from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Jun 1 00:39:09 2000 e515d7106708 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 01 Jun 2000 13:36:07 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: paraholic Well said Carsten! Be proud of your "addiction". Mike I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go for the secondbest, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tell my clients, lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what a parabolic rod cando. These days I dont make anything else. Why should I? regards,Carsten from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jun 1 05:10:12 2000 e51AA9108911 Subject: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFCC04.AF2164C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFCC04.AF2164C0 (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished with =polyurethane in the last few days. The contractor did a pretty good job; =one thing he mentioned was that he used an additive to the poly which, =in this country at least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd variation =on the spelling which sounds the same.Anyone know anything about these additives, which are supposed to =improve the plastic flow of the varnish and minimise blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell me what to do about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly =skite about their very infrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I =mean, it's an infrequent occasion of annoyance, but real all the same! =:'- (Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFCC04.AF2164C0 (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor = refinished with polyurethane in the last few days. The contractor did a = good job; one thing he mentioned was that he used an additive to the = in this country at least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd variation = spelling which sounds the same.Anyone know anything about these = blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell me what to do about= Kiwis who unfailingly skite about their very infrequent Rugby victories = Australia. I mean, it's an infrequent occasion of annoyance, but real = same! :'-(Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFCC04.AF2164C0-- from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Jun 1 08:25:34 2000 e51DPX111818 JAA07952; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Rodmakers Subject: Re: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance boundary="------------35AFA6CCB2ECFAF07418AACF" --------------35AFA6CCB2ECFAF07418AACF Flow additives (Flotrol, is one brand name, I believe), permit more"leveling" of the paint finish by slowing drying time. For floors orsurfaces with very large areas where there is concern over keeping a"wet edge," it works well to prevent/minimize the "dragging" caused whenyou run your wet brush over an adjacent area of paint that has partiallydried. I've used it for painting cabinets: I liked it on the tops, butnot on the vertical surfaces where I thought it might have caused runs.dws. petermckean wrote: (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished withpolyurethane in the last few days. The contractor did a pretty goodjob; one thing he mentioned was that he used an additive to the polywhich, in this country at least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierdvariation on the spelling which sounds the same.Anyone know anythingabout these additives, which are supposed to improve the plastic flowof the varnish and minimise blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell me what todo about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly skite about their veryinfrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I mean, it's an infrequentoccasion of annoyance, but real all the same! :'- (Peter --------------35AFA6CCB2ECFAF07418AACF Flow additives (Flotrol, is one brand name, I believe), permit more "leveling" with very large areas where there is concern over keeping a "wet edge,"it works well to prevent/minimize the "dragging" caused when you run your on the vertical surfaces where I thought it might have caused runs.dws.petermckean wrote: (1)I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished with polyurethanein the last few days. The contractor did a pretty good job; one thing hementioned was that he used an additive to the poly which, in this countryat least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd variation on the spellingwhich sounds the same.Anyoneknow anything about these additives, which are supposed to improve theplastic flow of the varnish and minimise blemishes?(2)Can anyone tell me what to do about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly skiteabout their very infrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I mean, it'san infrequent occasion of annoyance, but real all the same! :'- (Peter --------------35AFA6CCB2ECFAF07418AACF-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Jun 1 09:15:43 2000 e51EFg113476 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0155_01BFCBB2.C91FE0B0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01BFCBB2.C91FE0B0 There is nothing you can do about them. Just laugh at them when they do =their silly dance :-) before the match. (Flanker, Charles River Rugby Club - Retired) Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 6:05 AMSubject: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished with =polyurethane in the last few days. The contractor did a pretty good job; =one thing he mentioned was that he used an additive to the poly which, =in this country at least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd variation =on the spelling which sounds the same.Anyone know anything about these additives, which are supposed to =improve the plastic flow of the varnish and minimise blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell me what to do about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly =skite about their very infrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I =mean, it's an infrequent occasion of annoyance, but real all the same! =:'- (Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01BFCBB2.C91FE0B0 There is nothing you can do about them.= at them when they do their silly dance :-) before the =match. Paul Retired) ----- Original Message ----- petermckean Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 = AM annoyance (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor = refinished with polyurethane in the last few days. The contractor did = good job; one thing he mentioned was that he used an additive to the = which, in this country at least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd = on the spelling which sounds the same.Anyone know anything about these = blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell me what to do = Kiwis who unfailingly skite about their very infrequent Rugby = Australia. I mean, it's an infrequent occasion of annoyance, but real = same! :'-(Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01BFCBB2.C91FE0B0-- from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Jun 1 09:17:53 2000 e51EHq113666 KAA11422; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Subject: "Force" taper Could someone, pretty please, tell me where I can find the taper for the"Force" everyone seems so excited about (or email me the measurements)?Is it the same as Cattanach's measurements of the PHY para15 posted inthe Hexrod archive?Many thanks, dws. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jun 1 09:21:25 2000 e51ELP114107 Subject: BBFR rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Listers, Please answer me off list as to your feelings and experiences with the magazine as I am working on something here I need your help with. Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jun 1 09:23:43 2000 e51ENg114423 Subject: Re: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,Penetrol is something I use quite often in the summer to give more open time to oil base finishes. Floetrol is used in water based finishes to give the same results. Make sure you get the right one and add it slowly and strain it also.Bret from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 1 09:23:57 2000 e51ENv114484 JAA22760 ESMTP; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:23:45 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) "'earsdws@duke.edu'" Subject: RE: "Force" taper which taper in his book is the force? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: David W. Smith, Ph.D.[SMTP:earsdws@duke.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 7:21 AM Subject: "Force" taper Could someone, pretty please, tell me where I can find the taper for the"Force" everyone seems so excited about (or email me themeasurements)?Is it the same as Cattanach's measurements of the PHY para15 posted inthe Hexrod archive?Many thanks, dws. from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Jun 1 09:26:11 2000 e51EQA114753 Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) This is a case where an understanding of stress curves would be oftremendousbenefit. Using a stress curve, specify the weight line you want keeping thestress values the same. The result will be changed taper diameters for your line.The reality is though, if you are just trying to go down to a 4 wt. line from the 5 wt.tip there won't be much difference. The biggest changes will be at the mid and butt of the rod.Darryl Darryl - in your original post about the tight loop tip design you indicated it was for a 5 wt line. How would you recommend proceeding to adapt it to a different line weight? I searched the archive but didn't see anything there on how to modify the taper for lighter lines. I am interested in trying it on my next rod which I think will be the PHY Perfectionist. Your dimensions don't look too far off the Maurerversion, though it is a 4 wt and I'm not sure if I should use them "as is" or do some adjustment - perhaps through Hexrod? from jczimny@dol.net Thu Jun 1 09:37:09 2000 e51Eb9115711 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Rodmakers Subject: Re: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance boundary="------------04C3E4C66DF1B9B8EEDB9F32" --------------04C3E4C66DF1B9B8EEDB9F32 Penetrol is a common brand.John Z "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Flow additives (Flotrol, is one brand name, I believe), permit more"leveling" of the paint finish by slowing drying time. For floors orsurfaces with very large areas where there is concern over keeping a"wet edge," it works well to prevent/minimize the "dragging" causedwhen you run your wet brush over an adjacent area of paint that haspartially dried. I've used it for painting cabinets: I liked it onthe tops, but not on the vertical surfaces where I thought it mighthave caused runs.dws. petermckean wrote: (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished withpolyurethane in the last few days. The contractor did a pretty goodjob; one thing he mentioned was that he used an additive to the polywhich, in this country at least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierdvariation on the spelling which sounds the same.Anyone know anythingabout these additives, which are supposed to improve the plasticflow of the varnish and minimise blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell mewhat to do about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly skite about their veryinfrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I mean, it's aninfrequent occasion of annoyance, but real all the same! :'- (Peter --------------04C3E4C66DF1B9B8EEDB9F32 Penetrol is a common brand.John Z"David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote:Flow additives (Flotrol, is one brand name, I believe), keeping a "wet edge," it works well to prevent/minimize the "dragging"caused when you run your wet brush over an adjacent area of paint that liked it on the tops, but not on the vertical surfaces where I thoughtit might have caused runs.dws.petermckean wrote: (1)I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished with polyurethanein the last few days. The contractor did a pretty good job; one thing hementioned was that he used an additive to the poly which, in this countryat least, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd variation on the spellingwhich sounds the same.Anyone know anything about these additives, whichare supposed to improve the plastic flow of the varnish and minimiseblemishes?(2)Can anyone tell me what to do about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly skiteabout their very infrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I mean, it'san infrequent occasion of annoyance, but real all the same! :'- (Peter --------------04C3E4C66DF1B9B8EEDB9F32-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Jun 1 10:00:36 2000 e51F0Z117334 KAA05219 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:00:36 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA02219 for Subject: Re: "Force" taper "The Force" is in Jerry Foster's Rodmakers taper archive, at http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/cattanach/catt8062.html There is also a 3-piece version. I built the 2-piece version a couple years ago and mine came out a 7-wt not a 6. I guess I'm not a paraholic (yet). I can cast a long line withThe Force, but I can't put the fly where I want it. Don't castit toward anything breakable. Tie on a beadhead and it will breakglass at 50ft. Maybe that's why Wayne called it "The Force".......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote: Could someone, pretty please, tell me where I can find the taper for the"Force" everyone seems so excited about (or email me themeasurements)?Is it the same as Cattanach's measurements of the PHY para15 posted inthe Hexrod archive?Many thanks, dws. from jcollier@siu.edu Thu Jun 1 10:31:03 2000 e51FV2119165 Subject: Waterstones Hey guys, I'm planning my first rod and I'm running into a problem: myplane is "digging in" at the nodes. I think i need to sharpen my blade up abit more.? Where is a good source for sharpening supplies, specificallywaterstones in the 6000 grit range. Thanks J. Collier from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Jun 1 10:52:28 2000 e51FqR120181 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Waterstones Importance: Normal Lee Valley Tools offers a sharpening kit containing a combination waterstone (8000/1200) a sharpening jig and angle setting contraption. Topquality and a very good deal. http://www.leevalley.com/woodwork/wood.htm Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: Waterstones Hey guys, I'm planning my first rod and I'm running into aproblem: myplane is "digging in" at the nodes. I think i need tosharpen my blade up abit more.? Where is a good source for sharpening supplies,specificallywaterstones in the 6000 grit range. ThanksJ. Collier from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Jun 1 12:55:05 2000 e51Ht4G24123 Subject: Re: paraholic F1A2C73685E77F24CD686EFF" --------------F1A2C73685E77F24CD686EFF I second You on this one, Carsten...:-) Last night I was out fishing my Midge. It happen to be one of the firstnight with BIG 3 cmmonster Caddis flies hatching. I went to my favorite spot, where thereis a fast run in the stream,and under the trees the trout where feeding. The Midge performedexcellent, and I could placethe fly with great accuracy, tight or open loop.What a thrill to playthe trout in the steam with thisrod..........................:-))) regardsdanny Carsten Jorgensen wrote: I have noticed many rodmakers and fishermen have started theircarreer with one of the faster cane rods, like the Sir D. I think itisbecause of its likeliness to pla..... rods, action vise. It is alsoa very easy rod to use. Everybody can make it cast beatiful. Come wisdom and experience, most, I think, try a parabolic rod,and Lo, nothing else will do afterwards. The frase paraholic speaks As for tight loops: I came back half an hour ago from an evening offishing,using a Perfectionist (and Yes, its a PHY rod) If the loops gets anytighter, there wont be any room for the hook! the Force: I have one myself, I use it for all kinds of fishing:'dry, wet nymph, streamers. It its the rod for all times. As far as Iseeit, its a mixture of the two tips for the original Para 15. Waynereallymade a gem with this one. I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go for the secondbest, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tell my clients,lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what a parabolic rod cando. These days I dont make anything else. Why should I? regards,Carsten --------------F1A2C73685E77F24CD686EFF I second You on this one, Carsten...:-) Last night I was out fishing my Midge. It happen to be one of the firstnight with BIG 3 cmmonster Caddis flies hatching. I went to my favorite spot, where thereis a fast run in the stream,and under the trees the trout where feeding. The Midge performedexcellent,and I could placethe fly with great accuracy, tight or open loop.What a thrill to playthe trout in the steam with thisrod..........................:-))) regardsdanny Carsten Jørgensen wrote: I have noticedmany rodmakers and fishermen have started theircarreer with one of the faster cane rods, like the SirD. I think it isbecause of its likeliness to pla..... rods, action vise.It is alsoa very easy rod to use. Everybody can make it castbeatiful. Come wisdom and experience, most, I think, try aparabolicrod,and Lo, nothing else will do afterwards. The fraseparaholicspeaks As for tight loops: I came back half an hour ago froman evening of fishing,using a Perfectionist (and Yes, its a PHY rod) If theloops gets anytighter, there wont be any room for the hook! the Force: I have one myself, I use it for all kinds offishing:'dry, wet nymph, streamers. It its the rod for all times.As far as I seeit, its a mixture of the two tips for the original Para15. Wayne reallymade a gem with this one. I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go best, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tellmy clients, lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what aparabolicrod cando. These days I dont make anything else. Why shouldI? regards,Carsten --------------F1A2C73685E77F24CD686EFF-- from mep@mint.net Thu Jun 1 13:58:38 2000 e51IwbG26720 Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:58:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Waterstones Take less of a bite. I used to use waterstones but now use diamondcompound anda leather belt attached to a small upright delta sander. You hold the blade afew degrees steeper than the bevel and let the leather strop the edge likeyouwould a straight razor. Takes thirty seconds. I do it after a medium gritsharpening stone. A sharper blade you will not see! Much cheaper and fasterthana stone. MSC has the compound. I'm still on my first tube six years later. Sosharp you can shave with it! Mike John Collier wrote: Hey guys, I'm planning my first rod and I'm running into a problem: myplane is "digging in" at the nodes. I think i need to sharpen my blade up abit more.? Where is a good source for sharpening supplies, specificallywaterstones in the 6000 grit range. ThanksJ. Collier from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Jun 1 15:00:39 2000 e51K0bG28494 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA19800; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:00:27 +1200 Subject: Re: paraholism (mature passion) Ralph , I think this taper is fairly wide in terms of line weights. I have one anduse it as both a #4 and # 5 and it seems to me to handle both very well. Afriend of mine who I built one for uses it as a #3 rod. He is a professionalguide and casting instructer and a far better caster then me. regards Ian Kearney . t 11:36 PM 31/05/00 -0400, Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Darryl - in your original post about the tight loop tip design youindicated it was for a 5 wt line. How would you recommend proceeding toadapt it to a different line weight? I searched the archive but didn't seeanything there on how to modify the taper for lighter lines. I aminterested in trying it on my next rod which I think will be the PHYPerfectionist. Your dimensions don't look too far off the Maurerversion, though it is a 4 wt and I'm not sure if I should use them "as is"or do some adjustment - perhaps through Hexrod? thanks - mac DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: As long as we are confessing our sins....I have been experimenting with parabolics for a couple months, and yes, Iwill agree with you. It is an action that most plastic rod people will notlike, and it goes against the conventional wisdom that faster rods castfarther. The only problem that I have with most current parabolic tapers isthat they were designed as a wet fly or nymphing rod. There is no reason aparabolic can't be a dry fly action also.A parabolic with a tight loop tip design?...A quad parabolic with a tight loop tip?...Darryl from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jun 1 15:32:58 2000 e51KWvG29366 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Waterstones I have a Tormek sharpener with a leather stroping wheel. I agree, it is scary sharp in no time. Chris Bogart's site has some more info on the leather wheel idea, ala Tom S. Fantastic stuff.Regards,Bob At 02:57 PM 6/1/00 -0400, you wrote:Take less of a bite. I used to use waterstones but now use diamond compound anda leather belt attached to a small upright delta sander. You hold the blade afew degrees steeper than the bevel and let the leather strop the edge likeyouwould a straight razor. Takes thirty seconds. I do it after a medium gritsharpening stone. A sharper blade you will not see! Much cheaper and faster thana stone. MSC has the compound. I'm still on my first tube six years later. Sosharp you can shave with it! Mike John Collier wrote: Hey guys, I'm planning my first rod and I'm running into a problem: myplane is "digging in" at the nodes. I think i need to sharpen my blade up abit more.? Where is a good source for sharpening supplies, specificallywaterstones in the 6000 grit range. ThanksJ. Collier Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Thu Jun 1 17:09:16 2000 e51M9FG02421 Subject: Re: paraholic boundary="------------C86BB673842414C2B66483A8" --------------C86BB673842414C2B66483A8 Dear Carsten,Very well put. I received a Per Brandin quad version of the"Perfectionist" this spring and have not been able to put it down. Itdoes it all. Rich Carsten Jorgensen wrote: I have noticed many rodmakers and fishermen have started theircarreer with one of the faster cane rods, like the Sir D. I think itisbecause of its likeliness to pla..... rods, action vise. It is alsoa very easy rod to use. Everybody can make it cast beatiful. Come wisdom and experience, most, I think, try a parabolic rod,and Lo, nothing else will do afterwards. The frase paraholic speaks As for tight loops: I came back half an hour ago from an evening offishing,using a Perfectionist (and Yes, its a PHY rod) If the loops gets anytighter, there wont be any room for the hook! the Force: I have one myself, I use it for all kinds of fishing:'dry, wet nymph, streamers. It its the rod for all times. As far as Iseeit, its a mixture of the two tips for the original Para 15. Waynereallymade a gem with this one. I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go for the secondbest, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tell my clients,lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what a parabolic rod cando. These days I dont make anything else. Why should I? regards,Carsten --------------C86BB673842414C2B66483A8 Dear Carsten, "Perfectionist" RichCarsten Jørgensen wrote: I have noticed manyrodmakers and fishermen have started theircarreer with one of the faster cane rods, like the SirD. I think it isbecause of its likeliness to pla..... rods, action vise.It is alsoa very easy rod to use. Everybody can make it castbeatiful.Come wisdom and experience, most, I think, try aparabolicrod,and Lo, nothing else will do afterwards. The fraseparaholicspeaks As for tight loops: I came back half an hour ago froman evening of fishing,using a Perfectionist (and Yes, its a PHY rod) If theloops gets anytighter, there wont be any room for the hook!the Force: I have one myself, I use it for all kinds offishing:'dry, wet nymph, streamers. It its the rod for all times.As far as I seeit, its a mixture of the two tips for the original Para15. Wayne reallymade a gem with this one.I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go best, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tellmy clients, lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what aparabolicrod cando. These days I dont make anything else. Why shouldI?regards,Carsten --------------C86BB673842414C2B66483A8-- from tcreech@neo.rr.com Thu Jun 1 17:48:01 2000 e51Mm0G03863 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFCBF9.C3D9F680" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFCBF9.C3D9F680 ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFCBF9.C3D9F680 unsubscribe ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BFCBF9.C3D9F680-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jun 1 17:55:19 2000 e51MtJG04170 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AB1826C00104; Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:00:40 -0400 Subject: Silk Line Contest Abbreviated All,I must leave for Korea on 6/3, so I will draw the winner late on6/2, but can't mail the line off unitl I return on 6/12.Interestingly, there have not been many answers submitted, despite,as someone pointed out, the answer appearing in the silk line article onthe webpage.See you in Grayrock.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jun 1 18:06:42 2000 e51N6fG04517 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: paraholic e51N6gG04518 Rich:Wow. You are one lucky man to own such a nice rod. When you say Per's version of a PHY, is it the same dimensions or is it converted by the factor of .092 (or whatever)? Can you tell?Does my question make sense? I am just wondering because I know that Sir D has had luck making quads with the same dimensions as hex tapers (if I am correct from my understanding of his posts). I am going to be making a hex Sir D on the hand mill this week (Hi Ed, didn't forget you buddy), and I was thinking about making a quad version for myself and just keeping the same settings. I realize that I will probably have a slightly heavier rod, maybe a 5 wt.Comments?Thanks,Bob At 06:15 PM 6/1/00 -0700, you wrote:Dear Carsten,Very well put. I received a Per Brandin quad version of the "Perfectionist" this spring and have not been able to put it down. It does it all. Rich Carsten Jorgensen wrote:I have noticed many rodmakers and fishermen have started theircarreer with one of the faster cane rods, like the Sir D. I think it isbecause of its likeliness to pla..... rods, action vise. It is alsoa very easy rod to use. Everybody can make it cast beatiful. Come wisdom and experience, most, I think, try a parabolic rod,and Lo, nothing else will do afterwards. The frase paraholic speaks As for tight loops: I came back half an hour ago from an evening offishing,using a Perfectionist (and Yes, its a PHY rod) If the loops gets anytighter, there wont be any room for the hook! the Force: I have one myself, I use it for all kinds of fishing:'dry, wet nymph, streamers. It its the rod for all times. As far as I seeit, its a mixture of the two tips for the original Para 15. Wayne reallymade a gem with this one. I know, I know, I am a paraholic. But honestly, why go for the secondbest, if one can have the real thing? Thats what I tell my clients, lettingthem try a rod, and they all are amazed of what a parabolic rod cando. These days I dont make anything else. Why should I? regards,Carsten Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fgahagan@mindspring.com Thu Jun 1 18:38:46 2000 e51NcjG05244 Subject: Re: unsubscribe boundary="------------EA729E92C0CD261DAB46847A" --------------EA729E92C0CD261DAB46847A unsubscribe --------------EA729E92C0CD261DAB46847A --------------EA729E92C0CD261DAB46847A-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jun 1 19:27:11 2000 e520RAG05899 Subject: Re: Waterstones In a message dated 6/1/0 3:31:49 PM, jcollier@siu.edu writes: In addition to plane sharpness, I would also take a close look at the nodes that are tearing out. Look to see if the cane fibers dip into the strip. If so, you should have straightened the node better. This is one of the things you can only learn by experience. You may be able to solve the problem by planing the area around the node in the opposite direction. If that fails and you have a scraper plane, use it on the node area. If all else fails, use a file. If your problems are on one side of the strip, clean it up by one of the above methods, make sure the edges are good and the angle correct, and then do all the planing on the other side of the strip. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Jun 1 20:07:53 2000 e5217nG06554 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:58:49 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: RE: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance Hi Pete,I must confess that both Ian's skiting and condolences werewasted on me. I know more about brain surgery than I do about sport and Ifind the whole business less interesting than a graphite rod. Who are theseteams? What is rugby? Who really cares anyway? Of course this attitudecompletely mystifies Tony and is the real reason for his drinking problem.It's all my fault. Mike ps. I have to be nice to Ian too so he'll let me visit when I'm inNewZealand later this year. -Original Message----- Subject: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished with polyurethanein the last few days. The contractor did a pretty good job; one thing hementioned was that he used an additive to the poly which, in this country atleast, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd variation on the spelling whichsounds the same.Anyone know anything about these additives, which are supposed to improvethe plastic flow of the varnish and minimise blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell me what to do about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly skiteabout their very infrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I mean, it's aninfrequent occasion of annoyance, but real all the same! :'- (Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jun 1 22:23:53 2000 e523NnG08824 Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:23:39 +0800 Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:23:37 +0800 Subject: RE: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance "'RODMAKERS'" Thanks.. *MATE*!.......:-) Tony At 08:58 AM 6/2/00 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Hi Pete,I must confess that both Ian's skiting and condolences werewasted on me. I know more about brain surgery than I do about sport and Ifind the whole business less interesting than a graphite rod. Who are theseteams? What is rugby? Who really cares anyway? Of course this attitudecompletely mystifies Tony and is the real reason for his drinking problem.It's all my fault. Mike ps. I have to be nice to Ian too so he'll let me visit when I'm inNewZealand later this year. -Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2000 18:05 Subject: (1) poly varnish (2) annoyance (1) I had a wooden parquetry floor sanded and refinished with polyurethanein the last few days. The contractor did a pretty good job; one thing hementioned was that he used an additive to the poly which, in this country atleast, is called "Flow Add", or some wierd variation on the spelling whichsounds the same.Anyone know anything about these additives, which are supposed toimprovethe plastic flow of the varnish and minimise blemishes?(2) Can anyone tell me what to do about bloody Kiwis who unfailingly skiteabout their very infrequent Rugby victories over Australia. I mean, it's aninfrequent occasion of annoyance, but real all the same! :'- (Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from stpete@netten.net Thu Jun 1 22:57:40 2000 e523vdG09414 Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:53:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Silk Line Contest Abbreviated I want you all to know that I know the answer to this question and haverefrained from entering the contest since I won the first contest. Thecontest which Reed is running is really an excellent opportunity to win agreat silk line and his website has some very interesting articles to boot.Thanks again, Reed. Rick C. reed curry wrote: All,I must leave for Korea on 6/3, so I will draw the winner late on6/2, but can't mail the line off unitl I return on 6/12.Interestingly, there have not been many answers submitted, despite,as someone pointed out, the answer appearing in the silk line article onthe webpage.See you in Grayrock.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jun 1 23:15:11 2000 e524F8G09722 Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:15:26 +0800 Subject: Re: Silk Line Contest Abbreviated I agree,Reeds is a very good site to check out on a regular basis. Very good articles. Tony At 10:55 PM 6/1/00 -0500, Rick Crenshaw wrote:I want you all to know that I know the answer to this question and haverefrained from entering the contest since I won the first contest. Thecontest which Reed is running is really an excellent opportunity to win agreat silk line and his website has some very interesting articles to boot.Thanks again, Reed. Rick C. reed curry wrote: All,I must leave for Korea on 6/3, so I will draw the winner late on6/2, but can't mail the line off unitl I return on 6/12.Interestingly, there have not been many answers submitted, despite,as someone pointed out, the answer appearing in the silk line article onthe webpage.See you in Grayrock.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 2 00:42:32 2000 e525gUG11723 Subject: Sir D Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFCCA8.77B9CAA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFCCA8.77B9CAA0 Please, what is a "Sir D"? Peter ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFCCA8.77B9CAA0 Please, what is a "SirD"? Peter ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFCCA8.77B9CAA0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 2 05:46:56 2000 e52AkrG18447 Subject: Sir D Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCCD2.FE6FC700" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCCD2.FE6FC700 It's all very confusing, Tony; Poms knight people, Kiwis claim to win =football games, WC doesn't mean either "Winston Churchill" or "water =closet" - I mean, is this or is it not the absolutely delightful 7'0" 4 =weight I built from Wayne Cattanach's book, which is my equal favourite =rod of all time, along with the 8'0" 5 weight from Wayne Cattanach's =book, which I gather is something similar to the "Force", which is the =only rod with which I can cast with people watching and not feel =embarrassed?The 4 weight I named the "Poodle" after my wife's dog Meg, who is , like =the rod, short, brown, and delightful.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCCD2.FE6FC700 It's all very confusing, Tony; Poms = Kiwis claim to win football games, WC doesn't mean either "Winston = "water closet" - I mean, is this or is it not the absolutely delightful = weight I built from Wayne Cattanach's book, which is my equal favourite = all time, along with the 8'0" 5 weight from Wayne Cattanach's book, = gather is something similar to the "Force", which is the only rod with = can cast with people watching and not feel embarrassed?The 4 weight I named the "Poodle" after= dog Meg, who is , like the rod, short, brown, and =delightful.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCCD2.FE6FC700-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 2 05:49:44 2000 e52AngG18570 Subject: Really stupid questions Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFCCD3.6437AF80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFCCD3.6437AF80 While I am on the really stupid question thing, WHY is it that when I =build Wayne Cattanach's tapers I always have 5" left over? Is it just =me, or is there actually some arcane reason for this ?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFCCD3.6437AF80 While I am on the really stupid = is it that when I build Wayne Cattanach's tapers I always have 5" left = it just me, or is there actually some arcane reason for this =?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFCCD3.6437AF80-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 2 06:50:43 2000 e52BofG19814 Subject: The Force Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFCCDB.E7556260" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFCCDB.E7556260 The message has no relevance to the name, but anyone who uses a quote = from Star Wars as a signature has, like me, to love the name.The first rod I ever made was a Dickerson 7613, with one of your =ferrules (and all associated hardware) and apart from the fact that I =sort of stuffed up the varnish, it is a lovely rod to use - powerful =rather than delicate, but there is not really any situation where it is =not the rod to use. I rather fancy that that may be the enduring feature =of the Dickersons, despite the fact that they are not so very popular =with the members of this list - that they are never the wrong rod!As I have said to you, though not on the list I think, I am making a =Guide Special for my son Thomas, and I have the butt and one tip planed =and ready to glue. Looks good so far, if what you want is sheer grunt!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFCCDB.E7556260 The message has no relevance to the = anyone who uses a quote from Star Wars as a signature has, like me, to = name.The first rod I ever made was a = with one of your ferrules (and all associated hardware) and apart from = that I sort of stuffed up the varnish, it is a lovely rod to use - = rather than delicate, but there is not really any situation where it is = the rod to use. I rather fancy that that may be the enduring = Dickersons, despite the fact that they are not so very popular with the = of this list - that they are never the wrong rod!As I have said to you, though not on = think, I am making a Guide Special for my son Thomas, and I have the = one tip planed and ready to glue. Looks good so far, if what you want is = grunt!