Subject: Re: Titebond II glue George:Does the Pro Bond foam like the Gorilla Glue does? I have not used the GG week, that the foaming action can get messy though if it foams out of the reel seat cavity.Are these glues the same thing?Bob At 08:30 AM 5/21/00 -0500, you wrote: poly-u yet. It has a nice working time, sets fairly fast, and it's hard tosee any glue line. So far I've used it to re-glue separated and brokensections, in restoration, setting ferrules and reel seats, as well asrepairing cork grips. GMA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 21 09:10:55 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 21 May 2000 08:57:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Titebond II glue Yes the ProBond does foam, due to water being its catalyst. You alwayswetthe surfaces before applying the glue. I find that most of the foamingoccurs within the first 20 min. or so, and wiping it away does no harm tothe joints. The reel seat I installed had a "breather hole", and all thefoaming exited there. I just wiped it away, and it stopped after about 15min's.. When gluing up separations, I double wrapped, and wiped away the foaminguntil it stopped. I then let them set over night. The next day, I removedthe wrapping cord, and after 24 hours, any excess scraped away easily. Abroken butt section of a Heddon casting rod is virtually invisible, afterscraping and a light sanding. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Titebond II glue George:Does the Pro Bond foam like the Gorilla Glue does? I have not used the GG week, that the foaming action can get messy though if it foams out ofthereel seat cavity.Are these glues the same thing?Bob At 08:30 AM 5/21/00 -0500, you wrote: poly-u yet. It has a nice working time, sets fairly fast, and it's hardtosee any glue line. So far I've used it to re-glue separated and brokensections, in restoration, setting ferrules and reel seats, as well asrepairing cork grips. GMA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun May 21 11:18:48 2000 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Polishing Poly Finishes I picked up some 3M Perfect-It polish today and want to use it to polish some rods done in MinWax Helmsmen poly spar varnish. I wonder:1. Will the finish dull? How do I keep it uniform if it does?2. How long does the finish have to set first? I will try on a rod several months old first, but I have some freshly varnished rods in the drying cabinet as I write. (89* or so).3. Any tips? Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun May 21 11:22:07 2000 Subject: Re: Titebond II glue Bob, On restorations I like the "foaming" for setting ferrules. It tends toexpand the glue and fill the small voids that unavoidably form when youreset a ferrule on a station that is worn and abused. Like GMA says, thestuff works wonders in repairs of delams as well. -Doug At 09:52 AM 5/21/2000 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:George:Does the Pro Bond foam like the Gorilla Glue does? I have not used the GG week, that the foaming action can get messy though if it foams out of the reel seat cavity.Are these glues the same thing?Bob At 08:30 AM 5/21/00 -0500, you wrote: poly-u yet. It has a nice working time, sets fairly fast, and it's hard tosee any glue line. So far I've used it to re-glue separated and brokensections, in restoration, setting ferrules and reel seats, as well asrepairing cork grips. GMA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun May 21 11:54:09 2000 Subject: Re: Polishing Poly Finishes In a message dated 5/21/0 4:23:12 PM, bob@downandacross.com writes: Bob - I have used the stuff on tung oil spar only, but I think your results will be similar. The stuff produces a bright polish. You can sand away any defects with 2000 grit paper, and then polish the section back to glossand blend it in with the rest of the finish. It's good stuff.I usually wait at least two weeks. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 21 11:55:13 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 21 May 2000 11:56:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Polishing Poly Finishes I plan to try polishing poly-u soon, but haven't yet. If Gorham's SilverPolish won't do it, I know of nothing with a finer grit. I'm going to wait acouple of weeks min. before I try it. If I can even find real "old style" spar varnish again, I'll wait at least amonth, with it drying at an elevated temp. ! My PHY's, done in the early'50's are still perfect. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Polishing Poly Finishes I picked up some 3M Perfect-It polish today and want to use it to polishsome rods done in MinWax Helmsmen poly spar varnish. I wonder:1. Will the finish dull? How do I keep it uniform if it does?2. How long does the finish have to set first? I will try on a rod severalmonths old first, but I have some freshly varnished rods in the dryingcabinet as I write. (89* or so).3. Any tips? Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun May 21 12:42:39 2000 Subject: Soaking a culm before splitting Tried soaking a culm before splitting, hoping that it might help inkeeping a split straight. It didn't. Did keep the number of splintersdown though.Darryl from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Sun May 21 12:49:26 2000 Subject: Re: ******WARNING NEW VIRUS****** 4CFFA7AC170310FE5701E8E8" --------------4CFFA7AC170310FE5701E8E8 Update.... The new name is VBS_NEWLOVE.A danny Martin Jensen wrote: This virus can change the subject name and the attachment name. Itpicks a name from the infected users recent documents list so everymachine it infects can send the virus along with a new name. MartinJensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TwangSent: Friday, May 19, 2000 2:06 AM Subject: ******WARNING NEW VIRUS******A new virus have arrived! It is similar to ILOVEYOU, but more powerful. The wormspreads itself via the address book,and it send itself to all an the book. The subject is "Servus Alter!" and the name of the virusis "South Park" danny --------------4CFFA7AC170310FE5701E8E8 Update.... The new name is VBS_NEWLOVE.A danny Martin Jensen wrote: virus can change the subject name and the attachment name. It picks aname from the infected users recent documents list so every machine it infectscan send the virus along with a new Jensen -----OriginalMessage-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf OfDanny TwangSent: Friday, May 19,20002:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:******WARNING NEWVIRUS******A new virus have arrived! It is similar to ILOVEYOU, but more powerful. The worm spreads itselfvia the address book,and it send itself to all an the book. virus is "South Park" danny --------------4CFFA7AC170310FE5701E8E8-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Sun May 21 12:52:08 2000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: A Question in Theory What about the damp You get in the blank.....? danny Seth Steinzor wrote: I would have to say that the main source of crookedness is bamboo, justasin furniture-making the main source of warping is wood. Its inherent inthematerial. If you handle it properly you minimize the problem. By theway,I just discovered that heating your glued blank over a steaming teakettlewhile applying gentle but firm corrective pressure is a great way toremovelong twists and sweeps. About 30 seconds of this and then remove itfromthe steam and hold it while it cools and presto - nice and straight. Makesme wonder why I bothered buying a heat gun. -----Original Message-----From: BambooRods@aol.com [SMTP:BambooRods@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:07 PM Subject: A Question in Theory Straightening! What is the main source of "crooked" sections? Is thelargest villain the binder? If we make sections that are planedproperlydoes the problem arise with inconsistent pressure on glace? Poorlyhungafter wrap? Thoughts? from Kmnoon@aol.com Sun May 21 13:20:34 2000 Subject: Help Hi, Thomas Penrose suggested I contact you. My brother has a cane rod that needs a new ferrule joint. He lent it outand it was returned jammed and broken. The rod has the following markings. Sewell N.Dutton and SonGreenfield, MassGenuine Tonkin1200 I am not fish or work on fishing equipment (my forte is restoring old firearms) so I need to turn to others for this project. If anyone can suggest someone to do the work I would appreciate the info. Thanks Kevin from Dean_Burrill@McAfee.com Sun May 21 14:06:19 2000 21 11:37:18 2000 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Mystery rod Don,You've received good advice here, this rod is probably not a Divine,though it could be easily mistaken for one. (Notice I didn't close the doorof possibility completely as Divines continue to surpise me in theirvariety.) In addition to the points Bob Nunley brought up, Divines rarelyhave a winding check...only two models that I know of used one. To see agood close-up of Divine ferrules and reel seats, check my site atwww.burrill-ltd.com/divine. The typical wood real seat used by Divinehastwo distinct step ups to the grip, and as stated they are mortised so thereis not a foot pocket as on your rod. As Mr. Easton mentioned, EVERY post1900 Divine rod has a serial number stamped on the reel seat somewhere.Your rod has Perfection tip tops which first appear on Divines around1923,so the serial number would most likely begin with an R followed by 4numbers. They can be difficult to see at times so look carefully. The onlyexception to this rule that I've found are the Beaty reel seats. These wereall metal reel seats that Granger fans would recognize immediately. Thetypical Granger internal screw uplocking seat is almost an exact copy.There is also a scan of a Beaty on the site mentioned. I guess we haven't helped you much in identifying your rod, but itwas very fun to discuss. If your rod does have a serial number...would yoube interested in selling?? ;^) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mystery rod Don,Looking at the ferrules, I would say they are definitely Divineferrules, much like the model he started using in the mid 19"teens". Thegaudy signature wraps and the excess of intermediates is also typical of aFred Divine rod. Only thing that has me puzzled is that I can't find, inany of my books, reel seat hardware like is used on this rod. It is veryreminiscent of the Beaty reel seats, which Divine used, but not quite likeany of his I have seen... That doesn't mean it isn't a divine reel seathardware, but if it is, it's just some that I have never come across. Therope knurling you described, and what I can tell of it in the picture, isn'ttypical of Divine. He did do a lot of rope knurling on his reelseathardware, but usually the hardware was rounded, not squared in the areaknurled, and typically, the band was much longer than on this rod. The reelseat filler? Yep, that also is very Divine-ish. He commonly turned anincreased diameter on his reel seat fillers. Only problem I have with thisfiller is that every Divine wood reel seat I have ever seen was mortised.Not saying that he never made an unmortised wood filler, but I have justnever seen one, and can't find any reference to one.One last thing... The cork grip. Definitely not typical of a Divinerod. He did make many rods with full wells, most were cigar, but everydivine rod I have ever seen with a wood filler where the filler was turnedlarger at the grip end, the grip was turned down to meet blend into thewoodfiller.My conclusion.... Hell if I know! That was lots of help, huh. I wouldguess that you might have a Divine rod that has had the reelseat & gripreplaced on it. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Mystery rod Folks, Want to help me with ID'ing this rod? I can't match it with any of myproduction rod knowledge. The reelseat is not like any Montague, Heddon,H-I,South Bend or Granger that I've ever seen. Take a look the last rod on my (new ) site --> http://hometown.aol.com/canerods/Donhome.html Thanks, Don Burns PS - If anyone is attending Grayrock and needs parts for a rodrestoration,let me know and I'll bring some "stuff". from RMargiotta@aol.com Sun May 21 15:14:06 2000 Subject: Re: Payne #214 Parabolic Taper Marty: The 7'9" Parabolic came in two sizes: a 3 3/4 oz. and a 4 1/8 oz. Do you know which one this is? Also, where exactly is the "00" buttmeasurement on the taper you provided. Thanks. --Rich from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun May 21 17:54:12 2000 Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide & Guide Special boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC3CA.AB0F9B00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC3CA.AB0F9B00 I am building a rod for my 21 year old son, who may not use it very =much, but could well try it against Northern Australian saltwater =species if he uses it at all.It would appear when catering to that age =group that some genital mirroring is necessary if they are to accept a =rod; so something powerful, heavy and stiff would seem to be a given.Does anyone have any experience of the 2 Dickerson rods mentioned here. =I had pretty well decided on the guide special, but looking at the =tapers and the stress curves makes me wonder whether the Guide may not=be the better rod, and not sacrifice any of the brute force.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC3CA.AB0F9B00 I am building a rod for my 21 year old= saltwater species if he uses it at all.It would appear when catering to = group that some genital mirroring is necessary if they are to accept a = something powerful, heavy and stiff would seem to be a =given.Does anyone have any experience of the= rods mentioned here. I had pretty well decided on the guide special, but = at the tapers and the stress curves makes me wonder whether the Guide = the better rod, and not sacrifice any of the brute force.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC3CA.AB0F9B00-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun May 21 18:10:03 2000 0000 (204.186.33.5) Subject: Re: Payne #214 Parabolic Taper Hi Rich, The hanging tag says 4oz. Station 00 on the butt section wastaken as close to the female ferruleas possible. The rod had a couple missing wraps so I miked at those pointsand on the varnish right adjacentto it and the varnish at those points was .003" thick so I deducted thatmeasurment from my readings. Thereadings are an average across three flats which on a Payne are prettymuch within .001". Best, Marty Marty: The 7'9" Parabolic came in two sizes: a 3 3/4 oz. and a 4 1/8 oz. Do youknow which one this is? Also, where exactly is the "00" buttmeasurement onthe taper you provided. Thanks. --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 21 18:16:15 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 21 May 2000 18:17:23 -0500 Subject: Cross rod numbering I have two Cross single builts, and one has a number near the butt ferrule,that is partly faint. Does anyone know how these rods were numbered ?Unlikethe Double Built's from So. Bend, these have nothing near the grip, to tellwhat they are, or line size. The number looks like it might be 8652, or8252, but the first two are very faint. Anyone have any data on these ?Therod is just under 9', at 8'- 11.5", and the tips are full length. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide & Guide Special I am building a rod for my 21 year old son, who may not use it very much,but could well try it against Northern Australian saltwater species if heuses it at all.It would appear when catering to that age group that somegenital mirroring is necessary if they are to accept a rod; so somethingpowerful, heavy and stiff would seem to be a given.Does anyone have any experience of the 2 Dickerson rods mentioned here. Ihad pretty well decided on the guide special, but looking at the tapers andthe stress curves makes me wonder whether the Guide may not be thebetterrod, and not sacrifice any of the brute force.Peter from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 21 18:20:57 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 21 May 2000 18:22:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Dickerson 8015 Guide & Guide Special I'd go with the PHY Texas General, or his Parabolic #11. I have a #11, andcan supply the measurements. It's a 9.5', while the T.G. was 8.5'. The T.G.is in the archives as a 9.5', but the two I had were both 8.5'. GMA GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide & Guide Special I am building a rod for my 21 year old son, who may not use it very much,but could well try it against Northern Australian saltwater species if heuses it at all.It would appear when catering to that age group that somegenital mirroring is necessary if they are to accept a rod; so somethingpowerful, heavy and stiff would seem to be a given.Does anyone have any experience of the 2 Dickerson rods mentioned here. Ihad pretty well decided on the guide special, but looking at the tapers andthe stress curves makes me wonder whether the Guide may not be thebetterrod, and not sacrifice any of the brute force.Peter from hartzell@easystreet.com Sun May 21 19:11:46 2000 RAA09800 Subject: B.B. Beegle Anyone:I would be interested in knowing more about a rodmaker namer B.B.Beegle who made a 7'- 4 weight rod for the Trout Unlimited 25thAnniversary auction that sold for circa 600 dollars? Any info would beappreciatedEd Hartzell from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun May 21 20:11:16 2000 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Folsum #1615 (Heddon)Wraps Most of the #14's I've seen have a rolled welt and the #20's hand a betterHW design. But with private label rods, anything is possible. Darrell-----Original Message----- Easton Subject: Re: Folsum #1615 (Heddon)Wraps At 10:16 AM 5/19/2000 EDT, Canerods@aol.com wrote:The #1515 is listed in the Sinclair Heddon book as being the same as aHeddon#14 and sold for $15. Heddon #14's have chinese red wraps with/withoutblacktipping depending upon mfg. era. Some #14's had wood reelseats. I assume that a #1615 is of the same quality level, but don't see itlisted. Don Burns Don, Looking at Sinclairs book I pegged this as being a #20 but with bright NSRW ferrules instead of the GM NS HW feuurles on the #20. Except for theferrules this rod looks a lot like my #34 Peerless. It is a 9' 2F and castsa #5-6 Wulff TT like a champ! Thanks,-DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from channer1@rmi.net Sun May 21 21:04:27 2000 Subject: Re: Polishing Poly Finishes TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/21/0 4:23:12 PM, bob@downandacross.com writes: some rods done in MinWax Helmsmen poly spar varnish. >> Bob - I have used the stuff on tung oil spar only, but I think your resultswill be similar. The stuff produces a bright polish. You can sand awayanydefects with 2000 grit paper, and then polish the section back to glossandblend it in with the rest of the finish. It's good stuff.I usually wait at least two weeks. Tom(and Bob);I use Perfect-It II rubbing compound on Man-O-War and it works great, Ionly wait 3 days, that seems to be long enough, I haven't had anyproblems yet. I have found that if you dip after the guides are wrappedand you have to get a blemish off a wrap, then you need to follow therubbing compound with Finese-It II Machine polish. Rubbing out wrapsleaves them almost frosty looking and dull, the machine polish wil bringback the freshly-dipped shine .John from channer1@rmi.net Sun May 21 21:04:33 2000 Subject: 8'6" 4 wt. Guys;Well, the fly shop has got me into it this time! They took a n order foran 8'6" 4 wt. for me, without bothering to ask if I could make onefirst. Unfortunately, I don't have a taper for one of these, if anyonehas one they could reccommend, I would sure appreciate it. I wouldrather make a proven taper than experiment on a customer's rod. Thanks abunch in advance John from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Sun May 21 21:39:30 2000 E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 22 May 200010:34:54 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: RE: Titebond II glue Hi Marty,I have two nodeless rods on which I used Titebond II for thescarf joints although the completed splines are glued up with Resourcinol.They are holding up OK so far. The only change I plan on making to my rodconstruction is to make side to side scarfs instead of top to bottom as Ihave so far. Best regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Titebond II glue Hi all, Anybody out there using Titebond II wood glue to glue upsplines. I have been using URAC for 12 years and would like to try theTitebond II "slow set" on the next rod.I would like to know how it hasheld up.Looking for a non toxic glue alternative. Best, Marty from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun May 21 22:44:03 2000 Subject: RE: Water content of bamboo No one on this list (at least during the two years or so I've been aregular) has produced anything other than personal opinion on this issue.That includes those like me who think the moisture issue is overblown.Butwe DO have the experience of using very crisp rods made from soakedstrips,or finished with a non-waterproof finish. If moisture was as important asitis claimed, we would all have regular experiences with limp rods, becauseeven well varnished rods gradually adjust to ambient moisture. This wouldbeespecially common in places like Missouri, where I live. Well, that's myopinion, but there are others who disagree. My point has been that there isno cause for self-righteousness (as in "I'd never try such a thing becauseI'm too good a craftsman") in the absence of systematic data, which noneofus have. -----Original Message----- Subject: Water content of bamboo I would really like to know whether there is any substance to therecurrentworries about moisture content of bamboo at various stages of processing.I have just started soaking cane for the rough preliminary planing stage,and am amazed at the time and effort it saves. My wife's father, who alsomakes his own rods, is appalled - he won't even leave his pieces out in theshed after planing, but lovingly carries them inside where it's warm sotheydon't acquire any moisture! I mean, this stuff is designed to move water,and surely we can never desiccate it to any accurate level, so how fussy istoo fussy?Peter from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun May 21 22:44:06 2000 Subject: RE: Titebond II glue Here's what I know after limited experience. I've been using Titebond IIExtend (the slow stuff) on the 15 or so rods I've made so far. My onlyproblems involved scarf joints (I do nodeless rods) where the seambetweenthe pieces was visible. Sometimes you can see the joint because of slightdifference in color from one piece to another, but I'm talking about avisible dark line along the joint. I've had no other trouble, and thatincludes systematically breaking up two early rods to test the joints. Thebamboo broke before the glue joints (both in the scarf joints and thelongitudinal joints between splines), except for the condition mentionedabove. I've fished a couple of these rods pretty hard. I can't tell you howthey'll compare in 20 or 30 years to resorcinol, but titelbond is notexactly an untested new glue so I feel OK. I also know that some veryexperienced professional makers use it. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 2:41 PM Subject: Re: Titebond II glue In a message dated 5/19/00 5:49:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.net writes: Hi all, Anybody out there using Titebond II wood glue toglue upsplines. I have been using URAC for 12 years and wouldlike to try theTitebond II "slow set" on the next rod.I would like toknow how it hasheld up.Looking for a non toxic glue alternative. Best,Marty Marty, I've used normal Titebond II for scarf repair joints and ithas held up quite well - as long as I don't squeeze all the glue out of thejoint when overwrapping with the string. Drying time is very fast and I don't know if I could glueall six strips of a fullllength section and wrap before setup. Can't help youwith the slow set stuff - haven't used it. Don Burns from briansr@point-net.com Sun May 21 22:53:14 2000 Subject: penta question Hi Bill ,Richard and any penta buildersIf I have a penta rod that mics out @ .17 at the ferrule station would yousuggest using a size 11 ferrule or round off corners and THEN mic theblank.Checked the archives and came up zero .TIA Brian from timklein@uswest.net Mon May 22 00:05:09 2000 Subject: Re: Titebond II glue A couple of quick questions: Wetting the surface? Do you mean you're wetting your strips immediatelybefore gluing and binding? Second - What is the heat tolerance of ProBond and Gorilla Glue type P.U.?Have you heat straightened glued blanks? Last - What is the heat tolerance of Titebond II? I know that the originalTitebond and other wood glues were very heat sensitive. Do regularTitebondII and the slow set formulation hold up O.K. to heat?---Tim "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could bejust as proud for half the money"- Arthur Godfrey ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Titebond II glue Yes the ProBond does foam, due to water being its catalyst. You alwayswetthe surfaces before applying the glue. I find that most of the foamingoccurs within the first 20 min. or so, and wiping it away does no harm tothe joints. The reel seat I installed had a "breather hole", and all thefoaming exited there. I just wiped it away, and it stopped after about 15min's.. When gluing up separations, I double wrapped, and wiped away thefoaminguntil it stopped. I then let them set over night. The next day, I removedthe wrapping cord, and after 24 hours, any excess scraped away easily. Abroken butt section of a Heddon casting rod is virtually invisible, afterscraping and a light sanding. GMA from rp43640@online-club.de Mon May 22 05:07:21 2000 Mon, 22 May 2000 12:06:38 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Dickerson 8015 Guide & Guide Special I have the measurements of an #11 and unfortunately do not recall where Igotit from. But the length was given as 9'4.Would be nice to compare your measurements against it. Christian nobler wrote: I'd go with the PHY Texas General, or his Parabolic #11. I have a #11, andcan supply the measurements. It's a 9.5', while the T.G. was 8.5'. The T.G.is in the archives as a 9.5', but the two I had were both 8.5'. GMA GMA----- Original Message -----From: "petermckean" Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 5:49 PMSubject: Dickerson 8015 Guide & Guide Special I am building a rod for my 21 year old son, who may not use it very much,but could well try it against Northern Australian saltwater species if heuses it at all.It would appear when catering to that age group that somegenital mirroring is necessary if they are to accept a rod; so somethingpowerful, heavy and stiff would seem to be a given.Does anyone have any experience of the 2 Dickerson rods mentioned here.Ihad pretty well decided on the guide special, but looking at the tapersandthe stress curves makes me wonder whether the Guide may not be thebetterrod, and not sacrifice any of the brute force.Peter from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon May 22 05:47:12 2000 Mon, 22 May 2000 07:46:40 -0300 Subject: Re: 8'6" 4 wt. John,I have searched through my tapers and I don't have much in the orderof a 8'6" 4wt. I did find a Dickerson 8615 8'6" for 3wt and a LeonardTournament 8'0" 3pc for 3wt I am sure they would both handle a 4wtthough.The only other one that comes close is the Payne 200 8'0" for a 4 wt. Youcould stretch it using hexrod but if you were going to do that there areseveral other rods that would qualify. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.Most tapers I have for that length are at least 5 wt. Shawn channer wrote: Guys;Well, the fly shop has got me into it this time! They took a n order foran 8'6" 4 wt. for me, without bothering to ask if I could make onefirst. Unfortunately, I don't have a taper for one of these, if anyonehas one they could reccommend, I would sure appreciate it. I wouldrather make a proven taper than experiment on a customer's rod. Thanksabunch in advanceJohn from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue May 23 17:38:39 2000 e4NMcc110922 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 23 May 2000 17:25:24 -0500 Subject: Re: dressing ferrules I've now made a couple of ferrules, and I got them to fit pretty well,before installing them on the rod. I use a lap to get the male to the finalfit. I have a photo of how the lap looks if any would like to see it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: dressing ferrules DarrinI just mounted a set the other day and it seemed like I had the sametrouble. You just have to be patient. When they do fit they do it sosneaky that they scare you and it is too easy to overdo it by gettingimpatient. I would avoid the 800 grit though. It is a little toomuch. I do some of my ferrule dressing by using a cloth wheel andjeweler's rouge. This is a dicey technique. The wheel can grab the rodshaft out of your hand and break it before you get up in the morning.Secondly you have to be careful and not build any grooves and hills onthe ferrule. Still it does a nice job. Be patient!!!Ralph from caneman@clnk.com Tue May 23 18:44:06 2000 e4NNi6112706 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 23 May 2000 18:39:50 -0500 Subject: Who Made It??? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BFC4E6.932EC020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BFC4E6.932EC020 OK List,Who is the quad rod expert on the list? I just aquired a quad that =is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makers name, but does =have "Featherweight" inked on the butt section. Look at these pictures =of it and see if maybe one of our list quad rodders made it or if =someone knows who did. I know absolutely nothing about the quads so any=help is appreciated. Pics are at =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htm Actually, kinda hope it's Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BFC4E6.932EC020 OK List, aquired a quad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, = name, but does have "Featherweight" inked on the butt = Look at these pictures of it and see if maybe one of our list quad = Actually, kinda hope it's by one of our list members... Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BFC4E6.932EC020-- from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Tue May 23 19:10:57 2000 e4O0Av113316 Subject: 8' 6" for a 4 John, Here is the taper I promised. This is from Wayne cattanach. Works great.Tip Butt0 .075 45 .2025 .083 50 .21110 .098 55.21815 .113 60 .22920 .127 65 .23925 .141 70 .24530 .156 75 .25635 .169 80 .26840 .187 85 .27945 .202 90 .28850 .211 92-102 .288 HOPE YOU LIKE IT. Tight Lines, Chuck from ernie2@pacbell.net Tue May 23 19:27:34 2000 e4O0RX113857 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: CP ferrules How do you get the ferrules to fit snug again after you remove thechrome?Ernie ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: CP ferrules I strip chrome most every day with muratic acid mixed 50/50 withwater. Itwill not affect brass at all, but really "gets after" chrome. I'd hold theferrule vertically in the solution, until it is cleaned down to brass. Dothis outside, and it fumes allot.GMA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue May 23 19:48:02 2000 e4O0lu114247 Tue, 23 May 2000 21:47:50 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Who Made It??? boundary="------------469F3A4DC28AB6B51E229D9A" --------------469F3A4DC28AB6B51E229D9A Bob,I'm just speculating here but you might have a rod built by thelate John Irgens of Wisconsin. I'm no expert on the rod but it looks alot like the Irgens that I was looking at on E bay some time ago. I hadthe pictures saved somewhere but haven't been able to locate them. Thereare a few guys on here with Irgens rods so maybe they can correct me/back me on this one?Hope this is of some help, Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: OK List, Who is the quad rod expert on the list? I just aquired aquad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makersname, but does have "Featherweight" inked on the butt section. Lookat these pictures of it and see if maybe one of our list quad roddersmade it or if someone knows who did. I know absolutely nothing aboutthe quads so any help is appreciated. Pics are athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htm Actually, kinda hope it's --------------469F3A4DC28AB6B51E229D9A Bob, herebut you might have a rod built by the late John Irgens of Wisconsin. I'mno expert on the rod but it looks a lot like the Irgens that I was lookingat on E bay some time ago. I had the pictures saved somewhere but haven'tbeen able to locate them. There are a few guys on here with Irgens rodsso maybe they can correct me/ back me on this one? Hope this is of some help, ShawnBob Nunley wrote: flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makers name, but does have of it and see if maybe one of our list quad rodders made it or if someone http://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htm --------------469F3A4DC28AB6B51E229D9A-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue May 23 19:56:14 2000 e4O0uE114497 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Reading, Pennsylvania Hi all,I will be flying from Nova Scotia, Canada to Reading, Pa.first week of June on temporary duty. I might just have a bit of sparetime and would like to fish a bit and visit Russ Gooding at GoldenWitch, George Mauer and any other people/places I can squeeze in. Idon't know the area, can someone tell me what the closest hot spotswould be and how close I would be to these people? Any othersuggestions.Thanks,Shawn Pineo from bob@downandacross.com Tue May 23 20:09:04 2000 e4O193114864 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Bob's Quad Bob N.,How does that thing cast? The style looks familiar. I think Shawn may be right with his guess. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue May 23 20:18:44 2000 e4O1Ih115198 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Who Made It??? 9945072A752CDA77E022B4B7" --------------9945072A752CDA77E022B4B7 Hi Bob,Don't think it's John's. His light rods are very light like a leonardand the red wraps are more blood red. The one I have also has fittings from Bellinger. My quad has the wood rounded at the ferrule and a muchmore modern design at the handle. This looks like a older rod. I havea few Edwards quads and they are not similar also. Good luck....Rich Shawn Pineo wrote: Bob,I'm just speculating here but you might have a rod built bythe late John Irgens of Wisconsin. I'm no expert on the rod but itlooks a lot like the Irgens that I was looking at on E bay some timeago. I had the pictures saved somewhere but haven't been able tolocate them. There are a few guys on here with Irgens rods so maybethey can correct me/ back me on this one?Hope this is of some help, Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: OK List, Who is the quad rod expert on the list? I just aquireda quad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makersname, but does have "Featherweight" inked on the butt section. Lookat these pictures of it and see if maybe one of our list quadrodders made it or if someone knows who did. I know absolutelynothing about the quads so any help is appreciated. Pics are athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htm Actually, kinda hopeit's by one of our list members... Thanks in advance,Bob --------------9945072A752CDA77E022B4B7 Hi Bob, like Shawn Pineo wrote: herebut you might have a rod built by the late John Irgens of Wisconsin. I'mno expert on the rod but it looks a lot like the Irgens that I was lookingat on E bay some time ago. I had the pictures saved somewhere but haven'tbeen able to locate them. There are a few guys on here with Irgens rodsso maybe they can correct me/ back me on this one? Hope this is of some help, Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makers name, but does have of it and see if maybe one of our list quad rodders made it or if someone help http://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htmActually, kinda hope it's by one of our list members... Thanks inadvance,Bob --------------9945072A752CDA77E022B4B7-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue May 23 20:38:59 2000 e4O1cw115695 VAA06351; "Rodmakers" , Subject: Re: CP ferrules Good point Ernie, guess I'll limit removal to the non-fitting portion sincethat's the area that will benefit from the cosmetic redo and it won'tinterfere with the fit. Marty mentioned this as well.Thanks to all.