http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from caneman@clnk.com Fri Mar 10 10:55:20 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:52:08 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Ferrule Material Darrell,Before you read this, understand that I am not trying to beat you todeath with numbers, but being an engineer by nature, I look at things frommechanical advantage/disadvantage points when I hear of a new idea orinnovation... so don't take this wrong, but I did a little tinkering aroundlast nite in the shop just to see what making the kind of tip over buttjoint you suggest would involve. Now, read it with a smile, and don't takeanything as a flame here, it is just my point of view backed by a littlemeasuring, weighing and calculating.I understand your point about wanting to see if something can be donethat hasn't, and to a certain extent, I understand wanting to try thingsnew, and that many of traditionalist (and I guess I am one to a certainextent) don't want to hear about anything new being tried. My point is,that ferrules are cheap, and making a ferrule on a lathe is more cost/timeeffective than trying to make a tapered fit bamboo "joint" on a rod. Yourpoint did get me curious, and I tried to set down and do a little numbercrunching, and I think if you will do the same, you can see that the castingcharacteristics of a rod with a tapered bamboo joint/ferrule would bemuchmore affected than you think it would. The taper would have to bedrastically altered, especially in the first 10 inches aft of the joint. Ithink your wieght concerns over the nickel silver ferrules would beinsignificant. The amount of cane that would have to be added wouldweighmore than a set of ferrules with walls 0.0175" thick (typical of a Super Ztype ferrule). Considering the stress, shear and strain values of bamboocompared to that of 18% nickel silver, the bamboo would have to be about8.5times as thick to have the same effective strength as the Nickel silverferrules... that would make a typical joint have to be almost .30" largerthan a traditional NS ferrule joint, plus, since you have to taper up tothis joint, then, even if you do it very rapidly, lets say you have a 2.5"area over which the "swell" is developed then allow an inch for thetaperedfit on the butt end of it, then you have added a piece of bamboo thatweighs6.4 grams... an 11/64ths Super Z type ferrule weighs 5.0 grams (notguessingat these, weighed on my triple beam scales, both ferrules and bamboo...andI did take a piece of scrap end cut from a blank, basically straight sandedon my belt sander, from a 1/2d inch section down to a .250d over the areawhere the swell would have to put when planed or milled in, drilled theendof the scrap with a 1/8" bit and used a violin peg reamer to ream out atapered hole in the end for a butt section to go into... didn't take long, Ihave plenty of scrap! LOL) so you are, actually not removing weight bygetting rid of the NS ferrule, but adding weight. Note that the actualdimensions of my little test piece is about .050" smaller than what wouldberequired to have the same strength as a NS ferrule, so the weight wouldprobably be an couple of tenths of a gram more. This much differencewoulddefinitely require more "meat" in the butt section which adds more weighttothe overall rod. Pretty much, it would be like putting the weight of a17/64ths superZ ferrule on a 4 weight rod. That is a lot of difference.And again, I must reiterate aesthetics. You have a rod with a tip sectionthat would be, normally, relatively small at it's thickest point, lets say.162 on my 6' 2wt, at its largest point, that now has a swell in it that, inorder to be strong and reliable, that would now have to be swelled up to.462... That is a half inch lump in the middle of an otherwise steamlineddelicate rod... that normally weighs 48.5 grams (just finished one so itwasconvenient to weigh the 2 wt) or 1.7 ounces, that now has at least 1.4gramsmore at the ferrule location(the bamboo of the butt has to fill the taperedhole, so that would add another 2 grams to the joint) and (just estimatinghere) probably another 4 grams added overall in the butt section to add thematerial necessary to make up for the heavier ferrule, adding a total of atleast 5.4 grams to the overall weight of the rod, making it over .2 ouncesheavier than a NS ferruled rod.As far as the power fiber issue, I do have to disagree on that. I havebuilt over 200 rods to day, and restored God knows how many. I tried thisconcept of removing outer material from a rod to change its castingcharacteristics on older 9 footers in making them into 6 footers for otherpeople, and my experience is that the rods cast like shit when you starttaking off very much of the outer layers. The inner layer of cane is pithand has no grain... that is all the power fibers are is the grain of thegrass, and without those, the grass (cane) loses a lot of thecharacteristics that make it what it is...You have done a lot of things and posted them on this list that are veryinteresting, very good, very innovative, and I appreciate that, but I failto see where there would be any advantage to an innovation that wouldmake arod bulkier and heavier for the sake of saving the cost of a set offerrules.One final note, if you are going try this, I would like to suggest thatyou contact a Luthiers supply house and get a violin peg shave (like a veryaccurate pencil sharpener) and a tapered reamer built for violin pegs. Thiswould give you as perfect a fit as possible on your tapered joint. I have aset, and if I remember right, they only cost about 30 each and I thinkInternational Violin Supply (you can find them somewhere on the net)carriesthem. OK, Now I have a brain cramp and need more coffee! *S* Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Material I think you have the wrong idea about my experimentsin rod building. It isn't to make a rod to sell for$1000.00. Mostly it is to see if it can be done.People making cane rods are so tradition bound, andeveryone is so afraid to do something different becauseit might not be accepted by other cane rod people thatnothing innovative ever gets tried. Swelling the butt end of a tip section can't bedone over short enoughof a physical area to NOT have a noticable effect thestress curve and theway the rod casts. Even if this does have a noticeable effect on the stresscurve, well then, adjust the taper to compensate! Well, now you have to turndown the tip end of the butt section to go inside it, so unless younearlydouble the dimension of the butt end of the tip, then you are going tohaveto turn the majority of the power fibers off of the end of the buttsectionto get it to fit inside the tip... As I have said before - "power fibers" at least whatmost people call "power fibers" (the layer of tinyfibers right under the enamel) are highly overrated.I have made rods where I planed away all the "powerfibers" and the rod casts fine. It is not a softnoodle, it does not break at the touch of a feather,it casts and fishes just fine. And no, the taper isn't massive to compensate for theadded weight. Remember we are getting rid of the weightof the metal ferrule, and even more bamboo for the swelled sectiondoesn'tweigh as much as the metal. Darryl from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Mar 10 11:11:05 2000 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id Subject: Re: Taper alteration The problem that you will hit is forshortening a taper is that the naturalcompression pushes the shift dimensions off of the normal 5" centers - sosome 'fudging' is needed -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Taper alteration Ernie,Is that length with the rod sections joined? Joining the sections iskindof standard when measuring.Shortening the taper by 11 inches is quite a bit. You're going from7'7"to 6'8" if I read you right. I would plug the orignal taper into Hexrodandshorten it with the computer. But be aware that any rod shortened nearlyafoot will be different than the original. Harry What is the correct way of shortening a 5 weight taper from 91 inchesto80inches and what effects would it have on the completed rod? The roddesignis given as a 7.5 foot rod but it's actual measured length is 91 inches. from Neil126@aol.com Fri Mar 10 11:20:27 2000 Subject: Planing Form Input I would be interested if anyone has hadexperience with the Munro "Hex" MasterSignature series of planing forms? As I do not want to cause a great discussionon this subject, private responces will workjust fine. Thank you in advance for your input. Neil Swanson from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Mar 10 12:19:38 2000 Subject: Re: is this good cane? Hi Gary,I think Harry's resonse was right on. Remember too, that culms are usuallystraightened somewhat before they are shipped to us and that it's possiblesome damage may have occurred in that process.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: is this good cane? folks, i was straightening a piece of newly split cane last night. while holdinganode over the heat gun, and applying my usual amount of (semi gentle)pressure, the piece broke off, about a quarter inch from the node. breakwas clean and straight, rather than having the brush- like effect offiberson each side. i've made two rods on the same heat gun setting, samemethods, &c., without having seen such a phenom before. any commentsonthequality of the culm? i seem to recall seeing a picture of a similar breakin a book somewhere, and reading that it indicated a poor culm, but idon'tremember where. tks, glm--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Mar 10 12:26:06 2000 Subject: Re: Taper alteration Hi Ernie,If you would like to send me the existing taper of the rod in 5" incrementsalong with the line size you plan to use and an indication of whether or notthere is any broken or damaged pieces, I'd be glad to run a computeranalysis for you and give you a recommendation.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Taper alteration What is the correct way of shortening a 5 weight taper from 91 inchesto80inches and what effects would it have on the completed rod? The roddesignis given as a 7.5 foot rod but it's actual measured length is 91 inches.Ernie Harrison from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Mar 10 13:00:10 2000 Subject: RE: Humidity and Finishes Right. And if there was any doubt that rods adjust to ambient humidityregardless of finish, the recent posts on shrinking and growing ferrulesshould dispell them. If the bamboo inside a ferrule can change in watercontent, as they clearly do, the same must certainly happen in the rest ofthe rod. That being the case, I can't think of any reason the waterproofness of afinish would matter. BK -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes As far as water vapor (ambient humidity) passage through a film of finishisconcerned, it is: 1) inevitable; 2) unable to distinguish between enteringor exiting; 3) constantly occuring over a rate of time that depends upontype of finish and thickness of film cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- mcdowellc@lanecc.edu> RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu> Subject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have read upon this subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevarious finishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed to re- enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry, in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ernie2@pacbell.net Fri Mar 10 13:10:54 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Taper alteration I guess my confusion was caused by my misunderstanding of what pointsreallyare in a rod taper. I was reading them as inches, but it seems they mustbejust points along the rod length and can vary as far as actual length ininches is concerned. Example: a 90" rod that has 80 points in it's taperwould have a point value equal to 1.125" and a 90" rod with 90 points init's taper would have a point value of 1". Is this correct?Ernie Harrison from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Mar 10 13:48:50 2000 Subject: Re: Ferrule Material Bob,You are Right! I am Wrong! WHAT ever was I thinking??!!This tip over butt ferrule is going in the trash can right now!!! Next time I think of something new I'll clear it withyou first! Thank you for setting me on the "Right Path". Darryl from brewer@teleport.com Fri Mar 10 14:03:53 2000 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAAc9t_s_; Fri Mar 10 12:03:492000 Subject: Re: Planing Form Input I have one and am very satisfied. You should know that I have planed out 5rods so far, so I'm no expert. I had no problems with Jon. Everything wasasrepresented. -Randy Brewer ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Planing Form Input I would be interested if anyone has hadexperience with the Munro "Hex" MasterSignature series of planing forms? As I do not want to cause a great discussionon this subject, private responces will workjust fine. Thank you in advance for your input. Neil Swanson from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 10 14:06:31 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:06:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Taper alteration Ernie,No, you had it right the first time, but I think I can help. Many of thepublished tapers seem to be 10" or so shorter than the actual rod length. Thelast 10 inches is usually not measured because it is under the grip and thereelseat. We usually assume that the measurements under the cork and reelseat arethe same as the largest measurement. To convert that 80 inchmeasurement into arod of 90 inches, just use the same measurement at 80", 85", and 90". Thatshould do the trick. 0 - .0705 - .078etc,75 - .31880 - .335One can fairly safely assume that the measurements at 85 and 90inches willalso be .335. Hope this helps,Harry Ernie Harrison wrote: I guess my confusion was caused by my misunderstanding of what pointsreallyare in a rod taper. I was reading them as inches, but it seems they mustbejust points along the rod length and can vary as far as actual length ininches is concerned. Example: a 90" rod that has 80 points in it's taperwould have a point value equal to 1.125" and a 90" rod with 90 points init's taper would have a point value of 1". Is this correct?Ernie Harrison --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Mar 10 15:30:55 2000 (MET) Subject: Re: Taper alteration boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3035658476_23245_MIME_Part" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3035658476_23245_MIME_Part To all... Is the same happening if You lenghten it as well, I mean will it differentmuch from the original? regardsdanny------>--------work From: Harry Boyd Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:22:11 -0600 Cc: Rodmakers Subject: Re: Taper alteration Ernie,Is that length with the rod sections joined? Joining the sections is kindof standard when measuring.Shortening the taper by 11 inches is quite a bit. You're going from 7'7"to 6'8" if I read you right. I would plug the orignal taper into Hexrod andshorten it with the computer. But be aware that any rod shortenednearly afoot will be different than the original. Harry --MS_Mac_OE_3035658476_23245_MIME_Part Re: Taper alteration To all... Is the same happening if You lenghten it as well, I mean will it different =much from the original? regardsdanny Danny Twang section=s is kind into Hexrod and shortene=d nearly a --MS_Mac_OE_3035658476_23245_MIME_Part-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 10 17:19:32 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:20:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes Now that I think of it, I have an unfinished extra tip to my PHY #11Parabolic, that split the male ferrule, just sitting in its case. It wouldstill fit the female though ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Humidity and Finishes Right. And if there was any doubt that rods adjust to ambient humidityregardless of finish, the recent posts on shrinking and growing ferrulesshould dispell them. If the bamboo inside a ferrule can change in watercontent, as they clearly do, the same must certainly happen in the restofthe rod. That being the case, I can't think of any reason the waterproofness of afinish would matter. BK -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes As far as water vapor (ambient humidity) passage through a film offinishisconcerned, it is: 1) inevitable; 2) unable to distinguish between enteringor exiting; 3) constantly occuring over a rate of time that depends upontype of finish and thickness of film cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" mcdowellc@lanecc.edu> RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu>Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have readuponthis subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevariousfinishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed tore-enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry,in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rafick@3riversweb.net Fri Mar 10 17:39:25 2000 0000 Subject: re.BFR I have been thinking about all the comments about the BFR mag.Instead of writing it off as a lost cause, wouldn't it be in the bestinterest of all cane rodmakers to see the idea succeed.?What can we do to help bring this about.? I don't know any details of theproblems other than the obvious $$$$$$ involved with putting out apublication such as this,(high quality) not a lot I can do about that.Any suggestions welcome. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo FlyrodsThe best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from harms1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 10 18:32:00 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:31:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Stain?? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8AC7.32D04C20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8AC7.32D04C20 Well that's true of most anniline dyes, but there are some that do not =fade. Moreover, if one uses a good exterior-grade varnish (spar or =poly), these usually have the needed UV filters in the formula. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 9:44 AMSubject: Re: Stain?? The only problem with aniline dye is that it fades easily in sun =light, due the ultra-violet. A sun blocker is required to stop this. GMA Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 8:03 AMSubject: Re: Stain?? You might want to try the aniline dyes, as these are not stains, as =such. Stains gain their effect by depositing micro-particles of color =onto (and amongst) the surface grain, whereas dyes have no such =particles, so the thin liquid will sink right into the wood surface. = to add that I have not tried to dye bamboo. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 3:37 PMSubject: re: Stain?? A long time ago I tried staining a bamboo blank. I used the = In my opinion it didn't work very well. The bamboo was so = didn't want to retain the color, and when I would wipe the excess = after allowing it to sit for a while, the color would wipe away = tried to leave it on a little thicker and the result was that it = to dry. I realize these problems may be specific to the product I = Chris ---------- Original Text ---------- From: "John Hewitt" , on 3/9/00 12:16 PM: To All,Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? =Or isthe only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the =plussesand or drawbacks to staining bamboo?John ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8AC7.32D04C20 Well that's trueof = exterior-grade varnish (spar or poly), these usually have the needed UV = in the formula. Bill -----------------------------------------------------Clickhere = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- nobler = Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Stain?? The only problem with aniline dye is that it fades easily in sun = due the ultra-violet. A sun blocker is required to stop this. GMA ----- Original Message ----- HARMS = Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Stain?? You might wantto = effect by depositing micro-particles of color onto = to add that I = to dye bamboo. Bill------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original= From: = Sent: Thursday,= 2000 3:37 PM Stain?? A = it on a little thicker and the result was that it didn't want = Just curious, has anyone ever used stain on a raw blank? Or = only way to get color to heat treat or flame? What are the = ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8AC7.32D04C20-- from anglport@con2.com Fri Mar 10 21:42:29 2000 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A03926C6008C; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:40:41 -0500 Subject: RE: Humidity and Finishes All,As I'm sure John Channer and several others on the list will confirm,woodpanles like tabletops are supposed to be finished on both sides so that theconstant movement of the wood doesn't cause them to cup due to one sideabsorbing more moisture than the other. Not because one side WILL absorband the other WON'T, but because they'll do it at different rates. This isalso the reason that fully-finished panels are left to "float" in theframes of doors and carcases of bureaus etc. I have read this, disbelievedit, and personally confirmed it! Not on more than one piece, thankfully; IAM trainable!The stuff doesn't ever DIE! (I know, we're talking grass and not wood,but......) It's in constant movement as the seasons and ambienttemperatures and humidities change. I suspect all we ever do is fit thecane so that its natural swelling and shrinking is narrowed enough so it"lives" within the ferrule without shrivelling away from the inner surfaceor expanding so much it destroys its "confinement".I have built many pieces of furniture with varnish finishes whichwillstand a sweating ice-filled glass standing and dripping on the surface allnight and not show ill effects, but those same surfaces will change sizeorshape from August to Feb every lousy year.I must admit, I was surprised to read that Fine Woodworking articleawhileback on the benefits of immersing in wax over a good varnishing, but thebest we can do, I think, is to slow the absorption/release rate enough soit doesn't gallop back and forth like an overeager puppy!No scotch rings on my rods (but some on my planing forms),Art At 12:59 PM 03/10/2000 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: Right. And if there was any doubt that rods adjust to ambient humidityregardless of finish, the recent posts on shrinking and growing ferrulesshould dispell them. If the bamboo inside a ferrule can change in watercontent, as they clearly do, the same must certainly happen in the rest ofthe rod. That being the case, I can't think of any reason the waterproofness of afinish would matter. BK -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Humidity and Finishes As far as water vapor (ambient humidity) passage through a film offinish isconcerned, it is: 1) inevitable; 2) unable to distinguish between enteringor exiting; 3) constantly occuring over a rate of time that depends upontype of finish and thickness of film cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" mcdowellc@lanecc.edu> RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu>Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:04 PMSubject: Humidity and Finishes While we're on this subject I have a question for those that have read upon this subject in the woodworking magazines or elsewhere. Do thevarious finishes differ in terms of how much total moisture is ever allowed to re- enter the rod or do they really only differ in the rate of time ittakes Also, do the finishes that provide a slower rate of ambiant moistureentry, in turn, provide a slower rate of ambiant moisture exiting the rod? Thanks,Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from stpete@netten.net Fri Mar 10 22:15:14 2000 Fri, 10 Mar 2000 22:19:54 -0600 Subject: Reply to BFR - rant warning! do not read if easily offended. Rick, Of course it would be in our interest to see it succeed!! But is this alabor of love? OR, does the publisher expect to make a profit? Why doesthe publisher not send out a notice of his problems and what he is doingto correct them - he obviously has some major ones. Customers areusually understanding if they are dealt with honestly. At this point,however, it seems the most insurmountable obstacle for the future ofthis magazine is the one he is creating with the ill will generated byboth his failure to meet obligations AND his silence. I was quick tosend the check for the charter subscription, but I'll be hanged if I amgoing to support an entity that doesn't have the courtesy to let thecustomer know what is going on. Why should they have to rely on goodpeople like you, Darryl, Bret, and Ralph to stick up for them? Whycan't they send a monthly e-mail to this list and let the group knowwhat is going on? I learned to build rods as many of this list did. I had a book andsomehow found this group. I've learned more from the good people ofthis list than I have from the BFR. Too bad. There is just not enoughinterest to make it go I'm afraid. Fact is, it is probably moreimportant to professional rod builders and collectors than it is to theaverage Joe rodbuilder on this list. I'm sorry if Mr. Metcalf is havinga rough go of it. I don't sense that he cares one way or the otherabout the customer. After all the late issues and the public postingshere and on VFS about "what is happening with BFR?", the only word Ihave heard from Mr. Metcalf is that it is time for me to renew. I ammore than willing to pay for the magazine, but I feel it is time to letthis go and move on. Rick C. R.A.Fick wrote: I have been thinking about all the comments about the BFR mag.Instead of writing it off as a lost cause, wouldn't it be in the bestinterest of all cane rodmakers to see the idea succeed.?What can we do to help bring this about.? I don't know any details of theproblems other than the obvious $$$$$$ involved with putting out apublication such as this,(high quality) not a lot I can do about that.Any suggestions welcome. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo FlyrodsThe best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Sat Mar 11 04:17:20 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Re: Reply to BFR - rant warning! do not read if easily offended. Rick C, Agreed........Paul B "Rick C." wrote: Rick, Of course it would be in our interest to see it succeed!! But is this alabor of love? OR, does the publisher expect to make a profit? Why doesthe publisher not send out a notice of his problems and what he is doingto correct them - he obviously has some major ones. Customers areusually understanding if they are dealt with honestly. At this point,however, it seems the most insurmountable obstacle for the future ofthis magazine is the one he is creating with the ill will generated byboth his failure to meet obligations AND his silence. I was quick tosend the check for the charter subscription, but I'll be hanged if I amgoing to support an entity that doesn't have the courtesy to let thecustomer know what is going on. Why should they have to rely on goodpeople like you, Darryl, Bret, and Ralph to stick up for them? Whycan't they send a monthly e-mail to this list and let the group knowwhat is going on? I learned to build rods as many of this list did. I had a book andsomehow found this group. I've learned more from the good people ofthis list than I have from the BFR. Too bad. There is just not enoughinterest to make it go I'm afraid. Fact is, it is probably moreimportant to professional rod builders and collectors than it is to theaverage Joe rodbuilder on this list. I'm sorry if Mr. Metcalf is havinga rough go of it. I don't sense that he cares one way or the otherabout the customer. After all the late issues and the public postingshere and on VFS about "what is happening with BFR?", the only word Ihave heard from Mr. Metcalf is that it is time for me to renew. I ammore than willing to pay for the magazine, but I feel it is time to letthis go and move on. Rick C. R.A.Fick wrote: I have been thinking about all the comments about the BFR mag.Instead of writing it off as a lost cause, wouldn't it be in the bestinterest of all cane rodmakers to see the idea succeed.?What can we do to help bring this about.? I don't know any details oftheproblems other than the obvious $$$$$$ involved with putting out apublication such as this,(high quality) not a lot I can do about that.Any suggestions welcome. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo FlyrodsThe best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 11 07:21:05 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:21:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Reply to BFR - rant warning! do not read if easily offended. This is the main thing..........silence ! If we were given any encouragementthat he will fill orders even, I think most would ride it out with him. Youmay be correct Rick, about the volume not being enough to support it, butwith today's fly fishing population, it's hard to believe there's not enoughinterest. I ordered the back issues, because I found the one issue so interesting, andwas prepared to send another check for a new subscription, until I neverreceived the back issues ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Reply to BFR - rant warning! do not read if easily offended. Rick, Of course it would be in our interest to see it succeed!! But is this alabor of love? OR, does the publisher expect to make a profit? Why doesthe publisher not send out a notice of his problems and what he is doingto correct them - he obviously has some major ones. Customers areusually understanding if they are dealt with honestly. At this point,however, it seems the most insurmountable obstacle for the future ofthis magazine is the one he is creating with the ill will generated byboth his failure to meet obligations AND his silence. I was quick tosend the check for the charter subscription, but I'll be hanged if I amgoing to support an entity that doesn't have the courtesy to let thecustomer know what is going on. Why should they have to rely on goodpeople like you, Darryl, Bret, and Ralph to stick up for them? Whycan't they send a monthly e-mail to this list and let the group knowwhat is going on? I learned to build rods as many of this list did. I had a book andsomehow found this group. I've learned more from the good people ofthis list than I have from the BFR. Too bad. There is just not enoughinterest to make it go I'm afraid. Fact is, it is probably moreimportant to professional rod builders and collectors than it is to theaverage Joe rodbuilder on this list. I'm sorry if Mr. Metcalf is havinga rough go of it. I don't sense that he cares one way or the otherabout the customer. After all the late issues and the public postingshere and on VFS about "what is happening with BFR?", the only word Ihave heard from Mr. Metcalf is that it is time for me to renew. I ammore than willing to pay for the magazine, but I feel it is time to letthis go and move on. Rick C. R.A.Fick wrote: I have been thinking about all the comments about the BFR mag.Instead of writing it off as a lost cause, wouldn't it be in the bestinterest of all cane rodmakers to see the idea succeed.?What can we do to help bring this about.? I don't know any details oftheproblems other than the obvious $$$$$$ involved with putting out apublication such as this,(high quality) not a lot I can do about that.Any suggestions welcome. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo FlyrodsThe best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Mar 11 07:46:32 2000 Subject: Re: Turnaround for REC components I've had the same experience that Ray has had-all good.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Mar 11 07:48:55 2000 Subject: Re: tapers Frank and Jerry,Just a short note to thank you both for your excellent work. While I haven't used everything available that you've developed for the rodmakers (I'm still graphing my tapers to design or alter them-some will never seethe light of day again :) ), what I have used has been great.Regards,Hank. from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat Mar 11 09:09:38 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Taper alteration Thanks to every one who responded to my question, My problem was thatsometapers did not include the part under the grip and reel seat and did notstate this.Ernie Harrison -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Taper alteration Hi Ernie,If you would like to send me the existing taper of the rod in 5"incrementsalong with the line size you plan to use and an indication of whether ornotthere is any broken or damaged pieces, I'd be glad to run a computeranalysis for you and give you a recommendation.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Ernie Harrison Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 7:03 AMSubject: Taper alteration What is the correct way of shortening a 5 weight taper from 91 inchesto80inches and what effects would it have on the completed rod? The roddesignis given as a 7.5 foot rod but it's actual measured length is 91 inches.Ernie Harrison from oossg@vbe.com Sat Mar 11 09:51:10 2000 Subject: Re: re.BFR boundary="------------F5A9B217A9B5D68AB99AC930" --------------F5A9B217A9B5D68AB99AC930 RickI agree with you that we should want to see this mag succeed. I sent e- mailto the BFR and offered to send a self addressed STAMPED envelope to sendmethe latest edition.I never received any reply. Very disappointed.Scott "R.A.Fick" wrote: I have been thinking about all the comments about the BFR mag.Instead of writing it off as a lost cause, wouldn't it be in the bestinterest of all cane rodmakers to see the idea succeed.?What can we do to help bring this about.? I don't know any details of theproblems other than the obvious $$$$$$ involved with putting out apublication such as this,(high quality) not a lot I can do about that.Any suggestions welcome. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo FlyrodsThe best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ --------------F5A9B217A9B5D68AB99AC930 Rick STAMPEDenvelope to send me the latest edition. Scott"R.A.Fick" wrote:I have been thinking about all the comments aboutthe BFR mag.Instead of writing it off as a lost cause, wouldn't it be in the bestinterest of all cane rodmakers to see the idea succeed.?What can we do to help bring this about.? I don't know any detailsof theproblems other than the obvious $$$$$$ involved with putting out apublication such as this,(high quality) not a lot I can do about that.Any suggestions welcome.RickR.A.Fick Bamboo FlyrodsThe best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ --------------F5A9B217A9B5D68AB99AC930-- from ggwillia@bellsouth.net Sat Mar 11 10:41:13 2000 Subject: South Bend Reel Seat I'm looking for a South Bend reel seat manufactured during the 50'sand 60's if anyone has one they'd like to sell. Thanks. from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Sat Mar 11 11:40:52 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Mar 2000 17:33:16 +0000 Subject: Abercrombie & Fitch Hardy Banty Rods Can anyone on the list supply me with a taper for the Hardy 4'4" BantyRod they produced for the New York sporting goods store Abercrombie andFitch ?Any other details about this particular model would also be appreciated.Hardy's have one of these rods in there museum in Alnwick, England butall attempts to get an inspection of the rod or details released havebeen unsuccesful. Many thanks......Paul B from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 11 13:49:08 2000 Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:48:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Hardy Banty Rods I would also like to see that. ThanksShawn Pineo paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com wrote: Can anyone on the list supply me with a taper for the Hardy 4'4" BantyRod they produced for the New York sporting goods store AbercrombieandFitch ?Any other details about this particular model would also be appreciated.Hardy's have one of these rods in there museum in Alnwick, England butall attempts to get an inspection of the rod or details released havebeen unsuccesful. Many thanks......Paul B from chris@artistree.com Sat Mar 11 13:54:10 2000 Subject: Re: South Bend Reel Seat This is just an idea...well...actually I did do it once. I used a SouthBend Reel Seat off one of their fiberglass rods as replacement. Workedout well.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Gary Williams wrote: I'm looking for a South Bend reel seat manufactured during the 50'sand 60's if anyone has one they'd like to sell. Thanks. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Mar 11 14:40:56 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:39:53 Subject: Guide placement I'm just finishing an F.E. Thomas, 6'8" 3 wt from Howell's book. Wouldanyone have a decent guide placement for such a rod? Thanks in advance, Richard from saweiss@flash.net Sat Mar 11 15:04:03 2000 Subject: Re: is this good cane? Gary,The ones that I've broken like that, I've overheated. If the strip isotherwise worthy, You can scarf repair it as though it were a nodelesssplice.Steve i was straightening a piece of newly split cane last night. while holdinganode over the heat gun, and applying my usual amount of (semi gentle)pressure, the piece broke off, about a quarter inch from the node. breakwas clean and straight, rather than having the brush- like effect offiberson each side. i've made two rods on the same heat gun setting, samemethods, &c., without having seen such a phenom before. any commentsonthequality of the culm? i seem to recall seeing a picture of a similar breakin a book somewhere, and reading that it indicated a poor culm, but idon'tremember where. tks, glm--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from dannyt@frisurf.no Sat Mar 11 15:23:03 2000 (MET) Subject: PHY Princess Does anybody on the list have the taper for the PHY Princess?I've search the archive but couldn't find it.... TIAdanny ------>--------work from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Mar 11 16:48:24 2000 Subject: RE: Ferrule Material Bob - With a similar no-flame disclaimer......my Dad is also an engineer and Ilove him very much. But one of the things I've learned about engineers isthat in the absence of empirical testing they can come up with a very niceexplanation, complete with math, for whatever seems likely to them. Theelegance and plausibility of the explanation has little relationship to itscorrectness. Sometimes engineers even prefer their reasoning to reality.Inresponse to this my father coined one of my favorite expressions. When hewould be out on the testing range in New Mexico or somewhere like that(hewas in aerospace) and something went wrong and the engineers couldn'tunderstand it, they often called it a random failure. The next timesomething worked, my father would say it didn't mean a damn thing, andwhenthey asked why he'd explain it was just a random success. So my conclusion is.....don't be so sure until it is tested in the realworld. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Material Darrell,Before you read this, understand that I am not trying to beat you todeath with numbers, but being an engineer by nature, I look at thingsfrommechanical advantage/disadvantage points when I hear of a new idea orinnovation... so don't take this wrong, but I did a little tinkeringaroundlast nite in the shop just to see what making the kind of tip over buttjoint you suggest would involve. Now, read it with a smile, and don'ttakeanything as a flame here, it is just my point of view backed by a littlemeasuring, weighing and calculating.I understand your point about wanting to see if something can bedonethat hasn't, and to a certain extent, I understand wanting to try thingsnew, and that many of traditionalist (and I guess I am one to a certainextent) don't want to hear about anything new being tried. My point is,that ferrules are cheap, and making a ferrule on a lathe is morecost/timeeffective than trying to make a tapered fit bamboo "joint" on a rod.Yourpoint did get me curious, and I tried to set down and do a little numbercrunching, and I think if you will do the same, you can see that thecastingcharacteristics of a rod with a tapered bamboo joint/ferrule would bemuchmore affected than you think it would. The taper would have to bedrastically altered, especially in the first 10 inches aft of the joint.Ithink your wieght concerns over the nickel silver ferrules would beinsignificant. The amount of cane that would have to be added wouldweighmore than a set of ferrules with walls 0.0175" thick (typical of a SuperZtype ferrule). Considering the stress, shear and strain values of bamboocompared to that of 18% nickel silver, the bamboo would have to be about8.5times as thick to have the same effective strength as the Nickel silverferrules... that would make a typical joint have to be almost .30"largerthan a traditional NS ferrule joint, plus, since you have to taper up tothis joint, then, even if you do it very rapidly, lets say you have a2.5"area over which the "swell" is developed then allow an inch for thetaperedfit on the butt end of it, then you have added a piece of bamboo thatweighs6.4 grams... an 11/64ths Super Z type ferrule weighs 5.0 grams (notguessingat these, weighed on my triple beam scales, both ferrules and bamboo...andI did take a piece of scrap end cut from a blank, basically straightsandedon my belt sander, from a 1/2d inch section down to a .250d over theareawhere the swell would have to put when planed or milled in, drilled theendof the scrap with a 1/8" bit and used a violin peg reamer to ream out atapered hole in the end for a butt section to go into... didn't takelong, Ihave plenty of scrap! LOL) so you are, actually not removing weight bygetting rid of the NS ferrule, but adding weight. Note that the actualdimensions of my little test piece is about .050" smaller than whatwould berequired to have the same strength as a NS ferrule, so the weight wouldprobably be an couple of tenths of a gram more. This much differencewoulddefinitely require more "meat" in the butt section which adds moreweight tothe overall rod. Pretty much, it would be like putting the weight of a17/64ths superZ ferrule on a 4 weight rod. That is a lot of difference.And again, I must reiterate aesthetics. You have a rod with a tipsectionthat would be, normally, relatively small at it's thickest point, letssay.162 on my 6' 2wt, at its largest point, that now has a swell in itthat, inorder to be strong and reliable, that would now have to be swelled up to.462... That is a half inch lump in the middle of an otherwisesteamlineddelicate rod... that normally weighs 48.5 grams (just finished one so itwasconvenient to weigh the 2 wt) or 1.7 ounces, that now has at least 1.4gramsmore at the ferrule location(the bamboo of the butt has to fill thetaperedhole, so that would add another 2 grams to the joint) and (justestimatinghere) probably another 4 grams added overall in the butt section to addthematerial necessary to make up for the heavier ferrule, adding a total ofatleast 5.4 grams to the overall weight of the rod, making it over .2ouncesheavier than a NS ferruled rod.As far as the power fiber issue, I do have to disagree on that. Ihavebuilt over 200 rods to day, and restored God knows how many. I triedthisconcept of removing outer material from a rod to change its castingcharacteristics on older 9 footers in making them into 6 footers forotherpeople, and my experience is that the rods cast like shit when you starttaking off very much of the outer layers. The inner layer of cane ispithand has no grain... that is all the power fibers are is the grain of thegrass, and without those, the grass (cane) loses a lot of thecharacteristics that make it what it is...You have done a lot of things and posted them on this list that areveryinteresting, very good, very innovative, and I appreciate that, but Ifailto see where there would be any advantage to an innovation that wouldmake arod bulkier and heavier for the sake of saving the cost of a set offerrules.One final note, if you are going try this, I would like to suggestthatyou contact a Luthiers supply house and get a violin peg shave (like averyaccurate pencil sharpener) and a tapered reamer built for violin pegs.Thiswould give you as perfect a fit as possible on your tapered joint. Ihave aset, and if I remember right, they only cost about 30 each and I thinkInternational Violin Supply (you can find them somewhere on the net)carriesthem. OK, Now I have a brain cramp and need more coffee! *S* Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Material I think you have the wrong idea about my experimentsin rod building. It isn't to make a rod to sell for$1000.00. Mostly it is to see if it can be done.People making cane rods are so tradition bound, andeveryone is so afraid to do something different becauseit might not be accepted by other cane rod people thatnothing innovative ever gets tried. Swelling the butt end of a tip section can't bedone over short enoughof a physical area to NOT have a noticable effect thestress curve and theway the rod casts. Even if this does have a noticeable effect on the stresscurve, well then, adjust the taper to compensate! Well, now you have to turndown the tip end of the butt section to go inside it, so unless younearlydouble the dimension of the butt end of the tip, then you are goingtohaveto turn the majority of the power fibers off of the end of the buttsectionto get it to fit inside the tip... As I have said before - "power fibers" at least whatmost people call "power fibers" (the layer of tinyfibers right under the enamel) are highly overrated.I have made rods where I planed away all the "powerfibers" and the rod casts fine. It is not a softnoodle, it does not break at the touch of a feather,it casts and fishes just fine. And no, the taper isn't massive to compensate for theadded weight. Remember we are getting rid of the weightof the metal ferrule, and even more bamboo for the swelled sectiondoesn'tweigh as much as the metal. Darryl from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 11 17:01:11 2000 Subject: Thanks I would just like to thank everyone who sent positive counters to thenegative "FERTILIZER" I received from a couple of people this past weekabout franken tools. Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess ;^)I have a lot of fun with these tools and the funny comments andquestions they produce. Hopefully once things die down a bit (do theyever really die down?) after this sportsman's show I will try to updatethe page a bit and maybe even finally get my web page done.Thanks again,Shawn from caneman@clnk.com Sat Mar 11 17:32:00 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:28:45 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Ferrule Material Barry,I understand what you are saying and by no means take it as a flame,andI wasn't telling Darryl not to try it, as a matter of fact, I even suggestedwhere he could get the proper tools to make the taper fit he wants tomake,as precise as would be necessary.You are right, it's my nature I guess to make assumptions based onempirical evidence (math, measuring and weighing of the pieces, etc.) andtheory and not so much on testing. My point is, if I am going to design anew and improved duck, and I do all the calculations build some of theparts, do the math and measurements, then I put all the parts and figuresonpaper, scaled carefully, and it looks more like an elephant than a duck,then I am not going to build. Especially when I have a shop full ofperfectly good "traditional" duck parts. Darryl was right to wonder, andshould continue on to build this if he so desires. Nothing wrong with that,and I would like to see what it turns out like and how well it functions asopposed to a traditional rod. Darryl took my message as being degrading,while, if he had read it completely, he would have seen that he sparked mycuriosity so much that I DID make a tapered section of bamboo with ataperedhole in it, much like I understood his "over the butt" ferrule idea torepresent, and after weighing it found it to be heavier than a NS ferrule.Only difference was that when I built the bamboo "ferrule" to see if it hadany merit, I relied on known properties and values and not on merely "letmetry it this way". As one who is obviously educated in the sciences, I feelsure you understand my approach.To be honest, now I wish I hadn't screwed with it at all. Darryl gothis feelings hurt because either I disagreed with the validity of his idea,or because of the comment I made about removing the power fibers from acanerod (not sure which one yanked his chain, but obviously one of them did),and my goal was definitely not to hurt his feelings, rather was to showhimand anyone else on the list what I found out using a somewhat scientificapproach to "paper testing" his idea. If he hadn't been so overly sensitiveand so obviously offended that someone might challenge his idea, then hecould have written "Bob, do you mind telling me more about what you did?Howlong was the piece you measured? What kind of scales did you use? Do youthink there is a different way of doing this?" Instead, he chose to fireback at me in a tone that was obviously smarta$$, not only to me but toeveryone else on the list.I still say, however, that if he tries this and it works, I'll be thefirst one in line to say "Darryl, I was WRONG!!!", but still think, even onthe long chance that it does work, it is still going to be an ugly joint...Another concern I had about it was the tapered joint... a taper fit isgreat for compression or for rational strength... no good at all for theshear stresses and strains caused by casting. Again, NO test here, but canjust picture two false casts, and then the tip going out into the current. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Ferrule Material Bob - With a similar no-flame disclaimer......my Dad is also an engineer and Ilove him very much. But one of the things I've learned about engineers isthat in the absence of empirical testing they can come up with a veryniceexplanation, complete with math, for whatever seems likely to them. Theelegance and plausibility of the explanation has little relationship to itscorrectness. Sometimes engineers even prefer their reasoning to reality.Inresponse to this my father coined one of my favorite expressions. Whenhewould be out on the testing range in New Mexico or somewhere like that(hewas in aerospace) and something went wrong and the engineers couldn'tunderstand it, they often called it a random failure. The next timesomething worked, my father would say it didn't mean a damn thing, andwhenthey asked why he'd explain it was just a random success. So my conclusion is.....don't be so sure until it is tested in the realworld. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Sent: 3/10/00 10:54 AMSubject: Re: Ferrule Material Darrell,Before you read this, understand that I am not trying to beat you todeath with numbers, but being an engineer by nature, I look at thingsfrommechanical advantage/disadvantage points when I hear of a new idea orinnovation... so don't take this wrong, but I did a little tinkeringaroundlast nite in the shop just to see what making the kind of tip over buttjoint you suggest would involve. Now, read it with a smile, and don'ttakeanything as a flame here, it is just my point of view backed by a littlemeasuring, weighing and calculating.I understand your point about wanting to see if something can bedonethat hasn't, and to a certain extent, I understand wanting to try thingsnew, and that many of traditionalist (and I guess I am one to a certainextent) don't want to hear about anything new being tried. My point is,that ferrules are cheap, and making a ferrule on a lathe is morecost/timeeffective than trying to make a tapered fit bamboo "joint" on a rod.Yourpoint did get me curious, and I tried to set down and do a little numbercrunching, and I think if you will do the same, you can see that thecastingcharacteristics of a rod with a tapered bamboo joint/ferrule would bemuchmore affected than you think it would. The taper would have to bedrastically altered, especially in the first 10 inches aft of the joint.Ithink your wieght concerns over the nickel silver ferrules would beinsignificant. The amount of cane that would have to be added wouldweighmore than a set of ferrules with walls 0.0175" thick (typical of a SuperZtype ferrule). Considering the stress, shear and strain values of bamboocompared to that of 18% nickel silver, the bamboo would have to be about8.5times as thick to have the same effective strength as the Nickel silverferrules... that would make a typical joint have to be almost .30"largerthan a traditional NS ferrule joint, plus, since you have to taper up tothis joint, then, even if you do it very rapidly, lets say you have a2.5"area over which the "swell" is developed then allow an inch for thetaperedfit on the butt end of it, then you have added a piece of bamboo thatweighs6.4 grams... an 11/64ths Super Z type ferrule weighs 5.0 grams (notguessingat these, weighed on my triple beam scales, both ferrules and bamboo...andI did take a piece of scrap end cut from a blank, basically straightsandedon my belt sander, from a 1/2d inch section down to a .250d over theareawhere the swell would have to put when planed or milled in, drilled theendof the scrap with a 1/8" bit and used a violin peg reamer to ream out atapered hole in the end for a butt section to go into... didn't takelong, Ihave plenty of scrap! LOL) so you are, actually not removing weight bygetting rid of the NS ferrule, but adding weight. Note that the actualdimensions of my little test piece is about .050" smaller than whatwould berequired to have the same strength as a NS ferrule, so the weight wouldprobably be an couple of tenths of a gram more. This much differencewoulddefinitely require more "meat" in the butt section which adds moreweight tothe overall rod. Pretty much, it would be like putting the weight of a17/64ths superZ ferrule on a 4 weight rod. That is a lot of difference.And again, I must reiterate aesthetics. You have a rod with a tipsectionthat would be, normally, relatively small at it's thickest point, letssay.162 on my 6' 2wt, at its largest point, that now has a swell in itthat, inorder to be strong and reliable, that would now have to be swelled up to.462... That is a half inch lump in the middle of an otherwisesteamlineddelicate rod... that normally weighs 48.5 grams (just finished one so itwasconvenient to weigh the 2 wt) or 1.7 ounces, that now has at least 1.4gramsmore at the ferrule location(the bamboo of the butt has to fill thetaperedhole, so that would add another 2 grams to the joint) and (justestimatinghere) probably another 4 grams added overall in the butt section to addthematerial necessary to make up for the heavier ferrule, adding a total ofatleast 5.4 grams to the overall weight of the rod, making it over .2ouncesheavier than a NS ferruled rod.As far as the power fiber issue, I do have to disagree on that. Ihavebuilt over 200 rods to day, and restored God knows how many. I triedthisconcept of removing outer material from a rod to change its castingcharacteristics on older 9 footers in making them into 6 footers forotherpeople, and my experience is that the rods cast like shit when you starttaking off very much of the outer layers. The inner layer of cane ispithand has no grain... that is all the power fibers are is the grain of thegrass, and without those, the grass (cane) loses a lot of thecharacteristics that make it what it is...You have done a lot of things and posted them on this list that areveryinteresting, very good, very innovative, and I appreciate that, but Ifailto see where there would be any advantage to an innovation that wouldmake arod bulkier and heavier for the sake of saving the cost of a set offerrules.One final note, if you are going try this, I would like to suggestthatyou contact a Luthiers supply house and get a violin peg shave (like averyaccurate pencil sharpener) and a tapered reamer built for violin pegs.Thiswould give you as perfect a fit as possible on your tapered joint. Ihave aset, and if I remember right, they only cost about 30 each and I thinkInternational Violin Supply (you can find them somewhere on the net)carriesthem. OK, Now I have a brain cramp and need more coffee! *S* Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Thursday, March 09, 2000 9:40 AMSubject: Re: Ferrule Material I think you have the wrong idea about my experimentsin rod building. It isn't to make a rod to sell for$1000.00. Mostly it is to see if it can be done.People making cane rods are so tradition bound, andeveryone is so afraid to do something different becauseit might not be accepted by other cane rod people thatnothing innovative ever gets tried. Swelling the butt end of a tip section can't bedone over short enoughof a physical area to NOT have a noticable effect thestress curve and theway the rod casts. Even if this does have a noticeable effect on the stresscurve, well then, adjust the taper to compensate! Well, now you have to turndown the tip end of the butt section to go inside it, so unless younearlydouble the dimension of the butt end of the tip, then you are goingtohaveto turn the majority of the power fibers off of the end of the buttsectionto get it to fit inside the tip... As I have said before - "power fibers" at least whatmost people call "power fibers" (the layer of tinyfibers right under the enamel) are highly overrated.I have made rods where I planed away all the "powerfibers" and the rod casts fine. It is not a softnoodle, it does not break at the touch of a feather,it casts and fishes just fine. And no, the taper isn't massive to compensate for theadded weight. Remember we are getting rid of the weightof the metal ferrule, and even more bamboo for the swelled sectiondoesn'tweigh as much as the metal. Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Sat Mar 11 17:41:56 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:38:45 -0600 Subject: correction to post boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF8B80.EA10AF60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF8B80.EA10AF60 on the last post I made great for compression or for rational strengthshould have beengreat for compression or for rotational strength Bob ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF8B80.EA10AF60 on the last post I made compression or for rational strength should have been strength Bob ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF8B80.EA10AF60-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Mar 11 20:52:16 2000 Subject: John Bokstrom's splitting technique Hey gang,I just finished splitting for another rod, this time using John Bokstrom'stechnique and if you haven't tried it, you should! I've split a couple ofdifferent ways, and this method yielded the greatest number of strips andthe easiest splitting I've yet done ( not that I'm Mr. Experience by anymeans).Being that this next rod is to be another blond rod, and having had muchohassls the last time I split for a blond rod, I tried something different.This time prior to splitting I heated the culm sections to 250 degrees for10 minutes to drive off some of the moisture, then started splitting. Iused this temp because I figured that it would be low enough not to impartmuch, if any, color change, yet be high enough to drive off some of theinternal moisture, thus better splitting. It seemed to work out the way Ihad hoped, and using John's method, I've had an enjoyable splittingsession.Now, if someone would send me John's email address, I would like tocontacthim privately.Thanks guys, Mike from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Mar 11 20:58:32 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:58:27 Subject: Guide placement I spent a good part of this evening trying to work out a good guideplacement scheme for my F.E. Thomas 6'8" 3 wt taper. The closest ready-madeguide placement I could find was in Garrison's book, for his 6'9" taper.There were two things I didn't like about this placement, however. Thestripping guide was only 22 3/4 inches from the butt a bit close I feel.Also, Garrison uses 9 guides for this this fairly short rod. Jack Howellhas a chart for a 6'6" guide placement in his book that uses one less guideand places the ferrule guide on the tip section rather than the butt.Pretty neat idea but I still needed to do some adjustments for my slightlylonger taper. I then remembered Wayne's Guide program that came on the Hexrod disk.Whata great tool!! Using Wayne's program, I quickly came up with a guideplacement which looks pretty good. Since this rod is quite popular, here isthe guide placement I came up with. Perhaps this will save someone a fewhours work. tip top5 1/810 13/1617233038 1/2 (just above ferrule) 46 5/855 5/16 (stripping guide 24 7/16 from butt) If anyone knows the actual guide placement on this rod, I'd love to knowit. Thanks, Wayne, for a really useful tool. Richard from stpete@netten.net Sat Mar 11 21:27:20 2000 Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:32:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Guide placement Thanks, Richard! I just split out strips for that taper this veryevening. Saved me some time and I appreciate it. Rick C. Richard Nantel wrote: I spent a good part of this evening trying to work out a good guideplacement scheme for my F.E. Thomas 6'8" 3 wt taper. The closest ready-madeguide placement I could find was in Garrison's book, for his 6'9" taper.There were two things I didn't like about this placement, however. Thestripping guide was only 22 3/4 inches from the butt a bit close I feel.Also, Garrison uses 9 guides for this this fairly short rod. Jack Howellhas a chart for a 6'6" guide placement in his book that uses one lessguideand places the ferrule guide on the tip section rather than the butt.Pretty neat idea but I still needed to do some adjustments for myslightlylonger taper. I then remembered Wayne's Guide program that came on the Hexrod disk.Whata great tool!! Using Wayne's program, I quickly came up with a guideplacement which looks pretty good. Since this rod is quite popular, hereisthe guide placement I came up with. Perhaps this will save someone afewhours work. tip top5 1/810 13/1617233038 1/2 (just above ferrule) 46 5/855 5/16 (stripping guide 24 7/16 from butt) If anyone knows the actual guide placement on this rod, I'd love to knowit. Thanks, Wayne, for a really useful tool. Richard from ldavis@coweblink.net Sat Mar 11 22:35:12 2000 COWEBLINK1(MailMax 3.064) with ESMTP id14877310 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:34:37-0700 MST Subject: Wayne's Guide Program I then remembered Wayne's Guide program that came on the Hexrod disk Is the program available anyplace else? Lowell DavisWinter Park Colorado from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 11 22:55:54 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:45:01 -0600 Subject: Re: John Bokstrom's splitting technique Can anyone send a copy of this technique, or where to find it ? I thought Irecalled saving it, but NOT ! Thanks, GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: John Bokstrom's splitting technique Hey gang,I just finished splitting for another rod, this time using John Bokstrom'stechnique and if you haven't tried it, you should! I've split a couple ofdifferent ways, and this method yielded the greatest number of stripsandthe easiest splitting I've yet done ( not that I'm Mr. Experience by anymeans).Being that this next rod is to be another blond rod, and having had muchohassls the last time I split for a blond rod, I tried something different.This time prior to splitting I heated the culm sections to 250 degreesfor10 minutes to drive off some of the moisture, then started splitting. Iused this temp because I figured that it would be low enough not toimpartmuch, if any, color change, yet be high enough to drive off some of theinternal moisture, thus better splitting. It seemed to work out the way Ihad hoped, and using John's method, I've had an enjoyable splittingsession.Now, if someone would send me John's email address, I would like tocontacthim privately.Thanks guys, Mike from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Mar 11 23:25:38 2000 Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:25:30 -0800 Subject: Re: John Bokstrom's splitting technique George, John's technique is on Frank Neunemann's (sp?) page. There's a link to it from Rodmakers.Harry nobler wrote: Can anyone send a copy of this technique, or where to find it ? I thought Irecalled saving it, but NOT ! --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from saweiss@flash.net Sat Mar 11 23:25:53 2000 Subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Hardy Banty Rods Per a message from Ray Gould:The Hardy A&F Banty 4'-4" x 2pc x 1 ounce rod:0 = 0,070, 5 = 0.088, 10 = 0.107, 15 = 0.0.119, 20 = 0.133, 25 = 0.146. 30= 0.175,35 = 0.182, 40 = 0.190, 45 = 0.205 (estimate under cork). These dimensions were taken on unvarnished cane. I would also like to see that. ThanksShawn Pineo paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com wrote: Can anyone on the list supply me with a taper for the Hardy 4'4" BantyRod they produced for the New York sporting goods store AbercrombieandFitch ?Any other details about this particular model would also beappreciated.Hardy's have one of these rods in there museum in Alnwick, England butall attempts to get an inspection of the rod or details released havebeen unsuccesful. Many thanks......Paul B from mrmac@tcimet.net Sun Mar 12 05:22:18 2000 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Varmor R10 OK, finally I got the "right stuff", the R10, from my not so localsupplier. Opened the can this morning in eager anticipation of it'swonders and was somewhat surprised to see that it was not clear, butrather, had a lot of suspended flakey sorta stuff and also what lookedlike a lot of "dust" type particulate matter floating all around in it. Help! Is this the normal appearance for R10, or do I have a bad quart? Thanks, once again, for your comments and help. mac from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 12 08:55:01 2000 Subject: Re: Varmor R10 Hi Ralph,I had the same experience on a recent order of R-10 and returned the cantothe supplier who then replaced it at no charge. The replacement was clearasis normal and works perfectly as it has for so many years.Ray---- - Original Message ----- Subject: Varmor R10 OK, finally I got the "right stuff", the R10, from my not so localsupplier. Opened the can this morning in eager anticipation of it'swonders and was somewhat surprised to see that it was not clear, butrather, had a lot of suspended flakey sorta stuff and also what lookedlike a lot of "dust" type particulate matter floating all around in it. Help! Is this the normal appearance for R10, or do I have a bad quart? Thanks, once again, for your comments and help. mac from stpete@netten.net Sun Mar 12 09:12:13 2000 Subject: [Fwd: BFR might make me eat some of my words] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------57C15214F0D This message never showed up on my e-mail, though I'm getting othersmessages. I'm sending it again. Sorry if it is a duplicate. Or ifMike has decided to delete this for breaking some rule regardingcommercialism. Rick --------------57C15214F0D Subject: BFR might make me eat some of my words Well, I received an e-mail from the BAMBOO FLY ROD today! It was quitepositive, but didn't let me in on the status of the magazine's viabilityor the possible ship dates. I have asked them to consider sending aninformative notice of such to this list. I don't know what constraintsthey feel that they have with such discussions in this or any otherforum, but I think that it would go a long way in restoring the faith oftheir customers in the magazine. Rick Crenshaw --------------57C15214F0D-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Mar 12 09:22:59 2000 0000 (204.186.33.105) Subject: Re: Varmor R10 Ray Gould wrote: Hi Ralph,I had the same experience on a recent order of R-10 and returned the cantothe supplier who then replaced it at no charge. The replacement wasclear asis normal and works perfectly as it has for so many years.Ray---- - Original Message -----From: Ralph MacKenzie Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 3:21 AMSubject: Varmor R10 OK, finally I got the "right stuff", the R10, from my not so localsupplier. Opened the can this morning in eager anticipation of it'swonders and was somewhat surprised to see that it was not clear, butrather, had a lot of suspended flakey sorta stuff and also what lookedlike a lot of "dust" type particulate matter floating all around in it. Help! Is this the normal appearance for R10, or do I have a bad quart? Thanks, once again, for your comments and help. mac I had the same problem. I bought 2 qts and one qt was clear and one hadthe problem you spoke of. Istrained the qt and had no problems. Marty from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 12 09:44:11 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:33:15 Subject: RE: BFR might make me eat some of my words Only list members can post to the list so perhaps ask BFR to send thenotice to you and you can then forward it to the list. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 7:50 PM Subject: BFR might make me eat some of my words Well, I received an e-mail from the BAMBOO FLY ROD today! Itwas quitepositive, but didn't let me in on the status of themagazine's viabilityor the possible ship dates. I have asked them to consider sending aninformative notice of such to this list. I don't know whatconstraintsthey feel that they have with such discussions in this or any otherforum, but I think that it would go a long way in restoringthe faith oftheir customers in the magazine. Rick Crenshaw from tlongair@home.com Sun Mar 12 13:33:14 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP 0800 Subject: heat treating Hi all,Thanks for your recipes for heat treating. Now I have a problem, my heat gun setup didn't work as well aspreviously and over 1 1/2 feet of the strips Max temperatures of 400degrees for 5 - 7 minutes was achieved. The cane over this area turned adarker colour. My problem is, this section doesn't plane as well as thelighter area and the shavings are crumbly and dry. The strips seem tobend in a U without breaking. Is there a way to determine if the stripsare overheated? Should I take a chance and finish the rod or cut mylosses and begin again? Thanks. Terry Longair from martinjensen@home.com Sun Mar 12 14:29:09 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:29:07 -0800 Subject: RE: heat treating I like a destructive test. A test to the death so to speak. Take a"over- heated" strip and an unheated strip from the same culm and bendthemuntil breaking. Do they both feel the same when they break? Don't have aspare spline? Are the splines long enough so that you can sacrifice a bitoff of one end? Start by breaking a bunch of the scrap strips that you(must) have. Breaking them is a really good way to feel the strength ofthebamboo and also so you get the "feel" of what you are working with.If the spline just snaps in half, then it is junk. If it is keep breaking itso that you will get the feel of bad vs. good.If it breaks like the unheated stuff, then go for it and build a rod. If itends up being crap (unlikely but it is possible) you haven't really wastedanything. You have just refined your overall rod building skills. Kind of awin win situation. Again, if it just breaks, I wouldn't bother building withit. I would use it for break testing. This is really important I think.IMHO from my experience, from what you have described, I'm betting thatyourbamboo is good. when you temper the bamboo, it will plane a little harderand as you have described. Remember, it is not as soft as it once was.Now if you just heat treated a section of 1.5 ft, well you are going to havesome interesting action there in addition to most likely a noticeable colordifference. All in all though, I wouldn't let just that one factor stop me from proceeding.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: heat treating Hi all,Thanks for your recipes for heat treating.Now I have a problem, my heat gun setup didn't work as well aspreviously and over 1 1/2 feet of the strips Max temperatures of 400degrees for 5 - 7 minutes was achieved. The cane over this area turned adarker colour. My problem is, this section doesn't plane as well as thelighter area and the shavings are crumbly and dry. The strips seem tobend in a U without breaking. Is there a way to determine if the stripsare overheated? Should I take a chance and finish the rod or cut mylosses and begin again? Thanks. Terry Longair from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Mar 12 15:09:54 2000 Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:55:28 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: heat treating RodmakersList On my second rod, I experinced tha same thing, forgot to turn the heatgundown when the oven was ready. Same result, the upper halv of the canewasmuch darker. I also had problem planning it, but took it as aplanningpractice, glued up the splines and tryed the U-bend test. The rodbroke in two, and I noticed a very strange feeling in the cane. It was justlike the fibres slided inside the rod, and the brake had long fibres justlike a brush. Just my experince for what its worth..... danny------>--------work From: "Martin Jensen" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:28:50 -0800 Subject: RE: heat treating I like a destructive test. A test to the death so to speak. Take a"over- heated" strip and an unheated strip from the same culm and bendthemuntil breaking. Do they both feel the same when they break? Don't have aspare spline? Are the splines long enough so that you can sacrifice a bitoff of one end? Start by breaking a bunch of the scrap strips that you(must) have. Breaking them is a really good way to feel the strength ofthebamboo and also so you get the "feel" of what you are working with.If the spline just snaps in half, then it is junk. If it is keep breaking itso that you will get the feel of bad vs. good.If it breaks like the unheated stuff, then go for it and build a rod. If itends up being crap (unlikely but it is possible) you haven't really wastedanything. You have just refined your overall rod building skills. Kind of awin win situation. Again, if it just breaks, I wouldn't bother buildingwithit. I would use it for break testing. This is really important I think.IMHO from my experience, from what you have described, I'm betting thatyourbamboo is good. when you temper the bamboo, it will plane a littleharderand as you have described. Remember, it is not as soft as it once was.Now if you just heat treated a section of 1.5 ft, well you are going tohavesome interesting action there in addition to most likely a noticeablecolordifference. All in all though, I wouldn't let just that one factor stop me from proceeding.Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 11:31 AM Subject: heat treating Hi all,Thanks for your recipes for heat treating.Now I have a problem, my heat gun setup didn't work as well aspreviously and over 1 1/2 feet of the strips Max temperatures of 400degrees for 5 - 7 minutes was achieved. The cane over this area turned adarker colour. My problem is, this section doesn't plane as well as thelighter area and the shavings are crumbly and dry. The strips seem tobend in a U without breaking. Is there a way to determine if the stripsare overheated? Should I take a chance and finish the rod or cut mylosses and begin again? Thanks. Terry Longair from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 12 15:43:12 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:42:33 placement My apologies. I made a couple of typos in the guide placements in myprevious e-mail. Here is the actual placement from Cattanach's Guideprogram for a 6'8" taper: tip top5 1/810 13/161723 5/830 13/1638 1/2 (just above ferrule) 46 5/855 5/16 (stripping guide 24 7/16 from butt) Richard-----Original Message----- Subject: Guide placement I spent a good part of this evening trying to work out a good guideplacement scheme for my F.E. Thomas 6'8" 3 wt taper. The closest ready-madeguide placement I could find was in Garrison's book, for his 6'9" taper.There were two things I didn't like about this placement, however. Thestripping guide was only 22 3/4 inches from the butt a bit close I feel.Also, Garrison uses 9 guides for this this fairly short rod. Jack Howellhas a chart for a 6'6" guide placement in his book that uses one less guideand places the ferrule guide on the tip section rather than the butt.Pretty neat idea but I still needed to do some adjustments for my slightlylonger taper. I then remembered Wayne's Guide program that came on the Hexrod disk.Whata great tool!! Using Wayne's program, I quickly came up with a guideplacement which looks pretty good. Since this rod is quite popular, here isthe guide placement I came up with. Perhaps this will save someone a fewhours work. tip top5 1/810 13/1617233038 1/2 (just above ferrule) 46 5/855 5/16 (stripping guide 24 7/16 from butt) If anyone knows the actual guide placement on this rod, I'd love to knowit. Thanks, Wayne, for a really useful tool. Richard from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 12 16:01:51 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Darkening chromed steel This may have been covered a while ago, but here goes. I have allblackened hardware for a particular rod, all except the tip top, thatis. I need a method for blackening hard chrome on the guide. Is thereanything aside from the pen trick? I did that and it doesn't look toobad (I'll use it if I have to), but I'm sure it's not as durable as achemical corrosion blackening process. Any ideas out there? TIA, Dennis from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Mar 12 16:57:02 2000 Subject: Re: Darkening chromed steel In a message dated 3/12/0 10:08:10 PM, HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.netwrites: from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Mar 12 16:59:16 2000 Subject: Re: Darkening chromed steel In a message dated 03/12/2000 5:08:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net writes: Dennis,There is nothing you can do chemically, todarken hard chrome. Believe me, I've tried them all. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 12 17:20:26 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP ;Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:19:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Darkening chromed steel Tom, You're absolutely right. I have a bottle of Dave LeClair's Payne sol'nand a bottle of Birchwood Casey's Brass Black and niether of themworked. After they both failed (I kind of expected them to) I had at itwith an old petri dish marker that I "borrowed" from my microbiologydays. It doesn't look all that bad. Next time I'll order more black tip tops. Live and learn... Dennis TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/12/0 10:08:10 PM, HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.netwrites: I am afraid you have a problem. I think you will find the chromeimperviousto any chemical treatment, and paint won't stick well to it either. I havehad good luck with the commercially available black chrome tip tops.They areeven a reasonable match for the old style snake guides. I would suggestyouorder some of them. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 12 17:21:41 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:21:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Darkening chromed steel The only way to even get epoxy to stick to chrome, is to etch it withmuratic acid. This acid will remove all the chrome, if left in it very long,but swabbing with it, using a Q-tip, just might work. A black chrome topwould be much better. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Darkening chromed steel In a message dated 3/12/0 10:08:10 PM, HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.netwrites: I am afraid you have a problem. I think you will find the chromeimperviousto any chemical treatment, and paint won't stick well to it either. I havehad good luck with the commercially available black chrome tip tops.Theyareeven a reasonable match for the old style snake guides. I would suggestyouorder some of them. from djfinch@sprintmail.com Mon Mar 13 08:22:33 2000 Subject: test delete now from dickay@alltel.net Mon Mar 13 10:34:10 2000 KAA09727 Subject: Test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF8CD6.BAE7B2E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF8CD6.BAE7B2E0 Am I on? It seems awfully quite! ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF8CD6.BAE7B2E0 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF8CD6.BAE7B2E0-- from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Mar 13 10:47:15 2000 Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:44:39 -0600 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) A while back someone posted about removing the binding thread from a Nyatex glued section and then rebinding the section. Wayne subsequently posted that he had tried it and it worked great. I saved those posts, took them home for my notebook and SHMBO tossed it outat some point (can't find it in the archives). So, I just tried this- glued up a butt section with Nyatex and pulled off the thread about 16 hours later and rebound it to be heat tempered later. The question is- Is this the best time to pull the thread or should I do it either earlier or later after gluing? The thread came off OK with a little resistance, I'm just not sure how the tip will respond to the same handling. Anyone know what the optimal way to approach this in the Nyatex glued section is?Thanks for any info.Jon McAnulty from yves@dancris.com Mon Mar 13 12:33:58 2000 [208.201.203.128] (may be forged)) Subject: Binding List: I recall reading a posting from Dave LeClair that mentioned bindingglued up rods without a binder. I believe that there was also somethingabout using an old Penn bait casting reel for tensioning. Has anyone gotsome tips about using this procedure - any "pitfalls"? Dave - do you stilldo it this way? Thanks, Dave LaT. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Mar 13 14:47:27 2000 Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:47:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: I'm just not sure how the tip will respond to the samehandling. Anyone know what the optimal way to approach this in theNyatex glued section is?Thanks for any info.Jon McAnulty Jon,I think Richard Tyree made the original post, and I may have followedup on it. If the times you tried worked, then stick with them. As soon as Ibind the blank, I wash it down with white vinegar. Doing so removes about80%of the excess glue. The next day (8-16 hours) I remove the originalbindingcord, and carefully wash down the bare blank with vinegar again. Thissecondwashing removes almost all the remaining excess glue. I then re- bind, andheatset the glue.I don't know that this is the "optimal way to approach this" as youwrote, but it is a good way. Be careful with the glued blank during thesecondwashing and binding, and you should be okay. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Mar 13 16:41:02 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Franken tools I have been planing to make a drying/drawing booth, to put a drawn polyfinish on my strips and dry them. I have several notebooks full of plansand three or four materials list. Today, inspired by the Franktool posts, I made one from cardboard,viscuine, duct tape, and a one foot square of luan paneling. It workslike a charm, is light as a feather and breaks down. All materials wereon hand. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Mar 13 16:52:35 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Chan Bamboo Report I received my shipment of bamboo from Cary Chan today. This will make the fourth source for some 24 sticks of bamboo that Ihave purchased. I mention this to give some background to my report;least some imagine I have much more experience. The ten culms are a golden brown color, and straight with no evidence ofscorching to straighten. Several culms have a few leaf node areas andthere is the normal scarring and water marks. No growers marks. The culms are between 1-7/8 inch to 2-1/2 inches, with most falling inthe two inch range. They have good heft and power fiber with no visiblesign of worm damage or mold. Of the ten culms only two had any randomsplitting, and it was minimal. Viewing the ten culms, laid out on a workbench, after putting the dryingsplit in them, brought a huge smile to my face. This compares favorablywith any cane I have bought and I wouldn't mind having the rafters fullof it. Still looking for that exceptional, flawless culm. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 13 17:47:53 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP ;Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:47:20 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) Jon, I glue with Epon. After the glue is set (~24 hours) I just pull thestring off. It comes off in a single strand. Then I sand the glueresidue off with a sanding block loaded with 220 grit wet/dry paper. Iwould suggest sanding the string and excess glue off with the block ifyou can't just pull it off. Dennis mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: A while back someone posted about removing the binding thread fromaNyatex glued section and then rebinding the section. Waynesubsequently posted that he had tried it and it worked great. I savedthose posts, took them home for my notebook and SHMBO tossed it outatsome point (can't find it in the archives). So, I just tried this-glued up a butt section with Nyatex and pulled off the thread about 16hours later and rebound it to be heat tempered later. The question is-Is this the best time to pull the thread or should I do it eitherearlier or later after gluing? The thread came off OK with a littleresistance, I'm just not sure how the tip will respond to the samehandling. Anyone know what the optimal way to approach this in theNyatex glued section is?Thanks for any info.Jon McAnulty from lblove@cableone.net Mon Mar 13 19:23:35 2000 Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:22:51 -0700 Subject: 4' 4" banty rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF8D21.158D9260" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF8D21.158D9260 Should I put a #8 stripping guide on a 4'4" 4 wt. rod(which should =throw 5 wt. do to .003 oversize) on this rod, or should I use a large =snake guide as the Hardy Banty's had? This is not a rod of beauty as =this is my first rod that will be finished and will more than likely be =used for "perch jerkin" over the next few months. Also would a 5" long =handle be about right? Any smaller and my hand will not fit on the =grip. Brad ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF8D21.158D9260 Hello guy, guide = 4 wt. rod(which should throw 5 wt. do to .003 oversize) on this rod, or = beauty as this is my first rod that will be finished and will more than = grip. TIA Brad ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF8D21.158D9260-- from dickay@alltel.net Mon Mar 13 19:26:37 2000 TAA11863; Subject: Re: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) Jon, Are these the posts that you are talking about. from Jerry Foster 1/26/98 4:42 PM Tom, I think several of us are using Nyatex, but the issue can get awfullypolitical if it wasn't specifically tested.. by the way, I've found that ifI re-roll (?) the glued blanks on fresh paper about and hr. or so aftergluing, I can unwrap the binding thread 24/4 at the 16 hr mark whout muchproblem, makes sanding a little easier, don't have to file.RegardsJerry from Wayne Cattanach 1/26/98 5:14 PM Tom - Yes there are many makers using Nyatex glue - If you missed itthereis now a method of rebinding the glued strips at 16-24 hour air drying(temperature dependant) - before thermo steeing - this allows the threadbeing removed after heat curing and solves the need to file or sand thethread off. Hope that this helps. I save some of these for future reference too. Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message ----- Subject: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) A while back someone posted about removing the binding thread fromaNyatex glued section and then rebinding the section. Waynesubsequently posted that he had tried it and it worked great. I savedthose posts, took them home for my notebook and SHMBO tossed it outatsome point (can't find it in the archives). So, I just tried this-glued up a butt section with Nyatex and pulled off the thread about16hours later and rebound it to be heat tempered later. The questionis-Is this the best time to pull the thread or should I do it eitherearlier or later after gluing? The thread came off OK with a littleresistance, I'm just not sure how the tip will respond to the samehandling. Anyone know what the optimal way to approach this in theNyatex glued section is?Thanks for any info.Jon McAnulty from tonkin@xtn.net Mon Mar 13 19:32:37 2000 Subject: Watauga River Tragedy Please excuse the non rod message here but, I thought as fisherman,y'all might want to know about this recent tragedy that has befallen theWatauga River here in East Tennessee.On Feb. 25th a fire at the North American Rayon Plant in Elizabethton,TN has allegedly contributed to a massive fishkill on the greattailwater known as the Watuga River! It is estimated that 34,000 troutwere killed as a result of the fire. A Tennessee Wildlife ResourcesAgency trout biologist as stated that "The Watauga River below the NARplant is somewhere between completely dead and almost dead."It is tragic that such a great river has been delivered such a knock outpunch!