Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: Friday, January 21, = PM Subject: = produced excellent work. To many their work is more than a = = ______________________________________________________= Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com = ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF6582.3B852A80-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 09:16:58 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:16:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread Lars,And this is real "glace cotton thread"? What 3 sizes do they have andwhat is their ph# / address / website / email if you have it? That soundsvery reasonable if it is the real thing. Thanks ,Shawn lars32 wrote: I dont know where you buy your thread but I get mine from an industrialsewing machine supply place in Mineapolis. The three sizes recommendedbyCattanach come in large cones and cost 5 or 6 bucks. I don't know howmuchthread is on each but they look like there is enough thread on the toreachthe moon. It looks like I might have a lifetime supply.-----Original Message-----From: Shawn Pineo Date: Saturday, January 22, 2000 8:42 PMSubject: Glace cotton thread Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 aspoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochet string What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 09:25:47 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates In addition to some very valuable info I have gotten from Terry --------Hemakes me smile. I'll bet our comments to him make him smile as well. Iwonder if sometimes we take ourselves too seriously?----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Time estimates Dave,ok you are a rodmaker, if you make your own cloth sacks you could alsocallyourself aseamstress!Terry Dave Price wrote: Terence I build bamboo rods from scratch, there for I'm a rodmaker. I donot sell them, I'm not a professional rodmaker. Hand planing rods withthe accuracy of +- less than a mill at each station and ending up with agood finished product is what all the fun is in this pastime. If I had arod that was pumped through a machine I think I would opt for plastic.Save you're pissing contests for George :-). Dave TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: He was a Railroad Engineer and an amateur rodmaker. Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -Terry wrote: A rodmaker to me a person that can make living making and sellingrods withoutincomes from other sources. So Garrison wasn't a rodmaker? regards,Carsten from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 09:25:47 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: Terry A. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF6580.47051D40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF6580.47051D40 H.L. Menchen said "Self respect is the secure feeling that as of yet no =one has found out!"Terry you have found us out. You know that we take ourselves too =seriously and it makes you smile. And now I have found you out, you =are smiling aren't you Terry?Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF6580.47051D40 H.L. Menchen said "Selfrespect = secure feeling that as of yet no one has found out!"Terry you have found us out. You = = found you out, you are smiling aren't you Terry?Dave =N. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF6580.47051D40-- from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 09:25:50 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: Test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF6580.9DADDE20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF6580.9DADDE20 Test ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF6580.9DADDE20 Test ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF6580.9DADDE20-- from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 09:25:51 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Time Estimates In addition to some very valuable info I have gotten from Terry.-------Hemakes me smile. I'll bet we make him smile with our comments also. Iwonderif sometimes we take ourselves too seriously!----- Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Time Estimates John , I understand your reaction to Terry . I sent him a rather similar noteabout18 months ago after a similar sort of statement by him. However.. I have learnt to understand Terry's somewhat blunt north English humour(my wife comes from Yorkshire so maybe it is easier for me ) and havebenefited from some really great rodbuilding advise from him on anumber ofoccasions. He holds his views very strongly , and expresses them bluntly ,but I have learnt to gradually started to appreciate Terry as a rathervaluable member of the list even if he does upset a lot of people whohavenot become accustomed to his manner. I suppose I am saying try not to get too upset by Terry , one day he willprobably be of a great help to you on some rodmaking matter regards Ian Kearney At 10:37 AM 22/01/00 -0700, John Hewitt wrote:Mr. Ackland,Your recent posts to this list have degenerated to namecalling. I for one am insulted. If you want to call me a jerk, fine, butpleaseinclude something beneficial to rodmaking as well. If that's not possibleIwould encourage you remove yourself from this "Rodmakers" list.I know that you have much to contribute to the subject of rodmaking,and Iam interested in everything everyone (including yourself) has to sayregardingrodmaking. However I am not interested in your personal opinions ofpeople.Please keep those opinions to yourself, and lets return to rodmaking.Thanks,John TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did not getmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 09:35:34 2000 Subject: David LeClair boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF6585.B21157C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF6585.B21157C0 In addition to the help he has freely given in the past, he has now =demonstrated a good deal of honesty. He probably could have gotten all =Ray Brgmans stuff for a hundred bucks.Instead he chose to help a =neigbor. Whata guy!Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF6585.B21157C0 In addition to the help he has = the past, he has now demonstrated a good deal of honesty. He probably = gotten all Ray Brgmans stuff for a hundred bucks.Instead he chose to = neigbor. Whata guy!DaveN. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF6585.B21157C0-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 23 09:42:21 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread I bought some nylon embroidery thread from Joanne Fabrics last week. It worked so much better than my $18 spool from a reputable rod makingsupply, and it does not break when put through the Bellinger Binder. I got virtually straight tips in 5 minutes or less! Usually I roll strips for 45 minutes!You shouldn't use nylon for heat treating, but I also got glace cotton there that seemed comparable in weight. Both spools cost $1.98. I bought white for flamed rods, and red for blond rods. It is easier on my eyes to see in that contrast.The people there had no idea what 16/4 and 24/4 was. I just guessed/Bob Maulucci At 08:09 AM 1/23/00 -0500, you wrote:I just glued my first rod, so take this for what it's worth. I ordered glace cotton thread the first week of december and am still waiting.... but that's another thread (pun intended). Yesterday went to walmart and found white embroidery yarn for $3.27US/400 yards. Worked fine, but I can't compare it to the glace cotton 'cause I've never even seen it. You have to spool it yourself, no big deal. The crochet thread isn't nearly as strong, I could easily break it by pulling it. Not so the embroidery yarn. At 09:35 PM 1/22/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Shawn,The glace cotton I buy comes in 4800 yard spools for $26, so thatbreaksdown to about a half a cent a yard... pretty cheap, actually, and it is timetested and proven, and not something that would either enhance ordegradethe performance or characteristics of a rod. I don't know how long thespools of crochet thread are, but they would have to be at least 500yardsto make it comparable in cost to the glace cotton. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Shawn Pineo Date: Saturday, January 22, 2000 8:41 PMSubject: Glace cotton thread Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 aspoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochetstring What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Jan 23 09:44:34 2000 "Kling, Barry W." "''RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu ' '" Subject: RE: Time Estimates Absolutely. Even I once thought of fly rods as trivial items lurking in mygarage. Now I view them as a sort of jewelry for my soul, which badlyneedswhatever decoration I can supply. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Time Estimates This is the problem, no one else understands the importance of our work.Mywife and family take no interest except for constantly remarking on themess.Norm Abrahams on the New Yankie workshop is my wife's hero, he makebeautifulstuff in a half hour or multiples thereof and never makes a mess! Kling, Barry W. wrote: One of the main reasons I like you guys is the comparisons made to VanGoghetc. My other friends talk about me mainly in terms of Curly or Moe. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: 1/21/00 10:56 PMSubject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did notgetmuchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethanaconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan 23 09:46:08 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:45:50 +0800 Subject: Re: David LeClair types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_29781730==_.ALT" --=====================_29781730==_.ALT I thought the same thing when I read it.Good on ya Dave. Tony At 09:39 AM 1/23/00 -0600, lars32 wrote: In addition to the help he has freely given in the past, he has nowdemonstrated a good deal of honesty. He probably could have gotten allRayBrgmans stuff for a hundred bucks.Instead he chose to help a neigbor.Whataguy!Dave N. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_29781730==_.ALT I thought the same thing when I read it.Good on ya Dave. Tony At 09:39 AM 1/23/00 -0600, lars32 wrote: In addition to the help he hasfreely given in the past, he has now demonstrated a good deal of honesty.He probably could have gotten all Ray Brgmans stuff for a hundredbucks.Instead he chose to help a neigbor. Whata guy!Dave N. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_29781730==_.ALT-- from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Jan 23 09:57:12 2000 0000 Subject: Re: Sv: Sir D D - and includes a photo of the car that influenced it.http://www.wcattanachrodco.com/gallery/jordan.htm Wayne from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Jan 23 10:21:38 2000 Subject: Re: Drying cabinet temperatures boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BF6583.45B6EB00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BF6583.45B6EB00 In my reading, I've garnered the impression that 70 - 80 degrees is =about right for drying varnish, and that temps above that level - 80 to =100 degrees - is too high and can cause a "soft" finish and maybe even =lamination problems. As I'm not using poly, I don't have a clue there. =However, most of the bandwidth on cabinets has temps up at 100 degrees= ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BF6583.45B6EB00 All, In my reading, I've garnered the = - 80 degrees is about right for drying varnish, and that temps above = even lamination problems. As I'm not using poly, I don't have a clue = However, most of the bandwidth on cabinets has temps up at 100 degrees= Comments please - what's the opinion on drying temps. Thanks, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BF6583.45B6EB00-- from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 23 10:33:13 2000 Subject: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane Bill H and others had heaped deserved praise on this List : watching the list most of my questions are answered at about the time they arise. This is a great resourceand an inspriration. Thanks all. The 'inspiration' part is the key for some of us. Oh sure, we're planningto build a cane rod someday, we're just not there yet. Other timecommitments. But it's there, in the back of the mind, pushed forward asweread the posts on RodMakers List. Every time I want to relegate the ideaof building a cane to the back, --- because of RodMakers, it pops rightback into gear, like that old Jeep I ran into the ground *G* To the point kreutzer, to the point ! Unless you've got the equipment, or watched another builder build, orbetter still have stepped out and tried some of the processes, I knownaught of what you speak. Never inclined to even build a graphite rod andnever will. If there is rod building to be done, it WILL be a cane. Ineed not explain to some of you. Given that strong statement then, I havenever done any rodassemblage, no wrapping, no epoxy, no heat this orthat... and quite frankly ? not interested in doing that with graphite.If I'm going to build cane, good or bad, I want it to be virgin territority. What kinds of pre-steps, exercises could I take ? Limbering up as it were*G* There is a Germanic undertone here. We just don't jump in and 'doit', we think about it, plan it out, even prepare. Years in advance. One of the RodM. members wrote me recently not too long ago re this, but Ilost the post. His advice on pre-preparing was for me to get the hang of'cutting' 'shaving' 'planing' . Any material, just get into it. But what? Plane the soap bar ? Plane soft wood ? With what tools ? Are wetalking a good knife and whittling ? I'm at least 9 months away from starting the process. Practice what then?The answer for me here is not to do the whole project. Not possible rightnow. I could of course buy the culm, astound the family when it arrivesand we figure out WHERE to put it. I look at it religiously every day.mmmmmmm so ? *VBG*suecoloado from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Jan 23 10:39:20 2000 Subject: Re: drying cabinets Bob, My cabinet is 10 inches by 7 inches by 6 feet with a wooden door. I use a95 watt light bulb as the heat source. It keeps the temperature at 100degrees F. Mark Cole from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan 23 10:50:36 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A0F963CE0148; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:48:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Drying cabinet temperatures Jim,I haven't measured mine in quite awhile so my recollection is rathervague. But I'm sure it was over 100 (F), though not much over, and I'venever had a problem with varnish.Art At 09:21 AM 01/23/2000 -0600, Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote:All, can cause a "soft" finish and maybe even lamination problems.As I'm not using poly, I don't have a clue there. However, most of thebandwidth on cabinets has temps up at 100 degrees or so. Commentsplease -what's the opinion on drying temps. Thanks, Jim from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 10:53:01 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:52:27 -0400 Subject: Re: David LeClair boundary="------------E697FEEAD075B33A0845C66F" --------------E697FEEAD075B33A0845C66F Diddo, nuff said!!,Shawn Tony Young wrote: I thought the same thing when I read it.Good on ya Dave. Tony At 09:39 AM 1/23/00 -0600, lars32 wrote: In addition to the help he has freely given in the past, he has nowdemonstrated a good deal of honesty. He probably could have gottenall Ray Brgmans stuff for a hundred bucks.Instead he chose to help aneigbor. Whata guy!Dave N. /** **********************************************************************/AVYoungVisit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlAndthis our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, booksin running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.WilliamShakespeare, As You Like It /************* ***********************************************************/ --------------E697FEEAD075B33A0845C66F Diddo, nuff said!!, ShawnTony Young wrote: Good on ya Dave.TonyAt 09:39 AM 1/23/00 -0600, lars32 wrote:In addition to the help he hasfreely given in the past, he has now demonstrated a good deal of honesty.He probably could have gotten all Ray Brgmans stuff for a hundredbucks.Insteadhe chose to help a neigbor. Whata guy!Dave N. YoungVisit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlAndthis our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books inrunning brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.William /*************************************************************************/ --------------E697FEEAD075B33A0845C66F-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 23 11:01:11 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: drying cabinets thanks and dip vs. drip Thanks everyone. I made a crude setup with a cardboard rod tube shipping box,d a clip on lamp, plastic sheet door, and a 60 watt bulb. Dried a freshly dipped section just great. I will turn these ideas into wood today. Thanks. One neat thing I picked up at the Home Depot yesterday while getting insulation for my dip tube was an indoor /outdoor thermometer. I nailed it to the bench and dropped the probe into the varnish and heated (ribbon heater) it to 95* Then I dipped and retracted (fishing reel and string for now). I got the best sections yet. I have forgone the drip tube for now because I can dip and retract up to 7'6" rods in two sections. My cellar is too cold for leaving sections inside a drip tube to dry, and it takes 3 days for it to set. Pulling them out and putting them into the cabinet worked a lot better. and I can now do multiple sections. Also, the drip tubes constant fill and refill routine introduces dust, no matter how well you try to filter it. It just isn't right for me right now. I guess my 8' Guide Special will have to be a 3 piecer! Thanks everyone,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 23 11:01:32 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:02:02 -0600 Subject: Re: drying cabinets About varnish drying, and penetration. from past experiences in using epoxy resins, and finishes, I know you getbetter penetration if the subject is warmed first. As in heating the wood,when glue is applied. When spraying, you get better flow, if the tank is setin warm water, a few minutes before starting to spray. The thing you don't want to do, is to get the products so hot that theybubble. With true varnishes, I would think in temperature below thebubblingstage, would help in penetration, as well as drying. The problem here, isknowing what's warm enough ! Comments anyone ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: drying cabinets Bob, My cabinet is 10 inches by 7 inches by 6 feet with a wooden door. I use a95watt light bulb as the heat source. It keeps the temperature at 100degreesF. Mark Cole from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 23 11:04:05 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: sue Hi Sue:Why not build a bamboo blank? It is much easier than graphite to finishout in my opinion. I am sure someone on this list can make you one with ferrules fitted. This way, you can pick from a classic taper and it will be cheaper, more fun, and more yours than any 9' production rod that $250brings.Keep us posted,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Jan 23 11:13:18 2000 "'RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane Sue -- Here are a couple of thoughts from a guy who is making his 5th rod. I don't think you need to practice guide wrapping in advance. It's not likeglueing, where you need to get it right the first time. Might as wellpractice on your first bamboo blank as on a graphite you don't really want. I have found that there are many items which, while rightly appreciated byrodmakers, are in no way necessary for the first few rods. Since theaccumulation of these items seems to delay a lot of people, I think that'sgood news. Among these items are a rod binder (you can readily bind asection by hand -- and you can practice this with 6 strips without anyglueto get the hang of it, just make sure the thread is wrapped in spirals upand then back down the rod, with spirals spaced about 3/8" apart, and withfirm tension all the way), heat gun (my wife's blow dryer has done the jobso far, though I use it only to straighten glued sections since I buildnodeless), rod dipping aparatus and drying box (a brush is OK until youbecome a rod perfectionist), a rod wrapping rig (Cabelas has a nice littlethread tensioning device for about $10, but when wrapping I usually justsiton the couch, put the spool of thread on the cushion to my side, and run thethread under a thigh and then to the rod. This provides adequate tensionandcontrol. Garrison did it this way.) If you make nodeless rods you don't needa bamboo oven, you can use the one in the kitchen. Glueing on the grip and reel seat is nothing special. Just keep an eye on ituntil it's set so you can wipe off any glue that seeps out anywhere. The only unusual skill in rod making, besides wrapping is planing. So getyourself a plane. You don't need a special blade at first, though a Hockblade or two is necessary to keep me from going nuts when I'm planingrealstrips. But the regular blade is fine to practice, just keep it sharp. I had very little experience with planes before, though I was familiar withsimple woodworking. Bamboo is very different from wood, and for me thebestway to learn was to buy a culm of bamboo and fool around with it. Iordered from Golden Witch (goldenwitch.com), which provides practice-gradeculms fora reasonable price. They come cut in two -- two 6 foot pieces. Since I'mmaking nodeless rods I got out a saw I had laying around (a hacksaw withmedium blade will do fine) and sawed them into sections, leaving out thenodes. Then I could practice splitting and planing to my heart's content. Toget the feel of a form, I took 2 boards 1" by 2" thick and 3 feet long. Withthe plane I sliced off about 1/4" of an edge on each piece. I used a rig tomake it a 60 degree angle, but for practice it needn't be exact. Then Iglued the pieces together so that the bevelled edges met. This served as aplaning practice form. Of course you could be more exact and make a roughplaning form you'll actually use later, which is great. But if you just wantto play with some bamboo you can make a practice form like this in halfanhour and get down to serious playing. Hope this isn't more than you bargained for.... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane Bill H and others had heaped deserved praise on this List : watching the list most of my questions are answered at about the time they arise. This is a great resourceand an inspriration. Thanks all. The 'inspiration' part is the key for some of us. Oh sure, we'replanningto build a cane rod someday, we're just not there yet. Other timecommitments. But it's there, in the back of the mind, pushed forward asweread the posts on RodMakers List. Every time I want to relegate the of building a cane to the back, --- because of RodMakers, it pops rightback into gear, like that old Jeep I ran into the ground *G* To the point kreutzer, to the point ! Unless you've got the equipment, or watched another builder build, orbetter still have stepped out and tried some of the processes, I knownaught of what you speak. Never inclined to even build a graphite rodandnever will. If there is rod building to be done, it WILL be a cane.Ineed not explain to some of you. Given that strong statement then, Ihavenever done any rodassemblage, no wrapping, no epoxy, no heat this orthat... and quite frankly ? not interested in doing that withgraphite.If I'm going to build cane, good or bad, I want it to be virginterritority. What kinds of pre-steps, exercises could I take ? Limbering up as itwere*G* There is a Germanic undertone here. We just don't jump in and'doit', we think about it, plan it out, even prepare. Years in advance. One of the RodM. members wrote me recently not too long ago re this, butIlost the post. His advice on pre-preparing was for me to get the hangof'cutting' 'shaving' 'planing' . Any material, just get into it. Butwhat? Plane the soap bar ? Plane soft wood ? With what tools ? Are wetalking a good knife and whittling ? I'm at least 9 months away from starting the process. Practice whatthen ?The answer for me here is not to do the whole project. Not possiblerightnow. I could of course buy the culm, astound the family when itarrivesand we figure out WHERE to put it. I look at it religiously every day.mmmmmmm so ? *VBG*suecoloado from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 11:14:17 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:13:44 -0400 Subject: Re: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane Sue ,Tool: Practice with a very sharp(practice that too!) block planeMaterial: get some scraps of bamboo from a rodmaker in your areamaybeone of those non nodeless types,we always have lots of scraps.If you can'tfindscraps let me know and I will send you some.They are good to get the feel.Info: here is a good start,any of the fine books/videos avail., ThePlaning Form newsletter (Ron Barch: one h### of a nice guy and veryhelpfulrodbuilder),and any piece of info you can find,oh and National Geographic,October 1980 has a very good article on bamboo and Hoagy Carmichael; ifyoudon't have it let me know, I have a bunch of copies , I pick up copieswheneverI see them to give to bamboobuddies(new and old).Don't be discouraged by all the fancy equipment and stuff ,this can beassimple or complex as you want it to be! Allot of the tools can be made forlittle or no cost and some elbow grease! Get at it!! :-)At your service, ShawnP.S. Have I talked online to you before? Perhaps FFOL? Name soundsfamiliar,that's all. sue kreutzer wrote: Bill H and others had heaped deserved praise on this List : watching the list most of my questions are answeredat about the time they arise. This is a great resourceand an inspriration. Thanks all. The 'inspiration' part is the key for some of us. Oh sure, we're planningto build a cane rod someday, we're just not there yet. Other timecommitments. But it's there, in the back of the mind, pushed forward asweread the posts on RodMakers List. Every time I want to relegate the ideaof building a cane to the back, --- because of RodMakers, it pops rightback into gear, like that old Jeep I ran into the ground *G* To the point kreutzer, to the point ! Unless you've got the equipment, or watched another builder build, orbetter still have stepped out and tried some of the processes, I knownaught of what you speak. Never inclined to even build a graphite rod andnever will. If there is rod building to be done, it WILL be a cane. Ineed not explain to some of you. Given that strong statement then, Ihavenever done any rodassemblage, no wrapping, no epoxy, no heat this orthat... and quite frankly ? not interested in doing that with graphite.If I'm going to build cane, good or bad, I want it to be virgin territority. What kinds of pre-steps, exercises could I take ? Limbering up as itwere*G* There is a Germanic undertone here. We just don't jump in and 'doit', we think about it, plan it out, even prepare. Years in advance. One of the RodM. members wrote me recently not too long ago re this, butIlost the post. His advice on pre-preparing was for me to get the hang of'cutting' 'shaving' 'planing' . Any material, just get into it. But what? Plane the soap bar ? Plane soft wood ? With what tools ? Are wetalking a good knife and whittling ? I'm at least 9 months away from starting the process. Practice whatthen ?The answer for me here is not to do the whole project. Not possiblerightnow. I could of course buy the culm, astound the family when it arrivesand we figure out WHERE to put it. I look at it religiously every day.mmmmmmm so ? *VBG*suecoloado from giel@earthlink.net Sun Jan 23 11:15:29 2000 Subject: Re:Trouble getting digest I get the digest form of this group and about 20% of the time, it onlyloads about 78% or less, of the message. I do not have this problemwith any other group/digest and many have messages much larger thanRodmakers, so I doubt it is at my end. When I try to reload the message, it does the same thing again ending atthe same point every time for any given digest. Is anybody else havingthis same problem? Any sensible suggestions on what to do? I hate tomiss any of the great information you folks offer, and I have missedmany wonderful items that were listed in the index (table of contents)at the beginningof the digest, but not in the digest as recieved. Is there an archive of past digests? Thanks,Bob from FlyfishT@aol.com Sun Jan 23 11:22:39 2000 Subject: Dickerson 4th rod To all, Thanks for your responses. I'm starting the fourth rod, making the Dickerson7012 again. I like that taper. I wanted to say after I bind my rod, take it out of the string and sand the rod, I put tongue oil on it temporarily. I like to dip the rod later after the guides are on. So now on my fourth rod, I guess I will keep it in a tube with dessicant to avoid moisture build up and then dip it once with the urethane, then mount the guides and proceed to dip later. I have the butt section glued. It was made from a tiger flamed culm, although some of you have said that i shouldalso heat treat it at 375? Will the butt section be alright? I did it before I knew that additional heat treatment should be done. I'm working on the tip section. I did heat treat those yesterday (strips, not beveled splines). I could only get my heat oven up to 300 degrees F. So I baked it for 15 minutes. I made the heat oven from The Best of the Planing Form Book. I can only reach a max of 300 degrees. Anybody know whatinsulationcould be put on the stove pipe to increase the temperature withoutcausing the insulation to burn? I assume that pink insulation will burn. Thanks Tom N. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 23 11:48:14 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates/STOP THE BS Guys,Why is it every couple of months we have to go through this Bulls--t of an argument on the list. If you don't have anything constructive to say about rod building here leave it off the list. If you want to tell someone thnks tell them and them only don't post it to the list. I don't give a damn if you are happy that I or anyone else has helped you with a question enoughto have it posted to the list. How old are most of you guys anyway? I amsure that you are old enough to be considered adults. Lets act that way andkeep everything off here that is not relavent to the making of rods. I swear it is like being around a bunch of little kids sometimes. Don't bother to answer to this post because I don't care if I have pissed some of you off because you need to be chastised for your actions. The next person whoputs a thank you post here or a flame to someone else should be slapped.BRET ( tired of the BS) from lblove@cableone.net Sun Jan 23 12:03:59 2000 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:03:54 -0700 Subject: re-heat treat boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF6599.A7517B80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF6599.A7517B80 Yesterday I tried my heat gun oven for the first time. The results =were not to great. The test pieces went fine, but the first rod section =came out only half baked. The top half looks great but the lower =half(vertical oven) does not appear to have changed color.Could I reheat treat the section after I correct the oven problem or =should I scrap it out and start over(the rod section that is)?? Also =has anybody tried a hybrid oven with a heat gun and a mica strip =element?? TIA ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF6599.A7517B80 have changed color.Could I reheat treat the section after I correct the = problem or should I scrap it out and start over(the rod section that = element?? TIABradley Love ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF6599.A7517B80-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Jan 23 12:04:16 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Time Estimates I like the guy who uses all the hand tools, is covered with shavings andshakes hands with his dog.Ernie This is the problem, no one else understands the importance of our work.Mywife and family take no interest except for constantly remarking on themess.Norm Abrahams on the New Yankie workshop is my wife's hero, he makebeautifulstuff in a half hour or multiples thereof and never makes a mess! from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jan 23 12:05:35 2000 with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.0.0.0l.R) Subject: Bamboo Rodmakers Database Program v1.75RC1 Howdy folks: As some of you are aware, a few months back I started to develop aprogramto store tapers, rod record information, client information, etc. Thisprogram was designed to not compete with Wayne's program or Frank's. Itisdesigned to compliment them, and will in future versions hopefully be ableto interact with them. After many weeks of testing and development, and with the help of thebetateam and friends like Chris Bogart, I am offering the program up for aPublic Beta Test prior to the General Release. If you would like todownload and test this program prior to the General Release you may doso.Just point your web browser to http://www.direct-pest.com/brmdpdownload thezip file to your download directory on your hard drive. from there you canunzip the file and it will create a program called brmdp.exe. This is thesetup program. Before you run the setup program email me directly atjcbyrd@direct-pest.com and I will email you the password to unlock theprogram. I also ask that if you do download the program to test that you join ourmailing list. All you have to do is sen an email to TipTop@direct- pest.comand you will be automatically subscribed. You do not have to placeanythingin the Subject or Message Body areas of your email. All correspondence for the software will be handled through our mailinglistand not rodmakers because I don't want to tie up their bandwidth. Thanks Joe Byrd from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 23 12:09:55 2000 Subject: RE: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane - find yourself a good used old Stanley or Record at a yard sale for $5.00 - When you get it home - clean it up and true the bottom and If it does not have a good blade - get the replacement and Above all practice sharpening the blade until you can do it quickly and easily - this will save you hours in class. I knew there would be a quick consensus. Got several thatsuggested this. For some of us that have NO (repeat NO)experience in hands-on workshop stuff, this is what I was looking for. Talk in about a month after I've got this progressing nicely, (thanks ! arrrrgggh, bite your tongue kreutzer !)suecolorado from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Jan 23 12:11:00 2000 Subject: Polyurethane impregnation Here is the results of my experiments so far. I cut a 3 inch section of a raw strip, a roughed outstrip and a 3 inch section of a blank trimming. Put themall under polyurethane varnish and pulled a vacuumon them until they stopped producing bubbles - whichwas 20 minutes for the blank section. Released thevacuum and let it sit for an hour, then pulled the vacuum in my drying cabinet for most of last week. Cut them allin half to see if the varnish went all the way through. Itdid in all cases. So, what did I hope to learn from this? I wanted to seeat which point it would be the best to do the impregnation.Before planing, after roughing, or on a blank. I think workflow wise and what I'm used to doing, impregnating a blankis the way to go. Today I will impregnate a raw strip a couple feet long, and strips. Darryl from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Jan 23 12:25:21 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Time Estimates/STOP THE BS Thank you for sharing. -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Time Estimates/STOP THE BS Guys,Why is it every couple of months we have to go through thisBulls--t of an argument on the list. If you don't have anythingconstructive to say about rod building here leave it off the list. If you want totell someone thnks tell them and them only don't post it to the list. I don'tgive a damn if you are happy that I or anyone else has helped you with aquestion enough to have it posted to the list. How old are most of you guysanyway? I am sure that you are old enough to be considered adults. Lets actthat way and keep everything off here that is not relavent to the making ofrods. I swear it is like being around a bunch of little kids sometimes.Don't bother to answer to this post because I don't care if I have pissedsome of you off because you need to be chastised for your actions. The nextperson who puts a thank you post here or a flame to someone else should beslapped.BRET ( tired of the BS) from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 23 12:29:02 2000 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod Pink insulation will not burn.There was a misprint or mistake in Garrison's book regarding heattreatment timesthat somehow managed to find its way onto other knockoffs.6 minutes @ 375deg will not remove the moisture from a damp dollar billlet alonetip sections. 60 minutes would be about right. FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: To all, Thanks for your responses. I'm starting the fourth rod, making theDickerson7012 again. I like that taper. I wanted to say after I bind myrod,take it out of the string and sand the rod, I put tongue oil on ittemporarily. I like to dip the rod later after the guides are on. So now onmy fourth rod, I guess I will keep it in a tube with dessicant to avoidmoisture build up and then dip it once with the urethane, then mount theguides and proceed to dip later. I have the butt section glued. It wasmade from a tiger flamed culm, although some of you have said that i shouldalsoheat treat it at 375? Will the butt section be alright? I did it before Iknew that additional heat treatment should be done. I'm working on the tip section. I did heat treat those yesterday (strips,notbeveled splines). I could only get my heat oven up to 300 degrees F. So Ibaked it for 15 minutes. I made the heat oven from The Best of thePlaningForm Book. I can only reach a max of 300 degrees. Anybody know whatinsulationcould be put on the stove pipe to increase the temperature withoutcausingthe insulation to burn? I assume that pink insulation will burn. Thanks Tom N. from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 23 12:45:18 2000 Subject: Re: re-heat treat 86D333645F7F4113531CE46D" --------------86D333645F7F4113531CE46D turn the rod at the halfway stage in the heating cycle (end to end, notaround) Bradley Love wrote: Hello everybody, Yesterday I tried my heat gun oven for the firsttime. The results were not to great. The test pieces went fine, butthe first rod section came out only half baked. The top half looksgreat but the lower half(vertical oven) does not appear to havechanged color.Could I reheat treat the section after I correct theoven problem or should I scrap it out and start over(the rod sectionthat is)?? Also has anybody tried a hybrid oven with a heat gun and amica strip element?? TIABradley Love --------------86D333645F7F4113531CE46D turn the rod at the halfway stage in the heating cycle (end to end, notaround) Bradley Love wrote: section half(vertical oven) does not appear to have changed color.CouldI reheat treat the section after I correct the oven problem or should I anybodytried a hybrid oven with a heat gun and a mica strip --------------86D333645F7F4113531CE46D-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 23 12:46:29 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane Hi Sue I read Your posting, and let me be frank with You: There is one thing You need in order to build a rod.It is free, it is invaluable and absolutely necessary. It is called DETERMINATION. If You have got it, You will make a rod, no problems.If You aint, noway are You gonna make a rod. Forget warm up exercises, expensive gear etc. Look into Yourselfand decide if You've got the dertermination to make a rod NOW. If not, forget it - no warming up or whatever stuff is gonna help Yougetting started. If You have got it, Your first rod is built already, justa question of time. That is the way, I see it. How about You? regardsCarsten from brookie@frii.com Sun Jan 23 13:11:19 2000 Subject: Re: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane C : There is one thing You need in order to build a rod.It is free, it is invaluable and absolutely necessary. It is called DETERMINATION. If You have got it, You will make a rod, no problems.If You aint, noway are You gonna make a rod. got it C, or wouldn't be on the RodM. list this long, wouldn't be askingstupid questions now and again and gearing up to turn the switch ! *VBG*Aside from the Determination though, one needs to collect tools, thinkabout pre- exercises. (sexist mode on), I for one as a girlchild have noaptitude nor experience with workshop tools. A Stanley ? I have no ideawhat this is. Will I ? You betcha *G*. Determination is what I havealot of. Wouldn't have become the flyfisher I am without that. so, step one is done.Mr. Stanley is #2.Some of us have to go through this inane simplistic way of doing it. suecolorado from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 23 13:13:21 2000 caneman@clink.comSubject: Re: Time Estimates the wearing of black leather garments has been adopted by a certainminorityand I am sure that in selected bars "Pinky Nunley" would never have to buyhis own beer!Terry Dennis Haftel wrote: Hey Bob, How about Pinky Nunley? It's got a certain ring to it. I'd bet if youembroidered that on your leathers you'd get some stares... LOL! Dennis Bob Nunley wrote: Terry,Geez, thanks for the idea! You know, I never really consideredthe relationship before, but I was a luthier (coincidentally, Ispecialized in making violins *S*) long before I started making canerods (hesitate to call myself a rodmaker because even though this ismy sole "job", I do have my Air Force retirement also, so not sure ifthat falls under the definition of being a REAL rodmaker or not). Ialways worried that the name NUNLEY might not have that certain ringto it that names like Garrison, Payne, Young, etc have! Maybe I'llcheck into what it would involve to change it... hmmmm what could wetryAntonio Stradinunlius?Robert Antonio?Bobby Strad?how about we just leave Antonio Stradivarius completely out ofthis and try...Francesco Andreas Gillum Stainer, rodmakerthat would cover Francesco Rugerri, Andreas Guarnerius andJacob Stainer, three pretty fair fiddle builders (dont know if youcould call them violin makers or not, because none of them did it fulltime as a living, even though their instruments are among the finest)and Pinky Gillum, a great rodmaker... Hmmmm that may be the name I gofor... or do you think that would be a little to presumptious of me...yeah probably so... better leave the Gillum out of it and just use theother three names. Wouldn't want people to think I was calling myselfa "real" rodmaker...Oh, yeah, when this cold front moves out, I think I'll take myHarley out and drop my leathers off at the embroidery shop and have myroad name "Griz" taken off of it and put "Caneman" in place of it too,and underneath that... "Also has an Air Force retirement income!"I think I got it covered now... I can compare myself to greatcraftsmen of the past, yet still put that little disclaimer mentioningthe USAF retirement income, so nobody will mistake me for a "real"rodmaker. Tight lines,F. A. Stainer (aka Bob)-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: Re: Time Estimates Since I have been on this list you jerks have compared yourselves toStradivarius and now Van Gough .....ok David Kasha wrote: Terry- The Van Gough reference was regarding work for pay. He did notget muchpay but still produced excellent work. To many their work is morethan aconsumer product.Enough already.