from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jun 11 15:32:47 2000 e5BKWlG15744 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: silk lines and $150 rods Wondering here what happened to all the old line making gear. Where did the Cortland and US Line Co stuff go? out there. That is not an accurate price at all. I am working out a few refinements on components and tapers to use best with the silk lines I have on the way. The smaller size Snake Brand guides are a starting point.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from mikeg@micronet.net Sun Jun 11 16:02:06 2000 e5BL25G16192 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2.2); Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:02:11 -0800User- Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Multi-Tip Rod I am considering buying a 7' 3-piece 2-tip 3 weight rod. I want an allpurpose rod that will make short casts as well as normal.I would prefer not to use a 4-weight line for short casts. Some onerecommended using a heavier tip (tip #2) for short casts so the rod wouldload with a short line. I have heard of 2 tip rods with a dry fly/ wet flytip, but never a normal/short distance casting tip. Can anyone let me knowif this is a good idea. from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 16:07:34 2000 e5BL7XG16368 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A0B72CAA00AC; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:12:23 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods Bob,Cortland has 16 silk line machines sitting idle, including one on loan tothe Catskill FF Museum.As for the $250 silk line price, he probably took that from the article Iwrote on silk lines. That figure comes from the 1998 price listed byBelvoirdale.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ bob maulucci wrote: Wondering here what happened to all the old line making gear. Where didtheCortland and US Line Co stuff go? out there. That is not an accurate price at all. I am working out a fewrefinements on components and tapers to use best with the silk lines Ihaveon the way. The smaller size Snake Brand guides are a starting point.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 11 16:16:16 2000 e5BLGGG16566 Subject: Chris bogart's website Anyone have the address for Chris Bogart's Website? from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 16:22:12 2000 e5BLMCG16743 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A4232CD700AC; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:26:59 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell - Line guide drag Shawn,While it is true that double tapers were more popular during the silk era,there were plenty of WF tapers, including some extremely complex tapersdesigned for specific load distances with specific rod actions. Come toGrayrock and try out some very impressive lines.I don't think you can find a PVC line which tapers down to .020" ("I"). Thestandard tip diamater for PVC seems to be .037" or thereabouts. Even then,thethin PVC sinks.BTW - for a $250-$330 silk line tryhttp://www.belvoirdale.com/silklines.html. This is $60-$140 more than someother dealers.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Shawn Pineo wrote: Also,most popular lines of old were DT , and I think most rods werebuilt accordingly (there are most likely exceptions and I'm no expert).Alot of people today use WF lines which once past the shooting part puts youback to a smaller diameter line, perhaps even smaller than silk in somecases.The other option of course is to use larger/better quality guides.I prefer to use small higher quality ones myself and still manage to castmore than a USEABLE distance of line. All a matter of personal taste. Shawn Pineo from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 16:30:59 2000 e5BLUwG17017 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A635B21800DA; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:35:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Chris bogart's website Bill,Chris has two websites. Try http://www.shentel.net/canerod/ and alsohttp://www.canerod.com/.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bill Walters wrote: Anyone have the address for Chris Bogart's Website? from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 16:37:00 2000 e5BLaxG17255 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A79EFC4600E6; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:41:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Richard,While I don't think Darrel's suggestions will cut modern varnishes (I'vetried all three) we omitted one unhealthy compound that is sold freely forapplication on the skin... 100% DEET. This will take the varnish off a rod, itshould probably work on the lines, and keep them mosquito free, too.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Richard Nantel wrote: Gents, Thanks for suggestions on how to remove modern varnish from my silklines.This conversation regarding chemical safety has been an eye opener. I know nothing of chemical toxicity. Assuming that denatured alcohol,mineral spirits, MEK, and laquer thinner all do the job, which would be thesafest? Thanks in advanced, Richard would-rather-fish-plastic-lines-than-get-poisoned Nantel from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 16:50:06 2000 e5BLo5G17555 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 16:51:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hmmm, I wonder if the Citristrip will remove it ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Richard,While I don't think Darrel's suggestions will cut modern varnishes(I'vetried all three) we omitted one unhealthy compound that is sold freely forapplication on the skin... 100% DEET. This will take the varnish off arod, itshould probably work on the lines, and keep them mosquito free, too.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Richard Nantel wrote: Gents, Thanks for suggestions on how to remove modern varnish from my silklines.This conversation regarding chemical safety has been an eye opener. I know nothing of chemical toxicity. Assuming that denatured alcohol,mineral spirits, MEK, and laquer thinner all do the job, which would bethesafest? Thanks in advanced, Richard would-rather-fish-plastic-lines-than-get-poisoned Nantel from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jun 11 16:57:59 2000 e5BLvwG17779 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods Hi Reed:What are these machines like? Are they gigantic?Thanks,Bob At 05:05 PM 6/11/00 -0400, you wrote:Bob,Cortland has 16 silk line machines sitting idle, including one on loan tothe Catskill FF Museum. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jun 11 16:58:19 2000 e5BLwIG17847 Subject: Re: Engraved buttcaps Alec,When I want a butt cap engraved, I take it to the mall.They have a shop in there, that does engraving with a computerengraver. They do brass plaques, trophies, etc. I would thinkmost large malls would have a shop that does engraving. It's notthat expensive to get done, either. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 17:00:02 2000 e5BM01G18020 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ACFDB9F200F0; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:04:45 -0400 richard.nantel@videotron.ca,"Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) All,Since we are on this topic... I am not ready to give any credibility togovernmentassessments of chemicals as health hazards. Governments do not serve theinterests ofthe people, nor have they ever; they serve those who empower them. village inNova Scotia. One night we were awakened by firemen knocking on the door. Awarehouse,near the center of town, that was used by the local grain and feed company of pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, etc. was on fire, and toxic smoke andfumes(they used plenty of water on the fire, creating a toxic stew that killed everyfishin the river, etc.) were drifting the 200 yards toward our house. The entiretown wasevacuated. Dow and Dupont had lawyers flown in within hours. Every lawyer inthewestern end of the province was put on retainer by the chemical companies.The newsmedia did a virtual blackout of coverage, so as not to impact tourism oragriculture.After three days the feds ordered the emergency ended and "allowed" usback into ourhomes with a one page warning not to let children play outside without fullcoverageof head, arms, legs (it was summer), to wash all walls, floors, ceilings, etc..Thedioxins found in the milk of cows five miles away was not a problem, the dairywouldmix that milk with safe milk, etc.So, four days later, children were playing on the pile of sand used to divertthetoxic flow toward the river, while thirty feet away Dow techs were vaccing upsoilwhile wearing bio-hazard suits and bottled air.I could narrate other personal instances of the validity of governmentwarningsbut one of my hands is glowing and making the screen hard to read. : )Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 17:38:44 2000 e5BMchG18651 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:38:31 -0500 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods This makes you wonder what it would take to get them to crank up, and makesome more silk, or other similar material lines ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods Bob,Cortland has 16 silk line machines sitting idle, including one on loantothe Catskill FF Museum.As for the $250 silk line price, he probably took that from thearticle Iwrote on silk lines. That figure comes from the 1998 price listed byBelvoirdale.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ bob maulucci wrote: Wondering here what happened to all the old line making gear. Where didtheCortland and US Line Co stuff go? areout there. That is not an accurate price at all. I am working out a fewrefinements on components and tapers to use best with the silk lines Ihaveon the way. The smaller size Snake Brand guides are a starting point.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sun Jun 11 17:40:39 2000 e5BMecG18758 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with SMTP ;Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:40:33 +0000 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell I thought the great George whats-his-name was already making rods forunder$200. All we need now are the $50 silk lines. Jack -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Reed,Thank you for pointing out J. Castewells challenge. I feel soguilty, ripping off my customers, what was I thinking!I am going to set to work right away to answer his challengeand build that $150 bamboo fly rod........that is as soon as I canlocate a culm of premium bamboo for $4.00 , a quality reel seat for$2.50 , NS ferrules for $5.00 , scarce A+ cork for.01 a ring, a top of the line rod tube/bag for $3.00, best qualityguides, silk thread, and varnish for pocket change, If J could help melocate those components I would be greatly indebted and would be morethan happy to build him a rod!!!Oh and maybe he could transport us all back to a era where mytime is worth$1.00 or so an hour (and my family could actually live on my $40.00 aweek pay check) that would help too!But I suppose then I could never afford to buy all the toolsnesassary for rod building.Has J been frozen in a block of ice for 50 years or something???You can't even buy a good graphite rod(does such a creature exist ?) for$150 and i guarantee there is not 1/20 the amount of work or cost ofmaterials in it. Not to mention the blood, sweat, tears and bit of soulthat it would lack!Even if someone didn't charge for their time, a rod like thiswould be double that price! I wish we could live in this fantasy worldthat J has created. Perhaps he is hoping someone will meet his challengeso he can buy the rod! ;^) Shawn PIneo reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 17:54:52 2000 e5BMsqG19013 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 19:54:47 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Multi-Tip Rod Mike,that is the good part of our craft, almost anything is possible! Ihave even seen 3 pc rods with 2 mids and 2-4 tips giving a range of about 4oreven 5 different wts. This is essentially the same as in close and out far.Also you can make a rod better in close or out far by varying the linewt or taper (WF/DT....ect.)P.S. I believe it is the other way around...for short casts andmaking the rod load faster you would want the smaller tip. Someone pleasecorrect me if I am wrong?Hope this helps! Shawn Pineo Mike George wrote: I am considering buying a 7' 3-piece 2-tip 3 weight rod. I want an allpurpose rod that will make short casts as well as normal.I would prefer not to use a 4-weight line for short casts. Some onerecommended using a heavier tip (tip #2) for short casts so the rod wouldload with a short line. I have heard of 2 tip rods with a dry fly/ wet flytip, but never a normal/short distance casting tip. Can anyone let me knowif this is a good idea. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 18:05:04 2000 e5BN53G19244 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:04:58 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" Ralph,hey great idea! Why don't you guys all come up here to NovaScotia to visit?? Maybe a rod gathering.......mmmmmmmm! OK now, wewouldn'twant to scare off all the graphite gang here. All those guys running aroundwith them there funny lookin wooden sticks! ;^)Leave the big clubs home boys, the short, light rod rules here American Shad!That might not be a bad idea! I wonder if I was to organizesomething like that, how many out there would come?? Food for thought! Shawn Pineo Ralph W Moon wrote: Shawn I came on a little strong. Sorry. I got to thinking that one of themain points I raised was that most of us do not build rods to accomodatesilk lines, and I guess that actually we do. Wouldn't it be great ifwe didn't have to communicate through the internet?Ralph from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 18:11:24 2000 e5BNBNG19463 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:11:18 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Actually I was visiting Georges site today and I think he has raised his price,I think that the cheapest he has is around $500 which is still an unbelievableprice especially considering the overhead he must have!Shawn Pineo Jacques Follweiler wrote: I thought the great George whats-his-name was already making rods forunder$200. All we need now are the $50 silk lines. Jack -----Original Message-----From: Shawn Pineo Cc: Rodmakers Listserv Date: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:59 AMSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Reed,Thank you for pointing out J. Castewells challenge. I feel soguilty, ripping off my customers, what was I thinking!I am going to set to work right away to answer his challengeand build that $150 bamboo fly rod........that is as soon as I canlocate a culm of premium bamboo for $4.00 , a quality reel seat for$2.50 , NS ferrules for $5.00 , scarce A+ cork for.01 a ring, a top of the line rod tube/bag for $3.00, best qualityguides, silk thread, and varnish for pocket change, If J could help melocate those components I would be greatly indebted and would be morethan happy to build him a rod!!!Oh and maybe he could transport us all back to a era where mytime is worth$1.00 or so an hour (and my family could actually live on my $40.00 aweek pay check) that would help too!But I suppose then I could never afford to buy all the toolsnesassary for rod building.Has J been frozen in a block of ice for 50 years or something???You can't even buy a good graphite rod(does such a creature exist ?) for$150 and i guarantee there is not 1/20 the amount of work or cost ofmaterials in it. Not to mention the blood, sweat, tears and bit of soulthat it would lack!Even if someone didn't charge for their time, a rod like thiswould be double that price! I wish we could live in this fantasy worldthat J has created. Perhaps he is hoping someone will meet his challengeso he can buy the rod! ;^) Shawn PIneo reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 18:21:26 2000 e5BNLPG19692 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:21:19 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods "Douglas P. Easton" ,"Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Ironically George it is these same Govt.' agencies who usually make theworst of the messes and allow them to happen.As far as the model glue, in all my years of model building I never noticedany side effects...side effects...side effects....side effects....what was Isaying??? Where am I?;^) ;^) ;^)Shawn Pineonobler wrote: I don't take any of these various chemicals lightly, nor do I speak withless than over 60 years of using many of them ! The description givenhere,could just as easily apply to gasoline ! I don't of any massive movement toeliminate this vital fluid. It fact these organizations have managed tocontaminate with this "oxygenated" gas, much worse that the smog it wassupposed to help curtail. It won't be long before we see these foul fuelsrevert back to much cleaner fuels, more like they used to be ! The pure facts are that in order to perpetuate their jobs, thesegovernmentagencies have created false panic, when proper use, and common sensebeliedthe need ! The result of these agency's actions, funded by our tax dollars, haveeliminated some products entirely, and greatly affected the quality ofmanyothers ! I stand by my statements, and claims in the first posting, as I have usedthousands of gallons of many flammable liquids, with not one even closecall, in all these years ! The user simply must use discretion in how theyare used ! Here in Texas, they locked up all spray paint, so teenagerscouldn't sniff it. They also banned the sale of model airplane cement forthe same reason. All the while, they could buy a gallon of many thinners,that could do a many times more damage ! What I'm speaking of here, is accepting responsibility for your own actions,and the return to using good old "horse sense" ! This is a vote for lessgovernment in our lives, and to stop trying to get something for nothing ! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas P. Easton" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:13 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) All, Let's get this straight. We need to have our facts together when wediscusschemical safety and environmental regulations. Both Lee and George arenotentirely correct in their assessment of MEK safety issues. The best waytofind out about these things is to visit the web sites of OSHA EPA,chemicalmanufacturers and University Chemical Safety Departments. I amprovidingthe following URLS RE: MEK National Academy of Sciences (OSHA) USA Guidelines FOR USE: http://www.osha- slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/ethylamylketone/recognition.html Canadian OSHA: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for MEK from Manufacturer: http://chem- courses.ucsd.edu/CoursePages/Uglabs/MSDS/methyl.ethyl.ketone.- fisher.html Environmental concerns: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/2butanon.html My interpretation:1. MEK is NOT a known or suspected carcinogen (it may cause birthdefects).2. MEK is a serious neurotoxin and can make you very sick at highexposurelevels3. MEK is a SERIOUS fire hazard4. MEK is a potential skin irritant5. MEK is acutely toxic on ingestion6. MEK must be used with proper ventilation (if you use a fan it should beEXPLOSION PROOF).7. You should protect your skin from contact (use appropriate gloves).6. Do not use MEK when a safer solvent might do.7. Find a means for recycling your MEK waste PLEASE NOTE:There are some groups who feel that MEK is carcinogenic and teratogenicandhas caused this sort of harm in the workplace. I can not say whethertheyare correct or not. I can only say that they are in the minority. Emergency Overview ( from J.F. Baker Site)--------------------------DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAYCAUSE FLASHFIRE. HARMFUL OR FATAL IFSWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN.AFFECTSCENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for yourconvenience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------Health Rating: 2 - ModerateFlammability Rating: 4 - Extreme (Flammable)Reactivity Rating: 2 - ModerateContact Rating: 2 - ModerateLab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPERGLOVES;CLASS B EXTINGUISHERStorage Color Code: Red (Flammable) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Potential Health Effects---------------------------------- Inhalation:Causes irritation to the nose and throat. Concentrations above theTLVmay cause headache, dizziness, nausea, shortness of breath, andvomiting.Higher concentrations may cause central nervous system depressionandunconsciousness.Ingestion:May produce abdominal pain, nausea. Aspiration into lungs canproducesevere lung damage and is a medical emergency. Other symptomsexpectedto parallel inhalation.Skin Contact:Causes irritation to skin. Symptoms include redness, itching, andpain. May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemic effects.Eye Contact:Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes can produce painfulirritation and eye damage.Chronic Exposure:Prolonged skin contact may defat the skin and produce dermatitis.Chronic exposure may cause central nervous system effects.Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems or impairedrespiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of thesubstance. Regards, -Doug Easton At 10:40 AM 6/11/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous to yourhealth,it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned" chemicalsarebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio that wouldamounttoa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55 gal.drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However the EPAbasessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them ! It's allpartof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them, and the"treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-parproducts! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:36 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be aseriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as oneinstance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant still usingthatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous. DO NOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few otherbannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your body won'thelpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of any sort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and well ventilatedspaceto work in. Lee Freeman from yves@hwy97.net Sun Jun 11 19:15:49 2000 e5C0FmG20343 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.2.0) with SMTP id ;Sun, 11 Jun 2000 17:15:47 -0700 Subject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Well Shawn, I'm looking at a Hardy catalog for 1958-59. It lists the C.C.De France 9' 2-piece, 1 top, rod at L10/19 - i.e., about $55 (purchase taxa couple of pounds extra). At that time, I was living in Quebec (on$300/mo) and felt that this was an unwarranted extravagance. I ended uppurchasing a Milwards Flymaster (9', 2-piece, 2 tops) for L14 (refMilwards 1960 catalog, perhaps $70). So, you don't have to go back to1960. Anyway, Im not sure that I made the right decision. Dave At 11:35 AM 6/11/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:George,I wonder, just how many years ago would you have to go back togetthe kind of quality JC is talking about for $150 ??I mean we aren't talking about South Bend or Heddon type qualityhere. It would have to be a Young, Payne, or the sort. When I think backto whenI was young the extent of my bamboo savvy was South Bend, so I havenothing togauge prices on a time line.Perhaps someone out there has some old adds or knowledge ofthis andcould give us a list of Quality rods around $150 and the rough date it wasavailable at that price? It sounds like it would be informative and a bit offun!Shawn Pineo nobler wrote: Shawn the era you are speaking of meant $40/month, was good pay !When Iwasa kid, you could go see Tom Mix, and get a Baby Ruth, for 6 cents, andtherewas a Green Hornet serial too ! Everything is relative ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: "Rodmakers Listserv" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:54 AMSubject: Re: A Challenge issued by J. Castwell Reed,Thank you for pointing out J. Castewells challenge. I feel soguilty, ripping off my customers, what was I thinking!I am going to set to work right away to answer his challengeand build that $150 bamboo fly rod........that is as soon as I canlocate a culm of premium bamboo for $4.00 , a quality reel seat for$2.50 , NS ferrules for $5.00 , scarce A+ cork for.01 a ring, a top of the line rod tube/bag for $3.00, best qualityguides, silk thread, and varnish for pocket change, If J could help melocate those components I would be greatly indebted and would be morethan happy to build him a rod!!!Oh and maybe he could transport us all back to a era where mytime is worth$1.00 or so an hour (and my family could actually live on my $40.00 aweek pay check) that would help too!But I suppose then I could never afford to buy all the toolsnesassary for rod building.Has J been frozen in a block of ice for 50 years or something???You can't even buy a good graphite rod(does such a creature exist ?)for$150 and i guarantee there is not 1/20 the amount of work or cost ofmaterials in it. Not to mention the blood, sweat, tears and bit of soulthat it would lack!Even if someone didn't charge for their time, a rod like thiswould be double that price! I wish we could live in this fantasy worldthat J has created. Perhaps he is hoping someone will meet hischallengeso he can buy the rod! ;^) Shawn PIneo reed curry wrote: All,I just noticed an interesting article.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/bamboo/--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 19:29:41 2000 e5C0TeG20586 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 19:30:43 -0500 "Douglas P. Easton" ,"Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Yes, I've been using model cement, and dopes, and epoxies of all kinds,since 1937. I've sprayed dopes in a closed garage, and blown the over-sprayout of my nose for a week. Never so much as a sore throat ! When you dostupid things, like sticking your head in a plastic bag, so all oxygen isdeprived, that's a totally different matter. Now, here in Texas, we can no longer buy acrylic lacquer for auto painting !I'd really like to know what basis they used for messing with our old sparvarnishes ! My can of Valspar, purchased recently, sets dust free in about 2hours ! That's a far cry from the original, that took far longer. GMA----- Original Message ----- "Douglas P. Easton" ; "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Ironically George it is these same Govt.' agencies who usually maketheworst of the messes and allow them to happen.As far as the model glue, in all my years of model building I nevernoticedany side effects...side effects...side effects....side effects....what wasIsaying??? Where am I?;^) ;^) ;^)Shawn Pineonobler wrote: I don't take any of these various chemicals lightly, nor do I speak withless than over 60 years of using many of them ! The description givenhere,could just as easily apply to gasoline ! I don't of any massive movementtoeliminate this vital fluid. It fact these organizations have managed tocontaminate with this "oxygenated" gas, much worse that the smog itwassupposed to help curtail. It won't be long before we see these foulfuelsrevert back to much cleaner fuels, more like they used to be ! The pure facts are that in order to perpetuate their jobs, thesegovernmentagencies have created false panic, when proper use, and common sensebeliedthe need ! The result of these agency's actions, funded by our tax dollars, haveeliminated some products entirely, and greatly affected the quality ofmanyothers ! I stand by my statements, and claims in the first posting, as I haveusedthousands of gallons of many flammable liquids, with not one even closecall, in all these years ! The user simply must use discretion in howtheyare used ! Here in Texas, they locked up all spray paint, so teenagerscouldn't sniff it. They also banned the sale of model airplane cementforthe same reason. All the while, they could buy a gallon of manythinners,that could do a many times more damage ! What I'm speaking of here, is accepting responsibility for your ownactions,and the return to using good old "horse sense" ! This is a vote for lessgovernment in our lives, and to stop trying to get something for nothing! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas P. Easton" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:13 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) All, Let's get this straight. We need to have our facts together when wediscusschemical safety and environmental regulations. Both Lee and Georgearenotentirely correct in their assessment of MEK safety issues. The bestway tofind out about these things is to visit the web sites of OSHA EPA,chemicalmanufacturers and University Chemical Safety Departments. I amprovidingthe following URLS RE: MEK National Academy of Sciences (OSHA) USA Guidelines FOR USE: http://www.osha- slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/ethylamylketone/recognition.html Canadian OSHA: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for MEK from Manufacturer: http://chem- courses.ucsd.edu/CoursePages/Uglabs/MSDS/methyl.ethyl.ketone.- fisher.html Environmental concerns: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/2butanon.html My interpretation:1. MEK is NOT a known or suspected carcinogen (it may cause birthdefects).2. MEK is a serious neurotoxin and can make you very sick at highexposurelevels3. MEK is a SERIOUS fire hazard4. MEK is a potential skin irritant5. MEK is acutely toxic on ingestion6. MEK must be used with proper ventilation (if you use a fan itshould beEXPLOSION PROOF).7. You should protect your skin from contact (use appropriate gloves).6. Do not use MEK when a safer solvent might do.7. Find a means for recycling your MEK waste PLEASE NOTE:There are some groups who feel that MEK is carcinogenic andteratogenicandhas caused this sort of harm in the workplace. I can not say whethertheyare correct or not. I can only say that they are in the minority. Emergency Overview ( from J.F. Baker Site)--------------------------DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAYCAUSEFLASHFIRE. HARMFUL OR FATAL IFSWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN.AFFECTSCENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for yourconvenience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------Health Rating: 2 - ModerateFlammability Rating: 4 - Extreme (Flammable)Reactivity Rating: 2 - ModerateContact Rating: 2 - ModerateLab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPERGLOVES;CLASS B EXTINGUISHERStorage Color Code: Red (Flammable) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Potential Health Effects---------------------------------- Inhalation:Causes irritation to the nose and throat. Concentrations abovetheTLVmay cause headache, dizziness, nausea, shortness of breath, andvomiting.Higher concentrations may cause central nervous systemdepressionandunconsciousness.Ingestion:May produce abdominal pain, nausea. Aspiration into lungs canproducesevere lung damage and is a medical emergency. Other symptomsexpectedto parallel inhalation.Skin Contact:Causes irritation to skin. Symptoms include redness, itching, andpain. May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemic effects.Eye Contact:Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes can produce painfulirritation and eye damage.Chronic Exposure:Prolonged skin contact may defat the skin and produce dermatitis.Chronic exposure may cause central nervous system effects.Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems orimpairedrespiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of thesubstance. Regards, -Doug Easton At 10:40 AM 6/11/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous to yourhealth,it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned"chemicalsarebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio that wouldamounttoa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55 gal.drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However the EPAbasessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them ! It'sallpartof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them, andthe"treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-parproducts! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:36 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be aseriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as oneinstance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant stillusingthatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous. DONOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few otherbannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your bodywon'thelpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of anysort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and wellventilatedspaceto work in. Lee Freeman from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 11 20:24:22 2000 e5C1OLG21163 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ACE6BBD700F0; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:29:10 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods Bob,They look like ropemaking machines and are not larger then you couldcarry inyour pickup. They support 16 threads.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ bob maulucci wrote: Hi Reed:What are these machines like? Are they gigantic?Thanks,Bob At 05:05 PM 6/11/00 -0400, you wrote:Bob,Cortland has 16 silk line machines sitting idle, including one on loan tothe Catskill FF Museum. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jun 11 20:46:26 2000 e5C1kPG21507 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:32:42 -0500 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods I gotta' ask Reed, have you asked them about making silk lines again ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods Bob,They look like ropemaking machines and are not larger then you couldcarry inyour pickup. They support 16 threads.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ bob maulucci wrote: Hi Reed:What are these machines like? Are they gigantic?Thanks,Bob At 05:05 PM 6/11/00 -0400, you wrote:Bob,Cortland has 16 silk line machines sitting idle, including one onloan tothe Catskill FF Museum. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bh887@lafn.org Sun Jun 11 21:22:12 2000 e5C2MBG22010 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) "Douglas P. Easton" ,"Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Guys, Well, I guess we sort of touched one off, huh? Seems many of us havecommonbackgrounds. I too build and fly model aircraft, have used dope, all mannerof glues and cements, and epoxies for most of my life and I too starteddoing this in 1937. Okay, now all that was not said to impress. It was saidto qualify. The list of ill effects put on the list by Doug (I believe itwas he) was frightening, to say the least. Yeah, I agree that Governmentknows less than half of what it speaks to, and the tests the labs conductedare totally suspect, and if you don't sniff model cement it is harmless,except for the little patches that dry on your fingers, and who the heckwants government in our hobbies anyway, and it has never hurt me and I'veused it most of my life. And you know what? That isn't the point at all!The point is, given the suspicions raised by these tests and statements, AREYOU WILLING TO TAKE THE CHANCE? Lee----- Original Message ----- Douglas P. Easton ; Rodmakers (E-mail) Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Yes, I've been using model cement, and dopes, and epoxies of all kinds,>since 1937. I've sprayed dopes in a closed garage, and blown theover-sprayout of my nose for a week. Never so much as a sore throat ! When you dostupid things, like sticking your head in a plastic bag, so all oxygen isdeprived, that's a totally different matter. Now, here in Texas, we can no longer buy acrylic lacquer for auto painting!I'd really like to know what basis they used for messing with our old sparvarnishes ! My can of Valspar, purchased recently, sets dust free in about2hours ! That's a far cry from the original, that took far longer. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ; ;"Douglas P. Easton" ; "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:17 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Ironically George it is these same Govt.' agencies who usually maketheworst of the messes and allow them to happen.As far as the model glue, in all my years of model building I nevernoticedany side effects...side effects...side effects....side effects....whatwasIsaying??? Where am I?;^) ;^) ;^)Shawn Pineonobler wrote: I don't take any of these various chemicals lightly, nor do I speakwithless than over 60 years of using many of them ! The description givenhere,could just as easily apply to gasoline ! I don't of any massivemovementtoeliminate this vital fluid. It fact these organizations have managedtocontaminate with this "oxygenated" gas, much worse that the smog itwassupposed to help curtail. It won't be long before we see these foulfuelsrevert back to much cleaner fuels, more like they used to be ! The pure facts are that in order to perpetuate their jobs, thesegovernmentagencies have created false panic, when proper use, and commonsensebeliedthe need ! The result of these agency's actions, funded by our tax dollars, haveeliminated some products entirely, and greatly affected the quality ofmanyothers ! I stand by my statements, and claims in the first posting, as I haveusedthousands of gallons of many flammable liquids, with not one evenclosecall, in all these years ! The user simply must use discretion in howtheyare used ! Here in Texas, they locked up all spray paint, so teenagerscouldn't sniff it. They also banned the sale of model airplane cementforthe same reason. All the while, they could buy a gallon of manythinners,that could do a many times more damage ! What I'm speaking of here, is accepting responsibility for your ownactions,and the return to using good old "horse sense" ! This is a vote forlessgovernment in our lives, and to stop trying to get something fornothing! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas P. Easton" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:13 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) All, Let's get this straight. We need to have our facts together when wediscusschemical safety and environmental regulations. Both Lee and Georgearenotentirely correct in their assessment of MEK safety issues. The bestway tofind out about these things is to visit the web sites of OSHA EPA,chemicalmanufacturers and University Chemical Safety Departments. I amprovidingthe following URLS RE: MEK National Academy of Sciences (OSHA) USA Guidelines FOR USE: http://www.osha- slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/ethylamylketone/recognition.html Canadian OSHA: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for MEK from Manufacturer: http://chem- courses.ucsd.edu/CoursePages/Uglabs/MSDS/methyl.ethyl.ketone.- fisher.html Environmental concerns: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/2butanon.html My interpretation:1. MEK is NOT a known or suspected carcinogen (it may cause birthdefects).2. MEK is a serious neurotoxin and can make you very sick at highexposurelevels3. MEK is a SERIOUS fire hazard4. MEK is a potential skin irritant5. MEK is acutely toxic on ingestion6. MEK must be used with proper ventilation (if you use a fan itshould beEXPLOSION PROOF).7. You should protect your skin from contact (use appropriategloves).6. Do not use MEK when a safer solvent might do.7. Find a means for recycling your MEK waste PLEASE NOTE:There are some groups who feel that MEK is carcinogenic andteratogenicandhas caused this sort of harm in the workplace. I can not say whethertheyare correct or not. I can only say that they are in the minority. Emergency Overview ( from J.F. Baker Site)--------------------------DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAYCAUSEFLASHFIRE. HARMFUL OR FATAL IFSWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN.AFFECTSCENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for yourconvenience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------Health Rating: 2 - ModerateFlammability Rating: 4 - Extreme (Flammable)Reactivity Rating: 2 - ModerateContact Rating: 2 - ModerateLab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPERGLOVES;CLASS B EXTINGUISHERStorage Color Code: Red (Flammable) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Potential Health Effects---------------------------------- Inhalation:Causes irritation to the nose and throat. Concentrations abovetheTLVmay cause headache, dizziness, nausea, shortness of breath, andvomiting.Higher concentrations may cause central nervous systemdepressionandunconsciousness.Ingestion:May produce abdominal pain, nausea. Aspiration into lungs canproducesevere lung damage and is a medical emergency. Other symptomsexpectedto parallel inhalation.Skin Contact:Causes irritation to skin. Symptoms include redness, itching,andpain. May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemiceffects.Eye Contact:Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes can produce painfulirritation and eye damage.Chronic Exposure:Prolonged skin contact may defat the skin and producedermatitis.Chronic exposure may cause central nervous system effects.Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems orimpairedrespiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects ofthesubstance. Regards, -Doug Easton At 10:40 AM 6/11/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous to yourhealth,it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned"chemicalsarebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio that wouldamounttoa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55gal.drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However theEPAbasessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them ! It'sallpartof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them, andthe"treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-parproducts! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:36 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN to be aseriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, as oneinstance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant stillusingthatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous.DONOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a few otherbannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to your bodywon'thelpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents of anysort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and wellventilatedspaceto work in. Lee Freeman from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Jun 11 21:28:43 2000 e5C2SgG22197 Sun, 11 Jun 2000 19:28:38 PDT Subject: $500 RODS I have been making a $500(retail) rod for the last five years. Not too hard to do but there is no time for 'custom' work. They are all built to a standard pattern and I offer only four models. I build them four at a time to cut the time to set up for each operation. I was curious when George tried to do the same thing, he admited that the only rods that would sell about $5-600 after that. I think that he underestimated how cantankerous bamboo is to work with. After seeing a few of them the result was dissapointing. No matter what the price the angling public won't accept junk, there is no lomger a market for the cheaper factory built type of rod. There is however a healthy market for quality production rods(ie: Heddon, Granger, Phillipson...)A builder has to address the challenge that interests him, alot of one at a time, perfect works of art seems to be the main focus now but those rods always had a limited market. George had a good idea but his lack of experience with bamboo and his somewhat contrary nature hampered him. To build a good base ofknowlegable buyers for high end cane I think that more builders might want to address the challenge of high quality production work. Without that I don't know where the high end market will incubate their future customer base.A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 11 21:33:40 2000 e5C2XeG22366 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Taper boundary="------------9F94D51F4160AA915DD5781B" --------------9F94D51F4160AA915DD5781B I sent this back a while ago and i think the list was having problems atthat time and it never made it through so I'm re sending it. Hope itgets some responses this time. Also if anyone has any penta tapers feelfree to send those to me! TIA Hey guys,while looking through a book tonight I found an articlewhich contained a taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have beenwritten by Claude M Kreider? The taper doesn't appear to be in his bookthough.It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say what wtit is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize thetaper and be able to give us some info on the rod. The taper is on6"stations. If anyone builds it let me know how it goes. BUTT TIP0 .360 .2356 .360 .22012 .360 .20018 .340 .18024 .320 .16030 .295 .14036 .275 .12042 .250 .09548 .235 .075 Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn --------------9F94D51F4160AA915DD5781B I sent this back a while ago and i think the list was having problems atthat time and it never made it through so I'm re sending it. Hope it getssome responses this time. Also if anyone has any penta tapers feel freeto send those to me! TIAHey guys, while looking through a book tonight I found an article which containeda taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have been written by ClaudeM Kreider? The taper doesn't appear to be in his book though.It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say whatwt it is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize the taper and be ableto give us some info on the rod. The taper is on 6"stations. If anyonebuilds it let me know how it goes. TIP .235 .220 .200 .180 .160 .140 .120 .095 .075Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn --------------9F94D51F4160AA915DD5781B-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jun 11 21:52:36 2000 e5C2qZG22706 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! rcurry@ttlc.net,richard.nantel@videotron.ca List,Be really careful when you use MEK or any of the HOT solvents. A number of years back there was a lady in the neighborhood who used to strip furniture and refinish it. One day she was cleaning stripper off a piece with MEK (laquer thinner) and she had the furnace fire up (she was doing this in her basement) BOOOOMMM she killed herself from the explosion and hadextensive burns all over her body. I was a fireman at this time and it was one of the worst things I ever witnessed. GUYS BE CAREFUL WITH THESE THINGSADEQUATE VENTILATION AND EXPLOSION PROOF FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from channer1@rmi.net Sun Jun 11 21:59:00 2000 e5C2wxG22892 Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" Ralph W Moon wrote: John,I am glad that at least one person on the rod list can read. It seemsobvious that most cannot. I have never read such a mishmash of halftruths, distortions even outright lies. Jim's purpose was to lamentthat we do not have an equivalent to the older rod and silk line feelwith today's Graphite rods and fluffy lines. He further makes thepoint that the majority of modern rod makers are contributing to thisloss by continuing to propagate rod tapers a half century old. Oldrods and modern lines do not mix, and just because someone canrecreate a PHY taper does not mean that it will perform like the samerod with a silk line. The challenge that Jim makes is to in some waymake a modern cane rod silk line combination without charging $2000 challenged any body to make a $150 rod. He is astute enough to knowthat that is not possible. What he is asking in effect is if all ofus dumb bamboo rod makers are so smart why are we using old taperswith modern lines. Why not design rods to use a silk line, create ademand, and give back something that is missing from fly fishing.Give it up fellows. Read the article before you attack it, then onlyif you are man enough face up to the challenger instead of carpingbehind his back.Better still answer his challenge: "How many rodmakers are makingcane rods for silk lines????" Ralph Ralph;I think that inadvertently, all of us who use the old tapers are makingrods for silk lines. Personally, I see no reason to re-invent the wheel,and I don't have the time or production machinery necessary to endlesslyexperiment with tapers, so I use the ones that are available and thankmy lucky stars that they are out there for me to use. BTW, my thanks toPHY, Leonard,Payne, Garrison,et al, for all their hard work and devotionto their art, without them I would just be making tapered tomato stakes.John from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jun 11 22:00:22 2000 e5C30LG23002 Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4/rubber gloves Le,Unless you wear the really heavy gloves like for wood stripping the solvents will go thru anyway. The thin surgical types are useless to stop the solvent from penetrating.Bret from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Jun 11 22:55:59 2000 e5C3twG23939 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4/rubber gloves richard.nantel@videotron.ca Importance: Normal Use the blue Nitrile gloves, they are resistant to most solvents, unlike thelatex gloves that disintergrate upon contact with most of the solvents weuse... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4/rubber gloves Le,Unless you wear the really heavy gloves like for wood stripping the solventswill go thru anyway. The thin surgical types are useless to stop thesolvent from penetrating.Bret from stpete@netten.net Sun Jun 11 23:01:26 2000 e5C41QG24164 Subject: Old Braided Nylon Fly lines List, I have found and stripped 4 old braided nylon fly lines which I havemanaged to collect with some silk lines. Out of 7 lines found, 4 werenylon, 3 were silk, two of which I think are useable. Question, should I just shelve the nylon lines? Or are they worthfinishing? Rick C. from thardy@foxinternet.net Mon Jun 12 01:12:20 2000 e5C6CJG25981 mailsite.foxinternet.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.2.2) with ESMTP idfor;Sun, 11 Jun 2000 23:09:35 -0700User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Mr. Thramer, $500 rods Fantastic to hear from A.J. Thramer again. I was just about to give up onthis list. Tom Hardy from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Jun 12 04:59:51 2000 e5C9xmG28838 Subject: Shawn Pineo Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BFD4A8.02F702C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BFD4A8.02F702C0 I think that one of the really great things about this list is that you =get some really good advice from people who know what they're talking =about; It is only common sense to listen to the warnings.Good one, Shawn! Well said!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BFD4A8.02F702C0 I think that one of the really great = this list is that you get some really good advice from people who know = warnings.Good one, Shawn! Well =said!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BFD4A8.02F702C0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Jun 12 06:02:17 2000 e5CB2FG29891 Subject: Phillipson Smuggler Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0152_01BFD4B0.BE315560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01BFD4B0.BE315560 I have a Phillipson Smuggler which someone has done a tip swap on, and =replaced a broken(?) tip with a tip section from a very different =Farlow's rod cut down.I would like to make a replacement tip for the rod; does anybody know =the figures for the Smuggler, please.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01BFD4B0.BE315560 I have a Phillipson Smuggler which = a tip swap on, and replaced a broken(?) tip with a tip section from a = different Farlow's rod cut down.I would like to make a replacement tip = does anybody know the figures for the Smuggler, please.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01BFD4B0.BE315560-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jun 12 06:26:12 2000 e5CBQBG00518 Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:26:06 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4/rubber gloves Not sure, but I think the nitrile ones will work. Check with a safety supplyplace they carry gloves for most chemicals!Shawn Pineo Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Le,Unless you wear the really heavy gloves like for wood stripping the solventswill go thru anyway. The thin surgical types are useless to stop thesolvent from penetrating.Bret from lars32@gateway.net Mon Jun 12 07:55:15 2000 e5CCtEG01913 Subject: Re: JC's "challenge" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01BFD444.E9AF2EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BFD444.E9AF2EE0 What ever happened to "live and let live?"Dave N.-----Original Message----- From: Ralph W Moon Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:48 PMSubject: Re: JC's "challenge" I am glad that at least one person on the rod list can read. It =seems obvious that most cannot. I have never read such a mishmash of =half truths, distortions even outright lies. Jim's purpose was to =lament that we do not have an equivalent to the older rod and silk line =feel with today's Graphite rods and fluffy lines. He further makes the =point that the majority of modern rod makers are contributing to this =loss by continuing to propagate rod tapers a half century old. Old rods =and modern lines do not mix, and just because someone can recreate a PHY =taper does not mean that it will perform like the same rod with a silk =line. The challenge that Jim makes is to in some way make a modern cane =rod silk line combination without charging $2000 for the rod and $250 = $150 rod. He is astute enough to know that that is not possible. What =he is asking in effect is if all of us dumb bamboo rod makers are so =smart why are we using old tapers with modern lines. Why not design =rods to use a silk line, create a demand, and give back something that =is missing from fly fishing. Give it up fellows. Read the article =before you attack it, then only if you are man enough face up to the = Better still answer his challenge: "How many rodmakers are making = ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BFD444.E9AF2EE0 What ever happened to "liveand = live?"Dave N. -----Original = =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= "challenge"John, I am glad that= equivalent to the older rod and silk line feel with today's Graphite = modern rod makers are contributing to this loss by continuing to = and just because someone can recreate a PHY taper does not mean that = makes is to in some way make a modern cane rod silk line combination = nowhere in the article challenged any body to make a = he is asking in effect is if all of us dumb bamboo rod makers are so = rods to use a silk line, create a demand, and give back something = challenger instead of carping behind his back. Better still = ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BFD444.E9AF2EE0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 12 08:04:41 2000 e5CD4eG02243 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:05:56 -0500 , Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! We had a rash of home explosions here, back in the 1960's and '70's. A goodhousewife would try to get her hubby's work clothes really clean, by pouringgasoline in the washing machine. It's pretty clear what happened when sheturned the machine on ! Using common sense with anything, is primary ! GMA----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! List,Be really careful when you use MEK or any of the HOT solvents. A numberofyears back there was a lady in the neighborhood who used to stripfurnitureand refinish it. One day she was cleaning stripper off a piece with MEK(laquer thinner) and she had the furnace fire up (she was doing this inherbasement) BOOOOMMM she killed herself from the explosion and hadextensiveburns all over her body. I was a fireman at this time and it was one oftheworst things I ever witnessed. GUYS BE CAREFUL WITH THESE THINGSADEQUATEVENTILATION AND EXPLOSION PROOF FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 12 08:14:27 2000 e5CDEQG02894 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Tony Spezio wrote: I guess I will pipe in here,I have worked with aircraft most of my life. Started at age 16 and left theindustry in 1990 at age 60. My specialty was dope and fabric work on lightaircraft and was around the MEK stuff before all the warnings. I amsuffering from it now with shortness of breath and other things. George is rightaboutusing it with extreme care but when we were using it it was just part of thejoband no precautions were taken. Guys, it is too late for me, but avoid itentirely if you can.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Lee Freeman wrote: Guys, Well, I guess we sort of touched one off, huh? Seems many of us havecommonbackgrounds. I too build and fly model aircraft, have used dope, allmannerof glues and cements, and epoxies for most of my life and I too starteddoing this in 1937. Okay, now all that was not said to impress. It wassaidto qualify. The list of ill effects put on the list by Doug (I believe itwas he) was frightening, to say the least. Yeah, I agree thatGovernmentknows less than half of what it speaks to, and the tests the labsconductedare totally suspect, and if you don't sniff model cement it is harmless,except for the little patches that dry on your fingers, and who the heckwants government in our hobbies anyway, and it has never hurt me andI'veused it most of my life. And you know what? That isn't the point at all!The point is, given the suspicions raised by these tests and statements,AREYOU WILLING TO TAKE THE CHANCE? Lee----- Original Message -----From: nobler Cc: ; ;;Douglas P. Easton ; Rodmakers (E-mail) Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 5:32 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Yes, I've been using model cement, and dopes, and epoxies of all kinds,since 1937. I've sprayed dopes in a closed garage, and blown theover-sprayout of my nose for a week. Never so much as a sore throat ! When youdostupid things, like sticking your head in a plastic bag, so all oxygen isdeprived, that's a totally different matter. Now, here in Texas, we can no longer buy acrylic lacquer for autopainting!I'd really like to know what basis they used for messing with our oldsparvarnishes ! My can of Valspar, purchased recently, sets dust free inabout2hours ! That's a far cry from the original, that took far longer. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ;;"Douglas P. Easton" ; "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 7:17 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) Ironically George it is these same Govt.' agencies who usually maketheworst of the messes and allow them to happen.As far as the model glue, in all my years of model building I nevernoticedany side effects...side effects...side effects....side effects....whatwasIsaying??? Where am I?;^) ;^) ;^)Shawn Pineonobler wrote: I don't take any of these various chemicals lightly, nor do I speakwithless than over 60 years of using many of them ! The descriptiongivenhere,could just as easily apply to gasoline ! I don't of any massivemovementtoeliminate this vital fluid. It fact these organizations have managedtocontaminate with this "oxygenated" gas, much worse that thesmog itwassupposed to help curtail. It won't be long before we see these foulfuelsrevert back to much cleaner fuels, more like they used to be ! The pure facts are that in order to perpetuate their jobs, thesegovernmentagencies have created false panic, when proper use, and commonsensebeliedthe need ! The result of these agency's actions, funded by our tax dollars,haveeliminated some products entirely, and greatly affected the qualityofmanyothers ! I stand by my statements, and claims in the first posting, as I haveusedthousands of gallons of many flammable liquids, with not one evenclosecall, in all these years ! The user simply must use discretion in howtheyare used ! Here in Texas, they locked up all spray paint, soteenagerscouldn't sniff it. They also banned the sale of model airplanecementforthe same reason. All the while, they could buy a gallon of manythinners,that could do a many times more damage ! What I'm speaking of here, is accepting responsibility for your ownactions,and the return to using good old "horse sense" ! This is a vote forlessgovernment in our lives, and to stop trying to get something fornothing! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: "Douglas P. Easton" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:13 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS) All, Let's get this straight. We need to have our facts together whenwediscusschemical safety and environmental regulations. Both Lee andGeorgearenotentirely correct in their assessment of MEK safety issues. Thebestway tofind out about these things is to visit the web sites of OSHA EPA,chemicalmanufacturers and University Chemical Safety Departments. Iamprovidingthe following URLS RE: MEK National Academy of Sciences (OSHA) USA Guidelines FOR USE: http://www.osha- slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/ethylamylketone/recognition.html Canadian OSHA: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for MEK from Manufacturer: http://chem- courses.ucsd.edu/CoursePages/Uglabs/MSDS/methyl.ethyl.ketone.- fisher.html Environmental concerns: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/2butanon.html My interpretation:1. MEK is NOT a known or suspected carcinogen (it may causebirthdefects).2. MEK is a serious neurotoxin and can make you very sick at highexposurelevels3. MEK is a SERIOUS fire hazard4. MEK is a potential skin irritant5. MEK is acutely toxic on ingestion6. MEK must be used with proper ventilation (if you use a fan itshould beEXPLOSION PROOF).7. You should protect your skin from contact (use appropriategloves).6. Do not use MEK when a safer solvent might do.7. Find a means for recycling your MEK waste PLEASE NOTE:There are some groups who feel that MEK is carcinogenic andteratogenicandhas caused this sort of harm in the workplace. I can not saywhethertheyare correct or not. I can only say that they are in the minority. Emergency Overview ( from J.F. Baker Site)--------------------------DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPORMAY CAUSEFLASHFIRE. HARMFUL OR FATAL IFSWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGHSKIN. AFFECTSCENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for yourconvenience) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------Health Rating: 2 - ModerateFlammability Rating: 4 - Extreme (Flammable)Reactivity Rating: 2 - ModerateContact Rating: 2 - ModerateLab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD;PROPERGLOVES;CLASS B EXTINGUISHERStorage Color Code: Red (Flammable) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- Potential Health Effects---------------------------------- Inhalation:Causes irritation to the nose and throat. ConcentrationsabovetheTLVmay cause headache, dizziness, nausea, shortness of breath, andvomiting.Higher concentrations may cause central nervous systemdepressionandunconsciousness.Ingestion:May produce abdominal pain, nausea. Aspiration into lungs canproducesevere lung damage and is a medical emergency. Othersymptomsexpectedto parallel inhalation.Skin Contact:Causes irritation to skin. Symptoms include redness, itching,andpain. May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemiceffects.Eye Contact:Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes can producepainfulirritation and eye damage.Chronic Exposure:Prolonged skin contact may defat the skin and producedermatitis.Chronic exposure may cause central nervous system effects.Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems orimpairedrespiratory function may be more susceptible to the effectsofthesubstance. Regards, -Doug Easton At 10:40 AM 6/11/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:The EPA has listed so many chemicals that are dangerous toyourhealth,it'sat the point of being down right silly. Many of these "banned"chemicalsarebased on using them in a closed environment, at a ratio thatwouldamounttoa rat drinking them in drum quantities ! I used to buy MEK in 55gal.drums! You don't inhale the fumes, nor take a bath in it. However theEPAbasessuch rulings on an unsupervised child having access to them !It'sallpartof this insurance crazy/lawsuit world we have ! Between them,andthe"treehuggers", we soon will have nothing left but water based sub-parproducts! Just look what has happened to our old spar varnishes ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:36 AMSubject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4 Hey Fellas, I don't mean to be a doomsayer, but MEK has been PROVEN tobe aseriouscarcinogenic and was barred some years ago from use in, asoneinstance,military electronics. The Feds will close down any plant stillusingthatstuff. It is absorbed through the skin and is quite dangerous.DONOTfoolwith this stuff! I know its a great solvent, as were a fewotherbannedsolvents like carbon tetrachloride, but the damage to yourbodywon'thelpyou enjoy that nice silk line. When working with solvents ofanysort,don't forget you rubber gloves and the nice open and wellventilatedspaceto work in. Lee Freeman from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 12 08:17:57 2000 e5CDHuG03075 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:19:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4/rubber gloves Gloves can cause an even worse condition, in that a small cut in them, willallow the solvent inside, and you'll really get chemically burned badly !You must have very heavy, industrial chemical protectant gloves, if you mustexpose your hands to it. I've used hundreds of gallons of MEK, etc., andlearned early on ! You also use out in open air, NOT indoors ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4/rubber gloves Le,Unless you wear the really heavy gloves like for wood stripping thesolventswill go thru anyway. The thin surgical types are useless to stop thesolvent from penetrating.Bret from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Mon Jun 12 08:44:49 2000 e5CDimG04076 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:44:45 EDT Subject: Wooden Planing forms Drilled the holes for my wooden planing forms and have made one mistakethat I need advice on. I messed up on one of the push holes and need toknow if I can redrill it at a point not directly on the same line as thepull hole, or can I drill a hole a little higher and get adequateresults ? Jim Tefft from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Mon Jun 12 08:55:47 2000 e5CDtkG04576 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:55:46 EDT Subject: New Tapers for New Lines As a beginning rodmaker this is an interesting topic for me.I know about the various caches of old tapers on the list and in books.Are the new tapers being kept close to the vest or has there been somedocumentation ? I have been out of touch with the measuring, drilling, turning etc for anumber of years but the laying out of my wooden forms brought back howmuch I missed that type of tinkering. Glad I have a patient wife causeall that was done in her kitchen on the kitchen counter which currentlyis the available work space. Jim T from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jun 12 09:01:33 2000 e5CE1XG04901 Subject: Re: $500 RODS In a message dated 6/11/00 7:29:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: AJ,With the price of shorter old production rods heading for the $1,000range (Granger, Heddon and Phillipson - Leonard heading for the $2,000 range),your $500 rod is a bargain! Oops, I shouldn't say that until after I can afford to buy one! Of course, many of the the old production rods weren't all that bad casting, but a modern rod, like yours, is light-years ahead in fit and finish. I've told many people in my FF club that if they really wanted to buy a bamboo rod to look to a modern maker and don't mess around with a 9'0" flea market fixer- upper. Our club holds raffles at each monthly meeting - a rod, a reel and misc. others items are raffled off. Some are donated, others are purchased forthe raffle. Not enough money flows in monthly for a bamboo rod, but at theannual BBQ/picnic/auction lot's of items go for hundreds of dollars. If someone interested in marketing a low-cost rod offered FF clubs a discounted $500 or less rod as an auction piece for their annual club money- raiser function, he'd be busy all year round. IMHO, Don Burns from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 12 10:42:50 2000 e5CFgnG08693 Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:42:40 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Wooden Planing forms boundary="------------3685ED6860455F433168FA60" --------------3685ED6860455F433168FA60 Jim Tefft wrote: Drilled the holes for my wooden planing forms and have made one mistakethat I need advice on. I messed up on one of the push holes and need toknow if I can redrill it at a point not directly on the same line as thepull hole, or can I drill a hole a little higher and get adequateresults ? Jim Tefft Jim,If you drill the hole higher, there might be a chance that the pushingwould skew the angle of the forms. You might move it a little farther tothe side of the push screw.On my steel forms, I broke a tap off in one of the last push holes.Rather than starting over again, I just moved to the other side of the pushhole, and drilled another. Seems to work fine. Pat's rod was made on thoseforms. Original push Pull New push----- 5 inches ------- push pull--- etc.() O() () O Does this make sense? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------3685ED6860455F433168FA60 Jim Tefft wrote:Drilled the holes for my wooden planing forms andhave made one mistakethat I need advice on. I messed up on one of the push holes and needtoknow if I can redrill it at a point not directly on the same line asthepull hole, or can I drill a hole a little higher and get adequateresults ?Jim Tefft Jim, it a little farther to the side of the push screw. pull --- etc. O --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------3685ED6860455F433168FA60-- from dhaftel@att.com Mon Jun 12 11:53:56 2000 e5CGrtG11205 MAA15598; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: RE: Phillipson Smuggler Peter, You can find the taper in Frank Stetzer's Hexrod archives at:http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/stetzer/hexrod-c.pl Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Phillipson Smuggler I have a Phillipson Smuggler which someone has done a tip swap on, andreplaced a broken(?) tip with a tip section from a very different Farlow'srod cut down.I would like to make a replacement tip for the rod; does anybody know thefigures for the Smuggler, please.Peter from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Jun 12 12:24:28 2000 e5CHORG12256 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Importance: Normal Thank you to all who responded to my post about removing new varnish fromasilk line. The discussions about health concerns were intersting andeducational. I had decided to try MEK, following the health precautionssuggested by list members. When I arrived at the hardware store, I found aproduct called: Safest Stripper by 3M. According to the label, it worksbest on lacquers and varnishes. It requires no ventilation, it is notflammable, no gloves are required. Based on it's appearance, I'd say theactive ingredient is yogurt. They do say to avoid getting it in your eyes,though. So, I left a line soaking in it for half an hour, then passed it through aclean cloth and voila! the varnish is gone. I immersed the line in waterafter to rinse it clean. Seems to have done the trick. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:36 PM Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silklines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water techniqueto restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decidedto mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with theresults so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I'vedecided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking sodamethod. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I letthe line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from piscator@crosswinds.net Mon Jun 12 13:49:57 2000 e5CInuG15641 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: $500 RODS I think Bob Summers has a good take on this. He sells his rods and alsovariousgrades of old rods from South Bend on up. There's something for everypricerange, he's turning inventory and generating cash, and when his customesareready to make the jump to a custom rod he's right there ready to help them. Not that I'll ever be the rod maker Bob is, but I enjoy working on restorationwork because of the practice I get in a lot of skills I'll always need to getbetter at, like wrapping and varnishing. It also gives me a built in excuseto buy a rod that I know I won't keep, but still covet. "It's 'inventory,'Dear, I'm not buying this to fish with, just to sell." Brian I have been making a $500(retail) rod for the last five years. Not too hard to do but there is no time for 'custom' work. They are all built to a standard pattern and I offer only four models. I build them four at a time to cut the time to set up for each operation. I was curious when George tried to do the same thing, he admited that the only rods that would sell about $5-600 after that. I think that he underestimated how cantankerous bamboo is to work with. After seeing a few of them the result was dissapointing. No matter what the price the angling public won't accept junk, there is no lomger a market for the cheaper factory built type of rod. There is however a healthy market for quality production rods(ie: Heddon, Granger, Phillipson...)A builder has to address the challenge that interests him, alot of one at a time, perfect works of art seems to be the main focus now but those rods always had a limited market. George had a good idea but his lack of experience with bamboo and his somewhat contrary nature hampered him. To build a good base ofknowlegable buyers for high end cane I think that more builders might want to address the challenge of high quality production work. Without that I don't know where the high end market will incubate their future customer base.A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from anglport@con2.com Mon Jun 12 14:04:52 2000 e5CJ4qG16426 ESMTP(SMTPD32-6.00) id A2379E202BA; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:55:51 -0400 bh887@lafn.org,rcurry@ttlc.net, richard.nantel@videotron.ca Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! I can't remember where I read it, but I paid attention because my father-in- law had a SERIOUS heart condition and was stripping paint at the time, but I DID read that MEK was a real threat to people with potential heart attacks in their future. I wish I could be more specific, but if you have any heart problems, PLEASE check this out before using the junk!Art At 10:51 PM 06/11/2000 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Be really careful when you use MEK or any of the HOT solvents. A numberofyears back there was a lady in the neighborhood who used to strip furnitureand refinish it. One day she was cleaning stripper off a piece with MEK(laquer thinner) and she had the furnace fire up (she was doing this in herbasement) BOOOOMMM she killed herself from the explosion and hadextensiveburns all over her body. I was a fireman at this time and it was one of theworst things I ever witnessed. GUYS BE CAREFUL WITH THESE THINGSADEQUATEVENTILATION AND EXPLOSION PROOF FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jun 12 14:11:09 2000 e5CJB8G16770 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Safest Stripper - Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Importance: Normal That stuff is the greatest... It's great for stripping varnish on rods forrestoration... I goop some on a rod, wrap the sections in plastic so it doesn't evaporateand let is sit an hour or so and the varnish usually comes off with oneapplication, unless it's got a lot of thick coats then a second applicationis sometimes needed... Good tip on the silk lines, I'll have to try it... Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly lines one ofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it to my website.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE Thank you to all who responded to my post about removing new varnish fromasilk line. The discussions about health concerns were intersting andeducational. I had decided to try MEK, following the health precautionssuggested by list members. When I arrived at the hardware store, I found aproduct called: Safest Stripper by 3M. According to the label, it worksbest on lacquers and varnishes. It requires no ventilation, it is notflammable, no gloves are required. Based on it's appearance, I'd say theactive ingredient is yogurt. They do say to avoid getting it in your eyes,though. So, I left a line soaking in it for half an hour, then passed it through aclean cloth and voila! the varnish is gone. I immersed the line in waterafter to rinse it clean. Seems to have done the trick. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:36 PM Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silklines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water techniqueto restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decidedto mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with theresults so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I'vedecided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking sodamethod. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I letthe line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jun 12 14:13:09 2000 e5CJD8G16888 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:08:33 -0500 , , , Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! Boy, isn't it funny how all this info comes out a couple of decades aftereveryone gets soaked in this stuff! When I was in the Air Force, we cleanedM61-A1 barrels in MEK. Geez, we practically took a bath in this stuff 3 or4 times a week. Of course, that was before it was anything dangerous.Well, considering my blatant exposure to it, and my family history ofheart disease, then I guess I can say "To hell with this diet!!!" run to theGrocery store, get a couple of pounds of strawberries, some shortcake andacart full of whipped cream, cause I figure I'm gonna die anyways, prettysoon, now! Oh, Being of sound mine (questionable), I leave my planing formsto Harry, My scraper to Art and my beer recipe to Mike B. "To live healthy is to die healthy" ....some dead guy... Later,Bob :^)-----Original Message----- ; nobler@satx.rr.com ;bh887@lafn.org; rcurry@ttlc.net ;richard.nantel@videotron.ca Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! I can't remember where I read it, but I paid attention because myfather-in- law had a SERIOUS heart condition and was stripping paint at thetime, but I DID read that MEK was a real threat to people with potentialheart attacks in their future. I wish I could be more specific, but if youhave any heart problems, PLEASE check this out before using the junk!Art At 10:51 PM 06/11/2000 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Be really careful when you use MEK or any of the HOT solvents. A numberofyears back there was a lady in the neighborhood who used to stripfurnitureand refinish it. One day she was cleaning stripper off a piece with MEK(laquer thinner) and she had the furnace fire up (she was doing this inherbasement) BOOOOMMM she killed herself from the explosion and hadextensiveburns all over her body. I was a fireman at this time and it was one oftheworst things I ever witnessed. GUYS BE CAREFUL WITH THESE THINGSADEQUATEVENTILATION AND EXPLOSION PROOF FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jun 12 14:17:23 2000 e5CJHMG17108 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:12:48 -0500 "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: Safest Stripper - Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart On GMA's advice, (I think it was you George) I used Citristrip to strip acouple of old rods. The stuff did a good job and was nice to have the shopsmell like orange peels instead of Aircraft stripper. Bob-----Original Message----- (E-mail)' Subject: Safest Stripper - Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart That stuff is the greatest... It's great for stripping varnish on rods forrestoration... I goop some on a rod, wrap the sections in plastic so it doesn't evaporateand let is sit an hour or so and the varnish usually comes off with oneapplication, unless it's got a lot of thick coats then a second applicationis sometimes needed... Good tip on the silk lines, I'll have to try it... Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly lines one ofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it to my website.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:40 AM Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE Thank you to all who responded to my post about removing new varnish from asilk line. The discussions about health concerns were intersting andeducational. I had decided to try MEK, following the health precautionssuggested by list members. When I arrived at the hardware store, I found aproduct called: Safest Stripper by 3M. According to the label, it worksbest on lacquers and varnishes. It requires no ventilation, it is notflammable, no gloves are required. Based on it's appearance, I'd say theactive ingredient is yogurt. They do say to avoid getting it in your eyes,though. So, I left a line soaking in it for half an hour, then passed it through aclean cloth and voila! the varnish is gone. I immersed the line in waterafter to rinse it clean. Seems to have done the trick. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:36 PM Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silklines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water techniqueto restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decidedto mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with theresults so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I'vedecided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking sodamethod. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I letthe line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from steve@hamiltonrods.com Mon Jun 12 14:18:22 2000 e5CJILG17239 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Attic as a rod "closet"? e5CJIMG17240 I live in a very humid climate. As such, I'm worried about moisture creepinginto my rods over time. I have been storing my rods in the trunk of my car intheir rod tubes with the caps off. I had one test rod that I stored "naked"(not inside anything) on my garage workbench. That rod now easily takes aset when fishing, but that might be due to incorrect heat treating duringconstruction rather than reentrant moisture. I'd like to store my rods in a warm dry rod closet. My plan has always been tobuy a storage closet and put a space heater in the bottom of it and a coupleof vent holes in the top. Anyone else done that successfully? However, warm isn't hard to acheive around here--it's the dry that's difficultto get. I went up into my attic the other day an it was certainly warm enough(around 115 degrees F), but I'm not sure about the humidity--it felt dry butwho knows. What I'm considering doing instead of building a closet is hangingthe rod bags up in the attic and perhaps putting a bucket of DampRidbeneath them. Would that work? Any advice? --Steve from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Jun 12 14:27:09 2000 e5CJR8G17700 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE Importance: Normal It seems your common sense has exceeded the collective wisdomand sidetracksof this group . :)) Common sense? You over estimate my abilities my friend. I knew nothing ofthis product and tried it purely because it was at eye level on a shelf andit had a catchy name. Glad I found it, though. I've just stripped threelines and it worked beautifully. Richard from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 12 15:13:23 2000 e5CKDMG19438 Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:13:17 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Attic as a rod "closet"? Steve Zimmerman wrote: What I'm considering doing instead of building a closet is hanging the rodbags up in the attic and perhaps putting a bucket of DampRid beneath them.Would that work? Steve,Some of the heating & a/c guys on here can tell you more than I can, but Iremember Wayne C. telling me that to effectively remove humidity, you haveto raise the ambient temperature by a certain number of degrees for eachpercentage point of humidity. To remove any moisture from bamboo downhere in Louisiana, I had to get the temperature up to 145*F in the high heatand humidity of the summer. Attic temperatures hereroutinely reach 180-210*F in summer, so that may be a good solution.Far simpler, though, is just storing the rods in a piece of pvc pipe alongwith some silica gel dessicant. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 12 15:16:26 2000 e5CKGPG19590 Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:16:22 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! Bob Nunley wrote: .....cause I figure I'm gonna die anyways, pretty soon, now! Oh, Being ofsound mine (questionable), I leave my planing forms to Harry, My scrapertoArt and my beer recipe to Mike B. Bob,To hell with your forms. I already got forms. I want your Harley!!! LMAO,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 12 15:44:23 2000 e5CKiNG20504 Subject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! Art,You might of answered a question that has not been able to be answered. Ihad twoheart attacks in 1988 and they could find no physical reason for me havingthem.Will have to talk to my cardiologist about the MEK.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Art Port wrote: I can't remember where I read it, but I paid attention because myfather-in- law had a SERIOUS heart condition and was stripping paint at thetime, but I DID read that MEK was a real threat to people with potentialheart attacks in their future. I wish I could be more specific, but if youhave any heart problems, PLEASE check this out before using the junk!Art At 10:51 PM 06/11/2000 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Be really careful when you use MEK or any of the HOT solvents. A numberofyears back there was a lady in the neighborhood who used to stripfurnitureand refinish it. One day she was cleaning stripper off a piece with MEK(laquer thinner) and she had the furnace fire up (she was doing this in herbasement) BOOOOMMM she killed herself from the explosion and hadextensiveburns all over her body. I was a fireman at this time and it was one of theworst things I ever witnessed. GUYS BE CAREFUL WITH THESE THINGSADEQUATEVENTILATION AND EXPLOSION PROOF FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Jun 12 16:14:57 2000 e5CLEuG21505 Subject: Re: Taper Hi Shawn,As you can tell from my address I have a strong interest in pentas and thebest tapers that I developed are for a 7'3'' wt 4 and a 7'6'' wt 5. Theserods are fairly fast action to suit my fishing style and have safe stresslevels. If you are interested I will be happy to send them.When specifying penta tapers it is important to specify which of the threerelated diameters you are dealing with. There is the measured diameter(it'snot really a diameter) that you can mike, the inner diameter which you use I sent this back a while ago and i think the list was having problems atthat time and it never made it through so I'm re sending it. Hope itgets some responses this time. Also if anyone has any penta tapers feelfree to send those to me! TIA Hey guys,while looking through a book tonight I found an articlewhich contained a taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have beenwritten by Claude M Kreider? The taper doesn't appear to be in his bookthough.It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say what wtit is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize thetaper and be able to give us some info on the rod. The taper is on6"stations. If anyone builds it let me know how it goes. BUTT TIP0 .360 .2356 .360 .22012 .360 .20018 .340 .18024 .320 .16030 .295 .14036 .275 .12042 .250 .09548 .235 .075 Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn I sent this back a while ago and i think the list was having problems atthat time and it never made it through so I'm re sending it. Hope it getssome responses this time. Also if anyone has any penta tapers feel freeto send those to me! TIAHey guys, while looking through a book tonight I found an article which containeda taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have been written by ClaudeM Kreider? The taper doesn't appear to be in his book though.It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say whatwt it is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize the taper and be ableto give us some info on the rod. The taper is on 6"stations. If anyonebuilds it let me know how it goes. TIP .235 .220 .200 .180 .160 .140 .120 .095 .075Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn from bh887@lafn.org Mon Jun 12 16:26:58 2000 e5CLQvG21962 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE That's the same stuff Sinclair recommends in his book. Nice to hear itworks so well. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE Thank you to all who responded to my post about removing new varnishfromasilk line. The discussions about health concerns were intersting andeducational. I had decided to try MEK, following the health precautionssuggested by list members. When I arrived at the hardware store, I found aproduct called: Safest Stripper by 3M. According to the label, it worksbest on lacquers and varnishes. It requires no ventilation, it is notflammable, no gloves are required. Based on it's appearance, I'd say theactive ingredient is yogurt. They do say to avoid getting it in your eyes,though. So, I left a line soaking in it for half an hour, then passed it through aclean cloth and voila! the varnish is gone. I immersed the line in waterafter to rinse it clean. Seems to have done the trick. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:36 PM Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silklines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water techniqueto restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decidedto mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with theresults so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I'vedecided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking sodamethod. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I letthe line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Jun 12 16:32:51 2000 e5CLWoG22408 Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines I tried the candle stub on the Orvis braided leader, but I wasn't too taken byit. The wax left little white flakes on the leader, and when I tried to rub themin most of the time I just wiped them off. So, I tried beeswax. It's a lotsofter and stickier than candle wax. Beeswax works quite well, it even leavesa nice slick surface after rubbing it in a bit. The leader floats quite well. Idon't know how long the floatability will last, I guess I will find out on my nextfishing trip.Darryl from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 12 16:56:01 2000 e5CLu0G23394 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:42:23 -0500 "'Rodmakers \(E-mail\)'" Subject: Re: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE This is one of the strippers Mike Sinclair uses. Gentle stuff ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE Thank you to all who responded to my post about removing new varnishfromasilk line. The discussions about health concerns were intersting andeducational. I had decided to try MEK, following the health precautionssuggested by list members. When I arrived at the hardware store, I found aproduct called: Safest Stripper by 3M. According to the label, it worksbest on lacquers and varnishes. It requires no ventilation, it is notflammable, no gloves are required. Based on it's appearance, I'd say theactive ingredient is yogurt. They do say to avoid getting it in your eyes,though. So, I left a line soaking in it for half an hour, then passed it through aclean cloth and voila! the varnish is gone. I immersed the line in waterafter to rinse it clean. Seems to have done the trick. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:36 PM Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silklines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water techniqueto restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decidedto mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with theresults so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I'vedecided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking sodamethod. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I letthe line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 12 17:06:23 2000 e5CM6MG23766 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:52:40 -0500 ,"'Rodmakers \(E-mail\)'" Subject: Re: Safest Stripper - Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart I got the first Citristrip, sort of like Richard, just saw it had no badstuff and tried it, as I couldn't find the Safest Stripper. My wife laterfound it, and I've tried both. The Citristrip works faster, but both do agood job, and are safe. GMA----- Original Message ----- (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: Safest Stripper - Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart On GMA's advice, (I think it was you George) I used Citristrip to strip acouple of old rods. The stuff did a good job and was nice to have theshopsmell like orange peels instead of Aircraft stripper. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Darrell A. Lee 'Rodmakers(E-mail)' Date: Monday, June 12, 2000 2:06 PMSubject: Safest Stripper - Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart That stuff is the greatest... It's great for stripping varnish on rodsforrestoration... I goop some on a rod, wrap the sections in plastic so it doesn'tevaporateand let is sit an hour or so and the varnish usually comes off with oneapplication, unless it's got a lot of thick coats then a secondapplicationis sometimes needed... Good tip on the silk lines, I'll have to try it... Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly lines one ofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it to mywebsite.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:40 AM Subject: RE: Slik line bonanza part 4: UPDATE Thank you to all who responded to my post about removing new varnishfromasilk line. The discussions about health concerns were intersting andeducational. I had decided to try MEK, following the health precautionssuggested by list members. When I arrived at the hardware store, I foundaproduct called: Safest Stripper by 3M. According to the label, it worksbest on lacquers and varnishes. It requires no ventilation, it is notflammable, no gloves are required. Based on it's appearance, I'd say theactive ingredient is yogurt. They do say to avoid getting it in youreyes,though. So, I left a line soaking in it for half an hour, then passed it throughaclean cloth and voila! the varnish is gone. I immersed the line in waterafter to rinse it clean. Seems to have done the trick. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu NantelSent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:36 PM Subject: Slik line bonanza part 4 As some of you may remember, I came across eight nice silklines recently.I used Reed Curry's excellent baking soda and water techniqueto restorethem. Since I was unable to find tung varnish here, I decidedto mix my ownout of spar varnish and tung oil. I'm not happy with theresults so ordereda quart of Tung Varnish from Woodworker's Supply. I'vedecided to removethe finish I applied, once again using Reed's baking sodamethod. Problemis, the finish no longer comes off using this method. I letthe line soak suggestions? Thanks, Richard from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 12 17:08:43 2000 e5CM8gG23932 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:55:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Attic as a rod "closet"? I just keep mine in an A/C house, in a dark closet, and never put one upuntil it's had several days to dry, after fishing. No problems so far. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Attic as a rod "closet"? I live in a very humid climate. As such, I'm worried about moisturecreeping into my rods over time. I have been storing my rods in the trunk ofmy car in their rod tubes with the caps off. I had one test rod that Istored "naked" (not inside anything) on my garage workbench. That rod noweasily takes a set when fishing, but that might be due to incorrect heattreating during construction rather than reentrant moisture. I'd like to store my rods in a warm dry rod closet. My plan has alwaysbeen to buy a storage closet and put a space heater in the bottom of it anda couple of vent holes in the top. Anyone else done that successfully? However, warm isn't hard to acheive around here--it's the dry that'sdifficult to get. I went up into my attic the other day an it was certainlywarm enough (around 115 degrees F), but I'm not sure about the humidity--itfelt dry but who knows. What I'm considering doing instead of building acloset is hanging the rod bags up in the attic and perhaps putting a bucketof DampRid beneath them. Would that work? Any advice? --Steve from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jun 12 17:27:48 2000 e5CMRlG24610 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:23:13 -0500 Subject: Tip Top needs... Hardy boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0168_01BFD493.7CD9E900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0168_01BFD493.7CD9E900 List,Would anyone happen to have a source for a Hardy Tip top, from Who =Know's what era. The tip top I am missing appears to be NS with a clear =glass insert. If anyone thinks they may have a match for me, email me =off list and I'll try to send you an image of it so we can see if what =you have matches. I need this to complete a restoration, so PLEASE if =you have a junk box, look through it. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0168_01BFD493.7CD9E900 List, = email me off list and I'll try to send you an image of it so we can see = have a junk box, look through it. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0168_01BFD493.7CD9E900-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jun 12 18:06:05 2000 e5CN65G25432 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE045A7300E8; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:11:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Orvis braided leaders on level silk lines Darryl,I've found that it floats for several trips. I guess that depends ontemperature.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I tried the candle stub on the Orvis braided leader, but I wasn't too taken them in most of the time I just wiped them off. So, I tried beeswax. It's a lotsofter and stickier than candle wax. Beeswax works quite well, it even leavesa nice slick surface after rubbing it in a bit. The leader floats quite well. Idon't know how long the floatability will last, I guess I will find out on my nextfishing trip.Darryl from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jun 12 18:16:36 2000 e5CNGZG25624 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A0687247007C; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:21:12 -0400 "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart Darrell,I find the chart is similar to many others, it tries to compare somethingbased purely on weight to something based purely on diameter. This is akin toassuming that Michael Jordan should play for the Green Bay Packers, basedonweight. We should probably use Specific Gravity, ala, J.A.K.I use an HCF on a five weight, a GAF on a six wt., an HEH on a four weight,etc.How do you convert a Hedge taper which has a 24' front taper?Tremendous variation also in varnish weight, braid pattern, etc. Use ofsuch a chart would only lead people to conclude that either their rod is atfault, or their line, when they get a mismatch. Just a thought.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly lines one ofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it to my website.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jun 12 18:45:48 2000 e5CNjgG26085 Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:45:22 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods nobler@satx.rr.com, bh887@lafn.org, rcurry@ttlc.net,richard.nantel@videotron.ca, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! Bob,is there a Harley there with my name on it?? ;^)Shawn Pineo Bob Nunley wrote: Boy, isn't it funny how all this info comes out a couple of decades aftereveryone gets soaked in this stuff! When I was in the Air Force, wecleanedM61-A1 barrels in MEK. Geez, we practically took a bath in this stuff 3 or4 times a week. Of course, that was before it was anything dangerous.Well, considering my blatant exposure to it, and my family history ofheart disease, then I guess I can say "To hell with this diet!!!" run to theGrocery store, get a couple of pounds of strawberries, some shortcakeand acart full of whipped cream, cause I figure I'm gonna die anyways, prettysoon, now! Oh, Being of sound mine (questionable), I leave my planing formsto Harry, My scraper to Art and my beer recipe to Mike B. "To live healthy is to die healthy" ....some dead guy... Later,Bob :^)-----Original Message-----From: Art Port ; nobler@satx.rr.com ;bh887@lafn.org; rcurry@ttlc.net ;richard.nantel@videotron.ca Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, June 12, 2000 2:00 PMSubject: Re: Silk line bonanza part 4 (MEK HAZARDS)BOOOOOM!!! I can't remember where I read it, but I paid attention because myfather-in- law had a SERIOUS heart condition and was stripping paint at thetime, but I DID read that MEK was a real threat to people with potentialheart attacks in their future. I wish I could be more specific, but if youhave any heart problems, PLEASE check this out before using the junk!Art At 10:51 PM 06/11/2000 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Be really careful when you use MEK or any of the HOT solvents. Anumberofyears back there was a lady in the neighborhood who used to stripfurnitureand refinish it. One day she was cleaning stripper off a piece with MEK(laquer thinner) and she had the furnace fire up (she was doing this inherbasement) BOOOOMMM she killed herself from the explosion and hadextensiveburns all over her body. I was a fireman at this time and it was one oftheworst things I ever witnessed. GUYS BE CAREFUL WITH THESE THINGSADEQUATEVENTILATION AND EXPLOSION PROOF FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jun 12 18:52:31 2000 e5CNqUG26297 Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:52:12 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Taper Bill,thanks. I will keep that in mind. I never even noticed it before but bothKreider's book and the article only state the one dimension so I'm not surewhich dimension he is talking about.I would love any penta tapers you could provide.ShawnPineo Bill Fink wrote: Hi Shawn,As you can tell from my address I have a strong interest in pentas and thebest tapers that I developed are for a 7'3'' wt 4 and a 7'6'' wt 5. Theserods are fairly fast action to suit my fishing style and have safe stresslevels. If you are interested I will be happy to send them.When specifying penta tapers it is important to specify which of thethreerelated diameters you are dealing with. There is the measureddiameter(it'snot really a diameter) that you can mike, the inner diameter which you use I sent this back a while ago and i think the list was having problems atthat time and it never made it through so I'm re sending it. Hope itgets some responses this time. Also if anyone has any penta tapers feelfree to send those to me! TIA Hey guys,while looking through a book tonight I found an articlewhich contained a taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have beenwritten by Claude M Kreider? The taper doesn't appear to be in his bookthough.It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say what wtit is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize thetaper and be able to give us some info on the rod. The taper is on6"stations. If anyone builds it let me know how it goes. BUTT TIP0 .360 .2356 .360 .22012 .360 .20018 .340 .18024 .320 .16030 .295 .14036 .275 .12042 .250 .09548 .235 .075 Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn I sent this back a while ago and i think the list was having problems atthat time and it never made it through so I'm re sending it. Hope it getssome responses this time. Also if anyone has any penta tapers feel freeto send those to me! TIAHey guys, while looking through a book tonight I found an article which containeda taper for a Penta rod that I believe might have been written by ClaudeM Kreider? The taper doesn't appear to be in his book though.It is supposed to be a strong 5 sided rod at 8'0" It doesn't say whatwt it is for but the ferrule is a 14/64 so I'm going to guess that it is I'll post it here and maybe someone will recognize the taper and be ableto give us some info on the rod. The taper is on 6"stations. If anyonebuilds it let me know how it goes. TIP .235 .220 .200 .180 .160 .140 .120 .095 .075Hopefully this rings a bell with someone out there. Enjoy, Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 12 19:21:53 2000 e5D0LqG26751 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:23:07 -0500 "'Rodmakers \(E-mail\)'" Subject: Re: Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart Reed, weren't all the early lines from silk, based or rated by a weight perso many feet of a certain diameter ? While the larger plastic lines arelighter per diameter, isn't it the weight that's past the tip that does theloading for proper balance ? Are the plastic lines graded, lets say as a "C", for their weight/diameter,(arbitrary, or "X" amount of feet) or by the diameter it takes to equal theweight of a "C" line in silk ? What I'm getting at, is that one brand of WF-5, may weigh more than thesameline in another brand ??? This can get expensive, unless you have a largeselection of similar lines. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart Darrell,I find the chart is similar to many others, it tries to comparesomethingbased purely on weight to something based purely on diameter. This is akintoassuming that Michael Jordan should play for the Green Bay Packers, basedonweight. We should probably use Specific Gravity, ala, J.A.K.I use an HCF on a five weight, a GAF on a six wt., an HEH on a fourweight,etc.How do you convert a Hedge taper which has a 24' front taper?Tremendous variation also in varnish weight, braid pattern, etc. Useofsuch a chart would only lead people to conclude that either their rod isatfault, or their line, when they get a mismatch. Just a thought.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly lines oneofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it to mywebsite.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Jun 12 20:46:13 2000 e5D1kAG27835 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:42:36 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) RodMakers Subject: RE: Attic as a rod "closet"? Hi Steve,I'd be inclined to hang the rods in a heated drying cabinet for afew days and then store them in a pvc tube with some silica gel. Make surethe end caps seal really well. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Attic as a rod "closet"? I live in a very humid climate. As such, I'm worried about moisture creepinginto my rods over time. I have been storing my rods in the trunk of my carin their rod tubes with the caps off. I had one test rod that I stored"naked" (not inside anything) on my garage workbench. That rod now easilytakes a set when fishing, but that might be due to incorrect heat treatingduring construction rather than reentrant moisture. I'd like to store my rods in a warm dry rod closet. My plan has always beento buy a storage closet and put a space heater in the bottom of it and acouple of vent holes in the top. Anyone else done that successfully? However, warm isn't hard to acheive around here--it's the dry that'sdifficult to get. I went up into my attic the other day an it was certainlywarm enough (around 115 degrees F), but I'm not sure about the humidity--itfelt dry but who knows. What I'm considering doing instead of building acloset is hanging the rod bags up in the attic and perhaps putting a bucketof DampRid beneath them. Would that work? Any advice? --Steve from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jun 13 01:59:54 2000 e5D6xsG01518 Subject: Re: Safest Stripper - Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 6/12/00 12:11:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, darrell@rockclimbing.org writes: I believe it's Papaya - same stuff as in meat tenderizer. Just joking. It does work well. Don Burns from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jun 13 02:55:21 2000 e5D7tJG02028 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:52:49 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: Cortland silk line braiding machines Reed,I think it was you who mentioned a couple of days ago that Cortlandhad several silk line braiding machines "lying around". Do you have any be very interested if they had a "fire sale" on them.I must also congratulate you on your great web page too. Damnedfine effort !! Best regards Mike from bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com Tue Jun 13 08:36:51 2000 e5DDaoG06466 2000 06:36:46 PDT Subject: re: Attic Hi all,I just came across this and figfured I'd pass it on. Drieriteis a product made by a co. in Ohio. It eliminates moisture to-100 degrees F. The card I got in the mail shows differentcontainers with varying thicknesses of grains. Send of fax for afree catalog.W.A. Hammond Drierite Co.PO Box 460Xenia, OH 45385Phone 937-376-2927Fax 937-376-1977Of course there's no affiliation between me and them. I'venever even been to Ohio! Also, in regard to the short thread about musical instruments. My son takes sax lessons every Sat. I usually hang out at theshop and read whatever is lying around. The reeds used in windinstruments are very big business with the best cane for thispurpose being grown in France. One catalog showed the entireprocess with excellent pix and descriptions. Very interesting!regards,Joe =====Joe MulveyStoneham, MAwww.mulvey.eboard.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!http://photos.yahoo.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jun 13 09:02:18 2000 e5DE2HG07389 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AFF246FD008C; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:06:42 -0400 "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: Re: Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart boundary="------------8C18B4DB2BAEBD6A9E0AF3F4" --------------8C18B4DB2BAEBD6A9E0AF3F4 George,See below in italics, underlined.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ nobler wrote: Reed, weren't all the early lines from silk, based or rated by a weight perso many feet of a certain diameter ? Alas, no. They were only rated by diameter. And the English used a differentscale than the U.S., so an English Halford line (long one of the most popularover here) of size H was closer to an American G. Hardy used an evendifferentscale and their C would be our E. While the larger plastic lines arelighter per diameter, isn't it the weight that's past the tip that does theloading for proper balance ? Correct, however, air resistance plays a significant role in casting. Thus athin, dense line will cast much more easily than a larger diameter line of thesame weight. Are the plastic lines graded, lets say as a "C", for their weight/diameter,(arbitrary, or "X" amount of feet) or by the diameter it takes to equal theweight of a "C" line in silk ? I don't quite understand. The modern AFTMA system is based soley upon theweightof the first 30' of line, exclusive of any level line before the taper. Theyshould have, IMHO, adopted a method that gave the weight/volume of thefirst30'. But they may have sondiered that too restrictive. What I'm getting at, is that one brand of WF-5, may weigh more than thesameline in another brand ??? This can get expensive, unless you have a largeselection of similar lines. All WF5 should weigh the same amount +/- a small percentage. But, becauseonemay be more dense than another, they will not cast the same. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "reed curry" Cc: ; "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 6:14 PMSubject: Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart Darrell,I find the chart is similar to many others, it tries to comparesomethingbased purely on weight to something based purely on diameter. This isakintoassuming that Michael Jordan should play for the Green Bay Packers,basedonweight. We should probably use Specific Gravity, ala, J.A.K.I use an HCF on a five weight, a GAF on a six wt., an HEH on a fourweight,etc.How do you convert a Hedge taper which has a 24' front taper?Tremendous variation also in varnish weight, braid pattern, etc. Useofsuch a chart would only lead people to conclude that either their rod isatfault, or their line, when they get a mismatch. Just a thought.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly lines oneofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it to mywebsite.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net --------------8C18B4DB2BAEBD6A9E0AF3F4 George, --Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ nobler wrote:Reed, weren't all the early lines from silk, basedor rated by a weight perso many feet of a certain diameter ?Alas, no. They were only rated by diameter. And the English useda different scale than the U.S., so an English Halford line (long one ofthe most popular over here) of size H was closer to an American G. Hardyused an even different scale and their C would be our E.While the larger plastic lines arelighter per diameter, isn't it the weight that's past the tip thatdoes theloading for proper balance ?Correct, however, air resistance plays a significant role in casting.Thus a thin, dense line will cast much more easily than a larger diameterline of the same weight. Are the plastic lines graded, lets say as a "C", for their weight/diameter,(arbitrary, or "X" amount of feet) or by the diameter it takes to equaltheweight of a "C" line in silk ? I don't quite understand. The modern AFTMA system is based soleyupon the weight of the first 30' of line, exclusive of any level line beforethe taper. They should have, IMHO, adopted a method that gave theweight/volumeof the first 30'. But they may have sondiered that too restrictive. What I'm getting at, is that one brand of WF-5, may weigh more thanthe same have a largeselection of similar lines. All WF5 should weigh the same amount +/- a small percentage. But,because one may be more dense than another, they will not cast thesame. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "reed curry" <rcurry@ttlc.net> Cc: <richard.nantel@videotron.ca>; "'Rodmakers (E- mail)'"<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 6:14 PMSubject: Silk Fly Line AFTMA ChartDarrell, it tries to comparesomethingbased purely on weight to something based purely on diameter. Thisis akintoassuming that Michael Jordan should play for the Green Bay Packers,basedonweight. We should probably use Specific Gravity, ala, J.A.K. six wt., an HEH on a fourweight,etc. hasa 24' front taper? weight,braid pattern, etc. Useofsuch a chart would only lead people to conclude that either theirrod isatfault, or their line, when they get a mismatch. Just a thought.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly linesoneofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it tomywebsite.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net --------------8C18B4DB2BAEBD6A9E0AF3F4-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jun 13 09:14:46 2000 e5DEEjG08195 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A2E15A690106; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:19:13 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods George,Through an intermediary, some of us enquired about getting one of themachines. There was a lack of response.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ nobler wrote: I gotta' ask Reed, have you asked them about making silk lines again ? GMA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jun 13 09:32:40 2000 e5DEWdG08786 Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:32:34 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods Is there a way of sending Cortland a sort of online petition/show ofinterest from all of us? That might spur at least a limited production run?Perhaps someone with a little more computer savvy than I could answer this. Shawn Pineo reed curry wrote: George,Through an intermediary, some of us enquired about getting one of themachines. There was a lack of response.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ nobler wrote: I gotta' ask Reed, have you asked them about making silk lines again ? GMA from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jun 13 10:38:49 2000 e5DFcmG10620 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart Importance: Normal Reed, Lately, I have been asked how to determine the line weights several times,so I copied Danny T.'s post of a couple of months ago that had this chartlisted. The chart is good if someone has a unused vintage silk line that hasthe line weight listed so they can get a rough idea as to the approximateline weight... Certainly the chart can only be a STARTING POINT, but it's astart. I did put a disclaimer at the bottom of the chart so that hopefully peoplewill not take the chart as gospel. If you have a formula, I'd be happy to add it to the chart... but as youpointed out, with the wide variances in taper design, construction, weight,varnish, finish, I don't believe any one formula would be entirelyaccurate... As with plastic lines today, people have to cast the rod and line togetherand experiment in order to find what works best for the line, rod, castingstyle, etc. plus all the intangible factors... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Silk Fly Line AFTMA Chart Darrell,I find the chart is similar to many others, it tries to comparesomethingbased purely on weight to something based purely on diameter. This is akintoassuming that Michael Jordan should play for the Green Bay Packers, basedonweight. We should probably use Specific Gravity, ala, J.A.K.I use an HCF on a five weight, a GAF on a six wt., an HEH on a fourweight,etc.How do you convert a Hedge taper which has a 24' front taper?Tremendous variation also in varnish weight, braid pattern, etc. Use ofsuch a chart would only lead people to conclude that either their rod is atfault, or their line, when they get a mismatch. Just a thought.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Just finished adding the AFTMA conversion chart for silk fly lines one ofthe listers posted awhile back. I reformated it and added it to mywebsite.Here's the page, please check it out to see if I made any bungles... www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Darrellwww.vfish.net from tklein@amgen.com Tue Jun 13 11:17:40 2000 e5DGHdG12031 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: Reeds - was RE: Attic Isn't it Jack Howell who mentioned in his book that he came to rod buildingthrough reed making?---Timx11512 ----------From: Joe Mulvey[SMTP:bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 7:36 AM Subject: re: Attic Hi all,I just came across this and figfured I'd pass it on. Drieriteis a product made by a co. in Ohio. It eliminates moisture to-100 degrees F. The card I got in the mail shows differentcontainers with varying thicknesses of grains. Send of fax for afree catalog.W.A. Hammond Drierite Co.PO Box 460Xenia, OH 45385Phone 937-376-2927Fax 937-376-1977Of course there's no affiliation between me and them. I'venever even been to Ohio! Also, in regard to the short thread about musical instruments. My son takes sax lessons every Sat. I usually hang out at theshop and read whatever is lying aroun