it will heal faster than the rest of me! *S* me walking down a road about 3 miles from where we went in (keep in mind = were only fishing about a quarter mile from the cars) and took me back = that, and I told him I didn't think my body could take any more fishing = a #6 hook, but that was what the little trouties wanted, so we gave it = them. re-classify flyfishing as a contact sport, cause I look worse than I = my Football days! night to be a GREAT fishing adventure! 5'6" 2pc 4wt cane... she never wavered, even when we were boulder = in the ravine! Later,Bruiser Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C00AAC.C6B3D1E0-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Aug 20 14:12:30 2000 e7KJCTG19789 Subject: Re: fishing cane BobGreat story, had me on the floor laughing...maybe you should stay in bed and heal up for a couple of days. Get well soon Joe from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Aug 20 14:53:55 2000 e7KJrtG20441 12:53:53 PDT Subject: Re: fishing cane bob, you should submit this in the short storycompetition rod that rod & reel has each spring. timothy --- Bob Nunley wrote:Guys,Went night fishing on the Lower Mountain Forklast night and just had to report to the list...I had been fishing in the afternoon on the LMFwith not much luck... one brown about 12 inches wasall the day fishing produced. Went to Beavers BendFly Shop (owned by Sid... If you fish the river, youhave to go meet Sid). I met a guy at Sids Fly Shopnamed Sterling. He is a "Mountain Fork Expert" andinvited me to fish the Hexagenia Hatch in the deeppart of the river, except that he had a kick boat where I could hike in and fish it from the shallows.I was game for it... and, let me tell ya, I had ablast! We got into rainbows and browns until it wastoo dark to see, then after that, just kept casting,and when we heard something rise in the vicinity ofour flies, just set the hook. I lost count, butlanded well in excess of 20 trout (stopped countingat 14), in the 12 to 18" range, mostly rainbows, butdid catch one 16" brown trout.Now... I have fallen in many rivers, but lastnight was the topper of all my falling adventures...I fell fell twice... in the same spot... off thesame damn rock!!! First fall just put me up to myneck in 63 degree water. Yep, it was cold, and Iwas wet wading to begin with. On the second fall, Ihonestly thought that I had broken my leg, which isblack as your hat today, but while sitting theremoaning, a Bow rose about 10 feet from me, and frommy non-ambulatory position in the river, I cast tohim and caught him. Even landed him withoutremoving my butt and my aching leg from the rock onwhich I landed. In any case, the leg was notbroken, although I am sporting a pretty good limptoday! :^)Apparently, during one of my falls, I lost myflashlight , so I had to hike in the dark on amoonless night, what should have been about aquarter of a mile through flat woods back to thecar. Keep in mind, no moon, and the tree canopy wasso thick you couldn't see the stars... Did you evernotice how you can't remember in the dark if themoss grows on the north side or the south side ofthe tree??? :^o Well, I think I covered somewhereclose to 6 miles. My legs look like I've beentortured by two angry Tom Cats. Like I said, I waswet wading, and had on my wading boots and nylonColumbia shorts... well now they look like nylondubbing, but still, not much protection for thelegs. I hit every briar patch in the woods, andprobably some of them twice (yes, I WAS lost forawhile, but geez, there wasn't anyone to askdirections from! I tried talking to the Owls, butall they would say is WHO, WHO and I really wantedto know WHERE? WHERE?). I am now on first namebases with ever low hanging limb in SoutheastOklahoma!Also, on my "altered" route back to the car, Ifell down a ravine. Geez, the ground looked flat inthe dark, and besides, there were no ravines the wayI went in, and I really think someone dug thatsucker while I was on the river! I did save therod, but didn't do too good of a job of saving myback, ribs and butt... all are extremely sore, asare my feet, knees and neck! The abrasion over theright eye is no big deal... it will heal faster thanthe rest of me! *S*In any case, after that fiasco, Sterling finallyfound me walking down a road about 3 miles fromwhere we went in (keep in mind that we were onlyfishing about a quarter mile from the cars) and tookme back to the Blue Bomb. He went on to the PowerHouse to fish for Walleye on Fly after that, and Itold him I didn't think my body could take any morefishing for the day, and I headed home. The Hex's were huge! Extended body, deer hair,on a #6 hook, but that was what the little troutieswanted, so we gave it to them.All in all, a pretty damn good night of fishing!Matter of fact, an excellent night. However, Itruly think we need to re-classify flyfishing as acontact sport, cause I look worse than I used to inmy Football days!Now... Anyone want to go fishing with me! LOL I seem to have problems finding a fishing partnerthat can handle "Flyfishing with Bob's Rules" :^) Maybe, becaue I consider last night to be a GREATfishing adventure!Oh, one last note... all of the fish were caughton a 5'6" 2pc 4wt cane... she never wavered, evenwhen we were boulder fishing in the ravine! Later,Bruiser Bob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Aug 20 15:25:34 2000 e7KKPYG21131 Subject: Re: fishing cane Or Bob you could send a copy of it to Clark Davis. He has a bambooflyrod website and he's always looking for stories about fishing cane.He website is at http://www.fishcane.com/bamboohome.htmlI'm sure he would love to get a copy of this, just the way its written. -Bill Walters timothy troester wrote: bob, you should submit this in the short storycompetition rod that rod & reel has each spring.timothy --- Bob Nunley wrote:Guys,Went night fishing on the Lower Mountain Forklast night and just had to report to the list...I had been fishing in the afternoon on the LMFwith not much luck... one brown about 12 inches wasall the day fishing produced. Went to Beavers BendFly Shop (owned by Sid... If you fish the river, youhave to go meet Sid). I met a guy at Sids Fly Shopnamed Sterling. He is a "Mountain Fork Expert" andinvited me to fish the Hexagenia Hatch in the deeppart of the river, except that he had a kick boat where I could hike in and fish it from the shallows.I was game for it... and, let me tell ya, I had ablast! We got into rainbows and browns until it wastoo dark to see, then after that, just kept casting,and when we heard something rise in the vicinity ofour flies, just set the hook. I lost count, butlanded well in excess of 20 trout (stopped countingat 14), in the 12 to 18" range, mostly rainbows, butdid catch one 16" brown trout.Now... I have fallen in many rivers, but lastnight was the topper of all my falling adventures...I fell fell twice... in the same spot... off thesame damn rock!!! First fall just put me up to myneck in 63 degree water. Yep, it was cold, and Iwas wet wading to begin with. On the second fall, Ihonestly thought that I had broken my leg, which isblack as your hat today, but while sitting theremoaning, a Bow rose about 10 feet from me, and frommy non-ambulatory position in the river, I cast tohim and caught him. Even landed him withoutremoving my butt and my aching leg from the rock onwhich I landed. In any case, the leg was notbroken, although I am sporting a pretty good limptoday! :^)Apparently, during one of my falls, I lost myflashlight , so I had to hike in the dark on amoonless night, what should have been about aquarter of a mile through flat woods back to thecar. Keep in mind, no moon, and the tree canopy wasso thick you couldn't see the stars... Did you evernotice how you can't remember in the dark if themoss grows on the north side or the south side ofthe tree??? :^o Well, I think I covered somewhereclose to 6 miles. My legs look like I've beentortured by two angry Tom Cats. Like I said, I waswet wading, and had on my wading boots and nylonColumbia shorts... well now they look like nylondubbing, but still, not much protection for thelegs. I hit every briar patch in the woods, andprobably some of them twice (yes, I WAS lost forawhile, but geez, there wasn't anyone to askdirections from! I tried talking to the Owls, butall they would say is WHO, WHO and I really wantedto know WHERE? WHERE?). I am now on first namebases with ever low hanging limb in SoutheastOklahoma!Also, on my "altered" route back to the car, Ifell down a ravine. Geez, the ground looked flat inthe dark, and besides, there were no ravines the wayI went in, and I really think someone dug thatsucker while I was on the river! I did save therod, but didn't do too good of a job of saving myback, ribs and butt... all are extremely sore, asare my feet, knees and neck! The abrasion over theright eye is no big deal... it will heal faster thanthe rest of me! *S*In any case, after that fiasco, Sterling finallyfound me walking down a road about 3 miles fromwhere we went in (keep in mind that we were onlyfishing about a quarter mile from the cars) and tookme back to the Blue Bomb. He went on to the PowerHouse to fish for Walleye on Fly after that, and Itold him I didn't think my body could take any morefishing for the day, and I headed home.The Hex's were huge! Extended body, deer hair,on a #6 hook, but that was what the little troutieswanted, so we gave it to them.All in all, a pretty damn good night of fishing!Matter of fact, an excellent night. However, Itruly think we need to re-classify flyfishing as acontact sport, cause I look worse than I used to inmy Football days!Now... Anyone want to go fishing with me! LOLI seem to have problems finding a fishing partnerthat can handle "Flyfishing with Bob's Rules" :^)Maybe, becaue I consider last night to be a GREATfishing adventure!Oh, one last note... all of the fish were caughton a 5'6" 2pc 4wt cane... she never wavered, evenwhen we were boulder fishing in the ravine! Later,Bruiser Bob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Aug 20 15:29:54 2000 e7KKTrG21443 13:36:40 PDT Subject: friends all, while at lunch today i spoke of a friend thatdid such_and-such and was asked who the friend was. icould not remember the name and realised i wasrefering to something that someone wrote on the rodmakers list. to anyone who might be intrested iconsider you all friends and comrades. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from brewer@teleport.com Sun Aug 20 15:52:02 2000 e7KKq1G23219 0000 (216.26.32.93) Subject: "Gel" Pen Research I have tried out two more "gel" pens for signing bamboo. Here's the scoop. Tested: Zebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - Dark RedZebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - Dark GreenZebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - GraySakura GellRoll XPGB - Black Previously tested: Pilot P-700 Fine 0.7 - Black All were purchased for less than $2 each from the University of Oregonbookstore. I think they are available at most Office Depot-type stores aswell. All of the pens delivered clear smooth lines on an unfinished bamboo blank.I somewhat prefer the Zebra pens, but was unable to find them with blackink. All pens tested worked well. If you haven't tried one of these newpens, I suggest that you give them a try. -Randy from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Aug 20 16:55:34 2000 e7KLtYG24464 Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:55:30 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Ultra light lines After I wrote: I fished 2 days last week with a 7'7" 2 weight bamboo, and found it to be ajoy. Terry wrote: OKAY Harry,Where's the taper? Terry, It's basically the Sir D, extended to 7'6", and dropped to a 2 weight. Then cut it off wrong by a half inch on each section!! Harry from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Aug 20 17:02:56 2000 e7KM2uG24742 Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:02:50 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: fishing cane --------------D88ED8EC311982C896D821EA Bruiser,Great story. I've got a cheap-o float tube that I will GIVE younext time I see you. You'll have to buy your own fins. Before youwrite stories like this, you oughta warn us. I've spent the last 20minutes cleaning coffee out of my laptop!Harry Oh yeah -- think there will still be any Hex's around in a dayor two? I could make a quick run over that way?? Bob Nunley wrote: Guys, Went night fishing on the Lower Mountain Fork last night andjust had to report to the list... --------------D88ED8EC311982C896D821EA Bruiser, I've spent the last 20 minutes cleaning coffee out of my laptop! over that way??Bob Nunley wrote: fishing on the Lower Mountain Fork last night and just had to report tothe list... --------------D88ED8EC311982C896D821EA-- from anglport@con2.com Sun Aug 20 18:55:31 2000 e7KNtUG26520 Subject: Re: fishing cane Bob, As I read in John Gierach, citing "Koke" Winter as source: "I don't go in Art At 01:44 PM 08/20/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Guys, Went night fishing on the Lower Mountain Fork last night andjust had to report to the list... "" "" brown trout. Inany case, the leg was not broken, although I am sporting a pretty goodlimp today! :^) I am now on first name bases with ever lowhanging limb in Southeast Oklahoma! "" The abrasion over the righteye is no big deal... it will heal faster than the rest of me! *S* Extended body, deer hair, on a #6 hook, but that was what the littletrouties wanted, so we gave it to them. However, I truly think weneed to re-classify flyfishing as a contact sport, cause I look worse thanI used to in my Football days! "" Maybe, becaue I consider last night to be a GREAT fishing adventure! " 2pc 4wt cane... she neverwavered, even when we were boulder fishing in the ravine! Later, BruiserBob from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Aug 20 19:21:51 2000 e7L0LoG26990 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: Fluted hollow built Would anyone know whether Winston's fluted hollow built rods are flutedthroughout a sod section (except for the ferrules and tip) or do they havedams every few inches. If the latter, how far apart are the dams? Thanks in advance, Richard from oakmere@carol.net Sun Aug 20 20:24:28 2000 e7L1ORG27931 Subject: RE: Back to List Hi Folks: Well I am back on the list after my summer in Pennsylvania. Traveled toMontana in early July for some fishing, hit the Catskills in early August the main stem were warm and at low flows so they did not fish as well asnormal), and fished several PA streams. Got a chance to go to Russ GoodingsGoldenwitch place - outstanding facility and impressive - to pick up somebamboo. Hope to get going with this effort this coming winter. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Sun Aug 20 20:59:12 2000 e7L1xAG28685 Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:56:21 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: fishing cane Bob, Bob, Bob, The first thing I do when I get to work every morning and fire up this boxof bolts is check Rodmakers for the latest goss. Now the last thing I liketo do is gain pleasure from the misfortunes of another, but honestly, Ihaven't laughed that hard since Adam was in short pants. Thanks for curingthis weeks dose of Monday-itis. I'll just finish cleaning up the mess now Mike from bh887@lafn.org Sun Aug 20 21:21:11 2000 e7L2LAG29191 Subject: Re: fishing cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C00ADB.D73898A0 Hey Bob! Now I know why they call it "cane"! Lee Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 11:44 AMSubject: fishing cane Guys,Went night fishing on the Lower Mountain Fork last night and just =had to report to the list...I had been fishing in the afternoon on the LMF with not much =luck... one brown about 12 inches was all the day fishing produced. =Went to Beavers Bend Fly Shop (owned by Sid... If you fish the river, =you have to go meet Sid). I met a guy at Sids Fly Shop named Sterling. =He is a "Mountain Fork Expert" and invited me to fish the Hexagenia =Hatch in the deep part of the river, except that he had a kick boat for =the deep water, and I did not, but knew a place where I could hike in =and fish it from the shallows. I was game for it... and, let me tell =ya, I had a blast! We got into rainbows and browns until it was too =dark to see, then after that, just kept casting, and when we heard =something rise in the vicinity of our flies, just set the hook. I lost =count, but landed well in excess of 20 trout (stopped counting at 14), =in the 12 to 18" range, mostly rainbows, but did catch one 16" brown = Now... I have fallen in many rivers, but last night was the topper =of all my falling adventures... I fell fell twice... in the same =spot... off the same damn rock!!! First fall just put me up to my neck =in 63 degree water. Yep, it was cold, and I was wet wading to begin =with. On the second fall, I honestly thought that I had broken my leg, =which is black as your hat today, but while sitting there moaning, a Bow =rose about 10 feet from me, and from my non-ambulatory position in the =river, I cast to him and caught him. Even landed him without removing =my butt and my aching leg from the rock on which I landed. In any case, =the leg was not broken, although I am sporting a pretty good limp today! =:^)Apparently, during one of my falls, I lost my flashlight , so I =had to hike in the dark on a moonless night, what should have been about =a quarter of a mile through flat woods back to the car. Keep in mind, =no moon, and the tree canopy was so thick you couldn't see the stars... =Did you ever notice how you can't remember in the dark if the moss grows =on the north side or the south side of the tree??? :^o Well, I think I =covered somewhere close to 6 miles. My legs look like I've been =tortured by two angry Tom Cats. Like I said, I was wet wading, and had =on my wading boots and nylon Columbia shorts... well now they look like =nylon dubbing, but still, not much protection for the legs. I hit every =briar patch in the woods, and probably some of them twice (yes, I WAS =lost for awhile, but geez, there wasn't anyone to ask directions from! I =tried talking to the Owls, but all they would say is WHO, WHO and I =really wanted to know WHERE? WHERE?). I am now on first name bases with=ever low hanging limb in Southeast Oklahoma!Also, on my "altered" route back to the car, I fell down a ravine. =Geez, the ground looked flat in the dark, and besides, there were no =ravines the way I went in, and I really think someone dug that sucker =while I was on the river! I did save the rod, but didn't do too good of =a job of saving my back, ribs and butt... all are extremely sore, as are =my feet, knees and neck! The abrasion over the right eye is no big =deal... it will heal faster than the rest of me! *S*In any case, after that fiasco, Sterling finally found me walking =down a road about 3 miles from where we went in (keep in mind that we =were only fishing about a quarter mile from the cars) and took me back =to the Blue Bomb. He went on to the Power House to fish for Walleye on =Fly after that, and I told him I didn't think my body could take any = The Hex's were huge! Extended body, deer hair, on a #6 hook, but =that was what the little trouties wanted, so we gave it to them.All in all, a pretty damn good night of fishing! Matter of fact, =an excellent night. However, I truly think we need to re-classify =flyfishing as a contact sport, cause I look worse than I used to in my =Football days!Now... Anyone want to go fishing with me! LOL I seem to have =problems finding a fishing partner that can handle "Flyfishing with =Bob's Rules" :^) Maybe, becaue I consider last night to be a GREAT =fishing adventure!Oh, one last note... all of the fish were caught on a 5'6" 2pc 4wt =cane... she never wavered, even when we were boulder fishing in the =ravine! Later,Bruiser Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C00ADB.D73898A0 Lee ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 = AMSubject: fishing cane Guys, night and just had to report to the list... with not much luck... one brown about 12 inches was all the day = Hexagenia Hatch in the deep part of the river, except that he had a = see, then after that, just kept casting, and when we heard something = well in excess of 20 trout (stopped counting at 14), in the 12 to 18" = the same spot... off the same damn rock!!! First fall just put me up = which is black as your hat today, but while sitting there moaning, a = about 10 feet from me, and from my non-ambulatory position in the = not broken, although I am sporting a pretty good limp today! :^) flashlight , so I had to hike in the dark on a moonless night, what = have been about a quarter of a mile through flat woods back to the = Keep in mind, no moon, and the tree canopy was so thick you couldn't = stars... Did you ever notice how you can't remember in the dark if the = on my wading boots and nylon Columbia shorts... well now they look = dubbing, but still, not much protection for the legs. I hit every = in the woods, and probably some of them twice (yes, I WAS lost for = geez, there wasn't anyone to ask directions from! I tried talking to = Southeast Oklahoma! there were no ravines the way I went in, and I really think someone = good of a job of saving my back, ribs and butt... all are extremely = deal... it will heal faster than the rest of me! *S* me walking down a road about 3 miles from where we went in (keep in = we were only fishing about a quarter mile from the cars) and took me = after that, and I told him I didn't think my body could take any more = = on a #6 hook, but that was what the little trouties wanted, so we gave = them. re-classify flyfishing as a contact sport, cause I look worse than I = in my Football days! be a GREAT fishing adventure! 5'6" 2pc 4wt cane... she never wavered, even when we were boulder = the ravine! Later,Bruiser Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C00ADB.D73898A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Aug 20 21:38:18 2000 e7L2cHG29588 Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:39:53 -0500 Subject: Re: fishing cane That's a jewel Bob ! Man, talk about loving what we do ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: fishing cane Guys,Went night fishing on the Lower Mountain Fork last night and just had toreport to the list...I had been fishing in the afternoon on the LMF with not much luck...one brown about 12 inches was all the day fishing produced. Went toBeaversBend Fly Shop (owned by Sid... If you fish the river, you have to go meetSid). I met a guy at Sids Fly Shop named Sterling. He is a "Mountain ForkExpert" and invited me to fish the Hexagenia Hatch in the deep part of theriver, except that he had a kick boat for the deep water, and I did not, butknew a place where I could hike in and fish it from the shallows. I wasgame for it... and, let me tell ya, I had a blast! We got into rainbows andbrowns until it was too dark to see, then after that, just kept casting, andwhen we heard something rise in the vicinity of our flies, just set thehook. I lost count, but landed well in excess of 20 trout (stopped countingat 14), in the 12 to 18" range, mostly rainbows, but did catch one 16" browntrout.Now... I have fallen in many rivers, but last night was the topper ofall my falling adventures... I fell fell twice... in the same spot... offthe same damn rock!!! First fall just put me up to my neck in 63 degreewater. Yep, it was cold, and I was wet wading to begin with. On the secondfall, I honestly thought that I had broken my leg, which is black as yourhat today, but while sitting there moaning, a Bow rose about 10 feet fromme, and from my non-ambulatory position in the river, I cast to him andcaught him. Even landed him without removing my butt and my aching legfromthe rock on which I landed. In any case, the leg was not broken, although Iam sporting a pretty good limp today! :^)Apparently, during one of my falls, I lost my flashlight , so I had tohike in the dark on a moonless night, what should have been about a quarterof a mile through flat woods back to the car. Keep in mind, no moon, andthe tree canopy was so thick you couldn't see the stars... Did you evernotice how you can't remember in the dark if the moss grows on the northside or the south side of the tree??? :^o Well, I think I covered somewhereclose to 6 miles. My legs look like I've been tortured by two angry TomCats. Like I said, I was wet wading, and had on my wading boots and nylonColumbia shorts... well now they look like nylon dubbing, but still, notmuch protection for the legs. I hit every briar patch in the woods, andprobably some of them twice (yes, I WAS lost for awhile, but geez, therewasn't anyone to ask directions from! I tried talking to the Owls, but allthey would say is WHO, WHO and I really wanted to know WHERE? WHERE?). Iamnow on first name bases with ever low hanging limb in Southeast Oklahoma!Also, on my "altered" route back to the car, I fell down a ravine.Geez, the ground looked flat in the dark, and besides, there were no ravinesthe way I went in, and I really think someone dug that sucker while I was onthe river! I did save the rod, but didn't do too good of a job of saving myback, ribs and butt... all are extremely sore, as are my feet, knees andneck! The abrasion over the right eye is no big deal... it will heal fasterthan the rest of me! *S*In any case, after that fiasco, Sterling finally found me walking down aroad about 3 miles from where we went in (keep in mind that we were onlyfishing about a quarter mile from the cars) and took me back to the BlueBomb. He went on to the Power House to fish for Walleye on Fly after that,and I told him I didn't think my body could take any more fishing for theday, and I headed home.The Hex's were huge! Extended body, deer hair, on a #6 hook, but thatwas what the little trouties wanted, so we gave it to them.All in all, a pretty damn good night of fishing! Matter of fact, anexcellent night. However, I truly think we need to re-classify flyfishingas a contact sport, cause I look worse than I used to in my Football days!Now... Anyone want to go fishing with me! LOL I seem to have problemsfinding a fishing partner that can handle "Flyfishing with Bob's Rules" :^)Maybe, becaue I consider last night to be a GREAT fishing adventure!Oh, one last note... all of the fish were caught on a 5'6" 2pc 4wtcane... she never wavered, even when we were boulder fishing in the ravine! Later,Bruiser Bob from cathcreek@hotmail.com Sun Aug 20 22:30:06 2000 e7L3U5G00434 Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:29:59 -0700 Mon, 21 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Re: "Gel" Pen Research FILETIME=[157322E0:01C00B20] Randy, thanks for the info. I have used a gold gel with some good luck as of late. Won't hold it against you where you bought the pens from....... :) Rob From: "Randy Brewer" Subject: "Gel" Pen ResearchDate: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:56:19 -0700 I have tried out two more "gel" pens for signing bamboo. Here's the scoop. Tested: Zebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - Dark RedZebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - Dark GreenZebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - GraySakura GellRoll XPGB - Black Previously tested: Pilot P-700 Fine 0.7 - Black All were purchased for less than $2 each from the University of Oregonbookstore. I think they are available at most Office Depot-type stores aswell. All of the pens delivered clear smooth lines on an unfinished bamboo blank.I somewhat prefer the Zebra pens, but was unable to find them with blackink. All pens tested worked well. If you haven't tried one of these newpens, I suggest that you give them a try. -Randy ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from brewer@teleport.com Mon Aug 21 09:56:41 2000 e7LEueG10457 "taliesin" 07:56:34 2000 Subject: Re: "Gel" Pen Research It's OK Rob, I wrote a bad check! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: "Gel" Pen Research Randy, thanks for the info. I have used a gold gel with some good luck asof late. Won't hold it against you where you bought the pens from....... :) Rob From: "Randy Brewer" Subject: "Gel" Pen ResearchDate: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:56:19 -0700 I have tried out two more "gel" pens for signing bamboo. Here's thescoop. Tested: Zebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - Dark RedZebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - Dark GreenZebra Antique Hyperjell 0.7 - GraySakura GellRoll XPGB - Black Previously tested: Pilot P-700 Fine 0.7 - Black All were purchased for less than $2 each from the University of Oregonbookstore. I think they are available at most Office Depot-type stores aswell. All of the pens delivered clear smooth lines on an unfinished bambooblank.I somewhat prefer the Zebra pens, but was unable to find them with blackink. All pens tested worked well. If you haven't tried one of these newpens, I suggest that you give them a try. -Randy ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Aug 21 12:41:15 2000 e7LHfAG16632 +0100 Subject: Automatic Fly Reels USA made( or should I say Jap made for the USA market! ) second user flyreels are becoming increasing common here in the UK at really cheapprices ( after the pound conversion say at less than $15)What are the list members experiences of such reels, are they worthbuying ?.............Paul from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Aug 21 12:59:39 2000 e7LHxbG17292 11:04:34 PDT Subject: Re: Automatic Fly Reels i put a high value on education. $15.00 might beconsidered a small price to pay for the education. ihad one when i was a kid. education seemed cheaper inthose old'n days. i don't have one now. timothy --- "paul.blakley" wrote:USA made( or should I say Jap made for the USAmarket! ) second user flyreels are becoming increasing common here in the UKat really cheapprices ( after the pound conversion say at less than$15)What are the list members experiences of such reels,are they worthbuying ?.............Paul ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Aug 21 13:04:24 2000 e7LI4NG17733 Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:09:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Automatic Fly Reels Paul,They are great for breaking tips off rods or jamming up. They are nice tolook at. I have quite a collection of them but I don't try to use any ofthem.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "paul.blakley" wrote: USA made( or should I say Jap made for the USA market! ) second user flyreels are becoming increasing common here in the UK at really cheapprices ( after the pound conversion say at less than $15)What are the list members experiences of such reels, are they worthbuying ?.............Paul from mdonovan@downcity.net Mon Aug 21 17:11:17 2000 e7LMBGG26495 0400 Subject: Mucilin Paste Hello to all, Can anyone recommend a source for Mucilin paste for use on old silk andnylon fly lines? I will be bringing several restored South Bend rods fromthe 1940's with me on an upcoming fishing trip to Maine and thought I'd trysome old fly lines on them to get the true feel. Most local fly shoppersonnel seem surprised by my inquiries for Musilin and simply shrug theirshoulders. I've heard that Mucilin may damage the coating on newer fly lines. Anytruth to this? If this is so, would the residual build up in the guides beenough to cause damage or should they be cleaned before using a modernplastic line? Thanks much!Mike mike from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Aug 21 17:18:33 2000 e7LMIWG26827 2000 15:18:31 PDT Subject: Re: Mucilin Paste I will pass along what little knowlege I have. The red "can" doesnot have silicone - which is what damages lines. So, use the red,not the green. Here is one of many sources. http://www.flyfishusa.com/accessories/fly-floatant.html --- "M. Donovan" wrote:Hello to all, Can anyone recommend a source for Mucilin paste for use on old silkandnylon fly lines? I will be bringing several restored South Bendrods fromthe 1940's with me on an upcoming fishing trip to Maine and thoughtI'd trysome old fly lines on them to get the true feel. Most local flyshoppersonnel seem surprised by my inquiries for Musilin and simplyshrug theirshoulders. I've heard that Mucilin may damage the coating on newer fly lines.Anytruth to this? If this is so, would the residual build up in theguides beenough to cause damage or should they be cleaned before using amodernplastic line? Thanks much!Mike mike __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail _ Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 21 17:26:15 2000 e7LMQDG27705 Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:24:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Automatic Fly Reels I have a Pfleuger Medallist, made in China, that seems pretty sound. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Automatic Fly Reels USA made( or should I say Jap made for the USA market! ) second user flyreels are becoming increasing common here in the UK at really cheapprices ( after the pound conversion say at less than $15)What are the list members experiences of such reels, are they worthbuying ?.............Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 21 17:39:40 2000 e7LMddG28416 Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:37:36 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Automatic Fly Reels Oops, I didn't see the "Automatic' in the header ! Just junky things, don'twaste your money ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Automatic Fly Reels I have a Pfleuger Medallist, made in China, that seems pretty sound. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "paul.blakley" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:35 PMSubject: Automatic Fly Reels USA made( or should I say Jap made for the USA market! ) second userflyreels are becoming increasing common here in the UK at really cheapprices ( after the pound conversion say at less than $15)What are the list members experiences of such reels, are they worthbuying ?.............Paul from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Aug 21 18:29:25 2000 e7LNTPG29679 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Mucilin Paste I just bought some red tins of mucilin from www.wwdoak.com forsomethinglike $4 cdn each. That's less than $3 U.S. Richard Can anyone recommend a source for Mucilin paste for use onold silk andnylon fly lines? from hartzell@easystreet.com Mon Aug 21 19:39:33 2000 e7M0dWG01067 RAA08414; Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built Richard.Winston rods are fluted throughout the section. I am not sure if theyflute through the ferrule section or not. They use a 1/8" rounded cutter. Iassume the flute leaves a constant depth of cane, but I am not sure of that.When I flute I leave .070 and run the section through the mill completely,then glue in a three inch round bamboo dowel in the ferrule area at the end ofthe butt (two piece rod) I have hollowed tips, but doubt that it is worth thetime. Winston does not bother. More if you are interested.Ed Hartzell Richard Nantel wrote: Would anyone know whether Winston's fluted hollow built rods are flutedthroughout a sod section (except for the ferrules and tip) or do they havedams every few inches. If the latter, how far apart are the dams? Thanks in advance, Richard from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Aug 21 19:42:13 2000 e7M0gCG01209 Subject: Re: Mucilin Paste Mike,There should be no buildup in the guides. Only a thin film of mucilinshould be used on the line, any excess should be removed.I find it difficult to believe that either "red or green tin Mucilin" willcause damage to PVC lines. I've used both on plastic lines in an effort tofloat the tips and could detect no damage.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "M. Donovan" wrote: Hello to all, Can anyone recommend a source for Mucilin paste for use on old silk andnylon fly lines? I will be bringing several restored South Bend rods fromthe 1940's with me on an upcoming fishing trip to Maine and thought I'd trysome old fly lines on them to get the true feel. Most local fly shoppersonnel seem surprised by my inquiries for Musilin and simply shrug theirshoulders. I've heard that Mucilin may damage the coating on newer fly lines. Anytruth to this? If this is so, would the residual build up in the guides beenough to cause damage or should they be cleaned before using a modernplastic line? Thanks much!Mikemike from jaybird@skypoint.com Mon Aug 21 20:09:58 2000 e7M19vG01832 Subject: Beginner needs help with planing form assembly Dear Rodmakers, A friend borrowed me a set of steel planing forms that he received from thewidow of an old time rod maker. They are 5' long and have singledifferentialbolt adjusters every 5". They are very similar in design to the diagram onpage 50 of Frank Goulds book "Constructing Cane Rods". The forms wereverydirty when I received them. Some of the adjusting bolts were difficult tomove and corroded. I figured it would be a good idea to disassemble theforms and clean them up. I checked all the bolt holes and found that some had a bit of damage to thethreads but appear that they will still be functional. Now, I'm at the point where I want to reassemble the forms and I'm havingtrouble. It appears that you can not just put the matching 60 degree bevelstight to each other and screw the bolts tight. I tried this and it does notseem to leave any room for form adjustment. My guess is that there is certain distance the parallel bars of the formmust be apart before youinstall the adjusting screws. Does this space need to be narrower at thetip(smaller 60 degree groove) end and wider at the butt ends before I installscrews? jaybird@skypoint.com Thank you, Jay C. Johnson from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Aug 21 20:43:25 2000 e7M1hPG02895 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: E.C. Powell tapers I'd say the thing I enjoy most about rod building is picking the tapers formy next rods. As I put the last finishing passes on my 12 ft Waara taperspey rod, I have the splines ready to begin a Charles Ritz 8'6" FarioClub. (I'm giving you paraholics a second chance.) I'm now considering building something based on one of E.C. Powell'stapers. Powell's rods had a reputation for being long, powerful yet quitelight due to the hollow-built butt section, perfect for steelheading, etc.Claude Krieder's book lists a couple, a 9 ft and a 9.5 ft. (Amazingly, the9.5 ft weighs in just a touch over 5 ounces.) I'm considering building the9 ft one. Has anyone built one of these tapers? If so, I'd appreciate any commentsyou might have. Thanks in advance Richard PS. As you've probably realized, I feel bamboo as a material doesn't haveto stop at 8ft. :-) from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Aug 21 21:41:39 2000 e7M2fdG04093 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: FYI: How times have changed from Holden's The Idyl of the Split-Bamboo, 1920 "An 8.5-foot rod ordinarily weighs about 4.5 ounces; one of 9.5 feet 6ounces; and of 10.5 feet, eight ounces. Rods are made to weigh much underthese figures; split bamboos have been constructed, from seven to eightfeet in length, that would scale one and three-quarter ounces -- perchanceeven less, for all we know. It hardly is necessary to state that such aphenomenally light creations are suitable only for the maker's exhibit ofhis technical skill or as pretty toys for the collection of the finaciallyplethoric anglermaniac." He must be rolling in his grave! Richard from rodsmiths@imt.net Mon Aug 21 22:36:58 2000 e7M3awG05668 Organization: Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, Ltd. Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built Hello, Winston's fluted rods are fluted only in the butt section and are solid underthe ferrules for strength. The flute is a continuous flute unlike the ECPowell rods that is scalloped as you go up the rod. Generally, the flute is a1/16" radius cutter although smaller ones have been used on small rods and Iwould guess on some of the bigger surf & trolling rods wider cutters wereused. There was some taper to the fluting but most of it is a straighttaper. The wall thickness ran from about .070" to .090" depending on thesizeof the rod with the thicker wall being on the larger rods. We had speciallong brushes to clean out as much glue as possible during the gluing process. Tom Morgan Richard Nantel wrote: Would anyone know whether Winston's fluted hollow built rods are flutedthroughout a sod section (except for the ferrules and tip) or do they havedams every few inches. If the latter, how far apart are the dams? Thanks in advance, Richard from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Aug 22 05:18:09 2000 e7MAI8G10678 0000 (204.186.33.46) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Beginner needs help with planing form assembly from what I have heard the very last resort on a form with differentialscrews is to take it apart. Now I know why. There was/is a guy (Gene atSecond Ave bait house in Iowa) that was/is still making that type ofform. Marty Dear Rodmakers, A friend borrowed me a set of steel planing forms that he received fromthewidow of an old time rod maker. They are 5' long and have singledifferentialbolt adjusters every 5". They are very similar in design to the diagram onpage 50 of Frank Goulds book "Constructing Cane Rods". The forms wereverydirty when I received them. Some of the adjusting bolts were difficult tomove and corroded. I figured it would be a good idea to disassemble theforms and clean them up. I checked all the bolt holes and found that some had a bit of damage to thethreads but appear that they will still be functional. Now, I'm at the point where I want to reassemble the forms and I'm havingtrouble. It appears that you can not just put the matching 60 degreebevelstight to each other and screw the bolts tight. I tried this and it does notseem to leave any room for form adjustment. My guess is that there is certain distance the parallel bars of the formmust be apart before youinstall the adjusting screws. Does this space need to be narrower at thetip(smaller 60 degree groove) end and wider at the butt ends before I installscrews? jaybird@skypoint.com Thank you, Jay C. Johnson from seanmcs@ar.com.au Tue Aug 22 05:54:28 2000 e7MArvG11631 Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:55:35 +1000 Subject: Re: Mucilin Paste A late thought: Noel Buxton when he founded Phoenix Lines - a revival ofsilk lines - recommended the "red tin" Mucilin for dressing these silklines for floatation. He recommended against the "green tin" onesbecause of their silicone content, that might affect the natural linecomposition. Whether these different dressings have any effect onplastic lines I do not know. Sean reed curry wrote: Mike,There should be no buildup in the guides. Only a thin film of mucilinshould be used on the line, any excess should be removed.I find it difficult to believe that either "red or green tin Mucilin" willcause damage to PVC lines. I've used both on plastic lines in an effort tofloat the tips and could detect no damage.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "M. Donovan" wrote: Hello to all, Can anyone recommend a source for Mucilin paste for use on old silk andnylon fly lines? I will be bringing several restored South Bend rods fromthe 1940's with me on an upcoming fishing trip to Maine and thought I'dtrysome old fly lines on them to get the true feel. Most local fly shoppersonnel seem surprised by my inquiries for Musilin and simply shrugtheirshoulders. I've heard that Mucilin may damage the coating on newer fly lines. Anytruth to this? If this is so, would the residual build up in the guides beenough to cause damage or should they be cleaned before using a modernplastic line? Thanks much!Mikemike from anglport@con2.com Tue Aug 22 09:07:44 2000 e7ME7iG15861 Subject: Re: Beginner needs help with planing form assembly Jay,This doesn't come with a guarantee, but it's the best I can do (It's beena while since I wrote it for myself).I set the forms next to each other and started all the screws so the coarse (narrow) threads started to "bite" in the far form. I then pushedthe forms apart .15" (I used the thickness of a standard 1' machinist'sruler as a spacer -- actually, I think I had to use a 1 ft and a 6 in toget the .15) and sent the screws in until the first fine thread was aboutto bite in the near bar (all of 'em). I slid the rule up and down thelength of the combo so everything was more-or-less in line. Now the fun begins. Get each screw to JUST bite with that first thread(possibly one full turn) and then work your way up and down the formsadvancing each screw one or two turns, bringing everything togetherparallel. You'll find that if the first thread isn't engaged on a screw theones next to it will pull the forms away so it starts later enough that atsome point you'll need it to widen the forms and it'll pull right out atthe critical point (OR it'll rip out the last thread of that tapping andgive you worse nightmares). This is especially important near the butt ifyou're going to try swelled butts.The reason I began this with the warning is if the threads or theform-taper of yours are different from mine, you may have to use thesystemwith a different initial separation. This makes itself known after you'veset just about AAAALL the screws and either the forms won't completelyclose or they close up tight and some screws aren't far enough into thenear bar for usefulness.The one thing you want to do is take notes on your final success, as younever know whne you might have to go through this garbage again (Don'tevenask how I know this :^0 )Good luck,Art At 08:00 PM 08/21/2000 +0100, Jay C. Johnson wrote:Dear Rodmakers, A friend borrowed me a set of steel planing forms that he received fromthewidow of an old time rod maker. They are 5' long and have singledifferentialbolt adjusters every 5". They are very similar in design to the diagram onpage 50 of Frank Goulds book "Constructing Cane Rods". The forms wereverydirty when I received them. Some of the adjusting bolts were difficult tomove and corroded. I figured it would be a good idea to disassemble theforms and clean them up. I checked all the bolt holes and found that some had a bit of damage to thethreads but appear that they will still be functional. Now, I'm at the point where I want to reassemble the forms and I'm havingtrouble. It appears that you can not just put the matching 60 degree bevelstight to each other and screw the bolts tight. I tried this and it does notseem to leave any room for form adjustment. My guess is that there is certain distance the parallel bars of the formmust be apart before youinstall the adjusting screws. Does this space need to be narrower at thetip(smaller 60 degree groove) end and wider at the butt ends before I installscrews? jaybird@skypoint.com Thank you, Jay C. Johnson from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Aug 22 09:14:14 2000 e7MEEDG16202 Subject: Straightening I have a client that would like me to straighten a H.I from the 30's. Is it safe to do this with mild heat? Also what would I charge for doing it.T.I.A Joe from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Aug 22 11:51:42 2000 e7MGpfG22312 richard.nantel@videotron.ca Subject: RE: Fluted hollow built ed, I talked to jeff walker from winston at the last corbett lake gathering. he said that they stop the fluting at the ferrule stations to provide asolid core of cane beneath the ferrules (I can't remember if he specifiedhow long the actual dams were). chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built Richard.Winston rods are fluted throughout the section. I am not sure if theyflute through the ferrule section or not. They use a 1/8" rounded cutter.Iassume the flute leaves a constant depth of cane, but I am not sure ofthat.When I flute I leave .070 and run the section through the mill completely,then glue in a three inch round bamboo dowel in the ferrule area at the endofthe butt (two piece rod) I have hollowed tips, but doubt that it is worththetime. Winston does not bother. More if you are interested.Ed Hartzell Richard Nantel wrote: Would anyone know whether Winston's fluted hollow built rods are flutedthroughout a sod section (except for the ferrules and tip) or do they havedams every few inches. If the latter, how far apart are the dams? Thanks in advance, Richard from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 22 17:28:44 2000 e7MMSeG04955 Subject: test --=====================_34963514==_.ALT Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_34963514==_.ALT Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_34963514==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 22 17:53:05 2000 e7MMr4G05662 Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built --=====================_36376700==_.ALT Hi Tom:Any chance of a Hand Mill attachment to flute rods anytime soon?Best regards,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_36376700==_.ALT Hi Tom:Any chance of a Hand Mill attachment to flute rods anytimesoon?Best regards,Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_36376700==_.ALT-- from esavage@parkerduryee.com Tue Aug 22 18:00:55 2000 e7MN0mG05947 Subject: RE: custom ferrule Don: You might check directly with LL Bean. Because of their exceedingly broadguarantee/warranty, they frequently get returns of very old merchandise,andit would not be at all surprising if they had one of the ferrules you arelooking for (or a broken rod with the ferrule you are looking for). You mayhave to follow-up every few months if they don't have what you are looking piece for) for an old LL Bean Signature fly reel that had been discontinuedten years earlier and called them and managed to get a used, but in verygood condition, Signature reel, so I now can put my extra spools to gooduse. Ed Savage [esavage@parkerduryee.com] -----Original Message----- Subject: custom ferrule Does anyone know of a shop that will make a replacement ferrule for an oldrod? I need a male tip ferrule for an old LLBean rod and I don't have ametal lathe. Or any of the hobbyists out there interested? Email off listthanks. Don DeLoach from miler257@gateway.net Tue Aug 22 18:54:16 2000 e7MNsGG07279 Subject: subscribe This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C00C6A.AF148C40 subscribe rodmakers Ed Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C00C6A.AF148C40 subscribe rodmakers Ed =Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C00C6A.AF148C40-- from scottb@teleport.com Tue Aug 22 19:34:07 2000 e7N0Y6G08345 (216.26.63.34) Organization: Bellows & Associates Subject: IDing old rod A friend found an old bamboo rod sealed in the wall of a house he wasrehabbing. It's a multipiece (3 or 4), with an extra tip. Each pieceiskeptin its own groove in a piece of wood that protects/stiffens it, andthewhole thing slides into a canvas bag. Stamped in the metal right abovethereel seat is a diamond with the letters DE, transversed by an arrowgoingleft-to-right. Anyone know what kind of rod this is, or where I could go to find out? Thanks! from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Aug 22 20:23:36 2000 e7N1NaG09237 Subject: Re: Mucilin Paste Mike,After sending the email below, I have heard differing reports. One personsaysred is bad for PVC, another says green is detrimental. But the reports arestillhearsay. Perhaps some listmember has used one of these Mucilins and hasexperienced damage to their lines. If so, please advise us. As I said, I haven'tbeen able to detect any damage to the PVC, but plastic lines don't have alonglifespan, anyway, so perhaps I shortened its life and never noticed.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ reed curry wrote: Mike,There should be no buildup in the guides. Only a thin film of mucilinshould be used on the line, any excess should be removed.I find it difficult to believe that either "red or green tin Mucilin" willcause damage to PVC lines. I've used both on plastic lines in an effort tofloat the tips and could detect no damage.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Tue Aug 22 21:12:55 2000 e7N2CsG10195 11:12:51 +0900 (JST) 11:12:50 +0900 (JST) Subject: Snake guide used on Orvis Vatenkill Hello, Does anyone know which maker's snake guides are used on original Orvis Vatenkill? Appreciate the info. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Aug 22 22:04:29 2000 e7N34SG11621 2000 20:04:27 PDT Subject: Re: Mucilin Paste It is surprising that there is not more info out there on this topic.I don't pretend to know the answers, but what I have seen are thefollowing: 1. A post by the makers of Phoenix lines about line carehttp://flyfish.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$13 2. This article about caring for plastic lines with a reference about3/4 of the way downhttp://www.danblanton.com/tlcflyline.html Also, I was told early on when fishing graphite with plastic lines tokeep silicone floatants away from the line. Just more fodder. --- reed curry wrote:Mike,After sending the email below, I have heard differing reports.One person saysred is bad for PVC, another says green is detrimental. But thereports are stillhearsay. Perhaps some listmember has used one of these Mucilins andhasexperienced damage to their lines. If so, please advise us. As Isaid, I haven'tbeen able to detect any damage to the PVC, but plastic lines don'thave a longlifespan, anyway, so perhaps I shortened its life and nevernoticed.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ reed curry wrote: Mike,There should be no buildup in the guides. Only a thin film ofmucilinshould be used on the line, any excess should be removed.I find it difficult to believe that either "red or green tinMucilin" willcause damage to PVC lines. I've used both on plastic lines in aneffort tofloat the tips and could detect no damage.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Tue Aug 22 22:13:28 2000 e7N3DSG11955 Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built Please pardon a beginnners question. Could one of you kind gents describe what is meant by fluted? I undestand the hollow built, but not getting what the rest of the conversation is about, TIA , and thanks to whoever it was that mentioned alldirect.com fo obtaining Waynes latest book, I ordered it Sunday and got shipping conformation today, and should have for the week end.Yippie Thanks again,Jim Flinchbaughon fire in Montana ( not quite but the hotdogs are closeby!) from caneman@clnk.com Tue Aug 22 22:35:23 2000 e7N3ZNG12829 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built Jim,Many of the Hollow built rods have a hex shaped hole down the center...in other words, the hollow is made by planing, sanding, grinding, cutting ormilling the apex flat on the strips, so that when glued together it ishollow. The only theoretical problem with this is that while it does reduceweight, it also greatly reduces your gluing surfaceHollow Fluted rods have a radiused cut milled out of the apex. By thatI mean that instead of removing the material down to a flat, it is like around groove running the inner apex of the rod. This reduces weight also,however, does not remove near as much of the gluing surface as the formermethod does. Hope that explained it,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built Please pardon a beginnners question. Could one of you kind gentsdescribe what is meant by fluted? I undestand the hollow built, butnot getting what the rest of the conversation is about, TIA , andthanks to whoever it was that mentioned alldirect.com fo obtainingWaynes latest book, I ordered it Sunday and got shippingconformation today, and should have for the week end.YippieThanks again,Jim Flinchbaughon fire in Montana( not quite but the hotdogs are closeby!) from Collins@dccnet.com Tue Aug 22 23:50:05 2000 e7N4o4G14083 Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:45:05 -0700 Subject: Hollow Built I have been wondering what would be the effect of using PU glue on hollow built rods.Lately, I have been using Elmer's Probond glue for nodeless splices as well as gluing up the rod segments.The basic method I use is to lightly wet the surfaces and then apply the glue.I get a fairly good foam out with the glue. This foam is VERY sticky until it cures, then it is flexible, quite tuff and very light in weight.Using this glue and method on hollow built rods would/could result in a tuff, flexible and light foam core.What the actual impact of this foam core is I don't know until I try it out. But it could provide additional glue area with little weight impact. I'm planning on planing and gluing up a short hollow segment that I will cut in half and checkout the quality of the foam core. The real test would be to build three sections, solid, hollow and foam core and compare the action of each. Doug from timklein@uswest.net Wed Aug 23 00:26:52 2000 e7N5QpG15184 (63.225.127.238) Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built Jim - Here's a link to a patent drawing on the Winston site: http://www.winstonrods.com/Moods/mood_patent.html ---Tim Please pardon a beginnners question. Could one of you kind gentsdescribe what is meant by fluted? I undestand the hollow built, butnot getting what the rest of the conversation is about, TIA , andthanks to whoever it was that mentioned alldirect.com fo obtainingWaynes latest book, I ordered it Sunday and got shippingconformation today, and should have for the week end.Yippie from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Aug 23 05:17:42 2000 e7NAHfG18789 0000 (204.186.33.12) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: IDing old rod Hi Scott, I am 95% sure the rod is an early Horricks Ibotson(spelling?) out of Utica NY.The early HI's had the diamond stamping.Witha photo of the stamping I would be 100% sure.Marty A friend found an old bamboo rod sealed in the wall of a house he wasrehabbing. It's a multipiece (3 or 4), with an extra tip. Each pieceiskeptin its own groove in a piece of wood that protects/stiffens it, andthewhole thing slides into a canvas bag. Stamped in the metal right abovethereel seat is a diamond with the letters DE, transversed by an arrowgoingleft-to-right. Anyone know what kind of rod this is, or where I could go to find out? Thanks! from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Aug 23 08:06:52 2000 e7ND6nG21262 hme0.telusplanet.net Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:06:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow Built Doug, Have built both a solid rod and hollowed out rod of equal tapers with therods both coming from the same culm and the strips mixed so that strips inthe rod were alternated from the culm.The rods performed about the same except that the hollow rod would notcastquite as far as the solid rod. This lead me to the conclusion that for thesame action, hollow rods must be a tad larger in OD.Tom Morgan and I were talking about this last week. His experience wassimilar. regards, Don At 09:50 PM 8/22/00 -0700, Doug & Lynn Collins wrote:I have been wondering what would be the effect of using PU glue on hollow built rods.Lately, I have been using Elmer's Probond glue for nodeless splices as well as gluing up the rod segments.The basic method I use is to lightly wet the surfaces and then apply theglue.I get a fairly good foam out with the glue. This foam is VERY sticky until it cures, then it is flexible, quite tuff and very light in weight.Using this glue and method on hollow built rods would/could result in a tuff, flexible and light foam core.What the actual impact of this foam core is I don't know until I try it out. But it could provide additional glue area with little weight impact. I'm planning on planing and gluing up a short hollow segment that I will cut in half and checkout the quality of the foam core. The real test would be to build three sections, solid, hollow and foam core and compare the action of each. Doug http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 23 08:13:24 2000 e7NDDOG21806 Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:14:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Hollow Built That's exactly how I use the ProBond, and I've not been able to break a gluejoint yet. Fishing them will tell ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Hollow Built I have been wondering what would be the effect of using PU glue on hollowbuilt rods.Lately, I have been using Elmer's Probond glue for nodeless splices aswellas gluing up the rod segments.The basic method I use is to lightly wet the surfaces and then apply theglue.I get a fairly good foam out with the glue. This foam is VERY sticky untilit cures, then it is flexible, quite tuff and very light in weight.Using this glue and method on hollow built rods would/could result in atuff, flexible and light foam core.What the actual impact of this foam core is I don't know until I try itout. But it could provide additional glue area with little weight impact. I'm planning on planing and gluing up a short hollow segment that I willcut in half and checkout the quality of the foam core. The real test wouldbe to build three sections, solid, hollow and foam core and compare theaction of each. Doug from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Aug 23 08:28:13 2000 e7NDSCG22455 Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:27:50 -0500 Subject: Re: IDing old rod Sorry to add to the confusion, but I noticed that Scott had posted to othergroups without a response. I have an otherwise unmarked butt section withasimilar trademark on the reel seat. My understanding is that the "DE" is acomponent maker's mark and that he supplied HI and others. The DE standsfora non-descript slogan like deluxe edition or such. If so, the trademarkwon't tell you very much. Maybe Mike Sinclair could help if you e- mailedhim a description of the rod itself.Jim UFrom: "marty" Subject: Re: IDing old rod Hi Scott, I am 95% sure the rod is an early Horricks Ibotson(spelling?) out of Utica NY.The early HI's had the diamond stamping.Witha photo of the stamping I would be 100% sure.Marty A friend found an old bamboo rod sealed in the wall of a house he wasrehabbing. It's a multipiece (3 or 4), with an extra tip. Each pieceiskeptin its own groove in a piece of wood that protects/stiffens it, andthewhole thing slides into a canvas bag. Stamped in the metal right abovethereel seat is a diamond with the letters DE, transversed by an arrowgoingleft-to-right. Anyone know what kind of rod this is, or where I could go to find out? Thanks! from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Wed Aug 23 08:51:13 2000 e7NDpCG23490 Subject: Re: Fluted hollow built I can see clearly now , the pith is gone (sing to the old song "the rain is gone") Thanks for the infoJim from tklein@amgen.com Wed Aug 23 13:27:14 2000 e7NIREG05356 (8.8.8/Amgen-Cambridge-UK 2.1 (MDC)) (5.5.2650.10) Subject: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal O.K., I asked about this a couple of months ago but I didn't get a lot ofresponse. Now that there are a few more mill users on this list, I thoughtI'd ask one more time. How are you all doing enamel removal? I've beensanding the enamel off, along with the thread and excess glue, after gluingup my blank. I'm not very happy with the results though. I'm having a tough time removing a consistent amount of material. I've triedvery short sanding blocks and very long sanding blocks, but I can't seem toget to the point where I can remove a consistent amount. One of theadvantages of the hand mill is the consistency of the strips ( On the 3 rodsI've made using the mill, my typical flat to flat measurements vary lessthan 1 thousandth with the largest variance coming in around 1 and a halfthousandth). It's frustrating then to find variances of as much as 3 to 3and a half thousandths after sanding! Maybe I just need more practice, butsanding just doesn't seem to be a very accurate way of finishing a strip. Ialso tend to get a lot of "feathering" of the power fibers on the surface ofthe flats when sanding and I really dislike the look. I've considered putting my finished milled strips in a form and scraping theenamel off but I hate to resort to that. It seems like a lot of extra timeand effort and defeats a lot of the advantages of using the mill in thefirst place. Other than this solution (or changing my mind to appreciate thelook of a finely feathered finish on my rods), have any mill users come upwith another method? Thanks!---Timx11521 from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 23 13:37:41 2000 e7NIbeG05871 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal --=====================_28568108==_.ALT I do what you said, put them in the form and scrap away. Then I mill in the final taper. After gluing, I wipe down the blank really well and then minimally sand after taking the string off several hours after. The blanks are better. When I tried to sand or scrap only after gluing, I got awful measurements on the strips.Bob At 06:49 PM 8/23/00 +0100, Klein, Tim wrote:O.K., I asked about this a couple of months ago but I didn't get a lot ofresponse. Now that there are a few more mill users on this list, I thoughtI'd ask one more time. How are you all doing enamel removal? I've beensanding the enamel off, along with the thread and excess glue, after gluingup my blank. I'm not very happy with the results though. I'm having a tough time removing a consistent amount of material. I've triedvery short sanding blocks and very long sanding blocks, but I can't seem toget to the point where I can remove a consistent amount. One of theadvantages of the hand mill is the consistency of the strips ( On the 3 rodsI've made using the mill, my typical flat to flat measurements vary lessthan 1 thousandth with the largest variance coming in around 1 and a halfthousandth). It's frustrating then to find variances of as much as 3 to 3and a half thousandths after sanding! Maybe I just need more practice, butsanding just doesn't seem to be a very accurate way of finishing a strip. Ialso tend to get a lot of "feathering" of the power fibers on the surface ofthe flats when sanding and I really dislike the look. I've considered putting my finished milled strips in a form and scraping theenamel off but I hate to resort to that. It seems like a lot of extra timeand effort and defeats a lot of the advantages of using the mill in thefirst place. Other than this solution (or changing my mind to appreciate thelook of a finely feathered finish on my rods), have any mill users come upwith another method? Thanks!