left hand and right hand grooves in the quad form. Inregards to theferrules for a quad I've developed the following chart: size12/64 ferrulefits "d" = 0.135"- 0.147" , size 13/64 fits "d" =0.148-0.159, 14/64 fits0.160-0.172", 15/64 fits 0.173-0.184, 16/64 fits0.185-0.197", 17/64 fits0.198-0.209, 18/64 fits 0.210-0.221. I have used Orvisferrules for thispurpose in that they are not furnished serrated and then Iserrated them in4 places making a v-groove using a small diamond coatedv-shaped grindingwheel made by Dremmel. With quads it may be best to build upthe flats underthe ferrule slightly with cane strips and then turn theferrule area roundso that the corners are nipped off but the diameter isslightly bigger thanthe thickness across the flats.Ray Gould----- Original Message -----From: Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 11:55 AMSubject: RE: Wood Planing Forms Ernie, I have never made one, but I was under the impression thatfolks who do,make them adjustable and they are quite accurate. As fortheirdurability,I'm not sure of that either. I guess it depends on howmany rods you'replanning to make. Speaking of wood forms... I was toying with the idea ofmaking a set ofquad forms out of maple. The only thing stopping me isthe idea ofgettinga ferrule onto a quad. As far as I know nobody makesferrules for quadsandat the current price of ferrule sets, I'm not about to tryto convert hexferrules to quads. I guess I could always do a scarf/tapeferrule, buttheyaren't as pretty (sorry Tom). Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:46 AM Subject: Wood Planing Forms I have a couple of questions for the people using woodplaning forms:1. How many rods can you make before the form becomes tooinaccurate touse?2. Is this correct? The way I see it is that when using anon-adjustableplaning form the planing form holds the strip at theproper angle and onlyprovides an approximation of the taper you are trying tomake.Ernie Harrison from bhoy@inmind.com Fri Feb 11 09:13:19 2000 Subject: ferrule sizing/hardware questions I'm about to order components for my first rod and I have a few questions. Some of them may have been asked and answered recently, or I may haveseen them in the archive and didn't copy the post. If answers have appeared recently, please forgive me. First, what size ferrule to buy. The books say measure across the flats, convert to 64ths and round up to the next larger size. But I've seen recent or archived posts that say to measure across the apex to fit your ferrules. If you round up using this method, won't you have too loose a fit? For instance, if my apex measurement is .210, which converts to 13.44/64ths, would I order a 13 or a 14 ferrule? Second, my blank's measurement's aren't perfect, so my ferrulemeasurements don't exactly match up. Should I base my ferrule size on the tip measurement or the butt? My inclination is to go with the tips, which are somewhat oversized. That means I'd have to whittle more away from thebutt, but the butt has more cane to play with (butt, but the butt? Sorry). But I have two tips, of course, and the whole thing can get messy. Thirdly, I want dark components on my flamed rod, but I'd like to save learning blueing techniques until later. My idea was to order the "black pearl" finish components from REC. They only offer this option on uniferrules, but most sources I've seen say go with the super swiss style. Am I ok with the uniferrule? Finally, cement. I've searched the archives and this seems to be a very personal choice. My main consideration is to avoid ferrule failure, but also to be able to remove the ferrule with heat in case I want to reuse the ferrule or to fix a screwup. I'm not sure whether the epoxies or urethanes have this property. Several of the suppliers sell ferrule cements... Is this a good choice? If not, what's a good consumer glue that I can get in a small town in the sticks? Sorry for all the questions. Just wait until I get around to reel seats! Bill HoyBill Hoy from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Feb 11 10:23:54 2000 Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Yeah, I know you heard it before, but I had a longconversation with Mark last night. He admits thingshaven't been too peachy lately, but things are lookingbetter. He assures me that the next issue will be In the mean time check out his web site. New featuresinclude a chat room, message boards, and classifiedads you can post and take down yourself. It's atwww.thebambooflyrod.comDarryl from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 11 10:58:08 2000 Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:58:00 -0800 Subject: Re: ferrule sizing/hardware questions Bill Hoy wrote: First, what size ferrule to buy. The books say measure across the flats,convert to 64ths and round up to the next larger size. That's the way I do it, except that I only round up if the measurement ismorethan 40% larger than the smaller size. i.e. 13.44 /64ths gets a size 14ferrule But I've seen recent or archived posts that say to measure across theapexto fityour ferrules. If you round up using this method, won't you have too loosea fit? For instance, if my apex measurement is .210, which converts to13.44/64ths, would I order a 13 or a 14 ferrule? What's the flat to flat measurement? Should I base my ferrule size on the tip measurement or the butt? Try to match measurements as closely as possible by sliding the butt andtip upor down a little before you cut the blank to length. Once you get within.005", it won't matter too much. Thirdly, I want dark components on my flamed rod, but I'd like to savelearning blueing techniques until later. My idea was to order the "blackpearl" finish components from REC. They only offer this option onuniferrules, but most sources I've seen say go with the super swissstyle.Am I ok with the uniferrule? Yes, the uniferrules are nice. They are super swiss style, but made fromsolidstock. Finally, cement. I've searched the archives and this seems to be a verypersonal choice. My main consideration is to avoid ferrule failure, butalso to be able to remove the ferrule with heat in case I want to reusetheferrule or to fix a screwup. I'm not sure whether the epoxies orurethaneshave this property. Several of the suppliers sell ferrule cements... Isthis a good choice? If not, what's a good consumer glue that I can get inasmall town in the sticks?Bill Hoy I've used lots of different glues, and had success with two. First is theUrethane Bond Ray Gould recommends. Second is the 2 part epoxy ChrisBogartrecommends. It is a 5 minute gel, one part blue, the other clear. I haven'thad any luck with the stick cement that you use with heat. That may bemyfault, though. Either order two tubes of Urethane Bond for $7.50, or lookaround for the epoxy. I found it at a True Value Hardware store. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Feb 11 12:44:00 2000 KAA11240; Subject: Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Darrell : from the Planing Form # 50 the numbers for Granger Special 7"6"0 0685 08310 09815 11520 13225 14530 16035 17640 18945 20150 21855 23460 24565 25870 27175 28380 33185 33190 331 Ed Hartzell Darrell A. Lee wrote: Hi gang, I just acquired a Granger Special that is in need of a new tip(s) andtryingto find the taper of this rod. It's a 7 1/2' Granger Special by W&M. I found this old message below posted in the Archives... Anyone have thisissue, would you please be so kind to post the 7' 6" Special taper on thelist for me? David? "The Planing Form number 50-Mar/Apr 1998 has four Granger tapers;8'6" Aristocrat, 8' Favorite, 7'6" Special, 7' Aristocrat. Howell'sbook has a taper for a 7' Wright McGill granger. David Kashuba" I'm probably also going to need the guide spacing and a reel seat too...It's a major fixer. At least I got the right Granger Green thread... 8^) Thanks in advance, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 11 13:32:33 2000 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:32:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Darryl:I don't believe it and I think this guy's a real con artist. Jack -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Yeah, I know you heard it before, but I had a longconversation with Mark last night. He admits thingshaven't been too peachy lately, but things are lookingbetter. He assures me that the next issue will besent out within the next month. In the mean time check out his web site. New featuresinclude a chat room, message boards, and classifiedads you can post and take down yourself. It's atwww.thebambooflyrod.comDarryl from rhd360@maine.edu Fri Feb 11 15:35:14 2000 Level 310) via TCPwith SMTP ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:24:26 EST Subject: Re: Ammonium Carbonate Tony, You could probably go to a lower temp if that's a concern. Ammoniumcarbonate vaborizes at under 150 degrees (into ammonia and co2). Thecoloringof the cane is the result of exposure to the vaporized ammonia so it's notonlythe length of exposure but the amt of chemical used. (With lots ofchemical,lots of ammonia is produced. Maybe someone will know which is moreimportantlength of exposure or amt of chemical?? Does a larger amt of ammoniumcarb.produce the same effect in less time as a smaller amt. in more time?) 'Bouthow much did you toss in the oven? --Bob At 08:32 PM 2/10/00 -0600, you wrote:Last weekend I tried the ammonium carbonateprocess. Used an aluminum channel the length ofthe oven with the carbonate spread the fulllength. It was pretty lumpy and hard, I thought itwould be more like a powder. Had the bundledstrips in the oven for heat treating using 375 for10 minuets. Five flip and five. The strips did nottake on much color at all. I had another glued upblank so I put it in the oven at 250 for 1 hour tosee what would happen. The blank came out a realnice light golden brown. Did the same with thenew glued up blank and got the same results. It isreally a nice color. I was told the color matchesthe Granger color. Very pleased with the color.Any comments about putting a glued up blank backin the oven for 1 hour.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from thomasrodco@hotmail.com Fri Feb 11 15:55:57 2000 Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:55:20 PST Subject: List? Hello, Is the list still down? I haven't seen anything in a month.Steve Camp- bell______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Feb 11 16:30:34 2000 2000 14:30:30 PST Subject: It looks like Al Babin was suspended at ebay today Anybody who watches lathes and tools there knows of Al. I think hehas been the subject of a few comments here in the past. Al usually goes by mbabin, but also pops up as joebmary.__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Feb 11 17:12:43 2000 Subject: re-heat treat Hi all,I spoke of tip problem about a month ago there was set in it after fishing it once. I got the oven tweaked and it is pushing 400f. (heatgun oven) . I didnot give up on these 2 tips so i striped off the guides, varnish and plan on re- heat treating them. I used u-rak glue i wasplanning heating them at 350f. for 10 to 15 min. will the heat hurt the glue or the blanks? Any suggestions?Should this take care of set and moistureproblem? Thanks,Tom n. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Feb 11 18:15:44 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Thanks a bunch Ed! Please go to my web site and pick out any spool of myvintage silk thread or nylon jasper threads (excluding the silk jasperthread) and email me offlist your mailing address and I'll send you thespool free as a small token of my appreciation. Here's the URL... www.bamboorods.homepage.com/silkpage1.htm Thanks!!! Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Darrell : from the Planing Form # 50 the numbers for Granger Special 7"6"0 0685 08310 09815 11520 13225 14530 16035 17640 18945 20150 21855 23460 24565 25870 27175 28380 33185 33190 331 Ed Hartzell Darrell A. Lee wrote: Hi gang, I just acquired a Granger Special that is in need of a new tip(s) andtryingto find the taper of this rod. It's a 7 1/2' Granger Special by W&M. I found this old message below posted in the Archives... Anyone have thisissue, would you please be so kind to post the 7' 6" Special taper on thelist for me? David? "The Planing Form number 50-Mar/Apr 1998 has four Granger tapers;8'6" Aristocrat, 8' Favorite, 7'6" Special, 7' Aristocrat. Howell'sbook has a taper for a 7' Wright McGill granger. David Kashuba" I'm probably also going to need the guide spacing and a reel seat too...It's a major fixer. At least I got the right Granger Green thread... 8^) Thanks in advance, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Feb 11 19:19:29 2000 RAA27047; "RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed B885DF523D1591CACD7BA920" --------------B885DF523D1591CACD7BA920 Art: Here they are - All of them. This list is reproduced from The PlaningForm #50 and is entitled "A Gathering of Grangers" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ All without varnish. No mention as to whether they were 2 or three piece. Checkin Sinclair's book 8' 6" Aristocrat 8' Favorite 7'6" Special 7' Aristocrat 0 062 070 068062Art Port w5 073 084 083 07210 092 101 098 09215 109 118 115 10820 122 131 132 12025 137 145 145 13530 150 154 160 14535 168 169 176 15840 187 186 189 17045 206 199 201 19650 220 210 218 21055 232 217 234 22960 240 223 246 24165 245 241 258 25370 264 260 271 26275 283 273 283 27180 290 288 331 28485 306 331 331 32090 318 358 331 33695 371 358100 380 358105 380Numbers are averages of measurement across three flats. Rods fro thecollection of Mr. Dana Gray of Townsend, Maine Ed Hartzellrote: Ed,Two questions, please:1) Is that a 2 or a 3 pc rod? and,2) Can you post the others? *Sheepish grin*(No good deed goes unpunished)Thanks,Art At 10:45 AM 02/11/2000 -0800, you wrote:Darrell : from the Planing Form # 50 the numbers for Granger Special7" 6"0 0685 08310 09815 11520 13225 14530 16035 17640 18945 20150 21855 23460 24565 25870 27175 28380 33185 33190 331 Ed Hartzell Darrell A. Lee wrote: Hi gang, I just acquired a Granger Special that is in need of a new tip(s) andtryingto find the taper of this rod. It's a 7 1/2' Granger Special by W&M. I found this old message below posted in the Archives... Anyone havethisissue, would you please be so kind to post the 7' 6" Special taper onthelist for me? David? "The Planing Form number 50-Mar/Apr 1998 has four Granger tapers;8'6" Aristocrat, 8' Favorite, 7'6" Special, 7' Aristocrat. Howell'sbook has a taper for a 7' Wright McGill granger. David Kashuba" I'm probably also going to need the guide spacing and a reel seat too...It's a major fixer. At least I got the right Granger Green thread... 