from mep@mint.net Tue Aug 1 03:07:21 2000 e7187KG20031 Tue, 1 Aug 2000 04:07:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Scrapers I use a lie nielson scraper plane, sharpened and set properly it cantake off a shaving so thin it is transparent. It's a bit pricey thoughand I can do the same thing with a properly sharpened cabinet scraperheld in the hand, this costs about $5.00. I can't get nearly as finewith a block plane. Mike from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Aug 1 05:56:49 2000 e71AulG21642 Subject: Scrapers Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFFBF9.E53EF480 No.petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFFBF9.E53EF480 No.petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BFFBF9.E53EF480-- from sf_saez@email.msn.com Tue Aug 1 08:10:21 2000 e71DAKG23940 Tue, 1 Aug 2000 06:09:44 -0700 Subject: RE: Rod Identification This is pure speculation on my part so take for what it's worth. There is acertain logic to dissimilar ferruled section lengths. If you make a rodwhere the unferruled sections add up exactly to the overall length of therod then mounting the ferrules will make the sections have different lengthsdue to the length of the tube in the female ferrule, each section will havethe same amount of cane. A rod made this way will always be the statedlength when joined. If all ferruled sections are the same length then therewill be less cane in the sections with female ferrules. All sections have tobe lengthened slightly to account for the ferrule overlap so when joined therod is the stated length. How you measure good craftsmanship determineswhether dissimilar section lengths are good or bad. It's certainly makeslife easier for the rod collectors when they are the same. Sorry to everyoneif I'm just stating the obvious. -----Original Message-----I never could quite figure out why the English made their rods thatway. Marty from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Aug 1 08:56:36 2000 e71DuZG25879 07:05:23 PDT Subject: RE: Accuracy the bill warra 7 1/2 ft 5wt tip: .072 .092 .108 .124 .140 .158 .170 .184 .196 .210butt:.210 .220 .230 .240 .250 .280 .306 .325 .325 .325ferrule: 13/64guide spacing-rod assembled: tip 4" 8.5" 14" 20" 27"34" 42" ferrule 51" 61.5" this is the rod as listed in the planing form by johnlong. this is a "western style" dry fly rod. to meit makes a better 6wt. i would also use a 14/64ferrule because the dia at the ferrule is just a hairover. timothy--- Art Port wrote:Timothy,Are there any tapers available for generalconsumption? The only one I'veever seen posted was the recent 12 ft 3 pc 6 wt. Isanyone protecting them from being posted? You really hit a nerve whne youmade that Driggscomparison. I've found over time that a rod with PHYattached to it isALWAYS a good taper (at least all the ones I'vebuilt!)Since I fish mostly NY and PA streams, my need fora 12 ft ANYthing ispretty slim *;-)*, but I'd sure like to try asmaller model if you feelthat way about them.Thanks,Art At 02:19 PM 07/31/2000 -0700, you wrote:bill was a mich builder. he passed away this year. you may not know who he is. he was a genius andsought after consulting engineer. he made so manyinnovations and always willing to share. my firstrodwas a warra taper. i could never get him at homeso icalled his business. he owned and operated amultimillion dollar business making conveinces fortheauto industry. after going around with hissecretary,me not wanting to disturb him at work but justwantingto make a contact and the secretary insisting hewouldtake the call, she paged him. he was conducting anannual board meeting or the like. when heunderstoodwhat i wanted was a specific taper he sent everyone generally if i am not making a driggs taper forsomeone i am making a warra taper. his generousitywill for ever set the tone of my rod building, iswear!timothy --- "Klein, Tim" wrote:Interesting article.Is this a commercially available product or isMr.Waara a rod builder whohas developed his own solution to measurementproblems? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Aug 1 10:13:19 2000 e71FDIG27998 Subject: Perhaps A Mystery Yesterday I was permitted to inspect a F. E. Thomas "Fairy" Rod, a twopiece rod, assembled length 69-3/4", yellow wraps with light green tips. The butt plate is simply marked F. E. Thomas Maker. None of my books reveal any details about the rod, which could mean itws a special order. Does anyone know the details? George from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 1 10:14:26 2000 e71FEPG28098 Subject: Re: Question on technique 1.There is a chart that comes with Tom Morgan's Hand Mill that gives the height from enamel to apex based on the width of the enamel side of the strip. I don't know how useful it would be for someone using forms, but it does get you pretty close on the Mill, and it doesn't crush the apex and give you false measurements.2. Harry, what the heck is "HTH," Best regards,Bob One more point I might mention. We rarely know the width of the enamel side ofthe strip. Instead, we measure the height of the traingle from flat to apex.That's a different measurement. There is a way to figure out the length of oneside of an equilateral trianble based on height of the apex, but I'd have to dragout a math book to remember the formula. (Only minored in math in college!!Remember almost none of it. Boy, the 1970's were fun!!) Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Aug 1 10:55:55 2000 e71FtsG29779 Subject: Nickel silver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFFBA8.A16E4860 Has anyone got an extra 12" of 1/4" 18% nickel silver rod or know of a =source? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFFBA8.A16E4860 Has anyone got an extra 12"of = 18% nickel silver rod or know of a source? Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BFFBA8.A16E4860-- from tklein@amgen.com Tue Aug 1 11:35:48 2000 e71GZlG01160 Subject: RE: Nickel silver Is 18% Nickel Silver available in rod form? So far, every metal shop I've talked to has access to 18% NS tubing and/or12% Rod but not 18% rod.---Tim ---------- Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 10:07 AM Subject: Nickel silver Has anyone got an extra 12" of 1/4" 18% nickel silver rod or know of asource? Dennis Bertram from stpete@netten.net Tue Aug 1 12:11:05 2000 e71HB4G02396 Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:22:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Nickel silver - Source! --------------7826F2D0F1CE1DEE32604544 Dennis, Call Sheffield's Knifemaker's Supply in Florida.1-800-874-7007 (orders)1- 904-775-6453 (info, catalogs, orders under the $30.00 minimum)1-904- 774-5754 (fax) Available in many diameters from 1/6" to 5/16" $.55 to 3.75 per footdepending on diameter. 1/4" is 2.70 per foot. They also have bar,sheet and 1/4" tube. I got this source from Leo Eck's ferrule making lecture/demo at theSouthern Rodmaker's Gathering in 1998. Rick C. Dennis Bertram wrote: Has anyone got an extra 12" of 1/4" 18% nickel silver rod or know ofa source? Dennis Bertram --------------7826F2D0F1CE1DEE32604544 Dennis,Call Sheffield's Knifemaker's Supply in Florida.1-800-874-7007 (orders)1-904-775-6453 (info, catalogs, orders under the $30.00 minimum)1-904-774-5754 (fax)Available in many diameters from 1/6" to 5/16" $.55 to 3.75 per foot bar, sheet and 1/4" tube.I got this source from Leo Eck's ferrule making lecture/demo at theSouthern Rodmaker's Gathering in 1998.Rick C.Dennis Bertram wrote: anyonegot an extra 12" of 1/4" 18% nickel silver rod or know of a Bertram --------------7826F2D0F1CE1DEE32604544-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Aug 1 13:43:07 2000 e71Ih6G05117 Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:41:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Nickel silver Texas Knife Supply, I think it is, has it. They are in Houston, and I'll tryto find an address, or number. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Nickel silver Has anyone got an extra 12" of 1/4" 18% nickel silver rod or know of asource? Dennis Bertram from freaner@home.com Tue Aug 1 14:54:34 2000 e71JsTG07847 Subject: Re: Question on technique At 9:48 PM -0500 on 7/31/00, Harry Boyd wrote about Re: Question ontechnique ...One more point I might mention. We rarely know the width of the enamel side ofthe strip. Instead, we measure the height of the traingle from flat to apex.That's a different measurement. There is a way to figure out the length of oneside of an equilateral trianble based on height of the apex... The distance from a flat to an apex of a strip (for a hex rod) will be 0.866 times the width of the flat. Claude from truckin@deltech.net Tue Aug 1 16:26:36 2000 e71LQZG11486 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-55121U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:26:32 -0500 Subject: ferrule I need a female ferrule for a Heddon #10 Blue Waters bamboo.... the onei need is the one the tip male ferrule fits in..... any suggestions? from truckin@deltech.net Tue Aug 1 16:41:25 2000 e71LfOG11972 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-55121U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:41:22 -0500 Subject: fishing trip Well rodmakers... I went ahead and did my fishing trip out west...asbout 4000 miles of it. I got no further than the high Uintas in Utahand after spending time there looked over the fly fishing sertup at SanJuan River in New Mexico and finished up by checking out the LosPiedras River in Colorado. Spent a day on Diamond Fork Fly Fishingonly zone in Utah.... there is a very beautiful 7 1/2miles of day use ( no camping) western meadow type stream about kneedeep for the most part. the only thing is ... no fish .... at leastthe day I wasd there. In the high Uintas headwater streams I wascatching upwards of 50 brookie and cutthroat aday ( all wild and youreally could have caught as many as you cared too) every little run,hole and tailout in the six foot wide mountain stream had two or threeebrookie in it all competing for any bug, ant or morsel that camefloatinbg by. I used any fly on hand in size 14-16 and took fish oneverything in my fy box. After the headwater small stream fishing Iwas pretty well ruined for big water fishing , where you have to digout each individual fish... It's hard to find productive water in thewest although the articles and books would have you believe there's ariver creek or stream on every hill. The Los Piedras seems thebest for next year and it too is a fly/lure only zone..... more later from jlintvet@mediaone.net Tue Aug 1 17:54:48 2000 e71MslG13934 Subject: Re: Titebond II Extend Glue I made my first rod this way. I used the straight TBII and I would guess nomore than 20-30 minutes of legitimate working time. The stuff will startgetting chunky and your hands will tack up. Make sure you have done severaldry runs through the glue up and binding before you get out the glue. Tryto get the sections rolled back together and bound as quickly as possible.I would suggest doing each section of the rod at a time ... meaning. Do thetip ,clean up, wash your hands, and then do the butt. Both sections willtake you too long in my opinion. I haven't ever used the extender ...sorry. Best of luck! Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Titebond II Extend Glue Some questions from a newbie who is about to glue up his first rod. How much work time (in minutes) do you have before Titebond IIsets up? What is used for clean up for Titebond II Extend glue? Tom from captvonbek@earthlink.net Tue Aug 1 18:19:39 2000 e71NJcG14504 QAA29454 Subject: Nodeless questions I've skimmed throught the articles on the subject as well as the excellentNodeless FAQ, however I'm a bit unclear on something. I know that the culmsare heat treated before they are split. I've heard that some heat treat again after splicing trips. I gather thatthis is not necessary and that the strips will be planed straight and true. Also, If I use Titebond II for splicing, can I use the Nyatex epoxy forglueing my sections? Thanks indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Aug 1 18:24:25 2000 e71NOOG14812 Subject: FW: yellowstone fly-fishing -----Original Message-----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:20 PM Subject: yellowstone fly-fishing hey gang - i'm about to embark upon my first fly-fishing trip toyellowstone ever. my girlfriend and i are going specifically to fish, and will be staying ina cabin in the park during the first week in september. i would appreciate if anyone on the list had recommendations on whichrivers & stream in the park that we should fish, or recommendationsregarding fly shops, guides and specific fly patterns. if anyone can help please contact me off-list. thanks in advance. chris from Canerods@aol.com Tue Aug 1 19:17:55 2000 e720HsG16269 Subject: Re: ferrule In a message dated 8/1/00 2:27:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, truckin@deltech.net writes: You need to tell us more - lenght of rod and ferrule size rating (2F,2-1/2F etc) off the shaft. Don Burns from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Aug 1 19:35:30 2000 e720ZSG16779 ;Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:35:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Titebond II Extend Glue Hey Jon, If you don't mind my asking... How does that rod stand up to the testof time? In other words, do you get to use it much? I have a whoppingsix dollar investment in these questions thus far :-), and I'm hoping totry some TBII on my next rod. BTW: I noticed you're signed up for Roscoe this year. Any chanceyou'll have that rod with you for a looksee? Thanx, Dennis Jon Lintvet wrote: I made my first rod this way. I used the straight TBII and I would guess nomore than 20-30 minutes of legitimate working time. The stuff will startgetting chunky and your hands will tack up. Make sure you have doneseveraldry runs through the glue up and binding before you get out the glue. Tryto get the sections rolled back together and bound as quickly as possible.I would suggest doing each section of the rod at a time ... meaning. Do thetip ,clean up, wash your hands, and then do the butt. Both sections willtake you too long in my opinion. I haven't ever used the extender ...sorry. Best of luck! Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message -----From: "TOM PETERS" Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 7:18 PMSubject: Titebond II Extend Glue Some questions from a newbie who is about to glue up his first rod. How much work time (in minutes) do you have before Titebond IIsets up? What is used for clean up for Titebond II Extend glue? Tom from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 1 20:08:09 2000 e72188G17753 Subject: Re: Nodeless questions --=====================_1454656==_.ALT Hi Frank:See Chris Bogart's excellent site for a description. I pretty much do it his way. (A link to his site is at the Rodmakers site under Makers).When I do nodeless, I :* Flame the culm (If you are going to do it that way, but I like blond nodeless rods, flaming really makes the splices show)* Cut out the nodes. (Band saw works great!)* Mark my sections as to what order they came in the culm. (I mark the butt ends in colored markers using black, blue, green, purple, red. This way they are spliced to sections consecutively from butt to tip. If you look at the colors I use, you will notice it is alphabetical. Black sections come from the butt of the culm and red closest to the tip.)* Split the sections.* Heat treat all the chopsticks in the kitchen oven.* Plane the sections in the splice block. Alternate the splices between strips. (Do all the splices on the first strip with the enamel facing you in the splice block. Do the second strip facing away, etc....)* Use TB II to clamp sections together (I use three 1" Pony clamps per slice)* I square of the edges of each strip in a little form with a square notch down its length. Shallow for tips on one side, and deeper for butt sections on the other.* Rough plane* Final Plane* Glue* FinishI have had good success using Epon and Gorilla Glue for the rods. Just be aware that the Titebond II at the splices is susceptible to high heat. I would be wary of using heat to set the glue because of the TB II. That's why I started using Gorilla Glue instead of the Epon.Good luck, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_1454656==_.ALT Hi Frank:See Chris Bogart's excellent site for a description. I pretty much do ithis way. (A link to his site is at the Rodmakers site under Makers). When I do nodeless, I : Flame the culm (If you are going to do it that way, but I like blondnodeless rods, flaming really makes the splices show)Cut out the nodes. (Band saw works great!)Mark my sections as to what order they came in the culm. (I mark thebutt ends in colored markers using black, blue, green, purple, red. Thisway they are spliced to sections consecutively from butt to tip. If youlook at the colors I use, you will notice it is alphabetical. Blacksections come from the butt of the culm and red closest to the tip.)Split the sections. Heat treat all the chopsticks in the kitchen oven. Plane the sections in the splice block. Alternate the splices betweenstrips. (Do all the splices on the first strip with the enamel facing youin the splice block. Do the second strip facing away, etc....)Use TB II to clamp sections together (I use three 1" Pony clampsper slice)I square of the edges of each strip in a little form with a squarenotch down its length. Shallow for tips on one side, and deeper for buttsections on the other.Rough planeFinal PlaneGlueFinishI have had good success using Epon and Gorilla Glue for the rods.Just be aware that the Titebond II at the splices is susceptible to highheat. I would be wary of using heat to set the glue because of the TB II.That's why I started using Gorilla Glue instead of the Epon.Good luck, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_1454656==_.ALT-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Aug 1 20:15:36 2000 e721FZG17982 Subject: Re: Nickel silver In a message dated 08/01/2000 12:04:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fquinchat@locl.net writes: Dennis, contact Sheffield's Knife Makers Supply. Theycarry 18% nickel silver bar stock in small sizes. They're phone number is 904-775-6453 get one of they'recatalogs. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Aug 1 20:25:25 2000 e721PNG18300 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 02 Aug 2000 09:24:58 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Nodeless questions Hi Frank,I split the culm sections into "chopsticks", heat treat themin the kitchen oven (SWMBO hates the smell and runs away from hometemporarily) and then splice with Titebond II. There is no need to heattreat after this. I glue the finished strips with Resourcinol and can seeno reason why you shouldn't use Nyatex if you want to. Welcome to the Dark Side Mike I've heard that some heat treat again after splicing trips. I gather thatthis is not necessary and that the strips will be planed straight and true. Also, If I use Titebond II for splicing, can I use the Nyatex epoxy forglueing my sections? Thanks indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Aug 1 20:38:18 2000 e721cHG18740 Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:38:16 -0400 "Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au" ,"RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Nodeless questions Mike Try heat treating the culm sections first then splitting - they will splitso much easier. Chris On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:21:29 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote: Hi Frank,I split the culm sections into "chopsticks", heat treat themin the kitchen oven (SWMBO hates the smell and runs away from hometemporarily) and then splice with Titebond II. There is no need to heattreat after this. I glue the finished strips with Resourcinol and can seeno reason why you shouldn't use Nyatex if you want to. Welcome to the Dark Side Mike I've heard that some heat treat again after splicing trips. I gather thatthis is not necessary and that the strips will be planed straight and true. Also, If I use Titebond II for splicing, can I use the Nyatex epoxy forglueing my sections? Thanks indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Aug 1 21:56:51 2000 e722umG20470 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:55:43 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "Roberts, Michael" ,RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Nodeless questions Thanks Chris,one problem I do have is the splits going off-squaresometimes. I always split from the bottom of the sections to the top, whichseems to be common practice, but sometimes I end up going from a nicesquaresection at the start of the split to a sort of rhomboid section at the otherend. Does heat treating the culm section first help to produce squarersplits? Also, what temperature and duration do you use for heat treating? TIA Mike -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Nodeless questions Mike Try heat treating the culm sections first then splitting - they willsplitso much easier. Chris On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:21:29 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote: Hi Frank,I split the culm sections into "chopsticks", heat treat themin the kitchen oven (SWMBO hates the smell and runs away from hometemporarily) and then splice with Titebond II. There is no need to heattreat after this. I glue the finished strips with Resourcinol and can seeno reason why you shouldn't use Nyatex if you want to. Welcome to the Dark Side Mike I've heard that some heat treat again after splicing trips. I gather thatthis is not necessary and that the strips will be planed straight and true. Also, If I use Titebond II for splicing, can I use the Nyatex epoxy forglueing my sections? Thanks indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Collins@dccnet.com Tue Aug 1 22:03:43 2000 e7233gG20710 Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:00:00 -0700 Subject: Sir F! I recently finished my first rod. It was supposed to be a Sir D!However, after the glue up one tip ended up 0.010 too wide and the other ended up 0.020 too wide!Since I had a fishing trip coming up and little time or cane to build a new tip I simply finished the rod.After all experience in varnishing and guide wrapping is useful. I fly up to northern British Columbia and went fishing for trout on The Dean river. The rod was a huge hit with the fishermen up there. Oddly the 0.010 too wide tip was not too useful, but the 0.020 too wide tip was great at casting a 5 weight double taper line. At some pools on The Dean I was catching a fish a cast. I was amazed that I could get a rod so wrong and end up with a useful rod. I think I'll call it "Sir F!" After getting new forms, and paying MUCH more attention, my second rod a PHY midge came out of the glue right on the money. Well I'm totally hooked. I have cane split for a Payne and a Dickerson after that. Thanks to all on the list server and their help. Doug Collins from captvonbek@earthlink.net Tue Aug 1 23:03:46 2000 e7243kG21621 VAA07190 Subject: Nodeless glues Thanks all for your insightful responses. It seems that Titebond II and Shell Epon are quite suitable. I'm assumingthe Titebond II can be gotten almost anywhere. Is Stephenson Chem. Co. thesource for Epon resin 828 and Epi-Cure 3140? Another source? As for Glace Cotton Thread, I understand from a 1995 post that it wasinexpensive at Atlanta Thread & Supply Co. Now, is there a suitablealternative thread considering that the glued sections will not be goinginto the oven? Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Aug 2 01:14:44 2000 e726EeG23829 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:15:59 +0800 Subject: Re: Sir F! Sounds like a great trip and I'll bet you were glad you finished the rodrather than just scrap it when you realised the taper had gone *wrong*.I hope you don't mind my using your experience to illistrate a point maderecently on the list that caused excessive frackus.Your comments re. the rod being great for fishing even though the finisheddimensions were wrong only makes the point that was made recently aboutthe*need?* to get expensive gear above and beyond the specific rod makersneed.It seems you have created a new taper that casts well, now if you wanted torepeat it *exactly* time after time again you'd need to be a lot morefussy and the gear required would prob warrent getting the very bestotherwise you'll still get a fine fishing rod, as you mentioned.*I AM NOT* suggesting expensive top shelf gear is not worth the money, Iagree the best is cheaper in the long run but if all that is needed are thetools to make a few *fishing* rods you can use gear a lot closer to thebottom shelf if that's all you can justify.I don't know what gear you are currently using but it's sort of beside thepoint because all I'm saying is precisely planing to an exact measurementisn't as important for one off rods provided all the splines are about thesame. Pretty close is close enough and pretty close is as close as therodmaker feels is right. Actually, if anybody wanted to make all rods exactly alike with a minimumfuss I'd forget planing forms and buy a Morgan Hand Mill. Now there's acouple of grand well spent. Tony At 08:06 PM 8/1/00 -0700, Doug & Lynn Collins wrote:I recently finished my first rod. It was supposed to be a Sir D!However, after the glue up one tip ended up 0.010 too wide and the other ended up 0.020 too wide!Since I had a fishing trip coming up and little time or cane to build a new tip I simply finished the rod.After all experience in varnishing and guide wrapping is useful. I fly up to northern British Columbia and went fishing for trout on The Dean river. The rod was a huge hit with the fishermen up there. Oddly the 0.010 too wide tip was not too useful, but the 0.020 too wide tip was great at casting a 5 weight double taper line. At some pools on The Dean I was catching a fish a cast. I was amazed that I could get a rod so wrong and end up with a useful rod. I think I'll call it "Sir F!" After getting new forms, and paying MUCH more attention, my second rod a PHY midge came out of the glue right on the money. Well I'm totally hooked. I have cane split for a Payne and a Dickerson after that. Thanks to all on the list server and their help. Doug Collins /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from channer1@rmi.net Wed Aug 2 01:35:25 2000 e726ZOG24147 Subject: Re: Nodeless glues Frank Olivieri wrote: Thanks all for your insightful responses. It seems that Titebond II and Shell Epon are quite suitable. I'm assumingthe Titebond II can be gotten almost anywhere. Is Stephenson Chem. Co.thesource for Epon resin 828 and Epi-Cure 3140? Another source? As for Glace Cotton Thread, I understand from a 1995 post that it wasinexpensive at Atlanta Thread & Supply Co. Now, is there a suitablealternative thread considering that the glued sections will not be goinginto the oven? Regards, Frank Frank;good old Coats&Clark , button carpet and crafts glace cotton coveredpolyester works for me, even in the heat treating oven, and you can getit at your local Mart of choice, about a buck a spool.John from billh@inmind.com Wed Aug 2 06:52:16 2000 e72BqFG27371 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 07:36:04 -0400 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Nodeless questions I pretty much follow the same procedure except: I heat treat before splitting into chopstix. And I roughly square the chopstix before I splice. This gives a good square cross section for the clamps to push against. Otherwise, the clamp pressure tends to pull the enamel side apart on some strips. Which leads to a question. Someone has recently mentioned a problem I have had with chopstix splitting square at one end, but going rhomboid at the other. I've discarded a lot of stix for this reason. Has anybody got a solution short of going noded? bill hoy At 09:05 PM 8/1/00, bob maulucci wrote:Hi Frank:See Chris Bogart's excellent site for a description. I pretty much do it his way. (A link to his site is at the Rodmakers site under Makers).When I do nodeless, I :* Flame the culm (If you are going to do it that way, but I like blond nodeless rods, flaming really makes the splices show)* Cut out the nodes. (Band saw works great!)* Mark my sections as to what order they came in the culm. (I mark the butt ends in colored markers using black, blue, green, purple, red. This way they are spliced to sections consecutively from butt to tip. If you look at the colors I use, you will notice it is alphabetical. Black sections come from the butt of the culm and red closest to the tip.)* Split the sections.* Heat treat all the chopsticks in the kitchen oven.* Plane the sections in the splice block. Alternate the splices between strips. (Do all the splices on the first strip with the enamel facing you in the splice block. Do the second strip facing away, etc....)* Use TB II to clamp sections together (I use three 1" Pony clamps per slice)* I square of the edges of each strip in a little form with a square notch down its length. Shallow for tips on one side, and deeper for butt sections on the other.* Rough plane* Final Plane* Glue* FinishI have had good success using Epon and Gorilla Glue for the rods. Just be aware that the Titebond II at the splices is susceptible to high heat. I would be wary of using heat to set the glue because of the TB II. That's why I started using Gorilla Glue instead of the Epon.Good luck, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 2 08:18:09 2000 e72DI8G29242 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:16:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless glues If you are going to make any tests, to compare glues, why not try one of thepoly urethane glues too ? They seem to be very user friendly, are notaffected by heat, and have great adhesion. Elmer's ProBond, and Gorilla are2 brands. Several have posted good results here. I got the ProBond for about$8 at Home Depot. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Nodeless glues Thanks all for your insightful responses. It seems that Titebond II and Shell Epon are quite suitable. I'm assumingthe Titebond II can be gotten almost anywhere. Is Stephenson Chem. Co.thesource for Epon resin 828 and Epi-Cure 3140? Another source? As for Glace Cotton Thread, I understand from a 1995 post that it wasinexpensive at Atlanta Thread & Supply Co. Now, is there a suitablealternative thread considering that the glued sections will not be goinginto the oven? Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 2 08:34:46 2000 e72DYjG29870 Subject: Re: Nodeless questions I really think the Tite Bond II is great for splices. They are very good on blonde rods. The Gorilla Glue leaves really ugly gray bubbly glue lines. I just check my splices while dry, anf if they are no perfect I redo them before gluing. That helps the lines stay close to invisible.Bob At 09:06 PM 8/1/00 -0600, you wrote:Bob, I can make 'invisible' splices using titebond, but when I tried Gorillaglue I could not get the splices to disappear -- there was always asmall, but definitely visible, glue line. Is this your experience too?Or have you found a way to avoid the glue lines? Thanks, Ed King bob maulucci wrote: Hi Frank:See Chris Bogart's excellent site for a description. I pretty much doit his way. (A link to his site is at the Rodmakers site under> > Makers).When I do nodeless, I : * Flame the culm (If you are going to do it that way, but I likeblond nodeless rods, flaming really makes the splices show)* Cut out the nodes. (Band saw works great!)* Mark my sections as to what order they came in the culm. (I markthe butt ends in colored markers using black, blue, green,purple, red. This way they are spliced to sections consecutively from butt to tip. If you look at the colors I use, you willnotice it is alphabetical. Black sections come from the butt ofthe culm and red closest to the tip.)* Split the sections.* Heat treat all the chopsticks in the kitchen oven.* Plane the sections in the splice block. Alternate the splicesbetween strips. (Do all the splices on the first strip with theenamel facing you in the splice block. Do the second strip facingaway, etc....)* Use TB II to clamp sections together (I use three 1" Pony clampsper slice)* I square of the edges of each strip in a little form with asquare notch down its length. Shallow for tips on one side, anddeeper for butt sections on the other.* Rough plane* Final Plane* Glue* Finish I have had good success using Epon and Gorilla Glue for the rods. Justbe aware that the Titebond II at the splices is susceptible to highheat. I would be wary of using heat to set the glue because of the TBII. That's why I started using Gorilla Glue instead of the Epon.Good luck, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 2 08:42:32 2000 e72DgVG00178 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Nodeless questions --=====================_3469135==_.ALT I was thinking of trying one where I split, and then I would cut out the nodes. That way the strips would be roughly the same dimension before splicing them. I don't know a solution to the squaring gone bad. I guess its just about what happens to me (quite often actually).Bob "Which leads to a question. Someone has recently mentioned a problem I have had with chopstix splitting square at one end, but going rhomboid at the other. I've discarded a lot of stix for this reason. Has anybody got a solution short of going noded?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_3469135==_.ALT I was thinking of trying one where I split, and then I wouldcut out the nodes. That way the strips would be roughly the samedimension before splicing them. I don't know a solution to the squaringgone bad. I guess its just about what happens to me (quite oftenactually).Bob "Which leads to a question. Someone has recently mentioned aproblem I have had with chopstix splitting square at one end, but goingrhomboid at the other. I've discarded a lot of stix for this reason. Hasanybody got a solution short of going noded?" Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_3469135==_.ALT-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Aug 2 08:47:00 2000 e72DkxG00420 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 06:46:54 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Nodeless glues Frank,A couple of alternatives. Russ at www.goldenwitch.com carries thethreads, and may be easier to get in touch with. I like Russ' stuff and theway he does business. I used plain old embroidery thread from WallyWorldforabout two dozen rods. It's not "Glace" or polished thread, but it works justfine. As I'm sure you know, you have to check to make sure that whateveryouget is pure cotton.As for Epon, I bought some from Bingham Products in Oklahoma, but I'mnotparticulary happy with it. The viscosity (sp) is so thick it's hard tospread. Harry Boyd from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Aug 2 09:04:42 2000 e72E4fG01217 ;Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:04:35 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Nodeless glues Harry, Art Port told me to use a toothbrush (a used one, of course!) to spreadEpon after I had a glue joint fail. I tried it and it works great. That's how I glue now. Dennis Harry Boyd wrote: Frank,A couple of alternatives. Russ at www.goldenwitch.com carries thethreads, and may be easier to get in touch with. I like Russ' stuff and theway he does business. I used plain old embroidery thread from WallyWorldforabout two dozen rods. It's not "Glace" or polished thread, but it works justfine. As I'm sure you know, you have to check to make sure that whateveryouget is pure cotton.As for Epon, I bought some from Bingham Products in Oklahoma, but I'mnotparticulary happy with it. The viscosity (sp) is so thick it's hard tospread. Harry Boyd from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Aug 2 09:37:33 2000 e72EbPG03023 JAA20012 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:37:24 Subject: Re: Nodeless questions Are you splitting your chunks in halves, or off the edge? I get better splits if I go halves. I have a coffee can full of old bolts on my bench, with a bungee cord knotted around it. I take one half of an internodal section (I split into halves before baking) and slip it under the bungee cord to hold it upright, mark my splits around the top with a flexible plastic ruler and pencil, and split near the middle to get two, the middle of the two to get 4 etc. Sometimes the last piece gets split into threes.Often there is a sliver to be discarded. But not too manyrhomboids.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Bill Hoy wrote: Which leads to a question. Someone has recently mentioned a problem Ihave had with chopstix splitting square at one end, but going rhomboid at the other. I've discarded a lot of stix for this reason. Has anybody got a solution short of going noded? bill hoy from billh@inmind.com Wed Aug 2 10:23:34 2000 e72FNXG04580 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:02:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Nodeless questions I've been splitting off the edge. The answer should have been obvious. thanks! I bill hoy At 10:37 AM 8/2/00, Frank Stetzer wrote:Are you splitting your chunks in halves, or off the edge? I get better splits if I go halves. I have a coffee can full ofold bolts on my bench, with a bungee cord knotted around it.I take one half of an internodal section (I split into halvesbefore baking) and slip it under the bungee cord to hold it upright,mark my splits around the top with a flexible plastic ruler andpencil, and split near the middle to get two, the middle of the twoto get 4 etc. Sometimes the last piece gets split into threes.Often there is a sliver to be discarded. But not too manyrhomboids.