from stpete@netten.net Wed Mar 1 00:19:24 2000 Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:23:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Yes!! Paul. I really meant to mention that aspect. A machinist friendsuggested that I use a two flute tap. He would have tapped the holesright there in the drill press using it as a means of starting astraight set of threads. I opted to buy a good four flute tap to startthe threads, then switched to a two flute tap once I had about a 1/4" ofthe hole tapped. The four flute was easier to start straight. The twoflute allowed the chips to come out in two continuous curls and I didn'thave to keep backing up to clear the chips. Really fast and didn't bindin the steel I was using (CRS). The brand I used was Greenfield orsomething like that. Rick C. Paul Goodwin wrote: I'll second what Rick just said. I just finished mine and it is a bit of work to make them.However, I think it's safe to say that it's no more work tomake a set of planing forms than it is to make a bamboorod. One thing to add is buy good taps for threading holes.Do not buy the crap (Hanson or Vermont American) thatHome Depot carries. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 8:44 PMSubject: Planing Forms To all Lurkers, Wannabe's, Newbies and anyone else who cares, [good advise snipped] Rick C.Rick C. from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Mar 1 00:32:37 2000 Subject: Re: planing form I have four of the planing forms Richard speaks of. One is a quad formwhich I haven't used yet. It looks good ,but I haven't had an opportunityto use it yet. The other forms are all hex. They work well and are inconstant use ( I made 25 rods last year on these forms.) No commercialinterest other than a wish to promote another Canadian. ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: planing formDate: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 1:35 PM It's nice to hear that some machinists still have pride in their work.Here's what happened to me:A few rodmakers and I bought the materials for the forms ($75 per form)andbrought them to machinist #1 along with Tom Penrose's detailed plans,photos, sketches, etc. Machinist #1 was able to drill the holes and tapthem. He then tried to make the groove. For some reason, he decided tomakethe groove 45 degrees instead of 60. When I complained, he milled thesurface down. In so doing, the form warped quite badly. Instead oflettinghim try the groove again (by now I had pretty much lost faith in him), Ipaid him the $210 and left. I then found machinist #2 who had built a set of forms for anotherrodmaker. I hired him to do the groove, providing him with the detailedspecs. His first attempt at making the groove was terrible. The groovewasbadly off center. I complained and he milled the surface flat in order totry again. His second attempt to mill the groove was now perfectlycentered. Unfortunately, it was now way too deep, allowing you to makeonly7-8 wt rods. The surface could no longer be milled down since therewasn'tenough metal left. I paid the guy his $140 and left. I tried to file theforms to get them shallower with no luck since I was down to thescrews.Finally, I just reached for the phone and bought a set from GrindstoneAnglers. They arrived the next day by FedEX, and are perfect. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mackelvane@aol.comSent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 11:01 AM Subject: Re: planing form In a message dated 2/28/00 8:28:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: metal forms built tosave some money. Most machinist can't seem to build forms tothe toleranceswe need. You can pick up some excellent new forms fromGrindstone Anglers(905 689-0880) for $400 cdn ( about $275 U.S.). Usualdisclaimer applies.I'm just a very happy customer after having suffered throughplaning formhell. >> This deserves a revision. Don't go to a machinist you don'ttrust. There area lot of reputable machinists out there working withtolerances much finerthan those demanded by a quality set of forms. By the sametoken, there arethose who work under the guise of "machinist" who would haveno idea how totool a machine and make cuts that were not preprogrammed.True machining,like rod-building, is a trade that puts a high emphasis onreputation. I'dtrust a guy who works as a machinist in a job shop (where anabsolute premiumis placed on reputation) more than one who works as a"machinist" in amass-production factory. If you're lucky, you might know atopnotch machinistwho will not wilt under the pressure of squaring up the formsand making thetapered bevel. Depending on your friendship, you may be ableto have formsmade at cost plus a cold beverage or two. Otherwise, a goodmachinist knowswhat his time is worth, and it's not cheap. -J from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Mar 1 05:38:54 2000 Subject: Re: Planing Forms I cheated. After drilling the through hole to be threaded I drilled 50% ofthe way through with a clearence hole. This let the tap align itself and1/2the thichness was plenty of threads. After spending a whole evening doing the first dozen holes by hand DavePrice suggested that I use my cordless drill. So I put the 5/16" tap in thecordless drill and set the clutch (dewalt 14.4V). I did the next thirty in acouple of hours. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Planing Forms Yes!! Paul. I really meant to mention that aspect. A machinist friendsuggested that I use a two flute tap. He would have tapped the holesright there in the drill press using it as a means of starting astraight set of threads. I opted to buy a good four flute tap to startthe threads, then switched to a two flute tap once I had about a 1/4" ofthe hole tapped. The four flute was easier to start straight. The twoflute allowed the chips to come out in two continuous curls and I didn'thave to keep backing up to clear the chips. Really fast and didn't bindin the steel I was using (CRS). The brand I used was Greenfield orsomething like that. Rick C. Paul Goodwin wrote: I'll second what Rick just said. I just finished mine and it is a bit of work to make them.However, I think it's safe to say that it's no more work tomake a set of planing forms than it is to make a bamboorod. One thing to add is buy good taps for threading holes.Do not buy the crap (Hanson or Vermont American) thatHome Depot carries. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 8:44 PMSubject: Planing Forms To all Lurkers, Wannabe's, Newbies and anyone else who cares, [good advise snipped] Rick C.Rick C. from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Mar 1 05:39:05 2000 (204.186.33.83) Subject: planing form I made my own form about 8 years ago after purchasing a "machinistmade"form and being disappointed with it's accuracy. I followed directions Ifound in the "Planing Form" publication. I used brass bar instead ofCRS and it turned out extremly accurate. If you don't want to spend the$850 or so dollars on a Bellinger form you are butter off making yourown. It's not that hard. Marty from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 1 06:18:25 2000 Subject: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank virus warning but Igot this from the office of some serious minded people I work with fromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer for a while andthought I might just alert you all to what at first sight seems to be avirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may prevent some problems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Mar 1 06:27:06 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: Fixing Cork and Planning Forms I have used a yellow glue mixed with fine cork dust, with raw sienna andwhite acrylic paint from the hobby store, to get an absolutely perfectcolormatch. My only concern is how will this, or any other glue, dust and paintcombination,react to the normal wear during use. I have not had use on any handle Ihavedone this on. I think I would rather have pits than all of the patchesshowingup after a little soiling. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 1 07:33:55 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:31:35 Subject: RE: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Tony, The Pretty Park virus isn't a hoax. I received it last week and luckilydeleted it without opening. It is a replicating virus that sends itself tothe addresses in your address book. It also causes some file damage Ibelieve according to some people I know who did open the file. It isspreading quite quickly right now. Here's the instructions to remove it: 1. from windows explorer, select the windows directory.2. from the drop down menus: select Tools -> Find -> Files or Folders.3. Enter "files32.vxd" in the text box labelled "Named" . ( without thedouble quotes -> files32.vxd ).4. Press Find Now. If the files is found, LET YOUR SYSTEM ADMIN. know (if you have one). If you want to remove the virus on your on, you should proceed withcaution.If you are not confident, you are best to check with someone who hastechnical knowledge regarding Windows 98/NT. If you are confident, the following instructions are how to remove thevirus: (if you do not understand the instructions below, my technical staffsay "don't try it, find someone who knows"). Removal: 1. regedit search for:HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Classes\exefile\shell\open\command.Remove FILES32.VXD (if present). 2. reboot.3. delete files32.vxd ( should be in either window directory orwindows\system directory ) This web address is how we found out how to remove the virus:- http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/prettypark.worm.html -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 7:28 AM Subject: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank viruswarning but Igot this from the office of some serious minded people I workwith fromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer thought I might just alert you all to what at first sightseems to be avirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may preventsome problems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Mar 1 09:18:50 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: RE: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning This is serious. A friend got hit with this virus, and his computerspewed out email messages for several days, which he could not stop. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 5:28 AM Subject: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank virus warningbut Igot this from the office of some serious minded people I work withfromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer for a whileandthought I might just alert you all to what at first sight seems to beavirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may prevent someproblems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 1 10:39:43 2000 Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:39:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Fixing Cork and Planning Forms Steve Trauthwein wrote: I have used a yellow glue mixed with fine cork dust, with raw siennaandwhite acrylic paint from the hobby store, to get an absolutely perfectcolormatch. My only concern is how will this, or any other glue, dust and paintcombination,react to the normal wear during use. I have not had use on any handle Ihavedone this on. I think I would rather have pits than all of the patchesshowingup after a little soiling. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Another reason to use the Fix wood patch. I like the light mahogany. Itdoes age quite nicely, at the same rate as cork. And it is SO much easierto usethan the glue/cork dust mixtures. Maybe I'm beginning to sound like TA,but itseems to me that more than a few of us (me included!) revel in doingthings thehard way! Harry from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 1 11:08:45 2000 Subject: Guide spacing for 8 1/2' Heddon #17 If someone could provide the guide spacing for an 8 1/2' Heddon #17(Black Beauty), I would be very appreciative of the help. I'm doing anoverhaul on one for a long time good friend, and the guides were screwedup by whoever did the crap revarnish job for him several years ago. Thanks and regards to all, mac from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 1 11:31:24 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Rod marking question My friend's Heddon #17, of which he has been single owner since hebought it new, was revarnished by a real hack several years ago. Ashamefully terrible job. In the process, the original rod markings werewiped off. There is NO question that the rod is a Heddon #17. I amsoon going to be doing a restoration/refurbish on it for him. The question: Should I re-mark the rod while I'm at it? If so, withwhat markings? Is it wrong to give it my best shot at the originalHeddon script and line designation? I certainly have no intent todeceive anyone, but as I said, there is no question whatsoever that therod is a #17, Black Beauty. He is intending to pass it on to his son, so there is not a "resale"issue involved, (at least not in the directly foreseeable future), but Iam interested in the perspective of you guys that have been aroundclassic rods a lot longer than I have as to how best to proceed in suchan instance. I appreciate your comments and advice - thanks mac from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Mar 1 12:18:29 2000 SMTP id HAA13074 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 200007:18:07 +1300 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Paul and others, I cheated even more. When I built steel forms I drilled and tapped the pushside of the form but for the pull side used a clear hole and a tight fittingbolt about 1/2 an inch wider then the form width.I use a nut on the end ofthat bolt to pull the forms together . This seems to work well,the Formslock tight when set and are easy to adjust to .oo1 of an inch . There aresteel dowels every 5 inches to assist alignment. Incidently I used a drill press for making wooden forms but a dowellingjig Ian Kearney At 06:45 AM 1/03/00 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote:I cheated. After drilling the through hole to be threaded I drilled 50% ofthe way through with a clearence hole. This let the tap align itself and1/2the thichness was plenty of threads. After spending a whole evening doing the first dozen holes by hand DavePrice suggested that I use my cordless drill. So I put the 5/16" tap in thecordless drill and set the clutch (dewalt 14.4V). I did the next thirty in acouple of hours. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 1:18 AMSubject: Re: Planing Forms Yes!! Paul. I really meant to mention that aspect. A machinist friendsuggested that I use a two flute tap. He would have tapped the holesright there in the drill press using it as a means of starting astraight set of threads. I opted to buy a good four flute tap to startthe threads, then switched to a two flute tap once I had about a 1/4" ofthe hole tapped. The four flute was easier to start straight. The twoflute allowed the chips to come out in two continuous curls and I didn'thave to keep backing up to clear the chips. Really fast and didn't bindin the steel I was using (CRS). The brand I used was Greenfield orsomething like that. Rick C. Paul Goodwin wrote: I'll second what Rick just said. I just finished mine and it is a bit of work to make them.However, I think it's safe to say that it's no more work tomake a set of planing forms than it is to make a bamboorod. One thing to add is buy good taps for threading holes.Do not buy the crap (Hanson or Vermont American) thatHome Depot carries. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 8:44 PMSubject: Planing Forms To all Lurkers, Wannabe's, Newbies and anyone else who cares, [good advise snipped] Rick C.Rick C. from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 1 14:55:10 2000 Subject: Re: Rod marking question Hi Ralph,On the assumption you're refinishing rather than restoring the rodI'd suggest you ink the butt section in black ink with a very fine point penand write on one flat "Heddon Black Beauty" and one the opposite flatwrite#17-8 1/2 - 2F. People should not confuse this as a restored to originalcondition rod since the original Heddons were inked with the word"Heddon"wrtten in a spiral fashion on the flats. You might wish to use the same asoriginal thread for the wraps which was black tipped with orange.Ray----- Original Message -- --- Subject: Rod marking question My friend's Heddon #17, of which he has been single owner since hebought it new, was revarnished by a real hack several years ago. Ashamefully terrible job. In the process, the original rod markings werewiped off. There is NO question that the rod is a Heddon #17. I amsoon going to be doing a restoration/refurbish on it for him. The question: Should I re-mark the rod while I'm at it? If so, withwhat markings? Is it wrong to give it my best shot at the originalHeddon script and line designation? I certainly have no intent todeceive anyone, but as I said, there is no question whatsoever that therod is a #17, Black Beauty. He is intending to pass it on to his son, so there is not a "resale"issue involved, (at least not in the directly foreseeable future), but Iam interested in the perspective of you guys that have been aroundclassic rods a lot longer than I have as to how best to proceed in suchan instance. I appreciate your comments and advice - thanks mac from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Mar 1 18:08:11 2000 Subject: Re: planing form All, I have to agree - a good machinist can do the forms easily enough. Minewerebuilt in a machine shop (nice big Bridgeport mill) and the results wereveryaccurate. The problem is that, unless you set up to build a bunch of them,the hand work is fairly intensive, and the cost would be up there with orover Bootstrap, et. al. Good machinists don't come cheap. The guys buildingand selling these have jigs set-ups and can mass produce fairly fast - probably even make a little profit. I guess my problem comes with a $800 to $1,000 set of forms - that's alittle steep, and, being a machinist, I can't see where the work went intothem other than a finish treatment. That's a lot of profit. Jim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: planing form In a message dated 2/28/00 8:28:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: save some money. Most machinist can't seem to build forms to thetoleranceswe need. You can pick up some excellent new forms from GrindstoneAnglers(905 689-0880) for $400 cdn ( about $275 U.S.). Usual disclaimerapplies.I'm just a very happy customer after having suffered through planingformhell. >> This deserves a revision. Don't go to a machinist you don't trust. Therearea lot of reputable machinists out there working with tolerances muchfinerthan those demanded by a quality set of forms. By the same token, therearethose who work under the guise of "machinist" who would have no ideahowtotool a machine and make cuts that were not preprogrammed. Truemachining,like rod-building, is a trade that puts a high emphasis on reputation. I'dtrust a guy who works as a machinist in a job shop (where an absolutepremiumis placed on reputation) more than one who works as a "machinist" in amass-production factory. If you're lucky, you might know a topnotchmachinistwho will not wilt under the pressure of squaring up the forms andmakingthetapered bevel. Depending on your friendship, you may be able to haveformsmade at cost plus a cold beverage or two. Otherwise, a good machinistknowswhat his time is worth, and it's not cheap. -J from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 1 18:46:49 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: Guide spacing for 8 1/2' Heddon #17 Thanks to everyone who sent information on the guide spacing. Iappreciate your taking the time to get the information around. mac from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Mar 1 20:02:09 2000 Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:01:36 -0400 Subject: Home made lathe,was: Small Lathes--which one?? If any one remembers me talking about the "Franken lathe" that I wastalkingabout a few weeks ago that I built out of scraps, it LIVES!! Yes theabominationis running and I must say that it does a very nice job of turning ferrulestations and shaping cork! It takes a few more minutes to set up, but hey,howmany other guys out there can say their lathe only cost about as much as adozenbeer ( Canadian beer that is!) ;^)Mind you you aren't going to turn any reel seats or ferrules on it......orcould I???hehehe. Seriously if all you want to do is shape cork and turn stations thisisa VERY cheap alternative to buying a lathe. If any other desperate soul outthere needs a lathe, and is looking for a cheap way to do it, I would behappyto show the pictures. I also have a $2 "Franken binder" and a $10 Frankenovenand a free set of planing forms (free unless you count the endless hours oftedious work to build them). If there is enough interest, maybe I'll put picsofall of them on the list for future generations of tight wads!See it can be done on a poor mans budget. And the money I saved canpay HardyBougle MK IV #3 for my new Perfectionist) OHHHH I am a very naughtyboy!!! Jeff Ferguson wrote: Fellow rodmakers: I am interested in purchasing a small, hobby-type lathe mainly for rodmaking (including, hopefully, reel seats and ferrules some day). I hearthat some rod makers use Sherline lathes, but I was wondering if anyonehasany feedback on the new Grizzly small lathe (it's in the new Grizzlycatalog ??What is the best lathe for the money? Any recommendations/cautions would be greatly appreciated, as well asgoodplaces to buy one! Thanks! Jeff from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Mar 1 22:06:36 2000 E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 02 Mar 200011:18:22 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: planing form Hi Marty,the idea of making forms out of brass has crossed my mind fromtime to time. I assume it would be easier to work than CRS but probably abit more expensive as well. How well are yours performing and do theygetnicked or marked very easily? Does anyone else have any thoughts onbrassforms? Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: planing form I made my own form about 8 years ago after purchasing a "machinistmade"form and being disappointed with it's accuracy. I followed directions Ifound in the "Planing Form" publication. I used brass bar instead ofCRS and it turned out extremly accurate. If you don't want to spend the$850 or so dollars on a Bellinger form you are butter off making yourown. It's not that hard. Marty from gholland@uswest.net Thu Mar 2 01:13:54 2000 (207.225.18.132) Subject: Re: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning This is legit, as has been stated. The following link will give thoseinterested and/or infected the info that they need.http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/prettypark.worm.html youreceive these frantic messages about virus'...they have a complete list ofthevirus' and of the common hoaxes. Greg Holland Tony Young wrote: Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank virus warning butIgot this from the office of some serious minded people I work with fromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer for a whileandthought I might just alert you all to what at first sight seems to be avirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may prevent some problems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 2 07:27:11 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Subject: Cork Repairs Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use. Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give a rod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 2 08:01:49 2000 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs boundary="=====================_5821339==_.ALT" --=====================_5821339==_.ALT Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT thecombinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am going to givethose atry on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic model putty and rawsiennaoil paint for 6-7 years now with no problems. I chose it because, for me,itwas the simplest and easiest way to go. Four or five of my bamboo rods(givenaway) have been in use ca. 200 days a year for the past three years andseem tobe holding up fine. These folks do wash the cork grips occasionally withspicand span, comet (or similar cleaners), just as they do occasionally waxtherods. However, the difficulty with this technique is matching the color.Onehas to be very careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with atoothpick!) goes a LONG, LONG way. However, I am the first to admit thatcorkdust sounds better than using PLASTIC putty (ugh!). I believe that I pickedthis tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite rods when it firstcameout.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use. Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give a rod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html --=====================_5821339==_.ALT Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT the combinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I amgoing to give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been using theplastic model putty and raw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no easiest way to go. Four or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have beenin use ca. 200 days a year for the past three years and seem to be with spic and span, comet (or similar cleaners), just as they dooccasionally wax the rods. However, the difficulty with this technique ismatching the color. One has to be very careful. A little bit of oil paint Morris' book on building graphite rods when it first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: any of use. Am usei give a rod. --=====================_5821339==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 2 08:52:19 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:52:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0 With the really high quality super glues, available on most model shops =today, replacing a bad spot in a grip, with a splice of fresh cork, is a =better repair than any "made to order putty". B making a clean cut with =a razor blade, and clamping a replacement piece of cork very tightly, =such a repair is virtually invisible, and totally water proof. GMA Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Cork Repairs Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (but =NOT the combinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am going =to give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic =model putty and raw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no problems.=I chose it because, for me, it was the simplest and easiest way to go. =Four or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have been in use ca. 200 =days a year for the past three years and seem to be holding up fine. =These folks do wash the cork grips occasionally with spic and span, =comet (or similar cleaners), just as they do occasionally wax the rods. =However, the difficulty with this technique is matching the color. One =has to be very careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with a =toothpick!) goes a LONG, LONG way. However, I am the first to admit =that cork dust sounds better than using PLASTIC putty (ugh!). I believe =that I picked this tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite =rods when it first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have =any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the =use. Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give a =rod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0 With the really high quality super glues, available on most model = today, replacing a bad spot in a grip, with a splice of fresh cork, is a = repair than any "made to order putty". B making a clean cut with a razor = virtually invisible, and totally water proof. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Snider rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Cork RepairsHaving tried various cork dust/glue combinations and = puttys (but NOT the combinations recently discussed on the = and I am going to give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been = plastic model putty and raw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no = way to go. Four or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have been in = 200 days a year for the past three years and seem to be holding up = These folks do wash the cork grips occasionally with spic and span, = similar cleaners), just as they do occasionally wax the rods. However, = difficulty with this technique is matching the color. One has to be = careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with a toothpick!) = = this tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite rods when it = came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & = ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 2 09:20:10 2000 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs boundary="=====================_10514028==_.ALT" --=====================_10514028==_.ALT No doubt that this technique works extremely well, and certainly when youfindsomething that works for your particular style of rodbuilding, you shouldgo the cork. However, most of the cork I get has so many minute blemishesthat itwould take me considerable time to splice each spot (this is supposedlyhighestquality cork). (Or perhaps I am simply anal retentive about suchblemishes).Smushing on glue and cork dust, or wood putty (or whatever) followed by amedium touch with sandpaper is down and dirty quick. I have found that allofthese techniques work to a greater or lesser degree. Over the years I haveconstructed synthetic rods using most of the techniques described, andtheyhave all held up pretty much the same (matching coloration being the onlyproblem). Like rod building, it usually boils down to personal preference(after much experimentation on your own). I say a big thank you to all ofthose who willingly contributed their methods for repairing cork grips. I,forone, learned a lot.J. Snider At 08:53 AM 03/02/2000 -0600, nobler wrote: With the really high quality super glues, available on most model shopstoday, replacing a bad spot in a grip, with a splice of fresh cork, is abetter repair than any "made to order putty". B making a clean cut with arazor blade, and clamping a replacement piece of cork very tightly, sucharepair is virtually invisible, and totally water proof. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Snider rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Cork Repairs Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT thecombinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am going to givethose a try on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic model puttyandraw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no problems. I chose itbecause, for me, it was the simplest and easiest way to go. Four or fiveofmy bamboo rods (given away) have been in use ca. 200 days a year forthepast three years and seem to be holding up fine. These folks do washthecork grips occasionally with spic and span, comet (or similar cleaners),just as they do occasionally wax the rods. However, the difficulty withthistechnique is matching the color. One has to be very careful. A little bitofoil paint (a mere touch with a toothpick!) goes a LONG, LONG way. However,I am the first to admit that cork dust sounds better than using PLASTICputty (ugh!). I believe that I picked this tip up from Skip Morris' book onbuilding graphite rods when it first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have anyofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use.Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give arod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html --=====================_10514028==_.ALT No doubt that this technique works extremely well, and certainly when youfind something that works for your particular style of rodbuilding, youshould go for it. I, for one, will adopt this technique in the future for many minute blemishes that it would take me considerable time to splice am simply anal retentive about such blemishes). Smushing on glue and corkdust, or wood putty (or whatever) followed by a medium touch withsandpaper is down and dirty quick. I have found that all of these have constructed synthetic rods using most of the techniques described,and they have all held up pretty much the same (matching coloration beingthe only problem). Like rod building, it usually boils down to personal thank you to all of those who willingly contributed their methods forrepairing cork grips. I, for one, learned a lot.J. Snider At 08:53 AM 03/02/2000 -0600, nobler wrote: With the really high quality super glues,available on most model shops today, replacing a bad spot in a grip, witha splice of fresh cork, is a better repair than any "made to orderputty". B making a clean cut with a razor blade, and clamping areplacement piece of cork very tightly, such a repair is virtuallyinvisible, and totally water proof. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Snider ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Cork Repairs Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT=the combinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am goingto=give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic model= I=chose it because, for me, it was the simplest and easiest way to go. Four=or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have been in use ca. 200 days ayear= folks=do wash the cork grips occasionally with spic and span, comet (orsimilar=cleaners), just as they do occasionally wax the rods. However, the=difficulty with this technique is matching the color. One has to be very=careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with a toothpick!) goes a= dust= picked this tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite rods whenit=first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: of use.=Am use i=give a rod. --=====================_10514028==_.ALT-- from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Mar 2 11:08:24 2000 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs Hi Don,The system I reported on has been in hard use on my own rods for 10 yearsorso with no problems.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Cork Repairs Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use.Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give arod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from yves@dancris.com Thu Mar 2 13:47:00 2000 MAA06085 Subject: NS tubing List: I'm looking for some NS tubing for reel seat sliding rings, about0.8" outside diam. - i.e., a ssmall quantity. Anyone out there have asource? Thanks in advance. Dave from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 15:21:07 2000 Subject: Franken tools Sorry guys,tried posting the pics for my franken tools but, theywere rejected for size. I will send them individually to all that asked Shawn from rmoon@ida.net Thu Mar 2 16:49:34 2000 Subject: Re: Franken tools Shawn Why don't you go to EBoard and set up a site to post the pictures, Itis free and it is easy and you can advertise the location on the rodlist without incurring any flaming.. Should you have to send these outto even a couple of dozen, you are going to be inundated. Ralph from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 18:39:36 2000 Subject: EBOARD.COM : Shawnsbamboopage eBoard boundary="------------566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2 Guys,here are the photos of Franken tools.The text I will send here. Shawn http://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZ0 --------------566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2 name="QLZ9S4SRZ0" filename="QLZ9S4SRZ0"Content-Base: "http://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZ0"Content- Location: "http://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZ0" EBOARD.COM : Shawnsbamboopage eBoard 1000) {xpix = '1000';ypix = Number(ypix)+40;sb = 'yes';}if (Number(ypix) > 600) {ypix = '600';xpix = Number(xpix)+40;sb = 'yes';}pwindow = pwindow.focus();}// end of hiding from old browsers --> Create a NeweBoardTell aFriend-->Change Passwords-->SendFeedback to eBoardHelp Exit Shawnsbamboopage Go toPost / Edit Mode FrankenLathePIC FrankenBinderPIC FrankenOvenPIC eBoard and the eBoard logo areregistered Trademarks of eBoard.com,Inc.Copyright ©1998,1999,2000 eBoard.com, Inc. All rightsreserved. --------------566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:12:53 2000 Subject: Franken Lathe OK,You guys asked for it! It looks cheesy but seems to work justfine for turning cork, prepping blanks for ferrules and lappingferrules.Parts consist of : 1 electric motor( I used a 1/6 Hp one, oldwashing machine motor will do fine).2 pillow blocks(the pieces withbearings),1 piece of thick wall 3/4" copper pipe, I made mine 18"long that the pipe fits securely in the pillow blocks) 2 brass couplings tofit on each end of pipe(I like the hex on the end because you justdrill a hole in every other flat at center and tap the holes,this givesthree points of contact on a hex rod! screw in 6 bolts of appropriatelength. You will also need 2 pulleys and a belt. I used a 1:1 ratio somy lathe turns at about 1725 RPM .The switch is an option. I used somescraps of wood to raise everything up on a small square of plywood.Put the pulley on the pipe and slide a pillow block on eitherend, then put the belt on and fasten down the pillows. Epoxy on thebrass fittings making sure that they are lined up perfectly with eachother, these are your chucks!!! Bolt on the motor and sit back, crack abeer,and laugh at your creation... Stop laughing when you realize howwell it works!Oh, when you put the rod thru, wrap masking tape or electricaltape around it to preserve rod at clamping points. tighten down (withinreason) I measure with my depth gauge part of my Vernier caliper tocenter the blank. Just keep adjusting till you get the same amount ofbolt sticking out at each spot.If there are any other questions/comments let me know, I'll try tohelp out. I think that the pictures will be fairly straight forwardthough.Sorry about the pic quality, my web cam isn't co-operating.Enjoy,Shawnpictures at http:www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:15:05 2000 Subject: Franken Binder Here is the Franken Binder. 2 pieces of scrap wood, 1 old reel handle, 3-1" pulleys, 1- 3"pulley, 4 or 6 cup hooks, piece of para cord or other And some screws to hold everything together.Shawnpictures at http://www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:17:22 2000 Subject: Franken oven Here's the Franken oven built as per Frank Neunenman's page with theexception that i added pink fiberglass insulation with bubble foil overtop for working outside in the Canadian cold sometimes. This works toowell and I can easily reach up to 475 F before I shut the heat down.This is the simplest oven I have seen, next to a piece of pipe and blowtorch! You could do without the insulation according to Frank especiallyif you live where it is warm.I just use a candy thermometer on a string at different heightsto keep tabs on temp which fluctuates at first until equilibrium. Formore info see Frank's page or ask me.Shawnpictures at http://www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:25:37 2000 Subject: PHY Perfectionist grip Does anyone know how long the grip originally was on the Perfectionistand what style it was? I was just going to use a 6"Western style, but 6"seems kinda short for this rod.Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:29:08 2000 Subject: Drying cabinet temp What temp should my drying cabinet tempature be? I seem to recallsomething like80 degrees F ?Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:36:42 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Franken Lathe Sorry guys should be:http://www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage Shawn Pineo wrote: OK,You guys asked for it! It looks cheesy but seems to work justfine for turning cork, prepping blanks for ferrules and lappingferrules.Parts consist of : 1 electric motor( I used a 1/6 Hp one, oldwashing machine motor will do fine).2 pillow blocks(the pieces withbearings),1 piece of thick wall 3/4" copper pipe, I made mine 18"long that the pipe fits securely in the pillow blocks) 2 brass couplings tofit on each end of pipe(I like the hex on the end because you justdrill a hole in every other flat at center and tap the holes,this givesthree points of contact on a hex rod! screw in 6 bolts of appropriatelength. You will also need 2 pulleys and a belt. I used a 1:1 ratio somy lathe turns at about 1725 RPM .The switch is an option. I used somescraps of wood to raise everything up on a small square of plywood.Put the pulley on the pipe and slide a pillow block on eitherend, then put the belt on and fasten down the pillows. Epoxy on thebrass fittings making sure that they are lined up perfectly with eachother, these are your chucks!!! Bolt on the motor and sit back, crack abeer,and laugh at your creation... Stop laughing when you realize howwell it works!Oh, when you put the rod thru, wrap masking tape or electricaltape around it to preserve rod at clamping points. tighten down (withinreason) I measure with my depth gauge part of my Vernier caliper tocenter the blank. Just keep adjusting till you get the same amount ofbolt sticking out at each spot.If there are any other questions/comments let me know, I'll try tohelp out. I think that the pictures will be fairly straight forwardthough.Sorry about the pic quality, my web cam isn't co-operating.Enjoy,Shawnpictures at http:www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 2 19:57:46 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Subject: Cork Repairs Guys, I very much appreciate the feedback. I will be trying some of thetechniques that you guys use soon. After my first and only bout with glueand cork dust - I never tried filling the holes again. These ideas for corkrepair are great.My thanx, Don Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Fri Mar 3 07:54:19 2000 2000 05:55:44 PST Subject: Heat-strip Oven For Sale I have a 60" heat strip oven for sale. Anyoneinterested please contact me off-list. Thanks.