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFCCDB.E7556260-- from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Jun 2 07:59:09 2000 e52Cx8G21077; Subject: Re: Sir D rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu HI peter and all, I just made a SIR D ,i like it a lot . Made it for a specific reason to fish the sulfur hatch on spring creek. Very fast rising (feeding TROUT) and it worked well. Thanks for sharing it with us WAYNE. Tom from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jun 2 08:55:37 2000 e52DtYG22763 Subject: Haka I deleted the message and can't remember who posted it but Ian's kindreminder to us all that the Kiwi's won a rugby match elicited a commentrelating to NZ's strange but effective warrior dance called the Haka (sp?).I've been on the recieving end of this pagan ritual and I can say it doesindeed put the wind up you especially as most of their players are generaly20 *fit* pound heavier than you are and you know that in about 60 secondsat least one of them will be trying to kill you.I used to know what the litteny was in English but the gist of it is theyare going to kill you in several diffent ways all at the same time, thenrip your lungs out and jump on them then eat your liver then send theremains back in a small box, a large one wont be required. Pretty antisocial to my way of thinking. Anyhow this has reminded me of that delightful Kiwi girl who found her wayinadvertantly onto the list and thought the best way of getting off it wasto attempt to widen our collective vocabulary, mostly with blue language.?I believe she attended a convent?Now there was someone right into Hakas. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jun 2 09:46:37 2000 e52EkaG24296 Subject: Re: Sir D Please, what is a "Sir D"? A Sir D is Wayne Cattanach's 7' 0" 4 weight from his book. I had thegreat fortune to pick this taper as the 3rd rod I made. I raved about itso much on this list, and at the same time a chap I helped who was from England was so grateful he "knighted" me Sir Darryl of the List.Wayne started calling that taper the Sir Darryl Favorite. It got shortenedto the Sir D. I have done some minor modifications to the tip so someothers have started calling the tip modified taper the Sir D, but Iconsider the mods to be so minor that it is still the same taper. WC is of course, shorthand for Wayne Cattanach.Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jun 2 09:53:15 2000 e52ErEG24536 Subject: Re: Really stupid questions While I am on the really stupid question thing, WHY is it that when I build Wayne Cattanach's tapers I always have 5" left over? Is it just me, or is there actually some arcane reason for this ? Some of the tapers in Wayne's book, when the ferrule doesn't fallexactly at a 5" increment, there is an overlap at the stations on eitherside. For instance, if a ferrule will fall at 42" the taper is listed from0 to 45" for the tip and 40" to 84" inches for the butt. Giving you theseeming 5" length difference.Darryl from dhaftel@att.com Fri Jun 2 10:47:35 2000 e52FlUG26159 LAA22046 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) Subject: As long as we're asking stupid questions... Here's one. I'm in the process of deciding which rod to make for a friend (it's always afriend) who is an extreme novice caster. He wants something that he canuse it would be an eight foot seven weight, two piece rod. I'm just wonderingif it should be a Thramer 87 PX or a Dickerson 8015. Would it be asking too much of a novice to learn to cast a parabolic rod (AJThramer's taper) if he doesn't know any other way? Should I just go withthe Dickerson? What do you think? TIA, Dennis from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Jun 2 11:00:52 2000 e52G0pG26732 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:00:51 +0200 Subject: Sv: As long as we're asking stupid questions... e52G0qG26733 Dennis Go for the parabolic rod. If Your friend doesn't know how to cast,there will be nothing to un-learn. regards,Carsten ----- Oprindelig meddelelse ----- Fra: Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO Til: 'Rodmakers' Sendt: 02. juni 2000 17:47Emne: As long as we're asking stupid questions... Here's one. I'm in the process of deciding which rod to make for a friend (it's always afriend) who is an extreme novice caster. He wants something that he canuse thatit would be an eight foot seven weight, two piece rod. I'm just wonderingif it should be a Thramer 87 PX or a Dickerson 8015. Would it be asking too much of a novice to learn to cast a parabolic rod (AJThramer's taper) if he doesn't know any other way? Should I just go withthe Dickerson? What do you think? TIA, Dennis from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Jun 2 11:37:03 2000 e52Gb2G27876 MAA14378; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Subject: a binding question Group,Based on some previous comments, I am planning on binding up someblanksthis weekend with Gorilla glue (polyurethane). I also recall sometime ago adiscussion of binding with monofilament fishing line. Anyone out there evertry this (monofilament and/or polyurethane?)?Thoughts, dws. from anglport@con2.com Fri Jun 2 13:57:09 2000 e52Iv9G02766 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A2C2BF902AA; Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:53:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Haka Tony,Ahhh, the good ole days.....I believe it was Maurice Chevallier in Gigi:"Yes, I remember it well!" Art At 10:06 PM 06/02/2000 +0800, Tony Young wrote:I deleted the message and can't remember who posted it but Ian's kindreminder to us all that the Kiwi's won a rugby match elicited a commentrelating to NZ's strange but effective warrior dance called the Haka (sp?).I've been on the recieving end of this pagan ritual and I can say it doesindeed put the wind up you especially as most of their players are generaly20 *fit* pound heavier than you are and you know that in about 60 secondsat least one of them will be trying to kill you.I used to know what the litteny was in English but the gist of it is theyare going to kill you in several diffent ways all at the same time, thenrip your lungs out and jump on them then eat your liver then send theremains back in a small box, a large one wont be required. Pretty antisocial to my way of thinking. Anyhow this has reminded me of that delightful Kiwi girl who found her wayinadvertantly onto the list and thought the best way of getting off it wasto attempt to widen our collective vocabulary, mostly with blue language.?I believe she attended a convent?Now there was someone right into Hakas. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Fri Jun 2 13:59:14 2000 e52IxDG03047 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A345C0D02AA; Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:56:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Sir D Hey, didn't Jack Paar say WC stood for wayside chapel? ;-)Art At 10:46 AM 06/02/2000 EDT, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Please, what is a "Sir D"? A Sir D is Wayne Cattanach's 7' 0" 4 weight from his book. I had thegreat fortune to pick this taper as the 3rd rod I made. I raved about itso much on this list, and at the same time a chap I helped who was from England was so grateful he "knighted" me Sir Darryl of the List.Wayne started calling that taper the Sir Darryl Favorite. It got shortenedto the Sir D. I have done some minor modifications to the tip so someothers have started calling the tip modified taper the Sir D, but Iconsider the mods to be so minor that it is still the same taper. WC is of course, shorthand for Wayne Cattanach.Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 2 14:38:35 2000 e52JcYG04817 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Hardy Perfect Importance: Normal Sorry to use up bandwidth but I have a brand new, in-the-box Hardy Perfect3 1/8" spool I'd like to trade for a good condition 3 3/8 " Hardy Perfectspool. Since Hardy Perfects match a cane rod so well, I suspect you guyshave a few lying around. Please contact me off list if interested. Richard from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Jun 2 14:51:03 2000 e52Jp1G05331 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA09242; Sat, 3 Jun 2000 07:50:54 +1200 Subject: Re: a binding question David, I tried the monofilament fishing line for binding. I seemed to get a lotmore twist in the section then I normally do. ( I use an Tom S. typebinder). I got the feeling that strech in the nylon exerted some forces onthe section that my normal cotton thread did not. I guess that with some experimentation with tension , line weight etc thenylon might work well but I reverted to using cotton again. Ian Kearney At 12:40 PM 2/06/00 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Group,Based on some previous comments, I am planning on binding up someblanksthis weekend with Gorilla glue (polyurethane). I also recall sometime ago adiscussion of binding with monofilament fishing line. Anyone out there evertry this (monofilament and/or polyurethane?)?Thoughts, dws. from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jun 2 16:57:24 2000 e52LvNG09127 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:44:07 -0500 Subject: Re: As long as we're asking stupid questions... I learned on a Young, at 18, so why not ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: As long as we're asking stupid questions... Here's one. I'm in the process of deciding which rod to make for a friend (it's alwaysafriend) who is an extreme novice caster. He wants something that he canuse thatit would be an eight foot seven weight, two piece rod. I'm just wonderingif it should be a Thramer 87 PX or a Dickerson 8015. Would it be asking too much of a novice to learn to cast a parabolic rod(AJThramer's taper) if he doesn't know any other way? Should I just go withthe Dickerson? What do you think? TIA, Dennis from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Jun 2 17:54:49 2000 e52MsmG10245 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id SAA15509 for Subject: Re: The Force boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BFCD8D.16C11A60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BFCD8D.16C11A60 At the time the name seemed appropiate - it was the summer of the =movie - and two boy were not only enchanted to learn the art of =flyfishing but also fighting the forces of evil when not on the stream. =It was sort of magical - staying at the Chicken Coop - which once =housed the feathers used by Hartman's fly shop in Lovells - just North =and east of Grayrock. Sam was tying flies and Larry was tying his famous =mice - and I was sort of hanging out. The boys were Sam's son Toni and =my son Matt - today it seems as if it were only yesterday - but like all =else time seems to just keep marching on. Today the boys are men and =hopefully still fighting the forces of evil in their lives. May the = ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BFCD8D.16C11A60 = of flyfishing but also fighting the forces of evil when not on the = Grayrock. Sam was tying flies and Larry was tying his famous mice - and = sort of hanging out. The boys were Sam's son Toni and my son Matt - = seems as if it were only yesterday - but like all else time seems to = marching on. Today the boys are men and hopefully still fighting the = ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BFCD8D.16C11A60-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jun 2 18:21:53 2000 e52NLqG10755 Subject: Sherman Oaks,CA I have to fly out to Sherman Oaks on the 17th of this month. Is anyone close to there that is on the list?Bret from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 2 18:33:42 2000 e52NXdG11027 Subject: Tony Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCD3E.1B05E1E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCD3E.1B05E1E0 The rod I sent you to critique was a 3-piece 8'0" Jim Payne for 6 weight =(out of Jack Howell's book). It is a good rod, especially after I =stripped it right back and re-finished it , guides and all, for cosmetic =reasons; but even at risk of seeming to be sucking up to the PHY Fan =Club as here constituted, it doesn't cast as well as the 7'6" modified =Para 15 from Wayne Cattanach. It may shade it a tad in sheer distance, =but overall it's not in the hunt!The Guide Special probably requires a 16/64 ferrule, though you seemed =to feel that a step-down to 15/64 to the tip may be an advantage. =Whatever you think. Only need the ferrule, and don't bust a gut.Where are you off to? have a good one.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCD3E.1B05E1E0 = 8'0" Jim Payne for 6 weight (out of Jack Howell's book). It is a good = especially after I stripped it right back and re-finished it , guides = Fan Club as here constituted, it doesn't cast as well as the 7'6" = 15 from Wayne Cattanach. It may shade it a tad in sheer distance, but = it's not in the hunt!The Guide Special probably requires a = ferrule, though you seemed to feel that a step-down to 15/64 to the tip = an advantage. Whatever you think. Only need the ferrule, and don't bust = gut.Where are you off to? have a good =one.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFCD3E.1B05E1E0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 2 18:38:05 2000 e52Nc2G11205 Subject: Tony's Haka Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD3E.B970B120" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD3E.B970B120 I used play Rugby, mainly League, but also for a time Rugby Union in a =competition which included a team with a very high proportion of NZ =meatworkers.It was like playing football against 15 brown, 100m.p.h. refrigerators!No wonder the bumper sticker says that "To play Rugby you need leather =balls".Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD3E.B970B120 I used play Rugby, mainly League, but = time Rugby Union in a competition which included a team with a very high = proportion of NZ meatworkers.It was like playing football against 15 = 100m.p.h. refrigerators!No wonder the bumper sticker saysthat = Rugby you need leather balls".Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD3E.B970B120-- from oakmere@carol.net Fri Jun 2 18:57:38 2000 e52NvbG11722 Subject: RE: Advice Hi Folks: Picked up a Granger Special 7&1/2 ft, 3 piece, 4wt with original tube forredoing. The NS ferrules cleaned up beautifully. It has a shortened tipwhich needs attention. The first problem is that the splines have openedover about 4 to 5 inches in the butt section right above the GrangerSpecial signature. They are not all open, but just a split in the middle. Ineed some advice on what glue should I use, what is the best way to securethe part of the butt that is not split (on either side of the split), andhow to (as best possible) clean the exposed surfaces and insert new glue?The rod has been completely stripped as the cork handle was "shot". I doplan to wrap the section area after gluing. For some reason, the mid andtip sections are quite straight, but the butt has some curvature which Ihave started to remove by heating and gentle bending by hand. Should Ifinish the straighting before gluing. Any advice or recommendations fromthe list are appreciated. Want to put this "puppy" back in tip top shape. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PAfwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Jun 2 19:09:48 2000 e5309lG11973 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ADD53D420068; Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:14:13 -0400 Subject: Contest Winner - Ralph Mackenzie All,Ralph Mackenzie was the winner of the Newton Streamline Silk Line.He, along with others, was able to identify Frederic Halford as thefirst designer of a tapered silk fly line. Ralph's name was chosen atrandom from the correct answers.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Jun 2 19:20:34 2000 e530KWG12253 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id MAA04633 for ;Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:20:28 +1200 Subject: Re:National Geographic , October 1980 I am still trying to think of the right response to Peter and Tony'scomments on our National dance and religion( rugby). I hope to respond withsome clever witty comments at some stage in the future !! However I went to the local "second hand book fair " this morning wherethere are several hundred thousand used books for sale. I was looking forfishing books of which there were only a couple. There were however several thousand National Geographic magazine's which Isorted through and managed to find 6 copies of the October 1980 editioncontaining the article on Bamboo by Luis Marden . If anyone would like one of these they can have them for the cost , 25centsNZ ( presently about 12c US and going down by the hour), plus postage. Firstin first served. regards Ian Kearney from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jun 2 19:40:21 2000 e530eLG12629 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:27:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Advice Many are far more experienced in such repairs than I. My experience hasbeento spread all the sections as far apart as possible, spray with a mist ofwater, and wipe clean. Apply ProBond poly-u glue to all areas, wipe excess,and bind in both directions with cotton cord. Continue to wipe away excessglue until it stops oozing out, and allow to sit over night. Remove cord,and lightly scrape. In 24 hours, you can finish cleaning and prepare forfinal work. I've flexed a broken casting rod pretty hard, that was fractured mid sectionof the butt, and it shows no signs of where the break was ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Advice Hi Folks: Picked up a Granger Special 7&1/2 ft, 3 piece, 4wt with original tube forredoing. The NS ferrules cleaned up beautifully. It has a shortened tipwhich needs attention. The first problem is that the splines have openedover about 4 to 5 inches in the butt section right above the GrangerSpecial signature. They are not all open, but just a split in the middle.Ineed some advice on what glue should I use, what is the best way to securethe part of the butt that is not split (on either side of the split), andhow to (as best possible) clean the exposed surfaces and insert new glue?The rod has been completely stripped as the cork handle was "shot". I doplan to wrap the section area after gluing. For some reason, the mid andtip sections are quite straight, but the butt has some curvature which Ihave started to remove by heating and gentle bending by hand. Should Ifinish the straighting before gluing. Any advice or recommendations fromthe list are appreciated. Want to put this "puppy" back in tip top shape. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PAfwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 2 21:10:46 2000 e532AjG13565 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sat, 3 Jun 2000 02:10:41 +0000 Subject: Re: As long as we're asking stupid questions... Hardy "CC de France" Regards, Steve "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: Here's one. I'm in the process of deciding which rod to make for a friend (it's always afriend) who is an extreme novice caster. He wants something that he canuse thatit would be an eight foot seven weight, two piece rod. I'm just wonderingif it should be a Thramer 87 PX or a Dickerson 8015. Would it be asking too much of a novice to learn to cast a parabolic rod (AJThramer's taper) if he doesn't know any other way? Should I just go withthe Dickerson? What do you think? TIA, Dennis from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jun 2 21:52:02 2000 e532q1G14105 Subject: Old Rod ID Help boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01BFCCDC.A24D2760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BFCCDC.A24D2760 Gents, A friend in Sweden has asked for help regarding the make of the =following rod, pictures to be found at http://demo.frontosa.se/cane/ Any =information you might provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you,Martin-Darrell ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BFCCDC.A24D2760 Gents, A friend in Sweden has asked for help = make of the following rod, pictures to be found at http://demo.frontosa.se/cane/ = appreciated. Thank you, ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BFCCDC.A24D2760-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jun 2 22:46:01 2000 e533jwG14715 Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:45:56 +0800 Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:45:53 +0800 Subject: Re: Sv: As long as we're asking stupid questions... e533k1G14716 Sounds good, then ask for it back.Seriously though, I'd think the Dickerson would be better for any open,windy open water type fishing which I *think* is the case with your bassfishing. Tony At 05:54 PM 6/2/00 +0200, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Dennis Go for the parabolic rod. If Your friend doesn't know how to cast,there will be nothing to un-learn. regards,Carsten ----- Oprindelig meddelelse ----- Fra: Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO Til: 'Rodmakers' Sendt: 02. juni 2000 17:47Emne: As long as we're asking stupid questions... Here's one. I'm in the process of deciding which rod to make for a friend (it'salways afriend) who is an extreme novice caster. He wants something that he canuse thatit would be an eight foot seven weight, two piece rod. I'm just wonderingif it should be a Thramer 87 PX or a Dickerson 8015. Would it be asking too much of a novice to learn to cast a parabolic rod(AJThramer's taper) if he doesn't know any other way? Should I just go withthe Dickerson? What do you think? TIA, Dennis /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jun 2 23:22:33 2000 e534MUG15191 Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:22:28 +0800 Sat, 3 Jun 2000 12:22:27 +0800 Subject: Re: Tony's Haka At the very real risk of appearing to admire the All Blacks (NZ Rugbyteam) Peter's description is very accurate. If you ever hear of a NZ vsanybody especially Wallabys who are their natural enemies or theSpringboks who are the only team the All Blacks truely fear on TV watchit If you want to watch a true grudge match which may well involve lotsof biting, scratching, eye gouging, kneeing and ear pulling (and that'sjust between the opposing coaches) watch an All Black vs France :-) I had the pleasure/misfortune of playing them in my under 15s team and onthe flight home every one of us had injuries above and beyond the normaland so did the coach!Even an out of form All Blacks doing the Haka is no hollowperformance. Tony At 09:33 AM 6/3/00 +1000, petermckean wrote: I used play Rugby,mainly League, but also for a time Rugby Union in a competition whichincluded a team with a very high proportion of NZmeatworkers.It was like playing football against 15 brown, 100m.p.h.refrigerators!No wonder the bumper sticker says that "To play Rugbyyou need leather balls".Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Jun 3 04:55:18 2000 e539tFG18369 Subject: Sir D Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD94.F1B220E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD94.F1B220E0 Thank you, Sir Daryl of the List. I have been dying to ask that question = made the rod - it was my fourth - and think it is my second favourite =rod, only after the WC 7'6" 5 wt.We fish a lot here for small (3/4 - 2lb) wild brown trout in small =streams, and this is the rod for the task.I actually made it again, but put as big a butt swell on it as my forms =would allow, just to see what it would do to the action; and the answer =is that it spoiled it entirely. Casts a long way, but no feel, no =fishability. The Loomis Syndrome!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD94.F1B220E0 Thank you, Sir Daryl of the List. I = to ask that question for about 3 months. In case you missed my mail of = favourite rod, only after the WC 7'6" 5 wt.We fish a lot here for small (3/4 - = task.I actually made it again, but put as = swell on it as my forms would allow, just to see what it would do to the = and the answer is that it spoiled it entirely. Casts a long way, but no = fishability. The Loomis Syndrome!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCD94.F1B220E0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Jun 3 05:11:39 2000 e53ABbG18600 Subject: Binding Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BFCD97.3B620AA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BFCD97.3B620AA0 This seems to be the week I confess my shortcomings. I bind my sections =with some polished cotton thread that I buy from a client of mine who is =an upholsterer, and I use a lot heavier thread for binding prior to heat =treating than I do for binding after gluing.Now I build about 5 rods per year, or have so far, although that looks =set to increase a bit this year- would somebody like to BUY some of =these bloody things, by the way, as my wife is starting to find fine =voice about the number of bamboo rods one actually NEEDS.But I digress!I don't have a binder of any sort. I run the thread through a sort of =sandwich of wood and felt which is held to the bench and variably =compressed ( thus tensioned ) with a big G-clamp. The disadvantages are =obvious, but the big advantage seems to be that as you wrap the binding =thread, you have time and control to correct twists, misalignments and =tension irregularities.Takes a little time, but at 5 rods per year.........PeterPS Mind you, I would just LOVE one of those lovely 4-spool binders that =are in Ray Gould's book. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BFCD97.3B620AA0 This seems to be the week I confess shortcomings. I bind my sections with some polished cotton thread that I = from a client of mine who is an upholsterer, and I use a lot heavier = gluing.Now I build about 5 rods per year, or = although that looks set to increase a bit this year- would somebody like = some of these bloody things, by the way, as my wife is starting to find = voice about the number of bamboo rods one actually NEEDS.But I digress!I don't have a binder of any sort. I = through a sort of sandwich of wood and felt which is held to the bench = variably compressed ( thus tensioned ) with a big G-clamp. The = obvious, but the big advantage seems to be that as you wrap the binding = irregularities.Takes a little time, but at 5 rods year.........PeterPS Mind you, I would just LOVE one of = 4-spool binders that are in Ray Gould'sbook. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BFCD97.3B620AA0-- from mep@mint.net Sat Jun 3 07:01:11 2000 e53C1BG19453 Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:00:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Waterstones I don't have a tormek, though I have seen them in the catalogs. My deltasander andthe leather belts cost me under 50 dollars. The belts tend to be a little looseasthey are used. You can tighten them up by soaking them in water and puttingthem inthe drier. Mike bob maulucci wrote: I have a Tormek sharpener with a leather stroping wheel. I agree, it isscary sharp in no time. Chris Bogart's site has some more info on theleather wheel idea, ala Tom S. Fantastic stuff.Regards,Bob At 02:57 PM 6/1/00 -0400, you wrote:Take less of a bite. I used to use waterstones but now use diamondcompound anda leather belt attached to a small upright delta sander. You hold the bladeafew degrees steeper than the bevel and let the leather strop the edge likeyouwould a straight razor. Takes thirty seconds. I do it after a medium gritsharpening stone. A sharper blade you will not see! Much cheaper andfaster thana stone. MSC has the compound. I'm still on my first tube six years later.Sosharp you can shave with it! Mike John Collier wrote: Hey guys, I'm planning my first rod and I'm running into a problem: myplane is "digging in" at the nodes. I think i need to sharpen my bladeup abit more.? Where is a good source for sharpening supplies, specificallywaterstones in the 6000 grit range. ThanksJ. Collier Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Jun 3 08:53:40 2000 e53DreG21761 Subject: Al Medved E-mail Address Please If anyone has Al's e-mail address could you please contact me off-line with that information.Thanks,Doug Hall from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jun 3 12:19:00 2000 e53HJ0G24142 Priority: Normal (5.0.2195) Subject: Catskill Gathering - update To All - I have added new information to the Catskill Rodmakers Gathering 2000Homepage at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html There is now a link to a page where as I receive registrations I willupdate itas to who has registered with me. Also I've put links in to the Center andother useful sites in the Roscoe area. This includes accommodations and fly fishinginfosites. Chris from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jun 3 19:08:17 2000 e5408GG28095 Subject: Mail Organization: GOULD boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFCD7E.3E721320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFCD7E.3E721320 Set rodmakers mail ack ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFCD7E.3E721320 Set rodmakers mail =ack ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFCD7E.3E721320-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jun 3 22:43:56 2000 e543htG03536 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 3 Jun 2000 22:39:26 -0500 Subject: Penta Rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01BFCDAC.D43252C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BFCDAC.D43252C0 Anyone have a comprehensive list of Penta rodmakers, past and present? Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BFCDAC.D43252C0 present? Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BFCDAC.D43252C0-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jun 4 08:32:30 2000 e54DWTG09484 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: level silk lines field report We had some discussion a few weeks back about the use of level silk lines. I would suggest that if you find one, keep it. Darryl and others are right when they say they work fine. After several months of lawn casting the various level lines I have lying around, I finally bought some red tin (actually plastic) Mucilin and went to the stream for a spinner fall.I fished a level 4 wt. line I had redone (see Reed's site) and used a 12' Orvis braided floating leader. I did not try the 9' Orvis version, but it would be fine, I am sure. The braided leader created a quite acceptable front taper and turned the fly over for a nice soft landing. I cannot tell you how pleasurable it was. Better floatation and presentation. I fished the line for a good 2 hours without even wiping it off, and it performed well. Now I need to work on prolonging the floatation. I already have the big loop in the backing, but I switched to my PVC line instead of flipping it over.I had known how nice the line cast and shoot through the guides of my Driggs, but fishing it was by far the best of all. If this is so good, I can't wait to get my Phoenix DT line next month.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from stpete@netten.net Sun Jun 4 09:19:22 2000 e54EJLG10215 Subject: Hock Plane Irons group buy Would the person who posted the offer of the group buy on Hock ironsplease contact me and let me know if it is still open or if it is nowclosed. I'd like to get in if I'm not too late. Rick C. from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Jun 4 12:37:53 2000 e54HbqG12609 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id NAA04505 for Subject: GrayRock 00 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCEF3.26C85060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCEF3.26C85060 I know that several are asking what is scheduled for the gathering =thisyear so here is a list to the best of the planning so far: Thursday Evening - The traditional opening picnic at Whispering Pines =isstill on but the mood will be a bit different - it will be a time whenseveral of us will stop to pay tribute to a good friend - Frank Love - =whohas passed on - Frank lead a simpler life and avoided attention - It =will bea time to reestablish the friendships of the past and to say good bye to =one Friday - 9:00 - 5:00 Clubhouse Under The TentHarold & Eileen =VenderdisplaysDemarest Friday - 7:00 - ~~~ Pizza Party Social Saturday - 9:00 - 4:00Flea Market - for vendors and anyone with fly =fishingrelated items Presenter ( so far)Al Medved - Router Mill UpdateReed Curry - Silky Lines (Care and Feeding)Ron Barch - The Planing FormAlan Gnan - REC Product LineMe - HexLatest Vendors (so far) RECJeff WagnerRon Barch Products AvailableREC (Orders - reelseats - ferrules - from their product line)Bellinger ( reelseats)Cork - (1/4" thickness - 500 rings - $.50)Bamboo (1 bundle of 2 - 2 1/2")Planing FormsOther gadgetsJ. Austin Forbes - aka Terry O Connor( a Special Surprise) * note - if there is interest in ordering any items I need to know theneeds - example - any ferrules from Bailey Wood - I will have someavailable - but i need to know any requests - or if someone what morebamboo - or whatever - I am leaving for Grayrock this friday night =(6/10) -and will watch my mail from there ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCEF3.26C85060 know that several are asking what is scheduled for the gathering = here is a list to the best of the planning so far:Thursday = the mood will be a bit different - it will be a time whenseveral of = stop to pay tribute to a good friend - Frank Love - whohas passed on = lead a simpler life and avoided attention - It will bea time to = the friendships of the past and to say good bye to oneFriday = Harold & HexLatestVendors (so far)RECJeff BarchProducts AvailableREC (Orders - reelseats - = their product line)Bellinger ( reelseats)Cork - (1/4" thickness = rings - $.50)Bamboo (1 bundle of 2 - 2 1/2")Planing = Surprise)* note - if there is interest in ordering any items I = know theneeds - example - any ferrules from Bailey Wood - I will = someavailable - but i need to know any requests - or if someone what = morebamboo - or whatever - I am leaving for Grayrock this friday = (6/10) -and will watch my mail from =there ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCEF3.26C85060-- from bluemoon@kitemail.com Sun Jun 4 16:43:42 2000 e54LhfG16362 Subject: Re: GrayRock 00 Is there any other information about the GrayRock gathering on the web? Date? from your post, I'm guessing 15-17th? Is it open to anyone? Thanks, Ken --- "Wayne Cattanach" wrote: (clip) _____________________________________________________________KiteLife.com, The Internet Magazinehttp://www.kitelife.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jun 4 17:04:06 2000 e54M45G16790 Sun, 4 Jun 2000 15:04:06 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: GrayRock 00 boundary="------------70CF8AFA69CFCA3DD02A9440" --------------70CF8AFA69CFCA3DD02A9440 Wayne Cattanach wrote: * note - if there is interest in ordering any items I need to know the needs - example - any ferrules from Bailey Wood - I will have someavailable - but i need to know any requests - or if someone what morebamboo - or whatever - I am leaving for Grayrock this friday night(6/10) -and will watch my mail from there Wayne,Sorry to say I won't be able to make it to Grayling. Please telleveryone hello for me. Hope y'all have a great time, and raise a fewdollars through the Maker's Rod 2000. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------70CF8AFA69CFCA3DD02A9440 Wayne Cattanach wrote:* note - if thereis interest in ordering any items I need to know theneeds - example - any ferrules fromBailey Wood - I will have someavailable - but i need to know anyrequests - or if someone what morebamboo - or whatever - I am leaving and will watch my mail fromthereWayne, and raise a few dollars through the Maker's Rod 2000.Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------70CF8AFA69CFCA3DD02A9440-- from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Jun 4 18:00:05 2000 e54N04G17640 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id TAA29406 for Subject: GrayRock 00 - Oops I perhaps have mislead some - the dates for the gathering are 6/22 - 6/24 -I jsut happen to be doing there early - However if anyone wishes to comeearly for fishing or just hanging out the Clubhouse will be open for thatafter 6/17 - and if you are new to the list or rodmaking - all interested the opening night picnic and the pizza party - But Not TTBBBQ on Saturdaynight from oakmere@carol.net Sun Jun 4 20:37:09 2000 e551b8G19642 Subject: RE: My Questions about Granger Special Hi Folks: Chris, Harry, and Bob plus others who replied. I will be integrating all ofyour very useful advice. Think I have it figured out now with your inputs.It is now up to me to deliver on making the remake work. Thank you allagain, and I will let you know how it turns out. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PAfwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Jun 4 23:31:03 2000 e554V3G21928 72A79BF2E Subject: Agate Line Guide for Perfect Reel Not a rod question, but I seem to recall that someone listed a source foragate line guide replacements for the Hardy Perfect reel. Please contactme off list if you can help me. from Oozakgpt@aol.com Mon Jun 5 10:30:03 2000 e55FU3G04808 Subject: Rodmaker gatherings on East coast Is the Catskill gathering the only one this year on the east coast?I thought there was going to be one in PA at the Allenberry resort ?TIA Greg Taliani from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jun 5 14:25:55 2000 e55JPsG14889 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Rodmaker gatherings on East coast Importance: Normal My understanding is the Catskill replaces the PA gathering. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Rodmaker gatherings on East coast Is the Catskill gathering the only one this year on the east coast?I thoughtthere was going to be one in PA at the Allenberry resort ?TIA Greg Taliani from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Jun 5 17:59:35 2000 e55MxYG21430 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP +0100 Subject: Gold Finished Ferrules Ok Rodmakers without going to the expense and trouble of gold platinghave we any suggestions as to how we could obtain a gold finish onNickel Silver and Brass?I thought a gold set of ferrules would go well with the gold finishedtip rings and snakes that H & H are now producing ( seewww.hopkinsholloway.co.uk ).Ok I know theres no accounting for taste but any ideas please let meknow..............Ta..........Paul from kjc13@earthlink.net Mon Jun 5 18:42:13 2000 e55NgCG22511 QAA07300 Subject: tip top I am looking for suggestions. I have a WM Granger with a tip top withslight pits that might scratch thefly line or leader. Do you suggest replacing the tip top entirely witha new one, or is there a way tobuff out the pits? The wraps are original and I don't think I canreplace them with the exact color. from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jun 5 18:45:15 2000 e55NjFG22646 Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules Paul, You can do what Heddon did on the Sears #125 model - gold japaning! IE - gold lacquer paint Don Burns from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jun 5 19:07:28 2000 e5607RG23038 Subject: Re: tip top In a message dated 06/05/2000 7:50:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kjc13@earthlink.net writes: Keith, I would suggest replacing the tip top. Buy the time you get the pits out, the loop will be very thin. If the wraps don't go over the tip top tube, you won't have to rewrap it. Justheat the tip top with an alcohol flame and pull it off. Even ifyou have to rewrap, I would not try to save the tip top, if it ispitted that bad. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jun 5 20:35:51 2000 e561ZnG24319 Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules In a message dated 6/5/0 11:00:34 PM, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: The premier way to do this is to have them gold plated. You might find a local jeweler who can do this. There is more to it than meets the eye with ferrules. You will need to block or mask off the interior of the female, and you will need to turn the male slide undersize if you want it to be gold, or mask it off to keep the NS to NS fit. This has been done in the past successfully, but know and trust the plater. There is a lot that can go wrong if he is a slob. from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jun 5 20:39:27 2000 e561dQG24453 (204.186.33.142) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules I think Gold "Japaning" is gold leaf paint or coloring mixed withlaquer. Should work. Marty Ok Rodmakers without going to the expense and trouble of gold platinghave we any suggestions as to how we could obtain a gold finish onNickel Silver and Brass?I thought a gold set of ferrules would go well with the gold finishedtip rings and snakes that H & H are now producing ( seewww.hopkinsholloway.co.uk ).Ok I know theres no accounting for taste but any ideas please let meknow..............Ta..........Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 5 20:48:34 2000 e561mVG24673 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:35:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules Oddly gold has some strange properties, that facilitate plating both themale and female surfaces. In the electrical connector business, they notonly use gold for conductivity, but it tends to remains plated better. equally each time they are parted and rejoined. It also resists galling orseizing better than most other metals. The problem comes in knowing how much to plate to have the exact fitneeded. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules In a message dated 6/5/0 11:00:34 PM, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Nickel Silver and Brass? >> The premier way to do this is to have them gold plated. You might find alocal jeweler who can do this. There is more to it than meets the eye withferrules. You will need to block or mask off the interior of the female,andyou will need to turn the male slide undersize if you want it to be gold,ormask it off to keep the NS to NS fit. This has been done in the pastsuccessfully, but know and trust the plater. There is a lot that can gowrongif he is a slob. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jun 5 21:20:45 2000 e562KiG25185 Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I was at a gun show awhile back and there was a guy there gold plating all sorts of things from knives to coins for people. I would try going to a show and see if anyone there is doing it. we have some shows coming up here in the future and if I think of iot I will go there and get the info for you.bret from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 5 21:23:53 2000 e562NqG25302 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:10:31 -0500 , Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules Yes, this is called "brush plating", and although the electrical gear isexpensive, those that have it can plate most any metal, at a fair price.Oddly, gold is one of the easiest metals to plate. It would be well worth looking into. for many rod projects. GMA----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules I was at a gun show awhile back and there was a guy there gold plating allsorts of things from knives to coins for people. I would try going to ashowand see if anyone there is doing it. we have some shows coming up here inthe future and if I think of iot I will go there and get the info for you.bret from truckin@deltech.net Mon Jun 5 21:25:21 2000 e562PJG25415 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-55121U2500L250S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:25:14 -0500 Subject: rod restoiration I am brand new to bamboo rod restoration. When removing old varnish inpreparation for a redo, is it correct to scrape the rod down to plainwood? from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jun 5 22:31:47 2000 e563VkG26551 Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 5 22:59:17 2000 e563xHG27269 Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:59:08 -0700 Subject: Re: rod restoiration James,Yes, it is customary to go all the way down to the bamboo when doing arestoration. Be sure you do some research before you start removingwraps,guides, etc. A couple of good places to start are Micheal Sinclair's"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook," and Stuart Kirkfield's "The FineBambooFly Rod: A Master's Secrets to Repair and Restoration......."Any older rod with collector's value should be attempted only afterdoing the above research. Haphazard attempts are refinishing almost alwaysdiminish the value of a fine fly rod.Let us know how we can help you -- and be specific with your questions,please. We would like to know more about the rod in question. Harry "Arledge, James" wrote: I am brand new to bamboo rod restoration. When removing old varnish inpreparation for a redo, is it correct to scrape the rod down to plainwood? --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Jun 6 07:18:27 2000 e56CIQG02696 FAA15804; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules We plate the inside of relatively deep molds at work, although theirdepth/widthratio isn't as great as a female ferrule. We have to have specific anodesmade ofthe female surface. If someone really, really had to have the inside femaleplated, (not me!) do you think you could plate the inside uniformly if youwoulduse an anode of the approximate dimension of the ferrule in depth and ofsmallerdiameter, like an undersized male? By having a fairly uniform gap, we getmoreconsistent plating current and then so is the resulting plating thickness. Onceyou have the anode, I would think you would still have the problem of keepingitpositioned so that the gap is uniform, both at the top of the ferrule and atthebottom. Maybe you could make a non-conducting anode holding spacer at thebottomof the hole of such a design that it would hold the male anode *precisely*centered all the way? mac TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: The problem with plating ferrules is that you can't plate the inside of ahole uniformly. The plating will only take where the electrical currenttouches the metal at the upper end of the hole. The lower end of the holeisshielded from the current. Therefore, unless you mask the inside of thefemale, the ID of the female will be smaller at the upper end than at thelower end, and you will not be able to get a good fit. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 6 07:37:11 2000 e56CbAG02981 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:23:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules With this "brush plating", you can plate most anything, about as uniformlyas possible. It should be noted that most gold plating is in the flashplating category, i.e. .00001"/ .00002" area ! There are many commercialplaters who do lamps, ash trays, etc., for these high class executiveaircraft, with real gold ! A huge lamp will only cost $100 or so to haveplated. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules The problem with plating ferrules is that you can't plate the inside of ahole uniformly. The plating will only take where the electrical currenttouches the metal at the upper end of the hole. The lower end of the holeisshielded from the current. Therefore, unless you mask the inside of thefemale, the ID of the female will be smaller at the upper end than at thelower end, and you will not be able to get a good fit. from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Jun 6 08:04:46 2000 e56D4jG03586 Subject: Epifanes Teak varnish I was in a marine shop the other day, and discovered a varnish based ontung oil. Seems to be a"spar varnish". The brand name is "Epifanes", anyone have anyexperience with this varnish? Will it be suitable for a dip/drip tube setup? TIAdanny from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jun 6 09:10:51 2000 e56EAoG06543 JAA12888 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:10:52 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA24169 for Subject: Re: Epifanes varnish Onetime listmember John Cooper published the following procedure forbrushing on Epifanes spar varnish. I tried it on two rods and it worksas advertized, if you can control the runs. It seems to be nice varnish. There is no reason it couldn't be used in a dip tube.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jun 6 09:02:15 2000Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:16:15 +0000From: J.Cooper Subject: Epifanes Brush Varnishing I've stupidly trashed a mail that came in that I wanted to reply toproperly, but I'm hoping that I can cover the points well enough. One mail questioned the foam brush used. Well as I've said before, I use 1"wide grey foam brushes made in the USA. By (or for) the Epifanes varnishpeople. They cost the equivalent of $1 here. I use 60% Epifanes varnish and 40% pure artist's turpentine, warmed over apool of warm water. I also then spin the varnished section slowly on a rodturner: (I don't turn whilst varnishing.) The finish I obtain is better thananything I've seen from any pro rodmaker, other than Edward Barder, who Itherefore hate. Really, mine are like glass: Barder's you could dive into,and never reach bottom. What IS that man doing? There are no secrets to the job, but it is essential to apply the varnishstroke quite slowly. It also helps if the flexibility of the 'brush' is usedto apply to two sides at once. That is - you apply to the corners, NOT tothe flats. The brush then coats two sides of the rod shaft at once. Threegentle sweeps of the brush, and the section is varnished. It may be magic.I'm not sure. It's certainly cheating. Someone said they beat the varnish to foam with this sort of brush. Well, Inever get froth when using this system, although if I went at it with an eggwisk I suppose I could raise a bubble or two. The 'brush' lasts for about twenty sessions if I clean it properly, then ittends to loose its flexibility, so it's certainly not expensive in dead brushes. I am NEVER going to use a normal brush on any rod EVER again. For anyoneapplying varnish over rods that have guides fitted, it's an easy alternativeto dipping then de-varnishing the guides. That's how different this is. John Cooper (England) from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Jun 6 10:04:40 2000 e56F4dG09104 Subject: Alcohol Lamp List, Where would one go to purchase an alcohol lamp? TIA, Kevin from brewer@teleport.com Tue Jun 6 10:21:42 2000 e56FLfG10097 0000Received: from pm3-01-15.eug.du.teleport.com (HELO p1j1k7)(216.26.32.79) Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamp Anglers and Shoffs have them. REC probably does as well. http://www.anglersworkshop.comhttp://www.shofftackle.comhttp://www.reccomponents.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Alcohol Lamp List, Where would one go to purchase an alcohol lamp? TIA, Kevin from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jun 6 10:33:10 2000 e56FXAG10763 KAA23908 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:33:12 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA01886 for Subject: Dip tube pull speed I'm going to build a powered winch to pull the sections out of the diptube. (I've been using an old fly reel and going click-click-clickas slow as I can stand.) Most people seem to pull at 2-6 inches/minute,and stop at the guides. I'm wondering, if I pull really _S_L_O_W_,like 1/2 inch/minute, can I avoid stopping at the guides entirely?Does anything go wrong if you go to slow? Time is no object (I'llrig it to shut off when the section is out) and the whole thing is ina plastic enclosure to minimize dust.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jun 6 10:51:36 2000 e56FpYG12783 Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:51:29 +0800 Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:51:25 +0800 Subject: Re: Epifanes Teak varnish Epifanes works well on spars and I'd suggest it'd be pretty good for rods.I'd give it a go. Tony At 03:05 PM 6/6/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:I was in a marine shop the other day, and discovered a varnish based ontung oil. Seems to be a"spar varnish". The brand name is "Epifanes", anyone have anyexperience with this varnish? Will it be suitable for a dip/drip tube setup? TIAdanny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Tue Jun 6 11:05:48 2000 e56G5lG14043 Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamp You can get them for $6 U.S. at American Science & Surplus: www.sciplus.com HTH. Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin M. Buchanan Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 7:51 AMSubject: Alcohol Lamp Where would one go to purchase an alcohol lamp? from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Tue Jun 6 11:09:22 2000 e56G9LG14221 (1.61/SMTP) for Subject: Re: Epifanes varnish Frank, Are these (did you use) the ordinary, run-of-the-mill, gray foam brushes youcan buy at any hardware/paint store? Keith -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epifanes varnish Onetime listmember John Cooper published the following procedure forbrushing on Epifanes spar varnish. I tried it on two rods and it worksas advertized, if you can control the runs. It seems to be nicevarnish. There is no reason it couldn't be used in a dip tube. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jun 6 09:02:15 2000Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:16:15 +0000From: J.Cooper Subject: Epifanes Brush Varnishing I've stupidly trashed a mail that came in that I wanted to reply toproperly, but I'm hoping that I can cover the points well enough. One mail questioned the foam brush used. Well as I've said before, I use1"wide grey foam brushes made in the USA. By (or for) the Epifanes varnishpeople. They cost the equivalent of $1 here. from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jun 6 11:13:45 2000 e56GDjG14453 Subject: splitting cane for fun and profit? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_043B_01BFCFAC.55875400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_043B_01BFCFAC.55875400 After I finished planing the cane for my first rod I found myself =standing in about another rods (at least) worth of cane shavings. I =managed to split strips that were close to the size I needed for the =butt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips and ended = Are there and techniques that work better than others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and would like not to generate a =mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_043B_01BFCFAC.55875400 After I finished planing the cane for = I found myself standing in about another rods (at least) worth of cane = I managed to split strips that were close to the size I needed for the = section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips and ended up = of scrap. Is this a common occurance or is it = improves with time? Are there and techniques that work = others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and = to generate a mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_043B_01BFCFAC.55875400-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jun 6 11:20:44 2000 e56GKhG14776 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA32047; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:20:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Epifanes varnish Keith, I never found the "Epifanes" brand brush that John Cooper used.I just used the generic hardware store brush you can get for$0.89. Certainly if you see a better quality foam brush use it,but they all look the same to me. I think that you will need some sort of rig to hold the sectionsas you varnish. I just tried to hold the rod with one hand andbrush with the other, and its hard to get a good even stroke thatway. I think that John used a homemade device that held the sectionshorizontal during varnishing, then rotated for drying. He had some posts about it a couple years ago. Do a seach in the archives ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Keith Brewster wrote: Frank, Are these (did you use) the ordinary, run-of-the-mill, gray foam brushesyoucan buy at any hardware/paint store? Keith -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:11 AMSubject: Re: Epifanes varnish Onetime listmember John Cooper published the following procedure forbrushing on Epifanes spar varnish. I tried it on two rods and it worksas advertized, if you can control the runs. It seems to be nicevarnish. There is no reason it couldn't be used in a dip tube. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jun 6 09:02:15 2000Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:16:15 +0000From: J.Cooper Subject: Epifanes Brush Varnishing I've stupidly trashed a mail that came in that I wanted to reply toproperly, but I'm hoping that I can cover the points well enough. One mail questioned the foam brush used. Well as I've said before, I use1"wide grey foam brushes made in the USA. By (or for) the Epifanesvarnishpeople. They cost the equivalent of $1 here. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jun 6 11:25:32 2000 e56GPPG15027 Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:25:22 +0800 Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:25:18 +0800 Subject: Re: Epifanes varnish RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Be a litle bit careful. I've *heard* some of these will come to bits ifused with some solvents. Can't remember where I heard this but it's worth atrial before ripping into it. Tony At 11:20 AM 6/6/00 -0500, Frank Stetzer wrote:Keith, I never found the "Epifanes" brand brush that John Cooper used.I just used the generic hardware store brush you can get for$0.89. Certainly if you see a better quality foam brush use it,but they all look the same to me. I think that you will need some sort of rig to hold the sectionsas you varnish. I just tried to hold the rod with one hand andbrush with the other, and its hard to get a good even stroke thatway. I think that John used a homemade device that held the sectionshorizontal during varnishing, then rotated for drying. He had some posts about it a couple years ago. Do a seach in the archives ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Keith Brewster wrote: Frank, Are these (did you use) the ordinary, run-of-the-mill, gray foam brushesyoucan buy at any hardware/paint store? Keith -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:11 AMSubject: Re: Epifanes varnish Onetime listmember John Cooper published the following procedure forbrushing on Epifanes spar varnish. I tried it on two rods and it worksas advertized, if you can control the runs. It seems to be nicevarnish. There is no reason it couldn't be used in a dip tube. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jun 6 09:02:15 2000Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:16:15 +0000From: J.Cooper Subject: Epifanes Brush Varnishing I've stupidly trashed a mail that came in that I wanted to reply toproperly, but I'm hoping that I can cover the points well enough. One mail questioned the foam brush used. Well as I've said before, I use1"wide grey foam brushes made in the USA. By (or for) the Epifanesvarnishpeople. They cost the equivalent of $1 here. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 6 11:27:26 2000 e56GRQG15213 (204.186.33.170) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Paul Goodwin wrote: After I finished planing the cane for my first rod I found myselfstanding in about another rods (at least) worth of cane shavings. Imanaged to split strips that were close to the size I needed for thebutt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips andended up with a lot of scrap. Is this a common occurance or is it something that improves with time? Are there and techniques that work better than others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and would like not to generate amountain of shavings. PaulHi Paul, I have been at it 12 years and still end up with a fullshopping bag (paper) of shavings per rod. They make good packingmaterial or fireworks depending on what you do with them. Only way Iknow to get less shavings is with a beveller. Marty from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Jun 6 11:40:54 2000 e56GesG15746 Subject: Alcohol Lamp To all who sent replies, Thank you. Kevin from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jun 6 11:54:56 2000 e56GstG16451 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:50:27 -0500 Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0145_01BFCFAE.05B0DF80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01BFCFAE.05B0DF80 Paul,Believe me, it gets better with time. The last culm I split (rough =beveled the strips out of it yesterday... well actually well into the =morning this morning), I split the butt end for butt strips and got 24 =strips, the upper end of the culm I got 32 strips from. I had one bad =(as far as dimension) strip from the tip bundle and 2 bad strips from =the butt bundle. Thinking back 8 or 10 years... yeah, I threw a lot of = My splitting method is a bit different than most. I start the =splits with a froe, then split the strips out with my hands only after I =get the split started. Works good for me, and I can split strips down =to widths that are so narrow you can't plane them and still keep the =width on them consistent (I think Harry, M-D and Randall Gregory saw me =do that at the Sowbug Roundup), but don't get discouraged. It took the =splitting of a lot of culms to get to that point and after you get a =good number of rods under your belt, you'll be able to split much more = Bob-----Original Message-----From: Paul Goodwin Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: splitting cane for fun and profit? After I finished planing the cane for my first rod I found myself =standing in about another rods (at least) worth of cane shavings. I =managed to split strips that were close to the size I needed for the =butt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips and ended = Is this a common occurance or is it something that improves with = Are there and techniques that work better than others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and would like not to generate a =mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01BFCFAE.05B0DF80 Paul, = yesterday... well actually well into the morning this morning), I split = end for butt strips and got 24 strips, the upper end of the culm I got = and I can split strips down to widths that are so narrow you can't plane = and still keep the width on them consistent (I think Harry, M-D and = Gregory saw me do that at the Sowbug Roundup), but don't get = It took the splitting of a lot of culms to get to that point and after = Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: splitting = fun and profit? After I finished planing the cane = rod I found myself standing in about another rods (at least) worth = shavings. I managed to split strips that were close to the size I = the butt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips = up with a lot of scrap. Is this a common occurance or is it = that improves with time? Are there and techniques that work= others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and = not to generate a mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01BFCFAE.05B0DF80-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jun 6 12:24:43 2000 e56HOeG17897 Wed, 7 Jun 2000 01:24:35 +0800 Wed, 7 Jun 2000 01:24:32 +0800 Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Geez, you blokes have it easy. I saw a documentry on a violin maker basedin Sydney. He told the interviewer his wife weighs his daily output ofchips and shavings and feed him accordingly.She must be a hard woman :-)) Tony At 12:24 PM 6/6/00 -0400, marty wrote:Paul Goodwin wrote: After I finished planing the cane for my first rod I found myselfstanding in about another rods (at least) worth of cane shavings. Imanaged to split strips that were close to the size I needed for thebutt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips andended up with a lot of scrap. Is this a common occurance or is it something that improves with time? Are there and techniques that work better than others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and would like not to generate amountain of shavings. PaulHi Paul, I have been at it 12 years and still end up with a fullshopping bag (paper) of shavings per rod. They make good packingmaterial or fireworks depending on what you do with them. Only way Iknow to get less shavings is with a beveller. Marty /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jun 6 12:28:21 2000 e56HSKG18132 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Phoenix Silk Fly Lines Group Order Importance: Normal I'm forming a group order for these double tapered silk lines. Anyinterested parties, please contact me off list. Darrellwww.vfish.net from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jun 6 12:56:17 2000 e56HuGG19515 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:51:47 -0500 Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Man, it takes a lot of spruce and maple shavings to weigh out to a decentmeal! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Geez, you blokes have it easy. I saw a documentry on a violin maker basedin Sydney. He told the interviewer his wife weighs his daily output ofchips and shavings and feed him accordingly.She must be a hard woman :-)) Tony At 12:24 PM 6/6/00 -0400, marty wrote:Paul Goodwin wrote: After I finished planing the cane for my first rod I found myselfstanding in about another rods (at least) worth of cane shavings. Imanaged to split strips that were close to the size I needed for thebutt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips andended up with a lot of scrap. Is this a common occurance or is it something that improves with time? Are there and techniques that work better than others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and would like not to generate amountain of shavings. PaulHi Paul, I have been at it 12 years and still end up with a fullshopping bag (paper) of shavings per rod. They make good packingmaterial or fireworks depending on what you do with them. Only way Iknow to get less shavings is with a beveller. Marty /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from Paradise52@aol.com Tue Jun 6 15:28:57 2000 e56KSuG25865 Subject: Alcohol Lamps Dear List Members,I just wanted to inform members of the possible dangers involved in using alcohol lamps. I have been an art teacher for many years and a colleague who teaches science told me that alcohol lamps were very dangerous and couldhave the potential of exploding! This came as news to me since I used theminstead of candles for heating special miniature wax melting pens (used in the old craft of Ukranian Easter egg painting). The pens were designed to holdmelted wax. The wax would flow from a brass tip attached to a small reservoir. Anyway, since he informed me of this, I've been using candles for the last 5 years or so. I did'nt wish to have that kind of liability in a school, so the alcohol lamps (so much for soot free wax melting) have gone intostorage. I just thought for the benefit of all, it might be a good idea to inform you. Since he has been teaching science for about 25 years or so, I took his word as one coming from a reliable source. If anyone is aware of information that refutes this, please let me know, as the alcohol lamps were much better Regards,Mark Paradise from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Jun 6 15:55:11 2000 e56KtBG26689 Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Paul, I witnessed Bob split a culm down to the width of a good sized toothpickat the sowbug roundup. He did this on one of Harry Boyd's demo pieces.Although I am a beginning rod builder, I have tried his technique, andit seems to give one good control vs. the use of a froe. Give it a try. Kevin Buchanan from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jun 6 16:25:21 2000 e56LPJG27646 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Can anyone help me out with polishing a PU varnish? I have a few specks in my finish, and I am in a bind. I have the 3M fine grade buffing compound. I hate to redip since the wraps are all done. I did one final dip after doing the wraps.Thanks in advance,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 6 17:23:59 2000 e56MNwG29424 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:24:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamp I got mine from Cabella's for about $10. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Alcohol Lamp List, Where would one go to purchase an alcohol lamp? TIA, Kevin from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 6 17:30:27 2000 e56MURG29635 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:31:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Epifanes varnish I've been using foam brushes for my models for over 20 years now, and willnever go back to even the sable brushes. I get the cheapest with woodhandles, and tape the foam to the wood at the rear. I always test a newbatch, but so far have never had one dissolve in the butyrate based dopesuse. Thinned properly, they produce a "sprayed" look ! The last I found were.32 cents each ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epifanes varnish Be a litle bit careful. I've *heard* some of these will come to bits ifused with some solvents. Can't remember where I heard this but it's worthatrial before ripping into it. Tony At 11:20 AM 6/6/00 -0500, Frank Stetzer wrote:Keith, I never found the "Epifanes" brand brush that John Cooper used.I just used the generic hardware store brush you can get for$0.89. Certainly if you see a better quality foam brush use it,but they all look the same to me. I think that you will need some sort of rig to hold the sectionsas you varnish. I just tried to hold the rod with one hand andbrush with the other, and its hard to get a good even stroke thatway. I think that John used a homemade device that held the sectionshorizontal during varnishing, then rotated for drying. He had someposts about it a couple years ago. Do a seach in the archives ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Keith Brewster wrote: Frank, Are these (did you use) the ordinary, run-of-the-mill, gray foambrushesyoucan buy at any hardware/paint store? Keith -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:11 AMSubject: Re: Epifanes varnish Onetime listmember John Cooper published the following procedure forbrushing on Epifanes spar varnish. I tried it on two rods and itworksas advertized, if you can control the runs. It seems to be nicevarnish. There is no reason it couldn't be used in a dip tube. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jun 6 09:02:15 2000Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:16:15 +0000From: J.Cooper Subject: Epifanes Brush Varnishing I've stupidly trashed a mail that came in that I wanted to reply toproperly, but I'm hoping that I can cover the points well enough. One mail questioned the foam brush used. Well as I've said before, Iuse1"wide grey foam brushes made in the USA. By (or for) the Epifanesvarnishpeople. They cost the equivalent of $1 here. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from harms1@prodigy.net Tue Jun 6 17:49:21 2000 e56MnJG00132 Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:49:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Bob, I would allow the finish to cure fully (two to three weeks, minimum) beforeattempting to polish out the imperfections. Cut a very small square of 1200grit wet-or-dry paper and go over the rod to level out the offendingspecks--taking great care to keep the paper flat and to avoid the corners. I have not used the 3M buffing compound (preferring the 3-part formulasupplied by George Maurer), but I expect the 3M would work as well as anyother. Contrary to "conventional wisdom," Polyurethane finishes buff outbeautifuly as long as you:1. do not cut down into the layer below the surface, and2. allow adequate time for the finish to cure. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Can anyone help me out with polishing a PU varnish? I have a few specks inmy finish, and I am in a bind. I have the 3M fine grade buffing compound.Ihate to redip since the wraps are all done. I did one final dip afterdoingthe wraps.Thanks in advance,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from channer1@rmi.net Tue Jun 6 17:58:32 2000 e56MwVG00347 Subject: Re: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen bob maulucci wrote: Can anyone help me out with polishing a PU varnish? I have a few specks inmy finish, and I am in a bind. I have the 3M fine grade buffing compound. Ihate to redip since the wraps are all done. I did one final dip after doingthe wraps.Thanks in advance,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.comBob;The trick is to use the Perfect It-II Machine Polish after the finese-It rubbing compound, this will bring back the high gloss and get rid ofany cloudiness if you had to rub out over any wraps.John from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jun 6 18:02:59 2000 e56N2xG00534 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:58:16 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Bob,Try using some 2000 grit wet and dry sandpaper on the specks, but don'tuse water to wet it, use olive oil. Just lightly feather the specks in andthen polish out with the 3M and it should give you a great finish.----- Original Message----- Subject: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Can anyone help me out with polishing a PU varnish? I have a few specks inmy finish, and I am in a bind. I have the 3M fine grade buffing compound. Ihate to redip since the wraps are all done. I did one final dip after doingthe wraps.Thanks in advance,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jun 6 18:06:03 2000 e56N62G00669 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:01:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamps I used alcohol lamps for the first 3 or 4 years I was making rods and neverhad any problem, but that doesn't mean there won't be one. I have beenusing a 700-1100 degree heat gun everysince I discovered them! I think Istill have an alcohol lamp around here somewhere, but really don't have anydesire to use it again. Much easier to control the heat gun. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Alcohol Lamps Dear List Members,I just wanted to inform members of the possible dangers involved in usingalcohol lamps. I have been an art teacher for many years and a colleaguewhoteaches science told me that alcohol lamps were very dangerous and couldhavethe potential of exploding! This came as news to me since I used theminsteadof candles for heating special miniature wax melting pens (used in the oldcraft of Ukranian Easter egg painting). The pens were designed to holdmeltedwax. The wax would flow from a brass tip attached to a small reservoir.Anyway, since he informed me of this, I've been using candles for the last5years or so. I did'nt wish to have that kind of liability in a school, sothe alcohol lamps (so much for soot free wax melting) have gone intostorage.I just thought for the benefit of all, it might be a good idea to informyou.Since he has been teaching science for about 25 years or so, I took hisword as one coming from a reliable source. If anyone is aware ofinformationthat refutes this, please let me know, as the alcohol lamps were muchbetter Regards,Mark Paradise from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jun 6 18:59:31 2000 e56NxUG01826 Subject: Re: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Bob:I've had some success using the Brownell's Five "F" stock rubbing compound.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Can anyone help me out with polishing a PU varnish? I have a few specks inmy finish, and I am in a bind. I have the 3M fine grade buffing compound. Ihate to redip since the wraps are all done. I did one final dip after doingthe wraps.Thanks in advance,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from Oozakgpt@aol.com Tue Jun 6 19:01:29 2000 e5701SG01943 Subject: Stanley block plane Recently found a Stanley #9 1/2 going through my Pap's stuff(He was a machinist by trade).Appears to be in great shape.The lever cap is .675".It's my understanding that the new lever cap's are short.When did stanleychange it's production as I'm trying to find it's year of production. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jun 6 19:05:53 2000 e5705rG02140 Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0082_01BFCFEA.17E14780" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BFCFEA.17E14780 Group: Watching Bob split cane with his hands, and not only split it into =strips but near into power fiber hairs, was very enlightening. He has =great control over the width of his strips, even when they got down to =less than 1/8"; just pretty darn amazing. Martin-Darrell Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Paul, My splitting method is a bit different than most. I start the splits =with a froe, then split the strips out with my hands only after I get =the split started. Works good for me, and I can split strips down to =widths that are so narrow you can't plane them and still keep the width =on them consistent (I think Harry, M-D and Randall Gregory saw me do =that at the Sowbug Roundup), but don't get discouraged. It took the =splitting of a lot of culms to get to that point and after you get a =good number of rods under your belt, you'll be able to split much more = Bob-----Original Message-----From: Paul Goodwin Subject: splitting cane for fun and profit? After I finished planing the cane for my first rod I found myself =standing in about another rods (at least) worth of cane shavings. I =managed to split strips that were close to the size I needed for the =butt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips and ended = Is this a common occurance or is it something that improves with time? = Are there and techniques that work better than others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and would like not to generate a =mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BFCFEA.17E14780 Group: Watching Bob splitcane = was very enlightening. He has great control over the width of his = amazing. Martin-Darrell From:BobNunley = Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Paul, My splitting method is a bit = split strips down to widths that are so narrow you can't plane them and = keep the width on them consistent (I think Harry, M-D and Randall = splitting of a lot of culms to get to that point and after you get a = of rods under your belt, you'll be able to split much more = Bob -----Original = After I finished planing the cane for = rod I found myself standing in about another rods (at least) worth of = the butt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips and = with a lot of scrap. Is this a common occurance or is it = that improves with time? Are there and techniques that work = others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and = not to generate a mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BFCFEA.17E14780-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 6 19:25:20 2000 e570PJG02500 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:26:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamps I would think the main danger here, would be filling the bottle too full. Ikeep the level to 1/3 or less, and have never seen any danger. I've beenworking with methanol, and nitro methane for over 50 years, and in drum ormore quantities. These are about 1000% safer than gasoline, which we don'teven keep in the garage ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Alcohol Lamps Dear List Members,I just wanted to inform members of the possible dangers involved in usingalcohol lamps. I have been an art teacher for many years and a colleaguewhoteaches science told me that alcohol lamps were very dangerous and couldhavethe potential of exploding! This came as news to me since I used theminsteadof candles for heating special miniature wax melting pens (used in the oldcraft of Ukranian Easter egg painting). The pens were designed to holdmeltedwax. The wax would flow from a brass tip attached to a small reservoir.Anyway, since he informed me of this, I've been using candles for the last5years or so. I did'nt wish to have that kind of liability in a school, sothe alcohol lamps (so much for soot free wax melting) have gone intostorage.I just thought for the benefit of all, it might be a good idea to informyou.Since he has been teaching science for about 25 years or so, I tookhisword as one coming from a reliable source. If anyone is aware ofinformationthat refutes this, please let me know, as the alcohol lamps were muchbetter Regards,Mark Paradise from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue Jun 6 19:25:51 2000 e570PoG02580 Subject: Re: Gold Finished Ferrules Paul, If you really wanted to be fancy, you could just turn them out of 14K or 18K Gold barstock/rod! That is. . . if you don't mind casting an 8 oz rod. :.p Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 6 19:26:52 2000 e570QpG02722 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:27:58 -0500 Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? I can hardly wait to SEE this done ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Paul, I witnessed Bob split a culm down to the width of a good sized toothpickat the sowbug roundup. He did this on one of Harry Boyd's demo pieces.Although I am a beginning rod builder, I have tried his technique, andit seems to give one good control vs. the use of a froe. Give it a try. Kevin Buchanan from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 6 19:33:08 2000 e570X7G02948 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:34:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen Where can this product be obtained ? Perfect It- Machine II ? Is this howit's labeled ? Thanks, GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Polishing MinWax Helmsmen bob maulucci wrote: Can anyone help me out with polishing a PU varnish? I have a few specksinmy finish, and I am in a bind. I have the 3M fine grade buffingcompound. Ihate to redip since the wraps are all done. I did one final dip afterdoingthe wraps.Thanks in advance,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.comBob;The trick is to use the Perfect It-II Machine Polish after the finese-It rubbing compound, this will bring back the high gloss and get rid ofany cloudiness if you had to rub out over any wraps.John from Oozakgpt@aol.com Tue Jun 6 19:52:01 2000 e570q0G03290 Subject: BRDP program Anyone have experience with the BRDP software?How do I open this programto install it?Respond off the mailing list, please. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jun 6 20:32:21 2000 e571WKG04071 Subject: WTD:Red/Yellow Jasper thread? All, Anyone out there willing to swap a spool (100 yds) of red/yellow silk jasper (00 or 3/0) for a spool of blue/white jasper? I'd also be willing to swap for red/white if I can't get red/yellow. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Tue Jun 6 21:11:02 2000 e572B1G04715 Subject: Man-powered Lathe Hey Guys,A fledgling rodmaker here.. If all I want to do with a lathe is preparethe blank for ferrules and do cork handles, do you think a man- poweredmachine operated with a foot treadle would work? Any ideas on this re:parts or design? Any help would be appreciated as I would like to avoidbuying a lathe for these simple tasks... Thanks! Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 6 21:17:29 2000 e572HRG05003 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:04:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathes Sadly, I have a good friend, who is dying of cancer. He has 2 lathes, thatneed to be sold. One is an old Logan 10", and the other is a 10" Atlas, witha re- ground and trued bed, which is 4.5' long ! I will have prices for theseshortly, so if any are interested in a well cared for lathe, that will allowany rod making function, please contact me off list. GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jun 6 21:39:05 2000 e572d5G05467 Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:39:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Stanley block plane Either one of these two links might help you find the information you seek. Harry http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htmhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/toolframe.html Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: Recently found a Stanley #9 1/2 going through my Pap's stuff(He was amachinist by trade).Appears to be in great shape.The lever cap is .675".It'smy understanding that the new lever cap's are short.When did stanleychangeit's production as I'm trying to find it's year of production. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jun 6 21:46:56 2000 e572kuG05671 Subject: Varmor About a week ago, someone asked about using Varmor. Try asI might, I can't remember who. If you're the guilty party,would you mind contacting me off- list at fbcwin@3g.quik.com thanks,Harry from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Jun 7 01:25:01 2000 e576P0G10290 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Alcohol Lamps Rod Makers List Serve Importance: Normal Probably the biggest danger is knocking over a glass lamp and have itshatter and cause a fire. Get a nice vintage brass alcohol lamp... a lotmore character and safer. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamps I used alcohol lamps for the first 3 or 4 years I was making rods and neverhad any problem, but that doesn't mean there won't be one. I have beenusing a 700-1100 degree heat gun everysince I discovered them! I think Istill have an alcohol lamp around here somewhere, but really don't have anydesire to use it again. Much easier to control the heat gun. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Alcohol Lamps Dear List Members,I just wanted to inform members of the possible dangers involved in usingalcohol lamps. I have been an art teacher for many years and a colleaguewhoteaches science told me that alcohol lamps were very dangerous and couldhavethe potential of exploding! This came as news to me since I used theminsteadof candles for heating special miniature wax melting pens (used in the oldcraft of Ukranian Easter egg painting). The pens were designed to holdmeltedwax. The wax would flow from a brass tip attached to a small reservoir.Anyway, since he informed me of this, I've been using candles for the last5years or so. I did'nt wish to have that kind of liability in a school, sothe alcohol lamps (so much for soot free wax melting) have gone intostorage.I just thought for the benefit of all, it might be a good idea to informyou.Since he has been teaching science for about 25 years or so, I took hisword as one coming from a reliable source. If anyone is aware ofinformationthat refutes this, please let me know, as the alcohol lamps were muchbetter Regards,Mark Paradise from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Wed Jun 7 01:57:01 2000 e576uxG10873 Subject: Re: Epifanes Teak varnish Dear listmembers, Thanks for all replies. Looks like I eventually found "Spar" varnish here....Next question; Should I go for the Teak Varnish or the Clear Varnish(Oregonpine, mahogany etc)The different in this two, is that the teak type absorbs the "oils" from thewood, sticking better to"fat" wood, and the other for dry woods.After the cane have been heat treated, its pretty dry, isn't it? regardsdanny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Jun 7 06:34:51 2000 e57BYmG15533 Subject: Bob Nunley - Splitting Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007B_01BFD0C7.790C9400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BFD0C7.790C9400 Hi You know, I moan and bitch about the difficulty of varnishing, =about silk wraps, about post-glue straightening, etc, but the hardest =part of the whole process to me is splitting; I waste a lot of cane, and =spend a lot of time planing because I dasn't try to split it fine =enough. I don't measure mine in paper supermarket bags. I practically =use metric tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad on your technique please? Like how =far do you split with the froe; do you split into halves/quarters etc or =do you split off pre- measured strips; how do you control the wandering =and angulation of the split; do you just sort of pull it apart from the =ends, or do you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] none of the above); =how long a piece of cane will you split with this technique.I am actually going down to give it a bit of a try now.Thanks,Peter ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BFD0C7.790C9400 difficulty of varnishing, about silk wraps, about post-glue = but the hardest part of the whole process to me is splitting; I waste a = enough. I don't measure mine in paper supermarket bags. I practically = tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad on= technique please? Like how far do you split with the froe; do you split = halves/quarters etc or do you split off pre-measured strips; how do you = the wandering and angulation of the split; do you just sort of pull it = from the ends, or do you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] none of the = how long a piece of cane will you split with this =technique.I am actually going down to give it a = now.Thanks,Peter ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BFD0C7.790C9400-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jun 7 06:42:24 2000 e57BgLG15782 Wed, 7 Jun 2000 19:42:09 +0800 Subject: Re: Epifanes Teak varnish Danny,I should know the difference but I don't even though I've used both. Iwould think however the teak finish may have more oil or the oil may behavedifferently as far as actually drying goes because teak is notoriusly hardto keep things sticking to, we used to wash it with petrol before gluing itand lots of people don't even try varnishing it and resort to keeping itoiled instead.Personaly, I'd stick with the spar varnish used for Douglas Fir masts andspars etc rather than that for the trim. These get plenty of sunlight andneed to be flexable and tough and Epifanes is well regarded amonst yachties. Tony At 08:58 AM 6/7/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:Dear listmembers, Thanks for all replies. Looks like I eventually found "Spar" varnish here....Next question; Should I go for the Teak Varnish or the Clear Varnish(Oregonpine, mahogany etc)The different in this two, is that the teak type absorbs the "oils" from thewood, sticking better to"fat" wood, and the other for dry woods.After the cane have been heat treated, its pretty dry, isn't it? regardsdanny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jun 7 06:59:26 2000 e57BxPG16155 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Bob Nunley - Splitting "'RODMAKERS'" BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_CiUW5HApAxtk18uvnPcy1g)"Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_CiUW5HApAxtk18uvnPcy1g) I've posted this in the past but now may be a good time to post it again. Itoo used to find splitting the toughest part of rod building. Seam Moranthen taught me his amazing technique. Since then, I can split as fine as Iwant to go. Splitting has actually become fun. Here's his technique: REPRINT:Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly share histechnique, I had written up my take on how hedescribed it. So, to paraphrase the master.... Forget the knife in the vise. In fact, you only needthe knife to start the split. The splitting is donewith your bare hands (actually, wear gloves. I didn'tthe other night and my hands are sliced up today.) ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES, NEVER THIRDS. 1. split the culm in half and then quarters as youusually do.2. knock out the damns.3. mount a strip into your workbench's woodworkingvise with about a foot sticking out the end. If youdon't have a woodworking vise, you'll need to rigsomething up, perhaps with a small bench vise. Youwant to have a way to hold the strip, enamel side up,in place so that both your hands are free.4. using a knife, start a split exactly in the centerand perfectly perpendicular to the strip.5. once the strip is a few inches down the strip (infact, I needed to get the split past the first node),put aside the knife and continue the split by pullingthe two sides of the culm away from each other usingyour hands.6. now here's the really neat part: if you pull apartwith equal force using both hands, the split willlikely travel down the middle. If it does begin towander: hold the smaller strip facing straight out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and bend only thefatter part away from the split. The split willimmediately travel back down the middle.7. Split halves into halves, etc. For tip strips, Ihad no problem getting down to .20 ". In fact, youcould easily go smaller if you want. The problem willnot be the splitting, it will be having enough left ofthe strips to work with! Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 7:30 AM Subject: Bob Nunley - Splitting Hi You know, I moan and bitch about the difficulty of varnishing, aboutsilk wraps, about post-glue straightening, etc, but the hardest part of thewhole process to me is splitting; I waste a lot of cane, and spend a lot oftime planing because I dasn't try to split it fine enough. I don't measuremine in paper supermarket bags. I practically use metric tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad on your technique please? Like howfar do you split with the froe; do you split into halves/quarters etc or doyou split off pre-measured strips; how do you control the wandering andangulation of the split; do you just sort of pull it apart from the ends,or do you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] none of the above); how long apiece of cane will you split with this technique.I am actually going down to give it a bit of a try now.Thanks,Peter --Boundary_(ID_CiUW5HApAxtk18uvnPcy1g) posted this in the past but now may be a good time to post it again. I = to find splitting the toughest part of rod building. Seam Moran then = Splitting has actually become fun. Here's his =technique: REPRINT:Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly histechnique, I had written up my take on how hedescribed it. = paraphrase the master....Forget the knife in the vise. In fact, = needthe knife to start the split. The splitting is donewith your = sliced up today.)ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES, NEVER = the culm in half and then quarters as youusually do.2. knock out = damns.3. mount a strip into your workbench's woodworkingvise = a foot sticking out the end. If youdon't have a woodworking vise, = need to rigsomething up, perhaps with a small bench vise. = have a way to hold the strip, enamel side up,in place so that both = hands are free.4. using a knife, start a split exactly in the = perfectly perpendicular to the strip.5. once the strip is a few = the strip (infact, I needed to get the split past the first = aside the knife and continue the split by pullingthe two sides of = away from each other usingyour hands.6. now here's the really = if you pull apartwith equal force using both hands, the split = travel down the middle. If it does begin towander: hold the smaller = facing straight out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and bend only = thefatter part away from the split. The split willimmediately = back down the middle.7. Split halves into halves, etc. For tip = Ihad no problem getting down to .20 ". In fact, youcould easily = smaller if you want. The problem willnot be the splitting, it will = with!Richard petermckeanSent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 7:30 = 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Bob Nunley - =Splitting = the difficulty of varnishing, about silk wraps, about post-glue = etc, but the hardest part of the whole process to me is splitting; I = split it fine enough. I don't measure mine in paper supermarket bags. = practically use metric tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad = technique please? Like how far do you split with the froe; do you = halves/quarters etc or do you split off pre-measured strips; how do = control the wandering and angulation of the split; do you just sort of = apart from the ends, or do you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] none = technique.I am actually going down to give it a = try now.Thanks,Peter --Boundary_(ID_CiUW5HApAxtk18uvnPcy1g)-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jun 7 07:10:29 2000 e57CASG16502 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamps The alcohol lamp is good for removing "fuzzies" from wraps beforefinishing. You can't do that with a heat gun. In my nearly 30 years ofteaching college level science I have not personally heard of an alcohollamp explosion. I would expect that using the wrong fuel might cause someexplosions. For example I would not advise the use of methanol or benzenein a lamp. One should stick to denatured 95% ethanol (Grain alcohol). Thedenaturant may be methanol or benzene so it would be good to check to seeif more than a trace of these chemicals is used to denature the ethanol youintend to use. I will check into this further. -Doug Easton At 06:06 PM 6/6/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:I used alcohol lamps for the first 3 or 4 years I was making rods and neverhad any problem, but that doesn't mean there won't be one. I have beenusing a 700-1100 degree heat gun everysince I discovered them! I think Istill have an alcohol lamp around here somewhere, but really don't have anydesire to use it again. Much easier to control the heat gun. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Paradise52@aol.com Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 3:24 PMSubject: Alcohol Lamps Dear List Members,I just wanted to inform members of the possible dangers involved in usingalcohol lamps. I have been an art teacher for many years and a colleaguewhoteaches science told me that alcohol lamps were very dangerous and couldhavethe potential of exploding! This came as news to me since I used theminsteadof candles for heating special miniature wax melting pens (used in the oldcraft of Ukranian Easter egg painting). The pens were designed to holdmeltedwax. The wax would flow from a brass tip attached to a small reservoir.Anyway, since he informed me of this, I've been using candles for the last5years or so. I did'nt wish to have that kind of liability in a school, sothe alcohol lamps (so much for soot free wax melting) have gone intostorage.I just thought for the benefit of all, it might be a good idea to informyou.Since he has been teaching science for about 25 years or so, I took hisword as one coming from a reliable source. If anyone is aware ofinformationthat refutes this, please let me know, as the alcohol lamps were muchbetter Regards,Mark Paradise from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jun 7 08:05:54 2000 e57D5rG18461 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 7 Jun 2000 07:52:24 -0500 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Bob Nunley - Splitting Something all of us "newbies" would like to know ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bob Nunley - Splitting Hi You know, I moan and bitch about the difficulty of varnishing, aboutsilk wraps, about post-glue straightening, etc, but the hardest part of thewhole process to me is splitting; I waste a lot of cane, and spend a lot oftime planing because I dasn't try to split it fine enough. I don't measuremine in paper supermarket bags. I practically use metric tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad on your technique please? Like how fardo you split with the froe; do you split into halves/quarters etc or do yousplit off pre-measured strips; how do you control the wandering andangulation of the split; do you just sort of pull it apart from the ends, ordo you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] none of the above); how long apiece of cane will you split with this technique.I am actually going down to give it a bit of a try now.Thanks,Peter from leroyt@involved.com Wed Jun 7 08:40:07 2000 e57De6G20564 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 06:39:59 -0700 Subject: RE: Dip tube pull speed Importance: Normal Running my motorized winch at 3-4" per minute and stopping at the guides,depending what the ambient temp is, rarely get a drip at the end of thefreshly dipped section.Leroy........ -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 8:33 AM Subject: Dip tube pull speed I'm going to build a powered winch to pull the sections out of the diptube. (I've been using an old fly reel and going click-click-clickas slow as I can stand.) Most people seem to pull at 2-6 inches/minute,and stop at the guides. I'm wondering, if I pull really _S_L_O_W_,like 1/2 inch/minute, can I avoid stopping at the guides entirely?Does anything go wrong if you go to slow? Time is no object (I'llrig it to shut off when the section is out) and the whole thing is ina plastic enclosure to minimize dust.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jun 7 09:35:46 2000 e57EZjG22322 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 7 Jun 2000 09:31:09 -0500 Subject: Fw: Bob Nunley - Splitting boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0299_01BFD063.BC56AD40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0299_01BFD063.BC56AD40 The method Richard described below is basically the same as mine, except =that I don't use a vice, I just stand in the middle of the shop (or =living room if something good is on TV) and straddle the cane like a =stick horse.Peter... To answer a couple of things you asked, I do split in =either Halves or thirds, depending on whether its a culm section for tip =strips or butt strips. I generally get my split started 6 or so inches =down the piece before I pull the froe out and start with my hands. As =far as length of culm I work this way... well that depends on the rod =I'm making. Anywhere from a 4 foot or so piece for 3' sections to a =7.5' long piece for a one piece 6 footer.I've already told a couple of people, that as soon as my camera gets =out of the hospital (my girlfriend drowned it on Memorial Day in the =Mountain Fork River) I'll take pictures of the method and post them =along with a good explanation on the web site. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 6:55 AMSubject: RE: Bob Nunley - Splitting I've posted this in the past but now may be a good time to post it =again. I too used to find splitting the toughest part of rod building. =Seam Moran then taught me his amazing technique. Since then, I can split =as fine as I want to go. Splitting has actually become fun. Here's his =technique: REPRINT:Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly share histechnique, I had written up my take on how hedescribed it. So, to paraphrase the master.... Forget the knife in the vise. In fact, you only needthe knife to start the split. The splitting is donewith your bare hands (actually, wear gloves. I didn'tthe other night and my hands are sliced up today.) ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES, NEVER THIRDS. 1. split the culm in half and then quarters as youusually do.2. knock out the damns.3. mount a strip into your workbench's woodworkingvise with about a foot sticking out the end. If youdon't have a woodworking vise, you'll need to rigsomething up, perhaps with a small bench vise. Youwant to have a way to hold the strip, enamel side up,in place so that both your hands are free.4. using a knife, start a split exactly in the centerand perfectly perpendicular to the strip.5. once the strip is a few inches down the strip (infact, I needed to get the split past the first node),put aside the knife and continue the split by pullingthe two sides of the culm away from each other usingyour hands.6. now here's the really neat part: if you pull apartwith equal force using both hands, the split willlikely travel down the middle. If it does begin towander: hold the smaller strip facing straight out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and bend only thefatter part away from the split. The split willimmediately travel back down the middle.7. Split halves into halves, etc. For tip strips, Ihad no problem getting down to .20 ". In fact, youcould easily go smaller if you want. The problem willnot be the splitting, it will be having enough left ofthe strips to work with! Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 7:30 AM Subject: Bob Nunley - Splitting Hi You know, I moan and bitch about the difficulty of =varnishing, about silk wraps, about post-glue straightening, etc, but =the hardest part of the whole process to me is splitting; I waste a lot =of cane, and spend a lot of time planing because I dasn't try to split =it fine enough. I don't measure mine in paper supermarket bags. I =practically use metric tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad on your technique please? =Like how far do you split with the froe; do you split into =halves/quarters etc or do you split off pre- measured strips; how do you =control the wandering and angulation of the split; do you just sort of =pull it apart from the ends, or do you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] =none of the above); how long a piece of cane will you split with this =technique.I am actually going down to give it a bit of a try now.Thanks,Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0299_01BFD063.BC56AD40 The method Richard describedbelow = the same as mine, except that I don't use a vice, I just stand in the = the shop (or living room if something good is on TV) and straddle the = a stick horse. of things you asked, I do split in either Halves or thirds, depending on = started 6 or so inches down the piece before I pull the froe out and = a 7.5' long piece for a one piece 6 footer. told = people, that as soon as my camera gets out of the hospital (my = drowned it on Memorial Day in the Mountain Fork River) I'll take = method and post them along with a good explanation on the web =site. Later,Bob -----Original = 'RODMAKERS' <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, June 07, 2000 6:55 AMSubject: RE: Bob = SplittingI've posted this in the past but now may= time to post it again. I too used to find splitting the toughest = building. Seam Moran then taught me his amazing technique. Since = split as fine as I want to go. Splitting has actually become fun. = technique: REPRINT:Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly = histechnique, I had written up my take on how hedescribed = paraphrase the master....Forget the knife in the vise. In = only needthe knife to start the split. The splitting is = and my hands are sliced up today.)ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES,= THIRDS.1. split the culm in half and then quarters as = do.2. knock out the damns.3. mount a strip into your = woodworkingvise with about a foot sticking out the end. If = have a woodworking vise, you'll need to rigsomething up, perhaps = small bench vise. Youwant to have a way to hold the strip, = up,in place so that both your hands are free.4. using a = strip.5. once the strip is a few inches down the strip = needed to get the split past the first node),put aside the knife = continue the split by pullingthe two sides of the culm away from = other usingyour hands.6. now here's the really neat part: if = pull apartwith equal force using both hands, the split = travel down the middle. If it does begin towander: hold the = strip facing straight out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and = only thefatter part away from the split. The split = travel back down the middle.7. Split halves into halves, etc. = youcould easily go smaller if you want. The problem willnot = with!Richard petermckeanSent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 Splitting = about the difficulty of varnishing, about silk wraps, about = straightening, etc, but the hardest part of the whole process to = splitting; I waste a lot of cane, and spend a lot of time = in paper supermarket bags. I practically use metric =tons!So Bob, could you just expand a = technique please? Like how far do you split with the froe; do = into halves/quarters etc or do you split off pre-measured = you control the wandering and angulation of the split; do you = of pull it apart from the ends, or do you inch down a bit at a = [c] none of the above); how long a piece of cane will you split = this technique.I am actually going down to = of a try now.Thanks,Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0299_01BFD063.BC56AD40-- from steve@hamiltonrods.com Wed Jun 7 09:36:21 2000 e57EaLG22436 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Bob Nunley - Splitting e57EaLG22437 I found that the benefit of getting better at splitting was not just less canewaste (although I like to try to get two two-tip rods from a culm if I can), butbetter shaped strips. In other words, if you can control "split wander" you'llend up with strips that have an almost perfectly rectangular cross-section (Ihope that makes sense) and that means less work trying to get a 60-degreebevel. Now all I need to do is improve my planing, blank-straightening, ferrulemounting, wrapping, and varnishing techniques :) --Steve from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Wed Jun 7 12:29:47 2000 e57HTjG28011 Subject: Starrett Micrometer Hey Folks - can someone explain to this newbie how to read a 1" starrettmicrometer? Thanks! Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jun 7 13:00:12 2000 e57I01G29107 Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer Alec It would be a lot easier for someone to show you, but I'll take a stabat telling you how. I am assuming it is a one inch Mike. Your little finger goes throughthe "C" part of the micrometer and you thumb and forefinger are torotate the barrel. On the stationary shaft you will see a lot of little marks at rightangles to the shaft. Each division is equal to .025". You will noticethat at the the fourth mark it reads .100" You will rotate the barreluntil the piece to be measured is just barely between the anvil and theshaft. You then read the number of full divisions on the shaft that areexposed. Lets say there are three, That then would be .750" then bylooking at the rotating barrel you will see a set of numbers from 1-25.the number lined up is the fractional part of the measurement (let's sayit is 7) and you will add that number to .750. .750 + 7 +.757. Somemicrometers are designed to be read to the .0001", but you need not beconcerned with an accuracy of less than .001". I hope that I have notconfused you too much. It really is worthwhile to have someone showyou.Good LuckRalph from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jun 7 13:10:51 2000 e57IApG29509 Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer Whoa! I really goofed. where ever I wrote .750, please change to .075. I knew it couldn't be that easyRalph from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jun 7 13:24:31 2000 e57IOVG00214 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silk lines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water technique to restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decided to mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with the results so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I've decided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking soda method. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I let the line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from briansr@point-net.com Wed Jun 7 15:28:04 2000 e57KS3G03659 Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:28:02 -0400 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 RichardAs I mentioned there is tung oil and then there is TUNG OIL.Get the realstuff !!!Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silk lines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water technique to restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decided to mix myownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with the results soordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I've decided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking soda method. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I let the line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from anglport@con2.com Wed Jun 7 16:13:57 2000 e57LDuG05028 ESMTP(SMTPD32-6.00) id AA3419C8033A; Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:10:12 - 0400 Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer Alec,Try this for starters.Art http://deepcnet.usi.edu/engintech/machasst/meastool/readmic.htm (It's got PICTURES!) t 01:38 PM 06/07/2000 -0400, Alec Stansell wrote:Hey Folks - can someone explain to this newbie how to read a 1" starrettmicrometer? Thanks! Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jun 7 16:42:19 2000 e57LgDG05927 Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer Much better! from anglport@con2.com Wed Jun 7 16:48:59 2000 e57LmwG06170 ESMTP(SMTPD32-6.00) id A274173603A4; Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:45:24 - 0400 Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer Ya velcome! At 03:38 PM 06/07/2000 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Much better! from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jun 7 16:50:23 2000 e57LoFG06301 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:36:48 -0500 Subject: Alcohol Lamps The following is from the recently retired Sr. auto research engineer of alarge major oil company. He has spent many millions researching the use ofalcohols, and their traits. GMA----- Original Message ----- Any lamp that burns anything can be dangerous, I guess, but I personallywould not worry much about an alcohol lamp! Cheeze! In ordinarycircumstances, the mixture inside the airspace of the lamp would likely betoo rich to even burn. Anything is possible, of course, but here the riskshould be pretty small. Alcohol lamps have been used for years in schoollabs for example. Denatured ethanol is usually the fuel of choice.----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 8:03 AMSubject: Re: Super Elia diesel? [SAMTalk] Hey, I have a guy saying an alcohol lamp is dangerous, and can explode !These are such a benign little items, and alcohol has so littlevolatility,I can't think of why this would happen. Can you ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bert Striegler" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 9:39 PMSubject: Re: Super Elia diesel? [SAMTalk] George, the Elia is a long necked Italian engine that came out around1946,but it has been replicated lately by a couple of engineers and I amtoldisis a nice job. It is a handsome engine, but I have not seen thereplicasocannot actually comment on it except to say what I did. I bet Davidhasseenone. As I recall, the replicas cost around $250 new.