8^) Thanks in advance, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com --------------B885DF523D1591CACD7BA920 from The Planing Form #50 and is entitled "A Gathering of Grangers" 062Art Port w 072 092 108 120 135 145 158 170 196 210 229 241 253 262 271 284 320 336 358 358 three Ed Hartzellrote:Ed,Two questions, please:1) Is that a 2 or a 3 pc rod? and,2) Can you post the others? *Sheepish grin*(No good deed goes unpunished)Thanks,Art At 10:45 AM 02/11/2000 -0800, you wrote: Special 7" 6" Ed Hartzell Darrell A. Lee wrote: Hi gang, I just acquired a Granger Special that is in need of a new tip(s)andtryingto find the taper of this rod. It's a 7 1/2' Granger Special byW&M. I found this old message below posted in the Archives... Anyonehave thisissue, would you please be so kind to post the 7' 6" Special taperon the "The Planing Form number 50-Mar/Apr 1998 has four Grangertapers;8'6" Aristocrat, 8' Favorite, 7'6" Special, 7' Aristocrat. Howell'sbook has a taper for a 7' Wright McGill granger. David Kashuba" I'm probably also going to need the guide spacing and a reel seattoo...It's a major fixer. At least I got the right Granger Green 8^) Thanks in advance, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com --------------B885DF523D1591CACD7BA920-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 19:55:07 2000 Subject: Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01BF74D1.BF70F0A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BF74D1.BF70F0A0 One little correction. Dana Gray, who collection the tapers are from, is = He is the one who got me interested in Granger rods. One of the Grangers = Paul Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 8:20 PMSubject: Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Art: Here they are - All of them. This list is reproduced from The = -------------------------------------------------------------------------=----- All without varnish. No mention as to whether they were 2 or three = 8' 6" Aristocrat 8' Favorite 7'6" Special 7' = 0 062 070 068 = 5 073 084 083 = 10 092 101 098 = 15 109 118 115 = 20 122 131 132 = 25 137 145 145 = 30 150 154 160 = 35 168 169 176 = 40 187 186 189 = 45 206 199 201 = 50 220 210 218 = 55 232 217 234 = 60 240 223 246 = 65 245 241 258 = 70 264 260 271 = 75 283 273 283 = 80 290 288 331 = 85 306 331 331 = 90 318 358 331 = Numbers are averages of measurement across three flats. Rods fro = Darrell : from the Planing Form # 50 the numbers for Granger = I just acquired a Granger Special that is in need of a new tip(s) = to find the taper of this rod. It's a 7 1/2' Granger Special by = I found this old message below posted in the Archives... Anyone = issue, would you please be so kind to post the 7' 6" Special = "The Planing Form number 50-Mar/Apr 1998 has four Granger tapers;= 8'6" Aristocrat, 8' Favorite, 7'6" Special, 7' Aristocrat. = I'm probably also going to need the guide spacing and a reel seat = It's a major fixer. At least I got the right Granger Green = ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BF74D1.BF70F0A0 One little correction. Dana Gray, who collection the= are from, is from Townsend, MA. not Maine. He is the one who got me interested in Granger rods.= the Grangers I have he refinished and it is absolutely georgous. = Paul ----- Original Message ----- Hartzell = Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: Granger Special 7 = needed = = = = = = = = 072 = = = 092 = = = 108 = = = 120 = = = 135 = = = 145 = = = 158 = = = 170 = = = 196 = = = 210 = = = 229 = = = 241 = = = 253 = = = 262 = = = 271 = = = 284 = = = 320 = = = 336 = = Ed, Two questions, please: 1) Is = a 3 pc rod? and, 2) Can you post the others? *Sheepish grin* = please be so kind to post the 7' 6" Special taper on the = = ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BF74D1.BF70F0A0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Feb 11 21:07:13 2000 jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca(Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:54:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Various questions... Guys,with regards to the slow draining drip type tube: I have never seenone ofthese but the image I have in my mind raises 2 questions...1) I am assuming that you leave the rod right in this tube to dry; if so howto you keepthe valve cleaned out?2) are there any images or plans for one of these online?Thanks,Shawn Steve Zimmerman wrote: Hello, all. My progress towards getting my first set of rod(s) completed continues.I have threeCattanach taper (7' 3pc #3/4) blanks and one Gould taper (5' 1pc #4) blankawaiting aferrule order and varnishing. I taped a reel seat, grip, and a few guides tothe 5' blankand casted it by kneeling down in my hallway last night--loads of fun andI can't wait tohave these rods done so I can fish with them (and start on the next one). Two questions... (1) I've had a hard time getting the blanks straight, especially rightafter gluing.I'm using Nyatex epoxy, binding and straightening by hand, letting it sit anhour or two,straightening again, and finally heating about 10 minutes to cure beforeremoving thebinding thread. After scraping/sanding off the glue, I finally was able toget the blanksfairly straight with a heat gun by taping on guides and eyeing down theshaft. Tediouswork. I'm using a flat board as a roller, a paint roller, etc to straightenduring gluingbut the blanks still require heat-gun work after drying. Any tricks? (2) I'm getting ready to varnish using heated Pratt & Lambert VarmorR10 in aslow-draining dip tube. Any gotchas I should be aware of? I'm assuming Ithat I do NOTthin this type of varnish. I've read contradictory opinions as to whether ornot I need aspecial polish. Advice? Thanks a lot for the help so far. I'll post screen shots of the finishedproduct ifpeople are interested in getting a chuckle or two out of a newbie effort. Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from can@telusplanet.net Fri Feb 11 22:10:28 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with ESMTP ;Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:10:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Various questions... Shawn, Darryl Hayashida was the first (I read of) to try this method,first post was in Sept 95, the subject wanders through the Archives,usually headed as "drip or drain". He submerged his valve in Turpentineor Thinner (I believe) after draining, I simply unscrew mine from afitting at the bottom of my tube (learned the hard way). Don't knowabout plans or images but it's pretty basic.-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Feb 11 22:18:22 2000 Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:17:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Various questions... Thanks Craig,I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? Shawn Craig Naldrett wrote: Shawn, Darryl Hayashida was the first (I read of) to try this method,first post was in Sept 95, the subject wanders through the Archives,usually headed as "drip or drain". He submerged his valve in Turpentineor Thinner (I believe) after draining, I simply unscrew mine from afitting at the bottom of my tube (learned the hard way). Don't knowabout plans or images but it's pretty basic.--CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from flash@gds.co.za Sat Feb 12 00:45:39 2000 be forged)) Subject: SA Rodmakers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF7531.80E98C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF7531.80E98C60 Is there any South African Rodmakers on the list??If any please contact me at: flash@gds.co.za ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF7531.80E98C60 Is there any South AfricanRodmakers = list?? =flash@gds.co.za ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF7531.80E98C60-- from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Feb 12 08:06:21 2000 Subject: Subscription boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF756A.B701E0C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF756A.B701E0C0 Subscribe rodmakers Marco Boretti ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF756A.B701E0C0 Boretti ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF756A.B701E0C0-- from sats@gte.net Sat Feb 12 10:54:55 2000Received: from Subject: Re: Hello again Just a quick note to say hello. Jon, You sos and so! You abandoned me! Seriously, good to hear from you and I hope we can get together in the nearfuture to "fish an all bamboo boat." Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from lars32@gateway.net Sat Feb 12 11:13:06 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: ferrule sizing/hardware questions Bill,If you want to get an absolutly foolproof blue for your nickel silver, getDave LeClair's bluing (it's the old payne formula)It does a beautiful joband is easy to do.Dave N.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ferrule sizing/hardware questions Bill Hoy wrote: First, what size ferrule to buy. The books say measure across the flats,convert to 64ths and round up to the next larger size. That's the way I do it, except that I only round up if the measurement ismorethan 40% larger than the smaller size. i.e. 13.44 /64ths gets a size 14ferrule But I've seen recent or archived posts that say to measure across theapexto fityour ferrules. If you round up using this method, won't you have tooloosea fit? For instance, if my apex measurement is .210, which converts to13.44/64ths, would I order a 13 or a 14 ferrule? What's the flat to flat measurement? Should I base my ferrule size on the tip measurement or the butt? Try to match measurements as closely as possible by sliding the butt andtip upor down a little before you cut the blank to length. Once you get within.005", it won't matter too much. Thirdly, I want dark components on my flamed rod, but I'd like to savelearning blueing techniques until later. My idea was to order the "blackpearl" finish components from REC. They only offer this option onuniferrules, but most sources I've seen say go with the super swissstyle.Am I ok with the uniferrule? Yes, the uniferrules are nice. They are super swiss style, but made fromsolidstock. Finally, cement. I've searched the archives and this seems to be a verypersonal choice. My main consideration is to avoid ferrule failure, butalso to be able to remove the ferrule with heat in case I want to reusetheferrule or to fix a screwup. I'm not sure whether the epoxies orurethaneshave this property. Several of the suppliers sell ferrule cements... Isthis a good choice? If not, what's a good consumer glue that I can get inasmall town in the sticks?Bill Hoy I've used lots of different glues, and had success with two. First is theUrethane Bond Ray Gould recommends. Second is the 2 part epoxy ChrisBogartrecommends. It is a 5 minute gel, one part blue, the other clear. Ihaven'thad any luck with the stick cement that you use with heat. That may bemyfault, though. Either order two tubes of Urethane Bond for $7.50, or lookaround for the epoxy. I found it at a True Value Hardware store. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from lars32@gateway.net Sat Feb 12 11:24:16 2000 Subject: Re: heat gun oven uilt yhe heat gun over right out of the Best of the planing form book.Modified it by making the outer tube double. Monitor temp with candythermometers in three places. No need to flip the blanks temp is fine.contact off list if you need more.Dave N.-----Original Message----- Subject: heat gun oven Hi everyone:I am trying my first full noded rod after two decent attempts withnodelessconstruction. Therefore, the kitchen stove will no longer suffice.Does anyone have experience with a vertical heat gun oven? I have a 6'section of tubing (stove pipe) and I have a vent/cover for the top end. IfI attach it to a beam vertically in my shop, hang the strips, and place theheat gun underneath, will the gun's temperature eventually level off inthetube? I figured I would go vertical because then I would not have to flipthe strips.Does this seem like it will work? Do I need to cover up the bottom end? Ijust don't have a good thermometer yet to know what to expect.TIA, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from dannyt@frisurf.no Sat Feb 12 12:23:15 2000 (MET) Subject: Norwegians OK, so I assume there is no more Norwegians........... Only Martin Jensen:-)) and myself. danny from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Feb 12 13:29:39 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?"I came up with the idea as a "poor man's" dip tube. Letting itdry in the tube was my replacement for a dust free room. Ikept the valve clean by filling a Campbell's soup can withpaint thinner and propping it up under the tube, submergingthe valve. Later I just worked out the right size hole in thebottom by trial and error and plugged it with a cork. Fillthe tube, put your section in, pull the cork. Draining thevarnish back into the can of course. Something that hasbeen a problem for others, but I never have had a problemwith, was due to the hydraulic head it drains slower asthe level goes down. Draining slower means the varnishcoat is thinner. All in all, with no stepper motors, spaceconstraints, and being very cheap (all you need to buyis a PVC pipe and and end cap) it has work very well Darryl from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Feb 12 14:40:08 2000 Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:39:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Various questions... Darryl,yes that is what I was trying to get at, because there are somany people on here that use heated drying cabinets. So you just let itdry at room temp? How about the rate,I thought you had to hesitate atthe guides or you would get sags?I thought that a slower rate meant a thicker coat?You'll have to bear with me, this dipping is still just in theexperimental phase for me. Thanks for all the help!Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?"I came up with the idea as a "poor man's" dip tube. Letting itdry in the tube was my replacement for a dust free room. Ikept the valve clean by filling a Campbell's soup can withpaint thinner and propping it up under the tube, submergingthe valve. Later I just worked out the right size hole in thebottom by trial and error and plugged it with a cork. Fillthe tube, put your section in, pull the cork. Draining thevarnish back into the can of course. Something that hasbeen a problem for others, but I never have had a problemwith, was due to the hydraulic head it drains slower asthe level goes down. Draining slower means the varnishcoat is thinner. All in all, with no stepper motors, spaceconstraints, and being very cheap (all you need to buyis a PVC pipe and and end cap) it has work very well Darryl from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Feb 12 15:04:39 2000 Subject: Drain Tube Regarding an unmarred removal of a wet rod section from a drain tube:Someone on this List said he wrapped the lower end (on the ferrule/tip-top)of the section to be varnished with masking tape and pierced the tape with3straight pins, each at right angles to the bamboo, keeping it from bumpingthe side during removal.Ed from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Feb 12 15:38:29 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... Tony Spezio wrote: I will jump in here, You should stop at each wrap and let the varnishflowto the end of the wrap. What I use as a guide is the varnish on the wall ofthe tube. You can see the varnish flowing, if there is a break in the rateof flow on the tube wall and the top of the varnish then the varnish isdraining faster than it is flowing off the sides of the rod. This maycauseruns on the blank. In normal retracting the rod from a tube, the film inthe guides can be broken with a little breath blow on the guide. Thiscan'tbe done in a drain tube very well. I stop the drain just below the guideand wait till the film breaks. Sometimes it don't seem like it will breakat all, but it always does. After the film breaks I wait till the varnishfilm that is released from the guide runs down so it will leave a run.My method is to stop at every wrap and guide. Maybe it may not benecessarybut I don't want any runs and so far I have not had any.This is not telling you that it has to be done this way, it is what works Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote: Darryl,yes that is what I was trying to get at, because there are somany people on here that use heated drying cabinets. So you just let itdry at room temp? How about the rate,I thought you had to hesitate atthe guides or you would get sags?I thought that a slower rate meant a thicker coat?You'll have to bear with me, this dipping is still just in theexperimental phase for me. Thanks for all the help!Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?"I came up with the idea as a "poor man's" dip tube. Letting itdry in the tube was my replacement for a dust free room. Ikept the valve clean by filling a Campbell's soup can withpaint thinner and propping it up under the tube, submergingthe valve. Later I just worked out the right size hole in thebottom by trial and error and plugged it with a cork. Fillthe tube, put your section in, pull the cork. Draining thevarnish back into the can of course. Something that hasbeen a problem for others, but I never have had a problemwith, was due to the hydraulic head it drains slower asthe level goes down. Draining slower means the varnishcoat is thinner. All in all, with no stepper motors, spaceconstraints, and being very cheap (all you need to buyis a PVC pipe and and end cap) it has work very well Darryl from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Feb 12 15:39:24 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?" It can be done and without too much trouble. The first rod I didwith the drain tube I left the section in the tube and it took twodays to dry. I decided I had to find a way to pull the rod from thetube without touching the sides. I only have a 6' 9" ceiling. AfterI tape the ferrule that I put in the tube first, I stick threeQuilting round head pins into the tape at 120* to form a "Y". I dothe same at the top. I made my tube so that it is removable from thestand. This allows me to remove the tube, tilt it as far as I needto.I use the loop at the end that hangs the rod in the tube to hang ona hook from the ceiling so that I can work the tube hand over handback away from the rod. The three pins keep the rod centered in thetube. When I come to the end of the tube I just cup my hand and"catch" the end with the pins as it comes out of the tube. It can bedone faster than it takes me to type it.I still use the valve to control the flow and am using a clear tube.When I am finished for the day, I flush the tube and valve buyrunning some thinner through the whole thing and let drain for ashort tome. I store it with the drain valve open and the end of aplastic artist brush handle through the valve opening.I have varnished nine rods like this so far. It has worked real well I got the idea of draining from one of your messages to the list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Feb 12 16:51:17 2000 Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:50:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Various questions... So how long do you have to let a rod sit after varnishing withoutputting it in a drying cabinet before fishing it as opposed to a cabinetdried rod? Is there a noticeable difference in finish quality between a rodthat was finished using heated varnish and a heated drying cabinet versusacold dipped/dried rod?Does anyone have pictures or plans for one of these beasts? What kindofvalve do you use?Thanks to everyone, Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Of course drying at room temp in a closed tube willtake longer than in a heated, filtered air circulatingdrying cabinet, but making one or two rods a month, itdidn't bother me. I varnish the blank before put the guides on. If youhave guides on first you do have to pause below eachguide. In that case you have to get a clear tube.Someone on the list has found clear tubes to use. Theyare fluorescent light protector tubes, not sure wherehe gets them. Slower rate means thinner varnish. Try this:Pull a section out by hand at a fast rate - I meanthe whole section in a couple seconds. Then lookat the varnish. A slow rate gives the varnish timeto be drawn off the rod by the surface tension of thevarnish.Darryl Darryl,yes that is what I was trying to get at, because there are somany people on here that use heated drying cabinets. So you just let itdry at room temp? How about the rate,I thought you had to hesitate atthe guides or you would get sags?I thought that a slower rate meant a thicker coat?You'll have to bear with me, this dipping is still just in theexperimental phase for me. Thanks for all the help!Shawn from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Feb 12 17:39:29 2000 Subject: Drain tube Glad you jumped in Tony. I was thinking the pins idea came from you backwhen you and Bob Maulucci's discussion convinced me to go this way. I gotmy clear tube by halving an 8' florescent light "tube guard", it's 1 5/8thsdia. I bought a pvc end-cap to fit, glued it on the end of the tube afterthreading for it the brass stop-cock valve. I bought the valve and the capin the plumbing section of a large retailer. Tube cost $3.90, pvc cap $.46, "COMXMIP NEEDL1/4X" valve $2.68. Valve description came off myreceipt.Ed from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Feb 12 17:45:46 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... Shawn,Will send you some scans of my setup.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote: So how long do you have to let a rod sit after varnishing withoutputting it in a drying cabinet before fishing it as opposed to a cabinetdried rod? Is there a noticeable difference in finish quality between arodthat was finished using heated varnish and a heated drying cabinetversus acold dipped/dried rod?Does anyone have pictures or plans for one of these beasts? What kindofvalve do you use?Thanks to everyone, Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Of course drying at room temp in a closed tube willtake longer than in a heated, filtered air circulatingdrying cabinet, but making one or two rods a month, itdidn't bother me. I varnish the blank before put the guides on. If youhave guides on first you do have to pause below eachguide. In that case you have to get a clear tube.Someone on the list has found clear tubes to use. Theyare fluorescent light protector tubes, not sure wherehe gets them. Slower rate means thinner varnish. Try this:Pull a section out by hand at a fast rate - I meanthe whole section in a couple seconds. Then lookat the varnish. A slow rate gives the varnish timeto be drawn off the rod by the surface tension of thevarnish.Darryl Darryl,yes that is what I was trying to get at, because there are somany people on here that use heated drying cabinets. So you just letitdry at room temp? How about the rate,I thought you had to hesitate atthe guides or you would get sags?I thought that a slower rate meant a thicker coat?You'll have to bear with me, this dipping is still just in theexperimental phase for me. Thanks for all the help!Shawn from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Feb 12 18:08:27 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... So how long do you have to let a rod sit after varnishing withoutputting it in a drying cabinet before fishing it as opposed to a cabinetdried rod? This depends a lot on your local conditions. I have seen people say 3days and it isn't dry yet. In sunny S. Calif. I leave it for 24 hours andit is hard enough so that dust won't stick to it and I can take it outto hang from my ceiling. I must admit though, I have put togethera drying cabinet now, ever since last summer and we had a lot ofoff and on high humidity and the rod I was making wouldn't dry orwrinkled up - just gave me fits in general.Darryl from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Feb 12 18:27:49 2000 Subject: Sowbug Roundup The North Arkansas Flyfishers will be having theirthird annual "Celebration of Fyfishing" event inMtn. Home Arkansas. Harry Boyd and Rick Crenshawwill be doing domos on rod making. There will alsobe a couple of other from this list that will havebooths set up. I just got a message that therewill be a vendor with some bamboo culms available There are 72 flytyers that will be demonstratingtheir tying skills. Hope to see some of you there. More information can be found at this site.http://www.northarkansasflyfisher.org/ Clickon Sowbug RoundupTony FlyTyr@southshore.com from bob@downandacross.com Sat Feb 12 18:55:40 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Various questions... I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick in a drying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? I think the whole drip tube idea is great, but I tried it with fair results and will only use it in the future if I cannot pull the section. Right now, I can do up to 7'6" sections, and I like the control of pulling them out better than the constant filtering and refilling of the drip tube. Still have mine for the odd 8 footer, but I like the results better with pulling them out and throwing them in my drying cabinet.An important note to this is that I live in a very cold region (Buffalo) and work out of the basement. If I lived in a moderate region like CA, it wouldn't take three days for the sections to fully dry in the drip tube. a nice stepper motor setup.Bob I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from martinjensen@home.com Sat Feb 12 19:03:17 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:03:08 -0800 Subject: RE: Norwegians That must be it. Maybe they only respond when called "squareheads"? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Norwegians OK, so I assume there is no more Norwegians........... Only Martin Jensen:-)) and myself. danny from bob@downandacross.com Sat Feb 12 19:09:17 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Drip vs Dip Ed:Sorry I jumped ship and bought a stepper motor. Everyone who chimed in on last months setup discussion was fantastic. Drip, Dip, who cares? A good varnish job is all that matters. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Feb 12 19:21:46 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... Bob,I would rather pull the rod out of the tube also but with a 6'9" ceiling itcan't be done unless you are making three or four piece rods.Tony bob maulucci wrote: I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick in adrying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? I think thewhole drip tube idea is great, but I tried it with fair results and willonly use it in the future if I cannot pull the section. Right now, I can doup to 7'6" sections, and I like the control of pulling them out better thanthe constant filtering and refilling of the drip tube. Still have mine forthe odd 8 footer, but I like the results better with pulling them out andthrowing them in my drying cabinet.An important note to this is that I live in a very cold region (Buffalo)and work out of the basement. If I lived in a moderate region like CA, itwouldn't take three days for the sections to fully dry in the drip tube. fora nice stepper motor setup.Bob I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Feb 12 19:51:07 2000 Subject: Fw: Drip vs Dip Bob:Graduating to a stepper motor convinces me that you can no longer beknownas "The Bamboo Butcher of Buffalo" 8 >)Nip, Sip, Dip, Drip, Butt or Tip....which end of a non-grip section do yourecommend placing in the lower end of the varnish tube...or does itmatter?Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Drip vs Dip Ed:Sorry I jumped ship and bought a stepper motor. Everyone who chimed inonlast months setup discussion was fantastic. Drip, Dip, who cares? A goodvarnish job is all that matters. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Feb 12 22:06:42 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... In a message dated 2/12/00 4:56:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick in a drying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? Because you can tip it over so the ceiling isn't in the way.Darryl from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Feb 12 22:40:06 2000 Subject: Gluing up using waxed thread Bening in the process of removing the thread from my freshly glued rod, Iwas wondering abut the pros/cons of using a waxed thread, ie 3/0 tyingthread for wrapping while gluing--would it make the thread removaleasierwithout leaving the little fuzzies behind, yet cause no problems?Just wondering, Mike from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sat Feb 12 23:20:28 2000 with ESMTP id ;Sun, 13 Feb 2000 05:19:53 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Various questions... Tony, I too have low ceilings. I use the staircase to my basement for my diptube. It gives me an effective height of 14 feet if I need it. I canpull 6 1/2 foot sections if needed. The only downside is that thesection swings out of the tube if I'm not there to catch it so I do afair amount of babysitting. I just crank the stereo, crack open a beerand watch the grass grow... It works for me though. Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: Bob,I would rather pull the rod out of the tube also but with a 6'9" ceiling itcan't be done unless you are making three or four piece rods.Tony bob maulucci wrote: I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick in adrying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? I think thewhole drip tube idea is great, but I tried it with fair results and willonly use it in the future if I cannot pull the section. Right now, I can doup to 7'6" sections, and I like the control of pulling them out betterthanthe constant filtering and refilling of the drip tube. Still have mine forthe odd 8 footer, but I like the results better with pulling them out andthrowing them in my drying cabinet.An important note to this is that I live in a very cold region (Buffalo)and work out of the basement. If I lived in a moderate region like CA, itwouldn't take three days for the sections to fully dry in the drip tube. fora nice stepper motor setup.Bob I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from chris@artistree.com Sun Feb 13 01:15:26 2000 Subject: Dip vs. Drip - Best of both worlds Some might find the following useful. I have always dipped my rods and placed them in a drying cabinet w/light bulb to aid in drying. I never liked moving the rods from the"dip" system to the drying cabinet as on occasion it has picked up dustor during the summer those pesky little bugs. I also don't have the timeto leave them in the varnishing system waiting for them to dry. The ideaof leaving the rod in the "drip" system tube inspired me to incorporatethat particular benefit into the "dip" system. The idea was to attach the clear plastic tubes (fluorescent protectorsor acrylic tubing) to the top of my "dip" system and raise the rod intothe tube. Three pins are stuck in masking tape wrapped around the bottomferrule and a cap with a hole centered for the draw string is attachedto the top of the clear tube. When finished retracting the rod, cut thedrawstring and tape it to the side of tube. This keeps the rod centeredduring transport to drying cabinet. The tube also has a wire hangerattached to the top and I hang the whole tube (with rod) in the dryingcabinet. I now have a number of tubes of various lengths that I use. I feel ithas improved my finish and allowed me to speed up the whole process atthe same time. I don't have to be as careful moving the sections aroundand my varnish system is not tied up waiting for a rod to dry. -- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from chris@artistree.com Sun Feb 13 01:53:13 2000 Subject: Dip vs. Drip - Additional Info An additional couple of things: Use needles instead of pins and angle them in the tape so the eyes pointdown (like an inverted umbrella or bumper shoot??) The needles arelonger than pins and the angle provides a more trouble free transition from the "dip" tub to the clear tube when retracting the rod. In otherwords the rod will center itself. If dipping with a stripping guideattached, be sure the needles angle out further than the stripping guide. Also, it's important that the clear tube is completely vertical to thedipping tube. My whole system is in a box type frame so I justincorporated a brace w/ cutout inside the frame. In other words I canjust slide the clear tube into the cutout, lock it in place and I knowit's vertical. My wife jokes that the whole system looks like ahangman's gallery (dip system) complete with a waiting coffin (dryingcabinet).-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sun Feb 13 04:29:09 2000 Sun, 13 Feb 2000 21:20:46 +1100 Subject: Re: Various questions...Varnishing Hello: The pulling way has been mentioned several times when I havebeen looking, perhaps more often. Would it be OK at this point for oneor more list members experienced in this technique to maybe give adetained mention of how it is done. Because the idea of ripping a blankout of a tube of varnish by hand is counterintuitive to all theliterature, 4 inches per minute etc. If this post is requesting arepeat, please say, or please refer to what archive. And I suppose, butperhaps incorrectly, pulling is to be done only with blanks withoutguides? As I just learned the greater simplicity and ease of roughplaning with water soaked cane, maybe there are comparable advances insimplicity in the varnishing process. Thanks to the list for greatinsights. Sean DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/12/00 4:56:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick in adrying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? Because you can tip it over so the ceiling isn't in the way.Darryl from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Feb 13 07:37:55 2000 (MET) Subject: RE: Norwegians boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3033383814_41511_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3033383814_41511_MIME_Part Guess so regardsdanny That must be it. Maybe they only respond when called "squareheads"? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Norwegians OK, so I assume there is no more Norwegians........... Only Martin Jensen:-)) and myself. danny --MS_Mac_OE_3033383814_41511_MIME_Part RE: Norwegians Guess so regardsdanny That must be it. Maybe they only respond when called"squareheads"=;? Martin Jensen OK, so I assume there is no more Norwegians........... Only Martin Jensen:-)) and myself. danny --MS_Mac_OE_3033383814_41511_MIME_Part-- from mep@mint.net Sun Feb 13 07:48:23 2000 Sun, 13 Feb 2000 08:48:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Gluing up using waxed thread I use cotton thread from the sewing store it is much heavier than 3/0,peopleuse it to make lace. I wax it heavily using parrafin. It usually comes off inone continuous piece. Never had a problem with it interfering with theglue (I use west system epoxy). All my rods are still together the oldest is 6years. I use cotton because I heat treat a bound section, not glued ofcourse, ( helps to keep things straight) the cotton will not melt. Mike Mike Shaffer wrote: Bening in the process of removing the thread from my freshly glued rod, Iwas wondering abut the pros/cons of using a waxed thread, ie 3/0 tyingthread for wrapping while gluing--would it make the thread removaleasierwithout leaving the little fuzzies behind, yet cause no problems?Just wondering, Mike from bob@downandacross.com Sun Feb 13 08:06:01 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Various questions... Yes, Darryl, big duh on me. With no varnish left in it you can tip your tube if you use pins or something to keep sections from the sides of the tube. The whole idea of pulling out tacky sections, pins or no pins, still scares me. I think leaving them in the tube to dry would be the better way.Bob At 11:06 PM 2/12/00 -0500, you wrote:In a message dated 2/12/00 4:56:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick in adrying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? Because you can tip it over so the ceiling isn't in the way.Darryl Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 13 09:16:55 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions...Varnishing Sean,I think you are missing the point here. Removing the blank from the tube isafterthe varnish is drained from the tube at about the rate of 4 1/2" p.m.. Usthat havelow ceilings can't pull a 4' section out of a 4.5' tube so we drain thevarnish outof the tube instead of pulling the blank from the vanish (tube).Hope this clears it up.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comSean McSharry wrote: Hello: The pulling way has been mentioned several times when I havebeen looking, perhaps more often. Would it be OK at this point for oneor more list members experienced in this technique to maybe give adetained mention of how it is done. Because the idea of ripping a blankout of a tube of varnish by hand is counterintuitive to all theliterature, 4 inches per minute etc. If this post is requesting arepeat, please say, or please refer to what archive. And I suppose, butperhaps incorrectly, pulling is to be done only with blanks withoutguides? As I just learned the greater simplicity and ease of roughplaning with water soaked cane, maybe there are comparable advances insimplicity in the varnishing process. Thanks to the list for greatinsights. Sean DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/12/00 4:56:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick inadrying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? Because you can tip it over so the ceiling isn't in the way.Darryl from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Feb 13 09:18:48 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 13 Feb 2000 09:19:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Various questions... Just one thing I'd point out here. It sounded in one message I read, thatanother newbie, like me, thought the cane was heat treated aftervarnishing.My point here, is that the heat treating of the cane is done before gluingup the planed strips, and the drying cabinet has nothing to do with the heattreatment of the cane. If I got the wrong impression here, my apologies all around. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Various questions... I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick inadrying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? I think thewhole drip tube idea is great, but I tried it with fair results and willonly use it in the future if I cannot pull the section. Right now, I candoup to 7'6" sections, and I like the control of pulling them out betterthanthe constant filtering and refilling of the drip tube. Still have mine forthe odd 8 footer, but I like the results better with pulling them out andthrowing them in my drying cabinet.An important note to this is that I live in a very cold region (Buffalo)and work out of the basement. If I lived in a moderate region like CA, itwouldn't take three days for the sections to fully dry in the drip tube. fora nice stepper motor setup.Bob I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Feb 13 09:56:40 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: varnishing confusion I think by heat treating after varnishing, the poster meant putting them in a warm drying cabinet so they tack up and dry quicker. At least I hope that's what was meant. N.B. Do not put varnished strips in a heat treating oven unless you like the wavy gravy look that is the result.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 13 10:03:02 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... I do my heat treating after I get the initial 60* angle. Then I bind the sixstrips for tip and butt section and heat treat. After heat treating I do thefinal taper, glue and bind.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com nobler wrote: Just one thing I'd point out here. It sounded in one message I read, thatanother newbie, like me, thought the cane was heat treated aftervarnishing.My point here, is that the heat treating of the cane is done before gluingup the planed strips, and the drying cabinet has nothing to do with theheattreatment of the cane. If I got the wrong impression here, my apologies all around. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "bob maulucci" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 6:53 PMSubject: Re: Various questions... I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick inadrying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? I think thewhole drip tube idea is great, but I tried it with fair results and willonly use it in the future if I cannot pull the section. Right now, I cando> > up to 7'6" sections, and I like the control of pulling them out betterthanthe constant filtering and refilling of the drip tube. Still have mine forthe odd 8 footer, but I like the results better with pulling them out andthrowing them in my drying cabinet.An important note to this is that I live in a very cold region (Buffalo)and work out of the basement. If I lived in a moderate region like CA, itwouldn't take three days for the sections to fully dry in the drip tube. fora nice stepper motor setup.Bob I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 13 10:24:05 2000 Subject: Re: Various questions... Shawn,Contact me off list with your E address, I did not save it. Will send thescans ifyou want them.Tony Spezio wrote: Shawn,Will send you some scans of my setup.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 13 10:25:44 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAA26E902A4; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:24:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Dip vs. Drip - Best of both worlds Chris,CUT: "When finished retracting the rod, cut thedrawstring and tape it to the side of tube." Watch out for that tape holding the rod. It'll bite you in a veryinaccessible place someday. Ask how I know.Art At 11:15 PM 02/12/2000 -0800, Chris Wohlford wrote:Some might find the following useful. I have always dipped my rods and placed them in a drying cabinet w/light bulb to aid in drying. I never liked moving the rods from the"dip" system to the drying cabinet as on occasion it has picked up dustor during the summer those pesky little bugs. I also don't have the timeto leave them in the varnishing system waiting for them to dry. The ideaof leaving the rod in the "drip" system tube inspired me to incorporatethat particular benefit into the "dip" system. The idea was to attach the clear plastic tubes (fluorescent protectorsor acrylic tubing) to the top of my "dip" system and raise the rod intothe tube. Three pins are stuck in masking tape wrapped around the bottomferrule and a cap with a hole centered for the draw string is attachedto the top of the clear tube. When finished retracting the rod, cut thedrawstring and tape it to the side of tube. This keeps the rod centeredduring transport to drying cabinet. The tube also has a wire hangerattached to the top and I hang the whole tube (with rod) in the dryingcabinet. I now have a number of tubes of various lengths that I use. I feel ithas improved my finish and allowed me to speed up the whole process atthe same time. I don't have to be as careful moving the sections aroundand my varnish system is not tied up waiting for a rod to dry. -- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Feb 13 11:30:55 2000 Subject: Re: Gluing up using waxed thread I use fishing monofilament to bind for gluing. It stretches a bit as youbind, it can slip a little to even out the pressure if need be, and it zipsright off after the glue dries leaving nothing sticking to the rod. It isavailable everywhere at ridiculously low prices if you don't get thepremium grades, and you can get any size you want. I use 6 lbtest for tips and 10 lb test for butts. Just don't ust it for bindingto heat treat. It will melt.Darryl Bening in the process of removing the thread from my freshly glued rod, Iwas wondering abut the pros/cons of using a waxed thread, ie 3/0 tyingthread for wrapping while gluing--would it make the thread removaleasierwithout leaving the little fuzzies behind, yet cause no problems?Just wondering, from chris@artistree.com Sun Feb 13 14:53:18 2000 Subject: Re: Dip vs. Drip - Best of both worlds Art,Try using a little piece of duct tape.