it I suppose. I want to negotiate higher with him though.All that expertise should not go uncompensated. If you would prefer to pvt email me, that's great ... suecolorado from brookie@frii.com Fri Jan 14 20:53:28 2000 Subject: roff website since I'm on a roll of non-thread material, I'll give this one a try : How do I find ROFF?Dave N. easiest way that I found recently, having no capability to 'do' newsgroups,is to : - go to www.deja.com- upper righthand corner under QUICK SEARCH- put in "fishing" without the "- next screen, right there should be rec.outdoors.fishing.fly- double click and have at it from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Jan 14 21:27:22 2000 Subject: Re: Sad Hi, ROFF is the acronym for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly which is an internet newsgroup. The news groups were the original bulliten boards on the internet. There are some websites like Deja and Excite that offer a packaged accesstothe news groups. Note that due to excessive spamming Excite is about tobeblocked from accessing the news groups. I use outlook express to read them. You get a mail like access to them andyou don't have to deal with the adds and other comercialization that dejaadds. To get access through your ISP you'll need to know what the newserver. For my ISP (earthlink) it is "news.earthlink.net". In outlookexpress click on TOOLS then Accounts and hit the news tab then add. fill inthe blanks and on the server section put in your news server, your ISPaccount and your password. Most ISPs have the instructions on their websites for setting up the different readers. One word of warning. Put something in the EMAIL address you use that itwon't work without some manual intervention. there are some who haveautomated programs to read the news groups and capture mail addresses.Thenthey sell these addresses and you end up with more email in you inbox in aday than this list generates in a month. They'll try to sell you everything from pyramid schemes to porno. I use a free email address on Yahoo andYahoohas filters that recognizes spam mail and sticks it in a special "bulk" mailfolder for you. Back to ROFF. There are some knowledgable people that are more thanhappy toanswer any questions about fly fishing. The tolerate an occasional pointerto a comercial site or a pointer to EBAY. just don't make a habit of it.There are some who have experienced the wrath of ROFF. There is onepersonin particular that thinks they are the only one who knows anything aboutevery aspect of fly fishing. He started a production bamboo rod companybecause the bamboo rod makers today are ripping people off - his wordsnotmine. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Sad How do I find ROFF?Dave N.-----Original Message-----From: PMG Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 2:24 PMSubject: Re: Sad Terry, As a long time ROFF reader and participant I resent your comments. Theonlytime things go downhill on ROFF is when there is excessive Spammingorsomeonestarts trolling. Mr Gherke has been one of the worst offenders of both those catagories.However,you, with you poor joke about George, are the only other person ever toopenlyattack someone. The "cut me to pieces" as you put it was ROFF's way of telling you tosmarten upor get out. If you are going to participate in ROFF I'ld suggest to heedthewarningslest you end up the pariah that another has become. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "TERENCE ACKLAND" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 4:28 PMSubject: Re: Sad What is wrong with a little tongue in cheek.I have been checking out the ROFF list and they would cut me topieces,theyare baad.Very little to do with Flyfishing but wickedly entertaining, a sort ofLiterate mans Gerry Springer.So guys, when rodmakers is down check out ROFF and have some fun. Seth Steinzor wrote: Oh my. The list got quiet and Terry said something naughty to stiritup.Happens every year, it seems. And there's always somebody new tofallforit. I have a mental image based on something Terry said in one oftheseearlier exchanges about him floating down a tidal estuary in the raincasting for sculpin. Maybe, rather than everybody piling on to thisrathersilly discussion,you could hold an image like that in your head andjustpress the delete key. -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle [SMTP:edriddle@mindspring.com]Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Sad You're in over your head fella in attempting to compete with the U.S.Govt.in suggesting how folks conduct their daily lives.Ed-----Original Message----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 14 22:23:16 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:14:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Salmon Rods I usually work them down to not being so "green", and just lead them tohandor net by the leader. The rod is tucked under my arm by then, completelyslacked off line tension. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Salmon Rods To all,I understand the theory about playing the fish with the butt of therod.One question, how do you bring 'em to the net without bending the tipseverely?Regards,Hank. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Jan 14 22:58:32 2000 (rperry@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Re: teaching rodbuilding (cost) On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, sue kreutzer wrote: I'm always a'feard to post to the RodMakers, I'm ALWAYS off topic itseems.Personally I see a connection to everything I post, but that is an EGO forya *G* There will come a time when I too shall build my first cane. Year 2000isthe year. I can't do this alone with a mentor. I need a crowd. So I'lltalk a couple of friends into joining me in learning this art. Question to those that DO teach, and/or mentor: It's not reasonable toexpect a freebie on this ; surely we WILL pay for the cane, hardware. Andwe should expect to pay the teacher for his time. We're talking start tofinish here on building, not just the blank process. And we'll be usingthe teacher's cane building tools on this first rod. .... what do you charge others YOU mentor through the entire process ?Or .... what do you think reasonable ? I happen to know this chap andhe'll low- ball it I suppose. I want to negotiate higher with him though.All that expertise should not go uncompensated. If you would prefer to pvt email me, that's great ... suecolorado FYI (FWIW), if you were to take Wayne's 2 day Bamboo Rod Building Classatthe Somerset show in NJ, it would cost $100. You obviously don't walk out with a finished bamboo rod, "but with theknowledge to begin your own". You get a "hands on introduction to bamboorod building & restoration" with up to 15 other brave souls! Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jan 14 23:29:52 2000 Subject: Re: teaching rodbuilding (cost) Sue,Why not study, research, prepare, and experiment on your own, like manyofus have. It can be lots more satisfying than handholding and being spoonfed. This isn't art, neurosurgery or rocket science. It's craft. Loads ofpeople learn complex crafts on their own.Steve I'm always a'feard to post to the RodMakers, I'm ALWAYS off topic itseems.Personally I see a connection to everything I post, but that is an EGOforya *G* There will come a time when I too shall build my first cane. Year 2000isthe year. I can't do this alone with a mentor. I need a crowd. So I'lltalk a couple of friends into joining me in learning this art. Question to those that DO teach, and/or mentor: It's not reasonable toexpect a freebie on this ; surely we WILL pay for the cane, hardware. Andwe should expect to pay the teacher for his time. We're talking start tofinish here on building, not just the blank process. And we'll be usingthe teacher's cane building tools on this first rod. .... what do you charge others YOU mentor through the entire process ?Or .... what do you think reasonable ? I happen to know this chap andhe'll low- ball it I suppose. I want to negotiate higher with him though.All that expertise should not go uncompensated. If you would prefer to pvt email me, that's great ... suecolorado from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Jan 15 03:24:13 2000 Subject: Subscription boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF5F42.B74CB0C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF5F42.B74CB0C0 Subscribe rodmakers Marco Boretti ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF5F42.B74CB0C0 Boretti ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF5F42.B74CB0C0-- from Canerods@aol.com Sat Jan 15 09:28:35 2000 Subject: Re: painted ferrules In a message dated 1/14/00 6:07:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,cphisey@neca.com writes: This is called "Japaning" and Heddon did it on many of their lower-end rods too. It's nothing but black lacquer paint sprayed onto the ferrules. Be careful of using lacquer to seal any wraps done over the ferrule, it'll disolve the black lacquer Japaning and discolor the thread. Ask me how Iknow! Don Burns from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jan 15 10:39:14 2000 Subject: Re: painted ferrules In a message dated 1/15/0 3:31:20 PM, Canerods@aol.com writes: Charlie - I think you will find the chrome to be impervious to theblackening solution. I would just repaint with a spray enamel after removing the old paint. Maybe a primer will help prevent flaking? from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 15 11:42:55 2000 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:42:20 +0000 Subject: Re: painted ferrules Charlie:There is a black oven cure gun finish that I have used and works very wellif you want a paint like finish. It is distributed by Brownells calledTeflon/Moly Oven Cure Gun Finish spray and after spraying you have tocureit for 30 min. @ 300* etc. and it gets hard as H*ll. I suppose you wouldhave to finish the ferrules before installing on the rod because of the ovencuring. Jack-----Original Message----- Subject: painted ferrules Well I got a question for the list,I'm resetting ferrules on a cheapo rod for a friend, seems to be a9' 3/2 H.I.with ferrules w/o water seals.The ferrules appear to beblackenedwith a paint of which most has chipped off.Yhey look like H*ll, while restof the rod is sound.Any ideas how to repaint them or is it best to just usethe Payne Oxidizer (ferrules appear to be chrome plated brass)TIACharles Hisey from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat Jan 15 11:45:14 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Below the belt Paul,I am pleased you liked the post to ROFF, but I already see too many postsabout George over there. I expected the Rodmakers List would bedifferent.George is a sick man. There wasn't a person on ROFF who didn't wish himsuccess when he began his bamboo rod making venture. He succeeded inalienating almost every one of us with his constant spamming about hisflyfishing products and what a great bamboo rod builder and great person hewas. He shipped the first of his rods which were returned because theywerea mess. George ranted and raved and called people some bad things. Heblamed UPS for messing up the rods during shipment. He believes there isasucker born every minute, the best defense is a good offense and there isnosuch thing as bad publicity. I have had him on my kill file for months, buthis stuff keeps getting through in other peoples posts. The only reasonIrespond to any of them is in hopes it will make him leave ROFF again.Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Below the belt Check out the post under "below the belt" that G2posted. 1) it looks like Georges nemisis is back and2) it's classic george. --- Ernie Harrison wrote:Salmon Fly,He is just getting warmed up. Wait till he stopstaking his medicationand his trolley really comes off the track.Ernie Salmon Fly wrote: So you've tired of insulting us and you're movingon to family members.And you call us bottom dwellers.sf_______________________________ from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat Jan 15 13:14:57 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Below the belt I apologize for sending the message "below the belt" to the RODMAKERSLIST.It was meant to go to Paul personally.Ernie Harrison from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 15 13:57:48 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:58:14 -0600 Subject: Re: painted ferrules You can water sand them, and paint with black epoxy enamel. This isavailable in better model shops, in smaller quantities. Nothing will phaseit, after it cures. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: painted ferrules In a message dated 1/14/00 6:07:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,cphisey@neca.comwrites: I'm resetting ferrules on a cheapo rod for a friend, seems to bea9' 3/2 H.I.with ferrules w/o water seals.The ferrules appear to beblackenedwith a paint of which most has chipped off.Yhey look like H*ll, whilerestof the rod is sound.Any ideas how to repaint them or is it best to justusethe Payne Oxidizer (ferrules appear to be chrome plated brass)TIACharles Hisey >> This is called "Japaning" and Heddon did it on many of their lower-endrodstoo. It's nothing but black lacquer paint sprayed onto the ferrules. Be careful of using lacquer to seal any wraps done over the ferrule, it'lldisolve the black lacquer Japaning and discolor the thread. Ask me how Iknow! Don Burns from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Jan 15 16:14:53 2000 Subject: test from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 15 16:48:35 2000 Subject: Rod varnishing I am interested in the different ways that people varnish their rods. Doyou use color preserver? Do you varnish a fully furnished rod or do itprior to installing the hardware? What type of varnish/mixture? Do youdip,brush, or spray? How long do you wait before using the rod? Whatlittle tricks do you have? I'm curious to hear the differences in yourmethods! Oh and I also forgot to include those who impregnate, lets hear from you as well!,Shawn from cadams46@juno.com Sat Jan 15 17:54:22 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswCdWMt1h5OV3O1tkY8mXt6l5/uVOWIlt8Q==" 18:54:12 EST Subject: Blueing Ferrules I was out shopping today and saw a small bottle of gun bluing sloution.It was $7 I think for about 4 oz. and said it was for steel and ferrousmetals I think (you'll have to execuse me I am not much of a chemist). Ididn't buy it but do you guys think it'd work or has anyone ever tryed astore bought solution like that? Is blueing a good alternative tooxidizing? Thanks in advance.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 15 18:46:37 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:47:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Blueing Ferrules That type of bluing is for steel. I think LeClaire has a special solution hesells to oxidized N.S./brass. Brownell's also has something, and the bestcold bluing for steel there is. I would think the archives will have a nice assortment or techniques onrodfinishing. from what I read here, most pro's have a dip tank, and a dryingcase, or box, that is heated with a light bulb mounted in the bottom. Sinclair's book on Heddon, says their rods were done with an air brush, andthey certainly were nicely done. Once I built a dust free dryer box, Iintend to try the air brush method, since I've used one for years. I heremany speak of 30 days drying, between coats, and smoothing. We are forced to use color preserver for restoration jobs, but I prefer avarnish fill of the wraps. It makes the tough, and I like the translucentlook it gives. I have rods finished in spar varnish in the early 1950's, that are stillperfect, so I think I'll stay with it. Many say they put all the coats ofvarnish on, and finish the rod, before wrapping the guides. I would thinkthis would preclude using color preserver. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Blueing Ferrules I was out shopping today and saw a small bottle of gun bluing sloution.It was $7 I think for about 4 oz. and said it was for steel and ferrousmetals I think (you'll have to execuse me I am not much of a chemist). Ididn't buy it but do you guys think it'd work or has anyone ever tryed astore bought solution like that? Is blueing a good alternative tooxidizing? Thanks in advance.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from cadams46@juno.com Sat Jan 15 19:03:03 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswFamy8yw23CJFvaJFKtZtOMZdToaSNTATA==" 20:02:04 EST Ray,Thanks thats exactly what this stuff was, Birchwood Perma Blue. GaldI didn't waste my $7. Appreciate it.Sincerely,C.R. Adams Hi Chase,I've tried a couple of commercially available bluing solutions BirchwoodCasey Perma Blue and Formula 44/40 Instant Gun Blue. Both of theseworkto adegree but not really well. The surface always seems flakey afterwardsandthe bluing must be varnished to protect it.Ray from cadams46@juno.com Sat Jan 15 19:09:33 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswFamy8yw23CJVUmqUmIVxvlBxb17KYmdaA==" 20:08:32 EST Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules Just Curious Ray while I'am on the subject you didn't by any chance trythat birchwood perma blue on a rifle did you. I've got an older .22that the blueing is pretty well worn off, not quite important enough tome to have it professionaly done. Thanks and please execuse my question Sincerely,C.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 15 19:44:23 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:35:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules I use cold bluing constantly in my shop, and while Birchwood's is O.K.,Brownell's is the best. It helps any "cold" bluing solution, to have thepart warm. I have smaller parts in boiling water, pull them out, and applythe solution quickly. Wipe down and oil afterwards. It seems to last longerthis way. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules Just Curious Ray while I'am on the subject you didn't by any chance trythat birchwood perma blue on a rifle did you. I've got an older .22that the blueing is pretty well worn off, not quite important enough tome to have it professionaly done. Thanks and please execuse my question Sincerely,C.R. Adams from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Sat Jan 15 19:57:45 2000 Sat, 15 Jan 2000 20:57:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Blueing Ferrules I've used a store bought blueing solution by Outers for the past 10 yearsand have been very happy with the results. I do buff and lacquer themafterblueing. Sean Moran----- Original Message ----- Subject: Blueing Ferrules I was out shopping today and saw a small bottle of gun bluing sloution.It was $7 I think for about 4 oz. and said it was for steel and ferrousmetals I think (you'll have to execuse me I am not much of a chemist). Ididn't buy it but do you guys think it'd work or has anyone ever tryed astore bought solution like that? Is blueing a good alternative tooxidizing? Thanks in advance.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Jan 15 22:57:56 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA02106; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:57:45 +1300 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules now- and guides I use this Perma Blue on the steel wire I use to make guides. It turns thema dark black in about 30 secs but needs a coat of varnish to stop itwearingthin.I guess it would make a good job on an old rifle. Ian Kearney At 06:06 PM 15/01/00 -0700, Chase R Adams wrote:Just Curious Ray while I'am on the subject you didn't by any chance trythat birchwood perma blue on a rifle did you. I've got an older .22that the blueing is pretty well worn off, not quite important enough tome to have it professionaly done. Thanks and please execuse my question Sincerely,C.R. Adams from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 16 01:40:32 2000 Subject: taper archives Not to complain about an awesome site and a valuable resource , but Ihave noticed that there haven't really been any new tapers added to thearchive in some time! Perhaps we should be adding to this more often andincluding such things as the photos we were discussing, guide spacingand whatnot as well as a description of the action have quite a fewtapers that are missing and I'm sure others have too! I would be happyto contribute what I have just tell me how I go about it?Just in thelast couple of weeks I have seen tapers change hands that could be addedto the list. Thanks,Shawn from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sun Jan 16 08:17:16 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Rod varnishing Shawn, the easiest way to find the myriad of answers to your questionswould be to search the rodmakers archives and do a little homework.Surprising what you find there! ;>)J. Snider At 04:45 PM 01/14/2000 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:I am interested in the different ways that people varnish their rods. Doyou use color preserver? Do you varnish a fully furnished rod or do itprior to installing the hardware? What type of varnish/mixture? Do youdip,brush, or spray? How long do you wait before using the rod? Whatlittle tricks do you have? I'm curious to hear the differences in yourmethods! Oh and I also forgot to include those who impregnate, lets hear from you as well!,Shawn from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 16 09:01:48 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Rod varnishing/Impregnating/Vacuum Sir D:I would like to hear more about the vacuum pump experiments youmentioned last week. Thanks,Bob At 09:18 AM 1/16/00 -0500, you wrote:Shawn, the easiest way to find the myriad of answers to your questionswould be to search the rodmakers archives and do a little homework.Surprising what you find there! ;>)J. Snider At 04:45 PM 01/14/2000 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:I am interested in the different ways that people varnish their rods. Doyou use color preserver? Do you varnish a fully furnished rod or do itprior to installing the hardware? What type of varnish/mixture? Do youdip,brush, or spray? How long do you wait before using the rod? Whatlittle tricks do you have? I'm curious to hear the differences in yourmethods! Oh and I also forgot to include those who impregnate, lets hear from you as well!,Shawn Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 16 09:16:25 2000 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules Question, how long does the 'bluing' last ? I had heard not indefinite.Does it's longevity correspond to wear and tear, weather, where you live(e.g., near salt water ?). I happen to like the 'bluing' effect, very much. from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Jan 16 09:18:04 2000 Subject: Re: Deep Finish In a message dated 00-01-14 11:54:28 EST, DNHayashida@aol.com writes: Depending on how porous the material, the impregnation should be deep. Has anyone done a porosity test on dry bamboo? Geologist use this test foroil production all the time. The higher the porosity and permabilty, the easier to get the transfer. You need both though and I think a good university could preform the test with ease. Anybody out there with the ability to preform the test? stuart miller from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 16 09:55:24 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 16 Jan 2000 09:55:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Deep Finish An interesting thread, I hope gets developed further. I wonder what resincould be used, instead of the varnish ? What an interesting thing, to checkflexibility, and/or recovery, between the two ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Deep Finish In a message dated 00-01-14 11:54:28 EST, DNHayashida@aol.comwrites: I put a blank in my dipping tube, filled it with polyurethane varnishand pulled a vacuum on it for 15 minutes, released the vacuum withthe blank still under the varnish, let it sit for a half hour, drainedthevarnish out (drip tube of course), let the varnish dry in a dryingcabinet where the handle will cover. The finish is deep! Now I'm wondering ifI have impregnated the blank with polyurethane. Could it be that easy??(Impregnating a rod that is).Darryl >> Depending on how porous the material, the impregnation should be deep.Hasanyone done a porosity test on dry bamboo? Geologist use this test foroilproduction all the time. The higher the porosity and permabilty, theeasierto get the transfer. You need both though and I think a good universitycould preform the test with ease. Anybody out there with the ability topreform the test? stuart miller from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 16 09:59:52 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:00:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules Cold bluing steel will last well, if not around areas where your hands areconstantly holding it. I have not oxidized N.S., but since it has morecopper, and zinc,(brass) than it does nickel, this means the treatmentshould be deeper. I would think, since it's not constantly being handled, itwould last a long time. You guys who do this, please comment. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules Question, how long does the 'bluing' last ? I had heard not indefinite.Does it's longevity correspond to wear and tear, weather, where you live(e.g., near salt water ?). I happen to like the 'bluing' effect, verymuch. from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 16 10:03:37 2000 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules Question, how long does the 'bluing' last ? I had heardnot indefinite. Does it's longevity correspond to wear and tear, weather, where you live (e.g., near salt water ?).I happen to like the 'bluing' effect, very much. You ever post something and realize, after re-reading your own stuff thatit makes little sense, or the obvious fairly screams out at you ? *G*Of course 'bluing' is not indefinite. Let's try again here. Bluing onthe ferrules and reel seat hardware --- think it might last 10 yearsbeforereapplication needed ? All a matter of preference in aesthetics I suppose.One person's wear is not another's. And since I'm still at the questioning phase here, so it wears down/off,reapplication is simple enough ? or do you have to take the initial layeroff completely before re-doing ? ( Apologies to those who feel we all should be using the archives to findthis type of info. An observation though, if these listservs didn't get aPete and RePete of questions, there would be no need for them, esp. assomelistservs aren't understanding of the normal give-and-take off-topicbanterof like- minded sportsmen. (no slams nor sarcasm intended, just statingfact from my point of view). ) suecolorado from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 16 10:06:05 2000 Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:05:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules sue kreutzer wrote: Question, how long does the 'bluing' last ? I had heard not indefinite.Does it's longevity correspond to wear and tear, weather, where you live(e.g., near salt water ?). I happen to like the 'bluing' effect, very much. Sue,The bluing-oxidation most folks use on guides doesn't last long at allunless it is covered by something to protect it. Line shooting through theguides will rub it off the inside in a hard day's fishing.On reel seat components I've started using an automotive clear coatcalled "Nyalic" or something like that. It is thin, tough as nails, heatresistant to 1500*, and easy to use straight out of the spray can.On ferrules, I usually keep them masked off until I oxidize them, justminutes before dipping the final coat of varnish. The Payne formula givesabeautiful color, but I've found you can almost wipe it off with a tissue. IfIdon't get the uniformity I want, I just touch the ferrule to the buffingwheel havingthe ferrule perfectly clean and grease free. I use naptha to clean them,thendon't touch till after the varnish dries.Someone asked about using the cold blue to fix up an old .22 rifle. Itwill work, but the bluing will rub off very easily. Although I haven'tworked onguns much in the last fifteen years, I think you're better off findingsomeonewho has the facilities to do a hot blue. If you decide to attempt it, thesamerules apply. Get it really clean. Don't handle at all. Use multiple coats -I'd say 6-8, to get the bluing as deep as possible. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 16 10:13:50 2000 Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:13:41 -0800 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules sue kreutzer wrote: And since I'm still at the questioning phase here, so it wears down/off,reapplication is simple enough ? or do you have to take the initial layeroff completely before re-doing ? Sue,When it wears off, you DO have to remove the old before installingthenew. But it's very simple to do. After any varnish or other protectivecoating is removed, 4/0 steel wool will remove the bluing and shine thenickelsilver like new in just a few seconds. Then re-blue, and re-coat withvarnish-lacquer-clear coat- whatever -- just something to protect thebluing.Oh yeah, be sure to cover the slide portion of the male ferrule withScotch tape to keep from bluing it, and plug the inside of the femalethorouglyto keep the solution out of there. HB from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 16 10:26:14 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:16:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules A good run down by Harry. Bluing will stay indefinitely, if not where it canbe rubbed. I re-blue my over and under receiver/trigger guard areas afterevery season, as it wears off there after a few days a field. I understand LeClaire's formula is very good on N.S., though pretty toxic. Iintend to try it, when I start making N.S. ferrules. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules sue kreutzer wrote: Question, how long does the 'bluing' last ? I had heard not indefinite.Does it's longevity correspond to wear and tear, weather, where youlive(e.g., near salt water ?). I happen to like the 'bluing' effect, verymuch. Sue,The bluing-oxidation most folks use on guides doesn't last long atallunless it is covered by something to protect it. Line shooting throughtheguides will rub it off the inside in a hard day's fishing.On reel seat components I've started using an automotive clearcoatcalled "Nyalic" or something like that. It is thin, tough as nails, heatresistant to 1500*, and easy to use straight out of the spray can.On ferrules, I usually keep them masked off until I oxidize them,justminutes before dipping the final coat of varnish. The Payne formulagivesabeautiful color, but I've found you can almost wipe it off with a tissue.If Idon't get the uniformity I want, I just touch the ferrule to the buffingwheel havingthe ferrule perfectly clean and grease free. I use naptha to clean them,thendon't touch till after the varnish dries.Someone asked about using the cold blue to fix up an old .22rifle. Itwill work, but the bluing will rub off very easily. Although I haven'tworked onguns much in the last fifteen years, I think you're better off findingsomeonewho has the facilities to do a hot blue. If you decide to attempt it, thesamerules apply. Get it really clean. Don't handle at all. Use multiplecoats -I'd say 6-8, to get the bluing as deep as possible. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Jan 16 10:27:51 2000 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules Hi, If you want bluing to last it must be coated, or it will ware very fast.Joe from sats@gte.net Sun Jan 16 10:34:52 2000 (1Cust3.tnt11.clearwater.fl.da.uu.net Subject: Re: Rod varnishing I am interested in the different ways that people varnish their rods. Doyou use color preserver? I don't do many Varnish rods. I live in a high humidity, high dustenvironment.Drying time is about a week and that's a long time for a rod tho hangaroundeven in a drying cabinet. The few times I have used varnish I've done it after I've installed theferrules, handle and tiptop, but before I've wrapped the rod. But I'vewiped,not dipped. I'm thinking of trying an airbrush on the next rod I do. I have one of thelittle Badger $20 jobs that should do the trick. Airbrushing is THE onlywayto paint small plastic models. The media goes on evenly and dries quickly. Unlike Model making, or fine art, where a $100 or $200 airbrush isrequired, themost expensive part of airbrushing a rod would be the propellent. Youhavethree choices. Cans of compressed gas, which are cheep to start out with, but over timeadd up,because they don't hold much propellent. And the pressure in the canvaries asyou use it up. (one trick is to put a can that's almost empty in a pan of'warm'-- not hot -- water.) Bottles, like those used for soda dispensers in restraints. They require aonetime purchase of a "HIGH PRESSURE" regulator and a deposit for thebottle. Ican guarantee that you'll have enough CO2 to last for years. Re-charge isfairly cheep. The gas is at about 800~900 PSI so you want a goodregulator toget that down to working pressure. (Helpful hint. Don't let a bottle of CO2get lose in your work shop or you'll have a new opening in one of the wallsandanything that was between it and the will have been moved out of theway...) Compressor , probably the most widely used in model making. They costanywhere from $100 ~ $450 for a hobby style, (If you want a 50gal. professional,you canspend a lot more.) The cheep ones come without a tank, which means youhave tokeep them running while you spray. They are noisy. Not something you'llwantto use while your neighbors are trying to sleep. They put out up to around150PSI and need to be regulated down to a usable pressure. The regulatorsarecheep and available from most 'Lowes,' 'Home Depot,' or 'Sears.' Youneverneed a fill up. But you will need to get a moisture trap to keep globs ofcompressed humidity from spraying out on your work as a drop of water. Paint, even varnish, is usually thinned, before spraying through anAirbrush.Some people thin as much as 2 to1 thinner. Pressure varies from person to person, and airbrush to airbrush. Most usebetween 25 and 35 PSI, coming out of the brush, while others go as low as14 PSIand as high as 74 PSI. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 16 11:19:32 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Rod varnishing Re.: air for airbrushing - fourth alternative: A car spare tire + an adaptor. the cheapest way to accesan unending supply of pressurized air: Your local freindlygasstation. I think this adaptor can be bought from Badger. regards, Carsten from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 16 11:42:06 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:42:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod varnishing Badger also makes a small compressor, I even use in the house when airbrushing. It's under $100, and well worth it. The main trick, will befinding the proper consistency, of the varnish. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: Rod varnishing Re.: air for airbrushing - fourth alternative: A car spare tire + an adaptor. the cheapest way to accesan unending supply of pressurized air: Your local freindlygasstation. I think this adaptor can be bought from Badger. regards, Carsten from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan 16 12:58:59 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A4993603D2; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:57:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Sv: Rod varnishing Carsten,The European gas stations haven't discovered charging for air yet?Yes, IAM serious -- a quarter a pop! But I guess your prices on gas aresufficient that they can still afford to "give away" the air, eh?Art At 06:21 PM At 06:21 PM 01/16/2000 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Re.: air for airbrushing - fourth alternative: A car spare tire + an adaptor. the cheapest way to accesan unending supply of pressurized air: Your local freindlygasstation. I think this adaptor can be bought from Badger. regards, Carsten from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Jan 16 14:18:20 2000 Subject: Polyurethane impregnation In thinking about the vacuum polyurethane finish a little more, Idon't see anything wrong in using polyurethane varnish as animprenation material. After all polyurethane is tough, elastic, andresists wear (at least that's what it says on the can). The only problemI can see is does the varnish harden inside the bamboo. I imagine ithas to eventually.Darryl from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 16 14:56:55 2000 Subject: endless belts A couple of weeks ago I received a 1/16in dia braided endless belt fromwww.beltingindustries.comI discussed with them exactly what I wanted the belt for and theysuggested a Teflon impregnated belt HM-8. They have apparently suppliedor supply a cane rodmaking outfit with teflon endless braided belts fortheir binder.The belts work out to $15 each and should be a good addition to aGarrison type binder.I did not get to try the belt out, I had it in my hand and put it downto work on a pulley I wanted to use with it. I could not remember whereI put the bloody thing and I spent all last weekend looking for itwithout success. Anyway my basement looks a little tidier.Terry from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jan 16 16:39:19 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA2F29B90154; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:46:07 -0500 Subject: Re: endless belts Terry,Definitely one of the best posts in a long time, it brings up animportant, but seldom mentioned, point in rodmaking. Novices in shopworkprobably don't know how to misplace something as effectively andpermanently as you or I. I, too, have noticed that the object I put down disappear.This invaluable skill is not learned overnight. If anyone is interestedin classes in this arcane art, please reply offlist.As for endless belts, I know that some believe the best endless beltsare those removed from a bottle after they viewed the glue seams on theirlatest rod.Best regards,Reed TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: A couple of weeks ago I received a 1/16in dia braided endless belt fromwww.beltingindustries.comI discussed with them exactly what I wanted the belt for and theysuggested a Teflon impregnated belt HM-8. They have apparently suppliedor supply a cane rodmaking outfit with teflon endless braided belts fortheir binder.The belts work out to $15 each and should be a good addition to aGarrison type binder.I did not get to try the belt out, I had it in my hand and put it downto work on a pulley I wanted to use with it. I could not remember whereI put the bloody thing and I spent all last weekend looking for itwithout success. Anyway my basement looks a little tidier.Terry from dellc@nextdim.com Sun Jan 16 16:40:42 2000 Subject: Re: endless belts I make my own out of 50# Coutland running line, pull the end back thru thecenter with both ends twice and if you still dont trust it whip the centerof the lap. The running line comes on 100 ft. spools.@ $10.each.DellDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: endless belts A couple of weeks ago I received a 1/16in dia braided endless belt fromwww.beltingindustries.comI discussed with them exactly what I wanted the belt for and theysuggested a Teflon impregnated belt HM-8. They have apparently suppliedor supply a cane rodmaking outfit with teflon endless braided belts fortheir binder.The belts work out to $15 each and should be a good addition to aGarrison type binder.I did not get to try the belt out, I had it in my hand and put it downto work on a pulley I wanted to use with it. I could not remember whereI put the bloody thing and I spent all last weekend looking for itwithout success. Anyway my basement looks a little tidier.Terry from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 16 16:52:54 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:43:30 -0600 "Rodmakers Listserv" Subject: Re: endless belts There are others in this Elite group, that have deciphered the entrance of agreater power, which takes items off into the Fourth Dimension ! Thesolution is to get up, and go to another place, doing something totallydifferent. Then, when you return, that item is back ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: endless belts Terry,Definitely one of the best posts in a long time, it brings up animportant, but seldom mentioned, point in rodmaking. Novices inshopworkprobably don't know how to misplace something as effectively andpermanently as you or I. I, too, have noticed that the object I put down disappear.This invaluable skill is not learned overnight. If anyone isinterestedin classes in this arcane art, please reply offlist.As for endless belts, I know that some believe the best endless beltsare those removed from a bottle after they viewed the glue seams ontheirlatest rod.Best regards,Reed TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: A couple of weeks ago I received a 1/16in dia braided endless beltfromwww.beltingindustries.comI discussed with them exactly what I wanted the belt for and theysuggested a Teflon impregnated belt HM-8. They have apparentlysuppliedor supply a cane rodmaking outfit with teflon endless braided belts fortheir binder.The belts work out to $15 each and should be a good addition to aGarrison type binder.I did not get to try the belt out, I had it in my hand and put it downto work on a pulley I wanted to use with it. I could not remember whereI put the bloody thing and I spent all last weekend looking for itwithout success. Anyway my basement looks a little tidier.Terry from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 16 16:59:18 2000 "dellc@nextdim.com" Subject: Re: endless belts Dell Save yourself some money - use the Braided Nylon Chalk & Mason Linethat you can get at the local hardware store - I get 250' for under $5 andthereare larger rolls - brand name for the stuff I get is Wellington - found theirweb pageat: http://www.wellingtoninc.com/Default.htm Since it doesn't say fishinglineon it - it is a whole lot cheaper and works just fine. Chris On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 14:41:36 -0800, Dell wrote: I make my own out of 50# Coutland running line, pull the end back thruthecenter with both ends twice and if you still dont trust it whip the centerof the lap. The running line comes on 100 ft. spools.@ $10.each.DellDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:00 PMSubject: endless belts A couple of weeks ago I received a 1/16in dia braided endless belt fromwww.beltingindustries.comI discussed with them exactly what I wanted the belt for and theysuggested a Teflon impregnated belt HM-8. They have apparentlysuppliedor supply a cane rodmaking outfit with teflon endless braided belts fortheir binder.The belts work out to $15 each and should be a good addition to aGarrison type binder.I did not get to try the belt out, I had it in my hand and put it downto work on a pulley I wanted to use with it. I could not remember whereI put the bloody thing and I spent all last weekend looking for itwithout success. Anyway my basement looks a little tidier.Terry from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 16 17:10:49 2000 "nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: taper archives Shawn Easier said than done - Jerry was tied up last year finding a newhome for Rodmakers. Seeing a taper in an email and posting it on the website with pictures, stress curve, etc takes a lot of work. Also becausesomeoneposts a taper - most of the time the information is partial rather then ascomplete as you want it for a reference. I am working on having a PDF form that canbedownloaded, filled in and emailed. It would be a lot more complete anduseful format.Pictures are in the works. We are working now to help improve theRodmakers web site as a resource - it just takes time and effort - thereis a lot morework there than it looks. Chris On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:37:13 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote: Not to complain about an awesome site and a valuable resource , but Ihave noticed that there haven't really been any new tapers added to thearchive in some time! Perhaps we should be adding to this more often andincluding such things as the photos we were discussing, guide spacingand whatnot as well as a description of the action have quite a fewtapers that are missing and I'm sure others have too! I would be happyto contribute what I have just tell me how I go about it?Just in thelast couple of weeks I have seen tapers change hands that could be addedto the list. Thanks,Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 16 17:28:08 2000 Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:27:25 -0400 Subject: Re: taper archives Chris,I realize how much work must go into this type of thing every time Iturn thismachine on! I'm still amongst the computer challenged and wouldn't evenknow where tobegin! The form idea sounds like a good idea, that way even the the mostcomputerchallenged of us could help out,(we call it rigger- proof in my trade, lol!!) and itwouldprobably make it a little easier on the other end as well, I wouldimagine!Thanks,Shawn Chris Bogart wrote: Shawn Easier said than done - Jerry was tied up last year finding a newhome for Rodmakers. Seeing a taper in an email and posting it on the website with pictures, stress curve, etc takes a lot of work. Also becausesomeoneposts a taper - most of the time the information is partial rather thenas completeas you want it for a reference. I am working on having a PDF form thatcan bedownloaded, filled in and emailed. It would be a lot more complete anduseful format.Pictures are in the works. We are working now to help improve theRodmakers web site as a resource - it just takes time and effort - thereis a lot morework there than it looks. Chris On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:37:13 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote: Not to complain about an awesome site and a valuable resource , but Ihave noticed that there haven't really been any new tapers added to thearchive in some time! Perhaps we should be adding to this more oftenand> >including such things as the photos we were discussing, guidespacingand whatnot as well as a description of the action have quite a fewtapers that are missing and I'm sure others have too! I would be happyto contribute what I have just tell me how I go about it?Just in thelast couple of weeks I have seen tapers change hands that could beaddedto the list. Thanks,Shawn from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 16 17:28:46 2000 Subject: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of thedepthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it works and itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using theplaning form and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the twojawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need to experimentwithways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times widthopened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and .087 onthedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have pictures anda diagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I would passthe basicinformation along since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter way ofcheckingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 16 17:33:25 2000 Subject: Re: endless belts Reed,If you and Terry need any help teaching the class on how to makethingsdisappear in the shop, just let me know. I seem to be a real expert. Ilooked home.They were right under my nose the whole time. One thing I have learned isthatit does NOT help to yell and scream accusing SWMBO of moving the thingyou putdown just a minute before. In fact, that makes things worse -- muchworse. Myshop is tiny, 7x14, and it is terribly uncomfortable when you have to sleepoutthere with the cat and the missing stuff.I usually don't misplace those things I use all the time. What I can'tfind is that thing I put down while thinking, "I'll put this right here..... soI'll be sure to remember where it is when I need it".You know the gremlin that eats socks in the clothes dryer? I think helikes reel seat parts as well. Harry reed curry wrote: Terry,Definitely one of the best posts in a long time, it brings up animportant, but seldom mentioned, point in rodmaking. Novices inshopworkprobably don't know how to misplace something as effectively andpermanently as you or I. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 16 17:35:10 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:34:40 +0100 Subject: Sv: Sv: Rod varnishing -Art wrote: from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 16 17:40:15 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Polyurethane impregnation -Sir D wrote: In thinking about the vacuum polyurethane finish a little more, Idon't see anything wrong in using polyurethane varnish as animprenation material. After all polyurethane is tough, elastic, andresists wear (at least that's what it says on the can). The only problemI can see is does the varnish harden inside the bamboo. I imagine ithas to eventually.Darryl Darryl This is simply the most brilliant idea, this list has seen for a long time.Now, where do I get a vacuum pump? Could I use a compressor, sortsof backwards, if You get the drift? regards,Carsten from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 16 18:24:56 2000 Subject: Re: endless belts I find that all these methods produce a hard spot in the cord which addstwistto a delicate tip and they also fray and the loose ends catch under thebinding cord.I want to bevel a whole batch of sections and then glue them all up in oneshot and I would rather spend a few bucks rather than worry aboutwhether thejoin is going to hold. Dell wrote: I make my own out of 50# Coutland running line, pull the end back thruthecenter with both ends twice and if you still dont trust it whip the centerof the lap. The running line comes on 100 ft. spools.@ $10.each.DellDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 1:00 PMSubject: endless belts A couple of weeks ago I received a 1/16in dia braided endless beltfromwww.beltingindustries.comI discussed with them exactly what I wanted the belt for and theysuggested a Teflon impregnated belt HM-8. They have apparentlysuppliedor supply a cane rodmaking outfit with teflon endless braided belts fortheir binder.The belts work out to $15 each and should be a good addition to aGarrison type binder.I did not get to try the belt out, I had it in my hand and put it downto work on a pulley I wanted to use with it. I could not remember whereI put the bloody thing and I spent all last weekend looking for itwithout success. Anyway my basement looks a little tidier.Terry from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan 16 18:31:10 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A27790B0066; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:29:43 -0500 Subject: Re: endless belts All,There was an absolutely wonderful Twilight Zone on a few years backthatmade an analogy between time and a train full of boxcars. We ride in agiven boxcar (the present) while faceless blue-clad workers in the carahead are setting up the next moment and more are dismantling the past inlatter cars. There is a priceless scene where the protoganists are able towander into a future frame and workers are beating the H**l out of twcarsthat are going to get into an accident. The foreman of the crew explains tothe disbelieving "time-travellers" how we sometimes allllllmost catchthemwhen we notice something "isn't there" and then look back and see it"really is".One of the fellows in blue screwed up, ran back and fixed hismistake before we could see him.My wife and I often joke about being "in the wrong minute".Sound familiar? Art At 05:32 PM 01/16/2000 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Reed,If you and Terry need any help teaching the class on how to makethingsdisappear in the shop, just let me know. I seem to be a real expert. Ilooked home.They were right under my nose the whole time. One thing I have learned isthatit does NOT help to yell and scream accusing SWMBO of moving the thingyouputdown just a minute before. In fact, that makes things worse -- muchworse. Myshop is tiny, 7x14, and it is terribly uncomfortable when you have tosleep outthere with the cat and the missing stuff.I usually don't misplace those things I use all the time. What Ican'tfind is that thing I put down while thinking, "I'll put this righthere..... soI'll be sure to remember where it is when I need it".You know the gremlin that eats socks in the clothes dryer? Ithink helikes reel seat parts as well. Harry reed curry wrote: Terry,Definitely one of the best posts in a long time, it brings up animportant, but seldom mentioned, point in rodmaking. Novices inshopworkprobably don't know how to misplace something as effectively andpermanently as you or I. from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 16 18:35:05 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update this will work if the edges of the caliper are very sharp but they are not.Seems a roughway ofchecking a $100 digital depth gauge.The easiest way would be to plane a piece of bamboo and compare thethickness of the caneand thethe reading on the depth gauge at the same station. Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of thedepthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it works anditreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using theplaningform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the twojawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need to experimentwithways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times widthopened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and .087on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have pictures anda diagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpass the basicinformationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter way ofcheckingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Jan 16 18:40:05 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Chris,I use .115. It works well for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of thedepthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it works anditreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using theplaningform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the twojawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need to experimentwithways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times widthopened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and .087on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have pictures anda diagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpass the basicinformationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter way ofcheckingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 16 19:04:48 2000 Subject: Glue boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6054.F20FBBE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6054.F20FBBE0 I have read in a number of places about rod sections being glue starved. =I am therefore careful to use recomended weights on my garrison binder =not wanting that to happen to one of my hard won rods. In gluing wood =clamping is done with much pressure. The purpose being to make the glue =joint as thin as possible. Why doesn't this apply to bamboo. Why don't =we clamp our sections as tightly as possible? Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6054.F20FBBE0 I have read in a number of places= sections being glue starved. I am therefore careful to use recomended = my garrison binder not wanting that to happen to one of my hard won = gluing wood clamping is done with much pressure. The purpose being to = glue joint as thin as possible. Why doesn't this apply to bamboo. Why = N. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6054.F20FBBE0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 16 19:15:44 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:16:13 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF6056.3AEB0D00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF6056.3AEB0D00 Isn't this what the binding is supposed to do ? Perhaps I'm wasting =glue, but I sure have to wipe allot off as I bind a section back, when =doing a separation repair. GMA Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 9:07 PMSubject: Glue I have read in a number of places about rod sections being glue =starved. I am therefore careful to use recomended weights on my garrison=binder not wanting that to happen to one of my hard won rods. In gluing =wood clamping is done with much pressure. The purpose being to make the=glue joint as thin as possible. Why doesn't this apply to bamboo. Why =don't we clamp our sections as tightly as possible? Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF6056.3AEB0D00 Isn't this what the binding is supposed to = Perhaps I'm wasting glue, but I sure have to wipe allot off as I bind a = back, when doing a separation repair. GMA ----- Original Message ----- lars32 = Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 = PMSubject: Glue I have read in a number of places= sections being glue starved. I am therefore careful to use recomended = on my garrison binder not wanting that to happen to one of my hard won = In gluing wood clamping is done with much pressure. The purpose being = the glue joint as thin as possible. Why doesn't this apply to bamboo. = N. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF6056.3AEB0D00-- from pac1for@earthlink.net Sun Jan 16 19:23:39 2000 Subject: Re: Glue boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF6060.7E382980" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF6060.7E382980 I have seen the graphs that accompany the tapers in the rodmakers =archives. Neither axis of the graphs are labelled. Can somebody tell =me what the units of measurement each axis is? How my we interpret the=graph line for a given taper, relative to the rod's fastness or =slowness? Peter Collin ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF6060.7E382980 =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 ==00s=00e=00e=00n=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00g=00r=00a=00p=00h=00s=00==00t=00h=00a=00t=00 =00a=00c=00c=00o=00m=00p=00a=00n=00y=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00 =00t=00a=00p=00e=00r=00s=00 =00i=00n=00=00=0D=00=0A==00t=00h=00e=00 =00r=00o=00d=00m=00a=00k=00e=00r=00s=00 ==00a=00r=00c=00h=00i=00v=00e=00s=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00==00N=00e=00i=00t=00h=00e=00r=00 =00a=00x=00i=00s=00 =00o=00f=00==00t=00h=00e=00 =00g=00r=00a=00p=00h=00s=00 =00a=00r=00e=00 ==00l=00a=00b=00e=00l=00l=00e=00d=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00==00C=00a=00n=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00s=00o=00m=00e=00b=00o=00d=00y=00 =00t=00e=00l=00l=00=00m=00e=00 ==00w=00h=00a=00t=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00u=00n=00i=00t=00s=00=00o=00f=00 ==00m=00e=00a=00s=00u=00r=00e=00m=00e=00n=00t=00=00e=00a=00c=00h=00 ==00a=00x=00i=00s=00 =00i=00s=00?=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 ==00H=00o=00w=00 =00m=00y=00 =00w=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00i=00n=00t=00e=00r=00p=00r=00e=00t=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 ==00g=00r=00a=00p=00h=00 =00l=00i=00n=00e=00 =00f=00o=00r=00=00a=00 ==00g=00i=00v=00e=00n=00 =00t=00a=00p=00e=00r=00,=00 ==00r=00e=00l=00a=00t=00i=00v=00e=00 =00t=00o=00 =00t=00h=00e=00==00r=00o=00d=00'=00s=00 =00f=00a=00s=00t=00n=00e=00s=00s=00=00o=00r=00 ==00=0D=00=0A==00s=00l=00o=00w=00n=00e=00s=00s=00?=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00=00P=00e=00t=00e=00r=00 ==00C=00o=00l=00l=00i=00n=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00------ =_NextPart_000_0007_01BF6060.7E382980-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Jan 16 19:55:11 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Graphs was Re: Glue Peter I have been told these graphs showed stress points. Rod length isacross the bottom and I don't know what is on the vertical axis. If thesegraphs can indicate the fastness or slowness of the rod I would also beinterested in learning about it.Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Glue I have seen the graphs that accompany the tapers in the rodmakersarchives.Neither axis of the graphs are labelled. Can somebody tell me what theunits of measurement each axis is? How my we interpret the graph line given taper, relative to the rod's fastness or slowness? Peter Collin from piscator@crosswinds.net Sun Jan 16 20:18:07 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: endless belts I started using 3/32" diameter orange-go 85 polyurethane belting made byFenner Drives in Manheim, PA. I've also used the 1/8" belting, andmaybe like it better. Haven't decided yet. You use a flame orsoldiering iron to melt the ends and make a really smoooooth endlessbelt that has some give, is a bit tacky, is soft and non marring andcleans up easily with water (If you use URAC or some such). Make sureyou get the 85 durometer, they also make harder stuff that just slips onthe binder and does not work. Brian from rmoon@ida.net Sun Jan 16 21:10:10 2000 0000 Subject: Re: Glue Lars I have maintained for years, (and there are a lot of postings inthe archives on this subnect.) that you cannot get too much pressure ona glue joint. Glue starvation in my mind does not mean the glue hasbeen sqeezed out, rather that it was not there in the first place. Ralph from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 16 21:12:57 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:10:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue boundary="----=_NextPart_000_06F4_01BF6066.2B660460" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_06F4_01BF6066.2B660460 The horizontal field is the rod (it's length), the Vertical field is the =computed stress in in/oz. -----Original Message-----From: Peter Collin Date: Sunday, January 16, 2000 7:24 PMSubject: Re: Glue I have seen the graphs that accompany the tapers in the rodmakers =archives. Neither axis of the graphs are labelled. Can somebody tell =me what the units of measurement each axis is? How my we interpret the=graph line for a given taper, relative to the rod's fastness or =slowness? Peter Collin ------=_NextPart_000_06F4_01BF6066.2B660460 The horizontal field is the rod = the Vertical field is the computed stress in in/oz. -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Glueÿþ I have seen the graphs that = the rod's fastness or slowness? Collin ------=_NextPart_000_06F4_01BF6066.2B660460-- from Jon.Beckton@asml.nl Mon Jan 17 02:09:50 2000 Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:09:44 +0100 (MET) Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:09:34 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Rod varnishing Terry Kirkpatrick wrote: I'm thinking of trying an airbrush on the next rod I do. Unlike Model making, or fine art, where a $100 or $200 airbrush isrequired, themost expensive part of airbrushing a rod would be the propellent. Youhavethree choices. Cans of compressed gas, Bottles, like those used for soda dispensers Compressor , When airbrushes were used a lot in technical documentation, pre-PCdrawing programs, a lot of illustrators used tyre (tire) inner tubes,easy to inflate with your own compressor (you don't have to have thecompressor running all the time) or at the local filling station, cheapand totally silent in operation. The water trap is still necessary, ofcourse. When the pressure starts to fall, just step on the tube toincrease it, which takes a little practise, of course. And if you choosethe right capacity, more than enough to do the average rod I shouldthink! HTH Jon Beckton from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 17 07:43:29 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:34:09 -0600 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: endless belts This sounds very much like the belt material for the Unimat lathe, sold inthe early 1960's. I had been wondering where to find some of it. If there isa web site, I'd appreciate having it. Thanx, GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: endless belts I started using 3/32" diameter orange-go 85 polyurethane belting madebyFenner Drives in Manheim, PA. I've also used the 1/8" belting, andmaybe like it better. Haven't decided yet. You use a flame orsoldiering iron to melt the ends and make a really smoooooth endlessbelt that has some give, is a bit tacky, is soft and non marring andcleans up easily with water (If you use URAC or some such). Make sureyou get the 85 durometer, they also make harder stuff that just slips onthe binder and does not work. Brian from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 17 07:46:46 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:37:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Graphs was Re: Glue Paul Young's catalogs of the early 1950's had graphs shown for many of hisrods. The main thing I got from them, was they showed how the work loadwasapplied by his parabolic tapers. Of all PHY rods I have fished with, you canfeel the movement right down into the grip. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Graphs was Re: Glue Peter I have been told these graphs showed stress points. Rod length isacross the bottom and I don't know what is on the vertical axis. If thesegraphs can indicate the fastness or slowness of the rod I would also beinterested in learning about it.Ernie Harrison -----Original Message-----From: Peter Collin Date: Sunday, January 16, 2000 5:27 PMSubject: Re: Glue I have seen the graphs that accompany the tapers in the rodmakersarchives.Neither axis of the graphs are labelled. Can somebody tell me what theunits of measurement each axis is? How my we interpret the graph lineforagiven taper, relative to the rod's fastness or slowness? Peter Collin from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 17 08:08:17 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Terrence You are right about the edges - you can slide the depth gauge aloneand thereshould be no change plus you have two sides to work with - I have anumber of calipersboth expensive and the cheap ones for students - they all work fine forthis - This isthe easiest wayway of checking your depth gauge and planing strips is the rough way -less variables.Remember,if you got the good depth gauge and calipers they are probably made by acompany that isISO-9001 certified. Planing strips is a viable double check but I doubt if mostpeople's stripsare good enough to calibrate their depth gauge from. With strips you more likely to havethe problemswith edges andsuch than with a machines caliper unless you do bad things with it. Chris On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:38:19 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: this will work if the edges of the caliper are very sharp but they are not.Seems arough way ofchecking a $100 digital depth gauge.The easiest way would be to plane a piece of bamboo and compare thethickness of thecane and thethe reading on the depth gauge at the same station. Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of thedepthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it worksand itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using theplaningform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the twojawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need toexperiment withways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times widthopened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and .087on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have picturesand adiagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpass the basicinformationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter way ofcheckingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from mark_lang@tnb.com Mon Jan 17 08:34:46 2000 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:35:27 -0600 Subject: Re: endless belts Harry, pair of sockswith a safety pin when you take then off then they will either come backto you as amatching set or get lost together. (It really works) Mark Harry Boyd 01/16/00 05:32PM >>>Reed,If you and Terry need any help teaching the class on how to makethingsdisappear in the shop, just let me know. I seem to be a real expert. Ilooked home.They were right under my nose the whole time. One thing I have learned isthatit does NOT help to yell and scream accusing SWMBO of moving the thingyou putdown just a minute before. In fact, that makes things worse -- muchworse. Myshop is tiny, 7x14, and it is terribly uncomfortable when you have to sleepoutthere with the cat and the missing stuff.I usually don't misplace those things I use all the time. What I can'tfind is that thing I put down while thinking, "I'll put this right here..... soI'll be sure to remember where it is when I need it".You know the gremlin that eats socks in the clothes dryer? I think helikes reel seat parts as well. Harry reed curry wrote: Terry,Definitely one of the best posts in a long time, it brings up animportant, but seldom mentioned, point in rodmaking. Novices inshopworkprobably don't know how to misplace something as effectively andpermanently as you or I. from cotner@novagate.com Mon Jan 17 08:40:55 2000 Subject: Test from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Jan 17 08:50:59 2000 Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update I recently wanted to check the accuracy of my calipers and though of usingasparkplug gap gauge -- one of those collections of thin metal strips, eachmarked with its thickness in .001's. Does anyone know if these areaccurateenough to provide a good test? Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Chris,I use .115. It works well for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of thedepthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it works anditreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using theplaningform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the twojawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need to experimentwithways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times widthopened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and .087on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have picturesand a diagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpassthe basic informationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter way of checkingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from leroyt@involved.com Mon Jan 17 08:58:12 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 06:55:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01BF60B9.BE6E9E40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BF60B9.BE6E9E40 Leroy....... ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BF60B9.BE6E9E40 =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00C=00h=00r=00i=00s=00,=00&=00n=00b=00s=00=p=00;=00 =00S=00o=00u=00n=00d=00s=00 =00t=00o=00=00g=00o=00o=00d=00 ==00t=00o=00 =00b=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00t=00r=00u=00e=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00W=00i=00l=00l=00 ==00g=00i=00v=00e=00 =00i=00t=00 =00a=00 =00t=00r=00y=00.=00 ==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00L=00e=00r=00o=00y=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00=.=00.=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00------ =_NextPart_000_008F_01BF60B9.BE6E9E40-- from d_price@global2000.net Mon Jan 17 09:46:31 2000 KAA14037 Subject: Calibration of Depth Gauge Hello All,To me the easiest and most logical way to calibrate is to measure 6planned and scraped strips bound together and measured at a knownstation. Then reset the depth gauge at half this number, notice that youare cutting any error in half. What counts in the end is having a numberto shoot for and ending up with it on a finished set of strips. Nothingelse matters, of course you will have to add or subtract for any gluingor scraping of glue when done to achieve the final dimensions on theblank. I plane then scrape with a hand held scraper blade down to thesurface of the forms, and this usually give consistent results. And Ialso do not add or subtract for glue or sanding off glue, seems to equalout when done building a blank. If you think about and understand thismethod you will realize that you don't need any calibration tools,except to measure a rodand will not worry if your standard or what not is accurate. If I knowthat my gauge is close I set my forms to a taper that I want, and setthe stations up so that the final passes are at the top end of theforms. This allows you to plane and scrape down to the surface of theforms at the bottom end of the forms with out much chance of goingundersized before you check and if necessary reset your gauge. Dave Price from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 17 09:59:50 2000 Subject: Salmon Rods Friends,I'm in the middle of planning an Alaska trip for this July andneed some rod help. Friends tells me I need both a six weight and aneight weight. There's been a little discussion of this topic on thelist lately, but this is new ground for me. The heaviest rods I've madeare 5 weights, and I have several of those I like. Do you have anysuggestions for six and eight weight rods? I'd like to limit the lengthto 8 feet (maybe 8.5), and prefer 3 piece rods. Guess I'm trying to saythat I want some salmon rod suggestions that don't weight half a ton. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from harry37@epix.net Mon Jan 17 10:29:54 2000 LAA00028 Subject: Missouri With all apologies for this not concerning rodbuilding-- Is there anyone who can give me insight into fishing opportunities inMissouri? Please contact off list. Thanks. Greg from leroyt@involved.com Mon Jan 17 10:42:21 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:39:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge How and what do you use to do the initial form settings with? Anexample,I have just finished a 5wt and next rod will be an 9wt?Leroy....... from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 17 12:51:32 2000 Subject: Re: endless belts Reed and Terry,I'd try to help you both out but I've been trying to find a butt cap I laid down last week. No, the rod shop ain't no neater. As soon as I find the butt cap I'll let you know how I found it.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 17 12:51:42 2000 Subject: Re: Glue Peter,The vertical axis can be 2 things, i.e., thousands of inch for diameter or stress in values I've forgotten. Just remember the higher the value onthe stress graph the more the rod bends at that point. I tend to use the stress graphs for taper comparison only and rely on my experience (some good,some bad) to read the thickness vs. length graphs to predict rod action.Have fun.Regards,Hank. from penr0295@bendnet.com Mon Jan 17 13:51:13 2000 LAA71862 Subject: Old Montague 7 piece? http://www.valleybronze.com/ebrod01.jpg A casting instructor friend of mine had a student who had me re-wrap aguideand re-glue some ferrules on the 7 piece rod pictured at the url above. Therod also has an additional 8th piece which I think converts the rod into a 6piece casting rod. Anyway, the hardware is all cheap plated/extruded stuff. No maker's markorstamp of any kind on the rod. Wraps are red with a light yellow orpossiblywhite (transparent) tipping. Tip top is of an old straight ring type.Handle is wrapped in cork sheet. Snake guides have very crudely finishedfeet. I would be curious to know what it is, despite its being averycheaply made rod. The owner said that the person he bought it fromsaid itwas Montague. Tom Penrose from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 17 14:50:43 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:51:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Old Montague 7 piece? Yep, I'd say Montague too, and it's pretty old. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Old Montague 7 piece? http://www.valleybronze.com/ebrod01.jpg A casting instructor friend of mine had a student who had me re-wrap aguideand re-glue some ferrules on the 7 piece rod pictured at the url above.Therod also has an additional 8th piece which I think converts the rod into a6piece casting rod. Anyway, the hardware is all cheap plated/extruded stuff. No maker'smarkorstamp of any kind on the rod. Wraps are red with a light yellow orpossiblywhite (transparent) tipping. Tip top is of an old straight ring type.Handle is wrapped in cork sheet. Snake guides have very crudely finishedfeet. I would be curious to know what it is, despite its being a verycheaply made rod. The owner said that the person he bought it from saiditwas Montague. Tom Penrose from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jan 17 14:53:31 2000 Subject: Re: endless belts I used to put things in a safe place so knew I where they were but I seemto behaving a problem with short term memory.What I usually do now is leave it where I can see it and my wife tidies itawayand I blame her when I cannot find it!I have spent many a night before garbage pick up with a flashlight, justchecking.Terry FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Reed and Terry,I'd try to help you both out but I've been trying to find a butt cap Ilaid down last week. No, the rod shop ain't no neater. As soon as I findthebutt cap I'll let you know how I found it.Regards,Hank. from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jan 17 15:02:14 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge I have always worked in reverse to you, I set my forms with a depth micandthen bouble check and plane away to the top of the form and that is it. Toget a rod section to measure out the same on three flats with only a 60degvisual gauge to check the angle with is impossible, especially on thethickend!Terry Dave Price wrote: Hello All,To me the easiest and most logical way to calibrate is to measure 6planned and scraped strips bound together and measured at a knownstation. Then reset the depth gauge at half this number, notice that youare cutting any error in half. What counts in the end is having a numberto shoot for and ending up with it on a finished set of strips. Nothingelse matters, of course you will have to add or subtract for any gluingor scraping of glue when done to achieve the final dimensions on theblank. I plane then scrape with a hand held scraper blade down to thesurface of the forms, and this usually give consistent results. And Ialso do not add or subtract for glue or sanding off glue, seems to equalout when done building a blank. If you think about and understand thismethod you will realize that you don't need any calibration tools,except to measure a rodand will not worry if your standard or what not is accurate. If I knowthat my gauge is close I set my forms to a taper that I want, and setthe stations up so that the final passes are at the top end of theforms. This allows you to plane and scrape down to the surface of theforms at the bottom end of the forms with out much chance of goingundersized before you check and if necessary reset your gauge. Dave Price from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jan 17 15:03:17 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update I am not going to argue with that! leroy teeple wrote: ï from rhd360@maine.edu Mon Jan 17 15:21:03 2000 Level 310) via TCPwith SMTP ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:20:36 EST Subject: Re: Salmon Rods Well Hank I'm guessing there are as many answers to this question asanglers. Basically, I don't use a net. For large fish, like Alt. salmon all thefishinghere is catch and release so there is every reason to play a fish quicklyandrelease without harm. My preference is to hand tail salmon and basciallyifI'm alone I line the fish in. About half the time, more or less, I'msuccessful and tail the fish and get my fly back. About half the time thesalmon breaks off, which is fine. (Adult salmon have a huge tail, and as aresult it is very possible to grab them by the wrist, just above the tail. Ofcourse there is always the wild fish that doesn't cooperate, in which caseIjust try not to hurt the fish or myself.) If I'm fishing with a buddy, samedeal really. We hand tail or break them off, but never use a net. It's notreally necessary and hand tailing is more efficient. With large rods (Ihave11' and 14 ' spey rods), well the rods are just too heavy to hold on to therodand use a net. With 9' or less rods, it would be possible, but tailing is abit easier. With smaller salmon, grilse, it is much more difficult to tailthem, so I line them in more or less. Sometimes get the fly back,sometimesnot. With large trout and landlock salmon, I think it is actually easier to usethenet, and I keep meaning to take one along, but rarely do. So the typicalsenerio is it gets dark, the big fish start feeding, I hook a monster, try andrelease without a net, loose the #16 caddis and half my leader, and thentryand retie everything in the failing light. I need to find a fishing partnerwho likes carrying a net, or at least one who will convince me not to leavemine in the truck. --Bob. At 08:50 PM 1/14/00 -0500, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:To all,I understand the theory about playing the fish with the butt of the rod.One question, how do you bring 'em to the net without bending the tipseverely?Regards,Hank. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jan 17 15:24:18 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update I think Garrison used bamboo strips to set his forms.Was it Dickerson who said, "If rodmaking was as difficult a Garrisonmade it, therewould not be splitcane rods"?Imagine what Dickerson would say about todays batch makers?Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terrence You are right about the edges - you can slide the depth gauge aloneand thereshould be no change plus you have two sides to work with - I have anumber of calipersboth expensive and the cheap ones for students - they all work fine forthis - This isthe easiest wayway of checking your depth gauge and planing strips is the rough way -less variables.Remember,if you got the good depth gauge and calipers they are probably made by acompany thatis ISO-9001certified. Planing strips is a viable double check but I doubt if mostpeople's stripsare good enoughto calibrate their depth gauge from. With strips you more likely to havethe problemswith edges andsuch than with a machines caliper unless you do bad things with it. Chris On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:38:19 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: this will work if the edges of the caliper are very sharp but they arenot. Seems arough way ofchecking a $100 digital depth gauge.The easiest way would be to plane a piece of bamboo and compare thethickness of thecane and thethe reading on the depth gauge at the same station. Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles.Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of thedepthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it worksand itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from usingthe planingform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the twojawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need toexperiment withways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times widthopened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and.087 on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have picturesand adiagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpass the basicinformationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter wayof checkingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 17 15:30:13 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Terry Reading your quote - you just made my point - you are stilldoing it the Garrison method - I gave you a much simpler method. Chris On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:27:59 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: I think Garrison used bamboo strips to set his forms.Was it Dickerson who said, "If rodmaking was as difficult a Garrisonmade it, therewould not be splitcane rods"?Imagine what Dickerson would say about todays batch makers?Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terrence You are right about the edges - you can slide the depth gauge aloneand thereshould be no change plus you have two sides to work with - I have anumber of calipersboth expensive and the cheap ones for students - they all work fine forthis - This isthe easiest wayway of checking your depth gauge and planing strips is the rough way -less variables.Remember,if you got the good depth gauge and calipers they are probably made by acompany thatis ISO-9001certified. Planing strips is a viable double check but I doubt if mostpeople's stripsare good enoughto calibrate their depth gauge from. With strips you more likely to havethe problemswith edges andsuch than with a machines caliper unless you do bad things with it. Chris On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:38:19 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: this will work if the edges of the caliper are very sharp but they arenot. Seems arough way ofchecking a $100 digital depth gauge.The easiest way would be to plane a piece of bamboo and compare thethickness of thecane and thethe reading on the depth gauge at the same station. Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles.Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration ofthe depthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it worksand itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from usingthe planingform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between thetwo jawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need toexperiment withways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) timeswidth opened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and.087 on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have picturesand adiagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpass thebasic informationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter wayof checkingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan 17 15:38:17 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:35:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Yeah, but think about it for a second... an old Garrison sells for $5000 andUP... I mean WAY UP!!! A nice Dickerson can be had for a lot less... Just a point to ponder... Bob (had to start a ruckus) N. :^) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update I think Garrison used bamboo strips to set his forms.Was it Dickerson who said, "If rodmaking was as difficult a Garrisonmadeit, there would not be splitcane rods"?Imagine what Dickerson would say about todays batch makers?Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terrence You are right about the edges - you can slide the depth gaugealone and thereshould be no change plus you have two sides to work with - I have anumber of calipersboth expensive and the cheap ones for students - they all work fine forthis - This is the easiest wayway of checking your depth gauge and planing strips is the rough way -less variables. Remember,if you got the good depth gauge and calipers they are probably made by acompany that is ISO-9001certified. Planing strips is a viable double check but I doubt if mostpeople's strips are good enoughto calibrate their depth gauge from. With strips you more likely to havethe problems with edges andsuch than with a machines caliper unless you do bad things with it. Chris On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:38:19 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: this will work if the edges of the caliper are very sharp but they arenot. Seems a rough way ofchecking a $100 digital depth gauge.The easiest way would be to plane a piece of bamboo and compare thethickness of the cane and thethe reading on the depth gauge at the same station. Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles.Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration ofthe depthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it worksand itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from usingthe planingform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between thetwo jawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need toexperiment withways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) timeswidth opened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and.087 on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I havepictures and a diagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpass the basic informationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It isreally better way of checkingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price isright! Chris from brookie@frii.com Mon Jan 17 15:44:57 2000 Subject: old Garrison price (was, something else) At 03:36 PM 1/17/2000 -0600, you wrote:Yeah, but think about it for a second... an old Garrison sells had for a lot less... Just a point to ponder... Bob (had to start a ruckus) N. :^) Enough of this. I hereby proclaim that *I* shall be in possession of aGarrison, an old one at that, during my lifetime. I shall retire early andbe comfortably well off. Ok, so that might take several Garrisons. I'mworking on it.... from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 17 16:12:49 2000 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules now- and guides rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu To all,I've been using Birchwood Casey's Brass Black for my bluing. I varnish after polishing.Hank. from dhaftel@att.com Mon Jan 17 16:26:53 2000 RAA17931 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1sol2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Bluing Ferrules now- and guides Hank, Does it produce a uniform color on the ferrules? A friend told me that itdoesn't cover evenly. Dennis -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bluing Ferrules now- and guides To all,I've been using Birchwood Casey's Brass Black for my bluing. I varnish after polishing.Hank. from Fishnabug@aol.com Mon Jan 17 18:00:35 2000 Subject: Varnish Removal I'm refinishing a Wright & McGill - Grainger 8'6" 3/2 "Stream and Lake" of which I'll post the taper later. The question I have is; Does any one have a good, safe way to remove old varnish? David Maxey from d_price@global2000.net Mon Jan 17 18:21:11 2000 TAA16542 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge Sorry Terence you lost me with this one, or maybe I lost you with myoriginal post. This could be the case because it does not seem likeChris got it ether. Tony got it ( he emailed me) Dave Price TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: I have always worked in reverse to you, I set my forms with a depth micandthen bouble check and plane away to the top of the form and that is it. Toget a rod section to measure out the same on three flats with only a60degvisual gauge to check the angle with is impossible, especially on thethickend!Terry Dave Price wrote: Hello All,To me the easiest and most logical way to calibrate is to measure 6planned and scraped strips bound together and measured at a knownstation. Then reset the depth gauge at half this number, notice that youare cutting any error in half. What counts in the end is having a numberto shoot for and ending up with it on a finished set of strips. Nothingelse matters, of course you will have to add or subtract for any gluingor scraping of glue when done to achieve the final dimensions on theblank. I plane then scrape with a hand held scraper blade down to thesurface of the forms, and this usually give consistent results. And Ialso do not add or subtract for glue or sanding off glue, seems to equalout when done building a blank. If you think about and understand thismethod you will realize that you don't need any calibration tools,except to measure a rodand will not worry if your standard or what not is accurate. If I knowthat my gauge is close I set my forms to a taper that I want, and setthe stations up so that the final passes are at the top end of theforms. This allows you to plane and scrape down to the surface of theforms at the bottom end of the forms with out much chance of goingundersized before you check and if necessary reset your gauge. Dave Price from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Jan 17 18:50:35 2000 Subject: Re: endless belts Harry and Mark, There is no gremlin. Socks are the larval form of coathangers :>) Mark Cole from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 17 19:20:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:11:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Removal I use "Citristrip", from the DIY stores. It contains no methyl chloride, andis as safe as most soap and water. Use it carefully around the wraps, andittakes old varnish off really well. I like to do the cane to twoapplications, getting little on the wraps, the first time. Wipe this offwith paper towels. The remaining varnish will become more visible now, and a second coatingwill soften the remainder, pretty well. I use a Q-tip to clean down thewraps. It's a little tedious, but it works, when you want to save theoriginal wraps. Any remaining varnish on the cane, comes off easily withtheback of an X-Acto blade as a scraper. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varnish Removal I'm refinishing a Wright & McGill - Grainger 8'6" 3/2 "Stream andLake"of which I'll post the taper later. The question I have is; Does any onehavea good, safe way to remove old varnish? David Maxey from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jan 17 20:03:56 2000 Subject: Re: Salmon Rods In a message dated 1/17/0 4:02:18 PM, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Harry - I usually recommend the Garrison 212E as a 6 weight, but forwhere you are going, I would go for all the marbles and build a Para 15 type rod. Wayne's version on page 234 of his book would do you just fine.The 8 weight is another story. If you can see your way to an 8'9" rod, I would try the Garrison 221, an elegant caster that displays Garrison'sgenius check out my article in issue 51 of TPF, and the Alosa taper in issue 32. It's supposed to be a 6 weight, but will easily handle an 8. Convert it to a 3 piece, and modify the construction a bit. I think I would build it as a scalloped hollow built as described, but increase the wall thickness a bit, and build the tip solid. If this interests you, contact me off line and we can work out the details. -- Tom from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jan 17 21:32:15 2000 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules In a message dated 01/16/2000 11:08:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Harry,If the black finish can be wiped off, after you oxidizeyour ferrules, you're leaving them in the solution too long. TheOxidizing solution doesn't put a coating on the nickel silver, itcolors it. Unless you leave it in the solution too long, then it willstart to etch the metal surface and leave a black film on the metalthat will wipe off with a tissue. I think you are trying to get too dark a finish with this solution.It doesn't come out "Black" it is a translucent blue/black thatwill be darker after you clear coat the ferrule. Try leaving the ferrule in for less time and see if what I'm saying isn't true. Dave L. from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jan 17 21:42:38 2000 Subject: Re: Varnish Removal Hi, I picked up an old bamboo rod with a lot of overcoats of varnish andI used the spray can of citristrip. Two applications and it was cleanand no nasty chemicals. I talked with a friend who does a lot of refinishing and he prefers toscrape the old varnish off and is carefull not to remove the writing from the shaft. Actually he describe a long process to strip the varnish from over the writing. I have no idea what the citristrip will do to the writing on the shaft buthopefully someone here can answer that. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varnish Removal I'm refinishing a Wright & McGill - Grainger 8'6" 3/2 "Stream andLake"of which I'll post the taper later. The question I have is; Does any onehavea good, safe way to remove old varnish? David Maxey from martinjensen@home.com Mon Jan 17 21:59:54 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:59:51 -0800 Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Absolutely not!!! Get a steel ball from a bearing if you want to calibrate acaliper. Use a feeler gauge. Use anything precision.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update I recently wanted to check the accuracy of my calipers and though of usingasparkplug gap gauge -- one of those collections of thin metal strips, eachmarked with its thickness in .001's. Does anyone know if these areaccurateenough to provide a good test? Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Chris,I use .115. It works well for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of thedepthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it works anditreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using theplaningform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the twojawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need to experimentwithways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times widthopened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and .087on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I have picturesand a diagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought I wouldpassthe basic informationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It is reallybetter way of checkingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price is right! Chris from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Jan 17 22:09:00 2000 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: endless belts I've used a material called "Tygon" tubing which is some type of plasticsolid tubing for drive belts other than on a Garrison Binder. It can be cutand butt welded with heat to make any length belt and is available in anumber of different diameters. I suspect it's similar to what Briandescribes.Good stuff!!Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: endless belts I started using 3/32" diameter orange-go 85 polyurethane belting madebyFenner Drives in Manheim, PA. I've also used the 1/8" belting, andmaybe like it better. Haven't decided yet. You use a flame orsoldiering iron to melt the ends and make a really smoooooth endlessbelt that has some give, is a bit tacky, is soft and non marring andcleans up easily with water (If you use URAC or some such). Make sureyou get the 85 durometer, they also make harder stuff that just slips onthe binder and does not work. Brian from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jan 18 07:17:20 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:08:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Removal Citristrip will take off most anything ! You must mask off decals, writing,etc.. It's preferable to use drafting masking tape, as it's less sticky, andwon't pull off decals. Still, I rub down just the edges of the tape, so thetape doesn't adhere to the surface where the decal is. Using the back edgeof a #11 X-Acto blade, you gently fade the edges of the old varnish intothebare cane, leaving only the main decal, or writing, but no ridge. After the second application of the Citristrip, there's normally only spotsof the old varnish left, and by highlighting these small areas can becleaned off, with the back of the blade easily. This stripper will remove every bit of the old color preserver, so gentlecare must be used, or the wraps will come off. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Varnish Removal Hi, I picked up an old bamboo rod with a lot of overcoats of varnish andI used the spray can of citristrip. Two applications and it was cleanand no nasty chemicals. I talked with a friend who does a lot of refinishing and he prefers toscrape the old varnish off and is carefull not to remove the writing from the shaft. Actually he describe a long process to strip the varnish from over the writing. I have no idea what the citristrip will do to the writing on the shaft buthopefully someone here can answer that. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 6:59 PMSubject: Varnish Removal I'm refinishing a Wright & McGill - Grainger 8'6" 3/2 "Stream andLake"of which I'll post the taper later. The question I have is; Does any onehavea good, safe way to remove old varnish? David Maxey from harry37@epix.net Tue Jan 18 08:37:01 2000 JAA04898 Subject: polishing varnish To the list-- Could anyone give me their favorite product for polishing varnishes anda source? I'd like to try and polish out an old rod with a bad finishbefore I strip it--I have an old Brownell's catalog and can only findmetal polishes, unless I'm looking in the wrong places. Would appreciate any leads anyone could offer and I'll try to ignore anycommercials! Thanks Greg from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 09:07:43 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Time estimates I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'm goingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting then itactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm (for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan 18 09:15:23 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Varnish Removal Hi George, I'm going to try the Citristrip... I have a #35 Heddon that the varnishmelted but otherwise it is a primo rod... I tried Formbys withoutsatisfactory success and it's quite toxic. I wasn't warned about thelettering and so it got a bit smudged. One problem I encountered is thatwhen the rod dried/cured after using the Formbys, it is still tacky and notall the varnish was removed. Also, the can recommended using steel woolandparticles of the steel wool got imbedded into the remaining varnish... Does Citristrip remove all the varnish? Thanks, Darrell-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Varnish Removal I use "Citristrip", from the DIY stores. It contains no methyl chloride, andis as safe as most soap and water. Use it carefully around the wraps, andittakes old varnish off really well. I like to do the cane to twoapplications, getting little on the wraps, the first time. Wipe this offwith paper towels. The remaining varnish will become more visible now, and a second coatingwill soften the remainder, pretty well. I use a Q-tip to clean down thewraps. It's a little tedious, but it works, when you want to save theoriginal wraps. Any remaining varnish on the cane, comes off easily withtheback of an X-Acto blade as a scraper. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varnish Removal I'm refinishing a Wright & McGill - Grainger 8'6" 3/2 "Stream andLake"of which I'll post the taper later. The question I have is; Does any onehavea good, safe way to remove old varnish? David Maxey from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jan 18 09:24:21 2000 Subject: Re: polishing varnish Greg- There is a 3M automotive product called Perfect-it 2 that workswell. I got it at a local paint store that caters to auto body shops. It works fine alone, but if you have a really rough surface you might try wet sandingfirst with 2000 grit paper. The nice thing about buying stuff with a picture of a car on the bottle is that you get a lifetime supply for the same price as what an ounce would cost if there was a picture of a fly fisherman on the bottle. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan 18 10:13:20 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Time estimates "Rodmakers (E-mail)" How about amortizing the hours spent reading the RM List? -----Original Message----- Subject: Time estimates I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'm goingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting then itactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm (for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from dati@selway.umt.edu Tue Jan 18 10:39:21 2000 09:39:17 -0700 Subject: binding cord Hello all, I just finished my binder last night. Yet, I really don't know what touse for the binding string. I have a belt that works fine but as far asstring, what does everyone else use? Thanks for the information. Darin Law from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Jan 18 10:46:38 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Time estimates Richard,I read about this fellow who hand planed bamboo rods for a living. Helaughed at the people who claimed that the reason they charged so muchforbamboo rods was the time it took to plane them. He said he could plane 12rods a day and have them ready for gluing.Ernie Harrison Richard wrote:I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. Richard from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jan 18 11:01:32 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates He must have been a fisherman, because all fishermen lie.Steve Richard,I read about this fellow who hand planed bamboo rods for a living. Helaughed at the people who claimed that the reason they charged so muchforbamboo rods was the time it took to plane them. He said he could plane12rods a day and have them ready for gluing.Ernie Harrison Richard wrote:I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone didit.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. Richard from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 18 11:09:20 2000 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:09:09 -0800 Subject: Re: binding cord Darin J Law wrote: Hello all, I just finished my binder last night. Yet, I really don't know what touse for the binding string. I have a belt that works fine but as far asstring, what does everyone else use? Darin,Most folks use glace cotton thread but it isn't often availablelocally. You can get it from Goldenwitch (www.goldenwitch.com). Othersofus use stuff we can get at Walmart. I know one lister who uses 100%cottonembroidery yarn. It's about $3 for a big ball, but you have to spool ityourself. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jan 18 12:04:12 2000 9:53:54 PST Subject: RE: Old Montague 7 piece? I think it looks more like a Horrocks Ibbotsen. Someone once told me that the purpose for these vest pocket rods was to conceal them during Sunday morning service in an attempt to mask the brethren's true intentions foruse of a Sunday afternoon. I mean carrying a fly rod to "Sunday go to meetin' " would not be acceptable protocol around the turn of the century. However, nowadays I bet Harry Boyd keeps a flyrod under his pulpit and may evenuse it as a sermon prop. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu __________________________________________________________________________http://www.valleybronze.com/ebrod01.jpg A casting instructor friend of mine had a student who had me re-wrap aguideand re-glue some ferrules on the 7 piece rod pictured at the url above. Therod also has an additional 8th piece which I think converts the rod into a 6piece casting rod. Anyway, the hardware is all cheap plated/extruded stuff. No maker's markorstamp of any kind on the rod. Wraps are red with a light yellow orpossiblywhite (transparent) tipping. Tip top is of an old straight ring type.Handle is wrapped in cork sheet. Snake guides have very crudely finishedfeet. I would be curious to know what it is, despite its being a verycheaply made rod. The owner said that the person he bought it from said itwas Montague. Tom Penrose -------- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 12:13:35 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, estimates Richard,I read about this fellow who hand planed bamboo rods for a living. Helaughed at the people who claimed that the reason theycharged so much forbamboo rods was the time it took to plane them. He said hecould plane 12rods a day and have them ready for gluing.Ernie Harrison 12 rods per day???? Ernie, I suddenly feel lazy. Actually, maybe he callsthe splines "rods." Richard from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 18 12:15:56 2000 Subject: Re: Old Montague 7 piece? I also heard that they were also called "Traveling Salesman Rods". Theycouldcarry them in their traveling case so it would be handy if the chance tofishcame up. I believe I would go along with the H.I.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I think it looks more like a Horrocks Ibbotsen. Someone once told methatthe purpose for these vest pocket rods was to conceal them duringSundaymorning service in an attempt to mask the brethren's true intentions foruseof a Sunday afternoon. I mean carrying a fly rod to "Sunday go to meetin'"would not be acceptable protocol around the turn of the century. However,nowadays I bet Harry Boyd keeps a flyrod under his pulpit and may evenuse itas a sermon prop. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu __________________________________________________________________________http://www.valleybronze.com/ebrod01.jpg A casting instructor friend of mine had a student who had me re-wrap aguideand re-glue some ferrules on the 7 piece rod pictured at the url above. Therod also has an additional 8th piece which I think converts the rod into a6piece casting rod. Anyway, the hardware is all cheap plated/extruded stuff. No maker'smark orstamp of any kind on the rod. Wraps are red with a light yellow orpossiblywhite (transparent) tipping. Tip top is of an old straight ring type.Handle is wrapped in cork sheet. Snake guides have very crudely finishedfeet. I would be curious to know what it is, despite its being a verycheaply made rod. The owner said that the person he bought it from saiditwas Montague. Tom Penrose -------- from hartzell@easystreet.com Tue Jan 18 12:18:07 2000 KAA12785; Subject: Re: polishing varnish Greg: I use Dupont #7 compound to cut down irregularities on varnish.This is a cutting, not a polishing compound and can be found in auto partsretail stores. For polishing Meguiars is very good. I use #17 polishingcompound which brings the varnish up to a nice intermediate finish. It toocan be found in auoto parts stores.Ed Hartzell Greg Kuntz wrote: To the list-- Could anyone give me their favorite product for polishing varnishes anda source? I'd like to try and polish out an old rod with a bad finishbefore I strip it--I have an old Brownell's catalog and can only findmetal polishes, unless I'm looking in the wrong places. Would appreciate any leads anyone could offer and I'll try to ignore anycommercials! Thanks Greg from Davidhray1@aol.com Tue Jan 18 12:26:51 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates Let's see 12 rods a day with 12 pieces to each rod = 144 splines. With a 12 hour day that would be one spline every 5 minutes. In an 8 hour day that would be one spline every 3 1/3 minutes. I would like to see that evenwith a power hand planer. David H. Ray from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Jan 18 13:43:49 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Time estimates David and Richard,That does seem a bit much. Perhaps he said 12 strips a day. Fortyminutes per strip does seem more reasonable. That would be one rod perday have sold all my fishing books so chances are slim and none that I can findit again.Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Time estimates Let's see 12 rods a day with 12 pieces to each rod = 144 splines. With a12hour day that would be one spline every 5 minutes. In an 8 hour day thatwould be one spline every 3 1/3 minutes. I would like to see that evenwithapower hand planer. David H. Ray from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Jan 18 14:15:03 2000 Subject: Re: Old Montague 7 piece? Well I'm not too sure there's a problem. I recall reading in NormanMaclean's book "A River Runs Through It" that in his family there was noclear line between religion and flyfishing.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Old Montague 7 piece? I think it looks more like a Horrocks Ibbotsen. Someone once told methatthe purpose for these vest pocket rods was to conceal them duringSundaymorning service in an attempt to mask the brethren's true intentions foruseof a Sunday afternoon. I mean carrying a fly rod to "Sunday go to meetin'"would not be acceptable protocol around the turn of the century. However,nowadays I bet Harry Boyd keeps a flyrod under his pulpit and may evenuseitas a sermon prop. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu __________________________________________________________________________http://www.valleybronze.com/ebrod01.jpg A casting instructor friend of mine had a student who had me re-wrap aguideand re-glue some ferrules on the 7 piece rod pictured at the url above.Therod also has an additional 8th piece which I think converts the rod into a6piece casting rod. Anyway, the hardware is all cheap plated/extruded stuff. No maker'smarkorstamp of any kind on the rod. Wraps are red with a light yellow orpossiblywhite (transparent) tipping. Tip top is of an old straight ring type.Handle is wrapped in cork sheet. Snake guides have very crudely finishedfeet. I would be curious to know what it is, despite its being a verycheaply made rod. The owner said that the person he bought it from saiditwas Montague. Tom Penrose -------- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 18 14:28:31 2000 0800 Subject: Re: Old Montague 7 piece? CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I think it looks more like a Horrocks Ibbotsen. Someone once told methatthe purpose for these vest pocket rods was to conceal them duringSundaymorning service in an attempt to mask the brethren's true intentions foruseof a Sunday afternoon. I mean carrying a fly rod to "Sunday go to meetin'"would not be acceptable protocol around the turn of the century. However,nowadays I bet Harry Boyd keeps a flyrod under his pulpit and may evenuse itas a sermon prop. No Chris,There's not one under the pulpit. It stays in the Church Office, readyto grab at a moment's notice. Anyone want to go fishing? Seems to meit's abouttime for an SRG planning meeting! Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Jan 18 15:06:49 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Bob,Garrison gained posthumous fame because of the Garrison Carmichael bookand hedid not even dream of getting get the sort of money that his rods arefetchingnow.Look at one of his rods and compare it to a modern rod. Who would offer arodtoday with crude aluminium reel seat fittings? The value put on Garrison'srodshas nothing to do with quality or performance.Terry Bob Nunley wrote: Yeah, but think about it for a second... an old Garrison sells for $5000 andUP... I mean WAY UP!!! A nice Dickerson can be had for a lot less... Just a point to ponder... Bob (had to start a ruckus) N. :^) -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, January 17, 2000 3:26 PMSubject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update I think Garrison used bamboo strips to set his forms.Was it Dickerson who said, "If rodmaking was as difficult a Garrisonmadeit, there would not be splitcane rods"?Imagine what Dickerson would say about todays batch makers?Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terrence You are right about the edges - you can slide the depth gaugealone and thereshould be no change plus you have two sides to work with - I have anumber of calipersboth expensive and the cheap ones for students - they all work fineforthis - This is the easiest wayway of checking your depth gauge and planing strips is the rough way -less variables. Remember,if you got the good depth gauge and calipers they are probably made byacompany that is ISO-9001certified. Planing strips is a viable double check but I doubt if mostpeople's strips are good enoughto calibrate their depth gauge from. With strips you more likely tohavethe problems with edges andsuch than with a machines caliper unless you do bad things with it. Chris On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:38:19 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: this will work if the edges of the caliper are very sharp but they arenot. Seems a rough way ofchecking a $100 digital depth gauge.The easiest way would be to plane a piece of bamboo and compare thethickness of the cane and thethe reading on the depth gauge at the same station. Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles.Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration ofthe depthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if itworksand itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from usingthe planingform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between thetwo jawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need toexperiment withways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) timeswidth opened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and.087 on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I havepictures and a diagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought Iwouldpass the basic informationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It isreally better way of checkingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price isright! Chris from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 18 15:14:44 2000 Subject: stripping guides Can anyone tell me how stripping guides are sized? I have seen themlisted as a # value e.g. #8 and I have seen them listed as a measurementvalue e.g. 8mm . Are they one and the same or is there some sort ofconversion factor between the two? Shawn from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Jan 18 15:25:22 2000 Subject: Re: Calibration of Depth Gauge - update Chris,I used to set my forms with a depth mic and plane to the steel. I checkednothing afterdouble checking theforms. There was no reason to keep checking my depth mic which is amicrometer type, theyjust do not wearout.I do not use a plane or steel planing forms any more, thank goodness!Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terry Reading your quote - you just made my point - you are stilldoing it the Garrison method - I gave you a much simpler method. Chris On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:27:59 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: I think Garrison used bamboo strips to set his forms.Was it Dickerson who said, "If rodmaking was as difficult a Garrisonmade it, therewould not be splitcane rods"?Imagine what Dickerson would say about todays batch makers?Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terrence You are right about the edges - you can slide the depth gaugealone andthereshould be no change plus you have two sides to work with - I have anumber ofcalipersboth expensive and the cheap ones for students - they all work fine is the easiest wayway of checking your depth gauge and planing strips is the rough way -lessvariables. Remember,if you got the good depth gauge and calipers they are probably made bya companythat is ISO-9001certified. Planing strips is a viable double check but I doubt if mostpeople'sstrips are good enoughto calibrate their depth gauge from. With strips you more likely tohave theproblems with edges andsuch than with a machines caliper unless you do bad things with it. Chris On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:38:19 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: this will work if the edges of the caliper are very sharp but they arenot. Seems arough way ofchecking a $100 digital depth gauge.The easiest way would be to plane a piece of bamboo and compare thethickness ofthe cane and thethe reading on the depth gauge at the same station. Chris Bogart wrote: In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles.Oneof them is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration ofthe depthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if itworks and itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from usingthe planingform and rods. Here it is: Use the Dial Caliper. Zeroize the Dial Caliper Open the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between thetwo jawsof the Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need toexperiment withways to position the dial caliper to do this. The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) timeswidth opened. The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and.087 on thedial. Play with this in the shop and give me feed back. I havepictures and adiagramto show the math and such to update the article but I thought Iwould pass thebasic informationalong since a number of rodmakers had an interest in this. It isreally betterway of checkingthan the so-called "standards" that I have seen and the price isright! Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Jan 18 15:30:33 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates Richard,the idea is to make it sound really hard so that the newbies have to pay forlessons!Terry Richard Nantel wrote: I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jan 18 17:13:31 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:13:49 -0600 Subject: Re: stripping guides If you get a dependable answer to this question, it will be a boon for manyof us ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: stripping guides Can anyone tell me how stripping guides are sized? I have seen themlisted as a # value e.g. #8 and I have seen them listed as a measurementvalue e.g. 8mm . Are they one and the same or is there some sort ofconversion factor between the two? Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jan 18 17:20:57 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:21:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Old Montague 7 piece? I was going by the one stepped down female ferrule, that I could see. Ihavea number of both H-I, and Monty rods, and never have found an H-I with astepped down female. I have another multi piece H-I, with only a tip, and the butt sections. Whatmakes it unusual, is it is spiral wrapped with about .030" spacing, theentire length ! I've never even heard of such. The "Silkien" I've read wascompletely tight wrapped for its total length. This is just like adecorative wrap. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Old Montague 7 piece? I think it looks more like a Horrocks Ibbotsen. Someone once told methatthe purpose for these vest pocket rods was to conceal them duringSundaymorning service in an attempt to mask the brethren's true intentions foruseof a Sunday afternoon. I mean carrying a fly rod to "Sunday go to meetin'"would not be acceptable protocol around the turn of the century. However,nowadays I bet Harry Boyd keeps a flyrod under his pulpit and may evenuseitas a sermon prop. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu __________________________________________________________________________http://www.valleybronze.com/ebrod01.jpg A casting instructor friend of mine had a student who had me re-wrap aguideand re-glue some ferrules on the 7 piece rod pictured at the url above.Therod also has an additional 8th piece which I think converts the rod into a6piece casting rod. Anyway, the hardware is all cheap plated/extruded stuff. No maker'smarkorstamp of any kind on the rod. Wraps are red with a light yellow orpossiblywhite (transparent) tipping. Tip top is of an old straight ring type.Handle is wrapped in cork sheet. Snake guides have very crudely finishedfeet. I would be curious to know what it is, despite its being a verycheaply made rod. The owner said that the person he bought it from saiditwas Montague. Tom Penrose -------- from dellc@nextdim.com Tue Jan 18 17:50:30 2000 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Time estimates Your estimates are right in line with what I found when I logged the timeonmy 5th rod and again on my 10th rod and that is all hand planing.DellDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: Time estimates I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 18 18:15:30 2000 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:14:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Time estimates Wow, had I known we were in a race I would have worn my Nikes!! Hey ,I'vegotan idea!! If we built rods out of that spiffy new "graphite"stuff I bet wecould pump rods out even faster!! Sorry to sound cheeky, but what is wrongwith taking your time,enjoying time well spent building a rod? I read once(I'm not sure who said it,think it was Mike Clark) "By the time a rod goesoutthe door, I've spent a lot of time with it. I know every piece of it."and Iagree with that. I'm sure there are people who can pump rods out likecheapwhiskey, but I really think that they are depriving themselves ofsomethingmagic! Sorry if I've offended anyone,please forgive me! Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jan 18 18:19:05 2000 SMTPSVC;Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:18:29 -0800 Subject: Re: stripping guides Hopkins & Holloway Seymo stripping and ceramic single foot fly guide ringand tip top ring size is determined by measuring the outside of theceramicring in millimeters. Tip top tube size is measured in 64ths of an inch. Themeasurement/size of snake guides is a mystery to me. The Americanpattern1/0 snake guide is .271" outside height & .243" outside diameter. TheBritish pattern 1/0 is .190" outside height & .190" outside diameter. Howdothey come up with 1/0--beats me... Don S----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: stripping guides If you get a dependable answer to this question, it will be a boon for manyof us ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: stripping guides Can anyone tell me how stripping guides are sized? I have seen themlisted as a # value e.g. #8 and I have seen them listed as a measurementvalue e.g. 8mm . Are they one and the same or is there some sort ofconversion factor between the two? Shawn from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 18 18:34:38 2000 with ESMTP id ;Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:34:05 +0000 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Time estimates Cheap whiskey??? Now, wait just a minute! Shawn Pineo wrote: Wow, had I known we were in a race I would have worn my Nikes!! Hey,I've gotan idea!! If we built rods out of that spiffy new "graphite"stuff I bet wecould pump rods out even faster!! Sorry to sound cheeky, but what iswrongwith taking your time,enjoying time well spent building a rod? I readonce(I'm not sure who said it,think it was Mike Clark) "By the time a rod goesoutthe door, I've spent a lot of time with it. I know every piece of it."and Iagree with that. I'm sure there are people who can pump rods out likecheapwhiskey, but I really think that they are depriving themselves ofsomethingmagic! Sorry if I've offended anyone,please forgive me! Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too highanestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more dauntingthen itactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone didit.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours withoutthequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Jan 18 18:37:44 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: RE: Time estimates Shawn, the time estimates in my post were all at a relaxed rate, withsomenice classical music on the radio and a fine glass of port on the edge ofthe workbench. By no means was I suggesting that we should be trying toachieve speed in the craft so many of us turn to for relaxation. What I wassuggesting is that the usual 40-hour labour estimate usually quoted maymake beginners think this is much tougher than it really is, and may evenkeep some from jumping in and building a rod. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 6:09 PM Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail)Subject: Re: Time estimates Wow, had I known we were in a race I would have worn myNikes!! Hey ,I've gotan idea!! If we built rods out of that spiffy new"graphite"stuff I bet wecould pump rods out even faster!! Sorry to sound cheeky, butwhat is wrongwith taking your time,enjoying time well spent building arod? I read once(I'm not sure who said it,think it was Mike Clark) "By thetime a rod goes outthe door, I've spent a lot of time with it. I know everypiece of it."and Iagree with that. I'm sure there are people who can pump rodsout like cheapwhiskey, but I really think that they are deprivingthemselves of somethingmagic! Sorry if I've offended anyone,please forgive me! Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 18 18:51:21 2000 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:50:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Time estimates Richard,I see your point and was only having some fun! When I firststarted I was convinced by my research that it took a good 200-300 hoursofhard work to get the desired results. I now realize that it can beaccomplishedin less time and often I find myself fighting the urge to rush! You have toadmit though, you must have really been "in the groove". Maybe I shouldstartlistening to the music you listen to and I would get more work and lessadmiring done, besides I get too attached to thosecute little triangles of sweet smelling bamboo! They're my babies! ShawnRichard Nantel wrote: Shawn, the time estimates in my post were all at a relaxed rate, withsomenice classical music on the radio and a fine glass of port on the edge ofthe workbench. By no means was I suggesting that we should be trying toachieve speed in the craft so many of us turn to for relaxation. What Iwassuggesting is that the usual 40-hour labour estimate usually quoted maymake beginners think this is much tougher than it really is, and may evenkeep some from jumping in and building a rod. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 6:09 PM Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail)Subject: Re: Time estimates Wow, had I known we were in a race I would have worn myNikes!! Hey ,I've gotan idea!! If we built rods out of that spiffy new"graphite"stuff I bet wecould pump rods out even faster!! Sorry to sound cheeky, butwhat is wrongwith taking your time,enjoying time well spent building arod? I read once(I'm not sure who said it,think it was Mike Clark) "By thetime a rod goes outthe door, I've spent a lot of time with it. I know everypiece of it."and Iagree with that. I'm sure there are people who can pump rodsout like cheapwhiskey, but I really think that they are deprivingthemselves of somethingmagic! Sorry if I've offended anyone,please forgive me! Shawn from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 18 18:59:34 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:59:31 -0800 "nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: Time estimates Shaw / Richard What is that old adage: You can have any two of the following:Fast, Cheap, and Good. But not all three. I think it applies here. Chris On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:09:20 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote: Wow, had I known we were in a race I would have worn my Nikes!! Hey,I've gotan idea!! If we built rods out of that spiffy new "graphite"stuff I bet wecould pump rods out even faster!! Sorry to sound cheeky, but what iswrongwith taking your time,enjoying time well spent building a rod? I readonce(I'm not sure who said it,think it was Mike Clark) "By the time a rod goesoutthe door, I've spent a lot of time with it. I know every piece of it."and Iagree with that. I'm sure there are people who can pump rods out likecheapwhiskey, but I really think that they are depriving themselves ofsomethingmagic! Sorry if I've offended anyone,please forgive me! Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone didit.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours withoutthequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Jan 18 19:57:33 2000 "nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: Time estimates Being fast and good or faster and better is what is gained fromexperience.Surely you can make rods faster and better than when you first started ?Cheap fast and good rod are possible but not with a plane!Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Shaw / Richard What is that old adage: You can have any two of the following:Fast, Cheap, and Good. But not all three. I think it applies here. Chris On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:09:20 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote: Wow, had I known we were in a race I would have worn my Nikes!! Hey,I've gotan idea!! If we built rods out of that spiffy new "graphite"stuff I bet wecould pump rods out even faster!! Sorry to sound cheeky, but what iswrongwith taking your time,enjoying time well spent building a rod? I readonce(I'm not sure who said it,think it was Mike Clark) "By the time a rodgoes outthe door, I've spent a lot of time with it. I know every piece of it."and Iagree with that. I'm sure there are people who can pump rods out likecheapwhiskey, but I really think that they are depriving themselves ofsomethingmagic! Sorry if I've offended anyone,please forgive me! Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too highanestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more dauntingthen itactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone didit.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I thinkanexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours withoutthequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jan 18 20:06:11 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates Richard:I BELIEVE you were working "relaxed".If you were in a hurry, you'd be jammin' to Flatt & Scruggs and chasing itwith "firewater" :>)Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Time estimates Shawn, the time estimates in my post were all at a relaxed rate, withsomenice classical music on the radio and a fine glass of port on the edge ofthe workbench. from freaner@gte.net Tue Jan 18 20:28:22 2000 Subject: Fwd: Re: Time estimates I BELIEVE you were working "relaxed".If you were in a hurry, you'd be jammin' to Flatt & Scruggs and chasing itwith "firewater" :>) Shawn, the time estimates in my post were all at a relaxed rate, withsomenice classical music on the radio and a fine glass of port on the edge ofthe workbench. Oh, I don't know...Ravel's Bolero will get the pulse rate moving pretty good, also Beethoven's Fifth Symphony... Claude from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Jan 18 21:01:50 2000 Subject: Re: polishing varnish In a message dated 01/18/2000 9:41:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, harry37@epix.net writes: Brownell's also sells compounds for polishing gunstocks. That's were I get my rubbing compounds. Dave L. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jan 18 21:05:49 2000 E-Mail VirusWallNT); Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:48:11 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: binding cord Hi Darin,I use crocheting thread which is the white thread used tomake lace. It is considerably thicker than cotton and very strong. You canget it at any decent haberdashery store. Regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: binding cord Hello all, I just finished my binder last night. Yet, I really don't know what touse for the binding string. I have a belt that works fine but as far asstring, what does everyone else use? Thanks for the information. Darin Law from hartzell@easystreet.com Tue Jan 18 21:15:01 2000 TAA20811; Subject: Re: polishing varnish Pat I'll be at Corbett this spring. As far as I know it is full, but theperson tocontact is Marty Kartstetter atcanerods@bitterroot.net:Ed Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Ed are you going to Corbett Lake this spring and if so do you know if it isfull up oris there still room for more people? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Ed Hartzell[SMTP:hartzell@easystreet.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:19 AM Cc: rodmakers list servSubject: Re: polishing varnish Greg: I use Dupont #7 compound to cut down irregularities on varnish.This is a cutting, not a polishing compound and can be found in autopartsretail stores. For polishing Meguiars is very good. I use #17 polishingcompound which brings the varnish up to a nice intermediate finish. Ittoocan be found in auoto parts stores.Ed Hartzell Greg Kuntz wrote: To the list-- Could anyone give me their favorite product for polishing varnishesanda source? I'd like to try and polish out an old rod with a bad finishbefore I strip it--I have an old Brownell's catalog and can only findmetal polishes, unless I'm looking in the wrong places. Would appreciate any leads anyone could offer and I'll try to ignoreanycommercials! Thanks Greg from hartzell@easystreet.com Tue Jan 18 21:26:16 2000 TAA23353; Subject: Re: Time estimates Time depends on what you do If you make your own ferrules, reelseats,bagsand cases in addition to planing and gluing, you are in for about 90 hours.One famous rod maker (Gillum) said it took him two weeks (80 hours?) tofinisha rod.Ed Hartzell. Richard Nantel wrote: I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jan 18 21:43:08 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates Ernie His initials wouldn't happen to be G.G. would they? Paul----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Time estimates Richard,I read about this fellow who hand planed bamboo rods for a living. Helaughed at the people who claimed that the reason they charged so muchforbamboo rods was the time it took to plane them. He said he could plane12rods a day and have them ready for gluing.Ernie Harrison from tomrichard@email.msn.com Tue Jan 18 21:51:39 2000 SMTPSVC;Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:51:02 -0800 Subject: NEWBIE QUESTIONS 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? TOM from d_price@global2000.net Tue Jan 18 22:00:15 2000 XAA19603 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS TOM PETERS wrote: 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? Oven Thurm. from the local grocery 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? the plane blade taken out the plane that you did the strips with Dave Price TOM from landeens@home.com Tue Jan 18 22:51:17 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:51:11 -0800 "Coffey, Patrick W" Subject: Re: polishing varnish I tried to get in 3 months ago and was told that they were full up and Iwasabout number 30 on a waiting list.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: polishing varnish Pat I'll be at Corbett this spring. As far as I know it is full, but theperson to contact is Marty Kartstetter atcanerods@bitterroot.net:Ed Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Ed are you going to Corbett Lake this spring and if so do you know if itis full up or is there still room for more people? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Ed Hartzell[SMTP:hartzell@easystreet.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:19 AM Cc: rodmakers list servSubject: Re: polishing varnish Greg: I use Dupont #7 compound to cut down irregularities onvarnish.This is a cutting, not a polishing compound and can be found in autopartsretail stores. For polishing Meguiars is very good. I use #17polishingcompound which brings the varnish up to a nice intermediate finish.It toocan be found in auoto parts stores.Ed Hartzell Greg Kuntz wrote: To the list-- Could anyone give me their favorite product for polishing varnishesanda source? I'd like to try and polish out an old rod with a badfinishbefore I strip it--I have an old Brownell's catalog and can onlyfindmetal polishes, unless I'm looking in the wrong places. Would appreciate any leads anyone could offer and I'll try to ignoreanycommercials! Thanks Greg from landeens@home.com Tue Jan 18 23:00:01 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP 0800 Subject: Splitting Tip[ boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01BF61F7.5C542CE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BF61F7.5C542CE0 I want to thank Sean Moran and Richard Nantel for the method they put on =the board recently about an easy way to hand split. I have tried it on 3 =culms so far and have got 24 usable strips from every culm. I =demonstrated the method to long time rod builder Bob Clark who some of =you know and he couldn't praise the method enough. Thanks. Now I need to =find another use for my band saw! ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BF61F7.5C542CE0 I want to thank Sean Moran and Richard Nantel for = they put on the board recently about an easy way to hand split. I have = on 3 culms so far and have got 24 usable strips from every culm. I = the method to long time rod builder Bob Clark who some of you know and = couldn't praise the method enough. Thanks. Now I need to find another = band saw! ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BF61F7.5C542CE0-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Jan 18 23:42:04 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id SAA24020; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:41:48 +1300 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Time estimates Richard , While I do not totally disagree with your time estimates I do think youhavemissed a few things out . For example:- searching for the bandaids to put over the finger slices , sometimeshaving to drive up to the shop to get them - listening to SWMBO and making the appropriate responses as sheexplainswhat a bad day she has had- looking for the guides you got ready yesterday and put in a safeplace ,the buttcap which was the same , and all the other small things that havetogo on next.- redoing a new male ferrule as that last "whisker" you took of the firstone was too big a whisker- planing and heat treating new strips as the phone went just after youhadput the first lot in and you knew you could get back in time to take themout before they turned to charcoal-a lot of time is spent looking down blank sections , thinking how nicetheyare , and trying to decide if "sort of" straight is straight.-sanding back a rod butt which had just had the last coat of varnish whenthe Labrador can bursting through the door and brushed up against it .- from time to time it is necessary to pause as the radio interviews thatfamous rock legend of the 1950's or 60's who you thought was so great atthat time-usually some time is spent negiotating to obtain the right to use SWMBOsewing machine , or even more time spent persuading her that you are justtoo hamfisted to use her machine and she should make those bags for you.Then more time is required getting her to actually start making themaftershe has agreed she will. - reading books , studing the achieves , discussing with friends , the nextrod taper you should build.-going to the pub to get more beer/port/wine/orange juice or whatever asthesons have been home for the holidays or visit for food , and have emptiedthe beer fridge and the liquor cupboard- searching for the round file you use for widening the gap in cork handles( you buy them premade to save time) then remembering that sonmentionedsomething about borrowing a file , then driving over to his place to get thefile you need. This can also apply to just about every other tool you useand you have to sharpen/repair the tool when you get it back . It is because of things like this that most people who employ labour andcharge out the time worked know they are doing very well if they are abletocharge out more then 75% of the actual hours paid to the employee. ( Theexception to this is lawyers who usually manage to charge out around120% ofthe time worked) I am sure list members are aware of many other items overlooked byRichard. :)) Ian Kearney -At 10:04 AM 18/01/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm (for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from stpete@netten.net Tue Jan 18 23:42:52 2000 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:44:50 -0600 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS Tom, here is what I have and use with good results: 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST?Go to a commercial restaurant/kitchen supply house or a commercialappliance supply. They have many types of oven thermometers. If youcan't find one, go to the local HVAC/appliance supply and ask. They'llbe able to tell you where you can find what you want. Mine has a 150*to 550* range and a 4" stem. It cost about $18 but you can find somebetween $12 and 75 dollars depending on whether you want digital ordial, the quality, etc. 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212?I have a Scandinavian type hand held scraper, but don't like to use itmuch any more, better to have a bodied scraper. I use a Stanley 60- 1/2with a very sharp blade ground at about 40* for my scraper and take verylight cuts. Works very well for me on taking the final cuts on theforms. I use it carefully when cleaning up the glued blanks. Stay away from non-bodied scrapers when not using a form. The results will bechatter marks and uneven removal of bamboo. Very bad! Rick C. TOM from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Wed Jan 19 00:04:44 2000 Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:04:52 -0500 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS Tom, I can't help you with #1. #2----- Try using a cabinet scraper with anice sharp burr. Sean----- Original Message ----- Subject: NEWBIE QUESTIONS 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? TOM from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Wed Jan 19 00:18:54 2000 Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:19:02 -0500 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Time estimates Richard I think that your time estimates are reasonable. Everyone worksata different pace. The thing that slows me down is the " fiddlefactor"--time spent looking for tools, dragging the tools out and seting up.I've found that if I build 2 rods at the same time and batch the operationsit probably takes only about 30-50% more time to build the second rod. Atleast that's my impression. I"ve never kept a tally of the time it takesand I could be way off base. Anyway I never build one rod anymore becauseIcan't stand fiddling around with the varnish stuff for 45 minutes to do a 5minute job. Sean ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Time estimates I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 19 04:55:22 2000 Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:55:02 +0800 Subject: Re: Time estimates "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Ians' outline of allocating times below is spot on but I'd suggest too muchtime is being spent looking for missing items. This also seems a largefactor in other posting lately also.Long ago I found the solution to this. Look for a short time only. If youdon't find it look in the fridge. It may be there, you just never know buta beer will be so either way the search was successful. 9 times out of 10you'll trip over the thing you were looking for when you return to thebench. Don't laugh until you try it.It also helps if you pretend to be looking for something else. Tony At 06:41 PM 1/19/00 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:Richard , While I do not totally disagree with your time estimates I do think youhavemissed a few things out . For example:- searching for the bandaids to put over the finger slices , sometimeshaving to drive up to the shop to get them - listening to SWMBO and making the appropriate responses as sheexplainswhat a bad day she has had- looking for the guides you got ready yesterday and put in a safeplace ,the buttcap which was the same , and all the other small things that havetogo on next.- redoing a new male ferrule as that last "whisker" you took of the firstone was too big a whisker- planing and heat treating new strips as the phone went just after youhadput the first lot in and you knew you could get back in time to take themout before they turned to charcoal-a lot of time is spent looking down blank sections , thinking how nicetheyare , and trying to decide if "sort of" straight is straight.-sanding back a rod butt which had just had the last coat of varnish whenthe Labrador can bursting through the door and brushed up against it .- from time to time it is necessary to pause as the radio interviews thatfamous rock legend of the 1950's or 60's who you thought was so great atthat time-usually some time is spent negiotating to obtain the right to use SWMBOsewing machine , or even more time spent persuading her that you arejusttoo hamfisted to use her machine and she should make those bags for you.Then more time is required getting her to actually start making themaftershe has agreed she will. - reading books , studing the achieves , discussing with friends , the nextrod taper you should build.-going to the pub to get more beer/port/wine/orange juice or whateveras thesons have been home for the holidays or visit for food , and have emptiedthe beer fridge and the liquor cupboard- searching for the round file you use for widening the gap in corkhandles( you buy them premade to save time) then remembering that sonmentionedsomething about borrowing a file , then driving over to his place to getthefile you need. This can also apply to just about every other tool you useand you have to sharpen/repair the tool when you get it back . It is because of things like this that most people who employ labour andcharge out the time worked know they are doing very well if they are abletocharge out more then 75% of the actual hours paid to the employee. ( Theexception to this is lawyers who usually manage to charge out around120% ofthe time worked) I am sure list members are aware of many other items overlooked byRichard. :)) Ian Kearney -At 10:04 AM 18/01/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone did it.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours without thequality of the work deteriorating. Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from channer@outerbounds.net Wed Jan 19 06:39:23 2000 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Wed, 19 Jan 2000 05:39:25 -0700 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS At 09:46 PM 01/18/2000 -0600, TOM PETERS wrote:1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? TOM 1. hardware store kitchen utensil department, I got one that goes up to500d. 2. the blade that came with your 9 1/2 that is now gathering dust becauseyou replaced it with a Hock blade. Sharpen it like you were going to useit, then drag it bevel backwards.3. don't hear, we can shout you.(take your caps lock off) John from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Wed Jan 19 07:32:55 2000 0500 Subject: Re: Splitting Tip[ boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF6256.AC9022E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF6256.AC9022E0 Thanks for the kind words. Now maybe someone could tell me what I can=do with the stack of scraps I made before I figured out how to get them =to split straight------Terry I know what you're gonig to tell me I can =do with them. Sean Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 12:02 AMSubject: Splitting Tip[ I want to thank Sean Moran and Richard Nantel for the method they =put on the board recently about an easy way to hand split. I have tried =it on 3 culms so far and have got 24 usable strips from every culm. I =demonstrated the method to long time rod builder Bob Clark who some of =you know and he couldn't praise the method enough. Thanks. Now I need to =find another use for my band saw! ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF6256.AC9022E0 someone = tell me what I can do with the stack of scraps I made before I figured = to get them to split straight------Terry I know what you're gonig to = ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Wednesday, January 19, = AMSubject: Splitting Tip[ I want to thank Sean Moran and Richard Nantel = method they put on the board recently about an easy way to hand = have tried it on 3 culms so far and have got 24 usable strips from = culm. I demonstrated the method to long time rod builder Bob Clark = of you know and he couldn't praise the method enough. Thanks. Now I = saw! ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF6256.AC9022E0-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan 19 07:48:08 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Splitting Tip BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_TcgvOjq58ImMnupR5ZE/+Q)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_TcgvOjq58ImMnupR5ZE/+Q) All thanks should go to Sean Moran. I simply wrote out his instructions.His splitting technique is one of the most useful things I've learned onthe this list. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 12:03 AM Subject: Splitting Tip[ I want to thank Sean Moran and Richard Nantel for the method they put onthe board recently about an easy way to hand split. I have tried it on 3culms so far and have got 24 usable strips from every culm. Idemonstratedthe method to long time rod builder Bob Clark who some of you know andhecouldn't praise the method enough. Thanks. Now I need to find another use --Boundary_(ID_TcgvOjq58ImMnupR5ZE/+Q) thanks should go to Sean Moran. I simply wrote out his instructions. His = splitting technique is one of the most useful things I've learned on the = list. Richard Tip[I want to thank Sean Moran and Richard Nantel for = they put on the board recently about an easy way to hand split. I have = demonstrated the method to long time rod builder Bob Clark who some of= know and he couldn't praise the method enough. Thanks. Now I need to = another use for my bandsaw! --Boundary_(ID_TcgvOjq58ImMnupR5ZE/+Q)-- from BigJohn47@aol.com Wed Jan 19 07:50:35 2000 Subject: splitting tip what was the splitting method posted by sean moran. i missed it. thanx from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan 19 08:01:51 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: splitting tip -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BigJohn47@aol.comSent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 8:50 AM Subject: splitting tip what was the splitting method posted by sean moran. i missed it. thanx Here it is for those who can't find it in the archives: Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly share histechnique, I had written up my take on how hedescribed it. So, to paraphrase the master.... Forget the knife in the vise. In fact, you only needthe knife to start the split. The splitting is donewith your bare hands (actually, wear gloves. I didn'tthe other night and my hands are sliced up today.) ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES, NEVER THIRDS. 1. split the culm in half and then quarters as youusually do.2. knock out the damns.3. mount a strip into your workbench's woodworkingvise with about a foot sticking out the end. If youdon't have a woodworking vise, you'll need to rigsomething up, perhaps with a small bench vise. Youwant to have a way to hold the strip, enamel side up,in place so that both your hands are free.4. using a knife, start a split exactly in the centerand perfectly perpendicular to the strip.5. once the strip is a few inches down the strip (infact, I needed to get the split past the first node),put aside the knife and continue the split by pullingthe two sides of the culm away from each other usingyour hands.6. now here's the really neat part: if you pull apartwith equal force using both hands, the split willlikely travel down the middle. If it does begin towander: hold the smaller strip facing straight out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and bend only thefatter part away from the split. The split willimmediately travel back down the middle.7. Split halves into halves, etc. For tip strips, Ihad no problem getting down to .20 ". In fact, youcould easily go smaller if you want. The problem willnot be the splitting, it will be having enough left ofthe strips to work with! Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jan 19 08:15:24 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 1/18/00 11:42:53 PM Central Standard Time, iank@nelson.planet.org.nz writes: Ian: youv'e been at this awhile, havn't you? RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jan 19 08:15:32 2000 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS In a message dated 1/18/00 11:49:19 PM Central Standard Time, stpete@netten.net writes: 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? *Try Grainger. 1-800-323-0620 fax: 1-800-722-3291 for order orlocation of nearest outlet. PN 6T445 is a digital probe type w/range of - 40f to450f that works just fine for me and is in the $30 + change range. Regards, RTyree from tvs@borderpaving.com Wed Jan 19 08:19:00 2000 8hxji") Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:18:50 -0700 Subject: Help splitting tip post boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF624D.1B74B360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF624D.1B74B360 I also missed Sean's splitting tip post ThanksTim ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF624D.1B74B360 post ThanksTim ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF624D.1B74B360-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan 19 08:22:25 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Time estimates Good point, Ed. I took as an assumption that the ferrules, reel seat,guides, bag, and tube were store bought. I should have added an hour,though, for mounting and turning a cork grip since most people work withspecie cork. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:27 PM Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail)Subject: Re: Time estimates Time depends on what you do If you make your own ferrules,reelseats, bagsand cases in addition to planing and gluing, you are in forabout 90 hours.One famous rod maker (Gillum) said it took him two weeks (80hours?) to finisha rod.Ed Hartzell from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 19 08:44:35 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:35:11 -0600 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS I have an oven thermometer, that goes up to 600*. I got it at a hardwarestore, for less than $5. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS In a message dated 1/18/00 11:49:19 PM Central Standard Time,stpete@netten.net writes: 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? *Try Grainger. 1-800-323-0620 fax: 1-800-722-3291 for order orlocationof nearest outlet. PN 6T445 is a digital probe type w/range of - 40f to450fthat works just fine for me and is in the $30 + change range. Regards, RTyree from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 19 08:50:59 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:41:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Time estimates It seems to me, that those of us who like to work with our hands, areneglecting the reason we do IT, when we start measuring our time. Makingaperfect joint, or a pretty wrap, whatever, is the joy of doing good work. If cane rods are done in mass production, then they fall into the Montague,H-I class. For this, time study is part of the game ! I like to think we arenot building this class of cane rods. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Time estimates Good point, Ed. I took as an assumption that the ferrules, reel seat,guides, bag, and tube were store bought. I should have added an hour,though, for mounting and turning a cork grip since most people work withspecie cork. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:27 PM Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail)Subject: Re: Time estimates Time depends on what you do If you make your own ferrules,reelseats, bagsand cases in addition to planing and gluing, you are in forabout 90 hours.One famous rod maker (Gillum) said it took him two weeks (80hours?) to finisha rod.Ed Hartzell from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan 19 09:42:22 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Time estimates My first rod took 60 hours, my second took 40, and my third, 30. And yet,the quality of my fishing rods is improving with each rod. People oftenequate the longer it takes to do something with increased quality. I thinkthis is a big mistake. A professional fly tyer is able to produce a hugenumber of perfect, identical flies in a very short time. I can only tie adozen good dry flies in an evening. My flies probably approach but do notsurpass the quality of an expert, professional tyer who can produce 2- 3dozen in the same amount of time. I know of a rod builder who has invented a beveller able to bevel a 4-footstrip of cane an even .024" the entire length. He is able to bevel all thestrips for a 2-piece rod in a couple of hours at a much higher level orprecision than I can produce with a hand plane in four evenings. I aspireto achieving the quality of his rods, not for the reduced effort, butbecause they are much more precisely built than I can produce by hand. Speed and mass production do not need to equate with poor quality. Someproduction menthods are able to produce tolerances far beyond what wecando with a hand tools and unlimited time. The CPU running your computerconsists of millions of microscopic silicone etchings. The chips areproduced by robots. How small and powerful would our computers be ifthesechips were to be built one by a solitary craftsman holding a solderingiron? Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:52 AM Cc: 'Rodmakers (E-mail)'Subject: Re: Time estimates It seems to me, that those of us who like to work with our hands, areneglecting the reason we do IT, when we start measuring ourtime. Making aperfect joint, or a pretty wrap, whatever, is the joy ofdoing good work. If cane rods are done in mass production, then they fall intothe Montague,H-I class. For this, time study is part of the game ! I liketo think we arenot building this class of cane rods. GMA from ernie2@pacbell.net Wed Jan 19 09:53:03 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Time estimates Paul,No, it wasn't G.G. he is is using power equipment. I read it in an oldfishing book. After thinking about it I think what the man said was hecould do twelve strips a day, which included all steps from splitting tobeing ready to glue.Ernie -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Time estimates Ernie His initials wouldn't happen to be G.G. would they? Paul----- Original Message -----From: "Ernie Harrison" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:25 AMSubject: Re: Time estimates Richard,I read about this fellow who hand planed bamboo rods for a living. Helaughed at the people who claimed that the reason they charged so muchforbamboo rods was the time it took to plane them. He said he could plane12rods a day and have them ready for gluing.Ernie Harrison from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan 19 09:58:16 2000 0600 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS Tom,My friend uses a oven thermometer from W-- M--- that hesuspends in his heat gun oven. I think they are lessthan 5.00. I use razor blades for my final scraping. Oneblade goes a long way. I scrap right down to the metalon the forms. No worry about hurting anything.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com TOM PETERS wrote: 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? TOM from mark_lang@tnb.com Wed Jan 19 13:54:58 2000 0600 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:55:39 -0600 Subject: Reel seat insert List,I am interested in making my own real seat inserts. I saw reference tobuying a fingernail router bit in the archieves. Can any one tell me the size and who tobuy from. Isaw a part # c1215 but I can not find who to get this from. Thanks,Mark from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 19 13:57:35 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6DB19C60084; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:56:11 -0500 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Time estimates Hear-hear!Art At 01:10 AM 01/19/2000 -0500, Karen and Sean Moran wrote:Richard I think that your time estimates are reasonable. Everyone worksata different pace. The thing that slows me down is the " fiddlefactor"--time spent looking for tools, dragging the tools out and setingup.I've found that if I build 2 rods at the same time and batch the operationsit probably takes only about 30- 50% more time to build the second rod. Atleast that's my impression. I"ve never kept a tally of the time it takesand I could be way off base. Anyway I never build one rod anymorebecause Ican't stand fiddling around with the varnish stuff for 45 minutes to do a5minute job. Sean ----- Original Message -----From: Richard Nantel Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:04 AMSubject: Time estimates I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too high anestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more daunting thenitactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone didit.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours withoutthequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jan 19 14:17:37 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:15:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Reel seat insert Mark,Sears carries thumbnail bits, but usually only in 1/2 inch shaft. Theymay have 1/4", not sure... my mortising setup uses a 1/2 shaft. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Reel seat insert List,I am interested in making my own real seat inserts. I saw reference tobuying a finger nail router bit in the archieves. Can any one tell me thesize and who to buy from. I saw a part # c1215 but I can not find who toget this from. Thanks,Mark from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 19 14:20:11 2000 Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:19:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Reel seat insert Mark,Robert Venneri carries assorted router bits for making reel seats.http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.htmlThey are in the price section,Shawn Mark Lang wrote: List,I am interested in making my own real seat inserts. I saw reference tobuying a fingernail router bit in the archieves. Thanks,Mark from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 19 14:25:11 2000 Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:23:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Reel seat insert Mark Lang wrote: List,I am interested in making my own real seat inserts. I saw reference tobuying a fingernail router bit in the archieves. Can any one tell me the size and who tobuy from. Isaw a part # c1215 but I can not find who to get this from.Thanks,Mark Mark,That's the part # for Grizzly Imports. Their contact information is onthe Rodmakerspage. I'm doing the same thing, so let me know if I can help, Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jan 19 15:59:43 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Varnish Removal I have tried 3M Safest Stripper with good results and no nasty stuff. I put on a thick coat and use a green pad to take the varnish off. Got that from Michael Sinclair's book. Works good enough for me with no scraping.Bob Maulucci At 10:04 PM 1/17/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi, I picked up an old bamboo rod with a lot of overcoats of varnish andI used the spray can of citristrip. Two applications and it was cleanand no nasty chemicals. I talked with a friend who does a lot of refinishing and he prefers toscrape the old varnish off and is carefull not to remove the writing from the shaft. Actually he describe a long process to strip the varnish from over the writing. I have no idea what the citristrip will do to the writing on the shaft buthopefully someone here can answer that. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 6:59 PMSubject: Varnish Removal I'm refinishing a Wright & McGill - Grainger 8'6" 3/2 "Stream andLake"of which I'll post the taper later. The question I have is; Does any onehavea good, safe way to remove old varnish? David Maxey from sf_saez@email.msn.com Wed Jan 19 16:04:07 2000 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:03:35 -0800 Subject: from sf_saez@email.msn.com Wed Jan 19 16:14:43 2000 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:14:10 -0800 Subject: Dickerson Guide series tapers I'm looking for Dickerson Guide series tapers. I'd like to make a relativelyfast 5 or 6 wt, 8 ft, 2 piece rod. from what I've read, the Dickerson Guideseries tapers would do the trick. I've searched the archives & the web butI've come up dry. If anyone is willing to post one of these tapers I wouldgreatly appreciate it. Any other makers taper along this spec would alsobeappreciated. PS: Forgive the blank email, the mouse went awry. from stpete@netten.net Wed Jan 19 16:19:50 2000 Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:21:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Removal I second Bob's recommendation for 3M Safest Stripper. Very easy andsafe stuff to use. BTW, Micheal Sinclair's book is a pretty goodinvestment for $25. Lot's of useful info. I've spent much more on lessuseful info. Rick C. bob maulucci wrote: I have tried 3M Safest Stripper with good results and no nasty stuff. Iputon a thick coat and use a green pad to take the varnish off. Got that fromMichael Sinclair's book. Works good enough for me with no scraping.Bob Maulucci from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 19 16:34:03 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:24:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Removal Michael S. wrote recently, that he was going to get some Citristrip, sincehe'd not tried it. I've tried both, and the S.S. may be a bit gentler, butit takes more applications than the Citristrip. Both are very safe to use. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Varnish Removal I second Bob's recommendation for 3M Safest Stripper. Very easy andsafe stuff to use. BTW, Micheal Sinclair's book is a pretty goodinvestment for $25. Lot's of useful info. I've spent much more on lessuseful info. Rick C. bob maulucci wrote: I have tried 3M Safest Stripper with good results and no nasty stuff. Iputon a thick coat and use a green pad to take the varnish off. Got thatfromMichael Sinclair's book. Works good enough for me with no scraping.Bob Maulucci from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jan 19 17:00:10 2000 15:08:46 PST Subject: Re: Varnish Removal David, I've used a product called Jasco Premium on about 70 rods with noproblems as far as the rods go. I do have this growth on my..... just kidding. Jasco will burn you through the thin latex gloves so the other products being recommended may be more user friendly. One thing I have found with the stripper is that I don't leave it on the rod surface more then 5 minutes before wiping away the melted varnish. The can says something like anhour, but if you do that it will solidify again and you will end up with an original Heddon alligatored finish. Put the stuff on thick, wait about 5 minutes and wipe away. Sometimes it takes two applications dependingon how thick and what condition the varnish your removing is in. 0000 steelwool will remove any traces left. Stay off the apex's. Chris------------------Original text I'm refinishing a Wright & McGill - Grainger 8'6" 3/2 "Stream and Lake" of which I'll post the taper later. The question I have is; Does any one have a good, safe way to remove old varnish? David Maxey from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 19 17:53:45 2000 Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Dickerson Guide series tapers Sixto,I have a couple of Dickerson 5wt tapers for 8 foot. They are 8013andthe 8014 as well as a 7 1/2' 5wt and some smaller tapers. I don't know iftheseare any help but I have them if you want them.,Shawn "Sixto F. Saez" wrote: I'm looking for Dickerson Guide series tapers. I'd like to make arelativelyfast 5 or 6 wt, 8 ft, 2 piece rod. .... from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 19 18:00:49 2000 Subject: Venerri reel seats Does anyone out there that uses Robert Venerri's reel seats havepictures that I can see on line other than the models he has on hispage? I have found other models on sites but they were pretty distantshots.You can email them to me offlist if you want.TIA,Shawn from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Jan 19 18:04:07 2000 Subject: Tony Young components Some time in December there was a post about Tony Young's ferrules andreelseats, so I checked out his web site(www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html)and ordered some of each. They came today and I like them very much. Thereel seats are very interesting -- the metal is brass and the wood is nice.The ferrules look like most other new ones I've seen. And best of all foryou other US folks the prices are very reasonable. In Australian currencythe prices are about like domestic ones, but with the exchange rate a setofferrules with 2 males costs $25 to $30 US. No financial interest, justthought you'd like to know. B. Kling from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jan 19 18:24:16 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Tony Young components Hi Barry,I second that. I enjoyed getting Tony's stuff, and I will use his ferrules on my rods from here on. I am going to try making reel seats myself. His parts are great values, but not cheap in quality by any means. The ferrules are as good as any others I have ordered.Bob At 06:04 PM 1/19/00 -0600, you wrote: Some time in December there was a post about Tony Young's ferrules andreelseats, so I checked out his web site(www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html)and ordered some of each. They came today and I like them very much. Thereel seats are very interesting -- the metal is brass and the wood is nice.The ferrules look like most other new ones I've seen. And best of all foryou other US folks the prices are very reasonable. In Australian currencythe prices are about like domestic ones, but with the exchange rate a setofferrules with 2 males costs $25 to $30 US. No financial interest, justthought you'd like to know. B. Kling Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bhoy@inmind.com Wed Jan 19 18:45:42 2000 altos.inmind.com(8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id TAA05397 for ;Wed, 19 Jan 2000 Subject: Classic rod reference? Recently there was a thread about photographing Classic/Modern rods for reference. Great idea. Any suggestions on the best in-print book available that shows/describes Classic rod components/wraps/guides/accessoriesetc? Thanks, bill hoy from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Jan 19 19:05:08 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Classic rod reference? AJ Campbells book is one of the best in print and you can get it at Amazonat a 30% discount... here's the link... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1558214003/anglerscollectib/104-2358069-4938056 Marty Keane's is excellent but out of print and expensive... figure $250+. Michael Sinclair's Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook is a superb rod www.bamboorods.homepage.com/books.htm Darrell p.s. Yes I have a financial interest, but you asked... -----Original Message----- Subject: Classic rod reference? Recently there was a thread about photographing Classic/Modern rods forreference. Great idea. Any suggestions on the best in-print book availablethat shows/describes Classic rod components/wraps/guides/accessoriesetc? Thanks, bill hoy from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Jan 19 19:40:43 2000 E-Mail VirusWallNT); Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:37:42 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Tony Young components Hi Barry,that metal on Tony Young's reel seats is actually bronze, whichmeans that archaeologists will be really happy in a few thousand yearswhenthey start digging us all up. The stuff lasts forever so a bamboo rod nutwill be easily identified by his perfectly preserved reel seat hardware. Best regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Tony Young components Some time in December there was a post about Tony Young's ferrules andreelseats, so I checked out his web site(www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html)and ordered some of each. They came today and I like them very much. Thereel seats are very interesting -- the metal is brass and the wood is nice.The ferrules look like most other new ones I've seen. And best of all foryou other US folks the prices are very reasonable. In Australian currencythe prices are about like domestic ones, but with the exchange rate a setofferrules with 2 males costs $25 to $30 US. No financial interest, justthought you'd like to know. B. Kling from leroyt@involved.com Wed Jan 19 20:44:09 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:41:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Dickerson Guide series tapers Maurer and Elser has the tapers you are looking for. Have made a couplerods based on Dickerson's tapers and like them.Leroy........ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jan 20 07:15:00 2000 "Kling, Barry W." ,"''rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu' '" Subject: RE: Tony Young components Mike -- Right, bronze. Just wanted to see if you were paying attention....thanks forthe correction! Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Tony Young components Hi Barry,that metal on Tony Young's reel seats is actually bronze, whichmeans that archaeologists will be really happy in a few thousand yearswhenthey start digging us all up. The stuff lasts forever so a bamboo rodnutwill be easily identified by his perfectly preserved reel seat hardware. Best regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Tony Young components Some time in December there was a post about Tony Young's ferrules andreelseats, so I checked out his web site(www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html)and ordered some of each. They came today and I like them very much. Thereel seats are very interesting -- the metal is brass and the wood isnice.The ferrules look like most other new ones I've seen. And best of allforyou other US folks the prices are very reasonable. In Australiancurrencythe prices are about like domestic ones, but with the exchange rate aset offerrules with 2 males costs $25 to $30 US. No financial interest, justthought you'd like to know. B. Kling from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jan 20 09:24:38 2000 Subject: Re: Salmon Rods Just a short note to thank all those who provided suggestions onmy salmon rod question, both on and off-list. This is a great resource,and I'm thankful for all the ways you folks enrich my life, in rodmakingand in other areas as well. Harry from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 20 15:05:58 2000 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Time estimates You have to make in batches. Besides reel seats and ferrules, cane can besplit inbatches and the nodes staggered and left longer than the longest rod youmake. Ed Hartzell wrote: Time depends on what you do If you make your own ferrules, reelseats,bagsand cases in addition to planing and gluing, you are in for about 90hours.One famous rod maker (Gillum) said it took him two weeks (80 hours?)to finisha rod.Ed Hartzell. Richard Nantel wrote: I planed five of the six strips for the butt section of the F.E. Thomas 3wt from Howell's book last night in two hours. With my next rod, I'mgoingto log the total number of hours needed to build a rod. I've always readthat it is something like 40 hours but I now think that's way too highanestimate. I think this estimate makes the task seem more dauntingthen itactually is for beginners. I think the 40-hour estimate is like the4-minute mile: no one thought it could be surpassed until someone didit.Then, everyone started running the mile in under four minutes. I think the real labor breakdown is as follows (and still I think I ambeing generous): File and sand nodes on culm: 1.5 hoursSplit culm: 2 hoursstraighten and press nodes: 4 hoursRough plane strips: 2 hoursBind and temper: 1 hourForm setup: 1 hourFinal planing (including sharpening): 6 hoursGluing, straightening and heating: 3 hoursSanding: 2 hoursFinishing (varnish): 2 hours (impregnation: 15 minutes)Mount reel seat and mount and lap ferrule: 2 hoursPrepare and mount guides: 3 hoursFinishing wraps: 1 hour Total = 30.5 hours with the first two items being done once per culm(for2-3 rods). So the total is probably closer to 27 hours per rod for arodmaker such as myself who has only built a handful of rods. I think anexperienced rodmaker could get this down to below 20 hours withoutthequality of the work deteriorating. Richard from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jan 20 15:22:40 2000 Subject: ferrules I have a question that has been bugging me for a while now. Thequestion is: how do you accurately determine ferrule size? Do you takethe diameter of the center station, i.e. on a 90" rod do you average themeasurements at stn 40 and 45. and use that or what. For example, I amnow building a Perfectionist and stn 40 is at .192" and stn 45 is at.203". What size ferrule do I use and how do you determine that?Other tapers I have tell you what ferrule to use mostly. Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jan 20 15:24:09 2000 0400 Subject: Thanks Re: Venerri reel seats Just a quick note to say thanks for all the responses to my question, Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Does anyone out there that uses Robert Venerri's reel seats havepictures that I can see on line other than the models he has on hispage? I have found other models on sites but they were pretty distantshots.You can email them to me offlist if you want.TIA,Shawn from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 20 15:28:05 2000 "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: Time estimates When you buy a fine watch or camera do you think they were chiseled out All rods in the past, even Paynes were produced on machines and have beensincethe late 1800's.Hand planing is fun but it 'aint rodmaking the same as growing produce inyourgarden 'aint farming.A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and selling rodswithoutincomes from other sources. nobler wrote: It seems to me, that those of us who like to work with our hands, areneglecting the reason we do IT, when we start measuring our time.Making aperfect joint, or a pretty wrap, whatever, is the joy of doing good work. If cane rods are done in mass production, then they fall into theMontague,H-I class. For this, time study is part of the game ! I like to think we arenot building this class of cane rods. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Richard Nantel" Cc: "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 8:20 AMSubject: RE: Time estimates Good point, Ed. I took as an assumption that the ferrules, reel seat,guides, bag, and tube were store bought. I should have added an hour,though, for mounting and turning a cork grip since most people workwithspecie cork. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:27 PM Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail)Subject: Re: Time estimates Time depends on what you do If you make your own ferrules,reelseats, bagsand cases in addition to planing and gluing, you are in forabout 90 hours.One famous rod maker (Gillum) said it took him two weeks (80hours?) to finisha rod.Ed Hartzell from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Jan 20 15:47:04 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Time estimates -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and selling rodswithoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Jan 20 15:51:20 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates So Terry isn't a rodmaker?????? ----------From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Sv: Time estimatesDate: Saturday, January 22, 2000 4:49 PM -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrodswithoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan 20 15:54:56 2000 14:03:41 PST Subject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If you extrapolate that point. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the inside diameter of the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install without removingtoo much bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcover about an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that the pointwhere the tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemale and therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this same pointon the male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little less bamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- I have a question that has been bugging me for a while now. Thequestion is: how do you accurately determine ferrule size? Do you takethe diameter of the center station, i.e. on a 90" rod do you average themeasurements at stn 40 and 45. and use that or what. For example, I amnow building a Perfectionist and stn 40 is at .192" and stn 45 is at.203". What size ferrule do I use and how do you determine that?Other tapers I have tell you what ferrule to use mostly. Shawn from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan 20 16:09:56 2000 14:18:50 PST Subject: Re: Ferrules Shawn, I was assuming a 7' rod and that the ferrule was between the 40" and 45" marks you provided. If it's a 90" rod or 7 1/2' then I would use the 45" mark of .203 as where your ferrules will go. Since this is right on for a size 13 ferrule you will end up going right down to the flat dimensions and removing the apex's entirely. Maybe not ideal, but your other option is the size 14 and that would require only a little apex removal. If you measure the apex to apex dimension you will have an idea as to how much you will remove with a #14 ferrule. I would use a size 13 myself. Chris from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 20 17:10:40 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:01:12 -0600 Subject: Re: ferrules You guys know this, I'm sure, but if you divide the 13 by 64 ( as in13/64"), it gives you the decimal equivalent. This gives an easy check intothe size needed. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate thatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install without removingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that the pointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this samepointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little lessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Shawn Pineo" , on 1/20/00 1:38 PM: I have a question that has been bugging me for a while now. Thequestion is: how do you accurately determine ferrule size? Do you takethe diameter of the center station, i.e. on a 90" rod do you average themeasurements at stn 40 and 45. and use that or what. For example, I amnow building a Perfectionist and stn 40 is at .192" and stn 45 is at.203". What size ferrule do I use and how do you determine that?Other tapers I have tell you what ferrule to use mostly. Shawn from ernie2@pacbell.net Thu Jan 20 17:19:08 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: ferrules Christopher,That was explained nicely. Now I have a question, what do you fill inthe gaps between the rod and ferrule with?Ernie -----Original Message----- Subject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate thatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install without removingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that the pointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this same pointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little lessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan 20 17:19:54 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:17:30 -0600 Subject: Re: ferrules Also, and this is probably obvious to most, you can mulitply yourdimensionacross the flats at the ferrule station by 64 and it will give you the valuethat you are closest to... example.. your ferrule station measures 0.203...multiply that by 64 and you get 12.99... so closest to a 13/64ths ferrule. -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: ferrules You guys know this, I'm sure, but if you divide the 13 by 64 ( as in13/64"), it gives you the decimal equivalent. This gives an easy checkintothe size needed. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 4:03 PMSubject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate thatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install without removingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that the pointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this samepointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little lessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Shawn Pineo" , on 1/20/00 1:38 PM: I have a question that has been bugging me for a while now. Thequestion is: how do you accurately determine ferrule size? Do you takethe diameter of the center station, i.e. on a 90" rod do you average themeasurements at stn 40 and 45. and use that or what. For example, I amnow building a Perfectionist and stn 40 is at .192" and stn 45 is at.203". What size ferrule do I use and how do you determine that?Other tapers I have tell you what ferrule to use mostly. Shawn from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 20 17:25:28 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates He was a Railroad Engineer and an amateur rodmaker. Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrods withoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 20 17:28:46 2000 Subject: Re: Time estimates At present I am a tool and die maker not a rodmaker. Ted Knott wrote: So Terry isn't a rodmaker?????? ----------From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Sv: Time estimatesDate: Saturday, January 22, 2000 4:49 PM -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrodswithoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from briansr@point-net.com Thu Jan 20 17:59:23 2000 be forged)) Subject: Re Time estimates Let me seeRodmakers is NOT a rodmaker site ?????Terry you're wrong on this one !!If you were to ask the FF community "who is Terry Ackland ?"Those whoknowya would answer "rodmaker"A minority on this list would answer "^&**$$@#@"Cheers Brian from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 20 18:59:19 2000 Subject: Re: RE: Bluing Ferrules now- and guides Dennis,The evenness depends on how clean the ferrule is and how long youleave the brass black on. Sometimes I have to apply the bluing again to get the darkness of color I like. Lightly polishing helps and, of course I varnish the ferrule as well,Regards,Hank. from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 20 19:08:33 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:09:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Bluing Ferrules now- and guides There's also the dull, antique-ish look. I have a couple of well made canerods, that this look makes them look even more distinguished ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Bluing Ferrules now- and guides Dennis,The evenness depends on how clean the ferrule is and how long youleavethe brass black on. Sometimes I have to apply the bluing again to get thedarkness of color I like. Lightly polishing helps and, of course I varnishthe ferrule as well,Regards,Hank. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan 20 19:08:39 2000 17:17:40 PST Subject: RE: Ferrules I use hot melt glue so it fills any gaps that may be present, it is flexible so doesn't shear, it adheres very well to metal, if you need to remove the ferrule later it is easily done, and you can pin the ferrules for added insurance. However, in 90% of the applications there is no gap. As I said I would use the size 13 on that rod we were just discussing. Chris------------------Original text Christopher,That was explained nicely. Now I have a question, what do you fill inthe gaps between the rod and ferrule with?Ernie -----Original Message----- Subject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate thatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install without removingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that the pointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this same pointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little lessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 20 19:13:59 2000 Subject: Re: Re Time estimates When I am asked my occupation I always say I am a tool and die maker.Who on this list actually calls themselves a Rodmaker? I bet you couldcounton one hand the number.There is a noticeable absence of working rodmakers of note on the list, Iwould think they are too busy in the real world. Anyway, they think we arearum bunch.Perhaps we should call it recreational rodmaking, it would be more honest.Terry Brian Sturrock wrote: Let me seeRodmakers is NOT a rodmaker site ?????Terry you're wrong on this one !!If you were to ask the FF community "who is Terry Ackland ?"Those whoknowya would answer "rodmaker"A minority on this list would answer "^&**$$@#@"Cheers Brian from djk762@hotmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:22:41 2000 Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:22:08 PST Subject: RE: Time Estimates Terry- ....and Van Gough was not a painter. David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 20 19:26:14 2000 Subject: Re: Re Time estimates O.K.,O.K.,as the street cleaner said to the garbage man's horse "I've had about enough out of you". Let us all leave it at that.Hank from d_price@global2000.net Thu Jan 20 19:50:03 2000 UAA30221 Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates Terence I build bamboo rods from scratch, there for I'm a rodmaker. I donot sell them, I'm not a professional rodmaker. Hand planing rods withthe accuracy of +- less than a mill at each station and ending up with agood finished product is what all the fun is in this pastime. If I had arod that was pumped through a machine I think I would opt for plastic.Save you're pissing contests for George :-). Dave TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: He was a Railroad Engineer and an amateur rodmaker. Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrods withoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from thramer@presys.com Thu Jan 20 19:55:10 2000 0000 (64.5.7.23) Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrods withoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten Garrison, as most of us was a very talented amateur. A book does not aprofessional make. Indeed a true professional would probably be loath topublish a detailed account of how to compete with themself. And whywould they set aside the time?A.J.Thramer from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 20 21:42:27 2000 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Pezon et Michel Salmon Rod Tom Smithwick,re the Pezon you have on e-bay....did mic the taper? Sounds like itmight make an interesting small 2-hander. --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jan 20 21:56:44 2000 0500 Subject: Rodmakers Gathering Does anyone know when the NY (Roscoe) gathering is this year? I am tryingtobook a salmon trip and need to know ASAP...thanks! from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 20 21:57:36 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:58:02 -0600 Subject: PHY Midge There's a PHY Midge with good photos on eBay. Starting bid is $1800, Ithinkit was ! I just put bamboo in the search, and all the bamboo rods are there, through19 pages. Anyway, the wraps seem to be the special brown that he used. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Pezon et Michel Salmon Rod Tom Smithwick,re the Pezon you have on e-bay....did mic the taper? Sounds like itmight make an interesting small 2-hander. --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Thu Jan 20 22:38:56 2000 Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:38:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules Chris, Are you saying that you use a regular glue gun to mount yourferrules? Sean----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Ferrules I use hot melt glue so it fills any gaps that may be present, it isflexibleso doesn't shear, it adheres very well to metal, if you need to remove theferrule later it is easily done, and you can pin the ferrules for addedinsurance. However, in 90% of the applications there is no gap. As Isaid Iwould use the size 13 on that rod we were just discussing. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ernie Harrison" , on 1/20/00 3:36 PM: Christopher,That was explained nicely. Now I have a question, what do you fill inthe gaps between the rod and ferrule with?Ernie -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 2:01 PMSubject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate thatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install without removingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that the pointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this samepointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little lessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris from d_price@global2000.net Thu Jan 20 23:03:32 2000 AAA21102 Subject: Re: Ferrules I was wondering that also, could be better than epoxy. I think that Iwould wrap the ferrule different than I do now, what's you're take onthe ferrule wrap? Dave Karen and Sean Moran wrote: Chris, Are you saying that you use a regular glue gun to mount yourferrules? Sean----- Original Message -----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:17 PMSubject: RE: Ferrules I use hot melt glue so it fills any gaps that may be present, it isflexibleso doesn't shear, it adheres very well to metal, if you need to removetheferrule later it is easily done, and you can pin the ferrules for addedinsurance. However, in 90% of the applications there is no gap. As Isaid Iwould use the size 13 on that rod we were just discussing. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ernie Harrison" , on 1/20/00 3:36 PM: Christopher,That was explained nicely. Now I have a question, what do you fill inthe gaps between the rod and ferrule with?Ernie -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 2:01 PMSubject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate atthatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install withoutremovingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that thepointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this samepointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little lessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris from lars32@gateway.net Thu Jan 20 23:46:33 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Dave N.-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Time Estimates Terry- ....and Van Gough was not a painter. David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from cadams46@juno.com Fri Jan 21 00:04:40 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswJdque1qgxQHWIKBZ9tV875zE3k6x/GSRg==" 01:04:22 EST Subject: Re:Ferrules 73 I am comming in on this in mid stream so I apoligize if its not whateveryones talking about. I use the hotmelt Ferrule-tite cement that youmelt over your lamp for all my ferrules. So far I've had great sucess,seems to be a very strong glue and once you pin it it'll hold for years. Also it would be easy to replace and ferrule. Just my thoughts on it butI am only on rod 6.I'd also like to thank everyone that replied about the ferrule blueing. I appreciate it. This is an invaluable resource.C.R. Adams Chris, Are you saying that you use a regular glue gun to mount yourferrules? Sean----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Ferrules I use hot melt glue so it fills any gaps that may be present, it isflexibleso doesn't shear, it adheres very well to metal, if you need to removetheferrule later it is easily done, and you can pin the ferrules for addedinsurance. However, in 90% of the applications there is no gap. As Isaid Iwould use the size 13 on that rod we were just discussing. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ernie Harrison" , on 1/20/00 3:36 PM: Christopher,That was explained nicely. Now I have a question, what do you fillinthe gaps between the rod and ferrule with?Ernie -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 2:01 PMSubject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate atthatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install withoutremovingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that thepointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this samepointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a littlelessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris from lars32@gateway.net Fri Jan 21 00:06:46 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS If you really want cheap on a scraper take a scrap piece of window glassputit on the bench and hit it wiyh a hammer. use a small shard of the brokenglass for a scraper. when it gets dull throw it away and take another littlepiece. No sharpening involved. We are talking cheap!Dave N.-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS Tom, I can't help you with #1. #2----- Try using a cabinet scraper withanice sharp burr. Sean----- Original Message -----From: TOM PETERS Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:46 PMSubject: NEWBIE QUESTIONS 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? TOM from mschaffer@mindspring.com Fri Jan 21 04:47:54 2000 Subject: Record 9 1/2 plane Just my 2 cents worth, but after having done something stupid, I was inneedof another plane, so I decided to splurge and try a Record 9 1/2 planeinstead of another Stanley. Having used the Record now for a couple ofmonths, I definately find that I like it a lot better than theStanley--easier and more accurate depth adjustment, as well as ease ofsquaring the blade edge with the throat opening. I must agree with a pastpost that the screw used to tighten the blade is kind of a minor hassel, butthat hassle is far outweighed by the other benefits.No commercial interest, yadda, yadda--just a nice tool! Mike from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 21 05:00:56 2000 Subject: Sir D I have an idea and was wondering if anyone could help me out. For mynext rod I was thinking of building the Cattanach 7'0 4wt in the 3 pcversion(with 1 Cattanach tip and 1 Sir D tip) any comments? Looking atthe graph, there doesn't seem to be much diff in the casting actionbetween the 2pc and 3pc ,anyone know? Also I was thinking of trying toconvert the taper to something smaller, say a 2 wt? I haven't quitefigured out how to do it on the rodmaker site yet, does anyone have thetaper or does it wreck the action when you reduce the line size? Hasanyone else tried this or am I the only sick individual ? Thanks,Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 21 05:13:52 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Sir D P.S. I was thinking of using RECs trunkated uniferrules. I don't know ,doesanyone have any comments? Shawn Pineo wrote: I have an idea and was wondering if anyone could help me out. For mynext rod I was thinking of building the Cattanach 7'0 4wt in the 3 pcversion(with 1 Cattanach tip and 1 Sir D tip) any comments? Looking atthe graph, there doesn't seem to be much diff in the casting actionbetween the 2pc and 3pc ,anyone know? Also I was thinking of trying toconvert the taper to something smaller, say a 2 wt? I haven't quitefigured out how to do it on the rodmaker site yet, does anyone have thetaper or does it wreck the action when you reduce the line size? Hasanyone else tried this or am I the only sick individual ? Thanks,Shawn from channer@outerbounds.net Fri Jan 21 06:34:49 2000 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Fri, 21 Jan 2000 05:35:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Sir D At 06:52 AM 01/21/2000 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:I have an idea and was wondering if anyone could help me out. For mynext rod I was thinking of building the Cattanach 7'0 4wt in the 3 pcversion(with 1 Cattanach tip and 1 Sir D tip) any comments? Looking atthe graph, there doesn't seem to be much diff in the casting actionbetween the 2pc and 3pc ,anyone know? Also I was thinking of trying toconvert the taper to something smaller, say a 2 wt? I haven't quitefigured out how to do it on the rodmaker site yet, does anyone have thetaper or does it wreck the action when you reduce the line size? Hasanyone else tried this or am I the only sick individual ? Thanks,Shawn Shawn;If you search the archives you will find that Wayne has already postedvariations on this taper from 6' to 7'6", 2 wt. to 4 wt., I think it was 9or 12 different tapers in all. I built the 7'6" 4wt version, very nicecasting rod.John from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jan 21 07:49:22 2000 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS This is what I used back in the 40's. I find it easier on my hands using a"used" razor blade, it scrapes just as good.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com lars32 wrote: If you really want cheap on a scraper take a scrap piece of window glassputit on the bench and hit it wiyh a hammer. use a small shard of the brokenglass for a scraper. when it gets dull throw it away and take anotherlittlepiece. No sharpening involved. We are talking cheap!Dave N.-----Original Message----- From: Karen and Sean Moran rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:14 PMSubject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS Tom, I can't help you with #1. #2----- Try using a cabinet scraperwith anice sharp burr. Sean----- Original Message -----From: TOM PETERS Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:46 PMSubject: NEWBIE QUESTIONS 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? TOM from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 21 09:07:18 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:07:47 -0600 "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Subject: Re: PHY Midge Ho! Ho! Ho! I ain't that rich ! No, I meant that there were that many canerods, that I found listed under "bamboo" ! If you enter "bamboo fly rods",you often only get 5 or 6 listed. EBay has a long way to go, to make their search engine more efficient ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PHY Midge GMA, have yousaved that much versus buying the same rods via dealers? Are you acollector,or dealer?I have purchased several rods via eBay (Pezon et Michel parabolic 5wt;several 4-5 wt Hardys). I have subsequently sold all but 1 Hardy and thePezon(they just weren't what I had expected from the descriptions) via abrokerandmade a little money (which I used to buy more). I only buy them to fish,butget the impression that it wouldn't be too difficult to make a littleextrapocket change.dws. nobler wrote: I'll try it, and thanks. I found close to $40K in cane rods, by going tobamboo. It doesn't take long to skip over the non rod stuff. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 7:09 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA,If you first go to the fishing subsection in eBay (under"miscellaneous" and"sporting goods"), then put "bamboo" in the search (WITH the "Searchonlyfishing"), you will hit only on bamboo fishing equipment (including,sometimes,creels). It typically includes only 1-2 pages.happy hunting, dws. nobler wrote: There's a PHY Midge with good photos on eBay. Starting bid is $1800,Ithinkit was ! I just put bamboo in the search, and all the bamboo rods are there,through19 pages. Anyway, the wraps seem to be the special brown that he used. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Leitheiser" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: Pezon et Michel Salmon Rod Tom Smithwick,re the Pezon you have on e-bay....did mic the taper? Sounds likeitmight make an interesting small 2-hander. --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from sf_saez@email.msn.com Fri Jan 21 09:07:40 2000 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:07:09 -0800 Subject: RE: Sir D I've had good experiences with a rod I made with the 2 pc version of thattaper. A friend of the family who owns a fly shop and does a lot of guidingon fresh and saltwater cast it last Thanksgiving. He really liked the linecontrol the rod gave him. One time I went fishing and forgot to bring myreel with the 4 wt line. My only alternative was to use the 6 wt reel I keepin the car for another rod I use for bass. Wayne's taper has enoughbackboneto cast the 6 wt line about 20-30 ft with a good loop. I was veryimpressed.As you can tell, I can't say enough good stuff about Wayne's taper. Ihaven't made any 3 pc rods so I can't compare one with the other. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan 21 09:30:05 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA00490 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id JAA21149 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 Subject: Re: Sir D Shawn, You can find Wayne's variations based on this stress curve at http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9711.389 I built Wayne's original as my first rod a few years ago and Ijust started a 7'3" variation last weekend. Its a great rod esp. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Jan 21 09:57:30 2000 Subject: Re: PHY Midge On the contrary Ebay as an excellant search engine. However, the results are only as good as what it is asked to search for. Ijust tried: "bamboo fly rod" and got 178 matches. but that misses a lot of the bamboo fly rods that arelisted.I typically use: "(bamboo,cane) (fly,flyrod,rod) -(magic,sugar,sandman,walking,kite)" as my search string and that gets 300 hits. out of that 300 there are abouta dozen matches that aren't bamboo fly rods but they are usually obvious from the title. That's about 100 more hits that the simple search string. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PHY Midge Ho! Ho! Ho! I ain't that rich ! No, I meant that there were that many canerods, that I found listed under "bamboo" ! If you enter "bamboo fly rods",you often only get 5 or 6 listed. EBay has a long way to go, to make their search engine more efficient ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:43 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA, have yousaved that much versus buying the same rods via dealers? Are you acollector,or dealer?I have purchased several rods via eBay (Pezon et Michel parabolic 5wt;several 4-5 wt Hardys). I have subsequently sold all but 1 Hardy andthePezon(they just weren't what I had expected from the descriptions) via abrokerandmade a little money (which I used to buy more). I only buy them tofish,butget the impression that it wouldn't be too difficult to make a littleextrapocket change.dws. nobler wrote: I'll try it, and thanks. I found close to $40K in cane rods, by goingtobamboo. It doesn't take long to skip over the non rod stuff. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 7:09 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA,If you first go to the fishing subsection in eBay (under"miscellaneous" and"sporting goods"), then put "bamboo" in the search (WITH the "Searchonlyfishing"), you will hit only on bamboo fishing equipment (including,sometimes,creels). It typically includes only 1-2 pages.happy hunting, dws. nobler wrote: There's a PHY Midge with good photos on eBay. Starting bid is$1800,Ithinkit was ! I just put bamboo in the search, and all the bamboo rods arethere,through19 pages. Anyway, the wraps seem to be the special brown that he used. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Leitheiser" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: Pezon et Michel Salmon Rod Tom Smithwick,re the Pezon you have on e-bay....did mic the taper? Soundslikeitmight make an interesting small 2-hander. --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Jan 21 10:23:00 2000 8:32:13 PST Subject: RE: Ferrules Sean, I do as Chase stated. Ferr-L-Tite, Bohning or Gudebrod with a pin. I don't use a glue gun to apply it, but perhaps you could. I use an alcohol lamp to melt the shavings I put inside the ferrule. Once the ferrule is seated and the air comes out I twist the ferrule to insure glue covers the entire surface area inside. I then line the tabs up the way I want to and that's it. Same end result of mounting a broadhead on a wood arrow shaft. Chris Chris, Are you saying that you use a regular glue gun to mount yourferrules? Sean----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Ferrules I use hot melt glue so it fills any gaps that may be present, it isflexibleso doesn't shear, it adheres very well to metal, if you need to remove theferrule later it is easily done, and you can pin the ferrules for addedinsurance. However, in 90% of the applications there is no gap. As Isaid Iwould use the size 13 on that rod we were just discussing. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ernie Harrison" , on 1/20/00 3:36 PM: Christopher,That was explained nicely. Now I have a question, what do you fill inthe gaps between the rod and ferrule with?Ernie -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 2:01 PMSubject: re: ferrules Shawn, Your ferrule will be mounted at the 42.5" mark roughly. If youextrapolate thatpoint. I would use a size 13 ferrule in this case since the insidediameterof the ferrule is .203" which will allow you to install without removingtoomuch bamboo and only from the apex's at that. Since the ferrules willcoverabout an inch of bamboo over each section you can assume that the pointwherethe tabs meet the bamboo will be slightly more then the .197" on thefemaleand therefore you are removing slightly more bamboo, and this samepointonthe male ferrule will be slightly less so you are removing a little lessbamboo at that point. We're talking 1 or 2 thousandths is all. Chris --------Attachment(s):Headers.822 from piscator@crosswinds.net Fri Jan 21 10:33:25 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: ID Help boundary="------------75847932AF224D4F56E795C5" --------------75847932AF224D4F56E795C5 I have a short, old bamboo 2 piece with a swelled butt and a millionintermediates. After going over everything on it with a magnifyingglass all I can find is Pat. 8-3-15 stamped on the back of the tip tops. Any ideas? Brian --------------75847932AF224D4F56E795C5 I have a short, old bamboo 2 piece with a swelled butt and a million After going over everything on it with a magnifying glass all I can findisPat. 8-3-15 Brian --------------75847932AF224D4F56E795C5-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Jan 21 10:45:30 2000 8:54:40 PST Subject: re: ID Help Brian, I have a 1927 Heddon #35 Lt. with tiptops that have this same patentdate. It may only be specific to the tiptops and have nothing to do with the rods themselves, but I know at least Heddon used these tip tops. Also this #35 Lt. has closely spaced midwraps and a swelled butt which sounds similarto yours, however the rod is a 3/2 nine footer at 4.96 oz., not a short one. What type of handle and reel seat does your's have? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- I have a short, old bamboo 2 piece with a swelled butt and a millionintermediates. After going over everything on it with a magnifyingglass all I can find is Pat. 8-3-15 stamped on the back of the tip tops. Any ideas? Brian from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan 21 11:36:45 2000 Subject: Re: Sir D Iversion(with 1 Cattanach tip and 1 Sir D tip) any comments? ...> I have built the 3 piece version. It is faster and about a line weight heavier.I have actually felt no difference in making an original 2 piece Sir D intoa 4 piece. I attribute this to modern ferrules weighing less than the oldferrules (speculation) and to the rod having so much reserve power thatthe extra weight of the ferrules doesn't make that much difference.Darryl from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jan 21 12:14:52 2000 Subject: Re: Sir D Darryl,Do you think that stiffness is a more significant variable than weight inmultiple ferrules?Steve I have built the 3 piece version. It is faster and about a line weightheavier.I have actually felt no difference in making an original 2 piece Sir Dintoa 4 piece. I attribute this to modern ferrules weighing less than the oldferrules (speculation) and to the rod having so much reserve power thatthe extra weight of the ferrules doesn't make that much difference.Darryl from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Jan 21 12:45:37 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: ID Help I believe that is the patent date owned by the Perfection Tip Top Companyfor... tip tops... Can anyone point me to a good online source for search patent datespre- WWII... I think the Patent Office doesn't have the old stuff availableonline... or at least I haven't figured out how to access it... There's afew patent dates pre-WWI that I've been trying to find also... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- MCDOWELL Subject: re: ID Help Brian, I have a 1927 Heddon #35 Lt. with tiptops that have this same patentdate.It may only be specific to the tiptops and have nothing to do with the rodsthemselves, but I know at least Heddon used these tip tops. Also this #35Lt. has closely spaced midwraps and a swelled butt which sounds similartoyours, however the rod is a 3/2 nine footer at 4.96 oz., not a short one.What type of handle and reel seat does your's have? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- I have a short, old bamboo 2 piece with a swelled butt and a millionintermediates. After going over everything on it with a magnifyingglass all I can find is Pat. 8-3-15 stamped on the back of the tip tops. Any ideas? Brian from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Jan 21 12:47:17 2000 Subject: dickerson third rod Hello all. I just finished my second and third rods recently. The second was a Payne200 8 ft. 4 weight and the third was a Dickerson 7012 4 weight. I fished both of these rods up at Big Springs in Newville, PA, fishing weighted cress bugs. After fishing the Payne taper rod, it had a slight set, but I was hooking some heavy fish. The 22" brown, to be exact. The set inthe rod seemed to go away after shaking the rod and rolling it when the fishwas hooked. It seemed to come back fairly straight. The Dickerson taper rod seemed to get goofy in the tip. After a day fishing, I caught an 18" brown on that one and the tip had quite a set to it after that. I had to reheat it and straighten it. So my question is, should I be fishing weighted nymphs on these rods? I looked at one of the rod sitesand he did not recommend fishing weighted nymphs on any of the dry fly rods. Could that have caused the sets? or is this normal? I should tell you that this second rod, the Dickerson, the cane was very dog-legged _ lots of crooked pieces_ but I still used it because no other was available at the time. Any insight is appreciated. Tom NIgro from d_price@global2000.net Fri Jan 21 13:16:18 2000 OAA00834 Subject: Re: dickerson third rod Hey TomA couple of questions first, what glue are you using, how are you heattreating and are you doing allot of straightening after it's glued up?the rod should not take sets that easy.IMHO Dave Price FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: Hello all. I just finished my second and third rods recently. The second was aPayne 2008 ft. 4 weight and the third was a Dickerson 7012 4 weight. I fished both of these rods up at Big Springs in Newville, PA, fishingweighted cress bugs. After fishing the Payne taper rod, it had a slightset,but I was hooking some heavy fish. The 22" brown, to be exact. The set intherod seemed to go away after shaking the rod and rolling it when the fishwashooked. It seemed to come back fairly straight. The Dickerson taper rod seemed to get goofy in the tip. After a dayfishing,I caught an 18" brown on that one and the tip had quite a set to it afterthat. I had to reheat it and straighten it. So my question is, should I befishing weighted nymphs on these rods? I looked at one of the rod sitesandhe did not recommend fishing weighted nymphs on any of the dry fly rods.Could that have caused the sets? or is this normal? I should tell you thatthis second rod, the Dickerson, the cane was very dog-legged _ lots ofcrooked pieces_ but I still used it because no other was available at thetime. Any insight is appreciated. Tom NIgro from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 21 13:17:44 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: RE: dickerson third rod Hi Tom, It sounds as if your rods has taken some humidity for them to take a setasyou described. Are they varnished, tung oiled, or impregnated? I've caught some very heavy fish on weighted stonefly nymphs and havehadno problems with sets so I don't think the problem is the fish caught orthe flies cast. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu FlyfishT@aol.comSent: Friday, January 21, 2000 1:46 PM Subject: dickerson third rod Hello all. I just finished my second and third rods recently. The secondwas a Payne 2008 ft. 4 weight and the third was a Dickerson 7012 4 weight. I fished both of these rods up at Big Springs in Newville,PA, fishingweighted cress bugs. After fishing the Payne taper rod, ithad a slight set,but I was hooking some heavy fish. The 22" brown, to beexact. The set in therod seemed to go away after shaking the rod and rolling itwhen the fish washooked. It seemed to come back fairly straight. The Dickerson taper rod seemed to get goofy in the tip. Aftera day fishing,I caught an 18" brown on that one and the tip had quite a setto it afterthat. I had to reheat it and straighten it. So my questionis, should I befishing weighted nymphs on these rods? I looked at one of therod sites andhe did not recommend fishing weighted nymphs on any of thedry fly rods.Could that have caused the sets? or is this normal? I shouldtell you thatthis second rod, the Dickerson, the cane was very dog-legged_ lots ofcrooked pieces_ but I still used it because no other wasavailable at thetime. Any insight is appreciated. Tom NIgro from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 21 13:45:19 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:42:48 -0600 Subject: Fw: dickerson third rod Tom,I've got a few questions for you, because, I caught a 23" bow on a 6' 2wt rod with NO problems of it getting a set in it. It has, since that,landed many many trout in the 14 to 18 inch range, and still no problems.Same with one of my 4'9" 2 wts... a very delicate rod and has caught a lotof 12 to 18 inch browns and bows, and the tip and the rest of the rod arestill straight as a string. The only time I have ever had a set in any ofmy rods is when one customer leaned his against the wall out in thegarage,still ferruled up, and left it there for 3 months over the winter. No way arod should take a set from catching a fish... Well, a tarpon maybe, but nota trout! Did you heat treat your strips?What temps and how much time did you heat treat?What kind of adhesive are you using?You are using Tonkin cane, right? Sorry to be so inquisitive, just that I hate to hear that this happenedto you, and I know it isn't design problem, especially with the Payne... Iowned and fished an original 200 for years and never had any problem outofit. If you don't mind answering these questions, maybe we can figure outwhat caused the set. It could be any number of things, but actually, Idon't think it is a problem with your choice of tapers. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: FlyfishT@aol.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 12:50 PMSubject: dickerson third rod Hello all. I just finished my second and third rods recently. The second was a Payne2008 ft. 4 weight and the third was a Dickerson 7012 4 weight. I fished both of these rods up at Big Springs in Newville, PA, fishingweighted cress bugs. After fishing the Payne taper rod, it had a slightset,but I was hooking some heavy fish. The 22" brown, to be exact. The set intherod seemed to go away after shaking the rod and rolling it when the fishwashooked. It seemed to come back fairly straight. The Dickerson taper rod seemed to get goofy in the tip. After a dayfishing,I caught an 18" brown on that one and the tip had quite a set to it afterthat. I had to reheat it and straighten it. So my question is, should I befishing weighted nymphs on these rods? I looked at one of the rod sitesandhe did not recommend fishing weighted nymphs on any of the dry fly rods.Could that have caused the sets? or is this normal? I should tell you thatthis second rod, the Dickerson, the cane was very dog-legged _ lots ofcrooked pieces_ but I still used it because no other was available at thetime. Any insight is appreciated. Tom NIgro from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Jan 21 13:52:11 2000 12:01:25 PST Subject: Fishing sets Tom's question about tip sets brings up another observation. We all hate sets, I hate sets and don't want to see them develope, however, is thisonly a cosmetic dislike or is there some additional reason why a set is bad. Selfbows often follow the string and in many cases it's even desired in reducing shock. Has the rod lost any characteristics in it's ability to cast a line if it has a slight fishing set in the tip section? from brookie@frii.com Fri Jan 21 14:36:15 2000 Subject: quick thank you for info on rodbuilding classes I've been remiss in not thanking you all for your posts to me on what costmight be for rodbuilding classes. While the cost varies, depending on howmany days spent and how far down the process you want to be, there was acommon thread there. Too bad Cattanach doesn't live or come to shows inDenver ! *G* Got some leads on possible teachers, however the one thatwill probably mentor me -is- a friend who recently relocated to Colorado.Once they buy a house and he reestablishes his workshop, I'm going to divein and do at least one.again, thanks, suecolorado from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 21 14:51:53 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates Dave,ok you are a rodmaker, if you make your own cloth sacks you could alsocall yourself aseamstress!Terry Dave Price wrote: Terence I build bamboo rods from scratch, there for I'm a rodmaker. I donot sell them, I'm not a professional rodmaker. Hand planing rods withthe accuracy of +- less than a mill at each station and ending up with agood finished product is what all the fun is in this pastime. If I had arod that was pumped through a machine I think I would opt for plastic.Save you're pissing contests for George :-). Dave TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: He was a Railroad Engineer and an amateur rodmaker. Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrods withoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 21 14:55:47 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates What have a bunch of shaving makers got to do with Van Gough?A reality check is certainly in order.Terry David Kashuba wrote: Terry- ....and Van Gough was not a painter. David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 21 15:11:37 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates A.Ja while back I contacted Bob Summers and suggested the rodmakers list tohim and hereplied that he was too busy making rods, fishing and hunting.The guy is really missing out eh!Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrods withoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten Garrison, as most of us was a very talented amateur. A book does not aprofessional make. Indeed a true professional would probably be loath topublish a detailed account of how to compete with themself. And whywould they set aside the time?A.J.Thramer from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Jan 21 15:50:07 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Sir D Darryl wrote I have built the 3 piece version. It is faster and about a line weight heavier.I have actually felt no difference in making an original 2 piece Sir D intoa 4 piece. I attribute this to modern ferrules weighing less than the oldferrules (speculation) and to the rod having so much reserve power thatthe extra weight of the ferrules doesn't make that much difference.Darryl Darryl Could You please report on the length of each of the four pieces?Sounds like a "must do" regards, Carsten from djk762@hotmail.com Fri Jan 21 16:15:38 2000 Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:15:04 PST Subject: RE: Time Estimates Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuch pay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more than a consumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri Jan 21 16:34:01 2000 , Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS Yep, my brother - antique reproductions - used glass for the majority ofhisscraping, although he used a glass cutter to get straight edges. He hatedburnishing. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS If you really want cheap on a scraper take a scrap piece of window glassputit on the bench and hit it wiyh a hammer. use a small shard of the brokenglass for a scraper. when it gets dull throw it away and take anotherlittlepiece. No sharpening involved. We are talking cheap!Dave N.-----Original Message----- From: Karen and Sean Moran rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:14 PMSubject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS Tom, I can't help you with #1. #2----- Try using a cabinet scraperwithanice sharp burr. Sean----- Original Message -----From: TOM PETERS Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:46 PMSubject: NEWBIE QUESTIONS 1. WHERE IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A THEROMETER FOR AA HEAT GUN OVEN AT A REASONABLE COST? 2. WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE FOR A SCRAPERTHAT IS CHEAPER THAN A L-N 212? TOM from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 21 16:58:11 2000 Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:57:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Sir D I was looking at these tapers and thought that the 6'3" 2 wt would benice. Onfurther examination I figured by my calculations, at stn#25(.114) and stn#50(.177)you would need a #7 and a #11 ferrule, respectively. Only problem is anyplace I look Also, are the taper for standard or truncated ferrules? I had thought oftryingtruncated.One thing that struck me as funny is that the action length is only 65",why notthe full length of the rod into the grip? I have to admit I've never movednumbersaround in a taper like this so I'm way out of my league here. Thanks for thehelp(pastand future),Shawn Art Port wrote: Shawn,I saved these from the Archives when Wayne posted them. I madetheoriginal and loved it so I wanted the whole shebang: Subject: The Sir D Series The following is a work up of a series of tapers based on the 7' Sir Dfavorite. I have stretched the stress graph to develop a 7' 6" and shortedit to accommodate a 6' 3" after the curves were developed they were ranthrough Hexrod to create dimensions for #2 - #3 - #4 weight rods inboth 2& 3 piece rods. The stress curves are as follows: 65" action length tip - 452505 - 21195010 - 27175015 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 15915030 - 14725035 - 12692540 - 11040045 - 12130050 - 13490055 - 11727560 - 11687565 - 101050 80" action lengthtip - 452505 - 21195010 - 27175015 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 16345030 - 15250035 - 14700040 - 14265045 - 12692550 - 11040055 - 12130060 - 13490065 - 11772570 - 11727575 - 11687580 - 101050 To maintain the full character the peaks and valleys were moved totheclosest 5" increment that is why several stress values are the same. Thefirst column is the 2-pc, the second, the 3-pc. 6' 3" #2 tip - .054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .114 .11430 .126 .12835 .143 .14740 .162 .16545 .170 .17250 .176 .17755 .197 .19860 .210 .21265 .233 .23670 .233 .23675 .233 .236 6' 3" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .126 .12630 .139 .14135 .157 .16140 .178 .18245 .186 .18850 .192 .19355 .214 .21660 .228 .23065 .253 .25670 .253 .25675 .253 .256 6' 3" #4 tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .120 .12025 .135 .13530 .149 .15235 .168 .17240 .189 .19445 .198 .20050 .204 .20655 .227 .23060 .241 .24565 .267 .27270 .267 .27275 .267 .272 7' 6" #2 tip .054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .113 .11330 .125 .12535 .136 .13840 .147 .15045 .164 .16750 .185 .18755 .192 .19360 .196 .19765 .219 .21970 .232 .23375 .245 .24780 .271 .27385 .271 .27390 .271 .273 7' 6" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .124 .12430 .138 .13835 .150 .15240 .162 .16545 .179 .18350 .202 .20455 .209 .21060 .214 .21565 .237 .23870 .251 .25375 .264 .26780 .291 .29585 .291 .29590 .291 .295 7' 6" #4tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .119 .11925 .133 .13330 .148 .14835 .160 .16240 .172 .17545 .190 .19550 .214 .21755 .221 .22360 .226 .22765 .251 .25270 .265 .26775 .279 .28180 .307 .31085 .307 .31090 .307 .310 The narrowness between the 2 and 3 piece dimensions reflect somefinetuning I have done on the ferrule weights that I am using.What will perhaps shock a few - I have never fished the 7' #4. I madeone, I have lawn cast a couple and I was going to fish it. But as we weresuiting up at the Broomhead Bridge on the N. Branch of the Boardman Isetthe rod case on top of my Jimmy. The horror was when the rod case felloffthe roof.Falling into pure sand the rod case split in half and took the rod with it.Never use highly burled walnut in a wooden rod case. Ron glued the case -it broke in two again as I lifted it up. The rod was beyond repair - Ronjust shrugged his shoulders - not responsible. I don't know how you're ever gonna pay your dues if I keep doing thisbut,hey, what-th'-hell! *G*I would have killed for them if someone would have done this forme when Iwas starting out on the Archives!Enjoy,Art At 06:52 AM 01/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:I have an idea and was wondering if anyone could help me out. For mynext rod I was thinking of building the Cattanach 7'0 4wt in the 3 pcversion(with 1 Cattanach tip and 1 Sir D tip) any comments? Looking atthe graph, there doesn't seem to be much diff in the casting actionbetween the 2pc and 3pc ,anyone know? Also I was thinking of trying toconvert the taper to something smaller, say a 2 wt? I haven't quitefigured out how to do it on the rodmaker site yet, does anyone have thetaper or does it wreck the action when you reduce the line size? Hasanyone else tried this or am I the only sick individual ? Thanks,Shawn from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:24:05 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Sir D Could You please report on the length of each of the four pieces?Sounds like a "must do" All equal length - 21.75 inches (.75 or so overlap of the ferrules).Darryl from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan 21 17:36:43 2000 Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:36:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Sir D Shawn,Action length on all Wayne's rods, as far as I know, ends at the grip. Most rodsdon't flex much under the cork! As for the #7 ferrules, you're on your own. I've made 3copies that rod in the 7'6" 2 weight (1-2pc, 2-3pc), and two in the 7'6" 4weight. Youwon't go wrong. What you need to understand is that the tapers posted byWayne were doneas an example of how one might use Hexrod to convert one taper intoanother.Are you listening, Wayne? Correct me if I misunderstood somethinghere. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: I was looking at these tapers and thought that the 6'3" 2 wt would benice. Onfurther examination I figured by my calculations, at stn#25(.114) andstn #50(.177)you would need a #7 and a #11 ferrule, respectively. Only problem is anyplace I look Also, are the taper for standard or truncated ferrules? I had thoughtof tryingtruncated.One thing that struck me as funny is that the action length is only65", why notthe full length of the rod into the grip? I have to admit I've never movednumbersaround in a taper like this so I'm way out of my league here. Thanks forthe help(pastand future),Shawn Art Port wrote: Shawn,I saved these from the Archives when Wayne posted them. I madetheoriginal and loved it so I wanted the whole shebang: Subject: The Sir D Series The following is a work up of a series of tapers based on the 7' Sir Dfavorite. I have stretched the stress graph to develop a 7' 6" andshortedit to accommodate a 6' 3" after the curves were developed they wereranthrough Hexrod to create dimensions for #2 - #3 - #4 weight rods inboth 2& 3 piece rods. The stress curves are as follows: 65" action length tip - 452505 - 21195010 - 27175015 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 15915030 - 14725035 - 12692540 - 11040045 - 12130050 - 13490055 - 11727560 - 11687565 - 101050 80" action lengthtip - 452505 - 21195010 - 27175015 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 16345030 - 15250035 - 14700040 - 14265045 - 12692550 - 11040055 - 12130060 - 13490065 - 11772570 - 11727575 - 11687580 - 101050 To maintain the full character the peaks and valleys were movedto theclosest 5" increment that is why several stress values are the same.Thefirst column is the 2-pc, the second, the 3-pc. 6' 3" #2 tip - .054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .114 .11430 .126 .12835 .143 .14740 .162 .16545 .170 .17250 .176 .17755 .197 .19860 .210 .21265 .233 .23670 .233 .23675 .233 .236 6' 3" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .126 .12630 .139 .14135 .157 .16140 .178 .18245 .186 .18850 .192 .19355 .214 .21660 .228 .23065 .253 .25670 .253 .25675 .253 .256 6' 3" #4 tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .120 .12025 .135 .13530 .149 .15235 .168 .17240 .189 .19445 .198 .20050 .204 .20655 .227 .23060 .241 .24565 .267 .27270 .267 .27275 .267 .272 7' 6" #2 tip .054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .113 .11330 .125 .12535 .136 .13840 .147 .15045 .164 .16750 .185 .18755 .192 .19360 .196 .19765 .219 .21970 .232 .23375 .245 .24780 .271 .27385 .271 .27390 .271 .273 7' 6" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .124 .12430 .138 .13835 .150 .15240 .162 .16545 .179 .18350 .202 .20455 .209 .21060 .214 .21565 .237 .23870 .251 .25375 .264 .26780 .291 .29585 .291 .29590 .291 .295 7' 6" #4tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .119 .11925 .133 .13330 .148 .14835 .160 .16240 .172 .17545 .190 .19550 .214 .21755 .221 .22360 .226 .22765 .251 .25270 .265 .26775 .279 .28180 .307 .31085 .307 .31090 .307 .310 The narrowness between the 2 and 3 piece dimensions reflect somefinetuning I have done on the ferrule weights that I am using.What will perhaps shock a few - I have never fished the 7' #4. I madeone, I have lawn cast a couple and I was going to fish it. But as weweresuiting up at the Broomhead Bridge on the N. Branch of the Boardman Isetthe rod case on top of my Jimmy. The horror was when the rod case felloffthe roof.Falling into pure sand the rod case split in half and took the rod withit.Never use highly burled walnut in a wooden rod case. Ron glued the case-it broke in two again as I lifted it up. The rod was beyond repair - Ronjust shrugged his shoulders - not responsible. I don't know how you're ever gonna pay your dues if I keep doingthis but,hey, what-th'-hell! *G*I would have killed for them if someone would have done this forme when Iwas starting out on the Archives!Enjoy,Art At 06:52 AM 01/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:I have an idea and was wondering if anyone could help me out. For mynext rod I was thinking of building the Cattanach 7'0 4wt in the 3 pcversion(with 1 Cattanach tip and 1 Sir D tip) any comments? Lookingatthe graph, there doesn't seem to be much diff in the casting actionbetween the 2pc and 3pc ,anyone know? Also I was thinking of tryingtoconvert the taper to something smaller, say a 2 wt? I haven't quitefigured out how to do it on the rodmaker site yet, does anyone havethetaper or does it wreck the action when you reduce the line size? Hasanyone else tried this or am I the only sick individual ? Thanks,Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan 21 17:52:46 2000 Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:52:33 -0800 Subject: Re: quick thank you for info on rodbuilding classes Sue,Nobody, but nobody, can do just one!! Harry sue kreutzer wrote: Once they buy a house and he reestablishes his workshop, I'm going todivein and do at least one.again, thanks, suecolorado from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Jan 21 18:49:12 2000 Subject: Re: Sir D Shawn, I've built both 2 and 3 pc versions of the Sir "D". I like them both. The 3 piece is my pack rod and I've had great success with it. It is slightly stiffer than the 2 pc due to the extra ferrule. I used the regular length ferrules on both. There have been a number of posts about the shorter ferrules not flexing enough and breaking the rod at the ferrule bamboo junction. Go for it. Mark Cole from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 21 18:50:55 2000 Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:50:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Sv: Sir D So you just took the original Sir D pattern and put 3 ferrules inwithout changing any dimensions? What did the rod feel like after that?Did it change the line weight?If you did change the dimensions could I have them and did you haveany problem finding small enough ferrules. I can't even manage to find a#7 for the 3pcs 2wt 6'3" I was going to build!,Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Could You please report on the length of each of the four pieces?Sounds like a "must do" All equal length - 21.75 inches (.75 or so overlap of the ferrules).Darryl from seanmcs@ar.com.au Fri Jan 21 19:12:58 2000 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:16:42 +1100 Subject: Re: PHY Midge Paul: I tried the string you suggested and got 12,964 entries thatincluded all sorts of oddities. Is there more precision on the searchcriteria, i.e is there a space problem around the minus sign? Thanks. Sean PMG wrote: On the contrary Ebay as an excellant search engine. However, the results are only as good as what it is asked to search for. Ijust tried: "bamboo fly rod" and got 178 matches. but that misses a lot of the bamboo fly rods thatarelisted.I typically use: "(bamboo,cane) (fly,flyrod,rod) -(magic,sugar,sandman,walking,kite)" as my search string and that gets 300 hits. out of that 300 there areabouta dozen matches that aren't bamboo fly rods but they are usually obvious from the title. That's about 100 more hits that the simple search string. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:08 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge Ho! Ho! Ho! I ain't that rich ! No, I meant that there were that many canerods, that I found listed under "bamboo" ! If you enter "bamboo fly rods",you often only get 5 or 6 listed. EBay has a long way to go, to make their search engine more efficient ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:43 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA, have yousaved that much versus buying the same rods via dealers? Are you acollector,or dealer?I have purchased several rods via eBay (Pezon et Michel parabolic 5wt;several 4-5 wt Hardys). I have subsequently sold all but 1 Hardy andthePezon(they just weren't what I had expected from the descriptions) via abrokerandmade a little money (which I used to buy more). I only buy them tofish,butget the impression that it wouldn't be too difficult to make a littleextrapocket change.dws. nobler wrote: I'll try it, and thanks. I found close to $40K in cane rods, by goingtobamboo. It doesn't take long to skip over the non rod stuff. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 7:09 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA,If you first go to the fishing subsection in eBay (under"miscellaneous" and"sporting goods"), then put "bamboo" in the search (WITH the"Searchonlyfishing"), you will hit only on bamboo fishing equipment(including,sometimes,creels). It typically includes only 1-2 pages.happy hunting, dws. nobler wrote: There's a PHY Midge with good photos on eBay. Starting bid is$1800,Ithinkit was ! I just put bamboo in the search, and all the bamboo rods arethere,through19 pages. Anyway, the wraps seem to be the special brown that he used. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Leitheiser" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: Pezon et Michel Salmon Rod Tom Smithwick,re the Pezon you have on e-bay....did mic the taper? Soundslikeitmight make an interesting small 2-hander. --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Jan 21 20:38:51 2000 Subject: dickerson third rod I'll try to respond to all the responses _ thank you! It seems that everyone is saying similar things, that my problem is due to heat treating and moisture. The cane was flamed, tiger striped. It did sitin the shop and I did not have it in dessicant tubes. I assume that I should have, living in Pennsylvania where the humidity is very high and with no dehumidifier. After planing the splines, I always bind it and put it in the heating oven ammonium chloride. After gluing, I let it sit overnight and in the morning put it in the oven at about 140 degrees for an hour. When I sand the glue off, I tryto put tongue oil on it right away to prevent moisture and reentry. Do you guys suggest to always put the splines in dessicant tubes? orpossibly run a dehumidifier? What are your suggestions? Thanks Tom N. from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 21 20:46:40 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:37:04 -0600 Subject: Re: PHY Midge I just tried all these suggestions for getting all the cane rod listings oneBay. Only one, bamboo fly rods, got three items. All the rest said they hadno such listing ! I'm doing this from the general fishing tackle site ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PHY Midge Paul: I tried the string you suggested and got 12,964 entries thatincluded all sorts of oddities. Is there more precision on the searchcriteria, i.e is there a space problem around the minus sign? Thanks.Sean PMG wrote: On the contrary Ebay as an excellant search engine. However, the results are only as good as what it is asked to search for.Ijust tried: "bamboo fly rod" and got 178 matches. but that misses a lot of the bamboo fly rods thatarelisted.I typically use: "(bamboo,cane) (fly,flyrod,rod) -(magic,sugar,sandman,walking,kite)" as my search string and that gets 300 hits. out of that 300 there areabouta dozen matches that aren't bamboo fly rods but they are usuallyobvious from the title. That's about 100 more hits that the simple searchstring. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:08 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge Ho! Ho! Ho! I ain't that rich ! No, I meant that there were that manycanerods, that I found listed under "bamboo" ! If you enter "bamboo flyrods",you often only get 5 or 6 listed. EBay has a long way to go, to make their search engine more efficient! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:43 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA, orhave yousaved that much versus buying the same rods via dealers? Are you acollector,or dealer?I have purchased several rods via eBay (Pezon et Michelparabolic 5wt;several 4-5 wt Hardys). I have subsequently sold all but 1 HardyandthePezon(they just weren't what I had expected from the descriptions) via abrokerandmade a little money (which I used to buy more). I only buy them tofish,butget the impression that it wouldn't be too difficult to make alittleextrapocket change.dws. nobler wrote: I'll try it, and thanks. I found close to $40K in cane rods, bygoingtobamboo. It doesn't take long to skip over the non rod stuff. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 7:09 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA,If you first go to the fishing subsection in eBay (under"miscellaneous" and"sporting goods"), then put "bamboo" in the search (WITH the"Searchonlyfishing"), you will hit only on bamboo fishing equipment(including,sometimes,creels). It typically includes only 1-2 pages.happy hunting, dws. nobler wrote: There's a PHY Midge with good photos on eBay. Starting bid is$1800,Ithinkit was ! I just put bamboo in the search, and all the bamboo rods arethere,through19 pages. Anyway, the wraps seem to be the special brown that he used. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Leitheiser" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: Pezon et Michel Salmon Rod Tom Smithwick,re the Pezon you have on e-bay....did mic the taper? Soundslikeitmight make an interesting small 2-hander. --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan 21 21:05:39 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Sir D So you just took the original Sir D pattern and put 3 ferrules inwithout changing any dimensions? Yup. What did the rod feel like after that? Not much difference. Like I said, the taper has enough backboneto stand up to the extra weight. Did it change the line weight? A matter of opinion. I don't think it did. If you did change the dimensions could I have them and did you haveany problem finding small enough ferrules. I can't even manage to find a#7 for the 3pcs 2wt 6'3" I was going to build!, Taper is the same as the 2 piece. In fact it was a completed 2 piece, andI cut it at the appropriate places and installed ferrules to make it a 4 piece.You are right, the smallest ferrule I can find is 8/64. You have to shim therod a bit to use an 8/64 for the tip section.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 21 21:07:37 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:05:01 -0600 Subject: Re: dickerson third rod Tom,My opinion is that the sets are caused by improper heat treating.Flaming does temper cane somewhat, however it is a very uneven processand,in my opinion, should not be used in lieu of normal heat treating. You needto heat treat your straight strips (or tapered, oversized strips) for 7minutes at 375 deg farenheit. Believe me, this will make a world ofdifference in the finished rod. It should not take a set from mere fishingpressure if you heat treat like this.As for the desicant tubes, that is a good idea, or if your house hascentral heat and air, then the humidity inside your house will be muchlower, as a central heat and air unit, acts as a dehumidifier of sorts.(Dick Fuhrman is a heat and air professional... am I right about this,Dick?) Humidity re-entering the strips may be a contributing factor totheproblem, but should not, on it's own, cause the kind of set problems youarehaving.The glue is definitely not your problem. I use the same as you,URAC, and have not had any problems with sets in my rods, unlesssomeonemistreats them as I described in the first mail I sent you.Try the heat treating on your next rod, then keep the glued upsections either in a curing box or in a PVC tube with dessicant in it andI'll just about bet you'll see a world of difference in the rods durability. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: dickerson third rod I'll try to respond to all the responses _ thank you! It seems that everyone is saying similar things, that my problem is due toheat treating and moisture. The cane was flamed, tiger striped. It did sitinthe shop and I did not have it in dessicant tubes. I assume that I shouldhave, living in Pennsylvania where the humidity is very high and with nodehumidifier. After planing the splines, I always bind it and put it in the heating oven ammoniumchloride. After gluing, I let it sit overnight and in the morning put it inthe oven at about 140 degrees for an hour. When I sand the glue off, I trytoput tongue oil on it right away to prevent moisture and reentry. Do you guys suggest to always put the splines in dessicant tubes? orpossiblyrun a dehumidifier? What are your suggestions? Thanks Tom N. from channer@outerbounds.net Fri Jan 21 21:19:06 2000 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:19:36 -0700 Subject: Re: PHY Midge At 08:47 PM 01/21/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:I just tried all these suggestions for getting all the cane rod listings oneBay. Only one, bamboo fly rods, got three items. All the rest said theyhadno such listing ! I'm doing this from the general fishing tackle site ! GMAGeorge;I searched for bamboo fly rod in titles and descriptions and left the box John from plaisanc@pacifier.com Fri Jan 21 21:30:59 2000 Subject: NEWBIE QUESTIONS boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6446.0F19CA60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6446.0F19CA60 HELLO GUYS,I AM VERY INTERESTED IN BUILDING MY OWN RODS.I WOULDGREATLY =APPRECIATE ANY INFO YOU FEEL LIKE SHARING.WHERE DO I GET A PLANINGFORM? =THANKS ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6446.0F19CA60 HELLO GUYS,I AM VERY INTERESTED IN = RODS.I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INFO YOU FEEL LIKESHARING.WHERE DO = PLANING FORM? THANKS ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6446.0F19CA60-- from cadams46@juno.com Fri Jan 21 22:18:44 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswBNdELy7G7LauuLcku90CvobBiiYw6PNnw==" 23:17:57 EST Subject: Re: dickerson third rod All this talk of sets has me a little concerned. I haven't noticed anysets in my rods but so far I've given most of them away and hardly fishthe ones I have. My question is I use Gorrila glue and since I live in afairly dry area (45% in my shop currently) I spray the strips with waterbefore I glue up. I heat treat prior to that but do you think the polewill take on enough moisture to cause a set or does the glue use all thatexcess moisture in its curing? Anyone else that uses gorilla glue? Thanks in advanceC.R. Adams from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 21 22:34:13 2000 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 00:34:01 -0400 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS boundary="------------4DB429D00BFCEA1439DB988C" --------------4DB429D00BFCEA1439DB988C Robert,if you are in the lucky situation of being in the UnitedStates near someone who builds (believe me they are out there, you justdon't usually find them till ya struggle for a couple years like me!)try and hook up with them. Sometimes they will share their tools withyou and this can get you off to a way faster start! Believe me, makingall the tools that you will eventually need is the longest,leastenjoyable part, unless of course you have the money to buy tools(MMMMM),in which case you are laughing!You are already of to a good start, there is a vast amount ofknowledge here, some of the finest craftsmen you'll ever find!! The guyshere are more than willing to help out.Hmmmm , forms..... ah yes I remember it well!!! I built my own fromscratch, metal ones. Not my favorite part of rodbuilding, no siree. Itcan be done and cheaply but be prepared for a long haul. Many a longnight I worked on those @3$$%#%% and many a night I considered payingwhatever it cost to buy a set.But in the end,many,many calluses and curses later I take greatsatisfaction in looking down a fresh planed strip and think "wow, theseforms are great, and I did it with my bare( and I do mean BARE!!)hands!!If none of the above sounds appealing, you can find lots of goodplaces that show how to make wooden forms that will more thansuffice.(just ask me where).If you wish to buy there are good forms to be had (just ask mewhere).Classes are another option if you have them near you(just ask where) Best of luck ,Shawn Pineo Robert Plaisance wrote: HELLO GUYS,I AM VERY INTERESTED IN BUILDING MY OWN RODS.I WOULDGREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INFO YOU FEEL LIKE SHARING.WHERE DO I GET APLANING FORM? THANKS --------------4DB429D00BFCEA1439DB988C Robert, if you are in the lucky situation of being in the United States nearsomeonewho builds (believe me they are out there, you just don't usually findthem till ya struggle for a couple years like me!) try and hook up withthem. Sometimes they will share their tools with you and this can get youoff to a way faster start! Believe me, making all the tools that you willeventually need is the longest,least enjoyable part, unless of course youhave the money to buy tools(MMMMM), in which case you are laughing! of knowledge here, some of the finest craftsmen you'll ever find!! Theguys here are more than willing to help out. my own from scratch, metal ones. Not my favorite part of rodbuilding, nosiree. It can be done and cheaply but be prepared for a long haul. Manya long night I worked on those @3$$%#%% and many a night I consideredpayingwhatever it cost to buy a set.But in the end,many,many calluses and curses later I take greatsatisfactionin looking down a fresh planed strip and think "wow, these forms aregreat,and I did it with my bare( and I do mean BARE!!) hands!! can find lots of good places that show how to make wooden forms thatwillmore than suffice.(just ask me where). be had (just ask me where). you(just ask where) Shawn Pineo Robert Plaisance wrote: HELLOGUYS,I AM VERY INTERESTED IN BUILDING MY OWN RODS.I WOULD GREATLYAPPRECIATEANY INFO YOU FEEL LIKE SHARING.WHERE DO I GET A PLANING FORM?THANKS --------------4DB429D00BFCEA1439DB988C-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 21 22:53:02 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more than aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 22 07:52:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:52:41 -0600 Subject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01BF64AD.BE9AD080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BF64AD.BE9AD080 This brings up an interesting thing, in that there are rodmakers, most =everywhere ! I was in a Woodcraft store last week, looking at their ="tool paradise", and was told that they have a regular customer, that is =building cane rods ! I sure hope to find out who it is, so I can see if =he's sociable ! GMA Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:26 PMSubject: Re: NEWBIE QUESTIONS if you are in the lucky situation of being in the United =States near someone who builds (believe me they are out there, you just =don't usually find them till ya struggle for a couple years like me!) =try and hook up with them. Sometimes they will share their tools with =you and this can get you off to a way faster start! Believe me, making =all the tools that you will eventually need is the longest,least =enjoyable part, unless of course you have the money to buy tools(MMMMM),= You are already of to a good start, there is a vast amount of =knowledge here, some of the finest craftsmen you'll ever find!! The guys = Hmmmm , forms..... ah yes I remember it well!!! I built my own from =scratch, metal ones. Not my favorite part of rodbuilding, no siree. It =can be done and cheaply but be prepared for a long haul. Many a long =night I worked on those @3$$%#%% and many a night I considered paying = But in the end,many,many calluses and curses later I take great =satisfaction in looking down a fresh planed strip and think "wow, these =forms are great, and I did it with my bare( and I do mean BARE!!) = If none of the above sounds appealing, you can find lots of good =places that show how to make wooden forms that will more than = If you wish to buy there are good forms to be had (just ask me = Classes are another option if you have them near you(just ask = HELLO GUYS,I AM VERY INTERESTED IN BUILDING MY OWN RODS.I WOULD =GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INFO YOU FEEL LIKE SHARING.WHERE DO I GET A =PLANING FORM? THANKS ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BF64AD.BE9AD080 This brings up an interesting thing, in that= rodmakers, most everywhere ! I was in a Woodcraft store last week, = their "tool paradise", and was told that they have a regular customer, = building cane rods ! I sure hope to find out who it is, so I can see if = sociable ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Shawn Pineo Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: NEWBIE =QUESTIONS are in the lucky situation of being in the United States near someone = builds (believe me they are out there, you just don't usually find = ya struggle for a couple years like me!) try and hook up with them. = they will share their tools with you and this can get you off to a way = start! Believe me, making all the tools that you will eventually need = longest,least enjoyable part, unless of course you have the money to = = of to a good start, there is a vast amount of knowledge here, some of = finest craftsmen you'll ever find!! The guys here are more than = built my own from scratch, metal ones. Not my favorite part of = siree. It can be done and cheaply but be prepared for a long haul. = night I worked on those @3$$%#%% and many a night I considered paying= it cost to buy a set. But in the end,many,many calluses and curses = take great satisfaction in looking down a fresh planed strip and think = these forms are great, and I did it with my bare( and I do mean = you can find lots of good places that show how to make wooden forms = = = HELLO GUYS,I AM VERYINTERESTED = MY OWN RODS.I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INFO YOU FEEL LIKE = THANKS ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BF64AD.BE9AD080-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat Jan 22 08:01:33 2000 Subject: Re: PHY Midge Hi, Take the quotes off of the string. Also I do the search of the whole Ebay site and have the searchdescriptionsbox checked. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PHY Midge Paul: I tried the string you suggested and got 12,964 entries thatincluded all sorts of oddities. Is there more precision on the searchcriteria, i.e is there a space problem around the minus sign? Thanks.Sean PMG wrote: On the contrary Ebay as an excellant search engine. However, the results are only as good as what it is asked to search for.Ijust tried: "bamboo fly rod" and got 178 matches. but that misses a lot of the bamboo fly rods thatarelisted.I typically use: "(bamboo,cane) (fly,flyrod,rod) -(magic,sugar,sandman,walking,kite)" as my search string and that gets 300 hits. out of that 300 there areabouta dozen matches that aren't bamboo fly rods but they are usuallyobvious from the title. That's about 100 more hits that the simple searchstring. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:08 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge Ho! Ho! Ho! I ain't that rich ! No, I meant that there were that manycanerods, that I found listed under "bamboo" ! If you enter "bamboo flyrods",you often only get 5 or 6 listed. EBay has a long way to go, to make their search engine more efficient! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:43 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA, orhave yousaved that much versus buying the same rods via dealers? Are you acollector,or dealer?I have purchased several rods via eBay (Pezon et Michelparabolic 5wt;several 4-5 wt Hardys). I have subsequently sold all but 1 HardyandthePezon(they just weren't what I had expected from the descriptions) via abrokerandmade a little money (which I used to buy more). I only buy them tofish,butget the impression that it wouldn't be too difficult to make alittleextrapocket change.dws. nobler wrote: I'll try it, and thanks. I found close to $40K in cane rods, bygoingtobamboo. It doesn't take long to skip over the non rod stuff. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 7:09 AMSubject: Re: PHY Midge GMA,If you first go to the fishing subsection in eBay (under"miscellaneous" and"sporting goods"), then put "bamboo" in the search (WITH the"Searchonlyfishing"), you will hit only on bamboo fishing equipment(including,sometimes,creels). It typically includes only 1-2 pages.happy hunting, dws. nobler wrote: There's a PHY Midge with good photos on eBay. Starting bid is$1800,Ithinkit was ! I just put bamboo in the search, and all the bamboo rods arethere,through19 pages. Anyway, the wraps seem to be the special brown that he used. GMA> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Leitheiser" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 9:40 PMSubject: Pezon et Michel Salmon Rod Tom Smithwick,re the Pezon you have on e-bay....did mic the taper? Soundslikeitmight make an interesting small 2-hander. --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat Jan 22 08:18:26 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates Terry, Thank you for volunteering. I've always wanted to see if the "blockedsender"feature on my mail reader worked and now I have a test case. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more thanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from FlyfishT@aol.com Sat Jan 22 09:17:40 2000 Subject: dickerson 7012 Steve, Here is the 7012 taper (and anyone else that would like to have it). I really like this taper best out of all the bamboo I've cast so far. Deduct .006 from the butt section, .004 from the tip for varnish. Tom N. Butt Tip0 .326 .1805 .326 .16810 .310 .15915 .258 .14420 .245 .13025 .232 .11530 .216 .09935 .207 .08640 .200 .07042 .194 .066 from joninc@nac.net Sat Jan 22 09:42:35 2000 Subject: Thank You boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF64C7.9A0EE480" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF64C7.9A0EE480 I've finally done it! The exhilaration I feel at finishing tapering thelast strip of my first rod is remarkable! I know I have a long way to go, but I feel such a sense of accomplishmentand pride in just getting this far! The strips are not perfect (closer than I thought they'd be!), and I knowwhere I've made my mistakes, I can't wait to move on. But let me get to the real reason for this post: I've been lurking on this list for over a year now. I haven't been anactive participant - most of the questions that I'd had were asked andanswered in just reading the postings. I would have never, ever, gotten these strips planned if it weren't for thepatient, kind, experienced advice from the members of this list. I thankyou all for allowing me the privilege of being a part of your informationexchange. I know that a simple thank you is not enough, but it is all Ihave to offer at this time. As my experience grows, and my confidence as well, I will strive to helpother new rodmakers (sorry Terry!) as you all have helped me - this Ibelieve is the ultimate "thank you" that I can afford. John F. Incantalupojoninc@nac.net ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF64C7.9A0EE480 Normal0DocumentEmail =0=0 I've finally done it!=A0The exhilaration I feel at finishing tapering the last strip of =my firstrod is remarkable! I know I have a long way to go, but I feel such a =sense ofaccomplishment and pride in just getting this =far! The strips are not perfect (closer than I thought =they'd be!),and I know where I've made my mistakes, I can't wait to move =on. But let me get to the real reason for this =post: I've been lurking on this list for over a year =now.=A0 I haven't been an active =participant - mostof the questions that I'd had were asked and answered in just reading =thepostings. I would have never, ever, gotten these strips planned=if itweren't for the patient, kind, experienced advice from the members of =thislist.=A0 I thank you all for =allowing methe privilege of being a part of your information exchange.=A0 I know that a simple thank you is=not enough,but it is all I have to offer at this time.=A0 As my experience grows, and my confidence as well, I=willstrive to help other new rodmakers (sorry Terry!) as you all have helped =me -this I believe is the ultimate "thank you" that I can =afford. =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =Signature" John F.Incantalupo joninc@nac.net ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF64C7.9A0EE480-- from vkings@juno.com Sat Jan 22 09:56:11 2000 "p6l86xe7B71ADBQzx1bp5/VCFopxPszQC1gtils0QdypiTnGrNs8Iw==" 10:55:48 EST Subject: Gorrila Glue C.R.Adams: I have two rods glued with this .One has been in use for overa year.Used for trout and small mouth bass.My tester said that he has hadno problems with it at all.Sets or other wise.the other is a 6'0" onepiece,which I've used several times.This rod has picked up a slightset.But I believe its from being in the tube with not to much supportalong the lenght. R.L. On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:15:30 -0700 Chase R Adams writes:All this talk of sets has me a little concerned. I haven't noticed any sets in my rods but so far I've given most of them away and hardly fish the ones I have. My question is I use Gorrila glue and since I live in a fairly dry area (45% in my shop currently) I spray the strips with water before I glue up. I heat treat prior to that but do you think the pole will take on enough moisture to cause a set or does the glue use all that excess moisture in its curing? Anyone else that uses gorilla glue? Thanks in advanceC.R. Adams from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Jan 22 10:14:33 2000 "'djk762@hotmail.com '" Subject: RE: Time Estimates One of the main reasons I like you guys is the comparisons made to VanGoghetc. My other friends talk about me mainly in terms of Curly or Moe. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more thanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 22 10:21:30 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:19:02 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Time Estimates boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0190_01BF64C2.2A5C7A80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01BF64C2.2A5C7A80 Geez, thanks for the idea! You know, I never really considered the =relationship before, but I was a luthier (coincidentally, I specialized =in making violins *S*) long before I started making cane rods (hesitate =to call myself a rodmaker because even though this is my sole "job", I =do have my Air Force retirement also, so not sure if that falls under =the definition of being a REAL rodmaker or not). I always worried that =the name NUNLEY might not have that certain ring to it that names like =Garrison, Payne, Young, etc have! Maybe I'll check into what it would =involve to change it... hmmmm what could we try Robert Antonio?Bobby Strad?how about we just leave Antonio Stradivarius completely out of =this and try...Francesco Andreas Gillum Stainer, rodmakerthat would cover Francesco Rugerri, Andreas Guarnerius and =Jacob Stainer, three pretty fair fiddle builders (dont know if you could =call them violin makers or not, because none of them did it full time as =a living, even though their instruments are among the finest) and Pinky =Gillum, a great rodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I go for... or do =you think that would be a little to presumptious of me... yeah probably =so... better leave the Gillum out of it and just use the other three =names. Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myself a "real" =rodmaker...Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I think I'll take my =Harley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop and have my =road name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in place of it too, =and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirement income!"I think I got it covered now... I can compare myself to great =craftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimer mentioning =the USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a "real" =rodmaker. Tight lines,F. A. Stainer (aka Bob)-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not get =muchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more =than aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01BF64C2.2A5C7A80 Terry, really considered the relationship before, but I was a luthier = I specialized in making violins *S*) long before I started making cane = (hesitate to call myself a rodmaker because even though this is my "job", I do have my Air Force retirement also, so not sure if = worried that the name NUNLEY might not have that certain ring to it that = involve to change it... hmmmm what could we try leave = Stradivarius completely out of this and try... Francesco Andreas Gillum Stainer, rodmaker p; that would cover Francesco Rugerri, Andreas Guarnerius and = three pretty fair fiddle builders (dont know if you could call them = makers or not, because none of them did it full time as a living, even = their instruments are among the finest) and Pinky Gillum, a great = Hmmmm that may be the name I go for... or do you think that would be a = presumptious of me... yeah probably so... better leave the Gillum out of = calling myself a "real" rodmaker... and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop and have my road "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in place of = income!" of the past, yet still put that little disclaimer mentioning the USAF = rodmaker. Tight lines,F. A. Stainer (aka =Bob)-----Original Message-----From:= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= reference = ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01BF64C2.2A5C7A80-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat Jan 22 10:30:17 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: dickerson third rod Bob,Doesn't heat treating temper bamboo, and change it, sort of like changingiron into steel?Ernie Harrison Bob Wrote:My opinion is that the sets are caused by improper heat treating.Flaming does temper cane somewhat, however it is a very uneven processand,in my opinion, should not be used in lieu of normal heat treating. Youneedto heat treat your straight strips (or tapered, oversized strips) for 7minutes at 375 deg farenheit. Believe me, this will make a world ofdifference in the finished rod. It should not take a set from mere fishingpressure if you heat treat like this. Bob from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat Jan 22 10:30:17 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: PHY Midge The problem is the use of the plural "rods", always use the singular "rod".When you use the plural you only find the listings where the seller usedtheplural.Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: PHY Midge At 08:47 PM 01/21/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:I just tried all these suggestions for getting all the cane rod listingsoneBay. Only one, bamboo fly rods, got three items. All the rest said theyhadno such listing ! I'm doing this from the general fishing tackle site ! GMAGeorge;I searched for bamboo fly rod in titles and descriptions and left the box John from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jan 22 10:35:44 2000 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:35:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Thank You boundary="------------9DC073C6E091301A3C51715B" --------------9DC073C6E091301A3C51715B Well said, John. Often the best we can offer another is alittle piece of ourselves. Harry John Incantalupo wrote: I know that a simple thank you is not enough, but it isall I have to offer at this time.As my experience grows,and my confidence as well, I will strive to help other newrodmakers (sorry Terry!) as you all have helped me - thisI believe is the ultimate "thank you" that I can afford.John F. Incantalupo --------------9DC073C6E091301A3C51715B piece of ourselves.HarryJohn Incantalupo wrote: Iknow that a simple thank you is not enough, but it is all I have to offerat this time.As my experience grows, and my confidence as well, I willstrive to help other new rodmakers (sorry Terry!) as you all have helpedme - this I believe is the ultimate "thank you" that I canafford. JohnF. Incantalupo --------------9DC073C6E091301A3C51715B-- from plaisanc@pacifier.com Sat Jan 22 10:36:59 2000 Subject: thanks guys boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF64B3.DA816560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF64B3.DA816560 you guys[and girls]are really helpfull,I am starting to develop a real =interest in rodbuilding, it seems quite formidable at first but with =your help I think I can do it!!.are there any rodmakers near portland =ore. that can help?THANKS again.rob plaisance ridgefield wa. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF64B3.DA816560 you guys[and girls]are really = starting to develop a real interest in rodbuilding, it seems quite = first but with your help I think I can do it!!.are there any rodmakers = wa. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF64B3.DA816560-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 22 10:37:37 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:35:11 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: dickerson third rod Ernie,Exactly. It is very much like heat treating steel. Well, to be honest,I have heard two arguments on it, one that it "hardens" it, and one that itactually softens it much like annealing brass, but I vote for the former...a Heat treated strip, in my opinion, planes much harder than one not heattreated. That is why I taper my strips to within about .020 of finaldimension (per strip) before I do my heat treating. Bob -----Original Message----- Doesn't heat treating temper bamboo, and change it, sort of likechangingiron into steel?Ernie Harrison Bob Wrote:My opinion is that the sets are caused by improper heat treating.Flaming does temper cane somewhat, however it is a very unevenprocessand,in my opinion, should not be used in lieu of normal heat treating. Youneedto heat treat your straight strips (or tapered, oversized strips) for 7minutes at 375 deg farenheit. Believe me, this will make a world ofdifference in the finished rod. It should not take a set from merefishingpressure if you heat treat like this. Bob from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 22 10:44:26 2000 jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca(Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:43:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Time Estimates boundary="------------24C401F1997A6E72D0671154" --------------24C401F1997A6E72D0671154 I don't know Bob, I didn't have to go that far! My wife and friendshelped me out ,they are always telling me I am a Payne (or was thatpain)??One of the first true craftsmen I met (when I was 5 years old) wasa violin maker who lived next door to me! I used to love to watch himwork.As far as the leathers go , I would take it a step further and getit tattooed on your a## so you could moon the graphite boys on thestream and the bases as you drive by them on yer Harley!! ; - ) Bob Nunley wrote: Terry, Geez, thanks for the idea! You know, I never reallyconsidered the relationship before, but I was a luthier(coincidentally, I specialized in making violins *S*) long before Istarted making cane rods (hesitate to call myself a rodmaker becauseeven though this is my sole "job", I do have my Air Force retirementalso, so not sure if that falls under the definition of being a REALrodmaker or not). I always worried that the name NUNLEY might nothave that certain ring to it that names like Garrison, Payne, Young,etc have! Maybe I'll check into what it would involve to change it...hmmmm what could we try Antonio Stradinunlius? RobertAntonio? Bobby Strad? how about we just leave AntonioStradivarius completely out of this and try...Francesco Andreas Gillum Stainer, rodmaker that would coverFrancesco Rugerri, Andreas Guarnerius and Jacob Stainer, three prettyfair fiddle builders (dont know if you could call them violin makersor not, because none of them did it full time as a living, even thoughtheir instruments are among the finest) and Pinky Gillum, a greatrodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I go for... or do you thinkthat would be a little to presumptious of me... yeah probably so...better leave the Gillum out of it and just use the other three names.Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myself a "real"rodmaker... Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I think I'lltake my Harley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop andhave my road name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in place ofit too, and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirementincome!" I think I got it covered now... I can compare myself togreat craftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimermentioning the USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a"real" rodmaker. Tight lines,F. A. Stainer (aka Bob)-----OriginalMessage-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: Re: Time EstimatesSince I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves to Stradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did notget muchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------24C401F1997A6E72D0671154 helped me out ,they are always telling me I am a Payne (or was thatpain)?? I was 5 years old) was a violin maker who lived next door to me! I usedto love to watch him work. a step further and get it tattooed on your a## so you could moon thegraphiteboys on the stream and the bases as you drive by them on yer Bob Nunley wrote: the but I was a luthier (coincidentally, I specialized in making violins *S*)long before I started making cane rods (hesitate to call myself a rodmakerbecause even though this is my sole "job", I do have my Air Forceretirementalso, so not sure if that falls under the definition of being a REALrodmaker Maybe I'll check into what it would involve to change it... hmmmm what how about we just leave Antonio Stradivarius completely out of this and that would cover Francesco Rugerri, AndreasGuarneriusand Jacob Stainer, three pretty fair fiddle builders (dont know if youcould call them violin makers or not, because none of them did it fulltime as a living, even though their instruments are among the finest) andPinky Gillum, a great rodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I go for...or do you think that would be a little to presumptious of me... yeahprobablyso... better leave the Gillum out of it and just use the other three Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myself a "real" Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I thinkI'll take my Harley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shopand have my road name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in placeof it too, and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirement I think I got it covered now... I can compare myselfto great craftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimermentioningthe USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a "real" lines,F. A. Stainer (akaBob)-----OriginalMessage-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND <hexagon@odyssee.net> <djk762@hotmail.com>Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu<RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:54PMSubject: Re: TimeEstimates yourselvestoStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- pay. He did not get muchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product. David Kashuba. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------24C401F1997A6E72D0671154-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 22 10:50:58 2000 with ESMTP id ;Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:50:25 +0000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates Hey Bob, How about Pinky Nunley? It's got a certain ring to it. I'd bet if youembroidered that on your leathers you'd get some stares... LOL! Dennis Bob Nunley wrote: Terry,Geez, thanks for the idea! You know, I never really consideredthe relationship before, but I was a luthier (coincidentally, Ispecialized in making violins *S*) long before I started making canerods (hesitate to call myself a rodmaker because even though this ismy sole "job", I do have my Air Force retirement also, so not sure ifthat falls under the definition of being a REAL rodmaker or not). Ialways worried that the name NUNLEY might not have that certain ringto it that names like Garrison, Payne, Young, etc have! Maybe I'llcheck into what it would involve to change it... hmmmm what could wetryAntonio Stradinunlius?Robert Antonio?Bobby Strad?how about we just leave Antonio Stradivarius completely out ofthis and try...Francesco Andreas Gillum Stainer, rodmakerthat would cover Francesco Rugerri, Andreas Guarnerius andJacob Stainer, three pretty fair fiddle builders (dont know if youcould call them violin makers or not, because none of them did it fulltime as a living, even though their instruments are among the finest)and Pinky Gillum, a great rodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I gofor... or do you think that would be a little to presumptious of me...yeah probably so... better leave the Gillum out of it and just use theother three names. Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myselfa "real" rodmaker...Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I think I'll take myHarley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop and have myroad name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in place of it too,and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirement income!"I think I got it covered now... I can compare myself to greatcraftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimer mentioningthe USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a "real"rodmaker. Tight lines,F. A. Stainer (aka Bob)-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did notget muchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 22 11:34:11 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:34:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Thank You boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BF64CC.C0326F60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BF64CC.C0326F60 You have just expressed the reason for this gathering on the list, and =very well, I might add ! GMA Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 9:58 AMSubject: Thank You I've finally done it! The exhilaration I feel at finishing tapering =the last strip of my first rod is remarkable! I know I have a long way to go, but I feel such a sense of =accomplishment and pride in just getting this far! The strips are not perfect (closer than I thought they'd be!), and I =know where I've made my mistakes, I can't wait to move on. But let me get to the real reason for this post: I've been lurking on this list for over a year now. I haven't been an =active participant - most of the questions that I'd had were asked and =answered in just reading the postings. I would have never, ever, gotten these strips planned if it weren't = I thank you all for allowing me the privilege of being a part of your =information exchange. I know that a simple thank you is not enough, but = As my experience grows, and my confidence as well, I will strive to =help other new rodmakers (sorry Terry!) as you all have helped me - this =I believe is the ultimate "thank you" that I can afford. John F. Incantalupo joninc@nac.net ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BF64CC.C0326F60 Normal0DocumentEmail =0=0 @font-face {font-family: Tahoma;}P.MsoNormal {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso- pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-language: HE}LI.MsoNormal {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi- language: HE}DIV.MsoNormal {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-language: HE}P.MsoAutoSig {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-bidi-language: HE}LI.MsoAutoSig {FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso- pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-bidi-language: HE}DIV.MsoAutoSig {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-bidi-language: HE}SPAN.EmailStyle15 {COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size: =10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi- font-family: Tahoma}DIV.Section1 {page: Section1} You have just expressed the reason for this= on the list, and very well, I might add ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- John = Sent: Saturday, January 22, = AMSubject: Thank You remarkable! know I have a long way to go, but I feel such a sense of = pride in just getting this far! strips are not perfect (closer than I thought they'd be!), and I know = on. post: most of the questions that I'd had were asked and answered in just = postings. would have never, ever, gotten these strips planned if it weren't for = patient, kind, experienced advice from the members of this = my experience grows, and my confidence as well, I will strive to help = new rodmakers (sorry Terry!) as you all have helped me - this I = ultimate "thank you" that I can =afford. =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail = F. Incantalupojoninc@nac.net ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BF64CC.C0326F60-- from jhewitt@cmn.net Sat Jan 22 11:39:52 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates Mr. Ackland,Your recent posts to this list have degenerated to namecalling. I for one am insulted. If you want to call me a jerk, fine, butpleaseinclude something beneficial to rodmaking as well. If that's not possible Iwould encourage you remove yourself from this "Rodmakers" list.I know that you have much to contribute to the subject of rodmaking,and Iam interested in everything everyone (including yourself) has to sayregardingrodmaking. However I am not interested in your personal opinions ofpeople.Please keep those opinions to yourself, and lets return to rodmaking.Thanks,John TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more thanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from stpete@netten.net Sat Jan 22 11:41:37 2000 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:43:59 -0600 Subject: Re: dickerson third rod Tom, Mr. Nunley is right on this one. Water boils at 212*. So 175* will getyou nowhere. Perhaps if you left it at that temp for several days youmight dry it out. I flame my cane ala Sir D - inside and out. Thatwill temper cane fairly well in dry climates where the cane is notoverly moist. But I always heat treat with a shortened version of thePowell method after that. Make a desicant tube with 2" or 3" PVC andsome flower drying crystals or other desicant. I have a filteredchamber at the end of my tube. Harry Boyd, I believe, uses an old sockwith a knot in it. It makes a great difference in humid climes. Rick C.FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: I'll try to respond to all the responses _ thank you! It seems that everyone is saying similar things, that my problem is duetoheat treating and moisture. The cane was flamed, tiger striped. It did sitinthe shop and I did not have it in dessicant tubes. I assume that I shouldhave, living in Pennsylvania where the humidity is very high and with nodehumidifier. After planing the splines, I always bind it and put it in the heating oven ammoniumchloride. After gluing, I let it sit overnight and in the morning put it inthe oven at about 140 degrees for an hour. When I sand the glue off, I trytoput tongue oil on it right away to prevent moisture and reentry. Do you guys suggest to always put the splines in dessicant tubes? orpossiblyrun a dehumidifier? What are your suggestions? Thanks Tom N. from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan 22 11:49:41 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Pinky Hi Bob:I would avoid "Pinky", just so you don't jinx your work and have the rods start to delaminate!Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from trippma@mindspring.com Sat Jan 22 12:06:14 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates This thread has degenerated to ROFF standards. Perhaps it's time to moveon. -Mark ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more thanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from gabriele.moultrie@multimedica.de Sat Jan 22 13:11:29 2000 200019:07:15 UT Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:10:48 +0200 fwproxy.multimedica.de 22 Jan 200019:06:38 UT 194.138.18.99 (NortonAntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:18:280000 (GMT) fwcommunity.multimedica.de 22 Jan 200019:06:37 UT Subject: Wet Strip Hi I was reading through "The Planing Forms" latest issue and noticed areference to soaking strips prior to straightening. Can anyone enlightenme on this one? I also noticed a reference to pressed nodes somewhere onthe list but deleted it too quickly - bad move- and have been hoping tosee it rementioned over the last few weeks ... any ideas? As you may all realise the only book I've read yet is the "MastersGuide...." and I'm still waiting for the updated version of theCattanach book to be released, does he mention these two methods in hisbook? Thanks for any help that can be given Stuart Moultrie from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Jan 22 13:38:59 2000 Subject: Re: Re: dickerson third rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF64DD.962C5120" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF64DD.962C5120 I hate to point out the obvious, fellas. If Tom is using 175 Centigrade = thickness of the strips. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF64DD.962C5120 I hate to point out the obvious, = If Tom is using 175 Centigrade for a half hour, he's getting a nice = depending on the thickness of the strips. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF64DD.962C5120-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Jan 22 15:14:24 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Time Estimates boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF6526.35D6DEA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF6526.35D6DEA0 Bob Never knew ol=B4 Andreas Guarnerius was a part-timer. Probably didn=B4t=bother him very muchas there was no Violinmakers List then. There You have it; The good old days, On the other hand, he lived with =his mother-in-lawI seem to remember having read somewhere. So perhaps he had a fewwords =about part-timingnow and then as well:-)) regards, Carsten aka R. Oddmaker ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF6526.35D6DEA0 Bob Never knew ol´ Andreas = part-timer. Probably didn´t bother him very muchas there was no Violinmakers then. There You have it; The good old = other hand, he lived with his mother-in-lawI seem to remember having read = perhaps he had a few words about part-timingnow and then as =well:-)) regards, Carsten aka R. =Oddmaker ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF6526.35D6DEA0-- from d_price@global2000.net Sat Jan 22 16:39:50 2000 RAA06133 Subject: Re: dickerson third rod I think he meant F not C, later in his post he says 140 for curing glueand that would make sense as fahrenheit. So you see that it is not thatobvious. Dave Price Jim Utzerath wrote: I hate to point out the obvious, fellas. If Tom is using 175Centigrade for a half hour, he's getting a nice medium tan dependingon the thickness of the strips. from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan 22 16:40:51 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A18378E30072; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:38:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Sv: Time Estimates regards, Carsten aka R. "Oddmaker" Carsten,You make BOOK? Or am I mixing that up with "OddSmaker"?Art At 10:15 PM 01/22/2000 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Bob Never knew ol´ Andreas Guarnerius was a part-timer.Probably didn´t bother him very much as there was noViolinmakersList then. There You have it; The good old days, On the other hand, helived with his mother-in-law I seem to remember having readsomewhere. So perhaps he had a few words about part-timing now and then as well:-)) regards, Carsten aka R. Oddmaker from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan 22 17:44:28 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: drying cabinets Hi Rod makers:I am building a drying cabinet this weekend, and I wanted to know whatyou all use for a bulb. I am not going to use florescents, but do you use heat lamps? What exactly do you guys recommend. My drip and leave system istoo slow. I want a separate cabinet to dry and prep stuff before dipping. If I had a 125w infrared lamp on a clamp fixture, would that be too hot. I was thinking of a wooden cabinet with a plastic strip for a door.Thanks,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jan 22 18:38:03 2000 Subject: Re: Speaking of Dickerson rods This may or may not be appropriate for the list, but. I have a verynice, old gentleman that lives near me and he has some Dickerson rods and other "stuff" he would like to part with. I don't know ifmany of the guys know who Ray Bergman was, but he was a veryfamous outdoor writer for field & Stream back in the 20's ,30's &40's. He was very good friends with Lyle Dickerson and he hada shop that sold fishing tackle, including Dickerson & Leonardcane rods. Well, it seems that this gentleman lived across the street from Ray Bergman and his wife from when he was a young boy onup. Well, Ray and his wife liked him so much, that when they died,they left everything they had to this guy, Gus. Including, Dickersonrods, Leonard rods, books, photos, letters, brochures, etc. All fromthe 20's 30's & 40's. Needless to say, this "stuff" is worth quite a lot of money. There are some "special" rods that were writtenabout in some recent books Made by Dickerson, for Bergman. If any one out there has any interest in this "stuff", e-mailme off list and I will give more details. I would like to help this guy out and not see him get ripped off. That's why I came to you guys. Dave LeClair from channer@outerbounds.net Sat Jan 22 19:05:47 2000 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:05:26 -0700 Subject: Re: drying cabinets At 06:41 PM 01/22/2000 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:Hi Rod makers:I am building a drying cabinet this weekend, and I wanted to know whatyou all use for a bulb. I am not going to use florescents, but do you use heat lamps? What exactly do you guys recommend. My drip and leave system istoo slow. I want a separate cabinet to dry and prep stuff before dipping. If I had a 125w infrared lamp on a clamp fixture, would that be too hot. I was thinking of a wooden cabinet with a plastic strip for a door.Thanks,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob;I build a 1'x1'x5' long wooden cabinet with 3 plexiglass door, a narrow oneat the to[p to reach thru, a narrow one at the botton to reach thru and atall one in the middle to access the whole box. My varnish tube come outthe bottom and the sections stay in the box from the time they are cleaneduntil the varnish is dry.I just use a regular 60 watt lite bulb under acoffee can and it keeps the box between 90 and 100 degrees f.John from bhoy@inmind.com Sat Jan 22 19:15:49 2000 altos.inmind.com(8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA18339; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:15:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Thank You I'd like to echo that. I just glued up my first rod this afternoon.... what a rush! I don't participate because I have little to offer, but just watching the list most of my questions are answered at about the timethey arise. This is a great resource and an inspriration. Thanks all. Bill Hoy At 10:58 AM 1/22/00 -0500, John Incantalupo wrote: I've finally done it! The exhilaration I feel at finishing tapering the last strip of my first rod is remarkable! I know I have a long way to go, but I feel such a sense of accomplishment and pride in just getting this far! The strips are not perfect (closer than I thought they'd be!), and I know where I've made my mistakes, I can't wait to move on. But let me get to the real reason for this post: I've been lurking on this list for over a year now. I haven't been an active participant - most of the questions that I'd had were asked and answered in just reading the postings. I would have never, ever, gotten these strips planned if it weren't for the patient, kind, experienced advice from the members of this list. I thank you all for allowing me the privilege of being a part of your information exchange. I know that a simple thank you is not enough, but it is all I have to offer at this time. As my experience grows, and my confidence as well, I will strive to help other new rodmakers (sorry Terry!) as you all have helped me - this I believe is the ultimate "thank you" that I can afford. John F. Incantalupo joninc@nac.net from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jan 22 19:21:13 2000 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Wet Strip Hi Gabriele,The guy you want to talk to about wet strips is John Bokstrom . Hepioneeredthe work in this field as far as I know. bokstrom@axionet.comRay----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wet Strip Hi I was reading through "The Planing Forms" latest issue and noticed areference to soaking strips prior to straightening. Can anyone enlightenme on this one? I also noticed a reference to pressed nodes somewhereonthe list but deleted it too quickly - bad move- and have been hoping tosee it rementioned over the last few weeks ... any ideas? As you may all realise the only book I've read yet is the "MastersGuide...." and I'm still waiting for the updated version of theCattanach book to be released, does he mention these two methods in hisbook? Thanks for any help that can be given Stuart Moultrie from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jan 22 19:23:43 2000 Subject: Re: drying cabinets Hi Bob,I use a 100 watt 120 volt light bulb for most work as it heats the dryingcabinet to 115-120 degrees F.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: drying cabinets Hi Rod makers:I am building a drying cabinet this weekend, and I wanted to know whatyouall use for a bulb. I am not going to use florescents, but do you use heatlamps? What exactly do you guys recommend. My drip and leave system istooslow. I want a separate cabinet to dry and prep stuff before dipping. If Ihad a 125w infrared lamp on a clamp fixture, would that be too hot. Iwasthinking of a wooden cabinet with a plastic strip for a door.Thanks,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 22 19:36:15 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:33:47 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: drying cabinets Bob,I use 2 100 watt incadescent bulbs... keep in mind that my dryingcabinet is 6 ft tall, 2 feet deep and 2 1/2 ft wide... lots of room to heatup. I know some just use a single bulb, and that would be plenty for asmaller space. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: drying cabinets Hi Rod makers:I am building a drying cabinet this weekend, and I wanted to know whatyouall use for a bulb. I am not going to use florescents, but do you use heatlamps? What exactly do you guys recommend. My drip and leave system istooslow. I want a separate cabinet to dry and prep stuff before dipping. If Ihad a 125w infrared lamp on a clamp fixture, would that be too hot. I wasthinking of a wooden cabinet with a plastic strip for a door.Thanks,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 22 19:44:34 2000 Subject: Letort -- (long & off topic) Quite a few of you attended the Pa Gathering in September. Here is asummary of where things stand today with the proposed Home Depot -- across the Letort from Vince's Meadow. F. LETORT SPRING UNDER THREAT BY HOME DEPOT On January 7, 2000 Olympic Reality of New York City filed a developmentplan for nineteen acres located along the historic section _ justopposite Vince's Meadow _ of the Letort Spring Run. There are importantspawning beds just down stream. This is in the middle of the stretchdesignated as Heritage Wild Trout water, as Exceptional Value, and as aWild and Scenic River. There is an abundance of wild live _ deer, fox,muskrat, beaver, pheasant _ and a great diversity of bird life _songbirds, waterfowl, birds of prey, and game birds _ present in thenatural areas. A nature trail used by naturalists, joggers, hikers andother outdoor enthusiasts runs parallel to the Letort. Moreimportantly, this is that part of the Letort that served as a laboratory contributions to the development of fly-fishing in America. The maintenant of the site will be Home Depot along with two other buildings ofa yet to be determined commercial use. Cumberland Valley Chapter of Trout Unlimited has retained an attorney,Greg Knight, and two technical experts, Jim Casselberry and JoeGallagher. A citizens group _ the Letort Neighborhood PreservationAlliance, with the Mission Statement that states it's purpose as "Toprotect the Letort and it's neighborhoods from excessive commercialdevelopment and urban sprawl" _ has been formed and incorporated andretained additional technical support. Additionally, the LetortRegional Authority has met with Olympic and expressed concerns of theirown. After our initial evaluation of the property, we have had twomeetings with Olympic and their technical people to discuss ourconcerns. In these discussions we indicated that preliminary plansindicated a lack of understanding of conditions that we observed andthat additional data should be gathered and testing done before theproject design could be completed. We have subsequently met with theirengineers on site to discuss our findings in detail. Following thatmeeting, we submitted a memo to the developer outlining ten points thatneed to be addressed. To date, there has been no response. CVTU has serious concerns with the plan _ as currently presented _ as wefeel that it ignores environmental concerns and poses a definitedetrimental threat to the Letort. Our areas of concern are the design of the storm water management planthat seems to be "text-book" designed rather that designed to meet theenvironmental needs of the property and the Letort, the loss of animportant re-charge area that will become eighty percent impervioussurface, and the location of an old city dump whose position has notbeen totally and completely designated and that contains mostlyhazardous material that definitely would negatively impact the Letort ifdisturbed. This is a valuable piece of real estate and at some point in time willbe developed. Ideally, we would like to see it become a park. Butthat will not happen _ the land is too valuable. We continue to workwith the Borough Council to see that whatever development takes placehere is done correctly _ to give maximum protection to the Letort.However, we cannot do this alone. How can you help? In several ways. First, by writing letters to theappropriate people expressing your concern: Borough Council, OlympicReality, Home Depot and our local newspapers. Secondly, spread theword. Tell your neighbors, friends, relatives, etc. about yourconcerns. Get other interested organizations involved. We hope to builda coalition of ourselves, the LNPA, the Letort regional Authority, theCarlisle Fish and Game, the Mechanicsburg Sportsman's Club, the AudubonSociety, the Nature Conservancy, the Conodoguinet Creek WatershedAssociation and others to work together in our efforts. Lastly, we canuse your financial support. We expect this to be a difficult struggle.The current issue of Forbes Magazine (January 24) carries a cover storyon Home Depot that gives a good indication of the nature of theorganization we are dealing with. The CVTU Board of Directors has givenindividual commitments totaling in excess of $600. The contributions from you or your organization _ no matter how great or how modest --will assist us greatly in our efforts. We do know that many individualsand organizations from across the country _ including National TU _ areready to help, but your help is most important. You can help the Letortretain its current natural characteristics. If you do write letters,please copy CVTU. Send your tax- deductible contribution to CVTU,payable to the CVTU Home Depot Fund. Thanks in advance for your support and help. Please contact CVTU forfurther information or if you have other ideas. IMPORTANT ADDRESSES David J. Schwartz, PresidentOlympic Reality, Inc415 East 52nd Street17th Floor, Suite ACNew York, NY 10022(212) 753-9333 Arthur M. Blank, PresidentHome Depot. Inc2455 Paces Ferry RoadAtlanta, GA 30339(770) 433-8211 Kirk Wilson, MayorBorough Council53 West South StreetCarlisle, PA 17013(717) 249-4422 Fred Bohls, Conservation ChairmanCumberland Valley TUP. O. Box 520Carlisle, Pa 17013(717) 258-3579e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.comwww.homestead.com/cvtu The Sentinel457 East North StreetCarlisle, PA 17013(717) 243-2611 The Harrisburg Patriot Evening News812 King BoulevardHarrisburg, PA 17001(717) 249-2006 --Fred Bohls900 South Spring Garden StreetCarlisle, PA 17013(717) 258- 3579 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!! from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 22 20:35:02 2000 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:34:28 -0400 Subject: Re: drying cabinets I have a great idea, I think in my drying box I'm going to throw in thiscomputer, lord knows it seems to draw the dust right to it!! On a seriousnotethough, that is a good question. There doesn't appear to be an abundance ofinfo out there on drying cabinets. I haven't actually even seen a set ofplans in Wayne's video,Shawn Hi Rod makers:I am building a drying cabinet this weekend, and I wanted to know whatyouall use for a bulb. I am not going to use florescents, but do you use heatlamps? What exactly do you guys recommend. My drip and leave system istooslow. I want a separate cabinet to dry and prep stuff before dipping. If Ihad a 125w infrared lamp on a clamp fixture, would that be too hot. Iwasthinking of a wooden cabinet with a plastic strip for a door.Thanks,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 22 20:39:35 2000 Subject: Glace cotton thread Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 a spoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochet string What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn from leroyt@involved.com Sat Jan 22 21:09:05 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:06:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Time Estimates Hey I am with you, who care's how much time it takes. I have been workingona rod for over a year and have it half done. Have smelled a lot of rose'salong the way.Leroy............ from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Jan 22 21:17:58 2000 Subject: Sandpaper Guys,Just thought I'd pass along a bit of info about where to buy fine sandpaper.I've seen mention of buying, ie 2000 grit paper at Wally world, where I didin fact buy some. Today while driving around loose and unattended Istoppedat an automotive paint store wher they had paper in grits from 1000 to2500in packs of 50 sheets (size 5 1/2 x 9 inches) for $25.00 per pack.Comparedto what I had to spend previously at WW this comes out to at least a 50%savings!Hope this will be of some help to someone, Mike from stpete@netten.net Sat Jan 22 21:29:52 2000 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:32:09 -0600 Subject: Re: dickerson third rod Jim, of course I made the assumption that the 175 degrees was Farenheitas any presumptuous American would. Tom, if you are using 175*C(338*F), forget what I wrote. As my fifteen year old would say - "mybad". Rick Jim Utzerath wrote: I hate to point out the obvious, fellas. If Tom is using 175Centigrade for a half hour, he's getting a nice medium tan dependingon the thickness of the strips. from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 22 21:37:41 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:35:13 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread Shawn,The glace cotton I buy comes in 4800 yard spools for $26, so thatbreaksdown to about a half a cent a yard... pretty cheap, actually, and it is timetested and proven, and not something that would either enhance or degradethe performance or characteristics of a rod. I don't know how long thespools of crochet thread are, but they would have to be at least 500 yardsto make it comparable in cost to the glace cotton. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Glace cotton thread Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 a spoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochet string What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 22 21:53:23 2000 Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:52:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread Bob,$26 dollars for you guys though works out to about $54 for me plusdutyif I have to pay it. Everything I get up here is at LEAST double what youpay bythe time you add the exchange,taxes,shipping,and all the little extras thatgetadded on somehow,and that good ol duty (all also in American funds).Sometimesit seems to be almost triple. One of the real crummy things about living inCanada!! That's whyI try to save a buck where I can, because I don't want to on componentsand ifglace thread has no real life saving value it's $100 I could be spendingelsewhere, Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: Shawn,The glace cotton I buy comes in 4800 yard spools for $26, so thatbreaksdown to about a half a cent a yard... pretty cheap, actually, and it is timetested and from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan 22 22:03:19 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AD2D56FA0148; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:01:49 -0500 Subject: Re: drying cabinets Bob,I'm using an about-5"-sq by 5' high box with a 100 watt regular bulbinthe bottom and that gets to about 100 degs with the door shut. I used tohang my rods using masking tape and string until the heat from the bottommelted the tape at the top and dropped the rod so it laid up against thebulb awhile. Ever see cane after all the lignin is burned off and only thefibers are left? Believe me, fibers are important but "it don't mean athing if it ain't got that.....lignin!"If you put a bulb wherever cane can contact it, be sure and put ascreenin front of it. I have a conical piece of aluminum flashing above the bulband it gets to the 100 degs or so with that in place.Take care,Art At 06:41 PM 01/22/2000 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:Hi Rod makers:I am building a drying cabinet this weekend, and I wanted to know whatyou all use for a bulb. I am not going to use florescents, but do you use heat lamps? What exactly do you guys recommend. My drip and leave system istoo slow. I want a separate cabinet to dry and prep stuff before dipping. If I had a 125w infrared lamp on a clamp fixture, would that be too hot. I was thinking of a wooden cabinet with a plastic strip for a door.Thanks,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Jan 22 22:03:42 2000 Subject: Portable planing stand. Here is another 'thing' which has been of help recently.Let me first, however, set the record straight by saying my 'normal'planingbench is solid steel and weighs in at 1100 pounds, and consequently isrocksteady.Because I hate temperatures below 65 degrees F, and here in Atlanta ithasbeen quite cold lately, I wanted to find some way to move my planingoperation inside the house where it's WARM!I went to Home Depot the other day and bought one of the 'workmate' brandcollapsable work benches. I also bought two pieces of nice straight maplesix feet long. I glued the maple together yielding a single piece approx. 2x 2 inches square by 6 feet long. This I clamped into the vise set up of theworkmate and placed my planing form on top of the wood and lightlysecuredit in place with some nylon ties. It ain't pretty, but it's stable enough toplane on, and for my purposes it will suffice until I can get back into myshop without freezing. BTW- this may be of help to those without a lot ofspace to work in. Mike from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 01:09:35 2000 Subject: Urac 185 Has anyone experimented with the mixtures of urac 185? I've heardabout people changing the ratio and adding stuff ?,Shawn from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 23 02:56:33 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:56:29 +0100 Subject: Sv: Sv: Time Estimates from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 23 02:56:35 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Sv: Time Estimates from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 23 02:59:19 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:59:16 +0100 Subject: Sv: Sv: Time Estimates from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Jan 23 04:44:37 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id XAA18699; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:44:14 +1300 Subject: Re: Time Estimates John , I understand your reaction to Terry . I sent him a rather similar note about18 months ago after a similar sort of statement by him. However.. I have learnt to understand Terry's somewhat blunt north English humour (my wife comes from Yorkshire so maybe it is easier for me ) and havebenefited from some really great rodbuilding advise from him on a numberofoccasions. He holds his views very strongly , and expresses them bluntly ,but I have learnt to gradually started to appreciate Terry as a rathervaluable member of the list even if he does upset a lot of people who havenot become accustomed to his manner. I suppose I am saying try not to get too upset by Terry , one day he willprobably be of a great help to you on some rodmaking matter regards Ian Kearney At 10:37 AM 22/01/00 -0700, John Hewitt wrote:Mr. Ackland,Your recent posts to this list have degenerated to namecalling. I for one am insulted. If you want to call me a jerk, fine, butpleaseinclude something beneficial to rodmaking as well. If that's not possible Iwould encourage you remove yourself from this "Rodmakers" list.I know that you have much to contribute to the subject of rodmaking,and Iam interested in everything everyone (including yourself) has to sayregardingrodmaking. However I am not interested in your personal opinions ofpeople.Please keep those opinions to yourself, and lets return to rodmaking.Thanks,John TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 07:00:23 2000 Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread I dont know where you buy your thread but I get mine from an industrialsewing machine supply place in Mineapolis. The three sizes recommendedbyCattanach come in large cones and cost 5 or 6 bucks. I don't know howmuchthread is on each but they look like there is enough thread on the to reachthe moon. It looks like I might have a lifetime supply.-----Original Message----- Subject: Glace cotton thread Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 a spoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochet string What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Jan 23 07:01:43 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: drying cabinets I build a 1'x1'x5' long wooden cabinet with 3 plexiglass door, a narrowoneat the to[p to reach thru, a narrow one at the botton to reach thru and atall one in the middle to access the whole box. My varnish tube come outthe bottom and the sections stay in the box from the time they arecleaneduntil the varnish is dry.I just use a regular 60 watt lite bulb under acoffee can and it keeps the box between 90 and 100 degrees f.John John, Odd that this was on the list today. I went to slip last night consideringconfigurations for a dip box to use in my stairwell. I was thinking about aboxthat would contain the lift and drying section and the varnish tube. Yourssounds simpler. Do you detach the varnish tube to use the light bulb rig? One thing I havebeenpuzzled about dipping, is the process itself. I will probably be dipping onesection at a time. Do I let it dry in the cabinet before dipping anothersection? Do I remove it wet to a drying cabinet? Do I move it to the sideofthe dipping cabinet to facilitate dipping another rod? I need to considerthesethings to realize my design. What is your procedure, anyone? SWMBO will probably not stand for a permanent dipping cabinet in ourfinishedstairwell, so I will probably make it in two sections. Any thoughts, anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from bhoy@inmind.com Sun Jan 23 07:17:52 2000 altos.inmind.com(8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id IAA07823; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:17:40 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread I just glued my first rod, so take this for what it's worth. I ordered glace cotton thread the first week of december and am still waiting.... but that's another thread (pun intended). Yesterday went to walmart and found white embroidery yarn for $3.27US/400 yards. Worked fine, but I can't compare it to the glace cotton 'cause I've never even seen it. You have to spool it yourself, no big deal. The crochet thread isn't nearly as strong, I could easily break it by pulling it. Not so the embroidery yarn. At 09:35 PM 1/22/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Shawn,The glace cotton I buy comes in 4800 yard spools for $26, so thatbreaksdown to about a half a cent a yard... pretty cheap, actually, and it is timetested and proven, and not something that would either enhance ordegradethe performance or characteristics of a rod. I don't know how longthe>spools of crochet thread are, but they would have to be at least 500yardsto make it comparable in cost to the glace cotton. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Shawn Pineo Date: Saturday, January 22, 2000 8:41 PMSubject: Glace cotton thread Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 aspoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochet string What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 07:24:38 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Sir D I have seen Sir D refered to many times. Can some one tell me the source?Dave N.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Sir D So you just took the original Sir D pattern and put 3 ferrules inwithout changing any dimensions? Yup. What did the rod feel like after that? Not much difference. Like I said, the taper has enough backboneto stand up to the extra weight. Did it change the line weight? A matter of opinion. I don't think it did. If you did change the dimensions could I have them and did you haveany problem finding small enough ferrules. I can't even manage to find a#7 for the 3pcs 2wt 6'3" I was going to build!, Taper is the same as the 2 piece. In fact it was a completed 2 piece, andI cut it at the appropriate places and installed ferrules to make it a 4piece.You are right, the smallest ferrule I can find is 8/64. You have to shimtherod a bit to use an 8/64 for the tip section.Darryl from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 07:26:10 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates Terry! The cross eyed seamstress couldn't mend straight-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates Dave,ok you are a rodmaker, if you make your own cloth sacks you could alsocallyourself aseamstress!Terry Dave Price wrote: Terence I build bamboo rods from scratch, there for I'm a rodmaker. I donot sell them, I'm not a professional rodmaker. Hand planing rods withthe accuracy of +- less than a mill at each station and ending up with agood finished product is what all the fun is in this pastime. If I had arod that was pumped through a machine I think I would opt for plastic.Save you're pissing contests for George :-). Dave TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: He was a Railroad Engineer and an amateur rodmaker. Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrods withoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 07:33:22 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates I sit at this magic box and thumb through my E mail, delete- delete-delete, etc. and then a gem will come through. The info gathered from this listhas really been great. THe other kick I get is from Terry's comments. Theonly smiles I get from the list. Keep the pot stirred Terry I love it!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more thanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 23 07:46:27 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:46:56 -0600 Subject: Re: drying cabinets I've read more than once, some references to a PVC tube, being used as adrying "cabinet". of sorts. The advantage being that the static charge inthe tube, attracted any dust. Is anyone using such a set up ? As I plan this item, my thoughts are to be able to do 3 or 4 sections, andhang them to dry, so that the door, or entrance would not have to be openedafter placing them on hooks. I notice all references to binding cord, speak of cotton. Cotton has littlestretch. Is this the main reason for its use ? If a cord from nylon wasused, there would be built in stretch. Is there a disadvantage to having theconstant tension from such twine ? Or, is it the low price of the cotton ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: drying cabinets I build a 1'x1'x5' long wooden cabinet with 3 plexiglass door, a narrowoneat the to[p to reach thru, a narrow one at the botton to reach thru andatall one in the middle to access the whole box. My varnish tube comeoutthe bottom and the sections stay in the box from the time they arecleaneduntil the varnish is dry.I just use a regular 60 watt lite bulb under acoffee can and it keeps the box between 90 and 100 degrees f.John John, Odd that this was on the list today. I went to slip last night consideringconfigurations for a dip box to use in my stairwell. I was thinking abouta boxthat would contain the lift and drying section and the varnish tube. Yourssounds simpler. Do you detach the varnish tube to use the light bulb rig? One thing I havebeenpuzzled about dipping, is the process itself. I will probably be dippingonesection at a time. Do I let it dry in the cabinet before dipping anothersection? Do I remove it wet to a drying cabinet? Do I move it to the sideofthe dipping cabinet to facilitate dipping another rod? I need to considerthesethings to realize my design. What is your procedure, anyone? SWMBO will probably not stand for a permanent dipping cabinet in ourfinishedstairwell, so I will probably make it in two sections. Any thoughts, anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 23 07:50:28 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:50:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Time Estimates Regardless of the acidity, there's always the delete button ! I suspectTerry is just "pulling the chain" a bit, telling all to not take ourselvestoo seriously. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Time Estimates John , I understand your reaction to Terry . I sent him a rather similar noteabout18 months ago after a similar sort of statement by him. However.. I have learnt to understand Terry's somewhat blunt north English humour(my wife comes from Yorkshire so maybe it is easier for me ) and havebenefited from some really great rodbuilding advise from him on anumberofoccasions. He holds his views very strongly , and expresses them bluntly,but I have learnt to gradually started to appreciate Terry as a rathervaluable member of the list even if he does upset a lot of people whohavenot become accustomed to his manner. I suppose I am saying try not to get too upset by Terry , one day he willprobably be of a great help to you on some rodmaking matter regards Ian Kearney At 10:37 AM 22/01/00 -0700, John Hewitt wrote:Mr. Ackland,Your recent posts to this list have degenerated to namecalling. I for one am insulted. If you want to call me a jerk, fine, butpleaseinclude something beneficial to rodmaking as well. If that's notpossibleIwould encourage you remove yourself from this "Rodmakers" list.I know that you have much to contribute to the subject of rodmaking,and Iam interested in everything everyone (including yourself) has to sayregardingrodmaking. However I am not interested in your personal opinions ofpeople.Please keep those opinions to yourself, and lets return to rodmaking.Thanks,John TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did notgetmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 23 08:05:16 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:05:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread I totally understand where you are coming from here Shawn, as I haveseveralcustomers in Canada. This NAFTA thing seems to be ignored by yourgovernment! At least a great deal more than we see on the Mexican border, down here.Ihave developed ways of getting shipments through your Customs people,withlittle or no duty being charged. I also have addresses just across theborder, where items are picked up on the U.S. side. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread Bob,$26 dollars for you guys though works out to about $54 for me plusdutyif I have to pay it. Everything I get up here is at LEAST double what youpay bythe time you add the exchange,taxes,shipping,and all the little extrasthat getadded on somehow,and that good ol duty (all also in American funds).Sometimesit seems to be almost triple. One of the real crummy things about livinginCanada!! That's whyI try to save a buck where I can, because I don't want to on componentsand ifglace thread has no real life saving value it's $100 I could be spendingelsewhere, Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: Shawn,The glace cotton I buy comes in 4800 yard spools for $26, so thatbreaksdown to about a half a cent a yard... pretty cheap, actually, and it istimetested and from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 23 08:17:13 2000 "'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: Re: Time Estimates This is the problem, no one else understands the importance of our work.Mywife and family take no interest except for constantly remarking on themess.Norm Abrahams on the New Yankie workshop is my wife's hero, he makebeautifulstuff in a half hour or multiples thereof and never makes a mess! Kling, Barry W. wrote: One of the main reasons I like you guys is the comparisons made to VanGoghetc. My other friends talk about me mainly in terms of Curly or Moe. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/21/00 10:56 PMSubject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is more thanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 23 08:46:02 2000 Subject: Re: drying cabinets George, Steve, and others, I use a poor man's version of the PVC tube Wayne describes in hisbook.Having never seen Wayne's, I won't attempt to compare mine to his.Mine is 12" PVC pipe, with a joint at 3' from the bottom. The reason move. But it wouldn't be easy. Big PVC pipe is expensive, but I bummedmine use one12" circle of 3/4" birch plywood from Home Depot as a centering device varnish tube and shelf to keep things from falling to the bottom. Anotherplywood disk serves as the top. The floor is the bottom. A 1/8" hole inthetop allows me to insert fly line backing as the pull cord. I cut a 8"x46"doorin the top section to make it easy to get rod sections in and out. Iscrewedfour cup hooks in the top piece of plywood, so this serves as both a dipstationand drying box. The door is covered with a double layer of clear painter'sdropcloth (Bisqueen?), afixed with pipe strapping and duct tape. The innerlayer isslit down the center. The outer layer is raised while dipping, and loweredwhile sections dry.I use the clear flourescent bulb tubes to hold the varnish. Glue a pvcfitting on the bottom, and just press on for the top. Clear tubes make iteasyto see what you're doing. That's a great tip I got from someone on thislist.The upper chamber is lighted with one of the cheap flourescentfixturesthat just plugs in (no wiring). Rather than heat the chamber, I just heattheentire shop to about 80+*. My shop's only 7'x16', so that's no big deal.I vacuum the upper chamber out before each use, and mist it downwith aspray bottle. After waiting 15 minutes for the mist to settle, I dip onesection, then move it to one of the cup hooks to begin drying while I dipthenext section. Dipping more than one section at a time would seem torequire toomany stops at wraps and guides.There are more elegant solutions, I'm sure. But I've got about $35 inmy setup, and it gives me good results. Oh, yeah, George. We use cotton because it doesn't burn at hightemp'sused in heat treating. Nylon will leave an interesting series of spiral burnmarks around the rod. Hope this helps,Harry nobler wrote: I've read more than once, some references to a PVC tube, being used as adrying "cabinet". of sorts. The advantage being that the static charge inthe tube, attracted any dust. Is anyone using such a set up ? As I plan this item, my thoughts are to be able to do 3 or 4 sections, andhang them to dry, so that the door, or entrance would not have to beopenedafter placing them on hooks. I notice all references to binding cord, speak of cotton. Cotton has littlestretch. Is this the main reason for its use ? If a cord from nylon wasused, there would be built in stretch. Is there a disadvantage to havingtheconstant tension from such twine ? Or, is it the low price of the cotton? GMA----- Original Message ----- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 08:53:05 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:52:31 -0400 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Time Estimates I would tend to agree with you! This seems very familiar? Little tongue incheek perhaps? Besides why tempt fate and compare yourself toStradivarius, hewas an incredible craftsman, but have you ever seen what water does tothe gluein his instruments? And Van Gough?? I don't know I have some pretty goodslices from bamboo but luckily I haven't lost an ear yet!! ;-) . Come on guys, enjoylife a little.Do you think that Terry would stay on here if he really thought we werejerks,even though some of us may be prone to being one at times(myselfincluded)!, Shawn nobler wrote: Regardless of the acidity, there's always the delete button ! I suspectTerry is just "pulling the chain" a bit, telling all to not take ourselvestoo seriously. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Ian Kearney" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 4:44 AMSubject: Re: Time Estimates John , I understand your reaction to Terry . I sent him a rather similar noteabout18 months ago after a similar sort of statement by him. However.. I have learnt to understand Terry's somewhat blunt north English humour (my wife comes from Yorkshire so maybe it is easier for me ) and havebenefited from some really great rodbuilding advise from him on anumberofoccasions. He holds his views very strongly , and expresses thembluntly ,but I have learnt to gradually started to appreciate Terry as a rathervaluable member of the list even if he does upset a lot of people whohavenot become accustomed to his manner. I suppose I am saying try not to get too upset by Terry , one day he willprobably be of a great help to you on some rodmaking matter regards Ian Kearney At 10:37 AM 22/01/00 -0700, John Hewitt wrote:Mr. Ackland,Your recent posts to this list have degenerated to namecalling. I for one am insulted. If you want to call me a jerk, fine, butpleaseinclude something beneficial to rodmaking as well. If that's notpossibleIwould encourage you remove yourself from this "Rodmakers" list.I know that you have much to contribute to the subject ofrodmaking,and Iam interested in everything everyone (including yourself) has to sayregardingrodmaking. However I am not interested in your personal opinions ofpeople.Please keep those opinions to yourself, and lets return to rodmaking.Thanks,John TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did notgetmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 23 08:53:18 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates 602ADA6D5CDDB10A323C8752" --------------602ADA6D5CDDB10A323C8752 Bob,you have hit the nail on the head. It is about image and how we wish tobe perceived which is an important part of north American culture. Fatold farts on Harley's is a good example. I am not referring to you here. When I left school at 17 I took up an apprenticeship that lasted 5 yearswhich includedday release at a technical college and the learning process is ongoing.. Rodmaking is a pastime that can be learned from a book in a couple ofweeks and I feel that Tool and Die making is more a personalachievement than being able to knock out a few rods. If others call merod maker I am comfortable with that because it helps with sales but inmy mind I am a tool and die maker. This could change when I retire, Iguess I would rather be called a rodmaker than a pensioner.Terry Bob Nunley wrote: Terry, Geez, thanks for the idea! You know, I never reallyconsidered the relationship before, but I was a luthier(coincidentally, I specialized in making violins *S*) long before Istarted making cane rods (hesitate to call myself a rodmaker becauseeven though this is my sole "job", I do have my Air Force retirementalso, so not sure if that falls under the definition of being a REALrodmaker or not). I always worried that the name NUNLEY might nothave that certain ring to it that names like Garrison, Payne, Young,etc have! Maybe I'll check into what it would involve to change it...hmmmm what could we try Antonio Stradinunlius? RobertAntonio? Bobby Strad? how about we just leave AntonioStradivarius completely out of this and try...Francesco Andreas Gillum Stainer, rodmaker that would coverFrancesco Rugerri, Andreas Guarnerius and Jacob Stainer, three prettyfair fiddle builders (dont know if you could call them violin makersor not, because none of them did it full time as a living, even thoughtheir instruments are among the finest) and Pinky Gillum, a greatrodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I go for... or do you thinkthat would be a little to presumptious of me... yeah probably so...better leave the Gillum out of it and just use the other three names.Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myself a "real"rodmaker... Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I think I'lltake my Harley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop andhave my road name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in place ofit too, and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirementincome!" I think I got it covered now... I can compare myself togreat craftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimermentioning the USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a"real" rodmaker. Tight lines,F. A. Stainer (aka Bob)-----OriginalMessage-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: Re: Time Estimates>Since I have been on this list you jerkshave compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did notget muchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------602ADA6D5CDDB10A323C8752 Bob,you have hit the nail on the head. It is about image and how we wishto be perceived which is an important part of north American culture. Fatold farts on Harley's is a good example. I am not referring to you here.When I left school at 17 I took up an apprenticeship that lasted 5 day release at a technical college and the learning process is ongoing.. Rodmaking is a pastime that can be learned from a book in a coupleof weeks and I feel that Tool and Die making is more a personal I am comfortable with that because it helps with sales but in my mind Iam a tool and die maker. This could change when I retire, I guess I wouldrather be called a rodmaker than a pensioner.Terry Bob Nunley wrote: the but I was a luthier (coincidentally, I specialized in making violins *S*)long before I started making cane rods (hesitate to call myself a rodmakerbecause even though this is my sole "job", I do have my Air Forceretirementalso, so not sure if that falls under the definition of being a REALrodmaker Maybe I'll check into what it would involve to change it... hmmmm what how about we just leave Antonio Stradivarius completely out of this and that would cover Francesco Rugerri, AndreasGuarneriusand Jacob Stainer, three pretty fair fiddle builders (dont know if youcould call them violin makers or not, because none of them did it fulltime as a living, even though their instruments are among the finest) andPinky Gillum, a great rodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I go for...or do you think that would be a little to presumptious of me... yeahprobablyso... better leave the Gillum out of it and just use the other three Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myself a "real" Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I thinkI'll take my Harley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shopand have my road name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in placeof it too, and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirement I think I got it covered now... I can compare myselfto great craftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimermentioningthe USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a "real" lines,F. A. Stainer(akaBob)-----OriginalMessage-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND <hexagon@odyssee.net> <djk762@hotmail.com>Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu<RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Friday, January 21, 200010:54PMSubject: Re: TimeEstimates>SinceI have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- forpay. He did not get muchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product. David Kashuba. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------602ADA6D5CDDB10A323C8752-- from grandriverangler@sprint.ca Sun Jan 23 08:53:23 2000 Subject: Re: Urac 185 Shaun, The distributor/manufacturer of glace cotton thread in Canada is an outfitcalled Cansew in Toronto. (800) 367-8584(416) 782-1122 I can't remember how much it was, around $30.00 Canadian with a servicecharge, but if you buy a couple of spools (4800 yards 16/4) I thinnk theywaive this charge (minimum order charge??) Give them a call. Mark Babiy----- Original Message ----- Subject: Urac 185 Has anyone experimented with the mixtures of urac 185? I've heardabout people changing the ratio and adding stuff ?,Shawn from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 23 08:57:59 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:55:32 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Time Estimates Terry,That is for sure... my ex didn't think it was anything but a way todestroy our house... rods hanging everywhere, this contraption or thatbeingbuilt in the shop constantly... I built rods, she built resentment! I takemy rodmaking very seriously. I spend more time in that shop than mostpeople do at what they call a "real" job. They don't consider what I do aJOB, they think it is all fun and some kind of game I guess. To me, it is aJOB and furthermore, it is a lifestyle! Sure, there are perks... I get tofish a lot of wonderful places... when I'm not backlogged and working mybutt off trying to get the next order out! Still a job, and still a seriousundertaking for me. I have many friends that think this is just some kindof hobby for me that I happen to make a few dollars at, and they reallydon't take me, or any rodmaker for that matter, seriously. And thefriendlier you are, the less seriously you are taken. I guess we are allsupposed to be snobbish old curmudgeons that grump at anyone inquiringaboutour craft or our products. Just not the way this old southern boy is.Maybe I'm a little too lighthearted at times, and yes, I try to put a littlefun in everything, but you're right... people don't take us seriously, andthey don't think that what we do is important. Maybe someday.... maybe....And MAYBE someday we can all afford a good stage crew like Norm hastoclean up our shavings and dust, too! Bob-----Original Message----- 'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu' Subject: Re: Time Estimates This is the problem, no one else understands the importance of our work.Mywife and family take no interest except for constantly remarking on themess.Norm Abrahams on the New Yankie workshop is my wife's hero, he makebeautifulstuff in a half hour or multiples thereof and never makes a mess! Kling, Barry W. wrote: One of the main reasons I like you guys is the comparisons made to VanGoghetc. My other friends talk about me mainly in terms of Curly or Moe. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/21/00 10:56 PMSubject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 23 09:00:16 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates The best advice I can offer is that you get down the basement and makeyour ownmistakes and develop your own techniques. It is far more satisfying thanbeingspoon fed. John Hewitt wrote: Mr. Ackland,Your recent posts to this list have degenerated to namecalling. I for one am insulted. If you want to call me a jerk, fine, butpleaseinclude something beneficial to rodmaking as well. If that's not possibleIwould encourage you remove yourself from this "Rodmakers" list.I know that you have much to contribute to the subject of rodmaking,and Iam interested in everything everyone (including yourself) has to sayregardingrodmaking. However I am not interested in your personal opinions ofpeople.Please keep those opinions to yourself, and lets return to rodmaking.Thanks,John TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 09:03:54 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:03:21 -0400 Subject: Re: drying cabinets Harry,Am I reading this right? You mean you use the actual fluorescentlightbulb to dip into??? How do you do that?? And I'm assuming you must dipthen installyour guides later? Puzzled in Nova Scotia,Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: George, Steve, and others, I use a poor man's version of the PVC tube Wayne describes in hisbook.Having never seen Wayne's, I won't attempt to compare mine to his.Mine is 12" PVC pipe, with a joint at 3' from the bottom. Thereason evermove. But it wouldn't be easy. Big PVC pipe is expensive, but I bummedmine use one12" circle of 3/4" birch plywood from Home Depot as a centering device varnish tube and shelf to keep things from falling to the bottom. Anotherplywood disk serves as the top. The floor is the bottom. A 1/8" hole inthetop allows me to insert fly line backing as the pull cord. I cut a 8"x46"doorin the top section to make it easy to get rod sections in and out. Iscrewedfour cup hooks in the top piece of plywood, so this serves as both a dipstationand drying box. The door is covered with a double layer of clear painter'sdropcloth (Bisqueen?), afixed with pipe strapping and duct tape. The innerlayer isslit down the center. The outer layer is raised while dipping, andloweredwhile sections dry.I use the clear flourescent bulb tubes to hold the varnish. Glue apvcfitting on the bottom, and just press on for the top. Clear tubes make iteasyto see what you're doing. That's a great tip I got from someone on thislist.The upper chamber is lighted with one of the cheap flourescentfixturesthat just plugs in (no wiring). Rather than heat the chamber, I just heattheentire shop to about 80+*. My shop's only 7'x16', so that's no big deal.I vacuum the upper chamber out before each use, and mist it downwith aspray bottle. After waiting 15 minutes for the mist to settle, I dip onesection, then move it to one of the cup hooks to begin drying while I dipthenext section. Dipping more than one section at a time would seem torequire toomany stops at wraps and guides.There are more elegant solutions, I'm sure. But I've got about $35inmy setup, and it gives me good results. Oh, yeah, George. We use cotton because it doesn't burn at hightemp'sused in heat treating. Nylon will leave an interesting series of spiralburnmarks around the rod. Hope this helps,Harry nobler wrote: I've read more than once, some references to a PVC tube, being used asadrying "cabinet". of sorts. The advantage being that the static charge inthe tube, attracted any dust. Is anyone using such a set up ? As I plan this item, my thoughts are to be able to do 3 or 4 sections,andhang them to dry, so that the door, or entrance would not have to beopenedafter placing them on hooks. I notice all references to binding cord, speak of cotton. Cotton haslittlestretch. Is this the main reason for its use ? If a cord from nylon wasused, there would be built in stretch. Is there a disadvantage to havingtheconstant tension from such twine ? Or, is it the low price of the cotton? GMA----- Original Message ----- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 23 09:10:44 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:10:38 -0800 Subject: Re: drying cabinets Shawn Pineo wrote: Harry,Am I reading this right? You mean you use the actual fluorescentlightbulb to dip into??? How do you do that?? And I'm assuming you must dipthen installyour guides later? Puzzled in Nova Scotia,Shawn No Shawn -- but I have to admit I chuckled when I read your question. I cansee myselftrying to get all the innards out of a flourescent tube!! At Home Depot andother largehardware stores, one can buy 8' clear plastic tubes designed to protectflourescenttubes in shipping. The clear tubes hold the varnish/poly or whatever. They work wellwith pvc fittings for end caps. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 23 09:16:10 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:13:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Time Estimates boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF6582.3B852A80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF6582.3B852A80 Terry, feel old enough like it is! I understand what you are saying about Tool =and Die making being a more personal achievement, as I made my living as=an Engineer at one time. I guess I consider rodmaking a personal =acheivement also. I still have my first rod, and my 20th... First rod =looked pretty rough, compared to #20... and as good as I thought # 20 =looked, it looks pretty rough compared to #100. (many on here saw one = from the # 20 era... it casts great, but the wraps were too high, the = I guess what I am saying is that even though I considered being an =engineer a personal achievement, I also consider making cane rods a =great personal acheivement. It has taken me years to get to the point I =have reached now. A lot of time and money spent on making rods that I =would throw in the corner to swat mice with, now... but now, I take =great pride in what I do, and the product I ship out of this shop... and =it took me close to 10 years to reach this point. So, to me, this is my =greatest personal achievement, for two reasons... 1. It took a lot of =hard work and dedication to get to the point I am today (95% of it self =taught), and 2. I am doing what I love to do for a living. In that I =feel blessed and very very fortunate, because few can ever honestly say =that.But PLEASE, call me that retired guy that makes rods, or call me, =The old fart that does those split cane things, but don't call me a =pensioner! LOL Leaves a little pride, ya know! :^) Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Rod Makers List Serve Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000 8:52 AMSubject: Re: Time Estimates you have hit the nail on the head. It is about image and how we wish =to be perceived which is an important part of north American culture. =Fat old farts on Harley's is a good example. I am not referring to you = When I left school at 17 I took up an apprenticeship that lasted 5 = day release at a technical college and the learning process is = . Rodmaking is a pastime that can be learned from a book in a couple =of weeks and I feel that Tool and Die making is more a personal =achievement than being able to knock out a few rods. If others call me =rod maker I am comfortable with that because it helps with sales but in =my mind I am a tool and die maker. This could change when I retire, I = Terry, Geez, thanks for the idea! You know, I never really =considered the relationship before, but I was a luthier (coincidentally, =I specialized in making violins *S*) long before I started making cane =rods (hesitate to call myself a rodmaker because even though this is my =sole "job", I do have my Air Force retirement also, so not sure if that =falls under the definition of being a REAL rodmaker or not). I always =worried that the name NUNLEY might not have that certain ring to it that =names like Garrison, Payne, Young, etc have! Maybe I'll check into what =it would involve to change it... hmmmm what could we try Antonio =Stradinunlius? Robert Antonio? Bobby Strad? how =about we just leave Antonio Stradivarius completely out of this and =try... Francesco Andreas Gillum Stainer, rodmaker =that would cover Francesco Rugerri, Andreas Guarnerius and Jacob =Stainer, three pretty fair fiddle builders (dont know if you could call =them violin makers or not, because none of them did it full time as a =living, even though their instruments are among the finest) and Pinky =Gillum, a great rodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I go for... or do =you think that would be a little to presumptious of me... yeah probably =so... better leave the Gillum out of it and just use the other three =names. Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myself a "real" =rodmaker... Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I think I'll =take my Harley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop and =have my road name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in place of =it too, and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirement =income!" I think I got it covered now... I can compare myself to =great craftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimer =mentioning the USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a ="real" rodmaker. Tight lines,F. A. Stainer (aka Bob)-----Original = Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Time Estimates>Since I have been on this list you = The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did = pay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is = David = ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF6582.3B852A80 Terry, Pete's = me anything you want except a 'pensioner'... I feel old enough like it = I understand what you are saying about Tool and Die making being a more = and my 20th... First rod looked pretty rough, compared to #20... and as = I thought # 20 looked, it looks pretty rough compared to #100. (many on = one from the # 20 era... it casts great, but the wraps were too high, = = do, and the product I ship out of this shop... and it took me close to = the point I am today (95% of it self taught), and 2. I am doing what I = few can ever honestly say that. PLEASE, = that retired guy that makes rods, or call The old fart that does those split cane = little pride, ya know! :^) Later,Bob -----Original = = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= EstimatesBob, you have hit the nail on the = is about image and how we wish to be perceived which is an important = north American culture. Fat old farts on Harley's is a good example. = not referring to you here. When I left school at 17 I took up an = technical college and the learning process is ongoing. . = pastime that can be learned from a book in a couple of weeks and I = with that because it helps with sales but in my mind I am a tool and = maker. This could change when I retire, I guess I would rather be = before, but I was a luthier (coincidentally, I specialized in = violins *S*) long before I started making cane rods (hesitate to = myself a rodmaker because even though this is my sole = do have my Air Force retirement also, so not sure if that falls = that the name NUNLEY might not have that certain ring to it that = = that would cover Francesco Rugerri, = Guarnerius and Jacob Stainer, three pretty fair fiddle builders = know if you could call them violin makers or not, because none = did it full time as a living, even though their instruments are = the finest) and Pinky Gillum, a great rodmaker... Hmmmm that may = name I go for... or do you think that would be a little to = of me... yeah probably so... better leave the Gillum out of it = yeah, when this cold front moves out, I think I'll take my = and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop and have my road = "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in = it too, and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force = now... I can compare myself to great craftsmen of the past, yet = put that little disclaimer mentioning the USAF retirement =