---Timx11521 Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_28568108==_.ALT I do what you said, put them in the form and scrap away. Then I mill inthe final taper. After gluing, I wipe down the blank really well and thenminimally sand after taking the string off several hours after. Theblanks are better. When I tried to sand or scrap only after gluing, I gotawful measurements on the strips. BobAt 06:49 PM 8/23/00 +0100, Klein, Tim wrote:O.K., I asked about this a couple of monthsago but I didn't get a lot ofresponse. Now that there are a few more mill users on this list, IthoughtI'd ask one more time. How are you all doing enamel removal? I'vebeensanding the enamel off, along with the thread and excess glue, aftergluingup my blank. I'm not very happy with the results though. I'm having a tough time removing a consistent amount of material. I'vetriedvery short sanding blocks and very long sanding blocks, but I can't seemtoget to the point where I can remove a consistent amount. One of theadvantages of the hand mill is the consistency of the strips ( On the 3rodsI've made using the mill, my typical flat to flat measurements varylessthan 1 thousandth with the largest variance coming in around 1 and ahalfthousandth). It's frustrating then to find variances of as much as 3 to3and a half thousandths after sanding! Maybe I just need more practice,butsanding just doesn't seem to be a very accurate way of finishing a strip.Ialso tend to get a lot of "feathering" of the power fibers onthe surface ofthe flats when sanding and I really dislike the look. I've considered putting my finished milled strips in a form and scrapingtheenamel off but I hate to resort to that. It seems like a lot of extratimeand effort and defeats a lot of the advantages of using the mill inthefirst place. Other than this solution (or changing my mind to appreciatethelook of a finely feathered finish on my rods), have any mill users comeupwith another method? Thanks!---Timx11521 Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_28568108==_.ALT-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Aug 23 13:44:54 2000 e7NIirG06346 Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:44:46 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Tim,Though I'm not a HandMill user, I think this same dilemma applies to planingstrips. I wonder how many makers leave a "whisp" of enamel on the stripsbeforegluing? If one does leave a little of the enamel on, then aren't your rodsections going to wind up somewhat rounded? Maybe even noticably so atthebigger end.I leave the enamel on through rough planing and heat treating, thenremoveabout 90% before I begin final planing. Also, I remove enough material to getatruly flat surface. I suspect I'm removing a little more material from thecenter of the strip than the sides. I definitely get more consistent stripswhen I remove the enamel prior to final planing. I also remove the string andre-bind before the glue is fully set. (Also, I use another trick or two so thatthere is very little glue left to be removed by sanding) That eliminates lotsof anxiety that came with sanding away the glue coated binding string andwondering where the flats should be.What about some of you others? When do you remove enamel? And howmuch doyou remove? Enough to flatten the strips, or a rounded area the same depthacross the radius of the strip? Harry "Klein, Tim" wrote: Now that there are a few more mill users on this list, I thoughtI'd ask one more time. How are you all doing enamel removal? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from tklein@amgen.com Wed Aug 23 14:47:26 2000 e7NJlPG09236 Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Thanks for the info Bob. I know what you mean about the awfulmeasurements.I've tried a different method on each rod, but I haven't been happy with anyof the results. I test each method on the section of the blank that willwind up under the reelseat and grip. You should see how badly I've botchedsome of them up. I really hate to spend the extra time setting up a form,but it seems like the only good solution to the problem. Are you scrapingyour roughed strips or tapered strips? I guess it would be a little quickerto scrape rough strips because you wouldn't have to take the time to set ataper in your forms. Since you're scraping prior to final milling, did you true the top of youanvils flat rather than slightly concave shape the sanding disk gives? ---Timx11521 I do what you said, put them in the form and scrap away. Then I mill inthe final taper. After gluing, I wipe down the blank really well and thenminimally sand after taking the string off several hours after. The blanksare better. When I tried to sand or scrap only after gluing, I got awfulmeasurements on the strips. Bob from tklein@amgen.com Wed Aug 23 15:01:35 2000 e7NK1YG10124 Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I used the same scraping procedure as you when I was planing. I didn't havenearly as much trouble with my final sanding because all I was doing wasremoving the thread, glue residue, and the tiniest amount of remainingenamel. Having the enamel intact does have one nice advantage in that the threadpulls off easily and takes much of the glue residue with it. I wish I couldjust "will" the enamel off because my blanks are incredibly accurate at thispoint in the process. Out comes the sandpaper though, and my hard earnedaccuracy goes up in a cloud of (saw)dust.---Tim ---------- Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 12:43 PM Cc: 'Rodmakers List'Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Tim,Though I'm not a HandMill user, I think this same dilemma applies toplaningstrips. I wonder how many makers leave a "whisp" of enamel on the stripsbeforegluing? If one does leave a little of the enamel on, then aren't your rodsections going to wind up somewhat rounded? Maybe even noticably so atthebigger end.I leave the enamel on through rough planing and heat treating, thenremoveabout 90% before I begin final planing. Also, I remove enough material toget atruly flat surface. I suspect I'm removing a little more material fromthecenter of the strip than the sides. I definitely get more consistentstripswhen I remove the enamel prior to final planing. I also remove the stringandre-bind before the glue is fully set. (Also, I use another trick or twoso thatthere is very little glue left to be removed by sanding) That eliminateslotsof anxiety that came with sanding away the glue coated binding string andwondering where the flats should be.What about some of you others? When do you remove enamel? Andhowmuch doyou remove? Enough to flatten the strips, or a rounded area the samedepthacross the radius of the strip? Harry "Klein, Tim" wrote: Now that there are a few more mill users on this list, I thoughtI'd ask one more time. How are you all doing enamel removal? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from rmoon@ida.net Wed Aug 23 15:15:05 2000 e7NKF4G10792 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal --------------C04A5628E92F1D555074DD75 HarryI admit that flying by the seat of your pants is not conducive toexplaining the aerodynamics of flight, but that is the way a lot of uslive. I think that leaving the enamel on the strip until it is glued isthe worst kind of technique. (I can't ex plain why I think so, but Ido) I think sanding the enamel away ranks second to leaving it on. (Ican't explain why I think so, but I do.) I don't think that binding asection twice serves any useful purpose (I can't explain why I do, but Ido). I am not in any way being critical of procedures others are using,but only being enamored with my own methods. Each strip after my rough planing is carefully scraped and leveled andsanded on the back before final planing. I don't have a mill, but if Idid, the strip would not undergo final milling until the surface wassmooth and straight. Anytime I get sloppy, I take another look at the first rod I made when Iwas too afraid of taking too much fiber from the surface of the cane,that I took hardly any of the enamel. Needless to say it looks like****. I still believe firmly in preserving as much of the power fiberlayer as possible, but not to the extent of round backs and streakyappearance. Ralph --------------C04A5628E92F1D555074DD75 HarryI admit that flying by the seat of your pants is not conducive toexplaining I think that leaving the enamel on the strip until it is glued is the worst I think sanding the enamel away ranks second to leaving it that binding a section twice serves any useful purpose (I can't explain others are using, but only being enamored with my own methods. but if I did, the strip would not undergo final milling until the surfacewas smooth and straight.Anytime I get sloppy, I take another look at the first rod I made whenI was too afraid of taking too much fiber from the surface of the cane, layer as possible, but not to the extent of round backs and streakyappearance.Ralph --------------C04A5628E92F1D555074DD75-- from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 23 15:28:21 2000 e7NKSKG11517 Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal --=====================_35207384==_.ALT I scrape just before final planing. (Scrape rough strips) I have not messed with the curvature of the anvil tops, they still hold flat scraped strips just fine.Best regards,Bob At 12:45 PM 8/23/00 -0700, Klein, Tim wrote:Thanks for the info Bob. I know what you mean about the awfulmeasurements.I've tried a different method on each rod, but I haven't been happy with anyof the results. I test each method on the section of the blank that willwind up under the reelseat and grip. You should see how badly I've botchedsome of them up. I really hate to spend the extra time setting up a form,but it seems like the only good solution to the problem. Are you scrapingyour roughed strips or tapered strips? I guess it would be a little quickerto scrape rough strips because you wouldn't have to take the time to set ataper in your forms. Since you're scraping prior to final milling, did you true the top of youanvils flat rather than slightly concave shape the sanding disk gives?---Timx11521 I do what you said, put them in the form and scrap away. Then I mill inthe final taper. After gluing, I wipe down the blank really well and thenminimally sand after taking the string off several hours after. Theblanksare better. When I tried to sand or scrap only after gluing, I got awfulmeasurements on the strips.Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_35207384==_.ALT I scrape just before final planing. (Scrape rough strips) I have notmessed with the curvature of the anvil tops, they still hold flat scrapedstrips just fine.Best regards,Bob At 12:45 PM 8/23/00 -0700, Klein, Tim wrote:Thanks for the info Bob. I know what you meanabout the awful measurements.I've tried a different method on each rod, but I haven't been happy withanyof the results. I test each method on the section of the blank thatwillwind up under the reelseat and grip. You should see how badly I'vebotchedsome of them up. I really hate to spend the extra time setting up aform,but it seems like the only good solution to the problem. Are youscrapingyour roughed strips or tapered strips? I guess it would be a littlequickerto scrape rough strips because you wouldn't have to take the time to setataper in your forms. Since you're scraping prior to final milling, did you true the top ofyouanvils flat rather than slightly concave shape the sanding disk gives? ---Timx11521 in then blanks awful Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_35207384==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 23 15:31:51 2000 e7NKVnG11753 Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:29:47 -0500 Subject: Re: IDing old rod Most of these multi-function rods were by H-I or Montague, as I have 3 or 4myself. Frankly I got them before I understood what these meant, as in justaverage quality. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: IDing old rod Sorry to add to the confusion, but I noticed that Scott had posted toothergroups without a response. I have an otherwise unmarked butt sectionwithasimilar trademark on the reel seat. My understanding is that the "DE" isacomponent maker's mark and that he supplied HI and others. The DE standsfora non-descript slogan like deluxe edition or such. If so, the trademarkwon't tell you very much. Maybe Mike Sinclair could help if you e- mailedhim a description of the rod itself.Jim UFrom: "marty" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 5:09 AMSubject: Re: IDing old rod Hi Scott, I am 95% sure the rod is an early Horricks Ibotson(spelling?) out of Utica NY.The early HI's had the diamond stamping.Witha photo of the stamping I would be 100% sure.Marty A friend found an old bamboo rod sealed in the wall of a house he wasrehabbing. It's a multipiece (3 or 4), with an extra tip. Each pieceiskeptin its own groove in a piece of wood that protects/stiffens it, andthewhole thing slides into a canvas bag. Stamped in the metal rightabovethereel seat is a diamond with the letters DE, transversed by an arrowgoingleft-to-right. Anyone know what kind of rod this is, or where I could go to findout? Thanks! from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 23 16:37:29 2000 e7NLbSG15949 Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:35:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'm wondering about the type of sandpaper, and the grit you are using Tim.After filing the nodes, and getting roughed out strips, it seems thatcareful block sanding should produce a nice even surface. I'd think aprogression from a med. grit on down to finer grit would do this ? What are you others using to scrape with ? I have a couple of old tool steeljointer blades, that I've used with excellent results. I wish I could try aLie Nielsen just to see if it's worth all those bucks ? GMA from tklein@amgen.com Wed Aug 23 17:51:00 2000 e7NMoxG18906 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I usually start with 150 grit to remove the residual glue and rough up theenamel, then switch to 220 grit to finish. The paper is mounted on a hardrubber sanding block. I've also tried using a spray adhesive to mount a strip of paper to a longerrigid aluminum sanding block (a little less than a foot long). I figured thelonger surface would help to even out the amount of material that was beingremoved over a longer section of the flat; similar to the concept of thelong base on a jointing plane. It was difficult to keep it flat on top ofthe flat though and it tended to lean to one side or the other, removingmore material on that side or even rounding an edge. I just returned from the hobby store where I found one of the Sup-r Sandersmentioned on the supplies page of Rodmakers. It's a metal plate with carbidegrit permanently glued to it, mounted in a plastic frame. It seems prettyrigid and feels light enough that rocking side to side shouldn't be aproblem. I'm going to give that a try tonight and see if it helps at all. Ifnot, it looks like I'm going to have to get a hold of a planing form andstart scraping again.---Timx11521 ---------- Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 3:42 PM Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'm wondering about the type of sandpaper, and the grit you are using Tim.After filing the nodes, and getting roughed out strips, it seems thatcareful block sanding should produce a nice even surface. I'd think aprogression from a med. grit on down to finer grit would do this ? What are you others using to scrape with ? I have a couple of old toolsteeljointer blades, that I've used with excellent results. I wish I could tryaLie Nielsen just to see if it's worth all those bucks ? GMA from Bamboomaker@aol.com Wed Aug 23 18:51:15 2000 e7NNpEG20180 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Friends, I use a carbide sanding pad and I leave the enamel on because it is the only way I've been doing it. I should try scraping before final planing, however. Anyway, I've found that after straightening and heat treating the rough strips, that the enamel sides are quite flat after coming out of my Morgan hand mill. The accuracy is dependent on the flatness of this side, and it seems like sanding this side would add another step in the process, when you have to sand that side anyway. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I still like fitting ferrules by hand even though I recently bought this fancy metal lathe. I do the same when sanding my blanks just past the enamel. As long as the strips come from the same culm, theoretically, it should take a similar number of passes to remove this uniform enamel thickness. I just count my strokes with the carbide pad and clean the pad when moving to a new side. Sure, I'm bound to have some flat to flat variation, but how many of you never find a weaker spline in your blanks? If sanding is done carefully, you can achieve the same results as sanding down the enamel before finalplaning. It may take some time and meticulous finishing, but that is part of the enjoyment of making rods. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Aug 23 19:07:49 2000 e7O07mG20613 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Enhancements to my web site Hello all, Just finished a bunch of enhancements and need some people to help me testthem out... I just added live chat to my site and I want to find out if itwill work... Could someone visit my site at www.vfish.net and click on the need help iconat the upper left hand of the screen... If it works, we can have a shortchat... Thanks to all! Darrell from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Aug 23 19:14:34 2000 e7O0EXG20920 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'm not a handmill user but I too was unhappy with the results of sandingthe enamel off with the glue and binding string. I then started thinkingabout it and couldn't for the life of me think of a single good reason whythe enamel should be on the strips during the planing process. I then switched to the following order of things: 1. Split culm in half2. File ridge off nodes3. Flame the two culm halves (optional)4. Split the halves into quarters5. Sand off enamel6. Continue splitting until final strips are reached7. Press nodes and final sanding if necessary The result are strips that are perfectly flat, smooth, and enamel-free. (Mynode test is to run my finger down the enamel side of the strip with myeyes closed.) 8. Rough plane9. Temper10. Final plane and measure11. Glue and bind At the gluing stage, I'm careful to wipe off as much glue from the outsideof the blank as possible. 12. Sand string and very little remaining glue off blank13. Add guides, ferrules, grip, etc14. Finish15. Fish Hope this helps. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal O.K., I asked about this a couple of months ago but I didn'tget a lot ofresponse. Now that there are a few more mill users on thislist, I thoughtI'd ask one more time. How are you all doing enamel removal? I've beensanding the enamel off, along with the thread and excessglue, after gluingup my blank. I'm not very happy with the results though. from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 23 19:41:23 2000 e7O0fMG21597 Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:42:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'm thinking that perhaps you are starting with too rough a grit. Such arough grit would need to be used only straight up and down with the grain,as any across the grain motion would cut too deeply into the surface.Sanding on a level plane is acquired, and takes time to develop, so that arocking motion doesn't persist. I like Harry's second wrapping, to avoidallot of glue having to be removed, as this may be the thing that's causingmuch of the problem. I'm certainly no authority on cane, but have done allot of work with epoxiesand soft balsa wood. When you have hard epoxy, you must chip away theexcess, before you can sand decent shapes over a glue line, and it takesgentle patience to get it right. I do agree, it seems scraping the glue awayfirst is in order, before starting to sand with perhaps 220 the coarsestused, and only at first. I'd sure like to hear from you guys who have allot more experience with thistask. GMA from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Aug 23 19:41:35 2000 e7O0fYG21620 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Testing completed on www.vfish.net hello all, Thanks, the live chat works great! Sorry I couldn't chat will everyone as Iwas immediately deluged! Now, if someone has a question, they can chat with me if I'm at mycomputer... very cool! count the ways)... Ciao, Darrellwww.vfish.net from rmoon@ida.net Wed Aug 23 21:03:08 2000 e7O237G23490 0000 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal There You go Richard. I could not have said it better. I particularlylike your precision quality check. I always did think that human senseswere superior to all sorts of man made gizmos.Ralph from channer1@rmi.net Wed Aug 23 21:07:55 2000 e7O27sG23682 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal "Klein, Tim" wrote: I usually start with 150 grit to remove the residual glue and rough up theenamel, then switch to 220 grit to finish. The paper is mounted on a hardrubber sanding block. I've also tried using a spray adhesive to mount a strip of paper to a longerrigid aluminum sanding block (a little less than a foot long). I figured thelonger surface would help to even out the amount of material that wasbeingremoved over a longer section of the flat; similar to the concept of thelong base on a jointing plane. It was difficult to keep it flat on top ofthe flat though and it tended to lean to one side or the other, removingmore material on that side or even rounding an edge. I just returned from the hobby store where I found one of the Sup-rSandersmentioned on the supplies page of Rodmakers. It's a metal plate withcarbidegrit permanently glued to it, mounted in a plastic frame. It seems prettyrigid and feels light enough that rocking side to side shouldn't be aproblem. I'm going to give that a try tonight and see if it helps at all. Ifnot, it looks like I'm going to have to get a hold of a planing form andstart scraping again.---Timx11521 Tim;I use a Supr-Sander, the finest grit only(use the medium and coarse forroughing cork) and knock the roughed in strips flat with it, then finesand with 50micron (about 400 grit) to final finish. Then and only thendo I final plane my strips. i want a perfectly flat surface against theform and I want to see what the finished surface looks like, I don'tlike surprizes in a finished blank. To any of you who haven't used theMicron papers yet, try it, you'll like it. This stuff outlasts the blackjunk by 100-1. I have used the same piece in a rubber sanding block tosand the enamel off 18 rough strips then use the same piece to take allthe glue off a finished 2 tip blank.About the only thing i usae siliconcarbide paper for is sanding between varnish coats, the plastic backingon the micron paper is too stiff and even it loads up with varnish dustpretty quickly.John from captvonbek@earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 21:42:05 2000 e7O2g4G24522 TAA27146 Subject: Mica Strip Heater for Catanach Oven? Hi all, Well, I received my first bundle of Tonkin cane and have been practicingplaning splines to 60 degree angles. The planing goes rather well. Thesplitting of culms goes remarkably well until, as every author has pointedout, one begins to split those thirds into smaller strips. I want to thank Wayne, I received his book moments after my first bail fromDemarest, for spending text on the proper techniques for splitting cane.True, it come with practice, however I am delighted to have been able toread a step-by-step. I now have more than enough strips from one culm ( theleast of the bail) to practice with. It's early, but it's going well and Imay try for a rod out of it all. I made a workbench, crude but stable. Now, Since I am finishing theinitial planing, I need to make an oven. I like Wayne's oven and would haveno problem making one, save that I need a "mica strip heater-54" long. Iknow the manufacturer, but if someone would point out a retail source forthis strip heater, I would be grateful and will think of you as I heat myfirst bound strips of planed 60 degree tonkin cane. :) Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Aug 23 23:02:01 2000 e7O420G26285 Subject: Re: Mica Strip Heater for Catanach Oven? Frank - In the Sources you will find a listing for the mica strip heater -Grand Technologies - through a special agreement with Watlow - Jim and thefolks at Greand are allowed to sell the heater outside of their normal salesarea - and they stock it - or they should - So give them a call 616 - 656 -0866 and just ask for the heater to make bamboo rods with - they knowexactly what you are asking for Wayne ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mica Strip Heater for Catanach Oven? Hi all, Well, I received my first bundle of Tonkin cane and have been practicingplaning splines to 60 degree angles. The planing goes rather well. Thesplitting of culms goes remarkably well until, as every author has pointedout, one begins to split those thirds into smaller strips. I want to thank Wayne, I received his book moments after my first bailfromDemarest, for spending text on the proper techniques for splitting cane.True, it come with practice, however I am delighted to have been able toread a step-by-step. I now have more than enough strips from one culmtheleast of the bail) to practice with. It's early, but it's going well and Imay try for a rod out of it all. I made a workbench, crude but stable. Now, Since I am finishing theinitial planing, I need to make an oven. I like Wayne's oven and wouldhaveno problem making one, save that I need a "mica strip heater-54" long. Iknow the manufacturer, but if someone would point out a retail source forthis strip heater, I would be grateful and will think of you as I heat myfirst bound strips of planed 60 degree tonkin cane. :) Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from iank@ts.co.nz Wed Aug 23 23:41:37 2000 e7O4fYG27086 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal - sacred cows ? I guess it is time for a little bit of sacrilege. I always scrape off the enamel before the final planning , and give thesection a light sand after the scraping. I find it very difficult to get agood final strip unless the enamel side of the strip is perfectly flat , andthis is best obtained by scraping and sanding prior to final planning. There are two other comments however. I have used Resorcinol glue for mylast few rods. This is much easier to sand off after gluing then epoxy evenif it very revealing of any very small inconsistencies in the rod sectionand really shows up the flat that has turned in gluing and has the enamelside in !!) Secondly there was comment a few months ago regarding sanding the enamelside of rods , and glued up blanks. The effect of this was that in lookingat many old rods by good makers ( e.g. Hardy) it was apparent that the"sacred" surface fibres were often sanded back quite a lot and were wellexposed or removed. I recall there were suggestions that this was partly forthe appearance of the rods , and also that some very respected currentrodmakers readily stated they were not loath to take .002 or more off afacein a glued up blank if it was appropriate. I have sometimes adopted thispractise without any apparent detrimental affect on the finished rod. Maybe this is another sacred cow designed to confuse the new rodmakers ? Ian Kearney Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal from captvonbek@earthlink.net Wed Aug 23 23:46:31 2000 e7O4kUG27289 VAA16218 Subject: Re:re: Mica Strip heater for Catanach Oven Wayne, Thanks indeed. And, if I missed that in the text, whoops! I'm enjoying themaking and am trying to fit in the text somewhere between planing, washing,and eating. :) Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Aug 24 00:23:51 2000 e7O5NpG28360 Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:23:42 -0700 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Enamel FILETIME=[77D99FA0:01C00D8B] Almost all of the bevelers/mills index off of the enamel side of the strip. If it is not absolutely flat you cannnot get repeatable results. No matter how it is achieved the enamel side is the key to good strips. Aesthetic considerations are fine if they do not affect the outcome of what you are trying to achieve, if they do they are no longer aesthetic only. Having built alot of rods with three methods(hand planing, Leonard type beveler and Dickerson type mill) the easiest was the Garrison hand planing method. I have not used a Morgan mill but the principle is the same as the Dickerson beveler, carbide scrapers replacing carbide milling cutters.A.J.thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from timklein@uswest.net Thu Aug 24 00:37:24 2000 e7O5bOG28844 (63.225.127.101) Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Well, I just finished trying out the Sup-R Sander, and I'm not really thatimpressed. I'm using the "Fine" grit (supposedly equivalent to a 220 grit),but it seems to leave a much rougher finish than 220 grit paper. Lookingclosely at the carbide embedded in the Sup-R Sander, it appears that thereare more than a few clumps of grit on the surface. I ran out of "hidden" blank space (underneath the reelseat and grip), soI've returned to the rubber sanding block for the rest of the rod. Thanks toall who suggested finer sandpaper. It seems that many are starting at 220and going as fine as 600. My starting point of 150 grit is probablyexaggerating the problem so I think I'll start off finer; probably 220 gritand finish with 320 or 400. I'm not sure it's really necessary to go as fine as many of you are though.I've always stopped at 220 grit and I get a very nice finish. Making a thirdpass with 600 grit seems like overkill. If it works for you though... Thanks again for the suggestions! ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I use a Supr-Sander, the finest grit only(use the medium and coarse forroughing cork) and knock the roughed in strips flat with it, then finesand with 50micron (about 400 grit) to final finish. from timklein@uswest.net Thu Aug 24 01:02:22 2000 e7O62LG29400 (63.225.127.101) Subject: Re: Enamel Actually, the handmill is designed to work with the enamel on and doesn'trequire flattening of the enamel side. The strip sits on an "anvil" that hasa concave surface finish. You obviously have to have well prepped nodes, butthe curvature of the culm is accounted for by the concave finish on thepiece that supports the strip. If I do finally decide to scrape the enamel off prior to final dimensioning,I'll need to resurface the top of the anvil so that it's flat.---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Enamel Almost all of the bevelers/mills index off of the enamel side of thestrip.If it is not absolutely flat you cannnot get repeatable results. No matterhow it is achieved the enamel side is the key to good strips. Aestheticconsiderations are fine if they do not affect the outcome of what you aretrying to achieve, if they do they are no longer aesthetic only. Havingbuilt alot of rods with three methods(hand planing, Leonard type bevelerandDickerson type mill) the easiest was the Garrison hand planing method. Ihave not used a Morgan mill but the principle is the same as the Dickersonbeveler, carbide scrapers replacing carbide milling cutters.A.J.thramer ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from frank@fneunemann.com Thu Aug 24 01:02:37 2000 e7O62aG29461 0700 23:01:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Hollow Built Doug, Have built both a solid rod and hollowed out rod of equal tapers with therods both coming from the same culm and the strips mixed so that strips inthe rod were alternated from the culm.The rods performed about the same except that the hollow rod would notcastquite as far as the solid rod. This lead me to the conclusion that for thesame action, hollow rods must be a tad larger in OD.Tom Morgan and I were talking about this last week. His experience wassimilar. Don is absolutely right. Hollow rods tend to develop an oval crossectionwhen they get a strong bend which in turn results in a loss of bendingstrength--its just plain physics. To compensate for that an increase indiameter is necessary. Frank ---------------------------------------------------- FNeunemann@compuserve.comfrank@fneunemann.comhttp:/www.fneunemann.com---------------------------------------------------- from bh887@lafn.org Thu Aug 24 02:22:06 2000 e7O7M5G00612 forged)) "'Rodmakers List'" Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I certainly agree with George on the grit usage. Ending with 220 grit maybe okay for some hard wood applications, but not for the fine grainmaterials. I would keep sanding with finer grits. Finish with at least600. I think you will find the feathering is gone. And George is alsoquite right about keeping a steady and FLAT hand on the block. All too easyto round off the edges. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'm thinking that perhaps you are starting with too rough a grit. Such arough grit would need to be used only straight up and down with the grain,as any across the grain motion would cut too deeply into the surface.Sanding on a level plane is acquired, and takes time to develop, so that arocking motion doesn't persist. I like Harry's second wrapping, to avoidallot of glue having to be removed, as this may be the thing that'scausingmuch of the problem. I'm certainly no authority on cane, but have done allot of work withepoxiesand soft balsa wood. When you have hard epoxy, you must chip away theexcess, before you can sand decent shapes over a glue line, and it takesgentle patience to get it right. I do agree, it seems scraping the glueawayfirst is in order, before starting to sand with perhaps 220 the coarsestused, and only at first. I'd sure like to hear from you guys who have allot more experience withthistask. GMA from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Aug 24 05:49:44 2000 e7OAngG02775 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Organization: vet George Is the Lie-Nielsen scraper worth "all those bucks"? You betcha!!! Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "Many men go fishing all their lives without realisingthat it is not fish they are after." Henry David Thoreau----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'm wondering about the type of sandpaper, and the grit you are using Tim.After filing the nodes, and getting roughed out strips, it seems thatcareful block sanding should produce a nice even surface. I'd think aprogression from a med. grit on down to finer grit would do this ? What are you others using to scrape with ? I have a couple of old toolsteeljointer blades, that I've used with excellent results. I wish I could tryaLie Nielsen just to see if it's worth all those bucks ? GMA> from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Aug 24 08:26:04 2000 e7ODQ3G05750 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 07:57:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Enamel I don't think you need to do this. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Aug 24 08:29:50 2000 e7ODTnG05954 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:00:10 -0500 "'Rodmakers List'" Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal The best of any top grade finish begins with what's done at the start. Poorfinish underneath, is hard to cover up at the last coat ! GMA from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Aug 24 09:28:26 2000 e7OESPG07944 Aug 2000 10:28:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I use a Morgan Handmill. I plane and scrape the enamel side flat at the roughing stage. 320 is the finest sandpaper I use for sanding a blank. Are these the best methods? Probably not, but they work for me. Darryl from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Aug 24 11:09:09 2000 e7OG99G11185 aerynsun.acxiom.com for;Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:15:57 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: Record Bow? Here's a fun article from today's paper - especially for folks thinking ofthe SRG. A 15 yr. old girl recently went fishing on the North Fork River with JackWilson, captain of the US Youth Fly Fishing Team. She was a beginner, and landed a probable record rainbow (19.1 lbs., 6x tippet) and 15 minutes later landed a15 pounder. Then said, very nonchalantly, "I feel like I've had a good day" and quit! Someday, maybe she will look back and appreciate who she was with as muchasthe day she had!!! Unfortunately, the internet post does not carry the picture. http://www.ardemgaz.com/today/spt/cobowmantroutstory.html Cheers, from tklein@amgen.com Thu Aug 24 11:48:12 2000 e7OGmBG12548 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Wow! You sand at the quarters stage? Don't you drop well into the power fibers this way? Or do you try to followthe curvature of the culm when sanding?---Tim ---------- Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 5:33 PM Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal .... 4. Split the halves into quarters5. Sand off enamel .... from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Aug 24 12:24:38 2000 e7OHObG14032 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: SRG 2000 fishing opportunities Friends,Those of you planning to attend this year's Southern RodmakersGathering might be interested in the quality fishing in that area. MarkEvans forwarded this link to me -- and I thought some of you might beinterested. Heck, I thought you all would be interested! How many ofyou have caught 34 pounds of rainbow in just two casts?? http://www.ardemgaz.com/today/spt/cobowmantroutstory.html Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from iank@ts.co.nz Thu Aug 24 14:15:27 2000 e7OJFPG17751 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Tim, I do not always sand back the glued up blank and I generally aim to avoiddoing so. However an examination of the rods of some well known rodmakersofthe past suggests that they did as part of their building process. If youlook at some of these rods you will see the power fibres are very exposedand have obviously been sanded ( or planned) back. There have beensuggestions that a number of these rodmakers used sanding or planning oftheblanks to form the final tapers of different models. This protection of the power fibres may be what leads to the view that rodsbuilt by craftsmen ( and women) today are better then many of the rods ofthe past . Alternatively it may be that it is one of those sacred cowsestablished by Garrison and which has grown in size since. It would beunwise to ignore the advise in most of the excellent books on rodmaking andtherefore the power fibres should be protected if possible. However mysomewhat inexpert view is that if you are using good quality cane with agood depth of power fibres then judicious use of a sanding block or finallyset scraper on the finished blankif required is not the end of the world. Iwould not go as far as saying it is ok to use a plane on the finished blank, but I know some would. This is just my 2 cents worth , and as the NZ $ has plunged to 43 cents tothe US $ in the last few days , so it may not be worth a lot. regards Ian Kearney----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Wow! You sand at the quarters stage? Don't you drop well into the power fibers this way? Or do you try tofollowthe curvature of the culm when sanding?---Tim ---------- Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 5:33 PM Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal .... 4. Split the halves into quarters5. Sand off enamel .... from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Aug 24 15:30:00 2000 e7OKTxG20840 Subject: Spray finish Hello to all I was wondering if any of you spray finish your rods. I have been thinking about getting a HVLP spraying system. I would love to her some of your results with spraying.T.I.AJoe from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Aug 24 15:30:55 2000 e7OKUsG20957 Subject: Spray Finish How many of you spray finish your rods, I am thinking about trying a HVLP spraying system,and was wondering what the results have been for otherswho have or do spray rodsJoe from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Aug 24 17:15:57 2000 e7OMFuG25071 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:17:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Record Bow? Good grief ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Aug 24 18:01:00 2000 e7ON0xG26330 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:02:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Spray Finish I'm looking at the same type of gear, but have used a normal air brush withexcellent results. The trick is to get the varnish the proper consistency,and to not try to put on too much. Several light coats are better than oneor two heavy type. I fill the wraps with several brushed, thin coats first,sanding with 1200 W. or D. between coats, but only after the 3rd. coat hasdried well. GMA from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Aug 24 18:01:05 2000 e7ON14G26353 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I use a small sanding block and move up and down the culm. There's nodifference between sanding this way and sanding smaller split strips sincethe area being sanded on each pass is the same. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:46 PM Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal Wow! You sand at the quarters stage? Don't you drop well into the power fibers this way? Or do youtry to followthe curvature of the culm when sanding?---Tim ---------- Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 5:33 PM Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal .... 4. Split the halves into quarters5. Sand off enamel .... from oakmere@carol.net Thu Aug 24 18:17:52 2000 e7ONHpG26865 Subject: RE: Question Hi Folks: Ran into a bamboo rod this summer in very good shape which include the rodsock and metal case. It had written on script on the butt - "GatewayDeluxe" . The rod sock had a label of Gateway Sporting Goods, Kansas City,MO. It was a 3 piece, 2 tip 9 footer. Anyway, I did not acquire it but amcurious if anyone knows who may have made this rod. It was priced at $275.Any thoughts? Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Aug 24 18:26:49 2000 e7ONQmG27184 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:26:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Question The ferrules can often be a direct clue, but it could have been Heddon, H-I,of Montague ? GMA from tklein@amgen.com Thu Aug 24 19:07:49 2000 e7P07mG27974 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal All, from the response to my question, it seems many makers are less thanthrilled with their sanding efforts. I received a reply from Terry Kirkpatrick that included a link to a drawingof his solution for keeping a sanding block from rocking side to side. Idon't think the message was copied to the list, so I wanted to forward alink to his drawing: http://home1.gte.net/sats/FF/build/Tools/tools.html Some of you may have seen something like this before but it was completelynew to me. Maybe it'll help some of the other "sanding impaired" members ofthe list. Thanks again Terry!---Tim from vfish@vfish.net Thu Aug 24 20:33:23 2000 e7P1XNG00008 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:33:14 -0500 Subject: RE: Question Looked in my 1941 Gateway catalog and found the Gateway DeLuxe rod...Regularly priced at $9.75, on sale for only $4.95. from the drawing itappears to be an H-I... Around an Ike Walton Grade rod. Gateway also sold quality rods as well such as the Granger Special on sale probably Phillipson but this catalog is too old... Bottom line... that rod is probably grossly overpriced. You might also be able to get answers by posting unknown rods on the "NameThat Rod Forum" at: www.vfish.net/namethatrod.htm appropriately named??? Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Question Hi Folks: Ran into a bamboo rod this summer in very good shape which include the rodsock and metal case. It had written on script on the butt - "GatewayDeluxe" . The rod sock had a label of Gateway Sporting Goods, Kansas City,MO. It was a 3 piece, 2 tip 9 footer. Anyway, I did not acquire it but amcurious if anyone knows who may have made this rod. It was priced at $275.Any thoughts? Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from mep@mint.net Thu Aug 24 20:44:21 2000 e7P1iKG00396 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:43:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'll second that! Mike petermckean wrote: George Is the Lie-Nielsen scraper worth "all those bucks"? You betcha!!! Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "Many men go fishing all their lives without realisingthat it is not fish they are after." Henry David Thoreau----- Original Message -----From: "nobler" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:42 AMSubject: Re: Handmill Users - Enamel Removal I'm wondering about the type of sandpaper, and the grit you are usingTim.After filing the nodes, and getting roughed out strips, it seems thatcareful block sanding should produce a nice even surface. I'd think aprogression from a med. grit on down to finer grit would do this ? What are you others using to scrape with ? I have a couple of old toolsteeljointer blades, that I've used with excellent results. I wish I could tryaLie Nielsen just to see if it's worth all those bucks ? GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Aug 24 21:10:03 2000 e7P2A2G01103 0000 (204.186.33.37) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Question The only "Gateway" fly rod I have examined was made by South Bend. Thereare very few "production " 9' rods that would fetch that kind of money.Marty Hi Folks: Ran into a bamboo rod this summer in very good shape which include therodsock and metal case. It had written on script on the butt - "GatewayDeluxe" . The rod sock had a label of Gateway Sporting Goods, Kansas City,MO. It was a 3 piece, 2 tip 9 footer. Anyway, I did not acquire it but amcurious if anyone knows who may have made this rod. It was priced at$275.Any thoughts? Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from HalManas@aol.com Thu Aug 24 21:47:09 2000 e7P2l8G01946 Subject: Review Rodmakers Hi all,On the 17th, Claude Freaner sent an e-mail to the list suggesting that we check from time to time to see who is on the list. The gist of it is that you e-mail listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and put the words review rodmakers in the body. I did this and all I received was an e-mail saying "unknown list name Rodmakers." Does anyone know what I did wrong? Thanks in advance, Hal from martinj@aa.net Thu Aug 24 22:35:40 2000 e7P3ZdG03020 Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:35:36 -0700 Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers I hope this isn't true. I don't really want to have my name associated withsome list. It would be too easy for it to be used for marketing. If someoneknows that this can really happen please let me know so I can unsubscribeasap! I don't mind individual members knowing who I am but a list for anyoneto take and use is not in my best interests. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Review Rodmakers Hi all,On the 17th, Claude Freaner sent an e-mail to the list suggesting thatwecheck from time to time to see who is on the list. The gist of it is thatyou e-mail listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and put the words review rodmakers inthe body. I did this and all I received was an e-mail saying "unknown listname Rodmakers." Does anyone know what I did wrong? Thanks in advance, Hal from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Aug 24 22:40:41 2000 e7P3eeG03304 20:48:08 PDT Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers yes, it is true but i would really hate for you to go.maybe this can be changed. timothy --- Martin Jensen wrote:I hope this isn't true. I don't really want to havemy name associated withsome list. It would be too easy for it to be used knows that this can really happen please let me knowso I can unsubscribeasap! I don't mind individual members knowing who Iam but a list for anyoneto take and use is not in my best interests. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of HalManas@aol.comSent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:47 PM Subject: Review Rodmakers Hi all,On the 17th, Claude Freaner sent an e-mail tothe list suggesting thatwecheck from time to time to see who is on the list. The gist of it is thatyou e-mail listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and put thewords review rodmakers inthe body. I did this and all I received was ane-mail saying "unknown listname Rodmakers." Does anyone know what I did wrong? Thanks in advance, Hal ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Aug 24 22:41:10 2000 e7P3f9G03379 Subject: Morgan hand mill... All, some time ago, (a couple of years, I guess) there was some discussionabout the Morgan hand mill. I'd like to know how the folks who bought ithave made out, and whether or not they are satisfied with the product. I'mconsidering getting one. Please comment either on or off list. Thanks,Roger from rodsmiths@imt.net Thu Aug 24 23:16:02 2000 e7P4G0G04206 Organization: Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, Ltd. Subject: Hand Mill & enamel Hello, I have read the letters about the enamel removal on bamboo blanks andthought that I would offer my experience and some of the reasons thatthe Hand Mill is set up the way it is. When I first started working with bamboo blanks at Winston we used ascraper, a flint sandpaper, a garnet sandpaper of about 280 grit, andsteel wool to finish the blanks. We did this for a number of years.The blanks were held on the bench with a cam device that would hold themfirmly and made it easier to sand them. The scraper was made from afile that had all the grooves ground off so that it was smooth. Thismade for a long scraper that you could hold on both ends to control itsspeed and movement. Initially, the scraper was used to knock most ofthe residual glue off after the binding string was removed. Then, afterthe glue was knocked off most of the enamel was scraped off using thescraper. It took some time to learn to use the scraper or you would getchatter marks in the bamboo. All of our bamboo was cut on a milling machine using first high speedsteel cutters and then after I was there a couple of years carbide. Wesanded the node area flat and left the enamel on the entire blank. Wethought that leaving the enamel on was a benefit because the glue didn'tstick well to the enamel and was easy to clean off. After looking at many sections we decided that there should be a betterway to clean them and to get a more consistent sanding job. We finallyresolved that for us we would scrape off the excess glue without reallycutting into the enamel. We then took a rubber (somewhat soft &flexible) block that you can purchase in most hardware stores and usedit. This block is about 5" long. This type of block has grooves onboth ends that the sandpaper fits into to hold it. We then took a culmof bamboo, wrapped sandpaper around it, and sanded a radius into thebottom of the rubber block running lengthwise. We could then sand theblanks while maintaining close to the original radius. On the larger diameters the curve of the bamboo adds substantial area toa rod and we took this radius into account on dimensions. By sanding inthis manner we also maintained as much of the surface fibers as possiblenot only for strength but also for aesthetic beauty. We would start sanding with a medium grit flint paper that is quiteclosed grain and I don't remember the grit but it wasn't real course.We would sand the blanks until there was a "haze" of enamel along theblank. Then we would sand with 280 or 320 garnet sandpaper beingcareful to try and hold the sanding block level. By running yourfingers and thumb down each side of the block you could keep it leveland consistent. I'm sure that the process of cleaning a lot of blankshelped with consistency. We would then clean them with steel wool beingcareful on the tips to only work away from the butt. If you try and goback and forth you can catch the tip and break it off before you knowit! When you are working with bamboo this way you have to have a scraperhandy to check each strip before final tapering to make sure that therearen't any blemishes hiding under the enamel. We found that the sections were very accurate to the correct dimensionand varied very little from flat to flat. I can't fairly tell you nowjust what the variance was because it has been too long a time since Iworked with the bamboo. I do believe with some practice and sandpaperthat isn't too coarse you can get consistent results that are accurate. When I started the Hand Mill project I put a radius of 7/8" on top ofthe anvils. In thinking back the reason I did this was that we alwayshad a radius on the anvil assembly on the milling machine. It alsoallowed for a disk that sandpaper could be affixed to in order to finaltrue the anvils prior to finish milling of strips. After reading many of the letters I can also see the benefit of removingthe enamel before final planing or milling as long as the final sandingto remove the glue doesn't change the dimensions. No matter which wayit is done there is no question but that the enamel (or that surface)must certainly be flat particularly in the node area. Regardless ofhow the strips are cut we are all looking to produce a rod blank that isconsistent, to the correct dimension, and one that is aestheticallypleasing. I learned long ago that there are many ways to do a particular job andthat each is right for the person doing it. I know a lot about how wedid bamboo at Winston but I continually learn different methods andprocedures for doing the same process from others. That's part of whatmakes bamboo rodmaking so much fun. I hope my letter has shed somelight on what we did and why the Hand Mill was set up the way it is. Thanks,Tom Morgan from esavage@parkerduryee.com Fri Aug 25 02:30:25 2000 e7P7UOG07229 Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers Martin: Although your concerns may be justified, I have a suggestion as to how youmay be able to avoid the potential problem - assuming that you primaryconcern is that you will get bombarded with advertisements that will clog upyou e-mail. Just sign up for one of the free e-mail services (e.g., Juno,Yahoo, Hotmail, among others - though you probably would not want to choseYahoo, since it has only limited capacity - unless you pay a fee - whichwould soon be consumed with the amount of Rodmaker e-mails that tend toget that you start getting excessive unwanted e-mails at that e-mail address,just cancel that e-mail address and set up another. Admittedly, this mightnot be a perfect solution, since you would probably not be set up to getinstant notification of e-mails arriving to your new free e-mail address,but I would like to think it would be a far better alternative thanunsubscribing from Rodmakers. Actually, I'm planning to set up a separate Hotmail e-mail account for useas my Rodmakers' e-mail address while I am away on a month-long vacation - Idon't want to miss some of the tips and insights that I suspect will becommunicated during the month I am away, but I don't want all of thosee- mails clogging up my primary e-mail address (which goes to my computer inthe office). Hope you stay on Rodmakers and that neither you nor any of the othercontributors get scared off. Ed Savage [esavage@parkerduryee.com] P.S. To the extent that you have a well-recognized "handle" or nickname aspart of your current e-mail address, there is probably a good chance you canuse the same "handle" or nickname as the lead-in to your new e-mail address(such as "martinj@aa.net" also has an e-mail address atmartinj@hotmail.com"). Actually, exclusive of my office address, I now havethree free e-mail addresses that are essentially the same:savagelawyer@yahoo.com; savagelawyer@juno.com; andsavagelawyer@hotmail.com. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers I hope this isn't true. I don't really want to have my name associated withsome list. It would be too easy for it to be used for marketing. If someoneknows that this can really happen please let me know so I can unsubscribeasap! I don't mind individual members knowing who I am but a list for anyoneto take and use is not in my best interests. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Review Rodmakers Hi all,On the 17th, Claude Freaner sent an e-mail to the list suggesting thatwecheck from time to time to see who is on the list. The gist of it is thatyou e-mail listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and put the words review rodmakers inthe body. I did this and all I received was an e-mail saying "unknown listname Rodmakers." Does anyone know what I did wrong? Thanks in advance, Hal from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 25 05:31:03 2000 e7PAV2G09592 Subject: Re: Morgan hand mill... --=====================_836115==_.ALT It is a fantastic unit that I am glad I bought. I would be glad to help with any questions you have. Believe me, the first rod you build will have a real wow factor. I enjoyed hand planing, but this has so much more potential. I am still marveling over the quads it has produced so far.Best regards,Bob At 08:47 PM 8/24/00 -0700, you wrote:All, some time ago, (a couple of years, I guess) there was some discussionabout the Morgan hand mill. I'd like to know how the folks who bought ithave made out, and whether or not they are satisfied with the product. I'mconsidering getting one. Please comment either on or off list. Thanks,Roger Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_836115==_.ALT It is a fantastic unit that I am glad I bought. I would be glad to helpwith any questions you have. Believe me, the first rod you build willhave a real wow factor. I enjoyed hand planing, but this has so much morepotential. I am still marveling over the quads it has produced sofar.Best regards,Bob At 08:47 PM 8/24/00 -0700, you wrote:All, some time ago, (a couple of years, Iguess) there was some discussion bought ithave made out, and whether or not they are satisfied with the considering getting one. Please comment either on or off list. Thanks,Roger Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_836115==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Aug 25 08:43:59 2000 e7PDhwG13477 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:41:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Review Rodmakers Hitting the delete button is so easy, and QUICK ! SPAM GOES OUT FAST THISWAY ! GMA from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Aug 25 09:01:44 2000 e7PE1hG14358 JAA19280 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:01:42 Subject: Re: Review Rodmakers If someone does not want their subscription to RODMAKERS public(ie. their name and email address) just sent to this addresslistproc@wugate.wustl.eduthis messageset rodmakers conceal yes I tried it and it works as advertized.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Aug 25 09:12:03 2000 e7PEC2G14852 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:13:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Hand Mill & enamel Thanks for that Tom ! It's a neat account of how one of the best did it ! GMA from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Fri Aug 25 09:16:37 2000 e7PEGaG15153 Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers Martin writes...I hope this isn't true. I don't really want to have my name associated withsome list. It would be too easy for it to be used for marketing. If someoneknows that this can really happen please let me know so I can unsubscribeasap! I don't mind individual members knowing who I am but a list for anyoneto take and use is not in my best interests. Okay folks, first of all the list is set up so that only subscribers can doa REVIEW of the list. Hopefully there is no one on the list that wouldstoop so low as to sell our subscription list. Of course there is nothingstopping some low-life from subscribing to the list just to get a list ofsubscribers, and then going away. listproc@mail.wustl.edu In the body of the message put: SET RODMAKERS CONCEAL YES Once the command is processed, your name will no longer show up in the listof subscribers. Everything else though will remain as before. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from aklul@yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 09:30:11 2000 e7PEUAG15904 2000 07:30:04 PDT Subject: Bamboo ferrule Greetings Rodmakers List Friends!I have been lurking on list for long time but sawsometing interest. Look towww.fries-rods.dk/bfrods.htmand see bamboo ferrule like Sir D talk about. Nice!Aklul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Aug 25 10:38:41 2000 e7PFceG18951 Aug 2000 11:38:25 -0400 Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule Well, I guess the cat's out of the bag. Aklu works at the same place I do - andI showed him the site. Mark Metcalf - if he ever gets the magazine up again -was going to do an article on the ferrule and asked me not to say anythingabout it. Not your fault Aklu, I didn't mention this when when I showed youthe site. Please be kind to Aklu, English isn't his primary language.Darryl from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Aug 25 10:53:35 2000 e7PFrXG19635 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Bamboo Ferrule Don't worry Aklu, the URL was posted to the List a couple a weeks ago.... regardsdanny From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:38:25 EDT Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule Well, I guess the cat's out of the bag. Aklu works at the same place I do -and I showed him the site. Mark Metcalf - if he ever gets the magazine upagain - was going to do an article on the ferrule and asked me not to sayanything about it. Not your fault Aklu, I didn't mention this when when Ishowed you the site. Please be kind to Aklu, English isn't his primarylanguage.Darryl from anglport@con2.com Fri Aug 25 11:00:10 2000 e7PG09G20045 Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers All,I don't know how long this list has been in existence, but I've been on it being targeted here. I get very lttle, and usually I have just donesomethng OTHER than sitting here that I felt led me to being spammed.Unless you're in the witness protection plan or have some otheroverridingreason for Privacy (with a capital "P"), I don't think you have a reason toworry about this group! Art At 09:16 AM 08/25/2000 -0500, Mike Biondo wrote:Martin writes...I hope this isn't true. I don't really want to have my name associated withsome list. It would be too easy for it to be used for marketing. If someoneknows that this can really happen please let me know so I can unsubscribeasap! I don't mind individual members knowing who I am but a list foranyoneto take and use is not in my best interests. Okay folks, first of all the list is set up so that only subscribers can doa REVIEW of the list. Hopefully there is no one on the list that wouldstoop so low as to sell our subscription list. Of course there is nothingstopping some low-life from subscribing to the list just to get a list ofsubscribers, and then going away. listproc@mail.wustl.edu In the body of the message put: SET RODMAKERS CONCEAL YES Once the command is processed, your name will no longer show up in the listof subscribers. Everything else though will remain as before. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Fri Aug 25 11:39:04 2000 e7PGd3G21818 Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule Darryl writes... Well, I guess the cat's out of the bag. Aklu works at the same place I do- and I showed him the site. Mark Metcalf - if he ever gets the magazine upagain - was going to do an article on the ferrule and asked me not to sayanything about it. Not your fault Aklu, I didn't mention this when when Ishowed you the site. Just curious Darryl, why on earth would Mark, or anyone for that matter,want to keep this a secret. It seems to me that in doing so, it is doing agreat dis-service to Mr. Fries, not to mention going against the spirit ofthe open sharing of information that has always existed on this list. Mike- from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Aug 25 11:44:02 2000 e7PGi1G22132 Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule Glad you said it Mike.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule Darryl writes... Well, I guess the cat's out of the bag. Aklu works at the same place I do- and I showed him the site. Mark Metcalf - if he ever gets the magazine upagain - was going to do an article on the ferrule and asked me not to sayanything about it. Not your fault Aklu, I didn't mention this when when Ishowed you the site. Just curious Darryl, why on earth would Mark, or anyone for that matter,want to keep this a secret. It seems to me that in doing so, it is doing agreat dis-service to Mr. Fries, not to mention going against the spirit ofthe open sharing of information that has always existed on this list. Mike- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Aug 25 11:48:06 2000 e7PGm6G22478 Subject: Re: Bamboo Ferrule Hey I posted this URL to the list about two months ago. This is nothing new!Joe from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Aug 25 12:17:05 2000 e7PHH4G23903 Aug 2000 13:16:55 -0400 Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule I don't know....I guess he thinks that it will erode his readership if his magazine is thesecond place people see things like this. I did say the same thing as youmention when he asked me not to say anything about the ferrule on this list,with Mr. Fries's web page being openly wiewable on the internet already. Iagree with you whole-heartedly about sharing information on this list.Darryl from tklein@amgen.com Fri Aug 25 12:32:09 2000 e7PHW9G24541 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Bamboo Ferrule Not to be snide here, but at the rate things are going his magazine is theLAST place anyone is going to see something like this.