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: CP ferrules How do you get the ferrules to fit snug again after you remove thechrome?Ernie ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Subject: Re: CP ferrules I strip chrome most every day with muratic acid mixed 50/50 withwater.Itwill not affect brass at all, but really "gets after" chrome. I'd holdtheferrule vertically in the solution, until it is cleaned down to brass. Dothis outside, and it fumes allot.GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue May 23 20:46:16 2000 e4O1kG115917 "Kling, Barry W." Subject: RE: Water content of bamboo Tony -- Maybe the US Forest Svc tests showed that the woods were the samehardnessat the **same moisture content**. If that's the case, it's still possiblethat the heat treatment reduces the wood's tendency to absorb moisture(andsoften) compared to non-treated wood. Then of course we're using agrass....Do you have any idea where to find the USFS study? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Water content of bamboo That's a good question. About two years back I suggested heating anddryingbeyond normaly possible at normal atmospheric temps like oven heattreatingcaused some kind of chemical change to take place that was basicaly nonreversable meaning even if the bamboo bacame wet again, once it driedoutit regained it's hardened "tempered" properties I used the example ofprehistoric people charing wooden spear points.I felt quite happy with this line of thought until John Zimney camealongand wrote that the US Forrest Service I believe, ran tests and foundthatthe application of heat in no way hardens wood beyond whatever hardnessitwould achieve by just naturaly drying.Now, if this is so, then why do non heat treated rods tend to take aset?If moisture can re enter the bamboo which it must in time the moisturecontent has to reach about the same levels bamboo not ever heat treatedwould be yet rods go for years and years without ill effect. So what'sthestory? Tony At 10:43 PM 5/21/00 -0500, Kling, Barry W. wrote:No one on this list (at least during the two years or so I've been aregular) has produced anything other than personal opinion on thisissue.That includes those like me who think the moisture issue is overblown.Butwe DO have the experience of using very crisp rods made from soakedstrips,or finished with a non-waterproof finish. If moisture was as importantas itis claimed, we would all have regular experiences with limp rods,becauseeven well varnished rods gradually adjust to ambient moisture. Thiswould beespecially common in places like Missouri, where I live. Well, that'smyopinion, but there are others who disagree. My point has been thatthere isno cause for self-righteousness (as in "I'd never try such a thingbecauseI'm too good a craftsman") in the absence of systematic data, whichnone ofus have. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 5:09 AM Subject: Water content of bamboo I would really like to know whether there is any substance to therecurrentworries about moisture content of bamboo at various stages ofprocessing.I have just started soaking cane for the rough preliminary planingstage,and am amazed at the time and effort it saves. My wife's father, whoalsomakes his own rods, is appalled - he won't even leave his pieces out intheshed after planing, but lovingly carries them inside where it's warm sotheydon't acquire any moisture! I mean, this stuff is designed to movewater,and surely we can never desiccate it to any accurate level, so howfussy istoo fussy?Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue May 23 20:55:04 2000 e4O1t3116344 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 23 May 2000 20:41:45 -0500 "Ernie Harrison" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re: CP ferrules Yes, a plastic plug would seal off the inside of the female, and a goodplastic tape will protect the male mating surface. GMA----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: CP ferrules Good point Ernie, guess I'll limit removal to the non-fitting portionsincethat's the area that will benefit from the cosmetic redo and it won'tinterfere with the fit. Marty mentioned this as well.Thanks to all.Ed-----Original Message-----From: Ernie Harrison Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 7:27 PMSubject: Re: CP ferrules How do you get the ferrules to fit snug again after you remove thechrome?Ernie ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Subject: Re: CP ferrules I strip chrome most every day with muratic acid mixed 50/50 withwater.Itwill not affect brass at all, but really "gets after" chrome. I'd holdtheferrule vertically in the solution, until it is cleaned down to brass.Dothis outside, and it fumes allot.GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue May 23 22:21:07 2000 e4O3L6117540 Tue, 23 May 2000 20:21:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Another Sad Day in GrayRock Wayne,Though I don't know Frank, I do know those who think highly of him. Pleaseassure his family that they are in our prayers. Harry Wayne Cattanach wrote: As I type this to share with those that know him - Frank Love - akaTheLove Bug lays comatose in the ICU of St Mary's hospital in GrayRock - heisbeing kept alive by several machines allowing time for his family togatheraround him - Frank had several massive heart attacks early this pastweekend - and his wishes were that he would not be maintained. So in afewshort hours Frank's destiny will be placed solely in God's hands. Rodmakersgather in GrayRock - the opening night picnic was always held at Frank'splace - the Whispering Pines Campgrounds - just down the dusty trailcalledFilo Drive - located along the Manistee RiverI will keep everyone posted --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Tue May 23 23:13:45 2000 e4O4Di118266 Subject: Rod ID Have a friend who has a James Reed rod with three tips, all seem to be ofa different taper. All have ring guides. I know that a Reed had a patent for ferrules but do not a James Reed, maybe a W. H. Reed 1885. Any ideas?Chuck from stpete@netten.net Tue May 23 23:52:00 2000 e4O4q0118828 Organization: none Subject: Got another phone call This is not serious rodmaking stuff, but I thought it a bit humorous. The guys at the local fly shop know I make rods. Every once in a whilethey have a good customer interested in rodmaking. I had given the OKto the two knowledgeable employees to give my name and number out,WITHDISCRETION, to people who were seriously interested in rodmaking. Afterall, when I got the fever to build, I had tried to talk with the one guyin town (at the time) who I heard was making his own rods. The guy wasstone cold silent. So, I made my rods - alone - with just this list,Wayne's book and The Book to guide me (thank you all so much!) The most recent phone call I got was from a guy who had cut a length ofsmall diameter cane from a neighbor's yard, dried it out over thesummer, wrapped guides on it and gave it a reel seat. No bull. AND, hewouldn't shut up. He just kept on and on about why this should work,and how it seemed to him... ARGHH! I wished him luck and told him wewere definitely on different tracks regarding rodmaking. Needless tosay, I went and had a talk with the guys at the shop. I have a standingoffer to conduct a one night lecture/demo on basic rodbuilding at theshop. They have yet to take me up on it, but no more calls have comein. Thinking back on my call to the stone cold silent maker, I must havebeen the guy who called directly after the cane pole wrapper. Rick from stpete@netten.net Wed May 24 00:10:44 2000 e4O5Ah119287 0500 Organization: none Subject: Rod/Taper Descriptions: Favorites One of the most difficult phases of rodmaking for me is deciding whichtaper I will make next. I know that the list regularly gets requests as the Southern Rodmakers Gathering (SRG) for the ability to try otherstapers and even some real, authentic classics. But for the most part, Ikind of rely on the 'word of mouth' on this list. I recall the "Top Twenty Five" taper discussion last year and thought itvery helpful. I'd like to start a variation of that discussion. Instead of just listing our favorite rod(s), why not describe the actionand best qualities of your favorite, or just an interesting rod that youlike. Such a discussion could be enormously helpful to those in thethroes of taper selection dilemas. I'll start it off. BTW, let's put the rod action in the subject line. Rick from stpete@netten.net Wed May 24 00:22:59 2000 e4O5Mw119565 0500 Organization: none Subject: Favorites: Payne 101 This is a rod that has been recommended by myself and by Harry Boyd onmore than one occassion. The Payne 101 is a 7'6", 5 wt rod. DennisHigham was gracious enough to share the taper with the list and I havecast his original Payne 101 at the SRG99. The original and the rod Imade were extremely similar in action. The 101 is a relatively fast rod. It has a smooth action that worksquite effectively into the butt of the rod as the casts get longer. This rod would be an excellent transition rod from graphite to bamboo. The Payne 101 is my current rod of choice when fishing the MidSouthtailwaters. I can throw a nice open loop when nymphing with weightedflies. It will throw a tight loop when needed. It fishes dries welland midges adequately. And it will throw a weighted bugger withauthority on those days that I get desperate for a fish. I'm likely toneed and use all of the above on my home waters in a days fishing. The 101 handles casts well from 15' to 60'. As you need more distance,it just keeps working the rod deeper and deeper into the butt and seemsto have an endless reserve of power. Rick C. from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed May 24 02:34:28 2000 e4O7YQ121235 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Oils`n hardner was A Question in Theory No secrets.... I got a test from a friend, working at a wood shop, the oil is made for hardwoodfloor. Its anatural product. I dont know what kind of hardner, but the oils is Chinesewood-,linseed-,sitrus oils. I called up the distrubutur, and he`s going to send me somemore testsand info. I`ll come back with more info and results of my test. regardsdanny Coffey, Patrick W wrote: what kind oils with what kind of hardeners if you don't mind telling. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed May 24 03:12:31 2000 e4O8CU121666 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk line varnish (Was: Reed Curry) I have no possibility to get tung oil nor Formby`s here in Norway, atleast have not had any luckso far.Will it be possible to use linseed oil instead of tung oil, and if,should it be boiled or raw? TIAdanny Before I tried Formby's (which works great) I tried mixing my ownsilk line varnish. After many different formulations, I had goodresults with 1/3 deodorized tupintine, 1/3 tung oil, and 1/3polyurethane varnish.Darryl from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed May 24 03:26:11 2000 e4O8QA121867 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk line varnish (Was: Reed Curry) BTW: What is "deodorized turpentine", is it natural or syntheticturpentine? TIAdanny DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Before I tried Formby's (which works great) I tried mixing my ownsilk line varnish. After many different formulations, I had goodresults with 1/3 deodorized tupintine, 1/3 tung oil, and 1/3polyurethane varnish.Darryl from horsesho@ptd.net Wed May 24 05:14:52 2000 e4OAEp123109 0000 (204.186.33.26) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Who Made It??? Bob Nunley wrote: OK List,Who is the quad rod expert on the list? I just aquired a quadthat is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makers name, butdoes have "Featherweight" inked on the butt section. Look at thesepictures of it and see if maybe one of our list quad rodders made itor if someone knows who did. I know absolutely nothing about thequads so any help is appreciated. Pics are athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htm Actually, kinda hope it's Thanks in advance,Bob Hi Bob, I feel that rod is an Edwards Quadrate. I feel it was a 9'erthat was shortened , a new reel seat installed (featherweght was a seatmanufacturer) and some what appears to be miss matched ferrules. Marty from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 24 06:08:26 2000 e4OB8P124121 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 24 May 2000 06:04:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Got another phone call Richard,most of what I get are sales calls... Like "Hey, I've got some canegrowing in my back yard, and I'll sell it to you cheap.." or "I've got aclassic rod I'm selling for $750 and thought you might be interested. It'sa beautiful rod, a Mayflower and even has a wooden box..." and even once,"If I bring you the bamboo I got down in the river bottoms could you makemea rod out of it for a hundred or so..." The cane pole wrapper would be arefreshing break! *S* Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Got another phone call This is not serious rodmaking stuff, but I thought it a bit humorous. The guys at the local fly shop know I make rods. Every once in a whilethey have a good customer interested in rodmaking. I had given the OKto the two knowledgeable employees to give my name and number out,WITHDISCRETION, to people who were seriously interested in rodmaking. Afterall, when I got the fever to build, I had tried to talk with the one guyin town (at the time) who I heard was making his own rods. The guy wasstone cold silent. So, I made my rods - alone - with just this list,Wayne's book and The Book to guide me (thank you all so much!) The most recent phone call I got was from a guy who had cut a length ofsmall diameter cane from a neighbor's yard, dried it out over thesummer, wrapped guides on it and gave it a reel seat. No bull. AND, hewouldn't shut up. He just kept on and on about why this should work,and how it seemed to him... ARGHH! I wished him luck and told him wewere definitely on different tracks regarding rodmaking. Needless tosay, I went and had a talk with the guys at the shop. I have a standingoffer to conduct a one night lecture/demo on basic rodbuilding at theshop. They have yet to take me up on it, but no more calls have comein. Thinking back on my call to the stone cold silent maker, I must havebeen the guy who called directly after the cane pole wrapper. Rick from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed May 24 08:32:17 2000 e4ODWG126886 ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Oils`n hardner was A Question in Theory I`ll tell You all about it when I`ll get the info + and tried it out ona rod.At the moment all I know is what I've written, got the oil in a unmarkedbottle.... I do not know if its available abroad. regardsdanny Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: Thanks, Danny. Would be interested to hear about it. Best regards, Richard Tyree from jczimny@dol.net Wed May 24 08:57:24 2000 e4ODvN127803 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk line varnish (Was: Reed Curry) Use boiled linseed oil and add a little cobalt drier. You can get cobaltdrier at an art supply store.John Z Danny Twang wrote: I have no possibility to get tung oil nor Formby`s here in Norway, atleast have not had any luckso far.Will it be possible to use linseed oil instead of tung oil, and if,should it be boiled or raw? TIAdanny Before I tried Formby's (which works great) I tried mixing my ownsilk line varnish. After many different formulations, I had goodresults with 1/3 deodorized tupintine, 1/3 tung oil, and 1/3polyurethane varnish.Darryl from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed May 24 09:03:33 2000 e4OE3W128119 Subject: Shellac and varnish While watching my sections get pulled out of the varnish I started to readthe label on the Varmor R10 can. In the instructions it said: Never apply over shellac, sanding sealer, laquer sealer or over dirt... A few weeks back there was a discussion of shellac and french polish on abamboo rod. It doesn't sound like a base coat of shellac is a good idea. Paul from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed May 24 09:11:54 2000 e4OEBs128542 Subject: dip tip boundary="----=_NextPart_000_054A_01BFC569.0BF29B30" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_054A_01BFC569.0BF29B30 I built a dipping setup over the weekend. I used the 4rpm drying motor =that Cabellas sells to pull the sections out. I found that an acid brush =fits over the shaft on the motor and provides plenty of capacity of the =line (I used an old flyline). This setup extracted the section at =3-3/4"/min. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_054A_01BFC569.0BF29B30 I built a dipping setup over the = the 4rpm drying motor that Cabellas sells to pull the sections out. I = an acid brush fits over the shaft on the motor and provides plenty of = of the line (I used an old flyline). This setup extracted the section at = 3-3/4"/min. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_054A_01BFC569.0BF29B30-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 24 09:35:15 2000 e4OEZE129616 Subject: Using Stress Curves Stress curves are well worth the effort to learn forrodmaking, but first let me warn you that if you areexpecting the stress curve to look like the stresscurve in the Garrison - Charmichael book, it won't.Garrison drew an idealized stress curve, then triedto derive taper diameters from that. Basically he hadto use successive approximations starting from a straight taper and going through his calculations 2 to3 times to get his taper. He never (at least in thebook) went the other way, taking the resulting taperand calculated a stress curve straight from it. Once you begin to understand stress curves, many thingsbecome possible. You can profile an existing rod. You can measure a rod,then from the shape of the stress curve you can make afairly good guess as to what the action will be. To dothis you must have quite a few rods, actually cast themand look at their stress curves. You can design a new rod. With your knowledge of stresscurves and the resulting actions of the rods learned from the above step, you can design any length rod inany line weight and in as many pieces as you want, andget any action, slow, fast, parabolic or any other thatyou might have learned from casting a rod and lookingat it's stress curve. You can lengthen or shorten a rod and preserve the casting action. You can make the same rod for different line weights. You can make the same rod in different number of pieces.If you have a favorite rod that you want to take back-packing, just design it with the same stress curve, butin 4, 5, or ? pieces. Stress curves are a very useful tool, and can take yourrodmaking from just copying other people's tapers todesigning your own. Darryl from ernie2@pacbell.net Wed May 24 10:28:21 2000 e4OFSK109490 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Got another phone call Richard,I used to fish in the ocean with a 10 foot cane pole with taped on rodguides and reel. Made a heck of a good casting pole. Perhaps you shouldsee how well his pole casts a fly line. :-)Ernie ----- Original Message ----- The most recent phone call I got was from a guy who had cut a length ofsmall diameter cane from a neighbor's yard, dried it out over thesummer, wrapped guides on it and gave it a reel seat. No bull. AND, hewouldn't shut up. He just kept on and on about why this should work,and how it seemed to him... ARGHH! I wished him luck and told him wewere definitely on different tracks regarding rodmaking. Needless tosay, I went and had a talk with the guys at the shop. I have a standingoffer to conduct a one night lecture/demo on basic rodbuilding at theshop. They have yet to take me up on it, but no more calls have comein. Rick from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Wed May 24 10:44:33 2000 e4OFiX110717 Subject: Re: Using Stress Curves Darryl, I have been interested in this topic, but do not know where to begin.Could you point me in a direction for resources so I can begin studyingup on stress curves? Regards, Kevin from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed May 24 11:13:40 2000 e4OGDb113508 Thu, 25 May 2000 00:13:32 +0800 Thu, 25 May 2000 00:13:27 +0800 Subject: Re: steam bending Rodmakers David, just reading this makes sence. Kiln dried wood was considered worse thanuseless and the non dried wood we used was probably not right off the sawas itwere but still not really what you'd call dried either but there's nosaying itwouldn't have worked better if it was a little more dry though I think thespecies of timber being used may have more than a little to do with that.I've also been thinking about how quickly steamed wood dried and it didseem tobe bone dry faster after being steamed than off cuts from the same piecethatweren't steamed. I guess all the heat held in the wood from steamingdrivesouta lot more moisture than goes in, in the form of steam. Still, I'd be a little careful of this guy if he's a boat builder. There was apopular saying used by cabinet makers working as boat builders at theyard Idid my time that went "cabinet makers work to the nearest 32nd whileboatbuilder's are happy to within the nearest boat" :-) Tony At 12:43 PM 5/22/00 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote: Tony, Yes, the man who wrote the article was a boatbuilder/restorer. Hearguesthat green wood is little better than kiln-dried wood when it comes tobending. It the kiln-dried situation, the entire piece of wood (fibers andcells) are dry and it is difficult to get the heat into the wood (you areagain correct, we're talking some large pieces, relative to bamboo).Recall,that the argument goes "the steam/moisture is used simply to transmittheheat because it is more efficient in carrying heat than air/dry heat. So,kiln-dried wood is both different (the fibers "solidify"/"temper") and apoorer conductor of heat (no moisture to carry it, so less efficient). He likewise argues that green wood is not the best (counterintuitiveindeed) wood for bending because, while you might get the heat ineasier/moreefficiently because of all the water, the cellular spaces are filled withwater (which can't compress with the added bending stresses) and cancauseeruption of the cell wall/fibers when the wood is bent, therebyweakeningthewood. I should remember this by now, but I seem to recall him suggesting awater content of ~20-24% as ideal for bending. dws. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from briansr@point-net.com Wed May 24 11:33:07 2000 e4OGX6115973 0400 Subject: terrific news from Norway Organization: Hi folksThought I'd pass this on.Two guys on the Bjora caught fish of 19.5 and15.7kilos today and yesterday one of them caught a fish of 14 + kilos !!!Here in Quebec water is incredibly high stillCheers brian from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 24 11:34:45 2000 e4OGYi116113 Subject: Re: Using Stress Curves You should get Wayne's program - Hexrod. Where to getit was just discussed on this list, and get about 6 to10 bamboo rods. Or, as my case, since I had no accessto any bamboo rods, make them. Using the program, plotthe stress curves, and cast the rods. Get or make different types of rods. Fast, slow, parabolic. It might be better to look at the stress curves first andpick out rods that have markedly different stresscurves. Become intimately familiar with the way theycast and their stress curves. This is the only way I know of to learn about stress curves and how to applythem to rods. If you want to learn how to calculate stress curves,the Garrison - Charmichael book is where it all started. Darryl from BambooRods@aol.com Wed May 24 11:58:02 2000 e4OGw1117233 Subject: Using heat on Blonde Rods to Straighten Am ready to straighten my first (and more than likely my only) blonde rod. I am very happy with things so far but... Any advise on avoidingdiscoloration to the blank when using a heat gun to straighten? As pretty as it is Iwould hate to have brown sections or even sections that are darker.Doug hall from horsesho@ptd.net Wed May 24 12:22:44 2000 e4OHMh118380 0000 (204.186.33.228) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Using heat on Blonde Rods to Straighten BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Am ready to straighten my first (and more than likely my only) blonderod. Iam very happy with things so far but... Any advise on avoidingdiscolorationto the blank when using a heat gun to straighten? As pretty as it is Iwouldhate to have brown sections or even sections that are darker.Doug hallHi Doug, Never let it get hot enough to discolor! Always straighten barehanded with your fingers close to the spot that has to be made straightand roll the rod over the heat gun(like an old German cabinet maker oncetold me,"your fingers will heal but not the cabinet (rod)" The fibers inthe rod will soften way before the cane will darken. Good Luck, Marty from ernie2@pacbell.net Wed May 24 12:35:51 2000 e4OHZp118974 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Using Stress Curves Darryl,That was a very interesting discourse on stress curves. I hope you willtell us how you use them to change the line weight of an existing taper.Ernie ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Using Stress Curves Stress curves are well worth the effort to learn forrodmaking, but first let me warn you that if you areexpecting the stress curve to look like the stresscurve in the Garrison - Charmichael book, it won't.Garrison drew an idealized stress curve, then triedto derive taper diameters from that. Basically he hadto use successive approximations starting from astraight taper and going through his calculations 2 to3 times to get his taper. He never (at least in thebook) went the other way, taking the resulting taperand calculated a stress curve straight from it. Once you begin to understand stress curves, many thingsbecome possible. You can profile an existing rod. You can measure a rod,then from the shape of the stress curve you can make afairly good guess as to what the action will be. To dothis you must have quite a few rods, actually cast themand look at their stress curves. You can design a new rod. With your knowledge of stresscurves and the resulting actions of the rods learned from the above step, you can design any length rod inany line weight and in as many pieces as you want, andget any action, slow, fast, parabolic or any other thatyou might have learned from casting a rod and lookingat it's stress curve. You can lengthen or shorten a rod and preserve thecasting action. You can make the same rod for different line weights. You can make the same rod in different number of pieces.If you have a favorite rod that you want to take back-packing, just design it with the same stress curve, butin 4, 5, or ? pieces. Stress curves are a very useful tool, and can take yourrodmaking from just copying other people's tapers todesigning your own. Darryl from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed May 24 12:38:46 2000 e4OHch119133 Thu, 25 May 2000 01:38:36 +0800 Subject: Re: Using heat on Blonde Rods to Straighten Doug,just take it easy and it wont darken the bamboo. Tony At 12:56 PM 5/24/00 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Am ready to straighten my first (and more than likely my only) blonderod.I am very happy with things so far but... Any advise on avoidingdiscoloration to the blank when using a heat gun to straighten? As pretty as it is Iwould hate to have brown sections or even sections that are darker.Doug hall /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 24 13:42:42 2000 e4OIgf121169 Subject: Re: Using Stress Curves The short answer is simple. Change the line weight andkeep the stress values the same. The longer answer isthis could somewhat more of a problem because if thesoftware you are using doesn't allow you to enter stressnumbers, you have to tweak the diameters until you getthe same stress values.Darryl Subject: Using Stress Curves Stress curves are well worth the effort to learn forrodmaking, but first let me warn you that if you areexpecting the stress curve to look like the stresscurve in the Garrison - Charmichael book, it won't.Garrison drew an idealized stress curve, then triedto derive taper diameters from that. Basically he hadto use successive approximations starting from astraight taper and going through his calculations 2 to3 times to get his taper. He never (at least in thebook) went the other way, taking the resulting taper> and calculated astress curve straight from it. Once you begin to understand stress curves, many thingsbecome possible. You can profile an existing rod. You can measure a rod,then from the shape of the stress curve you can make afairly good guess as to what the action will be. To dothis you must have quite a few rods, actually cast themand look at their stress curves. You can design a new rod. With your knowledge of stresscurves and the resulting actions of the rods learned from the above step, you can design any length rod inany line weight and in as many pieces as you want, andget any action, slow, fast, parabolic or any other thatyou might have learned from casting a rod and lookingat it's stress curve. You can lengthen or shorten a rod and preserve thecasting action. You can make the same rod for different line weights. You can make the same rod in different number of pieces.If you have a favorite rod that you want to take back-packing, just design it with the same stress curve, butin 4, 5, or ? pieces. Stress curves are a very useful tool, and can take yourrodmaking from just copying other people's tapers todesigning your own. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed May 24 13:47:19 2000 e4OIlH121428 12:03:25 PDT Subject: Re: Using Stress Curves I've used Frank Stetzers web interface to the Hexrod program which isfound in the software tab at the Rodmakers website. It will allow you to do allof the things mentioned, change line wts. while retaining same stress values, lengthen, shorten, etc. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- The short answer is simple. Change the line weight andkeep the stress values the same. The longer answer isthis could somewhat more of a problem because if thesoftware you are using doesn't allow you to enter stressnumbers, you have to tweak the diameters until you getthe same stress values.Darryl Subject: Using Stress Curves Stress curves are well worth the effort to learn forrodmaking, but first let me warn you that if you areexpecting the stress curve to look like the stresscurve in the Garrison - Charmichael book, it won't.Garrison drew an idealized stress curve, then triedto derive taper diameters from that. Basically he hadto use successive approximations starting from astraight taper and going through his calculations 2 to3 times to get his taper. He never (at least in thebook) went the other way, taking the resulting taperand calculated a stress curve straight from it. Once you begin to understand stress curves, many thingsbecome possible. You can profile an existing rod. You can measure a rod,then from the shape of the stress curve you can make afairly good guess as to what the action will be. To dothis you must have quite a few rods, actually cast themand look at their stress curves. You can design a new rod. With your knowledge of stresscurves and the resulting actions of the rods learned from the above step, you can design any length rod inany line weight and in as many pieces as you want, andget any action, slow, fast, parabolic or any other thatyou might have learned from casting a rod and lookingat it's stress curve. You can lengthen or shorten a rod and preserve thecasting action. You can make the same rod for different line weights. You can make the same rod in different number of pieces.If you have a favorite rod that you want to take back-packing, just design it with the same stress curve, butin 4, 5, or ? pieces. Stress curves are a very useful tool, and can take yourrodmaking from just copying other people's tapers todesigning your own. Darryl from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 24 17:37:43 2000 e4OMbg110545 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 24 May 2000 17:24:40 -0500 Subject: Re: terrific news from Norway I assume these were salmon ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: terrific news from Norway Hi folksThought I'd pass this on.Two guys on the Bjora caught fish of 19.5 and15.7kilos today and yesterday one of them caught a fish of 14 + kilos !!!Here in Quebec water is incredibly high stillCheers brian from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 24 18:36:00 2000 e4ONZx111630 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A86E113A007E; Wed, 24 May 2000 19:40:30 -0400 Subject: Contest winner and answer Quite a number of people had the correct answer to the question:"Who originated the Double Haul?"The answer was Marvin K. Hedge. from Ernest Schwiebert's 1978 TROUT:.."...working consistently beyond sixty feet demands more than thesingle haul, which existed in the rule book of fly casting for more thana century before the remarkable double haul was unveiled ininternational competition in 1938. .........It had been germinating inthe work of several Pacific Coast tournament casters for a dozen years,along with a series ofexperiments with radical line tapers. It was probably Marvin Hedge whofirst worked out a rudimentary double haul in response to his ownweight-forward line theories, since it was Hedge who first unveiled itin competition. " ---[Note: I've also seen it documented as firstdemonstrated by Hedge in the 1934 National Championship.] Due to the omission of the noun "cast", I also accepted as valid entriesthose who described the haulage of things other than line. (Cleverlads.)The winner, drawn at random from all correct answers, was RickCrenshaw. A new contest for a silk line starts immediately. The line will be anew-in-box Newton Streamline Silk line "E" L5I (must have been made inthe sixties) amber in color. It will need some TLC, but will make a niceline.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from briansr@point-net.com Wed May 24 21:01:11 2000 e4P21A113639 forged)) Wed, 24 May 2000 22:01:08 -0400 Subject: Re: terrific news from Norway Organization: YEP http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/d142187.htmand enjoy !!!!Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: terrific news from Norway I assume these were salmon ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: terrific news from Norway Hi folksThought I'd pass this on.Two guys on the Bjora caught fish of 19.5 and15.7kilos today and yesterday one of them caught a fish of 14 + kilos !!!Here in Quebec water is incredibly high stillCheers brian from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed May 24 21:10:35 2000 e4P2AZ113915 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Using Stress Curves Darryl -- Great post. I've experienced many of the benefits you described usingsimplegraphs, with the flat-to-flat measurement on the y axis and distance fromthe tip on the x. I can relate the shape of the line to rod characteristicsetc. Is there some way in which a stress curve is more useful than thesesimple graphs? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Using Stress Curves Stress curves are well worth the effort to learn forrodmaking, but first let me warn you that if you areexpecting the stress curve to look like the stresscurve in the Garrison - Charmichael book, it won't.Garrison drew an idealized stress curve, then triedto derive taper diameters from that. Basically he hadto use successive approximations starting from a straight taper and going through his calculations 2 to3 times to get his taper. He never (at least in thebook) went the other way, taking the resulting taperand calculated a stress curve straight from it. Once you begin to understand stress curves, many thingsbecome possible. You can profile an existing rod. You can measure a rod,then from the shape of the stress curve you can make afairly good guess as to what the action will be. To dothis you must have quite a few rods, actually cast themand look at their stress curves. You can design a new rod. With your knowledge of stresscurves and the resulting actions of the rods learned from the above step, you can design any length rod inany line weight and in as many pieces as you want, andget any action, slow, fast, parabolic or any other thatyou might have learned from casting a rod and lookingat it's stress curve. You can lengthen or shorten a rod and preserve the casting action. You can make the same rod for different line weights. You can make the same rod in different number of pieces.If you have a favorite rod that you want to take back-packing, just design it with the same stress curve, butin 4, 5, or ? pieces. Stress curves are a very useful tool, and can take yourrodmaking from just copying other people's tapers todesigning your own. Darryl from cattanac@wmis.net Wed May 24 22:01:55 2000 e4P31s114680 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id Subject: Re: Using Stress Curves Yes - A stress curve is very useful. Perhaps the most important amongthem is that it (or rather) the stress numbers allows duplication of actionin different line weight rods - example - reduce a 6 weight rod taper to a4weight rod taper - by the application of a different tip impact number from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu May 25 00:13:38 2000 e4P5Db116611 Subject: Re: Using Stress Curves graph is useful. It all boils down to whatever works for you since you arethe one making your rod.Darryl Great post. I've experienced many of the benefits you described usingsimplegraphs, with the flat-to-flat measurement on the y axis and distancefromthe tip on the x. I can relate the shape of the line to rod characteristicsetc. Is there some way in which a stress curve is more useful than thesesimple graphs? from tcreech@neo.rr.com Thu May 25 00:32:08 2000 e4P5W6117065 Subject: Varnish drying time boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC5E8.DCF9B4A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC5E8.DCF9B4A0 I just completed my first refinishing of a bamboo rod (last varnish dip =was Monday).How long should I wait before stringing this baby up? Thanks! Tom Creech ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC5E8.DCF9B4A0 I just completed my first refinishing of a bamboo = varnish dip was Monday).How long should I wait before stringing this up? Thanks! Tom Creech ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC5E8.DCF9B4A0-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu May 25 01:01:19 2000 e4P61H117576 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Shellac and varnish I've used shellac before dipping in Polyurethane on a couple of rods. Thevarnish seems to stickwell to the rods. I been speaking to several professionals painter/restorerabout this issue,and they all say shellac is a good base for any varnish............ I've not "french polish", but simply applied thin shellac with a rag, notsureif it makes anydifferent to make the varnish melt together. Off course You shall never apply any finish on dirt or wax..... regardsdanny Paul Goodwin wrote: While watching my sections get pulled out of the varnish I started toreadthe label on the Varmor R10 can. In the instructions it said: Never apply over shellac, sanding sealer, laquer sealer or over dirt... A few weeks back there was a discussion of shellac and french polish onabamboo rod. It doesn't sound like a base coat of shellac is a good idea. Paul from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu May 25 01:23:39 2000 e4P6Nc117940 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: terrific news from Norway These salmon was taken on wobbler on a plastic rod UHHHH!!! BTW How come You know about this, are You norwegian or leser du norsk...? danny Brian Sturrock wrote: YEP http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/d142187.htmand enjoy !!!!Cheers Brian ----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: 24 mai, 2000 18:40Subject: Re: terrific news from Norway I assume these were salmon ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: terrific news from Norway Hi folksThought I'd pass this on.Two guys on the Bjora caught fish of 19.5and15.7kilos today and yesterday one of them caught a fish of 14 + kilos !!!Here in Quebec water is incredibly high stillCheers brian from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu May 25 02:24:01 2000 e4P7O0118770 Subject: Re: Silk line varnish (Was: Reed Curry) John, Do You mean only boiled linseed oil with drier, or 50/50 with PU varnish?Or1/3 oil, 1/3 PUand 1/3 terpentine? TIAdanny J. C. Zimny wrote: Use boiled linseed oil and add a little cobalt drier. You can get cobaltdrier at an art supply store.John Z from grau@buchlang.com Thu May 25 03:26:19 2000 e4P8QI119611 (MET DST) Subject: Flip Ring Guides/Hook keeper? source for these? Wha`t about using this "loose ring guides, are theyexisting in different sizes and know someone a source? Regards & thanks Stefan from grau@buchlang.com Thu May 25 03:49:52 2000 e4P8np120003 (MET DST) Subject: Loose-/Flip ring guides Part Two Sorry - i mean using todays folding hook keepers as replacement part for loose ring guides.. Stefan Grau schrieb: source for these? Wha`t about using this "loose ring guides, are theyexisting in different sizes and know someone a source? Regards & thanks Stefan --Lang Info AccessDatenbanken - CD Rom - InternetliteraturInternet: http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/Stefan GrauInformation ConsultantMènzgraben 2CH-3011 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: 031 310 84 84direct phone: ++41 ( 0 ) 31 310 84 78fax: 310 84 94ausgenommen:Montag vormittag,Dienstag nachmittagMittwoch ganzer Tag---------------------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n)gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu May 25 04:12:32 2000 e4P9CU120482 Subject: Oil/Varnish finish Anybody tried to use linseed oil, spar- or PU varnish as a finish onrod? Anyway, I'm going to mix up some, to a silk line restoring, going to tryit on a piece of cane..... regardsdanny from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 25 04:45:46 2000 e4P9jh120988 Thu, 25 May 2000 17:45:25 +0800 Subject: Re: Shellac and varnish "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Could be something specific to that varnish/poly because shellac isnormally considered a good wood grain filler to use prior to applying thevarnish. Tony At 08:02 AM 5/25/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:I've used shellac before dipping in Polyurethane on a couple of rods. Thevarnish seems to stickwell to the rods. I been speaking to several professionalspainter/restorerabout this issue,and they all say shellac is a good base for any varnish............ I've not "french polish", but simply applied thin shellac with a rag, notsureif it makes anydifferent to make the varnish melt together. Off course You shall never apply any finish on dirt or wax..... regardsdanny Paul Goodwin wrote: While watching my sections get pulled out of the varnish I started toreadthe label on the Varmor R10 can. In the instructions it said: Never apply over shellac, sanding sealer, laquer sealer or over dirt... A few weeks back there was a discussion of shellac and french polishon abamboo rod. It doesn't sound like a base coat of shellac is a good idea. Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu May 25 04:48:08 2000 e4P9m5121114 Thu, 25 May 2000 17:49:05 +0800 Subject: Re: terrific news from Norway Must be fed on steroid laced pellets!Just kidding. Tony At 10:00 PM 5/24/00 -0400, Brian Sturrock wrote:YEP http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/d142187.htmand enjoy !!!!Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: nobler Sent: 24 mai, 2000 18:40Subject: Re: terrific news from Norway I assume these were salmon ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 11:32 AMSubject: terrific news from Norway Hi folksThought I'd pass this on.Two guys on the Bjora caught fish of 19.5 and15.7kilos today and yesterday one of them caught a fish of 14 + kilos !!!Here in Quebec water is incredibly high stillCheers brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 25 05:15:53 2000 e4PAFr121588 Thu, 25 May 2000 07:15:47 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Flip Ring Guides/Hook keeper? Stefan,you might try russ over at Golden Witch, I get my NS ring andstrap keepers from him and he has an assortment of sizes if I remembercorrectly. He may even have the originals because he sometimes hasclassic components.Keep your eye open on e bay too, you may be able to buy an oldrod with them and strip it. If I see any I'll keep you in mind.ShawnStefan Grau wrote: source for these? Wha`t about using this "loose ring guides, are theyexisting in different sizes and know someone a source? Regards & thanks Stefan from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu May 25 06:57:30 2000 e4PBvS123010 Subject: Polyurethane Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFC693.91AEAFE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFC693.91AEAFE0 About the only problem I don't see, Tony, is "fisheyes", and now that =someone has told me about them I guess I will have them too!I dip in a poly tube, withdrawing at about 1.5' per minute, in my =garage, which is tantamount to being in the open, except that the half =closed door tends to channel the insects more directly to the 5' of =bamboo flypaper on which I am working.Until the great explosive expose, I used degrease the section with =ether* and dip immediately; temperature is between 18 and 24 degrees, =and I will no longer dip in the winter, as the couple of rods I tried to =do last winter I had to strip right back and do again. I do each repeat =at 24 hours without sanding between coats unless something vile has =occurred. It seems to me that the stuff is still soft enough at 24 hours =that it is very hard to do anything except strip down and start again. =Even if you are delicate with 1000 or 1500 paper, you still get a mess, =so I don't do it.I use total 3 coats on the tips and 3 or 4 on the butt. It looks pretty =slick to begin with, but I leave them a couple of months to dry, and =somehow they look better then, though why this should be I don't know.Any help? ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFC693.91AEAFE0 About the only problem I don't see, = "fisheyes", and now that someone has told me about them I guess I will = too!I dip in a poly tube, withdrawing at = minute, in my garage, which is tantamount to being in the open, except = bamboo flypaper on which I am working.Until the great explosive expose, I = the section with ether* and dip immediately; temperature is between 18 = each repeat at 24 hours without sanding between coats unless something = occurred. It seems to me that the stuff is still soft enough at 24 hours = is very hard to do anything except strip down and start again. Even if = it.I use total 3 coats on the tips and 3 = butt. It looks pretty slick to begin with, but I leave them a couple of = to dry, and somehow they look better then, though why this should be I = know.Any help? ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFC693.91AEAFE0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu May 25 07:11:23 2000 e4PCBL123280 Subject: Poly varnish Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0074_01BFC695.840E0000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01BFC695.840E0000 Oops, forgot the asterisk in my previous!Obviously I will not be using any more ether to degrease and clean =sections, so can anyone tell me what would be best, please.I am thinking either denatured alcohol or artists' vegetable turpentine.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01BFC695.840E0000 previous!Obviously I will not be using any more= please.I am thinking either denatured alcohol= vegetable turpentine.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01BFC695.840E0000-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 25 08:08:06 2000 e4PD85124459 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 25 May 2000 08:09:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnish drying time I stripped wraps I didn't like this week, on a rod done about 3-4 weeksago.The varnish was still soft a gooey around the guides ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varnish drying time I just completed my first refinishing of a bamboo rod (last varnish dipwasMonday).How long should I wait before stringing this baby up? Thanks! Tom Creech from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu May 25 08:18:33 2000 e4PDIW125095 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Thu, 25 May 2000 13:18:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Contest winner and answer(Double Haul-Marvin Hedge) developed by another fellow (Mooch Abrams?) who taught it to MarvinHedge.Both were local boys and Mooch was injured (auto accident?) causing damageto right shoulder and arm, cutting his competetive casting career short. Hekept on fishing however and the double haul helped him overcome theinjuryand keep him on the stream. He "coached" local casters including MikeKennedy who was a competitive caster in his own right. This was relatedtome in the mid 70s (75-76) by the late Mike Kennedy who was kind enoughtoshow me how they double hauled in the "old days". Ed Hartzell may haveheard some of the same stories...Ed are you out there? Kennedy, Abrams and Hedge were all part of the crew that hung out at theoldHoneyman Hardware store in Portland during the 30s-40s and used acastingplatform that existed at the time on the Willamette River at the foot ofYamhill Street. The current casting pond at Westmoreland Park inPortlandwas built during that era to host a national casting competition....... reed curry wrote: Quite a number of people had the correct answer to the question:"Who originated the Double Haul?"The answer was Marvin K. Hedge. from Ernest Schwiebert's 1978 TROUT:.."...working consistently beyond sixty feet demands more than thesingle haul, which existed in the rule book of fly casting for more thana century before the remarkable double haul was unveiled ininternational competition in 1938. .........It had been germinating inthe work of several Pacific Coast tournament casters for a dozen years,along with a series ofexperiments with radical line tapers. It was probably Marvin Hedge whofirst worked out a rudimentary double haul in response to his ownweight-forward line theories, since it was Hedge who first unveiled itin competition. " ---[Note: I've also seen it documented as firstdemonstrated by Hedge in the 1934 National Championship.] Due to the omission of the noun "cast", I also accepted as valid entriesthose who described the haulage of things other than line. (Cleverlads.)The winner, drawn at random from all correct answers, was RickCrenshaw. A new contest for a silk line starts immediately. The line will be anew-in-box Newton Streamline Silk line "E" L5I (must have been made inthe sixties) amber in color. It will need some TLC, but will make a niceline.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ --Mike LeitheiserLake Oswego, Oregon "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 25 08:20:47 2000 e4PDKk125233 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 25 May 2000 08:21:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Flip Ring Guides/Hook keeper? Hello Shawn, It seems your Canadian Customs is increasing their position as the "heavy"in most anything coming into your country from the U.S. ! I made ashipmentMay 5, via air mail, and its still not delivered. Insured for $250, andmarked as, "repaired and returned to owner", at a charge of $31.50, itseemsto have just gone away to never-never land ! In thinking about this problem, it seems having a friend close to a bordercrossing, to mail to on the U.S. side, may offer a solution. They could takeit across, and mail it in Canada ! The small extra postage would far offsetthe long wait and duty ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Flip Ring Guides/Hook keeper? Stefan,you might try russ over at Golden Witch, I get my NS ring andstrap keepers from him and he has an assortment of sizes if I remembercorrectly. He may even have the originals because he sometimes hasclassic components.Keep your eye open on e bay too, you may be able to buy an oldrod with them and strip it. If I see any I'll keep you in mind.ShawnStefan Grau wrote: source for these? Wha`t about using this "loose ring guides, are theyexisting in different sizes and know someone a source? Regards & thanks Stefan from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 25 08:27:25 2000 e4PDRO125564 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 25 May 2000 08:28:32 -0500 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Poly varnish Living in such cold country does have its disadvantages I guess ! Our 38degC. + summers do have some good sides, when it comes to faster drying !Anyway, most any alcohol is a very dry media, and will remove oils, etc.,well, with safety. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Poly varnish Oops, forgot the asterisk in my previous!Obviously I will not be using any more ether to degrease and cleansections,so can anyone tell me what would be best, please.I am thinking either denatured alcohol or artists' vegetable turpentine.Peter from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu May 25 08:57:09 2000 e4PDv8126842 Subject: Valspar Hello to all,I am thinking of trying Valspar on my next test rod, anyone using this please give me the pros &cons.T.I.AJoe from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 25 09:02:25 2000 e4PE2O127171 (5.0.1459.74) Subject: RE: Polyurethane The reason your rod is looking even better a month later is that thepoly is still curing. Cure time is significantly extended by yourpractice of recoating before the previous coat is completely cured.I've been using poly on wood for several years, and it almost alwaystakes at least a couple weeks before it reaches maximum hardness. Ifyou do multiple coats as you describe, it takes even longer. The timeto cure is also affected by temperature and humidity (thus all thediscussions and use of drying cabinets). Personally, I believe that along slow cure gives the best finish, as long as you can keep the bugsand dust out of it, and avoid the temptation to play with it in theinterim. -----Original Message-----From: petermckean [SMTP:petermckean@netspace.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 5:53 AM Subject: Polyurethane About the only problem I don't see, Tony, is "fisheyes", and now thatsomeone has told me about them I guess I will have them too!I dip in a poly tube, withdrawing at about 1.5' per minute, in mygarage, which is tantamount to being in the open, except that the halfclosed door tends to channel the insects more directly to the 5' ofbamboo flypaper on which I am working.Until the great explosive expose, I used degrease the section withether* and dip immediately; temperature is between 18 and 24 degrees,and I will no longer dip in the winter, as the couple of rods I triedto do last winter I had to strip right back and do again. I do eachrepeat at 24 hours without sanding between coats unless something vilehas occurred. It seems to me that the stuff is still soft enough at 24hours that it is very hard to do anything except strip down and startagain. Even if you are delicate with 1000 or 1500 paper, you still geta mess, so I don't do it.I use total 3 coats on the tips and 3 or 4 on the butt. It lookspretty slick to begin with, but I leave them a couple of months todry, and somehow they look better then, though why this should be Idon't know.Any help?Peter from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 25 09:43:46 2000 e4PEhj128714 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 25 May 2000 09:30:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Valspar As stated earlier, Valspar was our standard down here, in Texas, but itappears to have been changed by EPA restrictions, like so many others. Ihaven't tried spraying it with an air brush yet, but will soon. It stillseems to work well, but was tach free on wraps much quicker than the oldstuff. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Valspar Hello to all,I am thinking of trying Valspar on my next test rod, anyoneusing this please give me the pros &cons.T.I.AJoe from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 25 11:58:04 2000 e4PGw3103515 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:53:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Polyurethane Gonna mix technologies here. A friend of mine paints custom motorcyclesandeach coat (there are several, just the way we recoat our rods) is allowedtodry at 100 degrees for 24 hours, then put in an oven and heat cured at 150degrees for 30 minutes. When the mulitple coats are finished, it's readytogo, no long term cure time like we are experiencing with multiple coats.Will this work with poly's or varnishes? Anyone do anything like this? Iput mine in a heated drying cabinet, but nothing like this. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Polyurethane The reason your rod is looking even better a month later is that thepoly is still curing. Cure time is significantly extended by yourpractice of recoating before the previous coat is completely cured.I've been using poly on wood for several years, and it almost alwaystakes at least a couple weeks before it reaches maximum hardness. Ifyou do multiple coats as you describe, it takes even longer. The timeto cure is also affected by temperature and humidity (thus all thediscussions and use of drying cabinets). Personally, I believe that along slow cure gives the best finish, as long as you can keep the bugsand dust out of it, and avoid the temptation to play with it in theinterim. -----Original Message-----From: petermckean [SMTP:petermckean@netspace.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 5:53 AM Subject: Polyurethane About the only problem I don't see, Tony, is "fisheyes", and now thatsomeone has told me about them I guess I will have them too!I dip in a poly tube, withdrawing at about 1.5' per minute, in mygarage, which is tantamount to being in the open, except that the halfclosed door tends to channel the insects more directly to the 5' ofbamboo flypaper on which I am working.Until the great explosive expose, I used degrease the section withether* and dip immediately; temperature is between 18 and 24 degrees,and I will no longer dip in the winter, as the couple of rods I triedto do last winter I had to strip right back and do again. I do eachrepeat at 24 hours without sanding between coats unless something vilehas occurred. It seems to me that the stuff is still soft enough at 24hours that it is very hard to do anything except strip down and startagain. Even if you are delicate with 1000 or 1500 paper, you still geta mess, so I don't do it.I use total 3 coats on the tips and 3 or 4 on the butt. It lookspretty slick to begin with, but I leave them a couple of months todry, and somehow they look better then, though why this should be Idon't know.Any help?Peter from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 25 12:12:22 2000 e4PHCL103975 (5.0.1459.74) Subject: RE: Polyurethane I think the answer may be both "yes" and "no". First, the "yes" part.A thin coat of poly placed in a 100 degree environment with very lowhumidity, will be quite close to completely cured in 24 hours, and,based purely on my own experience, will be over 99% cured in 48 hours.So using a very warm, dry cabinet will definitely speed up the process.Doing so presents a different set of problems, however, caused by thediffering chemistry of paints and varnishes. Poly, when cured, creates a cross-linked polymer, in which the moleculesform multiple chemical bonds to the adjacent molecules. This makes foran extremely durable finish, poly's best characteristic. But it is alsowhy poly is difficult to repair, and why wood finishers do a lightsanding between coats. A new coat placed on top of a cured coat willnot form a chemical bond between coats. This is because the first coatis linked to itself, but it does not dissolve in order to link to thenew coat. The light sanding creates crevices and scratches which allowthe formation of a mechanical bond between coats. Without themechanical bond, the second coat may flake off of the first coat whenthe finished item is subjected to stress (e.g., casting). The problemis partially solved, without sanding, by recoating before the first coathas completely cured, thus allowing both mechanical and chemical bondingto occur. The risk here is that you may leave brush marks in thepartially cured first coat, though they will usually be invisible underthe new coat. So while a warm, dry cabinet will speed curing, it creates a new problemwhich can be overcome with a light buffing with 0000 steel wool betweencoats. But while heat and dryness will speed curing, there is apractical limit to how fast the chemical reaction that creates thecross-linked structure can occur. This is not so with paints, whichdon't generally create a polymer at all. When most paints dry, they aredoing just that, drying. The solvents are evaporating, leaving behindthe pigment and solids that make up the finished coating. No chemicalvoodoo going on. The limitation in both cases is how fast can thesolvents be made to evaporate without effecting the othercharacteristics of the finish. I think the speed with which paint canbe made to dry is very different from the speed with which the chemicalcross linking can be made to occur. free to correct me. This is all based on a very few books on finishingandfinish chemistry I read several years ago. -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley [SMTP:caneman@clnk.com]Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Polyurethane Gonna mix technologies here. A friend of mine paints custommotorcycles andeach coat (there are several, just the way we recoat our rods) isallowed todry at 100 degrees for 24 hours, then put in an oven and heat cured at150degrees for 30 minutes. When the mulitple coats are finished, it'sready togo, no long term cure time like we are experiencing with multiplecoats.Will this work with poly's or varnishes? Anyone do anything likethis? Iput mine in a heated drying cabinet, but nothing like this. Bob-----Original Message-----From: James Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 8:58 AMSubject: RE: Polyurethane The reason your rod is looking even better a month later is that thepoly is still curing. Cure time is significantly extended by yourpractice of recoating before the previous coat is completely cured.I've been using poly on wood for several years, and it almost alwaystakes at least a couple weeks before it reaches maximum hardness. Ifyou do multiple coats as you describe, it takes even longer. The timeto cure is also affected by temperature and humidity (thus all thediscussions and use of drying cabinets). Personally, I believe that along slow cure gives the best finish, as long as you can keep the bugsand dust out of it, and avoid the temptation to play with it in theinterim. -----Original Message-----From: petermckean [SMTP:petermckean@netspace.net.au]Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 5:53 AM Subject: Polyurethane About the only problem I don't see, Tony, is "fisheyes", and nowthatsomeone has told me about them I guess I will have them too!I dip in a poly tube, withdrawing at about 1.5' per minute, in mygarage, which is tantamount to being in the open, except that thehalfclosed door tends to channel the insects more directly to the 5' ofbamboo flypaper on which I am working.Until the great explosive expose, I used degrease the section withether* and dip immediately; temperature is between 18 and 24degrees,and I will no longer dip in the winter, as the couple of rods Itriedto do last winter I had to strip right back and do again. I do eachrepeat at 24 hours without sanding between coats unless somethingvilehas occurred. It seems to me that the stuff is still soft enough at24hours that it is very hard to do anything except strip down andstartagain. Even if you are delicate with 1000 or 1500 paper, you stillgeta mess, so I don't do it.I use total 3 coats on the tips and 3 or 4 on the butt. It lookspretty slick to begin with, but I leave them a couple of months todry, and somehow they look better then, though why this should be Idon't know.Any help?Peter from tklein@amgen.com Thu May 25 12:26:09 2000 e4PHQ8104672 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Titebond website family of glue products: http://www.titebond.com Specifications for the products recently discussed here are available,including the extended set Titebond II (look under Cabinet shop glues) ---Timx11512 from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu May 25 12:27:35 2000 e4PHRZ104718 Subject: Rod Handling I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that is howa rod handles. I have seen things that almost touch on the subject, but notquite in the depth that I think itdeserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing whatthey call leveraged weight as opposedto actual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, and far reaching init’s implications if it wasfully understood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand were notnecessarily actually light, but dueto the rod itself or the reel on the rod being heavier, balanced somewhereon the grip. I could actuallybalance the rod horizontally on my fingertip, and my fingertip wassomewhere on the cork of the grip. Theserods felt light and fast. Rods that felt heavy, even slow and ponderous(this even included some plastic rods)had a balance point far forward of the grip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboo rodusers. They are generally heavier andwill counter-balance a rod more than the ultra lightweight modern reelswill. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboo rod,and with an Orvis Battenkill reel(one of the heavier reels), I started wrapping lead tape around the reelseat. When the rod balanced somewhereon the handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling of a rod beingheavy is due to the leverage of therod and having to fight it when reversing the weight back and forth duringcasting. But, the big wad of leadaround the reel seat would be hard to duplicate when making a bamboo rod.Swelled butts? Lead tape under thereel seat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on thehandle and see if your roddoesn’t feel lighter when you cast it when it is actually heavierwith the extra weight.Darryl from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 25 12:33:43 2000 e4PHXg105140 (5.0.1459.74) Subject: RE: Rod Handling In another forum, someone recently suggested using lead core line forthis purpose. Figure out how much of it you need to attain the feel youwant, then add it to the reel-end of your backing. This doesn't makesnese if you use one reel for multiple rods, but might be good if youhave a dedicated setup that you use a lot. Also, don't some of the oldPglueger's have a way to add weight to the center of the arbor? -----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com [SMTP:DNHayashida@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 11:27 AM Subject: Rod Handling I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seenthings that almost touch on the subject, but not quite in the depththat I think it deserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny littleillustration showing what they call leveraged weight as opposed toactual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, and far reaching init’s implications if it was fully understood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand werenot necessarily actually light, but due to the rod itself or the reelon the rod being heavier, balanced somewhere on the grip. I couldactually balance the rod horizontally on my fingertip, and myfingertip was somewhere on the cork of the grip. These rods felt lightand fast. Rods that felt heavy, even slow and ponderous (this evenincluded some plastic rods) had a balance point far forward of thegrip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboorod users. They are generally heavier and will counter-balance a rodmore than the ultra lightweight modern reels will. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboorod, and with an Orvis Battenkill reel (one of the heavier reels), Istarted wrapping lead tape around the reel seat. When the rod balancedsomewhere on the handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling ofa rod being heavy is due to the leverage of the rod and having tofight it when reversing the weight back and forth during casting. But,the big wad of lead around the reel seat would be hard to duplicatewhen making a bamboo rod. Swelled butts? Lead tape under the reelseat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on thehandle and see if your rod doesn’t feel lighter when you cast itwhen it is actually heavier with the extra weight.Darryl from earsdws@duke.edu Thu May 25 12:48:30 2000 e4PHmT105633 NAA08112; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University MedicalCenter Subject: Re: Rod Handling Darryl,They're right on target. I spent several days a year or so ago on the SanJuan, fishing a 5wt Hardy CC deFrance. I thought I was going to die towards the end of each day, myforearm was throbbing from trying tokeep the tip up (my jerk "plastic rod companion chuckled for the wholeweek). While not esthetically pleasing(given the rod), I found my old heavy Pflueger the best "fit." Since thattime, I have purchased a couple ofheavier, old reels to further balance the rods. For the other, newerbamboo rods I've purchased, I always fita few reelsfirst to make sure the rods will be serviceable (one of prime criteria atthis point).dws. DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that ishow a rod handles. I have seen things that almost touch on the subject, butnot quite in the depth that Ithink it deserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showingwhat they call leveraged weight asopposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, and far reachingin it’s implications if itwas fully understood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand were notnecessarily actually light, butdue to the rod itself or the reel on the rod being heavier, balancedsomewhere on the grip. I could actuallybalance the rod horizontally on my fingertip, and my fingertip wassomewhere on the cork of the grip. Theserods felt light and fast. Rods that felt heavy, even slow and ponderous(this even included some plastic rods)had a balance point far forward of the grip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboo rodusers. They are generally heavierand will counter-balance a rod more than the ultra lightweight modernreels will. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboorod, and with an Orvis Battenkill reel(one of the heavier reels), I started wrapping lead tape around the reelseat. When the rod balanced somewhereon the handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling of a rod beingheavy is due to the leverage of therod and having to fight it when reversing the weight back and forth duringcasting. But, the big wad of leadaround the reel seat would be hard to duplicate when making a bamboo rod.Swelled butts? Lead tape under thereel seat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on thehandle and see if your roddoesn’t feel lighter when you cast it when it is actually heavierwith the extra weight.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 25 12:48:31 2000 e4PHmU105638 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:44:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Handling Good point. Just by coincidence, I just finished my "Tarpon/steelhead" rodnot long ago. I put a 14 inch handle, reel seat, then a 4" fighting butt onit. Almost like a two handed rod, but the handle being more forward onthisrod, makes it a pleasure to cast. It's a 9' 9 wt and is no effort at all tocast this thing. When I first started it (this is the heaviest rod I haveEVER built), I honestly thought. "Oh, this will be OK for sight casting,but sure wouldn't want to cast it all day long", but it turned out to be alot less effort to cast and handle than I anticipated. Maybe it's becauseof the accidental balance I put in it by using a long forward grip and the4" fighting butt. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Handling I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen thingsthat almost touch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I think itdeserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing whattheycall leveraged weight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this iscorrect, and far reaching in it’s implications if it was fullyunderstood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand were notnecessarily actually light, but due to the rod itself or the reel on the rodbeing heavier, balanced somewhere on the grip. I could actually balancetherod horizontally on my fingertip, and my fingertip was somewhere on thecorkof the grip. These rods felt light and fast. Rods that felt heavy, even slowand ponderous (this even included some plastic rods) had a balance pointfarforward of the grip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboo rodusers. They are generally heavier and will counter-balance a rod more thanthe ultra lightweight modern reels will. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboorod,and with an Orvis Battenkill reel (one of the heavier reels), I startedwrapping lead tape around the reel seat. When the rod balanced somewhereonthe handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling of a rod being heavyis due to the leverage of the rod and having to fight it when reversing theweight back and forth during casting. But, the big wad of lead around thereel seat would be hard to duplicate when making a bamboo rod. Swelledbutts? Lead tape under the reel seat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on thehandle and see if your rod doesn’t feel lighter when you cast itwhenit is actually heavier with the extra weight.Darryl from oossg@vbe.com Thu May 25 13:34:42 2000 e4PIYf107545 (envelope- from oossg@vbe.com) Organization: Oshkosh Office Systems, Inc. Subject: Three Letters List, I'm a little slow on picking up what some of these mean? GMATIABTWMight be others I haven't seen yet? Scott from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu May 25 13:49:01 2000 e4PIn0108033 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA08622 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA30821 for Subject: Re: Three Letters Here's a web site with all the major acronyms: http://www.tangled.com/acronyms.htm ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 25 May 2000, Scott Grady wrote: List, I'm a little slow on picking up what some of these mean? GMATIABTWMight be others I haven't seen yet? Scott from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu May 25 14:44:45 2000 e4PJij109542 Subject: Re: Rod Handling Darryl, you have discovered the reason why up to about 35 years ago thereusually were discussions in most references (books, magazines) re a"balanced outfit" with the rod/reel combo balancing at least in front ofthe grip, but usually somewhere back on the grip. Indeed, many a friendlyargument was held regarding just where a rod/reel should "balance." Manyfly fishers did wrap strips of lead around the reel spool. Couldn't do itwith the old automatics (brim and bass days) but the automatic reels wereusually more than heavy enough to balance an 8'6" bass rod.J. Snider At 01:27 PM 05/25/2000 -0400, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote:I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen things that almost touch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I think it deserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing whatthey call leveraged weight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, and far reaching in it’s implications if it was fully understood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand were not necessarily actually light, but due to the rod itself or the reel on the rod being heavier, balanced somewhere on the grip. I could actually balancethe rod horizontally on my fingertip, and my fingertip was somewhere on thecork of the grip. These rods felt light and fast. Rods that felt heavy, even slow and ponderous (this even included some plastic rods) had a balance pointfar forward of the grip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboo rod users. They are generally heavier and will counter-balance a rod morethan the ultra lightweight modern reels will. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboorod, and with an Orvis Battenkill reel (one of the heavier reels), I started wrapping lead tape around the reel seat. When the rod balancedsomewhere on the handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling of a rod being heavy is due to the leverage of the rod and having to fight it when reversing the weight back and forth during casting. But, the big wad of lead around the reel seat would be hard to duplicate when making a bamboo rod. Swelled butts? Lead tape under the reel seat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on the handle and see if your rod doesn’t feel lighter when you cast itwhen it is actually heavier with the extra weight.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 25 14:55:43 2000 e4PJth109948 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 25 May 2000 14:51:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Handling List,Let me correct myself. When I spouted out those numbers on the griplength of the Tarpon rod a bit ago, I was just working off the top of myhead and unintentionally mislead you. The total length of all cork on therod is 14 1/2", not a 14 inch forward handle, and I had forgotten how I hadit distributed, too. The forward part of the grip is 8 3/8" and thefighting butt is 6 1/8".Regardless, Darryl's post got me curious so I got the rod out, mountedthe large loop reel with line on it that I will use for this rod, pivotedthe rod on the edge of a chair just forward of the reel on the grip and putthe tip top on the triple beam scales. What I came up with was aleveragedweight at the tip top of .94 ounces. I was curious as to how this comparedwith my other rods with the reels that I use on them, and here is what Icame up with. First on the list is the rod I was writing about above. Rod Total Wt without reel Tipweight/pivoted9' 9wt 7.0 oz0.94 oz8' 5wt 5.3 oz0.66 oz7' 4wt 3.9 oz0.41 oz6'9" 3wt (swelled butt) 4.0 oz 0.39 oz6'2wt 2.3 oz0.33 oz As you can see, all of the rods were pretty light out on the tip top,with the deviation being from 9.75% of total wt to 14.34%. I think thateven the heaviest rod at 0.94 ounces is comfortable, but what if I hadn'thad that fighting butt on the 9ft 9 wt. Well, it can't be extremelyaccurate because of the extended lenght of the grip, but I did tape the reelto the fighting butt, where it would normally be mounted, and weighed offofthe tip top the same way as before and the difference is massive. Tip topweight went from .94 ounces to 1.48 ounces. Now that could wear on anelbowover a days casting! Thoughts? Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Handling I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen thingsthat almost touch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I think itdeserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing whattheycall leveraged weight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this iscorrect, and far reaching in it’s implications if it was fullyunderstood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand were notnecessarily actually light, but due to the rod itself or the reel on the rodbeing heavier, balanced somewhere on the grip. I could actually balancetherod horizontally on my fingertip, and my fingertip was somewhere on thecorkof the grip. These rods felt light and fast. Rods that felt heavy, even slowand ponderous (this even included some plastic rods) had a balance pointfarforward of the grip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboo rodusers. They are generally heavier and will counter-balance a rod more thanthe ultra lightweight modern reels will. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboorod,and with an Orvis Battenkill reel (one of the heavier reels), I startedwrapping lead tape around the reel seat. When the rod balanced somewhereonthe handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling of a rod being heavyis due to the leverage of the rod and having to fight it when reversing theweight back and forth during casting. But, the big wad of lead around thereel seat would be hard to duplicate when making a bamboo rod. Swelledbutts? Lead tape under the reel seat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on thehandle and see if your rod doesn’t feel lighter when you cast itwhenit is actually heavier with the extra weight.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 25 15:06:32 2000 e4PK6V110443 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 25 May 2000 15:02:13 -0500 Subject: Fw: Rod Handling Boy, that came out a jumbled up mess on my end. Looked so neat andorganized when I sent it from here. Let me try again... here is the tableI tried to list, each line is the rod, rods total weight and tip topleveraged weight with the rod pivoted just forward of the reel, in thatorder 9' 9wt 7.0 oz 0.94 oz8' 5wt 5.3 oz 0.66 oz7' 4wt 3.9 oz 0.41 oz6'9" 3wt 4.0 oz 0.39 oz6'2wt 2.3 oz 0.33 oz There, easier to read that way. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Handling List,Let me correct myself. When I spouted out those numbers on the griplength of the Tarpon rod a bit ago, I was just working off the top of myhead and unintentionally mislead you. The total length of all cork on therod is 14 1/2", not a 14 inch forward handle, and I had forgotten how Ihadit distributed, too. The forward part of the grip is 8 3/8" and thefighting butt is 6 1/8".Regardless, Darryl's post got me curious so I got the rod out, mountedthe large loop reel with line on it that I will use for this rod, pivotedthe rod on the edge of a chair just forward of the reel on the grip and putthe tip top on the triple beam scales. What I came up with was aleveragedweight at the tip top of .94 ounces. I was curious as to how thiscomparedwith my other rods with the reels that I use on them, and here is what Icame up with. First on the list is the rod I was writing about above. Rod Total Wt without reel Tipweight/pivoted9' 9wt 7.0 oz0.94 oz8' 5wt 5.3 oz0.66 oz7' 4wt 3.9 oz0.41 oz6'9" 3wt (swelled butt) 4.0 oz 0.39 oz6'2wt 2.3 oz0.33 oz As you can see, all of the rods were pretty light out on the tip top,with the deviation being from 9.75% of total wt to 14.34%. I think thateven the heaviest rod at 0.94 ounces is comfortable, but what if I hadn'thad that fighting butt on the 9ft 9 wt. Well, it can't be extremelyaccurate because of the extended lenght of the grip, but I did tape thereelto the fighting butt, where it would normally be mounted, and weighedoffofthe tip top the same way as before and the difference is massive. Tip topweight went from .94 ounces to 1.48 ounces. Now that could wear on anelbowover a days casting! Thoughts? Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 12:25 PMSubject: Rod Handling I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen thingsthat almost touch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I thinkitdeserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing whattheycall leveraged weight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this iscorrect, and far reaching in it’s implications if it was fullyunderstood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand were notnecessarily actually light, but due to the rod itself or the reel on therodbeing heavier, balanced somewhere on the grip. I could actually balancetherod horizontally on my fingertip, and my fingertip was somewhere on thecorkof the grip. These rods felt light and fast. Rods that felt heavy, evenslowand ponderous (this even included some plastic rods) had a balance pointfarforward of the grip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboo rodusers. They are generally heavier and will counter-balance a rod morethanthe ultra lightweight modern reels will. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboorod,and with an Orvis Battenkill reel (one of the heavier reels), I startedwrapping lead tape around the reel seat. When the rod balancedsomewhere onthe handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling of a rod being heavyis due to the leverage of the rod and having to fight it when reversing theweight back and forth during casting. But, the big wad of lead around thereel seat would be hard to duplicate when making a bamboo rod. Swelledbutts? Lead tape under the reel seat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on thehandle and see if your rod doesn’t feel lighter when you cast itwhenit is actually heavier with the extra weight.Darryl from bob@downandacross.com Thu May 25 15:41:52 2000 e4PKfq111714 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Three Letters GMA is George. He is not really an acronym.Bob At 01:49 PM 5/25/00 -0500, you wrote:Here's a web site with all the major acronyms: http://www.tangled.com/acronyms.htm ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 25 May 2000, Scott Grady wrote: List, I'm a little slow on picking up what some of these mean? GMATIABTWMight be others I haven't seen yet? Scott Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 25 15:57:49 2000 e4PKvn112300 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 25 May 2000 15:58:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Handling As I had it explained to me, back in the early '50's, a "balanced outfit"was in relation to having the proper line that allowed the rod to cast thebest. Or cast the best, with X amount of line past the tip. Balancing the weight of the reel to the length of the rod, etc., was atotally different thing. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod Handling Darryl, you have discovered the reason why up to about 35 years agothereusually were discussions in most references (books, magazines) re a"balanced outfit" with the rod/reel combo balancing at least in front ofthe grip, but usually somewhere back on the grip. Indeed, many a friendlyargument was held regarding just where a rod/reel should "balance."Manyfly fishers did wrap strips of lead around the reel spool. Couldn't do itwith the old automatics (brim and bass days) but the automatic reelswereusually more than heavy enough to balance an 8'6" bass rod.J. Snider At 01:27 PM 05/25/2000 -0400, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote:I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontextof fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen things thatalmost touch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I think itdeserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing whattheycall leveraged weight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think thisiscorrect, and far reaching in it’s implications if it was fullyunderstood. Rods I have used fishing or cast that have felt light in my hand were notnecessarily actually light, but due to the rod itself or the reel on therodbeing heavier, balanced somewhere on the grip. I could actually balancetherod horizontally on my fingertip, and my fingertip was somewhere onthecorkof the grip. These rods felt light and fast. Rods that felt heavy, evenslowand ponderous (this even included some plastic rods) had a balance pointfarforward of the grip. I think this is why Pfluger reels have their fans, especially bamboo rodusers. They are generally heavier and will counter-balance a rod morethanthe ultra lightweight modern reels will. Testing this idea, I took an 8 1/2 foot Phillipson impregnated bamboorod,and with an Orvis Battenkill reel (one of the heavier reels), I startedwrapping lead tape around the reel seat. When the rod balancedsomewhereonthe handle it felt more like a 7 foot rod. The feeling of a rod beingheavyis due to the leverage of the rod and having to fight it when reversingtheweight back and forth during casting. But, the big wad of lead aroundthereel seat would be hard to duplicate when making a bamboo rod. Swelledbutts? Lead tape under the reel seat? Try it. Counterbalance your rod so that the point of balance is on thehandle and see if your rod doesn’t feel lighter when you cast itwhenit is actually heavier with the extra weight.Darryl from tklein@amgen.com Thu May 25 16:00:02 2000 e4PL02112475 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Three Letters Not a very complete list, is it? (it doesn't even list SWMBO)---Tim ----------From: Frank Stetzer[SMTP:stetzer@csd.uwm.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Three Letters Here's a web site with all the major acronyms: http://www.tangled.com/acronyms.htm ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from horsesho@ptd.net Thu May 25 17:26:49 2000 e4PMQm115260 0000 (204.186.33.92) Organization: ProLog Subject: Titebond II Extend (slow set) Hi All, I talked to a Factory Tech. at Titebond and found out a couplethings. The shelf life of the Titebond II extend is 6 months, regularTitebond II is 3 years. The Urac I have been using is also +or- 6months. Titebond II extend is listed as heat resistent. The product hasa tested strength of 3250 PSI and when cured and heated to 150degrees Ftested at 3000 F. It was not tested at a higher temp. I don't know theexact temp. the cane gets to during heat straightening but I think it'shigher than 150. The Tech. felt that if heated any higher than 150 thePSI will drop off rapidly. I guess I will stick with URAC. Marty from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu May 25 17:37:13 2000 e4PMbC115661 Subject: Re: Rod Handling Anyone ever thought of drilling a hole in the butt of the rod and putting lead in it to balance the rod. Just a thought from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu May 25 17:39:13 2000 e4PMdC115875 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ACA524A00F2; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:43:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Handling Darryl,I have always found that heavy reels suit my casting style (if I haveone); however, some don't like thependulum effect. Funny how Orvis came up a few years ago with a"damping" in the grip area, the same effect asusing a heavy reel.You can take the plastic (or metal) cover off the Pfleuger spool and dropspitchot down the hole. That'swhy it is there.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontext of fly fishing rods, that ishow a rod handles. I have seen things that almost touch on the subject, butnot quite in the depth that Ithink it deserves. The Orvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showingwhat they call leveraged weight asopposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, and far reachingin it’s implications if itwas fully understood. from briansr@point-net.com Thu May 25 18:31:51 2000 e4PNVp117153 Subject: Re:rod handling Organization: Some thoughts on thisA friend of mine is making "plastic "rods with the cork handle right backon the rod ,over the reel foot.Calls his "invention" the Beaver Tail. Herecons folk tend to naturally hold the rod further back than conventionalhandles allow. I feel the virdict is still out on this though.Another person I know had his favourite Hardy 4in+ ALL BRASS Spey reelreplaced with a custom made Titanium cage Brass side 4 1/2 in monsterthatweighs 20 1/2 oz !!!!!!! I'll be trying this setup in 2 weeks (YIKES) Yeah Iknow it's extreme Or should i say "different strokes for differentfolks"Cheers Brian from djk762@hotmail.com Thu May 25 19:12:15 2000 e4Q0CE117999 Thu, 25 May 2000 17:12:09 PDT Subject: No Mail/Join/Help! Webmaster- I am not getting Rodmaker's mail. Do you still show me on the list? -Thank You, David Kashuba.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com from cheaney@nwol.net Thu May 25 22:07:04 2000 e4Q373120714 Subject: Removal from Your Mailing List boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFC695.C882B820" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFC695.C882B820 Everyone, Thank you very much for helping me identify my father's old fishing =rods. Since I'm not a rodmaker, I'd like for you to remove me from your =mailing list. I plan to sell the rods on ebay after I get up to speed =on its use. If anyone would like to be notified when I put the rods up = help. Steve Cheaney ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFC695.C882B820 Everyone, Thank you very much for helping me identify my = help. Steve Cheaney ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFC695.C882B820-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 25 23:08:19 2000 e4Q48I121803 Subject: Re: Rod Handling rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Now someof you know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to own myown fly shop ( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where the line weight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balances onyour finger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says it throws a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wght instead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has the correct line on it.Bret from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu May 25 23:18:34 2000 e4Q4IX122071 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 25 May 2000 23:05:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Handling That's what I was taught back in the early '50's. There was a fishing pal ofPaul Young there in Dallas, named Don West. He did much to make PHY rodspopular there, and fished with Paul, out in the Western states. He had classes at his home, and showed us all how to splice a line toproperly balance a rod. He was a short tempered old guy, and finished allhis PHY rods by dipping them in lacquer ! When the lacquer would get dings,or start to peel, he'd just dip the again !----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Rod Handling OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsome ofyou know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to own myownfly shop( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where thelineweight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balances onyourfinger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says itthrows a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wghtinstead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has the correctline on it.Bret from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri May 26 00:09:23 2000 e4Q59L122949 Subject: Poly varnish Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC723.B7E53D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC723.B7E53D60 Between Bob, James, and George I have just found out more useful stuff =about Polyurethane varnish than I have managed to glean over three years=- and, of course, must count in John Zimny's marvellous articles in The =Planing Form!Can't thank you all enough.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC723.B7E53D60 Between Bob, James, and George I have= glean over three years - and, of course, must count in John Zimny's = articles in The Planing Form!Can't thank you all =enough.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFC723.B7E53D60-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri May 26 03:57:55 2000 e4Q8vr125526 Subject: Linseed vs. Tung oil Anyone know wich of Tung - or Linseed oil is the most waterproof? TIAdanny from bh887@lafn.org Fri May 26 04:13:54 2000 e4Q9Dr125761 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) , Subject: Re: Rod Handling Ray Berman defined a balanced outfit as that combination of rod, reel, andline which performed best for the person using it. Which is what I wastaught when I start3d in the '30's. Ray wrote the definition in the '70's. Lee----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Rod Handling OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsome ofyou know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to own myownfly shop( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where thelineweight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balances onyourfinger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says itthrows a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wghtinstead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has the correctline on it.Bret from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri May 26 05:32:04 2000 e4QAW2126821 Subject: three letters Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFC750.CF6E80E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFC750.CF6E80E0 Thanks, FrankPeter ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFC750.CF6E80E0 Thanks, FrankPeter ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFC750.CF6E80E0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri May 26 05:35:52 2000 e4QAZo126940 BA5027E8E66 Subject: Tim Klein Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFC751.58566A80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFC751.58566A80 Yeah, misprint.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFC751.58566A80 Yeah, misprint.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFC751.58566A80-- from briansr@point-net.com Fri May 26 05:47:17 2000 e4QAlG127173 Fri, 26 May 2000 06:46:55 -0400 , Subject: Re: Rod Handling Organization: A Casting instructer I ain't ,but i DO agreeCheers Brian----- Original Message - ---- ; Subject: Re: Rod Handling OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsome ofyou know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to own myownfly shop( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where thelineweight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balances onyourfinger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says itthrows a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wghtinstead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has the correctline on it.Bret from briansr@point-net.com Fri May 26 05:56:21 2000 e4QAuK127359 Subject: last of the Salmon porn Organization: The danes have replied with some pics taken in Swedenhttp://www.rekordfiske.se/ragge2000.jpgNice looking pool too !!!Cheers Brian from homessold@email.msn.com Fri May 26 06:43:24 2000 e4QBhN128027 SMTPSVC;Fri, 26 May 2000 04:43:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Titebond II Extend (slow set) Anyone know the temperature where URAC breaks down? Seem like I foundthisonce on the web and it was around 300 degreesF but can't find it again. Don Schneider ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Titebond II Extend (slow set) Hi All, I talked to a Factory Tech. at Titebond and found out a couplethings. The shelf life of the Titebond II extend is 6 months, regularTitebond II is 3 years. The Urac I have been using is also +or- 6months. Titebond II extend is listed as heat resistent. The product hasa tested strength of 3250 PSI and when cured and heated to 150degrees Ftested at 3000 F. It was not tested at a higher temp. I don't know theexact temp. the cane gets to during heat straightening but I think it'shigher than 150. The Tech. felt that if heated any higher than 150 thePSI will drop off rapidly. I guess I will stick with URAC. Marty from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri May 26 07:25:22 2000 e4QCPL128916 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Fri, 26 May 2000 06:25:20 -0600 Subject: Re: dressing ferrules Darin, There are a few things that you might try: - Chamfer the male end @ a 30 degree angle or so. The very tip of the malemaybe slightly oversized. This will help the male insert into the femaleeasier.- Occasionally, for whatever reason, the tip end of male seems to swell.This seems to happen after gluing and may be the result of high pressuresgenerated when installing the ferrule with the glue in place andattemptingto flow the excess glue out along the cane. Lap the male using 1000 grit orless. The 1000 grit should be taped to the flat surface like a piece ofglass. Hold the cane a flat as possible the taped 1000 grit and stroke withlight strokes while spinning the rod in you hand. If you have a lathe, lapthe ferrule there. Be very careful - you can over lap quickly.- Further fit problems can be caused by the "heat of compression" whilepushing the male into the female. The "heat of compression" of the air willcause the female to expand along with the male - they however do notexpandor contract @ the same rate resulting in a nice fitting ferrule being veryloose the next day. When I'm getting close, I leave the ferrule for a while- couple of hours or so for the temp. to equalize.- Some ferrules are more oversized that others making the fitting job areal task. The further they are off the worse things seem to get. If theyare off a couple of thou., I spin them in the lathe to get the male @least close.- And just when you figured the ferrule is about perfect, you take the rodfishing and the ferrule is too tight to remove. Or better yet, the male hasexpanded so much that sliding them together is impossible. This issue hasbeen reviewed by others before and experienced by a host of us. Whether itis caused by the sane swelling or surface corrosion or what is not clear.The cure is resizing the male again. [ Assuming of course, that the femaleis clean.] Best of luck, Don At 11:22 AM 5/23/00 -0600, Darin J Law wrote: I mounted my ferrules on the RR-112 8' 5/6 wt. that I am making and Ibegan dressing them last night. I began by using 1500 grit sandpaper and was getting absolutely nowhere. So I went to 800 grit and amstill getting nowhere. After a couple of hours I still am not close tobeing able to put the rod sections together. Any ideas? These are nicklesilver ferrules that look great on the rod, I just don't want to ruin them Thanks so much,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from earsdws@duke.edu Fri May 26 08:23:15 2000 e4QDNE100775 JAA21064; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University MedicalCenter Subject: Re: Rod Handling I concur. The definition of a "balanced" outfit being a wt line matched to anumber written on the butt of a rod, matched to a size of a reel is kindalikeHallmark defining holidays...something designed to sell a product. Being auser, not a salesman, I vote for Mr. Berman's definition of balanced.dws. Lee Freeman wrote: Ray Berman defined a balanced outfit as that combination of rod, reel,andline which performed best for the person using it. Which is what I wastaught when I start3d in the '30's. Ray wrote the definition in the '70's. Lee----- Original Message -----From: ; Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:07 PMSubject: Re: Rod Handling OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsome ofyou know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to ownmyownfly shop( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where thelineweight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balancesonyourfinger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says itthrows a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wghtinstead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has thecorrectline on it.Bret from piscator@crosswinds.net Fri May 26 08:26:34 2000 e4QDQX101028 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Rod Handling There was a great special on the Discovery or History channel last winteronthese guys from the US and (I think) Scotland who were building giantsiegeengines, or "flinger thingers." They threw giant boulders a mile, and allthework was done by hanging a great counter weight on the end of a lever(monstertimber, like a salmon rod), winding the thing up (back cast/loading), tyingit off (storing energy), and releasing it by cutting the rope holding thelever(forward cast). I've noticed the phenomena before while casting a 9'Heddon#17 2.5 F with a big pflueger medalist. Takes some getting used to. Brian Darryl,I have always found that heavy reels suit my casting style (if I haveone);however, some don't like the pendulum effect. Funny how Orvis came up afewyears ago with a "damping" in the grip area, the same effect as using aheavyreel.You can take the plastic (or metal) cover off the Pfleuger spool anddropspitchot down the hole. That's why it is there.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontextof fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen things thatalmosttouch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I think it deserves.TheOrvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing what they callleveragedweight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, and farreaching in it's implications if it was fully understood. from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 26 08:42:43 2000 e4QDgg101570 , Subject: Re: Rod Handling I remember reading that tournament distance casters used to cast withoutreels on their rods.Steve OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsome ofyou know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to own myownfly shop( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where thelineweight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balances onyourfinger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says itthrows a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wghtinstead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has the correctline on it.Bret from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 26 08:43:53 2000 e4QDhr101682 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 26 May 2000 08:44:50 -0500 Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn Good grief ! Talk about hooking into a freight train ! Woof ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: last of the Salmon porn The danes have replied with some pics taken in Swedenhttp://www.rekordfiske.se/ragge2000.jpgNice looking pool too !!!Cheers Brian from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 26 08:50:21 2000 e4QDoJ102015 Subject: Re: Rod Handling My problem is waiting for my helper to tie it off and then cut the rope,especially when the fish are rising.Steve There was a great special on the Discovery or History channel lastwinteronthese guys from the US and (I think) Scotland who were building giantsiegeengines, or "flinger thingers." They threw giant boulders a mile, and allthework was done by hanging a great counter weight on the end of a lever(monstertimber, like a salmon rod), winding the thing up (back cast/loading),tyingit off (storing energy), and releasing it by cutting the rope holding thelever(forward cast). I've noticed the phenomena before while casting a 9'Heddon#17 2.5 F with a big pflueger medalist. Takes some getting used to. Brian Darryl,I have always found that heavy reels suit my casting style (if I haveone);however, some don't like the pendulum effect. Funny how Orvis came up afewyears ago with a "damping" in the grip area, the same effect as using aheavyreel.You can take the plastic (or metal) cover off the Pfleuger spool anddropspitchot down the hole. That's why it is there.