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Bill Hoy wrote: Which leads to a question. Someone has recently mentioned a problem Ihavehad with chopstix splitting square at one end, but going rhomboid at theother. I've discarded a lot of stix for this reason. Has anybody got asolution short of going noded? bill hoy from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Aug 2 10:27:34 2000 e72FRXG04903 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:26:45 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Nodeless glues off-list, someone wrote: Harry - ******* and I both use the same Epon from Bingham Prod. andapply it with the throw away acid flux brushes from the hardware store.We both do not mix the Epon aggresively. Use a plastic measuring cupand a knitting needle to mix it slowly. We both use a thermal cure andif there is air mixed in the Epon it will bubble out the ends of theshaft. Curing at room temperature leaves the air in the matrix. If theEpon turns a creamy color you have mixed a great deal of air in theepoxy. While the mix is pretty thick I have not encountered anyparticular difficulty spreadiing it on the strips. Friends,I guess I'm a little bit afraid of any epoxy that isn't mixedextremely well. If you ever have a batch of rod-wrapping epoxy fail to seton graphite rods, then you know what causes me the fear. Funny, but when Italked with the folks at Bingham, they suggested that if it doesn't turn acreamy tan, then it isn't mixed well enough...... I didn't mean to implythat the thickness of the Bingham Epon made it un-usable, just that I prefera little thinner glue. I plan on continuing to use this glue till it'sgone, and that should be about 15- 20 more rods. Next stop on the parade ofglues will probably be Urac with the after market catalyst, or maybe back toNyatex.I mix the glue in plastic measuring cups, stirring with atoothpick. Then I spread the glue with a new, cheap toothbrush.I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the "stickiness" of theBingham Epon makes straightening the section before the glue sets a littlemore tedious. That may well be just my perception. In my unscientific,highly subjective experience, it just seems tougher to get sectionsstraight with this glue than it did with the Nyatex I originally used.Remember, this is the Bingham Epon. Don't know the numbers, but I'm surethis is a different formulation than the Epon Chris Bogart and othersrecommend.One thing I have done that helps thin the epoxy a little is "nuke"it for a few seconds in the microwave. It gets thin quickly. And I keep itin a plastic cup floating in warm tap water. But of course, that speeds upthe initial cure time, from about 3 hours to about 2.5 hours.I let the glue air-cure for 12-18 hours, then remove the bindingcord. I also rinse off most of the excess glue with ordinary vinegar. ThenI rebind, and heat set the Epon for 4 hours at 185* F. Bingham says theirEpon MUST be heat set, so I just do what they say.Guess I ought to add one more qualifier. My rods aren't nodeless.They average 2.33 nodes per section for 3 piece rods. So all the aboveapplies to standard, "node-full" methods. If I'm long-winded, it's becauseI want to add all the disclaimers I can after having been recentlymisunderstood and quoted out of context...... Harry from captvonbek@earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 10:44:53 2000 e72FirG05743 IAA25415 Subject: re: Nodeless Glues Yes, I suspected some of these chemicals might be inaccessible for thenon- business owner. When I was younger I worked in my father's ( plays theharp now)auto body/fiberglass repair shop and did frequently purchasechemicals. If it was a company we had never ordered from, we clearly had toestablish that we were a business with the proper business and tax numbers. Now, I've read (Howell, 1998), and I've heard, here I believe, that Nyatexdoes not have to be heat treated and that a week or two( which may be thedeterrent for many) will set the epoxy. Titebond II is heat sensitive whether I use it with Epon or Nyatex. Is thiscorrect? Now, perhaps I will not be able to obtain Nyatex in the same way I will notbe able to obtain Shell Epon. Hmm. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from richjez@enteract.com Wed Aug 2 11:21:10 2000 e72GLAG06850 Subject: Oven --=====================_11656307==_.ALT I have seen a drawing of a vertical heat gun oven. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the copy I made or it or its web location. Can someone direct me to a location with the oven? thanks Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_11656307==_.ALT I have seen a drawing of a vertical heat gun oven.Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the copy I made or it or its weblocation. Can someone direct me to a location with the oven? thanks Rich Jezioro *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_11656307==_.ALT-- from steve@hamiltonrods.com Wed Aug 2 11:21:40 2000 e72GLeG06927 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Nodeless Glues e72GLeG06928 The nice thing about Nyatex, though, is that it *can* be heat treated todrastically speed up the set time (10-15 minutes in my heat oven). Am I theonly one who does this? 'Course that wouldn't work well with nodeless rods built with TBII. --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: re: Nodeless Glues Now, I've read (Howell, 1998), and I've heard, here I believe, that Nyatexdoes not have to be heat treated and that a week or two( which may be thedeterrent for many) will set the epoxy. from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 2 11:35:45 2000 e72GZiG07395 Subject: Re: Oven --=====================_13864025==_.ALT http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.htmlLook under articles.Best regards,Bob At 08:51 AM 8/2/00 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote:I have seen a drawing of a vertical heat gun oven. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the copy I made or it or its web location. Can someone direct me to a location with the oven? thanks Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > / \ > ))):> --=====================_13864025==_.ALT-- from steve@hamiltonrods.com Wed Aug 2 12:02:53 2000 e72H2qG08168 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Snake Brand group order e72H2rG08169 I'm putting together an order for SnakeBrand guides ( from Mike McCoy) andwould like to take advantage of the 40% large-order discount. If you areinterested in participating, please contact me OFF-LIST. I'll take participantson a first-come-first-served basis until I reach the $1000 retail mark--with aminimum per-person order amount of $100 retail. You do *not* need to knowyour exact order right now, just a commitment that you want to participate--you'll have until Monday to decide exactly what you need. I'm going to assume that you are familiar with the sizes and styles of thestripping guides, snake guides, and tip tops that Mike sells. For questions,please refer to http://www.snakeguides.com. Special-order items that willslow shipment will not be allowed. --Steve from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Aug 2 13:00:39 2000 e72I0cG09805 0400 Subject: RE: Scrapers This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFCAC.D0194A1B Thanks, everyone, for your responses...Andy-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Scrapers I use a lie nielson scraper plane, sharpened and set properly it cantake off a shaving so thin it is transparent. It's a bit priceythoughand I can do the same thing with a properly sharpened cabinet scraperheld in the hand, this costs about $5.00. I can't get nearly as finewith a block plane. Mike ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFCAC.D0194A1B RE: Scrapers Thanks, everyone, for your responses...Andy-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of mepSent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:01 AM Cc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Scrapers I use a lie nielson scraper plane, sharpened and setproperly it can bit pricey thoughand I can do the same thing with a properly sharpenedcabinet scraperheld in the hand, this costs about $5.00. I can't getnearly as finewith a block plane. Mike ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFCAC.D0194A1B-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Aug 2 13:08:24 2000 e72I8NG10198 Aug 2000 14:08:08 -0400 Subject: Parabolic rods As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become more and moreimpressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod that can cast farther than afast rod. As much as the plastic rod makers want you to believe a fast rodwill cast farther than a slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. A parabolichas a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the full length of the rod toparticipate in the cast, with the stiff mid giving the "punch" to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition from plasticrods, but I now believe that to truly appreciate a bamboo rod you have tograduate to a parabolic bamboo rod. A parabolic isn't real easy to cast atfirst especially if you are used to a plastic rod, but if you give it time and useit a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing, you will be wellrewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite I think they willhave something that will be very popular.Darryl from captvonbek@earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 13:19:28 2000 e72IJRG10564 LAA06586 Subject: Wayne Cattanach's book Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this book these days. I checkedAngler Art and all the other renound cane rod building booksellers. I knowthere's a new edition coming soon, but, of course, I'm anxious to readmore. If you have a source, I'd appreciate it. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Aug 2 13:50:40 2000 e72IodG11658 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's book Well - the new version is being shipped at this very time - I saw my firstcopy on friday - it is one of those projects that are fun to start - butalso great to have behind you Wayne ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wayne Cattanach's book Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this book these days. IcheckedAngler Art and all the other renound cane rod building booksellers. I knowthere's a new edition coming soon, but, of course, I'm anxious to readmore. If you have a source, I'd appreciate it. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Wed Aug 2 14:01:29 2000 e72J1NG12066 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:01:17 -0700 Wed, 02 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Re: Parabolic rods FILETIME=[0990F170:01BFFCB4] Sir D, I agree. I have built 2 Driggs and have orders for 2 more from folks who have cast them. I like paras, but it does take some getting used to. I have a buddy who owns a fly shop who cannot cast the Driggs to save his life. I have tried to get him to slow down, but it is that plastic (Sage) mentality that gets in his way. my best, Rob From: DNHayashida@aol.com Subject: Parabolic rodsDate: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:08:08 EDT As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become more and more impressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod that can cast farther than a fast rod. As much as the plastic rod makers want you to believe a fast rod will cast farther than a slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. A parabolic has a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the full length of the rod to participate in the cast, with the stiff mid giving the "punch" to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition from plastic rods, but I now believe that to truly appreciate a bamboo rod you have to graduate to a parabolic bamboo rod. A parabolic isn't real easy to cast at first especially if you are used to a plastic rod, but if you give it time and use it a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing, you will be well rewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite I think they will have something that will be very popular.Darryl ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from steve@hamiltonrods.com Wed Aug 2 15:04:05 2000 e72K44G14076 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Snake Brand group order e72K45G14077 I am following this up to let you know that I've got enough participants to fillthe group order. If you wanted to participate but weren't checking email allday long, I apologize. There will be other opportunities. --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Snake Brand group order I'm putting together an order for SnakeBrand guides ( from Mike McCoy)and would like to take advantage of the 40% large-order discount. If you areinterested in participating, please contact me OFF-LIST. I'll take participantson a first-come-first-served basis until I reach the $1000 retail mark--with aminimum per-person order amount of $100 retail. You do *not* need to knowyour exact order right now, just a commitment that you want to participate--you'll have until Monday to decide exactly what you need. I'm going to assume that you are familiar with the sizes and styles of thestripping guides, snake guides, and tip tops that Mike sells. For questions,please refer to http://www.snakeguides.com. Special-order items that willslow shipment will not be allowed. --Steve from captvonbek@earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 15:26:21 2000 e72KQJG14868 NAA09138 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book Thanks everyone. Will preorder from Amazon. I was reading some of the older posts on building Wayne's oven so I'mlooking forward to reading up on that in his book. Indeed, that isdefinitely something I can build with some duct and supplies from, forgiveme, The Home Depot. Now, certainly, going nodeless doesn't necessarily require more that theold kitchen oven, but on the other hand, my wife is a cookasuarus andpulling out one of her dishes to replace with my bamboo may leave me hungrysome evenings. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 2 15:33:44 2000 e72KXiG15248; Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book The bamboo is rather stinky in the kitchen anyway, but it sure is nice to be able to pop it in a real oven.Bob At 04:24 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Frank Olivieri wrote:Thanks everyone. Will preorder from Amazon. I was reading some of the older posts on building Wayne's oven so I'mlooking forward to reading up on that in his book. Indeed, that isdefinitely something I can build with some duct and supplies from, forgiveme, The Home Depot. Now, certainly, going nodeless doesn't necessarily require more that theold kitchen oven, but on the other hand, my wife is a cookasuarus andpulling out one of her dishes to replace with my bamboo may leave mehungrysome evenings. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Aug 2 15:34:13 2000 e72KYCG15336 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Wayne Cattanach's book You can get it at the Amazon link below... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/155821769X/anglerscollectib I'm going to stock it as well, but it's cheaper at Amazon... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Wayne Cattanach's book Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this book these days. I checkedAngler Art and all the other renound cane rod building booksellers. I knowthere's a new edition coming soon, but, of course, I'm anxious to readmore. If you have a source, I'd appreciate it. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Aug 2 15:41:18 2000 e72KfHG15689 NAA09570 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: ovens saw a cooking show yesterday and they said that if you put a big squarepizza stone "on" the elements or burners in either a electric or gas stove,one the size of the bottom of the stove, that it evens out the temperaturesand eliminates the temperature fluctuations. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Aug 2 16:01:16 2000 e72L1GG16499 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:01:09 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book Bob,BITE YOUR TONGUE!! The smell of cooking bamboo is far from "stinky".Weall know that there is no sweeter aroma than that of cane browning in theheat!;^) Couldn't resist!Shawn bob maulucci wrote: The bamboo is rather stinky in the kitchen anyway, but it sure is nice tobe able to pop it in a real oven.Bob At 04:24 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Frank Olivieri wrote:Thanks everyone. Will preorder from Amazon. I was reading some of the older posts on building Wayne's oven so I'mlooking forward to reading up on that in his book. Indeed, that isdefinitely something I can build with some duct and supplies from, forgiveme, The Home Depot. Now, certainly, going nodeless doesn't necessarily require more that theold kitchen oven, but on the other hand, my wife is a cookasuarus andpulling out one of her dishes to replace with my bamboo may leave mehungrysome evenings. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Aug 2 16:36:37 2000 e72LaaG17832 ;Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:36:30 +0000 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book I dunno, Bob. I kinda like the smell. The whole concept reminds me ofa line from a Vietnam War movie... Smells like... Well, you know. Dennis bob maulucci wrote: The bamboo is rather stinky in the kitchen anyway, but it sure is nice tobe able to pop it in a real oven.Bob At 04:24 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Frank Olivieri wrote:Thanks everyone. Will preorder from Amazon. I was reading some of the older posts on building Wayne's oven so I'mlooking forward to reading up on that in his book. Indeed, that isdefinitely something I can build with some duct and supplies from, forgiveme, The Home Depot. Now, certainly, going nodeless doesn't necessarily require more that theold kitchen oven, but on the other hand, my wife is a cookasuarus andpulling out one of her dishes to replace with my bamboo may leave mehungrysome evenings. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 2 16:43:46 2000 e72LhjG18122 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book Farnk,Doesn't she ever eat Chinese? Ever smell the bamboo shoots cooking?Wassadiff?Art At 04:24 PM 08/02/2000 -0400, Frank Olivieri wrote:Thanks everyone. Will preorder from Amazon. I was reading some of the older posts on building Wayne's oven so I'mlooking forward to reading up on that in his book. Indeed, that isdefinitely something I can build with some duct and supplies from, forgiveme, The Home Depot. Now, certainly, going nodeless doesn't necessarily require more that theold kitchen oven, but on the other hand, my wife is a cookasuarus andpulling out one of her dishes to replace with my bamboo may leave mehungrysome evenings. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 2 16:44:24 2000 e72LiJG18204 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:42:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's book It's supposedly delayed until Fall now ! I ordered it in Jan., and June wassupposed to be the delivery date. Now I'm told it's delayed again. I got thevideo, but not the book. How about it Wayne ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wayne Cattanach's book Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this book these days. IcheckedAngler Art and all the other renound cane rod building booksellers. I knowthere's a new edition coming soon, but, of course, I'm anxious to readmore. If you have a source, I'd appreciate it. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 2 16:45:10 2000 e72Lj9G18363 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:43:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's book Thanks for the tip ! I'll call tomorrow, and bug them ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's book Well - the new version is being shipped at this very time - I saw my firstcopy on friday - it is one of those projects that are fun to start - butalso great to have behind you Wayne ----- Original Message -----From: Frank Olivieri Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:17 PMSubject: Wayne Cattanach's book Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this book these days. IcheckedAngler Art and all the other renound cane rod building booksellers. Iknowthere's a new edition coming soon, but, of course, I'm anxious to readmore. If you have a source, I'd appreciate it. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 2 16:47:34 2000 e72LlXG18581 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Wayne Cattanach's book I'm going to stock it as well, but it's cheaper at Amazon... Darrellwww.vfish.net Darrell, Do you know what "mensch" means -- all the way out there in CA?Art from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 2 17:08:55 2000 e72M8sG19458 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book, Stinky bamboo Tell that to SWMBO. At 05:57 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Bob,BITE YOUR TONGUE!! The smell of cooking bamboo is far from "stinky". Weall know that there is no sweeter aroma than that of cane browning in the heat!;^) Couldn't resist!Shawn bob maulucci wrote: The bamboo is rather stinky in the kitchen anyway, but it sure is nice tobe able to pop it in a real oven.Bob At 04:24 PM 8/2/00 -0400, Frank Olivieri wrote:Thanks everyone. Will preorder from Amazon. I was reading some of the older posts on building Wayne's oven so I'mlooking forward to reading up on that in his book. Indeed, that isdefinitely something I can build with some duct and supplies from,forgive> > >me, The Home Depot. Now, certainly, going nodeless doesn't necessarily require more that theold kitchen oven, but on the other hand, my wife is a cookasuarus andpulling out one of her dishes to replace with my bamboo may leave me hungrysome evenings. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from stpete@netten.net Wed Aug 2 17:24:08 2000 e72MO8G20053 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:35:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Darryl, I agree wholeheartedly. Although I am not a true proficient at castingparabolics, I do occassionally hit the right timing and the results couldn't besweeter. Swing easy, cast far. Sort of like the mantra my scratch golferdad used to whisper to me. "It's all about club head speed", he'd say, "notpower". Well, I never played enough to be very good at golf, but I have gottenbetter at para casting. My fishing friends look at me like I'm crazy andcontinue to hand the paras back to me, picking up instead the Sir D or thePayne 101. But I'm solidly hooked on parabolics because of the easy, slowcasting and the amazingly long casts one is able to make with such littleeffort. I like to explain this phenomenon by using the prehistoric weapon, the atl- atl,or spearthrower. These weapons were regularly found in prehistoricanthropological digs. They are short (2-3 feet usually) sticks with a hookedend into which the hollowed end of a short to medium length, oftenfeathered, spear was mounted. The hunter held the atl-atl with the throwinghand and balanced the spear in throwing position with a spare finger or two. When thrown,the atl-atl acted as a lever to increase the distance and thus the speed ofthe throwing motion. This primative instrument increased the speed andpower of the spear throw many times that possible by hands and arms alone. In fact, an anthropologist theorized that the Wooly Mammoth was probablyhunted to extinction by man using such weapons. He went to Africa to testhis theory on an elephant carcass. A simple 4 ft spear easily penetrated anddealtkilling type blows to the carcass. In fact, he was able to throw a spearthrough a car door quite easily with the atl-atl. Why all this anthropological gobblety-gook? Simply that the stiff middle actsexactly like an atl-atl. The critical part of the cast is to control the powerand timing of that levering type action. Once accomplished, the caster willimmediately know what's up. Simply amazing. And very satisfying. Extreme parabolics like the Driggs I made, are definitely tools which will divideflycasters into two camps. Those who do - and those who don't. Rick C. DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become more and moreimpressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod that can cast farther than afast rod. As much as the plastic rod makers want you to believe a fast rodwill cast farther than a slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. A parabolichas a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the full length of the rod toparticipate in the cast, with the stiff mid giving the "punch" to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition from plasticrods, but I now believe that to truly appreciate a bamboo rod you have tograduate to a parabolic bamboo rod. A parabolic isn't real easy to cast atfirst especially if you are used to a plastic rod, but if you give it time and useit a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing, you will be wellrewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite I think they willhave something that will be very popular.Darryl from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 2 17:28:45 2000 e72MSgG20232 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:27:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods You and PHY would have had a great time ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Darryl, I agree wholeheartedly. Although I am not a true proficient at castingparabolics, I do occassionally hit the right timing and the results couldn'tbe sweeter. Swing easy, cast far. Sort of like the mantra my scratchgolfer dad used to whisper to me. "It's all about club head speed", he'dsay, "not power". Well, I never played enough to be very good at golf, butI have gotten better at para casting. My fishing friends look at me likeI'm crazy andcontinue to hand the paras back to me, picking up instead the Sir D or thePayne 101. But I'm solidly hooked on parabolics because of the easy, slowcasting and the amazingly long casts one is able to make with such littleeffort. I like to explain this phenomenon by using the prehistoric weapon, theatl-atl, or spearthrower. These weapons were regularly found in prehistoricanthropological digs. They are short (2-3 feet usually) sticks with ahooked end into which the hollowed end of a short to medium length, oftenfeathered, spear was mounted. The hunter held the atl-atl with the throwinghand and balanced the spear in throwing position with a spare finger or two.When thrown,the atl-atl acted as a lever to increase the distance and thus the speedof the throwing motion. This primative instrument increased the speed andpower of the spear throw many times that possible by hands and arms alone.In fact, an anthropologist theorized that the Wooly Mammoth was probablyhunted to extinction by man using such weapons. He went to Africa to testhis theory on an elephant carcass. A simple 4 ft spear easily penetratedand dealtkilling type blows to the carcass. In fact, he was able to throw a spearthrough a car door quite easily with the atl-atl. Why all this anthropological gobblety-gook? Simply that the stiff middleacts exactly like an atl-atl. The critical part of the cast is to controlthe power and timing of that levering type action. Once accomplished, thecaster will immediately know what's up. Simply amazing. And verysatisfying. Extreme parabolics like the Driggs I made, are definitely tools which willdivide flycasters into two camps. Those who do - and those who don't. Rick C. DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become more and moreimpressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod that can cast farther than afast rod. As much as the plastic rod makers want you to believe a fast rodwill cast farther than a slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. Aparabolic has a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the full lengthof the rod to participate in the cast, with the stiff mid giving the "punch"to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition fromplastic rods, but I now believe that to truly appreciate a bamboo rod youhave to graduate to a parabolic bamboo rod. A parabolic isn't real easy tocast at first especially if you are used to a plastic rod, but if you giveit time and use it a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing, youwill be well rewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite I think theywill have something that will be very popular.Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Aug 2 17:48:04 2000 e72Mm3G20822 Aug 2000 18:47:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods That's exactly what I thought of when I finally fell into the proper timing tocast the parabolic rod I made.Darryl from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Aug 2 17:55:26 2000 e72MtPG21146 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?A_fast_#5_-_8=B4?= e72MtQG21147 Dear Fellow Listers A client of mine wants me to build him an 8 foot #5,somewhat fast, for nymphing (?!?) The guy is a recent convert to cane, so his oldSage habits are still very much present. (hedid try a "The Force", but found it too slow!!!!) Any ideas welcomed, since being a paraholic myself I'venever made anything like the rod he wants. So pleeeaase help a fellow rodmaker in distress! regards,carsten from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Aug 2 19:09:21 2000 e7309KG22791 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Nodeless glues You can get 100% cotton crochet thread at a place like Wal-mart for about$2. It will be enough to wrap about a dozen rods. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:37 AMCc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Nodeless glues Frank Olivieri wrote: Thanks all for your insightful responses. It seems that Titebond II and Shell Epon are quitesuitable. I'm assumingthe Titebond II can be gotten almost anywhere. IsStephenson Chem. Co. thesource for Epon resin 828 and Epi-Cure 3140? Another source? As for Glace Cotton Thread, I understand from a 1995 postthat it wasinexpensive at Atlanta Thread & Supply Co. Now, is there a suitablealternative thread considering that the glued sections willnot be goinginto the oven? Regards, Frank Frank;good old Coats&Clark , button carpet and crafts glace cotton coveredpolyester works for me, even in the heat treating oven, andyou can getit at your local Mart of choice, about a buck a spool.John from bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com Wed Aug 2 19:11:38 2000 e730BbG22928 2000 17:11:31 PDT Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's book Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's bookWayne, Can we on the list buy it from direct you with an autograph?Would you get more of the money that way?Best of luck,Joe =====Joe MulveyStoneham, MAwww.mulvey.eboard.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from captvonbek@earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 19:15:09 2000 e730F8G23101 RAA11847 Subject: Insight It occurred to me a little while ago, for a split-second only, after havingreceived some insight from another listmember, that I may be a bit of apain in the arse here with all my questions. But, then, it was gone, and Irealized that I'm just being my enthusiastic, discerning, and some timeswhen faced with certain questions, neurotic self. No other. I am new, shopping around for tools I can get at low prices, purchasingsome for higher prices, carefully discerning what are the best things thatare obtainable. Hopefully, I might, in the future, build other necessaryitems with what I have available to me. As long as I am a member of this list, I will not characterize anothermember or criticize another for the way they ask questions and go aboutdeciding on how they are going to enter this art. If we all came out of thesame oven and were binded with the same darn thread and dressed with thesame darn materials, shite, we'd all be casting the same darn cane fly rod. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Wed Aug 2 19:17:42 2000 e730HgG23280 channer1@rmi.net Subject: RE: Nodeless glues you might want to check the local yellow pages for an commercial aphostelrysupply or repair shop.i got a 2 pound spool (i don't know the length off hand but it's severalthousand feet) of glace (or glazed - meaning to burnish the thread to removethe "fuzzies") cotton thread from the local shop in Pittsburgh, pa (i'vesince moved).since then i've wrapped and finnished six rods (including a 12'9" threepiece spey) and can't tell that i've even dented the supply yet. the spoolwas around $35-40. it comes in quite a range of sizes and colors (i think wayne has adiscussion of commercial thread weights in his book. just my two cents. chris -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Nodeless glues You can get 100% cotton crochet thread at a place like Wal-mart for about$2. It will be enough to wrap about a dozen rods. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:37 AMCc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Nodeless glues Frank Olivieri wrote: Thanks all for your insightful responses. It seems that Titebond II and Shell Epon are quitesuitable. I'm assumingthe Titebond II can be gotten almost anywhere. IsStephenson Chem. Co. thesource for Epon resin 828 and Epi-Cure 3140? Another source? As for Glace Cotton Thread, I understand from a 1995 postthat it wasinexpensive at Atlanta Thread & Supply Co. Now, is there a suitablealternative thread considering that the glued sections willnot be goinginto the oven? Regards, Frank Frank;good old Coats&Clark , button carpet and crafts glace cotton coveredpolyester works for me, even in the heat treating oven, andyou can getit at your local Mart of choice, about a buck a spool.John from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 2 19:19:09 2000 e730J8G23427 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods That's exactly what I thought of Okay, guys, lets see a show of hands. How many fellas are intopre-Columbian archaeology? :-) I think we just cranked the level of this group up two levels ofesoterica! And we thought this was arcane stuff BEFORE!!!!!!!Yay!Art from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Aug 2 19:36:37 2000 e730abG24085 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Parabolic rods One of the shortcomings I've found with parabolic rods is something Ihadn't considered or come across on this list. Because the rod bends sodeeply, the line is actually traveling lower to the ground than with afaster action rod. So, if you need to wade deep, or fish from a float tube,no matter how high you try to throw your back cast with something like an 8ft para 15, it is as if you are fishing a shorter rod. It is difficult tokeep the line off the water at this depth. If you are fishing from the bank, wading shallow, or standing in a boat,then then paras have room to shine. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: Parabolic rods As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become moreand more impressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod thatcan cast farther than a fast rod. As much as the plastic rodmakers want you to believe a fast rod will cast farther thana slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. A parabolichas a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the fulllength of the rod to participate in the cast, with the stiffmid giving the "punch" to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition from plastic rods, but I now believe that to truly appreciatea bamboo rod you have to graduate to a parabolic bamboo rod.A parabolic isn't real easy to cast at first especially ifyou are used to a plastic rod, but if you give it time anduse it a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing,you will be well rewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite Ithink they will have something that will be very popular.Darryl from freaner@home.com Wed Aug 2 19:46:37 2000 e730kaG24517 0700 Subject: Flyfishing archaeology; was Parabolic rods At 8:21 PM -0400 , 8/2/00, Art Port wrote about Re: Parabolic rods Okay, guys, lets see a show of hands. How many fellas are intopre-Columbian archaeology? :-)I think we just cranked the level of this group up two levels ofesoterica! And we thought this was arcane stuff BEFORE!!!!!!! The earliest recorded instance of "flyfishing" is from a cave drawing in one of the caverns in France. Og and Ug, two brothers, had been hip-deep in the cold water for several hours. Other than freezing their...toes...off, all they had to show for their efforts was a small minnow that just the size of Og's littlest finger. They both knew that their father, Blog, would not be happy! Just as they were about to give up for the day and slink back to the cave with almost nothing, Og spotted an Osprey flying upstream towards them. It was carrying a really nice-sized fish (painting looks like an Atlantic Salmon...), and was having difficulty staying airborne. Ug, being a bit quicker in that new thing called "thought", quickly whipped out his sling, grabbed a black rock from the river bed where he was standing, spun it around with the sling and let fly at the Osprey. Unfortunately, he was no a very good shot with the sling, being more attuned to the shorter and heavier atl-atl and spear, which were made from that neat bamboo that grew near the cave. Og, on the other hand, while a slower "thinker", was a much better shot with the sling. He also grabbed a black rock, put it in his sling and let fly at the Osprey which had changed course from the near-miss by Ug's rock and was headed for shore and away from the two intrepid fisher-persons. Og's black rock hit it's mark and the Osprey let out a loud scream and dropped the large fish onto the grass alongside the river, then flew away, obviously barely able to keep itself in the air. The two fisher-persons, Og and Ug, hurried to the spot where the fish was flopping around and quickly dispatched it. Gathering up their spears and putting away their slings, they quickly headed back to the cave to present their catch to Blog. Upon arrival at the cave, Blog's mate Blag grabbed the fish and took it off to prepare it for dinner - she knew that Og and Ug would ruin it for eating if they were allowed to try to clean and cook it. Blog was feeling good, having discovered that some dried berries he had hidden in the back of the cave had gotten wet and had a strange but nice new flavor. He pounded both boys on the back and asked them how they'd managed to get such a fine fish without putting any spear holes in it. Well, after they had explained what happened, Blog went over to the cave wall, took out his paints, and began to record the event - he decided that hitting the flying bird carrying a fish should be called "fly-fishing" and declared that only the smartest and finest cave-persons could be called "fly-fishers". Then he went over and smacked Ug a good one, and told him to go out and practice with his bamboo atl-atl and spear some more, because everyone knew that you needed bamboo instead of a black rock to knock down an eagle carrying a really big fish. from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Wed Aug 2 20:53:41 2000 e731reG26141 Subject: Re: Flyfishing archaeology; was Parabolic rods That was quite enlightening. Kevin from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Aug 2 20:57:48 2000 e731vlG26355 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:57:38 -0700 Subject: Re: A fast #5 - =?iso-8859-1?Q?8=B4?