__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from listreader@codemarine.com Fri Mar 3 08:18:26 2000 Subject: Group Demarest bamboo order -- NC I'm about to order a bale of red mark 2" - 2.5" cane from Demarest--but Iprobably don't need all 20 culms. If you're in the Raleigh area (or withindriving distance thereof) and would like to participate in the order, pleaselet me know off-list. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from listreader@codemarine.com Fri Mar 3 08:35:56 2000 Subject: Group Order -- Tony Young Ferrules Many of you have seen Tony Young's beautiful and inexpensive NS Ferrules.Ifyou haven't, here's the Web site: http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html I asked Tony if he would be willing to offer a bulk-order discount to thebuilders on this list. He agreed to provide a 20% discount on a group orderexceeding $650 US. His products are already very competitively priced, sothis represents an excellent value. If you are interested in participating in this order, please visit his Website to decide what you want. The first FIVE individuals to contact me (notTony!!) off-list with an order greater than $100 US will be included in theorder. I'm planning to place the order no later than Thursday of next week.Should I receive email from more than five people, I'll give preference toamateur builders. Obviously, I have no vested interest in Tony Young's company--I'm simplytrying to provide a service to the members of the list (myself included, ofcourse :). Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from dati@selway.umt.edu Fri Mar 3 09:39:03 2000 08:38:59 -0700 Subject: AJ Thramer 444 DX Has anyone made the AJ Thramer 444 DX. I am curious about thisrod's: action, casting distance etc. Also, it specifies a ferrule, can itbe made a one piece rod? Thanks, Darin Law from dhaftel@att.com Fri Mar 3 09:52:54 2000 KAA24646; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: AJ Thramer 444 DX Darrin, I made mine as a one piece rod. It throws a DT4 nicely. It'll also shoot aWF5 without too much trouble. You won't win any distance competitionswithit, but it's a good small stream rod. I can get ~35 to 40 feet with it. I was thinking of making another with a ferrule and comparing the two. Give it a try. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: AJ Thramer 444 DX Has anyone made the AJ Thramer 444 DX. I am curious about thisrod's: action, casting distance etc. Also, it specifies a ferrule, can itbe made a one piece rod? Thanks, Darin Law from listreader@codemarine.com Fri Mar 3 10:14:24 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft ExchangeInternet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Group Order -- Tony Young Ferrules Ahhh, the power of the Web. I now have the requisite number of people tofill the order. If you missed theopportunity, don't worry. I'm sure we'll do it again. Thank you, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Mar 3 10:33:13 2000 Subject: Re: AJ Thramer 444 DX I have made several of the 444 in one-piece configurations and also onepiece and nodeless. I can cast the rod (4 wt) 50-60 feet, but I wouldn'tdare think about fishing with it at those distances. Indeed, I likelycouldn't do it. The rod works quite well from 5 feet to 25 feet for dryfly fishing. Contact me off line and I will e- mail you some photos of therod in use. We're not supposed to do that on the rodmakers listserv. Acouple of local rodmakers have cast mine and are now building their ownversions of the model. For overall fishing using a short rod I also likeTom Smithwick's 5'6" 5 wt. one piece. Now that I have access to a Morganhand mill, I am attempting to build the latter extended to 6' and in a 2pc. configuration.J. SniderAt 08:38 AM 03/03/2000 -0700, Darin J Law wrote: Has anyone made the AJ Thramer 444 DX. I am curious about thisrod's: action, casting distance etc. Also, it specifies a ferrule, can itbe made a one piece rod? Thanks, Darin Law from fquinchat@locl.net Fri Mar 3 12:43:33 2000 corsair.locl.net (8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP idNAA12823 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:43:30 - Subject: Blue Gill Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0 Anyone have any suggestions for a nice taper for blue gills? My =experience is mainly with trout on the dry fly. Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0 Anyone have any suggestions for a nice taper for = fly. Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 3 13:33:29 2000 Subject: Re: Blue Gill Rod One of your trout rods will be fine. I would suggest a moderate action 5 or6 weight. That may seem like a lot of rod for the fish, but keep in mind you will probably be fishing with flys in the 8 to 10 size range, and you maybe rudely interrupted by a bass at any time. slow twitches. Poppers are always a choice. I have had some success with classic wet flys on the smaller fish. They seem to like something with abit of red and white in the pattern, Royal Coachman, Parmachene Belle, etc. from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Mar 3 13:35:24 2000 (5.5.2650.21) Rodmakers Subject: RE: Blue Gill Rod My preference is a 7 or 7 1/2' for #4 or 5. I don't like to go lighter thanthis because the flies are often rather large and I frequently use a deerhair bug with a wet fly on a dropper. There is also the occasionalopportunity to hook a bass while after bluegills. I regularly use a PHYPerfectionist, a Garrison 201E, a Dickerson 8013 (a little heavy), a PHYMidge (a little light) and a Cattanach 7042. I would stay away fromanything less than a #4 and avoid a very fine tip. I don't see very many people fishing bamboo rods for bluegill around here,but it is quite common to see smallmouth fishermen using bamboo rods. Mostof our rivers are rather small and they seem to be well adapted to makingshort casts with large flies. Bamboo rods a more common on thesmallmouthstreams than on trout streams. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Blue Gill Rod Anyone have any suggestions for a nice taper for blue gills? Myexperienceis mainly with trout on the dry fly. Dennis from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Sat Mar 4 09:42:39 2000 Subject: test from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Mar 4 13:23:51 2000 Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:23:44 -0800 Subject: Re: NS tubing David,Try Bob Venneri. His web address is on the Rodmakers page. I got afoot of tubing from him about two weeks ago. Harry David La Touche wrote: List: I'm looking for some NS tubing for reel seat sliding rings, about0.8" outside diam. - i.e., a ssmall quantity. Anyone out there have asource? Thanks in advance. Dave --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Mar 4 14:49:51 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Fred Bohls Fred, if you are out there contact me. Thanks.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from cphisey@neca.com Sat Mar 4 17:24:41 2000 Subject: Any Gene Edwards Tapers out there? To the List,I have just come into some blanks from the Gene Edwards companystock left over when it closed.Just Butts (nicely swelled) and mids.I washoping someone might have a taper or two of the Gene Edwards rods theywouldshare.One of the Butt/Mid is a salmon rod,rest seem to be 5-8 wts.Thanksinadvance for any and all help.Charles Hisey from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 4 18:13:03 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Subject: aging waxed wood blocks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0 I just picked up some maple blocks for making reel seats. I am assumingthatit is fairly green. The blocks were waxed entirely. My question is, shouldthere be an unwaxed side on the blocks or is total waxing OK and abouthowlong should this stuff sit to age.One of the blocks is 3.5" x 6" x 12" and the other block is 5.5" x 5.5" x15".My guess is about a year but I really don't know Martin Jensen ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0 name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Mar 4 18:24:35 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks In a message dated 03/04/2000 7:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, martinjensen@home.com writes: Martin,Depending on how green this wood is, I would say fromsix months to one year, to age it properly. I usually wax the entire block, when I do mine and let them age for about a yearbefore cutting into 1x1x5 pieces. Or you can get some PEG, sold soak it in this for a few weeks. This will saturate the wood andremove the moisture from the wood. Then you can start workingwith it sooner. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Mar 4 18:35:05 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Bamboo All, Has anyone ordered any bamboo from Gary Chan in California? If so whatwas your take on the quality? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Mar 4 18:38:43 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Those are bowl blanks and intended to be turned down to about 3/4 to 5/8wall thickness and then air dried another few months before finalturning. the wax coating will inhibit any drying at all, so you need tomake some decisions. You can cut them into one inch square by howeverlong and soak them in PENTA or you can make your turning squares with ahole drilled through the center, rough turn the reel seat filler, andthen let them dry a while before turning to the final size. You mayloose some to cracking, etc.Or, and this is what I do most often for any small turning stock, Ijust rough cut it to about 25% over size and let it dry out until I needit. Some is good for fillers, some for ferrule plugs, some forkindling.Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, depending onthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Good luck! Brian from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Mar 4 18:45:16 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Tiptops/McCoy All, I am going to host an order to Mike McCoy. I am going to hold it totiptops to make it simpler. This order should be a complement to the onethat Harry Boyd organized. Mike informed me that his tiptops will be 1.50 after his discount forquantity. I propose that people interested send me a check or moneyorder for the amount of their discounted order plus 5.00 to coverpostage and ale, and an addressed priority mail label. I will then placethe order and send individual orders to all involved. If in a hurry I suggest you look elsewhere, as these things usually takea while to develop. If anyone is interested drop me an email and I will determine if thereis enough interest to go forward. PS I have not personally seen Mike's tiptops, but have heard ravesabout them. Ifthey come up to snuff with the guides, they will be well worththe investment. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from lars32@gateway.net Sat Mar 4 19:41:37 2000 Subject: Snake Brand Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0 Mike's Telephone number is wrong in the ad in The Planing Form =newsletter this issue.The correct number is; 503-537-1908Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0 Mike's Telephone number is wrongin = The Planing Form newsletter this issue.The correct number = 503-537-1908DaveN. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0-- from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 4 20:08:55 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:08:52 -0800 Subject: RE: aging waxed wood blocks I may look into the PEG. Is this the same as Penta? Brian Creek mentionedthis stuff. Does this color the wood at all? Hey thanks for the info. I think I will store this stuff at work. I will beless tempted to use it immediately if it is on my desk instead of my shop! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks In a message dated 03/04/2000 7:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,martinjensen@home.com writes: Martin,Depending on how green this wood is, I would say fromsix months to one year, to age it properly. I usually wax theentire block, when I do mine and let them age for about a yearbefore cutting into 1x1x5 pieces. Or you can get some PEG, sold soak it in this for a few weeks. This will saturate the wood andremove the moisture from the wood. Then you can start workingwith it sooner. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from chris@artistree.com Sat Mar 4 20:59:23 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Use the Pentacryl. It won't change the color of the wood. PEG doesn'twork very well with glues or finishes.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Martin Jensen wrote: I may look into the PEG. Is this the same as Penta? Brian Creekmentionedthis stuff. Does this color the wood at all? Hey thanks for the info. I think I will store this stuff at work. I will beless tempted to use it immediately if it is on my desk instead of myshop! Martin Jensen from jswitzer@mnsi.net Sun Mar 5 06:51:50 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160-- from jswitzer@mnsi.net Sun Mar 5 06:52:14 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0 =_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 06:59:19 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Bamboo Two Anyone else who ordered from Cary, could you post your thoughts to thelist and not just to Steve? Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 07:26:21 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Bamboo Regarding Steve's post:Yes, I got cane from the Bamboo Earl. It's Cary I think. The cane was good. It had very minor leaf nodes and almost no mold. I got 10 6' sections and have only built one rod from them. However, the cane seems good. Ieven think it is good enough to build some blond rods from. At about $100 shipped for the whole lot, think I would call it a decent deal.I have not used Demerest or Royer's cane. This is just a comparison based on the Maurer culms I have seen and what I can infer from books and pics. Talk Cary into a small shipment. He is a nice guy. Ask for a "sample" shipment at a good price. I think he will go for it. He normally cuts the 6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each. If you want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what you want.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 5 07:29:08 2000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Two Bob, Steve,I'll be at a show on March 16-17 in Mountain Home, Arkansas. Cary issupposed to have some cane there. If you would like, I'll check it out andmake a report to the list.Cary is an interesting guy. He attended our Southern RodmakersGatheringthis past October. He is humble, intelligent, and witty. I haven'tpurchasedany cane from him, but I do like him as a person. Harry from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 5 07:47:09 2000 Sun, 5 Mar 2000 07:49:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo He normally cuts the6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each.Ifyou want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what you want.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com The cane I have from Cary is marked so that the cuts match up. I don't haveanycane that don't match. All of the 6' sections have the top and bottom fromthesame culm. I have the cane that will be at the Sowbug Roundup, it is alsomarked where the cuts were made. As Harry said in another message, hewill givea report on it.Harry, the dates are 17-18, you can come a day early and getsome fishing in.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from lblove@cableone.net Sun Mar 5 08:39:07 2000 Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Sun, 5 Mar 2000 07:38:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Howdy All,I ordered my first(and only) three culms from Cary. As a novice I cannot judge the quality to others cane, but I was very happy with the serviceand price. He was very responsive to my small order at Christmas timeandthere was no lag time to ship(order today, ship today). All three culmswere cut into 6' lengths and the saw marks matched up with the otherpiece.Though the cane was seasoned, it did make a few snaps and cracks when itarrived here in Odessa, Texas(the relitive humdity is about 15% on anaverage day). that is my 2 cents worth Brad----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo He normally cuts the6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each.Ifyou want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what youwant.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com The cane I have from Cary is marked so that the cuts match up. I don'thave anycane that don't match. All of the 6' sections have the top and bottomfromthesame culm. I have the cane that will be at the Sowbug Roundup, it is alsomarked where the cuts were made. As Harry said in another message, hewillgivea report on it.Harry, the dates are 17-18, you can come a day early andgetsome fishing in.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 08:57:07 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Cary Cane I wonder why Cary said my 6' sections are all from different culms?Maybe I better look again. As for his personality and service, I think he is excellent. Every e-mail I get from him has me in stitches. For example, "Why only 6' sections? You live in a cardboard box or something?" "How is chilly Buffalo, it's 80 here. Have a nice day." I like. I would buy from him again, as long as I am not missing out on how good the other cane out there really is. Any naysayers out there?Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bhoy@inmind.com Sun Mar 5 09:07:00 2000 with ESMTP id KAA19753 for ; Sun, 5 Mar Subject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from anovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line up exactly as they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectly reasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButt section, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod, where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip all to heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful about keeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the order around the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Mar 5 09:25:54 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Culm If you are making a nodeless rod and don't order top quality culm, howmanyrods can you expect get from one culm?Ernie Harrison from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 09:41:09 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Hi Bill:When I built my first two nodeless rods, I paid really close attention that the sections were in order from butt to tip when I spliced them together. I did not worry about the order around the culm like you said. I don't really think this would matter.If I had a 6' section from the lower section of the culm, why not cut out 18 strips and build a butt and 2 tips from the same section? You wouldhave good strong fibers all around. I would not think that you would want thin power fibers in the tip necessarily. For example, if you are using the Bokstrom or Cattanach programs to get your tapers, aren't they figuring that the depth of power fiber is the same throughout the culm? This would be where the taper itself (depth) would change rod action. Wouldn't you want consistent fibers in each section and let the taper be the only variable? It seems like lower sections would be better for the whole rod. This would also make replacement strips easier.My 2 bits,Bob buildAt 10:03 AM 3/5/00 -0500, you wrote:With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from a novice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line up exactly as they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectly reasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in the Butt section, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod, where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip all to heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful about keeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the order around the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 10:13:01 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Hi Bill,It makes sense to me to use the butt pieces for the tip splines. It's a good spline for the butt section when building a rod, then you're ready when theunexpected happens.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from anovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip allto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful aboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the orderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 5 10:23:52 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy I have a question about the extra spline. How do you go about heat treatingasingle spine. Do you put it in the oven with the bundled strips in order togetthe same temper. Will the single strip take on more temper or get darkerthanthe rest. With an incident I recently had, I feel it is a good idea to have anextra spline ready to use.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi Bill,It makes sense to me to use the butt pieces for the tip splines. It's agood spline for the butt section when building a rod, then you're ready whentheunexpected happens.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Bill Hoy Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 7:03 AMSubject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question fromanovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip allto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful aboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the orderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 5 10:44:18 2000 Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:44:07 -0800 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Bill,Isn't this another of those "thousand little things" that is part ofdistinguishing a good rod from a great one? I'm not sure it matters much. But ifit matters even a little, and so do lots of other "little" things, then that'senough for me.I'm persnickety about keeping the sections in the same order theywere inthe culm. Others are not. One of the rodmaking authors suggests using onestrip from each of the six original split sections. That theory makes sense, butso dothe others. I've come up with "my way" of doing things, and it works forme. Sohave lots of you. Experimentation is a large part of the fun of buildingrods, atleast to me. Harry Bill Hoy wrote: With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from anovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip allto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful aboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the orderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 5 10:45:37 2000 Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:45:30 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Bamboo Tony Spezio wrote: He normally cuts the6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each.Ifyou want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what youwant.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com The cane I have from Cary is marked so that the cuts match up. I don'thave anycane that don't match. All of the 6' sections have the top and bottom from thesame culm. I have the cane that will be at the Sowbug Roundup, it is alsomarked where the cuts were made. As Harry said in another message, hewill givea report on it.Harry, the dates are 17-18, you can come a day early andgetsome fishing in.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com OOoh well, Tony -- Whatever the dates are, I'll be there. :-) And I bet Imanageto squeeze in a little fishing, too!! Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from stpete@netten.net Sun Mar 5 10:54:21 2000 Subject: Extra splines Tony and all, When I cut and split a culm, I have in mind at least two rods of thesame approximate length, sections, and weight range(4-5, 5-6, etc.) thatI want to build. I cut the 12' sections (I don't live in a carboardbox!) to the best lengths once I've decided the rod length and the # ofsections (2 vs 3). Then I split the entire culm out. I bought a bundle of Demarest's 2"to 2-1/2" cane about two years ago. Ihave always gotten enough splits to make two or three rods with plentyof splits left over. I take the time to pick out the best 12 tip splits for each rod and thebest six butt splits for each rod (and mids if I'm making 3 pc). Then Iget together the next best 6 tip splits, which I normally have, but if Idon't have 6 left, I'll put a butt strip or two in to make the 6. ThenI pick out the next best 6 butt strips. I now have five bundles of tip strips and three bundles of butt strips.I straighten and rough out all of them, keeping the 'second' selectionsseparate from the prime selections. When I heat treat, I treat each rod(I can handle up to four bundles in my oven) the same and then I treatthe 'seconds' the same. Now I'm ready for two rods and have some extrasin case I screw one up or find worm holes or other defects once I getplaning (which I have found occasionally). Every so often all goes welland I have enough extra splits for another rod. I know cane is the cheapest component in the rod, but why toss goodcane. I have nowhere to store reserved and marked sections of cane tomatch a previously built rod like Garrison did. I use it all. Tony, you know that culm I split at Sowbug last year? I made two 3-pc,two tipped rods out that one culm that I split in a hurry. With extrasplines to boot (not many though). I gave one 7-1/2' Cattanach 5 wt tomy B-in-law and I have the 8' 6wt 'The Force'. Rick C. from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 5 11:32:14 2000 Subject: Re: Extra splines Rick C wrote Tony, you know that culm I split at Sowbug last year? I made two 3-pc,two tipped rods out that one culm that I split in a hurry. With extrasplines to boot (not many though). I gave one 7-1/2' Cattanach 5 wt tomy B-in-law and I have the 8' 6wt 'The Force'. Rick C. Rick,You amazed a lot of people with you method of splitting last year. Iam from the old way of doing things" don't waste anything". I will have toadmit I have made 12 single tip blanks from six culms and still havestripsleft over to make one or two more blanks. I screwed up my first culm sobadthat I only got one rod with one tip from that culm. It only took one tolearn to do it right. In the first few I ignored some minor stains andspots. These were all " give away rods". Now I am looking for the beststrips I can get from a culm but still don't throw the rest away. I plan onmaking some Frankensteine rods when I have time.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Mar 5 13:22:59 2000 Subject: Moso rod I guess since my post about the Moso rod was right atthe time of the "Great Crash" a lot of listers didn't see it.I have been getting private emails inquiring about it. Moso makes a decent rod. It is a bit lighter in color, heattreating technique being equal, it is a bit slower and softerthan Tonkin, but I think with a little adjustment in the taperthat can be compensated for. If Tonkin was abundant andavailable I would use it, but if Tonkin ever became unavailable(as it did about 3 years ago), Moso is an ok substitute.Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 5 13:24:02 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:23:57 Subject: FW: Bamboo I had sent this directly to Steve but here it is reposted to the list: Hello Steve, Yes, a few rodmakers and I got together to split four bales of Chan's canetwo months ago. Overall, the quality was OK. The big problem was that theculms were smaller than advertised and the shipping was more thanadvertised. Few, if any of the culms were 2 inches in diameter. If Irecall, he advertises the culms as 2- 2.4 inches. Also, his site said theshipping is something like $59 for 3-4 bales. For some reason, it cost usabout $150 for four bales. On the positive side, overall, the culms werequite clean, free of blemishes, and very very dry. One rodmaker in our group received a bale that had many culms with slashmarks and bad crushes. We informed Mr Chan who sent us a check for $51as arebate. This, I feel, was a very classy move on Mr Chan's part. Anotherrodmaker in our group felt Chan's cane was better than Demarest's, fromwhom he had ordered in the past. My opinion is that Chan's cane is superior to Andy Royer's for lack ofblemishes and water marks but doesn't compare with Andy Royer's for sizeand heft. I ordered a bale of Andy's cane last year and it was amazing, bigheavy culms. I'd order from Chan again but only if Andy Royer's cane wasunavailable. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TrauthweinSent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 9:36 PM Subject: Bamboo All, Has anyone ordered any bamboo from Gary Chan in California? If so whatwas your take on the quality? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from chris@artistree.com Sun Mar 5 15:06:38 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Tony,I always keep the extra rough cut "leftovers" from previous jobs. When Ineed to heat treat a single or more spline, I mark it/them and bind itup with the "leftovers." Then heat treat. When the "leftovers" start tolook a little too dark I just toss them. Regards,Chris Wohlford Tony Spezio wrote: I have a question about the extra spline. How do you go about heattreating asingle spine. Do you put it in the oven with the bundled strips in order togetthe same temper. Will the single strip take on more temper or get darkerthanthe rest. With an incident I recently had, I feel it is a good idea to haveanextra spline ready to use.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 5 15:12:20 2000 Subject: Drying cabinet temp What temp should my drying cabinet temperature be? I seem to recallsomething like80 degrees F ?Shawn from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Mar 5 15:19:55 2000 Subject: Fwd: FW: Bamboo boundary="part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary" --part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary --part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary Full-name: Eastkoyfly Subject: Re: FW: Bamboo To the list,I got two bales from Imperial Bamboo A.K.A George Maruer/ Andy Royer. The cost was $150 per bale.The first bale I opened was O.K but the diameter was not 2-2.5,Then I opened the second bale and was not pleasedat all,it has many blemishes, worm holes,water marks , growers marks andabout 1"-1 1/2" diameter also three of the culms were crushed. All and all I'dsay that most of the second bale is not usable I guess I'm out $150. I have purchased culms from George before and have been very happy with it butthese did not cut it! --part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary-- from jlintvet@erols.com Sun Mar 5 16:02:41 2000 ([207.172.244.145] helo=compaq) Subject: Re: Culm My $02. I don't think I have ever had a top-quality culm and I can almost alwaysgettwo rods worth of bamboo...however...it really matters how picky you are.There are probably only enough pieces for one really really clean blond rod from a sub-par culm. Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Culm If you are making a nodeless rod and don't order top quality culm, howmanyrods can you expect get from one culm?Ernie Harrison from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 18:30:11 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy I tie the extra spline to the outside of the bound packet of 6 splines andheat treat the whole works at the same time. Note too that the higheststress occurs in the tip section thus the rational for using the buttsection of the culm for the tips.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy I have a question about the extra spline. How do you go about heattreating asingle spine. Do you put it in the oven with the bundled strips in orderto getthe same temper. Will the single strip take on more temper or get darkerthanthe rest. With an incident I recently had, I feel it is a good idea tohave anextra spline ready to use.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi Bill,It makes sense to me to use the butt pieces for the tip splines. It's agood spline for the butt section when building a rod, then you're ready whentheunexpected happens.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Bill Hoy Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 7:03 AMSubject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a questionfromanovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated intheButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of therod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tipallto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty carefulaboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but theorderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 18:47:01 2000 Subject: Re: Drying cabinet temp Here's another little trick of the trade: When drying my own rods coatedwith varnish I use a temperature of 110-120 degrees fahrenheit. But whenrefinishing an old rod that has imperfect glue joint I use a much lowertemperature of about 85-90 degrees F and find that this prevents bubbles from forming at the poor glue joint areas.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Drying cabinet temp What temp should my drying cabinet temperature be? I seem to recallsomething like80 degrees F ?Shawn from channer1@rmi.net Sun Mar 5 18:48:55 2000 Subject: Re: Culm Jon Lintvet wrote: My $02. I don't think I have ever had a top-quality culm and I can almost alwaysgettwo rods worth of bamboo...however...it really matters how picky you are.There are probably only enough pieces for one really really clean blondrod from a sub-par culm. Jon M. Lintvet Here's another 2c's worth from me, I got into flaming my cane becauseout of 3 suppliers i tried ,I couldn't get one rod's worth of stripsclean enough to make a blond rod, now I like the looks of a flamed rodmuch better and i think the flamed culms are easier to split, so all Ilook for is power fiber, as long as there is deep enough fiber I amhappy with what I get. John from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 5 20:28:19 2000 Subject: varnishing When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 5 20:49:01 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Franken Lathe Just an update,I thought that I should inform everyone of a mod Iwould suggest for anYone considering making this creature. I would extendthe plywood base out about a foot or so and put an adjustable supportthere to stabilize the end of the rod. Perhaps even one at each end.Itwouldn't take much just something to stop the rod from oselating toomuchbecause the oselations snowball very quickly! I detected this teethingproblem when my PHY Perfectionist almost beat itself (and me along withit)to death while I was turning the cork grip tonight! Maybe a slow speed forturning the cork would be good too!It is a good idea to check the set screws in the chuckoften because they do back off sometimes.All in all though once I stabilized the butt end the oleFranken lathe did a superb job of turning the cork. It passed all threetests. With a few minor adjustments I think this is a very good option forthe builder on a budget! Maybe once I get this sportsman's show out of theway I will sit down and draw out some plans and take pictures of the newimproved lathe to post! I will have access to a digital camera by then tooso hopefully the pics will be better than what I posted!Happytinkering, ShawnShawn Pineo wrote: OK,You guys asked for it! It looks cheesy but seems to work justfine for turning cork, prepping blanks for ferrules and lappingferrules.Parts consist of : 1 electric motor( I used a 1/6 Hp one, oldwashing machine motor will do fine).2 pillow blocks(the pieces withbearings),1 piece of thick wall 3/4" copper pipe, I made mine 18"long that the pipe fits securely in the pillow blocks) 2 brass couplings tofit on each end of pipe(I like the hex on the end because you justdrill a hole in every other flat at center and tap the holes,this givesthree points of contact on a hex rod! screw in 6 bolts of appropriatelength. You will also need 2 pulleys and a belt. I used a 1:1 ratio somy lathe turns at about 1725 RPM .The switch is an option. I used somescraps of wood to raise everything up on a small square of plywood.Put the pulley on the pipe and slide a pillow block on eitherend, then put the belt on and fasten down the pillows. Epoxy on thebrass fittings making sure that they are lined up perfectly with eachother, these are your chucks!!! Bolt on the motor and sit back, crack abeer,and laugh at your creation... Stop laughing when you realize howwell it works!Oh, when you put the rod thru, wrap masking tape or electricaltape around it to preserve rod at clamping points. tighten down (withinreason) I measure with my depth gauge part of my Vernier caliper tocenter the blank. Just keep adjusting till you get the same amount ofbolt sticking out at each spot.If there are any other questions/comments let me know, I'll try tohelp out. I think that the pictures will be fairly straight forwardthough.Sorry about the pic quality, my web cam isn't co-operating.Enjoy,Shawnpictures at http:www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from jczimny@dol.net Sun Mar 5 20:56:06 2000 Subject: Re: varnishing Shawn,I think it wise to tape the ferrule. Varnish build-up on the welt is ugly.If you're varnishing with the wraps on use thin, automotive detailing taperight at the end of the thread wrap on the ferrule. If varnishing unwraped,just tape right past the end of the splits. Any mess here will be coveredbythe ferrule wraps. Any leakage is easily cleaned up within 24 hours with arag soaked in paint thinner.John Z Shawn Pineo wrote: When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from cadams46@juno.com Sun Mar 5 21:06:57 2000 22:06:08 EST Subject: Tripart 580 Does anyone know anything about a reel labeled Tripart 580. The Mrs. just came across it in a box of junk she bought at an auction. Lookslike a bait casting reel. Says something on the bottom about MEISSELBACH& BRO. Newark, N.J. USA 80 Yards. It seem to be missing somestuff on the side opposite the crank. Would be interested to know a bitabout this reel. ThanksCR Adams from caneman@clnk.com Sun Mar 5 21:45:36 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:42:24 -0600 Subject: Gary Howells Does anyone know what Gary Howells used for ferrule material? I justpickedup a GH Howells rod and the ferrules do NOT appear to be Nickel Silver.Just curious... By the way, a very very fine rod. 8 years old and neverfished. Looks like it was turned out yesterday. Later,Bob from georgewb@pacbell.net Sun Mar 5 22:19:16 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCtermann_Swiss_silk_thread?= boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0 Has anyone used G=FCtermann Swiss silk thread? I just ran across a =source for it and wondered if it was worthwhile for wrapping bamboo =rods. TIA,George ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0 Has anyone used GütermannSwiss = worthwhile for wrapping bamboo rods. TIA,George ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 5 22:22:15 2000 Subject: Re: Filler for less than ideal cork To all,I fill the small "gouges" with color preservative and sand the grip like the very devil-it ain't perfect but seems to last as long as any othermethod I've seen.Regards,Hank. from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 22:35:14 2000 Subject: Re: varnishing Hi Shawn,What works best for me is to wrap the female ferrule entirely withmaskingtape and twist off the end for a seal. The same for the male ferrule. Thetrick is to get the masking tape wound on evenly right next to the wrapthreads. After the rod is dry it's easy to peel off the tape and clean it upwith mineral spirits. I always hang the butt section from the reel seatwiththe ferrule down and the tip section from the tip top with the ferruledown.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: varnishing When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 22:57:31 2000 Subject: Re: Tripart 580 Hi Chase,The Tripart 580 was a Meisselbach bait casting reel built with a one pieceframe, single handle on the crank and a quick take down device built about1910. Meisselbach also built another one called the "Takeapart" during thesame period. from what I can find they are not highly valued.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tripart 580 Does anyone know anything about a reel labeled Tripart 580. The Mrs.just came across it in a box of junk she bought at an auction. Lookslike a bait casting reel. Says something on the bottom aboutMEISSELBACH& BRO. Newark, N.J. USA 80 Yards. It seem to be missing somestuff on the side opposite the crank. Would be interested to know a bitabout this reel. ThanksCR Adams from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Mar 6 04:51:49 2000 (204.186.33.24) Subject: Bamboo philosophy The reason the butt cane is used for the butt section and the tip caneis used for the tip section is the dimension of the power fibers of thebutt cane is thicker and is required in the butt of the rod which has alarger diameter You can use it for the tip but most will be planed awayand what you end up with you could have gotten with the tip of the culm.Unless you are making a surf, boat, or heavy Salmon rod it doesn't makeany sense to use the butt for tips. Marty from caneman@clnk.com Mon Mar 6 06:58:50 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:55:44 -0600 Subject: Thanks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20 Thanks to all who responded to the Howells rod question. May see if I =can find some of this stuff and play around with it a bit. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20 can find some of this stuff and play around with it a bit. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20-- from bhoy@inmind.com Mon Mar 6 08:01:46 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Thanks to everyone who responded with their thoughts about strip placement/bamboo philosphy. Learn by doing. Thanks, Bill Hoy Bill Hoy from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 6 09:16:46 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, depending onthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doable athome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rod oventodry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Mar 6 09:17:43 2000 KAA19334; Subject: Re: Bamboo I received a bale from Gary (the Bamboo Earl) before the holidays. WhileI am new to bamboo, the culm were all of uniform colour and diameter(~2-2.25"). I did buy his highest grade. There were NO insect holes,water marks, mold or cutters marks. He cut the pieces into 6' lengths andmarked the sections so I could (and did check) reconstruct each 12' culm.Delivery fast (arriving ~10 days from the order and cost only $31 fromCalifornia to North Carolina). The highest quality bale, with shipping,was $204 U.S.$. (no financial interest palaver included here).I am very pleased and would order from him again in a second.dws. Steve Trauthwein wrote: All, Has anyone ordered any bamboo from Gary Chan in California? If so whatwas your take on the quality? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 6 09:45:58 2000 Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:45:47 +0800 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do but youcan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats me toit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, depending onthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doable athome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rod oventodry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Mar 6 10:27:10 2000 (MET) Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part I've heard of the norwegian "cooper maker" (right term? the ones whomakesoak barrel to liqueur, whiskey, cognac etc.)have cut the cost in the manufacture, by drying the wood in a monstermicrowave oven. So I guess it will work...... danny I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do but youcan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats me toit. Tony --MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part Re: aging waxed wood blocks I've heard of the norwegian "cooper maker" (right term?the o=nes who makes oak barrel to liqueur, whiskey, cognac etc.) have cut the cost in the manufacture, by drying the wood in a monstermicro=wave oven. So I guess it will work...... danny you me=to it. --MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part-- from bhoy@inmind.com Mon Mar 6 10:38:42 2000 Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:45:45 -0500 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in a special oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved wood would invite checking. bill hoy At 10:55 AM 3/6/00, Tony Young wrote:I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do but youcan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats me toit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, dependingonthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doable athome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rodoven todry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ Bill Hoy from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Mar 6 10:56:47 2000 Subject: Waxed Blocks As someone else pointed out, a completely waxed block of wood will havea real hard time drying out. If you have the time to airdry it (thinkin years) simply remove the wax from everywhere but about 1 inch fromthe end grain and the end grain itself. This is the spot wherechecking/splitting is likely to occur. If you'd like to speed up thedrying there are a variety of methods that amateur woodworkers use. The microwave works, but is likely to result in cellular damage as thecells split under the pressure of their own steam. Don't really knowhow this will effect the appearance or performance of the wood. You can use the oven, think about low temps (200 or 250 degrees) forseveral hours. I'm told this will really stink up the house. Wood doesnot smell like food when it cooks. If you have a finish drying cabinet that reaches temps in excess of 100degrees that will also substantially speed things up. Just leave it on,with the wood in it indefinitely. It would be worthwhile to weigh thewood if you have an accurate scale. This will allow you to periodicallycheck the weight, and you should see pretty fast progress as themoisture leaves. When the rate of drying slows down to almost nothing,i.e., when your scale shows leveling of the weight over a period of afew days, then you've got it pretty dry. Moisture meters are widelyavailable for a couple hundred bucks if you want to go that way. A lot of woodworkers build impromptu kilns. Useing a dehumidifier whichboth dries and heats the air and a plastic tarp you can cover a stack ofwood, turn the dehumidifier on and let it go. Amazing how hot it getsunder that tarp. Be careful that the dehumidifier does not get itsintake or outlets blocked by the tarp. This really only works forlarger volumes of wood than you're talking about. Finally, a lot of serious woodturners prefer to turn green wood. Itmills much easier. The turned piece is then stored in a paper grocerysack which allows air exchange but slows it down. YOu will lose a fewpieces, but most will make it. Final turning/polishing is accomplishedafter the piece is dry. Good luck. I'm thinking of turning a few spacers myself, without alathe, by rigging up a drill clamped to a bench. Would love to know howyours turn out. from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Mar 6 10:58:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:58:54 -0600 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks The Best of the Planing Form article states that the Pentacryl stuff doesitvery quickly, without cracking. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in aspecial oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved woodwould invite checking. bill hoy At 10:55 AM 3/6/00, Tony Young wrote:I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do butyoucan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats metoit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, dependingonthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doableathome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rodoven todry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ Bill Hoy from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 6 11:54:19 2000 Subject: Newbie needs help Atlanta List Members: A friend who lives in your area wants to startmaking bamboo fly rods. He took a rodmaking class quite some time back but hasbeen unable to persue the craft until recently. He would like either a mentor or at least a little help starting the process. If anyone in the Atlanta area would help, it would be much appreciated. If so, please e-mail me off list so that I may get you contacted. Best regards, Richard Tyree from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Mar 6 13:22:26 2000 SMTP id IAA13453; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:22:03 +1300 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Kiln drying of timber can be a quite complex process , which vary's fordifferent timber of different densities. Traditionally kiln drying involves the introduction of steam and heat intothe kiln and the gradual reduction of humidity in the kiln over 5 -10 days .The keeps all the timber at the same huminity and prevents splits andwarps.Drying rapidly from the outside will create problems. There are new types of Kilns which use a microwave process. I am notsurehow they work , and i suspect that they have to be built for only onetimberdensity range. The major problem with drying timber is to keep themoisturecontent constant through the timber as the moisture is reduced. It ismoisture differences across a piece of timber which causes splits andtwists. The more dense the timber the more difficult it is to preventsplitting. The use of wax etc on air dried sticks is intended to prevent theexterior of the stick drying much quicker then the centre. and I am not too sure of the relevence of this interesting information..(smile) Ian Kearney At 11:00 AM 6/03/00 -0500, Bill Hoy wrote:My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in a special oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved wood would invite checking. bill hoy from RSilver000@aol.com Mon Mar 6 13:41:05 2000 Subject: sealey rod Help! I have an Edgar Sealey bamboo rod, 3 piece 2 tip that I don't know what weight line to use. It says Brownie fly rod, No. 2 action. On the bag it says "octopus" fishing rod, Edgar Sealey and Sons, Reddich, England. In addition there are what look like mildrum srmc guides along the entirelength of the rod, instead of snake guides. I want to use the rod for fishing, should I leave as is or switch to conventional guides? Thanks guys, I amnew to this and in the process of trying to build my first bamboo rod, but want to also use what I've got already. Rob from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Mar 6 13:55:24 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks michael@wugate.wustl.edu List,As some of you know I build guns. I have cut or had someone else cut mywood slabs 2 1/2 "s thick and then we wax the ends. we then lay this wood up in abarn someplace or a building that has air moving thru it. We stack the wood sometimes 8 to 10 pieces high depending on how much we have, we leavean air space in between the wood of about 3"s so air will move around it. Nowmost of this wood we dry this way for a minimum of 3years and 5 if possible. Now I am not talking little slabs here I am talking of slabs that are 6-8 ft by 2 1/2 - 3 ft by 2 1/2"s. These are trees we are talking about. If you wantto try this yourself on a smaller scale plan on waiting a minimum of a year little pieces that you can use for reelseats. Don't forget to wax the end grains either or it will split just like your bamboo without a check splitin it. Bret from martinjensen@home.com Mon Mar 6 15:35:39 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Subject: RE: aging waxed wood blocks I want to thank the list for all the info I got on this subject.I have decided to cut the fully waxed pieces up in 1x1x5 pieces and soak inpentacryl for a week or so. Then dry for a few weeks and turn one and seewhat happens. I have a stock of about 25 previously made so I can turnjustone and see how it does over a little time. Regardless, it will be a littletime before I really need to break into this supply Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks The Best of the Planing Form article states that the Pentacryl stuff doesitvery quickly, without cracking. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in aspecial oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved woodwould invite checking. bill hoy At 10:55 AM 3/6/00, Tony Young wrote:I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do butyoucan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats metoit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, dependingonthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doableathome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rodoven todry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ Bill Hoy from rhd360@maine.edu Mon Mar 6 16:12:02 2000 Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Mon, 06Mar 2000 17:11:24 EST Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Great question Martin and interesting responses. I cut cherry from mywoodloton occasion for reel seats and ferrule plugs. The use is important becauseitmeans that I'm rough cutting green wood into relatively small blocks so intheend the drying is quite a bit quicker than say if I were cutting largerstock. (Rough cut blocks are about 1.5" in thickness by about 12" in length thelater use and relatively small to facilitate drying.) I let the blocks airdry thinneron the end grain only with a bit of over lap on the sides. This mixture wassuggested by a list member some time ago. It works fine and definatelyreduceschecking but it doesn't entirely eliminate it. I've had some blocksdrying inmy house (on the top of bk shelfs where nobody notices and the aircirculationis fine) for a couple of years now but I would guess one year would beenough.