----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 7:39 PMSubject: Fw: Super Elia diesel? [SAMTalk] Hey, what's an Elia ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 7:26 PMSubject: Super Elia diesel? [SAMTalk] Anybody familiar with a Super Elia Diesel repro? About 0.25 in3(whatsthat in mm?) from Italyslightly used, but in VG/EXC condition. I'm wondering what itshistoryis, and what it might be worth?Steve Roselle ___________________________________________________________T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics from lblove@cableone.net Wed Jun 7 17:59:06 2000 e57Mx5G07676 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44);Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:58:54 -0700 "'petermckean'" ,"'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Bob Nunley - Splitting boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFD0A9.4E505080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFD0A9.4E505080 Well,With all thing taken in to consideration, you can split the cane =into thirds with Bob's superman approach.All that needs to be done is pre-stress the thicker of the two sections =that are being split with one hand and gentle pull with the other. I =now use Bob's basic approach on splitting cane and can split a strip =.250" plus or minus .010" over a 6' length, or .195" +-.010" over 6'.I tried using the knife and vise and got terrible results. After =getting only one rod a culm on the first attempt I knew that something =had to change, now I get at least two rods a culm with enough spares to =make a third single tip rod if all goes well in the planing. wear safety glasses when splitting cane...don't ask me why i know... Bradley Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 6:19 AMSubject: RE: Bob Nunley - Splitting I've posted this in the past but now may be a good time to post it =again. I too used to find splitting the toughest part of rod building. =Seam Moran then taught me his amazing technique. Since then, I can split =as fine as I want to go. Splitting has actually become fun. Here's his =technique: REPRINT:Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly share histechnique, I had written up my take on how hedescribed it. So, to paraphrase the master.... Forget the knife in the vise. In fact, you only needthe knife to start the split. The splitting is donewith your bare hands (actually, wear gloves. I didn'tthe other night and my hands are sliced up today.) ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES, NEVER THIRDS. 1. split the culm in half and then quarters as youusually do.2. knock out the damns.3. mount a strip into your workbench's woodworkingvise with about a foot sticking out the end. If youdon't have a woodworking vise, you'll need to rigsomething up, perhaps with a small bench vise. Youwant to have a way to hold the strip, enamel side up,in place so that both your hands are free.4. using a knife, start a split exactly in the centerand perfectly perpendicular to the strip.5. once the strip is a few inches down the strip (infact, I needed to get the split past the first node),put aside the knife and continue the split by pullingthe two sides of the culm away from each other usingyour hands.6. now here's the really neat part: if you pull apartwith equal force using both hands, the split willlikely travel down the middle. If it does begin towander: hold the smaller strip facing straight out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and bend only thefatter part away from the split. The split willimmediately travel back down the middle.7. Split halves into halves, etc. For tip strips, Ihad no problem getting down to .20 ". In fact, youcould easily go smaller if you want. The problem willnot be the splitting, it will be having enough left ofthe strips to work with! Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 7:30 AM Subject: Bob Nunley - Splitting Hi You know, I moan and bitch about the difficulty of varnishing, =about silk wraps, about post-glue straightening, etc, but the hardest =part of the whole process to me is splitting; I waste a lot of cane, and =spend a lot of time planing because I dasn't try to split it fine =enough. I don't measure mine in paper supermarket bags. I practically =use metric tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad on your technique please? Like =how far do you split with the froe; do you split into halves/quarters =etc or do you split off pre- measured strips; how do you control the =wandering and angulation of the split; do you just sort of pull it apart = from the ends, or do you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] none of the =above); how long a piece of cane will you split with this technique.I am actually going down to give it a bit of a try now.Thanks,Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFD0A9.4E505080 Well, approach.All that needs to be done is pre-stress the thicker = a strip .250" plus or minus .010" over a 6' length, or .195" +-.010" = 6'. that something had to change, now I get at least two rods a culm with = planing. oh yeah, wear safety glasses when splitting =cane...don't ask me why i know... Bradley ----- Original Message ----- Richard Nantel Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000= AMSubject: RE: Bob Nunley - =Splitting posted this in the past but now may be a good time to post it again. I = used to find splitting the toughest part of rod building. Seam Moran = taught me his amazing technique. Since then, I can split as fine as I = technique: REPRINT:Knowing that Sean Moran would gladly histechnique, I had written up my take on how hedescribed it. = paraphrase the master....Forget the knife in the vise. In = only needthe knife to start the split. The splitting is = hands are sliced up today.)ALL SPLITS ARE IN HALVES, THIRDS.1. split the culm in half and then quarters as = do.2. knock out the damns.3. mount a strip into your = woodworkingvise with about a foot sticking out the end. If = have a woodworking vise, you'll need to rigsomething up, perhaps = small bench vise. Youwant to have a way to hold the strip, enamel = up,in place so that both your hands are free.4. using a knife, = split exactly in the centerand perfectly perpendicular to the = once the strip is a few inches down the strip (infact, I needed to = split past the first node),put aside the knife and continue the = pullingthe two sides of the culm away from each other = hands.6. now here's the really neat part: if you pull = force using both hands, the split willlikely travel down the = out(parrallel to the jaws of the vise) and bend only thefatter = away from the split. The split willimmediately travel back down = middle.7. Split halves into halves, etc. For tip strips, Ihad = problem getting down to .20 ". In fact, youcould easily go smaller = want. The problem willnot be the splitting, it will be having = ofthe strips to work =with!Richard Splitting = straightening, etc, but the hardest part of the whole process to me = paper supermarket bags. I practically use metric tons!So Bob, could you just expand a tad = technique please? Like how far do you split with the froe; do you = halves/quarters etc or do you split off pre-measured strips; how do = control the wandering and angulation of the split; do you just sort = it apart from the ends, or do you inch down a bit at a time (or [c] = technique.I am actually going down to give it = try now.Thanks,Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFD0A9.4E505080-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jun 7 19:29:52 2000 e580TpG08824 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4 "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Importance: Normal As I mentioned there is tung oil and then there is TUNGOIL.Get the realstuff !!! Hi Brian, If it says Tung oil on the can, how can I tell if it really is or isn'ttung oil? Richard from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Jun 7 19:54:30 2000 e580sTG09164 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 I tried the same thing, mixing tung oil and spar varnish about 50/50, anddidn't get very good results, either. Line came out very stiff. I haven'ttried to take the stuff off yet, though. On the next line I used what appearsto be mostly just tung oil, and the line seems much more like what I think itis supposed to be. I suggest you if you ever do get the stuff off you mightwanna try just straight tung oil. Darrell's site has one technique that seemsmore aggressive than baking soda, and I was going to try it, but haven't yet.http://vfish.net/silkrecon.html has the information. Further in the article ittalks about linseed oil and mastic varnish, but I think I'd stick with the tungoil until it proves no good, based on Reed Curry's strong endorsement of thatapproach. FWIW - hope it helps ya mac Richard Nantel wrote: As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silk lines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water technique to restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decided to mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with the results so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I've decided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking soda method. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I let the line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Wed Jun 7 20:00:35 2000 e5810YG09362 Subject: starret micrometer Looks like I've got it figured out now... thanks to all for your help! Cheers, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Jun 8 03:07:51 2000 e5887oG13747 Subject: Epifanes Varnish Listmembers, Thanks for all the replays on this subject. I also discovered what "Spar Varnish" is. I always thought "Spar" was akind of solvent in thevarnish. Now I understand why all I asked about it, got that funnylooking face. Spars are themast and spars of a yacht, that is the mast and boom, yard etc. Sparvarnish is any varnishmade for spars. Thank You Tony, for Your explanation. I have tried "Epifanes Bootlack" (Clear Varnish) on some silk wraps, andthe result is outstanding.It builds up nice, after 2 coats the Gossamer silk is almost level. I'vetried PU varnish, DAM`s rodvarnish and Gudebrod Rod Varnish, Epifanes are superior to them all.It gets more glass like translucent with no "fog". Used "Highland Green"Gossamer and I've neverbeen able to get it proper translucent with any of the varnish I've usedbefore.Now I see all the flaws in the cork through the silk, and it did not getas dark as with the others. Cant wait to dip varnish the rod............ regardsdanny from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Jun 8 03:23:10 2000 e588N8G13997 Subject: Pacific Bay Does anybody have a web address to Pacific Bay? TIAdanny from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jun 8 07:17:07 2000 e58CH7G16482 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:03:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Epifanes Varnish Danny the other thing that makes it "spar" varnish, is that it has U- Vinhibitors, for extended exposure to the sun. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Epifanes Varnish Listmembers, Thanks for all the replays on this subject. I also discovered what "Spar Varnish" is. I always thought "Spar" was akind of solvent in thevarnish. Now I understand why all I asked about it, got that funnylooking face. Spars are themast and spars of a yacht, that is the mast and boom, yard etc. Sparvarnish is any varnishmade for spars. Thank You Tony, for Your explanation. I have tried "Epifanes Bootlack" (Clear Varnish) on some silk wraps, andthe result is outstanding.It builds up nice, after 2 coats the Gossamer silk is almost level. I'vetried PU varnish, DAM`s rodvarnish and Gudebrod Rod Varnish, Epifanes are superior to them all.It gets more glass like translucent with no "fog". Used "Highland Green"Gossamer and I've neverbeen able to get it proper translucent with any of the varnish I've usedbefore.Now I see all the flaws in the cork through the silk, and it did not getas dark as with the others. Cant wait to dip varnish the rod............ regardsdanny from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jun 8 08:06:01 2000 e58D5wG17567 Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:05:50 +0800 Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:05:43 +0800 Subject: Re: Epifanes Varnish and se ya later That's true but you need at least 4 coats straight out of the can for it tobe effective so it's of minimal value on a rod. I'm outa here for a few weeks, must remember to resign from rodmakersforthe duration. See anybody getting to Greyling there! Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from ballard@orion.wes.army.mil Thu Jun 8 08:25:07 2000 e58DP6G18350 Subject: Leo Eck's phone number or email Hey yall. Does someone have Leo Eck's phone number or email addressthey could send to me off list. I have a friend here thatwants a restoration job done on one of his rods. Thanks,Jerry Ballard (waiting patiently for SRG 2000) from if6were9@bellsouth.net Thu Jun 8 11:42:03 2000 e58Gg2G25001 Subject: Re: starret micrometer The real trick to correctly reading a mic, or any precision measuringdevice, is to know when enough pressure is enough. Alec Stansell wrote: Looks like I've got it figured out now... thanks to all for your help! Cheers, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from cattanac@wmis.net Thu Jun 8 12:12:56 2000 e58HCtG26340 Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:24:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Epifanes Varnish and se ya later See anybody getting to Greyling there! Tony If you want I will be in GrayRock from this weekend and for the next two weeks - If you get in town early leave a message at The Fly Factory 517-348 - 5844 Wayne___________________________________________________Email sent using WMIS Internet (http://www.wmis.net/)Premium Internet Services from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Jun 8 12:20:06 2000 e58HK5G26852 Subject: Poem Dear listmembers, I sent the poem, sent on this list a week ago, to a friend of mine. Heis an author of severalflyfishing books, and he replied like this: brain / it's sufficient to use a handmade cane. / For me,however, that willnot do, / graphite, and only graphite, YAHOO!, / is adequate brainhalfs two. I'll buy me a "cane" / further downthe lane / when I'm old and my feet gets shivering. / Butuntill then / againand again / I'll read and live every page. / But untill then /again and again/ I'll keep to my beautiful Sage. Anybody want to help me out here? regardsdanny:-) from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Thu Jun 8 12:35:08 2000 e58HZ8G27633 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:35:05 EDT Subject: nodeles construction Investigating building in nodeless mode. What are some good reading andare there any web based articles. Do you splice A or B A ____________ ___________\\ enamel_____________\\_________ B ______________ _enamel side__________\\---------------------\\ -- --------------------------- Jim Tefft from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Jun 8 12:49:47 2000 e58HnkG28188 NAA05478; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Subject: Re: Poem Danny, I can help - use the "delete" button...dws. Danny Twang wrote: Dear listmembers, I sent the poem, sent on this list a week ago, to a friend of mine. Heis an author of severalflyfishing books, and he replied like this: brain / it's sufficient to use a handmade cane. / For me,however, that willnot do, / graphite, and only graphite, YAHOO!, / is adequate brainhalfs two. I'll buy me a "cane" / further downthe lane / when I'm old and my feet gets shivering. / Butuntill then / againand again / I'll read and live every page. / But untill then /again and again/ I'll keep to my beautiful Sage. Anybody want to help me out here? regardsdanny:-) from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jun 8 12:56:45 2000 e58HuiG28739 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:52:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Poem Danny, hope this gives you a little ammunition!!! LOL Ode to the Mighty Cane When I was young and short of senseI used to fish with plastic,But years of gained experience,Has taught me, Cane's fantastic... The feel, the touch, the sense of awe,Of casting cane is grand...The plastic rods hang on the wallnever to touch to my hands... I did one time think of a use I'll cut them up to 2 foot chunksand use to beat the goat... The graphite rods have seen their days,Their value seemed to waneTheir worth, it seems, has gone away, But not my Mighty Cane. of graphite that I haveBut I'd never sell the mighty canes, I guess the graphite is alright But my Cane, my Mighty Cane,is for Anglers pure and true Bob Nunley, Split cane rodmaker and lousy, terribly, sucka$$ poet! -----Original Message----- Subject: Poem Dear listmembers, I sent the poem, sent on this list a week ago, to a friend of mine. Heis an author of severalflyfishing books, and he replied like this: brain / it's sufficient to use a handmade cane. / For me,however, that willnot do, / graphite, and only graphite, YAHOO!, / is adequate brainhalfs two. I'll buy me a "cane" / further downthe lane / when I'm old and my feet gets shivering. / Butuntill then / againand again / I'll read and live every page. / But untill then /again and again/ I'll keep to my beautiful Sage. Anybody want to help me out here? regardsdanny:-) from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Jun 8 12:59:15 2000 e58HxEG28978 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Silk Floss Importance: Normal I bought a batch of what was supposed to be vintage silk thread that Ithought I might use for my bamboo rod restorations and what I received wasvintage silk floss. It's beautiful stuff, but I don't tie flies... Any flytyers interested in some, I've set up a link so I can hopefully get it intothe hands of people that can use it. www.vfish.net/floss.htm The link has pics and info. let me know what you think. Discount given to RMlisters. Thanks, Darrellwww.vfish.net from steve@hamiltonrods.com Thu Jun 8 13:03:49 2000 e58I3mG29269 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Poem e58I3mG29270 The thought of preferring a rod made of plastic,is silly and stupid-- completely bombastic.So you fish your plastic, I'll stick to my grass,and we'll see if I don't kick your poor Sage-rod ass. HTH. With apologies to the list, --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Poem Dear listmembers, I sent the poem, sent on this list a week ago, to a friend of mine. Heis an author of severalflyfishing books, and he replied like this: brain / it's sufficient to use a handmade cane. / For me,however, that willnot do, / graphite, and only graphite, YAHOO!, / is adequate brainhalfs two. I'll buy me a "cane" / further downthe lane / when I'm old and my feet gets shivering. / Butuntill then / againand again / I'll read and live every page. / But untill then /again and again/ I'll keep to my beautiful Sage. Anybody want to help me out here? regardsdanny:-) from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Jun 8 13:04:12 2000 e58I4CG29338 2000 11:04:13 PDT Subject: Re: Poem It sounds like your friend missed the math class where they discussednumerators and denominators!! Seriously, though, this piece demonstrates admirably the depth of theargument for graphite. --- Danny Twang wrote:Dear listmembers, I sent the poem, sent on this list a week ago, to a friend of mine.Heis an author of severalflyfishing books, and he replied like this: brain / it's sufficient to use a handmade cane. / For me,however, that willnot do, / graphite, and only graphite, YAHOO!, / isadequate brainhalfs two. I'll buy me a "cane" / further downthe lane / when I'm old and my feet gets shivering. / Butuntill then / againand again / I'll read and live every page. / But untillthen /again and again/ I'll keep to my beautiful Sage. Anybody want to help me out here? regardsdanny:-) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!http://photos.yahoo.com from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jun 8 15:18:52 2000 e58KIqG04598 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: nodeles construction I did A when I did them. See Chris Bogart's site for good articles on this. http://www.canerod.com/Articles/Index.htmlGood luck.Bob 5tAt 01:37 PM 6/8/00 -0400, you wrote:Investigating building in nodeless mode. What are some good reading andare there any web based articles. Do you splice A or B A ____________ ___________\\ enamel_____________\\_________ B ______________ _enamel side__________\\---------------------\\ -- --------------------------- Jim Tefft Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jun 8 15:45:24 2000 e58KjNG05335 Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:45:18 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: nodeles construction Jim Tefft wrote: Investigating building in nodeless mode. What are some good reading andare there any web based articles. Do you splice A or B A ____________ ___________\\ enamel_____________\\_________ B ______________ _enamel side__________\\---------------------\\ -- --------------------------- Jim Tefft Jim,I think most guys who build nodeless go with "A" -- splicesacross the enamel. You might want to check out Bruce Conner's instructionsite. As you know, though, I'm not a nodeless sort of fellow. I justcan't see the advantages, other than not needing a special oven for heattreating.http://www.cybercom.net/%7Ebconner/index.htmlAlso might check Tony Young's site, although I don't have theaddress handy. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jun 8 17:42:08 2000 e58Mg7G08366 Subject: Grayrock bound from California? Hi, Anyone else from California going to Grayrock? Don Burns from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Jun 8 19:53:07 2000 e590qqG10396 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 09 Jun 2000 08:49:39 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rodmakers Subject: RE: nodeles construction Hi Jim,welcome to the "Dark Side". It is good to see another one turn.The force must be strong in you.You can do it either way. I've done two rods using the "B" methodwhich seem to be holding up just fine, but a lot of people, includingGarrison have used the "A" method. The "A" method requires absolutelyperfect plane work if you don't want it to look sloppy but it probably makesit easier to get a nice smooth join on the enamel side. The "B" method is(IMHO) more forgiving from a cometic point of view but you have to featherthe ends of the splices very well to avoid getting a little lump on theenamel side.Chris Bogart has a great web page on nodeless construction whichyou can access through RODMAKERS and "The Book" touches briefly onsplicingbut, apart from that, there isn't a lot around that I know of. There are afew of we nodeless heretics on the list so help will always be at hand. Good luck Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: nodeles construction Investigating building in nodeless mode. What are some good reading andare there any web based articles. Do you splice A or B A ____________ ___________\\ enamel_____________\\_________ B ______________ _enamel side__________\\---------------------\\ -- --------------------------- Jim Tefft from BambooRods@aol.com Thu Jun 8 21:47:21 2000 e592lKG11843 Subject: Re: Grayrock bound from California? Don,Go east young Man, Go east!!! Look forward to seeing you.Doug Hall from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jun 8 22:35:20 2000 e593ZJG12741 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:36:36 -0500 Subject: Lathes To all who asked about my friends lathes. I have saved your messages, andassoon as he is out of the hospital, I will contact everyone, with thepricing. Thanks, GMA from cattanac@wmis.net Thu Jun 8 23:02:37 2000 e5942aG13262 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id AAA20364; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 Subject: Re: Grayrock bound from California? Don - it sounded like Jerry Foster was planning on coming when I talked withhime the other day from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jun 8 23:40:44 2000 e594efG14081 Subject: Richard Nantel Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFD21F.F60C8CE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFD21F.F60C8CE0 Thanks for the info, Richard. Could you please clear up one thing for me =though?When you have started the process, with the strip in the vice with ="about a foot sticking out", and you have started the split with the =froe and are ready to start to continue the splitting by hand, do you =take it right out of the vice as does Bob, or do you sort of walk it =down, Probably sounds like a silly question, but it seems to me it would make =a difference.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFD21F.F60C8CE0 Thanks for the info, Richard. Could you= clear up one thing for me though?When you have started the process,with = in the vice with "about a foot sticking out", and you have started the = with the froe and are ready to start to continue the splitting by hand, = take it right out of the vice as does Bob, or do you sort of walk it = repositioning it in the vice every foot or so of split? Probably sounds like a silly question, = to me it would make a difference.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFD21F.F60C8CE0-- from rawhitejr@adelphia.net Fri Jun 9 04:22:04 2000 e599M3G17151 Subject: Rod Identification I have to look at some older bamboo rods this weekend and need somehelp with identifying the makers. One is marked "Skilton High Grade"and the other is marked with the rodmakers name "William Fruchting". Heis (was) from Hudson, N.Y.I don't have too much information yet, having only talked on the phonewith the owner, but he did say the Fruchting rod was ashort ( 7 ft) 3 pc rod and the Skilton need a refinishing and minorwork. TIA, Bob from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jun 9 05:24:24 2000 e59AONG18029 (204.186.33.37) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Rod Identification Hi, The Skilton rod may have been built by the late Tony Skilton whoworked for Orvis. He probably used an Orvis blank . Never heard ofFruchting. Marty I have to look at some older bamboo rods this weekend and need somehelp with identifying the makers. One is marked "Skilton High Grade"and the other is marked with the rodmakers name "William Fruchting". Heis (was) from Hudson, N.Y.I don't have too much information yet, having only talked on the phonewith the owner, but he did say the Fruchting rod was ashort ( 7 ft) 3 pc rod and the Skilton need a refinishing and minorwork. TIA, Bob from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Fri Jun 9 07:05:21 2000 e59C5KG19373 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:05:21 EDT Subject: nodeless Thanks to everyone for your input to nodeless rod making.Jim T from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 9 07:07:30 2000 e59C7UG19609 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Richard Nantel "'RODMAKERS'" BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_r4uQvYeO6bDERkp+awYwcA)"Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_r4uQvYeO6bDERkp+awYwcA) Hello Peter, You're right, I wasn't clear about this. Yes, you split the culm with itheld in the vise, repositioning it every couple of feet as the split movescloser to the vise. The vice holds the culm allowing you to use both handsto split the cane. Thanks again to Sean Moran for this excellent technique. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 12:36 AM Subject: Richard Nantel Thanks for the info, Richard. Could you please clear up one thing for methough?When you have started the process, with the strip in the vice with "abouta foot sticking out", and you have started the split with the froe and areready to start to continue the splitting by hand, do you take it right outof the vice as does Bob, or do you sort of walk it down, repositioning itin the vice every foot or so of split?Probably sounds like a silly question, but it seems to me it would make adifference.Peter --Boundary_(ID_r4uQvYeO6bDERkp+awYwcA) Peter, right, I wasn't clear about this. Yes, you split the culm with it held = vise, repositioning it every couple of feet as the split moves closer to = vise. The vice holds the culm allowing you to use both hands to split = Thanks again to Sean Moran for this excellent =technique. Richard petermckeanSent: Friday, June 09, 2000 12:36 = 'RODMAKERS'Subject: RichardNantelThanks for the info, Richard. Could = clear up one thing for me though?When you have started the process, = in the vice with "about a foot sticking out", and you have started the = with the froe and are ready to start to continue the splitting by = take it right out of the vice as does Bob, or do you sort of walk it = repositioning it in the vice every foot or so of split? Probably sounds like a silly = seems to me it would make a difference.Peter --Boundary_(ID_r4uQvYeO6bDERkp+awYwcA)-- from harms1@prodigy.net Fri Jun 9 07:17:39 2000 e59CHdG20160 Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:17:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Poem boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BFD1EA.CD7DF640" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BFD1EA.CD7DF640 Danny, I wouldn't worry much about it. The man's ear for poetry is probably a =pretty good match for his choice in fishing hardware. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Subject: Poem Dear listmembers, I sent the poem, sent on this list a week ago, to a friend of mine. Heis an author of severalflyfishing books, and he replied like this: brain / it's sufficient to use a handmade cane. / For me,however, that willnot do, / graphite, and only graphite, YAHOO!, / is adequate brainhalfs two. I'll buy me a "cane" / further downthe lane / when I'm old and my feet gets shivering. / Butuntill then / againand again / I'll read and live every page. / But untill then =/again and again/ I'll keep to my beautiful Sage. Anybody want to help me out here? regardsdanny:-) ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BFD1EA.CD7DF640 Danny, I wouldn't worry muchabout = The man's ear for poetry is probably a pretty good match for his choice = fishing hardware. cheers, =Bill-----------------------------------------------------Clic= here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/= ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 08,2000 = PM Poem = again = ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BFD1EA.CD7DF640-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jun 9 07:50:51 2000 e59CopG20701 Subject: RE: Poem Danny - You could always use method employed by a certain former congressmanwhenconstituents would pester him with irritating letters. He would send them anote saying "Sir, I thought you would want to know that some derangedpersonhas sent me the enclosed letters using your name." Barry -----Original Message-----From: Danny Twang Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 12:21 PM Subject: Poem Dear listmembers, I sent the poem, sent on this list a week ago, to a friendof mine. Heis an author of severalflyfishing books, and he replied like this: brain / it's sufficient to use a handmade cane. / however, that willnot do, / graphite, and only graphite, YAHOO!, / isadequate brainhalfs two. I'll buy me a "cane" / further downthe lane / when I'm old and my feet gets shivering./ Butuntill then / againand again / I'll read and live every page. / Butuntill then /again and again/ I'll keep to my beautiful Sage. Anybody want to help me out here? regardsdanny:-) from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jun 9 11:25:48 2000 e59GPmG26354 Subject: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines On the reccommendation of a couple listers (one of themwas Mr. Silk - Reed Curry) I tried an Orvis braidedleader on one of my silk level lines. It works fairly well. One of the objections I had tobraided leaders was the spray that came off of them whenI false casted over the fish. Saturating the leader withMucilin helped that problem a lot. Attaching the leaderwas fairly easy by cutting off the loop of the leader,and feeding the silk line down the middle of the leader push sections of it together. I then whip finished the end of the leader that overlapped the silk line. Cutting the end of the silk lineat an angle helped make a smoother transition. The leader ends in a loop and attaching a tippit by the loop to loop method makes changing a tippit a few second job. One thing I think would help is if Orvis made a braidedleader out of clear nylon line instead of the dark lineit is now made from.Darryl from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jun 9 11:34:21 2000 e59GYJG26759 Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:34:11 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: snippedOne thing I think would help is if Orvis made a braidedleader out of clear nylon line instead of the dark lineit is now made from.Darryl Just a thought, Darryl, but a furled leader might work well. And I've seenthose in all kinds ofcolors. I know the Michigan crew (&*%^ yankees) all seemed to havethose furled leaders at SRG. Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 9 11:38:07 2000 e59Gc7G27039 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines Importance: Normal Darryl, You might consider making furled leaders. They don't spray the way braidedleaders do and you can choose your own monofilament. Personally, I alsothink they turn over better than braided leaders. Here's a URL thatexplains how to make them: http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/henk/henk1.htm Once you have the board made, it takes about 15 minutes to make a leader. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Friday, June 09, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines On the reccommendation of a couple listers (one of themwas Mr. Silk - Reed Curry) I tried an Orvis braidedleader on one of my silk level lines. It works fairly well. One of the objections I had tobraided leaders was the spray that came off of them whenI false casted over the fish. Saturating the leader withMucilin helped that problem a lot. Attaching the leaderwas fairly easy by cutting off the loop of the leader,and feeding the silk line down the middle of the leader push sections of it together. I then whip finished theend of the leader that overlapped the silk line. Cutting theend of the silk line at an angle helpedmake a smoother transition. The leader ends in a loopand attaching a tippit by the loop to loop method makeschanging a tippit a few second job. One thing I think would help is if Orvis made a braidedleader out of clear nylon line instead of the dark lineit is now made from.Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jun 9 11:41:35 2000 e59GfZG27249 Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines Are the furled leaders hollow, where you could insertthe silk line down the middle?Darryl all seemed to havethose furled leaders at SRG. Harry>> from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Fri Jun 9 11:42:29 2000 e59GgTG27367 helo=stans.tiac.net) Subject: Radial Bamboo splitters Hey Folks,FYI: Check out these nice bamboo froes and unusual radial bamboosplittersat the following website: http://insiderweb.com/bamboo_tools.htm I have no affiliation... etc. Just did a search for bamboo froes and cameup with this. Interesting idea - would it work for rodmakers? I wonder...might have to get one and try. Cheers, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 9 11:52:16 2000 e59GqFG27737 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Starrett Micrometer rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Importance: Normal The information on this site was most helpful. However, on my micrometer, Ihave a third scale on the thimble. I think this is called the vernierscale. Are each of those divisions .001"? Thanks, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer Alec,Try this for starters.Art http://deepcnet.usi.edu/engintech/machasst/meastool/readmic.htm (It's got PICTURES!) from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jun 9 12:01:36 2000 e59H1aG28096 Subject: Bamboo guitar The Wed. newspaper had an article about Yamaha makinga guitar out of bamboo. It used 600 strips. Musicianswho tried it said it had an inferior sound. Good for us,I guess. We don't need another industry drying up ourbamboo supply.Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 9 12:07:37 2000 e59H7bG28450 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines Importance: Normal Are the furled leaders hollow, where you could insertthe silk line down the middle? Unfortunately, no. They have a very small loop on the end. Richard from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Fri Jun 9 12:31:13 2000 e59HVCG29166 Subject: Furled Leaders Daryl,I make and used the twined leader here on the owens and like them, much easier to add tippet material. Unfortunatly you do have to use a loop to loop conection but you can make them out of any color you choose and any testthat you choose. The instructions I follow are from Henk Verhaar and he callsthem a twined leader. It is fast and easy to do once you make a jig. His instructions can be found at www.danica.com/mj/tacktech/henk/henk1.htm Tight Lines, Chuck from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Jun 9 12:41:46 2000 e59HfjG29587 Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines On Fri, 9 Jun 2000 DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: On the reccommendation of a couple listers (one of themwas Mr. Silk - Reed Curry) I tried an Orvis braidedleader on one of my silk level lines. It works fairly well. One of the objections I had tobraided leaders was the spray that came off of them whenI false casted over the fish. Saturating the leader withMucilin helped that problem a lot. Or use the one that is impregnated (probably with wax). I used the Airflobrand all last week in the Catskills, no spray. Did have the Orvisbraid on another reel and when I used it, had to grease it up. Attaching the leaderwas fairly easy by cutting off the loop of the leader,and feeding the silk line down the middle of the leader push sections of it together. I then whip finished the end of the leader that overlapped the silk line. There are little plastic sleeves (clear & colors) that eliminate the whipfinish step. Cutting the end of the silk line at an angle helped make a smoother transition. The leader ends in a loop and attaching a tippit by the loop to loop method makes changing a tippit a few second job. I think this smooth "Chinese Finger" transition is nice. You can alsoneedle knot a larger piece of tippet on the small end and step down fromthere if you can't live with any loops. One thing I think would help is if Orvis made a braidedleader out of clear nylon line instead of the dark lineit is now made from. Airflo has it. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://flysupplies.homepage.