me if there is any conversion necessary between two piece and one piece =rods. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5A2.F25929E0 Gentlemen I've been hiding in cyber = 4# or possibly tell me if there is any conversion necessary between two = and one piece rods. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFF5A2.F25929E0-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Jul 24 20:07:22 2000 e6P17LG24604 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Pezon & Michel rod At 10:56 AM 7/24/2000 +0200, Danny Twang wrote: I don't know when Pezon & Michel started making the Super PPPParabolic series, but the Fario Club is the most famous one. regards danny Gordon Hollingsworth wrote: ArialHi,ArialA member of my fishing clubdied recently leaving several cane rods. The widow asked me to help hervalue and sell them. One in particular looks wonderful, but I have never heardof the maker. It is from Paris, France, and based upon the age of the owneris probably post WWII. The rod maker is Pezon & Michel, and the rod says: Ritz Super Parabolic FFP "Fario Club". I didn't measure it, but think it isaround 8'6". It weighs 5 5/8 oz. It is a two piece rod with an extratip.ArialAnyone ever hear of thisbaby? from ddeloach@pcisys.net Mon Jul 24 20:38:56 2000 e6P1ctG25256 Subject: Michael Sinclair Can someone supply an email address for Michael Sinclair? Sorry for the Bandwidth-Don DeLoach from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 24 20:48:42 2000 e6P1mfG25536 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:47:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Michael Sinclair Caneclinic@aol.com GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Michael Sinclair Can someone supply an email address for Michael Sinclair? Sorry for the Bandwidth-Don DeLoach from mep@mint.net Tue Jul 25 04:16:09 2000 e6P9G8G01523 Tue, 25 Jul 2000 05:15:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Spey rod, was Using Titebond PU glue I'd be interested in a good taper for a spey rod as well. I have somelandlocked salmon rivers up here that I've wanted to fish with a longerrod for some time now. Mike from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Jul 25 04:34:00 2000 e6P9XwG01927 Subject: Norwegian spey rod tapers FAA9D9AB13338A8D932B095D" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- FAA9D9AB13338A8D932B095D Here You go, if any builts them let me here how they comes out. If any haveing trouble open the attachments, let me here from You and Ican pasteit into the mail...... regardsdanny --------------FAA9D9AB13338A8D932B095D Horgörd Tana 131/2` #10 11/2 ,1005 ,12010 ,15015 ,17020 ,20225 ,21530 ,227535 ,23740 ,252545 ,27050 ,28653 12/16 ,296 57 12/16 ,32060 ,33265 ,35270 ,37575 ,39180 ,40985 ,42590 ,44295 ,458100 ,472105 ,496106 7/16 ,500 113 ,515115 ,547120 ,564125 ,583130 ,600131 8/16 ,608korkhöndtak fortsetter vidre ned, hver seksjon er 1412 mm lange. from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jul 25 04:40:09 2000 e6P9e8G02129 (204.186.33.29) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: The Midge CALucker@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/24/00 2:07:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.netwrites: marked Super Z NS ferrules (blued), NS cap and ring seat stamped "Paul HYoung Co. Detroit- Mich.", >>What Carsten was refering to is early Midges. All early Paul Young Midges,except those which were custom ordered, came with aluminum ferrulesthose twoblack knurled aluminum bands and snake guides for strippers. The onlyMidgesI have seen with a cap and ring such as yours have been kit rods -- oneowned I have never owned a Midge with a Perfection stripper guide that had theearly imitation silk moire bag -- only cotton bags for the later Paul Youngrods.Chris Hi Chris, I checked the serial # and it's #3622 which puts the rod around1959.It's not early but was built while PHY was alive. Yes , the rod has acotton bag not the imitation silk. It does have the aircraft conduit for a rodtube however. Marty from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Jul 25 06:14:28 2000 e6PBEQG03421 Subject: danny Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF67C.512C5260" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF67C.512C5260 Danny the attachments were fine.My oh my, those are big, powerful rods. Were they hollow built, or are =they all solid?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF67C.512C5260 Danny the attachments were =fine.My oh my, those are big, powerful rods.= hollow built, or are they all solid?Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BFF67C.512C5260-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 25 07:10:25 2000 e6PCAPG04239 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:08:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Norwegian spey rod tapers Good grief, that's a tree trunk ! (grin) Surely you site cast these ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Norwegian spey rod tapers Here You go, if any builts them let me here how they comes out. If any haveing trouble open the attachments, let me here from You and Ican pasteit into the mail...... regardsdanny -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Horgörd Tana 131/2` #10 11/2 ,1005 ,12010 ,15015 ,17020 ,20225 ,21530 ,227535 ,23740 ,252545 ,27050 ,28653 12/16 ,296 57 12/16 ,32060 ,33265 ,35270 ,37575 ,39180 ,40985 ,42590 ,44295 ,458100 ,472105 ,496106 7/16 ,500 113 ,515115 ,547120 ,564125 ,583130 ,600131 8/16 ,608korkhöndtak fortsetter vidre ned, hver seksjon er 1412 mm lange. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Jul 25 07:15:37 2000 e6PCFaG04437 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35);Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:11:03 -0500 Subject: Re: The Midge Mine appears to be a "poplin" bag, and the tube is dark plastic, with rubberend caps. I never knew such aircraft conduit, if that's what mine is ??? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Midge CALucker@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/24/00 2:07:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.netwrites: marked Super Z NS ferrules (blued), NS cap and ring seat stamped "PaulHYoung Co. Detroit- Mich.", >>What Carsten was refering to is early Midges. All early Paul YoungMidges,except those which were custom ordered, came with aluminum ferrulesthose twoblack knurled aluminum bands and snake guides for strippers. The onlyMidgesI have seen with a cap and ring such as yours have been kit rods -- oneowned I have never owned a Midge with a Perfection stripper guide that had theearly imitation silk moire bag -- only cotton bags for the later PaulYoungrods.Chris Hi Chris, I checked the serial # and it's #3622 which puts the rodaround 1959.It's not early but was built while PHY was alive. Yes , the rodhas a cotton bag not the imitation silk. It does have the aircraft conduit from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Jul 25 07:54:37 2000 e6PCsZG05438 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: danny 126E4F6E17536C70AD249DAF" --------------126E4F6E17536C70AD249DAF Peter, Those are standard size salmon rods here in Norway, I have never fished HC and Tana is actually double built in the butt, the rest is solidsingle built.... regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Danny the attachments were fine.My oh my, those are big, powerfulrods. Were they hollow built, or are they all solid?Peter --------------126E4F6E17536C70AD249DAF Peter, Those are standard size salmon rods here in Norway, I have never fished HC and Tana is actually double built in the butt, the rest is solidsingle built.... regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Dannythe attachments were fine.Myoh my, those are big, powerful rods. Were they hollow built, or are theyall solid?Peter --------------126E4F6E17536C70AD249DAF-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 25 09:05:24 2000 e6PE5NG08225 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: silk line braiding machine Friends,I know a while back some of you were looking for picturesand what not of silk line braiding machines. While browsing the Catskillflyfishing museum's web page I stumbled upon guess what....pictures of aweaving machine they have sitting idle in the building. Just some info Shawn from leroyt@involved.com Tue Jul 25 09:26:09 2000 e6PEQ8G09085 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:26:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Norwegian spey rod tapers Danny, Got the attachnents, no problem. Thanks, Leroy............-----Original Message----- Subject: Norwegian spey rod tapers Here You go, if any builts them let me here how they comes out. If any haveing trouble open the attachments, let me here from You and Ican pasteit into the mail...... regardsdanny from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jul 25 09:28:55 2000 e6PESsG09259 [207.205.135.85] (may be forged)) Subject: Shakespeare #1350, "Texas Bug Rod" Hello Gang:A while back I got the subject 9' rod via eBay. The first 7.5" from thewinding check is a chocolate color with some minor chips. I'm assumingsomething was mixed into the varnish at the factory to create this. Thechipped spots show clear cane underneath. I'd like to refinish withouttotal removal of this color in order to save decals, etc. Any suggestions?Contact off list if you wanna see pic.TIA.Ed from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Jul 25 09:45:55 2000 e6PEjsG10097 Subject: Mike Roberts--non-rodmaking boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BFF625.731A75C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BFF625.731A75C0 Mike,Please buzz me back, I left your email address at the house, DUH!!PS- got the snail mail. (Sorry guys about the bandwidth)Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BFF625.731A75C0 Mike,Please buzz me back, I left your email = PS- got the snail mail. (Sorry guys about the bandwidth)Mike ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BFF625.731A75C0-- from bamboo@pa.net Tue Jul 25 10:00:23 2000 e6PF0LG11035 Subject: one piece rod tapers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFF627.717DF1E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFF627.717DF1E0 A big thank you to all wh sent responses on one piece rod tapers. I =just got done torching some cane and am anxious to start planing again. =This will have to wait for a couple of weeks though, because I'm digging =out my "plastic" rods to chase Redfish, Tarpon, and Snook around Sanibel =Island. Anyone familiar with this area or any suggestions I'd be =pleased to here from them. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFF627.717DF1E0 because I'm digging out my "plastic" rods to chase Redfish, Tarpon, and = I'd be pleased to here from them. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFF627.717DF1E0-- from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jul 25 10:19:13 2000 e6PFJDG11823 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:13:52 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Shakespeare #1350, "Texas Bug Rod" Ed,I once got a rod that was coated with a wine red varnish to refinishthat was the same way... a few chips, but didn't want to strip it, justrepair the chips. I used Liquid Coloring extracts for Musical InstrumentVarnishes from International Violin Company,http://www.internationalviolin.com , mixing them with my rod varnish (smallquantities) and dipping small pieces of scrap cane in them til I came upwith the right color. Then I simply took a small artists brush and filledthe chips with the varnish. It took several applications to get it built upabove the original varnish. After I got the build higher than original, Ilet it cure for a couple of weeks, then sanded it down with 1000 gritwet&dry, and polished it out. The repairs were 'almost' invisible... youreally had to be looking for them to find them.Another option, more convenient but no less expensive in the long run,is to get a good stain from the hardware store, mix it with your varnish andobtain the right shade. This will work, but the it is much easier to mixand obtain the correct shading with the liquid extracts. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Shakespeare #1350, "Texas Bug Rod" Hello Gang:A while back I got the subject 9' rod via eBay. The first 7.5" from thewinding check is a chocolate color with some minor chips. I'm assumingsomething was mixed into the varnish at the factory to create this. Thechipped spots show clear cane underneath. I'd like to refinish withouttotal removal of this color in order to save decals, etc. Any suggestions?Contact off list if you wanna see pic.TIA.Ed from rmoon@ida.net Tue Jul 25 11:23:39 2000 e6PGNdG14543 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: Shakespeare #1350, "Texas Bug Rod" Bob I have tried varnish stains, and never could get them to work.They alsays ran off the corners and beaded up in the center. Lookedlike Hell. I never tried to spray, but both dipping and brushing werefailures.Ralph from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 25 11:33:14 2000 e6PGXBG15108 09:36:43 PDT Subject: Re: Shakespeare #1350, "Texas Bug Rod" come on you guys! get'er dipped and let's go fishin'.'least ways i wish i could get out today. we arehaving such a good summer in the upper midwest thisyear! timothy --- Ralph W Moon wrote:Bob I have tried varnish stains, and never couldget them to work.They alsays ran off the corners and beaded up in thecenter. Lookedlike Hell. I never tried to spray, but both dippingand brushing werefailures.Ralph ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Ddrochejr@aol.com Tue Jul 25 11:36:38 2000 e6PGabG15398 2000 12:36:25 -0400 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Jul 25 12:45:08 2000 e6PHj7G18178 Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:45:00 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Norwegian spey rod tapers e6PHj8G18183 No, I have never casted any rod longer than 9`...But I have the blanks for the HC (12`), actually I have a bunch ofA.Hoergaard blanks and ferrules, bought when they where closing downa few years ago.... it is a mix of plenty butt`s and midts and tip`s.The HC is the only ones that I have found the pieces for so far.Its a lot of measuring to sort out all the rods..... So maybe one day, I`ll try out those huge rods in a salmon river..... regardsdanny From: "nobler" Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:13:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Norwegian spey rod tapers Good grief, that's a tree trunk ! (grin) Surely you site cast these ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Danny Twang" Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 4:36 AMSubject: Norwegian spey rod tapers Here You go, if any builts them let me here how they comes out. If any haveing trouble open the attachments, let me here from You and Ican pasteit into the mail...... regardsdanny -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Horgörd Tana 131/2` #10 11/2 ,1005 ,12010 ,15015 ,17020 ,20225 ,21530 ,227535 ,23740 ,252545 ,27050 ,28653 12/16 ,296 57 12/16 ,32060 ,33265 ,35270 ,37575 ,39180 ,40985 ,42590 ,44295 ,458100 ,472105 ,496106 7/16 ,500 113 ,515115 ,547120 ,564125 ,583130 ,600131 8/16 ,608korkhöndtak fortsetter vidre ned, hver seksjon er 1412 mm lange. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jul 25 12:51:00 2000 e6PHoxG18479 KAA13924 ESMTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:50:42 -0700 (5.5.2650.21) "'dannyt@frisurf.no'" Subject: RE: Norwegian spey rod tapers e6PHp0G18480 here in the great northwest we use spey rods for fishing salmon in ourrivers. The banks are covered with trees and brush and a spey cast lendsitself to fishing for salmon and steelhead. It's a kind of figure eight roll cast. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Danny Twang[SMTP:dannyt@frisurf.no] Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Norwegian spey rod tapers No, I have never casted any rod longer than 9`...But I have the blanks for the HC (12`), actually I have a bunch ofA.Hoergaard blanks and ferrules, bought when they where closing downa few years ago.... it is a mix of plenty butt`s and midts and tip`s.The HC is the only ones that I have found the pieces for so far.Its a lot of measuring to sort out all the rods..... So maybe one day, I`ll try out those huge rods in a salmon river..... regardsdanny From: "nobler" Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:13:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Norwegian spey rod tapers Good grief, that's a tree trunk ! (grin) Surely you site cast these ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Danny Twang" Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 4:36 AMSubject: Norwegian spey rod tapers Here You go, if any builts them let me here how they comes out. If any haveing trouble open the attachments, let me here from You and Ican pasteit into the mail...... regardsdanny -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- H> orgörd Tana 131/2` #10 11/2 ,1005 ,12010 ,15015 ,17020 ,20225 ,21530 ,227535 ,23740 ,252545 ,27050 ,28653 12/16 ,296 57 12/16 ,32060 ,33265 ,35270 ,37575 ,39180 ,40985 ,42590 ,44295 ,458100 ,472105 ,496106 7/16 ,500 113 ,515115 ,547120 ,564125 ,583130 ,600131 8/16 ,608korkhöndtak fortsetter vidre ned, hver seksjon er 1412 mm lange. from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jul 25 13:41:25 2000 e6PIfOG20488 Subject: Re: Shakespeare #1350, "Texas Bug Rod" Tim:My question was more attuned to restoring this '40 Ford than driving in theIndy 500. Bob, Ralph, I appreciate your comments.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Shakespeare #1350, "Texas Bug Rod" come on you guys! get'er dipped and let's go fishin'.'least ways i wish i could get out today. we arehaving such a good summer in the upper midwest thisyear! timothy --- Ralph W Moon wrote:Bob I have tried varnish stains, and never couldget them to work.They alsays ran off the corners and beaded up in thecenter. Lookedlike Hell. I never tried to spray, but both dippingand brushing werefailures.Ralph ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jul 25 13:53:41 2000 e6PIrfG21122 SMTPSVC;Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:53:08 -0700 Subject: Spey Rods Danny,I've often thought a 5-6 or a 6-7 10' spey rod would be ideal for some ofthe small water here in the Northwest. Have any tapers? 95% of the fishing Ido anymore is for Salmon & Steelhead with a 9-10 14' spey rod. In smallwater I get comments "No wonder you caught that fish, he was afraid if hedidn't strike you'd club him with that stick" or " Does that thing come withwheels and a hitch?" I'll be visiting your country last week in August first week in September.No time to fish on this trip - bummer. Don SchneiderWoodinville, WA from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Jul 25 14:13:38 2000 e6PJDbG21897 Subject: Re: Spey Rods Bill Waara had a 12 foot, 6 weight, 2 handed spey rod at the 1999 GrandGathering. I found that I could effortlessly roll cast almost 60 feetacross the casting pond. Maybe one of the Michigan guys has that taper? Bill Waara, who passed away last year, was the Michigan bamboo rod guru formany of us. Maybe Ron Barch could publish this taper in the Planing Form?----------From: homessold Subject: Spey RodsDate: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 2:53 PM Danny,I've often thought a 5-6 or a 6-7 10' spey rod would be ideal for some ofthe small water here in the Northwest. Have any tapers? 95% of thefishing Ido anymore is for Salmon & Steelhead with a 9-10 14' spey rod. In smallwater I get comments "No wonder you caught that fish, he was afraid if hedidn't strike you'd club him with that stick" or " Does that thing comewithwheels and a hitch?" I'll be visiting your country last week in August first week inSeptember.No time to fish on this trip - bummer. Don SchneiderWoodinville, WA from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 25 15:30:30 2000 e6PKUTG24722 13:30:29 PDT Subject: Re: Spey Rods my first two rods where warra tapers. i would like thetaper also. timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:Bill Waara had a 12 foot, 6 weight, 2 handed speyrod at the 1999 GrandGathering. I found that I could effortlessly rollcast almost 60 feetacross the casting pond. Maybe one of the Michiganguys has that taper? Bill Waara, who passed away last year, was theMichigan bamboo rod guru formany of us. Maybe Ron Barch could publish thistaper in the Planing Form?----------From: homessold Subject: Spey RodsDate: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 2:53 PM Danny,I've often thought a 5-6 or a 6-7 10' spey rod> would be ideal for someofthe small water here in the Northwest. Have anytapers? 95% of thefishing Ido anymore is for Salmon & Steelhead with a 9-1014' spey rod. In smallwater I get comments "No wonder you caught thatfish, he was afraid if hedidn't strike you'd club him with that stick" or "Does that thing comewithwheels and a hitch?" I'll be visiting your country last week in Augustfirst week inSeptember.No time to fish on this trip - bummer. Don SchneiderWoodinville, WA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Jul 25 17:27:03 2000 e6PMR2G28184 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Spey Rods e6PMR3G28185 A 12 feet #6 !!!!!! A rod I simply have to have - anyone out there having that taper,PLEASE post it to the List. regards,Carsten from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jul 25 18:16:50 2000 e6PNGoG29510 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Ferrule making boundary="=====================_13347845==_.ALT" --=====================_13347845==_.ALT Could someone who has a Sherline lathe and is making ferrules from tubing let me know what tools they have had success with? I am wondering about ...* the reaming* using carbide insert style cutters.* Should I get the Sherline 3/8 tool holder and get everything else somewhere else?* Are collets preferable to the 3 chuck jaw?I have the instructions on making them, but many of you are the real experts on metal working.Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_13347845==_.ALT Could someone who has a Sherline lathe and is making ferrules from tubinglet me know what tools they have had success with? I am wondering about... the reaming using carbide insert style cutters. Should I get the Sherline 3/8 tool holder and get everything elsesomewhere else? Are collets preferable to the 3 chuck jaw?I have the instructions on making them, but many of you are the realexperts on metal working. Thanks in advance, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_13347845==_.ALT-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jul 25 19:20:45 2000 e6Q0KjG01135 TAA19902 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:20:45 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id TAA17242 for Subject: Re: Spey Rods The 12'6" Bill Waara spey rod is in The Planing Form, May/June 1997.Its on my "to do someday" list. This is how it is shown there. The stations aren't given..Is thetip shorter than the other sections? Or is the 0" measurement justnot shown? Tip Mid Butt244 368078 258 378102 272 388136 286 398154 296 410168 300 422184 312 430198 324 430200 336 430216 348 430230 358 430 The guide spacing is also given. If someone is looking to do some "Community Service", it sure would benice to have an index to TPF, organizing all the articles, tapers,short notes, etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Ted Knott wrote: Bill Waara had a 12 foot, 6 weight, 2 handed spey rod at the 1999 GrandGathering. I found that I could effortlessly roll cast almost 60 feetacross the casting pond. Maybe one of the Michigan guys has that taper? Bill Waara, who passed away last year, was the Michigan bamboo rod guruformany of us. Maybe Ron Barch could publish this taper in the Planing Form?---------- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jul 25 20:04:06 2000 e6Q145G01868 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: Fisheyes and Varnishes Awhile back, there was much discussion about the fisheyes and varnishes... Iwas looking in an old 1998 Constantines catalog and looked them up in theironline catalog... Anyone use them and how do you like/dislike them... Fish Eye Destroyer http://www.constantines.com/page62.htmLast and Last Spar Varnish http://www.constantines.com/page62.htmConstantines Tung Oil Varnish http://www.constantines.com/page63.htm Regards, Darrell from leroyt@involved.com Tue Jul 25 20:18:44 2000 e6Q1IhG02326 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:18:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrule making boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF665.51DF9440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF665.51DF9440 Hi Bob, I had a Sherline once and would say little difficult to do, but =you can make ferrules from tubing.The reaming: check the mfgrs. specs as to how much material that you =need to leave after drilling, use a good cutting fluid and plenty of it, =and slow your speed accordingly.Carbide inserts, any type that is o.k. for brass will work fine.Yes to question three and four.Good Luck,Leroy......... -----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrule making Could someone who has a Sherline lathe and is making ferrules from =tubing let me know what tools they have had success with? I am wondering = c.. Should I get the Sherline 3/8 tool holder and get everything = I have the instructions on making them, but many of you are the real = Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF665.51DF9440 difficult to do, but you can make ferrules from tubing.The reaming: check the mfgrs. specs as to how much= that you need to leave after drilling, use a good cutting fluid and = it, and slow your speed accordingly.Carbide inserts, any type that is o.k. for brass = fine.Yes to question three and four.Good Luck,Leroy......... rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = making someone who has a Sherline lathe and is making ferrules from tubing = Should I get the Sherline 3/8 tool holder and get everything = instructions on making them, but many of you are the real experts on = =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Ddownandacross.com bob@downandacross.com = ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFF665.51DF9440-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Jul 25 20:27:12 2000 e6Q1RBG02769 Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Spey Rods I'm about to start that rod. I'd appreciate getting the guide spacing ifanyone has a minute. Many thanks in advance, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Spey Rods The 12'6" Bill Waara spey rod is in The Planing Form, May/June 1997.Its on my "to do someday" list. This is how it is shown there. The stations aren't given..Is thetip shorter than the other sections? Or is the 0" measurement justnot shown? Tip Mid Butt244 368078 258 378102 272 388136 286 398154 296 410168 300 422184 312 430198 324 430200 336 430216 348 430230 358 430 The guide spacing is also given. If someone is looking to do some "Community Service", it sure would benice to have an index to TPF, organizing all the articles, tapers,short notes, etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Ted Knott wrote: Bill Waara had a 12 foot, 6 weight, 2 handed spey rod atthe 1999 GrandGathering. I found that I could effortlessly roll castalmost 60 feetacross the casting pond. Maybe one of the Michigan guyshas that taper?Bill Waara, who passed away last year, was the Michiganbamboo rod guru formany of us. Maybe Ron Barch could publish this taper inthe Planing Form?---------- from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Jul 25 20:29:16 2000 e6Q1TGG02877 Subject: Re: Spey Rods There was a subject/author index for the Planing Form distributed at theCorbett Lake Gathering, 2000. I cant remember who the author was. ----------From: Frank Stetzer Subject: Re: Spey RodsDate: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 8:20 PM The 12'6" Bill Waara spey rod is in The Planing Form, May/June 1997.Its on my "to do someday" list. This is how it is shown there. The stations aren't given..Is thetip shorter than the other sections? Or is the 0" measurement justnot shown? Tip Mid Butt244 368078 258 378102 272 388136 286 398154 296 410168 300 422184 312 430198 324 430200 336 430216 348 430230 358 430 The guide spacing is also given. If someone is looking to do some "Community Service", it sure would benice to have an index to TPF, organizing all the articles, tapers,short notes, etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Ted Knott wrote: Bill Waara had a 12 foot, 6 weight, 2 handed spey rod at the 1999 GrandGathering. I found that I could effortlessly roll cast almost 60 feetacross the casting pond. Maybe one of the Michigan guys has thattaper? Bill Waara, who passed away last year, was the Michigan bamboo rod guruformany of us. Maybe Ron Barch could publish this taper in the PlaningForm?---------- from BJCarlson@webtv.net Tue Jul 25 21:35:03 2000 e6Q2Z3G04328 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA21304; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:34:58 - ETAsAhQUbI10RQmlgUcKUzEGjUkeflFe3gIUf0eSJA/7clDf6a64VeEX4NVadgQ= Subject: Rod Tubes Does anyone know where to buy quantities of black, matte rod tubes.Have tried every source that I can think of but can't find those tubes. TIA Bob from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jul 25 22:01:16 2000 e6Q31GG04859 Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:01:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Spey Rods Ted That taper was published in the Planing Form - there is an error in thetaper - I took it and adapted it for my Shenandoah Spey - It is a bit morepowerfulthan Bill's original according to John Long. Tom Smithwick brought the one Ibuilt Theversion he has seems best with a DT7. Chris On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:12:02 -0400, Ted Knott wrote: Bill Waara had a 12 foot, 6 weight, 2 handed spey rod at the 1999 GrandGathering. I found that I could effortlessly roll cast almost 60 feetacross the casting pond. Maybe one of the Michigan guys has that taper? Bill Waara, who passed away last year, was the Michigan bamboo rod guruformany of us. Maybe Ron Barch could publish this taper in the Planing Form?----------From: homessold Subject: Spey RodsDate: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 2:53 PM Danny,I've often thought a 5-6 or a 6-7 10' spey rod would be ideal for some ofthe small water here in the Northwest. Have any tapers? 95% of thefishing Ido anymore is for Salmon & Steelhead with a 9-10 14' spey rod. In smallwater I get comments "No wonder you caught that fish, he was afraid ifhedidn't strike you'd club him with that stick" or " Does that thing comewithwheels and a hitch?" I'll be visiting your country last week in August first week inSeptember.No time to fish on this trip - bummer. Don SchneiderWoodinville, WA from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Jul 25 22:01:21 2000 e6Q31KG04864 (envelope- from mrmac@tcimet.net) Subject: Re: Rod Tubes Hey, Bob - try here: http://www.cortlandline.com/rodbuilding/rod_cases.html I haven't bought from them direct, but have a couple of their black tubes Igot from someone getting out of the hobby. I think they're pretty nice. No (no financial interest, etc). Hope this helps ya, mac Bob Carlson wrote: Does anyone know where to buy quantities of black, matte rod tubes.Have tried every source that I can think of but can't find those tubes. TIA Bob from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jul 25 22:14:18 2000 e6Q3EIG05293 Subject: spey rod I agree with Chris that there was dimension missing from the taper in TPF. Here is what Chris came up with. It is a slow, smooth, classic spey taper0- .0785- .10210-.11815-.13620-.15425-.17030- .18435-.20040-.21645-.23050-.24455-.25860-.27265-.28670-.30075- .31280-.32490-.34895-.358100-.368105-.378110-.388115-.398120- .410125-.422130-.430135-.430140-.430144-.430 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 25 22:31:27 2000 e6Q3VQG05869 20:31:26 PDT Subject: "THAT" so-called sage rod movie all, i communicated with dave low at sage rod companyabout the sage movie that got us fired up over theweekend. he said that a canadian company made themovie for television and they had nothing to do withit. they shot a few minutes at the factory. theyhave not seen the movie and were trying to get hold ofa copy. thought everyone would like to know. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from briansr@point-net.com Tue Jul 25 23:15:10 2000 e6Q4F9G06549 Subject: Re Spey rods I read with great interest the recent posts on Spey rods.Anyone that isgoing to build the 12 ft # 6 will have to make their own Spey length line.Anordinary double taper won't have enough belly length to properly speycast.You'll have to splice about 30 ft from the mid section of one line intothe line that you intend on putting on the reel.Also ,most commercial(if notall) double taper Spey lines will need to have the first 2 to 3 ft of linecut off to enable the leader turn over properly.Lastly make your leaders ATLEAST as long as your rod .I for one will be definately building th Waara #6and at least one of the tapers that Danny provided.Cheers Brian from wiljette@nmia.com Tue Jul 25 23:45:51 2000 e6Q4joG07246 via sendmail with smtp (Smail-3.2.0.106 1999-Mar-31 #3 built 1999-Apr-19) Subject: Re: Rod Tubes Bob: I just received a catalog from REC Components. They have a powdercoated aluminum rod tube named "Tuxedo Black" which may be what you arelooking for. Web address is www.rec.com. No personal financial interestetc.... Will----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod Tubes Does anyone know where to buy quantities of black, matte rod tubes.Have tried every source that I can think of but can't find those tubes. TIA Bob from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Jul 26 06:22:32 2000 e6QBMUG11977 Subject: tim Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFF746.9B73EB60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFF746.9B73EB60 Yeah ! Like it's snowing here and it's minus 2 degrees Centigrade ! Thanks a bunch ! :-( Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFF746.9B73EB60 Yeah ! Like it's snowing here and it's = degrees Centigrade ! Thanks a bunch ! :-( Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BFF746.9B73EB60-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Jul 26 08:11:11 2000 e6QDBAG13884 Subject: test sorry about the bandwidth. I'm receiving postings but mine are being rejected. Paul from Paradise52@aol.com Wed Jul 26 08:54:50 2000 e6QDsnG15361 Jul 2000 09:54:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes Dear Bob,I deal a lot with REC, since they are located nearby me in CT. They have greatrod tubes that can be finished in any color and made to just about any size.Check them out at www.rec.com Regards,Mark from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Jul 26 09:26:12 2000 e6QEQCG16434 corsair.locl.net (8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25093 for Subject: Roscoe Mtg boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0092_01BFF6E5.15939380" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01BFF6E5.15939380 Is there a web site for info on the Roscoe meeting? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01BFF6E5.15939380 Is there a web site for info on the= meeting? Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0092_01BFF6E5.15939380-- from dhaftel@att.com Wed Jul 26 09:37:43 2000 e6QEbgG16921 KAA05639; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) Rodmakers Subject: RE: Roscoe Mtg Dennis, Try http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/ Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Roscoe Mtg Is there a web site for info on the Roscoe meeting? Dennis Bertram from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jul 26 15:42:02 2000 e6QKg0G29890 Subject: Taper For Edwards A&F Favorite All, I have acquired an Edwards Abercrombie and Fitch 7'6" "Favorite" rod withthe last 6" of the tip missing. Does anyone have this rod or the taper forit? I would greatly appreciate it if someone could post the taper. I amalready impressed with the rod as a 7 footer. Thanks in advance,-DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jul 26 15:50:44 2000 e6QKoiG00269 Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:50:37 -0400 Subject: Re: spey rod Tom You forgot the 85" station - .236 if my guess is right. Chris On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:14:04 EDT, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: I agree with Chris that there was dimension missing from the taper in TPF. Here is what Chris came up with. It is a slow, smooth, classic spey taper0- .0785- .10210-.11815-.13620-.15425-.17030- .18435-.20040-.21645-.23050-.24455-.25860-.27265-.28670-.30075- .31280-.32490-.34895-.358100-.368105-.378110-.388115-.398120- .410125-.422130-.430135-.430140-.430144-.430 from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jul 26 17:53:59 2000 e6QMrxG03832 Subject: Re: spey rod In a message dated 7/26/0 8:51:15 PM, cbogart@shentel.net writes: Well, It was getting pretty late. For you too I guess. the correct 85" dimension is .336 from conranch@ipeg.com Wed Jul 26 18:44:08 2000 e6QNi7G05349 Subject: Problem solved boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFF720.77DC3E80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFF720.77DC3E80 Hi Gang,I'm back. Found that some how I got into POSTPONE mode. I don't know how =but the problem is now solved.Am working on my planning forms and expect to be able to enjoy the =building of my first bamboo soon. Thanks to two very special guys that =have and are putting up with this old cabinet maker. Tony Spezio from =down in AR and Dell Coppock, my neighbor here in WA.Off next week to Livingston MT for the FFF convention. As I am a =sustaining member and will have booth 14, I extend the invitation for = Dennis Conrad CONRANCH HACKLEShttp://members.tripod.com/CONRANCH/ new site ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFF720.77DC3E80 Hi Gang,I'm back. Found that some how I got into POSTPONE mode. I don't = but the problem is now solved.Am working on my planning forms and expect to be able to enjoy the = of my first bamboo soon. Thanks to two very special guys that have and = putting up with this old cabinet maker. Tony Spezio from down in AR and = Coppock, my neighbor here in WA.Off next week to Livingston MT for the FFF convention. As I am a = member and will have booth 14, I extend the invitation for any and all = that get there to drop by and chat a bit. Dennis Conradconranch@ipeg.com http://members.tripod.com/CO= ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFF720.77DC3E80-- from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Wed Jul 26 18:53:24 2000 e6QNrMG05623 e6QNrLZ97618;Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:53:21 -0400 Subject: Re: "THAT" so-called sage rod movie Bob Milward showed the complete video one evening at Corbett Lake, and hascopies available for a nominal fee. The piece on Sage was part of programin a series that was produced for Canadian public television, and Sage tookadvantage of the opportunity to promote their product. The comparisonsSagemade between their rods and bamboo rods were probably made because thesegment on Sage rods immediately followed a segment profiling severalbamboorodmakers. However, in at least one respect Sage did not comparefavorably;nobody in the Sage segment seemed to be enjoying themselves. -- Robert Kope-----Original Message----- Subject: "THAT" so-called sage rod movie all, i communicated with dave low at sage rod companyabout the sage movie that got us fired up over theweekend. he said that a canadian company made themovie for television and they had nothing to do withit. they shot a few minutes at the factory. theyhave not seen the movie and were trying to get hold ofa copy. thought everyone would like to know.timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jul 26 19:57:01 2000 e6R0uxG06847 Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:56:56 -0400 Subject: Re: spey rod Tom You are right - typo on my part. The ferrule sizes for this rodare 24 and 15 - I used a 23 but 24 would be better. I also used a truncated would be too much metal in my opinion. Also I used Two strippers on this rod. Chris On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:53:18 EDT, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/26/0 8:51:15 PM, cbogart@shentel.net writes: Well, It was getting pretty late. For you too I guess. the correct 85" dimension is .336 from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Wed Jul 26 23:32:05 2000 e6R4W4G10863 Subject: First Lawn Cast I got the chance to lawn cast my first rod today. It was amazinglylight, and took nothing to get 50-60 feet of 4DT line out. Nice tightloops as well. I suspect that it will be a blast to catch my first fishon it. Thanks again to Tony Spezio for all the help in building the Sir D 7' 2pc. 4#. I love it. Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jul 27 01:12:57 2000 e6R6CtG12674 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Organization: vet OK Stuart, here we go Halve your culm pretty much as usual, and knock out the internodal dams. Ifyou are in the habit of filing the nodes at this point, go ahead.Personally, I find it easier and tidier to do that when the strips are dowmto 1/2" or so, as I seem to cause less collateral damage to the cane oneither side of the node that way. Mount the half culm in a wood vice with the curved, convex, enamelled sidefacing upward. Mount it in such a way that there are only about 6- 10"protruding from the vice toward you. Do not overtighten the vice - you wantit just firm enough to stop slippage of the culm toward you, and to preventrotation in the vice while you are working on the job. Do not overtighten tothe point where you crack or even stress the culm. Take your preferred weapon ( you may very well call it a "froe" but I callit a bloody old broken butcher's knife which I have ground down to a sort ofvery flat double edged chisel sort of thingy ) and a mallet. Very carefully measure the midpoint ( or the 1/3 point or whatever youchoose, but I think it's easier to halve it; but I did both, and both workedwell ) and start the split, making certain that it's vertical, by tappingthe splitting tool along about 6" or so. At this point, at the risk ofoverstating the obvious, your split will be stopped about 2" to 6" short ofwhere the culm is secured in the vice. Put down the splitting thingy, and don your leather gloves, which willprevent slippage, cuttage, and bleedage, and swearage! Grasp one piece of the cane in each hand, and gently but firmly pull themapart from one another. Keep it all level, and try to keep an equal pull oneither hand. When the split gets down there to the vice, loosen the vice andpull the culm out another foot or so, re-tighten, and repeat the split bypulling the bits apart again. Don't rush. And so on and so on , "walking" the split down to the vice each time untilyou are at the end of the piece, at which time you have 2 pieces, and youcan start again, this time with much greater confidence. Now the point that was made by Richard and Bob in their descriptions is thatthere is a little bit of magic in this business, and it's this - WHEN ( NOT"IF", YOU'LL NOTICE ) THE SPLIT STARTS TO WANDER TO ONE SIDE, you canmostlycorrect it, and the way you do it is this : hold the side toward which thesplit is "walking" ( which will, of course, be the narrower of the 2 stripsat this stage ) firmly with your gloved hand, and apply firm pullingpressure on it ALONG ITS LONG AXIS. That is, you don't pull it away to theside as you would in normal splitting. You just hold it, I guess, in itsnatural position, AND YOU PULL ONLY THE THICKER PIECE TO THE SIDE TOCONTINUE THE SPLIT. You will find that the split walks back to the middle,at which stage you go back to bilateral pulling and thus continue splitting. I found that somewhere along the route I lost one strip which seemed totaper out to nothing; and I had a couple of thinnish ones, but usable. Ithink that the unavoidable loss was that the original check split, as wellas the halving split, may not have followed the natural planes of cleavageof the cane as well as the subsequent hand splits. I think that covers most things that were in the originals. Bob, I thinkdoesn't use the vice, but straddles the culm like a hobby horse whilesplitting; and one of them was adamant that he only ever halved the pieces,never thirds. I found the vice to be a nice stabilising point, and didn'thave any difficulty in "thirding", but of course there is no guarantee thatthe next one I do will be as easy as this one was. I think that, with alittle foresight you could split around leaf nodes, wormholes and otherabominations in the cane, but have not as yet had to try to do that. I don't know if you can make sense out of that. Sorry to the members of thelist for the length of the note, but there seems to have been some interest,and for some reason ( my fault, I guess ), the attachments don't seem to begetting through. Go for it Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au"It's a funny old world. A man's lucky to get out of it alive."W.C.Fields----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Sorry to say, I have the same problem with the archives. I did not getyourattachment and was very disapointed. Please try again. I would love tohereyour technique. I waste alot of cane. The only difference is I can geta12" culm for $20 US. I know that makes you mad. stuart from esavage@parkerduryee.com Thu Jul 27 04:22:36 2000 e6R9MZG15126 Subject: Gentlemen and Gentle Ladies: I've been eavesdropping on your discussions now for a couple of months andhave both enjoyed it and gained a wealth of information. I signed onprimarily because I have a few old bamboo rods I need to try to refurbish,and being a lawyer living in an apartment in New York City, I have neitherthe time (it's now 5:30 A.M. and I am still in the office) nor the space toundertake a full rod building project. Having already been the beneficiaryof a tremendous amount of information from all of you, I'd like to pass backto you a small dividend as a small thank you (though I suspect many, if notmost, of you already are aware of the information I am about to pass on). I have stumbled on two other websites that may be of particular interest tomany of you. The first, http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ ,has a wealth on information onrod building and repair and a cane archive that may be helpful to you. The second,http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/bamboo.htm ,which is the website of a Thomas Penrose, has some very good pictures anddescriptions of various of the procedures in building a bamboo fly rod. Good night, all, and tight lines and pleasant dreams, Ed Savage [esavage@parkerduryee.com] from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jul 27 06:08:39 2000 e6RB8bG16538 Subject: Snow ??? Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFF80D.D646F120" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFF80D.D646F120 Bradley - Yes, it's a funny old climate. I come from the North of Australia =originally, and find it bewildering. A couple of years ago, fishing at =the Great Lake, we had 18" of snow two weeks before Christmas, and =visibility was down to 150 feet or so on the water. That, of course, is =the height of summer. We have winter snow in the highlands, of course, and more rarely brief =flurries down here in the cities. Our fishing season opens on this Saturday. Whoopee! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky to get out of it alive."W.C.Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFF80D.D646F120 Bradley - Yes, it's a funny old climate. I come = North of Australia originally, and find it bewildering. A couple of = fishing at the Great Lake, we had 18" of snow two weeks before = visibility was down to 150 feet or so on the water. That, of course, is = height of summer. We have winter snow in the highlands, = and more rarely brief flurries down here in the cities. Saturday. Whoopee! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.=au "It's a funny old world. A man's = out of it alive."W.C.Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFF80D.D646F120-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 27 07:38:24 2000 e6RCcNG17808 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:37:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Great job Peter,and well received ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob OK Stuart, here we go Halve your culm pretty much as usual, and knock out the internodal dams.Ifyou are in the habit of filing the nodes at this point, go ahead.Personally, I find it easier and tidier to do that when the strips aredowmto 1/2" or so, as I seem to cause less collateral damage to the cane oneither side of the node that way. Mount the half culm in a wood vice with the curved, convex, enamelled sidefacing upward. Mount it in such a way that there are only about 6- 10"protruding from the vice toward you. Do not overtighten the vice - youwantit just firm enough to stop slippage of the culm toward you, and topreventrotation in the vice while you are working on the job. Do not overtightentothe point where you crack or even stress the culm. Take your preferred weapon ( you may very well call it a "froe" but I callit a bloody old broken butcher's knife which I have ground down to a sortofvery flat double edged chisel sort of thingy ) and a mallet. Very carefully measure the midpoint ( or the 1/3 point or whatever youchoose, but I think it's easier to halve it; but I did both, and bothworkedwell ) and start the split, making certain that it's vertical, by tappingthe splitting tool along about 6" or so. At this point, at the risk ofoverstating the obvious, your split will be stopped about 2" to 6" shortofwhere the culm is secured in the vice. Put down the splitting thingy, and don your leather gloves, which willprevent slippage, cuttage, and bleedage, and swearage! Grasp one piece of the cane in each hand, and gently but firmly pull themapart from one another. Keep it all level, and try to keep an equal pulloneither hand. When the split gets down there to the vice, loosen the viceandpull the culm out another foot or so, re-tighten, and repeat the split bypulling the bits apart again. Don't rush. And so on and so on , "walking" the split down to the vice each time untilyou are at the end of the piece, at which time you have 2 pieces, and youcan start again, this time with much greater confidence. Now the point that was made by Richard and Bob in their descriptions isthatthere is a little bit of magic in this business, and it's this - WHEN (NOT"IF", YOU'LL NOTICE ) THE SPLIT STARTS TO WANDER TO ONE SIDE, you canmostlycorrect it, and the way you do it is this : hold the side toward which thesplit is "walking" ( which will, of course, be the narrower of the 2stripsat this stage ) firmly with your gloved hand, and apply firm pullingpressure on it ALONG ITS LONG AXIS. That is, you don't pull it away to theside as you would in normal splitting. You just hold it, I guess, in itsnatural position, AND YOU PULL ONLY THE THICKER PIECE TO THE SIDE TOCONTINUE THE SPLIT. You will find that the split walks back to the middle,at which stage you go back to bilateral pulling and thus continuesplitting. I found that somewhere along the route I lost one strip which seemed totaper out to nothing; and I had a couple of thinnish ones, but usable. Ithink that the unavoidable loss was that the original check split, as wellas the halving split, may not have followed the natural planes of cleavageof the cane as well as the subsequent hand splits. I think that covers most things that were in the originals. Bob, I thinkdoesn't use the vice, but straddles the culm like a hobby horse whilesplitting; and one of them was adamant that he only ever halved thepieces,never thirds. I found the vice to be a nice stabilising point, and didn'thave any difficulty in "thirding", but of course there is no guaranteethatthe next one I do will be as easy as this one was. I think that, with alittle foresight you could split around leaf nodes, wormholes and otherabominations in the cane, but have not as yet had to try to do that. I don't know if you can make sense out of that. Sorry to the members ofthelist for the length of the note, but there seems to have been someinterest,and for some reason ( my fault, I guess ), the attachments don't seem tobegetting through. Go for it Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au"It's a funny old world. A man's lucky to get out of it alive."W.C.Fields----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:43 AMSubject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Sorry to say, I have the same problem with the archives. I did not getyourattachment and was very disapointed. Please try again. I would love tohereyour technique. I waste alot of cane. The only difference is I cangeta12" culm for $20 US. I know that makes you mad. stuart from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 27 07:50:57 2000 e6RCovG18100 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,After a lot of thought and procrastination I finally took theleap and set aside my Urac and picked up my tube of Titebond PU and gluedmytiny 2 wt rod up last night. The glue was a pleasure to work with. I decidedto hand wrap this rod because I wanted to make sure there were no hiccups.After binding I rolled and pulled each section and hung them to dry. Thismorning I awoke to 4 wonderfully straight dry foam covered strips. A littlework and the string came of clean and easy.I just now lightly scraped the foam from one tip with a razorblade. It came off like a dream. So far I love this glue. Thanks all foryour advice on this glue. I'm not completely sure it will replace my Uracbut it is a nice option.More to follow,Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 27 08:14:21 2000 e6RDEJG19005 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:13:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Your findings mirror my own with the PU ProBond from Elmer's. The proof willbe on the water, but it sure looks good so far. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,After a lot of thought and procrastination I finally took theleap and set aside my Urac and picked up my tube of Titebond PU and gluedmytiny 2 wt rod up last night. The glue was a pleasure to work with. Idecidedto hand wrap this rod because I wanted to make sure there were nohiccups.After binding I rolled and pulled each section and hung them to dry. Thismorning I awoke to 4 wonderfully straight dry foam covered strips. Alittlework and the string came of clean and easy.I just now lightly scraped the foam from one tip with a razorblade. It came off like a dream. So far I love this glue. Thanks all foryour advice on this glue. I'm not completely sure it will replace my Uracbut it is a nice option.More to follow,Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering if youshould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PU glue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be very thick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards would be agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type (TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jul 27 09:21:08 2000 e6REL7G21183 Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:21:02 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: First Lawn Cast "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote: I got the chance to lawn cast my first rod today. It was amazinglylight, and took nothing to get 50-60 feet of 4DT line out. Nice tightloops as well. I suspect that it will be a blast to catch my first fishon it. Thanks again to Tony Spezio for all the help in building the Sir D 7' 2pc. 4#. I love it. Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO Congratulations, Kevin! Be sure you bring it with you to the Conclaveand/or to SRG 2000. I'll be at both, and would love to see your pride andjoy! No other rod you build (and there will be more, right?) will ever seemas special to you. I hope the first fish you catch with the rod is worthyof all the respect in the world. Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jul 27 09:30:11 2000 e6REUAG21682 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob petermckean wrote: Halve your culm pretty much as usual, and knock out the internodal dams... Now the point that was made by Richard and Bob in their descriptions is... Just a chance to advertise a little by reminding y'all that Bob will demo hissplitting techniques at our Southern Rodmakers Gathering.... I know it's a little far, Peter, but you only live once.... Harry from tklein@amgen.com Thu Jul 27 13:22:21 2000 e6RIMKG29271 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Splitting - Richard and Bob I just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in on the matter. I've never had much trouble splitting for some reason. By the end of my veryfirst sacrificial culm, I was able to get six or seven very nice 1/8" strips(half culm, so they were six feet long), that didn't vary more than 1/16"or so the entire length. The keys to splitting for me are: 1. Cut the culm to length rather than splitting the whole or even half culm- I always split strips to the length required for the job. I then mark theremainder of the culm with the length and number of pieces of the rod I'mmaking (e.g. 7' - two piece), and save it. I can use the remainder for areplacement strip if needed, or I save time the next time I need to make a 7foot 2 piece rod because I don't have to re-evaluate my culms to find onethat will work. 2. Make sure your splitting tool is at the proper angle - If the edge ofyou're splitting tool isn't set so that it would pass through the center ofthe culm diameter (I hope that makes sense), your strip will be harder tosplit into smaller strips. Before I start splitting, I mark the end of eachsection with a dozen or more reference lines that pass through the center ofthe culm diameter. These aren't marked to the size of the strip I want tomake, they're just references that I can use to make sure the tool is at theproper angle to the strip. 3. Split into halves - this is much easier to control than thirds. 4. Work slowly and carefully - starting with good strips eliminates the needto "true up" prior to roughing and making sure they're the right size speedsup roughing. all had the situation where a split on a very dry culm will shoot off downthe culm with the slightest movement of the splitting tool. I think that thereason holding the strip in a vise, as Peter mentions, works so well becauseit minimizes the distance the split can travel. I usually put my splittingtool in the vise and just squeeze the strip a few inches beyond the knifeedge to limit how far the split can travel. It's then just a matter ofwiggling the strip lightly up and down until I get an inch or so of split,squeeze a little further down, & repeat. Finally, PRACTICE! My sacrificial culm (actually, it was 2 culms), were justthat. I torched them to varying degrees from light to charcoal, cut them,split them, pressed, straightened, and ruined many nodes, planed (down to assmall as my wooden forms would allow), broke and twisted strips, gluedpieces together, heated, soaked, and stressed those pieces to see exactlywhat my glue could stand. About the only thing I didn't try to do with itwas make a rod out of it! I know it's tempting for someone new to rodmaking to start right off tryingto make a usable rod, but I think the time I spent playing around with thesesacrificial culms was the single smartest thing I've ever done in rodmaking.I gained a whole lot of experience by making mistakes on something I wasn'tintimately involved in. I've avoided (to this point, knock on wood) thefrustration of breaking a tip strip, or over-stressing a node duringstraightening because I intentionally over-stressed tips and nodes to seeexactly how far I could go WITHOUT breaking them. If you haven't sacrificed a culm in the name of experience yet, I'd highlyrecommend it. (OK, it was more like 25 cents than 2 cents...) ---Tim from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Jul 27 13:24:29 2000 e6RIOTG29383 LAA24614 Subject: Where to get 3/4" cold-rolled steel? Hi all, I decided that I'd like to construct my very own planing form. I wasreluctant to try at first, since I live in an apartment in Queens, New Yorkand thought it just might be a bit too much. After reading what many of youhad written on the subject, I decided that I would never be able to kickmyself in the arse hard enough after I bought a set and realized I couldhave made my own. So, I'll just do any noisy parts during the day( althoughat night drilling and filing would blend in rather nicely with the sirensand car alarms :)). Anyway, I cannot find a source for Cold-rolled steel 3/4" * 3/4". There areseveral steel and metals distributors who will not bother with what I want,not even scrap. If anyone lives in the tri-state area and has a source, I'dbe glad to take a ride. Thanks very much indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jul 27 14:14:07 2000 e6RJE6G00835 12:31:45 PDT Subject: McKean's Splitting Implement Peter, " bloody old broken butcher's knife which I have ground down to a sort ofvery flat double edged chisel sort of thingy" Upgrade the name to "McKean's Splitting Implement". Acid etch yoursignature into the blade and provide a cocobola handle with a tungsten carbide cap and bright brass trim. $49.95 instructions included. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 27 14:29:59 2000 e6RJTwG01469 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:24:42 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: McKean's Splitting Implement LOL, Chris, Mine is an "Old Hickory" Butcher Knife with about 1/3rd cut offof it and ground round on the end. That was my first "froe". I bought anice $40 froe one time several years ago, and I think I ended up using it topry apart frozen steaks... my Old Hickory, by the way, came with a nice setof Hickory Handles on it, all for only about $3. Oh, and I use an OldHickory Paring Knife with the same hi-tech modifications to start splits onmy narrow strips! Couldn't find anything Old Hickory made to make a latheout of tho! :^) Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: McKean's Splitting Implement Peter, " bloody old broken butcher's knife which I have ground down to a sort ofvery flat double edged chisel sort of thingy" Upgrade the name to "McKean's Splitting Implement". Acid etch yoursignatureinto the blade and provide a cocobola handle with a tungsten carbide capandbright brass trim. $49.95 instructions included. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from yves@hwy97.net Thu Jul 27 14:32:07 2000 e6RJW6G01604 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.2.4) with SMTP id ;Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:32:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Peter, that's the most lucid description of splitting that I've seen.Ruining cane is what drove me to nodeless construction (which I'll probablystay with anyway.) But thanks, Dave At 04:05 PM 7/27/00 +1000, petermckean wrote:OK Stuart, here we go Halve your culm pretty much as usual, and knock out the internodal dams. Ifyou are in the habit of filing the nodes at this point, go ahead.Personally, I find it easier and tidier to do that when the strips are dowmto 1/2" or so, as I seem to cause less collateral damage to the cane oneither side of the node that way. Mount the half culm in a wood vice with the curved, convex, enamelled sidefacing upward. Mount it in such a way that there are only about 6- 10"protruding from the vice toward you. Do not overtighten the vice - you wantit just firm enough to stop slippage of the culm toward you, and to preventrotation in the vice while you are working on the job. Do not overtighten tothe point where you crack or even stress the culm. Take your preferred weapon ( you may very well call it a "froe" but I callit a bloody old broken butcher's knife which I have ground down to a sort ofvery flat double edged chisel sort of thingy ) and a mallet. Very carefully measure the midpoint ( or the 1/3 point or whatever youchoose, but I think it's easier to halve it; but I did both, and both workedwell ) and start the split, making certain that it's vertical, by tappingthe splitting tool along about 6" or so. At this point, at the risk ofoverstating the obvious, your split will be stopped about 2" to 6" short ofwhere the culm is secured in the vice. Put down the splitting thingy, and don your leather gloves, which willprevent slippage, cuttage, and bleedage, and swearage! Grasp one piece of the cane in each hand, and gently but firmly pull themapart from one another. Keep it all level, and try to keep an equal pull oneither hand. When the split gets down there to the vice, loosen the vice andpull the culm out another foot or so, re-tighten, and repeat the split bypulling the bits apart again. Don't rush. And so on and so on , "walking" the split down to the vice each time untilyou are at the end of the piece, at which time you have 2 pieces, and youcan start again, this time with much greater confidence. Now the point that was made by Richard and Bob in their descriptions isthatthere is a little bit of magic in this business, and it's this - WHEN ( NOT"IF", YOU'LL NOTICE ) THE SPLIT STARTS TO WANDER TO ONE SIDE, you canmostlycorrect it, and the way you do it is this : hold the side toward which thesplit is "walking" ( which will, of course, be the narrower of the 2 stripsat this stage ) firmly with your gloved hand, and apply firm pullingpressure on it ALONG ITS LONG AXIS. That is, you don't pull it away to theside as you would in normal splitting. You just hold it, I guess, in itsnatural position, AND YOU PULL ONLY THE THICKER PIECE TO THE SIDE TOCONTINUE THE SPLIT. You will find that the split walks back to the middle,at which stage you go back to bilateral pulling and thus continue splitting. I found that somewhere along the route I lost one strip which seemed totaper out to nothing; and I had a couple of thinnish ones, but usable. Ithink that the unavoidable loss was that the original check split, as wellas the halving split, may not have followed the natural planes of cleavageof the cane as well as the subsequent hand splits. I think that covers most things that were in the originals. Bob, I thinkdoesn't use the vice, but straddles the culm like a hobby horse whilesplitting; and one of them was adamant that he only ever halved the pieces,never thirds. I found the vice to be a nice stabilising point, and didn'thave any difficulty in "thirding", but of course there is no guarantee thatthe next one I do will be as easy as this one was. I think that, with alittle foresight you could split around leaf nodes, wormholes and otherabominations in the cane, but have not as yet had to try to do that. I don't know if you can make sense out of that. Sorry to the members ofthelist for the length of the note, but there seems to have been someinterest,and for some reason ( my fault, I guess ), the attachments don't seem tobegetting through. Go for it Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au"It's a funny old world. A man's lucky to get out of it alive."W.C.Fields----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:43 AMSubject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Sorry to say, I have the same problem with the archives. I did not getyourattachment and was very disapointed. Please try again. I would love tohereyour technique. I waste alot of cane. The only difference is I can geta12" culm for $20 US. I know that makes you mad. stuart from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Jul 27 14:33:19 2000 e6RJXIG01714 MAA18363 Subject: Thanks Bob, Ian. On the subject of obtaining the CRS, I've called steel and metalsdistributors, scrappers, and any machine shops in my area. Nothing doing.In many cases I've gotten the cold shoulder. Call me naive, but I thoughtthis would not be so difficult. I don't have Wayne's book; I haven't been able to find the spiral edition.A copy of Jack Howell's book is on the way, however. I will certainly use the hand drill and doweling jig since I own a handdrill and not a drill press. I'd rather put that money toward quality toolsthat I'll need for building rods. Thanks again, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Thu Jul 27 17:00:53 2000 e6RM0qG08826 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim, I enjoyed your description of splitting and ruining some cane at theexpense of experience.However, I have one question. How do you go about staggering nodes foryour rod layout, if you have already cut the culms to length beforesplitting? Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 27 17:22:42 2000 e6RMMfG09708 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:17:28 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Kevin,Measure your internodal distance and allow enough to accomodate yourstagger (2X2, 3X3, Chevy 6, whatever...) . For instance, if you use a 3x3stagger, then you'll have to add half the distance between the nodes to yourcut length in order for your strips to be long enough to get your rod lengthwhen your stagger is laid out. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim, I enjoyed your description of splitting and ruining some cane at theexpense of experience.However, I have one question. How do you go about staggering nodes foryour rod layout, if you have already cut the culms to length beforesplitting? Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Jul 27 17:33:48 2000 e6RMXlG10014 15:33:50 PDT Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob i'm going to say this. i think everyone will agree. just like alot of things, after you do a few a lightcomes on, it gets easier and then you find you canreally exert some control over this unruley big dirtystick. but if you didn't have any waste you wouldhave to buy sticks to stir your varnish. timothy --- "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote:Tim, I enjoyed your description of splitting and ruiningsome cane at theexpense of experience.However, I have one question. How do you go aboutstaggering nodes foryour rod layout, if you have already cut the culmsto length beforesplitting? Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jul 27 17:41:47 2000 e6RMfkG10300 Subject: RE: Using Titebond PU glue Just wanted you to know I'm very interested in your experiences and hopeyou'll keep reporting once you get these rods on the water. I bet a lot ofother people are thinking of using PUs, too, so thanks very much! Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Your findings mirror my own with the PU ProBond from Elmer's. The proofwillbe on the water, but it sure looks good so far. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Using Titebond PU glue Friends,After a lot of thought and procrastination I finally tooktheleap and set aside my Urac and picked up my tube of Titebond PU andgluedmytiny 2 wt rod up last night. The glue was a pleasure to work with. Idecidedto hand wrap this rod because I wanted to make sure there were nohiccups.After binding I rolled and pulled each section and hung them to dry.Thismorning I awoke to 4 wonderfully straight dry foam covered strips. Alittlework and the string came of clean and easy.I just now lightly scraped the foam from one tip with arazorblade. It came off like a dream. So far I love this glue. Thanks allforyour advice on this glue. I'm not completely sure it will replace myUracbut it is a nice option.More to follow,Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Friends,I need some advice on using PU glues. I was wondering ifyoushould lightly mist the strips just before gluing with Titebond PUglue?Should it be thinned and if so with what?? It appears to be verythick.Also I was wondering if heat setting afterwards wouldbe agood idea? Anyone with any tips or experience with this type(TitebondPU) would be appreciated!TIA,Shawn from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 27 17:46:24 2000 e6RMkNG10656 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Off Topic -- Letort Update boundary="------------E76C05EB50BBFD197FC26639" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- E76C05EB50BBFD197FC26639 Here is an update on the Letort / Home Depot situation. The citizenshave file appeals -- with the Borough and in the courts -- to overturnthe rezoning. There appear to be major concerns with the PA Dept. ofEnvironmental Protection. We do not expect any action before the Carlisle Borough beforeSeptember. Lots of hurdles yet to cross. Many thanks to Bob Maulucci for his contribution to the cause -- a superrod for the raffle. I can vouch for myself - a proclaimed 'dummy' (but from a very knowledgeable person as well) - that this was a job verywell done. Special thanks to Bob for his help. F. --Fred Bohls3519 Ada Drive Mechanicsburg,PA 17055-2213 (717) 732-5050 (717) 732-2448 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!! from steve@hamiltonrods.com Thu Jul 27 17:48:48 2000 e6RMmlG10801 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Green River Trip Report e6RMmmG10802 Just got back from a two week trip to Utah. I did most of my fishing with a(don't hold it against me) 9' graphite rod, but I did christen my latest bamboocreation--a darkly flamed 6'8" FE Thomas 3wt--on the Green River. I fishedwith that rod for about an hour and caught 5-6 enormous brown trout usinga size 12 Orange Stimulator. The friend I went with--an avid, longtime flyfisherman and Sage lover--finally asked to borrow the rod which I gladlyhanded over. He immediately caught a couple more 18" whoppers as Iwatched on in delight. The rod bent all the way to the handle but was still ableto land the fish-- pretty amazing considering how delicate the tips are on thattaper. I took no pictures, but catching huge trout after huge trout with a dry flyusing a rod made with my own hands is an experience I'll never forget. Thanks again to everyone for their advice over these last 10 months. --Steve from tklein@amgen.com Thu Jul 27 17:54:45 2000 e6RMsiG11139 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Splitting - Richard and Bob Yeah, what Bob said... I use a 3x3 stagger so I add 1/2 the nodal distance to my section length,plus a little extra for working room. The only problem I have now is that since I've switched to a Morganhandmill, I'm having to re-evaluate the old cut sections to see which rodsthey'll work with! I've got one culm that was originally cut for a 6 foot 2piece rod that doesn't have enough extra to cover the material needed formounting to the handmill. (I've considered using it to make up a couple of the Joan Wulff castingtrainer type rods... Unless anyone has a taper for a 5' 6" 2 piece layingaround)---Tim ----------From: Bob Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Kevin,Measure your internodal distance and allow enough to accomodate yourstagger (2X2, 3X3, Chevy 6, whatever...) . For instance, if you use a 3x3stagger, then you'll have to add half the distance between the nodes toyourcut length in order for your strips to be long enough to get your rodlengthwhen your stagger is laid out. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Kevin M. Buchanan Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim, I enjoyed your description of splitting and ruining some cane at theexpense of experience.However, I have one question. How do you go about staggering nodes foryour rod layout, if you have already cut the culms to length beforesplitting? Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 27 18:01:28 2000 e6RN1QG11435 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:00:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Off Topic -- Letort Update This is all Greek to me ! Are we to assume this is action to stop thepollution, or messing with a good trout stream ???? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Off Topic -- Letort Update Here is an update on the Letort / Home Depot situation. The citizenshave file appeals -- with the Borough and in the courts -- to overturnthe rezoning. There appear to be major concerns with the PA Dept. ofEnvironmental Protection. We do not expect any action before the Carlisle Borough beforeSeptember. Lots of hurdles yet to cross. Many thanks to Bob Maulucci for his contribution to the cause -- a superrod for the raffle. I can vouch for myself - a proclaimed 'dummy' (but from a very knowledgeable person as well) - that this was a job verywell done. Special thanks to Bob for his help. F. --Fred Bohls3519 Ada Drive Mechanicsburg,PA 17055-2213 (717) 732-5050 (717) 732-2448 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!! from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Jul 27 18:13:25 2000 e6RNDOG11888 QAA24020 Subject: No Luck finding CRS Well, I spent several hours today calling anyone having anything to do withmetals in my are-N.Y.C. and have had no luck. I found a scrap metalrecycler in Jersey who advertises "no order too small." I e-mailed myrequest after hours, so I won't know anything until tomorrow. I suspect it will be costly to ship the sections. Thank you all for your assistance with this. Wow, I thought I'd surely beable to walk into a place and look at all the steel and pick out a length.Oh well. Mind you I was all set to buy a Munro "Hex" Master Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from rvenneri@ulster.net Thu Jul 27 19:06:32 2000 e6S06VG13237 (172.16.0.179) Organization: Venneri's Subject: Re: No Luck finding CRS Frank Olivieri wrote: Well, I spent several hours today calling anyone having anything to do withmetals in my are-N.Y.C. and have had no luck. I found a scrap metalrecycler in Jersey who advertises "no order too small." I e-mailed myrequest after hours, so I won't know anything until tomorrow. I suspect it will be costly to ship the sections. Thank you all for your assistance with this. Wow, I thought I'd surely beable to walk into a place and look at all the steel and pick out a length.Oh well. Mind you I was all set to buy a Munro "Hex" Master Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.Frank,I have some in stock contact me off list and I will find out theshipping. I live in Saugerties NY 100 mi from nyc if yoi want to pick itup. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RDSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jul 27 19:10:54 2000 e6S0AsG13440 (SMTPD32-6.03) id A0ACAE0138; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:15:40 -0400 Subject: Contest Winner for July The winner of the July contest was Bill Campbell of Warrenville, IL. (Inoted afterwards that he also entered twice, a practice that was notprohibited, and is darn clever.) I'll send the line right along, Bill. The correct answer was ... Herbert Hoover. The former U.S. Presidentwrote the work "Fishing For Fun and to Wash Your Soul", pub 1963 byRandom House. --Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 27 19:33:55 2000 e6S0XtG13899 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:28:41 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Green River Trip Report Congrats, Steve,You are now officially addicted!!!!! Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Green River Trip Report Just got back from a two week trip to Utah. I did most of my fishing with a(don't hold it against me) 9' graphite rod, but I did christen my latestbamboo creation--a darkly flamed 6'8" FE Thomas 3wt--on the Green River. Ifished with that rod for about an hour and caught 5-6 enormous brown troutusing a size 12 Orange Stimulator. The friend I went with--an avid, longtimefly fisherman and Sage lover--finally asked to borrow the rod which I gladlyhanded over. He immediately caught a couple more 18" whoppers as Iwatchedon in delight. The rod bent all the way to the handle but was still able toland the fish--pretty amazing considering how delicate the tips are on thattaper. I took no pictures, but catching huge trout after huge trout with a dry flyusing a rod made with my own hands is an experience I'll never forget. Thanks again to everyone for their advice over these last 10 months. --Steve from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 27 19:36:07 2000 e6S0a6G14034 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:30:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim,I have a 5'6" taper for ya... want it in 2, 3 or 4 wt? A dandy littlerod, too. I have one here that is going to Livingston with me, that is a4wt and casts really nice. Let me know which weight and I'll send it toyou. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Splitting - Richard and Bob Yeah, what Bob said... I use a 3x3 stagger so I add 1/2 the nodal distance to my section length,plus a little extra for working room. The only problem I have now is that since I've switched to a Morganhandmill, I'm having to re-evaluate the old cut sections to see which rodsthey'll work with! I've got one culm that was originally cut for a 6 foot 2piece rod that doesn't have enough extra to cover the material needed formounting to the handmill. (I've considered using it to make up a couple of the Joan Wulff castingtrainer type rods... Unless anyone has a taper for a 5' 6" 2 piece layingaround)---Tim ----------From: Bob Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Kevin,Measure your internodal distance and allow enough to accomodate yourstagger (2X2, 3X3, Chevy 6, whatever...) . For instance, if you use a3x3stagger, then you'll have to add half the distance between the nodes toyourcut length in order for your strips to be long enough to get your rodlengthwhen your stagger is laid out. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Kevin M. Buchanan Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim, I enjoyed your description of splitting and ruining some cane at theexpense of experience.However, I have one question. How do you go about staggering nodes foryour rod layout, if you have already cut the culms to length beforesplitting? Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 27 19:53:54 2000 e6S0roG14538 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:52:44 -0500 Subject: Re: No Luck finding CRS Try McMaster-Carr, as they have most anything. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: No Luck finding CRS Well, I spent several hours today calling anyone having anything to dowithmetals in my are-N.Y.C. and have had no luck. I found a scrap metalrecycler in Jersey who advertises "no order too small." I e-mailed myrequest after hours, so I won't know anything until tomorrow. I suspect it will be costly to ship the sections. Thank you all for your assistance with this. Wow, I thought I'd surely beable to walk into a place and look at all the steel and pick out a length.Oh well. Mind you I was all set to buy a Munro "Hex" Master Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from tonkin@xtn.net Thu Jul 27 20:01:17 2000 e6S11GG14845 Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:01:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Will you 5'6" taper work in a 3 pc configuration? Bob Nunley wrote: Tim,I have a 5'6" taper for ya... want it in 2, 3 or 4 wt? A dandy littlerod, too. I have one here that is going to Livingston with me, that is a4wt and casts really nice. Let me know which weight and I'll send it toyou. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Klein, Tim Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:49 PMSubject: RE: Splitting - Richard and Bob Yeah, what Bob said... I use a 3x3 stagger so I add 1/2 the nodal distance to my section length,plus a little extra for working room. The only problem I have now is that since I've switched to a Morganhandmill, I'm having to re-evaluate the old cut sections to see which rodsthey'll work with! I've got one culm that was originally cut for a 6 foot 2piece rod that doesn't have enough extra to cover the material neededformounting to the handmill. (I've considered using it to make up a couple of the Joan Wulff castingtrainer type rods... Unless anyone has a taper for a 5' 6" 2 piece layingaround)---Tim ----------From: Bob Nunley[SMTP:caneman@clnk.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Kevin,Measure your internodal distance and allow enough to accomodateyourstagger (2X2, 3X3, Chevy 6, whatever...) . For instance, if you use a3x3stagger, then you'll have to add half the distance between the nodes toyourcut length in order for your strips to be long enough to get your rodlengthwhen your stagger is laid out. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Kevin M. Buchanan Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim, I enjoyed your description of splitting and ruining some cane at theexpense of experience.However, I have one question. How do you go about staggering nodesforyour rod layout, if you have already cut the culms to length beforesplitting? Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO -- -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ from timklein@uswest.net Thu Jul 27 21:22:26 2000 e6S2MPG17633 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob A 3 Piece? Heck, a 5' 6" rod with a tiptop, a reelseat, and two sets of ferrules isn'ta bamboo rod! It's a Nickel Silver rod with bamboo spacers! (sorry, I can't remember who I ripped that one off of. It might have beenGierach, but if it was someone here, I apologize) ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Will you 5'6" taper work in a 3 pc configuration? from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 27 21:30:18 2000 e6S2UHG18049 jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca(Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0- 66967U86000L86000S0V35)with ESMTP id ca; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 23:30:16 - 0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob And I thought that this 6'3" 2 wt was a feat as a 3 pc? Sounds like I mighthave a new challenge??Shawn Tim Klein wrote: A 3 Piece? Heck, a 5' 6" rod with a tiptop, a reelseat, and two sets of ferrules isn'ta bamboo rod! It's a Nickel Silver rod with bamboo spacers! (sorry, I can't remember who I ripped that one off of. It might have beenGierach, but if it was someone here, I apologize) ---Tim ----- Original Message -----From: tonkin Cc: ; Rod Makers List Serve Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:06 PMSubject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Will you 5'6" taper work in a 3 pc configuration? from leroyt@involved.com Thu Jul 27 21:47:40 2000 e6S2ldG18683 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:47:40 -0700 Subject: RE: Where to get 3/4" cold-rolled steel? Hi, Would a hardwood be easier you to find? You can use some of the toolsthat you already have, plane, drill, file, thread gauge and get the sameresults. Just a passing thought. If you have questions can help of list.Leroy.......... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:23 AM Subject: Where to get 3/4" cold-rolled steel? Hi all, I decided that I'd like to construct my very own planing form. I wasreluctant to try at first, since I live in an apartment inQueens, New Yorkand thought it just might be a bit too much. After reading whatmany of youhad written on the subject, I decided that I would never be able to kickmyself in the arse hard enough after I bought a set and realized I couldhave made my own. So, I'll just do any noisy parts during theday( althoughat night drilling and filing would blend in rather nicely with the sirensand car alarms :)). Anyway, I cannot find a source for Cold-rolled steel 3/4" * 3/4".There areseveral steel and metals distributors who will not bother withwhat I want,not even scrap. If anyone lives in the tri-state area and has asource, I'dbe glad to take a ride. Thanks very much indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jul 27 22:02:20 2000 e6S32JG19011 Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:02:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob "Klein, Tim" wrote: The only problem I have now is that since I've switched to a Morganhandmill, ... Unless anyone has a taper for a 5' 6" 2 piece laying around) Tim,If push comes to shove, just drag out the old fashioned planing forms...Works okay for me and a guy named Garrison. Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Jul 27 22:06:23 2000 e6S36MG19168 UAA26002 Subject: Found some CRS Hi everyone. Thanks again for all the help. :) Bob Venneri wrote that he had some CRS in stock. He's upstate from me aways, but it will be a nice drive for my wife and me. Of course, I'llcertainly save on some hefty shipping fees. I just printed up Penrose's text on making planing forms, which, is quitedetailed. I seldom come across instruction for doing anything that doesn'tleave you thinking about what you were supposed to do inbetween. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Jul 27 22:25:01 2000 e6S3OvG19684 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:23:51 -0500 Subject: N.S. Wire Anyone have a foot or so of .030" N.S. wire they'll sell me ? I just need topin 3 or 4 ferrules. Thanks, GMA from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Jul 27 22:46:51 2000 e6S3koG20525 UAA14799 Subject: Re: Channer I called several local machine shops. They either don't have any or theydon't want to take the time to fulfill my request. I cannot blame them.They've work to do and what I need is not worth their while. I called every steel and scrap company that I could find a number for.They, of course, won't bother with my small request. Thanks to some individuals on this listserve, I know that there are a fewmail order companies where I can get some CRS. It's expensive to purchase,and, considering the weight, expensive to ship. I believe I may have some from a kind individual on this listserve. Thanks again, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Jul 27 22:56:11 2000 e6S3uBG20850 Subject: Re: Green River Trip Report Steve,Next time on the Green, do as I started doing a couple of years ago, justbring the bamboo rods that you have made. This spring I fished up there fora week with my para 15 and 7 1/2' Cattanach 4/5-wt. Caught many manyfish,mostly on dries, and never a problem with a rod. It feels great to leave theplastic home.Steve Just got back from a two week trip to Utah. I did most of my fishing witha (don't hold it against me) 9' graphite rod, but I did christen my latestbamboo creation--a darkly flamed 6'8" FE Thomas 3wt--on the Green River. Ifished with that rod for about an hour and caught 5-6 enormous brown troutusing a size 12 Orange Stimulator. The friend I went with--an avid, longtimefly fisherman and Sage lover--finally asked to borrow the rod which I gladlyhanded over. He immediately caught a couple more 18" whoppers as Iwatchedon in delight. The rod bent all the way to the handle but was still able toland the fish--pretty amazing considering how delicate the tips are on thattaper. I took no pictures, but catching huge trout after huge trout with a dryfly using a rod made with my own hands is an experience I'll never forget. Thanks again to everyone for their advice over these last 10 months. --Steve from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jul 27 22:59:21 2000 e6S3xKG21032 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:54:05 -0500 Subject: 5'6" 4wt taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0100_01BFF81D.99383180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01BFF81D.99383180 Had many requests for this taper, so I just thought I'd just post it to =the list. For those that want it, here it is... for those that don't, =sorry for taking up the bandwidth.Note: The dimensions below are my form settings and not the overall =dimensions. Nothing is added for enamel or anything else on these, so =they are the accurate half diameters for this rod. Cut and pasted this =right out of my spreadsheet for tapers so it shouldn't have any mistakes =in it... If it does, then they're mistakes worth keeping, cause I've =built a lot of this model and it cast very nice and crisp. Rod is medium fast, very accurate even for me and for those of you that =have seen me cast, you know that is a feat in itself! :^). have fun =with it. Bob Model 564 Mountain CreekStation Form Set1 33 10 4715 5420 6325 7030 7835 8340 8845 9550 11255 12060 12565 125 ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01BFF81D.99383180 Had many requests for this taper, so I just thought I'd just post = right out of my spreadsheet for tapers so it shouldn't have any mistakes = it... If it does, then they're mistakes worth keeping, cause I've built = this model and it cast very nice and crisp. Rod is medium fast, very accurate even for me and for those of you = it. Bob Model 564 Mountain Creek 125 125 ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01BFF81D.99383180-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Jul 27 23:49:17 2000 e6S4nEG21919 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:30:15 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim,it was Gierach in "Fishing Bamboo". I just happened to bere-reading it last night.Stay luckyMike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob A 3 Piece? Heck, a 5' 6" rod with a tiptop, a reelseat, and two sets of ferrules isn'ta bamboo rod! It's a Nickel Silver rod with bamboo spacers! (sorry, I can't remember who I ripped that one off of. It might have beenGierach, but if it was someone here, I apologize) ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Will you 5'6" taper work in a 3 pc configuration? from timklein@uswest.net Fri Jul 28 01:01:40 2000 e6S61dG23064 (63.225.240.123) Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Actually Harry, I don't currently have a planing form! I'd always used wooden forms and had finally screwed mine up enough thatthey were giving me trouble. I decided to make some new ones and waswrestling with whether to make new wooden forms or bite the bullet and buyor make some metal ones. I'd heard about the Morgan mill, but I'd never actually seen one. It just sohappened that Tom put his new website up around this same time and it hassome really good pictures of the tool. I was very surprised by the design. You see, I'd made a roughing setup that was remarkably similar to thehandmill. It used two small plane blades set at a 60 degree angle and thebamboo strips sat on a wooden rest that looked almost exactly like theplastic "anvils" that Tom's device uses. My contraption was pretty rough andthe blades would sometimes slip out of alignment as I used it, but I wasalways a little surprised by how accurate and consistent the angles werewhen everything was sharp and freshly aligned. If you think about it, itmakes sense; it's much easier to align two knife edge tools to 60 degreesthan it is to make sure you've got a consistent 60 degree groove that's 4feet long! In addition, it's easy to cant your plane slightly to one side orthe other when you're roughing since the sole never gets down to the formsurface. I'd never really put much thought into somehow making this setup usable forfinal planing. Since I used two plane blades back to back, my contraptionwas always technically scraping rather than cutting and it resulted in apretty rough finish. I also couldn't imagine making my setup adjustable.(Tom's device is remarkably simple in this regard. It really makes me feelstupid that something like that never even entered my mind). I don't know exactly why, but I'd always imagined Tom's device as some sortof hand cranked cutting tool. I suppose it's because of the use of the term"mill" in the name (I always referred to my contraption as a double bladedscraper plane). When I saw the thing, I decided I couldn't live without it.So far, I have no regrets. (except maybe, that I kind of miss having a well used planing form lying onmy table. It added character and tradition to my work area that the hightech plastic and chrome of the handmill can't quite match) ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Tim,If push comes to shove, just drag out the old fashioned planingforms...Works okay for me and a guy named Garrison. from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Jul 28 09:48:37 2000 e6SEmbG02392 Jul 2000 10:48:23 -0400 Subject: Short rods Over the winter I made a one piece 5 ft. fly rod. I wanted to give it athorough evaluation and fish with it over a period of time. It is now half waythrough our fishing season - actually locally the season is year round, but thequality fishing in the Sierras goes from May to October - and I have used thelittle rod in every type of fishing that I regularly do. I can say withoutreservation that I really like it. I may be a little prejudiced because I made it,but on the other hand I can make any type of rod I want, so writing this offas a failed experiment wouldn't have bothered me in the least. I can cast 40feet with this rod, and there was two times when I couldn't reach where Iwanted to. Mending line is a problem, not that you can't mend, you just haveto get better at it with a short rod. In small brushy streams it really shines. Iget less than half of the hangups in branches and bushes, etc. And I havefour more feet of line out past the tip top loading the rod tha!!n a 9 foot rod at the same distance casting. If I could only own one bamboo rod an ultra short one wouldn't be it. But if Ihad two rods the second would definitely be a 5 or 6 footer. In fact I am justfinishing a 5' 9" 3piece to go backpacking with.