---Tim ---------- Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule I don't know....I guess he thinks that it will erode his readership if his magazine is thesecond place people see things like this. I did say the same thing as youmention when he asked me not to say anything about the ferrule on thislist, with Mr. Fries's web page being openly wiewable on the internetalready. I agree with you whole-heartedly about sharing information onthis list.Darryl from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 12:45:24 2000 e7PHjNG25138 10:45:22 PDT Subject: RE: Bamboo Ferrule does anyone have the real scoop on the mag? i gottenthree or more contradictory stories from him. i wishthe mag would do well. i liked it. timothy --- "Klein, Tim" wrote:Not to be snide here, but at the rate things aregoing his magazine is theLAST place anyone is going to see something likethis.--- Tim ----------From: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule I don't know....I guess he thinks that it will erode hisreadership if his magazine is thesecond place people see things like this. I didsay the same thing as youmention when he asked me not to say anything aboutthe ferrule on thislist, with Mr. Fries's web page being openlywiewable on the internetalready. I agree with you whole-heartedly aboutsharing information onthis list.Darryl ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Aug 25 12:48:56 2000 e7PHmtG25417 Aug 2000 13:48:31 -0400 Subject: RE: Bamboo Ferrule I'm having a hard time disagreeing with you at this point. I'm perhaps one ofhis staunchest supporters, and even I am beginning to wonder.Darryl ---------- Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule I don't know....I guess he thinks that it will erode his readership if his magazine is thesecond place people see things like this. I did say the same thing as youmention when he asked me not to say anything about the ferrule on thislist, with Mr. Fries's web page being openly wiewable on the internetalready. I agree with you whole-heartedly about sharing information onthis list.Darryl from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 13:22:02 2000 e7PIM1G26976 2000 11:20:10 PDT Subject: How many issues of BFR were there? I know, I know...this is our absolute FAVORITE topic (not), but I wasjust reorganizing the other night and ran across my BFR issues. Ibought the first one at a flysop and got 2 or 3 more by subscription.How many were published in total?? --- DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I'm having a hard time disagreeing with you at this point. I'mperhaps one of his staunchest supporters, and even I am beginningto wonder.Darryl magazine is theLAST place anyone is going to see something like this.---Tim ---------- Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule I don't know....I guess he thinks that it will erode his readership if hismagazine is thesecond place people see things like this. I did say the samething as youmention when he asked me not to say anything about the ferrule onthislist, with Mr. Fries's web page being openly wiewable on theinternetalready. I agree with you whole-heartedly about sharinginformation onthis list.Darryl __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 13:26:06 2000 e7PIQ5G27280 11:34:28 PDT Subject: Re: How many issues of BFR were there? that's one of the contradictory stories. timothy --- Jerry Madigan wrote:I know, I know...this is our absolute FAVORITE topic(not), but I wasjust reorganizing the other night and ran across myBFR issues. Ibought the first one at a flysop and got 2 or 3 more How many were published in total?? --- DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I'm having a hard time disagreeing with you atthis point. I'mperhaps one of his staunchest supporters, and evenI am beginningto wonder.Darryl are going hismagazine is theLAST place anyone is going to see something likethis.---Tim ----------From: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule I don't know....I guess he thinks that it will erode hisreadership if hismagazine is thesecond place people see things like this. I didsay the samething as youmention when he asked me not to say anythingabout the ferrule onthislist, with Mr. Fries's web page being openlywiewable on theinternetalready. I agree with you whole-heartedly aboutsharinginformation onthis list.Darryl __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access fromanywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from djk762@hotmail.com Fri Aug 25 14:07:34 2000 e7PJ7XG28921 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:07:27 -0700 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: How Many BFR FILETIME=[B5A823F0:01C00EC7] Rodmakers- I have five BFM issues. -David Kashuba.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Aug 25 14:20:51 2000 e7PJKnG29530 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:20:47 +0100 Subject: Re: How Many BFR and I never got one, how unfair...........Paul David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers- I have five BFM issues. -David Kashuba. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from djk762@hotmail.com Fri Aug 25 14:32:13 2000 e7PJWCG00116 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:32:06 -0700 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Cleaning Guides FILETIME=[273A0E40:01C00ECB] Rodmakers- I picked up a cool old agate or agatine guide in an antique shop last week. What is the best way to clean it? TIA. -David Kashuba.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Aug 25 15:05:34 2000 e7PK5XG02029 Subject: Re: How many issues of BFR were thre? Believe it to be 5 - or at least we have 5 issues. Vol 1, No. 1, January/February, l998; Vol 1 No. 2, March/April, 1998; Vol 1, No. 3, May/June, l998; Vol 1 No. 4, July/August, l998; Vol l, No. 5/6, Sept/Oct & Nov/Dec, l998 Harold and Eileen Demarest from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Aug 25 16:21:02 2000 e7PLL1G05120 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:18:56 -0500 Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule This was posted months ago, on our list, so it's far from new ! GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Aug 25 17:10:18 2000 e7PMAHG07112 0000 (204.186.33.9) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Cleaning Guides I like to drop it in laquer thinner for an hour and use a Dremmel toolwith a brush to polish it.Marty Rodmakers- I picked up a cool old agate or agatine guide in an antique shop lastweek. What is the best way to clean it? TIA. -David Kashuba. ________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Aug 25 18:26:14 2000 e7PNQDG09212 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:26:03 -0400 "RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Cleaning Guides David A couple of minutes in an ultrasonic cleaner will do the job Chris]On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:32:06 PDT, David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers- I picked up a cool old agate or agatine guide in an antique shop last week. What is the best way to clean it? TIA. -David Kashuba.________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from martinj@aa.net Fri Aug 25 20:28:10 2000 e7Q1S9G11849 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:28:07 -0700 Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers Thanks Mike and All. I do my best to prevent receiving Spam. It seems like afull time job but it is now manageable. I breathed into a paper bag forseveral minutes and have calmed down now. I have not ever gotten any Spamthat was associated with this list and I have been on it for quite a fewyears now so I will just wait and see. Sorry to all for coming ungluedthere. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers Martin writes...I hope this isn't true. I don't really want to have my name associated withsome list. It would be too easy for it to be used for marketing. If someoneknows that this can really happen please let me know so I can unsubscribeasap! I don't mind individual members knowing who I am but a list foranyoneto take and use is not in my best interests. Okay folks, first of all the list is set up so that only subscribers can doa REVIEW of the list. Hopefully there is no one on the list that wouldstoop so low as to sell our subscription list. Of course there is nothingstopping some low-life from subscribing to the list just to get a list ofsubscribers, and then going away. listproc@mail.wustl.edu In the body of the message put: SET RODMAKERS CONCEAL YES Once the command is processed, your name will no longer show up in the listof subscribers. Everything else though will remain as before. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 20:43:05 2000 e7Q1h4G12250 18:46:43 PDT all, there has been some discussion in the passedabout matt finishes on rods. i recall that someonewas rubbing down the final coat with pumas or rubbingcompound or steel wool or something. could someonerefresh my memory please? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from anglport@con2.com Fri Aug 25 20:50:00 2000 e7Q1nxG12487 Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers Sorry to all for coming ungluedthere. Martin Jensen Martin,We can fix that; you want Resorcinal, Epon, Nyatex, or poly?;^)Art from anglport@con2.com Fri Aug 25 21:00:51 2000 e7Q20nG12824 Subject: Re: Timothy,I use rottenstone and baby oil, applied with a block of wood, faced with1/4" (I think it's called "piano") felt. I do the same number of wipes oneach flat, end-to-end.Be prepared to deal with the varnishing of the guides afterward though,where it gets real tricky not to get a sloppy "edge" on each wrap! I thinkI may have finally solved that one, but the jury is still out (I'mfinishing two as I type this). I've never tried to rub up and over thewraps with the abrasive.Art At 06:46 PM 08/25/2000 -0700, timothy troester wrote:all, there has been some discussion in the passedabout matt finishes on rods. i recall that someonewas rubbing down the final coat with pumas or rubbingcompound or steel wool or something. could someonerefresh my memory please? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from martinj@aa.net Fri Aug 25 22:40:51 2000 e7Q3eoG15199 Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:40:47 -0700 Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers Resorcinol please, on the rocks...Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Review Rodmakers Sorry to all for coming ungluedthere. Martin Jensen Martin,We can fix that; you want Resorcinal, Epon, Nyatex, or poly?;^)Art from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Aug 26 02:13:20 2000 e7Q7DJG18587 Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:13:13 -0700 Sat, 26 Aug 2000 GMT Subject: Re: FILETIME=[192CDF50:01C00F2D] From: timothy troester all, there has been some discussion in the passedabout matt finishes on rods. i recall that someonewas rubbing down the final coat with pumas or rubbingcompound or steel wool or something. could someonerefresh my memory please? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ I use linseed oil and either rottenstone if I want a semi gloss or brighter finish and pumice and linseed oil if I want a truly matt finish. I apply it with my bare fingers.A.J.Thramer________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Aug 26 07:31:12 2000 e7QCVBG21999 +0100 Subject: Bait Casting Tapers Hi all,I am trying to get hold of some bait casting tapers from single handedbamboo trigger/pistol grip rods at around 5', 5' 6" length to throw say1/4 , 3/8 and 1/2 oz lures.A Hardy Jock Scot taper would be particularly welcome?........And ......if anyone has any old aluminium pistol/trigger typebait casting handles for sale or trade please contact me off the list.Many thanks........Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 26 07:43:51 2000 e7QChnG22232 Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:41:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Bait Casting Tapers The Charles K. Fox book on light lure casting, has a great taper for such arod. I can send it out of the book if you don't have it. I noted the bookwas out of print now, and valued at $75 ! GMA from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Aug 26 07:51:17 2000 e7QCpGG22407 Subject: Re: Bait Casting Tapers Paul,The Herter's extract on my site has quite a number of different baitcasting tapers.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "paul.blakley" wrote: Hi all,I am trying to get hold of some bait casting tapers from single handedbamboo trigger/pistol grip rods at around 5', 5' 6" length to throw say1/4 , 3/8 and 1/2 oz lures.A Hardy Jock Scot taper would be particularly welcome?........And ......if anyone has any old aluminium pistol/trigger typebait casting handles for sale or trade please contact me off the list.Many thanks........Paul from bob@downandacross.com Sat Aug 26 08:15:43 2000 e7QDFhG23750 Subject: Re: Bait Casting Tapers --=====================_1211184==_.ALT Did you see the Herter's stuff on Reed's site. http:www.overmywaders.comI remember an EC Powell and another on the list, but I don't seem to have them in my computer anymore.Bob Hi all,I am trying to get hold of some bait casting tapers from single handedbamboo trigger/pistol grip rods at around 5', 5' 6" length to throw say1/4 , 3/8 and 1/2 oz lures.A Hardy Jock Scot taper would be particularly welcome?........And ......if anyone has any old aluminium pistol/trigger typebait casting handles for sale or trade please contact me off the list.Many thanks........Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_1211184==_.ALT Did you see the Herter's stuff on Reed's site.http:www.overmywaders.comI remember an EC Powell and another on the list, but I don't seem to havethem in my computer anymore.Bob Hi all, handed throw say1/4 , 3/8 and 1/2 oz lures.A Hardy Jock Scot taper would be particularly welcome?........And ......if anyone has any old aluminium pistol/triggertypebait casting handles for sale or trade please contact me off thelist.Many thanks........Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_1211184==_.ALT-- from brewer@teleport.com Sat Aug 26 11:50:33 2000 e7QGoWG27921 0000 (216.26.32.164) Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule (mag) Sadly, my readership was eroded when he failed to provide anything to read. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Bamboo Ferrule I don't know....I guess he thinks that it will erode his readership if his magazine is thesecond place people see things like this. I did say the same thing as youmention when he asked me not to say anything about the ferrule on this list,with Mr. Fries's web page being openly wiewable on the internet already. Iagree with you whole-heartedly about sharing information on this list.Darryl want to keep this a secret. It seems to me that in doing so, it is doingagreat dis-service to Mr. Fries, not to mention going against the spiritofthe open sharing of information that has always existed on this list. Mike- >> from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Aug 26 14:15:36 2000 e7QJFZG00924 Sat, 26 Aug 2000 21:15:29 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Timothy, why don't you use matt varnish in the first place. There are some finevarnishes around. Christian timothy troester wrote: all, there has been some discussion in the passedabout matt finishes on rods. i recall that someonewas rubbing down the final coat with pumas or rubbingcompound or steel wool or something. could someonerefresh my memory please? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sat Aug 26 15:05:49 2000 e7QK5mG02043 Subject: Tip scarf I need to scarf a rod tip and was wondering what the ideal angle andlength of scarf should be?I think I read something about less than 6 degrees but has anyone doneany testing on the ideal angle for strength and looks (invisibility ofthe joint)? from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Aug 26 16:40:44 2000 e7QLehG04056 Subject: Re: Christian, Matt or low luster varnish is just varnish with particulates (silica?) init. I find that it tends to "muddy" the finish. Rubbing, on the other hand,gives you more control because you control the final grit, the extent ofrubbing and the depth of finish. Since I rub on most of my finishes, Iactually bring the gloss up by rubbing with rottenstone and automotiveglaze after sanding out the imperfections with 800-1200 grit paper. This,unfortunately, takes more time and effort. I've never dipped a rod but Iexpect it would be near impossible to stir up the little particles in a diptube and keep them suspended without introducing bubbles. Has anyonetried? -Doug Easton At 09:07 PM 8/26/00 +0200, Christian Meinke wrote:Timothy, why don't you use matt varnish in the first place. There are some finevarnishes around. Christian timothy troester wrote: all, there has been some discussion in the passedabout matt finishes on rods. i recall that someonewas rubbing down the final coat with pumas or rubbingcompound or steel wool or something. could someonerefresh my memory please? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Aug 26 17:34:12 2000 e7QMYBG04996 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:33:59 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Doug, you might be right with regard to dipping and when the varnish is not mixedthoroughly. I sprayfinish my rods now. But also used brush on the finish withgood results. But personnaly I find it a little bit off to first dip with ahigh gloss varnish and then sand it off again. Just my opinion. Christian "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Christian, Matt or low luster varnish is just varnish with particulates (silica?) init. I find that it tends to "muddy" the finish. Rubbing, on the other hand,gives you more control because you control the final grit, the extent ofrubbing and the depth of finish. Since I rub on most of my finishes, Iactually bring the gloss up by rubbing with rottenstone and automotiveglaze after sanding out the imperfections with 800-1200 grit paper. This,unfortunately, takes more time and effort. I've never dipped a rod but Iexpect it would be near impossible to stir up the little particles in a diptube and keep them suspended without introducing bubbles. Has anyonetried? -Doug Easton At 09:07 PM 8/26/00 +0200, Christian Meinke wrote:Timothy, why don't you use matt varnish in the first place. There are some finevarnishes around. Christian timothy troester wrote: all, there has been some discussion in the passedabout matt finishes on rods. i recall that someonewas rubbing down the final coat with pumas or rubbingcompound or steel wool or something. could someonerefresh my memory please? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Aug 26 17:57:09 2000 e7QMv9G05831 Subject: Re: I dip varnish all sections at the "blank" stage, ie., no guides or grip,etc. I wet sand each coat with 600 wet/dry paper to maintain the integrityof the flats. Varnish "hates" corners and tends to draw back from theedges. Enough coats and the rod would eventually be round. The threadwraps are then given 4 or 5 coats to fill and level. A third and finalcoat is dipped to finish the rod.----------From: Christian Meinke Cc: tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com; rod 'akers Subject: Re: Date: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:25 PM Doug, you might be right with regard to dipping and when the varnish is notmixedthoroughly. I sprayfinish my rods now. But also used brush on the finishwithgood results. But personnaly I find it a little bit off to first dip withahigh gloss varnish and then sand it off again. Just my opinion. Christian "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Christian, Matt or low luster varnish is just varnish with particulates (silica?)init. I find that it tends to "muddy" the finish. Rubbing, on the otherhand,gives you more control because you control the final grit, the extentofrubbing and the depth of finish. Since I rub on most of my finishes, Iactually bring the gloss up by rubbing with rottenstone and automotiveglaze after sanding out the imperfections with 800-1200 grit paper.This,unfortunately, takes more time and effort. I've never dipped a rod butIexpect it would be near impossible to stir up the little particles in adiptube and keep them suspended without introducing bubbles. Has anyonetried? -Doug Easton At 09:07 PM 8/26/00 +0200, Christian Meinke wrote:Timothy, why don't you use matt varnish in the first place. There are some finevarnishes around. Christian timothy troester wrote: all, there has been some discussion in the passedabout matt finishes on rods. i recall that someonewas rubbing down the final coat with pumas or rubbingcompound or steel wool or something. could someonerefresh my memory please? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Aug 26 19:14:08 2000 e7R0E7G07431 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: How many issues of BFR were thre? I hope the publisher of BFR is aware that the reason so many people areupset about this magazine's demise is that it was really a very goodpublication. I re-read Per Brandin's article about rod action and designtoday (issue 1/4) and would say that it is one of the most useful articlesI've read on the subject. BFR will be sadly missed by this reader. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DEMARALON@aol.comSent: Friday, August 25, 2000 4:05 PM Subject: Re: How many issues of BFR were thre? Believe it to be 5 - or at least we have 5 issues. Vol 1, No. 1,January/February, l998; Vol 1 No. 2, March/April, 1998; Vol1, No. 3,May/June, l998; Vol 1 No. 4, July/August, l998; Vol l, No.5/6, Sept/Oct &Nov/Dec, l998 Harold and Eileen Demarest from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Aug 26 19:44:35 2000 e7R0iYG08075 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: Charles Ritz Fario CLub The taper for the Fario Club listed on Frank's Stetzer's site, submitted byMichael Leithheise is as follows: Planing Form SettingsRitz Fario Club 8ft 6in 2pc 6wtStation Rod Dimension Station SettingTip Section ( 0.00 inches to 55.00 inches)0 0.088 0.04405 0.098 0.049010 0.115 0.057515 0.138 0.069020 0.156 0.078025 0.163 0.081530 0.173 0.086535 0.193 0.096540 0.205 0.102545 0.218 0.109050 0.227 0.113555 0.248 0.124060 0.263 0.1315Butt Section ( 55.00 inches to 110.00 inches)55 0.248 0.124060 0.263 0.131565 0.275 0.137570 0.285 0.142575 0.284 0.142080 0.290 0.145085 0.298 0.149090 0.306 0.153095 0.314 0.1570100 0.322 0.1610105 0.330 0.1650110 0.338 0.1690115 0.346 0.1730 The 75-inch station is a little odd because it is actually smaller than the70- inch station. In addition, Charles Ritz says in A Fly Fisher's Life thatthe rod was 8' 5", not 8' 6". Can anyone shed some light on whether this taper is accurate? Any otherFario Club tapers out there I could use as reference? Many thanks, Richard from cadams46@juno.com Sat Aug 26 19:59:48 2000 e7R0xlG08433 20:59:27 EDT Subject: Rod ID Just got back from vacation and had picked up a mystery rod in SouthDakota. This rod is a combination fly rod and spin cast rod. The handlehas a hole in both ends and you can take the butt section off turn thecork around and put it in the other end to make it a casting rod. On thebutt section it has a yellow sticker that has cracked and peeled offmostly. The sticker has 2 curved fish on it and says KI KU & CO. inred bold letters. The space is where part of the sticker is missing. There is also a word in Blue going through the fish and the latter partof that word is mris or maybe mpis. The female ferrules say GRAMPUS onthem and the rod has brown intermediate wraps every 4". The rod has 2tips for both the fly rod and 2 tips for the casting rod. It came in avery light wood box with extremely fine brass hardware. If anyone knowswhat this rod may be I'd really appreciate it, and would also appreciatesome tips on the restoration of such a rod. ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from channer1@rmi.net Sat Aug 26 20:09:11 2000 e7R19AG08818 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Ted Knott wrote: I dip varnish all sections at the "blank" stage, ie., no guides or grip,etc. I wet sand each coat with 600 wet/dry paper to maintain the integrityof the flats. Varnish "hates" corners and tends to draw back from theedges. Enough coats and the rod would eventually be round. The threadwraps are then given 4 or 5 coats to fill and level. A third and finalcoat is dipped to finish the rod. Ted;You must be using polyurethane varnish, I find that Man-O-War tends togather on the corners, leaving a slight dish in the center of the flats,which is one of the reasons i like it, I just sand it down until theflat shows a uniform dullness then it is ready for the next coat.John from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Aug 26 20:20:22 2000 e7R1KLG09168 18:20:28 PDT ralph moon, i would like to pass on a personalmessage for you. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Aug 26 21:00:19 2000 e7R20IG10091 Subject: RE: How many issues of BFR were thre? Richard,Think of all the people out there who paid for ads and subscriptions who are out their money for this mag. I was really hoping it would make it as I reread it every once in awhile. I have all 5 issues that were put out and a hat.Bret from jhewitt@cmn.net Sun Aug 27 00:08:16 2000 e7R58GG13431 Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:06:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod ID C.R.This sounds like a Japanese rod from just after WWII. If so, it's worthabout $45 - $50...They can be fished for fun though...John Hewitt cadams46@juno.com wrote: Just got back from vacation and had picked up a mystery rod in SouthDakota. This rod is a combination fly rod and spin cast rod. The handlehas a hole in both ends and you can take the butt section off turn thecork around and put it in the other end to make it a casting rod. On thebutt section it has a yellow sticker that has cracked and peeled offmostly. The sticker has 2 curved fish on it and says KI KU & CO. inred bold letters. The space is where part of the sticker is missing.There is also a word in Blue going through the fish and the latter partof that word is mris or maybe mpis. The female ferrules say GRAMPUS onthem and the rod has brown intermediate wraps every 4". The rod has 2tips for both the fly rod and 2 tips for the casting rod. It came in avery light wood box with extremely fine brass hardware. If anyone knowswhat this rod may be I'd really appreciate it, and would also appreciatesome tips on the restoration of such a rod. ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Aug 27 02:11:15 2000 e7R7BCG15118 +0800 Subject: WARNING RUGBY TALK AHEAD Nobody on the list happens to know who won the Rubgy Tri Nations do they;- )))) Tony/**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Aug 27 03:15:36 2000 e7R8FXG16009 Subject: Re: WARNING RUGBY TALK AHEAD Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0105B.1793BB80 Hi, Tony YEP! I KNOW WHO WON THE RUGBY! Sure do know who won that Rugby! Without meaning to be too pointed here, do we have any South Africans on =this list? I mean, they might be making fly rods when they're not =winning Rugby games, mightn't they? :-) Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "Many men go fishing all their lives without realisingthat it is not fish they are after." Henry David Thoreau Subject: WARNING RUGBY TALK AHEAD Nobody on the list happens to know who won the Rubgy Tri Nations do =they;- )))) Tony=/************************************************************************=**/ Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching =/************************************************************************=**/ ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0105B.1793BB80 Hi, Tony YEP! I KNOW WHOWON = RUGBY! Sure do know who won that =Rugby! Without meaning to be too pointed here,= any South Africans on this list? I mean, they might be making fly rods = they're not winning Rugby games, mightn't they? :-) Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "Many men go fishing all their = realisingthat it is not fish they are after." Henry David =Thoreau----- Original Message ----- = From: "Tony Young" = Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 PMSubject: WARNING RUGBY AHEAD list = /************************************************************************= /************************************************************************= ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0105B.1793BB80-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Aug 27 04:26:01 2000 e7R9Q0G17031 (204.186.33.2) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Tip scarf from what I have been told the ratio is 1 : 12. For every 1" ofthickness or fraction there of , 12" or fraction there of length. Wow!Marty I need to scarf a rod tip and was wondering what the ideal angle andlength of scarf should be?I think I read something about less than 6 degrees but has anyone doneany testing on the ideal angle for strength and looks (invisibility ofthe joint)? from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Aug 27 05:19:55 2000 e7RAJqG17736 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:19:42 +0800 Subject: Re: Tip scarf I've found a ratio of about 20:1 works ok. A shorter ratio may work toobut I've never tried.When scarfing wood, softwoods are normally scarfed at about 8:1 andhardwoods 12:1. Bamboo being not of wood and a bit harder to glue properlydefinitely need a longer scarf. Tony At 04:07 PM 8/26/00 -0400, you wrote:I need to scarf a rod tip and was wondering what the ideal angle andlength of scarf should be?I think I read something about less than 6 degrees but has anyone doneany testing on the ideal angle for strength and looks (invisibility ofthe joint)? /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Aug 27 05:20:53 2000 e7RAKoG17846 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:20:47 +0800 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:20:46 +0800 Subject: Re: WARNING RUGBY TALK AHEAD Must have been quite a bit of shaving making happening then :-) Tony At 07:14 PM 8/27/00 +1000, petermckean wrote: Hi, Tony YEP! IKNOW WHO WON THE RUGBY! Sure do know who won thatRugby! Without meaning to be too pointed here,do we have any South Africans on this list? I mean, they might be makingfly rods when they're not winning Rugby games, mightn't they? :-) Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "Many men go fishing all theirlives without realisingthat it is not fish they are after." Henry David Thoreau----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Young" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 5:23 PMSubject: WARNING RUGBY TALK AHEAD Tri Nations do they /**************************************************************************/ www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html /**************************************************************************/ /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: the hub of a the use of the depend on the the hub that is void. advantage is had whatever is there; usefulness arises whatever is not. Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from dpizza@coho.net Sun Aug 27 08:54:01 2000 e7RDs0G20565 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 06:53:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo ferrule Now the question I have is........."Has anyone on the list been able to makethis ferrule ?" TIA David-----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo ferrule Greetings Rodmakers List Friends!I have been lurking on list for long time but sawsometing interest. Look towww.fries-rods.dk/bfrods.htmand see bamboo ferrule like Sir D talk about. Nice!Aklul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Aug 27 10:50:47 2000 e7RFokG22029 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:48:41 -0500 Subject: Re: How many issues of BFR were thre? I can't figure it, as my subscription check I find, has never been deposited! But I never received the back issues ordered either, and that check wascashed. Like you, I wish he could have made it. GMA from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Aug 27 10:55:48 2000 e7RFtmG22227 Subject: Re: Tip scarf This is probably a stupid question, but here goes: Do you use the averagethickness of the taper to determine the length of the scarf? If so,how doyou estimate it if you do not know the length of the scarf? For example, Ineed to scarf a tip which is down 6" and measures 0.080 at the break point.How should I calculate the length of the scarf? -Doug At 05:17 AM 8/27/00 -0400, marty wrote: from what I have been told the ratio is 1 : 12. For every 1" ofthickness or fraction there of , 12" or fraction there of length. Wow!Marty I need to scarf a rod tip and was wondering what the ideal angle andlength of scarf should be?I think I read something about less than 6 degrees but has anyone doneany testing on the ideal angle for strength and looks (invisibility ofthe joint)? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Aug 27 11:33:23 2000 e7RGXMG22992 (204.186.33.197) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Tip scarf Hi Doug, What I like about Cane rod making is that It's not RocketScience (even though Garrison/Carmichael' book makes it sound like it).I would take Tony's advise and go .080 x 20. Like I said I have heardthe ratio was 12/1. You can also go from guide wrap to guide wrap. Thatway you have reinforcment at the termination points. Marty This is probably a stupid question, but here goes: Do you use the averagethickness of the taper to determine the length of the scarf? If so,how doyou estimate it if you do not know the length of the scarf? For example, Ineed to scarf a tip which is down 6" and measures 0.080 at the breakpoint.How should I calculate the length of the scarf? -Doug At 05:17 AM 8/27/00 -0400, marty wrote: from what I have been told the ratio is 1 : 12. For every 1" ofthickness or fraction there of , 12" or fraction there of length. Wow!Marty I need to scarf a rod tip and was wondering what the ideal angle andlength of scarf should be?I think I read something about less than 6 degrees but has anyone doneany testing on the ideal angle for strength and looks (invisibility ofthe joint)? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Aug 27 11:52:21 2000 e7RGqKG23471 09:52:57 PDT Subject: Re: Tip scarf marty, this has to be like rocket science or i'm overeducated! timothy --- marty wrote:Hi Doug, What I like about Cane rod making is thatIt's not RocketScience (even though Garrison/Carmichael' book makesit sound like it). ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from cadams46@juno.com Sun Aug 27 13:13:18 2000 e7RIDHG25073 MAAAA25861 12:28:56 EDT Subject: Rod ID realated I really appreciate you guys who went and read that long windeddescription and sent a reply. And so far as getting ripped off goes therod was given to me so no big deal wiht it not being worth much. I wouldhowever like to restore it for practice. Does anyone have a good sourceof a grey/white thread or some color similar? Also what is the standardpractice with the tag on there? Thanks again Sincerely, C.R. Adams from jojo@ipa.net Sun Aug 27 15:03:34 2000 e7RK3XG27585 Subject: Epon 828/Epi-cure 3164 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C01037.87966500 To all who may decide to use the Epon 828 resin with the Epi-cure 3164 =curing agent: The correct ratio, by weight, of resin to curing agent is 100:136There is quite a lot of latitude regarding this ratio, however. =100:150 should pose no adverse problems. To ratio by volume is 2:3 -- that is 2 ml of resin to 3 ml of curing =agent, or 5 ml of resin to 7.5 ml of curing agent, etc. Hope this helps. Martin-Darrell ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C01037.87966500 To all who may decide to use the Epon 828 resin with the Epi-cure = curing agent: The correct ratio, by weight, of resin to curing agent is =100:136 this ratio, however. 100:150 should pose no adverse problems. ml of curing agent, or 5 ml of resin to 7.5 ml of curing agent, =etc. Hope this helps. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C01037.87966500-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Aug 27 16:11:27 2000 e7RLBQG29132 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: Flattening waterstones I can't remember where I read that some wood workers were using cementcinder blocks to flatten their water stones prior to sharpening the bladesof their planes but I tried it this technique last night and was thrilledwith the results. I thought my stones were pretty flat but just a fewpasses indicated that they were in fact deeper in the center than along thesides. Guess that explains why my blades were developing a bit of a curvealong the cutting edge. Hope this helps, Richard from edriddle@mindspring.com Sun Aug 27 18:29:09 2000 e7RNT8G02081 Subject: Re: Flattening waterstones I haven't tried to flatten waterstones, but I have wet-sanded metal surfacesto gain flatness by placing sandpaper flat on a pane of glass placed onworkbench and rubbing object in a circular motion, seems like it oughtawork for other items. OBTW, thanks to the Listmember who said he used teflon tape to mask offguide-wraps, etc., prior to color-preserving, great tip.Ed -----Original Message----- Subject: Flattening waterstones I can't remember where I read that some wood workers were using cementcinder blocks to flatten their water stones prior to sharpening the bladesof their planes from utzerath@execpc.com Sun Aug 27 18:55:14 2000 e7RNtEG02819 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:55:11 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Flattening waterstones Thanks for trying that out; I wondered how well it worked. You read that inFine Woodworking about the second issue of 2000 in an article aboutdifferent approaches to sharpening tools. Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: Flattening waterstones I can't remember where I read that some wood workers were using cementcinder blocks to flatten their water stones prior to sharpening the bladesof their planes but I tried it this technique last night and was thrilledwith the results. I thought my stones were pretty flat but just a fewpasses indicated that they were in fact deeper in the center than alongthesides. Guess that explains why my blades were developing a bit of a curvealong the cutting edge. Hope this helps, Richard from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Aug 27 19:23:21 2000 e7S0NKG03484 Subject: Re: Tip scarf In a message dated 8/27/0 3:56:38 PM, dpeaston@wzrd.com writes: Doug - You don't need to calculate the length, it will be determined by the angle of your splicing block. Cut the angle into the broken section first, and use the length of the angle to help determine the length of the add on piece. If you match the taper and color of the two pieces well, the splice will virtually disappear. I have made many that even I can't find after a bit of time passes. You can also hide them under guide wraps if you want. from saweiss@flash.net Sun Aug 27 19:55:02 2000 e7S0t0G04348 Subject: Re: Flattening waterstones I can't remember where I read that some wood workers were using cementcinder blocks to flatten their water stones prior to sharpening the bladesof their planes I use a diamond sharpening plate and rub the waterstone with it underflowing water or in a bucket of water. A few passes and the surface of thewaterstone is flat again.Steve from bob@downandacross.com Sun Aug 27 20:34:26 2000 e7S1YPG05324 Subject: teflon tape --=====================_7822565==_.ALT Yes Ed. That was a great tip. I need to go get some more, it comes in so useful.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_7822565==_.ALT Yes Ed. That was a great tip. I need to go get some more, it comesin so useful. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_7822565==_.ALT-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Aug 27 21:20:57 2000 e7S2KsG06309 Subject: Flattening Waterstones Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C010F2.BB734E40 This may seem a little obsessive, but when I sharpen my blades, which I =do frequently, I keep a 10 litre bucket by the bench, and in it, in =water, I place the stone I am going to use next; so if I am roughing =with an 800 grit stone, the 1200 is sitting in the bucket. Certainly at the time I finish with the 800, and maybe even half way =through using it, I lap the two stones together for a short time; I do =this every time I change to a different grit. The stones are always flat when you do this, and apart from the fact =that the bucket gets pretty dirty and it is a nuisance to have your =hands in and out of water all the time, I find it less of a PITA than =radical flattening. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C010F2.BB734E40 This may seem a little obsessive, but = sharpen my blades, which I do frequently, I keep a 10 litre bucket by = and in it, in water, I place the stone I am going to use next; so if I = roughing with an 800 grit stone, the 1200 is sitting in the =bucket. and maybe even half way through using it, I lap the two stones together = short time; I do this every time I change to a different =grit. The stones are always flat when you do= apart from the fact that the bucket gets pretty dirty and it is a = have your hands in and out of water all the time, I find it less of a = radical flattening. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling= the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C010F2.BB734E40-- from channer1@rmi.net Sun Aug 27 21:48:00 2000 e7S2m0G07014 Subject: Re: Tip scarf "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but here goes: Do you use the averagethickness of the taper to determine the length of the scarf? If so,how doyou estimate it if you do not know the length of the scarf? For example, Ineed to scarf a tip which is down 6" and measures 0.080 at the breakpoint.How should I calculate the length of the scarf? -Doug Doug;I have only done tip scarfs and for those I followed the suggestion inWayne's book, namely, I make them 1 1/2" long, regardless of taper. Ihave 2 of my own rods that have been scarfed and I have done several forother people and so far they seem to be holding just fine, my oldest oneis on the first rod I made and it has seen 5 years of hard use( i try tofish at least 1 day a week). I should add that I cut the rod back enoughto position the scarf under a guide, that way the guide wraps reinforcethe scarf. Wayne's booK suggests 2 1/2" for butt scarfs.John from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Aug 27 21:55:22 2000 e7S2tMG07312 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Tip scarf wlwalter@bellatlantic.net I think you want to use a two degree angle. 6 degrees will not give enoughsurface area, I don't believe on the fine tip areas. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: Tip scarf In a message dated 8/27/0 3:56:38 PM, dpeaston@wzrd.com writes: Doug - You don't need to calculate the length, it will be determined by theangle of your splicing block. Cut the angle into the broken section first,and use the length of the angle to help determine the length of the add onpiece. If you match the taper and color of the two pieces well, the splicewill virtually disappear. I have made many that even I can't find after abitof time passes. You can also hide them under guide wraps if you want. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Aug 27 22:15:21 2000 e7S3FIG07944 20:25:31 PDT Subject: Re: Tip scarf "rod 'akers" i'm sorry rich. what in the world are you talkingabout and what in the world did i do to you? timothy --- Rich Jezioro wrote:Boom, your rocket exploded. So much for engineeringorganic products. :-) Cane, specifically Tolkin, is an organic materialthat there is minimal, if any, engineering information about. It is almostamusing to see people talk about engineering precision as if cane was metalwith exacting tolerances. I am a social worker and process is our medium. Withthe wide variances in cane, process seems to be more applicable at times.So much for education. :-) (I am starting a Phd program in a couple of weeks,Ask me in a few years about the relevance of education. :-) Rich Jezioro At 11:52 AM 8/27/00, you wrote:marty, this has to be like rocket science or i'movereducated! timothy --- marty wrote:Hi Doug, What I like about Cane rod making isthatIt's not RocketScience (even though Garrison/Carmichael' bookmakesit sound like it). ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access fromanywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/ ____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > / \ > ))):> ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Aug 27 22:59:18 2000 e7S3xHG08943 21:00:07 PDT Subject: Re: Tip scarf "rod 'akers" whoops! my apology to you sir! i see your humor isas obtuse as mine. we should get together sometimeand entertain ourselves. where are you from? timothy --- Rich Jezioro wrote:Just kidding. It is late and a long week. Sorry ofthe humor didn't carry over into print.Rich At 10:25 PM 8/27/00, you wrote:i'm sorry rich. what in the world are you talkingabout and what in the world did i do to you? timothy --- Rich Jezioro wrote:Boom, your rocket exploded. So much forengineeringorganic products. :-) Cane, specifically Tolkin, is an organicmaterialthat there is minimal, ifany, engineering information about. It is almostamusing to see people talkabout engineering precision as if cane was metalwith exacting tolerances. I am a social worker and process is our medium.Withthe wide variances incane, process seems to be more applicable attimes.So much for education.:-) (I am starting a Phd program in a couple ofweeks,Ask me in a few yearsabout the relevance of education. :-) Rich Jezioro At 11:52 AM 8/27/00, you wrote:marty, this has to be like rocket science ori'movereducated! timothy --- marty wrote:Hi Doug, What I like about Cane rod makingisthatIt's not RocketScience (even though Garrison/Carmichael'bookmakesit sound like it). ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access fromanywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/ ____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> /\ >))):> ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access fromanywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/ ____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > / \ > ))):> ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from rfairfie@cisco.com Sun Aug 27 23:27:35 2000 e7S4RYG09517 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Flattening waterstones I have found that 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper on my bench top (a kitchencounter top) works very well for flattening my waterstones. Kinda makes amess, but the stones come out flat. I wet the paper and move the stones onthe paper in a circular motion. Thanks,RogerAt 06:55 PM 8/27/00 -0500, Jim Utzerath wrote:Thanks for trying that out; I wondered how well it worked. You read that inFine Woodworking about the second issue of 2000 in an article aboutdifferent approaches to sharpening tools. Jim U----- Original Message -----From: "Richard Nantel" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 3:30 PMSubject: Flattening waterstones I can't remember where I read that some wood workers were usingcementcinder blocks to flatten their water stones prior to sharpening the bladesof their planes but I tried it this technique last night and was thrilledwith the results. I thought my stones were pretty flat but just a fewpasses indicated that they were in fact deeper in the center than alongthesides. Guess that explains why my blades were developing a bit of a curvealong the cutting edge. Hope this helps, Richard from martinj@aa.net Sun Aug 27 23:34:50 2000 e7S4YnG09817 Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:34:45 -0700 "'rod 'akers'" Subject: RE: Tip scarf huh? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tip scarf Rich JezioroWiththe wide variances in cane, process seems to be more applicable at times.http://mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Aug 27 23:41:08 2000 e7S4f7G10071 21:51:22 PDT Subject: Re: fool outa me Re: Tip scarf "rod 'akers" marwhootis? you two guys must drink incredibly dry martinis Bradley ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Sun Aug 27 23:57:22 2000 e7S4vLG10427 Subject: Re: fool outa me Re: Tip scarf Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Tim,martini(plural nis)-a cocktail usually made of three or more parts gin to onpart of dry vermouth. Bradley ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: fool outa me Re: Tip scarf marwhootis? you two guys must drink incredibly dry martinis Bradley ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Aug 28 03:17:42 2000 e7S8HgG14103 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 01:17:35 -0700 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:17:35 GMT Subject: Waterstones FILETIME=[6BE61BC0:01C010C8] I have been thinking about asking this question for a couple of years: Why do you use a waterstone that must be periodically flattened instead of a diamond stone? When I first started I thought of the drawback of a 'grit' type of stone and used a diamond plate from the start(yes you can wearthem out). It just seems to me that there is alot of fussing with the stones whereas the diamond is pretty well idiot proof. This leads me to think that I am missing some advantage to using the waterstone or there is some tradition faux-paux I am making here. A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Aug 28 04:04:13 2000 e7S94CG14817 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Charles Ritz Fario CLub Richard, I had the opportunity to borrow my friends Fario club made by Sharps ofAberdeen..I t was a real cannon, I've never had so much line in the air with any rod, incompletecontrol.... I'm sure if You ask Stephen Weaver, he is the current owner of Sharps, he'llgiveYou the correct numbers......here are my measurements: Fario 8'5" #5-6, impregnated, build by Sharps of Aberdeen. Guidespacing: 4 2/8, 10 5/8, 18 1/4, 26 1/4, 34, 41 3/4, 49 3/4/// 591/2,67 3/4 and 76 Tip: 1392 mm Butt: 1222 mm 1 1/4 - ,086 57 - ,2675 - ,100 60 - ,26910 - ,114 65 - ,27715 - ,131 70 - ,28620 - ,144 75 - ,29625 - ,158 80 - ,30030 - ,172 85 - ,31035 - ,190 90 - ,32240 - ,20545 - ,22549 - ,23652 1/2 - ,248 Regardsdanny from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Aug 28 05:43:31 2000 e7SAhUG16338 0000 (204.186.33.40) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Waterstones Hi Allen, I sharpen 15 blades at a clip. I go first to a diamond platethan to a 1000 water stone followed by a 6000 water stone then to a 8000polishing water stone and finish on a leather strop. I can do all 15 inan hour. I haven't bought razor blades in years. To answer your question, I can't get a really sharp blade with just adiamond plate. But that's me. Marty I have been thinking about asking this question for a couple of years: Why do you use a waterstone that must be periodically flattened instead ofadiamond stone? When I first started I thought of the drawback of a 'grit'type of stone and used a diamond plate from the start(yes you can wearthemout). It just seems to me that there is alot of fussing with the stoneswhereas the diamond is pretty well idiot proof. This leads me to think thatI am missing some advantage to using the waterstone or there is sometradition faux-paux I am making here. A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile athttp://profiles.msn.com. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 28 06:11:33 2000 e7SBBSG16794 Subject: Re: Waterstones All you're missing is the hasle of periodicaly flattening the stone.The water stone needs a slurry of water and the grit from the stone andthis of course dishes and grooves etc. You get a nice edge from one but youdo from the diamond stones too. Incidently, I flatten my water stone by attaching some 80 grit to a flatsurface and using my stone like a plane across it. Tony At 08:17 AM 8/28/00 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: I have been thinking about asking this question for a couple of years: Why do you use a waterstone that must be periodically flattened instead ofa diamond stone? When I first started I thought of the drawback of a 'grit' type of stone and used a diamond plate from the start(yes you can wearthem out). It just seems to me that there is alot of fussing with the stones whereas the diamond is pretty well idiot proof. This leads me to think that I am missing some advantage to using the waterstone or there is some tradition faux-paux I am making here. A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Aug 28 06:15:02 2000 e7SBF1G16969 Subject: Re: Tip scarf Thanks to all who have responded to my "stupid question." 1.5" sounds likea good splice for a tip.I think that John is hiding a special technique from us. That is, how toget away and fish one day a week! "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: This is probably a stupid question, but here goes: Do you use the averagethickness of the taper to determine the length of the scarf? If so,how doyou estimate it if you do not know the length of the scarf? For example, Ineed to scarf a tip which is down 6" and measures 0.080 at the breakpoint.How should I calculate the length of the scarf? -Doug Doug;I have only done tip scarfs and for those I followed the suggestion inWayne's book, namely, I make them 1 1/2" long, regardless of taper. Ihave 2 of my own rods that have been scarfed and I have done several forother people and so far they seem to be holding just fine, my oldest oneis on the first rod I made and it has seen 5 years of hard use( i try tofish at least 1 day a week). I should add that I cut the rod back enoughto position the scarf under a guide, that way the guide wraps reinforcethe scarf. Wayne's booK suggests 2 1/2" for butt scarfs.John Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from channer1@rmi.net Mon Aug 28 07:18:49 2000 e7SCImG18002 Subject: Re: Tip scarf "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Thanks to all who have responded to my "stupid question." 1.5" sounds likea good splice for a tip.I think that John is hiding a special technique from us. That is, how toget away and fish one day a week! -Doug Doug;No special technique involved, just be content to live in borderlinepoverty from refusing to work more than 5 days a week, pick one day onthe weekend that you want to go fishing, then get up before anyone elsein the house AND GO before the phone rings. Rodmaking gets done afterwork and early the other weekend morning, before the honey-do's start.John from channer1@rmi.net Mon Aug 28 07:22:28 2000 e7SCMSG18198 Subject: Re: Tip scarf "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Thanks to all who have responded to my "stupid question." 1.5" sounds likea good splice for a tip.I think that John is hiding a special technique from us. That is, how toget away and fish one day a week! from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Aug 28 07:49:04 2000 e7SCn3G18950 05:49:01 PDT Subject: Re: Waterstones the only advantage i have found of having a waterstone is that i now have three outstanding paperweights i would not have had if i would have takenyour route in the beginning. timothy --- Allen Thramer wrote: I have been thinking about asking this question fora couple of years: Why do you use a waterstone that must beperiodically flattened instead of a diamond stone? When I first started I thought of thedrawback of a 'grit' type of stone and used a diamond plate from thestart(yes you can wear them out). It just seems to me that there is alot offussing with the stones whereas the diamond is pretty well idiot proof. Thisleads me to think that I am missing some advantage to using the waterstoneor there is some tradition faux-paux I am making here. A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your ownpublic profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 28 08:01:04 2000 e7SD14G19334 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Tip scarf Advertisement:ADOPT ME! Middle aged orphan in need of a good home. Needs rodmakingatmosphere and adoptive parents must live within an hours drive of a dozencoldwater trout fisheries. A southwestern Colorado climate would probablyhelp his hair loss problem! Orphan provides his own beer, cooler and flyrods. Have a heart and give this old man a good home. Call 1-900-Fly- fish:^) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tip scarf "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Thanks to all who have responded to my "stupid question." 1.5" soundslikea good splice for a tip.I think that John is hiding a special technique from us. That is, how toget away and fish one day a week! I almost forgot the most imortant part, it helps to live within an hoursdrive of at least a dozen rivers and streams.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 28 08:15:08 2000 e7SDF7G20137 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:13:28 -0500 ,"Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Flattening waterstones Standard practice when lapping flat surfaces is to use a figure 8pattern/motion, no matter what the material is. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 28 08:19:56 2000 e7SDJtG20557 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:20:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Waterstones What about a hard Arkansas, or a ceramic stone? These are superb for finaledges on gouges, and knives. I use these on softer woods like balsa andbasswood, which tend to roll an edge easier. All is takes is brief "buff"on the felt belt, and the edge is perfect again. GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Aug 28 09:03:11 2000 e7SE3AG22078 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Waterstones Timothy, AJ -- If you gave the Tom Smithwick - George Barnes leather sharpening wheelmethod a try, you might turn those diamond stones into paperweights aswell.Very few suggestions from this list have saved me as much time and grief.Thanks again, Tom and George..... Harry Boyd timothy troester wrote: the only advantage i have found of having a waterstone is that i now have three outstanding paperweights i would not have had if i would have takenyour route in the beginning. timothy --- Allen Thramer wrote: Why do you use a waterstone that must beperiodically flattened instead of adiamond stone? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Mon Aug 28 09:47:14 2000 e7SElEG24452 Subject: Re: Rod ID In a message dated 8/26/00 6:00:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cadams46@juno.com writes: it's a Japanese GRAMPUS. Don B. from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Aug 28 10:31:59 2000 e7SFVxG27240 (5.5.2650.21) "Douglas P. Easton" Subject: RE: Tip scarf A professor friend of mine routinely spends part or all of more than 200days per year flyfishing and/or bird and bow hunting. He is fortunate thata major part of his job responsibilities is consulting with farmers andranchers in the western US, thus he spends much time on the road in niceplaces. Part of his ability to spend that amount of time is that he doesnone of the ancillary activities such as build rods, tie flies, reloadcartridges, etc.; all that time is spent in the field. Certainly noteveryone could spend that amount of time even if they gave up theirancillary activities. Weather and closed seasons shuts many of us down forpart of the year. Howard is fortunate to live in an area that permitsyear-round activity. He has spring and summer trout fishing, fall huntingand winter steelhead fishing with hardly a day all year that has weather sobad that you can't get out. That said, he still has to go. Most of uscould probably double our time spent afield if we just picked up the rod orgun and went out the door. I know I could and I am already out 50 - 60times. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tip scarf "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Thanks to all who have responded to my "stupid question." 1.5" sounds likea good splice for a tip.I think that John is hiding a special technique from us. That is, how toget away and fish one day a week! -Doug Doug;No special technique involved, just be content to live in borderlinepoverty from refusing to work more than 5 days a week, pick one day onthe weekend that you want to go fishing, then get up before anyone elsein the house AND GO before the phone rings. Rodmaking gets done afterwork and early the other weekend morning, before the honey-do's start.John from Canerods@aol.com Mon Aug 28 10:38:40 2000 e7SFceG27716 Subject: Re: Tip scarf In a message dated 8/26/00 1:06:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wlwalter@bellatlantic.net writes: The Garrison book covers scarfs quite well and includes plans for making a scarf block. The only think to think about and remember is that the added piece needs to be measured in reverse from the point marking the beginningof the scarf. Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Mon Aug 28 10:53:21 2000 e7SFrLG28725 Subject: Re: Waterstones And if anyone wants to "cheap out", get the surface and the sandpaper andskip the stones. I'm thrilled with the "Scary Sharp" method; inexpensive,quick, effective!Art At 04:53 PM 08/28/2000 +0800, Tony Young wrote:All you're missing is the hasle of periodicaly flattening the stone.The water stone needs a slurry of water and the grit from the stone andthis of course dishes and grooves etc. You get a nice edge from one but youdo from the diamond stones too. Incidently, I flatten my water stone by attaching some 80 grit to a flatsurface and using my stone like a plane across it. Tony At 08:17 AM 8/28/00 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: I have been thinking about asking this question for a couple of years: Why do you use a waterstone that must be periodically flattened insteadof a diamond stone? When I first started I thought of the drawback of a 'grit' type of stone and used a diamond plate from the start(yes you can wearthem out). It just seems to me that there is alot of fussing with the stones whereas the diamond is pretty well idiot proof. This leads me to think that I am missing some advantage to using the waterstone or there is some tradition faux-paux I am making here. A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Thirty spokes will converge In the hub of a wheel; But the use of the cart Will depend on the part Of the hub that is void. So advantage is had from whatever is there;But usefulness arises from whatever is not. Tao Te Ching /**************************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Aug 28 12:26:45 2000 e7SHQiG03423 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Flattening Waterstones After I started using the "scary Sharp" method (wet/dry papers glued toplate glass) I gave away my wet stone, and retired all my oil stones whichI had used for the last 20 years. ---------- Subject: Flattening Waterstones This may seem a little obsessive, but when I sharpen my blades, which I dofrequently, I keep a 10 litre bucket by the bench, and in it, in water, Iplace the stone I am going to use next; so if I am roughing with an 800grit stone, the 1200 is sitting in the bucket. Certainly at the time I finish with the 800, and maybe even half waythrough using it, I lap the two stones together for a short time; I do thisevery time I change to a different grit. The stones are always flat when you do this, and apart from the fact thatthe bucket gets pretty dirty and it is a nuisance to have your hands in andout of water all the time, I find it less of a PITA than radicalflattening. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Aug 28 12:44:54 2000 e7SHisG04378 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Scary Sharp Technique Several sites have the technique, my site included... for those new to thelist you can see the "Scary Sharp" technique on my site at...http://www.vfish.net/sharp.htm Thanks to Danny Twang for pointing out that the link to this page was down Darrellwww.vfish.net from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Aug 28 13:31:27 2000 e7SIVQG06729 0400 Subject: FW: Somebody mentioned a professor friend who fished 200+ days a year. Wasthishim? Did he fish bamboo? http://www.harvard-magazine.com/archive/00ja/ja00.vita.miyata.html from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Aug 28 13:48:58 2000 e7SImvG07888 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:48:52 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Scary Sharp Technique "Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Several sites have the technique, my site included... for those new to thelist you can see the "Scary Sharp" technique on my site at...http://www.vfish.net/sharp.htm Thanks to Danny Twang for pointing out that the link to this page was down Darrellwww.vfish.net Darrell,Thanks for pointing out your condensed version of this system. I wonderif someone has the url for the long version? I'm writing a series of internetarticles on making rods and need to reference the long method of sharpeningwith sandpaper. Thanks,Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from anglport@con2.com Mon Aug 28 14:03:11 2000 e7SJ3AG08793 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp Technique Harry,I think you want: http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM#original Art At 01:47 PM 08/28/2000 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:"Darrell A. Lee" wrote: Several sites have the technique, my site included... for those new to thelist you can see the "Scary Sharp" technique on my site at...http://www.vfish.net/sharp.htm Thanks to Danny Twang for pointing out that the link to this page wasdown Darrellwww.vfish.net Darrell,Thanks for pointing out your condensed version of this system. I wonderif someone has the url for the long version? I'm writing a series ofinternetarticles on making rods and need to reference the long method ofsharpeningwith sandpaper. Thanks,Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Aug 28 15:36:27 2000 e7SKaQG13056 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: FW: Seth, One of my assocaites was a graduate student at Harvard when Ken wasthere.When I told him that he had drowned he was shocked. This incedent made meacautious wader, particularly when I fish alone. My friend says that he wasmore than a fine fisherman he was a fine sientist and well respectedamungst his collegues. -Doug At 02:32 PM 8/28/00 -0400, Seth Steinzor wrote: Somebody mentioned a professor friend who fished 200+ days a year. Wasthishim? Did he fish bamboo? http://www.harvard-magazine.com/archive/00ja/ja00.vita.miyata.html Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Aug 28 15:41:09 2000 e7SKf4G13375 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:40:56 +0100 Subject: Re: FW: Seth,The message is always take care when wading...........Paul Seth Steinzor wrote: Somebody mentioned a professor friend who fished 200+ days a year. Was thishim? Did he fish bamboo? http://www.harvard-magazine.com/archive/00ja/ja00.vita.miyata.html from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Aug 28 15:53:58 2000 e7SKrvG14085 0400 Subject: RE: Miyata I've received many messages in response to my posting about KenMiyata today. He seems to have been a fine man who touched many people,aswell as an amazing fisherman and unfortunately incautious wader. I wish Ihad known him. Thank you all. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 4:41 PM Cc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: Re: FW: Seth,The message is always take care when wading...........Paul Seth Steinzor wrote: Somebody mentioned a professor friend who fished 200+ days a year. Wasthishim? Did he fish bamboo? http://www.harvard-magazine.com/archive/00ja/ja00.vita.miyata.html from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Aug 28 16:49:55 2000 e7SLnsG16794 Subject: aerodux 500/water based Resorcinol glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01C0110F.91300980 Thought I would share this with the listmembers gallon kits are one gallon resin and one gallon resin and a quart of hardener, they are priced at $60.00.They also sent a product information sheet with the open is stated as having at least one year shelf life at 40-68 degrees F. Bradley ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01C0110F.91300980 Thought I would share this with the =listmembers I have just received the product specifications for = The $145.00 gallon kits are one gallon resin and one =gallon also = kits" which is a quart of $60.00.They also sent a product information sheet with open different classes of resin fast, medium, and = also appears that the best over all choice for regular shop conditions is the =500 slow, it can handle temperatures up to 95 degrees F with a pot = hours at 50 degrees F and one hour at 68 is stated as having atleast = shelf life at 40-68 degrees F. hope this is helpful info Bradley ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01C0110F.91300980-- from yves@hwy97.net Mon Aug 28 17:52:30 2000 e7SMqUG18722 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:52:30 -0700 Subject: Re: teflon tape Bob: Do you remove immediately after, or can you leave it on for multiplecoats? TIA, Dave At 09:33 PM 8/27/00 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:Yes Ed. That was a great tip. I need to go get some more, it comes in souseful. Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 28 18:03:24 2000 e7SN3NG19083 Subject: Re: teflon tape --=====================_45881503==_.ALT Hi Dave:Actually, the way I use it is I wrap the ferrules with the teflon tape (including over the ferrule plugs I use for dipping). Then I cover the whole thing in masking tape. Since the teflon is under it all you don't get that sticky residue from the masking tape. Works great and comes offneatly after the three or so coats of dipping in PU. I use the masking tape just so I am assured the varnish stays off the ferrules.I have also used the teflon tape at the end of the grip to guard against varnish getting on the cork and on real seats to protect the hardware from the clips I use to hang the butt sections in the drying cabinet. It's great because with or without tape it keeps the sticky gunk off the sections. You might also use it to protect your blank when you chuck it up in the lathe, but I just use low tack masking tape for that.Best regards,Bob At 03:52 PM 8/28/00 -0700, David La Touche wrote:Bob: Do you remove immediately after, or can you leave it on for multiplecoats? TIA, Dave At 09:33 PM 8/27/00 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:Yes Ed. That was a great tip. I need to go get some more, it comes in souseful.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_45881503==_.ALT Hi Dave:Actually, the way I use it is I wrap the ferrules with the teflon tape(including over the ferrule plugs I use for dipping). Then I cover thewhole thing in masking tape. Since the teflon is under it all you don'tget that sticky residue from the masking tape. Works great and comes offneatly after the three or so coats of dipping in PU. I use the maskingtape just so I am assured the varnish stays off the ferrules. I have also used the teflon tape at the end of the grip to guard againstvarnish getting on the cork and on real seats to protect the hardware from the clips I use to hang the butt sections in the drying cabinet.It's great because with or without tape it keeps the sticky gunk off thesections. You might also use it to protect your blank when you chuck itup in the lathe, but I just use low tack masking tape for that.Best regards,Bob At 03:52 PM 8/28/00 -0700, David La Touche wrote: can you leave it on for multiple At 09:33 PM 8/27/00 -0400, bob maulucci wrote: so Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_45881503==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Aug 28 19:30:53 2000 e7T0UqG21230 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:28:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Waterstones Is this leather sharpening method on a web site somewhere Harry ? GMA from oakmere@carol.net Mon Aug 28 20:31:36 2000 e7T1VZG23073 Subject: RE: "scary Sharp" Hi Folks: Since I am getting ready to do something about sharpening blades - purchasing stones, diamond, paper, ?? - could someone plug me in on thismethod since it sounds interesting and less costly. Input and commentsplease. Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Aug 28 21:01:07 2000 e7T216G24128 Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) Subject: RE: "scary Sharp" The scary sharp system produces extremely sharp edges. I'm not sure it isless costly, though. I started out using this system and abandoned itbecause I was going through sandpaper at quite a rate. In the long run, acombination waterstone (1000x/4000x) from a place such as Lee Valley isless costly. After all, they sell a combination stone, honing guide, andangle jig as a "Sharpening Set" for $61.75 cdn, about $42 U.S. In no way associated, just a customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:32 PM Subject: RE: "scary Sharp" Hi Folks: Since I am getting ready to do something about sharpening blades - purchasing stones, diamond, paper, ?? - could someone plugme in on thismethod since it sounds interesting and less costly. Input andcomments please. Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA;570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from channer1@rmi.net Mon Aug 28 21:28:21 2000 e7T2SJG25010 Subject: Re: Tip scarf Bob Nunley wrote: Advertisement:ADOPT ME! Middle aged orphan in need of a good home. Needs rodmakingatmosphere and adoptive parents must live within an hours drive of adozencoldwater trout fisheries. A southwestern Colorado climate would probablyhelp his hair loss problem! Orphan provides his own beer, cooler and flyrods. Have a heart and give this old man a good home. Call 1-900-Fly- fish:^) Bob;All applicants must provide their own groceries,gas, vehicle andinsurance, this ain't no charity. Spare room available, provided thedaughter doesn't move back in.John from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Aug 28 21:38:16 2000 e7T2cFG25390 Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:38:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Waterstones George,There are some pictures on Chris Bogart's website, and acouple of my amateurish version of the same thing on the SRG websitein the pictures from 1998. Harry nobler wrote: Is this leather sharpening method on a web site somewhere Harry ? from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Aug 28 23:29:30 2000 e7T4TUG28142 Subject: Re: "scary Sharp" 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I dont think the scary sharp system is all that expensive compared to itsspeed and convenience. I use a piece of plate glass about 12" by 16",free from my neighbourhood glazier. I spray glue with 3M adhesive (about$4.00) and apply four strips of paper cut a little wider than the planewidth. Abrasive grades are #320, #600, #1000, #1500, and I get at least 3strips per sheet @ about $1.00 per sheet. I do about 10 strokes on eachgrade and I do it "off hand", no guide, then Buff the renewed cutting edgewith a leather wheel (Which I made for about $2.00) with green sharpeningcompound. I can sharpen the blades about 6 to 8 times before I need toreplace the strips of paper with fresh strips. Every 6 months to a year Ihone the blade edges on a Wen sharpener to re-establish the 65 degreecutting angle. but for day-to- day sharpening I use the scary sharp process.Each blade, including removal from the plane, sharpening, andre-installing and adjusting, takes less than 5 minutes. And there is nomessy oil or water!----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: "scary Sharp"Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:19 PM The scary sharp system produces extremely sharp edges. I'm not sure it isless costly, though. I started out using this system and abandoned itbecause I was going through sandpaper at quite a rate. In the long run,acombination waterstone (1000x/4000x) from a place such as Lee Valley isless costly. After all, they sell a combination stone, honing guide, andangle jig as a "Sharpening Set" for $61.75 cdn, about $42 U.S. In no way associated, just a customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:32 PM Subject: RE: "scary Sharp" Hi Folks: Since I am getting ready to do something about sharpening blades - purchasing stones, diamond, paper, ?? - could someone plugme in on thismethod since it sounds interesting and less costly. Input andcomments please. Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA;570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from saweiss@flash.net Tue Aug 29 00:11:36 2000 e7T5BZG29371 Subject: Re: aerodux 500/water based Resorcinol glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C01145.1EA4B420 Bradley,Do you have the source address, phone #, website,Etc.?Steve Custompak Industries Aerodux 500 product ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C01145.1EA4B420 Bradley,Do you have the source address, = website,Etc.?Steve I have just received the product specifications = product ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C01145.1EA4B420-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Aug 29 05:01:52 2000 e7TA1nG03513 Subject: Waterstones Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C011FC.46AC4660 'My Rods Are Made of Fibre Grass!' Hello, Ted It's horses for courses, really, isn't it. I commenced sharpening, and =in fact did all the flattening and polishing of the Hock irons I still =use, on wet&dry paper spray glued to plate glass. I found it to be a =dirty process, admittedly very efficient and fast, though perhaps a bit =harsh on the metal removal (in my hands, at least). As soon as I could get some I changed to waterstones, and while I can't =say that I exactly love them, I can't see myself changing. Would like to =try diamond, though I suspect that the dry removal of metal dust would =be just as dirty as paper was. It's a hobby, after all. I don't mind the time spent. That's what I am =doing it for when it all boils down. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C011FC.46AC4660 'My Rods Are Made of Grass!' Hello, Ted It's horses for courses, really, isn't = commenced sharpening, and in fact did all the flattening and polishing = Hock irons I still use, on wet&dry paper spray glued to plate glass. = it to be a dirty process, admittedly very efficient and fast, though = least). As soon as I could get some I changed = waterstones, and while I can't say that I exactly love them, I can't see = changing. Would like to try diamond, though I suspect that the dry = metal dust would be just as dirty as paper was. It's a hobby, after all. I don't mind = spent. That's what I am doing it for when it all boils =down. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling= the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C011FC.46AC4660-- from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Aug 29 06:51:58 2000 e7TBpvG05159 Subject: Re: aerodux 500/water based Resorcinol glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C01185.34523820 Custompak www.custompak.com 11047 Lambs LaneNewark, Ohio 43055 1 800-454-45831 740-763-2888 FAX no financial interest or association in any way, Bradley Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 12:10 AMSubject: Re: aerodux 500/water based Resorcinol glue Bradley,Do you have the source address, phone #, website,Etc.?Steve Custompak Industries Aerodux 500 product ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C01185.34523820 Custompak www.custompak.com 11047 Lambs Lane 1 800-454-45831 740-763-2888 FAX no financial interest or association in any =way, Bradley ----- Original Message ----- Steven = Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000= AMSubject: Re: aerodux 500/water= Resorcinol glue Bradley,Do you have the source address,= website,Etc.?Steve I have just received the product specifications = product ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C01185.34523820-- from mep@mint.net Tue Aug 29 06:55:42 2000 e7TBtfG05325 Tue, 29 Aug 2000 07:55:27 -0400 Subject: Re: "scary Sharp" I use a fairly simple method that sounds similar. I can shave with theblades when I am done. Get a flat surface, I use a machinist surface plate, a piece of marble,plate glass would also work.Get a honing jig ( I use one from Lee Valley). Place the sandpaper onthe flat surface, I use 100 wet from the auto parts store. ( You firstneed to flatten the back of the blade, I assume you know how to dothis). Sharpen until you roll the edge over, remove the burr. Do itagain on 220 grit wet paper. Now get a leather belt for your verticalbelt sander. Get some yellow diamond honing compound from MSC or someother machinist supply ( second from the finest grit) put it on the beltand lightly apply the edge to the belt. Holding it by hand at a slightlysteeper angle then you did in the jig. You only need to get the edge.Sort of a micro second bevel. The belt goes away from not into the edgeor it will dig in and you will get hurt. You are stropping the edge likea barber does a razor. ( are you old enough to remember?) That's it. I do not use any of my stones any more. I've thought ofgetting a coarse diamond stone to use instead of sandpader. The man whoshowed me this used a belt sander with a coarse belt to get the firstedge. He used a drawer slide and makeshift holder to keep the bladesteady and held it by hand! The edge always came out a little concave.Then he put it in a vise and ran a diamond hand hone over it, testingthe edge for flatness on a surface plate. Finally the leather belt.Took him all of 5 minutes to put an incredible edge on a blade. Theblade edge was flat to less than a thousandth. Mike from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 29 07:50:09 2000 e7TCo8G06550 Subject: Re: Waterstones --=====================_169294==_.ALT Try Chris Bogart's site. It is there in the tool section. I have a Tormek system that has a 80 RPM wet stone wheel and a leather wheel. It is scary sharp when you hit it on the leather wheel. Worth a try.Bob At 07:35 PM 8/28/00 -0500, you wrote:Is this leather sharpening method on a web site somewhere Harry ? GMA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_169294==_.ALT Try Chris Bogart's site. It is there in the tool section. I have a Tormeksystem that has a 80 RPM wet stone wheel and a leather wheel. It is scarysharp when you hit it on the leather wheel. Worth a try.Bob At 07:35 PM 8/28/00 -0500, you wrote:Is this leather sharpening method on a website somewhere Harry ? GMA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_169294==_.ALT-- from rp43640@online-club.de Tue Aug 29 15:57:56 2000 e7TKvtG26231 (METDST) Subject: titebond II Does anybody have a website adress (or snail mail adress) for Titebond(II)?I am trying to get a datasheet to do a comparison. Would appreciate any help. Christian from tklein@amgen.com Tue Aug 29 16:37:25 2000 e7TLbOG27913 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: titebond II www.titebond.com The technical specs are online under "Products" "Titebond II"---Timx11521 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: titebond II Does anybody have a website adress (or snail mail adress) for Titebond(II)?I am trying to get a datasheet to do a comparison. Would appreciate any help. Christian from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Aug 29 17:13:54 2000 e7TMDrG29418 Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:11:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Bait Casting Tapers Here's the numbers directly from Charles K. Fox's book, Advanced baitCasting. The rod was made by Vince Marinaro. It is 6'-6" and the butt section is 39", and the tip is 38", with a Super Zferrule. The calibrations, starting at the butt end, and taken every 6" are:.440", .420", .400", .330", .285", .255", and 2" to .230" at the ferrule,which is 15/64". Tip, again every 6" is:.230", .215", ..190", ..170", .150", ..125". .095", and 3" to the tip to.088". NOTE: 1" is allowed for both the tip top, and the butt cap. Fox comments in the following text, that he intended to have this taperconverted to 5 strip construction, as he felt it would give ample strength,without being "clubby". The copyright is 1950, and a $3.95 price is on the hard bound cover ! Ichecked recently on a web site, and it is out of print, and valued at $75 ! I have a rod I scraped down to these dimensions from blanks I bought fromPHY, for $5/each, around 1954 ! I fished Bull Shoals in its "hey day" andcaught over 60 bass one day, using 1/4 oz. lures on this rod. It's stillarrow straight too ! GMA from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Aug 29 19:08:58 2000 e7U08wG03008 ;Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:08:51 +0000 Subject: Re: Waterstones George One of my students used one of the machines. It works quite well best used if you sharpen a couple of blades at a time. Chris On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:37:10 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote: George,There are some pictures on Chris Bogart's website, and acouple of my amateurish version of the same thing on the SRG websitein the pictures from 1998. Harry nobler wrote: Is this leather sharpening method on a web site somewhere Harry ? from dwdodd@yahoo.com Tue Aug 29 19:58:10 2000 e7U0w9G04373 2000 17:58:07 PDT Subject: unsubscibe rodmakers __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Aug 29 20:20:24 2000 e7U1KOG05029 Subject: catskill gathering Does someone have the Catskill gathering website handy (i deleted it by accident) Does any one know which camp site is close to the gathering?Thanks from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 29 20:23:21 2000 e7U1NLG05270 Subject: HandMill Bench --=====================_7263410==_.ALT I was wondering how others have solved the problem of finding a proper bench for the Hand Mill. I am certain that the flatter the bench the better the strips will be. I am happy with my results so far, but I can do better. I have just tried to drill some holes in my bench top to accommodate leaving the Hand Mill permanently mounted to it. Because the bench top was 2x10 it splintered in a million directions when drilled. Oops! So here's three questions:1. If I replace this with a milled rock maple 2x10x10' from a hardwood supplier, will it be easier to drill accurately because the wood is more stable and hard?2. Does milled hardwood come out dead flat? (Especially with the long length).3. Whose got a better idea? Please help. I should mention that I have the long bed version, so it is quite long.Many thanks as usual, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_7263410==_.ALT I was wondering how others have solved the problem of findinga proper bench for the Hand Mill. I am certain that the flatter the benchthe better the strips will be. I am happy with my results so far, but Ican do better. I have just tried to drill some holes in my bench top to accommodateleaving the Hand Mill permanently mounted to it. Because the bench topwas 2x10 it splintered in a million directions when drilled. Oops! So here's three questions:1. If I replace this with a milled rock maple 2x10x10' from ahardwood supplier, will it be easier to drill accurately because the woodis more stable and hard?2. Does milled hardwood come out dead flat? (Especially with thelong length).3. Whose got a better idea? Please help. I should mention that Ihave the long bed version, so it is quite long.Many thanks as usual, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_7263410==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Aug 29 20:43:21 2000 e7U1hKG06025 Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:44:59 -0500 Subject: Re: HandMill Bench Geez Bob, what sort of wood is that 2 x 10 ? Just drilling a holes, orseries of spaced holes shouldn't cause splitting. I almost ordered a longbed too, and now I'm glad I didn't due to bench space, I haven't got ! Now flat, non-warping boards are something I've been deeply into. The modelswe build must be true in all directions, and often we jig off these boards.Woods all have inner stresses, so that when cut, these are released, and thewood can take off into all sorts of warps. The way you get a warp free top,is to laminate it from narrow pieces, doweling when glued up, every 6" orso. This is then planed in a planer, and then precision sanded. Then youhave a warp free, and true board, or bench top. They are usually started from 2" stock, which ends up at about 1-3/4" after planing and sanding. Myboard is made from 1" x 2" strips, to a width of 18" x 48" long. It's 40years old, and still true. GMA from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 29 21:21:13 2000 e7U2LCG06975 Subject: Re: HandMill Bench --=====================_10738157==_.ALT Thanks. George. I think that 2x10 was pine. It really splintered badly.Bob At 08:48 PM 8/29/00 -0500, nobler wrote:Geez Bob, what sort of wood is that 2 x 10 ? Just drilling a holes, orseries of spaced holes shouldn't cause splitting. I almost ordered a longbed too, and now I'm glad I didn't due to bench space, I haven't got ! Now flat, non-warping boards are something I've been deeply into. Themodelswe build must be true in all directions, and often we jig off these boards.Woods all have inner stresses, so that when cut, these are released, andthewood can take off into all sorts of warps. The way you get a warp free top,is to laminate it from narrow pieces, doweling when glued up, every 6" orso. This is then planed in a planer, and then precision sanded. Then youhave a warp free, and true board, or bench top. They are usually started from 2" stock, which ends up at about 1-3/4" after planing and sanding. Myboard is made from 1" x 2" strips, to a width of 18" x 48" long. It's 40years old, and still true. GMA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_10738157==_.ALT Thanks. George. I think that 2x10 was pine. It really splinteredbadly.Bob At 08:48 PM 8/29/00 -0500, nobler wrote:Geez Bob, what sort of wood is that 2 x 10 ?Just drilling a holes, orseries of spaced holes shouldn't cause splitting. I almost ordered alongbed too, and now I'm glad I didn't due to bench space, I haven't got! Now flat, non-warping boards are something I've been deeply into. Themodelswe build must be true in all directions, and often we jig off theseboards.Woods all have inner stresses, so that when cut, these are released, andthewood can take off into all sorts of warps. The way you get a warp freetop,is to laminate it from narrow pieces, doweling when glued up, every6" orso. This is then planed in a planer, and then precision sanded. Thenyouhave a warp free, and true board, or bench top. They are usuallystarted from 2" stock, which ends up at about 1-3/4" after planing andsanding. Myboard is made from 1" x 2" strips, to a width of 18" x48" long. It's 40years old, and still true. GMA Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_10738157==_.ALT-- from conranch@ipeg.com Tue Aug 29 21:58:03 2000 e7U2w2G07873 Subject: Re: Handmill Bench This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C011F0.5CF42020 I find one of the best bench tops I can have in my shop is one made from =1 1/8 fir plywood. It can be obtained in most lumber supply centers and =may be called floor underlay. If I need a smoother surface on it I =overlay a sheet of 1/4" masonite. By attaching this plywood top to the =bench top frame with countersunk screws it is very stable. Then the =application of the masonite covers all the screws. Another trick to fill =screw head holes is to use bondo. It can be sanded when dry and normally =does not come out.I find this much more stable than to try and laminate a butcher block = Another option might be to obtain a solid core door from a salvage yard. =Only 80 inches in length could be a problem if you wanted something = Just my 2 cents worth from many years of working in my cabinet shop.Dennis ConradCONRANCH HACKLES http://members.tripod.com/CONRANCH/ ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C011F0.5CF42020 I find one of the best bench tops I can have in my shop is one made = 1/8 fir plywood. It can be obtained in most lumber supply centers and = called floor underlay. If I need a smoother surface on it I overlay a = 1/4" masonite. By attaching this plywood top to the bench top frame with = countersunk screws it is very stable. Then the application of the = covers all the screws. Another trick to fill screw head holes is to use = It can be sanded when dry and normally does not come out.I find this much more stable than to try and laminate a butcher = Another option might be to obtain a solid core door from a salvage = Only 80 inches in length could be a problem if you wanted something = cabinet = shop.Dennis Conrad conranch@ipeg.com http://members.tripod.com/CO= ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C011F0.5CF42020-- from dnorl@uswest.net Tue Aug 29 22:44:29 2000 e7U3iRG09038 (63.228.5.50) , Subject: Re: "scary Sharp" You can buy sand paper in all grades for about 35 cents a sheet fromABRASIVE RESOURSE at 1-800-814-7358 No finacial interest etc. etc.works for me!Dave-----Original Message----- oakmere@carol.net ; rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: "scary Sharp" I dont think the scary sharp system is all that expensive compared to itsspeed and convenience. I use a piece of plate glass about 12" by 16",free from my neighbourhood glazier. I spray glue with 3M adhesive (about$4.00) and apply four strips of paper cut a little wider than the planewidth. Abrasive grades are #320, #600, #1000, #1500, and I get at least3strips per sheet @ about $1.00 per sheet. I do about 10 strokes on eachgrade and I do it "off hand", no guide, then Buff the renewed cutting edgewith a leather wheel (Which I made for about $2.00) with green sharpeningcompound. I can sharpen the blades about 6 to 8 times before I need toreplace the strips of paper with fresh strips. Every 6 months to a year Ihone the blade edges on a Wen sharpener to re-establish the 65 degreecutting angle. but for day-to- day sharpening I use the scary sharp process.Each blade, including removal from the plane, sharpening, andre-installing and adjusting, takes less than 5 minutes. And there is nomessy oil or water!----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: "scary Sharp"Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:19 PM The scary sharp system produces extremely sharp edges. I'm not sure itisless costly, though. I started out using this system and abandoned itbecause I was going through sandpaper at quite a rate. In the long run,acombination waterstone (1000x/4000x) from a place such as Lee Valleyisless costly. After all, they sell a combination stone, honing guide, andangle jig as a "Sharpening Set" for $61.75 cdn, about $42 U.S. In no way associated, just a customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:32 PM Subject: RE: "scary Sharp" Hi Folks: Since I am getting ready to do something about sharpening blades - purchasing stones, diamond, paper, ?? - could someone plugme in on thismethod since it sounds interesting and less costly. Input andcomments please. Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA;570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from timklein@uswest.net Wed Aug 30 00:23:37 2000 e7U5NaG11111 (63.225.127.207) Subject: Re: HandMill Bench This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C01210.1F23F200 Bob, I'm just using a wooden solid core door that I happened to have laying =around. I started with it supported on a couple of sawhorses but I got a =tiny bit of flex in the center. Adding a third sawhorse in the center =did the trick. I had originally planned this as a temporary solution, =but now I'm not sure I'm going to bother building a new bench. The door =is sturdy and very flat, and I've now mounted a strip of moulding along =the back edge to keep stuff from rolling off. I've also added a board =across the sawhorse shelves to provide storage underneath. Depending on how deep your bench is, you could probably get away with a =single door for your long bed by cutting the door in half lengthwise. I originally tried it on my workbench but found it too high to get =really solid pressure on the plane. I also have the problem that my =workbench butts up against a wall. ---Tim Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:21 PMSubject: HandMill Bench I was wondering how others have solved the problem of finding a proper =bench for the Hand Mill. I am certain that the flatter the bench the =better the strips will be. I am happy with my results so far, but I can =do better. I have just tried to drill some holes in my bench top to accommodate =leaving the Hand Mill permanently mounted to it. Because the bench top =was 2x10 it splintered in a million directions when drilled. Oops! So here's three questions:1. If I replace this with a milled rock maple 2x10x10' from a hardwood =supplier, will it be easier to drill accurately because the wood is more =stable and hard?2. Does milled hardwood come out dead flat? (Especially with the long =length).3. Whose got a better idea? Please help. I should mention that I have =the long bed version, so it is quite long.Many thanks as usual, Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C01210.1F23F200 Bob, I'm just using a wooden solid core door that I = have laying around. I started with it supported on a couple of sawhorses = got a tiny bit of flex in the center. Adding a third sawhorse in the = shelves to provide storage underneath. = get away with a single door for your long bed by cutting the door in = lengthwise. I originally tried it on my workbench but found it = workbench butts up against a wall. ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- maulucci Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000= PMSubject: HandMill Bench I was wondering how others have solved the problem of finding a = bench for the Hand Mill. I am certain that the flatter the bench the = better.I have just tried to drill some holes in my bench top to = leaving the Hand Mill permanently mounted to it. Because the bench top = 2x10 it splintered in a million directions when drilled. =Oops!So here's three questions:1. If I replace this with a milled rock maple 2x10x10' from a = supplier, will it be easier to drill accurately because the wood is = stable and hard?2. Does milled hardwood come out dead flat? (Especially with the = length).3. Whose got a better idea? Please help. I should mention that I = long bed version, so it is quite long. =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Ddownandacross.com bob@downandacross.com = ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C01210.1F23F200-- from mep@mint.net Wed Aug 30 06:13:42 2000 e7UBDfG16236 0400 Subject: Morgan Mill Does the Morgan Mill have a web page? I checked the archives and could not find one. Mike from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Aug 30 06:51:49 2000 e7UBpnG16884 Subject: Re: Morgan Mill http://www.troutrods.com/ is the front page of Tom's site. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Morgan Mill Does the Morgan Mill have a web page? I checked the archives and could not find one. Mike from gjm80301@yahoo.com Wed Aug 30 08:22:22 2000 e7UDMLG19265 2000 06:24:18 PDT Subject: Re: "scary Sharp", Abrasives Here is a list of abrasive types. I have been happy with products from Klingspor also. http://www.sbn.com/states/800/frames/list/3291_1.html --- David Norling wrote:You can buy sand paper in all grades for about 35 cents a sheetfromABRASIVE RESOURSE at 1-800-814-7358 No finacial interest etc. etc.works for me!Dave-----Original Message-----From: Ted Knott oakmere@carol.net ; rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 11:29 PMSubject: Re: "scary Sharp" I dont think the scary sharp system is all that expensive comparedto itsspeed and convenience. I use a piece of plate glass about 12" by16",free from my neighbourhood glazier. I spray glue with 3M adhesive(about$4.00) and apply four strips of paper cut a little wider than theplanewidth. Abrasive grades are #320, #600, #1000, #1500, and I get atleast 3strips per sheet @ about $1.00 per sheet. I do about 10 strokeson eachgrade and I do it "off hand", no guide, then Buff the renewedcutting edgewith a leather wheel (Which I made for about $2.00) with greensharpeningcompound. I can sharpen the blades about 6 to 8 times before Ineed toreplace the strips of paper with fresh strips. Every 6 months toa year Ihone the blade edges on a Wen sharpener to re-establish the 65degreecutting angle. but for day-to-day sharpening I use the scary sharpprocess.Each blade, including removal from the plane, sharpening, andre-installing and adjusting, takes less than 5 minutes. And thereis nomessy oil or water!----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: "scary Sharp"Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:19 PM The scary sharp system produces extremely sharp edges. I'm notsure it isless costly, though. I started out using this system andabandoned itbecause I was going through sandpaper at quite a rate. In thelong run,acombination waterstone (1000x/4000x) from a place such as LeeValley isless costly. After all, they sell a combination stone, honingguide, andangle jig as a "Sharpening Set" for $61.75 cdn, about $42 U.S. In no way associated, just a customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu PaulSent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:32 PM Subject: RE: "scary Sharp" Hi Folks: Since I am getting ready to do something about sharpeningblades -purchasing stones, diamond, paper, ?? - could someone plugme in on thismethod since it sounds interesting and less costly. Input andcomments please. Thanks, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA;570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Aug 30 08:25:09 2000 e7UDP8G19461 0400 Subject: Anyone with a short Granger for sale? I apologize in advance if this is inappropriate, but if anyone goingto the Catskills gathering has a short (8' or less), higher modelGranger that they would consider selling, please bring it along. Iwould like one that is full length, excellent cosmetics, andpreferably original, but I am not a collector and just want a nicevintage rod I can fish. I am not looking for a "bargain", just a nicerod for a fair price. Feel free to contact me off list. Thanks, Andy from dhaftel@att.com Wed Aug 30 08:29:24 2000 e7UDTIG19838 JAA26150; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) Subject: RE: catskill gathering The URL is: http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: catskill gathering Does someone have the Catskill gathering website handy (i deleted it by accident) Does any one know which camp site is close to the gathering?Thanks from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Aug 30 08:41:30 2000 e7UDfTG20835 IAA16145 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 Subject: Re: "scary Sharp", Abrasives WRT abrasives, where can I obtain the "micron" type sandpaper I've seen mentioned here? Is it in specialty shops eg auto bodyor do you get it from distributors?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Aug 30 09:22:09 2000 e7UEM8G22449 Subject: Hand Mill Bench 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I've had to build inexpensive benches a couple of times, since I keepmoving into new houses. When time and expense are concerns, I've beenunable to do any better than MDF. 3/4" MDF is heavy, stable, and quiteflat. It will degrade over time if exposed to liquids, and while itdoesn't dent too badly, it gouges easily. For a long, heavy bench in ahurry, I'd consider a double layer of MDF, laminated with simple woodglue and screws applied from the underside, stagger the joints, thenbondo them. Screw holding capacity of MDF is not great, so bolt throughit if you want to attach something permanently. By the way, the offcutsapplied to the wall behind the bench, make a great splash guard. For aneven smoother surface that will stand up to solvents better, you couldadd plastic laminate, or even try to find a plant that manufactureskitchen countertops, they usually have a seconds pile. Of course,nothing beats a "real" bench made of laminated hard maple with all theappropriate bench dog holes, shoulder and side vises, etc., but thatgets expensive quickly. from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Aug 30 09:26:35 2000 e7UEQZG22786 Aug 2000 10:26:12 -0400 Subject: Re: HandMill Bench I made a bench using 1 inch plywood and half inch Luan mahogany plywoodglued on with contact cement for the surface. I used Luan mahogany onlybecause it was the cheapest type that was made for appearance sake, andtherefore flat and straight. I'm sure the birch surfaced plywood would workjust as well. Tung oil is the finish I used on the bench top mostly because if Ishould scratch or gouge the top a little sanding and a little more tung oil, andit's fixed. All that aside, this is what I did to greatly increase the convenience using theMorgan Handmill - Drill holes through your bench lined up with the set screwson the bottom of the Mill rail. You can change anvils and set your tapers withthe Mill remaining bolted down on the bench. Don't set your rail down and drillthrough it using it as a template - you will narf up the threads. The easiestway is to mark the holes and use a plunge router. That keeps the holesperpendicular to the bench top. Or if you are good and steady with a handdrill, go for it.Darryl from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Aug 30 12:04:42 2000 e7UH4eG29513 Subject: Aesthetic Decisions I'm refinishing a rod for my bro. and sis-in-law. The rod is garbage,but it was her grandpa's, and he obviously fished it quite often and fora long time. The guides have been replaced once, with nylon thread, andthere is an overcoat of varnish on the whole thing. Faced with theoptions (restore it so it can continue to be the cheap rod it alwayswas, or rebuild it with top-quality hardware and turn it, at leastcosmetically, into the rod grandpa probably wished he could own, theychose the latter). May seem silly, but they want to spend the money onreally nice modern components, even if it just turns into a wall-hanger,though they will fish it if it casts a decent line. Sis-in-law is athoroughly modern type, and is into strong, bold colors. She is alsothe type that can appreciate taking an old item and totally renewing itto modern tastes (e.g., she sometimes turns antique furniture intomodern with aggressive modification and paint). Although I don't likeher taste, I'm doing this rod for her so I want her to love it. I knowthat she'd love the rod (a light blonde cane) if I wrapped the guides ina royal or periwinkle blue and did the intermediates in gold. Cananyone recommend particular silk threads (and a source) to deliver thesebold colors? from FlyfishT@aol.com Wed Aug 30 12:17:49 2000 e7UHHnG00316 Subject: catskill gathering Thanks to all who responded to the web site info. Glad to see there is a morgan hand mill going to be there . Tom from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Wed Aug 30 13:54:35 2000 e7UIsYG04085 0000 Subject: Dickerson 801611 - D I had a customer bring in a beautiful Dickerson 801611 - D. He knows it isworth a bundle but wouldlike a more accurate figure. It is in excellent condition, but the cane inthe mid section is slightlylighter at the but but end but changes to the same color at the tip. It haswhat appears to be theoriginal hardware: downlocking reelseat with wood insert that matches theone pictured in the Riffle &Poole Address book by Jim Adams (the only picture of a Dickerson I haveseen, it has a ring hookkkeeper,four signature wraps blue spigot ferrules and an agate stripping guide andbrown silk wraps with black trim.I will follow-up with the results of micing it with my next post. If anyonehas an idea of the value andif the cane color might indicate a repair or restoration, let me know. Thanks, Jeremy Gray from Bamboomaker@aol.com Wed Aug 30 14:10:57 2000 e7UJAuG04928 Subject: Re: HandMill Bench Bob, I mounted my Handmill on a piece of stock 1" x 6" x 10 foot finished walnut available at local hardware stores that carry shelving/hobby wood. It had a very flat surface and it was straight as an arrow. It also cost $14.00 on sale. I then mounted the walnut plank with the mill fastened to it to my bench (made of melamine fibreboard). Well over a year without problems. Hope this helps Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, MDRochester, MN from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Wed Aug 30 14:38:21 2000 e7UJcLG06220 0000 Subject: dickerson 801611 taper Here is the taper for the Dickerson. I miced all three directions and giveall 3. There is also the finish to contend with. 0" .072 .073 .0775" .086 .088 .08810" .108 .109 .10915" .126 .127 .12620" .141 .142 .14125" .154 .154 .15530" .161 .160 .16035" .197 .197 .19740" .202 .202 .20045" .215 .218 .22050" .219 .222 .22255" .233 .233 .22860" .247 .245 .24965" .262 .264 .26570" .277 .277 .27775" .294 .293 .29280" .317 .320 .320 Obviously I couldn't measure it under the grip or reelseat. from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Aug 30 14:50:04 2000 e7UJo3G06912 "Carl O'Connor" , "Ray Blades","Derek Strub" , "James Bond","Jorge Carcao" , "Mark Babiy","Mike Rowan" , "Roy DeGiusti" ,"Ted Knott" Subject: Fw: PHONE SCAM ----------From: David Calderisi Subject: PHONE SCAMDate: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 1:43 PM FYI - Do NOT push 90# on your home phone Got a call last night from an individual identifying himself asan AT&T Service technician who was conducting a test on ourtelephone lines. He stated that to complete the test I should touch nine 9), zero(0),the pound sign (#) and then hang up. Luckily, I was suspicious andrefused. Upon contacting the telephone company, I was informed that your telephone line,which allows them to place long distancetelephone calls billed to your home phone number. I was furtherinformed that this scam has been originating from many of the localjails/prisons. I have also verified this information with UCBtelecomm, Pacific Bell, MCI, Bell Atlantic, GTE and NYNEX. Pleasebeware. DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. The GTE Security Departmentrequested that I share this information with EVERYONE I KNOW. PLEASEpass this on to everyone YOU know. If you have mailing lists and/or newsletters from organizations youare connected with, encourage you to pass this on. Meredith Williams 216c Peel Regional Police 12 Division Crime AnalystTel: 905-453-3311 x1270Fax: 905-624-5180email: Meredith.Williams@peelpolice.on.ca Traci from rp43640@online-club.de Wed Aug 30 15:06:19 2000 e7UK6IG07634 Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:06:11 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: titebond II Thank you Tim, Christian "Klein, Tim" wrote: www.titebond.com The technical specs are online under "Products" "Titebond II"---Timx11521 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: titebond II Does anybody have a website adress (or snail mail adress) for Titebond(II)?I am trying to get a datasheet to do a comparison. Would appreciate any help. Christian from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 30 15:36:39 2000 e7UKacG09333 Subject: Re: Dickerson 801611 - D --=====================_35481329==_.ALT Jeremy:Dick Spurr's catalog of Spring 2000 lists that model as being worth 2,800 in the collector value section. Just funny I was browsing the catalog when reading this.Best regards,Bob At 11:55 AM 8/30/00 -0700, Jeremy Gray wrote:I had a customer bring in a beautiful Dickerson 801611 - D. He knows it isworth a bundle but wouldlike a more accurate figure. It is in excellent condition, but the cane inthe mid section is slightlylighter at the but but end but changes to the same color at the tip. It haswhat appears to be theoriginal hardware: downlocking reelseat with wood insert that matches theone pictured in the Riffle &Poole Address book by Jim Adams (the only picture of a Dickerson I haveseen, it has a ring hookkkeeper,four signature wraps blue spigot ferrules and an agate stripping guide andbrown silk wraps with black trim.I will follow-up with the results of micing it with my next post. If anyonehas an idea of the value andif the cane color might indicate a repair or restoration, let me know. Thanks, Jeremy Gray Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_35481329==_.ALT Jeremy:Dick Spurr's catalog of Spring 2000 lists that model as being worth 2,800in the collector value section. Just funny I was browsing the catalogwhen reading this.Best regards,Bob At 11:55 AM 8/30/00 -0700, Jeremy Gray wrote:I had a customer bring in a beautiful worth a bundle but would cane inthe mid section is slightlylighter at the but but end but changes to the same color at the what appears to be theoriginal hardware: downlocking reelseat with wood insert that matchestheone pictured in the Riffle &Poole Address book by Jim Adams (the only picture of a Dickerson Ihaveseen, it has a ring hookkkeeper,four signature wraps blue spigot ferrules and an agate stripping guideandbrown silk wraps with black trim. If anyonehas an idea of the value andif the cane color might indicate a repair or restoration, let meknow. Thanks, Jeremy Gray Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_35481329==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 30 15:50:15 2000 e7UKoEG10125 Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:51:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Decisions Golden Witch has some "hot" colors. GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Aug 30 17:25:46 2000 e7UMPjG14443 (204.186.211.151) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Dickerson 801611 - D Jeremy/Bob, Even though I think that rod is an 8' for #7/8 I believe ifthat rod was offered at Lang's auction in MA it would bring between$4000-$5000. The mid sounds like it might have been replaced. But maybenot. Talk about sitting on the fence. Marty Jeremy:Dick Spurr's catalog of Spring 2000 lists that model as being worth2,800 in the collector value section. Just funny I was browsing thecatalog when reading this.Best regards,Bob At 11:55 AM 8/30/00 -0700, Jeremy Gray wrote: I had a customer bring in a beautiful Dickerson 801611 - D.He knows it isworth a bundle but wouldlike a more accurate figure. It is in excellent condition,but the cane inthe mid section is slightlylighter at the but but end but changes to the same color atthe tip. It haswhat appears to be theoriginal hardware: downlocking reelseat with wood insertthat matches theone pictured in the Riffle &Poole Address book by Jim Adams (the only picture of aDickerson I haveseen, it has a ring hookkkeeper,four signature wraps blue spigot ferrules and an agatestripping guide andbrown silk wraps with black trim.I will follow-up with the results of micing it with my nextpost. If anyonehas an idea of the value andif the cane color might indicate a repair or restoration,let me know. Thanks, Jeremy Gray Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 30 17:55:32 2000 e7UMtWG15438 Subject: Re: Dickerson 801611 - D --=====================_43807534==_.ALT That is probably true Marty. It's worth whatever someone will pay for it. I bet that the Dickerson's will continue to go through the roof.Bob At 06:16 PM 8/30/00 -0400, marty wrote:Jeremy/Bob, Even though I think that rod is an 8' for #7/8 I believe ifthat rod was offered at Lang's auction in MA it would bring between$4000-$5000. The mid sounds like it might have been replaced. But maybenot. Talk about sitting on the fence. Marty Jeremy:Dick Spurr's catalog of Spring 2000 lists that model as being worth2,800 in the collector value section. Just funny I was browsing thecatalog when reading this.Best regards,Bob At 11:55 AM 8/30/00 -0700, Jeremy Gray wrote: I had a customer bring in a beautiful Dickerson 801611 - D.He knows it isworth a bundle but wouldlike a more accurate figure. It is in excellent condition,but the cane inthe mid section is slightlylighter at the but but end but changes to the same color atthe tip. It haswhat appears to be theoriginal hardware: downlocking reelseat with wood insertthat matches theone pictured in the Riffle &Poole Address book by Jim Adams (the only picture of aDickerson I haveseen, it has a ring hookkkeeper,four signature wraps blue spigot ferrules and an agatestripping guide andbrown silk wraps with black trim.I will follow-up with the results of micing it with my nextpost. If anyonehas an idea of the value andif the cane color might indicate a repair or restoration,let me know. Thanks, Jeremy Gray Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_43807534==_.ALT That is probably true Marty. It's worth whatever someone will pay for it.I bet that the Dickerson's will continue to go through the roof.Bob At 06:16 PM 8/30/00 -0400, marty wrote:Jeremy/Bob, Even though I think that rod is an8' for #7/8 I believe ifthat rod was offered at Lang's auction in MA it would bring between$4000-$5000. The mid sounds like it might have been replaced. Butmaybenot. Talk about sitting on the fence. Marty worth the Dickerson 801611 - D. is in excellent condition, to the same color at reelseat with wood insert (theonly picture of a ferrules and an agate trim. micing it with my next repair or restoration, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_43807534==_.ALT-- from saweiss@flash.net Wed Aug 30 23:27:40 2000 e7V4RdG23436 Subject: Re: "scary Sharp", Abrasives Frank,I got mine from Japan Woodworkers.Steve WRT abrasives, where can I obtain the "micron" type sandpaper I've seen mentioned here? Is it in specialty shops eg auto bodyor do you get it from distributors?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from saweiss@flash.net Wed Aug 30 23:35:47 2000 e7V4ZkG23712 Subject: Re: dickerson 801611 taper Jeremy, can you give us the guide spacing?Thanks, Steve Here is the taper for the Dickerson. I miced all three directions andgiveall 3. There is also the finish to contend with. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Aug 30 23:37:33 2000 e7V4bXG23855 21:37:31 PDT Subject: Re: "scary Sharp", Abrasives try this --- "Steven A. Weiss" wrote:Frank,I got mine from Japan Woodworkers.Steve WRT abrasives, where can I obtain the "micron" typesandpaper I've seen mentioned here? Is it in specialtyshops eg auto bodyor do you get it from distributors? ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...acheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than awaterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman'sLuck", 1899. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Aug 31 06:28:28 2000 e7VBSRG29727 Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:28:22 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Dickerson 801611 - D Jeremy Do not think the mid was replaced - I have seen different coloron dickerson sections - also look at the taper numbers - even over varnishwill tell you - this rod is virtually dead on across all flats - a good sign of a dickerson - if the mid was replaced it most likely was done by the "master"himself. This rod will bring full value and most likely still catch fish. chrisOn Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:16:06 -0400, marty wrote: Jeremy/Bob, Even though I think that rod is an 8' for #7/8 I believe ifthat rod was offered at Lang's auction in MA it would bring between$4000-$5000. The mid sounds like it might have been replaced. But maybenot. Talk about sitting on the fence. Marty Jeremy:Dick Spurr's catalog of Spring 2000 lists that model as being worth2,800 in the collector value section. Just funny I was browsing thecatalog when reading this.Best regards,Bob At 11:55 AM 8/30/00 -0700, Jeremy Gray wrote: I had a customer bring in a beautiful Dickerson 801611 - D.He knows it isworth a bundle but wouldlike a more accurate figure. It is in excellent condition,but the cane inthe mid section is slightlylighter at the but but end but changes to the same color atthe tip. It haswhat appears to be theoriginal hardware: downlocking reelseat with wood insertthat matches theone pictured in the Riffle &Poole Address book by Jim Adams (the only picture of aDickerson I haveseen, it has a ring hookkkeeper,four signature wraps blue spigot ferrules and an agatestripping guide andbrown silk wraps with black trim.I will follow-up with the results of micing it with my nextpost. If anyonehas an idea of the value andif the cane color might indicate a repair or restoration,let me know. Thanks, Jeremy Gray Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from jlintvet@mediaone.net Thu Aug 31 07:00:57 2000 e7VC0uG00383 Subject: Colorado Springs? I will be in Colorado Springs, CO on business just following Roscoe. Lookslike I have some time on the 12th to fish and was hoping someone in the areamight want to get together. I spoke with Brad at the "Peak fly shop?" andsounds like the South Platte is fishing well. Thanks in advance. Jon M. Lintvet1007 W. Franklin St. #3Richmond, VA 23220http://www.MunroRodCo.com(804) 340-1848 (evenings) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Dickerson 801611 - D Jeremy Do not think the mid was replaced - I have seen different coloron dickerson sections - also look at the taper numbers - even over varnishwill tell you - this rod is virtually dead on across all flats - a goodsign of adickerson - if the mid was replaced it most likely was done by the"master"himself. This rod will bring full value and most likely still catch fish. chrisOn Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:16:06 -0400, marty wrote: Jeremy/Bob, Even though I think that rod is an 8' for #7/8 I believe ifthat rod was offered at Lang's auction in MA it would bring between$4000-$5000. The mid sounds like it might have been replaced. Butmaybenot. Talk about sitting on the fence. Marty Jeremy:Dick Spurr's catalog of Spring 2000 lists that model as being worth2,800 in the collector value section. Just funny I was browsing thecatalog when reading this.Best regards,Bob At 11:55 AM 8/30/00 -0700, Jeremy Gray wrote: I had a customer bring in a beautiful Dickerson 801611 - D.He knows it isworth a bundle but wouldlike a more accurate figure. It is in excellent condition,but the cane inthe mid section is slightlylighter at the but but end but changes to the same color atthe tip. It haswhat appears to be theoriginal hardware: downlocking reelseat with wood insertthat matches theone pictured in the Riffle &Poole Address book by Jim Adams (the only picture of aDickerson I haveseen, it has a ring hookkkeeper,four signature wraps blue spigot ferrules and an agatestripping guide andbrown silk wraps with black trim.I will follow-up with the results of micing it with my nextpost. If anyonehas an idea of the value andif the cane color might indicate a repair or restoration,let me know. Thanks, Jeremy Gray Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Aug 31 10:28:59 2000 e7VFSxG12594 Aug 2000 11:28:37 2000 Subject: Glues Marking the end of my sixth year of bamboo fly rod making, and in going overmy notes I tallied up the glue failures. Gluing splines - One failure: URACOther glues I have used: Titebond II, Titebond II Extend, long setting epoxy,Epon, polyurethane, resourcinol Gluing ferrules - Two failures: 5 minute epoxy and PliobondOther glues I have used: Long setting epoxy, Epon, polyurethane, resourcinol,URAC, Gudebrod Tip Top hot melt glue. Darryl from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Aug 31 10:32:36 2000 e7VFWaG12897 Subject: Glues Daryll's post about glues he has used got me thinking. The Gudebrod hotmelt tip top glue looks just like some other hot glue sticks I have.Does anyone know if there is anything special about the Gudebrod, or isit just the same old brown hot melt glue that WWers and Crafters use? from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Aug 31 10:46:35 2000 e7VFkZG13685 Aug 2000 11:46:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Glues The Gudebrod tip top hot melt glue seems to melt at a higher temperaturethan most craft store hot melt glues. Gudebrod does sell a ferrule hot meltglue that I haven't actually tried on a ferrule because it melted so easily anddidn't seem as strong.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Thu Aug 31 11:11:05 2000 e7VGB5G15032 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:05:11 -0500 Subject: website update This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0340_01C0133B.F7B7F400 If you gentlemen don't mind, would you go to my site and look over the =new addition. It's called "Caneman's Adventure Pictures", and is just =pics of fishing trips and fish from this summer. Any comments, =suggestions, etc for making it better would be greatly appreciated. I =know I have to do something different for the link jpeg on the main =page, but want your input on the page itself.Nothing commercial here, guys... this is just a fun page inside the =website... Thanks,Bob http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0340_01C0133B.F7B7F400 If you gentlemen don't mind, would you go to my site and look over = suggestions, etc for making it better would be greatly = I have to do something different for the link jpeg on the main page, but = your input on the page itself. inside the website... Thanks, tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm= ------=_NextPart_000_0340_01C0133B.F7B7F400-- from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Aug 31 13:20:49 2000 e7VIKhG21320 0000 (204.186.33.89) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Glues Ferrule-Tite hot melt is a much better product. It's all I have beenusing on ferrules for the past 5 years. It is available from GoldenWitch or archery supplies. Marty The Gudebrod tip top hot melt glue seems to melt at a higher temperaturethan most craft store hot melt glues. Gudebrod does sell a ferrule hot meltglue that I haven't actually tried on a ferrule because it melted so easily anddidn't seem as strong.Darryl melt tip top glue looks just like some other hot glue sticks I have.Does anyone know if there is anything special about the Gudebrod, or isit just the same old brown hot melt glue that WWers and Crafters use? from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Aug 31 15:05:31 2000 e7VK5VG26139 Aug 2000 16:05:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Glues Please define "much better product".It might be that it is, but why?Darryl from Oozakgpt@aol.com Thu Aug 31 15:19:40 2000 e7VKJdG26929 Subject: Ferrule glue Anyone using shafting epoxy(for golf clubs)for their ferrules?TIA Greg T from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Aug 31 16:32:32 2000 e7VLWVG29705 (204.186.33.69) Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Glues marty wrote: It tends to stay "plastic" longer as it cools which allows you moretime to nest the serrations. I also feel it has a stronger hold than theolder heat glues. I don't pin my ferrules and have yet to lose one.Marty Please define "much better product".It might be that it is, but why?Darryl using on ferrules for the past 5 years. It is available from GoldenWitch or archery supplies. Marty from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Aug 31 16:33:14 2000 e7VLXDG29802 OAA07010; Subject: Re: Ferrule glue Yup, I have been. Only 4- 5 rods worth, but has worked well for me. Seemedlike a good idea when I heard about it, and it seems to be pretty goodstuff. I mix epoxies on a marble tile piece I had laying around, cleaningup with a razor blade after it hardens a little. The shafting epoxy is alot tougher to get off than the 5 minute stuff. Haven't compared to Epon,though, since I don't use the tile for doing the Epon. FWIW, mac Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: Anyone using shafting epoxy(for golf clubs)for their ferrules?TIA Greg T from yves@hwy97.net Thu Aug 31 16:50:06 2000 e7VLo5G00657 Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:50:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrule glue Yes, and for other glue joints such as reel seats and cork handles. Theepoxy beads are also useful if the fit-up is less than perfect. It setsrock hard as you may know. Dave At 04:19 PM 8/31/00 EDT, Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote:Anyone using shafting epoxy(for golf clubs)for their ferrules?TIA Greg T from bob@downandacross.com Thu Aug 31 16:55:54 2000 e7VLtrG01148 Subject: Re: Ferrule glue --=====================_32890301==_.ALT Dave:What are epoxy beads? Sorry for my ignorance.Thanks,Bob At 02:47 PM 8/31/00 -0700, David La Touche wrote:Yes, and for other glue joints such as reel seats and cork handles. Theepoxy beads are also useful if the fit-up is less than perfect. It setsrock hard as you may know. Dave At 04:19 PM 8/31/00 EDT, Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote:Anyone using shafting epoxy(for golf clubs)for their ferrules?TIA Greg T Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_32890301==_.ALT Dave:What are epoxy beads? Sorry for my ignorance.Thanks,Bob At 02:47 PM 8/31/00 -0700, David La Touche wrote:Yes, and for other glue joints such as reel sets At 04:19 PM 8/31/00 EDT, Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: Greg T Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_32890301==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Aug 31 18:08:16 2000 e7VN8FG04256 Subject: Hand Mill Bench --=====================_37231131==_.ALT Thanks to everyone who responded with the usual creative and sensible ideas found in this list's membership. Just FYI, I decided to follow the master's (Tom Morgan himself) advice and bought some 3/8 thick angled aluminum stock. I will use this to permanently affix the Hand Mill to the bench edge. It will provide a good flat surface and not moving the Mill will help with accuracy. I think Tom may propose his findings to us soon, but until then I am giving it a shot.Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com-- =====================_37231131==_.ALT Thanks to everyone who responded with the usual creative andsensible ideas found in this list's membership. Just FYI, I decided tofollow themaster's (Tom Morgan himself) advice and bought some 3/8 thickangled aluminum stock. I will use this to permanently affix the Hand Millto the bench edge. It will provide a good flat surface and not moving theMill will help with accuracy. I think Tom may propose his findings to ussoon, but until then I am giving it a shot.Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com --=====================_37231131==_.ALT-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 31 19:04:32 2000 e8104WG05732 ;Fri, 1 Sep 2000 00:04:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Ferrule glue I started using golf shafting epoxy after a 5 minute epoxy failure. Itis all I use now. Steve Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: Anyone using shafting epoxy(for golf clubs)for their ferrules?TIA Greg T from can@telusplanet.net Thu Aug 31 19:28:50 2000 e810SnG06370 0600 Subject: 8015 Guide Special I believe this Dickerson was posted in the list but can't find it, cananyone point me to taper. I have taper from Howell's book but would liketo check it.-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Aug 31 20:32:01 2000 e811W0G07955 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Hand Mill Bench Bob -- I don't get just how you're using the stock, would you say more about it? Thanks -- Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Hand Mill Bench Thanks to everyone who responded with the usual creative and sensible master's (Tom Morgan himself) advice and bought some 3/8 thick angledaluminum stock. I will use this to permanently affix the Hand Mill tothe bench edge. It will provide a good flat surface and not moving theMill will help with accuracy. I think Tom may propose his findings to ussoon, but until then I am giving it a shot.Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com bob@downandacross.com