e8JH7mG07512 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: reaming a grip I chuck a 10" rat tail file in the lathe and open up the individual corkrings by sliding them up the rotating file. The first 6" of the file istapered so you can get a good fit on each ring. I slip these onto the buttblank for a trial fit and number them so as to keep them in the properorder. I do the same with pre- glued grips, but find that I may have tobuild up the blank with masking tape where ever the hole is a littleoversize. ----------From: Seth Steinzor Subject: reaming a gripDate: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:03 AM What kind of reamer do you use to fit a cork grip to your rod? I'vetriedusing a sharpened piece of copper tube in a drill press as a punch togetthe rings to size, one by one, but that was time-consuming andunsatisfactory since the holes did not all line up exactly upon gluingtherings together, despite my efforts to center them in the press. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Sep 19 16:59:57 2000 e8JLxhG20978 Subject: Re: reaming a grip Organization: vet Seth I use a 15" rattail file - screw it in and pull it out (over & over & over).I can also fit it into my drill and power ream a bit where I ant to gofaster. I NEVER touch the very last 1/8" or so at the front end (windingcheck), but just let that form up hexagonal on pressure. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: reaming a grip What kind of reamer do you use to fit a cork grip to your rod? I'vetriedusing a sharpened piece of copper tube in a drill press as a punch togetthe rings to size, one by one, but that was time-consuming andunsatisfactory since the holes did not all line up exactly upon gluingtherings together, despite my efforts to center them in the press. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Sep 19 17:14:58 2000 e8JMEvG21611 Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:12:06 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Productopia Metal Lathes I got "Forbidden" when I tried that web site ! GMA from bob@downandacross.com Tue Sep 19 18:16:18 2000 e8JNGHG23809 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Productopia Metal Lathes --=====================_9169662==_.ALT Hi George, try this:http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.htmlCool site. Thanks Richard.Best regards,Bob At 05:19 PM 9/19/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I got "Forbidden" when I tried that web site ! GMABoBob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_9169662==_.ALT Hi George, try this:http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.htmlCool site. Thanks Richard.Best regards,Bob At 05:19 PM 9/19/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I got "Forbidden" when I tried thatweb site ! GMABo Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_9169662==_.ALT-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Sep 19 18:54:28 2000 e8JNsRG24876 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: Productopia Metal Lathes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0226D.C1D1B6A0 Another useful page to this site is the following: http://www.lathes.co.uk/page2.html This gives advice on buying a small lathe. Richard-----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 7:13 PM Subject: Re: Productopia Metal Lathes Hi George, try this:http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.htmlCool site. Thanks Richard.Best regards,Bob At 05:19 PM 9/19/00 -0500, nobler wrote: I got "Forbidden" when I tried that web site ! GMABoBob Mauluccidownandacross.com Split Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0226D.C1D1B6A0 following: http://www.lathes.co.uk/page2=.html gives advice on buying a small lathe. Richard 19, = = LathesHi George, try this:http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.htmlCool = Richard.Best regards,BobAt 05:19 PM 9/19/00 -0500, = wrote:I got "Forbidden" when I tried that web = Split = and Silk Lines ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0226D.C1D1B6A0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Sep 19 22:29:43 2000 e8K3TgG29488 Subject: Re: turning a grip ON a rod Dave,Like Frank Stetzer, I've been turning handles on my blanks using 2 sets of adjustable ball bearings (bought from Dale Clemens) and using a tube of fiberglass in front of the grip and masking the cap and/or ring (or the insert if it isn't mortised) and the power source is a hand drill mounted on a stand which is bolted to a foot square piece of plywood which is clamped to the bench. In your case you'd have to split the fiberglass tube to get it on the rod and tape guides opposite the ones already mounted to cut down the vibration. Either that or remove the guides in which case you won't have to split the fiberglass tube to get it on the rod.Works for me.Regards,Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Sep 19 22:53:09 2000 e8K3r8G00032 +0000 Subject: Catskill Gathering - More photos posted To All I just posted the second and third page of photos. Hope you all like. I had so many but wanted to give a good representative viewof the gathering. Chris from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Sep 19 23:33:59 2000 e8K4XwG01112 Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:33:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering - More photos posted Great job, again, Chris. I do miss the little pop up notes Thanks,Harry Chris Bogart wrote: I just posted the second and third page of photos. from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Sep 20 06:24:51 2000 e8KBOoG06351 ;Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:24:41 +0000 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering - More photos posted Harry I am on travel (Atlanta) and doing this as time permitson my portable - however I will identify the Bait Fisherman Chris On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:32:47 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote: Great job, again, Chris. I do miss the little pop up notes Thanks,Harry Chris Bogart wrote: I just posted the second and third page of photos. from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Sep 20 06:50:33 2000 e8KBoWG07101 Subject: Re: reaming a grip How about a big rat-tailed file? Works for me. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: reaming a grip What kind of reamer do you use to fit a cork grip to your rod? I'vetriedusing a sharpened piece of copper tube in a drill press as a punch togetthe rings to size, one by one, but that was time-consuming andunsatisfactory since the holes did not all line up exactly upon gluingtherings together, despite my efforts to center them in the press. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Sep 20 08:00:22 2000 e8KD0LG08232 Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:00:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering - More photos posted Chris Bogart wrote: I am on travel (Atlanta) and doing this as time permitson my portable - however I will identify the Bait Fisherman Tell you what, Chris. I'll swap you some nodes for someinformation! Harry from dhaftel@att.com Wed Sep 20 08:38:02 2000 e8KDc1G09770 JAA01046; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) Subject: RE: Catskill Gathering - More photos posted Chris, He might pay you NOT to! Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering - More photos posted Harry I am on travel (Atlanta) and doing this as time permitson my portable - however I will identify the Bait Fisherman Chris On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:32:47 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote: Great job, again, Chris. I do miss the little pop up notes Thanks,Harry Chris Bogart wrote: I just posted the second and third page of photos. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Sep 20 09:30:41 2000 e8KEUeG12093 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: E.C. Powell Tapers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C022E8.289CDDE0 Hi Chris, Have you received any tapers off-list? Nothing has been posted yet. If you don't receive anything, you should contact Chris LuckerCALucker@aol.com. He's a big Powell fan and owns quite a few of his rods. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 9:55 AM Subject: E.C. Powell Tapers To All:I wish to catalog as many E.C. Powell tapers as are now available to themembers of this list. Would you be so kind as to post them, with E.C.Powell Taper in the Subject area? Also, if you know of urls where they arelisted, please post. Thank-you in advance. Off-topic may contact meoff- list.Thanks,Chris Raine ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C022E8.289CDDE0 Chris, yet. don't receive anything, you should contact Chris Lucker CALucker@aol.com. He's a bigPowell = owns quite a few of his rods. Richard RaineSent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 9:55 = TapersTo All:I wish to catalog as many E.C. = Thanks, Raine ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C022E8.289CDDE0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Sep 20 14:51:19 2000 e8KJp5G01089 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: EC Powell tapers Gang, Just got in a Walton Powell Companion set that is mint unfished, do you wantthe tapers of this rod before I sell them? I know they aren't EC... They are marked #1-691 Lines #3-#4-#5 Semi-hollow. I suppose I can askWalt when I see him next month, but perhaps someone knows the numberingsystem code of #1-691... This pair of twin two piece single tip rods aremarked identically and weigh the same as per the owners request that thispair be the same as opposed to different tips. The set comprises of twomirror butts and two mirror tips. Thanks in advance for your help. Darrellwww.vfish.net from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Sep 20 15:14:53 2000 e8KKEpG02201 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:07:10 -0700 Subject: Garrison 193 e8KKEqG02202 prefer, and why? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Wed Sep 20 16:01:05 2000 e8KL14G04152 Rod Makers Subject: RE: EC Powell tapers please share the tapers and information regarding the work of the powells.i know i am quite interested in the tapers, and the theories behind them(several old planing form issues have delt with the topic, including amonograph written by ed hartzell, a member of this list). i think others must share this interest too. thanks in advance. chris o -----Original Message----- Subject: EC Powell tapers Gang, Just got in a Walton Powell Companion set that is mint unfished, do you wantthe tapers of this rod before I sell them? I know they aren't EC... They are marked #1-691 Lines #3-#4-#5 Semi-hollow. I suppose I can askWalt when I see him next month, but perhaps someone knows the numberingsystem code of #1-691... This pair of twin two piece single tip rods aremarked identically and weigh the same as per the owners request that thispair be the same as opposed to different tips. The set comprises of twomirror butts and two mirror tips. Thanks in advance for your help. Darrellwww.vfish.net from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Sep 20 16:16:13 2000 e8KLG8G04930 Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:34:04 -0500 Subject: Re: E.C. Powell Tapers While speaking of tapers, I've chosen the PHY Para. #15 as my first rod, butcan find nothing on the guide spacing. Anyone have this, please ? GMA from mevans@acxiom.com Wed Sep 20 17:20:47 2000 e8KMKiG07227 crichton.acxiom.com for;Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:26:15 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: Dickerson 7613 Guide Spacing Anyone have guide spacing for a 7613?Thanks, from ddeloach@pcisys.net Wed Sep 20 21:28:23 2000 e8L2SMG13380 Subject: Re: EC Powell tapers I have an Ed Powell 8'6" 5wt, circa 1950. It is a Maslan built Powell. I canpost the taper if anyone wants it. Don DeLoach-----Original Message----- Subject: EC Powell tapers Gang, Just got in a Walton Powell Companion set that is mint unfished, do youwantthe tapers of this rod before I sell them? I know they aren't EC... They are marked #1-691 Lines #3-#4-#5 Semi-hollow. I suppose I canaskWalt when I see him next month, but perhaps someone knows the numberingsystem code of #1-691... This pair of twin two piece single tip rods aremarked identically and weigh the same as per the owners request that thispair be the same as opposed to different tips. The set comprises of twomirror butts and two mirror tips. Thanks in advance for your help. Darrellwww.vfish.net from bamboorods@siskiyou.net Wed Sep 20 21:48:59 2000 e8L2mwG13966 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64293U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:39:08 -0700 Subject: Don DeLoach This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0233B.48682000 Hi Don, TIAChris ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0233B.48682000 Hi Don, post.TIAChris ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0233B.48682000-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Sep 21 04:28:23 2000 e8L9SLG20125 Subject: Re: Photofixer for bluing Organization: vet Martin The planing form thing seems to be sorting itself out, thanks, but it doesnot seem to lend itself to a solution which relieves me of the need tomeasure the damn blank every nanosecond. My friend radiused the push screws, and that seems to help, and I will gethim to dowel it when he has the time spare on his schedule. If I could work out how to use the ##!!