from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jul 1 08:12:31 2000 e61DCUG03580 Subject: Drift Boats - Way off topic Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and have built several small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and it re-kindled an interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats short and wide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long and skinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on? Also, I can't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them but never seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Are plans or drawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontact me off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jul 1 08:55:59 2000 e61DtwG04755 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A98B930200BA; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 10:00:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Tom,Let me try a shot at this. BK - Before Kids - I too enjoyed wooden boats,canoes, kayaks, and pulling boats in the open ocean.The Mackenzie drift boat is short and has an extreme rocker (deeper inthemiddle than the ends) for the same reason that whitewater kayaks do, highmaneuverablilty in rapids. You can spin one of these drift boats quickly tocatcha chute or avoid a rock and their high profile prevented waves fromswampingthem. I don't believe they are descendents of the batteaux, but weredesignedspecifically for this application. The most similar design is the Grand Banksdory, which was used on the open ocean, in some very rough water.The Ausable guide boats, like the batteaux, are made to track well on calmwater, to pole upstream or down (impossible with a drift boat), are narrowandshallow draft for navigating small streams, keep a low profile to avoidcatchingwind on open water, yet are long enough to carry lots of supplies. Thestreams ofcentral Michigan, like, I assume, the LA bayous, have a very low gradient andrapids are not a significant problem. You wouldn't use one of these in rapidsabove Class II ------------------------------------------------Class II: Novice. Straightforward rapids with wide, clear channels which areevident withoutscouting. Occasional maneuvering may be required, but rocks and mediumsizedwaves areeasily missed by trained paddlers. Swimmers are seldom injured and groupassistance, whilehelpful, is seldom needed. Class III: Intermediate. Rapids with moderate, irregular waves which may bedifficult to avoidand which can swamp an open canoe. Complex maneuvers in fast current andgoodboat controlin tight passages or around ledges are often required; large waves orstrainersmay be presentbut are easily avoided. Strong eddies and powerful current effects can befound,particularly onlarge- volume rivers. Scouting is advisable for inexperienced parties. Injurieswhile swimming arerare; self-rescue is usually easy but group assistance may be required toavoidlong swims.--------------------------------------------- because, and Wayne or Sam can correct me, "complex maneuvers in fastcurrent"would be very difficult. Wooden Boat magazine probably has the plans for both.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and havebuiltseveral small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and it re- kindledan interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats short andwide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long andskinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on? Also, Ican't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them butnever seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Are plansordrawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontactme off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 1 10:55:56 2000 e61FttG06164 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: air filtration boundary="=====================_11043798==_.ALT" --=====================_11043798==_.ALT I recently bought a Rigid air filtration system (portable) for my shop. It has cut down on the number of dust specs I get in the finish by about half (or better).Has anyone had experience with putting a small air filtration unit in their drying cabinet? Is the exhaust end of such a machine just going to circulate the dust even more? Any pros or cons would be greatlyappreciated.I use a plastic Rubbermaid cabinet (with only two shelves in the top) as the drying cabinet and it works well. However, there is some dust in there that has been known to seek out the varnished sections when they are drying out and still tacky. silk lines for drying after a days fishing.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_11043798==_.ALT I recently bought a Rigid air filtration system (portable) formy shop. It has cut down on the number of dust specs I get in the finish Has anyone had experience with putting a small air filtration unitin their drying cabinet? Is the exhaust end of such a machine just goingto circulate the dust even more? Any pros or cons would be greatlyappreciated.I use a plastic Rubbermaid cabinet (with only two shelves in thetop) as the drying cabinet and it works well. However, there is some dustin there that has been known to seek out the varnished sections when theyare drying out and still tacky. put my silk lines for drying after a days fishing.Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_11043798==_.ALT-- from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Jul 1 11:49:55 2000 e61GntG07060 Subject: Re: air filtration Bob: this is for the "what its worth dept". My dip station is approx 14 x 14 with loose door consisting of frame and plex. I made a box to pull air thru a pleated filter thence thru a heppa type filter (courtesy of Wayne Cattanach). Use two small muffin type fans for that but most any fan might do. I like them because they are low speed and quiet. The fans then push the air out the top of the box, thru a clothes dryer vent tube (coil wire and vinyl) into the top of my dip station. This pressurizes the station slightly and carries any intruding dust out thru the cracks around the door. Have some hooks at the top, so can do up to a couple of rods and leave remaining in the dip station overnight, thence into my drying cabinet the next day. I leave the fan on as long as possible after dipping, then set my 1-hr timer very difficult to make. Often (but not always) get complete rods w/o any specs of any kind - the filters work quite well. Hope this helps. Best regards, Richard Tyree from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jul 1 12:34:42 2000 e61HYfG07714 Sat, 1 Jul 2000 14:34:38 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: air filtration boundary="------------98AD78ABC677309670E436F6" --------------98AD78ABC677309670E436F6 Bob,one other thing I do to my cabinet , mind you it is Plexiglas,but I think would still work with your plastic Rubbermaid cabinet's thatI rub the door and walls with a sheep wool patch. The static pulls anydust that does happen to be around onto the plexi. Just a hint I pickedup somewhere along the line, not sure who from, sorry! Shawn bob maulucci wrote: I recently bought a Rigid air filtration system (portable) for myshop. It has cut down on the number of dust specs I get in the finish small air filtration unit in their drying cabinet? Is the exhaust endof such a machine just going to circulate the dust even more? Any prosor cons would be greatly appreciated.I use a plastic Rubbermaidcabinet (with only two shelves in the top) as the drying cabinet andit works well. However, there is some dust in there that has beenknown to seek out the varnished sections when they are drying out andstill tacky.By the way, leaving in those two shelves gives my a nicespace to put my silk lines for drying after a days fishing.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------98AD78ABC677309670E436F6 Bob, my cabinet , mind you it is Plexiglas, but I think would still work withyour plastic Rubbermaid cabinet's that I rub the door and walls with asheep wool patch. The static pulls any dust that does happen to be aroundonto the plexi. Just a hint I picked up somewhere along the line, not surewho from, sorry! Shawnbob maulucci wrote:I recently bought a Rigid air filtration system(portable) air filtration unit in their drying cabinet? Is the exhaust end of sucha machine just going to circulate the dust even more? Any pros or conswould be greatly appreciated.I use a plastic Rubbermaid cabinet (with onlytwo shelves in the top) as the drying cabinet and it works well. However,there is some dust in there that has been known to seek out the varnishedsections when they are drying out and still tacky.By the way, leaving inthose two shelves gives my a nice space to put my silk lines for dryingafter a days fishing.Thanks,BobMaulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --------------98AD78ABC677309670E436F6-- from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Jul 1 13:40:59 2000 e61IexG08482 Subject: "Smidgen" Taper Does any one have the taper for this rod. According to Al Medved (maybeyou have the taper Al?), it is a version of the Paul Young Midge. Al, it sure was a pretty rod. Can you provide any information about the rattan handle. How was it "anchored" at each end after wrapping etc.Doug Hall from timklein@uswest.net Sat Jul 1 13:46:00 2000 e61IjxG08679 (63.225.127.154) Subject: Re: Toning cane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01BFE35A.0CE72560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BFE35A.0CE72560 That's a nice looking strip Bob. from your break test, do feel like the strips have approximately the =same strength as a normally treated strip? Are you comfortable enough =with the strip that you plan to make a rod treated this way? If so, I'd be interested in hearing more when you complete the rod. (also, what type of oven did you make?) Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 3:04 PMSubject: Toning cane Someone was asking not too long ago about browntoning cane. Well, I =built a new heat treating oven today and have been playing with it all =afternoon and tried heat toning the bamboo... Just heat, not with =Ammonia or Ammonia Chloride. I did this with extra beveled strips that =I had laying around and scanned in a picture of what I ended up with, = The top strip in the picture was just normally heat treated at 375 = same way, then after cooling, was put back in the oven. I left it in = better and more even than I expected. Next worry was "What did it do to =the cane?" It definitely had to be bent to an extreme to break and when =it did, it broke the way I like heat treated cane to break, in long =splinters. You can see the break and it's characteristics at =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/breaktst.jpg Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BFE35A.0CE72560 That's a nice looking strip Bob. approximately the same strength as a normally treated strip? Are you = enough with the strip that you plan to make a rod treated this =way? If so, I'd be interested in hearing more when you = rod. (also, what type of oven did youmake?) ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 =3:04 PMSubject: Toning cane = built a new heat treating oven today and have been playing with it all = afternoon and tried heat toning the bamboo... Just heat, not with = heat treated the same way, then after cooling, was put back in the = did it do to the cane?" It definitely had to be bent to an extreme to = and when it did, it broke the way I like heat treated cane to break, = .com/caneman/breaktst.jpg Bob Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm= ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BFE35A.0CE72560-- from Bamboomaker@aol.com Sat Jul 1 13:49:31 2000 e61InUG08846 Subject: Re: air filtration Bob, I have a 3' x 3' x 8' drying cabinet. It's actually a converted closet that housed my water meter. I put a HEPA filter that was meant to circulate a14 x 16' room 6x per hour in it and just turn it on about 10 minutes before dipping. I don't get problems of recirculating dust. I keep it on a shelf around 4' high from the ground. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from timklein@uswest.net Sat Jul 1 14:13:50 2000 e61JDnG09391 (63.225.240.253) Subject: Timex thermometer I don't know who mentioned the timex thermometer here a couple of weeksago,but whoever it was, Thanks! I picked one up at Target and I get much more consistent and accuratereadings than I did with my candy thermometers. It has a thin probe attachedto a cord that's probably a foot and a half long. It also has a clock/timerbuilt into it and an alarm set point for temperature. All in all, a handylittle unit. The only downside I've noticed is that it is a little slower to react than Iwould like, but not so slow that it's caused any problems for me. Along the same lines, I thought I'd mention a little gadget I found thatmight be of interest to some of you (especially the humidity conscious). Radio Shack has a couple of different temperature/humidity monitoringdevices. The one I chose was a single unit that monitors temperature andhumidity at the base unit and it has a remote probe that monitorstemperature only (it also saves high and low temps since last reset). Allinformation reads out on a single LCD display. I have the device on my workshop wall (OK, my garage wall), and I've mountedthe remote probe in my drying cabinet. I wish the remote probe read humidityas well, but it's a simple matter to set the base unit in the cabinet for afew minutes if I think I've got a humidity problem there. This unit seemed to meet my needs best, but there were several otherconfigurations that could take temperature and/or humidity readings atsingle or multiple locations. If you have the need, it might be taking alook at. ---Tim "I'm a bamboo rodmaker, and I don't do anything the easy way if I can helpit!" from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Sat Jul 1 14:58:25 2000 e61JwPG10004 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Drift Boats - Way off topic go to clacka.com (clackacraft's website) and hit the link to drift boathistory. there is a nice write up which y'all might find informative. take a look. chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Drift Boats - Way off topic Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and have built several small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and it re-kindled an interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats short and wide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long and skinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on? Also,I can't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them but never seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Are plans or drawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontact me off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from dnorl@uswest.net Sat Jul 1 15:32:19 2000 e61KWIG10574 (63.228.5.58) Subject: Re: air filtration boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE372.B431C240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE372.B431C240 Bob,I have a Honeywell air filter purcased at Home Depot hooked up to my =Cattanach style(right out of the book) dip station. I turn it on about =an hour before dipping and then leave it run until the rod has gotten =all it's coats. it enters the side of the plastic tube in a plastic tee =pipe fitting. Works for me!Dave Norling (Thanks again----and again Wayne)-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Date: Saturday, July 01, 2000 10:56 AMSubject: air filtration I recently bought a Rigid air filtration system (portable) for my =shop. It has cut down on the number of dust specs I get in the finish by =about half (or better).Has anyone had experience with putting a small air filtration unit =in their drying cabinet? Is the exhaust end of such a machine just going =to circulate the dust even more? Any pros or cons would be greatly =appreciated.I use a plastic Rubbermaid cabinet (with only two shelves in the =top) as the drying cabinet and it works well. However, there is some =dust in there that has been known to seek out the varnished sections = put my silk lines for drying after a days fishing. Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE372.B431C240 Bob,I have a= filter purcased at Home Depot hooked up to my Cattanach style(right out = book) dip station. I turn it on about an hour before dipping and then = plastic tube in a plastic tee pipe fitting. Works for me! again Wayne) -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= filtrationI recently bought a Rigid air filtration system (portable) for = It has cut down on the number of dust specs I get in the finish by = half (or better).Has anyone had experience with putting a small air filtration = their drying cabinet? Is the exhaust end of such a machine just = appreciated.I use a plastic Rubbermaid cabinet (with only two shelves in = as the drying cabinet and it works well. However, there is some dust = there that has been known to seek out the varnished sections when = drying out and still tacky. my silk lines for drying after a days fishing.Thanks, = =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Ddownandacross.combob@downandacross.com = ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFE372.B431C240-- from brewer@teleport.com Sat Jul 1 19:50:40 2000 e620odG13011 (216.26.32.104) Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Here's one from driftboat country for the do-it-yourselfer! http://www.gregboats.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Drift Boats - Way off topic go to clacka.com (clackacraft's website) and hit the link to drift boathistory. there is a nice write up which y'all might find informative. take a look. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 6:12 AM Subject: Drift Boats - Way off topic Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and havebuiltseveral small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and itre- kindledan interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats short andwide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long andskinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on?Also,Ican't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them butnever seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Are plansordrawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontactme off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 1 23:07:14 2000 e6247EG15176 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sun, 2 Jul 2000 04:07:11 +0000 Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Tom, I don't think it's off topic at all. Up until now, I had never thoughtof making my own driftboat to float my stretch of the Big D (DelawareRiver). I have made my own rod for it though. I have a Grumman (sp?)canoe that works really well, but I think it would add to the overallaesthetic to have my own hand made driftboat/canoe, etc., to float "myriver" with. That would be... Cool! One of these days... Dennis TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and havebuiltseveral small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and it re- kindledan interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats short andwide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long andskinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on? Also, Ican't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them butnever seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Are plansordrawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontactme off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jul 2 09:31:47 2000 e62EVkG20945 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A3776E540136; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:36:39 -0400 Subject: July Contest As promised (but, true to form, a day late) I've put forward anothercontest question with a silk line as prize.Good luck.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Jul 2 11:12:59 2000 e62GCxG22268 Subject: Pinning Reel Seats To All,I was wondering if any of you will tell me some of your technique's Joe from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Sun Jul 2 11:41:20 2000 e62GfJG22716 Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Doug sayeth.. Does any one have the taper for this rod. According to Al Medved (maybeyou have the taper Al?), it is a version of the Paul Young Midge. Al, it sure was a pretty rod. Can you provide any information about the rattan handle. How was it "anchored" at each end after wrapping etc. Yes Al, please post the taper also!!! Thanks... Mike- from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 2 11:48:19 2000 e62GmIG22970 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Al, I love my Midge...., please post the "Smidgen" taper!! TIAdanny From: Mike Biondo Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:25:51 -0500 Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Doug sayeth.. Does any one have the taper for this rod. According to Al Medved (maybeyouhave the taper Al?), it is a version of the Paul Young Midge. Al, it surewas a pretty rod. Can you provide any information about the rattanhandle.How was it "anchored" at each end after wrapping etc. Yes Al, please post the taper also!!! Thanks... Mike- from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 2 11:53:47 2000 e62GrkG23279 Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:53:15 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Any idea where to find plans for 16`x48" drift boat? TIAdanny From: "Randy Brewer" Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 17:53:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Here's one from driftboat country for the do-it-yourselfer! http://www.gregboats.com ----- Original Message -----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 12:53 PMSubject: RE: Drift Boats - Way off topic go to clacka.com (clackacraft's website) and hit the link to drift boathistory. there is a nice write up which y'all might find informative. take a look. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 6:12 AM Subject: Drift Boats - Way off topic Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and havebuiltseveral small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and itre- kindledan interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats short andwide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long andskinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on?Also,Ican't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them butnever seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Are plansordrawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontactme off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from goodaple@tcac.net Sun Jul 2 12:06:05 2000 e62H64G23629 forged)) Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Organization: I'm currently about 75% complete on a cedar strip canoe to float theArkansas tailwaters and local creeks. The complete building process is alarge extension of rod building. Measurements and the HATED glue lines thatall of us of take extreme measures to avoid have constantly been part oftheprocess.. So far it has turned out beautifully. Your comment hit the markperfectly Dennis. Rodmaking always tends to open up new avenues andopportunities. I have a newly made rod just waiting for the maiden voyage ofthis craft. I look forward to that day.Randall R gregory (NW arkansas) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Tom, I don't think it's off topic at all. Up until now, I had never thoughtof making my own driftboat to float my stretch of the Big D (DelawareRiver). I have made my own rod for it though. I have a Grumman (sp?)canoe that works really well, but I think it would add to the overallaesthetic to have my own hand made driftboat/canoe, etc., to float "myriver" with. That would be... Cool! One of these days... Dennis TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and havebuiltseveral small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and itre- kindledan interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats shortandwide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long andskinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on?Also, Ican't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them butnever seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Areplansordrawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontactme off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Jul 2 14:19:47 2000 e62JJkG25830 Subject: Re: Pinning Reel Seats BillI have had a couple caps break loose using epoxy,and I am sure that I'm mixing it properly.I think the high humidity here in the east swells and shrinks the wood fillers, so I was thinking of pinningjoe from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jul 2 14:28:36 2000 e62JSZG26201 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" ,"wlwalter@bellatlantic.net" (5.0.2195) Subject: Re: Pinning Reel Seats Joe All that pinning does is keep the cap from falling off the seat. Suggest that you might need to better prepare the cap prior to applyingthe epoxy in the same way you need to prepare a ferrule - clean and roughenthe surface prior to gluing. Chris On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:19:38 EDT, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: BillI have had a couple caps break loose using epoxy,and I am sure that I'm mixing it properly.I think the high humidity here in the east swells and shrinks the wood fillers, so I was thinking of pinningjoe from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 2 15:04:33 2000 e62K4XG26906 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:05:53 -0500 , Subject: Re: Pinning Reel Seats The type of epoxy can make a huge difference, as well as having a rough,surface with no oils. There are a number of slow set epoxies, that will holdbroken engine parts under some conditions. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Pinning Reel Seats Joe All that pinning does is keep the cap from falling off the seat. Suggest that you might need to better prepare the cap prior to applyingthe epoxy in the same way you need to prepare a ferrule - clean androughenthe surface prior to gluing. Chris On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:19:38 EDT, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: BillI have had a couple caps break loose using epoxy,and I am surethatI'm mixing it properly.I think the high humidity here in the east swellsandshrinks the wood fillers, so I was thinking of pinningjoe from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 2 17:31:33 2000 e62MVWG28564 Sun, 2 Jul 2000 19:31:28 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Me Too please!I am very curious about this taper! Please enlighten us someone. Also,Danny and I have been very good boys if someone wants to give us the PHYPrincesstaper as an early Christmas gift?? ;^)Shawn Pineo Danny Twang wrote: Al, I love my Midge...., please post the "Smidgen" taper!! TIAdanny From: Mike Biondo Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:25:51 -0500 Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Doug sayeth.. Does any one have the taper for this rod. According to Al Medved(maybe youhave the taper Al?), it is a version of the Paul Young Midge. Al, it surewas a pretty rod. Can you provide any information about the rattanhandle.How was it "anchored" at each end after wrapping etc. Yes Al, please post the taper also!!! Thanks... Mike- from cathcreek@hotmail.com Sun Jul 2 17:41:31 2000 e62MfUG28844 Sun, 02 Jul 2000 15:41:26 PDT Subject: Re: silk lines again Just to beat a dead horse a bit more. I found a tapered silk line at a local flea market yesterday. The reel that it was on was not so hot, but I got the whole thing for $20. Wasn't sure of the weight, but put it on my old Heddon this afternoon and it cast like a dream. The line has a little stickiness to it, so I will use Reed Curry's process to refinish, but I am sold on silk. Happens that the rod I am currently building is a 6wt (same weigh as the Heddon), so I can't wait to try it on that rod. I thought about taking the rod up to the lake on Tuesday, and I have some old Muccelin in a bottle, anyone know if that is the right stuff to use on it? Thanks, Rob ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jul 2 17:51:29 2000 e62MpTG29111 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8946B440152; Sun, 02 Jul 2000 18:56:20 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines again Rob,If it only has a little stickiness, use a milder base than baking soda andyou may have no need to treat the line with tung oil/varnish. You might trywashing the line in warm water with Joy or some such detergent, thenputting itin cold clear water. Dry thoroughly. Never put Mucilin on a wet line.Sounds great, good luck.I had some luck today, too. In attempting the annual cleaning of thebasement, I found a paper bag with an HCF silk that I had put five coats offinish on, then SWMBO told me to find the Christmas tree stand and put mylinesout of the way. By mistake, I put the line in the basement last December. Ithought I had that line but hadn't been able to find it. I'm taking it fishingin a few minutes, its a sweet WF5.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Robert Clarke wrote: Just to beat a dead horse a bit more. I found a tapered silk line at alocal flea market yesterday. The reel that it was on was not so hot, but Igot the whole thing for $20. Wasn't sure of the weight, but put it on myold Heddon this afternoon and it cast like a dream. The line has a littlestickiness to it, so I will use Reed Curry's process to refinish, but I amsold on silk. Happens that the rod I am currently building is a 6wt (sameweigh as the Heddon), so I can't wait to try it on that rod. I thoughtabout taking the rod up to the lake on Tuesday, and I have some oldMuccelinin a bottle, anyone know if that is the right stuff to use on it? Thanks, Rob ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jul 2 17:57:29 2000 e62MvTG29287 (5.0.2195) Subject: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted To All The Paul Young Smidgen Taper has been posted to the Rodmakers TaperArchive under Paul Young complete with guide spacing - thanks to Al Medved. http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/pyoung/smidgen.html BTW, if you like the cane grip in the photo you got to come to the Catskill Gathering 2000 in Roscoe NY in September where he will demonstratethe technique for us. More info at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html I will post an update latter this holiday weekend with the agenda ofevents. Chris from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 2 18:54:02 2000 e62Ns1G00742 Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:53:57 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods ,Al & Carole Medved Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!The pic is a nice touch aswell! Can't wait to try that one. The rattan is awesome, I've been trying tofind info for ages now. I don't know if I will be attending The CatskillGathering this year as I will be going to Ontario for 4 months worth oftraining Shawn Pineo Chris Bogart wrote: To All The Paul Young Smidgen Taper has been posted to the RodmakersTaperArchive under Paul Young complete with guide spacing - thanks to AlMedved. http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/pyoung/smidgen.html BTW, if you like the cane grip in the photo you got to come to theCatskill Gathering 2000 in Roscoe NY in September where he willdemonstratethe technique for us. More info at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html I will post an update latter this holiday weekend with the agenda ofevents. Chris from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Jul 2 19:15:04 2000 e630F3G01208 Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted What was the line rating for that magical little stick? from Bambull@webtv.net Sun Jul 2 20:02:21 2000 e6312KG01875 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id SAA09052; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:02:21 - ETAuAhUAmQo62ErM5FMWoQJQT41QJfroQg4CFQCVmfefa1w/TSpbSFLh8vdXRDwP7w== Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted --WebTV-Mail-32136-1964 I have a Orvis WF4 on the rod and it works great. I believe the originalspecs call for a DT3, but I like the WF4 better. Good luck,Al --WebTV-Mail-32136-1964 bystorefull-283.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 mailsorter-101-12.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP ide630F3G01208 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 (mail_out_v27.10.) id4.72.c04bf6 (7381) for ; Sun, 2 Jul Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted What was the line rating for that magical little stick? --WebTV-Mail-32136-1964-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 2 20:04:20 2000 e6314JG01987 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:03:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted Where was picture ? I missed that. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!The pic is a nicetouch aswell! Can't wait to try that one. The rattan is awesome, I've been tryingtofind info for ages now. I don't know if I will be attending The CatskillGathering this year as I will be going to Ontario for 4 months worth oftraining Shawn Pineo Chris Bogart wrote: To All The Paul Young Smidgen Taper has been posted to the RodmakersTaperArchive under Paul Young complete with guide spacing - thanks to AlMedved. http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/pyoung/smidgen.html BTW, if you like the cane grip in the photo you got to come totheCatskill Gathering 2000 in Roscoe NY in September where he willdemonstratethe technique for us. More info at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html I will post an update latter this holiday weekend with theagenda ofevents. Chris from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 2 21:08:35 2000 e6328NG02973 (204.186.33.20) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Hi Shawn, I have a Paul Young Princess (built 1958) that I will mikeand post the taper. Marty Me Too please!I am very curious about this taper! Please enlighten us someone.Also,Danny and I have been very good boys if someone wants to give us the PHYPrincesstaper as an early Christmas gift?? ;^)Shawn Pineo Danny Twang wrote: Al, I love my Midge...., please post the "Smidgen" taper!! TIAdanny From: Mike Biondo Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:25:51 -0500 Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Doug sayeth.. Does any one have the taper for this rod. According to Al Medved(maybe youhave the taper Al?), it is a version of the Paul Young Midge. Al, itsurewas a pretty rod. Can you provide any information about the rattanhandle.How was it "anchored" at each end after wrapping etc. Yes Al, please post the taper also!!! Thanks... Mike- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Jul 2 23:44:34 2000 e634iXG05184 21:44:30 PDT Subject: test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Jul 3 00:57:46 2000 e635vjG06223 Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted I was looking into the Paul Young folder on Rodmakers on Friday, but couldnotsee the Smidgen,was it updated this weekend? Thanks for the taper. Is the grip made of cane? regardsdanny Chris Bogart wrote: To All The Paul Young Smidgen Taper has been posted to the RodmakersTaperArchive under Paul Young complete with guide spacing - thanks to AlMedved. http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/pyoung/smidgen.html BTW, if you like the cane grip in the photo you got to come to theCatskill Gathering 2000 in Roscoe NY in September where he willdemonstratethe technique for us. More info at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html I will post an update latter this holiday weekend with the agenda ofevents. Chris from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jul 3 08:58:55 2000 e63DwsG11159 Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted creator="4D4F5353" Hi group Nice to see everyone again, and the new faces..glad to see there's stillgood water in Mich. thanks to all regards jerry from if6were9@bellsouth.net Mon Jul 3 09:00:08 2000 e63E07G11299 Subject: Re: Pinning Reel Seats Marine-Tex (available through most boat dealers) is one of those epoxiesthatcan be used to repair broken engine parts. It's a great bonding material, butthe 5 to 1 mix ratio makes it more that a bit of a pain to deal with in smallquantities.I've been using Devcon 2 Ton epoxy (available at the local All Mart) for reelseat assembly, including mounting end caps, for years now and have yet tohave afailure. It mixes 1 to 1, gives an honest 30 minute working time, cleans upwith denatured alcohol, and is fully cured and ready to go in 24 hours. I buyit in the siamese syringe package, so mixing is also a no brainer. nobler wrote: The type of epoxy can make a huge difference, as well as having a rough,surface with no oils. There are a number of slow set epoxies, that will holdbroken engine parts under some conditions. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 3 09:13:40 2000 e63EDdG11903 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:13:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Pinning Reel Seats Devcon also makes Epoxy Steel, and Epoxy Aluminum compounds that areeasyto use, as is J-B Weld. These are good for 300 deg. F., and can be heatcured to speed set up time. A light bulb provides a much quicker set uptime, but I wait 24 hours to stress the joint ! The short cure 5 - min. types are the weak types. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Pinning Reel Seats Marine-Tex (available through most boat dealers) is one of those epoxiesthatcan be used to repair broken engine parts. It's a great bonding material,butthe 5 to 1 mix ratio makes it more that a bit of a pain to deal with insmallquantities.I've been using Devcon 2 Ton epoxy (available at the local All Mart) forreelseat assembly, including mounting end caps, for years now and have yet tohave afailure. It mixes 1 to 1, gives an honest 30 minute working time, cleansupwith denatured alcohol, and is fully cured and ready to go in 24 hours. Ibuyit in the siamese syringe package, so mixing is also a no brainer. nobler wrote: The type of epoxy can make a huge difference, as well as having a rough,surface with no oils. There are a number of slow set epoxies, that willholdbroken engine parts under some conditions. GMA from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Jul 3 09:31:23 2000 e63EVMG12620 KAA02472; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Subject: Re: Paul Young Smidgen Taper Posted Silly question, but when a "guide spacing" is given, to what point is itmeasured- the tip end of the northerly-most foot, the center?thanks, dws. Danny Twang wrote: I was looking into the Paul Young folder on Rodmakers on Friday, but couldnotsee the Smidgen,was it updated this weekend? Thanks for the taper. Is the grip made of cane? regardsdanny Chris Bogart wrote: To All The Paul Young Smidgen Taper has been posted to the RodmakersTaperArchive under Paul Young complete with guide spacing - thanks to AlMedved. http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/pyoung/smidgen.html BTW, if you like the cane grip in the photo you got to come to theCatskill Gathering 2000 in Roscoe NY in September where he willdemonstratethe technique for us. More info at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html I will post an update latter this holiday weekend with the agenda ofevents. Chris from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Jul 3 10:10:35 2000 e63FAYG13557 Rodmakers Subject: RE: "Smidgen" Taper the smidgen is NOT a paul young taper. the taper was derived by paul'sgrandson todd (jack young was paul's son and todd's father, all have beenrodmakers). i have encountered people who really like the rod, and die- hardPHY fans who think it's an abomination. just my two cents. chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Al, I love my Midge...., please post the "Smidgen" taper!! TIAdanny From: Mike Biondo Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:25:51 -0500 Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Doug sayeth.. Does any one have the taper for this rod. According to Al Medved (maybeyouhave the taper Al?), it is a version of the Paul Young Midge. Al, itsurewas a pretty rod. Can you provide any information about the rattanhandle.How was it "anchored" at each end after wrapping etc. Yes Al, please post the taper also!!! Thanks... Mike- from BJCarlson@webtv.net Mon Jul 3 11:18:46 2000 e63GIkG15324 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA16959; Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:18:41 - ETAtAhQfplDw108DCQR+sA1YX+5oJFgzVAIVAJmc1OByUrnlpuNmwAjrz8zuax/x Subject: P H Young Smidgen Very interesting taper. Thanks for sharing it. One question. I noticeon the PHY web site that they list the Smidgen as using an 11/64"ferrule and also list the tip as .055. Can I assume that this taper wasmeasured with the varnish on and we should deduct .003? Please and thanks, Bob from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Jul 3 12:29:23 2000 e63HTMG17010 TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: RE: Drift Boats - Way off topic currently the only boat i own is a twelve by four foot wooden skiff i builtmyself.if anyone has any desire to build their own - go for it!there are several simple methods of construction; i chose "stitch & glue"using marine plywood. before i built i spent a lot of time doing research, and found many helpfulsources on the web (i think i searched under "wooden boats & boatbuilding"). there is also a Wooden Boat magazine that's very informative. As a bonus,in the advertisers section in the back pages, there are many sources forbooks, plans and kits. the magazine can be found at most decent bookstores. chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Tom, I don't think it's off topic at all. Up until now, I had never thoughtof making my own driftboat to float my stretch of the Big D (DelawareRiver). I have made my own rod for it though. I have a Grumman (sp?)canoe that works really well, but I think it would add to the overallaesthetic to have my own hand made driftboat/canoe, etc., to float "myriver" with. That would be... Cool! One of these days... Dennis TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Like some others, I came to rodbuilding through woodworking, and havebuiltseveral small boats. I recently floated the Lehigh in PA, and itre- kindledan interest. The question I have is, why are modern driftboats short andwide when their ancestors, the lumbermen's batteaux, were all long andskinny? Is it only ease of trailering, or is something else going on?Also, Ican't find anything on the AuSable guide boats. I have heard of them butnever seen one. Are they suitable for running moderate rapids? Are plansordrawings available? If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, pleasecontactme off list, as this is really off topic. Thanks - Tom from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jul 3 15:33:11 2000 e63KXAG21272 Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Danny,Look at Don Hill or Greg Boats. from jim@seahorses.com Mon Jul 3 16:19:57 2000 e63LJuG22350 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: subscribe /? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820" Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820 Seahorse Stationerysubscribe /? ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820 Seahorse Stationery /? ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820-- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820 name="Seahorse Wallpaper.jpg" 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFE4F9.E1FC4820-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jul 3 17:53:38 2000 e63MraG24039 "Jorge Carcao" (5.0.2195) Subject: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering 2000 Info To All As promised the draft agenda of events incl the tenative menu hasbeenposted to the web site: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Catskill/Catskill2000.html Also, I've posted the taper we are going to be using for the GatheringRod - followthe link in the agenda page. Just a reminder to make your reservations early - it is booking upquickly and you really do not want to miss this one. Chris from anglport@con2.com Mon Jul 3 18:02:08 2000 e63N26G24268 ESMTP(SMTPD32-6.00) id AA6A1E73008E; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 18:57:46 -0400 Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Drift Boats - Way off topic Well, you guys started it and I think I have an interesting tie-in for you. Take a look at: http://www.friend.ly.net/user-homepages/d/dadadata/n_the_other.html and you'll find we ain't got a corner on the bamboo nuttiness! ;-)Art At 04:32 PM 07/03/2000 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Danny,Look at Don Hill or Greg Boats. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 3 18:42:07 2000 e63Ng6G25031 Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:41:55 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Rodmakers Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Chris,good point! It is easy to forget that just because someone's name is onsomething it doesn't necessarily mean that they personally built or oversawconstruction of what you are buying.I wonder sometimes just how much "hands on" the masters actually hadontheir products at the ends of their lives/careers?? Perhaps some of theworkersin shops were actually building better rods than their masters?? Food forthought!I also noticed that the rod on the PHY page is a 2 pc and the taperlisted is a 1 piece?? What adjustments are needed if any to bring the rodbackto original?? 2 pc configuration.Shawn Pineo "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote: the smidgen is NOT a paul young taper. the taper was derived by paul'sgrandson todd (jack young was paul's son and todd's father, all have beenrodmakers). i have encountered people who really like the rod, and die- hardPHY fans who think it's an abomination. just my two cents. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 9:48 AM Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper Al, I love my Midge...., please post the "Smidgen" taper!! TIAdanny From: Mike Biondo Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:25:51 -0500 Doug sayeth.. Does any one have the taper for this rod. According to Al Medved(maybeyouhave the taper Al?), it is a version of the Paul Young Midge. Al, itsurewas a pretty rod. Can you provide any information about the rattanhandle.How was it "anchored" at each end after wrapping etc. Yes Al, please post the taper also!!! Thanks... Mike- from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jul 4 09:15:31 2000 e64EFUG04385 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) Subject: Test boundary="=====================_188003==_.ALT" --=====================_188003==_.ALT *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>--=====================_188003==_.ALT *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_188003==_.ALT-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Jul 4 10:09:07 2000 e64F96G05404 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Subject: Cork - Europe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFE5D9.D8E651A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFE5D9.D8E651A0 Hi You european Rodmakers pre-made handles. Good quality required. Anyone nows of someone, shop orother? Pls. mail directly to me regards, Carsten JorgensenDania Flyrods ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFE5D9.D8E651A0 Hi You europeanRodmakers Am looking for a source for cork - = required. Anyone nows of someone, shop =orother? Pls. mail directly to me regards, Carsten JorgensenDania Flyrods ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BFE5D9.D8E651A0-- from rp43640@online-club.de Tue Jul 4 15:28:25 2000 e64KSOG09024 Tue, 4 Jul 2000 22:28:19 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Cork - Europe Hej, Carsten, it is very difficult at the moment. One of my friends used toget cork always but even he was not succesfull last time he tried (maybea month ago). Christian Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Hi You european Rodmakers Am looking for a source for cork - ringsorpre- made handles. Good quality required. Anyone nows of someone,shop orother? Pls. mail directly to me regards, Carsten JorgensenDaniaFlyrods cmj@post11.tele.dk from BambooRods@aol.com Tue Jul 4 17:09:11 2000 e64M9AG10116 Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper On one of the posts someone mentioned that you (Al) would be giving a demo/ lecture on how to do the rattan handles. I, as with others I am sure, will not be able to attend that gathering. What are the odds of someone taking the appropriate photos and some general instruction and making themavailable to those of us that are interested. Any thoughts from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 4 18:15:28 2000 e64NFRG10845 16:15:29 PDT Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper here! here! tjt --- BambooRods@aol.com wrote:On one of the posts someone mentioned that you (Al)would be giving a demo / lecture on how to do the rattan handles. I, as withothers I am sure, will not be able to attend that gathering. What are theodds of someone taking the appropriate photos and some general instructionand making them available to those of us that are interested. Any thoughts ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jul 4 18:46:16 2000 e64NkGG11271 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Cork - 250 rings available Importance: Normal Hmmm... you'd think you Euros would have an easier time since the corkcomes from Portugal or the Med... Speaking of cork, I still have 250 rings extra from the group cork orderthat we did a month ago. If anyone is interested, please contact me offlist.No... I did not pick thru them... I think everyone was satisfied with thequality. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cork - Europe Hej, Carsten, it is very difficult at the moment. One of my friends used toget cork always but even he was not succesfull last time he tried (maybea month ago). Christian Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Hi You european Rodmakers Am looking for a source for cork - ringsorpre- made handles. Good quality required. Anyone nows of someone,shop orother? Pls. mail directly to me regards, Carsten JorgensenDaniaFlyrods cmj@post11.tele.dk from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jul 4 19:58:49 2000 e650wnG12121 PDT Subject: Garrison 206 line wt. What line wt. do those of you who have fished this taper recommend? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jul 4 20:59:49 2000 e651xnG12803 Subject: Back from Greyrock All, Last to arrive and last to leave? Sorry to have missed 99.9% of Grayrock. US Airways managed to lose myluggage on the way in and thus caused me to be a day late and I was already cutting it close. Tony Young tried to take me fishing on Sunday night, but I soon realized that I forgot my Mag-lite and ended up breaking off a fly (after dark) and then got lost trying to get back to the river after tying a new fly on with my car's dome light. Seems when packing one doesn't check on items one doesn't use much - damn CA and their no fishing after dark fishing rules. Monday was pure monsoon downfall and the wrong-sided Aussie passengercum driver was trying to brake the car from the passenger seat - so we tried Spike's for lunch/brews. A real bummer! Except the second part of my trip turned out very much A-Ok! My dad's pacemaker was sucessfully replaced and he's doing well. The DR said that the second they pulled the original pacemaker, dad went "flat-line", so I'm hoping for long battery life on the new electronics! I'll try to arrive early next time and will carry an on-board rod/reel the next time. Don Burns from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 4 21:15:41 2000 e652FcG13047 Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:15:30 +0800 Subject: Re: Back from Greyrock Don,dam right about trying to brake the car from the passenger side. Sorryabout the foot depressions in the floor pan :-) Knowing the reason behind your arriving late I can only hope for a bettergo next year but having experience gained on that front I'm prettyconfident you'll do ok this time around. You know it's a strange thing you getting bushed while fishing with me.Something similar happened with one other poor innocent (I'll relate thisoccasion once I get permission to relate it from the other players) at thatvery spot all your problems began only a week earlier. Almost thought I'dslipped into some kind of time warp, serious deja vous.At least I wasn't trying to evade you :-))) All the best to your dad. Tony At 09:58 PM 7/4/00 -0400, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, Last to arrive and last to leave? Sorry to have missed 99.9% of Grayrock. US Airways managed to lose myluggage on the way in and thus caused me to be a day late and I was already cutting it close. Tony Young tried to take me fishing on Sunday night, but I soon realizedthat I forgot my Mag-lite and ended up breaking off a fly (after dark) and then got lost trying to get back to the river after tying a new fly on with my car's dome light. Seems when packing one doesn't check on items one doesn't use much - damn CA and their no fishing after dark fishing rules. Monday was pure monsoon downfall and the wrong-sided Aussie passengercum driver was trying to brake the car from the passenger seat - so we tried Spike's for lunch/brews. A real bummer! Except the second part of my trip turned out very much A-Ok! My dad's pacemaker was sucessfully replaced and he's doing well. The DRsaid that the second they pulled the original pacemaker, dad went "flat-line", so I'm hoping for long battery life on the new electronics! I'll try to arrive early next time and will carry an on-board rod/reel the next time. Don Burns /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from jcollier@siu.edu Tue Jul 4 23:44:04 2000 e654i3G15079 Subject: unsubscribe from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jul 5 03:54:46 2000 e658sjG17193 Wed, 5 Jul 2000 05:54:41 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Back from Greyrock Don,you didn't actually trust them with your rod and reel did you?? What Ido is carry it on with me and when they say "sorry sir that can't comeonboard" Iget this crazed look and say "sure you can have my baby when you pry it outof myhands at my grave site!" A little eye twitch and stutter here and there addstothe effect! ;^) Shawn Pineo Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, Last to arrive and last to leave? Sorry to have missed 99.9% of Grayrock. US Airways managed to lose myluggageon the way in and thus caused me to be a day late and I was already cuttingit close. Tony Young tried to take me fishing on Sunday night, but I soon realizedthatI forgot my Mag-lite and ended up breaking off a fly (after dark) and thengot lost trying to get back to the river after tying a new fly on with mycar's dome light. Seems when packing one doesn't check on items onedoesn't use much - damn CA and their no fishing after dark fishing rules. Monday was pure monsoon downfall and the wrong-sided Aussie passengercumdriver was trying to brake the car from the passenger seat - so we triedSpike's for lunch/brews. A real bummer! Except the second part of my trip turned out very much A-Ok! My dad's pacemaker was sucessfully replaced and he's doing well. The DRsaidthat the second they pulled the original pacemaker, dad went "flat- line", soI'm hoping for long battery life on the new electronics! I'll try to arrive early next time and will carry an on-board rod/reel thenext time. Don Burns from Bambull@webtv.net Wed Jul 5 07:48:39 2000 e65CmdG19453 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA15636; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 05:48:40 - ETAsAhRzsI31H3BPL1OSbWIt+fZjwG4A6gIUFkM9qHLOyoOmFwYZv/0/JhyYix0= Subject: Re: Cane Handle EDT --WebTV-Mail-16690-1315 To those who expressed interest in instruction on cane handles. I'm sure that Chris will be taking many pictures of the proceedings atRosco. Maybe we can put together something for the list that willdemonstrate the wrapping process. It is quite simple. Al --WebTV-Mail-16690-1315 storefull-287.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 mailsorter-101-9.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) bywugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP ide64M9AG10116 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2000 (mail_out_v27.10.) Subject: Re: "Smidgen" Taper On one of the posts someone mentioned that you (Al) would be giving a demo/ lecture on how to do the rattan handles. I, as with others I am sure, will not be able to attend that gathering. What are the odds of someone taking the appropriate photos and some general instruction and making themavailable to those of us that are interested. Any thoughts --WebTV-Mail-16690-1315-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Jul 5 16:25:29 2000 e65LPSG05534 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: GROUP CORK ORDER FORMING Importance: Normal I've had about 20 inquiries so I've decided to form another group purchase.Depending on what people want will ultimately determine what will beavailable to purchase. Here's the choices: Flor+ 1/2" ringsSpecial 1/2" rings 5 Star 1/4" ringsSpecial 1/4" rings Quantities will be in batches of 250 (1/2") and 500 (1/4") and will bemeasured by weight. Please contact me offlist for the full details andpricing. Regards, Darrell from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 5 17:17:13 2000 e65MHDG06693 Subject: Heddon Rod Info List, Does anyone know of a rod built by Heddon called a Petrie Special? Rod is 9' 3 pc with burgundy wraps with green tipping. In all my conversations with Bernard Hills when he was alive this rod was never mentioned and we talked about quite a few different rods as made for different people.Bret from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Jul 5 18:43:56 2000 e65NhtG08522 Subject: Re: Heddon Rod Info Bret:According to Sinclair's "Heddon" book, Petrie Sprecial was made by Heddon ref. book. from 1937 Heddon list.Ed-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu JorgeCarcao@myna.com Subject: Heddon Rod Info List, Does anyone know of a rod built by Heddon called a Petrie Special?Rodis 9' 3 pc with burgundy wraps with green tipping. In all my conversationswith Bernard Hills when he was alive this rod was never mentioned and wetalked about quite a few different rods as made for different people.Bret from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Wed Jul 5 22:49:57 2000 e663nuG11984 Subject: Off Topic: Waders Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice I would appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it would be advantageous to more than myself. I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene waders this week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise me on a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with a nylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap looking repair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANy help ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses in the bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! from martinj@aa.net Wed Jul 5 22:59:44 2000 e663xhG12184 Wed, 5 Jul 2000 20:59:44 -0700 Subject: RE: Off Topic: Waders Importance: Normal Buy some "Aqua Seal". Don't thin it for a rip like this. Make sure the ripis clean and just butt glue the edge and don't be stingy. It (the repair)will be stronger than the neoprene. Make sure not to glue the sidestogether. Maybe stuff paper inside to separate the sides and prop it up sothat the edges Want" to stay together while the glue bonds (overnight usingun-thinned). Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Off Topic: Waders Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice Iwould appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it wouldbe advantageous to more than myself.I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene wadersthis week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise meon a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with anylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap lookingrepair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANyhelp ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses inthe bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jul 5 23:59:06 2000 e664x2G13071 Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:58:55 +0800 Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:58:53 +0800 Subject: RE: Off Topic: Waders Go with Martin's advise and the repair will be better than new.Don't skimp on how much Aquaseal you use because you'll find that even ifyou put the remaining glue in the fridge with the cap on it'll most likeybe set in the tube by the time you go to use it again Tony At 08:59 PM 7/5/00 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote:Buy some "Aqua Seal". Don't thin it for a rip like this. Make sure the ripis clean and just butt glue the edge and don't be stingy. It (the repair)will be stronger than the neoprene. Make sure not to glue the sidestogether. Maybe stuff paper inside to separate the sides and prop it up sothat the edges Want" to stay together while the glue bonds (overnight usingun-thinned). Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 8:42 PM Subject: Off Topic: Waders Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice Iwould appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it wouldbe advantageous to more than myself.I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene wadersthis week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise meon a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with anylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap lookingrepair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANyhelp ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses inthe bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 6 04:21:43 2000 e669LgG15678 Thu, 6 Jul 2000 06:21:40 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Off Topic: Waders Jim,Aqua seal!! Spread it thick over the rip and a good surroundingarea. Let it dry over night and if you want do the inside the same way.This stuff is really tough, to bad waders weren't near as sturdy!!Shawn Pineo Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice Iwould appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it wouldbe advantageous to more than myself.I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene wadersthis week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise meon a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with anylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap lookingrepair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANyhelp ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses inthe bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jul 6 06:12:20 2000 e66BCJG17007 (204.186.33.23) Organization: ProLog Subject: Paul Young Princess Taper Hi All, This rod was built in 1958. According to Martin Kean's book ,records show only 22 of this model were made. Unusual taper in that thefirst 10 inches of the butt section are flat and then becomes verysteep. Rod is marked HDH (6) line but I feel casts best with a DT-5. Rodhas a typical PHY medium to medium fast action . Rod has duel alum.slide bands, Super Z ferrules, stripper is a snake guide. Paul Young Princess 7' 2pc. #5/6 line (measured over varnishdeduct .003)Tip Butt00 .071 .21005 .099 .21010 .115 .21215 .124 .23520 .144 .245 25 .151 .26530 .168 .31935 .191 .333 (reading at 34", start of grip)40 .20642 .207 (at ferrule) Guide Spacing- Tip , 4 1/2", 10", 16 1/2", 24 1/8", 32", 39 7/8"Butt, 7 3/8", 17 1/4"5" grip , 3 1/2" cork seat (duel slide band)Black wraps, no tippingGood Luck, Marty from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 6 08:25:51 2000 e66DPoG19021 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:27:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Off Topic: Waders Try Goop ! It's available at most DIY stores, and will stick most anything,to anything ! I've repair slits in vinyl seats in my fishing van, among manyother things with it. I use the clear type, but it comes in alum. and coppercolors too. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Off Topic: Waders Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice Iwould appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it wouldbe advantageous to more than myself.I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene wadersthis week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise meon a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with anylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap lookingrepair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANyhelp ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses inthe bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! from brookie@frii.com Thu Jul 6 08:36:31 2000 e66DaUG19456 Subject: RE: Off Topic: Waders I'll add a couple of 'secrets' to using Aqua Seal too ... good advicebelow, and I would add : put the AS in a freezer bag and put in thefreezer, not frig. Best to label so 'others' don't throw out. When youwant to use it (which is rare), pop into cup of hot water for a fewminutes, it'll loosen up to use again. Also, to spread the AS out ? WetYOUR fingers with water, helps to spread it around. Be sure as someonesaid to let dry overnight. We use AS around our house alot, plenty offolks that have waders, all the way from prene to breathable and canvas.Good stuff. *S* sue Go with Martin's advise and the repair will be better than new.Don't skimp on how much Aquaseal you use because you'll find that even ifyou put the remaining glue in the fridge with the cap on it'll most likeybe set in the tube by the time you go to use it again Tony At 08:59 PM 7/5/00 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote:Buy some "Aqua Seal". Don't thin it for a rip like this. Make sure the ripis clean and just butt glue the edge and don't be stingy. It (the repair)will be stronger than the neoprene. Make sure not to glue the sidestogether. Maybe stuff paper inside to separate the sides and prop it up sothat the edges Want" to stay together while the glue bonds (overnightusingun-thinned). Martin Jensen from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 6 08:39:36 2000 e66DdaG19610 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:41:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Off Topic: Waders No one has said where to get Aqua Seal. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Off Topic: Waders Buy some "Aqua Seal". Don't thin it for a rip like this. Make sure the ripis clean and just butt glue the edge and don't be stingy. It (the repair)will be stronger than the neoprene. Make sure not to glue the sidestogether. Maybe stuff paper inside to separate the sides and prop it up sothat the edges Want" to stay together while the glue bonds (overnightusingun-thinned). Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 8:42 PM Subject: Off Topic: Waders Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice Iwould appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it wouldbe advantageous to more than myself.I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene wadersthis week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise meon a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with anylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap lookingrepair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANyhelp ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses inthe bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! from dhaftel@att.com Thu Jul 6 08:48:38 2000 e66DmbG19977 JAA04738; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Off Topic: Waders George, Any place that sells waders should have it. I think it's about six or sevenbucks a tube. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Off Topic: Waders No one has said where to get Aqua Seal. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Off Topic: Waders Buy some "Aqua Seal". Don't thin it for a rip like this. Make sure the ripis clean and just butt glue the edge and don't be stingy. It (the repair)will be stronger than the neoprene. Make sure not to glue the sidestogether. Maybe stuff paper inside to separate the sides and prop it up sothat the edges Want" to stay together while the glue bonds (overnightusingun-thinned). Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 8:42 PM Subject: Off Topic: Waders Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice Iwould appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it wouldbe advantageous to more than myself.I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene wadersthis week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise meon a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with anylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap lookingrepair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANyhelp ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses inthe bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! from Mplnk@aol.com Thu Jul 6 09:11:27 2000 e66EBRG20637 Subject: Bellinger binder for sale I have a never-used Bellinger binder for sale. If interested, please contact me off list. Thanks. Mike Dempsey from beckywes@win.bright.net Thu Jul 6 09:36:44 2000 e66EahG21542 Subject: Unsubscribe--Rodmakers from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Jul 6 12:50:33 2000 e66HoWG29032 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: rod weight Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay - when theysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Jul 6 13:44:41 2000 e66IieG00798 11:44:43 PDT Subject: Re: rod weight ralph , i think traditionally when you say a rod is2oz.,let's say, that is the stick and theferrule.....but on ebay bay that could mean anything. there has always been room for missinterpretation onrod wights like this depending on with whom you talk. maybe someone has ia definitive answer but i've alwayshad to ask for clarification. timothy --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Just curious after reading some comments about a rodon Ebay - when theysay that the weight of the rod, "without thehandle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, noferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jul 6 13:51:32 2000 e66IpVG01118 PDT Subject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be several answers depending on whothe rod manufacturer was. For example, my understanding with Granger is that they weighed the rod without the reelseat, I assume that means cork, ferrules, guides, and finish were included in the weight. I always assumed the reelseat weight wasn't included because depending on the reelseat you could have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, which is significant for marketing, particularly in a short rod. The Monel internal uplocking reelseat commonly found on them is much heavier then the earlier NS slide band pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz. reel and line on and the 1/2 oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat to balance point. or methods which generate the lightest possible measurement. Much the sameas people do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original text Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay - when theysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jul 6 15:39:07 2000 e66Kd6G04546 Subject: Reed Curry/Silk lines Reed,typically when you are refinishing a silk line about how many coats on average do you put on of the tung oil. Also where does one get the red Mucilin cans at? Also do you buff in between each coat of oil or do you just wait until you get substantial coats on to where it makes a difference? I am finishing two lines right now and I have others I need to do but I would like to see where I am at in my finishing right now.Bret from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Jul 6 16:19:58 2000 e66LJvG06260 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:19:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Reed Curry/Silk lines Bret,On the assumption your last note was to all and not just Reed ( hi Reed! )I'll let you have my pennies worth ( or two cents as you Yanks wouldsay ? );I coat my lines with Danoil ( a mix of pure tung oil, spar varnish andspecial resins......whatever they are and to quote direct from the tin)as the much vaunted 'Formbys'is not available here in the UK.I have probably refinished in excess of 10 lines now and the number ofcoats I would say averages at around 5 per line.I buff the lines as I go and finish with a final buff in talcom powderto help put a smooth finish on the lines ( I don't think this lastoperation is essential as the lines will wear smooth after a few tripsanyhow ).Red tin Muscilin ( actually now in a plastic container ! ) can bepurchased from almost any fishing tackle shop here in the UK .Hope this little lot is of some use......Paul. Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Reed,typically when you are refinishing a silk line about how many coats onaverage do you put on of the tung oil. Also where does one get the redMucilin cans at? Also do you buff in between each coat of oil or do you justwait until you get substantial coats on to where it makes a difference? Iamfinishing two lines right now and I have others I need to do but I would liketo see where I am at in my finishing right now.Bret from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jul 6 16:30:49 2000 wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP ide66LUmG06874 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ABB9BB030102; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:35:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Reed Curry/Silk lines Bret,What he said...With the additional note that a coarse braided line will never fill smoothly.You'll learn to like the sound as it shoots, tho'. (Handy for night fishing, too.)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "paul.blakley" wrote: Bret,On the assumption your last note was to all and not just Reed ( hi Reed! )I'll let you have my pennies worth ( or two cents as you Yanks wouldsay ? );I coat my lines with Danoil ( a mix of pure tung oil, spar varnish andspecial resins......whatever they are and to quote direct from the tin)as the much vaunted 'Formbys'is not available here in the UK.I have probably refinished in excess of 10 lines now and the number ofcoats I would say averages at around 5 per line.I buff the lines as I go and finish with a final buff in talcom powderto help put a smooth finish on the lines ( I don't think this lastoperation is essential as the lines will wear smooth after a few tripsanyhow ).Red tin Muscilin ( actually now in a plastic container ! ) can bepurchased from almost any fishing tackle shop here in the UK .Hope this little lot is of some use......Paul. Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Reed,typically when you are refinishing a silk line about how many coats onaverage do you put on of the tung oil. Also where does one get the redMucilin cans at? Also do you buff in between each coat of oil or do youjustwait until you get substantial coats on to where it makes a difference? Iamfinishing two lines right now and I have others I need to do but I would liketo see where I am at in my finishing right now.Bret from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 6 17:06:51 2000 e66M6oG07702 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:08:14 -0500 Subject: Re: rod weight I just look at the line wt. rating, and judge by that. I really don't carewhat the total weight is. The action, and how it pushes a line is whatcounts. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be several answers depending on whotherod manufacturer was. For example, my understanding with Granger isthatthey weighed the rod without the reelseat, I assume that means cork,ferrules, guides, and finish were included in the weight. I always assumedthe reelseat weight wasn't included because depending on the reelseat youcould have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, which is significant formarketing, particularly in a short rod. The Monel internal uplockingreelseat commonly found on them is much heavier then the earlier NS slideband pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz. reel and line on and the1/2oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat to balance point. ormethods which generate the lightest possible measurement. Much thesameaspeople do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ralph MacKenzie" , on 7/6/00 10:47 AM: Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay - whentheysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac from dnorl@uswest.net Thu Jul 6 17:17:19 2000 e66MHIG08199 (63.228.7.243) Subject: Re: Reed Curry/Silk lines Reed,Do you ever apply another coat of finish to a line in mid season? the endson mine are starting to look a little thin.Dave N-----Original Message----- ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Reed Curry/Silk lines Bret,What he said...With the additional note that a coarse braided line will never fillsmoothly.You'll learn to like the sound as it shoots, tho'. (Handy for nightfishing, too.)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "paul.blakley" wrote: Bret,On the assumption your last note was to all and not just Reed ( hi Reed! )I'll let you have my pennies worth ( or two cents as you Yanks wouldsay ? );I coat my lines with Danoil ( a mix of pure tung oil, spar varnish andspecial resins......whatever they are and to quote direct from the tin)as the much vaunted 'Formbys'is not available here in the UK.I have probably refinished in excess of 10 lines now and the number ofcoats I would say averages at around 5 per line.I buff the lines as I go and finish with a final buff in talcom powderto help put a smooth finish on the lines ( I don't think this lastoperation is essential as the lines will wear smooth after a few tripsanyhow ).Red tin Muscilin ( actually now in a plastic container ! ) can bepurchased from almost any fishing tackle shop here in the UK .Hope this little lot is of some use......Paul. Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Reed,typically when you are refinishing a silk line about how many coats onaverage do you put on of the tung oil. Also where does one get the redMucilin cans at? Also do you buff in between each coat of oil or doyou justwait until you get substantial coats on to where it makes a difference?I amfinishing two lines right now and I have others I need to do but Iwould liketo see where I am at in my finishing right now.Bret from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jul 6 17:30:56 2000 e66MUtG08579 PDT Subject: Re: rod weight Makes me wonder why so many of the old companies put the rod weights onthe rod or on the tube, if it doesn't matter. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- I just look at the line wt. rating, and judge by that. I really don't carewhat the total weight is. The action, and how it pushes a line is whatcounts. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be several answers depending on whotherod manufacturer was. For example, my understanding with Granger isthatthey weighed the rod without the reelseat, I assume that means cork,ferrules, guides, and finish were included in the weight. I always assumedthe reelseat weight wasn't included because depending on the reelseat youcould have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, which is significant formarketing, particularly in a short rod. The Monel internal uplockingreelseat commonly found on them is much heavier then the earlier NS slideband pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz. reel and line on and the1/2oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat to balance point. ormethods which generate the lightest possible measurement. Much thesameaspeople do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ralph MacKenzie" , on 7/6/00 10:47 AM: Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay - whentheysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 6 17:39:24 2000 e66MdMG08998 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:40:18 -0500 Subject: Re: rod weight It was a standard, I guess, for judging a rod. I just never paid too muchattention to the weight, as how it cast was what counted with me. I stress,this is just my opinion, and I'm certainly no "pro" ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod weight Makes me wonder why so many of the old companies put the rod weights ontherod or on the tube, if it doesn't matter. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "nobler" , on 7/6/00 3:10 PM: I just look at the line wt. rating, and judge by that. I really don't carewhat the total weight is. The action, and how it pushes a line is whatcounts. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 2:02 PMSubject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be several answers depending onwhotherod manufacturer was. For example, my understanding with Granger isthatthey weighed the rod without the reelseat, I assume that means cork,ferrules, guides, and finish were included in the weight. I alwaysassumedthe reelseat weight wasn't included because depending on the reelseatyoucould have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, which is significant formarketing, particularly in a short rod. The Monel internal uplockingreelseat commonly found on them is much heavier then the earlier NSslideband pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz. reel and line on and the1/2oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat to balance point. meansormethods which generate the lightest possible measurement. Much thesameaspeople do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ralph MacKenzie" , on 7/6/00 10:47 AM: Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay - whentheysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Jul 6 17:45:53 2000 e66MjrG09238 15:45:55 PDT Subject: Re: rod weight greetings all! ionce asked walton powell the weightof a rod. what i found out was that he did not thinkit was the question i should be asking. i also gotthe impression that he had been asked that questionbefore. ...when the smoke cleared...he told me thatthe balance of the rod was the issue i should concernmyself with. timothy --- nobler wrote:It was a standard, I guess, for judging a rod. Ijust never paid too muchattention to the weight, as how it cast was whatcounted with me. I stress,this is just my opinion, and I'm certainly no "pro"! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 5:42 PMSubject: Re: rod weight Makes me wonder why so many of the old companiesput the rod weights ontherod or on the tube, if it doesn't matter. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "nobler" , on 7/6/003:10 PM: I just look at the line wt. rating, and judge bythat. I really don't carewhat the total weight is. The action, and how itpushes a line is whatcounts. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 2:02 PMSubject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be severalanswers depending on whotherod manufacturer was. For example, myunderstanding with Granger isthatthey weighed the rod without the reelseat, Iassume that means cork,ferrules, guides, and finish were included inthe weight. I alwaysassumedthe reelseat weight wasn't included becausedepending on the reelseatyoucould have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, whichis significant formarketing, particularly in a short rod. TheMonel internal uplockingreelseat commonly found on them is much heavierthen the earlier NSslideband pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz.reel and line on and the1/2oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat tobalance point. recorded by whatever meansormethods which generate the lightest possiblemeasurement. Much the sameaspeople do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ralph MacKenzie" , on7/6/00 10:47 AM: Just curious after reading some comments about arod on Ebay - when theysay that the weight of the rod, "without thehandle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, noferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jul 6 17:47:39 2000 e66MlcG09352 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: rod weight I think that I remember reading several times that the weight on the shaft was more a marketing ploy than anything else. As was mentioned, some companies measured with hardware mounted and some without. It all seems like commercial interests to me.My .02,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jul 6 17:58:19 2000 e66MwIG09614 Subject: Re: Heddon Rod Info In a message dated 7/5/00 3:17:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Bret, It's a trade rod made by Heddon. Don B. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Jul 6 18:03:18 2000 e66N3GG09814 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 07 Jul 2000 07:01:42 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) flyrod@pop.digisys.net Subject: RE: Off Topic: Waders Jim,as well as being a bamboo junkie I'll have to come clean and own upto being a Latter Day Surfie. In my day, I've made a lot of unplanned andup close inspections of submarine limestone/coral structures. Usually mywetsuit has taken the brunt of the damage and all I've had to do is put thepoor old thing back together. Aqua-Seal to the rescue !! This stuff stickslike sh*t to a blanket (old Aussie saying for veerrry adhesive stuff) andyour waders will outlast your grand children. Buy some, use it, hide it inthe freezer. I won't say any more. You never know who might be reading thisstuff. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Off Topic: Waders Jim,Aqua seal!! Spread it thick over the rip and a good surroundingarea. Let it dry over night and if you want do the inside the same way.This stuff is really tough, to bad waders weren't near as sturdy!!Shawn Pineo Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: Sorry for the off topic post , if anyone can provide some advice Iwould appreciate it. Please reply off list unless you think it wouldbe advantageous to more than myself.I seem to have done some major damage to my neoprene wadersthis week end. About a 3 inch corner tear. Can anyone advise meon a good way to repair this? They are Lacrosse neoprene with anylon shell on each side. I'm a little leary of the cheap lookingrepair kits in the so-called sporting goods stores around here. ANyhelp ? At least the fishing was good! (lost my polarized glasses inthe bushes too. Combat fishing at its best! from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 6 18:14:36 2000 e66NEUG10202 Thu, 6 Jul 2000 20:14:28 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Paul Young Princess Taper Marty,I am assuming this is a vastly different rod than the modern dayPrincess that the PH Young rod co. is producing nowadays?? The modernversion is a 7' for 3 or 4 wt with two different tips , a 13/64 ferrule anda swelled butt. Shawn marty wrote: Hi All, This rod was built in 1958. According to Martin Kean's book ,records show only 22 of this model were made. Unusual taper in that thefirst 10 inches of the butt section are flat and then becomes verysteep. Rod is marked HDH (6) line but I feel casts best with a DT-5. Rodhas a typical PHY medium to medium fast action . Rod has duel alum.slide bands, Super Z ferrules, stripper is a snake guide.Paul Young Princess 7' 2pc. #5/6 line (measured over varnishdeduct .003)Tip Butt00 .071 .21005 .099 .21010 .115 .21215 .124 .23520 .144 .24525 .151 .26530 .168 .31935 .191 .333 (reading at 34", start of grip)40 .20642 .207 (at ferrule) Guide Spacing- Tip , 4 1/2", 10", 16 1/2", 24 1/8", 32", 39 7/8"Butt, 7 3/8", 17 1/4"5" grip , 3 1/2" cork seat (duel slide band)Black wraps, no tippingGood Luck, Marty from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Thu Jul 6 19:16:19 2000 e670GIG11290 Subject: RE: Off Topic: Waders Thanks all for the advice, picked up a tube of the Aqua Seal today, 4.95 Cheap enough compared to new waders, Thanks againHappy gluing Jim , Draggin' a nymph in NW Montana from cathcreek@hotmail.com Thu Jul 6 19:17:21 2000 e670HJG11386 Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:17:17 PDT Subject: Re: rod weight I wonder if anyone on the list has compared the weight of their own rods to the rods that the tapers were pulled from. Would be interesting to me. Rob From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: Re: rod weightDate: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:42:01 PDT Makes me wonder why so many of the old companies put the rod weights ontherod or on the tube, if it doesn't matter. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "nobler" , on 7/6/00 3:10 PM: I just look at the line wt. rating, and judge by that. I really don't carewhat the total weight is. The action, and how it pushes a line is whatcounts. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 2:02 PMSubject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be several answers depending onwhotherod manufacturer was. For example, my understanding with Granger is thatthey weighed the rod without the reelseat, I assume that means cork,ferrules, guides, and finish were included in the weight. I always assumedthe reelseat weight wasn't included because depending on the reelseat youcould have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, which is significant formarketing, particularly in a short rod. The Monel internal uplockingreelseat commonly found on them is much heavier then the earlier NS slideband pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz. reel and line on and the1/2oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat to balance point. means ormethods which generate the lightest possible measurement. Much thesameaspeople do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ralph MacKenzie" , on 7/6/00 10:47 AM: Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay - whentheysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX ounces,would that weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, noreel seat? TIA mac ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from richjez@enteract.com Thu Jul 6 22:23:02 2000 e673N1G14161 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) Subject: Re: Back from Greyrock boundary="=====================_22971343==_.ALT" --=====================_22971343==_.ALT Tony,Since you are so good in the woods, next time we will have to introduce you to an old American tradition: Snipe Hunting. Don't ask, it is best experienced. I am preparing for next year. My house smells like yeast. I have some Cherrys cooking. Rich At 09:27 PM 7/4/00, Tony Young wrote:Don,dam right about trying to brake the car from the passenger side. Sorryabout the foot depressions in the floor pan :-) Knowing the reason behind your arriving late I can only hope for a bettergo next year but having experience gained on that front I'm prettyconfident you'll do ok this time around. You know it's a strange thing you getting bushed while fishing with me.Something similar happened with one other poor innocent (I'll relate thisoccasion once I get permission to relate it from the other players) at thatvery spot all your problems began only a week earlier. Almost thought I'dslipped into some kind of time warp, serious deja vous.At least I wasn't trying to evade you :-))) All the best to your dad. Tony At 09:58 PM 7/4/00 -0400, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, Last to arrive and last to leave? Sorry to have missed 99.9% of Grayrock. US Airways managed to lose myluggageon the way in and thus caused me to be a day late and I was alreadycuttingit close. Tony Young tried to take me fishing on Sunday night, but I soon realizedthatI forgot my Mag-lite and ended up breaking off a fly (after dark) and thengot lost trying to get back to the river after tying a new fly on with mycar's dome light. Seems when packing one doesn't check on items onedoesn't use much - damn CA and their no fishing after dark fishing rules. Monday was pure monsoon downfall and the wrong-sided Aussie passengercumdriver was trying to brake the car from the passenger seat - so we triedSpike's for lunch/brews. A real bummer! Except the second part of my trip turned out very much A-Ok! My dad's pacemaker was sucessfully replaced and he's doing well. The DR saidthat the second they pulled the original pacemaker, dad went "flat-line", soI'm hoping for long battery life on the new electronics! I'll try to arrive early next time and will carry an on-board rod/reel thenext time. Don Burns /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_22971343==_.ALT Tony, Since you are so good in the woods, next time we will have to introduceyou to an old American tradition: Snipe Hunting. Don't ask, it is bestexperienced. I am preparing for next year. My house smells like yeast. I have someCherrys cooking. Rich At 09:27 PM 7/4/00, Tony Young wrote:Don,dam right about trying to brake the car from the passenger side.Sorryabout the foot depressions in the floor pan :-) Knowing the reason behind your arriving late I can only hope for abettergo next year but having experience gained on that front I'm prettyconfident you'll do ok this time around. You know it's a strange thing you getting bushed while fishing withme.Something similar happened with one other poor innocent (I'll relatethisoccasion once I get permission to relate it from the other players) atthatvery spot all your problems began only a week earlier. Almost thoughtI'dslipped into some kind of time warp, serious deja vous.At least I wasn't trying to evade you :-))) All the best to your dad. Tony At 09:58 PM 7/4/00 -0400, Canerods@aol.com wrote: myluggage cutting realizedthat then with my items one rules. passengercum tried DR said "flat-line", so rod/reel the /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_22971343==_.ALT-- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Jul 6 22:54:41 2000 e673sfG14891 Subject: Looking for a refinisher If anyone has time to strip and revarnish a 1pc, 7 footer please contactme off list. Thanks, Bob from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jul 6 23:30:15 2000 e674UEG15421 Subject: Re: Looking for a refinisher In a message dated 7/6/00 8:55:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: Bob, Sounds like a flagpole! Try Caneclinic@aol.com (Michael Sinclair) - he now lives in KY, moved from CO or Russ at Golden Witch in PA (don't remember his email address). Don Burns from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jul 7 05:06:29 2000 e67A6SG19290 (204.186.33.41) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Paul Young Princess Taper Hi Shawn, It must be. I wasn't aware of the modern Co. producing amodel called the "Princess". Marty Marty,I am assuming this is a vastly different rod than the modern dayPrincess that the PH Young rod co. is producing nowadays?? The modernversion is a 7' for 3 or 4 wt with two different tips , a 13/64 ferrule anda swelled butt. Shawn marty wrote: Hi All, This rod was built in 1958. According to Martin Kean's book ,records show only 22 of this model were made. Unusual taper in that thefirst 10 inches of the butt section are flat and then becomes verysteep. Rod is marked HDH (6) line but I feel casts best with a DT-5. Rodhas a typical PHY medium to medium fast action . Rod has duel alum.slide bands, Super Z ferrules, stripper is a snake guide.Paul Young Princess 7' 2pc. #5/6 line (measured over varnishdeduct .003)Tip Butt00 .071 .21005 .099 .21010 .115 .21215 .124 .23520 .144 .24525 .151 .26530 .168 .31935 .191 .333 (reading at 34", start of grip)40 .20642 .207 (at ferrule) Guide Spacing- Tip , 4 1/2", 10", 16 1/2", 24 1/8", 32", 39 7/8"Butt, 7 3/8", 17 1/4"5" grip , 3 1/2" cork seat (duel slide band)Black wraps, no tippingGood Luck, Marty from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jul 7 06:08:40 2000 e67B8bG19923 Subject: rod weight Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFE856.A12744C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFE856.A12744C0 I have no experience of the market in the USA, but with the more common =(here) English rods, the weight was a huge selling point, like =horsepower in cars.In the old Hardy catalogues, of which I am lucky enough to own several, = from the 1920's and 1930's, you can pretty well see the weights march =down year by year. And the superlatives march up!IMHO, the common expression "catalogue of lies" has something to do with =the old Hardy publications; and it appears to me that the weight quoted =was the unadorned weight of the ferruled blank. I think I could find =some evidence for that if pressed, but is bloody cold out there in the =room where the books are, so I am hoping the statement gets by =unchallenged.Again, IMHO, they would have weighed a bamboo seed and cited that if =they thought they could get away with it.The whole point is - who cares? I love James Squire Old Amber Ale, too, =and I don't give a stuff what the % alcohol is.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFE856.A12744C0 I have no experience of the market in = with the more common (here) English rods, the weight was a huge selling = like horsepower in cars.In the old Hardy catalogues, of which I = enough to own several, from the 1920's and 1930's, you can pretty well = weights march down year by year. And the superlatives march =up!IMHO, the common expression"catalogue = something to do with the old Hardy publications; and it appears to me = weight quoted was the unadorned weight of the ferruled blank. I think I = find some evidence for that if pressed, but is bloody cold out there in = unchallenged.Again, IMHO, they would have weighed a= it.The whole point is - who cares? I love = Old Amber Ale, too, and I don't give a stuff what the % alcohol =is.Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFE856.A12744C0-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Jul 7 08:49:28 2000 e67DnSG22613 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A12089AD0136; Fri, 07 Jul 2000 09:54:40 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Reed Curry/Silk lines Dave,If a line needs it. Be certain you have cleaned the line thorughly firstwith turps. Mucilin will provide a barrier to your tung oil/varnish.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ David Norling wrote: Reed,Do you ever apply another coat of finish to a line in mid season? the endson mine are starting to look a little thin.Dave N-----Original Message----- From: reed curry Cc: Grhghlndr@aol.com ; Mplnk@aol.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 06, 2000 4:44 PMSubject: Re: Reed Curry/Silk lines from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Jul 7 08:59:53 2000 e67DxqG23107 Subject: Re: Looking for a refinisher It's actually a very sweet casting 5wt. Thanks for the info. Bob On Fri, 7 Jul 2000 Canerods@aol.com wrote: Bob, Sounds like a flagpole! Try Caneclinic@aol.com (Michael Sinclair) - he now lives in KY, moved fromCO or Russ at Golden Witch in PA (don't remember his email address). Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 7 10:31:36 2000 e67FVZG25556 Subject: Re: rod weight In a message dated 7/7/00 4:09:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, petermckean@netspace.net.au writes: Peter, Here, here - we Americans will drink any swill called beer (Bud comes to mind) and most are 3.2%. I happen to like Sam Smith Old Brewery Pale Ale (Yorkshire) that can be found at my local Trader Joe's. TJ's is kind of hard to explain to those not living in California - it's a half organic health food store and a half discount imported goods store (mixed with a good supply of California fruit and nuts. ) all presented in a holdover 70's hippie format.Aimed at Yuppies with too much money. Just the kind of place that one would expect to find "Bastard" rods being sold at close-out prices. IMHO, Don Burns from wgray@uidaho.edu Fri Jul 7 17:13:05 2000 e67MD4G06603 PAA24779 Jul 2000 22:15:07 UT Subject: Re: rod weight In some of the period books on fishing that have information on rod/reel selection some mention is given to selecting a reel that weighs about 1 1/2 times what the rod does. At least the texts I've seen on this indicate this asa beginning point, with final balance to be achieved by testing reel/line combo's to get the proper "feel". I think this re-enforces some of an earlier discussion on rod/reel balance. Wilson Subject: Re: rod weightDate sent: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:42:45 -0500 It was a standard, I guess, for judging a rod. I just never paid too muchattention to the weight, as how it cast was what counted with me. I stress,this is just my opinion, and I'm certainly no "pro" ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 5:42 PMSubject: Re: rod weight Makes me wonder why so many of the old companies put the rod weightsontherod or on the tube, if it doesn't matter. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "nobler" , on 7/6/00 3:10 PM: I just look at the line wt. rating, and judge by that. I really don't carewhat the total weight is. The action, and how it pushes a line is whatcounts. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 2:02 PMSubject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be several answers depending onwhotherod manufacturer was. For example, my understanding with Granger isthatthey weighed the rod without the reelseat, I assume that means cork,ferrules, guides, and finish were included in the weight. I alwaysassumedthe reelseat weight wasn't included because depending on the reelseatyoucould have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, which is significant formarketing, particularly in a short rod. The Monel internal uplockingreelseat commonly found on them is much heavier then the earlier NSslideband pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz. reel and line on andthe1/2oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat to balance point. meansormethods which generate the lightest possible measurement. Much thesameaspeople do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ralph MacKenzie" , on 7/6/00 10:47 AM: Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay - whentheysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX ounces,wouldthat weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, no reelseat? TIA mac ------------ $$$ ------------------- $$$ --------------- "...there are those who live life, and there are those who sit and watch it on TV..."Jimmy BuffettA Pirate Looks at 50-------------------------------------------- --------------- C. W. Gray 208.736.3622 (PH)Twin Falls R/E Center 736.0843 (Fax)PO Box 1827Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 wgray@uidaho.edu ========================================================== from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 7 17:41:58 2000 e67MfwG07479 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: rod weight Sounds legitimate to me. That thread was very long discussed on the list. People are still looking for the right balance.Bob t 04:20 PM 7/7/00 -0600, wgray@uidaho.edu wrote:In some of the period books on fishing that have information on rod/reelselection some mention is given to selecting a reel that weighs about 1 1/2times what the rod does. At least the texts I've seen on this indicate this as abeginning point, with final balance to be achieved by testing reel/line combo'sto get the proper "feel". I think this re-enforces some of an earlierdiscussion on rod/reel balance. Wilson From: "nobler" Subject: Re: rod weightDate sent: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:42:45 -0500 It was a standard, I guess, for judging a rod. I just never paid too muchattention to the weight, as how it cast was what counted with me. Istress,this is just my opinion, and I'm certainly no "pro" ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 5:42 PMSubject: Re: rod weight Makes me wonder why so many of the old companies put the rodweights ontherod or on the tube, if it doesn't matter. Chris---------- Original Text ---------- From: "nobler" , on 7/6/00 3:10 PM: I just look at the line wt. rating, and judge by that. I really don't carewhat the total weight is. The action, and how it pushes a line is whatcounts. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 2:02 PMSubject: Re: rod weight That's a good question. There must be several answers depending onwhotherod manufacturer was. For example, my understanding with Grangeristhatthey weighed the rod without the reelseat, I assume that meanscork,ferrules, guides, and finish were included in the weight. I alwaysassumedthe reelseat weight wasn't included because depending on thereelseatyoucould have a 1/2 oz. difference in weight, which is significant formarketing, particularly in a short rod. The Monel internal uplockingreelseat commonly found on them is much heavier then the earlierNSslideband pocket models for example. Attach a 4 oz. reel and line on and the1/2oz. difference suddenly takes a backseat to balance point. meansormethods which generate the lightest possible measurement. Muchthe sameaspeople do when stepping on the bathroom scales. Chris------------------Original textFrom: "Ralph MacKenzie" , on 7/6/00 10:47AM: Just curious after reading some comments about a rod on Ebay -when theysay that the weight of the rod, "without the handle", was XX >ounces, wouldthat weight typically be only the cane, no ferrules, no guides, no reelseat? TIA mac ------------ $$$ ------------------- $$$ --------------- "...there are those who live life, and thereare those who sit and watch it on TV..."Jimmy BuffettA Pirate Looks at 50-------------------------------------------- --------------- C. W. Gray 208.736.3622 (PH)Twin Falls R/E Center 736.0843 (Fax)PO Box 1827Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 wgray@uidaho.edu ========================================================== Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 7 17:46:41 2000 e67MkeG07780 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: recipients recipients from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jul 7 18:49:44 2000 e67NniG08685 (5.0.2195) Subject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 7 19:37:40 2000 e680bdG09217 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:39:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering Gee, those are great shots Chris. I wish there were names to go with them,as I'd love to put a face to names ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from lblan@provide.net Fri Jul 7 19:47:40 2000 e680ldG09423 Subject: RE: Grayling Gathering Importance: Normal Great shots Chris! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:49 PM Subject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from rvenneri@ulster.net Fri Jul 7 20:12:38 2000 e681CbG10136 Organization: Venneri's Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering nobler wrote: Gee, those are great shots Chris. I wish there were names to go with them,as I'd love to put a face to names ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 6:49 PMSubject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris Great Pics Chris. I noticed that if you right click on the pic you willon some get the name to go with the pic. That was hao I put a name tothe facec .Great Job Wish I could have been there be there . I will beat Roscoe hope to see you all there. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 7 20:17:51 2000 e681HoG10326 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: RE: Grayling Gathering Someone asked about names with the pics. If you right click on a pic and select properties, you will find that Chris has labeled them, even though there are no tags so to speak.Thanks Chris, hope you had fun. (Boy, rub it in!) : )Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from brookie@frii.com Fri Jul 7 20:17:57 2000 e681HuG10337 Subject: Leads on Websites to Sell Brit Cane Well, I used to have the url for an England website that handled cane rods(sale of)...but have lost it of course. Anyone know of one ? I'm in themarket to sell one of my canes. The 4wt and I just don't get along. The3wt ? She's fine. thanks in advance,sue from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jul 7 20:28:39 2000 e681ScG10644 Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:28:35 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering These great shots got me thinking, the gathering in Fergus, Ontario lastyear wasn't there! I have a few pictures and I think Dave V, Ted K, Tom S,Al M and others here on the list might have some as well!How can we get them all together, posted, and would it be OK to add themto your Gatherings section Chris????Shawn Pineo Chris Bogart wrote: To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 7 20:46:21 2000 e681kKG10967 Subject: Re: Leads on Websites to Sell Brit Cane In a message dated 7/7/00 6:18:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,brookie@frii.com writes: Sue, You could try eBay. Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jul 7 20:56:00 2000 e681txG11194 Subject: Bamboo bicycle List, I was in Saugutuck,Michigan today looking for reels and things at antique stores and in the window of a store there was a bamboo bike. The wholething was made out of bamboo except for the tires and sprockets. This was a full size bike that you can actually ride. HUUUMMM, maybe I will ride that to Greyrock next year.Bret from iank@ts.co.nz Fri Jul 7 21:07:36 2000 e6827XG11421 with SMTP id OAA28872 for ; Sat, 8 Jul2000 14:07:18 +1200 Subject: Gatherings Guys, I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know I will bein Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time. I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are any on .I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September last year . Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney----- Original Message ----- Subject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 7 21:22:59 2000 e682MwG11787 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sat, 8 Jul 2000 02:22:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Gatherings Ian, Check Chris Bogart's site. http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.htmlclick on Catskills 2000. There's a gathering the second week ofSeptember in the Catskills at Roscoe, New York. If you can make it I'msure there's a bunch of us (myself included, of course) that would liketo meet you. Hope to see you there. Dennis Ian Kearney wrote: Guys, I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know I will bein Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time. I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are any on .I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September last year . Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 11:49 AMSubject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jul 7 21:32:56 2000 e682WtG11999 (204.186.33.165) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Paul Young Princess Taper Chris, The flat to flat dimensions were not that close but no furtheroff than any FE Thomas or Hardy rod I have checked. I do like the actionthough. Very good for larger water without the weight of a longer rod.Rods are like women, if we all had the same taste we would all want thesame women (my vote is for Michelle Phiffer) Marty Over the years I have read a lot of hype about the Princess taper. I usedtoown one, and have cast other than my own as well. I was not impressed atall. I believe there is a very good reason why PHY made so few of them.I never bothered to mic mine out. The differential from facet to facet at agiven cross section point was so great I could not figure out what the heckPHY was trying to do.Chris Lucker from channer1@rmi.net Fri Jul 7 22:01:02 2000 e68311G12472 Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering bob maulucci wrote: Someone asked about names with the pics. If you right click on a pic andselect properties, you will find that Chris has labeled them, even thoughthere are no tags so to speak.Thanks Chris, hope you had fun. (Boy, rub it in!) : )Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.comO.K., I got it now, I thought that one was Tony. thanks Bob.John from channer1@rmi.net Fri Jul 7 22:04:14 2000 e6834DG12605 Subject: Re: Gatherings Ian Kearney wrote: Guys, I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know I will bein Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time. I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are any on .I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September last year . Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney Ian;If you are going to be as close as Arizona, you might as well come upand fish the San Juan with me, who knows, if we talk about it on thelist enough, it might turn into a gathering.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 7 22:11:34 2000 e683BXG12784 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:11:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Gatherings The SRG, is Oct. 26, 27 , in Flippin, Ark.. This is much closer to Ariz.,and we'd love to meet you Ian. I'm driving up from South Texas, on the 24th,most likely, so will be passing close to Dallas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma.There's not much air traffic to that area of Arkansas, but perhaps I couldmeet you somewhere along my way, and give you a lift on over ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Gatherings Guys, I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know I willbein Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time. I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are any on\.I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September last year\. Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 11:49 AMSubject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 7 22:12:59 2000 e683CwG12872 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:12:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering Thanks to all for that tip. I now know what Tony Young looks like ! Youngguy ain't he ! The name fits ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering bob maulucci wrote: Someone asked about names with the pics. If you right click on a pic andselect properties, you will find that Chris has labeled them, eventhoughthere are no tags so to speak.Thanks Chris, hope you had fun. (Boy, rub it in!) : )Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.comO.K., I got it now, I thought that one was Tony. thanks Bob.John from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Fri Jul 7 22:24:45 2000 e683OiG13120 Subject: Re: Gatherings Ian, I am planning on attending Southern Rod Gathering in Flippin. I will bedeparting St. Louis, MO, and that is about 5 hours driving time. Let meknow. Kevin Buchanan from piscator@crosswinds.net Fri Jul 7 22:24:58 2000 e683OvG13163 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering Chris- Great pictures. Can't believe it was only a couple of weeks ago.Dave in the boat is a classic Grayling picture. Charlie should make hima "Poster Child." Again, well done. Brian from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jul 7 23:07:27 2000 e6847QG14082 Subject: Re: Gatherings John,I could probably make it, if the Juan still has water in it.Steve Ian Kearney wrote: Guys, I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know Iwill bein Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time. I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are anyon .I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September lastyear . Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney Ian;If you are going to be as close as Arizona, you might as well come upand fish the San Juan with me, who knows, if we talk about it on thelist enough, it might turn into a gathering.John from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jul 8 01:08:37 2000 e6868aG15758 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 01:03:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Paul Young Princess Taper Meg Ryan on this guys slate, Marty... Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Paul Young Princess Taper Chris, The flat to flat dimensions were not that close but no furtheroff than any FE Thomas or Hardy rod I have checked. I do like the actionthough. Very good for larger water without the weight of a longer rod.Rods are like women, if we all had the same taste we would all want thesame women (my vote is for Michelle Phiffer) Marty Over the years I have read a lot of hype about the Princess taper. Iused toown one, and have cast other than my own as well. I was not impressedatall. I believe there is a very good reason why PHY made so few of them.I never bothered to mic mine out. The differential from facet to facetat agiven cross section point was so great I could not figure out what theheckPHY was trying to do.Chris Lucker from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jul 8 01:09:35 2000 e6869YG15885 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 8 Jul 2000 01:04:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Gatherings Not that far from Oklahoma to the San Juan either! (hint, hint) LOL -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Gatherings Ian Kearney wrote: Guys, I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know I willbein Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time. I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are anyon .I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September last year\. Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney Ian;If you are going to be as close as Arizona, you might as well come upand fish the San Juan with me, who knows, if we talk about it on thelist enough, it might turn into a gathering.John from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Jul 8 04:42:17 2000 e689gEG17548 Subject: pictures Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE913.A69FBC80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE913.A69FBC80 ChrisI will probably never get to Grayling; I agree with George. Some of the =faces, obviously, I recognise, but most I don't.I would love to know =what names fit the faces.Great pictures, great times, obviously! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE913.A69FBC80 ChrisI will probably never get to Grayling; = love to know what names fit the faces. obviously!Good luck, Peter ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFE913.A69FBC80-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jul 8 05:19:15 2000 e68AJCG17905 Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:18:56 +0800 Subject: Re: Back from Greyrock Hi Rich,could be I'll regret this but I've found the "ask no questions"type of things are normally the best fun, so you're on! Just remember tobring some of your wine.While on the subject I must tell you that whatever it is you put in thatstuff had an unusual effect on me, maybe it was just the wine, maybe itwas the mixture of the wine and Guinness. that could be had fly fishing for whales using a mast as a rod.Admittedly this would mean boat based fishing with souped up nonreversing hand winches but the fly of choice was a Deer Hair Penguin,it'd float indefinitely and take a lot of punishment. Looking back it wasthis last point that really had me worried. Don't know if Reed was in thesame time, place and dimension I was at the time but there was plenty ofroom there. No bats either :-)Keep up the good work!!!!! Tony At 05:27 PM 7/6/00 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: Tony, Since you are so good in the woods, next time we will have to introduceyou to an old American tradition: Snipe Hunting. Don't ask, it is bestexperienced. I am preparing for next year. My house smells like yeast. I have someCherrys cooking. Rich At 09:27 PM 7/4/00, Tony Young wrote:Don,dam right about trying to brake the car from the passenger side.Sorryabout the foot depressions in the floor pan :-) Knowing the reason behind your arriving late I can only hope for abettergo next year but having experience gained on that front I'm prettyconfident you'll do ok this time around. You know it's a strange thing you getting bushed while fishing withme.Something similar happened with one other poor innocent (I'll relatethisoccasion once I get permission to relate it from the other players) atthatvery spot all your problems began only a week earlier. Almost thoughtI'dslipped into some kind of time warp, serious deja vous.At least I wasn't trying to evade you :-))) All the best to your dad. Tony At 09:58 PM 7/4/00 -0400, Canerods@aol.com wrote: myluggage cutting realizedthat then with my items one rules. passengercum tried DR said "flat-line", so rod/reel the /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ sp; / bsp; /**********************************************************************=***/AV Young Visit my web site at: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jul 8 05:19:22 2000 e68AJJG17924 Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:19:07 +0800 Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering Imagine my work when I'm old and grey :-) Tony At 10:16 PM 7/7/00 -0500, nobler wrote:Thanks to all for that tip. I now know what Tony Young looks like ! Youngguy ain't he ! The name fits ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:02 PMSubject: Re: Grayling Gathering bob maulucci wrote: Someone asked about names with the pics. If you right click on a pic andselect properties, you will find that Chris has labeled them, eventhoughthere are no tags so to speak.Thanks Chris, hope you had fun. (Boy, rub it in!) : )Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.comO.K., I got it now, I thought that one was Tony. thanks Bob.John /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from channer1@rmi.net Sat Jul 8 06:02:41 2000 e68B2eG18482 Subject: Re: Gatherings Bob Nunley wrote: Not that far from Oklahoma to the San Juan either! (hint, hint) LOL Bob;Come on down!John from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jul 8 09:06:21 2000 e68E6KG21302 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195) Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering Obviously we are trying to protect the guilty here - I have a ton more photos and it was very hard not to put them allup. Any yes Tony Young's photo is there and we put him where hebelongs "down under". I was kind to him and did not post a photoof him trying to cast one of those special TBBBQ fly lines I have -he thought that he totally lost it for awhile - and he was using hisown rod with the line - it goes to show line does make a difference. Chris On Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:41:33 -0500, nobler wrote: Gee, those are great shots Chris. I wish there were names to go with them,as I'd love to put a face to names ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 6:49 PMSubject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jul 8 09:17:09 2000 e68EH8G21518 Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:18:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Gatherings Just a quick correction,The SRG is at Fulton's Lodge in Mtn. Home Ar. just across the river fromFlippinAr. As the locals would say," Flippin is on the other side of the river". Thereis a feeder airline that comes into Mtn. Home from St. Louis and somewherewestof Mtn. Home. I live in Flippin, 14 miles from the Baxter County Airport inMtn.Home. I would be glad to assist in getting you around.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com nobler wrote: The SRG, is Oct. 26, 27 , in Flippin, Ark.. This is much closer to Ariz.,and we'd love to meet you Ian. I'm driving up from South Texas, on the24th,most likely, so will be passing close to Dallas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma.There's not much air traffic to that area of Arkansas, but perhaps I couldmeet you somewhere along my way, and give you a lift on over ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Ian Kearney" Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:09 PMSubject: Gatherings Guys, I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know I willbein Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time. I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are any on.I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September last year. Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 11:49 AMSubject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jul 8 09:32:39 2000 e68EWaG21824 Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:32:35 +0800 Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:32:33 +0800 Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" You're 100% correct re. the line. I honestly thought I'd cast too many rodsof different action and lost my timing (such as I have), possibly forever!!!! I don't mind admiting I had a horrible cold shiver run down myspine for a moment there even though I was warned the line was "different".It was good for a laugh though. Beware the pink line. Tony Obviously we are trying to protect the guilty here - I have a ton more photos and it was very hard not to put them allup. Any yes Tony Young's photo is there and we put him where hebelongs "down under". I was kind to him and did not post a photoof him trying to cast one of those special TBBBQ fly lines I have -he thought that he totally lost it for awhile - and he was using hisown rod with the line - it goes to show line does make a difference. Chris On Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:41:33 -0500, nobler wrote: Gee, those are great shots Chris. I wish there were names to go withthem,as I'd love to put a face to names ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 6:49 PMSubject: Grayling Gathering To All I have posted some pictures from the Grayling 2000 Gathering at: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Chris /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Jul 8 10:46:09 2000 e68Fk8G22680 Subject: Re: rod weight Some food for thought worthy of consideeration (sorry for thebandwidth) If you examine the books and catalogues of those early days youwilldiscover that manufacturers and fisherman-writers discussed verylearnedlyand extensively such things as the "fulcrum point," "counterpoise,"balancing the fly rod, and "letting the rod do the work," none of which hasany merit whatsoever.... I should not be discussing this topic at allexcept that I am frequently suprised by the comments of writers andreccomendations of supplers or manufacturers prescribing a particular sizeand weight of reel to balance a particular rod. There can be no suchthingas balance in a fly rod. There can be no fixed "fulcrum point." Every inchthat the cast is lengthened or shortened changes the alleged balance andevery unnesary ounce in an unnecessarily heavy reel dampens anddegradesthe cast.... With the lightest reels casts are sharply and cleanlydelivered flat out with enough velovity to turn over the leaders. Itamounts to this: The caster must move the useless weight below hishand aswell as the useful weight above the hand and the removal of dead weithtbelow the hand helped to overcome inertia more quickly, increasing thetipspeed, thus imparting a greaater velocity to the projectile of the fly line. -Vincent C. Marinaro in "In the Ring of the Rise" At 04:20 PM 7/7/2000 -0600, wgray@uidaho.edu wrote:In some of the period books on fishing that have information on rod/reel selection some mention is given to selecting a reel that weighs about 1 1/2 times what the rod does. At least the texts I've seen on this indicatethis as a beginning point, with final balance to be achieved by testing reel/linecombo's to get the proper "feel". I think this re-enforces some of an earlier discussion on rod/reel balance. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 8 11:02:55 2000 e68G2sG22970 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:04:23 -0500 Subject: Re: rod weight I thought it was pretty well accepted that a "balanced" outfit, was one thathad the line matched to the rod, for the best casting ability. It hadnothing to do with weights of anything, except the line to a given rod'saction. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod weight Some food for thought worthy of consideeration (sorry for thebandwidth) If you examine the books and catalogues of those early days you willdiscover that manufacturers and fisherman-writers discussed verylearnedlyand extensively such things as the "fulcrum point," "counterpoise,"balancing the fly rod, and "letting the rod do the work," none of whichhasany merit whatsoever.... I should not be discussing this topic at allexcept that I am frequently suprised by the comments of writers andreccomendations of supplers or manufacturers prescribing a particularsize> and weight of reel to balance a particular rod. There can be no suchthingas balance in a fly rod. There can be no fixed "fulcrum point." Every inchthat the cast is lengthened or shortened changes the alleged balance andevery unnesary ounce in an unnecessarily heavy reel dampens anddegradesthe cast.... With the lightest reels casts are sharply and cleanlydelivered flat out with enough velovity to turn over the leaders. Itamounts to this: The caster must move the useless weight below his handaswell as the useful weight above the hand and the removal of dead weithtbelow the hand helped to overcome inertia more quickly, increasing the tipspeed, thus imparting a greaater velocity to the projectile of the flyline. -Vincent C. Marinaro in "In the Ring of the Rise" At 04:20 PM 7/7/2000 -0600, wgray@uidaho.edu wrote:In some of the period books on fishing that have information on rod/reelselection some mention is given to selecting a reel that weighs about 11/2times what the rod does. At least the texts I've seen on this indicatethis as abeginning point, with final balance to be achieved by testing reel/linecombo'sto get the proper "feel". I think this re-enforces some of an earlierdiscussion on rod/reel balance. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from Canerods@aol.com Sat Jul 8 12:28:00 2000 e68HRxG23927 Subject: NS wire? All, Anyone out there know what "gauge" is equal to 0.039" NS wire? I've found a source selling NS wire, but all there stuff is listed in gauge measurements. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jul 8 13:29:30 2000 e68ITTG24674 11:29:32 PDT Subject: Re: NS wire? don, try 18 gauge .043inches .813mm19 gauge .036inches .914mm20 gauge .032inches .813mm this is us standard the rest of the world does itotherwise(see the chart) timothy --- Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, Anyone out there know what "gauge" is equal to0.039" NS wire? I've found a source selling NS wire, but all there stuff islisted in gauge measurements. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from EESweet@aol.com Sat Jul 8 13:33:39 2000 e68IXcG24845 Subject: Re: Gatherings Ian,Arizona in September, well it could be worse I guess, it probably won't break 110 in the shade that time of year . Whether you make it to a gathering or not, I hope you're able to take John up on his offer. The San Juan is a trip I keep hoping to make, some of the best tailwater fishing there is here, I'm sure it'd be a blast. Not quite as big as those genetically mutated monsters you regularly catch at home (no envy here) but rockets just thesame. Hope you enjoy the trip. EricIan Kearney wrote: Guys,I will probable be in the USA in mid September on business. I know I will be in Arizona and a couple of near by states but not too sure where else atthis point in time.I thought while I was there I might attend a gathering if there are any on .I notice from Chris's file that Allenberry was in Mid September last year .Is it , or any other gathering occuring in September? Ian Kearney Ian;If you are going to be as close as Arizona, you might as well come upand fish the San Juan with me, who knows, if we talk about it on thelist enough, it might turn into a gathering.John from bh887@lafn.org Sat Jul 8 13:35:47 2000 e68IZjG24994 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: NS wire? According to my Machinery's Handbook, No. 23, .039 is 17 gage in Music orPiano Wire Gage and a bit less than 19 gage in Steel Wire. In Steel WireGage .041 is 19 gage. If that is at all helpful. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: NS wire? All, Anyone out there know what "gauge" is equal to 0.039" NS wire? I've foundasource selling NS wire, but all there stuff is listed in gaugemeasurements. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com from Canerods@aol.com Sat Jul 8 14:11:25 2000 e68JBPG25422 Subject: Re: NS wire? Thanks all. My Engineering handbook only lists steel sheet gauge, no wire gauge chart, and I had guessed that 20 gauge wire would be closest. Looks like 18 gauge would be the best size. My "source" has 20' of 18 gauge NS wire for $2.50 and 20' of 20 gauge for $2.25. I'll post the source after I try them out - for two reasons: a) So I don't get a bunch of unhappy campers sending me hate mail if the seller turns out to be shady. and b) So that they aren't sold out before I can order. More later. Don B. from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Jul 8 17:25:24 2000 e68MPNG27305 Subject: Ron Kusse Rod Came upon a Ron Kusse rod today. 8' (about) 3 wt., blonde. Pristine condition. Any thoughts about fair value? Thanks.Doug Hall from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Jul 8 19:58:21 2000 e690wKG28741 Subject: Re: Ron Kusse Rod About $1200 - 1500 Regards, BobFly Supplieshttp://flysupplies.homepage.com/ On Sat, 8 Jul 2000 BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Came upon a Ron Kusse rod today. 8' (about) 3 wt., blonde. Pristine condition. Any thoughts about fair value? Thanks.Doug Hall from channer1@rmi.net Sat Jul 8 21:04:40 2000 e6924dG29426 Subject: Re: Ron Kusse Rod BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Came upon a Ron Kusse rod today. 8' (about) 3 wt., blonde. Pristinecondition. Any thoughts about fair value? Thanks.Doug HallDoug;Go right to the source: www.ronkusse.comJohn from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sun Jul 9 03:27:29 2000 e698RSG03013 (149.225.85.134) Subject: Re:Bamboo bicycle boundary="------------D2D9EC64D4A166C803F906AC" --------------D2D9EC64D4A166C803F906AC Sounds Great...... I was in Salzburg in Austria recently and saw some PLASTIC Tonkin !! Whole bamboo culms (green) but made out of plastic....perhaps I shouldbuy some and make a plastic rod out of it, it could be the first bamboorod with the properties of a plastic rod !! I could make millions !!Every plastic rod user would want one!! I would befamous.......er.....or has somebody already tried this? Would I perhapshave a problem with heat treating? :-) Stuart --------------D2D9EC64D4A166C803F906AC Sounds Great......I was in Salzburg in Austria recently and saw some PLASTIC Tonkin !!Whole bamboo culms (green) but made out of plastic....perhaps I should bamboo rod with the properties of a plastic rod !! I could make millions!! Every plastic rod user would want one!! I would be famous.......er.....orhas somebody already tried this? Would I perhaps have a problem with heat :-) Stuart --------------D2D9EC64D4A166C803F906AC-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Jul 9 03:43:58 2000 e698huG03268 Subject: plastic cane Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE9D4.BF858380" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE9D4.BF858380 Stuart Heat treating this stuff is actually no problem! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE9D4.BF858380 Stuart Heat treating this stuff is actually no = problem! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BFE9D4.BF858380-- from pac1for@earthlink.net Sun Jul 9 05:17:44 2000 e69AHhG04048 DAA11275; Subject: Re:Bamboo bicycle boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFE96D.573A2A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFE96D.573A2A40 I think they got the idea of a bamboo bicycle from "Gilligan's Island". ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFE96D.573A2A40 I think they got the idea of a = from "Gilligan's Island". ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFE96D.573A2A40-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 9 10:12:06 2000 e69FC5G06753 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: straightening wet strips boundary="=====================_14728068==_.ALT" --=====================_14728068==_.ALT I have been straightening and roughing out wet strips on my Hand Mill since I started with it. Has anyone who uses the Bokstrom wet straightening technique found a recurrence in the bends/crookedness when the strips dry out? Is there a solution to this dilemma? I rough cut them shortly after, and I find it difficult to correct the bends and doglegs that reoccur because by now the strips have been turned into their triangular shape.Any insight would be appreciated. Maybe this is a dilemma for people who straighten the classic dry way too?Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_14728068==_.ALT I have been straightening and roughing out wet strips on myHand Mill since I started with it. Has anyone who uses the Bokstrom wetstraightening technique found a recurrence in the bends/crookedness whenthe strips dry out? Is there a solution to this dilemma? I rough cut themshortly after, and I find it difficult to correct the bends and doglegsthat reoccur because by now the strips have been turned into theirtriangular shape.Any insight would be appreciated. Maybe this is a dilemma for peoplewho straighten the classic dry way too?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_14728068==_.ALT-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Jul 9 10:25:04 2000 e69FP4G06955 Subject: Re: straightening wet strips Bob,I had the same problem until someone on the list told me they bound and heat treated the strips after roughing them out. After cooling, most of thesweeps and kinks are gone. However, if you press your nodes before soaking, they will slightly swell back up.Hope this helps you as much as it did me.Mike from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Jul 9 11:58:43 2000 e69GwgG08302 Subject: Re:Bamboo bicycle Date sent: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 10:31:54 +0200 Subject: Re:Bamboo bicycle Sounds Great...... I was in Salzburg in Austria recently and saw some PLASTIC Tonkin !! Whole bamboo culms (green) but made out of plastic....perhaps I shouldbuy some and make a plastic rod out of it, it could be the first bamboo rod with the properties of a plastic rod !! I could makemillions !! Every plastic rod user would want one!! I would befamous.......er.....or has somebody already tried this? Would Iperhaps have a problem with heat treating? :-) Stuart Maybe instead of heat treating, you would have to use cyrogenics (sp?)(deep freezing) like they do to engine parts for strength! from anglport@con2.com Sun Jul 9 16:09:01 2000 e69L90G11038 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8F21A53008C; Sun, 09 Jul 2000 17:04:50 -0400 Subject: Re:Bamboo bicycle Stuart,Don't bother; Hexagraph beat you to it (and probably holds a patent onthedamn thing!)Art At 10:31 AM 07/09/2000 +0200, stuart moultrie wrote:Sounds Great...... I was in Salzburg in Austria recently and saw somePLASTIC Tonkin !! :-) Stuart from BambooRods@aol.com Sun Jul 9 17:07:49 2000 e69M7mG11627 Subject: Followup Quad Question I was looking thru Ron Kusse's web site and some information prompted Cindy to ask a question. I quad's are better why are there not more of them built and why (for example) does no one make ferrules available. According to the site, Leonard made quads before going to hex. Any related thoughts about the evolution to hex. Doug Hall from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 9 18:44:13 2000 e69NiCG12707 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question I had always thought that the two things that kept people out of quads were:1. the difficulty of hand planing them (two sides that aren't equalateral) and the thin edges that are frail.2. the tradition of the six sider that Hiram built because of the difficulty with #1.My guess only. As far as ferrules go, Tony Young will make you ferrules with no or four serrations. I am Hand Milling my first quads as we speak, and I will let you know how the ferrules go.Bob At 06:07 PM 7/9/00 -0400, you wrote:I was looking thru Ron Kusse's web site and some information promptedCindyto ask a question. I quad's are better why are there not more of them builtand why (for example) does no one make ferrules available. According tothesite, Leonard made quads before going to hex. Any related thoughts about the evolution to hex. Doug Hall Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 9 18:51:45 2000 e69NpjG12896 Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:51:42 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question Doug,I believe the that the hexes popularity lies in its ease ofconstruction compared to the quad. The sharp angles of the edges of a quadareeasily damaged during construction and the forms are more complex. Thesame canbe said of pentas.Also quads tend to be somewhat slower than hexes and I think itsappearance is not as easily accepted as the normal "roundish" hex shape.Some feel that the penta and quad are far superior in strength to thehex and but there are relatively few people building them.I think that the arrival of the Morgan handmill will show more and morequad and penta builders in the future. Actually I can see it already starting.;^) Shawn PineoBambooRods@aol.com wrote: I was looking thru Ron Kusse's web site and some information promptedCindyto ask a question. I quad's are better why are there not more of thembuiltand why (for example) does no one make ferrules available. According tothesite, Leonard made quads before going to hex. Any related thoughts about the evolution to hex. Doug Hall from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Jul 9 18:57:21 2000 e69NvKG13058 Subject: Contact for Tony Young Hi, I've seen references to Tony's ferrules several times now. Doesanyone have an email address for Tony, or some other way to contact himabout the possibility of purchasing some of his ferrules? Bill Walters from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 9 19:12:05 2000 e6A0C4G13325 Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:12:02 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Contact for Tony Young Bill,Tony is a list member here. His e-mail :avyoung@iinet.auHe also has a web page showing his products:http://members.iinet.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlTony's prices are awesome and he is great to deal with. Shawn Pineo Bill Walters wrote: Hi, I've seen references to Tony's ferrules several times now. Doesanyone have an email address for Tony, or some other way to contact himabout the possibility of purchasing some of his ferrules? Bill Walters from mrmac@tcimet.net Sun Jul 9 19:28:18 2000 e6A0SHG13633 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: Contact for Tony Young Minor typo in that URL, need the .net try: http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Shawn Pineo wrote: Bill,Tony is a list member here. His e-mail :avyoung@iinet.auHe also has a web page showing his products:http://members.iinet.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlTony's prices are awesome and he is great to deal with. Shawn Pineo Bill Walters wrote: Hi, I've seen references to Tony's ferrules several times now. Doesanyone have an email address for Tony, or some other way to contacthimabout the possibility of purchasing some of his ferrules? Bill Walters from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Jul 9 19:32:11 2000 e6A0WAG13790 Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question Organization: GOULD Hi to all.I believe the answer to your question as to why more quads aren't built liesin one word - "simplicity". It only takes a single groove in the planingform to make a hex rod. No right hand and left hand groove.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Followup Quad Question I was looking thru Ron Kusse's web site and some information promptedCindyto ask a question. I quad's are better why are there not more of thembuiltand why (for example) does no one make ferrules available. According tothesite, Leonard made quads before going to hex. Any related thoughts about the evolution to hex. Doug Hall from ccurrojr@voyager.net Sun Jul 9 19:55:13 2000 e6A0tCG14323 e6A0sc528207 Subject: More Grayrock Pics creator="4D4F5353" Greetings Listers Apologies for the 2 week delay in getting some Grayrock pictures up onmy site. Too much work, too many fish, and too little time. Well - we had a great time as usual. And those of you who couldn't makeit were sorely missed. At least until the first nite of hex fishing. Here's the address:http://www.curro.net love & kisses to all,Charlie Curro PS - In answer to the millions of e-mails I received from those whobelieved that Bogart was attempting payback (for last year's pictures ofhim on my site) by putting my mug right next to Clara Medved's on hisweb page of Grayrock pictures this year...to all of you I say RUBBISH.There is NO rodmaker's child/pet I would rather be seen next to - andbesides, I think we make a cute couple. from dnorl@uswest.net Sun Jul 9 21:20:39 2000 e6A2KcG15371 (63.228.6.220) Subject: Re: straightening wet strips boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE9EC.BB330560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE9EC.BB330560 After using Bokstrom's method I bind them and temper them in my oven. I =believe this drys them and straightens them in addition to tempering. At =that point I keep them in a plastic tube with a desicant unless I'm =working on them.-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Date: Sunday, July 09, 2000 10:12 AMSubject: straightening wet strips I have been straightening and roughing out wet strips on my Hand =Mill since I started with it. Has anyone who uses the Bokstrom wet =straightening technique found a recurrence in the bends/crookedness when =the strips dry out? Is there a solution to this dilemma? I rough cut =them shortly after, and I find it difficult to correct the bends and =doglegs that reoccur because by now the strips have been turned into =their triangular shape.Any insight would be appreciated. Maybe this is a dilemma for people =who straighten the classic dry way too? Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE9EC.BB330560 Bob Afterusing = method I bind them and temper them in my oven. I believe this drys them = straightens them in addition to tempering. At that point I keep them in = plastic tube with a desicant unless I'm working on them. -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, July 09, 2000 10:12 AMSubject: straightening= stripsI have been straightening and roughing out wet strips on my = since I started with it. Has anyone who uses the Bokstrom wet = technique found a recurrence in the bends/crookedness when the = out? Is there a solution to this dilemma? I rough cut them shortly = and I find it difficult to correct the bends and doglegs that = shape.Any insight would be appreciated. Maybe this is a dilemma for = =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Ddownandacross.combob@downandacross.com = ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFE9EC.BB330560-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jul 9 21:29:05 2000 e6A2T5G15557 Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question/Zimny Shawn,I don't really know what makes you think a quad is slower than a hex rod but I think you may be wrong (no offense) but I cast one of John Zimny's rods at Greyrock and I can tell you I saw more power and more speed than I saw inany hex of the same line wght.bret from Bamboomaker@aol.com Sun Jul 9 23:03:55 2000 e6A43sG17144 Subject: Re: straightening wet strips Bob, I use the wet cane to my advantage and bind the roughed strips when theyare still damp. I then heat treat them until dry (and straight) in my oven. While they are damp, they bind very well. This is why I don't spend a lot of time straightening the strips before rough milling (just the really crooked ones to get them to fit into the 2" ABS tube). Hope that this helps. Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from Bamboomaker@aol.com Sun Jul 9 23:14:35 2000 e6A4EYG17447 Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question/Zimny Quads, Pentas or Hexes . . . The 'actions' are built into the taper. Now if the issue was whether the SAME taper in a quad or hex made a sloweror faster rod, I would think that the quad would be faster because of the extra material making the rod stiffer. I should build one of each and find out unless someone could figure it out mathematically. Interesting topic. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Mon Jul 10 01:50:41 2000 e6A6oeG19724 fwd04.sul.t-online.comwith esmtp id 13BXOf-0ounSKC; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:50:29 +0200 Subject: Re: NS wire? Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, Anyone out there know what "gauge" is equal to 0.039" NS wire? I've foundasource selling NS wire, but all there stuff is listed in gauge measurements. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com Hi Don, could you give the address of your source selling NS wire. I wouldreally appreciate it. Does anybody else know any sources of NS wire inEurope, especially Germany? Ralf from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Jul 10 05:05:42 2000 e6AA5eG21976 Subject: Para 15 There is a few Para 15 listed in the tapers archive, and I've also readabout "the Force" but notbeen able to find the taper. It is listed with line weight from #5 tot#7. I would like it as a #5 or 6.. Any suggestion which taper to built? TIARegardsdanny from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jul 10 05:43:03 2000 e6AAh0G22504 Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:42:54 +0800 Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:42:51 +0800 Subject: Re: Para 15 Danny,I've made a Para 15 from the Rodmakers Archive as well as a couple of Force#5's and I personally like them both. I'm yet to try the #6 ver of theForce though.You can get the Force tapers from WC's book or the Rodmakers ArchivesunderWayne's tapers.Which one to build? How about a Para 15 for a #6 and a Force in #5. Both oreither are good and similar enough in action to make for a pretty difficultdecision if you *had* to only have one. I think the Force actually caused the para action lights to turn on forPeter McKean on the list who until then never tried a para but I thinkhe'll agree it's a nice taper. Tony At 12:07 PM 7/10/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:There is a few Para 15 listed in the tapers archive, and I've also readabout "the Force" but notbeen able to find the taper. It is listed with line weight from #5 tot#7. I would like it as a #5 or 6.. Any suggestion which taper to built? TIARegardsdanny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Mon Jul 10 06:09:19 2000 e6AB9IG22924 fwd00.sul.t-online.comwith esmtp id 13BbQv-0f28USC; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:09:05 +0200 Subject: tubing for ferrules to all, does anybody know a source for tubing to make ferrules from (especiallyin Europe or Germany). I'm also looking for a source to get material tomake winding checks, sliding bands etc. Please help me out. Ralf from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 10 07:29:42 2000 e6ACTfG23733 Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:29:39 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question/Zimny Bret and Mark,I always thought the same way, I thought the quad wouldbe faster with a stiffer action, but anyone I talk to that builds them says theopposite is true.I do think that the quad is a bit lighter though.I haven't built a quad yet and have limited experiencebuilding them so I only have other peoples opinions to go on.ShawnGrhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Shawn,I don't really know what makes you think a quad is slower than a hex rodbutI think you may be wrong (no offense) but I cast one of John Zimny's rodsatGreyrock and I can tell you I saw more power and more speed than I saw inanyhex of the same line wght.bret from HalManas@aol.com Mon Jul 10 08:34:44 2000 e6ADYiG25581 Subject: Titebond II extend I'm trying to find some Titebond II extend. You know, the white stuff that foams and stays open about 15 minutes. No one seems to have it locally and none of my catalogs have it either. Does anyone out there know where I can find some? I need a source for this. Thanks in advance. Hal from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 10 08:49:40 2000 e6ADndG26253 jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca(Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0- 66967U86000L86000S0V35)with ESMTP id ca; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:49:37 - 0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Titebond II extend Hal,I know that Lee Valley has it. I would imagine any high end woodworkingshop would as well. I have been experimenting with the Titebond Polyurethaneglue as well.Franklin International is the manufacturer, their phone # is614-443-0241I think that they have a web site but I can't seem to recall it. Shawn Pineo HalManas@aol.com wrote: I'm trying to find some Titebond II extend. You know, the white stuff thatfoams and stays open about 15 minutes. No one seems to have it locallyandnone of my catalogs have it either. Does anyone out there know where Icanfind some? I need a source for this. Thanks in advance. Hal from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jul 10 09:15:26 2000 e6AEFPG27290 Subject: Re: Titebond II extend boundary="------------2178802D302770DB434DA22C" --------------2178802D302770DB434DA22C Shawn's suggestion as to source is correct. As far as I know it ispackaged only in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge onlyPU adhesives foam, and Titebond does make one which should be availablein any large building products store.Ralph --------------2178802D302770DB434DA22C To My knowledge only PU adhesives foam, and Titebond does make one whichshould be available in any large building products store.Ralph --------------2178802D302770DB434DA22C-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Jul 10 11:01:16 2000 e6AG1FG01259 Subject: RE: Titebond II extend boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFEA88.14F2DA58" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEA88.14F2DA58 Ralph is right. Titebond II Extend is just a slower-setting version ofTitebond II, a water-based glue that acts a lot like yellow carpenter's gluebut is stronger and more water resistant. Titebond does market apolyurethane glue which acts like other PUs -- foams etc. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Titebond II extend Shawn's suggestion as to source is correct. As far as I know it is packagedonly in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge only PU adhesivesfoam, and Titebond does make one which should be available in any largebuilding products store. Ralph ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEA88.14F2DA58 Ralph is right. Titebond II Extend is just a slower-setting version of Titebond II, a water-based glue that acts a lot like yellow carpenter's glue but is stronger and more water resistant. Titebond does market a polyurethane glue whichacts like other PUs -- foams etc. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Titebond II extendShawn's suggestion as to source is As far as I know it is packaged only in gallons, and it does not and Titebond does make one which should be available in any large building products store. Ralph ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEA88.14F2DA58-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Jul 10 11:44:21 2000 e6AGiJG02788 2000 12:44:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Titebond II extend www.woodcraft.com sells it in pints.Darryl from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 10 11:51:35 2000 e6AGpYG03228 jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca(Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0- 66967U86000L86000S0V35)with ESMTP id ca; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:51:27 - 0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Titebond II extend All,I wonder if Titebond plans on coming out with / already makes a a PUExtend??Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: www.woodcraft.com sells it in pints.Darryl packaged only in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge onlyPU adhesives foam, and Titebond does make one which should be availablein any large building products store.RalphShawn's suggestion as to source is correct. As far as I know it is packaged only in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge only PUadhesives foam, and Titebond does make one which should be available in anylarge building products store.Ralph >> from jczimny@dol.net Mon Jul 10 12:07:33 2000 e6AH7XG03977 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question/Zimny Quads built to cross sectional area relationships tend to be stiffer. Quadsbuiltto similar stress curves (Garrison type) tend to be softer. Of course, therearemany other variables in construction that would change a rod's stiffness.John Z Shawn Pineo wrote: Bret and Mark,I always thought the same way, I thought the quad wouldbe faster with a stiffer action, but anyone I talk to that builds them saystheopposite is true.I do think that the quad is a bit lighter though.I haven't built a quad yet and have limited experiencebuilding them so I only have other peoples opinions to go on.ShawnGrhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Shawn,I don't really know what makes you think a quad is slower than a hex rodbutI think you may be wrong (no offense) but I cast one of John Zimny's rodsatGreyrock and I can tell you I saw more power and more speed than I sawin anyhex of the same line wght.bret from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jul 10 12:15:46 2000 e6AHFfG04326 Subject: Re: NS wire? I bought some NS wire from a Wholesale Jewellery Supply firm in Toronto. Came as an assortment of different sizes. The order person was able totell me the decimal sizes of the wire, so I was assured that I was gettingwhat I required. Try looking in the yellow pages under wholesalejewellers. I used the wire to re-pin the ferrules on an old Payne rod. You can buy number drill equivalents to the wire diameter. ----------From: Ralf Ladda Subject: Re: NS wire?Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 2:50 AM Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, Anyone out there know what "gauge" is equal to 0.039" NS wire? I'vefound asource selling NS wire, but all there stuff is listed in gaugemeasurements. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com Hi Don, could you give the address of your source selling NS wire. I wouldreally appreciate it. Does anybody else know any sources of NS wire inEurope, especially Germany? Ralf from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Jul 10 12:49:25 2000 e6AHnOG05502 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:48:43 +0000 Subject: Re: tubing for ferrules Ralf,The only source of Nickel Silver tubing that Iam aware of is viaGoldenwitch .A friend and very well known UK ferrule and reel seat builder ( SherlieMaisie) had all his stock especially made and drawn by a Swisscompany.This does not come cheap even when you are a professional andcan order voluminous quantities of the stuff.I would therefore suggest you try Goldenwitch products.Contact me offthe list if you require any additional information......Paul Ralf Ladda wrote: to all, does anybody know a source for tubing to make ferrules from (especiallyin Europe or Germany). I'm also looking for a source to get material tomake winding checks, sliding bands etc. Please help me out. Ralf from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Jul 10 12:54:15 2000 e6AHsEG05696 2000 13:54:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Titebond II extend Most polyurethane glues take 20 to 30 minutes to tack up anyway, so a PUextend isn't really neccessary.Darryl www.woodcraft.com sells it in pints.Darryl packaged only in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge onlyPU adhesives foam, and Titebond does make one which should be availablein any large building products store.RalphShawn's suggestion as to source is correct. As far as I know it is packaged only in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge only PUadhesives foam, and Titebond does make one which should be available in anylarge building products store.Ralph >> from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Mon Jul 10 13:02:32 2000 e6AI2VG06018 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often these sortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there are caseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and are willingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would be grateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to the rodmaker forrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might at leastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that was simplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 it brokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so I thought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably some flaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul on October8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have left messageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well as sentnumerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired or not. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208 and stillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's end and atthevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was my first oronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about the whole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like to preventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not to mentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Jul 10 13:13:38 2000 e6AIDbG06505 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:13:39 -0600 Subject: Re: straightening wet strips - Bokstrom Style David/Bob and others, As John is off line for a while till he gets relocated, I will attempt tospeak to the "rebounding" of the nodes that some of you haveexperienced. John is very careful to not press nodes but displace them. The use of thelarge hard rubber block on one side of the vice and a aluminum jaw on theother rather than two hard sides allows the cane somewhere to go. Thismeans that the node is really not pressed but is displaced into therubber block. I'm hoping that John will be back on line soon and be able to answer someof your questions. catch ya' Don At 09:29 PM 7/9/00 -0500, David Norling wrote: Bob After using Bokstrom's method I bind them and temper them in my oven. Ibelieve this drys them and straightens them in addition to tempering. Atthat point I keep them in a plastic tube with a desicant unless I'mworking on them. Arial-----OriginalMessage----- Arialbobmaulucci bob@downandacross.com> rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edurodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> Date: Sunday, July 09, 2000 10:12 AM Subject: straightening wet strips I have been straightening and roughing out wetstrips on my Hand Mill since I started with it. Has anyone who uses theBokstrom wet straightening technique found a recurrence in thebends/crookedness when the strips dry out? Is there a solution to thisdilemma? I rough cut them shortly after, and I find it difficult tocorrect the bends and doglegs that reoccur because by now the strips havebeen turned into their triangular shape. Any insight would be appreciated. Maybe this is a dilemma for people whostraighten the classic dry way too? Thanks, 0000,0000,8080Bob Maulucci ================================================== 0000,0000,8080downandacross.com 8080,8080,0000bob@downandacross.com http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jul 10 13:21:52 2000 e6AILpG06956 (204.186.33.216) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected I have heard of Paul French but have never seen his work. After hearingyour story I now have 0 respect for him as a maker or person. Any rodthat breaks midcast has either inferior cane or workmanship or both. Ihope this works out for you. Marty DeSapio Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often these sortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there are caseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and are willingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would be grateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to the rodmaker forrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might at leastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that was simplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 it brokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so I thought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably some flaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul on October8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have leftmessageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well as sentnumerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired or not. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208 andstillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's end and atthevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was my first oronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about the whole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like to preventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not to mentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com from brookside.rod@juno.com Mon Jul 10 14:22:29 2000 e6AJMTG08911 Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question Other replys have addressed the form of the quad strip discussing thesharpness of the angles and likelyhood of damage. This is in my mind justone of the difficulties had in working with quads. Work holding in general isharder with the square section as most machines and tools required arehappier fixturing or holding a round part or a form closer to round. Squaringferrules could be a chore. Especially when you consider that the squaredferrule needs to fit your rod section precisely and without slop. The meansthat you must make ferrules to fit the sections you have built. Manufacturing square grip checks is required. All in all, one can produce aperfectly acceptable fly rod based on the hex section with rather less workand equipment than that required for building quads in production. Mosteverything applied to the hex rod could be round. This suites the matter ofproduction quite well today as it did in the years past. As to rod performance, one would design and built a rod to suit therequirements established. Medium or fast action, progressive or para. Most folks expect a "bamboo rod" to have a hex section which is the traditionand the expectation in the market place. The square rod is looked at withsome suspicion as it is different. I find that those truely interested in quadstend to be looking for something different in a world full of "same- ness". Youeither love them or hate them. Gary Dabrowski http://home.onestop.net/brookside from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jul 10 14:46:10 2000 e6AJk9G09831 MAA21282 ESMTP for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:45:45 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: flyfishing I watched a flyfishing show on the fox network this weekend and thought tomyself, don't those people get awfully tired of all that flailing around. Hell itmade my arm sore just to watch them. I thought about emailing them asuggestion to feature some one demonstrating the merits of a bambooflyrod till I noticed they were sponsored by plastic Inc and it would be the lastthing in the world they would be interested in. Looks to me that sooner orlater one must develop "one" arm that looks like Arnold Swarzeneggers. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jul 10 14:58:59 2000 e6AJwwG10364 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: flyfishing Not too long ago I refinished a Hardy, 10' 0", #9 weight, "Rogue River" That rod would take an arm like Arnolds to wave all day. ----------From: Coffey, Patrick W Subject: flyfishingDate: Monday, July 10, 2000 3:45 PM I watched a flyfishing show on the fox network this weekend and thoughtto myself, don't those people get awfully tired of all that flailingaround. Hell it made my arm sore just to watch them. I thought aboutemailing them a suggestion to feature some one demonstrating the merits ofa bamboo flyrod till I noticed they were sponsored by plastic Inc and itwould be the last thing in the world they would be interested in. Looks tome that sooner or later one must develop "one" arm that looks like ArnoldSwarzeneggers. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 10 17:19:21 2000 e6AMJLG15363 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: flyfishing All, I'll get back to you on this one. I'm putting the final coat of varnishon my Holbrook No. 310, 8 1/2 foot nine weight this evening. I got tocast it before it went in for its first dip and it seemed OK on thearm. It also seemed a bit slow for a nine. I got a lot of tailingloops with it. I'm going to try a Wulff Triangle Taper in an 8 whenit's done. Dennis Ted Knott wrote: Not too long ago I refinished a Hardy, 10' 0", #9 weight, "Rogue River"That rod would take an arm like Arnolds to wave all day. ----------From: Coffey, Patrick W Subject: flyfishingDate: Monday, July 10, 2000 3:45 PM I watched a flyfishing show on the fox network this weekend and thoughtto myself, don't those people get awfully tired of all that flailingaround. Hell it made my arm sore just to watch them. I thought aboutemailing them a suggestion to feature some one demonstrating the meritsofa bamboo flyrod till I noticed they were sponsored by plastic Inc and itwould be the last thing in the world they would be interested in. Looks tome that sooner or later one must develop "one" arm that looks like ArnoldSwarzeneggers. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jul 10 17:46:12 2000 e6AMkBG16007 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A34996013A; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:50:49 -0400 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Marty,Breaking at a female ferrulle after 18 months use may be symptomatic ofvarnishcracking at the ferrules, moisture getting in under the wraps, and eventualweakening of the cane due to fungus (rot, you say?).That said, the fellow is still a bounder for not responding to his customer.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ marty wrote: I have heard of Paul French but have never seen his work. After hearingyour story I now have 0 respect for him as a maker or person. Any rodthat breaks midcast has either inferior cane or workmanship or both. Ihope this works out for you. Marty DeSapio from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jul 10 20:19:31 2000 e6B1JUG18909 (204.186.211.169) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Hi Reed, Anyone spending a grand on a rod is not going to store thething where fungus can invade the cane. My thinking is the ferrulestation was undercut or the ferrule was to small. Best, Marty Marty,Breaking at a female ferrulle after 18 months use may be symptomaticof varnishcracking at the ferrules, moisture getting in under the wraps, and eventualweakening of the cane due to fungus (rot, you say?).That said, the fellow is still a bounder for not responding to hiscustomer.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ marty wrote: I have heard of Paul French but have never seen his work. After hearingyour story I now have 0 respect for him as a maker or person. Any rodthat breaks midcast has either inferior cane or workmanship or both. Ihope this works out for you. Marty DeSapio from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 10 21:11:04 2000 e6B2B3G19706 Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:11:00 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Titebond II extend Darryl,thank you for the advice. I suspected the same. I have a 6'3" 2wt SirD that I will be gluing up soon and I am considering veering to the dark sideand experimenting with this new Titebond PU I have. Any ideas?? It was youthat was experimentingwith this or was that just regular Titebond??Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Most polyurethane glues take 20 to 30 minutes to tack up anyway, so a PUextend isn't really neccessary.Darryl I wonder if Titebond plans on coming out with / already makes a a PUExtend??Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: www.woodcraft.com sells it in pints.Darryl packaged only in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge onlyPU adhesives foam, and Titebond does make one which should be availablein any large building products store.RalphShawn's suggestion as to source is correct. As far as I know it is packaged only in gallons, and it does not foam. To My knowledge only PUadhesives foam, and Titebond does make one which should be available in anylarge building products store.Ralph >> from Kesty25@aol.com Mon Jul 10 21:18:05 2000 e6B2I5G19981 Subject: Granger I have just aquired a 7 1/2 ft Wright McGill "Granger Special" It feels like it should be for #4 or #5 line. The condition other than some minor oxidation on the reel seat is superb. I would really like to somehow establish a ball park idea of its value to determine a course of action regarding what to do with it, ie, make it a wall hanger, refinish, (it doesn't appear to need it at all), or fish it. I can't find any serial or model #s. It does have a patent # and is dated 1938. There are 3 pieces of equal length and an extra tip section. The bag appears to be canvas and the tube is alluminium I think. If anyone can help me with this I would be very appreciative. Thanks, John Kesterson from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Jul 10 21:54:49 2000 e6B2smG20579 Subject: RE: Followup Quad Question/Zimny I've only made 2 quads but so far my take is that given the same taper as ahex (that is, converted to quad using the same factor all the way throughthe taper, usually 0.932) the difference between the tip, mid and buttstiffness is greater in the quad. The tip feels softer, but as you flex intothe mid and butt the power seems to increase more rapidly than in the hexversion. So it's softer in the tip and faster in the mid/butt. I wonder ifthose with more experience have this same impression? Barry -----Original Message-----From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 8:26 AM Cc: BambooRods@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Followup Quad Question/Zimny Bret and Mark,I always thought the same way, Ithought the quad wouldbe faster with a stiffer action, but anyone I talk to thatbuilds them says theopposite is true.I do think that the quad is a bit lighterthough.I haven't built a quad yet and havelimited experiencebuilding them so I only have other peoples opinions to goon. ShawnGrhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Shawn,I don't really know what makes you think a quad is slowerthan a hex rod butI think you may be wrong (no offense) but I cast one ofJohn Zimny's rods atGreyrock and I can tell you I saw more power and morespeed than I saw in anyhex of the same line wght.bret from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 10 21:56:51 2000 e6B2unG20736 Subject: Nodeless Rods Has anyone ever done an empirical study of the strength of nodelessrods? I've read that nodes are weaker than the rest of the cane and thatthe glue joint used to replace the node is a stronger bond. Somehow, Ihave a hard time with the idea that a glue joint would be stronger thanthe material around it and yet maintain the same flex as the materialaround it. Knowledgeable people must be convinced of this though,witness the nodeless rods that have recently sold on ebay for a goodprice. With strong evidence of the strength of a splice used in anodeless rod I too may become a convert. Doesn't seem like more work,really, than producing a noded rod and with the stiffness of nodedsections would seem to make for a smoother action. Just wonder what thelongevity of the splices will be? from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 10 22:08:19 2000 e6B38IG21133 20:08:20 PDT Subject: Re: Nodeless Rods --- Bill Walters wrote:Has anyone ever done an empirical study of thestrength of nodelessrods? brother, it's been done and done and done again andrehashed and argued about and people have lost theirtemper and then it's been done again...... i'm sure it'll be rehashed again soon. check thearchives then you can be up to speed and join in thebattle next time. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Jul 11 00:48:53 2000 e6B5mqG24347 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Organization: GOULD I agree with Marty. Rule no.1 in cane rod building is not to cut down thecane below the thickness across the flats where the ferrule fits and toleave no sharp shoulders.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Hi Reed, Anyone spending a grand on a rod is not going to store thething where fungus can invade the cane. My thinking is the ferrulestation was undercut or the ferrule was to small. Best, Marty Marty,Breaking at a female ferrulle after 18 months use may besymptomaticof varnishcracking at the ferrules, moisture getting in under the wraps, andeventualweakening of the cane due to fungus (rot, you say?).That said, the fellow is still a bounder for not responding to hiscustomer.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ marty wrote: I have heard of Paul French but have never seen his work. Afterhearingyour story I now have 0 respect for him as a maker or person. Any rodthat breaks midcast has either inferior cane or workmanship or both. Ihope this works out for you. Marty DeSapio from ddeloach@pcisys.net Tue Jul 11 00:59:03 2000 e6B5x2G24641 Subject: Re: Granger -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Granger The rod was made after Wright and McGill bought out Granger, around1950.1938 is the patent date on the all-metal uplocking reel seat, a Grangerhallmark. If all sections are straight and full length I would guess thatvalue would be upwards of $500. But in answer to your question, by allmeansfish this rod, its not a priceless Payne or Leonard. Grangers/W&M aresomeof the best production rods ever made--real workhorse rods. I have an 81/2footer that is the first rod I reach for on big rivers nowadays. I daresayyour 7 1/2 footer will be even sweeter to cast and fish. Good luck---- -Original Message-----From: Kesty25@aol.com Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 8:19 PMSubject: Granger I have just aquired a 7 1/2 ft Wright McGill "Granger Special" It feelslikeit should be for #4 or #5 line. The condition other than some minoroxidationon the reel seat is superb. I would really like to somehow establish aballpark idea of its value to determine a course of action regarding what todowith it, ie, make it a wall hanger, refinish, (it doesn't appear to needitat all), or fish it. I can't find any serial or model #s. It does have apatent # and is dated 1938. There are 3 pieces of equal length and anextratip section. The bag appears to be canvas and the tube is alluminium Ithink.If anyone can help me with this I would be very appreciative. Thanks, JohnKesterson from tjpacker@uswest.net Tue Jul 11 01:19:37 2000 e6B6JaG25280 Subject: Rodmakers in the Boise Idaho area Importance: Normal I have been looking into buying/building the necessary hardware to build abamboo rod. Before I make that investment I would like to find someone thatwould be willing to take on an apprentice and show the ropes. If anyoneknows of a rod maker in the Boise Idaho area that might be interested inteaching me a few things, possibly building a rod together, please let meknow. Much Thanks Todd Packer from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jul 11 04:55:56 2000 e6B9ttG27061 (204.186.33.7) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Nodeless Rods I feel the node is the STRONGEST part of the cane. Anytime I purposlybreak a strip it breaks between nodes. Marty Has anyone ever done an empirical study of the strength of nodelessrods? I've read that nodes are weaker than the rest of the cane and thatthe glue joint used to replace the node is a stronger bond. Somehow, Ihave a hard time with the idea that a glue joint would be stronger thanthe material around it and yet maintain the same flex as the materialaround it. Knowledgeable people must be convinced of this though,witness the nodeless rods that have recently sold on ebay for a goodprice. With strong evidence of the strength of a splice used in anodeless rod I too may become a convert. Doesn't seem like more work,really, than producing a noded rod and with the stiffness of nodedsections would seem to make for a smoother action. Just wonder what thelongevity of the splices will be? from utzerath@execpc.com Tue Jul 11 05:36:17 2000 e6BAaHG27503 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Followup Quad Question/Zimny Barry, I certainly don't qualify as one with more experience since I have only madehexes, but I have discussed quads a bit with those who have made similarobservations. First your scale factor (.932) is between the one needed forequal mass and the one for equal curvature (same moments of inertia). Youshould get a slightly more flexible rod. So why is the butt stiffer? My theory is that you are dealing with thedifference in elasticity between the outer fibers and the inner part of thecane which has been noted by several different studies (including, Ibelieve, someone on this list). When you reduce the diameter you areremoving only the inner, lower modulus, part of the strip. The effect ismore pronounced at the larger diameters than at the tip which is comprisedmostly of outer fibers anyway. So the tip follows the theory, but the buttincreases its effective modulus. Just my thoughts, Jim I've only made 2 quads but so far my take is that given the same taper as ahex (that is, converted to quad using the same factor all the way throughthe taper, usually 0.932) the difference between the tip, mid and buttstiffness is greater in the quad. The tip feels softer, but as you flexintothe mid and butt the power seems to increase more rapidly than in the hexversion. So it's softer in the tip and faster in the mid/butt. I wonder ifthose with more experience have this same impression? from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Jul 11 05:50:06 2000 e6BAo4G27771 Subject: braiding machines Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0085_01BFEB78.AF6073C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01BFEB78.AF6073C0 MikeNo, Mike, not me. I did ask about the kind of machines which might be =able to be pressed into service to braid silk, but was really just =flying a kite.However, following the very interesting and comprehensive explanation on =this list, it might be nice to have a look at the details if you can =spare a copy.I have a couple of silk lines in pretty good condition, and I have =fished them, and yes, they are sort of nice to cast; and I know where =there are a couple more brand new ones still in the makers' wrap which I =could have for the asking, and no, I am not going to bother, thanks. =Life's just too short!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01BFEB78.AF6073C0 MikeNo, Mike, not me. I did ask about the = machines which might be able to be pressed into service to braid silk, = really just flying a kite.However, following the very interesting= comprehensive explanation on this list, it might be nice to have a look = details if you can spare a copy.I have a couple of silk lines in = and I know where there are a couple more brand new ones still in the = wrap which I could have for the asking, and no, I am not going to = thanks. Life's just too short!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01BFEB78.AF6073C0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 11 06:25:42 2000 e6BBPfG28241 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:25:39 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Granger John,congratulations! Although the rod isn't priceless I hear they are a verynice casting little rod.A guesstamate would be $300 to $500 US??To fish or not to fish?? HMMMM I have one answer for that and I'm surethere will be dozens who trounce me for this but here goes.... To determinewhatshould be done with the rod simply ask yourself "What did the maker of thispieceof craftsmanship originally intend for it to do??". The answer should becrystalclear now! That is if the rod is fishable and you have the where with all tocare for it properly. Go forth and fish!!!Shawn Pineo Kesty25@aol.com wrote: I have just aquired a 7 1/2 ft Wright McGill "Granger Special" It feels likeit should be for #4 or #5 line. The condition other than some minoroxidationon the reel seat is superb. I would really like to somehow establish a ballpark idea of its value to determine a course of action regarding what to dowith it, ie, make it a wall hanger, refinish, (it doesn't appear to need itat all), or fish it. I can't find any serial or model #s. It does have apatent # and is dated 1938. There are 3 pieces of equal length and anextratip section. The bag appears to be canvas and the tube is alluminium Ithink.If anyone can help me with this I would be very appreciative. Thanks, JohnKesterson from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Jul 11 06:35:12 2000 e6BBZAG28440 Subject: silk lines Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFEB7E.F84A78A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFEB7E.F84A78A0 Shawn, Tony I shall ask about the silk lines, one of which, from memory is a Newton, =and one a Kingfisher. There may be others in used condition. I would think I could just have the lines for the asking, but I don't =know. I will let you know as soon as I know myself. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFEB7E.F84A78A0 Shawn, Tony I shall ask about the silk lines, one = from memory is a Newton, and one a Kingfisher. There may be = used condition. I would think I could just have the = myself. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFEB7E.F84A78A0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 11 06:46:55 2000 e6BBkrG28675 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:46:51 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Content-Type: Whoa, whoa, whoa,before everyone on here tars and feathers Mr.French shouldn't we step back and look this over a little bit??First of all, the following are JUST IDEAS andyes I agree he should have got right on this guys repairs if it wascraftsmanshipat fault.Second, some people need to stop placingthemselves on such a high pedestal. Bamboo can do funny things (sometimesnot sofunny). We ALL have had failures or near failures of some sort at one timeoranother, it comes with the craft! I have seen some of the worlds finest rodsbreak for no apparent reason, last year I saw a fine Winston snap like a twigforno reason (mind you I'm sure they made things right!). So far no one has saidthey even know this man yet so many are willing to step forward and cut hisquality of work to shreds!Third, NOT SAYING IT IS TRUE, but who's to saythat this man didn't abuse the rod?? He might have tripped and fallen on it,hemay have been trying to land a 30" salmon on a Midge, or perhaps he justdidn'tkeep care of it?? It doesn't hurt to hear both sides of a story before jumpingtoconclusions.I guess what I am trying to say is beforepeople do even more damage to this mans reputation than he already hasdonehimself at least get all the facts! Not excusing him for his lack of respondingto this man though! Shawn Pineo Mike Biondo wrote: Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often these sortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there are caseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and are willingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would be grateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to the rodmaker forrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might at leastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that was simplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 it brokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so I thought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably some flaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul on October8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have leftmessageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well as sentnumerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired or not. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208 andstillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's end and atthevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was my first oronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about the whole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like to preventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not to mentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com from miler257@gateway.net Tue Jul 11 07:10:32 2000 e6BCAVG29069 Subject: Epon boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFEB07.46FDCD80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFEB07.46FDCD80 I recently glued up rod #4 , using Shell Epon for the first time. I =loved the long working time, but I experienced a problem after removing =the string (2 days) and sanding the residue. Apparently, while removing =the string some fibers were lifted off of the surface of the bamboo, =leaving shallow depressions. While not affecting performance this harms = I did wipe down the shaft with vinegar immediately after gluing but did =not remove the strings after 8-10 hrs and rebind as some have =suggested.Was that my mistake? Any suggestions? Thanks, Ed Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFEB07.46FDCD80 glued = #4 , using Shell Epon for the first time. I loved the long working time, = experienced a problem after removing the string (2 days) and sanding the = of the surface of the bamboo, leaving shallow depressions. While not = next rod I do. I did wipe down the shaft with = immediately after gluing but did not remove the strings after 8-10 hrs = are = Makes me feel like I was there. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFEB07.46FDCD80-- from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue Jul 11 07:25:40 2000 e6BCPdG29362 Subject: Re: Epon I've had great experience with epon and I usually wipe down with vinegar as you mentioned. I also unwrap about 10 hours later and rebind the blank afterwards. My initial rods were left in the string and I've always had problems getting the string off of the rod while covered with hardened epon (strong stuff). That was until someone on the list mentioned about the vinegar trick (who should get credit? . . . please name yourself!). If you wait for it to harden, just sand/scrape through the thread/hardened epoxy as I used to do. It takes a little more time, but you shouldn't lift any bamboo fibers off this way. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue Jul 11 07:35:44 2000 e6BCZiG29615 Subject: Quad ferrules - How I do it While we are talking about quad ferrules, I just wanted to share my experience with how I manage my ferrules. Being the lazy chap that I am (rodmaking only), and after inquiring with others about getting special ferrules made or using swaging dies or filing off key stock to a taper, I went out and bought a set of CRAFTSMAN screw extractors. Specifically No.2 & No. 3 size. The two should cost you five bucks or so. These two should cover ferrules from 9/64 - 16/64 These are square stock of tool steel that are tapered in a squared fashion. They extract screws through use of a sharp radiused corner. After 1minute of sanding these 'cutting' edges down slightly, I found that I had a very useful way to square the thinned edges of a hex serrated ferrule. You need to thin the tabs such that they can 'fold' over the corners of the modified screw extractor. It works for me. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Jul 11 07:42:55 2000 e6BCgtG29820 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A650D1CF006A; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:42:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon Vinegar works ok for getting the excess resin off the blankduring binding. I have found that denatured alcohol works muchbetter at the rebinding stage. The vinegar seemed to leave somethingto be desired in getting the resin to come off the blank after 8 hours.Also I feel as if the alcohol will evaporate quickly enough as not toeffect the bond strength of the epon.... just my 2 cents worthBrad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon I've had great experience with epon and I usually wipe down with vinegarasyou mentioned. I also unwrap about 10 hours later and rebind the blankafterwards. My initial rods were left in the string and I've always had problemsgettingthe string off of the rod while covered with hardened epon (strong stuff).That was until someone on the list mentioned about the vinegar trick (whoshould get credit? . . . please name yourself!). If you wait for it to harden, just sand/scrape through the thread/hardenedepoxy as I used to do. It takes a little more time, but you shouldn'tliftany bamboo fibers off this way. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jul 11 07:48:21 2000 e6BCmKG00064 Subject: Re: Granger If the rod is is good shape it is likely to fetch $700 to $800 on Ebay. itcould go higher. PaulA place to check granger values is:http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/canecoun/granger.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Granger John,congratulations! Although the rod isn't priceless I hear they area verynice casting little rod.A guesstamate would be $300 to $500 US??To fish or not to fish?? HMMMM I have one answer for that and I'msurethere will be dozens who trounce me for this but here goes.... Todetermine whatshould be done with the rod simply ask yourself "What did the maker ofthis pieceof craftsmanship originally intend for it to do??". The answer should becrystalclear now! That is if the rod is fishable and you have the where with alltocare for it properly. Go forth and fish!!!Shawn Pineo Kesty25@aol.com wrote: I have just aquired a 7 1/2 ft Wright McGill "Granger Special" It feelslikeit should be for #4 or #5 line. The condition other than some minoroxidationon the reel seat is superb. I would really like to somehow establish aballpark idea of its value to determine a course of action regarding what todowith it, ie, make it a wall hanger, refinish, (it doesn't appear to needitat all), or fish it. I can't find any serial or model #s. It does have apatent # and is dated 1938. There are 3 pieces of equal length and anextratip section. The bag appears to be canvas and the tube is alluminium Ithink.If anyone can help me with this I would be very appreciative. Thanks,JohnKesterson from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 11 08:32:32 2000 e6BDWTG01970 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:32:15 +0800 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected What you say is true Shawn. The maker may well be in the wrong and the customer does seem to betakingit all pretty well so I think we should all stay out of it except of courseunless somebody personaly knows the maker and possibly advises him that itmay be best if he at least replys to the customer.Reading the original post, I think Mike and even the customer didn't wantto pillory the maker just get a response. Could be the maker is having realproblems not known to us and needs to deal with things. Tony At 08:42 AM 7/11/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa,before everyone on here tars and feathers Mr.French shouldn't we step back and look this over a little bit??First of all, the following are JUST yes I agree he should have got right on this guys repairs if it wascraftsmanshipat fault.Second, some people need to stop placingthemselves on such a high pedestal. Bamboo can do funny things(sometimesnot sofunny). We ALL have had failures or near failures of some sort at one timeoranother, it comes with the craft! I have seen some of the worlds finestrodsbreak for no apparent reason, last year I saw a fine Winston snap like atwig forno reason (mind you I'm sure they made things right!). So far no one hassaidthey even know this man yet so many are willing to step forward and cut hisquality of work to shreds!Third, NOT SAYING IT IS TRUE, but who'sto saythat this man didn't abuse the rod?? He might have tripped and fallen onit, hemay have been trying to land a 30" salmon on a Midge, or perhaps he justdidn'tkeep care of it?? It doesn't hurt to hear both sides of a story beforejumping toconclusions.I guess what I am trying to say is beforepeople do even more damage to this mans reputation than he already hasdonehimself at least get all the facts! Not excusing him for his lack ofrespondingto this man though! Shawn Pineo Mike Biondo wrote: Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often these sortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there arecaseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and are willingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would begrateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to therodmaker forrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might at leastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that was simplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 it brokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so Ithought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably some flaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul onOctober8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have leftmessageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well as numerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired ornot. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208 andstillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's end andat thevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was myfirst oronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about thewhole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like topreventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not to mentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Jul 11 08:34:30 2000 e6BDYTG02126 Subject: Fwd: Nodeless Rods boundary="part1_69.77de41b.269c7c5e_boundary" --part1_69.77de41b.269c7c5e_boundary --part1_69.77de41b.269c7c5e_boundary Full-name: Eastkoyfly Subject: Re: Nodeless Rods Don't bet on everything you see on E bayJoe --part1_69.77de41b.269c7c5e_boundary-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 11 08:38:59 2000 e6BDcuG02368 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:38:48 +0800 Subject: Re: Epon I've found it a good idea to remove the binding cord when the glue iscured but I guess still a little green.It's a judgement thing because if you remove the cort too early the wholething will fall apart but done correctly everything holds together andyou can even do minor straightening before it's fully cured.Having said that I also watched Jerry glue and bind a blank then heat itin an oven to ensure full curing and achieve a cross linked bond thenremove the cord without any harm.Not much help I know but it *may* be helpful. Tony At 07:11 AM 7/11/00 -0500, miler257 wrote: long working time, but I experienced a problem after removing the string string some fibers were lifted off of the surface of the bamboo, leaving I did wipe down the shaft with vinegar immediately aftergluing but did not remove the strings after 8-10 hrs and rebind as some like I was there. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jul 11 08:39:39 2000 e6BDddG02463 2000 06:39:42 PDT Subject: Re: Granger Keep an eye on Dave Collier's site. He trades in Grangers constantlyand turns his stuff pretty fast. Most of his rods are inwell-above-average condition. http://members.home.net/splitcane/rodpage.html --- Paul Goodwin wrote:If the rod is is good shape it is likely to fetch $700 to $800 onEbay. itcould go higher. PaulA place to check granger values is:http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/canecoun/granger.htm ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 8:21 AMSubject: Re: Granger John,congratulations! Although the rod isn't priceless I hearthey area verynice casting little rod.A guesstamate would be $300 to $500 US??To fish or not to fish?? HMMMM I have one answer for thatand I'msurethere will be dozens who trounce me for this but here goes.... Todetermine whatshould be done with the rod simply ask yourself "What did themaker ofthis pieceof craftsmanship originally intend for it to do??". The answershould becrystalclear now! That is if the rod is fishable and you have the wherewith alltocare for it properly. Go forth and fish!!!Shawn Pineo Kesty25@aol.com wrote: I have just aquired a 7 1/2 ft Wright McGill "Granger Special"It feelslikeit should be for #4 or #5 line. The condition other than someminoroxidationon the reel seat is superb. I would really like to somehowestablish aballpark idea of its value to determine a course of actionregarding what todowith it, ie, make it a wall hanger, refinish, (it doesn'tappear to needitat all), or fish it. I can't find any serial or model #s. Itdoes have apatent # and is dated 1938. There are 3 pieces of equal lengthand anextratip section. The bag appears to be canvas and the tube isalluminium Ithink.If anyone can help me with this I would be very appreciative.Thanks,JohnKesterson __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jul 11 08:52:28 2000 e6BDqRG03162 2000 06:52:30 PDT Subject: Re: Granger John, Also, the patent date of 1938 is for the nickel silver uplockingrealseat on your rod. The patent was for the internal threadmechanism which is pretty cool. I think that Wright & MCGill boughtGoodwin Granger around 1944, so the rod was built after that. --- Kesty25@aol.com wrote:I have just aquired a 7 1/2 ft Wright McGill "Granger Special" Itfeels like it should be for #4 or #5 line. The condition other than some minoroxidation on the reel seat is superb. I would really like to somehowestablish a ball park idea of its value to determine a course of action regardingwhat to do with it, ie, make it a wall hanger, refinish, (it doesn't appear toneed it at all), or fish it. I can't find any serial or model #s. It doeshave a patent # and is dated 1938. There are 3 pieces of equal length andan extra tip section. The bag appears to be canvas and the tube isalluminium I think. If anyone can help me with this I would be very appreciative.Thanks, John Kesterson __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 11 08:53:17 2000 e6BDr6G03270 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:51:39 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected There has been many more than one individual, and company, get into realtrouble, simply from failure to communicate ! I'll health, domesticproblems, whatever, 99% can be resolved by just telling the truth, andrelating it ! Silence fosters belligerence ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected What you say is true Shawn. The maker may well be in the wrong and the customer does seem to betakingit all pretty well so I think we should all stay out of it except ofcourseunless somebody personaly knows the maker and possibly advises him thatitmay be best if he at least replys to the customer.Reading the original post, I think Mike and even the customer didn't wantto pillory the maker just get a response. Could be the maker is havingrealproblems not known to us and needs to deal with things. Tony At 08:42 AM 7/11/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa,before everyone on here tars and feathersMr.French shouldn't we step back and look this over a little bit??First of all, the following are JUST yes I agree he should have got right on this guys repairs if it wascraftsmanshipat fault.Second, some people need to stop placingthemselves on such a high pedestal. Bamboo can do funny things(sometimesnot sofunny). We ALL have had failures or near failures of some sort at onetime oranother, it comes with the craft! I have seen some of the worlds finestrodsbreak for no apparent reason, last year I saw a fine Winston snap like atwig forno reason (mind you I'm sure they made things right!). So far no one hassaidthey even know this man yet so many are willing to step forward and cuthisquality of work to shreds!Third, NOT SAYING IT IS TRUE, but who'sto saythat this man didn't abuse the rod?? He might have tripped and fallen onit, hemay have been trying to land a 30" salmon on a Midge, or perhaps he justdidn'tkeep care of it?? It doesn't hurt to hear both sides of a story beforejumping toconclusions.I guess what I am trying to say isbeforepeople do even more damage to this mans reputation than he already hasdonehimself at least get all the facts! Not excusing him for his lack ofrespondingto this man though! Shawn Pineo Mike Biondo wrote: Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often thesesortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there arecaseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and arewillingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would begrateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to therodmaker forrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might atleastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that wassimplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 itbrokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so Ithought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably someflaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul onOctober8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have leftmessageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well assentnumerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired ornot. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208andstillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's endand atthevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was myfirst oronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about thewhole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like topreventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not tomentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Jul 11 09:14:06 2000 e6BEE5G04103 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Amen Tony! from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Jul 11 09:16:08 2000 e6BEG7G04274 Subject: Fwd: Nodeless Rods boundary="part1_a4.6e693a8.269c8621_boundary" --part1_a4.6e693a8.269c8621_boundary --part1_a4.6e693a8.269c8621_boundary Full-name: Eastkoyfly Subject: Re: Nodeless Rods What I mean is.That some new makers may try to sell on Ebay and then they find out nobody bids on the rods so to save face they have one of there freinds bid on the rodJoe --part1_a4.6e693a8.269c8621_boundary-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 11 09:25:18 2000 e6BEPHG04771 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:25:14 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected John,the original message was not what I had a problem with. The problem Ihave is with some holier than thou people who are prepared to dragsomeone's namethrough the mud before they know the facts! These same people make outthat thisguys craftsmanship is in question, not his business ethics!!I feel for the guy who is out $1000 and a rod, and someone who ripsoffthe customer gives us all (builders in general) an air of suspicion but perhapsthis guy has a valid reason (although I doubt it) I would be interested to hearhis side of the story.ShawnPineo Kesty25@aol.com wrote: Shawm, get a clue! All this guy said was that he sent his rod to Mr. Frenchto be repaired and he hasn't heard from the guy for over 18 months. Is myreading comprehension bad or did you not read the email. I would be livid ifI sent something I paid a thousand dollars for to some one perporting to beacraftsman capable of making a repair and then didn't hear from thispersonever again. I think the guy should not only be tared and feathered, butprosecuted legally. I just don't understand your message, I GUESS.Respectfully, John Kesterson from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 11 09:25:22 2000 e6BEPJG04779 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:25:14 +0800 Subject: Re: Fwd: Nodeless Rods Maybe I should try that in the currency markets. Anybody want to bid onsome $Aust? Tony At 10:16 AM 7/11/00 -0400, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: Return-path: From: Eastkoyfly@aol.comFull-name: EastkoyflyMessage-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:11:54 EDTSubject: Re: Nodeless Rods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 What I mean is.That some new makers may try to sell on Ebay and thenthey find out nobody bids on the rods so to save face they have one of there freinds bid on the rodJoe /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jul 11 09:40:01 2000 e6BEe0G05566 (204.186.33.109) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Hi Shawn, It's very easy to answer a phone call or return a phone callUNLESS you wish to screw somebody. That is what this sounds like. Marty DeSapio Whoa, whoa, whoa,before everyone on here tars and feathers Mr.French shouldn't we step back and look this over a little bit??First of all, the following are JUST IDEAS andyes I agree he should have got right on this guys repairs if it wascraftsmanshipat fault.Second, some people need to stop placingthemselves on such a high pedestal. Bamboo can do funny things(sometimes not sofunny). We ALL have had failures or near failures of some sort at one timeoranother, it comes with the craft! I have seen some of the worlds finestrodsbreak for no apparent reason, last year I saw a fine Winston snap like atwig forno reason (mind you I'm sure they made things right!). So far no one hassaidthey even know this man yet so many are willing to step forward and cuthisquality of work to shreds!Third, NOT SAYING IT IS TRUE, but who's to saythat this man didn't abuse the rod?? He might have tripped and fallen on it,hemay have been trying to land a 30" salmon on a Midge, or perhaps he justdidn'tkeep care of it?? It doesn't hurt to hear both sides of a story beforejumping toconclusions.I guess what I am trying to say is beforepeople do even more damage to this mans reputation than he already hasdonehimself at least get all the facts! Not excusing him for his lack ofrespondingto this man though! Shawn Pineo Mike Biondo wrote: Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often thesesortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there arecaseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and are willingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would begrateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to the rodmakerforrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might atleastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that was simplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 it brokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so Ithought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably some flaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul onOctober8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have leftmessageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well as numerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired ornot. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208 andstillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's end andat thevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was my firstoronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about thewhole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like to preventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not to mentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jul 11 09:51:31 2000 e6BEpUG06086 Subject: Re: Granger In a message dated 7/10/00 7:18:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Kesty25@aol.com writes: John, If the ink stamp shaft writing is missing then the model can be determined from the wrap colors. This rod is worth quite a bit ($600 - $900) and is worth leaving inrestored if at all possible. Only repair anything that needs touching up. IMHO, Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jul 11 10:38:49 2000 e6BFcmG08119 Subject: Re: Granger/E-Bay I am a little suspect on this rod going for $700.00-$800.00 on E-Bay. I have a Philipson on E-Bay right now and I haven't gotten one bid.Bret from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jul 11 11:06:40 2000 e6BG6dG09285 PDT Subject: RE: Followup Quad Question Barry, I've only cast an Edwards No. 25, but I agree with your impressions. It was delicate up close and gained power as more line was extended. It was a very noticeable characteristic with this rod. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu---------- Original Text ---------- I've only made 2 quads but so far my take is that given the same taper as ahex (that is, converted to quad using the same factor all the way throughthe taper, usually 0.932) the difference between the tip, mid and buttstiffness is greater in the quad. The tip feels softer, but as you flex intothe mid and butt the power seems to increase more rapidly than in the hexversion. So it's softer in the tip and faster in the mid/butt. I wonder ifthose with more experience have this same impression? Barry -----Original Message-----From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 8:26 AM Cc: BambooRods@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Followup Quad Question/Zimny Bret and Mark,I always thought the same way, Ithought the quad wouldbe faster with a stiffer action, but anyone I talk to thatbuilds them says theopposite is true.I do think that the quad is a bit lighterthough.I haven't built a quad yet and havelimited experiencebuilding them so I only have other peoples opinions to goon. ShawnGrhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Shawn,I don't really know what makes you think a quad is slowerthan a hex rod butI think you may be wrong (no offense) but I cast one ofJohn Zimny's rods atGreyrock and I can tell you I saw more power and morespeed than I saw in anyhex of the same line wght.bret from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Jul 11 11:09:54 2000 e6BG9rG09441 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected It would be interesting if someone would inquire about ordering a rod fromthe absentee builder and see if there is a response. Then kick it up anotch. If he promised to fix the problem, then accepted the rod via themail, we have mail fraud and I would get the Postmaster involved. $1000is not pocket change to most folks. The mail fraud form is available online at the USPS website or I would be glad to FAX or mail a copy to thefellow involved. Then let the Postal Inspector call this builder, that'stheir job. I hope there is an explanation but this no communication for solong must be killing the poor guy that is without his rod. Regards, BobFly Supplieshttp://flysupplies.homepage.com/ On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, marty wrote: Hi Shawn, It's very easy to answer a phone call or return a phone callUNLESS you wish to screw somebody. That is what this sounds like. Marty DeSapio from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jul 11 12:06:55 2000 e6BH6tG12103 Subject: Re: Granger/E-Bay I saw that. Having been watching Ebay for a while I've noticed that rodswith high bids and no reserve may go until the last minute before gettingany bids. On the other hand a rod that has a low first bid and a highreserve may exceed the cost of the no reserve rod. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Granger/E-Bay I am a little suspect on this rod going for $700.00-$800.00 on E-Bay. Ihavea Philipson on E-Bay right now and I haven't gotten one bid.Bret from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jul 11 12:49:56 2000 e6BHntG13438 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Granger/E-Bay Importance: Normal eBay is an unreliable pricing guide. Sometimes prices are real low andsometimes the prices are quite high. It all depends on who's interested inthe item for sale. I've had rods I've tried to sell on my web site for $275and they have sold for $575 on ebay and vice versa. If you have 2-4 biddersthat price is no object and MUST WIN at any cost, you will see phenomenalprices. There are many factors to consider. When I see a rod get a good price on ebay, if I have the same rod, I'll putit on ebay... But usually the price will be different, more or less... Justdepends who's lookin that week. I've found that rods $500 and up usually get a better price on my web siteand the rods under $300 do well on ebay and my web site. There are tons ofexceptions however. The bargains lately have been the South Bends andShakespeares as they have been selling well below book value lately.Phillipsons have been selling above book value. Most of the production rodsin the $200-450 price range have been selling in the 10-25% above bookvalue The high end rods such as Garrison, Gillum, Dickerson usually don't do verywell on ebay. They usually don't seem to hit the reserves or else sell belowbook values. Often, it has to do with no inspection period and a seller ofunknown character. Who's willing to send $2-5k to a seller with zerofeedback? It could be a rip-off... This is why where the tackle dealers havea strong advantage. The rods under $300, the majority of the rod buyers aremore willing to gamble on prepaying for a rod from a seller of unknowncharacter, since, often those sellers come across some great rods and theyhaven't a clue as to the value. I've bought rods that the seller found inthe rafters of a house they bought... the money I sent them probably paid The quality bait casting rods are starting to perk up in prices and action.Since there are a lot fewer quality casting rods, my theory is that theyshould bring premium prices once more collectors recognize the scarcity andbegin collecting them like the fly rods. I've picked up several Heddoncasting rods for under $45 each that require restoration but are otherwisecomplete condition. Yet, it's near impossible to get a more common Heddonfly rod for that price with all sections full length. Bret, regarding your rod for sale, Phillipson is very hot right now... butyou have some problems with your ad. 1)Your title should have read more like"Phillipson Bamboo Fly Rod 8', 3pc" 2)You should have a couple of pics ifpossible, 3) You should state that all sections are original full length, 4)You should offer a 3-7 day inspection period, especially since there are nopics. 5) Your rod is a single tip, that really hurts the value. Marty Keenetold me that without the second tip, the rod is only 50% complete. But hewas wanting to buy a few of my rods. His theory is that the tips were to berotated in their use so that they would breakdown equally so he calls them asecond tip, not a spare tip. I've found that good pics is worth 10-20% added value (my scanner/digitalcamera pics usually suck unfortunately, so my buyers are usually pleasantlysurprised), an inspection period is also worth 10-20% but the other problemssuch as the title is important... I always search using "bamboo rod" so yourrod would not show up in my search. Also, many serious Phillipson collectorsmight only search the title and not the text so they will miss your item aswell. I've been teased by some of my bargain hunting collector buddies that theydon't bother with my auctions as I often get premium prices for my items...I will say that is sometimes the case, but I have had several buyers turnright around and resell a rod they bought from me and make an additional$100-500 profit over what they paid for the item. Sorry for the wordy message, but I thought others might benefit as well...Hmmm... I think I'll write a longer more in-depth article on how to sellyour items on the auction block... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Granger/E-Bay I am a little suspect on this rod going for $700.00-$800.00 on E-Bay. Ihavea Philipson on E-Bay right now and I haven't gotten one bid.Bret from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jul 11 13:39:45 2000 e6BIdiG14930 Subject: Re: Granger/E-Bay In a message dated 7/11/00 8:39:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Bret, What's the item #? Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jul 11 14:04:41 2000 e6BJ4fG15946 Subject: Re: Granger/E-Bay rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Bret, Darrell Lee is correct about feedback ratings etc. I won't bid on an expensive rod on eBay inless the seller has lots of auctions under his belt and a VERY positive feedback. A bad auction heading will greatly cut down the # of hits an item will get. So make sure bidders can find the item. You can buy a flatbed scanner for under $50 (here in LA) - IMHO that will be paided back out of your 1st auction price increase just by being able to show pictures. Most people that aren't beginner bidders won't bid until the last minute for many reasons. First, some people will find a bidder's name that always seems to be bidding on "nice stuff" and then do a "bidders" search what items that bidder is bidding on and over then overbid at the last second. The first bidder does the time consumming hard work of searching all the weird headings (IE -bambo fish stick) and the other person wins the bidding. Second, if the number of bids stays low, then the item isn't listed as a hot item. This keeps some people from following the auction. So it's in a bidders best interest to not bid early. Lastly, if I can snipe an auction at the last minute, I often can win at a much lower price. Most high bidders bid just enough to be winning and then doesn't increase his max. bid to much beyond the price he's winning at - so I can then snipe bid at the last minute with my real max. bid amount and do a K.O. bid and not have to worry about counterbids. So as a seller, you want to make it easy to find your auction and make the pictures tell the viewer "buy me - buy me!" and then reinforce the images with good text. (sell the sizzle, not the steak) else you're lost in static. Look at one of Darell's auctions - he's a master. Don Burns from dnorl@uswest.net Tue Jul 11 17:21:15 2000 e6BMLEG21855 (63.228.7.46) Subject: Re: Epon Brad,Your inference is that the alcohol works Better than the vinegar at therebinding stage. Is that correct? I too find it takes a good deal ofscrubing at the rebind stage with vinegar. A better method would be welcme.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epon Vinegar works ok for getting the excess resin off the blankduring binding. I have found that denatured alcohol works muchbetter at the rebinding stage. The vinegar seemed to leave somethingto be desired in getting the resin to come off the blank after 8 hours.Also I feel as if the alcohol will evaporate quickly enough as not toeffect the bond strength of the epon.... just my 2 cents worthBrad ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:25 AMSubject: Re: Epon I've had great experience with epon and I usually wipe down with vinegarasyou mentioned. I also unwrap about 10 hours later and rebind the blankafterwards. My initial rods were left in the string and I've always had problemsgettingthe string off of the rod while covered with hardened epon (strongstuff).That was until someone on the list mentioned about the vinegar trick (whoshould get credit? . . . please name yourself!). If you wait for it to harden, just sand/scrape through thethread/hardenedepoxy as I used to do. It takes a little more time, but you shouldn'tliftany bamboo fibers off this way. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 11 17:26:23 2000 e6BMQMG22050 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:25:40 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Forget the USPS doing anything until it gets to really big numbers ! We hada case of over $32K lost in a swindle, via the US mail. They would doNOTHING ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected It would be interesting if someone would inquire about ordering a rod fromthe absentee builder and see if there is a response. Then kick it up anotch. If he promised to fix the problem, then accepted the rod via themail, we have mail fraud and I would get the Postmaster involved. $1000is not pocket change to most folks. The mail fraud form is available online at the USPS website or I would be glad to FAX or mail a copy to thefellow involved. Then let the Postal Inspector call this builder, that'stheir job. I hope there is an explanation but this no communication for solong must be killing the poor guy that is without his rod. Regards, BobFly Supplieshttp://flysupplies.homepage.com/ On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, marty wrote: Hi Shawn, It's very easy to answer a phone call or return a phone callUNLESS you wish to screw somebody. That is what this sounds like.Marty DeSapio from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 11 17:58:58 2000 e6BMwvG22843 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:57:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon I would think care should be taken, with alcohol and epoxy. Alcohol is adefinite retarder to epoxy curing in its normal set up time. As long as itdoesn't get into the joints, there should be no problem, but the outer layerexcess may stay "rubbery' for and extended time. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon Brad,Your inference is that the alcohol works Better than the vinegar at therebinding stage. Is that correct? I too find it takes a good deal ofscrubing at the rebind stage with vinegar. A better method would bewelcme.Dave-----Original Message-----From: Bradley Love Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:43 AMSubject: Re: Epon Vinegar works ok for getting the excess resin off the blankduring binding. I have found that denatured alcohol works muchbetter at the rebinding stage. The vinegar seemed to leave somethingto be desired in getting the resin to come off the blank after 8 hours.Also I feel as if the alcohol will evaporate quickly enough as not toeffect the bond strength of the epon.... just my 2 cents worthBrad ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:25 AMSubject: Re: Epon I've had great experience with epon and I usually wipe down withvinegarasyou mentioned. I also unwrap about 10 hours later and rebind the blankafterwards. My initial rods were left in the string and I've always had problemsgettingthe string off of the rod while covered with hardened epon (strongstuff).That was until someone on the list mentioned about the vinegar trick(whoshould get credit? . . . please name yourself!). If you wait for it to harden, just sand/scrape through thethread/hardenedepoxy as I used to do. It takes a little more time, but you shouldn'tliftany bamboo fibers off this way. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 11 18:00:02 2000 e6BN02G22922 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:59:59 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Hi all,did a little research on this Paul R French guy, seems he is stillaround and instructing a rod building class in Arkansas! His shop is apparentlyin Spokane Washington. His rods are for sale on numerous sites for $1000 to$1500. There was one on E bay that sold for $1001.48, by what I read, thehighestpriced rod for that period on E bay?Here is the real kicker, this guy was at Grayrock 98 and took part in theMakers rod for that year. Someone here must know this guy??The bio on him at this artisans school says he apprenticed under DarrylWhitehead with Leo Santiago( his assistant).I wonder if the rod in question is the one sold on e bay?? This guyseems to be well known and established, why would he shoot himself in thefootlike this?? I thought maybe he had died or was sick, guess not! I am seriouslythinking of phoning him and see what he has to say?Mike, perhaps this Doug Horn could tell us some more about this deal? Shawn Pineo Mike Biondo wrote: Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often these sortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there are caseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and are willingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would be grateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to the rodmaker forrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might at leastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that was simplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 it brokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so I thought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably some flaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul on October8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have leftmessageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well as sentnumerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired or not. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208 andstillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's end and atthevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was my first oronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about the whole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like to preventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not to mentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Jul 11 18:43:32 2000 e6BNhVG24022 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A103EEFA00A6; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:42:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon Hey Dave,Yes I have found that the alcohol cuts the resin quicker andwith less scrubbing. The scrubbing really concerned me alongwith the pressure I was exerting on the blank when I was usingvinegar as a solvent. The alcohol cuts the resin quickly and with verylittle pressure, just wipe clean...if you are going to heat set the blankI really dont think the alcohol will cause to much of a problem(my opiniontime may show me wrong...) as long as the blank is wiped dry before heatingor aging.I just hang mine in the box for a week and a half, my oven leaves somethingto bedesired in temp control, so I don't heat set at this time. just my opinionBrad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon Brad,Your inference is that the alcohol works Better than the vinegar at therebinding stage. Is that correct? I too find it takes a good deal ofscrubing at the rebind stage with vinegar. A better method would bewelcme.Dave-----Original Message-----From: Bradley Love Vinegar works ok for getting the excess resin off the blankduring binding. I have found that denatured alcohol works much----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:25 AMSubject: Re: Epon I've had great experience with epon and I usually wipe down withvinegarasyou mentioned. I also unwrap about 10 hours later and rebind the blankafterwards. from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jul 11 18:49:48 2000 e6BNnlG24225 (204.186.33.129) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Russ Gooding at Golden Witch is buddy's with Darryl Whitehead (heapprenticed under him). Maybe he knows the guy. I know I have seen hisrods in Len Caddela's Sporting Enterprises. Marty Hi all,did a little research on this Paul R French guy, seems he is stillaround and instructing a rod building class in Arkansas! His shop isapparentlyin Spokane Washington. His rods are for sale on numerous sites for $1000to$1500. There was one on E bay that sold for $1001.48, by what I read, thehighestpriced rod for that period on E bay?Here is the real kicker, this guy was at Grayrock 98 and took part intheMakers rod for that year. Someone here must know this guy??The bio on him at this artisans school says he apprenticed underDarrylWhitehead with Leo Santiago( his assistant).I wonder if the rod in question is the one sold on e bay?? This guyseems to be well known and established, why would he shoot himself in thefootlike this?? I thought maybe he had died or was sick, guess not! I amseriouslythinking of phoning him and see what he has to say?Mike, perhaps this Doug Horn could tell us some more about thisdeal? Shawn Pineo Mike Biondo wrote: Hello Folks, I thought I would forward this message to the list. Quite often thesesortof things are simply a misunderstanding, but unfortunately there arecaseswhen it's more. If any you personally know this rodmaker, and are willingto ask about this case, I'm sure the author of this letter would begrateful. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~From: "Horn, Doug" Subject: Paul FrenchDate: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:28:28 -0400 I am trying to seek help in retrieving a rod that I sent to the rodmakerforrepair in October of 1998. I felt that contacting you guys might atleastbe worth the ink. I paid $1,000 for an 8 foot 6 weight, 2 piece, 2 tip rod (that was simplybeautiful) in early 1997 from Paul French. In the fall of 1998 it brokemid-cast right below the bottom ferrule. Paul (nice guy, or so Ithought)offered to repair it, indicating that he felt it was probably some flaw init's workmanship (his words, not mine). I sent the rod to Paul onOctober8, 1998 -- he confirmed receipt of the rod. 18 months later, after literally dozens of phone calls, letters, andfrustration, Paul no longer takes or returns my calls. I have leftmessageson his machine, with his wife, his daughter, and his mother as well as numerous letters simply asking that he return the rod -- repaired ornot. Paul still resides at 5802 Park West Courte, in Spokane, WA 99208 andstillhas the same phone number of 509-328-1562. I'm at my wit's end andat thevery least think that you should be aware of this. If this was my firstoronly cane rod, I would have a very bad taste in my mouth about thewhole"cane brotherhood." It isn't and I don't. But I would sure like to preventsomeone else from experiencing this if at all possible -- not to mentiongetting my rod back. Thanks for any help you can provide. Doug Horn doug.horn@wl.com from channer1@rmi.net Tue Jul 11 19:26:54 2000 e6C0QrG24951 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Hey guys, here's a thought; why don't we all mind our own damn businessand let others tend to theirs. This is something that seems to me to bebetween Mr. French and his customer and should not even have beenmentioned here, we're not the rodmakers police, are we? Besides, it'snot nice to talk about people behind their back, or form conspiracies toget them busted.John from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Jul 11 19:36:06 2000 e6C0a5G25283 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Amen John from brewer@teleport.com Tue Jul 11 19:49:48 2000 e6C0nlG25600 (216.26.32.108) Subject: Justin Charles I just received my FFF Flyfisher magazine today and found an advertisementon the back cover for "Justin Charles TM Resin-impregnated split-bamboo flyrods" from Sparta, Wisconsin. The wrappings look somewhat like a productionrod, and dealer inquiries are invited. Anyone have information about thiscompany? No website information was provided and I didn't find anything witha quick search. It seems as if someone else is taking the production rodplunge. Comments? Randy Brewerrandy@brewerbamboorods.comhttp://www.brewerbamboorods.com "Helping to conserve precious graphite for stealth aircraft!" from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 11 20:16:43 2000 e6C1GeG26096 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:17:41 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected I can't help but believe one of the values of our, or any special interestlist, is to be able to air such problems. It could provide help, in morethan one way, and at the least, be a warning that there is recourse if onedoesn't get treated fairly. The man did not make any bad claims, other than for lack of response to aproblem, over an extended time ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Hey guys, here's a thought; why don't we all mind our own damn businessand let others tend to theirs. This is something that seems to me to bebetween Mr. French and his customer and should not even have beenmentioned here, we're not the rodmakers police, are we? Besides, it'snot nice to talk about people behind their back, or form conspiracies toget them busted.John from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jul 11 20:42:06 2000 e6C1g6G26939 Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:44:09 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Epon GeorgeI am using Epon on some rods, I just wipe the rod with a dry paper towel,hangit for about 24 hours, unwrap, do a quick scrape with a single edge razorblade,rebind and heat at 180* F for 4 hours. After 18-24 hours before heatsetting,the glue is still rubbery as you said and comes off without any effort at all. Istill prefer to use the Elmer's. After the workout my son in law gave his rod Imade for him with Elmer's Carpenter's glue, I know they will stay together.Hefished almost every day for two weeks and fished that rod harder than Iwouldever think of fishing mine. nobler wrote: I would think care should be taken, with alcohol and epoxy. Alcohol is adefinite retarder to epoxy curing in its normal set up time. As long as itdoesn't get into the joints, there should be no problem, but the outer layerexcess may stay "rubbery' for and extended time. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Norling" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: Epon Brad,Your inference is that the alcohol works Better than the vinegar at therebinding stage. Is that correct? I too find it takes a good deal ofscrubing at the rebind stage with vinegar. A better method would bewelcme.Dave-----Original Message-----From: Bradley Love Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:43 AMSubject: Re: Epon Vinegar works ok for getting the excess resin off the blankduring binding. I have found that denatured alcohol works muchbetter at the rebinding stage. The vinegar seemed to leave somethingto be desired in getting the resin to come off the blank after 8 hours.Also I feel as if the alcohol will evaporate quickly enough as not toeffect the bond strength of the epon.... just my 2 cents worthBrad ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:25 AMSubject: Re: Epon I've had great experience with epon and I usually wipe down withvinegarasyou mentioned. I also unwrap about 10 hours later and rebind theblankafterwards. My initial rods were left in the string and I've always had problemsgettingthe string off of the rod while covered with hardened epon (strongstuff).That was until someone on the list mentioned about the vinegar trick(whoshould get credit? . . . please name yourself!). If you wait for it to harden, just sand/scrape through thethread/hardenedepoxy as I used to do. It takes a little more time, but you shouldn'tliftany bamboo fibers off this way. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 11 20:45:42 2000 e6C1jfG27072 18:45:35 PDT Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected maybe before our vigilante committee votes we shouldbe sure we have the facts staight. timothy troester --- nobler wrote:I can't help but believe one of the values of our,or any special interestlist, is to be able to air such problems. It couldprovide help, in morethan one way, and at the least, be a warning thatthere is recourse if onedoesn't get treated fairly. The man did not make any bad claims, other than forlack of response to aproblem, over an extended time ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:28 PMSubject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List MessageRejected Hey guys, here's a thought; why don't we all mindour own damn businessand let others tend to theirs. This is somethingthat seems to me to bebetween Mr. French and his customer and should noteven have beenmentioned here, we're not the rodmakers police,are we? Besides, it'snot nice to talk about people behind their back,or form conspiracies toget them busted.John ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from rmoon@ida.net Tue Jul 11 21:26:50 2000 e6C2QnG28317 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Thanks John that needed to be said Ralph from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 11 21:35:01 2000 e6C2Z0G28506 19:35:03 PDT Subject: Re: Epon i'm just intrested in whether any of you gentlemen useresorsinol. i'm just intrested in knowing for my owncuriosities sake. i use it and like it and am notmaking a "mines better than yours" statement i'mjust curios. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jul 11 21:56:48 2000 e6C2ukG28857 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:55:17 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "rod 'akers" Subject: RE: Epon Hi Timothy,I use Resourcinol and love the stuff. Some people don'tlike the dark wine colour though, as it will really show up any flaws intheir glue lines, but I get around that with flawless workmanship in thefirst place :) I think those perfectly straight, burgundy coloured lineslook quite tasteful but that's a matter of personal preference. You're not alone !! Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epon i'm just intrested in whether any of you gentlemen useresorsinol. i'm just intrested in knowing for my owncuriosities sake. i use it and like it and am notmaking a "mines better than yours" statement i'mjust curios. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jul 11 22:15:36 2000 e6C3FaG29188 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:10:35 -0500 "Rodmaker's List" Subject: Re: Justin Charles boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0121_01BFEB84.F0E652E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0121_01BFEB84.F0E652E0 Comments? Yep... good for them... to me that means that if there is =room in the market for production bamboo rods, then the market must be =expanding, so we'll all sell more rods. Here's a little something I =read today that probably won't hurt that prospect either... "Bamboo rods are considered to be the finest form of the rod maker's =art. Because building a bamboo rod is very time consuming, they are =quite expensive and probably not the first rod you will want to =consider. Bamboo rods are usually more flexible than graphite and =therefore have a slower action. However, for some types of fishing, =where a delicate presentation is necessary, bamboo cannot be beaten. =Many experienced fly fishers feel the pinnacle of the sport is catching =a nice spring creek trout on a small dry fly with a bamboo rod." Excerpt from FFF's Booklet "Introduction to Fly Fishing" by Judy =Lehmberg Thanks, Judy, wherever you are... we LOVE to read stuff like that! *S* Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Justin Charles I just received my FFF Flyfisher magazine today and found an =advertisementon the back cover for "Justin Charles TM Resin-impregnated split-bamboo =flyrods" from Sparta, Wisconsin. The wrappings look somewhat like a =productionrod, and dealer inquiries are invited. Anyone have information about =thiscompany? No website information was provided and I didn't find anything =witha quick search. It seems as if someone else is taking the production =rodplunge. Comments? Randy Brewerrandy@brewerbamboorods.comhttp://www.brewerbamboorods.com "Helping to conserve precious graphite for stealth aircraft!" ------=_NextPart_000_0121_01BFEB84.F0E652E0 room in the market for production bamboo rods, then the market must today that probably won't hurt that prospect either... are = is very time consuming, they are quite expensive and probably not the = rod." Lehmberg *S* Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: = Rodmaker's List <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= to conserve precious graphite for stealth = ------=_NextPart_000_0121_01BFEB84.F0E652E0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jul 12 02:46:31 2000 e6C7kCG02088 Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:44:55 +0800 Subject: Re: Justin Charles "Rodmaker's List" I'd put Judy on my Christmas card list! Tony be rod is very time consuming, they are quite expensive and probably not the pinnacle of the sport is catching a nice spring creek trout on a smalldry fly with a bamboo rod." Excerpt from FFF's Booklet "Introduction to Fly Fishing" by JudyLehmberg Thanks, Judy, wherever you are... we LOVE to read stuff like that!*S* Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Justin Charles and found an advertisement split-bamboo fly production this anything with rod aircraft!" /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jul 12 02:49:39 2000 e6C7nWG02199 Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:49:06 +0800 Subject: RE: Epon "rod 'akers" I'll vouch for that. If the workpersonship (?!?) is good.Nothng wrong with Mike's work so the lines are very faint and quite nicelooking in their own way but it would look a bit average if there weretearouts and broad glue lines. Tony At 10:53 AM 7/12/00 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Hi Timothy,I use Resourcinol and love the stuff. Some people don'tlike the dark wine colour though, as it will really show up any flaws intheir glue lines, but I get around that with flawless workmanship in thefirst place :) I think those perfectly straight, burgundy coloured lineslook quite tasteful but that's a matter of personal preference. You're not alone !! Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2000 10:35 Subject: Re: Epon i'm just intrested in whether any of you gentlemen useresorsinol. i'm just intrested in knowing for my owncuriosities sake. i use it and like it and am notmaking a "mines better than yours" statement i'mjust curios. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jul 12 05:46:56 2000 e6CAktG04037 (204.186.33.18) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected That's easy to say when it's not your rod. If this happened to me Iwould like to know there was some place to turn. Because of this Mr.French will get the message and answer the damn phone. Marty Hey guys, here's a thought; why don't we all mind our own damn businessand let others tend to theirs. This is something that seems to me to bebetween Mr. French and his customer and should not even have beenmentioned here, we're not the rodmakers police, are we? Besides, it'snot nice to talk about people behind their back, or form conspiracies toget them busted.John from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Jul 12 08:06:23 2000 e6CD6NG07287 06:06:24 PDT Subject: RE: Epon well, thanks for your replies. i was beginning tofeel lonesome. i like resorsinol myself, it worksgood. i do make more flamed rods so the purple linesdon't show. thanks again. i just wanted to take alittle impromptu survey. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from jczimny@dol.net Wed Jul 12 09:22:45 2000 e6CEMiG10326 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Epon Where are you getting your resorsinol??John Z timothy troester wrote: well, thanks for your replies. i was beginning tofeel lonesome. i like resorsinol myself, it worksgood. i do make more flamed rods so the purple linesdon't show. thanks again. i just wanted to take alittle impromptu survey. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jul 12 10:30:51 2000 e6CFUoG12698 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: High Wood River Just saw a bit of an interesting show on tv about the low waterproblem out in High Wood river in Alberta. I think that's part of theBow system isn't it?? Seems water levels are down all over, at leastNorth America. from what I got, too much water is being diverted for personal useand the trout are suffering. Maybe Don or Craig or one of our otherAlberta's could tell me/everyone a little more as I only caught part ofthe show. Apparently the govt wants to build reservoirs to help out butresidents are complaining they don't want it on their land??It might be interesting to hear about stuff like this from allover if anyone would like? Here in Nova Scotia water levels are alwayslow this time of year for the same reasons. They dam off a lot of waterand it starves the small streams and rivers. Shawn Pineo from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Jul 12 13:46:26 2000 e6CIkPG19800 LAA19253 Subject: reelseat finishes Hi list! A very nice, and very thoughtful good friend who makes pens on his lathegave me a reelseat insert he turned from a piece of walnut he had leftover from another project. I'd like to use it, but I would need to putsome kind of a finish on it. I found one reference in old postings tousing Minwax Antique Oil Finish, but wondered if there are otherreelseat finishes that I might maybe ought to consider. Would somethinglike a carnuba wax be a good idea? Seems like it would be too late totry to do any of the stabilizer stuff (penta- whateveritwas), or wouldit? Sure would appreciate your help and suggestions (again!). Thanks! Best regards to all, mac from ddeloach@pcisys.net Wed Jul 12 14:01:45 2000 e6CJ1iG20580 Subject: Colorado Springs? Any grass planers in the Springs? I'm here, but I haven't built a rod in acouple of years. I plan on doing so soon though. As for everyone else, if you are planning a trip to Colo this season andneed some advice on rivers, lodging, etc. drop me a line off list. Thefishing is fantastic right now! -Don DeLoachColorado Springs, CO from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jul 12 16:58:10 2000 e6CLw9G26398 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:59:29 -0500 Subject: Re: reelseat finishes Why not a varnish finish, just like the cane ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: reelseat finishes Hi list! A very nice, and very thoughtful good friend who makes pens on his lathegave me a reelseat insert he turned from a piece of walnut he had leftover from another project. I'd like to use it, but I would need to putsome kind of a finish on it. I found one reference in old postings tousing Minwax Antique Oil Finish, but wondered if there are otherreelseat finishes that I might maybe ought to consider. Would somethinglike a carnuba wax be a good idea? Seems like it would be too late totry to do any of the stabilizer stuff (penta- whateveritwas), or wouldit? Sure would appreciate your help and suggestions (again!). Thanks! Best regards to all, mac from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jul 12 17:45:52 2000 e6CMjpG27761 (204.186.33.13) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: reelseat finishes Spar Varnish works fine but I like Polyurethane better on seats. Itproduces a harder finish that resists scuffs from the slide band. Marty Why not a varnish finish, just like the cane ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph MacKenzie" Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 1:42 PMSubject: reelseat finishes Hi list! A very nice, and very thoughtful good friend who makes pens on his lathegave me a reelseat insert he turned from a piece of walnut he had leftover from another project. I'd like to use it, but I would need to putsome kind of a finish on it. I found one reference in old postings tousing Minwax Antique Oil Finish, but wondered if there are otherreelseat finishes that I might maybe ought to consider. Would somethinglike a carnuba wax be a good idea? Seems like it would be too late totry to do any of the stabilizer stuff (penta- whateveritwas), or wouldit? Sure would appreciate your help and suggestions (again!). Thanks! Best regards to all, mac from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jul 12 18:14:56 2000 e6CNEuG28679 ; id RAA1973533 Subject: Re: Colorado Springs? creator="4D4F5353" Hey Harriett and i are fine, nice to see you are getting ready again...i'mstill finishing my shop. went through Co on my way back from mich.. was going to look you up butit was the middle of the night and i was flying..low.. maybe nextyear..glad to hear you are getting a lot of fishing in..so have i butnot very good quality. hi to cindy regards jerry from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jul 12 20:03:46 2000 e6D13jG00470 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected I had a friend who had $11,000.00 stolen by USPS. They were quite blatantabout it. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Forget the USPS doing anything until it gets to really big numbers ! Wehada case of over $32K lost in a swindle, via the US mail. They would doNOTHING ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected It would be interesting if someone would inquire about ordering a rodfromthe absentee builder and see if there is a response. Then kick it up anotch. If he promised to fix the problem, then accepted the rod via themail, we have mail fraud and I would get the Postmaster involved. $1000is not pocket change to most folks. The mail fraud form is available online at the USPS website or I would be glad to FAX or mail a copy to thefellow involved. Then let the Postal Inspector call this builder, that'stheir job. I hope there is an explanation but this no communication forsolong must be killing the poor guy that is without his rod. Regards, BobFly Supplieshttp://flysupplies.homepage.com/ On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, marty wrote: Hi Shawn, It's very easy to answer a phone call or return a phone callUNLESS you wish to screw somebody. That is what this sounds like.Marty DeSapio from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jul 12 20:16:21 2000 e6D1GAG00790 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:15:06 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Yes, all of us were really "hot" over the failure of the USPS to do a singlething ! They will check into telephone fraud, but here was lots of bucks,many people were screwed out of, and not one thing done ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected I had a friend who had $11,000.00 stolen by USPS. They were quite blatantabout it. ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Forget the USPS doing anything until it gets to really big numbers ! Wehada case of over $32K lost in a swindle, via the US mail. They would doNOTHING ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected It would be interesting if someone would inquire about ordering a rodfromthe absentee builder and see if there is a response. Then kick it upanotch. If he promised to fix the problem, then accepted the rod viathemail, we have mail fraud and I would get the Postmaster involved.$1000is not pocket change to most folks. The mail fraud form is availableonline at the USPS website or I would be glad to FAX or mail a copy tothefellow involved. Then let the Postal Inspector call this builder,that'stheir job. I hope there is an explanation but this no communicationforsolong must be killing the poor guy that is without his rod. Regards, BobFly Supplieshttp://flysupplies.homepage.com/ On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, marty wrote: Hi Shawn, It's very easy to answer a phone call or return a phonecallUNLESS you wish to screw somebody. That is what this sounds like.Marty DeSapio from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jul 12 20:21:02 2000 e6D1L1G00946 Subject: Re: High Wood River Shawn,In Arkansas we had an unusually dry Winter and Spring. That, in and ofitself, wouldn't have been so bad on the fish. The problem here is thattheCorps mismanaged the water resource that they had, for reasons knownonlytothem. This caused problems for the fish. "We're the Corps of Engineersandwe don't care. We don't have to." ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 11:26 AMSubject: High Wood River Just saw a bit of an interesting show on tv about the low waterproblem out in High Wood river in Alberta. I think that's part of theBow system isn't it?? Seems water levels are down all over, at leastNorth America. from what I got, too much water is being diverted for personal useand the trout are suffering. Maybe Don or Craig or one of our otherAlberta's could tell me/everyone a little more as I only caught part ofthe show. Apparently the govt wants to build reservoirs to help out butresidents are complaining they don't want it on their land??It might be interesting to hear about stuff like this from allover if anyone would like? Here in Nova Scotia water levels are alwayslow this time of year for the same reasons. They dam off a lot of waterand it starves the small streams and rivers. Shawn Pineo from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Jul 12 21:03:47 2000 e6D23kG01918 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A49AA240080; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:08:26 -0400 Subject: Tips wanted All,I've put a TIPS section on my webpage. I hope that we can share sometips on fishing, rodmaking, things related to fishing, recipes, etc.Also, I should have the 32 pages on rodbuilding from WiseFishermen's on my webpage under "extracts" by the weekend.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Jul 12 23:19:07 2000 e6D4J7G03628 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:19:07 -0600 Subject: Re: High Wood River Shawn, The High Wood river is the primary spawning stream for the Bow River. It'sheadwater streams culture most of the rainbows that use the Bow. The BowRiver rainbow stock smolt to the main river during their second year. TheDept. of Environment has a water diversion on the High Wood River in thetown of High River. This siphons off most of the water to the little Bowdrainage for irrigation purposes. Along with the water goes a pile ofrainbows. The remaining fish that survive the diversion are now faced withlow water to get back to the Bow.Only in Alberta do you get the Dept. of Environment killing fish in a majorway in contravention of Federal statues.Oh, the Alberta Advantage. And this is the same Dept. of Environment thathas allocated 130% of the normal water flow in the High Wood River forirrigation.88% of all water used in Alberta is used by irrigation and the % isincreasing. Domestic and other farm uses don't count for "squat". This iswhat happens when water unlike all other resources has no value. And climbing off his soap box - he say's "Aren't you sorry you asked? Catch ya' Don At 12:26 PM 7/12/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Just saw a bit of an interesting show on tv about the low waterproblem out in High Wood river in Alberta. I think that's part of theBow system isn't it?? Seems water levels are down all over, at leastNorth America. from what I got, too much water is being diverted for personal useand the trout are suffering. Maybe Don or Craig or one of our otherAlberta's could tell me/everyone a little more as I only caught part ofthe show. Apparently the govt wants to build reservoirs to help out butresidents are complaining they don't want it on their land??It might be interesting to hear about stuff like this from allover if anyone would like? Here in Nova Scotia water levels are alwayslow this time of year for the same reasons. They dam off a lot of waterand it starves the small streams and rivers. Shawn Pineo http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from troutchaser@home.com Wed Jul 12 23:49:02 2000 e6D4n1G04108 (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP Subject: Re: High Wood River Don, your absolutely right. As an ex-Alberta Irrigation Dept. employee,I can vouch for your correctness. In addition to the drawdown, there isrumblings both in the press and in the fishing fraternity that thegovernment is now planning to build a reservoir further up stream fromthe Little Bow reservoir to further control a continuous supply of waterto the farming community. Sad news to be sure as this new reservoir would probably have little orno recreation value. ....ronCalgary, AB----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: High Wood River Shawn, The High Wood river is the primary spawning stream for the Bow River.It'sheadwater streams culture most of the rainbows that use the Bow. TheBowRiver rainbow stock smolt to the main river during their second year.Thehttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Jul 13 03:23:14 2000 e6D8NDG06232 Subject: archive address- to look up NS suppliers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFEC82.0E4575C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFEC82.0E4575C0 Guys,If someone could send me the url for the website so I can look in the =archives, I won't bother the List for names of suppliers of NS. I want =to buy some short lengths to keep on hand so that I can make a couple =ferrules now and then for some of my tomato stakes--kind of like ='emergency' stock. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFEC82.0E4575C0 Guys,If someone could send me the url for = I can look in the archives, I won't bother the List for names of = NS. I want to buy some short lengths to keep on hand so that I can make = ferrules now and then for some of my tomato stakes--kind of like = stock. Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFEC82.0E4575C0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jul 13 06:35:10 2000 e6DBZ7G07876 Subject: varnishing Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFED11.4BACB560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFED11.4BACB560 I have just finished the building phase of a Dickerson Guide Special, =and am ready to apply varnish.I have always dipped my rods, and am, in an ongoing niggly sort of way, =very dissatisfied with my finish. Some of that, I know, is due to the =physical environment in which I operate - for example, it kind of tends =to mar the finish a little when your 4'0" piece of flypaper gets hit by =a kazillion flying insects during the dipping process!But I cannot help wondering whether there is not a better way of =applying the polyurethane. I am interested in the possibility of using a =spray gun or an airbrush to do this.Any opinions?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFED11.4BACB560 I have just finished the building phase = Dickerson Guide Special, and am ready to apply varnish.I have always dipped my rods, and am, = niggly sort of way, very dissatisfied with my finish. Some of = kind of tends to mar the finish a little when your 4'0" piece of = hit by a kazillion flying insects during the dipping =process! possibility of using a spray gun or an airbrush to do this.Any opinions?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFED11.4BACB560-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 13 07:00:40 2000 e6DC0dG08218 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:00:35 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: High Wood River Don,the oil companies aren't much better are they? I know when I left ColdLake they were really sucking the water out of the lake for oil production.Hard on the Lake trout, walleye, and pike.Shawn PineoDon & Sandy Andersen wrote: Shawn, The High Wood river is the primary spawning stream for the Bow River. It'sheadwater streams culture most of the rainbows that use the Bow. TheBowRiver rainbow stock smolt to the main river during their second year. TheDept. of Environment has a water diversion on the High Wood River in thetown of High River. This siphons off most of the water to the little Bowdrainage for irrigation purposes. Along with the water goes a pile ofrainbows. The remaining fish that survive the diversion are now faced withlow water to get back to the Bow.Only in Alberta do you get the Dept. of Environment killing fish in a majorway in contravention of Federal statues.Oh, the Alberta Advantage. And this is the same Dept. of Environment thathas allocated 130% of the normal water flow in the High Wood River forirrigation.88% of all water used in Alberta is used by irrigation and the % isincreasing. Domestic and other farm uses don't count for "squat". This iswhat happens when water unlike all other resources has no value. And climbing off his soap box - he say's "Aren't you sorry you asked? Catch ya' Don At 12:26 PM 7/12/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Just saw a bit of an interesting show on tv about the low waterproblem out in High Wood river in Alberta. I think that's part of theBow system isn't it?? Seems water levels are down all over, at leastNorth America. from what I got, too much water is being diverted for personal useand the trout are suffering. Maybe Don or Craig or one of our otherAlberta's could tell me/everyone a little more as I only caught part ofthe show. Apparently the govt wants to build reservoirs to help out butresidents are complaining they don't want it on their land??It might be interesting to hear about stuff like this from allover if anyone would like? Here in Nova Scotia water levels are alwayslow this time of year for the same reasons. They dam off a lot of waterand it starves the small streams and rivers. Shawn Pineo http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 07:02:13 2000 e6DC2CG08320 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:01:33 -0500 Subject: True spar varnish Good news guys ! Through another list, for model builders, I was informed of this web site:www.epifanes.com I received a nice reply this morning from a Mr. Doug Theobalds, that statesthe ship free anywhere in the U.S., their Dutch brand of true Spar Varnish.This is the only one I've found, that doesn't have some sort of urethane init. I'm told that Benjamin Moore still makes a pure varnish, but I've notchecked it out. GMA from gholland@uswest.net Thu Jul 13 07:38:59 2000 e6DCcxG09124 (207.225.28.248) Subject: Re: Colorado Springs? Don-I live in Colorado Springs and have been lurking on the list for some time.I'm slowly trying to gather the tools, etc.... So, I'm not "planing any grass" yet...but hopefully soon. I'd love to gettogether and talk fishing and bamboo. Please contact me off list. Thanks, Greg Holland Don DeLoach wrote: Any grass planers in the Springs? I'm here, but I haven't built a rod in acouple of years. I plan on doing so soon though. As for everyone else, if you are planning a trip to Colo this season andneed some advice on rivers, lodging, etc. drop me a line off list. Thefishing is fantastic right now! -Don DeLoachColorado Springs, CO from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Jul 13 07:40:24 2000 e6DCeNG09219 05:40:24 PDT Subject: Re: True spar varnish ace hardware stores carry a real spar also. timothy --- nobler wrote:Good news guys ! Through another list, for model builders, I wasinformed of this web site:www.epifanes.com I received a nice reply this morning from a Mr. DougTheobalds, that statesthe ship free anywhere in the U.S., their Dutchbrand of true Spar Varnish.This is the only one I've found, that doesn't havesome sort of urethane init. I'm told that Benjamin Moore still makes a purevarnish, but I've notchecked it out. GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Jul 13 07:58:34 2000 e6DCwYG09649 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: reelseat finishes Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. (For archive purposes:) sounds likethe Watco Danish Oil is good stuff, easy to use, and is the kind of thing Iwas looking for. Rubs/wipes on, has resins in it that harden the surface,and then is easy to touch up later if needed by just wiping on a touch upcoat and buffing it out. I'll give it a try. Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Hi list! A very nice, and very thoughtful good friend who makes pens on his lathegave me a reelseat insert he turned from a piece of walnut he had leftover from another project. I'd like to use it, but I would need to putsome kind of a finish on it. I found one reference in old postings tousing Minwax Antique Oil Finish, but wondered if there are otherreelseat finishes that I might maybe ought to consider. Would somethinglike a carnuba wax be a good idea? Seems like it would be too late totry to do any of the stabilizer stuff (penta- whateveritwas), or wouldit? Sure would appreciate your help and suggestions (again!). Thanks! Best regards to all, mac from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Jul 13 08:13:05 2000 e6DDD4G10521 Subject: Percentage re NS boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFECAA.77086EA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFECAA.77086EA0 Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to with regards to NS. Is this =the % lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than with copper alloys.Thanks,Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFECAA.77086EA0 Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to with= NS. Is this the % lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than = alloys.Thanks,Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFECAA.77086EA0-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Jul 13 08:40:26 2000 e6DDePG11709 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: True spar varnish Epifanes is the best varnish I've used. Finished my last rod with thisstuff,outstanding result!I also used it in the silk wrappings, makes a glassy look.Best of all, it's easy to rub down to a satin finish. danny nobler wrote: Good news guys ! Through another list, for model builders, I was informed of this web site:www.epifanes.com I received a nice reply this morning from a Mr. Doug Theobalds, that statesthe ship free anywhere in the U.S., their Dutch brand of true Spar Varnish.This is the only one I've found, that doesn't have some sort of urethane init. I'm told that Benjamin Moore still makes a pure varnish, but I've notchecked it out. GMA from lblove@omniglobal.net Thu Jul 13 09:04:54 2000 e6DE4sG12992 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AC85D7720248; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:04:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Percentage re NS boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFECA9.2B33B3A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFECA9.2B33B3A0 Mike,The % is nickel content, 12% ,18% the higher the nickel content =the,the lower the machinability of the material. There are some "alloy's" =of ns that containlead to increase the machinability, I would watch out for those as the = properties are different then the non leaded materials Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 8:12 AMSubject: Percentage re NS Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to with regards to NS. Is this =the % lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than with copper alloys.Thanks,Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFECA9.2B33B3A0 Mike, higher the nickel content the, some "alloy's" of ns that containlead to increase the machinability, I would watch = those as the mechanical materials ----- Original Message ----- mike Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 = AMSubject: Percentage re NS Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to = to NS. Is this the % lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than = copper alloys.Thanks,Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFECA9.2B33B3A0-- from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Thu Jul 13 09:31:52 2000 e6DEVoG13927 13 Jul 2000 10:31:01 -0400 nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Subject: RE: High Wood River Don, The thing that entertains me most about irrigation allowances and the damsbuilt in Alberta is THE EXTREMELY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATIONthatbenefits from the irrigation allowances. What Alberta has done is make acouple of hundred farmers instant millionaires at the taxpayers expense.The irrigation allowances in Alberta (and California for that matter) aresome of the most unprofitable (except for the user farmers) in the world.You have to love subsidized water. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: High Wood River Shawn, The High Wood river is the primary spawning stream for the Bow River. It'sheadwater streams culture most of the rainbows that use the Bow. The BowRiver rainbow stock smolt to the main river during their second year. TheDept. of Environment has a water diversion on the High Wood River in thetown of High River. This siphons off most of the water to the little Bowdrainage for irrigation purposes. Along with the water goes a pile ofrainbows. The remaining fish that survive the diversion are now faced withlow water to get back to the Bow.Only in Alberta do you get the Dept. of Environment killing fish in a majorway in contravention of Federal statues.Oh, the Alberta Advantage. And this is the same Dept. of Environment thathas allocated 130% of the normal water flow in the High Wood River forirrigation.88% of all water used in Alberta is used by irrigation and the % isincreasing. Domestic and other farm uses don't count for "squat". This iswhat happens when water unlike all other resources has no value. And climbing off his soap box - he say's "Aren't you sorry you asked? Catch ya' Don At 12:26 PM 7/12/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Just saw a bit of an interesting show on tv about the low waterproblem out in High Wood river in Alberta. I think that's part of theBow system isn't it?? Seems water levels are down all over, at leastNorth America. from what I got, too much water is being diverted for personal useand the trout are suffering. Maybe Don or Craig or one of our otherAlberta's could tell me/everyone a little more as I only caught part ofthe show. Apparently the govt wants to build reservoirs to help out butresidents are complaining they don't want it on their land??It might be interesting to hear about stuff like this from allover if anyone would like? Here in Nova Scotia water levels are alwayslow this time of year for the same reasons. They dam off a lot of waterand it starves the small streams and rivers. Shawn Pineo http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from dhaftel@att.com Thu Jul 13 09:47:59 2000 e6DElsG14560 KAA26924 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) Subject: Dawn Holbrook rod In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday evening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "too heavy") out of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every cast produced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SA lineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are they typicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Jul 13 10:24:55 2000 e6DFOsG15889 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:24:55 -0400 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Dawn Holbrook rod Interesting to hear that the Holbrook tapers are on the soft side. I havejust been given my first "commission" - a brother-in-law wants a"moderate-to- fast" (he's used to plastic) 9 weight for salmon fishing and Ihad been thinking of making a Holbrook for him. Now it sounds like I shouldbe doing something like a scaled-up Sir D. Does this work? Or can anyonesuggest a relatively fast salmon rod taper? -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO [SMTP:dhaftel@att.com]Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: Dawn Holbrook rod In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday eveningandwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line thatIthought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that Itriedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "tooheavy") lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every cast producedatailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are they typicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod.Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 13 11:00:44 2000 e6DG0iG17681 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:00:39 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines I don't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about the whole productline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday evening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "too heavy") out of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every cast producedatailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are they typicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from dhaftel@att.com Thu Jul 13 11:16:46 2000 e6DGGjG18211 MAA20548; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Dawn Holbrook rod Shawn, Please! We prefer "Plus Sizes". Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines I don'tknowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about the whole productline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday eveningandwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line thatIthought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that Itriedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "tooheavy") lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every cast producedatailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are they typicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod.Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Jul 13 11:30:34 2000 e6DGUYG19259 MAA18994; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Subject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 13 11:42:39 2000 e6DGgcG19719 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:37:36 -0500 Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. David,I use Pearsalls Gossamer and don't have any problems. I wrap before Ivarnish however. But usually I can seal the wraps with two thinned coats ofmy rod varnish then varnish the blank, and they lay down really nice. Ifyou're getting "fuzzies" then it is probably caused by your tensioningdevice. I have a stud, with springs and convex discs on either side of thespool and tension the spool not the thread. Gossamer is very fine andrunning it through a tensioner will cause it to fuzz up.Also, if you start getting a "build" on the wraps that is too high, oris uneven, then take a popsickle stick and some 600 wet and dry, and "dress"the varnish on the wraps until they are even and smooth. Be careful not tosand so much that you get through the varnish and into the silk... talkabout fuzzies!!!!, but if you're careful, you can sand the varnish on thewraps down, so your build is low and smooth and when you overvarnish theentire rod, your wraps will be very flat and smooth. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Jul 13 11:43:52 2000 e6DGhpG19823 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:43:44 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with a veryshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultra fastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on my mind....(terms again???) danny -------Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines I don't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about the wholeproductline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday eveningandwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had ever>> cast. I also have aScientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "tooheavy") lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every castproduced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jul 13 11:50:54 2000 e6DGorG20148 (204.186.33.162) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. I singe the wraps very carfully over an alcohol flame. It takes 3coats applied to the wraps (thin) .Another 2 -3 coats dipped. Sandlightly with #800-#1000 paper before the last coat. Marty How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jul 13 12:05:45 2000 e6DH5iG20681 (204.186.33.162) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod I think the TT line has a head that has a continuous taper for thefirst 30' or so. A WF line tapers in the first 10' and than levels outto 30' or so . Dennis , you sure you didn't pick up that FrenchtownDeleware River scum on the SA lines? Or maybe a Coney Island white eel?Marty I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with a veryshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultra fastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on my mind....(terms again???) danny ------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines I don't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about the wholeproductline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday eveningandwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than twoScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "tooheavy") lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every castproduced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on therod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Jul 13 12:15:30 2000 e6DHFTG21164 2000 10:15:30 PDT Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod Unless they have changed, the Triangle Tapers are a smooth 40 footfront taper. Compared to weight forwards: 1. the tip is finer2. the taper is 3-4 times as long3. the finish is much softer than that for most lines My experiences using these for 10 years now: There is no better rollcasting lineYou get incredibly smooth casts in the 20- 45 foot rangeThe rod will not load as fast for those 10-15 foot castsThe 4/5 (for example) seems to become a full 5 at 45+ feetThe lines wear/crack a little sooner than 3M/CortlandIf mathced to the rod for longer castig, they can goa long way on thesmall diameter running line --- Danny Twang wrote:I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with averyshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultrafastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on mymind....(terms again???) danny ------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) linesI don't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about thewhole productline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterdayevening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than twoScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striperline that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS orsomethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating linethat I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as"too heavy") shortened the lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost everycast produced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff madeboth SA lineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly aswell as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulfflines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and havefound theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitelyslow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action onthe rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Jul 13 12:32:05 2000 e6DHW4G21925 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:31:57 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod Seems like it is something between DT and WF....?If so thats great news, in my local flyfishing shop they have plenty ofWulff TT lines in "my" linesize at a very nice price. They say nobody wantsthe line, and it is from an old stock.Have the changed during its time on the marked, or ar all the same taper? regardsdanny From: Jerry Madigan Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod Unless they have changed, the Triangle Tapers are a smooth 40 footfront taper. Compared to weight forwards: 1. the tip is finer2. the taper is 3-4 times as long3. the finish is much softer than that for most lines My experiences using these for 10 years now: There is no better rollcasting lineYou get incredibly smooth casts in the 20- 45 foot rangeThe rod will not load as fast for those 10-15 foot castsThe 4/5 (for example) seems to become a full 5 at 45+ feetThe lines wear/crack a little sooner than 3M/CortlandIf mathced to the rod for longer castig, they can goa long way on thesmall diameter running line --- Danny Twang wrote:I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with averyshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultrafastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on mymind....(terms again???) danny -------> Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) linesI don't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about thewhole productline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterdayevening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than twoScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striperline that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS orsomethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating linethat I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as"too heavy") shortened the lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost everycast produced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff madeboth SA lineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly aswell as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulfflines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and havefound theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitelyslow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action onthe rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail ? Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from tklein@amgen.com Thu Jul 13 13:10:01 2000 e6DIA0G23350 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod I just recently switched to TT lines (following a suggestion from a listmember - thanks Bob!) and would wholeheartedly agree with everythingyou'vementioned here, especially the comments on roll casting and the differencein characteristics between short and long casts. I have one rod that I was never able to roll cast worth a darn. It justdidn't want to lay the line out for me. When I tried the TT line on it, Ican lay the line out perfectly every time. If you think about the shape ofthe taper, it makes perfect sense; Heavier, larger diameter line is alwaysleading and pulling the smaller diameter line that follows it. I believe that the casting characteristics of the line also allow for moreversatility. If I'm fishing a small stream, I'll step up a line weight toload the rod quicker. If you try this with a WF or DT line, you often getpoor presentation due to the extra diameter at the tip of the line. On theTT, the tip is much finer to begin with so the step up doesn't have much ofan impact. If I'm fishing a larger river I can use the same rod with aslightly lighter line but still load the rod appropriately on the longercasts. I was impressed enough that I've replaced most of my lines with the TT's. One thing I've heard from a couple of people is that they typically removesix inches or so from the tip of the line. They claim the line performs evenbetter, though I've been hesitant to give it a try (you can't put that sixinches back if you don't like it). Has anyone else heard mention of this? Ifso, do you have any idea why this might help or improve the linesperformance? The only thing I could think of is that maybe the manufacturing processleaves a few inches of level line at the front. I haven't taken the time tomic it though to find out.---Tim ----------From: Jerry Madigan[SMTP:gjm80301@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod Unless they have changed, the Triangle Tapers are a smooth 40 footfront taper. Compared to weight forwards: 1. the tip is finer2. the taper is 3-4 times as long3. the finish is much softer than that for most lines My experiences using these for 10 years now: There is no better rollcasting lineYou get incredibly smooth casts in the 20- 45 foot rangeThe rod will not load as fast for those 10-15 foot castsThe 4/5 (for example) seems to become a full 5 at 45+ feetThe lines wear/crack a little sooner than 3M/CortlandIf mathced to the rod for longer castig, they can goa long way on thesmall diameter running line --- Danny Twang wrote:I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with averyshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultrafastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on mymind....(terms again???) danny ------- > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) linesI don't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about thewhole productline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterdayevening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than twoScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striperline that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS orsomethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating linethat I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as"too heavy") shortened the lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost everycast produced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff madeboth SA lineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly aswell as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulfflines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and havefound theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitelyslow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action onthe rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Jul 13 13:23:10 2000 e6DIN9G23948 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. Importance: Normal Do you singe the wraps before color preserving? Singeing the wraps using an alcohol lamp, removes a lot/most of thefuzzies... What kind of rod wrapping system do you use? If you are using a rod winder/jig that uses a thread tensioner that usestwo discs and the thread goes inbetween the discs for the thread tension,these types of winders cause more frizzies... The old Thompson/Herters Winders put tension on the thread spool, not thethread... Golden Witch sells a repro model and I also have one extra thatI'm selling as well. These have also been used for hand binding your canerod blanks as well... Also, it's not too difficult to make a jig yourself and there are a fewcommercial jigs/stands that also do not put tension on the thread but on thespools. I doubt that it is the type of varnish you are using... Darrell -----Original Message----- Ph.D. Subject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Jul 13 13:36:28 2000 e6DIaRG24506 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:36:27 -0400 earsdws@duke.edu,Rodmakers Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. I have found that no matter how careful I am in singeing the wraps there isa slight darkening of color. Not much, considering what's going to happenwhen I varnish them, but still enough to be noticeable. Will this problemdisappear with experience after I've done a couple of hundred rods, or isthere some special technique that I'm missing? -----Original Message-----From: Darrell A. Lee [SMTP:darrell@rockclimbing.org]Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 2:12 PM Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. Do you singe the wraps before color preserving? Singeing the wraps using an alcohol lamp, removes a lot/most of thefuzzies... What kind of rod wrapping system do you use? If you are using a rod winder/jig that uses a thread tensioner thatusestwo discs and the thread goes inbetween the discs for the thread tension,these types of winders cause more frizzies... The old Thompson/Herters Winders put tension on the thread spool, notthethread... Golden Witch sells a repro model and I also have one extra thatI'm selling as well. These have also been used for hand binding your canerod blanks as well... Also, it's not too difficult to make a jig yourself and there are a fewcommercial jigs/stands that also do not put tension on the thread but onthespools. I doubt that it is the type of varnish you are using... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ph.D.Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 9:31 AM Subject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Thu Jul 13 13:55:41 2000 e6DIteG25330 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:55:36 PDT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: varnishing wraps question. I can vouch for the Goldenwitch repro tool that Darrell mentioned. It is really nice and I like it much better than the traditional wrapper I used before. I won mine at the raffle at last year's Troutdale gathering. Thanks Russ!!! Rob Clarke From: Seth Steinzor earsdws@duke.edu, Rodmakers Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question.Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:41:35 -0400 I have found that no matter how careful I am in singeing the wraps there isa slight darkening of color. Not much, considering what's going to happenwhen I varnish them, but still enough to be noticeable. Will this problemdisappear with experience after I've done a couple of hundred rods, or isthere some special technique that I'm missing? -----Original Message-----From: Darrell A. Lee [SMTP:darrell@rockclimbing.org]Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 2:12 PM Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. Do you singe the wraps before color preserving? Singeing the wraps using an alcohol lamp, removes a lot/most of thefuzzies... What kind of rod wrapping system do you use? If you are using a rod winder/jig that uses a thread tensioner thatusestwo discs and the thread goes inbetween the discs for the thread tension,these types of winders cause more frizzies... The old Thompson/Herters Winders put tension on the thread spool, not thethread... Golden Witch sells a repro model and I also have one extra thatI'm selling as well. These have also been used for hand binding your canerod blanks as well... Also, it's not too difficult to make a jig yourself and there are a fewcommercial jigs/stands that also do not put tension on the thread but onthespools. I doubt that it is the type of varnish you are using... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ph.D.Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 9:31 AM Subject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from cathcreek@hotmail.com Thu Jul 13 13:58:11 2000 e6DIwAG25476 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:58:06 PDT Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod The Wulff long belly lines are also quite nice. I think they are a little cheaper than the TT. I do really like the TT lines-almost as much as my silk :) Rob Clarke From: marty CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rodDate: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:00:35 -0400 I think the TT line has a head that has a continuous taper for thefirst 30' or so. A WF line tapers in the first 10' and than levels outto 30' or so . Dennis , you sure you didn't pick up that FrenchtownDeleware River scum on the SA lines? Or maybe a Coney Island white eel?Marty I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with a veryshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultra fastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on my mind....