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 23 13:41:54 2000 Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread When I first started rodmaking with the Garrson book I searched to findeverything that he recommended, now after over 15 years there is verylittleI do the same as him.The thread you mention is perfect and will cause less twisting of the tipsections because the spool is very light.Terry Shawn Pineo wrote: Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 a spoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochet string What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Jan 23 13:50:52 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation Darryl,One of the old rod making companies used a gas preservative toimpregnatetheir rods which penetrated the wood and crystallized. I don't remembertoomuch about it, except there was controversy over the additional weight itadded. Have you checked the weight your process is going to add to therod?Ernie -----Original Message----- Subject: Polyurethane impregnation Here is the results of my experiments so far.I cut a 3 inch section of a raw strip, a roughed outstrip and a 3 inch section of a blank trimming. Put themall under polyurethane varnish and pulled a vacuumon them until they stopped producing bubbles - whichwas 20 minutes for the blank section. Released thevacuum and let it sit for an hour, then pulled the vacuum in my drying cabinet for most of last week. Cut them allin half to see if the varnish went all the way through. Itdid in all cases. So, what did I hope to learn from this? I wanted to seeat which point it would be the best to do the impregnation.Before planing, after roughing, or on a blank. I think workflow wise and what I'm used to doing, impregnating a blankis the way to go. Today I will impregnate a raw strip a couple feet long, and strips. Darryl from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun Jan 23 14:00:29 2000 Subject: message for Tom Chandler Tom lost your email address ect please mail me again .Gary Lohkamp from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 23 14:56:46 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:47:17 -0600 Subject: Re: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane There's quite a bit on sharpening the blades on the hock web site too ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: WarmUp Exercises to Building Cane - find yourself a good used old Stanley or Record at a yard sale for $5.00 - When you get it home - clean it up and true the bottom and If it does not have a good blade - get the replacement and Above all practice sharpening the blade until you can do it quickly and easily - this will save you hours in class. I knew there would be a quick consensus. Got several thatsuggested this. For some of us that have NO (repeat NO)experience in hands-on workshop stuff, this is what I was looking for. Talk in about a month after I've got this progressing nicely, (thanks ! arrrrgggh, bite your tongue kreutzer !)suecolorado from joninc@nac.net Sun Jan 23 15:18:05 2000 Subject: RE: Time Estimates/STOP THE BS A hundred times - THANK YOU for your bulls*it post, Bret! John F. Incantalupo "Shall I go to Heaven or go a-fishing..."-Henry David Thoreau from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan 23 16:30:45 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A0BF640390; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:29:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod Tom,I don't know if it'll be enough to raise your temp sufficiently, but Iwrapped the outside of mine with the fiberglass batting you lay inbetweenyour rafters and it did the trick. You can get that stuff up to prettylarge R-numbers. Makes the outside look REAL ugly, but, hey we're alreadyblind to some of our faults, right? *G*Art ArtAt 12:22 PM 01/23/2000 EST, FlyfishT@aol.com wrote:To all, Thanks for your responses. I'm starting the fourth rod, making the Dickerson7012 again. I like that taper. I wanted to say after I bind myrod, take it out of the string and sand the rod, I put tongue oil on it temporarily. I like to dip the rod later after the guides are on. So now on my fourth rod, I guess I will keep it in a tube with dessicant to avoid moisture build up and then dip it once with the urethane, then mount the guides and proceed to dip later. I have the butt section glued. It was made from a tiger flamed culm, although some of you have said that i shouldalso heat treat it at 375? Will the butt section be alright? I did it before I knew that additional heat treatment should be done. I'm working on the tip section. I did heat treat those yesterday (strips,not beveled splines). I could only get my heat oven up to 300 degrees F. So I baked it for 15 minutes. I made the heat oven from The Best of thePlaning Form Book. I can only reach a max of 300 degrees. Anybody know whatinsulationcould be put on the stove pipe to increase the temperature withoutcausing the insulation to burn? I assume that pink insulation will burn. Thanks Tom N. from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Jan 23 16:38:28 2000 don") Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:37:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Wet Strip Stuart, John Bokstrom of Vancouver, BC was the first to come up with soaking thecane prior to planning/straightening. He's done it for years. I and a bunchof others use the technique. Tom Morgan, if i recall correctly, suggests it John did a bunch of research prior to committing himself to soaking thecane. I would imagine the reason that he did was because of the perversivebelief that cane had to be cured in a dry environment for many years. Thebelief was failure to keep cane dry caused permanent loss of bladdercontrol/a limp inch in the middle or some such thing.Like John says the first tool to get in rodmaking is a shovel for the BS. regards, Don At 08:15 PM 1/22/00 +0100, Gabriele Moultrie wrote:Hi I was reading through "The Planing Forms" latest issue and noticed areference to soaking strips prior to straightening. Can anyone enlightenme on this one? I also noticed a reference to pressed nodes somewhere onthe list but deleted it too quickly - bad move- and have been hoping tosee it rementioned over the last few weeks ... any ideas? As you may all realise the only book I've read yet is the "MastersGuide...." and I'm still waiting for the updated version of theCattanach book to be released, does he mention these two methods in hisbook? Thanks for any help that can be given Stuart Moultrie http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jan 23 16:49:12 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Polyurethane impregnation I suppose the blank was bone dry all through?As well imagine You used a standard 1 componentpoly varnish? how about the surfacefinish of the blank? Would it need additionaldipping, or is it OK? Could You describe the textureof it? As I use PVA glue, wonder if PU varnish would somehowweaken the glue. Got any ideas/theories? regards,Carsten from lars32@gateway.net Sun Jan 23 17:53:33 2000 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod I put a larger piece of stove pipe around the large one to make the outerskin double. I couln't get the heat on mine up either. The second piece ofpipe makes it work like a charm. I get the heat up in about 10 minutes andif I dont watch it it goes up past the 400 mark on my thermo.now you can even touch the outer layer without third dgree burns.-----Original Message----- Subject: Dickerson 4th rod To all, Thanks for your responses. I'm starting the fourth rod, making theDickerson7012 again. I like that taper. I wanted to say after I bind myrod,take it out of the string and sand the rod, I put tongue oil on ittemporarily. I like to dip the rod later after the guides are on. So now onmy fourth rod, I guess I will keep it in a tube with dessicant to avoidmoisture build up and then dip it once with the urethane, then mount theguides and proceed to dip later. I have the butt section glued. It was made from a tiger flamed culm, although some of you have said that i shouldalsoheat treat it at 375? Will the butt section be alright? I did it before Iknew that additional heat treatment should be done. I'm working on the tip section. I did heat treat those yesterday (strips,notbeveled splines). I could only get my heat oven up to 300 degrees F. So Ibaked it for 15 minutes. I made the heat oven from The Best of thePlaningForm Book. I can only reach a max of 300 degrees. Anybody know whatinsulationcould be put on the stove pipe to increase the temperature withoutcausingthe insulation to burn? I assume that pink insulation will burn. Thanks Tom N. from ctracy@ckan.com Sun Jan 23 18:29:17 2000 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:49:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod My oven is similar to lars. It is made up of two sections of round ductworkfive feet in length. One section is 6 inches in diameter, the other is fourinches in diameter. I riveted both section together and used a couple ofsix-inch caps to seal the ends. I doctored the top cap to allow the fourinch"pipe" to stick out to allow me to put in the splines for heat treating andalsoto be able to put a heat gun in. The oven levels out at about 360 degressafterabout 10 minutes on my heat gun's highest temperature setting. Thebiggestmistake I made was sealing the caps with regular duct tape. Needless tosay itmelted and smelled horribly. I've since scraped it off and have forgone anysealing with no ill effect. I thought about making an insulated box toencasethe oven, but it doesn't really need it. So I'll just leave it like it is. Allin all, I spent fourteen bucks to make it. Cheap at twice the price. lars32 wrote: I put a larger piece of stove pipe around the large one to make the outerskin double. I couln't get the heat on mine up either. The second piece ofpipe makes it work like a charm. I get the heat up in about 10 minutesandif I dont watch it it goes up past the 400 mark on my thermo.now you can even touch the outer layer without third dgree burns.-----Original Message-----From: FlyfishT@aol.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000 11:29 AMSubject: Dickerson 4th rod To all, Thanks for your responses. I'm starting the fourth rod, making theDickerson7012 again. I like that taper. I wanted to say after I bind myrod,take it out of the string and sand the rod, I put tongue oil on ittemporarily. I like to dip the rod later after the guides are on. So now onmy fourth rod, I guess I will keep it in a tube with dessicant to avoidmoisture build up and then dip it once with the urethane, then mount theguides and proceed to dip later. I have the butt section glued. It wasmade from a tiger flamed culm, although some of you have said that i shouldalsoheat treat it at 375? Will the butt section be alright? I did it before Iknew that additional heat treatment should be done. I'm working on the tip section. I did heat treat those yesterday (strips,notbeveled splines). I could only get my heat oven up to 300 degrees F. So Ibaked it for 15 minutes. I made the heat oven from The Best of thePlaningForm Book. I can only reach a max of 300 degrees. Anybody know whatinsulationcould be put on the stove pipe to increase the temperature withoutcausingthe insulation to burn? I assume that pink insulation will burn. Thanks Tom N. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jan 23 18:50:11 2000 Subject: Re: David LeClair In a message dated 01/23/2000 10:39:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, lars32@gateway.net writes: Thanks, DaveYou know, sometimes I find myself too honest. I loose a lot ofgood stuff like that. But, there is something inside me that won't let me be dishonest. I guess I pride myself in being a very honestperson. I guess I go by that saying, " do unto others, as you wouldhave them do unto you". and so on and so forth..... Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jan 23 18:55:26 2000 Subject: Re: David LeClair In a message dated 01/23/2000 10:52:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Thanks, Tony. Your all right. Dave from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 23 19:16:04 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:13:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod Same here, only I additionally stuffed fiberglass insulation between thetwopieces of stovepipe. Goes up to temp pretty fast (and beyond if you aren'tcareful) bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod I put a larger piece of stove pipe around the large one to make the outerskin double. I couln't get the heat on mine up either. The second piece ofpipe makes it work like a charm. I get the heat up in about 10 minutes andif I dont watch it it goes up past the 400 mark on my thermo.now you can even touch the outer layer without third dgree burns.-----Original Message-----From: FlyfishT@aol.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000 11:29 AMSubject: Dickerson 4th rod To all, Thanks for your responses. I'm starting the fourth rod, making theDickerson7012 again. I like that taper. I wanted to say after I bind myrod,take it out of the string and sand the rod, I put tongue oil on ittemporarily. I like to dip the rod later after the guides are on. So nowonmy fourth rod, I guess I will keep it in a tube with dessicant to avoidmoisture build up and then dip it once with the urethane, then mount theguides and proceed to dip later. I have the butt section glued. It wasmade from a tiger flamed culm, although some of you have said that i shouldalsoheat treat it at 375? Will the butt section be alright? I did it before Iknew that additional heat treatment should be done. I'm working on the tip section. I did heat treat those yesterday (strips,notbeveled splines). I could only get my heat oven up to 300 degrees F. So Ibaked it for 15 minutes. I made the heat oven from The Best of thePlaningForm Book. I can only reach a max of 300 degrees. Anybody know whatinsulationcould be put on the stove pipe to increase the temperature withoutcausingthe insulation to burn? I assume that pink insulation will burn. Thanks Tom N. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 19:56:11 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:55:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod I use the same upright oven and what I did is wrapped that silver bubblewrapinsulation on mine.Like the stuff you put around your hot water tank. Iwaskind of worried that the plastic bubbles between the foil would melt butitseems to work great! Way more appealing to the wife when you have theoven inthe kitchen than fiberglass pink! Also I used the foil tape to seal thebubblewrap. To bring the oven up to temp faster I have a little cap I put on. Myfirstheat gun wasn't putting out hot enough air to get high temps, so trydifferentheat guns.I've yet to try brown toning in this upright heat gun type oven so I donot know how that will work,ShawnP.S. All you beginners out there, this is a very cheap/easy way to getyourselfa stove! You need a heat gun anyway, right. Bob Nunley wrote: Same here, only I additionally stuffed fiberglass insulation between thetwopieces of from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 23 20:13:37 2000 Subject: Varnishing method I was wondering if any one out there dips their rod before installingthe grip, reelseat, ferrules and guides adding those later? Does thiswork? The reason I ask is I would like to build some rods in advanceand just have them ready to finish. Plus it seems that it would be a loteasier to get a good finish. Shawn from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 23 20:25:27 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: drying cabinet light bulb Does a coffee can over the light bulb serve any purpose other than keeping the bulb from being smashed by falling sections? Or does this producemore heat?This idea seems to come up a lot. Is it necessary?Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from brewer@teleport.com Sun Jan 23 20:28:26 2000 0000 (216.26.32.146) Subject: Re: drying cabinet light bulb It is very useful to keep dripping varnish out of the light bulb socket!!! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: drying cabinet light bulb Does a coffee can over the light bulb serve any purpose other thankeepingthe bulb from being smashed by falling sections? Or does this producemoreheat?This idea seems to come up a lot. Is it necessary?Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sun Jan 23 20:32:20 2000 Subject: drill rod / planing form After viewing Chris's article on calibration of depth gauges, I did thenecessary math to convince myself of the formula. I can see why thoselastcouple of thousandths were so hard to scrape from my strips. I amwondering how short a piece of drill rod is needed. It seems as though thelonger pieces like an actual drill would not set down in the groove at themeasuring station due to the taper. Would the numerical stampings andtheflutes of the bit make a difference? What is a source for plain drill rod? TIA,Dave from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Sun Jan 23 21:13:44 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:14:05 -0500 Subject: Re: re-heat treat boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF65ED.D3A195E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF65ED.D3A195E0 Just curious. I was wondering if anyone out there uses a black iron =pipe and propane torch for heat treating? Also anyone heat treating =after final planning? Sean Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:02 PMSubject: re-heat treat Yesterday I tried my heat gun oven for the first time. The =results were not to great. The test pieces went fine, but the first rod =section came out only half baked. The top half looks great but the =lower half(vertical oven) does not appear to have changed color.Could I reheat treat the section after I correct the oven problem or =should I scrap it out and start over(the rod section that is)?? Also =has anybody tried a hybrid oven with a heat gun and a mica strip =element?? TIA ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF65ED.D3A195E0 ----- Original Message ----- Love = Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 = PMSubject: re-heat treat to have changed color.Could I reheat treat the section after I correct = TIABradley Love ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF65ED.D3A195E0-- from grandriverangler@sprint.ca Sun Jan 23 21:20:43 2000 Subject: sharpening techniques boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF65EF.9B476600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF65EF.9B476600 Just saw the current issue of Fine Woodworking. It has an article in it =of interest to us all. They take three master craftsmen who use various =sharpening techniques. One who uses waterstones, one who uses oil =stones and the last uses sandpaper. No judgements are made, but an =interesting read. The waterstone guy acutally flattens his stone on a =concrete cinder block. Neat article. Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF65EF.9B476600 Just saw the current issue of Fine = = Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF65EF.9B476600-- from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 23 21:44:34 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:46:48 -0600 Subject: Re: drill rod / planing form Why don't you use hardened polished steel dowel pins. They tell you thesize on the box (usually something like 3/16 +.001) plus you can checkthe accuracy with your calipers anyway. These are available from 3/4"to 1-1/2" in small diameter nearly everywhere. Rick C. D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott wrote: After viewing Chris's article on calibration of depth gauges, I did thenecessary math to convince myself of the formula. I can see why thoselastcouple of thousandths were so hard to scrape from my strips. I amwondering how short a piece of drill rod is needed. It seems as thoughthelonger pieces like an actual drill would not set down in the groove at themeasuring station due to the taper. Would the numerical stampings andtheflutes of the bit make a difference? What is a source for plain drill rod? TIA,Dave from jhewitt@cmn.net Sun Jan 23 22:12:50 2000 Subject: Re: Time Estimates Ian,Thanks for your note. Your right of course. There are times when I letfolksget under my skin. I have been on the list for a couple of years, and I knowthatTerry has more good to say about rodmaking than bad about anything else.I try to avoid any of the flaming lists, and at times Terry comes tooclose tothat sort of insult. I need to continue to remind myself that it's easier tojustpass by the very few and far between remarks on the Rodmakers List thatI may notlike. The delete button is but a fingertip away.Again, Thanks for the note. Someday I hope to be able to be able to passon thesame message to another who may be upset with something or someone onthe list.Your understanding and insight are indeed welcome. So are your posts onrodmaking.Sincerely,John Hewitt Ian Kearney wrote: John , I understand your reaction to Terry . I sent him a rather similar noteabout18 months ago after a similar sort of statement by him. However.. I have learnt to understand Terry's somewhat blunt north English humour(my wife comes from Yorkshire so maybe it is easier for me ) and havebenefited from some really great rodbuilding advise from him on anumber ofoccasions. He holds his views very strongly , and expresses them bluntly,but I have learnt to gradually started to appreciate Terry as a rathervaluable member of the list even if he does upset a lot of people whohavenot become accustomed to his manner. I suppose I am saying try not to get too upset by Terry , one day he willprobably be of a great help to you on some rodmaking matter regards Ian Kearney from thomasrodco@hotmail.com Sun Jan 23 22:37:59 2000 Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:37:27 PST Subject: Is the list down? Sorry, I sent the email from the wrong location.Steve CampbellThomas Rod Co.Bangor,Maine______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from mevans@acxiom.com Sun Jan 23 23:39:54 2000 (router,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:41:06 -0600 (router,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:03:04 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 23 Jan2000 21:03:04-0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Sun Jan 2321:03:03 2000 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Dickerson 4th rod I wrapped Solar Shield over the fiberglass on my oven and sealed withfoil tape. The Solar Shield has a nice rip stop web providing somenice durability over the fiberglass and it looks ok. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod Tom,I don't know if it'll be enough to raise your temp sufficiently, but Iwrapped the outside of mine with the fiberglass batting you lay inbetweenyour rafters and it did the trick. You can get that stuff up to prettylarge R-numbers. Makes the outside look REAL ugly, but, hey we're alreadyblind to some of our faults, right? *G*Art from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Jan 24 02:29:37 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:29:32 +0100 Subject: Sv: re-heat treat boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF664A.F6F30D00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF664A.F6F30D00 Sean wrote Sean wrote there uses a black iron pipe and <propane torch for heat = Sean Yes, I use a 3 feet piece of stovepipe and a = goes like this: Make a 1 inch hole in the middle of the stove pipe = open in each end) Point thetorch through the small hole and fire away for = 10-15 minutes. The torch still burning, move the culm back and = while rotating it along its axis at the same time, never pausing. = colour. You do one end of half a culm, then reverse the culm and = the other end. Want tiger stripes? Just pause once in a while and = will make the stripes. Do wear SOLID gloves, as the culm gets HOT. regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF664A.F6F30D00-- from tragich23@juno.com Mon Jan 24 02:41:53 2000 "n/jV72cBIMotbOfRIXMjGCLYsQk8DB9zTz8x4kz0sCbNtkPTNqE2fg==" 03:41:33 EST take me off the list. some of you bitch too much and obviously have toomuch time on your hands. those of us with other jobs and lifes don'thave time to delete 60 messages of hermits having a pissing contest. iwill miss the constructive and positive RODBUILDERS on the list. therest of you can piss off.ai from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Jan 24 03:49:24 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id WAA18445; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:48:55 +1300 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod Well...with some trepidation I have to disagree with Terry on this. I built a heat gunned powered oven and with some modifications got it towork quite well but was confused over the various times andtemperaturesgiven for heat treating cane. There was a really good article in " thePlanning Form" about two years ago giving the results some experimentsondifferent heating times and temperatures. Sorry , I do not have that filewith me so cannot indicate the author of the article. It suggested thatmaybe a shorter time was as effective as a longer time provided thetemperature was high enough. A further personal view of mine is that different ( shorter) heating timesare required with an oven which has moving air , such as a heat gun ovenpowered oven , then an oven with still air. My wife assures me that youbakecakes for a considerably shorter time and/or lower temperatures whenusing afan forced oven then when not . After considerible experimenting I know with my heat gun powered oventhat 7minutes produces a nice light tan colour similar to many British rods andwhich seems the have a very crisp action and and no tendancy to take aset.I also know that at 10 minutes I have a strip of very very dark cane with atendancy to snap. You can guess how I know. I have not tried 60 minutesbuthave a fair idea that the rod be very dark and have a very very crisp action. It is strange that there is such a wide discrepency in suggested heatingtimes and temperatures so all I can suggest is to experiment a little toseewhat works for your setup. Ian Kearney At 01:32 PM 23/01/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Pink insulation will not burn.There was a misprint or mistake in Garrison's book regarding heattreatmenttimesthat somehow managed to find its way onto other knockoffs.6 minutes @ 375deg will not remove the moisture from a damp dollar billletalonetip sections. 60 minutes would be about right. FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: To all, Thanks for your responses. I'm starting the fourth rod, making theDickerson7012 again. I like that taper. I wanted to say after I bind myrod,take it out of the string and sand the rod, I put tongue oil on ittemporarily. I like to dip the rod later after the guides are on. So now onmy fourth rod, I guess I will keep it in a tube with dessicant to avoidmoisture build up and then dip it once with the urethane, then mount theguides and proceed to dip later. I have the butt section glued. It wasmade from a tiger flamed culm, although some of you have said that i shouldalsoheat treat it at 375? Will the butt section be alright? I did it before Iknew that additional heat treatment should be done. I'm working on the tip section. I did heat treat those yesterday (strips,notbeveled splines). I could only get my heat oven up to 300 degrees F. So Ibaked it for 15 minutes. I made the heat oven from The Best of thePlaningForm Book. I can only reach a max of 300 degrees. Anybody know whatinsulationcould be put on the stove pipe to increase the temperature withoutcausingthe insulation to burn? I assume that pink insulation will burn. Thanks Tom N. from lars32@gateway.net Mon Jan 24 06:59:01 2000 Subject: Re: drying cabinets I made Cattanach' tube right out of the book withthe exception of a lightbulb to heat the lower chamber and an indoor outdoor thermometer tochecktemps in the upper and lower chamber. Ahumidity gauge tells me it staysat40% in the summer if I leave the upper flouresent light on. The lowerstaysat 100degrees the upper 80 degrees. I use Varmor R10 Pratt and Lamberturethane varnish. After I withdraw a section from the dipo tube I let ithang for 15 Minutes before moving it to a hook inside the tube at thispointit will be dust proof. Dust will no longer stick to it. I then move 0on tothe next section. The finish comes out Perfect so there is no need to touchit after finishing.Thanks again to Wayne Cattanach it is the perfect set up. If you try tomove your sections before the varnish sets up and is dust free you WILLhavedust motes on your finish.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: drying cabinets I build a 1'x1'x5' long wooden cabinet with 3 plexiglass door, a narrowoneat the to[p to reach thru, a narrow one at the botton to reach thru and atall one in the middle to access the whole box. My varnish tube come outthe bottom and the sections stay in the box from the time they arecleaneduntil the varnish is dry.I just use a regular 60 watt lite bulb under acoffee can and it keeps the box between 90 and 100 degrees f.John John, Odd that this was on the list today. I went to slip last night consideringconfigurations for a dip box to use in my stairwell. I was thinking about aboxthat would contain the lift and drying section and the varnish tube. Yourssounds simpler. Do you detach the varnish tube to use the light bulb rig? One thing I havebeenpuzzled about dipping, is the process itself. I will probably be dippingonesection at a time. Do I let it dry in the cabinet before dipping anothersection? Do I remove it wet to a drying cabinet? Do I move it to the sideofthe dipping cabinet to facilitate dipping another rod? I need to considerthesethings to realize my design. What is your procedure, anyone? SWMBO will probably not stand for a permanent dipping cabinet in ourfinishedstairwell, so I will probably make it in two sections. Any thoughts, anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Jan 24 07:02:58 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Drying Cabinets All, Have my plans drawn up. Thanks for the input from everyone. I am going to place the cabinet in a closet and extend the varnish tubethrough the floor into my shop. I have one final question. The idealplace to put the cabinet is in a closet in my den. Will I have a lot ofproblems with fumes when I have a four piece rod curing in the cabinet? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 24 07:32:09 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:32:38 -0600 Subject: Re: drill rod / planing form Any size of drill rod blanks are available from Travers Tool, and at verygood prices. Try : www.taraverstool.com GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: drill rod / planing form Why don't you use hardened polished steel dowel pins. They tell you thesize on the box (usually something like 3/16 +.001) plus you can checkthe accuracy with your calipers anyway. These are available from 3/4"to 1-1/2" in small diameter nearly everywhere. Rick C. D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott wrote: After viewing Chris's article on calibration of depth gauges, I did thenecessary math to convince myself of the formula. I can see why thoselastcouple of thousandths were so hard to scrape from my strips. I amwondering how short a piece of drill rod is needed. It seems as thoughthelonger pieces like an actual drill would not set down in the groove atthemeasuring station due to the taper. Would the numerical stampings andtheflutes of the bit make a difference? What is a source for plain drillrod? TIA,Dave from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 24 07:39:52 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:40:20 -0600 Subject: Re: drill rod / planing form I can't spell this morning ! It's: www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: drill rod / planing form Any size of drill rod blanks are available from Travers Tool, and at verygood prices. Try : www.taraverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 9:43 PMSubject: Re: drill rod / planing form Why don't you use hardened polished steel dowel pins. They tell you thesize on the box (usually something like 3/16 +.001) plus you can checkthe accuracy with your calipers anyway. These are available from 3/4"to 1-1/2" in small diameter nearly everywhere. Rick C. D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott wrote: After viewing Chris's article on calibration of depth gauges, I didthenecessary math to convince myself of the formula. I can see whythoselastcouple of thousandths were so hard to scrape from my strips. I amwondering how short a piece of drill rod is needed. It seems asthoughthelonger pieces like an actual drill would not set down in the groove atthemeasuring station due to the taper. Would the numerical stampingsandtheflutes of the bit make a difference? What is a source for plain drillrod? TIA,Dave from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 24 07:48:19 2000 Subject: Adhesives I know I'm going to get lambasted over this one but I'm going to askanyway then I'll duck and run for cover!When I first started out to build rods I bought Titebond 2 on RonBarch's advice to a newbie, it was very appealing; clean, easy to use,no fancy chemist type alterations, and best of all I didn't worry abouthealth issues, it was easy to clean up the blanks after, and unlikeUrac, here in Canada,was readily available. My test pieces amazed me.After numerous horror stories about heat delams though I decided toswitch to Urac, what a pain this stuff is compared to the titebond. Painto clean, pain to mix correctly and what a pain to get off the blanks!!I guess what I'm tiptoeing around here (under fear of being publiclycaned half to death with delamed strips of bamboo) is : Other thantitebond has anyone tried the newer PVA glues for heat resistance?Searched the archives and it doesn't look likemuch has been written. I heard that Titebond even has a new PVA type. Iam only asking because it sure would be nice to have an option of usinga simple glue., Shawn from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Jan 24 08:01:43 2000 Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:01:36 -0500 lblove@cableone.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: re-heat treat On your suggestion, Sean, I do. I've got a five foot section of black pipewith 1/8 inch holes in the end caps, suspended from my basement ceilingbylengths of chain. Put the bound sections in and apply two propane torchesto the pipe for 45 minutes, rotating every 30 seconds or so. Rod comesouta nice mocha color, well tempered. -----Original Message-----From: Karen and Sean Moran [SMTP:moran@lincoln.midcoast.com]Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 10:05 PM Subject: Re: re-heat treat Just curious. I was wondering if anyone out there uses a black iron pipeand propane torch for heat treating? Also anyone heat treating afterfinal planning? Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: Bradley Love Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:02 PMSubject: re-heat treat Hello everybody, Yesterday I tried my heat gun oven for the first time. Theresults were not to great. The test pieces went fine, but the first rodsection came out only half baked. The top half looks great but the lowerhalf(vertical oven) does not appear to have changed color.Could I reheat treat the section after I correct the oven problem orshould I scrap it out and start over(the rod section that is)?? Also hasanybody tried a hybrid oven with a heat gun and a mica strip element?? TIABradley Love from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 24 08:06:22 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:06:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Adhesives I've yet to fish it, but so far I've found the Elmer's Pro-Bond more thanacceptable. Another on here, says he uses Gorilla, glue and has excellentresults, and it's also a poly urethane. Having used the Titebonds for anumber of years in modeling work, I'm a bit leery of water based glues,withcane construction. I've done allot of flexing, etc. of separation repairs with the Pro-Bond,and so far, I find nothing close to failure. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Adhesives I know I'm going to get lambasted over this one but I'm going to askanyway then I'll duck and run for cover!When I first started out to build rods I bought Titebond 2 on RonBarch's advice to a newbie, it was very appealing; clean, easy to use,no fancy chemist type alterations, and best of all I didn't worry abouthealth issues, it was easy to clean up the blanks after, and unlikeUrac, here in Canada,was readily available. My test pieces amazed me.After numerous horror stories about heat delams though I decided toswitch to Urac, what a pain this stuff is compared to the titebond. Painto clean, pain to mix correctly and what a pain to get off the blanks!!I guess what I'm tiptoeing around here (under fear of being publiclycaned half to death with delamed strips of bamboo) is : Other thantitebond has anyone tried the newer PVA glues for heat resistance?Searched the archives and it doesn't look likemuch has been written. I heard that Titebond even has a new PVA type. Iam only asking because it sure would be nice to have an option of usinga simple glue., Shawn from lars32@gateway.net Mon Jan 24 08:08:02 2000 Subject: Re: Sandpaper You can get sandpaper at Abrasive Outlet in Minneapolis for 30-to 35Cents asheet. No interest etc. 1-800-814-7358Dave N.-----Original Message----- Subject: Sandpaper Guys,Just thought I'd pass along a bit of info about where to buy finesandpaper.I've seen mention of buying, ie 2000 grit paper at Wally world, where Ididin fact buy some. Today while driving around loose and unattended Istoppedat an automotive paint store wher they had paper in grits from 1000 to2500in packs of 50 sheets (size 5 1/2 x 9 inches) for $25.00 per pack.Comparedto what I had to spend previously at WW this comes out to at least a 50%savings!Hope this will be of some help to someone, Mike from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan 24 08:08:26 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:05:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Drying Cabinets Steve,Can't really answer that one... I don't have anyone around here thesedays to complain about the fumes, so my entire house smells of varnishandheated cane... I kinda like it myself... call it potpourri!Honestly, the rods don't fume off that much in a drying cabinet, so youshouldn't have much problem. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Drying Cabinets All, Have my plans drawn up. Thanks for the input from everyone. I am going to place the cabinet in a closet and extend the varnish tubethrough the floor into my shop. I have one final question. The idealplace to put the cabinet is in a closet in my den. Will I have a lot ofproblems with fumes when I have a four piece rod curing in the cabinet? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Jan 24 08:35:37 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Andy -- Got a mirror? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: take me off the list. some of you bitch too much and obviously have toomuch time on your hands. those of us with other jobs and lifes don'thave time to delete 60 messages of hermits having a pissing contest. iwill miss the constructive and positive RODBUILDERS on the list. therest of you can piss off.ai from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 24 08:49:29 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:49:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation I wonder if the gas wasn't nitrogen, as it has a great drying affect. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation Darryl,One of the old rod making companies used a gas preservative toimpregnatetheir rods which penetrated the wood and crystallized. I don't remembertoomuch about it, except there was controversy over the additional weightitadded. Have you checked the weight your process is going to add to therod?Ernie -----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000 10:16 AMSubject: Polyurethane impregnation Here is the results of my experiments so far.I cut a 3 inch section of a raw strip, a roughed outstrip and a 3 inch section of a blank trimming. Put themall under polyurethane varnish and pulled a vacuumon them until they stopped producing bubbles - whichwas 20 minutes for the blank section. Released thevacuum and let it sit for an hour, then pulled the vacuum in my drying cabinet for most of last week. Cut them allin half to see if the varnish went all the way through. Itdid in all cases. So, what did I hope to learn from this? I wanted to seeat which point it would be the best to do the impregnation.Before planing, after roughing, or on a blank. I think workflow wise and what I'm used to doing, impregnating a blankis the way to go. Today I will impregnate a raw strip a couple feet long, and strips. Darryl from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 24 09:03:23 2000 Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:03:18 -0800 Subject: Re: ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: take me off the list. some of you bitch too much and obviously have toomuch time on your hands. those of us with other jobs and lifes don'thave time to delete 60 messages of hermits having a pissing contest. iwill miss the constructive and positive RODBUILDERS on the list. therest of you can piss off.ai Well, looks like to me you just added your two cents worth to thepissing contest, and lost! Now all you have is a bad attitude, and piss onyour boots. signed ON the list. Remember those? The first three lines say: Welcome to RODMAKERS!!! !!!! PLEASE SAVE THIS MESSAGE !!!!You will doubtlessly find occasion to refer to it later. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll send you a coupla'hundred copies. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:04:08 2000 Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation Darryl,One of the old rod making companies used a gas preservative to impregnatetheir rods which penetrated the wood and crystallized. I don'tremember toomuch about it, except there was controversy over the additional weightitadded. Have you checked the weight your process is going to add to the rod?Ernie No matter what you impregnate bamboo with it is going to add weight.Hopefully it will add stiffness so that you can make the rod thinner toreduce some of that added weight.Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:08:30 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Polyurethane impregnation In a message dated 1/23/00 2:52:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: As I use PVA glue, wonder if PU varnish would somehowweaken the glue. Got any ideas/theories? One idea I have is - Why don't you join me in my experiments?Give it a try and You tell Me if PU varnish affects PVA glue...Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:17:41 2000 Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation Probably formaldehyde gas. It's a fairly well known process topreserve wood in furniture making.Darryl I wonder if the gas wasn't nitrogen, as it has a great drying affect. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Ernie Harrison" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:14 PMSubject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation Darryl,One of the old rod making companies used a gas preservative toimpregnatetheir rods which penetrated the wood and crystallized. I don'tremembertoomuch about it, except there was controversy over the additionalweight itadded. Have you checked the weight your process is going to add to therod?Ernie from ctracy@ckan.com Mon Jan 24 09:30:17 2000 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:49:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Adhesives Shawn, I just finished gluing up my first rod and chose to use Titebond II.I did so for all of the positive reasons that you stated in your post. Iresearched the archives and found that the only real negatives to Titebondwas the shorter working time (which hasn't been a problem so far), thelowertemperature at which Titebond fails when straightening and the lack ofdataas to the long-term holding ability of the glue. I believe that DarrylHayashida has been using Titebond for several years to glue up the splinesand hasn't reported any problems so far. For me, simple and easilyavailable was a better choice for my own situation. Now I just hope thatitholds!! Shawn Pineo wrote: I know I'm going to get lambasted over this one but I'm going to askanyway then I'll duck and run for cover!When I first started out to build rods I bought Titebond 2 on RonBarch's advice to a newbie, it was very appealing; clean, easy to use,no fancy chemist type alterations, and best of all I didn't worry abouthealth issues, it was easy to clean up the blanks after, and unlikeUrac, here in Canada,was readily available. My test pieces amazed me.After numerous horror stories about heat delams though I decided toswitch to Urac, what a pain this stuff is compared to the titebond. Painto clean, pain to mix correctly and what a pain to get off the blanks!!I guess what I'm tiptoeing around here (under fear of being publiclycaned half to death with delamed strips of bamboo) is : Other thantitebond has anyone tried the newer PVA glues for heat resistance?Searched the archives and it doesn't look likemuch has been written. I heard that Titebond even has a new PVA type. Iam only asking because it sure would be nice to have an option of usinga simple glue., Shawn from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Jan 24 09:38:00 2000 Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation According to Dick Spurr and Gloria Jordan's book on Wes Jordan, Wesclaimed that the uptake of the resins in the Orvis impregnation process was 9% by weight. Regular varnish also adds weight, of course, but probably not as much. BTW, I think the vacuum technique you describe is used by some currentrod makers like AJ and Mark Ruhe. They describe it as a "tung oilimpregnation" but I reckon it's a secret mixture of stuff rather than pure tung oil alone. Don't know if any resins/hardenders are in their mixtures. --Rich from ernie2@pacbell.net Mon Jan 24 10:04:51 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation GMA,It wasn't nitrogen, it crystallized in the bamboo. I have also heardthey treat Black Diamond telephone poles with the same preservative.Ernie -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Polyurethane impregnation I wonder if the gas wasn't nitrogen, as it has a great drying affect.GMA from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jan 24 10:04:55 2000 IAA06503 ESMTP; Mon, 24Jan 2000 08:04:15 -0800 (5.5.2448.0) "'nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca'" Subject: RE: drying cabinets there is a real good one in Ray Gould's book. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca[SMTP:nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 6:27 PM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: drying cabinets I have a great idea, I think in my drying box I'm going to throw in thiscomputer, lord knows it seems to draw the dust right to it!! On a seriousnotethough, that is a good question. There doesn't appear to be an abundanceofinfo out there on drying cabinets. I haven't actually even seen a set ofplans in Wayne's video,Shawn Hi Rod makers:I am building a drying cabinet this weekend, and I wanted to know whatyouall use for a bulb. I am not going to use florescents, but do you use heatlamps? What exactly do you guys recommend. My drip and leave systemis tooslow. I want a separate cabinet to dry and prep stuff before dipping. IfIhad a 125w infrared lamp on a clamp fixture, would that be too hot. Iwasthinking of a wooden cabinet with a plastic strip for a door.Thanks,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jan 24 10:06:08 2000 IAA09416 ESMTP; Mon, 24Jan 2000 08:05:47 -0800 (5.5.2448.0) "'nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca'" Subject: RE: Glace cotton thread you can get a big spool for $16 Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca[SMTP:nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 6:31 PM Subject: Glace cotton thread Can anyone explain to me why we use glace cotton thread at $40 a spoolwhen I can go to Walma## and get a spool of 100% cotton crochet string What exactly is so much better about glace??, Shawn from vkings@juno.com Mon Jan 24 10:17:26 2000 "p6l86xe7B71ADBQzx1bp5xhdruoUC1mjkIfaLwTBXRfcajSqM/CdTg==" 11:16:36 EST Subject: Re: Adhesives I've just glued a rod with Pro Bond.Haven't had time to do anything butsand it down,Sands easy,Wondered about the heat setting treatment,wentto(www.elmers.com} they say nothing about heat treating.They do have a MDsheetlisting you might want to read before using.As with the Gorillaglue, I removed the string after 24 hrs.then let it hang for another 4days before sanding.had a slight twist in one tip and heated it to takeit out.No problem.I do think it stiffened the rod a little.Might have to run a test,usingtwo tips sections,gluing one with Pro Bond ,the other w/Naytex.R.L. On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:07:24 -0600 "nobler" writes:I've yet to fish it, but so far I've found the Elmer's Pro-Bond more thanacceptable. Another on here, says he uses Gorilla, glue and has excellentresults, and it's also a poly urethane. Having used the Titebonds number of years in modeling work, I'm a bit leery of water based glues, withcane construction. I've done allot of flexing, etc. of separation repairs with the Pro-Bond,and so far, I find nothing close to failure. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 7:40 AMSubject: Adhesives I know I'm going to get lambasted over this one but I'm going to askanyway then I'll duck and run for cover!When I first started out to build rods I bought Titebond 2 on RonBarch's advice to a newbie, it was very appealing; clean, easy to use,no fancy chemist type alterations, and best of all I didn't worry abouthealth issues, it was easy to clean up the blanks after, and unlikeUrac, here in Canada,was readily available. My test pieces amazed me.After numerous horror stories about heat delams though I decided toswitch to Urac, what a pain this stuff is compared to the titebond. Painto clean, pain to mix correctly and what a pain to get off the blanks!!I guess what I'm tiptoeing around here (under fear of being publiclycaned half to death with delamed strips of bamboo) is : Other thantitebond has anyone tried the newer PVA glues for heat resistance?Searched the archives and it doesn't look likemuch has been written. I heard that Titebond even has a new PVA type. Iam only asking because it sure would be nice to have an option of usinga simple glue., Shawn from vkings@juno.com Mon Jan 24 10:17:30 2000 "p6l86xe7B71ADBQzx1bp5xhdruoUC1mjuLfuK/qrjATVUZ1RKIKp3A==" 11:16:36 EST rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: re-heat treat I did my first 7 or 8 rods using the pipe method,hung from the ceilingw/wire,one tourch,traveled from one end to the other,then gave the pipe a1/4 turn,takes about 1 hourfor the steam to stop coming out.Severalthings, end caps hould have holes drilled in them,and make sure thebundled sections flip or turn when you turn the pipe,otherwise you'llburn one side.After the steam stops coming out.plug the end cap holeswith a piece of dowell,and keep turning the pipe tillit cools.R.L. On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:04:31 -0500 Seth Steinzorwrites:On your suggestion, Sean, I do. I've got a five foot section of black pipewith 1/8 inch holes in the end caps, suspended from my basement ceiling bylengths of chain. Put the bound sections in and apply two propane torchesto the pipe for 45 minutes, rotating every 30 seconds or so. Rod comes outa nice mocha color, well tempered. -----Original Message-----From: Karen and Sean Moran [SMTP:moran@lincoln.midcoast.com]Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 10:05 PM Subject: Re: re-heat treat Just curious. I was wondering if anyone out there uses a black iron pipeand propane torch for heat treating? Also anyone heat treating afterfinal planning? Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: Bradley Love Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:02 PMSubject: re-heat treat Hello everybody, Yesterday I tried my heat gun oven for the first time. Theresults were not to great. The test pieces went fine, but the first rodsection came out only half baked. The top half looks great but the lowerhalf(vertical oven) does not appear to have changed color.Could I reheat treat the section after I correct the oven problem orshould I scrap it out and start over(the rod section that is)?? Also hasanybody tried a hybrid oven with a heat gun and a mica strip element?? TIABradley Love from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Jan 24 11:22:21 2000 0500 Subject: RE: Adhesives I've used Epon so far...according to the label it is super toxic stuff...like itcan kill you if you look at it funny. Anyone know just how bad it is andwhatcan be done to minimize possible effects? I was thinking of getting one ofthosemasks they use in auto body shops (about $40 I think). Is Urac any lesstoxic? Thanks... from lars32@gateway.net Mon Jan 24 11:44:57 2000 Subject: Re: Sv: Polyurethane impregnation I use pratt & lamberts Varmor R10 PU varnish and have had severalconversations with their tech. help dept. maybe they know something.1-800-289-7728Dave Norling-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Polyurethane impregnation In a message dated 1/23/00 2:52:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: As I use PVA glue, wonder if PU varnish would somehowweaken the glue. Got any ideas/theories? One idea I have is - Why don't you join me in my experiments?Give it a try and You tell Me if PU varnish affects PVA glue...Darryl from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 24 12:14:22 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8095D9100EC; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:20:57 -0500 Subject: Naming Convention for rodmakers Bob N.,Don't change your name.If you look at the names of the famous, high- quality, production"Golden Era" American rodmakers (please note all qualifiers) you willdetect a very few different roots:* Have a last name that people recognize as a first name,e.g., Leonard, (3) Edwards, Thomas.* Anglo-Saxon predominates (a few Normans might have creptin, as well), e.g., Young, Payne, Granger, Hawes. So, basically, two syllables or less, and Anglo-Saxon --- Nunleyworks just fine. Of course, it doesn't have the ring of Parker, Taylor,or the first name usage of Thomas & Thomas, but it should fit well inthe Pantheon.Best regards,ReedP.S. - The above is simply a record of historical fact and does not inany way reflect upon the abilities or work of the rodmakers of today. from davidpledger@attglobal.net Mon Jan 24 13:39:18 2000 SMTP +0000 Subject: (no subject) PLEASE get me off this mailing list. The volume of mail is ridiculous. Dave P from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Jan 24 15:20:35 2000 ns1.net-gate.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06936 for; Subject: Rodmakers Syndrome To The List My Carpel Syndrome is not caused by planing as much as by deleting 80 orso messages each day, many of which are not of general interest. Give meabreak. Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Jan 24 15:20:40 2000 ns1.net-gate.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06926 for; Subject: Rodmakers Syndrome To The List My Carpel Syndrome is not caused by planing as much as by deleting 80 orso more-or-less useless messages each day. Give me a break. Bill from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan 24 15:32:02 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:29:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Sv: Polyurethane impregnation Darryl,Been experimenting along with you... here is one thing I ran into. Ibuilt a section just to varnish impreg, did it pretty much like youdescribed, then tore it apart. It seemed that I could easily, maybe tooeasily, tear elonged groupings of fibers away from the section by juststarting them with my thumbnail and basically peeling it like an orange.Maybe it was something I did wrong, maybe I didn't cure long enough,although the peelings were very dry but and very flexible... I don't know...kinda spooked me! run into anything like that?However, using URAC on my section, the glue joints DID hold very well.No separation at all, and could not split the glue joints after I gotfinished peeling the fibers off of the flats. Bob One idea I have is - Why don't you join me in my experiments?Give it a try and You tell Me if PU varnish affects PVA glue...Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan 24 16:12:51 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:10:22 -0600 Subject: My problems with varnish impregnating. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_05D9_01BF6685.962EDB80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_05D9_01BF6685.962EDB80 made, you can see an image of it at =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/impregrod.jpg . If=you'll look, I also broke the blank to see how it would break, and if it =would splinter long splinters the way it should. This section was heat =treated exactly the same way i heat treat all my blanks, and I had a =junk blank in the garage that was broken... well it (and the many others =I have destroyed) all broke in long splinters, the way properly heat =treated cane should... This did not. The break was relatively clean, =with the splinters being short fibers and no separations below or above =the break. Just for your info, the procedure I used was as follows. =Drew a 29 inch vacuum on the blank in the varnish for 30 minutes, then =released the vacuum, and then put the contents of the tube under 30 psi =of pressure for 24 hours. I assure you, this puppy was varnish =impregnated all the way through, but the breaking characteristics kinda =bothered me. Just thought those of you trying this should see what = Another note, I used URAC to glue the section up, and the varnish =impreg process did NOT affect the glue joint strength whatsoever. I =could peel this thing like an orange (some of the peelings are laying =beside the broken blank in the picture), but only between the glue =joints... not through them.One final note (boy, keep thinking of things). The medium I used =was Varmor R10. Another varnish/poly might react totally different. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_05D9_01BF6685.962EDB80 made, you can see an image of it at ht= . If you'll look, I also broke the blank to see how it would break, and = treated exactly the same way i heat treat all my blanks, and I had a = in the garage that was broken... well it (and the many others I have = all broke in long splinters, the way properly heat treated cane = the blank in the varnish for 30 minutes, then released the vacuum, and = you, this puppy was varnish impregnated all the way through, but the = are laying beside the broken blank in the picture), but only between the = joints... not through them. different. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_05D9_01BF6685.962EDB80-- from muscade.noix@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 24 16:18:40 2000 24 Jan 200023:18:35 +0100 2000 23:18:18+0100 Subject: munro rod co dear list members:I have difficulty receiving purchase from munro rod.Still in business ? Fabrice. from jcollier@siu.edu Mon Jan 24 16:34:49 2000 Subject: Fishing Around/In Smokies Does anyone know were a person can hike to a good trout stream in/aroundtheSmokies? I've been trying to get some information on the Cherokee IndianReservation with no luck. I'm looking forward to getting a trout on myfirst bamboo! ThanksJohn Collier PS Since this is a little bit off topic, please respond off list. Thanksagain. from ernie2@pacbell.net Mon Jan 24 16:41:01 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Rodmakers Syndrome Apparently your dislike does not include double posting. :-)Ernie -----Original Message----- Subject: Rodmakers Syndrome To The ListMy Carpel Syndrome is not caused by planing as much as by deleting 80orso messages each day, many of which are not of general interest. Giveme abreak. Bill from jfreeman@cyberport.com Mon Jan 24 17:39:33 2000 Subject: Re: (no subject) Dave, You haven't stuck around long enough to get addicted. The rest of us don'tthink there's enough. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: (no subject) PLEASE get me off this mailing list. The volume of mail is ridiculous. Dave P from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jan 24 17:40:51 2000 Subject: Re: Varnishing method In a message dated 01/23/2000 9:19:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: Shawn,I varnish my blanks before mounting the guidesand then varnish the guide wraps, without getting any varnishon the blank. I think it makes a lot nicer looking rod this way.If you've ever had to replace a guide later on, you know whatis involved. But, doing the guide wraps separately from the blank,you can change a guide and wraps without any problem. Dave L. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Jan 24 17:49:44 2000 Subject: Tom Morgan Guys,If anyone has his email, or phone number, I would appreciate it if youwouldsend it--privately so I won't take up any more bandwidth!Thanks, Mike from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jan 24 17:59:58 2000 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Syndrome Have you been forgetting to wear your surgical support?Put it on and stop complaining!Terry Bill Fink wrote: To The ListMy Carpel Syndrome is not caused by planing as much as by deleting 80orso more-or-less useless messages each day. Give me a break. Bill from tonkin@xtn.net Mon Jan 24 18:13:53 2000 Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:13:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Fishing Around/In Smokies Opportunities abound in the Smokies! What kind of trip are youinterested in? Do you want to hike in, fish, and hike out in the sameday? Do you want backpacking trips? Figure out what kind of trip thatyou are looking for and I may be able to point you in the rightdirection.A good place to start is to contact a Great Smokey Mountain ParkBackcountry office. The phone number for the office at the ElkmontCampground backcountry office is 423- 436-1271. Try during the daylighthours. The Rangers will point you in the right direction for maps andinfo! John Collier wrote: Does anyone know were a person can hike to a good trout streamin/around theSmokies? I've been trying to get some information on the CherokeeIndianReservation with no luck. I'm looking forward to getting a trout on myfirst bamboo! ThanksJohn Collier PS Since this is a little bit off topic, please respond off list. Thanksagain. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Jan 24 18:17:34 2000 Subject: I goofed and need some suggestions Well guys, old nimble fingers goofed on one of my strips so I need toremakeone. Now, would it be better to just rough plane it, then heat treat andfinish plane, or bring it down to finished dimensions then heat treat. I'llprobably wrap it to a straight piece of steel before I put it in the oven tohelp keep it straight, but I could use some input about the above. Thanks, Mike from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jan 24 18:23:05 2000 Subject: Re: Terry A. C1946A924C357DA337B79C7A" --------------C1946A924C357DA337B79C7A Dave,I am not laughing. We are making the best rods the world has ever seen(according to the guys) and no one gives a shit.I am going to quit rodmaking and carry on where Michelangelo left offand sculpt another David but this time give him some better tackle!Terry lars32 wrote: H.L. Menchen said "Self respect is the secure feeling that as of yetno one has found out!"Terry you have found us out. You know that wetake ourselves too seriously and it makes you smile. And now I havefound you out, you are smiling aren't you Terry?Dave N. --------------C1946A924C357DA337B79C7A Dave, ever seen (according to the guys) and no one gives a shit.I am going to quit rodmaking and carry on where Michelangelo left offand sculpt another David but this time give him some better tackle!Terry lars32 wrote: said "Self respect is the secure feeling that as of yet no one has foundout!"Terry youhave foundus out. You know that we take ourselves too seriously and it makes you --------------C1946A924C357DA337B79C7A-- from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Jan 24 18:33:45 2000 Subject: Re: Fishing Around/In Smokies John: When are you going? I live in Knoxville, so these are my home waters. The reservation is heavily stocked. In contrast, the streams in the Parkhaven't been stocked since 1975. --Rich from cadams46@juno.com Mon Jan 24 18:50:18 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswHvWcs0MhMkRaqyzYHtrWeohaItq6o4ACQ==" 19:48:45 EST Subject: Re: Varnishing method Dave,Don't you have trouble singeng the silk winding with the blankfinished?seems to me the lamp would melt or blacken the finish a bit. Justcourious because I've been thinking about this method. ThanksC.R. Adams from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jan 24 19:01:25 2000 Subject: Re: Varnishing method In a message dated 01/24/2000 7:54:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, cadams46@juno.com writes: Chase,No, I don't have any problem singeing the silkwraps. Just a quick pass over the flame for a second does it.no harm to the varnish. Dave from dr.matro@airmail.net Mon Jan 24 19:01:48 2000 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.423) with esmtp for Subject: Re: Terry A. boundary="------------D71A8121133EDEA1735B6AA2" --------------D71A8121133EDEA1735B6AA2 Hey, Terry You mean something like this? [Image] --------------D71A8121133EDEA1735B6AA2 boundary="------------6977D5A07BB36A305506FE2E" --------------6977D5A07BB36A305506FE2E <I am going to quit rodmaking and carry on where Michelangelo left offand sculpt another David but this time give him some better tackle! >Hey, TerryYou mean something like this?> from amcsmith@nlis.net Mon Jan 2419:25:48 2000 Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:28:01 -0500 Subject: RE: My problems with varnish impregnating. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF66A8.7A645D80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF66A8.7A645D80 bob,i suspect what is happening here is that when you pull 29" of vacumon your glued blank is that your boiling the water in the bamboo andthat since the rod is glued there is less of an oppertunity for the moistureto get out thus it opens pockets in the individual strip, one of mycustemershas an old lithium bromide absorber for an air conditioner this machineboils distilled water at 40 degrees F at approx 25 inches of vacum, mychart says water will evaporate [boil] at 52.3 degrees F at 10 mm ofmercury 2mm mercury is approx 26" vacum i think, your dip tank wouldbe at 70 plus so anyways this is just a WAG [wild ass guess]chris smithporter me -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: My problems with varnish impregnating. made, you can see an image of it athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/impregrod.jpg . Ifyou'lllook, I also broke the blank to see how it would break, and if it wouldsplinter long splinters the way it should. This section was heat treatedexactly the same way i heat treat all my blanks, and I had a junk blank inthe garage that was broken... well it (and the many others I havedestroyed)all broke in long splinters, the way properly heat treated cane should...This did not. The break was relatively clean, with the splinters beingshort fibers and no separations below or above the break. Just for yourinfo, the procedure I used was as follows. Drew a 29 inch vacuum on theblank in the varnish for 30 minutes, then released the vacuum, and thenputthe contents of the tube under 30 psi of pressure for 24 hours. I assureyou, this puppy was varnish impregnated all the way through, but thebreaking characteristics kinda bothered me. Just thought those of youtrying this should see what happened on my end.Another note, I used URAC to glue the section up, and the varnishimpreg process did NOT affect the glue joint strength whatsoever. I couldpeel this thing like an orange (some of the peelings are laying beside thebroken blank in the picture), but only between the glue joints... notthrough them.One final note (boy, keep thinking of things). The medium I used wasVarmor R10. Another varnish/poly might react totally different. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF66A8.7A645D80 bob, vacum moisture custemers my mercury 2mm mercury is approx 26"vacum i = dip tank would 70 plus so anyways this is just a WAG [wild ass =guess] smith me = impregnating. made, you can see an image of it at ht= . If you'll look, I also broke the blank to see how it would break, = treated exactly the same way i heat treat all my blanks, and I had a = blank in the garage that was broken... well it (and the many others I = destroyed) all broke in long splinters, the way properly heat treated = minutes, then released the vacuum, and then put the contents of the = impregnated all the way through, but the breaking characteristics = are laying beside the broken blank in the picture), but only between = joints... not through them. totally different. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF66A8.7A645D80-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jan 24 19:30:16 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: David... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF668F.42D253E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF668F.42D253E0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0024_01BF668F.42E31CC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01BF668F.42E31CC0 Come on... looks like a plastic rod!-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:03 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Terry A. Hey, Terry You mean something like this? from can@telusplanet.net Mon Jan 24 19:55:32 2000 telusplanet.net") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with ESMTP Subject: Don Burns? Anybody have Don Burns e-mail or Don are you out there?, have a query -- CheersCraig from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jan 24 20:01:37 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:59:05 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0681_01BF66A5.8887C760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0681_01BF66A5.8887C760 You could be right, but my entire purpose of drawing that much =vacuum was to evacuate all of the moisture (water) out of the bamboo =that is mechanically possible and replace it with P.U. When I tore =apart the section that I broke off, there were no unusual voids that =appeared like pockets, rather it just looked like pith and fiber =structures but a little darker in color because of the polyurethane in = Maybe a little less vacuum would be in order, but for now, I have to =abandone this and get back to making rods before I get any farther =behind. I have a couple of more ideas that I want to try, but they =involve other impregnants. Maybe later this spring if things slow down =a bit. Thanks,Bob-----Original Message-----From: chris & annmarie smith Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 7:23 PMSubject: RE: My problems with varnish impregnating. bob,i suspect what is happening here is that when you pull 29" of vacumon your glued blank is that your boiling the water in the bamboo and = that since the rod is glued there is less of an oppertunity for the =moistureto get out thus it opens pockets in the individual strip, one of my =custemershas an old lithium bromide absorber for an air conditioner this = boils distilled water at 40 degrees F at approx 25 inches of vacum, =mychart says water will evaporate [boil] at 52.3 degrees F at 10 mm of = mercury 2mm mercury is approx 26" vacum i think, your dip tank wouldbe at 70 plus so anyways this is just a WAG [wild ass guess]chris smithporter me -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: My problems with varnish impregnating. blank I made, you can see an image of it at =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/impregrod.jpg . If =you'll look, I also broke the blank to see how it would break, and if it =would splinter long splinters the way it should. This section was heat =treated exactly the same way i heat treat all my blanks, and I had a =junk blank in the garage that was broken... well it (and the many others =I have destroyed) all broke in long splinters, the way properly heat =treated cane should... This did not. The break was relatively clean, =with the splinters being short fibers and no separations below or above =the break. Just for your info, the procedure I used was as follows. =Drew a 29 inch vacuum on the blank in the varnish for 30 minutes, then =released the vacuum, and then put the contents of the tube under 30 psi =of pressure for 24 hours. I assure you, this puppy was varnish =impregnated all the way through, but the breaking characteristics kinda =bothered me. Just thought those of you trying this should see what = Another note, I used URAC to glue the section up, and the =varnish impreg process did NOT affect the glue joint strength =whatsoever. I could peel this thing like an orange (some of the =peelings are laying beside the broken blank in the picture), but only =between the glue joints... not through them.One final note (boy, keep thinking of things). The medium I =used was Varmor R10. Another varnish/poly might react totally =different. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0681_01BF66A5.8887C760 Chris, entire purpose of drawing that much vacuum was to evacuate all of the = (water) out of the bamboo that is mechanically possible and replace it = voids that appeared like pockets, rather it just looked like pith and = structures but a little darker in color because of the polyurethane in = = would be in order, but for now, I have to abandone this and get back to = spring if things slow down a bit. did = buddy's AC evacuation pump. Thanks,Bob -----Original = = Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, January 24, 2000 7:23 PMSubject: RE: My = varnish impregnating.bob, vacum that since the rod is glued there is less= oppertunity for the moisture custemershas an old lithium bromide absorber for= conditioner this machine boils distilled water at 40 degrees F at= inches of vacum, mychart says water will evaporate [boil]at = degrees F at 10 mm of mercury 2mm mercury is approx26" = think, your dip tank would guess]chris smithporter me = NunleySent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:11 = Rod Makers List ServeSubject: My problems with = impregnating. blank I made, you can see an image of it at ht= . If you'll look, I also broke the blank to see how it would = section was heat treated exactly the same way i heat treat all = blanks, and I had a junk blank in the garage that was broken... = (and the many others I have destroyed) all broke in long = was relatively clean, with the splinters being short fibers and = on the blank in the varnish for 30 minutes, then released the = and then put the contents of the tube under 30 psi of pressure = way through, but the breaking characteristics kinda bothered = Just thought those of you trying this should see what happened = up, and the varnish impreg process did NOT affect the glue joint = of the peelings are laying beside the broken blank in the = only between the glue joints... not through them. varnish/poly might react totally different. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0681_01BF66A5.8887C760-- from plaisanc@pacifier.com Mon Jan 24 20:07:25 2000 Subject: re.mr. ed hartzell boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6695.E32E8420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6695.E32E8420 sorry it has taken me so long to reply,I have been a little under the =weather lately.I really appreciate your offer to help,and your =experience will be priceless.i will give you a call when I feel a little =better or give me a call at 360-887-3093.thanks again rob plaisance ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6695.E32E8420 sorry it has taken me so long to = a little under the weather lately.I really appreciate your offer to = your experience will be priceless.i will give you a call when I feel a = plaisance ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6695.E32E8420-- from cadams46@juno.com Mon Jan 24 21:14:51 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswLi+ictWXR3fmHwGAXn99/yLQ2HLuclruw==" 22:10:25 EST Subject: Re: Varnishing Methods Thanks Thanks for all the replies. I guess I just figured that that little bitof heat might cause the varnish to sag a bit or melt. I appreicateeveryone responding so soon. Thanks, had best go, hope I am not wastingtoo much precious space and no one will bi$^# when they have to deletethis. (My poor attempt at sarcasm)C.R. Adams .C.R. AdamsTry using an alcohol burner, it burns clean.Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Varnishing method Dave,Don't you have trouble singeng the silk winding with the blankfinished?seems to me the lamp would melt or blacken the finish a bit. Justcourious because I've been thinking about this method. ThanksC.R. Adams from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 24 21:29:46 2000 Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:29:35 -0800 Subject: Re: I goofed and need some suggestions Doc,When I goof like that, and it happens about once a rod, I try toreplicate what I did with the other sections. I suspect you rough planed,heattreated, then final planed. That's a good sequence for now.One more thing - you might just use a wooden dowel to wrap the newsection against. The straight piece of steel will hold a lot of heat. Harry from listreader@codemarine.com Mon Jan 24 22:40:03 2000 bycodemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Remember your Web Site??!, was RE: munro rod co I also had trouble communicating with Munro Rod Company. I found theirweb site and wasvery impressed by its look and feel and the ability to order on- line. Theycame highlyrecommended, too, and I know Jon Lintvet has built some outstandingforms. But,unfortunately, I could not get any response whatsoever to repeated Weborders, emails,and phone mail. Nothing. Nada. Zip. They apparently did not and do not wantmy business. RANT MODE ONAs a developer of Web pages and the owner of a business myself (not FFrelated), perhapsI should take this opportunity to remind you professionals that once youestablish a webpresence, you need to remember to keep those pages current and YOU NEEDTO PROVIDEFEEDBACK WHEN PEOPLE PLACE AN ORDER! Easier said than done, I know,but still... If I hada dime for every site that has something dated 1997 that says "we'll beupdating thissite every week or so..." with no more content after that, I could retire from my day joband build rods full time. If you don't wanna bother with Web or emailorders and youdon't have time to keep the Web content current then just take your pagedown. But don'twaste people's time and don't let their emails or Web orders go unnoticed.RANT MODE OFF That said, in my search for rodmaking tools and supplies I've found thatwith fewexceptions the vendors I've contacted have been an absolute pleasure towork with viaemail, web, and/or phone. These folks have offered me their unsolicitedadvice andmentorship, without me even having to ask for it. I have no financialinterest in theseindividuals (other than the fact that I've sent some of them money), butthey deservekudos for their service. Here they are: Lon Blauvelt (planing forms)Frank Armbruster, dba Colorado Bootstrap (planing forms)Tony Young (ferrules)Bailey Woods, dba Classic Sports Enterprises (ferrules)Jeff Wagner (various rodbuilding tools)Mike McCoy, dba SnakeBrand (tip-tops and guides)Charles Demarest (bamboo)Nyatex (epoxy)Darrell Lee (various and sundry items including silk line)Utica Thread Company (00 silk line and glace cotton thread)Dan Lanier at REC Components (reel seats, etc) I'm still working on my first set of bamboo rods (I have several blanksmade but nothingfinished yet), so I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue about the pros andcons of thesefolks' products, but I certainly have been impressed with theircommitment to customerservice and a pleasant sales experience. Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message----- muscade.noix@wanadoo.fr Subject: munro rod co dear list members:I have difficulty receiving purchase from munro rod.Still in business ? Fabrice. from utzerath@execpc.com Tue Jan 25 06:16:50 2000 Subject: Re: Dickerson 4th rod Sorry, Tom, I really thought you meant 175 C. You see, I like to re-heat at300 Fahrenheit after gluing (URAC) to remove moisture that I appliedremoving excess glue; so I thought your 140 degree bake was a similarattempt. Anyway, I spent about three interesting, but not-too-productive, daystryingto tune up my TPF vertical oven. Here's what I found (others' results mayvary). I placed three thermistors in the inner tube so I could read baketemps accurately at the top middle and bottom of the strip. I also triedscrap strips at various times and temperatures. I needed about 900 watts and 1.5 inches (thickness after winding it on) ofFiberglas insulation covered with plastic, to seal in the air, to get uparound 360 degrees Fahrenheit. I used a paint-removing heat gun and a 20amp variable voltage transformer to regulate wattage. The transformerallows you to raise the wattage about 25 percent above themanufacturer'srating with some undetermined shortening of the life of the gun. Sealing air leaks at the top (muffler cement works well) is essential. Trying to regulate heat by restricting the air flow hoses the temperatureuniformity from top to bottom. Keep as much air flowing as possible. Extending the outlet pipe about a foot helps for some reason to keep thetemperature uniform. Similarly shielding the inner pipe from the air right from the gun with apiece of sheet metal helps keep the heat gun from overheating the top end. Everything suddenly cools down about 20 degrees when you introduce abundleo' strips. Compensate accordingly. Toning of cane occurs at 350 or higher (20 to 40 minutes). Your resultsmaydiffer. Everyone who made theirs for $2 and scrap parts in an evening, I envy. from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Jan 25 06:45:53 2000 Subject: Re: Fishing Around/In Smokies John, There is a fly shop in Banner Elk and another in Cherokee. There are on theweb, but the names escape me. Also a large shop in Atlanta that couldhelp. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fishing Around/In Smokies Opportunities abound in the Smokies! What kind of trip are youinterested in? Do you want to hike in, fish, and hike out in the sameday? Do you want backpacking trips? Figure out what kind of trip thatyou are looking for and I may be able to point you in the rightdirection.A good place to start is to contact a Great Smokey Mountain ParkBackcountry office. The phone number for the office at the ElkmontCampground backcountry office is 423- 436-1271. Try during thedaylighthours. The Rangers will point you in the right direction for maps andinfo! John Collier wrote: Does anyone know were a person can hike to a good trout streamin/aroundtheSmokies? I've been trying to get some information on the CherokeeIndianReservation with no luck. I'm looking forward to getting a trout on myfirst bamboo! ThanksJohn Collier PS Since this is a little bit off topic, please respond off list.Thanks again. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 25 10:41:42 2000 Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:41:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Remember your Web Site??!, was RE: munro rod co Steve Zimmerman wrote: I also had trouble communicating with Munro Rod Company. I found theirweb site and wasvery impressed by its look and feel and the ability to order on- line. Theycame highlyrecommended, too, and I know Jon Lintvet has built some outstandingforms. But,unfortunately, I could not get any response whatsoever to repeated Weborders, emails,and phone mail. Nothing. Nada. Zip. They apparently did not and do not wantmy business. What about it?? Any of you easterners (or others) heard from Jon lately? Harry Boyd --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jan 25 11:13:12 2000 9:14:36 PST Subject: Wet Strips and Heat Treating Hi, I'm interested in some more information about how soaking strips prior to planing and the heat treating process is all reconciled. Is heat treating done prior to soaking the strips or does heat treating follow the final planing process? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jan 25 11:19:24 2000 JAA00355 ESMTP; Tue, 25Jan 2000 09:18:53 -0800 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Remember your Web Site??!, was RE: munro rod co jon sent a email to the list saying that he had graduated from college andwas in theprocess of moving his business. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@3g.quik.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 8:40 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Remember your Web Site??!, was RE: munro rod co Steve Zimmerman wrote: I also had trouble communicating with Munro Rod Company. I foundtheir web site andwas very impressed by its look and feel and the ability to order on- line.They camehighly recommended, too, and I know Jon Lintvet has built someoutstanding forms. But,unfortunately, I could not get any response whatsoever to repeated Weborders, emails,and phone mail. Nothing. Nada. Zip. They apparently did not and do not wantmy business. What about it?? Any of you easterners (or others) heard from Jonlately? Harry Boyd --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Jan 25 11:20:08 2000 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:27:38 -0600 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:19:35 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 25 Jan2000 11:19:35-0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Tue Jan 2511:19:34 2000 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) listreader@codemarine.com Subject: RE: Remember your Web Site??!, was RE: munro rod co John has moved and started a full time job. He's running Munro on the side. I ordered over $1000 worth from him over the summer. I think I hit him ata bad time while his stock was in storage. But I had too a lot of troublewith unreturned phone calls, products that were not up to his advertisedquality, and one item that was never shipped. I ended up returning everything -after almost 4 months of bending over backwards for him. I heard from a fewothers who were very happy with him, so I'll bet that the new job has taken itstoll. I believe his intentions are good. I'd like to see him succeed because Ibelieve he wants to put out a quality product at a competitive price. But he's justout of college and apparently still has a lot to learn about running a business. I've moved on to more reliable sources (Goldenwitch, REC). I had to paymore, but I'm finally building rods instead of waiting on deliveries - money wellspent. So, I hate to say it, but he needs to get his act together or move on. Myboys wouldhad had a couple of bamboo rods for Christmas were I not so patient withhim. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 25 11:38:38 2000 Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:38:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Wet Strips and Heat Treating CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Hi, I'm interested in some more information about how soaking strips priortoplaning and the heat treating process is all reconciled. Is heat treatingdone prior to soaking the strips or does heat treating follow the finalplaning process? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris,John Bokstrom is THE MAN on this. Maybe John will jump in. I soakstrips overnight, right after splitting. It makes heat straightening andpressing nodes seem downright simple. And if you've never rough planedwetstrips, you don't know what you're missing. I can take .015"-.020" off ineach pass, and never lift a node. After splitting, I can heat straighten,press nodes, and rough out to untapered strips a 3piece 2 tip rod in about 2hours.I then heat treat at 180*F for about three hours, and at 375*F for8-15 minutes, depending on the color I'm looking for.Final planing comes after heat treating. Give it a try on a test strip or two. You'll like it. Harry BTW, I just soak the strips in capped 2" PVC pipe filled with water. I doadd a teaspoon of bleach to prevent any mold from re-activating. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 25 11:38:55 2000 Subject: Reels for bamboo rods This is slightly off topic but I think everyone would be interested. Iam looking for reels with a classic look for my rods (Bamboo) . Cananyone tell me about a reel that will lock good on bamboo and not costme an arm and a leg? (5wt and under) Shawn from flyman35@home.com Tue Jan 25 12:01:04 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP Subject: unsubscribe from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan 25 12:04:58 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Articles on bamboo rod making, restoration, collecting wanted... Hi Gang, I'm in the process of doing some major upgrades to my website... I plan onadding a lot of useful content for the bamboo rod owner, collector, fisherand so any of you that would like to contribute an article(s) to my websiteI would be very appreciative. I know a lot of you out there love to write(witness the list) so put some of those creative juices to test and sendmesome articles. I'm looking for articles on collecting, restoring, silk flyline care and use, varnishing, fishing cane whatever... I'm still evaluating web hosts so I haven't picked one yet, but the leadingcontender will give me 100 megs so I'll have plenty of space...Contributorscan have a link to their site or email... I'll develop something nice sothat it can benefit you as well if you wish... I have Michael Sinclair doing an article on the care and feeding of a canerod to kick things off... So come on guys, I need your help... http://bamboorods.homepage.com Thanks, Darrell from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Jan 25 12:13:52 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods I was wondering what the advantages and disadvantages were between 5and 6strip rod. The 6 strip rod seem to be preferred even though there is oneless strip to be made for a 5 strip rod. What are your thoughts concerningthis?Ernie Harrison from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Jan 25 12:14:43 2000 Subject: munro rod co I just talked to Jon this morning about an order placed in early Decemberand for some reason never sent. He sounded like he's still in business, I'lllet you know if I get the order. But it has been difficult to get aresponse, and I don't know why. Barry -Original Message----- Subject: Re: Remember your Web Site??!, was RE: munro rod co Steve Zimmerman wrote: I also had trouble communicating with Munro Rod Company. I found theirwebsite and was very impressed by its look and feel and the ability to orderon-line. They came highly recommended, too, and I know Jon Lintvet hasbuiltsome outstanding forms. But, unfortunately, I could not get any responsewhatsoever to repeated Web orders, emails, and phone mail. Nothing. Nada.Zip. They apparently did not and do not want my business. What about it?? Any of you easterners (or others) heard from Jon lately? Harry Boyd --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 25 12:15:13 2000 Subject: Re: Wet Strips and Heat Treating Chris,I am kind of new to this but this is how I did my last eight blanks.I did some straightening and flattening nodes with wet strips. It seems todopretty well. It just depends on how I feel, if I want to take the time tosoakthe strips. It seems I can do them just as well dry. In fact I just finishedstraightening a set dry. I have them soaking for the next step.I do my rough beveling wet. it is so much easier. I find that to do any goodIhave to soak the strips at least a full day or longer. The wet strips planelike butter. Don't seem to get any node pull outs either. After I have the60*bevel I let the strips dry for a couple of days, then bind them and heattreatat 375 F. After heat treating I do the final taper dry. This may not be rightbut it works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Hi, I'm interested in some more information about how soaking strips priortoplaning and the heat treating process is all reconciled. Is heat treatingdone prior to soaking the strips or does heat treating follow the finalplaning process? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Jan 25 12:37:06 2000 Subject: Dickerson 4th rod Hi all, Thanks for all your helpfull responses . I will do some tweaking to the oven and get back to you guys. Tom nigro from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan 25 12:51:59 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Restoring polishing NS reel seats I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat and ferrulestobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about those miraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jan 25 12:54:33 2000 Subject: BFR mag. Howdy from snowed-in (15") north central N. C. A while back, someone on the List said the new issue of BFR was stackedupon their premises. I sent email to them 1/17 asking for forecast ofmailingdate. No response. Maybe I shoulda visited their website before sendingthis to see if there's a "Blast" message with ship-date. Anybody know?On the positive side, I only sent $24.00 for ONE year.Brrrrrr.Ed from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 25 13:00:39 2000 with ESMTP id ;Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:00:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell, I was going to tell you to use the Simichrome. Is there anything outthere that does a finer polishing job? If so, I'd like to know too. Thanks, Dennis Darrell A. Lee wrote: I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat andferrules tobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about those miraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 25 13:06:20 2000 Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:05:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell,REC sells a nifty little cloth that works wonders on nickel silver.Ithink it comes in 2 grades.,Shawn "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat andferrules tobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about those miraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 25 13:15:39 2000 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell,A buffing wheel with red rouge works great. So does Flitz metalpolish. Maybe the easiest thing to use though is the Nickel Silverpolishingcloths that REC sells. I use a similar cloth that my wife bought for hersterling silver, and it works great too. Harry "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat andferrules tobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about those miraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mark_lang@tnb.com Tue Jan 25 13:18:54 2000 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:19:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Wet Strips and Heat Treating Tony,Are the strips tapered (over sized) in the wet before you heat treat them? Have youtryed this? Tony Spezio 01/25/00 12:11PM >>>Chris,I am kind of new to this but this is how I did my last eight blanks.I did some straightening and flattening nodes with wet strips. It seems todopretty well. It just depends on how I feel, if I want to take the time tosoakthe strips. It seems I can do them just as well dry. In fact I just finishedstraightening a set dry. I have them soaking for the next step.I do my rough beveling wet. it is so much easier. I find that to do any goodIhave to soak the strips at least a full day or longer. The wet strips planelike butter. Don't seem to get any node pull outs either. After I have the60*bevel I let the strips dry for a couple of days, then bind them and heattreatat 375 F. After heat treating I do the final taper dry. This may not be rightbut it works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Hi, I'm interested in some more information about how soaking strips priortoplaning and the heat treating process is all reconciled. Is heat treatingdone prior to soaking the strips or does heat treating follow the finalplaning process? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jan 25 13:33:38 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AC187046014E; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:40:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Reels for bamboo rods Shawn,Some of the skeleton reels, especially the brass 60 yd. PfluegerProgress, look great with bamboo.I use mostly various sizes of early Medalists, a rubber-sided Delite,and two sizes of the Johnson Magnetic.You can get the small Progress in antique stores or ebay for $10-40 U.S.(The junkshop on the left side of the road just before Lawrencetown Beachmay have one.)Best regards,Reed Shawn Pineo wrote: This is slightly off topic but I think everyone would be interested. Iam looking for reels with a classic look for my rods (Bamboo) . Cananyone tell me about a reel that will lock good on bamboo and not costme an arm and a leg? (5wt and under) Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jan 25 13:35:47 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:25:54 -0600 Subject: Re: BFR mag. I ordered all the back issues,(2) with an $18 check ! Still no back issues,although they did send the Sept/Dec. 1998 issue, when I subscribed ! This was before Christmas ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: BFR mag. Howdy from snowed-in (15") north central N. C. A while back, someone on the List said the new issue of BFR was stackedupon their premises. I sent email to them 1/17 asking for forecast ofmailingdate. No response. Maybe I shoulda visited their website before sendingthis to see if there's a "Blast" message with ship-date. Anybody know?On the positive side, I only sent $24.00 for ONE year.Brrrrrr.Ed from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 25 14:35:13 2000 Subject: Re: Wet Strips and Heat Treating Mark,I am able to bevel the strips so that there is not much to take off for thefinal taper.I thinkSteve S. tapers them to +. 020 or .030 over and then heat treats them. Hedoes his wettapering onwood forms. I don't think I want wet strips on my metal forms. Mybeveling rig is madeof wood.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mark Lang wrote: Tony,Are the strips tapered (over sized) in the wet before you heat treatthem? Have youtryed this? Tony Spezio 01/25/00 12:11PM >>>Chris,I am kind of new to this but this is how I did my last eight blanks.I did some straightening and flattening nodes with wet strips. It seemsto dopretty well. It just depends on how I feel, if I want to take the time tosoakthe strips. It seems I can do them just as well dry. In fact I just finishedstraightening a set dry. I have them soaking for the next step.I do my rough beveling wet. it is so much easier. I find that to do anygood Ihave to soak the strips at least a full day or longer. The wet stripsplanelike butter. Don't seem to get any node pull outs either. After I have the60*bevel I let the strips dry for a couple of days, then bind them and heattreatat 375 F. After heat treating I do the final taper dry. This may not berightbut it works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Hi, I'm interested in some more information about how soaking strips priortoplaning and the heat treating process is all reconciled. Is heat treatingdone prior to soaking the strips or does heat treating follow the finalplaning process? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Jan 25 14:44:32 2000 Subject: Re: 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods I was wondering what the advantages and disadvantages were between 5and 6strip rod. The 6 strip rod seem to be preferred even though there is oneless strip to be made for a 5 strip rod. What are your thoughtsconcerningthis? The main advantage is a 5 strip is a stiffer, faster rod, everything else beingequal. The apex of the pentagon gives a nice backbone to quicken up theaction. The main disadvantage is because the strip is not an equilateral triangleyou need two planing forms. You plane one side of a strip on one form,and the other side of the strip on the other form. Unless you have a Morgan Handmill, then it's just a cutter holder change. On the other hand, the action of a 5 strip rod is really nice, in myopinion better than a hex. Even better than a penta is a quad....Darryl from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 25 14:59:37 2000 Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:58:54 -0400 Subject: Re: 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods Darryl,Speaking of the Morgan handmill, do you know if you can do quads onit?? DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: . Unless you have a Morgan Handmill, then it's just a cutter holderchange. On the other hand, the action of a 5 strip rod is really nice, in myopinion better than a hex. Even better than a penta is a quad....Darryl from listreader@codemarine.com Tue Jan 25 15:18:18 2000 Subject: Removing reel seats? Hey, folks. As I've mentioned in previous posts, I've got blanks made andamjust now beginning the process of converting those little sticks into flyrods. Since this is my first time, I'm a bit wary about the possibility that myfirst rods will get sets, delaminate, or just plain break in half. I'mplanning to use heat-sensitive glue for the ferrules, but what about thereel seat? Should my first rod break, I'd rather not be out the $30-$50 forthe reel seat. So, what can I do so that I'll be able to remove it? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell,A buffing wheel with red rouge works great. So does Flitz metalpolish. Maybe the easiest thing to use though is the Nickel Silverpolishingcloths that REC sells. I use a similar cloth that my wife bought forhersterling silver, and it works great too. Harry "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat andferrules tobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about thosemiraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jan 25 15:20:08 2000 13:28:28 PST Subject: Looking for 6'6" to 6'9" 3 wt. taper Does anyone have a suggestion for a 3 wt. taper that is in the 6'6" to 6'9" range? I mean preferably a classic taper from one of the long time famous (probably dead) makers that has been made public via the web or through a book. I'm willing to buy one of the current books by Ray Gould, Jack Howell, or George Maurer/Bernard Elser if there are some tapers ofthis nature in print and you can refer me to the right book. Thanks for yourhelp. Also, for those of you who have made the Garrison 193 taper, can you giveany feedback on it's action and characteristics with a 3 wt. line? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 25 15:59:10 2000 Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:57:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Looking for 6'6" to 6'9" 3 wt. taper Christopher,It doesn't quite match your specs but it is CLASSIC!! I havethe taper for a Leonard Catskill 7'0" 2wt if you want it.(fast dry action), Shawn CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Does anyone have a suggestion for a 3 wt. taper that is in the 6'6" to6'9" range? I mean preferably a classic taper from one of the long timefamous (probably dead) makers that has been made public via the web orthrough a book. I'm willing to buy one of the current books by Ray Gould,Jack Howell, or George Maurer/Bernard Elser if there are some tapers ofthisnature in print and you can refer me to the right book. Thanks for yourhelp. Also, for those of you who have made the Garrison 193 taper, can yougive anyfeedback on it's action and characteristics with a 3 wt. line? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from brewer@teleport.com Tue Jan 25 16:27:37 2000 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0QgYeJ; Tue Jan 2514:27:20 2000 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats I second that on the buffing wheel and rouge, Harry. A fellow named BillBaldwin taught me that trick a couple of years ago and I don't think youcando much better! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell,A buffing wheel with red rouge works great. So does Flitz metalpolish. Maybe the easiest thing to use though is the Nickel Silverpolishingcloths that REC sells. I use a similar cloth that my wife bought for hersterling silver, and it works great too. Harry "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat andferrulestobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about those miraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jan 25 16:34:50 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:25:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats I keep Semichrome in the shop for general polishing. If I want a really highshine, then it's Gorham's Silver Polish. It's meant to shine silver, withouttaking much off, for obvious reasons ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell, I was going to tell you to use the Simichrome. Is there anything outthere that does a finer polishing job? If so, I'd like to know too. Thanks, Dennis Darrell A. Lee wrote: I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat andferrules tobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about those miraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from channer@outerbounds.net Tue Jan 25 18:05:40 2000 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP id;Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:05:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats At 10:45 AM 01/25/2000 -0800, Darrell A. Lee wrote:I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat and ferrulestobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about those miraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com Darrell;I use Finese-It 11 rubbing compound to polish blemishes in the final coatof varnish and it works really well on all kinds of metal,too.John from channer@outerbounds.net Tue Jan 25 18:10:42 2000 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP id;Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:10:56 -0700 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Removing reel seats? At 04:23 PM 01/25/2000 -0500, List Reader wrote:Hey, folks. As I've mentioned in previous posts, I've got blanks made andamjust now beginning the process of converting those little sticks into flyrods. Since this is my first time, I'm a bit wary about the possibility that myfirst rods will get sets, delaminate, or just plain break in half. I'mplanning to use heat-sensitive glue for the ferrules, but what about thereel seat? Should my first rod break, I'd rather not be out the $30-$50forthe reel seat. So, what can I do so that I'll be able to remove it? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com Steve;Just tack it in place with the same hot melt glu you use on theferrules,slide the wood filler on then glue it to the cane at the very end,then do the hardware.John from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Jan 25 19:25:35 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: Wet Strips and Heat Treating One nice thing about planing with wet strips on wooden forms is that youdon't have anyproblems withthe strips slipping in the form. With the plane gliding along the wet stripand thetendency for thestrip to adhere to the wooden forms I no longer use any form of handprotection and thestrips stayput. from the time I split until I heat treat, my strips stay in the bath unlessI am workingon them. Ihave been planing to plus thirty on the butts and plus twenty on the tips. Ithen allowthem to dry I have been considering going in a little closer on my tolerances. I haveonly noticed.002 or .003loss in size after heat treating. I have seen no deleterious effects fromwet planing andit suremakes the process a lot easier. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dpeaston@wzrd.com Tue Jan 25 21:27:30 2000 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Wet Strips and Heat Treating At 07:26 PM 1/25/2000 -0800, Steve Trauthwein wrote:One nice thing about planing with wet strips on wooden forms is that youdon't have any problems withthe strips slipping in the form. With the plane gliding along the wetstrip and the tendency for thestrip to adhere to the wooden forms I no longer use any form of handprotection and the strips stayput. from the time I split until I heat treat, my strips stay in the bathunless I am working on them. Ihave been planing to plus thirty on the butts and plus twenty on the tips.I then allow them to dry I have been considering going in a little closer on my tolerances. I haveonly noticed .002 or .003loss in size after heat treating. I have seen no deleterious effects fromwet planing and it suremakes the process a lot easier. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Anyone ever try to do nodeless wet? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Jan 25 21:40:20 2000 Subject: 6ft9in 3wt Chris,It seems to me about a week ago soomone on the list was building thomas 3wt. I heard that they are a sweet rod. maybe he is listening ,Iwould like to hear about it.tom n. from cadams46@juno.com Tue Jan 25 22:03:34 2000 "PzbuwhbL1S9UF2xXfTpswFlh4u+Yc2Ut4nJP+byJZgyS6zEUEuRhyg==" 23:03:21 EST Subject: Wet Strips and heat treating How long do you guys soak the strips? ThanksC.R. Adams from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Jan 25 23:06:12 2000 Subject: Re: 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods Hi Ernie,The advantage of the pentagonal rod is that it is stiffer than a hexagonalrod of the same cross sectional area. The six strip rod is easier to makesince only a single tapered groove is needed in the planing form whereas apentagonal rod strip requires a form with both a left hand and right handgroove.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods I was wondering what the advantages and disadvantages were between 5and 6strip rod. The 6 strip rod seem to be preferred even though there is oneless strip to be made for a 5 strip rod. What are your thoughtsconcerningthis?Ernie Harrison from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jan 25 23:24:56 2000 Subject: Re: Reels for bamboo rods I like the Hardy lightweight series. The Featherweight and the LRH areparticularly nice on the 7 and 7 1/2ft rods I use.Steve This is slightly off topic but I think everyone would be interested. Iam looking for reels with a classic look for my rods (Bamboo) . Cananyone tell me about a reel that will lock good on bamboo and not costme an arm and a leg? (5wt and under) Shawn from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jan 25 23:27:52 2000 Subject: Re: 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods You should read Garrison's observations and then search the archives ofthislist. Make your own decisions, there are lots of opinions on this one.Steve I was wondering what the advantages and disadvantages were between 5and 6strip rod. The 6 strip rod seem to be preferred even though there is oneless strip to be made for a 5 strip rod. What are your thoughtsconcerningthis?Ernie Harrison from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jan 25 23:35:10 2000 Subject: Re: Removing reel seats? Steve,Have more confidence. Assume your rods won't break. They probably willbegreat. I use 5-minute epoxy on the seats and have been able to remove acouple that I wanted to change the fillers on.Steve Hey, folks. As I've mentioned in previous posts, I've got blanks made andamjust now beginning the process of converting those little sticks into flyrods. Since this is my first time, I'm a bit wary about the possibility that myfirst rods will get sets, delaminate, or just plain break in half. I'mplanning to use heat-sensitive glue for the ferrules, but what about thereel seat? Should my first rod break, I'd rather not be out the $30-$50forthe reel seat. So, what can I do so that I'll be able to remove it? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Sent: 1/25/00 2:14 PMSubject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell,A buffing wheel with red rouge works great. So does Flitz metalpolish. Maybe the easiest thing to use though is the Nickel Silverpolishingcloths that REC sells. I use a similar cloth that my wife bought forhersterling silver, and it works great too. Harry "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: I wanted to know what others use to polish up a NS reel seat andferrules tobring it back to a nice shiny looking finish... How about thosemiraclemetal cleaners... I currently use Mothers aluminum and magnesium polish and alsoSimichromewith good results but it takes some time to polish up... Anybody got afaster and easier product they found that works for them? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Jan 25 23:57:17 2000 (rperry@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Re: Reels for bamboo rods Hi Shawn, What's the going rate for an arm and a leg? (matched set I presume, L morevaluable?). Regards, BobFly Supplies PS. Bougle Mk IV ain't too shabby looking. On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Shawn Pineo wrote: This is slightly off topic but I think everyone would be interested. Iam looking for reels with a classic look for my rods (Bamboo) . Cananyone tell me about a reel that will lock good on bamboo and not costme an arm and a leg? (5wt and under) Shawn from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan 26 07:21:56 2000 0600 Subject: Re: Wet Strips and heat treating I soak my strips over 24 hours.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Chase R Adams wrote: How long do you guys soak the strips? ThanksC.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 26 07:44:50 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:35:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Reels for bamboo rods Back in the 1970's, I think, Heddon had a very inexpensive take off on aHardy reel, of some sort. I picked up 3 - at a local store for under$10/ea., new ! I love fine tools and such, but these reels handle most fishI will encounter ! They are very nice looking too ! I'd love to have many of the $300 - $500 beauties, if nothing more than forthe quality craftsmanship ! But, unless you are going for steelhead, ortarpon...... ??? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reels for bamboo rods Hi Shawn, What's the going rate for an arm and a leg? (matched set I presume, Lmorevaluable?). Regards, BobFly Supplies PS. Bougle Mk IV ain't too shabby looking. On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Shawn Pineo wrote: This is slightly off topic but I think everyone would be interested. Iam looking for reels with a classic look for my rods (Bamboo) . Cananyone tell me about a reel that will lock good on bamboo and not costme an arm and a leg? (5wt and under) Shawn from BigJohn47@aol.com Wed Jan 26 07:48:48 2000 Subject: nymph rod hey guys & galslooking for a good 8 foot rod taper 5 or 6 wt. that can handle weightednypmh fishing. thanks john from ctracy@ckan.com Wed Jan 26 09:16:31 2000 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:34:19 -0600 Subject: Tip top question I'm getting ready to order some of the components for my first rod andhave a question about tip top sizing. Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? TIA Chuck from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 26 09:28:14 2000 Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:28:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Tip top question Chuck Tracy wrote: I'm getting ready to order some of the components for my first rod andhave a question about tip top sizing. Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? TIA Chuck Chuck,Tiptops are sized in 64ths of an inch. 3/64, 3.5/64, and so on. Ifyou divide 64 by 15.6, you get 4.10 -- therefore, you would probably need asize 4 tiptop. I would suggest buying a handful, and trying several.Sizing never seems to be perfect, and one size 4 often fits better thananother.Hope this helps,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Jan 26 09:40:01 2000 Subject: Re: Tip top question Tip tops, as in ferrules, are measured in 64ths. One little wrinkle inmeasuring tip tops is unless you want to round off your tip to fit it,you should measure apex to apex, not flat to flat. Nickel silverwinding checks are the same way - measure apex to apex for thesize.Darryl Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? from djk762@hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 09:43:23 2000 Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:42:50 PST Subject: 6'9" 3-wt. Chris- I built a F.E. Thomas 6'8" 2-P 3-wt. 11/64F taper from the Maurer/Elser book. This is very similar to the taper in Howell's book.Terrific rod. My version throws a 4 wt.best. On the fast side. Very easy to cast 10'-40'.A few guys on the list have made this rod. All have liked it.Can't wait to get into the Sierra's with this rod this summer. David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Jan 26 10:02:55 2000 Subject: Re: Tip top question The tip tops are sized in # of 64th of an inch. So if you know the diameterof the tip multiply that by 64 and that gives you the 64th equilivant of thedecimal measurement. In your case: .064 X 64 = 4.096 So you are slightly over a size 4 tiptop. Try a 4 and a 4.5 and see whichfitsbetter. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tip top question I'm getting ready to order some of the components for my first rod andhave a question about tip top sizing. Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? TIA Chuck from gabriele.moultrie@multimedica.de Wed Jan 26 14:24:07 2000 200020:19:45 UT Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:23:16 +0200 fwproxy.multimedica.de 26 Jan 200020:19:00 UT 194.138.18.99 (NortonAntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:30:520000 (GMT) fwcommunity.multimedica.de 26 Jan 200020:18:59 UT Subject: "O" Rings Hi, Firstly thankyou for the information on wet strips, a great help. Going through another back issue of the Planing Form (no i'm not the newsales manager) I noticed an article on a way to "bind" a glued blankwith rubber "o" rings instead of using the usual string or whatever.The writer wrote that he uses rubber rings mounted on a hollow brasstube which he then slips over the freshley glued blank and at a numberof places down the blank he slides a rubber "o" ring off the brass tubeand onto the splines which, once dry, need no further straightening. Has anyone used this method? As a boy I used to work on farms in South West England and they usedrubber rings and a set of "pliers" with four prongs to spread the ringsto castrate young bulls (the ring was left in place until the bullsballs dropped off). My father, an aircraft engineer.....no, no, notwhat you're thinking..... says they used a similar idea for strappingairplane electrical cables together. Does anyone use these "pliers" to apply the "o" rings? Thankyou Stuart from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Jan 26 14:49:14 2000 Subject: Re: Tip top question Hi Chuck,If your rod tip measures 0.064" across the flats then it should be 0.074"across the corners. The tip that will fit this the best is going to be a 41/2 size which is about 0.070" in the bore. When fitting the tip top removejust a bit from the corners of the hex till the tip top slides on snuglythen glue it in place.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tip top question I'm getting ready to order some of the components for my first rod andhave a question about tip top sizing. Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? TIA Chuck from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Jan 26 14:57:02 2000 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: "O" Rings No , but I tried sections of "shrink tubing" and it did not work well atall. There needs to be pressure all the way along the strips not just inspots.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: "O" Rings Hi, Firstly thankyou for the information on wet strips, a great help. Going through another back issue of the Planing Form (no i'm not the newsales manager) I noticed an article on a way to "bind" a glued blankwith rubber "o" rings instead of using the usual string or whatever.The writer wrote that he uses rubber rings mounted on a hollow brasstube which he then slips over the freshley glued blank and at a numberof places down the blank he slides a rubber "o" ring off the brass tubeand onto the splines which, once dry, need no further straightening. Has anyone used this method? As a boy I used to work on farms in South West England and they usedrubber rings and a set of "pliers" with four prongs to spread the ringsto castrate young bulls (the ring was left in place until the bullsballs dropped off). My father, an aircraft engineer.....no, no, notwhat you're thinking..... says they used a similar idea for strappingairplane electrical cables together. Does anyone use these "pliers" to apply the "o" rings? Thankyou Stuart from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Jan 26 14:57:34 2000 Subject: Re: Terry A. 3B67D76DDECAC6C8349D4FAB" --------------3B67D76DDECAC6C8349D4FAB Ken,That was not what I had in mind. Where I come from "tackle" is also aslang term for certain anatomical parts!I am sure another collage would be amusing but I do not think it wouldbe appreciated by the serious artistes of the list.Terry Ken Cole wrote: off and sculpt another David but this time give him some bettertackle! > Hey, Terry You mean something like this? [Image] --------------3B67D76DDECAC6C8349D4FAB FEEA10A263279DD5797F195C" --------------FEEA10A263279DD5797F195C Ken, also a slang term for certain anatomical parts! Terry Ken Cole wrote: on where Michelangelo left off and sculpt another David but this time givehim some better tackle! > Hey, Terry You mean something like this? from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 26 16:46:43 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:46:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Tip top question This is a puzzle for me too ! I ordered one of each size tip top fromCabelas, but there was no spec. on what the female portion that has to fitthe rod is. Are you supposed to ask for the I.D. when your order a certainsize of loop ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tip top question I'm getting ready to order some of the components for my first rod andhave a question about tip top sizing. Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? TIA Chuck from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Wed Jan 26 16:54:04 2000 0500 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell, Just for fun, I tried some 3-M Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound (Autofinishing store) Part No. 05973 . It seem to work great. Dave from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jan 26 17:04:24 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:01:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Dave, and anyone else interested..When I make my new NS hardware, I make my final cut with a carbideinserted parting tool... this leaves a pretty good finish... then sand it onthe mandrel still with 1500 grit, then use Dupont #7 auto polish, thenfinish off with 3M Perfect-it II... Shines like a Proof Quarter... And sameproceedure works equally as well on the Nickel Silver and the 7075Aluminum. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Restoring polishing NS reel seats Darrell, Just for fun, I tried some 3-M Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound (Autofinishing store) Part No. 05973 . It seem to work great. Dave from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 26 17:18:12 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:18:42 -0600 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: "O" Rings When repairing some separated sections last month, I just used a series ofrubber bands, looped around several times, and slipped down to about 1"spacing. I was testing the Pro-Bond P-U glue, when doing this. I did 2 buttsections, 2 mids, and 4 tips. One butt I cross wrapped, and the other usedthe rubber bands. I'm no pro, but I can't tell the difference, and there areno glue lines. When I get the ferrules made, and do some casting, then I'llknow ! BTW, the brass tubing idea is a good one, as the edges of the cane stripscut the rubber pretty often, when sliding them down ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: "O" Rings Hi, Firstly thankyou for the information on wet strips, a great help. Going through another back issue of the Planing Form (no i'm not the newsales manager) I noticed an article on a way to "bind" a glued blankwith rubber "o" rings instead of using the usual string or whatever.The writer wrote that he uses rubber rings mounted on a hollow brasstube which he then slips over the freshley glued blank and at a numberof places down the blank he slides a rubber "o" ring off the brass tubeand onto the splines which, once dry, need no further straightening. Has anyone used this method? As a boy I used to work on farms in South West England and they usedrubber rings and a set of "pliers" with four prongs to spread the ringsto castrate young bulls (the ring was left in place until the bullsballs dropped off). My father, an aircraft engineer.....no, no, notwhat you're thinking..... says they used a similar idea for strappingairplane electrical cables together. Does anyone use these "pliers" to apply the "o" rings? Thankyou Stuart from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Jan 26 17:21:49 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. ABECA41FBCA09A823AC7A04F" --------------ABECA41FBCA09A823AC7A04F I am not sure your theory is correct. Vacuum is used to dry verydelicate items including flowers. If the water boiled inside a plant ina vacuum it would end up being cooked and not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 in hgand during the experiments I carried out the pump could notdifferentiate between air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck bothout!Terry chris & annmarie smith wrote: bob,i suspect what is happening here is that when you pull 29" ofvacumon your glued blank is that your boiling the water in the bambooand that since the rod is glued there is less of an oppertunity forthe moistureto get out thus it opens pockets in the individual strip,one of my custemershas an old lithium bromide absorber for an airconditioner this machine boils distilled water at 40 degrees F atapprox 25 inches of vacum, mychart says water will evaporate [boil] at52.3 degrees F at 10 mm of mercury 2mm mercury is approx 26" vacum ithink, your dip tank wouldbe at 70 plus so anyways this is just a WAG[wild ass guess]chris smithporter me -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu NunleySent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: My problems with varnish impregnating. impreganted blank I made, you can see an image of it athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/impregrod.jpg. If you'll look, I also broke the blank to see how it wouldbreak, and if it would splinter long splinters the way itshould. This section was heat treated exactly the same wayi heat treat all my blanks, and I had a junk blank in thegarage that was broken... well it (and the many others Ihave destroyed) all broke in long splinters, the wayproperly heat treated cane should... This did not. Thebreak was relatively clean, with the splinters being shortfibers and no separations below or above the break. Just 29 inch vacuum on the blank in the varnish for 30 minutes,then released the vacuum, and then put the contents of thetube under 30 psi of pressure for 24 hours. I assure you,this puppy was varnish impregnated all the way through, butthe breaking characteristics kinda bothered me. Justthought those of you trying this should see what happened onmy end. Another note, I used URAC to glue the section up,and the varnish impreg process did NOT affect the glue jointstrength whatsoever. I could peel this thing like an orange(some of the peelings are laying beside the broken blank inthe picture), but only between the glue joints... notthrough them. One final note (boy, keep thinking ofthings). The medium I used was Varmor R10. Anothervarnish/poly might react totally different. Bob --------------ABECA41FBCA09A823AC7A04F I am not sure your theory is correct. Vacuum is used to dry very delicate vacuum it would end up being cooked and not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 inhg and during the experiments I carried out the pump could notdifferentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry chris & annmarie smith wrote: bob,isuspect what is happening here is that when you pull 29" ofvacumonyour glued blank is that your boiling the water in the bamboo since the rod is glued there is less of an oppertunity for themoisturetoget out thus it opens pockets in the individual strip, one of mycustemershasan old lithium bromide absorber for an air conditioner this distilled water at 40 degrees F at approx 25 inches of vacum,mychartsays water will evaporate [boil] at 52.3 degrees F at 10 mm 2mm mercury is approx 26" vacum i think, your dip tankwouldbeat 70 plus so anyways this is just a WAG [wild assguess]chrissmithporterme -----OriginalMessage-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu[ NunleySent: Monday, January24,2000 5:11 PM ServeSubject: My problemswithvarnish impregnating. made, you can see an image of it at http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/impregrod.jpg. If you'll look, I also broke the blank to see how it would break, and was heat treated exactly the same way i heat treat all my blanks, and Ihad a junk blank in the garage that was broken... well it (and the manyothers I have destroyed) all broke in long splinters, the way properly clean, with the splinters being short fibers and no separations below or puppy was varnish impregnated all the way through, but the breakingcharacteristics glue the section up, and the varnish impreg process did NOT affect the orange(some of the peelings are laying beside the broken blank in the picture), --------------ABECA41FBCA09A823AC7A04F-- from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Wed Jan 26 17:39:22 2000 Subject: favorite rod i have a question for all bamboo aficionados. if you could only have ONE bamboo rod to fish with, and were fishing insay,oregon and/or yellowstone, what would it be, and why?