--Bob. At 04:12 PM 3/4/00 -0800, Martin Jensen wrote:I just picked up some maple blocks for making reel seats. I am assumingthatit is fairly green. The blocks were waxed entirely. My question is, shouldthere be an unwaxed side on the blocks or is total waxing OK and abouthowlong should this stuff sit to age.One of the blocks is 3.5" x 6" x 12" and the other block is 5.5" x 5.5" x15".My guess is about a year but I really don't know Martin Jensen Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Mar 6 16:36:26 2000 (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id HAA02829; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:36:21+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3)with SMTP id HAA01392; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:36:20 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Moso rod Darryl, Have you completed your moso rod? Congraturation.How do you like it? Please let us know your impression orany specifics in making it a little more, if any. Yes, when Tonkin gets unavailable, there are a bunch of alternative caneslike, Moso, Madake, Hachiku and others. vist the URL below(English page). This dealer is merely a bamboowholeseller in general not the one forrod making. Visit them when you have a chance to visit Kyoto forsightseeing. http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/ Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 -----Original Message-----$B:9=P?M(B : DNHayashida@aol.com $B08@h(B : rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu $BF|;~(B : 2000$BG/(B3$B7n(B6$BF|(B 4:29$B7oL>(B : Moso rod I guess since my post about the Moso rod was right atthe time of the "Great Crash" a lot of listers didn't see it.I have been getting private emails inquiring about it. Moso makes a decent rod. It is a bit lighter in color, heattreating technique being equal, it is a bit slower and softerthan Tonkin, but I think with a little adjustment in the taperthat can be compensated for. If Tonkin was abundant andavailable I would use it, but if Tonkin ever became unavailable(as it did about 3 years ago), Moso is an ok substitute.Darryl from chris@artistree.com Mon Mar 6 16:36:35 2000 Subject: PENTACRYL Here is a copy of the Planing Form article for those that were interested. PENTACRYL by Chris Wohlford, San Mateo, CA One of the headaches of turning your own reel seats from various woodsespecially burled wood is the tendency for the material to crack andcheck. I recently expressed my frustration to some friends of mine whoturnburled woods into beautiful artistic bowls on the lathe. Theyrecommended I try a new product called PENTACRYL. The company whomanufactures this product first developed it for use in museums whichneeded a way to stabilize and preserve water logged wood. It probably should be first stated that wood treated with PENTACRYL isnotsame as wood that has been impregnated with an acrylic or othervarious solvent based resin formulations. These are usually done within avacuum and produce a stable, water proof and plastic looking endproduct. For the average rod builder the costs for this kind of setup areprohibitive and can be potential dangerous to operate. PENTACRYL, on the other hand is safe, non-toxic, fast working and easy touse. The end result is a stabilized piece of wood that can be turned orstored without fear of cracking or checking. It does not change the colorof the wood and it can be finished with conventional finishes and gluedwith conventional glues. The only two downfalls I have found are: 1) it'snot completely waterproof so your real seat treated with PENTACRYL willneed a finish such as urethane varnish. 2) it will not fill in holes orsoft spots found in some wood pieces. So you need to pick (or fill) yourwood carefully. The best way to use PENTACRYL is to immerse the wood turning block inthesolution for 24 hours for each inch in length. For a four inch long woodreal seat block, four days should just about do it. The ideal room temp.range while soaking should between 60Ÿ - 70Ÿ F. The container used canbeplastic or fiberglass but not made of metal. PENTACRYL actually works bycapillary action so the wetter or greener the wood the faster and moreeffectively it works. The amount of time needed for absorption also canvary depending on the grain, moisture content and type of wood you areusing so it's best to experiment with a few pieces before committing todoing a large quantity. After removing the wood from the PENTACRYL solution it needs to be lefttodry. PENTACRYL actually displaces the moisture (water molecules) in thewood. If the wood is left to dry on it's own with an ideal room temp of 60Ÿ- 70Ÿ F and relative humidity of 50%-55%, the piece could be dry within 2to 3 weeks. Longer for larger pieces. Another method of drying is to let itdry for a few days, then place the pieces in a cardboard box and put in thefreezer. Yes, the freezer. The water molecules will evaporate in thefreezer and this is the recommend procedure for wildly grained woods. Turning the wood on the lathe is fairly easy as the PENTACRYL actuallytends to lubricate the wood turning. Before applying a finish make sure thewood has thoroughly dried and most importantly wipe down the surfacewith asolvent such as mineral spirits or acetone. Pieces treated withPENTACRYLaccept just about every finish available including urethanes, varnishes andtung oil. It can even can be stained. I spoke with the folks who manufacture PENTACRYL and was supprized tolearnthat they were all ready aware that people might be using their products resin formulation that would also be waterproof. The biggest hurdle beingthat most water proof formulations would need a solvent based resin towork. Most of which are classified as hazardous materials. Creating aproduct that is safe for the general public to use and that will satisfyall the various individual state's environmental regulation's will not benot an easy task. I wish them luck. If you wish to contact the manufacture and/or purchase PENTACRYL theycan be reached at:Preservation Solutions1060 Bunker Hill RoadJefferson ME 04348phone: (207) 563-5414email: knobloch@lincoln.midcoast.com PENTACRYL can also be purchased through:Packard WoodworksPO. Box 718Tryon, NC 28782phone: (800) 683-8876 P.S. - Cost is approx. $15 for a quart, $45 a gallon. Best Regards,Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 6 16:39:07 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP ;Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:39:02 +0000 Subject: Re: varnishing If you dip tip end first you don't have to mask the male ferrule you justtape a hook to the male. Jack-----Original Message----- Subject: varnishing When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 6 17:17:41 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP ;Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:17:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Moso rod If you want to see nodes take a look at the tortoise shell bamboo at theKyoto site! Jack -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Moso rod Darryl, Have you completed your moso rod? Congraturation.How do you like it? Please let us know your impression orany specifics in making it a little more, if any. Yes, when Tonkin gets unavailable, there are a bunch of alternative caneslike, Moso, Madake, Hachiku and others. vist the URL below(English page). This dealer is merely a bamboowholeseller in general not the one forrod making. Visit them when you have a chance to visit Kyoto forsightseeing. http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/ Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 -----Original Message-----$B:9=P?M(B : DNHayashida@aol.com $B08@h(B : rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu $BF|;~(B : 2000$BG/(B3$B7n(B6$BF|(B 4:29$B7oL>(B : Moso rod I guess since my post about the Moso rod was right atthe time of the "Great Crash" a lot of listers didn't see it.I have been getting private emails inquiring about it. Moso makes a decent rod. It is a bit lighter in color, heattreating technique being equal, it is a bit slower and softerthan Tonkin, but I think with a little adjustment in the taperthat can be compensated for. If Tonkin was abundant andavailable I would use it, but if Tonkin ever became unavailable(as it did about 3 years ago), Moso is an ok substitute.Darryl from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Mar 6 19:50:07 2000 E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 07 Mar 200009:49:01 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) Rodmakers Rodmakers Rodmakers Subject: RE: Gutermann Swiss silk thread Hi George,I tried some white Gutermann silk thread for a clear repairwrap and found it to be really fuzzy, as well as weak. There is muchbetterstuff around and, when you look at the cost of silk in the overall cost ofbuilding a rod, it makes no sense to cut corners. I wouldn't touchGutermann again if you paid me. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Gutermann Swiss silk thread Has anyone used Gutermann Swiss silk thread? I just ran across a sourceforit and wondered if it was worthwhile for wrapping bamboo rods. TIA,George from tklein@amgen.com Tue Mar 7 15:43:05 2000 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Moso rod Actually, I was impressed with the square bamboo! (ought to make quad construction a snap)---Tim ----------From: Jacques Follweiler[SMTP:JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 4:16 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Moso rod If you want to see nodes take a look at the tortoise shell bamboo at theKyoto site! Jack from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Mar 7 20:26:30 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: slow Are there problems with the list or is it really, really slow. Regards, Steve from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Mar 7 20:37:49 2000 Subject: Re: slow I was just thinking the same thing. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: slow Are there problems with the list or is it really, really slow. Regards, Steve from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Mar 7 20:57:39 2000 Subject: Re: slow Don't know, am not getting anu messages.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Steve Trauthwein wrote: Are there problems with the list or is it really, really slow. Regards, Steve from tlongair@home.com Tue Mar 7 21:39:36 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP Subject: heat treating Hi all,Am trying a blonde rod this time around. Searched the archives, (what agreat resource), unfortunately, perhaps as expected with a topic socontroversial I now have not a clear idea how long or how hot. Anyfavourite recipes out there? I have a hot air gun oven, want to temperthe cane but not discolour it. Thanks Terry Longair from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Mar 7 22:32:19 2000 Subject: Re: heat treating Hi Terry,I've used 350F for 11-12 minutes for a long time now and find it darkensthecane just a bit. For a blond rod I'd suggest 300-325F for 10 minuteswithoutthe use of ammonia carbonate.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: heat treating Hi all,Am trying a blonde rod this time around. Searched the archives, (what agreat resource), unfortunately, perhaps as expected with a topic socontroversial I now have not a clear idea how long or how hot. Anyfavourite recipes out there? I have a hot air gun oven, want to temperthe cane but not discolour it.Thanks Terry Longair from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Mar 7 22:37:40 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Sanding gizmo Here's something that's working pretty well for me as I sand the varnishcoats, FWIW. To get a nice flat surface, I put some Scotch doublesticky tape on about 4" of both sides of a one of those 6" flexiblesteel rules. Not the foam double sticky, it's TOO sticky, but the cleartype. Then I razor bladed 1200 grit sandpaper into 1/4" by 6" or sostrips. By wrapping the sandpaper up one side and down the other I geta double sided 3" 1200 grit "emery board". The steel rule is just stiffenough, and being nice and flat helps keep the corners from rounding.I'm sure there's lots of other ways to approach it, but this works good spots. When the strip gets loaded up, it peels off easy, and the nextstrip goes on in seconds. Keeps the wraps and flats nice and flat. Anyone got a good idea or gadget to sand underneath the stripper andsnakes? My rule is just a little too wide to make it underneath themconsistently or into the small tight spots. It looks like I'm gonnaneed "one more time" on the varnish - so I've still got a chance topolish under the guides just a little better before the last dip andwould appreciate any good ideas or tips. best regards to all mac from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 8 00:21:36 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Setting Forms Perplexed in Portland. Have new steel forms ( from Lon Blauvelt, not "hot"onessold out of the back of the car belonging to the person that took Bobs). Havebeen messing with practice cane on wooden form and have real culmflamed,split, rough planed and am attempting to set form to begin a rod. Have dial indicator, micrometer and depth gage w/60 deg point. Checked 2stations on the butt