09:33:50 PDT Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed bob, your method is flawless. you are a good man. timothy --- Bob Nunley wrote:Joe,First, call the guy, talk to him, make sure heunderstands the rod iscomplete and that he needs to pick it upimmediately.Second, If you don't get a positive response from him within areasonable amount of time, notify him "in writing"that payment on thecompleted rod is past due, and that he has 30 daysto pick up the rod or therod and the deposit will be forfiet. Be sure tosend the letter, CertifiedMail, Return Reciept Required, that way, if hechooses to attempt to takeany legal action, you have proof that you sent thenotification and the hewas properly apprised of the situation.One thing you need to be sure of, is that he wascompletely clear aboutthe deposit being a NON-REFUNDABLE deposit. I writethat on the bottom ofmy order forms in large enough print that they cansee it plainly.... rightabove where their signature goes. I'd have to digout one of my forms, butI think it says something to the effect that if therod isn't paid for infull, and received by the buyer within 60 days ofcompletion, the rod, andall deposits made on the rod, are forfieted by thebuyer.Good luck, and hang in there for awhile... maybethis guy just had aproblem of some sort that was beyond his control. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: Eastkoyfly@aol.com Date: Friday, July 14, 2000 10:45 AMSubject: Getting Stiffed Hello AllIt seems that a client of mine isstiffing me on a rod. The rodhas been done for two weeks, I have talked to himand made plans to meethimto pick up the rod but he did not show and has notcalled. I did get myusualdeposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell therod and keep the deposit.2.sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Waitand see what happens. Theproblem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a goodpart of my income and Ineed the money. Any advice would be great!T.I.AJoe ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 14 11:40:40 2000 e6EGedG24666 Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed In a message dated 7/14/00 8:50:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Eastkoyfly@aol.com writes: Joe, Did the fellow know about when the rod would be finished? How much warning did he have to get the money together? Could he be on vacation? It is that time of the year. I'd send him a final registered letter (with a followup email?) telling him that the rod is finished and if he doesn't respond by such-and-such date that you will sell it to the next person on your backlog list. But that you will hold his money as a deposit on a future rod. That can't sell the rod within 90 days and/or he doesn't respond that he is still interested in purchasing a rod from you with delivery within 180 days of such-in-such then he will forfeit his deposit. Then pray that he doesn't sue you for return of his deposit! Since you are running rodmaking as a business, then you need clearly to spell out exactly what happens to a deposit in these cases before/or when youtake and order. In fact, terms and conditions of sale should be included with all purchase orders written. You should keep a good set of all your business records, both for tax purposes and for legal reasons. Any profit you make can easily be eaten up in one lawsuit. Sign of the times, my friend! All IMHO, Don Burns from djk762@hotmail.com Fri Jul 14 12:03:24 2000 e6EH3NG25477 Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:03:19 PDT Subject: Witness Marks Rodmakers- I would appreciate any advice on applying witness marks to ferrules;or any strong opinions pro or con on their use. Thanks! David KashubaFair Oaks CA.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Jul 14 12:50:51 2000 e6EHonG27197 KAA11121; Subject: Re: Witness Marks Dave. Take a small nail or brad slightly smaller in diameter than the markyou want and dip it in enamel. apply to ferrule and wait. If the ferrule ismetal use a mechanical marking punch and set it very light.Ed Hartzell David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers- I would appreciate any advice on applying witness marks to ferrules;or any strong opinions pro or con on their use. Thanks! David KashubaFair Oaks CA. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jul 14 13:05:54 2000 e6EI5sG27788 Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:05:49 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Witness Marks Dave,IMHO the guides should be good enough to line up the fitting! Shawn Ed Hartzell wrote: Dave. Take a small nail or brad slightly smaller in diameter than the markyou want and dip it in enamel. apply to ferrule and wait. If the ferrule ismetal use a mechanical marking punch and set it very light.Ed Hartzell David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers- I would appreciate any advice on applying witness marks to ferrules;or any strong opinions pro or con on their use. Thanks! David KashubaFair Oaks CA. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com from mrmac@tcimet.net Fri Jul 14 14:05:49 2000 e6EJ5nG00124 (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.181) with ESMTP id Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:01:02 -0400 Subject: Wrap tightness? Hi again, all - I wondered what the conventional wisdom is on how tightly to do wraps.I have been doing them just about to the limit the silk can take, butlooking over a previous rod that I have fished a couple times, some ofthe interior edge wraps look a little delaminated, sorta, and I wonderedif maybe that was because I had them too tight and maybe a thread poppedin the rod's flexing, although at ths point it is difficult to reallytell exactly what has happened under the varnish without stripping theguide and wraps off. Should I ease up some on the tension, or is itbest to wrap as tightly as possible? Thanks for the help mac from oossg@vbe.com Fri Jul 14 14:16:20 2000 e6EJGIG00445 (envelope- from oossg@vbe.com) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Wrap tightness? Ralph,In my experience you can wrap too tight. Just enough tensition to hold inplace and not come unwrapped should be plenty. The varnish will also helpto hold guides in place. After replacing hundreds of guides on bamboo rods,I have found most were so tight they dented the surface of the cane.My first plastic rod broke at a guide and after closer examination, I foundI had wrapped the guide so tight in actually broke through the fiberglasswall!Scott Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Hi again, all - I wondered what the conventional wisdom is on how tightly to do wraps.I have been doing them just about to the limit the silk can take, butlooking over a previous rod that I have fished a couple times, some ofthe interior edge wraps look a little delaminated, sorta, and I wonderedif maybe that was because I had them too tight and maybe a thread poppedin the rod's flexing, although at ths point it is difficult to reallytell exactly what has happened under the varnish without stripping theguide and wraps off. Should I ease up some on the tension, or is itbest to wrap as tightly as possible? Thanks for the help mac from Oozakgpt@aol.com Fri Jul 14 15:24:34 2000 e6EKOYG02911 Subject: Suggestion for a lathe Interested in purchasing a lathe for rodbuilding.Anyone have any suggestions on where to start.?What are you all using on the list? from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Jul 14 15:58:06 2000 e6EKw6G04322 Subject: Fwd: Getting Stiffed boundary="part1_24.7bc7d37.26a0d8d1_boundary" --part1_24.7bc7d37.26a0d8d1_boundary I think Bob Maulucci meant for all to read this --part1_24.7bc7d37.26a0d8d1_boundary 0400 2000 15:52:30 -0400 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed boundary="=====================_8243379==_.ALT" --=====================_8243379==_.ALT Hi Joe and list:1. I would give him the 30 days from receipt of the letter (as per Bob N.) and then sell it off and keep the deposit.2. Any able listmember who collects or fishes rods would be smart to get in line if one of Joe's rods does become available. I have cast several and they are fantastic.Hope it works out for everyone.Best regards,Bob 11:49 AM 7/14/00 -0400, you wrote:Hello AllIt seems that a client of mine is stiffing me on a rod. The rodhas been done for two weeks, I have talked to him and made plans to meet himto pick up the rod but he did not show and has not called. I did get my usualdeposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell the rod and keep the deposit. 2.sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Wait and see what happens. Theproblem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a good part of my income and Ineed the money. Any advice would be great!T.I.AJoe Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com --=====================_8243379==_.ALT Hi Joe and list:1. I would give him the 30 days from receipt of the letter (as per BobN.) and then sell it off and keep the deposit. to get in line if one of Joe's rods does become available. I have castseveral and they are fantastic.Hope it works out for everyone.Best regards,Bob Hello All that a client of mine is stiffing me on a rod. The rod has been done for two weeks, I have talked to him and made plans to to pick up the rod but he did not show and has not called. I did get myusual deposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell the rod and keep thedeposit. 2. sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Wait and see what happens.The problem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a good part of my income and I need the money. Any advice would be great! T.I.A Joe Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_8243379==_.ALT-- --part1_24.7bc7d37.26a0d8d1_boundary-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 14 16:08:04 2000 e6EL83G04707 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:09:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed I would sent him a registered letter, stating when you must be paid, beforeyou sell it, and his deposit is forfeited. Be sure and keep a record. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Getting Stiffed Hello AllIt seems that a client of mine is stiffing me on a rod. The rodhas been done for two weeks, I have talked to him and made plans to meethimto pick up the rod but he did not show and has not called. I did get myusualdeposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell the rod and keep the deposit.2.sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Wait and see what happens. Theproblem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a good part of my income and Ineed the money. Any advice would be great!T.I.AJoe from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Jul 14 16:08:58 2000 e6EL8wG04824 Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed Thanks for all the advice on and off list A.J, Bob N., Don,Tim and Bob M.I think it will work out Thanks again Joe from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 14 16:17:40 2000 e6ELHdG05101 Subject: Re: Wrap tightness? In a message dated 7/14/00 12:06:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mrmac@tcimet.net writes: Mac, After messing around with many tensioning devices I found that a fly tying bobbin works best. Get one that will hold standard silk thread spools and maybe a second one for doing tipping/intermediates without the need tochange spools. You only need to use the weight of the spool plus bobbin to "tension" the thread and if left hanging below the rod section this method will allow you to have both hands free for other jobs or go answer the phone/call ofnature. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 14 16:20:32 2000 e6ELKVG05296 Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed In a message dated 7/14/00 2:09:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Eastkoyfly@aol.com writes: Joe, I hope it just turns out to be just a scheduling conflict. If not, maybe an eBay auction would generate quick cash? Don Burns from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 14 16:34:09 2000 e6ELY7G05806 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:32:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Wrap tightness? I'm no expert, but I've never felt the need to put maximum stress on thethread. Just a good snug wrap, so that you have little trouble pulling thewhip finish loop through. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wrap tightness? Hi again, all - I wondered what the conventional wisdom is on how tightly to do wraps.I have been doing them just about to the limit the silk can take, butlooking over a previous rod that I have fished a couple times, some ofthe interior edge wraps look a little delaminated, sorta, and I wonderedif maybe that was because I had them too tight and maybe a thread poppedin the rod's flexing, although at ths point it is difficult to reallytell exactly what has happened under the varnish without stripping theguide and wraps off. Should I ease up some on the tension, or is itbest to wrap as tightly as possible? Thanks for the help mac from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 14 16:49:16 2000 e6ELnFG06235 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:50:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Suggestion for a lathe It all depends on what you want to do. If you want to make ferrules, and thelike, then buy a decent 10". Look for used South Bend, Atlas, Clausing,etc., as there are some super buys. If only for cork grip, and ferruleseating cuts on the cane, then a smaller size will do nicely. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Suggestion for a lathe Interested in purchasing a lathe for rodbuilding.Anyone have anysuggestionson where to start.?What are you all using on the list? from jim@seahorses.com Fri Jul 14 17:12:26 2000 e6EMCPG06819 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Is anyone in the Plaverville, CA area? Importance: Normal Hi If possible I would like to talk to someone in my area. I have always wantedto build a Bamboo Rod and have enjoyed reading the lists very much, But Ineed to see something before it sinks in. Could someone be of help? Thanks Jim ForsheyAquatic Book ShopP.O. Box 2150Shingle Springs, CA 95682- 2150USA www.Seahorses.com Phone (530)622-7547 (Evenings and weekends), FAX (530)622-7157Wanted Aquarium and Ichthyology (Fish) Books, Magazines and Videos (inany Language)'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,..˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jul 14 17:29:15 2000 e6EMTEG07179 (204.186.211.12) Organization: ProLog Subject: Granger uplocking seat Hi All, I was out casting a Granger of mine and lost the screw capportion of their uplocking seat. I know it is not supposed to screw allthe way out but this one did and I have seen others do also. If someonehas a seat they would sell me it would be appreciated. The seat need notbe in good condition as long as the screw cap portion is not toobuggered. Maybe someone has a broken butt section holding some Tomatoesup out in the garden. Contact me off list. Thanks, Marty from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Jul 14 18:33:33 2000 e6ENXXG08188 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Is anyone in the Plaverville, CA area? Importance: Normal Well, you might want to check out the upcoming Bishop RodMakers GatheringOctober 13-15th. Here's the link... http://www.vfish.net/gwbishop.htm Be sure to subscribe to the info newsletter, this way you will be notifiedof what's happening and any last minute changes. Tenatively we have Ray Gould, author of "Construction Cane Rods" who will beour "keynote" speaker. We will have demos on some bevelers and otherequipment. It will be held at Chuck Irvine's home/workshop in Bishop, CA soyou can see a real operating rod shop. His shop is the envy of all who visited last year. While the gathering is not around the corner, the next closest gathering isabout an extra 700 miles away or more. Regards, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Is anyone in the Plaverville, CA area? Hi If possible I would like to talk to someone in my area. I have always wantedto build a Bamboo Rod and have enjoyed reading the lists very much, But Ineed to see something before it sinks in. Could someone be of help? Thanks Jim ForsheyAquatic Book ShopP.O. Box 2150Shingle Springs, CA 95682- 2150USA www.Seahorses.com Phone (530)622-7547 (Evenings and weekends), FAX (530)622-7157Wanted Aquarium and Ichthyology (Fish) Books, Magazines and Videos (inany Language)'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,..˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 14 18:34:12 2000 e6ENYBG08287 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Suggestion for a lathe Sherline with the longer bed. Works fine, but a used big lathe would be better.Bob At 04:24 PM 7/14/00 -0400, you wrote:Interested in purchasing a lathe for rodbuilding.Anyone have anysuggestionson where to start.?What are you all using on the list? Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 14 19:00:04 2000 e6F003G08772 Subject: Re: Is anyone in the Plaverville, CA area? In a message dated 7/14/00 3:12:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jim@seahorses.com writes: Jim, I believe Jerry Foster is somewhere in your area. Hope to see you in Bishop later this year. Don Burns from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 14 19:33:10 2000 e6F0X9G09210 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: ferrule making Hi list:Two quickies.1. Does anyone have instructions on how to make ferrules from bar stock? Is this method preferable, since I have no soldering abilities whatsoever.2. Can this be done with a Sherline lathe, or is it not accurate enough?Sorry if this has been covered before, but I could not find instructions in the archives.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jul 14 20:19:21 2000 e6F1JLG09741 Subject: Re: ferrule making In a message dated 07/14/2000 8:41:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Hi Bob,Back a while ago, someone had a write upabout making ferrules from bar stock in the Planing Form. If youcan't find it, let me know, I've probably got it here some were. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jul 14 20:21:44 2000 e6F1LiG09853 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Hardy CC de France All,a while back someone on here had posted the taper for a CC deFrance (think it might have been you Danny??) and someone else posted aweb page with pictures of an original?? Hardy CC de FRance showingdetails of the wraps and reel seat. I book marked it but cannot seem tofind the bookmark now.A friend is redoing a CC and I said I knew where there were somepictures but do you think I can find that site now??Can someone help me out?TIA,Shawn from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 14 20:29:34 2000 e6F1TYG10084 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: ferrule making Hi Dave:I would really appreciate it if you do have it. am definitely putting them on the two rods I am making now.Thanks,Bob At 09:18 PM 7/14/00 -0400, you wrote:In a message dated 07/14/2000 8:41:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: Hi list:Two quickies.1. Does anyone have instructions on how to make ferrules from barstock? Isthis method preferable, since I have no soldering abilities whatsoever.2. Can this be done with a Sherline lathe, or is it not accurate enough?Sorry if this has been covered before, but I could not find instructions inthe archives.Thanks,Bob Maulucci >> Hi Bob,Back a while ago, someone had a writeupabout making ferrules from bar stock in the Planing Form. If youcan't find it, let me know, I've probably got it here some were. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 14 20:32:35 2000 e6F1WZG10220 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:31:35 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrule making I've never worked on a Sherline, but I would think it work be slow going, tomachine them from solid. With a 10", you can make some serious roughingcuts. No reason you couldn't make them accurate though. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: ferrule making Hi list:Two quickies.1. Does anyone have instructions on how to make ferrules from bar stock?Isthis method preferable, since I have no soldering abilities whatsoever.2. Can this be done with a Sherline lathe, or is it not accurate enough?Sorry if this has been covered before, but I could not find instructionsinthe archives.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jul 14 20:51:42 2000 e6F1pfG10749 Subject: Re: Hardy CC de France Shawn I saw the specs on the CC de France just a couple of days ago. I can'tremember how I got there, but it is the Sheringham Society web page.http://www.interalpha.net/customer/sheringham/page2.html I hadthat bookmarked, but the book mark brings up the wrong web site. It isthe Sheringham site, but an older edition. I am positive of myfacts, because I had just handled a CC de France 7' rod. Sorry couldn'tget the specs, but I might be able to, because I know the guy who boughtit.Ralph from martinj@aa.net Fri Jul 14 21:30:05 2000 e6F2U4G11201 Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:30:02 -0700 Subject: RE: Getting Stiffed Importance: Normal Kind of a difficult call. When you got the deposit was it clear that it wasa "non refundable deposit"? He might have a valid argument that the depositwas for a rod delivered regardless of the fact that he never picked it up..It might depend on how much trouble he wants to cause. You could always saythat he can't get the deposit back and see how he takes it. Unless you wantto get in a fight on principle the worst that would happen is that after hejumps through a few hoops you end up giving it back. I would have no qualmsabout selling the rod to someone else though even though two weeks soundslike kind of a narrow window for picking it up (to me). If he wants to waitagain for another rod than that would be his choice. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Eastkoyfly@aol.com Subject: Getting Stiffed Hello AllIt seems that a client of mine is stiffing me on a rod. The rodhas been done for two weeks, I have talked to him and made plans to meethimto pick up the rod but he did not show and has not called. I did get myusualdeposit on the rod. My ? is 1. Should I sell the rod and keep the deposit.2.sell the rod and give the deposit back. 3 . Wait and see what happens. Theproblem with #3 is that I use rodmaking as a good part of my income and Ineed the money. Any advice would be great!T.I.AJoe from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jul 14 21:47:48 2000 e6F2llG11525 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re Hardy cc de FRance boundary="------------A708A17FD5B67DE6946554DC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A708A17FD5B67DE6946554DC Thanks all,Found it! In case anyone else is interested!Shawnhttp://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane- rods/page6.html --------------A708A17FD5B67DE6946554DC name="page6.html" filename="page6.html"Content-Base: "http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods/page6.html"Content- Location: "http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods/page6.html" Page Title The H=ardy C.C.de France ( this rod made in 1950) There wa=s a great deal of interest shown in this classic and fairly rare Hardy's =rod, when I first mentioned it in Rodmakers group mailings. To help those=who are reproducing the 8'0" version, I list the measurements taken from=my own rod, and photographs of the handle work. The handle was the same = own rod's original - a sort of non-descript green. I have seen others in=bright red, and others in colour-preserved yellow (which looked horrible=). Guide=spacing.0"4="9"16"26"37"51"67&q=uot; agate stripping guide.I would suggest that an additional gui=de or two might be beneficial.Original guides are bronzed cradle ring=s (we call them full open bridge). They were quite small, and more suitab=le for silk lines. I'm replacing with Hopkins and Holloway bronzed sn=akes, sizes 1 and 2, and re-installing the original real agate stripper. =Legend reads: Above winding check wrap: Palakona Regd. TradeMark=Above first intermediate: The "C.C.de France"Thebamboo=is medium brown, and the node pattern the normal Hardy's 3 and 3pat=tern.My rod is numbered E74301 and this makes it a 1950rod.The C.C.de France was made from 1911 to 1961, and in both7'0"=; and 8' lengths. Cane =measurements0" -= .14920&quo=t; .16725" .17930" .18835".20040" .2=1045" .22046" .22746" - 50" ferruleand w=raps50" .23755" .24560" .26265".27070" .29375" .30580" .30885".320"=Overall rod length, less tip top 95=BD"Handlelength&nbs= with lightweight sliding D/L reel band to standard Hardy's screwed-o=n aluminium socket, and decorated and engraved butt cap.Ferrule - Har=dy's own nickel silver. Male size .230"Weight, with guid=es, but without varnish, is just under 4 oz. Photographs of the rod Return to home page --------------A708A17FD5B67DE6946554DC-- from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jul 14 23:03:33 2000 e6F43WG12766 Subject: Re: Granger John,I recently refinished one just like it. It casts a DT5 perfectly and theowner loves to fish with it. I would recommend the same for you. If it is inas good shape as you say, it may be worth $500 or more.Steve I have just aquired a 7 1/2 ft Wright McGill "Granger Special" It feelslikeit should be for #4 or #5 line. The condition other than some minoroxidationon the reel seat is superb. I would really like to somehow establish aballpark idea of its value to determine a course of action regarding what todowith it, ie, make it a wall hanger, refinish, (it doesn't appear to needitat all), or fish it. I can't find any serial or model #s. It does have apatent # and is dated 1938. There are 3 pieces of equal length and anextratip section. The bag appears to be canvas and the tube is alluminium Ithink.If anyone can help me with this I would be very appreciative. Thanks, JohnKesterson from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Jul 15 05:46:17 2000 e6FAkFG17093 Subject: Rod repair- fungus stains and open joints boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFEE28.5E4D73E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFEE28.5E4D73E0 Got a question for everyone. A friend has a rod where there is =apparently a small opening at one of the joints. At this open area is a =blackish 'stain'. He asked me what caused it, and how to fix it, ie get =rid of the dark staining on his blond rod.I mentioned that I thought the staining may be due to fungus having =gotten in the opening at the joint, but that I wasn't sure, and likewise =I have no idea how to fix the problem. The split at the joint seems to =be restricted to an area of about 1/2 inch along the joint itself, maybe =insufficient amount of glue? The split does not seem to extend beyond =this 1/2 length.Guys, any help for my buddy would be REALLY appreciated by both of us!!Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFEE28.5E4D73E0 Got a question for everyone. A friend = where there is apparently a small opening at one of the joints. At this = area is a blackish 'stain'. He asked me what caused it, and how to fix = get rid of the dark staining on his blond rod.I mentioned that I thought the staining= to fungus having gotten in the opening at the joint, but that I wasn't = likewise I have no idea how to fix the problem. The split at the joint = be restricted to an area of about 1/2 inch along the joint itself, maybe = insufficient amount of glue? The split does not seem to extend beyond = length.Guys, any help for my buddy would be = appreciated by both of us!!Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BFEE28.5E4D73E0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jul 15 08:34:40 2000 e6FDYdG19975 (204.186.33.86) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Rod repair- fungus stains and open joints Hi Mike, I am pretty sure the stain is caused by fungus. If the rod wasmine I would mix a solution of half bleach nd half water. Wash the arearepeatedly with the solution , rinse with water, allow to dry thoroughly( a few days). Shove glue into the joint with a slip of paper. Put aspool of strong thread into a vise and under strong pressure bind overthe open seam.Allow to dry , remove thread , scrape glue residuecarfully, touch up varnish as needed. This may not remove all of thedark stain as it could have penetrated the fibers . Marty Got a question for everyone. A friend has a rod where there isapparently a small opening at one of the joints. At this open area isa blackish 'stain'. He asked me what caused it, and how to fix it, ieget rid of the dark staining on his blond rod.I mentioned that I thought the staining may be due to fungus havinggotten in the opening at the joint, but that I wasn't sure, andlikewise I have no idea how to fix the problem. The split at the jointseems to be restricted to an area of about 1/2 inch along the jointitself, maybe insufficient amount of glue? The split does not seem toextend beyond this 1/2 length.Guys, any help for my buddy would be REALLY appreciated by both ofus!!Thanks, Mike from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 15 09:01:46 2000 e6FE1iG20376 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 15 Jul 2000 09:00:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod repair- fungus stains and open joints If it is truly an opening, without glue, it certainly could be fungus.Bleach should kill this. Since you say it's blonde, I doubt it's Resorcinolglue. Most any of the good glues, should allow tight binding over the area,with plenty of drying time allowed. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod repair- fungus stains and open joints Got a question for everyone. A friend has a rod where there is apparently asmall opening at one of the joints. At this open area is a blackish 'stain'.He asked me what caused it, and how to fix it, ie get rid of the darkstaining on his blond rod.I mentioned that I thought the staining may be due to fungus having gottenin the opening at the joint, but that I wasn't sure, and likewise I have no to an area of about 1/2 inch along the joint itself, maybe insufficientamount of glue? The split does not seem to extend beyond this 1/2 length.Guys, any help for my buddy would be REALLY appreciated by both of us!!Thanks, Mike from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jul 15 10:25:00 2000 e6FFOxG21160 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Pezon and Micheal Does anyone out there know what was the lightest line Parabolic thatPezon And Micheal made?? Where can I find the taper?? I would beinterested in any thing that anyone could tell me about any of theirrods as well.TIA, Shawn from Bamboomaker@aol.com Sat Jul 15 10:40:02 2000 e6FFe1G21662 Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Shawn, I recently studied two parabolics side-by-side. The first rod was the Pezon 7'7" super parabolic progressive PPP for line size 5/6. This rod was built with a two piece staggered ferrule design. I compared it to a payne 7'9" parabolic in the heavier version (4oz - 6wt). This rod was a 2 piece unstaggered ferrule. Although the Payne was a beautiful rod, I must admit that I really enjoyed casting this pezon more. I might have sent out the taper the last time we talked on rodmakers about staggered ferrules, but if your interested, I'll dig it up and post it again. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jul 15 11:06:49 2000 e6FG6nG22129 Subject: Re: Hardy CC de France Organization: GOULD Hi Shawn,I have a Hardy CC de France 8ft x 2pc x 5wt rod made in 1939. If this iswhat you're looking for I'd be glad to post the taper for it.Ray Gould---- - Original Message ----- Subject: Hardy CC de France All,a while back someone on here had posted the taper for a CC deFrance (think it might have been you Danny??) and someone else posted aweb page with pictures of an original?? Hardy CC de FRance showingdetails of the wraps and reel seat. I book marked it but cannot seem tofind the bookmark now.A friend is redoing a CC and I said I knew where there were somepictures but do you think I can find that site now??Can someone help me out?TIA,Shawn from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jul 15 11:09:40 2000 e6FG9cG22269 Subject: Re: Rod repair- fungus stains and open joints Organization: GOULD boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007D_01BFEE3C.56E28F00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01BFEE3C.56E28F00 Hi Mike,You might recommend that oxalic acid be tried to remove the stain, then =do an invisible wrap over the spot.Ray Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 3:46 AMSubject: Rod repair- fungus stains and open joints Got a question for everyone. A friend has a rod where there is =apparently a small opening at one of the joints. At this open area is a =blackish 'stain'. He asked me what caused it, and how to fix it, ie get =rid of the dark staining on his blond rod.I mentioned that I thought the staining may be due to fungus having =gotten in the opening at the joint, but that I wasn't sure, and likewise =I have no idea how to fix the problem. The split at the joint seems to =be restricted to an area of about 1/2 inch along the joint itself, maybe =insufficient amount of glue? The split does not seem to extend beyond =this 1/2 length.Guys, any help for my buddy would be REALLY appreciated by both of =us!!Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01BFEE3C.56E28F00 Hi Mike,You might recommend that oxalic acidbe = remove the stain, then do an invisible wrap over the spot.Ray ----- Original Message ----- shaffer Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 = AMSubject: Rod repair- fungus = open joints Got a question for everyone. A friend= where there is apparently a small opening at one of the joints. At = area is a blackish 'stain'. He asked me what caused it, and how to fix = get rid of the dark staining on his blond rod.I mentioned that I thought the = due to fungus having gotten in the opening at the joint, but that I = sure, and likewise I have no idea how to fix the problem. The split at = joint seems to be restricted to an area of about 1/2 inch along the = itself, maybe insufficient amount of glue? The split does not seem to = beyond this 1/2 length.Guys, any help for my buddy would be= appreciated by both of us!!Thanks, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01BFEE3C.56E28F00-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jul 15 11:12:00 2000 e6FGBxG22432 (204.186.33.130) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Hi Shawn, I have a Pezon et Michel 6' Midget PPP for #4 line. Tip andbutt are equal length. PPP I think stands for Progressive PendulatePower. I guess this rod can be considered Parabolic as much as a 6'ercould be. Other than this rod the lightest is a 6'-10" Para Royale for#5, 7'2" Para PPP for #5. Marty Does anyone out there know what was the lightest line Parabolic thatPezon And Micheal made?? Where can I find the taper?? I would beinterested in any thing that anyone could tell me about any of theirrods as well.TIA, Shawn from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jul 15 11:20:15 2000 e6FGKEG22770 Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Organization: GOULD Hi Shawn,I'm currently working on a Pezon Michel "Neroo 2" 252/760 gr two piece rod.I have recorded the taper if you want it.Ray----- Original Message -- --- Subject: Pezon and Micheal Does anyone out there know what was the lightest line Parabolic thatPezon And Micheal made?? Where can I find the taper?? I would beinterested in any thing that anyone could tell me about any of theirrods as well.TIA, Shawn from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Jul 15 11:32:43 2000 e6FGWgG23046 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:32:42 +0100 Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Shawn,Pezon et Michel rods are still being produced !!!!The UK agent is Traditional Angling at www.traditional-angling.co.uk.I was fortunate enough to handle several of their demo units at thisyears Chatsworth Country Fair.......mmmmmm, nice........must startsaving my money..........regards........Paul marty wrote: Hi Shawn, I have a Pezon et Michel 6' Midget PPP for #4 line. Tip andbutt are equal length. PPP I think stands for Progressive PendulatePower. I guess this rod can be considered Parabolic as much as a 6'ercould be. Other than this rod the lightest is a 6'-10" Para Royale for#5, 7'2" Para PPP for #5. Marty Does anyone out there know what was the lightest line Parabolic thatPezon And Micheal made?? Where can I find the taper?? I would beinterested in any thing that anyone could tell me about any of theirrods as well.TIA, Shawn from chase_phil@webtv.net Sat Jul 15 11:46:23 2000 e6FGkNG23359 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA23259; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 09:46:23 - ETAsAhQRDfCQFgst0Wg8Z7Rh2uOzsTTK+gIUaayfjz1+n24toVmqdzJplMHYr24= Subject: guide wrapping This is my first correspondence to a great system of rod knowledgesharing. I refinished my first bamboo rod as a kid in the late 40s,today I have a dozen bamboos but have never built one. However I justhelped glue up a rod for a 78 year friend who is now on his second thissummer (his first attempts) so when he gets the bugs out---- Although I made a nice "jig" to spin the blanks on -with a foot petalsewing machine motor- I still would rather turn the rod under my arm anduse a fly tying bobbin hooked in a fly tying vise drill wind the silk onto the proper size spool for the bobbin. I don'tthread the tube but run the thread directly from the spool to the rod.Soap on the spool makes for smooth delivery but you have to bend thearms for enough tension--- no fuzzyness.Leonard Rod Co used shellac as a color preserve. The advantage was veryfast drying between coats and compatible with their Valspar 10 varnish(is it available?). The disadvantage is one too many coats and it doesnot dry for days also the shelf life was short but this has beenimproved.A friend claimed he watched Jim Payne brush varnish a rod and that thevarnish was put on heavy and worked down.This was in the early 60s, Itried it and had runs as expected so I figured the rod had to be kept inmotion and made a spinner (cpl RPM)which worked great but too muchvarnish could also wrinkle(I visited the Leonard refinishing room in theearly 70s? and they were using one that could hold half a dozen piecesat once).I also found that specks and "dust" came from old varnishinside the brush and was difficult to eliminate so lots of soap andwater in cleaning.Now and then the varnish would "pull" and not flow-- Isolved that by dipping the dry brush into turp and flipping it offbefore varnishing. Phil from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 15 12:46:10 2000 e6FHk8G24218 Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:45:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rod Friends,I've been out of pocket for a few weeks in Alaska (pictures later). Forseveral years I've been a big fan of the TT lines. But I've discovered one Ilike at least as well. Airflo makes what they call a Delta Taper fly line. Afriend sent me one to try out, and I've really put it through the paces thelastfew weeks. It casts very much like the TT lines, but perhaps shoots a littleeasier. It floats higher than any fly line I've ever used, so it picks upeasily, and mends readily. I would highly recommed it to anyone who likes theTT lines and is looking to replace some of them. Harry Robert Clarke wrote: The Wulff long belly lines are also quite nice. I think they are a littlecheaper than the TT. I do really like the TT lines-almost as much as mysilk :) Rob Clarke From: marty CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Wulff TT was Dawn Holbrook rodDate: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:00:35 -0400 I think the TT line has a head that has a continuous taper for thefirst 30' or so. A WF line tapers in the first 10' and than levels outto 30' or so . Dennis , you sure you didn't pick up that FrenchtownDeleware River scum on the SA lines? Or maybe a Coney Island white eel?Marty I thought the Triangel taper line from Wulff was a WF line with a veryshort head (terms??) more like a modern shooting line for ultra fastplastic rods, in other words very different from DT lines......I have the silkline/old taper post a couple a weeks ago on my mind....(terms again???) danny ------- > > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:50 -0400 Cc: "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod Dennis,I have the Wulff TT in 2/3, 3/4, and 4/5 and I have been highlyimpressed with all them. As far as their "club" size (lol) lines Idon't knowhow they perform, but I have heard nothing but good about the wholeproductline. Shawn "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterdayevening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than twoScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper linethat Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS orsomethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that Itriedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "tooheavy") the lineout of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every castproduced atailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made bothSA lineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well astheWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff linesthatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have foundtheright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are theytypicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow.Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on therod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 15 12:46:17 2000 e6FHkGG24242 Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:46:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Justin Charles Bob, Tony,I know this is a little late, but thought you might beinterested in knowing that Judy knows her stuff. She tiessome of the most beautiful Atlantic Salmon flies anyone eversaw. She's a Texas gal, and comes to most of the FFF Mtn.Home, Arkansas conclaves. Harry Tony Young wrote: I'd put Judy on my Christmas card list! Tony "Bamboo rods are considered to be the finest form ofthe rod maker's art. Because building a bamboo rod isvery time consuming, they are quite expensive and probablynot the first rod you will want to consider. Bamboo rodsare usually more flexible than graphite and therefore havea slower action. However, for some types of fishing,where a delicate presentation is necessary, bamboo cannotbe beaten. Many experienced fly fishers feel the pinnacleof the sport is catching a nice spring creek trout on asmall dry fly with a bamboo rod." Excerpt from FFF's Booklet "Introduction to FlyFishing" by Judy Lehmberg Thanks, Judy, wherever you are... we LOVE to read stufflike that! *S* Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Randy Brewer Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:45 PMSubject: Justin Charles I just received my FFF Flyfisher magazine today andfound an advertisementon the back cover for "Justin Charles TMResin-impregnated split-bamboo flyrods" from Sparta, Wisconsin. The wrappings looksomewhat like a productionrod, and dealer inquiries are invited. Anyone haveinformation about thiscompany? No website information was provided and Ididn't find anything witha quick search. It seems as if someone else is takingthe production rodplunge. Comments? Randy Brewerrandy@brewerbamboorods.comhttp://www.brewerbamboorods.com "Helping to conserve precious graphite for stealthaircraft!" /*************************************************************************/AVYoungVisit my web siteat:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html"Do, or do not.There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') *************************************************************************/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Jul 15 15:38:42 2000 e6FKcfG26374 Subject: Dates for SRG? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BFEE7B.21588260" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BFEE7B.21588260 Guys,Could someone let me know when the SRG will be in October?I want to go again this year--if you don't mind a little comic relief!! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BFEE7B.21588260 Guys,Could someone let me know when theSRG = October?I want to go again this year--if you = little comic relief!! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BFEE7B.21588260-- from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jul 15 15:44:28 2000 e6FKiSG26547 Subject: Re: Suggestion for a lathe Look at the possibility of a Taig. Check outwww.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.html I think. The Taig web site iswww.taigtools.com No affiliation, and all that rot. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Suggestion for a lathe Interested in purchasing a lathe for rodbuilding.Anyone have anysuggestionson where to start.?What are you all using on the list? from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 15 15:54:00 2000 e6FKrqG26727 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 15 Jul 2000 15:55:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Well, the PHY Midge is only 6'-3", and a 4/5 wt., but didn't Orvis have aSuperfine at a 3 wt. ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Hi Shawn, I have a Pezon et Michel 6' Midget PPP for #4 line. Tip andbutt are equal length. PPP I think stands for Progressive PendulatePower. I guess this rod can be considered Parabolic as much as a 6'ercould be. Other than this rod the lightest is a 6'-10" Para Royale for#5, 7'2" Para PPP for #5. Marty Does anyone out there know what was the lightest line Parabolic thatPezon And Micheal made?? Where can I find the taper?? I would beinterested in any thing that anyone could tell me about any of theirrods as well.TIA, Shawn from Turbotrk@aol.com Sat Jul 15 18:45:44 2000 e6FNjhG28354 Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. David, I stumbled on the barrel technique when totmbo came in and yelled at me. You use a rod turner to put the varnish on the wraps. You use un- thinned varnish with a mink artist brush with a very small point. Put on many coats almost to the point it drips. You then let it turn the drip until dry. I makes your wraps look excellent. I hope no-one has to kill me for giving away this long time secret. stuart miller from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 15 19:04:13 2000 e6G04BG28656 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 15 Jul 2000 19:05:29 -0500 Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. I guess all have "their" way. I prefer lots of thin coats, with drying inbetween, as one heavy coat can wrinkle easily. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. David, I stumbled on the barrel technique when totmbo came in and yelledatme. You use a rod turner to put the varnish on the wraps. You useun-thinned varnish with a mink artist brush with a very small point. Putonmany coats almost to the point it drips. You then let it turn the dripuntildry. I makes your wraps look excellent. I hope no-one has to kill me forgiving away this long time secret. stuart miller from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Jul 16 03:29:46 2000 e6G8TiG03529 Subject: off topic- rugby Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFEF52.E02C0040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFEF52.E02C0040 Just thought I'd warn you that anything said at this time by Ian Kearney =on the subject of Rugby ought be treated as the ravings of a demented =mind!(Congratulations, NZ. Good game!)Damn!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFEF52.E02C0040 Just thought I'd warn you that anything= this time by Ian Kearney on the subject of Rugby ought be treated as the = of a demented mind!(Congratulations, NZ. Good =game!)Damn!Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFEF52.E02C0040-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 16 04:35:08 2000 e6G9Z7G04290 (204.186.33.18) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Hi Art, Give me a day or two and I will mike and post it. I thought therod had a tip and butt equal length but I just looked at it and it hasan offset ferrule with a long ferrule plug. Marty Hi Marty,Any chance of getting that baby posted to the list? Sounds like a fun"leetle feller" for Eastern fishing!Thanks,Art At 12:06 PM 07/15/2000 -0400, you wrote:Hi Shawn, I have a Pezon et Michel 6' Midget PPP for #4 line. Tip andbutt are equal length. PPP I think stands for Progressive PendulatePower. I guess this rod can be considered Parabolic as much as a 6'ercould be. Other than this rod the lightest is a 6'- 10" Para Royale for#5, 7'2" Para PPP for #5. Marty Does anyone out there know what was the lightest line Parabolic thatPezon And Micheal made?? Where can I find the taper?? I would beinterested in any thing that anyone could tell me about any of theirrods as well.TIA, Shawn from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Jul 16 07:38:36 2000 e6GCcaG05671 Subject: ferrules Hey did any of you see this ? I think I remember it being a good topic. It looks very interesting no? Take a look.http://www.fries-rods.dk/bfrods.htmJoe from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jul 16 09:13:08 2000 e6GED7G07235 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A414184600FC; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 10:17:56 -0400 Subject: Wise Rodbuilding article The Rodbuilding article from the Wise FIshermen's Encyclopedia, with allillustrations, is now on my website under "Extracts".Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from chase_phil@webtv.net Sun Jul 16 09:49:26 2000 e6GEnQG07649 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA11882; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 07:49:27 - ETAtAhQErtSA2eS/endNC+h+FH9TIQS8GgIVAMRt0f5iTjG81oePKhOPD2p1kGxq Subject: reelseat finish Ralph;You were asking about a possible finish for a reelseat- I make knives asa hobby and just got the Sept 2000 issue of BLADE magazine.A 3 pagearticle on the use of super glue (including warnings of use) for a woodfinish that looked spectacular and described as"high-gloss durablegrip".A few points:-the glue likes non-porous materials-SG will stay fluid for hours on wax paper-the author,Bill Herndon, uses it as a sealer such as with (legal) ivoryto prevent warping-by applying it with a wire- pinhole openings can be filled-epoxy does not polish after drying SG does-SG demands a multiple coat finish-all multiple-coated finishes of all types- plastic,fiberglass,lacquer,etc.-must be allowed to dry-SG when applied in more than 6-8 coats needs to dry 5-10 days-longer not dry-SG will not stick to all woods--it may be used as a grain filler on heavy, oily woods-clean the wood with acetone to remove any finger oils- rubber gloves can NOT be used but throwaway plastic gloves areexcellent ($15/100 pairs) -work in a well ventilated area-use a small puddle of SG on the wax paper-use the tip of one finger of the plastic glue @ a time-dip and spreadon the wood-work fast-the glue will dry quickly with the early coats-do 3-5 coats per application to start-avoid runs-allow to dry for anhour or so and repeat-3-5 of the applications/ day is max-repeat until you get a good, deep finish-20-30 coats total-let wood dry for 5-10 days-do NOT sand between coats-an accelerator may= a frost and wrinkles-when cured carefully sand down the bumps and runs (320 or so grit) then4/0 steel wool- use a slow buffer with a loose, soft, unstitched wheel with white(rouge) plastic buffing cpd and VERY lightly buff the author also usesin the last buff Semichrome, Flitz, etc on a loose wheel-too much buff and removes the finish- if surface is dull buffing toofast- if pinholes the finish is not dry-he uses a neutral shoe wax to finish like to try it. I don't have any answers to questions as haven't triedit.Phil (on the Neversink River) from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 16 10:19:13 2000 e6GFJBG08045 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 16 Jul 2000 10:18:24 -0500 Subject: Re: reelseat finish The world of super glues, is vast and wide ! The better types are in themodel airplane world, some having a shelf life of 2 years ! All I have seen,or tried, are not resistant to methanol's, MEK.'s and the like, and in factwill curdle if some keytone bases are put over them. Prices in hobby shopsrun around $3.99, for a full 1 oz. bottle, and there are some that have nodangerous fumes, at about double the price ! The best I have found comes from Sig Mfg., that is right across the street from Brownells', in Montezuma, Iowa ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: reelseat finish Ralph;You were asking about a possible finish for a reelseat- I make knives asa hobby and just got the Sept 2000 issue of BLADE magazine.A 3 pagearticle on the use of super glue (including warnings of use) for a woodfinish that looked spectacular and described as"high-gloss durablegrip".A few points:-the glue likes non-porous materials-SG will stay fluid for hours on wax paper-the author,Bill Herndon, uses it as a sealer such as with (legal) ivoryto prevent warping-by applying it with a wire- pinhole openings can be filled-epoxy does not polish after drying SG does-SG demands a multiple coat finish-all multiple-coated finishes of all types- plastic,fiberglass,lacquer,etc.-must be allowed to dry-SG when applied in more than 6-8 coats needs to dry 5-10 days-longer not dry-SG will not stick to all woods--it may be used as a grain filler on heavy, oily woods-clean the wood with acetone to remove any finger oils- rubber gloves can NOT be used but throwaway plastic gloves areexcellent ($15/100 pairs)-work in a well ventilated area-use a small puddle of SG on the wax paper-use the tip of one finger of the plastic glue @ a time-dip and spreadon the wood-work fast-the glue will dry quickly with the early coats-do 3-5 coats per application to start-avoid runs-allow to dry for anhour or so and repeat-3-5 of the applications/ day is max-repeat until you get a good, deep finish-20-30 coats total-let wood dry for 5-10 days-do NOT sand between coats-an accelerator may= a frost and wrinkles-when cured carefully sand down the bumps and runs (320 or so grit) then4/0 steel wool- use a slow buffer with a loose, soft, unstitched wheel with white(rouge) plastic buffing cpd and VERY lightly buff the author also usesin the last buff Semichrome, Flitz, etc on a loose wheel-too much buff and removes the finish- if surface is dull buffing toofast- if pinholes the finish is not dry-he uses a neutral shoe wax to finish like to try it. I don't have any answers to questions as haven't triedit.Phil (on the Neversink River) from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 16 13:01:22 2000 e6GI1LG09712 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: The Planing Form Hi guys:I just wanted to thank those who encouraged me to subscribe to Ron's fine newsletter. I have thoroughly enjoyed going through the past two years of issues I received Friday.I just hope that some of the ideas we see here get submitted. They would make fine articles, and I am sure that there are other people who don't subscribe to both this list and the Planing Form who have a lot to share and learn with us all.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Jul 16 16:54:03 2000 e6GLs2G12379 Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:53:58 PDT Subject: Re: reelseat finish From: "nobler" Subject: Re: reelseat finishDate: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 10:23:14 -0500 The world of super glues, is vast and wide ! The better types are in themodel airplane world, some having a shelf life of 2 years ! All I have seen,or tried, are not resistant to methanol's, MEK.'s and the like, and in factwill curdle if some keytone bases are put over them. Prices in hobby shopsrun around $3.99, for a full 1 oz. bottle, and there are some that have nodangerous fumes, at about double the price ! The best I have found comes from Sig Mfg., that is right across the street from Brownells', in Montezuma, Iowa ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Phil Chase" Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 9:49 AMSubject: reelseat finish Ralph;You were asking about a possible finish for a reelseat- I make knives asa hobby and just got the Sept 2000 issue of BLADE magazine.A 3 pagearticle on the use of super glue (including warnings of use) for a wood> >finish that looked spectacular and described as"high-gloss durablegrip".A few points:-the glue likes non-porous materials-SG will stay fluid for hours on wax paper-the author,Bill Herndon, uses it as a sealer such as with (legal) ivoryto prevent warping-by applying it with a wire- pinhole openings can be filled-epoxy does not polish after drying SG does-SG demands a multiple coat finish-all multiple-coated finishes of all types-plastic,fiberglass,lacquer,etc.- must be allowed to dry-SG when applied in more than 6-8 coats needs to dry 5-10 days-longer not dry-SG will not stick to all woods--it may be used as a grain filler on heavy, oily woods-clean the wood with acetone to remove any finger oils- rubber gloves can NOT be used but throwaway plastic gloves areexcellent ($15/100 pairs)-work in a well ventilated area-use a small puddle of SG on the wax paper-use the tip of one finger of the plastic glue @ a time-dip and spreadon the wood-work fast-the glue will dry quickly with the early coats-do 3-5 coats per application to start-avoid runs-allow to dry for anhour or so and repeat-3-5 of the applications/ day is max-repeat until you get a good, deep finish-20-30 coats total-let wood dry for 5-10 days-do NOT sand between coats-an accelerator may= a frost and wrinkles-when cured carefully sand down the bumps and runs (320 or so grit)then4/0 steel wool- use a slow buffer with a loose, soft, unstitched wheel with white(rouge) plastic buffing cpd and VERY lightly buff the author also usesin the last buff Semichrome, Flitz, etc on a loose wheel-too much buff and removes the finish- if surface is dull buffing toofast- if pinholes the finish is not dry-he uses a neutral shoe wax to finish like to try it. I don't have any answers to questions as haven't triedit.Phil (on the Neversink River) I have been using only Sig epoxies and CyA on my rods for a long while now. Superior stuffA.J.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from mep@mint.net Sun Jul 16 17:00:16 2000 e6GM0GG12584 Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:00:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Getting Stiffed The purpose of a deposit is to force the customer to take on some of therisk of making the product. If the customer doesn't come through withthe rest of the money he looses his deposit. Give him one more chancethrough the mail, return receipt. Make sure he isn't in the hospital (hence the letter). If he doesn't come through keep the money and sellthe rod. Mike from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 16 17:11:20 2000 e6GMBJG12890 (204.186.33.29) Organization: ProLog Subject: Pezon et Michel 6' 2pc. Super Parabolic PPPMidget #4line Hi All, Here is the 6' P&M Super Parabolic PPP Midget taper. Rod saysSuper Parabolic but the action is a med/fast dry fly. I remember at onetime having a P&M reel marked Super Parabolic "76". So much for a name.It's a really great taper though. Rod has an offset ferrule. Measuredover varnish, deduct .003".Super Parabolic PPP Midget 6' 2 3/32oz #4Tip section length 40 3/4" / Butt section 32 1/4" Tip Butt00 .068" .176"05 .076 .18510 .085 .19815 .102 .21420 .117 .23025 .126 23" .240 start of grip30 .14135 .15740 .166 Guide spacing from TT 5 3/4"12"18 3/4"25 3/4"33 3/4"45" stripper5 3/4" grip/ 3 1/2" Cap & Ring with cork spacer.Good Luck, Marty DeSapio from dan_cooney@attglobal.net Sun Jul 16 19:27:27 2000 e6H0RRG14470 SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Wise Rodbuilding article Reed, Thanks for taking the time to share the Rodbuilding section of "The WiseFishermen's Encyclopedia" with all of us. It is really some interestingreading. What year was it published? Regards,Dan Cooney---------------------------------------------reed curry wrote: The Rodbuilding article from the Wise FIshermen's Encyclopedia, with allillustrations, is now on my website under "Extracts".Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Jul 16 19:40:30 2000 e6H0eTG14764 Subject: Impregnation I remember seeing a note about someone doing a test with immersing somecane in Poly to do an impregnating test. I never did see if he didanything further or how it turned out. I may be interested in doing someimpregnating of a few rods and would be interested in knowing if usingPolyurethane turned out. from anglport@con2.com Sun Jul 16 20:31:50 2000 e6H1VnG15470 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A10F65A0040; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:27:43 -0400 Subject: Re: ferrules All,What was the length and line weight of the H-I Tonka Queen? And werethescetions equal lengths?Thanks,Art from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 16 21:19:28 2000 e6H2JPG16145 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:20:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Impregnation I think Bob Nunley got some very good results, by impregnating, but I can'trecall exactly. How about it Bob ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Impregnation I remember seeing a note about someone doing a test with immersing somecane in Poly to do an impregnating test. I never did see if he didanything further or how it turned out. I may be interested in doing someimpregnating of a few rods and would be interested in knowing if usingPolyurethane turned out. from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jul 16 21:50:15 2000 e6H2oEG16637 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A58A1A9A00FC; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:55:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Wise Rodbuilding article Dan,Sorry for the omission, the copyright was 1951, to W. H. Wise Publishing.As you can imagine, this article took some time to prep for the net. I'llbe putting more extracts from "ancient" tomes up as I can.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Dan Cooney wrote: Reed, Thanks for taking the time to share the Rodbuilding section of "The WiseFishermen's Encyclopedia" with all of us. It is really some interestingreading. What year was it published? Regards,Dan Cooney---------------------------------------------reed curry wrote: The Rodbuilding article from the Wise FIshermen's Encyclopedia, with allillustrations, is now on my website under "Extracts".Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from mrmac@tcimet.net Sun Jul 16 22:48:14 2000 e6H3mEG17501 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Tonka Queen Art -The one I've got is 7' 9" and throws a pretty nice 5/6 TT line. Sections areequallength. Art Port wrote: All,What was the length and line weight of the H-I Tonka Queen? And werethescetions equal lengths?Thanks,Art from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jul 16 22:50:41 2000 e6H3oeG17624 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:45:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Impregnation George,I was working on something that had a lot of promise, but haven't beenable to mess with it lately. I emailed Bill offlist on what I had done, butit needs a lot more "trial and error" work before it can be nailed down.Things just got too hectic around here to do anything for the pastcouple of months, but, hopefully, after August or September, I'll pick up onit again and see how it comes out. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Impregnation I think Bob Nunley got some very good results, by impregnating, but I can'trecall exactly. How about it Bob ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:43 PMSubject: Impregnation I remember seeing a note about someone doing a test with immersingsomecane in Poly to do an impregnating test. I never did see if he didanything further or how it turned out. I may be interested in doing someimpregnating of a few rods and would be interested in knowing if usingPolyurethane turned out. from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jul 16 22:53:09 2000 e6H3r8G17778 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:48:02 -0500 Subject: FFF Conclave boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01BFEF77.FCC85F80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BFEF77.FCC85F80 Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to the Conclave? I'll be =there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe we =can get together. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BFEF77.FCC85F80 Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to the = be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe we = together. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BFEF77.FCC85F80-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jul 17 01:56:42 2000 e6H6ufG19853 Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:56:37 PDT Subject: Re: ferrules From: Art Port Subject: Re: ferrulesDate: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:33:42 -0400 All,What was the length and line weight of the H-I Tonka Queen? And werethescetions equal lengths?Thanks,Art The Queen was a 5wt 7'9" two pc rod with equal sections. I have the taper and guide spacing around somewhere if you want it. The queen cast very well, nicely tuned to the faster action that people prefer today. Would not have believed it unless I cast the thing. H&I actually could build a decent rod if they wanted to.A.J.Thramer ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from anglport@con2.com Mon Jul 17 05:56:21 2000 e6HAuKG22040 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A5617F5007E; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:52:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Tonka Queen Thanks to all who responded. I had the taper but didn't know the grossdetails of the thing! Crazy, huh? You know how thick to make a rod everyfive inches, but you don't know how many "five-inches-es" there are!:-) Art At 11:44 PM 07/16/2000 -0400, Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Art -The one I've got is 7' 9" and throws a pretty nice 5/6 TT line. Sectionsare equallength. Art Port wrote: All,What was the length and line weight of the H-I Tonka Queen? Andwere thescetions equal lengths?Thanks,Art from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Jul 17 06:03:56 2000 e6HB3sG22230 Subject: Repaire I just got two old rods in for repair. They are both Norwegian built,A.Hoergaard.One is a bastard called SpinnGlass, its a spinning rod with splitcanebutt, glass tip.The but has a splinter ca. 5" down from the ferrule. It is one of thesplines that has a break at the node. I t seems like it has splinter 3"each side of the break, 2-3mm deep.The splinter is only on the spline that broke, none of the other has anydamage that I cane see. After a look in the Garrison book, he suggest to use Elmers Woodworkingglue, Isuppose it is a ordinary white PVA wood glue?What do You list members think I should do, use "white" glu, PU or maybeepoxy?And will the repair make the rod fishable again, it is a 9` salmon rod? TIAdanny from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 17 07:34:45 2000 e6HCYiG23407 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:33:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Repaire I've done 2 similar repairs using the ProBond, and the work/repair isinvisible ! Hard flexing shows nothing. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Repaire I just got two old rods in for repair. They are both Norwegian built,A.Hoergaard.One is a bastard called SpinnGlass, its a spinning rod with splitcanebutt, glass tip.The but has a splinter ca. 5" down from the ferrule. It is one of thesplines that has a break at the node. I t seems like it has splinter 3"each side of the break, 2-3mm deep.The splinter is only on the spline that broke, none of the other has anydamage that I cane see. After a look in the Garrison book, he suggest to use Elmers Woodworkingglue, Isuppose it is a ordinary white PVA wood glue?What do You list members think I should do, use "white" glu, PU or maybeepoxy?And will the repair make the rod fishable again, it is a 9` salmon rod? TIAdanny from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Jul 17 08:36:10 2000 e6HDa9G25439 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Gudebrods products boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF005.91BDC8E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF005.91BDC8E0 Hi Listers I=B4ve bought the following Gudebrod Products: Color Preserver and Rod Varnish 822 I have tested them and found that their ability to preservethe colour of Gudebrods Nylon Thread and their Silk, andPearsalls Gossamer Silk, is better than any other methodof laquering the thread windings. What I dont now is, how about durability. Are there any ofYou guys who have long time experience with these products,I=B4d be very glad to hear from You. reagrds, CarstenDania Flyrods ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF005.91BDC8E0 Hi Listers I=B4ve bought the following Gudebrod =Products: Color Preserver and Rod Varnish 822 preservethe colour of Gudebrods Nylon Thread and their Silk,= and methodof laquering the thread windings. What I dont now is, how about durability. Are there = ofYou guys who have long time experience with products,I=B4d be very glad to hear from You. reagrds, CarstenDania Flyrods ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF005.91BDC8E0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jul 17 08:39:22 2000 e6HDdJG25678 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:39:16 +0800 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:39:15 +0800 Subject: Re: off topic- rugby Yeah well, Aust would have won too if they had have just scored morepoints.....It was a good game..... I guess............................ Well done NZ. Tony At 06:23 PM 7/16/00 +1000, petermckean wrote: Just thought I'dwarn you that anything said at this time by Ian Kearney on the subject ofRugby ought be treated as the ravings of a demented mind!(Congratulations, NZ. Good game!)Damn!Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from ingvar.cane@swipnet.se Mon Jul 17 08:50:11 2000 e6HDoAG26330 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:49:03 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Pezon et Michel boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF006.96EC45C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF006.96EC45C0 Hi all, Once upon a time there was a serie of PPP rods Progressiv Perpendicular =Power is what the three P:s stand for. It were the Supermarvel 7=B42" =staggerde ferrule #5 quick and nice dryfly rod, the Colorado 7=B47" =staggered ferrule #4-5 line medium to parabolic action and a very fine =rod, the Fario Club 8=B45" Charles Ritz;s famous taper fo a #5 line =parabolic action, the Power Plus 8=B43" fast but inclining to parabolic =action #6-7 and the Long Cast 8=B47" for a #6-7 line parabolic but =somewhat slow. It was in the end of 60 and in the beginning of the 70 =and I have not any of left because i sold them and bought (dare I say it =) graphiterods instead.I have found the tapers for the Colorado, the Supermarvel and the Fario =Club (Hexrod on line), but I still is trying to find the taper for the =Power Plus does anyone out there have it. I am very interested in it =because I plane to modifie it and make it a threepiece hollow 8=B43". =(sorry for my terrible Sw English) Ingvar ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF006.96EC45C0 Hi all, Once upon a time there was a serie of = Supermarvel 7=B42" staggerde ferrule #5 quick and nice dryfly rod, the = 7=B47" staggered ferrule #4-5 line medium to parabolic action and a very = the Fario Club 8=B45" Charles Ritz;s famous taper fo a #5 line parabolic = the Power Plus 8=B43" fast but inclining to parabolic action #6-7 and = Cast 8=B47" for a #6-7 line parabolic but somewhat slow. It was in the = and in the beginning of the 70 and I have not any of left because i sold = and bought (dare I say it ) graphiterods instead.I have found the tapers for the = find the taper for the Power Plus does anyone out there have it. I am = interested in it because I plane to modifie it and make it a threepiece = 8=B43". (sorry for my terrible Sw English) Ingvar ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF006.96EC45C0-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Jul 17 09:17:06 2000 e6HEH5G27468 0400 Subject: guide spacing for a Young Para-14 boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFEFFA.B0EB0429" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEFFA.B0EB0429 Hi...does anyone know the guide spacing (and sizes) for the 7'9" YoungPara 14? Thanks in advance...Andy ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEFFA.B0EB0429 guide spacing for a Young Para-14 Hi...does anyone know the guide spacing (and sizes) forthe 7'9" Young Para 14? Thanks in advance...Andy ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFEFFA.B0EB0429-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jul 17 10:45:15 2000 e6HFjDG01442 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:47:41 -0500 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave boundary="------------2D959C9D4B23C6C030152E1F" --------------2D959C9D4B23C6C030152E1F Bob,I plan on leaving on the 27 th for Livingston.Look me up in the tyers aisle. Anyone else going,stop by and say hello.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to theConclave? I'll be there from the 31st on, andif others are going to be there, maybe we canget together. Bob --------------2D959C9D4B23C6C030152E1F Bob,I plan on leaving on the 27 th for Livingston. Look me up in the tyersaisle. Anyone else going, stop by and say hello. Bob Nunley wrote: be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe we --------------2D959C9D4B23C6C030152E1F-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 17 11:03:12 2000 e6HG3BG02345 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:03:06 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: FFF Conclave boundary="------------6274B644123A038E44368841" --------------6274B644123A038E44368841 Bob and Tony,Are you guys going to be at the Catskillsgathering on 9 and 10 of Sept?? Shawn Tony Spezio wrote: Bob,I plan on leaving on the 27 th for Livingston. Look me up in the tyersaisle. Anyone else going, stop by and say hello.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to the Conclave? I'll bethere from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybewe can get together. Bob --------------6274B644123A038E44368841 Bob and Tony, Are you guys going to be at the Catskills gathering on 9 and 10 of Sept?? ShawnTony Spezio wrote:Bob,I plan on leaving on the 27 th for Livingston. Look me up in the tyersaisle. Anyone else going, stop by and say hello. Bob Nunley wrote: be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe wecan get together. Bob --------------6274B644123A038E44368841-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 17 11:18:57 2000 e6HGIuG02923 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:18:52 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: FFF Conclave boundary="------------E0684A2E11B7582BC6A7A278" --------------E0684A2E11B7582BC6A7A278 Man,you guys are addicted as bad as me, couldn't have got muchfaster response times if we were in a chat room!LOLShawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Bob and Tony,Are you guys going to be at the Catskillsgathering on 9 and 10 of Sept?? Shawn Tony Spezio wrote: Bob,I plan on leaving on the 27 th for Livingston. Look me up in thetyers aisle. Anyone else going, stop by and say hello.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to the Conclave? I'll bethere from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybewe can get together. Bob --------------E0684A2E11B7582BC6A7A278 Man, addictedas bad as me, couldn't have got much faster response times if we were ina chat room!LOL ShawnShawn Pineo wrote:Bob and Tony, Are you guys going to be at the Catskills gathering on 9 and 10 of Sept?? ShawnTony Spezio wrote:Bob,I plan on leaving on the 27 th for Livingston. Look me up in the tyersaisle. Anyone else going, stop by and say hello. Bob Nunley wrote: be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe wecan get together. Bob --------------E0684A2E11B7582BC6A7A278-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Jul 17 11:19:24 2000 e6HGJNG02990 Subject: RE: FFF Conclave boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFF00A.C0337440" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF00A.C0337440 Where can I get more info on the Conclave? I'm going to be in Mt around thenand want to see if I can get to Livingston for some of it. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: FFF Conclave Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to the Conclave? I'll be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe we can gettogether. Bob ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF00A.C0337440 Where can I get more info on the Conclave? I'm going to be in Mt around then andwant to see if I can get to Livingston for some of it. Barry Kling -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley 10:49 Conclave I'll be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe wecan get together. Bob ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFF00A.C0337440-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jul 17 11:40:04 2000 e6HGe3G03999 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:42:31 -0500 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave boundary="------------CDEAE9783A87BB2612ACB344" --------------CDEAE9783A87BB2612ACB344 Barry,Go to www.fedflyfishers.org and click on theConclave. If you need any additional info contactme off list.Stop by and say hello.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Where can I get more info on the Conclave? I'mgoing to be in Mt around then and want to see ifI can get to Livingston for some of it.BarryKling -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 10:49 PM Subject: FFF Conclave Is anyone on the list going toLivingston to the Conclave? I'll bethere from the 31st on, and if othersare going to be there, maybe we canget together. Bob --------------CDEAE9783A87BB2612ACB344 Barry,Go to www.fedflyfishers.org and click on the Conclave. If you needany additional info contact me off list.Stop by and say hello. "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Wherecan I get more info on the Conclave? I'm going to be in Mt around thenand want to see if I can get to Livingston for some ofit.BarryKling -----OriginalMessage----- Sent: Sunday, July 16,200010:49 PM ServeSubject: FFFConclave be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe we --------------CDEAE9783A87BB2612ACB344-- from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Jul 17 12:22:13 2000 e6HHMCG05672 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A0C2E379019E; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:22:10 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: FFF Conclave boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFEFE9.5FCC34A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFEFE9.5FCC34A0 http://www.fedflyfishers.org/show2000/default.htm is the first page of =the conclave info... hope it helps,have fun ya'll... Brad Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 11:18 AMSubject: RE: FFF Conclave Where can I get more info on the Conclave? I'm going to be in Mt =around then and want to see if I can get to Livingston for some of it. Barry Kling-----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 10:49 PM Subject: FFF Conclave Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to the Conclave? I'll be =there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, maybe we =can get together. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFEFE9.5FCC34A0 http://www.fed= the first page of the conclave info... hope it helps,have fun ya'll... Brad ----- Original Message ----- Kling, Barry W. Makers List Serve Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 = AMSubject: RE: FFF Conclave Where can I get more info on theConclave? = to be in Mt around then and want to see if I can get to Livingston for = it. Barry Kling -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley ServeSubject: FFF Conclave Is anyone on the list going to Livingston to the = I'll be there from the 31st on, and if others are going to be there, = we can get together. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFEFE9.5FCC34A0-- from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Jul 17 14:05:54 2000 e6HJ5sG10427 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: Orvis ferrules To the List: Does anyone on this list have experience with removing Orvis ferrules? I have a 2-pc. mid-60's vintage 7-1/2' rod with a factory replacement female ferrule that was poorly mounted (not straight and slightly loose) by them. I'd like to reset it without shipping the rod back, but the ferrule has defied removal after trying gentle heating. The ferrule itself is fine. It lacks serrations, but in the lower portion that had been covered with the wrap there are two small depressions that under magnification look more like sharply punched dimples rather than sunken pins. Any ideas on what they are? Could they be carefully drilled out to allow removal? As an alternative to removal: the heating has allowed straightening of the ferrule, and I can no longer feel the previous rather abrupt movement when pushing on the ferrule perpendicular to the rod shaft. I'd like to assume that they used a heat setting ferrule cement and that the heating reset the ferrule properly. Visually, the ferrule remains straight. However, with a tip mounted in the ferrule and holding my finger where the ferrule meets the cane, I can still feel some very, very slight movement when I flex the rod. I've never held my finger on an unwrapped ferrule this way before, so I don't know what is typical. Is this very slight movement typical and the cause of the nearly universal crack in varnished wraps at the ferrule, or is it dangerous to the rod? Thanks in advance for your help... Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jul 17 14:45:01 2000 e6HJj1G12926 Subject: Nickel Silver wire follow-up All, I promised a followup on my web source of NS after I recieved my order. Well, it arrived and upon openning th epackage I found that the company had subsitutied brass wire for the 18 guage NS wire that I needed the most. The 20 gauge was NS and is fine. I've email them and I'm waiting to hear back. So at this time, I can't say that I'd give them a thumbs up - yet. Don Burns PS - If anyone else wants to try them knowing the problem that I've had - I'll publish the web site at this time: http://www.wire- sculpture.com/practicewire.htm from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jul 17 14:56:37 2000 e6HJuVG13691 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave FFF program chair did not schedule anything specifically for bamboo rodbuilders, As many of you know we had an all day Symposium two years agoin Idaho Falls.and then we also had one last year in GatlinbergI have received a number of inquiries about what we are going to do thisyear. At first I was looking at privately sponsoring some kind ofreception, but scheduling conflicts have made that virtuallyimpossible. The FFF office, however, has generously given me two boothsto have some kind of bamboo exhibit. I am afraid that beyond showingthe tools materials and supplies and demonstrating how to etc, I can'toffer much more. I would like to see the booths used a a meeting place acquainted. . Personally I am not trying to sell any of my wares, butLauren Bagley and given me permission to use the space for any of youwho might like to show your rods and/or sell them. I will need to beinformed before hand if you wish to do this. I am inviting all those ofyou who are going to attend to come to the booths (61-62) and meet andvisit others. Also if any one has a special presentation (formal orinformal) and would like to give it, we will try to drum up audiences.If any of you would like help me out and spend an hour or more watchingthe booth and meeting rod builders, let me know. The open days areThursday-Saturday 9:00 to 5:00 (August 2-5). Any questions suggestionsitc. Please e-mail me rmoon@ida.net Ralph MoonI will try to arrand with Bob Wiltshire to have a small collection ofclassic cane rods. Including a huge Winston. from jczimny@dol.net Mon Jul 17 15:08:41 2000 e6HK8eG14200 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Orvis ferrules I'm sure that they were pinned. Find the pins and remove them.John Z Terry Finger wrote: To the List: Does anyone on this list have experience with removing Orvisferrules? I have a 2-pc. mid-60's vintage 7-1/2' rod with a factoryreplacement female ferrule that was poorly mounted (not straight andslightly loose) by them. I'd like to reset it without shipping therod back, but the ferrule has defied removal after trying gentleheating. The ferrule itself is fine. It lacks serrations, but in the lowerportion that had been covered with the wrap there are twosmall depressions that under magnification look more likesharply punched dimples rather than sunken pins. Any ideas on whatthey are? Could they be carefully drilled out to allow removal? As an alternative to removal: the heating has allowed straighteningof the ferrule, and I can no longer feel the previous rather abruptmovement when pushing on the ferrule perpendicular to the rod shaft.I'd like to assume that they used a heat setting ferrule cement andthat the heating reset the ferrule properly. Visually, the ferruleremains straight. However, with a tip mounted in the ferrule andholding my finger where the ferrule meets the cane, I can still feelsome very, very slight movement when I flex the rod. I've never heldmy finger on an unwrapped ferrule this way before, so I don't knowwhat is typical. Is this very slight movement typical and the causeof the nearly universal crack in varnished wraps at the ferrule, oris it dangerous to the rod? Thanks in advance for your help... Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jul 17 15:16:10 2000 e6HKG9G14643 NAA11642 ESMTP for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:15:51 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: garrison tape Hoagy has re-released the garrison tape and they $25 plus shipping. RonBarch has the ordering form that came with this months planing form forthose of you who don't subscribe. I saw the tape up at corbett lake this yearand it is definitely worth the money. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 17 15:36:17 2000 e6HKaGG15311 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:35:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Gudebrods products That's interesting Carsten. I've been using an old bottle of color preserverthat's at least 40 years old, and it has always left the color as original.Then I got some olive green to match an old Shakespeare, and the first coatof the old reliable, turned the olive almost black ! I should have testedit, but after so long, I wasn't even thinking of such a color change. Liveand learn, I guess ! longer, and I like the clear look. In all, I've never seen color preservedwraps stay really nice, if the rod is fished much. Varnished wraps seem tolast forever, and are easy to touch up. BTW, who carries the Gudebrod preserver ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Gudebrods products Hi Listers I've bought the following Gudebrod Products: Color Preserver and Rod Varnish 822 I have tested them and found that their ability to preservethe colour of Gudebrods Nylon Thread and their Silk, andPearsalls Gossamer Silk, is better than any other methodof laquering the thread windings. What I dont now is, how about durability. Are there any ofYou guys who have long time experience with these products,I'd be very glad to hear from You. reagrds, CarstenDania Flyrods from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 17 17:03:33 2000 e6HM3QG17906 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:04:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Orvis ferrules If it was me, I'd send it to the maker. So many have long passed on, butthey are still showing cane in their catalog, so surely they have someonewho can make it right ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Orvis ferrules To the List: Does anyone on this list have experience with removing Orvisferrules? I have a 2-pc. mid-60's vintage 7-1/2' rod with a factoryreplacement female ferrule that was poorly mounted (not straight andslightly loose) by them. I'd like to reset it without shipping therod back, but the ferrule has defied removal after trying gentleheating. The ferrule itself is fine. It lacks serrations, but in the lowerportion that had been covered with the wrap there are twosmall depressions that under magnification look more likesharply punched dimples rather than sunken pins. Any ideas on whatthey are? Could they be carefully drilled out to allow removal? As an alternative to removal: the heating has allowed straighteningof the ferrule, and I can no longer feel the previous rather abruptmovement when pushing on the ferrule perpendicular to the rod shaft.I'd like to assume that they used a heat setting ferrule cement andthat the heating reset the ferrule properly. Visually, the ferruleremains straight. However, with a tip mounted in the ferrule andholding my finger where the ferrule meets the cane, I can still feelsome very, very slight movement when I flex the rod. I've never heldmy finger on an unwrapped ferrule this way before, so I don't knowwhat is typical. Is this very slight movement typical and the causeof the nearly universal crack in varnished wraps at the ferrule, oris it dangerous to the rod? Thanks in advance for your help... Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from johanyga@online.no Mon Jul 17 17:09:50 2000 e6HM9nG18145 (MET DST) Subject: Creusevaut Power Plus 8'3'' boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF04B.1C94F200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF04B.1C94F200 Ingvar,I have got an original Power Plus Type Creusevaut 8'3''. I can bring =the rod to the conclave in Gimdalen,Sweden next month, I reckon you will =be there. Then you can then take the measures yourself - or, if you are =in a hurry, I can of course take the measures and have it sent to you as =soon as possible.In addition to the five rods you mentioned there was also an 8'3'' =Master Lambiotte for line 5/6. regardsJohan(Norway) ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF04B.1C94F200 Ingvar,I have got an original Power Plus Type = measures yourself - or, if you are in a hurry, I can of course take the = and have it sent to you as soon as possible.In addition to the five rods you = was also an 8'3'' Master Lambiotte for line 5/6. regardsJohan(Norway) ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF04B.1C94F200-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 17 17:28:24 2000 e6HMSOG18737 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal Thanks to all for the useful info. I think that this offset ferrule/ parabolic design warrants some more research! It makes sense actually,you have a larger,stronger ferrule station and a stiff/small part of yourparabolic action built in. Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Does anyone out there know what was the lightest line Parabolic thatPezon And Micheal made?? Where can I find the taper?? I would beinterested in any thing that anyone could tell me about any of theirrods as well.TIA, Shawn from jim@seahorses.com Mon Jul 17 17:43:55 2000 e6HMhsG19255 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:43:27 -0700 Subject: RE: Is anyone in the Plaverville, CA area? Importance: Normal Hi Darrell I would like to go very much, the week before I will be doingsome volunteer work on Pupfish rehab in the area, so I willbe in the area. But my Wife and Daughter will be with me, is it appropriateto bring them? (My daughter is 3 1/2 years old.)Looking fromthe pictures of last year, it looks like an adult group. Thanks for the help. Jim ForsheyAquatic Book ShopP.O. Box 2150Shingle Springs, CA 95682- 2150USA www.Seahorses.com Phone (530)622-7547 (Evenings and weekends), FAX (530)622-7157Wanted Aquarium and Ichthyology (Fish) Books, Magazines and Videos (inany Language)'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,..˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 4:32 PM Subject: RE: Is anyone in the Plaverville, CA area? Well, you might want to check out the upcoming BishopRodMakers GatheringOctober 13-15th. Here's the link... http://www.vfish.net/gwbishop.htm Be sure to subscribe to the info newsletter, this way youwill be notifiedof what's happening and any last minute changes. Tenatively we have Ray Gould, author of "Construction CaneRods" who will beour "keynote" speaker. We will have demos on some bevelers and otherequipment. It will be held at Chuck Irvine's home/workshop inBishop, CA soyou can see a real operating rod shop. His shop is the envy of all who visited last year. While the gathering is not around the corner, the nextclosest gathering isabout an extra 700 miles away or more. Regards, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, July 14, 2000 3:14 PM Subject: Is anyone in the Plaverville, CA area? Hi If possible I would like to talk to someone in my area. Ihave always wantedto build a Bamboo Rod and have enjoyed reading the lists verymuch, But Ineed to see something before it sinks in. Could someone be of help? Thanks Jim ForsheyAquatic Book ShopP.O. Box 2150Shingle Springs, CA 95682- 2150USA www.Seahorses.com Phone (530)622-7547 (Evenings and weekends), FAX (530)622-7157Wanted Aquarium and Ichthyology (Fish) Books, Magazines andVideos (inany Language)'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,..˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 17 17:46:08 2000 e6HMk7G19386 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Gudebrods products e6HMk8G19387 As to who carries it, well, I could not get it here in Europe,so I bought it from Gudebrods. The stuff is waterbased, easy to work with and dries fairlyquick - an turns stonehard. I really like the stuff, and as I wrote,this stuff is really good at preserving colour. Could it be somekind of water based epoxy? The colour preserver is definately not the usual thing, no smellof solvents. regards,carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 17 17:50:42 2000 e6HMofG19581 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Creusevaut Power Plus 8'3'' boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF052.57EB82E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF052.57EB82E0 Hi Johan Tapers would be welcome:-)) Where in Sweden is Gimdalen? Hopefully not too far north.Could You provde me woth data for this conclave? regards,Carsten P.S: Endelig noget for os skandinaver - vi kan jo ikke alle ligetage til staterne for at snakke fluestenger:-))) Ingvar,I have got an original Power Plus Type Creusevaut 8'3''. I can bring =the rod to the conclave in Gimdalen,Sweden next month, I reckon you will =be there. Then you can then take the measures yourself - or, if you are =in a hurry, I can of course take the measures and have it sent to you as =soon as possible.In addition to the five rods you mentioned there was also an 8'3'' =Master Lambiotte for line 5/6. regardsJohan(Norway) ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF052.57EB82E0 Hi Johan Tapers would be =welcome:-)) Where in Sweden is Gimdalen? Hopefully= north.Could You provde me woth data for conclave? regards,Carsten P.S: Endelig noget for os skandinaver -= ikke alle lige fluestenger:-))) Ingvar,I have got an original Power Plus = measures yourself - or, if you are in a hurry, I can of course take = measures and have it sent to you as soon as possible.In addition to the five rods you = was also an 8'3'' Master Lambiotte for line 5/6. regardsJohan(Norway) ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF052.57EB82E0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jul 17 19:36:26 2000 e6I0aNG21457 Subject: Climax lines I was just reading some fishing gear propaganda specificaly relating toClimax lines and I noticed they have a DT line with two different lineweights on the same line. Sounds interesting. Anybody used one of these? Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. " - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from johnsabina@home.com Mon Jul 17 19:48:36 2000 e6I0maG21680 (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP 0700 Subject: Airbrushing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFF02F.F905CFA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFF02F.F905CFA0 My first rod is nearly complete! I started with Wayne Cattanach's great =class and now must only add guides, wraps, and finish. Wayne's =instructions as to finish were very clear--build a dip tube and use spar =varnish. My problem is that I want to use the rod in three weeks and do =not have time for all of the sanding between coats. So I just applied =my fourth coat of hand rubbed tung oil on the unwrapped blank. After =three more coats, I will apply the guides and wraps. Then, some light =varnish coats on the wraps and off to Yellowstone. I will then dip the completed rod after I return. This seemed logical =to me. But while discussing varnishing by dipping with an experienced =wood worker, he suggested that dipping is a poor way to get a thin, =uniform coat of varnish. He suggested that air brushing on a spar =varnish finish might be a fundamentally better approach. Has any list =member tried this? What do you think? John Sabina ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFF02F.F905CFA0 My first rod is nearly = with Wayne Cattanach's great class and now must only add guides, wraps, = three weeks and do not have time for all of the sanding between = Then, some light varnish coats on the wraps and off to =Yellowstone. I will then dip the completed rod = John =Sabina ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFF02F.F905CFA0-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jul 17 20:59:00 2000 e6I1wxG22670 Subject: Re: Airbrushing In a message dated 07/17/2000 8:57:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johnsabina@home.com writes: John,I've been spraying my rods wih an air brush for years. Itworks good for me. A lot easier than a dip tank to me. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 17 21:16:51 2000 e6I2GmG23012 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:15:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Airbrushing I've done lots of airbrushing, only not with varnish yet. I plan to lookinto this further, by thinning small amounts to see if it gives problems.Having the mixture thin enough to spray properly is THE secret to goodairbrush work. I also intend to look into this newer high volume, low pressure spray gear,as it wastes little paint, yet covers very well. I've just obtained some real, old fashioned spar varnish. It's Epifane, madein Holland. By using an airbrush set up, I think a qt. will cover many rods. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Airbrushing My first rod is nearly complete! I started with Wayne Cattanach's greatclass and now must only add guides, wraps, and finish. Wayne's instructionsas to finish were very clear--build a dip tube and use spar varnish. Myproblem is that I want to use the rod in three weeks and do not have time hand rubbed tung oil on the unwrapped blank. After three more coats, I willapply the guides and wraps. Then, some light varnish coats on the wraps andoff to Yellowstone. I will then dip the completed rod after I return. This seemed logical tome. But while discussing varnishing by dipping with an experienced woodworker, he suggested that dipping is a poor way to get a thin, uniform coatof varnish. He suggested that air brushing on a spar varnish finish mightbe a fundamentally better approach. Has any list member tried this? Whatdo you think? John Sabina from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 17 21:17:13 2000 e6I2HBG23072 19:17:13 PDT Subject: Re: Airbrushing i have a buddy that has been hand brushing and airbrushing rods for 25yrs. you won't find many rodsbetter looking than his. he says proper techique isvery important and would incourage you to practicefirst. timothy--- LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 07/17/2000 8:57:14 PM EasternDaylight Time, johnsabina@home.com writes: I will then dip the completed rod after I return. This seemed logical to me. But while discussing varnishing by dipping withan experienced wood worker, he suggested that dipping is a poor way toget a thin, uniform coat of varnish. He suggested that air brushing on aspar varnish finish might be a fundamentally better approach. Has any listmember tried this? What do you think? John Sabina >>John,I've been spraying my rods wih anair brush for years. Itworks good for me. A lot easier than a dip tankto me. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 17 21:17:44 2000 e6I2HfG23164 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:18:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Climax lines That's not a bad idea, is it? Where did you see it ? Web site ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Climax lines I was just reading some fishing gear propaganda specificaly relating toClimax lines and I noticed they have a DT line with two different lineweights on the same line. Sounds interesting. Anybody used one of these? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jul 17 22:27:48 2000 e6I3RlG24602 Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal One other thing Shawn, Charles Ritz make a number of points about rodweight and balance. However in regard to the staggered ferrule, thefact that it is placing the weight further toward the handle gives abetter action since it prevents the rod from feeling tip heavy. Thedifference in weights between the staggared (larger) ferrule and the midstep ferrule (smaller) is to slight to be considered. Ralph P. S. If you come to the FFF Conclave the museum has a splendid Pezonand Michel rod. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Mon Jul 17 22:29:58 2000 e6I3TvG24693 Subject: Re: Climax lines The Climax Double wt lines are a couple of years old now. I used to beable to get them but the zero interest caused my distributor to stopcarrying them. It's just too inconvenient to pull an entire line off areel to get at the other end (unless of course it's a DT and one end isused up). Most folks can afford to have two lines on two reels or twospools. Especially with all the deals flying over the internet thesedays. I'm not even sure if Climax still makes them. But it would be easyenough to find out. Regards, BobFly Supplieswww.flysupplies.homepage.com/ On Mon, 17 Jul 2000, nobler wrote: That's not a bad idea, is it? Where did you see it ? Web site ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 7:48 PMSubject: Climax lines I was just reading some fishing gear propaganda specificaly relating toClimax lines and I noticed they have a DT line with two different lineweights on the same line. Sounds interesting. Anybody used one ofthese? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Jul 18 00:12:11 2000 e6I5CAG26235 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:12:06 PDT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Orvis ferrules From: "nobler" Subject: Re: Orvis ferrulesDate: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:07:30 -0500 If it was me, I'd send it to the maker. So many have long passed on, butthey are still showing cane in their catalog, so surely they have someonewho can make it right ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Terry Finger" Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 9:10 AMSubject: Orvis ferrules To the List: Does anyone on this list have experience with removing Orvisferrules? I have a 2-pc. mid-60's vintage 7-1/2' rod with a factoryreplacement female ferrule that was poorly mounted (not straight andslightly loose) by them. I'd like to reset it without shipping therod back, but the ferrule has defied removal after trying gentleheating. The ferrule itself is fine. It lacks serrations, but in the lowerportion that had been covered with the wrap there are twosmall depressions that under magnification look more likesharply punched dimples rather than sunken pins. Any ideas on whatthey are? Could they be carefully drilled out to allow removal? As an alternative to removal: the heating has allowed straighteningof the ferrule, and I can no longer feel the previous rather abruptmovement when pushing on the ferrule perpendicular to the rod shaft.I'd like to assume that they used a heat setting ferrule cement andthat the heating reset the ferrule properly. Visually, the ferruleremains straight. However, with a tip mounted in the ferrule andholding my finger where the ferrule meets the cane, I can still feelsome very, very slight movement when I flex the rod. I've never heldmy finger on an unwrapped ferrule this way before, so I don't knowwhat is typical. Is this very slight movement typical and the causeof the nearly universal crack in varnished wraps at the ferrule, oris it dangerous to the rod? Thanks in advance for your help... Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us Orvis didn't have any cane rods in their factory outlet store last time I heard, besides which they don't actually build them anymore! The ferruled blanks are made in New England under contract now. The blanks are ofcourse then finished like a plastic pole.A.J. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jul 18 00:13:53 2000 e6I5DqG26335 Subject: Rod Part Needed boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E5_01BFF04C.A0B8A760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02E5_01BFF04C.A0B8A760 Group,Jim Britt at Angler's Workshop is looking for the handle to a 30's era =Shakespeare bamboo bass rod. It is detachable, of bright, smooth =aluminum, and has a skip and screw reel foot fastener. The whole handle =is aluminum, grip included. Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_02E5_01BFF04C.A0B8A760 Group,Jim Britt at Angler's = fastener. The whole handle is aluminum, grip =included.If anyone can help, = ------=_NextPart_000_02E5_01BFF04C.A0B8A760-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Jul 18 00:20:05 2000 e6I5K4G26581 Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:20:00 PDT Subject: Tonka Queen 0 .0745 .09310 .10615 .12620 .13825 .15430 .16635 .17840 .19045 .20250 .23455 .24660 .25865 .27070 .28275 .29480 .306 Guides from tip down3.58.013.520.529.039.049.562.5 A.J.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jul 18 00:35:15 2000 e6I5ZEG26916 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:30:07 -0500 Subject: PHY needs. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0216_01BFF04F.64E9F4C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0216_01BFF04F.64E9F4C0 I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has some bad wraps. I need to find the =color to match. This is an almost golden brown. I tried Pearsalls =Antique Gold, with several different color preservers, but nothing quite =matched. Does anyone know what was used, or have any of the original =thread (or suitable substitue) that they would be willing to sell. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0216_01BFF04F.64E9F4C0 Antique Gold, with several different color preservers, but nothing quite = thread (or suitable substitue) that they would be willing to sell. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0216_01BFF04F.64E9F4C0-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jul 18 01:21:14 2000 e6I6LBG28764 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:15:02 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: PHY needs. Hi Bob,can't help you with original thread but there is a place here in West Ozthat has heaps of silk thread in a multitude of colours (quite a fewgold/browns). They are really nice people and I could probably organisesome colour samples if you like. I can't remember the brand right now butI'll have a look when I get home tonight. Best regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: PHY needs. I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has some bad wraps. I need to find the colorto match. This is an almost golden brown. I tried Pearsalls Antique Gold,with several different color preservers, but nothing quite matched. Doesanyone know what was used, or have any of the original thread (or suitablesubstitue) that they would be willing to sell. Thanks,Bob from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 18 04:35:19 2000 e6I9ZIG02239 Tue, 18 Jul 2000 06:35:14 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: PHY needs. boundary="------------C4225EFA41BDDC5E07A38EC5" --------------C4225EFA41BDDC5E07A38EC5 Bob,I believe the silk used on the original PHY's was BeldingCorticelli, Antique Gold. I can't remember the color # off hand but Ithink it was 3715 ??As far as a source, try Robert Milardo here on the list, heshould be able to help you out??Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has some bad wraps. I need to find thecolor to match. This is an almost golden brown. I tried PearsallsAntique Gold, with several different color preservers, but nothingquite matched. Does anyone know what was used, or have any of theoriginal thread (or suitable substitue) that they would be willing tosell. Thanks,Bob --------------C4225EFA41BDDC5E07A38EC5 Bob, remember the color # off hand but I think it was 3715 ?? source,try Robert Milardo here on the list, he should be able to help you out?? Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has know what was used, or have any of the original thread (or suitablesubstitue) --------------C4225EFA41BDDC5E07A38EC5-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Jul 18 05:38:00 2000 e6IAbwG03045 Subject: Repaire II I glued the broken section with PU, and it takes a hard flex withoutshowing any strangecurve... It is almost invisible, just a dark line where the cane was completebroke at the node.The rest of the rod looks ok, so I was thinking of just varnish thesection between theferrule and the first guide. The rod is winded with black/yellow jasparsilk, with "gold"plating under spiralwinding. So I'm not going to redo it!! Any suggestions to mach the new varnish to the old "yellowish"? TIAdanny from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 18 06:53:25 2000 e6IBrOG04170 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 18 Jul 2000 06:54:47 -0500 Subject: Re: PHY needs. All the PHY rods I saw on the racks in stores, back in the 1950's, and thethread Paul sold me was a beige (brownish khaki), and retained that colorwith preserver. If varnish filled, in turned a rich translucent brown. Thebrand name is correct, as I still have a spool or two. The varnish filledcolor almost disappeared on his dark flame cane. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PHY needs. Bob,I believe the silk used on the original PHY's was BeldingCorticelli, Antique Gold. I can't remember the color # off hand but Ithink it was 3715 ??As far as a source, try Robert Milardo here on the list, heshould be able to help you out??Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has some bad wraps. I need to find thecolor to match. This is an almost golden brown. I tried PearsallsAntique Gold, with several different color preservers, but nothingquite matched. Does anyone know what was used, or have any of theoriginal thread (or suitable substitue) that they would be willing tosell. Thanks,Bob from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 18 07:08:27 2000 e6IC8QG04440 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:09:56 -0500 Subject: Re: PHY needs. The number on the spool of thread PHY used is #319. It is very close toGudebrod #832, and Pearsall's Naples silk has a color that is also veryclose. No number on their spool, but I got it from Russ at G.W.. The #832 isjust slightly darker. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: PHY needs. I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has some bad wraps. I need to find the colorto match. This is an almost golden brown. I tried Pearsalls Antique Gold,with several different color preservers, but nothing quite matched. Doesanyone know what was used, or have any of the original thread (or suitablesubstitue) that they would be willing to sell. Thanks,Bob from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Jul 18 07:16:09 2000 e6ICG8G04694 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver wire follow-up I haven't used this company but their prices seem to be reasonable.http://www.metalworks.com/NickelS&W.htmRegards,Gary H. At 03:44 PM 7/17/00 EDT, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, I promised a followup on my web source of NS after I recieved my order.Well, it arrived and upon openning th epackage I found that the company had subsitutied brass wire for the 18 guage NS wire that I needed the most. The 20 gauge was NS and is fine. I've email them and I'm waiting to hear back. So at this time, I can't say that I'd give them a thumbs up - yet. Don Burns PS - If anyone else wants to try them knowing the problem that I've had - I'll publish the web site at this time: http://www.wire- sculpture.com/practicewire.htm from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 18 07:29:49 2000 e6ICTmG05029 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:31:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Repaire II That's a tough one, when matching aged varnish ! maybe sustained sun light ?I did a deco wrap over the broken section, since it was mid point betweengrip and first guide. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Repaire II I glued the broken section with PU, and it takes a hard flex withoutshowing any strangecurve... It is almost invisible, just a dark line where the cane was completebroke at the node.The rest of the rod looks ok, so I was thinking of just varnish thesection between theferrule and the first guide. The rod is winded with black/yellow jasparsilk, with "gold"plating under spiralwinding. So I'm not going to redo it!! Any suggestions to mach the new varnish to the old "yellowish"? TIAdanny from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jul 18 12:03:25 2000 e6IH3OG13936 Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:03:16 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Trip Report: Alaska (kinda long) My first shot at a trip report, so bear with me: According to our pilot, almost no one flies into Anchorage on aclear day. Soaring over the snow-covered mountains of Alberta andBritish Columbia rewarded us with rare views, scores of miles in everydirection. from above, the appeal of the Alaskan Peninsula was almostenough to make us change our plans before we ever touched Alaskan soil.Bright sunshine at 10pm; dusk at 2am, dawn at 4am; takes somegetting used to. The need for sleep never crossed my mind until thethird day, when I crashed and slept away a good afternoon's fishing.King Salmon were never meant to be caught on a fly rod,especially one made of bamboo. My first Talachulitna King, a mediocre25-30 pound male (according the the guide), bull-dogged me for about 15minutes before he made a couple of quick runs back and forth under theboat. Little did I know that he managed to wrap the anchor line whilehe was dashing back and forth. Twenty minutes later I managed to landboth the fish and the anchor line! Now my nine weight hollow-builtbamboo rod is due for some serious down time in the shop, removing arather pronounced set from the mid-section! The next King, a small buttough 15 pounder, came on a cheap-o blank plastic (read grap&%$te) rod.Soon I repented and went back to the bent bamboo. But alas, my sinswith the graphite rod found me out. No more Kings..... just a fewjacks.Exploring Spruce Creek off of the Skwentna River introduced meto what real wilderness can be. No bears, but lots of tracks. NativeAlaskan house pits several hundred years old boggled the mind. Imagineliving through the harsh Alaskan winters as nomadic peoples did 600years ago. Caught the nicest grayling of the trip there, about 15".Nailed quite a few little rainbows, but most of the nicer fish seemed tohave followed the King Salmon further upstream.I'd never seen a glacial river until we landed the bush plane onthe Skwentna. It's silty rolling waters reminded me of the lowerMississippi River, only a little more narrow and shallow. When ourhosts at Talstar lodge told me that wasn't where we would be fishing Iwas relieved. The Talachulitna River flows into the Swentna a couplamiles upstream from the canyon section where we landed the plane. Itsquietness and beauty contrasts quite well with the brute strength of theSkwentna. Though we only fished the lower 3 or 4 miles, we learned agreat deal about its importance to Alaskan travel. The Iditarod trailskirts its banks for several miles, and is a major route for wintertransportation.Four days on the Talachulitna, the Skwentna, and Spruce Creekwas enough to whet our appetites for the second leg of the trip. Wespent the next four days on the Kenai and Russian Rivers (mostly theRussian). Big rainbows came readily to a confirmed dead drift nymphfisherman. Caught my biggest rainbow to date, a 26 incher. Came backthe next day, and caught another nearly as large. We caught sight ofour only bear of the trip, a big black male, across the Russian fromus. I was glad he wasn't as interested in me as I was in him! Soonafter he made his way downstream I realized that I had to go hisdirection to get back to camp. A few anxious moments were all thatresulted.On our way back north we stopped for lunch at Portage Glacier.Anyone planning to visit Alaska should make room on the itinerary forthat side trip. We don't get many icebergs here in Louisiana, and thatalone makes the trip worthwhile.The final leg of our trip found us at Willow Creek, about 75miles north of Anchorage. I spent the first night there with a guide,and soon learned that even a guide is no guarantee of catching fish. Ionly managed one small rainbow that first night, though I didaccidentally hook into two Kings. It's hard to hold a 25+ lb. fish on a5 weight with 4x tippet. Neither King was in any danger of beinglanded. Popped them off as quickly as possible since the season hadjust closed.Last Wednesday, three inexperienced guys rented a cataraft.None of us had ever done any real rowing, and had NO business on thatriver. An eight mile float turned into the adventures of Gilligan'sIsland. Three miles into the trip, a major sweeper cost us one oar. Aminor log jam downstream found us in real danger. When we finally gotthe boat to a midstream gravel bar, we yelled at the next raft to callour outfitters and get us some help. Thank goodness we had sense enoughto pack dry clothes and plenty of food and drinks. We huddled on theisland all afternoon, and were finally rowed home by a young man who hadpreviously paddled a canoe from New York City to Nome. In defense ofthe outfitter, they didn't know that upstream rains had caused the creekto rise considerably overnight. But they should have checked it outbefore letting us on those waters.As we left Anchorage Friday morning the temperature was 51*F. Buythe time we got to Dallas-Ft. Worth, it was 101. What a welcome back tothe South, huh?The good news: The Airflo Delta Taper line that Bob Perry suppliedme with performed flawlessly. On my 5 weight bamboo, it handledeverything from size 2 egg-sucking leeches to size 16 CDC and elk. Itfloats high, mends well, and seems to cast itself.The better news: I've got the 9 weight straightened out and readyto go again.The best news, my wife and daughter were waiting for me at theairport, the most appealing sight of the entire trip. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jul 18 12:03:27 2000 e6IH3QG13941 Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:03:22 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Climax lines rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: The Climax Double wt lines are a couple of years old now. linesI bragged about a few days ago. You might want to check with him for moreinformation. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Jul 18 12:08:18 2000 e6IH8IG14307 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF0242DE006A; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:08:18 -0500 Subject: payne 101 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFF0B0.99CCA820" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFF0B0.99CCA820 Hello List members, to rod... so which is the preferred taper? a or b... 0 .063 .057 10 .108 .101 20 .136 .13125 .157 .14530 .165 .15535 .175 .16940 .187 .18045 .213 .19850 .226 .21855 .242 .23260 .258 .24865 .280 .26770 .301 .28575 .330 .33480 .358 .35885 .358 .38290 .358 .382 tiaBrad ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFF0B0.99CCA820 Hello List members, I was in the process of setting the forms for a two sources of the taper, I realize that rods change= b... .131 .145 .180 .198 .218 .232 .248 .285 .334 .358 .382 .382 tiaBrad ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFF0B0.99CCA820-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Jul 18 13:07:15 2000 e6II7EG16026 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Stresscurves Since I've a iMac at home, and are left out in the cold with no taperprogram to run on it, I have a math question.... I've made a spreadsheet that convert inch to mm and divide in 2 (planningform settings), it works great. But the program also has a option to makegraphs. What is the formula to calculate stress from the dimensions? TIAdanny-------Work from tklein@amgen.com Tue Jul 18 13:11:21 2000 e6IIBKG16230 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) "'fbcwin@3g.quik.com'" Subject: RE: Trip Report: Alaska (kinda long) Great report Harry! Alaska is one of those places everybody needs to visitat least once in their life. You're comment about 2am dusk and 4am dawn doesn't point out the factthatit never actually gets any darker than dusk during that 2 hour window whenthe sun is down! I spent six weeks in Alaska a few years back and went trough some of thewildest mood swings I've ever experienced due to the long days. I'd go 3 or4 days without sleep (just because it never really comes to mind to go tosleep when it's still light). Over that time, my attitude would get worseand worse until I was ready to cancel the trip and come home. Finally, I'dcrash and burn for 12 hours or so, wake up to the most beautiful scenery I'dever seen, and swear that I just might never go home again! I cycled likethat for 2 or 3 weeks before I realized what was going on and made sure Igot at least a nap every single day. Let me add one last quick funny story: I drove a pickup with a shell on it when I took my trip. When I decided itwas time to go home, I took off driving south and just drove as far aspossible between rests. I clearly remember how excited I was the first nightin six weeks that it was actually DARK when I went to sleep. I pulled off ata rest stop in the middle of nowhere in Northern Idaho and spent my normalhalf hour unloading everything from the back of my truck (camping, fishing,and backpacking gear as well as a foldable frame sea kayak and itsassociated accessories!), and setting up the wooden supports that convertedit into my bed. I climbed in, eager to finally get a dark nights sleep. As I rolled onto my back to look out the skylight on my shell, I was greeted me see while I unloaded the truck! All I could do was laugh hysterically tomyself. (damn thing kept me awake till dawn) Sorry for the off-topic, but I couldn't resist sharing.---Tim ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@3g.quik.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 11:02 AM Subject: Trip Report: Alaska (kinda long) My first shot at a trip report, so bear with me: According to our pilot, almost no one flies into Anchorage on aclear day. Soaring over the snow-covered mountains of Alberta andBritish Columbia rewarded us with rare views, scores of miles in everydirection. from above, the appeal of the Alaskan Peninsula was almostenough to make us change our plans before we ever touched Alaskan soil.Bright sunshine at 10pm; dusk at 2am, dawn at 4am; takes somegetting used to. The need for sleep never crossed my mind until thethird day, when I crashed and slept away a good afternoon's fishing.King Salmon were never meant to be caught on a fly rod,especially one made of bamboo. My first Talachulitna King, a mediocre25-30 pound male (according the the guide), bull-dogged me for about 15minutes before he made a couple of quick runs back and forth under theboat. Little did I know that he managed to wrap the anchor line whilehe was dashing back and forth. Twenty minutes later I managed to landboth the fish and the anchor line! Now my nine weight hollow-builtbamboo rod is due for some serious down time in the shop, removing arather pronounced set from the mid-section! The next King, a small buttough 15 pounder, came on a cheap-o blank plastic (read grap&%$te) rod.Soon I repented and went back to the bent bamboo. But alas, my sinswith the graphite rod found me out. No more Kings..... just a fewjacks.Exploring Spruce Creek off of the Skwentna River introduced meto what real wilderness can be. No bears, but lots of tracks. NativeAlaskan house pits several hundred years old boggled the mind. Imagineliving through the harsh Alaskan winters as nomadic peoples did 600years ago. Caught the nicest grayling of the trip there, about 15".Nailed quite a few little rainbows, but most of the nicer fish seemed tohave followed the King Salmon further upstream.I'd never seen a glacial river until we landed the bush plane onthe Skwentna. It's silty rolling waters reminded me of the lowerMississippi River, only a little more narrow and shallow. When ourhosts at Talstar lodge told me that wasn't where we would be fishing Iwas relieved. The Talachulitna River flows into the Swentna a couplamiles upstream from the canyon section where we landed the plane. Itsquietness and beauty contrasts quite well with the brute strength of theSkwentna. Though we only fished the lower 3 or 4 miles, we learned agreat deal about its importance to Alaskan travel. The Iditarod trailskirts its banks for several miles, and is a major route for wintertransportation.Four days on the Talachulitna, the Skwentna, and Spruce Creekwas enough to whet our appetites for the second leg of the trip. Wespent the next four days on the Kenai and Russian Rivers (mostly theRussian). Big rainbows came readily to a confirmed dead drift nymphfisherman. Caught my biggest rainbow to date, a 26 incher. Came backthe next day, and caught another nearly as large. We caught sight ofour only bear of the trip, a big black male, across the Russian fromus. I was glad he wasn't as interested in me as I was in him! Soonafter he made his way downstream I realized that I had to go hisdirection to get back to camp. A few anxious moments were all thatresulted.On our way back north we stopped for lunch at Portage Glacier.Anyone planning to visit Alaska should make room on the itinerary forthat side trip. We don't get many icebergs here in Louisiana, and thatalone makes the trip worthwhile.The final leg of our trip found us at Willow Creek, about 75miles north of Anchorage. I spent the first night there with a guide,and soon learned that even a guide is no guarantee of catching fish. Ionly managed one small rainbow that first night, though I didaccidentally hook into two Kings. It's hard to hold a 25+ lb. fish on a5 weight with 4x tippet. Neither King was in any danger of beinglanded. Popped them off as quickly as possible since the season hadjust closed.Last Wednesday, three inexperienced guys rented a cataraft.None of us had ever done any real rowing, and had NO business on thatriver. An eight mile float turned into the adventures of Gilligan'sIsland. Three miles into the trip, a major sweeper cost us one oar. Aminor log jam downstream found us in real danger. When we finally gotthe boat to a midstream gravel bar, we yelled at the next raft to callour outfitters and get us some help. Thank goodness we had sense enoughto pack dry clothes and plenty of food and drinks. We huddled on theisland all afternoon, and were finally rowed home by a young man who hadpreviously paddled a canoe from New York City to Nome. In defense ofthe outfitter, they didn't know that upstream rains had caused the creekto rise considerably overnight. But they should have checked it outbefore letting us on those waters.As we left Anchorage Friday morning the temperature was 51*F. Buythe time we got to Dallas-Ft. Worth, it was 101. What a welcome back tothe South, huh?The good news: The Airflo Delta Taper line that Bob Perry suppliedme with performed flawlessly. On my 5 weight bamboo, it handledeverything from size 2 egg-sucking leeches to size 16 CDC and elk. Itfloats high, mends well, and seems to cast itself.The better news: I've got the 9 weight straightened out and readyto go again.The best news, my wife and daughter were waiting for me at theairport, the most appealing sight of the entire trip. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jul 18 13:46:19 2000 e6IIkJG17315 SMTPSVC;Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:45:49 -0700 Subject: Renzetti Rod Lathe Has anyone on the list tried Renzetti's Rod Lathe? Looks interesting. Wouldappreciate your input before or if I jump off the deep-end. Seems a littlepricey but what the hay, its only money...You can check it out at theirwebsite under TOOLS if you haven't seen it. http://www.renzetti.com/ Don SchneiderWoodinville, WAhomessold@msn.com from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Jul 18 13:54:43 2000 e6IIsgG17765 Subject: Re: Trip Report: Alaska (kinda long) Harry,The next time you go.TAKE ME WITH YOU !!Joe from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Jul 18 14:07:36 2000 e6IJ7ZG18338 Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:07:28 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Stresscurves Rodmakers Bill, I have tryed everything to get the HexRod to work on my mac, butit did not run. I know other mac users have the same problem.... I know I can use Frank`s program, but then I have to be online.... regardsdanny-------Work From: "Lamberson, William R." Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:20:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Stresscurves There are some taper programs that run on Macs. Check the archives. Also,you can run Frank's program from the web page. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: Stresscurves Since I've a iMac at home, and are left out in the cold with no taperprogram to run on it, I have a math question.... I've made a spreadsheet that convert inch to mm and divide in 2 (planningform settings), it works great. But the program also has a option to makegraphs. What is the formula to calculate stress from the dimensions? TIAdanny------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Jul 18 14:15:01 2000 e6IJF0G18722 Subject: Re: PHY needs. Organization: GOULD boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF0B1.B8A71AE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF0B1.B8A71AE0 Yes you're right Shawn, Corticelli antique gold was #3715.Ray Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 3:31 AMSubject: Re: PHY needs. I believe the silk used on the original PHY's was Belding =Corticelli, Antique Gold. I can't remember the color # off hand but I = As far as a source, try Robert Milardo here on the list, he = I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has some bad wraps. I need to find =the color to match. This is an almost golden brown. I tried Pearsalls =Antique Gold, with several different color preservers, but nothing quite =matched. Does anyone know what was used, or have any of the original =thread (or suitable substitue) that they would be willing to sell. = ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF0B1.B8A71AE0 Yes you're right Shawn, Corticelli = #3715.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Shawn Pineo Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 = AMSubject: Re: PHY needs. I = Gold. I can't remember the color # off hand but I think it was 3715 ?? = = Pearsalls Antique Gold, with several different color preservers, but = original thread (or suitable substitue) that they would be willing = ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF0B1.B8A71AE0-- from johanyga@online.no Tue Jul 18 16:25:06 2000 e6ILP4G22856 (MET DST) Subject: Creusevaut 8'3'' boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF10D.FF62D800" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF10D.FF62D800 Ingvar, Carsten, Shawn and others interested in the Powerplus Creusevaut =taper. The measurements are taken over varnish. 1 .0895 .10210 .12015 .13620 .14725 .15930 .17435 .19040 .20745 .22050 .23355 .26060 .27465 .28270 .29075 .29980 .30385 .31187 .316 Tip lenght: 52''Butt lenght: 47'' Guides from tip down:5.2512192633.54149576574 regards,Johan ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF10D.FF62D800 Ingvar, Carsten, Shawn and others = varnish. .089 .102 .120 .136 .147 .159 .174 .190 .207 .220 .233 .260 .274 .282 .290 .299 .303 .311 .316 52'' Guides from tip down: 12192633.54149576574 regards,Johan ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF10D.FF62D800-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jul 18 17:02:56 2000 e6IM2tG23943 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: PHY needs. Silk Thread boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFF0C9.1C42DD20"Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFF0C9.1C42DD20 Hi Bob, I have dozens of different tans, browns and antique gold colors... if youcould mail me a sample or scan me the underside of a wrap that you haveremoved, I'll see if I can try to match it. My silk chart only lists about40 colors, but I have hundreds of one of a kind spools of vintage and loadsof new silk thread. If you are looking for the Gudebrod #832, I have that in stock in bothvintage thread and in new stock. Email me if I can help you. Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 10:31 PM Subject: PHY needs. I have a PHY Special, 3/2 that has some bad wraps. I need to find thecolor to match. This is an almost golden brown. I tried Pearsalls AntiqueGold, with several different color preservers, but nothing quite matched.Does anyone know what was used, or have any of the original thread (orsuitable substitue) that they would be willing to sell. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFF0C9.1C42DD20 Bob, dozens of different tans, browns and antique gold colors... if you could = a sample or scan me the underside of a wrap that you have removed, I'll = can try to match it. My silk chart only lists about 40 colors, but I = hundreds of one of a kind spools of vintage and loads of new silk = are looking for the Gudebrod #832, I have that in stock in both vintage = and in new stock. me if I can help you. Darrellwww.vfish.net NunleySent: Monday, July 17, 2000 10:31 List ServeSubject: PHY needs. Pearsalls Antique Gold, with several different color preservers, but = sell. Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BFF0C9.1C42DD20-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jul 18 17:24:04 2000 e6IMO4G24678 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Climax lines Rodmakers Importance: Normal I have the 4/5 line I bought 2-3 years ago. I haven't fished it enough tocomment, sorry. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Climax lines That's not a bad idea, is it? Where did you see it ? Web site ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Climax lines I was just reading some fishing gear propaganda specificaly relating toClimax lines and I noticed they have a DT line with two different lineweights on the same line. Sounds interesting. Anybody used one of these? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. "- Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back') /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 18 17:24:08 2000 e6IMO6G24683 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:23:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Trip Report: Alaska (kinda long) Great tale Harry ! I now recall Lee Wulff talking about turning his rodover, when fighting such huge fish, just to avoid putting a set in thoselittle 6' rods he fished ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Trip Report: Alaska (kinda long) My first shot at a trip report, so bear with me: According to our pilot, almost no one flies into Anchorage on aclear day. Soaring over the snow-covered mountains of Alberta andBritish Columbia rewarded us with rare views, scores of miles in everydirection. from above, the appeal of the Alaskan Peninsula was almostenough to make us change our plans before we ever touched Alaskan soil.Bright sunshine at 10pm; dusk at 2am, dawn at 4am; takes somegetting used to. The need for sleep never crossed my mind until thethird day, when I crashed and slept away a good afternoon's fishing.King Salmon were never meant to be caught on a fly rod,especially one made of bamboo. My first Talachulitna King, a mediocre25-30 pound male (according the the guide), bull-dogged me for about 15minutes before he made a couple of quick runs back and forth under theboat. Little did I know that he managed to wrap the anchor line whilehe was dashing back and forth. Twenty minutes later I managed to landboth the fish and the anchor line! Now my nine weight hollow-builtbamboo rod is due for some serious down time in the shop, removing arather pronounced set from the mid-section! The next King, a small buttough 15 pounder, came on a cheap-o blank plastic (read grap&%$te) rod.Soon I repented and went back to the bent bamboo. But alas, my sinswith the graphite rod found me out. No more Kings..... just a fewjacks.Exploring Spruce Creek off of the Skwentna River introduced meto what real wilderness can be. No bears, but lots of tracks. NativeAlaskan house pits several hundred years old boggled the mind. Imagineliving through the harsh Alaskan winters as nomadic peoples did 600years ago. Caught the nicest grayling of the trip there, about 15".Nailed quite a few little rainbows, but most of the nicer fish seemed tohave followed the King Salmon further upstream.I'd never seen a glacial river until we landed the bush plane onthe Skwentna. It's silty rolling waters reminded me of the lowerMississippi River, only a little more narrow and shallow. When ourhosts at Talstar lodge told me that wasn't where we would be fishing Iwas relieved. The Talachulitna River flows into the Swentna a couplamiles upstream from the canyon section where we landed the plane. Itsquietness and beauty contrasts quite well with the brute strength of theSkwentna. Though we only fished the lower 3 or 4 miles, we learned agreat deal about its importance to Alaskan travel. The Iditarod trailskirts its banks for several miles, and is a major route for wintertransportation.Four days on the Talachulitna, the Skwentna, and Spruce Creekwas enough to whet our appetites for the second leg of the trip. Wespent the next four days on the Kenai and Russian Rivers (mostly theRussian). Big rainbows came readily to a confirmed dead drift nymphfisherman. Caught my biggest rainbow to date, a 26 incher. Came backthe next day, and caught another nearly as large. We caught sight ofour only bear of the trip, a big black male, across the Russian fromus. I was glad he wasn't as interested in me as I was in him! Soonafter he made his way downstream I realized that I had to go hisdirection to get back to camp. A few anxious moments were all thatresulted.On our way back north we stopped for lunch at Portage Glacier.Anyone planning to visit Alaska should make room on the itinerary forthat side trip. We don't get many icebergs here in Louisiana, and thatalone makes the trip worthwhile.The final leg of our trip found us at Willow Creek, about 75miles north of Anchorage. I spent the first night there with a guide,and soon learned that even a guide is no guarantee of catching fish. Ionly managed one small rainbow that first night, though I didaccidentally hook into two Kings. It's hard to hold a 25+ lb. fish on a5 weight with 4x tippet. Neither King was in any danger of beinglanded. Popped them off as quickly as possible since the season hadjust closed.Last Wednesday, three inexperienced guys rented a cataraft.None of us had ever done any real rowing, and had NO business on thatriver. An eight mile float turned into the adventures of Gilligan'sIsland. Three miles into the trip, a major sweeper cost us one oar. Aminor log jam downstream found us in real danger. When we finally gotthe boat to a midstream gravel bar, we yelled at the next raft to callour outfitters and get us some help. Thank goodness we had sense enoughto pack dry clothes and plenty of food and drinks. We huddled on theisland all afternoon, and were finally rowed home by a young man who hadpreviously paddled a canoe from New York City to Nome. In defense ofthe outfitter, they didn't know that upstream rains had caused the creekto rise considerably overnight. But they should have checked it outbefore letting us on those waters.As we left Anchorage Friday morning the temperature was 51*F. Buythe time we got to Dallas-Ft. Worth, it was 101. What a welcome back tothe South, huh?The good news: The Airflo Delta Taper line that Bob Perry suppliedme with performed flawlessly. On my 5 weight bamboo, it handledeverything from size 2 egg-sucking leeches to size 16 CDC and elk. Itfloats high, mends well, and seems to cast itself.The better news: I've got the 9 weight straightened out and readyto go again.The best news, my wife and daughter were waiting for me at theairport, the most appealing sight of the entire trip. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jul 18 17:48:33 2000 e6IMmWG25615 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Gudebrods products Importance: Normal You can find the Gudebrod CP and varnish here... look under RODMAKINGSUPPLIES or search for Gudebrod... http://www.vfish.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Sv: Gudebrods products As to who carries it, well, I could not get it here in Europe,so I bought it from Gudebrods. The stuff is waterbased, easy to work with and dries fairlyquick - an turns stonehard. I really like the stuff, and as I wrote,this stuff is really good at preserving colour. Could it be somekind of water based epoxy? The colour preserver is definately not the usual thing, no smellof solvents. regards,carsten from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jul 18 18:13:19 2000 e6INDIG26083 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:08:07 -0500 Subject: LONG!!!! Re: Stress curves boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFF0E3.34A60080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFF0E3.34A60080 Danny,This is pretty accurate for doing what you want to do. It is long =and drawn out, so you may want to download something else, like Bruce =Conners Program. I think it is on rodmakers page also, but this takes a =lot of time and a couple of bottles of asprin to get through... at least =it does for my old brain. HOPEFULLY, someone on the list has a simpler =way for you to do this, but if not, this will do the trick.This is how to do it, the best I can explain. The formula you want =is at theend of this explanation, but all before it, you will need to do in order =to have the right numbers to plug into the formula.To figure the moments for a rod is a long drawn out process, but is = First, you have to figure your tip impact factor (TIP). that is =simple. Just use the weight of the optimal amount of line to be cast =(Wl), in ounces, and add it by the weight of the tip top (Wtt), in =ounces and multiply by a constant impact factor of 4. formula is =(Wtt + Wl)*4 =3D TIP (in/ounces)Next you have to know your moments caused by the line and the tip =top at each station. This is done by multiplying the TIP by the station =number in Inches. For example, station 40=94 moment is40*TIP=3DMoment in In/Oz.Next you must determine the Moments caused by the line in the =guides. This is pretty straightforward and is done by multiplying the =weight of the line per in (Wl/in) by the station number (N) to get the = Wl/in * N =3D MomentNext you need to add in the moments caused by the weight of the guides =andvarnish. The difference in this from rod to rod is so slight that it is =easier to just use a constant chart for these. Here is what I use.Moments for Varnish and Guides0=94 05=94 .0510=94 .1115=94 .2220=94 .32 30=94 1.1535=94 1.9040=94 2.5045=94 3.7550=94 4.9555=94 6.8060=94 8.5565=94 11.7570=94 13.9075=94 17.7580=94 21.75 These aren=92t exact by any means, but like I said, they=92re pretty =close, and the best I could come up with for what I use, and the numer =of coats that I put on a rod. OK, one last moment to calculate, and =that is the ferrule moment (Mf). This will only effect the part of the =rod below the ferrule station, so it doesn=92t have to be done for the =entire length of the rod. You find your ferrule station, lets say your =working on a 7=92rod so the ferrule is located at 42.5=94 (Fs), then =lets say the first station you want to calculate is for 45=94 (S), and =your ferrule weighs 0.20 ounces (Wf), then you subract ferrule location = from station in inches and multiply by ferrule weight to get the moment =in Inch/Ounces. Formula is (S-Fs)*.20 =3D Moment in in/oz.One last one, and this one is a tough one. You have to calculate the =moments for the bamboo itself, as all bamboo above a given station, =creates stress on that station. To do this, you have to know the Length =of the section you are figuring weight on, the cross sectional area on =both ends of the section and the weight of bamboo. This formula is =straight out of the Garrison Book. H will be the length of the section, =.668 will be a constant, that is the typical weight of a cubic inch of =bamboo, A will be the cross sectional area of the larger endof the section, and A1 will be the cross sectional area of the smaller =end of the section. Since you know the weigh it s constant, then you =can figure the weight of the section by multiplying the length of the =section (Ls) divided by 3, multiplying that by the weight constant of =.668, then multiplying this by the Cross sectional area of the large =end, plus the cross sectional area of the small end, plus by the square =root of A*A1.I can=92t do a square root sign on this thing, but the formula for this =part of theequation is ((Ls/3) * .668) x (A+A1+(the square root of A*A1)) =3D =weight of section , but, this isn=92t the end of finding the moments for =the section. All that gives you is the weight in ounces of the section. =According to the garrison book, this would be done in 10=94segments =then simply extrapolate the moments for the 5" stations in between, but =you need to find the Center of Gravity for each segment (CG) to =determine these moments. In order to do that, use thefollowing formula ((Ls/4 * ((A+ 2* {the square root of A*A1} + 3*A1) / =(A + {square root of A*A1 + A1)) =3D CG . Now, for each segment, add =the calculated weight (Ws) in ounces multiplied by the Center of Gravity =(CG) times the constant impact factor of 4 to get the resulting moments =at each station. Formula is Ws*CG*4 =3D MomentOK, now you have all the moments at each station, simply add =together themoments for each corresponding station and you have the total Moments =along the length of the rod.Now you can plug that into the formula for diameter and stress. =Since you are trying to figure stress, then stress will be the unknown =variable, and the moments and diameter will be your knowns. You should =be able to write a spreadsheet formula for calculating this and simply =type your known variables in and come up with the stress in inch ounces = Here is the formula you want to plug in to.... Variables: d =3D diameterM =3D Momentf =3D stress d =3D (the cube root of M / .120) * f Sounds complicated and involved and yes it is, but if you write these =into a spreadsheet, and have a good scientific calculator handy, it =won=92t be too bad. Good Luck,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stresscurves Bill, I have tryed everything to get the HexRod to work on my mac, butit did not run. I know other mac users have the same problem.... I know I can use Frank`s program, but then I have to be online.... regardsdanny-------Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: "Lamberson, William R." Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:20:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Stresscurves There are some taper programs that run on Macs. Check the archives. =Also,you can run Frank's program from the web page. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: Stresscurves Since I've a iMac at home, and are left out in the cold with no taperprogram to run on it, I have a math question.... I've made a spreadsheet that convert inch to mm and divide in 2 =(planningform settings), it works great. But the program also has a option to =makegraphs. What is the formula to calculate stress from the dimensions? TIAdanny-------> Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFF0E3.34A60080 Danny, takes a lot of time and a couple of bottles of asprin to get through... = all before it, you will need to do in order to have the right = a rod is a long drawn out process, but is necessary for figuring the = (Wl), in ounces, and add it by the weight of the tip = (Wtt), in ounces and multiply by a constant impact = know = 40*TIP=3DMoment in pretty straightforward and is done by multiplying the weight of the line = (Wl/in) by the station number(N) to = in = from rod to rod is so slight that it is easier to just use a constant = 21.75 = said, they’re pretty close, and the best I could come up with for = to calculate, and that is the ferrule moment = your ferrule station, lets say your working on a 7’rod so the = located at 42.5” (Fs), then lets say the first = you want to calculate is for 45” (S), and your = weighs 0.20 ounces (Wf), then you subract ferrule = have to calculate the moments for the bamboo itself, as all bamboo above = Length of the section you are figuring weight on, the cross sectional = = cubic inch of bamboo, A will be the cross sectional = larger endof the section, and A1 will be the 3, multiplying that by the weight constant of .668, = multiplying this by the Cross sectional area of the large end, plus the = on = thing, but the formula for this part of theequation is = .668) x (A+A1+(the square root of A*A1)) =3D weight of section = garrison book, this would be done in 10”segments then simply = the moments for the 5" stations in between, but you need to find = of Gravity for each segment (CG) to determine * ((A+ 2* {the square root of A*A1} + 3*A1) / (A + {square root of A*A1 = (CG) times the constant impact factor of = = each station, simply add together themoments for each corresponding= = this and simply type your known variables in and come up with the stress = to plug in to.... f =3D stress (the cube root of M / .120) * f Sounds complicated and involved and yes it is, but if you write = a spreadsheet, and have a good scientific calculator handy, it = too bad. Good Luck,Bob -----Original Message-----From: = <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= -= <danny.twang@porsgrunnsda= programs = = ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFF0E3.34A60080-- from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue Jul 18 19:43:27 2000 e6J0hQG27495 Subject: Fwd: Pezon and Micheal (taper) boundary="part1_f9.f7aef8.26a653a6_boundary" --part1_f9.f7aef8.26a653a6_boundary Hello. I'm a little behind on my emails (Don't you enjoy coming home to 200 emails? :.p) Pezon & Michel Super Parabolic Progressive PPP7 foot 7 inches Line 5/6Butt Length 39.5"Tip Length 53"Node 3x3 Butt0 .2405 .24010 .24915 .25620 .26225 .26430 .268 Tip0 .0825 .09510 .12015 .13220 .14525 .16030 .17635 .18940 .20545 .21450 .232 Guide SpacingTip 0 - 3.5" - 9.5" - 16" - 23.25" - 30.75" - 39.5" - 48.75 - Ferrule(52")Butt Ferrule (0) - 7" - 17" (stripper) - 29" (winding check) Enjoy! Mark Mark C. Lee, MDRochester, MN --part1_f9.f7aef8.26a653a6_boundary Jul 2000 18:40:35 -0400 2000 18:40:10 -0400 with ESMTP id QAA67712 Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:40:09 -0600 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id QAA28274 Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:40:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Pezon and Micheal I would appreciate the taper of this Pezon as well. They are a finecasting rod! David Parker On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Shawn, I recently studied two parabolics side-by-side. The first rod was the Pezon 7'7" super parabolic progressive PPP for line size 5/6. This rod was built with a two piece staggered ferrule design. I compared it to a payne 7'9" parabolic in the heavier version (4oz - 6wt). This rod was a 2 piece unstaggered ferrule. Although the Payne was a beautiful rod, I must admit that I really enjoyed casting this pezon more. I might have sent out the taper the last time we talked on rodmakers about staggered ferrules, but if your interested, I'll dig it up and post it again. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN --part1_f9.f7aef8.26a653a6_boundary-- from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Tue Jul 18 20:32:29 2000 e6J1WSG28356 Subject: Re: Trip Report: Alaska (kinda long) Congrats to you Harry for getting to Alaska ! Was it your first time? I went in '97 for ten days , lived out of a backback and a duffle bag,fished the Keani, and two trips to the ocean ,one from Seward and one from Homer, Had a great time ,sounds like you did too! Next time be sure you duffle can handle an extra 260lbs or so (Leave the zipper open a bit so I can breathe!) Jim FlinchbaughNW Montana from tjpacker@uswest.net Tue Jul 18 20:44:57 2000 e6J1iuG28607 Subject: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Importance: Normal Hi All, After much research I have decided to jump into this rod building adventure.So first things first I guess I need some tools. I have a friend that worksat metal fabrication shop, that things he can build a steel planing form andpossibly a Garrison style binding machine. His one request was that Iprovide some to scale blue prints to work from. I have found several roughhand sketches of the two devices, however I would like something a littlemore detailed. Does anyone have detailed drawings/blue prints of the formor the binder? If not can anyone recommend a good source. Thank You (in advance), Todd from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 18 20:51:24 2000 e6J1pNG28796 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: an idea Guys,just mailed off a rod a week ago and I have been working on mylatest rod, a 2 wt 6'3" 3pc Sir D (SWEEEEEET) and for a while now I havebeen trying to think of a use for the shavings we all love to produceand suddenly it came to me! How about using it as packing material forshipping our valuable treasures all over the world?? Surely would haveworked as well as the newspaper and foam popcorn I have used before. Iwould love to hear your ideas, seems like a waste to compost so much ofa beautiful thing.I was also wondering if the bamboo shavings would have anyvalue as a moth deterrent much like cedar??Perhaps I could make pillows from them, think of the sweetdreams and the even sweeter scent of flamed bamboo shavings....how abouta perfume scent..naaa!Although my wife surprised me with a new line of make-up that just cameout called BAMBOO by Revlon I think? What a anniversary gift for themisses?Just some ramblings of a man with a 103 degree temperature! Bearwith me, I'll be normal once I get this flu purged from my body! Howmany times do you have to puke, how much do you have to sweat, to purgethis plague?? Perhaps I should consider getting Harry up here to performan exorcism??Must go now... need rest... one more tip then I am ready toglue. Still trying to decide whether to try Titebond PU glue on this rodor stick with Urac?? Decisions, decisions!!Shawn ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 18 21:00:46 2000 e6J20jG29013 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Wed, 19 Jul 2000 02:00:41 +0000 Subject: Re: an idea Shawn, I'm afraid you'll never be normal. You are a rodmaker. 'Nuff said! Dennis Shawn Pineo wrote: Guys,just mailed off a rod a week ago and I have been working on mylatest rod, a 2 wt 6'3" 3pc Sir D (SWEEEEEET) and for a while now I havebeen trying to think of a use for the shavings we all love to produceand suddenly it came to me! How about using it as packing material forshipping our valuable treasures all over the world?? Surely would haveworked as well as the newspaper and foam popcorn I have used before. Iwould love to hear your ideas, seems like a waste to compost so much ofa beautiful thing.I was also wondering if the bamboo shavings would have anyvalue as a moth deterrent much like cedar??Perhaps I could make pillows from them, think of the sweetdreams and the even sweeter scent of flamed bamboo shavings....howabouta perfume scent..naaa!Although my wife surprised me with a new line of make-up that just cameout called BAMBOO by Revlon I think? What a anniversary gift for themisses?Just some ramblings of a man with a 103 degree temperature! Bearwith me, I'll be normal once I get this flu purged from my body! Howmany times do you have to puke, how much do you have to sweat, to purgethis plague?? Perhaps I should consider getting Harry up here to performan exorcism??Must go now... need rest... one more tip then I am ready toglue. Still trying to decide whether to try Titebond PU glue on this rodor stick with Urac?? Decisions, decisions!!Shawn ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Jul 18 21:25:33 2000 e6J2PXG29557 Subject: Re: an idea Shawn,RE: bamboo as packing material... I've used it many times. (also makes good a fire starter)RE: bamboo as an aphrodisiac ... many times I've flamed bamboo late at night, when the woman sits up in bed and yells, "put down that torch and come to bed!"RE: how many times do you have to puke ... unknown, but tequila or single malt makes it an adventure!Mike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 18 22:29:59 2000 e6J3TwG00553 20:29:58 PDT Subject: Re: payne 101 my 101 is diff yet. from where i sit the two rodtapers i see are totally diff rods. my source is fromthe maurer/elser book, i trust those tapers. my handwritten, passed to me from my mentor tapers agree veryclosely with them also. timothy --- Bradley Love wrote:Hello List members, I was in the process of setting the forms for a set of Payne 101's. I noticed a small differencebetween the two sources of the taper, I realize that rods change from rod to rod... so which is the preferred taper? a or b... taper a taper b 0 .063 .0575 .095 .091 10 .108 .10115 .123 .116 20 .136 .13125 .157 .14530 .165 .15535 .175 .16940 .187 .18045 .213 .19850 .226 .21855 .242 .23260 .258 .24865 .280 .26770 .301 .28575 .330 .33480 .358 .35885 .358 .38290 .358 .382 tiaBrad ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Tue Jul 18 22:58:41 2000 e6J3weG01008 Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine 0100,0100,0100Todd, if you visit the rodmakersmain page you will find links to the info you need. As for the planing form, I found Tom Penrose's site to be the most clear for my thought process. I simply printed his web page out and now have a hard copy to take to the shop, Jack Howells book, The lovely Reed has pretty good plans for the binder. I am also new at this and am about half way through my forms now and have started collecting parts for the binder, Hang around here and you'l find out all you need to know! Good luck and welcome aboard. Jim Flinchbaugh, NW Montana from jallaros@comv.es Wed Jul 19 03:39:02 2000 e6J8d1G03879 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:38:53 +0200User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Subject: Re: Stresscurves Hi Danny: I have tryed everything to get the HexRod to work on my mac, butit did not run. I know other mac users have the same problem.... I have an imac too. I tryed all versions of hexrod from archives, andseems that they work. hexrod.xls tapers.wk1 I tryed them with M. Excel 5.0a and it works ok with the iMac. Waynes hexrod, seems to work ok with the iMac and virtual Pc 3.0. But first,i have to learn how to use the hexrod (actually i am trying to understand it:-) PS: You know, i am learning hexrod. I can open all of them, and i tryingchanging some during my learning process, and i think that they work. But ithink that we need some help about using hexrod.xls :-). from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jul 19 07:53:00 2000 e6JCr0G06430 Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:52:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Todd,I don't mean to belittle your machinist friend, but be very sure heknows what he is getting into in building forms. Several people on this listover the years have shared how much trouble thier machinist friends havehad ingetting forms made. I've never tried having a machinist make forms, so I'monlyrepeating what others have said. The kind of accuracy we need in makinggoodforms requires many hours of set-up time for machinists.Binders aren't nearly as dimension critical, so I'll guess that heshould have no problems there. Harry Boyd Todd J Packer wrote: Hi All, I have a friend that works at metal fabrication shop, that things he canbuild a steel planing form and possibly a Garrison style binding machine. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jul 19 07:56:53 2000 e6JCuqG06654 Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:56:47 -0700 Subject: Re: an idea Shawn,If the fishing is good nearby, just send me a plane ticket. All Icharge for my services is one or two good fishing trips!!Harry PS - Bamboo shaving make excellent packing material Shawn Pineo wrote: Perhaps I should consider getting Harry up here to performan exorcism?? from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Jul 19 08:20:42 2000 e6JDKfG07725 Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:20:42 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Todd - You are really wasting your money if you go to a machinist to builda Garrison- style binder. With a little ingenuity (e.g., use cup hooks forthe support cradles, make your own tensioners with washers and springs)youcan build a perfectly serviceable Garrison binder yourself for under $20. -----Original Message-----From: Todd J Packer [SMTP:tjpacker@uswest.net]Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 9:48 PM Subject: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and BindingMachine Hi All, After much research I have decided to jump into this rod buildingadventure.So first things first I guess I need some tools. I have a friend thatworksat metal fabrication shop, that things he can build a steel planing formandpossibly a Garrison style binding machine. His one request was that Iprovide some to scale blue prints to work from. I have found severalroughhand sketches of the two devices, however I would like something a littlemore detailed. Does anyone have detailed drawings/blue prints of the formor the binder? If not can anyone recommend a good source. Thank You (in advance), Todd from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Jul 19 09:20:03 2000 e6JEK2G09486 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A90CBFC10080; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:19:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Todd, Check out a local sewing machine repair shop for the thread tensioners,I picked mine up for free(it had come of a commerical machine and he hadnumerous ones...). The majority of the binder was made from 5/8"plywood that was left over from a set of shelves. The cup hook idea sounds really good and effective.I made my rollers out of 1.25" dia dowelWord of warning make the craddle out of some nice thick material1/8"(3mm) or greater. Any thinner and the corners of the blank willbe crushed when binding with a heavy weight(or this just might be apersonal problem...mine are .093" thick) A couple of guys for central Canada had a real horror story a couple ofmonths ago... the guy that cut the groove did not cut a taper in theslot...then they tried cutting the top of the forms only to find that the materialhad warped. One other point, I moved the centerline of the bolt holes .045" off centerto the 3/4"bar to allow for larger butt sections. I did not feel that there was needto make the formssymetrical. The major draw back is if you start with the tip side and blowthe depth, you cannot flip the forms over and try again. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine You are really wasting your money if you go to a machinist to builda Garrison- style binder. With a little ingenuity (e.g., use cup hooks forthe support cradles, make your own tensioners with washers and springs)youcan build a perfectly serviceable Garrison binder yourself for under $20. So first things first I guess I need some tools. I have a friend thatworksat metal fabrication shop, that things he can build a steel planing formandpossibly a Garrison style binding machine. His one request was that Iprovide some to scale blue prints to work from. I have found severalroughhand sketches of the two devices, however I would like something alittlemore detailed. Does anyone have detailed drawings/blue prints of theformor the binder? If not can anyone recommend a good source. Thank You (in advance), Todd from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jul 19 11:10:47 2000 e6JGAkG12855 Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Adding to what Brad has said below on the Forms,MAKE SURE THE GROOVE IS 60* THE FULL LENGTH OF THE FORM.I could not figure why I got glue lines with my new forms after making 15rodswithout glue lines on my home made forms. I bought a set of forms thatwere madein a machine shop so I would have a set that were a full 60", mine are just52".The machinist made form I bought is not a true 60* on sections of thegroove. Itis more like 52 to 58*. This gave me the wrong angle for the edges of thestripsto meet thus leaving a gap. It took me three blanks to figure this out.The grooves( both sides) are enough under 60* that I can clean them up withatriangle file to get a true 60*. These are just things you have to keep inmind,a good machinist would know to keep things right.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bradley Love wrote: Todd, Check out a local sewing machine repair shop for the thread tensioners,I picked mine up for free(it had come of a commerical machine and he hadnumerous ones...). The majority of the binder was made from 5/8"plywood that was left over from a set of shelves. The cup hook idea sounds really good and effective.I made my rollers out of 1.25" dia dowelWord of warning make the craddle out of some nice thick material1/8"(3mm) or greater. Any thinner and the corners of the blank willbe crushed when binding with a heavy weight(or this just might be apersonal problem...mine are .093" thick) A couple of guys for central Canada had a real horror story a couple ofmonths ago... the guy that cut the groove did not cut a taper in theslot...then they tried cutting the top of the forms only to find that the materialhad warped. One other point, I moved the centerline of the bolt holes .045" off centerto the 3/4"bar to allow for larger butt sections. I did not feel that there was needto make the formssymetrical. The major draw back is if you start with the tip side and blowthe depth, you cannot flip the forms over and try again. ----- Original Message -----From: Seth Steinzor Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 8:25 AMSubject: RE: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and BindingMachine You are really wasting your money if you go to a machinist to builda Garrison- style binder. With a little ingenuity (e.g., use cup hooks forthe support cradles, make your own tensioners with washers andsprings)youcan build a perfectly serviceable Garrison binder yourself for under $20. So first things first I guess I need some tools. I have a friend thatworksat metal fabrication shop, that things he can build a steel planing formandpossibly a Garrison style binding machine. His one request was that Iprovide some to scale blue prints to work from. I have found severalroughhand sketches of the two devices, however I would like something alittlemore detailed. Does anyone have detailed drawings/blue prints of theformor the binder? If not can anyone recommend a good source. Thank You (in advance), Todd from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Jul 19 13:33:42 2000 e6JIXfG17354 Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:33:30 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Stresscurves Claude, I think my problem is that I don`t have Excel on my iMac. So I have tobuy the program if I want to run HexRod on it.....? regardsdanny -------Work Danny - I have an iMac at home and a G-3 laptop at work, and theexcel version of hexrod works fine. The URL ishttp://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/software/hexrod9.xls I'm using Excel 98 (part of MS Office 98). If you have an olderversion of excel and can't open the hexrod.xls file, let me know andI'll try to save it in an earlier version and email it to you as anattachment. Claude from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Jul 19 17:57:31 2000 e6JMvUG25623 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Honing angles boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3046985844_738649_MIME_Part" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3046985844_738649_MIME_Part To all Hardcore handplanners This issue have been covered before here on the list,regarding 60 1/2 blockplans. I did it on mine, and ittook much better shaves. I used the 60 1/2 because itfitted my small hands better. After I got my Record, Ihave not used other. It fits my hands even better, andthe sole is is wider. I have used the standard 25=AA/30=AA on the blade, and felt Iwas grinding the blade more than shaving cane. So tonight I was honing the blade on my Record 9 1/2to 30=AA/35=AA and it was like getting a new plan! Thedifferent in "sharpness" is great. I could plan 2 splinesdown from 2 mm oversize to where I'm going to adjust theform to final dimension, before I had to sharpen the blade.Usually I had sharpen it 2-3 times with the "old" settings. The "lift up" at the node is gone, I can hardly feel any ofthem at all. Is like planning nodeless:-) I did not bother to "cut" the corners on the blade, but there wasno digging in the form. I can take ultra thin shaves, and the cutting edge plays that sweetmusic to me. regardsdanny-------Work --MS_Mac_OE_3046985844_738649_MIME_Part Honing angles To all Hardcore handplanners This issue have been covered before here on the list, regarding 60 1/2 blockplans. I did it on mine, and ittook much better shaves. I used the 60 1/2 because itfitted my small hands better. After I got my Record, Ihave not used other. It fits my hands even better, and the sole is is wider. I have used the standard 25=AA/30=AA on the blade, and felt Iwas grinding the blade more than shaving cane. So tonight I was honing the blade on my Record 9 1/2 to 30=AA/35=AA and it=was like getting a new plan! The different in "sharpness" is great. I could plan 2 splinesdown from 2 mm oversize to where I'm going to adjust the form to final dimension, before I had to sharpen the blade.Usually I had sharpen it 2-3 times with the "old" settings. The "lift up" at the node is gone, I can hardly feel any ofthem at all. Is like planning nodeless:-) I did not bother to "cut" the corners on the blade, but there was= no digging in the form. I can take ultra thin shaves, and the cutting edge plays that sweetmusic to me. regardsdanny Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054 --MS_Mac_OE_3046985844_738649_MIME_Part-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jul 19 18:04:18 2000 e6JN4HG25867 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:05:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Honing angles As I read you Danny, you are saying you have a 5 deg. variation in theseangles. How are you holding the blade to the stones ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Honing angles To all Hardcore handplanners This issue have been covered before here on the list,regarding 60 1/2 blockplans. I did it on mine, and ittook much better shaves. I used the 60 1/2 because itfitted my small hands better. After I got my Record, Ihave not used other. It fits my hands even better, andthe sole is is wider. I have used the standard 25/30 on the blade, and felt Iwas grinding the blade more than shaving cane. So tonight I was honing the blade on my Record 9 1/2to 30/35 and it was like getting a new plan! Thedifferent in "sharpness" is great. I could plan 2 splinesdown from 2 mm oversize to where I'm going to adjust theform to final dimension, before I had to sharpen the blade.Usually I had sharpen it 2-3 times with the "old" settings. The "lift up" at the node is gone, I can hardly feel any ofthem at all. Is like planning nodeless:-) I did not bother to "cut" the corners on the blade, but there wasno digging in the form. I can take ultra thin shaves, and the cutting edge plays that sweetmusic to me. regardsdanny-------Work from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Jul 19 18:28:15 2000 e6JNSEG26585 Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:28:06 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Honing angles Most of what we do, has allready been done by the old masters. Just to be clear here, I did not think I was inventing something new here,I was so pleased with the way my plan performed with the new angles,I wanted other to know. Thanks for the Howell tips, an other book on my list.... regardsdanny -------Work From: Oozakgpt@aol.comDate: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:08:21 EDT Subject: Re: Honing angles Jack Howell in his book even recommends honing your blades up to 45degrees from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jul 19 18:52:24 2000 e6JNqNG27409 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Rodmakers Subject: Re: Honing angles I had good success with the compound angles too, 35* and 40*. However,some on the list have had trouble. I think my success may have been from the increase in angle (up from 30*) and not because it was compound. Does that make sense?Bob At 01:28 AM 7/21/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:Most of what we do, has allready been done by the old masters. Just to be clear here, I did not think I was inventing something new here,I was so pleased with the way my plan performed with the new angles,I wanted other to know. Thanks for the Howell tips, an other book on my list.... regardsdanny-------Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: Oozakgpt@aol.comDate: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:08:21 EDT Subject: Re: Honing angles Jack Howell in his book even recommends honing your blades up to 45degrees from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jul 19 19:49:32 2000 e6K0nRG28293 Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:49:22 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Honing angles Danny,I just received Jack Howell's book (and 3 others) today. I haven't hada chance to really read the whole thing but so far it looks like a good reed...Imean read LOL!!!!ShawnP.S. I have those rod pics and will send them later for your viewing pleasure! Danny Twang wrote: Most of what we do, has allready been done by the old masters. Just to be clear here, I did not think I was inventing something new here,I was so pleased with the way my plan performed with the new angles,I wanted other to know. Thanks for the Howell tips, an other book on my list.... regardsdanny------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: Oozakgpt@aol.comDate: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:08:21 EDT Subject: Re: Honing angles Jack Howell in his book even recommends honing your blades up to 45degrees from briansr@point-net.com Wed Jul 19 20:46:44 2000 e6K1khG29218 Subject: Re :Mechanical drawing Hi ToddAt best get your friend to do the drilling and tapping for the forms.IMHOtry doing the groove yourself a la Tom Penrose's really excellentinstructions .Most if not all machinists over sell their abilities to millthe groove and end up F----ng up the job.BTW Brent e-mail me ,the Gaspe rivers are picking up !!!!Got good news.Cheers Brian from tcwege@worldnet.att.net Wed Jul 19 21:50:51 2000 e6K2ooG00067 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Another Rookie looking for Help! Importance: Normal Hi List,Just getting into building cane rods. Working on my forms and got my canethis week. Still need a good amount of equipment and noticed a lot of itavailable at Munro Rod Company. Anyone have experience with them? Anyotherresources you would recommend?Thanks for the help,Tilo from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jul 19 22:03:16 2000 e6K33FG00439 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:02:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Another Rookie looking for Help! Apparently Munro has supplied good products in the past, but I've had astanding order with him, when he could ship. No word in 3 months ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Another Rookie looking for Help! Hi List,Just getting into building cane rods. Working on my forms and got my canethis week. Still need a good amount of equipment and noticed a lot of itavailable at Munro Rod Company. Anyone have experience with them? Anyotherresources you would recommend?Thanks for the help,Tilo from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Jul 19 22:28:11 2000 e6K3SBG00857 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A1C9A504008E; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:28:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine the layout of the holes in a set of forms athttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net/forms.htmlthe sketch is incomplete, but I believe that itgets the point across... Brad please excuse the lack luster cad...its shareware... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Hi All, After much research I have decided to jump into this rod buildingadventure.So first things first I guess I need some tools. I have a friend thatworksat metal fabrication shop, that things he can build a steel planing formandpossibly a Garrison style binding machine. His one request was that Iprovide some to scale blue prints to work from. I have found severalroughhand sketches of the two devices, however I would like something a littlemore detailed. Does anyone have detailed drawings/blue prints of the formor the binder? If not can anyone recommend a good source. Thank You (in advance), Todd from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jul 19 22:34:46 2000 e6K3YjG01044 Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:34:43 -0700 Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Bradley,I made one modification that helped me, and I don't think I've seen itelsewhere. For the "push" holes, I drilled them out to 9/32" about halfwaythrough the bars. Then I only had to tap half as deep a hole. Required a lotless twisting on that tap handle. Does that make sense? Harry Bradley Love wrote: the layout of the holes in a set of forms athttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net/forms.htmlthe sketch is incomplete, but I believe that itgets the point across... Brad please excuse the lack luster cad...its shareware... ----- Original Message -----From: Todd J Packer Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 8:47 PMSubject: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Hi All, After much research I have decided to jump into this rod buildingadventure.So first things first I guess I need some tools. I have a friend thatworksat metal fabrication shop, that things he can build a steel planing formandpossibly a Garrison style binding machine. His one request was that Iprovide some to scale blue prints to work from. I have found severalroughhand sketches of the two devices, however I would like something a littlemore detailed. Does anyone have detailed drawings/blue prints of theformor the binder? If not can anyone recommend a good source. Thank You (in advance), Todd --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Jul 19 23:39:01 2000 e6K4d0G01822 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A2627A2A02A4; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:38:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Hello Harry,Yes it sure does(you only need 1.5*dia of a screw for max. clampingtorque),plus the tap will align really easy that way and the screw will shoulderwith no problems...I usually drill two threads deep with a oversize drill by 1/64" for the samepurpose. You don't have to tap the hole to depth with the bars clamped together, justgetthe tap aligned and 4 or 5 threads cut, then after all the holes are drilledand startedseparate the bars and tap all the way thru the bar. I also put a smalldivet (9/32" dia.x.06 deep)in the face of the mating bar so that the push bolt would not scare the faceof the bar. Some guys put little brass spacers in the hole between the boltand the bar to achive the same result(does any of this make sense?) hope this helps...Brad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Bradley,I made one modification that helped me, and I don't think I've seen itelsewhere. For the "push" holes, I drilled them out to 9/32" abouthalfwaythrough the bars. Then I only had to tap half as deep a hole. Required alotless twisting on that tap handle. Does that make sense? Harry Bradley Love wrote: the layout of the holes in a set of forms athttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net/forms.htmlthe sketch is incomplete, but I believe that itgets the point across... Brad please excuse the lack luster cad...its shareware... ----- Original Message -----From: Todd J Packer Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 8:47 PMSubject: Mechanical Drawings for Steel Planing Form and Binding Machine Hi All, After much research I have decided to jump into this rod buildingadventure.So first things first I guess I need some tools. I have a friend thatworksat metal fabrication shop, that things he can build a steel planingformandpossibly a Garrison style binding machine. His one request was that Iprovide some to scale blue prints to work from. I have found severalroughhand sketches of the two devices, however I would like something alittlemore detailed. Does anyone have detailed drawings/blue prints of theformor the binder? If not can anyone recommend a good source. Thank You (in advance), Todd --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu Jul 20 02:10:54 2000 e6K7ArG03604 fwd01.sul.t-online.comwith esmtp id 13FATi-1MKVvMC; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:10:42 +0200 Subject: Re: Another Rookie looking for Help! Hi Tilo, I'm also kind of a rookie in rodbuilding. Where are you from? I orderedsome equipment from Munro to and just like in nobler's case - not a wordin weeks. After sending Munro an Email asking them to confirm my order,I've only received an Email telling me, that he is out fishing until4/2, but their Email dated from July 9th. Kind of funny, don't youthink? Another Question - I've ordered a set of planing forms fromColorado Bootstrap and haven't heard from them since. I tried to contactthem via Email and Fax - but no response. When I tried to call them,I've only reached the answering machine. Are they still in business? Ralf nobler wrote: Apparently Munro has supplied good products in the past, but I've had astanding order with him, when he could ship. No word in 3 months ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tilo C. Wege" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:54 PMSubject: Another Rookie looking for Help! Hi List,Just getting into building cane rods. Working on my forms and got mycanethis week. Still need a good amount of equipment and noticed a lot of itavailable at Munro Rod Company. Anyone have experience with them?Anyotherresources you would recommend?Thanks for the help,Tilo from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Jul 20 02:33:09 2000 e6K7X8G03943 Subject: Mechanical Drawings for Spliceblock I have a tip splice to be done on an old Speyrod. Looked up the chapter in theBook,but I'm having trouble understand the drawings on the compound splice block. Is there any other more clear drawings out there, or is it just me that don'thave enoughtraining reading technical drawings.........? TIAdanny from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 06:30:21 2000 e6KBUKG06301 2000 04:35:17 PDT Subject: Re: Another Rookie looking for Help! I heard that Frank is getting out of the business and that ColoradoBootstrap has changed hands. I don't have the website address, but Iunderstand that you can reach the new owner that wayt obe sure youdon't fall between the cracks on the hand-off. The price hasincreased under teh new owner. --- Ralf Ladda wrote: Hi Tilo, I'm also kind of a rookie in rodbuilding. Where are you from? Iorderedsome equipment from Munro to and just like in nobler's case - nota wordin weeks. After sending Munro an Email asking them to confirm myorder,I've only received an Email telling me, that he is out fishinguntil4/2, but their Email dated from July 9th. Kind of funny, don'tyouthink? Another Question - I've ordered a set of planing formsfromColorado Bootstrap and haven't heard from them since. I tried tocontactthem via Email and Fax - but no response. When I tried to callthem,I've only reached the answering machine. Are they still inbusiness? Ralf nobler wrote: Apparently Munro has supplied good products in the past, butI've had astanding order with him, when he could ship. No word in 3months ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tilo C. Wege" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:54 PMSubject: Another Rookie looking for Help! Hi List,Just getting into building cane rods. Working on my forms andgot my canethis week. Still need a good amount of equipment and noticeda lot of itavailable at Munro Rod Company. Anyone have experience withthem? Anyotherresources you would recommend?Thanks for the help,Tilo __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Thu Jul 20 06:54:09 2000 e6KBs9G06953 helo=stans.tiac.net) Subject: Working length of strips Hey Folks,Moving along here on the first construction stages of my first rod -aftera harrowing splitting experience, I seem to have 6 acceptable strips forthe butt section of my "Sir D" 7' 4wt. - I am staggering the ferrules alaGarrison, and have what may be an obvious question - what is the properworking length to cut the strips after I have laid out the node stagger? Thanks in advance from this "greenhorn", Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from Bamboomaker@aol.com Thu Jul 20 07:37:26 2000 e6KCbPG07962 Subject: The 'business' of rodmaking Friends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If one made less than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives (deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributor purchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or the spouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Jul 20 08:21:25 2000 e6KDLNG09313 Subject: Re: Working length of strips Danny Twang wrote: Alec, I'm using 1-1 1/2"" on both side, so in Your case the strip should be 44-45".I know of others using a "clamp" to fix the strip in the form, and if Youchoosethe this method You have to have 10-15" in the butt end of the strips, and1-1/12"at the tip end of the strips. I also had a bad experience with my first splitting, but then I read on thelist of amucheasier way of doing it. The post have been repeated a couple of times. IfYou do asearch in the archives You'll find it. I don't remember who posted it..... regardsdanny Alec Stansell wrote: Hey Folks,Moving along here on the first construction stages of my first rod -aftera harrowing splitting experience, I seem to have 6 acceptable strips forthe butt section of my "Sir D" 7' 4wt. - I am staggering the ferrules alaGarrison, and have what may be an obvious question - what is the properworking length to cut the strips after I have laid out the node stagger? Thanks in advance from this "greenhorn", Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 20 08:37:06 2000 e6KDb5G10065 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:36:11 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Unless you really NEED extra income, don't screw up your "fun thing", bymaking it a business ! I can tell you that it will cut your time on the lakeand stream considerably, plus you have nothing to do for relaxation ! Wehave enough demands on our pleasure time, as it is ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: The 'business' of rodmaking Friends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If one madeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 20 08:38:24 2000 e6KDcOG10239 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:33:15 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Mark, purposes, no, definitely not. Even if your prices are premium and you make$1000 profit per rod, that just isn't much of a living. A rich rodmakeronce told me that the only rodmakers that were rich, were rich before theywere rodmakers.As for the passion for the craft waning, sometimes it does. Forinstance, it's 8:30 now, I was working on rods until 4AM and here I am up,waiting for coffee to kick in so I can get started again. I do love makingrod, and always will, but times like these, it gets a little old. Rightnow, I'd give my right arm to be able to get out of this shop for a day andjust go hide... But the passion does come back when times are slower. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: The 'business' of rodmaking Friends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If one madeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 08:56:18 2000 e6KDuHG10882 06:56:18 PDT Subject: Re: Another Rookie looking for Help! well gentlemen, ...and you're only gettingstarted...welcome to rodbuilding. timothy --- Ralf Ladda wrote: Hi Tilo, I'm also kind of a rookie in rodbuilding. Whereare you from? I orderedsome equipment from Munro to and just like innobler's case - not a wordin weeks. After sending Munro an Email asking themto confirm my order,I've only received an Email telling me, that he isout fishing until4/2, but their Email dated from July 9th. Kind offunny, don't youthink? Another Question - I've ordered a set ofplaning forms fromColorado Bootstrap and haven't heard from themsince. I tried to contactthem via Email and Fax - but no response. When Itried to call them,I've only reached the answering machine. Are theystill in business? Ralf nobler wrote: Apparently Munro has supplied good products inthe past, but I've had astanding order with him, when he could ship. Noword in 3 months ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tilo C. Wege" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:54 PMSubject: Another Rookie looking for Help! Hi List,Just getting into building cane rods. Workingon my forms and got my canethis week. Still need a good amount ofequipment and noticed a lot of itavailable at Munro Rod Company. Anyone haveexperience with them? Anyotherresources you would recommend?Thanks for the help,Tilo ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jul 20 09:07:14 2000 e6KE7DG11308 JAA18810 ESMTP; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:06:57 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) "'briansr@point-net.com'" Subject: RE: Re :Mechanical drawing talked to a machinist friend of mine and he told me that the problem ispeople have the groove milled but what they should really be doing is having itplaned. He said milling will warp the forms and vary from inch to inch. Notbeing a machinist but a wood worker I guess it's like the difference betweenhand planing or milling/routing wood or bamboo. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: brian sturrock[SMTP:briansr@point-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 6:43 PM Subject: Re :Mechanical drawing Hi ToddAt best get your friend to do the drilling and tapping for the forms.IMHOtry doing the groove yourself a la Tom Penrose's really excellentinstructions .Most if not all machinists over sell their abilities to millthe groove and end up F----ng up the job.BTW Brent e-mail me ,the Gaspe rivers are picking up !!!!Got good news.Cheers Brian from lblove@omniglobal.net Thu Jul 20 09:18:51 2000 e6KEIoG11892 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AA49D580017A; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:18:49 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Hey Bob,If you want come hide in the hill country after Livingston...I've been hiding for about a month now and still haven't seen asearch party...or any party for that matter...and you won't have toleave a deposit, I already have. on the subject of money, if you want to be richlearn c/c++ and move to Austin, the IT capital of theworld(for right now anyway) laterBrad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Mark, purposes, no, definitely not. Even if your prices are premium and youmake$1000 profit per rod, that just isn't much of a living. A rich rodmakeronce told me that the only rodmakers that were rich, were rich beforetheywere rodmakers.As for the passion for the craft waning, sometimes it does. Forinstance, it's 8:30 now, I was working on rods until 4AM and here I am up,waiting for coffee to kick in so I can get started again. I do lovemakingrod, and always will, but times like these, it gets a little old. Rightnow, I'd give my right arm to be able to get out of this shop for a dayandjust go hide... But the passion does come back when times are slower. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Bamboomaker@aol.com Date: Thursday, July 20, 2000 7:32 AMSubject: The 'business' of rodmaking Friends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If onemadeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Thu Jul 20 09:36:06 2000 e6KEa5G12657 Subject: Re: Working length of strips Alec, I just finished building the Sir D, 7ft. 4# with the help of TonySpezio. We cut the strips so that at least 4 inches at the tip werenode free, then the overall length about 48"s. The longer you cut them,the more planing you must do in order to bind the strips properly. Also,a little extra length, could mean the difference between a fixable orthrow away strip, if you should make a mistake. Other than that, whatever feels good should work. Good Luck. Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jul 20 10:00:30 2000 e6KF0UG13845 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Another Rookie looking for Help! Tilo -- I've had nothing but trouble ordering from Munro. A far better alternative www.goldenwitch.com. Very professional, responsive, honest andknowledgeable. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: Another Rookie looking for Help! Hi List,Just getting into building cane rods. Working on my forms and got mycanethis week. Still need a good amount of equipment and noticed a lot of itavailable at Munro Rod Company. Anyone have experience with them? Anyotherresources you would recommend?Thanks for the help,Tilo from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jul 20 10:59:12 2000 e6KFxBG16380 Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:58:59 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: (many snips)I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: Ifone madeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Mark,I can't say that my rodmaking is a REAL business, although I do sell afewrods each year. Like you, I'm not considering making rods as a profession,justas an after hours diversion. In 1999 I made 11 rods. This year I've madesevenso far, and have orders for two more. I do have a Federal Employer IDnumber, andState and Local Sales Tax certificates. I paid the Federal Excise Tax on therodsI sold last year. I guess what I'm trying to say is that though the hobby ofbuilding has become a very small business, I'm losing money for every hour Ispendin the shop. I could fill my evenings with counseling appointments at $75/hour.Obviously as an MD, you're losing money by making rods as well.We've discussed this sort of thing on the list before, and I listened withinterest. Then I ignored all the good advice. I sold the second and fourthrodsI made for a few $$'s each, just so that I could finance buying morecomponentsand tools. Also, I decided to keep my rodmaking separate from the familybudget.Rodmaking has its own checking account. (That way she doesn't even KNOWhow much Ispend) I even managed to take my wife on an expensive trip ($250/nighthotel) outof the rodmaking budget. That somewhat compensates her for the hours Ispend inthe shop. I was lucky in that those early rods turned out quite nice. Troublecame with subsequent rods. Because I am completely unwilling to offer a rodforsale that isn't up to the highest standards, I found that there was initiallygreat pressure in making rods for sale. Each strip has to turn out right, orit'sstart all over. (I'm big on keeping the strips in the same relationship as theygrew). The finish has to be flawless or I sand it off and start again. And soon. I also found that I was making more rods of the same length and taperthan Iwanted. I think I've made 10 Payne 101's, for example, and I still don't ownone. If I had it to do over, what would I change? To be honest, nothing.Every step of the journey from raw beginner to half-decent rodmaker hasbeenexciting. How many guys can say they caught King Salmon on a bamboo rodtheybuilt themselves? Probably not many. The challenge of solving problems andanswering questions is half the fun of rodmaking. Remember my fish-eyetroublesthis spring? Though it was nerve-wracking, the rods I'm making today arebetter something new with about every second rod. Well, I still learn something newwithevery strip. Often what I learn is about myself as much as it is aboutrodmaking. And that's the most interesting learning of all. I don't think I'llever tire of that passion. And I love teaching others, enabling them toexperience a little of the joy I have in making something both beautiful andfunctional. But I don't offer classes for profit -- I'm going to keep that "just Here's my advice. It's probably worth what you paid for it. Read thesection in Jack Howell's book on "Turning Pro". I know you are experiencedenoughto make a decent quality rod. You've probably made 15 or 20 rods so far,right?You don't really need the money, so don't allow rodbuilding to become work. Makewhat you want to, at your own speed. Only accept orders for custom rodsthat youmight like yourself. Since you use that Morgan Mill, turning out two or threerods to the same taper is no big deal. Keep the ones you want, and sell a fewofyour surplus rods. Get all the paperwork done so that you can buy cork, etc.atwholesale prices. But most of all, be sure you keep learning and growing asbotha rodmaker and a person. Don't worry about profits. Pour your sales incomebackinto tools and tonkin. (of course, you have to make a profit on paper 3 outof 5years, or the IRS considers your "business" a hobby) Last year my profitwas$135! Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Thu Jul 20 11:26:49 2000 e6KGQmG17352 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Harry, Your words are wise. Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Jul 20 11:40:45 2000 e6KGeiG17834 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Harry Boyd wrote: Snip. into tools and tonkin. (of course, you have to make a profit on paper 3out of 5 years, or the IRS considers your "business" a hobby) Are you saying Amazon.com is a hobby? They haven't made a profit yet! Regards, BobFly Supplies from brewer@teleport.com Thu Jul 20 12:58:00 2000 e6KHvxG20226 "taliesin"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0M_GXO; Thu Jul 20 10:57:522000 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Mark, I have taken the time and trouble to set up my rodmaking hobby as a"business" because I have found that to continue to build rods, I have tosell some of them to recoup my cost for supplies (and tools!). Having norealistic ambition to do more than that financially (at least until I retire from my day gig), I think a person can pursue it to any degree one chooses.My interest at this time of my life is covering my costs and being able tocontinue building. So far, I have managed the latter (but not necessarilythe former)! Randy Brewer --------------------------------------------------------------- Friends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If one madeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from anglport@con2.com Thu Jul 20 14:18:47 2000 e6KJIlG23289 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AF725B0292; Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:13:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Bob,That's why the guys at Amazon are having so much FUN!!!!!!! Art At 12:40 PM 07/20/2000 -0400, rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Harry Boyd wrote: Snip. into tools and tonkin. (of course, you have to make a profit on paper 3out of 5 years, or the IRS considers your "business" a hobby) Are you saying Amazon.com is a hobby? They haven't made a profit yet! Regards, BobFly Supplies from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jul 20 16:14:15 2000 e6KLEEG28107 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking I turned the hobby of flytying into a business once and I began to hate tying so much that after i filled all my orders I didn't tie another flie for over a year. Now I still tie Classic Salmon Flies now and again for people to put on the wall but I am not forced into 100 dozen of the same flie anymore. If you want to pursue this as a job talk to some of the other guys who do this full time and see how much fun it isn't some days.Bret from freaner@home.com Thu Jul 20 16:15:43 2000 e6KLFgG28222 (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP ;Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:15:36 -0700 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking At 8:37 AM -0400 , 7/20/00, Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote about The 'business' of rodmaking Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Mark - I haven't made any bamboo rods yet, but I have had a part-time business - it was preparing income tax returns, several years ago. There are definite benefits to having a business - you mentioned most of them above. An important one is that all of your (reasonable) expenses for attending a conclave such as Greyrock will be deductible, including transportation, lodging, meals, etc. You'll be able to write off any tools you buy (or the materials to build tools) as well. Take a drive down to the hardware store to buy sandpaper? Write off the cost of the sandpaper, and your mileage at $0.325 per mile... Someone mentioned you must show a profit (on your tax return) 3 out of 5 years or you have a "hobby" not a business. This makes it somewhat interesting; your five year income stream could look something like -$3000, - $4000, -$2000, +$100, +$150 - and you could be considered perfectly legal (assuming you had the records to back this up). As we all know, some "equipment" must be depreciated over several years, while other items can be written off (expensed) in the year purchased. I haven't read the tax laws in the last 5 years for this, but it was relatively vague about what had to be depreciated and what could be expensed. If you bought a new Record 9 1/2 plane, you'd likely be able to write it off in one year. A new hand mill might have to be depreciated - a lot depends on how long you expect the thing to (reasonably) last. You'd probably declare your income and expenses from this as a sole proprietorship (Schedule C), or as a Subchapter S Corporation - "regular" corporations (such as Amazon) have slightly different rules. The cost of your business licenses, exise taxes, sales taxes, CPA, etc., are of course all deductible as well. Three pieces of free advice:1) be extremely careful about deducting "home office expenses" - the rules for this are complicated and exacting (as an MD, you probably already knew this).2) declare ALL your income from this. They can send you to jail for not declaring income; the penalty for accidentally making a mistake on your deductions, is paying the back taxes, a small fine, and interest on the unpaid additional tax.3) if you have a CPA or tax attorney, go talk to him/her for an hour about this - it will be well-worth the fee. As to turning the rod-making into not-fun work - I can't see it, as long as you continue to make rods at the same rate you now do. There's a fine line (legal) between a hobby that costs you several hundred dollars per year, and a part- time business that sometimes earns you a small profit; your physical time spent planing, gluing, varnishing, etc., can be exactly the same, IF YOU CHOOSE IT TO BE. Claude from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 20 16:38:04 2000 e6KLc3G29275 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:38:34 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking I wasn't going to get into details, but this just may save someone from notenjoying a great hobby/sport. Take a look atwww.rcplanet.com/aldrich_models I have been in the model airplane game since 1937, and won many Nat'l.championships, and designed many kits that are still marketed 50 yearslater, up until 1970. Then I started making a living full time, at my hobby.Today I seldom build anymore, and fly very sporadically. The drive is gone,when you do it solely for a living, is my point ! AND, so is the FUN ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking At 8:37 AM -0400 , 7/20/00, Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote about The'business' of rodmaking Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Mark - I haven't made any bamboo rods yet, but I have had a part- timebusiness - it was preparing income tax returns, several years ago.There are definite benefits to having a business - you mentioned mostof them above. An important one is that all of your (reasonable)expenses for attending a conclave such as Greyrock will bedeductible, including transportation, lodging, meals, etc. You'll beable to write off any tools you buy (or the materials to build tools)as well. Take a drive down to the hardware store to buy sandpaper?Write off the cost of the sandpaper, and your mileage at $0.325 permile... Someone mentioned you must show a profit (on your tax return) 3 outof 5 years or you have a "hobby" not a business. This makes itsomewhat interesting; your five year income stream could looksomething like -$3000, - $4000, -$2000, +$100, +$150 - and you couldbe considered perfectly legal (assuming you had the records to backthis up). As we all know, some "equipment" must be depreciated overseveral years, while other items can be written off (expensed) in theyear purchased. I haven't read the tax laws in the last 5 years forthis, but it was relatively vague about what had to be depreciatedand what could be expensed. If you bought a new Record 9 1/2 plane,you'd likely be able to write it off in one year. A new hand millmight have to be depreciated - a lot depends on how long you expectthe thing to (reasonably) last. You'd probably declare your income and expenses from this as a soleproprietorship (Schedule C), or as a Subchapter S Corporation -"regular" corporations (such as Amazon) have slightly differentrules. The cost of your business licenses, exise taxes, sales taxes,CPA, etc., are of course all deductible as well. Three pieces of free advice:1) be extremely careful about deducting "home office expenses" - therules for this are complicated and exacting (as an MD, you probablyalready knew this).2) declare ALL your income from this. They can send you to jail fornot declaring income; the penalty for accidentally making a mistakeon your deductions, is paying the back taxes, a small fine, andinterest on the unpaid additional tax.3) if you have a CPA or tax attorney, go talk to him/her for an hourabout this - it will be well-worth the fee. As to turning the rod-making into not-fun work - I can't see it, aslong as you continue to make rods at the same rate you now do.There's a fine line (legal) between a hobby that costs you severalhundred dollars per year, and a part- time business that sometimesearns you a small profit; your physical time spent planing, gluing,varnishing, etc., can be exactly the same, IF YOU CHOOSE IT TO BE. Claude from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jul 20 16:39:19 2000 e6KLdJG29396 QAA27477 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking I know what you mean, It almost took over my life in three years. Now I justsay"NO".I still like doing demos at shows and Conclaves.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I turned the hobby of flytying into a business once and I began to hate tyingso much that after i filled all my orders I didn't tie another flie for overa year. Now I still tie Classic Salmon Flies now and again for people to puton the wall but I am not forced into 100 dozen of the same flie anymore. Ifyou want to pursue this as a job talk to some of the other guys who do thisfull time and see how much fun it isn't some days.Bret from freaner@home.com Thu Jul 20 16:50:08 2000 e6KLo7G29906 (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP ;Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:50:08 -0700 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking At 4:41 PM -0500 , 7/20/00, nobler wrote about Re: The 'business' ofrodmakingI wasn't going to get into details, but this just may save someone from notenjoying a great hobby/sport. Take a look atwww.rcplanet.com/aldrich_models I have been in the model airplane game since 1937, and won many Nat'l.championships, and designed many kits that are still marketed 50 yearslater, up until 1970. Then I started making a living full time, at my hobby.Today I seldom build anymore, and fly very sporadically. The drive is gone,when you do it solely for a living, is my point ! AND, so is the FUN ! I agree totally, which is why I said As to turning the rod-making into not-fun work - I can't see it, aslong as you continue to make rods at the same rate you now do. If he's now making a dozen rods a year as a hobby, and continues to make a dozen rods a year as a part-time secondary business, he won't lose the fun of rod-making - anyway, he won't feel the pressure to produce more and more and more just to make a living. My point was that there are advantages to converting a hobby to a "business for tax purposes", as long as you don't have to make a living at it. I do feel for anyone who is making rods full time as the primary source of income - there is no way you can be paid what your time is really worth. Claude from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jul 20 17:00:14 2000 e6KM0DG00307 (204.186.33.147) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Hi Doc, I have tried to turn it into somewhat of a sideline business thelast couple years. Two things I have noticed. First , I make out betterdoing repair and restoration work than actually making rods for sale.Two, I just can't seem to find enough time to spend with the kids. OnceI get the backlog done I am just going to do it as a straight spare timehobby and hangout with the kids. Rodmaking as a sideline business is asingle mans undertaking. Lucky stiff! MartyFriends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If one madeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from wgray@uidaho.edu Thu Jul 20 17:50:25 2000 e6KMoNG01909 PAA13192; 20 Jul 2000 22:52:09 UT Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Mark, If you go through the archives this topic has come up more than once in the past 5 years. Generated LOTS of sometimes HEATed discussion and cussin'. What Harry said is to my mind very true about this... or most"jobs". In general if you like what you do that is key. Rodbuilding, flytying, home brewing, etc. Sometimes things evolve and a hobby becomes someones main business. I've been in my job for 23 years and am just migrating to rodbuilding. I grew up on one of Montana's prime trout streams and fished it and rediscovered what I'd been missing. Some like Terry Ackland have gone "Pro" and I wish them well. Some have a nice sideline that may get to be more. Be careful what you wish for sometimes wishes come true. In an ideal world I'd move back to MT in a few years, sell enought rods to buy trips to Alaska and NZ and fish my back yard again. Time will tell. Wilson------------ $$$ ------------------- $$$ --------------- "...there are those who live life, and there are those who sit and watch it on TV..."Jimmy BuffettA Pirate Looks at 50-------------------------------------------- --------------- C. W. Gray 208.736.3622 (PH)Twin Falls R/E Center 736.0843 (Fax)PO Box 1827Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 wgray@uidaho.edu ========================================================== from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 20 17:56:24 2000 e6KMuOG02107 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: New question on Hardy rod Friends,I have a question on a rod that a friend is restoring. Itis a Hardy CC de France 2 pc single tip 7'0" (butt 43", tip 42"") Therod is a deep caramel color with intermediate wraps every inch or so. Ithas a cork reel seat with a pinned aluminum cap and sliding aluminum D/Lband ( E58689) on it. I estimate that # at 1946???The words "Palakona Regd Trade Mark The c.c. DeFrance" are written in a spiral down the shaft. It has blued ferrulesand the male has a small 2 stamped in it (even though there is only onetip and the bag is for a single tip?)The stripper is tiny and has a clear agate insert as does thetip top. There is no hook keeper.The rod bag is a camo pattern heavy canvas with the Hardy labelon the flap with a rod in hand.The varnish is good and everything is nice except it ismissing one snake guide which is why my friend has it. The problem isthat we are having a hard time identifying the thread color. It lookslike a light bronze or tarnished penny brownish color. It is fairlyheavy silk (at least compared to my Pearsalls gossamer) and when I tookof one of the unraveled pieces and examined it closely it looks to melike a light tan color? I don't think the rod had color preserver on thewraps ??? although the wraps do not appear to be too translucent.Itreminds me of some tan silk I got from Darrel Lee a while back.Any help in identifying the thread color would be greatlyappreciated. Any other info or comments on this rod would also bewelcomed! And what is the line wt?? I'm guessing it is the same as the 8foot model?? I don't know much about Hardy so any help would be nice. Shawn from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Jul 20 19:19:57 2000 e6L0JuG03765 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: New question on Hardy rod Importance: Normal Try www.vfish.net/hardy.htm for the serial number decoding. As far as the silk thread, email me a JPG and I'll see if I can match it.Those tan/beige/coopers can be a bear to match... I have about a dozendifferent shades of which I sell about 4-5 different ones... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: New question on Hardy rod Friends,I have a question on a rod that a friend is restoring. Itis a Hardy CC de France 2 pc single tip 7'0" (butt 43", tip 42"") Therod is a deep caramel color with intermediate wraps every inch or so. Ithas a cork reel seat with a pinned aluminum cap and sliding aluminum D/Lband ( E58689) on it. I estimate that # at 1946???The words "Palakona Regd Trade Mark The c.c. DeFrance" are written in a spiral down the shaft. It has blued ferrulesand the male has a small 2 stamped in it (even though there is only onetip and the bag is for a single tip?)The stripper is tiny and has a clear agate insert as does thetip top. There is no hook keeper.The rod bag is a camo pattern heavy canvas with the Hardy labelon the flap with a rod in hand.The varnish is good and everything is nice except it ismissing one snake guide which is why my friend has it. The problem isthat we are having a hard time identifying the thread color. It lookslike a light bronze or tarnished penny brownish color. It is fairlyheavy silk (at least compared to my Pearsalls gossamer) and when I tookof one of the unraveled pieces and examined it closely it looks to melike a light tan color? I don't think the rod had color preserver on thewraps ??? although the wraps do not appear to be too translucent.Itreminds me of some tan silk I got from Darrel Lee a while back.Any help in identifying the thread color would be greatlyappreciated. Any other info or comments on this rod would also bewelcomed! And what is the line wt?? I'm guessing it is the same as the 8foot model?? I don't know much about Hardy so any help would be nice. Shawn from Bamboomaker@aol.com Thu Jul 20 19:43:37 2000 e6L0hbG04251 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Friends, Thanks for the sharing of past experiences.No need for any 'heated' debate. I just thought that I'd 'stir the pot' a little with a question. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, MDRochester, MN from rvenneri@ulster.net Thu Jul 20 19:44:04 2000 e6L0i3G04317 (172.16.0.179) Organization: Venneri's Subject: gatherings Hey Guys,Back from vacation and back to work. I need some info. I will beattending the Roscoe gathering in sept. I would also like to attend thegathering in AK. Can any one tell me what airport would be best to flyinto and what would be the hotel i would want to stay in as well as thedates of the gathering. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index from tcwege@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 20 20:21:33 2000 e6L1LWG05153 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with SMTP Subject: Just another curious Rookie question Importance: Normal Hello Again,Still gathering everything for my first attempt at cane rod building. I havenot decided the particular rod I want to build and therefore this question.What was, or will be, the first rod you build and why? I know there are alot of variables, but humor me if you would.Thanks,Tilo from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Jul 20 20:26:47 2000 e6L1QkG05352 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Organization: GOULD Hi Mark,I've been in the same boat wondering if it's all worthwhile in having abusiness since I'm retired from my engineering/management job and don'tneedthe income. But I've decided it's the best thing to do. For one thing I wantto keep my reputation in the community (being a former elected citycouncilman) squeaky clean and therefore if I'm selling rods or doing rodrepair work out of my home I want to be sure to comply with all municipalregulations and that means having a business license and a home occupationpermit. Besides the cost is really nominal and it let's me track whether I'mbreaking even or not. One thing I don't do is to spend time and money inadvertising. Some of the suppliers have been excellent in offering bigdiscounts for my little business and one's reputation in local tackle shopsand fly clubs brings all the business I want. I do suspect that havingpublished a rod building book has helped a whole lot and I've recently comeup with an idea for a new and completely different rod book as well.So myintention is to stay with it as a business and make a little on the sidejust so long as it does not interfere with my fishing trips and my othercommunity activities.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: The 'business' of rodmaking Friends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If one madeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 20 20:38:15 2000 e6L1cEG05694 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:39:25 -0500 Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking You have a neat thing going Ray, and as long as you keep your priorities inorder with plenty of fishing, you have the best of both worlds ! You certainly are unique and fortunate in your wise planning. I did enjoyyour book BTW ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The 'business' of rodmaking Hi Mark,I've been in the same boat wondering if it's all worthwhile in having abusiness since I'm retired from my engineering/management job and don'tneedthe income. But I've decided it's the best thing to do. For one thing Iwantto keep my reputation in the community (being a former elected citycouncilman) squeaky clean and therefore if I'm selling rods or doing rodrepair work out of my home I want to be sure to comply with all municipalregulations and that means having a business license and a homeoccupationpermit. Besides the cost is really nominal and it let's me track whetherI'mbreaking even or not. One thing I don't do is to spend time and money inadvertising. Some of the suppliers have been excellent in offering bigdiscounts for my little business and one's reputation in local tackleshopsand fly clubs brings all the business I want. I do suspect that havingpublished a rod building book has helped a whole lot and I've recentlycomeup with an idea for a new and completely different rod book as well.So myintention is to stay with it as a business and make a little on the sidejust so long as it does not interfere with my fishing trips and my othercommunity activities.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 5:37 AMSubject: The 'business' of rodmaking Friends, I'm a consultative internal medicine physician by dayI'm a rodmaker by night I have a question that has been going through my mind lately: If onemadeless than a dozen rods per year, is it worth making it a 'business'? Clearly there are some benefits to having a business - Tax incentives(deductions, deductions, deductions :.p), wholesale buying, distributorpurchasing, and the most important . . . a justification to you (or thespouse) that you need another tool. More importantly, does the 'passion' of rodmaking turn into 'work'afterwards? Just curious to hear what you think. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 20 20:39:31 2000 e6L1dVG05821 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:40:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Just another curious Rookie question One of PHY's tapers for trout. A Martha Marie, or Para #15 most likely. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Just another curious Rookie question Hello Again,Still gathering everything for my first attempt at cane rod building. Ihavenot decided the particular rod I want to build and therefore thisquestion.What was, or will be, the first rod you build and why? I know there are alot of variables, but humor me if you would.Thanks,Tilo from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Thu Jul 20 21:12:34 2000 e6L2CXG06663 helo=stans.tiac.net) Subject: re: The "business" of rodmaking I'm just getting started on my first rod, and am having a great time. Ishared my enthusiasm with a couple of fishing friends, both of whom said"gee - build me one - I'll buy one!" Hmmm... not so fast!!I have owned and operated a fly shop and tied flies commercially in thepast - both got to be a real drag the long tedious shop hours (whileeveryone else fished!) drove me made... and as for tying flies commercially- I'm sure there is a special place in heaven for pro-tyers, as they'vealready spent their time in hell!!Rodmaking as work? Work is for money. Fishing, and my tackle-junkiehabits, are for fun. No deadlines, no debts, no-one breathing done yourneck. I'll just take my time and plane...plane...plane...plane... Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jul 20 23:33:16 2000 e6L4XFG08908 Subject: Re: gatherings Hi Bob,You would fly into Baxter County Airport in Mtn. Home Ar. on Big Sky ( ifthey don't change the name again) feeder line out of St. Louis.,I am 14 miles from the Airport.As far as a place to stay other than Fulton's Lodge, contact me off list.There are some places on the river and two motels that are fairly close tothe SRG. The SRG will be held at Fulton's Lodge. You can Contact Harry Boydabout a room there.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Robert Venneri wrote: Hey Guys,Back from vacation and back to work. I need some info. I will beattending the Roscoe gathering in sept. I would also like to attend thegathering in AK. Can any one tell me what airport would be best to flyinto and what would be the hotel i would want to stay in as well as thedates of the gathering. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index from timklein@uswest.net Fri Jul 21 01:47:32 2000 e6L6lWG10643 (63.225.240.245) Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking The only thing that really makes me consider turning this hobby into abusiness is the absolutely galling rules that the IRS has for hobby income.According to an accountant I know, you can't consider ANYTHING except theactual materials that are in the product you sell, a cost - No portion ofthe cost of tools or even consumable supplies (though he did mention thatyou probably wouldn't get hassled about the consumables as long as theyweredisposable, single use items). It just bugs the living s*** out of me that Ican't take any deduction at all for my expenses if rodmaking is a hobby, butthey still expect me to pay tax on any amount of profit (even if that profitgoes right back into buying more supplies). I still haven't gone through the formalities required to transform my hobbyinto a business, though I've been seriously considering it for a couple ofyears now. I don't make a lot of rods, but as a hobbyist, you'd think I'dhave a couple of the rods I've made laying around somewhere. As of today,you'd be wrong because I don't own a single one of the rods I've made! The one thing my accountant friend was unsure about was whether hobbyistswere still required to pay the federal excise taxes (it's a little funkysince you're required to have an employer ID number to pay the excise taxesbut, as a hobbyist, you aren't a business and shouldn't need the EID. Therules simply state that the tax is owed on any equipment sold by amanufacturer and a manufacturer is defined as any person who produces ataxable article from new or raw material). Anyone have a definitive word onthat one? ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: re: The "business" of rodmaking I'm just getting started on my first rod, and am having a great time. Ishared my enthusiasm with a couple of fishing friends, both of whom said"gee - build me one - I'll buy one!" Hmmm... not so fast!!I have owned and operated a fly shop and tied flies commercially in thepast - both got to be a real drag the long tedious shop hours (whileeveryone else fished!) drove me made... and as for tying fliescommercially- I'm sure there is a special place in heaven for pro-tyers, as they'vealready spent their time in hell!!Rodmaking as work? Work is for money. Fishing, and my tackle-junkiehabits, are for fun. No deadlines, no debts, no-one breathing done yourneck. I'll just take my time and plane...plane...plane...plane... Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from timklein@uswest.net Fri Jul 21 03:04:05 2000 e6L845G11599 (63.225.240.245) Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking I was just looking at the post I sent and I'd like to make a correction... When I said you can't include tooling, etc. in your cost, I meant that thiscan't be used to offset what the government would consider "profit" on arod. You CAN deduct your hobby expenses in some cases, they just make itdifficult; You must itemize deductions on your return, you can only claimexpenses in excess of a certain percentage of your annual income, and youcan only claim expenses up to the amount you made on the hobby (no lossesallowed). Considering the costs of tools, materials, supplies, etc., there isabsolutely no way I've made money on rodmaking. Since the governmentconsiders my hobby sales income though, I've had to become a bookkeeper inorder to keep rodmaking from costing me even MORE money (in the form oftaxes). As a hobby, the government should let you keep things as simple as possible;A simple balance sheet with costs on one side and sales on the other. Oncesales exceed costs, record the profit on your taxes. As long as it's costingyou more than you make, you don't have to play the tax game. Unfortunately, it's not that simple and I've got to keep decent books tokeep from giving them more money than they deserve. As long as I'm doing itanyway, I might as well get the benefit of writing off losses 2 out of 5years. ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking The only thing that really makes me consider turning this hobby into abusiness is the absolutely galling rules that the IRS has for hobbyincome.According to an accountant I know, you can't consider ANYTHING excepttheactual materials that are in the product you sell, a cost - No portion ofthe cost of tools or even consumable supplies (though he did mention thatyou probably wouldn't get hassled about the consumables as long as theyweredisposable, single use items). It just bugs the living s*** out of me thatIcan't take any deduction at all for my expenses if rodmaking is a hobby,butthey still expect me to pay tax on any amount of profit (even if thatprofitgoes right back into buying more supplies). I still haven't gone through the formalities required to transform myhobbyinto a business, though I've been seriously considering it for a couple ofyears now. I don't make a lot of rods, but as a hobbyist, you'd think I'dhave a couple of the rods I've made laying around somewhere. As of today,you'd be wrong because I don't own a single one of the rods I've made! The one thing my accountant friend was unsure about was whetherhobbyistswere still required to pay the federal excise taxes (it's a little funkysince you're required to have an employer ID number to pay the excisetaxesbut, as a hobbyist, you aren't a business and shouldn't need the EID. Therules simply state that the tax is owed on any equipment sold by amanufacturer and a manufacturer is defined as any person who produces ataxable article from new or raw material). Anyone have a definitive wordonthat one? ---Tim ----- Original Message -----From: Alec Stansell Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:23 PMSubject: re: The "business" of rodmaking I'm just getting started on my first rod, and am having a great time. Ishared my enthusiasm with a couple of fishing friends, both of whom said"gee - build me one - I'll buy one!" Hmmm... not so fast!!I have owned and operated a fly shop and tied flies commercially in thepast - both got to be a real drag the long tedious shop hours (whileeveryone else fished!) drove me made... and as for tying fliescommercially- I'm sure there is a special place in heaven for pro-tyers, as they'vealready spent their time in hell!!Rodmaking as work? Work is for money. Fishing, and my tackle-junkiehabits, are for fun. No deadlines, no debts, no-one breathing done yourneck. I'll just take my time and plane...plane...plane...plane... Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jul 21 07:30:37 2000 e6LCUYG14386 Subject: Tilo Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF362.51C0D600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF362.51C0D600 Hi Tilo Build the rod that will feel right to you. If you spend a lot of time on =the construction, finally get it rigged up with a line, and cast it and =it feels like a club, you will be so very disappointed and discouraged =that you may very well never build another. If your fishing has been with graphite up till now, build something =fast; if you have never cast a bamboo rod, whatever you build is going =to feel slow to you at first. The feel of slower ("parabolic") rods is =an acquired taste, so if your present perception of "good rod" is =something relatively fast, don't go too far from that feel just yet. Don't overtax your abilities with the plane by essaying something with a =too fine a tip, unless you are already a skilled workman; those little =30 thou slivers are a bugger to mike , to handle, and to glue and bind. Similarly, avoid tapers with enormously thick butts, as they =unnecessarily complicate the fitting of corks and reel seats. Use "blonde" cane first up, so you can see your work details better. =It's easier to assess your accuracy, your glue lines, and your overall =finish with cane that is not heavily flamed and darkened. Go for something 7'6'' - 8'0''. Those are handleable lengths, they allow =some slop with your splitting accuracy, and allow you to salvage =sections on which you have committed atrocities. There are also lots of =tapers from which to choose in within those parameters. Build a two-piece first up. Unless you name is Bill Garrison Gates, you =can probably live without the hassle and expense of the extra ferrule. I really don't know which specific rod you should build. Maybe a Payne =101. Maybe one of Wayne Cattanach's, which are really great rods, =especially easy to ferrule with the "Cattanach hinge" profile, and cast =very sweetly. There was a 7'9'' 5-weight from John Bokstrom in an issue =of the Planing Form a while back which I thought looked good, but I =haven't built it. Yet. My first effort was a Dickerson 8015, and I was =very pleased with it, and still am. Remember that there is an absolute wealth of good advice, good =assistance, and good will on this list. Given the state of most things =in this year 2000, I find that to be absolutely bloody amazing! Whatever you decide to build, give it everything you've got; and I hope =you build a beauty, and that you are still fishing it and boasting about =it in 50 years time! Good luck, and all the best, Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF362.51C0D600 Hi Tilo Build the rod that will feel right to = spend a lot of time on the construction, finally get it rigged up with a = and cast it and it feels like a club, you will be so very disappointed = discouraged that you may very well never build another. If your fishing has been with graphite = build something fast; if you have never cast a bamboo rod, whatever you = going to feel slow to you at first. The feel of slower ("parabolic") = acquired taste, so if your present perception of "good rod" is something = relatively fast, don't go too far from that feel just yet. Don't overtax your abilities with the = essaying something with a too fine a tip, unless you are already a = to glue and bind. Similarly, avoid tapers with enormously= seats. Use "blonde" cane first up, so you can = work details better. It's easier to assess your accuracy, your glue = darkened. Go for something 7'6'' - 8'0''. Those = handleable lengths, they allow some slop with your splitting accuracy, = parameters. Build a two-piece first up. Unless you = Garrison Gates, you can probably live without the hassle and expense of = extra ferrule. I really don't know which specific rod = build. Maybe a Payne 101. Maybe one of Wayne Cattanach's, which are = rods, especially easy to ferrule with the "Cattanach hinge" profile, and = very sweetly. There was a 7'9'' 5-weight from John Bokstrom in an issue = it. Yet. My first effort was a Dickerson 8015, and I was very pleased = and still am. Remember that there is an absolute = advice, good assistance, and good will on this list. Given the state of = amazing! Whatever you decide to build, give it = it and boasting about it in 50 years time! Good luck, and all the =best, Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFF362.51C0D600-- from dickay@alltel.net Fri Jul 21 08:06:29 2000 e6LD6SG15186 IAA04396; Subject: Re: gatherings Organization: Bob, I wasn't aware that there was going to be a gathering in Alaska. Oh,where you thinking of the Southern Rodmakers Gathering in Arkansas (AR.)?That is in late October. Mountain Home has an airport with a feeder linethat flies into it. Otherwise, its Springfield, MO. or Northwest ArkansasRegional Airport (Walton (Wal-Mart), Tyson (Chicken)) that is between andwest of Springdale, Rogers, and Bentonville. A couple hour drive fromeither one for those new to the area. Sorry, always have to gig those whoabbreviate Arkansas AK.Dick FuhrmanFort Smith, AR. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: gatherings Hey Guys,Back from vacation and back to work. I need some info. I will beattending the Roscoe gathering in sept. I would also like to attend thegathering in AK. Can any one tell me what airport would be best to flyinto and what would be the hotel i would want to stay in as well as thedates of the gathering. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 21 08:27:27 2000 e6LDRQG16063 Fri, 21 Jul 2000 06:27:23 -0700 Subject: Re: gatherings Bob,The Southern Rodmakers Gathering will be held October 26-28, atFulton's Lodge outside Mountain Home, Arkansas. You've already receivedsome good information on the small local airports. The nearest majorairport is probably at Little Rock, Ark. Several others have flown toLittle Rock in the past and rented cars there. I think that's what Haroldand Eileen Demarest usually do.We would love to have you join us. Later today I'll try to get out some additional materials on theSRG. Harry BoydRobert Venneri wrote: Hey Guys,Back from vacation and back to work. I need some info. I will beattending the Roscoe gathering in sept. I would also like to attend thegathering in AK. Can any one tell me what airport would be best to flyinto and what would be the hotel i would want to stay in as well as thedates of the gathering. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 21 08:35:07 2000 e6LDZ6G16514 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:34:10 -0500 Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking I started doing business from my home, in 1968, and have always chargedoffmy shop expenses if declaring income from work done there. This includesseveral thousand dollars in machines, etc.. If you don't charge off yourexpenses, then don't declare your hobby sales as income ! It's easy to notrun such income through your bank accounts !Once you declare it a business, then travel, etc., can be charged of. Thegovernment as usual, has over loaded this phase, saying you can only chargeoff about 40% of actual expense. This is to get big corporations who coverwives cars, etc. ! Keep good records, and take every cent you can account about $1K ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking The only thing that really makes me consider turning this hobby into abusiness is the absolutely galling rules that the IRS has for hobbyincome.According to an accountant I know, you can't consider ANYTHING excepttheactual materials that are in the product you sell, a cost - No portion ofthe cost of tools or even consumable supplies (though he did mention thatyou probably wouldn't get hassled about the consumables as long as theyweredisposable, single use items). It just bugs the living s*** out of me thatIcan't take any deduction at all for my expenses if rodmaking is a hobby,butthey still expect me to pay tax on any amount of profit (even if thatprofitgoes right back into buying more supplies). I still haven't gone through the formalities required to transform myhobbyinto a business, though I've been seriously considering it for a couple ofyears now. I don't make a lot of rods, but as a hobbyist, you'd think I'dhave a couple of the rods I've made laying around somewhere. As of today,you'd be wrong because I don't own a single one of the rods I've made! The one thing my accountant friend was unsure about was whetherhobbyistswere still required to pay the federal excise taxes (it's a little funkysince you're required to have an employer ID number to pay the excisetaxesbut, as a hobbyist, you aren't a business and shouldn't need the EID. Therules simply state that the tax is owed on any equipment sold by amanufacturer and a manufacturer is defined as any person who produces ataxable article from new or raw material). Anyone have a definitive wordonthat one? ---Tim ----- Original Message -----From: Alec Stansell Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:23 PMSubject: re: The "business" of rodmaking I'm just getting started on my first rod, and am having a great time. Ishared my enthusiasm with a couple of fishing friends, both of whom said"gee - build me one - I'll buy one!" Hmmm... not so fast!!I have owned and operated a fly shop and tied flies commercially in thepast - both got to be a real drag the long tedious shop hours (whileeveryone else fished!) drove me made... and as for tying fliescommercially- I'm sure there is a special place in heaven for pro-tyers, as they'vealready spent their time in hell!!Rodmaking as work? Work is for money. Fishing, and my tackle-junkiehabits, are for fun. No deadlines, no debts, no-one breathing done yourneck. I'll just take my time and plane...plane...plane...plane... Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 21 08:59:53 2000 e6LDxqG17904 Subject: Re: gatherings In a message dated 7/20/00 5:44:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvenneri@ulster.net writes: Bob, Any chance that you'll be coming out to the Bishop, CA clave in October? Don Burns from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 21 09:29:01 2000 e6LET0G19818 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Just another curious Rookie question PHY Driggs. A nice 7'2" 4 wt. Handles nearly all my fishing needs, and it is a joy to cast. Good luck.Bob At 08:25 PM 7/20/00 -0500, Tilo C. Wege wrote:Hello Again,Still gathering everything for my first attempt at cane rod building. I havenot decided the particular rod I want to build and therefore this question.What was, or will be, the first rod you build and why? I know there are alot of variables, but humor me if you would.Thanks,Tilo Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jul 21 09:39:19 2000 e6LEdIG20327 07:39:18 PDT Subject: Re: Just another curious Rookie question yep! the driggs is hard to beat. timothy --- bob maulucci wrote:PHY Driggs. A nice 7'2" 4 wt. Handles nearly all myfishing needs, and it is a joy to cast. Good luck.Bob At 08:25 PM 7/20/00 -0500, Tilo C. Wege wrote:Hello Again,Still gathering everything for my first attempt atcane rod building. I havenot decided the particular rod I want to build andtherefore this question.What was, or will be, the first rod you build andwhy? I know there are alot of variables, but humor me if you would.Thanks,Tilo Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Jul 21 09:43:08 2000 e6LEh7G20537 Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking Tim:Just a note to say there's a big difference in paying taxes on "Income"versus taxes on "Profit". If you're paying taxes on profit, you've alreadyfactored in your costs. I share your frustration with the IRS. But no hope in sight while theparty that controls both Houses of Congress won't refuse to fund theNational Endowment for the Arts.Ed-----Original Message-----From: Tim Klein Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking The only thing that really makes me consider turning this hobby into abusiness is the absolutely galling rules that the IRS has for hobby income.According to an accountant I know, you can't consider ANYTHING except theactual materials that are in the product you sell, a cost - No portion ofthe cost of tools or even consumable supplies (though he did mention thatyou probably wouldn't get hassled about the consumables as long as theyweredisposable, single use items). It just bugs the living s*** out of me thatIcan't take any deduction at all for my expenses if rodmaking is a hobby,butthey still expect me to pay tax on any amount of profit (even if thatprofitgoes right back into buying more supplies). I still haven't gone through the formalities required to transform myhobbyinto a business, though I've been seriously considering it for a couple ofyears now. I don't make a lot of rods, but as a hobbyist, you'd think I'dhave a couple of the rods I've made laying around somewhere. As of today,you'd be wrong because I don't own a single one of the rods I've made! The one thing my accountant friend was unsure about was whetherhobbyistswere still required to pay the federal excise taxes (it's a little funkysince you're required to have an employer ID number to pay the excisetaxesbut, as a hobbyist, you aren't a business and shouldn't need the EID. Therules simply state that the tax is owed on any equipment sold by amanufacturer and a manufacturer is defined as any person who produces ataxable article from new or raw material). Anyone have a definitive word onthat one? ---Tim from rvenneri@ulster.net Fri Jul 21 09:44:05 2000 e6LEi5G20669 (172.16.0.179) Organization: Venneri's Subject: Re: gatherings Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/20/00 5:44:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,rvenneri@ulster.net writes: Back from vacation and back to work. I need some info. I will beattending the Roscoe gathering in sept. I would also like to attend thegathering in AK. Can any one tell me what airport would be best to flyinto and what would be the hotel i would want to stay in as well as thedates of the gathering. Best RegardsBob V >> Bob, Any chance that you'll be coming out to the Bishop, CA clave in October? Don BurnsDon,No I will not be able to make the show in CA this year maybe next. Best RegardsBob V from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Jul 21 09:53:42 2000 e6LErfG21062 KAA24662; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking ALso recall that you can only write off expenses to the extent that you haveincome from the enterprise. nobler wrote: I started doing business from my home, in 1968, and have always chargedoffmy shop expenses if declaring income from work done there. This includesseveral thousand dollars in machines, etc.. If you don't charge off yourexpenses, then don't declare your hobby sales as income ! It's easy to notrun such income through your bank accounts !Once you declare it a business, then travel, etc., can be charged of. Thegovernment as usual, has over loaded this phase, saying you can onlychargeoff about 40% of actual expense. This is to get big corporations who coverwives cars, etc. ! Keep good records, and take every cent you can account about $1K ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tim Klein" Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:42 AMSubject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking The only thing that really makes me consider turning this hobby into abusiness is the absolutely galling rules that the IRS has for hobbyincome.According to an accountant I know, you can't consider ANYTHING excepttheactual materials that are in the product you sell, a cost - No portion ofthe cost of tools or even consumable supplies (though he did mentionthatyou probably wouldn't get hassled about the consumables as long as theyweredisposable, single use items). It just bugs the living s*** out of me thatIcan't take any deduction at all for my expenses if rodmaking is a hobby,butthey still expect me to pay tax on any amount of profit (even if thatprofitgoes right back into buying more supplies). I still haven't gone through the formalities required to transform myhobbyinto a business, though I've been seriously considering it for a couple ofyears now. I don't make a lot of rods, but as a hobbyist, you'd think I'dhave a couple of the rods I've made laying around somewhere. As oftoday,you'd be wrong because I don't own a single one of the rods I've made! The one thing my accountant friend was unsure about was whetherhobbyistswere still required to pay the federal excise taxes (it's a little funkysince you're required to have an employer ID number to pay the excisetaxesbut, as a hobbyist, you aren't a business and shouldn't need the EID. Therules simply state that the tax is owed on any equipment sold by amanufacturer and a manufacturer is defined as any person who producesataxable article from new or raw material). Anyone have a definitive wordonthat one? ---Tim ----- Original Message -----From: Alec Stansell Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:23 PMSubject: re: The "business" of rodmaking I'm just getting started on my first rod, and am having a great time. Ishared my enthusiasm with a couple of fishing friends, both of whomsaid"gee - build me one - I'll buy one!" Hmmm... not so fast!!I have owned and operated a fly shop and tied flies commercially in thepast - both got to be a real drag the long tedious shop hours (whileeveryone else fished!) drove me made... and as for tying fliescommercially- I'm sure there is a special place in heaven for pro-tyers, as they'vealready spent their time in hell!!Rodmaking as work? Work is for money. Fishing, and my tackle-junkiehabits, are for fun. No deadlines, no debts, no-one breathing done yourneck. I'll just take my time and plane...plane...plane...plane... Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jul 21 10:12:09 2000 e6LFC8G21907 08:12:09 PDT greetings to all! i have a book by arnold gingrichentitled "the well tempered angler". does anyone knowof another fishing book he has written? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from jourdoktorn@chello.se Fri Jul 21 10:15:59 2000 e6LFFsG22132 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license0be0198aab3c5c3dfea01242ca021ddf)with ESMTP id ;Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:15:53 +0200 Subject: Re: New question on Hardy rod Shawn,this seems to be the taper that won the European casting tournament inFrance 1911. It was here John James Hardy cast a world record 81 feet withthis 7 ft Palakona. After the tournament the rod was christened the C.C. deFrance and its production span 50 years until 1961. There were other lengtbuilt up to just over 9 ft but the 7 ft rod is the famous one. As atournament rod it is stiffer than the norm and throws a very tight,controlled loop. It came with one tip only. There was never a line weightgiven for these tournament rods but a #4-5 should match, I have one myself.About the silk. I have never understood why people try to experimentthemselfs with material to restore a Hardy rod when the simplest way is justto contact the House of Hardy in England. They have most of these old silksstill available and can also tell you if there was a color preserver used.If they should not have the silk in stock they could give you the brand andnumber.Best luck,Jan Nystrom, Sweden Shawn Pineo wrote: Friends,I have a question on a rod that a friend is restoring. Itis a Hardy CC de France 2 pc single tip 7'0" (butt 43", tip 42"") Therod is a deep caramel color with intermediate wraps every inch or so. Ithas a cork reel seat with a pinned aluminum cap and sliding aluminum D/Lband ( E58689) on it. I estimate that # at 1946???The words "Palakona Regd Trade Mark The c.c. DeFrance" are written in a spiral down the shaft. It has blued ferrulesand the male has a small 2 stamped in it (even though there is only onetip and the bag is for a single tip?)The stripper is tiny and has a clear agate insert as does thetip top. There is no hook keeper.The rod bag is a camo pattern heavy canvas with the Hardy labelon the flap with a rod in hand.The varnish is good and everything is nice except it ismissing one snake guide which is why my friend has it. The problem isthat we are having a hard time identifying the thread color. It lookslike a light bronze or tarnished penny brownish color. It is fairlyheavy silk (at least compared to my Pearsalls gossamer) and when I tookof one of the unraveled pieces and examined it closely it looks to melike a light tan color? I don't think the rod had color preserver on thewraps ??? although the wraps do not appear to be too translucent.Itreminds me of some tan silk I got from Darrel Lee a while back.Any help in identifying the thread color would be greatlyappreciated. Any other info or comments on this rod would also bewelcomed! And what is the line wt?? I'm guessing it is the same as the 8foot model?? I don't know much about Hardy so any help would be nice. Shawn from eharrison241@earthlink.net Fri Jul 21 11:36:47 2000 e6LGalG24451 JAA29992; Subject: Re: AMERICAN TROUT FISHINGErnie ----- Original Message ----- greetings to all! i have a book by arnold gingrichentitled "the well tempered angler". does anyone knowof another fishing book he has written? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from anglport@con2.com Fri Jul 21 12:35:32 2000 e6LHZVG26103 (SMTPD32-6.00) id A8E414890276; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 13:31:16 -0400 Subject: Re: e6LHZWG26104 Tim,There are also "The Fishing In Print" and "The Joys of Trout", at least. Ifound all three of them enjoyable.Art At 08:12 AM 07/21/2000 -0700, timothy troester wrote:greetings to all! i have a book by arnold gingrichentitled "the well tempered angler". does anyone knowof another fishing book he has written? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from ingvar.cane@swipnet.se Fri Jul 21 13:18:56 2000 e6LIItG27292 Fri, 21 Jul 2000 20:18:28 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re. Hardy C.C.deFrance boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFF350.BF34B920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFF350.BF34B920 Dear friends, Last year when I restored a C.C.de France I also had some problems =finding the correct color of the silk for that rod. The rod was built =1947 and it was 8 ft and 2-pc. I asked Hardys about the silkcolor and = Just as Jan says these are quite stiff rods compared to other rods and =also very powerfull, I was able to cast a full 30 yds flyline whitout =any problems at all. 1999-1947=3D 52 years old and still going strong =that=B4s not bad so if you want a good rod and for your grandchildren to = I am interested in those Hardyrods, " the Ricardi" and "the Continentel" =is there anyone out there who can give me some help ?? Best regards Ingvar Nilsson, Sweden ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFF350.BF34B920 Dear friends, Last year when I restored a C.C.de = had some problems finding the correct color of the silk for that rod. = was built 1947 and it was 8 ft and 2-pc. I asked Hardys about the = they helped me to solv the problem. Just as Jan says these are quite stiff = compared to other rods and also very powerfull, I was able to cast a = flyline whitout any problems at all. 1999-1947=3D 52 years old and still = strong that=B4s not bad so if you want a good rod and for your = use sometime in the future make it from bamboo. I am interested in those Hardyrods, " = and "the Continentel" is there anyone out there who can give me some = ?? Best regards Ingvar Nilsson, =Sweden ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BFF350.BF34B920-- from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 21 14:24:02 2000 e6LJO2G29387 Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking In a message dated 7/21/00 7:54:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,earsdws@duke.edu writes: Any expenses greater than income is called a loss. Losses can be carried forward and applied towards future gains, but there's a limit of carrying over only 50% of the loss and also a time limit (I believe) of 5 years that those losses may be applied towards gains? You must depreciate all capital equipment over their lifetime. (depends upon equipment) or IF your capital purchases are less than a certain amount -then a small business may write that equipment off in a single year. Always check with an expert. A fully depreciated piece of equipment that is sold represents profit and must be reported as such. You may also write off that portion of your home (in %) and any utilities (same %) too. BUT if you take this writeoff and later sell the house, then all depreciated value must be deduced from the original purchase price of the home. I never wrote the house off due to the pain-in-the-butt record keeping vs gain in tax savings value. (as with most tax law!!) Any travel expenses must have receipts to back them up. A log of all auto expenses including mileage must be maintained. An auto may be depreciated over life or a std. deduction per business mile taken. Entertainment costs are limits to about 40% of the their total cost. Plus you must maintain a record of who was at the entertainment meeting, what istheir position in the company that you were entertaining and what was the purpose of the meeting. Dome makes a nice accounting book that allows you to enter monthly incomeand expense receipts - for a written accounting log. Quick Books and others have electronic accounting and you can print themout to be saved for the 7 years or more that you need to maintain all business records. If you depreciate your home, then you must maintain those records for ~seven years after you sell sell the house and most likely all bus. records backing up that claim. A business isn't a business until you make your first sale - so sell something, no matter how small, quickly! All IMHO - not a tax expert, just a poor slob that ran a home business for years - use at you own risk and results may vary........... If it was simple we won't need accountants. (nor tax lawyers) and Always get an accountant to look over your books and offer ways to betterrun your bus. (tax wise) It's a business expense that can save you lots of grief with the IRS. IMHO, IMHO, IMHO............... Don B. from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 21 14:24:07 2000 e6LJO6G29396 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver wire follow-up The 20 gauge wire arrived today. Excellent service and the price is price - just make sure that you are ordering NS wire before you click the order off into space. I guess I screwed up by not printing out a copy of the page before sending it off. Don Burns PS - I now have a lifetime supply of ferrule pinning wire! In a message dated 7/18/00 5:16:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, destinycon@mindspring.com writes: All, I promised a followup on my web source of NS after I recieved my order. Well, it arrived and upon openning th epackage I found that the companyhad subsitutied brass wire for the 18 guage NS wire that I needed the most. The 20 gauge was NS and is fine. I've email them and I'm waiting to hear back. So at this time, I can't say that I'd give them a thumbs up - yet. Don Burns PS - If anyone else wants to try them knowing the problem that I've had - I'll publish the web site at this time: http://www.wire- sculpture.com/practicewire.htm from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 21 17:34:06 2000 e6LMY5G04792 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: plastics I wonder if any list members have had any luck with machining plastics for reel seats or ferrule plugs. I saw some pen turning blanks at the woodworker's store, and they looked rather neat. What wouldbe a source for sizes big enough for turning reel seats and plugs?Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jul 21 17:46:39 2000 e6LMkbG05155 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:45:40 -0500 Subject: Re: plastics Look in your Yellow Pages for a Plastic distributor Bob. I buy Delrin inbulk rod sizes up to 2.5", down to 1/4" diameter. It comes in black, as wellas white. I'm sure the white can be dyed most any color. This can be donewith Rit dye, boiling the plastic in the dye, before machining it. Delrinwill shrink, so start with an over size diameter. Your lathe tools will needa greater cutting angle than that used for metal. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: plastics I wonder if any list members have had any luck with machining plastics forreel seats or ferrule plugs. I saw some pen turning blanks at thewoodworker's store, and they looked rather neat. What wouldbe a source for sizes big enough for turning reel seats and plugs?Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from wgray@uidaho.edu Fri Jul 21 18:17:26 2000 e6LNHPG05769 QAA11223; 21 Jul 2000 23:19:33 UT Subject: Re: Hardy rod e6LNHQG05770 Shawn, I didn't see any Hardy tapers in the RODMAKERS archive. Any chance of measuring this and starting a Hardy section? If these are available somewhere else perhaps someone can enlighten me. Wilson------- Forwarded message follows -------Date sent: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:19:37 +0200 Subject: Re: New question on Hardy rod Shawn,this seems to be the taper that won the European casting tournament inFrance 1911. It was here John James Hardy cast a world record 81 feet with this7 ft Palakona. After the tournament the rod was christened the C.C. de Franceand its production span 50 years until 1961. There were other lengt built uptojust over 9 ft but the 7 ft rod is the famous one. As a tournament rod it isstiffer than the norm and throws a very tight, controlled loop. It came withone tip only. There was never a line weight given for these tournament rods buta #4-5 should match, I have one myself.About the silk. I have never understood why people try to experimentthemselfs with material to restore a Hardy rod when the simplest way is justtocontact the House of Hardy in England. They have most of these old silks stillavailable and can also tell you if there was a color preserver used. If theyshould not have the silk in stock they could give you the brand and number.Best luck, Jan Nystrom, Sweden Shawn Pineo wrote: Friends,I have a question on a rod that a friend is restoring. Itis a Hardy CC de France 2 pc single tip 7'0" (butt 43", tip 42"") Therod is a deep caramel color with intermediate wraps every inch or so. It hasa cork reel seat with a pinned aluminum cap and sliding aluminum D/L band (E58689) on it. I estimate that # at 1946???The words "Palakona Regd Trade Mark The c.c. DeFrance" are written in a spiral down the shaft. It has blued ferrulesand the male has a small 2 stamped in it (even though there is only onetip and the bag is for a single tip?)The stripper is tiny and has a clear agate insert as does thetip top. There is no hook keeper.The rod bag is a camo pattern heavy canvas with the Hardy labelon the flap with a rod in hand.The varnish is good and everything is nice except it ismissing one snake guide which is why my friend has it. The problem isthat we are having a hard time identifying the thread color. It lookslike a light bronze or tarnished penny brownish color. It is fairlyheavy silk (at least compared to my Pearsalls gossamer) and when I tookof one of the unraveled pieces and examined it closely it looks to melike a light tan color? I don't think the rod had color preserver on thewraps ??? although the wraps do not appear to be too translucent.Itremindsme of some tan silk I got from Darrel Lee a while back.Any help in identifying the thread color would be greatlyappreciated. Any other info or comments on this rod would also bewelcomed! And what is the line wt?? I'm guessing it is the same as the 8footmodel?? I don't know much about Hardy so any help would be nice. Shawn ------- End of forwarded message ------------------- $$$ ------------------- $$$ --- ------------ "...there are those who live life, and there are those who sit and watch it on TV..."Jimmy BuffettA Pirate Looks at 50-------------------------------------------- --------------- C. W. Gray 208.736.3622 (PH)Twin Falls R/E Center 736.0843 (Fax)PO Box 1827Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 wgray@uidaho.edu ========================================================== from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 21 18:25:30 2000 e6LNPUG05984 Subject: Re: an idea In a message dated 7/18/00 6:52:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: I thought the Sir D was a 7'6" 4 wt? Don Burns from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Jul 21 18:42:57 2000 e6LNguG06377 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: an idea The Sir D is Wayne Cattanach`s 7` #4(#7042) slightly modified, but ithas been converted from 6`3" #2-4, 7` #2-4 and 7`6" #2-4..... regardsdanny -------Work From: Canerods@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:25:09 EDT Subject: Re: an idea In a message dated 7/18/00 6:52:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: latest rod, a 2 wt 6'3" 3pc Sir D >> I thought the Sir D was a 7'6" 4 wt? Don Burns from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jul 21 20:09:22 2000 e6M19LG07693 Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:09:17 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: an idea The original was, this is an altered taperShawn. Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/18/00 6:52:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: latest rod, a 2 wt 6'3" 3pc Sir D >> I thought the Sir D was a 7'6" 4 wt? Don Burns from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jul 21 20:50:16 2000 e6M1oFG08259 Subject: Check this out http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from channer1@rmi.net Fri Jul 21 21:28:14 2000 e6M2SDG09157 Subject: Re: Check this out Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gave them mine.John from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jul 21 22:12:23 2000 e6M3CMG10030 Subject: Re: Check this out I did too. Never liked Sage rods although I made up a bunchof blanks, will not have anything to do with them at all now.Am going to see if I can see that video.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gave them mine.John from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 21 22:23:36 2000 e6M3NTG10289 Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:23:09 +0800 Subject: Driggs & the Sir D The Driggs is an excellent taper. Said to be the best use of 3oz of bambooever devised. I could be wrong but I'm pretty certain the Sir D is the original WC 7' #4in Wayne's book while DH's modification is called the Darryl Hayashidavariation.Both are being converted to different configurations. Tony At 01:42 AM 7/23/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:The Sir D is Wayne Cattanach`s 7` #4(#7042) slightly modified, but ithas been converted from 6`3" #2-4, 7` #2-4 and 7`6" #2-4..... regardsdanny -------Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: Canerods@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:25:09 EDT Subject: Re: an idea In a message dated 7/18/00 6:52:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: latest rod, a 2 wt 6'3" 3pc Sir D >> I thought the Sir D was a 7'6" 4 wt? Don Burns /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 21 22:30:36 2000 e6M3UXG10546 Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:30:06 +0800 Subject: Bamboo V Sage About a year back I cast a Sage 7" #4 while fishing with a few other peopleincluding my son Aaron who is a dab hand with his WC 7' #4 which he hadwith him.When I cast the Sage I thought it was very similar to the Sir D but didn'tmention it. By the end of the afternoon everybody in the group had castboth rods and everybody mentioned the similarity of the two rods ie. theSir D and Sage.Now, I'm not sure of the model of the Sage or even if it's still inproduction but while the Sir D is reasonably quick it struck me as strangeSage would go out of their way to slow a rod to the point it was very muchlike a bamboo rod by accident. No? Tony At 08:51 PM 7/21/00 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 21 23:08:42 2000 e6M48fG11144 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:03:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Check this out Well, I threw in my 2 cents worth in the thread on that site... actually, Igot a little carried away and threw in a couple of dollars worth. Everyonewho hasn't read that, should... very interesting.... Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Check this out I did too. Never liked Sage rods although I made up a bunchof blanks, will not have anything to do with them at all now.Am going to see if I can see that video.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gave them mine.John from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jul 21 23:09:27 2000 e6M49QG11230 21:09:27 PDT Subject: Re: Check this out you know guys, this is apples and oranges. i don'tthink they're the same thing at all. it's ridiculous bamboo", or "better than bamboo". they show more thana little bit of ignorance doing this, or maybe they'resmart. they know the real deal when they see it andhave to market what they have. i have often marvelledat how sure some uninformed individuals can be. ..buti also think we miss the boat when we try to compare abamboo with some particular graphite....apples andoranges.... timothy --- Tony Spezio wrote:I did too. Never liked Sage rods although I made upa bunchof blanks, will not have anything to do with themat all now.Am going to see if I can see that video.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gavethem mine.John ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from bh887@lafn.org Sat Jul 22 00:35:46 2000 e6M5ZjG12539 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking Tim, they are sending you a message and you don't seem to be reading it.There IS a way! Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking I was just looking at the post I sent and I'd like to make a correction... When I said you can't include tooling, etc. in your cost, I meant thatthiscan't be used to offset what the government would consider "profit" on arod. You CAN deduct your hobby expenses in some cases, they just make itdifficult; You must itemize deductions on your return, you can only claimexpenses in excess of a certain percentage of your annual income, and youcan only claim expenses up to the amount you made on the hobby (nolossesallowed). Considering the costs of tools, materials, supplies, etc., there isabsolutely no way I've made money on rodmaking. Since the governmentconsiders my hobby sales income though, I've had to become a bookkeeperinorder to keep rodmaking from costing me even MORE money (in the formoftaxes). As a hobby, the government should let you keep things as simple aspossible;A simple balance sheet with costs on one side and sales on the other.Oncesales exceed costs, record the profit on your taxes. As long as it'scostingyou more than you make, you don't have to play the tax game. Unfortunately, it's not that simple and I've got to keep decent books tokeep from giving them more money than they deserve. As long as I'm doingitanyway, I might as well get the benefit of writing off losses 2 out of 5years. ---Tim ----- Original Message -----From: Tim Klein Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:42 AMSubject: Re: The "business" of rodmaking The only thing that really makes me consider turning this hobby into abusiness is the absolutely galling rules that the IRS has for hobbyincome.According to an accountant I know, you can't consider ANYTHING excepttheactual materials that are in the product you sell, a cost - No portionofthe cost of tools or even consumable supplies (though he did mentionthatyou probably wouldn't get hassled about the consumables as long as theyweredisposable, single use items). It just bugs the living s*** out of methatIcan't take any deduction at all for my expenses if rodmaking is a hobby,butthey still expect me to pay tax on any amount of profit (even if thatprofitgoes right back into buying more supplies). I still haven't gone through the formalities required to transform myhobbyinto a business, though I've been seriously considering it for a coupleofyears now. I don't make a lot of rods, but as a hobbyist, you'd thinkI'dhave a couple of the rods I've made laying around somewhere. As oftoday,you'd be wrong because I don't own a single one of the rods I've made! The one thing my accountant friend was unsure about was whetherhobbyistswere still required to pay the federal excise taxes (it's a little funkysince you're required to have an employer ID number to pay the excisetaxesbut, as a hobbyist, you aren't a business and shouldn't need the EID.Therules simply state that the tax is owed on any equipment sold by amanufacturer and a manufacturer is defined as any person who producesataxable article from new or raw material). Anyone have a definitive wordonthat one? ---Tim ----- Original Message -----From: Alec Stansell Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:23 PMSubject: re: The "business" of rodmaking I'm just getting started on my first rod, and am having a great time.Ishared my enthusiasm with a couple of fishing friends, both of whomsaid"gee - build me one - I'll buy one!" Hmmm... not so fast!!I have owned and operated a fly shop and tied flies commercially inthepast - both got to be a real drag the long tedious shop hours (whileeveryone else fished!) drove me made... and as for tying fliescommercially- I'm sure there is a special place in heaven for pro-tyers, asthey'vealready spent their time in hell!!Rodmaking as work? Work is for money. Fishing, and my tackle-junkiehabits, are for fun. No deadlines, no debts, no-one breathing doneyourneck. I'll just take my time and plane...plane...plane...plane... Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Jul 22 04:07:50 2000 e6M97lG14326 Subject: Splitting - Richard and Bob Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF40F.1AFAE400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF40F.1AFAE400 Hello all Just been down and split half a culm using the method described by =Richard and Bob - hand splitting. In my opinion, it's amazing. I have split 1/4 (that is, one half of a butt piece) into tip pieces, =and got 20 usable strips; and the other 1/4 gave me a comfortable 12 =butt strips. You couldn't light a fire with the waste, and they could easily have =been split finer. Many thanks for the tip. My rod-making nightmare has become a pleasure. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF40F.1AFAE400 Hello all Just been down and split half a culm = method described by Richard and Bob - hand splitting. In my opinion, it's =amazing. I have split 1/4 (that is, one half of = piece) into tip pieces, and got 20 usable strips; and the other 1/4 gave = comfortable 12 butt strips. You couldn't light a fire with the = could easily have been split finer. Many thanks for the tip. My rod-making= has become a pleasure. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF40F.1AFAE400-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 22 06:17:08 2000 e6MBH7G15532 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:17:02 +0000 Subject: Re: Check this out I believe Siems was editorializing. Plus it is going to be hard to makeany headway by comparing graphite to graphite. One does need a foil toplay off of. What I found as most interesting was the response ratio, with a 26%positive answer for bamboo. I believe if the same question had beenposed five years ago that a 10% response would have been more likely. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 06:56:59 2000 e6MButG16028 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 06:58:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Check this out There's a special place for the plastic rods. When you are banging around ina boat, and in rough water conditions, it's the perfect place for them ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check this out I did too. Never liked Sage rods although I made up a bunch> of blanks, willnot have anything to do with them at all now.Am going to see if I can see that video.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gave them mine.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 07:13:08 2000 e6MCD7G16313 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:14:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Check this out Good point ! Even a Sage, at a somewhat elevated price, is much cheaper, atleast dollar-wise, than a decent cane version of a casting machine ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check this out I believe Siems was editorializing. Plus it is going to be hard to makeany headway by comparing graphite to graphite. One does need a foil toplay off of. What I found as most interesting was the response ratio, with a 26%positive answer for bamboo. I believe if the same question had beenposed five years ago that a 10% response would have been more likely. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jul 22 07:31:31 2000 e6MCVVG16629 (204.186.33.150) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Check this out marty wrote: I can't bad mouth graphite . Even though I make cane I still feel fordistance casting/weight ratio nothing comes close to graphite. I alsolike glass and do have some short high end glass rods. Glass and caneare very similar in action but glass is still "plastic". I guess here ishow I feel on the matter. For Saltwater and "parking lot" castingGraphite is king. For trout fishing however, glass and cane are tops. mind of what Len Cadella once said "if all there was to fishing wascatching fish, not only would we be using graphite rods we would also beusing worms!" Marty There's a special place for the plastic rods. When you are banging aroundina boat, and in rough water conditions, it's the perfect place for them ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:13 PMSubject: Re: Check this out I did too. Never liked Sage rods although I made up a bunchof blanks, will not have anything to do with them at all now.Am going to see if I can see that video.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gave them mine.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 07:46:52 2000 e6MCkqG16945 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:48:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Check this out Well, I probably have several $K, in graphite/boron casting/spinning rods, from my pro bass fishing days. These with Dacron, and now the even newerlines, give a "feel" when fishing plastic and pork, worms, lizards, and thelike, better than any other. We used to joke that we could tell thedifference between a Bud, and Miller beer can, on the bottom ! When it comes to timing a fly delivery, and presentation, I've never castthe equal of my PHY's, in plastic anything ! This has nothing to do with thelovely look and feel of fine cane either ! Where I draw the line, is inrough salt water usage. I started fishing the salt in 1953, with a PHY "LeeCuddy Powerhouse". I soon put it away, when out on a boat, with others inrough conditions. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check this out marty wrote: I can't bad mouth graphite . Even though I make cane I still feel fordistance casting/weight ratio nothing comes close to graphite. I alsolike glass and do have some short high end glass rods. Glass and caneare very similar in action but glass is still "plastic". I guess here ishow I feel on the matter. For Saltwater and "parking lot" castingGraphite is king. For trout fishing however, glass and cane are tops. inmind of what Len Cadella once said "if all there was to fishing wascatching fish, not only would we be using graphite rods we would also beusing worms!" Marty There's a special place for the plastic rods. When you are bangingaround ina boat, and in rough water conditions, it's the perfect place for them! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:13 PMSubject: Re: Check this out I did too. Never liked Sage rods although I made up a bunchof blanks, will not have anything to do with them at all now.Am going to see if I can see that video.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gave them mine.John from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sat Jul 22 08:24:28 2000 e6MDORG18731 (62.180.7.85) Subject: Rod turning motor Hi List I live in Germany and need a rod turner (electric Turning motor) forvarnishing my wraps. I know that they are available in the U.S but wework on 220Volts here. Is there anybody on the list in Europe who knowswhere I can get one?I could try getting hold of a Bar-B-Q turning motor I know, but if thereis a rod motor available I would prefer that. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Stuart from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jul 22 08:41:03 2000 e6MDf2G19109 Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:40:58 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Check this out Friends,this articles raises several observations about thedifferences between us and the graphite building companies/users.First of all I hope all Sage is doing is recognizing it hasnew competition and taking evasive action not going for the throat. Thatis one thing I like about our craft, we, at least those of us I haveexperienced, are not a cut- throat, blood hungry, stab your fellowbuilders in the back sort like the big graphite co. We are content toshare our market with each other and not attack every flaw in someoneelse's product, that is their forte. On occasion, I have even referredcustomers to other builders if I thought that they could better servetheir needs or I was backlogged, I can't see Sage saying, "No, Mr.Jones, I really think that Orvis could sell you a rod better suited toyour taste and besides it's $20 cheaper!".Second observation, as for comparisons......there are none,period. Fishing is still fishing whether you are using a stick with linetied on it or a top of the line million dollar piece of the latesttechnology. Those of us who fish bamboo love it's qualities and forgiveit's faults.You can fish with other rods but to me cane completes theexperience. Fishing with anything else now feelslike............Strawberry shortcake without the whippedcream.........sex with a condom (safe, but no where near thesame!)............an awesome song redone by some loser teeny bopperband........this list server without the colorful, variedcastmembers....I could go on but you get the point right?Perhaps if Sage feels that cane is a threat, they will stopslamming cane and start a bamboo line of their own! ;^)My twisted 2cents worth, ShawnTony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jul 22 08:49:54 2000 e6MDnrG19365 Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:49:48 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Rod turning motor Stuart,this may not be any help in this case, but it may come in handyif there is ever something you are forced to buy over here. They have littleadapter plug sets for us North Americans who travel in Europe. They allow usto use our 120 volt things on your system.I recall that they are fairlyinexpensive??Shawn stuart moultrie wrote: Hi List I live in Germany and need a rod turner (electric Turning motor) forvarnishing my wraps. I know that they are available in the U.S but wework on 220Volts here. Is there anybody on the list in Europe who knowswhere I can get one?I could try getting hold of a Bar-B-Q turning motor I know, but if thereis a rod motor available I would prefer that. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Stuart from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 08:54:16 2000 e6MDsFG19551 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 08:53:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod turning motor When I was in Europe, I took along a converting transformer, to operate my115V. shaver, etc.. I would think this would be the easiest way to use a"turner" motor from here. Try :www.cabelas.com GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod turning motor Hi List I live in Germany and need a rod turner (electric Turning motor) forvarnishing my wraps. I know that they are available in the U.S but wework on 220Volts here. Is there anybody on the list in Europe who knowswhere I can get one?I could try getting hold of a Bar-B-Q turning motor I know, but if thereis a rod motor available I would prefer that. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Stuart from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Jul 22 10:11:14 2000 e6MFBDG20546 Subject: Fw: Check this out I did too!!Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Check this out Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony;Everyone has an opinion about something, I gave them mine.John from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 22 11:48:21 2000 e6MGmKG22038 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:48:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Check this out Maybe I'm missing the point here. But do we really care what thegraphite rod industry thinks about cane rodmakers? Those plastic rodmanufacturers that thought it was worthwhile to cater to a caneflyfishing market did so. Some of them even offer a variety of tapers. I think graphite rods have their place in the flyfishing market. Frommy point of view, they introduced me to a sport that I knew preciouslittle about. My curiosity about to what level I could take myflyfishing led me to building graphite rods from blanks, then to fishingbamboo rods, then to rodmaking. On a commercial level, I don't think most of us could ever dream ofcompeting with mass market driven, mass production companies likeSages. They're just too big. We are (in my opinion) maybe just alittle bigger than a cottage "industry". Like some of you have alreadysaid, we would be comparing apples to oranges. Unless we're making San'Gria, it just doesn't work. Will my flyfishing/rodmaking disease ever subside? Probably not, but Inever really cared much about what folks like the Sage Rod Companythought of me anyway. Have a good weekend folks... Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jul 22 12:02:59 2000 e6MH2wG22554 10:02:59 PDT Subject: Re: Check this out yes, i think this is to the heart of the matter. if icared what other people thought or if it was important or make bamboo rods. it's certainly less crowdedbeing this wrong. timothy --- Dennis Haftel wrote:Maybe I'm missing the point here. But do we reallycare what thegraphite rod industry thinks about cane rodmakers? Those plastic rodmanufacturers that thought it was worthwhile tocater to a caneflyfishing market did so. Some of them even offer avariety of tapers. I think graphite rods have their place in theflyfishing market. Frommy point of view, they introduced me to a sport thatI knew preciouslittle about. My curiosity about to what level Icould take myflyfishing led me to building graphite rods fromblanks, then to fishingbamboo rods, then to rodmaking. On a commercial level, I don't think most of uscould ever dream ofcompeting with mass market driven, mass productioncompanies likeSages. They're just too big. We are (in myopinion) maybe just alittle bigger than a cottage "industry". Like someof you have alreadysaid, we would be comparing apples to oranges. Unless we're making San'Gria, it just doesn't work. Will my flyfishing/rodmaking disease ever subside? Probably not, but Inever really cared much about what folks like theSage Rod Companythought of me anyway. Have a good weekend folks... Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 22 12:24:40 2000 e6MHOdG23111 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: plastics Thanks, Ray. What would you consider to be the best plastic for this? Delrin, nylon? Any ideas.Thanks,Bob At 08:59 AM 7/22/00 -0700, you wrote:Hi Bob,Similar to Nobler's response I've found plastic rods of various types at alocal plastic supplier and have used them to make ferrule plugs. I find thata good way to get them to fit the ferrule bore snugly is to turn a couple ofsmall grooves on the o.d. of the ferrule plug.Ray----- Original Message -----From: bob maulucci Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 3:26 PMSubject: plastics I wonder if any list members have had any luck with machining plasticsforreel seats or ferrule plugs. I saw some pen turning blanks at thewoodworker's store, and they looked rather neat. What wouldbe a source for sizes big enough for turning reel seats and plugs?Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jul 22 14:33:45 2000 e6MJXiG24865 Subject: Re: Check this out Dennis,I agree with you, what I don't think is right is the badmouthing by acompany that practically has the market on graphite rods. There was noreason to even mention bamboo rods. Maybe I just have a burr under mysaddletoday.'Got to get back to planing out some strips.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dennis Haftel wrote: Maybe I'm missing the point here. But do we really care what thegraphite rod industry thinks about cane rodmakers? Those plastic rodmanufacturers that thought it was worthwhile to cater to a caneflyfishing market did so. Some of them even offer a variety of tapers. I think graphite rods have their place in the flyfishing market. Frommy point of view, they introduced me to a sport that I knew preciouslittle about. My curiosity about to what level I could take myflyfishing led me to building graphite rods from blanks, then to fishingbamboo rods, then to rodmaking. On a commercial level, I don't think most of us could ever dream ofcompeting with mass market driven, mass production companies likeSages. They're just too big. We are (in my opinion) maybe just alittle bigger than a cottage "industry". Like some of you have alreadysaid, we would be comparing apples to oranges. Unless we're making San'Gria, it just doesn't work. Will my flyfishing/rodmaking disease ever subside? Probably not, but Inever really cared much about what folks like the Sage Rod Companythought of me anyway. Have a good weekend folks... Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Jul 22 15:26:52 2000 e6MKQpG25653 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: New Silk Fly Lines Just a note to all interested to let you know that there is a newmanufacturer( which including Phoenix now makes two ) of silk linesgetting ready to launch their range here in the UK.A friend of mine in the trade has seen a couple of their lines and theyare manufactured by ' Thebault' pronounced Taybault.The cost remains to be finalised but my friend has been advised theintended retail price will be between £50 and 75 UK sterling.Apparently their first advert and launch of the lines is to be in aforthcoming issue of 'Trout and Salmon ' magazine......keep yaposted.........Paul. from hartzell@easystreet.com Sat Jul 22 15:34:46 2000 e6MKYjG25899 NAA08225 Subject: Prazi lathes Has anyone any information about Prazi lathes? I have been usinga Maximat 7" lathe for the past thirty years and need somethingcomparable. The Prazi catalog indicates a lathe in that range with amill attached for about $5,000 Is it worth it?Ed Hartzell from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 15:50:25 2000 e6MKoOG26185 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 15:51:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Check this out Well said, but the comparison is more like elephants and mangos ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check this out Maybe I'm missing the point here. But do we really care what thegraphite rod industry thinks about cane rodmakers? Those plastic rodmanufacturers that thought it was worthwhile to cater to a caneflyfishing market did so. Some of them even offer a variety of tapers. I think graphite rods have their place in the flyfishing market. Frommy point of view, they introduced me to a sport that I knew preciouslittle about. My curiosity about to what level I could take myflyfishing led me to building graphite rods from blanks, then to fishingbamboo rods, then to rodmaking. On a commercial level, I don't think most of us could ever dream ofcompeting with mass market driven, mass production companies likeSages. They're just too big. We are (in my opinion) maybe just alittle bigger than a cottage "industry". Like some of you have alreadysaid, we would be comparing apples to oranges. Unless we're making San'Gria, it just doesn't work. Will my flyfishing/rodmaking disease ever subside? Probably not, but Inever really cared much about what folks like the Sage Rod Companythought of me anyway. Have a good weekend folks... Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 16:12:29 2000 e6MLCSG26617 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:13:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Prazi lathes Prazi is supposed to be very high quality, but I've never seen one up close.A Maxi-Mat is no slouch ! A pal does some great work on a Maxi-10". GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Prazi lathes Has anyone any information about Prazi lathes? I have been usinga Maximat 7" lathe for the past thirty years and need somethingcomparable. The Prazi catalog indicates a lathe in that range with amill attached for about $5,000 Is it worth it?Ed Hartzell from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Jul 22 16:59:18 2000 e6MLxHG27310 Sat, 22 Jul 2000 23:59:13 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Rod turning motor Stuart,all you need is a slow turning motor, which you should be able to buy inGermany. Look up your yellow pages for electromotors.Below a link I found on the internet. I know that companies like Conrad orBèhler, Nadler had those motors in former times.Link for Conrad:http://www.conrad- elektronik.com/ http://www.elektromotor.at/grillermotoren.htm http://www.elero.de/fs_elero.htm Christian stuart moultrie wrote: Hi List I live in Germany and need a rod turner (electric Turning motor) forvarnishing my wraps. I know that they are available in the U.S but wework on 220Volts here. Is there anybody on the list in Europe who knowswhere I can get one?I could try getting hold of a Bar-B-Q turning motor I know, but if thereis a rod motor available I would prefer that. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Stuart from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 17:08:59 2000 e6MM8wG27573 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 17:10:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod turning motor It can also be done with a pulley and belt set up., to slow it down.GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod turning motor Stuart,all you need is a slow turning motor, which you should be able to buy inGermany. Look up your yellow pages for electromotors.Below a link I found on the internet. I know that companies like Conrad orBèhler, Nadler had those motors in former times.Link for Conrad:http://www.conrad- elektronik.com/ http://www.elektromotor.at/grillermotoren.htm http://www.elero.de/fs_elero.htm Christian stuart moultrie wrote: Hi List I live in Germany and need a rod turner (electric Turning motor) forvarnishing my wraps. I know that they are available in the U.S but wework on 220Volts here. Is there anybody on the list in Europe who knowswhere I can get one?I could try getting hold of a Bar-B-Q turning motor I know, but if thereis a rod motor available I would prefer that. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Stuart from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jul 22 17:13:02 2000 e6MMD1G27719 Subject: Re: Check this out Exactly. I haven't seen the video, nor will I. I don't know any of thepeople at Sage, nor do I care to, and I don't care what they have to say,one way or the other, in their pathetic marketing attempts; and that's allit is, marketing. The interesting point is, why did they feel it necessaryto make the comparison to cane? Joe Sixpack is a very gullible guy, withvery little knowledge, and opinions out the wazoo based not upon facts butwhat someone else has told him or led him to believe; nothing butassumptions and presumptions in a perceived reality, which is a reality initself, but is not actuality. Could it be that Joe Sixpack is discoveringcane, and Sage perceives this as a threat? Beats me, but it was noaccidental blunder that Gerry Seims chose the words, the topic, and thecomparison. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check this out Maybe I'm missing the point here. But do we really care what thegraphite rod industry thinks about cane rodmakers? Those plastic rodmanufacturers that thought it was worthwhile to cater to a caneflyfishing market did so. Some of them even offer a variety of tapers. I think graphite rods have their place in the flyfishing market. Frommy point of view, they introduced me to a sport that I knew preciouslittle about. My curiosity about to what level I could take myflyfishing led me to building graphite rods from blanks, then to fishingbamboo rods, then to rodmaking. On a commercial level, I don't think most of us could ever dream ofcompeting with mass market driven, mass production companies likeSages. They're just too big. We are (in my opinion) maybe just alittle bigger than a cottage "industry". Like some of you have alreadysaid, we would be comparing apples to oranges. Unless we're making San'Gria, it just doesn't work. Will my flyfishing/rodmaking disease ever subside? Probably not, but Inever really cared much about what folks like the Sage Rod Companythought of me anyway. Have a good weekend folks... Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Jul 22 17:21:51 2000 e6MMLnG28003 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 00:21:44 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Rod turning motor Stuart, try RS components http://www.rs-components.de/rot/light/index2.htm Christian nobler wrote: It can also be done with a pulley and belt set up., to slow it down.GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Christian Meinke" Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 4:51 PMSubject: Re: Rod turning motor Stuart,all you need is a slow turning motor, which you should be able to buy inGermany. Look up your yellow pages for electromotors.Below a link I found on the internet. I know that companies like Conrad orBèhler, Nadler had those motors in former times.Link for Conrad:http://www.conrad- elektronik.com/ http://www.elektromotor.at/grillermotoren.htm http://www.elero.de/fs_elero.htm Christian stuart moultrie wrote: Hi List I live in Germany and need a rod turner (electric Turning motor) forvarnishing my wraps. I know that they are available in the U.S but wework on 220Volts here. Is there anybody on the list in Europe whoknowswhere I can get one?I could try getting hold of a Bar-B-Q turning motor I know, but if thereis a rod motor available I would prefer that. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Stuart from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 17:29:43 2000 e6MMTgG28196 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 17:28:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Check this out I recall quite well when fiberglass rods first came out. So much of theballyhoo was comparing these new wonders against the cheapo Monty's, andthelike. These didn't last long, if fished hard, and took a set easily, not tomention they couldn't take the abuse many gave them. All of this, compared to any fine example of cane, was worlds apart, and thelayman who fished seldom, was meant for the plastic rod, or visa versa !Plastic rods were meant for the person who doesn't take care of his gear, orknow how to ! They do an excellent job under these circumstances. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check this out Exactly. I haven't seen the video, nor will I. I don't know any of thepeople at Sage, nor do I care to, and I don't care what they have to say,one way or the other, in their pathetic marketing attempts; and that's allit is, marketing. The interesting point is, why did they feel it necessaryto make the comparison to cane? Joe Sixpack is a very gullible guy, withvery little knowledge, and opinions out the wazoo based not upon facts butwhat someone else has told him or led him to believe; nothing butassumptions and presumptions in a perceived reality, which is a reality initself, but is not actuality. Could it be that Joe Sixpack is discoveringcane, and Sage perceives this as a threat? Beats me, but it was noaccidental blunder that Gerry Seims chose the words, the topic, and thecomparison. ----- Original Message -----From: "Dennis Haftel" Cc: Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 2:53 PMSubject: Re: Check this out Maybe I'm missing the point here. But do we really care what thegraphite rod industry thinks about cane rodmakers? Those plastic rodmanufacturers that thought it was worthwhile to cater to a caneflyfishing market did so. Some of them even offer a variety of tapers. I think graphite rods have their place in the flyfishing market. Frommy point of view, they introduced me to a sport that I knew preciouslittle about. My curiosity about to what level I could take myflyfishing led me to building graphite rods from blanks, then to fishingbamboo rods, then to rodmaking. On a commercial level, I don't think most of us could ever dream ofcompeting with mass market driven, mass production companies likeSages. They're just too big. We are (in my opinion) maybe just alittle bigger than a cottage "industry". Like some of you have alreadysaid, we would be comparing apples to oranges. Unless we're making San'Gria, it just doesn't work. Will my flyfishing/rodmaking disease ever subside? Probably not, but Inever really cared much about what folks like the Sage Rod Companythought of me anyway. Have a good weekend folks... Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jul 22 18:40:02 2000 e6MNe1G29194 (204.186.33.29) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Check this out Why don't we leave it at this! If a person likes "plastic" rods and issatisfied, more power to him. I don't think we have to force feed canedown someones throat or look down our nose at him. As I said before Ilike all three materials. When I fish the opening day in New Jersey orPennsyltucky I always use plastic so as not to look like some snobamoung the locals . Later in the season when things clear out it's caneall the way. Marty I recall quite well when fiberglass rods first came out. So much of theballyhoo was comparing these new wonders against the cheapo Monty's,and thelike. These didn't last long, if fished hard, and took a set easily, not tomention they couldn't take the abuse many gave them. All of this, compared to any fine example of cane, was worlds apart, andthelayman who fished seldom, was meant for the plastic rod, or visa versa !Plastic rods were meant for the person who doesn't take care of his gear,orknow how to ! They do an excellent job under these circumstances. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Cc: "and Collecting" Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 5:11 PMSubject: Re: Check this out Exactly. I haven't seen the video, nor will I. I don't know any of thepeople at Sage, nor do I care to, and I don't care what they have to say,one way or the other, in their pathetic marketing attempts; and that's allit is, marketing. The interesting point is, why did they feel it necessaryto make the comparison to cane? Joe Sixpack is a very gullible guy, withvery little knowledge, and opinions out the wazoo based not upon factsbutwhat someone else has told him or led him to believe; nothing butassumptions and presumptions in a perceived reality, which is a reality initself, but is not actuality. Could it be that Joe Sixpack is discoveringcane, and Sage perceives this as a threat? Beats me, but it was noaccidental blunder that Gerry Seims chose the words, the topic, and thecomparison. ----- Original Message -----From: "Dennis Haftel" Cc: Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 2:53 PMSubject: Re: Check this out Maybe I'm missing the point here. But do we really care what thegraphite rod industry thinks about cane rodmakers? Those plastic rodmanufacturers that thought it was worthwhile to cater to a caneflyfishing market did so. Some of them even offer a variety of tapers. I think graphite rods have their place in the flyfishing market. Frommy point of view, they introduced me to a sport that I knew preciouslittle about. My curiosity about to what level I could take myflyfishing led me to building graphite rods from blanks, then to fishingbamboo rods, then to rodmaking. On a commercial level, I don't think most of us could ever dream ofcompeting with mass market driven, mass production companies likeSages. They're just too big. We are (in my opinion) maybe just alittle bigger than a cottage "industry". Like some of you have alreadysaid, we would be comparing apples to oranges. Unless we're makingSan'Gria, it just doesn't work. Will my flyfishing/rodmaking disease ever subside? Probably not, but Inever really cared much about what folks like the Sage Rod Companythought of me anyway. Have a good weekend folks... Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from Troutgetter@aol.com Sat Jul 22 19:09:12 2000 e6N09BG29747 Subject: stepper motors Hey guys.I have a Herbach and Rademan stepping motor, controller, and power supplyand zero electrical smarts. The motor, controller, etc performed wonderfully about ten times and then ... well it stopped. Now the question is, how do I figure out which component is faulty? The power supply seems to besupplying power, but the motor just sort of clicks. It won't wind up or down, and come to think of it only clicks in the retrieve position and doesn't do a thing in the "lower the rod into the tube position." This was an expensive little gadget and I would hate to re-buy the entire arrangement again. I have no circuit testers, oscilloscopes, voltage meters, etc. Lacking common sense to eliminate what's not wrong. Any help, like always, is greatly appreciated.MikeMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 22 19:27:12 2000 e6N0RBG00122 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:26:07 -0500 Subject: Re: stepper motors Is there a gear train involved ? If so, try disconnecting from the motor,and see if the gear train is free. Sounds like something is bound up, and aclutch is slipping ???? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: stepper motors Hey guys.I have a Herbach and Rademan stepping motor, controller, and power supplyandzero electrical smarts. The motor, controller, etc performed wonderfullyabout ten times and then ... well it stopped. Now the question is, how doIfigure out which component is faulty? The power supply seems to besupplyingpower, but the motor just sort of clicks. It won't wind up or down, andcometo think of it only clicks in the retrieve position and doesn't do a thinginthe "lower the rod into the tube position." This was an expensive littlegadget and I would hate to re-buy the entire arrangement again. I have nocircuit testers, oscilloscopes, voltage meters, etc. Lacking common sensetoeliminate what's not wrong. Any help, like always, is greatly appreciated.MikeMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 22 19:34:37 2000 e6N0YaG00389 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: magazine format that is do-able Check this out:http://www.westernflyfisher.comFinally a good deliverable magazine available on line for free. All you need is Adobe Acrobat Reader 4 (free link on site.) Maybe this is what The Bamboo Fly Rod should consider. I know someone mentioned that before, andI don't want to start another round of bantering, but this is cool.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from sats@gte.net Sat Jul 22 21:36:22 2000 e6N2aLG01924 ; id VAA1488964 Subject: Re: Rod turning motor Hi List I live in Germany and need a rod turner (electric Turning motor) forvarnishing my wraps.... Any help would be very appreciated. Try a cheep electric clock. I use them for my turning motors. You canprobably find a gear ratio of about 8rpm. ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from sats@gte.net Sat Jul 22 21:37:16 2000 e6N2bFG02020 Subject: Re: Check this out http://flyfishing.about.comIt seems that Sage has an opinion about Bamboorods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hay Tony, Maybe Sage say the back cover of the FFF flyfisher? backcover isn't a Sage... or a St. Croix... or a Loomis... or a, well you get the ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jul 23 08:14:41 2000 e6NDEeG08392 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 06:14:37 -0700 Organization: First Baptist ChurchX-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) Subject: Re: Prazi lathes Ed Hartzell wrote: Has anyone any information about Prazi lathes? I have been usinga Maximat 7" lathe for the past thirty years and need somethingcomparable. The Prazi catalog indicates a lathe in that range with amill attached for about $5,000 Is it worth it?Ed Hartzell Ed,I used a Prazi mini-lathe for several months. Though I found it toosmall for my needs, it's quality was top-notch. There's a websitesomewhere that I could look up if necessary. Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 23 08:44:51 2000 e6NDipG08858 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from pac1for@earthlink.net Sun Jul 23 08:47:37 2000 e6NDlaG09000 GAA16060; Subject: unsubscribe -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Prazi lathes Ed Hartzell wrote: Has anyone any information about Prazi lathes? I have been usinga Maximat 7" lathe for the past thirty years and need somethingcomparable. The Prazi catalog indicates a lathe in that range with amill attached for about $5,000 Is it worth it?Ed Hartzell Ed,I used a Prazi mini-lathe for several months. Though I found it toosmall for my needs, it's quality was top-notch. There's a websitesomewhere that I could look up if necessary. Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 23 09:03:33 2000 e6NE3XG09347 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:05:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue I've only used Elmer's PU glue, so don't know how it compares. I've had verygood results with what I have done. With separations, I have wet the openareas, pretty well, and blotted well with paper towels. Applied the gluedown into the tight areas as best I could, then completed coating all thefaces, with the sections spread with long pins, ala Garrison's book. I thenwipe excess and bind both ways. I continue to wipe away the excess until itstops foaming, and hang to set. The next day, I remove the binding, scrapelightly, and wait for the full 24 hours, before final scraping, and sanding. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jul 23 10:13:27 2000 e6NFDQG10091 (SMTPD32-6.00) id ACC0463F0086; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:18:24 -0400 Subject: Re: New Silk Fly Lines Paul,J.P. Thebault silk lines have been marketed in France for some time,I don't know how long. If they are comparable in quality to the linesJackie Boileau made, they are excellent. They come in 15 meter (DT3-5) and27 meter (DT3-7) lengths (the same lengths as Jacky Boileau, of Limoges,used to make) for 640 and 930 French Francs, respectively. (WF4-7 are alsoavailable, in a 30 meter length, as well as heavier DT.) That's $91 and$132 U.S. at the current rate of exchange. Not bad.I expect that Olaf Borge will have more info on theseshortly for the North American market.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "paul.blakley" wrote: Just a note to all interested to let you know that there is a newmanufacturer( which including Phoenix now makes two ) of silk linesgetting ready to launch their range here in the UK.A friend of mine in the trade has seen a couple of their lines and theyare manufactured by ' Thebault' pronounced Taybault.The cost remains to be finalised but my friend has been advised theintended retail price will be between £50 and 75 UK sterling.Apparently their first advert and launch of the lines is to be in aforthcoming issue of 'Trout and Salmon ' magazine......keep yaposted.........Paul. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jul 23 11:24:23 2000 e6NGOLG10849 Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:24:05 +0800 Subject: Re: magazine format that is do-able Bob's right, this is a good mag and is well worth a look. It unfortunatelyhas a bit to do with, sorry but I'll use that four letter word Sage but therest is a pretty good read and it's well structured. Tony At 08:26 PM 7/22/00 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:Check this out:http://www.westernflyfisher.comFinally a good deliverable magazine available on line for free. All you need is Adobe Acrobat Reader 4 (free link on site.) Maybe this is what The Bamboo Fly Rod should consider. I know someone mentioned that before,and I don't want to start another round of bantering, but this is cool.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from ingvar.cane@swipnet.se Sun Jul 23 11:59:37 2000 e6NGxaG11504 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:58:23 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Rod turning motor boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFF4AD.A0240D20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFF4AD.A0240D20 Hi Stuart and all, You can find a rod turning motor for 220 volt if you goes to =www.hsimport.se It is a Swedish company that has a lot of components = on the icon "komponenter". Good luck Ingvar ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFF4AD.A0240D20 Hi Stuart and all, You can find a rod turning motor for = is a Swedish company that has a lot of components for the rodmaker and = "komponenter". Good luck Ingvar ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFF4AD.A0240D20-- from ingvar.cane@swipnet.se Sun Jul 23 11:59:40 2000 e6NGxdG11517 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:58:26 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: The Driggs taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFF4B3.47F316E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFF4B3.47F316E0 Hi all, Can anyone help me to solv the mysterium about the Driggs taper. In =Hexrod On Line there is a taper given by Wayne Cattanach which is said =to came from the original Young milling machine guide bars. The taper is =given in 5 inch stations, but I have in my mind that Youngs machine set =the the tapers in 6 inch stations ? Allmost the same taper is given in =the Planing Form issue #25 and then changed to 5 inch stations in issue =#29. Can anyone tell me which is the correct taper for the 5 inch =stations. Mr Ron Barch or perhaps Mr Wayne Cattanach must know a lot =about this ? Best regards Ingvar Nilsson ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFF4B3.47F316E0 Hi all, Can anyone help me to solv the = Driggs taper. In Hexrod On Line there is a taper given by Wayne = is said to came from the original Young milling machine guide bars. The = given in 5 inch stations, but I have in my mind that Youngs machine set = tapers in 6 inch stations ? Allmost the same taper is given in the = anyone tell me which is the correct taper for the 5 inch stations. Mr = or perhaps Mr Wayne Cattanach must know a lot about this ? Best regards Ingvar =Nilsson ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFF4B3.47F316E0-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 12:01:53 2000 e6NH1qG11723 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Shawn, I`ve been using PU glue for my last few rods, and I got verygood result with it. It is a Norwegian brand, comparable toElmer`s I guess. I takes heat very well, without delamination. I just fold out the strips, apply glue with a toothbrush andbind. I do not mist or thin the glue, just right out from thecontainer. It has a "sirup" consistent, is clear as water anddo not foam up much, just a little out from each end. I lightlywipe of the blank with alchohol on a rag and hang to cure.After two days its ready for unbind and scraping. regardsdanny-------Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 12:26:55 2000 e6NHQsG12239 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:26:47 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Shawn, Forgot to mention it, but I spooke to the manufacture about misting thestrips befor gluing. They told me it is not neccesary, it`ll cure fromthe mist in the enviroment, adding moisture will only speed up the curingnot make it stronger.... regardsdanny-------Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 23 12:34:35 2000 e6NHYZG12462 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:34:30 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Thanks Danny,that's what I wanted to hear! I think I'm going to giveit a try! Shawn Danny Twang wrote: Shawn, Forgot to mention it, but I spooke to the manufacture about misting thestrips befor gluing. They told me it is not neccesary, it`ll cure fromthe mist in the enviroment, adding moisture will only speed up the curingnot make it stronger.... regardsdanny------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 13:11:32 2000 e6NIBVG13105 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly RodsDate: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:31:00 -0400 Cc: Rodmakers Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Thanks Danny,that's what I wanted to hear! I think I'm going to giveit a try! Shawn Danny Twang wrote: Shawn, Forgot to mention it, but I spooke to the manufacture about misting thestrips befor gluing. They told me it is not neccesary, it`ll cure fromthe mist in the enviroment, adding moisture will only speed up the curingnot make it stronger.... regardsdanny-------> Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jul 23 14:07:24 2000 e6NJ7OG13779 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Taper conversion Importance: Normal I'd like to build a rod for which I can find no taper. I really enjoy theincredible distance and line control possible fishing with my graphite St.Croix 14 ft 10 wt spey rod. It is, though, a heavier line weight than Ireally need. So, I'd like to build a 12 ft 7 wt. two-handed rod out ofcane. In addition, I'd like to make it a two-piece rather than three sincethis probably solves the problem of ferrule availability while maintainingrelative ease of transportaton. I've heard tools such as hexrod can convert rods from one length and lineweight to another but am unsure how to go about this. In broad strokes, howwould I go about converting the taper from Howell's book for a Payne 13 ft3-piece 10 wt to a 12 ft 2-piece 7 wt? Thanks in advance, Richard from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 14:50:48 2000 e6NJolG14408 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 21:50:41 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Shawn, Also You shuld not heat setting the glue, then it will not have anymoisture from the surrounding air...... regardsdanny-------Work regardsdannyFrom: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 23 15:00:08 2000 e6NK08G14671 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue With the Gorilla Glue PU, I usually wipe the strips with a damp (barely) rag before bundling and spreading the glue. The glue is thick, but it spreads thin. I am pretty sure that the way this glue cures, it is actually sucking moisture out of the blank in the curing process. I keep the blanks pretty dry (after soaking for roughing and straightening). I am amazed at how fast the strips dry out after they are soaked and processed. After heat treating, they are very dry.I was warned that the PU glue will not work as well if the strips are bone dry, so that's why I use the rag. (This was not from the company, however.) I am pleased at how well the PUs work, and I like the straight out of the bottle usability. My Epon is still sitting on the shelf. I have done some sections on rods were I did one tip with PU and one with Epon. I can't tell a difference. The only thing I will say is that I like the ability to use vinegar with the Epon over using alcohol for the PUs. I despise the denatured alcohol, but it does work well when used safely and sparingly.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from hartzell@easystreet.com Sun Jul 23 15:11:46 2000 e6NKBjG14977 NAA26227 Subject: Prazi lathe Thanks to all who answered my query about Prazi lathes. The main reasonI want tio change is that I am going broke buying replacement partssince the lathe is not made any more. I have their fliers and havevisited their web site and all seems well . The model I want is largerthan the small one they advertise and most rodmakers say their machinesare well made. If anyone besides Harry has actually used one I'd behappy to hear from him too.Ed from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 23 15:25:13 2000 e6NKPCG15491 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:24:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Prazi lathe Ed, I'd sure look for a used 10" lathe, like So. Bend, Rockwell, or evenAtlas. Parts are so much cheaper, if you even need them ! Even the highgrade Jet, is a good machine. Any of these could save you allot of $ downthe road, and most will do the job better ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Prazi lathe Thanks to all who answered my query about Prazi lathes. The main reasonI want tio change is that I am going broke buying replacement partssince the lathe is not made any more. I have their fliers and havevisited their web site and all seems well . The model I want is largerthan the small one they advertise and most rodmakers say their machinesare well made. If anyone besides Harry has actually used one I'd behappy to hear from him too.Ed from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 16:04:24 2000 e6NL4NG16089 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:04:18 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Taper conversion Richard, I have the taper for a Norwegian built (Asbjoern Hoergaard) 12`, 3 piece#8/9. I can send You the taper, and You can convert it in HexRod for a#7 line. As for 2 vs. 3 piece, I don't know if it is necessary to makeany changes.... regardsdanny -------Work From: Richard Nantel Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:27:05 -0400 Subject: Taper conversion I'd like to build a rod for which I can find no taper. I really enjoy theincredible distance and line control possible fishing with my graphite St.Croix 14 ft 10 wt spey rod. It is, though, a heavier line weight than Ireally need. So, I'd like to build a 12 ft 7 wt. two-handed rod out ofcane. In addition, I'd like to make it a two-piece rather than three sincethis probably solves the problem of ferrule availability while maintainingrelative ease of transportaton. I've heard tools such as hexrod can convert rods from one length and lineweight to another but am unsure how to go about this. In broad strokes,howwould I go about converting the taper from Howell's book for a Payne 13 ft3-piece 10 wt to a 12 ft 2-piece 7 wt? Thanks in advance, Richard from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 23 16:17:42 2000 e6NLHfG16388 (204.186.33.33) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue How does the PU glue hold up under heat straightening of the glued upblank?. I put some Titebond PU on a card , let it dry and heated with aheat gun. It softened quite a bit. Marty With the Gorilla Glue PU, I usually wipe the strips with a damp (barely)rag before bundling and spreading the glue. The glue is thick, but itspreads thin. I am pretty sure that the way this glue cures, it is actuallysucking moisture out of the blank in the curing process. I keep the blankspretty dry (after soaking for roughing and straightening). I am amazed athow fast the strips dry out after they are soaked and processed. Afterheattreating, they are very dry.I was warned that the PU glue will not work as well if the strips are bonedry, so that's why I use the rag. (This was not from the company,however.) I am pleased at how well the PUs work, and I like the straightout of the bottle usability. My Epon is still sitting on the shelf. I havedone some sections on rods were I did one tip with PU and one with Epon. Ican't tell a difference. The only thing I will say is that I like theability to use vinegar with the Epon over using alcohol for the PUs. Idespise the denatured alcohol, but it does work well when used safely andsparingly.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jul 23 16:40:41 2000 e6NLeeG16882; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:39:44 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000 Friends,The Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000 will be October 26 - 28 atFulton's Lodge outside Mountain Home Arkansas. We begin on Thursdaynight with a general session, and conclude the final demonstration onSaturday afternoon. A non-refundable Registration Fee is required of all who attend.The Registration covers the cost of several meals, and helps defrayother expenses of the weekend. Please notify Harry Boyd by email,phone, or in writing if you are planning to attend. But DO NOT sendyour registration check to me. Mike Biondo is the money-changer forthis event. Contact me for Mike's address so you can send yourregistration to him. Quite a group is working together to make this the best SRG ever.Mike Biondo is handling money. Charlie Curro keeps our website up todate. Ken Cole is trying to handle donations and door prizes. RickCrenshaw and I are working on food. I'm handling publicity andpromotion as well as planning the program. Several others are involvedas well. I'll tell you more about door prizes and silent auction itemslater. Some program notes to whet your appetite: Harold Demarest on bambooAl Medved on making rattan grips (and lots of other stuff, we hope!)Morten Lovstad's innovative demoBob Nunley's demo on splitting, etcCosmic Cast-off IICary Chan on Bamboo in ChinaBill Lamberson's Morgan Hand Mill I'm working on several other demo's, and we've still got a fewprogram slots open, so let me know your ideas. With a few exceptions,I'm trying to avoid repeats of previous years. If there's enoughinterest, in the absence of a more experienced teacher, I'll lead a twomorning clinic for beginning rodmakers, from selecting and splittingcane to final planing. All the lodging for Fulton's is full. But there are many otherplaces to stay in the area. Drop me an email and I'll get a list in themail to you, or will fax the list to you. ALSO, IF YOU'RE NOT SURE YOUHAVE A SPOT AT FULTON'S PLEASE CONTACT ME. I don't want anyone toshowup at Fulton's and have to be turned away. Sounds like we're going to have a great time. Please let me knowhow I can help you attend and enjoy the meeting. Harry Boyd --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 16:58:41 2000 e6NLweG17231 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:58:27 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Bill, Marty and other interested The glue is VERY heat resistant, as i wrote before: the cane gets carbonizedbefore it slips (right term??) On my brand, Casco, it says to keep pressure for at least 3 hours (20*Cnormal humidity). So I guess you have 1 hour to spread the glue, bind andstraightening. I usually need 30 minutes for it, so I think its plenty oftime, even though I get stressed......:-) I have found the glue to use on my rods, so I want experiment any more, atleast this year:-) I have heard of rodmakers using ordinary PVA with great result, also PVAwith hardener (D4 glue) but I got to many delamintion with PVA during heatstraightening. Go for it, You want be disappointed, just remember surgical gloves andspread it with a toothbrush. regardsdanny-------Work From: Bill Walters Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:23:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Danny, I want to jump in here and ask a few questions. In your experience what isyour open working time like? How heat resistant does it seem to be after ithas cured? I'm probably going to keep using Resourcinol for darkly flamedrodsbut anything lighter I might consider the PU glues with the apparent easeofuse you're talking about. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bill Walters Danny Twang wrote: Shawn, I`ve been using PU glue for my last few rods, and I got verygood result with it. It is a Norwegian brand, comparable toElmer`s I guess. I takes heat very well, without delamination. I just fold out the strips, apply glue with a toothbrush andbind. I do not mist or thin the glue, just right out from thecontainer. It has a "sirup" consistent, is clear as water anddo not foam up much, just a little out from each end. I lightlywipe of the blank with alchohol on a rag and hang to cure.After two days its ready for unbind and scraping. regardsdanny-------> Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 23 17:02:12 2000 e6NM2BG17461 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Marty:Come on, my strips come out of the binder perfectly straight, don't yours?Okay, you win. I have had success with the heat gun on a very mid to low setting. Lower heat, longer time seems to work. I have had some test strips that seemed to soften with a high heat, which is why I go slowly and carefully. I was warned that heat could really undo the PU glues, which is why I don't try any kind of curing whatsoever on the blanks.Did the glue you tested harden up again? My test blank seemed to recover after the high heat turned it to mush, but I question its integrity. Maybe I need to build a butt for it and subject it to a couple months of casting to see if it falls apart.Bets regards,Bob At 05:11 PM 7/23/00 -0400, marty wrote:How does the PU glue hold up under heat straightening of the glued upblank?. I put some Titebond PU on a card , let it dry and heated with aheat gun. It softened quite a bit. Marty Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 17:10:18 2000 e6NMAHG17738 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Silk thread Friends, Does any of You know the thickness of the Belding Corticelli silk threadcompared to Gudebrods, Pearsalls Gossamer/Naples...... TIAdanny-------Work from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Jul 23 17:14:33 2000 e6NMEWG17926 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id RAA29599; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:14:33 -0500 Subject: Re: The Driggs taper Ingvar, The Hexrod On Line Driggs taper is from Wayne C's original posting,http://www.uwm.edu/cgi- bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9705.304which is at 6-inch stations, as you say. Hexrod just interpolatedthese to 5-inch stations, but if you look at the "Detailed Numbers"the values every 6 inches should be the same as Wayne's original. My copies of The Planing Form only go back to #31 so I don't knowif that is the same identical taper or not. My understanding is thatPaul Young was continually adjusting and improving his tapers, sodifferences are not uncommon. If you search the archives of this list you will find severaldiscusions of this tapers, and maybe some alternative versions.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, INGVAR NILSON wrote: Hi all, Can anyone help me to solv the mysterium about the Driggs taper. InHexrod On Line there is a taper given by Wayne Cattanach which is said tocame from the original Young milling machine guide bars. The taper is given in5 inch stations, but I have in my mind that Youngs machine set the thetapers in 6 inch stations ? Allmost the same taper is given in the PlaningForm issue #25 and then changed to 5 inch stations in issue #29. Cananyone tell me which is the correct taper for the 5 inch stations. Mr RonBarch or perhaps Mr Wayne Cattanach must know a lot about this ? Best regards Ingvar Nilsson from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Jul 23 17:20:53 2000 e6NMKqG18183 Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:20:10 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Bob, My strips comes out from the binder (my hands) like a snake:-)But I have no problem at all, straightning with heat, besidesthe time it takes....... Th PU don`t get as soft as PVA, but I have not had any problemafter straightning. I used it on my Midge, and the rod have hadmany hours with me on the stream this summer....... But it can of course be several kinds of PU`sout there. regardsdanny-------Work From: bob maulucci Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:54:06 -0400 Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Marty:Come on, my strips come out of the binder perfectly straight, don't yours?Okay, you win. I have had success with the heat gun on a very mid to lowsetting. Lower heat, longer time seems to work. I have had some teststripsthat seemed to soften with a high heat, which is why I go slowly andcarefully. I was warned that heat could really undo the PU glues, which iswhy I don't try any kind of curing whatsoever on the blanks.Did the glue you tested harden up again? My test blank seemed to recoverafter the high heat turned it to mush, but I question its integrity. MaybeI need to build a butt for it and subject it to a couple months of castingto see if it falls apart.Bets regards,Bob At 05:11 PM 7/23/00 -0400, marty wrote:How does the PU glue hold up under heat straightening of the glued upblank?. I put some Titebond PU on a card , let it dry and heated with aheat gun. It softened quite a bit. Marty Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 23 17:23:41 2000 e6NMNeG18334 Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:23:36 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Silk thread Danny,the Belding is quite a bit larger, I would say about 4/0 or more.The Pearsalls Gossamer is about a 6/0 or smaller, Pearsalls Naples would beslightly smaller than your average 4/0.I found the Belding nice, but very, very hairy!Shawn Danny Twang wrote: Friends, Does any of You know the thickness of the Belding Corticelli silk threadcompared to Gudebrods, Pearsalls Gossamer/Naples...... TIAdanny------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jul 23 17:55:19 2000 e6NMtIG18983 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Taper conversion "'Rodmakers'" Importance: Normal Dear Danny, I'd love that taper. It would then be really easy to convert it to a 7 wt. Many thanks, Ricjard -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Taper conversion Richard, I have the taper for a Norwegian built (Asbjoern Hoergaard) 12`, 3 piece#8/9. I can send You the taper, and You can convert it in HexRod for a#7 line. As for 2 vs. 3 piece, I don't know if it is necessary to makeany changes.... regardsdanny ------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: Richard Nantel Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:27:05 -0400 Subject: Taper conversion I'd like to build a rod for which I can find no taper. I really enjoy theincredible distance and line control possible fishing with my graphite St.Croix 14 ft 10 wt spey rod. It is, though, a heavier line weight than Ireally need. So, I'd like to build a 12 ft 7 wt. two-handed rod out ofcane. In addition, I'd like to make it a two-piece rather than three sincethis probably solves the problem of ferrule availability while maintainingrelative ease of transportaton. I've heard tools such as hexrod can convert rods from one length and lineweight to another but am unsure how to go about this. In broad strokes, howwould I go about converting the taper from Howell's book 3-piece 10 wt to a 12 ft 2-piece 7 wt? Thanks in advance, Richard from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 23 19:07:45 2000 e6O07iG19944 (204.186.33.141) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Perfectly straight? Only in my dreams!The glue did harden back up again. Marty Marty:Come on, my strips come out of the binder perfectly straight, don't yours?Okay, you win. I have had success with the heat gun on a very mid to lowsetting. Lower heat, longer time seems to work. I have had some teststripsthat seemed to soften with a high heat, which is why I go slowly andcarefully. I was warned that heat could really undo the PU glues, which iswhy I don't try any kind of curing whatsoever on the blanks.Did the glue you tested harden up again? My test blank seemed to recoverafter the high heat turned it to mush, but I question its integrity. MaybeI need to build a butt for it and subject it to a couple months of castingto see if it falls apart.Bets regards,Bob At 05:11 PM 7/23/00 -0400, marty wrote:How does the PU glue hold up under heat straightening of the glued upblank?. I put some Titebond PU on a card , let it dry and heated with aheat gun. It softened quite a bit. Marty Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fquinchat@locl.net Sun Jul 23 20:02:31 2000 e6O12UG20852 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 corsair.locl.net (8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08677 for Subject: Need 9'-3wt taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFF4E2.7AE9EB80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFF4E2.7AE9EB80 Does anyone have a taper for a 9 foot, 3/4 wt? I believe Tom Smithwick =mentioned one a while back. Thanks, Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFF4E2.7AE9EB80 Does anyone have a taper for a 9= back. Thanks, Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFF4E2.7AE9EB80-- from Ivankatt@aol.com Sun Jul 23 20:45:33 2000 e6O1jXG21587 Subject: F.E. Thomas 6' 9" 3wt. Shawn, The rod arrived last Saturday as we were leaving for vacation, so I didn't have a chance to write you as we just got back today. The rod is beautiful! A piece of art work! I am very pleased with the way it came out. I like the way you distinguish one tip from the other by putting an extra stripe at the tiptop of one of them. It makes it easier than taking them out of the bag to look at the bottom of the ferrules to determine which one I used last. The rod fished as good as it looks. The mrs. and I went up to Pittsburg, NH and fished the Connecticut River for a few days last week and the rod handled superbly. We caught many trout in the 8 to 12 inch range and it wasa lot of fun to catch them on it. It was a pleasure to cast, even into the wind, and rollcasting was a breeze with it also. I took your suggestion and got a Teton #3 reel for it with the Triangle Taper 3/4 line and I am glad that I did. The little reel balanced the rod nicely and the line was easy to cast. Talk to you soon.Bob Carolan from EESweet@aol.com Sun Jul 23 22:05:32 2000 e6O35VG22726 Subject: New Rod Report Hi All, I just spent my first day on the river with my recently completed Dickerson 7613, 7'6" #5 and wanted to give you all a report since without the list I'd have never been able to do this. I chose the faster action of the two in Howell's book, and it is definitely a fast rod. While casting, it's really not too thrilling until you get 10+ feet of line out so for those of you who fish mainly small streams this may not be the best choice. But if you're like me and fish mostly medium to large western streams and rivers, youmight want to think about making this rod. Once you have more than 15' of line out, watch out! At that point this rod really comes alive, with smooth, powerful action and point and shoot accuracy. I tried it with 4,5, and 6 weight lines and for all around use it's happiest with the #5 though I might put the #6 on it from time to time if I know I'll be fishing in close quarters. As for the day on the river, well it was a lot of fishing and casting, but no catching. That's what I get for trying a new river for my first try with a new rod. Well, that and my refusal to nymph with this rod until I've taken one on a dry . As for the construction of the rod, I used TB II glue this time instead of Gorilla Glue as on the first one I built (the one that popped a splice after an hour of casting). This stuff really does set up fast! But I tried to prepare for that and managed to get the blanks pretty straight before itwas too late. I straightened the few bends that did show up with low (120*) heat from a hair dryer and it worked great without any glue problems. It ended up with more cosmetic flaws than I'm happy with, but considering it's only my 3rd one ever (one graphite before I switched) I'm sure I'll be able to live with it warts and all. Thanks again for this great resource everyone. I don't join in too often, but I'm always out here lurking, learning, and laughing . Hope you all had a great weekend. Eric from gordonh@ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 23 22:43:05 2000 e6O3h4G23370 Subject: Pezon & Michel rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF4E6.20CE2720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF4E6.20CE2720 Hi, A member of my fishing club died recently leaving several cane rods. =The widow asked me to help her value and sell them. One in particular =looks wonderful, but I have never heard of the maker. It is from Paris, =France, and based upon the age of the owner is probably post WWII. The =rod maker is Pezon & Michel, and the rod says: Ritz Super Parabolic FFP ="Fario Club". I didn't measure it, but think it is around 8'6". It =weighs 5 5/8 oz. It is a two piece rod with an extra tip. Anyone ever hear of this baby? ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF4E6.20CE2720 Hi, A member of my fishing club died = rod with an extra tip. baby? ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF4E6.20CE2720-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Jul 24 01:51:07 2000 e6O6p6G25499 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Taper conversion Here You go, the measurment is from an unvarnish blank. Hoergaard H.C. 12` # 8/9 TIP MIDT BUTT0 0,100 50 0,278 100 0,4385 0,120 55 0,290 105 0,46110 0,135 60 0,305 110 0,48015 0,150 65 0,325 115 0,49920 0,167 70 0,333 120 0,51525 0,183 75 0,345 125 0,53030 0,200 80 0,360 130 0,55235 0,220 85 0,373 135 0,57040 0,235 90 0,387 140 0,59045 0,250 95 0,403 144 0,600 regardsdanny Richard Nantel wrote: Dear Danny, I'd love that taper. It would then be really easy to convert it to a 7 wt. Many thanks, Ricjard -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Taper conversion Richard, I have the taper for a Norwegian built (Asbjoern Hoergaard)12`, 3 piece#8/9. I can send You the taper, and You can convert it in HexRod for a#7 line. As for 2 vs. 3 piece, I don't know if it is necessary to makeany changes.... regardsdanny------- > Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: Richard Nantel Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:27:05 -0400 Subject: Taper conversion I'd like to build a rod for which I can find no taper. Ireally enjoy theincredible distance and line control possible fishing withmy graphite St.Croix 14 ft 10 wt spey rod. It is, though, a heavier lineweight than Ireally need. So, I'd like to build a 12 ft 7 wt. two-handedrod out ofcane. In addition, I'd like to make it a two-piece ratherthan three sincethis probably solves the problem of ferrule availabilitywhile maintainingrelative ease of transportaton. I've heard tools such as hexrod can convert rods from onelength and lineweight to another but am unsure how to go about this. Inbroad strokes, howwould I go about converting the taper from Howell's book 3-piece 10 wt to a 12 ft 2-piece 7 wt? Thanks in advance, Richard from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Jul 24 03:54:02 2000 e6O8s1G26672 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Pezon & Michel rod 6CB65FF9AE108DF26F17EDBD" --------------6CB65FF9AE108DF26F17EDBD I don't know when Pezon & Michel started making the Super PPP Parabolicseries,but the Fario Club is the most famous one. regardsdanny Gordon Hollingsworth wrote: Hi, A member of my fishing club died recently leaving several canerods. The widow asked me to help her value and sell them. One inparticular looks wonderful, but I have never heard of the maker. Itis from Paris, France, and based upon the age of the owner is probablypost WWII. The rod maker is Pezon & Michel, and the rod says: RitzSuper Parabolic FFP "Fario Club". I didn't measure it, but think itis around 8'6". It weighs 5 5/8 oz. It is a two piece rod with anextra tip. Anyone ever hear of this baby? --------------6CB65FF9AE108DF26F17EDBD I don't know when Pezon & Michel started making the Super PPPParabolicseries,but the Fario Club is the most famous one. regardsdanny Gordon Hollingsworth wrote: Paris, France, and based upon the age of the owner is probably post ever hear of this baby? --------------6CB65FF9AE108DF26F17EDBD-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Jul 24 04:50:46 2000 e6O9oiG27431 Subject: Taper Conversion Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFF5A7.7676BD60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFF5A7.7676BD60 Danny Is that a rod, or have you accidentally given us the specifications for =the mast of a 12 metre yacht? Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFF5A7.7676BD60 Danny Is that a rod, or have you accidentally = the specifications for the mast of a 12 metre yacht? Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BFF5A7.7676BD60-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Jul 24 05:18:04 2000 e6OAI2G27794 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Taper Conversion 6AD5460A62EC92ED11B51370" --------------6AD5460A62EC92ED11B51370 Are You pulling my leg here....?If I not messed up, it should be a 12` two handed salmon rod. I deletedmy "sent" folderso I can`t check what I did sent......... regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Danny Is that a rod, or have you accidentally given us thespecifications for the mast of a 12 metre yacht? Peter --------------6AD5460A62EC92ED11B51370 Are You pulling my leg here....?If I not messed up, it should be a 12` two handed salmon rod. I deletedmy "sent" folderso I can`t check what I did sent......... regardsdanny petermckean wrote: that a rod, or have you accidentally given us the specifications for the --------------6AD5460A62EC92ED11B51370-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Jul 24 05:26:42 2000 e6OAQfG28014 Subject: Taper conversion Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5AC.7E8B4660" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5AC.7E8B4660 Hello Danny Yes, bad joke, I guess. That's a BIG rod, Danny. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5AC.7E8B4660 Hello Danny Yes, bad joke, I guess. That's a BIG rod, Danny. Peter ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5AC.7E8B4660-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Jul 24 06:03:40 2000 e6OB3cG28673 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Taper conversion AD3EB93195AE276B2E454F55" --------------AD3EB93195AE276B2E454F55 No worries:-)I have some tapers for 13`-14`and 15`rods as well if You areinterested:-) The rod is intended used in the many salmon rivers here in Norway, thatholds somepretty huge fish.On the original rod the butt is actually double built, the rest single. regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Hello Danny Yes, bad joke, I guess. That's a BIG rod, Danny. Peter --------------AD3EB93195AE276B2E454F55 No worries:-)I have some tapers for 13`-14`and 15`rods as well if You areinterested:-) The rod is intended used in the many salmon rivers here in Norway, thatholds somepretty huge fish.On the original rod the butt is actually double built, the rest single. regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Hello joke, a BIG --------------AD3EB93195AE276B2E454F55-- from lwk4b@virginia.edu Mon Jul 24 09:05:31 2000 e6OE5UG02498 24 Jul 2000 10:05 EDT MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line atmail.virginia.eduSubject: Fw: Planing Form Order Hi All,I've been reading your valuable comments & guidance for some time now andamin the process of putting together my workshop. I plan on retiring shortlyto begin what I believe will be fun. I had ordered a planing form from FrankArmbruster and someone caused me to be concerned about my order. For allofyou who may be concerned about Frank and Colorado Bootstrap, I amforwardingthe following from him.Lee ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Planing Form Order Its correct that we've made some changes in how we handle planing formorders. But there's no change in ownership. I'm still the owner. I'vedelegated tha planing form orders and fulfillment to Rich Johnson, apersonal friend and avid flyfisherman. We've changed machine shops also.our old supplier declined to take any more orders. We found a new machineshop to make them. The price has increased to $390.00 plus shipping of$25.00. But if we accepted your order at the old price, we'll honor thatcommitment. We also are still giving a no quibble money-back guarantee.Please pass the word to the group. Thanks. F.O. (Frank) ArmbrusterColoradoBootstrap, Inc. from jallaros@comv.es Mon Jul 24 11:28:38 2000 e6OGSbG07985 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:28:24 +0200User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Subject: Secrets of the Bamboo Fly Rod Hi: I was trying to plot some tapers from Ray Gould book. In Rod model RR-93(Fig. 41, page 34) I don't get what i expected. My be I am wrong, but instation 55 I think the data is wrong. Ray GouldModel RR-93Lenght 7 1/2'Line 4Action FastRise 0,3 Tip 0,0655 0,08110 0,09915 0,11820 0,13325 0,14830 0,16235 0,17740 0,19145 0,20450 0,21855 0,32360 0,24565 0,25970 0,27775 0,380 0,31785 0,32790 0,334 And if I try to calculate the rise of this taper ((0,245-0,099) x2), iget 0,292. What i am doing wrong? from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 24 11:30:04 2000 e6OGU3G08119 09:32:53 PDT Subject: lodge manager greetings all! does anyone know of a job openingmanaging a lodge or resort? i know of a qualifiedperson who is looking for that kind of position. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jul 24 12:09:11 2000 e6OH9AG09994 Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:09:02 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Spey rod, was Using Titebond PU glue Leroy, What lenght would You prefer? I have several tapers on Norwegian builtsalmon rods by Asbjoern Hoergaard, from 12` to 15`... regardsdanny From: leroyt@involved.com (leroy teeple)Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:10:36 - 0700 Subject: RE: Using Titebond PU glue Danny, The brand that I used in the past has been Stuctan, comes in a tubeand is made in Denmark. Did some tests with glued up sections, the jointsheld but the material around the joints broke. Good stuff.Am an Steelheader, who uses a Spey rod. Do you have access to anytapers forbamboo spey rods?Regards,Leroy........ -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 2:31 AM Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Leroy, The brand I`m using is a Norwegian made one, CASCO. Don`t know ifthey are exporting any...I recon its similar to Elmers.regardsdanny Hi, Could you recommend a brand name of the PU that you areusing. Wouldlike to try some as there has to be something better than Gorilla Glue.You can contact me off list.Leroy............-----Original Message-----From: Danny Twang Date: Sunday, July 23, 2000 10:04 AMSubject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Shawn, I`ve been using PU glue for my last few rods, and I got verygood result with it. It is a Norwegian brand, comparable toElmer`s I guess. I takes heat very well, without delamination. I just fold out the strips, apply glue with a toothbrush andbind. I do not mist or thin the glue, just right out from thecontainer. It has a "sirup" consistent, is clear as water anddo not foam up much, just a little out from each end. I lightlywipe of the blank with alchohol on a rag and hang to cure.After two days its ready for unbind and scraping. regardsdanny------->>> Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work From: nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca (Shawn Pineo)Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing withTitebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to bevery thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type(TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Jul 24 12:53:18 2000 e6OHrHG11228 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Spey rod, was Using Titebond PU glue "'Rodmakers'" Importance: Normal Danny, Have you fished any of these spey rods? Are they good tapers? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 1:09 PM Subject: Spey rod, was Using Titebond PU glue Leroy, What lenght would You prefer? I have several tapers on Norwegian builtsalmon rods by Asbjoern Hoergaard, from 12` to 15`... regardsdanny from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Jul 24 13:51:43 2000 e6OIpgG13291 Subject: Re: Secrets of the Bamboo Fly Rod Organization: GOULD Hi Javier and others;You're right station 55 for RR-93-7 1/2ft should be 0.232. It was atypographic mistake by the publisher as was the title of that same chartwhich should have been "Author's rod Tapers".Thanks for pointing it out.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Secrets of the Bamboo Fly Rod Hi: I was trying to plot some tapers from Ray Gould book. In Rod modelRR-93(Fig. 41, page 34) I don't get what i expected. My be I am wrong, but instation 55 I think the data is wrong. Ray GouldModel RR-93Lenght 7 1/2'Line 4Action FastRise 0,3 Tip 0,0655 0,08110 0,09915 0,11820 0,13325 0,14830 0,16235 0,17740 0,19145 0,20450 0,21855 0,32360 0,24565 0,25970 0,27775 0,380 0,31785 0,32790 0,334 And if I try to calculate the rise of this taper ((0,245-0,099) x2), iget 0,292. What i am doing wrong? from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jul 24 14:07:42 2000 e6OJ7eG13952 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Spey rod, was Using Titebond PU glue Richard, No I have never fished them, and I guess I`m not the person to judge thecasting quality of such huge rods...How ever, the owner of the rods says they are excelent. He have a hugecollections of cane rods, and they are not for display, he use them. He`s the one I turn to when I want someone to test cast my rods. He`s avery expirence flyfisher, I have lots of useful comments to give. Also, the builder Asbjoern Hoergaard, started in the 30`s. He hadrelationship with Hardy`s. I don`t know what it was, but he had inventedsome for the rodmaking that they was working together on. We also have long traditions in salmon fishing with spey rods, so I guessthe rods are good. regardsdanny-------Work From: Richard Nantel Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:06:33 -0400 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Spey rod, was Using Titebond PU glue Danny, Have you fished any of these spey rods? Are they good tapers? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 1:09 PM Subject: Spey rod, was Using Titebond PU glue Leroy, What lenght would You prefer? I have several tapers on Norwegian builtsalmon rods by Asbjoern Hoergaard, from 12` to 15`... regardsdanny from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jul 24 14:31:42 2000 e6OJVfG14911 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Steve Trauthwein Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, folks. But Steve, would you contactme off-list. I didn't save your new email address. Thanks,Harry Boyd from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jul 24 15:17:12 2000 e6OKH6G16386 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: PH Young Midge Taper in the Stetzer Rod Taper Database Importance: Normal I was looking through the database (A wonderful job Frank, I might add) at: http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/Tapers/hexrod-archive.html I was interest in looking at the PHY Midge tapers. There's two of them butthe part I'm confused about is that Marty's taper says both it's a 2pc andin anotherr area it says it's a 3pc in there. It appears to be a two pieceas only one ferrule is listed... The other by Larry Blan says it's a 3pc andshows two ferrules. My question is, was it originally a 2 piece or a 3 piece or did he make botha two and a three piece rod? If he made them in a 2pc and 3pc versions, has anyone cast both of themandcan compare them? TIA, Darrell Lee from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 24 15:31:18 2000 e6OKVHG17061 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: Re: PH Young Midge Taper in the Stetzer Rod Taper Database All I can say is that I got one of the early Midges from Paul, in 1953, andit's a 2- pc. ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: PH Young Midge Taper in the Stetzer Rod Taper Database I was looking through the database (A wonderful job Frank, I might add)at: http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/Tapers/hexrod-archive.html I was interest in looking at the PHY Midge tapers. There's two of them butthe part I'm confused about is that Marty's taper says both it's a 2pc andin anotherr area it says it's a 3pc in there. It appears to be a two pieceas only one ferrule is listed... The other by Larry Blan says it's a 3pcandshows two ferrules. My question is, was it originally a 2 piece or a 3 piece or did he makebotha two and a three piece rod? If he made them in a 2pc and 3pc versions, has anyone cast both of themandcan compare them? TIA, Darrell Lee from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 24 15:44:16 2000 e6OKiFG17532 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: The Midge boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF5C0.DF76E420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF5C0.DF76E420 My 1956 catalog states that the Midge, like the rest of the "named" rodsmade by PHY, is a 2-piece rod. PHY did indeed offer 4 3-piece rods, 9` and 9,5` long, at 6 1/4 to 6 3/4ozs. but they are not named. BTW: The Midge had an aluminium ferrule and a snake guide in place ofa normal stripping guide. The blank weighs 1 3/4 ozs. Rod with extra =tippartitioned bag and case was priced at USD 75 regards,carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF5C0.DF76E420 My 1956 catalog states that the Midge,= rest of the "named" rodsmade by PHY, is a 2-piece rod.PHY = offer 4 3-piece rods, 9` and 9,5` long, at 6 1/4 to 6 3/4ozs. but = not named.BTW: The Midge had an aluminium ferrule and a snake = 75regards,carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFF5C0.DF76E420-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 24 15:49:41 2000 e6OKneG17846 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:51:10 -0500 Subject: Re: The Midge Yes, I have a PHY 9'-5" Parabolic #11. It's 3 - pc., and a great bugging rod GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: The Midge My 1956 catalog states that the Midge, like the rest of the "named" rodsmade by PHY, is a 2-piece rod. PHY did indeed offer 4 3-piece rods, 9` and 9,5` long, at 6 1/4 to 6 3/4ozs. but they are not named. BTW: The Midge had an aluminium ferrule and a snake guide in place ofa normal stripping guide. The blank weighs 1 3/4 ozs. Rod with extra tippartitioned bag and case was priced at USD 75 regards,carsten from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jul 24 16:06:23 2000 e6OL6CG18582 (204.186.211.7) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: The Midge Not all PHY Midges had alum. ferrules. The one I have serial # 34xx hasmarked Super Z NS ferrules (blued), NS cap and ring seat stamped "Paul HYoung Co. Detroit- Mich.", A standard blued tungsten steel 8mm strippingguide. I think paul would appoint them the way the customer wanted. Thisis a 2 pc.er , never saw a 3pc. Marty My 1956 catalog states that the Midge, like the rest of the "named"rodsmade by PHY, is a 2-piece rod. PHY did indeed offer 4 3-piece rods, 9` and 9,5` long, at 6 1/4 to 63/4ozs. but they are not named. BTW: The Midge had an aluminium ferrule and a snake guide in place ofa normal stripping guide. The blank weighs 1 3/4 ozs. Rod with extratippartitioned bag and case was priced at USD 75 regards,carsten from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Jul 24 16:13:17 2000 e6OLDGG18928 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:13:12 +0100 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Taper Conversion Pete,Danny's English can be bad at times ( and good at others )but havingseen the last e-mail I would suggest it's a two handed parabolic flagpole......tee, hee, heeeeee Danny Twang wrote: Are You pulling my leg here....?If I not messed up, it should be a 12` two handed salmon rod. Ideleted my "sent" folderso I can`t check what I did sent......... regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Danny Is that a rod, or have you accidentally given us thespecifications for the mast of a 12 metre yacht? Peter from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Jul 24 16:26:34 2000 e6OLQXG19438 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:26:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Pezon & Michel rod Gordon,The Fario Club is a very famous rod( and having owned two I am amazed atwhy.....I for one have never liked parabolics....I digress ! ).To help you and the lady in concern here are a few prices for you toconsider;Here in the UK a new P&M Fario Club with 2 tops retails for £1050 UKpounds sterling.Second Hand they are currently retailing on the used rod scene atbetween £220 to £595 UK pounds sterling depending on which dealer isselling them and depending on their condition.Good luck with disposing of the rod............Paul Gordon Hollingsworth wrote: Hi, A member of my fishing club died recently leaving several cane rods.The widow asked me to help her value and sell them. One in particularlooks wonderful, but I have never heard of the maker. It is fromParis, France, and based upon the age of the owner is probably postWWII. The rod maker is Pezon & Michel, and the rod says: Ritz SuperParabolic FFP "Fario Club". I didn't measure it, but think it isaround 8'6". It weighs 5 5/8 oz. It is a two piece rod with an extratip. Anyone ever hear of this baby? from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 24 16:36:17 2000 e6OLaHG19896 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:36:16 +0200 Subject: Sv: The Midge e6OLaHG19897 Marty, You right ofcourse. I seem to remember that the aluminium ferruleswere only there for a period, but honestly cant say for how long. Also theywere anodized. regards,carsten Not all PHY Midges had alum. ferrules. The one I have serial # 34xx hasmarked Super Z NS ferrules (blued), NS cap and ring seat stamped "Paul HYoung Co. Detroit- Mich.", A standard blued tungsten steel 8mm strippingguide. I think paul would appoint them the way the customer wanted. Thisis a 2 pc.er , never saw a 3pc. Marty My 1956 catalog states that the Midge, like the rest of the "named"rodsmade by PHY, is a 2-piece rod. PHY did indeed offer 4 3-piece rods, 9` and 9,5` long, at 6 1/4 to 63/4ozs. but they are not named. BTW: The Midge had an aluminium ferrule and a snake guide in place ofa normal stripping guide. The blank weighs 1 3/4 ozs. Rod with extratippartitioned bag and case was priced at USD 75 regards,carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 24 16:42:09 2000 e6OLg8G20168 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Taper Conversion e6OLg9G20169 Pete, the Hoergaard catolog states that the HC rod is with a fastaction for dryfly fishing. Imaging laying a size 18 midge imitationaccurately at 80 feet!! Mindblowing, I'd say. If it is a flagpole remains to be seen - I am just starting makingferrules for this rod - the blank is finished, handle is in place, andI have found this little stream with 10 inch brownies, sooooo..... regards,carsten Pete,Danny's English can be bad at times ( and good at others )but havingseen the last e-mail I would suggest it's a two handed parabolic flagpole......tee, hee, heeeeee Danny Twang wrote: Are You pulling my leg here....?If I not messed up, it should be a 12` two handed salmon rod. Ideleted my "sent" folderso I can`t check what I did sent......... regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Danny Is that a rod, or have you accidentally given us thespecifications for the mast of a 12 metre yacht? Peter from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 24 16:45:56 2000 e6OLjtG20393 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Taper Conversion e6OLjuG20394 Come to think of it, I'll hit the little bastards with thisrod if they wont go for the midge..... regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: Taper Conversion Pete, the Hoergaard catolog states that the HC rod is with a fastaction for dryfly fishing. Imaging laying a size 18 midge imitationaccurately at 80 feet!! Mindblowing, I'd say. If it is a flagpole remains to be seen - I am just starting makingferrules for this rod - the blank is finished, handle is in place, andI have found this little stream with 10 inch brownies, sooooo..... regards,carsten Pete,Danny's English can be bad at times ( and good at others )but havingseen the last e-mail I would suggest it's a two handed parabolic flagpole......tee, hee, heeeeee Danny Twang wrote: Are You pulling my leg here....?If I not messed up, it should be a 12` two handed salmon rod. Ideleted my "sent" folderso I can`t check what I did sent......... regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Danny Is that a rod, or have you accidentally given us thespecifications for the mast of a 12 metre yacht? Peter from bamboo@pa.net Mon Jul 24 18:12:04 2000 e6ONC3G22716 Subject: one piece rod tapers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5A2.F25929E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5A2.F25929E0 Gentlemen I've been hiding in cyber space reading the comments on this =list for months and now I have a question. Does anyone have any tapers =they dont mind sharing for one piece rods. Say a 6' 4# or possibly tell =