from jcollier@siu.edu Tue Feb 1 08:46:07 2000 Subject: Small stream 3-4wt Hey guys, I'm looking for a short (7ft - 7 1/2ft) 3 to 4wt. Prefer amediumaction. E-mail me off list if you have something you are willing to get ridof. ThanksJohn Collier from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 10:31:21 2000 Subject: Testing before final assembly ot tomato stake alert! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF6CA7.95090DC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF6CA7.95090DC0 Guys,I've got what is probably a very rookie question for you but I would, =nonetheless, like a serious answer.Is there some way to 'test flight' a rod before gluing on the ferrules. =Why I'm asking is that due to inexperience (especially with this flamed =rod) I'm not overly sure whether or not the rod will function and was =wondering how to test cast it (a 3 pc.) without gluing the ferrules- of =course if that's the only way to test it, then no problem, because I can =always remove and reuse the ferrules if the rod is a bust. Any help would be mucho appreciated!! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF6CA7.95090DC0 Guys,I've got what is probably a very rookie= Is there some way to 'test flight' a = gluing on the ferrules. Why I'm asking is that due to inexperience = with this flamed rod) I'm not overly sure whether or not the rod will = and was wondering how to test cast it (a 3 pc.) without gluing the = course if that's the only way to test it, then no problem, because I can = remove and reuse the ferrules if the rod is a bust. Any help would be mucho =appreciated!! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF6CA7.95090DC0-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Feb 1 11:19:14 2000 Subject: Re: Testing before final assembly ot tomato stake alert! In a message dated 2/1/0 4:33:47 PM, mschaffer@mindspring.com writes: Mike-- I don't think there is anything really definitive you can do at this stage. I would relax and finish the rod. Unless you are really way off on your tolerances you should be OK. Ever if you are way off you may still get something usable. You can always take comfort from A.J. McClane'sobservation that there is no such thing as a fly rod that nobody likes. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Feb 1 13:50:22 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:36:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Testing before final assembly ot tomato stake alert! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02A7_01BF6CA0.3CEA04C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02A7_01BF6CA0.3CEA04C0 Michael,Go ahead and glue on the ferrules... a little heat will take them =back off if you decide to scrap the rod. Tape the guides on with =electrical tape where you plan to permanently mount them, slip a tight =fitting grip on it, and tape the reel in place with electrical tape. =Cast it, if you like it, start finishing, if not... well, back to the = Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: michael Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 10:31 AMSubject: Testing before final assembly ot tomato stake alert! Guys,I've got what is probably a very rookie question for you but I =would, nonetheless, like a serious answer.Is there some way to 'test flight' a rod before gluing on the =ferrules. Why I'm asking is that due to inexperience (especially with =this flamed rod) I'm not overly sure whether or not the rod will =function and was wondering how to test cast it (a 3 pc.) without gluing =the ferrules- of course if that's the only way to test it, then no =problem, because I can always remove and reuse the ferrules if the rod =is a bust. Any help would be mucho appreciated!! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_02A7_01BF6CA0.3CEA04C0 Michael, and glue on the ferrules... a little heat will take them back off if you = to permanently mount them, slip a tight fitting grip on it, and tape the = finishing, if not... well, back to the planing form. Later,Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, February 01, 2000 10:31 AMSubject: Testing = final assembly ot tomato stake alert!Guys,I've got what is probably a very = answer.Is there some way to 'test flight' = (especially with this flamed rod) I'm not overly sure whether or not = will function and was wondering how to test cast it (a 3 pc.) = the ferrules- of course if that's the only way to test it, then no = bust. appreciated!! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_02A7_01BF6CA0.3CEA04C0-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 1 14:15:02 2000 Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:14:56 -0800 Subject: Snake Brand guides Friends,Thought I would echo what Wayne Cattanach said a few weeks ago.I just received a very large ($3000+) order of guides from Mike McCoy atSnake Brand guides. I've never seen guides this nice. Nice to knowI'll never have to grind guide feet again!!I have no financial connection to Mike. I'm just a verysatisfied customer. When you need some guides, you will want to givethese serious consideration. Look for his website at www.snakebrand.com Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 1 14:31:33 2000 Subject: Re: Snake Brand guides Ooops,Wrong url. Try this link: http://www.snakeguides.com/ Sorry,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Thought I would echo what Wayne Cattanach said a few weeks ago.I just received a very large ($3000+) order of guides from Mike McCoy atSnake Brand guides. I've never seen guides this nice. Nice to knowI'll never have to grind guide feet again!!I have no financial connection to Mike. I'm just a verysatisfied customer. When you need some guides, you will want to givethese serious consideration. Look for his website atwww.snakebrand.com Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from plaisanc@pacifier.com Tue Feb 1 17:25:30 2000 Subject: help,anyone? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6AA8.5E86B640" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6AA8.5E86B640 I recently purchased (real cheap )a 3 piece split bamboo spin/fly combo =in a wooden box,the box is marked "sure strike"with a leaping fish .The =rod itself needs some work(not much)but all in all is in pretty good =shape.My question is has anyone heard of this brand,if so what can you =tell me about it.I appreciate any info.you can provide.thank you ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6AA8.5E86B640 I recently purchased (real cheap )a 3 = bamboo spin/fly combo in a wooden box,the box is marked "sure = leaping fish .The rod itself needs some work(not much)but all in all is = pretty good shape.My question is has anyone heard of this brand,if so = you ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF6AA8.5E86B640-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Feb 1 17:46:23 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:46:46 -0600 Subject: Re: help,anyone? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6CDC.6995E7A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6CDC.6995E7A0 I'm pretty sure you have one of the "kits" put out from Japan, in the =post WWII era. They came in many packages, some with 6 or 8 pieces for =different types of casting. I'm sure there are some fine rods, that come = from Japan now, but I'm afraid you have one of those that were pretty =poor in quality. GMA Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 12:29 AMSubject: help,anyone? I recently purchased (real cheap )a 3 piece split bamboo spin/fly =combo in a wooden box,the box is marked "sure strike"with a leaping fish =.The rod itself needs some work(not much)but all in all is in pretty =good shape.My question is has anyone heard of this brand,if so what can =you tell me about it.I appreciate any info.you can provide.thank you ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6CDC.6995E7A0 I'm pretty sure you have one of the "kits" put out from Japan, in = WWII era. They came in many packages, some with 6 or 8 pieces for = types of casting. I'm sure there are some fine rods, that come from = but I'm afraid you have one of those that were pretty poor in =quality. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Plaisance = Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 = AMSubject: help,anyone? I recently purchased (real cheap )a 3= bamboo spin/fly combo in a wooden box,the box is marked "sure = leaping fish .The rod itself needs some work(not much)but all in all = pretty good shape.My question is has anyone heard of this brand,if so = you ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BF6CDC.6995E7A0-- from jbperez@mi.madritel.es Tue Feb 1 18:46:17 2000 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA4879 +0100 Subject: bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF6D1F.29D1EAE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF6D1F.29D1EAE0 Thanks toall those people that you are helping me in, neither it =consults about thebamboo.I am sure it will be very useful,at the moment I am novice in the "art =of fishing rods",but I have carried out test with bamboo of low =quality, that I have boughtin gardenig centers,to practice the assembly techniques and in principle =I don=B4t need big quantities of bamboo canes, until it manufactures two=or three canes in a correct way. Ian kearney,Tony Specio,Ray Gould,Jagusch Rainer and Dany twang. from today you have a friend in Spain.GOOD FISHING!!!!! To Dany:Please,send me the e-mail adress and web page of your =distribuitor in denmark,thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF6D1F.29D1EAE0 Thanks toall those people that you are helping me = it consults about thebamboo.I am sure it will be very useful,at the = in gardenig centers,to practice the assembly = principle I don=B4t need big quantities of bamboo canes, until it = or three canes in a correct way. Ian kearney,Tony Specio,Ray Gould,Jagusch Rainerand = twang. from today you have a friend in Spain.GOOD FISHING!!!!! To Dany:Please,send me the e-mail adress and web = distribuitor in denmark,thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF6D1F.29D1EAE0-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Feb 1 18:55:12 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Splicing Block Thanks to everyone that supplied information about splicing blocks. Thisisa great group.Ernie Harrison from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Feb 1 19:26:50 2000 Subject: snake guide size and placement Hi, how does one determine the number and size of guides on a rod? Paul from listreader@codemarine.com Tue Feb 1 19:31:12 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: snake guide size and placement I've wondered this as well. One of the books (Maurer) I have hasplacement/size charts placementalgorithmn, isn't there? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: snake guide size and placement Hi, how does one determine the number and size of guides on a rod? Paul from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Feb 1 20:08:42 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: snake guide size and placement Steve, I use one more guide then the length of the rod, plus the stripper. I start from 4-4.5inches from the tip and place the stripper from 28-32 inches from the end.I then playwith the guides in betweento get a natural progression. Deleting a guide if I find it fits the rodbetter. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've wondered this as well. One of the books (Maurer) I have hasplacement/size charts placementalgorithmn, isn't there? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: snake guide size and placement Hi, how does one determine the number and size of guides on a rod? Paul from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Feb 1 20:12:39 2000 Subject: file for planing form I happened upon a Stanley Short Cut saw sharpening kit (Part # 22-434) atmy local salvage center that seems like would make a great tool fortuningup planing forms. It is about 8" long and about 3/8" on a side with twosides with teeth. It has no taper and about half of it is coated withplastic to make a "handle". It seems like it could be easily attached to ablock. Any thoughts.... David from twinpinesrods@mindspring.com Tue Feb 1 21:01:29 2000 Subject: Hello again Just a quick note to say hello. I've been off the list for a while but I'm still alive and kicking. Jobconstraints have slowed my rod building but I still manage to generate agood pile of shavings now and then. The good news (for me) is that I haverecently moved to Colorado. I feel fortunate to have lived in the warmwater fishing paradise that Florida is and now to be in Colorado 10minutes from the cold water streams that I enjoy so much. Life is good. I lookforward to being part of the list again and hope that I can contribute fromtime to time. from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 1 21:06:53 2000 WAA00914 Subject: Re: snake guide size and placement Disregard my last post, this is how my bamboo rods are!. Thanks Dave Price Steve Trauthwein wrote: Steve, I use one more guide then the length of the rod, plus the stripper. I start from 4-4.5inches from the tip and place the stripper from 28-32 inches from the end.I then playwith the guides in betweento get a natural progression. Deleting a guide if I find it fits the rodbetter. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've wondered this as well. One of the books (Maurer) I have hasplacement/sizecharts for various rods, but it's not comprehensive. Clearly there is somesort ofplacement algorithmn, isn't there? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu GoodwinSent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: snake guide size and placement Hi, how does one determine the number and size of guides on a rod? Paul from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 1 21:47:16 2000 Subject: Re: snake guide size and placement Steve,Wayne Cattanach's book includes a computer disk which contains aprogram for givingyou an even guide spacing. You index all the guides off of the one nearesttheferrule(s). I'm not sure you canstill download the newer versions of that program off of Wayne's site,but you could atone time. At any rate, the 2nd edition of his book should be out before toolong, andI'm sure it will have thatsame program. Harry Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've wondered this as well. One of the books (Maurer) I have hasplacement/sizecharts for various rods, but it's not comprehensive. Clearly there is somesort ofplacement algorithmn, isn't there? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu GoodwinSent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: snake guide size and placement Hi, how does one determine the number and size of guides on a rod? Paul --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 1 21:51:54 2000 Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:51:38 -0800 Subject: Re: file for planing form What do the "teeth" look like? That makes a lot of difference in howaggressively the file cuts. Harry Boyd "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott" wrote: I happened upon a Stanley Short Cut saw sharpening kit (Part # 22-434)atmy local salvage center that seems like would make a great tool fortuningup planing forms. It is about 8" long and about 3/8" on a side with twosides with teeth. It has no taper and about half of it is coated withplastic to make a "handle". It seems like it could be easily attached to ablock. Any thoughts.... David --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Feb 2 03:56:28 2000 Wed, 2 Feb 2000 05:55:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Snake Brand guides I've heard so many good things about Snake brand that I want to give thematry, however most tapers I am building recommend down to a 3/0 andsometimes4/0 guide. The smallest that Snake brand comes in is 2/0. What do youguysdo, just substitute another brand for the small ones or replace them with2/0's? Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Thought I would echo what Wayne Cattanach said a few weeks ago.I just received a very large ($3000+) order of guides from Mike McCoy atSnake Brand guides. I've never seen guides this nice. Nice to knowI'll never have to grind guide feet again!!I have no financial connection to Mike. I'm just a verysatisfied customer. When you need some guides, you will want to givethese serious consideration. Look for his website atwww.snakebrand.com Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed Feb 2 04:16:06 2000 (HELO localhost) Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:14:45 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:15:26 +0100 Subject: Re: bamboo A9FA34C6219EDEB3FA79B1EB" --------------A9FA34C6219EDEB3FA79B1EB HOLA PEREZ There is no distributor in Denmark.It was my mentor, helping me out with a couple of culms when I firststarted building.He also came over 50 culms that we split between us. As i wrote, I don'tthink there is morebamboo to find here up north..... regardsdanny Juan B. Perez wrote: Thanks toall those people that you are helping me in, neither itconsults about thebamboo. To Dany:Please,send me the e-mail adress andweb page of your distribuitor in denmark,thanks. --------------A9FA34C6219EDEB3FA79B1EB HOLA PEREZ There is no distributor in Denmark.It was my mentor, helping me out with a couple of culms when I firststarted building.He also came over 50 culms that we split between us. As i wrote, Idon't think there is morebamboo to find here up north..... regardsdanny Juan B. Perez wrote: Thanks toallthose people that you are helping me in, neither it consults about Dany:Please,send me the e-mail adress and web page of your distribuitorin denmark,thanks. --------------A9FA34C6219EDEB3FA79B1EB-- from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Feb 2 05:38:01 2000 Subject: Re: snake guide size and placement All, Interesting article in RodMaker (not BRMM) magazine on guide placement - basically, one takes an 8' x 4' piece of peg board; clamps the rod to theupper part (long side); bend the rod where the tip is about 90 deg. from thebutt; and hold in place. Number of guides starts with 1 each per foot ofrod, but can change if needed. Divide the total rod length by the guides tocome up with an equidistant measurement. Lay this out on the side of theboard (short side) using the 1" hole spacing and carry over to the rod. Dueto the bend in the rod, the spacing becomes graduated. Haven't tried it yet, so don't kill the messenger. Looks good to me though. TaJim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: snake guide size and placement Steve, I use one more guide then the length of the rod, plus the stripper. Istart from 4-4.5 inches from the tip and place the stripper from 28-32inches from the end. I then play with the guides in betweento get a natural progression. Deleting a guide if I find it fits the rodbetter. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've wondered this as well. One of the books (Maurer) I have hasplacement/size charts for various rods, but it's not comprehensive.Clearlythere is some sort of placement algorithmn, isn't there? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu GoodwinSent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: snake guide size and placement Hi, how does one determine the number and size of guides on a rod? Paul from stuart.tod@virgin.net Wed Feb 2 06:02:14 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:02:08 +0000 Subject: Re: bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF6D76.761F6240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF6D76.761F6240 All, if you're looking for Tonkin in europe, try Mr. LK Moss of: The Centre Cane CompanyUnit 16Shakletons Rectory EstateOngarEssexCM5 9ATUK Tel 01277 363285 fax 01277 364985 I bought my last bundle of culms from him, =A388.30 plus VAT, free =delivery (in UK)10 x 12' culms per bundle, 2"-2.5" diameter, absolutely no complaints!! =There are price reductions for buying more than one bale..... No interest, etc, just very good cane. Stuart Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:23 AMSubject: Re: bamboo It was my mentor, helping me out with a couple of culms when I first = He also came over 50 culms that we split between us. As i wrote, I = Thanks toall those people that you are helping me in, neither it =consults about thebamboo. To Dany:Please,send me the e-mail adress and =web page of your distribuitor in denmark,thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF6D76.761F6240 All, if you're looking for Tonkin in europe,= Moss of: The Centre CaneCompanyUnit 16Shakletons RectoryEstateOngarEssexCM5 9ATUK Tel 01277 363285 fax 01277 =364985 I bought my last bundle of culms from= plus VAT, free delivery (in UK)10 x 12' culms per bundle, 2"-2.5" = absolutely no complaints!! There are price reductions for buying more = bale..... No interest, etc, just very good =cane. Stuart ----- Original Message ----- Danny Twang Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, February 02, = AMSubject: Re: bamboo There is no distributor in Denmark. It was my mentor, helping = with a couple of culms when I first started building. He also came = culms that we split between us. As i wrote, I don't think there is = Thanks toall those people that you are helping me = ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF6D76.761F6240-- from harry37@epix.net Wed Feb 2 07:32:10 2000 IAA19958; Subject: Re: snake guide size and placement Look in the archives--Fri March 13, 1998-Art Port posted the formula for guide spacing determination. Had todust off the brain to remember the algebra, but it works. Greg Steve Zimmerman wrote: I've wondered this as well. One of the books (Maurer) I have hasplacement/size charts placementalgorithmn, isn't there? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: snake guide size and placement Hi, how does one determine the number and size of guides on a rod? Paul from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Feb 2 07:33:48 2000 Wed, 2 Feb 2000 05:33:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Snake Brand guides Shawn,In my opinion, today's plastic fly lines won't work with guides smallerthan2/0. They simply won't go through the opening. Unless you're buildingrods forsilk lines only, you need larger guides. What I do when a pattern calls forsay, 4/0 - 1/0, is move up two sizes to 2/0 - 2.Hope this helps,Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: I've heard so many good things about Snake brand that I want to givethem atry, however most tapers I am building recommend down to a 3/0 andsometimes4/0 guide. The smallest that Snake brand comes in is 2/0. What do youguysdo, just substitute another brand for the small ones or replace themwith2/0's? Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Thought I would echo what Wayne Cattanach said a few weeks ago.I just received a very large ($3000+) order of guides from Mike McCoyatSnake Brand guides. I've never seen guides this nice. Nice to knowI'll never have to grind guide feet again!!I have no financial connection to Mike. I'm just a verysatisfied customer. When you need some guides, you will want to givethese serious consideration. Look for his website atwww.snakebrand.com Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 2 08:17:56 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:18:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Snake Brand guides I agree. These newer lines are so slick, they need larger guides to alloweasier movement. Small guides really cut down on the shoot. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snake Brand guides Shawn,In my opinion, today's plastic fly lines won't work with guidessmaller than2/0. They simply won't go through the opening. Unless you're buildingrods forsilk lines only, you need larger guides. What I do when a pattern callsforsay, 4/0 - 1/0, is move up two sizes to 2/0 - 2.Hope this helps,Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: I've heard so many good things about Snake brand that I want to givethem atry, however most tapers I am building recommend down to a 3/0 andsometimes4/0 guide. The smallest that Snake brand comes in is 2/0. What do youguysdo, just substitute another brand for the small ones or replace themwith2/0's? Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Thought I would echo what Wayne Cattanach said a few weeksago.I just received a very large ($3000+) order of guides from Mike McCoyatSnake Brand guides. I've never seen guides this nice. Nice to knowI'll never have to grind guide feet again!!I have no financial connection to Mike. I'm just a verysatisfied customer. When you need some guides, you will want togivethese serious consideration. Look for his website atwww.snakebrand.com Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Feb 2 09:24:10 2000 Subject: Technical question- practically speaking boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF6D67.5907B680" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF6D67.5907B680 Guys,While measuring some of my strips the other night, I started to wonder =about the technical aspects of the tapers vs. the practical aspects.In the experience of whomever wants to comment, just how far 'off' of =the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the rod feel and fish the =same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted in theory there =would be a difference with any deviation from the stated taper =dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or what =has been your actual experience? I realize this is just some more of my weird questions, but it helps to =fill in gaps in the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF6D67.5907B680 Guys,While measuring some of my strips the= I started to wonder about the technical aspects of the tapers vs. the = aspects.In the experience of whomever wantsto = just how far 'off' of the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the = feel and fish the same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted = there would be a difference with any deviation from the stated taper = but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or what has been your = experience? I realize this is just some more of my= questions, but it helps to fill in gaps in the knowledge =bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF6D67.5907B680-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 2 10:20:04 2000 Subject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking In a message dated 2/2/0 3:30:22 PM, mschaffer@mindspring.com writes: Mike - There is a lot that could be said on this one. I am not qualified to get into mathematical specifics, but my understanding of the general situation is that the force that is exerted by a spring is related to the square of it's thickness. In other words the effect of thickness variations is exponential, and that is why we obsess over the things. I feel strongly that tolerances should be thought of in terms of percentage of thickness, rather than in thousandths of an inch. Lets say you have a .005 error. It will probably be noticeable at the tip end, and if consistent might throwyou off a line weight, near the butt the same error will hardly be noticeable.To try to answer your question, I suspect an error in the 1-2% range willnot make much difference, 4-5% would make a noticeable difference. I can'tprove any of this, and a lot would depend on where the error is and how long the out of tolerance section is. A bump or dip at a node, for example, may notbe a display of great craftsmanship, but won't have much effect on the way arod casts. from lars32@gateway.net Wed Feb 2 11:45:37 2000 Subject: Sandpaper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0099_01BF6D73.9551DCE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01BF6D73.9551DCE0 A sourse for cheap sandpaper 35 cents a sheet.No Interest etc.Abrasive Outlet1-800-814-7358abrasive@pro-ns.netDave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01BF6D73.9551DCE0 A sourse for cheap sheet.No Interest etc.Abrasive Outlet1-800-814-7358abrasive@pro- ns.netDaveN. ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01BF6D73.9551DCE0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Feb 2 11:51:06 2000 Subject: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Will attempt to do some toning this weekend usingsodium carbonate. Would it be better to remove theenamel before treating or just leave it on as Iwould normally when heat treating.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Feb 2 12:09:49 2000 0000 Subject: RE: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Tony,I think you mean "ammonium" carbonate, not sodium. My experience is thatyoucan leave the enamel on as you normally would.Tom -----Original Message----- Subject: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Will attempt to do some toning this weekend usingsodium carbonate. Would it be better to remove theenamel before treating or just leave it on as Iwould normally when heat treating.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Feb 2 12:38:45 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper - Correction Hi, Thanks to all for the enlightenment... I used my NEW dial caliper and yes,my measurements are off by AT LEAST .1"... please disregard the previousmeasurements. I will remeasure with the suggestions provided. Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper After MANY requests for this taper, I took the measurements. This is a 9' 3piece rod. Notes:The tip section was 1/2" short at the tip top. First measurement would beapproximately 2" below where the original length section would have beenor1.5" from the top of the current length of the rod today. measurement was 33"- .294" and 37" - .302". Or you can decide on yourownnumber. All measurements were a single measurement. This rod was completed January 30, 1941 and the first owner was S.S.Bauerswho bought it on May 20, 1941. This has a half Wells grip and is a 6 oz rodaccording to the original FE Thomas records. .178 2".197 7".219 etc. 5" inter- vals.240.263.272.283.298.312.340.365.370.380.390.395.404.415.435.458.555 Sorry, this is my first attempt at measuring a rod... I'm willing toremeasure if someone wants to give me some pointers... But it has to beASAPas this rod is sold and will be packaged and shipped in a couple of hours.If this is good, please let me know so I can go ahead and pack the rod. Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Feb 2 13:01:08 2000 Subject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF6D6C.C6131C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF6D6C.C6131C60 Hi Michael,This one is a subjective matter with some practical aspects of =manufacturing tied to it. My opinion is that if you're within 0.002" to =0.003" across the flats of the target number you're doing well. On a tip =section of 0.070" across the flats you'd be within 4% or so and at a =butt section of 0.350" you'd be less than 1% off.Ray Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Technical question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips the other night, I started to wonder =about the technical aspects of the tapers vs. the practical aspects.In the experience of whomever wants to comment, just how far 'off' of =the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the rod feel and fish the =same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted in theory there =would be a difference with any deviation from the stated taper =dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or what =has been your actual experience? I realize this is just some more of my weird questions, but it helps =to fill in gaps in the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF6D6C.C6131C60 Hi Michael,This one is a subjective matter with = aspects of manufacturing tied to it. My opinion is that if you're within = to 0.003" across the flats of the target number you're doing well. On a = section of 0.070" across the flats you'd be within 4% or so and at a = section of 0.350" you'd be less than 1% off.Ray ----- Original Message ----- michael = Sent: Wednesday, February 02, = AMSubject: Technical question- = speaking Guys,While measuring some of my stripsthe = night, I started to wonder about the technical aspects of the tapers = practical aspects.In the experience of whomever wants= just how far 'off' of the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have = feel and fish the same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted = theory there would be a difference with any deviation from the stated = dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or what = been your actual experience? I realize this is just some more of = questions, but it helps to fill in gaps in the knowledge =bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF6D6C.C6131C60-- from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Feb 2 13:05:27 2000 Subject: Re: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Hi Tony,My experience is in the use of ammonia carbonate and apply it with theenamel on and the strips not glued but bound with cotton string. Thesestrips have been roughed down close to final size at this point.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Will attempt to do some toning this weekend usingsodium carbonate. Would it be better to remove theenamel before treating or just leave it on as Iwould normally when heat treating.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from mark_lang@tnb.com Wed Feb 2 13:32:33 2000 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:33:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Ray, In general do you heat treat strips that are tapered (.020 - .030 over size)or justbeveled (no taper)? Mark "Ray Gould" 02/02/00 01:05PM >>>Hi Tony,My experience is in the use of ammonia carbonate and apply it with theenamel on and the strips not glued but bound with cotton string. Thesestrips have been roughed down close to final size at this point.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Will attempt to do some toning this weekend usingsodium carbonate. Would it be better to remove theenamel before treating or just leave it on as Iwould normally when heat treating.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Feb 2 15:19:09 2000 13:31:58 PST Subject: Dave LeClair's e-mail Does anyone have Dave LeClair's e-mail address? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Feb 2 16:04:50 2000 Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:04:38 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Dave LeClair's e-mail The address is LECLAIR123@aol.com regardsdanny ----------From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: Dave LeClair's e-mailDate: ons 2. feb 2000 22:31 Does anyone have Dave LeClair's e-mail address? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Feb 2 16:52:49 2000 Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:52:43 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Sodium Carbonate Toning. You are right,I don't know where my head was.!!!!!!! Don't tell me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tom Whittle wrote: Tony,I think you mean "ammonium" carbonate, not sodium. My experience isthat youcan leave the enamel on as you normally would.Tom -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 12:47 PM Subject: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Will attempt to do some toning this weekend usingsodium carbonate. Would it be better to remove theenamel before treating or just leave it on as Iwould normally when heat treating.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Feb 2 16:56:36 2000 Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:56:27 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Thanks Ray,I thought that is the way it was done. I guess you know I did not meanSodium.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi Tony,My experience is in the use of ammonia carbonate and apply it with theenamel on and the strips not glued but bound with cotton string. Thesestrips have been roughed down close to final size at this point.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Tony Spezio Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 9:46 AMSubject: Sodium Carbonate Toning. Will attempt to do some toning this weekend usingsodium carbonate. Would it be better to remove theenamel before treating or just leave it on as Iwould normally when heat treating.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Feb 2 19:58:37 2000 Subject: Thomas and Thomas tapers Does anyone out there have tapers for a Thomas and Thomas rod? I amparticularly interested in their 5wt and under rods. Any otherinfo/opinions on their rods are welcome. Thanks,Shawn from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Feb 3 04:00:13 2000 (HELO localhost) Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:59:06 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:59:48 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: T&T Hello Shawn Its Your lucky day, this afternoon I'm going to pick up T&T Caenis 7`6"#3 and Orvis Battenkill 7/4 7`#4. If any other than Shawn wants thistapers, I will post them to the list.................... BTW What are You European builders use as adhesive for the splits? Havenot had any luck , finding what You americans use.................... regardsdanny from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Feb 3 04:23:50 2000 (HELO localhost) Thu, 03 Feb 2000 11:22:48 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Thu, 03 Feb 2000 11:23:34 +0100 Subject: Rules All I came to think of this issue..... -is there a unwritten rules about sharing tapers of currently producedrods from the big manufactures ............since I never see this tapers? regardsdanny from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Feb 3 05:26:36 2000 Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:25:31 +0800 Subject: Re: T&T "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Danny,please post to the list. Tony At 11:07 AM 2/3/00 +0100, Danny Twang wrote:Hello Shawn Its Your lucky day, this afternoon I'm going to pick up T&T Caenis 7`6"#3 and Orvis Battenkill 7/4 7`#4. If any other than Shawn wants thistapers, I will post them to the list.................... BTW What are You European builders use as adhesive for the splits? Havenot had any luck , finding what You americans use.................... regardsdanny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Feb 3 05:27:46 2000 Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:27:21 +0800 Subject: Re: Rules Can't see there can be a problem with sharing what can be measured, itcomes down to what people will do with it. I for one plan on keeping it forprosperity ;-) Tony At 11:31 AM 2/3/00 +0100, Danny Twang wrote:All I came to think of this issue..... -is there a unwritten rules about sharing tapers of currently producedrods from the big manufactures ............since I never see this tapers? regardsdanny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Feb 3 08:33:31 2000 ,Shawn Pineo, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: T&T I'm definitely interested. And speaking of such things....I've often heard how sweet Winston's bamboorods are but have not seen tapers. Does anyone have any to share? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: T&T Hello Shawn Its Your lucky day, this afternoon I'm going to pick up T&T Caenis 7`6"#3 and Orvis Battenkill 7/4 7`#4. If any other than Shawn wants thistapers, I will post them to the list.................... BTW What are You European builders use as adhesive for the splits? Havenot had any luck , finding what You americans use.................... regardsdanny from dati@selway.umt.edu Thu Feb 3 08:36:21 2000 07:36:16 -0700 Subject: final dimension I carefully planed the first butt strip of my first rod down to finaldimension and you know what? I was off by 0.010" at the butt end. Thiserror reduced as I moved up the strip to the tip end. I am not sure why Iwas off by so much at the butt end and off only between 0.001 and0.005" at the tip end. My wife told me last night that it was all right because if I wereperfect at planing then it wouldn't be fun anymore. Anyway, I have a lot of room to improve. Thanks to all on this list forthe helpful advice. I look forward to finishing the rod and fishing it. Darin Law from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Feb 3 08:40:39 2000 (HELO localhost) Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:39:19 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:40:07 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: T&T Kling, Barry W. wrote: I'm definitely interested. And speaking of such things....I've often heard how sweet Winston'sbamboorods are but have not seen tapers. Does anyone have any to share? Barry Hi there I have borrowed T&T Caenis, Orvis 7/4, Ritz Fario Club 8`5" #5, and HardyPalakona 8`6" #7-if there is any interesting in this tapers, I will post them to the list. regardsdanny from FlyfishT@aol.com Thu Feb 3 10:44:15 2000 Subject: T&T,winston I also am interested in T&T and Winston tapers. Thanks,Tom from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 3 12:27:08 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: FW: FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper This is the powerhouse rod that Marty Keane speaks so fondly about in hisbook that he devotes about 1 1/2 pages to this rod. I re-took the measurements. This is a 9' 3 piece rod. Notes:The tip section was 1/2" short at the tip top. First measurement starts atthe butt end because of the short tip. Average varnish thickness. All measurements were averaging three measurements, flat to flat unlesstwoflats measurements were the same, then that diameter was used. Rod is a swelled butt, blond cane rod. This rod was completed January 30, 1941 and the first owner was S.S.Bauerswho bought it on May 20, 1941. This has a half Wells grip and is a 6 oz rodaccording to the original FE Thomas records. Wood spacer reel seat, 7-8wtrod. Butt11.5" .46815" .38220" .34025 .32530 .31035 at ferrule estimate .30540 .30045 .28550 .27555 .25560 .23465 .21870 .20575 .18680 .17585 .16890 .14995 .128100 .098105 .082107" .080tip top Jan Nystrom has one of these also and was planning to measure his for agiggle, will be interested in the comparison. Sorry about the wacky first measurement... new dial caliper and used thewrong scale... still faster than using a micrometer. If anyone builds this rod, I'd like to hear their results. Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from JaguschR@aol.com Thu Feb 3 12:36:50 2000 Subject: Re: T&T (Glue) Hello Danny I in Germany have bought a cann of glue from one off our professional rodmakers.It works very well and has cost me around 50.- German Marks (~25). Ithink i will glue up to 80 - 100 rods with this amount. The glue looks a bit like Ponal witch is a glue for wood but it is much thinner.If it is interresting for you i can give you the Adress. CURainereat..sleep..go fishing!! from ernie2@pacbell.net Thu Feb 3 13:08:32 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Easier way to make splices. Hans Kohl's e-mail in the archives seems like the best way to taperbamboosections for splicing. He suggests using a sanding disc instead of asplicing block. Any of you nodeless rod makers using this? If so how doyou like it?Ernie from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Feb 3 13:42:06 2000 Subject: Info on Wheeler pleas boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6E7F.0026ADA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6E7F.0026ADA0 Can some of you clever lot give me some information on a Rodmaker by the=name of Wheeler? All I know is that he was/is American.ThanksTim ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6E7F.0026ADA0 Can some of you clever lot give mesome = = American.ThanksTim ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6E7F.0026ADA0-- from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Feb 3 13:48:26 2000 Subject: Nickel Silver Spec. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF6E7F.E2E629E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF6E7F.E2E629E0 Please can someone let me know what specification/composition Nickel =Silver is being used for fittings etc?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF6E7F.E2E629E0 Please can someone let me know etc?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF6E7F.E2E629E0-- from rp43640@online-club.de Thu Feb 3 14:51:36 2000 Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:51:15 +0100 (MET) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: T&T Danny,read your mail about your danish mentor, was this Preben DorphJårgensen?I use epoxy for gluing rods. There are different brands which you can use.There are UHU 300, Araldit and also some epoxies from 3M. Christian Danny Twang schrieb: Hello Shawn Its Your lucky day, this afternoon I'm going to pick up T&T Caenis 7`6"#3 and Orvis Battenkill 7/4 7`#4. If any other than Shawn wants thistapers, I will post them to the list.................... BTW What are You European builders use as adhesive for the splits? Havenot had any luck , finding what You americans use.................... regardsdanny from rp43640@online-club.de Thu Feb 3 15:00:46 2000 Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:00:37 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Spec. Tim, CuNi18Zn20CuNi12Zn24in Germany it is nearly impossible to buy CuNi18Zn20 unless you arewilling to order a ton of it.So most ferrules here are made of CuNi12Zn24. Christian Watson's schrieb: Please can someone let me know what specification/composition NickelSilver is being used for fittings etc?ThanksTim. from rp43640@online-club.de Thu Feb 3 15:06:58 2000 Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:06:52 +0100 (MET) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: T&T Danny, please send tusind tak Christian Danny Twang schrieb: Hello Shawn Its Your lucky day, this afternoon I'm going to pick up T&T Caenis 7`6"#3 and Orvis Battenkill 7/4 7`#4. If any other than Shawn wants thistapers, I will post them to the list.................... BTW What are You European builders use as adhesive for the splits? Havenot had any luck , finding what You americans use.................... regardsdanny from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Feb 3 16:15:10 2000 (MET) Subject: T&T and Orvis boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3032550858_87891_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3032550858_87891_MIME_Part To Tony, Shawn, Christian and all............ Here You have the tapers on T&T Caenis 7'6" 3 and Orvis Battenkill 7/4 #33piece. The measurement is the average between the three flats. I believe You, Tony, will like the Caenis. It has an action very much likemy Perfectionist, maybe a little softer......That is based on my wee-wing the stick in the living room:-))) I am not impressed of the workmanship, the Orvis have an uneven uglylookingglue line, but very little diff. from flats to flat.Looks like they use some kind of epoxy, the glueline is filled withtranslucent glue.T&T have a finish I only could dream for, on my rods at my stage, but thereadings differ between the flats by more, mentioned on the list the otherday................ Anyway here it is, with section length and guidespacing: Orvis Battenkill 7/4 # 3 piece, tip is 28 11/16", mid and butt 28 7/16"Guidespacing from tip: 4 3/4, 10 6/16, 16 10/16, 23 1/2, 30 2/4, 377/16, 442/4, 51 and 59 6/16 1 1/2 - ,062 30 - ,143 56 3/4- ,2195 1/2 - ,076 35 - ,160 60- ,2229 3/4 - ,089 40 - ,168 65- ,22815 - ,111 45 2/16- ,176 70- ,24820 - ,124 50 - ,187 723/4 - ,26025 - ,135 54 2/4 - ,196 T&T Caenis 7'6" #3 2 piece (VARNISH NOT SUBTRACTED)Guidespacing from tip:5 1/4, 11 1/4, 17 3/4, 24 3/4, 32 3/4, 41 1/4, 511/4and 62 1/2 1 - .058 47 - ,1955 - ,070 50 - ,20010 - ,088 55 - ,21415 - ,108 60 - ,23020 - ,123 65 - ,23925 - ,141 70 - ,25430 - ,155 75 - ,26535 - ,171 79 1/2 - ,27940 - ,185 80 1/2 - ,360 swell cont. under windings44 - ,194 I just have to attach a picture on the swelled butt on the T&T, hope therenot is a rule I've overlooked...You need special equipment to manage this, its laying beside the butt Ihavemade (F.E. Thomas 7" #3) Hope You understand my english:-) regardsdanny --MS_Mac_OE_3032550858_87891_MIME_Part T&T and Orvis To Tony, Shawn, Christian and all............ Batt=enkill 7/4 #3 3 piece. The measurement is the average between the threeflat=s. I believe You, Tony, will like the Caenis. It has an action very much like =my Perfectionist, maybe a little softer......That is based on my wee-wing the stick in the living room:-))) I am not impressed of the workmanship, the Orvis have an uneven uglylookin=g glue line, but very little diff. from flats to flat.Looks like they use some kind of epoxy, the glueline is filled with translu=cent glue.T&T have a finish I only could dream for, on my rods at my stage, butt=he readings differ between the flats by more, mentioned on the list theothe=r day................ Anyway here it is, with section length and guidespacing: Orvis Battenkill 7/4 # 3 piece, tip is 28 11/16", mid and butt 287/16="Guidespacing from tip: 4 3/4, 10 6/16, 16 10/16, 23 1/2, 30 2/4, 377/16, 4=4 2/4, 51 and 59 6/16 48 bsp;,187 T&T Caenis 7'6" #3 2 piece (VARNISH NOT S=UBTRACTED)Guidespacing from tip:5 1/4, 11 1/4, 17 3/4, 24 3/4, 32 3/4, 41 1/4, 511/4=and 62 1/2 I just have to attach a picture on the swelled butt on the T&T, hopeth=ere not is a rule I've overlooked...You need special equipment to manage this, its laying beside the butt Ihav=e made (F.E. Thomas 7" #3) Hope You understand my english:-) regardsdanny --MS_Mac_OE_3032550858_87891_MIME_Part-- from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 3 16:20:10 2000 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Spec. boundary="------------D84FAC87BF75CC39B1EF23FD" --------------D84FAC87BF75CC39B1EF23FD It is alloy 752.John Z Watson's wrote: Please can someone let me know what specification/composition NickelSilver is being used for fittings etc?ThanksTim. --------------D84FAC87BF75CC39B1EF23FD It is alloy 752.John ZWatson's wrote: Pleasecan someone let me know what specification/composition Nickel Silver isbeing used for fittings etc?ThanksTim. --------------D84FAC87BF75CC39B1EF23FD-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 3 16:38:08 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:38:43 -0600 Subject: Lost name boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF6E65.3D507AE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF6E65.3D507AE0 Last Sept. during discussions here, about the Rodmakers group meeting in=Ark., there was a retired military man, living in Corpus Christi, Texas, =that I had contact with. I'm planning to make the March meeting, and =wondering if this gentleman would like to attend too ? Please make contact, if you are still on our list. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF6E65.3D507AE0 = in Ark., there was a retired military man, living in Corpus Christi, = I had contact with. I'm planning to make the March meeting, and = this gentleman would like to attend too ? Please make contact, if you are still on our list. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF6E65.3D507AE0-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Feb 3 17:23:03 2000 Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:22:55 +0100 (MET) Subject: boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3032554936_333188_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3032554936_333188_MIME_Part To Harry, and all. Thank You Harry, now I don't have to worry about writhing to the list:-) There was no trouble, I enjoyed it, and taking this as a part of myrodmaking education.Beside most of You have done the same, just look at all the tapersavailableon the Rodmakers. BTW, have any of You heard about a reel called "Mitre-Hardy 3 1/4, Jewel"Ibought it with aHGH silkline in mint condition. Costed me ca $35,- regardsdanny--MS_Mac_OE_3032554936_333188_MIME_Part To Harry, and all. Thank You Harry, now I don't have to worry about writhing to the list:-) There was no trouble, I enjoyed it, and taking this as a part of myrodmaking education.Beside most of You have done the same, just look at all the tapersavailabl=eon the Rodmakers. BTW, have any of You heard about a reel called "Mitre-Hardy 3 1/4,Jew=el" Ibought it with aHGH silkline in mint condition. Costed me ca $35,- regardsdanny --MS_Mac_OE_3032554936_333188_MIME_Part-- from jkcerise@rof.net Thu Feb 3 17:39:16 2000 Subject: Bamboo Spinner Anyone out there able to tell me anything about an old Bamboo a friend ofmine picked up? The thing is a spin-cast configuration with a flatteneddiamond logo having UTK stamped into it. It had a reel seat that has ahook don't know enough to tell him much about it. It has been rewound if onecould stretch his imagination that far!!! Looks like a real junker but he'scurious about it, so I'm askin'?? Any help out there in this vast store of bamboo knowledge??? TIA, John Cerise from lars32@gateway.net Thu Feb 3 17:43:26 2000 Subject: Bluing N.S. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6E6E.B99A0540" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6E6E.B99A0540 I fought with Birchwood Casey's brass black for 10 rods or so. Results =were fair. I could never tell how it would come out. Sometimes a whole =section would peel right off and I would have to start over. I got a =bottle of Dave LeClair's blue and tried it today on two ferrule sets. It =is superb! No Comm. Int. etc. Why did I wait so long?Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6E6E.B99A0540 I fought with Birchwood Casey's = 10 rods or so. Results were fair. I could never tell how it would come = Sometimes a whole section would peel right off and I would have to start= got a bottle of Dave LeClair's blue and tried it today on two ferrule = is superb! No Comm. Int. etc. Why did I wait so long?DaveN. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6E6E.B99A0540-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Feb 3 17:44:27 2000 15:57:46 PST Subject: re: Bamboo Spinner It sounds sort of Horrock-Ibbotsenish. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- Anyone out there able to tell me anything about an old Bamboo a friend ofmine picked up? The thing is a spin-cast configuration with a flatteneddiamond logo having UTK stamped into it. It had a reel seat that has ahook don't know enough to tell him much about it. It has been rewound if onecould stretch his imagination that far!!! Looks like a real junker but he'scurious about it, so I'm askin'?? Any help out there in this vast store of bamboo knowledge??? TIA, John Cerise from lblove@cableone.net Thu Feb 3 17:46:12 2000 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:45:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Spec. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6E6E.3A7A1340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6E6E.3A7A1340 hey guys,CA792 or CA752?? I have been told earlier(offlist) that it was CA792.since we are talking material spec. anyone know what type of bronze is =used for plane bodies or real seats??CA544(phosphor bronze),CA655(silicon bronze), or CA954(aluminum =bronze). I am pretty sure that it is not CA932(sae 660) bushing bronze.TIABrad Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 3:33 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Spec. Please can someone let me know what specification/composition Nickel=Silver is being used for fittings etc?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6E6E.3A7A1340 hey guys, that it was CA792. know = of bronze is used for plane bodies or real seats??CA544(phosphor bronze), CA655(silicon bronze), CA954(aluminum bronze). I am pretty sure that it is not CA932(sae 660) = bronze.TIABrad ----- Original Message ----- J. C. =Zimny Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, February 03, = PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver =Spec. Please can someone let me know= etc?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF6E6E.3A7A1340-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 3 18:00:25 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:50:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Spinner The diamond decal sounds like H-I, but the UTK sounds more Japanese. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Spinner Anyone out there able to tell me anything about an old Bamboo a friend ofmine picked up? The thing is a spin-cast configuration with a flatteneddiamond logo having UTK stamped into it. It had a reel seat that has ahook Idon't know enough to tell him much about it. It has been rewound if onecould stretch his imagination that far!!! Looks like a real junker buthe'scurious about it, so I'm askin'?? Any help out there in this vast store of bamboo knowledge??? TIA, John Cerise from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 3 18:08:09 2000 with ESMTP id ;Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:07:33 +0000 Subject: Re: T&T and Orvis Danny, Your English is fine. Thank you for publishing the tapers. Dennis Hope You understand my english:-) regardsdanny from channer1@rmi.net Thu Feb 3 18:08:55 2000 Subject: Re: final dimension At 07:36 AM 02/03/2000 -0700, Darin J Law wrote: I carefully planed the first butt strip of my first rod down to finaldimension and you know what? I was off by 0.010" at the butt end. Thiserror reduced as I moved up the strip to the tip end. I am not sure why Iwas off by so much at the butt end and off only between 0.001 and0.005" at the tip end. My wife told me last night that it was all right because if I wereperfect at planing then it wouldn't be fun anymore. Anyway, I have a lot of room to improve. Thanks to all on this list forthe helpful advice. I look forward to finishing the rod and fishing it. Darin Law Darin;Sounds to me like you have a bad tip on your dial indicator, from yourmeasurement errors i think it is more than 60d, so the deeper thewsetting,the greater the error. If you have bought a cheap one somewhere, replace itwith a Starrett pointthey can be counted on to be a true 60d.John from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 3 18:09:41 2000 with ESMTP id ;Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:09:08 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: T&T Danny,I woould like to see the Fario Club taper to compare to the one onRodmakerswhich came from a rod I have..... Danny Twang wrote: Kling, Barry W. wrote: I'm definitely interested. And speaking of such things....I've often heard how sweet Winston'sbamboorods are but have not seen tapers. Does anyone have any to share? Barry Hi there I have borrowed T&T Caenis, Orvis 7/4, Ritz Fario Club 8`5" #5, andHardyPalakona 8`6" #7-if there is any interesting in this tapers, I will post them to the list. regardsdanny --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 3 18:50:56 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Bamboo Spinner UTK was also a trademark used by H-I. Can't tell what model with rod asdescribed. You can try posting it on the "Name That Rod Forum" here's the link... www.bamboorods.homepage.com/namethatrod.htm Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Spinner The diamond decal sounds like H-I, but the UTK sounds more Japanese. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Spinner Anyone out there able to tell me anything about an old Bamboo a friend ofmine picked up? The thing is a spin-cast configuration with a flatteneddiamond logo having UTK stamped into it. It had a reel seat that has ahook Idon't know enough to tell him much about it. It has been rewound if onecould stretch his imagination that far!!! Looks like a real junker buthe'scurious about it, so I'm askin'?? Any help out there in this vast store of bamboo knowledge??? TIA, John Cerise from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Thu Feb 3 20:03:49 2000 Subject: Re: Info on Wheeler pleas Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:57:34 -0400 From:dpvbkjs@somtel.com (D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott)Subject:Re: Info on Wheeler pleas Can some of you clever lot give me some information on a Rodmaker bythename of Wheeler? All I know is that he was/is American.ThanksTim Hi Tim, Charles Wheeler was the son of a gunsmith (A. G.) in Farminton, Maine, 20miles from our home. According to A. J. Campbell's Classic and AntiqueFly-fishing Tackle, a New Yorker named George Shepard Page used aMurphysix-stripped fly rod north of here on the famous Rangely Lakes, and a NewEngland businessman named Isaac Cutler was impressed with the rod. Somuchso, that he approached the Wheelers about making them. Charles was intoangling, and made an impressive rod that pleased Cutler so much that heencouraged him to make more on speculation, according to the book. Thatwas in 1868, and by 1876, Wheeler's rods won him a medal and diploma ofexcellence at the International Exposition in Philadelphia. There was also a minor Conneticut maker, Campbell says, W. R. Wheeler. Maybe others on the list have told you more, and we could give you moreinformation from the book, if you'd like. If Charles is your guy, and you'd like, we could scan in a pic of hiswooden shop in Farminton (we just took one last week) and e-mail it as anattachment. The music hall where he was a bandleader still stands nextdoor. Hope this helps, Kat and David from martinjensen@home.com Thu Feb 3 20:54:54 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:54:50 -0800 Subject: RE: final dimension This is the first strip you have planed? If you are off by .010 you couldhave set the form wrong but this also might just be due to lack ofexperience. My first spline, I was off by at least .010. I started to getworried and look all over the place but then I realized (or thought) thatprecision will take care of it's self as you become more experienced. Idecided that it was more important for me to get a completed rod undermybelt then get a perfect rod. That would come with time ( I'm still workingon it). I mean check your form, set it and plane a test section, but reallythe more rods you do the better the tolerances will get without eventhinking about it.Another thing is that if you are using a dial indicator with a 60 degreepoint the tip might be crushed. Since you are probably using the tip to zeroout your indicator this would give you a false reading. you need to take youform and determine the depth of a spot with a drill rod and some mathcalculations. I have used the instructions on how to accurately determinethe depth of a vee by using a known diameter of round stock. Drill bitsworkfine. Once you know how deep a spot is, you set your indicator over thislocation and set it for the depth. Now when you set the indicator back on aflat surface to "zero" it out you can see how much of the tip is reallygone. I "zero" my indicator to (I think it is +.003) to make up for theflattened tip. Once you have done this, it really doesn't matter if the tipis crushed ( in fact I bet all brands are to some extent) because you neverindex off the tip anyway. As long as you know what to set it for is all thatis important. As far as the math to figure this out, someone here mustremember it I don't have it handy anymore. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: final dimension I carefully planed the first butt strip of my first rod down to finaldimension and you know what? I was off by 0.010" at the butt end. Thiserror reduced as I moved up the strip to the tip end. I am not sure why Iwas off by so much at the butt end and off only between 0.001 and0.005" at the tip end. My wife told me last night that it was all right because if I wereperfect at planing then it wouldn't be fun anymore. Anyway, I have a lot of room to improve. Thanks to all on this list forthe helpful advice. I look forward to finishing the rod and fishing it. Darin Law from stpete@netten.net Thu Feb 3 21:09:59 2000 Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:12:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Spec. John or anyone else with experience, Can you tell a novice whether it is best to ream or bore the insidesurfaces of the NS tube for ferrules? If reaming is the way to go, will I be able to make a 'D' style reamer from reamer/drill stock or would I be wasting my time? What minimumandmaximum should I plan on reaming/boring the NS tube? is .002 too little,or is .004 too much? Finally, what type of insert or tool should I use to cut and finish theNS tube. Positive rake? HSS or coated inserts? If you don't mind, Icould use the help. thanks, Rick C. J. C. Zimny wrote: It is alloy 752.John Z Watson's wrote: Please can someone let me know whatspecification/composition Nickel Silver is being used forfittings etc?ThanksTim. from martinjensen@home.com Thu Feb 3 22:55:30 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:55:17 -0800 Subject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF6E88.EB1FCA40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF6E88.EB1FCA40 I hope I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when you mention.00001tolerance. Or did you hic-up when you typed the zero's. Martin Jensen ----- Original Message -----From: michael Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Technical question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips the other night, I started to wonderabout the technical aspects of the tapers vs. the practical aspects.In the experience of whomever wants to comment, just how far 'off' ofthe dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the rod feel and fish thesame as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted in theory therewouldbe a difference with any deviation from the stated taper dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or what has been youractualexperience? I realize this is just some more of my weird questions, but it helps tofill in gaps in the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF6E88.EB1FCA40 I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when you mention .00001 = Or did you hic-up when you typed the zero's. Martin Jensen ----- Original Message ----- michael = Sent: Wednesday, February 02, = AMSubject: Technical question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips= night, I started to wonder about the technical aspects of the tapers = practical aspects.In the experience of whomeverwants = just how far 'off' of the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have = feel and fish the same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. = theory there would be a difference with any deviation from the = dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or = been your actual experience? I realize this is just some more of = questions, but it helps to fill in gaps in the knowledge =bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF6E88.EB1FCA40-- from saweiss@flash.net Thu Feb 3 23:39:49 2000 Subject: Re: T&T Danny,I'd like to also see the Fario Club.Thanks,Steve I have borrowed T&T Caenis, Orvis 7/4, Ritz Fario Club 8`5" #5, andHardyPalakona 8`6" #7-if there is any interesting in this tapers, I will post them to the list. regardsdanny from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 3 23:41:32 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Info on Wheeler pleas I'd enjoy a copy of the pic... Thanks for the extra info... I love stuff onthe old guys... Darrell-----Original Message----- K.J. Scott Subject: Re: Info on Wheeler pleas Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:57:34 -0400 From:dpvbkjs@somtel.com (D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott)Subject:Re: Info on Wheeler pleas Can some of you clever lot give me some information on a Rodmaker bythename of Wheeler? All I know is that he was/is American.ThanksTim Hi Tim, Charles Wheeler was the son of a gunsmith (A. G.) in Farminton, Maine, 20miles from our home. According to A. J. Campbell's Classic and AntiqueFly-fishing Tackle, a New Yorker named George Shepard Page used aMurphysix-stripped fly rod north of here on the famous Rangely Lakes, and a NewEngland businessman named Isaac Cutler was impressed with the rod. Somuchso, that he approached the Wheelers about making them. Charles was intoangling, and made an impressive rod that pleased Cutler so much that heencouraged him to make more on speculation, according to the book. Thatwas in 1868, and by 1876, Wheeler's rods won him a medal and diploma ofexcellence at the International Exposition in Philadelphia. There was also a minor Conneticut maker, Campbell says, W. R. Wheeler. Maybe others on the list have told you more, and we could give you moreinformation from the book, if you'd like. If Charles is your guy, and you'd like, we could scan in a pic of hiswooden shop in Farminton (we just took one last week) and e-mail it as anattachment. The music hall where he was a bandleader still stands nextdoor. Hope this helps, Kat and David from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri Feb 4 00:57:45 2000 (HELO localhost) Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:56:24 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:57:15 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: T&T Mike Leitheiser wrote: Danny,I woould like to see the Fario Club taper to compare to the one onRodmakerswhich came from a rod I have..... Hi Mike Will do tonight.The rod is not a Pezone et Michel , but made by Sharps of Aberdeen.Got the numbers wrong, the Fario is 8`6" and the Hardy 8`9", I'm not usedto theinch yet....to many numbers. Cant figure out all that dividing of the inch, 1/4, 1/16,1/64......... danny from mschaffer@mindspring.com Fri Feb 4 04:39:38 2000 Subject: Ron's mail Well, I've just tried for the 6th time to send an email to Ron Barch(rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us) and have been told service is unavailable.Can anyone help?Thanks, Mike from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Feb 4 07:21:35 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 4 Feb 2000 07:11:37 -0600 Subject: Re: T&T It's easier by far if you convert to decimals, i.e. 1/4" = .250", and 1mm =.03937" Radio Shack sells a neat calculator for under $15, that has allmetric conversions from inches, and visa versa. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: T&T Mike Leitheiser wrote: Danny,I woould like to see the Fario Club taper to compare to the one onRodmakerswhich came from a rod I have..... Hi Mike Will do tonight.The rod is not a Pezone et Michel , but made by Sharps of Aberdeen.Got the numbers wrong, the Fario is 8`6" and the Hardy 8`9", I'm not usedto theinch yet....to many numbers. Cant figure out all that dividing of the inch, 1/4, 1/16,1/64......... danny from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Feb 4 08:32:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:22:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6EEA.8C4FB5E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6EEA.8C4FB5E0 That would be pretty tough tolerance to hold when working with cane ! =However, I work to that sort of tolerances in metal, every day. BTW, on reaming of holes for ferrules. There will be a certain amount of ="bell mouth" effect, in that the opening will be a bit larger, than the =bottom of the hole. (female ferrule) Some, like Winston, used a Sunnen =hone, to hone the inside perfectly straight. That is the bottom of the =hole is honed, to make it the same as the mouth. In small quantity, this =can be done with a male lap. The lap would only make contact for the =first 1/4" to 3/8", so the cutting would be down inside, rather at the =mouth. GMA Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking I hope I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when you mention =.00001 tolerance. Or did you hic-up when you typed the zero's. Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Technical question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips the other night, I started to =wonder about the technical aspects of the tapers vs. the practical =aspects.In the experience of whomever wants to comment, just how far 'off' =of the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the rod feel and fish =the same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted in theory there=would be a difference with any deviation from the stated taper =dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or what =has been your actual experience? I realize this is just some more of my weird questions, but it =helps to fill in gaps in the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6EEA.8C4FB5E0 That would be pretty tough tolerance to hold when working with cane= However, I work to that sort of tolerances in metal, every day. BTW, on reaming of holes for ferrules. There will be a certain = "bell mouth" effect, in that the opening will be a bit larger, than the = of the hole. (female ferrule) Some, like Winston, used a Sunnen hone, to = the inside perfectly straight. That is the bottom of the hole is honed, = it the same as the mouth. In small quantity, this can be done with a = The lap would only make contact for the first 1/4" to 3/8", so the = be down inside, rather at the mouth. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Jensen rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, February 03, = PMSubject: RE: Technical = practically speaking hope I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when you mention = tolerance. Or did you hic-up when you typed the =zero's. Martin Jensen ----- Original Message ----- = michael Sent: Wednesday, February = 7:22 AMSubject: Technical = practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips= night, I started to wonder about the technical aspects of the = the practical aspects.In the experience of whomever = comment, just how far 'off' of the dimensions can one stray (+ or = accuracy. Granted in theory there would be a difference with any = from the stated taper dimensions, but from a practical standpoint = you think, or what has been your actual experience? I realize this is just some more = bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF6EEA.8C4FB5E0-- from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Feb 4 10:24:00 2000 "dati@selway.umt.edu" Subject: Re: final dimension Darin First insure you had good angles on the strip that you planed - checkallthree dimensions on the strip, if they are the same then: Three things to check: The form itself, The tip of the depth gauge, and then calibration ofthedepth gauge - Your problem may be one or any combination of the aforementioned. Chris I carefully planed the first butt strip of my first rod down to finaldimension and you know what? I was off by 0.010" at the butt end. Thiserror reduced as I moved up the strip to the tip end. I am not sure why Iwas off by so much at the butt end and off only between 0.001 and0.005" at the tip end. My wife told me last night that it was all right because if I wereperfect at planing then it wouldn't be fun anymore. Anyway, I have a lot of room to improve. Thanks to all on this list forthe helpful advice. I look forward to finishing the rod and fishing it. Darin Law from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Feb 4 10:28:46 2000 "ernie2@pacbell.net" Subject: Re: Easier way to make splices. Ernie It is not the best way nor the quickest. A sanded surface is no where as good as a planed surface for gluing.You willnot get the strength - ask any woodworker. Second, I can plane a splice in 5-8 seconds - so you have no real timesavings in that step of building nodeless. You spend far more time in thestrippreparationand gluing phases of the process. Chris On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:51:47 -0800, Ernie Harrison wrote: Hans Kohl's e-mail in the archives seems like the best way to taperbamboosections for splicing. He suggests using a sanding disc instead of asplicing block. Any of you nodeless rod makers using this? If so how doyou like it?Ernie from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Feb 4 10:56:09 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper Rod Makers Resending... FE Thomas Special Streamer Rod Taper This is the powerhouse rod that Marty Keane speaks so fondly about in hisbook that he devotes about 1 1/2 pages to this rod. I re-took the measurements. This is a 9' 3 piece rod. Notes:The tip section was 1/2" short at the tip top. First measurement starts atthe butt end because of the short tip. Average varnish thickness. All measurements were averaging three measurements, flat to flat unlesstwoflats measurements were the same, then that diameter was used. Rod is a swelled butt, blond cane rod. This rod was completed January 30, 1941 and the first owner was S.S.Bauerswho bought it on May 20, 1941. This has a half Wells grip and is a 6 oz rodaccording to the original FE Thomas records. Wood spacer reel seat, 7-8wtrod. Butt11.5" .46815" .38220" .34025 .32530 .31035 at ferrule estimate .30540 .30045 .28550 .27555 .25560 .23465 .21870 .20575 .18680 .17585 .16890 .14995 .128100 .098105 .082107" .080tip top Jan Nystrom has one of these also and was planning to measure his for agiggle, will be interested in the comparison. Sorry about the wacky first measurement... new dial caliper and used thewrong scale... still faster than using a micrometer. If anyone builds this rod, I'd like to hear their results. Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Feb 4 11:02:57 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA29533 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id LAA12325 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 Subject: Re: Easier way to make splices. Ernie, I get my strips prep'd and organized and cut the splice on a small bandsaw with a little jig that slides in the miter slot. (Use a blade with small, sharp teeth.) (You get lots of little bamboo spearpoints on the floor.) Then in the splicing block and just a couple plane strokes gets the splice ready to glue.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:51:47 -0800, Ernie Harrison wrote: Hans Kohl's e-mail in the archives seems like the best way to taperbamboosections for splicing. He suggests using a sanding disc instead of asplicing block. Any of you nodeless rod makers using this? If so how doyou like it?Ernie from Mackelvane@aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:31:44 2000 Subject: steel planing forms Hello all. What started out as a simple curiosity has morphed into ahealthy infatuation. I'm getting tools together in an attempt to start building my own rods. I was wondering if anyone has plans for steel planing forms. Ihave full access to a machine shop and count several skilled machinists amongmy friends. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,Jeremy from JaguschR@aol.com Fri Feb 4 11:45:45 2000 Subject: Re: T&T (Glue) Hi Danny i am very sorry but i can't tell you what this glue is based on. He said it is a special mixture wich was developed expasily for him.All i can say that it is 1 compound an it has a white coulor which gets absolute clear when it has dryed.The working time is about 15-20 minutes. And here is the Adress Michael HèlsenbeckAm Walde 142929 Wermelskirchen-Dhènn Phone:02196-89311Fax:02196-702304 No e-mail Adress or Website :-( If you want one and resive any problems simply send me a Mail an i willget one for you. CURainereat..sleep..go fishing!! from jhewitt@cmn.net Fri Feb 4 13:28:09 2000 Subject: Carved Handles To the list...I am seeking information on anyone who produces carvedwooden grips for flyrods. Any info is appreciated, thanks in advance.John Hewitt from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Fri Feb 4 13:30:30 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Re:Hardy -Mitre Danny, Mitre -Hardy was to the best of my knowledge an English make which triedto capitalise on the good name of 'Hardy'but to which it had noconnection.Mitre- Hardy rods are quite an easy find here in England andone can expect to pay little more than say £50 sterling for a goodexample.I suspect the name of your reel i.e Mitre -Hardy Jewel was a marketingattempt at trying to copy the name of the 'Hardy ' Gem fly reel .I alsosuspect that these reels were made by Youngs of Redditch but cannot becertain of this .I hope all of this is of some interest. Tight Lines......Paul B Danny Twang wrote: To Harry, and all. Thank You Harry, now I don't have to worry about writhing to thelist:-) There was no trouble, I enjoyed it, and taking this as a part of myrodmaking education.Beside most of You have done the same, just look at all the tapersavailableon the Rodmakers. BTW, have any of You heard about a reel called "Mitre-Hardy 3 1/4,Jewel" Ibought it with aHGH silkline in mint condition. Costed me ca $35,- regardsdanny from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Feb 4 13:41:22 2000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Spinner Hi John,The rod you have is a Horrocks-Ibbotson and the diamond shaped symbolstamped into the reel seat UTK was one of their trademarks. That symbolwasused in the period from 1905 -1919 so it's an old rod and not often seen.Horrocks Ibbotson was one of the mass producers of fairly inexpensiverodsand made thousands of fly rods and apparently some spin cast rods aswell.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Spinner Anyone out there able to tell me anything about an old Bamboo a friend ofmine picked up? The thing is a spin-cast configuration with a flatteneddiamond logo having UTK stamped into it. It had a reel seat that has ahook Idon't know enough to tell him much about it. It has been rewound if onecould stretch his imagination that far!!! Looks like a real junker buthe'scurious about it, so I'm askin'?? Any help out there in this vast store of bamboo knowledge??? TIA, John Cerise from listreader@codemarine.com Fri Feb 4 14:13:16 2000 bycodemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Various questions... Hello, all. My progress towards getting my first set of rod(s) completed continues. Ihave threeCattanach taper (7' 3pc #3/4) blanks and one Gould taper (5' 1pc #4) blankawaiting aferrule order and varnishing. I taped a reel seat, grip, and a few guides tothe 5' blankand casted it by kneeling down in my hallway last night--loads of fun andI can't wait tohave these rods done so I can fish with them (and start on the next one). Two questions... (1) I've had a hard time getting the blanks straight, especially right aftergluing. I'musing Nyatex epoxy, binding and straightening by hand, letting it sit anhour or two,straightening again, and finally heating about 10 minutes to cure beforeremoving thebinding thread. After scraping/sanding off the glue, I finally was able toget the blanksfairly straight with a heat gun by taping on guides and eyeing down theshaft. Tediouswork. I'm using a flat board as a roller, a paint roller, etc to straightenduring gluingbut the blanks still require heat-gun work after drying. Any tricks? (2) I'm getting ready to varnish using heated Pratt & Lambert Varmor R10in aslow-draining dip tube. Any gotchas I should be aware of? I'm assuming Ithat I do NOTthin this type of varnish. I've read contradictory opinions as to whether ornot I need aspecial polish. Advice? Thanks a lot for the help so far. I'll post screen shots of the finishedproduct ifpeople are interested in getting a chuckle or two out of a newbie effort. Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from leroyt@involved.com Fri Feb 4 14:17:51 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:17:45 -0800 Subject: Re: steel planing forms Go to the Rodmakers site and look for a Thomas Penrose. Has a good articleonmaking metal forms, Jack Howell book, Wayne C's book and lastlyGarrisonsbook.Leroy......... from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Feb 4 14:39:16 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: Philadelphia Sorry if this is a bit off topic but I'll be in Philadelphia in two weekson business and was wondering if there are any top-rated fly shops orsellers of rod building suppliers I should visit. Please e-mail me off list. Thanks, Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Feb 4 14:39:17 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: RE: Various questions... Here's the number one trick to straighten a freshly glued blank. I learnedthis from this list about a year ago and it works fabulously well. Also, ittakes about 2 minutes to do. 1. Don't bind the rod too tightly. The sections must be able to slideagainst each other in straightening;2. Hold the glued section by the butt and whack the rod against ahorizontal flat surface.3. Turn the section to the next flat and whack it again.4. Continue whacking on all flats if needed. Usually, about 4-5 whacks are all you need to get the blank arrow straightand twist-less. My apologies to the person who taught me this. I can't remember thesourceof this valuable info. I do remember a thread about this technique workingwell on six-sided rods but not on pentas or quadrates. Richard (1) I've had a hard time getting the blanks straight,especially right after gluing. I'm using Nyatex epoxy,binding and straightening by hand, letting it sit an hour ortwo, straightening again, and finally heating about 10minutes to cure before removing the binding thread. Afterscraping/sanding off the glue, I finally was able to get theblanks fairly straight with a heat gun by taping on guidesand eyeing down the shaft. Tedious work. I'm using a flatboard as a roller, a paint roller, etc to straighten duringgluing but the blanks still require heat-gun work afterdrying. Any tricks? from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Feb 4 16:18:45 2000 Subject: Herter's rod I know this is not bamboo related, but a friend of mine asked forsome help and I said I would try. He has a Herters fiberglass rod thatwas his grandfather's and he wants me to redo the wraps. I suggestedthatwe research it a little first.The rod is brown , 2pc about 9' long, has rainbow wraps(orange,yellow, green),it has a aluminum d/l reel seat and a reverse tapered grip. Below theHerters logo there is a # KB610. I don't know what the ferrules aremade of but would guess they are cheap plated.The reel is a Hardy Viscount 150 that doesn't seem as old??I would appreciate any info on these items and their makers.Thanks, Shawn from caneman@clnk.com Fri Feb 4 16:27:21 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:24:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Various questions... Steve,#1 thing you need is a well tuned binder. I know, there are some thatare going to say that you can hand bind just as easily as you can with abinder, BUT, my blanks come out of the binder almost perfect and needverylittle "tweeking". There have been a few occasions, where I got the stringoff, did a little sanding, looked down the blank, and did nothing more thansmile! Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Various questions... Hello, all. My progress towards getting my first set of rod(s) completed continues. Ihave three Cattanach taper (7' 3pc #3/4) blanks and one Gould taper (5'1pc#4) blank awaiting a ferrule order and varnishing. I taped a reel seat,grip, and a few guides to the 5' blank and casted it by kneeling down in myhallway last night--loads of fun and I can't wait to have these rods donesoI can fish with them (and start on the next one). Two questions... (1) I've had a hard time getting the blanks straight, especially rightafter gluing. I'm using Nyatex epoxy, binding and straightening by hand,letting it sit an hour or two, straightening again, and finally heatingabout 10 minutes to cure before removing the binding thread. Afterscraping/sanding off the glue, I finally was able to get the blanks fairlystraight with a heat gun by taping on guides and eyeing down the shaft.Tedious work. I'm using a flat board as a roller, a paint roller, etc tostraighten during gluing but the blanks still require heat-gun work afterdrying. Any tricks? (2) I'm getting ready to varnish using heated Pratt & Lambert Varmor R10ina slow-draining dip tube. Any gotchas I should be aware of? I'm assuming Ithat I do NOT thin this type of varnish. I've read contradictory opinions asto whether or not I need a special polish. Advice? Thanks a lot for the help so far. I'll post screen shots of the finishedproduct if people are interested in getting a chuckle or two out of anewbieeffort. Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from caneman@clnk.com Fri Feb 4 16:29:01 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:26:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Various questions... Richard,I can see how that might work with a straight taper, but what about acompound taper... wouldn't you be whacking a crook in the rod at everyflat? Bob -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Various questions... Here's the number one trick to straighten a freshly glued blank. I learnedthis from this list about a year ago and it works fabulously well. Also, ittakes about 2 minutes to do. 1. Don't bind the rod too tightly. The sections must be able to slideagainst each other in straightening;2. Hold the glued section by the butt and whack the rod against ahorizontal flat surface.3. Turn the section to the next flat and whack it again.4. Continue whacking on all flats if needed. Usually, about 4-5 whacks are all you need to get the blank arrowstraightand twist-less. My apologies to the person who taught me this. I can't remember thesourceof this valuable info. I do remember a thread about this techniqueworkingwell on six-sided rods but not on pentas or quadrates. Richard (1) I've had a hard time getting the blanks straight,especially right after gluing. I'm using Nyatex epoxy,binding and straightening by hand, letting it sit an hour ortwo, straightening again, and finally heating about 10minutes to cure before removing the binding thread. Afterscraping/sanding off the glue, I finally was able to get theblanks fairly straight with a heat gun by taping on guidesand eyeing down the shaft. Tedious work. I'm using a flatboard as a roller, a paint roller, etc to straighten duringgluing but the blanks still require heat-gun work afterdrying. Any tricks? from stpete@netten.net Fri Feb 4 16:30:58 2000 Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:33:24 -0600 Subject: Re: steel planing forms Jeremy, Use the machine shop to purchase and cut in half the steel keystock,drill and tap the holes, and to mill a lathe tool block as diagramed byBruce Conner (available via 'Rodmakers'). Truing up or squaring thekeystock and cutting the groove might best be done by hand. See ThomasPenrose's page via 'Rodmakers'. There has been more than one person onthis list who met disappointment and trouble setting up the mill to facethe stock (warps badly under the mill) and cut the tapered groove. It'snot that hard to do. Just lots of elbow grease and a few calluses. Rick C. Mackelvane@aol.com wrote: Hello all. What started out as a simple curiosity has morphed into ahealthyinfatuation. I'm getting tools together in an attempt to start building myown rods. I was wondering if anyone has plans for steel planing forms. Ihavefull access to a machine shop and count several skilled machinistsamong myfriends. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,Jeremy from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 4 16:47:31 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Bamboo Spinner Isn't 1910 even a bit early for spin-casting rods? Maybe it is a baitcaster? At 11:41 AM 2/4/00 -0800, you wrote:Hi John,The rod you have is a Horrocks-Ibbotson and the diamond shaped symbolstamped into the reel seat UTK was one of their trademarks. That symbolwasused in the period from 1905 -1919 so it's an old rod and not often seen.Horrocks Ibbotson was one of the mass producers of fairly inexpensiverodsand made thousands of fly rods and apparently some spin cast rods aswell.Ray----- Original Message -----From: John K. Cerise Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 3:39 PMSubject: Bamboo Spinner Anyone out there able to tell me anything about an old Bamboo a friendofmine picked up? The thing is a spin-cast configuration with aflatteneddiamond logo having UTK stamped into it. It had a reel seat that has ahook Idon't know enough to tell him much about it. It has been rewound if onecould stretch his imagination that far!!! Looks like a real junker buthe'scurious about it, so I'm askin'?? Any help out there in this vast store of bamboo knowledge??? TIA, John Cerise Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 4 17:04:42 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Herter's rod I have a Herter's 7' glass rod. Wraps sound the same. Are these rods worth anything. Got mine when hunting down a reel.Bob At 06:10 PM 2/4/00 -0400, you wrote:I know this is not bamboo related, but a friend of mine asked forsome help and I said I would try. He has a Herters fiberglass rod thatwas his grandfather's and he wants me to redo the wraps. I suggestedthat we research it a little first.The rod is brown , 2pc about 9' long, has rainbow wraps(orange,yellow, green),it has a aluminum d/l reel seat and a reverse tapered grip. Below theHerters logo there is a # KB610. I don't know what the ferrules aremade of but would guess they are cheap plated.The reel is a Hardy Viscount 150 that doesn't seem as old??I would appreciate any info on these items and their makers.Thanks, Shawn from brewer@teleport.com Fri Feb 4 17:32:06 2000 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA05LFhP; Fri Feb 4 15:31:272000 Subject: Varnish Heating I would appreciate suggestions on what you folks do to warm the varnishonthose cold winter nights. Forgive me if this was covered recently. [2-3 teaspoons] in a paper cup? If so, how much time should I try? Whatdidyou tell your wife when you did this? I use an aluminum dip tube and have CAREFULLY heated it with a heat gunonlow. I don't feel comfortable doing this, as I have a fear of immolatingeverything near the varnish, including me. Is this a recipe for disaster? Iloosen the cap on the top of the tube to account for expansion and don't putthe gun near the opening. I'm not sure how flammable Varathane is and Idon't want to find out the hard way. I tried the previously mentioned cold water pipe heater, but I got the HomeDepot version that had a thermostat also, and we know that didn't work. Asource for one that didn't have a thermostat would be helpful if anyoneknows of one. Thanks, and stay warm! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from dpfitch@collins.rockwell.com Fri Feb 4 17:33:59 2000 2000 17:33:51 -0600 gatekeeper.collins.rockwell.com via smap (V4.2) 5-20-1999)) id8625687B.008176E9 ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 17:34:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Various questions... Steve: I've only built nodeless thus far and had very little (almost no)needto straighten after the Epon cured. Now studying construction with node. I'veread sections of four books that discuss the subject. The surface you usetostraighten needs to be flat. I've heard of guys who have a marble top fromanold dresser, another has a piece of plate glass, and another uses theFormicacounter in his kitchen. Start straightening at the butt end and work up. Notsure about a paint roller; did you mean one of the small, hard rubber orwoodwallpaper seam rollers? Tedious process, nonetheless (just having done alittleof it). RE dipping: I've had a couple of gents tell me they don't thin, and theirfinishes aren't the best I've seen. I built a finishing tube and dryingcabinet(9 feet tall). Pull rods from the finish tube versus draining. To date, usedtung oil base P&L spar, thinned 10%. (A friend of mine uses urethanethinned15%). I hesitate (about 1-2 mins at each wrap/guide as I pull. Even withthis process, I've had the slightest hint of a sag at the at a couple ofwraps.So, I think thinning is appropriate--especially if you don't heat the varnishinthe tube. When I replace my current varnish, I plan to thin to 20%, but I'vehad guys that tell me they've thinned 40%. One said 50%. Not sure if theyweredoing urethane or spar varnish. The potential for a sag on the rod isreduced way, I pull at speeds between 1.75 and 4.25 inches per MINUTE (by a smallDCmotor that I rigged with a on off switch. I control speed by using a DCpowersupply with different power levels (1.5v to 12v). If your drain is fasterthan4 inch p/minute, or you're dipping wrapped rods, I'd thin for sure. Worstcaseis another dip of the rod. By the way, Wayne Cattanach thins, says hesandsalmost all of every coat of vanish off--except the last. Wayne has verynicefinishes! Thicker varnish means a thicker coat--assuming the pull rate andtempof varnish are the same. Like all other things you might finish, morethinnercoats is better than a few (or one) thick coat. Good luck. I expect allot of other folks will chime in. Just about everyonehas an opinion about finishes, including that they have very little tonothingto do with how a rod performs. Dave "Steve Zimmerman" on 02/04/2000 02:16:15PM Please respond to listreader@codemarine.com Subject: Various questions... Hello, all. My progress towards getting my first set of rod(s) completed continues. Ihavethree Cattanach taper (7' 3pc #3/4) blanks and one Gould taper (5' 1pc #4)blankawaiting a ferrule order and varnishing. I taped a reel seat, grip, and a fewguides to the 5' blank and casted it by kneeling down in my hallway lastnight--loads of fun and I can't wait to have these rods done so I can fishwiththem (and start on the next one). Two questions... (1) I've had a hard time getting the blanks straight, especially right aftergluing. I'm using Nyatex epoxy, binding and straightening by hand, letting itsit an hour or two, straightening again, and finally heating about 10minutes tocure before removing the binding thread. After scraping/sanding off theglue, Ifinally was able to get the blanks fairly straight with a heat gun by tapingonguides and eyeing down the shaft. Tedious work. I'm using a flat board as aroller, a paint roller, etc to straighten during gluing but the blanks stillrequire heat-gun work after drying. Any tricks? (2) I'm getting ready to varnish using heated Pratt & Lambert Varmor R10in aslow-draining dip tube. Any gotchas I should be aware of? I'm assuming Ithat Ido NOT thin this type of varnish. I've read contradictory opinions as towhetheror not I need a special polish. Advice? Thanks a lot for the help so far. I'll post screen shots of the finishedproductif people are interested in getting a chuckle or two out of a newbie effort. Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Feb 4 17:40:54 2000 (MET) Subject: Fario boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3032642397_109346_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3032642397_109346_MIME_Part To all Here it is, Fario 8'5" #5-6, impregnated, build by Sharps of Aberdeen. Guidespacing: 4 2/8, 10 5/8, 18 1/4, 26 1/4, 34, 41 3/4, 49 3/4/// 591/2,67 3/4 and 76 Tip: 1392 mm Butt: 1222 mm 1 1/4 - ,086 57 - ,2675 - ,100 60 - ,26910 - ,114 65 - ,27715 - ,131 70 - ,28620 - ,144 75 - ,29625 - ,158 80 - ,30030 - ,172 85 - ,31035 - ,190 90 - ,32240 - ,20545 - ,22549 - ,23652 1/2 - ,248 Enjoydanny--MS_Mac_OE_3032642397_109346_MIME_Part Fario To all Here it is, Fario 8'5" #5-6, impregnated, build by Sharps ofAberdeen.= Guidespacing: 4 2/8, 10 5/8, 18 1/4, 26 1/4, 34, 41 3/4, 49 3/4/// 591/2, =67 3/4 and 76 5  = 9 p;,114 p;,131 p;,144 p;,158 p;,172 p;,190 p;,205 p;,225 p;,236 Enjoydanny --MS_Mac_OE_3032642397_109346_MIME_Part-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 4 18:17:57 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Varnish Heating and pipe heaters Hi Randy,I cut out the thermostat on one of those and rewired it. No big deal. Works great. Takes about 45 minutes to heat to 90* or so. My basement is about 55* and this still works okay for me. I think the flash point ( right term?) on most varnishes is higher than 150*, but I am not sure on that. A friend who sprays guitar varnishes says he can heat the varnish up toabout 5 degrees below the "flash point" and he gets his best results. He said the "flash point" on his varnish is 158* but he uses a traditional type, not a urethane like I do.I am still a newbie, but I can say that my finishes all sucked until I started really warming them up to 90 or 95*. Now they are almost good enough to show someone! Ha ha! I really want to get the varnish thing right because we all know that it is the first thing people scrutinize over. Even if you never intend to sell a rod (I don't really plan to), I would take pride in the finish. With a good amount of care sanding, I feel it is attainable by anybody. I haven't even rigged up a motor yet! I use a reel and figured out that the rate is almost one reel turn for every 4" of withdrawal. I watch my wristwatch and try to pace myself through it. Not rocket science, but I am no Payne either and never said I was.Best regards, At 03:08 PM 2/4/00 -0800, you wrote:I would appreciate suggestions on what you folks do to warm the varnishonthose cold winter nights. Forgive me if this was covered recently. varnish[2-3 teaspoons] in a paper cup? If so, how much time should I try? Whatdidyou tell your wife when you did this? I use an aluminum dip tube and have CAREFULLY heated it with a heat gunonlow. I don't feel comfortable doing this, as I have a fear of immolatingeverything near the varnish, including me. Is this a recipe for disaster? Iloosen the cap on the top of the tube to account for expansion and don'tputthe gun near the opening. I'm not sure how flammable Varathane is and Idon't want to find out the hard way. I tried the previously mentioned cold water pipe heater, but I got theHomeDepot version that had a thermostat also, and we know that didn't work. Asource for one that didn't have a thermostat would be helpful if anyoneknows of one. Thanks, and stay warm! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from can@telusplanet.net Fri Feb 4 19:18:52 2000 telusplanet.net") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with ESMTP Subject: Leonard 37 Taper Does anybody have a taper for this rod, I am led to believe it's a 7' 3wt. Also what is the signifigance of designaters such as H, L DH withLeonard rods I see in the Archives?-- CheersCraig from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Feb 4 20:27:02 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: RE: Various questions... rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Bob, I turned to this system specifically because compound tapers weresucha drag to do using the traditional hand-rolling method. For some reason,this works, even on butt sections that have a swelled butt. I think thereason it works is that it isn't the surface which is straightening thesection but rather the inertia of having all the sections pulled bycentrifugal force when they come to a sudden stop. I'm not an engineer,though, and this is speculation. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 5:26 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Various questions... Richard,I can see how that might work with a straight taper, butwhat about acompound taper... wouldn't you be whacking a crook in the rodat every flat? Bob from martinjensen@home.com Fri Feb 4 21:53:34 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:53:18 -0800 Subject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6F49.6AD12390" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6F49.6AD12390 That must just kill you to only build a rod to ..001 tolerance when you usesuch tight tolerances in your day to day work. I just changed careers fromamarine machinist to computers and as a machinist ..001 was generally apretty close tolerance. A pretty easy jump to rod building as far astolerances go... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 6:34 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking That would be pretty tough tolerance to hold when working with cane !However, I work to that sort of tolerances in metal, every day. BTW, on reaming of holes for ferrules. There will be a certain amount of"bell mouth" effect, in that the opening will be a bit larger, than thebottom of the hole. (female ferrule) Some, like Winston, used a Sunnenhone,to hone the inside perfectly straight. That is the bottom of the hole ishoned, to make it the same as the mouth. In small quantity, this can bedonewith a male lap. The lap would only make contact for the first 1/4" to3/8",so the cutting would be down inside, rather at the mouth. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Martin Jensen Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking I hope I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when you mention.00001 tolerance. Or did you hic-up when you typed the zero's. Martin Jensen ----- Original Message -----From: michael Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Technical question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips the other night, I started towonder about the technical aspects of the tapers vs. the practical aspects.In the experience of whomever wants to comment, just how far 'off'of the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the rod feel and fish thesame as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted in theory therewouldbe a difference with any deviation from the stated taper dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or what has been youractualexperience? I realize this is just some more of my weird questions, but it helpsto fill in gaps in the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6F49.6AD12390 must just kill you to only build a rod to ..001 tolerance when you use = tight tolerances in your day to day work. I just changed careers from a = machinist to computers and as a machinist ..001 was generally a pretty = go... Jensen rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Technical question- practically speakingThat would be pretty tough tolerance to hold when working with = However, I work to that sort of tolerances in metal, every day. BTW, on reaming of holes for ferrules. There will be a certain = "bell mouth" effect, in that the opening will be a bit larger, than = of the hole. (female ferrule) Some, like Winston, used a Sunnen hone, = the inside perfectly straight. That is the bottom of the hole is = make it the same as the mouth. In small quantity, this can be done = lap. The lap would only make contact for the first 1/4" to 3/8", so = cutting would be down inside, rather at the mouth. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Jensen rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, February 03, = PMSubject: RE: Technical = practically speaking hope I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when you mention = tolerance. Or did you hic-up when you typed the =zero's. Martin Jensen ----- Original Message ----- = michael Sent: Wednesday, February = 7:22 AMSubject: Technical = practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my = night, I started to wonder about the technical aspects of the = the practical aspects.In the experience of whomever = comment, just how far 'off' of the dimensions can one stray (+ = have the rod feel and fish the same as one made to within = accuracy. Granted in theory there would be a difference with any = deviation from the stated taper dimensions, but from a practical = experience? I realize this is just some = bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF6F49.6AD12390-- from richjez@enteract.com Fri Feb 4 22:04:44 2000 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) , Subject: Re: T&T boundary="=====================_12395488==_.ALT" --=====================_12395488==_.ALT You can find conversation programs at www.shareware.com. They arefreeware or shareware.Rich Jezioro At 07:22 AM 2/4/00 -0600, nobler wrote:It's easier by far if you convert to decimals, i.e. 1/4" = .250", and 1mm =.03937" Radio Shack sells a neat calculator for under $15, that has allmetric conversions from inches, and visa versa. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Danny Twang" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 1:05 AMSubject: Re: T&T Mike Leitheiser wrote: Danny,I woould like to see the Fario Club taper to compare to the one onRodmakerswhich came from a rod I have..... Hi Mike Will do tonight.The rod is not a Pezone et Michel , but made by Sharps of Aberdeen.Got the numbers wrong, the Fario is 8`6" and the Hardy 8`9", I'm notusedto theinch yet....to many numbers. Cant figure out all that dividing of the inch, 1/4,1/16,1/64......... danny *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_12395488==_.ALT You can find conversation programs atwww.shareware.com.They are freeware or shareware. Rich Jezioro At 07:22 AM 2/4/00 -0600, nobler wrote:It's easier by far if you convert to decimals,i.e. 1/4" =3D .250", and 1mm =3D.03937" Radio Shack sells a neat calculator for under $15, that hasallmetric conversions from inches, and visa versa. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: T&T onRodmakers Aberdeen. 8`9", I'm not usedto the 1/16, *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_12395488==_.ALT-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 4 22:24:57 2000 with ESMTP id Subject: Hollow rods All, I'm almost ready to start my latest project rod. I want to make aHolbrook 9 wt rod, but I want to make it hollow. At the PA Rodmakers'Gathering, Tom Smithwick had a really nice rod that was hollow builtaccording to the "Powell method", though I'm not familiar with it. Ialso know Per Brandin does a fine hollow rod that's feather light. Somy question is how should I go about tackling the Holbrook Mod. 310, 81/2 ft 9 wt.? I'd like to use it as a bass/pike rod for fishing inCanada this summer. Any input would be most welcome. TIA, Dennis from stpete@netten.net Fri Feb 4 22:52:26 2000 Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:55:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Heating I varnish in my attic where my workshop is located. It is usually about72+ degrees up there, so I don't use a heater, but I have a heating cordmade for starting seedlings that some good nurseries carry. They comein different lengths, mine is about 8 ft long total. It gets up toabout 70* and is waterproof of course. You can soon use it to starttomatoes with after you varnish your rod :) Rick Randy Brewer wrote: I would appreciate suggestions on what you folks do to warm the varnishonthose cold winter nights. Forgive me if this was covered recently. varnish[2-3 teaspoons] in a paper cup? If so, how much time should I try? Whatdidyou tell your wife when you did this? I use an aluminum dip tube and have CAREFULLY heated it with a heat gunonlow. I don't feel comfortable doing this, as I have a fear of immolatingeverything near the varnish, including me. Is this a recipe for disaster? Iloosen the cap on the top of the tube to account for expansion and don'tputthe gun near the opening. I'm not sure how flammable Varathane is and Idon't want to find out the hard way. I tried the previously mentioned cold water pipe heater, but I got theHomeDepot version that had a thermostat also, and we know that didn't work.Asource for one that didn't have a thermostat would be helpful if anyoneknows of one. Thanks, and stay warm! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Feb 5 06:47:09 2000 Subject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF6FAF.57797200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF6FAF.57797200 Martin,I was just speaking to someone the other day who does and is well known= reply was that due to the modern tooling we have available to us now, =the rods built today are far and away more accurate than those by the ="classic" builders.Apparently a number of the classic rods had tolerances of =3D or - .004 =and larger, but this apparently didn't affect the rod's useablilty. So, = Another point brought up by noted builders that a given numerical =tolerance ie .001, .002 is not necessarily a totally valid figure when =the tapering design of the rod is considered. Hence the use of a =percentage figure appears more valid; which is to say, 4% tolerance in =measurements is acceptable over the length of the rod.Using this approach, which I like for what that's worth, you will get a =different tolerance figure for each rod section while still staying =within the tolerance you select.So much for my gabbing, but I do want to thank all those who have had =input on this questionand I don't want to belabor the point, but at =least now I have a different and I feel better way to try to establish =an accuracy goal for my own meager efforts!Thanks to all, Mike -----Original Message-----From: Martin Jensen ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Friday, February 04, 2000 10:58 PMSubject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking That must just kill you to only build a rod to ..001 tolerance when =you use such tight tolerances in your day to day work. I just changed =careers from a marine machinist to computers and as a machinist ..001 =was generally a pretty close tolerance. A pretty easy jump to rod =building as far as tolerances go... -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 6:34 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking That would be pretty tough tolerance to hold when working with =cane ! However, I work to that sort of tolerances in metal, every day. BTW, on reaming of holes for ferrules. There will be a certain =amount of "bell mouth" effect, in that the opening will be a bit larger, =than the bottom of the hole. (female ferrule) Some, like Winston, used a =Sunnen hone, to hone the inside perfectly straight. That is the bottom =of the hole is honed, to make it the same as the mouth. In small =quantity, this can be done with a male lap. The lap would only make =contact for the first 1/4" to 3/8", so the cutting would be down inside, =rather at the mouth. GMA Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking I hope I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when you =mention .00001 tolerance. Or did you hic-up when you typed the zero's. Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Technical question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips the other night, I =started to wonder about the technical aspects of the tapers vs. the =practical aspects.In the experience of whomever wants to comment, just =how far 'off' of the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the rod =feel and fish the same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted =in theory there would be a difference with any deviation from the stated =taper dimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or =what has been your actual experience? I realize this is just some more of my weird =questions, but it helps to fill in gaps in the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF6FAF.57797200 Martin,I wasjust = someone the other day who does and is well known for his rods and the = tooling we have available to us now, the rods built today are far and = accurate than those by the "classic" builders.Apparently a number of the classic rods had = So, tolerances of .001" are seemingly just fine. Another point brought up by noted builders that a = numerical tolerance ie .001, .002 is not necessarily a totally valid = the tapering design of the rod is considered. Hence the use of a = figure appears more valid; which is to say, 4% tolerance in measurements= acceptable over the length of the rod.Usingthis = like for what that's worth, you will get a different tolerance figure = rod section while still staying within the tolerance you =select.So much I do want to thank all those who have had input on this questionand I = to belabor the point, but at least now I have a different and I feel = to try to establish an accuracy goal for my own meager =efforts!Thanks to all, Mike -----Original = ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, February 04, 2000 10:58 PMSubject: RE: = question- practically speakingThat must just kill you to only build a= ..001 tolerance when you use such tight tolerances in your day to = I just changed careers from a marine machinist to computers and as a = machinist ..001 was generally a pretty close tolerance. A pretty = to rod building as far as tolerances go... Jensen rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Technical = practically speakingThat would be pretty tough tolerance to hold when working = ! However, I work to that sort of tolerances in metal, every =day. BTW, on reaming of holes for ferrules. There will be a = amount of "bell mouth" effect, in that the opening = bit larger, than the bottom of the hole. (female ferrule) Some, = Winston, used a Sunnen hone, to hone the inside perfectly = is the bottom of the hole is honed, to make it the same as the = small quantity, this can be done with a male lap. The lap would = make contact for the first 1/4" to 3/8", so the = be down inside, rather at the mouth. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Martin Jensen Sent: Thursday, = 2000 10:54 PMSubject: RE: = question- practically speaking I hope I can assume that you have= "tongue in cheek" when you mention .00001 = did you hic-up when you typed the =zero's. Martin =Jensen ----- Original = michael Sent: = Subject: = question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring = strips the other night, I started to wonder about = aspects.In the experience = wants to comment, just how far 'off' of the = one stray (+ or -) yet have the rod feel and fish = as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted = theory there would be a difference with any = the stated taper dimensions, but from a practical = experience? I realize this is = more of my weird questions, but it helps to fill in = the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF6FAF.57797200-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Feb 5 07:03:34 2000 Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:03:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Dickerson tapers boundary="------------2AC6C89B73B2E25530D28020" --------------2AC6C89B73B2E25530D28020 Sixto,On the Hardy CC de France taper you posted, does this rod haveon offset ferrule or something? Unless I am mistaken it looks as if yourmeasurements show the ferrule at 46" point instead of 42.5". Is thiscorrect? That would make the butt longer than the tip.Shawn"Sixto F. Saez" wrote: Thanks for the tapers. Attached are the tapers in the Excelspreadsheet in text form. Sorry for the delay but I spent the last twodays working on my next rod. My company was closed for 2 days becauseof the snow so I decided to spend this unexpected bonus on my rodinstead of on the 'net. You may have the Payne tapers because I thinkI got those from the Rod Makers web site. My second rod was theCattenach taper. It certainly has lived up to it's description. It'smy favorite trout rod, short enough for most brushy streams but withenough backbone to throw a 6wt line a fishable distance when I forgotto bring the reel with the 4wt line. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 13:54 Subject: Dickerson tapers "Shawn Pineo, New Scotland Flyrods" wrote: Hey Sixto,sorry I took so long to get these to you.Please excuse the text format, but I'm still new atcomputers and I don't have a document program yet. Ihaven't built any of these yet and this is all the info Ihave on them. Sixto I couldn't read those tapers because Idon't have Exel...pitty. ... --------------2AC6C89B73B2E25530D28020 Sixto, deFrance taper you posted, does this rod have on offset ferrule orsomething?Unless I am mistaken it looks as if your measurements show the ferruleat 46" point instead of 42.5". Is this correct? That would make the buttlonger than the tip. Shawn"Sixto F. Saez" wrote: form. Sorry for the delay but I spent the last two days working on my nextrod. My company was closed for 2 days because of the snow so I decidedto spend this unexpected bonus on my rod instead of on the 'net. You mayhave the Payne tapers because I think I got those from the Rod Makers website. My second rod was the Cattenach taper. It certainly has lived upto it's description. It's my favorite trout rod, short enough for mostbrushy streams but with enough backbone to throw a 6wt line a fishabledistance when I forgot to bring the reel with the 4wtline. -----OriginalMessage----- Sent: Tuesday, January 25,2000 13:54 sf_saez@email.msn.comSubject: Dickersontapers "Shawn Pineo, New Scotland Flyrods" wrote:Hey Sixto, sorry I took so long to get these to you. Please excuse the text format,but I'm still new at computers and I don't have a document program yet.I haven't built any of these yet and this is all the info I have on them.Sixto I couldn't read those tapers because I don't have Exel...pitty. --------------2AC6C89B73B2E25530D28020-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Feb 5 07:12:35 2000 Subject: John Parker John,Someone told me you used to beat some iron too!Give me a buzz, Mike from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Feb 5 08:02:52 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 5 Feb 2000 08:03:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Heating from past experiences, it seems pretty clear that heating the varnish toatleast 90* F., will produce not only better penetration, but a nicer finish,with less chance of runs. When applying epoxies, heating the surface to bepainted, or glues results in better penetration of the glue, and a smootherapplication of the enamel. It seems a worthwhile test to see how hot the varnish can be, and stillworkwell. When applying heat to decrease the set up time of epoxy, too muchheatwill cause unwanted bubbling. Getting the temperature just below thispoint,would seem to be ideal. Has anyone here done anything like this ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Varnish Heating I varnish in my attic where my workshop is located. It is usually about72+ degrees up there, so I don't use a heater, but I have a heating cordmade for starting seedlings that some good nurseries carry. They comein different lengths, mine is about 8 ft long total. It gets up toabout 70* and is waterproof of course. You can soon use it to starttomatoes with after you varnish your rod :) Rick Randy Brewer wrote: I would appreciate suggestions on what you folks do to warm thevarnishonthose cold winter nights. Forgive me if this was covered recently. varnish[2-3 teaspoons] in a paper cup? If so, how much time should I try?Whatdidyou tell your wife when you did this? I use an aluminum dip tube and have CAREFULLY heated it with a heatgunonlow. I don't feel comfortable doing this, as I have a fear of immolatingeverything near the varnish, including me. Is this a recipe fordisaster? Iloosen the cap on the top of the tube to account for expansion and don'tputthe gun near the opening. I'm not sure how flammable Varathane is and Idon't want to find out the hard way. I tried the previously mentioned cold water pipe heater, but I got theHomeDepot version that had a thermostat also, and we know that didn'twork.Asource for one that didn't have a thermostat would be helpful if anyoneknows of one. Thanks, and stay warm! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 5 08:40:52 2000 Subject: Re: Hollow rods Dennis - Richard Tyree's article in TPF, or "The Best of TPF" will explain the Powell method. My article on The French Rod in TPF describes a faster method of cutting the hollows, but the result is the same. I would consider adding about 2-3% to the butt dimensions to keep the performance of the rod about the same. Hollow rods do lose a bit of zip compared to the same rod built solid. from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Feb 5 08:51:47 2000 Subject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking The last 3 planing forms that I have bought have adjustment screws every21/2" for 30" so that I can better control the tip's taper. ---------- Subject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking Martin,I was just speaking to someone the other day who does and is well knownforhis rods and the accuracy question was posed by me to him. His reply wasthat due to the modern tooling we have available to us now, the rods builttoday are far and away more accurate than those by the "classic" builders.Apparently a number of the classic rods had tolerances of = or - .004 andlarger, but this apparently didn't affect the rod's useablilty. So,tolerances of .001" are seemingly just fine. Another point brought up by noted builders that a given numericaltoleranceie .001, .002 is not necessarily a totally valid figure when the taperingdesign of the rod is considered. Hence the use of a percentage figureappears more valid; which is to say, 4% tolerance in measurements isacceptable over the length of the rod.Using this approach, which I like for what that's worth, you will get adifferent tolerance figure for each rod section while still staying withinthe tolerance you select.So much for my gabbing, but I do want to thank all those who have hadinputon this questionand I don't want to belabor the point, but at least now Ihave a different and I feel better way to try to establish an accuracy goal Thanks to all, Mike -----Original Message-----From: Martin Jensen ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, February 04, 2000 10:58 PMSubject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking That must just kill you to only build a rod to ..001 tolerance when youuse such tight tolerances in your day to day work. I just changed careers from a marine machinist to computers and as a machinist ..001 wasgenerallya pretty close tolerance. A pretty easy jump to rod building as far astolerances go... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 6:34 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Technical question- practically speaking That would be pretty tough tolerance to hold when working with cane! However, I work to that sort of tolerances in metal, every day. BTW, on reaming of holes for ferrules. There will be a certainamount of "bell mouth" effect, in that the opening will be a bit larger,than the bottom of the hole. (female ferrule) Some, like Winston, used aSunnen hone, to hone the inside perfectly straight. That is the bottom ofthe hole is honed, to make it the same as the mouth. In small quantity,this can be done with a male lap. The lap would only make contact for thefirst 1/4" to 3/8", so the cutting would be down inside, rather at themouth. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Jensen Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: RE: Technical question- practically speaking I hope I can assume that you have "tongue in cheek" when youmention .00001 tolerance. Or did you hic-up when you typed the zero's. Martin Jensen ----- Original Message ----- From: michael Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Technical question- practically speaking Guys,While measuring some of my strips the other night, Istarted to wonder about the technical aspects of the tapers vs. thepractical aspects.In the experience of whomever wants to comment, justhow far 'off' of the dimensions can one stray (+ or -) yet have the rodfeel and fish the same as one made to within .00001" accuracy. Granted intheory there would be a difference with any deviation from the statedtaperdimensions, but from a practical standpoint what do you think, or whathasbeen your actual experience? I realize this is just some more of my weird questions,but it helps to fill in gaps in the knowledge bank. Thanks, Mike from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:43:52 2000 Subject: Re: Varnish Heating Randy,I keep my shop (all 10' x 10' of it) between 70 * F. and 80* F. and that seems to do the trick. Also, if you're using a drying cabinet try misting the interior as if you don't the low humidity will cause the sticks to attract every mote in the air. Ask me how I know. Grin.Regards,Hank. from FlyfishT@aol.com Sat Feb 5 09:55:15 2000 Subject: Steel planing forms Hi jeremy,I made mine by hand as the premrose plans. I just wanted to say that i would change some things on the plans. I would start the tip section the first two stations at .020 and leave a 3in. excess on the first station. And on the butt side start at .060,the reason being alot of the2&3 wt. rod tapers start at lower Numbers. Hey you can always open theforms.Hope this helps, Tom N. from lars32@gateway.net Sat Feb 5 10:04:48 2000 Subject: Re: Carved Handles John,Wild River DistributingBox 223Marine on St. CroixMn 55047Tel. 651- 433-2610has wooden handles in a number of wood types for all types of rods,flyrodsincluded.they will even custom make them. They are made right there and notshippedto them from somewhere else. They Have been good to deal with. NO com.Int.etc.Dave N. -----Original Message----- Subject: Carved Handles To the list...I am seeking information on anyone who produces carvedwooden grips for flyrods. Any info is appreciated, thanks in advance.John Hewitt from lblove@cableone.net Sat Feb 5 10:04:49 2000 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:04:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Steel planing forms Hey Guys,I made mine from the plans in Howell's book, I used the shoulder boltmethod. I used 3/4" bar stock andmoved the centerline of the holes .045" off center to allow for larger buttsections. comments from a plebe in the peanut gallery,Brad----- Original Message ----- Subject: Steel planing forms Hi jeremy,I made mine by hand as the premrose plans. I just wanted tosay that i would change some things on the plans. I would start the tipsection the first two stations at .020 and leave a 3in. excess on thefirststation. And on the butt side start at .060,the reason being alot of the2&3wt. rod tapers start at lower Numbers. Hey you can always open theforms.Hope this helps,TomN. from brewer@teleport.com Sat Feb 5 12:28:17 2000 0000 (216.26.32.194) Subject: Re: Varnish Heating Thanks to all for your great suggestions. I think I'll save my heat gun forstraightening! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.comhttp://www.teleport.com/~brewer from martinjensen@home.com Sat Feb 5 12:53:39 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:53:33 -0800 Subject: RE: Hollow rods I built a 8.5 ft copy of a Granger Victory and hollowed it to great success.I used Richard Tyree's (Best of the Planing Form) specifications exactly.Instead of scraping out the sections though, I held each spline sectionwiththe pith pointing directly to the edge of a grinding wheel and simplygroundout the areas. It was really easy, quick, and with smooth deliberatemovements, easy to control the tolerance that you would want. NOTE: I didnot try to take it "all" in one pass. Many passes. They go pretty quick. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Hollow rods All, I'm almost ready to start my latest project rod. I want to make aHolbrook 9 wt rod, but I want to make it hollow. At the PA Rodmakers'Gathering, Tom Smithwick had a really nice rod that was hollow builtaccording to the "Powell method", though I'm not familiar with it. Ialso know Per Brandin does a fine hollow rod that's feather light. Somy question is how should I go about tackling the Holbrook Mod. 310, 81/2 ft 9 wt.? I'd like to use it as a bass/pike rod for fishing inCanada this summer. Any input would be most welcome. TIA, Dennis from dannyt@frisurf.no Sat Feb 5 13:24:39 2000 Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:24:35 +0100 (MET) Subject: Hardy Palakona 8'9" #7 boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3032713431_48097_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3032713431_48097_MIME_Part Here is the taper on Hardy Palakona 8'9" #7 Sections are 53"Guidespacing: 4, 9 1/2, 16, 24, 33 1/2, 44 1/2, 57, 73 1/2 Varnish is NOT subtracted 1 1/4 - ,093 55 - ,2615 - ,102 60 - ,27710 - ,116 65 - ,28715 - ,137 70 - ,30320 - ,153 75 - ,31325 - ,170 80 - ,32530 - ,188 85 - ,33635 - ,200 90 - ,34840 - ,215 94 - ,39045 - ,22850 - ,237 Regardsdanny--MS_Mac_OE_3032713431_48097_MIME_Part Hardy Palakona 8'9" #7 Here is the taper on Hardy Palakona 8'9" #7 Sections are 53"Guidespacing: 4, 9 1/2, 16, 24, 33 1/2, 44 1/2, 57, 73 1/2 Varnish is NOT subtracted 093 Regardsdanny --MS_Mac_OE_3032713431_48097_MIME_Part-- from bob@downandacross.com Sat Feb 5 13:33:24 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: sherline lathe help I have a Sherline 4400 lathe. Anyone ever have trouble removing the tailstock center bit from the spindle? I cannot remove it to mount the drill chuck into the spindle.Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from martinjensen@home.com Sat Feb 5 15:40:16 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:40:11 -0800 Subject: RE: Varnish Heating I dip my rods (no pun intended but it does sound that way (G)) and I used toheat up the varnish (polyurethane P&L Varmor R10) to about 90 degrees.WhenI did this with the heated varnish I found that I was getting wrinkles inthe second or third coat occasionally, requiring me to strip the rod downand start all over. I am thinking that the warmth of the varnish softenedupthe under layer too much. I talked to my varnish supplier about this andthey agreed. If I use the same time table with 70 degree varnish I have noproblems. If you want to heat the varnish to 90 degrees (which would result in athinner coat and I actually like the result when it worked), I wouldsuggestthat you wait for the previous coat to completely dry for at least a coupleof days maybe three and then rough up the surface with 0000 steel woolfollowed by a good wipe down with a tack cloth. I now only heat thevarnishto 70 degrees plus and no more, and dip every day and have had noproblemssince. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Varnish Heating from past experiences, it seems pretty clear that heating the varnish toatleast 90* F., will produce not only better penetration, but a nicer finish,with less chance of runs. When applying epoxies, heating the surface to bepainted, or glues results in better penetration of the glue, and a smootherapplication of the enamel. It seems a worthwhile test to see how hot the varnish can be, and stillworkwell. When applying heat to decrease the set up time of epoxy, too muchheatwill cause unwanted bubbling. Getting the temperature just below thispoint,would seem to be ideal. Has anyone here done anything like this ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Varnish Heating I varnish in my attic where my workshop is located. It is usually about72+ degrees up there, so I don't use a heater, but I have a heating cordmade for starting seedlings that some good nurseries carry. They comein different lengths, mine is about 8 ft long total. It gets up toabout 70* and is waterproof of course. You can soon use it to starttomatoes with after you varnish your rod :) Rick Randy Brewer wrote: I would appreciate suggestions on what you folks do to warm thevarnishonthose cold winter nights. Forgive me if this was covered recently. varnish[2-3 teaspoons] in a paper cup? If so, how much time should I try?Whatdidyou tell your wife when you did this? I use an aluminum dip tube and have CAREFULLY heated it with a heatgunonlow. I don't feel comfortable doing this, as I have a fear of immolatingeverything near the varnish, including me. Is this a recipe fordisaster? Iloosen the cap on the top of the tube to account for expansion and don'tputthe gun near the opening. I'm not sure how flammable Varathane is and Idon't want to find out the hard way. I tried the previously mentioned cold water pipe heater, but I got theHomeDepot version that had a thermostat also, and we know that didn'twork.Asource for one that didn't have a thermostat would be helpful if anyoneknows of one. Thanks, and stay warm! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from vkings@juno.com Sat Feb 5 16:34:34 2000 17:32:30 EST Subject: Re: Herter's rod I.E. Herters Rod;Hi,Herters was a large supplier of sporting equipment.back in theearly years.Believe they went out of bussiness sometime in the earlyseventies.I remember buyingfew rodblanks from them around that time,Istill have a 6'out in the garage.They also sold culms and planingplates.Had several good books on fly tying & rod building.Wish I stillhad them.As to the value of the rod I can not say. R.L. from cadams46@juno.com Sat Feb 5 18:37:11 2000 19:36:25 EST Subject: 8' rod Hey Guys,Was talking to a gentlemen the other day who was interested inpuchaseing a bamboo blank from me. He is after an 8', 5/6 wt. and saysthat he likes the sage graphite rods with a fast action. Any one haveany favorite tapers in this range? And any suggestions as to how to geta fast action or is it even possible with bamboo. Thanks for the help.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Feb 5 19:30:23 2000 Subject: Thanks Just wanted to thank everyone who helped me with my problem getting incontact with Ron Barch--I finally succeeded--oh horrors-- by phone! (G) Mike from bob@downandacross.com Sat Feb 5 19:41:32 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Sherline Lathe I am unstuck! thanks guys.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Feb 5 21:03:54 2000 Sat, 5 Feb 2000 23:03:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Varnish Heating Has anyone tried the Minwax spar urethane? If so what were your resultslike? Shawn Randy Brewer wrote: I would appreciate suggestions on what you folks do to warm the varnishonthose cold winter nights. Forgive me if this was covered recently. varnish[2-3 teaspoons] in a paper cup? If so, how much time should I try? Whatdidyou tell your wife when you did this? I use an aluminum dip tube and have CAREFULLY heated it with a heat gunonlow. I don't feel comfortable doing this, as I have a fear of immolatingeverything near the varnish, including me. Is this a recipe for disaster? Iloosen the cap on the top of the tube to account for expansion and don'tputthe gun near the opening. I'm not sure how flammable Varathane is and Idon't want to find out the hard way. I tried the previously mentioned cold water pipe heater, but I got theHomeDepot version that had a thermostat also, and we know that didn't work.Asource for one that didn't have a thermostat would be helpful if anyoneknows of one. Thanks, and stay warm! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from FlyfishT@aol.com Sat Feb 5 21:07:14 2000 Subject: 8ft. HI I know that the payne 101 is a fast taper wiggled one at a fishing show. I saw it in the taper archives.later,Tom n. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Feb 5 21:59:00 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 5 Feb 2000 21:59:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Heating I've used it to coat over enameled metal, and it gets very brittle quickly.It is impervious to most strong alcohols, etc.. I don't like its brittlenessthough. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Varnish Heating Has anyone tried the Minwax spar urethane? If so what were your resultslike? Shawn Randy Brewer wrote: I would appreciate suggestions on what you folks do to warm thevarnishonthose cold winter nights. Forgive me if this was covered recently. varnish[2-3 teaspoons] in a paper cup? If so, how much time should I try?Whatdidyou tell your wife when you did this? I use an aluminum dip tube and have CAREFULLY heated it with a heatgunonlow. I don't feel comfortable doing this, as I have a fear of immolatingeverything near the varnish, including me. Is this a recipe fordisaster? Iloosen the cap on the top of the tube to account for expansion and don'tputthe gun near the opening. I'm not sure how flammable Varathane is and Idon't want to find out the hard way. I tried the previously mentioned cold water pipe heater, but I got theHomeDepot version that had a thermostat also, and we know that didn'twork.Asource for one that didn't have a thermostat would be helpful if anyoneknows of one. Thanks, and stay warm! Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Feb 5 23:19:25 2000 Sat, 5 Feb 2000 21:19:16 -0800 Subject: Re: 8ft. Yes, it is --- but the Payne 101 is 7'6". Still, it's becoming one of myfavorties. Harry Boyd FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: HII know that the payne 101 is a fast taper wiggled one at a fishingshow. I saw it in the taper archives.later,Tom n. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Feb 6 02:03:24 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 6 Feb 2000 02:00:44 -0600 Subject: Old Rod question... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF7045.EDC18400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF7045.EDC18400 First... Ray, thanks for your help on this rod! Know a lot more now =than I did...OK, English rodmakers... I have an old Folsom Rod that is stamped on the =reel seat "R Turner Maker, Studsley" and "Made in England" Spiked =ferrules, all brass hardware, not plated... can anyone tell me more =about this rod? Thanks in Advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF7045.EDC18400 now than I did...OK, English rodmakers... I have an old Folsom Rod that is stamped = anyone tell me more about this rod? Thanks in Advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF7045.EDC18400-- from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Sun Feb 6 05:55:17 2000 Subject: Help! and sincerest apologies for the Bandwidth boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7099.3A2B80E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7099.3A2B80E0 Please accept my sincerest apologies for this message but I do not know =where else to go for some help on this - especially on a Sunday!It has developed some problems that are beyond my abilities.1) His toolbar has disappeared and when you try to right click on the =menu area to get the cusotmise option nothing happens so I have no way =of getting it back2) His printer is continuously leaving off the last few lines of his =work. I have deleted and reinstalled the printer, checked the page =setup, margins etc etc and no joy.If there is anyone who can and doesn't mind helping me can they please = Apologies for the non rodmaking subject for which I expect to be duly =admonished but I don't what else to do. Tim ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7099.3A2B80E0 Please accept my sincerest apologies= message but I do not know where else to go for some help on this - = a Sunday!It has developed some problems thatare = abilities.1) His toolbar has disappeared andwhen = right click on the menu area to get the cusotmise option nothing happens = have no way of getting it back2) His printer is continuously leaving = the page setup, margins etc etc and no joy.If there is anyone who can and doesn't= me can they please contact me offline on watson@cape- Apologies for the non rodmakingsubject = expect to be duly admonished but I don't what else to do.Many many thanks Tim ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7099.3A2B80E0-- from FlyfishT@aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:31:44 2000 Subject: varnish heating Shawn,I use the minwax urethane ,i like it and it dries quick. regards,Tom from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Feb 6 09:57:11 2000 Subject: Re: Varnish Heating Shawn,I use Minwax and get very good results, but it is very hard to polish so you must be very careful not to get dust. from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Feb 6 10:03:25 2000 Subject: Re: varnish heating I have never had a problem with it becoming brittle, in fact I have a paper cup that was coated with it three months ago that still remains very flexable,if you were to bend bamboo that far it would snap like a twig! from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 6 10:29:42 2000 with ESMTP id Subject: Re: Hollow rods - Thanks Thanks to all who responded. Dennis Dennis Haftel wrote: All, I'm almost ready to start my latest project rod. I want to make aHolbrook 9 wt rod, but I want to make it hollow. At the PA Rodmakers'Gathering, Tom Smithwick had a really nice rod that was hollow builtaccording to the "Powell method", though I'm not familiar with it. Ialso know Per Brandin does a fine hollow rod that's feather light. Somy question is how should I go about tackling the Holbrook Mod. 310, 81/2 ft 9 wt.? I'd like to use it as a bass/pike rod for fishing inCanada this summer. Any input would be most welcome. TIA, Dennis from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Feb 6 13:03:58 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Green culm Excuse this dumb question, but if I order cane from Charles H. Demarest,Inc. will it be green and require drying or is it already dried and ready Ernie Harrison from martinjensen@home.com Sun Feb 6 14:07:08 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sun, 6 Feb 2000 12:06:55 -0800 Subject: RE: Green culm The last time I ordered cane from Demarest it was fairly dry. It appearedthat you could probably build a rod from it but I did let it sit as I had astockpile of it anyway and it did turn more yellow or straw colored. Atonetime I did build a rod from the stuff as soon as I got it and the rod seemsjust fine now maybe 5 years later. I mean a couple of culms were moregreenshade than the rest but overall it was pretty good as regards color. I haveread that you must let the stuff sit for 5 years or so. I don't know that Icompletely believe that. Why don't you write Demarest and ask him?http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Green culm Excuse this dumb question, but if I order cane from Charles H. Demarest,Inc. will it be green and require drying or is it already dried and ready Ernie Harrison from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Feb 6 17:00:08 2000 (MET) Subject: Block plans for "small" hands Just some thoughts about block plans.......... I started building rods last winter, so I'm still a newbie (right terms?)I've been using both 9 1/2 and 601/2 from Stanley, more correct I used the60 1/2because it fits my "small" hands better.After grinding/honing the blade at 35/30* it worked ok for me. Last week I received 2 Record plans (9 1/2&060 1/2), and after a lot ofelbow grease (muchmore than the Stanley's) They was ready for the test to night. 91/2...... They are slightly shorter, but same width, both of them, compared toStanley's. They are abit tricky to fasten/adjust the blade, and the low angel misses the sideadjuster for the blade.But it will get easier after use, I'm sure. danny from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Feb 6 18:04:51 2000 Sun, 6 Feb 2000 20:04:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Block plans for "small" hands Danny,I have both a 9 1/2 and a 60 1/2A both Stanley's. I have med/largehands and I like the way the 60 1/2A feels in my palm more too. I don'tfindthat it cuts quite as clean as the 9 1/2 though,( it could be my angle is offon the blade), maybe some tweaking is in order?Shawn Danny Twang wrote: Just some thoughts about block plans.......... I started building rods last winter, so I'm still a newbie (right terms?)I've been using both 9 1/2 and 601/2 from Stanley, more correct I usedthe60 1/2because it fits my "small" hands better.After grinding/honing the blade at 35/30* it worked ok for me. Last week I received 2 Record plans (9 1/2&060 1/2), and after a lot ofelbow grease (muchmore than the Stanley's) They was ready for the test to night. 91/2...... They are slightly shorter, but same width, both of them, compared toStanley's. They are abit tricky to fasten/adjust the blade, and the low angel misses the sideadjuster for the blade.But it will get easier after use, I'm sure. danny from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Feb 6 18:07:21 2000 Sun, 6 Feb 2000 20:06:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Hollow rods Here's a question, what was the smallest wt rod to be built hollow builtand who made it?Shawn Dennis Haftel wrote: All, I'm almost ready to start my latest project rod. I want to make aHolbrook 9 wt rod, but I want to make it hollow. At the PA Rodmakers'Gathering, Tom Smithwick had a really nice rod that was hollow builtaccording to the "Powell method", though I'm not familiar with it. Ialso know Per Brandin does a fine hollow rod that's feather light. Somy question is how should I go about tackling the Holbrook Mod. 310, 81/2 ft 9 wt.? I'd like to use it as a bass/pike rod for fishing inCanada this summer. Any input would be most welcome. TIA, Dennis from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Feb 6 18:12:42 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: One culm Do any of the people who sell Tonkin can just sell one culm?Ernie from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 6 18:56:42 2000 Subject: This is for the guys interested in Ray Bergmans collection. Sorry for taking up space on the list for this, but I've had so manyof the guys asking about this stuff. Gus is very old and is taking his time getting everything together for me. Lists, photos, etc. As hesays "Rome wasn't built in a day," so, as soon as he brings me hislist & photos, I will send a copy to all the guys that e-mailed me about it. I guess when I get that old, I may move very slow, too. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 6 19:05:07 2000 with ESMTP id ;Mon, 7 Feb 2000 01:04:27 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Hollow rods The old Hardy Palakona "Phantoms" were supposed to be hollowbuilt andtheymade a 6'10" 5 wt. I'm not sure if Winston "Leetle Fellers" werehollowbuiltor not. Shawn Pineo wrote: Here's a question, what was the smallest wt rod to be built hollowbuiltand who made it?Shawn --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from Davidhray1@aol.com Sun Feb 6 20:08:01 2000 Subject: Bamboo ferrules After the PA Gathering and seeing Tom Smithwick's electrical tape ferruleI started to think about building a totally bamboo ferrule. After speaking to Stan Smartt who was with me I decided to give it a try. I built a 7' 6" perfectionist in a two strip quad. I thought it would be easier to do in a quad. I made the end tapered at about a 21:1 ratio. Next I built a hollow piece to go around the rod. I then tapered the ends. The butt end of the rod was then glued into the ferrule. The ferrule was wrapped on each end andthe middle to give more support. The ferrule itself measures about 4.25inches a little more than enough to cover the tapered ends. Being on a slant theends go in and the fitting is very tight. To match the rod I built a square bamboo reel seat to match the square rod. To hold the reel on I made square bamboo rings. The bamboo was splitcut at 90 degrees and glued. Then the square rings were wrapped to make them stronger. I also used a bamboo winding check.I fished the rod last week and it was a joy. It was a full flex to the handle. The bamboo ferrule held tight and according to Richard Tyree the action of the rod was like a perfectionist made with a regular ferrule. I have tried to include pictures but keep getting rejected. I would be interested in any feed back, comments or improvements. I do not have any how long it will hold up or if a different taper on the end would work better. David H. Ray from cadams46@juno.com Sun Feb 6 22:15:48 2000 23:14:46 EST Subject: 8 ft Thanks Thanks to all those who sent their suggestions on the fast action taper,I appreciate it. My problem now is which to recomend to this fellow. Ithink I have it narrowed down to either the Payne 101 incresed to an 8'or the Greyrocks Mystery 8. Any suggestions on how to add 6" withoutchanging the action. ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Feb 6 22:24:24 2000 Subject: Re: 8 ft Thanks Chase,Suggestions? Sure. It's easy to lengthen the rod using FrankStetzer's online Hexrod. Follow the directions, and you won't go wrong. Ifthere's any question about what you did, just do it a second time. Here'sthe url: http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html If you lengthen the Payne 101, send me a copy of your results. Thatsounds like an interesting rod to me. Harry Boyd Chase R Adams wrote: Thanks to all those who sent their suggestions on the fast action taper,I appreciate it. My problem now is which to recomend to this fellow. Ithink I have it narrowed down to either the Payne 101 incresed to an 8'or the Greyrocks Mystery 8. Any suggestions on how to add 6" withoutchanging the action. ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 6 23:37:32 2000 with ESMTP id ;Mon, 7 Feb 2000 05:36:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Hollow rods Maybe, but I believe that "Hollolight" and "Hollokona" were originally usedbyHardy to describe the construction method rather than as a label for therod....James Hardy used rods of this construction in the late 50s when hewasbreaking records on the European casting circuit. In the 60s NormThompson inPDX carried Hardy Phantoms as did Meier and Frank...both establishmentsclaimedthat the Phantoms were of hollowbuilt(in the butts anyway) construction. Ifished an 8ft 5 wt. Phantom at the time and it subjectively anywayseemed a tadlighter than contemporary 8ft. 5 wts....including Winstons. Schwiebert in "Trout" claims that Hardy Phantoms started beingHollowbuiltsometime after WWII. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Mike,I think you'll find that Hardy's hollow built rods were called "Hollokona"and that the Phantom was a solid rod.Ray----- Original Message --- --From: Mike Leitheiser Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 5:02 PMSubject: Re: Hollow rods The old Hardy Palakona "Phantoms" were supposed to be hollowbuilt andtheymade a 6'10" 5 wt. I'm not sure if Winston "Leetle Fellers" werehollowbuiltor not. Shawn Pineo wrote: Here's a question, what was the smallest wt rod to be built hollowbuiltand who made it?Shawn --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Feb 7 01:17:18 2000 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id UAA09694; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:16:45 +1300 Subject: Re: Hollow rods That is my understanding also . I have seen a number of different Hardymodels with the "hollokona' label on them .I think they may have offered itas an option on some models. There were however specific models"Hollolitetrout" and "Hollolite salmon" , and "Hollokona Salmon delux" built between1960 and 1967. Incidently it is my understanding that Hardy used the work "palakona" as aregistered trade name to describe their cane. They held out that their"palakona" cane was better then other types of cane and thereforePalakonawas not a model but rather to signify that a particular model was made ofsuperior cane. They continued the theme with their first fibreglass rods in the mid1960'swhich were designated "glasskona" , apparently superior glass? regards Ian Kearney At 09:35 PM 6/02/00 -0800, Mike Leitheiser wrote:Maybe, but I believe that "Hollolight" and "Hollokona" were originally usedbyHardy to describe the construction method rather than as a label for therod....James Hardy used rods of this construction in the late 50s when hewasbreaking records on the European casting circuit. In the 60s NormThompson inPDX carried Hardy Phantoms as did Meier and Frank...both establishmentsclaimedthat the Phantoms were of hollowbuilt(in the butts anyway) construction. Ifished an 8ft 5 wt. Phantom at the time and it subjectively anywayseemed a tadlighter than contemporary 8ft. 5 wts....including Winstons. Schwiebert in "Trout" claims that Hardy Phantoms started beingHollowbuiltsometime after WWII. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Mike,I think you'll find that Hardy's hollow built rods were called "Hollokona"and that the Phantom was a solid rod.Ray----- Original Message --- --From: Mike Leitheiser Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 5:02 PMSubject: Re: Hollow rods The old Hardy Palakona "Phantoms" were supposed to be hollowbuiltand theymade a 6'10" 5 wt. I'm not sure if Winston "Leetle Fellers" werehollowbuiltor not. Shawn Pineo wrote: Here's a question, what was the smallest wt rod to be built hollowbuiltand who made it?Shawn --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Feb 7 02:30:23 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Hollow rods Re. Hardy Hollokona Just yesterday I had the chance of inspecting a bunch of these blanks.They are indeed hollowbuilt, but the amount of pith removed is not worthtalking about. Icannot see any significant weight saving in these blanks. Not having been allowed to saw through any one blank, I suggest thehollowbuilding ispurely planing away some of the pith all the way through the strip. I most certainly didn't localize any "dams" in these blanks. My wild guessis that theseblanks were somehow destined to be mounted with a steel core, but the the idea been weightsaving, the amount of material removed is ridicouluslittle. regards, Carsten from FlyfishT@aol.com Mon Feb 7 09:18:04 2000 Subject: one culm ernie,The only person that i know that sells one , that has it in stock right now is george maurer. Tom n. from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Mon Feb 7 10:05:39 2000 33qtc3m.dialup.mindspring.com (1.61/SMTP) for Subject: Re: One culm Ernie, I believe that Goldenwitch doesn't have a minimum order amount. Checkout: http://www.goldenwitch.com/bamboo.htm No financial interest, etc., etc. Keith -----Original Message----- Subject: One culm Do any of the people who sell Tonkin can just sell one culm?Ernie from JaguschR@aol.com Mon Feb 7 12:12:12 2000 Subject: Seatrout Taper Hello everybody I will go fishing for seatrout mid march andi am now looking for a taper for a 10' # 7/8 Seatrout rod.I would be really very happy about every posting.Thanks CURainereat..sleep..go fishing!! from jwilcox@netsync.net Mon Feb 7 15:57:00 2000 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF718C.80C334A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF718C.80C334A0 unsubscribe rodmakers James Wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF718C.80C334A0 Wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF718C.80C334A0-- from jwilcox@netsync.net Mon Feb 7 15:57:40 2000 Subject: join boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF718C.94BC6D00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF718C.94BC6D00 subscribe rodmakers James Wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF718C.94BC6D00 Wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF718C.94BC6D00-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Feb 7 16:13:37 2000 Subject: Non-rodmaking help needed boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF718C.B77017C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF718C.B77017C0 Guys,I'm in need of one of those CD things that you can use to copy CDs, and =was wondering if anyone has any suggestions. If you do, please mail me =off list, and I hope Mike doesn't mind my request too much! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF718C.B77017C0 Guys,I'm in need of one of those CD things = use to copy CDs, and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions. If you = much! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF718C.B77017C0-- from cadams46@juno.com Mon Feb 7 19:16:46 2000 20:16:14 EST Subject: 8 ft Harry and anyone else interested,Thanks for the suggestion. I took the taper that Dennis sent me andexpanded it on hexrod to an 8'. Larry Blan also did this and I thank him thebutt. I attribute that to I believe he used the one posted on the siteand I used the taper sent to me. If your interested either he or I couldsend you his results. For any one intersted this is what I came upwith:Payne 101 to an 8' 0", 5wt, Dry Fly, 2 piece, 13/64ths ferrule0 .0625 .09610 .10615 .12220 .13625 .15030 .16035 .17540 .18645 .19250 .21355 .22460 .23765 .25370 .27175 .28980 .31185 .34886 .357 Sincerely,C.R. Adams from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Feb 7 19:40:42 2000 Subject: Re: Hollow rods Hi Mike,I was most likely incorrect in my statement about Hardy's hollow builtrods.I have worked on a number of Hardy Phantom rods and found one of myrecordsthat showed one of them to be inked as a "Hollokona, The Phantom", it wasan8 1/2 ft x 2pc x 2tip x 6wt that I repaired back in 1993. The word"Hollokona" leads me to think it was hollow built. Yet when I look inGrahamTurner's book "Fishing Tackle: A Collectors Guide" I see that the HolloliteTrout Fly rods, the Hollolite Salmon Fly rods and the Hollokona SalmonDeluxe rods were all 3 pc rods made from 1960 - 1967 whereas thePhantom islisted separately as a 2 pc rod and was made between 1962 - 1972.I also have an old Hardy catalogue which describes their hollow built rodsas "Hollokona" or "Hololite" so that any Hardy that has that name inked onit is hollow built. I found it interesting too that none of the Phantom'sthat I have worked on carried a serial number neither inked on the buttsection nor stamped in the reel seat. Could it be that Hardy made thePhantom both hollow and solid? The mystery goes on.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Hollow rods Maybe, but I believe that "Hollolight" and "Hollokona" were originallyused byHardy to describe the construction method rather than as a label for therod....James Hardy used rods of this construction in the late 50s when hewasbreaking records on the European casting circuit. In the 60s NormThompson inPDX carried Hardy Phantoms as did Meier and Frank...both establishmentsclaimedthat the Phantoms were of hollowbuilt(in the butts anyway)construction.Ifished an 8ft 5 wt. Phantom at the time and it subjectively anywayseemeda tadlighter than contemporary 8ft. 5 wts....including Winstons. Schwiebert in "Trout" claims that Hardy Phantoms started beingHollowbuiltsometime after WWII. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Mike,I think you'll find that Hardy's hollow built rods were called"Hollokona"and that the Phantom was a solid rod.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Mike Leitheiser Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 5:02 PMSubject: Re: Hollow rods The old Hardy Palakona "Phantoms" were supposed to be hollowbuiltandtheymade a 6'10" 5 wt. I'm not sure if Winston "Leetle Fellers" werehollowbuiltor not. Shawn Pineo wrote: Here's a question, what was the smallest wt rod to be built hollowbuiltand who made it?Shawn --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 7 20:06:25 2000 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Para15 composite The March/April 99 TPF had a para15 composite taper fromAnderson/Zimney/Cattanach. I am looking to build a para15 as my firstrod and am wondering if this is best classed as a 5 or 6 wt? How doesit compare to the para15 with the "wet" or heavy tip? Would appreciatecomments from those who have cast or built it...thnx--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Feb 7 23:05:46 2000 Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:05:38 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Para15 composite Mike,The "correct" line weight for that rod is the subject of some debate.In my opinion, the Para 15 throws best with a 6 weight. Surely otherswillchime in here. Harry Mike Leitheiser wrote: I am looking to build a para15 as my firstrod and am wondering if this is best classed as a 5 or 6 wt?Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Mon Feb 7 23:23:52 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:21:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Para15 composite Harry, I concur... the para 15 will slam a 6 out great... a little wimpywith a five... just my opinion.Bob -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Para15 composite Mike,The "correct" line weight for that rod is the subject of some debate.In my opinion, the Para 15 throws best with a 6 weight. Surely otherswillchime in here. Harry Mike Leitheiser wrote: I am looking to build a para15 as my firstrod and am wondering if this is best classed as a 5 or 6 wt?Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from saweiss@flash.net Mon Feb 7 23:32:55 2000 Subject: Re: Para15 composite Mike,Mine casts a 6-wt beautifully. It will pick up 50ft of line and cast it backout with a tight loop without a false cast.Steve The March/April 99 TPF had a para15 composite taper fromAnderson/Zimney/Cattanach. I am looking to build a para15 as my firstrod and am wondering if this is best classed as a 5 or 6 wt? How doesit compare to the para15 with the "wet" or heavy tip? Would appreciatecomments from those who have cast or built it...thnx--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 8 00:11:45 2000 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Para15 Composite Looks like the consensus is for a 6.....is that for BOTH tips? as theoriginal had 2 different tip tapers or is that for the composite?--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Feb 8 00:25:06 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Thsnks Thanks, to everyone that answered my questions about bamboo. You are agreat bunch of guys.Ernie from saweiss@flash.net Tue Feb 8 00:43:37 2000 Subject: A failed experiment boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF71C5.3E4887E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF71C5.3E4887E0 I tried my first hollowed section, a butt for a 2-pc 7 1/2' 4-wt. I =hollowed 4" increments with 1" dams, .07" wall thickness. Glued with =resorcinol. When I test-flexed the section, I got splits in the flats =over the hollowed segments. My hollowed sections are just flat, not =fluted.Anyone have similar experience? Any comments? I realize that this =may be a fairly small rod to try this on, but I am trying to make a rod =based on a hollow-built Winston taper.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF71C5.3E4887E0 first = dams, .07" wall thickness. Glued with resorcinol. When I test-flexed the = section, I got splits in the flats over the hollowed segments. My = sections are just flat, not fluted. experience? Any comments? I realize that this may be a fairly small rod = taper.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF71C5.3E4887E0-- from Davidhray1@aol.com Tue Feb 8 07:21:44 2000 Subject: Re: Para15 composite I am using a 5 wt line on my Para 15 and it is a little too small I agree with Harry it would work best with a 6 weight line. David H. Ray from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Feb 8 07:33:38 2000 Tue, 8 Feb 2000 21:33:09 +0800 Subject: Re: Para15 composite Personaly I like it best with a WF #5. Sorry..... Tony At 08:21 AM 2/8/00 -0500, Davidhray1@aol.com wrote:I am using a 5 wt line on my Para 15 and it is a little too small I agree with Harry it would work best with a 6 weight line. David H. Ray /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from Davidhray1@aol.com Tue Feb 8 07:52:55 2000 Subject: Re: A failed experiment I built a Garrison 221 but hollowed the entire handle, I thought the handle would give it enough support but I was wrong. I felt a crack whenbass fishing and a few months later I I caught a 4 lb catfish on it that hit like a bass. I felt the handle almost bend into. I took the handle and reel seat off and re glued, I use nyatex. This time I wrapped the handle reel seatarea with a nylon thread and glued it on the out side. I then put signature wraps on the entire rod. I think the signature wraps will give the rod additional strength, so far so good. I think I like Richard Tyree's way better. He flattens the entire rod to .05 tip and .07 butt and glues a hard foam on it and then planes it downthis gives a light weight solid rod. You could also use balsa or another light weight wood. David H. Ray from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Feb 8 08:00:26 2000 don") Tue, 8 Feb 2000 06:59:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Para15 composite Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 06:49:33 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Para15 composite Mike, It's too much of a rod for a 5 wt. I use a 6 as do others that I've builtrods for. I can and have cast 90 feet of DT6 on it. I would expect that110>140 would be the maximum cast of a 5 wt. but would need 40 feet oflineout of the guides to bend it. It's a workhorse not a technical casting rod.Would work great for fishing from a boat [ as I do with it ] or castingnymphs or streamers but don't try to hit a 2" seam 30 feet away 12" infront of a spooky brown - just the wrong type of taper for that type offishing. Don At 06:04 PM 2/7/00 -0800, you wrote: The March/April 99 TPF had a para15 composite taper fromAnderson/Zimney/Cattanach. I am looking to build a para15 as my firstrod and am wondering if this is best classed as a 5 or 6 wt? How doesit compare to the para15 with the "wet" or heavy tip? Would appreciatecomments from those who have cast or built it...thnx--Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from par444@webtv.net Tue Feb 8 08:15:54 2000 162.iap.bryant.webtv.net ESMTP id 3C55A13CC 162.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA17614; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 06:15:52 - ETAtAhR11lbM/hk8F2H2jgi7+XHc1y+7RQIVAMFqcnAIhOgTAN1+Kck0MUDcIgB8 Subject: mait: were is the mail from lblove@cableone.net Tue Feb 8 09:39:18 2000 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:39:12 -0700 Subject: wood real seat fillers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7218.0AA17C00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7218.0AA17C00 Hey guys,would teak be a good wood to make my first couple of fillers with? =I happened upon some at a friend's shop.He was hesitant with parting with some bird's eye maple and suggested = TIABrad ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7218.0AA17C00 Hey guys, make = He was hesitant with parting with some bird's eye = TIABrad ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7218.0AA17C00-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Feb 8 09:55:23 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: wood real seat fillers Of course it's a matter of taste, but I've used teak inserts on some rodsand I really like it. These had a rubbed oil finish that went very well withthe bamboo and the nickel silver cap/ring. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: wood real seat fillers Hey guys,would teak be a good wood to make my first couple of fillers with? Ihappened upon some at a friend's shop.He was hesitant with parting with some bird's eye maple and suggestedteakinstead. TIABrad from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Feb 8 09:56:58 2000 Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:56:44 +0800 Subject: Re: wood real seat fillers types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_31772580==_.ALT" --=====================_31772580==_.ALT Teak is a bit boring to look at but if you use it you might try washing anypart of it that will be glued with petrol or thiners before applying the glueor it may not stick properly. Tony At 09:36 AM 2/8/00 -0600, Bradley Love wrote: Hey guys,would teak be a good wood to make my first couple of fillers with? Ihappened upon some at a friend's shop.He was hesitant with parting with some bird's eye maple and suggestedteakinstead. TIABrad /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_31772580==_.ALT Teak is a bit boring to look at but if you use it you might try washingany part of it that will be glued with petrol or thiners before applyingthe glue or it may not stick properly. Tony At 09:36 AM 2/8/00 -0600, Bradley Love wrote: Hey guys, shop.He was hesitant with parting with some bird's eye maple and TIABrad /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_31772580==_.ALT-- from stuart.tod@virgin.net Tue Feb 8 10:07:36 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:06:48 +0000 Subject: Re: A failed experiment If you glue hollow-built sections with PU (gorilla or eqivalent) you end upwith a lightweight, strong, foam-filled section........ Stuart----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: A failed experiment I built a Garrison 221 but hollowed the entire handle, I thought thehandle would give it enough support but I was wrong. I felt a crack whenbassfishing and a few months later I I caught a 4 lb catfish on it that hit likea bass. I felt the handle almost bend into. I took the handle and reel seatoff and re glued, I use nyatex. This time I wrapped the handle reel seatareawith a nylon thread and glued it on the out side. I then put signature wrapson the entire rod. I think the signature wraps will give the rod additionalstrength, so far so good.I think I like Richard Tyree's way better. He flattens the entire rod to.05 tip and .07 butt and glues a hard foam on it and then planes it downthisgives a light weight solid rod. You could also use balsa or another lightweight wood. David H. Ray from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Feb 8 13:09:31 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: What taper would you use? If you were going to make a two piece 7 foot 6 inch, 4 weight rod to fish Ernie Harrison from mep@mint.net Tue Feb 8 13:48:11 2000 Subject: hollow rods When I first started making rods several years ago I visited an oldyankee rod maker named Cecil Pierce. He was kind enought to critique mywork and give me some tips. He showed me several glued up sections of ahollow rod lined with a graphite tape fiber. He used to make and sellthese. Cecil is now gone. I ran into a man who owned one of these hollowbamboo graphite rods. It was incredibly light and fast. I don't knowexactly how he made these but he told me he wrote an article for the"Planing Form" describing the process. After handling this rod If I wereto attempt a hollow rod I think I would do it the way Cecil did. Mike Palumbo from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Feb 8 14:33:11 2000 Subject: Converting a 2 piece into a 4 piece My apologies to the person who emailed me asking about howto convert a 2 piece rod into a 4 piece rod. I accidentally deletedyour message before I answered it. Hopefully whoever it was willget this via the list. If I remember your questions correctly.... No, I wouldn't take just any 2 piece and convert it to a 4 piece. Fastrods will lend themselves to the conversion where slow or parabolicrods won't. If you think about what you are doing and what will beaffected, putting a ferrule close to the handle on a fast rod will notaffect much if anything at all. Might make it a bit faster due to thestiffening effect of the ferrule, where the extra weight, since it is closeto the handle won't affect action much. The other ferrule for the tipsection will be small and won't weigh a whole heck of a lot, probablyequivalent to a couple feet of flyline. Use a truncated ferrule for the tipand a full length for the handle. Look at the Sir D taper: it has a jump thicker at 20 inches from the tip, and the ferrule is going to go around 21.5 inches from the tip. Just about a perfect place to put the ferrule. Be careful with section lengths - don't just cut them into 4 equal lengths.the sections getting the female ferrule will end up being longer if you do,due to the overlap engagement area of the ferrules. Cattanach's bookand the Garrison book outlines the way you have to calculate the sectionlengths with the ferrules you have. Put a turn of masking tape where you cut if you use a hack saw. That willhelp you from splintering the rod, although that part of the rod will be insidethe ferrule so it's not super critical if it does happen. You might have to move a couple or three guides if you are unlucky,varnishingbefore wrapping the guides would have helped in this case. On my Sir D taper the action wasn't affected much, my perceiveddifferencein the casting was probably because I expected it to change. It still castswonderfully, and I doubt someone not used to the way it casted as a 2piececould tell that it used to be a 2 piece. Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Feb 8 14:48:23 2000 Subject: Re: hollow rods When I first started making rods several years ago I visited an oldyankee rod maker named Cecil Pierce. He was kind enought to critiquemywork and give me some tips. He showed me several glued up sections ofahollow rod lined with a graphite tape fiber. He used to make and sellthese. Cecil is now gone. I ran into a man who owned one of these hollowbamboo graphite rods. It was incredibly light and fast. I don't knowexactly how he made these but he told me he wrote an article for the"Planing Form" describing the process. After handling this rod If I wereto attempt a hollow rod I think I would do it the way Cecil did. Or you could make a hollow rod and glue a graphite blank tip section insidethe bamboo rod. Then you could make the bamboo thinner and thinner untilthe action is essentially due to the core. Then you have - The action of a graphite rod.... I'm all for experimentation, but why are we striving for an action like a graphiterod? I happen to like the way a cane rod casts, and prefer it over the feel of agraphite rod. In my mind lighter and faster doesn't equate to better. Don't get me wrong, I experimented with hollow rods a couple years ago. Itdidn't do much for me, and I decided to go back to solid. Darryl from cadams46@juno.com Tue Feb 8 16:04:35 2000 17:02:57 EST Subject: 8 ft This here is the taper that Larry Blan came up with and sent me. Hisnotes are : Payne 101 7'6" 5wt. Posted by Denis Higham on July 13, 1998 Varnish of .005 subtracted, butt swell not included. See originalposting for guide spacing and other details. Would be great for agraphite rod user. Streched to an 8' using hexrod.8'0", 7'2" action lenght, 5wt, 2 piece, standard ferrule 13/64ths1" .0645" .09110" .10215" .11620" .13125" .14530" .15635" .16840" .18145" .19150" .21855" .23260" .24665" .26270" .28175" .29980" .32385" .34786" .352 Can't tell you which taper is the better of the 2 but I'll build the oneI came up with and probally try this one some day. I guess its up toyou which one you'd rather, Thanks to Larry for sending it to me.Sicerely,C.R. Adams from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Feb 8 19:39:17 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A6AD27100D0; Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:45:17 -0500 Subject: Re: What taper would you use? Ernie,Dennis Higham has the sweetest F.E. Thomas 7'6" 4wt. Its listed underGrayrock 96 on the Rodmaker Taper pages.Best regards,Reed Ernie Harrison wrote: If you were going to make a two piece 7 foot 6 inch, 4 weight rod to fish Ernie Harrison from listreader@codemarine.com Tue Feb 8 20:17:25 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Demarest "Blueline" Cane? I've been happy with the quality of the Demarest cane I have. I've recentlyheard thatthey are now offering middle-cut "blueline" cane that offers great colorand longinternodes with the downside of fewer power fibers and "a few leaf budsat the tip." Since I'm not currently building nodeless rods, the idea of leaf buds is notappealing tome. However, the lower cost, color uniformity, and better straightness areall qualitiesthat appeal to me in the middle cut cane. Can anyone who's tried the "blueline" cane comment on it? Are thereenough buds that itwould prevent me from using it without going nodeless? Would this canebe appropriate for7-8.5 foot "noded" rods? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Tue Feb 8 20:41:16 2000 2000 18:40:58 PST Subject: Whitehead Beveler for sale I have a Whitehead Beveler in excellant condition forsale, with extra cutters and a dust collector. Thebeveler will rough out 60* strips from raw canestrips. Contact me off-list if interested. Jeff Ramsey__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Tue Feb 8 20:42:39 2000 2000 18:42:35 PST Subject: Sherline lathe for sale I have a Sherline lathe, brand new (never used), forsale, with extra accessories. The lathe will fitferrules, reel seats, turn cork grips and even allowyou to make your own ferrules/reel seats etc. Contactme off-list if interested. Jeff Ramsey__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from channer1@rmi.net Tue Feb 8 20:46:06 2000 Subject: Re: What taper would you use? At 08:12 AM 02/08/2000 -0800, Ernie Harrison wrote:If you were going to make a two piece 7 foot 6 inch, 4 weight rod to fish Ernie Harrison Paul Young PerfectionistJohn from caneman@clnk.com Tue Feb 8 21:53:07 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 21:50:24 -0600 Subject: Re: What taper would you use? my own...Bob (sorry, couldn't resist! *S*)-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: What taper would you use? At 08:12 AM 02/08/2000 -0800, Ernie Harrison wrote:If you were going to make a two piece 7 foot 6 inch, 4 weight rod to fish Ernie Harrison Paul Young PerfectionistJohn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 8 22:28:37 2000 Tue, 8 Feb 2000 20:28:25 -0800 Subject: Re: Demarest "Blueline" Cane? Steve,I've used the new line of Demarest cane, and I doubt you will find anyfault withit. I was sent 3 culms, and found one to be nearly perfect, oneindistinguishable fromprevious Demarest orders, and one culm a little light. I still managed toget30 tip strips off of the tip section of the lightest culm, while splittingaround oneleaf node.If you're at all concerned, just order the regular stuff. I can't see anyreason atall to try to save money in purchasing cane your might have doubts about. After all, ifyou only get one rod per culm, the cost of the cane is still minimal in anybamboo rod. Wayne Cattanach is fond of saying that he spends more perrod on sandpaperthan on cane. --- I KNOW I spend more on ferrules or reel seats or guidesor cork thanI do on cane.Hope this helps,Harry BoydSteve Zimmerman wrote: I've been happy with the quality of the Demarest cane I have. I'verecently heard thatthey are now offering middle-cut "blueline" cane that offers great colorand longinternodes with the downside of fewer power fibers and "a few leaf budsat the tip." Since I'm not currently building nodeless rods, the idea of leaf buds isnot appealingto me. However, the lower cost, color uniformity, and better straightnessare allqualities that appeal to me in the middle cut cane. Can anyone who's tried the "blueline" cane comment on it? Are thereenough buds that itwould prevent me from using it without going nodeless? Would this canebe appropriate for7-8.5 foot "noded" rods? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from can@telusplanet.net Wed Feb 9 00:37:51 2000 telusplanet.net") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with ESMTP Subject: Granger Taper Does anyone have or know the whereabouts of a Granger Special 8' 6wt.taper? I'm trying to get measurements from an existing one (longdistance) & would like to compare values.-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 07:50:03 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Para15 composite I know a lot of people on this list love the para 15. I think we need to berealistic about it though. As far as I know, Derek Brown holds a record fora cast of 186 feet, this done with a 16 ft graphite spey rod. To proposethat an 8 foot para 15 could cast 140 feet, even in the hands of a distancecaster seems impossible. Even assuming (and you really have to stretchcredibility here) that you can hold the full 100 feet of fly line in theair, how do you hold and shoot the 40 feet of backing? Don, I'll accept the 90 foot cast. I've come close to that on the one timeout of ten that I've nailed this rod's very tricky timing. But 140 ft??? I also think this isn't a rod for first time rod builders. Better to stickto a fairly fast action light rod that won't require a complete change ofcasting technique after years of casting high modulus graphite. Richard It's too much of a rod for a 5 wt. I use a 6 as do othersthat I've builtrods for. I can and have cast 90 feet of DT6 on it. I wouldexpect that110>140 would be the maximum cast of a 5 wt. but would need40 feet of lineout of the guides to bend it. It's a workhorse not atechnical casting rod.Would work great for fishing from a boat [ as I do with it ]or castingnymphs or streamers but don't try to hit a 2" seam 30 feet away 12" infront of a spooky brown - just the wrong type of taper forthat type offishing. from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Feb 9 08:14:45 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Para15 composite Being a paraholic myself (does this deminish my credability?:-)) I haveseen a very goodcaster hold a full DT4 line in the air using a PHY Perfectionist - memberof the sametaper family as the Para 15. He even succeded in shooting additional line,but no morethan some 8-10 feet. And, Richard, You are right. This IS a tricky rod to cast. Go ahead,gentlemen, and buildit, but don't expect to throw a line this far - this baby need a really goodtiming,different to that requird by other type of tapers. Repeating myself: Should I choose one, and only one rod, it would be thePara 15. Yours truly Carsten from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 9 08:25:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:15:31 -0600 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Para15 composite Once you are used to a parabolic action, you must totally change yourtimingwhen casting a fast tip rod. I've been using PHY's so long, it's the"normal" thing to do ! You must wait to feel the "tug" on the back cast !(almost anyway !) I've never heard anyone say such rods were meant for distance castinganyway! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: Para15 composite Being a paraholic myself (does this deminish my credability?:-)) I haveseen a very good caster hold a full DT4 line in the air using a PHYPerfectionist - member of the same taper family as the Para 15. He evensucceded in shooting additional line, but no more than some 8-10 feet. And, Richard, You are right. This IS a tricky rod to cast. Go ahead,gentlemen, and build it, but don't expect to throw a line this far - thisbaby need a really good timing, different to that requird by other type oftapers. Repeating myself: Should I choose one, and only one rod, it would be thePara 15.Yours truly Carsten from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 08:26:25 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Para15 composite "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" I built a para 15 (heavy tip only) based on the taper from Young's bevellerfound in the archives last winter. I was really looking forward to fishingwith this rod because I had read such glowing reviews of its abilities. Iwas disappointed. With the wet tip, throwing a tight loop seems to bepractically an impossibility. I either underpower the rod and get an openloop or overpower and get a tailing loop. I tried a DT5, WF5, and WF6without finding a good match for the rod. To give this rod a second chance,I'm considering building the dry fly tip to see if this tip improves itsability to throw a tight loop. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu JorgensenSent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:14 AM Subject: Sv: Para15 composite Being a paraholic myself (does this deminish mycredability?:-)) I have seen a very good caster hold a fullDT4 line in the air using a PHY Perfectionist - member of thesame taper family as the Para 15. He even succeded inshooting additional line, but no more than some 8-10 feet. And, Richard, You are right. This IS a tricky rod to cast. Goahead, gentlemen, and build it, but don't expect to throw aline this far - this baby need a really good timing,different to that requird by other type of tapers. Repeating myself: Should I choose one, and only one rod, itwould be the Para 15.Yours truly Carsten from caneman@clnk.com Wed Feb 9 08:57:54 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:54:57 -0600 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Para15 composite Richard, Carsten...I have to agree... this is a tricky rod, very tricky... and while I amnot a great caster (is that the correct term) I can wheel out a lot of linewith it... I have seen one man, and he can shoot line to the moon, get about20 feet of backing out of a 15, but like you said, requires perfect timingand a "feel" for parabolics. You are right that this is not a first timersrod, esp if you haven't spent a lot of time on the river with a Parabolicaction. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Sv: Para15 composite Being a paraholic myself (does this deminish my credability?:-)) I haveseena very good caster hold a full DT4 line in the air using a PHYPerfectionist - member of the same taper family as the Para 15. He evensucceded in shooting additional line, but no more than some 8-10 feet. And, Richard, You are right. This IS a tricky rod to cast. Go ahead,gentlemen, and build it, but don't expect to throw a line this far - thisbaby need a really good timing, different to that requird by other type oftapers. Repeating myself: Should I choose one, and only one rod, it would be thePara 15.Yours truly Carsten from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Feb 9 09:05:36 2000 Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:05:19 -0500 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Para15 composite Interesting point. I came to fly fishing relatively late in life, and foundit a huge adjustment from chucking mepps spinners a couple of hundredfeetwhenever I'd a mind to, to learning to coax a fly 60 or 70 feet with my 81/2 foot graphite 6- weight on a really good day when there wasn't anywind.Then I learned that distance is not really as important as I'd thought itwas. Then I made my first bamboo rod, a Sir D - after the leap from aspinner to a fly caster, it wasn't really all that big a step from graphite,in terms of technique. One of the things I really like about my Sir D ishow much slower and more sensitive it feels than my old St. Croix; I lovewaiting for and feeling it load. But compared to the jump from spinning toflycasting, the change from graphite to bamboo was not that big a deal. NowI'm building a "Force", which after all is a modified para 15, in theexpectation of continuing that same evolution towards a slower, moresensitive casting instrument. But I think "complete change of castingtechnique" from graphite is overstating it quite a bit. I think of it byanalogy to breathing. A graphite fly rod is like hyperventilating; a parais like taking long deep breaths; spincasting is like being on an iron lung. -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel [SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca]Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 8:46 AM Subject: Para15 composite I know a lot of people on this list love the para 15. I also think this isn't a rod for first time rod builders. Better to stickto a fairly fast action light rod that won't require a complete change ofcasting technique after years of casting high modulus graphite. Richard from briansr@point-net.com Wed Feb 9 09:25:14 2000 be forged)) Subject: Re:Para15 Composite RichardI'll take that rod off your hands if you are not happy with it :>)IMHO you can fish for weeks with a cane rod ,then pick up a FAST rod likean RPL+ or worse an IMX and you'll wonder for the first casts WTF??ISHAPPENING HERE??? Faster rods have to be "felt loading up" before youpunchfwd.Exactly the opposite thing with a Spey rod.Ya gotta practice awhile,andeven after years under your belt ,mentally tell yourself when making thefirst casts SSLLOOOOWWWWW DDDOOOWWWNNNNN !!!!!!Cheers Brian from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Feb 9 09:25:22 2000 Subject: RE: Para15 composite I'm thinking of building a para15 or something similar, but before sinkingtime into it I'd like to ask a question of you para-noids on the list. I'm relatively new to bamboo but I have a couple of rods having a typicalGranger/Phillipson taper. I just love these rods. They're very different from any graphite rod, but that's why I like bamboo. When I readdescriptions of what it's like to cast a para, it sounds to me very muchlike the feel of these rods. Is there anyone with experience casting bothkinds of rod who can compare their feel? I assume theseGranger/Phillipsontapers are not parabolic -- they certainly look different on the tapergraphs. Thanks in advance, this is a wonderful list and in spite of occasionalcomplaints I find the wheat to chaff ratio much higher than other listsI'veused. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Para15 composite I know a lot of people on this list love the para 15. I think we need to berealistic about it though. As far as I know, Derek Brown holds a record fora cast of 186 feet, this done with a 16 ft graphite spey rod. To proposethat an 8 foot para 15 could cast 140 feet, even in the hands of a distancecaster seems impossible. Even assuming (and you really have to stretchcredibility here) that you can hold the full 100 feet of fly line in theair, how do you hold and shoot the 40 feet of backing? Don, I'll accept the 90 foot cast. I've come close to that on the one timeout of ten that I've nailed this rod's very tricky timing. But 140 ft??? I also think this isn't a rod for first time rod builders. Better to stickto a fairly fast action light rod that won't require a complete change ofcasting technique after years of casting high modulus graphite. Richard It's too much of a rod for a 5 wt. I use a 6 as do othersthat I've builtrods for. I can and have cast 90 feet of DT6 on it. I wouldexpect that110>140 would be the maximum cast of a 5 wt. but would need40 feet of lineout of the guides to bend it. It's a workhorse not atechnical casting rod.Would work great for fishing from a boat [ as I do with it ]or castingnymphs or streamers but don't try to hit a 2" seam 30 feet away 12" infront of a spooky brown - just the wrong type of taper forthat type offishing. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 09:29:55 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Para15 composite "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" I'm building a "Force", which after all is a modified para 15, in theexpectation of continuing that same evolution towards a slower, moresensitive casting instrument. But I think "complete change of castingtechnique" from graphite is overstating it quite a bit. Seth, the Sir D, and a whole lot of other cane rods, casts similarly tosome graphite rods with the added advantage of sensitivity, feel,aesthetics, etc. A para 15, however, feels very different from a Sir D.Your first few casts with a para 15 are usually less-than-ideal casts.Until you get the hang of the rod's tricky timing, you need to makeadjustments to your technique that go beyond simply slowing down yourstroke. You need to learn to cast the rod. Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 9 09:41:48 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Para15 composite "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" like the feel of these rods. Is there anyone with experiencecasting bothkinds of rod who can compare their feel? I assume theseGranger/Phillipsontapers are not parabolic -- they certainly look different on the tapergraphs. I've built and fished both a para 15 and a Granger 7ft 4 wt. The Granger isa total joy. It casts itself, feels like an extension of my arm, can placea fly anywhere with pin-point accuracy. It can throw a very long cast toosince it throws a very tight loop. I love it to bits. The para on the other hand, well you know how I feel about that one. Richard from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 9 10:19:22 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA16824 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id KAA28731 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 Subject: Re: Para 15 I built Wayne's "The Force" version of the Para 15 a few years ago,with the intention of using it for the Hex hatch. It turned outto be "too much rod" for that. It will cast a long way (for me),but if I need to make a short/accurate/delicate cast it just tellsme where to go. Not a friendly rod. Mine behaves better as a 7 weight.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Feb 9 10:34:07 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Demarest "Blueline" Cane? I bought a bale of each last year and all the cane is beautiful stuff. Beinga natural product, expect wide variance in the weight and thickness of thecane. Some of the "Middle Cut" cane looked like it was the "Butt Cut" andvice versa. You won't go wrong with either cane and you'll save a fewbuckson the Middle Cut... Probably more important to get the 2-2.5" diameter... Eileen Demarest subscribes to this list, she keeps a very low profile but ifyou can ask her any questions and I think you'll find her a delight to workwith... She's the PC "Geek" in the family... That's a compliment Eileen!8>) Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Demarest "Blueline" Cane? Steve,I've used the new line of Demarest cane, and I doubt you will findany fault with it. I was sent 3 culms, and found one to be nearly perfect,one indistinguishable from previous Demarest orders, and one culm a littlelight. I still managed to get30 tip strips off of the tip section of the lightest culm, while splittingaround one leaf node.If you're at all concerned, just order the regular stuff. I can't seeany reason at all to try to save money in purchasing cane your might havedoubts about. After all, if you only get one rod per culm, the cost of thecane is still minimal in anybamboo rod. Wayne Cattanach is fond of saying that he spends more perrodon sandpaper than on cane. --- I KNOW I spend more on ferrules or reelseats or guides or cork than I do on cane.Hope this helps,Harry BoydSteve Zimmerman wrote: I've been happy with the quality of the Demarest cane I have. I'verecently heard that they are now offering middle-cut "blueline" cane thatoffers great color and long internodes with the downside of fewer powerfibers and "a few leaf buds at the tip." Since I'm not currently building nodeless rods, the idea of leaf buds isnot appealing to me. However, the lower cost, color uniformity, and betterstraightness are all qualities that appeal to me in the middle cut cane. Can anyone who's tried the "blueline" cane comment on it? Are thereenoughbuds that it would prevent me from using it without going nodeless?Wouldthis cane be appropriate for 7-8.5 foot "noded" rods? Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Feb 9 12:59:42 2000 don") Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:58:29 -0700 Subject: Para 15 Guys, I have built a number of the Para 15's and like them for what they are -They will cast a ton of weight far. Never had a problem with gettingtimingdown. Been FFing for 45 years using all kinds of rod actions. Do know thatthis one will not perform real well @ close distances unless you stick a #7 line on it. I use it in the pontoon boat for lake fishingnymphs/streamers or for throwing nymphs on flowing water. A friend usedoneof the Para 15's I built to sling 2/0 woolly buggers on the Bow River lastyear. He was impressed, as was the guide he was with, about the distancesit would do the job. If you are "regular" fishing @ normal distances and requiring reasonableaccuracy - I like the Garrison 8' 6 wt. Does a great job. As far as distance casting - what I meant is that the rod is capable ofcasting a full Corland DT6 just about through the guides before it powersout. I switched to a DT6 silk line and got another 10 feet out of the rod.If you wanted to cast further - a 5 weight would be the answer - myapologies if that meant I cast 110>140'. That wasn't what was intended. IfI was going to fish @ those distances, I would have used a head c/w monorunning line. In conclusion - the Para 15 is a great taper for what it does well. Justdon't expect dry fly required accuracy from it. I have built other Para's patterned after the 15 for lighter line weights.They also will chuck a ton of weight depending on line size. They justdon't shine for spring creek fishing over spooky browns. regards, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from RSilver000@aol.com Wed Feb 9 13:49:13 2000 Subject: guide placement I am in the process of renewing a Horrocks-Ibbotson 3 piece bamboo rod 81/2' Beaverkill. I want to fish with the rod and want to place new guides. There are currently only 6 guides and no stripping guide. What is a reasonable number of guides to place and where to put them distancewise on the rod? I am new to this folks, so any help would be appreciated. I have been told that 9 guides is a reasonable number. Thanks in advance. Rob from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Wed Feb 9 14:21:41 2000 2000 11:11:53 PST Subject: for chris & annmarie smith Chris: I can't read your email about your possible interestin the Whitehead beveler. Can you try resending it? Thanks. Jeff Ramsey __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from RSilver000@aol.com Wed Feb 9 14:49:22 2000 Subject: re:guide placement Thanks Jim for your guidance. It appears as though the rod has been refinished in the past so no prior marks are available for help in prior guide placement. I have also been told that it is a 5 wt rod, if this helps any. Thanks. Rob from amcsmith@nlis.net Wed Feb 9 14:51:23 2000 0500 Subject: groupe snake guide order hi,any other small time newbee rodmakerswant to get together and try to get thediscount at snake brand guides its $500bucks so 9 others at $ 50 or so each would do this contact me off list chris smith porter me from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 9 16:29:09 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 9 Feb 2000 16:18:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Para 15 This reads very true, as PHY loved to fish the big rivers in Wyoming andMontana. He and Don West would meet to fish the Wind River. This wasback inthe early 1950's, so I suspect this is where the Para #15 was developed. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Para 15 Guys, I have built a number of the Para 15's and like them for what they are -They will cast a ton of weight far. Never had a problem with gettingtimingdown. Been FFing for 45 years using all kinds of rod actions. Do knowthatthis one will not perform real well @ close distances unless you stick a#7 line on it. I use it in the pontoon boat for lake fishingnymphs/streamers or for throwing nymphs on flowing water. A friendusedoneof the Para 15's I built to sling 2/0 woolly buggers on the Bow River lastyear. He was impressed, as was the guide he was with, about thedistancesit would do the job. If you are "regular" fishing @ normal distances and requiring reasonableaccuracy - I like the Garrison 8' 6 wt. Does a great job. As far as distance casting - what I meant is that the rod is capable ofcasting a full Corland DT6 just about through the guides before it powersout. I switched to a DT6 silk line and got another 10 feet out of the rod.If you wanted to cast further - a 5 weight would be the answer - myapologies if that meant I cast 110>140'. That wasn't what was intended.IfI was going to fish @ those distances, I would have used a head c/wmonorunning line. In conclusion - the Para 15 is a great taper for what it does well. Justdon't expect dry fly required accuracy from it. I have built other Para's patterned after the 15 for lighter line weights.They also will chuck a ton of weight depending on line size. They justdon't shine for spring creek fishing over spooky browns. regards, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 9 21:18:56 2000 Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:18:27 +0800 Subject: RE: Para15 composite "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Funny thing about all this talk re. the need to have the feel forparabolics. It's all true but then a fellow like Mike Roberts who is a listlurker comes along and after a life of using a #8 graphite rod throwing"flys" the size of chickens for salt water fish picks up my Force and witha single back cast shoots about 40 feet of line plus the 15 he had in theair.All things considered, I was impressed especially as I expecting Mike tofind it all a bit strange considering his casting background.I think the reason Mike found it easy from the start is the fact he wasused to casting "flys" that tug like a brick on the back cast so he wasprepared for waiting for the backcast to complete before starting theforward stroke.Mike was more used to waiting for the tug than he was fixed with a"timing"so he gave it time to load and as you all know that's about all there is toit. Tony At 10:38 AM 2/9/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:like the feel of these rods. Is there anyone with experiencecasting bothkinds of rod who can compare their feel? I assume theseGranger/Phillipsontapers are not parabolic -- they certainly look different on the tapergraphs. I've built and fished both a para 15 and a Granger 7ft 4 wt. The Granger isa total joy. It casts itself, feels like an extension of my arm, can placea fly anywhere with pin-point accuracy. It can throw a very long cast toosince it throws a very tight loop. I love it to bits. The para on the other hand, well you know how I feel about that one. Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Wed Feb 9 21:19:39 2000 Subject: tapers this message i guess i'm sending to frank stetzer, or who ever is managingthe rodmakers page. i think that it is fantastic that the page exits, and that so many buildersare willing to share info and especially tapers. i know that there is quite an archive of tapers. i have been saving mymailings with new tapers that come up, but it seems that i have anextensive(and growing) folder on my desktop of tapers that people keep sharing. is there any way to archive these tapers that get shared daily on thewebsite? i think many others would enjoy have the reference to be able tobrowse in the future too. just a thought . . . from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Feb 9 21:43:56 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: What taper would you use? I downloaded this taper from the Rodmaker Taper page, given Reed's greatendorsement. To put the readings into a more standard format, I then putthedimensions back into Frank Stetzer's version of the online Hexrod programinorder to email stresses, etc. back to me. I was surprised to see a prettysignificant difference in the stress curve as shown on Rodmaker's and thestress curve that came out of Frank's interface. The Rodmaker's graphpeakshigh stresses in the tip area, where the Online Hexrod version was a moregradual increase in stress peaking near the butt, which I think suggests aslower, deeper flexing action. (which I bet is what Reed likes about it!)hmmmm!?!! I can email the Hexrod version if anyone is curious about thedifference. My suspicion is that the Stetzer version is correct and maybetheRodmaker's version was an erroroneous graph, somehow. Anyone noticedthisbefore, or got any ideas why the difference? A rose by any other name....and all that, I don't doubt the rod is sweet, justcurious which curve is more likely the correct representation of thestresses. regards to all, mac reed curry wrote: Ernie,Dennis Higham has the sweetest F.E. Thomas 7'6" 4wt. Its listed underGrayrock 96 on the Rodmaker Taper pages.Best regards,Reed Ernie Harrison wrote: If you were going to make a two piece 7 foot 6 inch, 4 weight rod tofish Ernie Harrison from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Feb 9 22:53:31 2000 Subject: Re: Para 15 out west The PHY Boat Rod taper (in the hexrod tapers) I gratefully own is just the beans for boat fishing. Ask anybody who saw my "old gal" dominate theAusable form a bi-yak at last year's grayrock. It has the mid and butt stiffness to pick up line and shooot it out-way out. Not only will it blast out line, but with enough line speed to compensate for the moving platform resulting in deadly accuracy. That day I gained TONS of respect for Paul young's ability to design rods for specific uses! I'd never call it the most sensual caster compared to other cane rods tho.A bit brutal to say the least. I've found it just the thing for casting Clousers and hairbugs for bass with a #7 bug taper by the way.I understand this rod was also known as "The Encampment " after the float trips on that river in WY. Mr. Summers informs me that they made onlyabout 20 of them while he was on with the PHY Co. Rob Hoffhines from saweiss@flash.net Wed Feb 9 23:22:33 2000 Subject: Re: Para15 composite Why shouldn't you believe it? After all, we are fishermen.Steve I know a lot of people on this list love the para 15. I think we need toberealistic about it though. As far as I know, Derek Brown holds a recordfora cast of 186 feet, this done with a 16 ft graphite spey rod. To proposethat an 8 foot para 15 could cast 140 feet, even in the hands of adistancecaster seems impossible. Even assuming (and you really have to stretchcredibility here) that you can hold the full 100 feet of fly line in theair, how do you hold and shoot the 40 feet of backing? Don, I'll accept the 90 foot cast. I've come close to that on the one timeout of ten that I've nailed this rod's very tricky timing. But 140 ft??? I also think this isn't a rod for first time rod builders. Better to stickto a fairly fast action light rod that won't require a complete change ofcasting technique after years of casting high modulus graphite. Richard It's too much of a rod for a 5 wt. I use a 6 as do othersthat I've builtrods for. I can and have cast 90 feet of DT6 on it. I wouldexpect that110>140 would be the maximum cast of a 5 wt. but would need40 feet of lineout of the guides to bend it. It's a workhorse not atechnical casting rod.Would work great for fishing from a boat [ as I do with it ]or castingnymphs or streamers but don't try to hit a 2" seam 30 feet away 12" infront of a spooky brown - just the wrong type of taper forthat type offishing. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Feb 9 23:25:30 2000 Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:25:15 -0800 Subject: Re: tapers Dr. O,Jerry Foster manages the Rodmakers Page. He's a great guy, and isdoinga thankless job just because he loves bamboo rods and rodmakers. Thanksagain,Jerry.If you search the Rodmakers archives for "taper" you'll find hundredsofdifferent rods. Most of those I store in a special email folder.Another list member started a taper notebook for me and gave it tome asa gift. I have printed out most of the tapers in the archives and now haveahardcopy as well as an electronic one.Joe Byrd, another list-member is soon to release for publicconsumptiona neat Bamboo Rodmakers Database Program. It is shareware,and Joe'scontribution to us all. I can't give you the exact release date, but expect anotice on the list in the next few weeks. As soon as I get a few hours, I'mgoing to start posting tapers into Joe's Program. If you download it, doJoethe favor of registering it with him. I hope Joe or one of the others willchime in with the website address when the time is right. (I think Joe'sout oftown right now?)One more option for you -- Wayne Cattanach's book should be out init'ssecond edition in a few months. Wayne includes his own Hexrod computerprogramwith the book. Hexrod has the ability to store your tapers, and a bunch ofother neat features as well. The program alone is worth the price of thebook. Hope this helps,Harry Boyd "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote: this message i guess i'm sending to frank stetzer, or who ever ismanagingthe rodmakers page. is there any way to archive these tapers that get shared daily on thewebsite? from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 10 07:05:28 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:05:41 -0600 "'Rodmakers \(E-mail\)'" Subject: Re: Para15 composite Spoken like a true YOUNG Tony ! (grin) I'd say you know Parabolics well !You'd probably make a good bass bugger too ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Para15 composite Funny thing about all this talk re. the need to have the feel forparabolics. It's all true but then a fellow like Mike Roberts who is alistlurker comes along and after a life of using a #8 graphite rod throwing"flys" the size of chickens for salt water fish picks up my Force andwitha single back cast shoots about 40 feet of line plus the 15 he had in theair.All things considered, I was impressed especially as I expecting Mike tofind it all a bit strange considering his casting background.I think the reason Mike found it easy from the start is the fact he wasused to casting "flys" that tug like a brick on the back cast so he wasprepared for waiting for the backcast to complete before starting theforward stroke.Mike was more used to waiting for the tug than he was fixed with a"timing"so he gave it time to load and as you all know that's about all there istoit. Tony At 10:38 AM 2/9/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:like the feel of these rods. Is there anyone with experiencecasting bothkinds of rod who can compare their feel? I assume theseGranger/Phillipsontapers are not parabolic -- they certainly look different on the tapergraphs. I've built and fished both a para 15 and a Granger 7ft 4 wt. The Grangerisa total joy. It casts itself, feels like an extension of my arm, canplacea fly anywhere with pin-point accuracy. It can throw a very long casttoosince it throws a very tight loop. I love it to bits. The para on the other hand, well you know how I feel about that one. Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from ernie2@pacbell.net Thu Feb 10 08:59:53 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Wood Planing Forms I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccurate touse?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle and onlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Feb 10 09:26:53 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA18860 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id JAA10065 for ; Thu, 10 Feb Subject: Re: tapers I guess I'm Frank Stetzer so I will answer. I tried for a while to keep a "taper section" separate from the archive search engine, with every post that contained a rod taper,but it became too messy somehow to decide what belonged and what didn't. (I know it doesn't sound messy in the abstract but it was in practice.) When someone posts a taper from a "classic" rod, like the Thomas streamer rod a few weeks ago, I will eventually add that to the taper archive I have online. But other taper-stuff will just get buried in the archive, and people will have to dig it out on their own. Myself and Jerry Foster and anyone else who keeps a website with stuff from this list, we are just volunteers here. Anyone with some computer skills who thinks they can do something useful to organize all the good stuff that comes through the list, they are more than welcome totry.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD wrote: this message i guess i'm sending to frank stetzer, or who ever ismanagingthe rodmakers page. i think that it is fantastic that the page exits, and that so many buildersare willing to share info and especially tapers. i know that there is quite an archive of tapers. i have been saving mymailings with new tapers that come up, but it seems that i have anextensive(and growing) folder on my desktop of tapers that people keep sharing. is there any way to archive these tapers that get shared daily on thewebsite? i think many others would enjoy have the reference to be abletobrowse in the future too. just a thought . . . from ernie2@pacbell.net Thu Feb 10 13:23:43 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Heat treating In Nodeless Construction Techniques by Chris Bogart he says to put thecylinders of bamboo in a 350 degree oven for 8 minutes. Is this a typo? Idon't think you could dry much in 8 minutes.Ernie Harrison from dhaftel@att.com Thu Feb 10 13:56:31 2000 OAA13153 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1sol2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Ernie, I have never made one, but I was under the impression that folks who do,make them adjustable and they are quite accurate. As for their durability,I'm not sure of that either. I guess it depends on how many rods you'replanning to make. Speaking of wood forms... I was toying with the idea of making a set ofquad forms out of maple. The only thing stopping me is the idea of gettinga ferrule onto a quad. As far as I know nobody makes ferrules for quadsandat the current price of ferrule sets, I'm not about to try to convert hexferrules to quads. I guess I could always do a scarf/tape ferrule, but theyaren't as pretty (sorry Tom). Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Wood Planing Forms I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccurate touse?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle and onlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Feb 10 14:29:09 2000 Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:24:07 -0500 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms I made an adjustable form out of hard maple. It took a couple of weekends.At my present rate of production, I think I'm about 20 years away fromputting enough nicks and scrapes on it to seriously impair its accuracy.If/when I do, the plan is to level it off with a jointer and re-cut thebevels. The adjusting screws run through barrel bolts anchored in thewood,so I'm not worried about wood threads wearing out. -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO [SMTP:dhaftel@att.com]Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:56 PM Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Ernie, I have never made one, but I was under the impression that folks who do,make them adjustable and they are quite accurate. As for theirdurability,I'm not sure of that either. I guess it depends on how many rods you'replanning to make. Speaking of wood forms... I was toying with the idea of making a set ofquad forms out of maple. The only thing stopping me is the idea ofgettinga ferrule onto a quad. As far as I know nobody makes ferrules for quadsandat the current price of ferrule sets, I'm not about to try to convert hexferrules to quads. I guess I could always do a scarf/tape ferrule, buttheyaren't as pretty (sorry Tom). Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:46 AM Subject: Wood Planing Forms I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccuratetouse?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle andonlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from dhaftel@att.com Thu Feb 10 14:43:22 2000 PAA02665; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1sol2) (5.5.2448.0) "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Seth, Do you use a push/pull system? If so, do you have anything acting as a"stop" for the push bolts on theside that gets pushed on? Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms I made an adjustable form out of hard maple. It took a couple of weekends.At my present rate of production, I think I'm about 20 years away fromputting enough nicks and scrapes on it to seriously impair its accuracy.If/when I do, the plan is to level it off with a jointer and re-cut thebevels. The adjusting screws run through barrel bolts anchored in thewood,so I'm not worried about wood threads wearing out. -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO [SMTP:dhaftel@att.com]Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:56 PM Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Ernie, I have never made one, but I was under the impression that folks who do,make them adjustable and they are quite accurate. As for theirdurability,I'm not sure of that either. I guess it depends on how many rods you'replanning to make. Speaking of wood forms... I was toying with the idea of making a set ofquad forms out of maple. The only thing stopping me is the idea ofgettinga ferrule onto a quad. As far as I know nobody makes ferrules for quadsandat the current price of ferrule sets, I'm not about to try to convert hexferrules to quads. I guess I could always do a scarf/tape ferrule, buttheyaren't as pretty (sorry Tom). Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:46 AM Subject: Wood Planing Forms I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccuratetouse?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle andonlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Feb 10 14:50:49 2000 Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:50:38 -0500 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms It's basically Tony Young's design. You can find it from the Rodmakers'page. The screws are set in recessed holes on the side of the form wherethey enter it so that their heads are flush with the surface. Then you laydown a strip of metal with access holes over that, so that they are heldlaterally in place. The barrel bolts are on the other side of the form.When you turn the screw with a key through the access hole, the barrelboltrides up or down the screw. -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO [SMTP:dhaftel@att.com]Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:43 PM Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Seth, Do you use a push/pull system? If so, do you have anything acting as a"stop" for the push bolts on theside that gets pushed on? Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:27 PM Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms I made an adjustable form out of hard maple. Ernie Harrison from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Feb 10 14:53:02 2000 ESMTP ide1AJ9oT22209 LAA22933; Subject: Re: Wood Planing Forms Ed Hartzell wrote: Ernie: I have been using the same wooden planing form for over thirtyyears.If you scrape some off it is easy to redo the groove with a sixty degreethreadgauge or a sixty degree lathe thread tool or even a three cornered file. Ifthesurface is badly out of plumb with the groove send it through a planerand startover with the groove. A lot easier than refurbishing a metal form. Youareright about the unadjustable form. You have to keep measuring andshifting thecane to get a proper taper. Ed HartzellErnie Harrison wrote: I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccurateto use?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle andonlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Feb 10 15:06:43 2000 Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:05:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Wood Planing Forms Guys, from what I've heard wood forms work just fine and the key tolongevityis using a grooved sole plane. I think Tony (Young) has a picture of one onhispage.There are plenty of sites out there that tell you how to build them.BruceConner's page is one, I can't think of the others right now, but if you wantIcan dig through my files and find them.As for your question Dennis, there is a site , I may be wrong but Ibelieve it's Bruce Conner's page , that tells how to build a quad formcheap(that's the title come to think of it!) . Ferrules, I understand are justnormal ferrules without slots cut in them. Some one correct me if I amwrong,because I too plan on trying quads if I ever get a chance!Shawn Ernie Harrison wrote: I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccurateto use?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle andonlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from drossiter@uswest.net Thu Feb 10 15:33:16 2000 Subject: Re: Wood Planing Forms I have made two rods on my maple forms and they seem to be holding upprettywell. I grooved my plane, but ended up with some nicks in the formsanyway.I'm getting better at adjusting the plane, but I still have a ways to go. However, small nicks don't seem to affect accuracy very much. Thatmakessense when you think of a plane bed that is 7" long traveling over thesurface of the form. I'm able to plane within about .002"-.003" of theintended dimension. I adjust the forms using shims cut from automotive feeler gauges, withtheforms held by C-clamps every 5". Takes about 20-30 minutes to set up theforms. David ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Ernie, I have never made one, but I was under the impression that folks who do,make them adjustable and they are quite accurate. As for theirdurability,I'm not sure of that either. I guess it depends on how many rods you'replanning to make. Speaking of wood forms... I was toying with the idea of making a set ofquad forms out of maple. The only thing stopping me is the idea ofgettinga ferrule onto a quad. As far as I know nobody makes ferrules for quadsandat the current price of ferrule sets, I'm not about to try to convert hexferrules to quads. I guess I could always do a scarf/tape ferrule, buttheyaren't as pretty (sorry Tom). Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:46 AM Subject: Wood Planing Forms I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccuratetouse?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle andonlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Feb 10 17:24:16 2000 (MET) Subject: Norwegians All Norwegians on the list. How many are we? It could be nice to know You, maybe we could gettogetheron orders fromUSA?What about a gathering? mail me of listdanny from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 10 18:03:02 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Hi gang, I just acquired a Granger Special that is in need of a new tip(s) and tryingto find the taper of this rod. It's a 7 1/2' Granger Special by W&M. I found this old message below posted in the Archives... Anyone have thisissue, would you please be so kind to post the 7' 6" Special taper on thelist for me? David? "The Planing Form number 50-Mar/Apr 1998 has four Granger tapers;8'6" Aristocrat, 8' Favorite, 7'6" Special, 7' Aristocrat. Howell'sbook has a taper for a 7' Wright McGill granger. David Kashuba" I'm probably also going to need the guide spacing and a reel seat too...It's a major fixer. At least I got the right Granger Green thread... 8^) Thanks in advance, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 10 18:06:19 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: heat gun oven Hi everyone:I am trying my first full noded rod after two decent attempts withnodeless construction. Therefore, the kitchen stove will no longer suffice.Does anyone have experience with a vertical heat gun oven? I have a 6' section of tubing (stove pipe) and I have a vent/cover for the top end. If I attach it to a beam vertically in my shop, hang the strips, and place the heat gun underneath, will the gun's temperature eventually level off in the tube? I figured I would go vertical because then I would not have to flip the strips.Does this seem like it will work? Do I need to cover up the bottom end? I just don't have a good thermometer yet to know what to expect.TIA, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 10 18:07:45 2000 Subject: Re: RE: Wood Planing Forms In a message dated 2/10/0 8:03:06 PM, dhaftel@att.com writes: Well - There is no accounting for taste. You might consider using asomewhat oversize round ferrule and gluing little strips of cane or hardwood to the ferrule seat area to pad out the spaces. It looks pretty decent that way. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Feb 10 18:21:39 2000 Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:21:04 -0400 Subject: Re: heat gun oven Bob,I used the plans from Frank Neunumen's(SPELLING???) page and founditeasy to use and very simple to build. Give it a try.Shawn bob maulucci wrote: Hi everyone:I am trying my first full noded rod after two decent attempts withnodelessconstruction. Therefore, the kitchen stove will no longer suffice.Does anyone have experience with a vertical heat gun oven? I have a 6'section of tubing (stove pipe) and I have a vent/cover for the top end. IfI attach it to a beam vertically in my shop, hang the strips, and place theheat gun underneath, will the gun's temperature eventually level off inthetube? I figured I would go vertical because then I would not have to flipthe strips.Does this seem like it will work? Do I need to cover up the bottom end? Ijust don't have a good thermometer yet to know what to expect.TIA, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from channer1@rmi.net Thu Feb 10 18:36:00 2000 Subject: Re: heat gun oven At 07:03 PM 02/10/2000 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:Hi everyone:I am trying my first full noded rod after two decent attempts withnodeless construction. Therefore, the kitchen stove will no longer suffice.Does anyone have experience with a vertical heat gun oven? I have a 6' section of tubing (stove pipe) and I have a vent/cover for the top end. If I attach it to a beam vertically in my shop, hang the strips, and place the heat gun underneath, will the gun's temperature eventually level off inthe tube? I figured I would go vertical because then I would not have to flip the strips.Does this seem like it will work? Do I need to cover up the bottom end? I just don't have a good thermometer yet to know what to expect.TIA, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com Bob;I used a heat gun oven for quite a while, but I didn't feel I was gettinggood enough results with it, so I straightened out a hot plate element andused an angle iron deflector over it to keep the cane from being directlyexposed to the heat source and it works much better and the hot plate wasonly $19.00. It straightened out to 3'9", so I cut the angle iron just alittle bit shorter than the inside length of my oven and it works justfine, no colder spots at either end or anything, and it heats up to tempmuch faster than the heat gun and is easier to adjust, I re-wired it withthe controls that came with it and after a little fiddling with it am ableto set it at a marked spot and leave it there. by the time I get thesections bound it is ready to go.John from lblove@cableone.net Thu Feb 10 18:43:19 2000 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:43:01 -0700 Subject: Re: heat gun oven Bob, Frank Neunenmann's site ishttp://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann , he also has agoodselection of tapers... Brad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: heat gun oven Bob,I used the plans from Frank Neunumen's(SPELLING???) page andfounditeasy to use and very simple to build. Give it a try. Shawn bob maulucci wrote: Hi everyone:I am trying my first full noded rod after two decent attempts withnodelessconstruction. Therefore, the kitchen stove will no longer suffice.Does anyone have experience with a vertical heat gun oven? I have a 6'section of tubing (stove pipe) and I have a vent/cover for the top end.IfI attach it to a beam vertically in my shop, hang the strips, and placetheheat gun underneath, will the gun's temperature eventually level off inthetube? I figured I would go vertical because then I would not have toflipthe strips.Does this seem like it will work? Do I need to cover up the bottom end?Ijust don't have a good thermometer yet to know what to expect.TIA, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from jbperez@mi.madritel.es Thu Feb 10 18:46:08 2000 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA3006 +0100 Subject: tapers & first rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7431.89C6F440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7431.89C6F440 hello to all:I want to you to congratulate by the good work that all people make, = I will begin to make my first rod , with much illusion and great amount =of doubts.I request advice to you, to choose the type of better tapers to begin =with this adventure.I look for action bambu, I do not have interest in actions that they =imitate to graphite.I live in Spain and the rivers of my zone are small, I do not need cast =too far (I think 30' / 35' max.), but I need cast precise and smooth fly =presentations. thanks to all people & good fishing Juan jbperez@mi.madritel.es ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7431.89C6F440 all: = congratulate by the good work that all people make, advising to which we= doubts. adventure.I look for= graphite. = presentations. people & good fishing jbperez@mi.madritel.es ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF7431.89C6F440-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Feb 10 19:38:09 2000 E-Mail VirusWallNT); Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:20:08 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) richard.nantel@videotron.ca "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: Para15 composite Thanks (again) for your glowing description of my casting Tony. I don'tknow whether to puff out my chest and bask in the glory, or get paranoidabout aquiring a reputation that my actual ability can't sustain.Seriously though everyone, Tony is right about waiting for that backcasttocomplete it's journey before beginning the forward cast as being thesecretto operating one of these gadgets. You don't have to master the timing, therod comes with it's own built in timing which means all you have to do ishold the damned thing and wave it back and forward when it tells you to.That magic forty foot line shoot was more of a tribute to Tony's ability tomake a great rod than anything else. Mike....now how am I going to get my head through that tiny little doorway. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Para15 composite Funny thing about all this talk re. the need to have the feel forparabolics. It's all true but then a fellow like Mike Roberts who is a listlurker comes along and after a life of using a #8 graphite rod throwing"flys" the size of chickens for salt water fish picks up my Force and witha single back cast shoots about 40 feet of line plus the 15 he had in theair.All things considered, I was impressed especially as I expecting Mike tofind it all a bit strange considering his casting background.I think the reason Mike found it easy from the start is the fact he wasused to casting "flys" that tug like a brick on the back cast so he wasprepared for waiting for the backcast to complete before starting theforward stroke.Mike was more used to waiting for the tug than he was fixed with a"timing"so he gave it time to load and as you all know that's about all there is toit. Tony At 10:38 AM 2/9/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:like the feel of these rods. Is there anyone with experiencecasting bothkinds of rod who can compare their feel? I assume theseGranger/Phillipsontapers are not parabolic -- they certainly look different on the tapergraphs. I've built and fished both a para 15 and a Granger 7ft 4 wt. The Granger isa total joy. It casts itself, feels like an extension of my arm, can placea fly anywhere with pin-point accuracy. It can throw a very long cast toosince it throws a very tight loop. I love it to bits. The para on the other hand, well you know how I feel about that one. Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Feb 10 20:35:57 2000 Subject: Ammonium Carbonate Last weekend I tried the ammonium carbonateprocess. Used an aluminum channel the length ofthe oven with the carbonate spread the fulllength. It was pretty lumpy and hard, I thought itwould be more like a powder. Had the bundledstrips in the oven for heat treating using 375 for10 minuets. Five flip and five. The strips did nottake on much color at all. I had another glued upblank so I put it in the oven at 250 for 1 hour tosee what would happen. The blank came out a realnice light golden brown. Did the same with thenew glued up blank and got the same results. It isreally a nice color. I was told the color matchesthe Granger color. Very pleased with the color.Any comments about putting a glued up blank backin the oven for 1 hour.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from martinjensen@home.com Thu Feb 10 21:13:13 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:13:00 -0800 Subject: RE: Norwegians You know what they say about Norwegians don't you? "You can always tell a Norwegian, you just can't tell them very much" Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Norwegians All Norwegians on the list. How many are we? It could be nice to know You, maybe we could gettogetheron orders fromUSA?What about a gathering? mail me of listdanny from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Feb 10 22:54:51 2000 Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:54:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Leonard 37 Taper Craig,Leonard used the following designations:36 was a 6'37 was a 6'6"38 was a 7'39 was a 7'6"40 was a 8'L stood for light actionACM stood for Arthur C. Mills Favorite actionH stood for Heavy action Got this from a very reliable source, Ron Kusse himself!Hope this helps,Shawn Craig Naldrett wrote: Does anybody have a taper for this rod, I am led to believe it's a 7' 3wt. Also what is the signifigance of designaters such as H, L DH withLeonard rods I see in the Archives?--CheersCraig from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Feb 10 23:19:20 2000 Subject: Re: Wood Planing Forms Hi Dennis,In regards to the quad rod forms remember that you'll need to make bothleft hand and right hand grooves in the quad form. In regards to theferrules for a quad I've developed the following chart: size 12/64 ferrulefits "d" = 0.135"- 0.147" , size 13/64 fits "d" = 0.148-0.159, 14/64 fits0.160-0.172", 15/64 fits 0.173-0.184, 16/64 fits 0.185-0.197", 17/64fits0.198-0.209, 18/64 fits 0.210-0.221. I have used Orvis ferrules for thispurpose in that they are not furnished serrated and then I serrated them in4 places making a v-groove using a small diamond coated v- shapedgrindingwheel made by Dremmel. With quads it may be best to build up the flatsunderthe ferrule slightly with cane strips and then turn the ferrule area roundso that the corners are nipped off but the diameter is slightly bigger thanthe thickness across the flats.Ray Gould----- Original Message ---- - Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Ernie, I have never made one, but I was under the impression that folks who do,make them adjustable and they are quite accurate. As for theirdurability,I'm not sure of that either. I guess it depends on how many rods you'replanning to make. Speaking of wood forms... I was toying with the idea of making a set ofquad forms out of maple. The only thing stopping me is the idea ofgettinga ferrule onto a quad. As far as I know nobody makes ferrules for quadsandat the current price of ferrule sets, I'm not about to try to convert hexferrules to quads. I guess I could always do a scarf/tape ferrule, buttheyaren't as pretty (sorry Tom). Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:46 AM Subject: Wood Planing Forms I have a couple of questions for the people using wood planing forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes too inaccuratetouse?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using a non-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at the proper angle andonlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying to make.Ernie Harrison from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 11 00:12:53 2000 Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:12:46 -0800 Subject: Re: tapers & first rod Juan,Many of us like Wayne Cattanach's 7 foot 4 weightrod for the kind of fishing you describe. You may hear itcalled the "Sir D Special." It is listed in the RodmakersTaper Archives at:http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html Hope this helps, Harry Boyd "Juan B. Perez" wrote: hello to all: I want to you to congratulate by the goodwork that all people make, advising to which we do notknow. I will begin to make my first rod , with muchillusion and great amount of doubts. I request advice toyou, to choose the type of better tapers to begin withthis adventure.I look for action bambu, I do not haveinterest in actions that they imitate to graphite.I livein Spain and the rivers of my zone are small, I do notneed cast too far (I think 30' / 35' max.), but I needcast precise and smooth fly presentations. thanks to allpeople & good fishing Juan jbperez@mi.madritel.es from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Feb 11 05:22:13 2000 Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:22:02 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Norwegians boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3033202859_57835_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3033202859_57835_MIME_Part (=E8; ) danny(=E8 ----------From: "Martin Jensen" Subject: RE: NorwegiansDate: fre 11. feb 2000 04:12 You know what they say about Norwegians don't you? "You can always tell a Norwegian, you just can't tell them very much" Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 3:23 PM Subject: Norwegians All Norwegians on the list. How many are we? It could be nice to know You, maybe we could gettogethe=ron orders fromUSA?What about a gathering? mail me of listdanny --MS_Mac_OE_3033202859_57835_MIME_Part Re: Norwegians (=E8 ---------- <RODMAKERS@wuga= =very much" Danny Twa=ng toge=ther --MS_Mac_OE_3033202859_57835_MIME_Part-- from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Feb 11 07:44:59 2000 Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:44:52 -0500 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Now that's interesting. You must have taken apart a lot of feeler gauges!Do you have screws/dowels/something of that sort to hold the two halvesofthe form in alignment, or is it just the C clamps? If it's the C clamps, doyou have any difficulty getting the tops of the two halves to stay alignedin the same plane? -----Original Message-----From: David Rossiter [SMTP:drossiter@uswest.net]Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Wood Planing Forms I adjust the forms using shims cut from automotive feeler gauges, withtheforms held by C-clamps every 5". Takes about 20-30 minutes to set uptheforms. David from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Feb 11 08:08:39 2000 Subject: RE: Ammonium Carbonate Does ammonium carbonate treatment cause the same alterations in thebamboothat are thought to result from heat treatment? Or does it just affect thecolor? -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 8:32 PM Subject: Ammonium Carbonate Last weekend I tried the ammonium carbonateprocess. Used an aluminum channel the length ofthe oven with the carbonate spread the fulllength. It was pretty lumpy and hard, I thought itwould be more like a powder. Had the bundledstrips in the oven for heat treating using 375 for10 minuets. Five flip and five. The strips did nottake on much color at all. I had another glued upblank so I put it in the oven at 250 for 1 hour tosee what would happen. The blank came out a realnice light golden brown. Did the same with thenew glued up blank and got the same results. It isreally a nice color. I was told the color matchesthe Granger color. Very pleased with the color.Any comments about putting a glued up blank backin the oven for 1 hour.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Feb 11 08:08:40 2000 Subject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Ray - Thanks for this really helpful post. One question - what is the "d" youmentioned, the flat-to-flat measurement of the quad or what? Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Wood Planing Forms Hi Dennis,In regards to the quad rod forms remember that you'll needto make both