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Art Port wrote: Chris,CUT: "When finished retracting the rod, cut thedrawstring and tape it to the side of tube." Watch out for that tape holding the rod. It'll bite you in a veryinaccessible place someday. Ask how I know.Art from if6were9@bellsouth.net Sun Feb 13 17:51:45 2000 Subject: Decal Paper Just got some good news for anyone interested in doing their own decals. CustomTackle Supply in Shelbyville TN will soon have the inkjet decal sheets andfixerin stock. I was up yesterday and Kenny told me they had it on order andwereexpecting it any day. He also told me that it will be demonstrated at therodmakers meeting in Nashville next weekend. I've been using this productsincechristmas and so far with the exception of not being able to reproduce ametallicor metal foil tone, everything else I've tried with it has been great. Goldleafand gold paint look as good as the real thing when reproduced on this stuff. Itwill take Flex Coat but I would avoid any kind of solvent based finish ontop ofit. I tried putting some spar varnish on it and it caused the colors to run,itdid however work fine when applied on top of cured varnish.When applied to a smooth surface, it is almost impossible to tell it is adecal.I've shown my test pieces to several people and none have been able toguess thatit was a decal. As part of my testing, I scanned an old Fender guitarheadstocklogo and took it to a friend that builds and restores guitars. He thought itwasan old original decal I had come up. from what I've seen so far, this is agoodproduct.The usual disclaimers regarding Custom Tackle and inkjet decal paper, nocommercial interest, etc. from jlintvet@erols.com Sun Feb 13 19:08:43 2000 ([207.172.79.235]helo=compaq) Subject: Finally Settled Down I just wanted to drop a note and let everybody know I am finally settled down here in Richmond! I appreciate all of the kind phone calls and emails wishing Melissa and I well! It is great to know our friends out in Rodmaker land are all doing well. I especially appreciate those of you who have taken the time to drop me notes or phone calls about conversations here on the list. Just so everyone knows, I am now living in Richmond, VA and working for Capital One Financial. I guess you could say I didn't have any idea how much time starting a new job would take...(John, Alan and Chris, I know you warned me!). That aside, I owe the list a sincere apology. You all have always been supportive and I let some of you down while my transition was going on. I am really excited to have time to read the list again and make sure I'm around. I look forward to talking and seeing you all soon! Jon from listreader@codemarine.com Sun Feb 13 20:24:03 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Tapers, Hexrod, and such Ok, so I've seen the archive of tapers and there's a neat little graph next tomany ofthem that makes absolutely no sense to me. I have downloaded Hexrod, butwithout anycontextual information, it's still not obvious what this software does andhow it doesit. Yes, I'm sure I can read about it in the Cattanach book, but Amazon isn'tselling the 1stedition and the 2nd edition won't be out for a while. Anyone got an old onethey'd sellme or have an explanation for me? My understanding is that I can use Hexrod to convert a 4wt rod into a 3wtrod, forexample or to visually see the taper difference between say a Young and aHeddon. Is thatcorrect? What's the math involved and/or where can I read about it? Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from johnsabina@home.com Sun Feb 13 20:54:06 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:53:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Tapers, Hexrod, and such Steve: The math behind the program is from the Garrison/Carmichael book. WayneCattanach has an article explaining his approach on the Rodmakers site. Itis under the Tips, Tools & FAQ's section. The graphs, while not labelled,plot bending stress on the vertical axis (increasing toward the top inin-oz) vs. distance along the rod on the horizontal axis (the tip is to theleft and distance down the rod is to the right (in inches.) I agree thatHexrod needs a help file and have offered Wayne my help in creating one. Sofar, we have not worked out the details. JJS-----Original Message----- Subject: Tapers, Hexrod, and such Ok, so I've seen the archive of tapers and there's a neat little graph nextto many of them that makes absolutely no sense to me. I have downloadedHexrod, but without any contextual information, it's still not obvious whatthis software does and how it does it. Yes, I'm sure I can read about it in the Cattanach book, but Amazon isn'tselling the 1st edition and the 2nd edition won't be out for a while. Anyonegot an old one they'd sell me or have an explanation for me? My understanding is that I can use Hexrod to convert a 4wt rod into a 3wtrod, for example or to visually see the taper difference between say aYoungand a Heddon. Is that correct? What's the math involved and/or where can Iread about it? Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from piscator@crosswinds.net Sun Feb 13 21:12:08 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Finally Settled Down Melissa? I thought you said her name was Bunny! Musta been some oneelse. . . . ;^) Brian from briansr@point-net.com Mon Feb 14 05:56:44 2000 be forged)) Subject: Off topic Hi folksThere's a lot of postings on the euroFF list this A.M. on the cyanidepoisoning in Hungary.It's a real &^%$# tragegy !!Fish will die @1/7mg/litreconcentration,but they are finding fish with a condentration ofmg/kg( about what will knock off humans !!)Brian from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Feb 14 07:38:37 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id HAA18995 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withESMTP id HAA06360 for ; Mon, 14 Feb Subject: Re: Tapers, Hexrod, and such Darryl Hayashida has a nice descriptions of what stress curves can tellyou. You can find it in the archives at http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9610.260 If you search the archives for "stress curve" you will get a lot ofdiscussion about other points.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 13 Feb 2000, Steve Zimmerman wrote: Ok, so I've seen the archive of tapers and there's a neat little graph nextto many ofthem that makes absolutely no sense to me. I have downloaded Hexrod, butwithout anycontextual information, it's still not obvious what this software does andhow it doesit. Yes, I'm sure I can read about it in the Cattanach book, but Amazon isn'tselling the1st edition and the 2nd edition won't be out for a while. Anyone got an oldone they'dsell me or have an explanation for me? My understanding is that I can use Hexrod to convert a 4wt rod into a3wt rod, forexample or to visually see the taper difference between say a Young and aHeddon. Is thatcorrect? What's the math involved and/or where can I read about it? Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from webbandersen@webtv.net Mon Feb 14 07:40:29 2000 225.iap.bryant.webtv.net ESMTP id 639BE2C407 225.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA08213; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 05:40:27 - ETAuAhUAooC129Npwu+fnFXXF3l/WPKWlEkCFQDKAYfX5sD3brYzXu7SSDeU4u2cPQ== Subject: Speaking of Norwegians I have a nice 8 ft 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchased from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb from mark_lang@tnb.com Mon Feb 14 08:14:22 2000 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:14:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Various questions... List, 4 RPM. Iconnect a 3/16 dowel rod to it with a piece of tubing and it extracts theblank at 2.5inchs per minute ( a 1/4 dowel extracts at 3.1 in/min). For those of youthat like towrap after varnishing the blank the motor can served double duty.I also here some folks have used a motor from a BBQ grill. Mark bob maulucci 02/12/00 06:53PM >>>I think a good point here is, if you can pull the section out to stick in a drying cabinet, why not pull the section out to varnish it? I think the whole drip tube idea is great, but I tried it with fair results and will only use it in the future if I cannot pull the section. Right now, I can do up to 7'6" sections, and I like the control of pulling them out better than the constant filtering and refilling of the drip tube. Still have mine for the odd 8 footer, but I like the results better with pulling them out and throwing them in my drying cabinet.An important note to this is that I live in a very cold region (Buffalo) and work out of the basement. If I lived in a moderate region like CA, it wouldn't take three days for the sections to fully dry in the drip tube. a nice stepper motor setup.Bob I assume then that there is no heat treating done tothe varnished rod? I am confused about heat treating the rod after it is varnished,perhaps you mean hanging it in a drying cabinet? You can ifyou can get the rod section out of the tube. It becomes oneof those hand eye coordination tests. "Can you pull a 4 footsection out of a 1 1/2 inch in diameter tube without touchingthe sides?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dati@selway.umt.edu Mon Feb 14 09:15:16 2000 08:15:01 -0700 Subject: glued blank I glued up my butt section on Saturday with Titebond IIPolyurathene glue. The application temperature was around 50 F assuggested on the bottle but it had to dry all night in an outside storageunit where the temp dropped below 50 F. Will this adversely affect theblank? Also, the glue foamed up really nice, and I now have a blank with glue allover it. What grit sandpaper do I use to remove the glue from the blank?I watched Wayne's video and I remember he used a file. What do you alldo? Just a side note, this is my first attempt at glueing a rod and my handshad more glue on them than the rod did. I tried to brush the glue on butit was like spreading honey with a brush. It would hardly move, so nexttime I might warm the glue a little. I don't like getting the glue allover my skin but it was unavoidable as I needed bare hands to get theblank through the binder. What do you all do to avoid getting this stickystuff all over? Thanks so muchDarin Law from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Feb 14 10:38:38 2000 Subject: Michigan gathering Would like some info on the Gathering in Michigan.Who to contact et.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Feb 14 10:45:12 2000 Subject: Re: Tapers, Hexrod, and such The graphs, while not labelled,plot bending stress on the vertical axis (increasing toward the top inin-oz) vs. distance along the rod on the horizontal axis (the tip is to theleft and distance down the rod is to the right (in inches.) I hate to sound so anal-retentive about this, but the y axis should beouncesper square inch. If you search the archives you will find a discussion aboutthis between myself and Engineer Ed.Darryl from jbperez@mi.madritel.es Mon Feb 14 12:30:22 2000 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA439F +0100 Subject: tapers & first rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF7721.D4A25DE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF7721.D4A25DE0 Hello to all:thank you very much to all the members of the list, by the advice =received about tapers. Juan = ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF7721.D4A25DE0 Hello to all: of the list, by the advice received about tapers. a great greeting for all from = ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF7721.D4A25DE0-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Feb 14 13:11:02 2000 Mon, 14 Feb 2000 20:10:38 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: glued blank Hi Darin Regarding the temperature, I'm not sure. On mine PU it says the workingtemp. is from 10*C and up.... that will convert to 50*F. Is it FahrenheitYou are using over there? Also, the glue foamed up really nice, and I now have a blank with glue allover it. What grit sandpaper do I use to remove the glue from the blank?I watched Wayne's video and I remember he used a file. What do you alldo? I use a medium file, than I use a rubber eraser as a sandingblock, and sandwith 300 grit paper before heat straightening. Just a side note, this is my first attempt at gluing a rod and my handshad more glue on them than the rod did. I tried to brush the glue on butit was like spreading honey with a brush. It would hardly move, so nexttime I might warm the glue a little. I don't like getting the glue allover my skin but it was unavoidable as I needed bare hands to get theblank through the binder. What do you all do to avoid getting this stickystuff all over? Yes, this glue realy sticks to Your hands:-)Go to a pharmacy and get some surgical rubbergloves, they are ultrathinandwant take the feelings of Your fingers. Hey, they are doing brainsurgerywith them... regardsdanny from jbperez@mi.madritel.es Mon Feb 14 13:25:21 2000 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA49C0 +0100 Subject: to Martin Darrell boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01BF7729.7BD22F80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BF7729.7BD22F80 Hello Martinthanks for your advice, and I will say to you that I am thinking =about a rod of 7 ' because I fish enough in streams of mountain and a =small rod is manageable, the line #4 is perfect since the measurement = The program hexrod already I know it but I thank for your =interest. juan jbperez@mi.madritel.es ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BF7729.7BD22F80 Hello Martinthanks for your advice, and I = The program hexrod already I = but I thank for your interest. =jbperez@mi.madritel.es ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BF7729.7BD22F80-- from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Feb 14 13:55:50 2000 Subject: A Poser???? Here's an identification challenge for those on the list...I only wish Icould offer a prize!!!A rod has come into my shop. The owner wants the rod identified andevaluated. Then maybe some work done.The rod is in 3 pieces, each is 39 inches long. The rod is about 91/2 feet in length. On the Butt section is written in whiteink..."President," and on the opposite side, "Tonkin Cane."The writing goes toward the butt of the rod. There are no other The grip is cork, 5 1/4 inches long. The reel