= Carsten,I would highly recommend The Mystery Rod listedunder the Grayrock tapers on the rodmakers page. DennisHigham has the original, and it's a real rocket. I modifiedthat taper into a 3 piece, and it's not quite so stiff, butstill very fast. I'd be glad to share my incarnation of thetaper with you. Harry Boyd Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Dear Fellow Listers A client of mine wants me to build him an 8 foot #5,somewhat fast, for nymphing (?!?) The guy is a recent convert to cane, so his oldSage habits are still very much present. (hedid try a "The Force", but found it too slow!!!!) Any ideas welcomed, since being a paraholic myself I'venever made anything like the rod he wants. So pleeeaase help a fellow rodmaker in distress! regards,carsten --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Aug 2 21:02:33 2000 e7322WG26548 Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:02:27 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Rick Crenshaw wrote: I like to explain this phenomenon by using the prehistoric weapon, the atl-atl, or spearthrower...... (lots of snips) Rick,I can't cast an atl-atl any better than I can a parabolic. And yes, I havetried them both. One of the oldest native American civilizations known, 6000BC I think, had its hub about 40 miles north of here. The friendly folks atPoverty Point State Commemorative Area let me try to "chunk a spear"when I took a group of senior citizens from the Church for a tour up there. Ilooked more silly than SWMBO trying to cast a flyrod. Harry - para-hater - Boyd(Though I do like "The Force")--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from captvonbek@earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 21:38:52 2000 e732cpG27930 TAA28270 Subject: re: Nodeless Glues Jojo, from what I've gathered, one must have a business to purchase chemicals from that company. I did not call them myself, however, to confirm this. Ifconfirm this or the contrary, please do. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Aug 2 21:49:00 2000 e732mwG28304 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:47:01 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Parabolic rods The Australian Aborigines use a thing called a "woomera" which is the sameas an atl atl. An anthropologist friend of mine has several of these alongwith a collection of short hardwood-tipped, bamboo spears which aredownright lethal. The Aboriginal word for them roughly translates to "nightspears" because they travel so fast that they are invisible. Tests haveshown that a woomera is capable of propelling one of these spears to avelocity roughly equivalent to that of a revolver bullet! Hows that? Mike from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Aug 2 22:20:59 2000 e733KwG29292 Subject: Re: Oven Just finished a Frank Neunemann oven. Build it just like his drawing and itwill hold tmepeerature within 10 degrees F after 30 min. I did insulate theOD with fiberglas and it heats well with a 1400 watt gun. Dennis-----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Oven http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.htmlLook under articles.Best regards,Bob At 08:51 AM 8/2/00 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote:I have seen a drawing of a vertical heat gun oven. Unfortunately, I can'tseem to find the copy I made or it or its web location. Can someone direct me to a location with the oven? thanks Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > > / \ >))):> from channer1@rmi.net Wed Aug 2 22:25:20 2000 e733PJG29458 Subject: Re: A fast #5 - =?iso-8859-1?Q?8=B4?= Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Dear Fellow Listers A client of mine wants me to build him an 8 foot #5,somewhat fast, for nymphing (?!?) The guy is a recent convert to cane, so his oldSage habits are still very much present. (hedid try a "The Force", but found it too slow!!!!) Any ideas welcomed, since being a paraholic myself I'venever made anything like the rod he wants. So pleeeaase help a fellow rodmaker in distress! regards,carstenCarsten;Dickerson 8013 is a very nice fast action 5wt.John from saweiss@flash.net Wed Aug 2 23:32:49 2000 e734WmG01615 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods does anyone have a taper for an atl-atl? atl-atl, or spearthrower>> That's exactly what I thought of Okay, guys, lets see a show of hands. How many fellas are intopre-Columbian archaeology? :-)I think we just cranked the level of this group up two levels ofesoterica! And we thought this was arcane stuff BEFORE!!!!!!!Yay!Art from ddeloach@pcisys.net Thu Aug 3 00:15:16 2000 e735FGG03036 Subject: PERFECT reels Listers, what reels does everyone match with their rods? I'mb particularlyinterested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 - 8 1/2footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signature machineddisc(made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inches below thewinding check. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Thu Aug 3 00:57:52 2000 e735vpG04359 Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:57:45 PDT Subject: Re: PERFECT reels bamboo seam to go together. Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: "Don DeLoach" Subject: PERFECT reelsDate: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:16:29 -0600 Listers, what reels does everyone match with their rods? I'mb particularlyinterested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 - 8 1/2footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signature machineddisc(made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inches below thewinding check. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from EM11EM22@aol.com Thu Aug 3 01:00:53 2000 e7360rG04552 Subject: PERFECT reels You can't beat the sound of a Hardy Featherweight, with a Feather River Rainbow biting your dry fly and rocketing downstream................(7 1/2 ft., 5wt., 2 piece, Simroe/Leonard blank)Regards,Ed LLBean 3-4 Signature machineddisc (made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inches below the winding check.>> from timklein@uswest.net Thu Aug 3 01:27:17 2000 e736RGG05366 (63.225.240.141) Subject: Re: PERFECT reels I'm still partial to Bill Ballan's reels. I now own four of them (various sizes) and use them almost exclusively. ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: PERFECT reels You can't beat the sound of a Hardy Featherweight, with a Feather RiverRainbow biting your dry fly and rocketing downstream................(7 1/2 ft., 5wt., 2 piece, Simroe/Leonard blank)Regards,Ed interested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 - 8 1/2 footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signature machineddisc (made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inches below the winding check.>> from cattanac@wmis.net Thu Aug 3 01:43:02 2000 e736h1G05795 Subject: Re: Insight Frank -Some of us can reflect back far enough to remember when there wasn'ttheavailable information on bamboo rodmaking - there was 'The Book' and thatwas about it - one was left to struggle on their own - and many did. Thelast 10 years has brought a great linkage to those wanting to make rods andthe information to do it with - but also - I think there is more - a sort ofmentorship as well - the coach and cheerleader thing that helps spur folksalong. But one thing that you will see as well is this. We all have our ownlittle ways and sometimes we don't agree on which is the absolute besttechnique or tool to do a certain aspect. If you don't believe that justread the different books that are now available. The availablility of theinformation is great - but there comes a time when one has to jump in andstart to buy the education - and believe me we all have a shelf full of 'the things that went wrong'. But that is part of any new adventure.Another element that some new folks don't see or appreciate when theyfirst start today is this - the best bamboo fly rods ever made are beingmade today. And those making them have spend years to develope the 'Zen'that you see displayed in their work - you can see it - you can talk aboutit - but it is learned one rod at a time over years - that is the one thingthat unfortunately can't be shared as some would like - Best of Luck from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Aug 3 05:54:56 2000 e73AssG09465 Subject: Ovens Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BFFD8C.06B46E40 Hello Tony Have found a piece of surplus galvanised ducting 60" long, and 12" by =12" in section at a firm that makes air conditioning ducting for =building contractors. They will put a cap on one end and sell it to me =along with enough foil- backed insulwool to insulate it for $30; and a =veterinarian in a little town called Longford near here has an old =laboratory oven in his back shed with a perfectly good thermostat and =heat probe which I can have for nothing ( although the "nothing" will =probably translate to a dozen or so flies ) if I cart the thing to the =tip for him. So the question is this - how much wattage do you think I need in the =heating element department to get adequate thermal response in this 5 =cubic foot oven. I was planning to use second hand elements from =electric ovens, which are available by the kazillion from the local tip =recycling shop, but have no idea how many watts would be appropriate. Keep healthy petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BFFD8C.06B46E40 Hello Tony Have found a piece of surplus = 60" long, and 12" by 12" in section at a firm that makes air = it to me along with enough foil- backed insulwool to insulate it for = veterinarian in a little town called Longford near here has an old = oven in his back shed with a perfectly good thermostat and heat probe = can have for nothing ( although the "nothing" will probably translate to = or so flies ) if I cart the thing to the tip for him. So the question is this - how much = think I need in the heating element department to get adequate thermal = in this 5 cubic foot oven. I was planning to use second hand elements = appropriate. Keep healthy Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BFFD8C.06B46E40-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 3 06:21:48 2000 e73BLmG09918 ;Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:21:41 +0000 Subject: Re: Miller Stephenson One must tell them a business name. Even if one is dim enough, as I was,not to catch on right away they will ask for a business name again. Iwas told that they had to have a business name no that I had to have abusiness, so I gave them a business name and got my supplies. As a matter of fact I got samples about two months later that amountedto as much as the original purchase. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Frank Olivieri wrote: Jojo, from what I've gathered, one must have a business to purchase chemicals from that company. I did not call them myself, however, to confirm this. Ifconfirm this or the contrary, please do. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Anachemrpo@aol.com Thu Aug 3 07:44:10 2000 e73Ci9G11470 Subject: Identifying a penta Gentlemen: I have an 8 ft. 2/2 penta rod with a downlocking reel seat, aluminum spacer& winding check, reverse half-wells grip and orange wraps with black tipping. One tip has a wider bit of tipping at the male ferrule to differentiate the two tips. The ferrules have a slightly heavier thread that the guides. The signature warp is two bands of black thread about one inch on either side of an orange band with black tipping on each end. There is no writing anywhere on the rod. The rod may have been refinished but is in fine finish, honey colored cane,and all wraps are very nicely done. Ring any bells with anyone? Thanks in advance from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Aug 3 07:57:12 2000 e73CvBG11924 Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:58:43 -0500 Subject: Re: PERFECT reels While I won't scrimp on rod or line, I use Pfleuger's small 1492, or similarreels. I've never fished for salmon, etc., where you'd need a super drag,and many yards of backing, and just feel the reel is a storage place for theline. I've jumped tarpon, and caught salt water species since 1954, with thelargest Pfleuger, and never was in trouble. Now if I were wealthy, well Ilove high quality tools........ GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: PERFECT reels Listers, what reels does everyone match with their rods? I'mbparticularlyinterested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 - 8 1/2footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signature machineddisc(made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inches below thewinding check. from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Aug 3 08:33:28 2000 e73DXRG13441 JAA05531; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories Subject: splitting for Nodeless --------------AE4B1C1BB32DBB07858486F0 I will not protray myself as any kind of expert on these matters, however, Irecently prepared a culm for making a nodeless rod and I thought I wouldchimein. I first used a table saw to cut out the nodes, then heat treated theentiresection of the culms in the Boss lady's kitchen oven (I went nodeless becauseIdidn't at the time have a long, purpose-built bamboo oven), then split.I gotta tell you, after splitting whole culms, splitting the ~12",heat- treated sections are a dream (piece of cake). THere is no wandering,thesplits were/are perfectly (perfectly) straight and I could very easily sizethem to the tip, mid or butt sections.I spilt with a machette (I did have to hide the machette from my wife afterI used her over - cooked bamboo does NOT smell good) and a wood mallet onthebench top.dws. --------------AE4B1C1BB32DBB07858486F0 I will not protray myself as any kind of expert on these matters, however,I recently prepared a culm for making a nodeless rod and I thought I would treated the entire section of the culms in the Boss lady's kitchen oven(I went nodeless because I didn't at the time have a long, purpose-builtbamboo oven), then split. splitting is no wandering, the splits were/are perfectly straight and I could very easily size them to the tip, mid or butt sections. themachette from my wife after I used her over - cooked bamboo does NOTsmellgood) and a wood mallet on the bench top. --------------AE4B1C1BB32DBB07858486F0-- from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Thu Aug 3 08:35:37 2000 e73DZaG13650 Subject: Re: Insight And those making them have spend years to developethe 'Zen' that you see displayed in their work - you can see it - youcan talk about it - but it is learned one rod at a time over years -that is the one thing that unfortunately can't be shared as some wouldlike - Best of LuckSnipped from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Aug 3 10:37:04 2000 e73Fb3G18176 (204.186.33.132) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Identifying a penta Uslan? Marty Gentlemen: I have an 8 ft. 2/2 penta rod with a downlocking reel seat, aluminum spacer&winding check, reverse half-wells grip and orange wraps with black tipping.One tip has a wider bit of tipping at the male ferrule to differentiate thetwo tips. The ferrules have a slightly heavier thread that the guides. Thesignature warp is two bands of black thread about one inch on either sideofan orange band with black tipping on each end. There is no writing anywhereon the rod. The rod may have been refinished but is in fine finish, honey coloredcane,and all wraps are very nicely done. Ring any bells with anyone? Thanks in advance from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Aug 3 13:53:33 2000 e73IrWG24801 0400 Subject: RE: PERFECT reels ...and were available new, on eBay, for way less than retailprice...Bill himself was auctioning them and typically there would beonly one or two bids...or none...starting prices were around $240 forreels that were 360 to 390 bought at a store...I am not sure if he'sstill doing this though...and yes they are very nice... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: PERFECT reels I'm still partial to Bill Ballan's reels. I now own four of them (various sizes) and use them almostexclusively. ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: PERFECT reels You can't beat the sound of a Hardy Featherweight, with a FeatherRiverRainbow biting your dry fly and rocketing downstream................(7 1/2 ft., 5wt., 2 piece, Simroe/Leonard blank)Regards,Ed interested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 -8 1/2 footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signaturemachineddisc (made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inchesbelow the winding check.>> from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Aug 3 14:05:37 2000 e73J5aG25350 Subject: Re: PERFECT reels On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Don DeLoach wrote: Listers, what reels does everyone match with their rods? I'mb particularlyinterested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 - 8 1/2footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? The quality is there. Other nice ones are the Robichauds (if you can getone) and the Adams (pic here: http://flysupplies.homepage.com/adams.jpg) And the Noels are priced right (pic here: http://www.geocities.com:80/Yosemite/Rapids/8393/Noel.jpg But like other posts have mentioned, you can't beat the old Hardys. Giveme a Uniqua, Lightweight or St. George any day. Or the new ones for thatmatter. The new Bougle MKIV models are priced right for what you get. Araised pillar barstock reel with Hardy Perfect internals (ie. ballbearings) and the famous adjustable dual pawl drag. Regards, BobFly Supplieswww.flysupplies.homepage.com/ So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signature machineddisc(made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inches below thewinding check. from tklein@amgen.com Thu Aug 3 14:10:36 2000 e73JAZG25608 Subject: RE: PERFECT reels He still offers them for auction on e-bay quite regularly, and he gets veryfew bids on them. They're usually only attractive to bamboo owners becauseof the styling. He lists them for the minimum he'll accept and most receiveno bids. If you want one, you can usually offer his minimum and win it noproblem. I got two of mine from e-bay. The other two I picked up a year or two ago oncloseout from a shop that changed hands from a bamboo guy to plastic guys.No one had expressed any interest in them until I offered to take both ofthem off their hands. Got 'em for half price each! I'm still trying to arrange delivery on the last one I bought from Bill (oneof his Signature series) but he's out of town until the 10th. After hereturns, I'm sure he'll offer more. I usually just search on his sellername: billballan. If you take a look at his old auctions, you can see howfew bids are made and get a good idea of what a deal you can get. If you want to take a look at them you can see them at: http://www.flyfishingstore.com/classic-reels.html As usual, no connection...yadda, yadda...---Tim ---------- Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 12:47 PM Subject: RE: PERFECT reels ...and were available new, on eBay, for way less than retailprice...Bill himself was auctioning them and typically there would beonly one or two bids...or none...starting prices were around $240 forreels that were 360 to 390 bought at a store...I am not sure if he'sstill doing this though...and yes they are very nice... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 2:22 AM Subject: Re: PERFECT reels I'm still partial to Bill Ballan's reels. I now own four of them (various sizes) and use them almostexclusively. ---Tim ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 12:00 AMSubject: PERFECT reels You can't beat the sound of a Hardy Featherweight, with a FeatherRiverRainbow biting your dry fly and rocketing downstream................(7 1/2 ft., 5wt., 2 piece, Simroe/Leonard blank)Regards,Ed particularly interested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 -8 1/2 footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signaturemachineddisc (made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inchesbelow the winding check.>> from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Aug 3 18:50:01 2000 e73No0G05909 QAA23290 Subject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC and manyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did not carrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there a substitute forthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Aug 3 18:56:14 2000 e73NuEG06151 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sv:_A_fast_#5_-_8=B4?= e73NuEG06153 Dear Listers, Answers to my cry for help have been multiple.Highest score have gone to Dickerson 8013, andas an outsider the Mystery Rod - see the Rodmakerspage. Answers are still coming in, so no verdict has beenpronounced yet. Thanks to all of You for helping me out on this one. But I still cant understand, why the fella doesn't wanta "The Force" or a Para 15:-)) I mean, parabolics rule,don't they? regards, carsten from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Aug 3 20:04:56 2000 e7414tG07698 Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:06:25 -0500 Subject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwed right in.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC and manyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did not carrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there a substituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Aug 3 20:16:55 2000 e741GtG08167 Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:16:48 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: 60 degree points Frank,check out the over size ones that Russ has at Golden Witch. I lovemine and I have not seen any better!Shawn Frank Olivieri wrote: Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC and manyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did not carrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there a substitute forthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from tfbinn@mindspring.com Thu Aug 3 20:39:14 2000 e741dDG08857 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Frank,Go to MSC's web site and do a search using part #86429800. I recentlybought a half dozen 60* Starrett points from them @$3.45 each.Winston Binney from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Aug 3 21:09:52 2000 e7429oG10095 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:09:34 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: A fast #5 - 8? Hi Carsten,the first bamboo rod I ever saw was one of Tony Young'sparabolics. It was love at first cast. I think your friend needs to be"de-plasticised". Maybe Harry could perform some sort of exorcism tobanishhis non-parabolic tendencies. from the Dark Side Mike But I still cant understand, why the fella doesn?t wanta "The Force" or a Para 15:-)) I mean, parabolics rule,don?t they? regards, carsten from Bamboomaker@aol.com Thu Aug 3 21:41:55 2000 e742fsG11079 Subject: Tools of the trade - teflon tape Friends, I'm here wrapping a rod thinking to myself that rodmakers are quite resourceful individuals. On the list, I've heard about those everyday items that we tend to use to make our rodcraft more efficient. Some use popsicle sticks, paper binding clips, bic pen caps and the like. I have a tendency to use a lot of Teflon tape (the kind for plumbing use on threads). I use it to wrap my cork before dipping, for prevention of overflow from brushed varnish on tipping, to even for holding strips before being bound. It works much like masking tape but without the stickiness. It is fairly heat resistant and it is quite inexpensive. So what else are people using out there? Just curious. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, MD,Rochester, MN from bob@downandacross.com Thu Aug 3 21:54:58 2000 e742swG11392 Subject: Re: Tools of the trade - teflon tape --=====================_52670992==_.ALT I use Saran Wrap (or thr generic equivalent) to cover the grip. NS dust is especially nasty. I have spoiled a few grips that way in addition to over dipping a section. The NS never seems to come out.Bob At 10:41 PM 8/3/00 -0400, Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote:Friends, I'm here wrapping a rod thinking to myself that rodmakers are quiteresourceful individuals. On the list, I've heard about those everyday itemsthat we tend to use to make our rodcraft more efficient. Some usepopsiclesticks, paper binding clips, bic pen caps and the like. I have a tendency to use a lot of Teflon tape (the kind for plumbing use onthreads). I use it to wrap my cork before dipping, for prevention ofoverflow from brushed varnish on tipping, to even for holding strips beforebeing bound. It works much like masking tape but without the stickiness. Itis fairly heat resistant and it is quite inexpensive. So what else are people using out there? Just curious. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, MD,Rochester, MN Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_52670992==_.ALT I use Saran Wrap (or thr generic equivalent) to cover the grip. NS dust addition to over dipping a section. The NS never seems to come out.Bob At 10:41 PM 8/3/00 -0400, Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote:Friends, I'm here wrapping a rod thinking to myself that rodmakers are quite everyday items popsicle sticks, paper binding clips, bic pen caps and the like. I have a tendency to use a lot of Teflon tape (the kind for plumbing useon of overflow from brushed varnish on tipping, to even for holding stripsbefore is fairly heat resistant and it is quite inexpensive. Just curious. Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, MD,Rochester, MN Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_52670992==_.ALT-- from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Aug 3 22:07:11 2000 e7437AG11748 UAA13343 Subject: Got Points-thanks Just a thanks to all for guiding me in the direction of some 60 degreepoints. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Aug 3 22:43:45 2000 e743hiG12775 Thu, 03 Aug 2000 20:44:33 PDT Subject: Re: A fast #5 - 8' From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: A fast #5 - 8'Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:56:54 +0200 Dear Fellow Listers A client of mine wants me to build him an 8 foot #5,somewhat fast, for nymphing (?!?) The guy is a recent convert to cane, so his oldSage habits are still very much present. (hedid try a "The Force", but found it too slow!!!!) Any ideas welcomed, since being a paraholic myself I'venever made anything like the rod he wants. So pleeeaase help a fellow rodmaker in distress! regards,carsten Payne 103, Leonard 50DF(some versions)A.J.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Aug 3 22:48:07 2000 e743m6G12923 Thu, 03 Aug 2000 20:48:04 PDT Subject: Re: PERFECT reels From: "Don DeLoach" Subject: PERFECT reelsDate: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:16:29 -0600 Listers, what reels does everyone match with their rods? I'mb particularlyinterested in learning what reels people are hanging on the 7 1/2 - 8 1/2footers. Peerless looks great, but for 400 bucks??? So lets hear it, the perfect reel for that perfect rod, I'll start: 6'6" DT3 (Wayne's), NS SB DL reel seat>> LLBean 3-4 Signature machineddisc(made by STH,about ten years old) balances perfectly two inches below thewinding check. A Perfect of course! or a MedalistA.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from homessold@email.msn.com Fri Aug 4 00:14:02 2000 e745E1G15689 Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:13:23 -0700 Subject: Strip Width Someone ask: " What is the width of a strip?" Happen to be reading thelatest addition of Garrison's book on page 236 and there is a diagram of across section of a hexrod. The width of the strip is shown as .578d. Haven'tproved the math but I would bet it's true. Hope this helps. Don Schneider from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Aug 4 05:28:06 2000 e74AS3G24161 Fri, 4 Aug 2000 18:27:42 +0800 Subject: RE: Parabolic rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu None, of you guys are suggesting I spear fish with my Driggs are you? At 10:43 AM 8/3/00 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:The Australian Aborigines use a thing called a "woomera" which is the sameas an atl atl. An anthropologist friend of mine has several of these alongwith a collection of short hardwood-tipped, bamboo spears which aredownright lethal. The Aboriginal word for them roughly translates to "nightspears" because they travel so fast that they are invisible. Tests haveshown that a woomera is capable of propelling one of these spears to avelocity roughly equivalent to that of a revolver bullet! Hows that? Mike /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Aug 4 07:13:40 2000 e74CDdG26027 Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:12:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Got Points-thanks There seemed a problem in finding cold rolled steel, and I found a supplierin N.Y., who I have purchased measuring tools from, who also supply allmanner of metal goods. Nolan Supply in Syracuse, N.Y., 1-800-736-2204, also has branches inRochester, N.Y., 1-800-721-4685, and Mebane, N.C. 1-800-300-6390. They sell cold rolled in 12' lengths up to 4" x 4", and will cut to lengths.I've no idea about how their prices compare. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Got Points-thanks Just a thanks to all for guiding me in the direction of some 60 degreepoints. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 4 07:17:33 2000 e74CHWG26174 Subject: RE: Parabolic rods, now spearfishing --=====================_5308133==_.ALT atl-atl be the day! At 06:39 PM 8/4/00 +0800, Tony Young wrote:None, of you guys are suggesting I spear fish with my Driggs are you? Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_5308133==_.ALT atl-atl be the day! At 06:39 PM 8/4/00 +0800, Tony Young wrote:None, of you guys are suggesting I spear fishwith my Driggs are you? Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_5308133==_.ALT-- from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Aug 4 08:10:28 2000 e74DASG27573 Subject: Re: Strip Width Organization: GOULD Nope, the width of the strip is 2 x .577d = 1.155d.Ray----- Original Message - ---- Subject: Strip Width Someone ask: " What is the width of a strip?" Happen to be reading thelatest addition of Garrison's book on page 236 and there is a diagram of across section of a hexrod. The width of the strip is shown as .578d.Haven'tproved the math but I would bet it's true. Hope this helps. Don Schneider from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Aug 4 08:20:45 2000 e74DKiG28178 Subject: Re: Strip Width Organization: GOULD Oops, The strip width is 1.155 d/2 (the depth of a single strip) or 0.577"d"(the rod thickness)as you said.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Strip Width Nope, the width of the strip is 2 x .577d = 1.155d.Ray----- Original Message - ----From: homessold Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:14 PMSubject: Strip Width Someone ask: " What is the width of a strip?" Happen to be reading thelatest addition of Garrison's book on page 236 and there is a diagram ofacross section of a hexrod. The width of the strip is shown as .578d.Haven'tproved the math but I would bet it's true. Hope this helps. Don Schneider from dnorl@uswest.net Fri Aug 4 08:45:49 2000 e74DjmG29096 (63.228.7.117) Subject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point made specially for rodmakers. It'swider so it fits the planing form well and is accurate.Dave-----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwed right in.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC and manyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did not carrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there a substituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Aug 4 08:51:53 2000 e74DpqG29417 Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:50:29 -0500 Subject: Re: 60 degree points What's important is that it have a good point. You are measuring the depthof the groove, not the 60 deg. angle. A hardened point is very desirable. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point made specially for rodmakers. It'swider so it fits the planing form well and is accurate.Dave-----Original Message----- From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:08 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwed right in.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC andmanyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did not carrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there a substituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from richjez@enteract.com Fri Aug 4 09:29:12 2000 e74ETBG01428 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book --=====================_4772071==_.ALT If you are looking to buy books online, it is worth checking out http://www.addall.com/ Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_4772071==_.ALT If you are looking to buy books online, it is worth checkingout http://www.addall.com/ Rich Jezioro *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_4772071==_.ALT-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Aug 4 09:46:25 2000 e74EkMG02248 Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:45:59 +0800 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach's Book Rich,that's a good site. Thanks. Tony At 09:29 AM 8/4/00 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: If you are looking to buy books online, it isworth checking out http://www.addall.com/ Rich Jezioro *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ sp; / bsp; /**********************************************************************=****/ AV Young Visit my web site at: the hub of a the use of the bsp; depend on the bsp; the hub that is void. advantage is had whatever is there; usefulness arises whatever is not. Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from djk762@hotmail.com Fri Aug 4 13:47:24 2000 e74IlNG10972 Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:47:17 -0700 Fri, 04 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples FILETIME=[69ACD970:01BFFE44] Rodmakers- Has anyone used both Pearsall's Gossamer and Naples for wraps? Do the varnished wraps look much different from each other?I am having trouble getting the Gossamer wrapped without gaps. Theyappear tight before varnishing but not after. - David Kashuba.Fair Oaks CA ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Aug 4 14:02:02 2000 e74J22G11426 , Subject: Re: 60 degree points I have Golden Witch point and I use it and a dial indicator to check thedepths that I set first with a depth Micrometer and rolls, ie, it needs areference point to calibrate it. My point is .005" short of a "true" pointand readings would be off by this amount if I didn't calibrate it firstagainst a known setting.----------From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: 60 degree pointsDate: Friday, August 04, 2000 9:56 AM What's important is that it have a good point. You are measuring thedepthof the groove, not the 60 deg. angle. A hardened point is very desirable. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Norling" Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:55 AMSubject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point made specially for rodmakers. It'swider so it fits the planing form well and is accurate.Dave-----Original Message----- From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:08 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwed rightin.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC andmanyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did notcarrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there asubstituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Aug 4 14:05:14 2000 e74J5DG11632 Subject: Re: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples Try using your fingernail to "stack" the end wraps tight. I find the wrapswill often compress an extra 2 or 3 turns. Then burnish the whole wrap tosmooth it out. ----------From: David Kashuba Subject: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. NaplesDate: Friday, August 04, 2000 2:47 PM Rodmakers- Has anyone used both Pearsall's Gossamer and Naples for wraps? Do the varnished wraps look much different from each other?