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 28 10:04:39 2000 e6SF4cG03118 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:59:16 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Short rods Darryl,I guess you know, that I like the short rods above all others. Thelongest rod I make and sell is 8', the shortest a 4'9" one piece, and theone I generally fish is a 6 ft 4 wt. You're right, mending line is a painin the ass sometimes, especially compared to the longer rods, but in tightspots, with lots of trees overhanging (that is what most of my fishing islike) they are hard to beat.Advantages I find are 1. Less hangups in streamside vegetation. 2.More controlled and accurate casting, esp. when sight casting a dry torising fish . 3. Easier to land fish faster because of leverage advantageover fish.Disadvantages, 1. Harder to mend line than with a long rod and 2. On bigwater, it is harder to "reach out and touch" Mr. Trout rising a greatdistance away.I guess my take is that the short rods are great, but are definitely an"aquired" taste. Learning to mend line with the short rods can be verydiscouraging for a flyfisher that is young to the sport. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Short rods Over the winter I made a one piece 5 ft. fly rod. I wanted to give it athorough evaluation and fish with it over a period of time. It is now halfway through our fishing season - actually locally the season is year round,but the quality fishing in the Sierras goes from May to October - and I haveused the little rod in every type of fishing that I regularly do. I can saywithout reservation that I really like it. I may be a little prejudicedbecause I made it, but on the other hand I can make any type of rod I want,so writing this off as a failed experiment wouldn't have bothered me in theleast. I can cast 40 feet with this rod, and there was two times when Icouldn't reach where I wanted to. Mending line is a problem, not that youcan't mend, you just have to get better at it with a short rod. In smallbrushy streams it really shines. I get less than half of the hangups inbranches and bushes, etc. And I have four more feet of line out past the tiptop loading the rod tha!!n a 9 foot rod at the same distance casting. If I could only own one bamboo rod an ultra short one wouldn't be it. Butif I had two rods the second would definitely be a 5 or 6 footer. In fact Iam just finishing a 5' 9" 3piece to go backpacking with.Darryl from tom@cet-inc.com Fri Jul 28 10:32:18 2000 e6SFWHG04517 ) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: RE: Short rods Bob,I would add another advantage of short rods to your list. You can stringthem up by holding the rod in one hand and feeding the line through theguides with the other. No need to set the rod butt down in the dirt or on arock.Tom -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Short rods Advantages I find are 1. Less hangups in streamside vegetation. 2.More controlled and accurate casting, esp. when sight casting a dry torising fish . 3. Easier to land fish faster because of leverage advantageover fish. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 28 10:47:32 2000 e6SFlVG05321 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:42:13 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Short rods Amen Tom... never thought of that... of course, I am the worlds worst ontaking care of my rods... My main rod, has a case... somewhere, not surewhere! LOL... Usually, it just gets thrown on my flyfishing bag in thetrunk of the car... when I get a fish in hand, I throw rod, reel and alldown in the water (if it isn't deep)... many a time, I have set the butt ofthe rod, reel included, underwater at my feet while I tie on a new fly...What is it they say about a "plumber's pipes" :^) Later,Bob-----Original Message----- ; Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Short rods Bob,I would add another advantage of short rods to your list. You can stringthem up by holding the rod in one hand and feeding the line through theguides with the other. No need to set the rod butt down in the dirt or on arock.Tom -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Short rods Advantages I find are 1. Less hangups in streamside vegetation. 2.More controlled and accurate casting, esp. when sight casting a dry torising fish . 3. Easier to land fish faster because of leverage advantageover fish. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 28 11:10:31 2000 e6SGAVG06844 Subject: Re: Short rods Bob Nunley wrote: Amen Tom... never thought of that... Tom wrote:You can string them up by holding the rod in one hand and feeding the linethrough the guides with the other. Heck Bob,With a wingspan like yours, I figured you could string a 9 footer withoutsetting it down!! Not an advantage I have! Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 28 11:14:03 2000 e6SGE2G07061 Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:13:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Well Tim,If you want me to loan you a form, just say the word. :-) Sounds like a neat little invention you had for roughing. I truly envy theability some of you guys have for seeing a problem and devising a solution. Isuspect you've got other neat ideas tucked away, huh? Tell us about someofthem. Harry Tim Klein wrote: Actually Harry, I don't currently have a planing form! from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jul 28 11:16:49 2000 e6SGGkG07297 09:16:42 PDT Subject: RE: Short rods ...or in the water while standing hip deep in theriver. timothy --- Tom Whittle wrote:Bob,I would add another advantage of short rods to yourlist. You can stringthem up by holding the rod in one hand and feedingthe line through theguides with the other. No need to set the rod buttdown in the dirt or on arock.Tom -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of Bob NunleySent: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Short rods Advantages I find are 1. Less hangups instreamside vegetation. 2.More controlled and accurate casting, esp. whensight casting a dry torising fish . 3. Easier to land fish faster becauseof leverage advantageover fish. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jul 28 11:54:50 2000 e6SGsmG08692 (204.186.33.158) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Short rods I love short rods and fish with them almost exclusivly in bamboo andglass (sorry). There is nothing prettier than a short cane rod with asmall grip and a tiny reel or a .410 or 28 guage side by side. Oh, Iguess a case can be made for Michele Phiffer. There are those that say short rods have a disadvantage . Yes thatstrue! So, you only stick 10 fish a day instead of 20 . Who's countinganyway?Marty Amen Tom... never thought of that... of course, I am the worlds worst ontaking care of my rods... My main rod, has a case... somewhere, not surewhere! LOL... Usually, it just gets thrown on my flyfishing bag in thetrunk of the car... when I get a fish in hand, I throw rod, reel and alldown in the water (if it isn't deep)... many a time, I have set the butt ofthe rod, reel included, underwater at my feet while I tie on a new fly...What is it they say about a "plumber's pipes" :^) Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Tom Whittle ; Rod Makers List Serve Date: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:26 AMSubject: RE: Short rods Bob,I would add another advantage of short rods to your list. You can stringthem up by holding the rod in one hand and feeding the line through theguides with the other. No need to set the rod butt down in the dirt or on arock.Tom -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Short rods Advantages I find are 1. Less hangups in streamside vegetation. 2.More controlled and accurate casting, esp. when sight casting a dry torising fish . 3. Easier to land fish faster because of leverage advantageover fish. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jul 28 12:45:14 2000 e6SHjDG10078 Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:45:06 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Short rods I agree,one of the reasons I started building rods was the lack of shortlight line rods here in Nova Scotia (that and the American/Canadian exchangerate!). They are perfect rods for the small tight brookie streams everywherehere in N.S. Contrary to the standard 6/7 wt 9 footers everyone buys hereforsome God unknown- to me reason!I have never been as anxious to finish a rod as I am to finish thislittle 2 wt! I never even thought I could do a rod that tiny, I mean the tipstrips are only .027" and the mid section looks more like the butt end ofmosttip sections!Brookies and gaspereau watch out I'm coming for you !! :^) Shawn Bob Nunley wrote: Darryl,I guess you know, that I like the short rods above all others. Thelongest rod I make and sell is 8', the shortest a 4'9" one piece, and theone I generally fish is a 6 ft 4 wt. You're right, mending line is a painin the ass sometimes, especially compared to the longer rods, but in tightspots, with lots of trees overhanging (that is what most of my fishing islike) they are hard to beat.Advantages I find are 1. Less hangups in streamside vegetation. 2.More controlled and accurate casting, esp. when sight casting a dry torising fish . 3. Easier to land fish faster because of leverage advantageover fish.Disadvantages, 1. Harder to mend line than with a long rod and 2. On bigwater, it is harder to "reach out and touch" Mr. Trout rising a greatdistance away.I guess my take is that the short rods are great, but are definitely an"aquired" taste. Learning to mend line with the short rods can be verydiscouraging for a flyfisher that is young to the sport. Bob-----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Friday, July 28, 2000 9:43 AMSubject: Short rods Over the winter I made a one piece 5 ft. fly rod. I wanted to give it athorough evaluation and fish with it over a period of time. It is now halfway through our fishing season - actually locally the season is year round,but the quality fishing in the Sierras goes from May to October - and I haveused the little rod in every type of fishing that I regularly do. I can saywithout reservation that I really like it. I may be a little prejudicedbecause I made it, but on the other hand I can make any type of rod I want,so writing this off as a failed experiment wouldn't have bothered me in theleast. I can cast 40 feet with this rod, and there was two times when Icouldn't reach where I wanted to. Mending line is a problem, not that youcan't mend, you just have to get better at it with a short rod. In smallbrushy streams it really shines. I get less than half of the hangups inbranches and bushes, etc. And I have four more feet of line out past thetiptop loading the rod tha!!n a 9 foot rod at the same distance casting. If I could only own one bamboo rod an ultra short one wouldn't be it. Butif I had two rods the second would definitely be a 5 or 6 footer. In fact Iam just finishing a 5' 9" 3piece to go backpacking with.Darryl from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 28 16:20:07 2000 e6SLK6G18389 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with SMTP ;Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:19:59 +0000 "Rod Makers" Subject: Re: Off Topic -- Letort Update Probably if we all saw the size of the parking lot that will go along withthis Home Depot, the run-off that will enter this pristine stream willcertainly pollute it and ruin it. Jack-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Off Topic -- Letort Update This is all Greek to me ! Are we to assume this is action to stop thepollution, or messing with a good trout stream ???? G----- Original Message -----From: "FREDERICK W BOHLS, CFP" Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:47 PMSubject: Off Topic -- Letort Update Here is an update on the Letort / Home Depot situation. The citizenshave file appeals -- with the Borough and in the courts -- to overturnthe rezoning. There appear to be major concerns with the PA Dept. ofEnvironmental Protection. We do not expect any action before the Carlisle Borough beforeSeptember. Lots of hurdles yet to cross. Many thanks to Bob Maulucci for his contribution to the cause -- a superrod for the raffle. I can vouch for myself - a proclaimed 'dummy' (but from a very knowledgeable person as well) - that this was a job verywell done. Special thanks to Bob for his help. F. --Fred Bohls3519 Ada Drive Mechanicsburg,PA 17055-2213 (717) 732-5050 (717) 732-2448 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!! from captvonbek@earthlink.net Fri Jul 28 17:52:20 2000 e6SMqJG21853 PAA14617 Subject: RE: No luck finding CRS Bret, I hear you loud and clear. I've been discerning this and am beginningto think that it might be best, in my situation, to purchase a qualityplaning form: I do not own the tools necessary to build planing forms, I am too far away from friends who would lend them to me, or they don'tIt's silly to purchase these tools just for this construction and knowingthere will be little, else I will use them for( I won't be making planingforms as a side-gig.),and, AND, my lovely wife has contibuted her 2 cents by suggesting that Ijust purchase the best of whatever I need to begin this hobby so that Idon't decide to upgrade later on. Now, I've been looking at the Golden Witch Planing Form. Anyone own thisplaning form and want to make a testimonial? Again, thanks to everyone for their help, insights, offers, etc.. Regards, Frank PS: Anyone going to Livingston Manor, New York next month? --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 28 20:04:11 2000 e6T14AG24166 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: RE: No luck finding CRS boundary="=====================_1378937==_.ALT" --=====================_1378937==_.ALT Frank:My money would be on a GW form or one of Jeff Wagner's. I can only vouch leaps and bounds.I just had this conversation at a fellow listmember's Wednesday, and he needs to replace his Wagner forms. They belong to his shop partner, and the partner is moving. He said he was only considering the Wagner or GW forms. This guy builds rod for a living, and he is doing pretty well at it. His rods are fantastic, and he has built nearly 20 rods in the last 5 months. I would say his opinion counts for a lot. Also, Russ and Jeff are really helpful guys and they deliver on their promise of quality stuff.As usual, I have no financial interest in this, blah, blah, blah.....Good luck,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_1378937==_.ALT Frank:My money would be on a GW form or one of Jeff Wagner's. I can onlyvouch for Jeff's personally and say they are the best I have seen upclose by leaps and bounds.I just had this conversation at a fellow listmember's Wednesday, and partner, and the partner is moving. He said he was only considering theWagner or GW forms. This guy builds rod for a living, and he is doingpretty well at it. His rods are fantastic, and he has built nearly 20rods in the last 5 months. I would say his opinion counts for a lot.Also, Russ and Jeff are really helpful guys and they deliver on theirpromise of quality stuff.As usual, I have no financial interest in this, blah, blah,blah.....Good luck, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_1378937==_.ALT-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Jul 28 20:19:37 2000 e6T1JbG24474 Subject: Re: No luck finding CRS There is a Canadian machinist making forms. I have four of them and findthey work just fine. The Can/US exchange makes them attractive. ContactGrindstone Angler Fly Shop at 905-689-0880 for info on price. Nocommercial interest except to promote another Canadian. I might bring oneof these forms to Roscoe. ----------From: Frank Olivieri Subject: RE: No luck finding CRSDate: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:50 PM Bret, I hear you loud and clear. I've been discerning this and ambeginningto think that it might be best, in my situation, to purchase a qualityplaning form: I do not own the tools necessary to build planing forms, I am too far away from friends who would lend them to me, or they don'tIt's silly to purchase these tools just for this construction and knowingthere will be little, else I will use them for( I won't be making planingforms as a side-gig.),and, AND, my lovely wife has contibuted her 2 cents by suggesting that Ijust purchase the best of whatever I need to begin this hobby so that Idon't decide to upgrade later on. Now, I've been looking at the Golden Witch Planing Form. Anyone own thisplaning form and want to make a testimonial? Again, thanks to everyone for their help, insights, offers, etc.. Regards, Frank PS: Anyone going to Livingston Manor, New York next month? --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Jul 28 20:37:19 2000 e6T1bIG24805 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 Subject: Re: No luck finding CRS RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Thanks Bob. Yes Jeff Wagner's forms have served me very wellJoe from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jul 28 21:00:33 2000 e6T20WG25198 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: No luck finding CRS RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu I too have one of the sets of forms to which Ted is referring. They areoutstanding. I have built three rods on them since receiving them thisspring. One of the nice things about these forms is that the top 30 inchesthe tip section has push/pull stations every 2.5 inches instead of theusual 5 inches. This provides superior control in planing the tip. Inaddition, the butt groove is milled in the opposite direction to the tipgroove. (The deep end of the butt groove is at the same end of the forms asthe shallow end of the tip groove). So, the bottom 30 inches of the groovehave the stations at every 2.5 inches. This allows you to make swelledbutts. These forms required no tweaking, arrived in 48 hours by UPS andcost me $375 cdn. They are the single best purchase I have made in rodbuilding equipment. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 9:18 PM Subject: Re: No luck finding CRS There is a Canadian machinist making forms. I have four ofthem and findthey work just fine. The Can/US exchange makes themattractive. ContactGrindstone Angler Fly Shop at 905-689-0880 for info on price. Nocommercial interest except to promote another Canadian. Imight bring oneof these forms to Roscoe. ----------From: Frank Olivieri Subject: RE: No luck finding CRSDate: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:50 PM Bret, I hear you loud and clear. I've been discerning this and ambeginningto think that it might be best, in my situation, topurchase a qualityplaning form: I do not own the tools necessary to build planing forms,I am too far away from friends who would lend them to me,or they don'tIt's silly to purchase these tools just for thisconstruction and knowingthere will be little, else I will use them for( I won't bemaking planingforms as a side-gig.),and, AND, my lovely wife has contibuted her 2 cents bysuggesting that Ijust purchase the best of whatever I need to begin thishobby so that Idon't decide to upgrade later on. Now, I've been looking at the Golden Witch Planing Form.Anyone own thisplaning form and want to make a testimonial? Again, thanks to everyone for their help, insights, offers, etc.. Regards, Frank PS: Anyone going to Livingston Manor, New York next month? --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Jul 28 21:27:28 2000 e6T2RRG25671 Subject: RE: No luck finding CRS RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Frank,I have seen the GW forms (russ's shop is local to me). They are nice forms. They are heavier steel than the Jeff Wagner forms, although I was up at George Mauer's and saw that he uses the Jeff Wagner forms. They arevery nice. I would buy either one. Something to think about is that another list member said that he is very happy with the Canadian forms for $375. So if they are half the money of the other forms and work well, and if by chance you don't like cane rod building, you don't have an $850 hunk of metal sitting in your apartment. Just some options to think about and my twocents. Good luck. I hope you succeed in the addiction. Tom from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Jul 28 21:27:35 2000 e6T2RYG25694 Subject: Re: Off Topic -- Letort Update rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fred, I for one love the LETORT. Glad to see the E.P.A. is involved. I caught my first fish there this year on the sulfur hatch (beautiful fish). There is just something about a wild brown trout stream running through Carlisle. Plus, the beauty of the stream and all the history behind it. Plus, where can you flyfish without crowds except there? We just can't afford to lose that little jewel. What can I do to help the fight? Tom from captvonbek@earthlink.net Fri Jul 28 21:59:07 2000 e6T2x6G26300 TAA11949 Subject: Thanks everyone for your insights. I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from the substantialprice margin, of course. As artist( student), I've spent a great deal of money on mediocrecharcoals, brushes, oils, pastels, only to find later that there aresuperlative brands. Anyone who paints with oils may agree with me thatthere is a significant difference between synthetic brush hairs and finesables. Of course it is typical when entering into a hobby to get a feel for it, tomake due with entry-level tools, equipment. One may get a feel for oilpainting having spent less than $200.00 ( perhaps less with Bob Ross oilsand brushes). Here, in this hobby/art, we're talking several hundred dollars, which isnot an issue for me knowing what is in store here, to try it out, so tospeak. No, I'm not rich-I'm a teacher. Anway, considering that I will enjoy this intensely, is a lower-pricedplaning form as good as any of the higher priced forms. Again, what is thedifference, if you will, anyone? Please forgive me if this is redundant. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Jul 28 22:14:11 2000 e6T3EBG26678 Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:14:19 PDT Subject: RE: No luck finding CRS From: bob maulucci Subject: RE: No luck finding CRSDate: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:18:26 -0400 Frank:My money would be on a GW form or one of Jeff Wagner's. I can only vouch leaps and bounds.I just had this conversation at a fellow listmember's Wednesday, and heneeds to replace his Wagner forms. They belong to his shop partner, andthe partner is moving. He said he was only considering the Wagner or GWforms. This guy builds rod for a living, and he is doing pretty well at it.His rods are fantastic, and he has built nearly 20 rods in the last 5months. I would say his opinion counts for a lot. Also, Russ and Jeff arereally helpful guys and they deliver on their promise of quality stuff.As usual, I have no financial interest in this, blah, blah, blah.....Good luck,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com I can vouch for the quality of the forms from GW, they are made by Al Bellinger and Are quite a well finished product. Blah, Blah Blah!A.J.thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 28 22:54:21 2000 e6T3sKG27311 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Sat, 29 Jul 2000 03:54:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Frank and all, I don't want to be a fly in the ointment here because I'm not familiarwith the forms everyone's talking about. Anyway, I got my forms fromLon Blauvelt of Falmouth, Maine and I'm very happy with them. I thinkthey cost me on the order of $300.00 to $350.00 or thereabouts. I knowof another set of his forms that lives not 35 miles from me and they areof equal quality so I can attest to the consistency of workmanship. No interest, blah, blah, yatta, yatta... If you want his info contact me off list and I'll dig it up for you. Dennis Frank Olivieri wrote: Thanks everyone for your insights. I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from the substantialprice margin, of course. As artist( student), I've spent a great deal of money on mediocrecharcoals, brushes, oils, pastels, only to find later that there aresuperlative brands. Anyone who paints with oils may agree with me thatthere is a significant difference between synthetic brush hairs and finesables. Of course it is typical when entering into a hobby to get a feel for it, tomake due with entry-level tools, equipment. One may get a feel for oilpainting having spent less than $200.00 ( perhaps less with Bob Ross oilsand brushes). Here, in this hobby/art, we're talking several hundred dollars, which isnot an issue for me knowing what is in store here, to try it out, so tospeak. No, I'm not rich-I'm a teacher. Anway, considering that I will enjoy this intensely, is a lower-pricedplaning form as good as any of the higher priced forms. Again, what is thedifference, if you will, anyone? Please forgive me if this is redundant. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 28 23:08:27 2000 e6T48QG27559 Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:08:21 -0700 Subject: Planing Forms was: Re: Frank,You're asking a tough question here. Can you make better rods on Wagnerforms than on less expensive forms? Absolutely not. There is nothing"better"about expensive forms than inexpensive forms, assuming both are well-made. Aslong as the forms are square, and the groove is accurately cut, any form willdo just fine. Hardened tool steel, stress relieved steel, cold-rolled steel,aluminum, brass, corian, maple, and so on all make good forms.The difference, in my opinion, is largely cosmetic. Before any of you jumpon that, let me remind you of two things: first, you're going to gouge theforms with your plane now and then; and second, they are adjustable. Themaindifference is cosmetic, but there are other minor variances. Some formsadjustmore easily than others. Some require less maintenance than others. Somecomewith more bells and whistles.Let's think about it in other terms. Is a Lie Nielson plane better than anold Record or Stanley 9.5? Better? No. But it might be more enjoyable forthose who appreciate fine tools.Having said all that, I really wish I had a nice set of expensiveplaning forms. Maybe quad forms. Or even a Morgan Hand Mill.... Sorry if this confuses things further. Harry Boyd...... who made his own forms and uses nothing but Stanley planes,-- well, with the exception of the Lie Nielson scraper plane. Frank Olivieri wrote: I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from the substantialprice margin, of course. from bh887@lafn.org Fri Jul 28 23:08:33 2000 e6T48WG27564 (envelope- from bh887@lafn.org) Subject: Re: Couldn't keep from jumping in here and talking about tool relative values.True, Frank, you might not like rod-building. But with inexpensive and onlypartially adequate tools (hence the inexpensive) you are far less likely toenjoy the hobby than you would with more adequate tools. That is true notonly of planing forms but also of planes, micrometers, and whatever othertools you select. Poor tools, while inexpensive and perhaps adequate for onetime use, are still a problem. ( Is it my technique which is bad or have Isimply gotten everything the tool can deliver?) The high praise for theCanadian Machinist's forms, and I wish they had given his name as well ashis phone number, tells me that the tools are probably underpriced, acondiition which will change as soon as the realization dawns. Get the besttools available and enjoy the benefits the fine stuff gives you from thestart. Luck, Lee----- Original Message ----- Thanks everyone for your insights. I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from the substantialprice margin, of course. As artist( student), I've spent a great deal of money on mediocrecharcoals, brushes, oils, pastels, only to find later that there aresuperlative brands. Anyone who paints with oils may agree with me thatthere is a significant difference between synthetic brush hairs and finesables. Of course it is typical when entering into a hobby to get a feel for it,tomake due with entry-level tools, equipment. One may get a feel for oilpainting having spent less than $200.00 ( perhaps less with Bob Ross oilsand brushes). Here, in this hobby/art, we're talking several hundred dollars, which isnot an issue for me knowing what is in store here, to try it out, so tospeak. No, I'm not rich-I'm a teacher. Anway, considering that I will enjoy this intensely, is a lower-pricedplaning form as good as any of the higher priced forms. Again, what is thedifference, if you will, anyone? Please forgive me if this is redundant. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from ddeloach@pcisys.net Sat Jul 29 00:31:51 2000 e6T5VoG28840 Subject: Re: Speaking solely from experience not from heresay, I have Frank Armbrustersforms and they are very well made and easily worth the asking price. They'renot "gorgeous" but as someone else said evem the pretty forms WILL getplenty of knicks in them anyway. Don-----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Couldn't keep from jumping in here and talking about tool relative values.True, Frank, you might not like rod-building. But with inexpensive andonlypartially adequate tools (hence the inexpensive) you are far less likely toenjoy the hobby than you would with more adequate tools. That is true notonly of planing forms but also of planes, micrometers, and whatever othertools you select. Poor tools, while inexpensive and perhaps adequate foronetime use, are still a problem. ( Is it my technique which is bad or have Isimply gotten everything the tool can deliver?) The high praise for theCanadian Machinist's forms, and I wish they had given his name as well ashis phone number, tells me that the tools are probably underpriced, acondiition which will change as soon as the realization dawns. Get thebesttools available and enjoy the benefits the fine stuff gives you from thestart. Luck, Lee----- Original Message -----From: Frank Olivieri Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 7:55 PM Thanks everyone for your insights. I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from thesubstantialprice margin, of course. As artist( student), I've spent a great deal of money on mediocrecharcoals, brushes, oils, pastels, only to find later that there aresuperlative brands. Anyone who paints with oils may agree with me thatthere is a significant difference between synthetic brush hairs and finesables. Of course it is typical when entering into a hobby to get a feel for it,tomake due with entry-level tools, equipment. One may get a feel for oilpainting having spent less than $200.00 ( perhaps less with Bob Ross oilsand brushes). Here, in this hobby/art, we're talking several hundred dollars, which isnot an issue for me knowing what is in store here, to try it out, so tospeak. No, I'm not rich-I'm a teacher. Anway, considering that I will enjoy this intensely, is a lower-pricedplaning form as good as any of the higher priced forms. Again, what isthedifference, if you will, anyone? Please forgive me if this is redundant. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from iank@ts.co.nz Sat Jul 29 01:23:16 2000 e6T6NCG29505 with SMTP id SAA10192 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 200018:07:07 +1200 Subject: Re: buying equipment This discussion on buying forms has made me contemplate the various itemsIhave in my workshop which have been bought for rodmaking , and not usedmuchas I now have a newer/better/alternative way of doing that task. Forms arenot an issue, my old wooden forms still make good roughing out forms andmost other things do get used most of the time. The big exception is my dial calliper. I have a digital readout one now andit is very much easier to use , for a person who is not an engineer and notbeen using micrometers most of their life. If there is one piece of advise I would give a person starting out andbuying equipment it is to buy digital readout callipers , the extra money iswell worth it.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Speaking solely from experience not from heresay, I have FrankArmbrustersforms and they are very well made and easily worth the asking price.They'renot "gorgeous" but as someone else said evem the pretty forms WILL getplenty of knicks in them anyway. Don-----Original Message-----From: Lee Freeman RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:07 PMSubject: Re: Couldn't keep from jumping in here and talking about tool relativevalues.True, Frank, you might not like rod-building. But with inexpensive andonlypartially adequate tools (hence the inexpensive) you are far less likelytoenjoy the hobby than you would with more adequate tools. That is truenotonly of planing forms but also of planes, micrometers, and whateverothertools you select. Poor tools, while inexpensive and perhaps adequate foronetime use, are still a problem. ( Is it my technique which is bad or haveIsimply gotten everything the tool can deliver?) The high praise for theCanadian Machinist's forms, and I wish they had given his name as well ashis phone number, tells me that the tools are probably underpriced, acondiition which will change as soon as the realization dawns. Get thebesttools available and enjoy the benefits the fine stuff gives you from thestart. Luck, Lee----- Original Message -----From: Frank Olivieri Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 7:55 PM Thanks everyone for your insights. I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from thesubstantialprice margin, of course. As artist( student), I've spent a great deal of money on mediocrecharcoals, brushes, oils, pastels, only to find later that there aresuperlative brands. Anyone who paints with oils may agree with me thatthere is a significant difference between synthetic brush hairs andfinesables. Of course it is typical when entering into a hobby to get a feel forit,tomake due with entry-level tools, equipment. One may get a feel for oilpainting having spent less than $200.00 ( perhaps less with Bob Rossoilsand brushes). Here, in this hobby/art, we're talking several hundred dollars, whichisnot an issue for me knowing what is in store here, to try it out, so tospeak. No, I'm not rich-I'm a teacher. Anway, considering that I will enjoy this intensely, is a lower-pricedplaning form as good as any of the higher priced forms. Again, what isthedifference, if you will, anyone? Please forgive me if this is redundant. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 29 07:30:38 2000 e6TCUbG03018 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Sat, 29 Jul 2000 07:29:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Frank, over 50 years after I attended art school, my brushes purchasedthen,are still in use for varnishing rods, wraps, etc. ! They are as good todayas they were then. I totally agree that buying the best quality, is cheaperin the long run ! Talk to the top craftsmen in the rod making field, when deciding what toget. GMA----- Original Message ----- Thanks everyone for your insights. I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from the substantialprice margin, of course. As artist( student), I've spent a great deal of money on mediocrecharcoals, brushes, oils, pastels, only to find later that there aresuperlative brands. Anyone who paints with oils may agree with me thatthere is a significant difference between synthetic brush hairs and finesables. Of course it is typical when entering into a hobby to get a feel for it,tomake due with entry-level tools, equipment. One may get a feel for oilpainting having spent less than $200.00 ( perhaps less with Bob Ross oilsand brushes). Here, in this hobby/art, we're talking several hundred dollars, which isnot an issue for me knowing what is in store here, to try it out, so tospeak. No, I'm not rich-I'm a teacher. Anway, considering that I will enjoy this intensely, is a lower-pricedplaning form as good as any of the higher priced forms. Again, what is thedifference, if you will, anyone? Please forgive me if this is redundant. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 29 07:46:05 2000 e6TCk4G03391 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Sat, 29 Jul 2000 07:44:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing Forms was: Re: To me the most important aspects to this are:1.) Accuracy; 2.) Ease and accuracy of adjustment. Cosmetics are the leastimportant. A hardened material, that doesn't get gouged, etc. easily, wouldbe an asset. This applies to any tool ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Planing Forms was: Re: Frank,You're asking a tough question here. Can you make better rods onWagnerforms than on less expensive forms? Absolutely not. There is nothing"better"about expensive forms than inexpensive forms, assuming both are well-made.Aslong as the forms are square, and the groove is accurately cut, any formwilldo just fine. Hardened tool steel, stress relieved steel, cold-rolledsteel,aluminum, brass, corian, maple, and so on all make good forms.The difference, in my opinion, is largely cosmetic. Before any of youjumpon that, let me remind you of two things: first, you're going to gouge theforms with your plane now and then; and second, they are adjustable. Themaindifference is cosmetic, but there are other minor variances. Some formsadjustmore easily than others. Some require less maintenance than others. Somecomewith more bells and whistles.Let's think about it in other terms. Is a Lie Nielson plane betterthan anold Record or Stanley 9.5? Better? No. But it might be more enjoyableforthose who appreciate fine tools.Having said all that, I really wish I had a nice set of expensiveplaning forms. Maybe quad forms. Or even a Morgan Hand Mill.... Sorry if this confuses things further. Harry Boyd...... who made his own forms and uses nothing but Stanleyplanes,- - well, with the exception of the Lie Nielson scraper plane. Frank Olivieri wrote: I am considering, now, what might be the difference(s) between thelower- priced forms and the higher-priced forms, aside from thesubstantialprice margin, of course. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 29 08:28:23 2000 e6TDSMG05399 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 06:28:15 -0700 Subject: Re: buying equipment Ian Kearney wrote: This discussion on buying forms has made me contemplate the variousitems Ihave in my workshop which have been bought for rodmaking , and not usedmuch... Ian,I agree, digital calipers are worth the price. Especially when you can geta very good set for $36.75 from Lea Valley Tools, phone 1-800-871-8158;item #88N62.07 No affiliation, etc. Brings up another question I've been thinking about: What the worstmoneyyou folks have spent on rodmaking? I've got LOTS of candidates.... Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 29 08:43:10 2000 e6TDh9G05756 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Sat, 29 Jul 2000 08:41:51 -0500 Subject: Re: buying equipment In a machine shop, the worst buy is a digital caliper ! If an inspector wereto see one in use, the part would be suspect instantly ! To measure withreal accuracy, get a good 1" micrometer, and learn to read it ! Foraccuracy, a caliper is used sort of like a yard stick ! It gets you close tothe rough dimension ! I avoided the wasted money, as a very experienced machinist loaned me onetotry. After one day, I mailed it back to him ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: buying equipment Ian Kearney wrote: This discussion on buying forms has made me contemplate the variousitems Ihave in my workshop which have been bought for rodmaking , and notusedmuch... Ian,I agree, digital calipers are worth the price. Especially when youcan geta very good set for $36.75 from Lea Valley Tools, phone 1-800-871-8158;item #88N62.07 No affiliation, etc. Brings up another question I've been thinking about: What the worstmoneyyou folks have spent on rodmaking? I've got LOTS of candidates.... Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Jul 29 09:02:00 2000 e6TE1xG06104 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3CCC9B3007C; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:01:48 -0500 Subject: Re: buying equipment I've been lucky so far,$15 in phone calls to try to ordersome cane when I first got in to rod building last year.It nearly drove me mad, I made numerous calls to theplace and he would never call back or ship.After some help from the guys on the list I found agood source for life. I have built all my own tools with the exception of a stanley block planea dial indicator0-1 mikehock blade i made my forms for $50 a year ago,and i admit that i already had the tools and a small drill press.all i needed to purchase was the fasteners($18), cutting oil,3/4 x 3/4 crs (its was $16.85 with tax), and the tool bits for thegroove just my 2 centsBrad----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: buying equipment Ian Kearney wrote: This discussion on buying forms has made me contemplate the variousitems Ihave in my workshop which have been bought for rodmaking , and notusedmuch... Ian,I agree, digital calipers are worth the price. Especially when youcan geta very good set for $36.75 from Lea Valley Tools, phone 1-800-871-8158;item #88N62.07 No affiliation, etc. Brings up another question I've been thinking about: What the worstmoneyyou folks have spent on rodmaking? I've got LOTS of candidates.... Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from BJCarlson@webtv.net Sat Jul 29 09:53:50 2000 e6TErnG06880 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA06973; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 07:53:48 - ETAtAhRX9HC0WhiSMdDveB0yx2PQZsfswAIVAJmXlr6LImppyg03u39f/wNiW8On Subject: Re: buying equipment While buying a new airless paint sprayer at H... D..... the other day Ifound a new Milwaukee heat gun, with 10 adjustable heat zones for just$39.95. Just what I needed was another heat gun but I couldn't pass itup. Works fine. Bob from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jul 29 09:59:34 2000 e6TExXG07073 Subject: A skookum rod Organization: GOULD boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFF932.CE3ABC20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFF932.CE3ABC20 Hi gang,Thought you might get a kick out of this, it's the taper for a rather =stout (skookum) cane rod built by Clark Lincoln in 1935 under the =tutelage of Dawn Holbrook. The rod was used to troll for King Salmon in =the slot off Hope Island, Washington back in the days when Salmon really =did exist. The rod is 85 1/2" long overall and has a 17" detachable butt =section with a wood handle.0=3D under stainless steel roller typ tip top, 5=3D 0.242", 10=3D =0.289", 15=3D 0.327", 20=3D 0.372", 25=3D 0.407", 30=3D 0.432", 35=3D=0.458", 40=3D 0.471", 45=3D 0.496", 50=3D 0.526", 55=3D 0.552", 60=3D=0.609", rest is under handle.Even though it's 65 yrs old the cane is in remarkably good condition =with good glue joints and is straight as an arrow.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFF932.CE3ABC20 Hi gang,Thought you might get a kick out of = taper for a rather stout (skookum) cane rod built by Clark Lincoln in = the tutelage of Dawn Holbrook. The rod was used to troll for King Salmon = slot off Hope Island, Washington back in the days when Salmon really did = The rod is 85 1/2" long overall and has a 17" detachable butt section = wood handle.0=3D under stainless steel roller typ = 0.242", 10=3D 0.289", 15=3D 0.327", 20=3D 0.372", 25=3D 0.407", 30=3D= 40=3D 0.471", 45=3D 0.496", 50=3D 0.526", 55=3D 0.552", 60=3D 0.609",= handle.Even though it's 65 yrs old = arrow.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BFF932.CE3ABC20-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Jul 29 10:28:11 2000 e6TFSAG07520 Subject: Re: No luck finding CRS captvonbek@earthlink.net, RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu I just talked to Keith at Grindstone Angler and he said with tweaking there forms would only rate 5or 6 out of 10 compared to Jeff Wagner's Forms healso said that without tweaking the forms are not even comparable to Jeff's asfar as flatness and accuracy.This is the man selling the forms.You get what you pay for!!!Joe from HalManas@aol.com Sat Jul 29 11:03:58 2000 e6TG3vG08126 Subject: Re: Jeff Wagner's planing forms So, where do you buy Jeff Wagner's forms? I tried the link under commercial tools on the rodmakers page and got nothing.Hal from if6were9@bellsouth.net Sat Jul 29 11:06:14 2000 e6TG6DG08272 Subject: Re: buying equipment nobler wrote: In a machine shop, the worst buy is a digital caliper ! If an inspector wereto see one in use, the part would be suspect instantly ! Very well said. I spent the better part of 16 years building weapons systems(AMRAM, Phalanx gun, etc., etc.) for our uncle sam, who is very picky aboutdimensions. While digital tools were used, they were for the most partrestricted to the (temperature controlled) QA room in the form of veryexpensiveCMM's. Calipers of any kind were only used when roughing out stock, or iftolerances (the amount of allowed deviation from stated dimension) werelargeenough. For any "tight" dimension, or those that had to be "dead nuts", mic'swere the only way to go. If you are using digital tools, get a standard andcheck them often. from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Jul 29 11:33:08 2000 e6TGX7G08750 JAA12808 Subject: Thanks everyone truly delighted to find that this list is not the "Yankees fans vs. Metsfans" or "Traditional math vs, Constructivist math" I've found elsewhere.My introduction into this art has been rather welcoming( Yes, I know, it'searly :)). Well, the "node vs. nodeless" debate throughout the archivesnever got hot. Anyway, Joe, I was about to call Grindstone Anglers to inquire about theirforms having read what some folks wrote. I agree wholeheartedly with yourlast comment: "you get what you pay for!!!"I've never found this to be untrue. I suspect there is more time put intocrafting some forms so that they are true, precise or accurate, easier touse and adjust. I suppose pretty or cosmetic may not be the most importantqualities to discern in one's purchase, but those qualities do, somehow,express the craftperson's commitment to the final product and thebuyer/user. So, it seems that the Wagner, GW, and Munro have the highest ratings. Iwill look at these more closely. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Jul 29 11:36:46 2000 e6TGajG08953 JAA20494 Subject: Re: Jeff Wagner's Planing Forms Hal, Go to the link for the Rodmakers list, over to the right. :) Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from tcwege@worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 29 11:38:36 2000 e6TGcZG09104 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with SMTP +0000 Subject: What angle do you sharpen your blade to?? Hi All,Hope you guys are not getting sick of all my rookie questions! Well, Ibought the plane (Record) and the Hock blade so now this question. Whatangle do you sharpen your blade at? In The Lovely Reed Howell says you cango as far as 55 Degrees. I am far from an expert, but that seems mightysteep to me. What angle do you guys sharpen at?Thanks,Tilo from martinj@aa.net Sat Jul 29 12:01:05 2000 e6TH15G09551 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:01:02 -0700 Subject: RE: What angle do you sharpen your blade to?? 55 degrees is very steep but it is what I use and I have no problems withit. Add this to the blade angle of about 21 degrees and you have a totalangle of over 70 degrees. As I said it works just fine. almost like ascraper. It doesn't feel like that when planing though. Feels just likeplaning Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: What angle do you sharpen your blade to?? Hi All,Hope you guys are not getting sick of all my rookie questions! Well, Ibought the plane (Record) and the Hock blade so now this question. Whatangle do you sharpen your blade at? In The Lovely Reed Howell says you cango as far as 55 Degrees. I am far from an expert, but that seems mightysteep to me. What angle do you guys sharpen at?Thanks,Tilo from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Jul 29 12:05:27 2000 e6TH5QG09717 Subject: (no subject) Here is Jeff's Web Address http://www.wagnerrods.com from le_moucheux@hotmail.com Sat Jul 29 12:48:31 2000 e6THmUG10524 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:48:24 PDT Subject: Spey Rod Construction Hi all, I've been on this list for a while now, but always as a reader ans found it very educational. Now I have a question to all you fine rod makers. I have been giving a 13' spey rod (Sharpe from Aberdeen Scotland) for repair and I found something very strange and interesting, to me anyway! The construction of this Sharpe Sprey rod is a rod inside a rod.Anyone know of this type of construction? is it the way all spey rods are built? You will find a picture of a cut section at the following urlhttp://www3.sympatico.ca/marldavies/spey.jpg Thanks MIke________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jul 29 12:55:49 2000 e6THtnG10790 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:55:45 -0400 (5.0.2195) Subject: Re: Spey Rod Construction Mike That is a "double built" rod - a common practice for larger rods. Basically you laminate two strips together for greater power fiber depth.Another interesting piece of information in the picture is how they cheatedon their angles which was a common production trick of the trade. Chris On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:48:24 EDT, Michel Lajoie wrote: Hi all, I've been on this list for a while now, but always as a reader ans found it very educational. Now I have a question to all you fine rod makers. I have been giving a 13' spey rod (Sharpe from Aberdeen Scotland) forrepair and I found something very strange and interesting, to me anyway! The construction of this Sharpe Sprey rod is a rod inside a rod.Anyone know of this type of construction? is it the way all spey rods are built? You will find a picture of a cut section at the following urlhttp://www3.sympatico.ca/marldavies/spey.jpg Thanks MIke________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 29 13:25:52 2000 e6TIPpG11400 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: ferrule fitting boundary="=====================_20654736==_.ALT" --=====================_20654736==_.ALT I just wanted to pass on a few observations I made today regarding ferrule fitting. which I find to be a real pain most of the time. These come after spending the morning cutting the ferrules off this blank because I destroyed the fit by being careless.Let me know if this was luck, or did I stumble upon something...1. Fitting the ferrules off of the blank was easier because the males turned much truer in the lathe. (Yes, I used the lathe, sorry.)2. The fine Swiss files work great for taking off nice even amounts.3. Use latex gloves to help separate the ferrules for a nice grip.4. When you get it all the way fit, give it a hit with some 3M buffing polish in a cloth. Wow, what a fit and shine to boot.I just wondered what you all think of this because I finally seem to have gotten it right. Any other tips or observations?Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_20654736==_.ALT I just wanted to pass on a few observations I made todayregarding ferrule fitting. which I find to be a real pain most of thetime. These come after spending the morning cutting the ferrules off thisblank because I destroyed the fit by being careless.Let me know if this was luck, or did I stumble uponsomething...1. Fitting the ferrules off of the blank was easier because themales turned much truer in the lathe. (Yes, I used the lathe,sorry.)2. The fine Swiss files work great for taking off nice evenamounts.3. Use latex gloves to help separate the ferrules for a nicegrip.4. When you get it all the way fit, give it a hit with some 3Mbuffing polish in a cloth. Wow, what a fit and shine to boot.I just wondered what you all think of this because I finally seem tohave gotten it right. Any other tips or observations?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_20654736==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 29 13:52:21 2000 e6TIqJG11943 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:53:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Spey Rod Construction I looks like a double built, but with a round exterior. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Spey Rod Construction Hi all, I've been on this list for a while now, but always as a reader ans founditvery educational. Now I have a question to all you fine rod makers. I have been giving a 13' spey rod (Sharpe from Aberdeen Scotland) forrepairand I found something very strange and interesting, to me anyway! The construction of this Sharpe Sprey rod is a rod inside a rod.Anyone know of this type of construction? is it the way all spey rods arebuilt? You will find a picture of a cut section at the following urlhttp://www3.sympatico.ca/marldavies/spey.jpg Thanks MIke ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Sat Jul 29 14:03:03 2000 e6TJ32G12248 e6TJ2xp127666 Subject: Oxidizing nickel silver boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF955.551A8140" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF955.551A8140 I am in the middle of my first adventure with oxidizing NS and and into =a problem. I am using REC oxidizing solution which is just a Kodak film =developing kit. I've heard from others that this stuff takes a long =time and the instructions say to leave the parts soaking in the solution = blackens parts in a couple of minutes. I've also read that the =oxidation easily rubs off and parts need to be coated with a clear =finish to protect them while working with them. To me, the oxidation =seems to be pretty durable as long as you don't take steel wool to it. My problem is this: I sprayed the parts with spar urethane and then used =Devcon epoxy to glue the ferrules on. When I unwrapped the ferrules, =much of the oxidation chipped off withthe epoxy when I unwound the =thread I used to bind the ferrule tabs down. I cleaned them off with =steel wool and carefully painted them with the oxidizing solution and =they blackened right up again, but I'm concerned that oxidation on the =inside of parts will weaken the bond between the ferrules and the cane. =Does anyone have have experience with this? A related question I've got is should reel seat hardware be sprayed with =a clear finish to protect it? I'm using a uplocking reelseat and am =concerned that any finish will interfere with the threads. -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF955.551A8140 I am in the middle of my first = this stuff takes a long time and the instructions say to leave the parts = in the solution for 8 to 10 hours, but I apparently mixed the solution = the oxidation easily rubs off and parts need to be coated with a clear = pretty durable as long as you don't take steel wool to it. My problem is this: I sprayed the = unwrapped the ferrules, much of the oxidation chipped off withthe epoxy = off with steel wool and carefully painted them with the oxidizing = they blackened right up again, but I'm concerned that oxidation on the = have have experience with this? A related question I've got is should reel seat = and am concerned that any finish will interfere with the =threads. -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF955.551A8140-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Jul 29 14:19:12 2000 e6TJJBG12656 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Thanks everyone Anyway, Joe, I was about to call Grindstone Anglers toinquire about theirforms having read what some folks wrote. I agreewholeheartedly with yourlast comment: "you get what you pay for!!!" I think the notion that the quality of something is linked to its price isone of the great fallacies of modern life. So many people adhere to thismyth that it is common for a company to put out the same product undertwonames and with different packaging but with radically different prices.Then, the bargain hunters will purchase the lower-priced item and thediscerning shoppers will purchase the more expensive, "higher quality"version. I've exploited this stupidity myself. As a consultant, I doubled my fees afew years ago and overnight developed the reputation of being "the best inthe business." And yet, I continued performing the same work at the samelevel of expertise. Although I build rods for pleasure and as gifts for friends. I look forwardto becoming a professional rodbuilder some day. My rods will be priced at$5000 and, because of this pricing, I will surely be known as the nextGarrison or Dickerson. Richard from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Jul 29 14:21:00 2000 e6TJKxG12809 Subject: Re: No luck finding CRS teekay35@interlynx.net,captvonbek@earthlink.net, RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu To all: In no way did I mean to flame Grind Stone Anglers planing forms. I intend on purchasing a set myself, because I like the 2.5" centers in the last 30". I have talked to other rod makers who said they made fine rods and were ofvery good value. I am sorry if I have offended anyone or if they had taken my comment the wrong way. My point was that there is a difference between an $800.00 and $400.00 tool. Thanks,Joe from anglport@con2.com Sat Jul 29 15:33:59 2000 e6TKXxG13942 (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE8212520258; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 16:28:50 -0400 Subject: Mikes and calipers and digital and analog BTW, I blew $20.00 on a "digital" micrometer at MSC on a dare. It turnedout to be a mechanical readout "digital", but I'm quite happy with thelittle Dickens! After too many years of squinting at those teeny-tinyhash-marks (had great eyes 'til I hit 47 or 48), I can finally SEE the noseasily. I find that it reads exactly as accurately as the old-fashionedones I have and is a vast improvement over them in ease. I don't know iftheir regular price is much higher than what I paid, but I think I got areal steal, even if they regularly get only $21 for the Dingus!I tried calipers and can't get a decent (repeatable) reading (compared tothe mikes) for love or money. I think it has to do with the narrow facesand a heavy hand on the wheel.All the usual "blah-blah",Art At 08:18 AM 07/29/2000 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Ian Kearney wrote: This discussion on buying forms has made me contemplate the variousitems Ihave in my workshop which have been bought for rodmaking , and notusedmuch... Ian,I agree, digital calipers are worth the price. Especially when youcan geta very good set for $36.75 from Lea Valley Tools, phone 1-800-871-8158;item #88N62.07 No affiliation, etc. Brings up another question I've been thinking about: What the worstmoneyyou folks have spent on rodmaking? I've got LOTS of candidates.... Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Jul 29 15:35:56 2000 e6TKZtG14056 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:35:53 +0200 Subject: Sv: Spey Rod Construction e6TKZuG14057 What You are looking at is a double built rod. Usually the butt piece alonewas built this way, and certainly not all speyrods. The idea is to make the rodmore stiff than a singlebuilt rod. Hoergaard of Norway made single as well as doublebuilt rods. The latterwere much more expensive than the "ordinary" single built rods. Not being a specialist on spey rods I do know though, that the majorityof such rods were single built. Am happy to inform that I am in the process of making ferrules Will keep You informed of its capabilities. regards,Carsten Jorgensen Dania Flyrods Hi all, I've been on this list for a while now, but always as a reader ans found it very educational. Now I have a question to all you fine rod makers. I have been giving a 13' spey rod (Sharpe from Aberdeen Scotland) forrepair and I found something very strange and interesting, to me anyway! The construction of this Sharpe Sprey rod is a rod inside a rod.Anyone know of this type of construction? is it the way all spey rods are built? You will find a picture of a cut section at the following urlhttp://www3.sympatico.ca/marldavies/spey.jpg Thanks MIke ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Jul 29 15:42:51 2000 e6TKgoG14312 NAA28334 Subject: just a note I have not concluded that any of the lower-priced forms are certainly lessadequate. I'm in no position do that. Many of you are using such forms witha great deal of success. This, of course, is great news, particularly forbeginners like myself. Unfortunately, I cannot shop for these forms in person as I would manyother things in life. I am dependent on what each of you has to say and Ivalue your testimonials and suggestions very much. Perhaps it might be feasible to first purchase a lower-priced planing formand get down to business learning how to build cane rods. Later on if andwhen I have been successful, I can discern whether or not there is a moresuitable form and I can make that investment. opinions on what they believe to be the best values for cane rod buildingtools. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Jul 29 15:59:41 2000 e6TKxeG14676 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5B9665A01A6; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 15:59:37 -0500 Subject: Re: just a note Frank,You are right, who of us went out and bought anew Caddy or BMW or a new Harley or Ducati whenwe first got our permits? After you drop the Hondaonce or twice your happy its a Honda andnot an expensive one...same way with forms... hope I have not offended anyone.Brad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: just a note I have not concluded that any of the lower-priced forms are certainly lessadequate. I'm in no position do that. Many of you are using such formswitha great deal of success. This, of course, is great news, particularly forbeginners like myself. Unfortunately, I cannot shop for these forms in person as I would manyother things in life. I am dependent on what each of you has to say and Ivalue your testimonials and suggestions very much. Perhaps it might be feasible to first purchase a lower-priced planing formand get down to business learning how to build cane rods. Later on if andwhen I have been successful, I can discern whether or not there is a moresuitable form and I can make that investment. opinions on what they believe to be the best values for cane rod buildingtools. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 29 16:07:50 2000 e6TL7nG14916 Subject: Re: buying equipment Folks, I'm no machinist. Just a simple hobbyist rodmaker. We strive fortolerances of .001" or less. Many of us never get there. My digital calipersare accurate and repeatable to .0005". I defy anyone hand-planing strips togetso accurate that they need greater accuracy than the +/- .0005" thecaliperswill measure. I just don't believe it can be done.One more thing. No matter what measuring instrument you use, youmustdevise some way to keep from crushing the delicate apex of the strip. BillWaara's little gizmo that John Long sold for a while is one way of doing that.One of the early issues of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" had an interesting article onthe point of measuring accuracy. I don't have it in front of me, but I seem tothink that the author stated that no one, not even the highly trainedspecialists he tested, could consistently get closer than .004" with hand-heldmeasuring devices. Stick with micrometers if you want. I'll measure more quickly, moreeasily, and in all likelihood, at least as accurately. "Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." -- DennisMiller Harry nobler wrote: In a machine shop, the worst buy is a digital caliper ! Ian Kearney wrote: --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from iank@ts.co.nz Sat Jul 29 16:13:43 2000 e6TLDNG15118 with SMTP id JAA24541 for ; Sun, 30 Jul2000 09:12:57 +1200 Subject: kids !!