(taper/rod designer, length, line weight). curious. . . from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jan 26 18:01:10 2000 16:11:58 PST Subject: Re: Tip top question The tiptops are sized according to the inside tube diameter. The loop is defined as small, large, pear shaped etc., but the size in terms of 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5 etc. is the inside diameter of the tube in 64ths. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- This is a puzzle for me too ! I ordered one of each size tip top fromCabelas, but there was no spec. on what the female portion that has to fitthe rod is. Are you supposed to ask for the I.D. when your order a certainsize of loop ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tip top question I'm getting ready to order some of the components for my first rod andhave a question about tip top sizing. Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? TIA Chuck from mark_lang@tnb.com Wed Jan 26 18:10:56 2000 0600 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:11:17 -0600 Subject: Re: "O" Rings Besides using "O" rings how about the zip wire ties? Gabriele Moultrie 01/26/0002:27PM >>>Hi, Firstly thankyou for the information on wet strips, a great help. Going through another back issue of the Planing Form (no i'm not the newsales manager) I noticed an article on a way to "bind" a glued blankwith rubber "o" rings instead of using the usual string or whatever.The writer wrote that he uses rubber rings mounted on a hollow brasstube which he then slips over the freshley glued blank and at a numberof places down the blank he slides a rubber "o" ring off the brass tubeand onto the splines which, once dry, need no further straightening. Has anyone used this method? As a boy I used to work on farms in South West England and they usedrubber rings and a set of "pliers" with four prongs to spread the ringsto castrate young bulls (the ring was left in place until the bullsballs dropped off). My father, an aircraft engineer.....no, no, notwhat you're thinking..... says they used a similar idea for strappingairplane electrical cables together. Does anyone use these "pliers" to apply the "o" rings? Thankyou Stuart from thramer@presys.com Wed Jan 26 18:21:08 2000 0000 (64.5.7.22) Subject: Re: Tip top question Chuck Tracy wrote: I'm getting ready to order some of the components for my first rod andhave a question about tip top sizing. Tip top run from size 3 on up, but I'm unsure of what the diameter ofeach size is? Does anyone have a source where I can match the tip topsize to a numerical diameter? Or, more importantly for me now, cananyone point me in the right direction for this rod. The tip on my rodmeasures .064, what size tip top should I use? TIA ChuckDon't forget to clean out the burr typically found in the mouth of thetube with a small x-acto knife (#11).A.J.Thramer from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 26 18:48:51 2000 with ESMTP id ;Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:48:05 +0000 Subject: Re: favorite rod Doc, That's like asking a golfer "If you could have only one club to playPebble Beach..." Dennis Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD wrote: i have a question for all bamboo aficionados. if you could only have ONE bamboo rod to fish with, and were fishing insay,oregon and/or yellowstone, what would it be, and why?(taper/rod designer, length, line weight). curious. . . from ernie2@pacbell.net Wed Jan 26 19:16:16 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods I would like to thank everyone who responded to this post and sharedtheir knowledge about the differences between 5 Strip & 6 Strip Rods.Ernie Harrison from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Jan 26 20:06:01 2000 E-Mail VirusWallNT); Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:00:38 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Looking for 6'6" to 6'9" 3 wt. taper Hi Chris,there's an F.E. Thomas 3 wt. about that length in Jack Howell'sbook. There are also enough other great classic tapers to keep you busyforquite some time. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Looking for 6'6" to 6'9" 3 wt. taper Does anyone have a suggestion for a 3 wt. taper that is in the 6'6" to 6'9" range? I mean preferably a classic taper from one of the long time famous (probably dead) makers that has been made public via the web or through a book. I'm willing to buy one of the current books by Ray Gould, Jack Howell, or George Maurer/Bernard Elser if there are some tapers ofthis nature in print and you can refer me to the right book. Thanks for yourhelp. Also, for those of you who have made the Garrison 193 taper, can you giveany feedback on it's action and characteristics with a 3 wt. line? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 26 21:05:43 2000 Subject: Munro rod co I was talking to Jon tonight (email) and he asked me to pass on thisinfo. He said he gets in very late so phone is not a good way to contacthim. He also said to email him at : sales@munrorodco.com if you haveany concerns and that if he couldn't deliver and you wanted he wouldgive a refund. Just thought you would like to know because some peoplewere asking about Munro. Hope this helps out!, Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 27 07:45:27 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:45:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Munro rod co There was a note in the envelope I got from the Planing Form, saying hehasnow graduated, and settled in Va., and has plans to put his business backona better basis. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Munro rod co I was talking to Jon tonight (email) and he asked me to pass on thisinfo. He said he gets in very late so phone is not a good way to contacthim. He also said to email him at : sales@munrorodco.com if you haveany concerns and that if he couldn't deliver and you wanted he wouldgive a refund. Just thought you would like to know because some peoplewere asking about Munro. Hope this helps out!, Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 27 07:54:43 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:55:17 -0600 Subject: Curing green wood boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF689B.F11EA440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF689B.F11EA440 I just received some back issues of the Planing Form, and there was =mention of a product called Pentacryl. This liquid apparently replaces =the moisture in the wood, rendering it stable in a short time. Sounds =like it's worth looking into. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF689B.F11EA440 I just received some back issues of the Planing Form, and there was= of a product called Pentacryl. This liquid apparently replaces the = the wood, rendering it stable in a short time. Sounds like it's worth = into. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF689B.F11EA440-- from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Jan 27 09:29:48 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. Terry, statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but 40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it at thattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) it would take.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I've beenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead of heat. Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but not the oils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good. Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takes hours) BTW -This is what I do before applying finish to fight moisture infiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod, this alsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't water based, it woulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember you areremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it has aboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vapor beforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts on thevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm am guessing thatis why they were used. Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end up being cookedand not dried. I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 in hg andduring the experiments I carried out the pump could not differentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out! Terry from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Thu Jan 27 10:12:12 2000 Subject: Southfield MI show dates? Does someone know the scheduled dates for the MI show in Southfield (I think) for this year? Do they have a web page set up? -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from jmb@shentel.net Thu Jan 27 10:21:46 2000 Subject: unsubscribe from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 27 15:20:28 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and the airways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not water based.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up to atubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3 seconds. I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant in smallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem not moisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builder thanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but 40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it at thattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) it wouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I've beenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead of heat. Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but not theoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good. Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takes hours) BTW- This is what I do before applying finish to fight moisture infiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod, thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't water based, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember you areremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it has aboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vapor beforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts on thevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm am guessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end up beingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 in hgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could not differentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry from dickay@alltel.net Thu Jan 27 16:25:44 2000 QAA05408; Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. Terry, I have no doubt that you have had to rebuild your vacuum pump. As Garywastrying to indicate, the most volatile substances will boil off first with alowered pressure. This could be some of the components that make up theimpregnating fluid. These could boil off even before the moisture in caneand then condense on the innards of the pump. I have not conversed with Darryl, Onis or Bob anyone else who isexperimenting with impregnation to any length. ( I did suggest to Bob,offlist, that he might want to change the oil in the vacuum pump toimproveits performance. ) However, I feel that it would be necessary to evacuatethe cane alone in the chamber prior to introducing the impregnating fluid. Having worked in Air Conditioning for over 30 years, I also realize thattheneedle of a compound gauge will register 30" Hg. in a very short time. Butas someone, maybe Gary, indicated that is not all there is to evacuatingthemoisture out of the cane. After the initial pump down the removal ofmoisture becomes a molecular flow. The only way to demonstrate thiswouldbe with the use of a Micron Gauge. There are some relatively inexpensiveones (Under $100. U.S.) available through refrigeration supply houses. Ifeel that it would take a couple of hours to bring the cane pieces for a roddown to a 500 Micron level. I would then introduce the impregnating fluid. Sort of a reverse Drip Tubeusing the vacuum to bring the fluid into the chamber. Continuing to imposeavacuum on the chamber at this point could cause the some of thecomponentsof the fluid to boil off thus depleting the fluid of its properties. After introducing the fluid, I would then impose pressure on the chambertoforce the fluid into the cane. I have not tried any of this but this is the procedure that I have beenconsidering for my experiments. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and the airways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not water based.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up to atubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3seconds.I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant in smallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem not moisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builderthanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, you statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but 40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it at thattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) it wouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I've beenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead of heat.Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but not theoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good. Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takes hours)BTW - This is what I do before applying finish to fight moistureinfiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod, thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't water based, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember you areremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it has aboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vaporbeforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts on thevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm am guessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end up beingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 in hgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could not differentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry from rhd360@maine.edu Thu Jan 27 16:40:09 2000 Level 310) via TCPwith SMTP ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:39:41 EST Subject: Reel seats I am working on a volume order of reel seats from REC which allows us toget a significant discount. If you are interested in participating, pleaselet me know off list. This is a not for profit venture and onlyappropriate for us amateures. Write or call me for details. Min. orderis about $200 retail per person, limited to the first few folks who contactme, and to shipping in the US only (for ins. reasons). This will happenfairly quickly as I expect to make the order by the week of Feb. 7.Again, this is a not for profit, more for fun, venture and I have noaffiliations with REC etc. --Bob.Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 27 17:51:23 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:41:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Munro rod co Richmond, Va. 804-340-1848 . sales@munrorodco.com is what's given.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Munro rod co At 7:46 AM -0600 on 1/27/00, nobler wrote about Re: Munro rod co There was a note in the envelope I got from the Planing Form, saying hehasnow graduated, and settled in Va., and has plans to put his business backona better basis. Did he say where in VA? Claude from brookside.rod@juno.com Thu Jan 27 17:52:05 2000 "LgDCAQvx8VpS0/O++3nsP7Ecd9YESoMc6BQZap+BWalt9olZRksKUw==" 18:49:15 EST Subject: Re: Impregnating. How pleasant it is to hear the voice of thoughtful reason. Dick, you are indeed correct in your observation. A proper jobimpregnating cane can be had by pumping down your pressure (vacuum)vessel, dwelling a while and then introducing the impregnating fluidusing the chamber vacuum as the mode of introduction. Your next step inthe process development would be the determination of whether to useoverpressure and dwell after introduction of your impregnant and then thecure cycle based on your material choice. good luck. Gary . On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:20:07 -0600 "Dick & Kathy Fuhrman"writes:Terry, I have no doubt that you have had to rebuild your vacuum pump. As Gary wastrying to indicate, the most volatile substances will boil off first with alowered pressure. This could be some of the components that make up theimpregnating fluid. These could boil off even before the moisture in caneand then condense on the innards of the pump. I have not conversed with Darryl, Onis or Bob anyone else who isexperimenting with impregnation to any length. ( I did suggest to Bob,offlist, that he might want to change the oil in the vacuum pump to improveits performance. ) However, I feel that it would be necessary to evacuatethe cane alone in the chamber prior to introducing the impregnating fluid. Having worked in Air Conditioning for over 30 years, I also realize that theneedle of a compound gauge will register 30" Hg. in a very short time. Butas someone, maybe Gary, indicated that is not all there is to evacuating themoisture out of the cane. After the initial pump down the removal ofmoisture becomes a molecular flow. The only way to demonstrate this wouldbe with the use of a Micron Gauge. There are some relatively inexpensiveones (Under $100. U.S.) available through refrigeration supply houses. Ifeel that it would take a couple of hours to bring the cane pieces for a roddown to a 500 Micron level. I would then introduce the impregnating fluid. Sort of a reverse Drip Tubeusing the vacuum to bring the fluid into the chamber. Continuing to impose a>vacuum on the chamber at this point could cause the some ofthe componentsof the fluid to boil off thus depleting the fluid of its properties. After introducing the fluid, I would then impose pressure on the chamber toforce the fluid into the cane. I have not tried any of this but this is the procedure that I have beenconsidering for my experiments. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:24 PMSubject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and the airways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not water based.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up to atubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3 seconds.I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant in smallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem not moisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builder thanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, temperature, asyou statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but 40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it at thattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) it wouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I've beenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead of heat.Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but not theoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good. Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takes hours)BTW - This is what I do before applying finish to fight moistureinfiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod, thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't water based, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember you areremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it has aboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vapor beforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts on thevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm am guessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end up beingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 in hgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could not differentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry ________________________________________________________________YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 27 17:57:31 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:47:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Impregnating. Isn't most of the impregnation procedure, used by Wes Jordan, described inSpurr's book on this man ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Impregnating. How pleasant it is to hear the voice of thoughtful reason. Dick, you are indeed correct in your observation. A proper jobimpregnating cane can be had by pumping down your pressure (vacuum)vessel, dwelling a while and then introducing the impregnating fluidusing the chamber vacuum as the mode of introduction. Your next step inthe process development would be the determination of whether to useoverpressure and dwell after introduction of your impregnant and thenthecure cycle based on your material choice. good luck. Gary . On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:20:07 -0600 "Dick & Kathy Fuhrman"writes:Terry, I have no doubt that you have had to rebuild your vacuum pump. AsGary wastrying to indicate, the most volatile substances will boil off firstwith alowered pressure. This could be some of the components that make uptheimpregnating fluid. These could boil off even before the moisture incaneand then condense on the innards of the pump. I have not conversed with Darryl, Onis or Bob anyone else who isexperimenting with impregnation to any length. ( I did suggest to Bob,offlist, that he might want to change the oil in the vacuum pump toimproveits performance. ) However, I feel that it would be necessary toevacuatethe cane alone in the chamber prior to introducing the impregnatingfluid. Having worked in Air Conditioning for over 30 years, I also realizethat theneedle of a compound gauge will register 30" Hg. in a very short time.Butas someone, maybe Gary, indicated that is not all there is toevacuating themoisture out of the cane. After the initial pump down the removal ofmoisture becomes a molecular flow. The only way to demonstrate thiswouldbe with the use of a Micron Gauge. There are some relativelyinexpensiveones (Under $100. U.S.) available through refrigeration supply houses.Ifeel that it would take a couple of hours to bring the cane pieces fora roddown to a 500 Micron level. I would then introduce the impregnating fluid. Sort of a reverse DripTubeusing the vacuum to bring the fluid into the chamber. Continuing toimpose avacuum on the chamber at this point could cause the some of thecomponentsof the fluid to boil off thus depleting the fluid of its properties. After introducing the fluid, I would then impose pressure on thechamber toforce the fluid into the cane. I have not tried any of this but this is the procedure that I havebeenconsidering for my experiments. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:24 PMSubject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and theairways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not waterbased.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up to atubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3seconds.I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant insmallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem notmoisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builderthanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, temperature, asyou statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it atthattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) itwouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I'vebeenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead ofheat.Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but nottheoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good.Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takeshours)BTW -This is what I do before applying finish to fight moistureinfiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod,thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't waterbased, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember youareremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it hasaboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vaporbeforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts onthevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm amguessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end upbeingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30in hgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could notdifferentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry ________________________________________________________________YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan 27 18:13:53 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:11:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Impregnating. LOL, Didn't think of that, but I think it is... I have the book, so I'llcheck and see-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnating. Isn't most of the impregnation procedure, used by Wes Jordan, describedinSpurr's book on this man ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 5:53 PMSubject: Re: Impregnating. How pleasant it is to hear the voice of thoughtful reason. Dick, you are indeed correct in your observation. A proper jobimpregnating cane can be had by pumping down your pressure (vacuum)vessel, dwelling a while and then introducing the impregnating fluidusing the chamber vacuum as the mode of introduction. Your next stepinthe process development would be the determination of whether to useoverpressure and dwell after introduction of your impregnant and thenthecure cycle based on your material choice. good luck. Gary . On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:20:07 -0600 "Dick & Kathy Fuhrman"writes:Terry, I have no doubt that you have had to rebuild your vacuum pump. AsGary wastrying to indicate, the most volatile substances will boil off firstwith alowered pressure. This could be some of the components that make uptheimpregnating fluid. These could boil off even before the moisture incaneand then condense on the innards of the pump. I have not conversed with Darryl, Onis or Bob anyone else who isexperimenting with impregnation to any length. ( I did suggest to Bob,offlist, that he might want to change the oil in the vacuum pump toimproveits performance. ) However, I feel that it would be necessary toevacuatethe cane alone in the chamber prior to introducing the impregnatingfluid. Having worked in Air Conditioning for over 30 years, I also realizethat theneedle of a compound gauge will register 30" Hg. in a very short time.Butas someone, maybe Gary, indicated that is not all there is toevacuating themoisture out of the cane. After the initial pump down the removal ofmoisture becomes a molecular flow. The only way to demonstrate thiswouldbe with the use of a Micron Gauge. There are some relativelyinexpensiveones (Under $100. U.S.) available through refrigeration supply houses.Ifeel that it would take a couple of hours to bring the cane pieces fora roddown to a 500 Micron level. I would then introduce the impregnating fluid. Sort of a reverse DripTubeusing the vacuum to bring the fluid into the chamber. Continuing toimpose avacuum on the chamber at this point could cause the some of thecomponentsof the fluid to boil off thus depleting the fluid of its properties. After introducing the fluid, I would then impose pressure on thechamber toforce the fluid into the cane. I have not tried any of this but this is the procedure that I havebeenconsidering for my experiments. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:24 PMSubject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and theairways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not waterbased.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up to atubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3seconds.I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant insmallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem notmoisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builderthanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, temperature, asyou statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it atthattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) itwouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I'vebeenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead ofheat.Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but nottheoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good.Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takeshours)BTW -This is what I do before applying finish to fight moistureinfiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod,thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't waterbased, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember youareremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it hasaboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vaporbeforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts onthevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm amguessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end upbeingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30in hgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could notdifferentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry ________________________________________________________________YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. from sats@gte.net Thu Jan 27 18:24:12 2000 Subject: Air brushing. About a week ago we were talking about using an Air brush to finish a rod.Sounds good, but there are some down sides. Because I've got severalyearsexperience with air brushing I thought I should point out a few things thatmayslip by. Airbrushes put tiny particles in the air. use a respirator -- not just adustmask. I know some of my friends who would 'shot' in a closed room withnomask. They now regret it. Some of the stuff you can spray threw anairbrush istoxic. Use ventilation. Even with a mask stuff will be floating around in the air,both gas and particles. If you use an exhaust fan, don't use a bathroom version. In it's near gasformmost paint can explode when it meets with a spark. The bathroom exhaustfandoes not have a sealed motor and can cause sparks. (I got away with onebecause I only sprayed water based paint. If I use one on a rod, I'll beoutside, wearing my mask... Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 27 19:56:32 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:46:55 -0600 Subject: Re: Air brushing. If you do, you'll have lots of junk on the finish, I'm afraid Terry ! I'vebeen spraying all sorts of epoxies, lacquers, etc., for over 55 years, and adust free environment, is the only way to get a good finish, when sprayingwith a slow drying product like varnish. Basic safety measures arecertainly important, but you defeat the reason to spray, if there's lots ofdust, and bugs flying around ! Heddon, who was the most famous of those using the air brush, had specialrooms, just for spraying their rods. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Air brushing. About a week ago we were talking about using an Air brush to finish arod.Sounds good, but there are some down sides. Because I've got severalyearsexperience with air brushing I thought I should point out a few thingsthat mayslip by. Airbrushes put tiny particles in the air. use a respirator -- not just adustmask. I know some of my friends who would 'shot' in a closed room withnomask. They now regret it. Some of the stuff you can spray threw anairbrush istoxic. Use ventilation. Even with a mask stuff will be floating around in theair,both gas and particles. If you use an exhaust fan, don't use a bathroom version. In it's near gasformmost paint can explode when it meets with a spark. The bathroomexhaustfandoes not have a sealed motor and can cause sparks. (I got away withonebecause I only sprayed water based paint. If I use one on a rod, I'll beoutside, wearing my mask... Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from drinkr@voicenet.com Thu Jan 27 20:03:52 2000 0000 (207.103.136.190) Subject: Im about to replace a nagging Bull Gear on my 9" Southbend Lathe. Anywords of advice concerning removal and refitting would be greatlyappreciated. Dick are you out there?.....Thanks in advanceDave Rinker from bhoy@inmind.com Thu Jan 27 20:04:34 2000 altos.inmind.com(8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id VAA25884; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:04:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Munro rod co Cell phone 804-314-6956/Work phone 804-697-8348 At 05:52 PM 1/27/00 -0600, nobler wrote:Richmond, Va. 804-340-1848 . sales@munrorodco.com is what's given.----- Original Message -----From: "Claude Freaner" Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Munro rod co At 7:46 AM -0600 on 1/27/00, nobler wrote about Re: Munro rod co There was a note in the envelope I got from the Planing Form, sayinghehasnow graduated, and settled in Va., and has plans to put his businessbackona better basis. Did he say where in VA? Claude from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan 27 20:20:57 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Impregnating. I think he had two sons and grandchildren, but the details of the procedure are only alluded to. Okay, all kidding aside, the other impregnation is described on pp. 122-127. A good book. I think his tapers are very underrated. Bob M. At 05:58 PM 1/27/00 -0600, you wrote:Isn't most of the impregnation procedure, used by Wes Jordan, describedinSpurr's book on this man ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 5:53 PMSubject: Re: Impregnating. How pleasant it is to hear the voice of thoughtful reason. Dick, you are indeed correct in your observation. A proper jobimpregnating cane can be had by pumping down your pressure (vacuum)vessel, dwelling a while and then introducing the impregnating fluidusing the chamber vacuum as the mode of introduction. Your next stepinthe process development would be the determination of whether to useoverpressure and dwell after introduction of your impregnant and thenthecure cycle based on your material choice. good luck. Gary . On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:20:07 -0600 "Dick & Kathy Fuhrman"writes:Terry, I have no doubt that you have had to rebuild your vacuum pump. AsGary wastrying to indicate, the most volatile substances will boil off firstwith alowered pressure. This could be some of the components that make uptheimpregnating fluid. These could boil off even before the moisture incaneand then condense on the innards of the pump. I have not conversed with Darryl, Onis or Bob anyone else who isexperimenting with impregnation to any length. ( I did suggest to Bob,offlist, that he might want to change the oil in the vacuum pump toimproveits performance. ) However, I feel that it would be necessary toevacuatethe cane alone in the chamber prior to introducing the impregnatingfluid. Having worked in Air Conditioning for over 30 years, I also realizethat theneedle of a compound gauge will register 30" Hg. in a very short time.Butas someone, maybe Gary, indicated that is not all there is toevacuating themoisture out of the cane. After the initial pump down the removal ofmoisture becomes a molecular flow. The only way to demonstratethiswouldbe with the use of a Micron Gauge. There are some relativelyinexpensiveones (Under $100. U.S.) available through refrigeration supply houses.Ifeel that it would take a couple of hours to bring the cane pieces fora roddown to a 500 Micron level. I would then introduce the impregnating fluid. Sort of a reverse DripTubeusing the vacuum to bring the fluid into the chamber. Continuing toimpose avacuum on the chamber at this point could cause the some of thecomponentsof the fluid to boil off thus depleting the fluid of its properties. After introducing the fluid, I would then impose pressure on thechamber toforce the fluid into the cane. I have not tried any of this but this is the procedure that I havebeenconsidering for my experiments. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:24 PMSubject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and theairways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not waterbased.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up toatubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3seconds.I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant insmallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem notmoisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builderthanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, temperature, asyou statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it atthattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) itwouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I'vebeenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead ofheat.Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but nottheoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good.Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takeshours)BTW -This is what I do before applying finish to fight moistureinfiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod,thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't waterbased, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember youareremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it hasaboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vaporbeforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts onthevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm amguessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end upbeingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30in hgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could notdifferentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry ________________________________________________________________YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Jan 27 20:22:17 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: RE: My problems with varnish impregnating. The Orvis impregnation system consisted of simply soaking the blanks in asolution long enough to completely saturate them. Are pressure or vacuumpumps really necessary? Richard from ernie2@pacbell.net Thu Jan 27 20:23:17 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Rod Finish I can understand why some one who is going to make rods commerciallywould use vacuum tanks and air brushes to finish their rods, but how aboutthe person who is going to make a rod or two for their personal use.Wouldn't a couple of coats of Deft applied with a brush in a dust freeenvironment be just as good and a heck of a lot simpler?Ernie Harrison from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jan 27 20:43:22 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:26:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Finish I've done allot of testing of Deft, and it's not even close to outdoor sparvarnish, for protection. Many solutions will soften it too, includingalcohol. You just can't get the same quality finish with a brush, that youdo with dipping or spraying. It will seal well though. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod Finish I can understand why some one who is going to make rodscommerciallywould use vacuum tanks and air brushes to finish their rods, but howaboutthe person who is going to make a rod or two for their personal use.Wouldn't a couple of coats of Deft applied with a brush in a dust freeenvironment be just as good and a heck of a lot simpler?Ernie Harrison from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jan 27 21:08:39 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I put a glass moisture trap between the chamber and the pump and as soonas Iswitched on the vacuum pump the trap and the pump filled up withimpregnant, notmoisture or volatile components.I understand that that a quick pull with a vacuum pump will not remove allthemoisture and a prolonged exposure is necessary. But then again should allthemoisture be removed, the deepest penetration of impregnating fluids arein greenlumber!Terry Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Terry, I have no doubt that you have had to rebuild your vacuum pump. As Garywastrying to indicate, the most volatile substances will boil off first with alowered pressure. This could be some of the components that make uptheimpregnating fluid. These could boil off even before the moisture incaneand then condense on the innards of the pump. I have not conversed with Darryl, Onis or Bob anyone else who isexperimenting with impregnation to any length. ( I did suggest to Bob,offlist, that he might want to change the oil in the vacuum pump toimproveits performance. ) However, I feel that it would be necessary toevacuatethe cane alone in the chamber prior to introducing the impregnatingfluid. Having worked in Air Conditioning for over 30 years, I also realize thattheneedle of a compound gauge will register 30" Hg. in a very short time. Butas someone, maybe Gary, indicated that is not all there is to evacuatingthemoisture out of the cane. After the initial pump down the removal ofmoisture becomes a molecular flow. The only way to demonstrate thiswouldbe with the use of a Micron Gauge. There are some relatively inexpensiveones (Under $100. U.S.) available through refrigeration supply houses. Ifeel that it would take a couple of hours to bring the cane pieces for aroddown to a 500 Micron level. I would then introduce the impregnating fluid. Sort of a reverse DripTubeusing the vacuum to bring the fluid into the chamber. Continuing toimpose avacuum on the chamber at this point could cause the some of thecomponentsof the fluid to boil off thus depleting the fluid of its properties. After introducing the fluid, I would then impose pressure on the chambertoforce the fluid into the cane. I have not tried any of this but this is the procedure that I have beenconsidering for my experiments. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:24 PMSubject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and theairways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not waterbased.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up to atubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3seconds.I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant insmallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem not moisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builderthanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, you statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but 40*F iscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it at thattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) it wouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I've beenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead ofheat.Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but not theoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good. Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takes hours)BTW - This is what I do before applying finish to fight moistureinfiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod, thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't water based, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember you areremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it has aboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vaporbeforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts on thevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm am guessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end up beingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 inhgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could notdifferentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 27 22:08:04 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. Yes, a trap is very helpful. The best type is a cold trap. When wefreeze-dry we use a very cold trap. this keeps the flow of water going outof the material and into the trap. Dry ice temperature is probablysufficient. If someone uses a volatile solvent in a lyophilizer the vaporsusually pass through the trap and into the pump and will eventually do itin. At 10:12 PM 1/27/2000 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:I put a glass moisture trap between the chamber and the pump and assoon as Iswitched on the vacuum pump the trap and the pump filled up withimpregnant, notmoisture or volatile components.I understand that that a quick pull with a vacuum pump will not removeallthemoisture and a prolonged exposure is necessary. But then again should allthemoisture be removed, the deepest penetration of impregnating fluids areingreenlumber!Terry Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Terry, I have no doubt that you have had to rebuild your vacuum pump. As Garywastrying to indicate, the most volatile substances will boil off first withalowered pressure. This could be some of the components that make uptheimpregnating fluid. These could boil off even before the moisture incaneand then condense on the innards of the pump. I have not conversed with Darryl, Onis or Bob anyone else who isexperimenting with impregnation to any length. ( I did suggest to Bob,offlist, that he might want to change the oil in the vacuum pump toimproveits performance. ) However, I feel that it would be necessary toevacuatethe cane alone in the chamber prior to introducing the impregnatingfluid. Having worked in Air Conditioning for over 30 years, I also realize thattheneedle of a compound gauge will register 30" Hg. in a very short time. Butas someone, maybe Gary, indicated that is not all there is to evacuatingthemoisture out of the cane. After the initial pump down the removal ofmoisture becomes a molecular flow. The only way to demonstrate thiswouldbe with the use of a Micron Gauge. There are some relativelyinexpensiveones (Under $100. U.S.) available through refrigeration supply houses. Ifeel that it would take a couple of hours to bring the cane pieces for aroddown to a 500 Micron level. I would then introduce the impregnating fluid. Sort of a reverse DripTubeusing the vacuum to bring the fluid into the chamber. Continuing toimpose avacuum on the chamber at this point could cause the some of thecomponentsof the fluid to boil off thus depleting the fluid of its properties. After introducing the fluid, I would then impose pressure on thechamber toforce the fluid into the cane. I have not tried any of this but this is the procedure that I have beenconsidering for my experiments. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:24 PMSubject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have stripped my pump down 3 times to clean all the rotors and theairways thathave been gummed up with impregnating fluid that was not waterbased.My vacuum pump is a large industrial unit and when connected up to atubular chamberand switched on my vacuum gauge goes to 30 in hg in less than 3seconds.I suppose avery slow evacuation would remove all the air in the impregnant insmallbubblesinstead of a big frothy lump (air is probably the problem not moisture)Pressure is far more affordable and easier for the basement builderthanvacuum.Terry Heidt wrote: Terry, you statedat .248 in. Hg water boils at 40*F. I know this is obvious but 40*Fiscold, you'll come closer to freezing the flower than cooking it atthattemperature. If you wanted to leave it at room temp. (70*F) itwouldtake.522 in. Hg to boil the water, but it would still be 70*F. I've beenrunning some tests on "cooking" my cane with a vacuum instead ofheat.Ihave found that I can remove the moisture with a vacuum but not theoils.This takes more than just pulling a vacuum and saying that's good. Youmust keep pumping until it holds a vacuum. (It usually takes hours)BTW - This is what I do before applying finish to fight moistureinfiltrartion.I'm a hobbiest so it takes me a very long time to complete a rod, thisalsoexplains why I have the time to do this kind of stuff.As to the impregnation fluid, assuming it isn't water based, itwoulddepend on it's vaporization (boiling) temperature. (Remember you areremoving the vapor, with a vacuum pump, not the liquid) If it has aboiling point higher than water you would remove the water vaporbeforetheimpregnation fluid would vaporize. I have not seen any charts on thevaporization temperature of any of the Bakelites but I'm am guessingthatis why they were used.Best Regards,Gary H. At 06:25 PM 1/26/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:the water boiled inside a plant in a vacuum it would end up beingcookedand not dried.I have a large double stage vacuum pump that can evacuate to 30 inhgandduring the experiments I carried out the pump could notdifferentiatebetween air and the impregnating fluid, it would suck both out!Terry Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jan 27 23:11:11 2000 Subject: Stripping guides Opinions please! Is it really worth laying out $45 dollars for Agatestrippers when I can get plain metal framed standard strippers foraround $10?? I have looked at a lot of rods lately and I don't see toomany agate/agatine strippers. Shawn from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jan 28 04:36:21 2000 be forged)) Subject: Fwd: RE: Adhesives Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:39:35 +0800 From: Tony Young Subject: RE: Adhesives Andrew,personaly I'd treat all glues with the exception of PVA types and solventslike loaded guns but Epon and most other epoxies aren't as bad as it soundsyou think. Certainly keep the stuff away from anything that could make itto your mouth and eys but the fumes aren't too bad as long as you havereasonable ventilation.The dust while sanding is more of a problem and you should take thatseriously if you're concerned, again adiquate ventilation is enough butwear a mask if you're concerned. Don't use a paper mask, these may beworsethan useless.One thing that can happen with epoxies is becoming sensitised to thestuff from excessive contact with it. I was highly sensitised to it and at onepoint started to scratch just at the mention of the word EPOXY but it goesin time. I might note though this occured after working with it on a dailybasis for over 4 years and I was litterlaly covered in the stuff one dayand and sanding it the next boat building. The miniscule contact you'd havein rod building is nothing to be overly concerned with though I guess ifyou're of a sensitive type and get skin irritations easily be careful. I was reading an old copy of Wooden Boat the other day (issue #147March/April 99) and noticed on page 118 a review on Aerodux 500 which isaformaldehyde fortified resorcinol and is liquid in both the resin andhardener. The hardener is available in 3 setup speeds from fast to slow.It's also slightly gap filling to 1/16" according to the review and ismore brown than purple. It's also very easy going re. working temps. Abasic test of gluing some wood then testing to destruction was performedusing White Oak and the wood failed not the glue which is good going forWhite Oak which is a hard wood to glue well without a bit of surfacepreperation.The place to get this is:B&K Resins, Ashgrove Estate, Ashgrove RD., Bromley, Kent , BR1 4TH, UK tel +44 181-3151207fax +44 181-3130280 There is currently no US outlet according to the review.I'll be getting some and I'll let the list know how it goes. This article also mentions Formaldehyde has been reclassified as aCatagory 3 (low risk) in EEC countrys so a lot of the old worrys re.Formaldehyde health risks can if not be forgotten at least be reduced.Apparently..... Anyhow if you're interested in this review get the copy of wooden boat. Ithas an excellent article on a $9mil rebuild of the ship USS Constellationwhich from memory without re reading the article is over 176 feet inlengthand has quite a bit of lamination using epoxy, no not quite a bit, bloodylots actually.This issue also has an article on making a hand plane or cordless plane asthey are sometimes called these days as well as 5 tool catalogues I'msurepeople of the list would like.I have no financial interests in any of the above products or publicationsetc, etc and so forth. Tony At 12:22 PM 1/24/00 -0500, you wrote:I've used Epon so far...according to the label it is super toxicstuff...like itcan kill you if you look at it funny. Anyone know just how bad it is andwhatcan be done to minimize possible effects? I was thinking of getting oneof thosemasks they use in auto body shops (about $40 I think). Is Urac any lesstoxic? Thanks... /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 28 05:11:52 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Stripping guides Note the prices I quoted are Canadian as I live in Canada. American prices$20-25 and $6 respectively.,Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Opinions please! Is it really worth laying out $45 dollars for Agatestrippers when I can get plain metal framed standard strippers foraround $10?? I have looked at a lot of rods lately and I don't see toomany agate/agatine strippers. Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 28 07:53:13 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:53:30 -0600 Subject: Re: RE: Adhesives Some are super sensitive to many types of epoxy. I have a friend, who can'tget near any sort of epoxies, glues, or enamels. I have just about taken abath in the stuff, since the early days, in the 1950's, aircraft industry. Imay be considered "dizzy" by my friends, But I find no reason to think it's from the years of exposure to lacquers, dopes (both nitrate, and butyrate),poly ester resins, epoxy, etc. ! Each of us must know their own body's sensitivity to these products. We use the "super glues" in massive amounts, in the model airplaneindustry,where you can find these in far superior quality, to others on the market.We know from bitter experience, to have a fan blowing across the work, sothat the "smoke" from these glues setting up, doesn't get inhaled. Thisvapor will burn your lungs badly ! Unless we get into mass production of our cane rods, the likelihood of badaffects from these various products, is unlikely to be of much danger,undernormal circumstances. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fwd: RE: Adhesives Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:39:35 +0800 From: Tony Young Subject: RE: Adhesives Andrew,personaly I'd treat all glues with the exception of PVA types andsolventslike loaded guns but Epon and most other epoxies aren't as bad as itsoundsyou think. Certainly keep the stuff away from anything that could makeitto your mouth and eys but the fumes aren't too bad as long as you havereasonable ventilation.The dust while sanding is more of a problem and you should take thatseriously if you're concerned, again adiquate ventilation is enough butwear a mask if you're concerned. Don't use a paper mask, these may beworsethan useless.One thing that can happen with epoxies is becoming sensitised to thestuff from excessive contact with it. I was highly sensitised to it and at onepoint started to scratch just at the mention of the word EPOXY but itgoesin time. I might note though this occured after working with it on a dailybasis for over 4 years and I was litterlaly covered in the stuff one dayand and sanding it the next boat building. The miniscule contact you'dhavein rod building is nothing to be overly concerned with though I guess ifyou're of a sensitive type and get skin irritations easily be careful. I was reading an old copy of Wooden Boat the other day (issue #147March/April 99) and noticed on page 118 a review on Aerodux 500 whichis aformaldehyde fortified resorcinol and is liquid in both the resin andhardener. The hardener is available in 3 setup speeds from fast to slow.It's also slightly gap filling to 1/16" according to the review and ismore brown than purple. It's also very easy going re. working temps. Abasic test of gluing some wood then testing to destruction wasperformedusing White Oak and the wood failed not the glue which is good going forWhite Oak which is a hard wood to glue well without a bit of surfacepreperation.The place to get this is:B&K Resins, Ashgrove Estate,Ashgrove RD., Bromley,Kent , BR1 4TH, UK tel +44 181-3151207fax +44 181-3130280 There is currently no US outlet according to the review.I'll be getting some and I'll let the list know how it goes. This article also mentions Formaldehyde has been reclassified as aCatagory 3 (low risk) in EEC countrys so a lot of the old worrys re.Formaldehyde health risks can if not be forgotten at least be reduced.Apparently..... Anyhow if you're interested in this review get the copy of wooden boat.Ithas an excellent article on a $9mil rebuild of the ship USS Constellationwhich from memory without re reading the article is over 176 feet inlengthand has quite a bit of lamination using epoxy, no not quite a bit, bloody lots actually.This issue also has an article on making a hand plane or cordless planeasthey are sometimes called these days as well as 5 tool catalogues I'msurepeople of the list would like.I have no financial interests in any of the above products orpublicationsetc, etc and so forth. Tony At 12:22 PM 1/24/00 -0500, you wrote:I've used Epon so far...according to the label it is super toxicstuff...like itcan kill you if you look at it funny. Anyone know just how bad it is andwhatcan be done to minimize possible effects? I was thinking of gettingoneof thosemasks they use in auto body shops (about $40 I think). Is Urac any lesstoxic? Thanks... /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 28 07:57:55 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:58:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Stripping guides Shawn, these guides fall under the classification of "Old Master'sTradition", most probably. They are the crowning touch to a fine piece ofcraftsmanship, while serving yeoman duty. Certainly the newer "space age" ceramic guides are better for durability.Somehow, the agate seems to just meld with cane ! It's the individuals choice ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Stripping guides Opinions please! Is it really worth laying out $45 dollars for Agatestrippers when I can get plain metal framed standard strippers foraround $10?? I have looked at a lot of rods lately and I don't see toomany agate/agatine strippers. Shawn from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan 28 09:36:41 2000 Subject: Re: Rod Finish I can understand why some one who is going to make rodscommerciallywould use vacuum tanks and air brushes to finish their rods, but howaboutthe person who is going to make a rod or two for their personal use.Wouldn't a couple of coats of Deft applied with a brush in a dust freeenvironment be just as good and a heck of a lot simpler? I can see your point, and yes it is a lot simpler. Impregnating is a way toaddress a few shortcomings of just surface coating a cane rod. One ofthemis humidity. A bamboo rod will swell and shrink with varying humidityevenwith several coats of the best varnish. When this happens ferrules canloosen or tighten, and when the uptake or losing of the humidity isdifferent in the different strips, rods can bow or bend. Also, with use varnishcoatingscan get damaged or worn off and the bamboo underneath may deteriorateor get water marked. Impregnation avoids these problems. The reasons to not impregnate a rod are, as you can see if you arefollowingthis thread, it is not easy for a home hobbiest to do. It adds weight to the bamboo, and bamboo rods already have the reputation of being heavy. Somefeel it deadens the "feel" of the bamboo, and I recall a quote fromsomeone:"Heck, if I wanted a plastic rod I would have bought a plastic rod".But, until I try it myself and find out if it is better or not I'll never know forsure.Darryl from ernie2@pacbell.net Fri Jan 28 09:55:16 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Stripping guides Shawn,If you are going for a classical look get the Agate. The newer Hialloystrippers are probably better because there is no danger of having theAgatebreak or come loose. The reduction of line wear line shooting capability isequal to Agate and they are a heck of a lot cheaper. When you want a HardyPerfect with an Agate ring you must pay for a Hardy Perfect. :-)Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Subject: Stripping guides Opinions please! Is it really worth laying out $45 dollars for Agatestrippers when I can get plain metal framed standard strippers foraround $10?? I have looked at a lot of rods lately and I don't see toomany agate/agatine strippers. Shawn from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Jan 28 09:59:54 2000 Subject: Re: Stripping guides Agate stripping guides with nickel silver frames are available in severalcolors including red, green and clear. They add a beautiful touch to a laborof love and help set the rod apart as a one of a kind work of art. I findthat people usually notice the stripper and remark about it. They tend tocarry on the tradition set years ago and seem to carry a sense of worth. Itnever hurts to let a customer select the type of stripping guide he/shemight want.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Stripping guides Opinions please! Is it really worth laying out $45 dollars for Agatestrippers when I can get plain metal framed standard strippers foraround $10?? I have looked at a lot of rods lately and I don't see toomany agate/agatine strippers. Shawn from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Jan 28 10:25:01 2000 Subject: Southfield MI show dates? "[unknown]" Grayson;March 11-12 at the Southfield Civic Center, 26000 Evergreen Rd. ,Southfield, MI. 10.00am to 7.00pm Sat the 11th and 10-5pm Sun.$10.00 togetin. Call Ron McNeal @ 248-380-8547 for more info. No web page that Iknowof. Regards, Dennis from goodaple@tcac.net Fri Jan 28 11:38:34 2000 forged)) Subject: RE: Stripping Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF64CA.E803D580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF64CA.E803D580 Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen posts =regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses were =usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or just =not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding =the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm =unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to =the list because I like the challenge of research yet this aspect of =rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to =lend some Information on the proper (lapidary?) tooling? It would =probably be appreciated by myself and many others. Much appreciated, =Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF64CA.E803D580 Since everyone is talking about guides,= previously seen posts regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. = responses were usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a = or just not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued = the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm = to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to the list = like the challenge of research yet this aspect of rodbuilding has been = difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to lend some Information on = = Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF64CA.E803D580-- from goodaple@tcac.net Fri Jan 28 11:48:14 2000 forged)) Subject: Fw: Stripping Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF64CC.53D46E40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF64CC.53D46E40 Subject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen posts =regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses were =usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or just =not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding =the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm =unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to =the list because I like the challenge of research yet this aspect of =rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to =lend some Information on the proper (lapidary?) tooling? It would =probably be appreciated by myself and many others. Much appreciated, =Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF64CC.53D46E40 From:Randall = Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 11:22 AMSubject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides,= previously seen posts regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. = responses were usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a = or just not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued = the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm = to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to the list = like the challenge of research yet this aspect of rodbuilding has been = difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to lend some Information on = = Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF64CC.53D46E40-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Jan 28 12:29:07 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA22288; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:27:25 +1300 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I have had some experience in the commercial treatment of lumber . Inthatsituation the Vacumn is pulled for only a short time, about 4 minutes , andthe liquid held under pressure for a lessor period. The intention in that case is not to fully impregnate the timber , butmerely to impregnate a thin skin around the timber. This greatly reducestheamount of materials used and does not alter the characteristics of thetimber. I wonder if those of you considering this process might give some thoughttothis approach as it may avoid some of the weight increase and changedactionproblems ? Ian Kearney At 10:12 PM 27/01/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:I put a glass moisture trap between the chamber and the pump and assoon as Iswitched on the vacuum pump the trap and the pump filled up withimpregnant, notmoisture or volatile components. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Jan 28 13:12:03 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 1/27/00 10:09:45 PM Central Standard Time, dpeaston@wzrd.com writes: How about an accumulator between the pump and the impreg chamber? Itcould be a large section of pipe for example, with a valve on either side plus a valve to ambient pressure. With the accumulator isolated from the impreg chamber, pull a vacuum on the accumulator then isolate it from the pump. Then open the valve to the dip chamber for the impreg. At the appropriate time, open to ambient pressure. The accumulator would in effect be a trap protecting the pump. Could also add pressure thru the accumulator ifdesired. Since one would be going to a lot of expense and effort to impreg to begin with, the above would be just a bit more plumbing and thus should be a reasonable approach to some of the problems mentioned. Regards, R Tyree from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Jan 28 13:36:05 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper After MANY requests for this taper, I took the measurements. This is a 9' 3piece rod. Notes:The tip section was 1/2" short at the tip top. First measurement would beapproximately 2" below where the original length section would have beenor1.5" from the top of the current length of the rod today. measurement was 33"- .294" and 37" - .302". Or you can decide on yourownnumber. All measurements were a single measurement. This rod was completed January 30, 1941 and the first owner was S.S.Bauerswho bought it on May 20, 1941. This has a half Wells grip and is a 6 oz rodaccording to the original FE Thomas records. .178 2".197 7".219 etc. 5" inter- vals.240.263.272.283.298.312.340.365.370.380.390.395.404.415.435.458.555 Sorry, this is my first attempt at measuring a rod... I'm willing toremeasure if someone wants to give me some pointers... But it has to beASAPas this rod is sold and will be packaged and shipped in a couple of hours.If this is good, please let me know so I can go ahead and pack the rod. Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jan 28 13:48:55 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. The intention in that case is not to fully impregnate the timber , butmerely to impregnate a thin skin around the timber. This greatly reduces theamount of materials used and does not alter the characteristics of the timber. I wonder if those of you considering this process might give somethought tothis approach as it may avoid some of the weight increase and changed actionproblems ? Sounds like the Deep Finish I did that started this whole thread!Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 28 14:15:35 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:13:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Adhesives George,I use URAC, and the only trouble I have, is on the occasions that I have3 or 4 rods to glue up at once, if I don't use heavy latex gloves, theformaldehyde will key right in through the skin, and I get this funky tastein the back of my mouth, and on rare occasion, just a bit of a "washingmachine" feeling in my stomache. Other than that, this stuff burns likehell if you get it in a cut, and that's about it. Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Adhesives Some are super sensitive to many types of epoxy. I have a friend, whocan'tget near any sort of epoxies, glues, or enamels. I have just about taken abath in the stuff, since the early days, in the 1950's, aircraft industry.Imay be considered "dizzy" by my friends, But I find no reason to think it's from the years of exposure to lacquers, dopes (both nitrate, andbutyrate),poly ester resins, epoxy, etc. ! Each of us must know their own body's sensitivity to these products. We use the "super glues" in massive amounts, in the model airplaneindustry,where you can find these in far superior quality, to others on the market.We know from bitter experience, to have a fan blowing across the work,sothat the "smoke" from these glues setting up, doesn't get inhaled. Thisvapor will burn your lungs badly ! Unless we get into mass production of our cane rods, the likelihood of badaffects from these various products, is unlikely to be of much danger,undernormal circumstances. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 4:41 AMSubject: Fwd: RE: Adhesives Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:39:35 +0800 From: Tony Young Subject: RE: Adhesives Andrew,personaly I'd treat all glues with the exception of PVA types andsolventslike loaded guns but Epon and most other epoxies aren't as bad as itsoundsyou think. Certainly keep the stuff away from anything that could makeitto your mouth and eys but the fumes aren't too bad as long as you havereasonable ventilation.The dust while sanding is more of a problem and you should take thatseriously if you're concerned, again adiquate ventilation is enough butwear a mask if you're concerned. Don't use a paper mask, these may beworsethan useless.One thing that can happen with epoxies is becoming sensitised to thestuff from excessive contact with it. I was highly sensitised to it and at onepoint started to scratch just at the mention of the word EPOXY but itgoesin time. I might note though this occured after working with it on adailybasis for over 4 years and I was litterlaly covered in the stuff one dayand and sanding it the next boat building. The miniscule contact you'dhavein rod building is nothing to be overly concerned with though I guess ifyou're of a sensitive type and get skin irritations easily be careful. I was reading an old copy of Wooden Boat the other day (issue #147March/April 99) and noticed on page 118 a review on Aerodux 500 whichisaformaldehyde fortified resorcinol and is liquid in both the resin andhardener. The hardener is available in 3 setup speeds from fast to slow.It's also slightly gap filling to 1/16" according to the review and ismore brown than purple. It's also very easy going re. working temps. Abasic test of gluing some wood then testing to destruction wasperformedusing White Oak and the wood failed not the glue which is good going forWhite Oak which is a hard wood to glue well without a bit of surfacepreperation.The place to get this is:B&K Resins, Ashgrove Estate,Ashgrove RD., Bromley,Kent , BR1 4TH, UK tel +44 181-3151207fax +44 181-3130280 There is currently no US outlet according to the review.I'll be getting some and I'll let the list know how it goes. This article also mentions Formaldehyde has been reclassified as aCatagory 3 (low risk) in EEC countrys so a lot of the old worrys re.Formaldehyde health risks can if not be forgotten at least be reduced.Apparently..... Anyhow if you're interested in this review get the copy of wooden boat.Ithas an excellent article on a $9mil rebuild of the ship USS Constellationwhich from memory without re reading the article is over 176 feet inlengthand has quite a bit of lamination using epoxy, no not quite a bit, bloody lots actually.This issue also has an article on making a hand plane or cordless planeasthey are sometimes called these days as well as 5 tool catalogues I'msurepeople of the list would like.I have no financial interests in any of the above products orpublicationsetc, etc and so forth. Tony At 12:22 PM 1/24/00 -0500, you wrote:I've used Epon so far...according to the label it is super toxicstuff...like itcan kill you if you look at it funny. Anyone know just how bad it isandwhatcan be done to minimize possible effects? I was thinking of gettingoneof thosemasks they use in auto body shops (about $40 I think). Is Urac any lesstoxic? Thanks... /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from thramer@presys.com Fri Jan 28 14:29:41 2000 (64.5.7.19) Subject: Re: Stripping Guides Randall Gregory wrote: Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen postsregarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses wereusually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft orjust not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursuedfinding the tooling for this practice and think I may have found someyet I'm unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarelyrespond to the list because I like the challenge of research yet thisaspect of rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyonebe able to lend some Information on the proper (lapidary?) tooling?It would probably be appreciated by myself and many others. Muchappreciated, Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) Al Bellinger made the machine to make the wire frames, you might wanttotalk to him.A.J.Thramer from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 28 14:30:45 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. Ian,you have it in one. All that is necessary is to force some resin into thegrain,particularly the node area which is after filing, is almost end grain.Terry Ian Kearney wrote: I have had some experience in the commercial treatment of lumber . Inthatsituation the Vacumn is pulled for only a short time, about 4 minutes ,andthe liquid held under pressure for a lessor period. The intention in that case is not to fully impregnate the timber , butmerely to impregnate a thin skin around the timber. This greatly reducestheamount of materials used and does not alter the characteristics of thetimber. I wonder if those of you considering this process might give somethought tothis approach as it may avoid some of the weight increase and changedactionproblems ? Ian Kearney At 10:12 PM 27/01/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:I put a glass moisture trap between the chamber and the pump and assoon as Iswitched on the vacuum pump the trap and the pump filled up withimpregnant, notmoisture or volatile components. from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 28 14:42:18 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. I just suck out the air and leave it for a day and then close the vacuum lineandthen suck the impregnant through another pipe into the chamber. I can alsousethis line to pressurize the chamber.How you impregnate is not that important, what is more important is thechoice ofresin.Terry Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/27/00 10:09:45 PM Central Standard Time,dpeaston@wzrd.com writes: Yes, a trap is very helpful. The best type is a cold trap. When wefreeze-dry we use a very cold trap. this keeps the flow of water goingoutof the material and into the trap. Dry ice temperature is probablysufficient. If someone uses a volatile solvent in a lyophilizer the vaporsusually pass through the trap and into the pump and will eventually do itin. How about an accumulator between the pump and the impreg chamber? Itcouldbe a large section of pipe for example, with a valve on either side plus avalve to ambient pressure. With the accumulator isolated from theimpregchamber, pull a vacuum on the accumulator then isolate it from thepump.Then open the valve to the dip chamber for the impreg. At theappropriatetime, open to ambient pressure. The accumulator would in effect be atrapprotecting the pump. Could also add pressure thru the accumulator ifdesired.Since one would be going to a lot of expense and effort to impreg tobeginwith, the above would be just a bit more plumbing and thus should be areasonable approach to some of the problems mentioned. Regards, R Tyree from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 28 16:47:27 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:47:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Stripping Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01BF69AF.8565D560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BF69AF.8565D560 I think the reason you get little response, is that few of us know =anything, preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most of =our efforts toward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look =at the lapidary side, is a start. The other side is constructing the =frames, which sort of falls into the making of jewelry. I just don't =have the time to pursue so many trades. GMA Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 11:22 AMSubject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen posts =regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses were =usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or just =not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding =the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm =unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to =the list because I like the challenge of research yet this aspect of =rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to =lend some Information on the proper (lapidary?) tooling? It would =probably be appreciated by myself and many others. Much appreciated, =Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BF69AF.8565D560 anything, preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most of = efforts toward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look at = lapidary side, is a start. The other side is constructing the frames, = of falls into the making of jewelry. I just don't have the time to = many trades. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Randall= Sent: Saturday, January 22, = AMSubject: RE: Stripping =Guides Since everyone is talking about = previously seen posts regarding making one's own agate stripping = responses were usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a = craft or just not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have = finding the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some = unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to = list because I like the challenge of research yet this aspect of = R. Gregory (Northwest =Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BF69AF.8565D560-- from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Fri Jan 28 17:34:17 2000 rodmakers list serv Subject: RE: Stripping Guides boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF69E6.68B8CF80" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF69E6.68B8CF80 there was an article in an old (1998) bamboo rod magazine that talkedabouta rodmaker in Denver (i think) who makes all of his rod componentshimself;snake guides, agate stripping guides, ferrules, real seats etc.you might try looking him up for advice. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stripping Guides I think the reason you get little response, is that few of us know anything,preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most of our effortstoward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look at thelapidaryside, is a start. The other side is constructing the frames, which sort offalls into the making of jewelry. I just don't have the time to pursue somany trades. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen postsregarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses wereusually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or justnottypically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding thetooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm unsure asto exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to the listbecause I like the challenge of research yet this aspect of rodbuilding hasbeen more difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to lend someInformation on the proper (lapidary?) tooling? It would probably beappreciated by myself and many others. Much appreciated, Randall R.Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF69E6.68B8CF80 there was an article in an old (1998) bamboo rod magazine that talked about arodmaker in Denver (i think) who makes all of his rod components himself; snakeguides, agate stripping guides, ferrules, real seats etc.you might try looking him up for advice. -----Original Message-----From: nobler 2:49 servSubject: Re: Stripping GuidesI think the reason you get little response, is that few of us know anything, preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most ofour efforts toward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look atthe lapidary side, is a start. The other side is constructing the frames, which sort of falls into the making of jewelry. I just don't have the time topursue so many trades. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall Gregory Sent: Saturday, January 22, 200011:22 AMSubject: RE: StrippingGuides Since everyone is talking about guides, Ihave previously seen posts regarding making one's own agate strippingguides. The responses were usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is acoveted craft or just not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to the list because I like the challenge of research yet thisaspect of rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyone be ableto Arkansas) ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF69E6.68B8CF80-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 28 17:46:36 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:47:05 -0600 "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Stripping Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BF69B7.C9014AE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BF69B7.C9014AE0 Yes, it's in the only issue of the Bamboo Fly Rod, I have received, =Sept/Dec. of 1998, and the name is Joe Arguello, of Ft. Lupton, Col. =80621 Phone 303-857-1507. Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 5:21 PMSubject: RE: Stripping Guides there was an article in an old (1998) bamboo rod magazine that talked =about a rodmaker in Denver (i think) who makes all of his rod components=himself; snake guides, agate stripping guides, ferrules, real seats etc.you might try looking him up for advice.-----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Stripping Guides I think the reason you get little response, is that few of us know =anything, preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most of =our efforts toward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look =at the lapidary side, is a start. The other side is constructing the =frames, which sort of falls into the making of jewelry. I just don't =have the time to pursue so many trades. GMA Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 11:22 AMSubject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen =posts regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses =were usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or =just not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued =finding the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some =yet I'm unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely =respond to the list because I like the challenge of research yet this =aspect of rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyone =be able to lend some Information on the proper (lapidary?) tooling? It =would probably be appreciated by myself and many others. Much =appreciated, Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BF69B7.C9014AE0 Yes, it's in the only issue of the Bamboo Fly Rod, I have received, = Sept/Dec. of 1998, and the name is Joe Arguello, of Ft. Lupton, Col. = 303-857-1507. GMA----- Original Message ----- Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD = ; rodmakers list serv Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 = PMSubject: RE: Stripping =Guides there was an article in an old (1998) = magazine that talked about a rodmaker in Denver (i think) who makes = rod components himself; snake guides, agate stripping guides, = seats etc. might try looking him up for advice. servSubject: Re: Stripping GuidesI think the reason you get little response, is that few of us = anything, preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most = efforts toward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look = lapidary side, is a start. The other side is constructing the = sort of falls into the making of jewelry. I just don't have the time = pursue so many trades. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Gregory Sent: Saturday, January 22, = 11:22 AMSubject: RE: Stripping =Guides Since everyone is talking about = have previously seen posts regarding making one's own agate = guides. The responses were usually minimal. I was just wondering = rodmaker. I have pursued finding the tooling for this practice and = may have found some yet I'm unsure as to exactly what I should be = for. I rarely respond to the list because I like the challenge of = yet this aspect of rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. = =Arkansas) ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01BF69B7.C9014AE0-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jan 28 17:49:07 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: RE: Stripping Guides boundary="=====================_3762388==_.ALT" --=====================_3762388==_.ALT I think that was Joe Aruegelo (sp?)Bob At 03:21 PM 1/28/00 -0800, you wrote:there was an article in an old (1998) bamboo rod magazine that talked about a rodmaker in Denver (i think) who makes all of his rod components himself; snake guides, agate stripping guides, ferrules, real seats etc.you might try looking him up for advice.----- Original Message----- Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Stripping Guides I think the reason you get little response, is that few of us know anything, preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most ofour efforts toward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look at the lapidary side, is a start. The other side is constructing the frames, which sort of falls into the making of jewelry. I just don't have the time to pursue so many trades. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Randall Gregory Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 11:22 AMSubject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen posts regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses were usually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or just not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to the list because I like the challenge of research yet this aspect of rodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to lend some Information on the proper (lapidary?) tooling? It would probably be appreciated by myself and many others. Much appreciated, Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_3762388==_.ALT I think that was Joe Aruegelo (sp?)Bob At 03:21 PM 1/28/00 -0800, you wrote:therewas an article in an old (1998) bamboo rod magazine that talked about arodmaker in Denver (i think) who makes all of his rod components himself;snake guides, agate stripping guides, ferrules, real seatsetc.you might try looking him up foradvice. -----Original Message-----From: nobler Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Stripping Guides I think the reason you get little response, is that few of us knowanything, preferring to just buy what is made, while spending most of ourefforts toward the cane construction. The fact that you know to look atthe lapidary side, is a start. The other side is constructing the frames,which sort of falls into the making of jewelry. I just don't have thetime to pursue so many trades. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Randall Gregory serv Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 11:22 AMSubject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen postsregarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses wereusually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or justnot typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued findingthe tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'munsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond tothe list because I like the challenge of research yet this aspect ofrodbuilding has been more difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to Arkansas) Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_3762388==_.ALT-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Jan 28 18:08:27 2000 16:19:52 PST Subject: re: Fw: Stripping Guides You can get the Diamond Core drill bits through Rio Grande for a pretty reasonable price. REC may work with you in ordering mildrum styleframes without the rings. You might have to get a quantity. Joe Arguello of Rocky Mtn. Cane is very helpful in explaining the process of making them in your shop one at a time. A silversmithing class would be very helpful as would access to lapidary equipment for slabbing the agate. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen posts regarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses wereusually minimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or just not typically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding the tooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm unsure as to exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to the list because I like the challenge of research yet this aspect of rodbuilding has beenmore difficult than usual. Would anyone be able to lend some Information on the proper (lapidary?) tooling? It would probably be appreciated by myselfand many others. Much appreciated, Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) from rafick@fwi.com Fri Jan 28 18:21:20 2000 0000 Subject: Re: Stripping Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF69C3.A9FC80E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF69C3.A9FC80E0 About two months ago I wrote Joe Arguello asking if he would share with=me his knowledge of making agate strippers, I offered a classic reel in =trade, I didn't receive a reply so I assumed this was something of a =trade secret.You can hardly blame anyone who has done the leg work and research and =learned to make what amounts to a fine piece of jewelry not wanting to =give it away.Since then I have found that everything needed to make agate strippers =is available on the internet (surprise) including the information. R A R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF69C3.A9FC80E0 Hello About two months ago I wrote Joe Arguello asking if= reel in trade, I didn't receive a reply so I assumed this was something = trade secret.You can hardly blame anyone who has done the leg = research and learned to make what amounts to a fine piece of jewelry not= to give it away.Since then I have found that everything needed to = information. best rods are being = today.www.angelfire.com/in2/r= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF69C3.A9FC80E0-- from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 28 18:22:03 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:19:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Fw: Stripping Guides Check eBay and you can almost always find slabbed agate in many colors. Maysave a little bit of the labor of slabbing your own. -----Original Message----- Subject: re: Fw: Stripping Guides You can get the Diamond Core drill bits through Rio Grande for a prettyreasonable price. REC may work with you in ordering mildrum styleframeswithout the rings. You might have to get a quantity. Joe Arguello ofRockyMtn. Cane is very helpful in explaining the process of making them in yourshop one at a time. A silversmithing class would be very helpful aswouldaccess to lapidary equipment for slabbing the agate. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- From: "Randall Gregory" , on 1/22/00 9:32 AM: ----- Original Message -----From: Randall Gregory Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 11:22 AMSubject: RE: Stripping Guides Since everyone is talking about guides, I have previously seen postsregarding making one's own agate stripping guides. The responses wereusuallyminimal. I was just wondering if this is a coveted craft or just nottypically practiced by the average rodmaker. I have pursued finding thetooling for this practice and think I may have found some yet I'm unsureasto exactly what I should be looking for. I rarely respond to the listbecauseI like the challenge of research yet this aspect of rodbuilding has beenmoredifficult than usual. Would anyone be able to lend some Information ontheproper (lapidary?) tooling? It would probably be appreciated by myselfandmany others. Much appreciated, Randall R. Gregory (Northwest Arkansas) from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan 28 22:50:08 2000 Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:50:01 -0800 Subject: Re: FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper Darell,Is this measured flat to flat, or apex to apex? I very muchappreciateyour efforts, but these numbers seem a little large to me. Just wondering,Harry "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: After MANY requests for this taper, I took the measurements. This is a 9'3piece rod. Notes:The tip section was 1/2" short at the tip top. First measurement wouldbeapproximately 2" below where the original length section would havebeen or1.5" from the top of the current length of the rod today. measurement was 33"- .294" and 37" - .302". Or you can decide on yourownnumber. All measurements were a single measurement. This rod was completed January 30, 1941 and the first owner was S.S.Bauerswho bought it on May 20, 1941. This has a half Wells grip and is a 6 ozrodaccording to the original FE Thomas records. .178 2".197 7".219 etc. 5" inter- vals.240.263.272.283.298.312.340.365.370.380.390.395.404.415.435.458.555 Sorry, this is my first attempt at measuring a rod... I'm willing toremeasure if someone wants to give me some pointers... But it has to beASAPas this rod is sold and will be packaged and shipped in a couple of hours.If this is good, please let me know so I can go ahead and pack the rod. Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from stpete@netten.net Sat Jan 29 09:23:48 2000 Subject: Ferrule Making 101 Guys, I'm snowed in for the weekend and am working on tuning up mymini- lathe. I plan on teaching myself how to make ferrules. Does anyone have any good first hand advice about making ferrules forthe complete novice. (I have turned a few mandrels and practice pieces,otherwise I am a real novice to lathes and metalworking.) I need info on:1. soldering NS2. finishing bits for the lathe3. any tips which I might not be aware of4. acceptable tolerances on the lathe/chuck before I get started5. how much oversize do I make the male so that I won't spend aneternity finish fitting the ferrule after installing on the rod. Thanks,Rick Crenshaw from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 29 09:41:03 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:31:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 I have just ordered in special reamers, to also make my own ferrules.Travers Tool has decimal sizes, in just about .001" variations, and theseallow close tolerance control. Average cost is under $10/ea. in thesesmaller sizes. In N.S., you want a wall thickness in the .015"/.020" range,depending on the size. In reaming, you drill the pilot hole, so that you are only removing.002"/.004" , for the final I.D ream. You do this at very slow speed, andwith good lube flow on the tool. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule Making 101 Guys, I'm snowed in for the weekend and am working on tuning up mymini- lathe. I plan on teaching myself how to make ferrules. Does anyone have any good first hand advice about making ferrules forthe complete novice. (I have turned a few mandrels and practice pieces,otherwise I am a real novice to lathes and metalworking.) I need info on:1. soldering NS2. finishing bits for the lathe3. any tips which I might not be aware of4. acceptable tolerances on the lathe/chuck before I get started5. how much oversize do I make the male so that I won't spend aneternity finish fitting the ferrule after installing on the rod. Thanks,Rick Crenshaw from leroyt@involved.com Sat Jan 29 10:18:05 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:15:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Are you making the ferrules from tubing or bar stock? from stpete@netten.net Sat Jan 29 10:39:01 2000 Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:41:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 I have tubing and hope to use it as the machine time would be shorter,but I also have some solid. Using solid might be easier since I won'thave to solder, but you waste material and takes longer to machine. Right? Rick leroy teeple wrote: Are you making the ferrules from tubing or bar stock? from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jan 29 10:39:51 2000 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Rick,if you have had very little maching experience get a book on lathe workandpractice. It will take a little longer than a snowed in weekend, ferrulesare not an easy project for a novice.There are drawing dimensions out there for Super Zs (possibly on this list)Terry Rick C. wrote: Guys, I'm snowed in for the weekend and am working on tuning up mymini- lathe. I plan on teaching myself how to make ferrules. Does anyone have any good first hand advice about making ferrules forthe complete novice. (I have turned a few mandrels and practice pieces,otherwise I am a real novice to lathes and metalworking.) I need info on:1. soldering NS2. finishing bits for the lathe3. any tips which I might not be aware of4. acceptable tolerances on the lathe/chuck before I get started5. how much oversize do I make the male so that I won't spend aneternity finish fitting the ferrule after installing on the rod. Thanks,Rick Crenshaw from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Jan 29 10:51:50 2000 Subject: Fw: Vol. 2 iss. 1/2 List:FYIEd-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Vol. 2 iss. 1/2 Ed, Mid February. THX TBFR Ed Riddle wrote: When will this issue be mailed? TIA. Ed Riddle from stpete@netten.net Sat Jan 29 10:53:39 2000 Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:55:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Thanks for the advice, Terry. Someone has already mentioned that Ishould start to practice on brass. They also gave good advice on how toachieve a true round hole or bore. They suggested double reaming. sounds reasonable to a novice. How about boring? would that be betteror is reaming the way to go? Rick C.TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Rick,if you have had very little maching experience get a book on lathe workandpractice. It will take a little longer than a snowed in weekend, ferrulesare not an easy project for a novice.There are drawing dimensions out there for Super Zs (possibly on thislist)Terry Rick C. wrote: Guys, I'm snowed in for the weekend and am working on tuning up mymini- lathe. I plan on teaching myself how to make ferrules. Does anyone have any good first hand advice about making ferrules forthe complete novice. (I have turned a few mandrels and practicepieces,otherwise I am a real novice to lathes and metalworking.) I need info on:1. soldering NS2. finishing bits for the lathe3. any tips which I might not be aware of4. acceptable tolerances on the lathe/chuck before I get started5. how much oversize do I make the male so that I won't spend aneternity finish fitting the ferrule after installing on the rod. Thanks,Rick Crenshaw from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 29 10:58:08 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:48:23 -0600 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Bar stock ! I plan on 1 - piece females, that require no soldering. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Are you making the ferrules from tubing or bar stock? from brookie@frii.com Sat Jan 29 11:16:06 2000 Subject: Re: Fw: Vol. 2 iss. 1/2 mmmm, this is in code or ? I'm curious too ... List:FYIEd-----Original Message-----From: The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 11:34 AMSubject: Re: Vol. 2 iss. 1/2 Ed, Mid February. THX TBFR Ed Riddle wrote: When will this issue be mailed? TIA. Ed Riddle from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 29 11:17:06 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:07:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Well, my goal is high quality, not speed, or I'd just buy such items made from tubing. The amount of time spent, to make the cane blanks, deservesbetter ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 I have tubing and hope to use it as the machine time would be shorter,but I also have some solid. Using solid might be easier since I won'thave to solder, but you waste material and takes longer to machine.Right? Rick leroy teeple wrote: Are you making the ferrules from tubing or bar stock? from leroyt@involved.com Sat Jan 29 11:22:02 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:18:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 If you are using bar stock one can make the ferrules without any soldering,similar to REC.Use stub length screw machine drills for boring and leave at least .004material for the reamer to remove.Any tool shape that is designed to work on brass will do a good job on NS.Leroy......... from leroyt@involved.com Sat Jan 29 11:29:40 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:26:38 -0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Use stub length screw machine drills, leave at least .004 material for thereamer to work on. Use a good cutting lube.An tool shape that works on brass will work for NS.If you have to solder don't use a torch, to much stuff to clean up. I use ahot plate and a tin can.Leroy........... from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 29 12:06:11 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:03:37 -0600 Subject: Impregnation test again... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_029A_01BF6A50.E8ADDEA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_029A_01BF6A50.E8ADDEA0 Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I tore up after =impregnating. Look at this =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/Breaktest.bmp .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time and trying to =tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it was getting =harder and harder to break. The image is three peices that I broke on =three different days. Since I impregnated the rod, and cured it as =described in the first email about this, it has been just sitting in my =house at room temp, and I guess just curing away on it's own. Someone =suggested that the first break looked like the cane was WET when it =broke, and even though it didn't feel wet, it well may have been wet, =relative to a untreated section of cane. Well, as the days have passed, =it started breaking more like cane should (that sounds bad, I know, but =IF one has to break, we would want it to break with certain =characteristics, right) The lower photo is this mornings break, and =this stuff was tougher than harness leather to break. As you can see in =the photos, the longer it just sat around the house, the tougher it got! =I'm just curious to see what it will do in another week, or two, or in = Anyways, look at the pics if you like and make your own judgements, = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_029A_01BF6A50.E8ADDEA0 Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I tore up = .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time and = tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it was getting = email about this, it has been just sitting in my house at room temp, and = looked like the cane was WET when it broke, and even though it didn't = it well may have been wet, relative to a untreated section of = as the days have passed, it started breaking more like cane should (that = bad, I know, but IF one has to break, we would want it to break with = photos, the longer it just sat around the house, the tougher it = I'm just curious to see what it will do in another week, or two, or in a = judgements, but I think the longer this sets, the tougher it = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_029A_01BF6A50.E8ADDEA0-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 29 12:31:38 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:29:03 -0600 Subject: Fw: Impregnation test again... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02DF_01BF6A54.75B73000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02DF_01BF6A54.75B73000 Wow, that BMP file takes forever to load, so I killed it and replaced it =with a jpeg... try this one instead of the previous... =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/break.jpgThat should be a little quickerBob -----Original Message----- Subject: Impregnation test again... Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I tore up after =impregnating. Look at this =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/Breaktest.bmp .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time and trying to =tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it was getting =harder and harder to break. The image is three peices that I broke on =three different days. Since I impregnated the rod, and cured it as =described in the first email about this, it has been just sitting in my =house at room temp, and I guess just curing away on it's own. Someone =suggested that the first break looked like the cane was WET when it =broke, and even though it didn't feel wet, it well may have been wet, =relative to a untreated section of cane. Well, as the days have passed, =it started breaking more like cane should (that sounds bad, I know, but =IF one has to break, we would want it to break with certain =characteristics, right) The lower photo is this mornings break, and =this stuff was tougher than harness leather to break. As you can see in =the photos, the longer it just sat around the house, the tougher it got! =I'm just curious to see what it will do in another week, or two, or in = Anyways, look at the pics if you like and make your own judgements, = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_02DF_01BF6A54.75B73000 Wow, that BMP file takes foreverto = killed it and replaced it with a jpeg... try this one instead of the = http:/=/members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/break.jpgThat should be a little =quickerBob -----Original = = List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:07 PMSubject:Impregnation = again...Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I tore up = .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time and = tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it was getting = email about this, it has been just sitting in my house at room temp, and = looked like the cane was WET when it broke, and even though it didn't = it well may have been wet, relative to a untreated section of = as the days have passed, it started breaking more like cane should (that = bad, I know, but IF one has to break, we would want it to break with = photos, the longer it just sat around the house, the tougher it = I'm just curious to see what it will do in another week, or two, or in a = judgements, but I think the longer this sets, the tougher it = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_02DF_01BF6A54.75B73000-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jan 29 12:32:40 2000 Subject: Break testing impregnated strips As promised, results of break testing an impregnated strip. I had two strips from right next to each other from the culm,one I impregnated with polyurethane varnish and one leftuntreated. The impregnated strip was stiffer and heavier as expected.Breaking characteristics were very different. It took moreforce to break the impregnated strip, but when it brokeit snapped quickly and cleanly leaving very little of thefibers in the "paintbrush" appearance as mentioned inthe Garrison book. The untreated strip would begin tobreak, take on a severe set or kink, but wouldn't snapapart in two pieces as the impregnated strip did. In factto get the untreated strip apart in two pieces I had tobend it back and forth a few times. Conclusions I drew from this are:An impregnated rod will be heavier, all other factorsbeing equal. It might be stiffer, with less tendency totake a set, but when (if) the breaking stress is reachedit will fail with no warning where an unimpregnatedcane rod will take a set (warning to quit!) and might be repairable. I think polyurethane impregnation is a workable process,and with a few adjustments in the stress curve (don'tlet the max stress get too high and raise the minumumstress a bit), I think a polyurethane impregnated rod will be okay - still cast nicely, still catch fish, and be less of a worry as far as humidity and care is concerned. Next step is to make a complete rod, impregnate it andfish it all next season. I do have 6 quad tip sections planedout....Darryl from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 29 13:32:32 2000 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:31:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Vol. 2 iss. 1/2 What a crock! Jack -----Original Message----- Subject: Fw: Vol. 2 iss. 1/2 List:FYIEd-----Original Message-----From: The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 11:34 AMSubject: Re: Vol. 2 iss. 1/2 Ed, Mid February. THX TBFR Ed Riddle wrote: When will this issue be mailed? TIA. Ed Riddle from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat Jan 29 20:32:50 2000 Subject: Re: Impregnation test again... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6A87.492A4760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6A87.492A4760 Looks like you were getting into the butt. How does a smaller section =break now? Jim Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 11:29 AMSubject: Fw: Impregnation test again... Wow, that BMP file takes forever to load, so I killed it and replaced =it with a jpeg... try this one instead of the previous... =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/break.jpgThat should be a little quickerBob -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:07 PMSubject: Impregnation test again... Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I tore up after =impregnating. Look at this =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/Breaktest.bmp .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time and trying =to tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it was getting =harder and harder to break. The image is three peices that I broke on =three different days. Since I impregnated the rod, and cured it as =described in the first email about this, it has been just sitting in my =house at room temp, and I guess just curing away on it's own. Someone =suggested that the first break looked like the cane was WET when it =broke, and even though it didn't feel wet, it well may have been wet, =relative to a untreated section of cane. Well, as the days have passed, =it started breaking more like cane should (that sounds bad, I know, but =IF one has to break, we would want it to break with certain =characteristics, right) The lower photo is this mornings break, and =this stuff was tougher than harness leather to break. As you can see in =the photos, the longer it just sat around the house, the tougher it got! =I'm just curious to see what it will do in another week, or two, or in = Anyways, look at the pics if you like and make your own = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6A87.492A4760 Bob, Looks like you were getting into the = a smaller section break now? Jim ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Saturday, January 29, = AMSubject: Fw: Impregnation again... Wow, that BMP file takesforever = previous... http:/=/members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/break.jpgThat should be a little =quickerBob -----Original = = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:07 PMSubject: = again...Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I tore up = .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time and = tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it was getting = in the first email about this, it has been just sitting in my house at = the first break looked like the cane was WET when it broke, and even = didn't feel wet, it well may have been wet, relative to a untreated = should (that sounds bad, I know, but IF one has to break, we would = = own judgements, but I think the longer this sets, the tougher it = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6A87.492A4760-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 29 20:58:51 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:56:03 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Impregnation test again... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03E4_01BF6A9B.47A47AA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01BF6A9B.47A47AA0 That section I made was actually the same dimensions as the center =section of my 6' 3pc 4 wt., so the breaks are all in sections no larger =than .205 , and no smaller than .155. The section (what is left of it) =seems to break consistenly from one end to the other. I was going to =abandon this for awhile, but after what I saw after the rod had set for =a few days, I may try to build an entire rod like this and just punish =it relentlessly and see how it holds up, AND what happens to the action. = Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnation test again... Looks like you were getting into the butt. How does a smaller =section break now? Jim Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 11:29 AMSubject: Fw: Impregnation test again... Wow, that BMP file takes forever to load, so I killed it and =replaced it with a jpeg... try this one instead of the previous... =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/break.jpgThat should be a little quickerBob -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:07 PMSubject: Impregnation test again... Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I tore up =after impregnating. Look at this =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/Breaktest.bmp .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time and =trying to tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it was =getting harder and harder to break. The image is three peices that I =broke on three different days. Since I impregnated the rod, and cured =it as described in the first email about this, it has been just sitting =in my house at room temp, and I guess just curing away on it's own. =Someone suggested that the first break looked like the cane was WETwhen =it broke, and even though it didn't feel wet, it well may have been wet, =relative to a untreated section of cane. Well, as the days have passed, =it started breaking more like cane should (that sounds bad, I know, but =IF one has to break, we would want it to break with certain =characteristics, right) The lower photo is this mornings break, and =this stuff was tougher than harness leather to break. As you can see in =the photos, the longer it just sat around the house, the tougher it got! =I'm just curious to see what it will do in another week, or two, or in = Anyways, look at the pics if you like and make your own = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01BF6A9B.47A47AA0 That section I made was actuallythe = dimensions as the center section of my 6' 3pc 4 wt., so the breaks are = is left of it) seems to break consistenly from one end to the = going to abandon this for awhile, but after what I saw after the rod had = a few days, I may try to build an entire rod like this and just punish = Bob -----Original = caneman@clnk.com Makers = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:37 PMSubject: Re: = again... Bob, Looks like you were getting into = does a smaller section break now? Jim ----- Original Message ----- = Bob = Sent: Saturday, January = 11:29 AMSubject: Fw: Impregnation = again... Wow, that BMP file takes = load, so I killed it and replaced it with a jpeg... try this one = of the previous... http:/=/members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/break.jpg quickerBob Rod Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:07 PMSubject: = test again...Well, I may have spoke too soon about the section that I = .I have been playing with the rod section in my spare time = trying to tear it up even more, but found as the days passed, it = cured it as described in the first email about this, it has been = sitting in my house at room temp, and I guess just curing away = was WET when it broke, and even though it didn't feel wet, it = the days have passed, it started breaking more like cane should = sounds bad, I know, but IF one has to break, we would want it to = mornings break, and this stuff was tougher than harness leather = your own judgements, but I think the longer this sets, the = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_03E4_01BF6A9B.47A47AA0-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Jan 30 05:17:58 2000 Subject: Ron Barch Guys,Could someone send me Ron's email addy? Either the one I have isn't anygood or I just don't know how to use this computerized boat anchor .Thanks, Mike from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Jan 30 09:18:25 2000 Subject: Ron Barch Both Tony and John sent me Ron's address, so please ignor my previouspost,and thanks guys! Mike from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 11:15:18 2000 2000 09:15:12 PST Subject: MANY Rodbuilding tools and supplies for sale A list of rodbuilding tools and supplies for sale canbe found at http://www.mindspring.com/~linkisdn. Contact me offlist if interested. I would preferselling the lot as one, but individual prices areincluded. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from listreader@codemarine.com Sun Jan 30 11:34:02 2000 bycodemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'll continueto be ashelpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm an ametuer,I'm tryingto keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven made of heat gun and metalpipe, dip tubemade by wrapping the heating element from an electric blanket around aflorescent lightprotector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can I dothis successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could be wrong,but a properlathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques? I'm sure I could sand byhand, but I'mworried about installing the ferrules off- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 30 11:52:26 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Steve I have my student mount their ferrules in class w/o using a latheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to do the job. Use a dowel to get the depth of the ferrule and transfer that markto your blank so you will know where the ferrule ends. This gives you thearea that youneedto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil on one flat of the blank. Call ittop deadcenter (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple of passes on the edge of theflat. Now rotatethe blankone flat and make the same number of passes on the edge and continueuntil you return toTDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn't fit - then take a few morepasses all theway around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keep track of where you are. When the ferrule begins to fit on - you can turn it and it will leaveblack markson the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of them and you will end up with anice fit. Itjust takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a good fit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'll continueto be ashelpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm an ametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven made ofheat gun andmetal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heating element from an electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can Ido this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could be wrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques? I'msure I couldsand by hand, but I'm worried about installing the ferrules off- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 30 12:40:49 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:38:13 -0600 Subject: lathe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_048D_01BF6B1E.7DEF7820" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_048D_01BF6B1E.7DEF7820 off = Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_048D_01BF6B1E.7DEF7820 Guys, Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_048D_01BF6B1E.7DEF7820-- from mark_lang@tnb.com Sun Jan 30 13:55:39 2000 SVR4) with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:39:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Steve,I like the idea of the heating blanket element. I am going to give it a try. "Steve Zimmerman" 01/30/00 11:36AM I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'll continueto be ashelpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm an ametuer,I'm tryingto keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven made of heat gun and metalpipe, dip tubemade by wrapping the heating element from an electric blanket around aflorescent lightprotector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can I dothis successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could be wrong,but a properlathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques? I'm sure I could sand byhand, but I'mworried about installing the ferrules off- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 30 14:26:37 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Another idea is a pipe ribbon heater that is used to keep plumbing from freezing. (This was Art Port's recommendation) I used it with my tube and some foam pipe insulation around both. I can get 95* in about 45 minutes. In the meantime, I put my blanks waiting to be dipped into my drying cabinet and they come out perfect for dipping.I would be wary of ripping out things to use as a heater. I assume the pipe heaters are at least a bit waterproof. You will spill thinner or varnish on the tube some day.Good luck,Bob At 01:39 PM 1/30/00 -0600, you wrote:Steve,I like the idea of the heating blanket element. I am going to give it a try. "Steve Zimmerman" 01/30/00 11:36AM I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'll continue to be as helpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm an ametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven made of heat gun and metal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heating element from an electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mount ferrules. Can I do this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could be wrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques? I'm sure I could sand by hand, but I'm worried about installing the ferrules off- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from mfozog@imt.net Sun Jan 30 14:43:25 2000 Subject: heating oven Is there anybody out there that builds and sells strip heating ovenslike the one in Cattanach or Howells book? I would like to buy one.Please respond off the list if you would like. Mark Ozog from listreader@codemarine.com Sun Jan 30 14:48:41 2000 bycodemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Ribbon Heater, was RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? I like the idea of a pipe ribbon heater, too, and that's what I tried first.Unfortunately, the one I bought at Home Depot and it doesn't seem to getwarm. As best Ican tell from looking at it, it has a "smart" design in that it has aninternalthermostat and only turns on when the temperature gets near freezing.That doesn't work and gutted anold electric blanket. I've tried it with water and I like the fact that it hasatemperature control dial that goes from 1-10. The highest setting got thewater quitewarm--probably too warm even in my 40 degree garage. If there'sinterest, when I get thething tweaked and completed I'll send an email with a link to a picture ofit. YMMV, but the internal wires of an electric blanket are at least somewhatwaterproof--otherwise there would be liability issues with folks whowet the bed :) Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 3:24 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Another idea is a pipe ribbon heater that is used to keep plumbing from freezing. (This was Art Port's recommendation) I used it with my tube and some foam pipe insulation around both. I can get 95* in about 45 minutes. In the meantime, I put my blanks waiting to be dipped into my drying cabinet and they come out perfect for dipping.I would be wary of ripping out things to use as a heater. I assume the pipe heaters are at least a bit waterproof. You will spill thinner or varnish on the tube some day.Good luck,Bob from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 30 14:58:45 2000 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Rick,never heard of double reaming, what is it? Just drill and ream, but makesureyou do this first.Terry Rick C. wrote: Thanks for the advice, Terry. Someone has already mentioned that Ishould start to practice on brass. They also gave good advice on how toachieve a true round hole or bore. They suggested double reaming.sounds reasonable to a novice. How about boring? would that be betteror is reaming the way to go? Rick C.TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Rick,if you have had very little maching experience get a book on lathe workandpractice. It will take a little longer than a snowed in weekend, ferrulesare not an easy project for a novice.There are drawing dimensions out there for Super Zs (possibly on thislist)Terry Rick C. wrote: Guys, I'm snowed in for the weekend and am working on tuning up mymini- lathe. I plan on teaching myself how to make ferrules. Does anyone have any good first hand advice about making ferrules forthe complete novice. (I have turned a few mandrels and practicepieces,otherwise I am a real novice to lathes and metalworking.) I need info on:1. soldering NS2. finishing bits for the lathe3. any tips which I might not be aware of4. acceptable tolerances on the lathe/chuck before I get started5. how much oversize do I make the male so that I won't spend aneternity finish fitting the ferrule after installing on the rod. Thanks,Rick Crenshaw from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 30 15:21:50 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? what would the life expectancy be of a ferrule that only fitted where ittouched? I amsure it must only be a fraction of that of a correctly fitted ferrule. Chris Bogart wrote: Steve I have my student mount their ferrules in class w/o using a latheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to do the job. Use a dowel to get the depth of the ferrule and transfer that markto your blank so you will know where the ferrule ends. This gives you thearea that youneedto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil on one flat of the blank. Call ittop deadcenter (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple of passes on the edge of theflat. Nowrotate the blankone flat and make the same number of passes on the edge and continueuntil you returnto TDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn't fit - then take a few morepasses allthe way around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keep track of where you are. When the ferrule begins to fit on - you can turn it and it will leaveblackmarks on the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of them and you will end up with anice fit. Itjust takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a good fit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'llcontinue to be ashelpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm anametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven madeof heat gun andmetal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heating element froman electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can Ido this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could bewrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques?I'm sure I couldsand by hand, but I'm worried about installing the ferrules off-center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 30 15:29:45 2000 Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:32:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Making 101 Well, Terry, as I understand it, double reaming is drilling about .004undersized, then reaming about .002, then getting another reamer andreaming .002 more. That would be 20 to 24 reamers I'd need for 10ferrule sizes. At about 10 bucks each, that's $200! Glad to here thatis overkill. Rick C. TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Rick,never heard of double reaming, what is it? Just drill and ream, but makesureyou do this first.Terry Rick C. wrote: Thanks for the advice, Terry. Someone has already mentioned that Ishould start to practice on brass. They also gave good advice on how toachieve a true round hole or bore. They suggested double reaming.sounds reasonable to a novice. How about boring? would that be betteror is reaming the way to go? Rick C.TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Rick,if you have had very little maching experience get a book on lathework andpractice. It will take a little longer than a snowed in weekend,ferrulesare not an easy project for a novice.There are drawing dimensions out there for Super Zs (possibly on thislist)Terry Rick C. wrote: Guys, I'm snowed in for the weekend and am working on tuning up mymini- lathe. I plan on teaching myself how to make ferrules. Does anyone have any good first hand advice about making ferrulesforthe complete novice. (I have turned a few mandrels and practicepieces,otherwise I am a real novice to lathes and metalworking.) I need info on:1. soldering NS2. finishing bits for the lathe3. any tips which I might not be aware of4. acceptable tolerances on the lathe/chuck before I get started5. how much oversize do I make the male so that I won't spend aneternity finish fitting the ferrule after installing on the rod. Thanks,Rick Crenshaw from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 30 15:38:16 2000 Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Steve,You cannot get away without spending some money, already!You really need to spin the male to remove metal evenly.Why not purchase a small drill press, they are very cheap and you can putthe maleferrule in the chuck. You could mount the female on the blank, turn thedrill press onits side and gradually reduce the male to fit the female (check often!). Itis possibleto do some limited turning on a drill press by clamping a tool bit onto thetable!I am looking at a small drill press now in a flyer with a price of$69.99CAN. I use mysmall drill press so often I would be lost without it .Anyway, think about it. Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'll continueto be ashelpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm an ametuer,I'm tryingto keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven made of heat gun and metalpipe, dip tubemade by wrapping the heating element from an electric blanket around aflorescent lightprotector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can Ido this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could be wrong,but a properlathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques? I'm sure I could sand byhand, but I'mworried about installing the ferrules off- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from martinjensen@home.com Sun Jan 30 16:05:07 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:04:20 -0800 Subject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Are you saying that you need a lathe to fit the ferrule station? In aprevious post (related I believe) you mentioned a drill press. How are yougoing to mount the rod in a drill press? As I understand the originalquestion, it was about fitting ferrules to the rod blank NOT fitting ferruleto ferrule. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- ACKLAND Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? what would the life expectancy be of a ferrule that only fitted where ittouched? I am sure it must only be a fraction of that of a correctly fittedferrule. Chris Bogart wrote: Steve I have my student mount their ferrules in class w/o using a latheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to do the job. Use a dowel to get the depth of the ferrule and transfer that markto your blank so you will know where the ferrule ends. This gives you thearea that you needto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil on one flat of the blank.Call it top dead center (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple of passes on the edge of theflat. Now rotate the blankone flat and make the same number of passes on the edge and continueuntilyou return to TDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn't fit - then take a few morepasses all the way around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keep track of where you are. When the ferrule begins to fit on - you can turn it and it willleave black marks on the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of them and you will end up with anice fit. It just takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a good fit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'llcontinue to be as helpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far.Since I'm anametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven madeofheat gun and metal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heating elementfroman electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can I do this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? Icould bewrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques?I'msure I could sand by hand, but I'm worried about installing the ferrulesoff-center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from martinjensen@home.com Sun Jan 30 16:49:18 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:49:13 -0800 Subject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? No problem. I just bought a lathe so I am looking at the posts regardingthem with a little more interest now. I am going to have to tweak it alittle to get it to run with the tolerances I would like though. It is oneof those Central Tool Chinese Lathe Milling machines. Seems pretty nicefora "starter lathe" though, (with some tweaking) Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Sorry, I misread that, it is these dollar store spectacles.Ferrules seem to be supplied with generous amounts to remove to makethemfit sothe advise is still good. I just did not imagine anyone requiring advice onremoving 6 corners.My cue to give the list a rest. Sorry about that once again.Terry Ackland Martin Jennies wrote: Are you saying that you need a lathe to fit the ferrule station? In aprevious post (related I believe) you mentioned a drill press. How are yougoing to mount the rod in a drill press? As I understand the originalquestion, it was about fitting ferrules to the rod blank NOT fittingferruleto ferrule. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ACKLANDSent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:25 PM Cc: listreader@codemarine.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? what would the life expectancy be of a ferrule that only fitted where ittouched? I am sure it must only be a fraction of that of a correctlyfittedferrule. Chris Bogart wrote: Steve I have my student mount their ferrules in class w/o using alatheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to do the job. Use a dowel to get the depth of the ferrule and transfer thatmarkto your blank so you will know where the ferrule ends. This gives youthearea that you needto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil on one flat of the blank.Call it top dead center (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple of passes on the edge of theflat. Now rotate the blankone flat and make the same number of passes on the edge and continueuntilyou return to TDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn't fit - then take a fewmorepasses all the way around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keep track of where you are. When the ferrule begins to fit on - you can turn it and it willleave black marks on the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of them and you will end up withanice fit. It just takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a good fit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'llcontinue to be as helpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far.Since I'm anametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat ovenmadeofheat gun and metal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heating elementfroman electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can I do this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? Icould bewrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques?I'msure I could sand by hand, but I'm worried about installing the ferrulesoff-center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 17:08:14 2000 2000 15:08:11 PST Subject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? There is a Sherline as part of the tools & equip thatI have for sale, if anyone is interested. Check thelist athttp://www.mindspring.com/~linkisdn/rodbuild.txt Jeff Ramsey --- Martin Jensen wrote:No problem. I just bought a lathe so I am looking atthe posts regardingthem with a little more interest now. I am going tohave to tweak it alittle to get it to run with the tolerances I wouldlike though. It is oneof those Central Tool Chinese Lathe Millingmachines. Seems pretty nice fora "starter lathe" though, (with some tweaking) Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 2:27 PM Cc: cbogart@shentel.net; listreader@codemarine.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Sorry, I misread that, it is these dollar storespectacles.Ferrules seem to be supplied with generous amountsto remove to make themfit sothe advise is still good. I just did not imagineanyone requiring advice onremoving 6 corners.My cue to give the list a rest. Sorry about thatonce again.Terry Ackland Martin Jennies wrote: Are you saying that you need a lathe to fit theferrule station? In aprevious post (related I believe) you mentioned adrill press. How are yougoing to mount the rod in a drill press? As Iunderstand the originalquestion, it was about fitting ferrules to the rodblank NOT fittingferruleto ferrule. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of TERENCE ACKLANDSent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:25 PM Cc: listreader@codemarine.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? what would the life expectancy be of a ferrulethat only fitted where ittouched? I am sure it must only be a fraction ofthat of a correctlyfittedferrule. Chris Bogart wrote: Steve I have my student mount their ferrulesin class w/o using alatheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to dothe job. Use a dowel to get the depth of theferrule and transfer thatmarkto your blank so you will know where the ferruleends. This gives youthearea that you needto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil onone flat of the blank.Call it top dead center (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple ofpasses on the edge of theflat. Now rotate the blankone flat and make the same number of passes onthe edge and continueuntilyou return to TDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn'tfit - then take a fewmorepasses all the way around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keeptrack of where you are. When the ferrule begins to fit on - youcan turn it and it willleave black marks on the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of themand you will end up withanice fit. It just takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a goodfit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, SteveZimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in thepast and I hope you'llcontinue to be as helpful as at other times.Thanks for the help so far.Since I'm anametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding ofheat gun and metal pipe, dip tube made by wrappingthe heating elementfroman electric blanket around a florescent lightprotector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to thepoint where I need to mountferrules. Can I do this successfully withouthaving to purchase a lathe? Icould bewrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. I'msure I could sand by hand, but I'm worried aboutinstalling the ferrulesoff- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from listreader@codemarine.com Sun Jan 30 17:08:50 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Actually, I've read that a lathe is typically used for both tasks so theadvice on allcounts is very helpful. I'll try these suggestions and let ya'll know. Thanks! Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 5:27 PM Cc: cbogart@shentel.net; listreader@codemarine.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Sorry, I misread that, it is these dollar store spectacles.Ferrules seem to be supplied with generous amounts to remove to make them fit sothe advise is still good. I just did not imagine anyone requiring advice onremoving 6 corners.My cue to give the list a rest. Sorry about that once again.Terry Ackland from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 30 17:51:51 2000 Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:51:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Steve,I was in the same boat as you. You can have allot of the toys forfree/cheap ifyou are willing to work. I built my own wooden forms, metal forms, heattreating oven,binder and lots of other gadgets and it didn't cost me more than $100dollars and with abit of diligence, patience and elbow grease they work as good(in somecases better! thanwhat's available tobuy).Back to your original question. I built my own lathe for turning rodferrulestations and grips.It might cost you a little if you aren't a good scroungebut it can bedone for less than a screwed up blank is worth. Here is how I did it (by theway I ownthe patent : I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'll continueto be ashelpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm an ametuer,I'm tryingto keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven made of heat gun and metalpipe, dip tubemade by wrapping the heating element from an electric blanket around aflorescent lightprotector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can Ido this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could be wrong,but a properlathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques? I'm sure I could sand byhand, but I'mworried about installing the ferrules off- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Jan 30 20:56:09 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Nodeless Rods I was wondering if any one on this list builds nodeless rods and how muchmore time it takes.Ernie from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Jan 30 21:21:23 2000 Subject: Re: My problems with varnish impregnating. In a message dated 1/28/00 2:44:17 PM Central Standard Time, hexagon@odyssee.net writes: Terry: Granted. Looks like the least complicated way to me. RTyree from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Sun Jan 30 21:28:57 2000 E-Mail VirusWallNT); Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:24:28 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Nodeless Rods Hi Ernie,I'm on my third nodeless rod and am really happy with theresults.I don't think it should take any longer to build nodeless rods,because the time taken to remove nodes and splice strips together negatesthe need to flatten, heat and straighten nodes. Both operations probablytake a similar amount of time.A couple of advantages of nodeless construction are that you canheat treat in your kitchen oven, and there is very little wastage ofbamboo.Give it a go and the worst thing that can happen is that you willlearn a few things along the way. Best of luck Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Nodeless Rods I was wondering if any one on this list builds nodeless rods and how muchmore time it takes.Ernie from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jan 30 23:19:07 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:08:55 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? That little lathe will do what you want just fine. If you want to learn tomake close tolerance work well, then the bed must be anchored well, andthebed leveled in both directions, very carefully. Such a level, works to .004"in 20' ! What you want, is no twist in the bed. This keeps it from turningtapered diameters, i.e. ferrules. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? No problem. I just bought a lathe so I am looking at the posts regardingthem with a little more interest now. I am going to have to tweak it alittle to get it to run with the tolerances I would like though. It is oneof those Central Tool Chinese Lathe Milling machines. Seems pretty nicefora "starter lathe" though, (with some tweaking) Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 2:27 PM Cc: cbogart@shentel.net; listreader@codemarine.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Sorry, I misread that, it is these dollar store spectacles.Ferrules seem to be supplied with generous amounts to remove to makethemfit sothe advise is still good. I just did not imagine anyone requiring adviceonremoving 6 corners.My cue to give the list a rest. Sorry about that once again.Terry Ackland Martin Jennies wrote: Are you saying that you need a lathe to fit the ferrule station? In aprevious post (related I believe) you mentioned a drill press. How areyougoing to mount the rod in a drill press? As I understand the originalquestion, it was about fitting ferrules to the rod blank NOT fittingferruleto ferrule. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ACKLANDSent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:25 PM Cc: listreader@codemarine.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? what would the life expectancy be of a ferrule that only fitted where ittouched? I am sure it must only be a fraction of that of a correctlyfittedferrule. Chris Bogart wrote: Steve I have my student mount their ferrules in class w/o using alatheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to do the job. Use a dowel to get the depth of the ferrule and transfer thatmarkto your blank so you will know where the ferrule ends. This gives youthearea that you needto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil on one flat of the blank.Call it top dead center (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple of passes on the edge oftheflat. Now rotate the blankone flat and make the same number of passes on the edge and continueuntilyou return to TDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn't fit - then take a fewmorepasses all the way around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keep track of where you are. When the ferrule begins to fit on - you can turn it and itwillleave black marks on the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of them and you will end upwithanice fit. It just takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a good fit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'llcontinue to be as helpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far.Since I'm anametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat ovenmadeofheat gun and metal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heating elementfroman electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need tomountferrules. Can I do this successfully without having to purchase a lathe?Icould bewrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques?I'msure I could sand by hand, but I'm worried about installing the ferrulesoff-center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from martinjensen@home.com Sun Jan 30 23:43:13 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:43:10 -0800 Subject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Right now I am planning on using it for making my reel seats. I switchedcareers a couple years ago and I don't have use of the lathe where I used towork. Right now I have about 30 real seats maybe 3/4 finished. I trued upthe face of the backing plate tonight ( it was out a lot!) and I may need toenlarge the three mounting holes for the chuck as I can't seem to get thechuck closer than .001 in. I would like to get it so close that I see nomovement on my indicator. I would imagine that if I was going to makeferrules I would need to get another measuring instrument, one thatmeasuresin .0001 increments! That will wait for the time being. Overall this (lathe)is pretty nice. I removed the backing plate and checked the run out on theshaft and there was absolutely none, so the backing plate was probablyjustcheaply made. As I said I have faced it off now and it is running true. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? That little lathe will do what you want just fine. If you want to learn tomake close tolerance work well, then the bed must be anchored well, andthebed leveled in both directions, very carefully. Such a level, works to .004"in 20' ! What you want, is no twist in the bed. This keeps it from turningtapered diameters, i.e. ferrules. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? No problem. I just bought a lathe so I am looking at the posts regardingthem with a little more interest now. I am going to have to tweak it alittle to get it to run with the tolerances I would like though. It is oneof those Central Tool Chinese Lathe Milling machines. Seems pretty nicefora "starter lathe" though, (with some tweaking) Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 2:27 PM Cc: cbogart@shentel.net; listreader@codemarine.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Sorry, I misread that, it is these dollar store spectacles.Ferrules seem to be supplied with generous amounts to remove to makethemfit sothe advise is still good. I just did not imagine anyone requiring adviceonremoving 6 corners.My cue to give the list a rest. Sorry about that once again.Terry Ackland Martin Jennies wrote: Are you saying that you need a lathe to fit the ferrule station? In aprevious post (related I believe) you mentioned a drill press. How areyougoing to mount the rod in a drill press? As I understand the originalquestion, it was about fitting ferrules to the rod blank NOT fittingferruleto ferrule. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ACKLANDSent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:25 PM Cc: listreader@codemarine.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? what would the life expectancy be of a ferrule that only fitted where ittouched? I am sure it must only be a fraction of that of a correctlyfittedferrule. Chris Bogart wrote: Steve I have my student mount their ferrules in class w/o using alatheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to do the job. Use a dowel to get the depth of the ferrule and transfer thatmarkto your blank so you will know where the ferrule ends. This gives youthearea that you needto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil on one flat of the blank.Call it top dead center (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple of passes on the edge oftheflat. Now rotate the blankone flat and make the same number of passes on the edge and continueuntilyou return to TDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn't fit - then take a fewmorepasses all the way around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keep track of where you are. When the ferrule begins to fit on - you can turn it and itwillleave black marks on the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of them and you will end upwithanice fit. It just takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a good fit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'llcontinue to be as helpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far.Since I'm anametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat ovenmadeofheat gun and metal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heating elementfroman electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need tomountferrules. Can I do this successfully without having to purchase a lathe?Icould bewrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques?I'msure I could sand by hand, but I'm worried about installing the ferrulesoff-center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Jan 31 01:35:55 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id UAA25985; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:30:38 +1300 Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? I have found that it is not a good idea to put the male ferule in the chuckof the drill or lathe . They can be squeezed slightly out of shape . Guesshow I know ? I use the following system that seems to work quite well. I initially usedit with an electric drill on its side held in a bench vice and now on thelathe. I use a drill bit a little smaller then the inside diamater of the maleferrule and wrap one or two layers of masking tape around it. Enough tomakeit a tight fit to slide the male ferrule over the top of it . The end of thedrill is put into the chuck and holds the male ferrule tight while it isspun and worked with sandpaper to get it down to size . The female ferrulecan be slid onto the end of it to check the fit. As Terry said it is a good ferrules that are fitted before being put on the rod are just a little looseonce on the rod ( guess how I worked this out too ) . I think it is becausethere is better leverage and grip on a ferrule once mounted then if tryingto fit ferrules without haveing a blank to hang on to. I know you can mount the male ferrule first and then fit for size byputtingthe blank holding the male ferrule in the lathe but I am a little cautiousabout having the raw blank around my lathe which has the usual amount ofoiland other liquids which could ruin the surface of a unfinished blank. Ian Kearney At 04:40 PM 30/01/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Steve,You cannot get away without spending some money, already!You really need to spin the male to remove metal evenly.Why not purchase a small drill press, they are very cheap and you can putthe male ferrule in the chuck. You could mount the female on the blank,turnthe drill press on its side and gradually reduce the male to fit the female(check often!). It is possible to do some limited turning on a drill press I am looking at a small drill press now in a flyer with a price of$69.99CAN. I use my small drill press so often I would be lost without it .Anyway, think about it. Steve Zimmerman wrote: from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jan 31 02:24:43 2000 Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:23:58 +0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I'd just add to what Ian says by saying you can place a male ferrule in achuck as long as you use the closest to fitting drill bit and only chuckthe ferrule just a little above the tabs but you need to be careful not tobe too savage with the sandpaper or you'll damage the ferrule.I make my own ferrules and I never dress them for a fit in the lathe. Iprefer to get as close as I can while making them then fit them to theblank and use a combination of fine file, waterstone and emery paper. Thedif between a good fit and a reject ferrule isn't much and I have therejects bin to prove it! Tony At 08:30 PM 1/31/00 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:I have found that it is not a good idea to put the male ferule in the chuckof the drill or lathe . They can be squeezed slightly out of shape . Guesshow I know ? I use the following system that seems to work quite well. I initially usedit with an electric drill on its side held in a bench vice and now on thelathe. I use a drill bit a little smaller then the inside diamater of the maleferrule and wrap one or two layers of masking tape around it. Enough tomakeit a tight fit to slide the male ferrule over the top of it . The end of thedrill is put into the chuck and holds the male ferrule tight while it isspun and worked with sandpaper to get it down to size . The femaleferrulecan be slid onto the end of it to check the fit. As Terry said it is a good ferrules that are fitted before being put on the rod are just a little looseonce on the rod ( guess how I worked this out too ) . I think it is becausethere is better leverage and grip on a ferrule once mounted then if tryingto fit ferrules without haveing a blank to hang on to. I know you can mount the male ferrule first and then fit for size byputtingthe blank holding the male ferrule in the lathe but I am a little cautiousabout having the raw blank around my lathe which has the usual amountof oiland other liquids which could ruin the surface of a unfinished blank. Ian Kearney At 04:40 PM 30/01/00 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote:Steve,You cannot get away without spending some money, already!You really need to spin the male to remove metal evenly.Why not purchase a small drill press, they are very cheap and you can putthe male ferrule in the chuck. You could mount the female on the blank,turnthe drill press on its side and gradually reduce the male to fit the female(check often!). It is possible to do some limited turning on a drill press I am looking at a small drill press now in a flyer with a price of$69.99CAN. I use my small drill press so often I would be lost without it.Anyway, think about it. Steve Zimmerman wrote: /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jan 31 05:08:16 2000 (MET) Subject: test from Norway from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Jan 31 08:49:33 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA26852 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id IAA24359 for ; Mon, 31 Jan Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Steve, In addition to what Chris described, I use my dial caliper as I roundthe corners of the Hex, to make sure that I'm getting a circle notat oval. Just turn the blank between the caliper jaws to make sure there is no high spot. If you color the ferrule station with a marker pen before you start,it is easlier to see how much you've taken off each corner.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hope you'll continueto be ashelpful as at other times. Thanks for the help so far. Since I'm an ametuer,I'm tryingto keep costs down (binding by hand, heat oven made of heat gun and metalpipe, dip tubemade by wrapping the heating element from an electric blanket around aflorescent lightprotector tube, etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need to mountferrules. Can Ido this successfully without having to purchase a lathe? I could be wrong,but a properlathe seems quite expensive. Ideas or techniques? I'm sure I could sand byhand, but I'mworried about installing the ferrules off- center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 31 09:28:46 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:29:19 -0600 Subject: Fw: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? It's very difficult to get a 3-jaw universal chuck, to more than .001" runout. One of the really smart things I did, many years ago, was to buy aBuckchuck ! This is a 3-jaw (or six) chuck, that can be adjusted to dead zero,after chucking a part, much like a 4 jaw. When I got mine, it was $156.Today they are over $500 ! It's probably saved me over $20K, in toolingsetup costs ! Without this feature, the only way I know to bring a part to dead true,after chucking it, is to use a 4-jaw chuck, and indicate it in. I have adial indicator with .1 spaced increments, and each one is for .0001" !Whenyou adjust the work, so that the needle doesn't move.......... that's deadtrue. If you chuck raw stock, in a 3 jaw chuck, that has run out, anything youmake, will be concentric, as long as, it's not removed from the chuck. Youcan both rough out a male ferrule, bore and ream in inside, put a livecenter in the reamed hole, and then do the finish turning to the outside.You then can part it off, using the steadying of the live center, tosupportit while doing the cut off. Learning to turn mandrels, will also let you do accurate work, when youdon't have a concentric chuck. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Martin Jensen" Cc: ; ; Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 11:43 PMSubject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Right now I am planning on using it for making my reel seats. Iswitchedcareers a couple years ago and I don't have use of the lathe where Iusedtowork. Right now I have about 30 real seats maybe 3/4 finished. I truedupthe face of the backing plate tonight ( it was out a lot!) and I mayneedtoenlarge the three mounting holes for the chuck as I can't seem to getthechuck closer than .001 in. I would like to get it so close that I see nomovement on my indicator. I would imagine that if I was going to makeferrules I would need to get another measuring instrument, one thatmeasuresin .0001 increments! That will wait for the time being. Overall this(lathe)is pretty nice. I removed the backing plate and checked the run out ontheshaft and there was absolutely none, so the backing plate was probablyjustcheaply made. As I said I have faced it off now and it is running true. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 9:20 PM Cc: cbogart@shentel.net; listreader@codemarine.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? That little lathe will do what you want just fine. If you want to learntomake close tolerance work well, then the bed must be anchored well,andthebed leveled in both directions, very carefully. Such a level, works to.004"in 20' ! What you want, is no twist in the bed. This keeps it fromturningtapered diameters, i.e. ferrules. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Martin Jensen" Cc: ; ; Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 4:49 PMSubject: RE: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? No problem. I just bought a lathe so I am looking at the postsregardingthem with a little more interest now. I am going to have to tweak it alittle to get it to run with the tolerances I would like though. It isoneof those Central Tool Chinese Lathe Milling machines. Seems prettynicefora "starter lathe" though, (with some tweaking) Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 2:27 PM Cc: cbogart@shentel.net; listreader@codemarine.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? Sorry, I misread that, it is these dollar store spectacles.Ferrules seem to be supplied with generous amounts to remove tomakethemfit sothe advise is still good. I just did not imagine anyone requiringadviceonremoving 6 corners.My cue to give the list a rest. Sorry about that once again.Terry Ackland Martin Jennies wrote: Are you saying that you need a lathe to fit the ferrule station? Inaprevious post (related I believe) you mentioned a drill press. Howareyougoing to mount the rod in a drill press? As I understand theoriginalquestion, it was about fitting ferrules to the rod blank NOT fittingferruleto ferrule. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ACKLANDSent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:25 PM Cc: listreader@codemarine.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule prep w/o lathe?? what would the life expectancy be of a ferrule that only fittedwhereittouched? I am sure it must only be a fraction of that of acorrectlyfittedferrule. Chris Bogart wrote: Steve I have my student mount their ferrules in class w/o usingalatheexactly You can use your Mill Bastard File to do the job. Use a dowel to get the depth of the ferrule and transferthatmarkto your blank so you will know where the ferrule ends. This givesyouthearea that you needto reduce to fit your ferrule. Place a reference mark with a pencil on one flat of theblank.Call it top dead center (TDC) Now - starting at TDC make a couple of passes on the edgeoftheflat. Now rotate the blankone flat and make the same number of passes on the edge andcontinueuntilyou return to TDC. Try and fit the ferrule - If it doesn't fit - then take afewmorepasses all the way around as youdid before. The mark at TDC will help you keep track of where youare. When the ferrule begins to fit on - you can turn it and itwillleave black marks on the high spotsand a quick pass or two will take care of them and you will end upwithanice fit. It just takes a little patienceto do it but it does work and you get a good fit. Chris On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:34 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've posted several novice questions in the past and I hopeyou'llcontinue to be as helpful as at other times. Thanks for the help sofar.Since I'm anametuer, I'm trying to keep costs down (binding by hand, heat ovenmadeofheat gun and metal pipe, dip tube made by wrapping the heatingelementfroman electric blanket around a florescent light protector tube,etc). I've been learning as I go, and I'm to the point where I need tomountferrules. Can I do this successfully without having to purchase alathe?Icould bewrong, but a proper lathe seems quite expensive. Ideas ortechniques?I'msure I could sand by hand, but I'm worried about installing theferrulesoff-center. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from ctracy@ckan.com Mon Jan 31 12:41:07 2000 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:54:58 -0600 Subject: Drip tube question Question for the list . . . Is a flourescent bulb tube sturdy enought to have a pipe strip heaterattached to it without melting? TIA Chuck from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Jan 31 14:46:06 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id OAA16083 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id OAA24655 for ; Mon, 31 Jan Subject: Online hexrod problem One of our listmembers contacted me with a problem he is havingwith my online hexrod program. After changing the length ofa rod ("Modify rod fundamentals"), all the dimensions go to 0.Unfortunately, I can't recreate the problem myself. If anyoneelse has experienced this or has any insight please contact meofflist. Also, for anyone who had trouble in the past printing the stresscurve and dimension graphs, I finally gave up and changed the graphing software I was using and the problem is gone.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jbperez@mi.madritel.es Mon Jan 31 16:48:25 2000 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA354 +0100 Subject: RV: bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF6C45.8CA91E20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF6C45.8CA91E20 Subject: bamboo He would want them to inform me, where i can buy bamboo to manufacturefly fhising rods,prefereable in Spain (Madrid).tank you. Juan B. Perez jbperez@mi.madritel.es ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF6C45.8CA91E20 From: Perez Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 1:51 PMSubject: bamboo He would want them to inform me, where i can buy = manufacturefly fhising rods,prefereable in Spain =(Madrid).tank you. jbperez@mi.madritel.es ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF6C45.8CA91E20-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Mon Jan 31 21:44:11 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Splicing Block Does any one know where on the internet there are plans for making asplicing block?Ernie