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontextof fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen things thatalmosttouch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I think it deserves.TheOrvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing what they callleveragedweight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, andfarreaching in it's implications if it was fully understood. from Jon.Beckton@asml.nl Fri May 26 08:52:29 2000 e4QDqS102139 (MET DST) (MET DST) Organization: ASML Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn If you're interested in hooking into freight trains, take a look atthis: http://www.flyshop.com/centers/midwest/09-99carp/ Jon Beckton nobler wrote: Good grief ! Talk about hooking into a freight train ! Woof ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:55 AMSubject: last of the Salmon porn The danes have replied with some pics taken in Swedenhttp://www.rekordfiske.se/ragge2000.jpgNice looking pool too !!!Cheers Brian from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 26 09:10:36 2000 e4QEAa102707 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 26 May 2000 09:11:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Linseed vs. Tung oil Someone published a study on all the various finishes a few months ago. Itshowed moisture penetration vs. protection for all the types. I thought Ihad saved it, but now can't find it. If possible, could anyone who has it, please put it on again ? Thanks, GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Linseed vs. Tung oil Anyone know wich of Tung - or Linseed oil is the most waterproof? TIAdanny from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri May 26 09:21:53 2000 e4QELq103181 , , Subject: Re: Rod Handling Not to be picky, it was Ray Bergman. He wrote a book called "Trout," beforeSchwiebert (1938)! -Doug At 02:15 AM 5/26/2000 -0700, Lee Freeman wrote:Ray Berman defined a balanced outfit as that combination of rod, reel,andline which performed best for the person using it. Which is what I wastaught when I start3d in the '30's. Ray wrote the definition in the '70's. Lee----- Original Message -----From: ; Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:07 PMSubject: Re: Rod Handling OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsome ofyou know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to ownmyownfly shop( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where thelineweight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balances onyourfinger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says itthrows a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wghtinstead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has thecorrectline on it.Bret from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri May 26 09:26:29 2000 e4QEQQ103399 Fri, 26 May 2000 22:27:21 +0800 Subject: Re: Rod Handling rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu It wasn't Discovery, it was the opening scenes of Gladiator :-) At 09:26 AM 5/26/00 -0400, Brian D. Creek wrote:There was a great special on the Discovery or History channel last winteronthese guys from the US and (I think) Scotland who were building giantsiegeengines, or "flinger thingers." They threw giant boulders a mile, and allthework was done by hanging a great counter weight on the end of a lever(monstertimber, like a salmon rod), winding the thing up (back cast/loading), tyingit off (storing energy), and releasing it by cutting the rope holding thelever(forward cast). I've noticed the phenomena before while casting a 9'Heddon#17 2.5 F with a big pflueger medalist. Takes some getting used to. Brian Darryl,I have always found that heavy reels suit my casting style (if I haveone);however, some don't like the pendulum effect. Funny how Orvis came up afewyears ago with a "damping" in the grip area, the same effect as using aheavyreel.You can take the plastic (or metal) cover off the Pfleuger spool anddropspitchot down the hole. That's why it is there.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I would like to broach a subject that I have not seen come up in thecontextof fly fishing rods, that is how a rod handles. I have seen things thatalmosttouch on the subject, but not quite in the depth that I think it deserves.TheOrvis catalog has a tiny little illustration showing what they callleveragedweight as opposed to actual weight of a rod. I think this is correct, andfarreaching in it's implications if it was fully understood. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri May 26 09:38:19 2000 e4QEcG103960 Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn Oh yeah? Check this out. It's not a Salmon so it may not count but thesepuppies are great fun to catch http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/sampson1.jpg At 03:52 PM 5/26/00 +0200, you wrote:If you're interested in hooking into freight trains, take a look atthis: http://www.flyshop.com/centers/midwest/09-99carp/ Jon Beckton nobler wrote: Good grief ! Talk about hooking into a freight train ! Woof ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:55 AMSubject: last of the Salmon porn The danes have replied with some pics taken in Swedenhttp://www.rekordfiske.se/ragge2000.jpgNice looking pool too !!!Cheers Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri May 26 09:42:29 2000 e4QEgT104185 (5.0.1459.74) Subject: RE: Rod Handling While I agree that is the regular, accepted usage of the term "balancedoutfit," the issue brought up by DNHayashida is still a good one.Choosing the right amount of weight to place at the butt end of a rodcan be important. It's why one can cast a relatively heavy cane rod andend up no more fatigued than someone who spends the same time whippingout their light weight, HMG rod, with the latest titanium reel and seat,all weighing no more than a 1/4 oz. -----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com [SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 10:08 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod Handling OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsome of you know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to ownmy own fly shop ( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit wherethe line weight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balanceson your finger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that saysit throws a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wght instead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has thecorrect line on it.Bret from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri May 26 09:58:44 2000 e4QEwh104778 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn Doesn't look much like a puppy either, Tony. I knew you had some awfully interesting animals in your area, but justnot puppies that look like this. Tony Young wrote: Oh yeah? Check this out. It's not a Salmon so it may not count but thesepuppies are great fun to catch http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/sampson1.jpg At 03:52 PM 5/26/00 +0200, you wrote:If you're interested in hooking into freight trains, take a look atthis: http://www.flyshop.com/centers/midwest/09-99carp/ Jon Beckton nobler wrote: Good grief ! Talk about hooking into a freight train ! Woof ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:55 AMSubject: last of the Salmon porn The danes have replied with some pics taken in Swedenhttp://www.rekordfiske.se/ragge2000.jpgNice looking pool too !!!Cheers Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri May 26 10:04:04 2000 e4QF40104987 Fri, 26 May 2000 23:03:54 +0800 Fri, 26 May 2000 23:03:52 +0800 Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn Well, there was a lot happening, I *could* have mistaken it for a puppy butnow I look again, yep, it's a fish :-) At 10:59 AM 5/26/00 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:Doesn't look much like a puppy either, Tony. I knew you had some awfully interesting animals in your area, but justnot puppies that look like this. Tony Young wrote: Oh yeah? Check this out. It's not a Salmon so it may not count but thesepuppies are great fun to catch http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/sampson1.jpg At 03:52 PM 5/26/00 +0200, you wrote:If you're interested in hooking into freight trains, take a look atthis: http://www.flyshop.com/centers/midwest/09-99carp/ Jon Beckton nobler wrote: Good grief ! Talk about hooking into a freight train ! Woof ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:55 AMSubject: last of the Salmon porn The danes have replied with some pics taken in Swedenhttp://www.rekordfiske.se/ragge2000.jpgNice looking pool too !!!Cheers Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri May 26 10:13:06 2000 e4QFD6105340 Subject: Rod Weight (Addendum to Rod Handling) Against all the plastic rod makers claims I say "Actual rod weight is aminor factor in how a rod performs". Now let me qualify it to say "up to a point". As you know I have beenexperimenting with balance points ofvarious rods. It was becoming apparent that the overall weight on some ofthese rods, with the extra largereels and the lead tape counterbalances I put on were starting to weigh alot. But still, if they werebalanced where the balance point was somewhere on the front part of thegrip they did not feel heavy. The oneexception was an old 9 foot, slow (English made) rod that must haveweighed over a pound when it finallybalanced on the grip. That one felt heavy no matter where the balancepoint was. The two biggest knocks against bamboo rods I always hear is that they areslow and they are heavy. We all knowthat bamboo rods can be made to be fast if that's what we want in a taper.The heavy part I think is aperception problem. Most modern reels are lightweight compared to thereels that used to be used, and thatplaces the balance point too far forward. Hence the perception that abamboo rod is heavy. A properly balancedrod feels light when casting, even if the actual weight is heavy comparedto plastic rods.Darryl from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri May 26 10:15:24 2000 e4QFFO105528 Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn I think he meant to say Guppy :-) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn Well, there was a lot happening, I *could* have mistaken it for a puppybutnow I look again, yep, it's a fish :-) At 10:59 AM 5/26/00 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:Doesn't look much like a puppy either, Tony. I knew you had some awfully interesting animals in your area, but justnot puppies that look like this. Tony Young wrote: Oh yeah? Check this out. It's not a Salmon so it may not count butthesepuppies are great fun to catch http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/sampson1.jpg At 03:52 PM 5/26/00 +0200, you wrote:If you're interested in hooking into freight trains, take a look atthis: http://www.flyshop.com/centers/midwest/09-99carp/ Jon Beckton nobler wrote: Good grief ! Talk about hooking into a freight train ! Woof ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Brian Sturrock" Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:55 AMSubject: last of the Salmon porn The danes have replied with some pics taken in Swedenhttp://www.rekordfiske.se/ragge2000.jpgNice looking pool too !!!Cheers Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 26 10:39:06 2000 e4QFd5106477 Subject: RE: Rod Handling I agree that aheavy reel will offset a tip heavy rod but too heavy of a reel can have an adverse effect also in that it can thro off your timing on long casts and it can get real tiring on a salmon river when you are casting big rod big reel. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri May 26 10:48:30 2000 e4QFmT106893 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: neat tools Just got my latest copy of Lee Valley cat. (MMMMMMM!!). There acouple of neat things in there and we can never have enough tools right? There is a cool little brass Veritas blade bevel gauge that measuresin 5 degree increments from 15 to 45 degrees.There is that high friction guard tape. It is like gauze impregnatedwith latex and only sticks to itself. You wrap it on fingers and itgives a grip and protects them.And last but not least there is a cool miniature brass vise andjewelers clamp.I love that place!Shawn from bh887@lafn.org Fri May 26 11:04:01 2000 e4QG3x107531 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) , ,"Douglas P. Easton" Subject: Re: Rod Handling I don't cast well and I type badly! Lee----- Original Message ----- ; ; Subject: Re: Rod Handling Not to be picky, it was Ray Bergman. He wrote a book called "Trout,"beforeSchwiebert (1938)! -Doug At 02:15 AM 5/26/2000 -0700, Lee Freeman wrote:Ray Berman defined a balanced outfit as that combination of rod, reel,andline which performed best for the person using it. Which is what I wastaught when I start3d in the '30's. Ray wrote the definition in the'70's. Lee----- Original Message -----From: ; Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:07 PMSubject: Re: Rod Handling OK we have a miscomseption here on what a balanced outfit is. Nowsomeofyou know I am a casting instructor for the FFF and I also used to ownmyownfly shop( but that is another story). I balanced outfit is an outfit where thelineweight is matched to the rod and not whether or not the rod balancesonyourfinger with the reel on it. Some times you may have a rod that says itthrows a 6 wght etc. but it may balance out with a 5 wght or a 7 wghtinstead. That is your balanced outfit guys. When the rod has thecorrectline on it.Bret from tklein@amgen.com Fri May 26 11:12:35 2000 e4QGCY107872 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Upgrade problems? Is anyone else getting bizarre results from the listserver? I am receiving replies to some messages before I receive the original, andsome messages never seem to come through at all. I know Mike mentioned that the listserver was getting a software upgradeafew days ago and these problems appear to have started around the sametime.It's possible it's on my end though, so I don't want to send notification toMike if others aren't experiencing similar irregularities. ---Timx11512 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri May 26 11:20:34 2000 e4QGKV108211 Sat, 27 May 2000 00:21:32 +0800 Subject: Re: Upgrade problems? Tim,it has been like some kind of time warp out here as well. Tony At 09:11 AM 5/26/00 -0700, Klein, Tim wrote:Is anyone else getting bizarre results from the listserver? I am receiving replies to some messages before I receive the original,andsome messages never seem to come through at all. I know Mike mentioned that the listserver was getting a softwareupgrade afew days ago and these problems appear to have started around the sametime.It's possible it's on my end though, so I don't want to send notification toMike if others aren't experiencing similar irregularities. ---Timx11512 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri May 26 12:34:19 2000 e4QHYH110334 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) Subject: Re: Upgrade problems? We in the IT industry call that a "feature." Tony Young wrote: Tim,it has been like some kind of time warp out here as well. Tony At 09:11 AM 5/26/00 -0700, Klein, Tim wrote:Is anyone else getting bizarre results from the listserver? I am receiving replies to some messages before I receive the original,andsome messages never seem to come through at all. I know Mike mentioned that the listserver was getting a softwareupgrade afew days ago and these problems appear to have started around thesame time.It's possible it's on my end though, so I don't want to send notificationtoMike if others aren't experiencing similar irregularities. ---Timx11512 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri May 26 13:02:11 2000 e4QI2A110973 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: last of the Salmon porn The picture is from Mårrum River, some 4 hours of driving from where Ilive.Which is why I am doing a 12 feet two-handed cane rod.Guess what I will be doing a year from now (too many rods in progressin order to finish the two-hander for this season) regards,Carsten from briansr@point-net.com Fri May 26 13:28:43 2000 e4QISg111542 Fri, 26 May 2000 14:28:39 -0400 Subject: Re: last of the Salmon porn Organization: Hi CarstenLooks like a gorgeous river.Again,which taper are you using ?Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: last of the Salmon porn The picture is from Mårrum River, some 4 hours of driving from where Ilive.Which is why I am doing a 12 feet two-handed cane rod.Guess what I will be doing a year from now (too many rods in progressin order to finish the two-hander for this season) regards,Carsten from briansr@point-net.com Fri May 26 13:32:52 2000 e4QIWq111753 Fri, 26 May 2000 14:32:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Upgrade problems? Organization: I'd like to say that since the upgrade I've found that the posts get on RMlightning fast.That being said perhaps SOME posts do get lost,but it's notas noticeable as in the past when I seemed to have missed some posts thatwere following threads.Mike, I for one am VERY happy with RM since the upgradeCheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Upgrade problems? Is anyone else getting bizarre results from the listserver? I am receiving replies to some messages before I receive the original,andsome messages never seem to come through at all. I know Mike mentioned that the listserver was getting a softwareupgrade afew days ago and these problems appear to have started around the sametime.It's possible it's on my end though, so I don't want to send notificationtoMike if others aren't experiencing similar irregularities. ---Timx11512 from caneman@clnk.com Fri May 26 13:50:32 2000 e4QIoV112353 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 26 May 2000 13:46:11 -0500 Subject: UPDATE: Mystery Quad Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFC719.07B3D8C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFC719.07B3D8C0 UPDATE on the quad rod. Just got the rod in my hands this morning. It was definitely a much =less than perfect re-do by someone. The cane appears to be pretty =consistently colored, leading me to believe that either A. Someone just =did a bad job of restoring it, or B. Someone took the original butt =section of a quad rod and made a mid and two tips. I tend to believe ="A", because the ferrule for the butt section is square, the red (brown =tipped) wraps look original, but the ferrule wraps on the mid and two =tips do not. Has perfection tip tops, but looks like Southbend ferrules =on the tips and mid, left round and oversized, not squared like on the =buttsection. The ferrule on the butt section is definitely squared. I =think I'll build a new male for the mid and a new 2/1 set for the butt =and duplicate them so that they match the butt ferrule, which is painted =black, but appears to be brass, even though the style is that of a Super =Z. The reel seat is definitely a replacement, and you can see the less =than perfect workmanship where someone has removed some of the cork to=accomodate this reel seat. I think I'll add a couple of rings back in, =and put a nice reel seat on it. The butt section is short about 1 inch = from the butt end, but I can scarf on a piece of cane under the reel =seat when I replace it. Node spacing is a spiral spacing rotating to =the right, when looking at the rod with the butt end closest to you. =The grain runoff between nodes on all four sections tells me this was a =machine milled rod, not a hand planed rod.I think this may have at one time been a fine quality quad, even =though the glue lines are a bit less than perfect. (obviously =resourcinol glue, and that makes the tiny flaws look bigger to me) The =varnish has definitely had an "overcoat" on it and has some rough places =and a bad run. Casts a 6 DT very well. I was honestly surprised at how = Now, did that help? Any idea who might have made this thing?Oh, and anyone who wants the numbers from this thing, let me know =and I'll mike it after I strip it, cause it is definitely going to get a =good refinish when it gets the reel seat and ferrules, so I'll have it =down to bare cane before long. TIA,Bob-----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Who Made It??? OK List, Who is the quad rod expert on the list? I just =aquired a quad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no =makers name, but does have "Featherweight" inked on the butt section. =Look at these pictures of it and see if maybe one of our list quad =rodders made it or if someone knows who did. I know absolutely nothing =about the quads so any help is appreciated. Pics are at =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htm Actually, kinda hope it's ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFC719.07B3D8C0 UPDATE on the quad =rod. be pretty consistently colored, leading me to believe that either = Someone just did a bad job of restoring it, or B. Someone took the = "A", because the ferrule for the butt section is square, the = (brown tipped) wraps look original, but the ferrule wraps on the mid and = the tips and mid, left round and oversized, not squared like on the butt = think I'll build a new male for the mid and a new 2/1 set for the butt = duplicate them so that they match the butt ferrule, which is painted = workmanship where someone has removed some of the cork to accomodate= spacing is a spiral spacing rotating to the right, when looking at the = sections tells me this was a machine milled rod, not a hand planed =rod. = at one time been a fine quality quad, even though the glue lines are a = than perfect. (obviously resourcinol glue, and that makes the tiny flaws = bigger to me) The varnish has definitely had an "overcoat" on = honestly surprised at how well it cast. Loads up nice short and long, = Now, = the = definitely going to get a good refinish when it gets the reel seat and = so I'll have it down to bare cane before long. TIA,Bob -----Original = Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Who It???Are the ferrules squared? I can't see from= I just aquired a quad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No = number, no makers name, but does have "Featherweight" = one of our list quad rodders made it or if someone knows who = Actually, kinda hope it's by one of our list = ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFC719.07B3D8C0-- from mark_lang@tnb.com Fri May 26 14:04:35 2000 e4QJ4Y112924 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:04:27 -0500 Subject: unsubscribe from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri May 26 14:05:02 2000 e4QJ51112999 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: UPDATE: Mystery Quad Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC70A.738EC500"Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC70A.738EC500 Sounds like an Gene Edwards Quad with a LOT of tweaking... Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 11:48 AM Subject: UPDATE: Mystery Quad Rod UPDATE on the quad rod. Just got the rod in my hands this morning. It was definitely a much lessthan perfect re-do by someone. The cane appears to be pretty consistentlycolored, leading me to believe that either A. Someone just did a bad job ofrestoring it, or B. Someone took the original butt section of a quad rod andmade a mid and two tips. I tend to believe "A", because the ferrule forthe butt section is square, the red (brown tipped) wraps look original, butthe ferrule wraps on the mid and two tips do not. Has perfection tip tops,but looks like Southbend ferrules on the tips and mid, left round andoversized, not squared like on the butt section. The ferrule on the buttsection is definitely squared. I think I'll build a new male for the midand a new 2/1 set for the butt and duplicate them so that they match thebutt ferrule, which is painted black, but appears to be brass, even thoughthe style is that of a Super Z. The reel seat is definitely a replacement,and you can see the less than perfect workmanship where someone hasremovedsome of the cork to accomodate this reel seat. I think I'll add a couple ofrings back in, and put a nice reel seat on it. The butt section is shortabout 1 inch from the butt end, but I can scarf on a piece of cane under thereel seat when I replace it. Node spacing is a spiral spacing rotating tothe right, when looking at the rod with the butt end closest to you. Thegrain runoff between nodes on all four sections tells me this was amachinemilled rod, not a hand planed rod.I think this may have at one time been a fine quality quad, eventhough the glue lines are a bit less than perfect. (obviously resourcinolglue, and that makes the tiny flaws look bigger to me) The varnish hasdefinitely had an "overcoat" on it and has some rough places and a bad run.Casts a 6 DT very well. I was honestly surprised at how well it cast.Loadsup nice short and long, and has a lot of power...Now, did that help? Any idea who might have made this thing?Oh, and anyone who wants the numbers from this thing, let me knowandI'll mike it after I strip it, cause it is definitely going to get a goodrefinish when it gets the reel seat and ferrules, so I'll have it down tobare cane before long. TIA,Bob-----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Who Made It??? Are the ferrules squared? I can't see from the picture.JohnBob Nunley wrote: OK List, Who is the quad rod expert on the list? I just aquired aquad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makers name,butdoes have "Featherweight" inked on the butt section. Look at thesepicturesof it and see if maybe one of our list quad rodders made it or if someoneknows who did. I know absolutely nothing about the quads so any help isappreciated. Pics are at http://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htmActually, kinda hope it's by one of our list members... Thanks inadvance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC70A.738EC500 like an Gene Edwards Quad with a LOT of tweaking... Darrellwww.vfish.net Rod = List ServeSubject: UPDATE: Mystery Quad =Rod rod. to be pretty consistently colored, leading me to believe that either = Someone just did a bad job of restoring it, or B. Someone took the = believe "A", because the ferrule for the butt section is square, the = (brown tipped) wraps look original, but the ferrule wraps on the mid = on the tips and mid, left round and oversized, not squared like on the = think I'll build a new male for the mid and a new 2/1 set for the butt = duplicate them so that they match the butt ferrule, which is painted = but appears to be brass, even though the style is that of a Super = reel seat is definitely a replacement, and you can see the less than = workmanship where someone has removed some of the cork toaccomodate = nodes on all four sections tells me this was a machine milled rod, not = think = at one time been a fine quality quad, even though the glue lines are a = less than perfect. (obviously resourcinol glue, and that makes the = look bigger to me) The varnish has definitely had an "overcoat" on it = honestly surprised at how well it cast. Loads up nice short and long, = Now, = = from this thing, let me know and I'll mike it after I strip it, cause = definitely going to get a good refinish when it gets the reel seat and = ferrules, so I'll have it down to bare cane before =long. TIA,Bob -----Original = Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Who It???Are the ferrules squared? I can't see from= just aquired a quad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial = absolutely nothing about the quads so any help is = are at http://members.clnk.= Actually, kinda hope it's by one of our list = = ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC70A.738EC500-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri May 26 14:05:02 2000 e4QJ51113003 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Group Cork order - Hock Blades anyone? Importance: Normal Picking up cork today, will ship either tommorrow or Tuesday. Hopefully everyone will be happy with the quality. Okay, anybody interested in Hock plane blades at a discount? Pleasecontactme offlist. Darrellwww.vfish.net from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 26 17:30:09 2000 e4QMU8125890 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 26 May 2000 17:17:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Upgrade problems? I've had a couple of weird drop down warnings about security, that Icouldn't relate to any message. I have no idea what brought these on, andwhen I clicked yes, to activate a down load, nothing happened ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Upgrade problems? Is anyone else getting bizarre results from the listserver? I am receiving replies to some messages before I receive the original,andsome messages never seem to come through at all. I know Mike mentioned that the listserver was getting a softwareupgrade afew days ago and these problems appear to have started around the sametime.It's possible it's on my end though, so I don't want to send notificationtoMike if others aren't experiencing similar irregularities. ---Timx11512 from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri May 26 17:51:09 2000 e4QMp8126334 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Fri, 26 May 2000 23:51:07 +0100 Subject: Re: Upgrade problems? Me too ??? nobler wrote: I've had a couple of weird drop down warnings about security, that Icouldn't relate to any message. I have no idea what brought these on, andwhen I clicked yes, to activate a down load, nothing happened ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Klein, Tim" Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 11:11 AMSubject: Upgrade problems? Is anyone else getting bizarre results from the listserver? I am receiving replies to some messages before I receive the original,andsome messages never seem to come through at all. I know Mike mentioned that the listserver was getting a softwareupgrade afew days ago and these problems appear to have started around thesametime.It's possible it's on my end though, so I don't want to send notificationtoMike if others aren't experiencing similar irregularities. ---Timx11512 from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri May 26 19:04:01 2000 e4R040127362 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: List prob and trip to PA Since the list seems to be acting up and I have been missing messagesand getting half of others I figured I'd repost my question about flyfishing in Pennsylvania as I only got one response and I know lots ofguys were down there for Boiling Springs.I am going to Reading, Pennsylvania June 2,3,4,5 and I will likelyhave a bit of time to fish. I was considering the Letort but apparentlyit is a fair drive. The Quitti looks good and I heard I must try theriver right in REading, cant think of the name right now.I would love to hear any suggestions/patterns. I want to try out myPerfectionist on some of those famous PA brown trout.Shawn from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri May 26 19:12:21 2000 e4R0CK127550 17:29:07 PDT Subject: RE: UPDATE: Mystery Quad Rod The little Edwards Quadrate I'm looking at has a silver ferrule that issquared beginning about half way downthrough the base. Also the front half of the cork grip is squared with asquare black plastic winding check atthe nose. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Subject: RE: UPDATE: Mystery Quad Rod Sounds like an Gene Edwards Quad with a LOT of tweaking... Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 11:48 AM Subject: UPDATE: Mystery Quad Rod UPDATE on the quad rod. Just got the rod in my hands this morning. It was definitely a much lessthan perfect re-do by someone. The cane appears to be pretty consistentlycolored, leading me to believe that either A. Someone just did a bad job ofrestoring it, or B. Someone took the original butt section of a quad rod andmade a mid and two tips. I tend to believe "A", because the ferrule forthe butt section is square, the red (brown tipped) wraps look original, butthe ferrule wraps on the mid and two tips do not. Has perfection tip tops,but looks like Southbend ferrules on the tips and mid, left round andoversized, not squared like on the butt section. The ferrule on the buttsection is definitely squared. I think I'll build a new male for the midand a new 2/1 set for the butt and duplicate them so that they match thebutt ferrule, which is painted black, but appears to be brass, even thoughthe style is that of a Super Z. The reel seat is definitely a replacement,and you can see the less than perfect workmanship where someone hasremovedsome of the cork to accomodate this reel seat. I think I'll add a couple ofrings back in, and put a nice reel seat on it. The butt section is shortabout 1 inch from the butt end, but I can scarf on a piece of cane under thereel seat when I replace it. Node spacing is a spiral spacing rotating tothe right, when looking at the rod with the butt end closest to you. Thegrain runoff between nodes on all four sections tells me this was amachinemilled rod, not a hand planed rod.I think this may have at one time been a fine quality quad, eventhough the glue lines are a bit less than perfect. (obviously resourcinolglue, and that makes the tiny flaws look bigger to me) The varnish hasdefinitely had an "overcoat" on it and has some rough places and a bad run.Casts a 6 DT very well. I was honestly surprised at how well it cast.Loadsup nice short and long, and has a lot of power...Now, did that help? Any idea who might have made this thing?Oh, and anyone who wants the numbers from this thing, let me knowandI'll mike it after I strip it, cause it is definitely going to get a goodrefinish when it gets the reel seat and ferrules, so I'll have it down tobare cane before long. TIA,Bob-----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Who Made It??? Are the ferrules squared? I can't see from the picture.JohnBob Nunley wrote: OK List, Who is the quad rod expert on the list? I just aquired aquad that is a flamed rod, 3/2 8'10", No serial number, no makers name,butdoes have "Featherweight" inked on the butt section. Look at thesepicturesof it and see if maybe one of our list quad rodders made it or if someoneknows who did. I know absolutely nothing about the quads so any help isappreciated. Pics are at http://members.clnk.com/caneman/quadrod.htmActually, kinda hope it's by one of our list members... Thanks inadvance,Bob from timklein@uswest.net Fri May 26 20:44:37 2000 e4R1ib128758 (63.225.127.127) Subject: Re: Rod Weight (Addendum to Rod Handling) I agree 100%. I've always tended to use larger/older reels to help balance the additionalweight of bamboo. I have a couple of Ross reels from my plastic days, andthey just don't work well on bamboo. The balance issue is why I prefer to use downlocking or slide bandreelseatson my rods. It never made much of a difference on plastic, but moving thereel weight farther down is definitely noticeable on bamboo. I also think slower rods tend to feel heavier than quicker rods whencasting. A slower rod requires more arm, whereas a quicker rod allows youtoget some of your motion from the wrist. Graphite users can get away witheven more wrist action than bamboo users. I believe that this is moreimportant to how heavy bamboo feels initially than the actual weight oftherod. (As an aside, I think that this same "graphite" wrist action is what makesmany people think that they "just can't cast bamboo") ---Tim "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could bejust as proud for half the money"- Arthur Godfrey ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod Weight (Addendum to Rod Handling) Against all the plastic rod makers claims I say "Actual rod weight is aminor factor in how a rod performs". Now let me qualify it to say "up to a point". As you know I have beenexperimenting with balance points of various rods. It was becomingapparentthat the overall weight on some of these rods, with the extra large reelsand the lead tape counterbalances I put on were starting to weigh a lot.Butstill, if they were balanced where the balance point was somewhere onthefront part of the grip they did not feel heavy. The one exception was an old9 foot, slow (English made) rod that must have weighed over a pound whenitfinally balanced on the grip. That one felt heavy no matter where thebalance point was. The two biggest knocks against bamboo rods I always hear is that theyareslow and they are heavy. We all know that bamboo rods can be made to befastif that's what we want in a taper. The heavy part I think is a perceptionproblem. Most modern reels are lightweight compared to the reels thatusedto be used, and that places the balance point too far forward. Hence theperception that a bamboo rod is heavy. A properly balanced rod feels lightwhen casting, even if the actual weight is heavy compared to plastic rods.Darryl from anglport@con2.com Fri May 26 21:00:37 2000 e4R20a129032 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB81C7A045C; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:57:21 -0400 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,Don't think the server's acting up...I went al the way back to this torespond.Anyone who's still interested in the French Polish concept shouldtake alook at: http://www.shavings.net/FRENCH.HTM and see if they think it's for them. I just found it noodling around inRec. Woodworking in the Newsgroups. That site (just the shavings.nethomepage) also has access to the Scary Sharp method of sharpening planebladesif anyone wants to give a cheap-to-try-out and quite effective method awhirl.Lots of other interesting woodworking stuff as well.Art At 10:18 PM 05/10/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I sure hopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for different stagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Olive oil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and if youdoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all of theshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly finding thatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it, buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all those antiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 26 21:01:47 2000 e4R21k129138 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AD99635B00DA; Fri, 26 May 2000 22:06:17 -0400 sniderja@email.uc.edu, DNHayashida@aol.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod Handling Doug,You want picky... I think it was in Bergman's "Fishing With Fly, Plug, andBait" that he includes a letter from a friend who gives a definition of a"balanced outfit".Best regards,Reed "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Not to be picky, it was Ray Bergman. He wrote a book called "Trout,"beforeSchwiebert (1938)! -Doug At 02:15 AM 5/26/2000 -0700, Lee Freeman wrote:Ray Berman defined a balanced outfit as that combination of rod, reel,andline which performed best for the person using it. Which is what I wastaught when I start3d in the '30's. Ray wrote the definition in the '70's. Lee from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 26 21:15:13 2000 e4R2FC129425 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 26 May 2000 21:01:58 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish I haven't had a message not come through either. I think some have justbeenpretty cryptic. After due consideration, I think I'll just stay with varnish. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,Don't think the server's acting up...I went al the way back to this torespond.Anyone who's still interested in the French Polish concept should take alook at: http://www.shavings.net/FRENCH.HTM and see if they think it's for them. I just found it noodling around inRec. Woodworking in the Newsgroups. That site (just the shavings.nethomepage) also has access to the Scary Sharp method of sharpening planebladesif anyone wants to give a cheap-to-try-out and quite effective method awhirl.Lots of other interesting woodworking stuff as well.Art At 10:18 PM 05/10/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:It's always worth looking at the different ways to do things. The onlyshellac I ever remember was some gooey stuff, that I had a hard timegettingoff. I'll have to look into this medium one day, just to see it. I surehopethey don't eliminate the old spar varnish tho', or change it as they seemtobe doing to the urethanes. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: French polish... was Wrapping over varnish George,French polishing is a method of applying shellac. You cut flakedshellac with denatured alcohol, different strengths for differentstagesofthe finishing. It is applied with a pad slightly dampened with Oliveoil.These finishes, if properly applied, are absolutely beautiful, and ifyoudoit right, it is very durable. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: nobler Port Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish I take it "French Polish", is some form of shellac ? Most, or all oftheshellac I've seen didn't seem all that durable. I'm quickly findingthatthere is a type or types I'm unfamiliar with ! I do recall PHY saying he used boiled linseed oil. I've not used it,buthadthe feeling it dries so that it can be worked. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re:Wrapping over varnish Shellac, like lacquer, can look good when new, but it has a shortlife. GMA George,I think the fellows who put the "French polish" on all thoseantiquesinthe Louvre and the castles of England might be interested to hearthat!*G*Art from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri May 26 21:22:32 2000 e4R2MR129667 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 26 May 2000 21:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Weight (Addendum to Rod Handling) Those that have never worked a slow action or parabolic rod, simplyhaven'tpracticed until their timing is such that they wait for the action and theline to coordinate. Until you learn to wait for the "tug" of the line in theback cast, or at least get the timing of it, cane will never feel right foryou ! On this balancing the reel and rod thing: No matter how statically nice itfeels, if the line doesn't load the action properly, it will feel like anabomination ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod Weight (Addendum to Rod Handling) I agree 100%. I've always tended to use larger/older reels to help balance theadditionalweight of bamboo. I have a couple of Ross reels from my plastic days,andthey just don't work well on bamboo. The balance issue is why I prefer to use downlocking or slide bandreelseatson my rods. It never made much of a difference on plastic, but moving thereel weight farther down is definitely noticeable on bamboo. I also think slower rods tend to feel heavier than quicker rods whencasting. A slower rod requires more arm, whereas a quicker rod allowsyoutoget some of your motion from the wrist. Graphite users can get awaywitheven more wrist action than bamboo users. I believe that this is moreimportant to how heavy bamboo feels initially than the actual weight oftherod. (As an aside, I think that this same "graphite" wrist action is whatmakesmany people think that they "just can't cast bamboo") ---Tim "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I couldbejust as proud for half the money"- Arthur Godfrey ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:12 AMSubject: Rod Weight (Addendum to Rod Handling) Against all the plastic rod makers claims I say "Actual rod weight is aminor factor in how a rod performs". Now let me qualify it to say "up to a point". As you know I have beenexperimenting with balance points of various rods. It was becomingapparentthat the overall weight on some of these rods, with the extra large reelsand the lead tape counterbalances I put on were starting to weigh a lot.Butstill, if they were balanced where the balance point was somewhere onthefront part of the grip they did not feel heavy. The one exception was anold9 foot, slow (English made) rod that must have weighed over a poundwhenitfinally balanced on the grip. That one felt heavy no matter where thebalance point was. The two biggest knocks against bamboo rods I always hear is that theyareslow and they are heavy. We all know that bamboo rods can be made to befastif that's what we want in a taper. The heavy part I think is a perceptionproblem. Most modern reels are lightweight compared to the reels thatusedto be used, and that places the balance point too far forward. Hence theperception that a bamboo rod is heavy. A properly balanced rod feelslightwhen casting, even if the actual weight is heavy compared to plasticrods.Darryl from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri May 26 22:22:10 2000 e4R3M8100327 Subject: Tony's "Puppy" Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFC7DD.E597E4A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFC7DD.E597E4A0 So, Tony, this is the one that barks next door, I assume.Seriously, what IS it? On my screen it comes up as a pretty contrasty =shot, and I can't tell what species it is - just that it's BIG!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFC7DD.E597E4A0 So, Tony, this is the one that barks = assume.Seriously, what IS it? On my screen it= a pretty contrasty shot, and I can't tell what species it is - just that = BIG!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFC7DD.E597E4A0-- from handlen@megalink.net Fri May 26 23:57:04 2000 e4R4v3101545 Subject: garrison binder boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC778.A9D86F80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC778.A9D86F80 does anyone have any plans for a basic garrison binder they could mail =me???? ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC778.A9D86F80 does anyone have any plans for a basic= binder they could mail me???? ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC778.A9D86F80-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat May 27 03:39:07 2000 e4R8d6103700 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: last of the Salmon porn Friends who fishes the Mårrum consistently claims it is aexiting and difficult river to fish. My rod is a norwegian taper: Hoergaards HC - what thecompany described as a fast dryfly rod. Taper has been posted to this list by Danny Twang ofNorway, who in fact was able to supply me with a buttand middle piece made by Hoergaard. It only neededthe tip done. Will report to the list once this rod isfinished. Cane-work is finished - am starting turning ferrules.Reel seat and ring set will be gold coloured, tyingsprobably Gudebrods Silk in either chestnut or wine-red. Reel will be a Hardy Viscount Mk III ordered from Hardysin London Yesterday. The rod is supposed to be # 8/9 so a spey line is the ideabut this will have to be sorted out along the way. Still working on a PHY Perfectionist, but it seems that everytime one is finished, somebody buys it off my hands. Onefaboulus rod (George Maurer book taper) I have not yethad a client who did not love this taper - probably why Idont have one for myself. Well - THIS time it is goingto be different. Just lack one butt piece and TWO blankswill be finished (sold one all-ready) Will I have my ownnow? Time will show. regards,Carsten from tklein@amgen.com Sat May 27 04:30:29 2000 e4R9US104282 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Titebond website family of glue products: http://www.titebond.com Specifications for the products are available including the extended setTitebond II (look under Cabinet shop glues for this one) ---Timx11512 from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 27 08:55:55 2000 e4RDts107725 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 27 May 2000 08:57:00 -0500 Subject: Re: garrison binder McClane's Encyclopedia has a good general layout of it, but I have neverseen dimensioned drawings for it. I'd sure like to see how Bellinger'sbinder works, as it's touted as being a basic improvement. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: garrison binder does anyone have any plans for a basic garrison binder they could mailme???? from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat May 27 09:04:02 2000 e4RE41107920 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: garrison binder I think Wayne's book has a drawing of the binder. Brian from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 27 09:10:44 2000 e4REAh108144 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 27 May 2000 09:11:54 -0500 Subject: Re: garrison binder Gosh I hope it comes out soon ! I've had it and the video on order sinceJan. ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: garrison binder I think Wayne's book has a drawing of the binder. Brian from leroyt@involved.com Sat May 27 09:12:55 2000 e4RECs108277 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 27 May 2000 07:12:52 -0700 Subject: RE: garrison binder boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC7AB.34523100" Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC7AB.34523100 There is a drawing in the Garrison's book, Chris Bogart has written anarticle or two on how to tune a Garrison type binder located on theRodmakers site. Only difference between the Garrison and the Bellinger isthe continuous belt.Leroy.........-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu HandlenSent: Friday, May 26, 2000 10:13 PM Subject: garrison binder does anyone have any plans for a basic garrison binder they could mailme???? ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC7AB.34523100 is a drawing in the Garrison's book, Chris Bogart has written an article = on how to tune a Garrison type binder located on the Rodmakers site. = continuous = Leroy......... = HandlenSent: Friday, May 26, 2000 10:13 binderdoes anyone have any plans for a = binder they could mailme???? ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC7AB.34523100-- from bob@downandacross.com Sat May 27 19:15:32 2000 e4S0FV114431 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: test, please delete Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Sat May 27 20:07:21 2000 e4S17K114943 Subject: Wayne Cattanach's Book Hey Folks - does anyone know when the revised edition of WayneCattanach'sbook will be out? This is the summer I'm "taking the leap" into rodmakingand I want to pick up a copy. Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat May 27 20:30:21 2000 e4S1UL115295 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 27 May 2000 20:31:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I'm told it's due out in June, finally ! I've been waiting since Jan. ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wayne Cattanach's Book Hey Folks - does anyone know when the revised edition of WayneCattanach'sbook will be out? This is the summer I'm "taking the leap" intorodmakingand I want to pick up a copy. Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from trippma@mindspring.com Sat May 27 22:55:14 2000 e4S3tE116962 Subject: First rod, First fish. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC81D.152646A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC81D.152646A0 Last week I finally got the chance to fish the first rod that I made, a =PY Perfectionist taper. Wanting water fitting for such a special event, =I headed to one of my favorite places on earth -- Yamsi Ranch, at the = A beautiful spring creek with HUGE wild rainbows and brook trout. =The day was warm and windy, with a few, scattered, rising trout. The =rod performed it's task well and on the fourth cast, brought a wondrous =16" rainbow to hand. The day was starting of well! I hooked and landed =over twelve fish, including a 25", 5lb, football shaped rainbow, that =hit a size 16 gray comparadun, like a largemouth bass hitting a poppin' =frog! He came out from a cutbank like a freight train! The rod handled =him as well as any plastic rod I've ever fished, and with much more =backbone than I expected.One of the best parts of the trip came at the end, when John Hyde, =one of the ranch owners asked if he could cast my rod. John is an FFF =certified casting instructor, and to see him throwing 80' of fly line on =a rod I built, was total bliss. (I REALLY have to work on my casting!) =John said they get a lot of people fishing bamboo at the ranch, and =mostly, he hasn't liked the ones he's cast. But he really liked the =rod, and was asking all sorts of questions about tapers, construction, =etc. Anyway, just wanted to share that, and give a big thanks to EVERYONE on =the list, for all the help, advice, and encouragement given to all us =newbies out here. Thanks again, Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC81D.152646A0 Last week I finally got the chance to = such a special event, I headed to one of my favorite places on earth -- = = football shaped rainbow, that hit a size 16 gray comparadun, like a = and with much more backbone than I expected. trip came at the end, when John Hyde, one of the ranch owners asked if = people fishing bamboo at the ranch, and mostly, he hasn't liked the ones = about tapers, construction, etc. Anyway, just wanted to share that,and = thanks to EVERYONE on the list, for all the help, advice, and = given to all us newbies out here. Thanks again, Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFC81D.152646A0-- from bh887@lafn.org Sat May 27 23:02:01 2000 e4S420117140 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book June is okay with me. Does anyone know how to get on the list? Or isthereone? Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I'm told it's due out in June, finally ! I've been waiting since Jan. ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Alec Stansell" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 8:12 PMSubject: Wayne Cattanach's Book Hey Folks - does anyone know when the revised edition of WayneCattanach'sbook will be out? This is the summer I'm "taking the leap" intorodmakingand I want to pick up a copy. Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from irish-george@pacbell.net Sun May 28 00:02:04 2000 e4S524118020 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu You can get on the list (so to speak) by ordering it from Amazon.com (orelsewhere). George ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book June is okay with me. Does anyone know how to get on the list? Or isthereone? Lee----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 6:33 PMSubject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I'm told it's due out in June, finally ! I've been waiting since Jan. ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Alec Stansell" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 8:12 PMSubject: Wayne Cattanach's Book Hey Folks - does anyone know when the revised edition of WayneCattanach'sbook will be out? This is the summer I'm "taking the leap" intorodmakingand I want to pick up a copy. Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from hiltonl@benzie.com Sun May 28 02:04:39 2000 e4S74c119386 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A562116E014A; Sun, 28 May 2000 03:06:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's book Yep, there it is..."revised, revised, hardback. June 2000" shipping in3-5 weeks courtesy of several well known cyberbooksellers. Or maybedebuting at Grayrock this year? Would the Balding Buddha of Bamboocare to comment....that is, beyond "Be the Bamboo". Larry from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun May 28 02:49:24 2000 e4S7nL119890 Subject: Mark A Tripp Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFC8CC.5D1983A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFC8CC.5D1983A0 A small piece of poetry - As years march down my life, and out,One thing I know, without a doubt -That anyone with half a brainWould swap his plastic for a cane! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFC8CC.5D1983A0 A small piece of poetry - As years march down my life, and =out, -That anyone with half a =brainWould swap his plastic for a =cane! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFC8CC.5D1983A0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 28 06:15:21 2000 e4SBFK121596 Sun, 28 May 2000 08:15:15 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: First rod, First fish. boundary="------------14CF3973DDFF2B353567937B" --------------14CF3973DDFF2B353567937B Mark,congratulations! It's one of the best feelings on earth isn'tit! The Perfectionist has continuously surprised me. It seemed a littleflimsy but a 15"brookie quickly dispensed that myth, it casts nice inclose yet it will cast a long line like no one's business, it roll castsa Wulff TT line farther than I could cast some of my old rods(seriously) . It is a very nice all round rod.I have a special little place where I keep the really goodspecial moments like my wedding day, both of my daughters births, when Ifinally finished high school at 32 years old...with honors, and firstrod/ first rod, first fish is in amongst them. I have found lots of verysatisfying moments like those since I first started this craft and everyday seems to find another one or two. Hearing other people tell theirstory only refreshes that memory.BTW I still fish the first rod I built (partially because it's theonly one I've been able to keep), although I look at it and see thesmall flaws inherent with a beginners rod it still brings a smile to myface every time I cast and catch fish on it!Welcome to the addiction!,Yourfriend and fellow addict, Shawn "Mark A. Tripp" wrote: Last week I finally got the chance to fish the first rod that I made,a PY Perfectionist taper. Wanting water fitting for such a specialevent, I headed to one of my favorite places on earth -- Yamsi Ranch,at the headwaters of the Williamson River in SE Oregon. A beautifulspring creek with HUGE wild rainbows and brook trout. The day waswarm and windy, with a few, scattered, rising trout. The rodperformed it's task well and on the fourth cast, brought a wondrous16" rainbow to hand. The day was starting of well! I hooked andlanded over twelve fish, including a 25", 5lb, football shapedrainbow, that hit a size 16 gray comparadun, like a largemouth basshitting a poppin' frog! He came out from a cutbank like a freighttrain! The rod handled him as well as any plastic rod I've everfished, and with much more backbone than I expected. One of thebest parts of the trip came at the end, when John Hyde, one of theranch owners asked if he could cast my rod. John is an FFF certifiedcasting instructor, and to see him throwing 80' of fly line on a rod Ibuilt, was total bliss. (I REALLY have to work on my casting!) Johnsaid they get a lot of people fishing bamboo at the ranch, and mostly,he hasn't liked the ones he's cast. But he really liked the rod, andwas asking all sorts of questions about tapers, construction,etc. Anyway, just wanted to share that, and give a big thanks toEVERYONE on the list, for all the help, advice, and encouragementgiven to all us newbies out here. Thanks again, Mark --------------14CF3973DDFF2B353567937B Mark, congratulations!It's one of the best feelings on earth isn't it! The Perfectionist hascontinuously surprised me. It seemed a little flimsy but a 15"brookiequicklydispensed that myth, it casts nice in close yet it will cast a long linelike no one's business, it roll casts a Wulff TT line farther than I couldcast some of my old rods( seriously) . It is a very nice all round rod. littleplace where I keep the really good special moments like my wedding day,both of my daughters births, when I finally finished high school at 32years old...with honors, and first rod/ first rod, first fish is in amongstthem. I have found lots of very satisfying moments like those since I firststarted this craft and every day seems to find another one or two. Hearingother people tell their story only refreshes that memory. (partiallybecause it's the only one I've been able to keep), although I look at itand see the small flaws inherent with a beginners rod it still brings asmile to my face every time I cast and catch fish on it! Welcome to the addiction!, Your friend and fellow addict, Shawn "Mark A. Tripp" wrote: Lastweek I finally got the chance to fish the first rod that I made, a PYPerfectionisttaper. Wanting water fitting for such a special event, I headed to oneof my favorite places on earth -- Yamsi Ranch, at the headwaters of the The rod performed it's task well and on the fourth cast, brought awondrous and landed over twelve fish, including a 25", 5lb, football shaped rainbow,that hit a size 16 gray comparadun, like a largemouth bass hitting apoppin' rod handled him as well as any plastic rod I've ever fished, and with much One of the best parts of the trip came at the end, when John Hyde, one certified casting instructor, and to see him throwing 80' of fly line on John said they get a lot of people fishing bamboo at the ranch, and mostly, and was asking all sorts of questions about tapers, construction, just wanted to share that, and give a big thanks to EVERYONE on the list, --------------14CF3973DDFF2B353567937B-- from caneman@clnk.com Sun May 28 06:35:14 2000 e4SBZD121874 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 28 May 2000 06:30:55 -0500 Subject: Taper for Quad Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02AC_01BFC86E.8AE3B5C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02AC_01BFC86E.8AE3B5C0 First, thanks to everyone who helped me in trying to determine what kind=of rod this is. I believe it can be narrowed down pretty much to being =an Edwards Quadrate that someone did a really terrible restoration on. =The rod casts really well and has lots of reserve power that you start = In any case, I have already stripped the megacoats of varnish off =the rod and here are the dimensions on the unvarnished blank. Has a =pretty dramatic swell in the 5 inches just forward of the grip. Graph =it out and the stress curve looks a little funky, but the rod does work =well. a bit heavy, but works nice. Later,Bob Station Tip Mid Butt00 .070 .175 .25305 .084 .192 .27910 .105 .209 .29015 .137 .215 .30920 .155 .234 .32525 .169 .241 .41830 .174 .255 .43835 .186 .262 ------ R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_02AC_01BFC86E.8AE3B5C0 First, thanks to everyone who helped me in trying to determine what= Edwards Quadrate that someone did a really terrible restoration = rod casts really well and has lots of reserve power that you start to = varnish off the rod and here are the dimensions on the unvarnished = Has a pretty dramatic swell in the 5 inches just forward of the = Graph it out and the stress curve looks a little funky, but the rod does = Later,Bob =.253 =.279 =.290 =.309 =.325 =.418 =.438 ------ Bamboo = Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_02AC_01BFC86E.8AE3B5C0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 28 09:06:37 2000 e4SE6b123606 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 28 May 2000 08:52:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book Just call a supplier and put it on order. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book June is okay with me. Does anyone know how to get on the list? Or isthereone? Lee----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 6:33 PMSubject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I'm told it's due out in June, finally ! I've been waiting since Jan. ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Alec Stansell" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 8:12 PMSubject: Wayne Cattanach's Book Hey Folks - does anyone know when the revised edition of WayneCattanach'sbook will be out? This is the summer I'm "taking the leap" intorodmakingand I want to pick up a copy. Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 28 12:40:37 2000 e4SHeY126135 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 28 May 2000 12:41:48 -0500 Subject: Stanley Block planes I now have 4 Stanley Block Planes. Two have the low angle of approx. 12deg.. Two have a blade angle of some 20 deg.. All but one have 1-5/8" wideblades. One of the low angle versions, has only a 1-3/8" wide blade, andthethroat will not accept a1-5/8" blade ! The only I.D. I can find is C 331 on one of the higher angled units. Can anyof you tell me what I have ? I'm assuming the 2 - low angle planes arewhatthe 061/2 Record is modeled after. GMA from stpete@netten.net Sun May 28 13:59:56 2000 e4SIxu127027 Sun, 28 May 2000 13:54:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Taper for Quad Rod Bob, Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have been trying to collect quadtapers for that day that I will foray into that rodmaking territory.It's only a matter of time. Rick C. Bob Nunley wrote: First, thanks to everyone who helped me in trying to determine whatkind of rod this is. I believe it can be narrowed down pretty much tobeing an Edwards Quadrate that someone did a really terriblerestoration on. The rod casts really well and has lots of reservepower that you start to feel with 40 or so feet of line in the air.In any case, I have already stripped the megacoats of varnish off therod and here are the dimensions on the unvarnished blank. Has apretty dramatic swell in the 5 inches just forward of the grip. Graphit out and the stress curve looks a little funky, but the rod doeswork well. a bit heavy, but works nice. Later,Bob StationTip Mid Butt00 .070 .175.25305 .084 .192 .27910 .105.209 .29015 .137 .215 .30920.155 .234 .32525 .169 .241.41830 .174 .255 .43835 .186.262 ------ R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 28 14:20:56 2000 e4SJKu127358 Sun, 28 May 2000 16:20:50 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book Any one out there lucky enough to have the book and the video? I have thevideo, is the book worth getting now or is it the same as the video? Shawn nobler wrote: Just call a supplier and put it on order. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 11:03 PMSubject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book June is okay with me. Does anyone know how to get on the list? Or isthereone? Lee----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 6:33 PMSubject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I'm told it's due out in June, finally ! I've been waiting since Jan. ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Alec Stansell" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 8:12 PMSubject: Wayne Cattanach's Book Hey Folks - does anyone know when the revised edition of WayneCattanach'sbook will be out? This is the summer I'm "taking the leap" intorodmakingand I want to pick up a copy. Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island AntiquarianBooksellersAssociation from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 28 14:24:35 2000 e4SJOZ127501 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: List prob and trip to PA Thanks to all who replied. I am counting the seconds till i get there(if Ican manage to keep this vibrating bucket of bolts Sea King in the air longenough to make it there!);^)Shawn Pineo Shawn Pineo wrote: Since the list seems to be acting up and I have been missing messagesand getting half of others I figured I'd repost my question about flyfishing in Pennsylvania as I only got one response and I know lots ofguys were down there for Boiling Springs.I am going to Reading, Pennsylvania June 2,3,4,5 and I will likelyhave a bit of time to fish. I was considering the Letort but apparentlyit is a fair drive. The Quitti looks good and I heard I must try theriver right in REading, cant think of the name right now.I would love to hear any suggestions/patterns. I want to try out myPerfectionist on some of those famous PA brown trout.Shawn from Canerods@aol.com Sun May 28 15:34:31 2000 e4SKYU128518 Subject: BFR All, Has anyone received the lastest BFR magazine? Their web-site has a newcover shown - I want to send in a renewal etc etc. But after the last big go-around about the magazine I tried to email Markand got a bounced back as undeliverable replies. So I haven't sent in the check. I will do if anyone knows that they are alive and kicking. (even a little bit) Don Burnscanerods@aol.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 28 15:47:25 2000 e4SKlN128748 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 28 May 2000 15:48:35 -0500 Subject: Re: BFR In Dec. I ordered 2 back issues listed as available, sending $17, but neverreceived anything. About 60 days ago, I sent the full subscription price,and still have received zero ! It now appears I have poured good money after bad, and I have resignedmyself to never receiving anything ! Each month brings ever mountingoverhead expense, which shortens any chance of survival. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: BFR All, Has anyone received the lastest BFR magazine? Their web-site has a newcovershown - I want to send in a renewal etc etc. But after the last big go-around about the magazine I tried to email Markandgot a bounced back as undeliverable replies. So I haven't sent in thecheck.I will do if anyone knows that they are alive and kicking. (even a littlebit) Don Burnscanerods@aol.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun May 28 17:57:01 2000 e4SMv0100233 Sun, 28 May 2000 19:56:54 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: BFR Don,that new cover has been there forever. A sickening reminder of asubscription not received. I've finally bailed on BFR and will use the moneyforsomething useful like Jacks book.Shawn Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, Has anyone received the lastest BFR magazine? Their web-site has a newcovershown - I want to send in a renewal etc etc. But after the last big go-around about the magazine I tried to email Markandgot a bounced back as undeliverable replies. So I haven't sent in thecheck.I will do if anyone knows that they are alive and kicking. (even a littlebit) Don Burnscanerods@aol.com from bhoy@inmind.com Sun May 28 18:36:53 2000 e4SNaq100770 altos.inmind.com (8.8.8/SCO5) with Subject: Re: Stanley Block planes The low angle with the 1 3/8" blade is probably a 60 1/2. The one with the 1 5/8" blade could be a 65 if it has an adjustable throat. Stanley made a gazillion block planes, so we'd need more info tocorrrectly and he doesn't identify every variation. Are they all adjustable throat versions? This narrows the field quite a bit. If you can give a detailed description, it may even be possible to roughly determine the age. bill hoy Are these vintage planes?At 12:43 PM 5/28/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I now have 4 Stanley Block Planes. Two have the low angle of approx. 