(terms again???) danny ------- > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines I don't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about the whole productline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday evening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "too heavy") the lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every cast produced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SA lineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are they typicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jul 13 14:28:33 2000 e6DJSWG26767 0400 Subject: RE: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFED01.AAF722E3" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFED01.AAF722E3 yeah Dennis...that striper line is really slick stuff...the Wulff is agreat line but I think you tested it's shooting characteristics afterone too many single malts...are you sure that wasn't cotton glace youwere casting instead of the striper line? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod I think the TT line has a head that has a continuous taper for thefirst 30' or so. A WF line tapers in the first 10' and than levels outto 30' or so . Dennis , you sure you didn't pick up that FrenchtownDeleware River scum on the SA lines? Or maybe a Coney Island whiteeel?Marty I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with averyshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultra fastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on mymind....(terms again???) danny ------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines Idon't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about thewhole productline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterdayevening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than twoScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striperline that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS orsomethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating linethat I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as"too heavy") shortened the lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every castproduced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff madeboth SA lineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as wellas theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulfflines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and havefound theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitelyslow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action onthe rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFED01.AAF722E3 RE: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod yeah Dennis...that striper line is really slick =stuff...the Wulff is a great line but I think you tested it's shooting =characteristics after one too many single malts...are you sure that =wasn't cotton glace you were casting instead of the striper =line? -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@=wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of martySent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 1:02 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod I think the TT line has a head that has a continuous =taper for thefirst 30' or so. A WF line tapers in the first 10' =and than levels outto 30' or so . Dennis , you sure you didn't pick up =that FrenchtownDeleware River scum on the SA lines? Or maybe a =Coney Island white eel?Marty was a WF line with a very shooting line for ultra fast from DT lines...... weeks ago on my mind.... Rods nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca -0400 and I have been highly "club" size (lol) lines I don't know =but good about the whole product wrote: Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday evening and with the Wulff TT8 than two Scientific have a Scientific Anglers Striper line that I I had ever Anglers "top of the line (XPS or something Bass Bug Taper Floating line that I tried =bit too slow (could be read as "too heavy") the casting down and shortened the line wouldn't shoot. =of those lines would shoot nearly as well as the convert. with the SA lines and have found the line? up and how badly. :-) ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFED01.AAF722E3-- from RBalex@webtv.net Thu Jul 13 14:50:37 2000 e6DJoaG27809 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA09163; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:50:37 - ETAsAhR/f44jcvYE2k3Jz2NjO59emPT1DwIUWtnzdfUTlB4gafDK4vSIq47ic5k= Subject: diamond paste and leather wheels A while back someone on the list posted a source and some info ondaimond past and leather wheels for final sharpening of plane blades.I meant to save this but my fingers tripped and it went out the door.Could you repost or contact me off line.? Also any hints and techniquesare appreciated.. thanks Alex from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Jul 13 14:51:11 2000 e6DJpAG27926 ,"'tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com'","rod 'akers" Subject: RE: Epon amen to that (resorcinol is all i use, for what that's worth) chris -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Epon Hi Timothy,I use Resourcinol and love the stuff. Some people don'tlike the dark wine colour though, as it will really show up any flaws intheir glue lines, but I get around that with flawless workmanship in thefirst place :) I think those perfectly straight, burgundy coloured lineslook quite tasteful but that's a matter of personal preference. You're not alone !! Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epon i'm just intrested in whether any of you gentlemen useresorsinol. i'm just intrested in knowing for my owncuriosities sake. i use it and like it and am notmaking a "mines better than yours" statement i'mjust curios. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from dhaftel@att.com Thu Jul 13 15:19:46 2000 e6DKJkG29019 QAA16741; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod Naaah... I think Marty was right. It's probably the water! Besides, I'mout of scotch. :-) But seriusly, I have noticed the Delaware has cleanedup nicely. There's even some decent fishing in there these days. That'swhere the Holbrook/Wulff combo is going to get the bulk of its work. Not tomention a certain private Central Joisey lake... -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod yeah Dennis...that striper line is really slick stuff...the Wulff is a greatline but I think you tested it's shooting characteristics after one too manysingle malts...are you sure that wasn't cotton glace you were castinginstead of the striper line? -----Original Message----- ]On Behalf Of marty Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod I think the TT line has a head that has a continuous taper for the first 30' or so. A WF line tapers in the first 10' and than levels out to 30' or so . Dennis , you sure you didn't pick up that Frenchtown Deleware River scum on the SA lines? Or maybe a Coney Island white eel? Marty I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with a very short head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultra fast plastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines...... I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on my mind.... (terms again???) danny ------- Danny Twang +47 35 55 80 24 GSM 908 94 054 Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo) Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis, I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highly impressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines I don'tknow how they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about the wholeproduct line. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday eveningand we (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than twoScientific Anglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper linethat I thought was the fastest shooting line I had ever cast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS orsomething like that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that Itried on the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "tooheavy") line out of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every castproduced a tailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlines look "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well asthe Wulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff linesthat slick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have foundthe right weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypically soft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow.Don't take that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on therod. I guess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jul 13 15:51:44 2000 e6DKphG00092 "'darrell@rockclimbing.org'" ,earsdws@duke.edu,Rodmakers Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. Seth, What have you been smoking in that lamp of yours? Unless you are overcooking it, silk isn't known to darken significantly on singing. However,what I suspect is either the fuel you are burning or the wick, is producingsome soot. Once when I used some laquer thinner as a substitute foralcohol, I could see a tell tale stream of soot come of the tip of theflame.I also got some darkening of the silk. You might hold a white chinadish over the flame for a few seconds and see if you get a dark deposit. Good luck, -Doug Easton At 02:41 PM 7/13/2000 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote:I have found that no matter how careful I am in singeing the wraps there isa slight darkening of color. Not much, considering what's going to happenwhen I varnish them, but still enough to be noticeable. Will this problemdisappear with experience after I've done a couple of hundred rods, or isthere some special technique that I'm missing? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 16:43:50 2000 e6DLhmG01589 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:29:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Percentage re NS It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes good ferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Percentage re NS Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to with regards to NS. Is this the %lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than with copper alloys.Thanks,Mike from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 16:47:04 2000 e6DLl3G01802 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:32:01 -0500 Subject: Re: True spar varnish At $151 + for a little over an Imp. gallon (5000 ml) this is pretty highdollar varnish ! I don't think Benjamin Moore is nearly so high. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: True spar varnish Epifanes is the best varnish I've used. Finished my last rod with thisstuff,outstanding result!I also used it in the silk wrappings, makes a glassy look.Best of all, it's easy to rub down to a satin finish. danny nobler wrote: Good news guys ! Through another list, for model builders, I was informed of this website:www.epifanes.com I received a nice reply this morning from a Mr. Doug Theobalds, thatstatesthe ship free anywhere in the U.S., their Dutch brand of true SparVarnish.This is the only one I've found, that doesn't have some sort of urethaneinit. I'm told that Benjamin Moore still makes a pure varnish, but I've notchecked it out. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 16:52:11 2000 e6DLqBG02007 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:36:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod from what you say. it sounds over loaded with a #9. An #8 should tell youquick ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dawn Holbrook rod In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday eveningandwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line thatIthought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that Itriedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "tooheavy")> for the rod, but even when I slowed the casting down and shortenedthelineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every cast producedatailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are they typicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod.Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Jul 13 17:06:14 2000 e6DM3qG02401 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:03:48 +0100 Subject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected I recently 'lost' $120 dollars via UPS on an internet purchase......I still have a big hole in my trouser pocket...........Paul Jojo DeLancier wrote: I had a friend who had $11,000.00 stolen by USPS. They were quite blatantabout it. ----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected Forget the USPS doing anything until it gets to really big numbers ! Wehada case of over $32K lost in a swindle, via the US mail. They would doNOTHING ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:09 AMSubject: Re: FW: list RODMAKERS: List Message Rejected It would be interesting if someone would inquire about ordering a rodfromthe absentee builder and see if there is a response. Then kick it up anotch. If he promised to fix the problem, then accepted the rod via themail, we have mail fraud and I would get the Postmaster involved. $1000is not pocket change to most folks. The mail fraud form is available online at the USPS website or I would be glad to FAX or mail a copy to thefellow involved. Then let the Postal Inspector call this builder, that'stheir job. I hope there is an explanation but this no communication forsolong must be killing the poor guy that is without his rod. Regards, BobFly Supplieshttp://flysupplies.homepage.com/ On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, marty wrote: Hi Shawn, It's very easy to answer a phone call or return a phone callUNLESS you wish to screw somebody. That is what this sounds like.Marty DeSapio from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Jul 13 17:20:23 2000 e6DMKMG03061 Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:20:16 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Percentage re NS e6DMKMG03062 Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but it makesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny-------Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 17:28:47 2000 e6DMSkG03330 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:28:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Percentage re NS N.S. is copper with zinc, nickel, tin, etc. ! Brass just doesn't have thenickel. or at least in such a high percentage. I have a couple of rods, madewith brass Super Z ferrules, that were made in the early 1960's, and theyonly require more care against corrosion, but are plenty strong. Gee, and tothink they were less than $5/ per pair ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Percentage re NS Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but it makesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 13 18:03:05 2000 e6DN34G04070 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:03:00 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Percentage re NS George,there you go again with that radical thinking!! ;^)Keep this up and we have to restrain you and up your dosages again! Shawn nobler wrote: N.S. is copper with zinc, nickel, tin, etc. ! Brass just doesn't have thenickel. or at least in such a high percentage. I have a couple of rods, madewith brass Super Z ferrules, that were made in the early 1960's, and theyonly require more care against corrosion, but are plenty strong. Gee, andtothink they were less than $5/ per pair ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Danny Twang" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 5:20 PMSubject: Re: Percentage re NS Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but it makesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny------- > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA from lblove@omniglobal.net Thu Jul 13 18:21:58 2000 e6DNLvG04571 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF106668008C; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:21:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Percentage re NS Next thing he'll want to do is make ferrules from sheet drawn thru a mandrel and soldered...and the welt rolled... hmm sounds kinda fun... Brad another thought, does anyone have a set of dimensions for step downferrules(like on the old montys), like Chris Bogart has for super Z's? is there a way to resize the female smaller? any tricks that anyone canthink of?the previous own just put a heavy coat of varnish on the misfitted male... also is there a listing of monty tapers to check a rod against to see whatline it wasmade for? tia ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Percentage re NS George,there you go again with that radical thinking!! ;^)Keep this up and we have to restrain you and up your dosages again! Shawn nobler wrote: N.S. is copper with zinc, nickel, tin, etc. ! Brass just doesn't havethenickel. or at least in such a high percentage. I have a couple of rods,madewith brass Super Z ferrules, that were made in the early 1960's, andtheyonly require more care against corrosion, but are plenty strong. Gee,and tothink they were less than $5/ per pair ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Danny Twang" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 5:20 PMSubject: Re: Percentage re NS Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but itmakesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny------- > > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA from tklein@amgen.com Thu Jul 13 18:23:16 2000 e6DNNFG04693 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Percentage re NS It sounds like most everyone is using 12 to 18 percent NS. Is anyone usingsomething outside this range? Does anybody happen to have the UNS alloynumbers for the material they're using? The reason I ask is because the NS alloy listing I have contains severalmaterials with 12 to 18 percent nickel, but there are different percentagesof lead and copper available (as a matter of fact, one of the links someone "leaded" alloys). I'm just now starting to play around with making my own hardware and I knowabsolutely **squat** about these things. I was hoping someone could clearthis up a little and tell me what I should be looking for.---Tim ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Percentage re NS It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "mike" Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 8:12 AMSubject: Percentage re NS Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to with regards to NS. Is this the%lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than with copper alloys.Thanks,Mike from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Jul 13 18:23:20 2000 e6DNNGG04698 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Subject: Sv: Percentage re NS e6DNNJG04699 some months ago I restored a rod from 1908 - brass ferruled.It was really Used, but the ferrules were OK. 12% or 18% ? well, the 12% is slightly yellowish whennot newly polished, otherwise no difference. So You just go ahead, make them ferrules out of brassor 12% or 18% NS, it will all do. regards,carsten from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Jul 13 18:24:18 2000 e6DNOIG04857 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. Rod Makers Importance: Normal While I'm a brusher, not a dipper, I would think that you should applyvarnish coats to the wraps before dipping. You shouldn't dip until the wrapsare sufficiently coated, as I would imagine that your rod varnish overallcould easily become too thick. My 2 cents... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. Darrell,Yup, judging by the number (and consensus) I think you identified theproblem. I actually wrapped by hand, using a large magnifying glass on astand,with a round light. I got a great view and could easily do it by hand...buthadlittle control over the tension which, not knowing better, I pulled prettytight. Apparently, too tight. I dipped again today and it's gettingbetter. Idon't want to do more than 3-4 coats to keep the weight down (it is a 4 wt,6'3"PHY midge). I'll keep the group posted, thanks for your suggestions, I willbuya jig, dws. "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Do you singe the wraps before color preserving? Singeing the wraps using an alcohol lamp, removes a lot/most of thefuzzies.. What kind of rod wrapping system do you use? If you are using a rod winder/jig that uses a thread tensioner thatusestwo discs and the thread goes inbetween the discs for the thread tension,these types of winders cause more frizzies... The old Thompson/Herters Winders put tension on the thread spool, notthethread... Golden Witch sells a repro model and I also have one extra thatI'm selling as well. These have also been used for hand binding your canerod blanks as well... Also, it's not too difficult to make a jig yourself and there are a fewcommercial jigs/stands that also do not put tension on the thread but onthespools. I doubt that it is the type of varnish you are using... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ph.D.Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 9:31 AM Subject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 13 18:29:57 2000 e6DNTuG05091 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:24:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Percentage re NS Hey, George... If ya have a hundred or so of those laying around at $5 a popstill, I'll be happy to take em off your hands! :^) Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Percentage re NS N.S. is copper with zinc, nickel, tin, etc. ! Brass just doesn't have thenickel. or at least in such a high percentage. I have a couple of rods, madewith brass Super Z ferrules, that were made in the early 1960's, and theyonly require more care against corrosion, but are plenty strong. Gee, and tothink they were less than $5/ per pair ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Percentage re NS Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but it makesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 13 19:32:26 2000 e6E0WQG06345 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Fri, 14 Jul 2000 00:32:21 +0000 Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. And here I thought I was the only one using popsicle stick sanders. Bobis right about being careful not to sand through the varnish. I make mysticks with 1000 grit. Regards, Steve Bob Nunley wrote: David,I use Pearsalls Gossamer and don't have any problems. I wrap before Ivarnish however. But usually I can seal the wraps with two thinned coatsofmy rod varnish then varnish the blank, and they lay down really nice. Ifyou're getting "fuzzies" then it is probably caused by your tensioningdevice. I have a stud, with springs and convex discs on either side of thespool and tension the spool not the thread. Gossamer is very fine andrunning it through a tensioner will cause it to fuzz up.Also, if you start getting a "build" on the wraps that is too high, oris uneven, then take a popsickle stick and some 600 wet and dry, and"dress"the varnish on the wraps until they are even and smooth. Be careful not tosand so much that you get through the varnish and into the silk... talkabout fuzzies!!!!, but if you're careful, you can sand the varnish on thewraps down, so your build is low and smooth and when you overvarnish theentire rod, your wraps will be very flat and smooth. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: David W. Smith, Ph.D. Date: Thursday, July 13, 2000 11:25 AMSubject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Jul 13 20:06:43 2000 e6E16gG06817 hme0.telusplanet.net(InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with SMTP Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:06:43 -0600 Subject: Re: High Wood River the group dealing with the water diversion/storage issue. catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Jul 13 20:42:38 2000 e6E1gbG07460 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. Rodmakers Importance: Normal yes, if you use rubbing alcohol instead of denatured alcohol, the flame willbe sooty. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- earsdws@duke.edu; RodmakersSubject: RE: varnishing wraps question. Seth, What have you been smoking in that lamp of yours? Unless you are overcooking it, silk isn't known to darken significantly on singing. However,what I suspect is either the fuel you are burning or the wick, is producingsome soot. Once when I used some laquer thinner as a substitute foralcohol, I could see a tell tale stream of soot come of the tip of theflame.I also got some darkening of the silk. You might hold a white chinadish over the flame for a few seconds and see if you get a dark deposit. Good luck, -Doug Easton At 02:41 PM 7/13/2000 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote:I have found that no matter how careful I am in singeing the wraps there isa slight darkening of color. Not much, considering what's going to happenwhen I varnish them, but still enough to be noticeable. Will this problemdisappear with experience after I've done a couple of hundred rods, or isthere some special technique that I'm missing? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 21:41:20 2000 e6E2f3G08348 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:42:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Percentage re NS Ah well, nothing ventured, nothing gained ! (grin) GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Percentage re NS George,there you go again with that radical thinking!! ;^)Keep this up and we have to restrain you and up your dosages again! Shawn nobler wrote: N.S. is copper with zinc, nickel, tin, etc. ! Brass just doesn't havethenickel. or at least in such a high percentage. I have a couple of rods,madewith brass Super Z ferrules, that were made in the early 1960's, andtheyonly require more care against corrosion, but are plenty strong. Gee,and tothink they were less than $5/ per pair ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Danny Twang" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 5:20 PMSubject: Re: Percentage re NS Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but itmakesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny------- > > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 21:45:54 2000 e6E2joG08500 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:46:54 -0500 ,"Rod Makers" Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. I've found it worth the extra time, to fill all wraps, and sand themcarefully, before the first coat of varnish goes on. I like the translucentlook of varnish filled wraps, but if you don't take a bit of care fillingthem, the final work looks less than exciting. I may spend several extradays, waiting for the varnish to cure, but it's worth it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: varnishing wraps question. While I'm a brusher, not a dipper, I would think that you should applyvarnish coats to the wraps before dipping. You shouldn't dip until thewrapsare sufficiently coated, as I would imagine that your rod varnish overallcould easily become too thick. My 2 cents... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 3:23 PM Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. Darrell,Yup, judging by the number (and consensus) I think you identified theproblem. I actually wrapped by hand, using a large magnifying glass on astand,with a round light. I got a great view and could easily do it byhand...buthadlittle control over the tension which, not knowing better, I pulled prettytight. Apparently, too tight. I dipped again today and it's gettingbetter. Idon't want to do more than 3-4 coats to keep the weight down (it is a 4wt,6'3"PHY midge). I'll keep the group posted, thanks for your suggestions, Iwillbuya jig, dws. "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Do you singe the wraps before color preserving? Singeing the wraps using an alcohol lamp, removes a lot/most of thefuzzies.. What kind of rod wrapping system do you use? If you are using a rod winder/jig that uses a thread tensioner thatusestwo discs and the thread goes inbetween the discs for the threadtension,these types of winders cause more frizzies... The old Thompson/Herters Winders put tension on the thread spool, notthethread... Golden Witch sells a repro model and I also have one extrathatI'm selling as well. These have also been used for hand binding yourcanerod blanks as well... Also, it's not too difficult to make a jig yourself and there are a fewcommercial jigs/stands that also do not put tension on the thread but onthespools. I doubt that it is the type of varnish you are using... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ph.D.Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 9:31 AM Subject: varnishing wraps question. How does one get the glassy build up of varnish (smooth wraps) onPearsall's gossamer? Mine look a little rough and "hairy"? UsingCaptain's Spar. When I lookat some of the photos from the makers who sell, theirs look like thewraps were covered much thicker than the rod. Any tips, thanks, dws. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 13 21:48:04 2000 e6E2m3G08735 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:47:59 +0000 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Percentage re NS Wait a minute!! Where was I when they were dispensing the recreationalpharmeceuticals??!! I love radicals... Especially when they're free! nobler wrote: Ah well, nothing ventured, nothing gained ! (grin) GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; "Rodmakers" Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 6:59 PMSubject: Re: Percentage re NS George,there you go again with that radical thinking!! ;^)Keep this up and we have to restrain you and up your dosages again! Shawn nobler wrote: N.S. is copper with zinc, nickel, tin, etc. ! Brass just doesn't havethenickel. or at least in such a high percentage. I have a couple of rods,madewith brass Super Z ferrules, that were made in the early 1960's, andtheyonly require more care against corrosion, but are plenty strong. Gee,and tothink they were less than $5/ per pair ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Danny Twang" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 5:20 PMSubject: Re: Percentage re NS Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but itmakesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny------- > > > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Jul 13 21:52:42 2000 e6E2qfG08923 VAA14730 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:52:43 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id VAA29077 for Subject: Re: True spar varnish Here in Milwaukee USA, I bought Epifanes spar at a boating chain store, "US Marine Center", for $15/liter. This was maybe 2 years ago. At the time it was about half the price of P&L spar. I don't think the stuff is that rare that you have to order it from Holland. Just check out places that servethe boating crowd.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 13 Jul 2000, nobler wrote: At $151 + for a little over an Imp. gallon (5000 ml) this is pretty highdollar varnish ! I don't think Benjamin Moore is nearly so high. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 22:01:09 2000 e6E317G09134 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:02:17 -0500 Subject: Re: True spar varnish Thanks Frank, the web site description makes me want to try it, but theprice there was like $50/ 2 - liters, or some such. I'll have to do somelooking, as we have no such store here. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: True spar varnish Here in Milwaukee USA, I bought Epifanes spar at a boatingchain store, "US Marine Center", for $15/liter. This wasmaybe 2 years ago. At the time it was about half the price ofP&L spar. I don't think the stuff is that rare that you haveto order it from Holland. Just check out places that servethe boating crowd.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 13 Jul 2000, nobler wrote: At $151 + for a little over an Imp. gallon (5000 ml) this is pretty highdollar varnish ! I don't think Benjamin Moore is nearly so high. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 13 22:03:35 2000 e6E33YG09271 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:04:55 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Percentage re NS Tim, I avoid the "leaded alloys". While they are free machining, good N.S.with no lead, is only slightly tougher to cut than brass. Brass cuts likebutter with a decent tool ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Percentage re NS It sounds like most everyone is using 12 to 18 percent NS. Is anyone usingsomething outside this range? Does anybody happen to have the UNS alloynumbers for the material they're using? The reason I ask is because the NS alloy listing I have contains severalmaterials with 12 to 18 percent nickel, but there are differentpercentagesof lead and copper available (as a matter of fact, one of the linkssomeonesent out recently as a nickel silver source, was selling one of these"leaded" alloys). I'm just now starting to play around with making my own hardware and Iknowabsolutely **squat** about these things. I was hoping someone could clearthis up a little and tell me what I should be looking for.---Tim ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Percentage re NS It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "mike" Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 8:12 AMSubject: Percentage re NS Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to with regards to NS. Is thisthe%lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than with copper alloys.Thanks,Mike from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Jul 14 01:53:31 2000 e6E6rUG11931 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:53:26 PDT Subject: Re: Percentage re NS From: Danny Twang Subject: Re: Percentage re NSDate: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 00:20:18 +0200 Interessting, I've allways heard 12% is to weak for ferrules, but it makesense, doubt nickel weakens the brass.... danny-------Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes good ferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA I made ferrules for the first twenty five or so rods I built in the middle eighties out of 12% bar stock. The problrm was not strength but that the material was too soft. On some of the rods the customer would not keep the ferrules clean and micro grit particles would embed itself into the mating surfaces making the fit sticky. If kept reasonably clean they worked fine. Also they would tarnish quickly and would not blue worth a damn. I have used the thick wall tubing from Dave LeClair and it worked great. Currently using some thin wall tubing from a purchase made with the very kind assistance of John Zimney that is wonderful. Al Bellingers ferrules are made with tubing from that run. Still making my own as I have a thing for Leonard style ferrules.A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Jul 14 01:59:47 2000 e6E6xlG12099 Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:59:43 PDT Subject: RE: Percentage re NS From: "Klein, Tim" Subject: RE: Percentage re NSDate: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:23:05 -0700 It sounds like most everyone is using 12 to 18 percent NS. Is anyone usingsomething outside this range? Does anybody happen to have the UNS alloynumbers for the material they're using? The reason I ask is because the NS alloy listing I have contains severalmaterials with 12 to 18 percent nickel, but there are different percentagesUsed to be able to get 21% but it was a son of a gun to machine, Nickel is a 'draggy' metal and tends to ball up unless properly lubricated and sharp lathe tools. Lower N percentages make it easier to use and if it is leaded it machines VERY easy.A.J.Thramerof lead and copper available (as a matter of fact, one of the links someonesent out recently as a nickel silver source, was selling one of these"leaded" alloys). I'm just now starting to play around with making my own hardware and Iknowabsolutely **squat** about these things. I was hoping someone could clearthis up a little and tell me what I should be looking for.---Tim ----------From: nobler[SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Percentage re NS It/s the nickel content. Most spec 18%, but pure brass makes goodferrules,so I'm making them from 12%, for now. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "mike" Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 8:12 AMSubject: Percentage re NS Gys,Could someone tell me what the % refers to with regards to NS. Is this the%lead for ease of machining, or what?I'm much more familiar with steel alloys than with copper alloys.Thanks,Mike ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from weakley.hollow@gte.net Fri Jul 14 07:27:43 2000 e6ECRhG15631 Subject: Re: True spar varnish i've been getting mine at west marine, which has a mail order service (trywestmarine.com). it's available in small cans (must be about a half liter).it does cost more than a bottle a good whiskey. glm At 09:52 PM 7/13/00 -0500, you wrote:Here in Milwaukee USA, I bought Epifanes spar at a boating chain store, "US Marine Center", for $15/liter. This was maybe 2 years ago. At the time it was about half the price of P&L spar. I don't think the stuff is that rare that you have to order it from Holland. Just check out places that servethe boating crowd. --------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.)"freedom is not free" from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 14 07:53:19 2000 e6ECrIG16546 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:54:47 -0500 Subject: Re: True spar varnish Thank you ! I just did a search, and we have a West Marine here ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: True spar varnish i've been getting mine at west marine, which has a mail order service (trywestmarine.com). it's available in small cans (must be about a halfliter).it does cost more than a bottle a good whiskey. glm At 09:52 PM 7/13/00 -0500, you wrote:Here in Milwaukee USA, I bought Epifanes spar at a boatingchain store, "US Marine Center", for $15/liter. This wasmaybe 2 years ago. At the time it was about half the price ofP&L spar. I don't think the stuff is that rare that you haveto order it from Holland. Just check out places that servethe boating crowd. --------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.)"freedom is not free" from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Jul 14 10:49:57 2000 e6EFnuG22215 Subject: Getting Stiffed Hello AllIt seems that a client of mine is stiffing me on a rod. The rod has been done for two weeks, I have talked to him and made plans to meet him to pick up the rod but he did not show and has not called. I did get my usual deposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell the rod and keep the deposit. 2. sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Wait and see what happens. The problem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a good part of my income and I need the money. Any advice would be great!T.I.AJoe from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jul 14 11:00:30 2000 e6EG0TG22722 09:00:27 PDT Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed joe, maybe you could call him again and see if he'sokay, maybe he's in a hospital or maybe he really didget lost. maybe he got the directions wrong andthought you were a no show. has this never reallyhappened to you before? timothy --- Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote:Hello AllIt seems that a client of mine isstiffing me on a rod. The rod has been done for two weeks, I have talked to himand made plans to meet him to pick up the rod but he did not show and has notcalled. I did get my usual deposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell the rodand keep the deposit. 2. sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Wait andsee what happens. The problem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a goodpart of my income and I need the money. Any advice would be great!T.I.AJoe ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Jul 14 11:14:21 2000 e6EGEJG23333 Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed Tim,No this has never happened before. It also seems that he owes money to a local fly shop for a pair of high end waders.If he got lost why no phone call?Joe from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 14 11:29:56 2000 e6EGTtG24089 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:24:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed Joe,First, call the guy, talk to him, make sure he understands the rod iscomplete and that he needs to pick it up immediately.Second, If you don't get a positive response from him within areasonable amount of time, notify him "in writing" that payment on thecompleted rod is past due, and that he has 30 days to pick up the rod or therod and the deposit will be forfiet. Be sure to send the letter, CertifiedMail, Return Reciept Required, that way, if he chooses to attempt to takeany legal action, you have proof that you sent the notification and the hewas properly apprised of the situation.One thing you need to be sure of, is that he was completely clear aboutthe deposit being a NON-REFUNDABLE deposit. I write that on the bottom ofmy order forms in large enough print that they can see it plainly.... rightabove where their signature goes. I'd have to dig out one of my forms, butI think it says something to the effect that if the rod isn't paid for infull, and received by the buyer within 60 days of completion, the rod, andall deposits made on the rod, are forfieted by the buyer.Good luck, and hang in there for awhile... maybe this guy just had aproblem of some sort that was beyond his control. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Getting Stiffed Hello AllIt seems that a client of mine is stiffing me on a rod. The rodhas been done for two weeks, I have talked to him and made plans to meethimto pick up the rod but he did not show and has not called. I did get myusualdeposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell the rod and keep the deposit.2.sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Wait and see what happens. Theproblem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a good part of my income and Ineed the money. Any advice would be great!T.I.AJoe from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jul 14 11:34:14 2000 e6EGYDG24370