-- --- --------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Mar 13 22:49:40 2000 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP idXAA28958 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:49:37 Subject: Re: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) The History -well I suspect that I am the one that can take the blame for the Nyatexglue - I saw it originally used to glue the flocking in the window rails forthe auto industry - My good friend used it in his plastic plant. the processis a continuous run situation - from the plastics extruder the warmplasticis sprayed on the track and then the flocking is applied and stood on endwith a High voltage DC field and then the glue is dried in a 75 foot lighttunnel that is about 325 degrees. The glue will stay uncured for an 8 hourshift in the mixing pot but is complete dried at the end of the lighttunnel. I thought it would be worth a try for rods - that was some 15yearsago.The down fall of using the glue is that you must think throw away withevery thing it comes in comtact with - or most everything - and for yearsIwould leave the original binding thread in place when the glue was heatset.Believe me it was not a fun job filing the thread from delicate tipsections. Then a couple of years ago Al Medved hinted that he didn't havethat problem - and when I quizzed him further - he said he was completelyremoving the binding thread before the thermal setting. But he allowed afull 24 hours of air drying before he thermal set the rod.Well - I gave it a try during a rod making clas one time - but onlyallowed the rod section to air dry for 12 hours before removing thebindingthread - NOT a pretty story - so a compromise was devised - at the end of16hours air the original binding thread was removed and fresh threadapplied.After the sections were heat treated the fresh thread zipped right off andsurface cleaning was a snap copmpared to before - So if there is thanks tobe handed out here - it should go to Al -And another little trick which isn't directly related but close is theuse of a Bic lighter to retouch flamed areas that get too light. The flameof the lighter isn't used to reflame the surface - but instead the flamed isdampened with the rod section to cause it to deposit soot on the surfacewhich can be spread with the fing to blend it into the tone that is desired.To cause the flame to damped - place the surface of the rod section intotheflame about half way up the flame - it will stop the plune effect of theflame from drawing oxygen for combustion and leaves a sooty deposit. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Mar 13 23:16:25 2000 Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:16:18 -0800 Subject: Re: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) Thanks Wayne. I guess I didn't remember who first mentionedremovingthe string then rebinding before heat setting. I should have suspected you. Harry Wayne Cattanach wrote: The History -well I suspect that I am the one that can take the blame for theNyatexglue - I saw it originally used to glue the flocking in the window railsforthe auto industry - My good friend used it in his plastic plant. theprocessis a continuous run situation - from the plastics extruder the warmplasticis sprayed on the track and then the flocking is applied and stood on endwith a High voltage DC field and then the glue is dried in a 75 foot lighttunnel that is about 325 degrees. The glue will stay uncured for an 8hourshift in the mixing pot but is complete dried at the end of the lighttunnel. I thought it would be worth a try for rods - that was some 15yearsago.The down fall of using the glue is that you must think throw awaywithevery thing it comes in comtact with - or most everything - and foryears Iwould leave the original binding thread in place when the glue was heatset.Believe me it was not a fun job filing the thread from delicate tipsections. Then a couple of years ago Al Medved hinted that he didn't havethat problem - and when I quizzed him further - he said he wascompletelyremoving the binding thread before the thermal setting. But he allowed afull 24 hours of air drying before he thermal set the rod.Well - I gave it a try during a rod making clas one time - but onlyallowed the rod section to air dry for 12 hours before removing thebindingthread - NOT a pretty story - so a compromise was devised - at the endof 16hours air the original binding thread was removed and fresh threadapplied.After the sections were heat treated the fresh thread zipped right offandsurface cleaning was a snap copmpared to before - So if there is thankstobe handed out here - it should go to Al -And another little trick which isn't directly related but close is theuse of a Bic lighter to retouch flamed areas that get too light. The flameof the lighter isn't used to reflame the surface - but instead the flamedisdampened with the rod section to cause it to deposit soot on the surfacewhich can be spread with the fing to blend it into the tone that isdesired.To cause the flame to damped - place the surface of the rod section intotheflame about half way up the flame - it will stop the plune effect of theflame from drawing oxygen for combustion and leaves a sooty deposit. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Mar 14 05:14:21 2000 0000 (204.186.33.18) Subject: Re: 4' 4" banty rod Bradley Love wrote: Hello guy,Should I put a #8 stripping guide on a 4'4" 4 wt. rod(which shouldthrow 5 wt. do to .003 oversize) on this rod, or should I use a largesnake guide as the Hardy Banty's had? This is not a rod of beauty asthis is my first rod that will be finished and will more than likelybe used for "perch jerkin" over the next few months. Also would a 5"long handle be about right? Any smaller and my hand will not fit onthe grip. TIABradIf it will throw a #5 I would put a #8 stripper preferrably carbide ora chrome plated casting guide. Also I believe the old attage "little rodlittle grip". 41/2" grip will look much better than a 5". It may feelsmall at first but you will get used to it. I have some old orvis rodsthat have 4" grips. Marty from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Mar 14 05:57:51 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:56:06 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:57:28 +0100 Subject: Unwanted moisture To all.... I have a un varnished blank, that have been in my workshop for a coupleof months.Today I had a look at it, and when I bend the rod, its staying bend`ed.Is this because the bamboo has taken moisture from the environment? Is it possible to put it in the heater again, and get rid of theunwanted moisture? The rod has been glued with PU, it can take about100*C without any problem. Or is the rod only suitable for a blackboardpointer....... TIAdanny from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Mar 14 07:20:52 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:16:57 Subject: RE: Unwanted moisture If I recall, in recent discussions about finishing rods, a few list memberscame to the conclusion that the type of finish or whether the rod isfinished at all doesn't make any difference to its ability to excludemoisture. And yet we continue to hear stories such as this one, where thecane has obviously become full of humidity. How do we explain this? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:06 AM Subject: Unwanted moisture To all.... I have a un varnished blank, that have been in my workshop of months.Today I had a look at it, and when I bend the rod, itsstaying bend`ed.Is this because the bamboo has taken moisture from the environment? Is it possible to put it in the heater again, and get rid of theunwanted moisture? The rod has been glued with PU, it can take about100*C without any problem. Or is the rod only suitable for ablackboardpointer....... TIAdanny from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Mar 14 07:39:51 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:38:19 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:39:44 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture No question about it, this got to affect the cane. The blank had crisp actionwhen i put it away.My workshop is constant heated to 20-24*C, its in my basement though,but itsdry like the rest of my house. regardsdanny Richard Nantel wrote: If I recall, in recent discussions about finishing rods, a few listmemberscame to the conclusion that the type of finish or whether the rod isfinished at all doesn't make any difference to its ability to excludemoisture. And yet we continue to hear stories such as this one, wherethecane has obviously become full of humidity. How do we explain this? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:06 AM Subject: Unwanted moisture To all.... I have a un varnished blank, that have been in my workshop of months.Today I had a look at it, and when I bend the rod, itsstaying bend`ed.Is this because the bamboo has taken moisture from the environment? Is it possible to put it in the heater again, and get rid of theunwanted moisture? The rod has been glued with PU, it can take about100*C without any problem. Or is the rod only suitable for ablackboardpointer....... TIAdanny from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Mar 14 07:51:12 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:41:00 Subject: RE: Unwanted moisture rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Frankly, Danny, I suspect finish matters a lot which is why I nowimpregnate my rods. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture No question about it, this got to affect the cane. The blankhad crisp actionwhen i put it away.My workshop is constant heated to 20-24*C, its in my basementthough, but itsdry like the rest of my house. regardsdanny Richard Nantel wrote: If I recall, in recent discussions about finishing rods, afew list memberscame to the conclusion that the type of finish or whether the rod isfinished at all doesn't make any difference to its abilityto excludemoisture. And yet we continue to hear stories such as thisone, where thecane has obviously become full of humidity. How do we explain this? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TwangSent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:06 AM Subject: Unwanted moisture To all.... I have a un varnished blank, that have been in my workshop of months.Today I had a look at it, and when I bend the rod, itsstaying bend`ed.Is this because the bamboo has taken moisture from theenvironment? Is it possible to put it in the heater again, and get rid of theunwanted moisture? The rod has been glued with PU, it cantake about100*C without any problem. Or is the rod only suitable for ablackboardpointer....... TIAdanny from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Mar 14 08:18:26 2000 Subject: Explaination of stress curves wanted boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF8D95.C2B8D5C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF8D95.C2B8D5C0 Guys,Does anyone know of a site where I could read a good explaination of =stress curves that is written for the non-engineer? Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF8D95.C2B8D5C0 Guys,Does anyone know of a site where I = non-engineer? Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF8D95.C2B8D5C0-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Mar 14 08:20:38 2000 Subject: Re: RE: Unwanted moisture rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 3/14/0 1:26:09 PM, richard.nantel@videotron.cawrites: Richard - I think you may have misunderstood what people were saying. No finish on a rod would be a disaster. It would allow the cane to easily exchange moisture with the air, and in the typical temperate zone climate where most of us live, you would have a big humidity spike in the summer,and a drying effect in the heated indoor air of winter. No finish will stop the moisture exchange, but any reasonable one will slow the process enough to eliminate the seasonal spikes and give you a moisture content reasonably close to the average for your climate. The good news for Danny is that moisture is not fatal, and if he puts the rod in a drying cabinet, he is back in business. I suspect his basement is the culprit. My own rods are always stored in a heated space in winter, and air conditioned in summer.To give you an idea of how much moisture can be reabsorbed and thendriven off, I once straightened flamed strips by the Bokstrom soaking method.The strips became so pliable, I believe I could have tied them in a knot. Amonth later I glued up the rod, never having done anything special to dry the strips. The rod is an ultra crisp caster, that has never taken a set.Another thought for Danny. If your basement is indeed dry, you may nothave enough heat treatment into the strips. If that is the case, even areasonable moisture content may be enough to allow the rod to take a set. I wouldstill build the rod. A couple of my early rods are probably in that category, but still fish well from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Mar 14 08:37:43 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:36:01 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:37:18 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture Tom, The cane was heat treated to a medium brown color, airflow oven 180*C minutes, and the flamed to get the dark brown stripes. So I think it wastreatedall right, but maybe the environment is more humid than I want to think...... danny TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/14/0 1:26:09 PM, richard.nantel@videotron.cawrites: Richard - I think you may have misunderstood what people were saying.Nofinish on a rod would be a disaster. It would allow the cane to easilyexchange moisture with the air, and in the typical temperate zoneclimatewhere most of us live, you would have a big humidity spike in thesummer, anda drying effect in the heated indoor air of winter. No finish will stop themoisture exchange, but any reasonable one will slow the process enoughtoeliminate the seasonal spikes and give you a moisture contentreasonablyclose to the average for your climate. The good news for Danny is thatmoisture is not fatal, and if he puts the rod in a drying cabinet, he isbackin business. I suspect his basement is the culprit. My own rods arealwaysstored in a heated space in winter, and air conditioned in summer.To give you an idea of how much moisture can be reabsorbed and thendrivenoff, I once straightened flamed strips by the Bokstrom soaking method.Thestrips became so pliable, I believe I could have tied them in a knot. Amonthlater I glued up the rod, never having done anything special to dry thestrips. The rod is an ultra crisp caster, that has never taken a set.Another thought for Danny. If your basement is indeed dry, you may nothaveenough heat treatment into the strips. If that is the case, even areasonablemoisture content may be enough to allow the rod to take a set. I wouldstillbuild the rod. A couple of my early rods are probably in that category, butstill fish well from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Mar 14 09:07:05 2000 "'danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no '","'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Unwanted moisture Richard -- How do you know the problem is just moisture? If that were the case,everyrod with tung oil finish (I'd say all rods, but I think most agree that thiswould be true for tung-oiled rods) should exhibit the same behavior inmoistenvironments -- which they do not. Neither do all unvarnished blanks thatsit around a while, even in rainy weather here in Missouri -- I can attestto that. Moisture might be a factor (for example, if the rod is notadequately heat treated) but there are obviously other factors andwaterproof varnish is apparently not a decisive one. I'm not saying I KNOWthe explanation -- but not knowing is where we're at. It's better to realizethat than to hold onto explanations that clearly don't explain what we see. I guess I should mention why I care about this. It think it's excellent todo something because it's traditional and feels/looks right -- and thatshould be enough. But when a technical explanation is added to apreferenceof that sort, the implication is that those failing to use the advocatedmethod are poorer craftspeople. On technical (rather than aesthetic orhistoric) matters I feel it's better to be clear about what we know andwhatwe don't. There's a lot we don't. Thanks for the therapy, I feel better now.... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Unwanted moisture If I recall, in recent discussions about finishing rods, a few listmemberscame to the conclusion that the type of finish or whether the rod isfinished at all doesn't make any difference to its ability to excludemoisture. And yet we continue to hear stories such as this one, wherethecane has obviously become full of humidity. How do we explain this? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:06 AM Subject: Unwanted moisture To all.... I have a un varnished blank, that have been in my workshop of months.Today I had a look at it, and when I bend the rod, itsstaying bend`ed.Is this because the bamboo has taken moisture from the environment? Is it possible to put it in the heater again, and get rid of theunwanted moisture? The rod has been glued with PU, it can take about100*C without any problem. Or is the rod only suitable for ablackboardpointer....... TIAdanny from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Mar 14 09:07:18 2000 Subject: Re: Re: Unwanted moisture Danny, I had this problem with my third rod, I believe anyway. I was using URAC glue. I just stripped the varnish and reheated at 375F. I had no problemwith glue failure.TOM from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 14 09:23:52 2000 Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:23:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Explaination of stress curves wanted boundary="------------B389A82789117DC6C59D5A32" --------------B389A82789117DC6C59D5A32 michael wrote: Guys,Does anyone know of a site where I could read a good explainationof stress curves that is written for the non-engineer? Thanks, Mike,The following explanation was written by Darryl Hayashida and postedto the list a few years ago. It has helped me and many others. I'msure Darryl won't mind me re-posting it to the list. Harry----------------In it's most basic use a stress curve shows you how closea split cane rod is to breaking with the weight and lengthof line you specified. Garrison believed 200,000 ouncesper square inch was a good, safe upper level. In realityyou can go up to 220,000 or 230,000 without any problems.Garrison himself went up to 220,000 on his lighter rods.Garrison believed that below the 140,000 point the bamboostopped flexing. As you get deeper into stress curves you can begin to pick out certaincharacteristics that tell you what kind of action the rod has, or willhaveif it hasn't been made yet. A Garrison rod, which I consider to be slow, has a well rounded "hump" near the tip and a fairly slow drop off as itgoes towards the handle. Let's see if I can do this with ASCII art. || * *| * * *| * * *| * * *| * **| *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The rod that I'm always raving about, the Cattanach 7' 0"4 wt, I consider to be fairly fast. It has a stress curve like this: || *| * *| * *| * *| * *| * * *| * * * *** *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The blip near the handle is the Cattanach hinge, and it greatlyenhances roll casting. Don't forget to put it in. I did and the rodI made was a terrible roll caster. It isn't as necessary on longerrods, but on shorter rods it's definitely needed. A Paul Young Para 15, what is described as a parabolic actionlooks like this: || * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ Looking at this rod, and never having cast one, I would guessthat it would feel fairly slow, due to the enhanced bending nearthe handle, but able to throw a lot of line, due to the stiff midsection. I would also guess that it could roll cast really well. There are as many variations of stress curves as there arerodmakers. This covers the slow, fast and parabolic actions. Sir Darryl --------------B389A82789117DC6C59D5A32 michael wrote:Guys,Doesanyone know of a site where I could read a good explaination of stress Mike, list.Harry----------------In it's most basic use a stress curve shows you how closea split cane rod is to breaking with the weight and lengthof line you specified. Garrison believed 200,000 ouncesper square inch was a good, safe upper level. In realityyou can go up to 220,000 or 230,000 without any problems.Garrison himself went up to 220,000 on his lighter rods.Garrison believed that below the 140,000 point the bamboostopped flexing.As you get deeper into stress curves you can beginto pick out certaincharacteristics that tell you what kind of action the rod has, or willhaveif it hasn't been made yet. A Garrison rod, which I consider to beslow,has a well rounded "hump" near the tip and a fairly slow drop off asitgoes towards the handle. Let's see if I can do this with ASCII art.| * _*______________________________________________ The rod that I'm always raving about, the Cattanach 7' 0"4 wt, I consider to be fairly fast. It has a stress curve like this:| * * * * * * * _*______________________________________________ The blip near the handle is the Cattanach hinge, and it greatly rodI made was a terrible roll caster. It isn't as necessary on longerrods, but on shorter rods it's definitely needed.A Paul Young Para 15, what is described as a parabolic actionlooks like this:| * * * _*______________________________________________ Looking at this rod, and never having cast one, I would guessthat it would feel fairly slow, due to the enhanced bending nearthe handle, but able to throw a lot of line, due to the stiff midsection. I would also guess that it could roll cast really well.There are as many variations of stress curves as there arerodmakers. This covers the slow, fast and parabolic actions.Sir Darryl --------------B389A82789117DC6C59D5A32-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 14 09:41:54 2000 Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:41:48 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Addditional Alaska Trip information Friends,A few weeks ago I asked for advice on an Alaska trip this summer.Several of you, notably Jim McGrath and Dave Barron and others, were ofmuch help. Our plans have firmed up, and I need a little more specifichelp.We arrive in Anchorage on July 3, and fly out the next day for 4days of fishing on the Talachulitna River. There we expect to catchKings, Rainbows, and Grayling. We return to Anchorage on July 7, wherewe pick up the third member of our party.We have rented an RV for the next seven days and plan to makeour way down the Kenai Peninsula. That's where I need some advice.What fishing should we be sure to include in the Kenai leg of our trip?We think we would like to catch fish other than Kings on this part ofthe trip? What towns should we visit? Which River(s)? should we fish?Are there areas that are closed to specific types of fishing during thattime? What species can we look for? Should we hire guides, and if so,would you make recommendations? Are there specific campgrounds weshould stay in or avoid? And the list of questions goes on an on.To those of you on the Rodmakers list, I apologize for the non-rodmaking specific tenor of this post. Having the collective wisdom ofthese lists available is priceless. Thanks in advance for all yourhelp. Harry Boyd --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Mar 14 10:44:29 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Georg__Maurer=B4s_e-mail_address?= Anyone have an e-mail address for Georg Maurer?Please respond off-line George, if You are there, please write me. Carsten Jorgensen cmj@post11.tele.dk from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Mar 14 11:08:15 2000 Subject: Fwd: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) boundary="part1_6e.1531f4d.25ffcbdc_boundary" --part1_6e.1531f4d.25ffcbdc_boundary In a message dated 3/13/00 2:48:34 PM Central Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Harry: Nope, wasn't me. As far as I knew, Wayne originated the idea. Those Nyatex fumes getting to you? :>) Best, Richard --part1_6e.1531f4d.25ffcbdc_boundary 15:48:34 -0500 rly-za05.mx.aol.com (v69.17) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:48:14-0500 Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:47:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: I'm just not sure how the tip will respond to the samehandling. Anyone know what the optimal way to approach this in theNyatex glued section is?Thanks for any info.Jon McAnulty Jon,I think Richard Tyree made the original post, and I may have followedup on it. If the times you tried worked, then stick with them. As soon as Ibind the blank, I wash it down with white vinegar. Doing so removes about80%of the excess glue. The next day (8-16 hours) I remove the originalbindingcord, and carefully wash down the bare blank with vinegar again. Thissecondwashing removes almost all the remaining excess glue. I then re- bind, andheatset the glue.I don't know that this is the "optimal way to approach this" as youwrote, but it is a good way. Be careful with the glued blank during thesecondwashing and binding, and you should be okay. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --part1_6e.1531f4d.25ffcbdc_boundary-- from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Tue Mar 14 11:38:21 2000 Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:35:50 -0600 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Sean Maran's splitting method --simple boundary A while back Richard Nantel posted a method of splitting that Sean Maranhad showed him. Well, I finally used up the shards, splinters, wedges andwhatnot that were the result of my first splitting attempts and needed to split anew culm. I used Sean's technique and the results were an incredibleimprovement over using the knife freehand. After perfectly splitting the first quarterculm marks on every node at 0.20 inch intervals around the circumference of the culm(tip section culm). I was able to hit almost every pencil mark dead-on with the advancing split. It was like shooting targets. In some pieces as I split Iendedup with 3 strips so I could not split it in half as described. However, itwas easy if I held the thicker strip with my other fingers and extended theindex finger further down on the thick strip to gain some leverage. This allowedme tobend both strips (the thick and thin one) to the same amount of deflectioneven though the thick strip was much stiffer and still drive the split to eithersideas needed.Anyway, I thought I'd post this experience and say thanks, splitting is no longer the stuff of nightmares for me. ;-)Jon --simple boundary 15:48:34 -0500 rly-za05.mx.aol.com (v69.17) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:48:14-0500 Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:47:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: I'm just not sure how the tip will respond to the samehandling. Anyone know what the optimal way to approach this in theNyatex glued section is?Thanks for any info.Jon McAnulty Jon,I think Richard Tyree made the original post, and I may have followedup on it. If the times you tried worked, then stick with them. As soon as Ibind the blank, I wash it down with white vinegar. Doing so removes about80%of the excess glue. The next day (8-16 hours) I remove the originalbindingcord, and carefully wash down the bare blank with vinegar again. Thissecondwashing removes almost all the remaining excess glue. I then re- bind, andheatset the glue.I don't know that this is the "optimal way to approach this" as youwrote, but it is a good way. Be careful with the glued blank during thesecondwashing and binding, and you should be okay. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --simple boundary-- from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Tue Mar 14 13:15:08 2000 Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:12:36 -0600 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Re[2]: Unbinding the bound (Nyatex and thread removal) Harry,Just to be sure I understand you- are you saying you are able to take off the excess Nyatex with the vinegar or are you using some other adhesive?Cheers.Jon from Oozakgpt@aol.com Tue Mar 14 14:33:49 2000 Subject: Where to find shoulder bolts Having a hard time finding shoulder bolts for my planing forms.Cananybody help? from caneman@clnk.com Tue Mar 14 14:46:38 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:43:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Where to find shoulder bolts Most hardware stores have them. If noone in your area carries them thentryEnco at 1-800-USE-ENCO. I got a sales flyer from them in the mail todaythat has a fairly wide selection of shoulder bolts in it. On the same pagethey have the precision ground dowel pins (almost like a form builderspage*S*)Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Where to find shoulder bolts Having a hard time finding shoulder bolts for my planing forms.Cananybodyhelp? from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Mar 14 14:47:04 2000 Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture Hi Danny,After reading your posting I feel obligated to tell this true story. Just afew years ago a friend of mine went on a back packing trip with his familyin the wilds of British Columbia armed with a bamboo fly rod I had madeforhim in 1980. It was an 8ft x 2pc x 6wt glued up with Urac 185 andfinishedwith Varmor R-10 varnish. During the hike into the lake where they wouldcamp for 3 days the rod slipped out of it's rod case unbeknownst to themandfell into a small stream they had forded. When they hiked out 3 days laterthey found the rod and brought it to me to "fix" since it had been laying inthe water all that time. You talk about absorbing water, this rod sure hadits opportunity. What I did with the rod was to put it in my rod dryer forseveral days at 100F and then polished up the cork, polished up the varnisha bit and recoated it with one coat of Varmor R-10. The rod was fine. Itretained it's action, remained straight and is still in service today.I'm not sure this will help you solve the dilemma you have with your rodblank but it does point out to me the moisture resisting qualities of a goodvarnish.Ray---- - Original Message ----- Subject: Unwanted moisture To all.... I have a un varnished blank, that have been in my workshop for a coupleof months.Today I had a look at it, and when I bend the rod, its staying bend`ed.Is this because the bamboo has taken moisture from the environment? Is it possible to put it in the heater again, and get rid of theunwanted moisture? The rod has been glued with PU, it can take about100*C without any problem. Or is the rod only suitable for a blackboardpointer....... TIAdanny from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Mar 14 15:12:03 2000 13:14:45 PST Subject: Humidity vs. Water Water in solid form, ice, wouldn't penetrate a bamboo rod finish, so iswater in liquid form also less able to penetrate a good bamboo rod finish then water in vapor form? If this is true then it would help explain why wewant some kind of finish on our rods to better protect them from liquid watereven if water in vapor form is able to eventually penetrate to some particular level over time. Chris from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Mar 14 16:17:08 2000 (MET) Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture Thanks folks for all Your help on this issue. I put the rod in my airflow oven for 15 minutes, and its back in business.I'm getting my varnish ready now:-) danny ------>--------work from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Mar 14 16:25:53 2000 Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture In a message dated 3/14/0 2:39:14 PM, danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.nowrites: That should be enough heat treatment. If the stuff was crisp and is nowlimp, moisture must be the culprit. If you have access to an accurate scale, carefully weigh the sections. Then go to a drying regimen, when you aredone weigh the strips again. If they are lighter, the missing weight is water,and you can figure out what percent moisture you drove out. I use a reloader's grain scale for this purpose. You might also try weighing an extra strip after you heat treat it, and then weigh it every week for a couple months.It is interesting to watch the water return. from rcurry@webryders.com Tue Mar 14 16:46:14 2000 mamabear.webryders.net(Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 593- 58620U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:49:30 - 0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture Danny,I've seen this happen to glued sections that had been fine in a workshop years and were then set standing butt down on the concrete floor for twomonths.They would hold any bend. Some careful drying and they were crisp again.Methinks the cane wicks moisture from the concrete.Best regards,Reed Danny Twang wrote: Tom, The cane was heat treated to a medium brown color, airflow oven 180*C minutes, and the flamed to get the dark brown stripes. So I think it wastreatedall right, but maybe the environment is more humid than I want tothink...... danny TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/14/0 1:26:09 PM, richard.nantel@videotron.cawrites: Richard - I think you may have misunderstood what people were saying.Nofinish on a rod would be a disaster. It would allow the cane to easilyexchange moisture with the air, and in the typical temperate zoneclimatewhere most of us live, you would have a big humidity spike in thesummer, anda drying effect in the heated indoor air of winter. No finish will stopthemoisture exchange, but any reasonable one will slow the processenough toeliminate the seasonal spikes and give you a moisture contentreasonablyclose to the average for your climate. The good news for Danny is thatmoisture is not fatal, and if he puts the rod in a drying cabinet, he isbackin business. I suspect his basement is the culprit. My own rods arealwaysstored in a heated space in winter, and air conditioned in summer.To give you an idea of how much moisture can be reabsorbed and thendrivenoff, I once straightened flamed strips by the Bokstrom soaking method.Thestrips became so pliable, I believe I could have tied them in a knot. Amonthlater I glued up the rod, never having done anything special to dry thestrips. The rod is an ultra crisp caster, that has never taken a set.Another thought for Danny. If your basement is indeed dry, you may nothaveenough heat treatment into the strips. If that is the case, even areasonablemoisture content may be enough to allow the rod to take a set. I wouldstillbuild the rod. A couple of my early rods are probably in that category,butstill fish well from jlintvet@erols.com Tue Mar 14 17:49:16 2000 ([207.172.55.79] helo=compaq) Subject: Re: Where to find shoulder bolts McMaster-Carr is the way to go...that or MSC. Both have websites.McMaster-Carr has a complete online catalog. Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Where to find shoulder bolts Having a hard time finding shoulder bolts for my planing forms.Cananybodyhelp? from harms1@prodigy.net Tue Mar 14 18:35:32 2000 Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:35:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0093_01BF8DEC.441CCE40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0093_01BF8DEC.441CCE40 Danny,I think you've got a blackboard pointer, as you say. I seriously doubt = rod has been lying around for a few months, and it has simply reached a = a varnished rod would have done this--and there's no help for it, =regardless of how dry the cane was when you built the rod. Varnish =would slow the process down, but nothing prevents moisture fromcreeping =in and out. I think the problem is simply that you built the rod out of a bad culm. =The best advice I can give you is always to check each split-out culm =before building. Select a test strip from the culm in question and give =each area between the nodes a really good flexing. A good culm will =jump back nearly to its original position like a steel spring. But from =time to time you'll also find a culm that has a weak section somewhere =along its length. This culm will feel like mush when you give it a good = not spring back. These culms make excellent tomato stakes, and will =also roast hot dogs beautifully. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Subject: Unwanted moisture To all.... I have a un varnished blank, that have been in my workshop for a =coupleof months.Today I had a look at it, and when I bend the rod, its staying =bend`ed.Is this because the bamboo has taken moisture from the environment? Is it possible to put it in the heater again, and get rid of theunwanted moisture? The rod has been glued with PU, it can take about100*C without any problem. Or is the rod only suitable for a =blackboardpointer....... TIAdanny ------=_NextPart_000_0093_01BF8DEC.441CCE40 Danny,I think you've gota = rod has been lying= a varnished =rod would have done this--and= help for it, regardless of how dry the cane was when you built the = Varnish would slow the process down, but nothing prevents moisture from= in and out. I think theproblem = time you'll also find a culm that has a weak section somewhere along its = the section will not spring = beautifully. Bill ------------------------------------------------- here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original = From: "Danny Sent: Tuesday,March = 7:06 AMSubject: moisture = = ------=_NextPart_000_0093_01BF8DEC.441CCE40-- from can@telusplanet.net Tue Mar 14 20:42:18 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with ESMTP 0700 Subject: Alcohol Lamp Picked up a burner today, anybody have tips on how to trim wick, howmuch to have exposed, any other safety/operation notes, hints?-- CheersCraig from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Mar 14 21:37:05 2000 Subject: Re: Binding In a message dated 03/13/2000 1:40:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, yves@dancris.com writes: Dave,I usually bind by hand. I hold the spool of binding cordon the floor with my feet, and hold tension this way, while I bind the blank. As I need more cord, I hold the cord tight on the blank, letout more from the spool and then hold it tight with my foot andbind some more. Works for me! Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed Mar 15 04:16:52 2000 (HELO localhost) Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:15:14 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:16:32 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Unwanted moisture 9C324FB0BD9C14AC79562268" --------------9C324FB0BD9C14AC79562268 Bill, Thanks for Your input. But I think I got a nice crisp rod again. I reheated the rod in myairflow oven and varnished the blank as soon it was cooled down a bit.Today I checked it, and it was nice and crisp and stod up very well tomy bend test.The problem was that my workshop in the basement probably is morehumid than I was aware of. from now I`m going to store all my heattreated cane in a closed plastic tube with Silica Gel. I do not think the culm was bad, I always select the cane with greatecare. I`ve read the Garrison/Carmichael book and I`m always pickingthe best material for my rods. Beeing the cheapest part of a rod, butalso the most important, I want hesitate to descard bad ones. regardsdanny Danny,I think you've got a blackboard pointer, as you say. I seriouslydoubt that the problem is due to moisture creeping in. Therod hasbeen lying around for a few months, and it has simply reached abalance with whatever the ambient humidity is. Evena varnished rodwould have done this--and there's no help for it, regardless of howdry the cane was when you built the rod. Varnish would slow theprocess down, but nothing prevents moisture from creeping in andout. I think the problem is simply that you built the rod out of a badculm. The best advice I can give you is always to check eachsplit-out culm before building. Select a test strip from the culm inquestion and give each area between the nodes a really good flexing.A good culm will jump back nearly to its original position like asteel spring. But from time to time you'll also find a culm that hasa weak section somewhere along its length. This culm will feel likemush when you give it a good bend, and the section willnot springback. These culms make excellent tomato stakes, and will also roasthot dogs beautifully. cheers, Bill --------------9C324FB0BD9C14AC79562268 Bill, Thanks for Yourinput. But I think I got a nicecrisprod again. I reheated the rod in my airflow oven and varnished the blankas soon it was cooled down a bit. Today I checked it, and it was nice andcrisp and stod up very well to my bend test.The problem was that myworkshopin the basement probably is more humid than I was aware of. from now going to store all my heat treated cane in a closed plastic tube with SilicaGel. I do not think the culmwasbad, I always select the cane with greate care. I`ve read theGarrison/Carmichael hesitateto descard bad ones. regardsdanny Danny,Ithink you've got a blackboard pointer, as you say. I seriously doubt that Therodhas been lying around for a few months, and it has simply reached abalance Evenavarnished rod would have done this--and there's no help for it, regardless the process down, but nothing prevents moisture from creeping in and The best advice I can give you is always to check each split-out culmbefore each area between you'll also find a culm that has a weak section somewhere along its This culm will feel like mush when you give it a good bend, and the sectionwillnot spring roast Bill --------------9C324FB0BD9C14AC79562268-- from hood@dilbert.fc.hp.com Wed Mar 15 12:19:10 2000 Subject: Re: Setting Forms Mike Leitheiser asked about a problem using the Chris Bogart's drill rodmethod of setting his forms; Mike didn't include his email address inhis request so I will answer here. Chris's method is quite elegant, simpleand accurate; however if the drill rod used has a diameter greater than1.333... times the actual depth of the groove it will sit on top of theforms instead of in the groove. This will result in a measured/calculateddepth greater than the actual depth. Mike, your table of numbers isdifficult to read on my computer so I can't say for sure if this is yourproblem. If this doesn't make sense send the numbers to hood@fc.hp.comand I will try to help if I can. David Hoodhood@fc.hp.com P.S. Chris, you might want to include this warning in your instructions. from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 15 14:22:11 2000 Subject: INT QTC INT QRKK from ernie2@pacbell.net Wed Mar 15 15:22:58 2000 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Stress Curve I thought I was doing fine with Darryl Hayashida's explanation of how totell a fast or slow rod from the stress curve, then I came across TomSmithwick's 51/2 foot one piece taper in the Archives which is very fastaction with a stress curve that I thought was a slow action. Where did Igowrong?Ernie Harrison from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Wed Mar 15 16:04:29 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Chatsworth Game Fair 2000 If any one on the list is planning to attend the Chatsworth Game Fair ,Derbyshire,England in May of this year and would like to meet up with afew bamboo rod enthusiasts and builders please contact me ......Paul B from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Mar 15 16:53:14 2000 Subject: Re: Stress Curve That curve looks like a fast rod to me...The max stress barely goes over 180,000, andit takes a fast dive down below 140,000 startingat about half of it's length. Darryl I thought I was doing fine with Darryl Hayashida's explanation of how totell a fast or slow rod from the stress curve, then I came across TomSmithwick's 51/2 foot one piece taper in the Archives which is very fastaction with a stress curve that I thought was a slow action. Where did Igowrong?Ernie Harrison from ggwillia@bellsouth.net Wed Mar 15 18:17:47 2000 Subject: Wright&McGill Granger Special This rod came into my shop a while back for some de-lamination repairand while it was here I pulled the taper. It's 8'6" and although theline weight was not on the rod It handles a 6 wt. line and a #6 poppingbug superbly. If anyone is looking for a good smallmouth bass rod Ithink this one will do nicely. The varnish has been subtracted from thetaper. Wright & McGill8' 6" Granger Special 3/2 2nd tip0 .065 .0655 .076 .08010 .102 .10215 .113 .11520 .130 .13125 .146 .14530 .158 .15935 .18640 .19845 .21550 .22655 .24560 .25365 .25570 .27075 .28580 .30485 .31590 .345 from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 15 19:06:47 2000 Subject: Re: Stress Curve In a message dated 3/15/0 9:30:18 PM, ernie2@pacbell.net writes: You looked at the curve, but not the numbers. The stresses are all fairly low, and that partially explains the speed. The other factor is the shortness of the rod. A lot of taper is built into a short length. That will always translate into speed. The stress curvemethod is a great tool, but there is no substitute for the experience of handling a number of rods and hoarding a bunch of tapers.. from bob@downandacross.com Wed Mar 15 20:20:09 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Mar 16 06:37:36 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with ESMTP id for Subject: messages? One message on the list in the last 12 hours? Regards, Steve from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Mar 16 06:46:30 2000 Subject: Question on flattening nodes Guys, from what I've heard there seems to be two different methods forflatteningnodes. The first involves cleaning off the pith side of the node, thenheating and flattening in a vise. The second method is the same EXCEPTinstead of flattening so that both pith and enamel sides are flat some sortof offset device is used so that as the node is put under pressure the areaimmediately under the node is unsupported thus allowing room to, I'll callit , reverse bend the nodal fibers and as pressure is relieved the fiberswill be straight. (I know I left out the business about a piece of materialcontacting the node only to help depress the fibers into the unsupportedarea).Now, first off, do I have these two methods basiclly straight, and second,is one preferable over the other or is there no real difference beyondpersonal preference? Thanks, Mike (Still wading through stress curves) from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 16 09:11:08 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Subject: Driving your neighbors crazy Hi, Each spring my winter's output gets test run in the front yard. Most yearsthere is new snow from the early March storms. The fly line lays longsnakytracks from my sidewalk over into the west neighbor's yard. The eastneighbor caught me one day and gave me a plastic fish to cast to.The west neighbor just can't figure out what type of critter made themarks. Should I tell them? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 16 09:18:46 2000 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy Don, I would invite the east neighbor over for a cup of coffee, and layraisins alongside the snaky tracks to your west neighbor's yard. THATshould really get their attention!J. Snider At 08:19 AM 03/16/2000 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Hi, Each spring my winter's output gets test run in the front yard. Most yearsthere is new snow from the early March storms. The fly line lays longsnakytracks from my sidewalk over into the west neighbor's yard. The eastneighbor caught me one day and gave me a plastic fish to cast to.The west neighbor just can't figure out what type of critter made themarks. Should I tell them? catch ya' Don>http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from brewer@teleport.com Thu Mar 16 09:52:56 2000 "taliesin"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAAmN2cG_; Thu Mar 1607:52:42 2000 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy My neighbors always ask me "Catching any?". Every time! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Driving your neighbors crazy Hi, Each spring my winter's output gets test run in the front yard. Mostyearsthere is new snow from the early March storms. The fly line lays longsnakytracks from my sidewalk over into the west neighbor's yard. The eastneighbor caught me one day and gave me a plastic fish to cast to.The west neighbor just can't figure out what type of critter made themarks. Should I tell them? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from dhaftel@att.com Thu Mar 16 10:06:31 2000 LAA12812 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Driving your neighbors crazy Mine tell me that there aren't any fish in the lawn. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy My neighbors always ask me "Catching any?". Every time! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Driving your neighbors crazy Hi, Each spring my winter's output gets test run in the front yard. Mostyearsthere is new snow from the early March storms. The fly line lays longsnakytracks from my sidewalk over into the west neighbor's yard. The eastneighbor caught me one day and gave me a plastic fish to cast to.The west neighbor just can't figure out what type of critter made themarks. Should I tell them? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Mar 16 11:11:28 2000 9:15:18 PST Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy I remember a couple of years ago Mike Leitheiser was casting in front ofmy house and a couple of guys in a truck stopped out front and asked if he was catching anything. He casually responded that he had caught a "Couple of Suckers". That seemed a fitting response and I now use it routinely. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- My neighbors always ask me "Catching any?". Every time! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Driving your neighbors crazy Hi, Each spring my winter's output gets test run in the front yard. Mostyearsthere is new snow from the early March storms. The fly line lays longsnakytracks from my sidewalk over into the west neighbor's yard. The eastneighbor caught me one day and gave me a plastic fish to cast to.The west neighbor just can't figure out what type of critter made themarks. Should I tell them? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Mar 16 12:41:08 2000 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy One of the zillions of things I've learned from the pusuit of fishing isthat one's voice carries MUCH farther than you might think. This appliesoff the water as well: One day I was trying out a new rod in my yard and I overheard thenextdoor neighboors' discussion they were having over the bar-b-q grill. One guy: "What the hell is he doin out there?"Other guy: "I dunno...looks like he's casting that funny looking fishingpole again." If I'd been practicing stabbing things in a swimming pool with a gigthey'd have never blinked. Perhaps you have to know southern IL/MOculture to get that. Joe from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Mar 16 13:05:55 2000 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy My neighbor walked across the street and gave me a casting lesson. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy One of the zillions of things I've learned from the pusuit of fishing isthat one's voice carries MUCH farther than you might think. This appliesoff the water as well: One day I was trying out a new rod in my yard and I overheard thenextdoor neighboors' discussion they were having over the bar-b-q grill. One guy: "What the hell is he doin out there?"Other guy: "I dunno...looks like he's casting that funny looking fishingpole again." If I'd been practicing stabbing things in a swimming pool with a gigthey'd have never blinked. Perhaps you have to know southern IL/MOculture to get that. Joe from Bamboomaker@aol.com Thu Mar 16 13:41:27 2000 Subject: heating varnish revisited It has been quiet, so I thought that I'd start a new thread... My basement floor has a new 1.5" hole in it to accommodate a longer diprod. After digging (actuallyvacuuming) out a dirt column below, I have a new longer dipping set-up. All of you are probably aware of that Minnesota is basically Antarctica inthe US. Hence, I found that withalmost 2 feet of copper dip tube under ground, my varnish was 'chilled' toabout 46 degrees despite theambient 70 degrees in my shop. I recently purchased a couple of 'wrap around heating elements' fromAmerican Science and Surplus for $1.95each. (item 1490) (I have no commercial association with them). They are27 inches long and when solderedtogether, they wrap my dip tube fairly well. They are reported to rate at90 watts each, but all that I knowafter rigging it up to 110 volts, that it brings my varnish to 90 degreeswith the two elements connected inserial, wrapped around my dip tube. Measuring the temperature of theheated elements directly equates 160degrees F with 110 v AC. Reviewing the recent discussion on archives, there has been mention ofusing a variety of different items forheating. How many of you have 'subterranean' dip tubes and if so, do you have moreproblems during the winter vs summerwith varnish temperature. How do you regulate it? Just to stir some discussion. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 16 13:58:58 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:58:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy 2 Randy et al, Have had the experience of a couple of guys stopping and asking theworld'sdumb's question "catching any".Well, these guys drove off and about then another neighbor who does fishwandered over with a pike of about 15 lbs. The jerks drives by and again Iwas asked getting any - Yupe- just got this one as I held up the pike. Shut'em up. Don At 07:53 AM 3/16/00 -0800, Randy Brewer wrote:My neighbors always ask me "Catching any?". Every time! ----- Original Message -----From: "Don & Sandy Andersen" Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:19 AMSubject: Driving your neighbors crazy Hi, Each spring my winter's output gets test run in the front yard. Mostyearsthere is new snow from the early March storms. The fly line lays longsnakytracks from my sidewalk over into the west neighbor's yard. The eastneighbor caught me one day and gave me a plastic fish to cast to.The west neighbor just can't figure out what type of critter made themarks. Should I tell them? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from dati@selway.umt.edu Thu Mar 16 14:07:34 2000 13:07:31 -0700 Subject: stabilized reel seat spacers What does stabilized mean? from brewer@teleport.com Thu Mar 16 14:08:20 2000 "taliesin"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0m4lQz; Thu Mar 1612:08:06 2000 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I just received two plastic fly boxes from the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazinelastnight, but no magazine. Someone is still showing up for work there, somaybethere's hope. My request for a refund was not answered, however. Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 16 14:12:15 2000 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy I DO know So. Ill. culture, I DO get it (having lived/been raised there for30+ years), yet most of the So. Illinoians I associated with used fly rods,some since we were nine years old. We even had a fly fishing club in highschool way back in the early '50's (and most of our parents were coalminers/factory workers). Perhaps you should choose your company (andyourneighbors) with greater care!J. Snider At 12:48 PM 03/16/2000 -0600, Joseph and Allison Kallo wrote:One of the zillions of things I've learned from the pusuit of fishing isthat one's voice carries MUCH farther than you might think. This appliesoff the water as well: One day I was trying out a new rod in my yard and I overheard thenextdoor neighboors' discussion they were having over the bar-b-q grill. One guy: "What the hell is he doin out there?"Other guy: "I dunno...looks like he's casting that funny looking fishingpole again." If I'd been practicing stabbing things in a swimming pool with a gigthey'd have never blinked. Perhaps you have to know southern IL/MOculture to get that. Joe from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 16 14:28:49 2000 Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:28:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy Don,I have the perfect answer to those kind of questions from theneighborhood kids. The kids would drive around on their bikes taunting me,"catching any?" and "why are you doing that? ". One day I had some reallittlebuggers were hounding me and finally when one asked "hey weirdo, why yadointhat?" I calmly turned my wrist mid cast and landed the end of my tippetwith asharp SNAP on his rear end and replied "so I can do that!" Luckily their 6'tall 300 pound father didn't come looking for me.;^) Shawn Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Hi, Each spring my winter's output gets test run in the front yard. Mostyearsthere is new snow from the early March storms. The fly line lays longsnakytracks from my sidewalk over into the west neighbor's yard. The eastneighbor caught me one day and gave me a plastic fish to cast to.The west neighbor just can't figure out what type of critter made themarks. Should I tell them? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Mar 16 14:34:17 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:21:22 Subject: Foot pedal for lathe Does anyone know where I would get a foot controlled on/off switch intowhich I could plug my lathe? Thanks in advance, Richard from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 16 14:53:00 2000 OAA08946; Subject: Re: stabilized reel seat spacers Darin, A "Stabilized" reelseat filler is one where the wood filler has beenimpregnated so that when it is turned to size it does not crack and comeapart. To be beautiful a lot of reelseat fillers are made of burled wood.This type of wood has a tendency to come apart or crack when turned. If itis impregnated, it is "Stabilized".Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: stabilized reel seat spacers What does stabilized mean? from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 16 14:57:21 2000 OAA22595; "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Foot pedal for lathe Richard, I would try McMaster-Carr or Grainger's. Both are online and haveextensive catalogue'sDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Foot pedal for lathe Does anyone know where I would get a foot controlled on/off switch intowhich I could plug my lathe? Thanks in advance, Richard from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 16 15:15:05 2000 PAA16547 Subject: Lathe Foot Switches boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BF8F59.73A7C7A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BF8F59.73A7C7A0 Richard, Specifically go to www.mcmaster.com Then "Lighting & =Electrical". Then " Switches". Then "Foot Switches (1) or (2)". You =should find what you want there. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BF8F59.73A7C7A0 = helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BF8F59.73A7C7A0-- from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Mar 16 16:13:30 2000 14:20:15 -0800 Subject: reelseats Anyone making the old style of seats with no wood filler and allaluminum, or better yet, nickel silver? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Mar 16 16:45:33 2000 Subject: Re: heating varnish revisited Hi Mark,I use a subterranean dip tube that's 5ft long with 2 ft of it under thebasement floor. No problems with varnish temperature and I don't heat thevarnish either but then we don't have cold winters here in the Northwestusually.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: heating varnish revisited It has been quiet, so I thought that I'd start a new thread... My basement floor has a new 1.5" hole in it to accommodate a longer diprod. After digging (actually vacuuming) out a dirt column below, I have anew longer dipping set-up. All of you are probably aware of that Minnesota is basically Antarcticainthe US. Hence, I found that with almost 2 feet of copper dip tube underground, my varnish was 'chilled' to about 46 degrees despite the ambient70degrees in my shop. I recently purchased a couple of 'wrap around heating elements' fromAmerican Science and Surplus for $1.95 each. (item 1490) (I have nocommercial association with them). They are 27 inches long and whensoldered together, they wrap my dip tube fairly well. They are reported torate at 90 watts each, but all that I know after rigging it up to 110 volts,that it brings my varnish to 90 degrees with the two elements connectedinserial, wrapped around my dip tube. Measuring the temperature of theheatedelements directly equates 160 degrees F with 110 v AC. Reviewing the recent discussion on archives, there has been mention ofusing a variety of different items for heating. How many of you have 'subterranean' dip tubes and if so, do you havemoreproblems during the winter vs summer with varnish temperature. How doyouregulate it? Just to stir some discussion. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Mar 16 17:31:38 2000 Subject: Re: reelseats Check Glen Struble. They make or at least made an all NS version of theseat Sage uses on their synthetics. I don't think they have a website, but they advertise in the back of most flyfishing mags. Rob Hoffhines from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 16 17:59:44 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:00:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8F71.AAE257E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8F71.AAE257E0 I had a call from the BFR mag. yesterday, apologizing for the mess up on =my back issue order. They promised to send the one issue they have left, =and let me know the balance for my subscription. If the back issue =comes, I'll send the balance promptly ! I hope they make it ! GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8F71.AAE257E0 I had a call from the BFR mag. yesterday, apologizing for = up on my back issue order. They promised to send the one issue they have = and let me know the balance for my subscription. If the back issue = send the balance promptly ! I hope they make it ! GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF8F71.AAE257E0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 16 18:06:01 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:06:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF8F72.919EA440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF8F72.919EA440 I once had a new spool of mono, break . While out in the yard, trying to =save some of it, I looked up and my neighbor was making these strange =gestures, raising one arm above his head. I finally figured out these =were my motions as I pulled the line out ! I guess we all have weird people next to us at times ! This guy had baby =skunks that followed him anywhere ! GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF8F72.919EA440 I once had a new spool of mono, break . While out in the = trying to save some of it, I looked up and my neighbor was making these = gestures, raising one arm above his head. I finally figured out these = motions as I pulled the line out ! I guess we all have weird people next to us at times ! This= baby skunks that followed him anywhere ! GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF8F72.919EA440-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 16 18:07:44 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:08:15 -0600 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Foot pedal for lathe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF8F72.C6A04860" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF8F72.C6A04860 You might look in a sewing machine repair shop. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF8F72.C6A04860 You might look in a sewing machine repair =shop. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF8F72.C6A04860-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 16 18:10:07 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:10:53 -0600 Subject: Re: reelseats boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF8F73.245ABA80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF8F73.245ABA80 Try Cabelas. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF8F73.245ABA80 Try Cabelas. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF8F73.245ABA80-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 16 18:25:12 2000 Subject: Re: Driving your neighbors crazy boundary="=====================_7778036==_.ALT" --=====================_7778036==_.ALT Com'on now folks. Is it our neighbors who are really weird?I recall back in the late '40's I had an uncle who was considered thevillage'sne'er do well--because he spent all of his time hunting and fishing. when Iwas 8 or 9 I used to hide behind the hedge row to watch him cast a fly lineinhis back yard. It was at that moment that I decided I wanted to grow up tobejust like him! Mowed yards like crazy for 75 cents to raise the 12 dollarstobuy a cheap fly rod, reel and line. Unlike him, since then I let too manythings get in the way. No more!J. Snider At 06:08 PM 03/16/2000 -0600, nobler wrote: I once had a new spool of mono, break . While out in the yard, trying tosavesome of it, I looked up and my neighbor was making these strangegestures,raising one arm above his head. I finally figured out these were mymotionsas I pulled the line out ! I guess we all have weird people next to us at times ! This guy had babyskunks that followed him anywhere ! GMA --=====================_7778036==_.ALT I recall back in the late '40's I had an uncle who was considered thevillage's ne'er do well--because he spent all of his time hunting and watch him cast a fly line in his back yard. It was at that moment that Idecided I wanted to grow up to be just like him! Mowed yards like crazy J. Snider At 06:08 PM 03/16/2000 -0600, nobler wrote: I once had a new spool of mono, break .While out in the yard, trying to save some of it, I looked up and myneighbor was making these strange gestures, raising one arm above hishead. I finally figured out these were my motions as I pulled the lineout ! I guess we all have weird people next to us at times ! This guy hadbaby skunks that followed him anywhere ! GMA --=====================_7778036==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Mar 16 18:29:40 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: reelseats boundary="=====================_8571828==_.ALT" --=====================_8571828==_.ALT Yes, they have some pretty fairly priced seats. I think their volume let's them offer some decent stuff. I know they at least have aluminum oneswith metal fillers.Bob At 06:12 PM 3/16/00 -0600, you wrote:Try Cabelas. GMA Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_8571828==_.ALT Yes, they have some pretty fairly priced seats. I think their volumelet's them offer some decent stuff. I know they at least have aluminumones with metal fillers.Bob At 06:12 PM 3/16/00 -0600, you wrote:Try Cabelas. GMA Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_8571828==_.ALT-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Mar 16 18:41:06 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:40:17 Subject: RE: Lathe Foot Switches BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_FfhCtHC5rzblR2VyDQcVDA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_FfhCtHC5rzblR2VyDQcVDA) Many thanks for doing all this leg work for me, Dick. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu FuhrmanSent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 4:08 PM Subject: Lathe Foot Switches Richard, Specifically go to www.mcmaster.com Then "Lighting &Electrical". Then " Switches". Then "Foot Switches (1) or (2)". Youshould find what you want there. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net --Boundary_(ID_FfhCtHC5rzblR2VyDQcVDA) thanks for doing all this leg work for me, Dick. Richard FuhrmanSent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 4:08 Rodmakers ListSubject: Lathe Foot =Switches Then = helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net --Boundary_(ID_FfhCtHC5rzblR2VyDQcVDA)-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Mar 16 20:29:51 2000 18:33:48 PST Subject: White Ink Anyone know what Edwards used on their rods with the white inkinscriptions? Any suggestions as to a comparable pen that is available these days? Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Mar 16 20:35:16 2000 18:39:21 PST Subject: Leonard 50 Green Thread Do you guys know what the original green thread color of the Leonard 50is? Is their a currently available color that matches? Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 16 21:17:29 2000 Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:16:56 -0400 Subject: Re: reelseats Rob,You might want to try Robert Vennari or Dave Le clair? They might beable to help you out.Shawn Rob Clarke wrote: Anyone making the old style of seats with no wood filler and allaluminum, or better yet, nickel silver? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Mar 16 21:47:26 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: reelseats Rob, I have a few dozen all metal reel seats, some solid nickel silver. WhatsizeI.D. are you looking for? Please contact me off list. Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: reelseats Anyone making the old style of seats with no wood filler and allaluminum,or better yet, nickel silver? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com from wgray@uidaho.edu Thu Mar 16 22:50:44 2000 UAA09545 SMTP; 17 Mar 2000 05:07:58 UT Subject: Varnishing Taunton publications (Fine Woodworking) has some new video's out that might be of interest on varnish finishing. Descriptions are given at teh web pages. **Video 1: Brushing Varnishes, Lacquer & Shellac by Jeff Jewitt**http://www.taunton.com/fw/woodshop/brushing.htm **Video 2: French Polish by Jeff Jewitt**http://www.taunton.com/fw/woodshop/frenchpolish.htm **Video 3: Spray Basics by Michael Dresdner**http://www.taunton.com/fw/woodshop/spraybasics.htm No commercial interest, etc. from wgray@uidaho.edu Thu Mar 16 22:50:45 2000 UAA09529; SMTP; 17 Mar 2000 05:07:58 UT Subject: Re: heating varnish revisited Ground temps stabilize at 4-6 ft in most areas, year round. If yourbasement is 8 ft then it is unlikely that the temp will change much next summer. Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:40:36 EST Subject: heating varnish revisited It has been quiet, so I thought that I'd start a new thread... My basement floor has a new 1.5" hole in it to accommodate a longer diprod. After digging (actually vacuuming) out a dirt column below, I have a newlongerdipping set-up. All of you are probably aware of that Minnesota is basically Antarcticain theUS. Hence, I found that with almost 2 feet of copper dip tube underground, myvarnish was 'chilled' to about 46 degrees despite the ambient 70 degreesin myshop. I recently purchased a couple of 'wrap around heating elements' fromAmericanScience and Surplus for $1.95 each. (item 1490) (I have no commercialassociation with them). They are 27 inches long and when solderedtogether,they wrap my dip tube fairly well. They are reported to rate at 90 wattseach,but all that I know after rigging it up to 110 volts, that it brings myvarnishto 90 degrees with the two elements connected in serial, wrappedaround my diptube. Measuring the temperature of the heated elements directly equates160degrees F with 110 v AC. Reviewing the recent discussion on archives, there has been mention ofusing avariety of different items for heating. How many of you have 'subterranean' dip tubes and if so, do you havemoreproblems during the winter vs summer with varnish temperature. Howdo youregulate it? Just to stir some discussion. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN *********************************************************** A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. George Bernard Shaw,1944******************************************************** C. Wilson Gray Ph 208.736.3622P O Box 1827 Fax 736.0843Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 UI, Twin Falls R&E Center email wgray@uidaho.edu ******************************************************** from martinjensen@home.com Thu Mar 16 23:38:37 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:38:32 -0800 Subject: RE: heating varnish revisited FWIW I had problems with my finish (Pratt & Lambert R10) when I heatedmyvarnish to 90 degrees. I liked the fact that it was thin and I think thatseveral thin coats are better then a thick coat but I had the varnishwrinkle the previous coat a couple of times. Had to wipe down and re- prepthe piece. I now heat it to 70 to 75 degrees no more and have had no moreproblems (one day between coats). I did use the pipe wraps that youdescribed. The ones that I purchased had temp switched that activated atsomething like 35 to 40 degrees. I had to cut these out and by-pass theminorder to get them to work. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- wgray@uidaho.edu Subject: Re: heating varnish revisited Ground temps stabilize at 4-6 ft in most areas, year round. If yourbasementis 8 ft then it is unlikely that the temp will change much next summer. Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:40:36 EST Subject: heating varnish revisited It has been quiet, so I thought that I'd start a new thread... My basement floor has a new 1.5" hole in it to accommodate a longer diprod.After digging (actually vacuuming) out a dirt column below, I have a newlongerdipping set-up. All of you are probably aware of that Minnesota is basically AntarcticaintheUS. Hence, I found that with almost 2 feet of copper dip tube underground, myvarnish was 'chilled' to about 46 degrees despite the ambient 70 degreesin myshop. I recently purchased a couple of 'wrap around heating elements' fromAmericanScience and Surplus for $1.95 each. (item 1490) (I have no commercialassociation with them). They are 27 inches long and when solderedtogether,they wrap my dip tube fairly well. They are reported to rate at 90 wattseach,but all that I know after rigging it up to 110 volts, that it brings myvarnishto 90 degrees with the two elements connected in serial, wrappedaround mydiptube. Measuring the temperature of the heated elements directly equates160degrees F with 110 v AC. Reviewing the recent discussion on archives, there has been mention ofusing avariety of different items for heating. How many of you have 'subterranean' dip tubes and if so, do you havemoreproblems during the winter vs summer with varnish temperature. Howdo youregulate it? Just to stir some discussion. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN *********************************************************** A government which robs Peter to pay Paulcan always depend on the support of Paul. George Bernard Shaw,1944******************************************************** C. Wilson Gray Ph 208.736.3622P O Box 1827 Fax 736.0843Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 UI, Twin Falls R&E Center email wgray@uidaho.edu ******************************************************** from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Thu Mar 16 23:49:09 2000 Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:49:02 -0500 Subject: Re: White Ink You should be able to get waterproof drafting ink in white (and othercolors) for Rapidograph pens at stores that carry drafting supplies. I gotsome at my local university bookstore. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: White Ink Anyone know what Edwards used on their rods with the white inkinscriptions?Any suggestions as to a comparable pen that is available these days?Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 17 05:31:42 2000 0000 (204.186.33.104) Subject: Re: White Ink CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Anyone know what Edwards used on their rods with the white inkinscriptions?Any suggestions as to a comparable pen that is available these days? Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.eChris, I went to an art supply to replace a broken tip on my technicalpen and I saw these Pentel Gel Roller pens. They come in a bunch ofcolors including milky white and are permanent. I bought one to tryalong with the pen point. The technical pen point cost me $13.50, thegel roller pen cost $1.50. The Gel roller pen works better than mytechnical pen. Anyone interested in a Koh-I-Noor Rapidograph tech pen? from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Mar 17 06:56:21 2000 GAA00210 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with ESMTP id for Subject: List Is the list server having problems or is it my server. I am gettinganswers on the lists that I didn't see the original email to the list.Anyone else having problems? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Mar 17 07:02:37 2000 Subject: Re: White Ink On my darker flamed rods I have used Rapidograph white ink in aRapidographpen. Unlike the black India Ink used in these pens, however, the white inkwill smear easily (at least it does for me). Once the white ink is dry, Igently lay on a thin layer of varnish over the inscription using a small,blunt darning needle. Once this dries, use whatever finish/method youdesire.J. Snider At 09:51 PM 03/16/2000 -0800, Robert Kope wrote:You should be able to get waterproof drafting ink in white (and othercolors) for Rapidograph pens at stores that carry drafting supplies. I gotsome at my local university bookstore. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 6:39 PMSubject: White Ink Anyone know what Edwards used on their rods with the white inkinscriptions?Any suggestions as to a comparable pen that is available these days?Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from lars32@gateway.net Fri Mar 17 07:33:31 2000 Subject: Nyatex boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8FE3.EE729CA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8FE3.EE729CA0 In October Harry Boyd wrote that after gluing and binding he cleaned the =blank with white vinegar. In the morning he removed the string cleaned =the blanks once more completely with vinegar and rebound them. After =heat setting the glue the string comes off and the blank is clean and =ready for a final light sanding. I have just completed 4 rods for my =grandsons and used this method on all of them. I have been watching the =list to see comments from others regarding this tecnique. No one has =commented. The idea of eliminating the sanding away of the glue overcame=my fear of the vinegar seeping into the glue joints and ruining the =blanks. The 4 rods came out without any glue lines so apparently my =fears were unfounded. I've talked to Harry and he has used this method =on quite a number of rods with no ill effects. Anyone out there been =using this method?Dave Norling ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8FE3.EE729CA0 In October Harry Boyd wrote that= and binding he cleaned the blank with white vinegar. In the morning he = the string cleaned the blanks once more completely with vinegar and = them. After heat setting the glue the string comes off and the blank is = and ready for a final light sanding. I have just completed 4 rods for my = grandsons and used this method on all of them. I have been watching the = see comments from others regarding this tecnique. No one has commented.= of eliminating the sanding away of the glue overcame my fear of the = seeping into the glue joints and ruining the blanks. The 4 rods came out = any glue lines so apparently my fears were unfounded. I've talked to = he has used this method on quite a number of rods with no ill effects. = out there been using this method?Dave =Norling ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF8FE3.EE729CA0-- from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Fri Mar 17 08:30:39 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Cleaning up PU boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF9025.D5FD4C00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF9025.D5FD4C00 Fellow Listmembers, Does anyone know of a method to clean PU from the blank, something like =the Nyatex thing with vinegar? regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF9025.D5FD4C00 Fellow Listmembers, Does anyone know of a method to clean PU from the= something like the Nyatex thing with vinegar? regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF9025.D5FD4C00-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Mar 17 12:14:26 2000 Subject: HELP!!!!!!!!! I have a rod that the ferrules must come off both the males and thefemale. The ferrules are glued with epoxy and I don't want to destroy the rod,please help!!!!!!!Thanks from piscator@crosswinds.net Fri Mar 17 12:29:59 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: reel seat Hello - Does anyone know where I can get a nickel silver cap and ring reelseat like Payne used to use and T&T uses now? Brian Creek from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Fri Mar 17 12:56:42 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! Eastkoyfly,This is quite easy, but will require a little patience and caution!Strip off the whipping/wraps from both the male and female ferrules andgently warm the ferrules over a gas cooker ( or stove as you guys say ?).This will cause the ferrules to expand and the adhesive to creep andlose adhesion.Keep pulling at the ferrules as you do this and eventuallythe ferrule should come off.If the heat is too much and your patience islow the rod varnish will blister and on occasion the solder in theferrule will melt, be careful , you have be warned !Just be patient and keeping working at it.....WARNING; if the female has an internal weather cap ( i.e you can't seethe cane inside )there is always the possibility the epoxy can heat upto such an extent that it gases and the resulting expansion can causethe ferrule to blow off the end of the rod like a bullet with horrendouscosequences......be careful where the rod end is pointing, a friend ofmine put a hole through his kitchen window doing this !The same is true with the male ferrule , the end cap can blow off!Just remember to take a few precautions , be careful and the operationis quite straight forward.Inevitably if the ferrule has been bronzed this finish will be harmedand the ferrule will need 'bluing', but thats another subject.Good luck........Paul B Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: I have a rod that the ferrules must come off both the males and thefemale.The ferrules are glued with epoxy and I don't want to destroy the rod,pleasehelp!!!!!!!Thanks from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 17 13:10:37 2000 Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:10:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Nyatex boundary="------------522BA429DDD6D4B6690CEBAB" --------------522BA429DDD6D4B6690CEBAB This method doesn't work for urac does it??Shawn lars32 wrote: In October Harry Boyd wrote that after gluing and binding he cleanedthe blank with white vinegar. In the morning he removed the stringcleaned the blanks once more completely with vinegar and rebound them.After heat setting the glue the string comes off and the blank isclean and ready for a final light sanding. I have just completed 4rods for my grandsons and used this method on all of them. I have beenwatching the list to see comments from others regarding this tecnique.No one has commented. The idea of eliminating the sanding away of theglue overcame my fear of the vinegar seeping into the glue joints andruining the blanks. The 4 rods came out without any glue lines soapparently my fears were unfounded. I've talked to Harry and he hasused this method on quite a number of rods with no ill effects. Anyoneout there been using this method?Dave Norling --------------522BA429DDD6D4B6690CEBAB This method doesn't work for urac does it?? Shawnlars32 wrote: OctoberHarry Boyd wrote that after gluing and binding he cleaned the blank withwhite vinegar. In the morning he removed the string cleaned the blanksonce more completely with vinegar and rebound them. After heat settingthe glue the string comes off and the blank is clean and ready for a finallight sanding. I have just completed 4 rods for my grandsons and used thismethod on all of them. I have been watching the list to see comments fromothers regarding this tecnique. No one has commented. The idea ofeliminatingthe sanding away of the glue overcame my fear of the vinegar seeping intothe glue joints and ruining the blanks. The 4 rods came out without anyglue lines so apparently my fears were unfounded. I've talked to Harryand he has used this method on quite a number of rods with no ill effects.Anyone out there been using this method?DaveNorling --------------522BA429DDD6D4B6690CEBAB-- from dpizza@access1.net Fri Mar 17 14:01:50 2000 (SMTPD32-5.01) id AF0F240000C6; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:01:19 PDT Subject: test Please delete boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E3_01BF9007.A8260CE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01BF9007.A8260CE0 did I get disconnected ?? ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01BF9007.A8260CE0 ?? ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01BF9007.A8260CE0-- from jczimny@dol.net Fri Mar 17 14:21:58 2000 Subject: Re: Nyatex boundary="------------65BD9CE146BE6C90C52FF7F1" --------------65BD9CE146BE6C90C52FF7F1 No. Don't use vinegar on URAC. Use Water.John Z Shawn Pineo wrote: This method doesn't work for urac does it?? Shawn lars32 wrote: In October Harry Boyd wrote that after gluing and binding hecleaned the blank with white vinegar. In the morning he removed thestring cleaned the blanks once more completely with vinegar andrebound them. After heat setting the glue the string comes off andthe blank is clean and ready for a final light sanding. I have justcompleted 4 rods for my grandsons and used this method on all ofthem. I have been watching the list to see comments from othersregarding this tecnique. No one has commented. The idea ofeliminating the sanding away of the glue overcame my fear of thevinegar seeping into the glue joints and ruining the blanks. The 4rods came out without any glue lines so apparently my fears wereunfounded. I've talked to Harry and he has used this method on quitea number of rods with no ill effects. Anyone out there been usingthis method?Dave Norling --------------65BD9CE146BE6C90C52FF7F1 No. Don't use vinegar on URAC. Use Water.John ZShawn Pineo wrote:This method doesn't work for urac does it?? Shawnlars32 wrote: OctoberHarry Boyd wrote that after gluing and binding he cleaned the blank withwhite vinegar. In the morning he removed the string cleaned the blanksonce more completely with vinegar and rebound them. After heat settingthe glue the string comes off and the blank is clean and ready for a finallight sanding. I have just completed 4 rods for my grandsons and used thismethod on all of them. I have been watching the list to see comments fromothers regarding this tecnique. No one has commented. The idea ofeliminatingthe sanding away of the glue overcame my fear of the vinegar seeping intothe glue joints and ruining the blanks. The 4 rods came out without anyglue lines so apparently my fears were unfounded. I've talked to Harryand he has used this method on quite a number of rods with no ill effects.Anyone out there been using this method?DaveNorling --------------65BD9CE146BE6C90C52FF7F1-- from Fishnabug@aol.com Fri Mar 17 14:33:25 2000 Subject: 9' for a #3 or 4 Does anyone have a good light taper for a 9' for a DT3 or 4 line. I have the ones posted on the Taper Arc., Just curious what others are out there? Additionally, Where might I find U-Bond for gluing ferrules? David J. Maxey from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Mar 17 14:36:00 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:31:23 Subject: Lathe resource I presently use a small Taig lathe to turn grips, mount ferrules, sandnodes, etc. I'd like to start exploiting this tool's potential and makeferrules, small reels, etc. Does anyone know of a book which is theequivalent of "Metal Lathe for Dummies." I have zero machining experienceand all the resources and shop manuals I've seen assume I know more thanIdo. (Heck, I don't even know the names of the parts). The ideal book wouldbe geared to hobbyists, not machinists, and would describe how to createactual things. Thanks in advance, Richard from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Mar 17 14:56:15 2000 Subject: U-Bond easypoxy@compuserve.com, ATTN: Shannon That's how I got mine. --Rich from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Mar 17 16:16:27 2000 0000 2000 14:16:25 PST Subject: Re: Lathe resource - govt manual link Richard, Folks pointed me to this US govt manual which is pretty good. I havea bunch of lathe net sites that I need to organize and post someday. http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm Jerry --- Richard Nantel wrote:I presently use a small Taig lathe to turn grips, mount ferrules,sandnodes, etc. I'd like to start exploiting this tool's potential andmakeferrules, small reels, etc. Does anyone know of a book which is theequivalent of "Metal Lathe for Dummies." I have zero machiningexperienceand all the resources and shop manuals I've seen assume I know morethan Ido. (Heck, I don't even know the names of the parts). The idealbook wouldbe geared to hobbyists, not machinists, and would describe how tocreateactual things. Thanks in advance, Richard __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com from martinjensen@home.com Fri Mar 17 16:19:13 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP 0800 Subject: info on an ole Heddon boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF901B.B153A930" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF901B.B153A930 Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: have a friends rod I am looking for information on it. the normal things,value, rarity, etc. It is a Heddon #2354. Below that it says "Tempered Bamboo". It has aslightly swelled butt with black and gold (yellow?) wraps. Goldintermediatewraps. The guides have the black tipping on both sides of the guide footwrap also. Both tips are the same length. Looks like Nickel Silver ferruleswith a 2 serrated bands (not super Z style, the step-down (?) style. 3piece 9.5ft, 5.75 oz. Written on the "Floating Aluminum Rod Case" (someoneused a pen, this is not factory writing),is March 26,1931. It looks like original finish to me. The finish is in fair condition ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF901B.B153A930 Jensen = have a = looking for information on it. the normal things, value, rarity, etc.It is a = "Tempered Bamboo". It has a = also. Both tipsare = length. Looks like= ferrules with a = super Z style, the step-down = style. 3 piece =9.5ft, 5.75 oz. Written on the = (someone used a pen, this is not factory writing),is March 26,1931.It =looks like original finish to =me. The finish is in fair =condition ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF901B.B153A930-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Mar 17 17:00:46 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: PU wipe off Denatured alcohol works with the polyurethane glue I use, Gorilla Glue. No problems so far.Just don't light a match anywhere near the stuff and always store itoutside.BobBob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Mar 17 17:43:59 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: wrap finish Has anyone used the Gudebrod wrap finish with success? I have tried it ona demo rod with nylon wraps, and it does not seem to penetrate well. Looks much better on the smaller tip sections than on the butt wraps. I put on two coats with a rotating stand and a small fine brush. I felt like I put it on thick, but there are tiny little gaps. Is it any better on silk? Should I go back to my Helmsmen instead? Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dpizza@access1.net Fri Mar 17 18:11:42 2000 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A9A61D0C00A0; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:11:18 PDT Subject: test ?? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF902A.91D2CA00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF902A.91D2CA00 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF902A.91D2CA00 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF902A.91D2CA00-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Mar 17 18:46:07 2000 Subject: Re: HELP!!!!!!!!! Thanks to all, I got them off with no damage to the rod. from dpizza@access1.net Fri Mar 17 20:06:54 2000 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A4A74ACE0132; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:06:31 PDT Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF903A.A81DEE60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF903A.A81DEE60 unsubscribe rodmakers dpizza ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF903A.A81DEE60 dpizza ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF903A.A81DEE60-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Mar 17 20:19:15 2000 Subject: Re: Lathe resource Richard,Try Brownell's Gunsmith Supply. They carry some goodbooks on operating small lathes. If you don't have they're catalogget one. They have a lot of good stuff. 515-623-5401 Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Mar 17 20:27:23 2000 18:31:46 PST Subject: Re: info on an ole Heddon Martin, It sounds like a very early #35, which was Heddons first fly rod model. The #2354 is written in red scriptjust forward of the grip? I believe that is the serial number and the2354th fly rod made by Heddon. I have#1631 that I think was made in about 1927. It is a #35 Lt. 3/2 9' thatweighs 4.96 oz. according to a tinylabel on the grip. These were the very first fly rods that Heddonmanufactured. The tube label you describeis the very same as the one I have. Black tipping on both sides of theantique gold wraps with antique goldfull closely spaced intermediates. Look at the tip tops and you may findthe 1916 Perfection patent datestamped on the tube portion. The grip is a very sexy full wells and theseat is a tiny downlocking nickelsilver with a slide band and "Heddon" stamped on the bottom of the pocket.Mine doesn't have the script"Tempered Bamboo" like you describe on yours. The bamboo on mine hasbeen treated somehow, as it is notblonde but an even light !brown in color. Maybe the tempered designation was a new process in the1931 time frame of your rod. Mine still has the hanging tag string on the seat ring indicating it wasnever fished, but unfortunately as istypical on many Heddons, the varnish has gone soft. I wonder what theyused for a finish? Very ornatesignature wraps over the dramatically swelled bamboo just forward of thegrip and a little agate stripperguide. This rod is very light in the hand for a 9 footer and casts wonderfully. Michael Sinclair indicated to methat they do not have the collector value other rods do and was worthmaybe $250-$300. Given the quality andnostalgia, not to mention the casting characteristics I wouldn't sell mine. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Subject: info on an ole Heddon Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: have a friends rod I am looking for information on it. the normal things,value, rarity, etc. It is a Heddon #2354. Below that it says "Tempered Bamboo". It has aslightly swelled butt with black and gold (yellow?) wraps. Goldintermediatewraps. The guides have the black tipping on both sides of the guide footwrap also. Both tips are the same length. Looks like Nickel Silver ferruleswith a 2 serrated bands (not super Z style, the step-down (?) style. 3piece 9.5ft, 5.75 oz. Written on the "Floating Aluminum Rod Case" (someoneused a pen, this is not factory writing),is March 26,1931. It looks like original finish to me. The finish is in fair condition from dpizza@access1.net Fri Mar 17 20:39:07 2000 (SMTPD32-5.01) id AC351F3C00A0; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:38:45 PDT Subject: join boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF903F.28A1E060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF903F.28A1E060 subscribe rodmakers dpizza ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF903F.28A1E060 dpizza ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF903F.28A1E060-- from if6were9@bellsouth.net Fri Mar 17 20:49:35 2000 VAA16648; Subject: Re: Lathe resource boundary="------------5708CFBA6910CCBC404971E7" --------------5708CFBA6910CCBC404971E7 Have you checked out the book Sherline offers? It's (obviously) writtenwith the Sherline user in mind, but the blurb says it's for those with littleor no experience as well as the more experienced, plus it focuses on smallscale machining. If you are interested, here's where to find out moreaboutit. bookplug Richard Nantel wrote: I presently use a small Taig lathe to turn grips, mount ferrules, sandnodes, etc. I'd like to start exploiting this tool's potential and makeferrules, small reels, etc. Does anyone know of a book which is theequivalent of "Metal Lathe for Dummies." I have zero machiningexperienceand all the resources and shop manuals I've seen assume I know morethan Ido. (Heck, I don't even know the names of the parts). The ideal book wouldbe geared to hobbyists, not machinists, and would describe how to createactual things. Thanks in advance, Richard --------------5708CFBA6910CCBC404971E7 writtenwith the Sherline user in mind, but the blurb says it's for those withlittle or no experience as well as the more experienced, plus it focuses find out more about it. Richard Nantel wrote:I presently use a small Taig lathe to turn grips,mount ferrules, sandnodes, etc. I'd like to start exploiting this tool's potential andmakeferrules, small reels, etc. Does anyone know of a book which is theequivalent of "Metal Lathe for Dummies." I have zero machiningexperienceand all the resources and shop manuals I've seen assume I know morethan Ido. (Heck, I don't even know the names of the parts). The ideal bookwouldbe geared to hobbyists, not machinists, and would describe how tocreateactual things.Thanks in advance,Richard --------------5708CFBA6910CCBC404971E7-- from stpete@netten.net Fri Mar 17 21:17:08 2000 Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:22:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Nyatex Dave, I use this method with Epon with no ill effects. I usually remove thebinding after about 10 to 12 hours. I do not heat treat the epoxy, butI leave it alone (except for minor cold straightening) after cleaningwith vinegar for 3 days. Rick C. lars32 wrote: In October Harry Boyd wrote that after gluing and binding he cleanedthe blank with white vinegar. In the morning he removed the stringcleaned the blanks once more completely with vinegar and rebound them.After heat setting the glue the string comes off and the blank isclean and ready for a final light sanding. I have just completed 4rods for my grandsons and used this method on all of them. I have beenwatching the list to see comments from others regarding this tecnique.No one has commented. The idea of eliminating the sanding away of theglue overcame my fear of the vinegar seeping into the glue joints andruining the blanks. The 4 rods came out without any glue lines soapparently my fears were unfounded. I've talked to Harry and he hasused this method on quite a number of rods with no ill effects. Anyoneout there been using this method?Dave Norling from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Mar 17 22:25:12 2000 Subject: Re: Nyatex I, too, used vinegar with Shell Epon for a while. However, I now use a veryslightly water-moistened sponge wiped down the shaft a couple of times.This seems to do the trick equally well. The binder cord pulls right offthe next evening, and a very light sanding finishes the job. Wet sanding,as posted by a list member (Bob Nunley?) several months ago, does anextremely smooth job with far less sandpaper used.J. Snider At 09:15 PM 03/17/2000 -0600, Rick C. wrote:Dave, I use this method with Epon with no ill effects. I usually remove thebinding after about 10 to 12 hours. I do not heat treat the epoxy, butI leave it alone (except for minor cold straightening) after cleaningwith vinegar for 3 days. Rick C. lars32 wrote: In October Harry Boyd wrote that after gluing and binding he cleanedthe blank with white vinegar. In the morning he removed the stringcleaned the blanks once more completely with vinegar and reboundthem.After heat setting the glue the string comes off and the blank isclean and ready for a final light sanding. I have just completed 4rods for my grandsons and used this method on all of them. I have beenwatching the list to see comments from others regarding this tecnique.No one has commented. The idea of eliminating the sanding away of theglue overcame my fear of the vinegar seeping into the glue joints andruining the blanks. The 4 rods came out without any glue lines soapparently my fears were unfounded. I've talked to Harry and he hasused this method on quite a number of rods with no ill effects. Anyoneout there been using this method?Dave Norling from cphisey@neca.com Fri Mar 17 23:48:11 2000 Subject: Re: U-Bond There is a new e-mail for themEASYPOXY@JUNO.COMUsual disclaimers,etcCharles Hisey At 03:55 PM 03/17/2000 EST, you wrote: easypoxy@compuserve.com, ATTN: Shannon That's how I got mine. --Rich from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 18 01:08:41 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:08:34 -0800 Subject: RE: info on an ole Heddon thanks. The rod is at work right now but your description is prettyaccurate. The handle is the same. I may polish up the ferrules so that it isusable. Right now there is a bit of corrosion and you can't put the sectionstogether. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- MCDOWELL Subject: Re: info on an ole Heddon Martin, It sounds like a very early #35, which was Heddons first fly rod model. The#2354 is written in red script just forward of the grip? I believe that isthe serial number and the 2354th fly rod made by Heddon. I have #1631thatI think was made in about 1927. It is a #35 Lt. 3/2 9' that weighs 4.96 oz.according to a tiny label on the grip. These were the very first fly rodsthat Heddon manufactured. The tube label you describe is the very same asthe one I have. Black tipping on both sides of the antique gold wraps withantique gold full closely spaced intermediates. Look at the tip tops andyou may find the 1916 Perfection patent date stamped on the tube portion.The grip is a very sexy full wells and the seat is a tiny downlocking nickelsilver with a slide band and "Heddon" stamped on the bottom of the pocket.Mine doesn't have the script "Tempered Bamboo" like you describe on yours.The bamboo on mine has been treated somehow, as it is not blonde but anevenlight !brown in color. Maybe the tempered designation was a new process in the1931time frame of your rod. Mine still has the hanging tag string on the seat ring indicating it wasnever fished, but unfortunately as is typical on many Heddons, the varnishhas gone soft. I wonder what they used for a finish? Very ornatesignaturewraps over the dramatically swelled bamboo just forward of the grip andalittle agate stripper guide. This rod is very light in the hand for a 9 footer and casts wonderfully.Michael Sinclair indicated to me that they do not have the collector valueother rods do and was worth maybe $250-$300. Given the quality andnostalgia, not to mention the casting characteristics I wouldn't sell mine. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Subject: info on an ole Heddon Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: have a friends rod I am looking for information on it. the normal things,value, rarity, etc. It is a Heddon #2354. Below that it says "Tempered Bamboo". It has aslightly swelled butt with black and gold (yellow?) wraps. Goldintermediatewraps. The guides have the black tipping on both sides of the guide footwrap also. Both tips are the same length. Looks like Nickel Silver ferruleswith a 2 serrated bands (not super Z style, the step-down (?) style. 3piece 9.5ft, 5.75 oz. Written on the "Floating Aluminum Rod Case" (someoneused a pen, this is not factory writing),is March 26,1931. It looks like original finish to me. The finish is in fair condition from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 18 01:14:22 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP 0800 Subject: finding the grain in burl wood boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9066.723A4AB0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9066.723A4AB0 I recently bought some burl maple and I am having a bit of troubledetermining the direction of the grain. I want to cut it up into reel seatsand I don't want to cut across grain. I'm afraid I might have ruined italready as I "thought" I saw the growth rings on the ends of the wood and Icut accordingly. Now when I examine the face of the slabs I have cut, itlooks like I can see growth rings in the face of it meaning (to me at least)that I have cut across the grain. I have worked with figured maple beforeand I could find the grain alright in that piece but I am having a hardertime of it with this piece. Martin Jensen ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9066.723A4AB0 name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9066.723A4AB0-- from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Mar 18 06:31:14 2000 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: wrap finish Bob, I run hot water into an eight ounce glass and stick the bottle of gudebrodinit while I setup. I then put four or five drops in the bottom of a 35 mmfilmcanister that I set on a little stand that tilts it at 45*. I use a fairly soft sable brush and just float a thin smooth coat on. I willturn the rod 360 to look for bubbles and just touch them with the end ofthebrush to burst. I clean the brush in hot water and wipe it off between eachwrap. I use two coats of color preserver and four coats of varnish. Sand with1000grit before applying the last coat. Glass like finish on silk wraps. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO bob maulucci wrote:> Has anyone used the Gudebrod wrap finish withsuccess? I have tried it on ademo rod with nylon wraps, and it does not seem to penetrate well.Looksmuch better on the smaller tip sections than on the butt wraps. I put ontwo coats with a rotating stand and a small fine brush. I felt like I putit on thick, but there are tiny little gaps. Is it any better on silk?Should I go back to my Helmsmen instead? Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sat Mar 18 07:05:21 2000 Subject: Re: White Ink I use white ink in my Rapidograph on flamed rods and have found that "Dr.Ph. Martin's Pen-White" works quite well. It is opaque and is meant towrite on acetate. Dave On my darker flamed rods I have used Rapidograph white ink in aRapidographpen. Unlike the black India Ink used in these pens, however, the white inkwill smear easily (at least it does for me). Once the white ink is dry, Igently lay on a thin layer of varnish over the inscription using a small,blunt darning needle. Once this dries, use whatever finish/method youdesire.J. SniderAt 09:51 PM 03/16/2000 -0800, Robert Kope wrote:You should be able to get waterproof drafting ink in white (and othercolors) for Rapidograph pens at stores that carry drafting supplies. Igotsome at my local university bookstore. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 6:39 PMSubject: White Ink Anyone know what Edwards used on their rods with the white inkinscriptions?Any suggestions as to a comparable pen that is available these days?Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jlintvet@erols.com Sat Mar 18 07:53:09 2000 ([207.172.61.186] helo=compaq) Subject: Re: Lathe resource Richard,There is a book written by Joe Martin of Sherline (lathes) titled TabletopMachining. I know I found it really useful. It even shows how the bigmachines are made to make Sherlines. Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Lathe resource I presently use a small Taig lathe to turn grips, mount ferrules, sandnodes, etc. I'd like to start exploiting this tool's potential and makeferrules, small reels, etc. Does anyone know of a book which is theequivalent of "Metal Lathe for Dummies." I have zero machiningexperienceand all the resources and shop manuals I've seen assume I know morethan Ido. (Heck, I don't even know the names of the parts). The ideal book wouldbe geared to hobbyists, not machinists, and would describe how to createactual things. Thanks in advance, Richard from mep@mint.net Sat Mar 18 08:30:12 2000 Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:29:57 -0500 Subject: Re: wrap finish I have used it and you are correct it doesn't penetrate. Won't penetrate onsilk either. I know because I removed the guides on rod I made. They cameoffwith ease not a mark or any adhesion on the blank. I used it over a colorpreserver. It has a tendency to discolor and peel over the years as well. Isimply use a diluted marine varnish. I use Epifanes gloss,it is a phenolicbased varnish heavy on the uv blockers.If you use a color preserver thiswillnot penetrate either. If you don't you'll get what I think is very pleasanttranslucent effect. Have rods 5 years old heavily fished with no finishproblems. Mike bob maulucci wrote: Has anyone used the Gudebrod wrap finish with success? I have tried iton ademo rod with nylon wraps, and it does not seem to penetrate well.Looksmuch better on the smaller tip sections than on the butt wraps. I put ontwo coats with a rotating stand and a small fine brush. I felt like I putit on thick, but there are tiny little gaps. Is it any better on silk?Should I go back to my Helmsmen instead? Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat Mar 18 09:25:02 2000 Subject: Re: finding the grain in burl wood Martin, What gives burl it's interesting figure is it's grain or lack thereof. However, what makes the burl so beautiful is also it's downfall. Withoutan organized grain it doesn't have much strength. If you look at any ofthe reel seat manufacturers when the list burl woods they always say"stabilized". That is because the wood is impregnated to bond the fiberstogether. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: finding the grain in burl wood I recently bought some burl maple and I am having a bit of troubledetermining the direction of the grain. I want to cut it up into reelseatsand I don't want to cut across grain. I'm afraid I might have ruined italready as I "thought" I saw the growth rings on the ends of the wood andIcut accordingly. Now when I examine the face of the slabs I have cut, itlooks like I can see growth rings in the face of it meaning (to me atleast)that I have cut across the grain. I have worked with figured maple beforeand I could find the grain alright in that piece but I am having a hardertime of it with this piece. Martin Jensen from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Mar 18 09:37:38 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: RE: wrap finish Are we talking about the 840 wrapfinish? I've been given a bottle og the 822 rodfinish and tried it. It flows readilyand I agree it does not penetrateas well as PU varnish. I just un-wrapped a couple of test wraps, showingthis. A list-member told me the 822flowed better than the 840. The 822 rodfinish, used as a wrap finish has one thing going for it: It doesnot darken the darker silks asmuch as varnish. Gudebrod Colour Garnet (like a bottle of claret) looksbeautifull when finished with the 822.If more penetration is wanted, thinning with water might be the way togo. Comments, please? regards,Carsten from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Sat Mar 18 12:36:05 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Silk Fy Lines Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Mar 18 12:54:00 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Silk Fy Lines Check out my website. I have two pages on reconditioning silk fly lines...Reed Curry wrote one very detailed one that most rave about... They are under Silk Fly Line Recond... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Subject: Silk Fy LinesImportance: High Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B from bob@downandacross.com Sat Mar 18 13:26:24 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines I redid mine as per Reed Curry.Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off after aboutan hour. Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Put sometung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finish on as theline passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the second bag to dry coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc. Dress withMucillin.Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote:Can anyone on the list please give me adviceon how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from rcurry@webryders.com Sat Mar 18 13:37:56 2000 mamabear.webryders.net(Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 593- 58620U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:40:40 - 0500 Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines boundary="------------3B8C8E79260175E816B64A08" --------------3B8C8E79260175E816B64A08 Bob,I really think using solvents such as alcohol is more expensive anddangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines'). The baking sodamethod is far easier and does a better job, IMHO.I still like the Formby's Tung Oil Varnish, but others have had goodsuccess in mixing a small amount of tung oil with spar varnish. Thatmight be cheaper.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: I redid mine as per Reed Curry.Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off afterabout an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Putsome tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finish onas the line passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the secondbag to dry for a couple hours. Repeat four or five times until theline has a nice coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc.Dress with Mucillin.Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to lookafterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------3B8C8E79260175E816B64A08 Bob, more expensive and dangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines').The baking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO. others have had good success in mixing a small amount of tung oil withspar varnish. That might be cheaper.Best regards,Reedbob maulucci wrote: Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off afterabout an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Putsome tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finish on asthe line passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the second bag todry for a couple hours. Repeat four or five times until the line has anice coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc. Dress withMucillin.BobAt 06:37 PM 3/18/00 - 0800, you wrote:Can anyone on the list please give me adviceon how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated.Thanks......Paul B BobMaulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------3B8C8E79260175E816B64A08-- from bob@downandacross.com Sat Mar 18 13:56:59 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines Hi Reed:Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying toanswer Paul in a bit of haste. Sorry to all. Your method was to use thebaking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcohol method onsomeone else's recommendation, but there really isn't a need once you trythe baking soda. I should not try to post after not sleeping. Was the mixof baking soda 1/3 box to a gallon? I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot.Best regards,Bob At 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote:Bob, expensive and dangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines'). Thebaking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO. have had good success in mixing a small amount of tung oil with sparvarnish. That might be cheaper. Best regards, Reed bob maulucci wrote: Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off after aboutan hour. Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Put sometung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finish on as theline passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the second bag to dry coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc. Dress withMucillin. Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me adviceon how best to look after and rejuvinate silk fly lines. I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume )mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a little sticky/tacky. Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B Bob Maulucci ================================================== downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 18 14:43:01 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:42:56 -0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: RE: finding the grain in burl wood My main concern was that.....here's what I am trying to avoid. I don't knowhow else to put it. A few years ago when I started making reel seats, I hada piece of oak and thought that it might look nice. Then I got a "brilliant" across grain and it would show the end pattern and have a nice distinctivelook. Kind of a "poor mans" burl. Well the end result was that the patternlooked like end grain, not very pleasing at all (to me). We won't even getinto the fact about the problems with moisture entering just that mucheasier, and the fact that it wasn't strong. (I don't think that I am worriedabout the strength because the core is going to be a pretty big hunk ofsolid bamboo!) That is where the strength will come from. I am afteraesthetics only here. Of course it has to work properly also. I just don'twant the burl to look like end grain. It is sounding like I probably won'thave that problem so I should be OK. About stabilizing. I am stabilizing thewood in Pentacryl. I had a big block all waxed just sitting at work and Inoticed that it was starting to crack. Too warm I'm sure. I should havejusttaken it home and left it in the garage, fairly cool, for a year, but I cutit up and am going to stick it in the Pentacryl for about a week. Thanks, thanks to all, I am getting a lot of good advice here. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: finding the grain in burl wood Martin, What gives burl it's interesting figure is it's grain or lack thereof. However, what makes the burl so beautiful is also it's downfall. Withoutan organized grain it doesn't have much strength. If you look at any ofthe reel seat manufacturers when the list burl woods they always say"stabilized". That is because the wood is impregnated to bond the fiberstogether. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: finding the grain in burl wood I recently bought some burl maple and I am having a bit of troubledetermining the direction of the grain. I want to cut it up into reelseatsand I don't want to cut across grain. I'm afraid I might have ruined italready as I "thought" I saw the growth rings on the ends of the wood andIcut accordingly. Now when I examine the face of the slabs I have cut, itlooks like I can see growth rings in the face of it meaning (to me atleast)that I have cut across the grain. I have worked with figured maple beforeand I could find the grain alright in that piece but I am having a hardertime of it with this piece. Martin Jensen from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat Mar 18 15:22:24 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Adjusting forms In the archives it talks about setting the forms and says Gap = (depthdesired) - (depth closed) / sin 60. I never took trig so could one of youmath majors tell me what the sin 60 is equal to?ThanksErnie from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Sat Mar 18 17:19:46 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Silk Fly Line Information To the list meembers who contacted me with information on how to lookafter and restore the two 'new' silk fly lines I have just acquired Iwould like to say a big thank you !Special thanks to Messrs Curry,Lee and Maulucci.Thanks again everyone.......Paul B from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 18 17:21:13 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AEC5F810284; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:18:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Adjusting forms Ernie,.8660;-)Art At 01:18 PM 03/18/2000 -0800, Ernie Harrison wrote:In the archives it talks about setting the forms and says Gap = (depthdesired) - (depth closed) / sin 60. I never took trig so could one of youmath majors tell me what the sin 60 is equal to?ThanksErnie from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Mar 18 22:08:15 2000 Subject: Paul Young taper anomaly A PHY "Texas General" I was measuring over varnish today does theweirdest thing between 55" and 70" ( from the tip with rod assembled). It actually decreases from .293 at 60 inches to .283 at 65 inches. 70 inches is a respectable .297.Passing an open dial caliper over this section shows the lump-it's really there. I don't think it's in the varnish as there is no sign of a run and it's consistant on all three measurments across the flats.I've not come across a taper yet that does this.(I hope you're reading this Wayne)The rod casts a 7 headstart line to beat the band-and I'm thinking ofmaking a bonefish rod... Rob Hoffhines from rcurry@webryders.com Sat Mar 18 22:17:44 2000 mamabear.webryders.net(Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 593- 58620U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:20:25 - 0500 Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines boundary="------------15E78B9F9CB76F9A94FC44A6" --------------15E78B9F9CB76F9A94FC44A6 Bob,Yup, 1/3 box to a gallon of warm water seems to work well.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Hi Reed:Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying toanswer Paul in a bit of haste. Sorry to all. Your method was to usethe baking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcohol methodon someone else's recommendation, but there really isn't a need onceyou try the baking soda. I should not try to post after not sleeping.Was the mix of baking soda 1/3 box to a gallon?I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot.Best regards,Bob At 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote: Bob,I really think using solvents such as alcohol is more expensiveand dangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines'). Thebaking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO.I still like the Formby's Tung Oil Varnish, but others have hadgood success in mixing a small amount of tung oil with spar varnish.That might be cheaper.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: I redid mine as per Reed Curry.Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off afterabout an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Putsome tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finishon as the line passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in thesecond bag to dry for a couple hours. Repeat four or five timesuntil the line has a nice coating. Then I think some people polishit with talc. Dress with Mucillin.Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to lookafterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( Iassume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just alittlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------15E78B9F9CB76F9A94FC44A6 Bob, work well.Best regards,Reedbob maulucci wrote: Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying toanswer Paul in a bit of haste. Sorry to all. Your method was to use thebaking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcohol method onsomeoneelse's recommendation, but there really isn't a need once you try thebakingsoda. I should not try to post after not sleeping. Was the mix of bakingsoda 1/3 box to a gallon?I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot.Best regards,BobAt 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote:Bob, more expensive and dangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines').The baking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO. others have had good success in mixing a small amount of tung oil withspar varnish. That might be cheaper.Best regards,Reedbob maulucci wrote: Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off afterabout an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Putsome tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finish on asthe line passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the second bag todry for a couple hours. Repeat four or five times until the line has anice coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc. Dress withMucillin.BobAt 06:37 PM 3/18/00 - 0800, you wrote:Can anyone on the list please give me adviceon how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated.Thanks......Paul B BobMaulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com BobMaulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------15E78B9F9CB76F9A94FC44A6-- from rcurry@webryders.com Sat Mar 18 22:23:07 2000 mamabear.webryders.net(Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 593- 58620U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:25:53 -0500 Subject: Attachments All,What is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, and several list members have requested information that I couldreadily scan in from old books. Is it okay to send it to the list?Best regards,Reed from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 18 23:14:01 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:13:53 -0800 Subject: RE: Attachments IMHO My personal thoughts on this. I don't know if there is any sort ofpolicy or not.My suggestion is to send it to only those people requesting it.Why? If you have a dial up connection to the Internet (most people do) thenit could easily take 10 minutes or more to download a 1 MB attachment.Justthe one message! If you didn't want this it would be exasperating to saytheleast! Also depending on how the attachment is sent, and the receivingpersons software, a lot of the people receiving may not be able to open itonce they have spent the 10 minutes or so downloading it. A furtherexasperation.Also check the size of the attachment you are sending first. If therecipient is using a Hotmail address they won't even be able to receive a 1MB attachment as that is the Hotmail limit. Overhead probably will take atleast 200k on a Hotmail e-mail address. Try to keep the file size down byscanning in low resolution. for viewing on a computer, 100 DPI worksprettygood for me and will produce really fine pictures.Personally I have a cable modem and can download at a pretty decent clip,soit really won't bother me one way or the other, but when I had my modem(itwas a 56K operating at very respectable connection speeds) it wouldroutinely take me 10 minutes to download a 1 MB file that someone wassending me. If I wanted the file that was fine, but if I didn't then I couldsee myself getting a bit cranky. (G)Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Attachments All,What is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, and several list members have requested information that I couldreadily scan in from old books. Is it okay to send it to the list?Best regards,Reed from rcurry@webryders.com Sat Mar 18 23:17:16 2000 mamabear.webryders.net(Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 593- 58620U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:19:52 - 0500 Subject: Re: Attachments Martin,The question is academic, as when I attempted it a few minutes agowith a49K TIFF CCITT Group IV (the most highly compressed B&W format), thelistprocessor rejected it as too large.Oh, well.Best regards,Reed Martin Jensen wrote: IMHO My personal thoughts on this. I don't know if there is any sort ofpolicy or not.My suggestion is to send it to only those people requesting it.Why? If you have a dial up connection to the Internet (most people do)thenit could easily take 10 minutes or more to download a 1 MB attachment.Justthe one message! If you didn't want this it would be exasperating to saytheleast! Also depending on how the attachment is sent, and the receivingpersons software, a lot of the people receiving may not be able to openitonce they have spent the 10 minutes or so downloading it. A furtherexasperation. from martinjensen@home.com Sat Mar 18 23:58:46 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:58:42 -0800 Subject: RE: Attachments No kidding? I didn't know that. BTW that would have most likely been apretty acceptable size to most people I would think. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Attachments Martin,The question is academic, as when I attempted it a few minutes agowitha49K TIFF CCITT Group IV (the most highly compressed B&W format), thelistprocessor rejected it as too large.Oh, well.Best regards,Reed Martin Jensen wrote: IMHO My personal thoughts on this. I don't know if there is any sort ofpolicy or not.My suggestion is to send it to only those people requesting it.Why? If you have a dial up connection to the Internet (most people do)thenit could easily take 10 minutes or more to download a 1 MB attachment.Justthe one message! If you didn't want this it would be exasperating to saytheleast! Also depending on how the attachment is sent, and the receivingpersons software, a lot of the people receiving may not be able to openitonce they have spent the 10 minutes or so downloading it. A furtherexasperation. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Mar 19 05:45:25 2000 Subject: Internal damage vs appearence of bamboo List,Got a newbie question for anyone who is in the 'know' !First off, I am aware that worm holes are damaging to bamboo andthereforerender that piece worthless for rod making.Now, while selecting a culm for my newest attempt, I noticed three typesofcosmetic 'damage' to the culm, which, although present don't SEEM toeffectthe strength of the bamboo--this is what my question is referring to. Thefist cosmetic problem are the so called water spots, the second type isseenon the enamel as a rust colored looking area which does penetrate a littleinto the fibers, and the last is a dark area which looks like a fungus andthe darkening effects fully penetrate the wall of the culm (btw- this isdefinately not caused by prior heating of the culm to straighten it beforeshipment).Now, can anyone guide me as to which, if any, of these problems shouldalertme to toss out that section of the culm from a strength point of view?I would really appreciate some help with this one !!!!!Thanks, Mike from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 19 06:56:07 2000 Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:55:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Attachments Reed,the list won't accept most things larger than text as I foundout when trying to send photos. Having a high speed digital line, I oftenforget that the guy on the other end may only be running a 56K modem oreven less (yes they are still out there).Personally, I love to receive photos and info and because speed isnot a problem, if I don't like what is there I don't feel ripped off. Icould see how other people might not share my enthusiasm though.I think probably the best way would be just to post that you have acertain photo or article and let those who do want it ask for it to be Between everyone on the list, think of the resources we have! Imean, at the risk of being stoned senseless or condemned to use agraphite rod for all eternity, I have been at this for 3 years and I'venever even seen the Garrison/Carmichael book. Yet between the list andother people on the internet I have received lots of valuable informationincluding snippets of wisdom from G/C book.(P.S. I finally caved in andbought a copy this weekend on e-bay though! Cost me a fortune evenwithoutthe exchange rate.) ;^)Shawn Reed Curry wrote: All,What is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, and several list members have requested information that I couldreadily scan in from old books. Is it okay to send it to the list?Best regards,Reed from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 19 07:42:25 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines E899A732A2ADA5C64D5D96D4" --------------E899A732A2ADA5C64D5D96D4 Hi Folks,I am going to buy a new Phoenix Silk line. The rod a want it for is aPer Brandin hollow built 71/2' #4/5. I fish a DT 5 on it with aCortland 444. Someone told me the silks are a little heavier. I'm notsure weather to get the 4 or the 5 and have no way of trying them out.Any advise would be greatly appreciated....thanks. Rich Colo Reed Curry wrote: Bob,Yup, 1/3 box to a gallon of warm water seems to work well.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Hi Reed:Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying toanswer Paul in a bit of haste. Sorry to all. Your method was to usethe baking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcohol methodon someone else's recommendation, but there really isn't a need onceyou try the baking soda. I should not try to post after notsleeping. Was the mix of baking soda 1/3 box to a gallon?I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot.Best regards,Bob At 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote: Bob,I really think using solvents such as alcohol is more expensiveand dangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines'). Thebaking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO.I still like the Formby's Tung Oil Varnish, but others have hadgood success in mixing a small amount of tung oil with sparvarnish. That might be cheaper.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: I redid mine as per Reed Curry.Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right offafter about an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left.Put some tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe thefinish on as the line passes from one bag to the next. Leave itin the second bag to dry for a couple hours. Repeat four or fivetimes until the line has a nice coating. Then I think some peoplepolish it with talc. Dress with Mucillin.Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best tolook afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( Iassume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just alittlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------E899A732A2ADA5C64D5D96D4 Hi Folks, Rich Colo Reed Curry wrote: work well.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying toanswer Paul in a bit of haste. Sorry to all. Your method was to use thebaking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcohol method onsomeoneelse's recommendation, but there really isn't a need once you try thebakingsoda. I should not try to post after not sleeping. Was the mix of bakingsoda 1/3 box to a gallon?I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot.Best regards,Bob At 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote:Bob, more expensive and dangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines').The baking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO. others have had good success in mixing a small amount of tung oil withspar varnish. That might be cheaper.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off afterabout an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Putsome tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finish on asthe line passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the second bag todry for a couple hours. Repeat four or five times until the line has anice coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc. Dress withMucillin.Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote:Can anyone on the list please give me adviceon how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul BBobMaulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com BobMaulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------E899A732A2ADA5C64D5D96D4-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 19 08:14:48 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: attachments HI Reed:Why not post to the Web and send the URL to the list? I could hostsome stuff for you if you don't have anywhere to put it. Some people havebeen using eBoard lately like Harry B. and Shawn with niceresults.Regards, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 19 08:34:46 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:23:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Attachments boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF917E.42114C80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF917E.42114C80 Just convert it to 72 DPI, and save it as a jpeg, and you'll be =surprised at how things improve. I had the same problem when I first =tried to send attachments. GMA Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Attachments Martin,The question is academic, as when I attempted it a few minutes ago =with a49K TIFF CCITT Group IV (the most highly compressed B&W format), the =listprocessor rejected it as too large.Oh, well.Best regards,Reed Martin Jensen wrote: IMHO My personal thoughts on this. I don't know if there is any sort =ofpolicy or not.My suggestion is to send it to only those people requesting it.Why? If you have a dial up connection to the Internet (most people =do) thenit could easily take 10 minutes or more to download a 1 MB =attachment. Justthe one message! If you didn't want this it would be exasperating to =say theleast! Also depending on how the attachment is sent, and the =receivingpersons software, a lot of the people receiving may not be able to =open itonce they have spent the 10 minutes or so downloading it. A furtherexasperation. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF917E.42114C80 Just convert it to 72 DPI, and save it as a jpeg, and = surprised at how things improve. I had the same problem when I first = send attachments. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Curry Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: Attachments academic, = I attempted it a few minutes ago with a49K TIFF CCITT Group IV = highly compressed B&W format), the listprocessor rejected it = = message! If you didn't want this it would be exasperating to say = least! Also depending on how the attachment is sent, and the = ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF917E.42114C80-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 19 08:34:47 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:23:32 -0600 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Attachments boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF917D.F3C0C6A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF917D.F3C0C6A0 Yes, Martin has it right. It also helps to send all photos as jpegs, and =I'm told by the computer gurus, that 72 dpi, is the best image density. GMA Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:13 PMSubject: RE: Attachments IMHO My personal thoughts on this. I don't know if there is any sort =ofpolicy or not.My suggestion is to send it to only those people requesting it.Why? If you have a dial up connection to the Internet (most people do) =thenit could easily take 10 minutes or more to download a 1 MB attachment. =Justthe one message! If you didn't want this it would be exasperating to =say theleast! Also depending on how the attachment is sent, and the receivingpersons software, a lot of the people receiving may not be able to =open itonce they have spent the 10 minutes or so downloading it. A furtherexasperation.Also check the size of the attachment you are sending first. If therecipient is using a Hotmail address they won't even be able to =receive a 1MB attachment as that is the Hotmail limit. Overhead probably will =take atleast 200k on a Hotmail e-mail address. Try to keep the file size down =byscanning in low resolution. for viewing on a computer, 100 DPI works =prettygood for me and will produce really fine pictures.Personally I have a cable modem and can download at a pretty decent =clip, soit really won't bother me one way or the other, but when I had my =modem (itwas a 56K operating at very respectable connection speeds) it wouldroutinely take me 10 minutes to download a 1 MB file that someone wassending me. If I wanted the file that was fine, but if I didn't then I =couldsee myself getting a bit cranky. (G)Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 8:26 PM Subject: Attachments All,What is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, and several list members have requested information that I couldreadily scan in from old books. Is it okay to send it to the list?Best regards,Reed ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF917D.F3C0C6A0 Yes, Martin has it right. It also helps to send all photos = jpegs, and I'm told by the computer gurus, that 72 dpi, is the best = density. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Jensen Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 = PMSubject: RE: AttachmentsIMHO My personal thoughts on this. I don't know if = sort ofpolicy or not.My suggestion is to send it to only those = requesting it.Why? If you have a dial up connection to the = people do) thenit could easily take 10 minutes or more to download = attachment. Justthe one message! If you didn't want this it would = exasperating to say theleast! Also depending on how the attachment= receiving may not be able to open itonce they have spent the 10 = so downloading it. A furtherexasperation.Also check the size = attachment you are sending first. If therecipient is using a = address they won't even be able to receive a 1MB attachment as = Hotmail limit. Overhead probably will take atleast 200k on a = resolution. for viewing on a computer, 100 DPI works prettygood = will produce really fine pictures.Personally I have a cable modem = download at a pretty decent clip, soit really won't bother me one = the other, but when I had my modem (itwas a 56K operating at respectable connection speeds) it wouldroutinely take me 10 = download a 1 MB file that someone wassending me. If I wanted the = was fine, but if I didn't then I couldsee myself getting a bit = (G)Martin Jensen-----Original Message-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= Behalf Of Reed CurrySent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 8:26 RodmakersSubject: = is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, = several list members have requested information that I = regards,Reed ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF917D.F3C0C6A0-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 19 08:43:28 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:43:20 Subject: RE: Attachments In my opinion, the best possible solution is simply to upload the picturesto a site somewhere (many places offer free space on the web) and simplyinclude the URL and the size of the file in your e-mail. http://pages.infinit.net/rnantel/rainbow1.jpg (64K) The image needs to be in either jpg, or gif format so you may need toconvert it from the tiff file your scanner probably generates. Use jpgformat for photo quality images, and gif format for line art and simplygraphics. Using this method, people can simply click on the URL to see the picture ifthey wish. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:26 PM Subject: Attachments All,What is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, and several list members have requested information that I couldreadily scan in from old books. Is it okay to send it to the list?Best regards,Reed from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 19 08:49:59 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:49:16 Subject: Cane Rod Maker "Russ Lavigne (E-mail)" Hello Rodmakers, A colleague on the Atlantic Salmon list is looking for info on a rodbuilder named W.P. Morton. Any help would be most welcomed. Please seebelow: "Hello fellow listers,a friend of mine just aquired some cane rods that are signed:W.P. Morton, Moncton, N.B. Can anyone tell me anything about Mr Morton and his rods? Larry Shortt" from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 19 09:11:57 2000 Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:11:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Internal damage vs appearence of bamboo Mike Shaffer wrote: List,Got a newbie question for anyone who is in the 'know' !First off, I am aware that worm holes are damaging to bamboo andthereforerender that piece worthless for rod making.Now, while selecting a culm for my newest attempt, I noticed threetypes ofcosmetic 'damage' to the culm, which, although present don't SEEM toeffectthe strength of the bamboo--this is what my question is referring to.Thefist cosmetic problem are the so called water spots, the second type isseenon the enamel as a rust colored looking area which does penetrate alittleinto the fibers, and the last is a dark area which looks like a fungus andthe darkening effects fully penetrate the wall of the culm (btw- this isdefinately not caused by prior heating of the culm to straighten it beforeshipment).Now, can anyone guide me as to which, if any, of these problems shouldalertme to toss out that section of the culm from a strength point of view?I would really appreciate some help with this one !!!!!Thanks, Mike Doc,In a hurry so excuse the brief response. One and two, no structuralproblems. Number three -- throw the culm away. IIMHO,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from rcurry@webryders.com Sun Mar 19 09:13:28 2000 mamabear.webryders.net(Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 593- 58620U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:16:01 - 0500 Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines boundary="------------DF7DF37ED16CE25C7CD93A1B" --------------DF7DF37ED16CE25C7CD93A1B Rich,Chris Bogart should answer this, he has Phoenix lines in variousweights.The problem is not that a 5wt Phoenix will be heavier than a 5wtplastic line, since both weigh the same number of grains; the issue isthat the reduced diameter of the silk (thus, decreased air resistance)might allow you to step down to a 4wt. comfortably. But on the otherhand, it might just allow you to put less effort into your casting sinceyou are not throwing around a [Personal Note: refrain from using remarkslike "bloated sausage casing" to describe Cortland lines] .Best regards,Reed Richard Colo wrote: Hi Folks,I am going to buy a new Phoenix Silk line. The rod a want it for is aPer Brandin hollow built 71/2' #4/5. I fish a DT 5 on it with aCortland 444. Someone told me the silks are a little heavier. I'mnot sure weather to get the 4 or the 5 and have no way of trying themout. Any advise would be greatly appreciated....thanks. Rich Colo Reed Curry wrote: Bob,Yup, 1/3 box to a gallon of warm water seems to work well.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Hi Reed:Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was tryingto answer Paul in a bit of haste. Sorry to all. Your method was touse the baking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcoholmethod on someone else's recommendation, but there really isn't aneed once you try the baking soda. I should not try to post afternot sleeping. Was the mix of baking soda 1/3 box to a gallon?I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot.Best regards,Bob At 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote: Bob,I really think using solvents such as alcohol is moreexpensive and dangerous to the user's health (as well as thelines'). The baking soda method is far easier and does a betterjob, IMHO.I still like the Formby's Tung Oil Varnish, but others havehad good success in mixing a small amount of tung oil with sparvarnish. That might be cheaper.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: I redid mine as per Reed Curry.Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right offafter about an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left.Put some tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe thefinish on as the line passes from one bag to the next. Leave itin the second bag to dry for a couple hours. Repeat four orfive times until the line has a nice coating. Then I think somepeople polish it with talc. Dress with Mucillin.Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best tolook afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( Iassume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just alittlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------DF7DF37ED16CE25C7CD93A1B Rich, lines in various weights. heavierthan a 5wt plastic line, since both weigh the same number of grains; theissue is that the reduced diameter of the silk (thus, decreased airresistance)might allow you to step down to a 4wt. comfortably. But on the other hand,it might just allow you to put less effort into your casting since youare not throwing around a [Personal Note: refrain from using remarks like"bloated sausage casing" to describe Cortland lines] .Best regards,ReedRichard Colo wrote: Rich ColoReed Curry wrote: work well.Best regards,Reedbob maulucci wrote: Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying toanswer Paul in a bit of haste. Sorry to all. Your method was to use thebaking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcohol method onsomeoneelse's recommendation, but there really isn't a need once you try thebakingsoda. I should not try to post after not sleeping. Was the mix of bakingsoda 1/3 box to a gallon?I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot.Best regards,BobAt 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote:Bob, more expensive and dangerous to the user's health (as well as the lines').The baking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO. others have had good success in mixing a small amount of tung oil withspar varnish. That might be cheaper.Best regards,Reedbob maulucci wrote: Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off afterabout an hour.Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Putsome tung oil (Reed uses Formby's) on a cloth and wipe the finish on asthe line passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the second bag todry for a couple hours. Repeat four or five times until the line has anice coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc. Dress withMucillin.BobAt 06:37 PM 3/18/00 - 0800, you wrote:Can anyone on the list please give me adviceon how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated.Thanks......Paul BBob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------DF7DF37ED16CE25C7CD93A1B-- from rcurry@webryders.com Sun Mar 19 09:47:20 2000 mamabear.webryders.net(Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 593- 58620U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:50:01 - 0500 Subject: Re: Attachments - with apologies for digression boundary="------------71F694F9024BC2780B1955E4" --------------71F694F9024BC2780B1955E4 George,Actually, for black and white scans, CCITT Group IV is 10 times morecompact than JPEG; of course you would expect so, since it was developed had to write translators to/ from most of the major imaging formats,heck, I even developed a very concise imaging format for one company.That said (and it probably sounds like "you don't have to teach mydog to suck eggs") I believe you are absolutely right about puttingfuture scans on a web page, I'll do that immediately. My apologies toall for this Attachment thread.But for those that assumed that I have a cable modem, DSL, or even33K; alas, I have to go down to the street and pump the bits into abucket. In our town of 800, we don't rate an offramp from theinformation superhighway, just a bumpy, rutted, bicycle path. Yes, thegreen-eyed monster is well, I envy every packet you get and Ilost...sigh.Best regards,Reed nobler wrote: Just convert it to 72 DPI, and save it as a jpeg, and you'll besurprised at how things improve. I had the same problem when I firsttried to send attachments. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Reed Curry Cc: RodmakersSent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: AttachmentsMartin,The question is academic, as when I attempted it a fewminutes ago with a49K TIFF CCITT Group IV (the most highly compressed B&Wformat), the listprocessor rejected it as too large.Oh, well.Best regards,Reed --------------71F694F9024BC2780B1955E4 George, IV is 10 times more compact than JPEG; of course you would expect so,sinceit was developed for FAX transmissions. Back when I specialized incomputergraphics, I had to write translators to/ from most of the major imagingformats, heck, I even developed a very concise imaging format for onecompany. have to teach my dog to suck eggs") I believe you are absolutely right My apologies to all for this Attachment thread. modem,DSL, or even 33K; alas, I have to go down to the street and pump the bitsinto a bucket. In our town of 800, we don't rate an offramp from theinformationsuperhighway, just a bumpy, rutted, bicycle path. Yes, the green-eyedmonsteris well, I envy every packet you get and I lost...sigh.Best regards,Reednobler wrote: Just convert it to 72 DPI, andsave it as a jpeg, and you'll be surprised at how things improve. I hadthe same problem when I first tried to send ----- Original Message ----- From:ReedCurry Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:19PM Subject: Re: Attachments a few minutes ago with a49K TIFF CCITT Group IV (the most highly compressed B&Wformat),the listprocessor rejected it as too large. Best regards,Reed --------------71F694F9024BC2780B1955E4-- from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 19 09:51:27 2000 Subject: Re: Paul Young taper anomaly Hi Rob,The Paul Young taper detail you've discovered is not an anomaly for histaper designs. He is known for what I'll call the pinched waist designwherethe taper in the butt section decreases or flattens out in the area ahead ofthe hand grasp. My thinking is that this feature makes the whole upperpartof the rod section flex a little more and feels like it is leveraging thecast for you. Many people like this type action.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Paul Young taper anomaly A PHY "Texas General" I was measuring over varnish today does theweirdestthing between 55" and 70" ( from the tip with rod assembled). It actuallydecreases from .293 at 60 inches to .283 at 65 inches. 70 inches is arespectable .297.Passing an open dial caliper over this section shows thelump-it's really there. I don't think it's in the varnish as there is nosignof a run and it's consistant on all three measurments across the flats.I've not come across a taper yet that does this.(I hope you're reading this Wayne)The rod casts a 7 headstart line to beat the band-and I'm thinking ofmakinga bonefish rod... Rob Hoffhines from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 19 10:03:33 2000 Subject: Re: Attachments Hi Reed,As I understand the stricture it comes in three ways: First the posts aretobe relevant to the subject of rod making and strong language, spam andflaming (whatever that is) are not welcome. Secondly there is a size limit(in bytes) that prevents much in the way of scanned photos from beingpostedto the list however they can be sent to individuals. Third, commercialactivities are to be kept as private as possible.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Attachments All,What is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, and several list members have requested information that I couldreadily scan in from old books. Is it okay to send it to the list?Best regards,Reed from Bamboomaker@aol.com Sun Mar 19 10:06:05 2000 Subject: Quad node spacing & questions Hello, I'm starting my first quad. I though I'd forward a few quad questions thatI didn't find in the archives. What is the preferred method for node spacing in quads? 2 x 2 vs 1-3-2-4 vs 1-2-3-4? Some makers 'break' the edges of the quad in the final product, whileothers leave the 90 degree corner sharp - Is that a matter of cosmeticpreference, or does it affect the action or 'tuning' of the rod? Where can I get a die or ?tapered quad rod to square the end of theferrules? Thanks in advance from a quad newbee. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 19 10:07:58 2000 Subject: Re: Internal damage vs appearence of bamboo Hi Mike,I'm in agreement with Harry on this one. The first two cases are cosmetic.On the third one I prefer not to use the areas where the cane has turneddark clear through and is usually at the nodes.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Internal damage vs appearence of bamboo List,Got a newbie question for anyone who is in the 'know' !First off, I am aware that worm holes are damaging to bamboo andthereforerender that piece worthless for rod making.Now, while selecting a culm for my newest attempt, I noticed threetypesofcosmetic 'damage' to the culm, which, although present don't SEEM toeffectthe strength of the bamboo--this is what my question is referring to.Thefist cosmetic problem are the so called water spots, the second type isseenon the enamel as a rust colored looking area which does penetrate alittleinto the fibers, and the last is a dark area which looks like a fungus andthe darkening effects fully penetrate the wall of the culm (btw- this isdefinately not caused by prior heating of the culm to straighten it beforeshipment).Now, can anyone guide me as to which, if any, of these problems shouldalertme to toss out that section of the culm from a strength point of view?I would really appreciate some help with this one !!!!!Thanks, Mike from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Mar 19 10:11:01 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195) boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963424=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963424=_=_=_ Richard Go for the DT5 Silk line - I have had long talks with Per and he usesnothing but silk lines for his rods so it will probably be the perfect line for one ofhis rods. Now when you get the new line it needs to be broken in. It will feel abit rough when new and make a sound when shooting through guides - afterabout8 hours of hard fishing it starts to get smooth - keep using it and it justkeeps gettingbetter - the one I use now - people do not suspect it is silk unless I tellthem - theyalways ask what kind of line is this? - it is great! Chris --Original Message Text--- Rich, Chris Bogart should answer this, he has Phoenix lines in various weights. The problem is not that a 5wt Phoenix will be heavier than a 5wt plasticline, since both weigh the samenumber of grains; the issue is that the reduced diameter of the silk (thus, decreased air resistance) might allow you tostep down to a 4wt. comfortably. Buton the other hand, it might just allow you to put less effort into your casting since you are not throwing around a [PersonalNote: refrain from using remarkslike "bloated sausage casing" to describe Cortland lines] . Best regards, Reed Richard Colo wrote: Hi Folks, I am going to buy a new Phoenix Silk line. The rod a want it for is a PerBrandin hollow built 71/2' #4/5. Ifish a DT 5 on it with a Cortland 444. Someone told me the silks are a little heavier. I'm not sure weather to get the 4 or the 5and have no way of trying themout. Any advise would be greatly appreciated....thanks. Rich Colo Reed Curry wrote: Bob, Yup, 1/3 box to a gallon of warm water seems to work well. Best regards, Reed bob maulucci wrote: Hi Reed: Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying to answerPaul in a bit of haste. Sorry toall. Your method was to use the baking soda. It does work really well. I used the alcohol method on someone else'srecommendation, but there really isn't a needonce you try the baking soda. I should not try to post after not sleeping. Was the mix of baking soda 1/3 box to a gallon? I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot. Best regards, Bob At 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote: Bob, I really think using solvents such as alcohol is more expensive anddangerous to the user's health (as well asthe lines'). The baking soda method is far easier and does a better job, IMHO. I still like the Formby's Tung Oil Varnish, but others have had goodsuccess in mixing a small amount of tungoil with spar varnish. That might be cheaper. Best regards, Reed bob maulucci wrote: I redid mine as per Reed Curry. Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off after about anhour. Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Put some tungoil (Reed uses Formby's) on acloth and wipe the finish on as the line passes from one bag to the next. Leave it in the second bag to dry for a couplehours. Repeat four or five timesuntil the line has a nice coating. Then I think some people polish it with talc. Dress with Mucillin. Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote: Can anyone on the list please giveme advice on how best to look after and rejuvinate silk fly lines. I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume )mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a little sticky/tacky. Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul BBob Maulucci ================================================== downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci ================================================== downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963424=_=_=_ Richard Go for the DT5 Silk line - I have had long talks with Per and he usesnothing but silk lines for his rods so it will probably be the perfect line for one ofhis rods. Now when you get the new line it needs to be broken in. It will feelabit rough when new and make a sound when shooting through guides - afterabout8 hours of hard fishing it starts to get smooth - keep using it and it justkeeps gettingbetter - the one I use now - people do not suspect it is silk unless I tellthem - theyalways ask what kind of line is this? - it is great! Chris --Original Message Text---From: Reed CurryDate: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:15:46 -0500 Rich, Chris Bogart should answer this, he has Phoenix lines in various weights. The problem is not that a 5wt Phoenix will be heavier than a 5wt plasticline, since both weigh the samenumber of grains; the issue is that the reduced diameter of the silk (thus,decreased air resistance) mightallow you to step down to a 4wt. comfortably. But on the other hand, itmight just allow you to put lesseffort into your casting since you are not throwing around a [PersonalNote: refrain from using remarks like"bloated sausage casing" to describe Cortland lines] . Best regards, Reed Richard Colo wrote: Hi Folks, I am going to buy a new Phoenix Silk line. The rod a want it for is a PerBrandin hollow built 71/2' #4/5. Ifish a DT 5 on it with a Cortland 444. Someone told me the silks are alittle heavier. I'm not sure weather toget the 4 or the 5 and have no way of trying them out. Any advise would begreatly appreciated....thanks. RichColo Reed Curry wrote: Bob, Yup, 1/3 box to a gallon of warm water seems to work well. Best regards, Reed bob maulucci wrote: Hi Reed: Yes, the baking soda! I had totally forgot that one. I was trying to answerPaul in a bit of haste. Sorry toall. Your method was to use the baking soda. It does work really well. Iused the alcohol method on someoneelse's recommendation, but there really isn't a need once you try thebaking soda. I should not try to postafter not sleeping. Was the mix of baking soda 1/3 box to a gallon? I only have two lines and don't get to practice this a lot. Best regards, Bob At 02:40 PM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote: Bob, I really think using solvents such as alcohol is more expensive anddangerous to the user's health (as well asthe lines'). The baking soda method is far easier and does a better job,IMHO. I still like the Formby's Tung Oil Varnish, but others have had goodsuccess in mixing a small amount of tungoil with spar varnish. That might be cheaper. Best regards, Reed bob maulucci wrote: I redid mine as per Reed Curry. Soak in denatured alcohol. The old varnish will rub right off after about anhour. Then take two paper bags. Put the line in the bag at the left. Put some tungoil (Reed uses Formby's) on acloth and wipe the finish on as the line passes from one bag to the next.Leave it in the second bag to dry coating. Then I think some peoplepolish it with talc. Dress with Mucillin. Bob At 06:37 PM 3/18/00 -0800, you wrote: Can anyone on the list please giveme advice on how best to look after and rejuvinate silk fly lines. I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume )mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a little sticky/tacky. Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul BBob Maulucci ================================================== downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci ================================================== downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963424=_=_=_-- from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 19 11:16:21 2000 Subject: ferrules for quads boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0388_01BF9183.BE0B0600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0388_01BF9183.BE0B0600 This post is partly in answer to mark Lee's question about squaring up =ferrules for use with quads. At the recent Sportsman's Exposition in =Seattle I had a conversation with Alan Gnann President of R.E.C. on this =very topic. I asked him if they would make ferrules that are not =serrated (as they usually are for 6 sided rods) so that we could square =them up to fit quads. He indicated that he might be willing to arrange = was =sufficient interest. I plan to inquire at the Corbett Lake 2000 work =shop as to what the interest level is and then forward that data to =Alan. My thinking was that we could make our own squaring tools and thus=have the ferrules fit the quads snugly over the last 3/8" of the ferrule =where it would normally be serrated. Perhaps others are interested in =this or perhaps others would prefer to have ferrules serrated in 4 =places for quads. Any thoughts?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0388_01BF9183.BE0B0600 This post is partly in answer to mark = Sportsman's Exposition in Seattle I had a conversation with Alan Gnann = of R.E.C. on this very topic. I asked him if they would make ferrules = not serrated (as they usually are for 6 sided rods) so that we could = small factory run of the common sizes say 11/64-15/64 if there was = the interest level is and then forward that data to Alan. My thinking = we could make our own squaring tools and thus have the ferrules fit the = snugly over the last 3/8" of the ferrule where it would normally be = Perhaps others are interested in this or perhaps others would prefer to = ferrules serrated in 4 places for quads. Any thoughts?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0388_01BF9183.BE0B0600-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 19 12:43:43 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with ESMTP ;Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:43:08 +0000 Subject: Re: ferrules for quads Ray, I would be interested. Though I won't be at Corbett Lake, I (andprobably one or two others) would definitely be interested in either theunserrated or the x4 serrated ferrule run. Please post your progress to the list on this one. I (speaking formyself here) am most definitely interested. Thanx! Dennis Ray Gould wrote: This post is partly in answer to mark Lee's question about squaring upferrules for use with quads. At the recent Sportsman's Exposition inSeattle I had a conversation with Alan Gnann President of R.E.C. onthis very topic. I asked him if they would make ferrules that are notserrated (as they usually are for 6 sided rods) so that we couldsquare them up to fit quads. He indicated that he might be willingto arrange for a small factory run of the common sizes say 11/64-15/64if there was sufficient interest. I plan to inquire at the CorbettLake 2000 work shop as to what the interest level is and then forwardthat data to Alan. My thinking was that we could make our own squaringtools and thus have the ferrules fit the quads snugly over the last3/8" of the ferrule where it would normally be serrated. Perhapsothers are interested in this or perhaps others would prefer to haveferrules serrated in 4 places for quads. Any thoughts?Ray from stpete@netten.net Sun Mar 19 15:12:50 2000 Subject: test test from BigJohn47@aol.com Sun Mar 19 17:15:28 2000 Subject: wooden forms hi:does anyone on the list know of or have any plans or ideas on making adjustable wood planing forms.thanx from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 19 17:23:56 2000 Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:23:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines Does anyone have a website/email/point of contact for Phoenix, or anyother silk line supplier?? I have not tried silk yet but I think I mighttry one soon. As a matter of fact I have an old line that might even besilk.How can you tell?What are the big advantages/disadvantages of silk for bamboo? Shawn paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 19 17:28:40 2000 Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:27:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Paul Young taper anomaly If I understand your question right, the anomaly you describe is in therods parabolic design? Paul Young was known for these fascinating tapersas wereseveral other known builders.If I have misinterpreted your question, someone feel free to correct me. Shawn Ray Gould wrote: Hi Rob,The Paul Young taper detail you've discovered is not an anomaly for histaper designs. He is known for what I'll call the pinched waist designwherethe taper in the butt section decreases or flattens out in the area aheadofthe hand grasp. My thinking is that this feature makes the whole upperpartof the rod section flex a little more and feels like it is leveraging thecast for you. Many people like this type action.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 8:07 PMSubject: Paul Young taper anomaly A PHY "Texas General" I was measuring over varnish today does theweirdestthing between 55" and 70" ( from the tip with rod assembled). Itactuallydecreases from .293 at 60 inches to .283 at 65 inches. 70 inches is arespectable .297.Passing an open dial caliper over this section showsthelump-it's really there. I don't think it's in the varnish as there is nosignof a run and it's consistant on all three measurments across the flats.I've not come across a taper yet that does this.(I hope you're reading this Wayne)The rod casts a 7 headstart line to beat the band-and I'm thinking ofmakinga bonefish rod... Rob Hoffhines from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 19 17:32:50 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:21:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF91C9.6E447F20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF91C9.6E447F20 I think Golden Witch has them listed, or one like them. GMA Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 6:20 PMSubject: Re: Silk Fy Lines Does anyone have a website/email/point of contact for Phoenix, or anyother silk line supplier?? I have not tried silk yet but I think I =mighttry one soon. As a matter of fact I have an old line that might even =besilk.How can you tell?What are the big advantages/disadvantages of silk for bamboo? Shawn paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to look =afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF91C9.6E447F20 them. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Shawn Pineo Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: Silk Fy =LinesDoes anyone have a website/email/point of contact for = or anyother silk line supplier?? I have not tried silk yet but I = advantages/disadvantages of silk for = help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly = Thanks......Paul B ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BF91C9.6E447F20-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 19 17:48:48 2000 Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:48:40 -0800 Subject: Re: wooden forms BigJohn47@aol.com wrote: hi:does anyone on the list know of or have any plans or ideas on makingadjustable wood planing forms.thanx BigJohn47,There are several links from the Rodmakers Pagehttp://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.htmlto sites that contain plans. In fact, you can take the plans for steelforms and substitute a good hardwood like maple. But it doesn't take toomuch longer to make steel forms than it does to make wooden ones.Try Bruce Conner's site, and Tony Youngs, and I'm sure there areothers. Harry Boyd --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 19 17:49:11 2000 Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:49:04 -0800 Subject: Re: wooden forms BigJohn47@aol.com wrote: hi:does anyone on the list know of or have any plans or ideas on makingadjustable wood planing forms.thanx --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Mar 19 18:16:04 2000 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: ferrules for quads Another option is Tony Young. He just made some ferrules with quadserrations for me at the usual excellent prices. His stuff is very nice. Seehttp://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: ferrules for quads This post is partly in answer to mark Lee's question about squaring upferrules for use with quads. At the recent Sportsman's Exposition inSeattle I had a conversation with Alan Gnann President of R.E.C. on thisvery topic. I asked him if they would make ferrules that are notserrated (as they usually are for 6 sided rods) so that we couldsquarethem up to fit quads. He indicated that he might be willing toarrange wassufficient interest. I plan to inquire at the Corbett Lake 2000 workshop as to what the interest level is and then forward that data toAlan. My thinking was that we could make our own squaring tools and thushave the ferrules fit the quads snugly over the last 3/8" of the ferrulewhere it would normally be serrated. Perhaps others are interested inthis or perhaps others would prefer to have ferrules serrated in 4places for quads. Any thoughts?Ray from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 19 18:40:06 2000 Subject: Franken tools update Guys,I have updated the franken tools page with better pics anddescriptive text. Hope this helps all that asked for more details!Shawnhttp://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZOShawnsbamboopage from steved@dsl.telocity.com Sun Mar 19 18:55:23 2000 Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF91D4.438BE880" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF91D4.438BE880 Try http://www.belvoirdale.com/ . steve Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 5:34 PMSubject: Re: Silk Fy Lines I think Golden Witch has them listed, or one like them. GMA Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 6:20 PMSubject: Re: Silk Fy Lines Does anyone have a website/email/point of contact for Phoenix, or =anyother silk line supplier?? I have not tried silk yet but I think I =mighttry one soon. As a matter of fact I have an old line that might =even besilk.How can you tell?What are the big advantages/disadvantages of silk for bamboo? Shawn paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to look =afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I =assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a =littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF91D4.438BE880 Try http://www.belvoirdale.com/ =;. steve ----- Original Message ----- nobler paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: Silk Fy =Lines them. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Shawn Pineo Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: Silk Fy =LinesDoes anyone have a website/email/point of contact for= Phoenix, or anyother silk line supplier?? I have not tried silk = condition and the other seemingly very good but just a = B ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF91D4.438BE880-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 19 18:55:38 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Franken tools update That link doesn't seem to work for some reason, so just go to eboard.comand go to Shawnsbamboopage from there. Sorry, I don't know why itworkedlast time but not this time?Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Guys,I have updated the franken tools page with better pics anddescriptive text. Hope this helps all that asked for more details!Shawnhttp://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZOShawnsbamboopage from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 19 19:56:07 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A49DD1B019A; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:53:33 -0500 Subject: Re: attachments All,I also heard (just today) of some place called photopoint.com whichisdesigned for people to post their pictures and even arrange them intoalbums so their friends and relatives can view them all over the world. Itsounded perfect as another eBoard if eBoard has any drawbacks. They'repushing it in the NYC area on the radio stations. Maybe another option?Art At 09:12 AM 03/19/2000 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:HI Reed: Why not post to the Web and send the URL to the list? I couldhostsome stuff for you if you don't have anywhere to put it. Some people havebeen using eBoard lately like Harry B. and Shawn with nice results.Regards, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 19 20:29:05 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AC6A33520296; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:26:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Franken tools update Shawn,Why am I being prompted to download a file using the URL youposted? Is itmy machine or your URL?Art At 09:36 PM 03/19/2000 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Guys,I have updated the franken tools page with better pics anddescriptive text. Hope this helps all that asked for more details!Shawnhttp://www.eboard.com/bin/display.cgi?ebindex.1H/QLZ9S4SRZOShawnsbamboopage from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 19 21:57:39 2000 Subject: PHY Texas General taper Thanks to all who gave me input on this taper. My plan is to make it as a 3 piece, so if it stinks, I'll make a new mid with the offending swell adveraged out. Anyway, here is the taper. She's an 8 ft 2pc 7/8 wt. Over varnish-you subtract (maybe 4-5 thou thick) from tip:1 .0915 .11810 .14415 .16420 .17025 .18930 .20535 .23040 .24045 .24449 .249 (50" under male ferrule)53 .268 (at base of female)55 .27660 .29365 .283 (?!)70 .29775 .31580 .316 (the PHY signature flat-ish spot of a para)85 .33090 .335 91 .335 at handle- assuming .335 under cork.Handle is only 61/2". Rob Hoffhines from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Mar 20 05:47:40 2000 Subject: Here's the link to the updated Franken page! Hey all,sorry about the mix up with the link last night! here is theproper link to take you there. http://wwShawnsbamboopage.eboard.com I put new photos of franken binder and lathe with "detailed"instructions to build. This time I also included a chat section. I willtry to add the other tools and anything else I think might be ofinterest as I get some spare time (whatever that is ;^) )Hope that the eboard posts help those who inquired and I apologize and other commitments. The PHY Perfectionist I built for the castingtournament performed wonderfully! Although I didn't win I proved mypoint: you don't need a 9-10'long7wt graphite rod to do the job! I stuck out like a sore thumb becauseeveryone else was walking around with 9 and 10 graphite clubs. In Iwalked with my little 7 1/24 wt toy, and you don't see many bamboo rods here in Nova Scotia tostart with, and people were oohing and aahing and asking lots ofquestions.Imagine the uproar next year when I show up with my 6'3" 2wt 3pc"Sir D"!! Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Mar 20 06:00:55 2000 0400 Subject: Re: Here's the link to the updated Franken page! Should be http://www.Shawnsbamboopage.eboard.com Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Hey all,sorry about the mix up with the link last night! here is theproper link to take you there. http://wwShawnsbamboopage.eboard.com I put new photos of franken binder and lathe with "detailed"instructions to build. This time I also included a chat section. I willtry to add the other tools and anything else I think might be ofinterest as I get some spare time (whatever that is ;^) )Hope that the eboard posts help those who inquired and I apologize and other commitments. The PHY Perfectionist I built for the castingtournament performed wonderfully! Although I didn't win I proved mypoint: you don't need a 9-10'long7wt graphite rod to do the job! I stuck out like a sore thumb becauseeveryone else was walking around with 9 and 10 graphite clubs. In Iwalked with my little 7 1/24 wt toy, and you don't see many bamboo rods here in Nova Scotia tostart with, and people were oohing and aahing and asking lots ofquestions.Imagine the uproar next year when I show up with my 6'3" 2wt 3pc"Sir D"!! Shawn from arnold.jl@pg.com Mon Mar 20 08:23:57 2000 notes082.na.pg.com [155.125.116.193] 1999)) id 852568A8.004F12B1 ; Mon, 20Mar 2000 09:23:41 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines Boundary="0__=o1lkdJiR9dI0bAzXHdLZykoYaiV2ns3x4Ld1JgznmXvr86LFHmmf9o4Y" --0__=o1lkdJiR9dI0bAzXHdLZykoYaiV2ns3x4Ld1JgznmXvr86LFHmmf9o4Y J.D. Wagner also has the Phoenix Silk lines for sale on his website. Jeff Internet Mail Message Received from host: wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1] Envelope Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Please respond to nobler@satx.rr.com Subject: Re: Silk Fy Lines I think Golden Witch has them listed, or one like them. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Shawn Pineo Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 6:20 PMSubject: Re: Silk Fy Lines Does anyone have a website/email/point of contact for Phoenix, or anyother silk line supplier?? I have not tried silk yet but I think I mighttry one soon. As a matter of fact I have an old line that might even besilk.How can you tell?What are the big advantages/disadvantages of silk for bamboo? Shawn paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com wrote: Can anyone on the list please give me advice on how best to look afterand rejuvinate silk fly lines.I have just acquired two King fisher silk lines , one in ( I assume)mint condition and the other seemingly very good but just a littlesticky/tacky.Any help from the 'Rodbuilders'would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......Paul B --0__=o1lkdJiR9dI0bAzXHdLZykoYaiV2ns3x4Ld1JgznmXvr86LFHmmf9o4Y name="att1.htm" PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwvL0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWlzby04ODU5LTEiIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9Q29udGVudC1UeXBlPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0iTVNIVE1M 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 --0__=o1lkdJiR9dI0bAzXHdLZykoYaiV2ns3x4Ld1JgznmXvr86LFHmmf9o4Y-- from rhd360@maine.edu Mon Mar 20 11:09:50 2000 Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Mon, 20Mar 2000 12:09:05 EST Subject: Re: ferrules for quads Incidentally, CSE has unserrated ferrules in stock, or at least they did thelast time I ordered. I think they were $5 over serrated. (No connection,interest etc.) Bob. At 09:16 AM 3/19/00 -0800, you wrote: This post is partly in answer to mark Lee's question about squaring upferrules for use with quads. At the recent Sportsman's Exposition inSeattleI had a conversation with Alan Gnann President of R.E.C. on this verytopic.I asked him if they would make ferrules that are not serrated (as theyusually are for 6 sided rods) so that we could square them up to fitquads.He indicated that he might be willing to arrange for a small factory runofthe common sizes say 11/64-15/64 if there was sufficient interest. Iplan toinquire at the Corbett Lake 2000 work shop as to what the interest levelisand then forward that data to Alan. My thinking was that we could makeourown squaring tools and thus have the ferrules fit the quads snugly overthelast 3/8" of the ferrule where it would normally be serrated. Perhapsothersare interested in this or perhaps others would prefer to have ferrulesserrated in 4 places for quads. Any thoughts?Ray Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Mar 20 12:18:55 2000 0500 Subject: broken tip I was straightening a tip section prior to heat treating, using thewhack-it-on- the-bench method, and I whacked a bit too enthusiasticallyandbroke off about 5/8 inch at the top end. Rather than throw out all thework, I want to go ahead and finish the rod (its for my own use). 2questions: (a) what's the best method for cutting the broken ends clean -chisel each strip? glue them together and then saw the splintery bits off?something else? (b) should I cut an equivalent amount off the bottom endofthe butt section to even the sections out, or does this matter? from caneman@clnk.com Mon Mar 20 14:28:53 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:25:31 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: broken tip Seth,Where it will matter is in your taper. just a little hint here...always leave an extra inch or two at both ends of the rod until finaldimensioning is done and you are ready to fit the rod to glue up. Wouldhelp to know how long the section was to be, how much leadway you haveonthe taper, can you use the same strips, shorten them to another lengthsameweight rod or maybe even a line weight lighter? If it was me, I would justshorten, heat treat, and taper to the line weight I wanted. As for the bestway to cut them off evenly. Tape them together tightly with 2 or threerounds of low bond masking tape, mark where you want your cut on thetape,score around the mark with a single edge razor blade or a very sharpexactoknife, keep rotating the tip, under the blade on a flat surface until youget it cut through (go slow and easy... takes 20 to 35 hours to make a rod,don't get in a hurry to make a 5 minute cut).Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: broken tip I was straightening a tip section prior to heat treating, using thewhack-it-on- the-bench method, and I whacked a bit too enthusiasticallyandbroke off about 5/8 inch at the top end. Rather than throw out all thework, I want to go ahead and finish the rod (its for my own use). 2questions: (a) what's the best method for cutting the broken ends clean -chisel each strip? glue them together and then saw the splintery bitsoff?something else? (b) should I cut an equivalent amount off the bottom endofthe butt section to even the sections out, or does this matter? from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Mar 20 15:46:21 2000 0000 (204.186.211.69) Subject: Re: broken tip Seth Steinzor wrote: I was straightening a tip section prior to heat treating, using thewhack-it-on- the-bench method, and I whacked a bit too enthusiasticallyandbroke off about 5/8 inch at the top end. Rather than throw out all thework, I want to go ahead and finish the rod (its for my own use). 2questions: (a) what's the best method for cutting the broken ends clean -chisel each strip? glue them together and then saw the splintery bitsoff?something else? (b) should I cut an equivalent amount off the bottomend ofthe butt section to even the sections out, or does this matter?In my opinion nothing looks worse than uneven sections. I would trim thebutt section so it is even. 5/8" or 11/4" total will not change theaction enough to even notice. Marty from ernie2@pacbell.net Mon Mar 20 16:21:31 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Taper Archives I have two questions.!. Do the tapers in the archives include the rod varnish? 2. How much do you subtract for rod varnish?Thanks,Ernie from FlyfishT@aol.com Mon Mar 20 16:55:51 2000 Subject: another silk line question Hi all,I have some old fly reels with silk line on them i was thinking of refinishing the line. Is there a way to tell what wt. lines they are by weighing them on a grians scale? Or is by casting on the rod the only way?TIA, TOM from wgray@uidaho.edu Mon Mar 20 17:41:24 2000 PAA21426; SMTP; 20 Mar 2000 23:58:32 UT Subject: Re: Attachments According to our computer jocks 72 DPI is the screen resolution for your computer. You can't tell much form a higher DPI photo because the screen won't handle it but larger DPI makes for bigger files. If you are scanning a pic for printing then you want to use at least 300 dpi, or more if colour,etc and your printer will do higher resolutions. The size increase is more expedental than linear though. Later, WilsonDate sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:34:33 -0600 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Attachments Yes, Martin has it right. It also helps to send all photos as jpegs, and I'mtold by the computer gurus, that 72 dpi, is the best image density. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Jensen Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:13 PMSubject: RE: Attachments IMHO My personal thoughts on this. I don't know if there is any sort ofpolicy or not.My suggestion is to send it to only those people requesting it.Why? If you have a dial up connection to the Internet (most people do)thenit could easily take 10 minutes or more to download a 1 MB attachment.Justthe one message! If you didn't want this it would be exasperating to saytheleast! Also depending on how the attachment is sent, and the receivingpersons software, a lot of the people receiving may not be able to openitonce they have spent the 10 minutes or so downloading it. A furtherexasperation. Also check the size of the attachment you are sendingfirst. Ifthe recipient is using a Hotmail address they won't even be able toreceive a1 MB attachment as that is the Hotmail limit. Overhead probably willtake atleast 200k on a Hotmail e-mail address. Try to keep the file size downbyscanning in low resolution. for viewing on a computer, 100 DPI worksprettygood for me and will produce really fine pictures. Personally I have acablemodem and can download at a pretty decent clip, so it really won'tbother meone way or the other, but when I had my modem (it was a 56K operatingat veryrespectable connection speeds) it would routinely take me 10 minutestodownload a 1 MB file that someone was sending me. If I wanted the filethatwas fine, but if I didn't then I could see myself getting a bit cranky. (G)Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 8:26 PM Subject: Attachments All,What is the list stricture regarding attachments? I have a scannernow, and several list members have requested information that I couldreadily scan in from old books. Is it okay to send it to the list?Best regards,Reed *********************************************************** A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. George Bernard Shaw,1944******************************************************** C. Wilson Gray Ph 208.736.3622P O Box 1827 Fax 736.0843Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 UI, Twin Falls R&E Center email wgray@uidaho.edu ******************************************************** from bob@downandacross.com Mon Mar 20 17:41:52 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: another silk line question Here's some stuff I kept about silk lines from the list. I just hadmy DT5 outside with the Dickerson 7613 I just finished. Killer! Here'sthe info, Bob The first two were posted by R.A. Fick and the names from Reed C. I addedsome line designations*. "This is taken from Ray Bergman's Trout, There is a fair amountofinformation on silk and nylon lines available here. These are levellines, Bob H----------------.025 + - 1 1/2 G----------------.030 + - 1 1/2 F----------------.035 + - 2 1/2 " " silk 8'- Carter --- Mayfair Streamline Sunset --- Sharpshooter Rain-Beau ---- Marathon --- U.S. Line Co. --- Cam-O-Flage Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from Canerods@aol.com Mon Mar 20 20:14:09 2000 Subject: Darrell's new web site All, Darrell Lee just sent me an email asking me to check out his new bamboorod website (www.vFish.net) - lots of rod restoration items and a few rods sale. Don Burns PS - AOL wiped out my address list. If I haven't email someone lately, its because I've lost your address. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Mar 20 22:13:58 2000 Subject: Re: ferrules for quads Ray, Dennis, and anyone else interested,I, also, am interested in quad ferrules either serrated or unserrated. You can contact me off list.Regards,Hank Woolman. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Mar 21 02:55:50 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:52:31 -0600 Subject: Big Rod ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_014B_01BF92E0.B4CFA560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_014B_01BF92E0.B4CFA560 OK, Need some advice guys. I am going on a tarpon trip in a few weeks =and just got the butt section of my "Cannon" glued up. Basically, it =will be a 9 ft 9 wt (prob better with a 10 wt inside 60 ft, but just =will have to see when I get it done). My problem is the ferrules. They =will have to be 17/64th. I know I can buy these, but, with all the talk =lately about different metals I wanted the list's input on what might =make a good ferrule material and what may not. I have some one inch NS =bar that I could make the ferrules from, but actually, wanted to stay =away from the NS for a big salt water rod. Here are the metals I am =thinking about using and those of you that don't mind, give me your =thoughts on each one and why I should or shouldn't use it on this rod. 7075 AluminumDuronze (Silicon Bronze)Nickel Silver Any and all comments welcome... and does anyone have a hoist I could use =to draw this puppy out of my varnish tube with? *S* Even with the butt =section hollow-built, it weighs in like a baseball bat (compared to my =other rods). Butt section alone weighs 98 grams ( 3.45 ounces), and I =figure the tip section will weigh around 50 grams (1 3/4 ounces). So =you can see I would like to use a ferrule material as light as possible, =yet strong, durable and resistant to the salt air/water it will be =exposed to. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_014B_01BF92E0.B4CFA560 Basically, it will be a 9 ft 9 wt (prob better with a 10 wt inside 60 = with all the talk lately about different metals I wanted the list's = inch NS bar that I could make the ferrules from, but actually, wanted to = thinking about using and those of you that don't mind, give me your = each one and why I should or shouldn't use it on this rod. 7075 AluminumDuronze (Silicon Bronze)Nickel Silver Any and all comments welcome... and does anyone have a hoist I = draw this puppy out of my varnish tube with? *S* Even with the butt = would like to use a ferrule material as light as possible, yet strong, = and resistant to the salt air/water it will be exposed to. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_014B_01BF92E0.B4CFA560-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Mar 21 03:50:18 2000 SMTP id VAA05162; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:50:00 +1200 Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules Guys, Bob's comments regarding materials for his tarpon rod , and the possibleunsuitibility of silver nickle for ferrules in a salt water atmosphere hasme just a little concerned . I have just finished a nice # 6 rod for a friend in Australia for using onSydney Harbour to catch tailor( sea salmon) on salt water flys. I knowplenty of british rods for salt water use have brass ferrules. Is there any special reason why ns is not suitable for salt water use? Ian Kearney At 02:53 AM 21/03/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:deleted..., wanted to stay away from the NS for a big salt water rod. Here are themetals I am thinking about using and those of you that don't mind, give meyour thoughts on each one and why I should or shouldn't use it on this rod. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 21 06:37:05 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:36:33 +0000 Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules Ian and Bob, Any metal will corrode in the harsh conditions of salt, but with somereasonable care after each use, all of those metals should be suitable. I always give all of my gear a good washing after use in salt water andhave never had a corrosion problem. Having said that, I would go with what I know and use the nickel silver. Dennis Ian Kearney wrote: Guys, Bob's comments regarding materials for his tarpon rod , and the possibleunsuitibility of silver nickle for ferrules in a salt water atmosphere hasme just a little concerned . I have just finished a nice # 6 rod for a friend in Australia for using onSydney Harbour to catch tailor( sea salmon) on salt water flys. I knowplenty of british rods for salt water use have brass ferrules. Is there any special reason why ns is not suitable for salt water use? Ian Kearney At 02:53 AM 21/03/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:deleted..., wanted to stay away from the NS for a big salt water rod. Here arethemetals I am thinking about using and those of you that don't mind, givemeyour thoughts on each one and why I should or shouldn't use it on this rod. from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Mar 21 07:19:07 2000 (HELO localhost) Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:17:15 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:18:40 +0100 Subject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules on TheMidge rods to keep the weight down.Does any one the list have any experience using some of the "new"aluminum in ferrules? regardsdanny from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Mar 21 07:29:51 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:18:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF9307.8953FC20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF9307.8953FC20 I have fished the Texas salt, most of my life, where the saline content =is perhaps 15 times higher, than say Fla. ! This is due to the inland =waters, blocked off my Padre Island. I fished my PHY Lee Cuddy Powerhouse, for several years, in these =waters. The ferrules were N.S., and there was never any problem. It was =SOP, to wash everything in the sink, or shower after a days fishing, and =all metals were given a spray of WD-40, or some good reel oil., and then =wiped down, and all allowed to dry over night, or longer, before =storage. Of course the cane was never soaked, just rinsed off, and = I also have a FG spinning rod, built in the early '60's, that has brass =Super Z's, and it only needs occasional cleaning, with a light oil film, =wiping. I often clean such items with Tarn-X, dip, to remove any sign of =oxidation. I find wooden plugs for the females, help in keeping the =inside surfaces from grit accumulation. FWIW, GMA Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:53 AMSubject: Big Rod ferrules OK, Need some advice guys. I am going on a tarpon trip in a few weeks =and just got the butt section of my "Cannon" glued up. Basically, it =will be a 9 ft 9 wt (prob better with a 10 wt inside 60 ft, but just =will have to see when I get it done). My problem is the ferrules. They =will have to be 17/64th. I know I can buy these, but, with all the talk =lately about different metals I wanted the list's input on what might =make a good ferrule material and what may not. I have some one inch NS =bar that I could make the ferrules from, but actually, wanted to stay =away from the NS for a big salt water rod. Here are the metals I am =thinking about using and those of you that don't mind, give me your =thoughts on each one and why I should or shouldn't use it on this rod. 7075 AluminumDuronze (Silicon Bronze)Nickel Silver Any and all comments welcome... and does anyone have a hoist I could =use to draw this puppy out of my varnish tube with? *S* Even with the =butt section hollow-built, it weighs in like a baseball bat (compared to =my other rods). Butt section alone weighs 98 grams ( 3.45 ounces), and =I figure the tip section will weigh around 50 grams (1 3/4 ounces). So =you can see I would like to use a ferrule material as light as possible, =yet strong, durable and resistant to the salt air/water it will be =exposed to. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF9307.8953FC20 I have fished the Texas salt, most of my life, where the = content is perhaps 15 times higher, than say Fla. ! This is due to the = waters, blocked off my Padre Island. I fished my PHY Lee Cuddy Powerhouse, for several years,in = waters. The ferrules were N.S., and there was never any problem. It was = wash everything in the sink, or shower after a days fishing, and all = given a spray of WD-40, or some good reel oil., and then wiped down, and = allowed to dry over night, or longer, before storage. Of course the cane = never soaked, just rinsed off, and quickly dried. I also have a FG spinning rod, built in the early '60's, = brass Super Z's, and it only needs occasional cleaning, with a light oil = wiping. I often clean such items with Tarn-X, dip, to remove any sign of = oxidation. I find wooden plugs for the females, help in keeping the = surfaces from grit accumulation. FWIW, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 = AMSubject: Big Rod ferrules it will be a 9 ft 9 wt (prob better with a 10 wt inside 60 ft, but = lately about different metals I wanted the list's input on what might = I could make the ferrules from, but actually, wanted to stay away from = and those of you that don't mind, give me your thoughts on each one = should or shouldn't use it on this rod. 7075 AluminumDuronze (Silicon Bronze)Nickel Silver Any and all comments welcome... and does anyone have a hoist I = to draw this puppy out of my varnish tube with? *S* Even with the butt = see I would like to use a ferrule material as light as possible, yet = durable and resistant to the salt air/water it will be exposed =to. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF9307.8953FC20-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Mar 21 07:38:01 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:26:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule material boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF9308.AC6E6280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF9308.AC6E6280 Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6, is the =strongest, until it is heated to 450 deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but =at 450 F., 7075 loses all strength, and falls straight down on the =graph,while 2024, only falls gradually. T-6 condition is very hard to =find, unless you live in big aircraft building areas. T-351 is much =easier to find, and doesn't work harden like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you can =get it, 2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it's maintains =its strength, and the pounding in engines, running at over 30K rpm ! GMA Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 AMSubject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules on TheMidge rods to keep the weight down.Does any one the list have any experience using some of the "new"aluminum in ferrules? regardsdanny ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF9308.AC6E6280 Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6, is = strongest, until it is heated to 450 deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but = F., 7075 loses all strength, and falls straight down on the graph, while = only falls gradually. T-6 condition is very hard to find, unless you = aircraft building areas. T-351 is much easier to find, and doesn't work = like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy.= can get it, 2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it's = strength, and the pounding in engines, running at over 30K rpm =! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Danny Twang = Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 = AMSubject: Ferrule materialIn an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum = TheMidge rods to keep the weight down.Does any one the list = ferrules?regardsdanny ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF9308.AC6E6280-- from jon.beckton@asml.nl Tue Mar 21 07:50:59 2000 (MET) (MET) Subject: Re: Ferrule material Nobler wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6, is the strongest,until it is heatedto 450 deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but at 450 F., 7075 loses allstrength, and fallsstraight down on the graph, while 2024, only falls gradually. T-6condition is very hardto find, unless you live in big aircraft building areas. T-351 is mucheasier to find, anddoesn't work harden like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you can getit, 2024-T6, isthe choice for connecting rods, as it's maintains its strength, and thepounding inengines, running at over 30K rpm ! GMA What about cross-sectional areas? Wouldn't they need to be much biggerthan NS to get the same strengths? from bob@downandacross.com Tue Mar 21 08:28:59 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: silk lines With all the recent questions on silk lines, I did a littlesearching. I never knew this site below even existed until today. Theforum has posts with some useful tips.http://www.phoenixlines.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Tue Mar 21 08:39:03 2000 R8.30.00.7) Subject: guide sizes I haven't built enough rods to have any nuanced feel for the size of guides to use. I have just miked the rods I do have and used them as a rough guideline. Does anyone have any rule of thumb as to the appropriate (or reasonable) size of snake guides to use for various rod lengths and weights? Jon McAnulty from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Mar 21 09:32:59 2000 Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:32:40 +0800 Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules. WARNING large content of verbage. types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_38812978==_.ALT" --=====================_38812978==_.ALT Bob,NS would be fine for marine use so use it unless you just want to dosomethingdifferent and why not?I looked around for my old "Galvanic Series In Sea Water" chart from my'prentice days boat building and amazingly considering how many timesI'vemoved around since then found it so I'll reproduce it here for anybodyinterested.To explain this list, basically when speaking of metals around a marineenvironment as a rule of thumb you have "base" and "noble" metals. Zincandmagnesium are pretty base and gold and platinum are pretty noble. Nowthebasemetals will corrode quite happily left alone but if you mix a base metalwith anoble one the rate of corrosion will be impeded but will still happen as anexample brass suffers from a process called dezincafication which iswhere thezinc through galvanic electrochemical process cause layers of zinc in thebrassalloy to selectively dissolve away soooo while brass and bronze look aliketheydefinitely are not and the reason will become apparent when you look atthelist as zinc is at the very base end and copper is way up there as is tin thealloy of which (as well as other metals) is what bronze is normally knownasbeing. Also note where nickel sits thus my mention that NS is fine in themarine environment.The upshot of it all is (CORROSION WISE) that mixing metals from oppositeendsof the scale is bad, metals that are close to each other is good, puremetals from the noble end is great. Keep in mind alchemists which were justmedievalmetallurgists decided on these terms.You'll also notice SS appears at both ends of the scale because it issometimesactive and sometimes passive depending upon the metals it's around andthatGalv steel is more base than steel which seems strange but I guess isbecauseof dezincifation in the galv process. I've never had this explained wellenoughto understand to explain or if I was told it would have been in a lecture Iwastaking the opportunity to sleep off the night before, all this stuff isprettytechnical and well into arcane dark arts in depth but at this level it's easyenough to get a handle on. The List: anodic (base) endMagnesiumMagnesium alloysZincGalvanized wrought iron or galvanized steelAluminium (5052SH, 3004S, 30035S, 1100S, 6053S-T in this order)AlcladCadmium Aluminium (2017S-T, 2024S-T in this order)Mild steelWrought ironCast ironNi-resist13% Chromium stainless steel type 440 (active)50/50 lead/tin solder18-8 stainless steel type 304 (active)18-8 stainless steel type 316 (active)LeadTinMuntz metalManganese bronze (Manganese is not a form of magnesium)Naval brassNickle (active)Iconel (active)Yellow brassAdmiralty brassAluminium bronzeRed brasscopperSilicon bronzeAmbrac70-30 Copper/nickel (close enough to ind. how NS as used in ferrules(90/10approx) would hold up. )Nickel (passive)Iconel (passive)Monel (passive)18-8 stainless steel type 304 (passive)18-8 stainless steel type 316 (passive) cathode (noble) end Although there seems to be a fair difference in the list between lead andSiBronze it's not as great as it appears, there are more alloys listedbetweenthese as the list is specific to the marine environment so the commonalloysare listed for ease of comparison. In fact there is little between lead andSiBronze corrosion wise as far as the metals used in their alloys goes so tinandcopper are closely related for this purpose for eg tin and copper are themainelements of bronze which lasts for eons. As far as the alloys you mention I'd suggest: 7075 Aluminum. Don't do it. 7075 is aircraft grade and as well as beingused gained by belaying from a dingy at the base of a climb that starts at sealevelthat salt water on this alloy will cause corrosion to form very quickly. My'biners were almost beyond salvage by weekend's end. Lesson, use afriendsgearwhen climbing at sea cliffs.I have no idea as to how aircraft on aircraft carriers go with this. Duronze (Silicon Bronze) Good.Nickel Silver Good. I noted on the list at the 70/30 copper/nickel Ithoughtthe alloy used for ferrules somewhere between 13% and 18% nickel wouldbecloseenough to compare with it. If that is so it would be better than Si Bronzeforcorrosion but not for strength if taken to a rarefied extent.I'm going to mention here I can do Si Bronze, sorry for the blatent advert. Tony At 02:53 AM 3/21/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: OK, Need some advice guys. I am going on a tarpon trip in a few weeksandjust got the butt section of my "Cannon" glued up. Basically, it will bea 9ft 9 wt (prob better with a 10 wt inside 60 ft, but just will have to seewhen I get it done). My problem is the ferrules. They will have to be17/64th. I know I can buy these, but, with all the talk lately aboutdifferent metals I wanted the list's input on what might make a goodferrulematerial and what may not. I have some one inch NS bar that I couldmaketheferrules from, but actually, wanted to stay away from the NS for a bigsaltwater rod. Here are the metals I am thinking about using and those ofyouthat don't mind, give me your thoughts on each one and why I should orshouldn't use it on this rod. 7075 AluminumDuronze (Silicon Bronze)Nickel Silver Any and all comments welcome... and does anyone have a hoist I could usetodraw this puppy out of my varnish tube with? *S* Even with the buttsectionhollow-built, it weighs in like a baseball bat (compared to my otherrods). Butt section alone weighs 98 grams ( 3.45 ounces), and I figure the tipsection will weigh around 50 grams (1 3/4 ounces). So you can see Iwouldlike to use a ferrule material as light as possible, yet strong, durableandresistant to the salt air/water it will be exposed to. Thanks in advance,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_38812978==_.ALT Bob,NS would be fine for marine use so use it unless you just want to dosomething different and why not?I looked around for my old "Galvanic Series In Sea Water" chart from my 'prentice days boat building and amazingly considering how manytimes I've moved around since then found it so I'll reproduce it here foranybody interested.To explain this list, basically when speaking of metals around a marineenvironment as a rule of thumb you have "base" and gold and platinum are pretty noble. Now the base metals will corrodequite happily left alone but if you mix a base metal with a noble one therate of corrosion will be impeded but will still happen as an examplebrass suffers from a process called dezincafication which is where thezinc through galvanic electrochemical process cause layers of zinc in thebrass alloy to selectively dissolve away soooo while brass and bronzelook alike they definitely are not and the reason will become apparentwhen you look at the list as zinc is at the very base end and copper isway up there as is tin the alloy of which (as well as other metals) iswhat bronze is normally known as being. Also note where nickel sits thusmy mention that NS is fine in the marine environment.The upshot of it all is (CORROSION WISE) that mixing metals from oppositeends of the scale is bad, metals that are close to each other is good,pure metals from the noble end is great. Keep in mind alchemists whichwere just medieval metallurgists decided on these terms.You'll also notice SS appears at both ends of the scale because it issometimes active and sometimes passive depending upon the metals it'saround and that Galv steel is more base than steel which seems strangebut I guess is because of dezincifation in the galv process. I've neverhad this explained well enough to understand to explain or if I was toldit would have been in a lecture I was taking the opportunity to sleep offthe night before, all this stuff is pretty technical and well into arcanedark arts in depth but at this level it's easy enough to get a handleon. The List: anodic (base) endMagnesiumMagnesium alloysZincGalvanized wrought iron or galvanized steelAluminium (5052SH, 3004S, 30035S, 1100S, 6053S-T in this order)AlcladCadmium Aluminium (2017S-T, 2024S-T in this order)Mild steelWrought ironCast ironNi-resist13% Chromium stainless steel type 440 (active)50/50 lead/tin solder LeadTinMuntz metal not aform of magnesium)Naval brassNickle (active)Iconel (active)Yellow brassAdmiralty brassAluminium bronzeRed brasscopperSilicon bronzeAmbrac ferrules (90/10 approx) would hold up. )Nickel (passive)Iconel (passive)Monel (passive) cathode (noble) end Although there seems to be a fair difference in the list between lead andSi Bronze it's not as great as it appears, there are more alloys listedbetween these as the list is specific to the marine environment so thecommon alloys are listed for ease of comparison. In fact there is littlebetween lead and Si Bronze corrosion wise as far as the metals used intheir alloys goes so tin and copper are closely related for this purpose eons. As far as the alloys you mention I'd suggest: 7075 Aluminum. Don't do it. 7075 is aircraft grade and as well as beingused for aircraft is used for carabiners. I can attest from personalexperience gained by belaying from a dingy at the base of a climb thatstarts at sea level that salt water on this alloy will cause corrosion toform very quickly. My 'biners were almost beyond salvage by weekend'send. Lesson, use a friends gear when climbing at sea cliffs.I have no idea as to how aircraft on aircraft carriers go with this. Duronze (Silicon at the 70/30 copper/nickel I thought the alloy used for ferrulessomewhere between 13% and 18% nickel would be close enough to comparewith it. If that is so it would be better than Si Bronze for corrosionbut not for strength if taken to a rarefied extent.I'm going to mention here I can do Si Bronze, sorry for the blatentadvert. Tony At 02:53 AM 3/21/00 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: a tarpon trip in a few weeks and just got the butt section of my (prob better with a 10 wt inside 60 ft, but just will have to see when I about different metals I wanted the list's input on what might make a that I could make the ferrules from, but actually, wanted to stay away thinking about using and those of you that don't mind, give me yourthoughts on each one and why I should or shouldn't use it on thisrod. 7075 AluminumDuronze (Silicon Bronze)Nickel Silver Any and all comments welcome... and does anyone have a hoist I could useto draw this puppy out of my varnish tube with? *S* Even with the buttsection hollow-built, it weighs in like a baseball bat (compared to my So you can see I would like to use a ferrule material as light aspossible, yet strong, durable and resistant to the salt air/water it willbe exposed to. Thanks in advance,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_38812978==_.ALT-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Mar 21 09:40:01 2000 Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:39:05 +0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule material types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_39199783==_.ALT" --=====================_39199783==_.ALT George,how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned in a prev post I found myclimbinggear corroded when used around (actually sometimes in) the marineenvironmentvery quickly, almost before my eyes. I sort of saved the gear by washing infresh water and WD-40ing everything but pitting still occured. Tony At 07:40 AM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6, is the strongest,until it is heated to 450 deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but at 450 F., 7075loses all strength, and falls straight down on the graph, while 2024, onlyfalls gradually. T-6 condition is very hard to find, unless you live in bigaircraft building areas. T-351 is much easier to find, and doesn't workharden like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you can getit,2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it's maintains itsstrength,and the pounding in engines, running at over 30K rpm ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Danny Twang Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 AM Subject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules on The Midge rods to keep the weight down. Does any one the list have any experience using some of the "new" aluminum in ferrules? regards danny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_39199783==_.ALT George,how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned in a prev post I found myclimbing gear corroded when used around (actually sometimes in) themarine environment very quickly, almost before my eyes. I sort of savedthe gear by washing in fresh water and WD-40ing everything but pittingstill occured. Tony At 07:40 AM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively everyday. 7075 -T6, is the strongest, until it is heated to 450 deg. F..2024-T6 parallels it, but at 450 F., 7075 loses all strength, and fallsstraight down on the graph, while 2024, only falls gradually. T-6condition is very hard to find, unless you live in big aircraft buildingareas. T-351 is much easier to find, and doesn't work harden like 7075does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you canget it, 2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it's maintains itsstrength, and the pounding in engines, running at over 30K rpm ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From:DannyTwang Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 AMSubject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules on TheMidge rods to keep the weight down.Does any one the list have any experience using some of the"new"aluminum in ferrules? regardsdanny /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_39199783==_.ALT-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Mar 21 11:03:18 2000 Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:02:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules. WARNING large content of verbage. Tony Young wrote: I have no idea as to how aircraft on aircraft carriers go with this. Here's where I have enough knowledge to jump in! The aircraft grademetal is heavily maintained by guys like me. The aircraft is constantlywashed oiled and inspected by technicians over and over and overand..........you get the idea? And even with all that maintenance theystill corrode! Salt water is one of one of the aircraft's biggestenemies.Shawn from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Tue Mar 21 11:49:48 2000 Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules. WARNING large content of verbage. What about Ti?When I worked at Sparcraft doing racing masts we used a lot of it withsuccess. Its strong, very light and seems to be pretty inert in saltwater,although it is expensive and interesting (!!) to machine. We used Ti6Al4vgrade for many years and I can remeber no ocasion whan we had a failureorcorrosion issue with it Hopefully the metallurgists on the list canunscramble the spec.TPS It also finishes nicely in that sort of gunmetal bluey grey colour. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules. WARNING large content of verbage. Tony Young wrote: I have no idea as to how aircraft on aircraft carriers go with this. Here's where I have enough knowledge to jump in! The aircraft grademetal is heavily maintained by guys like me. The aircraft is constantlywashed oiled and inspected by technicians over and over and overand..........you get the idea? And even with all that maintenance theystill corrode! Salt water is one of one of the aircraft's biggestenemies.Shawn from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Mar 21 12:03:17 2000 Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:02:53 +0800 Subject: Re: Big Rod ferrules. WARNING large content of verbage. The problem with Ti is that interesting machining charastic you alludedto.Life's complicated enough thank you very much. ;-) Tony At 05:53 PM 3/21/00 +0000, Watson's wrote:What about Ti?When I worked at Sparcraft doing racing masts we used a lot of it withsuccess. Its strong, very light and seems to be pretty inert in saltwater,although it is expensive and interesting (!!) to machine. We used Ti6Al4vgrade for many years and I can remeber no ocasion whan we had a failureorcorrosion issue with it Hopefully the metallurgists on the list canunscramble the spec.TPS It also finishes nicely in that sort of gunmetal bluey grey colour. ----- Original Message -----From: Shawn Pineo Cc: ; Rod Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 5:59 PMSubject: Re: Big Rod ferrules. WARNING large content of verbage. Tony Young wrote: I have no idea as to how aircraft on aircraft carriers go with this. Here's where I have enough knowledge to jump in! The aircraft grademetal is heavily maintained by guys like me. The aircraft is constantlywashed oiled and inspected by technicians over and over and overand..........you get the idea? And even with all that maintenance theystill corrode! Salt water is one of one of the aircraft's biggestenemies.Shawn /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Mar 21 13:44:53 2000 (MET) Subject: Another Silk line question Last fall I bought a silk line on a reel. It looked unused, but verysticky.Its dark green, and I measured it to be a HEH line.I used my finger to run the line through, eventually, after many hours, itgot hard and smooth.I did it last fall, today when I checked it, its still hard and smooth. Is this line ready to fish after a light coat of Mucilini, or shuld I stripall the coat of with baking sodaand revarnish? TIAdanny------>-------- from Canerods@aol.com Tue Mar 21 14:02:36 2000 Subject: Re: Ferrule material All, Amoco's Torlon (poly-amide-amide PLASTIC!!) replaced T6 Aluminium inFord's all-plastic racing engine. It shouldn't corode in saltwater and I guess they won't need to be blued - the stuff is already black. Weight is less than AL, however, I doubt if anyone wants plastic ferrules on their $1,500bamboo rod. NS works quite well because it also slides easily apart at the end of ahard day's fishing. I doubt if any AL based material would do that and if it corroded in saltwater and locked together, it sure could be a problem. But, maybe having it anodized to a nice shade of purple would appeal tosome? (Wayne?) I believe you'll have a hard task trying to find a material that equals or exceeds all of NS's properties. Don Burns from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Mar 21 15:09:50 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Need help identifying some of the '99 Mid-Atlantic Rodmakers inphotos... Friends, Found a missing roll of film the other day and lo and behold, it containedpictures of the Boiling Springs Gathering from Sept. 99. I've posted them on my brand new, one day old web site at www.vFish.netandyou'll find the nav link in the lower left hand corner of the home page. Ifyou would be so kind as to help me identify some of the participants in thepics and if could identify some of the equipment such as the other largerbeveler next to Al M's beveler that would be greatly appreciated. Enjoyed meeting everyone there, Tom Smithwick's chili, Fred's hospitality,Joe Byrd's cigars and everyone's friendliness... This new site gives me the extra space I wanted... going from 10 megs to300megs... I'm also looking for web authors who would like to have theirarticles published on my web site that covers bamboo fly rodconstruction,repair and collecting. If you find any weird or missing links on the site, please report them tome... Thanks, Regards, Darrell Leewww.vFish.net from rmoon@ida.net Tue Mar 21 15:46:12 2000 0000 Subject: ReWhat's Wrong I left for the ISE Show in Salt Lake and was gone for about a week. Itried to put the list on vacation, but did not succeed. So--- that wasmy problem., but for the last two days I have been getting 6-10 copiesof every message. Did I do something else wrong???My delete button is about worn out.Ralph from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Mar 21 15:52:05 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Ferrule material Don,Let me know if anyone makes ferrules from the stuff. I would try them.Ernie -----Original Message----- ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Ferrule material All, Amoco's Torlon (poly-amide-amide PLASTIC!!) replaced T6 Aluminium inFord'sall-plastic racing engine. It shouldn't corode in saltwater and I guesstheywon't need to be blued - the stuff is already black. Weight is lessthanAL, however, I doubt if anyone wants plastic ferrules on their $1,500bamboorod. NS works quite well because it also slides easily apart at the end of ahardday's fishing. I doubt if any AL based material would do that and if itcorroded in saltwater and locked together, it sure could be a problem. But, maybe having it anodized to a nice shade of purple would appeal tosome?(Wayne?) I believe you'll have a hard task trying to find a material that equals orexceeds all of NS's properties. Don Burns from caneman@clnk.com Tue Mar 21 17:30:42 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:27:23 -0600 Subject: Thanks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E7_01BF935A.F52BEEA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01BF935A.F52BEEA0 Thanks to everyone who responded on the question I had with the metals = the much appreciated input, I'll go ahead and punch a big chunk out of =that piece of 1" Nickel Silver bar I have. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01BF935A.F52BEEA0 Thanks to everyone who responded on the question I had with the = much appreciated input, I'll go ahead and punch a big chunk out of that = 1" Nickel Silver bar I have. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01BF935A.F52BEEA0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Mar 21 18:04:42 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:53:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule material boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF9360.364813A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF9360.364813A0 All aluminums will corrode easily in salt air/water, unless anodized ! =It's preferable to have "Hard anodizing", which is harder, and deeper =into the metal's surface. They also need to be kept lubed, with some =sort of anti- galling grease. I use a Chapstick, when around the salt ! =N.S. is much more preferable for the salt ! Most recent alum. ferrules =have an "O" ring to seal, and stabilize the connection. GMA GMA Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:48 AMSubject: Re: Ferrule material George,how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned in a prev post I found my =climbing gear corroded when used around (actually sometimes in) the =marine environment very quickly, almost before my eyes. I sort of saved =the gear by washing in fresh water and WD-40ing everything but pitting =still occured. Tony Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6, is the =strongest, until it is heated to 450 deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but =at 450 F., 7075 loses all strength, and falls straight down on the =graph, while 2024, only falls gradually. T-6 condition is very hard to =find, unless you live in big aircraft building areas. T-351 is much =easier to find, and doesn't work harden like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you =can get it, 2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it's =maintains its strength, and the pounding in engines, running at over 30K =rpm ! GMA Subject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules on = Does any one the list have any experience using some of the = aluminum in ferrules? danny =/************************************************************************=*/ Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************= ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF9360.364813A0 All aluminums will corrode easily in salt air/water, unless= anodized ! It's preferable to have "Hard anodizing", which is harder, = into the metal's surface. They also need to be kept lubed, with some = anti-galling grease. I use a Chapstick, when around the salt ! N.S. is = preferable for the salt ! Most recent alum. ferrules have an "O" ring to = and stabilize the connection. GMA GMA ----- Original Message ----- Young Cc: danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Ferrule =materialGeorge,how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned= prev post I found my climbing gear corroded when used around (actually = sometimes in) the marine environment very quickly, almost before my = sort of saved the gear by washing in fresh water and WD-40ing = pitting still occured.TonyAt 07:40 AM 3/21/00 -0600,= wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively = 7075 -T6, is the strongest, until it is heated to 450 deg. F.. = parallels it, but at 450 F., 7075 loses all strength, and falls = down on the graph, while 2024, only falls gradually. T-6 condition = hard to find, unless you live in big aircraft building areas. T-351 = easier to find, and doesn't work harden like 7075 = 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you can get = 2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it's maintains its = !GMA ----- Original Message ----- Twang Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 = Subject: Ferrule materialIn an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules = Does any one the list have any experience using some of the = aluminum in ferrules? danny =/*******************************************************************=******/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.= =It/************************************************************= = ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF9360.364813A0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Mar 21 18:14:01 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Need help identifying some of the '99 Mid-Atlantic Rodmakersinphotos... Hi Art! Yes the group pic is near impossible, I might try to have it enlarged thenrescan... It will be fuzzy as the light was all wrong... I complained butthe participants wanted the shade... So far I see Ron Barsch, Eileen and Harold Demarest, Lucy & David (the uglyguy... his words, not mine) Fitch, John Zimny, Tom Whittle, Joe Byrd, Marty(Horsho), Jerry Girard, you, me... Well I certainly had a fun time meeting everyone... Wild? Some day, we can talk about wild... but I wouldn't define thisgathering as wild... definitely fun however! Keep those names coming!!! Darrellwww.vFish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Need help identifying some of the '99 Mid-AtlanticRodmakers inphotos... Dennis,Thanks for the HUGE pic!In "mill-1" the bald fellow with the sunglasses is Jerry Girard. He'sthecollector you had lunch with (along with Dennis and me). The fellow turnedsideways may be Dennis Higham. Check that one before you post it, but Ithink I'm correct.In "makers" the one in the green shirt on the left is Bill Harms.In "zimny", the man on the left is the inimitable Bill Fink, and the2nd-from-the-left is Chris Bogart.As for the "grouppic" fuhgeddaboutit! ;-)It was great fun wasn't it? Can we expect you'll do something so wild nextyear?Art At 12:48 PM 03/21/2000 -0800, you wrote:Friends, Found a missing roll of film the other day and lo and behold, it containedpictures of the Boiling Springs Gathering from Sept. 99. I've posted them on my brand new, one day old web site at www.vFish.netandyou'll find the nav link in the lower left hand corner of the home page. Ifyou would be so kind as to help me identify some of the participants inthepics and if could identify some of the equipment such as the other largerbeveler next to Al M's beveler that would be greatly appreciated. Enjoyed meeting everyone there, Tom Smithwick's chili, Fred'shospitality,Joe Byrd's cigars and everyone's friendliness... This new site gives me the extra space I wanted... going from 10 megs to300megs... I'm also looking for web authors who would like to have theirarticles published on my web site that covers bamboo fly rodconstruction,repair and collecting. If you find any weird or missing links on the site, please report them tome... Thanks, Regards, Darrell Leewww.vFish.net from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Mar 21 22:10:42 2000 Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:10:03 +0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule material , types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_5209098==_.ALT" --=====================_5209098==_.ALT George,I've never seen Al ferrules but they obviously do work. Are these somehowannodised or do you just need to take care with their use like keep lubedorsimmilar? Tony At 06:06 PM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: All aluminums will corrode easily in salt air/water, unless anodized !It'spreferable to have "Hard anodizing", which is harder, and deeper into themetal's surface. They also need to be kept lubed, with some sort ofanti- galling grease. I use a Chapstick, when around the salt ! N.S. is muchmore preferable for the salt ! Most recent alum. ferrules have an "O"ring toseal, and stabilize the connection. GMA GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Young Cc:danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Ferrule material George, how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned in a prev post I found myclimbing gear corroded when used around (actually sometimes in) themarineenvironment very quickly, almost before my eyes. I sort of saved thegear bywashing in fresh water and WD-40ing everything but pitting stilloccured. Tony At 07:40 AM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6, is thestrongest,until it is heated to 450 deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but at 450 F.,7075 loses all strength, and falls straight down on the graph, while2024,only falls gradually. T-6 condition is very hard to find, unless you livein big aircraft building areas. T-351 is much easier to find, and doesn'twork harden like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you cangetit, 2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it's maintains itsstrength, and the pounding in engines, running at over 30K rpm ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Danny Twang Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 AM Subject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules on The Midge rods to keep the weight down. Does any one the list have any experience using some of the "new" aluminum in ferrules? regards danny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_5209098==_.ALT George,I've never seen Al ferrules but they obviously do work. Are these somehowannodised or do you just need to take care with their use like keep lubedor simmilar? Tony At 06:06 PM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: All aluminums will corrode easily in saltair/water, unless anodized ! It's preferable to have "Hardanodizing", which is harder, and deeper into the metal's surface.They also need to be kept lubed, with some sort of anti-galling grease. Iuse a Chapstick, when around the salt ! N.S. is much more preferable forthe salt ! Most recent alum. ferrules have an "O" ring to seal,and stabilize the connection. GMA GMA ----- Original Message ----- From:Tony Young Cc: danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:48 AMSubject: Re: Ferrule material George,how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned in a prev post I found myclimbing gear corroded when usedaround (actually sometimes in) the marine environment very quickly,almost before my eyes. I sort of saved thegear by washing in fresh water and WD-40ing everything but pitting stilloccured. Tony At 07:40 AM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6, is thestrongest, until it is heated to 450 deg.F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but at 450 F., 7075 loses all strength, and fallsstraight down on the graph, while2024, only falls gradually. T-6 condition is very hard to find, unless youlive in big aircraft buildingareas. T-351 is much easier to find, and doesn't work harden like 7075does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy. If you canget it, 2024-T6, is the choice forconnecting rods, as it's maintains its strength, and the pounding inengines, running at over 30K rpm! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 AM Subject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferrules on The Midge rods to keep the weight down. Does any one the list have any experience using some of the"new" aluminum in ferrules? regards danny /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_5209098==_.ALT-- from saweiss@flash.net Wed Mar 22 00:33:08 2000 Subject: PHY Midge boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AF_01BF938D.C7F72D40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01BF938D.C7F72D40 Has anyone noticed that the tapers in the Rodmakers taper file and the =one in Howell's book are quite different from each other? I'd like to =feel a little more confident about which numbers to use. I have read =that Paul Young's rods had a lot of variance among the same models. =Does anyone have a PHY midge taper that is different , or that confirms =either one of the ones I mentioned?Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01BF938D.C7F72D40 Has anyone noticed that thetapers = Rodmakers taper file and the one in Howell's book are quite different = other? I'd like to feel a little more confident about which numbers to = mentioned?Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01BF938D.C7F72D40-- from channer1@rmi.net Wed Mar 22 01:21:13 2000 Subject: Re: PHY Midge Steven Weiss wrote: Has anyone noticed that the tapers in the Rodmakers taper file and theone in Howell's book are quite different from each other? I'd like tofeel a little more confident about which numbers to use. I have readthat Paul Young's rods had a lot of variance among the same models.Does anyone have a PHY midge taper that is different , or thatconfirms either one of the ones I mentioned?SteveSteve;Iwas just having the same problem with the perfectionist taper. I made afew using the taper from george Maurer's book and I ran the one in JackHowell's book thru Hexrod to turn it aroound, and it is different, too.As for the Midge, I have built 3 using the taper from the archives(Iconverted it to 2 pc.) and they are great little rods. I have aboutdecided that it is probably unlikely to find 2 rods that measure thesame, too many variables possible, not to mention the normal tweakingand tuning of tapers that undoubtedly went on.John from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Mar 22 05:34:23 2000 0000 (204.186.33.14) Subject: Re: PHY Midge Steven Weiss wrote: Has anyone noticed that the tapers in the Rodmakers taper file and theone in Howell's book are quite different from each other? I'd like tofeel a little more confident about which numbers to use. I have readthat Paul Young's rods had a lot of variance among the same models.Does anyone have a PHY midge taper that is different , or thatconfirms either one of the ones I mentioned?SteveI have a PY Midge built during Paul's tenure (serial #36xx). Here is thetaper over varnish and averaged across three flats. 00 .06905 .07610 .09315 .11120 .12325 .14130 .15635 .17040 .18545 .19950 .20955 .22760 .23365 .242I have miked many rods over the years and have never found two rods ofthe same model with identical tapers. Buy the way the most accurate Ihave found are by Orvis followed by Payne. Marty from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed Mar 22 05:59:17 2000 (HELO localhost) Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:57:26 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:58:56 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: PHY Midge I miked an Orvis 7/4 a couple of weeks ago and was not very impressed.The difference between the three flats was great, and it had ugly unevengluelines.Also looked like the lines was filled with epoxy.T&T was very accurate, so was Sharps and Hardys...... danny I have miked many rods over the years and have never found two rods ofthe same model with identical tapers. Buy the way the most accurate Ihave found are by Orvis followed by Payne. Marty from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed Mar 22 06:02:21 2000 (HELO localhost) Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:00:31 +0100 munin.funn.no(Data Fellows SMTPRS 2.04) with ESMTP id;Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:01:52 +0100 CALucker@aol.comSubject: Re: Ferrule material Does anyone on the list have any comments about using a snake guideinstead ofstripper? regardsdanny CALucker@aol.com wrote: I have been using the Paul Young aluminum ferrules on small rods foryears.The secret to making them stick is Pliobond. That is the substance thatPHYrefers to in the catalogue -- the stuff used to attach the metal sheet tothesubsurface hulls of PT Boats. The ferrules were made by FeatherweightProducts in So. California. They came in black, clear and maroon finish.They did not have an O ring.I would send you some, but I have sent all my extras off to Bob Summerssothat he can do restoration work. Perfectionists aswell. I have owned two different Perfectionists in the lightweight style--no stripper guide, aluminum ferrules. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 22 06:50:05 2000 Subject: WARNING NOT RODMAKING RELATED I know I'll be castigated for this and if anybody wants to comment off listthat's ok but I've been asked by several people of late about the gun lawsthat we have here in Australia.I'm writing this here because I know there are about 600 people who*may*be interested in knowing there is some serious propaganda being aimed atyou and you may not see the real story. I'll say right here I am not an anti gun nut. I don't currently own a gunor rifle because I live in an area with nothing but rabbits which I'm quitehappy to leave alone but if I move to someplace where there is game I'llown a rifle or two again.I guess I've accounted for a few hundred Buffalo and thousands of pigswhenI was paid along with others to rid what is now Kakadu National Park ofthese vermin. I also shot Sika Deer in New Zealand as a meat hunter whereIshot 2-3 a week on ave for 6 months as well as sundry other Chamois,Tahrand Wapiti plus foxes and even Kangaroos for a while. I say all this tomake the point I am not against hunting nor gun ownership. I just watched a program on the TV showing what the NRA is tellingAmericans. I just watched with disbelief Charlton Heston tell with astraight face the biggest load of old cobblers out of Hollywood provingthere are lies, damn lies and statistics using "statistics" of crime andviolence committed here in Aust since the auto gun ban here a few yearsback. I was so incensed with this total BS I felt obliged to make a gestureif nothing else at trying to counter what I heard. Let me tell you with no doubt at all gun related crime has dropped.Violence in general has remained about the same, home invasion is not anewphenomena and is at about the same frequency as it always has been in thelast 20 years and guns never figured in it one way or the other becausehere we've never been able to shoot bad guys and get away with it. If youshot or shoot a home invader or bugler you can expect to go to goal for it,probably longer than the bad guy got for causing the problem in the firstplace. Most home invasions here anyway are done by drug crazed kids whowouldn't think any more of being shot than of being hit by a meteor.In Aust the states all have different gun laws, always have and some aremore strict than others. In Queensland until about 10 years back you didn'teven need a gun licence to own anything other than a handgun and the licwas only for statistical purposes to see how many *people* currentlyownedguns but not how many *guns* the lic holder had.The "statistics" touted on the NRA propaganda are wrong. Nobody relatedtothe production is prepared to say where they dug them up and no officialstats are within a bull's roar of them. To set the record straight, you cannot own an auto or semi auto weapon.Unfortunately that includes shotguns. This is the ONLY law of effectcommonto all states of Aust relating to guns. In most states you can own as many bolt action rifles as you like.Hundredsof them if you want, thousands even. Handguns have always hadrestrictionsand nothing at all changed after the new laws, in fact handguns are theonly weapons you can now own that are semi auto. If you feel everybody should have the right to own assault weapons youwould feel the gun laws here are Draconian and the reason you may feelthatway may be as much a political one as anything else, otherwise forget thetripe being shown, at least as far as Australia is concerned. Until these new laws came about we had on average for the last 5-6 yearsbefore the new laws at least one madman going berserk with a gun andshooting people every 7-8 months which pretty much level pegged the US.Considering there are only 19 million of us out here that's a pretty badstat. The last massacre that occurred here was the one in Port Arthur inTassie that caused the laws to be enacted and that was a few years backnow, so I guess you can draw any conclusion you like. Again, I apologize for using this forum to write this but I just had to do it. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Mar 22 09:50:01 2000 Subject: SB Lathe One of my customers has a SB lathe for sale. It is a 9" with a 3 ft bed. It is in excellent shape and with all the tooling that comes with it ,it is a bargain. It is old but I called SB Lathe and they said they have all the parts to fix anything that goes wrong. I know the guy who had this and he was very particular about his stuff. This lathe came out of the old Studebaker factory here in So. Bend. If anyone is interested let me knowand I will make the necessary arrangements. They are asking $1200.00. Ichecked a couple places including SBL and this seems to be a fair price with eveything it has. Bret from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Mar 22 09:50:06 2000 Subject: Re: PHY Midge I had the pleasure of talking to Mr. Whitehead on the phone-nice guy by the way. He had special affection for the Midge taper in "The Reed" in recommending it for the small streams in WI. Anyway, he said he got that taper from a collection of over 20 Midges some customer of his owned He claimed it was the best of the twenty, so I'm assuming there was alot of variance there... Rob Hoffhines from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 22 09:58:58 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:55:36 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Ferrule material Danny,I come across a lot of older rods that use a snake guide for thestripper guide. Don't know if it is really any disadvantage, I just likethe looks of a SRMC guide there. Bob-----Original Message----- CALucker@aol.com Subject: Re: Ferrule material Does anyone on the list have any comments about using a snake guideinsteadofstripper? regardsdanny CALucker@aol.com wrote: I have been using the Paul Young aluminum ferrules on small rods foryears.The secret to making them stick is Pliobond. That is the substance thatPHYrefers to in the catalogue -- the stuff used to attach the metal sheet tothesubsurface hulls of PT Boats. The ferrules were made by FeatherweightProducts in So. California. They came in black, clear and maroon finish.They did not have an O ring.I would send you some, but I have sent all my extras off to BobSummerssothat he can do restoration work. Perfectionistsaswell. I have owned two different Perfectionists in the lightweightstyle --no stripper guide, aluminum ferrules. from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 22 10:55:26 2000 Subject: Re: PHY Midge Hi Danny,My experience measuring Orvis rods is similar to yours. In particular I'venoticed that the older Orvis rods were made much better then the recentones. The quality of their rods has certainly diminished.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PHY Midge I miked an Orvis 7/4 a couple of weeks ago and was not very impressed.The difference between the three flats was great, and it had ugly unevengluelines.Also looked like the lines was filled with epoxy.T&T was very accurate, so was Sharps and Hardys...... danny I have miked many rods over the years and have never found two rodsofthe same model with identical tapers. Buy the way the most accurate Ihave found are by Orvis followed by Payne. Marty from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 22 13:37:35 2000 Subject: Re: Ferrule material CALucker@aol.com Danny, CALucker, et al.,The Pliobond I use for gluing cork is a rubber type cement. Is that what was used to glue aluminum ferrules and PT boats?Will it work on NS ferrules?Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Mar 22 19:40:41 2000 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:39:06 -0800 "saweiss@flash.net" (4.10.1998) boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963552=_=_=_"Subject: Re: PHY Midge --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963552=_=_=_ Steve It is a simple game of pay your money and take your chances. I have taken tapers from original rods and at times several of thesame= maker and model (Dickerson 861711 for example) and each are different.I=havemic's a Dickerson 7613 original that I have cast and liked and the Howel=l bookhas two versions of the same model but different. So if you want some co=mfortget a good bottle of bourbon, if you want a good taper - start with one =that youhave actually cast and like - take the numbers and go from there. It is =all a crapshoot if you use other peoples numbers. Chris --Original Message Text--- Has anyone noticed that the tapers in the Rodmakers taper file and the o=ne in Howell's book are quite different from each other? I'd like to feel a little more confident about which numbers to u=se. I have read that Paul Young's rods had a lot of variance=FFamong the same models. Does anyone have a PHY midge tapertha=t is different , or that confirms either one of the ones I mentioned?Steve --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963552=_=_=_ Steve It is a simple game of pay your money and take your chances. I have taken tapers from original rods and at times several of the s=amemaker and model (Dickerson 861711 for example) and each are different.I=havemic's a Dickerson 7613 original that I have cast and liked and the Howel=l bookhas two versions of the same model but different. So if you want some co=mfortget a good bottle of bourbon, if you want a good taper - start with one =that youhave actually cast and like - take the numbers and go from there. It is =all a crapshoot if you use other peoples numbers. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Steven WeissDate: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:32:54 -0700 Has anyone noticed that the tapers in the Rodmakers taper file and the =one in Howell's book are quite different from each other? I'd like to fe=el a little more confident about which numbers to use. I have read that =Paul Young's rods had a lot of variancethe same models. Does anyone have=a PHY midge taper that is different, or that confirms either one=of the ones I mentioned?Steve --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963552=_=_=_-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 22 20:36:52 2000 Subject: Frankenrod photos Seeing Darrell Lee's photo's of the Mid Atlantic Gathering reminded methat I ought to post a few shots of the 2 strip PMQ I glued up there. If interested, go to :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwick Frankenrod1 shows a general photo of the grip and the ebony reel seat. Frankenrod2 gives a view of the side of the rod near the grip. The dark patches are the ends of the resourcinol nodeless splices. Ugly, I admit, but the rod seems very rugged, in spite of being put together out of scrap pieces kicking around the shop. Frankenrod3 shows the ferrule method used. The ferrules are not serrated,and not squared. They are oversized, so that only the very corners of the blank were dressed off. Strips of hardwood about 1/4" longer than the ferruleseat area were glued to each flat. Then the seat area was turned to size. The ferrule was mounted, and then the remaining 1/4" of the wood strips was whittled and sanded until it faired into the blank. Thread wraps cover this transition area. I would use truncated ferrules to make up for the weight added by the extra diameter. As you can see, the result is not so badlooking. I'm not picking on Shawn with this Frankenrod business, I noted hisobjection a couple weeks ago, but some of us do build them on purpose. In this case, given the black/ red color scheme ( doesn't show much in the photo's),maybe I should have called it the vampire rod. The taper is an adaptation of the PHY Midge at the Rodmakers Page. It is a fine taper, but I note that the rod has an unusual "sweet spot" whendistance casting. If you get just the right amount of line in the air it will deliver a really fast, tight loop, and shoot a whole lot of line. If you miss by just a bit performance drops way off. Has anyone who has built the taper as ahex noticed the same thing? from channer1@rmi.net Wed Mar 22 21:14:30 2000 Subject: Re: Frankenrod photos The taper is an adaptation of the PHY Midge at the Rodmakers Page. It isafine taper, but I note that the rod has an unusual "sweet spot" whendistancecasting. If you get just the right amount of line in the air it will delivera really fast, tight loop, and shoot a whole lot of line. If you miss by justa bit performance drops way off. Has anyone who has built the taper as ahexnoticed the same thing?Tom;I have made 3 of them(hex's all) and the only sweet spot I have noticedis the whole rod and any length of line you can handle. I really likethis rod and someday I am going to make one for myself.John from Bamboomaker@aol.com Wed Mar 22 21:22:10 2000 Subject: Staggered Ferrule Pezon & Michel Hello, I just cast a wonderful Pezon & Michel 7' 7" Colorado 4 oz 'super-parabolic progressive' PPP (5/6wt). I enjoyed casting it far better than the original payne 7' 9" parabolic (side by side casting). The Pezon & Michel uses a staggered ferrule design with the butt sectiononly 39" long and a pair of tips 53". Assembled, it is 7' 7". What is the expert opinion about the effect of staggered ferrule on the action of the rod? I just wanted to know because I just might 'convert' the taper into an unstaggered ferrule design. Thanks Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 22 21:27:12 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:27:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Frankenrod photos boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF9445.AED34980" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF9445.AED34980 I tend to agree. I've had mine since 1954, and within its limits, it's =pure pleasure to fish with. It was never designed to shoot 50' to 60', =but to work clear, small streams, and fish ! Paul admonished me once, = GMA Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:16 PMSubject: Re: Frankenrod photos The taper is an adaptation of the PHY Midge at the Rodmakers Page. =It is afine taper, but I note that the rod has an unusual "sweet spot" when =distancecasting. If you get just the right amount of line in the air it will =delivera really fast, tight loop, and shoot a whole lot of line. If you =miss by justa bit performance drops way off. Has anyone who has built the taper =as a hexnoticed the same thing?Tom;I have made 3 of them(hex's all) and the only sweet spot I have =noticedis the whole rod and any length of line you can handle. I really likethis rod and someday I am going to make one for myself.John ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF9445.AED34980 I tend to agree. I've had mine since 1954, and within its = it's pure pleasure to fish with. It was never designed to shoot 50' to = to work clear, small streams, and fish ! Paul admonished me once, for = 3-1/2 lb. spotted bass on it ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- channer = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000= PMSubject: Re: Frankenrod =photos = performance drops way off. Has anyone who has built the taper as a = noticed the same thing?Tom;I have made 3 of them(hex's all) = only sweet spot I have noticedis the whole rod and any length of = can handle. I really likethis rod and someday I am going to make = myself.John ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF9445.AED34980-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 23 00:48:20 2000 Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:47:07 +0800 Subject: Re: Frankenrod photos I'll second that. For a small rod it can handle a lot of line. Tony At 08:16 PM 3/22/00 -0700, channer wrote: The taper is an adaptation of the PHY Midge at the Rodmakers Page. It isafine taper, but I note that the rod has an unusual "sweet spot" whendistancecasting. If you get just the right amount of line in the air it willdelivera really fast, tight loop, and shoot a whole lot of line. If you miss byjusta bit performance drops way off. Has anyone who has built the taper asahexnoticed the same thing?Tom;I have made 3 of them(hex's all) and the only sweet spot I have noticedis the whole rod and any length of line you can handle. I really likethis rod and someday I am going to make one for myself.John /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Mar 23 03:43:49 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Frankenrod photos Hi Tom, Would you mind if I added the finished rod pic of yours to my page? Looksnice! No electrical tap ferrule... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Frankenrod photos Seeing Darrell Lee's photo's of the Mid Atlantic Gathering reminded methatIought to post a few shots of the 2 strip PMQ I glued up there. Ifinterested,go to :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwick Frankenrod1 shows a general photo of the grip and the ebony reel seat. Frankenrod2 gives a view of the side of the rod near the grip. The darkpatches are the ends of the resourcinol nodeless splices. Ugly, I admit, butthe rod seems very rugged, in spite of being put together out of scrappieces kicking around the shop. Frankenrod3 shows the ferrule method used. The ferrules are not serrated,andnot squared. They are oversized, so that only the very corners of the blankwere dressed off. Strips of hardwood about 1/4" longer than the ferruleseatarea were glued to each flat. Then the seat area was turned to size. Theferrule was mounted, and then the remaining 1/4" of the wood strips waswhittled and sanded until it faired into the blank. Thread wraps cover thistransition area. I would use truncated ferrules to make up for the weightadded by the extra diameter. As you can see, the result is not so badlooking. I'm not picking on Shawn with this Frankenrod business, I noted hisobjectiona couple weeks ago, but some of us do build them on purpose. In this case,given the black/ red color scheme ( doesn't show much in the photo's),maybeI should have called it the vampire rod. The taper is an adaptation of the PHY Midge at the Rodmakers Page. It is afine taper, but I note that the rod has an unusual "sweet spot" whendistancecasting. If you get just the right amount of line in the air it will delivera really fast, tight loop, and shoot a whole lot of line. If you miss byjusta bit performance drops way off. Has anyone who has built the taper as ahexnoticed the same thing? from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Mar 23 08:01:03 2000 Subject: Frankenrod photo The ferrule photo was not very good. I got some better light here this AMand took another. It is listed as Frankenrod4http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickThe ferrules are old, lightweight stamped ferrules that are no longer available. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 23 11:19:18 2000 Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:18:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Frankenrod photos Tom,very nice! I was considering building a 2 strip for my daughter'sbirthday and the Midge would make a fine first rod for her. She is onlygoing tobe 7 and I have lots of pieces of bamboo that would work! Now I just needthe timeto do it! Shawn TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Seeing Darrell Lee's photo's of the Mid Atlantic Gathering reminded methat Iought to post a few shots of the 2 strip PMQ I glued up there. Ifinterested,go to :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwick Frankenrod1 shows a general photo of the grip and the ebony reel seat. Frankenrod2 gives a view of the side of the rod near the grip. The darkpatches are the ends of the resourcinol nodeless splices. Ugly, I admit,butthe rod seems very rugged, in spite of being put together out of scrappieces kicking around the shop. Frankenrod3 shows the ferrule method used. The ferrules are notserrated, andnot squared. They are oversized, so that only the very corners of theblankwere dressed off. Strips of hardwood about 1/4" longer than the ferruleseatarea were glued to each flat. Then the seat area was turned to size. Theferrule was mounted, and then the remaining 1/4" of the wood stripswaswhittled and sanded until it faired into the blank. Thread wraps coverthistransition area. I would use truncated ferrules to make up for the weightadded by the extra diameter. As you can see, the result is not so badlooking. I'm not picking on Shawn with this Frankenrod business, I noted hisobjectiona couple weeks ago, but some of us do build them on purpose. In thiscase,given the black/ red color scheme ( doesn't show much in the photo's),maybeI should have called it the vampire rod. The taper is an adaptation of the PHY Midge at the Rodmakers Page. It isafine taper, but I note that the rod has an unusual "sweet spot" whendistancecasting. If you get just the right amount of line in the air it will delivera really fast, tight loop, and shoot a whole lot of line. If you miss by justa bit performance drops way off. Has anyone who has built the taper as ahexnoticed the same thing? from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Mar 23 17:34:11 2000 15:39:22 PST Subject: re: Question on flattening nodes I use a large vise, so pressure is obtained without a lot of effort. I made a set of oak jaws that basically have two large flat "teeth" on one surface and one large flat "tooth" on the opposing surface. When the jaws areclosed the single "tooth" fits between the two "teeth" on the opposing surface. With this setup it's pretty easy to both straighten the crooks commonlyfound above and below the nodes as well as press the node bump down flat, ifthere is a bump to press. I heat the node area up over a propane heater, that also keeps me warm in the Winter. This works better then an open flame for me, in that it heatsthe area up without being quick to burn the bamboo. Of course it will burn itif you heat it too long. I can then situate the strip however I want and work the vise back andforth with the "teeth" squeezing and manipulating the node while rotating or shifting the strip until it is straight and pressed. The teeth are about 1/2" wide and smoothed so there are no sharp edges to gouge the bamboo. Because the teeth fit closely together when the vise is closed you can produce a lot of torque in a tight space. This is nice for the small crooks found above and below the nodes in many culms where it's difficult tohand straighten. I guess this would be the system you describe as having the unsupportedarea the correction so that when the pressure of the vise is realeased the material rebounds to some degree. You get used to how much over extension is necessary to get the desired results. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- Guys, from what I've heard there seems to be two different methods forflatteningnodes. The first involves cleaning off the pith side of the node, thenheating and flattening in a vise. The second method is the same EXCEPTinstead of flattening so that both pith and enamel sides are flat some sortof offset device is used so that as the node is put under pressure the areaimmediately under the node is unsupported thus allowing room to, I'll callit , reverse bend the nodal fibers and as pressure is relieved the fiberswill be straight. (I know I left out the business about a piece of materialcontacting the node only to help depress the fibers into the unsupportedarea).Now, first off, do I have these two methods basiclly straight, and second,is one preferable over the other or is there no real difference beyondpersonal preference? Thanks, Mike (Still wading through stress curves) from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Mar 23 18:11:16 2000 Subject: Fwd: Heddon help boundary="part1_b3.1cf431d.260c0c82_boundary" --part1_b3.1cf431d.260c0c82_boundary --part1_b3.1cf431d.260c0c82_boundary Full-name: Nodewrrior Subject: Heddon help I seem to remember a post that some one had some old Heddon parts theymight be willing to sell (Brian?). Well, I need a ferrule set, and I'm trying to keep from the trouble of refitting modern step-downs for this 9' #17 I (mistakenly) took on for a restoration.Any advice would be appreciated... Rob Hoffhines --part1_b3.1cf431d.260c0c82_boundary-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Mar 23 19:38:12 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8B249270066; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:45:22 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule material boundary="------------6739F0DC8CBA5837289774A7" --------------6739F0DC8CBA5837289774A7 Tony,The Shakespeare Wonderod has aluminum ferrules. They grip each otherlike an aluminum canoe grips a midstream rock. I spent many hours as akid heating the female before I could separate the rod sections.Best regards,Reed Tony Young wrote: George,I've never seen Al ferrules but they obviously do work. Are thesesomehow annodised or do you just need to take care with their use likekeep lubed or simmilar? Tony At 06:06 PM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: All aluminums will corrode easily in salt air/water, unless anodized! It's preferable to have "Hard anodizing", which is harder, anddeeper into the metal's surface. They also need to be kept lubed,with some sort of anti- galling grease. I use a Chapstick, whenaround the salt ! N.S. is much more preferable for the salt ! Mostrecent alum. ferrules have an "O" ring to seal, and stabilize theconnection. GMA GMA ----- Original Message -----From:Tony Young Cc: danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:48 AMSubject: Re: Ferrule material George,how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned in a prevpost I found my climbing gear corroded when usedaround (actually sometimes in) the marine environmentvery quickly, almost before my eyes. I sort of savedthe gear by washing in fresh water and WD-40ingeverything but pitting still occured. Tony At 07:40 AM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075-T6, is the strongest, until it is heated to 450deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallels it, but at 450 F., 7075loses all strength, and falls straight down on thegraph, while 2024, only falls gradually. T-6condition is very hard to find, unless you live inbig aircraft building areas. T-351 is much easier tofind, and doesn't work harden like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strengthalloy. If you can get it, 2024-T6, is the choice forconnecting rods, as it's maintains its strength, andthe pounding in engines, running at over 30K rpm ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: Danny Twang Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 AMSubject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminumferrules on TheMidge rods to keep the weight down.Does any one the list have any experience using someof the "new"aluminum in ferrules? regardsdanny / ************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It *************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AVYoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlAndthisour life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books inrunning brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.WilliamShakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --------------6739F0DC8CBA5837289774A7 Tony, They grip each other like an aluminum canoe grips a midstream rock. Ispentmany hours as a kid heating the female before I could separate the rodsections.Best regards,ReedTony Young wrote: I've never seen Al ferrules but they obviously do work. Are thesesomehowannodised or do you just need to take care with their use like keep lubedor simmilar?TonyAt 06:06 PM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote:All aluminums will corrode easily in saltair/water, unless anodized ! It's preferable to have "Hard anodizing",which is harder, and deeper into the metal's surface. They also need tobe kept lubed, with some sort of anti- galling grease. I use a Chapstick,when around the salt ! N.S. is much more preferable for the salt ! Mostrecent alum. ferrules have an "O" ring to seal, and stabilize theconnection.GMAGMA ----- Original Message ----- From:TonyYoung Cc: danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Ferrule material George, how does the 7075 go with salt? I mentioned in a prev postI found my climbing gear corroded when used around (actually sometimesin) the marine environment very quickly, almost before my eyes. I sortof saved the gear by washing in fresh water and WD-40ing everything butpitting still occured. Tony At 07:40 AM 3/21/00 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I use alum. alloys extensively every day. 7075 -T6,is the strongest, until it is heated to 450 deg. F.. 2024-T6 parallelsit, but at 450 F., 7075 loses all strength, and falls straight down onthe graph, while 2024, only falls gradually. T-6 condition is very hardto find, unless you live in big aircraft building areas. T-351 is mucheasier to find, and doesn't work harden like 7075 does. I use 2024-T351, as a general purpose high strength alloy.If you can get it, 2024-T6, is the choice for connecting rods, as it'smaintains its strength, and the pounding in engines, running at over 30Krpm ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: DannyTwang Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:27 AM Subject: Ferrule material In an old catalog from PHY, I read he used aluminum ferruleson The Midge rods to keep the weight down. Does any one the list have any experience using some of the"new" aluminum in ferrules? regards danny /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. You Like It/*************************************************************************/ this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tonguesin trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones,and good in everything.William You Like It/*************************************************************************/ --------------6739F0DC8CBA5837289774A7-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Mar 24 06:49:18 2000 Subject: Montague ferrules All:Please contact me off list if you can provide, or recommend a source for,Monty ferrules for a few restorations.TIA.Ed from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Mar 24 07:39:26 2000 Subject: blueing HI ALL,I have been blueing my ferrules and hardware .I am using the payne blueing formula , after blueing i dip in a laquer clear . The problem