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Jun 9 12:43:48 2000 e59HhmG29711 Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines On Fri, 9 Jun 2000 DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Are the furled leaders hollow, where you could insertthe silk line down the middle?Darryl No, looped. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://flysupplies.homepage.com from Oozakgpt@aol.com Fri Jun 9 12:53:07 2000 e59Hr6G00186 Subject: Varnish volume Have a 5' drip tube setup 2" in diameter.Approximatley how much varnish will I need to fill it?TIA Greg Taliani from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 9 12:55:14 2000 e59HtDG00332 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Charles Ritz Importance: Normal Would anyone have tapers for parabolic rods designed by Charles Ritz orPezon and Michel? Thanks, Richard from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri Jun 9 13:03:16 2000 e59I3FG00683 Subject: Re: Charles Ritz Richard There is several listed at: I've made the C.Ritz Super Parabolic PPP Colorado, posted by MortenLoevstad.It seemed to be a little heavy in the tip, but its a great rod for the"big" rivers i fish.I use a DT4 line, but it will easily handle a #5 as well. regardsdanny Richard Nantel wrote: Would anyone have tapers for parabolic rods designed by Charles Ritz orPezon and Michel? Thanks, Richard from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri Jun 9 13:07:53 2000 e59I7qG00928 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Radial Bamboo splitters I have a book on rodbuilding, written by a danish author, he use a bamboosplitterlike that.I've never tried it, but he claims it work great.... regardsdanny Alec Stansell wrote: Hey Folks,FYI: Check out these nice bamboo froes and unusual radial bamboosplittersat the following website: http://insiderweb.com/bamboo_tools.htm I have no affiliation... etc. Just did a search for bamboo froes andcameup with this. Interesting idea - would it work for rodmakers? I wonder...might have to get one and try. Cheers, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri Jun 9 13:08:37 2000 e59I8aG01020 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Radial Bamboo splitters I have a book on rodbuilding, written by a danish author, he use a bamboosplitterlike that.I've never tried it, but he claims it work great.... regardsdanny Alec Stansell wrote: Hey Folks,FYI: Check out these nice bamboo froes and unusual radial bamboosplittersat the following website: http://insiderweb.com/bamboo_tools.htm I have no affiliation... etc. Just did a search for bamboo froes andcameup with this. Interesting idea - would it work for rodmakers? I wonder...might have to get one and try. Cheers, from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri Jun 9 13:11:23 2000 e59IBMG01289 Subject: Re: Poem Thanks for all Your suggestions on what to do with this poet.....This was his last reply........ regardsdanny Paradise On Earth. earliertorturists usedtostick smallplants of bamboointoprisoners ass thebamboo was growingeightinches a day andturned their organsto amass apainfull way to die ! thosetimes are past, atleastI thought though,not entirely I'm told todaythey use a stick called cane totorture young and old theysend them outto getsome food catchfish with this wooden cane neck andshoulders aceswhenthey pitch and thebrain goes totally in sane apainfull way to live ! tocomfortcane-victims I'll promise you this inheaven He knows ofyou,ignorant sods God willprovide youwithdecent equipment He'llhand youblessedgraphite rods agreatful death ! forme, however,who useSage rods thereare no rush for heaven Ifeel no pain,foundParadise On Earth soonyou'll see me with graphite 7 Ichoose glory on earth ! from anglport@con2.com Fri Jun 9 13:39:14 2000 e59IdDG02419 ESMTP(SMTPD32-6.00) id A91620FF033A; Fri, 09 Jun 2000 14:36:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Varnish volume Greg,It's "Pi" R squared X Height for the volume. That'd be 3.14 X 1" (squared) X 60", or 188.4 cu. inches. My gallon cans are 6 1/2" wide by 7 1/2" high so I figure they're 3.14 X 3.25 (squared) X 7.5, or about 248.75 cu. inches.So you can get a gallon, use 3/4 of it, fill it with CO2 per the Wood article I mentioned the other day, and save the rest for next year, when the volume drops due to all the rods you'll be dipping!Best,Art I have WAY too much time on my hands!Art 01:52 PM 06/09/2000 -0400, Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote:Have a 5' drip tube setup 2" in diameter.Approximatley how much varnishwillI need to fill it?TIA Greg Taliani from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Jun 9 14:01:35 2000 e59J1YG02929 Subject: Re: Poem Just tell your friend that a closed mind is and empty mind. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Poem Thanks for all Your suggestions on what to do with this poet.....This was his last reply........ regardsdanny [snip] from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Jun 9 14:02:46 2000 e59J2kG03070 Subject: Fwd: Varnish volume boundary="part1_3b.5fbc5a8.26729946_boundary" --part1_3b.5fbc5a8.26729946_boundary --part1_3b.5fbc5a8.26729946_boundary Full-name: RMargiotta Subject: Re: Varnish volume Volume of a cylinder = Pi x radius-squared x height= 22/7 x (1" x 1") x 60"= 188.57 cubic inches 1 cubic inch = 0.0173 qts, therefore: 188.57cubic inches = 3.26 qts. Better buy a gallon. --Rich --part1_3b.5fbc5a8.26729946_boundary-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jun 9 15:09:00 2000 e59K90G05277 Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines Another fix just occured to me. The same tung oil - varnish mix that I used to restore the silk line onthe braided leader....Darryl It works fairly well. One of the objections I had tobraided leaders was the spray that came off of themwhen I false casted over the fish. Saturating theleader with Mucilin helped that problem a lot. from richjez@enteract.com Fri Jun 9 16:26:52 2000 e59LQpG07367 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) Subject: Re: Bamboo guitar boundary="=====================_3492014==_.ALT" --=====================_3492014==_.ALT Maybe they did not use Tonkin and that was the problem with its soundRich Jezioro At 12:01 PM 6/9/00, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: The Wed. newspaper had an article about Yamaha makinga guitar out of bamboo. It used 600 strips. Musicianswho tried it said it had an inferior sound. Good for us,I guess. We don't need another industry drying up ourbamboo supply.Darryl *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_3492014==_.ALT Maybe they did not use Tonkin and that was the problemwithits soundRich Jezioro At 12:01 PM 6/9/00, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: The Wed. newspaper had an article aboutYamahamakinga guitar out of bamboo. It used 600 strips. Musicianswho tried it said it had an inferior sound. Good for us,I guess. We don't need another industry drying up ourbamboo supply.Darryl *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_3492014==_.ALT-- from lblove@cableone.net Fri Jun 9 17:51:56 2000 e59MptG09098 Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44);Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:51:43 -0700 , Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer hey Richard, they are the tenths scale(that is what we call it at work), one/one tenthousandth of an inch or 1/10000" or .0001". hope this helpsBrad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Starrett Micrometer The information on this site was most helpful. However, on my micrometer,Ihave a third scale on the thimble. I think this is called the vernierscale. Are each of those divisions .001"? Thanks, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Starrett Micrometer Alec,Try this for starters.Art http://deepcnet.usi.edu/engintech/machasst/meastool/readmic.htm (It's got PICTURES!) from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jun 9 17:55:41 2000 e59MtcG09248 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:56:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnish volume You could also just fill the tube with water, and measure the amount whenyou drain it out. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Varnish volume Greg,It's "Pi" R squared X Height for the volume. That'd be 3.14 X 1"(squared) X 60", or 188.4 cu. inches. My gallon cans are 6 1/2" wide by 71/2" high so I figure they're 3.14 X 3.25 (squared) X 7.5, or about 248.75cu. inches.So you can get a gallon, use 3/4 of it, fill it with CO2 per theWood article I mentioned the other day, and save the rest for next year,when the volume drops due to all the rods you'll be dipping!Best,Art I have WAY too much time on my hands!Art 01:52 PM 06/09/2000 -0400, Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote:Have a 5' drip tube setup 2" in diameter.Approximatley how much varnishwillI need to fill it?TIA Greg Taliani from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 9 19:16:59 2000 e5A0GxG10142 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Bamboo guitar rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_qn0fWQEZuvfrGhHmZ3ueqQ)"Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_qn0fWQEZuvfrGhHmZ3ueqQ) ;-)-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo guitar Maybe they did not use Tonkin and that was the problem with its soundRich Jezioro At 12:01 PM 6/9/00, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: The Wed. newspaper had an article about Yamaha makinga guitar out of bamboo. It used 600 strips. Musicianswho tried it said it had an inferior sound. Good for us,I guess. We don't need another industry drying up ourbamboo supply.Darryl *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > >))):> --Boundary_(ID_qn0fWQEZuvfrGhHmZ3ueqQ) this guitar built nodeless? ;-) JezioroSent: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:25 DNHayashida@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:Re: = guitarMaybe they did not use = was the problem with its soundRich JezioroAt 12:01 PM = DNHayashida@aol.com wrote:The Wed. newspaper had an article about= makinga guitar out of bamboo. It used 600 strips. = it said it had an inferior sound. Good for us,I guess. We don't = = = = --Boundary_(ID_qn0fWQEZuvfrGhHmZ3ueqQ)-- from gholland@uswest.net Fri Jun 9 19:18:21 2000 e5A0IJG10248 (207.225.17.135) Subject: Re: Furled Leaders The furled leader is a great way to go, in my opinion. Wouldn't dry fly fishwithout one now. However, having investigated before beginning, I foundClaudeFreaner's article in the FAQ section of the Rodmaker's web site much easiertouse as a guide to get you started. Greg Holland CAIrvinerods@aol.com wrote: Daryl,I make and used the twined leader here on the owens and like them, mucheasier to add tippet material. Unfortunatly you do have to use a loop toloopconection but you can make them out of any color you choose and any testthatyou choose. The instructions I follow are from Henk Verhaar and he callsthema twined leader. It is fast and easy to do once you make a jig. Hisinstructions can be found atwww.danica.com/mj/tacktech/henk/henk1.htm Tight Lines, Chuck from mep@mint.net Fri Jun 9 19:19:31 2000 e5A0JUG10373 Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:19:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamps As a former scientist, physician, and tinkerer I can't believe nor have I everheard of an alcohol lamp exploding! I suppose if you put something other thanalcohol in it it would. I still plan on using mine. Mike Paradise52@aol.com wrote: Dear List Members,I just wanted to inform members of the possible dangers involved in usingalcohol lamps. I have been an art teacher for many years and a colleaguewhoteaches science told me that alcohol lamps were very dangerous and couldhavethe potential of exploding! This came as news to me since I used theminsteadof candles for heating special miniature wax melting pens (used in the oldcraft of Ukranian Easter egg painting). The pens were designed to holdmeltedwax. The wax would flow from a brass tip attached to a small reservoir.Anyway, since he informed me of this, I've been using candles for the last5years or so. I did'nt wish to have that kind of liability in a school, sothe alcohol lamps (so much for soot free wax melting) have gone intostorage.I just thought for the benefit of all, it might be a good idea to inform you.Since he has been teaching science for about 25 years or so, I took hisword as one coming from a reliable source. If anyone is aware ofinformationthat refutes this, please let me know, as the alcohol lamps were muchbetter Regards,Mark Paradise from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri Jun 9 23:39:15 2000 e5A4dEG12938 Subject: RE: Bamboo guitarPriority: normal Date sent: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 19:36:42 -0400 Subject: RE: Bamboo guitar rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Was this guitar built nodeless? apparently it was built noteless! ;-)-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo guitar Maybe they did not use Tonkin and that was the problem with itssound Rich Jezioro At 12:01 PM 6/9/00, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: The Wed. newspaper had an article about Yamaha makinga guitar out of bamboo. It used 600 strips. Musicianswho tried it said it had an inferior sound. Good for us,I guess. We don't need another industry drying up ourbamboo supply.Darryl *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > / \ > >))):> from mikeg@micronet.net Sat Jun 10 04:17:36 2000 e5A9HZG15132 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2.2); Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:17:39 -0800User- Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: FW: Varnish volume ---------- Subject: Re: Varnish volume from the Archives..Darryl Subject: Dip tube volume New list member deluking that can perhaps offer some help (feelsgreat to have info when on a new list). Although PVC pipe has slightlydifferent tolerances then steel the following is still pretty close: 2" Sch 40 (std wt) .174 gal per foot of length2" Sch 80 (XS) .154 - do -2 1/2" Sch 40 .248 - do -2 1/2" Sch 80 .220 - do -3" Sch 40 .384 - do -3" Sch 80 .344 - do -4" Sch 40 .661 - do -4" Sch 80 .597 - do - All pipe is referenced by "nominal size" which means, in effect, forgetall you ever knew about sizing. A 2" pipe is actually 2 3/8" O.D. ItsI.D. will vary according to its wall thickness and the tol. applied toit. The above should cover PVC readily obtaibable at "doit toit"home supply places. If you need more information on other sizes Ican furnish them. Hope it helps. Jack Tucker Fly fishing is an art form,jart@epix.net go practice your craft. From: Oozakgpt@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:52:16 EDT Subject: Varnish volume Have a 5' drip tube setup 2" in diameter.Approximatley how much varnishwillI need to fill it?TIA Greg Taliani from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jun 10 09:04:28 2000 e5AE4RG18384 Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:04:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamps Might want to read Michael Sinclair's article in one of the first issues of TheBamboo Fly Rod. Ever since I read that, I've been pretty careful when singe-ingwraps. Harry mep wrote: As a former scientist, physician, and tinkerer I can't believe nor have I everheard of an alcohol lamp exploding! I suppose if you put something otherthanalcohol in it it would. I still plan on using mine. Mike Paradise52@aol.com wrote: Dear List Members,I just wanted to inform members of the possible dangers involved in usingalcohol lamps. I have been an art teacher for many years and a colleaguewhoteaches science told me that alcohol lamps were very dangerous andcould havethe potential of exploding! This came as news to me since I used theminsteadof candles for heating special miniature wax melting pens (used in the oldcraft of Ukranian Easter egg painting). The pens were designed to holdmeltedwax. The wax would flow from a brass tip attached to a small reservoir.Anyway, since he informed me of this, I've been using candles for thelast 5years or so. I did'nt wish to have that kind of liability in a school, sothe alcohol lamps (so much for soot free wax melting) have gone intostorage.I just thought for the benefit of all, it might be a good idea to inform you.Since he has been teaching science for about 25 years or so, I took hisword as one coming from a reliable source. If anyone is aware ofinformationthat refutes this, please let me know, as the alcohol lamps were muchbetter Regards,Mark Paradise --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jun 10 11:37:42 2000 e5AGbfG20261 Subject: Rod balance, revisited Friends,Not long ago, Darryl H. (I think) started a threadon balancing a rod just in front of the cork, and it got methinking.I've just finished a pair of nine-weight rods forbig fish. One is an 8'6" hollow built 9 weight based on ataper I modified from those shared with me by Tom Smithwickand Bob Nunley. Total weight is 6.2 ounces. I built aremovable fighting butt that brings the weight up to 7ounces.The other rod is strictly a back-up, as evidenced bythe fact that it's plastic :-O!! It's a nine footer, andweighs 4.2 ounces. With the fighting butt, it weight 5ounces.Here's my observation: With line extended, thebamboo rod balances perfectly right in front of the griponly when the fighting butt is added. The graphite rodbalances perfectly w/o the fighting butt. Same reel, sameline, etc. BOTH rods cast best when the balance is rightthere, in front of the grip. And even though it's 2 ouncesheavier, the bamboo rod casts better. Any comments? Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jun 10 11:51:07 2000 e5AGp6G20523 Subject: Alcohol lamps Sorry, folks -- I wrongly attributed an accident w/an alcohol lamp to Michael Sinclair. A check of my memoryshows it was Don Schroeder. Here's a quote from TBFR,May/June 1998: "One morning three years ago I learned a hardlesson. I went down to my shop as I do every day and pulleda piece of cane from the rack, inspected it, and began flametreatment for straightening it, with the method I have beenusing since I started making bamboo fly rods twenty yearsago. Nothing unusual here and everything went normally.After the cane cooled, I split the culm, arranged the stripson the bench to be cut to length and then prepared tostraighten the nodes. I got the alcohol lamp from thecabinet, checked the fuel level, "flicked my Bic" to thelamp's wick, and the only thing I remember is a loud "KAPOW"and everything went black for seconds."When I opened my eyes, I saw that my paperwork onthe shelf over my workbench was on fire. Luckily, one ofthe first safety additions to my shop was a fireextinguisher, and yes I had begrudged its cost thinking Iwould never use it. After putting the fire out, I juststood there. My eyebrows and lashes were scorched, my faceslightly singed and I was thoroughly rattled. I never knewthat an alcohol lamp could explode. I was not reallyconcerned about "why" it had happened; I just knew I wouldno longer have one in my workshop." Sorry to attribute this to Michael instead of Don.Guess it goes to show that accidents can and do happen;sometimes unexplainably. There are lots of ways to hurtyourself when making rods. Most of us have sliced fingersand other scars to show for our love of making rods.I don't know what happened with Don's accident.(Are you on the list, Don?) But now I always turn my headwhen lighting my alcohol lamp.... Better safe than sorry,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from stpete@netten.net Sat Jun 10 11:57:41 2000 e5AGveG20749 Subject: Quad Forms I'm seriously thinking about making some steel quad forms. Any adviceout there from some who have bought or made some? I have questionsabout things like: 1. Should I make two 2-bar sets, one left, one right? or should I tryto make a 3-bar set with the center bar being the beveled bar and astraight bar on the left and the right? 2. If I go with the center bevelled 3 bar set, will adjusting one sideknock the other side out of tolerance? 3. Best ideas for adjusting 3-bar set. Use a push-pull system orGarrison differential screw? 4. Ideas for beveling the bar. TIA,Rick C. from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Sat Jun 10 12:36:17 2000 e5AHaGG21427 helo=stans.tiac.net) Subject: Engraved buttcaps Hey Folks,Does anyone know of a source where I could order n/s buttcaps with acustom engraving or die-stamp - kinda the same idea as the old Payne rods.Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jun 10 13:22:19 2000 e5AIMIG22115 Subject: Planing forms. Just some info before using new planing forms.Check them out for 60*I purchased a new set of forms that were costumemade for a rodmaker. He had two sets made up anddid not need the second set so he offered them tome at a reasonable price. I thought it would be atime saver to have another set of forms to go withmy homemade forms that I could set up for tips andbutts.I had made 12 rods on my homemade forms withoutany glue lines. Rod 13 ended up with glue lines inthe butt section, made another butt section andthe same thing. Butt section #3 on the new formsalso had glue lines, these lines were in about thesame place on the butts. I decided to check theform and sure enough there are places that areless than 60*. That is where the glue lines are onthe butts. Lots of time lost and wasted bamboo. Ican true it up with a triangle file but if I hadchecked it before I started it would of saved alot of aggravation.Hope this might help someone else that can't seemto get rid of the glue lines.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Jun 10 13:54:01 2000 e5AIs0G22732 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Engraved buttcaps Importance: Normal Wayne Cattanuch books had mentioned a source, I seem to recall. I was just browsing thru my book last night.... Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message----- Subject: Engraved buttcaps Hey Folks,Does anyone know of a source where I could order n/s buttcaps with acustom engraving or die-stamp - kinda the same idea as the old Payne rods.Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from brewer@teleport.com Sat Jun 10 15:10:50 2000 e5AKAnG23562 (216.26.32.89) Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps Alec, the folks at REC mention that service in their brochure. www.reccomponents.com -Randy ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Engraved buttcaps Hey Folks,Does anyone know of a source where I could order n/s buttcaps with acustom engraving or die-stamp - kinda the same idea as the old Paynerods.Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from rvenneri@ulster.net Sat Jun 10 16:36:52 2000 e5ALapG24644 Organization: Venneri's Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps Alec Stansell wrote: Hey Folks,Does anyone know of a source where I could order n/s buttcaps with acustom engraving or die-stamp - kinda the same idea as the old Paynerods.Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociationAlec,I can have caps engraved for you if all you need is 3 letters. I alsoknow an engraver that will do logos but its a bit more money. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882rvenneri@ulster.nethttp://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Sat Jun 10 17:19:10 2000 e5AMJAG25215 15:22:06 PDT Subject: Leftover Bamboo What do you guys who make a lot of rods do with the bamboo scraps? Withmy methods I typically have an 8"-15" piece from the very butt and the top2'-4' of a 12' culm. I was told by one musician that bamboo can be used for reeds in windinstruments? I recently sent a few of the 4' half culms to a longbow maker to see if thepower fibers and the circumference were adequate for backing a compositebow. I haven't heard back yet so the jury is still out on that one. Does anyone have other ideas to utilize this stuff to the fullest extent? Ihate to throw it away if it has another use. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jun 10 19:06:11 2000 e5B06AG26323 Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:06:07 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps Alec,I know Russ at Golden Witch carries a line of reel seats made by CSEthat has the Payne style bulls eye stamped in it. He may be able to help yououtwith butt caps as well. Only others I could think of is David Leclair or RobertVennari are both very helpful and might have something. Hope this helpssome. Shawn Pineo Alec Stansell wrote: Hey Folks,Does anyone know of a source where I could order n/s buttcaps with acustom engraving or die-stamp - kinda the same idea as the old Paynerods.Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jun 10 19:18:09 2000 e5B0I8G26585 Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:18:05 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Leftover Bamboo Chris,I had planned on saving this idea for myself, but, after your question Idecided to share with everyone. What I am doing is making pen and pencils from my scraps. I sign them, put a brass cap on them, andvarnish. You can add some decorative silk windings if you like. signed)They are built the same as a non tapered, short rod would be. Then justtake down the apex and be sure no glue is in the hollow shaft.(Titebond isgood for this application)The rest is fairly self explanatory. There I go again giving away tradesecrets!Enjoy,Shawn Pineo CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: What do you guys who make a lot of rods do with the bamboo scraps? Withmy methods I typically have an 8"-15" piece from the very butt and the top2'-4' of a 12' culm. I was told by one musician that bamboo can be used for reeds in windinstruments? I recently sent a few of the 4' half culms to a longbow maker to see if thepower fibers and the circumference were adequate for backing a compositebow. I haven't heard back yet so the jury is still out on that one. Does anyone have other ideas to utilize this stuff to the fullest extent? Ihate to throw it away if it has another use. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jun 10 19:38:34 2000 e5B0cXG26894 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Back from PA While everyone is getting ready for Grayling ( sadly I will mostlikely miss it again this year!) I bask in the memories of my trip toReading PA. Not so much for the city but for the fishing I enjoyed aswell as the company I had the pleasure of keeping while I was visiting.I only managed to fish the Tulpenhoken creek while there but had ablast any way. I released beautiful Rainbow after Rainbow on a morning,afternoon, and evening caddis hatch/feeding frenzy.I visited the wonderful TCO shop (after a 1 1/2 hour walk thereand another 1 1/2 hour walk back in the pouring rain), I decided to renta car for my journey to Hopeland to visit Russ Gooding of Golden Witchand his family.Russ has a shop I would give off my left tes...... OK maybe notquite that nice, but I would love to have it! I could have went AWOLright there and just stayed on to fish, droll over the tools,accessories and RODS!!!!!I had dreamed of fishing in PA for as long as I can remember, myonly disappointment was that i couldn't stay longer, Missed the Lehighmeeting and George Mauer.Thanks for all the advice, pre trip guys!ShawnPineo from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Jun 10 19:39:01 2000 e5B0d0G26972 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Leftover Bamboo Importance: Normal Make some 12-18 tip sections for Don Burns so he can scarf some rods... Including one of mine... Or make chopsticks? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- MCDOWELL Subject: Leftover Bamboo What do you guys who make a lot of rods do with the bamboo scraps? Withmymethods I typically have an 8"-15" piece from the very butt and the top2'-4' of a 12' culm. I was told by one musician that bamboo can be used for reeds in windinstruments? I recently sent a few of the 4' half culms to a longbow maker to see if thepower fibers and the circumference were adequate for backing a compositebow. I haven't heard back yet so the jury is still out on that one. Does anyone have other ideas to utilize this stuff to the fullest extent? Ihate to throw it away if it has another use. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from cathcreek@hotmail.com Sat Jun 10 19:56:33 2000 e5B0uXG27272 Sat, 10 Jun 2000 17:56:30 PDT Subject: Re: Leftover Bamboo bagpipe reeds. Not sure how to make them yet, but watch out! Rob From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: Leftover BambooDate: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:22:05 PDT What do you guys who make a lot of rods do with the bamboo scraps? Withmy methods I typically have an 8"-15" piece from the very butt and the top 2'-4' of a 12' culm. I was told by one musician that bamboo can be used for reeds in wind instruments? I recently sent a few of the 4' half culms to a longbow maker to see if the power fibers and the circumference were adequate for backing a composite bow. I haven't heard back yet so the jury is still out on that one. Does anyone have other ideas to utilize this stuff to the fullest extent? I hate to throw it away if it has another use. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jun 10 20:57:50 2000 e5B1vnG27813 Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:07:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Leftover Bamboo I make dubbing needle handles from the cut off ends of the blank and made alanding net frame from some of the scrap. I gave the frame away but plan onmaking some more when I get the time.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote: Chris,I had planned on saving this idea for myself, but, after your questionI decided to share with everyone. What I am doing is making pen and pencils from my scraps. I sign them, put a brass cap on them, andvarnish. You can add some decorative silk windings if you like. signed)They are built the same as a non tapered, short rod would be. Then justtake down the apex and be sure no glue is in the hollow shaft.(Titebond isgood for this application)The rest is fairly self explanatory. There I go again giving away tradesecrets!Enjoy,Shawn Pineo CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: What do you guys who make a lot of rods do with the bamboo scraps? With my methods I typically have an 8"-15" piece from the very butt and thetop 2'-4' of a 12' culm. I was told by one musician that bamboo can be used for reeds in windinstruments? I recently sent a few of the 4' half culms to a longbow maker to see ifthe power fibers and the circumference were adequate for backing acomposite bow. I haven't heard back yet so the jury is still out on that one. Does anyone have other ideas to utilize this stuff to the fullest extent? I hate to throw it away if it has another use. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sat Jun 10 22:19:19 2000 e5B3JJG28449 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sun, 11 Jun 2000 03:19:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Leftover Bamboo Hey Chris, Ever grow tomatoes? They make great stakes for seedlings. My mom isalways asking me for cutoffs from my rodmaking strips for her plants. Dennis CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: What do you guys who make a lot of rods do with the bamboo scraps? Withmy methods I typically have an 8"-15" piece from the very butt and the top2'-4' of a 12' culm. I was told by one musician that bamboo can be used for reeds in windinstruments? I recently sent a few of the 4' half culms to a longbow maker to see if thepower fibers and the circumference were adequate for backing a compositebow. I haven't heard back yet so the jury is still out on that one. Does anyone have other ideas to utilize this stuff to the fullest extent? Ihate to throw it away if it has another use. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from lars32@gateway.net Sat Jun 10 22:25:28 2000 e5B3PRG28662 Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps There is a chain outfit called "Things Remebered" in all the malls hereabouts that will engrave initials on a butt cap. They charged me five bucksto do it a couple of years ago. You might check the malls for somethingsimilar.Dave Norling -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps Alec,I know Russ at Golden Witch carries a line of reel seats made byCSEthat has the Payne style bulls eye stamped in it. He may be able to helpyou outwith butt caps as well. Only others I could think of is David Leclair orRobertVennari are both very helpful and might have something. Hope this helpssome. Shawn Pineo Alec Stansell wrote: Hey Folks,Does anyone know of a source where I could order n/s buttcapswith acustom engraving or die-stamp - kinda the same idea as the old Paynerods.Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from if6were9@bellsouth.net Sun Jun 11 01:06:17 2000 e5B66GG00172 Subject: Re: Rod balance, revisited I've been fiddling with balance in fishing rods for quite a while andwhat I've learned is this. The actual weight of the rig (within reason)is not as important as the perceived weight when held in the normalfishing position. The closer you bring a rod to perfect balance, thelighter it feels when used. A well balanced spinning or casting rigwill deliver much improved distance without any extra effort or loss ofaccuracy. In fly tackle, the only advantage I've found to tinkeringwith balance is that the closer you can come to neutral when held in thenormal way, the longer you can fish with it before your arm goes out. Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Not long ago, Darryl H. (I think) started a threadon balancing a rod just in front of the cork, and it got methinking.I've just finished a pair of nine-weight rods forbig fish. One is an 8'6" hollow built 9 weight based on ataper I modified from those shared with me by Tom Smithwickand Bob Nunley. Total weight is 6.2 ounces. I built aremovable fighting butt that brings the weight up to 7ounces.The other rod is strictly a back-up, as evidenced bythe fact that it's plastic :-O!! It's a nine footer, andweighs 4.2 ounces. With the fighting butt, it weight 5ounces.Here's my observation: With line extended, thebamboo rod balances perfectly right in front of the griponly when the fighting butt is added. The graphite rodbalances perfectly w/o the fighting butt. Same reel, sameline, etc. BOTH rods cast best when the balance is rightthere, in front of the grip. And even though it's 2 ouncesheavier, the bamboo rod casts better. Any comments? Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from if6were9@bellsouth.net Sun Jun 11 01:12:21 2000 e5B6CKG00394 Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps Check with your local fine jeweler. Most of them would be happy to do it, foranominal fee of course. Alec Stansell wrote: Hey Folks,Does anyone know of a source where I could order n/s buttcaps with acustom engraving or die-stamp - kinda the same idea as the old Paynerods.Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 02:58:24 2000 e5B7wNG01954 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A7BE5C3400E4; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:03:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Richard,Just back from Seoul and noticed your message. Regrettably, the base ofthebaking soda will not have any effect on the non-organic Bakelite (alkydresins)found in all (that I have looked at) modern varnishes. The tung oil is not thevillain, check the can of varnish for alkyd resin content; probably 38% orgreater.Your varnish mix may have been too thick. I was never satisfied until Iwent to this very thin (Formby's) mixture. I believe Darryl had an email amonth back about a varnish/oil mix he found adequate for silk lines.Larry Blan has a method for removing modern varnish from silk. Seebelow: Subject:Yeeee Haaaaaaa! Was Fly LineDate:Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:14:25 - 0500From:"Larry Blan" "reed curry" 1/2 hour so far, and it is going great. I think it will be pristine when I'mfinished. Took two fills, one to wash and one to rinse... about 16 ouncestotal, and I was generous with the MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone). I have tobelieve that without the ultrasonic, there would be a fair amount of wipinginvolved. I may still have some cleanup to do, but I really think theultrasonic is removing it from inside the coil just as well as from theouter layers. I find it in just about any hardware store, in the same section where youfind denatured alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. I have to believe that laquerthinner would work as well, and it is a bit cheaper. MEK has been touted as a carcinogen. Seriously, it is bad stuff... wellventilated area, etc... also very highlyflammable, just like any other solvent that works well! I normally use thisoutside, unless I'm just using a drop or two to clean something. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:42 PM Subject: Re: Fly Line Larry,It sounds like you have a workable approach. Where cansomeone buy MEK? Itsounds serious enough to require clearance from the NSA.Best regards,Reed Larry Blan wrote: Got the line today. Thanks! I took it over to the shop side of the basement and looked around forsomething nasty... spied my can of MEK, and thought I'd give it a try. Ireasoned (incorrectly or not) that the silk, being a naturalmaterial wouldnot be damaged by it. A 2-3 second dunk and a wipe with a paper towelremoved 90% of the coating. A second 2-3 second immersion leftit clean downto the braid. I've got a few things to do for the wife, and then I will look at the 6"section I worked on, inspecting for damage to the silk. Myfirst thought forcleaning the entire line is to fill a small container with MEK, fill myultrasonic cleaner with water, put the container on the shelfand take thewhole mess outside. If the MEK does not damage the silk, thisshould take itout *completely*, with a minimum of time spent on my part. Richard Nantel wrote: As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silk lines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water technique to restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decided to mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with the results so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I've decided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking soda method. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I let the line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard --Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 03:02:16 2000 e5B82FG02168 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8A6559700DC; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:07:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines Darryl,Just another reason to carry a candle stub in your fishing vest. Run thebraided leader through thecandle stub and it will float and not absorb water. It might be a touch stifferthan you like for thefirst few casts.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: On the reccommendation of a couple listers (one of themwas Mr. Silk - Reed Curry) I tried an Orvis braidedleader on one of my silk level lines. It works fairly well. One of the objections I had tobraided leaders was the spray that came off of them whenI false casted over the fish. Saturating the leader withMucilin helped that problem a lot. from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 03:08:57 2000 e5B88uG02412 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA3655B600DC; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:13:42 -0400 Subject: Re: level silk lines field reportReferences: Bob,I'm amazed that the line was sinking after just two hours. If I use just abit of Mucilin before I drive to the stream, and wipe off all excess, I havefound that four to six hours of fishing is possible. Of course, this may alsodepend on an individual's fishing style, the type of fly (wet or dry), thetype of water, etc.What results have others' had?--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ bob maulucci wrote: We had some discussion a few weeks back about the use of level silk lines.I would suggest that if you find one, keep it. Darryl and others are rightwhen they say they work fine. After several months of lawn casting the various level lines I have lyingaround, I finally bought some red tin (actually plastic) Mucilin and wentto the stream for a spinner fall.I fished a level 4 wt. line I had redone (see Reed's site) and used a 12'Orvis braided floating leader. I did not try the 9' Orvis version, but itwould be fine, I am sure. The braided leader created a quite acceptablefront taper and turned the fly over for a nice soft landing. I cannot tellyou how pleasurable it was. Better floatation and presentation. I fishedthe line for a good 2 hours without even wiping it off, and it performedwell. Now I need to work on prolonging the floatation. I already have thebig loop in the backing, but I switched to my PVC line instead of flippingit over.I had known how nice the line cast and shoot through the guides of myDriggs, but fishing it was by far the best of all. If this is so good, Ican't wait to get my Phoenix DT line next month.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Jun 11 03:18:05 2000 e5B8I2G02721 Subject: Leftover bamboo Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD3D0.A4296DA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD3D0.A4296DA0 I have never done it myself, but would have thought that the obvious =thing would be to stick 'em all together and build a nodeless rod out of =them. Remember the motto of the nodeless builders -"No matter how grotty,No matter how short;No matter what methodsOf craft you were taught - Nor send them to God;Just glue 'em togetherAnd "Bingo!" - a rod! :-D Peter ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD3D0.A4296DA0 I have never done it myself, but would = that the obvious thing would be to stick 'em all together and build a = rod out of them. Remember the motto of the nodeless builders =-"No matter how grotty,No matter how short;No matter whatmethodsOf craft you were taught - Don't prop up tomatoes Nor send them to God;Just glue 'em togetherAnd "Bingo!" - a rod! :- Peter ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD3D0.A4296DA0-- from bh887@lafn.org Sun Jun 11 03:34:23 2000 e5B8YMG03139 forged)) (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be a seriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as one instance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant still using thatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous. DO NOT foolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few other bannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your body won't helpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of any sort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and well ventilated spaceto work in. Lee Freeman----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Richard,Just back from Seoul and noticed your message. Regrettably, the baseof thebaking soda will not have any effect on the non-organic Bakelite (alkydresins)found in all (that I have looked at) modern varnishes. The tung oil isnot thevillain, check the can of varnish for alkyd resin content; probably 38% orgreater.Your varnish mix may have been too thick. I was never satisfied untilIwent to this very thin (Formby's) mixture. I believe Darryl had an email amonth back about a varnish/oil mix he found adequate for silk lines.Larry Blan has a method for removing modern varnish from silk. Seebelow: Subject:Yeeee Haaaaaaa! Was Fly LineDate:Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:14:25 - 0500From:"Larry Blan" "reed curry" 1/2 hour so far, and it is going great. I think it will be pristine whenI'mfinished. Took two fills, one to wash and one to rinse... about 16 ouncestotal, and I was generous with the MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone). I have tobelieve that without the ultrasonic, there would be a fair amount ofwipinginvolved. I may still have some cleanup to do, but I really think theultrasonic is removing it from inside the coil just as well as from theouter layers. I find it in just about any hardware store, in the same section where youfind denatured alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. I have to believe thatlaquerthinner would work as well, and it is a bit cheaper. MEK has been touted as a carcinogen. Seriously, it is bad stuff... wellventilated area, etc... also very highlyflammable, just like any other solvent that works well! I normally usethisoutside, unless I'm just using a drop or two to clean something. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:42 PM Subject: Re: Fly Line Larry,It sounds like you have a workable approach. Where cansomeone buy MEK? Itsounds serious enough to require clearance from the NSA.Best regards,Reed Larry Blan wrote: Got the line today. Thanks! I took it over to the shop side of the basement and looked around forsomething nasty... spied my can of MEK, and thought I'd give it a try.Ireasoned (incorrectly or not) that the silk, being a naturalmaterial wouldnot be damaged by it. A 2-3 second dunk and a wipe with a paper towelremoved 90% of the coating. A second 2-3 second immersion leftit clean downto the braid. I've got a few things to do for the wife, and then I will look at the6"section I worked on, inspecting for damage to the silk. Myfirst thought forcleaning the entire line is to fill a small container with MEK, fillmyultrasonic cleaner with water, put the container on the shelfand take thewhole mess outside. If the MEK does not damage the silk, thisshould take itout *completely*, with a minimum of time spent on my part. Richard Nantel wrote: As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silk linesrecently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water technique to restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decided to mix myownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with the results soordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I've decided toremovethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking soda method.Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I let the linesoak suggestions? Thanks, Richard --Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 03:50:14 2000 e5B8oDG03596 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A3E545B300B0; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:55:01 -0400 Subject: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Jun 11 05:29:43 2000 e5BATeG04521 Subject: Engraving Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFD3E3.08EC3D00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFD3E3.08EC3D00 You have to be very clear what you want with engraving. If you go to a franchised operator in a mall, you will get accurate, =reliable work, and it will be very neat; but it will NOT be 'engraving'. It will be carving with a burr. That's fine if that's what you are =paying for and if that's what you want. If you think that your rod needs more bespoke workmanship than that, you =must go to an engraver who actually graves the letters with a graving =tool, and frankly they are about as scarce as rocking horse shit these =days - but a real good place to start looking is at your local gunsmith. Sorry if my predjudice shows through here, but I firmly believe that the =last bastions of wood/metal craftmanship in the year 2000 are founded in =the bamboo rod craft, and in true firearms engraving. You have put 60-80 hours into this rod. You don't want 3 letters for =five bucks in a mall! I actually don't know what the appropriate "smiley" is to get myself out =of this one. Sorrry. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFD3E3.08EC3D00 You have to be very clear what youwant = engraving. If you go to a franchised operator in a = will get accurate, reliable work, and it will be very neat; but it will = 'engraving'. It will be carving with a burr. That's = that's what you are paying for and if that's what you want. If you think that your rod needs more = workmanship than that, you must go to an engraver who actually graves = letters with a graving tool, and frankly they are about as scarce as = horse shit these days - but a real good place to start looking is at = gunsmith. Sorry if my predjudice shows through = engraving. You have put 60-80 hours into this rod.= want 3 letters for five bucks in a mall! I actually don't know what the = is to get myself out of this one. Sorrry. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFD3E3.08EC3D00-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 06:58:52 2000 e5BBwpG05516 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:58:48 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Reed,Thank you for pointing out J. Castewells challenge. I feel soguilty, ripping off my customers, what was I thinking!I am going to set to work right away to answer his challengeand build that $150 bamboo fly rod........that is as soon as I canlocate a culm of premium bamboo for $4.00 , a quality reel seat for$2.50 , NS ferrules for $5.00 , scarce A+ cork for.01 a ring, a top of the line rod tube/bag for $3.00, best qualityguides, silk thread, and varnish for pocket change, If J could help melocate those components I would be greatly indebted and would be morethan happy to build him a rod!!!Oh and maybe he could transport us all back to a era where mytime is worth$1.00 or so an hour (and my family could actually live on my $40.00 aweek pay check) that would help too!But I suppose then I could never afford to buy all the toolsnesassary for rod building.Has J been frozen in a block of ice for 50 years or something???You can't even buy a good graphite rod(does such a creature exist ?) for$150 and i guarantee there is not 1/20 the amount of work or cost ofmaterials in it. Not to mention the blood, sweat, tears and bit of soulthat it would lack!Even if someone didn't charge for their time, a rod like thiswould be double that price! I wish we could live in this fantasy worldthat J has created. Perhaps he is hoping someone will meet his challengeso he can buy the rod! ;^) Shawn PIneo reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from lblan@provide.net Sun Jun 11 08:30:02 2000 e5BDU2G07090 Subject: RE: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Importance: Normal JC could easily own one of the "classic era" production rods and a silk line recommends so highly. It almost seems that JC started to write a meaningful article, and then gotsidetracked by other issues. I do find it interesting that he makes thestatement; "We now have very fast, inexpensive to make, light in hand rods which willpropel plastic lines properly. Here is what we have lost. A graphite fly rodwith today's best fly lines can not begin to compare to a cane rod ofearlier years and a well dressed silk line. We have also lost the ability Notice that he wrote "inexpensive to make", not "inexpensive" when writingabout plastic rods. The plastic rod manufacturers such as Gatti, do havethose huge advertising costs to recover. Costs such as sponsoring FAOL, forexample. He got the "can not begin to compare" part right too. One of the other interesting points he makes is that "all" the rodmakers aremaking beefed up versions of the classic tapers, to allow them to castplastic flylines. This certainly isn't my take on the situation. This leadsme to believe that JC is pining for a 10' wet fly rod, whose actioncertainly suffers when using modern lines. Karma must be responsible forleading Reed to click on that link. :) If JC shows up at Grayrock, we'll have to ask him about this.... reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jun 11 09:08:21 2000 e5BE8JG07659 "rcurry@ttlc.net" Priority: Normal (5.0.2195) boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963520=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963520=_=_=_ Reed As you know I use the braided leaders - my favorite brand is Beartooth- they come hot wax impregnated and the will turn a fly over better than any otherleader. Now,I just came into a good supply of the Orvis braided leaders that , well let'ssay the pricewas right - about pennies per leader. I used one yesterday on the SpringCreek for Tricosin the AM and there was really no water spray with them when dressed. Itend to use a much shorter leader than most people - my normal leader is 7 1/2 foot andlongestis 9 foot. No need to go longer when you present the fly correctly with agood cane rod.Longer leaders are used to compensate for doing something else wrong! Here is the info on them for those who are interested: Beartooth Flyfishing2975 Hwy 287 N.Cameron, MT 59720(406) 682-7525 Fax: 7796 Chris On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:00:06 -0400, reed curry wrote: Darryl,Just another reason to carry a candle stub in your fishing vest. Run thebraided leader through thecandle stub and it will float and not absorb water. It might be a touchstiffer than you like for thefirst few casts.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: On the reccommendation of a couple listers (one of themwas Mr. Silk - Reed Curry) I tried an Orvis braidedleader on one of my silk level lines. It works fairly well. One of the objections I had tobraided leaders was the spray that came off of them whenI false casted over the fish. Saturating the leader withMucilin helped that problem a lot. --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963520=_=_=_ Reed As you know I use the braided leaders - my favorite brand is Beartooth -they come hot wax impregnated and the will turn a fly over better than any otherleader. Now,I just came into a good supply of the Orvis braided leaders that , well let'ssay the pricewas right - about pennies per leader. I used one yesterday on the SpringCreek for Tricosin the AM and there was really no water spray with them when dressed. Itend to use a much shorter leader than most people - my normal leader is 7 1/2 foot andlongestis 9 foot. No need to go longer when you present the fly correctly with agood cane rod.Longer leaders are used to compensate for doing something else wrong! Here is the info on them for those who are interested: Beartooth Flyfishing2975 Hwy 287 N.Cameron, MT 59720(406) 682-7525 Fax: 7796 Chris On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:00:06 -0400, reed curry wrote: the braided leader through the stiffer than you like for the --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963520=_=_=_-- from channer1@rmi.net Sun Jun 11 09:15:23 2000 e5BEFMG07910 Subject: JC's "challenge" Guys, The take I got on the article was one of "wishfull thinking", not anactual challenge. If you all are wondering what's on his mind, drop bytheir chat room during one of his hosting times, or the Bamboo Chathosted by Ron Kusse (Thursday nites), JC shows up there frequently, andtalk to him about it yourself.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 09:22:43 2000 e5BEMgG08093 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:24:02 -0500 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Shawn the era you are speaking of meant $40/month, was good pay ! When Iwasa kid, you could go see Tom Mix, and get a Baby Ruth, for 6 cents, and therewas a Green Hornet serial too ! Everything is relative ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Reed,Thank you for pointing out J. Castewells challenge. I feel soguilty, ripping off my customers, what was I thinking!I am going to set to work right away to answer his challengeand build that $150 bamboo fly rod........that is as soon as I canlocate a culm of premium bamboo for $4.00 , a quality reel seat for$2.50 , NS ferrules for $5.00 , scarce A+ cork for.01 a ring, a top of the line rod tube/bag for $3.00, best qualityguides, silk thread, and varnish for pocket change, If J could help melocate those components I would be greatly indebted and would be morethan happy to build him a rod!!!Oh and maybe he could transport us all back to a era where mytime is worth$1.00 or so an hour (and my family could actually live on my $40.00 aweek pay check) that would help too!But I suppose then I could never afford to buy all the toolsnesassary for rod building.Has J been frozen in a block of ice for 50 years or something???You can't even buy a good graphite rod(does such a creature exist ?) for$150 and i guarantee there is not 1/20 the amount of work or cost ofmaterials in it. Not to mention the blood, sweat, tears and bit of soulthat it would lack!Even if someone didn't charge for their time, a rod like thiswould be double that price! I wish we could live in this fantasy worldthat J has created. Perhaps he is hoping someone will meet his challengeso he can buy the rod! ;^) Shawn PIneo reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 09:29:25 2000 e5BETOG08271 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:29:21 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" John,That's what I think too, I was just being a little cheeky. Surelyno one would think you can actually build a quality rod for $150. Perhaps acheap knock off using scraps with no labor charges would come close??The thing that intrigues me the most is..... Just what company ishe talking about in the press release???Shawn Pineo channer wrote: Guys,The take I got on the article was one of "wishfull thinking", not anactual challenge. If you all are wondering what's on his mind, drop bytheir chat room during one of his hosting times, or the Bamboo Chathosted by Ron Kusse (Thursday nites), JC shows up there frequently, andtalk to him about it yourself.John from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 09:39:25 2000 e5BEdOG08518 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:39:21 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell George,I wonder, just how many years ago would you have to go back to getthe kind of quality JC is talking about for $150 ??I mean we aren't talking about South Bend or Heddon type qualityhere. It would have to be a Young, Payne, or the sort. When I think back towhenI was young the extent of my bamboo savvy was South Bend, so I havenothing togauge prices on a time line.Perhaps someone out there has some old adds or knowledge of thisandcould give us a list of Quality rods around $150 and the rough date it wasavailable at that price? It sounds like it would be informative and a bit offun!Shawn Pineo nobler wrote: Shawn the era you are speaking of meant $40/month, was good pay ! WhenI wasa kid, you could go see Tom Mix, and get a Baby Ruth, for 6 cents, andtherewas a Green Hornet serial too ! Everything is relative ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: "Rodmakers Listserv" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:54 AMSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Reed,Thank you for pointing out J. Castewells challenge. I feel soguilty, ripping off my customers, what was I thinking!I am going to set to work right away to answer his challengeand build that $150 bamboo fly rod........that is as soon as I canlocate a culm of premium bamboo for $4.00 , a quality reel seat for$2.50 , NS ferrules for $5.00 , scarce A+ cork for.01 a ring, a top of the line rod tube/bag for $3.00, best qualityguides, silk thread, and varnish for pocket change, If J could help melocate those components I would be greatly indebted and would be morethan happy to build him a rod!!!Oh and maybe he could transport us all back to a era where mytime is worth$1.00 or so an hour (and my family could actually live on my $40.00 aweek pay check) that would help too!But I suppose then I could never afford to buy all the toolsnesassary for rod building.Has J been frozen in a block of ice for 50 years or something???You can't even buy a good graphite rod(does such a creature exist ?) for$150 and i guarantee there is not 1/20 the amount of work or cost ofmaterials in it. Not to mention the blood, sweat, tears and bit of soulthat it would lack!Even if someone didn't charge for their time, a rod like thiswould be double that price! I wish we could live in this fantasy worldthat J has created. Perhaps he is hoping someone will meet his challengeso he can buy the rod! ;^) Shawn PIneo reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Jun 11 09:46:18 2000 e5BEkHG08719 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. CastwellPriority: normal Date sent: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:48:05 -0400 Subject: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--it appears to this novice that he dosent know much about cane rods, all the reference to the "old tapers" not being used? How come we go to great lengths to maintain taper archives? I smell a rat. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 09:48:22 2000 e5BEmLG08827 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:49:40 -0500 Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" Actually, what JC says has quite a bit of truth in it, in regard to silklines. The lack of volume is the reason for the high cost, pure and simple.Where he goes "off the wall" is in the cost of a nice CF rod, these arehardly cheap anymore. As always, you get what you pay for ! I have a #10 wt.W&M from FG, I take to salt water when conditions are too rough to subjectmy valued cane to ! I think I paid $14.95 for it ! I also have a little 6-3"Berkeley FG, I got for $30, for my grand kids to learn on. Today these wouldbe $100 +, if they were still made ! He also forgets a basic of using larger guide sizes, on "silk tapers", tocompensate for the larger O.D. plastic lines. It's not as good, but ithelps. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" John,That's what I think too, I was just being a little cheeky. Surelyno one would think you can actually build a quality rod for $150. Perhapsacheap knock off using scraps with no labor charges would come close??The thing that intrigues me the most is..... Just what company ishe talking about in the press release???Shawn Pineo channer wrote: Guys,The take I got on the article was one of "wishfull thinking", not anactual challenge. If you all are wondering what's on his mind, drop bytheir chat room during one of his hosting times, or the Bamboo Chathosted by Ron Kusse (Thursday nites), JC shows up there frequently, andtalk to him about it yourself.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 09:51:10 2000 e5BEpAG08977 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:52:29 -0500 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell When I wasn't yet 20, in the early '50's, PHY rods were $150 ! He built me"kits", with all but the wraps done, for $75 ! The postage was less than 50cents ! You have it right, 50 years ago ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell George,I wonder, just how many years ago would you have to go back togetthe kind of quality JC is talking about for $150 ??I mean we aren't talking about South Bend or Heddon typequalityhere. It would have to be a Young, Payne, or the sort. When I think backto whenI was young the extent of my bamboo savvy was South Bend, so I havenothing togauge prices on a time line.Perhaps someone out there has some old adds or knowledge ofthis andcould give us a list of Quality rods around $150 and the rough date it wasavailable at that price? It sounds like it would be informative and a bitoffun!Shawn Pineo nobler wrote: Shawn the era you are speaking of meant $40/month, was good pay !When Iwasa kid, you could go see Tom Mix, and get a Baby Ruth, for 6 cents, andtherewas a Green Hornet serial too ! Everything is relative ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: "Rodmakers Listserv" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:54 AMSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Reed,Thank you for pointing out J. Castewells challenge. I feel soguilty, ripping off my customers, what was I thinking!I am going to set to work right away to answer his challengeand build that $150 bamboo fly rod........that is as soon as I canlocate a culm of premium bamboo for $4.00 , a quality reel seat for$2.50 , NS ferrules for $5.00 , scarce A+ cork for.01 a ring, a top of the line rod tube/bag for $3.00, best qualityguides, silk thread, and varnish for pocket change, If J could help melocate those components I would be greatly indebted and would be morethan happy to build him a rod!!!Oh and maybe he could transport us all back to a era where mytime is worth$1.00 or so an hour (and my family could actually live on my $40.00 aweek pay check) that would help too!But I suppose then I could never afford to buy all the toolsnesassary for rod building.Has J been frozen in a block of ice for 50 years orsomething???You can't even buy a good graphite rod(does such a creature exist ?)for$150 and i guarantee there is not 1/20 the amount of work or cost ofmaterials in it. Not to mention the blood, sweat, tears and bit ofsoulthat it would lack!Even if someone didn't charge for their time, a rod like thiswould be double that price! I wish we could live in this fantasy worldthat J has created. Perhaps he is hoping someone will meet hischallengeso he can buy the rod! ;^) Shawn PIneo reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from lblan@provide.net Sun Jun 11 09:51:33 2000 e5BEpWG09024 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Importance: Normal Shawn; I gave a PHY rod order form to Steve Southard at the Fly Factory inGrayling for his "old stuff" display. It dated from the '30s. The rods werehis older name designation rods, the Depression, the Recession, etc. A rodwith reel and line combo could be had for $12.50. This was the deluxe model,of course. Young rods were available as low as $8.50 at the time. This orderform was not dated other than 193__. Interestingly enough, it didn't have aphone number on it. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 11:35 AM Cc: rcurry@ttlc.net; Rodmakers ListservSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell George,I wonder, just how many years ago would you have togo back to getthe kind of quality JC is talking about for $150 ??I mean we aren't talking about South Bend or Heddontype qualityhere. It would have to be a Young, Payne, or the sort. When Ithink back to whenI was young the extent of my bamboo savvy was South Bend, so Ihave nothing togauge prices on a time line.Perhaps someone out there has some old adds orknowledge of this andcould give us a list of Quality rods around $150 and the rough date it wasavailable at that price? It sounds like it would be informativeand a bit offun!Shawn Pineo from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 09:53:01 2000 e5BEr1G09201 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8EB2C700124; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:57:47 -0400 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Shawn,I have an old flier from Sam Carlson from the early seventies in which heoffershis exquisite Quads for $225. Orvis rods in the mid-late sixties were $125.HarmonHenkin in "Fly Tackle" (1976) reports that Jim Payne rods, new, were sold byA&F in1968 for $150 but jumped to a scandelous $250 on his death. For a realchuckle getHenkin's book (above) and look at what he suggests as appropriate prices forusedrods (e.g., a Young might cost $80 or more).--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Shawn Pineo wrote: George,I wonder, just how many years ago would you have to go back togetthe kind of quality JC is talking about for $150 ??I mean we aren't talking about South Bend or Heddon type qualityhere. It would have to be a Young, Payne, or the sort. When I think back towhenI was young the extent of my bamboo savvy was South Bend, so I havenothing togauge prices on a time line.Perhaps someone out there has some old adds or knowledge of thisandcould give us a list of Quality rods around $150 and the rough date it wasavailable at that price? It sounds like it would be informative and a bit offun!Shawn Pineo from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 09:53:27 2000 e5BErRG09286 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:54:48 -0500 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Yes, he obviously doesn't fully comprehend line guide drag ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Date sent: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:48:05 -0400From: reed curry Subject: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--it appears to this novice that he dosent know much about cane rods, all the reference to the "old tapers" not being used? How come we go to great lengths to maintain taper archives? I smell a rat. from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 09:57:46 2000 e5BEvjG09535 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AA095DF40092; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:02:33 -0400 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Larry,It wasn't Karma, for, in the words of the sage (ACME Bumper Stickers,Ltd.),"My Karma ran over my Dogma".I attribute it to J.C.'s good taste. : )Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Larry Blan wrote: This leadsme to believe that JC is pining for a 10' wet fly rod, whose actioncertainly suffers when using modern lines. Karma must be responsible forleading Reed to click on that link. :) If JC shows up at Grayrock, we'll have to ask him about this.... reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 10:06:34 2000 e5BF6XG09721 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AC181CFC007A; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:11:20 -0400 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell - Line guide drag George,I think excessive line guide drag is a condition of the plasticlines, as well. Theoretically, a circle within a circle will onlycontact on one point, so, apart from the potential for more frequentcontact with smaller guides, a hard line will still only contact on onepoint. Silk lines are harder than plastic, have a bumpy surface, andappear to have less stiction. I use small guides on many rods and havesome old rods with 8/64" tiptops that cast a silk line beautifully. Thesmall, low profile guides look better and keep the line closer to therod.... aw, heck, I just prefer them.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ nobler wrote: Yes, he obviously doesn't fully comprehend line guide drag ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jim Flinchbaugh" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 9:40 AMSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Date sent: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:48:05 -0400From: reed curry Subject: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--it appears to this novice that he dosent know much about canerods, all the reference to the "old tapers" not being used? Howcome we go to great lengths to maintain taper archives? I smell arat. from channer1@rmi.net Sun Jun 11 10:08:16 2000 e5BF8FG09866 Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" Shawn Pineo wrote: John,That's what I think too, I was just being a little cheeky. Surelyno one would think you can actually build a quality rod for $150. Perhaps acheap knock off using scraps with no labor charges would come close??The thing that intrigues me the most is..... Just what company ishe talking about in the press release???Shawn Pineo Shawn;The "press release" was imaginary, that's what I was talking aboutwishfull thinking. Read what he says at the bottom of the page, he iscalling on the major rod companies that stil make bamboo to come outwith one line of rods an the old tapers to cast a silk line and toco-incidently make it affordable, by todays standards. This excludes thecustom makers who hand-plane their rods and he knows it, it requiresmass production machinery to do this. T&T, Orvis and Winston still haveand use their machines to make their rods and have all the assemblylines in place to do the rest of it, wrapping guides,etc. they are theonly ones set up to do this and the ones with the capital to possiblycome up with a silk line that doesn't cost $250.00. gma;Read flyanglersonline's archive of casting and rodmaking articles beforeyou think that JC doesn't understand rod mechanics, he know them quitewell. John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 10:13:55 2000 e5BFDsG10146 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:15:16 -0500 Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" Well, he doesn't seem to understand production techniques, with hiscommentabout machine cut rods being more expensive ! Or the modifying of the"master's" tapers either, to accommodate plastic lines. I certainly find noreason to change my PHY's ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" Shawn Pineo wrote: John,That's what I think too, I was just being a little cheeky.Surelyno one would think you can actually build a quality rod for $150.Perhaps acheap knock off using scraps with no labor charges would come close??The thing that intrigues me the most is..... Just what companyishe talking about in the press release???Shawn Pineo Shawn;The "press release" was imaginary, that's what I was talking aboutwishfull thinking. Read what he says at the bottom of the page, he iscalling on the major rod companies that stil make bamboo to come outwith one line of rods an the old tapers to cast a silk line and toco-incidently make it affordable, by todays standards. This excludes thecustom makers who hand-plane their rods and he knows it, it requiresmass production machinery to do this. T&T, Orvis and Winston still haveand use their machines to make their rods and have all the assemblylines in place to do the rest of it, wrapping guides,etc. they are theonly ones set up to do this and the ones with the capital to possiblycome up with a silk line that doesn't cost $250.00. gma;Read flyanglersonline's archive of casting and rodmaking articles beforeyou think that JC doesn't understand rod mechanics, he know them quitewell.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 10:22:06 2000 e5BFM5G10390 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:23:25 -0500 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell - Line guide drag I couldn't agree more Reed. Many don't understand the less friction of therough surface line either. I'd even like to have my first GBF Ashaway nylonline again, as it too had a "bumpy" surface. I only meant that using largerguides was a way to assist when using the larger O.D., and slicker plasticlines. I've been wondering what the weight comparison is between silk and sayDacron, or these new co-polymers ? Perhaps a silk weight/diameter line couldbe made, that could still float ? Cortland has always listened tofishermen's needs well, it makes you wonder if they have looked into thisidea??? Most anything that would reduce wind resistance would be a boon ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell - Line guide drag George,I think excessive line guide drag is a condition of the plasticlines, as well. Theoretically, a circle within a circle will onlycontact on one point, so, apart from the potential for more frequentcontact with smaller guides, a hard line will still only contact on onepoint. Silk lines are harder than plastic, have a bumpy surface, andappear to have less stiction. I use small guides on many rods and havesome old rods with 8/64" tiptops that cast a silk line beautifully. Thesmall, low profile guides look better and keep the line closer to therod.... aw, heck, I just prefer them.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ nobler wrote: Yes, he obviously doesn't fully comprehend line guide drag ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jim Flinchbaugh" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 9:40 AMSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Date sent: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:48:05 -0400From: reed curry Subject: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--it appears to this novice that he dosent know much about canerods, all the reference to the "old tapers" not being used? Howcome we go to great lengths to maintain taper archives? I smell arat. from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Jun 11 10:28:51 2000 e5BFSoG10591 Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps I use a local trophy shop to engrave my butt caps. Mark Cole from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 10:32:14 2000 e5BFWDG10778 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:32:10 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" I don't know, but anyone that anyone that would mass produce a cane rodandadvertise it at a unbelievable price would have to be some kind of BASTARD.he hehe!! I couldn't resist.How is he coming along lately anyway? What was his name?? Georgewasn't itor something??? I forget what the punishment for mentioning his name ishere oron ROFF, I think it was 20 lashings with a graphite tip section or something!Mymy I'm sure cheeky today! ;^)Shawn channer wrote: Shawn Pineo wrote: John,That's what I think too, I was just being a little cheeky. Surelyno one would think you can actually build a quality rod for $150. Perhapsacheap knock off using scraps with no labor charges would come close??The thing that intrigues me the most is..... Just what company ishe talking about in the press release???Shawn Pineo Shawn;The "press release" was imaginary, that's what I was talking aboutwishfull thinking. Read what he says at the bottom of the page, he iscalling on the major rod companies that stil make bamboo to come outwith one line of rods an the old tapers to cast a silk line and toco-incidently make it affordable, by todays standards. This excludes thecustom makers who hand-plane their rods and he knows it, it requiresmass production machinery to do this. T&T, Orvis and Winston still haveand use their machines to make their rods and have all the assemblylines in place to do the rest of it, wrapping guides,etc. they are theonly ones set up to do this and the ones with the capital to possiblycome up with a silk line that doesn't cost $250.00. gma;Read flyanglersonline's archive of casting and rodmaking articles beforeyou think that JC doesn't understand rod mechanics, he know them quitewell.