@@***^^^! scanner, I would post an but certainly for another set at some time. Brief word picture : the push screw is a large diameter grub screw with atrue conical tip, which engages with a true conical depression in the otherbar. The pull screw is a smaller partially threaded bolt co-axial with thepush screw, on the other side obviously. Push and pull are thus along thesame true line, and the need for dowels is obviated by the fact that thefitting cones will always centre the bars relative to one another ( I toldyou this bloke is not happy about dowels, didn't I, though he IS going tofollow advice and dowel my present set for me ) when snugged up, which theycan be at any chosen gap dimension. Some time in the next week I will either work out how to use the scanner oruse it as a boat anchor. In the event it is the former, I will send you thedrawing. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Photofixer for bluing That's cheating. You have to do it manually! Hmmm, that's what she said last night. How's the planing form problem coming? from dhaftel@att.com Thu Sep 21 10:21:42 2000 e8LFLfG27491 LAA26451 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) Subject: Grinding paste All, I'm on the MSC website trying to choose a grinding paste for my electricsharpening wheel a la Tom Smithwick/George Barnes. Does anyone knowwhatthe compound is called that is used in this application? MSC has a zilliondifferent kinds of abrasives, etc. TIA, Dennis from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 12:05:47 2000 e8LH5kG01788 10:05:35 PDT Subject: Re: Grinding paste dennis, most recently i had a buddy tell me heprefered diamond paste. i think several of the guysuse the green. i'm in the process of setting up awheel myself and will most likely start with somethingi can get at lowes or menards and end up with 2ea ofwhat i don't use and have to extend the shelf two feetfarther around the basement to store it somewhereother than the floor. i would like to hear what yousettle on and why. timothy --- "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote:All, I'm on the MSC website trying to choose a grindingpaste for my electricsharpening wheel a la Tom Smithwick/George Barnes. Does anyone know whatthe compound is called that is used in thisapplication? MSC has a zilliondifferent kinds of abrasives, etc. TIA, Dennis ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Sep 21 12:11:15 2000 e8LHBEG02065 Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:29:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Grinding paste I have a felt belt on my small sander, that I use to finish hone my gouges,knives, etc.. The best compound I've found is in a white/gray stick forstainless steel. The difference is impressive. GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Sep 21 13:54:25 2000 e8LIsNG05640 Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:53:26 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Grinding paste I'm on the MSC website trying to choose a grinding paste for myelectric sharpening wheel a la Tom Smithwick/George Barnes. Doesanyone know what the compound is called that is used in thisapplication? MSC has a zillion different kinds of abrasives, etc. Dennis,Tried sending this to you earlier, but it bounced for some reason.I use both the green (12-15 micron?) and yellow (3-5 micron) diamondcompounds from KBC. What you want is in the syringes. If you need thepart #, let me know. I'll look it up tonight.If you're just using steel blades, then the green honing compoundform LeaValley/Veritas works like a charm. My plane irons are carbidetipped, and the honing compounds won't begin to cut them. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from HomeyDKlown@att.net Thu Sep 21 14:29:10 2000 e8LJT9G07469 ;Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:28:58 +0000 Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:28:57 +0000 Hi folks, There seems to be something wrong with the mail server in my office so I'm using my home account. Thanks for the responses to my question. I saw the syringe paste on MSC's site and will probably go with that. They're made by Norton and are diamond abrasive embedded in an oil base. The measured "mesh sizes are 3500 and 1200 for the 5 micron and 12 micron, respectively. They ain't cheap either at $26.37 a tube! I'd imagine a little goes a long way though... Thanks again, DennisI'm on the MSC website trying to choose a grinding paste for myelectric sharpening wheel a la Tom Smithwick/George Barnes. Doesanyone know what the compound is called that is used in thisapplication? MSC has a zillion different kinds of abrasives, etc. Dennis,Tried sending this to you earlier, but it bounced I use both the green (12-15 micron?) and yellow (3-5 micron) diamondcompounds from KBC. What you want is in the syringes. If you need thepart #, let me know. I'll look it up tonight.If you're just using steel blades, then the green honing compoundform LeaValley/Veritas works like a charm. My plane irons are carbidetipped, and the honing compounds won't begin to cut them. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from ddeloach@pcisys.net Thu Sep 21 17:33:33 2000 e8LMXWG14635 Subject: Bret Reiter Is Bret Reiter still on the list? He owes me a lot of money for a rod Ireturned to him nearly two months ago. No repsonse since 8/18, when hesaidhe was leaving for a fishing trip. Does anyone have any experience dealingwith him? Phone number? ThxDon from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Thu Sep 21 17:44:11 2000 e8LMiAG15003 0400 Subject: Essays on Fly Fishing by E. C. Powell This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C023FC.C6BA4200 What is the value of this publication signed by Walt and Press Powell? Anyfeed back would be appreciated. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C023FC.C6BA4200 What = this publication signed by Walt and Press Powell? Any feed back would be = appreciated. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C023FC.C6BA4200-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Sep 21 17:53:02 2000 e8LMr1G15352 Subject: review rodmakers --=====================_10426437==_.ALT review rodmakersBob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_10426437==_.ALT review rodmakers Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_10426437==_.ALT-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 21 18:37:39 2000 e8LNbcG16798 +0000 Subject: test Just testing a quirk of Worldnet. Sorry for the bandwidth usage. Dennis from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Sep 22 11:48:44 2000 e8MGmhG09406 0400 Subject: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C02494.49482B00 Thanks for responding to my query, this is one of many things that will bepassed on. It's nice not to leave people guessing what has value and whatjust takes up space. It was my pleasure to meet Walt at the National Fly Fishing Show in Bostonin the 80's and this was sent to me when it was published in the late 80'ssigned and with a nice note. Walt also sent me one of the new GoldenHexagraph blanks when they cleared customs. 3 pc. 6/7 wgt. 9' med/fastAtlantic salmon blank. I know that exposing this will get me black balledbut my thinking is that as man has looked around for different materials tomake rods there are bench marks, one of them being grass (aka) bamboo.Thesetaper and action are based on E. C. Powell's bamboo rods formularies. Theseare truly bamboo actions and do away with some of the negatives. Such astipheaviness, over all blank weight, and bio degrading. These blanks areproduced in the same manner as cane, 6 segments joined to make a blank. Itis my belief that this will indeed be the new bench mark for fine rods. Itdoes not abandon the true art or craftsmanship of making rods, but justpresents use with a new material to go on with. Warmest regards and Upstream Always, Tim Doughty. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C02494.49482B00 Thanks = responding to my query, this is one of many things that will be passed = space. It was = to meet Walt at the National Fly Fishing Show in Boston in the 80's and = Walt also sent me one of the new Golden Hexagraph blanks when they = customs. 3 pc. 6/7 wgt. 9' med/fast Atlantic salmon blank. I know that = this will get me black balled but my thinking is that as man has looked = grass (aka) bamboo. These taper and action are based on E. C. Powell's = degrading. These blanks are produced in the same manner as cane, 6 = new bench mark for fine rods. It does not abandon the true art or = of making rods, but just presents use with a new material to go on with. = Upstream Always, Tim Doughty. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C02494.49482B00-- from mep@mint.net Fri Sep 22 13:06:21 2000 e8MI6JG12789 Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:06:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Grinding paste The paste I use is from MSC, diamond honing compound. It's the yellow,comes in a syringe. I use it on a leather belt. Mike from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Sep 22 15:01:33 2000 e8MK1WG18033 Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:01:19 +0100 paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell Tim,Bruce and Walker in the UK had the patent on the 'Hexagraph' and now nolonger produce Hexagraph fly rods due to severe problems withdelamination.Daiwa also tried with hexagraphs and they were only on themarket for a short spell prior to being retired .The B&W rods were alljoined via a spigot and socket joint and on all but the smallest troutrods delamination at the ferrule was a problem.Does the Powell rod have conventional ferrules ?Aesthetically the rods at face value are identical in appearance to abamboo rod ( albeit nodeless)but experiences here in the UK show thatthey have a very short life........PaulTim Doughty wrote: Thanks for responding to my query, this is one of many things thatwill be passed on. It's nice not to leave people guessing what hasvalue and what just takes up space. It was my pleasure to meet Walt at the National Fly Fishing Show inBoston in the 80's and this was sent to me when it was published inthe late 80's signed and with a nice note. Walt also sent me one ofthe new Golden Hexagraph blanks when they cleared customs. 3 pc. 6/7wgt. 9' med/fast Atlantic salmon blank. I know that exposing this willget me black balled but my thinking is that as man has looked around them being grass (aka) bamboo. These taper and action are based on E.C. Powell's bamboo rods formularies. These are truly bamboo actionsand do away with some of the negatives. Such as tip heaviness, overall blank weight, and bio degrading. These blanks are produced in thesame manner as cane, 6 segments joined to make a blank. It is mybelief that this will indeed be the new bench mark for fine rods. Itdoes not abandon the true art or craftsmanship of making rods, butjust presents use with a new material to go on with. Warmest regards and Upstream Always, Tim Doughty. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 15:09:58 2000 e8MK9rG18419 13:09:49 PDT Subject: testing testing ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from HomeyDKlown@att.net Fri Sep 22 16:48:04 2000 e8MLm4G23346 +0000 Subject: test One more time... from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 17:05:27 2000 e8MM5QG24011 15:05:23 PDT Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell all, i have fished hexagraph rods i got from waltpowell. the rods i have are excellent rods. theyhave been fished hard by myself and others andcovetted by many. they have a standard ferrule and dofish alot like bamboo. some one asked me severalyears ago, in an attempt to embarass me, why i hadthese rods. my answer was simple. the rods i have aregood rods. i work in a fly fishing shop and makebamboo and cast everything i can get my hands on andfish only what i like. the hexes have alot of criticsthats okay. some like para's others wonder why. thepowells have made great contributions to flyfishing. the book of essays is a treatise on rod design andcasting. it is a real treasure and worth the fewbucks. timothy --- "paul.blakley" wrote:Tim,Bruce and Walker in the UK had the patent on the'Hexagraph' and now nolonger produce Hexagraph fly rods due to severeproblems withdelamination.Daiwa also tried with hexagraphs andthey were only on themarket for a short spell prior to being retired .TheB&W rods were alljoined via a spigot and socket joint and on all butthe smallest troutrods delamination at the ferrule was a problem.Does the Powell rod have conventional ferrules ?Aesthetically the rods at face value are identicalin appearance to abamboo rod ( albeit nodeless)but experiences here inthe UK show thatthey have a very short life........PaulTim Doughty wrote: Thanks for responding to my query, this is one ofmany things thatwill be passed on. It's nice not to leave peopleguessing what hasvalue and what just takes up space. It was my pleasure to meet Walt at the NationalFly Fishing Show inBoston in the 80's and this was sent to me when itwas published inthe late 80's signed and with a nice note. Waltalso sent me one ofthe new Golden Hexagraph blanks when they clearedcustoms. 3 pc. 6/7wgt. 9' med/fast Atlantic salmon blank. I knowthat exposing this willget me black balled but my thinking is that as manhas looked around bench marks, one ofthem being grass (aka) bamboo. These taper andaction are based on E.C. Powell's bamboo rods formularies. These aretruly bamboo actionsand do away with some of the negatives. Such astip heaviness, overall blank weight, and bio degrading. These blanksare produced in thesame manner as cane, 6 segments joined to make ablank. It is mybelief that this will indeed be the new bench mark does not abandon the true art or craftsmanship ofmaking rods, butjust presents use with a new material to go onwith. Warmest regards and Upstream Always, Tim Doughty. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Sep 22 18:27:28 2000 e8MNRRG26415 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:26:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell Timothy,Ha, the Powell rods have a standard ferrule then.....perhaps this iswhere B@W and the mighty Daiwa failed......?I can remember once talking to a well known independant ( I won't namehim to avoid any embarrasement )UK builder of both bamboo and graphiterods who thought that the original concept was quite excellent but hadbeen some what tarnished by B&W ( and hence Daiwa ! )choosing to use an integral spigot ferrule arrangement ........Paul timothy troester wrote: all, i have fished hexagraph rods i got from waltpowell. the rods i have are excellent rods. theyhave been fished hard by myself and others andcovetted by many. they have a standard ferrule and dofish alot like bamboo. some one asked me severalyears ago, in an attempt to embarass me, why i hadthese rods. my answer was simple. the rods i have aregood rods. i work in a fly fishing shop and makebamboo and cast everything i can get my hands on andfish only what i like. the hexes have alot of criticsthats okay. some like para's others wonder why. thepowells have made great contributions to flyfishing.the book of essays is a treatise on rod design andcasting. it is a real treasure and worth the fewbucks. timothy --- "paul.blakley" wrote:Tim,Bruce and Walker in the UK had the patent on the'Hexagraph' and now nolonger produce Hexagraph fly rods due to severeproblems withdelamination.Daiwa also tried with hexagraphs andthey were only on themarket for a short spell prior to being retired .TheB&W rods were alljoined via a spigot and socket joint and on all butthe smallest troutrods delamination at the ferrule was a problem.Does the Powell rod have conventional ferrules ?Aesthetically the rods at face value are identicalin appearance to abamboo rod ( albeit nodeless)but experiences here inthe UK show thatthey have a very short life........PaulTim Doughty wrote: Thanks for responding to my query, this is one ofmany things thatwill be passed on. It's nice not to leave peopleguessing what hasvalue and what just takes up space. It was my pleasure to meet Walt at the NationalFly Fishing Show inBoston in the 80's and this was sent to me when itwas published inthe late 80's signed and with a nice note. Waltalso sent me one ofthe new Golden Hexagraph blanks when they clearedcustoms. 3 pc. 6/7wgt. 9' med/fast Atlantic salmon blank. I knowthat exposing this willget me black balled but my thinking is that as manhas looked around bench marks, one ofthem being grass (aka) bamboo. These taper andaction are based on E.C. Powell's bamboo rods formularies. These aretruly bamboo actionsand do away with some of the negatives. Such astip heaviness, overall blank weight, and bio degrading. These blanksare produced in thesame manner as cane, 6 segments joined to make ablank. It is mybelief that this will indeed be the new bench mark does not abandon the true art or craftsmanship ofmaking rods, butjust presents use with a new material to go onwith. Warmest regards and Upstream Always, Tim Doughty. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Sep 22 18:55:45 2000 e8MNtiG27173 Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:03:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell Just for information on this subject.I was shown a rod at the SLC Dealers show last week that at first glance Ithought was a bamboo rod. It was shown to me by a man from Japan and Ihad ahard time understanding what he was saying. I did get this much out if it. Apiece of cross section looked just like a 6 strip bamboo rod with heavypower fibers. For all practical purposes the rod looked as close to bambooas the real thing. I wish I had more time to cast it but I could not do it.I know it is not bamboo but you could almost fool someone that did not know.It was the closest thing to bamboo that I have seen made into a rod. Oh Yes,It had a fine purple line at each edge and it was "flamed" color with thesame effect you would get on the real thing. Don't know any more about itthan this.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "paul.blakley" wrote: Tim,Bruce and Walker in the UK had the patent on the 'Hexagraph' and now nolonger produce Hexagraph fly rods due to severe problems withdelamination.Daiwa also tried with hexagraphs and they were only on themarket for a short spell prior to being retired .The B&W rods were alljoined via a spigot and socket joint and on all but the smallest troutrods delamination at the ferrule was a problem.Does the Powell rod have conventional ferrules ?Aesthetically the rods at face value are identical in appearance to abamboo rod ( albeit nodeless)but experiences here in the UK show thatthey have a very short life........PaulTim Doughty wrote: Thanks for responding to my query, this is one of many things thatwill be passed on. It's nice not to leave people guessing what hasvalue and what just takes up space. It was my pleasure to meet Walt at the National Fly Fishing Show inBoston in the 80's and this was sent to me when it was published inthe late 80's signed and with a nice note. Walt also sent me one ofthe new Golden Hexagraph blanks when they cleared customs. 3 pc. 6/7wgt. 9' med/fast Atlantic salmon blank. I know that exposing this willget me black balled but my thinking is that as man has looked around them being grass (aka) bamboo. These taper and action are based on E.C. Powell's bamboo rods formularies. These are truly bamboo actionsand do away with some of the negatives. Such as tip heaviness, overall blank weight, and bio degrading. These blanks are produced in thesame manner as cane, 6 segments joined to make a blank. It is mybelief that this will indeed be the new bench mark for fine rods. Itdoes not abandon the true art or craftsmanship of making rods, butjust presents use with a new material to go on with. Warmest regards and Upstream Always, Tim Doughty. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Sep 22 18:57:17 2000 e8MNvGG27326 0400 Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell, thanks for your feedback. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C024D0.27C519C0 I thought I would just take a minute to thank you guys for your feed back. The Hex technology is still under patent protection and are still beingproduced. The spigot ferrule system was first tried by Bruce and Walker forthere European tapers and spay rods. This indeed was not a good mouse trapand lead to the first bad impressions of this process. The ferrule systemsuse now are the super swiss and other high quality ferrules. Again throughWalt Powell's R&D, these issues where worked out so that now you haveblankand ferrule system that is as sound as another rod material use. I have hadthese rods since the late 80's and to date have not had a failure and I havenot been kind to these rods to see if they would survive in the real world. In closing one day the patent will run out and all those who want will beable, with some tooling up, produce their most favorite blank and know thatin a hundred years it will still be a working rod and not a wall hanger. Take care and Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C024D0.27C519C0 I = just take a minute to thank you guys for your feed =back. The Hex = still under patent protection and are still being produced. The spigot = system was first tried by Bruce and Walker for there European tapers and = impressions of this process. The ferrule systems use now are the super = other high quality ferrules. Again through Walt Powell's R&D, these = where worked out so that now you have blank and ferrule system that is = and to date have not had a failure and I have not been kind to these = if they would survive in the real world. In = tooling up, produce their most favorite blank and know that in a hundred = it will still be a working rod and not a wall =hanger. Take = Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C024D0.27C519C0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 19:02:27 2000 e8N02QG27563 17:02:22 PDT Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell the present hexagraph company is using standardferrules also. timothyp.s. of course i fish my own rods now, mostly. timothy --- "paul.blakley" wrote:Timothy,Ha, the Powell rods have a standard ferrulethen.....perhaps this iswhere B@W and the mighty Daiwa failed......?I can remember once talking to a well knownindependant ( I won't namehim to avoid any embarrasement )UK builder of bothbamboo and graphiterods who thought that the original concept was quiteexcellent but hadbeen some what tarnished by B&W ( and hence Daiwa !)choosing to use an integral spigot ferrule arrangement ........Paul timothy troester wrote: all, i have fished hexagraph rods i got from waltpowell. the rods i have are excellent rods. theyhave been fished hard by myself and others andcovetted by many. they have a standard ferruleand dofish alot like bamboo. some one asked me severalyears ago, in an attempt to embarass me, why i hadthese rods. my answer was simple. the rods i havearegood rods. i work in a fly fishing shop and makebamboo and cast everything i can get my hands onandfish only what i like. the hexes have alot ofcriticsthats okay. some like para's others wonder why. thepowells have made great contributions toflyfishing.the book of essays is a treatise on rod design andcasting. it is a real treasure and worth the fewbucks. timothy --- "paul.blakley" wrote:Tim,Bruce and Walker in the UK had the patent on the'Hexagraph' and now nolonger produce Hexagraph fly rods due to severeproblems withdelamination.Daiwa also tried with hexagraphsandthey were only on themarket for a short spell prior to being retired.TheB&W rods were alljoined via a spigot and socket joint and on allbutthe smallest troutrods delamination at the ferrule was a problem.Does the Powell rod have conventional ferrules ?Aesthetically the rods at face value are in appearance to abamboo rod ( albeit nodeless)but experienceshere inthe UK show thatthey have a very short life........PaulTim Doughty wrote: Thanks for responding to my query, this is oneofmany things thatwill be passed on. It's nice not to leavepeopleguessing what hasvalue and what just takes up space. It was my pleasure to meet Walt at theNationalFly Fishing Show inBoston in the 80's and this was sent to mewhen itwas published inthe late 80's signed and with a nice note.Waltalso sent me one ofthe new Golden Hexagraph blanks when theyclearedcustoms. 3 pc. 6/7wgt. 9' med/fast Atlantic salmon blank. I knowthat exposing this willget me black balled but my thinking is that asmanhas looked around bench marks, one ofthem being grass (aka) bamboo. These taper andaction are based on E.C. Powell's bamboo rods formularies. These aretruly bamboo actionsand do away with some of the negatives. Suchastip heaviness, overall blank weight, and bio degrading. Theseblanksare produced in thesame manner as cane, 6 segments joined to makeablank. It is mybelief that this will indeed be the new benchmark does not abandon the true art or craftsmanshipofmaking rods, butjust presents use with a new material to go onwith. Warmest regards and Upstream Always, TimDoughty. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts withYahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from marcdupuis@home.com Fri Sep 22 19:59:52 2000 e8N0xpG28999 0700 Organization: @Home Network Member Subject: Hello, and Hexagraphs. was: Essays on Fly Fishing Hello, First, as an introduction, I have been a lurker for a few weeks. I havenot YET built a bamboo rod, but have all the books written until acouple years ago, met Wayne Catanagh and Ron Barsch of Planing Form'fame' and several rod builders in Carlisle must be 5 years ago, andhave been enjoying this list. I belong to a couple fly fishing lists,and recognise at least one name from there. I will yet build bamboorods, but have given up feeling ashamed that the two culms I own arestill not split into sections (yes, they have the one 'stress relieving'split along the full length). I have 'assembled' several glass and graphite rods (Can you really callthat building, when you don't make the blank yourself?), which brings meto this discussion. About five years ago I built (assembled), and helped others build(assemble, dammit), a half dozen Bruce and Walker Hexagraphic rods fromblanks we picked up for a reasonable price. They all had the spigotferrule. Two of the rods were reasonably stiff 7 ft 3-4-5 wt. rated rods(dark green), one of which I built for myself. These have been finerods, fished hard and have held up. Three longer greyish coloured rodsabsolutely exploded half way up the butt while fighting good fish (Iwitnessed two of them go, 9ft 8 or 9wts, on the Salmon R. in Pulaski. -the third blew up in Alaska, also on a large fish). There was completedelamination for a foot of length, the thing looking like a comicexploded blunderbuss. I cast the longer and heavier grey ones, and wasNOT impressed. My little green one can shoot a goodly distance, but Ireally wish it had a bit more delicacy to go with the strength. It's notgood at short distances, even with a 5 wt line on it. The last rod was abamboo coloured one, about a 6 or 7 wt, fairly long, which has yertraditional soft wet-fly action, or what I consider a traditional wetfly action, or the traditional 'British' action. (am I opening a can ofworms here?). The owner uses it for nymphing for bass and trout, withsuccess (more his skill than the rod I think) and for steelhead! Ithasn't broken yet. None have shown any weakness at the ferrule, maybebecause they broke elsewhere first. The idea of building a blank using traditional bamboo methods and modernsynthetic materials should be applauded, even if in its execution thingsdidn't always work so well. Painting some of them bamboo colours was abit much I think! But that's not new, I have an old Heddon fiberglassrod, very early 60's, which is also painted in bamboo colours, or maybein greenheart colours (it's round). Don't understand that at all. Marc DupuisOttawa, Ontario, Canada ps: The flyfish@ folk have heard this story twice already, the firsttime three or four years ago, when only one of the rods had blown up.Would be interesting (but can't bother) to go back and see how differentthis rendition is from the other two. from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Sep 22 20:20:33 2000 e8N1KWG29518 Fri, 22 Sep 2000 07:38:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell, thanks for your feedback. I recall seeing something about this idea in the form of a rod, but can'tremember where. Is there a web site, showing these ? GMA from cathcreek@hotmail.com Fri Sep 22 20:23:56 2000 e8N1NtG29696 Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:23:46 -0700 Sep 2000 01:23:46 GMT Subject: Re: Hello, and Hexagraphs. was: Essays on Fly Fishing FILETIME=[EB60C4C0:01C024FC] Marc, forget all this graphite business and just build a bamboo rod. You will not regret it! A rose by any other name is still graphite in my opinion. My buddy owns a fly shop and has several hexagraph rods he bought some time ago and can't sell them. Maybe he did his customers a favor by not selling them. Flame away folks. Its Friday, I am still at work (Yikes), and I wish I was planing right now!!! Give me (real) cane or give me death!!!!! Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: Marc Dupuis Subject: Hello, and Hexagraphs. was: Essays on Fly FishingDate: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:58:21 -0400 Hello, First, as an introduction, I have been a lurker for a few weeks. I havenot YET built a bamboo rod, but have all the books written until acouple years ago, met Wayne Catanagh and Ron Barsch of Planing Form'fame' and several rod builders in Carlisle must be 5 years ago, andhave been enjoying this list. I belong to a couple fly fishing lists,and recognise at least one name from there. I will yet build bamboorods, but have given up feeling ashamed that the two culms I own arestill not split into sections (yes, they have the one 'stress relieving'split along the full length). I have 'assembled' several glass and graphite rods (Can you really callthat building, when you don't make the blank yourself?), which brings meto this discussion. About five years ago I built (assembled), and helped others build(assemble, dammit), a half dozen Bruce and Walker Hexagraphic rods fromblanks we picked up for a reasonable price. They all had the spigotferrule. Two of the rods were reasonably stiff 7 ft 3-4-5 wt. rated rods(dark green), one of which I built for myself. These have been finerods, fished hard and have held up. Three longer greyish coloured rodsabsolutely exploded half way up the butt while fighting good fish (Iwitnessed two of them go, 9ft 8 or 9wts, on the Salmon R. in Pulaski. -the third blew up in Alaska, also on a large fish). There was completedelamination for a foot of length, the thing looking like a comicexploded blunderbuss. I cast the longer and heavier grey ones, and wasNOT impressed. My little green one can shoot a goodly distance, but Ireally wish it had a bit more delicacy to go with the strength. It's notgood at short distances, even with a 5 wt line on it. The last rod was abamboo coloured one, about a 6 or 7 wt, fairly long, which has yertraditional soft wet-fly action, or what I consider a traditional wetfly action, or the traditional 'British' action. (am I opening a can ofworms here?). The owner uses it for nymphing for bass and trout, withsuccess (more his skill than the rod I think) and for steelhead! Ithasn't broken yet. None have shown any weakness at the ferrule, maybebecause they broke elsewhere first. The idea of building a blank using traditional bamboo methods and modernsynthetic materials should be applauded, even if in its execution thingsdidn't always work so well. Painting some of them bamboo colours was abit much I think! But that's not new, I have an old Heddon fiberglassrod, very early 60's, which is also painted in bamboo colours, or maybein greenheart colours (it's round). Don't understand that at all. Marc DupuisOttawa, Ontario, Canada ps: The flyfish@ folk have heard this story twice already, the firsttime three or four years ago, when only one of the rods had blown up.Would be interesting (but can't bother) to go back and see how differentthis rendition is from the other two. _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from bamboo@pa.net Fri Sep 22 21:12:13 2000 e8N2CCG00948 Subject: Hexagraph Rods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C024E2.7C530BC0 I have graphite rods and cane rods and like to fish them both, but a =graphite rod painted to look like bamboo. Why!!! I also work in a fly =shop and have seen and cast these rods and there is nothing exceptional =about them. They are I believe a novelty. If you want to pay the =amount of money it costs for a hexagonal graphite rod get a good one(no =company names listed). If you want a hexagonal rod get one made from =grass instead of smoking it. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C024E2.7C530BC0 I have graphite rods and cane rods and= work in a fly shop and have seen and cast these rods and there is = pay the amount of money it costs for a hexagonal graphite rod get a good = instead of smoking it. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C024E2.7C530BC0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 22:10:08 2000 e8N3A7G02445 20:10:03 PDT Subject: Re: Hello, and Hexagraphs. was: Essays on Fly Fishing robert, we're in agreement now. timothy --- Robert Clarke wrote:Marc, forget all this graphite business and justbuild a bamboo rod. You will not regret it! A rose by any other name isstill graphite in my opinion. My buddy owns a fly shop and has severalhexagraph rods he bought some time ago and can't sell them. Maybe he did hiscustomers a favor by not selling them. Flame away folks. Its Friday, Iam still at work (Yikes), and I wish I was planing right now!!! Give me (real) cane or give me death!!!!! Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: Marc Dupuis Subject: Hello, and Hexagraphs. was: Essays on FlyFishingDate: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:58:21 -0400 Hello, First, as an introduction, I have been a lurker fora few weeks. I havenot YET built a bamboo rod, but have all the bookswritten until acouple years ago, met Wayne Catanagh and Ron Barschof Planing Form'fame' and several rod builders in Carlisle must be5 years ago, andhave been enjoying this list. I belong to a couplefly fishing lists,and recognise at least one name from there. I willyet build bamboorods, but have given up feeling ashamed that thetwo culms I own arestill not split into sections (yes, they have theone 'stress relieving'split along the full length). I have 'assembled' several glass and graphite rods(Can you really callthat building, when you don't make the blankyourself?), which brings meto this discussion. About five years ago I built (assembled), andhelped others build(assemble, dammit), a half dozen Bruce and WalkerHexagraphic rods fromblanks we picked up for a reasonable price. Theyall had the spigotferrule. Two of the rods were reasonably stiff 7 ft3-4-5 wt. rated rods(dark green), one of which I built for myself.These have been finerods, fished hard and have held up. Three longergreyish coloured rodsabsolutely exploded half way up the butt whilefighting good fish (Iwitnessed two of them go, 9ft 8 or 9wts, on theSalmon R. in Pulaski. -the third blew up in Alaska, also on a large fish).There was completedelamination for a foot of length, the thinglooking like a comicexploded blunderbuss. I cast the longer and heaviergrey ones, and wasNOT impressed. My little green one can shoot agoodly distance, but Ireally wish it had a bit more delicacy to go withthe strength. It's notgood at short distances, even with a 5 wt line onit. The last rod was abamboo coloured one, about a 6 or 7 wt, fairlylong, which has yertraditional soft wet-fly action, or what I considera traditional wetfly action, or the traditional 'British' action.(am I opening a can ofworms here?). The owner uses it for nymphing forbass and trout, withsuccess (more his skill than the rod I think) and hasn't broken yet. None have shown any weakness atthe ferrule, maybebecause they broke elsewhere first. The idea of building a blank using traditionalbamboo methods and modernsynthetic materials should be applauded, even if inits execution thingsdidn't always work so well. Painting some of thembamboo colours was abit much I think! But that's not new, I have an oldHeddon fiberglassrod, very early 60's, which is also painted inbamboo colours, or maybein greenheart colours (it's round). Don'tunderstand that at all. Marc DupuisOttawa, Ontario, Canada ps: The flyfish@ folk have heard this story twicealready, the firsttime three or four years ago, when only one of therods had blown up.Would be interesting (but can't bother) to go backand see how differentthis rendition is from the other two. _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your ownpublic profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from marcdupuis@home.com Fri Sep 22 22:39:43 2000 e8N3dhG03037 0700 Organization: @Home Network Member Subject: Re: Hello, and Hexagraphs. was: Essays on Fly Fishing Hello all, Was just trading emails with one of the group, and did some checking. Isaid it must have been 5 years ago that I met some rod builders inCarlisle. It was 9 years ago (1991). So what's taking me so long to getstarted? Do I have to be retired first, that's another ten years! Getoff the pot or #$%^&, I guess. Marc from HomeyDKlown@att.net Fri Sep 22 22:58:11 2000 e8N3wAG03451 ;Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:58:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Hello, and Hexagraphs. was: Essays on Fly Fishing Marc, Just dive in! It's a slow process at first. Then the intensity grows. Trust me! You have at your disposal a great source of informationhere. My advice to you is to take advantage of it. Enjoy! Dennis Marc Dupuis wrote: Hello all, Was just trading emails with one of the group, and did some checking. Isaid it must have been 5 years ago that I met some rod builders inCarlisle. It was 9 years ago (1991). So what's taking me so long to getstarted? Do I have to be retired first, that's another ten years! Getoff the pot or #$%^&, I guess. Marc from bamboorods@siskiyou.net Fri Sep 22 23:55:37 2000 e8N4tZG04638 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64293U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:46:09 -0700 Subject: Archives This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C024DF.5A041DA0 To the list:Searching the Archives for tapers is a tedious process for me. Much of =the communication has little to do with the Subject. Listmembers are =replying to mailings with the Subject not related to their text. =So...... when combing through the Subject of Tapers, their is more chaff =than wheat. Would it be possible for the members to look at their =Subject line prior to sending so that tapers, techniques and other =forgetful stuff can be separated from beer, wine corks, soccer and =rugby? Thanks.Chris Raine ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C024DF.5A041DA0 To the list:Searching the Archives for tapersis = their Subject line prior to sending so that tapers, techniques and other = forgetful stuff can be separated from beer, wine corks, soccer and = Thanks.Chris =Raine ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C024DF.5A041DA0-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Sep 23 03:10:43 2000 e8N8AhG07745 +0000 Subject: Hexagraph Information Info on Hexagraphs is available from www.searches.com......and thensearching for 'hexagraph'.Try www.omnibus.com/hexagraph/welcome for some specific info.....Paul from mep@mint.net Sat Sep 23 07:30:28 2000 e8NCURG11388 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:30:19 -0400 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Grinding paste Where do you get carbide tipped plane irons? I am starting a projectwhere I need one. Mike from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 23 07:38:43 2000 e8NCcgG11643 Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:57:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Archives Chris, if you are speaking of the rodmaker's web site archives, I don'tunderstand. I just go to Taper Archives, and choose the maker I'm lookingfor. No conversations there ???? GMA from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Sep 23 08:03:57 2000 e8ND3uG12146 Subject: Re: Grinding paste In a message dated 9/23/0 12:31:09 PM, mep@mint.net writes: Mike - I am a little supprised that one of the entrepreneurial types on the list isn't offering these, but as far as I know, you have to make your own. You can buy rectangles of carbide from Travers or MSC. Without looking, I'd say you want something like 1/8 X 3/8 X 2. Grind the length of the insert to the width of your blade, then grind 3/8 of length off your blade. Find someone who can braze the insert to the blade, grind the cutting angle, hone with diamonds, and you are in business. You need one of the special "green" wheels to grind carbide. The first one I bought wouldn't do it, I got one from Norton and It works. It's amazing how tough the stuff is. You can do a whole rod without honing. Eventually, the edge will need to be reground. It does not so much get dull as break down and start flaking away. I think the fine edge fatigues as a result of micro flexing while in use, but that is justa guess. The heat from brazing or grinding will not draw down the temper, as with steel. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Sep 23 08:05:00 2000 e8ND4xG12244 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:04:54 -0400 (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Grinding paste Mike You are going to have to find a shop that will do it for you. At onetime a list member did some through a shop and made them available butthat option is no longer is viable since he had an unfortunate hunting accident and died. Iwould start at a carbide sharpening shop that does planer blades for commercialshops.they should have all the capabilities to do the job. Chris On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:27:31 -0400, mep wrote: Where do you get carbide tipped plane irons? I am starting a projectwhere I need one. Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Sep 23 08:21:11 2000 e8NDL8G13775 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:20:58 +0800 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:20:56 +0800 Subject: Carbide tiped plane irons "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Peter McKean may not be on the list right now but I thought I'd dive inhere and tell all interested that there is a company in Sydney (That'sAustralia mate!) making plane irons with carbide tips and they have them instock.I'll let Peter take it from here when he sees the post. Tony At 09:04 AM 9/23/00 -0400, Chris Bogart wrote:Mike You are going to have to find a shop that will do it for you. At onetime a list member did some through a shop and made them available butthat option is no longer is viable since he had an unfortunate hunting accident anddied. I would start at a carbide sharpening shop that does planer blades for commercialshops.they should have all the capabilities to do the job. Chris On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:27:31 -0400, mep wrote: Where do you get carbide tipped plane irons? I am starting a projectwhere I need one. Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Sep 23 08:58:45 2000 e8NDwiG14660 Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell, thanks for your feedback. Tim,Although I fish some bamboo rods that are over one hundred yearsold, I am sceptical that any fiber-reinforced-plastic rods will lastthat long. I have a fiberglass rod that is 38 years old and hasn't beenfished for almost twenty years, but is already cracking lengthwise frombrittle old age. It would be a wallhanger if it wasn't so butt ugly.Please show me the FRP rod over one hundred years old that formedthe basis for your statement. : )Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tim Doughty wrote: In closing one day the patent will run out and all those who want willbe able, with some tooling up, produce their most favorite blank andknow that in a hundred years it will still be a working rod and not awall hanger. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Sep 23 09:03:58 2000 e8NE3tG14868 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:03:35 +0800 Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell, thanks for yourfeedback. "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" I'm about to write something that will offend some gentle listers. :-)I know of one very nice glass rod you have kicking around that if you everwanted to make it a wall hanger let me know :-) Tony At 09:58 AM 9/23/00 -0400, reed curry wrote:Tim,Although I fish some bamboo rods that are over one hundred yearsold, I am sceptical that any fiber-reinforced-plastic rods will lastthat long. I have a fiberglass rod that is 38 years old and hasn't beenfished for almost twenty years, but is already cracking lengthwise frombrittle old age. It would be a wallhanger if it wasn't so butt ugly.Please show me the FRP rod over one hundred years old that formedthe basis for your statement. : )Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tim Doughty wrote: In closing one day the patent will run out and all those who want willbe able, with some tooling up, produce their most favorite blank andknow that in a hundred years it will still be a working rod and not awall hanger. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sat Sep 23 09:23:43 2000 e8NENgG15352 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:17:23 -0500 Subject: Casting tape by Lefty Kreh This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01FF_01C0253F.8190ED20 Does anyone know the name of the casting instruction tape that Lefty =Kreh put out several years ago? OR where to get it? I have a friend =that is trying to learn, and I just don't have the patience. I used to =have this tape, and loaned it to someone (can't remember who) and it =never came home, but it is an excellent tape for a beginner and sure =would like to give it to her (yeah, Mike, it's Billie... she's driving =me crazy with those 10' tall loops!) Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_01FF_01C0253F.8190ED20 Does anyone know the name of the casting instruction tape that = this tape, and loaned it to someone (can't remember who) and it never = but it is an excellent tape for a beginner and sure would like to give = loops!) Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_01FF_01C0253F.8190ED20-- from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sat Sep 23 10:49:45 2000 e8NFneG16808 Subject: Fw: Casting tape by Lefty Kreh This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C02555.17E4EAA0 ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Casting tape by Lefty Kreh Bob, I have one called "Lessons with Lefty: A teaching guide for Fly casting"It is to help instructors teaching fly casting. It is very good. Retails There is another one called "Lefty Kreh's All New Casting Techniques"I have not seen it, but imagine it is good-he's such a great instructor.This one goes for$19.95. I'm not trying to push them-just giving you the info. John ----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 10:20 AMSubject: Casting tape by Lefty Kreh Does anyone know the name of the casting instruction tape that Lefty Krehput out several years ago? OR where to get it? I have a friend that istrying to learn, and I just don't have the patience. I used to have thistape, and loaned it to someone (can't remember who) and it never camehome,but it is an excellent tape for a beginner and sure would like to give it toher (yeah, Mike, it's Billie... she's driving me crazy with those 10' tallloops!) Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C02555.17E4EAA0 From:John Kenealy Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 11:52 AMSubject: Re: Casting tape by Lefty Kreh Bob, I have one called "Lessons with Lefty: A teaching = Fly casting"It is to help instructors teaching fly casting. It = There is another one called "Lefty Kreh's All New = Techniques"I have not seen it, but imagine it is good-he's such = $19.95. info. John ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Saturday, September 23, = AMSubject: Casting tape by Lefty =Kreh Does anyone know the name of the casting instruction tape that = have this tape, and loaned it to someone (can't remember who) and it = came home, but it is an excellent tape for a beginner and sure would = give it to her (yeah, Mike, it's Billie... she's driving me crazy with = 10' tall loops!) Thanks,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C02555.17E4EAA0-- from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Sep 23 14:13:22 2000 e8NJDLG20941 (METDST) Subject: test test test from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Sep 23 14:21:07 2000 e8NJL6G21291 (METDST) Subject: test anybody out there from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 23 16:16:02 2000 e8NLG1G24217 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:34:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Essays on Fly Fishing, by E. C. Powell, thanks for your feedback. I once (1960's) fished the old Sila-Flex glass rods, and they were as goodas ever made from this material. After a 20 + year lay up, I started using acouple for specific spinning rod applications. Both shattered one day, underheavy loads using 8# test line ! It seems they do get brittle. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 23 16:18:15 2000 e8NLIEG24393 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:36:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Casting tape by Lefty Kreh Can't help with the Kreh tape Bob, but Dave Whitlock did a tape that wasextraordinary, both in the instruction and clarity ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 23 16:19:29 2000 e8NLJSG24520 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:37:57 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Casting tape by Lefty Kreh Where did you buy the Left K. tapes John ? GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Sep 23 18:00:16 2000 e8NN0FG27254 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 16:00:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Tony, Peter --- Please, let's hear some more about this company. If the price isreasonable, I know I'd like to have a couple more carbide tipped blades. Harry Tony Young wrote: Peter McKean may not be on the list right now but I thought I'd dive inhere and tell all interested that there is a company in Sydney (That'sAustralia mate!) making plane irons with carbide tips and they have them instock.I'll let Peter take it from here when he sees the post. from EESweet@aol.com Sat Sep 23 20:54:57 2000 e8O1suG00683 Subject: Stuck ferrules Hi All, Looks like I didn't fit the ferrules on my Dickerson as well as I thought, I can't get the darned things apart! I've tried the behind the knees trick, all that got me was a 1/8 inch seperation with tip section and the male ferrule. I've iced it, but that didn't help at all. Am I going to have to build a ferrule pulling mechanism or does anyone else have any ideas? I hope so 'cause I don't have a whole lot of use for a 7 1/2' one piece 6 weight! Thanks in advance. Eric from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Sat Sep 23 22:44:16 2000 e8O3iFG02945 with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:45:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Archives e8O3iGG02946 Hi Chris, The "Taper Archive" section of the Rodmakers site is the general tapersection which doesn't have any Powell tapers. There is another place at theRodmakers site that has tapers which were posted by listmembers. Youwould select "software", then "Thanks to Frank Stetzer", then "Classic RodTaper". Here you will find one taper for a 7'6" 2 pc. 6 wt. Walton Powelltaper, which was posted by Brian Thoman in March of '99. As far as lookingthrough the rodmakers general archives for more tapers, good luck. Thereare 629 members on the list and sometimes private conversations getcarried away with reply to all rather then reply to an individual. I'm postingthis to the list in case not everyone is aware of the other location of tapersat the Rodmakers site. Chris 9/22 10:31p >>>To the list:Searching the Archives for tapers is a tedious process for me. Much of thecommunication has little to do with the Subject. Listmembers are replying tomailings with the Subject not related to their text. So...... when combingthrough the Subject of Tapers, their is more chaff than wheat. Would it bepossible for the members to look at their Subject line prior to sending sothat tapers, techniques and other forgetful stuff can be separated frombeer, wine corks, soccer and rugby? Thanks.Chris Raine from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 23 23:07:12 2000 e8O47BG03527 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:25:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules If getting a helper doesn't do it, then a puller is THE way ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 23 23:22:59 2000 e8O4MxG03981 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:41:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Archives Chris, It has finally dawned on my thick skull what you guys are speaking of. Youare talking about the Rodmaker's Archives, that has discussion about justabout every subject that has to do with building cane. I was thinking of theRodmaker's Taper Archives. These are of course, are two completelyseparatethings. Sorry for my being so dense. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Sep 23 23:24:05 2000 e8O4O3G04080 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:23:50 +0800 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules Try standing back to back with someone. Both take a hold of the rod andpull. This works for some pretty hard to part ferrules. Tony At 09:54 PM 9/23/00 -0400, EESweet@aol.com wrote:Hi All, Looks like I didn't fit the ferrules on my Dickerson as well as I thought, I can't get the darned things apart! I've tried the behind the knees trick, all that got me was a 1/8 inch seperation with tip section and the male ferrule. I've iced it, but that didn't help at all. Am I going to have to build a ferrule pulling mechanism or does anyone else have any ideas? Ihope so 'cause I don't have a whole lot of use for a 7 1/2' one piece 6 weight! Thanks in advance. Eric /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Sep 23 23:55:02 2000 e8O4sxG04906 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" I'm afraid we'll all have to wait for Peter on this one. I asked him forthe companies details last night when he got me all excited about it and Ihaven't heard a peep since. He's prob out there watching the list allwrithe in expectation but wont tell, chorteling away in some Tasmanian's Come on Peter, we know you're out there. :-) Tony At 05:58 PM 9/23/00 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Tony, Peter --- Please, let's hear some more about this company. If the price isreasonable, I know I'd like to have a couple more carbide tipped blades. Harry Tony Young wrote: Peter McKean may not be on the list right now but I thought I'd dive inhere and tell all interested that there is a company in Sydney (That'sAustralia mate!) making plane irons with carbide tips and they have theminstock.I'll let Peter take it from here when he sees the post. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 00:04:12 2000 e8O549G05321 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:03:55 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons You know it's just occured to me Peter should prob give these guys inSydney with the carbide tiped irons some advance warning. They prob onlysell 5-6 of these a year and have them stashed away in a shoe box on top ofthe junk out the back so when they get orders from 40 people from NZ toIceland they'll wonder what the hell is going on. They'll talk about it foryears. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sun Sep 24 02:11:48 2000 e8O7BlG07360 (62.180.215.71) Subject: Hock and Lie Hi everybody I am just in the process of ordering a Lie Nielson plane and was verysuprised to lesrn that they do not accept Hock blades. I assume this iscorrect and that those of you using Lie Nielson planes also use theirblades...........How do they compare to Hock blades? They alsooffered me a "cryogenically treated blade" for the plane, any takers? Thanks Stuart from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 02:31:18 2000 e8O7VFG07814 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:31:02 +0800 Subject: Re: Hock and Lie from memory Hock irons use the propper steel hardened to 62 c Rockwellandalso from memory LN do the same and their irons are thicker than thoseusedin Stanley and Record which is a good thing too.What ever LN do I think you can accept it's the right thing to do, theymake superb tools and although most of their gear winds up on what I'd call"Gentlemen cabinet makers" office desks there are also plenty of people whoearn a living with them too so my advise is buy LN tools with confidence.Their low angle adjustable throat *bench* plane while not useful forrodmaking is a thing of beauty to behold and use. The scraper is extremlygood for that last touch on the splines and I've found handles the nodes onthe enamel side better than a plane does. I confess, I've been making rodswith full length splines (ie. not nodeless) of late.Re "cryogenically treated blade" I haven't the slightest clue. Tony At 09:12 AM 9/24/00 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote:Hi everybody I am just in the process of ordering a Lie Nielson plane and was verysuprised to lesrn that they do not accept Hock blades. I assume this iscorrect and that those of you using Lie Nielson planes also use theirblades...........How do they compare to Hock blades? They alsooffered me a "cryogenically treated blade" for the plane, any takers? Thanks Stuart /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Sep 24 04:54:32 2000 e8O9sUG09957 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Organization: vet Tony So once again, I should read ALL my mail before replying!!! I have not been lurking. I have been FISHING. I went to Arthur's Lake thismorning and it was a magic day. It was a clear blue sky with snow everywhereabout a foot deep, and a gentle breeze ruffling the surface of the water. Now I know that you purists in Western Australia don't like stillwaterfishing, but there were a few fish working the surface for caddis fly, and Inailed a beauty on a size 12 calftail caddis *. About 3 1/2 pounds of lovelywild brown, taken on the second rod I ever built (the one I sent over to you manage), a 6wt three piece Payne 8-footer.* One of the more esoteric advantages of being a veterinarian is that youcan ask your colleagues to watch out for stillborn calves of a particularcolour, especially grey, brown, dun, black, and white. And to bring thetails home for yours truly. The hair from the unborn is much more suitable Suck eggs!!! I will repeat the address of the company in Sydney who are offeringhigh- speed tipped plane irons to fit Stanley and Record planes out of shelfstock, to save you doing it for the List. Wood Works Book and Tool Co8 Railway RoadMeadowbankSydney NSW AustraliaPhone 02 9807 7244Fax 02 9807 7344www.thewoodworks.com.au No, I am NOT a bloody member of their board of directors, don't know them from Adam, AM going to buy a couple of their irons, and, if it helps any,usually seem to talk to a very helpful bloke called Brian when I call. Am still working out how to sharpen the damn things. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I'm afraid we'll all have to wait for Peter on this one. I asked him forthe companies details last night when he got me all excited about it and Ihaven't heard a peep since. He's prob out there watching the list allwrithe in expectation but wont tell, chorteling away in some Tasmanian's Come on Peter, we know you're out there. :-) Tony At 05:58 PM 9/23/00 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Tony, Peter --- Please, let's hear some more about this company. If the price isreasonable, I know I'd like to have a couple more carbide tipped blades. Harry Tony Young wrote: Peter McKean may not be on the list right now but I thought I'd dive inhere and tell all interested that there is a company in Sydney (That'sAustralia mate!) making plane irons with carbide tips and they havethem instock.I'll let Peter take it from here when he sees the post. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 05:32:18 2000 e8OAWGG10608 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:32:10 +0800 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:32:09 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Whoops, now I re-read my post re. my suggesting you advise the "WoodWorksBook and Tool Co" recently famous beyond our shores (punch beyond theirweight you could say) due to their almost forgotten stock of carbide tippedplane irons I see how it *could* be construed that I was implying you werea principal of that company. Sorry. I must ask though, are you in fact trafficking in calf tail? :-) Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 05:43:45 2000 e8OAhOG10940 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:43:14 +0800 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:43:13 +0800 Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie Well, it's prob worth relating simply because it may help.I had a bad run of a few rods with what is easiest described as faulty gluecausing quite a bit of trouble with broken rods.I resolved the problem with getting the right stuff but along the wayrevised the idea of conventional construction.My main objection to convention construction was the work up involved insplitting the culms. I decided that by the time you mess about it's just aseasy to cut the nodes and split with better control then scarf them backtogether. However reading on list about Bob Nunley's method and talking to PeterMcKean about their vise and knife method I gave it a go and found you canindeed split an entire culm into pretty much any sized strips you like in avery short time indeed. I didn't time myself but I'd reckon I split anentire culm in about 30 mins and the strips were never wider than I wantedthem.Anybody interested in this method should find Peter McKean's treaste on thesubject in the archives, it's worth the read.Do I still make rods nodeless? yes. Tony Gentlemen The world surely is coming to an end. Did You notice this quote from Tony: Tony Young has started making rods with NODES. Tony, thats abold one to confess. More seriously, is there a reason to thisherecy? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from channer1@rmi.net Sun Sep 24 06:21:02 2000 e8OBL1G11822 Subject: Re: Hock and Lie Stuart;Don't worry about it, the Lie-Nielsen blades are at least as good asHock, if not better.John stuart moultrie wrote: Hi everybody I am just in the process of ordering a Lie Nielson plane and was verysuprised to lesrn that they do not accept Hock blades. I assume this iscorrect and that those of you using Lie Nielson planes also use theirblades...........How do they compare to Hock blades? They alsooffered me a "cryogenically treated blade" for the plane, any takers? Thanks Stuart from mep@mint.net Sun Sep 24 07:10:21 2000 e8OCAKG12556 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:09:55 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it. I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 07:16:19 2000 e8OCGHG12743 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:16:06 +0800 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:15:59 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Can't speak for Peter (who is not involved with the company) but FYI the$Aust = about $US.65c so to give you an idea IF the iron costs $AUST 40 foreg that would be about $US 26. Cheap, no? Tony At 08:07 AM 9/24/00 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it. I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Sun Sep 24 07:44:59 2000 e8OCiwG13266 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Fellas,Are we all talking about the same thing here? An alarm went off when Isawthe words "high-speed" in Peter's response. We're not mixing up carbidewith high-speed steel are we? It certainly seems possible that someone isforging high-speed edges onto soft iron blanks a la Japanese chisels, no?Someone could be AWFULLY disappointed in their new blades if there is amisunderstanding....Art At 08:07 AM 09/24/2000 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it. I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 07:56:47 2000 e8OCuiG13565 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:56:37 +0800 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:56:34 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" I hope so. In fact I've become so keen on the idea that if what you suggestis the case I'll go and get it done myself.I've faxed the people asking for details and Peter prob has some as welleven though he's not involved in any way with the company and we'll get tothe bottom of it all soon and let you all know. Tony At 08:45 AM 9/24/00 -0400, Art Port wrote:Fellas,Are we all talking about the same thing here? An alarm went off when Isawthe words "high-speed" in Peter's response. We're not mixing up carbidewith high-speed steel are we? It certainly seems possible that someone isforging high-speed edges onto soft iron blanks a la Japanese chisels, no?Someone could be AWFULLY disappointed in their new blades if there is amisunderstanding....Art At 08:07 AM 09/24/2000 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it. I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Sep 24 07:59:47 2000 e8OCxkG13701 Subject: Re: Hock and Lie In a message dated 9/24/0 7:12:31 AM, stuart.rod@gmx.de writes: In theory the blade should be harder and hold an edge better. When the blade is heat treated and quenched, the internal structure changes from a relatively soft structure called "austenite", to a hard structure called "martensite". The cryogenic treatment is supposed to trigger a morethorough transformation, and produce more martensite.I've never used such a blade and can't comment from experience, but the theory sounds good. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Sep 24 08:42:36 2000 e8ODgaG14984 Subject: RE: Sv: Hock and Lie e8ODgaG14985 Tony -- What was the "right stuff" you found for nodeless construction? Not sureI've found it yet.... And in case others can help....I've been using Titebond II Extend for scarfsand sections. Usually all is well, but an apparently random selection ofscarf joints and even occasionally a longitudinal joint fails. I use freshglue and good strong clamping, and can't identify any factor that accounts next time around (for now I'm still in a rodmaking pause due to a move anda new job). While I'm at it....I participate in many lists (professional and amateur)and this is the most helpful levelheaded and good natured group I've seen. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie Well, it's prob worth relating simply because it may help.I had a bad run of a few rods with what is easiest described as faultygluecausing quite a bit of trouble with broken rods.I resolved the problem with getting the right stuff but along the wayrevised the idea of conventional construction.My main objection to convention construction was the work up involved insplitting the culms. I decided that by the time you mess about it's justaseasy to cut the nodes and split with better control then scarf them backtogether. However reading on list about Bob Nunley's method and talking to PeterMcKean about their vise and knife method I gave it a go and found youcanindeed split an entire culm into pretty much any sized strips you likein avery short time indeed. I didn't time myself but I'd reckon I split anentire culm in about 30 mins and the strips were never wider than Iwantedthem.Anybody interested in this method should find Peter McKean's treaste onthesubject in the archives, it's worth the read.Do I still make rods nodeless? yes. Tony Gentlemen The world surely is coming to an end. Did You notice this quote fromTony: Tony Young has started making rods with NODES. Tony, thats abold one to confess. More seriously, is there a reason to thisherecy? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun Sep 24 08:48:36 2000 e8ODmZG15169 Subject: RE: Sv: Hock and Lie, Now Nodeless Glue Titebond II (Regular stuff) seems to be doing fine for me. Another maker told me recently he was switching to hide glue? Seems several guys have found that to be quite good. I just don't know if I need a glue pot on the already cluttered bench!Let us know if you found the holy grail of nodeless glues!Best regards,Bob from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 08:49:43 2000 e8ODneG15295 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:49:29 +0800 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:49:28 +0800 Subject: RE: Sv: Hock and Lie "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Barry, Tony -- What was the "right stuff" you found for nodeless construction? Not sureI've found it yet.... And in case others can help....I've been using Titebond II Extend for scarfsand sections. Usually all is well, but an apparently random selection ofscarf joints and even occasionally a longitudinal joint fails. I use freshglue and good strong clamping, and can't identify any factor that accounts next time around (for now I'm still in a rodmaking pause due to a move anda new job). Shell Epon that has been heat treated to Shell's specs is what I foundbest. The bad glue I mentioned was supposed to be Epon but was in fact not.Almost jumped over the counter after the guy's throat when he told me theformula they made had changed and didn't think it'd matter to me. While I'm at it....I participate in many lists (professional and amateur)and this is the most helpful levelheaded and good natured group I've seen. BarryThat's because it's so wide ranging and pan dimentional :-) Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy,Fortownsfolk have no time to grow, they have no time to waste. A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 08:55:15 2000 e8ODtCG15607 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:54:55 +0800 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:54:52 +0800 Subject: RE: Sv: Hock and Lie, Now Nodeless Glue "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" I wont mention the maker who told me about hide glue because it may besomething he doesn't want mentioned but it makes good sense to use it.It's a protien based glue which from memory and a guess based on highschool chem makes it basicaly cross linked by it's nature, it sticks likeshi* to a blanket , cures almost as fast as it cools making it great forgluing scarfs and although it will fail under heat during heatstraightening it'll set as good as new again once it's cooled.I haven't tried it yet but will sooner or later. Tony At 09:45 AM 9/24/00 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:Titebond II (Regular stuff) seems to be doing fine for me. Another maker told me recently he was switching to hide glue? Seems several guys have found that to be quite good. I just don't know if I need a glue pot on the already cluttered bench!Let us know if you found the holy grail of nodeless glues!Best regards,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Sep 24 09:25:48 2000 e8OEPlG16326 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:44:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I just figured he was fishing Tony ! GMA from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Sep 24 09:48:56 2000 e8OEmuG17244 07:48:52 PDT Subject: Re: Hock and Lie don't get their standard blade. request the a2 blade.it is another 20 bucks i believe. timothy --- stuart moultrie wrote:Hi everybody I am just in the process of ordering a Lie Nielsonplane and was verysuprised to lesrn that they do not accept Hockblades. I assume this iscorrect and that those of you using Lie Nielsonplanes also use theirblades...........How do they compare to Hock blades?They alsooffered me a "cryogenically treated blade" for theplane, any takers? Thanks Stuart ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Sep 24 09:52:56 2000 e8OEquG17438 Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:11:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Yes, and there are different types of carbide too. The super cooling issupposed to condense the molecules even tighter, which would make it taleanhold an edge better. It's being tried in engine parts too. Like Art, the "high speed" makes me wonder which type, H.S, Steel, orCarbide, is being used. GMA from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Sep 24 10:10:43 2000 e8OFAgG17900 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:10:37 -0400 "stuart.rod@gmx.de" ,"tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Hock and Lie Tim I second that - the standard blade edge seems to roll easily andthus dulls - I had talked with Tom at length about this and had tested thenew blade which is much better for rodmakers. Chris don't get their standard blade. request the a2 blade.it is another 20 bucks i believe. timothy --- stuart moultrie wrote:Hi everybody I am just in the process of ordering a Lie Nielsonplane and was verysuprised to lesrn that they do not accept Hockblades. I assume this iscorrect and that those of you using Lie Nielsonplanes also use theirblades...........How do they compare to Hock blades?They alsooffered me a "cryogenically treated blade" for theplane, any takers? Thanks Stuart ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from mep@mint.net Sun Sep 24 10:24:10 2000 e8OFOAG18278 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:23:55 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Good point, I wondered the same having been thru this very problem when Iasked my sonto make me one of these at the machine shop. What I got was a high speedsteel blanknot cut to the appropriate size. Which is why I'll take the chance withsomeone who isalready doing it before I try another "one off". Mike Art Port wrote: Fellas,Are we all talking about the same thing here? An alarm went off whenI sawthe words "high-speed" in Peter's response. We're not mixing up carbidewith high-speed steel are we? It certainly seems possible that someone isforging high-speed edges onto soft iron blanks a la Japanese chisels, no?Someone could be AWFULLY disappointed in their new blades if there is amisunderstanding....Art At 08:07 AM 09/24/2000 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it. I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 24 11:16:35 2000 e8OGGYG19361 Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie Tony,The reference to Epon and that the guy said the formula had changed and hedidn'tthink it would matter. Are you saying that it was not Epon or that it was adifferent Epon? When I bought my Epon from Bingham, out in Utah they toldme thatthe formula I was asking for had been replaced by a new one. I just looked atthebottle again and I think I'm going to have to call them because it says 826 not828. If Ralph Moon is out there, is this what you ordered from them lasttime? Thanks,Bill Walters Tony Young wrote: Barry, Tony -- What was the "right stuff" you found for nodeless construction? Not sureI've found it yet.... And in case others can help....I've been using Titebond II Extend for scarfsand sections. Usually all is well, but an apparently random selection ofscarf joints and even occasionally a longitudinal joint fails. I use freshglue and good strong clamping, and can't identify any factor thataccounts next time around (for now I'm still in a rodmaking pause due to a move anda new job). Shell Epon that has been heat treated to Shell's specs is what I foundbest. The bad glue I mentioned was supposed to be Epon but was in factnot.Almost jumped over the counter after the guy's throat when he told metheformula they made had changed and didn't think it'd matter to me. While I'm at it....I participate in many lists (professional and amateur)and this is the most helpful levelheaded and good natured group I've seen. BarryThat's because it's so wide ranging and pan dimentional :-) Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 11:37:12 2000 e8OGb9G19903 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:37:03 +0800 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:37:01 +0800 Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" LET ME SAY RIGHT NOW Shell Epon is great glue and NOT what was sold to mewhen I had a problem with glue failing.I can't stress enough the problem glue WAS NOT Shell Epon.The first lot of glue I bought from the local mob that sold me the glue waspoured from a 44 gal drum and was indeed Shell Epon and the correcthardener but in the mean time they went away from it making epoxy in housebased on Epon but more flexible for use as a base for marine paint, as Ilater discovered.I in my stupidity assumed it was the same stuff when I went back to buysome more and just asked for some more of the same glue. The individual Idelt with knew what I was asking for but thought the new formula was evenbetter then the original for making rods, you know, rods bend and all thatso didn't bother telling me of the change.It wasn't better. It was bad.Since getting the right stuff from Bingham Archery and post heating asadvised in the specs I've had no problems nor ever expect to.The resin I have now is 826 and is fine. Don't worry. I've made a fewnodeless rods with this including the two I brought with me to Greylingwhich I used at every possible moment and they are still going strongenough for me to be taking them to NZ in Nov without fear of failure.Incidently these rods (Driggs and Dickerson 7614) were not post heated butthe results from my bench testing are better if you do. Tony At 12:16 PM 9/24/00 -0400, Bill Walters wrote:Tony,The reference to Epon and that the guy said the formula had changed andhedidn'tthink it would matter. Are you saying that it was not Epon or that it was adifferent Epon? When I bought my Epon from Bingham, out in Utah they toldme thatthe formula I was asking for had been replaced by a new one. I just lookedat thebottle again and I think I'm going to have to call them because it says826 not828. If Ralph Moon is out there, is this what you ordered from them lasttime? Thanks,Bill Walters /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 24 11:47:29 2000 e8OGlSG20258 Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie Tony,Are you using Epon for your nodeless splices? Bill W. Tony Young wrote: LET ME SAY RIGHT NOW Shell Epon is great glue and NOT what was sold tomewhen I had a problem with glue failing.I can't stress enough the problem glue WAS NOT Shell Epon.The first lot of glue I bought from the local mob that sold me the glue waspoured from a 44 gal drum and was indeed Shell Epon and the correcthardener but in the mean time they went away from it making epoxy inhousebased on Epon but more flexible for use as a base for marine paint, as Ilater discovered.I in my stupidity assumed it was the same stuff when I went back to buysome more and just asked for some more of the same glue. The individual Idelt with knew what I was asking for but thought the new formula was evenbetter then the original for making rods, you know, rods bend and all thatso didn't bother telling me of the change.It wasn't better. It was bad.Since getting the right stuff from Bingham Archery and post heating asadvised in the specs I've had no problems nor ever expect to.The resin I have now is 826 and is fine. Don't worry. I've made a fewnodeless rods with this including the two I brought with me to Greylingwhich I used at every possible moment and they are still going strongenough for me to be taking them to NZ in Nov without fear of failure.Incidently these rods (Driggs and Dickerson 7614) were not post heatedbutthe results from my bench testing are better if you do. Tony At 12:16 PM 9/24/00 -0400, Bill Walters wrote:Tony,The reference to Epon and that the guy said the formula had changed andhedidn'tthink it would matter. Are you saying that it was not Epon or that it was adifferent Epon? When I bought my Epon from Bingham, out in Utah theytoldme thatthe formula I was asking for had been replaced by a new one. I just lookedat thebottle again and I think I'm going to have to call them because it says826 not828. If Ralph Moon is out there, is this what you ordered from them lasttime? Thanks,Bill Walters /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 11:55:10 2000 e8OGt7G20610 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:55:02 +0800 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:55:01 +0800 Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Yes I do. It's a hasle from the point of view it takes so long betweengluing and planing but I've found the real problem you encounter withnodeless rods is scarf failure during heat straightening if the glue youuse for scarfs fails before the glue for the splines becomes maliable so Iuse the same glue through out.Incidently I bind the scarfs with thread and plane the thread off duringthe initial planing in the first form.That is of course when I make rods nodeless. Tony At 12:47 PM 9/24/00 -0400, Bill Walters wrote:Tony,Are you using Epon for your nodeless splices? Bill W. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Sep 24 14:03:41 2000 e8OJ3eG23524 Subject: RE: Sv: Hock and Lie, Now Nodeless Glue, Now Hide Glue But isn't hide glue water soluble when set? I thought that was the mainreason for intermediate wraps on older rods, many (most?) of which weremadewith hide glue. BK -----Original Message----- ' Subject: RE: Sv: Hock and Lie, Now Nodeless Glue I wont mention the maker who told me about hide glue because it may besomething he doesn't want mentioned but it makes good sense to use it.It's a protien based glue which from memory and a guess based on highschool chem makes it basicaly cross linked by it's nature, it stickslikeshi* to a blanket , cures almost as fast as it cools making it great forgluing scarfs and although it will fail under heat during heatstraightening it'll set as good as new again once it's cooled.I haven't tried it yet but will sooner or later. Tony At 09:45 AM 9/24/00 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:Titebond II (Regular stuff) seems to be doing fine for me. Anothermaker told me recently he was switching to hide glue? Seems several guys have found that to be quite good. I just don't know if I need a glue pot onthe already cluttered bench!Let us know if you found the holy grail of nodeless glues!Best regards,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun Sep 24 14:20:24 2000 e8OJKNG24023 Subject: hide glue for splices --=====================_22336074==_.ALT See the Munro site under adhesives.http://www.munrorodco.com/catadhesives.htm Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_22336074==_.ALT See the Munro site under adhesives.http://www.munrorodco.com/catadhesives.htm Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_22336074==_.ALT-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Sep 24 16:42:34 2000 e8OLgWG27410 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Organization: vet Good morning, Art I am definitely talking High-speed steel here. I haven't got any as yet, andto be quite frank, don't really know the difference between the two; BUT itwas, without any doubt, the words "high speed" that were used to me whentheproduct was described. I asked Brian whether he had in stock any Hock blades, which I think aregreat; he said he did not, but could offer me laminated Japanese blades(which I could remember someone on this List trialling and finding wanting)or these H/S blades, which, he said, they have a Sydney Company modify byfitting a tip of H/S steel to the standard Stanley & Record irons. With the $Aust sitting (squatting, really) in the low 50's US, there areobvious advantages in the Australian product if it's any good, for both ofus. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Fellas,Are we all talking about the same thing here? An alarm went off when I sawthe words "high-speed" in Peter's response. We're not mixing up carbidewith high-speed steel are we? It certainly seems possible that someone isforging high-speed edges onto soft iron blanks a la Japanese chisels, no?Someone could be AWFULLY disappointed in their new blades if there is amisunderstanding....Art At 08:07 AM 09/24/2000 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it. I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike from anglport@con2.com Sun Sep 24 18:04:40 2000 e8ON4dG29384 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Peter,There is a WORLD of difference between carbide and high-speed steel.Whilethe HSS is an excellent metal, the carbide has a structure that is so hardit can't even be sharpened using the normal methods. You need a "greenwheel" to even touch its edge.Carbide is to steel what the carbine is to the musket! During our CivilWar the boys in the South described the Sharpes Rifle, which the Union wasable to supply to its troops, as someting you could wind up on Sunday andshoot all week! I believe George Barnes, who uses ( and brazes his own )carbide, says he can make SEVERAL rods before sharpening a blade. NowTHAT's an improvement over Hock, or anybody else!I don't doubt you'll see a difference with the HSS, but it sounds asthough they're getting the same price to attach that as they would if theywere doing the carbide; THAT makes it an iffy deal in my book.Thanks,Art At 08:40 AM 09/25/2000 +1000, petermckean wrote:Good morning, Art I am definitely talking High-speed steel here. I haven't got any as yet, andto be quite frank, don't really know the difference between the two; BUT itwas, without any doubt, the words "high speed" that were used to me whentheproduct was described. I asked Brian whether he had in stock any Hock blades, which I think aregreat; he said he did not, but could offer me laminated Japanese blades(which I could remember someone on this List trialling and finding wanting)or these H/S blades, which, he said, they have a Sydney Company modify byfitting a tip of H/S steel to the standard Stanley & Record irons. With the $Aust sitting (squatting, really) in the low 50's US, there areobvious advantages in the Australian product if it's any good, for both ofus. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 10:45 PMSubject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Fellas,Are we all talking about the same thing here? An alarm went off when Isawthe words "high-speed" in Peter's response. We're not mixing up carbidewith high-speed steel are we? It certainly seems possible that someone isforging high-speed edges onto soft iron blanks a la Japanese chisels, no?Someone could be AWFULLY disappointed in their new blades if there is amisunderstanding....Art At 08:07 AM 09/24/2000 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it. I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 24 19:44:26 2000 e8P0iQG01622 Subject: Toning cane Bob Nunley mentioned a means by which he gets dark cane by post heattreating the strips at about 330 degrees for an hour. Does anyone elsedo their darkening this way. The break test that bob posted with thislooked pretty good. I'm doing some testing of my own and it seems toreally stiffen up the cane.The next thing I'm going to try is acombination of heat browning and then ammonia treating the way Waynedescribes it in his new book (clear tube in the sun attached to bottlewith ammonia in it). Just looking for ideas. Thanks. Bill Walters from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sun Sep 24 19:57:23 2000 e8P0vNG02123 ;Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:57:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Toning cane Bill, I bake my cane that way (in a hot air oven) and get pretty consistentresults. I wouldn't say it's overly dark though, just a nice dark honeycolor. The last two rods I made were heavily flamed. It's a totallydifferent approach, but the resluting effect is, in my opinion much moresatisfying. If you're looking to get really dark cane I'd say that'sthe way to go. Even after torching my bamboo I still oven treat it. The oven heating does a good job of stiffening the strips whether flamedor not. Good luck, Dennis Bill Walters wrote: Bob Nunley mentioned a means by which he gets dark cane by post heattreating the strips at about 330 degrees for an hour. Does anyone elsedo their darkening this way. The break test that bob posted with thislooked pretty good. I'm doing some testing of my own and it seems toreally stiffen up the cane.The next thing I'm going to try is acombination of heat browning and then ammonia treating the way Waynedescribes it in his new book (clear tube in the sun attached to bottlewith ammonia in it). Just looking for ideas. Thanks. Bill Walters from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Sep 24 20:19:51 2000 e8P1JoG02791 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons About a year ago I bought one of the new Veritas low angle planes from LeeValley (Canadian firm). The plane has an extra thick blade made from A2tool steel hardened to rockwell 60. I have reground the blade to obtain a60 to 65 degree angle between the base and the cutting edge. I have sixplanes in use, all with hock blades, but the Veritas is the one I go to forfine work. On my last rod I planed 12 tip strips without resharpening justto push it to see how well it would stand up. To quote their most recentcatalogue "we found these A2 blades held a keen edge five times longerthan both OEM blade and high carbon steel (Hock?) replacement blades". Price wise the Veritas Plane is in between the Stanley and Lie Nielsen at$125 Cdn.( approx. $82 US)----------From: petermckean Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane ironsDate: Sunday, September 24, 2000 6:40 PM Good morning, Art I am definitely talking High-speed steel here. I haven't got any as yet,andto be quite frank, don't really know the difference between the two; BUTitwas, without any doubt, the words "high speed" that were used to me whentheproduct was described. I asked Brian whether he had in stock any Hock blades, which I think aregreat; he said he did not, but could offer me laminated Japanese blades(which I could remember someone on this List trialling and findingwanting)or these H/S blades, which, he said, they have a Sydney Company modifybyfitting a tip of H/S steel to the standard Stanley & Record irons. With the $Aust sitting (squatting, really) in the low 50's US, there areobvious advantages in the Australian product if it's any good, for bothofus. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 10:45 PMSubject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Fellas,Are we all talking about the same thing here? An alarm went off when Isawthe words "high-speed" in Peter's response. We're not mixing up carbidewith high-speed steel are we? It certainly seems possible that someoneisforging high-speed edges onto soft iron blanks a la Japanese chisels,no?Someone could be AWFULLY disappointed in their new blades if there is amisunderstanding....Art At 08:07 AM 09/24/2000 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it.I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Sep 24 20:48:00 2000 e8P1lxG03507 Subject: Carbide tipped block plane irons This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- C3E3DBB5A9D57492567CFC58 Friends,Below is a forwarded copy of my correspondence with thefolks Peter and Tony have mentioned. Sounds like they knowwhat they're doing to me. Anybody know how I go aboutordering in Aussie dollars? Is it anything like Monopolymoney? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------C3E3DBB5A9D57492567CFC58 ; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:37:53 +1100 Subject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons Harry,Thanks for your enquiryYes we do market alternative blades for the Stanley Blocks although not inCarbide. Although it is theoretically quite possible to sharpen TungstenCarbide to an edge that is sharp enough for hand plane blades the problemremains the durability of the edge as TC is quite brittle. To my knowledgethere are no TCT hand plane blades on the market. TCT on circular blades,router cutters and planer knives relies on "beating the wood to death" so tospeak and cutting edges and hook angles are much blunter than you wouldprefer for a handplane. We offer High Speed Steel tipped blades or Japanese laminated steel bladesto suit the 9 1/2 Block. You can see them on our websitewww.thewoodworks.com.au Search on S3572 and S3585 (our productcodes) orsearch more generally using the words plane blade for a look at all weoffer. The HSS blades have a high tungsten content and are well suited toapplications such as yours and also working certain woods with a lot ofcell- bound silicate and man made board materials which are generally quiteabrasive. I know much less about the Japanese steel versions. The price on theseblades suggest a mass produced laminated blade which would likely be akin towestern versions of laminated blades but they are well regarded by ourcustomers also. Item S3570 AUD$41.42Item S3585 AUD$47.10Postage would be AUD$8 by economy air. Usually gets to you inside 7 days. Best wishesMike Jefferys ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Carbide tipped block plane irons Friends,An Aussie friend suggested that a group of makers of bamboo fishingrods contact you for plane irons with carbide tips. I'm very interestedin any irons you might supply for Stanely or Record style 9.5 blockplanes. I've looked over your website, and not found what I was lookingfor. If you could send a specific link, I would be grateful. Thank you,Harry BoydUSA --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------C3E3DBB5A9D57492567CFC58-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Sep 24 21:43:06 2000 e8P2h5G04921 Subject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons --=====================_11688813==_.ALT Hi Harry:The best way would be to do it on a credit card. That way you get the best exchange. Other than that, you might need to do a bank transfer or cashiers check, and that could cost up to $15. