Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:08:01 +0800 Subject: Re: Goldenrods I worked in a mountaineering shop for a while and a guy called KimCarriganwho was at that time one of the best rockclimbers anywhere used to sellMammut brand rope by telling people they are the most expensive ropesyoucan buy in Australia. He sold a lot of Mammut ropes. My best sales pitch was when I'd sell plastic mtneering boots and convincethe guy he needed aveolit liners rather than the felt ones standard ( a fewyears back this). The aveloite liners were $200 and everybody alwaysbaulked at the price so I kept a hacksaw under the counter and always said"at $200 that's $10 a toe. Which ones would you be happyest loosing?" Itworked best if you waved the hacksaw under their noses at the time. Nevermissed a sale on aveolite liners. These same people who you had to use these tequniques to get to buy theright boots and liners would without hesitation buy the most outravouslycurved ( and so sexy) ice axes and hammers in the shop without evenaskingthe price.Grivel should have used platinum for the cutting edges, they'd have sold alot more. Wouldn't matter that the edge would be much good, they'd lookterriffic in the summit shots. Tony At 11:36 AM 1/9/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:I was just looking at the web site for JW Fly rods who advertises a flyrod with solid gold ferrules, reelseat bands and tip top for $5000 andit was proudly announced as the most expensive fly rod on the market.I only hope the trout appreciate the hard work that rodmakers put in ontheir behalf! Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan 9 11:22:03 2000 Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:21:41 +0800 Subject: Re: Goldenrods Sorry, obviously that's $20 per toe. My mind was a trip I'm planing toTasmania where they aren't always made the same as most people. Hearing"Dueling Banjos" filtering through the trees everywhere you go there keepsyou on the ball ;-) Tony the guy he needed aveolit liners rather than the felt ones standard ( a fewyears back this). The aveloite liners were $200 and everybody alwaysbaulked at the price so I kept a hacksaw under the counter and alwayssaid"at $200 that's $10 a toe. Which ones would you be happyest loosing?" Itworked best if you waved the hacksaw under their noses at the time.Nevermissed a sale on aveolite liners. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 9 11:56:13 2000 Subject: Re: Goldenrods I was just looking at the web site for JW Fly rods who advertises a fly rod with solid gold ferrules, reelseat bands and tip top for $5000 and it was proudly announced as the most expensive fly rod on the market. I only hope the trout appreciate the hard work that rodmakers put in on their behalf! No way is that is expensive ! Consider, many of the older cane IS valuedhigher than that. Not fished with it, but wiggled it a tad. When it getsabove $5K in value, I revert to the "it might break" stage. Don't knowabout the rich folk out there, but would figure it this way, they have somuch money, they have to keep spending it on something. I don't begrudgethem that, *I* spend up to my limit :-) suecolorado from saweiss@flash.net Sun Jan 9 11:57:40 2000 Subject: Re: Goldenrods Terry,I'm sure the trout appreciate being caught on one of our rods rather thanona willow stick and a worm.Steve I was just looking at the web site for JW Fly rods who advertises a flyrod with solid gold ferrules, reelseat bands and tip top for $5000 andit was proudly announced as the most expensive fly rod on the market.I only hope the trout appreciate the hard work that rodmakers put in ontheir behalf! Terry from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 9 12:01:50 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Paul:I take enamel off before final planing with the LN Scraper. I then hit it gently with 400 grit wet/dry paper to even out any scraping bites, but a razor sharp scraper will work really well. On my first rod, I did not take the enamel off until after gluing and I feel it added to the problem with that rod having slightly off flats. from now on I am scraping before final planing. Perfectly flat strips on all 3 sides fit best into the planing form. This gives me better splines after final planing.I am also very careful; to wipe off excess glue after binding so that I don't have to go nuts to get it off and then get into the power fibers. This is easy to do when you have tons of glue left on the blank.Let's see what the experts have to say.Bob At 08:59 AM 1/9/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi, When setting the planning forms how much do you add to account Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 9 12:19:18 2000 Subject: original hardware on old cane The recent thread on photographing and documenting cane on a website isinteresting to me, as I've said. In part because I will have and will bebuying lesser-known cane I suppose for several years. No set aside funds Just recently purchased a little older 4 wt cane. I already own a 3 wtbuilt by same maker. In dealing with the former owner of the 4wt, he'thought' the cane had the original hardware on it. That WAS one of myinterests when inquiring about it. Although to be honest, the taper/actionis what I was really after. Yesterday I was at one of my local flyshops when cane collector came in. Ihappened to have the 4 wt cane in question with me. He had had some ofthe same rodmaker's work himself, so when he took look at my rod, heimmediately pronounced that the reel seat was not the original. Guides,wrapping, ferrule, etc. were, but not the reelseat. Had I known what the original rod maker's work was on this rod, andfurtherqueried the seller, I would have still bought the rod. After all, it WASthe taper/action I was after. But it would be nice to know what theoriginal rodmaker had built. and back to the original point, would havebeen good had I a source or two to access to see what WAS the originalwork. Consider this, most of you that ARE contemporary cane rodmakers ? Your'work' will be scrutinized some 20-30 years from now, people like mewondering, " ...mmm is this the original hardware and reel seat ? " *VBG* suecolorado from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 9 12:43:00 2000 Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:42:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Here's how I have been doing it so far: add .020"- .030" on tip and buttstrip tapers when initially planing then reset your forms to theprescribed taper, set the strips in enamel up and sand the enamel (Ileave just a bit). Then take a couple of passes on each side with fineset plane or scraper to bring it down to its final dimensions.There arelots of other ways but this seems to work for me, Shawn Paul Goodwin wrote: Hi, When setting the planning forms how much do you add to account Paul from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Jan 9 12:43:37 2000 Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods boundary="=====================_947461396==_" --=====================_947461396==_ At 11:15 AM 1/9/2000 -0500, Ed Riddle wrote: Doug: 0000,0000,8080Michael Sinclair, in his "BambooRodRestoration Handbook" page 29, has a one-page Rod Log that seems tocoverwhat you're saying. I don't have the h'ware to show it, and would needto get written permission from Centennial Publications anyway. Ed 0000,0000,8080Arial-----OriginalMessage----- ArialDouglasP. Easton dpeaston@wzrd.com> piscator@crosswinds.netpiscator@crosswinds.net>;jourdoktorn@chello.sejourdoktorn@chello.se>; RODMAKERSrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods At 08:41 PM 1/8/2000 -0500, Brian D. Creekwrote: Great idea! It seems to me that if we go to the trouble to make highinformation content photos we should also include some documentation ofthe rod. Sometimes even the best photos do not tell the whole story. Mywife has been involved in documenting antique quilts. There is usualy astory behind every one of them. Also there other crticaly important picesof info that do not show. Perhaps a standar documentation form should beincluded for each rod. JMHO 0000,0000,8080 from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 14:52:40 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:43:31 -0600 Subject: Re: original hardware on old cane An excellent point ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: original hardware on old cane The recent thread on photographing and documenting cane on a website isinteresting to me, as I've said. In part because I will have and will bebuying lesser-known cane I suppose for several years. No set asidefunds Just recently purchased a little older 4 wt cane. I already own a 3 wtbuilt by same maker. In dealing with the former owner of the 4wt, he'thought' the cane had the original hardware on it. That WAS one of myinterests when inquiring about it. Although to be honest, thetaper/actionis what I was really after. Yesterday I was at one of my local flyshops when cane collector came in.Ihappened to have the 4 wt cane in question with me. He had had some ofthe same rodmaker's work himself, so when he took look at my rod, heimmediately pronounced that the reel seat was not the original. Guides,wrapping, ferrule, etc. were, but not the reelseat. Had I known what the original rod maker's work was on this rod, andfurtherqueried the seller, I would have still bought the rod. After all, it WASthe taper/action I was after. But it would be nice to know what theoriginal rodmaker had built. and back to the original point, would havebeen good had I a source or two to access to see what WAS the originalwork. Consider this, most of you that ARE contemporary cane rodmakers ? Your'work' will be scrutinized some 20-30 years from now, people like mewondering, " ...mmm is this the original hardware and reel seat ? "*VBG* suecolorado from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 14:55:35 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:46:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just leveling thenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most all theenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Paul:I take enamel off before final planing with the LN Scraper. I then hit itgently with 400 grit wet/dry paper to even out any scraping bites, but arazor sharp scraper will work really well. On my first rod, I did not takethe enamel off until after gluing and I feel it added to the problem withthat rod having slightly off flats. from now on I am scraping before finalplaning. Perfectly flat strips on all 3 sides fit best into the planingform. This gives me better splines after final planing.I am also very careful; to wipe off excess glue after binding so that Idon't have to go nuts to get it off and then get into the power fibers.This is easy to do when you have tons of glue left on the blank.Let's see what the experts have to say.Bob At 08:59 AM 1/9/00 -0500, you wrote:Hi, When setting the planning forms how much do you add to account Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from cphisey@neca.com Sun Jan 9 16:09:28 2000 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing Here's what I've got on it "A.J.Thramer" on 05/06/98 12:05:08 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: 4'4" Guide Spacing A bit of housecleaning today.... The guide spacing for the 4'4" taper from a couple of months ago 4.00" 1/08.25" 1/013.50" #120.00" #228.00" Strip Guide A.J.Thramer from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 9 17:31:06 2000 Sun, 9 Jan 2000 15:30:58 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just leveling thenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most all theenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives it agreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name for it, andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. It is alittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers most oftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, and itescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part of thebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to remove noneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamel thereisremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heat treating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Still othersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel. Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of the powerfibers from.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel before gluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for its laterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that I misunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 17:45:40 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:46:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions ! Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives it agreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name for it,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. It isalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers most oftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, and itescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part of thebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heat treating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Still othersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel. Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of the powerfibers isfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel before gluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for its laterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 9 17:48:02 2000 Sun, 9 Jan 2000 15:47:54 -0800 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions ! Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 Maybe we remove it because the fibers underneath have the real beautyand depth! Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 9 18:27:16 2000 Subject: Re: original hardware on old cane sue,The idea of rods being scrutinized in 20 or 30 years time seem a littlepretentious.I thought we were making fishing poles here, not works of art. Any dummycanbuild a cane fly rod (uncle?), with the help of one of the many books outthere.A rod can knocked out in a couple of weeks once the equipment has beenacquiredthat could in theory cast just as well as any rod.When folk talk of rods having some sort of value other than being just nicelooking tools, I feel uncomfortable. I think that any rodmaker who suggesttocustomers that their products will appreciate as a collectible isdishonest.Just make what you think a good flyrod should be guys and forget abouttherest.Terry sue kreutzer wrote: The recent thread on photographing and documenting cane on a website isinteresting to me, as I've said. In part because I will have and will bebuying lesser-known cane I suppose for several years. No set asidefunds Just recently purchased a little older 4 wt cane. I already own a 3 wtbuilt by same maker. In dealing with the former owner of the 4wt, he'thought' the cane had the original hardware on it. That WAS one of myinterests when inquiring about it. Although to be honest, thetaper/actionis what I was really after. Yesterday I was at one of my local flyshops when cane collector came in.Ihappened to have the 4 wt cane in question with me. He had had some ofthe same rodmaker's work himself, so when he took look at my rod, heimmediately pronounced that the reel seat was not the original. Guides,wrapping, ferrule, etc. were, but not the reelseat. Had I known what the original rod maker's work was on this rod, andfurtherqueried the seller, I would have still bought the rod. After all, it WASthe taper/action I was after. But it would be nice to know what theoriginal rodmaker had built. and back to the original point, would have>been good had I a source or two to access to see what WAS the originalwork. Consider this, most of you that ARE contemporary cane rodmakers ? Your'work' will be scrutinized some 20-30 years from now, people like mewondering, " ...mmm is this the original hardware and reel seat ? " *VBG* suecolorado from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 9 18:34:25 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:32:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, in growth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to be there.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to "scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removing theenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a couple ofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depth ofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions ! Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives it agreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name for it,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. It isalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part of thebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heat treating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel. Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers isfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for its laterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan 9 18:50:24 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AC9BDC702A6; Sun, 09 Jan 2000 19:49:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly gives themprotection built in by nature. Yeah, but it'd look like your cherry bedroom set would if they left thebark on the dresser drawers *G*Art from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jan 9 19:04:50 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: RE: Settings for lanning forms There's a third reason to remove the enamel. For those of us whoimpregnatetheir rods instead of varnishing them, removing the enamel helps the caneabsorb the solution. Richard George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... Firstis to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a roundedappearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 19:48:55 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:39:45 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms O.K. such a small amount I can understand. It just sounded like allot more.Not that I know that much or anything, but I've understood about the cane'sstructure a long tome, but I had not seen, nor heard this scraping of theenamel discussed. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, in growth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to be there.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to"scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removingtheenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a coupleofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depth ofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions !Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly givesthemprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives itagreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name forit,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. Itisalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part ofthebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heattreating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel.Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers removedisfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for itslaterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from miler257@gateway.net Sun Jan 9 20:27:33 2000 Subject: truncated ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680 New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if anyone =can tell me their experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing =stories about broken sections because the shorter ferrules are attached =to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought standard size ferrules = welcome. Ed Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680 New question. I'm planning a three= I'm wondering if anyone can tell me their experience with truncated = I'm hearing stories about broken sections because the shorter ferrules = attached to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought standard size = Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF5AE0.7FB7F680-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Jan 9 20:28:15 2000 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I have an old rod that was finished with the enamel left on the outersurfaces.The outer surface has that "Round" look between each strip. The varnishflakesoff real easy, it did not bond with the enamel surface. This rod might ofbeenmade in someone's home workshop many years ago. It is real rough and lotsofglue lines. Getting back to the original question. I don't think the varnishwill hold up applied over the enamel.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 9 20:39:14 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:39:09 -0800 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods Ralph There is plenty of room on the Rodmakers Site now. I can easily buildnewpages to go with the rod tapers to attach pictures of the rod. I also havedigital cameraand scanner if needed. I can put both low resolution and high resolutionpictures on thepage. I have plenty of bandwidth on my cable modem so large files are nota problem ifsomebody takes pictures or scans one and sends to me. I will format andpost it. Putting it on Rodmakers with the tapers will keep everything in oneplace. Chris On Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:53:05 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote: Who will we get to archive them????????????????????????Ralph from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan 9 20:39:46 2000 Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:39:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms I've found when gluing scarfs glue wont hold on the enamel, you notice thiswhen you dress the scarf. Tony At 07:31 PM 1/9/00 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote:I have an old rod that was finished with the enamel left on the outersurfaces.The outer surface has that "Round" look between each strip. The varnishflakesoff real easy, it did not bond with the enamel surface. This rod might ofbeenmade in someone's home workshop many years ago. It is real rough andlots ofglue lines. Getting back to the original question. I don't think the varnishwill hold up applied over the enamel.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 9 20:41:10 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 20:38:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,You are right that some rods do not have the enamel scraped or sandedoff of them. I refinished (not restored) a Union Hardware rod for agentleman a couple of years ago, that had the enamel still on it except ofcourse at the nodes. Scraped it off and it was a beautiful little rod...Cast like a broomstick, but pretty. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms O.K. such a small amount I can understand. It just sounded like allot more.Not that I know that much or anything, but I've understood about thecane'sstructure a long tome, but I had not seen, nor heard this scraping of theenamel discussed. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 6:32 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is toinsurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, ingrowth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to bethere.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to"scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removingtheenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a coupleofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depthofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions !Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamelisremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly givesthemprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond justlevelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have mostalltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which givesitagreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name forit,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. Itisalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers,anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part ofthebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus theenamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at alaterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heattreating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove theenamel.Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers removedisfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for itslaterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 9 21:25:03 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:22:47 -0600 Subject: Book!!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0 Anyone who doesn't have one... The Garrison/Carmichael book, A Masters =Guide..etc... There is one on ebay up for auction right now. It is =item # 233611447. Just to keep record straight, it isn't me that has it =listed, and don't know the person who does. Just thought if someone was =looking for a copy, you might get this one reasonable. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0 Anyone who doesn't have one... The Garrison/Carmichael book, A = looking for a copy, you might get this one reasonable. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_03D8_01BF5AE7.CB880EE0-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 10 05:27:28 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA2A1AE50126; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 05:53:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods Chris,Since I got this new scanner, I'm dangerous. I've been scanning in ads makers(Thomas, Edwards, Granger, etc.) from magazines from the 30's-60's.These can be highlyinformative. Do you want these on rodmakers?Best regards,Reed Chris Bogart wrote: Ralph There is plenty of room on the Rodmakers Site now. I can easilybuild newpages to go with the rod tapers to attach pictures of the rod. I also havedigitalcameraand scanner if needed. I can put both low resolution and high resolutionpictures onthepage. I have plenty of bandwidth on my cable modem so large files arenot a problem ifsomebody takes pictures or scans one and sends to me. I will format andpost it. Putting it on Rodmakers with the tapers will keep everything in oneplace. Chris On Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:53:05 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote: Who will we get to archive them????????????????????????Ralph Chris Bogart wrote: Ralph There is plenty of room on the Rodmakers Site now. I can easilybuild newpages to go with the rod tapers to attach pictures of the rod. I also havedigitalcamera and scanner if needed. I can put both low resolution and high resolutionpictures onthepage. I have plenty of bandwidth on my cable modem so large files arenot a problem ifsomebody takes pictures or scans one and sends to me. I will format andpost it. Putting it on Rodmakers with the tapers will keep everything inone place. Chris On Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:53:05 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote: Who will we get to archive them????????????????????????Ralph from harry37@epix.net Mon Jan 10 07:20:09 2000 IAA03737; Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods Ralph--Nice way to do it. This is something everyone on the list who owns orhas access to a digital camera or a scanner can help with. Suggestion-- Someone with sufficient web savvy and foresight should develop photo(which shots) and format (.jpg, .tiff, etc)specifications so that anyonecan contribute. I know enough about the subject to see a potentialproblem unless a standard is created, but unfortunately not enough aboutthe subject to suggest technical specs. Great idea Brian! Greg Ralph W Moon wrote: I was just playing but take a look athttp://www.MyClassicRods.eboard.com Ralph from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 10 07:43:41 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:34:28 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms So much depends on the grade of the culm that was started with. I havequitea few older rods, from at least 50 years ago. Some have most all theenamelleft on, some do not. Two in particular show the importance of having canewith more power fibers. These rods are mostly with all of the enamel, yetthe node areas are very rough and porous. The condition indicates to memorethan just poor or sloppy work ! Interestingly, it took a very heavy coating of the Citristrip, to get theold varnish off. One old butt section, which is all that I have, has a swelled butt at thegrip, and I must assume it was an 8' 3 - pc. rod, for perhaps a 4 or 5 wt.,and a decidedly "dry fly" action. At first I thought it might be Calcuttacane, as it is very blonde, with dark burned marks sporadically along theenamel. The node areas are not porous however, which indicates to me,thiswas from better cane. Since we are dealing with "Nature's product", we are always going to havevariation in quality of the "product", no matter how good or talented thecraftsman ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Settings for lanning forms George,My thoughts... enamel is removed for two reasons... First is to insurethat the outer flats of the rod are flat. The enamel is radiused bynature, and if you don't remove it, you have a rounded appearance to therod's surfaces.. Second is aesthetics (sp?) The power fibers running thelength from node to node are much more pleasing to the eye than theratherbland and plain look of the enamel. As far as protection, yes, in growth,the enamel protected the inner structure of the cane, but on a rod, wereplace that with varnish, so there is no need for the enamel to be there.Actually, the enamel is so thin, that you have no choice but to"scrape"or sand slightly into the upper surface fiber structure when removingtheenamel, but the trade off in appearance is worth that. I think a coupleofthousandths of surface removed is insignificant considering the depth ofthepower fibers on a good culm. Bob-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms Never any offense taken, just like there are no dumb questions !Everyonehas to learn about something. I'm still surprised that so much enamel isremoved, since it is bonded to the power fibers, and certainly givesthemprotection built in by nature. An interesting discussion 1 GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Settings for lanning forms nobler wrote: I'm a bit puzzled by this removal of the enamel, beyond just levelingthenodes. I have some older rods, well made, that seem to have most alltheenamel. How much are we speaking of removing in this operation ? GMA George,What's puzzling you may be a matter of semantics. By "enamel"rodmakersusually mean the outermost coating of the bamboo, that which gives itagreenappearance while it is still growing. There is a technical name forit,andhopefully someone will chime in and remind me what that name is. Itisalittlebit like the "bark" on a tree.I suspect that you are thinking of what we as rodmakers mostoftencall"power fibers." Again, there is a technical term for these fibers, anditescapes me. The "power fibers" are the most dense and hard part ofthebamboo.Almost all rodmakers remove all the "enamel" while trying to removenoneof the"power fibers" which lie immediately beneath.You are correct that the nodes are leveled, and thus the enamelthere isremoved. But all the enamel between nodes is also removed at a laterstage ofbuilding a rod. Some makers remove all the enamel after heattreating,andbefore final planing. Others remove a thousandth of an inch of so ofenamelafter heat treating, then remove the remainder after gluing. Stillothersonlyremove the enamel after gluing. But all rodmakers remove the enamel.Infact,some members of this list (not me) also remove about .010" of thepowerfibers removedisfrom.002" - .004" thick. If one does not remove all the enamel beforegluing,thenforms have to be set oversize so that an allowance is made for itslaterremoval, and the strips will be correctly sized.If this basic explanation is off the mark, know that Imisunderstood. Iam in no way trying to belittle you, just to explain some terms. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Jan 10 07:44:59 2000 Subject: Re: Following the grain I seriously doubt that one does any significant "realignment" of fiberssimply by straightening the nodes--nodal anatomy is far more complexthanthat. Perhaps I misunderstand, but straightening the nodes for the mostpart is to permit accurate planing. Indeed, I am considering taking on a project to look at nodal anatomy andfiber bundle arrangement in bamboo by microtoming 6- 8 micrometer thinsections both in longitudinal and transverse section. These will then bemade into microscope slides, stained and photographed at variousmagnifications. among the things I want to look at:1. size and thickness of fiber walls across a transverse section. Ratio offibers to parenchyma (pith) cells from epidermis to center. 2. Thickness of cuticle and epidermis to see just how much CAN be sandedoff the outside without destroying some of the outermost fibers.3. nodal anatomy--how many and in what manner fibers "pass through" thenode.among others that I am certain will come up. Unfortunately, this would be easier to do with '"green" bamboo consistingof living cells than with dried bamboo due to getting infiltration ofparaffin into the cells (to you folks this is analogous to a type ofimpregnation).J. Snider At 04:03 PM 01/07/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:As I understand it, the wandering of the fibers is not a worry, providingeach one has the node deformities straightened. This brings all back intogeneral alignment, so that when planed, a minimum of fibers are cutacrossthe "grain". Someone correct this, if I'm in error. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Snider" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI readily admit it. As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW far do they wander? Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of aninch?Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then planed down tofinal, might not you plane away all of those wandering fibers? Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and observe how, over a several inch length section, the attached fibersforming a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob, I don't know how much time might be saved if any. I was thinking interms ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splitsataslow pace. The need to straighten sweeps would still be there. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM: Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting,andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off thebandsaw. I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it sojustclick on it and it'll give you the pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg andyou'llseethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, very fastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the most severesweep I have seen at a node). If you were to index, somehow, so thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten the strip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down thepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing straight throughthissection would have definitely made a number of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. If youindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or timeatall. Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftryingto "follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjustsplitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out of the same culm. The only difference betweenthisand the only sawn strips I have ever seen is that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers and the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just confused as towhyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time andtrouble tofollow the grain. Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying to cutalongthegrain. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain I see what you're saying. However, are sawn strips as straight as yousayonce they are separated from the main body? Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in half, and thus the grain is followedtothat point as I said previously, or if it were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up to that point. Sawing3/16"strips away from a previous line of split would be following thegrain.Ithink the significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rods wasmoredue to sawing from the start and not doing the initial splitting to the twist in the culm and then following the split line. Just myopinion. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM: Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, when astrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the strip bybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually, in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain ofthecane than sawing does. When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by 2, 3 or 4 fiber's width. Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look down it and you can plainly see that the strip hassweeps and bends in it, following the general grain of the bamboo.Just notstraightened. When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,itwas close to an inch from a line from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but nontheless, generally followingthegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. Sure, it is perfectly straight,oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been the drastic sweeps inthestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip. In somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not havebutvery few continuous fibers even from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibersnotonly from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even possible that, in some extremecases,sawing strips could eliminate continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes. Splitting will not do this. With splitting, for thegreatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of fibers from node to node. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to handsplit aculm. But....... aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do. When people think ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior forcontinuityof grain. Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it to go(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternatingpressureetc. We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in order to sawtofinish the process and get very nice square strips. I know "we" coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splitting asifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me. Sawing wouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant. Chris from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 10 07:45:25 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:36:17 -0600 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320 Personally, I think you got the correct ferrules. I'd opt for strength, =and reliability, over a small weight saving ! GMA Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 8:31 PMSubject: truncated ferrules New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if =anyone can tell me their experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing =stories about broken sections because the shorter ferrules are attached =to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought standard size ferrules = welcome. Ed Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320 Personally, I think you got the correct = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 = PMSubject: truncated =ferrules New question. I'm planning athree = and I'm wondering if anyone can tell me their experience with = ferrules. I'm hearing stories about broken sections because the = ferrules are attached to a smaller length of cane. Therefore I bought = size ferrules for the 3 piece travel rod that I need for a trip out = Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF5B3E.C5B16320-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan 10 09:14:29 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:12:11 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Following the grain Jerry,As rodmakers, our perception, and experience with nodes is that thefibers from one section to the other sort of "weave" together there. Whensplitting the culm, the split will generally jump or sweep to one side andfollow the "realignment" of the fibers... in other words... fibers A1, B1and C1 from section one, interlace in a way with fibers A2, B2, and C2 insection two... so there is a continuity of sorts. If you don't straightenthis node, then when you plane across it, the ends of the fibers in the nextsection that are NOT in line with the fibers from the previous section,tendto lift, or tear out instead of being cut. The straighter the node, themore inline the interlaced fibers and the lower the probability of tear outat the node.Not really a technical view, but like I said, from a rodmakersstandpoint, that is my experience. Thought that might help in aninterpretation of your findings as they relate to making fly rods. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Following the grain I seriously doubt that one does any significant "realignment" of fiberssimply by straightening the nodes--nodal anatomy is far more complexthanthat. Perhaps I misunderstand, but straightening the nodes for the mostpart is to permit accurate planing.Indeed, I am considering taking on a project to look at nodal anatomy andfiber bundle arrangement in bamboo by microtoming 6- 8 micrometer thinsections both in longitudinal and transverse section. These will then bemade into microscope slides, stained and photographed at variousmagnifications. among the things I want to look at:1. size and thickness of fiber walls across a transverse section. Ratio offibers to parenchyma (pith) cells from epidermis to center.2. Thickness of cuticle and epidermis to see just how much CAN besandedoff the outside without destroying some of the outermost fibers.3. nodal anatomy--how many and in what manner fibers "pass through"thenode.among others that I am certain will come up.Unfortunately, this would be easier to do with '"green" bamboo consistingof living cells than with dried bamboo due to getting infiltration ofparaffin into the cells (to you folks this is analogous to a type ofimpregnation).J. Snider At 04:03 PM 01/07/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:As I understand it, the wandering of the fibers is not a worry, providingeach one has the node deformities straightened. This brings all back intogeneral alignment, so that when planed, a minimum of fibers are cutacrossthe "grain". Someone correct this, if I'm in error. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Snider" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing something here,andI readily admit it. As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW far do they wander? Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of aninch?Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then planed downtofinal, might not you plane away all of those wandering fibers? Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and observe how, over a several inch length section, the attachedfibersforming a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob, I don't know how much time might be saved if any. I was thinking interms ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk the splitsataslow pace. The need to straighten sweeps would still be there. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM: Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting,andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off thebandsaw. I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it sojustclick on it and it'll give you the pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg andyou'llseethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, veryfastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the mostseveresweep I have seen at a node). If you were to index, somehow, so thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten thestrip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut down thepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing straight throughthissection would have definitely made a number of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. Ifyouindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or timeatall. Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftryingto "follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjustsplitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out of the same culm. The only difference betweenthisand the only sawn strips I have ever seen is that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers and the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just confused as towhyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time andtrouble tofollow the grain. Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying to cutalongthegrain. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain I see what you're saying. However, are sawn strips as straight asyousayonce they are separated from the main body? Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in half, and thus the grain isfollowedtothat point as I said previously, or if it were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up to that point. Sawing3/16"strips away from a previous line of split would be following thegrain.Ithink the significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rodswasmoredue to sawing from the start and not doing the initial splitting to the twist in the culm and then following the split line. Just myopinion. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM: Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, whenastrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the stripbybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually, in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grain ofthecane than sawing does. When you correct a split, many times you areonlycorrecting by 2, 3 or 4 fiber's width. Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look down it and you can plainly see that the striphassweeps and bends in it, following the general grain of the bamboo.Just>>> >>for curiosity's sake, I laid a strip on the bench, that was split,butnotstraightened. When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,itwas close to an inch from a line from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but nontheless, generally followingthegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. Sure, it is perfectly straight,oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off of a sawn strip, you canseethat it was sawn across what would have been the drastic sweeps inthestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip. In somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might not havebutvery few continuous fibers even from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the culm wasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibersnotonly from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even possible that, in some extremecases,sawing strips could eliminate continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes. Splitting will not do this. With splitting, for thegreatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of fibers from node to node. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how to handsplit aculm. But....... aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do. When people think ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows the grainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior forcontinuityof grain. Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it togo(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternatingpressureetc. We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto sawtofinish the process and get very nice square strips. I know "we"coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splittingasifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me. Sawingwouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant. Chris from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jan 10 09:42:29 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Pictures of original classic rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu That's an important point... photos take up a lot os space, especially bigones... In my website, I had a photo gallery area setup for rod collectorsto post their own photos at will without requiring the webmaster (me) todoanything... It did require the user to upload the pics to a web host or totheir own web site and it did require them to know how to properly usethehtml coding... the disadvantage was that the pics would not be centrallylocated and a permanent archive would not be preserved. I closed it aboutaweek ago for lack of interest... I'm glad to see so many others taking upthe challenge. If someone comes up with a site that could be a long term depository, itseems to me that it should have a searchable database and that thesubmitting person should take the time and describe in detail the rod andit's history. I'm in the process of building a new website, but it probably won't beonline for a couple of months... I haven't signed with a web host yet, butthe 1st place contender offers 100mb/$24.95 per month. A site that willstore hundreds or thousands of high quality digital pics needs to be a lotbigger than 100 mg, I suspect... Anybody have any web hosts they canrecommend to me OFF LIST? Planning to add ecommerce/c cards... Thanks. I'm concerned about the free sites as well... most are 6mths or 1 year oldand will they be around in 2-5-10 years... if they shut down shop, it'sunlikely they will give enough advance warning to archive all the picsbefore close... Perhaps the AFFM might be willing to commit to a long termproject such as this... An alternative might be to develop a simple searchable database with picsoncd-rom. Perhaps a MS Access database with photos and the database couldbepurchased for a nominal cost to cover shipping/duplication/databasemaintenence like shareware. Or it could even be a commercial product, butthe success would depend on the participation of the collector community. The advantages is that it would be MUCH faster, on media that has a 50yearlife, searchable, no worries about the web site disappearing or running outof web space. "Marty Keane photos" - I chatted with him about a week or two ago abouthispics... If I recall, he told me he uses a medium format camera of Germanmanufacture and it was at least a 4"X5" negative. Also with a bellows typecamera for precision depth of field control... his picture quality goes wellbeyond the quality available from most if not all digital cameras... Mostpics that fit a normal computer monitor with the full length photo justdon't have the resolution to be of too much value, at least for me... itdoes tell me that all the sections are either full length or damaged and ifthere is a set in the sections... If you do have camera with high resolution2megapixel+, the .jpeg photo files will be huge and takes lots of diskspace, VERY slow to load so that's a couple drawbacks that I see... Just my two cents... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods All,Are these sites likely to stay up or are they temporary by nature?Thereason I'm asking is that I'm transferring the messages with the URLs intoa "Go here to find picture" mailbox so I don't have to download all thosefiles to my hard-drive. Should I grab the pictures while I can and transferthem to floppies or can I reasonably expect to return to your sites andfind them when I need them?TIA,Art At 02:19 AM 01/09/2000 +0100, jan nystråm wrote:Hi folks, I did follow the suggestion by Ralph W. Moon earlier and did post acouple of rods from my collection just to see how it looked. I triedto choose pictures where you can see details of interest.Take a look andjudge. Here it is:http://Classic_Rods_Gallery.eboard.com Best,Jan Nystrom from jshane@nature.snr.uvm.edu Mon Jan 10 09:43:50 2000 Subject: unsubscribing help I am sorry for the waste of BW, but I need to unsubscribe for a while, andI have lost instructions HOW.. can someone please tell me? thanks j. ==============================================================================I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it==============================================================================John Shane (802) 656- 2907University of Vermont jshane@nature.snr.uvm.eduForestry Department FAX -- (802)656-8683Burlington, Vt. 05405 from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Mon Jan 10 10:19:39 2000 Subject: Leonard 38H taper Here's the taper taken from Harry Darbee's 38H.0 = .064, 5 = .078, 10 = .094, 15 = .110, 20 = .124, 25 = .139, 30 = .147,35 = .159, 40 = .168, 45 = .183, 50 = .198, 55 = .207, 60 = .215, 65 = .229, 70 = .238, slightswell starts 73 = .255, 74 = .265, 75 = .292 grip 5 thou was subtracted for varnish Guide spacing 5", 10 1/4, 15 3/4, 21 3/4, 28 1/8, 35, 42 7/8 (buttsupagainst female ferrule), 51, 59(stripper).. Best, Dennis from ernie2@pacbell.net Mon Jan 10 10:23:31 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: What would you make? Hi,I am a newly to rodmakers, but have thought about making a bamboo rodforseveral years. I think it would be 7' 6" for 4/5 weight line It would be atwo piece 5 sided rod with an up locking reel seat. I think that would bethe easiest for me to make. It will be used to fish for trout in streamsand small rivers. I would appreciate any thoughts you have about this andthe taper you would use.Ernie Harrison from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Jan 10 10:45:21 2000 Subject: Re: Following the grain Bob, I don't think we disagree at all!J. SniderAt 09:13 AM 01/10/2000 - 0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Jerry,As rodmakers, our perception, and experience with nodes is that thefibers from one section to the other sort of "weave" together there. Whensplitting the culm, the split will generally jump or sweep to one side andfollow the "realignment" of the fibers... in other words... fibers A1, B1and C1 from section one, interlace in a way with fibers A2, B2, and C2 insection two... so there is a continuity of sorts. If you don't straightenthis node, then when you plane across it, the ends of the fibers in thenextsection that are NOT in line with the fibers from the previous section,tendto lift, or tear out instead of being cut. The straighter the node, themore inline the interlaced fibers and the lower the probability of tear outat the node.Not really a technical view, but like I said, from a rodmakersstandpoint, that is my experience. Thought that might help in aninterpretation of your findings as they relate to making fly rods. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 8:17 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain I seriously doubt that one does any significant "realignment" of fiberssimply by straightening the nodes--nodal anatomy is far more complexthanthat. Perhaps I misunderstand, but straightening the nodes for the mostpart is to permit accurate planing.Indeed, I am considering taking on a project to look at nodal anatomy andfiber bundle arrangement in bamboo by microtoming 6- 8 micrometerthinsections both in longitudinal and transverse section. These will then bemade into microscope slides, stained and photographed at variousmagnifications. among the things I want to look at:1. size and thickness of fiber walls across a transverse section. Ratio offibers to parenchyma (pith) cells from epidermis to center.2. Thickness of cuticle and epidermis to see just how much CAN besandedoff the outside without destroying some of the outermost fibers.3. nodal anatomy--how many and in what manner fibers "pass through"thenode.among others that I am certain will come up.Unfortunately, this would be easier to do with '"green" bambooconsistingof living cells than with dried bamboo due to getting infiltration ofparaffin into the cells (to you folks this is analogous to a type ofimpregnation).J. Snider At 04:03 PM 01/07/2000 -0600, nobler wrote:As I understand it, the wandering of the fibers is not a worry, providingeach one has the node deformities straightened. This brings all backintogeneral alignment, so that when planed, a minimum of fibers are cutacrossthe "grain". Someone correct this, if I'm in error. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Snider" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: Re: Following the grain Regarding the sawing of strips, obviously I am missing somethinghere,andI readily admit it. As a plant anatomist, I know that fibers are notabsolutely parallel, but just HOW far do they wander? Micrometers?Millimeters? Centimeters? thousandths of an inch, hundredths of aninch?Iwould assume that if you cut the rough strip wider (how wide wouldobviously be important) than the final planed strip, then planed downtofinal, might not you plane away all of those wandering fibers? Perhapsnot if you are splitting a culm to 32 strips (although I am not totallyconvinced even here), but how many of us do that?I am in the process of preparing a thin slice of a longitudinal strip ofbamboo in the lab to determine the actual length of a single fiber(cell),and observe how, over a several inch length section, the attachedfibersforming a single "filament" wander.Sorry for my ignorance, but the nice thing about the list is that itcontinues to educate.J. Snider At 09:04 AM 01/07/2000 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:Bob, I don't know how much time might be saved if any. I was thinking interms ofgetting sqared, uniform final strips without having to walk thesplitsataslow pace. The need to straighten sweeps would still be there. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 5:57 PM: Chris,I was in a cane shop where strips were sawn instead of splitting,andthey way this gentleman did it, they were very straight right off thebandsaw. I think I understand what you are saying about indexing the sawcutoffof the strip, but look at this picture (url only, I didn't attach it sojustclick on it and it'll give you the pic)http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/crooked.jpg andyou'llseethat the top strip, the unstraightened one, has a very severe, veryfastcrook in it right at the node (and this is definitely NOT the mostseveresweep I have seen at a node). If you were to index, somehow, so thatyoucutthe strip along this line, then it would seem to me that it would takemuchlonger than splitting, and you would still have to straighten thestrip.Myunderstanding is that those who saw do so to drastically cut downthepreparation time of a strip for planing, or machine beveling, byeliminatingthe need to straighten.I think this picture also demonstrates how sawing straightthroughthissection would have definitely made a number of "cross cuts" to thepowerfibers.... and the only time I have ever seen sawn strips, that is howtheywere done, not following the grain, but using a "fence" of sorts, toinsureaccurate and repeatable cuts making strips that did not have to bestraightened.I guess, what I fail to understand is, if you are going to saw, thepurpose is to save time, by not having to straighten the strips. Ifyouindex, then you are not sawing straight strips, you are sawing stripsthatwould look just like splits and would not eliminate ANY labor or timeatall. Matter of fact, it would seem to me, that sawing, especially iftryingto "follow the grain" or follow the split, would take much longer thanjustsplitting the culm, and you would still have to straighten.Also, if you look at the lower strip in the picture, it is a handsplit,straightened strip out of the same culm. The only differencebetweenthisand the only sawn strips I have ever seen is that this one maintainedtheintegrity of the power fibers and the sawn strips did not.If I'm still missing the point, tell me... I am just confused as towhyanyone would want to saw, IF they were going to go to the time andtrouble tofollow the grain. Splitting is EASY in comparason to trying to cutalongthegrain. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Following the grain I see what you're saying. However, are sawn strips as straight asyousayonce they are separated from the main body? Also, a lot of thosesweepingbends are due to a twisting action rather then a direct side to sideaction.If the culm was initially split in half, and thus the grain isfollowedtothat point as I said previously, or if it were split further intoquarters orsixths, then the grain has been followed up to that point. Sawing3/16"strips away from a previous line of split would be following thegrain.Ithink the significant grain runoff I've seen on some sawn out rodswasmoredue to sawing from the start and not doing the initial splitting to the twist in the culm and then following the split line. Just myopinion. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Bob Nunley" , on 1/6/00 1:11 PM: Christopher,The way I see it (just my opinion) is that in hand splitting, whenastrip starts to get to narrow, or too wide, we manipulate the stripbybending to "re-direct" the split and correct the width of the piece.Actually, in my thinking, this much more closely follows the grainofthecane than sawing does. When you correct a split, many times youareonlycorrecting by 2, 3 or 4 fiber's width. Now, when that strip is splitandready to bevel, look down it and you can plainly see that the striphassweeps and bends in it, following the general grain of the bamboo.Just notstraightened. When I measured how much "sweep" there was in thestrip,itwas close to an inch from a line from end to end of one side of thestrip.A big sweep to be straightened, but nontheless, generally followingthegrain.Now, take a look at a sawn strip. Sure, it is perfectly straight,oralmost, but if you will scrape the enamel off of a sawn strip, youcanseethat it was sawn across what would have been the drastic sweepsin thestrip, therefore making it impossible to come even close to having astraight line of fibers down the entire length of the strip. In somecases,I could imagine strips with so drastic a sweep that it might nothavebutvery few continuous fibers even from Node to Node.Granted, there will be exceptions where the grain of the culmwasstraight enough that you would get a decent amount of power fibersnotonly from node to node, but along the complete length of the strip, but Ifeelthat this would be the exception, rather than the rule.My conclusion, splitting retains a much greater amount ofcontinuousfiber than sawing, and it is even possible that, in some extremecases,sawing strips could eliminate continuous lines of power fibers evenbetweenthe nodes. Splitting will not do this. With splitting, for thegreatestpart, you are maintaing the same line of fibers from node to node. Bob-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:35 PMSubject: Following the grain This is a new subject, and I'm not referring to Richard's postregardingSeanMoran's method because that was a great explanation of how tohandsplit aculm. But....... aren'twedoing the same thing a saw blade would do. When people think ofsplittingasopposed to sawing it's easy to think that splitting follows thegrainandsawing can cut accross grain, therefore splitting is superior forcontinuityof grain. Yet we talk of guiding the split in the way we want it togo(downthe middle or parallel with the alternate edge) by alternatingpressureetc. We talked about this before, but if we split a culm in half in orderto sawtofinish the process and get very nice square strips. I know "we"coulddowhatever "we" wants, but I see a lot of reference to hand splittingasifitis superior to sawing and it doesn't make sense to me. Sawingwouldreduceuseable bamboo due to the kerf as someone said before, but theamountwastedwith a bandsaw blade seems insignificant. Chris from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jan 10 10:59:23 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wustl.edu; Subject: RE: Pictures of original classic rods Brian, It would be very easy... you could make a deal with the AFFM (American FlyFishing Museum) in Vermont and photograph all their rods... about 1,200according to their estimates... I was fortunate/unfortunate to be allowedtogo upstairs to the look at the bulk of their collection... the unfortunatepart was I didn't have 6 months to look at every rod and I was extremelydehydrated from the experience from all my drooling... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Pictures of original classic rods I'd like to volunteer to run around the world and take tohose picture.MaybeI can get a gov'ment grant. Just send your donations to "Send Brian to takethe Pictures." BrianRodMakers, I've been watching this thread with interest. This HAS been one of mywishes for some time. Being a 'customer', not yet a cane maker, I've beenslowly educating myself on cane, old and contemporary. It WOULD bedelightful to go to a site (or book), use the index and find images of canerods. There are more of you out there than you probably realize that AREcollectors, or know collectors. Without giving name, street address,cityof where the collections are housed, I suppose you all could get quite arepository of images built up over the next several years ! All a matterof first finding the webspace, then getting the word out, and handlingthelogistics of said endeavor *G*. When you are off and running and have posted the initial post to theRodMakers, asking for input, several of us will cross-post to theflyfishing website venues for you and get even more images ! Good luck ! Great idea. And certainly cheaper than someone flying aroundthe country and world to take firsthand snapshots *G* of the cane.Publishing a book would be expensive ! suecolorado from jmb@shentel.net Mon Jan 10 11:24:54 2000 Subject: unsubscribe Dear sirs: Please take me off your email list effectiv immediately. Thank you. Sincerely,John Blouinjmb@shentel.net from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 10 13:44:33 2000 Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:44:28 -0800 Subject: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from piscator@crosswinds.net Mon Jan 10 14:08:34 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: (no subject) Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 10 15:43:26 2000 Subject: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jan 10 16:16:54 2000 17:16:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Hi, The first thing you want to do is seal the ends of the logs to preventchecking. I'vedone this on Cherry and Apple with Titebond II. Forget having a sawmill cut it. As a rule they won't take anything fromsomeonesyard due to things that may be in the wood. I'ld take a chain saw and roughcutslabs that a bandsaw can manage. Using the Bandsaw cut billets that canbeturnedinto fillers. I got 300bd-ft of cherry and 150bd-ft of Apple when Hurricane Bob camethroughMA in 1991. I found someone with a ripsaw(tm) which is a portablebandsawpowered with a chainsaw head. I wish I could justify one of those. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan 10 16:17:03 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: lathe Hi all:If I go with a Sherline lathe, can I get away with the 4000, or do I want the 4000A package?I just want to turn stations, grips, and make reel seats and some bands for them. No ferrules, unless that is not as hard as I guessThanks in advance, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from thardy@foxinternet.net Mon Jan 10 17:34:55 2000 mailsite.foxinternet.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.5) with ESMTP idfor;Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:33:33 -0800 Subject: Snake guides Is anyone in the Northwest currently putting together alarge order for those new Snake brand guides? If so Iwould like to participateThanks,Tom Hardy. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 10 19:00:39 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:00:32 -0800 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: (no subject) Brian With the new host for Rodmakers we do not have to worry aboutstorage orspeed of access - it is on a brand new state-of-art hosting complex. Giventhat, lets seewhat we can do tobring it to its knees. If you and others are willing to help with the work and provide input,then I canprovide a filter for thedata, QC format, and upload to the site. It is putting the data together thatwill reallytake time. We canget that template done and provide to anyone who wants to contribute tothe effort. Onceunderwaywe can have the contribution template downloadable from the web site. I have high speed access to the internet so the size of files are not aproblem up the site regularly. The more people that help the better the product wewill have foreveryone's use. I think this with other material about "classic" and "not-so-classic"rods isimportantto capture while some of the information is still available. The same goeswith otherbits of rodmaking history - pictures of magazine ads, tools, makers, etc. It wouldbe great tohavethis encyclopedia of history readily available to everyone online. Thiswould be animportant newdirection to Rodmakers to follow since there is a lot of interest in thisarea. Plus asthey say,"a picture is worth a thousand words." I request that people send the best quality pictures possible - do nottry andedit or downsizethe pictures themselves - I have all the programs for image manipulation,imagereduction, and image compression that will store the best picture at the lowest file size. I can convert just about anyfile formatto a common standard forposting. Raw scanned files (tiff format) are just fine and I can go fromthere. So Brian send me a strawman template of what you had in mind andwe can go fromthere. I am sure Jerrycan find room for another Icon on the Main page for "Classic Rods andRodmaking Info" orsomething like that.Pages will flow from that. We can develop a main page for this area andbreak it downinto various categories of information. We can link pictures to tapers when appropriate. Questions? Comments? Chris On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:52:03 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jan 10 21:05:55 2000 Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:05:32 +0800 Subject: Re: (no subject) "RODMAKERS" ,"Jerry Foster" The other thing we could do is this:Everybody keeps their own pic on their own SP's server and the centralaccess point only has the links to everybody's sites. These links would beindexed for easy access but everybody just clicks on the links and go tothe actual site with the pics.This way everybody makes use of the free space they have and there is noneed for gazillions of megs of space in a central point. This is really themain advantage of the web because it unifies all these little bits of datarather than having to collect everything at one place. This would mean individuals would have to maintain the links at thecentralpoint or somebody does it after being alerted to new or altered links justlike any other home page. Tony At 08:01 PM 1/10/00 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote:Brian With the new host for Rodmakers we do not have to worry aboutstorage orspeed of access - it is on a brand new state-of-art hosting complex.Giventhat, lets see what we can do tobring it to its knees. If you and others are willing to help with the work and provide input,then I can provide a filter for thedata, QC format, and upload to the site. It is putting the data togetherthat will really take time. We canget that template done and provide to anyone who wants to contribute tothe effort. Once underwaywe can have the contribution template downloadable from the web site. I have high speed access to the internet so the size of files are not aproblem for me. I back up the site regularly. The more people that help the better the product wewill have for everyone's use. I think this with other material about "classic" and "not-so-classic"rods is importantto capture while some of the information is still available. The samegoeswith other bits of rodmaking history - pictures of magazine ads, tools, makers, etc. Itwouldbe great to havethis encyclopedia of history readily available to everyone online. Thiswould be an important newdirection to Rodmakers to follow since there is a lot of interest in thisarea. Plus as they say,"a picture is worth a thousand words." I request that people send the best quality pictures possible - do nottry and edit or downsizethe pictures themselves - I have all the programs for imagemanipulation,image reduction, and image compression that will store the best picture at the lowest file size. I can convert just aboutany file format to a common standard forposting. Raw scanned files (tiff format) are just fine and I can go fromthere. So Brian send me a strawman template of what you had in mind andwe cango from there. I am sure Jerrycan find room for another Icon on the Main page for "Classic Rods andRodmaking Info" or something like that.Pages will flow from that. We can develop a main page for this area andbreak it down into various categories of information. We can link pictures to tapers when appropriate. Questions? Comments? Chris On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:52:03 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jan 10 21:09:03 2000 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers In a message dated 01/10/2000 4:45:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Harry,I cut a lot of wood for reel seats myself. You can eithercut it into "slabs" or into approx. 1x1x5 pieces. If you cut itinto slabs, you must wax the end grain, to keep it from splitting,as it dries out. If you cut it into reel seat size pieces, I usuallywax the whole piece. I buy "canning" wax at the grocery store.It is wax in small slabs around 1x3x5 in approx. I hold the waxwith a pair of pliers and heat it with a propane torch. Let the waxgo all over the wood. Leave a small amount without wax, not onthe end grain side, but on one of the other sides. This will allowthe wood to dry very slowly. I let it dry for six months to a year,before I use it. Dave L. from amcsmith@nlis.net Mon Jan 10 21:18:20 2000 0500 Subject: photo archives chris b,you and jerry rule !!!!chris smith from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 10 21:41:04 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:41:21 -0600 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: (no subject) This sounds really neat Chris ! I'll try sending a shot or two, and you letme know what they come in like. Having a variety of so many differentrods,all on one site, will make it really easy to build a volume of what reallyrare pieces look like. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: (no subject) Brian With the new host for Rodmakers we do not have to worry about storageorspeed of access - it is on a brand new state-of-art hosting complex.Giventhat, lets see what we can do tobring it to its knees. If you and others are willing to help with the work and provide input,then I can provide a filter for thedata, QC format, and upload to the site. It is putting the data togetherthat will really take time. We canget that template done and provide to anyone who wants to contribute tothe effort. Once underwaywe can have the contribution template downloadable from the web site. I have high speed access to the internet so the size of files are not aproblem for me. I backup the site regularly. The more people that help the better the productwewill have for everyone's use. I think this with other material about "classic" and "not-so-classic" rodsis importantto capture while some of the information is still available. The samegoeswith other bits ofrodmaking history - pictures of magazine ads, tools, makers, etc. Itwouldbe great to havethis encyclopedia of history readily available to everyone online. Thiswould be an important newdirection to Rodmakers to follow since there is a lot of interest in thisarea. Plus as they say,"a picture is worth a thousand words." I request that people send the best quality pictures possible - do not tryand edit or downsizethe pictures themselves - I have all the programs for imagemanipulation,image reduction, and image compression that willstore the best picture at the lowest file size. I can convert just aboutany file format to a common standard forposting. Raw scanned files (tiff format) are just fine and I can go fromthere. So Brian send me a strawman template of what you had in mind and wecan go from there. I am sure Jerrycan find room for another Icon on the Main page for "Classic Rods andRodmaking Info" or something like that.Pages will flow from that. We can develop a main page for this area andbreak it down into various categories ofinformation. We can link pictures to tapers when appropriate. Questions? Comments? Chris On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:52:03 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: Chris - Rodmakers is certainly the best place for this thing to live, but Ididn't want to volunteer work for Jerry. (Was waiting for him tovolunteer himself!) I'd still be happy to design the page format andsend that along. If we have a form that we can just plugpix and textinto it would be easier to create records and review them. Brian from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 10 21:56:11 2000 Subject: Swelled butt rods I heard that it is possible to make swelled butt rods in normal planingforms. Is this true? If so how does one go about this. What problems canyou expect . And ,does anyone have any appropriate tapers? T& T or anyothers would be nice! Shawn from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jan 11 00:14:39 2000 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers I pretty much agree with Dave's recommendations. When I wax the endgrain, Ipre-heat the wood a bit with my heat gun and dip the end grain into meltedwax in order to get a better seal. Some people paint the melted wax on tothe wood with an old cheap brush. If the wax looks white and flaky after ithardens than you have not gotten a good seal. The wax should looktranslucent. Be careful about melting paraffin, it becomes quiteflammablewhen hot. Better if you don't use an open flame when melting.Steve Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from chris@artistree.com Tue Jan 11 01:00:39 2000 [205.134.244.79] (may beforged)) Subject: [Fwd:renward rod 1000] Claus Jensen wrote: HELLO! My name is claus jensen from denmark,i had got an old splitcanebamboo rod with the name on (the renward rod 1000). do you have anyinformation on this rod,how old? where its from etc. best regardsclaus jensenmy email: cj.vraa@mail.tele.dk from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 11 01:09:52 2000 Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:09:31 +0800 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Also, keep the wood off a surface by placing it on "stickers" which in thiscase don't need to be any more than chopsticks. That way the piece willdryevenly all round and you'll have less warpage. Tony At 11:15 PM 1/10/00 -0700, Steven Weiss wrote:I pretty much agree with Dave's recommendations. When I wax the endgrain, Ipre-heat the wood a bit with my heat gun and dip the end grain intomeltedwax in order to get a better seal. Some people paint the melted wax on tothe wood with an old cheap brush. If the wax looks white and flaky afterithardens than you have not gotten a good seal. The wax should looktranslucent. Be careful about melting paraffin, it becomes quiteflammablewhen hot. Better if you don't use an open flame when melting.Steve Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Jan 11 06:28:46 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Stabilizing Wood Harry, Cut it into sections that are 50% longer than your finished product will be.Paint the ends with a good oil based product, date it, store it on its endand forget it. Six months to two years depending on species and moisturecontent. You could weigh the individual pieces if you wish to monitor theprocess. Another procedure that I had some success with when I was turning items,wasworking with green wood and not turning it to finished dimensions butleaving it maybe 10 to 15 percent larger. The process involved saving theshavings from the turning process and when you get the item to the statewhere you want to dry it, put it in a box encapsulated in the shavings. Letit dry in this manner and the shavings will slow the drying process enoughto keep the item stable. Any movement in the item will be corrected withthe turning to final dimensions. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 11 07:26:19 2000 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers Thanks for all the replies, folks. Looks like I've got some good ideas.I've got one more question: The sections are approx 3 feet across, and 6-8inches thick. I just asked the tree cutters to give me a section of thetrunk from the crotch.Do you have any suggestions on exactly how to cut the wood intosectionsin order to maximize the good looking grain? Someone suggested having alocalfurniture maker do so. But local furniture makers around here use old milkcrates or buy their stuff at Walmart. North Louisiana is not a hotbed forfinewoodworking! Harry from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Jan 11 09:19:51 2000 Subject: Re: Stabilizing Wood Go to www.woodcraft.com, Use their search and enter Pentacryl.Works exactly like the description says it does, dries out greenwood 90% quicker, and lubricates your turning tools when youdo start working the wood. Good stuff!Darryl from harry37@epix.net Tue Jan 11 09:55:43 2000Received: from KAA03134 Subject: Re: Hardwood for reel seat fillers from my old candle making days, I recall that the best ans safest way toheat the parrafin was to use an old saucepan as a double-boiler in alarger saucepan full of boiling water. The parrafin's a relativelylow-temp wax, and you won't have to worry about lighting it up. Greg Steven Weiss wrote: I pretty much agree with Dave's recommendations. When I wax the endgrain, Ipre-heat the wood a bit with my heat gun and dip the end grain intomeltedwax in order to get a better seal. Some people paint the melted wax on tothe wood with an old cheap brush. If the wax looks white and flaky afterithardens than you have not gotten a good seal. The wax should looktranslucent. Be careful about melting paraffin, it becomes quiteflammablewhen hot. Better if you don't use an open flame when melting.Steve Tried this a few hours ago, and never saw it come through. Sorry ifthis is a repeat Friends,Last week I had three trees, 2 pecan and 1 oak, cut in ouryard. I saved some sections of crotch wood that I think havepossibilities for making reel seat blanks. My trouble is, I have no end product that will be worthwhile.Might you be able to give me any tips, or point me in adirection that might help? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jan 11 10:32:08 2000 8:38:12 PST Subject: re: Swelled butt rods Hi Shawn, Many of the standard planing forms have bolts at 2 1/2" increments alongthe lower area of the butt side of the forms. This allows you to open thegroove more at this area because you have more bolts to stress the steel. So in a about a 5" range before the cork nose area of the strips you can flare itout as much as possible to get the largest diameter over the shortest distance possible without stripping the threads. That being said, I don't think you will be able to get the dramatic swell such as that on a T&T rod. The pictures I have seen of T&T's with this swell shows a rod that has a very quick increase over maybe a 1 1/2"-2" space right before the cork. I hadan early Montague Flipline rod with a dramatic swell like this, and since the T&T rods are made with the same equipment that the old Montague's weremade from (I think that's right), maybe it was the same machine or process? If you want this feature in your rods there are swelled butt forms beingmade that have the swell cut into the forms. Otherwise, the 2 1/2" boltincrement on standard forms will allow you to increase the butt diameter to a degree that may meet your definition of a swell. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- I heard that it is possible to make swelled butt rods in normal planingforms. Is this true? If so how does one go about this. What problems canyou expect . And ,does anyone have any appropriate tapers? T& T or anyothers would be nice! Shawn from jczimny@dol.net Tue Jan 11 14:54:55 2000 Subject: Re: Swelled butt rods It certainly was the same process. The mill has a cam arm that lowers thepattern John Z CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Hi Shawn, Many of the standard planing forms have bolts at 2 1/2" incrementsalong thelower area of the butt side of the forms. This allows you to open thegroovemore at this area because you have more bolts to stress the steel. So inaabout a 5" range before the cork nose area of the strips you can flare itoutas much as possible to get the largest diameter over the shortestdistancepossible without stripping the threads. That being said, I don't think youwill be able to get the dramatic swell such as that on a T&T rod. Thepictures I have seen of T&T's with this swell shows a rod that has a veryquick increase over maybe a 1 1/2"-2" space right before the cork. I hadanearly Montague Flipline rod with a dramatic swell like this, and sincetheT&T rods are made with the same equipment that the old Montague'swere made from (I think that's right), maybe it was the same machine or process? Ifyou want this feature in your rods there are swelled butt forms beingmadethat have the swell cut into the forms. Otherwise, the 2 1/2" boltincrementon standard forms will allow you to increase the butt diameter to adegreethat may meet your definition of a swell. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Shawn Pineo" , on 1/10/00 8:06 PM: I heard that it is possible to make swelled butt rods in normal planingforms. Is this true? If so how does one go about this. What problems canyou expect . And ,does anyone have any appropriate tapers? T& T or anyothers would be nice! Shawn from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 11 18:15:01 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:14:53 -0800 "sue kreutzer" Subject: Re: definition of 'classic rods' to be included ? Sue Trying to separate classic from contemporary is easy -are they alive or dead! Sounds kind of cold, but how else can youdo it? Now, there will be no value judgements on quality of work forthe former - just gathering information that may get and is getting lost inthe sands of time. Chris On Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:46:37 -0700, sue kreutzer wrote: good morning gentlemen, from colorado. I'm doing my best to follow the posts re the exciting project (make thatbehemoth project) that some of you are undertaking. I'm on the sidelinescheering you on. Critical IMNSHO to get the images somewhere, alongwiththe documentation, and even, as someone suggested, tools, workshopimages.Trust me on this one, Ackland's sarcasm notwithstanding (or was thathumor? *G*), YOU will be glad you did. Let me take that thought and ask a question that others have probablyasked, but I didn't see the answers. What is going to be the definition of what is classic and qualifies for thepage ? Age ? Anything 25 or 30 years and older ? I believe in theantique's fields, that IS the criteria. Then too, I could see aClassic and Contemporary section. Just thinking out loud.Personally think the RodM. homepage IS the place to locate your project.Eboard.com will be gone in a year, other folks websites may be too. Verychanging this Net. suecolorado from tragich23@juno.com Tue Jan 11 18:26:52 2000 "n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGN6dwlYzETpzQiDtkP8+jaVk1BmBElbqTg==" 19:26:44 EST Subject: varnish Anyone on the list know if McClosky varnish has a web site? Or P&l? TIAai from tragich23@juno.com Tue Jan 11 18:30:41 2000 "n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGN6dwlYzETpzSEZAd2ACcUOA7vuwS/32ew==" 19:30:33 EST Subject: agate strippers is there anyone on the list willing to give info on how to fabricateagate strippers? TIAai from tragich23@juno.com Tue Jan 11 19:11:14 2000 "n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGN6dwlYzETpzBDEW6p4oyqacfXk4zkZPpw==" 20:10:48 EST Subject: TEST SLOW TODAY? from sats@gte.net Tue Jan 11 20:27:04 2000 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if anyonecan tell metheir experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing stories about brokensectionsbecause the shorter ferrules are attached to a smaller length of cane.Therefore I boughtstandard size ferrules for the 3 piece travel rod that I need for a trip outwest. Allcomments welcome. Ed Miller. I don't believe that the amount of bamboo covered by the ferrules is theproblem. I'd guess they were too small or not fitted right. I've had a fewrods break at the ferrule and it was always the fact that I'd done a poorjob ofsize selection or application. I really believe truncated ferrules are better for three piece rods. Rememberthe area covered by a ferrule doesn't flex like the rest of the bamboo. Ithardly flexes at all. There for you're removing an extra two inches or soofflex from the rod if you use regular ferrules. You lose less flex with thetruncated ferrules. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jan 11 20:29:02 2000 Subject: test test from jourdoktorn@chello.se Wed Jan 12 00:32:30 2000 (InterMail v4.01.00 201-232-112) with ESMTP +0100 Subject: Test! Testing, am I heard or thrown out from the list? from rvenneri@ulster.net Wed Jan 12 04:00:40 2000 0500 Subject: test from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Jan 12 05:58:04 2000 EAA03483 Subject: setting planing forms Hi, When setting the planing forms how much do you add to account for theenamelthat will be taken off? Paul from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 12 07:53:10 2000 Subject: PHY Perfectionist With all these awesome photos floating around I was hoping someone hassome good ones of a Paul H. Young Perfectionist I could see before Ifinish my rod. Aoriginal, unrestored rod would be the ideal! ANYONE???? T.I.A, Shawn from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Jan 12 08:05:22 2000 GAA03807 ESMTP forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:05:06 -0800 (5.5.2448.0) is the list down or just slow Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jan 12 08:40:41 2000 0000 Subject: Photos I am still overwhelmed by the response to the rod photo idea. I amfirmly in favor, but need to do some thinking be back at you Chris etal. from jgm56@gateway.net Wed Jan 12 10:48:51 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840 test ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840 test ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5CF3.1CA44840-- from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Wed Jan 12 12:08:08 2000 Subject: Test from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Wed Jan 12 12:11:00 2000 2000 10:10:56 PST Subject: test test__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from drossiter@uswest.net Wed Jan 12 16:16:54 2000 Subject: Dickerson taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700 I have considered building a rod to Dickerson's 8013 taper. However, I =noticed that the taper for this rod that is posted on the Rodmakers =website shows an increase of .026" from the 45" station to the 50" =station. (Diameter is reported as .189" at the 45" point, and .215" at =the 50" point.) The joint would fall between these two points. .026" =seems to me to be a very great increase over just 5 inches. I looked up the tapers for Dickerson's 8014 and 8015 rods. 8014 had an =increase of .015" between the same points, significantly less than the =8013. The even heavier 8015 rod had an increase of just .014 between the=same points. I also looked up several other listed tapers for Garrison, Cattenach and =Orvis 8' rods. None had more than .015" increase from point 45 to point =50. Is there something screwy here, or am I missing something? Thanks for any help, David ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700 I have considered building a rod to Dickerson's 8013= the Rodmakers website shows an increase of .026" from the 45" station to= me to be a very great increase over just 5 inches. I looked up the tapers for Dickerson's 8014 and 8015= less than the 8013. The even heavier 8015 rod had an increase of just = between the same points. I also looked up several other listed tapers for = 45 to point 50. something? Thanks for any help, David ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BF5D10.8B3AA700-- from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 12 16:46:20 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3FD17B0394; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:45:17 -0500 Subject: Test from frankc@webspan.net Wed Jan 12 17:04:09 2000 Subject: join boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0 subscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0 subscribe rodmakers frank =caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D27.0E7ACDA0-- from martinjensen@home.com Wed Jan 12 17:50:28 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP 0800 Subject: test please delete Martin Jensen from yves@dancris.com Wed Jan 12 18:18:24 2000 Subject: e-mail test Test - list down again? Dave La Touche from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Jan 12 18:49:34 2000 Subject: testing Hi, messages have been slow and are now non-existant. Paul from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Jan 12 19:23:54 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: test/no msg from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan 12 20:27:20 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Setting a digital indicator I recently purchased a digital Mitutoyo indicator to set my forms. Howdoesone go about setting this indicator to a known setting? Specifically, Ihave a calibration bar that I'd like to use to set the indicator to .107.If I place the indicator point in the hole of the calibration bar and turnthe unit on, it registers zero. Thanks in advance, Richard Nantel from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed Jan 12 20:50:15 2000 0000 (207.103.93.59) Subject: Check up Just checking to see if I've been bumped off. Its lonesome in this dustyshop..... from trippma@mindspring.com Wed Jan 12 21:35:59 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580 Slow list? or is it down? Just testing. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580 testing. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D33.EA025580-- from seanmcs@ar.com.au Wed Jan 12 23:18:43 2000 Subject: List Is the list down. from frankc@webspan.net Thu Jan 13 05:21:28 2000 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20 unsubscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20 unsubscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF5D8E.0F8CFB20-- from frankc@webspan.net Thu Jan 13 05:22:18 2000 Subject: join boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40 subscribe rodmakers frank caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40 subscribe rodmakers frank =caruso ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF5D8E.2E191C40-- from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jan 13 06:35:03 2000 Subject: Re: (no subject) In a message dated 1/10/00 7:11:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Makes a lot of sense, except that the links would need to be updated each time someone's ISP changes. Don Burns from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Thu Jan 13 07:29:41 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:29:35 EST Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Can anyone enlighten me on the status of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. Itook out a subscription later part of last year and had a sinkingfeeling I was missing an issue. When I checked the published date theywere for 1998. Anyone got the scoop on this magazine. I like the contentand hope it doesn't go belly up. Jim Tefft from Ed_Dickson@bc.sympatico.ca Thu Jan 13 08:16:23 2000 Subject: subscribe Ed Dickson from TBUTLER@HEWM.COM Thu Jan 13 09:38:17 2000 [206.189.208.11] (may be forged)) ; Thu, 13 (WorldSecureServer SMTP Relay(WSS) v3.6.2); Thu, 13 Jan 00 07:36:30 - 0800 ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:37:51 -0800 Subject: List I have stopped receiving mail. Did I get unsubscribed? ________________________________________________Tim ButlerHeller Ehrman White & McAuliffe Fax: (206) 447-0849E-mail: tbutler@hewm.comWeb: http://www.hewm.comThe information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictlyprohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message inerror, please e-mail the sender at tbutler@hewm.com. from rafick@fwi.com Thu Jan 13 11:11:29 2000 0000 Subject: test R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from seanmcs@ar.com.au Thu Jan 13 16:01:19 2000 Subject: Rodmakers list Hello. I received nothing for two days and yesterday unsubscribed andimmediately subscribed again. As I had an acknowledgement ofunsubscribing but not of subscribing, this morning our time I justsuscribed again. Please look and see I am not duplicated for messages,which are still absent, I note. Thanks. Sean from lars32@gateway.net Thu Jan 13 16:48:43 2000 Subject: Snake Brand Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0 Just received a shipment of guides from Mike McCoy at Snake Brand =Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give them a try since there =have been rave notices about them. The snake guides and the tip top =guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop and wire Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0 Just received a shipment ofguides = McCoy at Snake Brand Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give = since there have been rave notices about them. The snake guides and the = guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop and = Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF5DE6.7BA782A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 13 17:04:54 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:05:20 -0600 Subject: Re: List When I opened up at about 5:00 this afternoon, I had 37 messages. Mostwerewondering if the list was down again. I suspect there's allot of curlslaying on the floors of shops today ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: List I have stopped receiving mail. Did I get unsubscribed? ________________________________________________Tim ButlerHeller Ehrman White & McAuliffe Fax: (206) 447-0849E-mail: tbutler@hewm.comWeb: http://www.hewm.comThe information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictlyprohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message inerror, please e-mail the sender at tbutler@hewm.com. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 13 17:18:57 2000 Subject: Re: Dickerson taper In a message dated 1/13/0 10:36:30 PM, drossiter@uswest.net writes: David - It is a big jump, and I can't speak for the accuracy of the taper, but the few Dickerson's I have seen do have a big increase in the middle, helped along by a step down ferrule which accounts for .0156 of theincrease. from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan 13 17:22:04 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:19:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Snake Brand Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080 Dave,Ditto on the Snake Brand guides. Got a shipment in last week and =love em. I haven't tried the tip tops, but do have one of the agate =strippers... Excellent also. Guess I'll have to try the tip tops, too. = Bob-----Original Message-----From: lars32 Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 4:53 PMSubject: Snake Brand Guides Just received a shipment of guides from Mike McCoy at Snake Brand =Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give them a try since there =have been rave notices about them. The snake guides and the tip top =guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop and wire Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080 Dave, haven't tried the tip tops, but do have one of the agate strippers... = Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, January 13, 2000 4:53 PMSubject: Snake = GuidesJust received a shipment of = McCoy at Snake Brand Guides. (No Interest etc.) Thought I would give = try since there have been rave notices about them. The snake guides = tip top guides are SUPERB !Finally a tip guide with appropriate size loop = ------=_NextPart_000_01E8_01BF5DEA.7C653080-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 13 17:30:50 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:31:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I sent them $17 just before Christmas, ordering the other 2 issues. So farall I have received is an invitation to subscribe again ! I did subscribeover the net, so I may still owe them for a years subscription. But, as Ipointed out, I want the back issues I paid for first ! My only issue to date, is dated Sept./Dec. 1998 ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Can anyone enlighten me on the status of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. Itook out a subscription later part of last year and had a sinkingfeeling I was missing an issue. When I checked the published date theywere for 1998. Anyone got the scoop on this magazine. I like the contentand hope it doesn't go belly up. Jim Tefft from thardy@foxinternet.net Thu Jan 13 17:40:54 2000 mailsite.foxinternet.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.5) with ESMTP idfor;Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:39:32 -0800 Subject: Snake brand guides Is anyone in the Northwest putting together an order enough order to qualify for the 40% discount. Reply offlist?Thanks,Tom Hardy, (Seattle)thardy@foxinternet.net from jhewitt@cmn.net Thu Jan 13 17:58:22 2000 Subject: Re: Snake brand guides Tom,I'm not the one putting together the order, but I certainly wouldbe interested in taking part.John thardy wrote: Is anyone in the Northwest putting together an order enough order to qualify for the 40% discount. Reply offlist?Thanks,Tom Hardy, (Seattle)thardy@foxinternet.net from landeens@home.com Thu Jan 13 18:05:43 2000 with SMTP ;Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:05:39 -0800 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules I posed the same question on the board 3-4 months ago and most buildersrecommended staying away from the truncated ferrules unless they werejustused on the tip section. I have built 4 3pc rods using standard ferrules andhave been pleased with the result and the casting actions.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: truncated ferrules New question. I'm planning a three piece rod and I'm wondering if anyonecan tell me their experience with truncated ferrules. I'm hearing storiesabout broken sections because the shorter ferrules are attached to asmallerlength of cane. Therefore I bought standard size ferrules for the 3 piecetravel rod that I need for a trip out west. All comments welcome. EdMiller. I don't believe that the amount of bamboo covered by the ferrules is theproblem. I'd guess they were too small or not fitted right. I've had afewrods break at the ferrule and it was always the fact that I'd done a poorjob ofsize selection or application. I really believe truncated ferrules are better for three piece rods.Rememberthe area covered by a ferrule doesn't flex like the rest of the bamboo.Ithardly flexes at all. There for you're removing an extra two inches orso offlex from the rod if you use regular ferrules. You lose less flex withthetruncated ferrules. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 13 18:25:18 2000 Subject: Sad how very sad that so many rely on a large fix of daily bullshit from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 13 18:34:07 2000 Subject: Re: Setting a digital indicator Richard,if there are no buttons to do this you will have to work from zero beingthetop of your forms.Send the bloody thing back and get a $16 Chinese dial indicator, mine isverygood.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: I recently purchased a digital Mitutoyo indicator to set my forms. Howdoesone go about setting this indicator to a known setting? Specifically, Ihave a calibration bar that I'd like to use to set the indicator to .107.If I place the indicator point in the hole of the calibration bar and turnthe unit on, it registers zero. Thanks in advance, Richard Nantel from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jan 13 18:46:38 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A37787F00EA; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:53:11 -0500 Subject: Besides pictures... All,There are many sources of information on cane rods that might be ofvalue to the community. I'm using my new scanner and sending rodmakersads (Thomas, Edwards, S.B., etc.) from magazines of the 30's-60's toChris Bogart. Chris will then index them on his (or Jerry's) website.But this is just a beginning. Many articles about/ from the old makerscan be put on the web, or the cane rod column that Garrison edited inRod&Reel...If anyone has valuable archaic material scanned, Chris couldprobably integrate it into h