> I am havingtrouble getting the Gossamer wrapped without gaps. Theyappear tight before varnishing but not after. - David Kashuba.Fair Oaks CA ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Aug 4 15:12:03 2000 e74KC3G13846 0400 Subject: RE: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFE51.77ED4BD3 I've tried both...Naples is definitely easier to wrap and looks fairlytranslucent, but I do think Gossamer, when done right looksbetter...it really looks like glass. I am very happy with the Naplesthough. What I found to be the most important factor is having verygood light when wrapping. Sunlight seems best but a very strong indoorlight (halogen even) works. Of course good eyesight or a magnifyingglass helps too. Pack frequently with adequate but not excessiveforce. Andy -----Original Message----- Subject: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples Rodmakers- Has anyone used both Pearsall's Gossamer and Naples for wraps? Dothe varnished wraps look much different from each other?I am having trouble getting the Gossamer wrapped without gaps. Theyappear tight before varnishing but not after. - David Kashuba.Fair Oaks CA ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFE51.77ED4BD3 RE: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples I've tried both...Naples is definitely easier to wrap =and looks fairly translucent, but I do think Gossamer, when done right =looks better...it really looks like glass. I am very happy with the =Naples though. What I found to be the most important factor is having =very good light when wrapping. Sunlight seems best but a very strong =indoor light (halogen even) works. Of course good eyesight or a =magnifying glass helps too. Pack frequently with adequate but not =excessive force. Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@=wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of David KashubaSent: Friday, August 04, 2000 2:44 PM Subject: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples Rodmakers- =Naples for wraps? Do the varnished wraps look much different from each =other? wrapped without gaps. They appear tight before varnishing but not after. _______________________________________________________________=_________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFE51.77ED4BD3-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Aug 4 16:13:28 2000 e74LDRG15712 Fri, 4 Aug 2000 23:13:25 +0200 Subject: Sv: 60 degree points e74LDSG15713 I happen to disagree in this. The actual point does not touch anythingwhen measuring in the planingform - I mean, my planingform is "bottomless". A correct 60 degrees angle is not important either. What is important isto calibrate the micrometer very thoroughly. The sides of the pointtouches the sides of the grooves - You might as well use a "square" point,as long as You calibrate accurately. What you measure is the distanceof the sides of the grove "somewhere" in the form. Using the same point,no matter what the angle, everytime, gives You consistent measurements. I think it is Chris Bogart who on his website have an accurate way ofadjusting the planingform. I advice to use this method - it is easyand brilliant and accurate. regards, Carsten What's important is that it have a good point. You are measuring the depthof the groove, not the 60 deg. angle. A hardened point is very desirable. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Norling" Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:55 AMSubject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point made specially for rodmakers. It'swider so it fits the planing form well and is accurate.Dave-----Original Message----- From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:08 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwed rightin.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC andmanyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did not carrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there a substituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Aug 4 16:47:39 2000 e74LlcG16856 Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:49:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples I'm filling wraps done with Naples 00 now, and it takes a great deal morecare in wrapping, than I want ! I'm going back to A for wraps, as with avarnish fill, they look much nicer, for 1/10th the pain ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples Rodmakers- Has anyone used both Pearsall's Gossamer and Naples for wraps? Do thevarnished wraps look much different from each other?I am having trouble getting the Gossamer wrapped without gaps. Theyappeartight before varnishing but not after. - David Kashuba.Fair Oaks CA ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 4 17:19:58 2000 e74MJvG17603 Subject: Thebault Silk Lines (Possible group buy?) There was some talk about the Thebault Silk Lines last week, and I wanted to share some specs with you on the various models for any interested parties. All lines are pretty reasonable, and the parallel line (not a level taper, but a very small taper at one end and supposedly very nice) is around $75 I imagine. The 36 Meters are a Salmon taper.DT - 15METRES - #2-6 - AMBER OR GREENDT - 27METRES - #2-8 - AMBER OR GREENDT - 36METRES - #8-12 - AMBER ONLYWF - 20METRES - #0-3 - AMBER ONLYWF - 30METRES - #3-8 - AMBER OR GREENWF - 36METRES - #7-12 - AMBER OR RED (?)PARALLEL - 20METRES - AMBER OR RED (?) I have a DT 3, 4, 5 a WF4, and a Parallel 4 on the way. I will let you know how they are if you are interested, drop me a line off list. I know some people missed out on the Phoenix group buy, and I would do one for these if you wanted too. My contact in the UK says he has been able to get these lines from stock.ThanksBob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Aug 4 17:43:48 2000 e74MhmG18087 (204.186.33.99) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples I use Naples for guides and Gossamar for tipping. To be honest I seenothing wrong with 00 or A for that matter. I have done many rods over the years with A and I can't see that much difference in the finishedproduct. Marty I'm filling wraps done with Naples 00 now, and it takes a great deal morecare in wrapping, than I want ! I'm going back to A for wraps, as with avarnish fill, they look much nicer, for 1/10th the pain ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Kashuba" Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 1:47 PMSubject: Pearsall's Gossamer vs. Naples Rodmakers- Has anyone used both Pearsall's Gossamer and Naples for wraps? Dothevarnished wraps look much different from each other?I am having trouble getting the Gossamer wrapped without gaps. Theyappeartight before varnishing but not after. - David Kashuba.Fair Oaks CA ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 4 20:45:20 2000 e751jJG20101 Subject: Thebault Silk Line Order --=====================_15178786==_.ALT I guess we are doing it. Please let me know who wants in by Tuesday at the latest. I will let you know prices when we get a total.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_15178786==_.ALT I guess we are doing it. Please let me know who wants in byTuesday at the latest. I will let you know prices when we get atotal.Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_15178786==_.ALT-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 02:55:39 2000 e757taG24251 Subject: GMA 60 degree points Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFFF05.4C3ABB20 Hello George It seems to me that most of the time it wouldn't even matter if the =bloody thing didn't HAVE a point on it at all, as the tip of the 60 =degree conical thingy is hanging in space when the depth of the groove =in the forms is being measured; so it is most important to have a good, =true 60 degree angle on the business end, surely. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFFF05.4C3ABB20 Hello George It seems to me that most of the time it= even matter if the bloody thing didn't HAVE a point on it at all, as the = the 60 degree conical thingy is hanging in space when the depth of the = the forms is being measured; so it is most important to have a good, = degree angle on the business end, surely. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BFFF05.4C3ABB20-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 03:00:27 2000 e7580PG24387 Subject: Carsten Jorgensen Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BFFF05.F425CAA0 Thanks, Carsten. I just got to read your note, and it agrees exactly =with what I was saying about points. Don't you just love that? Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BFFF05.F425CAA0 Thanks, Carsten. I just got to read= and it agrees exactly with what I was saying about =points. Don't you just love =that? Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BFFF05.F425CAA0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 04:53:19 2000 e759rGG25625 Subject: tony - Morgan mill Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFFF15.BC5BEB80 Tony I'm sure the Morgan mill is nice; But, just to give my life some spiceI'll make my rods by HAND. And if the prints I leave behindShould need to be more keen -Then, and only then, you'll findI'll resort ... to a machine! Between the rods that are truly MINEAnd the duplicates by Sage! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFFF15.BC5BEB80 Tony nice; spiceI'll make my rods by =HAND. behindShould need to be more keen =- findI'll resort ... to a =machine! There's a very fine and hazy That only God can gauge - = Between the rods that are MINEAnd the duplicates by =Sage! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFFF15.BC5BEB80-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 06:40:48 2000 e75BekG26631 Subject: Tony young Morgan mill Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFFF24.C1852FE0 Human nature's very strangeAnd not a little funny -My view of Morgan's mill might changeIf I had a bit more money! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFFF24.C1852FE0 nature's very strangeAnd not a little funny =- changeIf I had a bit more =money! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFFF24.C1852FE0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Aug 5 06:56:42 2000 e75BudG27087 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:56:34 +0800 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:56:32 +0800 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Oh yeah? Were it not for me being so fat-witted with drinking of old sack andunbuttoned after supper I'd reply with more wit, as it is however:Stick and stones pete, sticks and stones. That bit about the Sage rod was Once again The People's Poet from the far Sth of the Antipodes has made agood and witty point. The Morgan Hand Mill is a very nice piece of workand it does turn out splines that are about as close as is imaginable toeach other but it still takes skill to set up and use to get good resultsthen there are still the other stages to making good rods apart from themilling. Peter also raises the question of what is in the mind of the maker. Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories.The maker who may or may not be a pro/semi pro simply wanting output ofaccurately made blanks, a person who eschews much of what many mayconsider nothing more than a time consuming waste of time hand planingand lastly those who just like to use a machine when one is available anddoes a very good job of what it's designed for. I don't think using or not using a mill defines craftsmanship one way orthe other because you still need to get into the heat treating, major part of the process but is not particually difficult to dowell. People who hand plane prob also fit into three categories.Those who wouldn't use a mill no matter what for personal reasons of"rightness" for a better term, those who'd love to get a millbut can't locate the funds and those waiting for the delivery of one.:-) Having said all this and notwithstanding you're last post which is afeeble attempt of trying to extricate yourself from a dodgy situation ifI were you Pete, I'd take cover :-) Tony At 07:45 PM 8/5/00 +1000, petermckean wrote: Tony I'm sure the Morgan mill isnice;In fact, I'm sure it's grand. But, just to give my life some spiceI'll make my rods by HAND. And if the prints I leavebehindShould need to be more keen -Then, and only then, you'll findI'll resort ... to a machine! There's a very fine and hazy line, That only God can gauge - Between the rods that are truly MINEAnd the duplicates by Sage! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man'slucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: the hub of a the use of the depend on the the hub that is void. advantage is had whatever is there; usefulness arises whatever is not. Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Aug 5 07:26:49 2000 e75CQkG27622 Subject: Tony: re Morgan mill Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFF2B.2DB24E40 Hear! Hear! Tony. Well said. Thus do the righteous ever thwart the =slings and insults of the ungodly! HOWEVER, just in case I have not made amends enow, I shall take your =good advice and dig in behind a big, thick berm, and ride it out. (Probably find I'm sharing it with Ian Kearney and the All Blacks. Oh, =well, could be worse.) Good health Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFF2B.2DB24E40 Hear! Hear! Tony. Well said. Thus = righteous ever thwart the slings and insults of the =ungodly! HOWEVER, just in case I have not = (Probably find I'm sharing it with = worse.) Good health Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFF2B.2DB24E40-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Aug 5 07:49:26 2000 e75CnJG27945 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:50:28 +0800 Subject: Re: Tony: re Morgan mill At 10:19 PM 8/5/00 +1000, petermckean wrote: Hear! Hear! Tony.Well said. Thus do the righteous ever thwart the slings and insults ofthe ungodly! HOWEVER, just in case I have not madeamends enow, I shall take your good advice and dig in behind a big, thickberm, and ride it out. (Probably find I'm sharing it with worse.) It's a shame most on the list are unaware of the reason foryou're taking cover with the All Blacks and my reason for being sofat-witted with drinking of old sack (actually a very nice Taylors CabSav) and unbuttoned after a supper of chicken with macadamia &honey.Life doesn't get any better than eating good food, drinking good wine andwatching a great Rugby match, well, maybe it does but not just at themoment.I say give John Eales the presidency of what ever he wants unoposed.Anybody with his match winning right boot has my vote! Tony /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: the hub of a the use of the depend on the the hub that is void. advantage is had whatever is there; usefulness arises whatever is not. Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 5 07:58:29 2000 e75CwQG28169 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 07:56:56 -0500 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: GMA 60 degree points I apparently don't understand the planing form at all, as if there is not anapex, or "bottom" to the "V" of the groove, I don't see how the dialindicator can help at all ! With a bottom, then measuring to a known drillblank/dowel pin diameter, and using the math, would be the most accuratewayto measure. Now if there is a gap in the bottom of the "V" groove, and youknow the exact amount of the gap, a measurement to the sides, and mathshould give it too. What am I missing ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: GMA 60 degree points Hello George It seems to me that most of the time it wouldn't even matter if the bloodything didn't HAVE a point on it at all, as the tip of the 60 degree conicalthingy is hanging in space when the depth of the groove in the forms isbeing measured; so it is most important to have a good, true 60 degree angleon the business end, surely. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 5 08:06:04 2000 e75D63G28390 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:04:21 -0500 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill You omitted one other reason Tony. That of the person who still has to work14 + hours a day, running his business. The Morgan allows decent out put, Good point about the other jobs entailed in turning out a quality product.Here patience and talent, will still always surface ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Oh yeah?Were it not for me being so fat-witted with drinking of old sack andunbuttoned after supper I'd reply with more wit, as it is however:Stick and stones pete, sticks and stones. That bit about the Sage rod wasa bit below the belt don't you think? :-) Once again The People's Poet from the far Sth of the Antipodes has madeagood and witty point. The Morgan Hand Mill is a very nice piece of work andit does turn out splines that are about as close as is imaginable to eachother but it still takes skill to set up and use to get good results thenthere are still the other stages to making good rods apart from the milling. Peter also raises the question of what is in the mind of the maker. Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories.The maker who may or may not be a pro/semi pro simply wanting output ofaccurately made blanks, a person who eschews much of what many mayconsidernothing more than a time consuming waste of time hand planing and lastlythose who just like to use a machine when one is available and does a verygood job of what it's designed for. I don't think using or not using a mill defines craftsmanship one way orthe other because you still need to get into the heat treating,straightening, ferrule fitting and finishing and the planing is a majorpart of the process but is not particually difficult to do well. People who hand plane prob also fit into three categories.Those who wouldn't use a mill no matter what for personal reasons of"rightness" for a better term, those who'd love to get a mill but can'tlocate the funds and those waiting for the delivery of one. :-) Having said all this and notwithstanding you're last post which is afeeble attempt of trying to extricate yourself from a dodgy situation if Iwere you Pete, I'd take cover :-) Tony At 07:45 PM 8/5/00 +1000, petermckean wrote: Tony I'm sure the Morgan mill is nice;In fact, I'm sure it's grand.But, just to give my life some spiceI'll make my rods by HAND. And if the prints I leave behindShould need to be more keen -Then, and only then, you'll findI'll resort ... to a machine! There's a very fine and hazy line,That only God can gauge -Between the rods that are truly MINEAnd the duplicates by Sage! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Aug 5 08:12:14 2000 e75DCBG29095 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:11:44 +0800 Subject: Re: GMA 60 degree points "'RODMAKERS'" I think what The People's Poet is getting at is the very tip of the probeis not really in contact with the forms so it could be blunt and not make adifference to the sides of the groove the probe is in contact with but Ithink Pete's missing the point as it were because you need the point to besharp so you can measure the actual depth based on the OAL of the probeincluding the point. If the probe were not pointy you wouldn't be able tozero it and thus take accurate measurements of the groove's depth. Tony At 08:02 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I apparently don't understand the planing form at all, as if there is not anapex, or "bottom" to the "V" of the groove, I don't see how the dialindicator can help at all ! With a bottom, then measuring to a known drillblank/dowel pin diameter, and using the math, would be the most accuratewayto measure. Now if there is a gap in the bottom of the "V" groove, and youknow the exact amount of the gap, a measurement to the sides, and mathshould give it too. What am I missing ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "petermckean" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 2:48 AMSubject: GMA 60 degree points Hello George It seems to me that most of the time it wouldn't even matter if the bloodything didn't HAVE a point on it at all, as the tip of the 60 degree conicalthingy is hanging in space when the depth of the groove in the forms isbeing measured; so it is most important to have a good, true 60 degreeangleon the business end, surely. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Aug 5 08:18:02 2000 e75DI2G29905 06:18:00 PDT Subject: Re: GMA 60 degree points the little pointy thing can get rubbed off a fewthousands very easy. so i calibrate mine against aknown standard that also has a hole in the bottom ofit. you can make one or buy one. timothy --- Tony Young wrote:I think what The People's Poet is getting at is thevery tip of the probeis not really in contact with the forms so it couldbe blunt and not make adifference to the sides of the groove the probe isin contact with but Ithink Pete's missing the point as it were becauseyou need the point to besharp so you can measure the actual depth based onthe OAL of the probeincluding the point. If the probe were not pointyyou wouldn't be able tozero it and thus take accurate measurements of thegroove's depth. Tony At 08:02 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I apparently don't understand the planing form atall, as if there is not anapex, or "bottom" to the "V" of the groove, I don'tsee how the dialindicator can help at all ! With a bottom, thenmeasuring to a known drillblank/dowel pin diameter, and using the math, wouldbe the most accurate wayto measure. Now if there is a gap in the bottom ofthe "V" groove, and youknow the exact amount of the gap, a measurement tothe sides, and mathshould give it too. What am I missing ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "petermckean" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 2:48 AMSubject: GMA 60 degree points Hello George It seems to me that most of the time it wouldn'teven matter if the bloodything didn't HAVE a point on it at all, as the tipof the 60 degree conicalthingy is hanging in space when the depth of thegroove in the forms isbeing measured; so it is most important to have agood, true 60 degree angleon the business end, surely. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he getsout of it alive."W C Fields /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Aug 5 08:27:38 2000 e75DRcG00375 "petermckean" Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill --=====================_4428300==_.ALT That is a major reason I like it so much. Plus, you can't really do pentas and quads as easily without it and think of the cost of all those forms. Lastly, look at Tom's site and see that quote by a certain P.B. in California. Gee, I wonder who that could be? He likes the mill too.Bob At 08:10 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote:You omitted one other reason Tony. That of the person who still has towork14 + hours a day, running his business. The Morgan allows decent out put, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_4428300==_.ALT That is a major reason I like it so much. Plus, you can't really dopentas and quads as easily without it and think of the cost of all thoseforms. Lastly, look at Tom's site and see that quote by a certain P.B. inCalifornia. Gee, I wonder who that could be? He likes the mill too.Bob At 08:10 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote:You omitted one other reason Tony. That of theperson who still has to work14 + hours a day, running his business. The Morgan allows decent output, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_4428300==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 5 08:28:12 2000 e75DSCG00450 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:26:42 -0500 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: GMA 60 degree points I really am missing something here ! How can you zero if the point isn'ttouching a solid base ? For instance, my standard shop dial depth indicatoris zeroed against a ground tool steel plate, or marble plate. How can youmeasure against a tapered wall, if you don't know at what point it's beingread from ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: GMA 60 degree points the little pointy thing can get rubbed off a fewthousands very easy. so i calibrate mine against aknown standard that also has a hole in the bottom ofit. you can make one or buy one. timothy --- Tony Young wrote:I think what The People's Poet is getting at is thevery tip of the probeis not really in contact with the forms so it couldbe blunt and not make adifference to the sides of the groove the probe isin contact with but Ithink Pete's missing the point as it were becauseyou need the point to besharp so you can measure the actual depth based onthe OAL of the probeincluding the point. If the probe were not pointyyou wouldn't be able tozero it and thus take accurate measurements of thegroove's depth. Tony At 08:02 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I apparently don't understand the planing form atall, as if there is not anapex, or "bottom" to the "V" of the groove, I don'tsee how the dialindicator can help at all ! With a bottom, thenmeasuring to a known drillblank/dowel pin diameter, and using the math, wouldbe the most accurate wayto measure. Now if there is a gap in the bottom ofthe "V" groove, and youknow the exact amount of the gap, a measurement tothe sides, and mathshould give it too. What am I missing ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "petermckean" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 2:48 AMSubject: GMA 60 degree points Hello George It seems to me that most of the time it wouldn'teven matter if the bloodything didn't HAVE a point on it at all, as the tipof the 60 degree conicalthingy is hanging in space when the depth of thegroove in the forms isbeing measured; so it is most important to have agood, true 60 degree angleon the business end, surely. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he getsout of it alive."W C Fields /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void.> > So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Aug 5 08:29:54 2000 e75DTsG00605 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands that become grumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downright uncooperativeand complaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one is able to get shoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the process and at worst, spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provide in making possible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods, hollow making with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to try different stuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra cost and ease, and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all with the sense of hands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downright intriguing as well as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box and leave off the preaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony, the above is not a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and to bamboo rodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just my enthusiasm Tom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we will probably find yet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft. Thanks again, Tom. Richard Tyree from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Aug 5 08:44:01 2000 e75DhvG01073 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:43:49 +0800 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:43:46 +0800 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill ,"'RODMAKERS'" That's right, I think the planing part of making rods is time consuming butnot a major part of the skill needed by the maker in the rod's ultimateoutcome. I mean, the first few rods are tricky to plane but after that it's prettymuch a detail that only needs being careful and keeping the plane irons sharp.The fact so many really nice rods can be made by careful people who neverlooked at a plane before deciding to make rods bears this out.So if you enjoy planing and I for one do that's great, there is a greatdeal of satisfaction in planing a very perfectly fitting set of splines(something I have to admit to still trying to achieve) that would bemissing when using a mill but anybody who ever trys one of these mills willfind they are a very nice piece of work indeed. It's horses for courses. Tony At 08:10 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote:You omitted one other reason Tony. That of the person who still has towork14 + hours a day, running his business. The Morgan allows decent out put, Good point about the other jobs entailed in turning out a quality product.Here patience and talent, will still always surface ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: "'RODMAKERS'" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 7:08 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Oh yeah?Were it not for me being so fat-witted with drinking of old sack andunbuttoned after supper I'd reply with more wit, as it is however:Stick and stones pete, sticks and stones. That bit about the Sage rodwasa bit below the belt don't you think? :-) Once again The People's Poet from the far Sth of the Antipodes has madeagood and witty point. The Morgan Hand Mill is a very nice piece of work andit does turn out splines that are about as close as is imaginable to eachother but it still takes skill to set up and use to get good results thenthere are still the other stages to making good rods apart from the milling. Peter also raises the question of what is in the mind of the maker. Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories.The maker who may or may not be a pro/semi pro simply wanting outputofaccurately made blanks, a person who eschews much of what many mayconsidernothing more than a time consuming waste of time hand planing and lastlythose who just like to use a machine when one is available and does a verygood job of what it's designed for. I don't think using or not using a mill defines craftsmanship one way orthe other because you still need to get into the heat treating,straightening, ferrule fitting and finishing and the planing is a majorpart of the process but is not particually difficult to do well. People who hand plane prob also fit into three categories.Those who wouldn't use a mill no matter what for personal reasons of"rightness" for a better term, those who'd love to get a mill but can'tlocate the funds and those waiting for the delivery of one. :-) Having said all this and notwithstanding you're last post which is afeeble attempt of trying to extricate yourself from a dodgy situation if Iwere you Pete, I'd take cover :-) Tony At 07:45 PM 8/5/00 +1000, petermckean wrote: Tony I'm sure the Morgan mill is nice;In fact, I'm sure it's grand.But, just to give my life some spiceI'll make my rods by HAND. And if the prints I leave behindShould need to be more keen -Then, and only then, you'll findI'll resort ... to a machine! There's a very fine and hazy line,That only God can gauge -Between the rods that are truly MINEAnd the duplicates by Sage! Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Aug 5 08:46:09 2000 e75Dk8G01183 06:46:06 PDT Subject: upper pennisula hey tony, i'm going to be in the upper penn ofmichigan this week. plan on fishing the dead river. am going to get to stay only two days. i do hope youget to make the trip sometime. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Aug 5 08:51:14 2000 e75DpBG01459 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:52:12 +0800 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Richard,I didn't think it was a flame until you mentioned it :-)You're right though. Tom really has done a very good job with this mill.I guess I've made about 12 Driggs and 5-6 para 15 by now as well as a fewother tapers in multiple numbers and I must admit once you've planed a fewrods of the same taper the fun of planing becomes a little less like funand more a chore though I do get pretty excited about planing a new taper.Strange isn't it? Tony At 09:29 AM 8/5/00 -0400, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: of the mill prob fall into three categories. >> Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands that become grumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downright uncooperativeand complaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one is able to get shoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the process and atworst, spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provide in making possible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods, hollow making with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to try different stuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra cost and ease, and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all with the senseof hands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downright intriguing as well as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box and leave off the preaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony, the aboveis not a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and to bamboo rodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just my enthusiasm Tom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we will probablyfind yet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft. Thanks again, Tom. Richard Tyree /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 5 09:28:33 2000 e75ESWG02134 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 09:26:49 -0500 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill That's why women are used for production work, more than men. Thousandsofyears of repetitive work, has made them more adaptive to boring work !Training a person to do a special job is expensive. If they get bored, andquit, this is even more expensive ! Most assembly jobs are filled by women. Doing a new taper, is breaking the boredom ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Richard,I didn't think it was a flame until you mentioned it :-)You're right though. Tom really has done a very good job with this mill.I guess I've made about 12 Driggs and 5-6 para 15 by now as well as a fewother tapers in multiple numbers and I must admit once you've planed a fewrods of the same taper the fun of planing becomes a little less like funand more a chore though I do get pretty excited about planing a new taper.Strange isn't it? Tony At 09:29 AM 8/5/00 -0400, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: of the mill prob fall into three categories. >> Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands that becomegrumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downright uncooperativeandcomplaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one is able togetshoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the process and atworst,spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provide inmakingpossible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods, hollowmaking with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to try differentstuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra cost andease,and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all with thesenseofhands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downright intriguingaswell as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box and leave offthepreaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony, theaboveisnot a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and to bamboorodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just myenthusiasmforTom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we will probablyfindyet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft. Thanksagain,Tom. Richard Tyree /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Aug 5 10:08:13 2000 e75F8CG02703 (204.186.33.172) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill I would buy one if I didn't have so much time, money and effort into myplaning forms. If I were starting today I would put the 2G's out and getit over with. Marty That is a major reason I like it so much. Plus, you can't really dopentas and quads as easily without it and think of the cost of allthose forms. Lastly, look at Tom's site and see that quote by acertain P.B. in California. Gee, I wonder who that could be? He likesthe mill too.Bob At 08:10 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote: You omitted one other reason Tony. That of the person whostill has to work14 + hours a day, running his business. The Morgan allowsdecent out put, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Aug 5 10:14:13 2000 e75FEDG02884 (204.186.33.172) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Hi Nobler, You have been elected president of the "He Mans WomensHaters Club". Marty That's why women are used for production work, more than men.Thousands ofyears of repetitive work, has made them more adaptive to boring work !Training a person to do a special job is expensive. If they get bored, andquit, this is even more expensive ! Most assembly jobs are filled by women. Doing a new taper, is breaking the boredom ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 9:03 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Richard,I didn't think it was a flame until you mentioned it :-)You're right though. Tom really has done a very good job with this mill.I guess I've made about 12 Driggs and 5-6 para 15 by now as well as afewother tapers in multiple numbers and I must admit once you've planed afewrods of the same taper the fun of planing becomes a little less like funand more a chore though I do get pretty excited about planing a newtaper.Strange isn't it? Tony At 09:29 AM 8/5/00 -0400, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories. >> Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands thatbecomegrumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downrightuncooperativeandcomplaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one is able togetshoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the process and atworst,spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provide inmakingpossible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods, hollowmaking with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to try differentstuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra cost andease,and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all with thesenseofhands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downrightintriguingaswell as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box and leave offthepreaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony, theaboveisnot a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and to bamboorodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just myenthusiasmforTom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we will probablyfindyet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft. Thanksagain,Tom. Richard Tyree /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Aug 5 10:30:59 2000 e75FUxG03243 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Darryl, I've noticed the same thing. My first rod was the Sir D, which I like very much. However, this summer in Colorado I found myself preferring the Driggs River. It just has more punch when needed, while still fishing in close. I guess that I'm evolving in my preferences. Mark Cole from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Aug 5 10:37:05 2000 e75Fb4G03431 IAA09385 (5.5.2650.21) petermckean ,"'bob@downandacross.com'" Subject: RE: tony - Morgan mill scraping hand plane. You still have to set a planing form only instead ofadjusting the width of two steel bars and riding the plane on top of them useadjust the taper by the height of one form and the plane rides on a base thatdoesn't change in height. The plane height is constant and you raise thebamboo strip into it and adjust the cutters down by as little as .001 or up to.010-.020. You are still hand planing only you are planing both sides of thestrip at the same time quite accurately. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 6:24 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill That is a major reason I like it so much. Plus, you can't really do pentas andquads as easily without it and think of the cost of all those forms. Lastly,look at Tom's site and see that quote by a certain P.B. in California. Gee, Iwonder who that could be? He likes the mill too.Bob At 08:10 AM 8/5/00 -0500, nobler wrote: You omitted one other reason Tony. That of the person who still has towork14 + hours a day, running his business. The Morgan allows decent output, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Aug 5 12:05:05 2000 e75H54G04418 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:04:52 -0400 "David Norling" ,"nobler@satx.rr.com" ,"RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu" ,"teekay35@interlynx.net" (5.0.2195) Subject: Re: 60 degree points Ted This is why I wrote that article to help guys find out for themselves.I have had students try and build rods with a bad depth gauge calibration -forthe reason you cite - Now for the question of the day - Why, when Starrett - an ISO 9002certified company makes a 60 degree tip for $3.25 would anybody pay $16forone from a non ISO 9002 source?? Second - did you ever hear anyone say "that piece of crap I got from Starrett"? Think about it! Chris On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:00:11 -0400, Ted Knott wrote: I have Golden Witch point and I use it and a dial indicator to check thedepths that I set first with a depth Micrometer and rolls, ie, it needs areference point to calibrate it. My point is .005" short of a "true" pointand readings would be off by this amount if I didn't calibrate it firstagainst a known setting.----------From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: 60 degree pointsDate: Friday, August 04, 2000 9:56 AM What's important is that it have a good point. You are measuring thedepthof the groove, not the 60 deg. angle. A hardened point is very desirable. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Norling" Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:55 AMSubject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point made specially for rodmakers. It'swider so it fits the planing form well and is accurate.Dave-----Original Message----- From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:08 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwed rightin.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSC andmanyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did notcarrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there asubstituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Aug 5 12:36:41 2000 e75HafG05151 (5.0.2195) Subject: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering To All - The registration is now closed. I will accept the registrations that are in the mail - with what I knowthat are already in the mail - we have now reached our absolute limit. I hateto disappoint anyone but taking anymore will diminish the time for those who areregistered. Also - anyone that needs a place - Mark Bulvanoski who lives inLivingstonManor says he can accomondate 2 people - drop him a line at 25 ChurchRoad,Livingston Manor, NY 12758 or call at: (212) 673-4534 - he does not have a computer for email. He says he has camping mat, roll out futon set up in the second floor of his workshop in Willowemoc - coffee in the AM and a direct drive down Delruce Road to the Center. Chris from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Aug 5 12:39:12 2000 e75HdCG05264 10:51:09 PDT Subject: Re: 60 degree points "rod 'akers" i make a point of checking them even if they are nfromstarrett. i have found some variances. timothy--- Chris Bogart wrote:Ted This is why I wrote that article to help guys findout for themselves.I have had students try and build rods with a baddepth gauge calibration - forthe reason you cite - Now for the question of the day - Why, whenStarrett - an ISO 9002certified company makes a 60 degree tip for $3.25would anybody pay $16 forone from a non ISO 9002 source?? Second - did you ever hear anyone say "that pieceof crap I got from Starrett"? Think about it! Chris On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:00:11 -0400, Ted Knott wrote: I have Golden Witch point and I use it and a dialindicator to check thedepths that I set first with a depth Micrometer androlls, ie, it needs areference point to calibrate it. My point is .005"short of a "true" pointand readings would be off by this amount if Ididn't calibrate it firstagainst a known setting.----------From: nobler captvonbek@earthlink.net;RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: 60 degree pointsDate: Friday, August 04, 2000 9:56 AM What's important is that it have a good point.You are measuring thedepthof the groove, not the 60 deg. angle. A hardenedpoint is very desirable. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Norling" ; Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:55 AMSubject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point madespecially for rodmakers. It'swider so it fits the planing form well and isaccurate.Dave-----Original Message----- From: nobler ;RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:08 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60*point that screwed rightin.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall.www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60degree points? MSC andmanyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sellStarrett items did notcarrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F DialIndicator. Or, is there asubstituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 5 13:35:28 2000 e75IZHG06519 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:36:43 -0500 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill No WAY, am I a woman hater, but an admirer ! Having spent many years inproduction work, and manufacturing, I'm just citing fact ! Women can standthe monotony of repetitive work, and do a better job, that a man any day !This applies to tedious work in particular ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Hi Nobler, You have been elected president of the "He Mans WomensHaters Club". Marty That's why women are used for production work, more than men.Thousandsofyears of repetitive work, has made them more adaptive to boring work !Training a person to do a special job is expensive. If they get bored,andquit, this is even more expensive ! Most assembly jobs are filled bywomen. Doing a new taper, is breaking the boredom ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 9:03 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Richard,I didn't think it was a flame until you mentioned it :-)You're right though. Tom really has done a very good job with thismill.I guess I've made about 12 Driggs and 5-6 para 15 by now as well as afewother tapers in multiple numbers and I must admit once you've planed afewrods of the same taper the fun of planing becomes a little less likefunand more a chore though I do get pretty excited about planing a newtaper.Strange isn't it? Tony At 09:29 AM 8/5/00 -0400, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories. >> Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands thatbecomegrumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downrightuncooperativeandcomplaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one is abletogetshoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the process andatworst,spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provide inmakingpossible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods,hollowmaking with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to trydifferentstuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra costandease,and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all with thesenseofhands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downrightintriguingaswell as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box and leaveoffthepreaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony, theaboveisnot a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and tobamboorodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just myenthusiasmforTom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we willprobablyfindyet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft. Thanksagain,Tom. Richard Tyree /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 5 13:53:35 2000 e75IrYG06842 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:54:56 -0500 "David Norling" , , Subject: Re: 60 degree points Chris, is this article published somewhere ? GMA----- Original Message ----- ; ; Subject: Re: 60 degree points Ted This is why I wrote that article to help guys find out for themselves.I have had students try and build rods with a bad depth gaugealibration - forthe reason you cite - Now for the question of the day - Why, when Starrett - an ISO 9002certified company makes a 60 degree tip for $3.25 would anybody pay $16forone from a non ISO 9002 source?? Second - did you ever hear anyone say "that piece of crap I got from Starrett"? Think about it! Chris On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:00:11 -0400, Ted Knott wrote: I have Golden Witch point and I use it and a dial indicator to check thedepths that I set first with a depth Micrometer and rolls, ie, it needs areference point to calibrate it. My point is .005" short of a "true"pointand readings would be off by this amount if I didn't calibrate it firstagainst a known setting.----------From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: 60 degree pointsDate: Friday, August 04, 2000 9:56 AM What's important is that it have a good point. You are measuring thedepthof the groove, not the 60 deg. angle. A hardened point is verydesirable. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Norling" Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:55 AMSubject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point made specially for rodmakers.It'swider so it fits the planing form well and is accurate.Dave-----Original Message----- From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:08 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwedrightin.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSCandmanyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did notcarrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there asubstituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Aug 5 14:38:24 2000 e75JcNG07479 (204.186.33.207) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill I have been trying to explain that for years to my wife when she iswashing dishes and scrubbing the bathroom. Very tedious and repetitiouswork. Something she is genetically programed to do. Marty No WAY, am I a woman hater, but an admirer ! Having spent many years inproduction work, and manufacturing, I'm just citing fact ! Women can standthe monotony of repetitive work, and do a better job, that a man any day !This applies to tedious work in particular ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "marty" Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:06 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Hi Nobler, You have been elected president of the "He Mans WomensHaters Club". Marty That's why women are used for production work, more than men.Thousandsofyears of repetitive work, has made them more adaptive to boring work!Training a person to do a special job is expensive. If they get bored,andquit, this is even more expensive ! Most assembly jobs are filled bywomen. Doing a new taper, is breaking the boredom ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 9:03 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Richard,I didn't think it was a flame until you mentioned it :-)You're right though. Tom really has done a very good job with thismill.I guess I've made about 12 Driggs and 5-6 para 15 by now as well asafewother tapers in multiple numbers and I must admit once you've planedafewrods of the same taper the fun of planing becomes a little less likefunand more a chore though I do get pretty excited about planing a newtaper.Strange isn't it? Tony At 09:29 AM 8/5/00 -0400, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: maker.Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories. >> Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands thatbecomegrumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downrightuncooperativeandcomplaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one is abletogetshoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the process andatworst,spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provide inmakingpossible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods,hollowmaking with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to trydifferentstuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra costandease,and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all with thesenseofhands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downrightintriguingaswell as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box and leaveoffthepreaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony, theaboveisnot a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and tobamboorodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just myenthusiasmforTom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we willprobablyfindyet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft. Thanksagain,Tom. Richard Tyree /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Aug 5 18:04:54 2000 e75N4sG09805 (204.186.33.70) Organization: ProLog Subject: Testing Whats going on? Did they throw me off the list? Marty from martinj@aa.net Sat Aug 5 18:37:38 2000 e75NbbG10283 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 16:37:34 -0700 Subject: RE: Testing no Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Testing Whats going on? Did they throw me off the list? Marty from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 5 19:38:21 2000 e760cKG11373 Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:39:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Testing You are coming in here. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Testing no Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 3:58 PM Subject: Testing Whats going on? Did they throw me off the list? Marty from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Aug 5 22:50:14 2000 e763o7G13691 Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:49:45 +0800 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill It sounds as if it's just male chauvinism but I agree. Used to work in aplace that made mountaineering clothing. There were about 40 women usingsewing machines and from time to time you'd get a bloke wanting a job.Often the males could do the job and we expected a very high standard ofworkmanship but they never hung around. They found the whole thing justtoorepetitious while the women seemed to prefer doing the same section of apiece day after day and generally objected to changing of patterns etc.Some of the women there had been making the same thing for getting onto20years. They just chatted while sewing and seemed pretty happy. Now, thisplace was no sweat shop and conditions were very good and for that reasonwhen I first got involved with the company I thought it wold have been bestif we alternated the sections the women sewed just for a change but I wastold pretty quickly by the women to just go back to my compter and leavethem alone.Now, if only I could find one of them that liked planing strips of bamboo.... Tony At 03:31 PM 8/5/00 -0400, marty wrote:I have been trying to explain that for years to my wife when she iswashing dishes and scrubbing the bathroom. Very tedious and repetitiouswork. Something she is genetically programed to do. Marty No WAY, am I a woman hater, but an admirer ! Having spent many years inproduction work, and manufacturing, I'm just citing fact ! Women canstandthe monotony of repetitive work, and do a better job, that a man any day!This applies to tedious work in particular ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "marty" Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:06 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Hi Nobler, You have been elected president of the "He Mans WomensHaters Club". Marty That's why women are used for production work, more than men.Thousandsofyears of repetitive work, has made them more adaptive to boringwork !Training a person to do a special job is expensive. If they get bored,andquit, this is even more expensive ! Most assembly jobs are filled bywomen. Doing a new taper, is breaking the boredom ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 9:03 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Richard,I didn't think it was a flame until you mentioned it :-)You're right though. Tom really has done a very good job with thismill.I guess I've made about 12 Driggs and 5-6 para 15 by now as well asafewother tapers in multiple numbers and I must admit once you'veplaned afewrods of the same taper the fun of planing becomes a little less likefunand more a chore though I do get pretty excited about planing a newtaper.Strange isn't it? Tony At 09:29 AM 8/5/00 -0400, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: maker.Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories. >> Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands thatbecomegrumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downrightuncooperativeandcomplaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one isabletogetshoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the processandatworst,spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provide inmakingpossible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods,hollowmaking with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to trydifferentstuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra costandease,and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all withthesenseofhands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downrightintriguingaswell as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box andleaveoffthepreaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony, theaboveisnot a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and tobamboorodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just myenthusiasmforTom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we willprobablyfindyet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft. Thanksagain,Tom. Richard Tyree /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had>> > > > from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Aug 6 04:21:32 2000 e769LWG17295 (204.186.33.46) Organization: ProLog Subject: Testing Hi all, Thanks for the info. Marty from jlintvet@mediaone.net Sun Aug 6 05:14:24 2000 e76AENG17848 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Well put and I can't agree more. I know I tend to tick some people off whenI talk about this topic and just say buy a couple extra points and worryabout making the rods. Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message ----- ; ; Subject: Re: 60 degree points Ted This is why I wrote that article to help guys find out for themselves.I have had students try and build rods with a bad depth gaugealibration - forthe reason you cite - Now for the question of the day - Why, when Starrett - an ISO 9002certified company makes a 60 degree tip for $3.25 would anybody pay $16forone from a non ISO 9002 source?? Second - did you ever hear anyone say "that piece of crap I got from Starrett"? Think about it! Chris On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:00:11 -0400, Ted Knott wrote: I have Golden Witch point and I use it and a dial indicator to check thedepths that I set first with a depth Micrometer and rolls, ie, it needs areference point to calibrate it. My point is .005" short of a "true"pointand readings would be off by this amount if I didn't calibrate it firstagainst a known setting.----------From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: 60 degree pointsDate: Friday, August 04, 2000 9:56 AM What's important is that it have a good point. You are measuring thedepthof the groove, not the 60 deg. angle. A hardened point is verydesirable. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "David Norling" Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:55 AMSubject: Re: 60 degree points Golden Witch sells a 60 degree point made specially for rodmakers.It'swider so it fits the planing form well and is accurate.Dave-----Original Message----- From: nobler RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:08 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree points I have a Mitutoyo too, and Travers had a 60* point that screwedrightin.It's a 5-40 thread as I recall. www.traverstool.com GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Olivieri" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: 60 degree points Does anyone have a source for Starrett 60 degree points? MSCandmanyotherother tools suppliers I checked that sell Starrett items did notcarrythem. I have a Mitutoyo 2904F Dial Indicator. Or, is there asubstituteforthe Starrett point? Thanks regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Aug 6 07:27:56 2000 e76CRtG18942 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Strippers Friends,I am looking for a source for a stripping guide. I normallyuse Daryl Whitehead's agate strippers but feel they are a little tooheavy for the 2 wt rod I am building.Also will the guide take bluing where it is soldered to theframe? I notice that the Mildrum ones have a Carbaloy ring, will thattake the bluing? Thanks, Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Aug 6 07:56:17 2000 e76CuGG19384 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Strippers P.S. If someone had a spare one lying around, suitable for a 2 wt, thatthey were willing to part with, I would take it off their hands. Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Friends,I am looking for a source for a stripping guide. I normallyuse Daryl Whitehead's agate strippers but feel they are a little tooheavy for the 2 wt rod I am building.Also will the guide take bluing where it is soldered to theframe? I notice that the Mildrum ones have a Carbaloy ring, will thattake the bluing? Thanks, Shawn from esavage@parkerduryee.com Sun Aug 6 08:41:37 2000 e76DfYG20404 "'saltwein@worldnet.att.net'" "'earsdws@duke.edu'" Subject: Popsicle Stick Sanders This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFFAE.B87C70FE Steve and Bod: Would you care to share with us your Popsicle Stick Sander technique thatyou referred to in your e-mail below? Thank you, Ed Savage [esavage@parkerduryee.com] -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. David, I use Pearsalls Gossamer and don't have any problems. I wrap before Ivarnish however. But usually I can seal the wraps with two thinned coats ofmy rod varnish then varnish the blank, and they lay down really nice. Ifyou're getting "fuzzies" then it is probably caused by your tensioningdevice. I have a stud, with springs and convex discs on either side of thespool and tension the spool not the thread. Gossamer is very fine andrunning it through a tensioner will cause it to fuzz up. Also, if you start getting a "build" on the wraps that is too high, or isuneven, then take a popsickle stick and some 600 wet and dry, and "dress"the varnish on the wraps until they are even and smooth. Be careful not tosand so much that you get through the varnish and into the silk... talkabout fuzzies!!!!, but if you're careful, you can sand the varnish on thewraps down, so your build is low and smooth and when you overvarnish theentire rod, your wraps will be very flat and smooth. Later,Bob ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. And here I thought I was the only one using popsicle stick sanders. Bob isright about being careful not to sand through the varnish. I make my stickswith 1000 grit. Regards, Steve ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFFAE.B87C70FE Normal0 6 pt=2=2= Steve and Bod: Would you care to share with us your Popsicle Stick =Sander techniquethat you referred to in your e-mail below? Thank you, Ed Savage[esavage@parkerduryee.com] -----Original =Message----- From: Bob Nunley = Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 12:38 =PM Rodmakers Subject: Re: varnishing wraps =question. David, I use Pearsalls Gossamer and don't have any = wraps withtwo thinned coats of my rod varnish then varnish the blank, and they =lay down getting "fuzzies" either side tensionerwill cause it to fuzz up. Also, if you start getting a "build" on =the wrapsthat is too high, or is uneven, then take a popsickle stick and some =600 wetand dry, and "dress" the varnish on the wraps until they are =even and =to sand somuch that you get through the varnish and into the silk... talk aboutfuzzies!!!!, but if you're careful, you can sand the varnish on the =wraps down,so your build is low and smooth and when you overvarnish the entire =rod, yourwraps will be very flat and smooth. Later, Bob ----Original =Message----- From: Steve Trauthwein Sent: Thursday, July 13, =200010:34 PM caneman@clnk.com Cc: earsdws@duke.edu; =Rodmakers Subject: Re: varnishing =wrapsquestion. And here I thought I was =the only Bob is right about being careful not to sand through the = grit. Regards, =Steve ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFFFAE.B87C70FE-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Aug 6 09:25:09 2000 e76EP8G21022 Subject: Quad Taper --=====================_7527939==_.ALT Here's the taper for the quad I just finished. I measured with the blank assembled in case you want a one piece taper. I casts a 4 WF very nicely at7.'0 0685 08210 09615 11720 12925 14830 16435 17240 18945 21050 23555 24260 25465 27670 28575 30080 33585 335Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_7527939==_.ALT Here's the taper for the quad I just finished. I measured with theblank assembled in case you want a one piece taper. I casts a 4 WF verynicely at 7.' Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_7527939==_.ALT-- from briansr@point-net.com Sun Aug 6 09:52:28 2000 e76EqRG21545 Sun, 6 Aug 2000 10:52:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Strippers Hi ShawnI use the Pacbay Titanium Carbonitride stripping guides and tiptops with theSIC ring.Look good AND are light.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Strippers Friends,I am looking for a source for a stripping guide. I normallyuse Daryl Whitehead's agate strippers but feel they are a little tooheavy for the 2 wt rod I am building.Also will the guide take bluing where it is soldered to theframe? I notice that the Mildrum ones have a Carbaloy ring, will thattake the bluing? Thanks, Shawn from briansr@point-net.com Sun Aug 6 09:52:29 2000 e76EqSG21547 Subject: Foulproof guides Doing a couple of Spinning rods .Does anyone know of a source for the AetnaFoulproof guides or if they are STILL available.TIA Brian from utzerath@execpc.com Sun Aug 6 09:57:38 2000 e76EvbG21947 Subject: Steelhead taper I've a notion to make a steelhead/salmon 8/9 that's not too heavy. I'd likesomething a little faster than EG's 221. Has anyone tried the "Big Dog" asa 2 pc. 102" or something similar, that they would recommend?TIA, Jim U from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Aug 6 10:05:48 2000 e76F5mG22164 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Good site Hey guys,Found this, from one of our own, about another one of us. Goodread, IMHO, Harry http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/fishing/features/bamboo.htm from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Aug 6 14:16:36 2000 e76JGZG25695 (5.0.2195) Subject: Catskill Gathering To All I had a call today from a rodmaker who wanted to stop by the gatheringwith his father for a 1/2 day. He is about an hour and half drive away. Iinformed him that he need not register- the gathering is open to the public to stop in . The Catskill Fly FishingCenter and Museum put the Gathering in their August Calendar of Events - as usual we will have visitorswho will stop by interested inbamboo fly rods. Please pass the word that people are welcome to stop in during thegathering - Ijust have to limit the attendance at the planned events and for food andworkshops. I donot expect someone to come for both days without having registered. Chris from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Aug 6 14:51:31 2000 e76JpVG26314 Sun, 06 Aug 2000 12:51:26 PDT Subject: Re: Foulproof guides From: "brian sturrock" Subject: Foulproof guidesDate: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 10:50:47 -0400 Doing a couple of Spinning rods .Does anyone know of a source for theAetnaFoulproof guides or if they are STILL available.TIA Brian They are still available from Merrick tackle. They are wholesale only with a $50 minimum and a business permit.1-914-688-22 A.J.thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from briansr@point-net.com Sun Aug 6 15:34:25 2000 e76KYOG27100 Sun, 6 Aug 2000 16:34:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Foulproof guides Thank's Allen.I'll get my local FF store on to this as I don't have aBusiness #Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Foulproof guides From: "brian sturrock" Subject: Foulproof guidesDate: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 10:50:47 -0400 Doing a couple of Spinning rods .Does anyone know of a source for theAetnaFoulproof guides or if they are STILL available.TIA Brian They are still available from Merrick tackle. They are wholesale only witha$50 minimum and a business permit.1-914-688-22 A.J.thramer ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from CALucker@aol.com Sun Aug 6 16:28:03 2000 e76LS2G28056 Subject: Unsubscribe Going on a trip. Please Unsubscribe.ThanksChris Lucker from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Aug 6 16:41:17 2000 e76LfGG28431 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: For the cane collector who plays golf... Here's an obscure item for the cane collector and golfer... A club with aHardy Palakona split cane shaft... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=397890872 I've been on the lookout for a golf club with a shaft by Wes Jordan, butstill haven't seen one yet. But, I'll admit I'm not looking too hard since Idon't play golf and even if I did, I'm a leftie so the odds of finding onethat I could use would be up in the lotto odds... Darrellwww.vfish.net from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Aug 6 16:41:22 2000 e76LfLG28436 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: tony - Morgan mill Maybe the bloke was just hanging around to meet the 40 women... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill It sounds as if it's just male chauvinism but I agree. Used to work in aplace that made mountaineering clothing. There were about 40 women usingsewing machines and from time to time you'd get a bloke wanting a job.Often the males could do the job and we expected a very high standard ofworkmanship but they never hung around. They found the whole thing justtoorepetitious while the women seemed to prefer doing the same section of apiece day after day and generally objected to changing of patterns etc.Some of the women there had been making the same thing for getting onto20years. They just chatted while sewing and seemed pretty happy. Now, thisplace was no sweat shop and conditions were very good and for that reasonwhen I first got involved with the company I thought it wold have been bestif we alternated the sections the women sewed just for a change but I wastold pretty quickly by the women to just go back to my compter and leavethem alone.Now, if only I could find one of them that liked planing strips ofbamboo.... Tony At 03:31 PM 8/5/00 -0400, marty wrote:I have been trying to explain that for years to my wife when she iswashing dishes and scrubbing the bathroom. Very tedious and repetitiouswork. Something she is genetically programed to do. Marty No WAY, am I a woman hater, but an admirer ! Having spent many years inproduction work, and manufacturing, I'm just citing fact ! Women canstandthe monotony of repetitive work, and do a better job, that a man any day!This applies to tedious work in particular ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "marty" Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:06 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Hi Nobler, You have been elected president of the "He Mans WomensHaters Club". Marty That's why women are used for production work, more than men.Thousandsofyears of repetitive work, has made them more adaptive to boringwork!Training a person to do a special job is expensive. If they getbored,andquit, this is even more expensive ! Most assembly jobs are filled bywomen. Doing a new taper, is breaking the boredom ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; ; Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 9:03 AMSubject: Re: tony - Morgan mill Richard,I didn't think it was a flame until you mentioned it :-)You're right though. Tom really has done a very good job with thismill.I guess I've made about 12 Driggs and 5-6 para 15 by now as well asafewother tapers in multiple numbers and I must admit once you'veplaned afewrods of the same taper the fun of planing becomes a little lesslikefunand more a chore though I do get pretty excited about planing a newtaper.Strange isn't it? Tony At 09:29 AM 8/5/00 -0400, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/5/00 6:57:19 AM Central Daylight Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: maker.Usersof the mill prob fall into three categories. >> Tony: Add in another or two; users with old arms and hands thatbecomegrumblesome after strip # 1 with hand plane and downrightuncooperativeandcomplaining after # 2 or # 3. With the Morgan Hand Mill, one isabletogetshoulder, hips and thighs as well as both arms into the processandatworst,spread the pain out a bit. Then add in the versatility of the little washer thingies provideinmakingpossible short, large swells ahead of the grip, make hollow rods,hollowmaking with swells, cored rods for those of us who like to trydifferentstuff, etc., etc all in quads, pents, and hexs at small extra costandease,and not to mention the ease of making of 2-stripers and all withthesenseofhands-on connectivity, and the contraption becomes downrightintriguingaswell as ingenuous. Whew!! Guess I'd better jump down off this high soap box andleaveoffthepreaching. Sorry if it sounded a bit strident as honestly Tony,theaboveisnot a flame of any sort; you are a contributor to the list and tobamboorodmaking very high in my esteem, indeed; the above is just myenthusiasmforTom's magic machine coming through. As time goes on, we willprobablyfindyet more advances it adds to the richness of our art/craft.Thanksagain,Tom. Richard Tyree /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will convergeIn the hub of a wheel;But the use of the cartWill depend on the partOf the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Aug 6 18:12:21 2000 e76NCLG00443 16:12:21 PDT Subject: test test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Aug 6 18:34:27 2000 e76NYRG01206 ;Sun, 6 Aug 2000 23:34:21 +0000 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" ,"'earsdws@duke.edu'" Subject: Re: Popsicle Stick Sanders Ed, My wife goes through bomb pops like every day is the fourth of July. Iuse the sticks for stirring, spreading glue, scraping and etc. I use two coats of color preserver and three coats of varnish on mywraps. I sand between the first and second coat of varnish. I use tojust fold the sandpaper over but I found that I did not have good enoughcontrol on the edge of the wraps. I now glue 1000 grit wet dry paper to popsicle sticks that I havetapered toward each end from the middle (I do this on a bandsaw). I makeup a dozen or so at a time and have them handy when I need them. It islike having a tiny fine file. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dnorl@uswest.net Sun Aug 6 18:35:57 2000 e76NZuG01320 (63.228.4.74) Subject: Re: Popsicle Stick Sanders This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BFFFD6.8B55BF40 Anyone use 4/0 steel wool instead of sandpaper. Works for me seems like =less chance to go through the varnish.Dave-----Original Message-----From: Savage, Edward 'saltwein@worldnet.att.net' Cc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu' ; ='earsdws@duke.edu' Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:42 AMSubject: Popsicle Stick Sanders Steve and Bod: Would you care to share with us your Popsicle Stick Sander technique =that you referred to in your e-mail below? Thank you, Ed Savage [esavage@parkerduryee.com] -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 12:38 PM Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. David, I use Pearsalls Gossamer and don't have any problems. I wrap before =I varnish however. But usually I can seal the wraps with two thinned =coats of my rod varnish then varnish the blank, and they lay down really =nice. If you're getting "fuzzies" then it is probably caused by your =tensioning device. I have a stud, with springs and convex discs on =either side of the spool and tension the spool not the thread. Gossamer =is very fine and running it through a tensioner will cause it to fuzz =up. Also, if you start getting a "build" on the wraps that is too high, =or is uneven, then take a popsickle stick and some 600 wet and dry, and ="dress" the varnish on the wraps until they are even and smooth. Be =careful not to sand so much that you get through the varnish and into =the silk... talk about fuzzies!!!!, but if you're careful, you can sand =the varnish on the wraps down, so your build is low and smooth and when =you overvarnish the entire rod, your wraps will be very flat and smooth. Later, Bob ----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 10:34 PM Cc: earsdws@duke.edu; Rodmakers Subject: Re: varnishing wraps question. And here I thought I was the only one using popsicle stick sanders. =Bob is right about being careful not to sand through the varnish. I =make my sticks with 1000 grit. Regards, Steve ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BFFFD6.8B55BF40 =0D =0D =0D ==0D=0D =0D Normal=0D =0=0D =0D =6pt=0D ==2=0D =2=0D==0D=0D Anyone use 4/0steel = varnish.Dave -----Original = 'caneman@clnk.com' = <saltwein@worldnet.att.net&g= 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= 'earsdws@duke.edu' Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:42 AMSubject: Popsicle = Sanders and Bod: you care to share with us your Popsicle Stick Sander technique that = referred to in your e-mail below? you, Savage [esavage@parkerduryee.com] Message----- Bob Nunley Thursday, July 13, 2000 12:38 PM earsdws@duke.edu; Rodmakers Re: varnishing wraps question. David, = the wraps with two thinned coats of my rod varnish then varnish the = If you're getting "fuzzies" then it is probably = a stud, with springs and convex discs on either side of the spool = Gossamer is very fine and running it through a tensioner will = it to fuzz up. if you start getting a "build" on the wraps that is too = is uneven, then take a popsickle stick and some 600 wet and dry, and = = so much that you get through the varnish and into the silk... talk = fuzzies!!!!, but if you're careful, you can sand the varnish on the = down, so your build is low and smooth and when you overvarnish the = rod, your wraps will be very flat and =smooth. Later,Bob Message----- Thursday, July 13, 2000 10:34 PM caneman@clnk.com earsdws@duke.edu; Rodmakers Re: varnishing wraps question. = make my sticks with 1000 grit. Steve ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BFFFD6.8B55BF40-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Sun Aug 6 19:25:35 2000 e770PYG02377 Subject: Tubes as storage I've read that bamboo rods shouldn't be kept in tubes. Tubes provide rod protection enroute we all agree, but why shouldn't a tubebe used to store the rod at home, as long as the rod isn't put up damp; or,tubed to reside in front of a west window where the deck thermometer read110* F. here today @ 4:00 pm ?Ed from channer1@rmi.net Sun Aug 6 21:24:14 2000 e772OCG04915 Subject: Re: Strippers Shawn Pineo wrote: Friends,I am looking for a source for a stripping guide. I normallyuse Daryl Whitehead's agate strippers but feel they are a little tooheavy for the 2 wt rod I am building.Also will the guide take bluing where it is soldered to theframe? I notice that the Mildrum ones have a Carbaloy ring, will thattake the bluing? Thanks, ShawnShawn;Agate guides are a bit too expensive for my taste and if you crack one ,it will shred your line in a few casts. I have settled on Pac Baytitanium carbide casting guides in size 8mm. for all my strippers, theyare very hard, not too heavy and a beautifulblack color, they also onlycost about $2.50 each. I get them from Ron Barch.John from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Aug 6 21:39:02 2000 e772d2G05394 Subject: SRG plans Guys,Plans are coming right along for the Southern RodmakersGathering. If you need any info this week, check with RickCrenshaw, Mike Biondo, Dennis Higham, or Ken Cole. I'll beout suffering along a Missouri Spring Creek till Friday. Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Aug 6 21:47:51 2000 e772lpG05790 Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:49:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Tubes as storage All of my PHY's have been in tubes, kept in a dark closet, for almost 50years. Nothing wrong that I can see ! I never put on up wet tho' ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tubes as storage I've read that bamboo rods shouldn't be kept in tubes. Tubes provide rod protection enroute we all agree, but why shouldn't atubebe used to store the rod at home, as long as the rod isn't put up damp;or,tubed to reside in front of a west window where the deck thermometerread110* F. here today @ 4:00 pm ?Ed from timklein@uswest.net Sun Aug 6 23:43:35 2000 e774hZG08811 (63.225.127.235) Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill My wife was standing right over my shoulder when this message hit myscreen!Are you guys trying to get me kicked outta here? Tim I have been trying to explain that for years to my wife when she iswashing dishes and scrubbing the bathroom. Very tedious and repetitiouswork. Something she is genetically programed to do. Marty from timklein@uswest.net Sun Aug 6 23:46:23 2000 e774kNG08991 (63.225.127.235) Subject: Re: Strippers Subject lines like this one aren't helping either! (she's REALLY starting to wonder what I do on the computer all night!) ---Tim from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 7 02:42:36 2000 e777gTG12737 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:42:23 +0800 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:42:21 +0800 Subject: tony - Morgan mill WARNING Poem ahead The Man from Out Way Back. There was a movement at the workshop That Old Bill from way out yonder back Had bought himself a mill.It had a handle and a platen and weighed on 30 pound. So all the known rodmakers and Some of much less reputeMustered at the workshop;Just to give Old Bill rebuke. There were people crowded everywhere, But there was one staring sternly and sitting on a chair, His outlook was mysterious and he gave out quite an aire.And I could see him quite plainly right from where I stood.He was the man they called Nobody because Nobody could be quite that good. Nobody took it in a while then when his mind was set,He called out over loudly that he'd like to take a bet.To turn his back on good steel forms would make him feel a sinner,Old Bill just smiled warmly and said "well come on in then spinner". Nobody then rolled up his sleeves and tightened up his belt,Old Bill had read the instructions well, relaxed is how he felt.Nobody sharpened up his irons, the planes lined up there were a few,All eyes turned squarely to the mill just then, it was spark el-ing and new. No time had passed and shavings stood knee deep upon the floor,There was blood on Nobody's torn up fingers now, blunt edges made a chore,But Old bill just kept on milling on, he didn't give a damn,He simply milled on some more then poured himself a dram. Bill quipped, "go on old mate and lighten up, you've gone and lost yourspark",His "mate" tarried only shortly then, and made a rude remark,Old Bill just shrugged and took a pass, just light now just you mark,Only just a shaving here, a touch no more, a little off the "bark". The boys were level pegging now, though Old Bill was no young bloke,Planed curls were flying rapidly with just a whisp of smoke,A plane was dropped the iron chipped but damage was collateral,Bill chimed "You know these cutters cut both sides at once, the splinesthey are equilateral". (sorry) A half dozen splines each they made, one sweating, bloody, tired and sore,The other hardly breathing fast and ready to mill some more.The Judge called for calm, more people crowding through the door,And when it was all said and done, he declared the thing a draw. Tony Apologies to A (Banjo) Paterson/**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 7 04:21:27 2000 e779LRG14335 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: What makes me mad This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C00026.2D47A080 I have a rod that I still use today, that has right twist guides on the =butt section and left twist on the tip section... did any of ya notice =it last year at the SRG? Hate to admit it, but I built that rod for =myself about 8 years ago and last year was when I noticed it! Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: William Jette Cc: rodmakers Date: Sunday, July 30, 2000 12:17 AMSubject: Re: What makes me mad Ray,Thanks for the message. Makes me feel a little better about putting =a No.2 guide in a spot that was supposed to have a No. 1 guide and not =noticing the error until I am showing the rod to a potential customer. Will Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 7:52 PMSubject: What makes me mad Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work bench =wrapping a rod and then when it's finally about done I look down the rod =and see that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat. =Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C00026.2D47A080 I have a rod that I still use today,= right twist guides on the butt section and left twist on the tip = it! Later,Bob -----Original = = rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, July 30, 2000 12:17 AMSubject: Re: Whatmakes = madRay,Thanks for the message. Makes me = better about putting a No.2 guide in a spot that was supposed to = 1 guide and not noticing the error until I am showing the rod to a = customer. Will ----- Original Message ----- = Ray = Sent: Saturday, July 29, = PMSubject: What makes me =mad Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is = at the work bench wrapping a rod and then when it's finally = look down the rod and see that somehow I've managed to wrap one = onto the wrong flat. Egads!!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C00026.2D47A080-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 7 04:40:05 2000 e779e2G14739 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 17:39:30 +0800 Subject: Re: What makes me mad "rodmakers" One of the rods I brought to Greyling had an English twist while the restwere US. I knew it was like that because I just used gear I had lyingabout but didn't think anybody would notice unless the rod wasscrutinised *HOWEVER* I don't think the rod was fully out of it's bagwhen Reed (eyes of a hawk) Curry spoted the odd guide out and commentedon it. Tony At 04:15 AM 8/7/00 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote: I have a rod that I still usetoday, that has right twist guides on the butt section and left twist on Hate to admit it, but I built that rod for myself about 8 years ago andlast year was when I noticed it! Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: William Jette rsgould@cmc.net Cc: rodmakers Date: Sunday, July 30, 2000 12:17 AMSubject: Re: What makes me mad Ray,Thanks for the message. Makes me feel a little better about putting aNo.2 guide in a spot that was supposed to have a No. 1 guide and notnoticing the error until I am showing the rod to a potentialcustomer. Will----- Original Message ----- From:Ray Gould Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 7:52 PMSubject: What makes me mad Hi Gang,You know what makes me mad is slaving away at the work benchwrapping a rod and then when it's finally about done I look down the rod andsee that somehow I've managed to wrap one guide onto the wrong flat.Egads!!Ray /**************************************************************************/ AV Young /**************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 7 05:20:32 2000 e77AKVG15476 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Steeple cast... Bob PS: Sorry, it's 5 in the morning, can't give long answers! LOL -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Parabolic rods One of the shortcomings I've found with parabolic rods is something Ihadn't considered or come across on this list. Because the rod bends sodeeply, the line is actually traveling lower to the ground than with afaster action rod. So, if you need to wade deep, or fish from a float tube,no matter how high you try to throw your back cast with something like an8ft para 15, it is as if you are fishing a shorter rod. It is difficult tokeep the line off the water at this depth. If you are fishing from the bank, wading shallow, or standing in a boat,then then paras have room to shine. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: Parabolic rods As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become moreand more impressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod thatcan cast farther than a fast rod. As much as the plastic rodmakers want you to believe a fast rod will cast farther thana slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. A parabolichas a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the fulllength of the rod to participate in the cast, with the stiffmid giving the "punch" to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition from plastic rods, but I now believe that to truly appreciatea bamboo rod you have to graduate to a parabolic bamboo rod.A parabolic isn't real easy to cast at first especially ifyou are used to a plastic rod, but if you give it time anduse it a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing,you will be well rewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite Ithink they will have something that will be very popular.Darryl from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Aug 7 06:49:23 2000 e77BnLG16924 Subject: Tony Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C000B8.3FF86600 That Shakespeare's ghost dropped in to sit! Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C000B8.3FF86600 You'd think from the things that = That Shakespeare's ghost droppedin = sit! Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C000B8.3FF86600-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Aug 7 07:13:58 2000 e77CDvG17531 Subject: Fwd: tony - Morgan mill WARNING Poem ahead --part1_d3.8363d90.26c001fb_boundary --part1_d3.8363d90.26c001fb_boundary Full-name: Eastkoyfly Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill WARNING Poem ahead Tony,No offense to the hand mill or anyone who has one... but with my beveler and a planing form I can rough and final plane a two tip rod in about 3 1/2 hours (sometimes less) and my finished rods are usually no more than .002off and I don't have to soak my strips.Joe --part1_d3.8363d90.26c001fb_boundary-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 07:49:23 2000 e77CnMG18362 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 07:47:53 -0500 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill It's a compliment, NOT a put down ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill My wife was standing right over my shoulder when this message hit myscreen!Are you guys trying to get me kicked outta here? Tim I have been trying to explain that for years to my wife when she iswashing dishes and scrubbing the bathroom. Very tedious and repetitiouswork. Something she is genetically programed to do. Marty from freaner@home.com Mon Aug 7 07:52:14 2000 e77CqDG18553 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill WARNING Poem ahead At 3:54 PM +0800 on 8/7/00, Tony Young wrote about tony - Morgan mill WARNING Poem ahead The Man from Out Way Back. Excellent work! Here's one back at you : There was a rod builder from OzWhose hands were all covered with gauze.When asked if it hurt,His answer was curt:"No hand planes" should be one of our laws. The next thing he said down under:When planing it's easy to blunder.With a Morgan hand-millAnd just a bit of skill,The result is an eighth World Wonder! Claude from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 08:13:23 2000 e77DDNG19435 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 08:11:54 -0500 , Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Yes, high lift back cast, as tho' you had trees at your back. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Steeple cast... Bob PS: Sorry, it's 5 in the morning, can't give long answers! LOL -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: RE: Parabolic rods One of the shortcomings I've found with parabolic rods is something Ihadn't considered or come across on this list. Because the rod bends sodeeply, the line is actually traveling lower to the ground than with afaster action rod. So, if you need to wade deep, or fish from a floattube,no matter how high you try to throw your back cast with something likean8ft para 15, it is as if you are fishing a shorter rod. It is difficult tokeep the line off the water at this depth. If you are fishing from the bank, wading shallow, or standing in a boat,then then paras have room to shine. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: Parabolic rods As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become moreand more impressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod thatcan cast farther than a fast rod. As much as the plastic rodmakers want you to believe a fast rod will cast farther thana slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. A parabolichas a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the fulllength of the rod to participate in the cast, with the stiffmid giving the "punch" to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition from plastic rods, but I now believe that to truly appreciatea bamboo rod you have to graduate to a parabolic bamboo rod.A parabolic isn't real easy to cast at first especially ifyou are used to a plastic rod, but if you give it time anduse it a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing,you will be well rewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite Ithink they will have something that will be very popular.Darryl from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Aug 7 08:36:59 2000 e77DaxG20342 , Subject: Re: Parabolic rods I do't know if it was inteneded, but Later Granger and Wright & McGillGranger rods have a para action but also have a strong swlled butt. Theaction becomes "parabolic" from there. These rods do not flex into thehandle but behave much like a para. This gives you an extra 6-8" to workwith. -Doug At 05:14 AM 8/7/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Steeple cast... Bob PS: Sorry, it's 5 in the morning, can't give long answers! LOL -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: RE: Parabolic rods One of the shortcomings I've found with parabolic rods is something Ihadn't considered or come across on this list. Because the rod bends sodeeply, the line is actually traveling lower to the ground than with afaster action rod. So, if you need to wade deep, or fish from a float tube,no matter how high you try to throw your back cast with something like an8ft para 15, it is as if you are fishing a shorter rod. It is difficult tokeep the line off the water at this depth. If you are fishing from the bank, wading shallow, or standing in a boat,then then paras have room to shine. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: Parabolic rods As I experiment more with parabolics, I find I become moreand more impressed with the design. Imagine a slow rod thatcan cast farther than a fast rod. As much as the plastic rodmakers want you to believe a fast rod will cast farther thana slow rod, with a parabolic rod it isn't true. A parabolichas a stiff middle with flex in the butt, allowing the fulllength of the rod to participate in the cast, with the stiffmid giving the "punch" to the cast. The faster bamboo rods, like the Sir D, are a good transition from plastic rods, but I now believe that to truly appreciatea bamboo rod you have to graduate to a parabolic bamboo rod.A parabolic isn't real easy to cast at first especially ifyou are used to a plastic rod, but if you give it time anduse it a lot, adjusting to the rather unique casting timing,you will be well rewarded. If plastic rod makers ever make a parabolic rod in graphite Ithink they will have something that will be very popular.Darryl Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 08:50:06 2000 e77Do5G20885 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 08:51:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Steelhead taper PHY's Bobby Doer was made for him, to fish for salmon. It's an 8'-6" for #8line. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Steelhead taper I've a notion to make a steelhead/salmon 8/9 that's not too heavy. I'dlikesomething a little faster than EG's 221. Has anyone tried the "Big Dog"asa 2 pc. 102" or something similar, that they would recommend?TIA, Jim U from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 7 08:50:21 2000 e77DoJG20898 Subject: Re: Fwd: tony - Morgan mill WARNING Poem ahead --=====================_2923950==_.ALT Joe,You could set up a drive thru buddy!Hand Mill Bob Tony,No offense to the hand mill or anyone who has one... but with my bevelerand a planing form I can rough and final plane a two tip rod in about 3 1/2hours (sometimes less) and my finished rods are usually no more than .002offand I don't have to soak my strips.Joe Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_2923950==_.ALT Joe,You could set up a drive thru buddy!Hand Mill Bob Tony, one... but with my beveler and a planing form I can rough and final plane a two tip rod in about 3 hours (sometimes less) and my finished rods are usually no more than .002off and I don't have to soak my strips. Joe Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_2923950==_.ALT-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Aug 7 09:20:59 2000 e77EKxG22205 Subject: Re: tony - Morgan mill WARNING Poem ahead On second thought it is nice for quads and pentas...I think I'll start saving my money I want a handmill,I'm just jealous !!!!Joe from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 7 11:43:23 2000 e77GhNG27740 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:37:54 -0500 Subject: Bamboo People This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_068B_01C00063.E83F51C0 List,I just got back early this morning from Livingston & the Federation =Conclave and just had to shoot back a report. Those of you who didn't =go... you missed a great time. Oh, the fishing was OK, but the people =were great and sitting in the booth with Ralph, Mike, Hank and Phil was =very memorable. I had to leave on Friday, and all the dirve on saturday =found myself thinking "Hmmmm... wonder what Ralph and the guys are doing= I did score a nice strike while I was there. The young artist who =painted the mural on the wall in the Federation Museum, Michael Simons, =traded me a HUGE bull trout work for one of my rods. When (and if, =cause it seems like a neverending task) I get the new shop complete, it =will be the centerpiece of my office wall. If you're ever in =Livingston, go to the Murray Hotel's Lounge. ONe of the prints is in =there and it is amazing, to say the least. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_068B_01C00063.E83F51C0 List, people were great and sitting in the booth with Ralph, Mike, Hank and = found myself thinking "Hmmmm... wonder what Ralph and the guys are= young artist who painted the mural on the wall in the Federation Museum, = cause it seems like a neverending task) I get the new shop complete, it = say the least. Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_068B_01C00063.E83F51C0-- from ddeloach@pcisys.net Mon Aug 7 12:04:48 2000 e77H4lG28745 Subject: custom ferrule Does anyone know of a shop that will make a replacement ferrule for an oldrod? I need a male tip ferrule for an old LLBean rod and I don't have ametal lathe. Or any of the hobbyists out there interested? Email off listthanks. Don DeLoach from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Aug 7 12:28:33 2000 e77HSWG29867 Subject: FFF Conclave This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C00073.5AB7AE00 Guys,I got back yesterday from the FF Conclave in Livingston and just wanted =to let everyone know what a fun time was had by all.Ralph Moon was the head honcho at the tables which were set up for the =rodmakers, also in attendance were Bob Nunley with some of the nicest =rods I've played with in a long time, Hank Woolman doing his thing with =adjusting some tapers and wrapping guides (very nice work), and Phil =(sorry about the last name Phil, duh--brain hiccup).I was there as ballast to keep the tables from walking away! 8^) It was definately an enlightning few days and we all had a chance to =give our opinions on a bunch of different methods and to show or explain =just how we did things in our own shops. The info was flowing fast and =free!! Hopefully next year will be even better, and if you don't feel like =joining at the table, you can always come by the shoot the bull!! The weather was very warm, and apparently the drought isn't doing anyone =any good in Montana. Bob, Billie, and I tried a couple of times (BTW- =Billie caught her first trout on a fly during the meeting!!) with =limited success. We were supposed to join up with Jerry Madigan for a =hike up to Slough Creek, but couldn't make it (and my phone wouldn't =work to leave Jerry a message--sorry buddy, but thanks just the same!!). All things considered though I know I had a blast both during and at =night after the conlave, so if next year you can possibly fit it in, I =would definately be there!!! MikeMike ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C00073.5AB7AE00 Guys,I got back yesterday from the FF = Livingston and just wanted to let everyone know what a fun time was had = all.Ralph Moon was the head honcho at the tables = set up for the rodmakers, also in attendance were Bob Nunley with some = nicest rods I've played with in a long time, Hank Woolman doing his = adjusting some tapers and wrapping guides (very nice work), and Phil = about the last name Phil, duh--brain hiccup).I was there as ballast to keep the tables from = It was definately an enlightning few days and we = chance to give our opinions on a bunch of different methods and to show = explain just how we did things in our own shops. The info was flowing = free!! even better, and if = bull!! The weather was very warm, and apparently the= isn't doing anyone any good in Montana. Bob, Billie, and I tried a = times (BTW- Billie caught her first trout on a fly during the meeting!!) = up to Slough Creek, but couldn't make it (and my phone wouldn't work to = Jerry a message--sorry buddy, but thanks just the same!!). All things considered though I know I had a = during and at night after the conlave, so if next year you can possibly = in, I would definately be there!!! MikeMike ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C00073.5AB7AE00-- from cathcreek@hotmail.com Mon Aug 7 12:36:32 2000 e77HaWG00224 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:36:26 -0700 Mon, 07 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Re: custom ferrule FILETIME=[035C02F0:01C00096] Don, try Dave LeClair. He does this kind of stuff and is a great guy. He is on the list and will probably respond. If not, let me know and I will find his email for you. Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: "Don DeLoach" Subject: custom ferruleDate: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:06:23 -0600 Does anyone know of a shop that will make a replacement ferrule for an oldrod? I need a male tip ferrule for an old LLBean rod and I don't have ametal lathe. Or any of the hobbyists out there interested? Email off listthanks. Don DeLoach ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from brookie@frii.com Mon Aug 7 12:50:49 2000 e77HoiG00832 Subject: Re: Bamboo People Bob N wrote re the FFF happenin in Livingston today : I just got back early this morning from Livingston & the Federation Conclave and just had to shoot back a report. ...snip... I did score a nice strike while I was there. The young artist who painted the mural on the wall in the Federation Museum, Michael Simons, traded me a HUGE bull trout work for one of my rods. When (and if, cause it seems like a neverending task) I get the new shop complete, it will be the centerpiece of my office wall. If you're ever in Livingston, go to the Murray Hotel's Lounge. ONe of the prints is in there andit is amazing, to say the least. Ahhh, wonderful to be getting older. We have such GREAT memories tocounton. Your mention of Michael Simons brings back in the early 70's, maybeeven late 60's...in Colorado. It was definitely peace love and hippietime, as such everyone knew everyone. One big happy family in Boulder,Colorado. We were downhill skiing and fishing back then... among otherthings *G* And I -do- remember going fishing with friends and Michael.Up to Wyoming to fish Lake Allen I believe. At the time, don't know ifhe was an artist, certainly not of reknown. Now I see he's made it 'large'! Haven't seen Michael since then, but through the comradeship offlyfishing (this list included), all of us keep in touch :-))) And yes, he does superb work ! suecolorado from jfoster@gte.net Mon Aug 7 13:12:36 2000 e77ICZG01689 Subject: Re: PERFECT reels creator="4D4F5353" does anyone know the location of Ed Fody jerry from utzerath@execpc.com Mon Aug 7 14:12:46 2000 e77JCjG03733 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:12:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Steelhead taper I haven't seen the "Bobby Doer" taper; if it's faster than most PHY heavyrods, I'd like to have the diameters. The Hardy mentioned earlier alsolooks interesting. Thanks for the responses, Jim U PHY's Bobby Doer was made for him, to fish for salmon. It's an 8'-6" for#8line. from rmoon@ida.net Mon Aug 7 14:24:26 2000 e77JOPG04472 Subject: Re: Bamboo People You may or may not know, that Michael Simondid all of the art work forFreshwater Wilderness, Yellowstone Fishes and their World. by Schulleryand Varley. Sorry it is out of print, but worth getting if you can finda copy. Ralph from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Aug 7 15:34:24 2000 e77KYNG07103 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Steelhead taper i have cast the bobby doerr - it's an exceptionally powerful parabolic 9wt. it's also very heavy and really kicks back into your hand and wrist when it"unloads". i don't know that i would want to fish the rod for any extended period oftime, but a bigger man might. if you want the taper let me know, and i will dig in my PHY archives to findit. chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Steelhead taper I haven't seen the "Bobby Doer" taper; if it's faster than most PHY heavyrods, I'd like to have the diameters. The Hardy mentioned earlier alsolooks interesting. Thanks for the responses, Jim U PHY's Bobby Doer was made for him, to fish for salmon. It's an 8'-6" for#8line. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Aug 7 15:35:44 2000 e77KZiG07241 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Parabolic rods A steeple cast is fine for shorter distances but isn't a cast one wouldchoose when you are trying to throw a fly 70 ft. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 6:15 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Steeple cast... Bob PS: Sorry, it's 5 in the morning, can't give long answers! LOL -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: RE: Parabolic rods One of the shortcomings I've found with parabolic rods is something Ihadn't considered or come across on this list. Because therod bends sodeeply, the line is actually traveling lower to the groundthan with afaster action rod. So, if you need to wade deep, or fish from a float tube,no matter how high you try to throw your back cast withsomething like an 8ft para 15, it is as if you are fishing a shorter rod. It isdifficult tokeep the line off the water at this depth. If you are fishing from the bank, wading shallow, orstanding in a boat,then then paras have room to shine. Richard from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 15:42:51 2000 e77KgoG07697 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:41:06 -0500 Subject: Re: custom ferrule Tony Young on our list does ferrules. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: custom ferrule Does anyone know of a shop that will make a replacement ferrule for an oldrod? I need a male tip ferrule for an old LLBean rod and I don't have ametal lathe. Or any of the hobbyists out there interested? Email off listthanks. Don DeLoach from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 15:50:36 2000 e77KoaG08082 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:48:51 -0500 , Subject: Re: Steelhead taper And Paul called it a "light" salmon rod ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Steelhead taper i have cast the bobby doerr - it's an exceptionally powerful parabolic9wt. it's also very heavy and really kicks back into your hand and wrist whenit"unloads". i don't know that i would want to fish the rod for any extended period oftime, but a bigger man might. if you want the taper let me know, and i will dig in my PHY archives tofindit. chris. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Steelhead taper I haven't seen the "Bobby Doer" taper; if it's faster than most PHY heavyrods, I'd like to have the diameters. The Hardy mentioned earlier alsolooks interesting. Thanks for the responses, Jim U PHY's Bobby Doer was made for him, to fish for salmon. It's an 8'-6" for#8line. from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 7 15:59:29 2000 e77KxSG08522 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't really require cast outside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple cast outside of that range... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be too embarrassed trying to untangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keeping the line low to the waterwithout getting it into the water, but then again, my tapers aren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw a tight loop and moderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, I guess, keeps me out of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike S talked about that I had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I also use this same rod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in places where you have to crawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weeds and brush, yet lay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter of what you get used to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I've become accustomed to castingthem low to the water and keeping myself out of trouble. Bob-----Original Message----- ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Parabolic rods A steeple cast is fine for shorter distances but isn't a cast one wouldchoose when you are trying to throw a fly 70 ft. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 6:15 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Steeple cast... Bob PS: Sorry, it's 5 in the morning, can't give long answers! LOL -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:31 PMSubject: RE: Parabolic rods One of the shortcomings I've found with parabolic rods is something Ihadn't considered or come across on this list. Because therod bends sodeeply, the line is actually traveling lower to the groundthan with afaster action rod. So, if you need to wade deep, or fish from a float tube,no matter how high you try to throw your back cast withsomething like an 8ft para 15, it is as if you are fishing a shorter rod. It isdifficult tokeep the line off the water at this depth. If you are fishing from the bank, wading shallow, orstanding in a boat,then then paras have room to shine. Richard from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Aug 7 16:05:33 2000 e77L5XG08818 Mon, 07 Aug 2000 14:05:28 PDT Subject: Re: custom ferrule From: "Don DeLoach" Subject: custom ferruleDate: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:06:23 -0600 Does anyone know of a shop that will make a replacement ferrule for an oldrod? I need a male tip ferrule for an old LLBean rod and I don't have ametal lathe. Or any of the hobbyists out there interested? Email off listthanks. Don DeLoach I think that Phillipson made alot of those rods for Bean, if so you can get an original set from Ricks Rods? in Colorado.A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Aug 7 17:03:34 2000 e77M3XG11609 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Parabolic - a definition Guys/Gals, And anyone supply me with a definition of just what a parabolic rod is.Got some - think that's what they are but everyone seems to be in on thesecret but me. help, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Aug 7 17:12:41 2000 e77MCeG12197 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Off Topic - World clock... Just downloaded and setup the utility from PC Magazine... clockrack. It wasprofiled in the magazine... It's really a cool little program for those whohave friends and business in the other parts of the world... You can get if from www.pcmag.com No commercial, blah, blah... I just thought it was a neat public domainprogram so I can figure out what time Tony Young from AU, our English,Japanese and Scandinavian friends are up and about... You can configure upto about 20 different clocks and set your computer clock to be superaccurate. I set mine up with 10 clocks... Cheers, Darrellwww.vfish.net from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Mon Aug 7 18:40:33 2000 e77NeXG14237 +0000 Subject: Nylon thread Hello All, I just made a purchase on eBay of a lot of fly tying materials. In withthe thread are thirty four spools of nylon rod wrapping thread from sizeA to size E. I am trying to recoup some of my purchase price and was wondering ifthis would have any value to anyone on the list. Please answer off listto conform to the non-commercial policy of the list. Thanks, SteveIndependence, MO from BambooRods@aol.com Mon Aug 7 19:02:53 2000 e7802qG14785 Subject: "I need help" e-mail Just curious, has any of the other makers that have web sites received an email from "Glen" wanting a rod because of a fathers illness and his inability to buy a quality rod? Not wanting to be judgmental but...Doug Hall from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 7 19:09:12 2000 e7809CG15144 Subject: Re: "I need help" e-mail --=====================_2251082==_.ALT No, but I guess you should be flattered that he considers you to be both kind and skilled. (Let us know if he gets a rod! LOL)Bob At 08:02 PM 8/7/00 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote:Just curious, has any of the other makers that have web sites received anemail from "Glen" wanting a rod because of a fathers illness and hisinability to buy a quality rod? Not wanting to be judgmental but...Doug Hall Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_2251082==_.ALT No, but I guess you should be flattered that he considers you to be bothkind and skilled. (Let us know if he gets a rod! LOL)Bob At 08:02 PM 8/7/00 -0400, BambooRods@aol.com wrote: makers that have web sites received an email from "Glen" wanting a rod because of a fathers illnessand his but...Doug Hall Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_2251082==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 19:16:33 2000 e780GWG15480 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 19:18:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Parabolic - a definition As I understand it a pure parabolic flexes further into the butt, than say aYoung, which were/are modified parabolics. His early catalogs showed graphswith the bending curves under load, to illustrate this. There are otherswith far more knowledge on this than I, but what I got from it all was thatPHY designed more power into the lower area of his rods. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Parabolic - a definition Guys/Gals, And anyone supply me with a definition of just what a parabolic rod is.Got some - think that's what they are but everyone seems to be in on thesecret but me. help, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 19:21:59 2000 e780LwG15669 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 19:23:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Off Topic - World clock... I can find nothing about "clocktrack" on the site, and a search said no suchthing ! How did you access it Darrell ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Off Topic - World clock... Just downloaded and setup the utility from PC Magazine... clockrack. Itwasprofiled in the magazine... It's really a cool little program for thosewhohave friends and business in the other parts of the world... You can getif from www.pcmag.com No commercial, blah, blah... I just thought it was a neat public domainprogram so I can figure out what time Tony Young from AU, our English,Japanese and Scandinavian friends are up and about... You can configure upto about 20 different clocks and set your computer clock to be superaccurate. I set mine up with 10 clocks... Cheers, Darrellwww.vfish.net from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 7 19:32:16 2000 e780WDG16224 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 19:33:39 -0500 "Rod Makers" Subject: Re: Off Topic - World clock... Well, I found it finally. Man you are far more versed than I ! That's allotof complicated messing around ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Off Topic - World clock... I can find nothing about "clocktrack" on the site, and a search said nosuchthing ! How did you access it Darrell ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell A. Lee" Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:00 PMSubject: Off Topic - World clock... Just downloaded and setup the utility from PC Magazine... clockrack. Itwasprofiled in the magazine... It's really a cool little program for thosewhohave friends and business in the other parts of the world... You can getif from www.pcmag.com No commercial, blah, blah... I just thought it was a neat public domainprogram so I can figure out what time Tony Young from AU, our English,Japanese and Scandinavian friends are up and about... You can configureupto about 20 different clocks and set your computer clock to be superaccurate. I set mine up with 10 clocks... Cheers, Darrellwww.vfish.net from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Aug 7 19:59:03 2000 e780x3G16937 (204.186.33.202) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: custom ferrule Bailey Wood of Classic Sporting Enterprises also does it. Most LL Beanrods I have seen were by Edwards and Montague (higher end). Marty From: "Don DeLoach" Subject: custom ferruleDate: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:06:23 -0600 Does anyone know of a shop that will make a replacement ferrule for anoldrod? I need a male tip ferrule for an old LLBean rod and I don't have ametal lathe. Or any of the hobbyists out there interested? Email off listthanks. Don DeLoach I think that Phillipson made alot of those rods for Bean, if so you can getan original set from Ricks Rods? in Colorado.A.J.Thramer ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from yves@hwy97.net Mon Aug 7 20:10:37 2000 e781AaG17242 Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:10:36 -0700 Subject: Driggs guide spacing List: Does anyone have the original guide spacings for the 7' 2" PHYDriggs River Special handy. I would appreciate having it. TIA. Dave from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Aug 7 21:10:45 2000 e782AjG18401 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Parabolic rods Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally given up on parabolics yet. Thereare just too many people raving about them (especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect place to fish one yet. I generallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deep and where long rods and longcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is ideal there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I find stiffer butt rods betterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where short precise casts are needed (whereafast action rod like a Granger 7 ft really sing). I am presently thinking of building one of Charles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's or Perfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't really require castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple cast outside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be too embarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keeping the line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but then again, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw a tight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, I guess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike S talked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I also use this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in places where you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weeds and brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter of what you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I've become accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself out of trouble. Bob from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 7 21:23:50 2000 e782NoG18739 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: "I need help" e-mail Doug,I get all kinds of requests/letters, from "I love your rods, if only Icould afford one... If you ever have one you want to just get rid of..." to,"We need 25 rods for a fly fishing camp we are trying to start. Yourdonation is tax deductable, please let us know when we can expect the rods",but I haven't got the one you have... yet... Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: "I need help" e-mail Just curious, has any of the other makers that have web sites received anemail from "Glen" wanting a rod because of a fathers illness and hisinability to buy a quality rod? Not wanting to be judgmental but...Doug Hall from Oozakgpt@aol.com Mon Aug 7 21:27:41 2000 e782RfG18994 Subject: Binding cord tension I recently built a Bellinger style binder that actually I'm very impressed with from a design standpoint.When adjusting the binding cord tension I've read numerous post's in the archive,but do I need to take into account the tension created by the revolution of the binding spool?It seems to me that unless the spool is on a bearing base it also is going to create tension on the cord.TIA Greg T. from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 7 21:49:39 2000 e782ncG19596 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Hi Richard, I picked up a Per Brandin 71/2 parabolic supposedly built off aperfectionist taper in a quad format. All my other rods have taken a backseatthis year and I have fished it almost exclusely. It's hollowbuilt and verylight in the hand. I think I understand why there are so many "perfectionist"advocates on the list. Rich Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally given up on parabolics yet. Thereare just too many people raving about them (especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect place to fish one yet. I generallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deep and where long rods and longcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is ideal there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I find stiffer butt rods betterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where short precise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft really sing). I am presently thinking of building one of Charles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's or Perfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't really require castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple cast outside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be too embarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keeping the line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but then again, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw a tight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, I guess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike S talked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I also use this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in places where you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weeds and brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter of what you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I've become accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself out of trouble. Bob from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 7 22:10:53 2000 e783AqG19994 Subject: RE: Parabolic rods --=====================_13152253==_.ALT I have cast both, and I like the Driggs, although I must admit that this was my first rod, and I am partial to it. I really feel it does it all at 7'2."However, that quad Perfectionist sounds tempting.Bob M. At 09:30 PM 8/7/00 -0400, you wrote:Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally given up on parabolics yet. Thereare just too many people raving about them (especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect place to fish one yet. I generallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deep and where long rods and longcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is ideal there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I find stiffer butt rods betterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where short precise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft really sing). I am presently thinking of building one of Charles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's or Perfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't really require castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple cast outside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be too embarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keeping the line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but then again, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw a tight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, I guess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike S talked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I also use this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in places where you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weeds and brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter of what you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I've become accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself out of trouble. Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_13152253==_.ALT I have cast both, and I like the Driggs, although I must admit that thiswas my first rod, and I am partial to it. I really feel it does it all at7'2."However, that quad Perfectionist sounds tempting.Bob M. At 09:30 PM 8/7/00 -0400, you wrote:Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally given up on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them (especially on this list).Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect place to fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deep and where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is ideal there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I find stiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where short precise casts are needed (whereafast action rod like a Granger 7 ft really sing). I am presently thinking of building one of Charles Ritz's tapers.Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's or Perfectionist. Howwouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard Behalf Of Bob Nunley require cast to the line low me that same get Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_13152253==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 7 22:20:40 2000 e783KdG20271 Subject: Thebault Line Order --=====================_13741232==_.ALT Sorry to anyone who missed out, but I had to close the order to get it to the distributor. He faxed and said "I need it now!"If you missed out, let me know and I will keep you in line if someone backs out.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_13741232==_.ALT Sorry to anyone who missed out, but I had to close the order now!"If you missed out, let me know and I will keep you in line ifsomeone backs out.Best regards, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_13741232==_.ALT-- from ddeloach@pcisys.net Mon Aug 7 22:29:21 2000 e783TLG20537 Subject: Airflo for cane Which was the Airflo line that everyone was raving about last month? 10 yrgurantee against cracks? Delta taper? Thx from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Aug 8 01:40:34 2000 e786eXG23123 Mon, 07 Aug 2000 23:40:28 PDT Subject: Re: "I need help" e-mail From: "Bob Nunley" Subject: Re: "I need help" e-mailDate: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 21:18:12 -0500 Doug,I get all kinds of requests/letters, from "I love your rods, if only Icould afford one... If you ever have one you want to just get rid of..." to,"We need 25 rods for a fly fishing camp we are trying to start. Yourdonation is tax deductable, please let us know when we can expect the rods",but I haven't got the one you have... yet... Bob-----Original Message-----From: BambooRods@aol.com Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 6:57 PMSubject: "I need help" e-mail Just curious, has any of the other makers that have web sites received anemail from "Glen" wanting a rod because of a fathers illness and hisinability to buy a quality rod? Not wanting to be judgmental but...Doug Hall I will second Bob's message. Several requests a week from some organization or another. Hate to think someone would miss their boat payment to buy a cane rod! The stationery is usually pretty nice though. I donated a rod to one of our local organizations about 12-13 yrs ago and was shocked by a ranting indignant phone call from the 'fearless leader' about the crappy piece of junk I sent them. The rod had both tips broken in shipping(via members personal auto) and the dope thought I sent it to him that way,.Have gleefully burned all further rerquests from anyone.A.J.Thramer by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:03:12 +0800 Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:03:11 +0800 Subject: Re: "I need help" e-mail I did get one from "Glen" about 6-7 months back. I replied and asked forhis dad's home address so I could write to him direct but wouldn't ya knowit, no reply. Tony At 09:18 PM 8/7/00 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Doug,I get all kinds of requests/letters, from "I love your rods, if only Icould afford one... If you ever have one you want to just get rid of..." to,"We need 25 rods for a fly fishing camp we are trying to start. Yourdonation is tax deductable, please let us know when we can expect therods",but I haven't got the one you have... yet... Bob-----Original Message-----From: BambooRods@aol.com Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 6:57 PMSubject: "I need help" e-mail Just curious, has any of the other makers that have web sites receivedanemail from "Glen" wanting a rod because of a fathers illness and hisinability to buy a quality rod? Not wanting to be judgmental but...Doug Hall /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Aug 8 07:09:39 2000 e78C9cG26680 Tue, 8 Aug 2000 07:11:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Airflo for cane Yes, Delta is it. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Airflo for cane Which was the Airflo line that everyone was raving about last month? 10 yrgurantee against cracks? Delta taper? Thx from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Tue Aug 8 07:42:08 2000 e78Cg7G27247 Subject: Speaking of donations... Speaking of donations...The following two messages were sent to the flyfish@ mailing list by the man in charge of a fishing camp for the Boy Scouts. I've included them to show you what Brett Levin is doing. Brett could always use more rods, reels, lines, leaders, fly-tieing supplies, etc. - so if any of you have any old ones stuck in the back of the closet that you no longer want, here's a place that can put it to good use. Since the organization is the Boy Scouts of America, anything sent is tax deductible at fair market value. If you have something you're willing to donate, please contact Brett directly - his email address is below. Usual disclaimers - my only connection is that I was a Boy Scout leader for many years, but am no longer active.Claude-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: Off to Camp. I hope everyone has a great summer. I am off to camp for 8 weeks offishing& fun. See ya when I get back. Brett http://www.bsa-brmc.org/camp/fish%20camp/fishcamp.htm Fish Camp DirectorBlue Ridge Mountains CouncilBoy Scouts of America -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: Fish Camp Pics Everyone, I have posted some pictures of this summers Fish Camp on the web. Theaddresses are below. Thank you all for helping. http://www.FishCamp.eboard.comhttp://FishCamp.eboard.com Brett from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Aug 8 08:39:26 2000 e78DdQG28852 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: PC World Clock - off topic Sorry if anyone else had trouble, the link is www.pcmag.com/utilities andthen search for CLOCKRACK to become a little more worldly. Or, here'sanother link that is more direct... http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi- bin/texis/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=001AAA&b=pcm Sorry if people had trouble finding this utility... You do need WinZip aswell, if you don't have that, they probably do as well on the top link... Darrellwww.vfish.net from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Aug 8 10:01:23 2000 e78F1MG01916 Subject: Re: Airflo for cane On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Don DeLoach wrote: Which was the Airflo line that everyone was raving about last month? 10yrgurantee against cracks? Delta taper? Hi Don, It was the Delta. Guarantee is 5 years. There is info here:http://flysupplies.freeyellow.com/page1.htmlor a pic of the taper here:http://flysupplies.freeyellow.com/delta.gif Besides floating, the delta comes in a clear intermediate and 2 sinkrates as well (3.0 & 4.5 ips). Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from Canerods@aol.com Tue Aug 8 10:02:59 2000 e78F2wG02068 Subject: Re: Off Topic - World clock... There's a second time program that's also nice to have - AtomTime - it sets your computer's clock to the US NBS (Boulder,CO) official world time std via the internet. It's freeware and comes in a zip file of about 100K. I know AOL's shareware area has it, don't know where else to find it. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Tue Aug 8 10:04:25 2000 e78F4OG02184 Subject: Re: "I need help" e-mail rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 8/7/00 11:41:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: Dear Mr. AJ, My dog ate my flyrod, please send me a new one. I know you are a capitalism pig, but I deserve everything my little bleeding heart desires and therefore, you will take pity on me since I am a disabled victim of society - a public high school graduate. Please don't burn my request since my SUV Lexus is getting to be a year old and my welfare check just won't stretch like it used to .... Don Burns PS - Could you also pass on my request to a maker of very high quality flyreels too. My new rod should have a better reel than my old one. from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 8 11:55:50 2000 e78GtnG07390 Subject: test, please delete --=====================_23756961==_.ALT Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_23756961==_.ALT Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_23756961==_.ALT-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Aug 8 12:41:33 2000 e78HfWG08788 Tue, 8 Aug 2000 14:41:24 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yet but I dearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I built and is the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod. It even makes a poor caster likeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally given up on parabolics yet. Thereare just too many people raving about them (especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect place to fish one yet. I generallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deep and where long rods and longcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is ideal there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I find stiffer butt rods betterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where short precise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft really sing). I am presently thinking of building one of Charles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's or Perfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't really require castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple cast outside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be too embarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keeping the line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but then again, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw a tight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, I guess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike S talked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I also use this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in places where you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weeds and brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter of what you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I've become accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself out of trouble. Bob from dhaftel@att.com Tue Aug 8 14:17:21 2000 e78JHJG12232 PAA23990 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) Subject: PHY Driggs, a 4 or a 5wt.? All, The Rodmakers' site taper archive has the PHY Driggs listed as a 5 weight.In Frank Stetzer's taper archive it's a 4 weight. Can anyone shed somelight on this subject for me? TIA, Dennis from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 8 14:30:15 2000 e78JUEG12731 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs, a 4 or a 5wt.? --=====================_33015891==_.ALT I have used it with a WF 4 SA line and like it a lot. I also fish it with my silk line that is a 5 (almost a 6). It really shines with that. I think it is capable of several different weights depending on the fishing situation.When I made it, most listmembers said it was a true 4 wt.Bob At 02:16 PM 8/8/00 -0500, Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO wrote:All, The Rodmakers' site taper archive has the PHY Driggs listed as a 5 weight.In Frank Stetzer's taper archive it's a 4 weight. Can anyone shed somelight on this subject for me? TIA, Dennis Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_33015891==_.ALT I have used it with a WF 4 SA line and like it a lot. I also fish it withmy silk line that is a 5 (almost a 6). It really shines with that. Ithink it is capable of several different weights depending on the fishingsituation.When I made it, most listmembers said it was a true 4 wt.Bob At 02:16 PM 8/8/00 -0500, Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO wrote:All, The Rodmakers' site taper archive has the PHY Driggs listed as a 5weight. somelight on this subject for me? TIA, Dennis Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_33015891==_.ALT-- from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Aug 8 14:34:05 2000 e78JY5G12987 (204.186.33.72) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: PHY Driggs, a 4 or a 5wt.? marty wrote: Hi Dennis, According to the 1956 catalog the Driggs is a HDH (6) atclose range and a HEH (5) at distance. I would say it's a #5. Somepeople list the Pefectionist as a #4 but it really is a #5. By the wayI'm going to the Catskill gathering (God Willing). Marty All, The Rodmakers' site taper archive has the PHY Driggs listed as a 5weight.In Frank Stetzer's taper archive it's a 4 weight. Can anyone shed somelight on this subject for me? TIA, Dennis from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Aug 8 15:26:37 2000 e78KQaG14905 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson Friends,I have a favor to ask. A friend of mine is looking forDickerson spinning rod tapers and "original" (not extrapolated oraltered) 3 piece Dickerson fly rod tapers. I said I would ask the mostknowledgeable group of people I know, so here I am!I have heard that Dickerson made quite a few spinning rodtapers, once again something I didn't know!Any input would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Shawn from captvonbek@earthlink.net Tue Aug 8 15:33:22 2000 e78KXLG15315 NAA05680 Subject: Binder Kits I had read in the archives about Binder Kits that were being sold a whileback. There seemed to be a great deal of positive feedback regarding them.Are these still around anywhere? Yes, I know they can be made from scratch. :) Thanks very much indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Aug 8 15:58:45 2000 e78KwiG16535 13:58:31 PDT Subject: Re: PHY Driggs, a 4 or a 5wt.? dennis, i have used both on the same rod depending onwhere i was. also, i have made driggs' that leanedmore to the 5wt and some more to the 4wt. they hadthe same measurments so the difference was inmaterials. why don't you cast the rod with both linesand see what you like best? timothy --- "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote:All, The Rodmakers' site taper archive has the PHY Driggslisted as a 5 weight.In Frank Stetzer's taper archive it's a 4 weight. Can anyone shed somelight on this subject for me? TIA, Dennis ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Aug 8 16:37:07 2000 e78Lb6G17816 Subject: Re: Parabolic - a definition Organization: GOULD Hi Don,My understanding of a "parabolic rod" is one where the stress curve for thatparticular rod is in fact the shape of parabola.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Parabolic - a definition Guys/Gals, And anyone supply me with a definition of just what a parabolic rod is.Got some - think that's what they are but everyone seems to be in on thesecret but me. help, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Aug 8 17:06:30 2000 e78M6TG18838 15:06:29 PDT Subject: Re: Parabolic - a definition ray, you mean whether it "feels" like it or not? timothy--- Ray Gould wrote:Hi Don,My understanding of a "parabolic rod" is one wherethe stress curve for thatparticular rod is in fact the shape of parabola.Ray----- Original Message - ----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 3:10 PMSubject: Parabolic - a definition Guys/Gals, And anyone supply me with a definition of justwhat a parabolic rod is.Got some - think that's what they are but everyoneseems to be in on thesecret but me. help, Don http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Aug 8 17:10:47 2000 e78MAkG19017 Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:12:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Have any of you ever compared the PHY Driggs, Perfectionist, Martha Marie,and his Para #15 ? I've only his Midge for trout, and wonder which is thebest all around, of these others. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yet but I dearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I built and is the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod. It even makes a poor casterlikeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally given up on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them (especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect place to fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deep and where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is ideal there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I find stiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where short precise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft really sing). I am presently thinking of building one of Charles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's or Perfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't really require castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple cast outside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be too embarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keeping the line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but then again, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw a tight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, I guess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike S talked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I also use this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in places where you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weeds and brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter of what you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I've become accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself out of trouble. Bob from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Aug 8 17:28:31 2000 e78MSUG19485 15:28:30 PDT Subject: Re: Parabolic rods i would say any one of those four will do the job. timothy --- nobler wrote:Have any of you ever compared the PHY Driggs,Perfectionist, Martha Marie,and his Para #15 ? I've only his Midge for trout,and wonder which is thebest all around, of these others. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:37 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yet but Idearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I built andis the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod. Iteven makes a poor casterlikeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally givenup on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them(especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect placeto fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deepand where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is idealthere);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I findstiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where shortprecise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft reallysing). I am presently thinking of building one ofCharles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's orPerfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM DNHayashida@aol.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't reallyrequire castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple castoutside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be tooembarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keepingthe line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but thenagain, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw atight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, Iguess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike Stalked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I alsouse this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in placeswhere you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weedsand brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter ofwhat you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I'vebecome accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself outof trouble. Bob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Aug 8 17:32:53 2000 e78MWqG19663 Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:34:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Yes, I was sure of that ! Which could be called the best all around ? GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Parabolic rods i would say any one of those four will do the job. timothy --- nobler wrote:Have any of you ever compared the PHY Driggs,Perfectionist, Martha Marie,and his Para #15 ? I've only his Midge for trout,and wonder which is thebest all around, of these others. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:37 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yet but Idearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I built andis the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod. Iteven makes a poor casterlikeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally givenup on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them(especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect placeto fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deepand where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is idealthere);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I findstiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where shortprecise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft reallysing). I am presently thinking of building one ofCharles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's orPerfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM DNHayashida@aol.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't reallyrequire castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple castoutside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be tooembarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keepingthe line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but thenagain, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw atight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, Iguess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike Stalked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I alsouse this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in placeswhere you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weedsand brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter ofwhat you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I'vebecome accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself outof trouble. Bob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Aug 8 17:47:26 2000 e78MlKG20168 15:47:20 PDT Subject: Re: Parabolic rods it seems to me everyone that trys a driggs falls inlove with it especially and fish it more. personaly,i like the para 14. timothy --- nobler wrote:Yes, I was sure of that ! Which could be called thebest all around ? GMA----- Original Message ----- From: "timothy troester" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:28 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods i would say any one of those four will do the job. timothy --- nobler wrote:Have any of you ever compared the PHY Driggs,Perfectionist, Martha Marie,and his Para #15 ? I've only his Midge fortrout,and wonder which is thebest all around, of these others. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:37 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yetbut Idearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I builtandis the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod.Iteven makes a poor casterlikeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totallygivenup on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them(especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfectplaceto fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wadedeepand where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (Ifindstiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from thewater)3. or small freestone streams where shortprecise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft reallysing). I am presently thinking of building one ofCharles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg'sorPerfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM DNHayashida@aol.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't reallyrequire castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple castoutside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be tooembarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problemkeepingthe line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, butthenagain, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw atight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum,Iguess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that MikeStalked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. Ialsouse this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish inplaceswhere you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of theweedsand brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's amatter ofwhat you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's soI'vebecome accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myselfoutof trouble. Bob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Aug 8 21:05:49 2000 e7925nG23142 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs, a 4 or a 5wt.? Dennis: My early 70's PHY catalog (the lime green one) calls it a 4-5; guess you have your pick. R Tyree from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Aug 8 22:05:50 2000 e7935lG24190 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:05:29 +0800 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs, a 4 or a 5wt.? I think it's a #4 DT or #5 WF. I like mine that way anyhow. Tont At 02:16 PM 8/8/00 -0500, Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO wrote:All, The Rodmakers' site taper archive has the PHY Driggs listed as a 5 weight.In Frank Stetzer's taper archive it's a 4 weight. Can anyone shed somelight on this subject for me? TIA, Dennis /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Aug 8 22:08:21 2000 e7938IG24335 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:08:15 +0800 Subject: Re: Parabolic rods , , I'd think the Perfectionist. Tony At 05:15 PM 8/8/00 -0500, nobler wrote:Have any of you ever compared the PHY Driggs, Perfectionist, MarthaMarie,and his Para #15 ? I've only his Midge for trout, and wonder which is thebest all around, of these others. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:37 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yet but I dearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I built and is the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod. It even makes a poor casterlikeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally given up on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them (especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect place to fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deep and where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is ideal there);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I find stiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where short precise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft really sing). I am presently thinking of building one of Charles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's or Perfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't really require castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple cast outside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be too embarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keeping the line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but then again, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw a tight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, I guess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike S talked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I also use this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in places where you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weeds and brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter of what you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I've become accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself out of trouble. Bob /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from HalManas@aol.com Wed Aug 9 05:31:42 2000 e79AVgG00006 Subject: Midge or 6011 Gentlemen:I'm about to start on my second rod and I need some advice. This is for my own personal use and I fish mostly small brushy mountain streams in the East. I was planing to make a PHY Midge, but I saw the taper for a Dickerson 6011 and it seemed like another good choice. Does anyone have experience with both of these rods? Is the Dickerson a "faster" rod? Any suggestions?Thanks in advance, Hal from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Aug 9 06:04:56 2000 e79B4uG00425 (204.186.33.40) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Midge or 6011 Hi Hal, I made the Dickerson taper #6011. Although it's a nice taper ithas a more delicate medium action than the PHY midge. I like it with aDT-3 better than the #4. Given the choice between the two , I'd go withthe PHY Midge. It really doesn't get much better than that taper for asmall stream rod. Marty Gentlemen:I'm about to start on my second rod and I need some advice. This is formy own personal use and I fish mostly small brushy mountain streams intheEast. I was planing to make a PHY Midge, but I saw the taper for aDickerson6011 and it seemed like another good choice. Does anyone haveexperiencewith both of these rods? Is the Dickerson a "faster" rod? Anysuggestions?Thanks in advance, Hal from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Aug 9 06:09:26 2000 e79B9PG00607 (204.186.33.40) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Midge or 6011 Hal, The taper I made is the 6611 . I know nothing of the 6011. I wouldlove to have the taper though. Marty Gentlemen:I'm about to start on my second rod and I need some advice. This is formy own personal use and I fish mostly small brushy mountain streams intheEast. I was planing to make a PHY Midge, but I saw the taper for aDickerson6011 and it seemed like another good choice. Does anyone haveexperiencewith both of these rods? Is the Dickerson a "faster" rod? Anysuggestions?Thanks in advance, Hal from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Aug 9 07:41:09 2000 e79Cf8G01840 for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Paras again. Guys/Gals, Found the para subject interesting. Below is my definition of what a parais and an excerpt from a note that I recieved. Dick, My thanks for the research and definition. It would seem that mostbuilders have about the same idea. How I define parabolics is as follows: - Measure the working length [ working length is that area of a rodwithout swell butts ] of the rod from tip to butt. - Measure the tip OD across the flats - Measure the butt OD across the flats - Subtract the tip OD from the butt OD and divide by the working lengthin inches. - The resultant is the rod slope/inch of travel. Multiply by 5 as most ofus work in 5" increments - Plot on a graph the rod length on one axis and the slope on the otheraxis. - Mark a line on the graph showing the average overall slope of the rod.This will be typically somewhere between 0.011>0.016"/5" of rod travel - Measure the rod @ 5" increments to determine the OD - Subtract each of the measurements as you progress to towards the tip. - For example if the butt OD is 0.355 @ station 75" and next 5" increment@ 70" is 0.342- the resultant slope/5" of travel is 0.008" - Rods that have some or all of their butt OD's laying below the averageoverall slope will be parabolic. Rods where the difference betweenstations conforms to the average slope will be progressives. Anyway - that's how I best understand what parabolics are. Certainly, thegraph of the difference in OD's is parabolic. I was just wondering how others saw the issue. regards, Don At 01:56 AM 8/9/00 -0400, you wrote: Don: If you wish to put my reply up on the list feel free to do so. Someother are asking questions about the meaning also. It was a rather long reply and I replied directly but you be the judgeof its value to others. Dick Don: I am not an expert on rod actions and the term "parabolic" hadme baffled for the last five years. No one seemed to have a definitive definition that made sense. Quite by accident I found a book by Charles Ritz, "A FlyFisher's Life", in a shop while fishing in Montana. It was an English translation of his orignal book in French and was translated in 1959 In the book he described how he ran many tests on rods todetermine the action best suited (to him and his cronies) excerpt quoted from the book: "There are not dozens of types of action, but one only, whoserigidity varies according to the length of the rod, and it must work progressively from the point to the handle without the slightestweakness, however used. The action may be more or less powerful but thesuccessive curves must be identical. This is the action which I havecalled 'Parabolic', though the term is only a figure of speech and thecurve of the rod has absolutely nothing to do with a Parabola. This nameused commercially dates from 1937. Since then, we have been researchinginto the methods of increasing the suppleness still further withoutdiminishing the strength. After many failures we finally succeeded, in1949 in achieving a series of six different models, calledSuper-Parabolic P.P.P." In the "Garrison" book he makes mention of meeting in 1934 withRitz (and others). Ritz showed him a rod which had been broken in thespokes of a bike (so the story goes). Ritz had modified it by taking alittle off the top and a little off the bottom. It must have been verystiff. The folks there discussed the action and Garrison? said that ifyou took a plank of uniform thickness and stiffness and anchored it in awall and put a weight on the end its stress curve would be a true"parabola". ( of course the rod was not at all like a plank and ofcourse he was describing a cantilevered beam) The men present wanted togive the rod a name. "He said, that's it. this is the Parabolic rod." I think the person speaking in the quote was Jack Knight, who was alsopresent. This little story certainly fits the statement in Ritz,s book,at least it is nearly the right timing. In McClane's fishing Encyclopedia a parabolic action is "a typeof rod which is slower than the tip action due to the flexion beingdistributed throughout its entire length The butt of a parabolic rod has a low taper: the tip has two compoundtapers. In casting, the butt section will flex down as far as theanglers hand. Such a rod may be better suited to some purposes than thetip action or progressive action rod." Note that Ritz uses the word "progressively" but that is notreally what we now call a "progressive rod action" (McClane alsodescribes a progressive action and it is vastly different from aparabolic action!) (is it a translation problem?) Ritz also says that"successives curves must be identical" and I do not think he is referingto stress curves since he has diagrams in the book called "CurveDiagrams" which are nothing more than sketches of how the rod bends underdiffering loads. The Garrison statement mucked up the whole scene with hisstatement about the plank of uniform thickness (in fact it is only aparabola for a cantilefvered beam with a uniform load) and thedescription in his book makes it look like the rod they had cast in thecurve of a parabola or that the stress curve of the rod would be aparabola, neither of which is the case. Again, I am not an expert and my research has led me to believethe statement in the "Ritz" book, which makes the most sense. Now I guess you are really confused!!!! Dick http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from earsdws@duke.edu Wed Aug 9 08:00:02 2000 e79D01G02270 JAA29155; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories Subject: Tom Moran I had the distinct pleasure of casting a Tom Moran 8' 5 wt last night, arod a friend bought last month in the UK. It had a swelled butt and hadthe most beautiful wrapping/finish - I have never seen a more beautifulrod. What information (URL, Moran tapers, etc) can you folks provide?Thanks, dws. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Aug 9 08:12:24 2000 e79DCNG02806 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:12:15 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Midge or 6011 Hal,I don't seem to have the 6011 taper either. Is it a typo?? If it is a realtaper I would love to have it.Shawn HalManas@aol.com wrote: Gentlemen:I'm about to start on my second rod and I need some advice. This is formy own personal use and I fish mostly small brushy mountain streams intheEast. I was planing to make a PHY Midge, but I saw the taper for aDickerson6011 and it seemed like another good choice. Does anyone haveexperiencewith both of these rods? Is the Dickerson a "faster" rod? Anysuggestions?Thanks in advance, Hal from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Aug 9 08:46:59 2000 e79DkwG04372 Subject: Re: Midge or 6011 There is a 6ft 4wt taper by listmember AJ Thramer in the archives at http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9805.406 that is really nice. Not that there is anything wrong with a Midge,of course. The Thramer is a little faster, I think.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 HalManas@aol.com wrote: Gentlemen:I'm about to start on my second rod and I need some advice. This is for my own personal use and I fish mostly small brushy mountain streams inthe East. I was planing to make a PHY Midge, but I saw the taper for aDickerson 6011 and it seemed like another good choice. Does anyone haveexperience with both of these rods? Is the Dickerson a "faster" rod? Anysuggestions?Thanks in advance, Hal from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Aug 9 09:08:43 2000 e79E8hG06068 Subject: Waynes Book is shipping This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C001EA.6B30F700 Hi, I just recieved a confirmation from Amazon.com that the copy of ="Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods" I've had on order has shipped. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C001EA.6B30F700 Hi, I just recieved a confirmation from = the copy of "Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods" I've had on = shipped. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C001EA.6B30F700-- from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Aug 9 10:33:56 2000 e79FXtG10104 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:33:54 +0200 Subject: Sv: Tom Moran e79FXuG10105 www.tommoran.com/ regards,Carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tom Moran I had the distinct pleasure of casting a Tom Moran 8' 5 wt last night, arod a friend bought last month in the UK. It had a swelled butt and hadthe most beautiful wrapping/finish - I have never seen a more beautifulrod. What information (URL, Moran tapers, etc) can you folks provide?Thanks, dws. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Aug 9 11:18:15 2000 e79GIEG11995 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:18:11 +0200 "rod 'akers" Subject: Sv: Parabolic rods e79GIFG11996 The best all around rod is, IMHO, the Para 15.And if You dont want a rod with two different tips,Waynes "The Force" - a VERY close relativeof the Para 15. No rod will do everything perfect, but the Para 15/ForceI've used for but big streamers and #18 dry's - and all inbetween. It has never let me down. I must say, though,it does not have the finesse of the Perfectionist. But itwill reach out in a relaxed manner, where one has touse more power with the Perfectionist. And so it goes,on and on and on and..... just my 2 cents, regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Parabolic rods Yes, I was sure of that ! Which could be called the best all around ? GMA----- Original Message ----- From: "timothy troester" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:28 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods i would say any one of those four will do the job. timothy --- nobler wrote:Have any of you ever compared the PHY Driggs,Perfectionist, Martha Marie,and his Para #15 ? I've only his Midge for trout,and wonder which is thebest all around, of these others. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:37 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yet but Idearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I built andis the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod. Iteven makes a poor casterlikeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally givenup on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them(especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect placeto fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deepand where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is idealthere);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I findstiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where shortprecise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft reallysing). I am presently thinking of building one ofCharles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's orPerfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM DNHayashida@aol.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't reallyrequire castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple castoutside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be tooembarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keepingthe line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but thenagain, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw atight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, Iguess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike Stalked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I alsouse this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in placeswhere you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weedsand brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter ofwhat you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I'vebecome accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself outof trouble. Bob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from cathcreek@hotmail.com Wed Aug 9 14:07:59 2000 e79J7wG17714 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:07:53 -0700 Wed, 09 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Chinese bamboo rods FILETIME=[1E4674B0:01C00235] I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bamboo fly rods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Aug 9 14:39:24 2000 e79JdKG19424 12:54:26 PDT Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods i thought they were wanting to sell bamboo. icouldn't open their web site could you? timothy --- Robert Clarke wrote:I got an email from a company in China wanting helpselling their bamboo fly rods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 9 14:45:49 2000 e79JjmG19743 Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Robert,Yeah, I DID! I didn't realize it didn't come through thelistserver.....Now it seems kinda suspicious. I hardly get ANY spam, so Iwonder how this arose. Any ideas? Anybody else get it? Could we be being targeted by being on the list without the list actuallybeing used for it? Mike-the-list-guy- interested?Art At 07:07 PM 08/09/2000 GMT, Robert Clarke wrote:I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bamboo fly rods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed Aug 9 14:47:09 2000 e79Jl8G19892 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Robert...Yep, Started getting them about 6 months ago. They even offered in oneof the early emails to send me one of their rods to try out. I declined.Have enough irons in the fire. Also, if you haven't yet, you'll get aninvitation to a flyfishing and tackle show in Beijing, China. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Chinese bamboo rods I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bambooflyrods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed Aug 9 14:48:16 2000 e79JmFG20026 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods I think they are browsing web sites for Cane Rods in the USA. Does everyonewho got emails from them have a web site? Bob-----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Robert,Yeah, I DID! I didn't realize it didn't come through thelistserver.....Now it seems kinda suspicious. I hardly get ANY spam, so Iwonder how this arose. Any ideas? Anybody else get it?Could we be being targeted by being on the list without the list actuallybeing used for it?Mike-the-list-guy- interested?Art At 07:07 PM 08/09/2000 GMT, Robert Clarke wrote:I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bambooflyrods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com from cathcreek@hotmail.com Wed Aug 9 15:05:41 2000 e79K5fG20941 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:05:36 -0700 Wed, 09 Aug 2000 GMT RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods FILETIME=[2E605660:01C0023D] Bob, et al. They sent me the email through my work email, which got me wondering. I have a web site, but I list my hotmail account on the website. Thought it was a little odd. Tim, I did get their website to open by changing the semicolon to a colon in the address. Not sure I can swing the Beijing trip, but maybe if I write it off on my taxes :) Sounds like they are fishing (sorry) for something. Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: "Bob Nunley" Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rodsDate: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:42:32 -0500 I think they are browsing web sites for Cane Rods in the USA. Does everyonewho got emails from them have a web site? Bob-----Original Message-----From: Art Port RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:40 PMSubject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Robert,Yeah, I DID! I didn't realize it didn't come through thelistserver.....Now it seems kinda suspicious. I hardly get ANY spam, so Iwonder how this arose. Any ideas? Anybody else get it?Could we be being targeted by being on the list without the list actuallybeing used for it?Mike-the-list-guy- interested?Art At 07:07 PM 08/09/2000 GMT, Robert Clarke wrote:I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bambooflyrods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 9 15:44:49 2000 e79KimG22617 Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods NO! At 02:42 PM 08/09/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:I think they are browsing web sites for Cane Rods in the USA. Doeseveryonewho got emails from them have a web site? Bob-----Original Message-----From: Art Port RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:40 PMSubject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Robert,Yeah, I DID! I didn't realize it didn't come through thelistserver.....Now it seems kinda suspicious. I hardly get ANY spam, so Iwonder how this arose. Any ideas? Anybody else get it?Could we be being targeted by being on the list without the list actuallybeing used for it?Mike-the-list-guy- interested?Art At 07:07 PM 08/09/2000 GMT, Robert Clarke wrote:I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bambooflyrods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Aug 9 15:57:19 2000 e79KvJG23109 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Paras again. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_kuZ+dZyFAMHdtsPiCEZmEA) Continuing on the subject of paras, I have another question: I honestly amnot trying to disparage these rods but if paras throw such a long line soeffortlessly, then why do tournament casters always use very stiff, fastaction rods for both distance and accuracy? I'm really trying to p*ss anyone off with this question, just curious. Richard --Boundary_(ID_kuZ+dZyFAMHdtsPiCEZmEA) Continuing on the subject of paras, I have = question: I honestly am not trying to disparage these rods but if paras = such a long line so effortlessly, then why do tournament casters always = stiff, fast action rods for both distance and =accuracy? curious. Richard --Boundary_(ID_kuZ+dZyFAMHdtsPiCEZmEA)-- from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Wed Aug 9 16:14:03 2000 e79LE2G23873 Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Yes, I got the message also. I'm sure what has happen is that either, this person subscribed to thelist; did a LIST REVIEW for emails of all the subscribers; thenunsubscribed, or, some listmember gave him the list. I can't think of anyother way we all could have been targeted. The list is already set up so that only subscribers can do a REVIEW of thelist, so there's really no way to stop this sort of thing. If someonechooses to subscribe just to get a list of members, there's just not muchto stop him. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 9 16:19:54 2000 e79LJrG24217 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:21:28 -0500 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Parabolic rods I have had suspicions in this direction. Thanks,GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: Parabolic rods The best all around rod is, IMHO, the Para 15.And if You dont want a rod with two different tips,Waynes "The Force" - a VERY close relativeof the Para 15. No rod will do everything perfect, but the Para 15/ForceI've used for but big streamers and #18 dry's - and all inbetween. It has never let me down. I must say, though,it does not have the finesse of the Perfectionist. But itwill reach out in a relaxed manner, where one has touse more power with the Perfectionist. And so it goes,on and on and on and..... just my 2 cents, regards,carsten ----- Original Message -----From: nobler Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 12:37 AMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Yes, I was sure of that ! Which could be called the best all around ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "timothy troester" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:28 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods i would say any one of those four will do the job.timothy --- nobler wrote:Have any of you ever compared the PHY Driggs,Perfectionist, Martha Marie,and his Para #15 ? I've only his Midge for trout,and wonder which is thebest all around, of these others. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:37 PMSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard,I haven't finished a Driggs yet but Idearly love thePerfectionist. It was the first taper I built andis the only rod I havemanaged to keep! It is a great all round rod. Iteven makes a poor casterlikeme look good ;^) Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: Bob, Thanks for your reply. I haven't totally givenup on parabolics yet.Thereare just too many people raving about them(especially on this list). Isuspect I just haven't found the perfect placeto fish one yet. Igenerallyfish:1. huge fast rivers where I need to wade deepand where long rods andlongcasts are required (in fact a spey rod is idealthere);2. northern lakes with full sinking line (I findstiffer butt rodsbetterat lifting full sinking lines from the water)3. or small freestone streams where shortprecise casts are needed(where afast action rod like a Granger 7 ft reallysing). I am presently thinking of building one ofCharles Ritz's tapers. Nowthere's a rod that will be REALLY parabolic! I'm also torn between building a PHY Drigg's orPerfectionist. How wouldthe list vote on a choice between these two? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Bob NunleySent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:54 PM DNHayashida@aol.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Parabolic rods Richard.Most of the waters I fish don't reallyrequire castoutside the 25 to 45foot range. Never tried a steeple castoutside of thatrange... don't knowthat I want too! LOL Would be tooembarrassed trying tountangle myself infront of observers.Actually, I don't have any problem keepingthe line lowto the waterwithout getting it into the water, but thenagain, my tapersaren't "pure"parabolic. They are pretty quick throw atight loop andmoderately goodline speed. That line speed and momentum, Iguess, keeps meout of thewater pretty well. The 6' 4 wt that Mike Stalked about thatI had at theFFF Clave is great for float fishing. I alsouse this samerod (well, onejust like it) to sneak up on fish in placeswhere you have tocrawl in,shoot a high backcast to stay out of the weedsand brush, yetlay a linegently on the water. I guess it's a matter ofwhat you getused to and I'mused to that second lever in para's so I'vebecome accustomedto castingthem low to the water and keeping myself outof trouble. Bob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 9 16:44:45 2000 e79LiiG25166 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:46:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods You guys who are "Pro's" are the target I guess, as I've received nothing . GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Robert,Yeah, I DID! I didn't realize it didn't come through thelistserver.....Now it seems kinda suspicious. I hardly get ANY spam, so Iwonder how this arose. Any ideas? Anybody else get it?Could we be being targeted by being on the list without the list actuallybeing used for it?Mike-the-list-guy- interested?Art At 07:07 PM 08/09/2000 GMT, Robert Clarke wrote:I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bambooflyrods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 9 16:48:47 2000 e79LmkG25400 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:50:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Paras again. Just because they are stiff, i.e. heavy actioned, doesn't mean they don'tuse allot of butt power, when really loaded. However, tournament work is fardifferent from fishing deliveries, in what I've seen. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Paras again. Continuing on the subject of paras, I have another question: I honestly amnot trying to disparage these rods but if paras throw such a long line soeffortlessly, then why do tournament casters always use very stiff, fastaction rods for both distance and accuracy? I'm really trying to p*ss anyone off with this question, just curious. Richard from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 9 16:52:14 2000 e79LqDG25567 Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Hey! I ain't no pro! As a waitress I had one time said when referred to as "Madam". "I'm noMadam, I'm just one a th' goils!"8-) !Art At 04:49 PM 08/09/2000 -0500, nobler wrote:You guys who are "Pro's" are the target I guess, as I've received nothing . GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:48 PMSubject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Robert,Yeah, I DID! I didn't realize it didn't come through thelistserver.....Now it seems kinda suspicious. I hardly get ANY spam, so Iwonder how this arose. Any ideas? Anybody else get it?Could we be being targeted by being on the list without the list actuallybeing used for it?Mike-the-list-guy- interested?Art At 07:07 PM 08/09/2000 GMT, Robert Clarke wrote:I got an email from a company in China wanting help selling their bambooflyrods. Anyone else get a similar email recently? Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Aug 9 16:53:56 2000 e79LruG25708 14:53:55 PDT Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods there is no damage done as far as i can see. timothy --- Mike Biondo wrote:Yes, I got the message also. I'm sure what has happen is that either, this personsubscribed to thelist; did a LIST REVIEW for emails of all thesubscribers; thenunsubscribed, or, some listmember gave him the list.I can't think of anyother way we all could have been targeted. The list is already set up so that only subscriberscan do a REVIEW of thelist, so there's really no way to stop this sort ofthing. If someonechooses to subscribe just to get a list of members,there's just not muchto stop him. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 9 17:00:33 2000 e79M0XG26040 Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:02:09 -0500 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods Did they have any photos of their rods ? It would be interesting to see thequality, if anyone can forward the site. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chinese bamboo rods there is no damage done as far as i can see. timothy --- Mike Biondo wrote:Yes, I got the message also. I'm sure what has happen is that either, this personsubscribed to thelist; did a LIST REVIEW for emails of all thesubscribers; thenunsubscribed, or, some listmember gave him the list.I can't think of anyother way we all could have been targeted. The list is already set up so that only subscriberscan do a REVIEW of thelist, so there's really no way to stop this sort ofthing. If someonechooses to subscribe just to get a list of members,there's just not muchto stop him. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Aug 9 17:02:05 2000 e79M24G26176 15:17:14 PDT Subject: RE: Paras again. richard, for one thing tournament casters are notfishing they are casting, target shooting. a relatedbut different sport. timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:Continuing on the subject of paras, I have anotherquestion: I honestly amnot trying to disparage these rods but if parasthrow such a long line soeffortlessly, then why do tournament casters alwaysuse very stiff, fastaction rods for both distance and accuracy? I'm really trying to p*ss anyone off with thisquestion, just curious. Richard ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.http://invites.yahoo.com/ from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Aug 9 17:11:33 2000 e79MBXG26575 +0000 Subject: Re: Dawn Holbrook rod, followup All, Here's an update if anyone's interested... I got a chance to fish myHolbrook rod last weekend and found it to have enough power to throwthose big, wind resistant deer hair bass poppers and divers. The fishweren't all that cooperative, but I did manage to land a small (read:tiny) bass. The rod had lots of backbone and I'd recommend it as adecent bass/salmon rod. I'm using a Wulff TT 8 on it. I think a nineis a little too heavy. OK. Enough rambling. Dennis Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO wrote: In case anyone is interested, I cast my "rendition" of a Holbrook No. 310, 9 weight yesterday evening andwe (the rod and I) did much better with the Wulff TT8 than two ScientificAnglers 9 weight WF lines. I have a Scientific Anglers Striper line that Ithought was the fastest shooting line I had evercast. I also have a Scientific Anglers "top of the line (XPS or somethinglike that, cost a small fortune)" Bass Bug Taper Floating line that I triedon the rod. They both seemed a bit too slow (could be read as "too heavy") out of the tip I couldn't get them to perform. Almost every cast producedatailing loop and the line just wouldn't shoot. That Wulff line, however, is really something. The Wulff made both SAlineslook "sticky". Neither of those lines would shoot nearly as well as theWulff. In other words, color me impressed! Are all the Wulff lines thatslick? If so, I think I'm a convert. OR... Is it that I overlined the rod with the SA lines and have found theright weight with the Wulff line? Does anyone have any experience with Holbrook tapers? Are they typicallysoft? I wouldn't call it a noodle, but the rod is definitely slow. Don'ttake that as a negative assessment though. I like the action on the rod. Iguess I just want to see if I screwed up and how badly. :-) Thanks, Dennis from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Aug 9 17:18:41 2000 e79MIeG26811 Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:18:38 +0200 Subject: Sv: Paras again. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C00260.B0681120 Richard cane rods, but converted to building carbon - he even makesmandrils and rolls his own blanks. He wants rods that will throw a long line . What he doesis in principle using the butt from a #6 rod and putting on a tip from a # 7 or #8. Thus he converts a Sage to a parabolic action,