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 10:36:47 2000 e5BFalG10925 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:23:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous to your health, it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned" chemicals arebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio that would amount toa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55 gal. drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However the EPA basessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them ! It's all partof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them, and the "treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-par products ! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be a seriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as one instance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant still using thatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous. DO NOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few other bannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your body won't helpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of any sort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and well ventilated spaceto work in. Lee Freeman----- Original Message -----From: reed curry Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail) Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:56 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Richard,Just back from Seoul and noticed your message. Regrettably, the baseof thebaking soda will not have any effect on the non-organic Bakelite (alkydresins)found in all (that I have looked at) modern varnishes. The tung oil isnot thevillain, check the can of varnish for alkyd resin content; probably 38%orgreater.Your varnish mix may have been too thick. I was never satisfieduntilIwent to this very thin (Formby's) mixture. I believe Darryl had an emailamonth back about a varnish/oil mix he found adequate for silk lines.Larry Blan has a method for removing modern varnish from silk. Seebelow: Subject:Yeeee Haaaaaaa! Was Fly LineDate:Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:14:25 - 0500From:"Larry Blan" "reed curry" 1/2 hour so far, and it is going great. I think it will be pristine whenI'mfinished. Took two fills, one to wash and one to rinse... about 16ouncestotal, and I was generous with the MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone). I have tobelieve that without the ultrasonic, there would be a fair amount ofwipinginvolved. I may still have some cleanup to do, but I really think theultrasonic is removing it from inside the coil just as well as from theouter layers. I find it in just about any hardware store, in the same section whereyoufind denatured alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. I have to believe thatlaquerthinner would work as well, and it is a bit cheaper. MEK has been touted as a carcinogen. Seriously, it is bad stuff... wellventilated area, etc... also very highlyflammable, just like any other solvent that works well! I normally usethisoutside, unless I'm just using a drop or two to clean something. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:42 PM Subject: Re: Fly Line Larry,It sounds like you have a workable approach. Where cansomeone buy MEK? Itsounds serious enough to require clearance from the NSA.Best regards,Reed Larry Blan wrote: Got the line today. Thanks! I took it over to the shop side of the basement and looked aroundforsomething nasty... spied my can of MEK, and thought I'd give it atry.Ireasoned (incorrectly or not) that the silk, being a naturalmaterial wouldnot be damaged by it. A 2-3 second dunk and a wipe with a papertowelremoved 90% of the coating. A second 2-3 second immersion leftit clean downto the braid. I've got a few things to do for the wife, and then I will look atthe6"section I worked on, inspecting for damage to the silk. Myfirst thought forcleaning the entire line is to fill a small container with MEK, fillmyultrasonic cleaner with water, put the container on the shelfand take thewhole mess outside. If the MEK does not damage the silk, thisshould take itout *completely*, with a minimum of time spent on my part. Richard Nantel wrote: As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silk linesrecently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water technique torestorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decided to mixmyownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with the results soordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I've decided toremovethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking soda method.Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I let the linesoak suggestions? Thanks, Richard --Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jun 11 10:42:56 2000 e5BFgtG11124 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps Mark,I've done the same thing with a local jeweler. Taught his kid howto tie flys, and he doesn't charge me anything. It works well. Still,I'd love to have some real engraving done on ferrules and reel seat.I've often thought about making a real custom rod on which that would beappropriate. You know, one to give to my Dad, or something of the like. Jeremy Brynildson has some engravings that are truly works of art.But I haven't been able to get him to do any for me. Does anyone knowwhere I might get some real engraving, fleur de lis or the like, done?I don't mind paying..... (Well, I don't like it, but I will pay) Harry MasjC1@aol.com wrote: I use a local trophy shop to engrave my butt caps. Mark Cole --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 10:46:14 2000 e5BFkDG11263 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:46:10 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell - Line guide drag Also,most popular lines of old were DT , and I think most rods werebuilt accordingly (there are most likely exceptions and I'm no expert).Alot of people today use WF lines which once past the shooting part puts youback to a smaller diameter line, perhaps even smaller than silk in somecases.The other option of course is to use larger/better quality guides.I prefer to use small higher quality ones myself and still manage to castmore than a USEABLE distance of line. All a matter of personal taste. Shawn Pineo reed curry wrote: George,I think excessive line guide drag is a condition of the plasticlines, as well. Theoretically, a circle within a circle will onlycontact on one point, so, apart from the potential for more frequentcontact with smaller guides, a hard line will still only contact on onepoint. Silk lines are harder than plastic, have a bumpy surface, andappear to have less stiction. I use small guides on many rods and havesome old rods with 8/64" tiptops that cast a silk line beautifully. Thesmall, low profile guides look better and keep the line closer to therod.... aw, heck, I just prefer them.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ nobler wrote: Yes, he obviously doesn't fully comprehend line guide drag ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jim Flinchbaugh" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 9:40 AMSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Date sent: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:48:05 -0400From: reed curry Subject: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--it appears to this novice that he dosent know much about canerods, all the reference to the "old tapers" not being used? Howcome we go to great lengths to maintain taper archives? I smell arat. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Jun 11 12:13:43 2000 e5BHDgG12449 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) All, Let's get this straight. We need to have our facts together when we discusschemical safety and environmental regulations. Both Lee and George are notentirely correct in their assessment of MEK safety issues. The best way tofind out about these things is to visit the web sites of OSHA EPA, chemicalmanufacturers and University Chemical Safety Departments. I am providingthe following URLS RE: MEK National Academy of Sciences (OSHA) USA Guidelines FOR USE: http://www.osha- slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/ethylamylketone/recognition.html Canadian OSHA: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for MEK from Manufacturer: http://chem- courses.ucsd.edu/CoursePages/Uglabs/MSDS/methyl.ethyl.ketone.- fisher.html Environmental concerns: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/2butanon.html My interpretation:1. MEK is NOT a known or suspected carcinogen (it may cause birth defects).2. MEK is a serious neurotoxin and can make you very sick at high exposurelevels3. MEK is a SERIOUS fire hazard4. MEK is a potential skin irritant5. MEK is acutely toxic on ingestion6. MEK must be used with proper ventilation (if you use a fan it should beEXPLOSION PROOF).7. You should protect your skin from contact (use appropriate gloves).6. Do not use MEK when a safer solvent might do.7. Find a means for recycling your MEK waste PLEASE NOTE: There are some groups who feel that MEK is carcinogenic and teratogenicandhas caused this sort of harm in the workplace. I can not say whether theyare correct or not. I can only say that they are in the minority. Emergency Overview ( from J.F. Baker Site)-------------------------- DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAY CAUSEFLASHFIRE. HARMFUL OR FATAL IFSWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN.AFFECTSCENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for your convenience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Health Rating: 2 - Moderate Flammability Rating: 4 - Extreme (Flammable) Reactivity Rating: 2 - Moderate Contact Rating: 2 - Moderate Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES;CLASS B EXTINGUISHER Storage Color Code: Red (Flammable) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Potential Health Effects ---------------------------------- Inhalation: Causes irritation to the nose and throat. Concentrations above the TLVmay cause headache, dizziness, nausea, shortness of breath, and vomiting.Higher concentrations may cause central nervous system depression andunconsciousness. Ingestion: May produce abdominal pain, nausea. Aspiration into lungs can producesevere lung damage and is a medical emergency. Other symptoms expectedto parallel inhalation. Skin Contact: Causes irritation to skin. Symptoms include redness, itching, andpain. May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemic effects. Eye Contact: Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes can produce painfulirritation and eye damage. Chronic Exposure: Prolonged skin contact may defat the skin and produce dermatitis.Chronic exposure may cause central nervous system effects. Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions: Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems or impairedrespiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of thesubstance. Regards, -Doug Easton At 10:40 AM 6/11/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous to your health,it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned" chemicals arebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio that would amounttoa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55 gal. drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However the EPA basessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them ! It's all partof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them, and the"treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-par products ! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:36 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be a seriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as oneinstance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant still using thatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous. DO NOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few other bannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your body won'thelpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of any sort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and well ventilated spaceto work in. Lee Freeman from rmoon@ida.net Sun Jun 11 12:47:49 2000 e5BHlmG12925 Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" boundary="------------48F0FD9E3FA5271D86C0B46A" --------------48F0FD9E3FA5271D86C0B46A John,I am glad that at least one person on the rod list can read. It seemsobvious that most cannot. I have never read such a mishmash of halftruths, distortions even outright lies. Jim's purpose was to lamentthat we do not have an equivalent to the older rod and silk line feelwith today's Graphite rods and fluffy lines. He further makes the pointthat the majority of modern rod makers are contributing to this loss bycontinuing to propagate rod tapers a half century old. Old rods andmodern lines do not mix, and just because someone can recreate a PHYtaper does not mean that it will perform like the same rod with a silkline. The challenge that Jim makes is to in some way make a modern canerod silk line combination without charging $2000 for the rod and $250 $150 rod. He is astute enough to know that that is not possible. Whathe is asking in effect is if all of us dumb bamboo rod makers are sosmart why are we using old tapers with modern lines. Why not designrods to use a silk line, create a demand, and give back something thatis missing from fly fishing. Give it up fellows. Read the articlebefore you attack it, then only if you are man enough face up to thechallenger instead of carping behind his back.Better still answer his challenge: "How many rodmakers are making canerods for silk lines????" Ralph --------------48F0FD9E3FA5271D86C0B46A John, mishmash to lament that we do not have an equivalent to the older rod and silk line the point that the majority of modern rod makers are contributing to this rods and modern lines do not mix, and just because someone can recreatea PHY taper does not mean that it will perform like the same rod with a modern cane rod silk line combination without charging $2000 for the rod article of us dumb bamboo rod makers are so smart why are we using old taperswith then only if you are man enough face up to the challenger instead of carpingbehind his back. makingcane rods for silk lines????"Ralph --------------48F0FD9E3FA5271D86C0B46A-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 12:53:03 2000 e5BHr2G13083 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:52:58 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods richard.nantel@videotron.ca,"Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) We all should be as well informed as possible about the hazardouschemicals weuse in our lives and use whatever means we can to protect ourselves, ourfamiliesand the environment around us! Over the years we have failed to do this, sonow weare baby-sat by these agencies and formulas are changing.I work for the military in the aviation industry and we (the military andaviation as a whole) have been the worst offenders. For years the policy wasalways "just get the job done using whatever means". Which meant a totaldisregardof personal safety and environmental awareness. Varsol, MEK, Skydrolhydraulicfluid ( the worst chemical I know of next to straight acid!), Jet fuel ( acocktail of chemicals that even the petroleum industry won't say what all isinside), Asbestos, carbon fiber, paints, copper beryllium parts and tools,aircraft turbine oil ....and the list goes on and on.Not so long ago it was common practice to send young technicians likemyselfinto fuel cells with no respiratory protection soaking in fuel for hours/daysonend. Or send guys into confined engine intakes to clean them with MEK, noresp orskin protection. Or wash the under belly of an aircraft in varsol, once againunprotected.I have seen friends and coworkers develop every thing from dermatitis tochemical intolerance to death from the misuse of these chemicals. I myself am inthe onset of chemical intolerance. A good friend has it to the extent that hebleeds from his pours as you would sweat, his liver is destroyed , has terribledermatitis, and now cancer of the mouth. All because that was the waythings weredone and that was that!Now days we are told that the protection is there and it is our own fault ifwe don't use it or it was inadequate because of fiscal restraints!These chemicals are not to be taken lightly folks!! I am not a tree huggerand by no means am I perfect but I am far more cautious around thesechemicalsnow.I suppose if anyone on here is in the Canadian Military, I will be calledupon tomorrow to answer for this but I really think that we should all beawareand protected around hazards. That is one of the things I enjoy about thislist,is the exchange of knowledge.There, I got all the serious stuff out in the open and now I can return tomyjoking, cheeky self!! Sorry for the bandwidth Shawn Pineo"Douglas P. Easton" wrote: All, Let's get this straight. We need to have our facts together when wediscusschemical safety and environmental regulations. Both Lee and George arenotentirely correct in their assessment of MEK safety issues. The best way tofind out about these things is to visit the web sites of OSHA EPA, chemicalmanufacturers and University Chemical Safety Departments. I amprovidingthe following URLS RE: MEK National Academy of Sciences (OSHA) USA Guidelines FOR USE: http://www.osha- slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/ethylamylketone/recognition.html Canadian OSHA: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for MEK from Manufacturer: http://chem- courses.ucsd.edu/CoursePages/Uglabs/MSDS/methyl.ethyl.ketone.- fisher.html Environmental concerns: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/2butanon.html My interpretation:1. MEK is NOT a known or suspected carcinogen (it may cause birthdefects).2. MEK is a serious neurotoxin and can make you very sick at high exposurelevels3. MEK is a SERIOUS fire hazard4. MEK is a potential skin irritant5. MEK is acutely toxic on ingestion6. MEK must be used with proper ventilation (if you use a fan it should beEXPLOSION PROOF).7. You should protect your skin from contact (use appropriate gloves).6. Do not use MEK when a safer solvent might do.7. Find a means for recycling your MEK waste PLEASE NOTE:There are some groups who feel that MEK is carcinogenic and teratogenicandhas caused this sort of harm in the workplace. I can not say whether theyare correct or not. I can only say that they are in the minority. Emergency Overview ( from J.F. Baker Site)--------------------------DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAYCAUSE FLASHFIRE. HARMFUL OR FATAL IFSWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN.AFFECTSCENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for yourconvenience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------Health Rating: 2 - ModerateFlammability Rating: 4 - Extreme (Flammable)Reactivity Rating: 2 - ModerateContact Rating: 2 - ModerateLab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPERGLOVES;CLASS B EXTINGUISHERStorage Color Code: Red (Flammable) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Potential Health Effects---------------------------------- Inhalation:Causes irritation to the nose and throat. Concentrations above the TLVmay cause headache, dizziness, nausea, shortness of breath, andvomiting.Higher concentrations may cause central nervous system depressionandunconsciousness.Ingestion:May produce abdominal pain, nausea. Aspiration into lungs can producesevere lung damage and is a medical emergency. Other symptomsexpectedto parallel inhalation.Skin Contact:Causes irritation to skin. Symptoms include redness, itching, andpain. May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemic effects.Eye Contact:Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes can produce painfulirritation and eye damage.Chronic Exposure:Prolonged skin contact may defat the skin and produce dermatitis.Chronic exposure may cause central nervous system effects.Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems or impairedrespiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of thesubstance. Regards, -Doug Easton At 10:40 AM 6/11/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous to your health,it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned" chemicalsarebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio that wouldamount toa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55 gal. drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However the EPA basessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them ! It's all partof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them, and the"treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-par products! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:36 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be aseriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as oneinstance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant still using thatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous. DO NOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few other bannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your body won'thelpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of any sort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and well ventilatedspaceto work in. Lee Freeman from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 13:13:56 2000 e5BIDtG13406 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:13:52 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" boundary="------------E0CE4FB5AE20AA6D74E194C5" --------------E0CE4FB5AE20AA6D74E194C5 Ralph,I was probably the person who first responded with a cheekymessage. It was neither an attack on JC nor something that I would bescared to joke about with him in person in the FFOL chat room. Hell Idream of a fantasy world like that too!I didn't for a moment think that anyone in the know couldassume a quality rod could be built for $150. Everything was written asa joke, tongue in cheek type thing. I guess that since Terry hasn't beenon here much lately that every one has become unaccustomed to dry wittyhumor ( or perhaps I have lost my touch?)My apologies for anymisunderstanding! Shawn PineoRalph W Moon wrote: John,I am glad that at least one person on the rod list can read. It seemsobvious that most cannot. I have never read such a mishmash of halftruths, distortions even outright lies. Jim's purpose was to lamentthat we do not have an equivalent to the older rod and silk line feelwith today's Graphite rods and fluffy lines. He further makes thepoint that the majority of modern rod makers are contributing to thisloss by continuing to propagate rod tapers a half century old. Oldrods and modern lines do not mix, and just because someone canrecreate a PHY taper does not mean that it will perform like the samerod with a silk line. The challenge that Jim makes is to in some waymake a modern cane rod silk line combination without charging $2000 challenged any body to make a $150 rod. He is astute enough to knowthat that is not possible. What he is asking in effect is if all ofus dumb bamboo rod makers are so smart why are we using old taperswith modern lines. Why not design rods to use a silk line, create ademand, and give back something that is missing from fly fishing.Give it up fellows. Read the article before you attack it, then onlyif you are man enough face up to the challenger instead of carpingbehind his back.Better still answer his challenge: "How many rodmakers are makingcane rods for silk lines????" Ralph --------------E0CE4FB5AE20AA6D74E194C5 Ralph, probably an attack on JC nor something that I would be scared to joke about withhim in person in the FFOL chat room. Hell I dream of a fantasy world likethat too! momentthink that anyone in the know could assume a quality rod could be built I guess that since Terry hasn't been on here much lately that every onehas become unaccustomed to dry witty humor ( or perhaps I have lost mytouch?) My apologies for any misunderstanding! Shawn PineoRalph W Moon wrote:John, mishmash to lament that we do not have an equivalent to the older rod and silk line the point that the majority of modern rod makers are contributing to this rods and modern lines do not mix, and just because someone can recreatea PHY taper does not mean that it will perform like the same rod with a modern cane rod silk line combination without charging $2000 for the rod article of us dumb bamboo rod makers are so smart why are we using old taperswith then only if you are man enough face up to the challenger instead of carpingbehind his back. makingcane rods for silk lines????"Ralph --------------E0CE4FB5AE20AA6D74E194C5-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 14:22:11 2000 e5BJMAG14358 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:23:24 -0500 "Douglas P. Easton" Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) I don't take any of these various chemicals lightly, nor do I speak withless than over 60 years of using many of them ! The description given here,could just as easily apply to gasoline ! I don't of any massive movement toeliminate this vital fluid. It fact these organizations have managed tocontaminate with this "oxygenated" gas, much worse that the smog it wassupposed to help curtail. It won't be long before we see these foul fuelsrevert back to much cleaner fuels, more like they used to be ! The pure facts are that in order to perpetuate their jobs, these governmentagencies have created false panic, when proper use, and common sensebeliedthe need ! The result of these agency's actions, funded by our tax dollars, haveeliminated some products entirely, and greatly affected the quality of manyothers ! I stand by my statements, and claims in the first posting, as I have usedthousands of gallons of many flammable liquids, with not one even closecall, in all these years ! The user simply must use discretion in how theyare used ! Here in Texas, they locked up all spray paint, so teenagerscouldn't sniff it. They also banned the sale of model airplane cement forthe same reason. All the while, they could buy a gallon of many thinners,that could do a many times more damage ! What I'm speaking of here, is accepting responsibility for your own actions,and the return to using good old "horse sense" ! This is a vote for lessgovernment in our lives, and to stop trying to get something for nothing ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) All, Let's get this straight. We need to have our facts together when wediscusschemical safety and environmental regulations. Both Lee and George arenotentirely correct in their assessment of MEK safety issues. The best way tofind out about these things is to visit the web sites of OSHA EPA,chemicalmanufacturers and University Chemical Safety Departments. I amprovidingthe following URLS RE: MEK National Academy of Sciences (OSHA) USA Guidelines FOR USE: http://www.osha- slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/ethylamylketone/recognition.html Canadian OSHA: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for MEK from Manufacturer: http://chem- courses.ucsd.edu/CoursePages/Uglabs/MSDS/methyl.ethyl.ketone.- fisher.html Environmental concerns: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/2butanon.html My interpretation:1. MEK is NOT a known or suspected carcinogen (it may cause birthdefects).2. MEK is a serious neurotoxin and can make you very sick at high exposurelevels3. MEK is a SERIOUS fire hazard4. MEK is a potential skin irritant5. MEK is acutely toxic on ingestion6. MEK must be used with proper ventilation (if you use a fan it should beEXPLOSION PROOF).7. You should protect your skin from contact (use appropriate gloves).6. Do not use MEK when a safer solvent might do.7. Find a means for recycling your MEK waste PLEASE NOTE:There are some groups who feel that MEK is carcinogenic and teratogenicandhas caused this sort of harm in the workplace. I can not say whether theyare correct or not. I can only say that they are in the minority. Emergency Overview ( from J.F. Baker Site)--------------------------DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAYCAUSE FLASHFIRE. HARMFUL OR FATAL IFSWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN.AFFECTSCENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for yourconvenience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------Health Rating: 2 - ModerateFlammability Rating: 4 - Extreme (Flammable)Reactivity Rating: 2 - ModerateContact Rating: 2 - ModerateLab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPERGLOVES;CLASS B EXTINGUISHERStorage Color Code: Red (Flammable) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Potential Health Effects---------------------------------- Inhalation:Causes irritation to the nose and throat. Concentrations above theTLVmay cause headache, dizziness, nausea, shortness of breath, and vomiting.Higher concentrations may cause central nervous system depressionandunconsciousness.Ingestion:May produce abdominal pain, nausea. Aspiration into lungs can producesevere lung damage and is a medical emergency. Other symptoms expectedto parallel inhalation.Skin Contact:Causes irritation to skin. Symptoms include redness, itching, andpain. May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemic effects.Eye Contact:Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes can produce painfulirritation and eye damage.Chronic Exposure:Prolonged skin contact may defat the skin and produce dermatitis.Chronic exposure may cause central nervous system effects.Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems or impairedrespiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of thesubstance. Regards, -Doug Easton At 10:40 AM 6/11/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous to your health,it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned" chemicalsarebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio that wouldamounttoa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55 gal.drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However the EPAbasessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them ! It's allpartof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them, and the"treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-par products! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:36 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be aseriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as oneinstance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant still usingthatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous. DO NOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few otherbannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your body won'thelpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of any sort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and well ventilatedspaceto work in. Lee Freeman from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jun 11 14:28:10 2000 e5BJS9G14522 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4 Importance: Normal Gents, Thanks for suggestions on how to remove modern varnish from my silk lines.This conversation regarding chemical safety has been an eye opener. I know nothing of chemical toxicity. Assuming that denatured alcohol,mineral spirits, MEK, and laquer thinner all do the job, which would be thesafest? Thanks in advanced, Richard would-rather-fish-plastic-lines-than-get-poisoned Nantel -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:56 AM Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail)Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Richard,Just back from Seoul and noticed your message.Regrettably, the base of thebaking soda will not have any effect on the non-organicBakelite (alkyd resins)found in all (that I have looked at) modern varnishes. Thetung oil is not thevillain, check the can of varnish for alkyd resin content;probably 38% orgreater.Your varnish mix may have been too thick. I was neversatisfied until Iwent to this very thin (Formby's) mixture. I believe Darrylhad an email amonth back about a varnish/oil mix he found adequate for silk lines.Larry Blan has a method for removing modern varnish fromsilk. See below: Subject:Yeeee Haaaaaaa! Was Fly LineDate:Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:14:25 - 0500From:"Larry Blan" "reed curry" 1/2 hour so far, and it is going great. I think it will bepristine when I'mfinished. Took two fills, one to wash and one to rinse...about 16 ouncestotal, and I was generous with the MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone).I have tobelieve that without the ultrasonic, there would be a fairamount of wipinginvolved. I may still have some cleanup to do, but I really think theultrasonic is removing it from inside the coil just as wellas from theouter layers. I find it in just about any hardware store, in the samesection where youfind denatured alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. I have tobelieve that laquerthinner would work as well, and it is a bit cheaper. MEK has been touted as a carcinogen. Seriously, it is badstuff... wellventilated area, etc... also very highlyflammable, just like any other solvent that works well! Inormally use thisoutside, unless I'm just using a drop or two to clean something. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:42 PM Subject: Re: Fly Line Larry,It sounds like you have a workable approach. Where cansomeone buy MEK? Itsounds serious enough to require clearance from the NSA.Best regards,Reed Larry Blan wrote: Got the line today. Thanks! I took it over to the shop side of the basement andlooked around forsomething nasty... spied my can of MEK, and thought I'dgive it a try. Ireasoned (incorrectly or not) that the silk, being a naturalmaterial wouldnot be damaged by it. A 2-3 second dunk and a wipe with apaper towelremoved 90% of the coating. A second 2-3 second immersion leftit clean downto the braid. I've got a few things to do for the wife, and then I willlook at the 6"section I worked on, inspecting for damage to the silk. Myfirst thought forcleaning the entire line is to fill a small containerwith MEK, fill myultrasonic cleaner with water, put the container on the shelfand take thewhole mess outside. If the MEK does not damage the silk, thisshould take itout *completely*, with a minimum of time spent on my part. Richard Nantel wrote: As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silklines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and watertechnique to restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, Idecided to mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with theresults so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I'vedecided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking sodamethod. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I letthe line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard --Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from timklein@uswest.net Sun Jun 11 14:53:53 2000 e5BJrqG14991 (63.225.127.146) Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" I'm surprised it took so long for George's name to come up. That was thefirst thing that popped into my head! Maybe this is just an elaborate ploy by JC to try to get George working on asilk line?---Tim "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could bejust as proud for half the money"- Arthur Godfrey----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" I don't know, but anyone that anyone that would mass produce a canerod andadvertise it at a unbelievable price would have to be some kind ofBASTARD. he hehe!! I couldn't resist.How is he coming along lately anyway? What was his name?? Georgewasn't itor something??? I forget what the punishment for mentioning his name ishere oron ROFF, I think it was 20 lashings with a graphite tip section orsomething! Mymy I'm sure cheeky today! ;^)Shawn channer wrote: Shawn Pineo wrote: John,That's what I think too, I was just being a little cheeky.Surelyno one would think you can actually build a quality rod for $150.Perhaps acheap knock off using scraps with no labor charges would come close??The thing that intrigues me the most is..... Just whatcompany ishe talking about in the press release???Shawn Pineo Shawn;The "press release" was imaginary, that's what I was talking aboutwishfull thinking. Read what he says at the bottom of the page, he iscalling on the major rod companies that stil make bamboo to come outwith one line of rods an the old tapers to cast a silk line and toco-incidently make it affordable, by todays standards. This excludes thecustom makers who hand-plane their rods and he knows it, it requiresmass production machinery to do this. T&T, Orvis and Winston still haveand use their machines to make their rods and have all the assemblylines in place to do the rest of it, wrapping guides,etc. they are theonly ones set up to do this and the ones with the capital to possiblycome up with a silk line that doesn't cost $250.00. gma;Read flyanglersonline's archive of casting and rodmaking articles beforeyou think that JC doesn't understand rod mechanics, he know them quitewell.John from rmoon@ida.net Sun Jun 11 15:30:23 2000 e5BKUMG15598 Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" Shawn I came on a little strong. Sorry. I got to thinking that one of themain points I raised was that most of us do not build rods to accomodatesilk lines, and I guess that actually we do. Wouldn't it be great ifwe didn't have to communicate through the internet?Ralph