12deg.. Two have a blade angle of some 20 deg.. All but one have 1-5/8"wideblades. One of the low angle versions, has only a 1-3/8" wide blade, andthethroat will not accept a1-5/8" blade ! The only I.D. I can find is C 331 on one of the higher angled units. Can anyof you tell me what I have ? I'm assuming the 2 - low angle planes arewhatthe 061/2 Record is modeled after. GMA from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun May 28 18:48:07 2000 e4SNm6101044 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A15E454300BE; Sun, 28 May 2000 19:53:02 -0400 Subject: More on silk lines All,Several people have asked me questions about purchasing used silklines, and general car of silk lines. I updated an article on my websiteto offer my perspective on these issues.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun May 28 19:27:00 2000 e4T0Qx101628 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 28 May 2000 19:27:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanley Block planes Well, one of the low angle Stanley's is just like a Record 061/2, and theonly real difference in the other, is the narrower 13/8" blade. They allhave the threaded stud, that raises and lowers the blade via the knurledwheel. I have a description of some of these variations, from a web site,and will have to study it more in order to give exact details. It sure would have made it simple, if they had just stamped numbers onthem! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Block planes The low angle with the 1 3/8" blade is probably a 60 1/2. The one withthe1 5/8" blade could be a 65 if it has an adjustable throat. Stanley made a gazillion block planes, so we'd need more info tocorrrectly thickand he doesn't identify every variation. Are they all adjustable throat versions? This narrows the field quite abit. If you can give a detailed description, it may even be possible toroughly determine the age. bill hoy Are these vintage planes?At 12:43 PM 5/28/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I now have 4 Stanley Block Planes. Two have the low angle of approx. 12deg.. Two have a blade angle of some 20 deg.. All but one have 1-5/8"wideblades. One of the low angle versions, has only a 1-3/8" wide blade, andthethroat will not accept a1-5/8" blade ! The only I.D. I can find is C 331 on one of the higher angled units. Cananyof you tell me what I have ? I'm assuming the 2 - low angle planes arewhatthe 061/2 Record is modeled after. GMA from cattanac@wmis.net Sun May 28 22:40:09 2000 e4T3e8103947 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP idXAA21457 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:40:07 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book An update - the latest word from Lyons Press is that the printing will bedone in 2 weeks - The software - HexRod is no longer included with thebookso it is downloadable from my website www.wcattanachrodco.com - itnow aVisual Basic version - but needs a bit of polish yet - in june I intendgetting back to it from saweiss@flash.net Sun May 28 23:22:30 2000 e4T4MT104479 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I have both, but if I could only have one, I'd take the book. It has goodreferences, lots of tapers, and all the information that the video has.Steve Any one out there lucky enough to have the book and the video? I have thevideo, is the book worth getting now or is it the same as the video? Shawn nobler wrote: Just call a supplier and put it on order. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 11:03 PMSubject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book June is okay with me. Does anyone know how to get on the list? Or isthereone? Lee----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 6:33 PMSubject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I'm told it's due out in June, finally ! I've been waiting sinceJan. ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Alec Stansell" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 8:12 PMSubject: Wayne Cattanach's Book Hey Folks - does anyone know when the revised edition of WayneCattanach'sbook will be out? This is the summer I'm "taking the leap" intorodmakingand I want to pick up a copy. Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island AntiquarianBooksellersAssociation from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Sun May 28 23:28:11 2000 e4T4SA104626 Subject: Re: First rod, First fish. Mark and Shawn, My first rod is on the wrapper, and I can't wait to finish it and get iton the stream. I caught a couple of rainbows earlier today on an oldfiberglass Wright and Mcgill, but I know after building a cane rod formyself, landing a fish will be that much better. Enjoyed reading aboutyour firsts. Kevin from phsol@netcom.no Mon May 29 01:57:05 2000 e4T6v4106259 (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id FVB7AF00.5J1 for; Mon, 29 May 2000 08:56:39 +0200 Subject: Danny Twang boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC94B.4B47F380" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC94B.4B47F380 Annyone wondering who this Danny Twang caracter is? Cocky youngrodmaker =asking all sort of questions on the list, and somtimes to sure of him =self ;) Still too young to be careful and his early rodmaker career has =started very good, produsing wonderful PHY-rods. P=E5l H. Eliassen ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC94B.4B47F380 Annyone wondering who this Danny Twang caracteris? = young rodmaker asking all sort of questions on the list, and somtimes to = Eliassen ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFC94B.4B47F380-- from phsol@netcom.no Mon May 29 02:03:27 2000 e4T73Q106405 (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id FVB7L100.7JB for; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:03:01 +0200 Subject: Danny TwangDate: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:59:23 +0200 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC94C.2F0AD600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC94C.2F0AD600 Annyone wondering who this Danny Twang caracter is? Cocky youngrodmaker =asking all sort of questions on the list, and somtimes to sure of him =self ;) Still too young to be careful and his early rodmaker career has =started very good, produsing wonderful PHY-rods. Adrss too some =pictures, the page is not finished and the text is in norwegian, but =still a peek in Danny's workshop: =http://members.xoom.com/phelias/danny1.htm P=E5l H. Eliassen ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC94C.2F0AD600 Annyone wondering who this Danny Twang caracteris? = young rodmaker asking all sort of questions on the list, and somtimes to = started very good, produsing wonderful PHY-rods. Adrss too some = page is not finished and the text is in norwegian, but still a peek in = workshop: http://members.xoom.c= P=E5l H. Eliassen ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC94C.2F0AD600-- from weakley.hollow@gte.net Mon May 29 07:01:49 2000 e4TC1m108645 Subject: Re: Stanley Block planes a reminder, folks. one of the best sources of info on stanley planes is onthe internet at:http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm------------------- -gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon May 29 09:13:54 2000 e4TEDr110474 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 29 May 2000 09:00:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanley Block planes Thank you Gary ! Just what I needed. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Block planes a reminder, folks. one of the best sources of info on stanley planes is onthe internet at:http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm------------------- -gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 29 10:29:47 2000 e4TFTk111404 Priority: Normal (5.0.2195) Subject: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering Info To All - Here is the link to the information on the Catskill RodmakersGatheringin September.http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html All the files to download are in pdf format - the gathering postermay not display clearly on the monitor but will print out just fine. The registration formto send in is onthe web site - I will put links to the page latter in the week but I have hadseveralrequests for registration information. More information will follow. Chris from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon May 29 20:20:45 2000 e4U1Ki118395 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 29 May 2000 20:21:54 -0500 Subject: More on block planes I've been reading about the Stanley planes on the web site given yesterday,that is done by a Mr. Leach. In it, he lists a 9-1/4, and a 9-1/2 block plane, but says they all have a20 degree blade angle. If this is so, what in the heck are these twoStanley's I have with a much lower 10-12 degree blade angle ! These areallolder issues I believe. Two have a horizontal rear adjustment knurledwheel,and two others have an adjustment screw very much like a Record 061/2.Ontop of this, one of the low angle blades is only 1-3/8" wide, and will notaccept a 1-5/8" blade. Is something missing from this web site, or do I have much newer planesthanI thought ? GMA from rmoon@ida.net Mon May 29 20:23:21 2000 e4U1NK118531 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Handling DarrylThe old Pfluegers had an opening in the center oif the reel so that leadshot could be added.Ralph from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon May 29 20:27:36 2000 e4U1RX118695 Mon, 29 May 2000 22:27:27 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: More on block planes George,possibly what you have is a 60 1/2A like mine? It is a low anglestanley with adjustable throat. Try looking very, very closely at the verybackend down at the bottom corner on the left side of the shoe piece theremight bevery small hard to see # there. Mine are just barely legible.Shawn nobler wrote: I've been reading about the Stanley planes on the web site givenyesterday,that is done by a Mr. Leach. In it, he lists a 9-1/4, and a 9-1/2 block plane, but says they all have a20 degree blade angle. If this is so, what in the heck are these twoStanley's I have with a much lower 10-12 degree blade angle ! These areallolder issues I believe. Two have a horizontal rear adjustment knurledwheel,and two others have an adjustment screw very much like a Record 061/2.Ontop of this, one of the low angle blades is only 1-3/8" wide, and will notaccept a 1-5/8" blade. Is something missing from this web site, or do I have much newer planesthanI thought ? GMA from rmoon@ida.net Mon May 29 20:42:35 2000 e4U1gY118988 0000 Subject: Re: garrison binder The binder in McClanes Encyclopedia is like a Garrison but is not aGarrisonRalph from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Tue May 30 07:17:48 2000 e4UCHl125021 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 30 May 2000 08:17:47 EDT Subject: Reel Fit problem I need direction on a reel fit problem and I know some of you haveaddressed this problem. I gave my wife a 'great' bamboo rod made with an uplocking grip made byone of our list members for an anniversary gift. Come to find that thenew CFO reel does not fit. Tried a friends old model CFO and the reelfits perfectly. Know it is in the difference of the new vs old reelfoot. I would like to know if anyone has successfully modified a 'reel'foot and if so how did you do it. This is my first choice before doinganything to the rod. My first thought is to call the O..is store where I bought it and see ifthey have a suggestion. But they are more inept than I. My second was totake the same direction as flating the sole of a plane, cutting away atthe curvature of the reel foot unitl it fit. Help, would like her to fish this rod this weekend. Jim T from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue May 30 07:30:06 2000 e4UCU4125280 Tue, 30 May 2000 09:29:59 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Reel Fit problem Jim,can you interchange the reel feet from old to new? They are usuallypretty standard, but I am not overly familiar with Orvis CFO's . Shawn Pineo Jim Tefft wrote: I need direction on a reel fit problem and I know some of you haveaddressed this problem. I gave my wife a 'great' bamboo rod made with an uplocking grip made byone of our list members for an anniversary gift. Come to find that thenew CFO reel does not fit. Tried a friends old model CFO and the reelfits perfectly. Know it is in the difference of the new vs old reelfoot. I would like to know if anyone has successfully modified a 'reel'foot and if so how did you do it. This is my first choice before doinganything to the rod. My first thought is to call the O..is store where I bought it and see ifthey have a suggestion. But they are more inept than I. My second was totake the same direction as flating the sole of a plane, cutting away atthe curvature of the reel foot unitl it fit. Help, would like her to fish this rod this weekend. Jim T from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue May 30 07:36:33 2000 e4UCaW125552 Tue, 30 May 2000 09:36:27 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Reel Fit problem Sorry about that Jim I just remembered that the Orvis are one piece andnot screwed on feet.If the reel seat is too high, I would suggest finding a dowel of same arcand wrap with sandpaper and sand the underside of the seat.If it is too wide, then it is a little harder. Is it a polished surface?You would have to file and sand equal amounts of each side and then try tobring the sheen back up using finer and finer grip sandpaper and polish.Probably not much help but it's abummer! Shawn Pineo Jim Tefft wrote: I need direction on a reel fit problem and I know some of you haveaddressed this problem. I gave my wife a 'great' bamboo rod made with an uplocking grip made byone of our list members for an anniversary gift. Come to find that thenew CFO reel does not fit. Tried a friends old model CFO and the reelfits perfectly. Know it is in the difference of the new vs old reelfoot. I would like to know if anyone has successfully modified a 'reel'foot and if so how did you do it. This is my first choice before doinganything to the rod. My first thought is to call the O..is store where I bought it and see ifthey have a suggestion. But they are more inept than I. My second was totake the same direction as flating the sole of a plane, cutting away atthe curvature of the reel foot unitl it fit. Help, would like her to fish this rod this weekend. Jim T from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue May 30 07:56:11 2000 e4UCuA126020 Subject: Yet another first Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0833_01BFCA15.805D37E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0833_01BFCA15.805D37E0 I had hoped to have a new rod to fish this weekend. After the fiasco =with the cordless drill things looked bleak. But I managed to find the =time and got my rod built and took it out this weekend. I fished with a =larger rod the first day due to the high water in upstate New York but =took out the new I had taken the rod to a local fly shop on Friday afternoon to try a few =lines and the guide who works in the shop and I decided it was a 3wt. So =I loaded up the new reel with a DT3 and headed to NY. Oh, I took the =family too. Sunday morning the water was quite high and I was standing on a rock in =water a little too deep and too fast to be comfortable. This rock is =where I usually sit and survey the river and watch for feeding fish. So =since I've got trees 10' behind me I was roll casting and the rod easily =laid out 30-35' of line. On my 2nd cast I got a 11" brookie. A few =minutes later I landed a LL Salmon. Later I moved off my perch and =headed upstream to a spot where I can cast. After 3 hrs of casting and =a couple 15" rainbows later the 3wt was the right choice. So I've landed 3 of the 5 salmonids in the river. I have never seen any =but there are rumors of lakers coming downstream from the lake. What I =want to know is where the browns are. I've fished that river for a week =straight and caught nothing but browns. Now when I need one for the =grand slam therre isn't one in sight. It was a great outing anyways and =a grand start for the first rod. The rod is a 6' 9" 3wt. If anyone is interested I have a few pictures on =my web site: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/images/p1010022.jpg and=p1010021.jpg. They are not the best photos but they are BIG at 370KB = Now for the bad news. The first rod I finished will be the first rod I =refinish. The first two coats of finish were perfect but the 3rd coat of =varnish went on thick and looks like crap. Oh well at least it wasn't =fish eyes :-). At least I'l be able to sign the rod since I forgot to do =that before finishing it. Thanks to all for the advice Paul P.S. The owner of the Fly shop (who's used to seeing plastic rods) was =impressed and wants me to build a few to put in the shop. I think I'll =pratice on a few more but I am ordering a bale of cane later today. ------=_NextPart_000_0833_01BFCA15.805D37E0 I had hoped to have a new rod to fish this weekend. After the fiasco = cordless drill things looked bleak. But I managed to find the time and = rod built and took it out this weekend. I fished with a larger rod the = due to the high water in upstate New York but took out the newrod = Morning. I had taken the rod to a local fly shop on Friday afternoon to try a = lines and the guide who works in the shop and I decided it was a 3wt. So = loaded up the new reel with a DT3 and headed to NY. Oh, I took the = too.Sunday morning the water was quite high and I was standing = in water a little too deep and too fast to be comfortable. This rock is = usually sit and survey the river and watch for feeding fish. So since = trees 10' behind me I was roll casting and the rod easily laid out = line. On my 2nd cast I got a 11" brookie. A few minutes later I landed a = was the right choice.So I've landed 3 of the 5 salmonids in the = have never seen any but there are rumors of lakers coming downstream = lake. What I want to know is where the browns are. I've fished that = week straight and caught nothing but browns. Now when I need one for the= start for the first rod.The rod is a 6' 9" 3wt. If anyone is interested I have a few pictures = web site: http://www.pa= p1010021.jpg. They are not the best photos but they are BIG at 370KB =each. Now for the bad news. The first rod I finished will be the first rod = refinish. The first two coats of finish were perfect but the 3rd coat of = went on thick and looks like crap. Oh well at least it wasn't fish eyes = least I'l be able to sign the rod since I forgot to do that before = it.Thanks to all for the advicePaulP.S. The owner of the Fly shop (who's used to seeing plastic rods) = impressed and wants me to build a few to put in the shop. I think I'll = on a few more but I am ordering a bale of cane later today. ------=_NextPart_000_0833_01BFCA15.805D37E0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue May 30 08:00:05 2000 e4UD04126190 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: More on block planes Importance: Normal George, It sounds to me like you have 60 1/2 planes... not 06 1/2... Here's thepage for 60 1/2 planes of the Blood and Gore... http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: More on block planes I've been reading about the Stanley planes on the web site given yesterday,that is done by a Mr. Leach. In it, he lists a 9-1/4, and a 9-1/2 block plane, but says they all have a20 degree blade angle. If this is so, what in the heck are these twoStanley's I have with a much lower 10-12 degree blade angle ! These areallolder issues I believe. Two have a horizontal rear adjustment knurledwheel,and two others have an adjustment screw very much like a Record 061/2.Ontop of this, one of the low angle blades is only 1-3/8" wide, and will notaccept a 1-5/8" blade. Is something missing from this web site, or do I have much newer planesthanI thought ? GMA from rvenneri@ulster.net Tue May 30 08:18:52 2000 e4UDIq126970 0400 Organization: Venneri's Subject: Re: Reel Fit problem Jim Tefft wrote: I need direction on a reel fit problem and I know some of you haveaddressed this problem. I gave my wife a 'great' bamboo rod made with an uplocking grip made byone of our list members for an anniversary gift. Come to find that thenew CFO reel does not fit. Tried a friends old model CFO and the reelfits perfectly. Know it is in the difference of the new vs old reelfoot. I would like to know if anyone has successfully modified a 'reel'foot and if so how did you do it. This is my first choice before doinganything to the rod. My first thought is to call the O..is store where I bought it and see ifthey have a suggestion. But they are more inept than I. My second was totake the same direction as flating the sole of a plane, cutting away atthe curvature of the reel foot unitl it fit. Help, would like her to fish this rod this weekend. Jim TJim TJim,If the foot is to big you can mill the reel foot on the bottom with aball end mill of 5/8 dia. If the foot is to small you can build it upwith tape. I have used both methods in the past and they will bothwork to get you on the stream. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue May 30 09:05:21 2000 e4UE5K128165 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 30 May 2000 09:06:31 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: More on block planes That's it ! I missed this last night. Just too tired I guess, Thanks to all, GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: More on block planes George, It sounds to me like you have 60 1/2 planes... not 06 1/2... Here's thepage for 60 1/2 planes of the Blood and Gore... http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 6:24 PM Subject: More on block planes I've been reading about the Stanley planes on the web site givenyesterday,that is done by a Mr. Leach. In it, he lists a 9-1/4, and a 9-1/2 block plane, but says they all have a20 degree blade angle. If this is so, what in the heck are these twoStanley's I have with a much lower 10-12 degree blade angle ! These areallolder issues I believe. Two have a horizontal rear adjustment knurledwheel,and two others have an adjustment screw very much like a Record 061/2.Ontop of this, one of the low angle blades is only 1-3/8" wide, and will notaccept a 1-5/8" blade. Is something missing from this web site, or do I have much newer planesthanI thought ? GMA from Mackelvane@aol.com Tue May 30 09:50:36 2000 e4UEoZ101017 Subject: refinish glass? A friend of mine just picked up an old Wright McGill glass rod at an estate sale. It looks like it spent plenty of time in the elements and could use a makeover. Does anyone have any tips on restoring glass rods? Thanks. Jeremy from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue May 30 10:02:54 2000 e4UF2s103789 KAA28168 ESMTP for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;Tue, 30 May 2000 10:02:34 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) In the last few weeks there was a post of some business selling the newedition of the garrison book for $50and I cant seem to find the post in archives. If anybody remembers who itwas would they please send it to me. Just finished gluing up a garrison 212e this weekend and had to do somefinal planing by hand instead of myMorgan mill as I had already cut it to length before I double checked mymeasurements (measure twice cut once)so I dug out L.N. rodmakers block plane. Man what a pleasure to use, whoever came up with the idea ofrecessing the bottom of a block plane should get a medal. My forms weregarrison style with one adjustmentbolt instead of the push pull, set the forms and planed till no moreshavings came off the plane and all sixstrips miced out perfect. I know that the Lee Neilson (sp?) rodmakersblock plane is pricey but I think thatit is definitely worth the money. The quality is way above anythingStanley or record makes and has the rightweight and feel in the hand. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rmoon@ida.net Tue May 30 10:16:37 2000 e4UFGa105067 0000 Subject: Re: PatrickI know you don't hear much about him. He is not on the Rod maker'slist, but the man you have to thank for the recessed sole is a very goodrodmaker by the name of Bob Clark in Lewiston, Idaho. He also sells ahell of a good Garrison style planing form.Ralph from earsdws@duke.edu Tue May 30 10:28:33 2000 e4UFSX105908 LAA02807; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University MedicalCenter Subject: Re: Here, here on the L.N. plane with the "rodmakers" grove! Love mine morethan the Mrs, somedays. (Certainlyspend more time with it, and is usually easier to get along with). Recommend one (L.N. with grove) to all rodmakers. You're on your own about the Mrs thing, dws. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: In the last few weeks there was a post of some business selling the newedition of the garrison book for $50and I cant seem to find the post in archives. If anybody remembers who itwas would they please send it to me. Just finished gluing up a garrison 212e this weekend and had to do somefinal planing by hand instead of myMorgan mill as I had already cut it to length before I double checked mymeasurements (measure twice cut once)so I dug out L.N. rodmakers block plane. Man what a pleasure to use, whoever came up with the idea ofrecessing the bottom of a block plane should get a medal. My forms weregarrison style with one adjustmentbolt instead of the push pull, set the forms and planed till no moreshavings came off the plane and all sixstrips miced out perfect. I know that the Lee Neilson (sp?) rodmakersblock plane is pricey but I think thatit is definitely worth the money. The quality is way above anythingStanley or record makes and has the rightweight and feel in the hand. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from timklein@uswest.net Tue May 30 11:11:33 2000 e4UGBW107711 (63.225.127.233) Subject: Re: www.wildadv.com for "The Book". Price looks like it's still $50.00 ifanyoneelse is interested. They were a pleasure to do business with. Standard shipping made it toColorado in 3 days.---Tim "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could bejust as proud for half the money"- Arthur Godfrey ----- Original Message -----From: Coffey, Patrick W Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 9:02 AM In the last few weeks there was a post of some business selling thenewedition of the garrison book for $50 and I cant seem to find the post inarchives. If anybody remembers who it was would they please send it tome. from timklein@uswest.net Tue May 30 11:53:34 2000 e4UGrX109191 (63.225.127.142) Subject: Rod feedback I'm looking to make myself a 3 weight rod, but I've got a small dilemma. I split, and cut to length, strips for the F.E. Thomas 3 weight listed inJack Howell's book several weeks ago. Three weeks ago I received my shiny new Morgan Hand Mill. Rather thankilltime splitting new strips and prepping nodes, I pushed the new tool intoservice with the strips I'd already prepped. Due to the two or three inchesscrap required for the hold down screws, I need to find a new taper forthisrod. I figure that I can easily get a six footer out of these strips, maybe sixthree if I'm careful. The first thing that came to mind was the six footthree weight taper listed in Wayne's book, but I don't know anything aboutit. I looked through the archives quickly and it appears that there is somediscussion of a Sir D modified to these dimensions. I'm confused! I haven't run Wayne's taper through Hexrod yet, but is his sixfooter an adjusted version of his seven and a half foot four weight or hassomeone else scaled the seven and half footer down? Any feedback on this or just an appraisal of the six foot three weight inWayne's book would be appreciated. Also, feel free to suggest anothertaperthat meets my needs if you think you have a good one!---Tim "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could bejust as proud for half the money"- Arthur Godfrey from sf_saez@email.msn.com Tue May 30 12:38:56 2000 e4UHct110464 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Tue, 30 May 2000 10:38:40 -0700 Subject: RE: Rod feedback Importance: Normal I made a rod with this taper in Chris Bogart's rod making class two yearsago. This is the taper Chris suggested for the small stream rod I wanted tomake. It flexes well into the butt on casts longer than 25 feet (10' leader& 15' line). A fast loading rod is exactly what is needed on small brushystreams where you rarely get more than 5 feet of line past the tiptop. I've used it with two lines, a standard WF 3wt line and a Wulff TriangleTaper 2/3wt line. The Wulff line is the best all around match in myexperience, but it's really good for roll casts. If you're looking fordistance casting or a fast 3wt taper then this is probably not it. As myfirst rod, any flaws in executing this taper were purely my owninexperiencealthough Chris headed off the big ones. Someone else might have adifferentexperience with this taper. from stpete@netten.net Tue May 30 16:26:06 2000 e4ULQ5119415 Tue, 30 May 2000 16:21:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Reel Fit problem Jim, Buy an older CFO! Rick C. Jim Tefft wrote: I need direction on a reel fit problem and I know some of you haveaddressed this problem. I gave my wife a 'great' bamboo rod made with an uplocking grip made byone of our list members for an anniversary gift. Come to find that thenew CFO reel does not fit. Tried a friends old model CFO and the reelfits perfectly. Know it is in the difference of the new vs old reelfoot. I would like to know if anyone has successfully modified a 'reel'foot and if so how did you do it. This is my first choice before doinganything to the rod. My first thought is to call the O..is store where I bought it and see ifthey have a suggestion. But they are more inept than I. My second was totake the same direction as flating the sole of a plane, cutting away atthe curvature of the reel foot unitl it fit. Help, would like her to fish this rod this weekend. Jim T from stpete@netten.net Tue May 30 16:28:12 2000 e4ULSB119572 Tue, 30 May 2000 16:23:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Yet another first Rod boundary="------------AC9302BFAF4F3D4BF940C09E" --------------AC9302BFAF4F3D4BF940C09E Paul, What taper did you make, if you don't mind telling? Rick C. Paul Goodwin wrote: I had hoped to have a new rod to fish this weekend. After the fiascowith the cordless drill things looked bleak. But I managed to find thetime and got my rod built and took it out this weekend. I fished witha larger rod the first day due to the high water in upstate New Yorkbut took out the newrod Sunday Morning. I had taken the rod to a local fly shop on Friday afternoon to try afew lines and the guide who works in the shop and I decided it was a3wt. So I loaded up the new reel with a DT3 and headed to NY. Oh, Itook the family too. Sunday morning the water was quite high and I was standing on a rockin water a little too deep and too fast to be comfortable. This rockis where I usually sit and survey the river and watch for feedingfish. So since I've got trees 10' behind me I was roll casting and therod easily laid out 30-35' of line. On my 2nd cast I got a 11"brookie. A few minutes later I landed a LL Salmon. Later I moved offmy perch and headed upstream to a spot where I can cast. After 3 hrsof casting and a couple 15" rainbows later the 3wt was the rightchoice. So I've landed 3 of the 5 salmonids in the river. I have never seenany but there are rumors of lakers coming downstream from the lake.What I want to know is where the browns are. I've fished that river anyways and a grand start for the first rod. The rod is a 6' 9" 3wt. If anyone is interested I have a few pictureson my web site: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/images/p1010022.jpgandp1010021.jpg. They are not the best photos but they are BIG at 370KBeach. Now for the bad news. The first rod I finished will be the first rod Irefinish. The first two coats of finish were perfect but the 3rd coatof varnish went on thick and looks like crap. Oh well at least itwasn't fish eyes :-). At least I'l be able to sign the rod since Iforgot to do that before finishing it. Thanks to all for the advice Paul P.S. The owner of the Fly shop (who's used to seeing plastic rods) wasimpressed and wants me to build a few to put in the shop. I think I'llpratice on a few more but I am ordering a bale of cane later today. --------------AC9302BFAF4F3D4BF940C09E Paul,What taper did you make, if you don't mind telling?Rick C.Paul Goodwin wrote: Ihad hoped to have a new rod to fish this weekend. After the fiasco withthe cordless drill things looked bleak. But I managed to find the timeand got my rod built and took it out this weekend. I fished with a largerrod the first day due to the high water in upstate New York but took outthe newrod Sunday Morning.I had taken the rod to a local flyshop on Friday afternoon to try a few lines and the guide who works inthe shop and I decided it was a 3wt. So I loaded up the new reel with aDT3 and headed to NY. Oh, I took the family too.Sunday morning the water was quitehigh and I was standing on a rock in water a little too deep and too fastto be comfortable. This rock is where I usually sit and survey the riverand watch for feeding fish. So since I've got trees 10' behind me I wasroll casting and the rod easily laid out 30-35' of line. On my 2nd castI got a 11" brookie. A few minutes later I landed a LL Salmon. Later I After 3 hrs of casting and a couple 15" rainbows later the 3wt was theright choice.So I've landed 3 of the 5 salmonidsin the river. I have never seen any but there are rumors of lakers comingdownstream from the lake. What I want to know is where the browns are.I've fished that river for a week straight and caught nothing but browns.Now when I need one for the grand slam therre isn't one in sight. It wasa great outing anyways and a grand start for the first rod.The rod is a 6' 9" 3wt. If anyone isinterested I have a few pictures on my web site: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/images/p1010022.jpgand p1010021.jpg. They are not the best photos but they are BIG at 370KBeach.Now for the bad news. The first rodI finished will be the first rod I refinish. The first two coats of finishwere perfect but the 3rd coat of varnish went on thick and looks like crap.Oh well at least it wasn't fish eyes :-). At least I'l be able to signthe rod since I forgot to do that before finishing it.Thanks to all for theadvicePaulP.S. The owner of the Fly shop (who'sused to seeing plastic rods) was impressed and wants me to build a fewto put in the shop. I think I'll pratice on a few more but I am orderinga bale of cane later today. --------------AC9302BFAF4F3D4BF940C09E-- from dr.matro@airmail.net Tue May 30 18:02:48 2000 e4UN2m122434 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.438) with esmtp forsender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Re: Reel Fit problem mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jim Try the Orvis dealer line at 1-800-451-4344. If you run into a wall, askto speak to a lady by the name of Leoni. She seems to specialize in theobscure. The CFO reel foot is held on by two screws and the machining ofthe reel itself hasn't changed much through the years. Sooo, an old/newfoot should be a perfect fit. If this turns into too big a pain in the a**, alter the foot. Check theinner curve of the foot before removing any material from it. If it's aclose fit to your reelseat insert, remove material from the top flangesonly. If it's sloppy, alter the curve's i.d. for a better fit. HTH Ken from channer1@rmi.net Tue May 30 19:37:11 2000 e4V0bA124584 Subject: Re: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Here, here on the L.N. plane with the "rodmakers" grove! Love mine morethan the Mrs, somedays. (Certainlyspend more time with it, and is usually easier to get along with). Recommend one (L.N. with grove) to all rodmakers. You're on your own about the Mrs thing, dws. dave;I'll second that and add that it doesn't talk back,either. Blessed bethe things that don't talk back! from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue May 30 20:03:03 2000 e4V132125316 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 30 May 2000 20:56:57 Subject: Help in pricing a Leonard rod Importance: Normal Hello resident rod experts, A friend of mine is selling his uncle's fishing tackle and has come acrossa Leonard 15 ft spey rod. Overall the rod is in excellent condition withthe exception of one tip being short a couple of inches. Any ideas of thevalue of such a monster? Even a rough ballpark figure would be useful. Thanks in advance, Richard from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue May 30 22:34:57 2000 e4V3Yu128889 Subject: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? The list has been quiet lately. So, I have a question for all of you: Is it possible to finish nickel silver ferrules in the style of color case hardening? I very much like to color to some of the older firearms with color case hardening for the 'blueing' technique. I haven't yet found the chapter in my R. H. Angier book 'Firearm Blueing and Browning' on how to do this process, but does anyone on the list have a recipe or experience with this on nickel silver ferrules? Just curious to see if anyone has tried it yet before I start experimenting. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, Minnesota from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed May 31 03:48:21 2000 e4V8mJ103854 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Rod feedback Tim, I made the PHY Midge, and its my favorite rod, so far......Its 6`3" #4, but will convert beautiful into a #3 in Hexrod. regardsdanny Tim Klein wrote: I'm looking to make myself a 3 weight rod, but I've got a small dilemma. I split, and cut to length, strips for the F.E. Thomas 3 weight listed inJack Howell's book several weeks ago. Three weeks ago I received my shiny new Morgan Hand Mill. Rather thankilltime splitting new strips and prepping nodes, I pushed the new tool intoservice with the strips I'd already prepped. Due to the two or threeinchesscrap required for the hold down screws, I need to find a new taper forthisrod. I figure that I can easily get a six footer out of these strips, maybe sixthree if I'm careful. The first thing that came to mind was the six footthree weight taper listed in Wayne's book, but I don't know anythingaboutit. I looked through the archives quickly and it appears that there issomediscussion of a Sir D modified to these dimensions. I'm confused! I haven't run Wayne's taper through Hexrod yet, but is hissixfooter an adjusted version of his seven and a half foot four weight or hassomeone else scaled the seven and half footer down? Any feedback on this or just an appraisal of the six foot three weight inWayne's book would be appreciated. Also, feel free to suggest anothertaperthat meets my needs if you think you have a good one!---Tim "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could bejust as proud for half the money"- Arthur Godfrey from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed May 31 05:07:27 2000 e4VA7P104897 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id WAA28021 for; Wed, 31 May 2000 22:07:16 +1200 Subject: non rodbuilding..but hugely important I thought I should inform the list that Canturbury ( my rugby team) beattheAustralian Brumbies team in the final of the Super 12 competition (playedbetween Australia, South Africa and New Zealand sides) in Canberra lastSaturday. My condolences to Tony, Shaun, Peter,Mike .. and others. :)))))))) Ian Kearney from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed May 31 05:46:10 2000 e4VAk8105455 Subject: Re: Yet another first Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CE_01BFCACB.9FD261C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01BFCACB.9FD261C0 Rick, The cork I got had an oversize hole. Nice but the hole was more like =3/8" than the usual 1/4". So I gave it a swelled butt and added 3" to = Paul Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:26 PMSubject: Re: Yet another first Rod ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01BFCACB.9FD261C0 Rick, I started with Wayne C's 6'6" 2 piece 4wt. = = Paul ----- Original Message ----- Rick = Goodwin Cc: Rodmakers Listserv Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 =5:26 PMSubject: Re: Yet another first =Rod Rick C. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01BFCACB.9FD261C0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 31 08:50:45 2000 e4VDoj110033 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 31 May 2000 08:52:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? You must remember that N.S. is not a ferrous material. Many of the normalbluing, etc. treatments will not apply, as N.S. is mostly a copper alloy.LeClair is far more in tune with the treatments that work on this metalthanmost. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? The list has been quiet lately. So, I have a question for all of you: Is it possible to finish nickel silver ferrules in the style of color casehardening? I very much like to color to some of the older firearms with color casehardening for the 'blueing' technique. I haven't yet found the chapter inmyR. H. Angier book 'Firearm Blueing and Browning' on how to do thisprocess,but does anyone on the list have a recipe or experience with this onnickelsilver ferrules? Just curious to see if anyone has tried it yet before I startexperimenting. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, Minnesota from Canerods@aol.com Wed May 31 08:56:58 2000 e4VDuv110402 Subject: Re: Yet another first Rod In a message dated 5/31/00 3:46:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pmgoodwin@earthlink.net writes: Paul, Regarding large ID dia. cork rings, maybe you could build a wood spacerunder the cork. I started to restore an old (unmarked) production rod over the pastweekend. I was trying to decide if the cork grip was worth saving and lo and behold the whole grip and reelseat came off in my hands. I've seen wood spacers used under NS reelseats and I've seen rods withshort cane under other reelseats. (IE: many Heddons) This was the first timethat I've seen a wooden spacer used under the cork grip too. It was as long as the grip and reelseat. The spacer was bored to receive the turned end of the butt's cane into it's bored pocket. The reelseat and cork grip were pre-built over the spacer, IMHO. The short cigar grip was only a few thou's thick at the winding check and I'll bet that this was a labor saving method to cut production costs - screwup a grip during production - no problem, send it back for rework and use the next one to mount to the rodblank. Pass it down the assembly line. Want a different grip design for a trade rod - use the grip assembly in the other bin. Pass it down the assembly line..... Don Burns from jczimny@dol.net Wed May 31 09:32:28 2000 e4VEWR112389 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? Yes. It is possible. Most good hobby/craft stores carry preparations tomakecopper alloys look old. There are usually three types: 1) brownish, 2)green, 3)greyish. Most produce the varigated look that one sees in case hardening.John Z Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: The list has been quiet lately. So, I have a question for all of you: Is it possible to finish nickel silver ferrules in the style of color casehardening? I very much like to color to some of the older firearms with color casehardening for the 'blueing' technique. I haven't yet found the chapter inmyR. H. Angier book 'Firearm Blueing and Browning' on how to do thisprocess,but does anyone on the list have a recipe or experience with this onnickelsilver ferrules? Just curious to see if anyone has tried it yet before I startexperimenting. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, Minnesota from earsdws@duke.edu Wed May 31 10:02:03 2000 e4VF23113747 LAA10853; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University MedicalCenter Subject: wood inserts Rodmakers,Can anyone offer suggestions/instructions (a URL) for use ofcontrasting wood inserts (ala Wagner) for swelled butt rods?Thanks, dws. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed May 31 10:23:33 2000 e4VFNW114695 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA29068 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA23859 for Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? Listmember Pat Tumblin described a method for this usingautomatic transmission fluid. I thought it sounded interestingbut for some reason I haven't got around to trying it. Theoriginal posting is at http://www.uwm.edu:80/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9908.20 ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: The list has been quiet lately. So, I have a question for all of you: Is it possible to finish nickel silver ferrules in the style of color casehardening? I very much like to color to some of the older firearms with color casehardening for the 'blueing' technique. I haven't yet found the chapter inmyR. H. Angier book 'Firearm Blueing and Browning' on how to do thisprocess,but does anyone on the list have a recipe or experience with this onnickelsilver ferrules? Just curious to see if anyone has tried it yet before I startexperimenting. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, Minnesota from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed May 31 11:20:57 2000 e4VGKu116711 Wed, 31 May 2000 13:20:51 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? What kind of appearance does this give? I am not familiar with casehardening, doesit look like bluing? Do you have to varnish it after? How durable is it?What kindof chemical reaction are we talking about here? Might this be worthlooking into asan alternative to bluing?Shawn Pineo Frank Stetzer wrote: Listmember Pat Tumblin described a method for this usingautomatic transmission fluid. I thought it sounded interestingbut for some reason I haven't got around to trying it. Theoriginal posting is at http://www.uwm.edu:80/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9908.20 ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: The list has been quiet lately. So, I have a question for all of you: Is it possible to finish nickel silver ferrules in the style of color casehardening? I very much like to color to some of the older firearms with color casehardening for the 'blueing' technique. I haven't yet found the chapter inmyR. H. Angier book 'Firearm Blueing and Browning' on how to do thisprocess,but does anyone on the list have a recipe or experience with this onnickelsilver ferrules? Just curious to see if anyone has tried it yet before I startexperimenting. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, Minnesota from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed May 31 11:45:10 2000 e4VGj9117818 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? I was told by a "metalworker" that if You heat the metal, (like heattreating) andlet cooling in thin oil (chain oil), instead of water, the metal will getdarkenedand verystrong but not brittle............ regardsdanny Frank Stetzer wrote: Listmember Pat Tumblin described a method for this usingautomatic transmission fluid. I thought it sounded interestingbut for some reason I haven't got around to trying it. Theoriginal posting is at http://www.uwm.edu:80/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9908.20 ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: The list has been quiet lately. So, I have a question for all of you: Is it possible to finish nickel silver ferrules in the style of color casehardening? I very much like to color to some of the older firearms with color casehardening for the 'blueing' technique. I haven't yet found the chapter inmyR. H. Angier book 'Firearm Blueing and Browning' on how to do thisprocess,but does anyone on the list have a recipe or experience with this onnickelsilver ferrules? Just curious to see if anyone has tried it yet before I startexperimenting. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, Minnesota from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed May 31 12:01:57 2000 e4VH1u118558 Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,In building guns I use a lot of brass, copper and coin silver. When you heat these up to cherry red they take on the look of case hardening but if you quench them in water (maybe oil also) they get soft and workable to shape into buttplates, trigger guards etc. I have never tried it to color ferrules tho so my suggetion is give it a try but I would have thought the masters would have already done this if it worked.Bret from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed May 31 12:41:35 2000 e4VHfR119901 0400 Subject: paraholism (mature passion) I just finished my second cane rod, Wayne C.s "The Force", a variation onPaul Young's para 15 taper, and having lawn cast it just once, a half anhour ago... well... hi, my name is Seth and I'm a paraholic. The thing is acannon. I am a lousy caster and it threw more line than I have ever thrownwith the graphite rod it is replacing, and with plenty of power to sparewhere the graphite would have been laboring. The timing was not at alldifficult to get. The line went straight where I wanted it to go despite afairly stiff breeze. More to the point, if you think of these things asfishing tools and not just in terms of how they cast, the rod has thatwonderful shivery "live" feel, great sensitivity, as if it can't wait to goand sniff out fish. I can see this is a great nymphing rod - I expect toreally feel every hookup. And I expect this is a characteristic ofparabolics, because every tremor is transmitted right down into thehandle. That got me thinking about why the parabolic functions so well in casting.I've read on this list the theory that its because every power fibre overthe length of the rod is contributing to the action. Maybe so. I haveanother theory. I think that it has more to do with the "slowness," thegentleness with which all that power is transmitted to the line. Rememberthat the real action of a rod is at the tip top, because that's where thekinetic energy is actually transferred from the relatively rigid rod to therelatively flexible line. A faster rod jerks the line back and forth. Iwould guess that this jerking action is an inefficient way of transferingenergy. A parabolic, by contrast, approximates its own action closer totheway the line behaves, so the energy is communicated more smoothly andefficiently. Its acceleration is slower and longer so it doesn't "overload"the line so easily. A good parabolic packs a huge wallup which it feeds tothe line a bit at a time, by comparison to a faster rod which tries to whipit into the line all at once. Does this make sense, all you engineers outthere? I still love my Sir D - first love is always the sweetest - but this issomething else. from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 31 12:47:15 2000 e4VHlE120224 Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? Brett and Danny are both right, they are just talking about differentmetals. Ferrous metals - iron, steel-are hardened and tempered by quenching, non- ferrous metals - copper,silver, gold, nickel silver - arerelieved of it's "work hardening" by quenching. In other words NS would besoftened by quenching.Darryl from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed May 31 12:52:02 2000 e4VHpx120489 Thu, 1 Jun 2000 01:51:30 +0800 Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) Seth,you poor devil, that tremor you mention feeling isn't the fish, it's theuser tremoring with excitement :-) Tony At 01:45 PM 5/31/00 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote: I just finished my second cane rod, Wayne C.s "The Force", a variation onPaul Young's para 15 taper, and having lawn cast it just once, a half anhour ago... well... hi, my name is Seth and I'm a paraholic. The thing is acannon. I am a lousy caster and it threw more line than I have everthrownwith the graphite rod it is replacing, and with plenty of power to sparewhere the graphite would have been laboring. The timing was not at alldifficult to get. The line went straight where I wanted it to go despite afairly stiff breeze. More to the point, if you think of these things asfishing tools and not just in terms of how they cast, the rod has thatwonderful shivery "live" feel, great sensitivity, as if it can't wait to goand sniff out fish. I can see this is a great nymphing rod - I expect toreally feel every hookup. And I expect this is a characteristic ofparabolics, because every tremor is transmitted right down into thehandle. That got me thinking about why the parabolic functions so well incasting.I've read on this list the theory that its because every power fibre overthe length of the rod is contributing to the action. Maybe so. I haveanother theory. I think that it has more to do with the "slowness," thegentleness with which all that power is transmitted to the line. Rememberthat the real action of a rod is at the tip top, because that's where thekinetic energy is actually transferred from the relatively rigid rod to therelatively flexible line. A faster rod jerks the line back and forth. Iwould guess that this jerking action is an inefficient way of transferingenergy. A parabolic, by contrast, approximates its own action closer totheway the line behaves, so the energy is communicated more smoothly andefficiently. Its acceleration is slower and longer so it doesn't "overload"the line so easily. A good parabolic packs a huge wallup which it feeds tothe line a bit at a time, by comparison to a faster rod which tries to whipit into the line all at once. Does this make sense, all you engineers outthere? I still love my Sir D - first love is always the sweetest - but this issomething else. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed May 31 13:04:27 2000 e4VI4R120846 Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) As long as we are confessing our sins....I have been experimenting with parabolics for a couple months, and yes, Iwill agree with you. It is an actionthat most plastic rod people will not like, and it goes against theconventional wisdom that faster rods castfarther. The only problem that I have with most current parabolic tapersis that they were designed as a wetfly or nymphing rod. There is no reason a parabolic can't be a dry fly actionalso. A parabolic with a tight loop tip design?...A quad parabolic with a tight loop tip?...Darryl from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed May 31 13:13:42 2000 e4VIDf121168 Wed, 31 May 2000 14:13:41 -0400 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: paraholism (mature passion) And the para 15, on which the Force is based, does come with a wet tipand adry one. I'm almost wishing I had made the two-tip original design. If youthink in terms of the theory I was suggesting, the "para + tight loop tip"makes perfect sense, since the slightly stiffened tip would throw an extrajolt into the line at the very end of the stroke, just enough to close upthe loop, without interfering with the smooth flow of energy prior to that. -----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com [SMTP:DNHayashida@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 2:04 PM Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) As long as we are confessing our sins....I have been experimenting with parabolics for a couple months, and yes, Iwill agree with you. It is an action that most plastic rod people will notlike, and it goes against the conventional wisdom that faster rods castfarther. The only problem that I have with most current parabolic tapersis that they were designed as a wet fly or nymphing rod. There is noreason a parabolic can't be a dry fly action also. A parabolic with a tight loop tip design?...A quad parabolic with a tight loop tip?...Darryl from yves@hwy97.net Wed May 31 13:28:17 2000 e4VISH121715 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.2.0) with SMTP id ;Wed, 31 May 2000 11:28:16 -0700 Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) Seth: Which of Wayne C's rods is "the Force". Is the taper listed in hisbook? TIA, Dave La Touche At 01:45 PM 5/31/00 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote: I just finished my second cane rod, Wayne C.s "The Force", a variation onPaul Young's para 15 taper, and having lawn cast it just once, a half anhour ago... well... hi, my name is Seth and I'm a paraholic. The thing is acannon. I am a lousy caster and it threw more line than I have everthrownwith the graphite rod it is replacing, and with plenty of power to sparewhere the graphite would have been laboring. The timing was not at alldifficult to get. The line went straight where I wanted it to go despite afairly stiff breeze. More to the point, if you think of these things asfishing tools and not just in terms of how they cast, the rod has thatwonderful shivery "live" feel, great sensitivity, as if it can't wait to goand sniff out fish. I can see this is a great nymphing rod - I expect toreally feel every hookup. And I expect this is a characteristic ofparabolics, because every tremor is transmitted right down into thehandle. That got me thinking about why the parabolic functions so well incasting.I've read on this list the theory that its because every power fibre overthe length of the rod is contributing to the action. Maybe so. I haveanother theory. I think that it has more to do with the "slowness," thegentleness with which all that power is transmitted to the line. Rememberthat the real action of a rod is at the tip top, because that's where thekinetic energy is actually transferred from the relatively rigid rod to therelatively flexible line. A faster rod jerks the line back and forth. Iwould guess that this jerking action is an inefficient way of transferingenergy. A parabolic, by contrast, approximates its own action closer totheway the line behaves, so the energy is communicated more smoothly andefficiently. Its acceleration is slower and longer so it doesn't "overload"the line so easily. A good parabolic packs a huge wallup which it feeds tothe line a bit at a time, by comparison to a faster rod which tries to whipit into the line all at once. Does this make sense, all you engineers outthere? I still love my Sir D - first love is always the sweetest - but this issomething else. from briansr@point-net.com Wed May 31 15:15:19 2000 e4VKFI126238 Wed, 31 May 2000 16:15:17 -0400 Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) How about a Parabolic "wetfly/nymph action rod with a loooonnnnngggggBraided leader with a dry fly on it ???? Like wot we lowly Salmonfisherpeople use with our RPL+s HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) As long as we are confessing our sins....I have been experimenting with parabolics for a couple months, and yes, Iwill agree with you. It is an action that most plastic rod people will notlike, and it goes against the conventional wisdom that faster rods castfarther. The only problem that I have with most current parabolic tapersisthat they were designed as a wet fly or nymphing rod. There is no reason aparabolic can't be a dry fly action also.A parabolic with a tight loop tip design?...A quad parabolic with a tight loop tip?...Darryl from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed May 31 15:27:43 2000 e4VKRg126712 Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) At 01:45 PM 5/31/2000 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote:-------------->snip-------- ------------------> snip--------------------.That got me thinking about why the parabolic functions so well incasting.I've read on this list the theory that its because every power fibre overthe length of the rod is contributing to the action. Maybe so. I haveanother theory. I think that it has more to do with the "slowness," thegentleness with which all that power is transmitted to the line. Rememberthat the real action of a rod is at the tip top, because that's where thekinetic energy is actually transferred from the relatively rigid rod to therelatively flexible line. A faster rod jerks the line back and forth. Iwould guess that this jerking action is an inefficient way of transferingenergy. A parabolic, by contrast, approximates its own action closer totheway the line behaves, so the energy is communicated more smoothly andefficiently. Its acceleration is slower and longer so it doesn't "overload"the line so easily. A good parabolic packs a huge wallup which it feeds tothe line a bit at a time, by comparison to a faster rod which tries to whipit into the line all at once. Does this make sense, all you engineers outthere? I am not and engineer but a fellow paraholic. This seems like a goodexplanation to me. Fly rods are only power transmission devices and themore efficiently power is transferred to the loop the better. Parabolicsseem really smooth to me. Joe Perego noticed this right away casting myGranger on Friday. I also think that triangle taper lines work particularlywell with this sort of rod. -DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed May 31 16:34:13 2000 e4VLYC128665 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: paraholic boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFCB58.32C512C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFCB58.32C512C0 I have noticed many rodmakers and fishermen have started theircarreer with one of the faster cane rods, like the Sir D. I think it isbecause of its likeliness to pla..... rods, action vise. It is alsoa very easy rod to use. Everybody can make it cast beatiful. Come wisdom and experience, most, I think, try a parabolic rod,and Lo, nothing else will do afterwards. The frase paraholic speaks As for tight loops: I came back half an hour ago from an evening of =fishing,using a Perfectionist (and Yes, its a PHY rod) If the loops gets anytighter, there wont be any room for the hook! the Force: I have one myself, I use it for all kinds of fishing:'dry, wet nymph, streamers. It its the rod for all times. As far as I =seeit, its a mixture of the two tips for the original Para 15. Wayne reallymade a gem with this one. I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go for the secondbest, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tell my clients, =lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what a parabolic rod cando. These days I dont make anything else. Why should I? regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFCB58.32C512C0 I have noticed many rodmakers and fishermen have = theircarreer with one of the faster cane rods, like the Sir D. I = isbecause of its likeliness to pla..... rods, action vise. It is = very easy rod to use. Everybody can make it cast beatiful.Come = and experience, most, I think, try a parabolic rod,and Lo, nothing = do afterwards. The frase paraholic speaksfor it self: once addicted, = hard to lay off.As for tight loops: I came back half an hour ago = evening of fishing,using a Perfectionist (and Yes, its a PHY rod) If = loops gets anytighter, there wont be any room for the = Force: I have one myself, I use it for all kinds of fishing:'dry, = streamers. It its the rod for all times. As far as I seeit, its a = the two tips for the original Para 15. Wayne reallymade a gem with = one.I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go for = secondbest, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tell my = lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what a parabolic = I?regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BFCB58.32C512C0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed May 31 19:15:28 2000 e510FR102209 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 31 May 2000 19:02:04 -0500 , , Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? Yes, heating most any copper alloy makes them much softer. Casehardening isoften seen on gun receivers, and it produces almost rainbow coloring tothesteel, in a marbled pattern. GMA----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? List,In building guns I use a lot of brass, copper and coin silver. When youheatthese up to cherry red they take on the look of case hardening but if youquench them in water (maybe oil also) they get soft and workable toshapeinto buttplates, trigger guards etc. I have never tried it to colorferrulestho so my suggetion is give it a try but I would have thought the masterswould have already done this if it worked.Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed May 31 19:40:12 2000 e510eC102672 Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? In a message dated 05/30/2000 11:46:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bamboomaker@aol.com writes: Mark, You're a man after my own heart. I've done someof my reel seats in a case color before. As a gunsmith for the past thirty years, I've done a lot of this type of finish on many fire arms.The original way to "Case Harden" metal was done using Cyanide.You would pack the part in charred bone in a cast iron box. Sealthe box and place it in an oven for a certain amount of time at a very high temp. When the parts were heated for the proper amount of time, they were pulled out of the oven and immediatelydropped into liquid Cyanide. This is what gave then the colors andalso hardened the outer shell of the metal parts. Not many guysdo it this way anymore, as it is very dangerous to your health. So, the way we do it today and this will work on N/S componentsFirst, go to your local drug store and buy some Tincture OfBenzoin. This is a liquid used on cuts, etc. They may have to orderit for you, but it's only about ten dollars, if I remember right.Any way, what you do, is to use an acetylene torch, with a veryfine tip. You heat the component slightly and take a rag with some of the benzoin on it and wipe it onto the part. As the part gets hot enough, it will start to darken. Don't get the part too hot, as youdon't want to make it real dark. You will notice that the benzoin starts to form a clear coating on the part. At this time you use thetip of the flame to make the colors. Bring the tip almost in contactwith the part, at an angle so the flame makes a "pattern" on themetal. It's hard to explain, but if you experiment a little bit, you will see what I mean. They do look great with a case color finish. Give it a try. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed May 31 19:49:44 2000 e510ni102910 Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? stetzer@csd.uwm.edu,nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Oh, I forgot to tell you. When you do the case coloring this way,with Tincture Of Benzoin, it will leave the metal with a hard, clearcoating on it. This is the way most gunsmiths do the case coloringtoday. When a rifle receiver is finished this way, it is very hard totell it from true case hardening. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed May 31 19:51:00 2000 e510ox103014 Subject: Re: Blueing ferrules- Color case hardening . . . Can it be done? In a message dated 05/31/2000 1:55:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DNHayashida@aol.com writes: Darryl is right. You don't want to actually harden or softenthe ferrule or reel seat component. All you want to do is get thecolor of case hardening. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from anglport@con2.com Wed May 31 20:19:39 2000 e511Jd103437 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A95F6FE031C; Wed, 31 May 2000 21:16:15 -0400 Subject: Safely saving varnish Guys,I just got my copy of "Wood" magazine and it has something so cheapand souseful, I thought I'd share it. Remember all the chatter we had about Bloxygen and those "wine-sealers" varnishes? Stand back! In the bottom of a clean plastic 1/2 gal container, place a teaspoonofbaking soda and a 1/4 cup of vinegar and swish it around. The carbondioxide it creates is inert AND heavier-than-air. The mixture createsabout2 quarts of the stuff according to the article. You can pour the gas intoyour partially empty container of varnish just as though it were a liquid(remember-- "heavier-than-air"?) and it'll displace the oxygen-filled airso you can close up the container scecure in the knoledge it'll be just asyou left it when you reopen it next time! Just be DARNED sure you don'tpour any of the liquid crud in there with the gas! That'll ruin your wholemorning... How 'bout that, sportsfans? Aren't the simple solutions wonderful? And isn't it maddening when youthink "I coulda thoughta that!"? Art from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed May 31 22:28:43 2000 e513Sg104886 Subject: How was that again? OK, getting ready to try soaking strips, before rough planing. Now how was that again, straighten and press nodes before soaking or after? It seemsthat straightening and pressing before soaking is pointless as the soaking will simply let the strips revert. On the other hand, will there be too muchwater in the strips for them to take a set with heat and pressure, and if you have that much heat, won't they be too dry to get the benefits of the process? I will drink beer in anticipation of someone's response.MikePS, please don't say "Why not build nodeless!" from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed May 31 22:38:22 2000 e513cM105073 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) Darryl - in your original post about the tight loop tip design you indicatedit was for a 5 wt line. Howwould you recommend proceeding to adapt it to a different line weight? Isearched the archive but didn't seeanything there on how to modify the taper for lighter lines. I aminterested in trying it on my next rodwhich I think will be the PHY Perfectionist. Your dimensions don't looktoo far off the Maurerversion, though it is a 4 wt and I'm not sure if I should use them "as is" ordo some adjustment - perhapsthrough Hexrod? thanks - mac DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: As long as we are confessing our sins....I have been experimenting with parabolics for a couple months, and yes, Iwill agree with you. It is anaction that most plastic rod people will not like, and it goes against theconventional wisdom that fasterrods cast farther. The only problem that I have with most currentparabolic tapers is that they were designedas a wet fly or nymphing rod. There is no reason a parabolic can't be a dryfly action also.A parabolic with a tight loop tip design?...A quad parabolic with a tight loop tip?...Darryl from Bamboomaker@aol.com Wed May 31 23:15:15 2000 e514FE105574 Subject: Re: How was that again? Mike, I prep nodes/split and briefly straighten the major kinks in the strips before soaking (otherwise you'll have some problems fitting a lot ofcrooked strips in a 2" ABS pipe). Rough planing goes quickly. If you let the strips sit out for a few hours, the 'oozing' of saturated cane disappears quite rapidly. In fact, if you take all six (or four) strips out of the water at the same time to plane, you'll find that by the fourth or fifth strip, the cane has dried somewhat. I then bind the strips and put them in the oven (I use 350 degrees) x 12-16 minutes, flipped on end (air gun oven) at half time. They come out straight and crispy for me. You'll have to experiment with what temperature and duration will work for you. I've put a cut soaked scrap strip that was prepared as the others in an airtight jar, allowing equilibration with a hygrometer (like those in a humidor). I've been amazed with this experimentation on how quickly bamboo can be dried with my airgun oven. You can do the same with a weighing technique. Hope that this helps. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN