Subject: RE: Heading to Grayling!!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFD89E.493D9BF0" Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFD89E.493D9BF0 I'm leaving Monday morning.Staying at Penrods. Olaf BorgeSilk fly lines bought and soldE6907 Monument Rock RoadFranklin Township Vernon County WisconsinMail: P.O. Box 361 Viroqua, Wisconsin 54665Email: oborge@mwt.netPhone: 608-675-3509 -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 1:11 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Heading to Grayling!!! I'm jealous... have fun all you grayrock attendees! Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 5:01 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Heading to Grayling!!! I'am leaving this morning with a couple of stops in between. See youfolks wed. Save a few for me, don't drink them all.Rich Jezioro At 07:56 PM 6/16/00, reed curry wrote: Mike,I'm on my way. See you at Spike's.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Mike Biondo wrote: Hello folks... I'll be heading up to Graying Monday morning for the RODMAKERSGathering.I will be away from email for the entire next week. Hopefully thelistwill be running without problems while I'm away. If anyone hassubscription problems, I'll be happy to deal with them upon myreturn, orCo-Listguy Jerry Ballard could probably help also. Looking forward to seeing some of you in Grayling... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy -- *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > >))):> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFD89E.493D9BF0 leaving Monday morning.Staying atPenrods. Olaf BorgeSilk fly lines bought and soldE6907= 361 Viroqua, Wisconsin 54665Email: oborge@mwt.netPhone: = LeeSent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 1:11 richjez@enteract.com; rcurry@ttlc.net; = Grayling!!! jealous... have fun all you grayrock attendees! Darrellwww.vfish.net JezioroSent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 5:01 = Grayling!!!I'am leaving this = a couple of stops in between. See you folks wed. Save a few for me, = drink them all. Rich JezioroAt 07:56 PM 6/16/00, reed = wrote: my = See you at Spike's.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/Mike = subscription problems, I'll be happy to deal with them upon my = = = = ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFD89E.493D9BF0-- from lblove@cableone.net Sat Jun 17 20:58:45 2000 e5I1wiG06098 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44);Sat, 17 Jun 2000 18:58:44 -0700 Subject: moving, offline boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD89E.0C4BF480" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD89E.0C4BF480 tight linesBrad ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD89E.0C4BF480 = Will hear from you all again in a week, = tight linesBrad ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFD89E.0C4BF480-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jun 17 21:55:00 2000 e5I2sxG06692 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: A to Z Index of Patent Classes - Class D04C - IPC Classification - PIPERS Patent Resources boundary="------------BD7AA50CE35268D7EA768A08" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- BD7AA50CE35268D7EA768A08 Perhaps this will be of use..... http://www.piperpat.co.nz/ipc/d04c.html Shawn Pineo --------------BD7AA50CE35268D7EA768A08 name="d04c.html" filename="d04c.html"Content-Base: "http://www.piperpat.co.nz/ipc/d04c.html"Content-Location: "http://www.piperpat.co.nz/ipc/d04c.html" A to Z Index of Patent Classes - Class D04C - IPC Classification -PIPERS Patent Resources PIPERS Home |IPC Home |IPC Classes | Notice Board | PIPERS | IPC PATENT CLASSIFICATIONPIPERS Virtual Intellectual Property LibrarySECTION D - TEXTILES; PAPERBRAIDING OR MANUFACTURE OF LACE, INCLUDING BOBBIN-NET ORCARBONISED LACE; BRAIDING MACHINES; BRAID; LACED04C D04C 1 /00 Braid or lace, e.g. pillow-lace; Processes for the manufacture thereof1 /02 made from particular materials1 /04 Carbonised or like lace1 /06 Braid or lace serving particularpurposes1 /08 Tulle fabrics1 /10 Pattern tulle fabrics1 /12 Cords, lines, ortowsD04C 3 /00 Braiding or lacing machines3 /02 with spool carriers guided by trackplates or by bobbin heads exclusively3 /04 with spool carriers guided andreciprocating in non-endless paths3 /06 with spool carriers moving alwaysin the same direction in endless paths3 /08 with means for superimposingthreads or braids3 /10 with means for forming edgeloops, ears, or eyes3 /12 with means for introducing corethreads3 /14 Spool carriers3 /16 for horizontal spools3 /18 for vertical spools3 /20 Arrangement of bobbin heads andguides or track plates in the machine3 /22 Guides or track plates (with 3/24)3 /24 Devices for controlling spoolcarriers to obtain patterns, e.g. devices on guides or track plates3 /26 by stopping bobbin heads3 /28 by stopping only the spoolcarrier3 /30 by controlling switches of guidesor track plates3 /32 Pattern input3 /34 Beater or beat-up mechanisms3 /36 Frames3 /38 Driving-gear; Starting or stoppingmechanisms3 /40 for making tubular braids bycirculating strand supplies around braiding centre at equal distances3 /42 with means for forming sheds bycontrolling guides for individual threads3 /44 with means for forming sheds bysubsequently diverting various threads using the same guiding means3 /46 with thread carriers supported onrolls3 /48 AuxiliarydevicesD04C 5 /00 Twist or bobbin-net lace-making machines5 /02 Net looms for tulle fabrics5 /04 Net or lace curtain machines5 /06 Machines for making twist- lacefabrics 5 /10 Bobbin-carriage guides; Drives forswinging bobbin carriages5 /12 Drives for advancing bobbincarriages5 /14 Pattern input5 /16 Warp thread feeding or guidingdevices5 /18 Guide bars; Guiding meanstherefor; Pattern input by control thereof5 /20 Jacks or pickers; Pattern input bycontrol thereof5 /22 Delivery devices5 /24 Driving-gear; Starting or stoppingmechanisms5 /26 AuxiliarydevicesD04C 7 /00 Tools or apparatus for braiding or lacing by hand Return to thePIPERS Home Page PIPERS Home |IPC Home |IPC Classes | Notice Board | PIPERS | This page was lastmodified: ")document.write (modied)document.write ("")//- -> --------------BD7AA50CE35268D7EA768A08-- from EM11EM22@aol.com Sun Jun 18 02:01:45 2000 e5I71iG08731 Subject: RE: Heading to Grayling!!! One of you guys should take lots of photos from Grayling, and put them onthe list!!!!! from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Jun 18 10:10:04 2000 e5IFA4G12718 LAA01640 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 11:09:02 Subject: Penta Tapers To the List,Due to the overwhelming number of requests (there were 3 or 4) thedimensions of two of my best penta tapers follow:Rod #1: 7'3'' one piece (no ferrule) for a wt 4: station 5:.079, 10:.101,15:.118, 20:.133, 25:.146, 30:.160, 35:.172, 40:.185, 45:.197, 50:.209,55:.222, 60:.235, 65:.248, 70:.261, 75:.274 Rod #2: 7'6'', 2-piece, size 14 ferrule for a wt 5: station 5:.082,10:.106, 15:.124, 20:.139, 25:.153, 30:.162, 35:.180, 40:.193, 45:.206,50:.221, 55:.236, 60:.251, 65:.266, 70:.280, 75:.295, 80:.310 Note that these dimensions are inner diameters which are the numbersusedto set your planing forms (divide by 2). The dimensions you get when youmike the rod will be different due to penta geometry. If someone wishes to build rod #1 with a ferrule get back to me off listand I will run a compatible taper for you. Len Histand's software is useful from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jun 18 10:56:52 2000 e5IFuqG13231 Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:56:48 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Penta Tapers Bill,thanks allot for the tapers! I would probably build #1 with a ferrule.Where can you get Len's program??Good to see I wasn't the only list member who didn't get to Grayling!Thanks,Shawn Pineo Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Due to the overwhelming number of requests (there were 3 or 4) thedimensions of two of my best penta tapers follow:Rod #1: 7'3'' one piece (no ferrule) for a wt 4: station 5:.079, 10:.101,15:.118, 20:.133, 25:.146, 30:.160, 35:.172, 40:.185, 45:.197, 50:.209,55:.222, 60:.235, 65:.248, 70:.261, 75:.274 Rod #2: 7'6'', 2-piece, size 14 ferrule for a wt 5: station 5:.082,10:.106, 15:.124, 20:.139, 25:.153, 30:.162, 35:.180, 40:.193, 45:.206,50:.221, 55:.236, 60:.251, 65:.266, 70:.280, 75:.295, 80:.310 Note that these dimensions are inner diameters which are the numbersusedto set your planing forms (divide by 2). The dimensions you get when youmike the rod will be different due to penta geometry. If someone wishes to build rod #1 with a ferrule get back to me off listand I will run a compatible taper for you. Len Histand's software is useful from Canerods@aol.com Sun Jun 18 20:49:35 2000 e5J1nYG18713 Subject: Man-O-War Varnish in a can All, I recently bought a couple of cans of Man-O-War in sparay cans. Just tried it out on an 8'6" Heddon #10 that I'm refinishing. I'm impressed. I can put down a light layer or a heavy layer without creating and runs. I still need to put the final varnish layer on the rod, but it looks more like a factory varnish job (thinner) than my dip tube results. Which might reflect more on my techniques than on the two methods. Or as they say - results may vary. Don Burns from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Jun 18 22:55:23 2000 e5J3tMG20292 Subject: An Excellent Start Well it is now just a bit before midnight on sunday - and the and Rodmakers At GrayRock 00 has begun - there are about 15 folks herealready - Including our Aussie guest Tony Young - who is an excellent cook by the way - the event tonight was casting to the rising cat - Moses was the target of the attention as Reed unveiled a as new 6' 6" Eagle Claw 'parabolic' fiberglass - hey - it's sunday OK - which proved to be an extremely accurate casting tool - the line could be laid between the cat's ears on 4 out of 8 casts at about 30' - Oh a few folks did make it to the river to catch a couple fish and yes there will be pictures and reports of the infinate wisdoms shared ___________________________________________________Email sent using WMIS Internet (http://www.wmis.net/)Premium Internet Services from mep@mint.net Mon Jun 19 04:03:42 2000 e5J93fG23110 Mon, 19 Jun 2000 05:03:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Man-O-War Varnish in a can You can pick up a rig at your local auto parts store (try one that caters tothelocal garages and sells auto finishes) that will let you spray anything. It'scalled a Preval sprayer, no ozone damaging hydrocarbons in it. Designed fortouchup in auto finishes. Comes with a 6 ounce glass reservoir. Gives aprofessionalquality spray. Ideally you need a spray thinner ( dries faster than say,mineralspirits). Available with most marine varnishes. A little tricky until you get theknack. You can buy another spray can when it runs out ( it will spray 16ounces).Works great. Cheap too! The usual ventilation precautions apply whensprayingvarnish. Mike Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, I recently bought a couple of cans of Man-O-War in sparay cans. Just trieditout on an 8'6" Heddon #10 that I'm refinishing. I'm impressed. I can put down a light layer or a heavy layer without creating and runs. I still need to put the final varnish layer on the rod, but it looks morelike a factory varnish job (thinner) than my dip tube results. Which might reflect more on my techniques than on the two methods. Or as they say - results may vary. Don Burns from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Jun 19 06:05:19 2000 e5JB5IG24083 HAA01658; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Rodmakers Subject: Re: Hock Group Order - Da Planes,Da Planes are in! ... thank you Tattoo... Darrell,As smooth as this went, I'm thinking you should do a group order on ChevySuburbans!dws. "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Hello! I'm pleased to say the Hock Blades came in right on schedule! A verypleasant surprise! Here's the list of orders, I'm trying to pack them all today and get them inthe mail today so hopefully you'll get them around next Tuesday. I have tosay, you guys were all a pleasure to work with, I'm glad it worked out forall of us. Let me know how you like the Hock Blades and if you are able totell the difference. If the group buys keep being this smooth, I'll keepworking on get us more good deals... Well, what do we want to buy next...Please exclude the Lie-Nielsens and bamboo... anything else? Maybe I'll doan REC order, their products are excellent... Check your blades to be sure you got the correct blades, any problems,please email me. Ciao! Darrellwww.vfish.net ORDERS================== Art Port2 - BL162 George Aldrich1 - BL1384 - BL162 David Munizza1 - BL162 David Smith2 - BL162 Greg Taliani2 BL162 Lowell Davis2 - BL162 Rick Crenshaw1 - BL1382 - BL162 Paul Goodwin1 - BL1381 - BL162 Don Burns1 - BL162 from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 19 10:07:06 2000 e5JF75G29536 Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:07:02 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Man-O-War Varnish in a can Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, I recently bought a couple of cans of Man-O-War in sparay cans. Just trieditout on an 8'6" Heddon #10 that I'm refinishing. Don, and others,Does anyone know where I might buy a gallon, ore even a couple ofquarts,of Man O' War through the mail? I've tried every local haunt within 100 miles,and no luck.Thanks, Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 19 10:07:11 2000 e5JF7AG29553 Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:07:02 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: An Excellent Start Wayne, Tony, and others, Glad to hear that a few fish were caught this year. I seem to rememberthat last year no one caught a single fish! :-) Just kidding!Wish I were there, but I'm tied down tight with the business of ministry.Rick C. and I may coerce our relative SWMBO's into allowing us to make thetrip next year. You know, hold up the reputation of us "Suthen boys." Keepthe reports coming, and tell everyone hello. Harry cattanac@wmis.net wrote: Well it is now just a bit before midnight on sunday - and the andRodmakers At GrayRock 00 has begun - there are about 15 folks herealready- Including our Aussie guest Tony Young - who is an excellent cook by theway - the event tonight was casting to the rising cat - Moses was thetarget of the attention as Reed unveiled a as new 6' 6" Eagle Claw'parabolic' fiberglass - hey - it's sunday OK - which proved to be anextremely accurate casting tool - the line could be laid between the cat'sears on 4 out of 8 casts at about 30' - Oh a few folks did make it to theriver to catch a couple fish and yes there will be pictures and reports ofthe infinate wisdoms shared___________________________________________________Email sent using WMIS Internet (http://www.wmis.net/)Premium Internet Services --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jun 19 10:45:29 2000 e5JFjSG01359 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Man-O-War Varnish in a can Importance: Normal A Google web search came up with this site... http://www.flounderbay.com/page2.htm I'd don't know if they stock the old stuff or what... give them a try andlet me know... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Man-O-War Varnish in a can Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, I recently bought a couple of cans of Man-O-War in sparay cans. Just trieditout on an 8'6" Heddon #10 that I'm refinishing. Don, and others,Does anyone know where I might buy a gallon, ore even a couple ofquarts,of Man O' War through the mail? I've tried every local haunt within 100miles,and no luck.Thanks, Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jun 19 11:16:03 2000 e5JGG2G02836 Subject: Re: Man-O-War Varnish in a can Try Varspar's web site - they are the maker of McCloskey products (Man-O- War) and they should be able to provide you with local outlets. Most hardware chains in S. California sell Man-O-War. Don from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jun 19 11:27:12 2000 e5JGRBG03415 Subject: Re: Man-O-War Varnish in a can Try: http://www.o-geepaint.com/ArchiCoats/ArchiCoats.html from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Mon Jun 19 11:35:45 2000 e5JGZjG03803 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 12:35:46 EDT Subject: Nodeless Splices What method to create nodeless splices do you recommend to a beginner ifhe does not want to buy a set of nodeless splice forms to start.Jim T from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jun 19 14:08:28 2000 e5JJ8RG08680 Subject: balance boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0631_01BFDA00.DAC40D80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0631_01BFDA00.DAC40D80 This weekend another list member (Dave Price) and myself were fishing =and we were both using the new rods we've built. Daves was a 7' 3pc 4wt =while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the fish weren't =biting (which was while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His rod felt =like it weighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods balanced and =mine with a 3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while his with an =orvis CFO (I think it was the 123) balanced closer to the stripping = So my setup which probably weighs more seemed to be much lighter. I =could imagine that a balanced rod would feel lighter but I didn't think =the difference could feel so dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0631_01BFDA00.DAC40D80 This weekend another list member(Dave = myself were fishing and we were both using the new rods we've built. = 7' 3pc 4wt while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the fish = biting (which was while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His rod felt = weighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods balanced and mine = Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while his with an orvis CFO (I = was the 123) balanced closer to the stripping guide than the grip. = So my setup which probably weighsmore = much lighter. I could imagine that a balanced rod would feel lighter but = didn't think the difference could feel so dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0631_01BFDA00.DAC40D80-- from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Mon Jun 19 14:23:44 2000 e5JJNhG09256 Subject: Another virus going around... This info is provided only for your information.Claude Subject: VBS/Stages Virus Discovered at NASAFrom: IT Notice Sender: owner-headquarters@lists.hq.nasa.gov This message is being transmitted to all NASA HQ employees.Point of Contact: IntelliCenter, (202) 358-HELP (4357)------------------------------------- ---------------------------- VBS/Stages Virus Discovered at NASA A virus called VBS/Stages is in circulation in the NASAenvironment. VBS/Stages.A is a worm that has recently beendiscovered "in-the-wild". Taking advantage of a flaw in theMicrosoft operating system, which causes .SHS extensions to behidden even after the user enables extension viewing inMicrosoft Explorer, the worm appears to be an innocent text file.VBS/Stages.A also takes advantage of a vulnerability found insome antivirus products which ignore any files in or being sentto the Recycle Bin. (Command AntiVirus fully protects theRecycle Bin and thus is not victim to this maneuver). VBS/Stages.A is received via e-mail with one of the followingsubject lines: FW: Life StagesFW: FunnyFW: JokesFW: Text If the attached file, Life_Stages.txt.shs is executed, the wormdeletes Regedit.exe and modifies the registry to point toRegedit.VXD from the Recycle Bin. It also creates several fileson any local or mapped drives available to the user. If you receive any of these messages, DELETE THE MESSAGE FROMYOUR INBOX. If you have accidentally opened the attachment,please contact the IntelliCenter, 358-HELP for assistance. -----------------------------------------------------------------This "IT Notice" is being transmitted by InfoCom,Code CI-3, HQ Information Technology & CommunicationsDivision. For more information on InfoCom services, call(202) 358-2299 or (202) 358-4817, or visit the InfoCom webpage at http://www.hq.nasa.gov/hq/infocom.htm from dati@selway.umt.edu Mon Jun 19 14:42:24 2000 e5JJgNG10254 13:42:27 -0600 Subject: taper Hello all, Can anyone recommend a taper for a rod around 6' - 7' long for use with a4 - 5 wt line. I would like it to cast tight loops around 30' on small to medium size streams yet I would like it to be able to shootfarther if needed. I am really debating between the Paul Young Midge,Paul Young Perfectionist and the garrison 201e. If anyone has experiencewith these rods, please let me know what you think of them. I have alsoheard good reports of the Sir D. Yet, I don't have the taper for that rodto compare it to the others. Thanks so much for your helpDarin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jun 19 15:00:29 2000 e5JK0TG11126 Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:00:25 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: taper Darin,although the Perfectionist is a 7'6" rod it, is one of my favorites!Can't go wrong with the Midge or Sir D! Payne 97 ,Leonard 38H might be ofinterest. Perhaps one of AJ's tapers as well! Decisions ,decisions! So manyrods so little time! I'm sure you wouldn't be happy with any of these! Shawn Darin J Law wrote: Hello all, Can anyone recommend a taper for a rod around 6' - 7' long for use with a4 - 5 wt line. I would like it to cast tight loops around 30'on small to medium size streams yet I would like it to be able to shootfarther if needed. I am really debating between the Paul Young Midge,Paul Young Perfectionist and the garrison 201e. If anyone has experiencewith these rods, please let me know what you think of them. I have alsoheard good reports of the Sir D. Yet, I don't have the taper for that rodto compare it to the others. Thanks so much for your helpDarin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jun 19 15:23:30 2000 e5JKNUG12044 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:18:50 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Nodeless Splices Jim,First, don't buy the scarfing blocks. If you have a table saw, or afriend with one, you can make them out of either aluminum, oak or maple andhave a great set.As far as method, the most accepted method, and the only one I haveeverused, is to scarf the peices together so that the seam runs diagonallyacross the enamel. Good luck,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Nodeless Splices What method to create nodeless splices do you recommend to a beginner ifhe does not want to buy a set of nodeless splice forms to start.Jim T from FlyfishT@aol.com Mon Jun 19 15:36:27 2000 e5JKaQG12865; Subject: Re: taper RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Hi Darin,I just made the SIR D its a quick stick. It will throw tight loops and extend a 14 ft leader and tippet. Tom from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 19 17:11:30 2000 e5JMBTG16346 Subject: Re: taper It is hard to beat the Sir "D". My son in law used the Sir "D" I made him forthe first time today. I was amazed at the perfect loops he was throwing.. Hehas only fished with a fly rod one time, that was last year . Yes, he didcatch three trout.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: Hi Darin,I just made the SIR D its a quick stick. It will throw tight loops andextend a 14 ft leader and tippet. Tom from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jun 19 17:43:20 2000 e5JMhKG17090 (204.186.33.5) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: taper Hi Darin, It's hard to beat the PY Midge. I have recently miked an FEThomas Special 61/2' 2 pc. #4/5 line and will post the taper if you oranyone is interested. Neat rod though it may be more of a #5 than a #4.Marty Hello all, Can anyone recommend a taper for a rod around 6' - 7' long for use with a4 - 5 wt line. I would like it to cast tight loops around 30'on small to medium size streams yet I would like it to be able to shootfarther if needed. I am really debating between the Paul Young Midge,Paul Young Perfectionist and the garrison 201e. If anyone has experiencewith these rods, please let me know what you think of them. I have alsoheard good reports of the Sir D. Yet, I don't have the taper for that rodto compare it to the others. Thanks so much for your helpDarin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from grandriverangler@sprint.ca Mon Jun 19 18:52:10 2000 e5JNq9G18371 Subject: finishing reel seats boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFDA27.43D6E600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFDA27.43D6E600 Can anyone suggest a finish for reel seats that I am making myself. = Thanks in advance. Mark Babiy ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFDA27.43D6E600 Can anyone suggest a finish for reel seats that I am= Thanks in advance. Mark Babiy ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFDA27.43D6E600-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Jun 19 19:07:26 2000 e5K07PG18676 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: balance "'Rodmakers Listserv'" BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ILNNDupKWZ2duXuyYbEJzQ)"Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ILNNDupKWZ2duXuyYbEJzQ) Paul, that Bougle is throwing off the action of your rod. Please send it tome immediately and I'll send you a lighter reel that will better balanceyour rod. I have an old Martin sitting around somewhere. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 PM Subject: balance This weekend another list member (Dave Price) and myself were fishing andwe were both using the new rods we've built. Daves was a 7' 3pc 4wt whilemine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the fish weren't biting (whichwas while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His rod felt like it weighedabout a pound. We looked at where the rods balanced and mine with a 3"Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while his with an orvis CFO (I thinkit was the 123) balanced closer to the stripping guide than the grip. So my setup which probably weighs more seemed to be much lighter. I couldimagine that a balanced rod would feel lighter but I didn't think thedifference could feel so dramatic. Paul--Boundary_(ID_ILNNDupKWZ2duXuyYbEJzQ) that Bougle is throwing off the action of your rod. Please send it to me = immediately and I'll send you a lighter reel that will better balance = I have an old Martin sitting around somewhere. Richard GoodwinSent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 ListservSubject: balanceThis weekend another list member = myself were fishing and we were both using the new rods we've built. = a 7' 3pc 4wt while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the = weren't biting (which was while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His = like it weighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods balanced = with a 3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while his with an = (I think it was the 123) balanced closer to the stripping guide than = So my setup which probably weighs = be much lighter. I could imagine that a balanced rod would feel = didn't think the difference could feel so dramatic. Paul --Boundary_(ID_ILNNDupKWZ2duXuyYbEJzQ)-- from oakmere@carol.net Mon Jun 19 19:07:58 2000 e5K07wG18783 Subject: RE: URAC Life Hi Folks: Question for adhesive experts. I know URAC has a fixed life when left atroom temperature. Can URAC adhesive life be extended by keeping itrefrigerated? If so, what temperature is best to keep the material and howlong will it extend the materials life as a function of temperature? I amassuming that freezing is a no-no. Any input appreciated. Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PAfwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from cathcreek@hotmail.com Mon Jun 19 19:41:25 2000 e5K0fOG19424 Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:41:21 PDT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: taper The Sir D is very close to the PHY Driggs from my understanding. Have not cast a Sir D, but the Driggs is an awesome taper. Either would be a good bet in my opinion. Robert Clarke From: FlyfishT@aol.com RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: taperDate: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:35:38 EDT Hi Darin,I just made the SIR D its a quick stick. It will throw tight loops andextend a 14 ft leader and tippet. Tom ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Jun 19 20:03:42 2000 e5K13gG19826 Subject: Re: taper I've had great success with the Garrison 201E. The thing is, that's all people have been requesting from me and there are so many other tapers I'm itching to try. With my output being so small, it's kind of a bind...The Sir D makes a fine rod as does the Payne 98 which leans close to a 5 wt. both of which I've made. Rob Hoffhines from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 19 20:14:31 2000 e5K1EUG20094 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:00:43 -0500 Subject: Re: measure You have it correct for real accuracy Ralph. I use calipers for "eye ball"measurements, but when I'm cutting, the mic comes out ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: measure After 30 years of rodmaking, I finally bought a dial caliper. I havealways used a micrometer. After having tried the caliper, I find that Istill prefer my mic. The caliper seems ok for large and roughapproximations, but I seriously question its accuracy. That is if I amusing it correctly, and I may not be. I seem to see that the majorityare using calipers. Can anyone convince me they are a better instrument Ralph from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jun 19 20:15:34 2000 e5K1FYG20200 (204.186.33.71) Organization: ProLog Subject: 61/2" FE Thomas Special #4/5 Line A guy up in Roscoe NY told me he had this rod so I figured I'd go afishin' in the Beaverkill. It turns out the guy owns a stretch of wateron the Upper Beaverkill River so I brought a rod (Paul YoungPerfectionist Taper) and my mike. I have never seen a 61/2' Thomas butthe guy I went with (ex. Leonard Rod Co. employee) said he had seen 3before. Caught the 2 biggest Browns on a dry I have ever caught (5 & 6lbs) but that is another story. Gorgeous rod with full intermediates.It's a fast action rod that the owner claims is more of a 5 wt. There isa big step in the dimension at the ferrule station (step down ferrule).If you use a super Z style you will have to do some adjusting. Anyway,Here is the taper. All measurements are an average of 3 readings and.004 has been taken off for varnish. FE Thomas Special 6' 6" #4/5 2pc.TIP BUTT00 .063 .19805 .074 .21310 .098 .22315 .119 .22620 .138 .24625 .154 .26230 .165 .29235 .169 ? under grip.181 at ferruleGuide Spacing (rod has 6 snakes + 1 stripper, I will add 1 more snakewhen I make it) from tip top5 1/8"10 1/2"17 1/8"24 3/4"32 1/4" from tip of female ferrule2 1/2"10 7/8" stripper5 1/4" cork grip3 1/4" cap & ring seat from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jun 19 20:17:53 2000 e5K1HqG20370 (204.186.33.71) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: taper Who's taper is the Sir D anyway. Marty I've had great success with the Garrison 201E. The thing is, that's allpeople have been requesting from me and there are so many other tapersI'mitching to try. With my output being so small, it's kind of a bind...The Sir D makes a fine rod as does the Payne 98 which leans close to a 5wt.both of which I've made. Rob Hoffhines from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jun 19 20:42:26 2000 e5K1gPG20917 Subject: Re: URAC Life Refrigeration will extend the life up to 2 years or more. I use Cascoresin, a canadian product similar to Urac, and the company technician toldme that the resin life doubles for every 10 degree drop in storagetemperature. For example, the resin has a shelf life of about 3 months atroom temperature. Drop it to 60 degrees and its good for 6 months, 50degrees a year, 40 degrees 2 years, etc. If the resin develops lumps,throw it away. As long as its smooth and creamy its safe to use. ----------From: Frank W. Paul Subject: RE: URAC LifeDate: Monday, June 19, 2000 8:07 PM Hi Folks: Question for adhesive experts. I know URAC has a fixed life when left atroom temperature. Can URAC adhesive life be extended by keeping itrefrigerated? If so, what temperature is best to keep the material andhowlong will it extend the materials life as a function of temperature? I amassuming that freezing is a no-no. Any input appreciated. Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PAfwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from tfbinn@mindspring.com Mon Jun 19 20:55:18 2000 e5K1tHG21232 Subject: Re: finishing reel seats boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFDA20.6AE0F6C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFDA20.6AE0F6C0 Mark,Try Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil gun stock finish. It goes on easy (use a =finger to rub it on), dries quickly, (recoat in 2-4 hrs) and gives a =nice finish without a lot of build up. 4-5 coats works well for me on =most woods.Winston Binney ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFDA20.6AE0F6C0 =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00M=00a=00r=00k=00,=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00T=00r=00y=00 ==00B=00i=00r=00c=00h=00w=00o=00o=00d=00=00C=00a=00s=00e=00y=00 ==00T=00r=00u=00-=00O=00i=00l=00 =00g=00u=00n=00=00s=00t=00o=00c=00k=00 ==00f=00i=00n=00i=00s=00h=00.=00 =00I=00t=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00g=00o=00e=00s=00 =00o=00n=00 =00e=00a=00s=00y=00=00(=00u=00s=00e=00 ==00a=00 =00f=00i=00n=00g=00e=00r=00 =00t=00o=00=00r=00u=00b=00 ==00i=00t=00 =00o=00n=00)=00,=00 =00d=00r=00i=00e=00s=00 ==00q=00u=00i=00c=00k=00l=00y=00,=00=00(=00r=00e=00c=00o=00a=00t=00 ==00i=00n=00 =002=00-=004=00 =00h=00r=00s=00)=00=00a=00n=00d=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00g=00i=00v=00e=00s=00 =00a=00 =00n=00i=00c=00e=00 ==00f=00i=00n=00i=00s=00h=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00o=00u=00t=00=00a=00 ==00l=00o=00t=00 =00o=00f=00 =00b=00u=00i=00l=00d=00 ==00u=00p=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =004=00-=005=00 ==00c=00o=00a=00t=00s=00 =00w=00o=00r=00k=00s=00=00w=00e=00l=00l=00 ==00f=00o=00r=00 =00m=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00o=00n=00 =00m=00o=00s=00t=00 ==00w=00o=00o=00d=00s=00.=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00W=00i=00n=00s=00t=00o=00n=00 ==00B=00i=00n=00n=00e=00y=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00------ =_NextPart_000_0005_01BFDA20.6AE0F6C0-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jun 20 00:13:14 2000 e5K5DAG23788 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:12:10 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: RE: Silk lines Peter,Apologies for not replying sooner. I've been away from my terminal for afew days. My contact with the braiding machine plans has unearthed themandis going to copy and send them in the next couple of days. The anticipationis nearly killing me but I'll try to survive long enough to pass on someuseful information when it turns up. Mike ps. Re Greyrock: Tony Young cooking? What a concept !! -----Original Message----- Subject: Silk lines MikeHave been offline a few days, so have missed the drift of the silk linestuff until tonight, and note with interest the thing about Cortland & theirmanufacturing gear.I'm going to run this flag up to get the comments. Sort of lateral thinkingdept - Question1 - Does the manufacture of a silk line differ in anysubstantial way from the knitting of a silk sock?Except the obvious, of course, size and length - and please, no jokes aboutfeet!If there is no essential difference, then possibly small knitting factoriesmight be interested in one-off orders in their slow periods. I don't knowabout North America, but there are quite a few of these about in Australia,including one at least in this town.Question 2 - if you can knit a tube (sock) on a domestic knitting machine,can you knit a fly line?Anybody know about that?Peter from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jun 20 00:34:55 2000 e5K5YrG24255 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:33:20 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Ernie Harrison,Rodmakers Subject: RE: Silk lines - Patent Searches Hi Douglas,I got a card with some sample silk threads attached from aplace here in West Oz called The Thread Studio. I don't know what their webaddress is but I could find out if you like. One of the threads on the cardis of the sort used to knit ties etc. so I assume it would be fine enough touse in fly lines. It comes on 3000 metre spools and I think the cost isaround the US$20 mark. If there are sixteen threads in a line and the lineis 25 yards long then one spool should have enough thread to make seven oreight lines. As cane is in rodmaking, silk is not the major expense in linemaking. Best regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Silk lines - Patent Searches I am just curious. What sort of silk thread does one use to braid a lineand how many yards of thread are there in a yard of say E line? What sortof money are we talking here and what sources are available? -Doug ____________(____________|===========================o/ 0 \ / | \__/ \ / Douglas Easton | \ / |\____/ Dpeaston@wzrd.com | |* from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jun 20 00:43:51 2000 e5K5hpG24557 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: balance ,"'Rodmakers Listserv'" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDA3F.97E18F80"Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDA3F.97E18F80 How about a South Bend automatic? Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: RE: balance Paul, that Bougle is throwing off the action of your rod. Please send itto me immediately and I'll send you a lighter reel that will better balanceyour rod. I have an old Martin sitting around somewhere. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 PM Subject: balance This weekend another list member (Dave Price) and myself were fishingand we were both using the new rods we've built. Daves was a 7' 3pc 4wtwhile mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the fish weren't biting(which was while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His rod felt like itweighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods balanced and mine with a3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while his with an orvis CFO (Ithink it was the 123) balanced closer to the stripping guide than the grip. So my setup which probably weighs more seemed to be much lighter. Icould imagine that a balanced rod would feel lighter but I didn't think thedifference could feel so dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDA3F.97E18F80 about a South Bend automatic? Darrell = balancePaul, that Bougle is throwing off the = rod. Please send it to me immediately and I'll send you a lighter reel = somewhere. Richard GoodwinSent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 Rodmakers ListservSubject:balanceThis weekend another list member = and myself were fishing and we were both using the new rods we've = Daves was a 7' 3pc 4wt while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point = fish weren't biting (which was while the sun was out) we swapped = rod felt like it weighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods = and mine with a 3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while his = orvis CFO (I think it was the 123) balanced closer to the stripping = than the grip. So my setup which probably weighs = to be much lighter. I could imagine that a balanced rod would feel = but I didn't think the difference could feel so =dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDA3F.97E18F80-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Jun 20 03:56:47 2000 e5K8ujG26666 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: taper Darin, The taper You`re asking for is PHY The Midge Its the rod (with DT4) i take with me on all my fishing these days. I`m onlyfishing small- to medium streams. The Perfectionist is perfect forrivers, mine is better with #5..... regardsdanny Can anyone recommend a taper for a rod around 6' - 7' long for use with a4 - 5 wt line. I would like it to cast tight loops around 30'on small to medium size streams yet I would like it to be able to shootfarther if needed. I am really debating between the Paul Young Midge,Paul Young Perfectionist and the garrison 201e. If anyone has experiencewith these rods, please let me know what you think of them. I have alsoheard good reports of the Sir D. Yet, I don't have the taper for that rodto compare it to the others. Thanks so much for your helpDarin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Jun 20 04:10:41 2000 e5K9AdG26971 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: 61/2" FE Thomas Special #4/5 Line Marty, Sounds like an interesting rod, did You cast the rod, if so, how did itperformance? regardsdanny from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 20 05:47:15 2000 e5KAlEG28055 (204.186.33.36) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: 61/2" FE Thomas Special #4/5 Line Hi Danny, No I didn't cast it but did wiggle it. The owner told meit's similar to the PYM but unlike the midge (his words) will load withonly a few feet of line out. I do feel that the Midge casts better at30'-50' than at 10-20'. That's with a #4 , the Midge was actually made Marty, Sounds like an interesting rod, did You cast the rod, if so, how did itperformance? regardsdanny from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Jun 20 08:34:58 2000 e5KDYvG01059 JAA24586; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Subject: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought Iwould throw out (up) the technique I used to glue up a very straight(with one exception, see below) first rod. (I used Gorilla PU glue.) Isimply took a piece of straight 1" angle iron and set the freshly glued,bound section in the "V," sandwiched between two pieces of wax paper.I was careful to get the twists out first. For the butt and one tip, Iused a 1"x1"x48" piece of hard-core foam insulation to put a bit ofpressure down onto the section to push it flat. I put pressure on thefoam using spring clamps all along the length. On that tip, there is aslight bend where ( from the impression on the foam) it is apparent thetip wasn't perfectly in the corner of the "V". angle iron on top, it allowed me to shine a light down between the twopieces to visualize the section to ensure straightness and placement,and used a thin, stainless ruler to gently push the section into thecorner along it's length. I then used the spring clamps to applypressure. I also did NOT use the wax paper. This tip is as straight asan arrow.The problem with the first tip, I think, given the resultingimpression in the foam, was that I didn't first crease the wax paper,but (stupidly) simply allowed to find it's own spot in the "V" when thepressure was applied. On the second tip, I didn't use the wax paper andcould visualize the piece along it's entire length. It was alsoapparent that you need to align the top piece of angle iron with the tipof the rod so that there is no space between the ends to achieve equalpressure along the length of the section. Otherwise, if the tip of therod, for example, is several inches down the iron, you get littlepressure on the tip and it wasn't held fully down.It takes only a few seconds to set it in, visualize the placementand ensure the straightness. Just an idea, I welcome comments,dws. from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Jun 20 08:47:31 2000 e5KDlTG01474 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: 61/2" FE Thomas Special #4/5 Line Marty, I use my Midge on all my fishing. I do only fish in small streams, but Ithink the rod perform wellwith only a couple of meters out (DT4). But I'm not a very experiencecaster.....I think most of the PHY tapers on the list tend to be one line size heavierthan posted, but myMidge is a true #4. I`m currently making one in #3.......... regardsdanny marty wrote: Hi Danny, No I didn't cast it but did wiggle it. The owner told meit's similar to the PYM but unlike the midge (his words) will load withonly a few feet of line out. I do feel that the Midge casts better at30'-50' than at 10-20'. That's with a #4 , the Midge was actually made Marty, Sounds like an interesting rod, did You cast the rod, if so, how did itperformance? regardsdanny from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Jun 20 08:59:21 2000 e5KDxKG01989 Subject: RE: finishing reel seats e5KDxLG01991 Just off the top of my head, since I've never made or finished a reelseat, I would think a film finish like spar or poly would be prone toscratching from contact with the reel foot. What you want is apenetrating finish that leaves very little or no film. This is onereason why stabilized inserts are so good. If I was making my own, I'dprobably soak it for several days in a natural oil finish like tung orboiled linseed oil. -----Original Message-----From: Mark and Tracey [SMTP:grandriverangler@sprint.ca]Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: finishing reel seats Can anyone suggest a finish for reel seats that I am making myself. Should I use the same spar that I use on my rods, or the urethane? Thanks in advance. Mark Babiy from cathcreek@hotmail.com Tue Jun 20 08:59:32 2000 e5KDxVG02056 Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:59:28 PDT Subject: Re: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections Sound like a great idea. You might also try wacking the freshly glued rods on a table. I tried it on the last two rods and that worked amazingly. Not my idea. Big thanks to whoever on the list suggested it (I have forgotten). Robert Clarke From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Subject: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sectionsDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:39:33 -0400 Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought Iwould throw out (up) the technique I used to glue up a very straight(with one exception, see below) first rod. (I used Gorilla PU glue.) Isimply took a piece of straight 1" angle iron and set the freshly glued,bound section in the "V," sandwiched between two pieces of wax paper.I was careful to get the twists out first. For the butt and one tip, Iused a 1"x1"x48" piece of hard-core foam insulation to put a bit ofpressure down onto the section to push it flat. I put pressure on thefoam using spring clamps all along the length. On that tip, there is aslight bend where ( from the impression on the foam) it is apparent thetip wasn't perfectly in the corner of the "V". angle iron on top, it allowed me to shine a light down between the twopieces to visualize the section to ensure straightness and placement,and used a thin, stainless ruler to gently push the section into thecorner along it's length. I then used the spring clamps to applypressure. I also did NOT use the wax paper. This tip is as straight asan arrow.The problem with the first tip, I think, given the resultingimpression in the foam, was that I didn't first crease the wax paper,but (stupidly) simply allowed to find it's own spot in the "V" when thepressure was applied. On the second tip, I didn't use the wax paper andcould visualize the piece along it's entire length. It was alsoapparent that you need to align the top piece of angle iron with the tipof the rod so that there is no space between the ends to achieve equalpressure along the length of the section. Otherwise, if the tip of therod, for example, is several inches down the iron, you get littlepressure on the tip and it wasn't held fully down.It takes only a few seconds to set it in, visualize the placementand ensure the straightness. Just an idea, I welcome comments,dws. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 20 09:49:02 2000 e5KEmvG04314 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:34:57 -0500 Subject: Re: 61/2" FE Thomas Special #4/5 Line My Midge was built just after PHY announced it, in 1954. It loads better atunder 40' with a #5, than with a #4. With a #4, it will shoot quite far, butI don't like to push it ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: 61/2" FE Thomas Special #4/5 Line Marty, I use my Midge on all my fishing. I do only fish in small streams, but Ithink the rod perform wellwith only a couple of meters out (DT4). But I'm not a very experiencecaster.....I think most of the PHY tapers on the list tend to be one line sizeheavierthan posted, but myMidge is a true #4. I`m currently making one in #3.......... regardsdanny marty wrote: Hi Danny, No I didn't cast it but did wiggle it. The owner told meit's similar to the PYM but unlike the midge (his words) will load withonly a few feet of line out. I do feel that the Midge casts better at30'-50' than at 10-20'. That's with a #4 , the Midge was actually made Marty, Sounds like an interesting rod, did You cast the rod, if so, how diditperformance? regardsdanny from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jun 20 11:18:37 2000 e5KGIaG07294 Subject: Re: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections I use a 60" length of hardwood with a 60* groove in it. The groove was madewith a 60* router bit on a router table. I lay the blank in the groove withthe high side in the "V" and use four shot bags to cover it full length.The shot bags conform to the taper. Sand bags would do just as well.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought Iwould throw out (up) the technique I used to glue up a very straight(with one exception, see below) first rod. (I used Gorilla PU glue.) Isimply took a piece of straight 1" angle iron and set the freshly glued,bound section in the "V," sandwiched between two pieces of wax paper.I was careful to get the twists out first. For the butt and one tip, Iused a 1"x1"x48" piece of hard-core foam insulation to put a bit ofpressure down onto the section to push it flat. I put pressure on thefoam using spring clamps all along the length. On that tip, there is aslight bend where ( from the impression on the foam) it is apparent thetip wasn't perfectly in the corner of the "V". angle iron on top, it allowed me to shine a light down between the twopieces to visualize the section to ensure straightness and placement,and used a thin, stainless ruler to gently push the section into thecorner along it's length. I then used the spring clamps to applypressure. I also did NOT use the wax paper. This tip is as straight asan arrow.The problem with the first tip, I think, given the resultingimpression in the foam, was that I didn't first crease the wax paper,but (stupidly) simply allowed to find it's own spot in the "V" when thepressure was applied. On the second tip, I didn't use the wax paper andcould visualize the piece along it's entire length. It was alsoapparent that you need to align the top piece of angle iron with the tipof the rod so that there is no space between the ends to achieve equalpressure along the length of the section. Otherwise, if the tip of therod, for example, is several inches down the iron, you get littlepressure on the tip and it wasn't held fully down.It takes only a few seconds to set it in, visualize the placementand ensure the straightness. Just an idea, I welcome comments,dws. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Jun 20 12:11:58 2000 e5KHBuG09076 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id FAA22217; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 05:11:34 +1200 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections Tony , I was considering doing something similar to this but was uncertain whetherthere may be a problem with the glue attaching to the hardwood. What do you do tho prevent this or is it not a problem ? . Ian At 11:18 AM 20/06/00 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:I use a 60" length of hardwood with a 60* groove in it. The groove wasmadewith a 60* router bit on a router table. I lay the blank in the groove withthe high side in the "V" and use four shot bags to cover it full length.The shot bags conform to the taper. Sand bags would do just as well.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought I deleted from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jun 20 12:52:23 2000 e5KHqMG10312 Subject: Re: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections This would work if you have a linear taper. However, if the taper is notlinear (ie. the change in diameter over a given length is not constant alongthe entire length) then the rod will not be straight viewed from all sides. If you want to clamp a section in a form to straighten it you would need aform that was the inverse of the depth of the planning forms for it to bestraight. However, now you would have to be concerned with the binding cord.Where the rod is clamped into the form is there one, two or no layers ofstring. This would change the apparent diameter of the rod. I am able to get virtually straight sections out of my binder and I haven'tspent more than 5 minutes to straighten any of the sections I've made sofar(that would be 10 sections). I'm in the process of rebuilding my binder toincorporate the mods I've made to my garrison binder. I'll put pictures upon the web site when I'm done with it. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought Iwould throw out (up) the technique I used to glue up a very straight(with one exception, see below) first rod. (I used Gorilla PU glue.) Isimply took a piece of straight 1" angle iron and set the freshly glued,bound section in the "V," sandwiched between two pieces of wax paper.I was careful to get the twists out first. For the butt and one tip, Iused a 1"x1"x48" piece of hard-core foam insulation to put a bit ofpressure down onto the section to push it flat. I put pressure on thefoam using spring clamps all along the length. On that tip, there is aslight bend where ( from the impression on the foam) it is apparent thetip wasn't perfectly in the corner of the "V". angle iron on top, it allowed me to shine a light down between the twopieces to visualize the section to ensure straightness and placement,and used a thin, stainless ruler to gently push the section into thecorner along it's length. I then used the spring clamps to applypressure. I also did NOT use the wax paper. This tip is as straight asan arrow.The problem with the first tip, I think, given the resultingimpression in the foam, was that I didn't first crease the wax paper,but (stupidly) simply allowed to find it's own spot in the "V" when thepressure was applied. On the second tip, I didn't use the wax paper andcould visualize the piece along it's entire length. It was alsoapparent that you need to align the top piece of angle iron with the tipof the rod so that there is no space between the ends to achieve equalpressure along the length of the section. Otherwise, if the tip of therod, for example, is several inches down the iron, you get littlepressure on the tip and it wasn't held fully down.It takes only a few seconds to set it in, visualize the placementand ensure the straightness. Just an idea, I welcome comments,dws. from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jun 20 13:01:39 2000 e5KI1cG10767 Subject: Re: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections Tan,I wipe the blank down to remove as much of the glue as I can from theoutside. Ihave had no problems with it sticking to the hardwood. I have done fifteenrodsthis way. I would suggest two boards. One with a shallow groove for tips andonewith a deeper groove for butts. You do want to watch about the tip sectionwhereyou have a build up of binding cord at the tip. This will raise the tip and put abend in it. Hang the end with the binding cord knot past the end of the boardsothat the tip will lay flat in the groove.At the present time I am using my planing form for the tip sections till I getashallow groove board made. I don't take credit for this idea, I got the ideafromthe list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com iank wrote: Tony , I was considering doing something similar to this but was uncertain whetherthere may be a problem with the glue attaching to the hardwood. What do you do tho prevent this or is it not a problem ? . Ian At 11:18 AM 20/06/00 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:I use a 60" length of hardwood with a 60* groove in it. The groove wasmadewith a 60* router bit on a router table. I lay the blank in the groove withthe high side in the "V" and use four shot bags to cover it full length.The shot bags conform to the taper. Sand bags would do just as well.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought I deleted from dati@selway.umt.edu Tue Jun 20 14:32:15 2000 e5KJWEG14139 13:32:18 -0600 Subject: Thanks for taper help Thanks to all who responded to my taper inquiry. I was given lots of goodadvice and ideas that I hadn't thought of prior. I think I'll just haveto build them all. Thanks again,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from rvenneri@ulster.net Tue Jun 20 14:34:15 2000 e5KJYFG14321 Organization: Venneri's Subject: Re: finishing reel seats James wrote: Just off the top of my head, since I've never made or finished a reelseat, I would think a film finish like spar or poly would be prone toscratching from contact with the reel foot. What you want is apenetrating finish that leaves very little or no film. This is onereason why stabilized inserts are so good. If I was making my own, I'dprobably soak it for several days in a natural oil finish like tung orboiled linseed oil. -----Original Message-----From: Mark and Tracey [SMTP:grandriverangler@sprint.ca]Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: finishing reel seats Can anyone suggest a finish for reel seats that I am making myself.Should I use the same spar that I use on my rods, or the urethane? Thanks in advance. Mark BabiyThe way I finish my reel seats is to spray them with a acrylic spray, acouple of coats, then when dry I use a buffing wheel to remove all theresidue that has not penatrated the wood. This gives a nice finish thatwhen scratched can be buffed back to new. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Jun 20 14:39:18 2000 e5KJdGG14594 Subject: RE: finishing reel seats I've got one of Bob's seats, and I consider it the exact prototype ofeverything you'd want in a finish for a reel seat. Thanks for sharingthat, Bob. -----Original Message-----From: Robert Venneri [SMTP:rvenneri@ulster.net]Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 1:38 PM Cc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: Re: finishing reel seats James wrote: Just off the top of my head, since I've never made or finished areelseat, I would think a film finish like spar or poly would be pronetoscratching from contact with the reel foot. What you want is apenetrating finish that leaves very little or no film. This is onereason why stabilized inserts are so good. If I was making my own,I'dprobably soak it for several days in a natural oil finish like tungorboiled linseed oil. -----Original Message-----From: Mark and Tracey [SMTP:grandriverangler@sprint.ca]Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: finishing reel seats Can anyone suggest a finish for reel seats that I am makingmyself.Should I use the same spar that I use on my rods, or the urethane? Thanks in advance. Mark BabiyThe way I finish my reel seats is to spray them with a acrylic spray,acouple of coats, then when dry I use a buffing wheel to remove all the>residue that has not penatrated the wood. This gives a nice finishthatwhen scratched can be buffed back to new. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from bhoy@inmind.com Tue Jun 20 15:32:08 2000 e5KKW7G16391 Subject: Tips for wetflies/nymphs My next rod will be based on a PHY Perfectionist. I am debating whether to beef up one of the tips to use for nymphs. Studying other maker's dimensions (Like the Para 15 wet/dry tips) I've noticed that the increase in dimension isn't even as you go down the tip. That is, the tip is about 10 percent oversize, the second station about 6 or 7 percent oversize and the rest about two or three percent. Except for the stations right next to the ferrule which go back up to about 8 percent oversize. So here are my questions: Why not just increase by set amount or at each station? I assume there are reasons, which leads to the next question: What are the fundamental criteria to use when resizing a tip for a different weight fly? That is, what am I trying to avoid as well as accomplish with redimensioning a tip? Is it the same as designing for a heavier weight line? Will beefing up the tip screw up the action the rod, especially the parabolic aspects? Should I even bother since parabolics have heavy tips to begin with? If I really hate it, can I strip the section and shave it back to a dry fly weight? I know the real answer is to try it, but I'd like to have a better feel for the territory before I commit. Bill Hoy from dpeaston@wzrd.com Tue Jun 20 16:13:45 2000 e5KLDjG17818 ,"'Rodmakers Listserv'" Subject: RE: balance At 07:25 PM 6/19/2000 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Arial0000,0000,ffffPaul,that Bougle is throwing off the action of your rod. Please send it to meimmediately and I'll send you a lighter reel that will better balanceyour rod. I have an old Martin sitting around somewhere. 0000,0000,8080 Arial0000,0000,ffffRichard 0000,0000,8080Tahoma-----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Goodwin Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 PM Subject: balance ArialThisweekend another list member (Dave Price) and myself were fishing and wewere both using the new rods we've built. Daves was a 7' 3pc 4wt whilemine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the fish weren't biting(which was while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His rod felt like itweighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods balanced and mine witha 3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while his with an orvis CFO(I think it was the 123) balanced closer to the stripping guide than thegrip. ArialSo my setup which probablyweighs more seemed to be much lighter. I could imagine that a balancedrod would feel lighter but I didn't think the difference could feel sodramatic. ArialPaul 0000,0000,8080 0000,0000,8080 Doug Easton Tonawanda, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 20 16:54:59 2000 e5KLswG19223 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:40:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Tips for wetflies/nymphs I can only comment that many of PHY's designs have funny "places" in thetapers ! Only he knew why ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tips for wetflies/nymphs My next rod will be based on a PHY Perfectionist. I am debating whether tobeef up one of the tips to use for nymphs. Studying other maker'sdimensions (Like the Para 15 wet/dry tips) I've noticed that the increasein dimension isn't even as you go down the tip. That is, the tip is about10 percent oversize, the second station about 6 or 7 percent oversize andthe rest about two or three percent. Except for the stations right next tothe ferrule which go back up to about 8 percent oversize. So here are my questions: Why not just increase by set amount or at each station? I assume thereare reasons, which leads to the next question: What are the fundamental criteria to use when resizing a tip for adifferent weight fly? That is, what am I trying to avoid as well asaccomplish with redimensioning a tip? Is it the same as designing for aheavier weight line? Will beefing up the tip screw up the action the rod, especially theparabolic aspects? Should I even bother since parabolics have heavy tipstobegin with? If I really hate it, can I strip the section and shave it backto a dry fly weight? I know the real answer is to try it, but I'd like to have a better feelforthe territory before I commit. Bill Hoy from bh887@lafn.org Tue Jun 20 19:16:06 2000 e5L0G5G22229 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) "'Paul Goodwin'" ,"'Rodmakers Listserv'" Subject: Re: balance boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFDADB.A76B8E00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFDADB.A76B8E00 Hey! I'll swap you my Martin Automatic. It is heavy enough to take out =the kinks in your back...or put some in if you don't have any. Even up, = Lee Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:42 PMSubject: RE: balance How about a South Bend automatic? Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: RE: balance Paul, that Bougle is throwing off the action of your rod. Please =send it to me immediately and I'll send you a lighter reel that will =better balance your rod. I have an old Martin sitting around somewhere. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 PM Subject: balance This weekend another list member (Dave Price) and myself were =fishing and we were both using the new rods we've built. Daves was a 7' =3pc 4wt while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the fish =weren't biting (which was while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His =rod felt like it weighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods =balanced and mine with a 3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while =his with an orvis CFO (I think it was the 123) balanced closer to the = So my setup which probably weighs more seemed to be much lighter. =I could imagine that a balanced rod would feel lighter but I didn't =think the difference could feel so dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFDADB.A76B8E00 take out the kinks in your back...or put some in if you don't have = Lee ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee Goodwin' ; 'Rodmakers Listserv' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 = PMSubject: RE: balance about a South Bend automatic? Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= Behalf Of Richard NantelSent: Monday, June 19, 2000 = balancePaul, that Bougle is throwing off the = your rod. Please send it to me immediately and I'll send you a = that will better balance your rod. I have an old Martin sitting = somewhere. Richard GoodwinSent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 = Rodmakers ListservSubject:balanceThis weekend another list member= and myself were fishing and we were both using the new rods we've = Daves was a 7' 3pc 4wt while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one = the fish weren't biting (which was while the sun was out) we = His rod felt like it weighed about a pound. We looked at where the = balanced and mine with a 3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip = his with an orvis CFO (I think it was the 123) balanced closer to = stripping guide than the grip. So my setup which probably weighs= to be much lighter. I could imagine that a balanced rod would feel = but I didn't think the difference could feel so =dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFDADB.A76B8E00-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jun 20 19:20:23 2000 e5L0KLG22369 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:17:47 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) flytyr@southshore.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections Hi Ian,I tried something similar and covered the rod blank with clearplastic. Worked fine. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections Tony , I was considering doing something similar to this but was uncertain whetherthere may be a problem with the glue attaching to the hardwood. What do you do tho prevent this or is it not a problem ? . Ian At 11:18 AM 20/06/00 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:I use a 60" length of hardwood with a 60* groove in it. The groove wasmadewith a 60* router bit on a router table. I lay the blank in the groove withthe high side in the "V" and use four shot bags to cover it full length.The shot bags conform to the taper. Sand bags would do just as well.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought I deleted from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jun 20 19:28:00 2000 e5L0RxG22584 RAA01703; ,"'Rodmakers Listserv'" Subject: Re: balance boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFDAF5.C2529D20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFDAF5.C2529D20 Ooops, Excuse me. I thought I was posting an interesting observation to =the Rodmakers list server. It seems that the message got re-routed (some =cisco router skipped a groove) and it got sent to the wanna-be comedians = Normally I'ld point to my fishing hat but since this isn't a video =conference I'll post a scan on my web page. http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/bm.jpg Paul Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 8:19 PMSubject: Re: balance Hey! I'll swap you my Martin Automatic. It is heavy enough to take =out the kinks in your back...or put some in if you don't have any. Even =up, for darn near anything. What say? Lee Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:42 PMSubject: RE: balance How about a South Bend automatic? Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: RE: balance Paul, that Bougle is throwing off the action of your rod. Please =send it to me immediately and I'll send you a lighter reel that will =better balance your rod. I have an old Martin sitting around somewhere. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 PM Subject: balance This weekend another list member (Dave Price) and myself were =fishing and we were both using the new rods we've built. Daves was a 7' =3pc 4wt while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At one point when the fish =weren't biting (which was while the sun was out) we swapped rods. His =rod felt like it weighed about a pound. We looked at where the rods =balanced and mine with a 3" Bougle balanced just ahead of the grip while =his with an orvis CFO (I think it was the 123) balanced closer to the = So my setup which probably weighs more seemed to be much =lighter. I could imagine that a balanced rod would feel lighter but I =didn't think the difference could feel so dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFDAF5.C2529D20 Ooops, Excuse me. I thought I was posting an = observation to the Rodmakers list server. It seems that the message re-routed (some cisco router skipped a groove) and it got sent to the = comedians list server. Normally I'ld point to my fishing hat but since this = video conference I'll post a scan on my web page. http://www.paul.goodwinweb=.com/bm.jpg Paul ----- Original Message ----- Lee =Freeman Goodwin' ; 'Rodmakers Listserv' Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: balance take out the kinks in your back...or put some in if you don't have = Lee ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee Goodwin' ; 'Rodmakers Listserv' Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 = PMSubject: RE: balance automatic? Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= Behalf Of Richard NantelSent: Monday, June 19, 2000= RE: balancePaul, that Bougle is throwing off the = your rod. Please send it to me immediately and I'll send you a = reel that will better balance your rod. I have an old Martin = around somewhere. Richard GoodwinSent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:13 = Rodmakers ListservSubject: =balanceThis weekend another list = Price) and myself were fishing and we were both using the new = built. Daves was a 7' 3pc 4wt while mine was a 6' 9" 2pc 3wt. At = point when the fish weren't biting (which was while the sun was = swapped rods. His rod felt like it weighed about a pound. We = where the rods balanced and mine with a 3" Bougle balanced just = the grip while his with an orvis CFO (I think it was the 123) = closer to the stripping guide than the grip. So my setup which probably = seemed to be much lighter. I could imagine that a balanced rod = dramatic. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFDAF5.C2529D20-- from wiroway@home.com Tue Jun 20 20:08:02 2000 e5L182G23318 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP 0700 Subject: Remove boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDAFB.88E022A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDAFB.88E022A0 Please remove me from the list. Thanks Winston Waymer ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDAFB.88E022A0 Please remove me= Thanks Winston Waymer ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFDAFB.88E022A0-- from wiroway@home.com Tue Jun 20 21:39:19 2000 e5L2dJG24618 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP 0700 Subject: Remove boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFDB08.4942D040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFDB08.4942D040 Please remove me from your list. Thanks Winston ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFDB08.4942D040 Please remove me from your list.Thanks = Winston ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFDB08.4942D040-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jun 20 22:51:07 2000 e5L3p6G25570 UAA27317 Subject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFDB12.235795A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFDB12.235795A0 I have a bundle of cane sitting at a friends loading dock and to prepare = left over. from what I thought wasn't enough to build a 2/1 rod I got 27 =strips. It was easy to keep the split in the middle of the strip. I was =able to et strips down to .150" easily. This will save a lot of planing. PAul Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 12:54 PMSubject: Re: splitting cane for fun and profit? Paul,Believe me, it gets better with time. The last culm I split =(rough beveled the strips out of it yesterday... well actually well into =the morning this morning), I split the butt end for butt strips and got =24 strips, the upper end of the culm I got 32 strips from. I had one =bad (as far as dimension) strip from the tip bundle and 2 bad strips = from the butt bundle. Thinking back 8 or 10 years... yeah, I threw a = My splitting method is a bit different than most. I start the =splits with a froe, then split the strips out with my hands only after I =get the split started. Works good for me, and I can split strips down =to widths that are so narrow you can't plane them and still keep the =width on them consistent (I think Harry, M-D and Randall Gregory saw me =do that at the Sowbug Roundup), but don't get discouraged. It took the =splitting of a lot of culms to get to that point and after you get a =good number of rods under your belt, you'll be able to split much more = Bob-----Original Message-----From: Paul Goodwin Date: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: splitting cane for fun and profit? After I finished planing the cane for my first rod I found myself =standing in about another rods (at least) worth of cane shavings. I =managed to split strips that were close to the size I needed for the =butt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips and ended = Is this a common occurance or is it something that improves with = Are there and techniques that work better than others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and would like not to generate a =mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFDB12.235795A0 I have a bundle of cane sitting at a friends loading = to prepare for splitting it I thought I'ld try Bob's method on part of a = had left over. from what I thought wasn't enough to build a 2/1 rod I = strips. It was easy to keep the split in the middle of the strip. I was = et strips down to .150" easily. This will save a lot of =planing. PAul ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Goodwin ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: splitting cane for = profit? Paul, it = yesterday... well actually well into the morning this morning), I = butt end for butt strips and got 24 strips, the upper end of the culm = = plane them and still keep the width on them consistent (I think Harry, = point and after you get a good number of rods under your belt, you'll = Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: splitting = fun and profit? After I finished planing the cane = rod I found myself standing in about another rods (at least) worth = shavings. I managed to split strips that were close to the size I = the butt section but couldn't get strips thin enough for the tips = up with a lot of scrap. Is this a common occurance or is it = that improves with time? Are there and techniques that work= others? I just ordered a bundle of cane and = not to generate a mountain of shavings. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFDB12.235795A0-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jun 21 00:48:42 2000 e5L5mbG27516 22:54:50 PDT Subject: Re: Remove Hi Winston, Here are the directions for signing off. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu To signoff from the list, email to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu with thefollowing request: signoff RODMAKERS or unsubscribe RODMAKERS - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Subject: Remove Please remove me from your list. Thanks Winston from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Jun 21 05:13:30 2000 e5LADDG00317 Subject: Bob Milardo Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFDBBC.561DEE80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFDBBC.561DEE80 BobMy system here is not all it should be. I lose things. You're not =supposed to be able to do that with a computer, are you?Was it you who said a couple of months ago that you were coming to =Australia?If so, the answer to your question is that I live in Tasmania - (where =all the good fishing is to be found!) and if you are in this neck* of =the woods, I should be glad to see you.No fishing at the moment, though, as the season is closed. You can still =drink beer though.Peter*Down here in Oz, they actually tend to use another anatomical term to =describe us. Quite unfairly! ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFDBBC.561DEE80 BobMy system here is not all it should be. = you?Was it you who said a couple of months= were coming to Australia?If so, the answer to your question is = in Tasmania - (where all the good fishing is to be found!) and if you = this neck* of the woods, I should be glad to see you.No fishing at the moment, though, as = closed. You can still drink beer though.Peter*Down here in Oz, they actually tend to= anatomical term to describe us. Quite =unfairly! ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFDBBC.561DEE80-- from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Jun 21 07:18:02 2000 e5LCI1G01922 Subject: NS FYI,I just received an order of Nickle Silver from Busby Metals.http://www.busbymetals.com/rod.htmThey sell larger sizes (7/8" dia.) by the foot. Two feet delivered wasabout $60. I know this isn't cheap but it's the best price I've found on apurchase of less than 12'. They were also very pleasent and prompt.Best regards,Gary H. from Davidhray1@aol.com Wed Jun 21 10:30:40 2000 e5LFUdG07073 Subject: Other Cane I have often wondered and have often heard others ask about using different kinds of cane. While I was in Mississippi I found some large local cane. It was the same size as the tonkin cane that I buy but the nodes were not as long. I was by a local expert rod builder that it might work OK in a small taper. I decided to build two rods out of the cane one a Sir D converted to a 2 wt and Bob Nunley's 6' 9" two weight. I cast the rod Bob made in the Arkansas meeting last year and I build a similar Sir D in tonkin cane. I must say that the Mississippi cane although as large as thick as tonkin does not have the power fibers to make a good rod. The Sir D in Tonkin is a strong powerful 2 wt but the Mississippi cane rod is a wimpy one weight. The same is true for Bob's taper. When I cast his rod it has a back bone with a 2 weight but in Mississippi cane it has little power with a 1 wt line. Both of my rods are fishable but only at short distances. I cannot speak for other cane but I decided that if I am going to spend the time to build a rod and get one that I can trust I will use tonkin cane. David H. Ray from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Jun 21 10:41:57 2000 e5LFfuG07536 Subject: Apology to Mr.Gillespie To Mr. Peter Gillespie,This morning I sent a message that I thought might be of interest tosomeon the list about where I found and purchased Nickle Silver. Apparently Ioffended your sensiblities. I would now like to apologize to you for mytransgression and vow to never again send "COMMERCIAL e- mails". Even if Ihave no commerical connection to the company what-so-ever or if it may beof interest to someone other than yourself.Just Damn, Gary H. At 09:29 AM 6/21/00 -0400, peter gillespie wrote:hi gary, By sending me email again you agree to my terms for unsolicited commercial email reception and storage listed below: download fee...................... $10 U.S. per message.storage fee ...................... $5 U.S. / day (or portion thereof) per messageopen message fee.............. $20 U.S. /openingdelete message fee........... $10 U.S. /messageattachment fee..................$50 U.S. each (for obvious reasons unsolicited attachments must be immediately deleted (trashed) so there is no separate fee for deleting these and under no circumstances will they be opened) your messages will be filtered into a separate mail box for storage upon arrival. to delete previous messages include "please delete previous stored messages" in the subject line of your email (No charge for these.) you will be billed monthly at this email address and instructed on payment at that time. thank you for your business, peter gillespie p.s. these terms will apply to all email from or about busbymetals.com so you might want to inform them. from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Jun 21 10:50:52 2000 e5LFopG07857 Subject: RE: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Don't apologize, Gary. The information you posted was of interest here,and was typical of other posts I've seen on the list. In addition, afterreading several discussions regarding sources of NS tubing, there can beno doubt that your post was appropriate. Perhaps Mr. Gillespie shouldremove himself from the list if he is unwilling to receive email. I'dhate to see him start sending bills to the list server or coordinator. -----Original Message-----From: Heidt [SMTP:destinycon@mindspring.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 9:53 AM Subject: Apology to Mr.Gillespie To Mr. Peter Gillespie,This morning I sent a message that I thought might be ofinterest to someon the list about where I found and purchased Nickle Silver.Apparently Ioffended your sensiblities. I would now like to apologize to you formytransgression and vow to never again send "COMMERCIAL e-mails". Evenif Ihave no commerical connection to the company what-so-ever or if it maybeof interest to someone other than yourself.Just Damn, Gary H. At 09:29 AM 6/21/00 -0400, peter gillespie wrote:hi gary, By sending me email again you agree to my terms for unsolicited commercial email reception and storage listed below: download fee...................... $10 U.S. per message.storage fee ...................... $5 U.S. / day (or portion thereof) per messageopen message fee.............. $20 U.S. /openingdelete message fee........... $10 U.S. /messageattachment fee..................$50 U.S. each (for obvious reasons unsolicited attachments must be immediately deleted (trashed) so there is no separate fee for deleting these and under no circumstances will they be opened) your messages will be filtered into a separate mail box for storage upon arrival. to delete previous messages include "please delete previous stored messages" in the subject line of your email (No charge for these.) you will be billed monthly at this email address and instructed on payment at that time. thank you for your business, peter gillespie p.s. these terms will apply to all email from or about busbymetals.com so you might want to inform them. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Jun 21 11:27:11 2000 e5LGRBG08995 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie I saved the information away and was glad to have it. Oh, you can send me money too. Don Burns from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jun 21 11:39:42 2000 e5LGdfG09616 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie boundary="------------0D7DE5CB70A69B348419C15D" --------------0D7DE5CB70A69B348419C15D GaryForget the apology. Jerry Foster has addressed this issue before andmessages such as yours are not commercial messages. They are valid andappreciated. Gillespie has an index finger to delete messages and if heshould ever attept to carry out his threat I can only pity the poor guy. --------------0D7DE5CB70A69B348419C15D Gary They messages and if he should ever attept to carry out his threat I can onlypity the poor guy. --------------0D7DE5CB70A69B348419C15D-- from if6were9@bellsouth.net Wed Jun 21 12:25:25 2000 e5LHPOG10801 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie GaryThanks for the info, we can never have too many sources of supply for thematerial weneed, especially if that source is willing to cater to the small quantity buyer. As whathis response was rooted in. Thanks again for the info. Pat from yves@hwy97.net Wed Jun 21 12:25:42 2000 e5LHPgG10875 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.2.0) with SMTP id ;Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:25:53 -0700 Subject: Re: a new technique for gluing STRAIGHT sections DWS: This sounds like a great idea - I plan to try it on the next rod.Presumably aluminum angle would work as well? Thanks, Dave (Ph.D.) At 09:39 AM 6/20/00 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Gang,With the caveat that I am new to bamboo rod building, I thought Iwould throw out (up) the technique I used to glue up a very straight(with one exception, see below) first rod. (I used Gorilla PU glue.) Isimply took a piece of straight 1" angle iron and set the freshly glued,bound section in the "V," sandwiched between two pieces of wax paper.I was careful to get the twists out first. For the butt and one tip, Iused a 1"x1"x48" piece of hard-core foam insulation to put a bit ofpressure down onto the section to push it flat. I put pressure on thefoam using spring clamps all along the length. On that tip, there is aslight bend where ( from the impression on the foam) it is apparent thetip wasn't perfectly in the corner of the "V". angle iron on top, it allowed me to shine a light down between the twopieces to visualize the section to ensure straightness and placement,and used a thin, stainless ruler to gently push the section into thecorner along it's length. I then used the spring clamps to applypressure. I also did NOT use the wax paper. This tip is as straight asan arrow.The problem with the first tip, I think, given the resultingimpression in the foam, was that I didn't first crease the wax paper,but (stupidly) simply allowed to find it's own spot in the "V" when thepressure was applied. On the second tip, I didn't use the wax paper andcould visualize the piece along it's entire length. It was alsoapparent that you need to align the top piece of angle iron with the tipof the rod so that there is no space between the ends to achieve equalpressure along the length of the section. Otherwise, if the tip of therod, for example, is several inches down the iron, you get littlepressure on the tip and it wasn't held fully down.It takes only a few seconds to set it in, visualize the placementand ensure the straightness. Just an idea, I welcome comments,dws. from guille32@tutopia.com Wed Jun 21 12:40:51 2000 e5LHeoG11357 c1mailgw2.prontomail.com (NPlex 4.5.049) 2000 10:40:58 -0700 10:40:32 -0700 Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:40:48 +0000 Subject: RE: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Perhaps Mr. Gillespie should read this again : COMMERCIALISM It is strongly encouraged that listmembers openly discuss suppliers of products, and their experiences with dealing with these suppliers. If you know where a particular product can be obtain, or the suitability of a particular product to rodmaking, again you are encourage to share your insights with the list. This should be considered one of the majorbenefits of this list. Thanks Gary from tklein@amgen.com Wed Jun 21 12:52:28 2000 e5LHqRG11640 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Apology to Mr.Gillespie e5LHqSG11641 It might be best to lay off Mr. Gillespie for a while and give him a chanceto reply. Many people I know set their e-mail programs to automatically reply tomessages that have spamlike characteristics. It's certainly possible thatthis was simply an automated reply and that no harm was intended.--- Tim ----------From: Guillermo Magarios[SMTP:guille32@tutopia.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: RE: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Perhaps Mr. Gillespie should read this again : COMMERCIALISM It is strongly encouraged that listmembers openly discuss suppliers of products, and their experiences with dealing with these suppliers. If you know where a particular product can be obtain, or the suitability of a particular product to rodmaking, again you are encourage to share your insights with the list. This should be considered one of the majorbenefits of this list. Thanks Gary from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jun 21 13:13:56 2000 e5LIDuG12211 Subject: Mr.Gillespie cry us a frickin river I for one was glad to see this post. If Dizzy Gillespie doesn't like a post do as I do HIT DELETE otherwise he can cry us a frickin river. There was nothing wrong with your post.BRET from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Jun 21 16:06:38 2000 e5LL6bG17133 OAA05337 Subject: Hallelujah, I'm a bum! Finagled my way loose - headed for Grayrock tomorrow morningearly, if but only for a day and a half. I guess I'm not quite yet afull time Trout Bum like those other ne'er-do-wells ;-) ............butI'm workin' on it hard as I can! YEA! Really looking forward to putting faces with names. regards to all - I'm headed NORTH! mac from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jun 21 16:13:46 2000 e5LLDkG17404 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:09:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie I thought it was funny! Then again, that may just be that sick rednecksense of humor! *S*Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Apology to Mr.Gillespie It might be best to lay off Mr. Gillespie for a while and give him a chanceto reply. Many people I know set their e-mail programs to automatically reply tomessages that have spamlike characteristics. It's certainly possible thatthis was simply an automated reply and that no harm was intended.--- Tim ----------From: Guillermo Magarios[SMTP:guille32@tutopia.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: RE: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Perhaps Mr. Gillespie should read this again : COMMERCIALISM It is strongly encouraged that listmembers openly discuss suppliers ofproducts, and their experiences with dealing with these suppliers. Ifyou know where a particular product can be obtain, or the suitabilityof a particular product to rodmaking, again you are encourage to shareyour insights with the list. This should be considered one of the majorbenefits of this list. Thanks Gary from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jun 21 16:24:08 2000 e5LLO7G17768 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:19:22 -0500 Subject: quad rod type="multipart/alternative";boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_02ED_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02ED_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_02EE_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560" ------=_NextPart_001_02EE_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560 To all who helped me figure out this quad rod I have, a BIG thanks! I =was relatively sure it was an Edwards by what most of you said, but =found out this morning for sure. I put a coat of (secret formula LOL) =on it and there was a faint "lightness" on the rod. Guess what? It was =the outline of lettering... Edwards Quadrate on one flat (terrible =handwriting) and "#" something, can't read the first number, last is =zero, on the opposite flat. I have the rod ready to go back together, = Also, thanks to all those who helped me out with advice on the =ferrules. I have a new found respect for the few of you that make quad =rods and square the barrells of the ferrules. After hours of annealing, =hammering and polishing, I don't ever want to do another one. I'll =stick with my "six sticks" and leave the quads to those with more =patience! Later,Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_02EE_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560 To all who helped me figure out this quad rod I have, a BIG = was relatively sure it was an Edwards by what most of you said, but = handwriting) and "#" something, can't read the first number, = annealing, hammering and polishing, I don't ever want to do another = I'll stick with my "six sticks" and leave the quads to those = patience! Later,Bob = Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm= ------=_NextPart_001_02EE_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560-- ------=_NextPart_000_02ED_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560 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------=_NextPart_000_02ED_01BFDB9C.FAD1D560-- from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jun 21 16:25:41 2000 e5LLPeG17886 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:20:59 -0500 Subject: quad rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0303_01BFDB9D.3783DBC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0303_01BFDB9D.3783DBC0 Sorry, sent the below message with my stationary and signature attached. =I know some of you can't receive the msg with that stationary on it, so =here is the resend. To all who helped me figure out this quad rod I have, a BIG thanks! I =was relatively sure it was an Edwards by what most of you said, but =found out this morning for sure. I put a coat of (secret formula LOL) =on it and there was a faint "lightness" on the rod. Guess what? It was =the outline of lettering... Edwards Quadrate on one flat (terrible =handwriting) and "#" something, can't read the first number, last is =zero, on the opposite flat. I have the rod ready to go back together, = Also, thanks to all those who helped me out with advice on the =ferrules. I have a new found respect for the few of you that make quad =rods and square the barrells of the ferrules. After hours of annealing, =hammering and polishing, I don't ever want to do another one. I'll =stick with my "six sticks" and leave the quads to those with more =patience! Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0303_01BFDB9D.3783DBC0 Sorry, sent the below message with my stationaryand = it, so here is the resend. To all who helped me figure out this quad rod I have, a BIG = was relatively sure it was an Edwards by what most of you said, but = handwriting) and "#" something, can't read the first number, = annealing, hammering and polishing, I don't ever want to do another = I'll stick with my "six sticks" and leave the quads to those = patience! Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0303_01BFDB9D.3783DBC0-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 21 16:41:48 2000 e5LLflG18532 Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:41:45 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Hallelujah, I'm a bum! Mac,All of us who cannot make the trip are genuinely envious. Please tellall the "bums" up there the rest of us, who have to work for a living, said,"Hello"! Harry Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Finagled my way loose - headed for Grayrock tomorrow morningearly, if but only for a day and a half. I guess I'm not quite yet afull time Trout Bum like those other ne'er-do-wells ;-) ............butI'm workin' on it hard as I can! YEA! Really looking forward to putting faces with names. regards to all - I'm headed NORTH! mac --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mep@mint.net Wed Jun 21 17:55:37 2000 e5LMtbG19991 Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:55:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie I appreciated your post. That's what this is all about, what to use , where togetit, how to use it. Give me a break!!!!! Mike Heidt wrote: To Mr. Peter Gillespie,This morning I sent a message that I thought might be of interest tosomeon the list about where I found and purchased Nickle Silver. Apparently Ioffended your sensiblities. I would now like to apologize to you for mytransgression and vow to never again send "COMMERCIAL e- mails". Even if Ihave no commerical connection to the company what-so-ever or if it maybeof interest to someone other than yourself.Just Damn,Gary H. At 09:29 AM 6/21/00 -0400, peter gillespie wrote:hi gary, By sending me email again you agree to my terms forunsolicited commercial email reception and storage listed below: download fee...................... $10 U.S. per message.storage fee ...................... $5 U.S. / day (or portion thereof)per messageopen message fee.............. $20 U.S. /openingdelete message fee........... $10 U.S. /messageattachment fee..................$50 U.S. each (for obvious reasonsunsolicited attachments must be immediately deleted (trashed) sothere is no separate fee for deleting these and under nocircumstances will they be opened) your messages will be filtered into a separate mail box for storageupon arrival. to delete previous messages include "please deleteprevious stored messages" in the subject line of your email (Nocharge for these.) you will be billed monthly at this email addressand instructed on payment at that time. thank you for your business, peter gillespie p.s. these terms will apply to all email from or aboutbusbymetals.com so you might want to inform them. from channer1@rmi.net Wed Jun 21 18:11:30 2000 e5LNBUG20473 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Gary;Don't waste your time on this guy. Where is that girl from " down under"when we really need her?John from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jun 21 18:31:22 2000 e5LNVLG20889 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie oh Yeah--- Her? from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Jun 21 19:31:04 2000 e5M0V3G22126 Subject: Fw: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Gary:I'm in your court, disregard that crap.Ed from channer1@rmi.net Wed Jun 21 21:22:05 2000 e5M2M4G23342 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Ralph W Moon wrote: oh Yeah--- Her?She'ld know how to respond to a message like that, would't she Ralph.John from lars32@gateway.net Wed Jun 21 21:33:42 2000 (may be forged)) e5M2XfG23571 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Who is this guy anyway?Dave N.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Ralph W Moon wrote: oh Yeah--- Her?She'ld know how to respond to a message like that, would't she Ralph.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jun 21 21:58:14 2000 e5M2wDG23997 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:59:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Somehow I seem to have been left out of the loop on this guy's complaint, asI never saw it. It strikes me that this is far from the first time, one ofus has let the list know of an item(s) that were available ! I wonder whatpulled the chain on the N.S. ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Who is this guy anyway?Dave N.-----Original Message-----From: channer Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 9:23 PMSubject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Ralph W Moon wrote: oh Yeah--- Her?She'ld know how to respond to a message like that, would't she Ralph.John from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jun 21 22:20:39 2000 e5M3KcG24326 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:15:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie I guess we should just take things like that with a grain of salt... Itwas kinda funny, even if the guy meant it to be totally sarcastic, to me hecame off short of that, and just hung around the funny stage. Hmmmm...wonder how long it took him to concoct that price list of his. I'm sure itwas at least as long as it takes to delete 50 or 60 messages that you aren'tinterested in. To me it sounded more like his problem was more with BusbyMetals than it was with the post. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Somehow I seem to have been left out of the loop on this guy's complaint,asI never saw it. It strikes me that this is far from the first time, one ofus has let the list know of an item(s) that were available ! I wonder whatpulled the chain on the N.S. ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "lars32" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 9:44 PMSubject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Who is this guy anyway?Dave N.-----Original Message-----From: channer Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 9:23 PMSubject: Re: Apology to Mr.Gillespie Ralph W Moon wrote: oh Yeah--- Her?She'ld know how to respond to a message like that, would't she Ralph.John from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 22 05:38:25 2000 e5MAcOG28462 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Mad River/Ohio Hello All, Anyone in the Dayton, Cincinnati, Hamilton area have any info on the MadRiver in Ohio? I am going to be in the area for a family reunion andplan to spend Monday there limbering some cane. Any good spots to putin. Please pardon the non building post. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cotner@novagate.com Thu Jun 22 08:11:40 2000 e5MDBdG00322 Subject: Re: Mad River/Ohio Steve - I grew up in Springfield (Ohio) which is right on Mad River, and about30 miles east of Dayton and 75 miles north of Cin-City. I've neverfished it for trout but understand it holds some. Ohio Edison has(had?) a dam on the river in Springfield. Above Springfield to Urbana,Mad River runs 15-30' wide. Between Urbana and West Liberty (both northof Springfield on Route 68), I believe it's much narrower. I believethe trout would be in the upper reaches above Urbana. Local knowledgemay help focus further. Good luck! I'd appreciate a report as my mother still lives there and good fishingwould be a good excuse to go visit more often.Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan Steve Trauthwein wrote: Hello All, Anyone in the Dayton, Cincinnati, Hamilton area have any info on the MadRiver in Ohio? I am going to be in the area for a family reunion andplan to spend Monday there limbering some cane. Any good spots to putin. Please pardon the non building post. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jun 22 09:16:01 2000 e5MEG0G02541 Subject: Re: Mad River/Ohio Contact Mad River Outfitters. They are an Orvis dealer and really good guys. They have all the skinny on the Mad.Bret from steve@hamiltonrods.com Thu Jun 22 13:39:13 2000 e5MIdCG10414 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: How flamed is flamed? e5MIdDG10415 The last three rods I've built have been flamed. The first one was built usinga half-culm (split longways) that I decided to "tiger" flame by burningconcentric lines about two inches in width and two inches apart along theculm. Do any of you do the same thing and like the look? The second two were built from the same culm, which I flamed evenly--or atleast that was the intent. Those two rods came out a nice dark brown--darker in some places than in others. Darker at the nodes because I flamedthe culm after filing the nodes. Knowing that, next time I would flame morelightly over the nodes than the rest of the culm. I really like the look of the brown rods--but I actually thought they'd come outdarker (almost black) because the enamel was evenly black. Do any of youflame such that the rods actually turn out an even ebony in color? Does thisapproach risk damage to the power fibers? --Steve from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jun 22 13:47:01 2000 e5MIl0G10735 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:42:20 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: How flamed is flamed? Steve,IMHO, flaming to an ebony color is borderline damaging the cane. I do amottled flame where I "burn" a spiral down the length of a 10 foot culm theburn being about 1" wide with 1" spacing. This leaves the flamed areafairly dark, and the untorched area a "middle of the road" tone, betweenblonde and brown.My suggestion, if you want a dark rod that is uniformly colored, tryammonia fume toning. Nasty process and needs to be done outdoors. I don'tknow how dark you could actually get a blank, but I have put out some verydark brown pieces doing this. Longer may get it darker, but I just take itout when it has acheived the tone I want. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: How flamed is flamed? The last three rods I've built have been flamed. The first one was builtusing a half-culm (split longways) that I decided to "tiger" flame byburning concentric lines about two inches in width and two inches apartalong the culm. Do any of you do the same thing and like the look? The second two were built from the same culm, which I flamed evenly--or atleast that was the intent. Those two rods came out a nice dark brown--darkerin some places than in others. Darker at the nodes because I flamed the culmafter filing the nodes. Knowing that, next time I would flame more lightlyover the nodes than the rest of the culm. I really like the look of the brown rods--but I actually thought they'dcome out darker (almost black) because the enamel was evenly black. Do anyof you flame such that the rods actually turn out an even ebony in color?Does this approach risk damage to the power fibers? --Steve from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jun 22 15:33:26 2000 e5MKXOG14350 Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:33:17 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: How flamed is flamed? Bob Nunley wrote: Steve,IMHO, flaming to an ebony color is borderline damaging the cane. Steve Z. wrote: Does this approach risk damage to the power fibers? Steve,I've seen Wayne Cattanach give demonstrations on flaming twice now. He's atGrayrock, I'm sure, so I'll try to share what I learned from him. Wayne sayswhat you want to do is keep the flame moving at a consistent speed andconsistent distance from the culm. When you see the outer layer of enamel"explode" into little bubbles, you're getting it just right. According toWayne, with practice you can flame the enamel to an almost shiny silverishlooking black without damaging the power fibers, assuming your torch is hotenough to do so rather quickly. A very quick application of high heat will notdamage, while a longer application of a cooler flame will. This is another oneof those aspects of rodmaking that is hard to explain in words, but easy toshow. I think I remember someone saying that Wayne's video has a goodsectionon flaming. I've tried several different degrees of flaming, and have settled on what Icall a "medium-flamed" look as my favorite. My goal is to get a fairlyconsistent darkening of the pwer fibers without producing a truly mottledlook.I just finished a darkly flamed, Cattanach / PH Young looking rod, and while itis striking, it's not my favorite. Harry Boyd from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jun 22 15:55:48 2000 e5MKtlG15275 0400 Subject: RE: How flamed is flamed? The video does have a good piece on it. His son is out there flaming aculm on the barbie!. Actually, he uses a torch and the culm is restingon the barbecue. It looks just as described below. The trick isexactly as stated below....hot flame, consistent motion and distance.I would also make sure you know where any major defects are in thecane before flaming so you can avoid those strips when you split themout. It's hard to see once blackened. I split mine in halves so Ididn't have to worry about turning the cane. It got that shiny blackand the rod is fine. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: How flamed is flamed? Bob Nunley wrote: Steve,IMHO, flaming to an ebony color is borderline damaging the cane. Steve Z. wrote: Does this approach risk damage to the power fibers? Steve,I've seen Wayne Cattanach give demonstrations on flaming twicenow. He's atGrayrock, I'm sure, so I'll try to share what I learned from him.Wayne sayswhat you want to do is keep the flame moving at a consistent speed andconsistent distance from the culm. When you see the outer layer ofenamel"explode" into little bubbles, you're getting it just right.According toWayne, with practice you can flame the enamel to an almost shinysilverishlooking black without damaging the power fibers, assuming your torchis hotenough to do so rather quickly. A very quick application of high heatwill notdamage, while a longer application of a cooler flame will. This isanother oneof those aspects of rodmaking that is hard to explain in words, buteasy toshow. I think I remember someone saying that Wayne's video has a goodsectionon flaming. I've tried several different degrees of flaming, and have settledon what Icall a "medium-flamed" look as my favorite. My goal is to get afairlyconsistent darkening of the pwer fibers without producing a trulymottled look.I just finished a darkly flamed, Cattanach / PH Young looking rod, andwhile itis striking, it's not my favorite. Harry Boyd from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jun 22 16:47:18 2000 e5MLlIG16885 14:54:02 PDT Subject: RE: How flamed is flamed? Andrew, That's a good point you made about marking cosmetic flaws before flaming. I use a black marker and make little "X's" on the very end grain of the culm wherever there is a flawed area I want to avoid. If it's a three piece and I can place the flaw such that it is under the handle, I'll mark the same place with a little "B", so when I split it out further I know to use this in making the butt section rather then the mid. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jun 22 17:05:13 2000 e5MM5CG17358 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:00:29 -0500 Subject: Re: How flamed is flamed? Well, Apparently flaming this dark doesn't hurt the cane. I humbly standcorrected and will have to try this someday.-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: How flamed is flamed? The video does have a good piece on it. His son is out there flaming aculm on the barbie!. Actually, he uses a torch and the culm is restingon the barbecue. It looks just as described below. The trick isexactly as stated below....hot flame, consistent motion and distance.I would also make sure you know where any major defects are in thecane before flaming so you can avoid those strips when you split themout. It's hard to see once blackened. I split mine in halves so Ididn't have to worry about turning the cane. It got that shiny blackand the rod is fine. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 4:29 PM Cc: steve@hamiltonrods.com; Rod Makers List ServeSubject: Re: How flamed is flamed? Bob Nunley wrote: Steve,IMHO, flaming to an ebony color is borderline damaging the cane. Steve Z. wrote: Does this approach risk damage to the power fibers? Steve,I've seen Wayne Cattanach give demonstrations on flaming twicenow. He's atGrayrock, I'm sure, so I'll try to share what I learned from him.Wayne sayswhat you want to do is keep the flame moving at a consistent speed andconsistent distance from the culm. When you see the outer layer ofenamel"explode" into little bubbles, you're getting it just right.According toWayne, with practice you can flame the enamel to an almost shinysilverishlooking black without damaging the power fibers, assuming your torchis hotenough to do so rather quickly. A very quick application of high heatwill notdamage, while a longer application of a cooler flame will. This isanother oneof those aspects of rodmaking that is hard to explain in words, buteasy toshow. I think I remember someone saying that Wayne's video has a goodsectionon flaming. I've tried several different degrees of flaming, and have settledon what Icall a "medium-flamed" look as my favorite. My goal is to get afairlyconsistent darkening of the pwer fibers without producing a trulymottled look.I just finished a darkly flamed, Cattanach / PH Young looking rod, andwhile itis striking, it's not my favorite. Harry Boyd from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Jun 22 18:33:12 2000 e5MNXCG18958 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Other Cane Importance: Normal You know, whenever someone on this list brings up the possibility ofbuilding rods with some other type of bamboo than Tonkin cane, someoneusually pipes in and says "why bother, when good Tonkin culms are cheap andavailable." Truth is, though, that among the hundreds of species, there may somespecies that are superior to Tonkin cane for rod building. I recently sawan add for cane rods by Waterside Innovations in a British fly fishingmagazine that read as follows: PowerFibre Rods: Tell us what you want and we'll build you a unique rod from PowerFibre cane. Lighter and Stronger than traditional bamboo. Perhaps this rodmaker HAS found a better bamboo. Following is a URL that describes a few very promising candidates: http://virtual.nrg.com.au/bamboo/pages/SpeciesRef.html Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Davidhray1@aol.comSent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: Other Cane I have often wondered and have often heard others ask aboutusing differentkinds of cane. While I was in Mississippi I found some largelocal cane. Itwas the same size as the tonkin cane that I buy but the nodeswere not aslong. I was by a local expert rod builder that it might workOK in a smalltaper. I decided to build two rods out of the cane one a SirD converted to a2 wt and Bob Nunley's 6' 9" two weight. I cast the rod Bobmade in theArkansas meeting last year and I build a similar Sir D intonkin cane. I mustsay that the Mississippi cane although as large as thick astonkin does nothave the power fibers to make a good rod. The Sir D in Tonkinis a strongpowerful 2 wt but the Mississippi cane rod is a wimpy oneweight. The sameis true for Bob's taper. When I cast his rod it has a backbone with a 2weight but in Mississippi cane it has little power with a 1wt line. Both ofmy rods are fishable but only at short distances. I cannotspeak for othercane but I decided that if I am going to spend the time tobuild a rod andget one that I can trust I will use tonkin cane. David H. Ray from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jun 22 19:08:16 2000 e5N08EG19471 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:09:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Other Cane I'll be most interested to hear if Tony Young has seen, or tried any ofthese !??? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Other Cane You know, whenever someone on this list brings up the possibility ofbuilding rods with some other type of bamboo than Tonkin cane, someoneusually pipes in and says "why bother, when good Tonkin culms are cheapandavailable."> Truth is, though, that among the hundreds of species, theremay somespecies that are superior to Tonkin cane for rod building. I recently sawan add for cane rods by Waterside Innovations in a British fly fishingmagazine that read as follows: PowerFibre Rods: Tell us what you want and we'll build you a unique rod from PowerFibre cane. Lighter and Stronger than traditional bamboo. Perhaps this rodmaker HAS found a better bamboo. Following is a URL that describes a few very promising candidates: http://virtual.nrg.com.au/bamboo/pages/SpeciesRef.html Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Davidhray1@aol.comSent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: Other Cane I have often wondered and have often heard others ask aboutusing differentkinds of cane. While I was in Mississippi I found some largelocal cane. Itwas the same size as the tonkin cane that I buy but the nodeswere not aslong. I was by a local expert rod builder that it might workOK in a smalltaper. I decided to build two rods out of the cane one a SirD converted to a2 wt and Bob Nunley's 6' 9" two weight. I cast the rod Bobmade in theArkansas meeting last year and I build a similar Sir D intonkin cane. I mustsay that the Mississippi cane although as large as thick astonkin does nothave the power fibers to make a good rod. The Sir D in Tonkinis a strongpowerful 2 wt but the Mississippi cane rod is a wimpy oneweight. The sameis true for Bob's taper. When I cast his rod it has a backbone with a 2weight but in Mississippi cane it has little power with a 1wt line. Both ofmy rods are fishable but only at short distances. I cannotspeak for othercane but I decided that if I am going to spend the time tobuild a rod andget one that I can trust I will use tonkin cane. David H. Ray from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Jun 22 19:10:17 2000 e5N0AGG19593 RAA20851 Subject: Re: Other Cane I believe the "powerFibre rods" are just nodeless and not a differentspecies Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Other Cane You know, whenever someone on this list brings up the possibility ofbuilding rods with some other type of bamboo than Tonkin cane, someoneusually pipes in and says "why bother, when good Tonkin culms are cheapandavailable." Truth is, though, that among the hundreds of species, there may somespecies that are superior to Tonkin cane for rod building. I recently sawan add for cane rods by Waterside Innovations in a British fly fishingmagazine that read as follows: PowerFibre Rods: Tell us what you want and we'll build you a unique rod from PowerFibre cane. Lighter and Stronger than traditional bamboo. Perhaps this rodmaker HAS found a better bamboo. Following is a URL that describes a few very promising candidates: http://virtual.nrg.com.au/bamboo/pages/SpeciesRef.html Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Davidhray1@aol.comSent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: Other Cane I have often wondered and have often heard others ask aboutusing differentkinds of cane. While I was in Mississippi I found some largelocal cane. Itwas the same size as the tonkin cane that I buy but the nodeswere not aslong. I was by a local expert rod builder that it might workOK in a smalltaper. I decided to build two rods out of the cane one a SirD converted to a2 wt and Bob Nunley's 6' 9" two weight. I cast the rod Bobmade in theArkansas meeting last year and I build a similar Sir D intonkin cane. I mustsay that the Mississippi cane although as large as thick astonkin does nothave the power fibers to make a good rod. The Sir D in Tonkinis a strongpowerful 2 wt but the Mississippi cane rod is a wimpy oneweight. The sameis true for Bob's taper. When I cast his rod it has a backbone with a 2weight but in Mississippi cane it has little power with a 1wt line. Both ofmy rods are fishable but only at short distances. I cannotspeak for othercane but I decided that if I am going to spend the time tobuild a rod andget one that I can trust I will use tonkin cane. David H. Ray from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Thu Jun 22 21:43:46 2000 e5N2hjG21452 helo=stans.tiac.net) Subject: Oven questions Hey Folks,I built one of Jon McAnulty's Air-flow heat gun ovens this weekend, andhad a few questions re: it's performance. There are two changes to hisoriginal plan: 1) instead of the internal baffles, I riveted 2 pieces ofgalvanized corner-bead the length of the inner tube - one on-top, onebelow. With this, the inner tube slips into the outer tube nicely andcenters perfectly. The corner-bead is perforated with many holes it'sentire length, so circulation is not a problem. 2) the inner tube I usedis 4", not 3".I bought a Wagner 750/1000 dual heat gun and got the oven up andrunningtoday. Note that I have not yet encased the oven in fiberglass or it'swooden case - just had the bare pipes, with a magnetic woodstovethermometer set on top at the half-way point.After 40 min. at the low setting, the thermometer still only read 100*F.and seemed content right there... I kicked the gun up to high, and movedthe thermometer to the end of the oven where the gun is, as that areaseemed hotter to me. Indeed, the thermometer jumped quickly up to 180* F.I moved the thermometer back to the center of the oven, where it droppedback down; after about an hour and ten minutes, it had climbed to 150*F.,and seemed to stay there.Will I get the 350* F. I need if I wait longer? It didn't seem to beheading any higher... Will encasing the oven in fiberglass and wood, as itis designed to be, help to reach higher temps? Is the heat loss from thechimney too much? It seemed considerable. And last but not least, is thatsort of external thermometer truly indicative of whats going on within theoven? (By the way - I was outside in a stiff breeze).Any help that can be passed along to this rookie wanna-be rod-builder,will most appreciated. Cheers, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from timklein@uswest.net Thu Jun 22 22:50:51 2000 e5N3ooG22414 (63.225.127.184) Subject: Re: Oven questions Part of your problem may be the heat gun you're using. I had a Wagner heat gun that burned out (actually, I had THREE that burnedout) and I decided to purchase a better heat gun after the last one. I wentwith a Sears industrial unit, and when I fired it up, I was surprised at howmuch more air the Sears gun puts out. I didn't have an airflow oven at the time so I can't say definitively thatthe gun is your problem, but my impression with the Wagner was that itdidn't have enough air velocity for an oven. The Sears gun was pretty pricey (around $100.00) so you might want totake alook at the airflow oven in the Maurer book. It's single tube constructionand requires flipping the pieces end for end (as do most of the double tubeovens), but the Wagner might be able to support that one. As for the other factors you mentioned; I do use an airflow oven now and aslight breeze will suck a lot of heat away from your oven very quickly (Ilose as much as 50 degrees in a stiff breeze). Regarding insulation: I removed the insulation from my oven after noticinghow hot the insulation got during oven use. It just felt unsafe to mesomehow, and I've learned to listen to that little voice in my head. Theoven obviously gets extremely hot on the outside so I always use it outdoorsand pay CONSTANT careful attention to what is going on in and around theoven. Without the insulation it takes a little longer to heat up, but I canhold cooking temperature easily enough and cool down is dramaticallyreduced. The other nice thing I notice now that the oven has no insulationis that changes in the heat setting on the gun result in nearly immediatechanges to the temperature in the oven. Good luck!---Tim "I'm a bamboo rodmaker, and I don't do anything the easy way if I can helpit!" ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Oven questions Hey Folks,I built one of Jon McAnulty's Air-flow heat gun ovens this weekend, andhad a few questions re: it's performance. There are two changes to hisoriginal plan: 1) instead of the internal baffles, I riveted 2 pieces ofgalvanized corner-bead the length of the inner tube - one on-top, onebelow. With this, the inner tube slips into the outer tube nicely andcenters perfectly. The corner-bead is perforated with many holes it'sentire length, so circulation is not a problem. 2) the inner tube I usedis 4", not 3".I bought a Wagner 750/1000 dual heat gun and got the oven up and runningtoday. Note that I have not yet encased the oven in fiberglass or it'swooden case - just had the bare pipes, with a magnetic woodstovethermometer set on top at the half-way point.After 40 min. at the low setting, the thermometer still only read 100*F.and seemed content right there... I kicked the gun up to high, and movedthe thermometer to the end of the oven where the gun is, as that areaseemed hotter to me. Indeed, the thermometer jumped quickly up to 180*F.I moved the thermometer back to the center of the oven, where it droppedback down; after about an hour and ten minutes, it had climbed to 150*F.,and seemed to stay there.Will I get the 350* F. I need if I wait longer? It didn't seem to beheading any higher... Will encasing the oven in fiberglass and wood, as itis designed to be, help to reach higher temps? Is the heat loss from thechimney too much? It seemed considerable. And last but not least, is thatsort of external thermometer truly indicative of whats going on within theoven? (By the way - I was outside in a stiff breeze).Any help that can be passed along to this rookie wanna-be rod-builder,will most appreciated. Cheers, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Jun 23 02:09:09 2000 e5N798G25154 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:08:51 +0100 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Other Cane I inspected the Powerfibre Rods at the Chatsworth Game fair in May andcan confirm that the cane is nothing special, good old Tonkin is usedwith a nodeless construction.........Paul nobler wrote: I'll be most interested to hear if Tony Young has seen, or tried any ofthese !??? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Richard Nantel" Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 5:52 PMSubject: RE: Other Cane You know, whenever someone on this list brings up the possibility ofbuilding rods with some other type of bamboo than Tonkin cane, someoneusually pipes in and says "why bother, when good Tonkin culms are cheapandavailable." Truth is, though, that among the hundreds of species, there may somespecies that are superior to Tonkin cane for rod building. I recently sawan add for cane rods by Waterside Innovations in a British fly fishingmagazine that read as follows: PowerFibre Rods: Tell us what you want and we'll build you a unique rod from PowerFibre cane. Lighter and Stronger than traditional bamboo. Perhaps this rodmaker HAS found a better bamboo. Following is a URL that describes a few very promising candidates: http://virtual.nrg.com.au/bamboo/pages/SpeciesRef.html Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Davidhray1@aol.comSent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: Other Cane I have often wondered and have often heard others ask aboutusing differentkinds of cane. While I was in Mississippi I found some largelocal cane. Itwas the same size as the tonkin cane that I buy but the nodeswere not aslong. I was by a local expert rod builder that it might workOK in a smalltaper. I decided to build two rods out of the cane one a SirD converted to a2 wt and Bob Nunley's 6' 9" two weight. I cast the rod Bobmade in theArkansas meeting last year and I build a similar Sir D intonkin cane. I mustsay that the Mississippi cane although as large as thick astonkin does nothave the power fibers to make a good rod. The Sir D in Tonkinis a strongpowerful 2 wt but the Mississippi cane rod is a wimpy oneweight. The sameis true for Bob's taper. When I cast his rod it has a backbone with a 2weight but in Mississippi cane it has little power with a 1wt line. Both ofmy rods are fishable but only at short distances. I cannotspeak for othercane but I decided that if I am going to spend the time tobuild a rod andget one that I can trust I will use tonkin cane. David H. Ray from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 23 06:18:14 2000 e5NBI8G27928 Subject: nobler Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFDD57.B6585A00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFDD57.B6585A00 Is that Tony Young, the noted chef by appointment to Wayne, of whom you =speak? The Gourmet of Grayrock?Can you be a bit more specific, George, about what you mean by "tried" - =rod building, or stir-frying?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFDD57.B6585A00 Is that Tony Young, the noted chef by = to Wayne, of whom you speak? The Gourmet of Grayrock?Can you be a bit more specific, George,= you mean by "tried" - rod building, or stir-frying?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFDD57.B6585A00-- from lars32@gateway.net Fri Jun 23 08:04:24 2000 e5ND4NG29661 Subject: Re: Oven questions Alec,I insulated mine by sliding a larger stove pipe over the outside of theoven. I could not get the heat up without it. With it the heat comes up injust a few minutes and the outside of the oven is no longer dangerously hot.I monitor the temp with three candy thermometers low med and high on theoven with small holes drilled into the inner chamber. Works for me!Dave Norling-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Oven questions Part of your problem may be the heat gun you're using. I had a Wagner heat gun that burned out (actually, I had THREE that burnedout) and I decided to purchase a better heat gun after the last one. I wentwith a Sears industrial unit, and when I fired it up, I was surprised athowmuch more air the Sears gun puts out. I didn't have an airflow oven at the time so I can't say definitively thatthe gun is your problem, but my impression with the Wagner was that itdidn't have enough air velocity for an oven. The Sears gun was pretty pricey (around $100.00) so you might want totakealook at the airflow oven in the Maurer book. It's single tube constructionand requires flipping the pieces end for end (as do most of the double tubeovens), but the Wagner might be able to support that one. As for the other factors you mentioned; I do use an airflow oven now and aslight breeze will suck a lot of heat away from your oven very quickly (Ilose as much as 50 degrees in a stiff breeze). Regarding insulation: I removed the insulation from my oven after noticinghow hot the insulation got during oven use. It just felt unsafe to mesomehow, and I've learned to listen to that little voice in my head. Theoven obviously gets extremely hot on the outside so I always use itoutdoorsand pay CONSTANT careful attention to what is going on in and around theoven. Without the insulation it takes a little longer to heat up, but I canhold cooking temperature easily enough and cool down is dramaticallyreduced. The other nice thing I notice now that the oven has no insulationis that changes in the heat setting on the gun result in nearly immediatechanges to the temperature in the oven. Good luck!---Tim "I'm a bamboo rodmaker, and I don't do anything the easy way if I can helpit!" ----- Original Message -----From: Alec Stansell Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 8:53 PMSubject: Oven questions Hey Folks,I built one of Jon McAnulty's Air-flow heat gun ovens this weekend, andhad a few questions re: it's performance. There are two changes to hisoriginal plan: 1) instead of the internal baffles, I riveted 2 pieces ofgalvanized corner-bead the length of the inner tube - one on-top, onebelow. With this, the inner tube slips into the outer tube nicely andcenters perfectly. The corner-bead is perforated with many holes it'sentire length, so circulation is not a problem. 2) the inner tube I usedis 4", not 3".I bought a Wagner 750/1000 dual heat gun and got the oven up andrunningtoday. Note that I have not yet encased the oven in fiberglass or it'swooden case - just had the bare pipes, with a magnetic woodstovethermometer set on top at the half-way point.After 40 min. at the low setting, the thermometer still only read 100*F.and seemed content right there... I kicked the gun up to high, andmovedthe thermometer to the end of the oven where the gun is, as that areaseemed hotter to me. Indeed, the thermometer jumped quickly up to180*F.I moved the thermometer back to the center of the oven, where itdroppedback down; after about an hour and ten minutes, it had climbed to 150*F.,and seemed to stay there.Will I get the 350* F. I need if I wait longer? It didn't seem to beheading any higher... Will encasing the oven in fiberglass and wood, asitis designed to be, help to reach higher temps? Is the heat loss from thechimney too much? It seemed considerable. And last but not least, is thatsort of external thermometer truly indicative of whats going on withintheoven? (By the way - I was outside in a stiff breeze).Any help that can be passed along to this rookie wanna-be rod-builder,will most appreciated. Cheers, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Jun 23 08:34:43 2000 e5NDYgG00822; Subject: Re: Oven questions rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hi Alec,I had the same problem with my oven. I followed the advice of Ian Kearney . Changed one thing. So here goes i start with 2 3/4 cook pipe. On the outside of that is the heat gun pipe. That one i put a 1 1/2 copper pipe. I thought it would hold more heat. That one i took all the down to 4in from the bottom. Around that, I put a 4in pipe. Next i put a 6in pipe around all of it. I don't use any insulation. Now the oven will go 410f. in about 15 to 20 min. Tom from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jun 23 08:36:59 2000 e5NDawG00970 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:37:49 -0500 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: nobler Peter, I couldn't recall your name, but yes, any of you guys from "DownUnder" who may have tried these canes, grown there. I must assume eitherthey are not worth it, or you haven't seen them. When I was there, in'93/'94, they discovered a group of trees, thought to be extinct, that dated50 million years ago ! No telling what's down in that Wonderland, where youall live ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: nobler Is that Tony Young, the noted chef by appointment to Wayne, of whom youspeak? The Gourmet of Grayrock?Can you be a bit more specific, George, about what you mean by "tried" - rodbuilding, or stir-frying?Peter from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Jun 23 08:45:37 2000 e5NDjbG01329 Subject: silk recond Hi all,I just bought a 4wt. silk line . Read reed currys web site. He recomends using forbys tung/ varnish . I have min-wax tung oil finish now does that have varnish in it also or do i need to buy something that says tung oil /varnish on the can? Thanks Tom from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jun 23 09:08:33 2000 e5NE8WG02145 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:09:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Oven questions This insulation thing needs some study, as there are "space age" insulationmaterials now, that will withstand a oxy/acet. torch, and they are often1/4" thick or less ! You can put the torch to a cookie sheet, with theinsulation on the opposite side, and you won't be burned with your fingerexactly opposite the flame !!!! I just haven't had time to go searching, but I need some of this material somethingof this nature ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Oven questions Alec,I insulated mine by sliding a larger stove pipe over the outside of theoven. I could not get the heat up without it. With it the heat comes up injust a few minutes and the outside of the oven is no longer dangerouslyhot.I monitor the temp with three candy thermometers low med and high ontheoven with small holes drilled into the inner chamber. Works for me!Dave Norling-----Original Message-----From: Tim Klein Date: Thursday, June 22, 2000 10:51 PMSubject: Re: Oven questions Part of your problem may be the heat gun you're using. I had a Wagner heat gun that burned out (actually, I had THREE thatburnedout) and I decided to purchase a better heat gun after the last one. Iwentwith a Sears industrial unit, and when I fired it up, I was surprised athowmuch more air the Sears gun puts out. I didn't have an airflow oven at the time so I can't say definitivelythatthe gun is your problem, but my impression with the Wagner was that itdidn't have enough air velocity for an oven. The Sears gun was pretty pricey (around $100.00) so you might want totakealook at the airflow oven in the Maurer book. It's single tubeconstructionand requires flipping the pieces end for end (as do most of the doubletubeovens), but the Wagner might be able to support that one. As for the other factors you mentioned; I do use an airflow oven now andaslight breeze will suck a lot of heat away from your oven very quickly (Ilose as much as 50 degrees in a stiff breeze). Regarding insulation: I removed the insulation from my oven afternoticinghow hot the insulation got during oven use. It just felt unsafe to mesomehow, and I've learned to listen to that little voice in my head. Theoven obviously gets extremely hot on the outside so I always use itoutdoorsand pay CONSTANT careful attention to what is going on in and around theoven. Without the insulation it takes a little longer to heat up, but Icanhold cooking temperature easily enough and cool down is dramaticallyreduced. The other nice thing I notice now that the oven has noinsulationis that changes in the heat setting on the gun result in nearly immediatechanges to the temperature in the oven. Good luck!---Tim "I'm a bamboo rodmaker, and I don't do anything the easy way if I canhelpit!" ----- Original Message -----From: Alec Stansell Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 8:53 PMSubject: Oven questions Hey Folks,I built one of Jon McAnulty's Air-flow heat gun ovens this weekend, andhad a few questions re: it's performance. There are two changes to hisoriginal plan: 1) instead of the internal baffles, I riveted 2 piecesofgalvanized corner-bead the length of the inner tube - one on-top, onebelow. With this, the inner tube slips into the outer tube nicely andcenters perfectly. The corner-bead is perforated with many holes it'sentire length, so circulation is not a problem. 2) the inner tube Iusedis 4", not 3".I bought a Wagner 750/1000 dual heat gun and got the oven up andrunningtoday. Note that I have not yet encased the oven in fiberglass or it'swooden case - just had the bare pipes, with a magnetic woodstovethermometer set on top at the half-way point.After 40 min. at the low setting, the thermometer still only read 100*F.and seemed content right there... I kicked the gun up to high, andmovedthe thermometer to the end of the oven where the gun is, as that areaseemed hotter to me. Indeed, the thermometer jumped quickly up to180*F.I moved the thermometer back to the center of the oven, where itdroppedback down; after about an hour and ten minutes, it had climbed to150*F.,and seemed to stay there.Will I get the 350* F. I need if I wait longer? It didn't seem to beheading any higher... Will encasing the oven in fiberglass and wood, asitis designed to be, help to reach higher temps? Is the heat loss fromthechimney too much? It seemed considerable. And last but not least, isthatsort of external thermometer truly indicative of whats going on withintheoven? (By the way - I was outside in a stiff breeze).Any help that can be passed along to this rookie wanna-be rod-builder,will most appreciated. Cheers, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jun 23 10:54:01 2000 e5NFs1G05189 Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:52:27 -0500 R8.31.00.5) Subject: Re: Oven questions Alec,I can relay my experiences with the one that I originally built. When you add insulation and encase it your temperatures will go way up. I had too low temps when it was just bare metal pipes. Now, with the insulation I set my heat gun (one of the Sears adjustables) around 6 to get temps at 375 degrees. I have not had problems with a temperature gradient inside although my measurement technique is not rocket science. I use a good candy thermometer attached by the frame (this thermometer has a metal frame with a hole in it) to a coat hanger wire. I slide it inside the inner pipe variable distances, close up the oven, wait what I judge to be an appropriate time for it to equilibrate and then whip it out and read it. It is possible it changes one or two degrees as I pull it out but I don't think this is significant. Once I worked out the regimen I just use the numbers on the gun to set the temp and only rarely check it with a thermometer. It has been very reproducible. I think you will find that an outside thermometer (which is how I interpret your post) will not work well. Too much heat loss to make it accurate regarding what is going on inside the oven. There is a lot of heat that comes out the chimney. I don't think this is a problem although I don't know how using the larger diameter inner tube will affect how the oven works. I would think it should be OK. The only drawback I have found to this design if that it takes a fair amount of time to go from one temperature setting to another. I use a discontinuous heating regimen similar to one that was posted here a while back. The details are at home in my notebook. However, it goes something like mid-200's for an hour, low 300's for half hour and high temp (375?) for a half hour. I don't flip my blanks in the oven and they come out evenly colored. My oven takes about a half hour to go between temperatures (this is very vague and is recalled in a coffee- and sleep-deprived state so don't use these numbers in real life!). I get a very nice medium to medium dark brown tone to the cane and it ends up very steel-springy and appreciably reduced in volume. I have been very pleased with these results. The regimen is essentially one posted that was used by a classic builder that I have modified to account for the times it takes for my oven to change temps. If you want the exact figures I can bring it in on Monday and post it. I have also added a removable section to the stove that lengthens the tube for when I want to put my steel forms inside it. I do this with a strap metal weight on the blank when I heat cure my Nyatex to aid in straightening the sections. The only real thing I don't like about the design is it takes a while to equilibrate at my starting temps. Better insulation may have helped this or use more pipes as some posters have noted. You should be sure you get fire resistant insulation if you use insulation. Make the first run outside as it does seem to outgas some fumes from the insulation. After that I have had no problems. Frank Neunneman also has a hot air oven design on his web page that a lot of people have used. Seems like they all need a little tweaking in regards to determining if there is a temperature gradient, flipping the blanks, and getting the desired temps.Hope this helps.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________Subject: Oven questions Author: at Internet-MailDate: 6/22/00 10:53 PM Hey Folks,I built one of Jon McAnulty's Air-flow heat gun ovens this weekend, andhad a few questions re: it's performance. There are two changes to his original plan: 1) instead of the internal baffles, I riveted 2 pieces of galvanized corner-bead the length of the inner tube - one on-top, one below. With this, the inner tube slips into the outer tube nicely and centers perfectly. The corner-bead is perforated with many holes it's entire length, so circulation is not a problem. 2) the inner tube I used is 4", not 3".I bought a Wagner 750/1000 dual heat gun and got the oven up and runningtoday. Note that I have not yet encased the oven in fiberglass or it's wooden case - just had the bare pipes, with a magnetic woodstove thermometer set on top at the half-way point.After 40 min. at the low setting, the thermometer still only read 100*F.and seemed content right there... I kicked the gun up to high, and moved the thermometer to the end of the oven where the gun is, as that area seemed hotter to me. Indeed, the thermometer jumped quickly up to 180* F. I moved the thermometer back to the center of the oven, where it dropped back down; after about an hour and ten minutes, it had climbed to 150*F., and seemed to stay there.Will I get the 350* F. I need if I wait longer? It didn't seem to beheading any higher... Will encasing the oven in fiberglass and wood, as it is designed to be, help to reach higher temps? Is the heat loss from the chimney too much? It seemed considerable. And last but not least, is that sort of external thermometer truly indicative of whats going on within the oven? (By the way - I was outside in a stiff breeze).Any help that can be passed along to this rookie wanna-be rod-builder,will most appreciated. Cheers, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian Booksellers Association from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 23 10:59:07 2000 e5NFx6G05527 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: silk recond Importance: Normal I was unable to find Formby's here in Canada so mixed my own concoction outof tung oil and spar varnish. I worked really badly and I was then stuckstripping this stuff off the lines and starting all over. I finallysmartened up and followed adviced from Chris Bogart. I ordered a can ofMoser's polymerized Tung Oil Varnish - High Sheen from Woodworker's supply(1-800-645-9292, part nr is - 860-078, $14.95). This works really well,creating a smooth, high sheen finish on the line. I strongly recommend yougo this route and not try to mix your own. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 9:45 AM Subject: silk recond Hi all,I just bought a 4wt. silk line . Read reed currys website. He recomendsusing forbys tung/ varnish . I have min-wax tung oil finishnow does thathave varnish in it also or do i need to buy something thatsays tung oil/varnish on the can? Thanks Tom from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Fri Jun 23 12:32:35 2000 e5NHWYG08235 Subject: Re: Oven questions At 9:12 AM -0500 on 6/23/00, nobler wrote about Re: Oven questions This insulation thing needs some study, as there are "space age" insulationmaterials now, that will withstand a oxy/acet. torch, and they are often1/4" thick or less ! You can put the torch to a cookie sheet, with theinsulation on the opposite side, and you won't be burned with your fingerexactly opposite the flame !!!! I just haven't had time to go searching, but I need some of this material somethingof this nature ! This may be what you're talking about: aerogel. One of the more famous pictures of the insulating capacity of aerogel is this onehttp://eande.lbl.gov/ECS/Aerogels/FLOWER.JPG The principal problem with it right now is that it can be fragile and is still fairly expensive to manufacture. A web site that has quite a bit of info and links on aerogel is http://aerogel.msfc.nasa.gov/default.htm You can also find some of the recent applications of aerogel athttp://aerogel.msfc.nasa.gov/webinfo.htm and the technical specifications are all provided herehttp://aerogel.msfc.nasa.gov/techspecs.htm Claude from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jun 23 13:43:48 2000 e5NIhmG09907 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:39:03 -0500 Subject: Help identifying Penta Rod!!!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010C_01BFDD18.D15DC400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01BFDD18.D15DC400 OK List,I have just aquired this penta rod, and know nothing about it. = http://members.clnk.com/caneman/penta.htmand let me know what you think it is. It appears to be a very good =quality rod as far as the cane work itself goes. NOT glued with =resourcinol is all I can say, as there is no faint purple line on the =seams, but this rod hardly has a sign of a glue line on it. VERY good =craftsmanship, finely fitted strips. HELP PLEASE! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01BFDD18.D15DC400 OK List, http://members.clnk.co=m/caneman/penta.htm resourcinol is all I can say, as there is no faint purple line on the = finely fitted strips. HELP PLEASE! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01BFDD18.D15DC400-- from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jun 23 13:54:42 2000 e5NIsgG10324 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:49:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Help identifying Penta Rod!!!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0124_01BFDD1A.583ACD00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01BFDD1A.583ACD00 Addendum to the description I have on that website. The guide wraps =are the reddish brown, but he intermediates are a brighter red. Got =this thing in the shop lights and could see that. It wasn't apparent in =the living room. Also, the ferrules are blackened brass, not nickel =silver. Also, the male ferrules have no water plugs, and are open to =the cane on the ends. The barrell of the males is super super thin and =looks to be made that way, not worn out. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Friday, June 23, 2000 1:39 PMSubject: Help identifying Penta Rod!!!! OK List,I have just aquired this penta rod, and know nothing about it. = http://members.clnk.com/caneman/penta.htmand let me know what you think it is. It appears to be a very good =quality rod as far as the cane work itself goes. NOT glued with =resourcinol is all I can say, as there is no faint purple line on the =seams, but this rod hardly has a sign of a glue line on it. VERY good =craftsmanship, finely fitted strips. HELP PLEASE! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01BFDD1A.583ACD00 description I = super super thin and looks to be made that way, not worn =out. Later,Bob -----Original = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, June 23, 2000 1:39 PMSubject: Help = Rod!!!!OK List, http://members.clnk.co=m/caneman/penta.htm resourcinol is all I can say, as there is no faint purple line on = craftsmanship, finely fitted strips. HELP PLEASE! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01BFDD1A.583ACD00-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Jun 23 16:07:10 2000 e5NL79G13935 Subject: Lathe I need some advice about a lathe purchase. The archives have been helpfulbut I have a question not addressed there (unless I missed it). I intend touse the lathe only for ferrule station prep, ferrule dressing and perhapscork handle turning. I may someday want to do more ambitious things, maybeeven make ferrules, but if that happens I'll buy a really fine lathe. What Ineed now is the least expensive lathe that can handle these basic tasks. Isee wood lathes at places like Harborfreight for as little as $100-$130. Ieven see $30 rigs for using a power drill to run a bench-mounted "lathe".You lathe experts out there, what's your advice about the minimalrequirements for my needs? Thanks in advance! Barry from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jun 23 16:31:58 2000 e5NLVvG14812 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:31:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe I'd look for a used 6" Atlas, or Craftsman (Atlas), as they can often befound very cheap. Still they are better than these ???? imports, in mostcases. Often $200 or less ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Lathe I need some advice about a lathe purchase. The archives have been helpfulbut I have a question not addressed there (unless I missed it). I intendtouse the lathe only for ferrule station prep, ferrule dressing and perhapscork handle turning. I may someday want to do more ambitious things,maybeeven make ferrules, but if that happens I'll buy a really fine lathe. WhatIneed now is the least expensive lathe that can handle these basic tasks. Isee wood lathes at places like Harborfreight for as little as $100-$130. Ieven see $30 rigs for using a power drill to run a bench-mounted "lathe".You lathe experts out there, what's your advice about the minimalrequirements for my needs? Thanks in advance! Barry from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jun 23 18:50:39 2000 e5NNodG17013 Subject: Re: Lathe Barry,I would stay away from the wood lathes. You want a metalcutting lathe. A small uni-mat lathe or something on that ideawould be better than a wood lathe. Check around with your localmachine shops. I've found that many of them have older lathesthat they don't use any more and can be had very cheap. Check them out. Dave Le Clair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Fri Jun 23 19:56:32 2000 e5O0uWG17711 Subject: Taper request Hi, I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a medium/moderateaction (bends approximately 1/2 way on a 30ft cast when loaded) rod that is a 7ft, 3-piece, 4wt? If you have a good taper for this I'd appreciate it or if you know a good way to convert a 2-piece taper into 3-piece I'd love to hear it as well (used Hexrod and it doesn't change thedimensions).Thanks. Bill Walters from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jun 23 19:58:00 2000 e5O0vxG17815 Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:57:55 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Lathe Barry, everything you mention, except making ferrules can be donewith asimple home made lathe! If you need to know more just ask and I'll send youinfo. Shawn Pineo "Kling, Barry W." wrote: I need some advice about a lathe purchase. The archives have been helpfulbut I have a question not addressed there (unless I missed it). I intend touse the lathe only for ferrule station prep, ferrule dressing and perhapscork handle turning. I may someday want to do more ambitious things,maybeeven make ferrules, but if that happens I'll buy a really fine lathe. What Ineed now is the least expensive lathe that can handle these basic tasks. Isee wood lathes at places like Harborfreight for as little as $100-$130. Ieven see $30 rigs for using a power drill to run a bench-mounted "lathe".You lathe experts out there, what's your advice about the minimalrequirements for my needs? Thanks in advance! Barry from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jun 23 20:05:29 2000 e5O15SG18002 Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:05:24 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Help identifying Penta Rod!!!! boundary="------------D2B65553DF02A3926906A73F" --------------D2B65553DF02A3926906A73F Bob,is the tip with the bridged tip top shorter than the other tip?? Also there seems to be a lot of green corrosion, are you sour theferrules are nickel silver??Stop buying all these rods Bob, leave some for guys likeme!!!!LOL Shawn Pineo Bob Nunley wrote: OK List, I have just aquired this penta rod, and know nothing aboutit. Please check out the pictures and description of itathttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/penta.htmand let me know what youthink it is. It appears to be a very good quality rod as far as thecane work itself goes. NOT glued with resourcinol is all I can say,as there is no faint purple line on the seams, but this rod hardly hasa sign of a glue line on it. VERY good craftsmanship, finely fittedstrips. HELP PLEASE! Thanks in advance,Bob --------------D2B65553DF02A3926906A73F Bob, bridgedtip top shorter than the other tip??Also there seems to be a lot of green corrosion, are you sour theferrulesare nickel silver?? theserods Bob, leave some for guys like me!!!!LOL Shawn PineoBob Nunley wrote: out the pictures and description of it athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/penta.htmand is all I can say, as there is no faint purple line on the seams, but this advance,Bob --------------D2B65553DF02A3926906A73F-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jun 23 20:23:37 2000 e5O1NaG18261 Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:23:32 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Taper request Bill,Leonard Model 50 or a Sir D as a 7'0" 4wt 3 pc. Shawn Pineo Bill Walters wrote: Hi, I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a medium/moderateaction (bends approximately 1/2 way on a 30ft cast when loaded) rod that is a 7ft, 3-piece, 4wt? If you have a good taper for this I'd appreciate it or if you know a good way to convert a 2-piece taper into 3-piece I'd love to hear it as well (used Hexrod and it doesn't change thedimensions).Thanks. Bill Walters from Davidhray1@aol.com Fri Jun 23 22:05:02 2000 e5O351G19613 Subject: unsubscribe rodmakers from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Jun 23 22:33:46 2000 e5O3XjG20055 Subject: Re: Lathe Barry,I have Harbor Freights little metal lathe. Around $350.00. I have used it for everything you describe except making ferrules. There were some postings about a year and a half ago as I recall about this lathe and a few guys were using them to make ferrules. They seemed happy with the results. I have looked (not very hard!) for an Atlas or South Bend that was in my price range with no success. If you're not in a big hurry, keep looking. If you are in a rush, take a look at HF's little lathe. It came out of the box pretty true and did not need much tinkering with. My only warning is you get what you pay for. All the gearing seems to be plastic, but has not been a problem for me so far. I've had mine for about 3 or 4 years. My big complaint is the length of the bed. A little longer would be nice. Check out Sherline also.Mike from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Jun 23 22:36:44 2000 e5O3ahG20191 Subject: Re: Taper request The Hardy "Marvel" fits your description of what you want. Its a 3 piece#3/4 line rod with a full flex action. I've got the specs around heresome place if you want them. ----------From: Bill Walters Subject: Taper requestDate: Friday, June 23, 2000 9:00 PM Hi, I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a medium/moderateaction (bends approximately 1/2 way on a 30ft cast when loaded) rod that is a 7ft, 3-piece, 4wt? If you have a good taper for this I'd appreciate it or if you know a good way to convert a 2-piece taper into 3-piece I'd love to hear it as well (used Hexrod and it doesn't change thedimensions).Thanks. Bill Walters from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jun 24 00:50:17 2000 e5O5oGG22029 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:45:25 -0500 Subject: PHY taper type="multipart/alternative";boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_0180_01BFDD75.DF9BB920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0180_01BFDD75.DF9BB920 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0181_01BFDD75.DF9BB920" ------=_NextPart_001_0181_01BFDD75.DF9BB920 Does anyone have the taper for a PHY Special 3/2, 8 1/2 foot, 5/6 wt., =PHY Special. I just bought one on eBay that has the mid missing and = TIA,Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_0181_01BFDD75.DF9BB920 = TIA,Bob = Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm= ------=_NextPart_001_0181_01BFDD75.DF9BB920-- ------=_NextPart_000_0180_01BFDD75.DF9BB920 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------=_NextPart_000_0180_01BFDD75.DF9BB920-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jun 24 00:51:43 2000 e5O5pgG22135 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:46:57 -0500 Subject: Fw: PHY taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0196_01BFDD76.1813E660" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0196_01BFDD76.1813E660 Does anyone have the taper for a PHY Special 3/2, 8 1/2 foot, 5/6 wt., =PHY Special. I just bought one on eBay that has the mid missing and = TIA,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0196_01BFDD76.1813E660 = TIA,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0196_01BFDD76.1813E660-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jun 24 04:09:52 2000 e5O99qG23561 (204.186.33.18) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: PHY taper Hi Bob, So your the guy that outbid me on that rod. Hope it turns outto be a Montague (just kidding!). Good Luck, Marty Does anyone have the taper for a PHY Special 3/2, 8 1/2 foot, 5/6wt., PHY Special. I just bought one on eBay that has the mid missingand would like to make a new mid for it without guessing. TIA,Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm[Image] from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Jun 24 06:55:05 2000 e5OBt3G24837 Subject: Tools boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDDA1.09A5D7C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDDA1.09A5D7C0 I am looking for a good online out let for tools like dial indicators =and base mounts for measuring on metal planing forms. I have found a few =but this seems like a good outlet for this type of information. If this =question goes beyond the boundaries of this list please let me know. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDDA1.09A5D7C0 I am looking for a good online out let for tools like dial indicators = base mounts for measuring on metal planing forms. I have found a few but = seems like a good outlet for this type of information. If this question = beyond the boundaries of this list please let me =know. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFDDA1.09A5D7C0-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jun 24 08:57:47 2000 e5ODvkG27238 Sat, 24 Jun 2000 06:57:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Tools Ronnie,There are several good sources for tools online. JerryFoster's "Rodmakers" page has quite a few listed. Trylooking at the tools section there for links at:http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.htmlYour question is perfect for this list. One of the mainreasons this list exists is so that we can share informationon how to get started.Perhaps sharing a few more specifics might help usanswer your question more succinctly. Are you looking fortop of the line tools? If so, Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, andMitutoyo all make good stuff. If you're looking forinexpensive yet very functional stuff, then most of theimports work well. I bought a digital 4" caliper from LeaValley tools that I like a lot. The dial indicator base from Enco does a good job for about $12. When it comes tothe 60* points for the indicator, stay with Starrett.Anything else probably will not be a true 60*.Hope this helps. Let us know how we can help further. Harry Boyd--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ "Ronnie L. Rees" wrote: I am looking for a good online out let for tools likedial indicators and base mounts for measuring on metalplaning forms. I have found a few but this seems like agood outlet for this type of information. If this questiongoes beyond the boundaries of this list please let meknow. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jun 24 10:13:02 2000 e5OFD1G27878 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:14:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Tools I've get 99% of all my machine tools from www.traverstool.com They seldomback order, and have the best prices I have found. Their selection is farbetter than most. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tools I am looking for a good online out let for tools like dial indicators andbase mounts for measuring on metal planing forms. I have found a few butthis seems like a good outlet for this type of information. If this questiongoes beyond the boundaries of this list please let me know. from leroyt@involved.com Sat Jun 24 10:45:08 2000 e5OFj7G28419 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:44:57 -0700 Subject: RE: Lathe Importance: Normal Check out E-BAY, seems as if they always have small lathes for sale.There is also TAIG lathe and Mini-lathe user groups, that offersimprovements you can make to the lathes. Have had both a Sherline and aTAIGand now own a 8' Wade.Leroy...... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 2:07 PM Subject: Lathe I need some advice about a lathe purchase. The archives have been helpfulbut I have a question not addressed there (unless I missed it). Iintend touse the lathe only for ferrule station prep, ferrule dressing and perhapscork handle turning. I may someday want to do more ambitious things,maybeeven make ferrules, but if that happens I'll buy a really finelathe. What Ineed now is the least expensive lathe that can handle these basic tasks. Isee wood lathes at places like Harborfreight for as little as $100-$130. Ieven see $30 rigs for using a power drill to run a bench-mounted "lathe".You lathe experts out there, what's your advice about the minimalrequirements for my needs? Thanks in advance! Barry from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Jun 24 17:32:00 2000 e5OMVxG02588 4B7D0BEDF Subject: Marvel Rod Several people have asked me to post the dimensions of the Hardy "Marvel"rod. Hardy listed this rod at 2 3/4 oz. and advertised it as the worldslightest practical fishing rod. The rod has a very light full, flexingaction. I used a #4 line on mine.I first measured this rod in 1980 over varnish. A year later I bought therod, stripped it, and remeasured over the cane. The forms I was using inthose days were 6" centres, before the Garrison book popularized 5"centres. Here are the dimensions.0 .0683" .0746" .o8812" .10718" .12324' .13530" .15236" .16942" .18348" .19554" .20860" .21866" .24172" .26278" .28582" .298 in front of cork grip from oakmere@carol.net Sat Jun 24 19:27:22 2000 e5P0RLG03700 Subject: RE: Lathes Hi Barry: I purchased last year a woodworking bench lathe from Harborfreight forabout (if I remember) $150. It is made in China. I is ok and works. This isthe same one that Sears Roebuck sells for about $250. I purchased a bench from Sears and it made into a useful wood turning lathe station in my shop- it is the same one Sears sells for their lathe. You will need to purchasea chuck and other items for the lathe to be useful. I use mine to turn corkhandles and work ends on rods. I ended up with a 4 point chuck, but Isuggest you purchase a 3 point chuck which requires less adjustment (butmy4 point works ok and it is more useful in chucking up square pieces of workpieces to turn wood rod handles). I just turned a cork handle today for a"plastic" (sorry guys) rod I am building. I felt the same way you did, Idid not want to search for a used metal working lathe at the time, norspend the extra $ for a new metal working lathe. Anyway, it seems to do what I want it to do and works ok. It is not aproduction daily used lathe, so it should last for what I do for now. Justmy 2 cents. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from truckin@deltech.net Sat Jun 24 20:21:44 2000 e5P1LhG04270 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-55121U2500L250S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:21:44 -0500 Subject: fishing trip I will be leaving on an extended fly fishing trip out to Utah and beyondsoon. Anybody have any experience in that area and want to clue me inon rivers, streams etc. that would be in the "don't miss " category? from dblanken@rica.net Sun Jun 25 09:06:09 2000 e5PE69G10860 Subject: St Vrain Special Tim, don't know if I missed it, but, did you ever decide to post the taper meet Geirach? from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Jun 25 11:38:31 2000 e5PGcUG12315 Subject: Dale Clemmens phone or URL I was hoping somebody might be able to tell me how to get in touch with Dale Clemmens.I know it's blown by on the list before, but I couldn't find it in the archive. Thanks in advance, Rob Hoffhines from D2466@aol.com Sun Jun 25 12:31:17 2000 e5PHVGG13023 Subject: Unsubscribe Rodmakers from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 25 13:01:59 2000 e5PI1wG13395 Subject: Granger taper question Hi,Found the following taper in the archives and was wondering if anyoneknows if this is the legendary Granger, 3pc, 7 1/2? Am very interestedin doing the Granger 3pc taper but need to know if this is a3pc before I start on this. Thanks. Fri Feb 11 12:45:25 2000From:Ed HartzellSubject:Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Darrell : from the Planing Form # 50 the numbers for Granger Special 7"6"0 0685 08310 09815 11520 13225 14530 16035 17640 18945 20150 21855 23460 24565 25870 27175 28380 33185 33190 331 from if6were9@bellsouth.net Sun Jun 25 15:58:21 2000 e5PKwKG15231 Subject: Re: Dale Clemmens phone or URL I have a bookmark for Dale at www.clemenstackle.com, but I could not get aconnection when I tried it today. A Yahoo search returned the same URL(whichalso failed to connect), so hopefully it's just excess network traffic (or mylack of computer skills) that's the problem. If you don't have any luck withthe URL, let me know and I'll see if I can find an old catalog for the phonenumber. Good luck and happy hunting. Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: I was hoping somebody might be able to tell me how to get in touch withDaleClemmens.I know it's blown by on the list before, but I couldn't find it in thearchive. Thanks in advance, Rob Hoffhines from jhewitt@cmn.net Sun Jun 25 17:13:43 2000 e5PMDgG16049 Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:08:08 -0600 Subject: Re: fishing trip Don't miss the Green River below the Flaming Gorge dam in Utah. It isDisneyland for flyfishers.John "Arledge, James" wrote: I will be leaving on an extended fly fishing trip out to Utah and beyondsoon. Anybody have any experience in that area and want to clue me inon rivers, streams etc. that would be in the "don't miss " category? from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jun 25 20:02:51 2000 e5Q12oG17682 SAA18199; Subject: Re: Granger taper question It is a 3 piece. The 7' grangers were the only 2 piece rods. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Granger taper question Hi,Found the following taper in the archives and was wondering if anyoneknows if this is the legendary Granger, 3pc, 7 1/2? Am very interestedin doing the Granger 3pc taper but need to know if this is a3pc before I start on this. Thanks. Date:Fri Feb 11 12:45:25 2000From:Ed HartzellSubject:Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Darrell : from the Planing Form # 50 the numbers for Granger Special 7"6"0 0685 08310 09815 11520 13225 14530 16035 17640 18945 20150 21855 23460 24565 25870 27175 28380 33185 33190 331 from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jun 25 20:07:20 2000 e5Q17KG17829 (204.186.33.96) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Granger taper question Hi Bill, If it's Granger and 71/2' it's 3 pc. The only 2 pc. they madeis 7'. Marty Hi,Found the following taper in the archives and was wondering if anyoneknows if this is the legendary Granger, 3pc, 7 1/2? Am very interestedin doing the Granger 3pc taper but need to know if this is a3pc before I start on this. Thanks. Date:Fri Feb 11 12:45:25 2000From:Ed HartzellSubject:Re: Granger Special 7 1/2" taper needed Darrell : from the Planing Form # 50 the numbers for Granger Special 7"6"0 0685 08310 09815 11520 13225 14530 16035 17640 18945 20150 21855 23460 24565 25870 27175 28380 33185 33190 331 from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jun 25 20:16:29 2000 e5Q1GTG18093 (204.186.33.96) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Dale Clemmens phone or URL Clemens phone # is 610-395-5119. Marty I have a bookmark for Dale at www.clemenstackle.com, but I could not getaconnection when I tried it today. A Yahoo search returned the same URL(whichalso failed to connect), so hopefully it's just excess network traffic (or mylack of computer skills) that's the problem. If you don't have any luck withthe URL, let me know and I'll see if I can find an old catalog for the phonenumber. Good luck and happy hunting. Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: I was hoping somebody might be able to tell me how to get in touch withDaleClemmens.I know it's blown by on the list before, but I couldn't find it in thearchive. Thanks in advance, Rob Hoffhines from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Jun 26 05:42:17 2000 e5QAgGG23700 Subject: Re: Dale Clemmens phone or URL Rob:1999 Catalog says (610) 395-5119. Fax 398-2580.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Dale Clemmens phone or URL I was hoping somebody might be able to tell me how to get in touch withDaleClemmens.I know it's blown by on the list before, but I couldn't find it in thearchive. Thanks in advance, Rob Hoffhines from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Jun 26 05:52:49 2000 e5QAqmG23900 Subject: Fw: Dale Clemmens phone or URL Forgot to add that a recent invoice lists email addy as:dfrench@clemenstackle.comEd-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Dale Clemmens phone or URL Rob:1999 Catalog says (610) 395-5119. Fax 398-2580.Ed-----Original Message-----From: Nodewrrior@aol.com Date: Sunday, June 25, 2000 11:38 AMSubject: Dale Clemmens phone or URL I was hoping somebody might be able to tell me how to get in touch withDaleClemmens.I know it's blown by on the list before, but I couldn't find it in thearchive. Thanks in advance, Rob Hoffhines from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Mon Jun 26 06:52:20 2000 e5QBqJG24680 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:52:21 EDT Subject: Nodeless Question Have a question about splicing ? Has anyone tried to build a rod usingjust a short mitre splice and then creating a rod with a conventionalstagger of the splices ? If so what was the outcome ? Jim T from CCGGLOBAL@aol.com Mon Jun 26 10:58:35 2000 e5QFwYG02121 Subject: GrayRock 00 - Great Experience Rodmakers: I want to thank all of you who attended the GrayRock 00gathering in Grayling Michigan, and I highly recommend attending these gatherings to all. Everyone was very helpful, freely sharing of information and geniunely dedicated to the art of Rodmaking. It was wonderful for me to hear Harold Demarest talk about Bamboo, Reed Curry talk about Silk Lines and their care, Alan Medved's demonstration of his beveler, and all of the rods and rodmakers, the casting, and to be in the midst of all this along side of the Ausable River, It just doesn't get any better. I just wish I had more time to stay longer. In closing, Thanks to Wayne for all of his advice, guidance, and patience. A Great Experience !. Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from truckin@deltech.net Mon Jun 26 15:44:34 2000 e5QKiXG11390 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-55121U2500L250S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:44:34 -0500 Subject: fishing trip To all who sent guidepointsfor a western fishing trip.... thank you somuch... will file a report upon return at end of summer. from KiAyker@aol.com Mon Jun 26 19:15:32 2000 e5R0FVG16751 Subject: New to the list Hi, I'm new to this list and new to flyfishing (although I've been an avid fisherman in one way or another my entire life). I've been collecting bamboo rod "parts" on ebay for a while now with the intent to try to restore a couple of rods for my own use. I probably have about a million questions I'd like to throw out to you folks if your willing to help out a beginner. Just to get the ball rolling I'd like to ask if there is a way to determine a rod's line weight if the rod is not marked, and one is something less then an experienced caster? Thanks, ScottSo.Cal. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jun 26 19:29:21 2000 e5R0TLG17077 Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:29:17 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: New to the list Scott,welcome to the list! You will find this place a source of greatknowledge (sometimes useless babble), camaraderie (or fighting) and yeseven theoccasional bit of humor (sometimes dry)!There are some indicators about line weight of a rod, but if you postthe particulars of your rod it sometimes makes it a little easier for us tohelp. Things like ferrule size, rod length, # of pieces, makers name, model,thread color, and sometimes even the taper make it easier to determine justwhata rod is. Shawn Pineo KiAyker@aol.com wrote: Hi, I'm new to this list and new to flyfishing (although I've been an avidfisherman in one way or another my entire life). I've been collecting bamboorod "parts" on ebay for a while now with the intent to try to restore acouple of rods for my own use. I probably have about a million questions I'dlike to throw out to you folks if your willing to help out a beginner.Just to get the ball rolling I'd like to ask if there is a way todetermine a rod's line weight if the rod is not marked, and one is somethingless then an experienced caster? Thanks, ScottSo.Cal. from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jun 26 19:40:16 2000 e5R0eFG17315 (204.186.211.8) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: New to the list Hi Scott, Welcome aboard! The best way is to try different lines on arod and see which works best. On older bamboo trout rods (especiallyproduction) the line will be between a #4 - #7. If you have wiggled alotof caneyou can tell just by feeling it without a line. I guess there isa coralation between actual wt. in .oz and line wieight but I don't knowit. Marty Hi, I'm new to this list and new to flyfishing (although I've been an avidfisherman in one way or another my entire life). I've been collecting bamboorod "parts" on ebay for a while now with the intent to try to restore acouple of rods for my own use. I probably have about a million questions I'dlike to throw out to you folks if your willing to help out a beginner.Just to get the ball rolling I'd like to ask if there is a way todetermine a rod's line weight if the rod is not marked, and one is somethingless then an experienced caster? Thanks, ScottSo.Cal. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Jun 26 19:46:59 2000 e5R0kxG17518 Subject: RE; new to the list boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFDFAF.DF37A520" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFDFAF.DF37A520 Scott,Listen to Shawn. What he says works with almost all rods except mine. My =rod weights I have to determine by how well they hold up the tomatos !! =8^) Welcome to the List, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFDFAF.DF37A520 Scott,Listen to Shawn. What he says works = rods except mine. My rod weights I have to determine by how well they = Welcome to the List, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFDFAF.DF37A520-- from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jun 26 20:03:26 2000 e5R13PG17888 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: New to the list Hi Scott (and list):Welcome.To determine line weight, you can do a several things. Here's a brainstorm so don't pick me apart too badly, guys.1. Bring the rod down to the local fly shop where they have reels loaded with various line weights. Let the experts there help.2, Ferrule size will often give you a good clue. For example, I am usually thinking in a two piece rod, 12/64-13/64 is the low and high range of a 4 wt. (This is tough) In a three piece, which many old rods are, I haven't a clue.3. Use deflection charts like in Ray Gould's fantastic book. It seems like a lot of thinking to do, but It's interesting regardless to look at the great charts he has.4. Get some catalogs (Like Dick Spurr's, Len Codella's, or online ones). Match your rod to an identical model listed and see what they say. You are not going to learn much by doing what my friend calls the Kmart wiggle. You really need to cast the rod. I think a lot of people are rather picky when it comes to line size. Most cane rods can throw a variety of line weights and tapers with ease. It's a matter of feel. I recently gave a friend a 7' 4wt. that I just finished, and we spent about an hour casting the rod and going through all the various lines we had. WF, TT, DT. silk lines, etc... He finally said the Cortland 333 4DT was the best. I agreed that it felt nice. When he fished the rod for the first few times his opinion changed. Now, he likes the Triangle Taper 3/4 for general fishing, and the 4DT for small streams. Is he crazy, or is this just a facet of the game? Yes. (to both)If you provide the list with some makes and models, we can probably give you a ball park guess as to where to begin. Just don't start off testing with your 9 wt. line on the first rod. Good luck.Best regards,Bob Just to get the ball rolling I'd like to ask if there is a way todetermine a rod's line weight if the rod is not marked, and one is somethingless then an experienced caster? Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jun 26 20:18:20 2000 e5R1IJG18203 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:19:20 -0500 Subject: Re: New to the list Once you get the basics of fly casting down, and learn to both wait for theback cast to let you know its reached far enough, and keeping it high, thenyou'll be able to tell when a rod is "loaded" properly. Since the line justtakes the lure along for the ride, it's the line that does the casting. Theweight of a certain number of feet, past the tip that loads nicely, tellsyou what the rod's rating is. I think McClane's Fishing Encyclopedia givesthese details. So many of the rods on eBay are older production versions, and 9' +. Manyare "bass" action, and take a #7, or #8 line. I'd suggest you get Sinclair'sbook on restoration as he gives many details on the numbering systems, andtheir actions. Also the Rodmakers' web site has many tapers listed in thearchives. This is a start anyway. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: New to the list Hi, I'm new to this list and new to flyfishing (although I've been an avidfisherman in one way or another my entire life). I've been collectingbamboorod "parts" on ebay for a while now with the intent to try to restore acouple of rods for my own use. I probably have about a million questionsI'dlike to throw out to you folks if your willing to help out a beginner.Just to get the ball rolling I'd like to ask if there is a way todetermine a rod's line weight if the rod is not marked, and one issomethingless then an experienced caster? Thanks, ScottSo.Cal. from harry37@ipa.net Mon Jun 26 20:41:20 2000 e5R1fJG18660 Subject: Maker's Rod Was the raffle drawn? from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jun 26 22:03:32 2000 e5R33VG19600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:58:44 -0500 Subject: Re: New to the list Scott,Welcome to the list and we hope we can be of help when you need it.It's a good place with a lot of knowledgable makers that are pretty freewith what was once considered proprietary info.As for line weight of a rod. Best way I know to figure it out, wasmentioned in one of the responses. Just cast a lot of different weightlines and different style lines (DT, WF, Triangle Tapers, etc) until youfind the one that performs best on the rod. Sometimes you'll get a coupleof lines that work good on one rod. Like it might cast a 5dt really well,and also work good with a 3/4TT or a 4/5TT. Just keep casting til you findthe line that works best on a rod for you. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: New to the list Hi, I'm new to this list and new to flyfishing (although I've been an avidfisherman in one way or another my entire life). I've been collectingbamboorod "parts" on ebay for a while now with the intent to try to restore acouple of rods for my own use. I probably have about a million questionsI'dlike to throw out to you folks if your willing to help out a beginner.Just to get the ball rolling I'd like to ask if there is a way todetermine a rod's line weight if the rod is not marked, and one issomethingless then an experienced caster? Thanks, ScottSo.Cal. from bh887@lafn.org Mon Jun 26 22:12:33 2000 e5R3CXG19819 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Identification Help boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFDFAB.59027C40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFDFAB.59027C40 Hi List! Wondering if any (or all) of you can help me identifying a rod I just =acquired. I haven't had a chance to mike the taper yet. It is a three =piece 9' rod. Cork grip is cigar shaped, ferrules are not tapered or =stepped. The stripper is agate (red), no hookkeeper, down locking reel =seat of some black plastic material, reel foot keeper is screwed to reel =seat, workmanship not too bad. Markings are in black ink, read toward =ferrule, and read 216, Original, Noris, 216, Noris, Stabil (I think, =the last word could also be Staleil. In both places the word Noris has =quotation marks, one at the bottom of the line and the last one at the =top of the line as we write it in English. Have a feeling the rod is =foreign, but any hints you have would be more than welcome. Workmanship =is acceptable, but by no means spectacular. Ideas, fellas? Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFDFAB.59027C40 Hi List! Wondering if any (or all) of you can help me identifying a rod I = reel seat of some black plastic material, reel foot keeper is screwed to = quotation marks, one at the bottom of the line and the last one at the = Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFDFAB.59027C40-- from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Mon Jun 26 22:35:43 2000 e5R3ZgG20441 Subject: Re: New to the list Date sent: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:14:29 EDTSubject: New to the list Hi,if your willingto help out a beginner. Scott, This is what this list is all about. I too am new to cane building (previous pl@stic) and found everyone here to be very helpful and most kind. Ask away you will learn all you need to know and more. Welcome aboard!JimDraggin' a nymph in NW Montana from saweiss@flash.net Mon Jun 26 23:57:49 2000 e5R4vlG21395 Subject: Re: New to the list Scott,This is an area where one has to pay his dues. Learn how to cast well byreading about it, looking at videos, maybe taking a couple of lessons, andabove all, practice. 20-minute practice sessions three times a week will bethe best thing you can do. Cast several rods of different length and weight,if you can get your hands on them. One thing that good casters have incommon is that they have cast a lot and keep in practice. I bet that in sixmonths you will wonder why you ever asked the question.Steve Hi, I'm new to this list and new to flyfishing (although I've been an avidfisherman in one way or another my entire life). I've been collectingbamboorod "parts" on ebay for a while now with the intent to try to restore acouple of rods for my own use. I probably have about a million questionsI'dlike to throw out to you folks if your willing to help out a beginner.Just to get the ball rolling I'd like to ask if there is a way todetermine a rod's line weight if the rod is not marked, and one issomethingless then an experienced caster? Thanks, ScottSo.Cal. from KiAyker@aol.com Tue Jun 27 06:54:25 2000 e5RBsOG25119 Subject: Re: New to the list First of all let me thank all of you for the warm welcome I received to this list. Quite frankly, I was expecting something a little less due to the snobbish reputation fly fishermen seem to have :-)OK, so it would seem from general consensus that what I need to do is cast a bunch of different lines to learn what a rod likes. I suppose I can handle that. What most of you didn't seem to catch is that I am not trying to from existing parts. You know, I've got a couple of tips and bases from a three piece rod that had the mid section badly damaged; and I've got a couple of bases and mid sections that have lost their tips, and so on. I looked into building a rod from scratch, but was intimidated by the forms and ovens and such required. Perhaps once I've learned a little more about this stuff I will be more prepared to make that leap.In the meantime, I have an old 9' bamboo rod that was given to my father more then fifty years ago and never used. I intend to hang it on the wall as a sort of heirloom, but I wanted it to catch a couple fish first (it's just not proper to retire a virgin rod). When I took it to the fly shop to have them look at it and make sure I wasn't destroying any collector value it might have I asked them about the two tips and was told that each handled a different weight line. Now I have to ask, if each tip is for a different weight line, then can I surmise that it is the top third of a flyrod that determines the rod's weight? If so, then what function does the bottom two-thirds have? According to the literature I've read I would have to guess that the bottom certainly determines the rod's action, i.e., fast, medium or slow. Is that all? If this is the case then I shouldn't have any problem mixing and matching sections from different rods to try and complete awhole one should I?I know, I've got a lot of questions, but this whole business of fly fishing, and especially bamboo rods fascinates me. Many thanks again, ScottSo.Cal. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jun 27 07:28:52 2000 e5RCSoG25677 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:27:24 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: RE: New to the list Hi Scott,in my most humble opinion it's neither the butt, mid or tipsection that determines the action of a rod. It's the combination of allthree working in harmony that puts the whole act together. I guess what I'mtrying to say is that you can't just stick sections from different rodstogether and expect them to work to any reasonable degree. It's notimpossible but it is extremely improbable. Would you put four differentsized wheels on your car just because they're all round and expect it tohandle like the brochure says it should? Ipso facto, there is a very fineline separating a good bamboo fly rod from a tomato stake.Just throw caution to the wind and make your own rod from scratch.If you build nodeless you can use the oven in your kitchen and you can put aset of wooden forms together on a pretty low stress Sunday. With verylittle outlay over a reasonable period of time you can build a perfectlygood rod and have one hell of a lot of fun. If you don't wish to continueafter that first rod, at least you won't be broke but may God have mercy onyour soul (that one's for you Harry). Welcome aboard Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New to the list First of all let me thank all of you for the warm welcome I received to this list. Quite frankly, I was expecting something a little less due to the snobbish reputation fly fishermen seem to have :-)OK, so it would seem from general consensus that what I need to do iscast a bunch of different lines to learn what a rod likes. I suppose I can handle that. What most of you didn't seem to catch is that I am not trying to from existing parts. You know, I've got a couple of tips and bases from a three piece rod that had the mid section badly damaged; and I've got acouple of bases and mid sections that have lost their tips, and so on. I lookedinto building a rod from scratch, but was intimidated by the forms and ovens and such required. Perhaps once I've learned a little more about this stuff I will be more prepared to make that leap.In the meantime, I have an old 9' bamboo rod that was given to my father more then fifty years ago and never used. I intend to hang it on the wall as a sort of heirloom, but I wanted it to catch a couple fish first (it's just not proper to retire a virgin rod). When I took it to the fly shop to have them look at it and make sure I wasn't destroying any collector value it might have I asked them about the two tips and was told that each handled a different weight line. Now I have to ask, if each tip is for a different weight line, then can I surmise that it is the top third of a flyrod that determines the rod's weight? If so, then what function does the bottom two-thirds have? According to the literature I've read I would have to guess that the bottom certainly determines the rod's action, i.e., fast, medium or slow. Is that all? If this is the case then I shouldn't have any problem mixing and matching sections from different rods to try and complete awhole one should I?I know, I've got a lot of questions, but this whole business of fly fishing, and especially bamboo rods fascinates me. Many thanks again, ScottSo.Cal. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 27 08:11:28 2000 e5RDBRG26975 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:12:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Identification Help I've not heard of a Noris, but could the name possibly be Stabilt ? Are theferrules N.S., or plated brass ? Rolled or machined welts ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Identification Help Hi List! Wondering if any (or all) of you can help me identifying a rod I justacquired. I haven't had a chance to mike the taper yet. It is a threepiece 9' rod. Cork grip is cigar shaped, ferrules are not tapered orstepped. The stripper is agate (red), no hookkeeper, down locking reelseat of some black plastic material, reel foot keeper is screwed to reelseat, workmanship not too bad. Markings are in black ink, read towardferrule, and read 216, Original, Noris, 216, Noris, Stabil (I think, thelast word could also be Staleil. In both places the word Noris hasquotation marks, one at the bottom of the line and the last one at the topof the line as we write it in English. Have a feeling the rod is foreign,but any hints you have would be more than welcome. Workmanship isacceptable, but by no means spectacular. Ideas, fellas? Lee from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 27 08:39:04 2000 e5RDd4G28051 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:38:24 -0500 Subject: Re: New to the list Two different tips doesn't HAVE to mean different line sizes. One could be adry fly action, and the other for nymphs. The dry fly tip will be a bitfaster, and the other slower, since the fly doesn't float. But, they mayneed the same size line. The reason I suggested Sinclair's book, is that he explains a great dealabout refurbishing cane rods, as well as about actions. It's not complete,but it's certainly got gobs of useful info, for what you are planning.There's even some tips for making a shorter rod from just a mid and tipsection of a 3 - pc. ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New to the list First of all let me thank all of you for the warm welcome I received tothis list. Quite frankly, I was expecting something a little less due tothesnobbish reputation fly fishermen seem to have :-)OK, so it would seem from general consensus that what I need to do iscasta bunch of different lines to learn what a rod likes. I suppose I canhandlethat. What most of you didn't seem to catch is that I am not trying to two from existing parts. You know, I've got a couple of tips and bases from athree piece rod that had the mid section badly damaged; and I've got acoupleof bases and mid sections that have lost their tips, and so on. I lookedintobuilding a rod from scratch, but was intimidated by the forms and ovensandsuch required. Perhaps once I've learned a little more about this stuff Iwill be more prepared to make that leap.In the meantime, I have an old 9' bamboo rod that was given to myfathermore then fifty years ago and never used. I intend to hang it on the wallasa sort of heirloom, but I wanted it to catch a couple fish first (it'sjustnot proper to retire a virgin rod). When I took it to the fly shop to havethem look at it and make sure I wasn't destroying any collector value itmight have I asked them about the two tips and was told that each handledadifferent weight line. Now I have to ask, if each tip is for a differentweight line, then can I surmise that it is the top third of a flyrod thatdetermines the rod's weight? If so, then what function does the bottomtwo-thirds have? According to the literature I've read I would have toguessthat the bottom certainly determines the rod's action, i.e., fast, mediumorslow. Is that all? If this is the case then I shouldn't have any problemmixing and matching sections from different rods to try and complete awholeone should I?I know, I've got a lot of questions, but this whole business of flyfishing, and especially bamboo rods fascinates me. Many thanks again, ScottSo.Cal. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jun 27 08:41:33 2000 e5RDfWG28204 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:36:44 -0500 Subject: Re: New to the list Scott,I may be wrong on this, but I believe there are a few out there who makewhat they call Banty rods from the good mids and tips of old rods. The keyis the quality of the rod. If the rod was of low quality, when new (andthere are a LOT of those out there) then the 6' rod you make from a 9footeris also going to be low quality.The tips of a rod alone don't determine the line weight of the rod.Usually when two tips were made for production rods, they were exactly thesame. There are a few exceptions, like the Paul Young rods that sometimescame with a Wet and a Dry tip, but for the most part, extra tips are justthat... "extra" tips. Line weight is determined along the entire lenght ofthe rod, or at least in the rods action length. When you start mixingbutts, mids and tips of different rods, there's a pretty low probability ofcoming up with a fishable rod. If you want to pursue this, then I wouldthink the best bet would be to strip the sections, take a micrometer,measure and graph each section and see which ones "flow" together on achart. If you'll look on the rodmakers page, you can see a mulitude oftapers and looking at the dimensions for different weight rods, I think youcan see what I'm talking about. You never know, you may happen along a tipand a mid that go together great and make a fine casting rod, however,rodmaking is different. To me (I'm sure some will disagree, but keep inmind this is my opinion only) if you are going to assemble rods from oldparts rods, then you are doing the most labor intensive part of rodmaking.I can split, straighten, bevel, taper and glue up a rod in a very shortperiod of time. Most of my time is spent AFTER the blank is finished(sanding, fitting ferrules, wrapping, varnishing, etc), so building partsrods you are still going to do what I consider the most tedious part of thework of rodmaking. It's like Mike Roberts said, you can build a set ofwooden forms for almost NO cost, so just put a set together and give it ashot. You don't HAVE to have a lathe, you don't HAVE to have a binder (Iknow there are a few on the list that hand bind and don't even own abinder), you don't HAVE to have a set of metal forms, etc. You can do thisat a very low cost at first to see if you like it or not. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New to the list First of all let me thank all of you for the warm welcome I received tothis list. Quite frankly, I was expecting something a little less due tothesnobbish reputation fly fishermen seem to have :-)OK, so it would seem from general consensus that what I need to do iscasta bunch of different lines to learn what a rod likes. I suppose I canhandlethat. What most of you didn't seem to catch is that I am not trying to from existing parts. You know, I've got a couple of tips and bases from athree piece rod that had the mid section badly damaged; and I've got acoupleof bases and mid sections that have lost their tips, and so on. I lookedintobuilding a rod from scratch, but was intimidated by the forms and ovensandsuch required. Perhaps once I've learned a little more about this stuff Iwill be more prepared to make that leap.In the meantime, I have an old 9' bamboo rod that was given to my fathermore then fifty years ago and never used. I intend to hang it on the wallasa sort of heirloom, but I wanted it to catch a couple fish first (it's justnot proper to retire a virgin rod). When I took it to the fly shop to havethem look at it and make sure I wasn't destroying any collector value itmight have I asked them about the two tips and was told that each handledadifferent weight line. Now I have to ask, if each tip is for a differentweight line, then can I surmise that it is the top third of a flyrod thatdetermines the rod's weight? If so, then what function does the bottomtwo-thirds have? According to the literature I've read I would have toguessthat the bottom certainly determines the rod's action, i.e., fast, mediumorslow. Is that all? If this is the case then I shouldn't have any problemmixing and matching sections from different rods to try and complete awholeone should I?I know, I've got a lot of questions, but this whole business of flyfishing, and especially bamboo rods fascinates me. Many thanks again, ScottSo.Cal. from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Tue Jun 27 08:54:32 2000 e5RDsVG28649 Subject: Re: New to the list There was a lot of great suggestions for determining the line weight of a*mystery rod*. One I didn't see mentioned that has worked well for me isto use one of the HEXROD programs. Simply enter the rod's physicalcharacteristics (length, number of pieces, dimensions) and then startvaring the line weight until you get max stress readings in the area 230,000. I found that it gets me within a line weight, if not dead-on before evenlining up the rod. Mike - over stressed & under lined - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from lars32@gateway.net Tue Jun 27 09:01:10 2000 e5RE1AG29055 Subject: Re: New to the list Hi ScottWhatever time you spend foolingwith those orphaned rod sections will not betime wasted it will be experiece gained. Plus it might be just great. Gottogther with three other builders the other day. all brought rods. All rodswere different. All had to have different techniques in casting them. whenyou get the rod put together let us know how it casts . Each rod has it'sown personality.Dave Norling-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: New to the list Hi Scott,in my most humble opinion it's neither the butt, mid or tipsection that determines the action of a rod. It's the combination of allthree working in harmony that puts the whole act together. I guess whatI'mtrying to say is that you can't just stick sections from different rodstogether and expect them to work to any reasonable degree. It's notimpossible but it is extremely improbable. Would you put four differentsized wheels on your car just because they're all round and expect it tohandle like the brochure says it should? Ipso facto, there is a very fineline separating a good bamboo fly rod from a tomato stake.Just throw caution to the wind and make your own rod from scratch.If you build nodeless you can use the oven in your kitchen and you can putaset of wooden forms together on a pretty low stress Sunday. With verylittle outlay over a reasonable period of time you can build a perfectlygood rod and have one hell of a lot of fun. If you don't wish to continueafter that first rod, at least you won't be broke but may God have mercyonyour soul (that one's for you Harry). Welcome aboard Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 27 June 2000 19:54 Subject: Re: New to the list First of all let me thank all of you for the warm welcome I received tothis list. Quite frankly, I was expecting something a little less due tothe snobbish reputation fly fishermen seem to have :-)OK, so it would seem from general consensus that what I need to do iscasta bunch of different lines to learn what a rod likes. I suppose I canhandle that. What most of you didn't seem to catch is that I am not trying to from existing parts. You know, I've got a couple of tips and bases from athree piece rod that had the mid section badly damaged; and I've got acoupleof bases and mid sections that have lost their tips, and so on. I lookedintobuilding a rod from scratch, but was intimidated by the forms and ovensandsuch required. Perhaps once I've learned a little more about this stuff Iwill be more prepared to make that leap.In the meantime, I have an old 9' bamboo rod that was given to my fathermore then fifty years ago and never used. I intend to hang it on the wallas a sort of heirloom, but I wanted it to catch a couple fish first (it's justnot proper to retire a virgin rod). When I took it to the fly shop to havethem look at it and make sure I wasn't destroying any collector value itmight have I asked them about the two tips and was told that each handledadifferent weight line. Now I have to ask, if each tip is for a differentweight line, then can I surmise that it is the top third of a flyrod thatdetermines the rod's weight? If so, then what function does the bottomtwo-thirds have? According to the literature I've read I would have toguess that the bottom certainly determines the rod's action, i.e., fast, mediumor slow. Is that all? If this is the case then I shouldn't have any problemmixing and matching sections from different rods to try and complete awhole one should I?I know, I've got a lot of questions, but this whole business of flyfishing, and especially bamboo rods fascinates me. Many thanks again, ScottSo.Cal. from bhoy@inmind.com Tue Jun 27 10:37:43 2000 e5RFbgG02968 Subject: thinning epon I've searched the archives but found little on this topic. I've had problems with oversize blanks even though I have been very careful about measurements. I can only assume that the problem is in the glueing up. It could be the binder, but I bound the last two sections by hand with good pressure and I got the same result. I have been using Shell epon and I've noticed it is extremely thick, which would lead me to suspect thick glue as the culprit. Has anybody tried thinning epon? Is it advisable? What solvent is best.. I've seen reference to both lacquer thinner and acetone. I really like epon and I'm reluctant to give up its shelf life, long working time and strength. As an aside, is it possible that thick glue is contributing to the straightness of my blanks? I've read over and over about people struggling to straighten their blanks, but it only takes me about five minutes to roll mine after straight gluing. I bought a heat gun, but I've never taken it out of the box.I build nodeless which I suspect may be a large part of the answer. I may be just lucky so far, but me and mr murphy are very old acquaintences. I cant believe he's taking a nap on this one. TIA, Bill Hoy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jun 27 10:41:00 2000 e5RFexG03184 8:49:09 PDT Subject: Re: New to the list Scott, I've made a few of the mid/tip section rods you're talking about. I put them together at random and found that about half of them cast O.K. and theother half really don't turn out very well. The most common action I got with converting 9' rods into 6' rods is a parabolic that flexes into the cork, not unlike the Midge taper everyone loves. The mids are usually light and the tips are usually too heavy. I think the best advice if you want to do this is to mic the rods and graph them as someone else suggested. Then you will have an idea as to how the two sections work together if they are from different rods and the ferrules don't fit. You can also simply fit the mid/tip together if they are from the same rod. Tape on a few more guides if necessary and tape on a reel. This will give you a pretty good idea as to what the rod is going to do when finished. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 27 16:00:43 2000 e5RL0gG13293 (204.186.33.43) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: New to the list Hi Scott, Building rods from parts is not a waste of time. You willgain much experience from doing so. As far as making your own blanks from scratch it doesn't need to be expensive at all. The first 4 rods Imade were done on V blocks and a micrometer , heat treated in an ironpipe with a torch and bound by hand with a fly tying bobbin.. Theaccuracy was as good as would be done on a set of adjustable planingforms. It did take a long time though but I am glad I did it. Sincethen( 12 years ago) I made a set of forms and heat treating oven andopened my wallet. I knew this would be a lifelong hobby. Getting back to building from ready made sticks. The best way to seewhat you will end up with is to tape sections together (taking forgranted the ferrules are different sizes) stick a temporary tip top onand see if you like the action. If it feels too soft cut the sectionsdown until you are satisfied. The whole rod working as one determinesthe line size. Marty First of all let me thank all of you for the warm welcome I received tothis list. Quite frankly, I was expecting something a little less due to thesnobbish reputation fly fishermen seem to have :-)OK, so it would seem from general consensus that what I need to do iscasta bunch of different lines to learn what a rod likes. I suppose I can handlethat. What most of you didn't seem to catch is that I am not trying to from existing parts. You know, I've got a couple of tips and bases from athree piece rod that had the mid section badly damaged; and I've got acoupleof bases and mid sections that have lost their tips, and so on. I looked intobuilding a rod from scratch, but was intimidated by the forms and ovensandsuch required. Perhaps once I've learned a little more about this stuff Iwill be more prepared to make that leap.In the meantime, I have an old 9' bamboo rod that was given to my fathermore then fifty years ago and never used. I intend to hang it on the wall asa sort of heirloom, but I wanted it to catch a couple fish first (it's justnot proper to retire a virgin rod). When I took it to the fly shop to havethem look at it and make sure I wasn't destroying any collector value itmight have I asked them about the two tips and was told that each handledadifferent weight line. Now I have to ask, if each tip is for a differentweight line, then can I surmise that it is the top third of a flyrod thatdetermines the rod's weight? If so, then what function does the bottomtwo-thirds have? According to the literature I've read I would have to guessthat the bottom certainly determines the rod's action, i.e., fast, mediumorslow. Is that all? If this is the case then I shouldn't have any problemmixing and matching sections from different rods to try and complete awholeone should I?I know, I've got a lot of questions, but this whole business of flyfishing, and especially bamboo rods fascinates me. Many thanks again, ScottSo.Cal. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Tue Jun 27 16:16:18 2000 e5RLGIG13955 Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:16:19 -0400 Subject: RE: New to the list Marty - I have made two rods now using the iron pipe and torch method of heattreating, which I learned from Sean Moran. Its ridiculously easy, takes meabout 45 minutes from start to finish, the investment was minimal, and theresults are just fine. I get a well-tempered rod with a nice brownish-tancolor, darkening slightly towards the tip. I'm curious why you decided togo ahead and build a heat treating oven, with all the added expense andbother, and if you are satisfied that it was worth it. -Seth Steinzor -----Original Message-----From: marty [SMTP:horsesho@ptd.net]Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 4:57 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New to the list The first 4 rods Imade were done on V blocks and a micrometer , heat treated in an ironpipe with a torch and bound by hand with a fly tying bobbin.. Theaccuracy was as good as would be done on a set of adjustable planingforms. It did take a long time though but I am glad I did it. Sincethen( 12 years ago) I made a set of forms and heat treating oven andopened my wallet. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jun 27 19:07:28 2000 e5S07RG17729 Subject: Re: thinning epon Bill,Regarding the thinning of Epon: DON'T! You will seriously impair theintegrity of the bond. That said, you should know that either lacquerthinner, MEK, or acetone will do the job, though it would be wise to testeach on a small batch. Whether or not you will impair the integrity to adetrimental level is your guess. Epon has such tremendous bond strengththatit might be possible to thin and suffer no deleterious effect, however thereis a better way, though more expensive. I assume you are using 828 resinwith 1040 (or is it 1041?) curing agent. Try using 3164 curing agent. Idon't have the data here, I thought I did, but it will give you: A. A lessviscous mixture, by about half, maybe more; B. It will give you an evenstronger bond; C. It will give you a more flexible bond. I forget what thespecified working time is, but it's plenty; even if you're slow. Also, forevery 10* increase in temp. the cure rate doubles. So, you could have theglued rod completely through it's exotherm in 4 hrs. vs. 4 days. Try gluingup, let it set for about an hour, maybe more, at room temp (whatever thathappens to be, though at least 80*. This gives it time to start setting upso that it won't run when introduced to the next step.), set it into adrying cabinet at 100* for another hour, then up it to 120* for another twohours, or even three. Voila! Completed exotherm. Oh, and one other thing:Store the Epon at 100* for max. shelf life, and mixability. The stuff isweird. It almostdoes not have a determinable shelf life; lasts almost forever. The gluejoint cross sectional thickness is not critical, though you wouldn't want tosqueeze the chittlin's too hard, either. With the 3164, partly due to thedecreased viscosity, the mixture seeps into the pores of the bamboo better,addingto the adherence.Now, all that said, you could also use 826 resin, which is but a thinnerversion of 828. 826 and 3164 is too thin, in my opinion. Ain't 'sperimentingfun? (Yes, dear, that's nice. Just please, don't blow up the bathroomagain. -my mother, 1967)When you mix your epoxy, do you introduce any air into the mixtureinadvertently through stirring? I'm thinking that you may be gettingmicrobubbles that are trapped in the mixture, have no means of escape, andthus are giving you a thicker than necessary bond cross section. When yousay your cross sectional thickness is oversized, by how much according toyour target thickness? And how close are you to the target thickness beforegluing up? Martin-Darrell ----- Original Message ----- Subject: thinning epon Snipped I've had problems with oversize blanks even though I have been verycareful aboutmeasurements. I can only assume that the problem is in the glueing up. Itcould be the binder, but Ibound the last two sections by hand with good pressure and I got the sameresult. I have been using Shell epon and I've noticed it is extremely thick, whichwould lead me to suspect thick glue as the culprit. Has anybody triedthinning epon? Is it advisable? What solvent is best.. I've seen referenceto both lacquer thinner and acetone. I really like epon and I'm reluctant to give up its shelf life, longworking time and strength. As an aside, is it possible that thick glue is contributing to thestraightness of my blanks? I've read over and over about people strugglingto straighten their blanks, but it only takes me about five minutes toroll mine after straight gluing.TIA, Bill Hoy from bh887@lafn.org Tue Jun 27 19:45:45 2000 e5S0jiG18307 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: thinning epon I have "thinned" two part epoxys' by heating them a bit before applying themto the surfaces. Close proximity (2-3") to a 100 watt or better light bulb power of joint life. Worth a try on a test section or two. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: thinning epon I've searched the archives but found little on this topic. I've hadproblems with oversize blanks even though I have been very careful aboutmeasurements. I can only assume that the problem is in the glueing up. Itcould be the binder, but I bound the last two sections by hand with goodpressure and I got the same result. I have been using Shell epon and I've noticed it is extremely thick, whichwould lead me to suspect thick glue as the culprit. Has anybody triedthinning epon? Is it advisable? What solvent is best.. I've seen referenceto both lacquer thinner and acetone. I really like epon and I'm reluctant to give up its shelf life, longworking time and strength. As an aside, is it possible that thick glue is contributing to thestraightness of my blanks? I've read over and over about people strugglingto straighten their blanks, but it only takes me about five minutes torollmine after straight gluing. I bought a heat gun, but I've never taken itout of the box.I build nodeless which I suspect may be a large part of the answer. I maybe just lucky so far, but me and mr murphy are very old acquaintences. Icant believe he's taking a nap on this one. TIA, Bill Hoy from channer1@rmi.net Tue Jun 27 20:43:25 2000 e5S1hOG19230 Subject: Re: thinning epon Bill;I have had good luck with laquer thinner and bad luck with acetone.Acetone seemed to keep it from setting up until I heat treated the rodsections, which I don't usually bother doing. The glue left in the cupwas still liquid 24 hrs after mixing, so I hit it with the heat gun tosee what would happen and it set up in about 15 mins. i heat treated theglued up rod for 15 mins at 200d and it turned out fine. You can alsowarm (warm, as in warm tap water, not too hot) up the separate partsbefore you mix and that will help, don't heat it after you mix or itwill start to set.John Bill Hoy wrote:> I've searched the archives but found little on this topic. I'vehadproblems with oversize blanks even though I have been very careful aboutmeasurements. I can only assume that the problem is in the glueing up. Itcould be the binder, but I bound the last two sections by hand with goodpressure and I got the same result. I have been using Shell epon and I've noticed it is extremely thick, whichwould lead me to suspect thick glue as the culprit. Has anybody triedthinning epon? Is it advisable? What solvent is best.. I've seen referenceto both lacquer thinner and acetone. I really like epon and I'm reluctant to give up its shelf life, longworking time and strength. As an aside, is it possible that thick glue is contributing to thestraightness of my blanks? I've read over and over about people strugglingto straighten their blanks, but it only takes me about five minutes to rollmine after straight gluing. I bought a heat gun, but I've never taken itout of the box.I build nodeless which I suspect may be a large part of the answer. I maybe just lucky so far, but me and mr murphy are very old acquaintences. Icant believe he's taking a nap on this one. TIA, Bill Hoy from channer1@rmi.net Tue Jun 27 20:49:16 2000 e5S1nFG19408 Subject: 7'6" dilema O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like a menuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jun 27 20:58:57 2000 e5S1wuG19669 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:00:20 -0500 Subject: Re: thinning epon Most any compatible cutting agent, such as alcohol, lacquer thinner, etc.,mixed into an epoxy will slow its set up time considerably. With poweredmodel airplanes, it used to be standard practice to thin epoxy, and brush itinto every interior area, where the fuel with oil, might get into the wood.This killed the set up time for several DAYS, if thinned too much.Introducing heat, boils off these thinners (gassing)and also lets thereaction complete the epoxy set up. I really appreciate the info about the different types of Shell Epon, to getthinner of thicker mixes. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: thinning epon Bill;I have had good luck with laquer thinner and bad luck with acetone.Acetone seemed to keep it from setting up until I heat treated the rodsections, which I don't usually bother doing. The glue left in the cupwas still liquid 24 hrs after mixing, so I hit it with the heat gun tosee what would happen and it set up in about 15 mins. i heat treated theglued up rod for 15 mins at 200d and it turned out fine. You can alsowarm (warm, as in warm tap water, not too hot) up the separate partsbefore you mix and that will help, don't heat it after you mix or itwill start to set.John Bill Hoy wrote: I've searched the archives but found little on this topic. I've hadproblems with oversize blanks even though I have been very carefulaboutmeasurements. I can only assume that the problem is in the glueing up.Itcould be the binder, but I bound the last two sections by hand with goodpressure and I got the same result. I have been using Shell epon and I've noticed it is extremely thick,whichwould lead me to suspect thick glue as the culprit. Has anybody triedthinning epon? Is it advisable? What solvent is best.. I've seenreferenceto both lacquer thinner and acetone. I really like epon and I'm reluctant to give up its shelf life, longworking time and strength. As an aside, is it possible that thick glue is contributing to thestraightness of my blanks? I've read over and over about peoplestrugglingto straighten their blanks, but it only takes me about five minutes torollmine after straight gluing. I bought a heat gun, but I've never takenitout of the box.I build nodeless which I suspect may be a large part of the answer. Imaybe just lucky so far, but me and mr murphy are very old acquaintences. Icant believe he's taking a nap on this one. TIA, Bill Hoy from KiAyker@aol.com Tue Jun 27 21:25:02 2000 e5S2P1G20123 Subject: Re: New to the list In a message dated 6/27/00 2:01:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.net writes: Yeah, that's kinda the way I look at it. If I spend a bunch of time at it and learn something, even if I end up with a piece of junk, it's worth it. Very interesting! How did you learn to do this? More importantly, how can I learn to do this? ScottSo.Cal. from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Jun 27 21:38:25 2000 e5S2cOG20461 Subject: Re: New to the list In a message dated 06/27/2000 4:54:58 AM PDT, KiAyker@aol.com writes: Scott,Be careful ... this whole fly fishing, bamboo rod thing can be horrible. Men lose their wives, children go hungry, the bank takes their houses, you'll lose your job, next thing you know, you have a great bamboo shop with no shower and a Coleman stove ... and a fresh shipment of tonkin.Mike ShayMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclairPS, What part of so cal are you from? from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jun 27 22:19:02 2000 e5S3J1G21236 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:18:58 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: New to the list Mike,what was the downside again???Shawn Troutgetter@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 06/27/2000 4:54:58 AM PDT, KiAyker@aol.comwrites: fishing, and especially bamboo rods fascinates me. Many thanks again, ScottSo.Cal. Scott,Be careful ... this whole fly fishing, bamboo rod thing can be horrible. Menlose their wives, children go hungry, the bank takes their houses, you'lllose your job, next thing you know, you have a great bamboo shop with noshower and a Coleman stove ... and a fresh shipment of tonkin.Mike ShayMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclairPS, What part of so cal are you from? from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Jun 27 22:50:08 2000 e5S3o8G21775 Subject: Re: New to the list In a message dated 06/27/2000 8:19:34 PM PDT,nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: Shawn,You KNOW there is no downside. I just felt it was my obligation to the brother hood (sisters too) to issue a fair warning. The bamboo life is not easy. Oh sure ... the first one's free but then you're hooked. You start bumming your friends rod. You know just to take a look. And then it's "Hey you really can play a big fish on one of those ... can I try it?" Next thing you know, your scrounging through the back seat of your friends car. "If you're not going to use this rod, can I?" We all know the story from there. A life of wanton debauchery, beer, single malt, and old Payne'sMikeMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jun 27 23:10:05 2000 e5S4A3G22117 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:08:12 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: RE: New to the list Hi Scott,have a look at the web pages of Bruce Conner, Thomas Penrose andTony Young and just browse around the Rodmakers page in general. Look atthe ideas and equipment and just adapt or modify to suit yourself and yourbudget. If you would like a list of the tools I used to make my first rodand what the whole thing cost me, I'd be happy to put it all together foryou. It will have to wait for a couple of days though as I'm in the finalpreparatory stages for our annual stocktake, and when you're dealing with apathology organisation that services an area more than 3 1/2 times the sizeof Texas, it's like gearing up for a NASA launch. 10,9,8,7.............. Mike Very interesting! How did you learn to do this? More importantly, how can I learn to do this? ScottSo.Cal. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Jun 27 23:43:10 2000 e5S4h9G22655 Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:43:06 PDT Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema From: channer Subject: 7'6" dilemaDate: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:50:15 -0600 O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like a menuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John 7 1/2 ft 2pc 5wt Dx taper-- my favorite all around rod0 - .0725 - .08810- .10215- .12020- .13425- .14830- .16235- .17640- .18845- .20250- .21855- .23460- .25065- .26470- .27875- .29280- .30285,90 - .316 the rod has been built by a variety of makers and seems to build consistent each time- A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jun 28 05:31:01 2000 e5SAV1G26503 (204.186.33.1) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: New to the list Hi Seth, The only reason I changed to a heat gun type oven is becauseI don't have to be involved physically when I heat treat. I just bringthe oven to temp. , slide the sticks in and watch the clock. During thistime I can do other things. The results are no better than the torchand pipe method though. Marty Marty - I have made two rods now using the iron pipe and torch method of heattreating, which I learned from Sean Moran. Its ridiculously easy, takes meabout 45 minutes from start to finish, the investment was minimal, andtheresults are just fine. I get a well-tempered rod with a nice brownish-tancolor, darkening slightly towards the tip. I'm curious why you decided togo ahead and build a heat treating oven, with all the added expense andbother, and if you are satisfied that it was worth it. -Seth Steinzor -----Original Message-----From: marty [SMTP:horsesho@ptd.net]Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 4:57 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New to the list The first 4 rods Imade were done on V blocks and a micrometer , heat treated in an ironpipe with a torch and bound by hand with a fly tying bobbin.. Theaccuracy was as good as would be done on a set of adjustable planingforms. It did take a long time though but I am glad I did it. Sincethen( 12 years ago) I made a set of forms and heat treating oven andopened my wallet. from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jun 28 05:36:55 2000 e5SAasG26684 (204.186.33.1) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema I like the 71/2' #4/5 Granger Taper. It's hard to beat. I recentlymiked a 71/2' 3pc. #4/5 Leonard post fire that casted great. I will postthe taper if anyone is interested. Marty O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like a menuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jun 28 06:16:42 2000 e5SBGgG27300 (204.186.33.1) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: New to the list KiAyker@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/27/00 2:01:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.netwrites: gain much experience from doing so.>> Yeah, that's kinda the way I look at it. If I spend a bunch of time at itand learn something, even if I end up with a piece of junk, it's worth it. from scratch it doesn't need to be expensive at all. The first 4 rods Imade were done on V blocks and a micrometer , heat treated in an ironpipe with a torch and bound by hand with a fly tying bobbin. >> Very interesting! How did you learn to do this? More importantly, how canI learn to do this? ScottSo.Cal.Hi Scott, I got the bug in '85 after reading Mclanes FishingEncyclopedia. They had a section on bamboo rod making. I had a machineshop groove out a V block (detailed plan is in this book) The same thingcan easily be made out of a hard wood (maples best). I readGarrison/Carmichael's book Masters Guide to Making Bamboo Rods (for abeginner this book is much to detailed . I believe this book was donethis way to make rod making appear more difficult than it really is. Ilike what the great rodmaker Lyle Dickerson said when asked what hethought of the book " if I thought rodmaking was that difficult I neverwould have tried it") I read the book How To Make Bamboo Fly Rods byGeorge W Barnes (Winchester Press). This is a simplified book that willget you going. Marty from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Jun 28 06:36:04 2000 e5SBZaG27667 Subject: also new Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE147.BA43DB00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE147.BA43DB00 Scott I am also new to the list, and relatively new to the craft (10 rods). I =think you can get a lot of fun out of putting bits together, and do a =lot of really good ground work. But MAKE YOUR OWN! I am 57 years old, and not a wealthy person. I have 2 sets of forms, a =wooden set made from Tony Young's instructions (See The Planing Form) =and a steel set which a friend of mine made for me at cost. I have no =binder. I have no lathe. I am a veterinarian, so have no experience of =working with stuff that doesn't heal itself no matter how ham-fisted you =are. If I had to put up a set of shelves to save my life, I'd die! I =have one Record block plane and one Lie-Nielson scraper.( I must say =that calling this tool a "scraper" is like calling Glenlivet single malt ="booze".) I think that making bamboo rods from scratch is about the single most = I think that the Tony Young wooden forms are better than the steel set =to use, and the accuracy I get is at least as good. If I were doing it =again I wouldn't bother with the steel ones. A friend of mine in Hobart =(I live in Tasmania, Australia) made himself a set of steel ones BEFORE =he made a rod, and they are fantastic - better than my professionally =made ones, and his rod sections are excellent. He used the Thomas =Penrose instructions. The first rod takes a long time, and every step is accompanied by a real =feeling of dread in case you stuff it up. But you don't, and the rods =turn out fine, and are fantastic to fish. As I tell anybody who looks =even vaguely like a captive audience, I didn't even assemble any of my =graphite rods this past season, I enjoy the cane rods so much. Mike Roberts and Tony Young both live in Western Australia, and they are =both strong advocates of nodeless rod construction; but it's well known =here 'down under' that they are all a bit strange over that side of the =continent - you know the old rule, coral reefs on the east, strange = whichever way you think sounds best. But for your own sake, DO IT. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE147.BA43DB00 Scott to the craft (10 rods). I think you can get a lot of fun out of putting = together, and do a lot of really good ground work. But MAKE YOUR OWN! I am 57 years old, and not a wealthy = 2 sets of forms, a wooden set made from Tony Young's instructions (See = Planing Form) and a steel set which a friend of mine made for me at = no binder. I have no lathe. I am a veterinarian, so have no experience = working with stuff that doesn't heal itself no matter how ham-fisted you = I had to put up a set of shelves to save my life, I'd die! I have one = block plane and one Lie-Nielson scraper.( I must say that calling this = "scraper" is like calling Glenlivet single malt "booze".) I think that making bamboo rods from = I think that the Tony Young wooden = than the steel set to use, and the accuracy I get is at least as good. = Hobart (I live in Tasmania, Australia) made himself a set of steel ones = he made a rod, and they are fantastic - better than my professionally = instructions. The first rod takes a long time, and = accompanied by a real feeling of dread in case you stuff it up. But you = and the rods turn out fine, and are fantastic to fish. As I tell anybody = looks even vaguely like a captive audience, I didn't even assemble any = graphite rods this past season, I enjoy the cane rods so =much. Mike Roberts and Tony Young both live = Australia, and they are both strong advocates of nodeless rod = it's well known here 'down under' that they are all a bit strange over = of the continent - you know the old rule, coral reefs on the east, = on the west! :-) But nodes are not that hard to handle, so do it = you think sounds best. But for your own sake, DO IT. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFE147.BA43DB00-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jun 28 07:37:54 2000 e5SCbrG28583 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:37:24 -0500 Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema I'd sure like to have it, and I'm sure others would too ! Thanks, GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema I like the 71/2' #4/5 Granger Taper. It's hard to beat. I recentlymiked a 71/2' 3pc. #4/5 Leonard post fire that casted great. I will postthe taper if anyone is interested. Marty O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like amenuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John from piscator@crosswinds.net Wed Jun 28 07:50:10 2000 e5SCo9G28916 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema If you can go 7'9" the para 14 is a sweet rod. 4/5 wt. and radically differentfeel from the perfectionist. You can lay out a really long cast, roll cast,and work close in with the same level of performance, and I've landed some20"fish on 6x with it thanks to the delicate tip.That's my vote. Brian O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like a menuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Wed Jun 28 08:09:39 2000 e5SD9cG29669 with ESMTPA id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:09:33 EDT Subject: Off List !! Retiring tomorrow and leaving for 2 months on an extended vacation. Willbe seeing some of you at various locations along the way. Going off thelist at this address and will reup when I return in Sept. Later,Jim Tefft from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jun 28 08:15:25 2000 e5SDFOG00055 Subject: Re: New to the list At 10:24 PM 6/27/2000 EDT, KiAyker@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 6/27/00 2:01:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.net writes: gain much experience from doing so.>> Yeah, that's kinda the way I look at it. If I spend a bunch of time at it and learn something, even if I end up with a piece of junk, it's worth it. from scratch it doesn't need to be expensive at all. The first 4 rods Imade were done on V blocks and a micrometer , heat treated in an ironpipe with a torch and bound by hand with a fly tying bobbin. >> Very interesting! How did you learn to do this? More importantly, how can I learn to do this? ScottSo.Cal. Scott, Another way to approach the first cane rod problem is to buy an oldproduction rod that is complete but in need of restoration. The rod Istarted with was a Montegue Rapidan. A South Bend, Bristol or a low- gradeHeddon would be good starters. I think that a first-time rod might have afew missing guides might need the cork repaired, new varnish and perhapsthe ferrules re-set. Such a rod, or one in better shape, could be obtainedon e-bay for > > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 28 08:42:09 2000 e5SDg8G00976 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 06:42:06 -0700 Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema John,Gotta go with the Payne 101 I'm always raving about. Harry channer wrote: O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like a menuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from FlyfishT@aol.com Wed Jun 28 09:26:02 2000 e5SEQ1G02055; Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hi John,Its the same problem i have. The menu is to big.I am getting close to gluing up a payne 101 .If you can wait a week i'll let you know. Although there are others on the list that have made it. I have made the 7012 dickerson in the 7 ft. , nice not to slow not to fast. Regards,Tom from brewer@teleport.com Wed Jun 28 10:12:05 2000 e5SFC4G03420 via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0scBT3; Wed Jun 2808:11:56 2000 Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema It probably is presumptuous of me to second A.J.'s opinion, but I have built4 of his 7 1/2' 5 wt PX taper rods and they are simply wonderful. By allmeans build one. You won't be disappointed! Randy Brewer ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema From: channer Subject: 7'6" dilemaDate: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:50:15 -0600 O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like a menuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John 7 1/2 ft 2pc 5wt Dx taper-- my favorite all around rod0 - .0725 - .08810- .10215- .12020- .13425- .14830- .16235- .17640- .18845- .20250- .21855- .23460- .25065- .26470- .27875- .29280- .30285,90 - .316 the rod has been built by a variety of makers and seems to buildconsistenteach time-A.J.Thramer ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jun 28 10:21:55 2000 e5SFLtG03767 8:30:23 PDT Subject: Mike Leitheiser I heard this morning that Mike Leitheiser of Lake Oswego, Oregon had an aneurysm on Sunday, and was taken off life support yesterday or this morning. Mike is a member and contributor to our list. Please pray for him and his family at this time. I know many of you probably know him and his love of bamboo, and appreciate his major contribution to fly fishing. I've only known him a relatively short time, but his knowledge of fly fishing, fly fishing history, and passion for bamboo rods is inspiring for me. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from eharrison241@earthlink.net Wed Jun 28 10:34:22 2000 e5SFYMG04267 IAA15355 Subject: eBay Mark Edmonds just sold one of his new bamboo rods on eBay for $760. Ican'tfind his name in the archives so I guess he isn't a member of Rodmakers. Itwas a nice looking rod.Ernie from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jun 28 10:35:54 2000 e5SFZrG04400 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:35:48 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema Marty,I'd be interested in that Leonard taper and any particulars youmight have about the rod! Leonard tapers are hard to come by! I have beentrying to find the Leonard Model 50 taper to no avail as well.TIA, Shawn Pineo marty wrote: I like the 71/2' #4/5 Granger Taper. It's hard to beat. I recentlymiked a 71/2' 3pc. #4/5 Leonard post fire that casted great. I will postthe taper if anyone is interested. Marty O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like amenuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jun 28 10:42:55 2000 e5SFgsG04760 8:51:23 PDT Subject: Leonard Tapers Hi Shawn, Go to this page within the rodmakers site, http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/Tapers/hexrod-archive.html#leonard It is kind of buried in the software tab of the rodmakes site. There are several Leonard tapers posted there, including a few Model 50 tapers. These are a collection of tapers provided by members of this list over the last several years. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 28 11:25:56 2000 e5SGPuG06721 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:25:55 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Leonard Tapers CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: There areseveral Leonard tapers posted there, including a few Model 50 tapers. Theseare a collection of tapers provided by members of this list over the lastseveral years. Chris,I think the Leonard Model 50 tapers listed must be mislabled. As far as Iknow, all the 50DF's were 3 piece, and those rods are 2 piece. My guess isthatthey are Model 50 Tournament tapers rather than 50 DF.I'm no expert by any means, but that's what I've found in my study ofLeonard. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jun 28 11:31:25 2000 e5SGVOG06990 LAA05841 ESMTP; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:31:12 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Leonard Tapers if you open up those tapers you will find that ones is a 3 piece and the 2piece, I think is converted to 2 piece from the 3 piece tapers. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@3g.quik.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 9:24 AM Cc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Leonard Tapers CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: There areseveral Leonard tapers posted there, including a few Model 50 tapers. Theseare a collection of tapers provided by members of this list over the lastseveral years. Chris,I think the Leonard Model 50 tapers listed must be mislabled. As far as Iknow, all the 50DF's were 3 piece, and those rods are 2 piece. My guess isthatthey are Model 50 Tournament tapers rather than 50 DF.I'm no expert by any means, but that's what I've found in my study ofLeonard. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 28 13:32:52 2000 e5SIWpG11725 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Leonard Tapers "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: if you open up those tapers you will find that ones is a 3 piece and the 2piece, I think is converted to 2 piece from the 3 piece tapers. Oooohhh, so you have to open them up, huh!! Sorry, I spoke too soon. Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Wed Jun 28 13:55:11 2000 e5SItAG12648 helo=stans.tiac.net) Subject: Waterlox for Rod Finish Hey Folks,Does anyone have any experiance with Waterlox original finish asoffered if this product, with the addition of the phenolic resins, offers animprovement over straight tung oil.Any feedback is much appreciated. My first order of Cane fromDemerastarrived yesterday - even just putting the preliminary drying splits in eachculm was a thrill - I'm off and running! Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jun 28 14:22:04 2000 e5SJM3G13969 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: FYI: Dickerson 8014 Guide Importance: Normal I finished my 8014 Guide from Howell's book last night. If anyone islooking for a smooth powerful taper for a 7 wt line, I can't imagine a muchbetter rod than this. It seems to cast itself and feels lighter in my handthan a para 15 I built last year. Of the rods I've built so far, I'd haveto say this one is tied with the 7 ft Granger 4 wt for top spot. Richard from EESweet@aol.com Wed Jun 28 14:55:07 2000 e5SJt6G15927 2000 15:54:58 -0400 Subject: Re: FYI: Dickerson 8014 Guide While in NZ last year, I had the pleasure of casting 8014 Guide that IanKearney crafted and I have to agree with everything you've said. I can'tencourage anyone enough to build this rod if they have need of a 7 wt. Formore rave reviews check the archives around Nov. - Dec. 1999, Tony Youngalso had a chance to cast it and also loved it.Eric from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Jun 28 15:41:53 2000 e5SKfrG17640 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:41:50 PDT Subject: Dickerson 801510 Does anyone have the taper for a Dickerson 801510?A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Jun 28 15:48:52 2000 e5SKmpG17942 Subject: Removing Reelseat I'm having trouble removing two reelseats. These are the older style,tubing over a wooden dowel. I believe they both are chrome platedbrass. I've removed the pins from both. I've tried boiling them, I'veheated them gently with a hairdryer and a flame. On one of them, themetal sleeve came off but I can't remove the dowel from the blank, onthe other I've accomplished absolutely nothing. Does anyone have anysuggestions other than heating them? I wouldn't mind cutting them off(they are being replaced), but I've never done that, can anyone suggesta method for doing so?TIA from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jun 28 16:10:08 2000 e5SLA8G18894 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Bamboo and saltwater Importance: Normal What's the current opinion about using a bamboo rod in saltwater? I'd liketo use my newly finished 7 wt for sea trout in estuaries next week. I planto wipe down with a damp cloth afterwards and my rods are impregnated. Richard from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jun 28 16:17:41 2000 e5SLHeG19498 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:17:27 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Bamboo and saltwater I fished my Bobby Doer, and Lee Cuddy Powerhouse, PHY's in salt allot,andnever had any trouble. I washed them carefully with soap and water, eachnight, and oiled the reel seat threads, etc.. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo and saltwater What's the current opinion about using a bamboo rod in saltwater? I'd liketo use my newly finished 7 wt for sea trout in estuaries next week. I planto wipe down with a damp cloth afterwards and my rods are impregnated. Richard from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jun 28 16:37:14 2000 e5SLbDG20207 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:32:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Removing Reelseat James,After you get the metal cover off, you can put it in a lathe and takedown the wooden sleeve. If no lathe, then, if you have a slitting saw forserrating ferrules, you should be able to cut through the wooden sleeve verycarefully and then be able to chip it off in strips with a small woodchisel. Or just revive an old southern passtime and start whittlin'! -----Original Message----- Subject: Removing Reelseat I'm having trouble removing two reelseats. These are the older style,tubing over a wooden dowel. I believe they both are chrome platedbrass. I've removed the pins from both. I've tried boiling them, I'veheated them gently with a hairdryer and a flame. On one of them, themetal sleeve came off but I can't remove the dowel from the blank, onthe other I've accomplished absolutely nothing. Does anyone have anysuggestions other than heating them? I wouldn't mind cutting them off(they are being replaced), but I've never done that, can anyone suggesta method for doing so?TIA from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Wed Jun 28 17:01:15 2000 e5SM1EG20929 Subject: a good man rodmakers - sunday evening our friend mike leitheiser died suddenly. mikehad just finnished his first cane rod, and was working with new strips forhis next rod when it happened. He was young and in good health, so the newsis quite a shock. i don't know how many of you all knew him, but he was a fequent contributorto this list. he was also an excellent photographer, good fisherman andsteelheader, and an all around good guy. forestry center here in portland, at 6:30 PM. he's really gonna be missed. christopher o from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jun 28 18:08:02 2000 e5SN82G22234 (204.186.33.169) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema Hi All, I got this rod in for repair about 9 months ago (the guycracked a hook dig in Montana) . After the repair I test casted it witha #4 line. It was probably the finest 71/2'er I have ever cast . Medium to medium/fast action.So I miked it and took some measurements. Here itis. (I do not know exactly which model it was, but it's sweet!Post Fire Leonard 71/2' 3pc. #4/5 (measured over varnish ,deduct .003)Tip Mid Butt00 .068 .161 .23505 .088 .173 .24910 .107 .191 .26415 .126 .197 .27020 .145 .203 .27525 .147 .215 .275? under grip30 .160 .225 .275?under grip Guide spacing from smaller end of each sectiontip mid butt4" 1 5/8" 5 3/4" (stripper)10" 9 3/4" 17" 18" 24" 26 1/2" 5 1/2" grip 3 3/8" seatMarty Marty, Please send me Your taper.What is the rod like, fast, slow, parabolic...... regardsdanny marty wrote: I like the 71/2' #4/5 Granger Taper. It's hard to beat. I recentlymiked a 71/2' 3pc. #4/5 Leonard post fire that casted great. I will postthe taper if anyone is interested. Marty from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jun 28 18:10:58 2000 e5SNAwG22430 (204.186.33.169) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema Hi Brian, Is that taper in an old issue of the Planing Form? Which one?If not, please post it. Marty If you can go 7'9" the para 14 is a sweet rod. 4/5 wt. and radicallydifferentfeel from the perfectionist. You can lay out a really long cast, roll cast,and work close in with the same level of performance, and I've landed some20"fish on 6x with it thanks to the delicate tip.That's my vote. Brian O.K. Guys;Cast your vote for your favorite 7 and a half footer. I was going tobuild an 8', but, due to unforseen circumstance, it will have to be7'6". I've made plenty of Perfectionists, it's time to try somethingdifferent and I would like some feedback, what do the rest of you like?Leonard 39, Payne 97 or 100, maybe the Dickerson 7612. It's like a menuwith too much stuff on it, I can't decide.John from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jun 28 19:29:42 2000 e5T0TfG24010 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Bamboo and saltwater Importance: Normal Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry about saltwater fishing withbamboo. A few people pointed out that, prior to fiberglass, cane wascommonly used for saltwater. So, I'm off to catch sea-run brook trout (andthe inevitable cod) on the upper north shore of Quebec. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo and saltwater I fished my Bobby Doer, and Lee Cuddy Powerhouse, PHY's insalt allot, andnever had any trouble. I washed them carefully with soap andwater, eachnight, and oiled the reel seat threads, etc.. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Richard Nantel" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:26 PMSubject: Bamboo and saltwater What's the current opinion about using a bamboo rod insaltwater? I'd liketo use my newly finished 7 wt for sea trout in estuariesnext week. I planto wipe down with a damp cloth afterwards and my rods areimpregnated. Richard from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jun 28 20:31:45 2000 e5T1ViG24977 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:31:37 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Removing Reelseat James,perhaps a Dremel tool with a fiber cutting wheel might work?Make a couple cuts along the length and chip off the pieces maybe?? Soundsbarbaric but there's not too many other ways that I know of besides whatyou have mentioned. Shawn Pineo James wrote: I'm having trouble removing two reelseats. These are the older style,tubing over a wooden dowel. I believe they both are chrome platedbrass. I've removed the pins from both. I've tried boiling them, I'veheated them gently with a hairdryer and a flame. On one of them, themetal sleeve came off but I can't remove the dowel from the blank, onthe other I've accomplished absolutely nothing. Does anyone have anysuggestions other than heating them? I wouldn't mind cutting them off(they are being replaced), but I've never done that, can anyone suggesta method for doing so?TIA from channer1@rmi.net Wed Jun 28 21:04:04 2000 e5T244G25470 Subject: Re: Leonard Tapers Harry Boyd wrote: Chris,I think the Leonard Model 50 tapers listed must be mislabled. As far as Iknow, all the 50DF's were 3 piece, and those rods are 2 piece. My guess isthatthey are Model 50 Tournament tapers rather than 50 DF.I'm no expert by any means, but that's what I've found in my study ofLeonard. Harry--Harry;The one I posted was taken directly from a Leonard Model 50 df, originalmarkings on the rod said so.John from channer1@rmi.net Wed Jun 28 21:22:56 2000 e5T2MtG25763 Subject: re: dilema guys;Thanks to one and all for all the great ideas and tapers. I hadforgotten about some, hadn't heard anything one way or another aboutothers, and had some new ones sent to me, all of which I reallyappreciate. Now if i can win the lottery so i can devote the time tobuilding all of them as they deserve I will be all set. I can see i amgoing to be busy building 7-6ers for quite a while, which suits me fine,I think I like this length best for all around trout fishing anyway.Sad news about Michael, altho i didn't know him other than thru thelist, I count him as a friend, as are you all. It's a shame to losesomeone so young, my sympathy's go out to his family and close friends.John from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jun 28 22:29:08 2000 e5T3T7G26975 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Mike My deepest condolences to Mike's family. Every once in a while we are struck by such a tragedy, but I am glad to know that we have such a deep sense of brotherhood and community on this list. If you look at the archives, you will see that when these things happen, the list is a very caring outlet that expresses such respect and care for each member. I am glad to be a part of this list. You guys and gals are true kindred spirits. Thanks. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Jun 28 22:40:51 2000 e5T3eoG27303 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: moisture in older rods Seems like it has been discussed before that if you keep an unfinishedrod in a humid area like a basement, it will go soft and not holdstraightness. I've got a couple of old rods that I'm working on that Istripped a while back, and now it seems that the tips will hold whateverset I put on them - without heating. :-( Do you suppose I could run them through my heatgun oven to restore thetemper without screwing up the glue? Maybe at long, low temps? Willthat restore the temper to the cane if I do, or if not, is there someother way at this point?? Or, am I just outa luck? One's just a wall hanger for a neighbor, so it's not a big deal, but Iwanted to fish the other one to see what one of the old 9 footers wouldbe like, so I'd kinda like to have it up to snuff. Can't close without saying what a great time I had at Grayrock,, even though I couldn't stay for the whole thing. It wasreally great to get to meet so many good folks and see some real purtyrods. I'm looking forward to next year already. thanks, and best regards to all - mac from HalManas@aol.com Wed Jun 28 22:55:54 2000 e5T3trG27553 Subject: Urethane Bond HELP,I am trying to find a source for Urethane Bond to use as a ferrule cement. I have been searching on the web and I came across a posting from the archives from Feb. 11, 2000 from Harry Boyd responding to Bill Hoy concerning ferrule cement. Harry suggests that he "order two tubes of the Urethane Bond that Ray Gould recommends for $7.50." Order it from where? Can anyone help with this?Thanks, Hal Manas from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 28 23:15:32 2000 e5T4FVG27946 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:15:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Urethane Bond Hal,Glad I can help. Try this email addy - RON CORNELL Below is the message they sent me some time ago: Hi Harry,I recieved your inquiry about our U-Bond adhesive. Yes, it is now available To process your order, I need:Complete mailing address-no PO box.Is this a residential or business address?Phone #,Our method of payment is Net 30. Have a great day!Shannon from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 28 23:17:17 2000 e5T4HHG28090 Subject: Re: Leonard Tapers John,Sorry. Looks like I was confused. What threw me off was that theindex ofthe archived rods in Frank's Hexrod lists the rod you measured as a 2 piece,insteadof as the three piece you posted. Didn't mean to imply that you fouled up!Another thing I've learned is that the Leonard 50 DF came in severaldifferentvariations. Though I don't have any original Leonard catalogs, I stronglysuspectthat they were listed by weight. Something like 3- 7/8 oz. 50 DF; -- 4-1/8 oz.50 DF;-- and 4-5/8 oz 50 DF. Like lots of other old classic tapers, (para 15, forexample)I've seen several VERY different tapers for Leonard 50DF's. The one I like somuchhas tips of only .060" rather than the .075 and .079 tips you measured.Too often we compare apples to oranges. The Dickerson tapers in JackHowell's book are good examples of multiple tapers for the same rod. Harry channer wrote: The one I posted was taken directly from a Leonard Model 50 df, originalmarkings on the rod said so.John from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 28 23:35:05 2000 e5T4Z4G28509 Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:35:04 -0700 Subject: Re: a good man Chris,Like others, I never met Mike, but considered him a friend and kindredspirit. As the very unofficial chaplain of the rodmakers list, would you pleasepass along our prayers and best wishes to Mike's family?Hey, here's an idea folks -- maybe we could start a little (very little)fund to send flowers, or at least greeting cards, to list members or theirfamilies when there is a crisis... I'd be glad to do the paperwork. Harry Boyd "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote: rodmakers - sunday evening our friend mike leitheiser died suddenly. mikehad just finnished his first cane rod, and was working with new strips forhis next rod when it happened. He was young and in good health, so thenewsis quite a shock. i don't know how many of you all knew him, but he was a fequentcontributorto this list. he was also an excellent photographer, good fisherman andsteelheader, and an all around good guy. worldforestry center here in portland, at 6:30 PM. he's really gonna be missed. christopher o --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jun 29 05:52:54 2000 e5TAqrG02513 (204.186.33.88) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: 7'6" dilema marty wrote: Hi All, I got this rod in for repair about 9 months ago (the guycracked a hook dig in Montana) . After the repair I test casted it witha #4 line. It was probably the finest 71/2'er I have ever cast . Mediumto medium/fast action.So I miked it and took some measurements. Here itis. (I do not know exactly which model it was, but it's sweet!Post Fire Leonard 71/2' 3pc. #4/5 (measured over varnish ,deduct .003)Tip Mid Butt00 .068 .161 .23505 .088 .173 .24910 .107 .191 .26415 .126 .197 .27020 .145 .203 .27525 .147 .215 .275? under grip30 .160 .225 .275?under grip Guide spacing from smaller end of each sectiontip mid butt4" 1 5/8" 5 3/4" (stripper)10" 9 3/4"17" 18"24" 26 1/2" 5 1/2" grip 3 3/8" seatMartyMarty, Please send me Your taper.What is the rod like, fast, slow, parabolic...... regardsdanny marty wrote: I like the 71/2' #4/5 Granger Taper. It's hard to beat. I recentlymiked a 71/2' 3pc. #4/5 Leonard post fire that casted great. I willpostthe taper if anyone is interested. Marty from channer1@rmi.net Thu Jun 29 06:09:51 2000 e5TB9oG02856 Subject: Re: Leonard Tapers Harry Boyd wrote: John,Sorry. Looks like I was confused. What threw me off was that theindex ofthe archived rods in Frank's Hexrod lists the rod you measured as a 2piece, insteadof as the three piece you posted. Didn't mean to imply that you fouled up!Another thing I've learned is that the Leonard 50 DF came in severaldifferentvariations. Though I don't have any original Leonard catalogs, I stronglysuspectthat they were listed by weight. Something like 3- 7/8 oz. 50 DF; -- 4-1/8oz. 50 DF;-- and 4-5/8 oz 50 DF. Like lots of other old classic tapers, (para 15, forexample)I've seen several VERY different tapers for Leonard 50DF's. The one I likeso muchhas tips of only .060" rather than the .075 and .079 tips you measured.Too often we compare apples to oranges. The Dickerson tapers inJackHowell's book are good examples of multiple tapers for the same rod. Harry Harry;I have an advanced case of CRS these days, most of the time I'm lucky toremember the way home. I didn't go all the way to the taper either, Iguess the program screwed up when it listed it as a 2 piece,I'm the onewho's sorry, I thought it was a 2 pc. I didn't notice when I checkedback whether it mentioned that the rod looked like it had had anovercoat of varnish on it, rather poorly done with brush marks all overit, I would deduct about .006- .008. I asked Ron Kusse about all thedifferent tapers for the same model rod, he said that at Leonard andmost other companies, the tapers underwent a constant evolution.John from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jun 29 06:55:29 2000 e5TBtMG03426 Subject: Richard, James, Greg Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01BFE213.E2FAB380" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BFE213.E2FAB380 Greg : I have one of Tony's rods, and it is a beauty, with a wet tip and =a very fast and responsive dry tip. So I am not serious when I scoff at =the sans node brigade. Just seems to me to be a lot of work to scarf all = Richard : I don't fish much in the salt, but last year I made a Canadian =Canoe to take up with me to Far North Queensland, and I caught several =fish of several species with it. It was fine, just washed it and the =reel (an Abel #1 with a bonefish taper and gelspun backing) in plenty of =running water, and dried it carefully. FNQ is a pretty humid and hot =enviro, so used one of REC's ventilated-cap tubes to house it in the ute =(er, pickup, I guess) while travelling. No problems at all. James : My friend and I clamped and drilled and tapped the holes, and in =fact did all the preparation, leaving the groove till last. We used =Jarrah, a local hard wood. Then, to cut the groove we mounted a 60 =degree router bit in a bench router, set it for the minimum depth of cut =(we did a tip groove on one side and a butt groove on the other. As you =do), and the shimmed the forms at 5 even intervals along their length =with measured shims underneath; the just ran the router cut straight =down the forms. Worked well.Someone may well shoot me down here, but it seems to me that absolute =accuracy is not all that critical in this process, as the depth is, =after all, adjustable.It is, however, ABSOLUTELY critical that you align the job accurately =with the router tool so as to preserve symmetry.One other interesting point is that my steel forms are made of 1" square =bar stock, and the weight difference is amazing. I practically give =myself a hernia every time I have to move the steel ones. Please be sure to let me know how you get on. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BFE213.E2FAB380 Greg : I have one of Tony's rods, and = beauty, with a wet tip and a very fast and responsive dry tip. So I am = serious when I scoff at the sans node brigade. Just seems to me= lot of work to scarf all those joints. Richard : I don't fish much in the = washed it and the reel (an Abel #1 with a bonefish taper and gelspun = plenty of running water, and dried it carefully. FNQ is a pretty humid = enviro, so used one of REC's ventilated-cap tubes to house it in the ute = pickup, I guess) while travelling. No problems at all. James : My friend and I clamped and = tapped the holes, and in fact did all the preparation, leaving the = last. We used Jarrah, a local hard wood. Then, to cut the groove we = degree router bit in a bench router, set it for the minimum depth of cut = a tip groove on one side and a butt groove on the other. As you do), and = shimmed the forms at 5 even intervals along their length with measured = well.Someone may well shoot me down here,= to me that absolute accuracy is not all that critical in this process, = depth is, after all, adjustable.It is, however, ABSOLUTELY critical = the job accurately with the router tool so as to preserve =symmetry.One other interesting point is that my = are made of 1" square bar stock, and the weight difference is amazing. I = ones. Please be sure to let me know how you= on. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BFE213.E2FAB380-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jun 29 06:57:40 2000 e5TBvcG03583 Subject: Oops Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE214.372ECAE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE214.372ECAE0 Oops! Bret, not Greg. Sorry.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE214.372ECAE0 Oops! Bret, not Greg. =Sorry.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFE214.372ECAE0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jun 29 07:02:34 2000 e5TC2XG03789 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:03:49 -0500 Subject: Re: moisture in older rods You can get silica gel crystals at florist suppliers, or craft stores.Storing the sections in a closed tube with this desiccant, should do thetrick taking the excess moisture out. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: moisture in older rods Seems like it has been discussed before that if you keep an unfinishedrod in a humid area like a basement, it will go soft and not holdstraightness. I've got a couple of old rods that I'm working on that Istripped a while back, and now it seems that the tips will hold whateverset I put on them - without heating. :-( Do you suppose I could run them through my heatgun oven to restore thetemper without screwing up the glue? Maybe at long, low temps? Willthat restore the temper to the cane if I do, or if not, is there someother way at this point?? Or, am I just outa luck? One's just a wall hanger for a neighbor, so it's not a big deal, but Iwanted to fish the other one to see what one of the old 9 footers wouldbe like, so I'd kinda like to have it up to snuff. Can't close without saying what a great time I had at Grayrock,, even though I couldn't stay for the whole thing. It wasreally great to get to meet so many good folks and see some real purtyrods. I'm looking forward to next year already. thanks, and best regards to all - mac from brookie@frii.com Thu Jun 29 08:52:16 2000 e5TDqGG06334 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods (long) A couple of weeks ago, Bob M. was writing about rejuvenating the silk line... since I saw the name "Cortland", I stopped and read the post. I dashedoff an email , including forwards of some of the posts re the subject of"Why doesn't Cortland get into the silk line business" to the former CEO ofCortland (believe for almost 50 years) who some of you may know. Quitethe gentleman, still living in New York state yet drives each summer toMontana to flyfish and enjoy. Apologies as I know this thread died out and/or if someone else providedthe same input. I know Leon won't mind if I snip and paste his response tome ... always wonderful to hear from the 'other' generation before us onthe history of aspects of flyfishing, don't you think ? *G* If any ofyou wishes to contact him privately re this subject or any other, drop me apersonal email. SUE But first, Bob had said in part : Some of you guys (and gals) know I am awaiting 30+ lines from Phoenix from a buy I organized from this list. Almost all orders were for line sizes 3, 4, and 5 and all but 3 were double tapers. Hell, if Cortland or SA will make a bonefish or a musky taper, why not try rejuvenating the silk line? (How many Musky lines can they sell?) I bet there are enoughserious trout fishermen who would at least try it. If a market was not out there, I am sure Winston and T&T would haveclosed their cane shops up a long time ago. It is up to the best of the independent builders like Jeff Wagner and others to bring the pleasure of silk lines back. ...snip... Why shouldn't Cortland or someone else want to get a piece of that market? If Mike Brooks at Phoenix can only make 600 lines a year, why is Cortland not trying to pick up the slack or trying to get those 600 line sales? I am surprised that big business has stayed out this long. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ So, unofficially, and not speaking for the Cortland company, but to me/us,Leon gives us some 'history' and sez : Sue: How nice to hear from you again! And I have read, with interest,the exchanges on the subject of silk fly lines .... When I joinedCortland, and the fishing tackle industry in December 1941 - all premiumfly lines were made of braided silk, oil impregnated. Cheaper level flylines were "lacquered" with some kind of surface coating. Rememberingthose old silk fly lines.... I can't imagine why anyone would want to goback to using them again! If you were going to be fishing all day, it was necessary to carry aseparate reel, with a fresh line -- because the first line would, over aperiod of a few hours, become "waterlogged" and wouldn't float for dryfly fishing. This was because the oils would absorb water - and aftera time, one would have to substitute the fresh line. Then, at the endof the day, one would string the watrlogged line around the bushes andallow it to dry out -- and before using again, it had to be "dressed"with line dressing, to apply a film that would impede the waterabsorption process for a time. The oiled lines had to be kept away fromhigher than normal temperatures - otherwise, they would "bleed" andbecome sticky - almost unuseable until they were reconditioned. Unlike the modern lines of today -- the center braid was tapered. Thiswas a rather complicated procedure. Using modified 16 carrier braidingmachines, an operator would begin with 16 small threads that wouldprovide the diameter wanted for the size of the tip of the line... toaccomplish the tapered shape up to the body of the line, the operatorwould remove small threads, and replace them with larger threads.. on acarefully planned procedure - but always 16 threads...Once the bodydiameter was reached, the braider would run to the other end for theother end of the Double Tapered line.. then the reverse happened... shewould take out larger threads, and replace them with smaller threads -so the diameter tapered down... DT lines were always 30 yards inlength. One operator would run a bank of 8 braiding machines... shewould move from one to another to make her thread splices...During aneight hour shift - she could braid one double tapered line permachine... - or, she would make only eight DT lines during her eighthour shift. So - just tapering the center braid was very laborintensive - but in those days, the wages were about 35 cents an hour.Even if the technology existed today (which it doesn't) imagine the costin todays labor market. Braiding was only the beginning of making an oil impregnated flyline.... then it had to be finished.... the braided lines were kept in"skeins" - perhaps 20 of them end-to-end. In our finishing department,we had a special oven -- three stories high. The skein of tapered braidwould be fed into an oil bath (linseed oil, tung oil were the mainingredients) after dipping down around a rotating sheve at the bottomof the oil pan, the line would be fed into the oven and travel to thetop - three stories up - over another sheve, and back down.. into theoil pan again, and back in and up the oven.... over and over again... Atsome point, the oil would run down the vertical strand and it would getout-of-round -- so the skein was taken off and run through a centerlessgrinder to make it round again... before going back through the oil/ovenagain... It took days to complete a skein of tapered lines.... thenthey were coiled, and packaged for the market. Cortlands premium brandwas named Ivanhoe. There is no one at Cortland who was there when oil impregnated lineswere made... I was probably the last one. None of the modified braidersexist any more.. and the oil pans and the oven were dismantled manyyears ago. So - any attempt to resurrect making oil impregnated silk flylines would be a major undertaking - and, in my opinion, the marketisn't there.....I believe that the nostalgia mostly exists with peoplewho never had to use oiled lines (or gut leaders) - Further - I think that the development of the modern synthetic coatedfly lines has been a major factor in the growth in popularity of flyfishing as a sport. I was there when the whole thing began -- back in1953.... Didn't intend for this dissertation to be so lengthy.... but maybe youwill find it to be of interest... Leon ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ from harms1@prodigy.net Thu Jun 29 09:16:03 2000 e5TEG2G07082 Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:16:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Waterlox for Rod Finish Alec, Anything will be better than straight tung oil, since it offers very littlein theway of protection. I have never used the Waterlox on bamboo, but Iknow that gunsmiths often use it to finish fine stocks, and I have recentlyused it to finish about 1200 sf. of cherry flooring in my house. It is anextremely durable product, and offers a high level of protection if youapply two or more coats (brushed). Surface protection comes from the resins and the cross-polymerizationprocess of curing and is not really provided by the tung oil all by itself. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Waterlox for Rod Finish Hey Folks,Does anyone have any experiance with Waterlox original finish as offered if this product, with the addition of the phenolic resins, offers animprovement over straight tung oil.Any feedback is much appreciated. My first order of Cane from Demerastarrived yesterday - even just putting the preliminary drying splits ineachculm was a thrill - I'm off and running! Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Jun 29 09:47:34 2000 e5TElXG08344 Subject: Silk Lines Sue:Thanks for sharing Leon's comments re: Silk Fly Lines.Ed from rkrees@mcn.net Thu Jun 29 09:56:16 2000 e5TEuFG08913 Subject: Leon boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFE1A8.3522ED60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFE1A8.3522ED60 thanks Sue it is always good to hear one of CD's StoriesRon (Rcat) ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFE1A8.3522ED60 StoriesRon (Rcat) ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFE1A8.3522ED60-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Jun 29 10:22:38 2000 e5TFMbG09986 2000 08:22:39 PDT Subject: Re: Leon I agree that it is nice to have the input. Still, he failed todampen my great anticipation of the silk I ordered through BobMalucci. It sounded like most of Leon's concerns were on tehproduction side. Thank goodness for Phoenix. --- "Ronnie L. Rees" wrote:thanks Sue it is always good to hear one of CD's StoriesRon (Rcat) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jun 29 12:42:41 2000 e5THgeG14821 Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:42:37 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: moisture in older rods Ralph,a safe alternative is to hang the rod sections in a heated varnishdrying cabinet for awhile if you have one. I do this regularly even with myown personal varnished rods once in a while.If you don't have a drying cabinet but want one, I posted a verysimple/cheap one to my bulletin board, if you are interested here is thelink.... www.shawnsbamboopage.eboard.com Shawn Pineo Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Seems like it has been discussed before that if you keep an unfinishedrod in a humid area like a basement, it will go soft and not holdstraightness. I've got a couple of old rods that I'm working on that Istripped a while back, and now it seems that the tips will hold whateverset I put on them - without heating. :-( Do you suppose I could run them through my heatgun oven to restore thetemper without screwing up the glue? Maybe at long, low temps? Willthat restore the temper to the cane if I do, or if not, is there someother way at this point?? Or, am I just outa luck? One's just a wall hanger for a neighbor, so it's not a big deal, but Iwanted to fish the other one to see what one of the old 9 footers wouldbe like, so I'd kinda like to have it up to snuff. Can't close without saying what a great time I had at Grayrock,, even though I couldn't stay for the whole thing. It wasreally great to get to meet so many good folks and see some real purtyrods. I'm looking forward to next year already. thanks, and best regards to all - mac from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jun 29 13:00:28 2000 e5TI0RG15395 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods (long) Hi Sue and list:Thanks for the fascinating history. It was nice to see a bit inside of what went on there. As far as the market goes, I have 33 on order and just got a few more requests today. I guess that there are still some people out there who want silk. Maybe Cortland could work on a plastic line for bamboo? I never saw the McKenzie lines, but it was nice to see a line company try. Maybe bumpy surfaced, a bit thinner, and more supple. Is that an idea just as crazy as reviving silk?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from brewer@teleport.com Thu Jun 29 15:13:27 2000 e5TKDQG20105 via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0KrVq8; Thu Jun 29 13:13:212000 Subject: Fw: silk lines and $150 rods (long) I bought a McKenzie "bamboo" line but have no idea why it would be better DT5! Randy ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods (long) Hi Sue and list:Thanks for the fascinating history. It was nice to see a bit inside ofwhatwent on there. As far as the market goes, I have 33 on order and just gotafew more requests today. I guess that there are still some people outtherewho want silk. Maybe Cortland could work on a plastic line for bamboo? Inever saw the McKenzie lines, but it was nice to see a line company try.Maybe bumpy surfaced, a bit thinner, and more supple. Is that an idea justas crazy as reviving silk?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jun 29 15:36:27 2000 e5TKaQG21037 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: seeking lost souls If Rich Colo and Dan Clooney are out there, can you guys get a hold of me? Sorry for the bandwith.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jun 29 16:46:45 2000 e5TLkiG22954 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:46:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Waterlox for Rod Finish Sounds interesting. Where is it sold ? Is it a 2 part mix ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Waterlox for Rod Finish Alec, Anything will be better than straight tung oil, since it offers verylittlein theway of protection. I have never used the Waterlox on bamboo, but Iknow that gunsmiths often use it to finish fine stocks, and I haverecentlyused it to finish about 1200 sf. of cherry flooring in my house. It is anextremely durable product, and offers a high level of protection if youapply two or more coats (brushed). Surface protection comes from the resins and the cross-polymerizationprocess of curing and is not really provided by the tung oil all byitself. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Alec Stansell" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:03 PMSubject: Waterlox for Rod Finish Hey Folks,Does anyone have any experiance with Waterlox original finish as offered wonderingif this product, with the addition of the phenolic resins, offers animprovement over straight tung oil.Any feedback is much appreciated. My first order of Cane fromDemerastarrived yesterday - even just putting the preliminary drying splits ineachculm was a thrill - I'm off and running! Thanks, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jun 29 18:52:49 2000 e5TNqkG25126 Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:52:37 +0800 Subject: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock It's too bad it's so hard to make a proper point in the FF press. I justarrived home from Greyling where apart from having a *great* time Idiscovered just how much fun Brookies are to catch and also that thefamousHex Hatch is indeed fact not fiction.I really can't see how a bamboo rod can be bettered in the types of fishingI saw while on my trip to the US. Not only are they simply better to use from the casting point of view (preaching to the converted here) but alsothey are simply the best tool for all round stream fishing in theconditions I saw there. The Driggs tapered rod I used almost exclusively on this trip was livelyenough to see just what little trojans the Brookies are but the same rodwas capable of having more than enough guts to handle decent sized brownsboth in the region as well as other places where I'd used the same taper taper can cast with delicacy the smallest of flys up to the obscenly largehex patterns without undue modification of casting style such as I have. One other advantage of a bamboo rod which I hadn't really apreciated untilfishing the Hex Hatches was your ability to estimate with a great degreejust how much line you have in the air as well as better keep your timingwhen casting at night I'd also like to say here just how much I enjoyed my trip to the US ingeneral and meeting all the people I did in particular. It's also a good time to dispel the myth all beer in the US is bad, thereare some nice ones and there is always Guinness when in doubt (maybe Ishould let Spike's know I'm out of town before they re order?).I'd like to publicly appoligise for twice loosing friends in the bush andevading their attempts at finding me, it's a long story and I was not aloneon one occasion but it will all be revealed in time however I will say myfear of banjo playing locals with a strong leaning toward the sound ofsqueeling pigs was totaly unfounded :-) Tony In my dealings with the FF press in the late 80's (naive at best) I had thought that all in the business would be treated with an equal hand. Absolutely not true. Although if all builders would quit their 'real' jobs and produce cane at full speed we would not be able to dent the sales figures of the plastic rod mfg's, they guard their territory jealously through the bloated advertising that they are able to purchase. FF is not immune to the old addage that money talks. A fair test of fishing qualities between the two materials will never be done. The ignorant idea thatcasting distance is the overriding and only criteria of a rod has been deeply ingrained in the newer generation of FF men. My problem is that I firmly believe that bamboo delivers higher quality fishing performance and experience. Their was some talk about forming a bamboo guild so that we could cooperate and dispel many of the myths about bamboo, I am so tiredof explaining that cane CAN be used with weighted flies, you need a heavier reel to balance them and they don't break at the slightest provocation that I am running out of breath, I briefly thought about writing a short pamphlet about the use, care and truth od cane but I don't think I possess the required polish.(maybe someone else?) About the guild idea ,I think the consensus was that we were too cranky as a group to ever cooperate on anything. To return to the original thread, it is immpossible to compete with the multi page full color "feel good" ads. I at first thought we would have to break through the predjudice against and misinformation about cane and we most likely still do, but the larger problem is to be taken seriously by the FF press and that won't happen with the way the large companies muscle us aside. (perhaps with the current administrations profligate use of the anti-trust laws...).A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jun 29 19:04:15 2000 e5U04FG25357 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock Tony,Glad you had a great time in the states. Wish I could have been atGrayling to joined in on the fun, but just too busy in right now, and havethat big trip coming up in August.Oh, and, btw, we keep all the banjos and pig sounds safe and sound herein the southern US. LOL Believe me, there are some places here, that youround the corner on a dirt road and learn to NEVER be shocked at what sceneus before you... like Presbyterian Falls, eh, Harry?!?! Talk about a drivethat'll make you feel like your IN the movie Deliverance! Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock It's too bad it's so hard to make a proper point in the FF press. I justarrived home from Greyling where apart from having a *great* time Idiscovered just how much fun Brookies are to catch and also that thefamousHex Hatch is indeed fact not fiction.I really can't see how a bamboo rod can be bettered in the types of fishingI saw while on my trip to the US. Not only are they simply better to use from the casting point of view (preaching to the converted here) but alsothey are simply the best tool for all round stream fishing in theconditions I saw there. The Driggs tapered rod I used almost exclusively on this trip was livelyenough to see just what little trojans the Brookies are but the same rodwas capable of having more than enough guts to handle decent sized brownsboth in the region as well as other places where I'd used the same taper taper can cast with delicacy the smallest of flys up to the obscenly largehex patterns without undue modification of casting style such as I have. One other advantage of a bamboo rod which I hadn't really apreciated untilfishing the Hex Hatches was your ability to estimate with a great degreejust how much line you have in the air as well as better keep your timingwhen casting at night I'd also like to say here just how much I enjoyed my trip to the US ingeneral and meeting all the people I did in particular.It's also a good time to dispel the myth all beer in the US is bad, thereare some nice ones and there is always Guinness when in doubt (maybe Ishould let Spike's know I'm out of town before they re order?).I'd like to publicly appoligise for twice loosing friends in the bush andevading their attempts at finding me, it's a long story and I was not aloneon one occasion but it will all be revealed in time however I will say myfear of banjo playing locals with a strong leaning toward the sound ofsqueeling pigs was totaly unfounded :-) Tony In my dealings with the FF press in the late 80's (naive at best) I hadthought that all in the business would be treated with an equal hand.Absolutely not true. Although if all builders would quit their 'real' jobsand produce cane at full speed we would not be able to dent the salesfigures of the plastic rod mfg's, they guard their territory jealouslythrough the bloated advertising that they are able to purchase. FF is notimmune to the old addage that money talks. A fair test of fishingqualitiesbetween the two materials will never be done. The ignorant idea thatcastingdistance is the overriding and only criteria of a rod has been deeplyingrained in the newer generation of FF men. My problem is that I firmlybelieve that bamboo delivers higher quality fishing performance andexperience. Their was some talk about forming a bamboo guild so that wecould cooperate and dispel many of the myths about bamboo, I am so tiredofexplaining that cane CAN be used with weighted flies, you need a heavierreel to balance them and they don't break at the slightest provocationthatI am running out of breath, I briefly thought about writing a shortpamphletabout the use, care and truth od cane but I don't think I possess therequired polish.(maybe someone else?) About the guild idea ,I think theconsensus was that we were too cranky as a group to ever cooperate onanything. To return to the original thread, it is immpossible to compete with themulti page full color "feel good" ads. I at first thought we would have tobreak through the predjudice against and misinformation about cane andwemost likely still do, but the larger problem is to be taken seriously bytheFF press and that won't happen with the way the large companies muscleusaside. (perhaps with the current administrations profligate use of theanti-trust laws...).A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jun 29 19:41:30 2000 e5U0fSG25870 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:36:39 -0500 Subject: Penta & Quad rod Updates boundary="----=_NextPart_000_016E_01BFE201.DC2DD8A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016E_01BFE201.DC2DD8A0 List,Thanks to Wayne C. I now know who made the Penta rod that I have. =It is a Herters. Definitely an old one. Well, today for the first =time, I threw my reels on the hood of the car and started trying lines =on it. This thing casts a 4DT like a champ. I couldn't believe the =power that this old 5 sided rod has. It would cast close, cast long, =anything I wanted... almost. The only drawback was shooting line. Oh, =I definitely think the rod is capable of shooting a lot of line, but it =has very very small guides on it, and the 4dt was just too tight in =them. I wish I had a 4wt silk to try on it. I have a 3 and a 5, but =neither are on reels. I'm betting though, that with a nicely finished = Well, I'll never know how much nylon it will shoot, cause =considering it's condition, I'm just going to touch up the very few =chips in the varnish, polish it out and be done with it. I wouldn't =mind using it, and I know the Herters rods aren't worth a great deal of =money, but I still, even with it's gaudy wraps, and cheap hardware, =think I'll leave this one original.Thanks to everyone who responded offlist trying to help me figure =this one out.Same with the Quad I put on here for help to identify. It did turn =out to be an Edwards, although unfortunately not a model 50. Most of =the original hardware was missing, and had to be replaced, but this =thing also was a surprising rod. I had never cast a quad before this =one, and while it was a bit more sluggish than I had anticipated, it = there), I'll stick the Micrometer to this rod before I start touching up =the varnish. There are a few places the varnish is missing to bare =cane, so I can give you a true reading, since that will let me know how =thick the varnish really is. Thanks to all for your help on both of these rods. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_016E_01BFE201.DC2DD8A0 List, the = today for the first time, I threw my reels on the hood of the car and = but it has very very small guides on it, and the 4dt was just too tight = cause considering it's condition, I'm just going to touch up the very = it, and I know the Herters rods aren't worth a great deal of money, but = even with it's gaudy wraps, and cheap hardware, think I'll leave this = original. = never cast a quad before this one, and while it was a bit more sluggish = Builders out there), I'll stick the Micrometer to this rod before I = bare cane, so I can give you a true reading, since that will let me know = thick the varnish really is. Thanks to all for your help on both of these rods. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_016E_01BFE201.DC2DD8A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jun 29 20:17:46 2000 e5U1HjG26341 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:19:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Penta & Quad rod Updates Gee Bob, that must be a really old Herter's ! I started buying from them inthe late 1940's/early '50's, and never recall seeing a penta listed. TheUslan was the only one I'd ever heard of as being a commercial product.Great find, and I'll be very interested in the measurements. So much ofHerter's cane rods came from England, I wonder if the penta did too ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Penta & Quad rod Updates List,Thanks to Wayne C. I now know who made the Penta rod that I have. Itis a Herters. Definitely an old one. Well, today for the first time, Ithrew my reels on the hood of the car and started trying lines on it. Thisthing casts a 4DT like a champ. I couldn't believe the power that this old5 sided rod has. It would cast close, cast long, anything I wanted...almost. The only drawback was shooting line. Oh, I definitely think therod is capable of shooting a lot of line, but it has very very small guideson it, and the 4dt was just too tight in them. I wish I had a 4wt silk totry on it. I have a 3 and a 5, but neither are on reels. I'm bettingthough, that with a nicely finished silk line, this thing would shoot asmuch line as I needed.Well, I'll never know how much nylon it will shoot, cause consideringit's condition, I'm just going to touch up the very few chips in thevarnish, polish it out and be done with it. I wouldn't mind using it, and Iknow the Herters rods aren't worth a great deal of money, but I still, evenwith it's gaudy wraps, and cheap hardware, think I'll leave this oneoriginal.Thanks to everyone who responded offlist trying to help me figure thisone out.Same with the Quad I put on here for help to identify. It did turn outto be an Edwards, although unfortunately not a model 50. Most of theoriginal hardware was missing, and had to be replaced, but this thing alsowas a surprising rod. I had never cast a quad before this one, and while itwas a bit more sluggish than I had anticipated, it still was a pleasure tocast. there), I'll stick the Micrometer to this rod before I start touching up thevarnish. There are a few places the varnish is missing to bare cane, so Ican give you a true reading, since that will let me know how thick thevarnish really is. Thanks to all for your help on both of these rods. Bob from oakmere@carol.net Thu Jun 29 20:30:18 2000 e5U1UHG26633 Subject: RE: Removal of Metal Reel Seats Hi James: I have had to just cut them off with a dremel tool. Be sure to take all theeye precautions and wear safety lens glasses. Use one of the thin cutoffwheels and go at it at piece at a time. This assumes you do not wish tosave the seat. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from oakmere@carol.net Thu Jun 29 20:53:02 2000 e5U1r2G27109 Subject: RE: Summer Hi Folks: Sorry to hear about our Bamboo List member Mike. Although I have met onlyafew of the Bamboo list members, maybe each of us might say a prayer whileon a river in the next few weeks as a true rememberance. Best also to myFlyfish friends who also have their own personal burdens. I will be off the lists after today, as I head for my summer vacationcottage - TroutBeck Cottage - in north central Pennsylvania. Our cottage isabove Waterville, PA on Pine Creek at the junction of routes 44 and 414.Will return to the lists mid-August. Will be taking the better-half toMontana for 10 days of some fishing and sightseeing in Yellowstone andGlacier. Will try and get a few days on the Delaware in early August. If anyone is around northcentral PA and wants to fish (water appearsplentiful this year) let me know by sending and email tooakmere@carol.net . Hope you all have a good summer. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jun 29 21:59:17 2000 e5U2xGG28021 Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:59:12 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock Funny, Bob. Before I finished the sentence I knew EXACTLY where you weretalking about. I've made a personal commitment to never, never, never becaughtback at Presbyterian Falls after dark, ever. That's a shame, because thereissome sort of mayfly hatch there almost every single day. Ought to be greatabout dusk. Of course, I know a few other places like that as well. Yououghtavisit the Yellow Banana Bar in LaRose, LA, sometime. Years ago when Iworked ourclients out of there one night. He was buying drinks for the house, and thehouse was NOT happy! Good thing I had the Lord on my side, and also that Ilearned to box in High School. :-) Obligatory rodmaking note: I flamed a culm in a tiger stripe tonight. Surelooks funny to me, but that's what the fellow wants. Harry Bob Nunley wrote: Tony,Glad you had a great time in the states. Wish I could have been atGrayling to joined in on the fun, but just too busy in right now, and havethat big trip coming up in August.Oh, and, btw, we keep all the banjos and pig sounds safe and sound herein the southern US. LOL Believe me, there are some places here, that youround the corner on a dirt road and learn to NEVER be shocked at whatsceneus before you... like Presbyterian Falls, eh, Harry?!?! Talk about a drivethat'll make you feel like your IN the movie Deliverance! from grandriverangler@sprint.ca Thu Jun 29 22:30:18 2000 e5U3UHG28664 Subject: Unsubscribe Rodmakers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BFE221.57C9BBE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BFE221.57C9BBE0 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BFE221.57C9BBE0 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BFE221.57C9BBE0-- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Jun 29 23:47:02 2000 e5U4l1G29578 Subject: Epon Systems Data boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0222_01BFE224.248EC6A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0222_01BFE224.248EC6A0 All,Bill Hoy requested this information, and also suggested that it be =posted to the List. Enjoy! Comparative Analysis of Epon 828 Resin, with Epi-Cure 3140, and 3164 =Curing Agents Composition (parts by weight)ResinEpon 828 =100 100 Curing AgentEpi-Cure 3140 50Epi-Cure 3164 =136(NOTE: Mix components until homogenous. Allow 5-10 minutes induction =time.) Handling Properties @ 25*C (77*F)Resin Viscosity, stated in Poise 125 125 Epi-Cure 3164 =82Blend Viscosity, P 167 =84Gel Time, 100g, min 100 =82(NOTE: Viscosity can vary by 10-15 Poise for each degree in temperature =the product varies from 25* C [77*F]. The gel times indicated are under =laboratory conditions, and are not realistic indicators of actual use.) Mechanical Properties @ 25*C 828/3140 828/3164Tensile Elongation at break, % 4 =189Tensile Modulus, % N/A =168Tear Strength, lb/in N/A =1017Shore "D" Hardness @ 7 days 84 =72(NOTE: Durometer is an international standard for measuring the hardness =of rubber, plastic, and other nonmetallic materials. The Shore "D" scale =is for hard materials such as hard rubber, rigid PVC, nylon, acrylic, =polyurethane, and ABS. For example, a polyurethane bowling ball is rated =at 55, polyurethane table top at 75. A neoprene shoe heel is rated =around 70 on Shore "A", which would not even register on Shore "D". ) Points of Interest Resins may be stored at 120*-140* F indefinitely, and are routinely =shipped at 150* -180*F, however, doing so will decrease the viscosity of =the resin (not permanently), and will dramatically increase the cure =rate.Post curing the resin only serves to accelerate the curing process, and =in no way initiates any other chemical changes, such as cross-linking, =beyond what would normally take place. A common cure schedule is 24 hrs. =@ 25*C, then 100*C for two hours. There are many permutations to be had=within that time/temp range. Following a post cure regimen, say 16 hrs. =@ 25*C, then 100*C for two hours, makes a dramatic difference in lap =shear strength; not that there is not enough as it is for a bamboo rod.A complete cure schedule is 7 days @ 25*C. For each ten degrees above =25*C the cure rate doubles.The heat deflection temperature for 828/3140 is 115*C (240*F), for =828/3164 it is higher.Epi-Cure 3164 imparts highly flexible properties, improved toughness =compared to conventional polyamines (A type of curing agent. 3115, 3125, =3140, 3164 are all polyamines) Improved combinations of elongation, =strength, modulus, abrasion resistance, and tear resistance in =comparison with other "flexibilizing" curing agents.Epi-Cure 3140 should be kept in a tightly closed container, in a cool, =dry place. It is very hygroscopic, and readily absorbs moisture and =carbon dioxide. This may affect viscosity, or create foaming when =reacted with resins.Epi-Cure 3164 is stable, though should be kept in a tightly closed =container to prevent darkening.All epoxies are capable of producing adverse health effects ranging from =minor skin irritation to serious systemic effects. Once systemically =sensitized, always sensitized. Use appropriate precautions when dealing =with any epoxy. Avoid any skin contamination, and the breathing of =fumes. = ------=_NextPart_000_0222_01BFE224.248EC6A0 All,Bill Hoy requested this= and also suggested that it be posted to the List. =Enjoy! Epon 828 Resin, with Epi-Cure 3140, and 3164 Curing =Agents weight) Resin 100 Curing Agent 136(NOTE:= until homogenous. Allow 5-10 minutes induction =time.) Handling = 25*C (77*F) 125 82 82(NOTE:= vary by 10-15 Poise for each degree in temperature the product varies = use.) Tensile= Tensile= Tear = Shore"D" = (NOTE:= international standard for measuring the hardness of rubber, plastic, = nonmetallic materials. The Shore "D" scale is for hard materials such as = rubber, rigid PVC, nylon, acrylic, polyurethane, and ABS. For example, a = polyurethane bowling ball is rated at 55, polyurethane table top at 75. = neoprene shoe heel is rated around 70 on Shore "A", which would not even = register on Shore "D". ) Points = Interest Resins= 120*-140* F indefinitely, and are routinely shipped at 150* -180*F, = doing so will decrease the viscosity of the resin (not permanently), and = dramatically increase the cure rate.Post = only serves to accelerate the curing process, and in no way initiates = = 100*C for two hours. There are many permutations to be had within that = range. Following a post cure regimen, say 16 hrs. @ 25*C, then 100*C for = hours, makes a dramatic difference in lap shear strength; not that there = enough as it is for a bamboo rod.A = schedule is 7 days @ 25*C. For each ten degrees above 25*C the cure rate = doubles.Theheat = higher.Epi-Cure = polyamines (A type of curing agent. 3115, 3125, 3140, 3164 are all = Improved combinations of elongation, strength, modulus, abrasion = agents.Epi-Cure = hygroscopic, and readily absorbs moisture and carbon dioxide. This may = viscosity, or create foaming when reacted with =resins.Epi-Cure = darkening.All = of producing adverse health effects ranging from minor skin irritation = sensitized. Use appropriate precautions when dealing with any epoxy. = any skin contamination, and the breathing of =fumes. ------=_NextPart_000_0222_01BFE224.248EC6A0-- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Jun 29 23:52:59 2000 e5U4qwG29739 Subject: Epon Correction boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0230_01BFE224.F845FEA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BFE224.F845FEA0 All,In yesterdays post to Bill Hoy regarding the thinning of Epon, I =mistakenly gave a cure schedule of 100*F for one hour, 120*F for =two- three hours. This will work, however that is the cure schedule =(along with 50% relative humidity) for the polyurethane finish I use, =not for Epon products. Sorry for the mix-up. Ain't getting older hell? ------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BFE224.F845FEA0 All,In yesterdays post to= regarding the thinning of Epon, I mistakenly gave a cure schedule of = one hour, 120*F for two-three hours. This will work, however that is the = older hell? ------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BFE224.F845FEA0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jun 30 00:01:39 2000 e5U51cG29988 Fri, 30 Jun 2000 02:01:35 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Summer Frank,have a good summer!! I just returned from Reading PA and had ablast! Shawn Pineo "Frank W. Paul" wrote: Hi Folks: Sorry to hear about our Bamboo List member Mike. Although I have metonly afew of the Bamboo list members, maybe each of us might say a prayerwhileon a river in the next few weeks as a true rememberance. Best also to myFlyfish friends who also have their own personal burdens. I will be off the lists after today, as I head for my summer vacationcottage - TroutBeck Cottage - in north central Pennsylvania. Our cottageisabove Waterville, PA on Pine Creek at the junction of routes 44 and 414.Will return to the lists mid-August. Will be taking the better-half toMontana for 10 days of some fishing and sightseeing in Yellowstone andGlacier. Will try and get a few days on the Delaware in early August. If anyone is around northcentral PA and wants to fish (water appearsplentiful this year) let me know by sending and email tooakmere@carol.net . Hope you all have a good summer. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jun 30 07:17:34 2000 e5UCHYG04071 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:17:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock Are you doing it with a pipe and torch Harry ? Or, just flame on the culm ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock Funny, Bob. Before I finished the sentence I knew EXACTLY where you weretalking about. I've made a personal commitment to never, never, never becaughtback at Presbyterian Falls after dark, ever. That's a shame, becausethere issome sort of mayfly hatch there almost every single day. Ought to begreatabout dusk. Of course, I know a few other places like that as well. Yououghtavisit the Yellow Banana Bar in LaRose, LA, sometime. Years ago when Iworked of ourclients out of there one night. He was buying drinks for the house, andthehouse was NOT happy! Good thing I had the Lord on my side, and also thatIlearned to box in High School. :-) Obligatory rodmaking note: I flamed a culm in a tiger stripe tonight.Surelooks funny to me, but that's what the fellow wants. Harry Bob Nunley wrote: Tony,Glad you had a great time in the states. Wish I could have been atGrayling to joined in on the fun, but just too busy in right now, andhavethat big trip coming up in August.Oh, and, btw, we keep all the banjos and pig sounds safe and soundherein the southern US. LOL Believe me, there are some places here, thatyouround the corner on a dirt road and learn to NEVER be shocked at whatsceneus before you... like Presbyterian Falls, eh, Harry?!?! Talk about adrivethat'll make you feel like your IN the movie Deliverance! from harms1@prodigy.net Fri Jun 30 11:47:40 2000 e5UGldG12460 Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:47:37 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods (long) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BFE290.F066CC20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BFE290.F066CC20 All, A couple years back a friend and I each bought a McKenzie line and used =them for one evening only, and back they went!! We also liked the =color with our bamboo rods, but the line itself is just AWFUL! It has =a horrid "memory," and remained full of coils and kinks all evening =despite everything we tried. (And, yes, we were careful to unwind =directly from the spool to the reel.) Secondly, the line is touted as having a slightly "pebbled" finish for =the purpose of creating less friction and shooting farther. BULL!! The =finish is "pebbled" alright, but is sounded and felt more like sandpaper =going through the guides than anything else. And the four-weight will =not shoot worth a damn on the seven-foot rods we were using. Maybe a =heavier line on a more powerful rod would produce diffrent results--I =don't know. Lastlly, as we approached the twilight hours and the hatch came on, the =color of the line began to work against us, because we could not see the =line against the treed backdrop. It became camoflaged and we were =casting, essentially, blind. Oh well, the dealer was good enough to give us our money back, claiming =he had never heard of such complaints before. Maybe not, but that was = cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Subject: Fw: silk lines and $150 rods (long) I bought a McKenzie "bamboo" line but have no idea why it would be =better 444DT5! Randy ----- Original Message -----From: "bob maulucci" Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 11:00 AMSubject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods (long) Hi Sue and list:Thanks for the fascinating history. It was nice to see a bit inside =ofwhatwent on there. As far as the market goes, I have 33 on order and =just gotafew more requests today. I guess that there are still some people =outtherewho want silk. Maybe Cortland could work on a plastic line for =bamboo? Inever saw the McKenzie lines, but it was nice to see a line company =try.Maybe bumpy surfaced, a bit thinner, and more supple. Is that an = as crazy as reviving silk?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= downandacross.combob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BFE290.F066CC20 All, A couple years back afriend = bought a McKenzie line and used them for one evening only, and back they = reel.) Secondly, the line is touted= slightly "pebbled" finish for the purpose of creating less friction and = results--I don't know. Lastlly, as we approachedthe = hours and the hatch came on, the color of the line began to work = became camoflaged and we were casting, essentially, =blind. Oh well, the dealer wasgood = give us our money back, claiming he had never heard of such cheers, =Bill-----------------------------------------------------Clic= here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/= ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 29,2000 = PMSubject: Fw: silk lines and = (long) = = few more requests today. I guess that there are still some people = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BFE290.F066CC20-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jun 30 14:59:22 2000 e5UJxLG17616 Subject: FAOL List, I was just in looking at FlyAnglers on Line and there was a smiley face saying there is to be a major announcement next week on TBBFR mag. Looks like we will finally get some good news here on the magazine. I hope it boads well for all involved and we get a good magazine for our craft.Bret from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jun 30 16:08:03 2000 e5UL82G19475 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:03:12 -0500 Subject: Toning cane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C8_01BFE2AC.E7C71720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01BFE2AC.E7C71720 Someone was asking not too long ago about browntoning cane. Well, I =built a new heat treating oven today and have been playing with it all =afternoon and tried heat toning the bamboo... Just heat, not with =Ammonia or Ammonia Chloride. I did this with extra beveled strips that =I had laying around and scanned in a picture of what I ended up with, = The top strip in the picture was just normally heat treated at 375 = same way, then after cooling, was put back in the oven. I left it in = better and more even than I expected. Next worry was "What did it do to =the cane?" It definitely had to be bent to an extreme to break and when =it did, it broke the way I like heat treated cane to break, in long =splinters. You can see the break and it's characteristics at =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/breaktst.jpg Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01BFE2AC.E7C71720 built a new heat treating oven today and have been playing with it all = and tried heat toning the bamboo... Just heat, not with Ammonia or = and scanned in a picture of what I ended up with, for those = you want to see the picture, it's at http://members.clnk= treated the same way, then after cooling, was put back in the = it do to the cane?" It definitely had to be bent to an extreme to = when it did, it broke the way I like heat treated cane to break, in long = .com/caneman/breaktst.jpg Bob = Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm= ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01BFE2AC.E7C71720-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Jun 30 16:42:53 2000 e5ULgqG20256 Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:42:47 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Toning cane boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3045339777_354818_MIME_Part" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3045339777_354818_MIME_Part Bob, I've been doing the same with my last rods. I want my cane to be as dark aspossiblewithout being to brittle to plan. I like the way it looks, and I think therods gets extracrisp. I started it after my mentor told me how a original PHY Perfectionisthe had waslike. He have made several Perfectionist, and none of them was as "fast" asthe realthing.... BTW, pretty heavy downloading the last page (breaktst.jpg) 8" longest side72dpiis enough.......... regardsdanny -------Work Subject: Toning cane Someone was asking not too long ago about browntoning cane. Well, I built anew heat treating oven today and have been playing with it all afternoon andtried heat toning the bamboo... Just heat, not with Ammonia or AmmoniaChloride. I did this with extra beveled strips that I had laying around andscanned in a picture of what I ended up with, for those intersted. If youwant to see the picture, it's athttp://members.clnk..com/caneman/heattret.jpg..The top strip in the picture was just normally heat treated at 375 for 8minutes. The piece on bottom had previously been heat treated the sameway,then after cooling, was put back in the oven. I left it in for one hour at330 degrees. I definitely got a nice dark brown tone, better and more eventhan I expected. Next worry was "What did it do to the cane?" It definitelyhad to be bent to an extreme to break and when it did, it broke the way Ilike heat treated cane to break, in long splinters. You can see the breakand it's characteristics at http://members.clnk..com/caneman/breaktst.jpg Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm --MS_Mac_OE_3045339777_354818_MIME_Part Re: Toning cane Bob, I've been doing the same with my last rods. I want my cane to be as dark as=possiblewithout being to brittle to plan. I like the way it looks, and I think the =rods gets extracrisp. I started it after my mentor told me how a original PHY Perfectionis=t he had waslike. He have made several Perfectionist, and none of them was as"fas=t" as the realthing.... lo=ngest side 72dpiis enough.......... regardsdanny <dannyt@frisurf.no= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:04:43 -0500 <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Subject: Toning cane Someone was asking not too long ago about browntoningcane. &nb=sp;Well, I built a new heat treating oven today and have been playing with i=t all afternoon and tried heat toning the bamboo... Just heat, not withAmmo= ad laying around and scanned in a picture of what I ended up with, for those= k..com/caneman/heattret.jpg<http://members.clnk.com/caneman/heattret.jpg= trea= heat=treated the same way, then after cooling, was put back in the oven. "=;What did it do to the cane?" It definitely had to be bent to an extrem=e to break and when it did, it broke the way I like heat treated cane to bre= at http://members.clnk..com/caneman/breaktst.jpg<http://members.clnk.com= Bob Custom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm --MS_Mac_OE_3045339777_354818_MIME_Part-- from channer1@rmi.net Fri Jun 30 18:31:04 2000 e5UNV3G22095 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods (long) WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, A couple years back a friend and I each bought a McKenzie line andused them for one evening only, and back they went!! We also likedthe color with our bamboo rods, but the line itself is just AWFUL! Ithas a horrid "memory," and remained full of coils and kinks allevening despite everything we tried. (And, yes, we were careful tounwind directly from the spool to the reel.) Secondly, the line is touted as having a slightly "pebbled" finish forthe purpose of creating less friction and shooting farther. BULL!!The finish is "pebbled" alright, but is sounded and felt more likesandpaper going through the guides than anything else. And thefour-weight will not shoot worth a damn on the seven-foot rods we wereusing. Maybe a heavier line on a more powerful rod would producediffrent results--I don't know. Lastlly, as we approached the twilight hours and the hatch came on,the color of the line began to work against us, because we could notsee the line against the treed backdrop. It became camoflaged and wewere casting, essentially, blind. Oh well, the dealer was good enough to give us our money back,claiming he had never heard of such complaints before. Maybe not, butthat was pretty hard for me to believe. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Bill;I've been using the McKenzie Bamboo lines for a couple of years now. Ihave a 4 dt and a 5dt, and I agree, they have horrible memory, but afterthe line hangs downstream from me for a bit, it straightens out. I likethe way they cast on my rods, maybe that says more about my casting thanit does about the lines, I don't seem to have any trouble shooting linewith them, maybe I could shoot more with another line. I'll probablyditch the 4 wt when my Phoenix arrives, and I am checking out the fleamarkets and junk shops hoping to find an HEH silk line, they really docast better, and it is dry enough here in the southwest for a silk lineto dry out over lunch break.John from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jun 30 18:48:18 2000 e5UNmIG22458 Subject: Re: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo and the press & Greyrock Big Snip . . . I will say my fear of banjo playing locals with a strong leaningtoward the sound ofsqueeling pigs was totaly unfounded :-) Tony That is because you were in Michigan, not Arkansas. Come to SRG 2000. from jsbond@inforamp.net Fri Jun 30 23:02:17 2000 e6142GG25419 Subject: Listserv help please!!! I would like to set myself to not get mail (set rodmakers nomail). What isthe listserv address? JB from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jun 30 23:03:38 2000 e6143bG25524 Subject: Re: silk lines and $150 rods (long) Bill, and others, Earlier this week a friend (Bob Perry offlysupplies.com) sent me one of the new Airflow lines as ademo. It is definitely different. The core is mono, not ahollow braid. The line seems smooth. They call the taper"Delta," and it's a lot like the Triangle Taper lines.Yesterday afternoon I put the 4/5 weight line on areel, and gave it a try out in the yard. I was more than alittle bit impressed. Its suppleness allows it to handlevery well in close. I can throw curve casts, (at least tothe left -- never learned to throw a curve to the right)slack casts, reach mends, etc. On the Leonard 50DF I built,the line really shines brightest in distance casting. Firsttry, with a little single haul, I shot line out to 26 steps(78 feet). For me, that's nearly a record.Next week it gets the on the water test. I'll postfurther feedback soon. The line comes with a 5 year nocrack guarantee, and anyone looking at buying new linesmight want to consider this one.No affiliation, etc., other than the one demo line Igot. Harry Boyd WILLIAM HARMS wrote: A couple years back a friend and I each bought a McKenzieline and used them for one evening only, and back theywent!! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jun 30 23:06:48 2000 e6146mG25711 Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:06:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Listserv help please!!! Try this one JB: "WUSTL ListProc" Harry Boyd James Bond wrote: I would like to set myself to not get mail (set rodmakers nomail). What isthe listserv address? JB --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/