from stpete@netten.net Wed Mar 1 00:19:24 2000 Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:23:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Yes!! Paul. I really meant to mention that aspect. A machinist friendsuggested that I use a two flute tap. He would have tapped the holesright there in the drill press using it as a means of starting astraight set of threads. I opted to buy a good four flute tap to startthe threads, then switched to a two flute tap once I had about a 1/4" ofthe hole tapped. The four flute was easier to start straight. The twoflute allowed the chips to come out in two continuous curls and I didn'thave to keep backing up to clear the chips. Really fast and didn't bindin the steel I was using (CRS). The brand I used was Greenfield orsomething like that. Rick C. Paul Goodwin wrote: I'll second what Rick just said. I just finished mine and it is a bit of work to make them.However, I think it's safe to say that it's no more work tomake a set of planing forms than it is to make a bamboorod. One thing to add is buy good taps for threading holes.Do not buy the crap (Hanson or Vermont American) thatHome Depot carries. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 8:44 PMSubject: Planing Forms To all Lurkers, Wannabe's, Newbies and anyone else who cares, [good advise snipped] Rick C.Rick C. from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Mar 1 00:32:37 2000 Subject: Re: planing form I have four of the planing forms Richard speaks of. One is a quad formwhich I haven't used yet. It looks good ,but I haven't had an opportunityto use it yet. The other forms are all hex. They work well and are inconstant use ( I made 25 rods last year on these forms.) No commercialinterest other than a wish to promote another Canadian. ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: planing formDate: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 1:35 PM It's nice to hear that some machinists still have pride in their work.Here's what happened to me:A few rodmakers and I bought the materials for the forms ($75 per form)andbrought them to machinist #1 along with Tom Penrose's detailed plans,photos, sketches, etc. Machinist #1 was able to drill the holes and tapthem. He then tried to make the groove. For some reason, he decided tomakethe groove 45 degrees instead of 60. When I complained, he milled thesurface down. In so doing, the form warped quite badly. Instead oflettinghim try the groove again (by now I had pretty much lost faith in him), Ipaid him the $210 and left. I then found machinist #2 who had built a set of forms for anotherrodmaker. I hired him to do the groove, providing him with the detailedspecs. His first attempt at making the groove was terrible. The groovewasbadly off center. I complained and he milled the surface flat in order totry again. His second attempt to mill the groove was now perfectlycentered. Unfortunately, it was now way too deep, allowing you to makeonly7-8 wt rods. The surface could no longer be milled down since therewasn'tenough metal left. I paid the guy his $140 and left. I tried to file theforms to get them shallower with no luck since I was down to thescrews.Finally, I just reached for the phone and bought a set from GrindstoneAnglers. They arrived the next day by FedEX, and are perfect. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mackelvane@aol.comSent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 11:01 AM Subject: Re: planing form In a message dated 2/28/00 8:28:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: metal forms built tosave some money. Most machinist can't seem to build forms tothe toleranceswe need. You can pick up some excellent new forms fromGrindstone Anglers(905 689-0880) for $400 cdn ( about $275 U.S.). Usualdisclaimer applies.I'm just a very happy customer after having suffered throughplaning formhell. >> This deserves a revision. Don't go to a machinist you don'ttrust. There area lot of reputable machinists out there working withtolerances much finerthan those demanded by a quality set of forms. By the sametoken, there arethose who work under the guise of "machinist" who would haveno idea how totool a machine and make cuts that were not preprogrammed.True machining,like rod-building, is a trade that puts a high emphasis onreputation. I'dtrust a guy who works as a machinist in a job shop (where anabsolute premiumis placed on reputation) more than one who works as a"machinist" in amass-production factory. If you're lucky, you might know atopnotch machinistwho will not wilt under the pressure of squaring up the formsand making thetapered bevel. Depending on your friendship, you may be ableto have formsmade at cost plus a cold beverage or two. Otherwise, a goodmachinist knowswhat his time is worth, and it's not cheap. -J from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Mar 1 05:38:54 2000 Subject: Re: Planing Forms I cheated. After drilling the through hole to be threaded I drilled 50% ofthe way through with a clearence hole. This let the tap align itself and1/2the thichness was plenty of threads. After spending a whole evening doing the first dozen holes by hand DavePrice suggested that I use my cordless drill. So I put the 5/16" tap in thecordless drill and set the clutch (dewalt 14.4V). I did the next thirty in acouple of hours. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Planing Forms Yes!! Paul. I really meant to mention that aspect. A machinist friendsuggested that I use a two flute tap. He would have tapped the holesright there in the drill press using it as a means of starting astraight set of threads. I opted to buy a good four flute tap to startthe threads, then switched to a two flute tap once I had about a 1/4" ofthe hole tapped. The four flute was easier to start straight. The twoflute allowed the chips to come out in two continuous curls and I didn'thave to keep backing up to clear the chips. Really fast and didn't bindin the steel I was using (CRS). The brand I used was Greenfield orsomething like that. Rick C. Paul Goodwin wrote: I'll second what Rick just said. I just finished mine and it is a bit of work to make them.However, I think it's safe to say that it's no more work tomake a set of planing forms than it is to make a bamboorod. One thing to add is buy good taps for threading holes.Do not buy the crap (Hanson or Vermont American) thatHome Depot carries. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 8:44 PMSubject: Planing Forms To all Lurkers, Wannabe's, Newbies and anyone else who cares, [good advise snipped] Rick C.Rick C. from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Mar 1 05:39:05 2000 (204.186.33.83) Subject: planing form I made my own form about 8 years ago after purchasing a "machinistmade"form and being disappointed with it's accuracy. I followed directions Ifound in the "Planing Form" publication. I used brass bar instead ofCRS and it turned out extremly accurate. If you don't want to spend the$850 or so dollars on a Bellinger form you are butter off making yourown. It's not that hard. Marty from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 1 06:18:25 2000 Subject: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank virus warning but Igot this from the office of some serious minded people I work with fromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer for a while andthought I might just alert you all to what at first sight seems to be avirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may prevent some problems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Mar 1 06:27:06 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: Fixing Cork and Planning Forms I have used a yellow glue mixed with fine cork dust, with raw sienna andwhite acrylic paint from the hobby store, to get an absolutely perfectcolormatch. My only concern is how will this, or any other glue, dust and paintcombination,react to the normal wear during use. I have not had use on any handle Ihavedone this on. I think I would rather have pits than all of the patchesshowingup after a little soiling. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 1 07:33:55 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:31:35 Subject: RE: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Tony, The Pretty Park virus isn't a hoax. I received it last week and luckilydeleted it without opening. It is a replicating virus that sends itself tothe addresses in your address book. It also causes some file damage Ibelieve according to some people I know who did open the file. It isspreading quite quickly right now. Here's the instructions to remove it: 1. from windows explorer, select the windows directory.2. from the drop down menus: select Tools -> Find -> Files or Folders.3. Enter "files32.vxd" in the text box labelled "Named" . ( without thedouble quotes -> files32.vxd ).4. Press Find Now. If the files is found, LET YOUR SYSTEM ADMIN. know (if you have one). If you want to remove the virus on your on, you should proceed withcaution.If you are not confident, you are best to check with someone who hastechnical knowledge regarding Windows 98/NT. If you are confident, the following instructions are how to remove thevirus: (if you do not understand the instructions below, my technical staffsay "don't try it, find someone who knows"). Removal: 1. regedit search for:HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Classes\exefile\shell\open\command.Remove FILES32.VXD (if present). 2. reboot.3. delete files32.vxd ( should be in either window directory orwindows\system directory ) This web address is how we found out how to remove the virus:- http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/prettypark.worm.html -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 7:28 AM Subject: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank viruswarning but Igot this from the office of some serious minded people I workwith fromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer thought I might just alert you all to what at first sightseems to be avirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may preventsome problems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Mar 1 09:18:50 2000 (may be forged)) Subject: RE: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning This is serious. A friend got hit with this virus, and his computerspewed out email messages for several days, which he could not stop. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 5:28 AM Subject: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank virus warningbut Igot this from the office of some serious minded people I work withfromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer for a whileandthought I might just alert you all to what at first sight seems to beavirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may prevent someproblems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 1 10:39:43 2000 Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:39:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Fixing Cork and Planning Forms Steve Trauthwein wrote: I have used a yellow glue mixed with fine cork dust, with raw siennaandwhite acrylic paint from the hobby store, to get an absolutely perfectcolormatch. My only concern is how will this, or any other glue, dust and paintcombination,react to the normal wear during use. I have not had use on any handle Ihavedone this on. I think I would rather have pits than all of the patchesshowingup after a little soiling. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Another reason to use the Fix wood patch. I like the light mahogany. Itdoes age quite nicely, at the same rate as cork. And it is SO much easierto usethan the glue/cork dust mixtures. Maybe I'm beginning to sound like TA,but itseems to me that more than a few of us (me included!) revel in doingthings thehard way! Harry from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 1 11:08:45 2000 Subject: Guide spacing for 8 1/2' Heddon #17 If someone could provide the guide spacing for an 8 1/2' Heddon #17(Black Beauty), I would be very appreciative of the help. I'm doing anoverhaul on one for a long time good friend, and the guides were screwedup by whoever did the crap revarnish job for him several years ago. Thanks and regards to all, mac from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 1 11:31:24 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Rod marking question My friend's Heddon #17, of which he has been single owner since hebought it new, was revarnished by a real hack several years ago. Ashamefully terrible job. In the process, the original rod markings werewiped off. There is NO question that the rod is a Heddon #17. I amsoon going to be doing a restoration/refurbish on it for him. The question: Should I re-mark the rod while I'm at it? If so, withwhat markings? Is it wrong to give it my best shot at the originalHeddon script and line designation? I certainly have no intent todeceive anyone, but as I said, there is no question whatsoever that therod is a #17, Black Beauty. He is intending to pass it on to his son, so there is not a "resale"issue involved, (at least not in the directly foreseeable future), but Iam interested in the perspective of you guys that have been aroundclassic rods a lot longer than I have as to how best to proceed in suchan instance. I appreciate your comments and advice - thanks mac from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Mar 1 12:18:29 2000 SMTP id HAA13074 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 200007:18:07 +1300 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Paul and others, I cheated even more. When I built steel forms I drilled and tapped the pushside of the form but for the pull side used a clear hole and a tight fittingbolt about 1/2 an inch wider then the form width.I use a nut on the end ofthat bolt to pull the forms together . This seems to work well,the Formslock tight when set and are easy to adjust to .oo1 of an inch . There aresteel dowels every 5 inches to assist alignment. Incidently I used a drill press for making wooden forms but a dowellingjig Ian Kearney At 06:45 AM 1/03/00 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote:I cheated. After drilling the through hole to be threaded I drilled 50% ofthe way through with a clearence hole. This let the tap align itself and1/2the thichness was plenty of threads. After spending a whole evening doing the first dozen holes by hand DavePrice suggested that I use my cordless drill. So I put the 5/16" tap in thecordless drill and set the clutch (dewalt 14.4V). I did the next thirty in acouple of hours. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 1:18 AMSubject: Re: Planing Forms Yes!! Paul. I really meant to mention that aspect. A machinist friendsuggested that I use a two flute tap. He would have tapped the holesright there in the drill press using it as a means of starting astraight set of threads. I opted to buy a good four flute tap to startthe threads, then switched to a two flute tap once I had about a 1/4" ofthe hole tapped. The four flute was easier to start straight. The twoflute allowed the chips to come out in two continuous curls and I didn'thave to keep backing up to clear the chips. Really fast and didn't bindin the steel I was using (CRS). The brand I used was Greenfield orsomething like that. Rick C. Paul Goodwin wrote: I'll second what Rick just said. I just finished mine and it is a bit of work to make them.However, I think it's safe to say that it's no more work tomake a set of planing forms than it is to make a bamboorod. One thing to add is buy good taps for threading holes.Do not buy the crap (Hanson or Vermont American) thatHome Depot carries. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Rick C." Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 8:44 PMSubject: Planing Forms To all Lurkers, Wannabe's, Newbies and anyone else who cares, [good advise snipped] Rick C.Rick C. from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 1 14:55:10 2000 Subject: Re: Rod marking question Hi Ralph,On the assumption you're refinishing rather than restoring the rodI'd suggest you ink the butt section in black ink with a very fine point penand write on one flat "Heddon Black Beauty" and one the opposite flatwrite#17-8 1/2 - 2F. People should not confuse this as a restored to originalcondition rod since the original Heddons were inked with the word"Heddon"wrtten in a spiral fashion on the flats. You might wish to use the same asoriginal thread for the wraps which was black tipped with orange.Ray----- Original Message -- --- Subject: Rod marking question My friend's Heddon #17, of which he has been single owner since hebought it new, was revarnished by a real hack several years ago. Ashamefully terrible job. In the process, the original rod markings werewiped off. There is NO question that the rod is a Heddon #17. I amsoon going to be doing a restoration/refurbish on it for him. The question: Should I re-mark the rod while I'm at it? If so, withwhat markings? Is it wrong to give it my best shot at the originalHeddon script and line designation? I certainly have no intent todeceive anyone, but as I said, there is no question whatsoever that therod is a #17, Black Beauty. He is intending to pass it on to his son, so there is not a "resale"issue involved, (at least not in the directly foreseeable future), but Iam interested in the perspective of you guys that have been aroundclassic rods a lot longer than I have as to how best to proceed in suchan instance. I appreciate your comments and advice - thanks mac from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Mar 1 18:08:11 2000 Subject: Re: planing form All, I have to agree - a good machinist can do the forms easily enough. Minewerebuilt in a machine shop (nice big Bridgeport mill) and the results wereveryaccurate. The problem is that, unless you set up to build a bunch of them,the hand work is fairly intensive, and the cost would be up there with orover Bootstrap, et. al. Good machinists don't come cheap. The guys buildingand selling these have jigs set-ups and can mass produce fairly fast - probably even make a little profit. I guess my problem comes with a $800 to $1,000 set of forms - that's alittle steep, and, being a machinist, I can't see where the work went intothem other than a finish treatment. That's a lot of profit. Jim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: planing form In a message dated 2/28/00 8:28:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: save some money. Most machinist can't seem to build forms to thetoleranceswe need. You can pick up some excellent new forms from GrindstoneAnglers(905 689-0880) for $400 cdn ( about $275 U.S.). Usual disclaimerapplies.I'm just a very happy customer after having suffered through planingformhell. >> This deserves a revision. Don't go to a machinist you don't trust. Therearea lot of reputable machinists out there working with tolerances muchfinerthan those demanded by a quality set of forms. By the same token, therearethose who work under the guise of "machinist" who would have no ideahowtotool a machine and make cuts that were not preprogrammed. Truemachining,like rod-building, is a trade that puts a high emphasis on reputation. I'dtrust a guy who works as a machinist in a job shop (where an absolutepremiumis placed on reputation) more than one who works as a "machinist" in amass-production factory. If you're lucky, you might know a topnotchmachinistwho will not wilt under the pressure of squaring up the forms andmakingthetapered bevel. Depending on your friendship, you may be able to haveformsmade at cost plus a cold beverage or two. Otherwise, a good machinistknowswhat his time is worth, and it's not cheap. -J from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 1 18:46:49 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: Guide spacing for 8 1/2' Heddon #17 Thanks to everyone who sent information on the guide spacing. Iappreciate your taking the time to get the information around. mac from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Mar 1 20:02:09 2000 Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:01:36 -0400 Subject: Home made lathe,was: Small Lathes--which one?? If any one remembers me talking about the "Franken lathe" that I wastalkingabout a few weeks ago that I built out of scraps, it LIVES!! Yes theabominationis running and I must say that it does a very nice job of turning ferrulestations and shaping cork! It takes a few more minutes to set up, but hey,howmany other guys out there can say their lathe only cost about as much as adozenbeer ( Canadian beer that is!) ;^)Mind you you aren't going to turn any reel seats or ferrules on it......orcould I???hehehe. Seriously if all you want to do is shape cork and turn stations thisisa VERY cheap alternative to buying a lathe. If any other desperate soul outthere needs a lathe, and is looking for a cheap way to do it, I would behappyto show the pictures. I also have a $2 "Franken binder" and a $10 Frankenovenand a free set of planing forms (free unless you count the endless hours oftedious work to build them). If there is enough interest, maybe I'll put picsofall of them on the list for future generations of tight wads!See it can be done on a poor mans budget. And the money I saved canpay HardyBougle MK IV #3 for my new Perfectionist) OHHHH I am a very naughtyboy!!! Jeff Ferguson wrote: Fellow rodmakers: I am interested in purchasing a small, hobby-type lathe mainly for rodmaking (including, hopefully, reel seats and ferrules some day). I hearthat some rod makers use Sherline lathes, but I was wondering if anyonehasany feedback on the new Grizzly small lathe (it's in the new Grizzlycatalog ??What is the best lathe for the money? Any recommendations/cautions would be greatly appreciated, as well asgoodplaces to buy one! Thanks! Jeff from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Mar 1 22:06:36 2000 E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 02 Mar 200011:18:22 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: planing form Hi Marty,the idea of making forms out of brass has crossed my mind fromtime to time. I assume it would be easier to work than CRS but probably abit more expensive as well. How well are yours performing and do theygetnicked or marked very easily? Does anyone else have any thoughts onbrassforms? Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: planing form I made my own form about 8 years ago after purchasing a "machinistmade"form and being disappointed with it's accuracy. I followed directions Ifound in the "Planing Form" publication. I used brass bar instead ofCRS and it turned out extremly accurate. If you don't want to spend the$850 or so dollars on a Bellinger form you are butter off making yourown. It's not that hard. Marty from gholland@uswest.net Thu Mar 2 01:13:54 2000 (207.225.18.132) Subject: Re: Fwd: ***** EMAIL WARNING **** This is a serious warning This is legit, as has been stated. The following link will give thoseinterested and/or infected the info that they need.http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/prettypark.worm.html youreceive these frantic messages about virus'...they have a complete list ofthevirus' and of the common hoaxes. Greg Holland Tony Young wrote: Gentle people of the list.I know this message below looks like your usual prank virus warning butIgot this from the office of some serious minded people I work with fromtime to time who never kid about these things. I admit I haven'tinvestigated this virus but I'm about to leave my computer for a whileandthought I might just alert you all to what at first sight seems to be avirus problem. If it is in fact a real virus it may prevent some problems. Tony /***************message sniped ********/******IF YOU GET AN EMAIL CALLED PRETTY PARK ********* DO NOT OPEN DELETE DELETE DELETE Karl FerrariOsipos Pty Ltdemail : karl@osipos.com.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 2 07:27:11 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Subject: Cork Repairs Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use. Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give a rod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 2 08:01:49 2000 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs boundary="=====================_5821339==_.ALT" --=====================_5821339==_.ALT Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT thecombinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am going to givethose atry on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic model putty and rawsiennaoil paint for 6-7 years now with no problems. I chose it because, for me,itwas the simplest and easiest way to go. Four or five of my bamboo rods(givenaway) have been in use ca. 200 days a year for the past three years andseem tobe holding up fine. These folks do wash the cork grips occasionally withspicand span, comet (or similar cleaners), just as they do occasionally waxtherods. However, the difficulty with this technique is matching the color.Onehas to be very careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with atoothpick!) goes a LONG, LONG way. However, I am the first to admit thatcorkdust sounds better than using PLASTIC putty (ugh!). I believe that I pickedthis tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite rods when it firstcameout.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use. Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give a rod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html --=====================_5821339==_.ALT Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT the combinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I amgoing to give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been using theplastic model putty and raw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no easiest way to go. Four or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have beenin use ca. 200 days a year for the past three years and seem to be with spic and span, comet (or similar cleaners), just as they dooccasionally wax the rods. However, the difficulty with this technique ismatching the color. One has to be very careful. A little bit of oil paint Morris' book on building graphite rods when it first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: any of use. Am usei give a rod. --=====================_5821339==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 2 08:52:19 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:52:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0 With the really high quality super glues, available on most model shops =today, replacing a bad spot in a grip, with a splice of fresh cork, is a =better repair than any "made to order putty". B making a clean cut with =a razor blade, and clamping a replacement piece of cork very tightly, =such a repair is virtually invisible, and totally water proof. GMA Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Cork Repairs Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (but =NOT the combinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am going =to give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic =model putty and raw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no problems.=I chose it because, for me, it was the simplest and easiest way to go. =Four or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have been in use ca. 200 =days a year for the past three years and seem to be holding up fine. =These folks do wash the cork grips occasionally with spic and span, =comet (or similar cleaners), just as they do occasionally wax the rods. =However, the difficulty with this technique is matching the color. One =has to be very careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with a =toothpick!) goes a LONG, LONG way. However, I am the first to admit =that cork dust sounds better than using PLASTIC putty (ugh!). I believe =that I picked this tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite =rods when it first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have =any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the =use. Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give a =rod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0 With the really high quality super glues, available on most model = today, replacing a bad spot in a grip, with a splice of fresh cork, is a = repair than any "made to order putty". B making a clean cut with a razor = virtually invisible, and totally water proof. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Snider rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Cork RepairsHaving tried various cork dust/glue combinations and = puttys (but NOT the combinations recently discussed on the = and I am going to give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been = plastic model putty and raw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no = way to go. Four or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have been in = 200 days a year for the past three years and seem to be holding up = These folks do wash the cork grips occasionally with spic and span, = similar cleaners), just as they do occasionally wax the rods. However, = difficulty with this technique is matching the color. One has to be = careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with a toothpick!) = = this tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite rods when it = came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & = ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BF8424.D6005BA0-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 2 09:20:10 2000 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs boundary="=====================_10514028==_.ALT" --=====================_10514028==_.ALT No doubt that this technique works extremely well, and certainly when youfindsomething that works for your particular style of rodbuilding, you shouldgo the cork. However, most of the cork I get has so many minute blemishesthat itwould take me considerable time to splice each spot (this is supposedlyhighestquality cork). (Or perhaps I am simply anal retentive about suchblemishes).Smushing on glue and cork dust, or wood putty (or whatever) followed by amedium touch with sandpaper is down and dirty quick. I have found that allofthese techniques work to a greater or lesser degree. Over the years I haveconstructed synthetic rods using most of the techniques described, andtheyhave all held up pretty much the same (matching coloration being the onlyproblem). Like rod building, it usually boils down to personal preference(after much experimentation on your own). I say a big thank you to all ofthose who willingly contributed their methods for repairing cork grips. I,forone, learned a lot.J. Snider At 08:53 AM 03/02/2000 -0600, nobler wrote: With the really high quality super glues, available on most model shopstoday, replacing a bad spot in a grip, with a splice of fresh cork, is abetter repair than any "made to order putty". B making a clean cut with arazor blade, and clamping a replacement piece of cork very tightly, sucharepair is virtually invisible, and totally water proof. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Snider rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Cork Repairs Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT thecombinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am going to givethose a try on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic model puttyandraw sienna oil paint for 6-7 years now with no problems. I chose itbecause, for me, it was the simplest and easiest way to go. Four or fiveofmy bamboo rods (given away) have been in use ca. 200 days a year forthepast three years and seem to be holding up fine. These folks do washthecork grips occasionally with spic and span, comet (or similar cleaners),just as they do occasionally wax the rods. However, the difficulty withthistechnique is matching the color. One has to be very careful. A little bitofoil paint (a mere touch with a toothpick!) goes a LONG, LONG way. However,I am the first to admit that cork dust sounds better than using PLASTICputty (ugh!). I believe that I picked this tip up from Skip Morris' book onbuilding graphite rods when it first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have anyofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use.Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give arod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html --=====================_10514028==_.ALT No doubt that this technique works extremely well, and certainly when youfind something that works for your particular style of rodbuilding, youshould go for it. I, for one, will adopt this technique in the future for many minute blemishes that it would take me considerable time to splice am simply anal retentive about such blemishes). Smushing on glue and corkdust, or wood putty (or whatever) followed by a medium touch withsandpaper is down and dirty quick. I have found that all of these have constructed synthetic rods using most of the techniques described,and they have all held up pretty much the same (matching coloration beingthe only problem). Like rod building, it usually boils down to personal thank you to all of those who willingly contributed their methods forrepairing cork grips. I, for one, learned a lot.J. Snider At 08:53 AM 03/02/2000 -0600, nobler wrote: With the really high quality super glues,available on most model shops today, replacing a bad spot in a grip, witha splice of fresh cork, is a better repair than any "made to orderputty". B making a clean cut with a razor blade, and clamping areplacement piece of cork very tightly, such a repair is virtuallyinvisible, and totally water proof. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Snider ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Cork Repairs Having tried various cork dust/glue combinations and wood puttys (butNOT=the combinations recently discussed on the listserv, and I am goingto=give those a try on upcoming rods), I have been using the plastic model= I=chose it because, for me, it was the simplest and easiest way to go. Four=or five of my bamboo rods (given away) have been in use ca. 200 days ayear= folks=do wash the cork grips occasionally with spic and span, comet (orsimilar=cleaners), just as they do occasionally wax the rods. However, the=difficulty with this technique is matching the color. One has to be very=careful. A little bit of oil paint (a mere touch with a toothpick!) goes a= dust= picked this tip up from Skip Morris' book on building graphite rods whenit=first came out.J. SniderAt 06:35 AM 03/02/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: of use.=Am use i=give a rod. --=====================_10514028==_.ALT-- from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Mar 2 11:08:24 2000 Subject: Re: Cork Repairs Hi Don,The system I reported on has been in hard use on my own rods for 10 yearsorso with no problems.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Cork Repairs Guys, Read with interest the emails on cork repair. Got a question. Have any ofthe repairs been used really hard and how did they stand up to the use.Amconcerned that some of them might not hack the "normal" use i give arod. Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from yves@dancris.com Thu Mar 2 13:47:00 2000 MAA06085 Subject: NS tubing List: I'm looking for some NS tubing for reel seat sliding rings, about0.8" outside diam. - i.e., a ssmall quantity. Anyone out there have asource? Thanks in advance. Dave from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 15:21:07 2000 Subject: Franken tools Sorry guys,tried posting the pics for my franken tools but, theywere rejected for size. I will send them individually to all that asked Shawn from rmoon@ida.net Thu Mar 2 16:49:34 2000 Subject: Re: Franken tools Shawn Why don't you go to EBoard and set up a site to post the pictures, Itis free and it is easy and you can advertise the location on the rodlist without incurring any flaming.. Should you have to send these outto even a couple of dozen, you are going to be inundated. Ralph from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 18:39:36 2000 Subject: EBOARD.COM : Shawnsbamboopage eBoard boundary="------------566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2 Guys,here are the photos of Franken tools.The text I will send here. Shawn http://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZ0 --------------566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2 name="QLZ9S4SRZ0" filename="QLZ9S4SRZ0"Content-Base: "http://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZ0"Content- Location: "http://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZ0" EBOARD.COM : Shawnsbamboopage eBoard 1000) {xpix = '1000';ypix = Number(ypix)+40;sb = 'yes';}if (Number(ypix) > 600) {ypix = '600';xpix = Number(xpix)+40;sb = 'yes';}pwindow = pwindow.focus();}// end of hiding from old browsers --> Create a NeweBoardTell aFriend-->Change Passwords-->SendFeedback to eBoardHelp Exit Shawnsbamboopage Go toPost / Edit Mode FrankenLathePIC FrankenBinderPIC FrankenOvenPIC eBoard and the eBoard logo areregistered Trademarks of eBoard.com,Inc.Copyright ©1998,1999,2000 eBoard.com, Inc. All rightsreserved. --------------566C2B8B7A745FBB2EF1AFD2-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:12:53 2000 Subject: Franken Lathe OK,You guys asked for it! It looks cheesy but seems to work justfine for turning cork, prepping blanks for ferrules and lappingferrules.Parts consist of : 1 electric motor( I used a 1/6 Hp one, oldwashing machine motor will do fine).2 pillow blocks(the pieces withbearings),1 piece of thick wall 3/4" copper pipe, I made mine 18"long that the pipe fits securely in the pillow blocks) 2 brass couplings tofit on each end of pipe(I like the hex on the end because you justdrill a hole in every other flat at center and tap the holes,this givesthree points of contact on a hex rod! screw in 6 bolts of appropriatelength. You will also need 2 pulleys and a belt. I used a 1:1 ratio somy lathe turns at about 1725 RPM .The switch is an option. I used somescraps of wood to raise everything up on a small square of plywood.Put the pulley on the pipe and slide a pillow block on eitherend, then put the belt on and fasten down the pillows. Epoxy on thebrass fittings making sure that they are lined up perfectly with eachother, these are your chucks!!! Bolt on the motor and sit back, crack abeer,and laugh at your creation... Stop laughing when you realize howwell it works!Oh, when you put the rod thru, wrap masking tape or electricaltape around it to preserve rod at clamping points. tighten down (withinreason) I measure with my depth gauge part of my Vernier caliper tocenter the blank. Just keep adjusting till you get the same amount ofbolt sticking out at each spot.If there are any other questions/comments let me know, I'll try tohelp out. I think that the pictures will be fairly straight forwardthough.Sorry about the pic quality, my web cam isn't co-operating.Enjoy,Shawnpictures at http:www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:15:05 2000 Subject: Franken Binder Here is the Franken Binder. 2 pieces of scrap wood, 1 old reel handle, 3-1" pulleys, 1- 3"pulley, 4 or 6 cup hooks, piece of para cord or other And some screws to hold everything together.Shawnpictures at http://www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:17:22 2000 Subject: Franken oven Here's the Franken oven built as per Frank Neunenman's page with theexception that i added pink fiberglass insulation with bubble foil overtop for working outside in the Canadian cold sometimes. This works toowell and I can easily reach up to 475 F before I shut the heat down.This is the simplest oven I have seen, next to a piece of pipe and blowtorch! You could do without the insulation according to Frank especiallyif you live where it is warm.I just use a candy thermometer on a string at different heightsto keep tabs on temp which fluctuates at first until equilibrium. Formore info see Frank's page or ask me.Shawnpictures at http://www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:25:37 2000 Subject: PHY Perfectionist grip Does anyone know how long the grip originally was on the Perfectionistand what style it was? I was just going to use a 6"Western style, but 6"seems kinda short for this rod.Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:29:08 2000 Subject: Drying cabinet temp What temp should my drying cabinet tempature be? I seem to recallsomething like80 degrees F ?Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 2 19:36:42 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Franken Lathe Sorry guys should be:http://www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage Shawn Pineo wrote: OK,You guys asked for it! It looks cheesy but seems to work justfine for turning cork, prepping blanks for ferrules and lappingferrules.Parts consist of : 1 electric motor( I used a 1/6 Hp one, oldwashing machine motor will do fine).2 pillow blocks(the pieces withbearings),1 piece of thick wall 3/4" copper pipe, I made mine 18"long that the pipe fits securely in the pillow blocks) 2 brass couplings tofit on each end of pipe(I like the hex on the end because you justdrill a hole in every other flat at center and tap the holes,this givesthree points of contact on a hex rod! screw in 6 bolts of appropriatelength. You will also need 2 pulleys and a belt. I used a 1:1 ratio somy lathe turns at about 1725 RPM .The switch is an option. I used somescraps of wood to raise everything up on a small square of plywood.Put the pulley on the pipe and slide a pillow block on eitherend, then put the belt on and fasten down the pillows. Epoxy on thebrass fittings making sure that they are lined up perfectly with eachother, these are your chucks!!! Bolt on the motor and sit back, crack abeer,and laugh at your creation... Stop laughing when you realize howwell it works!Oh, when you put the rod thru, wrap masking tape or electricaltape around it to preserve rod at clamping points. tighten down (withinreason) I measure with my depth gauge part of my Vernier caliper tocenter the blank. Just keep adjusting till you get the same amount ofbolt sticking out at each spot.If there are any other questions/comments let me know, I'll try tohelp out. I think that the pictures will be fairly straight forwardthough.Sorry about the pic quality, my web cam isn't co-operating.Enjoy,Shawnpictures at http:www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 2 19:57:46 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Subject: Cork Repairs Guys, I very much appreciate the feedback. I will be trying some of thetechniques that you guys use soon. After my first and only bout with glueand cork dust - I never tried filling the holes again. These ideas for corkrepair are great.My thanx, Don Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Fri Mar 3 07:54:19 2000 2000 05:55:44 PST Subject: Heat-strip Oven For Sale I have a 60" heat strip oven for sale. Anyoneinterested please contact me off-list. Thanks.__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from listreader@codemarine.com Fri Mar 3 08:18:26 2000 Subject: Group Demarest bamboo order -- NC I'm about to order a bale of red mark 2" - 2.5" cane from Demarest--but Iprobably don't need all 20 culms. If you're in the Raleigh area (or withindriving distance thereof) and would like to participate in the order, pleaselet me know off-list. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from listreader@codemarine.com Fri Mar 3 08:35:56 2000 Subject: Group Order -- Tony Young Ferrules Many of you have seen Tony Young's beautiful and inexpensive NS Ferrules.Ifyou haven't, here's the Web site: http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html I asked Tony if he would be willing to offer a bulk-order discount to thebuilders on this list. He agreed to provide a 20% discount on a group orderexceeding $650 US. His products are already very competitively priced, sothis represents an excellent value. If you are interested in participating in this order, please visit his Website to decide what you want. The first FIVE individuals to contact me (notTony!!) off-list with an order greater than $100 US will be included in theorder. I'm planning to place the order no later than Thursday of next week.Should I receive email from more than five people, I'll give preference toamateur builders. Obviously, I have no vested interest in Tony Young's company--I'm simplytrying to provide a service to the members of the list (myself included, ofcourse :). Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from dati@selway.umt.edu Fri Mar 3 09:39:03 2000 08:38:59 -0700 Subject: AJ Thramer 444 DX Has anyone made the AJ Thramer 444 DX. I am curious about thisrod's: action, casting distance etc. Also, it specifies a ferrule, can itbe made a one piece rod? Thanks, Darin Law from dhaftel@att.com Fri Mar 3 09:52:54 2000 KAA24646; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: AJ Thramer 444 DX Darrin, I made mine as a one piece rod. It throws a DT4 nicely. It'll also shoot aWF5 without too much trouble. You won't win any distance competitionswithit, but it's a good small stream rod. I can get ~35 to 40 feet with it. I was thinking of making another with a ferrule and comparing the two. Give it a try. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: AJ Thramer 444 DX Has anyone made the AJ Thramer 444 DX. I am curious about thisrod's: action, casting distance etc. Also, it specifies a ferrule, can itbe made a one piece rod? Thanks, Darin Law from listreader@codemarine.com Fri Mar 3 10:14:24 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft ExchangeInternet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Group Order -- Tony Young Ferrules Ahhh, the power of the Web. I now have the requisite number of people tofill the order. If you missed theopportunity, don't worry. I'm sure we'll do it again. Thank you, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Mar 3 10:33:13 2000 Subject: Re: AJ Thramer 444 DX I have made several of the 444 in one-piece configurations and also onepiece and nodeless. I can cast the rod (4 wt) 50-60 feet, but I wouldn'tdare think about fishing with it at those distances. Indeed, I likelycouldn't do it. The rod works quite well from 5 feet to 25 feet for dryfly fishing. Contact me off line and I will e- mail you some photos of therod in use. We're not supposed to do that on the rodmakers listserv. Acouple of local rodmakers have cast mine and are now building their ownversions of the model. For overall fishing using a short rod I also likeTom Smithwick's 5'6" 5 wt. one piece. Now that I have access to a Morganhand mill, I am attempting to build the latter extended to 6' and in a 2pc. configuration.J. SniderAt 08:38 AM 03/03/2000 -0700, Darin J Law wrote: Has anyone made the AJ Thramer 444 DX. I am curious about thisrod's: action, casting distance etc. Also, it specifies a ferrule, can itbe made a one piece rod? Thanks, Darin Law from fquinchat@locl.net Fri Mar 3 12:43:33 2000 corsair.locl.net (8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP idNAA12823 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:43:30 - Subject: Blue Gill Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0 Anyone have any suggestions for a nice taper for blue gills? My =experience is mainly with trout on the dry fly. Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0 Anyone have any suggestions for a nice taper for = fly. Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8517.82E2B1E0-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 3 13:33:29 2000 Subject: Re: Blue Gill Rod One of your trout rods will be fine. I would suggest a moderate action 5 or6 weight. That may seem like a lot of rod for the fish, but keep in mind you will probably be fishing with flys in the 8 to 10 size range, and you maybe rudely interrupted by a bass at any time. slow twitches. Poppers are always a choice. I have had some success with classic wet flys on the smaller fish. They seem to like something with abit of red and white in the pattern, Royal Coachman, Parmachene Belle, etc. from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Mar 3 13:35:24 2000 (5.5.2650.21) Rodmakers Subject: RE: Blue Gill Rod My preference is a 7 or 7 1/2' for #4 or 5. I don't like to go lighter thanthis because the flies are often rather large and I frequently use a deerhair bug with a wet fly on a dropper. There is also the occasionalopportunity to hook a bass while after bluegills. I regularly use a PHYPerfectionist, a Garrison 201E, a Dickerson 8013 (a little heavy), a PHYMidge (a little light) and a Cattanach 7042. I would stay away fromanything less than a #4 and avoid a very fine tip. I don't see very many people fishing bamboo rods for bluegill around here,but it is quite common to see smallmouth fishermen using bamboo rods. Mostof our rivers are rather small and they seem to be well adapted to makingshort casts with large flies. Bamboo rods a more common on thesmallmouthstreams than on trout streams. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Blue Gill Rod Anyone have any suggestions for a nice taper for blue gills? Myexperienceis mainly with trout on the dry fly. Dennis from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Sat Mar 4 09:42:39 2000 Subject: test from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Mar 4 13:23:51 2000 Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:23:44 -0800 Subject: Re: NS tubing David,Try Bob Venneri. His web address is on the Rodmakers page. I got afoot of tubing from him about two weeks ago. Harry David La Touche wrote: List: I'm looking for some NS tubing for reel seat sliding rings, about0.8" outside diam. - i.e., a ssmall quantity. Anyone out there have asource? Thanks in advance. Dave --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Mar 4 14:49:51 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Fred Bohls Fred, if you are out there contact me. Thanks.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from cphisey@neca.com Sat Mar 4 17:24:41 2000 Subject: Any Gene Edwards Tapers out there? To the List,I have just come into some blanks from the Gene Edwards companystock left over when it closed.Just Butts (nicely swelled) and mids.I washoping someone might have a taper or two of the Gene Edwards rods theywouldshare.One of the Butt/Mid is a salmon rod,rest seem to be 5-8 wts.Thanksinadvance for any and all help.Charles Hisey from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 4 18:13:03 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Subject: aging waxed wood blocks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0 I just picked up some maple blocks for making reel seats. I am assumingthatit is fairly green. The blocks were waxed entirely. My question is, shouldthere be an unwaxed side on the blocks or is total waxing OK and abouthowlong should this stuff sit to age.One of the blocks is 3.5" x 6" x 12" and the other block is 5.5" x 5.5" x15".My guess is about a year but I really don't know Martin Jensen ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0 name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF85F4.6CFE1AD0-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Mar 4 18:24:35 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks In a message dated 03/04/2000 7:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, martinjensen@home.com writes: Martin,Depending on how green this wood is, I would say fromsix months to one year, to age it properly. I usually wax the entire block, when I do mine and let them age for about a yearbefore cutting into 1x1x5 pieces. Or you can get some PEG, sold soak it in this for a few weeks. This will saturate the wood andremove the moisture from the wood. Then you can start workingwith it sooner. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Mar 4 18:35:05 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Bamboo All, Has anyone ordered any bamboo from Gary Chan in California? If so whatwas your take on the quality? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Mar 4 18:38:43 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Those are bowl blanks and intended to be turned down to about 3/4 to 5/8wall thickness and then air dried another few months before finalturning. the wax coating will inhibit any drying at all, so you need tomake some decisions. You can cut them into one inch square by howeverlong and soak them in PENTA or you can make your turning squares with ahole drilled through the center, rough turn the reel seat filler, andthen let them dry a while before turning to the final size. You mayloose some to cracking, etc.Or, and this is what I do most often for any small turning stock, Ijust rough cut it to about 25% over size and let it dry out until I needit. Some is good for fillers, some for ferrule plugs, some forkindling.Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, depending onthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Good luck! Brian from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Mar 4 18:45:16 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Tiptops/McCoy All, I am going to host an order to Mike McCoy. I am going to hold it totiptops to make it simpler. This order should be a complement to the onethat Harry Boyd organized. Mike informed me that his tiptops will be 1.50 after his discount forquantity. I propose that people interested send me a check or moneyorder for the amount of their discounted order plus 5.00 to coverpostage and ale, and an addressed priority mail label. I will then placethe order and send individual orders to all involved. If in a hurry I suggest you look elsewhere, as these things usually takea while to develop. If anyone is interested drop me an email and I will determine if thereis enough interest to go forward. PS I have not personally seen Mike's tiptops, but have heard ravesabout them. Ifthey come up to snuff with the guides, they will be well worththe investment. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from lars32@gateway.net Sat Mar 4 19:41:37 2000 Subject: Snake Brand Guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0 Mike's Telephone number is wrong in the ad in The Planing Form =newsletter this issue.The correct number is; 503-537-1908Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0 Mike's Telephone number is wrongin = The Planing Form newsletter this issue.The correct number = 503-537-1908DaveN. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8612.69F28CE0-- from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 4 20:08:55 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:08:52 -0800 Subject: RE: aging waxed wood blocks I may look into the PEG. Is this the same as Penta? Brian Creek mentionedthis stuff. Does this color the wood at all? Hey thanks for the info. I think I will store this stuff at work. I will beless tempted to use it immediately if it is on my desk instead of my shop! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks In a message dated 03/04/2000 7:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,martinjensen@home.com writes: Martin,Depending on how green this wood is, I would say fromsix months to one year, to age it properly. I usually wax theentire block, when I do mine and let them age for about a yearbefore cutting into 1x1x5 pieces. Or you can get some PEG, sold soak it in this for a few weeks. This will saturate the wood andremove the moisture from the wood. Then you can start workingwith it sooner. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from chris@artistree.com Sat Mar 4 20:59:23 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Use the Pentacryl. It won't change the color of the wood. PEG doesn'twork very well with glues or finishes.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Martin Jensen wrote: I may look into the PEG. Is this the same as Penta? Brian Creekmentionedthis stuff. Does this color the wood at all? Hey thanks for the info. I think I will store this stuff at work. I will beless tempted to use it immediately if it is on my desk instead of myshop! Martin Jensen from jswitzer@mnsi.net Sun Mar 5 06:51:50 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8678.8CC3C160-- from jswitzer@mnsi.net Sun Mar 5 06:52:14 2000 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0 =_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8678.9C1543A0-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 06:59:19 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Bamboo Two Anyone else who ordered from Cary, could you post your thoughts to thelist and not just to Steve? Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 07:26:21 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Bamboo Regarding Steve's post:Yes, I got cane from the Bamboo Earl. It's Cary I think. The cane was good. It had very minor leaf nodes and almost no mold. I got 10 6' sections and have only built one rod from them. However, the cane seems good. Ieven think it is good enough to build some blond rods from. At about $100 shipped for the whole lot, think I would call it a decent deal.I have not used Demerest or Royer's cane. This is just a comparison based on the Maurer culms I have seen and what I can infer from books and pics. Talk Cary into a small shipment. He is a nice guy. Ask for a "sample" shipment at a good price. I think he will go for it. He normally cuts the 6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each. If you want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what you want.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 5 07:29:08 2000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Two Bob, Steve,I'll be at a show on March 16-17 in Mountain Home, Arkansas. Cary issupposed to have some cane there. If you would like, I'll check it out andmake a report to the list.Cary is an interesting guy. He attended our Southern RodmakersGatheringthis past October. He is humble, intelligent, and witty. I haven'tpurchasedany cane from him, but I do like him as a person. Harry from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 5 07:47:09 2000 Sun, 5 Mar 2000 07:49:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo He normally cuts the6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each.Ifyou want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what you want.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com The cane I have from Cary is marked so that the cuts match up. I don't haveanycane that don't match. All of the 6' sections have the top and bottom fromthesame culm. I have the cane that will be at the Sowbug Roundup, it is alsomarked where the cuts were made. As Harry said in another message, hewill givea report on it.Harry, the dates are 17-18, you can come a day early and getsome fishing in.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from lblove@cableone.net Sun Mar 5 08:39:07 2000 Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Sun, 5 Mar 2000 07:38:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Howdy All,I ordered my first(and only) three culms from Cary. As a novice I cannot judge the quality to others cane, but I was very happy with the serviceand price. He was very responsive to my small order at Christmas timeandthere was no lag time to ship(order today, ship today). All three culmswere cut into 6' lengths and the saw marks matched up with the otherpiece.Though the cane was seasoned, it did make a few snaps and cracks when itarrived here in Odessa, Texas(the relitive humdity is about 15% on anaverage day). that is my 2 cents worth Brad----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo He normally cuts the6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each.Ifyou want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what youwant.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com The cane I have from Cary is marked so that the cuts match up. I don'thave anycane that don't match. All of the 6' sections have the top and bottomfromthesame culm. I have the cane that will be at the Sowbug Roundup, it is alsomarked where the cuts were made. As Harry said in another message, hewillgivea report on it.Harry, the dates are 17-18, you can come a day early andgetsome fishing in.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 08:57:07 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Cary Cane I wonder why Cary said my 6' sections are all from different culms?Maybe I better look again. As for his personality and service, I think he is excellent. Every e-mail I get from him has me in stitches. For example, "Why only 6' sections? You live in a cardboard box or something?" "How is chilly Buffalo, it's 80 here. Have a nice day." I like. I would buy from him again, as long as I am not missing out on how good the other cane out there really is. Any naysayers out there?Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bhoy@inmind.com Sun Mar 5 09:07:00 2000 with ESMTP id KAA19753 for ; Sun, 5 Mar Subject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from anovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line up exactly as they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectly reasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButt section, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod, where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip all to heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful about keeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the order around the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun Mar 5 09:25:54 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Culm If you are making a nodeless rod and don't order top quality culm, howmanyrods can you expect get from one culm?Ernie Harrison from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 5 09:41:09 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Hi Bill:When I built my first two nodeless rods, I paid really close attention that the sections were in order from butt to tip when I spliced them together. I did not worry about the order around the culm like you said. I don't really think this would matter.If I had a 6' section from the lower section of the culm, why not cut out 18 strips and build a butt and 2 tips from the same section? You wouldhave good strong fibers all around. I would not think that you would want thin power fibers in the tip necessarily. For example, if you are using the Bokstrom or Cattanach programs to get your tapers, aren't they figuring that the depth of power fiber is the same throughout the culm? This would be where the taper itself (depth) would change rod action. Wouldn't you want consistent fibers in each section and let the taper be the only variable? It seems like lower sections would be better for the whole rod. This would also make replacement strips easier.My 2 bits,Bob buildAt 10:03 AM 3/5/00 -0500, you wrote:With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from a novice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line up exactly as they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectly reasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in the Butt section, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod, where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip all to heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful about keeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the order around the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 10:13:01 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Hi Bill,It makes sense to me to use the butt pieces for the tip splines. It's a good spline for the butt section when building a rod, then you're ready when theunexpected happens.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from anovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip allto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful aboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the orderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 5 10:23:52 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy I have a question about the extra spline. How do you go about heat treatingasingle spine. Do you put it in the oven with the bundled strips in order togetthe same temper. Will the single strip take on more temper or get darkerthanthe rest. With an incident I recently had, I feel it is a good idea to have anextra spline ready to use.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi Bill,It makes sense to me to use the butt pieces for the tip splines. It's agood spline for the butt section when building a rod, then you're ready whentheunexpected happens.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Bill Hoy Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 7:03 AMSubject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question fromanovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip allto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful aboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the orderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 5 10:44:18 2000 Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:44:07 -0800 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Bill,Isn't this another of those "thousand little things" that is part ofdistinguishing a good rod from a great one? I'm not sure it matters much. But ifit matters even a little, and so do lots of other "little" things, then that'senough for me.I'm persnickety about keeping the sections in the same order theywere inthe culm. Others are not. One of the rodmaking authors suggests using onestrip from each of the six original split sections. That theory makes sense, butso dothe others. I've come up with "my way" of doing things, and it works forme. Sohave lots of you. Experimentation is a large part of the fun of buildingrods, atleast to me. Harry Bill Hoy wrote: With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a question from anovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated in theButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of the rod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tip allto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty careful aboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but the orderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 5 10:45:37 2000 Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:45:30 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Bamboo Tony Spezio wrote: He normally cuts the6' sections from different culms, getting the best 6' section from each.Ifyou want a 12' section cut in two halves, tell him that is what youwant.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com The cane I have from Cary is marked so that the cuts match up. I don'thave anycane that don't match. All of the 6' sections have the top and bottom from thesame culm. I have the cane that will be at the Sowbug Roundup, it is alsomarked where the cuts were made. As Harry said in another message, hewill givea report on it.Harry, the dates are 17-18, you can come a day early andgetsome fishing in.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com OOoh well, Tony -- Whatever the dates are, I'll be there. :-) And I bet Imanageto squeeze in a little fishing, too!! Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from stpete@netten.net Sun Mar 5 10:54:21 2000 Subject: Extra splines Tony and all, When I cut and split a culm, I have in mind at least two rods of thesame approximate length, sections, and weight range(4-5, 5-6, etc.) thatI want to build. I cut the 12' sections (I don't live in a carboardbox!) to the best lengths once I've decided the rod length and the # ofsections (2 vs 3). Then I split the entire culm out. I bought a bundle of Demarest's 2"to 2-1/2" cane about two years ago. Ihave always gotten enough splits to make two or three rods with plentyof splits left over. I take the time to pick out the best 12 tip splits for each rod and thebest six butt splits for each rod (and mids if I'm making 3 pc). Then Iget together the next best 6 tip splits, which I normally have, but if Idon't have 6 left, I'll put a butt strip or two in to make the 6. ThenI pick out the next best 6 butt strips. I now have five bundles of tip strips and three bundles of butt strips.I straighten and rough out all of them, keeping the 'second' selectionsseparate from the prime selections. When I heat treat, I treat each rod(I can handle up to four bundles in my oven) the same and then I treatthe 'seconds' the same. Now I'm ready for two rods and have some extrasin case I screw one up or find worm holes or other defects once I getplaning (which I have found occasionally). Every so often all goes welland I have enough extra splits for another rod. I know cane is the cheapest component in the rod, but why toss goodcane. I have nowhere to store reserved and marked sections of cane tomatch a previously built rod like Garrison did. I use it all. Tony, you know that culm I split at Sowbug last year? I made two 3-pc,two tipped rods out that one culm that I split in a hurry. With extrasplines to boot (not many though). I gave one 7-1/2' Cattanach 5 wt tomy B-in-law and I have the 8' 6wt 'The Force'. Rick C. from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 5 11:32:14 2000 Subject: Re: Extra splines Rick C wrote Tony, you know that culm I split at Sowbug last year? I made two 3-pc,two tipped rods out that one culm that I split in a hurry. With extrasplines to boot (not many though). I gave one 7-1/2' Cattanach 5 wt tomy B-in-law and I have the 8' 6wt 'The Force'. Rick C. Rick,You amazed a lot of people with you method of splitting last year. Iam from the old way of doing things" don't waste anything". I will have toadmit I have made 12 single tip blanks from six culms and still havestripsleft over to make one or two more blanks. I screwed up my first culm sobadthat I only got one rod with one tip from that culm. It only took one tolearn to do it right. In the first few I ignored some minor stains andspots. These were all " give away rods". Now I am looking for the beststrips I can get from a culm but still don't throw the rest away. I plan onmaking some Frankensteine rods when I have time.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Mar 5 13:22:59 2000 Subject: Moso rod I guess since my post about the Moso rod was right atthe time of the "Great Crash" a lot of listers didn't see it.I have been getting private emails inquiring about it. Moso makes a decent rod. It is a bit lighter in color, heattreating technique being equal, it is a bit slower and softerthan Tonkin, but I think with a little adjustment in the taperthat can be compensated for. If Tonkin was abundant andavailable I would use it, but if Tonkin ever became unavailable(as it did about 3 years ago), Moso is an ok substitute.Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 5 13:24:02 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:23:57 Subject: FW: Bamboo I had sent this directly to Steve but here it is reposted to the list: Hello Steve, Yes, a few rodmakers and I got together to split four bales of Chan's canetwo months ago. Overall, the quality was OK. The big problem was that theculms were smaller than advertised and the shipping was more thanadvertised. Few, if any of the culms were 2 inches in diameter. If Irecall, he advertises the culms as 2- 2.4 inches. Also, his site said theshipping is something like $59 for 3-4 bales. For some reason, it cost usabout $150 for four bales. On the positive side, overall, the culms werequite clean, free of blemishes, and very very dry. One rodmaker in our group received a bale that had many culms with slashmarks and bad crushes. We informed Mr Chan who sent us a check for $51as arebate. This, I feel, was a very classy move on Mr Chan's part. Anotherrodmaker in our group felt Chan's cane was better than Demarest's, fromwhom he had ordered in the past. My opinion is that Chan's cane is superior to Andy Royer's for lack ofblemishes and water marks but doesn't compare with Andy Royer's for sizeand heft. I ordered a bale of Andy's cane last year and it was amazing, bigheavy culms. I'd order from Chan again but only if Andy Royer's cane wasunavailable. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TrauthweinSent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 9:36 PM Subject: Bamboo All, Has anyone ordered any bamboo from Gary Chan in California? If so whatwas your take on the quality? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from chris@artistree.com Sun Mar 5 15:06:38 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Tony,I always keep the extra rough cut "leftovers" from previous jobs. When Ineed to heat treat a single or more spline, I mark it/them and bind itup with the "leftovers." Then heat treat. When the "leftovers" start tolook a little too dark I just toss them. Regards,Chris Wohlford Tony Spezio wrote: I have a question about the extra spline. How do you go about heattreating asingle spine. Do you put it in the oven with the bundled strips in order togetthe same temper. Will the single strip take on more temper or get darkerthanthe rest. With an incident I recently had, I feel it is a good idea to haveanextra spline ready to use.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 5 15:12:20 2000 Subject: Drying cabinet temp What temp should my drying cabinet temperature be? I seem to recallsomething like80 degrees F ?Shawn from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Mar 5 15:19:55 2000 Subject: Fwd: FW: Bamboo boundary="part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary" --part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary --part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary Full-name: Eastkoyfly Subject: Re: FW: Bamboo To the list,I got two bales from Imperial Bamboo A.K.A George Maruer/ Andy Royer. The cost was $150 per bale.The first bale I opened was O.K but the diameter was not 2-2.5,Then I opened the second bale and was not pleasedat all,it has many blemishes, worm holes,water marks , growers marks andabout 1"-1 1/2" diameter also three of the culms were crushed. All and all I'dsay that most of the second bale is not usable I guess I'm out $150. I have purchased culms from George before and have been very happy with it butthese did not cut it! --part1_ca.273deed.25f42955_boundary-- from jlintvet@erols.com Sun Mar 5 16:02:41 2000 ([207.172.244.145] helo=compaq) Subject: Re: Culm My $02. I don't think I have ever had a top-quality culm and I can almost alwaysgettwo rods worth of bamboo...however...it really matters how picky you are.There are probably only enough pieces for one really really clean blond rod from a sub-par culm. Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Culm If you are making a nodeless rod and don't order top quality culm, howmanyrods can you expect get from one culm?Ernie Harrison from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 18:30:11 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy I tie the extra spline to the outside of the bound packet of 6 splines andheat treat the whole works at the same time. Note too that the higheststress occurs in the tip section thus the rational for using the buttsection of the culm for the tips.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy I have a question about the extra spline. How do you go about heattreating asingle spine. Do you put it in the oven with the bundled strips in orderto getthe same temper. Will the single strip take on more temper or get darkerthanthe rest. With an incident I recently had, I feel it is a good idea tohave anextra spline ready to use.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi Bill,It makes sense to me to use the butt pieces for the tip splines. It's agood spline for the butt section when building a rod, then you're ready whentheunexpected happens.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Bill Hoy Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 7:03 AMSubject: bamboo philosophy With the recent posts about mixed culm halves, here's a questionfromanovice. Exactly how important is it to match tips to butts, etc.? I know garrison was very finicky about matching strips to line upexactlyas they grew on the stalk. On the other hand, I've heard perfectlyreasonable arguments for Frankenrods with strips from all differentculms. What about butts and tips? If the power fibers are concentrated intheButtsection, wouldn't it be better to put those strips in the tip of therod,where the added strength would be helpful? If I screw up a tip strip, would I be throwing the balance of the tipallto heck if I substituted a butt strip? I'm building nodeless for the first few rods. I'm pretty carefulaboutkeeping the scarfed sections in order from bottom to top, but theorderaround the ring is completely random. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill Hoy from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 18:47:01 2000 Subject: Re: Drying cabinet temp Here's another little trick of the trade: When drying my own rods coatedwith varnish I use a temperature of 110-120 degrees fahrenheit. But whenrefinishing an old rod that has imperfect glue joint I use a much lowertemperature of about 85-90 degrees F and find that this prevents bubbles from forming at the poor glue joint areas.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Drying cabinet temp What temp should my drying cabinet temperature be? I seem to recallsomething like80 degrees F ?Shawn from channer1@rmi.net Sun Mar 5 18:48:55 2000 Subject: Re: Culm Jon Lintvet wrote: My $02. I don't think I have ever had a top-quality culm and I can almost alwaysgettwo rods worth of bamboo...however...it really matters how picky you are.There are probably only enough pieces for one really really clean blondrod from a sub-par culm. Jon M. Lintvet Here's another 2c's worth from me, I got into flaming my cane becauseout of 3 suppliers i tried ,I couldn't get one rod's worth of stripsclean enough to make a blond rod, now I like the looks of a flamed rodmuch better and i think the flamed culms are easier to split, so all Ilook for is power fiber, as long as there is deep enough fiber I amhappy with what I get. John from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 5 20:28:19 2000 Subject: varnishing When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 5 20:49:01 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Franken Lathe Just an update,I thought that I should inform everyone of a mod Iwould suggest for anYone considering making this creature. I would extendthe plywood base out about a foot or so and put an adjustable supportthere to stabilize the end of the rod. Perhaps even one at each end.Itwouldn't take much just something to stop the rod from oselating toomuchbecause the oselations snowball very quickly! I detected this teethingproblem when my PHY Perfectionist almost beat itself (and me along withit)to death while I was turning the cork grip tonight! Maybe a slow speed forturning the cork would be good too!It is a good idea to check the set screws in the chuckoften because they do back off sometimes.All in all though once I stabilized the butt end the oleFranken lathe did a superb job of turning the cork. It passed all threetests. With a few minor adjustments I think this is a very good option forthe builder on a budget! Maybe once I get this sportsman's show out of theway I will sit down and draw out some plans and take pictures of the newimproved lathe to post! I will have access to a digital camera by then tooso hopefully the pics will be better than what I posted!Happytinkering, ShawnShawn Pineo wrote: OK,You guys asked for it! It looks cheesy but seems to work justfine for turning cork, prepping blanks for ferrules and lappingferrules.Parts consist of : 1 electric motor( I used a 1/6 Hp one, oldwashing machine motor will do fine).2 pillow blocks(the pieces withbearings),1 piece of thick wall 3/4" copper pipe, I made mine 18"long that the pipe fits securely in the pillow blocks) 2 brass couplings tofit on each end of pipe(I like the hex on the end because you justdrill a hole in every other flat at center and tap the holes,this givesthree points of contact on a hex rod! screw in 6 bolts of appropriatelength. You will also need 2 pulleys and a belt. I used a 1:1 ratio somy lathe turns at about 1725 RPM .The switch is an option. I used somescraps of wood to raise everything up on a small square of plywood.Put the pulley on the pipe and slide a pillow block on eitherend, then put the belt on and fasten down the pillows. Epoxy on thebrass fittings making sure that they are lined up perfectly with eachother, these are your chucks!!! Bolt on the motor and sit back, crack abeer,and laugh at your creation... Stop laughing when you realize howwell it works!Oh, when you put the rod thru, wrap masking tape or electricaltape around it to preserve rod at clamping points. tighten down (withinreason) I measure with my depth gauge part of my Vernier caliper tocenter the blank. Just keep adjusting till you get the same amount ofbolt sticking out at each spot.If there are any other questions/comments let me know, I'll try tohelp out. I think that the pictures will be fairly straight forwardthough.Sorry about the pic quality, my web cam isn't co-operating.Enjoy,Shawnpictures at http:www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage from jczimny@dol.net Sun Mar 5 20:56:06 2000 Subject: Re: varnishing Shawn,I think it wise to tape the ferrule. Varnish build-up on the welt is ugly.If you're varnishing with the wraps on use thin, automotive detailing taperight at the end of the thread wrap on the ferrule. If varnishing unwraped,just tape right past the end of the splits. Any mess here will be coveredbythe ferrule wraps. Any leakage is easily cleaned up within 24 hours with arag soaked in paint thinner.John Z Shawn Pineo wrote: When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from cadams46@juno.com Sun Mar 5 21:06:57 2000 22:06:08 EST Subject: Tripart 580 Does anyone know anything about a reel labeled Tripart 580. The Mrs. just came across it in a box of junk she bought at an auction. Lookslike a bait casting reel. Says something on the bottom about MEISSELBACH& BRO. Newark, N.J. USA 80 Yards. It seem to be missing somestuff on the side opposite the crank. Would be interested to know a bitabout this reel. ThanksCR Adams from caneman@clnk.com Sun Mar 5 21:45:36 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:42:24 -0600 Subject: Gary Howells Does anyone know what Gary Howells used for ferrule material? I justpickedup a GH Howells rod and the ferrules do NOT appear to be Nickel Silver.Just curious... By the way, a very very fine rod. 8 years old and neverfished. Looks like it was turned out yesterday. Later,Bob from georgewb@pacbell.net Sun Mar 5 22:19:16 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCtermann_Swiss_silk_thread?= boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0 Has anyone used G=FCtermann Swiss silk thread? I just ran across a =source for it and wondered if it was worthwhile for wrapping bamboo =rods. TIA,George ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0 Has anyone used GütermannSwiss = worthwhile for wrapping bamboo rods. TIA,George ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF86DF.E43A05A0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 5 22:22:15 2000 Subject: Re: Filler for less than ideal cork To all,I fill the small "gouges" with color preservative and sand the grip like the very devil-it ain't perfect but seems to last as long as any othermethod I've seen.Regards,Hank. from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 22:35:14 2000 Subject: Re: varnishing Hi Shawn,What works best for me is to wrap the female ferrule entirely withmaskingtape and twist off the end for a seal. The same for the male ferrule. Thetrick is to get the masking tape wound on evenly right next to the wrapthreads. After the rod is dry it's easy to peel off the tape and clean it upwith mineral spirits. I always hang the butt section from the reel seatwiththe ferrule down and the tip section from the tip top with the ferruledown.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: varnishing When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 5 22:57:31 2000 Subject: Re: Tripart 580 Hi Chase,The Tripart 580 was a Meisselbach bait casting reel built with a one pieceframe, single handle on the crank and a quick take down device built about1910. Meisselbach also built another one called the "Takeapart" during thesame period. from what I can find they are not highly valued.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tripart 580 Does anyone know anything about a reel labeled Tripart 580. The Mrs.just came across it in a box of junk she bought at an auction. Lookslike a bait casting reel. Says something on the bottom aboutMEISSELBACH& BRO. Newark, N.J. USA 80 Yards. It seem to be missing somestuff on the side opposite the crank. Would be interested to know a bitabout this reel. ThanksCR Adams from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Mar 6 04:51:49 2000 (204.186.33.24) Subject: Bamboo philosophy The reason the butt cane is used for the butt section and the tip caneis used for the tip section is the dimension of the power fibers of thebutt cane is thicker and is required in the butt of the rod which has alarger diameter You can use it for the tip but most will be planed awayand what you end up with you could have gotten with the tip of the culm.Unless you are making a surf, boat, or heavy Salmon rod it doesn't makeany sense to use the butt for tips. Marty from caneman@clnk.com Mon Mar 6 06:58:50 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:55:44 -0600 Subject: Thanks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20 Thanks to all who responded to the Howells rod question. May see if I =can find some of this stuff and play around with it a bit. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20 can find some of this stuff and play around with it a bit. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_01DF_01BF8739.466D0A20-- from bhoy@inmind.com Mon Mar 6 08:01:46 2000 Subject: Re: bamboo philosophy Thanks to everyone who responded with their thoughts about strip placement/bamboo philosphy. Learn by doing. Thanks, Bill Hoy Bill Hoy from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 6 09:16:46 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, depending onthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doable athome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rod oventodry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Mar 6 09:17:43 2000 KAA19334; Subject: Re: Bamboo I received a bale from Gary (the Bamboo Earl) before the holidays. WhileI am new to bamboo, the culm were all of uniform colour and diameter(~2-2.25"). I did buy his highest grade. There were NO insect holes,water marks, mold or cutters marks. He cut the pieces into 6' lengths andmarked the sections so I could (and did check) reconstruct each 12' culm.Delivery fast (arriving ~10 days from the order and cost only $31 fromCalifornia to North Carolina). The highest quality bale, with shipping,was $204 U.S.$. (no financial interest palaver included here).I am very pleased and would order from him again in a second.dws. Steve Trauthwein wrote: All, Has anyone ordered any bamboo from Gary Chan in California? If so whatwas your take on the quality? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 6 09:45:58 2000 Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:45:47 +0800 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do but youcan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats me toit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, depending onthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doable athome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rod oventodry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Mar 6 10:27:10 2000 (MET) Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part I've heard of the norwegian "cooper maker" (right term? the ones whomakesoak barrel to liqueur, whiskey, cognac etc.)have cut the cost in the manufacture, by drying the wood in a monstermicrowave oven. So I guess it will work...... danny I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do but youcan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats me toit. Tony --MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part Re: aging waxed wood blocks I've heard of the norwegian "cooper maker" (right term?the o=nes who makes oak barrel to liqueur, whiskey, cognac etc.) have cut the cost in the manufacture, by drying the wood in a monstermicro=wave oven. So I guess it will work...... danny you me=to it. --MS_Mac_OE_3035294693_53874_MIME_Part-- from bhoy@inmind.com Mon Mar 6 10:38:42 2000 Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:45:45 -0500 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in a special oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved wood would invite checking. bill hoy At 10:55 AM 3/6/00, Tony Young wrote:I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do but youcan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats me toit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, dependingonthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doable athome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rodoven todry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ Bill Hoy from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Mar 6 10:56:47 2000 Subject: Waxed Blocks As someone else pointed out, a completely waxed block of wood will havea real hard time drying out. If you have the time to airdry it (thinkin years) simply remove the wax from everywhere but about 1 inch fromthe end grain and the end grain itself. This is the spot wherechecking/splitting is likely to occur. If you'd like to speed up thedrying there are a variety of methods that amateur woodworkers use. The microwave works, but is likely to result in cellular damage as thecells split under the pressure of their own steam. Don't really knowhow this will effect the appearance or performance of the wood. You can use the oven, think about low temps (200 or 250 degrees) forseveral hours. I'm told this will really stink up the house. Wood doesnot smell like food when it cooks. If you have a finish drying cabinet that reaches temps in excess of 100degrees that will also substantially speed things up. Just leave it on,with the wood in it indefinitely. It would be worthwhile to weigh thewood if you have an accurate scale. This will allow you to periodicallycheck the weight, and you should see pretty fast progress as themoisture leaves. When the rate of drying slows down to almost nothing,i.e., when your scale shows leveling of the weight over a period of afew days, then you've got it pretty dry. Moisture meters are widelyavailable for a couple hundred bucks if you want to go that way. A lot of woodworkers build impromptu kilns. Useing a dehumidifier whichboth dries and heats the air and a plastic tarp you can cover a stack ofwood, turn the dehumidifier on and let it go. Amazing how hot it getsunder that tarp. Be careful that the dehumidifier does not get itsintake or outlets blocked by the tarp. This really only works forlarger volumes of wood than you're talking about. Finally, a lot of serious woodturners prefer to turn green wood. Itmills much easier. The turned piece is then stored in a paper grocerysack which allows air exchange but slows it down. YOu will lose a fewpieces, but most will make it. Final turning/polishing is accomplishedafter the piece is dry. Good luck. I'm thinking of turning a few spacers myself, without alathe, by rigging up a drill clamped to a bench. Would love to know howyours turn out. from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Mar 6 10:58:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:58:54 -0600 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks The Best of the Planing Form article states that the Pentacryl stuff doesitvery quickly, without cracking. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in aspecial oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved woodwould invite checking. bill hoy At 10:55 AM 3/6/00, Tony Young wrote:I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do butyoucan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats metoit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, dependingonthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doableathome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rodoven todry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ Bill Hoy from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 6 11:54:19 2000 Subject: Newbie needs help Atlanta List Members: A friend who lives in your area wants to startmaking bamboo fly rods. He took a rodmaking class quite some time back but hasbeen unable to persue the craft until recently. He would like either a mentor or at least a little help starting the process. If anyone in the Atlanta area would help, it would be much appreciated. If so, please e-mail me off list so that I may get you contacted. Best regards, Richard Tyree from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Mar 6 13:22:26 2000 SMTP id IAA13453; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:22:03 +1300 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Kiln drying of timber can be a quite complex process , which vary's fordifferent timber of different densities. Traditionally kiln drying involves the introduction of steam and heat intothe kiln and the gradual reduction of humidity in the kiln over 5 -10 days .The keeps all the timber at the same huminity and prevents splits andwarps.Drying rapidly from the outside will create problems. There are new types of Kilns which use a microwave process. I am notsurehow they work , and i suspect that they have to be built for only onetimberdensity range. The major problem with drying timber is to keep themoisturecontent constant through the timber as the moisture is reduced. It ismoisture differences across a piece of timber which causes splits andtwists. The more dense the timber the more difficult it is to preventsplitting. The use of wax etc on air dried sticks is intended to prevent theexterior of the stick drying much quicker then the centre. and I am not too sure of the relevence of this interesting information..(smile) Ian Kearney At 11:00 AM 6/03/00 -0500, Bill Hoy wrote:My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in a special oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved wood would invite checking. bill hoy from RSilver000@aol.com Mon Mar 6 13:41:05 2000 Subject: sealey rod Help! I have an Edgar Sealey bamboo rod, 3 piece 2 tip that I don't know what weight line to use. It says Brownie fly rod, No. 2 action. On the bag it says "octopus" fishing rod, Edgar Sealey and Sons, Reddich, England. In addition there are what look like mildrum srmc guides along the entirelength of the rod, instead of snake guides. I want to use the rod for fishing, should I leave as is or switch to conventional guides? Thanks guys, I amnew to this and in the process of trying to build my first bamboo rod, but want to also use what I've got already. Rob from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Mar 6 13:55:24 2000 Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks michael@wugate.wustl.edu List,As some of you know I build guns. I have cut or had someone else cut mywood slabs 2 1/2 "s thick and then we wax the ends. we then lay this wood up in abarn someplace or a building that has air moving thru it. We stack the wood sometimes 8 to 10 pieces high depending on how much we have, we leavean air space in between the wood of about 3"s so air will move around it. Nowmost of this wood we dry this way for a minimum of 3years and 5 if possible. Now I am not talking little slabs here I am talking of slabs that are 6-8 ft by 2 1/2 - 3 ft by 2 1/2"s. These are trees we are talking about. If you wantto try this yourself on a smaller scale plan on waiting a minimum of a year little pieces that you can use for reelseats. Don't forget to wax the end grains either or it will split just like your bamboo without a check splitin it. Bret from martinjensen@home.com Mon Mar 6 15:35:39 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Subject: RE: aging waxed wood blocks I want to thank the list for all the info I got on this subject.I have decided to cut the fully waxed pieces up in 1x1x5 pieces and soak inpentacryl for a week or so. Then dry for a few weeks and turn one and seewhat happens. I have a stock of about 25 previously made so I can turnjustone and see how it does over a little time. Regardless, it will be a littletime before I really need to break into this supply Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks The Best of the Planing Form article states that the Pentacryl stuff doesitvery quickly, without cracking. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks My understanding is that kiln dried wood is baked for days or weeks in aspecial oven to dry it slowly and evenly.Air dried wood takes a year or two. I would think that microwaved woodwould invite checking. bill hoy At 10:55 AM 3/6/00, Tony Young wrote:I'm uncertain as to the details or even if it's a good thing to do butyoucan use the microwave oven and nuke the wood to dry it.I know it's done and I'll see how and post it unless somebody beats metoit. Tony At 09:16 AM 3/6/00 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Brian snores...opps, I means seez... :-) Without using wood that is air or Kiln dried to 8% - 11% then youneed to realize that the wood is going to move and change, dependingonthe species. None of it was ever grown for us to use, after all! Brian, your comment got me wondering...is "air or Kiln" drying doableathome. Perhaps putting the wood in a regular home oven, or your rodoven todry it... Mike - all dried up - BiondoSt. Louis, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ Bill Hoy from rhd360@maine.edu Mon Mar 6 16:12:02 2000 Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Mon, 06Mar 2000 17:11:24 EST Subject: Re: aging waxed wood blocks Great question Martin and interesting responses. I cut cherry from mywoodloton occasion for reel seats and ferrule plugs. The use is important becauseitmeans that I'm rough cutting green wood into relatively small blocks so intheend the drying is quite a bit quicker than say if I were cutting largerstock. (Rough cut blocks are about 1.5" in thickness by about 12" in length thelater use and relatively small to facilitate drying.) I let the blocks airdry thinneron the end grain only with a bit of over lap on the sides. This mixture wassuggested by a list member some time ago. It works fine and definatelyreduceschecking but it doesn't entirely eliminate it. I've had some blocksdrying inmy house (on the top of bk shelfs where nobody notices and the aircirculationis fine) for a couple of years now but I would guess one year would beenough.--Bob. At 04:12 PM 3/4/00 -0800, Martin Jensen wrote:I just picked up some maple blocks for making reel seats. I am assumingthatit is fairly green. The blocks were waxed entirely. My question is, shouldthere be an unwaxed side on the blocks or is total waxing OK and abouthowlong should this stuff sit to age.One of the blocks is 3.5" x 6" x 12" and the other block is 5.5" x 5.5" x15".My guess is about a year but I really don't know Martin Jensen Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Mar 6 16:36:26 2000 (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id HAA02829; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:36:21+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3)with SMTP id HAA01392; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:36:20 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Moso rod Darryl, Have you completed your moso rod? Congraturation.How do you like it? Please let us know your impression orany specifics in making it a little more, if any. Yes, when Tonkin gets unavailable, there are a bunch of alternative caneslike, Moso, Madake, Hachiku and others. vist the URL below(English page). This dealer is merely a bamboowholeseller in general not the one forrod making. Visit them when you have a chance to visit Kyoto forsightseeing. http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/ Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 -----Original Message-----$B:9=P?M(B : DNHayashida@aol.com $B08@h(B : rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu $BF|;~(B : 2000$BG/(B3$B7n(B6$BF|(B 4:29$B7oL>(B : Moso rod I guess since my post about the Moso rod was right atthe time of the "Great Crash" a lot of listers didn't see it.I have been getting private emails inquiring about it. Moso makes a decent rod. It is a bit lighter in color, heattreating technique being equal, it is a bit slower and softerthan Tonkin, but I think with a little adjustment in the taperthat can be compensated for. If Tonkin was abundant andavailable I would use it, but if Tonkin ever became unavailable(as it did about 3 years ago), Moso is an ok substitute.Darryl from chris@artistree.com Mon Mar 6 16:36:35 2000 Subject: PENTACRYL Here is a copy of the Planing Form article for those that were interested. PENTACRYL by Chris Wohlford, San Mateo, CA One of the headaches of turning your own reel seats from various woodsespecially burled wood is the tendency for the material to crack andcheck. I recently expressed my frustration to some friends of mine whoturnburled woods into beautiful artistic bowls on the lathe. Theyrecommended I try a new product called PENTACRYL. The company whomanufactures this product first developed it for use in museums whichneeded a way to stabilize and preserve water logged wood. It probably should be first stated that wood treated with PENTACRYL isnotsame as wood that has been impregnated with an acrylic or othervarious solvent based resin formulations. These are usually done within avacuum and produce a stable, water proof and plastic looking endproduct. For the average rod builder the costs for this kind of setup areprohibitive and can be potential dangerous to operate. PENTACRYL, on the other hand is safe, non-toxic, fast working and easy touse. The end result is a stabilized piece of wood that can be turned orstored without fear of cracking or checking. It does not change the colorof the wood and it can be finished with conventional finishes and gluedwith conventional glues. The only two downfalls I have found are: 1) it'snot completely waterproof so your real seat treated with PENTACRYL willneed a finish such as urethane varnish. 2) it will not fill in holes orsoft spots found in some wood pieces. So you need to pick (or fill) yourwood carefully. The best way to use PENTACRYL is to immerse the wood turning block inthesolution for 24 hours for each inch in length. For a four inch long woodreal seat block, four days should just about do it. The ideal room temp.range while soaking should between 60Ÿ - 70Ÿ F. The container used canbeplastic or fiberglass but not made of metal. PENTACRYL actually works bycapillary action so the wetter or greener the wood the faster and moreeffectively it works. The amount of time needed for absorption also canvary depending on the grain, moisture content and type of wood you areusing so it's best to experiment with a few pieces before committing todoing a large quantity. After removing the wood from the PENTACRYL solution it needs to be lefttodry. PENTACRYL actually displaces the moisture (water molecules) in thewood. If the wood is left to dry on it's own with an ideal room temp of 60Ÿ- 70Ÿ F and relative humidity of 50%-55%, the piece could be dry within 2to 3 weeks. Longer for larger pieces. Another method of drying is to let itdry for a few days, then place the pieces in a cardboard box and put in thefreezer. Yes, the freezer. The water molecules will evaporate in thefreezer and this is the recommend procedure for wildly grained woods. Turning the wood on the lathe is fairly easy as the PENTACRYL actuallytends to lubricate the wood turning. Before applying a finish make sure thewood has thoroughly dried and most importantly wipe down the surfacewith asolvent such as mineral spirits or acetone. Pieces treated withPENTACRYLaccept just about every finish available including urethanes, varnishes andtung oil. It can even can be stained. I spoke with the folks who manufacture PENTACRYL and was supprized tolearnthat they were all ready aware that people might be using their products resin formulation that would also be waterproof. The biggest hurdle beingthat most water proof formulations would need a solvent based resin towork. Most of which are classified as hazardous materials. Creating aproduct that is safe for the general public to use and that will satisfyall the various individual state's environmental regulation's will not benot an easy task. I wish them luck. If you wish to contact the manufacture and/or purchase PENTACRYL theycan be reached at:Preservation Solutions1060 Bunker Hill RoadJefferson ME 04348phone: (207) 563-5414email: knobloch@lincoln.midcoast.com PENTACRYL can also be purchased through:Packard WoodworksPO. Box 718Tryon, NC 28782phone: (800) 683-8876 P.S. - Cost is approx. $15 for a quart, $45 a gallon. Best Regards,Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 6 16:39:07 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP ;Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:39:02 +0000 Subject: Re: varnishing If you dip tip end first you don't have to mask the male ferrule you justtape a hook to the male. Jack-----Original Message----- Subject: varnishing When varnishing, I know you are supposed to plug the end of the femaleferrule, but do you cover the ferrule as well or just varnish right overit? Obviously, the male must be masked .Also I was wondering if it matters which way you hang the rod to dryi.e by the butt or by the tip. I know it sounds kinda silly, but younever know with these things. Shawn from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 6 17:17:41 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP ;Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:17:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Moso rod If you want to see nodes take a look at the tortoise shell bamboo at theKyoto site! Jack -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Moso rod Darryl, Have you completed your moso rod? Congraturation.How do you like it? Please let us know your impression orany specifics in making it a little more, if any. Yes, when Tonkin gets unavailable, there are a bunch of alternative caneslike, Moso, Madake, Hachiku and others. vist the URL below(English page). This dealer is merely a bamboowholeseller in general not the one forrod making. Visit them when you have a chance to visit Kyoto forsightseeing. http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/ Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 -----Original Message-----$B:9=P?M(B : DNHayashida@aol.com $B08@h(B : rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu $BF|;~(B : 2000$BG/(B3$B7n(B6$BF|(B 4:29$B7oL>(B : Moso rod I guess since my post about the Moso rod was right atthe time of the "Great Crash" a lot of listers didn't see it.I have been getting private emails inquiring about it. Moso makes a decent rod. It is a bit lighter in color, heattreating technique being equal, it is a bit slower and softerthan Tonkin, but I think with a little adjustment in the taperthat can be compensated for. If Tonkin was abundant andavailable I would use it, but if Tonkin ever became unavailable(as it did about 3 years ago), Moso is an ok substitute.Darryl from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Mar 6 19:50:07 2000 E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 07 Mar 200009:49:01 +0800 (5.5.2650.21) Rodmakers Rodmakers Rodmakers Subject: RE: Gutermann Swiss silk thread Hi George,I tried some white Gutermann silk thread for a clear repairwrap and found it to be really fuzzy, as well as weak. There is muchbetterstuff around and, when you look at the cost of silk in the overall cost ofbuilding a rod, it makes no sense to cut corners. I wouldn't touchGutermann again if you paid me. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Gutermann Swiss silk thread Has anyone used Gutermann Swiss silk thread? I just ran across a sourceforit and wondered if it was worthwhile for wrapping bamboo rods. TIA,George from tklein@amgen.com Tue Mar 7 15:43:05 2000 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Moso rod Actually, I was impressed with the square bamboo! (ought to make quad construction a snap)---Tim ----------From: Jacques Follweiler[SMTP:JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 4:16 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Moso rod If you want to see nodes take a look at the tortoise shell bamboo at theKyoto site! Jack from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Mar 7 20:26:30 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: slow Are there problems with the list or is it really, really slow. Regards, Steve from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Mar 7 20:37:49 2000 Subject: Re: slow I was just thinking the same thing. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: slow Are there problems with the list or is it really, really slow. Regards, Steve from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Mar 7 20:57:39 2000 Subject: Re: slow Don't know, am not getting anu messages.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Steve Trauthwein wrote: Are there problems with the list or is it really, really slow. Regards, Steve from tlongair@home.com Tue Mar 7 21:39:36 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP Subject: heat treating Hi all,Am trying a blonde rod this time around. Searched the archives, (what agreat resource), unfortunately, perhaps as expected with a topic socontroversial I now have not a clear idea how long or how hot. Anyfavourite recipes out there? I have a hot air gun oven, want to temperthe cane but not discolour it. Thanks Terry Longair from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Mar 7 22:32:19 2000 Subject: Re: heat treating Hi Terry,I've used 350F for 11-12 minutes for a long time now and find it darkensthecane just a bit. For a blond rod I'd suggest 300-325F for 10 minuteswithoutthe use of ammonia carbonate.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: heat treating Hi all,Am trying a blonde rod this time around. Searched the archives, (what agreat resource), unfortunately, perhaps as expected with a topic socontroversial I now have not a clear idea how long or how hot. Anyfavourite recipes out there? I have a hot air gun oven, want to temperthe cane but not discolour it.Thanks Terry Longair from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Mar 7 22:37:40 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Sanding gizmo Here's something that's working pretty well for me as I sand the varnishcoats, FWIW. To get a nice flat surface, I put some Scotch doublesticky tape on about 4" of both sides of a one of those 6" flexiblesteel rules. Not the foam double sticky, it's TOO sticky, but the cleartype. Then I razor bladed 1200 grit sandpaper into 1/4" by 6" or sostrips. By wrapping the sandpaper up one side and down the other I geta double sided 3" 1200 grit "emery board". The steel rule is just stiffenough, and being nice and flat helps keep the corners from rounding.I'm sure there's lots of other ways to approach it, but this works good spots. When the strip gets loaded up, it peels off easy, and the nextstrip goes on in seconds. Keeps the wraps and flats nice and flat. Anyone got a good idea or gadget to sand underneath the stripper andsnakes? My rule is just a little too wide to make it underneath themconsistently or into the small tight spots. It looks like I'm gonnaneed "one more time" on the varnish - so I've still got a chance topolish under the guides just a little better before the last dip andwould appreciate any good ideas or tips. best regards to all mac from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 8 00:21:36 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Setting Forms Perplexed in Portland. Have new steel forms ( from Lon Blauvelt, not "hot"onessold out of the back of the car belonging to the person that took Bobs). Havebeen messing with practice cane on wooden form and have real culmflamed,split, rough planed and am attempting to set form to begin a rod. Have dial indicator, micrometer and depth gage w/60 deg point. Checked 2stations on the butt side using drills of .125 .115 and .107 diameter usingtheformula I saw posted here.drill .125.115 .107station 0 calculated depth .109 .1055.1065 .95 w/depth ind.station 5 " " .117.1155 .1165 .101 " Checked my measuring skills by using both micrometer and dial indicatoras wellas doing each station with each device and drill twice w/each, mic anddialind. Results were consistent.(+/- .001). Don't want to be anal about it, but does the max variation of .004 mean my60deg groove is off a tad? Or do I worry too much? Mike Leitheiser from martinjensen@home.com Wed Mar 8 00:33:02 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:32:59 -0800 Subject: RE: Setting Forms I'm a little confused but this is what I think you are saying. correct me ifI am wrong. You picked a spot and calculated the depth with the drill bitand micrometer method. Then you zeroed out your dial indicator and set itinthe same spot and measured about .004 difference right? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Setting Forms Perplexed in Portland. Have new steel forms ( from Lon Blauvelt, not "hot"onessold out of the back of the car belonging to the person that took Bobs).Havebeen messing with practice cane on wooden form and have real culmflamed,split, rough planed and am attempting to set form to begin a rod. Have dial indicator, micrometer and depth gage w/60 deg point. Checked 2stations on the butt side using drills of .125 .115 and .107 diameter usingtheformula I saw posted here.drill .125.115 .107station 0 calculated depth .109 .1055.1065 .95 w/depth ind.station 5 " " .117.1155 .1165 .101 " Checked my measuring skills by using both micrometer and dial indicatoraswellas doing each station with each device and drill twice w/each, mic anddialind. Results were consistent.(+/- .001). Don't want to be anal about it, but does the max variation of .004 mean my60deg groove is off a tad? Or do I worry too much? Mike Leitheiser from martinjensen@home.com Wed Mar 8 00:47:28 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:47:25 -0800 Subject: RE: Setting Forms Now..assuming that my last post is a fair description of what you meant, Iwould say the 60 degree point is flattened somewhat. If you think about it,it is almost impossible NOT to be flattened a little bit. I mean an absoluteperfect tip would flatten just a little as soon as you went to zero it outon the top of the form or break off in shipping. Probably just a little bitthough. Say maybe .004? When you use the drill bit method you arecalculating a depth. A round drill bit doesn't have any sharp sides to wearoff like a sharp tip. And of course you set the dial indicator to zero offthe tip but then you do the measuring off the sides of the form and theedges of the 60 degree point. Kinda unfair to the tip don't you think? Aslong as you know how much your tip is off you can simply adjust for it.What you could do now is to calculate the depth of any particular spot (asyou have done), then set you dial indicator in the same spot and then set itto the calculated depth. Now you have just calibrated your indicator! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Setting Forms Perplexed in Portland. Have new steel forms ( from Lon Blauvelt, not "hot"onessold out of the back of the car belonging to the person that took Bobs).Havebeen messing with practice cane on wooden form and have real culmflamed,split, rough planed and am attempting to set form to begin a rod. Have dial indicator, micrometer and depth gage w/60 deg point. Checked 2stations on the butt side using drills of .125 .115 and .107 diameter usingtheformula I saw posted here.drill .125.115 .107station 0 calculated depth .109 .1055.1065 .95 w/depth ind.station 5 " " .117.1155 .1165 .101 " Checked my measuring skills by using both micrometer and dial indicatoraswellas doing each station with each device and drill twice w/each, mic anddialind. Results were consistent.(+/- .001). Don't want to be anal about it, but does the max variation of .004 mean my60deg groove is off a tad? Or do I worry too much? Mike Leitheiser from georgewb@pacbell.net Wed Mar 8 01:00:32 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Thanks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF8888.884953E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF8888.884953E0 I didn't see a single response. (Were they all private?) What was it? =Monel? George-----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, March 06, 2000 5:03 AMSubject: Thanks Thanks to all who responded to the Howells rod question. May see if =I can find some of this stuff and play around with it a bit. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF8888.884953E0 I didn't see a single = George -----Original = = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thanks if I can find some of this stuff and play around with it a =bit. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF8888.884953E0-- from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Mar 8 06:17:31 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: Sanding gizmo Anyone got a good idea or gadget to sand underneath the stripper andsnakes? My rule is just a little too wide to make it underneath themconsistently or into the small tight spots. It looks like I'm gonna> need"one more time" on the varnish - so I've still got a chance topolish under the guides just a little better before the last dip andwould appreciate any good ideas or tips. Mac, I glue odd strips of 1200 grit to popsicle sticks. One can shape thepopsicle stick anyway required and then use yellow glue and springclamps. Ido a bunch at a time and have ready "emery boards". Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Mar 8 06:31:29 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update So far we have nine people that are interested in the order of tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 to make the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated that it would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. That may not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest in the order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the order Iwill send a request for your order by email and also a hard copy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 8 06:39:22 2000 Subject: Re: Sanding gizmo Mac & List:That sounds like a great tool. I've used something similar but yourssoundsbetter. Why don't you try cutting a 1/8" strip of an unwanted credit card,use the double-sided tape, and attach the sandpaper to one side of thestrip.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Sanding gizmo Here's something that's working pretty well for me as I sand the varnishcoats, FWIW. To get a nice flat surface, I put some Scotch doublesticky tape on about 4" of both sides of a one of those 6" flexiblesteel rules. Not the foam double sticky, it's TOO sticky, but the cleartype. Then I razor bladed 1200 grit sandpaper into 1/4" by 6" or sostrips. By wrapping the sandpaper up one side and down the other I geta double sided 3" 1200 grit "emery board". The steel rule is just stiffenough, and being nice and flat helps keep the corners from rounding.I'm sure there's lots of other ways to approach it, but this works good spots. When the strip gets loaded up, it peels off easy, and the nextstrip goes on in seconds. Keeps the wraps and flats nice and flat. Anyone got a good idea or gadget to sand underneath the stripper andsnakes? My rule is just a little too wide to make it underneath themconsistently or into the small tight spots. It looks like I'm gonnaneed "one more time" on the varnish - so I've still got a chance topolish under the guides just a little better before the last dip andwould appreciate any good ideas or tips. best regards to all mac from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 8 06:43:13 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:40:06 -0600 Subject: Howells Ferrule Material boundary="----=_NextPart_000_067F_01BF88C9.627E1F60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_067F_01BF88C9.627E1F60 OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrule =material that G. Howells and Winston use. For those of you that want to =know, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, =DuroBronze, Herculoy, Olympic Bronze, etc. It is Silicon Bronze, UNS # = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_067F_01BF88C9.627E1F60 OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrule = known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_067F_01BF88C9.627E1F60-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Mar 8 06:52:26 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:51:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Steve,I just received my first order of Snake brand guides, strippers,and tip tops. They are superb!! I want to order some more stuff already,unfortunately living here in Canada makes it a logistical nightmare to tryand joIn in these bulk orders. I wish I could take part in these big ordersbecause we pay a fortune up here for stuff.I needed a reel seat in a hurry so I ordered one from Hunters lastweek. I won't make that mistake again!! By the time the seat showed up atmydoor it cost me $120 plus!!! Ouch. The reason being: the $45 dollar reelseat (U.S. $), $11(U.S.) for shipping, then because it was sent by courier Ihad to pay customs/duty/brokerage fees, Provincial sales tax, andexchangerate. I usually just get people to pop it in the mail and that way all I payis exchange rate. And that is the way I will be trying to do it from now onwhenever possible!Shawn Steve Trauthwein wrote: So far we have nine people that are interested in the order of tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 to make the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated that it would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. That may not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest in the order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the order Iwill send a request for your order by email and also a hard copy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 8 06:53:37 2000 EAA19314; Subject: Re: Sanding gizmo Yup! That, I think, would do it - I'll try tonight. Thanks, Ed. I like thethin steel rule concept better than the popsicle sticks (had trouble gettingthedoublesticky to adhere well), but I couldn't think of a good material toworkwith for the smaller width dimensions I needed. AND, by using one of mywife'scredit cards for the material, I'll save money in the process! ;-) What aGREAT idea! mac Ed Riddle wrote: Mac & List:That sounds like a great tool. I've used something similar but yourssoundsbetter. Why don't you try cutting a 1/8" strip of an unwanted creditcard,use the double-sided tape, and attach the sandpaper to one side of thestrip.Ed-----Original Message-----From: Ralph MacKenzie Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 11:38 PMSubject: Sanding gizmo Here's something that's working pretty well for me as I sand thevarnishcoats, FWIW. To get a nice flat surface, I put some Scotch doublesticky tape on about 4" of both sides of a one of those 6" flexiblesteel rules. Not the foam double sticky, it's TOO sticky, but the cleartype. Then I razor bladed 1200 grit sandpaper into 1/4" by 6" or sostrips. By wrapping the sandpaper up one side and down the other I geta double sided 3" 1200 grit "emery board". The steel rule is just stiffenough, and being nice and flat helps keep the corners from rounding.I'm sure there's lots of other ways to approach it, but this works good spots. When the strip gets loaded up, it peels off easy, and the nextstrip goes on in seconds. Keeps the wraps and flats nice and flat. Anyone got a good idea or gadget to sand underneath the stripper andsnakes? My rule is just a little too wide to make it underneath themconsistently or into the small tight spots. It looks like I'm gonnaneed "one more time" on the varnish - so I've still got a chance topolish under the guides just a little better before the last dip andwould appreciate any good ideas or tips. best regards to all mac from listreader@codemarine.com Wed Mar 8 07:22:44 2000 SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Chris Smith SnakeGuide order -- status??? I hate to use the list for this, but I'm having trouble communicating withChris Smith. About a month ago, hestarted gathering requests for a group SnakeGuide order from Mike McCoy.Can anyone tell me the status of thisorder? Chris, if you're out there, please let us know the status. Others I've spokenwith have similar questions. Ifyou have placed the order, thank you. If you haven't yet done so, we'llunderstand, but please let us know oneway or the other. Thank you, and sorry again for having to resort to the list on this. --Steve from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 8 07:33:03 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:32:39 Subject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_dMQYsdMm9zhC37zWny4pCw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_dMQYsdMm9zhC37zWny4pCw) How does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevity offerrule life? Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: Howells Ferrule Material OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrulematerial that G. Howells and Winston use. For those of you that want toknow, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, DuroBronze,Herculoy, Olympic Bronze, etc. It is Silicon Bronze, UNS # C65500. Later,Bob --Boundary_(ID_dMQYsdMm9zhC37zWny4pCw) does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevity of = life? Richard NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 MaterialOK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrule= know, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, = Later,Bob --Boundary_(ID_dMQYsdMm9zhC37zWny4pCw)-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 8 07:33:05 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:30:57 Subject: RE: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Shawn, Mail ordering from the States is very hard on Canadians right now due tohigh duty and service charges. I placed an order with Cabela's last week the duty and service charges on my credit card and I said yes. The totalbill was $64 U.S. which is close to $100 cdn. So, I cancelled the order andfound the same shirt at a local shop for $34.99 cdn. If you want to save some money, buy your reel seats from a Canadiandistributor. A nickle silver downlocking Struble will cost you $38 cdn +shipping. Sliding band aluminimun ring Strubles with teak inserts are $20cdn. I just bought two aluminum uplocking Struble seats with cocoboloinserts for $28. I purchase all these from Le Moucheux here in Montreal: http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheux (450) 699-0769 The owner, Michel Lajoie, is perfectly bilingual (English and French) andspecializes in mail-order work. I was considering making my own reelseatsbut this quality at these prices have made me reconsider. I'm in no way associated with le Moucheux, just a happy customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Steve,I just received my first order of Snake brandguides, strippers,and tip tops. They are superb!! I want to order some morestuff already,unfortunately living here in Canada makes it a logisticalnightmare to tryand joIn in these bulk orders. I wish I could take part inthese big ordersbecause we pay a fortune up here for stuff.I needed a reel seat in a hurry so I ordered one fromHunters lastweek. I won't make that mistake again!! By the time the seatshowed up at mydoor it cost me $120 plus!!! Ouch. The reason being: the $45dollar reelseat (U.S. $), $11(U.S.) for shipping, then because it wassent by courier Ihad to pay customs/duty/brokerage fees, Provincial sales tax,and exchangerate. I usually just get people to pop it in the mail andthat way all I payis exchange rate. And that is the way I will be trying to doit from now onwhenever possible!Shawn Steve Trauthwein wrote: So far we have nine people that are interested in the orderof tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 tomake the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated thatit would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. Thatmay not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest inthe order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the order Iwill send a request for your order by email and also a hardcopy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 8 07:42:51 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:39:42 -0600 "'Rod Makers List Serve'" Subject: Re: Howells Ferrule Material boundary="----=_NextPart_000_06A9_01BF88D1.B4BA16A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_06A9_01BF88D1.B4BA16A0 Richard,I got on a website that gave corrosive natures of different metals =and according to the specs, this stuff should be around for a few =thousand years. Only things that it doesn't have excellent corrosion =resistance against are high concentrations of Ammonia and Carbon =Dioxide... As far as ratings on durability in normal atmosphere, salts, =etc., it was rated "excellent".Other properties... rated Tensile strength is superior to and more =consistent than 18% N.S. (SB=3D68000 NS=3D18-32000), Yeild iscomparable =(SB=3D30000 NS=3D18,000-32000), as is the Elongation (SB=3D17% =NS=3D11%-37%), Density is almost identical, so weight would not be a =factor. I couldn't find a hardness on the Silicon Bronze to compare it =to NS, but accoring to Anchor Bronze, Inc., it is easily machined and =very durable. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30 AMSubject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material How does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevity =of ferrule life? Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: Howells Ferrule Material OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the =ferrule material that G. Howells and Winston use. For those of you that =want to know, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, =DuroBronze, Herculoy, Olympic Bronze, etc. It is Silicon Bronze, UNS # = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_06A9_01BF88D1.B4BA16A0 Richard, corrosive natures of different metals and according to the specs, this = have excellent corrosion resistance against are high concentrations of = and Carbon Dioxide... As far as ratings on durability in normal = salts, etc., it was rated "excellent". Tensile strength is superior to and more consistent than 18% N.S. = NS=3D18-32000), Yeild is comparable (SB=3D30000 NS=3D18,000- 32000),as = Elongation (SB=3D17% NS=3D11%-37%), Density is almost identical, so = it to NS, but accoring to Anchor Bronze, Inc., it is easily machined and = durable. Later,Bob -----Original = caneman@clnk.com Serve' <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30 AMSubject: RE:Howells = MaterialHow does this material compare with = Richard = NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 = MaterialOK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the = want to know, it is known by several "trade" names... = Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_06A9_01BF88D1.B4BA16A0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Mar 8 07:43:24 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:42:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Richard,Yes it sucks and the worst part is that I'm not really happy withthe reel seat, the maple burl insert is pretty ugly, which really surprisedmeas it is a Bellingerseat. I order from Robert Vennnari, but he is really loaded down right nowandmy order wouldn't make it in time, I have a sportsman show coming up, soIfigured I would order 1 seat from Hunter's to get me a rod finished for theshow.I order my ferrules from Tony Young which works great because ofthe favorable exchange rate and his ferrules are great!I never have any problem (so far, knock on wood) when I get stuff haven'tbeen nailed yet? ;^)Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Shawn, Mail ordering from the States is very hard on Canadians right now due tohigh duty and service charges. I placed an order with Cabela's last week the duty and service charges on my credit card and I said yes. The totalbill was $64 U.S. which is close to $100 cdn. So, I cancelled the orderandfound the same shirt at a local shop for $34.99 cdn. If you want to save some money, buy your reel seats from a Canadiandistributor. A nickle silver downlocking Struble will cost you $38 cdn +shipping. Sliding band aluminimun ring Strubles with teak inserts are$20cdn. I just bought two aluminum uplocking Struble seats with cocoboloinserts for $28. I purchase all these from Le Moucheux here in Montreal: http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheux (450) 699-0769 The owner, Michel Lajoie, is perfectly bilingual (English and French) andspecializes in mail-order work. I was considering making my own reelseatsbut this quality at these prices have made me reconsider. I'm in no way associated with le Moucheux, just a happy customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Steve,I just received my first order of Snake brandguides, strippers,and tip tops. They are superb!! I want to order some morestuff already,unfortunately living here in Canada makes it a logisticalnightmare to tryand joIn in these bulk orders. I wish I could take part inthese big ordersbecause we pay a fortune up here for stuff.I needed a reel seat in a hurry so I ordered one fromHunters lastweek. I won't make that mistake again!! By the time the seatshowed up at mydoor it cost me $120 plus!!! Ouch. The reason being: the $45dollar reelseat (U.S. $), $11(U.S.) for shipping, then because it wassent by courier Ihad to pay customs/duty/brokerage fees, Provincial sales tax,and exchangerate. I usually just get people to pop it in the mail andthat way all I payis exchange rate. And that is the way I will be trying to doit from now onwhenever possible!Shawn Steve Trauthwein wrote: So far we have nine people that are interested in the orderof tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 tomake the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated thatit would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. Thatmay not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest inthe order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the order Iwill send a request for your order by email and also a hardcopy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 07:51:24 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:50:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Chris Smith SnakeGuide order -- status??? I must chime in here on the same subject, as I also send a check to covermyneeds for this mass buy. I just hope this wasn't some sort of a scam ! I'vehad enough problems with Belvoirdale, and the Bamboo Fly Rod, nothonoringpaid orders ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Chris Smith SnakeGuide order -- status??? I hate to use the list for this, but I'm having trouble communicating withChris Smith. About a month ago, he started gathering requests for a groupSnakeGuide order from Mike McCoy. Can anyone tell me the status of thisorder? Chris, if you're out there, please let us know the status. Others I'vespoken with have similar questions. If you have placed the order, thankyou.If you haven't yet done so, we'll understand, but please let us know onewayor the other. Thank you, and sorry again for having to resort to the list on this. --Steve from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 07:55:13 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:55:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Since I live close to the Mexico border, and do a great deal ofexporting/importing, I find this Canadian situation very strange ! It's asthough Canada signed the NAFTA deal, and promptly ignored it ! We havethousands of trucks crossing back and forth from Mexico every day, andtheNAFTA thing is working very well down here ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Shawn, Mail ordering from the States is very hard on Canadians right now due tohigh duty and service charges. I placed an order with Cabela's last week the duty and service charges on my credit card and I said yes. The totalbill was $64 U.S. which is close to $100 cdn. So, I cancelled the orderandfound the same shirt at a local shop for $34.99 cdn. If you want to save some money, buy your reel seats from a Canadiandistributor. A nickle silver downlocking Struble will cost you $38 cdn +shipping. Sliding band aluminimun ring Strubles with teak inserts are$20cdn. I just bought two aluminum uplocking Struble seats with cocoboloinserts for $28. I purchase all these from Le Moucheux here in Montreal: http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheux (450) 699-0769 The owner, Michel Lajoie, is perfectly bilingual (English and French) andspecializes in mail-order work. I was considering making my own reelseatsbut this quality at these prices have made me reconsider. I'm in no way associated with le Moucheux, just a happy customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Steve,I just received my first order of Snake brandguides, strippers,and tip tops. They are superb!! I want to order some morestuff already,unfortunately living here in Canada makes it a logisticalnightmare to tryand joIn in these bulk orders. I wish I could take part inthese big ordersbecause we pay a fortune up here for stuff.I needed a reel seat in a hurry so I ordered one fromHunters lastweek. I won't make that mistake again!! By the time the seatshowed up at mydoor it cost me $120 plus!!! Ouch. The reason being: the $45dollar reelseat (U.S. $), $11(U.S.) for shipping, then because it wassent by courier Ihad to pay customs/duty/brokerage fees, Provincial sales tax,and exchangerate. I usually just get people to pop it in the mail andthat way all I payis exchange rate. And that is the way I will be trying to doit from now onwhenever possible!Shawn Steve Trauthwein wrote: So far we have nine people that are interested in the orderof tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 tomake the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated thatit would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. Thatmay not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest inthe order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the order Iwill send a request for your order by email and also a hardcopy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 8 08:02:08 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:57:47 Subject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_MGw4KzX7ettHPWQ1V0L2wQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_MGw4KzX7ettHPWQ1V0L2wQ) Thanks, Bob, I'll try to track down a source for Silicone Bronze. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:41 AM Subject: Re: Howells Ferrule Material Richard,I got on a website that gave corrosive natures of different metalsand according to the specs, this stuff should be around for a few thousandyears. Only things that it doesn't have excellent corrosion resistanceagainst are high concentrations of Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide... As far asratings on durability in normal atmosphere, salts, etc., it was rated"excellent".Other properties... rated Tensile strength is superior to and moreconsistent than 18% N.S. (SB=68000 NS=18-32000), Yeild is comparable(SB=30000 NS=18,000-32000), as is the Elongation (SB=17% NS=11%-37%),Density is almost identical, so weight would not be a factor. I couldn'tfind a hardness on the Silicon Bronze to compare it to NS, but accoring toAnchor Bronze, Inc., it is easily machined and very durable. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30 AMSubject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material How does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevity offerrule life? Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: Howells Ferrule Material OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrulematerial that G. Howells and Winston use. For those of you that want toknow, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, DuroBronze,Herculoy, Olympic Bronze, etc. It is Silicon Bronze, UNS # C65500. Later,Bob --Boundary_(ID_MGw4KzX7ettHPWQ1V0L2wQ) Thanks, Bob, try to track down a source for Silicone Bronze. Richard NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:41 richard.nantel@videotron.ca; 'Rod Makers List = Howells Ferrule MaterialRichard, gave corrosive natures of different metals and according to the specs, = doesn't have excellent corrosion resistance against are high = Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide... As far as ratings on durability in = atmosphere, salts, etc., it was rated "excellent". Tensile strength is superior to and more consistent than 18% N.S. = NS=3D18-32000), Yeild is comparable (SB=3D30000 NS=3D18,000-32000), as = Elongation (SB=3D17% NS=3D11%-37%), Density is almost identical, so = compare it to NS, but accoring to Anchor Bronze, Inc., it is easily = and very durable. Later,Bob -----Original = caneman@clnk.com Serve' <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30 AMSubject: RE:Howells = MaterialHow does this material compare with = Richard NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 = MaterialOK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the = to know, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, = Later,=Bob --Boundary_(ID_MGw4KzX7ettHPWQ1V0L2wQ)-- from jcollier@siu.edu Wed Mar 8 08:02:20 2000 0600 0600 Subject: penrose method I'm almost finished with my forms. One problem: A can not get the bevelwithin a .001 tolerance as per his instructions. Has anyone else had thisproblem? I would say my tolerance is around .003 Thanks again guys John Collier from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Wed Mar 8 08:03:13 2000 Subject: Re: Chris Smith SnakeGuide order -- status??? Steve, I was curious about this as well. In fact, I was just considering resendingan email I sent to him a couple of weeks ago because I didn't receive aresponse. I'm assuming that he already placed the order. Keith I hate to use the list for this, but I'm having trouble communicating withChris Smith. About a month ago, he started gathering requests for a groupSnakeGuide order from Mike McCoy. Can anyone tell me the status of thisorder? Chris, if you're out there, please let us know the status. Others I'vespoken with have similar questions. If you have placed the order, thankyou.If you haven't yet done so, we'll understand, but please let us know onewayor the other. Thank you, and sorry again for having to resort to the list on this. --Steve from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 8 08:04:22 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:03:17 Subject: RE: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update saltwein@swbell.net I don't know the specifics of the free trade agreement but there isdefinitely duty charged on many items ordered from the U.S. includingbamboo culms, clothing, books, etc. In addition, whenever something isstopped at customs for duty processing, a service charge is added alongwith Federal and Provincial sales taxes. For some unknown reason, someshipments are stopped and others sneak through. I recently placed twoorders for books from Amazon.com and had one stopped and the other gothrough. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:57 AM saltwein@swbell.netCc: 'Rodmakers'Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Since I live close to the Mexico border, and do a great deal ofexporting/importing, I find this Canadian situation verystrange ! It's asthough Canada signed the NAFTA deal, and promptly ignored it ! We havethousands of trucks crossing back and forth from Mexico everyday, and theNAFTA thing is working very well down here ! GMA from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 8 08:23:23 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Setting Forms -------- Original Message -------- What I'm trying to say is that I used 3 different drill bit diameters atthesame station to calculate the depth and got 3 differentreadings....Using the.124 bit, the depth is .004 of the depth calculated with the other 2bits....thequery is does this mean my 60 deg groove is significantly off of 60 deg? Martin Jensen wrote: I'm a little confused but this is what I think you are saying. correct meifI am wrong. You picked a spot and calculated the depth with the drill bitand micrometer method. Then you zeroed out your dial indicator and setit inthe same spot and measured about .004 difference right? Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 10:19 PM Subject: Re: Setting Forms Perplexed in Portland. Have new steel forms ( from Lon Blauvelt, not"hot"onessold out of the back of the car belonging to the person that took Bobs).Havebeen messing with practice cane on wooden form and have real culmflamed,split, rough planed and am attempting to set form to begin a rod. Have dial indicator, micrometer and depth gage w/60 deg point. Checked2stations on the butt side using drills of .125 .115 and .107 diameterusingtheformula I saw posted here.drill .125.115 .107station 0 calculated depth .109 .1055.1065 .95 w/depth ind.station 5 " " .117.1155 .1165 .101 " Checked my measuring skills by using both micrometer and dial indicatoraswellas doing each station with each device and drill twice w/each, mic anddialind. Results were consistent.(+/- .001). Don't want to be anal about it, but does the max variation of .004 meanmy60deg groove is off a tad? Or do I worry too much? Mike Leitheiser --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from dpizza@access1.net Wed Mar 8 08:27:02 2000 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A2E7231B00D2; Wed, 08 Mar 2000 06:25:43 PDT Subject: Re: Chris Smith SnakeGuide order -- status??? Ditto here. David-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Chris Smith SnakeGuide order -- status??? Steve, I was curious about this as well. In fact, I was just consideringresendingan email I sent to him a couple of weeks ago because I didn't receive aresponse. I'm assuming that he already placed the order. Keith I hate to use the list for this, but I'm having trouble communicating withChris Smith. About a month ago, he started gathering requests for a groupSnakeGuide order from Mike McCoy. Can anyone tell me the status of thisorder? Chris, if you're out there, please let us know the status. Others I'vespoken with have similar questions. If you have placed the order, thankyou.If you haven't yet done so, we'll understand, but please let us know onewayor the other. Thank you, and sorry again for having to resort to the list on this. --Steve from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Mar 8 09:02:20 2000 0500 Subject: sense and sensibility Warning: this post is devoid of technical information. I spent most ofTown Meeting Day yesterday in my basement final planing the butt halfstrips muchof the list's attention is devoted to technical matters. Properly so. Butthe sensual aspects of our craft deserve mention, too, from time to time.What got me on this track was observing how the strip looks nestled inthegroove of my rock maple forms. The maple has that deceptively soft, tansheen maple gets, polished by the action of the plane's sole, with verylittle figure showing so it is mostly uniform with vague brownish linescurling through it in one or two places. Imagine staring down for a coupleof hours at forms made out of maple with a strong tiger or birds-eyepattern! You could get drawn in so deep to those silky undulations you'dnever get out. But what really intrigued me was the visual contrast withthe strip of bamboo running down the center, expecially when the canewasdown to the last few passes and almost flush with the top of the form. Thecane had a harder, brighter polish than the form, due of course to beingshaved by a scary sharp plane blade, and the dense power fibres gave it anoverall color kind of like milk chocolate which on closer examination wasmade up of a richer brown with fine, straight, yellowish striationsrunninglengthwise into intricate snarls at each node. This little river ofintricacy bedded in the maple's bland tan was genuinely beautiful, and it isreally for the sake of experiences like this that I have fallen in love withrodmaking. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 8 09:03:59 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:03:35 +0800 Subject: Re: Howells Ferrule Material "'Rod Makers List Serve'" types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_46351995==_.ALT" --=====================_46351995==_.ALT Silicon Bronze is what boat building ring nails are made from and outlastanything they're used in that's for sure and I mean by eons. They are quitehard and once bent are almost impossible to straighten as they workharden atthe bend so kink more than straighten which *may* indicate difficultworkingproperties in some alloys though I think ring nails are drawn so this mayjustaccount for the hardness due to work hardening and it may in fact machinewell.It's used all over my boat as chain plates and the screws in SS turnbucklesandrigging screws to avoid galling which you'd get if you only used either allSSor all Si Bronze so there's no doubt it's strong and not prone to too muchelongation.One thing to keep in mind when looking at the bronzes is it *seems* that alotof different metals alloyed with copper give more or less the sameresults asfar as strength and elongation and modulus of elasticity go but somealloysarebetter for specific purposes. Si Bronze is in normal conditionsalmostindestructable so far as corrosion goes as is the same for most ofthe bronzesbut it's also good for welding and is quite hard so it makes good propshafts I think the nickel in NS actually makes a harder alloy than Si Bronze butit'sharder to machine and possibly more brittle in the harder alloys. Bob notesSiBronze has a higher tensile strength but I think the elongation ratings aremore significant for ferrules.NS also does well in the marine enviroment, I notice you can get NS sailtrackand cleats for the Herrishoff 12 1/2 and Fish class boats in the place of SiBronze but it looks too much like SS for my tastes in these boats.If you want the absolute in hardness, non elongation and resistance tofatiguetry some Beryllium-copper.Beryllium has the highest strength/weight ratio of any known metal thisside ofAlpha Centori and is alloyed 2% Beryllium 98% copper and has yeildstrengthsapproaching 100,000 psi and tensile strength of around 150,000 psi,which ispretty out there. It's cost almost puts it in the unobtanium range but I'vetried using it and it's fine. So if you have some lying about (???) try it.I've messed about with most of the available bronzes and really think NSisthebest choice in all when you consider it's cost, workability and actual fieldresults. Having said that I love the colour of the red bronzes and will be usingPhosphor Bronze for my own rods.Phosphor Bronze (NOT LG2 sold for bearings and bushes) and Si Bronze*appear*to make ferrules that work as well as each other though I guess you'dexpectless elongation from the Si Bronze, maybe and both seem to go as long asNSones according to people using them. I *don't* like the shine of NS however so I suggest you get some of DaveLeClair's NS oxidiser, which also works with the other bronzes as well. Surely there is a metalurgist on the list to put us all out of our collectivemisery re. the various properties of the bronzes and give a gut feelingaboutit all? Tony At 07:41 AM 3/8/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Richard,I got on a website that gave corrosive natures of different metals andaccording to the specs, this stuff should be around for a few thousandyears. Only things that it doesn't have excellent corrosion resistanceagainst are high concentrations of Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide... As farasratings on durability in normal atmosphere, salts, etc., it was rated"excellent".Other properties... rated Tensile strength is superior to and moreconsistent than 18% N.S. (SB=68000 NS=18-32000), Yeild is comparable(SB=30000 NS=18,000-32000), as is the Elongation (SB=17% NS=11%-37%),Densityis almost identical, so weight would not be a factor. I couldn't find ahardness on the Silicon Bronze to compare it to NS, but accoring toAnchorBronze, Inc., it is easily machined and very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- From: Richard Nantelrichard.nantel@videotron.ca> caneman@clnk.com> 'Rod Makers List Serve'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30 AM Subject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material How does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevity offerrule life? Richard -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: Howells Ferrule Material OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrulematerialthat G. Howells and Winston use. For those of you that want to know, itisknown by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, DuroBronze,Herculoy,Olympic Bronze, etc. It is Silicon Bronze, UNS # C65500. Later, Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_46351995==_.ALT Silicon Bronze is what boat building ring nails are made from and outlastanything they're used in that's for sure and I mean by eons. They arequite hard and once bent are almost impossible to straighten as they workharden at the bend so kink more than straighten which *may* indicatedifficult working properties in some alloys though I think ring nails aredrawn so this may just account for the hardness due to work hardening andit may in fact machine well.It's used all over my boat as chain plates and the screws in SSturnbuckles and rigging screws to avoid galling which you'd get if youonly used either all SS or all Si Bronze so there's no doubt it's strongand not prone to too much elongation.One thing to keep in mind when looking at the bronzes is it *seems* thata lot of different metals alloyed with copper give more or less the sameresults as far as strength and elongation and modulus of elasticity gobut some alloys are better for specific purposes. Si Bronze is in normalconditions almost indestructable so far as corrosion goes as is the same so it makes good prop shafts for eg.I think the nickel in NS actually makes a harder alloy than Si Bronze butit's harder to machine and possibly more brittle in the harder alloys.Bob notes Si Bronze has a higher tensile strength but I think theelongation ratings are more significant for ferrules.NS also does well in the marine enviroment, I notice you can get NS sailtrack and cleats for the Herrishoff 12 1/2 and Fish class boats in theplace of Si Bronze but it looks too much like SS for my tastes in theseboats.If you want the absolute in hardness, non elongation and resistance tofatigue try some Beryllium-copper.Beryllium has the highest strength/weight ratio of any known metal thisside of Alpha Centori and is alloyed 2% Beryllium 98% copper and hasyeild strengths approaching 100,000 psi and tensile strength of around150,000 psi, which is pretty out there. It's cost almost puts it in theunobtanium range but I've tried using it and it's fine. So if you havesome lying about (???) try it.I've messed about with most of the available bronzes and really think NSis the best choice in all when you consider it's cost, workability andactual field results. Having said that I love the colour of the red bronzes and will be usingPhosphor Bronze for my own rods.Phosphor Bronze (NOT LG2 sold for bearings and bushes) and Si Bronze*appear* to make ferrules that work as well as each other though I guessyou'd expect less elongation from the Si Bronze, maybe and both seem to I *don't* like the shine of NS however so I suggest you get some of DaveLeClair's NS oxidiser, which also works with the other bronzes aswell. Surely there is a metalurgist on the list to put us all out of ourcollective misery re. the various properties of the bronzes and give agut feeling about it all? Tony At 07:41 AM 3/8/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Richard, natures of different metals and according to the specs, this stuff should have excellent corrosion resistance against are high concentrations ofAmmonia and Carbon Dioxide... As far as ratings on durability in normalatmosphere, salts, etc., it was rated "excellent". strength is superior to and more consistent than 18% N.S. (SB=68000NS=18-32000), Yeild is comparable (SB=30000 NS=18,000- 32000), as istheElongation (SB=17% NS=11%-37%), Density is almost identical, so weight Bronze to compare it to NS, but accoring to Anchor Bronze, Inc., it iseasily machined and very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel caneman@clnk.com 'Rod Makers List Serve' Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30AMSubject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material How does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevityof ferrule life? Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu[ Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42AM Subject: Howells Ferrule Material OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrule want to know, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Later,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_46351995==_.ALT-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 8 09:04:09 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:03:32 +0800 Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update "'Rodmakers'" Most countrys have a limit for incoming values when using post. Australiahas one of $50 meaning Big Bro doesn't bother if the taxable value returnsless than $50 but he springs when it is, I can tell you.It's worth looking into it before importing anything. I know of a personout here who imported a planing form and I *heard* it cost him just on$Aust 2,000 by the time the shouting was over and that was back in thegoodold days of a favourable Aust/US dollar exchange rate. If he did it nowhe'd be up for a quite a few hundred more. Couriers will always cost you more as they just collect any tax due as amatter of course. Tony At 08:40 AM 3/8/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Richard,Yes it sucks and the worst part is that I'm not really happywiththe reel seat, the maple burl insert is pretty ugly, which reallysurprised meas it is a Bellingerseat. I order from Robert Vennnari, but he is really loaded down right nowandmy order wouldn't make it in time, I have a sportsman show coming up, soIfigured I would order 1 seat from Hunter's to get me a rod finished fortheshow.I order my ferrules from Tony Young which works great becauseofthe favorable exchange rate and his ferrules are great!I never have any problem (so far, knock on wood) when I get stuffsent through the mail, then I just pay the exchange rate. Maybe I justhaven'tbeen nailed yet? ;^)Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Shawn, Mail ordering from the States is very hard on Canadians right now duetohigh duty and service charges. I placed an order with Cabela's last week the duty and service charges on my credit card and I said yes. The totalbill was $64 U.S. which is close to $100 cdn. So, I cancelled the orderandfound the same shirt at a local shop for $34.99 cdn. If you want to save some money, buy your reel seats from a Canadiandistributor. A nickle silver downlocking Struble will cost you $38 cdn +shipping. Sliding band aluminimun ring Strubles with teak inserts are$20cdn. I just bought two aluminum uplocking Struble seats with cocoboloinserts for $28. I purchase all these from Le Moucheux here in Montreal: http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheux (450) 699-0769 The owner, Michel Lajoie, is perfectly bilingual (English and French) andspecializes in mail-order work. I was considering making my own reelseatsbut this quality at these prices have made me reconsider. I'm in no way associated with le Moucheux, just a happy customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Steve,I just received my first order of Snake brandguides, strippers,and tip tops. They are superb!! I want to order some morestuff already,unfortunately living here in Canada makes it a logisticalnightmare to tryand joIn in these bulk orders. I wish I could take part inthese big ordersbecause we pay a fortune up here for stuff.I needed a reel seat in a hurry so I ordered one fromHunters lastweek. I won't make that mistake again!! By the time the seatshowed up at mydoor it cost me $120 plus!!! Ouch. The reason being: the $45dollar reelseat (U.S. $), $11(U.S.) for shipping, then because it wassent by courier Ihad to pay customs/duty/brokerage fees, Provincial sales tax,and exchangerate. I usually just get people to pop it in the mail andthat way all I payis exchange rate. And that is the way I will be trying to doit from now onwhenever possible!Shawn Steve Trauthwein wrote: So far we have nine people that are interested in the orderof tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 tomake the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated thatit would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. Thatmay not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest inthe order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the order Iwill send a request for your order by email and also a hardcopy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 8 09:08:11 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:07:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update , "'Rodmakers'" I think it's a hangover from the British Empire, they made their empire from dutys and taxes and still do! Tony At 07:57 AM 3/8/00 -0600, nobler wrote:Since I live close to the Mexico border, and do a great deal ofexporting/importing, I find this Canadian situation very strange ! It's asthough Canada signed the NAFTA deal, and promptly ignored it ! We havethousands of trucks crossing back and forth from Mexico every day, andtheNAFTA thing is working very well down here ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Richard Nantel" Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:59 AMSubject: RE: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Shawn, Mail ordering from the States is very hard on Canadians right now duetohigh duty and service charges. I placed an order with Cabela's last week the duty and service charges on my credit card and I said yes. The totalbill was $64 U.S. which is close to $100 cdn. So, I cancelled the orderandfound the same shirt at a local shop for $34.99 cdn. If you want to save some money, buy your reel seats from a Canadiandistributor. A nickle silver downlocking Struble will cost you $38 cdn +shipping. Sliding band aluminimun ring Strubles with teak inserts are$20cdn. I just bought two aluminum uplocking Struble seats with cocoboloinserts for $28. I purchase all these from Le Moucheux here in Montreal: http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheux (450) 699-0769 The owner, Michel Lajoie, is perfectly bilingual (English and French) andspecializes in mail-order work. I was considering making my own reelseatsbut this quality at these prices have made me reconsider. I'm in no way associated with le Moucheux, just a happy customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Steve,I just received my first order of Snake brandguides, strippers,and tip tops. They are superb!! I want to order some morestuff already,unfortunately living here in Canada makes it a logisticalnightmare to tryand joIn in these bulk orders. I wish I could take part inthese big ordersbecause we pay a fortune up here for stuff.I needed a reel seat in a hurry so I ordered one fromHunters lastweek. I won't make that mistake again!! By the time the seatshowed up at mydoor it cost me $120 plus!!! Ouch. The reason being: the $45dollar reelseat (U.S. $), $11(U.S.) for shipping, then because it wassent by courier Ihad to pay customs/duty/brokerage fees, Provincial sales tax,and exchangerate. I usually just get people to pop it in the mail andthat way all I payis exchange rate. And that is the way I will be trying to doit from now onwhenever possible!Shawn Steve Trauthwein wrote: So far we have nine people that are interested in the orderof tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 tomake the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated thatit would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. Thatmay not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest inthe order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the order Iwill send a request for your order by email and also a hardcopy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 8 09:08:53 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:08:22 +0800 Subject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_46620650==_.ALT" --=====================_46620650==_.ALT Richard,just look in the phone book under non ferrous metals. Tony At 08:26 AM 3/8/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote: Thanks, Bob, I'll try to track down a source for Silicone Bronze. Richard -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:41 AM Subject: Re: Howells Ferrule Material Richard, I got on a website that gave corrosive natures of different metalsandaccording to the specs, this stuff should be around for a few thousandyears. Only things that it doesn't have excellent corrosion resistanceagainst are high concentrations of Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide... As farasratings on durability in normal atmosphere, salts, etc., it was rated"excellent". Other properties... rated Tensile strength is superior to and moreconsistent than 18% N.S. (SB=68000 NS=18-32000), Yeild is comparable(SB=30000 NS=18,000-32000), as is the Elongation (SB=17% NS=11%-37%),Density is almost identical, so weight would not be a factor. I couldn'tfind a hardness on the Silicon Bronze to compare it to NS, but accoringtoAnchor Bronze, Inc., it is easily machined and very durable. Later, Bob -----Original Message----- From: Richard Nantelrichard.nantel@videotron.ca> caneman@clnk.com> 'Rod Makers List Serve'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30 AM Subject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material How does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevity offerrule life? Richard -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: Howells Ferrule Material OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrulematerialthat G. Howells and Winston use. For those of you that want to know, itisknown by several "trade" names... Everdur, Duronze, DuroBronze,Herculoy,Olympic Bronze, etc. It is Silicon Bronze, UNS # C65500. Later, Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_46620650==_.ALT Richard,just look in the phone book under non ferrous metals. Tony At 08:26 AM 3/8/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote: Thanks,Bob, I'll try to track down asource for Silicone Bronze. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu[ Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:41AM Serve'Subject: Re: Howells Ferrule Material Richard, different metals and according to the specs, this stuff should be around excellent corrosion resistance against are high concentrations ofAmmoniaand Carbon Dioxide... As far as ratings on durability in normalatmosphere, salts, etc., it was rated"excellent". superior to and more consistent than 18% N.S. (SB=68000 NS=18- 32000),Yeild is comparable (SB=30000 NS=18,000-32000), as is the Elongation(SB=17% NS=11%-37%), Density is almost identical, so weight would notbe compare it to NS, but accoring to Anchor Bronze, Inc., it is easilymachined and very durable. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel caneman@clnk.com 'Rod Makers List Serve' Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:30AMSubject: RE: Howells Ferrule Material How does this material compare with nickle silver for the longevityof ferrule life? Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu[ Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:42AM Subject: Howells Ferrule Material OK, Thanks to everyone who told me the trade names of the ferrule want to know, it is known by several "trade" names... Everdur, Later,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_46620650==_.ALT-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 8 09:14:06 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:08:38 Subject: RE: sense and sensibility Seth, I think you need to take a cold shower. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:06 AM Subject: sense and sensibility Warning: this post is devoid of technical information. I spent most ofTown Meeting Day yesterday in my basement final planing the butt half strips thinking how muchof the list's attention is devoted to technical matters. Properly so. Butthe sensual aspects of our craft deserve mention, too, from time to time.What got me on this track was observing how the strip looks nestled in thegroove of my rock maple forms. The maple has that deceptively soft, tansheen maple gets, polished by the action of the plane's sole, with verylittle figure showing so it is mostly uniform with vague brownish linescurling through it in one or two places. Imagine staring down for a coupleof hours at forms made out of maple with a strong tiger or birds-eyepattern! You could get drawn in so deep to those silky undulations you'dnever get out. But what really intrigued me was the visual contrast withthe strip of bamboo running down the center, expecially when the cane wasdown to the last few passes and almost flush with the top of the form. Thecane had a harder, brighter polish than the form, due of course to beingshaved by a scary sharp plane blade, and the dense power fibres gave it anoverall color kind of like milk chocolate which on closer examination wasmade up of a richer brown with fine, straight, yellowish striations runninglengthwise into intricate snarls at each node. This little river ofintricacy bedded in the maple's bland tan was genuinely beautiful, and it isreally for the sake of experiences like this that I have fallen in love withrodmaking. from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 09:15:26 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:04:26 -0600 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update I ship and receive from many countries, all the time. If anyone needs toknow the "ropes", contact me off list. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Most countrys have a limit for incoming values when using post.Australiahas one of $50 meaning Big Bro doesn't bother if the taxable valuereturnsless than $50 but he springs when it is, I can tell you.It's worth looking into it before importing anything. I know of a personout here who imported a planing form and I *heard* it cost him just on$Aust 2,000 by the time the shouting was over and that was back in thegoodold days of a favourable Aust/US dollar exchange rate. If he did it nowhe'd be up for a quite a few hundred more.Couriers will always cost you more as they just collect any tax due as amatter of course. Tony At 08:40 AM 3/8/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Richard,Yes it sucks and the worst part is that I'm not really happywiththe reel seat, the maple burl insert is pretty ugly, which reallysurprised meas it is a Bellingerseat. I order from Robert Vennnari, but he is really loaded down rightnowandmy order wouldn't make it in time, I have a sportsman show coming up,soIfigured I would order 1 seat from Hunter's to get me a rod finished fortheshow.I order my ferrules from Tony Young which works great becauseofthe favorable exchange rate and his ferrules are great!I never have any problem (so far, knock on wood) when I getstuffsent through the mail, then I just pay the exchange rate. Maybe I justhaven'tbeen nailed yet? ;^)Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Shawn, Mail ordering from the States is very hard on Canadians right now duetohigh duty and service charges. I placed an order with Cabela's lastweek prepaythe duty and service charges on my credit card and I said yes. Thetotalbill was $64 U.S. which is close to $100 cdn. So, I cancelled the orderandfound the same shirt at a local shop for $34.99 cdn. If you want to save some money, buy your reel seats from a Canadiandistributor. A nickle silver downlocking Struble will cost you $38 cdn+shipping. Sliding band aluminimun ring Strubles with teak inserts are$20cdn. I just bought two aluminum uplocking Struble seats with cocoboloinserts for $28. I purchase all these from Le Moucheux here inMontreal: http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheux (450) 699-0769 The owner, Michel Lajoie, is perfectly bilingual (English and French)andspecializes in mail-order work. I was considering making my own reelseatsbut this quality at these prices have made me reconsider. I'm in no way associated with le Moucheux, just a happy customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu PineoSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Snake Brand Tiptop/Order Update Steve,I just received my first order of Snake brandguides, strippers,and tip tops. They are superb!! I want to order some morestuff already,unfortunately living here in Canada makes it a logisticalnightmare to tryand joIn in these bulk orders. I wish I could take part inthese big ordersbecause we pay a fortune up here for stuff.I needed a reel seat in a hurry so I ordered one fromHunters lastweek. I won't make that mistake again!! By the time the seatshowed up at mydoor it cost me $120 plus!!! Ouch. The reason being: the $45dollar reelseat (U.S. $), $11(U.S.) for shipping, then because it wassent by courier Ihad to pay customs/duty/brokerage fees, Provincial sales tax,and exchangerate. I usually just get people to pop it in the mail andthat way all I payis exchange rate. And that is the way I will be trying to doit from now onwhenever possible!Shawn Steve Trauthwein wrote: So far we have nine people that are interested in the orderof tiptops from Mike McCoy. We will probably need another 4 or 5 tomake the limit The last communication that I had with Mike indicated thatit would beseveral weeks before the bronze tiptops are available. Thatmay not be aproblem, with the time it is taking to drum up interest inthe order. When we have a sufficient number of people interested in the orderIwill send a request for your order by email and also a hardcopy withremission of the funds required. I will keep you posted on the progress. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Mar 8 09:38:36 2000 Subject: Ferrule Material It's a bit premature to write about an experiment I am working on, but let me ask you guys the questions that got me started: Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions? Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration? Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section? Darryl from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 8 09:47:56 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:47:41 +0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule Material Don't forget a lot of graphite rod break at the ferrules. Tony At 10:37 AM 3/8/00 -0500, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: It's a bit premature to write about an experiment I am working on, but let me ask you guys the questions that got me started: Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions? Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration? Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section? Darryl /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 8 09:52:12 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:48:40 Subject: RE: Ferrule Material Darryl, In my humble opinion, wouldn't it be easier to make a female sleeve andglue it to the end of the butt section than to try to make such a dramaticswell at the bottom of the tip section? The result would be similar to theOrvis graphite ferrules. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Ferrule Material It's a bit premature to write about an experimentI am working on, but let me ask you guys thequestions that got me started: Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions? Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration? Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section? Darryl from ernie2@pacbell.net Wed Mar 8 09:56:02 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Stanley Sureform and File Has any one tried using a tool called a Stanley Sureform plane and a file todo the planing work instead of the customary 8" carpenter plane and 6"lowangle plane?Ernie from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 8 10:02:31 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:59:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Material boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07E0_01BF88E5.2E9EA360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07E0_01BF88E5.2E9EA360 Darryl Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions?Well, they don't have a need to discuss ferrule material. They are =building rods from blanks that have the ferrules built onto them from =the factory. As far as manufacturers go, I would have to guess that =they use graphite ferrules on graphite rods to 1. Keep the look of the =rod the as consistent as possible from one end to the other, and 2. Keep =the expense of building down by sticking with as few materials as they =can. (graphite rod, graphite ferrule) Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration?Because when you have a tapered blank, it is easier to use a tapered =ferrule (in saying that, remember that the blanks are mass produced on =tapered mandrels, not indvidually like bamboo rods) and if they use the =tip over butt configuration, then they don't have to worry about having =a perfectly straight ferrule (I mean as far as dimensions) from one end =to the other. If the taper is continued into the ferrule area, then =they have a taper fit, much like the Morris taper in the tailstock on =your lathe. This way, if they get ferrule wear, which is more likely =with graphite than it is with Nickel silver, then the ferrule will =merely seat a hair deeper and still have a great fit. Again, there is =also a monetary consideration in the manufacturing point. Much faster I =would imagine to build the blanks on their mandrels tapered the entire =length, then use a ferrule of the same taper simply attached to the tip =section, then it is to have to "form" a straight spot on the graphite =blank to accomodate a butt over tip ferrule Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section?Cuz it would be ugly! :^) Seriously, if you went to this type of =ferrule, you would have to redesign all of your tapers drastically. If =you put enough material into the tip to "swell" the butt to accomodate a ="tip over butt" ferrule, then your stress curve is going to swing from =the far north to the deep south in a big hurry. The casting =characteristics of the rod would be drastically different. Besides =that, I feel that the graphite manufacturers went to tip over butt =ferrules for cost savings and convenience in production more than =anything else. I can't see where a tip over butt ferrule on a cane rod =would save either money or time. Just my 2 cents,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrule Material questions that got me started: Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions? Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration? Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section? Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_07E0_01BF88E5.2E9EA360 Darryl = = would have to guess that they use graphite ferrules on graphite rods to = Keep the look of the rod the as consistent as possible from one end to = other, and 2. Keep the expense of building down by sticking with as materials as they can. (graphite rod, graphite ferrule) Because when you have a tapered blank, it is easier to use a = ferrule (in saying that, remember that the blanks are mass produced on = mandrels, not indvidually like bamboo rods) and if they use the tip over = configuration, then they don't have to worry about having a perfectly = taper is continued into the ferrule area, then they have a taper fit, = ferrule wear, which is more likely with graphite than it is with Nickel = tapered the entire length, then use a ferrule of the same taper simply = to the tip section, then it is to have to "form" a straight = the graphite blank to accomodate a butt over tip ferrule Seriously, if you went to this type of ferrule, you would have to = "swell" the butt to accomodate a "tip over butt" = then your stress curve is going to swing from the far north to the deep = tip over butt ferrules for cost savings and convenience in production = would save either money or time. Just my 2 cents,Bob-----Original Message-----From:DNHayashida@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = do = ------=_NextPart_000_07E0_01BF88E5.2E9EA360-- from brewer@teleport.com Wed Mar 8 10:04:55 2000 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0WbeCF; Wed Mar 808:04:47 2000 Subject: Re: sense and sensibility Ah, the roar of the blowtorch, the smell of the varnish... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: sense and sensibility Warning: this post is devoid of technical information. I spent most ofTown Meeting Day yesterday in my basement final planing the butt halfstrips muchof the list's attention is devoted to technical matters. Properly so. Butthe sensual aspects of our craft deserve mention, too, from time to time.What got me on this track was observing how the strip looks nestled inthegroove of my rock maple forms. The maple has that deceptively soft, tansheen maple gets, polished by the action of the plane's sole, with verylittle figure showing so it is mostly uniform with vague brownish linescurling through it in one or two places. Imagine staring down for a coupleof hours at forms made out of maple with a strong tiger or birds-eyepattern! You could get drawn in so deep to those silky undulations you'dnever get out. But what really intrigued me was the visual contrast withthe strip of bamboo running down the center, expecially when the canewasdown to the last few passes and almost flush with the top of the form. Thecane had a harder, brighter polish than the form, due of course to beingshaved by a scary sharp plane blade, and the dense power fibres gave it anoverall color kind of like milk chocolate which on closer examination wasmade up of a richer brown with fine, straight, yellowish striationsrunninglengthwise into intricate snarls at each node. This little river ofintricacy bedded in the maple's bland tan was genuinely beautiful, and it isreally for the sake of experiences like this that I have fallen in love withrodmaking. from ernie2@pacbell.net Wed Mar 8 10:08:07 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Ferrule Material Darryl,The first rod I ever had using a tip over butt configuration was aFenwick Ferrulite Fiberglass rod. It was great and I still have it aftermany years use. I think the advantage commercial makers have found withtipover butt is smaller diameter ferrules and less weight.Ernie -----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrule Material It's a bit premature to write about an experimentI am working on, but let me ask you guys thequestions that got me started: Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions? Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration? Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section? Darryl from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Mar 8 10:17:20 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:17:17 -0500 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Stanley Sureform and File Hard to imagine how a Stanley Sureform could possibly work well on cane.It's basically a rasp. I'd guess you'd have trouble getting it to bite,and, if it did, it would chew up the strip so bad you'd never be able tofile the marks out. Kind of like using a cheese grater on pine.Also once it dulled how would you resharpen it? -----Original Message-----From: Ernie Harrison [SMTP:ernie2@pacbell.net]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:52 AM Subject: Stanley Sureform and File Has any one tried using a tool called a Stanley Sureform plane and a filetodo the planing work instead of the customary 8" carpenter plane and 6"lowangle plane?Ernie from leroyt@involved.com Wed Mar 8 10:27:19 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:27:14 -0800 Subject: RE: Ferrule Material boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF88D9.FB8A7860" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF88D9.FB8A7860 A list member was working on a fiber glass ferrule. Have done some workonit also as it has some better characteristics the graphite.Leroy..-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule Material Darryl Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions?Well, they don't have a need to discuss ferrule material. They arebuilding rods from blanks that have the ferrules built onto them from thefactory. As far as manufacturers go, I would have to guess that they usegraphite ferrules on graphite rods to 1. Keep the look of the rod the asconsistent as possible from one end to the other, and 2. Keep the expenseofbuilding down by sticking with as few materials as they can. (graphiterod,graphite ferrule) Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration?Because when you have a tapered blank, it is easier to use a taperedferrule (in saying that, remember that the blanks are mass produced ontapered mandrels, not indvidually like bamboo rods) and if they use the tipover butt configuration, then they don't have to worry about having aperfectly straight ferrule (I mean as far as dimensions) from one end totheother. If the taper is continued into the ferrule area, then they have ataper fit, much like the Morris taper in the tailstock on your lathe. Thisway, if they get ferrule wear, which is more likely with graphite than itiswith Nickel silver, then the ferrule will merely seat a hair deeper andstill have a great fit. Again, there is also a monetary consideration inthe manufacturing point. Much faster I would imagine to build the blanksontheir mandrels tapered the entire length, then use a ferrule of the sametaper simply attached to the tip section, then it is to have to "form" astraight spot on the graphite blank to accomodate a butt over tip ferrule Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section?Cuz it would be ugly! :^) Seriously, if you went to this type offerrule, you would have to redesign all of your tapers drastically. If youput enough material into the tip to "swell" the butt to accomodate a "tipover butt" ferrule, then your stress curve is going to swing from the farnorth to the deep south in a big hurry. The casting characteristics of therod would be drastically different. Besides that, I feel that the graphitemanufacturers went to tip over butt ferrules for cost savings andconvenience in production more than anything else. I can't see where a tipover butt ferrule on a cane rod would save either money or time. Just my 2 cents,Bob-----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:37 AMSubject: Ferrule Material It's a bit premature to write about an experimentI am working on, but let me ask you guys thequestions that got me started: Why don't graphite rod builders have ferrule materialdiscussions? Why do I see so many graphite rod makers going tothe tip over butt ferrule configuration? Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section? Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF88D9.FB8A7860 member was working on a fiber glass ferrule. Have done some work on it = it has some better characteristics the graphite. Leroy.. NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:01 DNHayashida@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:Re: = MaterialDarryl = go, I would have to guess that they use graphite ferrules on graphite = to the other, and 2. Keep the expense of building down by sticking = materials as they can. (graphite rod, graphite ferrule) Because when you have a tapered blank, it is easier to use a = ferrule (in saying that, remember that the blanks are mass produced on = mandrels, not indvidually like bamboo rods) and if they use the tip = configuration, then they don't have to worry about having a perfectly = taper is continued into the ferrule area, then they have a taper fit, = get ferrule wear, which is more likely with graphite than it is with = silver, then the ferrule will merely seat a hair deeper and still have = tapered the entire length, then use a ferrule of the same taper simply = attached to the tip section, then it is to have to "form" a straight = the graphite blank to accomodate a butt over tip ferrule ferrule, you would have to redesign all of your tapers = you put enough material into the tip to "swell" the butt to accomodate = over butt" ferrule, then your stress curve is going to swing from the = graphite manufacturers went to tip over butt ferrules for cost savings = tip over butt ferrule on a cane rod would save either money or =time. Just my 2 cents,Bob-----Original Message-----From: =DNHayashida@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = = ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF88D9.FB8A7860-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Mar 8 10:44:28 2000 Subject: Re: Ferrule Material The first two questions were rhetorical, just whatgot me thinking along these lines. As for your last answer below, ugly is in the eyeof the beholder :-) Besides that, what I am tryingis a slightly swelled end on the tip, and the buttsection turned down to fit in a tapered hole.Why would a bamboo tip over butt ferrule affect theaction any more than the stiff, unbending, heavy, metalferrules do now?It would save me money because I wouldn't have to buya ferrule.Darryl Why can't the tip over butt ferrule be duplicatedon a bamboo rod? If I can make a swelled butt rod,can't I make a swelled end on a tip section?Cuz it would be ugly! :^) Seriously, if you went to this type of ferrule,you would have to redesign allof your tapers drastically. If you put enough material into the tip to"swell" the butt to accomodate a "tipover butt" ferrule, then your stress curve is going to swing from the farnorth to the deep south in a bighurry. The casting characteristics of the rod would be drasticallydifferent. Besides that, I feel that thegraphite manufacturers went to tip over butt ferrules for cost savings andconvenience in production more thananything else. I can't see where a tip over butt ferrule on a cane rod wouldsave either money or time. Just my 2 cents,Bob from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Mar 8 11:35:22 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: 2nd Annual Bishop California Gathering in October Hi Gang, Chuck and I are in the preliminary planning stages of this year's BishopGathering. Tenatively, we are looking at around the October 20- 22weekend.(Chuck, correct me if I'm mistaken) We need input from others if this date will conflict with any of the otherGatherings previously scheduled as we wish to avoid any conflicting dates. I guess it will be at Chucks place again for lack of another place and hewas a kind and gracious host. Of course we were all drooling over his hugeworkshop! Maybe someone who tracks all the Gatherings could post a list of them, orifmakers who know of a gathering, would you please post the date and I canmake a list of gatherings this year... Last year we had a lot of fun, got to cast a lot of new and vintage rods,consumed lots of chili and beer, got to look at a lot of need tools,machines and got to see what others were doing... It was a small, informal gathering with around 15-20 participants inattendance. Lots of places to fish within a short drive of Chuck's house... Here's some pics of last years gathering... http://www.bamboorods.homepage.com/gwbishop.htm I hope this years gathering will provide for a larger turnout... we hadpeople come from as far away as Oregon... Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com P.S. I apologize to those I upset regarding the commercial post. I justthought listers would like to know about scarce items, that, like me,mighthave been looking for a long time to find something. I knew I could ask afellow lister to mention it and be within the rules, but I felt that wouldbe deceptive. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 11:36:58 2000 Subject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrules continueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from dhaftel@att.com Wed Mar 8 11:53:52 2000 MAA02013 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, I have had a similar experience in my limited stint as a "maker". Are yousure they're not just dirty? My ferrules tend to oxidize and collect dirt from my hands as they age. I clean them with a bit of isopropyl alcohol onoccasion. It does the trick for me. I would try giving them a goodcleaning before doing any refitting. Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrules continueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 8 12:10:08 2000 Subject: Re: Stanley Sureform and File Yes and I didn't care for it.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Stanley Sureform and File Has any one tried using a tool called a Stanley Sureform plane and a filetodo the planing work instead of the customary 8" carpenter plane and 6"lowangle plane?Ernie from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Mar 8 12:34:33 2000 Subject: RE: Ferrule Material Definite possibilty, but the way I am trying to dothis - drilling a tapered hole in the swelled endof the tip and turning the butt tip end down tofit in, has fibers from about the same depth rubbingagainst each other, If in fact they do even touch.I think it's going to be polyurethane varnish rubbingagainst polyurethane varnish.Also, if this doesn't work, or if it does wear outprematurely I can always install a NS ferrule later.No harm, no foul...Darryl just something to think about here. . . if you make a bamboo ferule, the hard outer power fibers of the malesectionwill be in contact with the relatively softer inner fibers of the female.it seems to me that this would produce accelerated wear on the female,andif the ferrules are an intergral part of the rod you can't replace themwhenthey wear out. just my 2 cents from jczimny@dol.net Wed Mar 8 12:35:17 2000 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry,I've noticed the same problem. I believe what happens is that the caneswells slightly when it absorbs additional moisture from the air. I doesn'thave to "move" the metal more than a 10th or two to create a problem.Just polish the males down a bit and there should be no further problems.John Z Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrules continueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 8 13:02:31 2000 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Hi Harry,I'm translating your comments to mean that the ferrule to ferrule fit isnowloose. I would think that this means it may have been fitted so that it wasonly tight in one spot when made and now that that spot is worn down abitit feels loose. Or perhaps there was some foreign material inside thefemaleand gave an initial false reading of being tight. Concentrating on beingsure the ferrule fits over its entire length and is clean and lubricatedwith light oil will help.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Subject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrules continueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Mar 8 13:27:30 2000 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA28333 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA12831 for Subject: Re: Ferrule Material (fwd) I've been experimenting a little with a one piece hexagonal ferrulesleeve that would be mounted on the tip. My first fabrication plan didn't work too well and I'm on to the second. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to work on it lately; too many other projects and minor crises. I'll certainly let the list know if I succeed. We had a discussion of this last May, if you like reading the archives.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 13:36:32 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:36:26 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: Harry, I have had a similar experience in my limited stint as a "maker". Are yousure they're not just dirty? My ferrules tend to oxidize and collect dirt from my hands as they age. I clean them with a bit of isopropyl alcoholonoccasion. It does the trick for me. I would try giving them a goodcleaning before doing any refitting. Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:35 PM Subject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrules continueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ Dennis,A good cleaning won't correct the problem. Even a good polishing withsteel wool is not enough. I don't have the rod in hand yet, but I'm sure itwill take removing just a hair more metal to make it fit correctly. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 13:39:08 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:38:59 -0800 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Ray Gould wrote: Hi Harry,I'm translating your comments to mean that the ferrule to ferrule fit isnowloose. I would think that this means it may have been fitted so that itwasonly tight in one spot when made and now that that spot is worn down abitit feels loose. Or perhaps there was some foreign material inside thefemaleand gave an initial false reading of being tight. Concentrating on beingsure the ferrule fits over its entire length and is clean and lubricatedwith light oil will help.Ray ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:35 AMSubject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrulescontinueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ Ray,I should have made it more clear that the ferrules are now too tightrather than too loose. The male cannot readily be inserted into the female. Orif it is forced in, then separating the sections is very difficult. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 13:43:21 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:43:05 -0800 Subject: Re: 2nd Annual Bishop California Gathering in October "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Hi Gang, Chuck and I are in the preliminary planning stages of this year's BishopGathering. Tenatively, we are looking at around the October 20- 22weekend.(Chuck, correct me if I'm mistaken) We need input from others if this date will conflict with any of theotherGatherings previously scheduled as we wish to avoid any conflictingdates. I guess it will be at Chucks place again for lack of another place and hewas a kind and gracious host. Of course we were all drooling over hishugeworkshop! Maybe someone who tracks all the Gatherings could post a list of them,or ifmakers who know of a gathering, would you please post the date and Icanmake a list of gatherings this year... Last year we had a lot of fun, got to cast a lot of new and vintage rods,consumed lots of chili and beer, got to look at a lot of need tools,machines and got to see what others were doing... It was a small, informal gathering with around 15-20 participants inattendance. Lots of places to fish within a short drive of Chuck's house... Here's some pics of last years gathering... http://www.bamboorods.homepage.com/gwbishop.htm I hope this years gathering will provide for a larger turnout... we hadpeople come from as far away as Oregon... Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com P.S. I apologize to those I upset regarding the commercial post. I justthought listers would like to know about scarce items, that, like me,mighthave been looking for a long time to find something. I knew I could ask afellow lister to mention it and be within the rules, but I felt that wouldbe deceptive. Darrell,Our Southern Rodmakers Gathering is scheduled for October 26-28. Though thedates don't conflict, they are close enough to keep some folks fromattendingboth meetings. Mark Metcalf at BFR tries to keep a current schedule of thevarious gatherings. You might check his websire. Harry from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Mar 8 13:51:29 2000 0500 Subject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" I think Dennis is right. I have seen this on some high quality rods aswell as my own (a Parker for instance). As for the couple I have made,the phenomenon has saved me because while I am overly cautious abouteverything else, I tend to over do my male end (no comments please).After a couple months they seem to fit just right! -----Original Message----- J,CSCIO Subject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, I have had a similar experience in my limited stint as a "maker". Areyousure they're not just dirty? My ferrules tend to oxidize and collectdirt from my hands as they age. I clean them with a bit of isopropylalcohol onoccasion. It does the trick for me. I would try giving them a goodcleaning before doing any refitting. Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice.Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrulescontinueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 8 14:05:44 2000 12:07:11 PST Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related toexpansion in the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the male slidearea to some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't correct theproblem then dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only otherfactor would be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver then itwould seem that the female would expand as well and the fit would remain fine,but since it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be expanding(which is more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferrule connection surfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide area sothat must be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a normal amountof moisture content over time following your procedures that initiallyremoved a lot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules and the fit then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that the rodwas returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months for it todo that. Just guessing on all this. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- Ray Gould wrote: Hi Harry,I'm translating your comments to mean that the ferrule to ferrule fit isnowloose. I would think that this means it may have been fitted so that itwasonly tight in one spot when made and now that that spot is worn down abitit feels loose. Or perhaps there was some foreign material inside thefemaleand gave an initial false reading of being tight. Concentrating on beingsure the ferrule fits over its entire length and is clean and lubricatedwith light oil will help.Ray ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:35 AMSubject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrulescontinueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ Ray,I should have made it more clear that the ferrules are now too tightrather than too loose. The male cannot readily be inserted into the female. Orif it is forced in, then separating the sections is very difficult. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Mar 8 14:17:48 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:17:36 -0500 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within the cells ofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisture staysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again by absorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe that's notsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb atmosphericmoisture and swell anyway, ruining your careful ferrule fit. -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related toexpansion in the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the maleslidearea to some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't correct theproblem then dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only otherfactor would be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver then itwould seem that the female would expand as well and the fit would remainfine,but since it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be expanding(which is more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferrule connection surfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide area sothat must be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a normalamountof moisture content over time following your procedures that initiallyremoved a lot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules and the fit then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that the rodwas returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months for it todo that. Just guessing on all this. Chris from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 8 14:32:28 2000 12:33:54 PST Subject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" O.K. The difficult part would then be to determine what level of moistureremoval would be that perfect amount for the environment the rod will live in,which would be impossible to know of course. I keep my bamboo "in progress" inside my home when not working on it,which is a very dry environment. I assume that over time, moisture does moveback into the finished rod in some amount depending on finish type, wax, environment, flamed vs. blonde, etc., but I don't lose any sleep over it. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within the cells ofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisture staysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again by absorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe that's notsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb atmosphericmoisture and swell anyway, ruining your careful ferrule fit. -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related toexpansion in the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the maleslidearea to some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't correct theproblem then dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only otherfactor would be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver then itwould seem that the female would expand as well and the fit would remainfine,but since it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be expanding(which is more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferrule connection surfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide area sothat must be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a normalamountof moisture content over time following your procedures that initiallyremoved a lot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules and the fit then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that the rodwas returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months for it todo that. Just guessing on all this. Chris from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 8 14:55:14 2000 Subject: Mini-tool source Got my Micro-Mark (small tool specialist) catalog today. Though aimed atmodel makers, it has lots of goodies useful to the rodmaker and rodrestorer. On-line at www.micromark.com .Usual disclaimer, no financial interest, blah, blah.Ed from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Mar 8 15:12:15 2000 Subject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" It's also another indication that, IMHO, all the stuff about thewater-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil bad) ismostly beside the point. I suspect rods are not really sealed in either caseand adjust their moisture content to ambient conditions. I even read a postrecently in which we were instructed to be sure to use a good varnishinstead of tung oil to keep out moisture, while in the same message weweretold not to varnish the blank under the cork. How does the moisture knownotto penetrate the cork? And then there are those who soak their stripsbeforeplaning, and come out with rods just as lively as any other. I'm being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense to thosewith different views. But it is one of many common ideas about rodmakingwhich, while advocated confidently, do not seem to be based on anysystematic data. Maybe it's more fun that way. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within the cellsofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisture staysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again by absorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe that's notsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb atmosphericmoisture and swell anyway, ruining your careful ferrule fit. -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related toexpansion in the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the maleslidearea to some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't correct theproblem then dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only otherfactor would be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver thenitwould seem that the female would expand as well and the fit would remainfine,but since it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be expanding(which is more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferruleconnection surfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide area sothat must be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a normalamountof moisture content over time following your procedures that initiallyremoved a lot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules and thefit then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that therodwas returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months forit todo that. Just guessing on all this. Chris from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 15:16:32 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:16:12 -0800 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related toexpansionin the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the maleslide areato some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't correct theproblemthen dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only otherfactorwould be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver then itwouldseem that the female would expand as well and the fit would remainfine, butsince it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be expanding(whichis more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferrule connectionsurfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide area sothatmust be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a normalamount ofmoisture content over time following your procedures that initiallyremoved alot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules and the fitthen remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that the rodwasreturning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months for it todothat. Just guessing on all this. Chris Chris,I'm inclined to agree with you and John. The bamboo is causing someveryslight swelling of the NS ferrules. But I'm just guessing.I have started including a small strip of 1000 grit sandpaper, a padof0000 steel wool, and detailed instructions on fitting ferrules with mycompletedrods. Also, I'll gladly re-fit the ferrules myself on any rod sent back tome. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 15:16:36 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:16:23 -0800 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Seth,I thought about allowing the strips to breathe a little more, butabandoned the idea. The main reason I keep the humidity as low aspossiblewhile making rods is to be sure all the strips say the size they were whenIfinished planing them. Once in a while, I will be several weeks betweenstrips. If I allowed some of those strips to soak up moisture, then thereis achance that they might deviate enough to cause glue lines, poor flat to flatdimensions, etc.I think that would be a bigger problem than having to take a little1000 g sandpaper to the male ferrules a few months after the rod iscompleted. Harry Seth Steinzor wrote: Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within the cellsofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisturestaysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again by absorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe that's notsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb atmosphericmoisture and swell anyway, ruining your careful ferrule fit. from rhd360@maine.edu Wed Mar 8 15:32:03 2000 Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 08Mar 2000 16:31:25 EST Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, I had a similar problem last June. My house is admittedly very dry,andblanks are always stored in a dry box at 75 degrees F. I had finished asalmonrod took it down to the river, lots of spray in the air, heavy water etc. Idid hook a salmon that night which was nice given it was the first time Ihadcast or used the rod. After a couple of hours of fishing, went up to thetruck comingapart. We tried the "four hands" method of separation etc. Just stuck ascould be. Fortunately I had enough rod tubes with me to cover it up andrestthe rod in the bed of the truck for the ride home. I ended up having to icedown the ferrule and then apply heat. Came right apart. I assumed thatthiswas the result of some swelling of the cane under the male section due totheabsorbsion of water. I had to refitted the male with a bit of 1000 grit. Ihaven't had the problem with other rods yet. --Bob. At 01:34 PM 3/8/00 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:"Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: Harry, I have had a similar experience in my limited stint as a "maker". Areyousure they're not just dirty? My ferrules tend to oxidize and collect dirt from my hands as they age. I clean them with a bit of isopropyl alcoholonoccasion. It does the trick for me. I would try giving them a goodcleaning before doing any refitting. Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:35 PM Subject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrulescontinueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ Dennis,A good cleaning won't correct the problem. Even a good polishing withsteel wool is not enough. I don't have the rod in hand yet, but I'm sure itwill take removing just a hair more metal to make it fit correctly. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 16:11:26 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:00:39 -0600 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Are they loose, or too tight ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrules continueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from hjocamp@webtv.net Wed Mar 8 16:26:51 2000 ESMTP id 8C3B32C855 616.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id ETAtAhQ2uR7yYJZzN2dDPT0ir7NK2wG4IQIVAIK2hhTMGzmia65yzUQH30Inru/R Subject: old bamboo rod I'm new at this so please bare with me! I have a old fly rod and reelthat I would like to know anything about. On the rod it has GoldenBamboo written on the pole, at work they said it was split bamboo, thehandle is nickle plated and it is signed by the person who made it.The signiture, is hard to read, not because it"s old, but the lettersare hand written and kinda run togeather. If it lookes even close tosomething anyone reconizes please let me know. "L.M. Dichsery". Thepole is in perfect shape except some of the red tie around the a coupleof the eyes are loose other than that the guys at work say its inperfect shape and no one should touch it. I would really app. anyinformation on the person who mad this , of it's value, or anything atall about it. Thanks,Marilyn from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 16:45:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:34:27 -0600 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" This is where a simple lap comes in really handy ! I wonder how the"masters" did it ? All of my PHY's still fit perfectly. All I have done ismake wooden plugs for the females. BTW I received a note from Chris Smith, and the Snake Guide order hasbeenplaced. He runs his own business, so I can understand times when you havelittle time, for much else ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Ray Gould wrote: Hi Harry,I'm translating your comments to mean that the ferrule to ferrule fit isnowloose. I would think that this means it may have been fitted so that itwasonly tight in one spot when made and now that that spot is worn down abitit feels loose. Or perhaps there was some foreign material inside thefemaleand gave an initial false reading of being tight. Concentrating on beingsure the ferrule fits over its entire length and is clean and lubricatedwith light oil will help.Ray ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:35 AMSubject: "Growing Ferrules" Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice.Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrulescontinueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ Ray,I should have made it more clear that the ferrules are now tootightrather than too loose. The male cannot readily be inserted into thefemale. Orif it is forced in, then separating the sections is very difficult. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from rodsmiths@imt.net Wed Mar 8 17:00:54 2000 ferrule material Hello rodmakers, In the very beginning of Gary's rodmaking on his own he did use Duronz don't remember the exact year, Gary ordered nickel silver tubing to makehis ferrules with. I considered buying nickel silver tubing with Garyand converting Winston to nickel silver ferrules but decided againstit. Winston had a tradition of using Duronz and I thought that shouldbe maintained. In addition, the Duronz machines very well and hasproven itself to be a great ferrule material. At Winston we machined our ferrules from bar stock Duronz using a SouthBend turret lathe to drill and ream both the male and female ferrules.The females are a straight tube with only a double shoulder at the mouth design. We used a cutting fluid when drilling and reaming to reduceheat and provide better hole finish. The reamed holes in the femalewere not perfect enough so we honed them to true the holes and improvethe finish. Both the males and females were then turned on a precisionmandrel to insure that the ID and OD were concentric with each other. I thought this would be of interest to the list members. Tom Morgan from EM11EM22@aol.com Wed Mar 8 17:35:28 2000 Subject: BFR Wasn't the BFR going to be mailed in February? Has anyone gotten it? from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Mar 8 17:59:24 2000 0000 (204.186.33.207) Subject: Growing Ferrules I always have this problem although I do not think it is a problem. Ithink it is a combination of as John said the swelling of the ferrulestation due to moisture content and the oxidization of the interior ofthe female ferrule. I also like to have my ferrules fitting tight whichonly adds to it. Better to tight than to loose. Marty from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 18:32:11 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:32:02 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: BFR EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: Wasn't the BFR going to be mailed in February? Has anyone gotten it? Yes, it was going to be mailed in February ---- of 1999, then March,April, May, and so on. IMNSHO, The magazine is done. Stick a fork init. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 8 18:37:18 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:37:10 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Don, Chris, John and others -- How do you deal with the difficulty on rods that are for someone otherthanyourself? Do you intentionally fit the ferrules a little loose? Re-fit in afew months? Just curious,Harry Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Harry, Have experienced the same thing on a few rods. Others it doesn't seem tomatter. I've got some rods that only get used once tp twice a year withnoproblem. Others, its a battle keeping ahead of the swelling. One rod hadtobe "tuned" each morning for a week. Was too tight to mount each day.I think its a humidity thing - I build in the winter with real low humidityin the house. The summer through is a different story. And that's whentheferrule thing appears. Don At 11:35 AM 3/8/00 -0600, you wrote:Friends,I'm having a little trouble with ferrules, and need some advice. Arod I built last fall has come back to me with ferrules that no longerfit together well. I've experienced this on other rods as well. Itseems that a few months after the rod is complete, the ferrulescontinueto expand and contract -- well at least expand. Any ideas as to whythis happens, and how I can prevent it in the future? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from harms1@prodigy.net Wed Mar 8 19:37:24 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:37:15 -0500 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF893E.05B52B00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF893E.05B52B00 It's perfectly true that no finish can stop the migration of ambient =humidity (water vapor) from entering and exiting a cane rod. But that =is not to say that all finishes are "equal" in this regard. The =differences (aside from "degrees" of protection in slowing the humidity =movement) is that some finishes do not even offer much protection =against moisture itself (water)-- and that's the most important =difference. Tung oil offers the least amount of protection against either humidity =or moisture, with the rubbing oil-varnishes being significantly better =in slowing down water vapor movement. Neither of these offers really =good protection against water itself, though the oil-varnishes are =better than the tung oil products. The best finishes in terms of protection are spar varnishes, and better =still, is polyurethane. Best of all is Birchwood Casey's "True Oil," as =this is a polymerized, "conversion formula" that becomes extremely hard =and durable. As to the cane under the cork, I think the primary reason we do not =finish this is so the glue will bond with the surface of the cane =itself. Otherwise, the glue bond under the cork could be no stronger =than the finish. (Moreover, glue is every bit as moisture and water =resistant as any finish we might have applied.) cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Subject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" It's also another indication that, IMHO, all the stuff about thewater-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil bad) =ismostly beside the point. I suspect rods are not really sealed in =either caseand adjust their moisture content to ambient conditions. I even read a =postrecently in which we were instructed to be sure to use a good varnishinstead of tung oil to keep out moisture, while in the same message we =weretold not to varnish the blank under the cork. How does the moisture =know notto penetrate the cork? And then there are those who soak their strips =beforeplaning, and come out with rods just as lively as any other. I'm being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense to =thosewith different views. But it is one of many common ideas about rod =makingwhich, while advocated confidently, do not seem to be based on anysystematic data. Maybe it's more fun that way. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Seth Steinzor Sent: 3/8/00 2:21 PMSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within the =cellsofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisture =staysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again by =absorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe that's =notsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb atmospheric -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related to in the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the maleslide to some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't correct =the then dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only =other would be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver thenit seem that the female would expand as well and the fit would remainfine, since it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be =expanding is more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferrule surfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide area =so must be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a normalamount moisture content over time following your procedures that initially lot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules and =the then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that therod returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months forit to that. Just guessing on all this. Chris ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF893E.05B52B00 It's perfectly true= finish can stop the migration of ambient humidity (water vapor) from = protection in slowing the humidity movement) is that some finishes do = offer much protection against moisture itself (water)-- and that's = important difference. Tung oil offersthe = products. The best finishesin = durable. As to cork, I think the primary reason we do not finish this is so the = bond with the surface of the cane itself. Otherwise, the glue bond under = applied.) Bill ------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original = From: "Kling,Barry = Sent: Wednesday,= 3:59 PMSubject: RE:"Growing = Ferrules" beside the point. I suspect rods are not really sealed in either = = = Wednesday, = = returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months = ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF893E.05B52B00-- from harms1@prodigy.net Wed Mar 8 19:43:49 2000 Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:43:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material In the boat-building business, the best alternative to brass (too soft) orbronze (too brittle) is a material called "monel." Does anyone out therehave enough metalurgical knowledge/experience to know if this materialmightmake a good ferrule? Jes wondering...Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Gary Howells ferrule material Hello rodmakers, In the very beginning of Gary's rodmaking on his own he did use Duronz don't remember the exact year, Gary ordered nickel silver tubing to makehis ferrules with. I considered buying nickel silver tubing with Garyand converting Winston to nickel silver ferrules but decided againstit. Winston had a tradition of using Duronz and I thought that shouldbe maintained. In addition, the Duronz machines very well and hasproven itself to be a great ferrule material. At Winston we machined our ferrules from bar stock Duronz using aSouthBend turret lathe to drill and ream both the male and female ferrules.The females are a straight tube with only a double shoulder at the mouth design. We used a cutting fluid when drilling and reaming to reduceheat and provide better hole finish. The reamed holes in the femalewere not perfect enough so we honed them to true the holes and improvethe finish. Both the males and females were then turned on a precisionmandrel to insure that the ID and OD were concentric with each other. I thought this would be of interest to the list members. Tom Morgan from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 8 20:02:50 2000 18:04:22 PST Subject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have read upon this subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do the various finishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed to re- enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time it takes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry, in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 8 20:07:15 2000 18:08:48 PST Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material It's my understanding that the material used by Granger was the Monel. I know it won't oxidize, at least with the typical solutions, but I've always liked the fit and strength of Granger ferrules. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- In the boat-building business, the best alternative to brass (too soft) orbronze (too brittle) is a material called "monel." Does anyone out therehave enough metalurgical knowledge/experience to know if this materialmightmake a good ferrule? Jes wondering...Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Gary Howells ferrule material Hello rodmakers, In the very beginning of Gary's rodmaking on his own he did use Duronz don't remember the exact year, Gary ordered nickel silver tubing to makehis ferrules with. I considered buying nickel silver tubing with Garyand converting Winston to nickel silver ferrules but decided againstit. Winston had a tradition of using Duronz and I thought that shouldbe maintained. In addition, the Duronz machines very well and hasproven itself to be a great ferrule material. At Winston we machined our ferrules from bar stock Duronz using aSouthBend turret lathe to drill and ream both the male and female ferrules.The females are a straight tube with only a double shoulder at the mouth design. We used a cutting fluid when drilling and reaming to reduceheat and provide better hole finish. The reamed holes in the femalewere not perfect enough so we honed them to true the holes and improvethe finish. Both the males and females were then turned on a precisionmandrel to insure that the ID and OD were concentric with each other. I thought this would be of interest to the list members. Tom Morgan from freaner@gte.net Wed Mar 8 20:09:48 2000 Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material At 8:43 PM -0500 , 3/8/00, WILLIAM HARMS wrote about Re: Gary Howells ferrule materialIn the boat-building business, the best alternative to brass (too soft) orbronze (too brittle) is a material called "monel." Does anyone out therehave enough metalurgical knowledge/experience to know if this materialmightmake a good ferrule? Jes wondering...Bill Here's a data sheet on Monel that lists all sorts of stuff... http://www.inco.net/inco/monel500.htm Claude from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 8 20:15:36 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:12:24 -0600 Subject: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_095B_01BF893A.D5CF3BE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_095B_01BF893A.D5CF3BE0 Before I post what I am about to, I want you (Bill) to know that I agree =with you that Tung oil is less of a moisture protectant than the spar =varnish and the polyurethane, but still, thought with finishes coming =into question here, I would post an excerpt from a 1992 brochure I have = from a very respected Rodmaker... "...My rods are not impregnated, and are finished with four = of the best grade of hand applied tung oil varnish..." Good fishing Gary HowellsRodmaker This is from a brochure Mr. Howells sent with the 1992 rod that I have. =Of course this rod has never been fished, but I have seen some of his =rods that have had a lot of service, and gotta say they look as good as =they ever didNow, he doesn't say if he brushed, dipped or hand rubbed. =Just looking at the way the finish lays across the guide wraps =endlessly, I would venture to say that the rods were... Hell, I don't =know how he did it, but it is a damn fine finish and a beautiful rod.. =I have also worked on two older Winston rods, and if the Tung Oil =varnish is a "handed down" tradition from there, then I ain't gonna =argue with it... only thing wrong with those two rods was 1 had a loose =reel seat and the other, the guy had crushed a guide. Nothing at all =compromised about the finishes on either of the Winstons... matter of =fact, the finish was in great shape.Another thing I did notice about the Gary Howells rod that I have in =my possession is that the thread does not appear to be silk. Just =guessing I would say it is NCP nylon (How about it Tom? Same as Winston= Later,Bob From: WILLIAM HARMS RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:40 PMSubject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" It's perfectly true that no finish can stop the migration of ambient =humidity (water vapor) from entering and exiting a cane rod. But that =is not to say that all finishes are "equal" in this regard. The =differences (aside from "degrees" of protection in slowing the humidity =movement) is that some finishes do not even offer much protection =against moisture itself (water)-- and that's the most important =difference. Tung oil offers the least amount of protection against either =humidity or moisture, with the rubbing oil-varnishes being significantly =better in slowing down water vapor movement. Neither of these offers =really good protection against water itself, though the oil-varnishes =are better than the tung oil products. The best finishes in terms of protection are spar varnishes, and =better still, is polyurethane. Best of all is Birchwood Casey's "True =Oil," as this is a polymerized, "conversion formula" that becomes =extremely hard and durable. As to the cane under the cork, I think the primary reason we do not =finish this is so the glue will bond with the surface of the cane =itself. Otherwise, the glue bond under the cork could be no stronger =than the finish. (Moreover, glue is every bit as moisture and water =resistant as any finish we might have applied.) cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ From: "Kling, Barry W." Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:59 PMSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" It's also another indication that, IMHO, all the stuff about thewater-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil =bad) ismostly beside the point. I suspect rods are not really sealed in =either caseand adjust their moisture content to ambient conditions. I even =read a postrecently in which we were instructed to be sure to use a good =varnishinstead of tung oil to keep out moisture, while in the same =message we weretold not to varnish the blank under the cork. How does the =moisture know notto penetrate the cork? And then there are those who soak their =strips beforeplaning, and come out with rods just as lively as any other. I'm being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense to =thosewith different views. But it is one of many common ideas about rod =makingwhich, while advocated confidently, do not seem to be based on anysystematic data. Maybe it's more fun that way. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Seth Steinzor Sent: 3/8/00 2:21 PMSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to =controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As =Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within the =cellsofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisture =staysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again by =absorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe =that's notsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb =atmospheric -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related =to in the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the =maleslide to some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't =correct the then dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only =other would be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver =thenit seem that the female would expand as well and the fit would =remainfine, since it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be =expanding is more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferrule surfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide =area so must be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a =normalamount moisture content over time following your procedures that =initially lot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules =and the then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that =therod returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months =forit to that. Just guessing on all this. Chris ------=_NextPart_000_095B_01BF893A.D5CF3BE0 Before I post what I am about to,I = (Bill) to know that I agree with you that Tung oil is less of a moisture = protectant than the spar varnish and the polyurethane, but still, = finishes coming into question here, I would post an excerpt from a 1992 = I have from a very respected Rodmaker... varnish..." Goodfishing Gary Howells Rodmaker This is from a brochure Mr. Howells sent with the = some of his rods that have had a lot of service, and gotta say they look = wraps endlessly, I would venture to say that the rods were... Hell, I = "handed down" tradition from there, then I ain't gonna argue = it... only thing wrong with those two rods was 1 had a loose reel seat = finishes on either of the Winstons... matter of fact, the finish was in = shape. thing I did notice about the Gary Howells rod that I have in my = Later,Bob KlingB@health.missouri.edu= <KlingB@health.missouri.edu= RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:40 PMSubject: Re: = Ferrules"It's perfectly = finish can stop the migration of ambient humidity (water vapor) from = from "degrees" of protection in slowing the humidity = that some finishes do not even offer much protection against = difference. Tung oil offers= amount of protection against either humidity or moisture, with the = oil-varnishes being significantly better in slowing down water vapor = products. The bestfinishes = protection are spar varnishes, and better still, is = durable. As to = glue is every bit as moisture and water resistant as any finish we = have applied.) Bill ------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original= From: = Sent:Wednesday, = 2000 3:59 PMSubject: RE: = Ferrules" = water-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil = being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense to = MCDOWELL = Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related = then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that = ------=_NextPart_000_095B_01BF893A.D5CF3BE0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 20:19:07 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:08:18 -0600 Subject: Re: BFR Funny, as today, I mailed their subscription request back with a note ! Towhit: Send the back issues I paid you for in Dec. '99, and I'll see aboutsending payment for a subscription ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: BFR EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: Wasn't the BFR going to be mailed in February? Has anyone gotten it? Yes, it was going to be mailed in February ---- of 1999, then March,April, May, and so on. IMNSHO, The magazine is done. Stick a fork init. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 20:23:21 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:12:27 -0600 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material Yes, you don't want to have to machine it ! As it TOUGH ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material In the boat-building business, the best alternative to brass (too soft) orbronze (too brittle) is a material called "monel." Does anyone out therehave enough metalurgical knowledge/experience to know if this materialmightmake a good ferrule? Jes wondering...Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 5:53 PMSubject: Gary Howells ferrule material Hello rodmakers, In the very beginning of Gary's rodmaking on his own he did use Duronz don't remember the exact year, Gary ordered nickel silver tubing tomakehis ferrules with. I considered buying nickel silver tubing with Garyand converting Winston to nickel silver ferrules but decided againstit. Winston had a tradition of using Duronz and I thought that shouldbe maintained. In addition, the Duronz machines very well and hasproven itself to be a great ferrule material. At Winston we machined our ferrules from bar stock Duronz using aSouthBend turret lathe to drill and ream both the male and female ferrules.The females are a straight tube with only a double shoulder at themouth design. We used a cutting fluid when drilling and reaming to reduceheat and provide better hole finish. The reamed holes in the femalewere not perfect enough so we honed them to true the holes andimprovethe finish. Both the males and females were then turned on a precisionmandrel to insure that the ID and OD were concentric with each other. I thought this would be of interest to the list members. Tom Morgan from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 8 20:32:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:21:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes This is an interesting thing to ponder ! Paul Young told me that on hispersonal rods, he often just used linseed oil for a finish, as he knew theglue couldn't fail in his joints. We all know he had his ring of flame, totreat his cane, but since his ferrules seem never to get loose or too tight(if kept clean), I wonder if just building our rods in "normal" air we livein, isn't the most stable condition ??? Thinking of a rod made in Arizona, and shipped to Florida, had the ferrulesget too tight right off, got me to wondering about this ! How often does this happen ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have read uponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed tore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Mar 8 20:49:35 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B3_01BF892E.D207F120" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01BF892E.D207F120 Isn't tung oil and tung oil varnish two different things? I just got acatalog today and they sell tung oil spar varnish for $37/quart. Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:14 PM Subject: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) Before I post what I am about to, I want you (Bill) to know that I agreewith you that Tung oil is less of a moisture protectant than the sparvarnish and the polyurethane, but still, thought with finishes coming intoquestion here, I would post an excerpt from a 1992 brochure I have from avery respected Rodmaker... "...My rods are not impregnated, and are finished with four coatsof the best grade of hand applied tung oil varnish..." Good fishing Gary HowellsRodmaker This is from a brochure Mr. Howells sent with the 1992 rod that I have.Of course this rod has never been fished, but I have seen some of his rodsthat have had a lot of service, and gotta say they look as good as they everdidNow, he doesn't say if he brushed, dipped or hand rubbed. Just lookingat the way the finish lays across the guide wraps endlessly, I wouldventureto say that the rods were... Hell, I don't know how he did it, but it is adamn fine finish and a beautiful rod.. I have also worked on two olderWinston rods, and if the Tung Oil varnish is a "handed down" tradition fromthere, then I ain't gonna argue with it... only thing wrong with those tworods was 1 had a loose reel seat and the other, the guy had crushed a guide.Nothing at all compromised about the finishes on either of the Winstons...matter of fact, the finish was in great shape.Another thing I did notice about the Gary Howells rod that I have inmy possession is that the thread does not appear to be silk. Just guessingI would say it is NCP nylon (How about it Tom? Same as Winston used?).Either way a beautiful rod... a true masterpiece. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM HARMS RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:40 PMSubject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" It's perfectly true that no finish can stop the migration of ambienthumidity (water vapor) from entering and exiting a cane rod. But that isnot to say that all finishes are "equal" in this regard. The differences(aside from "degrees" of protection in slowing the humidity movement) isthat some finishes do not even offer much protection against moistureitself(water)-- and that's the most important difference. Tung oil offers the least amount of protection against either humidityor moisture, with the rubbing oil-varnishes being significantly better inslowing down water vapor movement. Neither of these offers really goodprotection against water itself, though the oil-varnishes are better thanthe tung oil products. The best finishes in terms of protection are spar varnishes, and betterstill, is polyurethane. Best of all is Birchwood Casey's "True Oil," asthisis a polymerized, "conversion formula" that becomes extremely hard anddurable. As to the cane under the cork, I think the primary reason we do notfinish this is so the glue will bond with the surface of the cane itself.Otherwise, the glue bond under the cork could be no stronger than thefinish. (Moreover, glue is every bit as moisture and water resistant as anyfinish we might have applied.) cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Kling, Barry W." Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:59 PMSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" It's also another indication that, IMHO, all the stuff about thewater-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil bad)ismostly beside the point. I suspect rods are not really sealed ineither caseand adjust their moisture content to ambient conditions. I even read apostrecently in which we were instructed to be sure to use a good varnishinstead of tung oil to keep out moisture, while in the same messageweweretold not to varnish the blank under the cork. How does the moistureknow notto penetrate the cork? And then there are those who soak their stripsbeforeplaning, and come out with rods just as lively as any other. I'm being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense tothosewith different views. But it is one of many common ideas about rodmakingwhich, while advocated confidently, do not seem to be based on anysystematic data. Maybe it's more fun that way. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Seth Steinzor Sent: 3/8/00 2:21 PMSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within thecellsofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisturestaysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again byabsorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe that'snotsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb atmosphericmoisture and swell anyway, ruining your careful ferrule fit. -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related toexpansionin the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the maleslideareato some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't correcttheproblemthen dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the onlyotherfactorwould be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver thenitwouldseem that the female would expand as well and the fit would remainfine,butsince it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must beexpanding(whichis more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferruleconnectionsurfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide areasothatmust be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a normalamountofmoisture content over time following your procedures that initiallyremoved alot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules andthefitthen remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that therodwasreturning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months forit todothat. Just guessing on all this. Chris ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01BF892E.D207F120 tung oil and tung oil varnish two different things? I just got a catalog = Darrell NunleySent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 6:14 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: finish and thread(was = ferrules)Before I post what I am about to,= (Bill) to know that I agree with you that Tung oil is less of a = protectant than the spar varnish and the polyurethane, but still, = finishes coming into question here, I would post an excerpt from a = brochure I have from a very respected Rodmaker... "...My = not impregnated, and are finished with four coats = varnish..." Goodfishing Gary Howells Rodmaker This is from a brochure Mr. Howells sent with the = some of his rods that have had a lot of service, and gotta say they = good as they ever didNow, he doesn't say if he brushed, dipped or hand = wraps endlessly, I would venture to say that the rods were... Hell, I = know how he did it, but it is a damn fine finish and a beautiful = have also worked on two older Winston rods, and if the Tung Oil = "handed down" tradition from there, then I ain't gonna argue with = thing wrong with those two rods was 1 had a loose reel seat and the = shape. thing I did notice about the Gary Howells rod that I have in my = Later,Bob KlingB@health.missouri.edu= <KlingB@health.missouri.edu= RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:40 PMSubject: Re: = Ferrules"It's perfectly = finish can stop the migration of ambient humidity (water vapor) from = "degrees" of protection in slowing the humidity movement) is that = finishes do not even offer much protection against moisture itself = difference. Tung oil offers= amount of protection against either humidity or moisture, with the = oil-varnishes being significantly better in slowing down water vapor = products. The bestfinishes = protection are spar varnishes, and better still, is = durable. As to = glue is every bit as moisture and water resistant as any finish we = have applied.) Bill ------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original= From: "Kling, = Sent:Wednesday, = 2000 3:59 PMSubject: RE: = Ferrules" = water-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil = being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense to = MCDOWELL = then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that = ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01BF892E.D207F120-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 8 20:53:32 2000 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry,I've noticed the same problem and solved it as John Zimny hassuggested. Good luck.Regards,Hank. from djk762@hotmail.com Wed Mar 8 21:52:27 2000 Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:51:53 PST Subject: Bishop 2000 Chuck,Darrell,All- Mid- Oct. sounds great! Chuck's place is great! Golden aspens , the eastern sierras, Hot Creek, East Walker, the Owens, ....Just avoidHolloween so the family guys can attend.David KashubaFair Oaks CA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jczimny@dol.net Wed Mar 8 22:05:11 2000 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Good question. They only vary in the rate. No matter what you finish with,thecane is going to reach an equalibrium moisture content that need only varya fewpercentage point per year. I do agree with Bill that one needs to considercarefully the actual water "proofness" of the finish. As well as itsmoistureproofness.John Z CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have read uponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed tore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time it takes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jczimny@dol.net Wed Mar 8 22:15:29 2000 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Not only that he used rubber cement. A few years back I had a PY 8 footerthatwas finished with what could only have been rubber or contact cement.John Z nobler wrote: This is an interesting thing to ponder ! Paul Young told me that on hispersonal rods, he often just used linseed oil for a finish, as he knew theglue couldn't fail in his joints. We all know he had his ring of flame, totreat his cane, but since his ferrules seem never to get loose or too tight(if kept clean), I wonder if just building our rods in "normal" air we livein, isn't the most stable condition ??? Thinking of a rod made in Arizona, and shipped to Florida, had theferrulesget too tight right off, got me to wondering about this ! How often does this happen ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have readuponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed tore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 8 22:33:30 2000 Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 3/9/0 1:50:05 AM, harms1@prodigy.net writes: Bill and others - I am sure monel would make a fine ferrule, but it isbetter suited to drawn ferrules as opposed to machined ferrules because of it's difficult machining characteristics. The problem is the elongation characteristic that Tony referred to earlier. It is very desirable to have a high elongation if you are drawing the metal, but it retards chip break off if you are machining. The result is a gummy mess. Once the ferrule is formed, no matter how you made it, elongation is not a factor. from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 8 23:06:39 2000 Subject: Re: old bamboo rod Hi Marilyn,The Golden Bamboo rod you have was made by L.M Dichgiry and was made inJapan. I've worked on a couple of them. They are not valuable rods and aremade with low cost components. It's a good rod to have a youngster use tobegin fly fishing.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: old bamboo rod I'm new at this so please bare with me! I have a old fly rod and reelthat I would like to know anything about. On the rod it has GoldenBamboo written on the pole, at work they said it was split bamboo, thehandle is nickle plated and it is signed by the person who made it.The signiture, is hard to read, not because it"s old, but the lettersare hand written and kinda run togeather. If it lookes even close tosomething anyone reconizes please let me know. "L.M. Dichsery". Thepole is in perfect shape except some of the red tie around the a coupleof the eyes are loose other than that the guys at work say its inperfect shape and no one should touch it. I would really app. anyinformation on the person who mad this , of it's value, or anything atall about it. Thanks,Marilyn from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Mar 9 05:40:19 2000 (204.186.33.41) Subject: Tung Oil/ Tung Oil Varnish Tung Oil is just that 100% Tung Oil. Tung Oil Varnish has just a smallpercentage of TO and also has Hardners and other vehicles. Marty from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Mar 9 06:34:24 2000 Subject: Re: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) At 08:13 PM 3/8/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Of course this rod has never been fished, from channer1@rmi.net Thu Mar 9 06:36:43 2000 Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson wrote: Hello rodmakers, In the very beginning of Gary's rodmaking on his own he did use Duronz don't remember the exact year, Gary ordered nickel silver tubing to makehis ferrules with. I considered buying nickel silver tubing with Garyand converting Winston to nickel silver ferrules but decided againstit. Winston had a tradition of using Duronz and I thought that shouldbe maintained. In addition, the Duronz machines very well and hasproven itself to be a great ferrule material. At Winston we machined our ferrules from bar stock Duronz using aSouthBend turret lathe to drill and ream both the male and female ferrules.The females are a straight tube with only a double shoulder at the mouth design. We used a cutting fluid when drilling and reaming to reduceheat and provide better hole finish. The reamed holes in the femalewere not perfect enough so we honed them to true the holes and improvethe finish. Both the males and females were then turned on a precisionmandrel to insure that the ID and OD were concentric with each other. I thought this would be of interest to the list members. Tom MorganMr. Morgan;Thanks for taking the time to post this for us. It's interesting to hearhow "the real guys" do things. John from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Mar 9 07:02:31 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Snake Brand Order Thanks everyone, I am closing entry to this group now. Thanks for everyones interest andpatience getting this together. I will be contacting members separately. Regards, SteveIndependence,MO from caneman@clnk.com Thu Mar 9 07:12:07 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:08:59 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) Gary,The guy who bought it, waited 10 months for it, and when he saw it, hedecided it was too pretty to fish (don't ask me, I just listen to his logic,don't agree with it). He kept it in the tube, taking it out and wiping itdown 3 or 4 times a year, and only lawn cast it one day, and I was withhimthat day. Finally, not long ago, he decided to sell the rod, and I endedup buying it from him. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) At 08:13 PM 3/8/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Of course this rod has never been fished, Why?Gary H. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Mar 9 07:22:49 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:19:24 Subject: FW: Bamboo Message from Andy Royer: All, I have been out of cane for longer than expected. To those who had hopedtosee me new material over the winter, I apologize. I am once again travelling to China in April to select new poles and willhave my new supply of cane ready for shipment before the end of May.Priceswill be the same as always. I have noted the remarks on size and blemishes. I continue to discount mygirlfriend's consoling remark that size does not matter. In reference tobamboo, I think size is over-rated. I believe that the bigger the culm,thehigher the number of blemishes. Most rodbuilders I've spent time withwhohave at least thirty years experience confirm that it is the density offibres they are after and they think they find what they are looking for inculms right at or just below two inches in diameter. I continue to refinemy requirements for the bamboo I buy. I will attempt to fill my shipment with bamboo that is two inches (or justunder if very heavy), dense and pretty. That is not to say I will avoidthebig pieces, only that I will concentrate more on density and surfaceclaritythan on size. Thank you. Please feel free to write to me for more information. Best regards, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 935-4414 ph(206) 935-5515 fax from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Mar 9 07:55:30 2000 0500 Subject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" I still find it a bit difficult to believe that absorbed moisture_inside_ the male ferrule area, after varnish, and with all thosewraps, could be forced in with enough pressure to affect the ferruleitself even slightly. Of course this is just gut feeling not based inphysics or chemistry. Regarding oxidation, remember that both the male and female would tendto oxidize and that would take up more space. from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 9 08:10:32 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:11:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes I've seen and owned quite a few PHY rods, but I never, ever, heard or sawone "finished" in rubber cement, or anything but varnish. He did usePliobond at one time to glue up cork rings, I believe, as I used thisadhesive to glue up the rings on my Para #11, bugging rod. This was 1953,and it's still perfect. I have to believe the one you speak of was done by another person. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Not only that he used rubber cement. A few years back I had a PY 8 footerthatwas finished with what could only have been rubber or contact cement.John Z nobler wrote: This is an interesting thing to ponder ! Paul Young told me that on hispersonal rods, he often just used linseed oil for a finish, as he knewtheglue couldn't fail in his joints. We all know he had his ring of flame,totreat his cane, but since his ferrules seem never to get loose or tootight(if kept clean), I wonder if just building our rods in "normal" air welivein, isn't the most stable condition ??? Thinking of a rod made in Arizona, and shipped to Florida, had theferrulesget too tight right off, got me to wondering about this ! How often does this happen ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have readuponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowedtore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from martinjensen@home.com Thu Mar 9 09:17:23 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:16:41 -0800 Subject: RE: Setting Forms I see what you mean. Well I would say that there is a problem theresomewhere. I will have to try that on my form and see what I come upwith.BTW I have the same brand forms and am very satisfied with them. Theyareseveral years old now though.I will do this tonight and let you know Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Setting Forms -------- Original Message -------- What I'm trying to say is that I used 3 different drill bit diameters atthesame station to calculate the depth and got 3 differentreadings....Using the.124 bit, the depth is .004 of the depth calculated with the other 2bits....thequery is does this mean my 60 deg groove is significantly off of 60 deg? Martin Jensen wrote: I'm a little confused but this is what I think you are saying. correct meifI am wrong. You picked a spot and calculated the depth with the drill bitand micrometer method. Then you zeroed out your dial indicator and setitinthe same spot and measured about .004 difference right? Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 10:19 PM Subject: Re: Setting Forms Perplexed in Portland. Have new steel forms ( from Lon Blauvelt, not"hot"onessold out of the back of the car belonging to the person that took Bobs).Havebeen messing with practice cane on wooden form and have real culmflamed,split, rough planed and am attempting to set form to begin a rod. Have dial indicator, micrometer and depth gage w/60 deg point. Checked2stations on the butt side using drills of .125 .115 and .107 diameterusingtheformula I saw posted here.drill .125.115 .107station 0 calculated depth .109 .1055.1065 .95 w/depth ind.station 5 " " .117.1155 .1165 .101 " Checked my measuring skills by using both micrometer and dial indicatoraswellas doing each station with each device and drill twice w/each, mic anddialind. Results were consistent.(+/- .001). Don't want to be anal about it, but does the max variation of .004 meanmy60deg groove is off a tad? Or do I worry too much? Mike Leitheiser --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 9 09:21:28 2000 Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:20:04 +0800 Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material But it raises the question of why use monel? It costs a lot more than NSand looks like it while being a ***lot*** harder to work.Also this comes back to what I mentioned in a prev post about manydifferent copper alloys (monel is prob a nickel alloy but you get themeaning) doing very close to the same job but because of their differentproperties certain alloys will be better or worse than others dependingupon it's intended purpose. from memory monel is about 25%-35% with a little iron and theremaindercopper and is as far as the marine environmet goes monel is the best ofthebest to use however it is hediously expensive (more so than berylliumcopper in fact) and I can't think of any place it's used except in a drawnform like ring nails, rivets which become drawn during use and screwswhichI believe are hardened during the screw making proceedure where thescrewsare formed by being rolled over a die, the thread isn't actually cut as youmay imagine.If you can find a source for monel in tube form it'd most likely makeexcellent ferrules but I wonder how it would solder? Loc Tite works on itthough. I can't think of any place I've seen machined monel parts though they nodoubt exist somewhere.It is very difficult to machine and the metal that gives it all the niceproperties is nickel which is in NS in the right amounts and is the reasonI think it's the best alloy to use for ferrules. When I started making ferrules and other gear I imagined NS would be easyto get but I was wrong for my part of the world anyhow so I tried quite afew alternatives that are easy to get and since I live in and around boats(marine) the various bronzes were the obvious choices and I was able togeta lot of it free in small amounts to try out. There were a few alloys thatbelled pretty quickly unless the walls were excessivly thick and a fewthatseemed to give the same sort of results as NS.In the end I came to the conclusion NS has all the right charastics to makeferrules with only the more expensive bronzes and monel having anyadvantages that were offset by either/and expence and workability.Phosphor and Si bronze do work well also.Basicaly, I think anything even close to bronze or brass will work to agreater or less degree, it just depends on the material's availability andif the machinist is prepared to work it and if the rod will get a lot ofwork.If all you want is to replace ferrules on a rod you don't intend using (??)use plain old copper. It looks pretty nice, very easy to machine and works Tony At 06:08 PM 3/8/00 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:It's my understanding that the material used by Granger was the Monel. I know it won't oxidize, at least with the typical solutions, but I've always liked the fit and strength of Granger ferrules. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "WILLIAM HARMS" , on 3/8/00 5:43 PM: In the boat-building business, the best alternative to brass (too soft) orbronze (too brittle) is a material called "monel." Does anyone out therehave enough metalurgical knowledge/experience to know if this materialmightmake a good ferrule? Jes wondering...Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 5:53 PMSubject: Gary Howells ferrule material Hello rodmakers, In the very beginning of Gary's rodmaking on his own he did use Duronz don't remember the exact year, Gary ordered nickel silver tubing tomakehis ferrules with. I considered buying nickel silver tubing with Garyand converting Winston to nickel silver ferrules but decided againstit. Winston had a tradition of using Duronz and I thought that shouldbe maintained. In addition, the Duronz machines very well and hasproven itself to be a great ferrule material. At Winston we machined our ferrules from bar stock Duronz using aSouthBend turret lathe to drill and ream both the male and female ferrules.The females are a straight tube with only a double shoulder at themouth design. We used a cutting fluid when drilling and reaming to reduceheat and provide better hole finish. The reamed holes in the femalewere not perfect enough so we honed them to true the holes and improvethe finish. Both the males and females were then turned on a precisionmandrel to insure that the ID and OD were concentric with each other. I thought this would be of interest to the list members. Tom Morgan /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 9 09:58:20 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:58:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes GMA, Dealt with this type of problem with a rod built in warmer and wetterclimes that was shipped into Alberta where it was kept in a non-humiditycontrolled fly shop. The female ferrule became so loose it about fell off.Suspect that the cane shrunk pulling the glue off the ferrule. No obviousproblem with glue that i could see. Don At 08:34 PM 3/8/00 -0600, nobler wrote:This is an interesting thing to ponder ! Paul Young told me that on hispersonal rods, he often just used linseed oil for a finish, as he knew theglue couldn't fail in his joints. We all know he had his ring of flame, totreat his cane, but since his ferrules seem never to get loose or too tight(if kept clean), I wonder if just building our rods in "normal" air we livein, isn't the most stable condition ??? Thinking of a rod made in Arizona, and shipped to Florida, had theferrulesget too tight right off, got me to wondering about this ! How often does this happen ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have read uponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed tore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from piscator@crosswinds.net Thu Mar 9 10:06:43 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material I thought Rick's Rods in Denver had some granger monel ferrules for sale. ... Brian But it raises the question of why use monel? It costs a lot more than NSand looks like it while being a ***lot*** harder to work.Also this comes back to what I mentioned in a prev post about manydifferent copper alloys (monel is prob a nickel alloy but you get themeaning) doing very close to the same job but because of their differentproperties certain alloys will be better or worse than others dependingupon it's intended purpose. from memory monel is about 25%-35% with a little iron and theremaindercopper and is as far as the marine environmet goes monel is the best ofthe best to use however it is hediously expensive (more so than berylliumcopper in fact) and I can't think of any place it's used except in a drawn form like ring nails, rivets which become drawn during use and screwswhich I believe are hardened during the screw making proceedure where thescrews are formed by being rolled over a die, the thread isn't actually cut as you may imagine.If you can find a source for monel in tube form it'd most likely makeexcellent ferrules but I wonder how it would solder? Loc Tite works on itthough. I can't think of any place I've seen machined monel parts though they nodoubt exist somewhere.It is very difficult to machine and the metal that gives it all the niceproperties is nickel which is in NS in the right amounts and is the reason I think it's the best alloy to use for ferrules. When I started making ferrules and other gear I imagined NS would beeasyto get but I was wrong for my part of the world anyhow so I tried quite afew alternatives that are easy to get and since I live in and around boats (marine) the various bronzes were the obvious choices and I was able toget a lot of it free in small amounts to try out. There were a few alloys that belled pretty quickly unless the walls were excessivly thick and a fewthat seemed to give the same sort of results as NS.In the end I came to the conclusion NS has all the right charastics tomake ferrules with only the more expensive bronzes and monel having anyadvantages that were offset by either/and expence and workability.Phosphor and Si bronze do work well also.Basicaly, I think anything even close to bronze or brass will work to agreater or less degree, it just depends on the material's availability and if the machinist is prepared to work it and if the rod will get a lot ofwork. If all you want is to replace ferrules on a rod you don't intend using (??) use plain old copper. It looks pretty nice, very easy to machine and works Tony At 06:08 PM 3/8/00 -0800, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:It's my understanding that the material used by Granger was the Monel. I know it won't oxidize, at least with the typical solutions, but I'vealways liked the fit and strength of Granger ferrules. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "WILLIAM HARMS" , on 3/8/00 5:43 PM: In the boat-building business, the best alternative to brass (too soft) or bronze (too brittle) is a material called "monel." Does anyone out there have enough metalurgical knowledge/experience to know if this materialmight make a good ferrule? Jes wondering...Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 5:53 PMSubject: Gary Howells ferrule material Hello rodmakers, In the very beginning of Gary's rodmaking on his own he did use Duronz don't remember the exact year, Gary ordered nickel silver tubing tomake his ferrules with. I considered buying nickel silver tubing with Garyand converting Winston to nickel silver ferrules but decided againstit. Winston had a tradition of using Duronz and I thought that shouldbe maintained. In addition, the Duronz machines very well and hasproven itself to be a great ferrule material. At Winston we machined our ferrules from bar stock Duronz using aSouth Bend turret lathe to drill and ream both the male and female ferrules.The females are a straight tube with only a double shoulder at themouth design. We used a cutting fluid when drilling and reaming to reduceheat and provide better hole finish. The reamed holes in the femalewere not perfect enough so we honed them to true the holes andimprovethe finish. Both the males and females were then turned on a precision mandrel to insure that the ID and OD were concentric with each other. I thought this would be of interest to the list members. Tom Morgan /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from bhoy@inmind.com Thu Mar 9 10:29:17 2000 Subject: Turnaround for REC components Does anybody have experience with the turnaround time for ferrules andreel seats (small order) from REC? How about Tony Young? Contact me off listif you've a mind... Thanks, Bill HoyBill Hoy from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Mar 9 10:52:28 2000 (router,SLMail V4.0); Thu, 09 Mar 2000 11:02:35 -0600 Interim Build)) with SMTP (router,SLMail V3.2); Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:50:48 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Thu, 09 Mar2000 10:50:47 -0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Thu Mar 09 10:50:24 2000 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Turnaround for REC components Bill,I placed a small order from REC in November that includeda few reel seats and one ferrule. He took the order afterhours, was exceptionally courteous and patient, had to hand itoff to someone else to check on some issues, and still shippedit by COB the next business day. I had it 3 days later. I've had similar experience with Russ Gooding (Golden Witch) but haven't(yet) ordered from Tony. I know you asked for off list replies but I felt the good word was worth sharing. Best Regards, -----Original Message----- Subject: Turnaround for REC components Does anybody have experience with the turnaround time for ferrules andreel seats (small order) from REC? How about Tony Young? Contact me off listif you've a mind... Thanks, Bill HoyBill Hoy from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 9 11:06:45 2000 Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:06:12 -0400 Subject: Re: 2nd Annual Bishop California Gathering in October Yes,I think we all should check the BFR site, at least that way we couldfeel asif we were getting something for our money. I think the $65 would havebeen betterspent on a copy of Best of Planning form, Jack's book, sometools/supplies, or acouple cases of beer!:^) At least I would HAVE those.Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Hi Gang, Chuck and I are in the preliminary planning stages of this year's BishopGathering. Tenatively, we are looking at around the October 20- 22weekend.(Chuck, correct me if I'm mistaken) We need input from others if this date will conflict with any of theotherGatherings previously scheduled as we wish to avoid any conflictingdates. I guess it will be at Chucks place again for lack of another place and hewas a kind and gracious host. Of course we were all drooling over hishugeworkshop! Maybe someone who tracks all the Gatherings could post a list of them,or ifmakers who know of a gathering, would you please post the date and Icanmake a list of gatherings this year... Last year we had a lot of fun, got to cast a lot of new and vintage rods,consumed lots of chili and beer, got to look at a lot of need tools,machines and got to see what others were doing... It was a small, informal gathering with around 15-20 participants inattendance. Lots of places to fish within a short drive of Chuck'shouse... Here's some pics of last years gathering... http://www.bamboorods.homepage.com/gwbishop.htm I hope this years gathering will provide for a larger turnout... we hadpeople come from as far away as Oregon... Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com P.S. I apologize to those I upset regarding the commercial post. I justthought listers would like to know about scarce items, that, like me,mighthave been looking for a long time to find something. I knew I could askafellow lister to mention it and be within the rules, but I felt thatwouldbe deceptive. Darrell,Our Southern Rodmakers Gathering is scheduled for October 26-28. Though thedates don't conflict, they are close enough to keep some folks fromattendingboth meetings. Mark Metcalf at BFR tries to keep a current schedule ofthevarious gatherings. You might check his websire. Harry from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Thu Mar 9 11:56:50 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:56:39 EST Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod entry Jerry, I would like to suggest that you consider removing the Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine entry on your web page. Their current inability to deliver apublication in over a year to me is enough to warrent thisconsideration. Your site is fostering a publication that is failing todeliver and unless the web page is contactually obligated to this entryI would think it is not beneficial in any way to the web page or itsviewers. Respectfully,Jim Tefft from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Mar 9 12:16:18 2000 Subject: RE: Turnaround for REC components Tony's stuff seems to take about a week for shipping (by air mail fromAustralia) and so I usually get the stuff around 2 weeks after I email theorder to Tony. He seems to make ferrules etc. as they're ordered, or atleast that's my impression from some of his comments. I've never askedhim easy to work with. The products are excellent. No financial interest, though it's possible we are identical twinsseparatedat birth in Romania and put on two different ships. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Turnaround for REC components Does anybody have experience with the turnaround time for ferrules andreel seats (small order) from REC? How about Tony Young? Contact me off listif you've a mind... Thanks, Bill HoyBill Hoy from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Mar 9 12:55:32 2000 Subject: Rodmakers pins--Ron boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF89CE.DE4FC020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF89CE.DE4FC020 Ron,Just got mine--very nice!Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF89CE.DE4FC020 Ron,Just got mine--verynice!Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF89CE.DE4FC020-- from jhewitt@cmn.net Thu Mar 9 14:19:17 2000 Subject: Stain?? To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John from rmoon@ida.net Thu Mar 9 14:21:59 2000 0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod entry boundary="------------224EF26CB1CFB0EFF22A6927" --------------224EF26CB1CFB0EFF22A6927 Subject:Bamboo Fly Rod entryDate:Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:54:13 - 0500From:Jim Tefft jfoster@gte.net, Rodmakers Jerry, I would like to suggest that you consider removing the Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine entry on your web page. Their current inability to deliver apublication in over a year to me is enough to warrent thisconsideration. Your site is fostering a publication that is failing todeliver and unless the web page is contactually obligated to this entryI would think it is not beneficial in any way to the web page or itsviewers. Respectfully,Jim Tefft Jim No matter what the circumstances are for the Bamboo Rod Magazine'sallegedly failing to meet your expaectations, this rod list is not theplace to air your personal vituperation, especially since the rod listin no way endorses any person or product. Bamboo splinters under yourfingernails. Ralph --------------224EF26CB1CFB0EFF22A6927 Subject: entry 12:54:13-0500 <jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> Rodmakers<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> Jerry,I would like to suggest that you consider removing the BambooFly Rodmagazine entry on your web page. Their current inability todeliverapublication in over a year to me is enough to warrentthisconsideration. Your site is fostering a publication that is failingtodeliver and unless the web page is contactually obligated tothis entryI would think it is not beneficial in any way to the web pageor itsviewers.Respectfully,Jim Tefft JimNo matter what the circumstances are for the Bamboo Rod Magazine'sallegedlyfailing to meet your expaectations, this rod list is not the placeto air your personal vituperation, especially since the rod list in no fingernails.Ralph --------------224EF26CB1CFB0EFF22A6927-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Mar 9 14:35:59 2000 12:37:37 PST Subject: re: Stain?? A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the Min-wax stain. In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so non-porous thatit didn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess stainaway after allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away also. Ithen tried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it didn't want to dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I was using. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John from jczimny@dol.net Thu Mar 9 14:36:00 2000 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Nope. The rod belonged to Louis Marden and was given to Louis's wife byPaulYoung himself. Louis told me the story himself as he returned said rod toitscase.John Z nobler wrote: I've seen and owned quite a few PHY rods, but I never, ever, heard or sawone "finished" in rubber cement, or anything but varnish. He did usePliobond at one time to glue up cork rings, I believe, as I used thisadhesive to glue up the rings on my Para #11, bugging rod. This was1953,and it's still perfect. I have to believe the one you speak of was done by another person. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:04 PMSubject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Not only that he used rubber cement. A few years back I had a PY 8footerthatwas finished with what could only have been rubber or contact cement.John Z nobler wrote: This is an interesting thing to ponder ! Paul Young told me that on hispersonal rods, he often just used linseed oil for a finish, as he knewtheglue couldn't fail in his joints. We all know he had his ring of flame,totreat his cane, but since his ferrules seem never to get loose or tootight(if kept clean), I wonder if just building our rods in "normal" air welivein, isn't the most stable condition ??? Thinking of a rod made in Arizona, and shipped to Florida, had theferrulesget too tight right off, got me to wondering about this ! How often does this happen ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that havereaduponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowedtore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Mar 9 15:09:37 2000 Subject: Re: Stain?? Is there a satisfactory alternative; i. e., adding stain or coloring/pigmentto varnish?Ed A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the Min-wax stain.In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so non- porousthatitdidn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess stainawayafter allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away also. Ithentried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it didn'twantto dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I wasusing. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "John Hewitt" , on 3/9/00 12:16 PM: To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Mar 9 15:09:49 2000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod entry Ralph,I 2nd that.Bret from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Thu Mar 9 15:34:23 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Re: BFR I placed an order in Novemeber and despite several calls and e-mails onehas yet to be delivered. I have been assured as recently as last weekthat a copy is on it's way but it would appear tha although theAmericans can get a man on the moon , getting a magazine to the UnitedKingdom is proving a little more difficult........ EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: Wasn't the BFR going to be mailed in February? Has anyone gotten it? from LambersonW@missouri.edu Thu Mar 9 15:39:36 2000 (5.5.2650.21) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Stain?? Aniline dyes have been suggested for "staining" for matching colors of oldrods. I haven't tried them, but they might be worth a shot. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stain?? Is there a satisfactory alternative; i. e., adding stain or coloring/pigmentto varnish?Ed A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the Min-wax stain.In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so non- porousthatitdidn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess stainawayafter allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away also. Ithentried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it didn'twantto dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I wasusing. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "John Hewitt" , on 3/9/00 12:16 PM: To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Mar 9 15:43:02 2000 SMTP id KAA17607; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:42:39 +1300 Subject: re: Stain?? I have touched up old rods using stain but have done it by mixing a veryvery small amount of stain with the first coat of varnish , which has beenthinned to about 50%. This seems to work ok. I have not tried it on a new rod. Ian Kearney At 12:37 PM 9/03/00 PST, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the Min-wax stain. In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so non-porousthat it didn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess stainaway after allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away also. Ithen tried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it didn't want to dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I was using. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "John Hewitt" , on 3/9/00 12:16 PM: To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John from bhoy@inmind.com Thu Mar 9 16:10:06 2000 Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:23:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Turnaround for REC components Thanks to everyone for such a quick response to my query. Most peopleseem very pleased with the turnaround and quality of both REC & Tony. Bill Hoy from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Mar 9 16:24:19 2000 Subject: Re: Stain?? On occasions I have been asked to stain a replaced section so that itmatches the others. I use Colron wood dyes which are spirit based so thatthey seem to soak in better and also dry quickly. Care needs to be taken tomake up a good 'button' or mop to stain with so that it goes on evenly.Even doing this, it is taken differently in way of the nodes but is notunattractive. The secret is to expect to have to apply numerous coats toget it to the right colour ie apply it very, very lightly and bring it up tothe colour desired. Leave it to dry well and varnish. I've just doneexactly this on a B.James & Son 'Avocet' and he delighted with the result.Hope it helpsTim. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: re: Stain?? I have touched up old rods using stain but have done it by mixing a veryvery small amount of stain with the first coat of varnish , which hasbeenthinned to about 50%. This seems to work ok. I have not tried it on a new rod. Ian Kearney At 12:37 PM 9/03/00 PST, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the Min-waxstain.In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so non-porousthat itdidn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess stainawayafter allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away also. Ithentried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it didn'twantto dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I wasusing. Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "John Hewitt" , on 3/9/00 12:16 PM: To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 9 16:36:19 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:25:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod entry boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF89E5.D5E16DA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF89E5.D5E16DA0 I'm confused. Isn't the Rodmaker's web site connected to this list ? GMA Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 2:15 AMSubject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod entry I would like to suggest that you consider removing the Bamboo Fly consideration. Your site is fostering a publication that is failing to = deliver and unless the web page is contactually obligated to this = No matter what the circumstances are for the Bamboo Rod Magazine's =allegedly failing to meet your expaectations, this rod list is not the =place to air your personal vituperation, especially since the rod list =in no way endorses any person or product. Bamboo splinters under your = ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF89E5.D5E16DA0 I'm confused. Isn't the Rodmaker's web site connected to this list =? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ralph W =Moon Cc: jfoster@gte.net ; Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod =entry 2000 = <jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= I would like to suggest that you consider removing the Bamboo = Rod magazine entry on your web page. Their current = to deliver a publication in over a year to me is = warrent this consideration. Your site is fostering a = publication that is failing to deliver and unless = page is contactually obligated to this entry I would = No matter what the circumstances are for the Bamboo Rod allegedly failing to meet your expaectations, this rod list is not = place to air your personal vituperation, especially since the rod = Ralph ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF89E5.D5E16DA0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Mar 9 16:40:23 2000 (204.186.33.85) Subject: Stain?? Flame, Heat Treat and also Ammonia treat. I never stained theunfinnished blank but I do add a little stain to the Tung Oil Varnish ifI am trying to match an existing section. Marty from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 9 17:10:48 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:59:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Man, this is strange, considering the expansion rates. I wonder if the wallthickness of the male ferrule was a bit thin ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes GMA, Dealt with this type of problem with a rod built in warmer and wetterclimes that was shipped into Alberta where it was kept in a non-humiditycontrolled fly shop. The female ferrule became so loose it about fell off.Suspect that the cane shrunk pulling the glue off the ferrule. No obviousproblem with glue that i could see. Don At 08:34 PM 3/8/00 -0600, nobler wrote:This is an interesting thing to ponder ! Paul Young told me that on hispersonal rods, he often just used linseed oil for a finish, as he knewtheglue couldn't fail in his joints. We all know he had his ring of flame,totreat his cane, but since his ferrules seem never to get loose or tootight(if kept clean), I wonder if just building our rods in "normal" air welivein, isn't the most stable condition ??? Thinking of a rod made in Arizona, and shipped to Florida, had theferrulesget too tight right off, got me to wondering about this ! How often does this happen ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have readuponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowedtore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 9 17:13:33 2000 Thu, 9 Mar 2000 19:12:58 -0400 Subject: Re: BBFR Bret,I meant no disrespect to Mark and his staff, I still stand behind thefact that they put out a quality publication and even if I do ask for arefund,once they are up and running I will subscribe again! What I was trying toget atwas that had I known 2 years ago+ that it was going to be this long beforeIreceived a magazine I would have spent the $65 somewhere else. I havescrimpedand saved and invented frankentools and that money would have come inawfullyhandy at times! I have stuck by BFR for over 2 years, defending them allthe wayeven to my wife who thinks I am crazy for waiting.I hope this clarifies my point. By the way, I wonder how come I didn'tget ahat?;^)Shawn Pineo Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Shawn,I would suggest if you think you got ripped off from Mark then you shouldfigure out how many issues you got and ask for a rebate on the rest. Ijustgot off the phone with Mark and I know he is trying. I don't see anyoneelseputting forth the effort to publish a like magazine. I received a nicebaseball cap a couple of weeks ago from the magazine for paying mysubscription ahead of time. I will wait for as long as need be because Ithink this will fly here soon.Bret from lblove@cableone.net Thu Mar 9 18:13:06 2000 Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:12:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material Hey guys,Monel is used in the petroleum industry as a non-sparking bushingmaterialin pumps, actuators and valves. It is also used in the aircraft industry inhigh temp. applications mainly engine/turbine parts.The main draw back in machining the material is that it will work hardenifyou are not attentive to your tool wear. my 2 cents worthBrad----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Gary Howells ferrule material I can't think of any place I've seen machined monel parts though they nodoubt exist somewhere.It is very difficult to machine and the metal that gives it all the niceproperties is nickel which is in NS in the right amounts and is the reasonI think it's the best alloy to use for ferrules. from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Mar 9 18:18:05 2000 Subject: Re: Turnaround for REC components My experience with deliveries from REC has been good, I'd say 10 days to 2weeks.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Turnaround for REC components Does anybody have experience with the turnaround time for ferrules andreelseats (small order) from REC? How about Tony Young? Contact me offlistifyou've a mind... Thanks, Bill HoyBill Hoy from channer1@rmi.net Thu Mar 9 18:21:39 2000 Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" "Harsanyi, Andrew" wrote: I still find it a bit difficult to believe that absorbed moisture_inside_ the male ferrule area, after varnish, and with all thosewraps, could be forced in with enough pressure to affect the ferruleitself even slightly. Of course this is just gut feeling not based inphysics or chemistry. Regarding oxidation, remember that both the male and female would tendto oxidize and that would take up more space.Andy;Believe it, I am a carpenter and I have seen changes in humidity wreakhavoc on wood, not to mention what actual water absorbtion will do.John from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 9 19:07:20 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP ;Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:06:41 +0000 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod entry Jim:I second that motion!Jack -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod entry Jerry, I would like to suggest that you consider removing the Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine entry on your web page. Their current inability to deliver apublication in over a year to me is enough to warrent thisconsideration. Your site is fostering a publication that is failing todeliver and unless the web page is contactually obligated to this entryI would think it is not beneficial in any way to the web page or itsviewers. Respectfully,Jim Tefft from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Mar 9 19:19:37 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP (4.10.1998) Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes GMA Let me confirm John's story - I was there and heard the story andsaw therod. It was one of Paul's own personal rods that he gave as a gift on afishing trip.The trip is a whole another story. Chris On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:31:09 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote: Nope. The rod belonged to Louis Marden and was given to Louis's wife byPaulYoung himself. Louis told me the story himself as he returned said rod toitscase.John Z nobler wrote: I've seen and owned quite a few PHY rods, but I never, ever, heard orsawone "finished" in rubber cement, or anything but varnish. He did usePliobond at one time to glue up cork rings, I believe, as I used thisadhesive to glue up the rings on my Para #11, bugging rod. This was1953,and it's still perfect. I have to believe the one you speak of was done by another person. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:04 PMSubject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Not only that he used rubber cement. A few years back I had a PY 8footerthatwas finished with what could only have been rubber or contactcement.John Z nobler wrote: This is an interesting thing to ponder ! Paul Young told me that on hispersonal rods, he often just used linseed oil for a finish, as he knewtheglue couldn't fail in his joints. We all know he had his ring of flame,totreat his cane, but since his ferrules seem never to get loose or tootight(if kept clean), I wonder if just building our rods in "normal" air welivein, isn't the most stable condition ??? Thinking of a rod made in Arizona, and shipped to Florida, had theferrulesget too tight right off, got me to wondering about this ! How often does this happen ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that havereaduponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is everallowed tore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiantmoistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from fquinchat@locl.net Thu Mar 9 20:49:51 2000 corsair.locl.net (8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP idVAA24095 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 21:49:47 - Subject: PHY rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF8A12.78CE65A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF8A12.78CE65A0 I inspected a PHY rod in absolute mint condition today. Markings were: 7 1/2 - 13 - 4 1/2 - 2.65 oz N.E.H. Alec C. Little Xmas '56 [owner] Paul H. Young Co. Detroit - maker Ser 2215 Grip was 1/2" cork rings with 1/4" gap between rings.Reel seet also cork. Feels like a 3 wt although I did not have opportunity to cast it. Anyone have any ideas on what it is and what it might be worth? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF8A12.78CE65A0 I inspected a PHY rod in absolute= = N.E.H. [owner] Paul H. Young Co. Detroit - =maker Ser 2215 Grip was 1/2" cork ringswith = between rings.Reel seet also cork. Feels like a 3 wt although I didnot = opportunity to cast it. Anyone have any ideas on what itis = might be worth? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF8A12.78CE65A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 9 21:08:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 9 Mar 2000 21:09:11 -0600 Subject: Re: PHY rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BF8A0B.E1B56CA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BF8A0B.E1B56CA0 Could that possibly be H-E-H ? That would indicate a pretty light DT =line rating. GMA Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 8:57 PMSubject: PHY rod I inspected a PHY rod in absolute mint condition today. Markings =were: 7 1/2 - 13 - 4 1/2 - 2.65 oz N.E.H. Alec C. Little Xmas '56 [owner] Paul H. Young Co. Detroit - maker Ser 2215 Grip was 1/2" cork rings with 1/4" gap between rings.Reel seet also cork. Feels like a 3 wt although I did not have opportunity to cast it. Anyone have any ideas on what it is and what it might be worth? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BF8A0B.E1B56CA0 Could that possibly be H-E-H ? That would indicate a pretty light = rating. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bertram Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 = PMSubject: PHY rod I inspected a PHY rod in absolute= N.E.H. Paul H. Young Co. Detroit - =maker Ser 2215 Grip was 1/2" cork rings with1/4" = rings.Reel seet alsocork. Feels like a 3 wt although I did = opportunity to cast it. Anyone have any ideas on what it= it might be worth? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BF8A0B.E1B56CA0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 9 23:05:02 2000 Subject: Varnishing using B&B method Just finished varnishing a PHY Perfectionist using a variation on theB&B method. I took a clear plastic 35mm film canister, cut the bottomout and stretched two layers of a quality latex glove over one end. Isecured it with a elastic then put a pinhole in the center. I pulled itup the rod to the cork and put a couple tbsps of heated/thinned Minwaxhelmsman spar urethane in. Then I very slowly lowered the contraptiondown the blank, seemed to take forever but it looks incredible (sofar!!)The rod is hanging in the franken cabinet as we speak drying at 100F .I must say that this is a cool method of doing varnish, veryinexpensive too!looks to be a viable alternative Mark, at least till I can come up withsomething else!! Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 9 23:21:02 2000 Subject: franken rod....NOT!!! To the readers who implied that "my rods were probably franken rodstoo"...I am not in the habit of slapping together half assed rods, theyare built from what I think are some of the best components to be found, from the reel seat to the tiptop. I endeavor to build the best that Ican and strive to improve through practice, communication and trying newthings. I named some of my tools by the "franken"name as a joke, theyare makeshift tools that anyone can build and afford. Not all of us canafford to buy every tool we need brand new and top of the line! Otherslike myself prefer to use that money elsewhere, like better componentsor a nice new reel to accent that new rod.I guess what I'm trying to say is that, just because all my toolsaren't brand name doesn't mean that the quality of my rods suffer. Shawn }:^( from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 10 00:17:45 2000 Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:17:38 -0800 Subject: Re: franken rod....NOT!!! Shawn,I hope no one has implied that your rods are the poorer because youhave fashioned your own tools. If that's the case, then many of us on thislist, maybe most of us, will have some pretty sorry rods. My first fewrodswere made with only the roughest of handmade tools, and seem at least asnice as some of the later rods.Personally, I admire your ability to innovate and improvise. I wishI were as creative. The difference between your "jury-rigged" tools andmine is that yours seem to work. Mine just waste time.Keep innovating. Keep improvising. Keep the creative juicesflowing. Before we know it, you'll come up with something as helpful andinnovative as some of John Bokstrom's ideas.Thanks for the good work. Don't take any friendly jibes as personalinsults. The vast majority of the folks on this list would never insultanother rodmaker. But there are one or two...... Naah, let's don't go there. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: To the readers who implied that "my rods were probably franken rodstoo"...I am not in the habit of slapping together half assed rods, theyare built from what I think are some of the best components to be found, from the reel seat to the tiptop. I endeavor to build the best that Ican and strive to improve through practice, communication and tryingnewthings. I named some of my tools by the "franken"name as a joke, theyare makeshift tools that anyone can build and afford. Not all of us canafford to buy every tool we need brand new and top of the line! Otherslike myself prefer to use that money elsewhere, like better componentsor a nice new reel to accent that new rod.I guess what I'm trying to say is that, just because all my toolsaren't brand name doesn't mean that the quality of my rods suffer. Shawn }:^( --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Fri Mar 10 00:35:55 2000 Subject: Re: franken rod....NOT!!! Shawn, IMHO, your ingenuity adds value to the finished product. I hadn't evengotten to the end of your description of the varnish tube, beforerealizing what you were doing. Hats off to coming up with what soundslike a perfectly legit way to varnish. Inexpensive, less waste, lessstorage space needed, on and on.... Kevin from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 10 04:30:00 2000 0000 (204.186.33.44) Subject: Re: PHY rod Dennis Bertram wrote: I inspected a PHY rod in absolute mint condition today. Markingswere: 7 1/2 - 13 - 4 1/2 - 2.65 oz N.E.H. Alec C. Little Xmas '56 [owner] Paul H. Young Co. Detroit - maker Ser 2215 Grip was 1/2" cork rings with 1/4" gap between rings.Reel seet also cork. Feels like a 3 wt although I did not have opportunity to cast it. Anyone have any ideas on what it is and what it might be worth? Dennis71/2' 13/64 ferrule 41/2 /64 tip top , probably a "Perfectionist" taperwith a ventilated grip. In mint condition $3000-$3500. Marty from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 10 05:49:19 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:48:42 -0400 Subject: Re: franken rod....NOT!!! Kevin ,I can't take credit for the varnish method, only the 35mm filmcanister was mine. I just slightly improvised on someone else's great idea. Shawn "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote: Shawn, IMHO, your ingenuity adds value to the finished product. I hadn't evengotten to the end of your description of the varnish tube, beforerealizing what you were doing. Hats off to coming up with what soundslike a perfectly legit way to varnish. Inexpensive, less waste, lessstorage space needed, on and on.... Kevin from caneman@clnk.com Fri Mar 10 06:12:53 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 10 Mar 2000 06:09:41 -0600 Subject: Re: franken rod....NOT!!! Shawn,Didn't see the comment, but take it as a compliment!!! You have built ashop full of Franken-Tools and used them to build a rod that... well, hell,if it was me, I might even be proud to script "Frankenrods" on the shaft.Considering the time and brainpower you put into the tools you puttogether,I would thank that a Frankenrod would not only be appropriate, but wouldbea great compliment and high praise... Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: franken rod....NOT!!! Shawn,I hope no one has implied that your rods are the poorer because youhave fashioned your own tools. If that's the case, then many of us on thislist, maybe most of us, will have some pretty sorry rods. My first fewrodswere made with only the roughest of handmade tools, and seem at leastasnice as some of the later rods.Personally, I admire your ability to innovate and improvise. IwishI were as creative. The difference between your "jury-rigged" tools andmine is that yours seem to work. Mine just waste time.Keep innovating. Keep improvising. Keep the creative juicesflowing. Before we know it, you'll come up with something as helpful andinnovative as some of John Bokstrom's ideas.Thanks for the good work. Don't take any friendly jibes aspersonalinsults. The vast majority of the folks on this list would never insultanother rodmaker. But there are one or two...... Naah, let's don't go there. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: To the readers who implied that "my rods were probably franken rodstoo"...I am not in the habit of slapping together half assed rods, theyare built from what I think are some of the best components to befound, from the reel seat to the tiptop. I endeavor to build the best that Ican and strive to improve through practice, communication and tryingnewthings. I named some of my tools by the "franken"name as a joke, theyare makeshift tools that anyone can build and afford. Not all of us canafford to buy every tool we need brand new and top of the line! Otherslike myself prefer to use that money elsewhere, like better componentsor a nice new reel to accent that new rod.I guess what I'm trying to say is that, just because all my toolsaren't brand name doesn't mean that the quality of my rods suffer. Shawn }:^( --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from harms1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 10 07:35:53 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: Re: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF8A6B.7B570EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF8A6B.7B570EE0 Bob,Well, yes, but then there's tung oil and there's "tung oil." I have =found that most products commonly marketed as tung oil are not actually=the pure oil at all, but instead are an oil/varnish blend. When you =build up several coats of this sort of formula, you get in effect, the =same final protective and aesthetic results as a true varnish--only =softer, because of the oils. Certainly, it can be beautiful, and I =expect it will provide as much protection as a rod would need (which, in =all truth, isn't a great deal, if one takes good care of his equipment). cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:13 PMSubject: finish and thread (was growing ferrules) Before I post what I am about to, I want you (Bill) to know that I =agree with you that Tung oil is less of a moisture protectant than the =spar varnish and the polyurethane, but still, thought with finishes =coming into question here, I would post an excerpt from a 1992 brochure =I have from a very respected Rodmaker... "...My rods are not impregnated, and are finished with four = of the best grade of hand applied tung oil varnish..." Good fishing Gary HowellsRodmaker This is from a brochure Mr. Howells sent with the 1992 rod that I =have. Of course this rod has never been fished, but I have seen some of =his rods that have had a lot of service, and gotta say they look as good =as they ever didNow, he doesn't say if he brushed, dipped or hand =rubbed. Just looking at the way the finish lays across the guide wraps =endlessly, I would venture to say that the rods were... Hell, I don't =know how he did it, but it is a damn fine finish and a beautiful rod.. =I have also worked on two older Winston rods, and if the Tung Oil =varnish is a "handed down" tradition from there, then I ain't gonna =argue with it... only thing wrong with those two rods was 1 had a loose =reel seat and the other, the guy had crushed a guide. Nothing at all =compromised about the finishes on either of the Winstons... matter of =fact, the finish was in great shape.Another thing I did notice about the Gary Howells rod that I have =in my possession is that the thread does not appear to be silk. Just =guessing I would say it is NCP nylon (How about it Tom? Same as Winston= Later,Bob From: WILLIAM HARMS RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:40 PMSubject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" It's perfectly true that no finish can stop the migration of ambient =humidity (water vapor) from entering and exiting a cane rod. But that =is not to say that all finishes are "equal" in this regard. The =differences (aside from "degrees" of protection in slowing the humidity =movement) is that some finishes do not even offer much protection =against moisture itself (water)-- and that's the most important =difference. Tung oil offers the least amount of protection against either =humidity or moisture, with the rubbing oil-varnishes being significantly =better in slowing down water vapor movement. Neither of these offers =really good protection against water itself, though the oil-varnishes =are better than the tung oil products. The best finishes in terms of protection are spar varnishes, and =better still, is polyurethane. Best of all is Birchwood Casey's "True =Oil," as this is a polymerized, "conversion formula" that becomes =extremely hard and durable. As to the cane under the cork, I think the primary reason we do not =finish this is so the glue will bond with the surface of the cane =itself. Otherwise, the glue bond under the cork could be no stronger =than the finish. (Moreover, glue is every bit as moisture and water =resistant as any finish we might have applied.) cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ From: "Kling, Barry W." Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:59 PMSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" It's also another indication that, IMHO, all the stuff about thewater-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil =bad) ismostly beside the point. I suspect rods are not really sealed in =either caseand adjust their moisture content to ambient conditions. I even =read a postrecently in which we were instructed to be sure to use a good =varnishinstead of tung oil to keep out moisture, while in the same =message we weretold not to varnish the blank under the cork. How does the =moisture know notto penetrate the cork? And then there are those who soak their =strips beforeplaning, and come out with rods just as lively as any other. I'm being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense to =thosewith different views. But it is one of many common ideas about rod =makingwhich, while advocated confidently, do not seem to be based on anysystematic data. Maybe it's more fun that way. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Seth Steinzor Sent: 3/8/00 2:21 PMSubject: RE: "Growing Ferrules" Does this perhaps mean that it is a mistake to do too much to =controlreintroduction of intercellular moisture after heat treating? As =Iunderstand it, heat treating drives moisture both from within the =cellsofthe bamboo and from between the cells. The intracellular moisture =staysdown, but the intercellular moisture gradually rises again by =absorption from the environment. Some people combat this by keeping theirblanks-in- progress in sealed chambers with dessicant. Maybe =that's notsucha good idea, if the finished rod is just going to reabsorb =atmospheric -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Re: "Growing Ferrules" Harry, Since the rod left your shop with a good fit it must be related =to in the bamboo as John Zimny said, which would then expand the =maleslide to some degree and tighten the fit. If cleaning doesn't =correct the then dirt or film on the surfaces can be ruled out, and the only =other would be expansion. If the expansion were in the nickel silver =thenit seem that the female would expand as well and the fit would =remainfine, since it's getting tighter it seems that the bamboo must be =expanding is more likely anyway, right). The only area of the ferrule surfaces that has bamboo corresponding to it is the male slide =area so must be the culprit. Perhaps the rod is just returning to a =normalamount moisture content over time following your procedures that =initially lot of that moisture. If you are able to re-fit the ferrules =and the then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that =therod returning to it's normal ambiance and it took a couple of months =forit to that. Just guessing on all this. Chris ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF8A6B.7B570EE0 Bob,Well, yes, butthen = = coats of this sort of= of equipment). Bill -----------------------------------------------------Clickhere = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley = Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000= PMSubject: finish and thread (was = ferrules) Before I post what I am about to,= (Bill) to know that I agree with you that Tung oil is less of a = protectant than the spar varnish and the polyurethane, but still, = finishes coming into question here, I would post an excerpt from a = brochure I have from a very respected Rodmaker... "...My = not impregnated, and are finished with four coats = varnish..." Goodfishing Gary Howells Rodmaker This is from a brochure Mr. Howells sent with the = some of his rods that have had a lot of service, and gotta say they = good as they ever didNow, he doesn't say if he brushed, dipped or hand = wraps endlessly, I would venture to say that the rods were... Hell, I = know how he did it, but it is a damn fine finish and a beautiful = have also worked on two older Winston rods, and if the Tung Oil = "handed down" tradition from there, then I ain't gonna argue with = thing wrong with those two rods was 1 had a loose reel seat and the = shape. thing I did notice about the Gary Howells rod that I have in my = Later,Bob KlingB@health.missouri.edu= <KlingB@health.missouri.edu= RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:40 PMSubject: Re: = Ferrules"It's perfectly = finish can stop the migration of ambient humidity (water vapor) from = "degrees" of protection in slowing the humidity movement) is that = finishes do not even offer much protection against moisture itself = difference. Tung oil offers= amount of protection against either humidity or moisture, with the = oil-varnishes being significantly better in slowing down water vapor = products. The bestfinishes = protection are spar varnishes, and better still, is = durable. As to = glue is every bit as moisture and water resistant as any finish we = have applied.) Bill ------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original= From: "Kling, = Sent:Wednesday, = 2000 3:59 PMSubject: RE: = Ferrules" = water-sealing characteristics of finishes (varnish good, tung oil = being rather flippant about it and I don't mean any offense to = MCDOWELL = then remains fine over the long run then that would suggest that = ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF8A6B.7B570EE0-- from harms1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 10 07:58:55 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:58:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF8A6E.C743ACC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF8A6E.C743ACC0 As far as water vapor (ambient humidity) passage through a film of =finish is concerned, it is: 1) inevitable; 2) unable to distinguish =between entering or exiting; 3) constantly occuring over a rate of time =that depends upon type of finish and thickness of film cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Subject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have read = this subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do the = finishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed to = re-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time it = Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture = Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF8A6E.C743ACC0 As far as watervapor = humidity) passage through a film of finish is concerned, it is: 1) = of film Bill------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original = From:"CHRISTOPHER C = Sent: Wednesday,= 9:04 PMSubject: Humidityand = Finishes While = mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF8A6E.C743ACC0-- from harms1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 10 08:04:44 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:04:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Stain?? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0120_01BF8A6F.9092B580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0120_01BF8A6F.9092B580 You might want to try the aniline dyes, as these are not stains, as =such. Stains gain their effect by depositing micro-particles of color =onto (and amongst) the surface grain, whereas dyes have no such =particles, so the thin liquid will sink right into the wood surface. = to add that I have not tried to dye bamboo. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Subject: re: Stain?? A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the Min-wax = In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so non-porous = didn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess = after allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away also. = tried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it = to dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I was = Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "John Hewitt" , on 3/9/00 12:16 PM: To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or =isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John ------=_NextPart_000_0120_01BF8A6F.9092B580 You might want totry = to add that I have= dye bamboo. Bill------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original = From:"CHRISTOPHER C = Sent: Thursday,March = 3:37 PM Stain?? long = = = ------=_NextPart_000_0120_01BF8A6F.9092B580-- from weakley.hollow@gte.net Fri Mar 10 08:38:37 2000 Subject: is this good cane? folks, i was straightening a piece of newly split cane last night. while holding anode over the heat gun, and applying my usual amount of (semi gentle)pressure, the piece broke off, about a quarter inch from the node. breakwas clean and straight, rather than having the brush- like effect of fiberson each side. i've made two rods on the same heat gun setting, samemethods, &c., without having seen such a phenom before. any comments onthequality of the culm? i seem to recall seeing a picture of a similar breakin a book somewhere, and reading that it indicated a poor culm, but i don'tremember where. tks, glm--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 10 08:42:39 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:43:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Stain?? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF8A6C.DCBF7860" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF8A6C.DCBF7860 The only problem with aniline dye is that it fades easily in sun light, =due the ultra-violet. A sun blocker is required to stop this. GMA Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 8:03 AMSubject: Re: Stain?? You might want to try the aniline dyes, as these are not stains, as =such. Stains gain their effect by depositing micro-particles of color =onto (and amongst) the surface grain, whereas dyes have no such =particles, so the thin liquid will sink right into the wood surface. = to add that I have not tried to dye bamboo. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 3:37 PMSubject: re: Stain?? A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the Min-wax = In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so = didn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess = after allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away = tried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it = to dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I = Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "John Hewitt" , on 3/9/00 12:16 PM: To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or =isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the =plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF8A6C.DCBF7860 The only problem with aniline dye is that it fades easily in sun = the ultra-violet. A sun blocker is required to stop this. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Stain?? You might wantto = to add that Ihave = dye bamboo. Bill------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original = From:"CHRISTOPHER = Sent: Thursday, = 3:37 PM Stain?? A = = ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF8A6C.DCBF7860-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Fri Mar 10 09:05:51 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Taper alteration What is the correct way of shortening a 5 weight taper from 91 inches to80inches and what effects would it have on the completed rod? The roddesignis given as a 7.5 foot rod but it's actual measured length is 91 inches.Ernie Harrison from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 10 09:21:47 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:21:19 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: is this good cane? Gary,If you have had no trouble with other pieces of cane from the sameculm, Iwould suspect that you had a bad strip rather than a bad culm. Be sure youcheck the other strips from that culm carefully, but don't automaticallythrowthem all out because of one poor strip. The cause could have been an overfiled or under heated node, or a worm hole, or a blemish on the enamelside, orlots of things.A straight break like that worries me when it is between nodes muchmorethan when it is at the node. Harry weakley.hollow@gte.net wrote: folks, i was straightening a piece of newly split cane last night. while holdinganode over the heat gun, and applying my usual amount of (semi gentle)pressure, the piece broke off, about a quarter inch from the node. breakwas clean and straight, rather than having the brush- like effect offiberson each side. i've made two rods on the same heat gun setting, samemethods, &c., without having seen such a phenom before. any commentson thequality of the culm? i seem to recall seeing a picture of a similar breakin a book somewhere, and reading that it indicated a poor culm, but idon'tremember where. tks, glm--------------------gary misch from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 10 09:25:05 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:24:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Taper alteration Ernie,Is that length with the rod sections joined? Joining the sections iskindof standard when measuring.Shortening the taper by 11 inches is quite a bit. You're going from 7'7"to 6'8" if I read you right. I would plug the orignal taper into Hexrod andshorten it with the computer. But be aware that any rod shortened nearlyafoot will be different than the original. Harry What is the correct way of shortening a 5 weight taper from 91 inchesto 80inches and what effects would it have on the completed rod? The roddesignis given as a 7.5 foot rod but it's actual measured length is 91 inches. from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Fri Mar 10 09:29:55 2000 Subject: Re: franken rod....NOT!!! It was a nice improvisation nonetheless. Kevin from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 10 10:05:39 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Subject: Re: Varnishing using B&B method From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Varnishing using B&B method Shawn, And the best past is that the idea came first from Canada. Bob KambeitzofCalgary used this method a number of years ago and told others of hissuccess. it's cheap/easy and the best part is that it wastes littlevarnish. Tools are replaceable - good idea. Can be mechanized as JerryArbieter of North Vancouver has done. Don from Alberta At 01:01 AM 3/10/00 -0400, you wrote:Just finished varnishing a PHY Perfectionist using a variation on theB&B method. I took a clear plastic 35mm film canister, cut the bottomout and stretched two layers of a quality latex glove over one end. Isecured it with a elastic then put a pinhole in the center. I pulled itup the rod to the cork and put a couple tbsps of heated/thinned Minwaxhelmsman spar urethane in. Then I very slowly lowered the contraptiondown the blank, seemed to take forever but it looks incredible (sofar!!)The rod is hanging in the franken cabinet as we speak drying at 100F .I must say that this is a cool method of doing varnish, veryinexpensive too!looks to be a viable alternative Mark, at least till I can come up withsomething else!! Shawn