seat is black plasticwith a sliding ring.The Rod is very heavy. The wraps appear to have originally been alight green. (They now appear almost gray.)The real enigma on this rod is...The cork grip and the reel seathave been reversed, making the rod a very long, very heavy spin rod.My guess is that the rod was manufactured by Horrick's and Ibbotson(Pre-WWII.) It appears that someone has re-wrapped the rod, and in theprocess they decided to make it a spin-caster. I have never seen, orheard of H-I making this type of rod.Any information, suggestions or downright guesses would be welcome.John Hewitt. from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Feb 14 14:11:20 2000 Subject: Re: A Poser???? Hi, H-I made a 9' 3piece rod called "President" Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: A Poser???? Here's an identification challenge for those on the list...I only wish Icould offer a prize!!!A rod has come into my shop. The owner wants the rod identified andevaluated. Then maybe some work done.The rod is in 3 pieces, each is 39 inches long. The rod is about 91/2 feet in length. On the Butt section is written in whiteink..."President," and on the opposite side, "Tonkin Cane."The writing goes toward the butt of the rod. There are no other The grip is cork, 5 1/4 inches long. The reel seat is black plasticwith a sliding ring.The Rod is very heavy. The wraps appear to have originally been alight green. (They now appear almost gray.)The real enigma on this rod is...The cork grip and the reel seathave been reversed, making the rod a very long, very heavy spin rod.My guess is that the rod was manufactured by Horrick's and Ibbotson(Pre-WWII.) It appears that someone has re-wrapped the rod, and in theprocess they decided to make it a spin-caster. I have never seen, orheard of H-I making this type of rod.Any information, suggestions or downright guesses would be welcome.John Hewitt. from bob@downandacross.com Mon Feb 14 14:41:27 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: glued blank With a polyurethane glue you can probably wipe the blank off withdenatured alcohol. This has worked when I used Gorilla Glue. That way the sanding or filing is minimal. I use cheap toothbrushes to spread the glue. They are thick bristled enough to spread the glue. I tried to brush my teeth with one, and I bleed for two days! (OK I am exaggerating a bit)I would always wear thin rubber gloves. Home Depot has them 25 for about $2.59. You may have black hands for a couple of weeks now. It is hard to tied off the binding thread, but you can practice on a dowel and you will get used to the gloves.Good luck,Bob At 08:15 AM 2/14/00 -0700, you wrote: I glued up my butt section on Saturday with Titebond IIPolyurathene glue. The application temperature was around 50 F assuggested on the bottle but it had to dry all night in an outside storageunit where the temp dropped below 50 F. Will this adversely affect theblank? Also, the glue foamed up really nice, and I now have a blank with glue allover it. What grit sandpaper do I use to remove the glue from the blank?I watched Wayne's video and I remember he used a file. What do you alldo? Just a side note, this is my first attempt at glueing a rod and my handshad more glue on them than the rod did. I tried to brush the glue on butit was like spreading honey with a brush. It would hardly move, so nexttime I might warm the glue a little. I don't like getting the glue allover my skin but it was unavoidable as I needed bare hands to get theblank through the binder. What do you all do to avoid getting this stickystuff all over? Thanks so muchDarin Law Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Feb 14 15:20:35 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: stepper motor I recieved my stepper motor kit today from H&R Part # TM93KIT2421/A,which is the assembled kit. I also got the power supply. Can a kind list member please tell me how this thing hooks up? I have tried to test it with a 9v before using the power supply. The led's light up, but the motor does not move. What positions should the 4 dip switches be in from left to right? Please help! Aargh!!!TIA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Feb 14 15:27:40 2000 Subject: Fw: A Poser???? John:I have one just like it.I'll quote from the H-I 1949 catalog."President Bait Rod - A sturdy 3-piece bamboo rod for the bait fisherman.Contructed from natural finish tonkin cane. Mounted with tenite reel seat,4snake guides on top, 3 snake guides on 2nd joint, cork grip and decoratedwith green wind. A 3-piece rod with no extra tip. Made in 9 1/2 ft. lenthonly. Packed in cambric bag. Weight 9 oz. Each $11.00."I bought mine on ebay without a picture (not good). It was advertised as afly rod. After informed, the seller agreed to take it back but I elected tokeep it. I thought it was a spinner too until i bought this reprintedcatalog. Mine might older since it has an extra tip. Also, one guide onbutt (missing), 3 on mid, 3 on tip.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: A Poser???? Hi, H-I made a 9' 3piece rod called "President" Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "John Hewitt" Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 2:53 PMSubject: A Poser???? Here's an identification challenge for those on the list...I only wish Icould offer a prize!!!A rod has come into my shop. The owner wants the rod identified andevaluated. Then maybe some work done.The rod is in 3 pieces, each is 39 inches long. The rod is about 91/2 feet in length. On the Butt section is written in whiteink..."President," and on the opposite side, "Tonkin Cane."The writing goes toward the butt of the rod. There are no other The grip is cork, 5 1/4 inches long. The reel seat is black plasticwith a sliding ring.The Rod is very heavy. The wraps appear to have originally been alight green. (They now appear almost gray.)The real enigma on this rod is...The cork grip and the reel seathave been reversed, making the rod a very long, very heavy spin rod.My guess is that the rod was manufactured by Horrick's and Ibbotson(Pre-WWII.) It appears that someone has re-wrapped the rod, and in theprocess they decided to make it a spin-caster. I have never seen, orheard of H-I making this type of rod.Any information, suggestions or downright guesses would bewelcome.John Hewitt. from dpfitch@collins.rockwell.com Mon Feb 14 15:28:29 2000 2000 15:28:21 gatekeeper.collins.rockwell.com via smap (V4.2) 5-20-1999)) id86256885.0075C04E ; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:26:09 -0600 Subject: Re: glued blank Just one point of clarification: The Titebond II I use (for splicingnodeless)isn't a polyurethane. Cleans up with soap and water. The Epon I have forgluing the splines into a blank cleans up with vinegar. If you are usingTitlebond II, see if wiping your hands with a damp cloth helps. Dave bob maulucci on 02/14/2000 02:38:25 PM Please respond to bob@downandacross.com Subject: Re: glued blank With a polyurethane glue you can probably wipe the blank off withdenaturedalcohol. This has worked when I used Gorilla Glue. That way the sanding orfiling is minimal. I use cheap toothbrushes to spread the glue. They arethick bristled enough to spread the glue. I tried to brush my teeth withone, and I bleed for two days! (OK I am exaggerating a bit)I would always wear thin rubber gloves. Home Depot has them 25 for about$2.59. You may have black hands for a couple of weeks now. It is hard totied off the binding thread, but you can practice on a dowel and you willget used to the gloves.Good luck,Bob At 08:15 AM 2/14/00 -0700, you wrote: I glued up my butt section on Saturday with Titebond IIPolyurathene glue. The application temperature was around 50 F assuggested on the bottle but it had to dry all night in an outside storageunit where the temp dropped below 50 F. Will this adversely affect theblank? Also, the glue foamed up really nice, and I now have a blank with glue allover it. What grit sandpaper do I use to remove the glue from the blank?I watched Wayne's video and I remember he used a file. What do you alldo? Just a side note, this is my first attempt at glueing a rod and my handshad more glue on them than the rod did. I tried to brush the glue on butit was like spreading honey with a brush. It would hardly move, so nexttime I might warm the glue a little. I don't like getting the glue allover my skin but it was unavoidable as I needed bare hands to get theblank through the binder. What do you all do to avoid getting this stickystuff all over? Thanks so muchDarin Law Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from ctracy@ckan.com Mon Feb 14 15:32:17 2000 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:35:24 -0600 Subject: ferrule frustrations Hi guys, I'm attempting to put the ferrules on my first rod. I've got a lot ofgood information on how to prep the cane and such and have actuallyglued the ferrules on. Here's the problem. I can't get the ferrule on my tip section to setstraight. I've put it on twice now and it keeps jutting off at a weirdangle. As the subject heading indicates, I am beginning to get a bitfrustrated. So I'm turning to you all for help. Does anyone have any tricks for maintaining straightness when putting onthe ferrules? TIA Chuck from weakley.hollow@gte.net Mon Feb 14 15:52:37 2000 Subject: excel based hexrod on mac i've been unable to get the excel based hexrod to run on my mac. if anyonecan provide insight, i'd appreciate it. tks, gl--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from bob@downandacross.com Mon Feb 14 16:12:03 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: glued blank I think Darin was referring to the polyurethane version. Yes, TB II does clean up with a damp rag. Bob Just one point of clarification: The Titebond II I use (for splicing nodeless)isn't a polyurethane. Cleans up with soap and water. The Epon I have forgluing the splines into a blank cleans up with vinegar. If you are usingTitlebond II, see if wiping your hands with a damp cloth helps. Dave bob maulucci on 02/14/2000 02:38:25 PM Please respond to bob@downandacross.com cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: glued blank With a polyurethane glue you can probably wipe the blank off withdenaturedalcohol. This has worked when I used Gorilla Glue. That way the sandingorfiling is minimal. I use cheap toothbrushes to spread the glue. They arethick bristled enough to spread the glue. I tried to brush my teeth withone, and I bleed for two days! (OK I am exaggerating a bit)I would always wear thin rubber gloves. Home Depot has them 25 forabout$2.59. You may have black hands for a couple of weeks now. It is hard totied off the binding thread, but you can practice on a dowel and you willget used to the gloves.Good luck,Bob At 08:15 AM 2/14/00 -0700, you wrote: I glued up my butt section on Saturday with Titebond IIPolyurathene glue. The application temperature was around 50 F assuggested on the bottle but it had to dry all night in an outside storageunit where the temp dropped below 50 F. Will this adversely affect theblank? Also, the glue foamed up really nice, and I now have a blank with glueallover it. What grit sandpaper do I use to remove the glue from theblank?I watched Wayne's video and I remember he used a file. What do you alldo? Just a side note, this is my first attempt at glueing a rod and my handshad more glue on them than the rod did. I tried to brush the glue on butit was like spreading honey with a brush. It would hardly move, so nexttime I might warm the glue a little. I don't like getting the glue allover my skin but it was unavoidable as I needed bare hands to get theblank through the binder. What do you all do to avoid getting this stickystuff all over? Thanks so muchDarin Law Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from caneman@clnk.com Mon Feb 14 16:12:52 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:09:50 -0600 Subject: Re: ferrule frustrations Chuck,If you have a lathe and have a collett (or a Jacob's chuck) for thetailstock, chuck your tip section up in the lathe, put your ferrule in thetailstock, put on your adhesive, and push the ferrule in place with thetailstock. It will go on straight and perfectly in line with your section(assuming your lathe is set up properly), then just let it set until youradhesive sets. This is how I do mine. I turn my ferrule stations in thelathe, then don't even take them out. Just set the ferrule in thetailstock, apply my adhesive and drive that puppy on home. Straight everytime. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: ferrule frustrations Hi guys, I'm attempting to put the ferrules on my first rod. I've got a lot ofgood information on how to prep the cane and such and have actuallyglued the ferrules on. Here's the problem. I can't get the ferrule on my tip section to setstraight. I've put it on twice now and it keeps jutting off at a weirdangle. As the subject heading indicates, I am beginning to get a bitfrustrated. So I'm turning to you all for help. Does anyone have any tricks for maintaining straightness when putting onthe ferrules? TIA Chuck from thardy@foxinternet.net Mon Feb 14 16:14:43 2000 mailsite.foxinternet.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.5) with ESMTP idfor;Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:12:55 -0800 Subject: Re: excel based hexrod on mac Same here. It opens in excel, and then does some peculiar antics.Someone must be getting it to work properly on Macs.Tom Hardy From: weakley.hollow@gte.net Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:54:12 -0500 Subject: excel based hexrod on mac i've been unable to get the excel based hexrod to run on my mac. if anyonecan provide insight, i'd appreciate it. tks, gl--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Feb 14 16:36:43 2000 Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:36:10 -0400 Subject: Re: excel based hexrod on mac I heard thru the grape vine that purchasing an add on called a PC wouldmakethe task much easier ;^) HEHEHE,Shawn weakley.hollow@gte.net wrote: i've been unable to get the excel based hexrod to run on my mac. if anyonecan provide insight, i'd appreciate it. tks, gl--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Feb 14 17:04:48 2000 (MET) Subject: Re: excel based hexrod on mac Same here...I have the latest iMac, and it want open at all:-(I would be very happy if I could use this program at home,and not just at work. danny----------From: tom hardy Subject: Re: excel based hexrod on macDate: man 14. feb 2000 23:18 Same here. It opens in excel, and then does some peculiar antics.Someone must be getting it to work properly on Macs.Tom Hardy From: weakley.hollow@gte.net Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:54:12 -0500 Subject: excel based hexrod on mac i've been unable to get the excel based hexrod to run on my mac. ifanyonecan provide insight, i'd appreciate it. tks, gl--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Feb 14 17:05:08 2000 -0000 (207.103.136.135) Subject: Taper Files A Request ..... taper files from the windows version of hexrod . I deletedthat portion of the program and they are unavailable on Wayne's site atthemoment. If anyone has the time to forward them to me I would begrateful.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker from tonkin@xtn.net Mon Feb 14 18:55:10 2000 Subject: Polish Hay, One of my old rods is in need of "rubbing out". The varnish is kindaruff & I do not wish to refinish it so, polishing the rod is in order.My question is that a month or so ago, someone mentioned the correct wayto use rottonstone, I believe, with wax or oil. Please, will thatperson(s) repeat that advice. Thank you in advance. from freaner@gte.net Mon Feb 14 19:05:55 2000 Subject: Re: excel based hexrod on mac At 12:03 AM +0100 , 2/16/00, Danny Twang wrote about Re: excel based hexrod on macSame here...I have the latest iMac, and it want open at all:-(I would be very happy if I could use this program at home,and not just at work. I have a 333mhz iMac and just downloaded the Excel version to try. I double- clicked on the icon, and it opened just fine. I'm using Office 98 (Excel 8.0). The data in Hexrod at the moment is Cattanach's 6'3" 2 piece 4wt. I modified the taper to a 6'9" one just to see if it worked, and it did. Claude from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Mon Feb 14 19:51:43 2000 Mon, 14 Feb 2000 20:51:29 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrule frustrations If the ferrule fits properly, it cannot go on crooked. I suspect that yourblank is not straight or the ferrule station is not straight. If youprepped the station by hand, this can be a problem. The only recourse at this point is to carefully straighten the blank.Inspect it closely to see if the male, female, or both, are crooked. Thenheat straighten as much as you dare. If both are crooked, you may luck outand have compensating kinks when the splines in the butt and tip sectionsare aligned. Kinks at the ferrule are difficult to straighten because you cannot getmuchleverage on them, and the heat will loosen the ferrule. They are also easyto miss when you straighten the blank before the glue sets up. In thefuture you should meticulously straighten the blank at the ends before theglue sets. It also helps to turn your ferrule stations on a lathe. Thatway you can check the alignment of the end of section and straightenbeforeyou turn the station, and the station will be perfectly aligned with thesection of the blank in the chuck. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: ferrule frustrations Hi guys, I'm attempting to put the ferrules on my first rod. I've got a lot ofgood information on how to prep the cane and such and have actuallyglued the ferrules on. Here's the problem. I can't get the ferrule on my tip section to setstraight. I've put it on twice now and it keeps jutting off at a weirdangle. As the subject heading indicates, I am beginning to get a bitfrustrated. So I'm turning to you all for help. Does anyone have any tricks for maintaining straightness when putting onthe ferrules? TIA Chuck from morten@flash.net Mon Feb 14 20:43:17 2000 Subject: Re: Norwegians Danny,I do consider myself a Norwegian rodmaker even if I live in Texas. Anda gathering in Norway would be nice.Morten -- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from webbandersen@webtv.net Mon Feb 14 20:52:38 2000 227.iap.bryant.webtv.net ESMTP id 8D60576 227.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id SAA28112; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:52:35 - ETAtAhRkctKSG7WXOHulQoGi5szqGoP68wIVAJkWUXv1myiFjcQraBSE9oURYkHt Subject: Speaking of Norwegians I have a nice 8 ft. 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchase from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb Andersen from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Feb 14 20:59:35 2000 Subject: Re: Michigan gathering Dick,Thanks for the info.TonyTried to send this off list, it bounced. Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Tony, from Wayne Cattanach 12/31/99 7:08 PM Just so that every one will know the Official dates for GrayRock '00 areJune 23 & 24. As usual you are more than welcome to come early asseveraldo - the Unofficial start date is June 17 - But seeing that that isFather's from morten@flash.net Mon Feb 14 21:12:14 2000 Subject: Re: excel based hexrod on mac Danny,I'm using a mac and have resorted to using the web interface hexrodprogram at Frank stetzers site. http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html Morten 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from johanyga@online.no Tue Feb 15 00:35:10 2000 Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:33:55 +0100 (MET) Subject: SV: Speaking of Norwegians Webb.The A.Horgaard Co. made their last cane rod in1983/84. As far as I know,Asbjorn isstill alive. He was born ca.1910 and started making cane rods in 1934. Thecompany'stotal production of cane rods was between 120 000 and 140 000.Regards,Johan NygaardsvoldNorway----- Original Message ----- Subject: Speaking of Norwegians I have a nice 8 ft. 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchase from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb Andersen from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Feb 15 02:58:19 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:57:00 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:58:01 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Speaking of Norwegians Hi Webb Asbjorn Horgard is not active any more, they went out of business a fewyears ago.That was after Asbjorns son took over. I believe Asbjorn have buildingrods since 1930...He also had some sort of contact with Hardys. I have lots of blanks made by A. Horgard, everything from 6` to 14`,bought on a action afterthey went out of business. regardsdanny I have a nice 8 ft. 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchase from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb Andersen from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Feb 15 03:35:04 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:33:50 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:34:49 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Speaking of Norwegians Hi again I have some catalogs from A. Horgard, but they are of course innorwegian, but if You want it I can send You some scans. He made solid-, holow- and double built rods, the holow ons was simplyplaned of the inner apex. And Yes I have seweral tapers from his rods, if any interrest I can postthem to the list.I find the salmomrods, in lenght 12`to 14` the most interesting. regardsdanny I have a nice 8 ft. 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchase from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb Andersen from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Feb 15 08:19:49 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:18:38 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:19:29 +0100 Subject: Classic Norwegian Tapers 9EC870352669739D57428F13" --------------9EC870352669739D57428F13 To all Here You are, for Your pleasure. Good luck:-) regardsdanny Horgörd "Alta" 14` #10 3 piece (3 X 1450 mm)Varnish not subtracted! TIP MIDT BUTT11/2 ,125 60 ,355 117 ,5555 ,145 65 ,380 120 ,56710 ,166 70 ,398 125 ,58015 ,186 75 ,410 130 ,59720 ,210 80 ,430 135 ,61525 ,225 85 ,445 140 ,63330 ,244 90 ,46035 ,264 95 ,47740 ,280 100 ,50045 ,300 105 ,52450 ,315 109 ,54354 ,320 Horgörd Tana 131/2` #10 (3 X 1412mm sections)Varnish not subtracted! 11/2 ,1005 ,12010 ,15015 ,17020 ,20225 ,21530 ,227535 ,23740 ,252545 ,27050 ,28653 12/16 ,296 57 12/16 ,32060 ,33265 ,35270 ,37575 ,39180 ,40985 ,42590 ,44295 ,458100 ,472105 ,496106 7/16 ,500 113 ,515115 ,547120 ,564125 ,583130 ,600131 8/16 ,608 Horgörd H.C. 12` # 9Varnish not subtracted! TIP MIDT BUTT0 ,100 50 ,278 100 ,4385 ,120 55 ,290 105 ,46110 ,135 60 ,305 110 ,48015 ,150 65 ,325 115 ,49920 ,167 70 ,333 120 ,51525 ,183 75 ,345 125 ,53030 ,200 80 ,360 130 ,55235 ,220 85 ,373 135 ,57040 ,235 90 ,387 140 ,59045 ,250 95 ,403 144 ,600 --------------9EC870352669739D57428F13 To all Here You are, for Your pleasure. Good luck:-) regardsdanny Hørgård "Alta" 14` 3 piece (3 X 1450 mm)Varnish not subtracted! BUTT ,555 ,567 ,580 ,597 ,615 ,633 90 ,460 95 ,477 100 ,500 105 ,524 109 ,543 Hørgård Tana 131/2` #10 (3 X 1412mm sections)Varnish not subtracted! ,120 53 12/16 ,296 57 12/16 ,320 106 7/16 ,500 131 8/16 ,608 Varnish not subtracted! BUTT ,480 ,499 ,515 ,530 ,552 ,570 ,590 ,600 --------------9EC870352669739D57428F13-- from webbandersen@webtv.net Tue Feb 15 08:29:43 2000 222.iap.bryant.webtv.net ESMTP id 843A32925 222.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA22662; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 06:29:40 - ETAsAhQfzVBkfwhaW3eQixRAIrRBVWFtIgIUBSyV0SO3zpSHco5viZT3HfXq240= Subject: Ammonia Treating Has anyone on the list tried to use a "retort" using low pressure steamand ammonia to treat strips. Have tried the 23 percent ammonia vapors,in the sunlight in a clear plastic tube. But results have beensporadic. Not something that I would want to try in my basement. TIA, Webb Andersen from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Tue Feb 15 08:32:21 2000 2000 06:32:17 PST Subject: Bellinger Binder for Sale I have a once-used Bellinger Binder for sale. Contactme offlist if interested.__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Feb 15 09:16:36 2000 Subject: Re: Tapers, Hexrod, and such I just looked at this URL. It's not the one where I went into detailabout stress curves. It was a follow up one that was sent later. It'sactually not very helpful.Darryl Darryl Hayashida has a nice descriptions of what stress curves can tellyou. You can find it in the archives at http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9610.260 If you search the archives for "stress curve" you will get a lot ofdiscussion about other points.. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Feb 15 09:32:27 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:29:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Ammonia Treating Webb. I have pretty good luck with the clear tube in Sunlite method. Get avery even very consistent toning, but you do have to set it outside in thesunlite to get the best results... Don't know why, but I tried it in theshop one time, and all I got was a halfa$$ toning job and a sore throatfrombeing in there with it. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Ammonia Treating Has anyone on the list tried to use a "retort" using low pressure steamand ammonia to treat strips. Have tried the 23 percent ammonia vapors,in the sunlight in a clear plastic tube. But results have beensporadic. Not something that I would want to try in my basement. TIA, Webb Andersen from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Feb 15 10:27:27 2000 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA32707; Tue, 15 Feb2000 10:27:19 -0600 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with Subject: Re: Tapers, Hexrod, and such Darryl, you are correct. The URL should be http://www.uwm.edu:80/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9710.461 and a little more at http://www.uwm.edu:80/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9710.464 Somehow I can't find the original in the archives, just a repost,but its the same.--Frank Stetzer On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I just looked at this URL. It's not the one where I went into detailabout stress curves. It was a follow up one that was sent later. It'sactually not very helpful.Darryl Darryl Hayashida has a nice descriptions of what stress curves can tellyou. You can find it in the archives at http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9610.260 If you search the archives for "stress curve" you will get a lot ofdiscussion about other points.. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 15 11:01:01 2000 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:00:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Speaking of Norwegians Webb:An article in the Planing Form page 7 would be of interest to you. Thearticle is written by a Norwegian from Trondheim, Norway about rodmakerAsbjarn Horgard.Jack -----Original Message----- Subject: Speaking of Norwegians I have a nice 8 ft. 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchase from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb Andersen from Danny.Twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Feb 15 12:07:32 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 15 Feb 2000 19:06:11 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 15 Feb 2000 19:07:11 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Correction Classic Norwegian Tapers 7892E2771E518B021DBCC7A6" --------------7892E2771E518B021DBCC7A6 To all I`m very sorry ....................On The "H.C. 12`#9" there are no varnish to subtract, the measurementwas taken from a unvarnished blank!! BTW. I can take the guide spacing on "Alta" and "Tana" also some pix ifYou want. I have those two rods. Horgörd H.C. 12` # 9 TIP MIDT BUTT0 ,100 50 ,278 100 ,4385 ,120 55 ,290 105 ,46110 ,135 60 ,305 110 ,48015 ,150 65 ,325 115 ,49920 ,167 70 ,333 120 ,51525 ,183 75 ,345 125 ,53030 ,200 80 ,360 130 ,55235 ,220 85 ,373 135 ,57040 ,235 90 ,387 140 ,59045 ,250 95 ,403 144 ,600 regardsdanny --------------7892E2771E518B021DBCC7A6 To all I`m very sorry ....................On The "H.C. 12`#9" there are no varnishtosubtract, the measurement was taken from a unvarnishedblank!! pix if You want. I have those two rods. Hørgård BUTT ,480 ,499 ,515 ,530 ,552 ,570 ,590 ,600 regardsdanny --------------7892E2771E518B021DBCC7A6-- from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Feb 15 12:11:42 2000 Subject: Copper Dip tube Hindsight is improving! The lovely, rich deep blue-green shade myHelmsman Spar Urethane (plus a little thinner) has acquired couldprobably have been avoided if I hadn't used a copper tube, I suppose.Also, at 1 1/2" dia., it needed more than a quart of varnish to fill. of size adapters to create a larger mouth at the top. Pro-bondpolyurethane glue did a nice job of attaching the adapters and sealingthem since it foams up and fills the voids between the walls. At 50"length, it holds a little less than a quart, leaving some extra forwraps and touchup. regards to all, mac from listreader@codemarine.com Tue Feb 15 12:54:40 2000 bycodemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Varnish drip tube report (LONG) I used my newly built drip tube (based on posts by other builders--thanks) time last night and it worked great!! (Of course, I've only done one coat--and that oneis still drying--but the logistics were very satisfactory.) plastic 1 1/4"diameter 8-foot florescent lamp protectors and cut them both so that theyare 5 feetlong. I purchased two PVC valves (also 1 1/4" diameter) and glued one tothe bottom ofeach protector tube using PVC glue. I taped the two tubes side by side andthen wrappedthe dual-tube setup with the wire from an electric blanket. Even with thetape and wire,it will be plenty easy to see the level of the varnish inside the tubes.Finally, Imounted the tubes to a 6-foot by 10-inch by 1-inch piece of plywood suchthat I couldsupport the tubes vertically by placing the plywood in my bench vise. Thetubes weremounted such that the valves hang beneath the plywood, leaving about 1.5feet of plywoodabove the top of the tubes. I bought one gallon of Pratt & Lambert Varmor R10 varnish and poured itinto an emptymilk jug (careful--might want to use a mason jar and a funnel to do this).Using afunnel, I poured the varnish from the jug into one of the tubes (valve wasclosed ofcourse) and then placed the jug and funnel directly beneath the valve andadjusted theposition of the plywood support in the vise such that the bottom of thevalve is insidethe funnel (to prevent the varnish from getting dirty or dried out). It tookalmost theentire gallon to fill one tube. I turned the electric blanket on high (it was cold in my garage last night)and leteverything sit for about two hours to reach heat equilibrium. Then, Iattached a longpiece of binding thread to the top of the blank and carefully lowered theblank into thevarnish, using masking tape and pins at the top and bottom of the blank tokeep it fromtouching the edges of the tube. Once the blank was in position, I affixedthe thread tothe top of the plywood support and carefully opened the valve. It took asteady hand, butI was able to control the flow of the varnish such that it dripped out at arate of aboutan inch or two per minute. My understanding is that the key is to drain thevarnish suchthat there is no visible meniscus (is that right?). I intermittently checkedthe flow ofthe varnish and made adjustments to the valve aperture to keep the flowrate relativelyconstant. Once the varnish had passed beneath the bottom of the blank, I furtheropened the valveto completely empty the tube and then put the varnish away. Then Imounted a coffee canbeneath the valve such that the top of the can was above the level of thevalve. I filledthe can with mineral spirits and repeatedly opened and closed the valveand sloshed thespirits around to clean the PVC valve. After cleaning, I left the valvecompletely openand placed the empty coffee can beneath it to catch any last drops ofslow-drainingvarnish. I left the electric blanket on (although I did turn it down a bit) tofacilitate dryingand the blank is still sitting in there, free of dust, as I write this. In caseyou'rewondering, since the drip machine has two tubes, I can repeat the processin the secondtube while the first blank dries. Thank you everyone for your help on this! Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from dhaftel@att.com Tue Feb 15 14:06:35 2000 PAA19067; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1sol2) (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers Subject: RE: Copper Dip tube Ralph, Have you tried PVC? Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Copper Dip tube Hindsight is improving! The lovely, rich deep blue-green shade myHelmsman Spar Urethane (plus a little thinner) has acquired couldprobably have been avoided if I hadn't used a copper tube, I suppose.Also, at 1 1/2" dia., it needed more than a quart of varnish to fill. of size adapters to create a larger mouth at the top. Pro-bondpolyurethane glue did a nice job of attaching the adapters and sealingthem since it foams up and fills the voids between the walls. At 50"length, it holds a little less than a quart, leaving some extra forwraps and touchup. regards to all, mac from mep@mint.net Tue Feb 15 16:12:19 2000 Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:11:45 -0500 Subject: Re: glued blank I use a cabinet scraper or plane blade with a turned edge Mike Palumbo Darin J Law wrote: I glued up my butt section on Saturday with Titebond IIPolyurathene glue. The application temperature was around 50 F assuggested on the bottle but it had to dry all night in an outside storageunit where the temp dropped below 50 F. Will this adversely affect theblank? Also, the glue foamed up really nice, and I now have a blank with glue allover it. What grit sandpaper do I use to remove the glue from the blank?I watched Wayne's video and I remember he used a file. What do you alldo? Just a side note, this is my first attempt at glueing a rod and my handshad more glue on them than the rod did. I tried to brush the glue on butit was like spreading honey with a brush. It would hardly move, so nexttime I might warm the glue a little. I don't like getting the glue allover my skin but it was unavoidable as I needed bare hands to get theblank through the binder. What do you all do to avoid getting this stickystuff all over? Thanks so muchDarin Law from johanyga@online.no Tue Feb 15 17:24:57 2000 Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:24:09 +0100 (MET) Subject: SV: Speaking of Norwegians Jacques. I've tried to find the article about Asbjorn Horgörd in The Planing Formpage 7 you arereferring to, but I've not succeeded. Which issue are you referring to? Sofar I've got60 issues, if it is in no.61, which I've not yet received, I very much lookforward toreading this interesting article. regardsJohan Nygaardsvold ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Speaking of Norwegians Webb:An article in the Planing Form page 7 would be of interest to you. Thearticle is written by a Norwegian from Trondheim, Norway aboutrodmakerAsbjarn Horgard.Jack -----Original Message-----From: Webb Andersen Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:55 PMSubject: Speaking of Norwegians I have a nice 8 ft. 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchase from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb Andersen from Turbotrk@aol.com Tue Feb 15 17:58:26 2000 Subject: scales What does the list recommend for weighing Urac with. I do not have ascale of any type and wonder what is the best way to do this. stuart miller from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 15 18:27:41 2000 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:27:00 +0000 , Subject: Re: Speaking of Norwegians Johan:I'm sorry, it is the latest issue #61 which I justreceived today and yours must be in the mail. Jack -----Original Message----- webbandersen@webtv.net ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: SV: Speaking of Norwegians Jacques. I've tried to find the article about Asbjorn Horgörd in The Planing Formpage 7 you are referring to, but I've not succeeded. Which issue are youreferring to? So far I've got 60 issues, if it is in no.61, which I've notyet received, I very much look forward to reading this interesting article. regardsJohan Nygaardsvold ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Speaking of Norwegians Webb:An article in the Planing Form page 7 would be of interest to you. Thearticle is written by a Norwegian from Trondheim, Norway aboutrodmakerAsbjarn Horgard.Jack -----Original Message-----From: Webb Andersen Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:55 PMSubject: Speaking of Norwegians I have a nice 8 ft. 2/2 rod (4 oz) that I purchase from Norm Thompsonyears ago for less than $50. It was made by Asbjorn Horgard. Do youfellows know if that maker is still active? TIA, Webb Andersen from dickay@alltel.net Tue Feb 15 20:04:44 2000 UAA14453; Subject: Re: scales Stuart, How about a postal scale?Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: scales What does the list recommend for weighing Urac with. I do not have ascaleof any type and wonder what is the best way to do this. stuart miller from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 15 20:46:06 2000 Subject: Re: A failed experiment Steve,I believe you planed too much away on the 4" hollow sections. Also, I don't know what glue you're using. I don't use dams, I tape the strips together, slice the tape, open them up, and plane down so that the inner planed flat is 1/3rd the width of the enamel side. I use Urac and have hadno problems so far.Regards,Hank. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Feb 15 21:49:05 2000 Subject: Re: Ammonia Treating As a Gunsmith for many years, I know a lot of the old gun stockswere darkened the same way as we are doing the cane blanks, with one exception. As far as I know, the Ammonia works by darkeningthe Tannin in the wood. Some woods have more tanninthan other woods, there for, they darken more. There is verylittle Tannin in bamboo, so you have to put some into it. Thisis done by making a very strong tea and swabbing this mixtureonto and into the cane blank. This will add Tannin to the caneand should darken the cane more when you use the Ammoniatreatment on it. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Feb 15 22:05:17 2000 Subject: Re: Ammonia Treating Dave, does "cane blank" mean that you treat the cane in the glued up state?Also, I've been experimenting with reel seat blanks in a closed glass jarwith about 2 tbs of ammonium. I notice that the ammonium condenses outonthe walls of the jar. Does this also happen to the heat treating oven? . .. does the oven have to be cleaned of this condensate ammonium after use. ----------From: LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: Ammonia TreatingDate: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 10:47 PM As a Gunsmith for many years, I know a lot of the old gun stockswere darkened the same way as we are doing the cane blanks, with one exception. As far as I know, the Ammonia works by darkeningthe Tannin in the wood. Some woods have more tanninthan other woods, there for, they darken more. There is verylittle Tannin in bamboo, so you have to put some into it. Thisis done by making a very strong tea and swabbing this mixtureonto and into the cane blank. This will add Tannin to the caneand should darken the cane more when you use the Ammoniatreatment on it. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Feb 15 23:00:39 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Ammonia Treating rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Is the ammonia you use the same as the ammonia used for developingarchitectblueprints? Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ammonia Treating Webb. I have pretty good luck with the clear tube in Sunlite method. Get avery even very consistent toning, but you do have to set it outside in thesunlite to get the best results... Don't know why, but I tried it in theshop one time, and all I got was a halfa$$ toning job and a sore throatfrombeing in there with it. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Ammonia Treating Has anyone on the list tried to use a "retort" using low pressure steamand ammonia to treat strips. Have tried the 23 percent ammonia vapors,in the sunlight in a clear plastic tube. But results have beensporadic. Not something that I would want to try in my basement. TIA, Webb Andersen from martinjensen@home.com Tue Feb 15 23:07:33 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP 0800 Subject: RE: Speaking of Norwegians - apology I recently responded to a request for a meeting of Norwegian rod buildersbycalling them "square heads". It was pointed out to me that this was aderogatory term and I should not have used it. I agree with this and wanttoapologize to all who I have offended. The intent to hurt was not there and Iwill not use this form of talk in the future. Martin Jensen from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Feb 15 23:24:21 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Jasper Rod Winding Thread... Thought the list members might be interested to note that I found 4different jasper thread colors (in nylon, size A). I put a bunch on ebay andhave a special deal. I have Yellow/Black, Red/Black, Green/Black andOrange/Black. I gave up trying to find G/B, Y/B and R/B jaspers in silk butthis nylon is a really good substitute. Besides you get paid $10.00 to dothe deal if US resident. See auctions for details. There's also a bunch ofsilks I just got in and more colors on the way, size 00 silk, Gudebrod.Here's the list. http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=darrell9&sort=3&since=- 1&page=1&rows=50 Please forgive this unworthy capitalist, I will waive all shipping chargesto listers but please remind me. Actually, you don't have to buy a thing andyou can receive $10.00... Same deal is available direct, contact me off list if interested. Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com from plaisanc@pacifier.com Tue Feb 15 23:36:09 2000 Subject: msg.for ed hartzell boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF77FC.BE5A0DE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF77FC.BE5A0DE0 hello again mr. hartzell this is rob plaisance in ridgefield Wa.Iwas =just touching base with you because I am still interested in getting =started on my project.do you have many people at your place on =wed.night? as of right now all I have is the desire to learn your =craft,I dont have any tools yet,could I possibly come to one of your =classes and see whatI will need to get started? If so please E-mail the =directions to your house to me @ plaisanc@pacifier.com thank you very =much Rob plaisance 360-887-3093 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF77FC.BE5A0DE0 hello again mr. hartzell this is rob = ridgefield Wa.Iwas just touching base with you because I am still = wed.night? as of right now all I have is the desire to learn your = have any tools yet,could I possibly come to one of your classes and see = will need to get started? If so please E-mail the directions to your = thank you very much Rob plaisance =360-887-3093 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF77FC.BE5A0DE0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Feb 15 23:47:03 2000 Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:47:05 +0800 Subject: RE: Speaking of Norwegians - apology You know political correctness is making for a very boring place. If Martincan't refer to his own people in the way they refer to themselves I thinkwe're in for a very boring journey to what ever place we're bound for.I myself refer to my kind as Dumb Aussies which I picked up very early onon a trip to NZ when I was in my tee