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFFA06.50CCA580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFFA06.50CCA580 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0055_01BFFA06.50CCA580" ------=_NextPart_001_0055_01BFFA06.50CCA580 Guys , I have just got this new computor which does lots of amazing things , = However just as an experiment I thought some of you may be interested in =the attached picture. The trout was caught on a fibreglass spinning rod =and 8 lb nylon. It is a rainbow at 12.96 kgs. e6TMiXG16267 (206.151.76.176) Subject: Re: just a note Here is my .02 cents worth...with all the accuracy that has been discussedlately..digital mics, pretty planing forms and whatnot. Isn't it amazingwhat Garrison did with his crude tools and bent planing form?? from cathcreek@hotmail.com Sat Jul 29 18:34:53 2000 e6TNYqG16965 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 16:34:46 -0700 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 GMT RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: just a note FILETIME=[94B10850:01BFF9B5] To beat a dead horse a bit more. I think you can use expensive or inexpensive equipment and still come up with either a great rod or crappy rod (not for fishing crappie). It depends on you as a maker and what you put into it. I would not like to show off the planing form I made, but it works just fine for me. I think the term "just do it" is the best advise any of us can give. Getting started seams tough, but once you have it isn't so bad. OK, I am back in the garage to plane some. Should be fishing. Also, just my 2 pennies. Rob From: "Larry N. Fraysier" Subject: Re: just a noteDate: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 18:48:39 -0400 Here is my .02 cents worth...with all the accuracy that has been discussedlately..digital mics, pretty planing forms and whatnot. Isn't it amazingwhat Garrison did with his crude tools and bent planing form?? ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from HalManas@aol.com Sat Jul 29 18:41:53 2000 e6TNfqG17145 Subject: Planing forms I have used a planing form from Colorado Bootstrap and I own a planing form that I got from G. Catalano. Both work fine. The one from G. Catalano is longer, looks nicer and is much easier to adjust. It cost $650.00 which is more than some, but less than many. G. Catalano is very pleasant to deal with to boot. I have no financial interest in any of this, etc. Hal from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Jul 29 19:12:51 2000 e6U0CnG17555 Subject: Re: Short rods Bob, Another advantage is that then you do hang up it is at a lower level than a longer rod and so easier to retrieve the fly. This is not such a problem for you but for us short guys it is a certainly an advantage. Mark Cole from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jul 29 20:53:14 2000 e6U1rDG18929 Subject: What makes me mad Organization: GOULD boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01BFF98E.2E41CE00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BFF98E.2E41CE00 Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work bench wrapping a =rod and then when it's finally about done I look down the rod and see =that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat. Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BFF98E.2E41CE00 Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is slaving= work bench wrapping a rod and then when it's finally about done I look = rod and see that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong = Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BFF98E.2E41CE00-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Jul 29 21:08:44 2000 e6U28iG19221 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: What makes me mad BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_OnskLOEr9rvo5nltcw3lbQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_OnskLOEr9rvo5nltcw3lbQ) It could be worse, Ray. You could have discovered the error after finishingthe last coat of varnish on the rod. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: What makes me mad Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work bench wrapping arod and then when it's finally about done I look down the rod and see thatsomehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat. Egads!!Ray --Boundary_(ID_OnskLOEr9rvo5nltcw3lbQ) could be worse, Ray. You could have discovered the error after finishing = Richard GouldSent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 9:53 madHi Gang,You know what makes me mad isslaving = work bench wrapping a rod and then when it's finally about done I look = the rod and see that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the = flat. Egads!!Ray --Boundary_(ID_OnskLOEr9rvo5nltcw3lbQ)-- from trpgo@email.msn.com Sat Jul 29 21:20:17 2000 e6U2KGG19501 SMTPSVC;Sat, 29 Jul 2000 19:19:40 -0700 Subject: Titebond II Extend Glue Some questions from a newbie who is about to glue up his first rod. How much work time (in minutes) do you have before Titebond IIsets up? What is used for clean up for Titebond II Extend glue? Tom from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 29 21:44:16 2000 e6U2iFG19867 Subject: Re: What makes me mad Wow! Never been there and never done that.Long nose Ralph from le_moucheux@hotmail.com Sat Jul 29 22:15:29 2000 e6U3FSG20337 Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:15:22 -0700 Sun, 30 Jul 2000 GMT Subject: Spey rod FILETIME=[65EE9220:01BFF9D4] Thanks for all your answers, it helped me a lot in understanding this. The outer edge is round because the cross cut was taken just in front of the female ferule where the break was. Mike________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from saweiss@flash.net Sat Jul 29 23:24:53 2000 e6U4OqG21153 Subject: Re: What makes me mad boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF9AB.853C2B20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF9AB.853C2B20 Ray,The unwritten rule of rodmaking:There's always a new way to screw something up.Steve Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work bench wrapping =a rod and then when it's finally about done I look down the rod and see =that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat. Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF9AB.853C2B20 Ray,The unwritten rule of rodmaking:There's always a new way to screw something =up.Steve Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad isslaving = work bench wrapping a rod and then when it's finally about done I look = the rod and see that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the = flat. Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFF9AB.853C2B20-- from wiljette@nmia.com Sun Jul 30 00:23:08 2000 e6U5N7G21981 via sendmail with smtp (Smail-3.2.0.106 1999-Mar-31 #3 built 1999-Apr-19) Subject: Re: What makes me mad boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01BFF9B3.F2021C30" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BFF9B3.F2021C30 Ray,Thanks for the message. Makes me feel a little better about putting a =No.2 guide in a spot that was supposed to have a No. 1 guide and not =noticing the error until I am showing the rod to a potential customer. Will Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 7:52 PMSubject: What makes me mad Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work bench wrapping =a rod and then when it's finally about done I look down the rod and see =that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat. Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BFF9B3.F2021C30 Ray,Thanks for the message. Makes me feela = better about putting a No.2 guide in a spot that was supposed to have a = guide and not noticing the error until I am showing the rod to a = customer. Will ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 = PMSubject: What makes me =mad Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad isslaving = work bench wrapping a rod and then when it's finally about done I look = the rod and see that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the = flat. Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01BFF9B3.F2021C30-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jul 30 00:46:28 2000 e6U5kPG22412 Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:46:15 +0800 Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:46:14 +0800 Subject: Re: kids !!! Ian,that pic is obscene, but I like Tony At 09:12 AM 7/30/00 +1200, Ian Kearney wrote: Guys , I have just got this new computor whichdoes lots of amazing things , most of which I do not know how to use andprobably never will. However just as an experiment I thoughtsome of you may be interested in the attached picture. The trout wascaught on a fibreglass spinning rod and 8 lb nylon. It is a rainbow at12.96 kgs. I wish I could say it was typical of myefforts ! Ian Kearney /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: the hub of a the use of the depend on the the hub that is void. advantage is had whatever is there; usefulness arises whatever is not. Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Jul 30 01:31:35 2000 e6U6VYG22977 Subject: Re: buying equipment Date sent: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 15:58:10 -0500Well if anyone is interested heres my 2cents. I make my living as an automotive machinist rebuilding engines all day long,and can tell you that no calipers will be as accurate as a micrometer. BUT, that doesnt mean that you cant do a good job with a caliper either. The trick is in the talent and ability of the user to use his tools the best he knows how, and to strive for the ut-most quality whether it be with a 10$mic or a 200$ caliper. The users ability to use the tool in the same , repeatable fashion, is where his quality will show. I'll bet some of you could turn out a fine rod with a vernier caliper if you wished too and some of us could'nt if we had NASA's budget willl surely follow after.(BTW the reason they put the little clicky thing on the spindle of the mic is for us who can't develope the same "feel" each time, think about that a bit :)Jim Flinchbaugh NW Montana (who is about 1/2 way done building his own planing forms via Tom Penrose instructions, total investment of about 40 bucks ,left me some money for measuring devices :)))) from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Jul 30 04:04:17 2000 e6U94HG24297 Subject: Making like a tree boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFF9E3.9A840920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFF9E3.9A840920 Guys,It's now about 5AM here in Atlanta, and time to close down the old magic =box until I get back from Montana on August 6th. I hope everyone has a =great time over the next week. I'm leaving the mail on so that hopefully =I can catch up on things when I get back. Mike ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFF9E3.9A840920 Guys,It's now about 5AM here in Atlanta, and= close down the old magic box until I get back from Montana on August = everyone has a great time over the next week. I'm leaving the mail on so = hopefully I can catch up on things when I get back. !! Mike ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BFF9E3.9A840920-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 30 04:18:54 2000 e6U9IrG24564 (204.186.33.15) Organization: ProLog Subject: testing Testing from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Jul 30 04:51:31 2000 e6U9pTG24999 Subject: Oxidising Nickel Silver Organization: vet boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFFA5E.874E7900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFFA5E.874E7900 Robert The Kodak stuff is actually (a) Rapid Fixer ND (b) Hardener, and has no =developer in at at all. That is only important in that the fixer is =acidic, while developer is alkaline. I have limited ( but happy ) experience with this process, and if the =fittings are nice and clean, it seems to me that it only takes a few =minutes to achieve a nice deep blue. I don't know about durability, but =did try once to un-blue with steel wool, and that was a bit of a flop; =so I guess it is more durable than usually thought; on the more =practical side, I have some rods, including my two favourites which are =fished quite hard and often, and the finish on those has come through =one and a half seasons unscathed. And, yes, the touch-ups seem to be easy to do, and satisfactory. Don't know about the bond strength, but I carefully mask off the =exterior with masking tape, and block off all the interior surfaces with =Blue Tac, so only tend to blue the bits I want to blue, barring =inaccuracies and sloppiness. Mine get varnished over with the dipping coats. Good luck, Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFFA5E.874E7900 Robert The Kodak stuff is actually (a) Rapid = Hardener, and has no developer in at at all. That is only important in = fixer is acidic, while developer is alkaline. I have limited ( but happy ) experience = only takes a few minutes to achieve a nice deep blue. I don't know about = durability, but did try once to un-blue with steel wool, and that was a = flop; so I guess it is more durable than usually thought; on the more = side, I have some rods, including my two favourites which are fished = and often, and the finish on those has come through one and a half = unscathed. And, yes, the touch-ups seem to beeasy = satisfactory. Don't know about the bond strength, = carefully mask off the exterior with masking tape, and block off all the = interior surfaces with Blue Tac, so only tend to blue the bits I want to = barring inaccuracies and sloppiness. Mine get varnished over with the = coats. Good luck, Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BFFA5E.874E7900-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 30 08:19:18 2000 e6UDJHG27315 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:17:58 -0500 Subject: Re: buying equipment Well said. Talent always rises to the top ! I have dial calipers all over the shop, and use them in roughing out partsall the time. When I have to hold .0001", the B&S mics come out ! This is onmetal though, as in a diamond tool cutting a piston, or in making a maleferrule that will fit a female. Getting consistent readings is the secret. I certainly meant no offense, but hand pressure alone can cause allot ofvariation in caliper readings, when working with metal in particular. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: buying equipment Date sent: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 15:58:10 -0500Well if anyone is interested heres my 2cents. I make my living asan automotive machinist rebuilding engines all day long,and cantell you that no calipers will be as accurate as a micrometer. BUT,that doesnt mean that you cant do a good job with a caliper either.The trick is in the talent and ability of the user to use his tools thebest he knows how, and to strive for the ut-most quality whether itbe with a 10$mic or a 200$ caliper. The users ability to use the toolin the same , repeatable fashion, is where his quality will show. I'llbet some of you could turn out a fine rod with a vernier caliper ifyou wished too and some of us could'nt if we had NASA's budget willl surely follow after.(BTW the reason they put the little clickything on the spindle of the mic is for us who can't develope thesame "feel" each time, think about that a bit :)Jim FlinchbaughNW Montana(who is about 1/2 way done building his own planing forms via TomPenrose instructions, total investment of about 40 bucks ,left mesome money for measuring devices :)))) from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 30 08:38:12 2000 e6UDcBG27857 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:36:54 -0500 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Oxidising Nickel Silver Perhaps the 8 hours time in the bath, is to keep the oxidation from comingoff easily, when such things As epoxy is removed ? Personally, I'd not wantany finish that has to have a coating to protect it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Oxidising Nickel Silver Robert The Kodak stuff is actually (a) Rapid Fixer ND (b) Hardener, and has nodeveloper in at at all. That is only important in that the fixer is acidic,while developer is alkaline. I have limited ( but happy ) experience with this process, and if thefittings are nice and clean, it seems to me that it only takes a fewminutes to achieve a nice deep blue. I don't know about durability, but didtry once to un- blue with steel wool, and that was a bit of a flop; so Iguess it is more durable than usually thought; on the more practical side, Ihave some rods, including my two favourites which are fished quite hard andoften, and the finish on those has come through one and a half seasonsunscathed. And, yes, the touch-ups seem to be easy to do, and satisfactory. Don't know about the bond strength, but I carefully mask off the exteriorwith masking tape, and block off all the interior surfaces with Blue Tac, soonly tend to blue the bits I want to blue, barring inaccuracies andsloppiness. Mine get varnished over with the dipping coats. Good luck, Peter from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 30 09:26:36 2000 e6UEQZG28522 (204.186.33.166) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: bluing ferrules marty wrote: I use Birchwood Casey's Brass Black. Polish ferrules with 0000 steelwool, clean with alchohol rinse with water, apply with Qtip, finishpolish with tissue followed by a coat of laquer. If you have troublewith the bluing "taking" heat the ferrule slightly over a heat gun. Itape the male and keep the female upside down. Marty D. from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jul 30 09:59:17 2000 e6UExGG29337 (5.0.2195) Subject: Re: Planing forms Hal I have noticed one thing about planing forms - they are not gettingany cheaper - I can sell any of my forms for what I paid for them. They arenot adepreciating asset unless you really screw them up. It is something to thinkabout when you buy - they will keep their value. A Catalano form for $650 today is a good price - wanna sell?! Chris On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 19:41:44 EDT, HalManas@aol.com wrote: I have used a planing form from Colorado Bootstrap and I own a planingform that I got from G. Catalano. Both work fine. The one from G. Catalano is longer, looks nicer and is much easier to adjust. It cost $650.00 which is more than some, but less than many. G. Catalano is very pleasant to deal with to boot. I have no financial interest in any of this, etc. Hal from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jul 30 10:20:49 2000 e6UFKmG29904 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Buying equipment Friends, I'll confess, I'm becoming a little bit of a curmudgeon. I liketo try to help rodmaking seem less difficult, not more difficult. Manybeginners are overwhelmed with the seeming technical nature ofrodmaking. No one has to make this task seem more difficult. That'salready been done - Garrison did that quite well. Just the idea ofprecision scares lots of folks away.Today I try to answer lots of the questions that beginnerspose. Back when I started, this list was a tremendous help to me (as itstill is!). Perhaps the biggest help of all was the encouragement I got from folks like Wayne and Tony and Darryl and others too numerous tomention. That encouragement gave me the little boost I needed to get meout in the shop, actually making shavings --- instead of sitting aroundmarveling at the abilities of those who did.If I came on too strong with my opinions, then I apologize. Allmy ranting and raving is done with the intention of making thingssimpler and more fun, not more difficult and tedious. Harry Boyd from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 30 10:24:08 2000 e6UFO6G00151 (204.186.33.66) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Planing forms I use a Bellinger form purchased thru GW. He uses 1.25" thick steelinstead of the usual .75". Also the form is 6' long (1 pc. rods). I useit along with one I made of brass some years ago. Both are extremelyaccurate. The Bellenger is very pricey though and I am not crazy aboutRuss at GW having a monopoly on the thing. Planing forms however arelike bicycles "its not the bike that counts but the motor" . Marty Hal I have noticed one thing about planing forms - they are not gettingany cheaper - I can sell any of my forms for what I paid for them. They arenot adepreciating asset unless you really screw them up. It is something tothinkabout when you buy - they will keep their value. A Catalano form for $650today is a good price - wanna sell?! Chris On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 19:41:44 EDT, HalManas@aol.com wrote: I have used a planing form from Colorado Bootstrap and I own a planingformthat I got from G. Catalano. Both work fine. The one from G. Catalano islonger, looks nicer and is much easier to adjust. It cost $650.00 which ismore than some, but less than many. G. Catalano is very pleasant to dealwith to boot. I have no financial interest in any of this, etc. Hal from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sun Jul 30 10:49:59 2000 e6UFnwG00637 IAA27883 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Aren't the Bellinger "hex" forms at Golden Witch, Bellinger Forms? anyway, I've been looking at this form. It seems to be a high quality form,has the "hex head shoulder bolts( which I prefer), and is ready to use( alsoakey feature-I don't want to purchase a planing form and have to work on itto use it, save the inevitable user blemishes) --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from rmoon@ida.net Sun Jul 30 11:15:51 2000 e6UGFiG01028 Subject: FFF Conclave. The FF. Conclave begins Tomorrow at Livingston, but the public portionof the affair does not start until Thursday Morning. I have beengraciously offered a booth at Conclave to serve as an information andgathering point for those interested in bamboo. Please any of you whoare planning to attend please find time to come to booth #61 and me meand other colleagues, see some classy rods, and spin some tall tales.Again if any of you would like to bring anything besides yourself(rods, equipment etc.) you are more than welcome. You may even get achance to cast that 6" #4 of Bob Nunleys. I hope to have my 7' onepiece spiral, and how about a monster Winston made by Lew Stoner forMyron Gregory. Puts those little spey rods to shame. Hope to see youall Ralph from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Jul 30 12:38:58 2000 e6UHcvG02162 MAA12851 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:38:57 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id MAA20532 for Subject: Crushing the apex (was Re: buying equipment) I tried to devise a way to keep from crushing the apex of the strip during measuring (by some kind of attachment with a 60 degree groove), and what I discovered is that, unless your cane angle is dead-on 60 degrees, you can get a far bigger error than you got without the attachment. You can work out the geometry yourself, What I concluded is that with my bare caliper I crush the apex by about0.001. So I allow for that and forge ahead. Obviously many others take accurate measurement more seriously than I.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 29 Jul 2000, Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, One more thing. No matter what measuring instrument you use, youmustdevise some way to keep from crushing the delicate apex of the strip. BillWaara's little gizmo that John Long sold for a while is one way of doingthat. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jul 30 13:24:03 2000 e6UIO2G02815 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Crushing the apex (was Re: buying equipment) After reading the article in the Planing Form about the difficulty ofaccurately measuring strips without crushing the apex, I switched to adifferent method of measuring:1. I set the forms as accurately as possible and plane the strips untilflush.2. I then mark the five-inch form stations with a pencil on one butt stripand one tip strip.3. I then assemble the strips together and pass them through the binderunder high tension (without glue).4. I then use my digital caliper to measure every 5-inch station across thethree pairs of flats. Although the blank is bound, it is still possible tofind bare sections to measure the blank. Since I'm measuring flats, notapexes, the measurement is more precise and easier to take with a caliper.5. I then mark on the stations of the various flats if and where the stripsare oversized and by what amount. (For example: +.004)6. I then remove the binding cord, return to my planing forms, make theadjustments to the settings, and plane a couple more passes before gluing. In my experience, this is a much faster and more precise method of workingthan measuring individual stations on a strip. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 1:39 PM Subject: Crushing the apex (was Re: buying equipment) I tried to devise a way to keep from crushing the apex of thestrip during measuring (by some kind of attachment with a 60 degreegroove), and what I discovered is that, unless your cane angle isdead-on 60 degrees, you can get a far bigger error than you gotwithout the attachment. You can work out the geometry yourself, What I concluded is that with my bare caliper I crush the apex byabout 0.001. So I allow for that and forge ahead. Obviously manyothers take accurate measurement more seriously than I.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 29 Jul 2000, Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, One more thing. No matter what measuringinstrument you use, you mustdevise some way to keep from crushing the delicate apex ofthe strip. BillWaara's little gizmo that John Long sold for a while is oneway of doing that. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Jul 30 18:32:24 2000 e6UNWNG06609 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: kids !!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFFA43.AAEBDBC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFFA43.AAEBDBC0 WOW! Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 2:13 PM Subject: kids !!! Guys , I have just got this new computor which does lots of amazing things , mostof which I do not know how to use and probably never will. However just as an experiment I thought some of you may be interested inthe attached picture. The trout was caught on a fibreglass spinning rod and8 lb nylon. It is a rainbow at 12.96 kgs. I wish I could say it was typical of my efforts ! Ian Kearney ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFFA43.AAEBDBC0 Darrell KearneySent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 2:13 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: kids =!!!Guys , I have just got this new computor = of amazing things , most of which I do not know how to use and = will. However just as an experiment I = you may be interested in the attached picture. The trout was caught on = kgs. I wish I could say it was typical of = ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFFA43.AAEBDBC0-- from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Jul 30 19:35:13 2000 e6V0ZCG07535 Subject: Kingfisher Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFA4C.F9CD40E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFA4C.F9CD40E0 A little help please. I've been handed a Kingfisher Rod to do a bit of =repair to. The rod's in pretty good shape - handle and ferrules loose, =but the underlying fit seems ok. Ferrules definitely not Super Z class =but not too bad either. No glue lines although the surface of the cane =has some unleveled spots in the butt section. Flamed with the wraps and =varnish in good shape. Garrision node stagger although one spot has two =nodes next to each other. All sections straight with even tips. One tip =and the stripper are of something that I first took for agate, but, on =closer exam, does not have any uneven-ness to the color - I'm guessing a =composite of some kind. Original decal on rod but no line size shown. =Cloth rod bag has label which is missing part of what I'm guessing is =the line size - numbers left are ???09 3/4 - 1072 9'. I don't know =anything about Kingfisher Rods - I'm guessing Japanese and something =along the lines of a 7 weight. Can any of you help identify line size = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFA4C.F9CD40E0 Gents, A little help please. I've been handed = Rod to do a bit of repair to. The rod's in pretty good shape - handle = ferrules loose, but the underlying fit seems ok. Ferrules definitely not = class but not too bad either. No glue lines although the surface of the = some unleveled spots in the butt section. Flamed with the wraps and = good shape. Garrision node stagger although one spot has two nodes next = other. All sections straight with even tips. One tip and the stripper = something that I first took for agate, but, on closer exam, does = any uneven-ness to the color - I'm guessing a composite of some kind. = decal on rod but no line size shown. Cloth rod bag has label which is = part of what I'm guessing is the line size - numbers left are ???09 3/4 = 9'. I don't know anything about Kingfisher Rods - I'm guessing Japanese = something along the lines of a 7 weight. Can any of you help identify = and approximate value? Thanks, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFA4C.F9CD40E0-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 30 19:44:55 2000 e6V0itG07790 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Sir D boundary="=====================_7801276==_.ALT" --=====================_7801276==_.ALT I finally cast the first of the Sir D's I made this month, this was a blonde, internally flamed ala Darryl, hex version. What a fantastic action! It is so light and crisp feeling, and it handled very nicely with a Triangle Taper 3/4. It was very accurate within the 40' or so test casts I tried with my taped on grip and the reel in my pocket. Some kids walked by and looked at me like I was the freakiest thing they had seen in years. Actually, that's normal now that I think of it.I still love my Driggs, but this is different and equally good. I am ferruling the quad version I made, and I can't wait to try that. I will let you know how it turns out. I did it with the same settings so that I could compare the hex and quad actions. I suppose the quad may turn out quite a bit stouter.Thanks Wayne for the great taper and to Darryl for his innovative ideas. Also thanks to Tony Spezio who unknowingly spurred me on to build this taper. When he and I were e-mailing about rod tubes, Tony mentioned that he had ordered 10 tubes for the 10 Sir Ds he made. I figured if he is making them in batches of 10, they must be nice!Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_7801276==_.ALT I finally cast the first of the Sir D's I made this month,this was a blonde, internally flamed ala Darryl, hex version. What afantastic action! It is so light and crisp feeling, and it handled verynicely with a Triangle Taper 3/4. It was very accurate within the 40' orso test casts I tried with my taped on grip and the reel in my pocket.Some kids walked by and looked at me like I was the freakiest thing theyhad seen in years. Actually, that's normal now that I think of it.I still love my Driggs, but this is different and equally good. I amferruling the quad version I made, and I can't wait to try that. I willlet you know how it turns out. I did it with the same settings so that Icould compare the hex and quad actions. I suppose the quad may turn outquite a bit stouter.Thanks Wayne for the great taper and to Darryl for his innovative this taper. When he and I were e-mailing about rod tubes, Tony mentionedthat he had ordered 10 tubes for the 10 Sir Ds he made. I figured if heis making them in batches of 10, they must be nice! Best regards, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_7801276==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Jul 30 20:10:22 2000 e6V1ALG08185 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:08:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Kingfisher Rod I know they were made by either H-I or Montague, but can't recall which.It's in Sinclair's book I think. If it has necked down ferrules, it's byMontague. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Kingfisher Rod Gents, A little help please. I've been handed a Kingfisher Rod to do a bit ofrepair to. The rod's in pretty good shape - handle and ferrules loose, butthe underlying fit seems ok. Ferrules definitely not Super Z class but nottoo bad either. No glue lines although the surface of the cane has someunleveled spots in the butt section. Flamed with the wraps and varnish ingood shape. Garrision node stagger although one spot has two nodes next toeach other. All sections straight with even tips. One tip and the stripperare of something that I first took for agate, but, on closer exam, does nothave any uneven-ness to the color - I'm guessing a composite of some kind.Original decal on rod but no line size shown. Cloth rod bag has label whichis missing part of what I'm guessing is the line size - numbers left are???09 3/4 - 1072 9'. I don't know anything about Kingfisher Rods - I'mguessing Japanese and something along the lines of a 7 weight. Can any ofyou help identify line size and approximate value? Thanks,Jim from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jul 30 21:29:11 2000 e6V2TAG09412 Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:29:05 -0700 Subject: Quality forms Freinds,Here I am, apologizing again. Someone on this listforwarded one of my recent posts to one of the fine rod andtool makers I mentioned in that post. He took great offenseat what I said. For that, I am truly apologetic.Those who make rods and the finest tools forrodmaking deserve all our support and respect. Some of thefine tools that are available today are things of joy andbeauty. I appreciate those who make great tools. For that,we should all be grateful. The same is true for thosesolitary craftsmen who try to make a decent wage making rodsand tools. In the long run, they make things easier andbetter for all of us. And I am grateful for them.I did not mean to imply that any old hack with amill file and a drill can make forms that are the equal ofthe finest tools available today. That's not true. And itis also not true that the forms I made for myself are asnice as those top of the line forms available today. But myself-made forms are square. The grooves are consistent.And they enable me to make a fairly decent rod.If you can afford top of the line stuff, by allmeans go for it. It will make rodmaking both morepleasurable and more simple. I hope to get there myselfsomeday soon.Oh, one more thing: I do not appreciatetattle-tales. I don't know who forwarded my posts, but ifyou're going to quote me, please include each and everysingle post in the entire thread being discussed. Theselittle electronic boxes are wonderful. They allow us tocommunicate across the miles with the push of a button. Butthey also easily lend themselves to miscommunication andmisunderstanding.Again, my sincere apologies to anyone who took mycomments as offensive and denigrating. That wasn't myintention. Harry Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 30 21:31:10 2000 e6V2VAG09556 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Sir D boundary="=====================_14174646==_.ALT" --=====================_14174646==_.ALT I flamed the culm lightly on the pith side as Darryl had mentioned trying a while back. Works great as far as I can tell. I have tried it on three rods, and no one has reported them worse for wear. I know it sounds quite scandalous, but I pass the torch lightly through the inside and move it across the culm. It flares up the sides and blackens the pith. I can tell that the blond rods seem a tad stiffer, but it may just be my imagination.Best regards,Bob At 07:06 PM 7/30/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:blonde, internally flamed ala Darryl, hex version. bob, what is internally flamed? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_14174646==_.ALT I flamed the culm lightly on the pith side as Darryl had mentioned tryinga while back. Works great as far as I can tell. I have tried it on threerods, and no one has reported them worse for wear. I know it sounds quitescandalous, but I pass the torch lightly through the inside and move itacross the culm. It flares up the sides and blackens the pith. I can tellthat the blond rods seem a tad stiffer, but it may just be myimagination.Best regards,Bob At 07:06 PM 7/30/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote: version. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_14174646==_.ALT-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 30 21:35:29 2000 e6V2ZSG09761 (204.186.211.31) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Kingfisher Rod marty wrote: Kingfisher rods were sold in Philadelphia by a tackle house called E KTryon. They were made in the USA by either Heddon or Montague. Theynever showed line sizes as the are early rods and they figured thefisherman would be smart enough to figure that out for themselves. Valuedepends on weather it's a Monty or Heddon. A 9'er of either is notworth much $80-$200. Marty D. Gents, A little help please. I've been handed a Kingfisher Rod to do a bit ofrepair to. The rod's in pretty good shape - handle and ferrules loose,but the underlying fit seems ok. Ferrules definitely not Super Z classbut not too bad either. No glue lines although the surface of the canehas some unleveled spots in the butt section. Flamed with the wrapsand varnish in good shape. Garrision node stagger although one spothas two nodes next to each other. All sections straight with eventips. One tip and the stripper are of something that I first took foragate, but, on closer exam, does not have any uneven-ness to the color- I'm guessing a composite of some kind. Original decal on rod but noline size shown. Cloth rod bag has label which is missing part of whatI'm guessing is the line size - numbers left are ???09 3/4 - 1072 9'.I don't know anything about Kingfisher Rods - I'm guessing Japaneseand something along the lines of a 7 weight. Can any of you help Thanks,Jim from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Jul 30 22:26:20 2000 e6V3QKG10603 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Kingfisher Rod To add to the Kingfisher confusion, I believe that EW Edwards may have made some rods for Tryon under theKingfisher brand... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Kingfisher Rod marty wrote: Kingfisher rods were sold in Philadelphia by a tackle house called E KTryon. They were made in the USA by either Heddon or Montague. Theynever showed line sizes as the are early rods and they figured thefisherman would be smart enough to figure that out for themselves. Valuedepends on weather it's a Monty or Heddon. A 9'er of either is notworth much $80-$200. Marty D. Gents, A little help please. I've been handed a Kingfisher Rod to do a bit ofrepair to. The rod's in pretty good shape - handle and ferrules loose,but the underlying fit seems ok. Ferrules definitely not Super Z classbut not too bad either. No glue lines although the surface of the canehas some unleveled spots in the butt section. Flamed with the wrapsand varnish in good shape. Garrision node stagger although one spothas two nodes next to each other. All sections straight with eventips. One tip and the stripper are of something that I first took foragate, but, on closer exam, does not have any uneven-ness to the color- I'm guessing a composite of some kind. Original decal on rod but noline size shown. Cloth rod bag has label which is missing part of whatI'm guessing is the line size - numbers left are ???09 3/4 - 1072 9'.I don't know anything about Kingfisher Rods - I'm guessing Japaneseand something along the lines of a 7 weight. Can any of you help Thanks,Jim from timklein@uswest.net Sun Jul 30 22:27:45 2000 e6V3RiG10701 (63.225.241.212) Subject: Re: buying equipment I'm no machinist. Just a simple hobbyist rodmaker. We strive fortolerances of .001" or less. Many of us never get there. My digitalcalipersare accurate and repeatable to .0005". I defy anyone hand-planing stripsto getso accurate that they need greater accuracy than the +/- .0005" thecaliperswill measure. I just don't believe it can be done. I couldn't agree with you more Harry. I've got a relatively cheap set of digital calipers (Chicago Brand - costless than $35.00) and a Mitutoyo micrometer that cost around $100.00. Ihaveaccess to traceable reference standards where I work, and I've checked bothtools; They're accurate to less than .001" which is plenty accurate forrodmaking in my book. I've used both at different times and have finally settled on the calipersbecause they are much easier to handle and read. I wouldn't hesitate to useeither. ---Tim from timklein@uswest.net Sun Jul 30 22:53:44 2000 e6V3rhG11233 (63.225.241.212) Subject: Re: buying equipment Brings up another question I've been thinking about: What the worstmoneyyou folks have spent on rodmaking? I've got LOTS of candidates.... I'd be interested in hearing some of these Harry! I don't have a lot, though when I was starting out I bought some tools thatseemed right at the time but ultimately proved worthless; A drill guide tohelp make forms ($30.00 and wasn't accurate enough), A cheap import blockplane (throat was HUGE and wasn't adjustable - caused horrible lifting atthe nodes), A whole bunch of shoulder bolts (around 4 bucks a pop for steelforms I never made). (anyone interested in any of these items? I'll sell them cheap! ;-) The one that probably bugged me the most was a base I bought for a dialindicator. I had made one out of wood that worked just fine, but I decidedto buy a metal one for some reason. The damn thing was a tiny little hunk ofcold rolled with burrs all around the bottom edge. It wasn't flat so I hadto grind it and when the hole was drilled through the center, the drillhadn't been allowed to go all the way through the metal. This caused an eggshaped hole on one end. Of course it had been drilled from bottom to top somy indicator didn't fit. I tried turning it over, but the set screw was atthe other end so that didn't work. Paid $15.00 for the piece of crap. It wasn't that big a deal to fix it, but for 15 bucks.... (yep, I clamped it in my vise and finally got a chance to use that drillguide I bought...) ---Tim from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Jul 30 23:00:36 2000 e6V40ZG11487 21:08:19 PDT Subject: Re: buying equipment i have wasted the most money on sharpening supplies. timothy --- Tim Klein wrote:Brings up another question I've been thinkingabout: What the worstmoneyyou folks have spent on rodmaking? I've got LOTSof candidates.... ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from timklein@uswest.net Sun Jul 30 23:07:14 2000 e6V47DG11686 (63.225.241.212) Subject: Re: Splitting - Richard and Bob Sounds like a neat little invention you had for roughing. I trulyenvy theability some of you guys have for seeing a problem and devising asolution. Isuspect you've got other neat ideas tucked away, huh? Tell us about someofthem. Sorry Harry, nothing else jumps to mind. I spend a lot of time making nicelittle holders and doodads for my tools but the roughing jig was the onlyreally useful thing that was out of the ordinary. The thing that prompted it was a set of wood final forms that I screwed upwhile making the groove. By not having my 60 degree bit perfectly squaredtothe forms, I wound up with a worthless form that gave me horrible glue linesand an inconsistent oval cross section. When I finally realized that my groove was bad, it prompted me to try tomake a cutting tool with a 60 degree cutting surface. I screwed around withit for quite a while before coming up with my rather half-assed solution.Considering the elegance and simplicity of Tom's tool, my efforts make mefeel a little stupid rather than proud. ---Tim from saweiss@flash.net Sun Jul 30 23:41:32 2000 e6V4fVG12383 Subject: Re: Sir D boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFFA77.1460BE80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFFA77.1460BE80 Doesn't Darryl use a heat gun on the inside? That sticks in my mind. I'd =have to go back and review the archives again to be sure.Steve I flamed the culm lightly on the pith side as Darryl had mentioned =trying a while back. Works great as far as I can tell. I have tried it =on three rods, and no one has reported them worse for wear. I know it =sounds quite scandalous, but I pass the torch lightly through the inside =and move it across the culm. It flares up the sides and blackens the =pith. I can tell that the blond rods seem a tad stiffer, but it may just =be my imagination.Best regards,Bob At 07:06 PM 7/30/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote: blonde, internally flamed ala Darryl, hex version. bob, what is internally flamed? timothy =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D"Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFFA77.1460BE80 Doesn't Darryl use a heat gun onthe = That sticks in my mind. I'd have to go back and review the archives = sure.Steve I flamed the culm lightly on the pith side as Darryl had mentioned = while back. Works great as far as I can tell. I have tried it on three = no one has reported them worse for wear. I know it sounds quite = I pass the torch lightly through the inside and move it across the culm. = flares up the sides and blackens the pith. I can tell that the blond = regards,BobAt 07:06 PM 7/30/00 -0700, timothy wrote: =bear"__________________________________________________Do= Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ = =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Ddownandacross.com bob@downandacross.com = ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFFA77.1460BE80-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 31 06:13:37 2000 e6VBDbG16299 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:14:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Sir D What's the reasoning behind flaming the pith side ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Sir D I flamed the culm lightly on the pith side as Darryl had mentioned tryingawhile back. Works great as far as I can tell. I have tried it on threerods, and no one has reported them worse for wear. I know it sounds quitescandalous, but I pass the torch lightly through the inside and move itacross the culm. It flares up the sides and blackens the pith. I can tellthat the blond rods seem a tad stiffer, but it may just be my imagination.Best regards,Bob At 07:06 PM 7/30/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:blonde, internally flamed ala Darryl, hex version. bob, what is internally flamed? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 31 09:02:08 2000 e6VE27G19291 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Sir D I think he did mention switching to the heat gun after a bit. I don't know, maybe he will get in and share his experiences if any are interested.The purpose, for those who asked, is to tempered the rod a bit more just as outside (enamel) flaming does. I would guess that the most precious power fibers are closer to the enamel anyway.Bob At 10:39 PM 7/30/00 -0600, you wrote:Doesn't Darryl use a heat gun on the inside? That sticks in my mind. I'd have to go back and review the archives again to be sure.Steve I flamed the culm lightly on the pith side as Darryl had mentioned trying a while back. Works great as far as I can tell. I have tried it on three rods, and no one has reported them worse for wear. I know it sounds quite scandalous, but I pass the torch lightly through the inside and move it across the culm. It flares up the sides and blackens the pith. I can tell that the blond rods seem a tad stiffer, but it may just be my imagination.Best regards,Bob At 07:06 PM 7/30/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:blonde, internally flamed ala Darryl, hex version. bob, what is internally flamed? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Jul 31 09:17:21 2000 e6VEHJG19796 Jul 2000 10:17:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Sir D As in most things I do heat gunning the pith side has progressed - to flamingthe pith side with a propane torch. I found that you can get the benifits offlaming, that is the stiffer action, with the outside remaining blonde in color.I find I have to aggressively flame the pith side if I am not going to do anyother heat treatment. I also use a wire brush to clean off the pith ash or youend up looking like a chimney sweep when you start planing.Darryl from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Mon Jul 31 09:26:58 2000 e6VEQwG20271 Subject: Re: Quality forms Harry Boyd seez... Here I am, apologizing again. ... I just don't understand what it is about some people that make folks likeHarry Boyd, and many others on this list feel like they have to apologize all benefited from folks like Harry, who offer their time to help others.If these people continually get beat up on for just trying to help, howlong do you think they will be around. For you long time list members,just think back to many folks who we have lost to just this kind oftreatment. Please, before jumping all over someone, take a moment to consider thespirit in which the person intended the post... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Mon Jul 31 09:31:06 2000 e6VEV6G20503 Subject: Re: Quality forms I second what Mike Biondo says in regards to Harry's apology. There isno need for it. Harry, you keep up the good post, and everyone will learn a thing ortwo about rod building. I for one appreciate everything you have postedsince I got on this list about a year ago. Regards, Kevin BuchananST. Louis, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jul 31 10:56:40 2000 e6VFudG23419 Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:56:34 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Quality forms Kevin and Mike,C'mon guys!! Y'all know me well enough to figure out that I'm notabout to shut up or to take my laptop and go home. I'm far too egotistical This list is the most well-mannered, well-behaved group of people ofwhich I'm a part. Including the Church I serve!! I've got deacons who talkto me far more harshly than any of you ever have. The vast majority ofwhatis posted here is helpful, entertaining, and informative. There's a very,very small percentage of posts here that are intended to be mean-spiritedand ugly. In today's world, I'll gladly live with that.Let me assure all of you that the party who was offended andinsulted by my post had only read part of the thread. He and I have notonly settled our differences, we have become friendly. I have invited himto the Southern Rodmakers Gathering for, in the immortal words of Flatt andScruggs, " a heapin' helpin' of our hospitality". (Beverly Hillbilly'stheme song) Let's end this here, okay? Harry "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote: I second what Mike Biondo says in regards to Harry's apology. There isno need for it. Harry, you keep up the good post, and everyone will learn a thing ortwo about rod building. I for one appreciate everything you have postedsince I got on this list about a year ago. Regards, Kevin BuchananST. Louis, MO from sf_saez@email.msn.com Mon Jul 31 11:13:38 2000 e6VGDbG24370 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:12:56 -0700 Subject: PHY Para 15 silk line rating Does anyone have the original silk line recommendation for the Paul YoungPara 15 taper? Through Reed Curry's excellent advice, I've managed to findand restore some old silk lines. Once I finish the rod, I would like tomatch it with one of these old lines. I've also started a rod for aDickerson 8014 taper and have found that Dickerson recommended a C silkline best way to determine what kind of action the designer had in mind for thetaper. The book "Dickerson: The Man and His Rods" from Centennial Publications hascopies of his 1938 and 1947 catalogues. For the silk line enthusiasts outthere, below is a list of Dickerson rod models and the line recommendations.Some models do have different line ratings in the two catalogues. If youlook in Jack Howell's book, The Lovely Reed, you'll see that Dickersonchanged tapers on the same rod model over time. It also interesting to notethat he did not specify any tapered lines. Given his integrity and the factthat the people who bought his rods could probably afford a tapered silklines, I don't think it was a "marketing ploy". If anyone can shed light onthe level line recommendation, it would be greatly appreciated. 1938 Catalog:761510 => E801510 => D801611 => D861711 => D861812 => C901711 => D901812 => C961812 => D961913 => C102013 => C7011 => E7612 => E8013 => D8614 => D9015 => C 1947 Catalog:761510 => D801510 => D861711 => C901711 => D901812 => C961812 => C961913 => C7612 => D8013 => D8014 => C8614 => C from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 31 12:06:47 2000 e6VH6kG26254 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Quality forms boundary="=====================_16878584==_.ALT" --=====================_16878584==_.ALT Harry:I whole heartily agree with what you wrote below. It is way too easy to take things the wrong way, miss the previous dialogue, etc... It is also way too easy to flame someone with no fear. We need to remember thatthere is really flesh and bones typing away at the keys.I really wish that the maker would post his view point to the list about tools and all aspects of rod building. We need more from the trenches input, and I would love to see what a top notch maker has to say about our little discourse here. I would guess that most of the full time makers are too busy to do so, and that is why they are making it. Less talk, more rods and business stuff.Your comments were your opinion and you eloquently laid out your stance. Maybe we need to have a subtitle to the Rodmakers Listserve: "Where we agree to disagree." Too bad this thread went bad. I look forward to your opinion, keep giving it.Best regards,Bob Oh, one more thing: I do not appreciatetattle-tales. I don't know who forwarded my posts, but ifyou're going to quote me, please include each and everysingle post in the entire thread being discussed. Theselittle electronic boxes are wonderful. They allow us tocommunicate across the miles with the push of a button. Butthey also easily lend themselves to miscommunication andmisunderstanding. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_16878584==_.ALT Harry:I whole heartily agree with what you wrote below. It is way too easy totake things the wrong way, miss the previous dialogue, etc... It is alsoway too easy to flame someone with no fear. We need to remember thatthere is really flesh and bones typing away at the keys.I really wish that the maker would post his view point to the list abouttools and all aspects of rod building. We need more from the trenchesinput, and I would love to see what a top notch maker has to say aboutour little discourse here. I would guess that most of the full timemakers are too busy to do so, and that is why they are making it. Lesstalk, more rods and business stuff.Your comments were your opinion and you eloquently laid out your stance.Maybe we need to have a subtitle to the Rodmakers Listserve: "Wherewe agree to disagree." Too bad this thread went bad. I look forwardto your opinion, keep giving it.Best regards,Bob appreciate you're going to quote me, please include each and every they also easily lend themselves to miscommunication andmisunderstanding. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_16878584==_.ALT-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 31 12:33:19 2000 e6VHXIG27174 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:33:16 +0200 Subject: Sv: PHY Para 15 silk line rating e6VHXIG27175 Yet again I consult my 1956 PHY catalog and behold, the answer to thequestion is there. regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: PHY Para 15 silk line rating Does anyone have the original silk line recommendation for the Paul YoungPara 15 taper? etc.etc. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Jul 31 13:18:06 2000 e6VII5G28564 0400 Subject: Scrapers boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BFFB1C.AF55743A" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFB1C.AF55743A Perhaps I should have checked the archives on this one, but I amcurious to hear from anyone that has tried a scraper plane to get tofinal strip dimensions. Is it really better than using a good standardangle plane with a good sharp blade for the whole job? Thanks, Andy ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFB1C.AF55743A Scrapers Perhaps I should have checked the archives on this =one, but I am curious to hear from anyone that has tried a scraper =plane to get to final strip dimensions. Is it really better than using =a good standard angle plane with a good sharp blade for the whole job? = ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFB1C.AF55743A-- from stuart.rod@gmx.de Mon Jul 31 13:20:09 2000 e6VIK8G28783 (62.180.28.101) Subject: Accuracy Good evening everybody, All this talk about accurate measurements reminded me that FrankNeunemann has just posted a new article by himself & John Bokstrom onhis Web Page. They also suggest a way to reach accurate measurementsusing the planing form as a "Waara gauge" replacement. Interestingreading. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.html and look under Articles Stuart from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 31 14:12:51 2000 e6VJCpG00601 Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:12:42 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Scrapers boundary="------------3BFE5071EEE69D4279BC2222" --------------3BFE5071EEE69D4279BC2222 Andrew,myself, and at least one other guy, he knows who he is;^) on here use a single edged razor blade in a retractable holder as acheap alternative to a bodied scraper or cabinet scraper for finaltweaking. It works marvelously! Shawn"Harsanyi, Andrew" wrote: Perhaps I should have checked the archives on this one, but I amcurious to hear from anyone that has tried a scraper plane to get tofinal strip dimensions. Is it really better than using a good standardangle plane with a good sharp blade for the whole job? Thanks, Andy --------------3BFE5071EEE69D4279BC2222 Andrew, use a single edged razor blade in a retractable holder as a cheap alternativeto a bodied scraper or cabinet scraper for final tweaking. It works Shawn"Harsanyi, Andrew" wrote: Perhaps I should have checked the archives on this one,but I am curious to hear from anyone that has tried a scraper plane toget to final strip dimensions. Is it really better than using a good standardangle plane with a good sharp blade for the whole job?Thanks, Andy --------------3BFE5071EEE69D4279BC2222-- from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 31 14:23:01 2000 e6VJMxG01033 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with SMTP ;Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:22:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Crushing the apex (was Re: buying equipment) I saw a mic in the MSC catalog with a 60* anvil but don't know if it couldbe used for rod building. One drawback is that the damn thing also costs acouple hundred dollars. Must be a pretty good tool. Jack -----Original Message----- Subject: Crushing the apex (was Re: buying equipment) I tried to devise a way to keep from crushing the apex of thestrip during measuring (by some kind of attachment with a 60 degreegroove), and what I discovered is that, unless your cane angle isdead-on 60 degrees, you can get a far bigger error than you gotwithout the attachment. You can work out the geometry yourself, What I concluded is that with my bare caliper I crush the apex byabout 0.001. So I allow for that and forge ahead. Obviously manyothers take accurate measurement more seriously than I.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 29 Jul 2000, Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, One more thing. No matter what measuring instrument you use, youmustdevise some way to keep from crushing the delicate apex of the strip.BillWaara's little gizmo that John Long sold for a while is one way of doingthat. from ddeloach@pcisys.net Mon Jul 31 14:43:12 2000 e6VJhBG01744 Subject: Re: Short rods Okay, so now my blood is pumping, will anyone share their one-piece short( from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 31 14:44:37 2000 e6VJiaG01855 12:44:34 PDT Subject: Re: Scrapers there just is no substitute for a sharp plane blade. it seems tho that some times it's nice to have aalternate plan of attack. i've used scrapers, razorblades and cussin'. a sharp plane blade seems to workthe best. timothy --- Shawn Pineo wrote:Andrew,myself, and at least one other guy, heknows who he is;^) on here use a single edged razor blade in aretractable holder as acheap alternative to a bodied scraper or cabinetscraper for finaltweaking. It works marvelously! Shawn"Harsanyi, Andrew" wrote: Perhaps I should have checked the archives on thisone, but I amcurious to hear from anyone that has tried ascraper plane to get tofinal strip dimensions. Is it really better thanusing a good standardangle plane with a good sharp blade for the wholejob? Thanks, Andy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from dhaftel@att.com Mon Jul 31 14:49:26 2000 e6VJnNG02028 PAA21464; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Short rods Don, A. J. Thramer's 444DX is in the taper archives.http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/aj/thram444dx.html Heoriginallyintended it to be a two piece but I made it as a one piece and it's great. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Short rods Okay, so now my blood is pumping, will anyone share their one-piece short( from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jul 31 14:54:00 2000 e6VJrxG02300 Subject: Re: What makes me mad In a message dated 7/29/00 6:53:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,rsgould@cmc.net writes: Ray, Been there done that.... Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jul 31 14:54:25 2000 e6VJsOG02393 Subject: Re: Quality forms Give them hell, Harry! Don Burns In a message dated 7/30/00 7:30:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jul 31 14:54:28 2000 e6VJsSG02397 Subject: Re: Kingfisher Rod In a message dated 7/30/00 5:36:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jfreeman@cyberport.com writes: Jim, I'd guess that you've got a Montague made Kingfisher due to the decal. I believe the Heddon made Kingfishers use shaft writing like Heddon's ownrods. Stripper is most likely agateen. (colored glass) Don Burns from tklein@amgen.com Mon Jul 31 14:57:38 2000 e6VJvbG02666 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Accuracy Interesting article. If I'm reading it correctly, variations in the pith side of the apex coupledwith crushing the apex are the primary culprits in mismeasurement. Thatmakes sense to me. Does anyone have any info on the Waara gauge that's listed in the article?Is this a commercially available product or is Mr. Waara a rod builder whohas developed his own solution to measurement problems? ---Tim ----------From: stuart moultrie[SMTP:stuart.rod@gmx.de] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: Accuracy Good evening everybody, All this talk about accurate measurements reminded me that FrankNeunemann has just posted a new article by himself & John Bokstrom onhis Web Page. They also suggest a way to reach accurate measurementsusing the planing form as a "Waara gauge" replacement. Interestingreading. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.html and look under Articles Stuart from tklein@amgen.com Mon Jul 31 15:12:48 2000 e6VKClG03442 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: What makes me mad Not to chuckle at anothers misfortune, but this one cracks me up.---Tim You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work bench wrappingarod and then when it's finally about done I look down the rod and see that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat. Egads!!Ray >> from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jul 31 15:54:57 2000 e6VKsuG04905 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53);Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:53:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Quality forms Well said Mike ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Quality forms Harry Boyd seez... Here I am, apologizing again. ... I just don't understand what it is about some people that make folks likeHarry Boyd, and many others on this list feel like they have to apologize all benefited from folks like Harry, who offer their time to help others.If these people continually get beat up on for just trying to help, howlong do you think they will be around. For you long time list members,just think back to many folks who we have lost to just this kind oftreatment. Please, before jumping all over someone, take a moment to consider thespirit in which the person intended the post... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from oossg@vbe.com Mon Jul 31 16:04:51 2000 e6VL4pG05332 (envelope- from oossg@vbe.com) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: What makes me mad Tim,I taught a rodbuilding class last year and about a week after, I had a request mounted on the wrong side of the rod, and so he cut it off. After explainingall he needed to do was relocate the guide, he said he thought it would beeasier to change reelseats rather than redo the guide.Scott "Klein, Tim" wrote: Not to chuckle at anothers misfortune, but this one cracks me up.---Tim You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work benchwrapping arodand then when it's finally about done I look down the rod and see thatsomehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat. Egads!!Ray >> from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 31 16:11:14 2000 e6VLBDG05566 14:19:30 PDT Subject: RE: Accuracy bill was a mich builder. he passed away this year. you may not know who he is. he was a genius andsought after consulting engineer. he made so manyinnovations and always willing to share. my first rodwas a warra taper. i could never get him at home so icalled his business. he owned and operated amultimillion dollar business making conveinces for theauto industry. after going around with his secretary,me not wanting to disturb him at work but just wantingto make a contact and the secretary insisting he wouldtake the call, she paged him. he was conducting anannual board meeting or the like. when he understoodwhat i wanted was a specific taper he sent everyone generally if i am not making a driggs taper forsomeone i am making a warra taper. his generousitywill for ever set the tone of my rod building, iswear!timothy --- "Klein, Tim" wrote:Interesting article.Is this a commercially available product or is Mr.Waara a rod builder whohas developed his own solution to measurementproblems? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Mon Jul 31 16:13:06 2000 e6VLD6G05662 Subject: Re: Scrapers Shawn, I am not that guy, but I know who he is. His little scraper with thesingle edged razor blade works wonderfully. Regards, Kevin from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Jul 31 16:32:33 2000 e6VLWWG06645 tklein@amgen.com,"rod 'akers" Subject: RE: Accuracy i appologize if i've missed somehing here having been off list last week,but whp or what is a warra taper?do you or anyone have them, or info about them, that that individual iswilling to share? i always like to learn about new things and people whohave influenced our craft. educate me. chris -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Accuracy bill was a mich builder. he passed away this year. you may not know who he is. he was a genius andsought after consulting engineer. he made so manyinnovations and always willing to share. my first rodwas a warra taper. i could never get him at home so icalled his business. he owned and operated amultimillion dollar business making conveinces for theauto industry. after going around with his secretary,me not wanting to disturb him at work but just wantingto make a contact and the secretary insisting he wouldtake the call, she paged him. he was conducting anannual board meeting or the like. when he understoodwhat i wanted was a specific taper he sent everyone generally if i am not making a driggs taper forsomeone i am making a warra taper. his generousitywill for ever set the tone of my rod building, iswear!timothy --- "Klein, Tim" wrote:Interesting article.Is this a commercially available product or is Mr.Waara a rod builder whohas developed his own solution to measurementproblems? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 31 17:23:28 2000 e6VMNRG08084 Subject: Question on technique I'll start by apologizing for my lack of experience in asking thisquestion but it occurs to me that there should be a way tomathematically determine the form settings when you are doing the finaltapering. Let me explain, I have only Mauer's book and it seems as ifthe way final planning is described is that you set the forms to thefinal taper and then by planning, measuring, planning some more,measuring some more and flipping the strip over you arrive at the finaltaper. Seems to me that if you geometrically determine what the initialtaper for the final planning stage is by triangulating the measurementyou could set the form larger than the final taper, plane flat to theform, flip the strip over while adjusting the form to the final taper,insert strip and again plane flat, you should come very close to thefinal taper measurments. I apologize if this is confusing but this cameto me in the shower and I wanted to send it out before I got distractedand forgot what I was going to ask. Anyway, does anyone (assuming youunderstand what I'm asking) have a formula worked out or can tell me whythis can't be worked out this way? Thanks,Bill Walters from DJHEDGES@aol.com Mon Jul 31 17:26:33 2000 e6VMQWG08237 Subject: Rod Identification Greetings:I got this site as a contact from Ray Gould who lives nearby. I need help * 8 ft cane 2 piece - sections are NOT same length* guides (chrome) are stripper type the entire length. First one is Garnix.* mild half wells grip* black bakelite reel seat downlocking with a hexagonal down locking nut* rod has red/garnet intermediates approximately every 1"* writing on rod is as follows:- near grip written diagonally is" A Gold Band Rod"- above that is: . red intermediate. 1/4' gold band. red intermediate- above that is:. "8ft trout fly" (written on axis). Large "W" superimposed on an "S" and "London" all written perpendicular to therod's axis. I can send pictures if desired. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Dick from tklein@amgen.com Mon Jul 31 18:25:51 2000 e6VNPoG09555 smtp.amgen.com via smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Accuracy He sounds like a wonderful gentleman. I'm sorry I never got a chance to meet him.---Tim ----------From: timothy troester[SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 3:19 PM Subject: RE: Accuracy bill was a mich builder. he passed away this year. you may not know who he is. he was a genius andsought after consulting engineer. he made so manyinnovations and always willing to share. my first rodwas a warra taper. i could never get him at home so icalled his business. he owned and operated amultimillion dollar business making conveinces for theauto industry. after going around with his secretary,me not wanting to disturb him at work but just wantingto make a contact and the secretary insisting he wouldtake the call, she paged him. he was conducting anannual board meeting or the like. when he understoodwhat i wanted was a specific taper he sent everyone generally if i am not making a driggs taper forsomeone i am making a warra taper. his generousitywill for ever set the tone of my rod building, iswear!timothy --- "Klein, Tim" wrote:Interesting article.Is this a commercially available product or is Mr.Waara a rod builder whohas developed his own solution to measurementproblems? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jul 31 18:39:00 2000 e6VNcxG09829 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Rod Identification Hi Dick, It is an english rod but I don't think its a Hardy. I thinkit's a Milward. If the tip is just an inch or so short it was mostprobably made that way. I never could quite figure out why the Englishmade their rods that way. Marty Greetings:I got this site as a contact from Ray Gould who lives nearby. I need help * 8 ft cane 2 piece - sections are NOT same length* guides (chrome) are stripper type the entire length. First one is Garnix.* mild half wells grip* black bakelite reel seat downlocking with a hexagonal down locking nut* rod has red/garnet intermediates approximately every 1"* writing on rod is as follows:- near grip written diagonally is" A Gold Band Rod"- above that is:. red intermediate. 1/4' gold band. red intermediate- above that is:. "8ft trout fly" (written on axis). Large "W" superimposed on an "S" and "London" all writtenperpendicular to therod's axis. I can send pictures if desired. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Dick from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jul 31 18:47:00 2000 e6VNkxG10140 Subject: Re: Question on technique Bill,First of all, don't apologize for asking questions. That's what thislist is here for. Every question has value, whether from someone new torodmaking, or from the most experienced rodmaker on the list; whoever thatis.....Several folks have shared with this list how to determine your formsettings "geometrically." I think the most recent reference was earliertoday, pointing towards John Bokstrom's article on Frank Neunemann'swebsite. (there's a link off the rodmakers page to Frank's site)The geometric approach works well. But a dial indicator with a 60*point is still my favorite method. Once you get to know your tools, itbecomes very accurate and pretty quick. HTH,Harry Boyd Bill Walters wrote: I'll start by apologizing for my lack of experience in asking thisquestion but it occurs to me that there should be a way tomathematically determine the form settings when you are doing the finaltapering. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jul 31 18:55:39 2000 e6VNtXG10451 Subject: Re: Oxidizing nickel silver In a message dated 07/29/2000 3:12:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net writes: Robert, I'm not trying to sell you one of my products, butthe Kodak stuff doesn't work very well. The Oxidizing solutionthat I make up and sell, is actually made for oxidizing NickelSilver. I don't know of too many guys that had good luck with theKodak stuff. When you oxidize nickel silver, if the solution is too strong,or you leave it in too long, it will come off. All you want to do is to"color" the metal, not put a coating on it. That is what you aredoing. When the solution is too strong, it forms a coating on themetal, that will flake off, or peel off with the tape. Try using a weaker solution to do your oxidizing and yes, you should coatthe ferrules or reel seat with a clear coating after. The clearcoat serves two purposes. It helps keep the metal from gettingscratched and it also contains a UV protection. Without this UVprotection over it, the sun will fade the oxidizing over a few years. If all else fails, let me know and I can set you up with anoxidizer that does work. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jul 31 18:58:54 2000 e6VNwnG10629 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Rod Identification Hi again Dick, The W/S I think stands for Wembley & Scott (spelling?).I believe they were a sporting arms house in England. Still I think therod was manufactured for them by Milwards. Marty Hi Dick, It is an english rod but I don't think its a Hardy. I thinkit's a Milward. If the tip is just an inch or so short it was mostprobably made that way. I never could quite figure out why the Englishmade their rods that way. Marty Greetings:I got this site as a contact from Ray Gould who lives nearby. I need help * 8 ft cane 2 piece - sections are NOT same length* guides (chrome) are stripper type the entire length. First one is Garnix.* mild half wells grip* black bakelite reel seat downlocking with a hexagonal down locking nut* rod has red/garnet intermediates approximately every 1"* writing on rod is as follows:- near grip written diagonally is" A Gold Band Rod"- above that is:. red intermediate. 1/4' gold band. red intermediate- above that is:. "8ft trout fly" (written on axis). Large "W" superimposed on an "S" and "London" all writtenperpendicular to therod's axis. I can send pictures if desired. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Dick from jfreeman@cyberport.com Mon Jul 31 19:09:42 2000 e7109fG11048 Subject: Re: Kingfisher Rod Thanks to all for the replies on the Kingfisher. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Kingfisher Rod In a message dated 7/30/00 5:36:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jfreeman@cyberport.com writes: repair to. The rod's in pretty good shape - handle and ferrules loose, butthe underlying fit seems ok. Ferrules definitely not Super Z class but nottoo bad either. No glue lines although the surface of the cane has someunleveled spots in the butt section. Flamed with the wraps and varnish ingood shape. Garrision node stagger although one spot has two nodes nexttoeach other. All sections straight with even tips. One tip and the stripperare of something that I first took for agate, but, on closer exam, doesnothave any uneven- ness to the color - I'm guessing a composite of some kind.Original decal on rod but no line size shown. Cloth rod bag has labelwhichis missing part of what I'm guessing is the line size - numbers left are???09 3/4 - 1072 9'. I don't know anything about Kingfisher Rods - I'mguessing Japanese and something along the lines of a 7 weight. Can any ofyouhelp identify line size and approximate value? Thanks,Jim Jim, I'd guess that you've got a Montague made Kingfisher due to the decal. Ibelieve the Heddon made Kingfishers use shaft writing like Heddon's ownrods. Stripper is most likely agateen. (colored glass) Don Burns from rvenneri@ulster.net Mon Jul 31 19:55:23 2000 e710tMG12191 (172.16.0.129) Organization: Venneri's Subject: Re: Oxidizing nickel silver LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 07/29/2000 3:12:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net writes: I am in the middle of my first adventure with oxidizing NS and and into aproblem. I am using REC oxidizing solution which is just a Kodak filmdeveloping kit. I've heard from others that this stuff takes a long time andthe instructions say to leave the parts soaking in the solution for 8 to 10hours, but I apparently mixed the solution too strong and it blackens partsin a couple of minutes. I've also read that the oxidation easily rubs offand parts need to be coated with a clear finish to protect them whileworkingwith them. To me, the oxidation seems to be pretty durable as long as youdon't take steel wool to it. >> Robert, I'm not trying to sell you one of my products, butthe Kodak stuff doesn't work very well. The Oxidizing solutionthat I make up and sell, is actually made for oxidizing NickelSilver. I don't know of too many guys that had good luck with theKodak stuff. When you oxidize nickel silver, if the solution is too strong,or you leave it in too long, it will come off. All you want to do is to"color" the metal, not put a coating on it. That is what you aredoing. When the solution is too strong, it forms a coating on themetal, that will flake off, or peel off with the tape. Try using aweaker solution to do your oxidizing and yes, you should coatthe ferrules or reel seat with a clear coating after. The clearcoat serves two purposes. It helps keep the metal from gettingscratched and it also contains a UV protection. Without this UVprotection over it, the sun will fade the oxidizing over a few years. If all else fails, let me know and I can set you up with anoxidizer that does work. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.htmlRobert,I swear by Daves formula. It is the best Ive found. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's\21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jul 31 20:01:02 2000 e71111G12339 Subject: Re: Quality forms/Biondo Mike,I agree with you. Whoever it was that sent that to the guy with the forms all I can say is childish and asinine. There are to many in the rod making game with too big of egos and to big heads. I have tried to do business with some of these guys and their attitude was so bad I just laughed at them and walked away the wiser, one guy I was already to buy a rod from him and his ego and stupid attitude got in the way and it cost him $1000.00+ because I again walked away from him without a word. He probably still doesn't get it why he lost a sale. None of these guys are gods and none of them need to be sucked up to. Harry's comments were not made in contemp he was juststating a fact and an opinion. If this offends anyone I don't care to hear their diatribes. NUFF SAID.Bret from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 31 20:29:51 2000 e711TpG13008 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP ;Tue, 1 Aug 2000 01:29:44 +0000 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Oxidizing nickel silver I'll second that and add that you can do a dark, almost black finish toa pewter "antique" finish and everything in between, depending on howyou treat the metal afterwards. Bottom line, I'm impressed. Dennis Robert Venneri wrote: LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 07/29/2000 3:12:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net writes: I am in the middle of my first adventure with oxidizing NS and and into aproblem. I am using REC oxidizing solution which is just a Kodak filmdeveloping kit. I've heard from others that this stuff takes a long timeandthe instructions say to leave the parts soaking in the solution for 8 to10hours, but I apparently mixed the solution too strong and it blackenspartsin a couple of minutes. I've also read that the oxidation easily rubs offand parts need to be coated with a clear finish to protect them whileworkingwith them. To me, the oxidation seems to be pretty durable as long asyoudon't take steel wool to it. >> Robert, I'm not trying to sell you one of my products, butthe Kodak stuff doesn't work very well. The Oxidizing solutionthat I make up and sell, is actually made for oxidizing NickelSilver. I don't know of too many guys that had good luck with theKodak stuff. When you oxidize nickel silver, if the solution is too strong,or you leave it in too long, it will come off. All you want to do is to"color" the metal, not put a coating on it. That is what you aredoing. When the solution is too strong, it forms a coating on themetal, that will flake off, or peel off with the tape. Try using aweaker solution to do your oxidizing and yes, you should coatthe ferrules or reel seat with a clear coating after. The clearcoat serves two purposes. It helps keep the metal from gettingscratched and it also contains a UV protection. Without this UVprotection over it, the sun will fade the oxidizing over a few years. If all else fails, let me know and I can set you up with anoxidizer that does work. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.htmlRobert,I swear by Daves formula. It is the best Ive found. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's\21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from channer1@rmi.net Mon Jul 31 21:20:54 2000 e712KrG14070 Subject: Re: Question on technique Bill; wat to make it harder than it has to be. It is really very simple, allyou do is set your form for 1/2 the dimension of the finished rod ateach station. Plane your first strip until you no longer get shavings ofbamboo, check the measurements of the strip at each station, then makeany adjustments necessary to the form( you will undoubtedly be a bitbigger than what you want, if your point is dull, you will get a deepersetting of the form, an easy correction once the strip is measured).Then, plane the rest of the strips until they no longer produceshavings. i do check all the stations of all the strips, but after thefirst one it is merely a formality. As to accuracy, yaddy yadda,blah,blah,blah, all I can say is, suit yourself, if you get the numbersyou want with the instument you use, then the changes in dimension willproduce the basic character of the rod you are looking for, whether ornot you are a couple of thousandths over or under the actual numbersdoesn't really matter, it is the difference between stations that reallycounts. the rest of you can flame my a-- raw, but i am convinced thatthis is all that counts, all other things being equal. As forreproducing an old rod exactly, forget it, it won't happen, there arejust too many variables. Let's not forget something here, we're dealingwith a natural material, not space age technology, IT'S JUST WOOD!!!! Nomatter how close you get to right on the nose measurements, i can almostabsolutely guaranteee that in a few weeks, months or some other unknownamount of time, they will not be the same as when you started. Just myhumble opinion.John Bill Walters wrote: I'll start by apologizing for my lack of experience in asking thisquestion but it occurs to me that there should be a way tomathematically determine the form settings when you are doing the finaltapering. Let me explain, I have only Mauer's book and it seems as ifthe way final planning is described is that you set the forms to thefinal taper and then by planning, measuring, planning some more,measuring some more and flipping the strip over you arrive at the finaltaper. Seems to me that if you geometrically determine what the initialtaper for the final planning stage is by triangulating the measurementyou could set the form larger than the final taper, plane flat to theform, flip the strip over while adjusting the form to the final taper,insert strip and again plane flat, you should come very close to thefinal taper measurments. I apologize if this is confusing but this came> tome in the shower and I wanted to send it out before I got distractedand forgot what I was going to ask. Anyway, does anyone (assuming youunderstand what I'm asking) have a formula worked out or can tell me whythis can't be worked out this way? Thanks,Bill Walters from channer1@rmi.net Mon Jul 31 21:24:06 2000 e712O6G14195 Subject: Re: Question on technique Harry Boyd wrote: Bill,First of all, don't apologize for asking questions. That's what thislist is here for. Every question has value, whether from someone new torodmaking, or from the most experienced rodmaker on the list; whoeverthatis.....Several folks have shared with this list how to determine your formsettings "geometrically." I think the most recent reference was earliertoday, pointing towards John Bokstrom's article on Frank Neunemann'swebsite. (there's a link off the rodmakers page to Frank's site)The geometric approach works well. But a dial indicator with a 60*point is still my favorite method. Once you get to know your tools, itbecomes very accurate and pretty quick. HTH,Harry Boyd And, don't forget,"easy" HarryJohn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jul 31 21:58:03 2000 e712w2G14925 Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:57:57 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Question on technique Bill,Now I see where you're coming from. I don't have Maurer's book in frontofme, but I seem to remember that my friend George recommends that youset the formsoversize, plane down to the forms, and then re-set the forms. Correct me ifI'mwrong. I planed out a butt section tonight. Just walked in the house. Here's whatIdid: First, I set the forms to .001" oversize, or so I thought. Then I removedall the enamel from the first strip, and started carefully planing. When theplane stopped removing bamboo, I switched to a scraper. The scraperremoved atiny bit more. At that point, I measured each station on the strip, and madesomenotations on the form. For example: Target Actual Adjustment .155 .159 -.004.155 .1585 -.0035.155 .160 -.005.1415 .145 -.0035.134 .134.128 .131 -.003.1135 .1175 -.004 I then planed the strip down again. It only took a few strokes. I re- measuredateach station, and made a couple of additional adjustments. Strips 2-6 cameoutwithin .0005 inches of strip 1. Having re-read your post, I'm not sure that's what you had in mind. But itworkspretty simply. I wish I could tell you that I only made a dozen measurements,twice at each of six stations. The truth is I did a whole bunch of measuringbefore I got it just like I wanted it. One more point I might mention. We rarely know the width of the enamel sideofthe strip. Instead, we measure the height of the traingle from flat to apex.That's a different measurement. There is a way to figure out the length ofoneside of an equilateral trianble based on height of the apex, but I'd have todragout a math book to remember the formula. (Only minored in math in college!!Remember almost none of it. Boy, the 1970's were fun!!) If this doesn't help, let me know. I'll see if I can get some of theengineering types on the list to respond. Harry Bill Walters wrote: Harry,I was afraid that this would be too confusing. I wasn't talking about settingthe forms without the aid of a depth gauge. I have one. What I'm talkingaboutis cutting down on the number of measurments necessary. An example ofsortsmay be the way to explain my idea. For instance let us say I have a rodtaperthat calls for .068 to .322. Each strip would be from .034 to .161.Hypothetically speaking if I knew the measurement of one side of thetriangle(across the enamel plane) and knew that by adding .010 to each station forthefirst planning down to the form and then adjust the form to the .034 to.161and rolling the strip and again planning flat to the form I would wind up withthe intended taper without having to take a hundred measurments. If thisisstill as clear as mud let me know and I'll put together a diagram of what I'mtalking about. Harry Boyd wrote: Bill,First of all, don't apologize for asking questions. That's what thislist is here for. Every question has value, whether from someone new torodmaking, or from the most experienced rodmaker on the list; whoeverthatis.....Several folks have shared with this list how to determine your formsettings "geometrically." I think the most recent reference was earliertoday, pointing towards John Bokstrom's article on Frank Neunemann'swebsite. (there's a link off the rodmakers page to Frank's site)The geometric approach works well. But a dial indicator with a 60*point is still my favorite method. Once you get to know your tools, itbecomes very accurate and pretty quick. HTH,Harry Boyd Bill Walters wrote: I'll start by apologizing for my lack of experience in asking thisquestion but it occurs to me that there should be a way tomathematically determine the form settings when you are doing thefinaltapering. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jul 31 22:36:37 2000 e713a5G15580 Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:35:46 +0800 Subject: Re: Question on technique Yeah, like John said. Tony At 08:22 PM 7/31/00 -0600, channer wrote:Bill; wat to make it harder than it has to be. It is really very simple, allyou do is set your form for 1/2 the dimension of the finished rod ateach station. Plane your first strip until you no longer get shavings ofbamboo, check the measurements of the strip at each station, then makeany adjustments necessary to the form( you will undoubtedly be a bitbigger than what you want, if your point is dull, you will get a deepersetting of the form, an easy correction once the strip is measured).Then, plane the rest of the strips until they no longer produceshavings. i do check all the stations of all the strips, but after thefirst one it is merely a formality. As to accuracy, yaddy yadda,blah,blah,blah, all I can say is, suit yourself, if you get the numbersyou want with the instument you use, then the changes in dimension willproduce the basic character of the rod you are looking for, whether ornot you are a couple of thousandths over or under the actual numbersdoesn't really matter, it is the difference between stations that reallycounts. the rest of you can flame my a-- raw, but i am convinced thatthis is all that counts, all other things being equal. As forreproducing an old rod exactly, forget it, it won't happen, there arejust too many variables. Let's not forget something here, we're dealingwith a natural material, not space age technology, IT'S JUST WOOD!!!! Nomatter how close you get to right on the nose measurements, i can almostabsolutely guaranteee that in a few weeks, months or some other unknownamount of time, they will not be the same as when you started. Just myhumble opinion.John Bill Walters wrote: I'll start by apologizing for my lack of experience in asking thisquestion but it occurs to me that there should be a way tomathematically determine the form settings when you are doing the finaltapering. Let me explain, I have only Mauer's book and it seems as ifthe way final planning is described is that you set the forms to thefinal taper and then by planning, measuring, planning some more,measuring some more and flipping the strip over you arrive at the finaltaper. Seems to me that if you geometrically determine what the initialtaper for the final planning stage is by triangulating the measurementyou could set the form larger than the final taper, plane flat to theform, flip the strip over while adjusting the form to the final taper,insert strip and again plane flat, you should come very close to thefinal taper measurments. I apologize if this is confusing but this cameto me in the shower and I wanted to send it out before I got distractedand forgot what I was going to ask. Anyway, does anyone (assuming youunderstand what I'm asking) have a formula worked out or can tell me whythis can't be worked out this way? Thanks,Bill Walters /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jul 31 23:08:15 2000 e7148EG16177 Subject: Re: Rod Identification Most english rods have the "wood" equal in length. Then the ferrules ,tip top guide, are installed causing the rod sections to be of unequallength. ----------From: marty Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod IdentificationDate: Monday, July 31, 2000 7:32 PM Hi Dick, It is an english rod but I don't think its a Hardy. I thinkit's a Milward. If the tip is just an inch or so short it was mostprobably made that way. I never could quite figure out why the Englishmade their rods that way. Marty Greetings:I got this site as a contact from Ray Gould who lives nearby. I needhelp * 8 ft cane 2 piece - sections are NOT same length* guides (chrome) are stripper type the entire length. First one isGarnix.* mild half wells grip* black bakelite reel seat downlocking with a hexagonal down lockingnut* rod has red/garnet intermediates approximately every 1"* writing on rod is as follows:- near grip written diagonally is" A Gold Band Rod"- above that is:. red intermediate. 1/4' gold band. red intermediate- above that is:. "8ft trout fly" (written on axis). Large "W" superimposed on an "S" and "London" all writtenperpendicular to therod's axis. I can send pictures if desired. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Regards, Dick from rkrees@mcn.net Mon Jul 31 23:45:42 2000 e714jfG16842 Subject: Just Thanks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFFB41.869019E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFFB41.869019E0 in the back logs and glean whatever is to my advantage. At this time I =would like to welcome all of those who plan to visit our area this week =and wish them the best of luck in their endeavors. For those of you if =any that may be from the Bozeman or southwest Montana area I extend an =open heart and a welcome to the opportunity to meet you. Thanks guys and =yes I am in the background working on the forms! Ron ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFFB41.869019E0 back logs and glean whatever is to my advantage. At this time I would = welcome all of those who plan to visit our area this week and wish them = of luck in their endeavors. For those of you if any that may be from the = opportunity to meet you. Thanks guys and yes I am in the background = the forms!Ron ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BFFB41.869019E0--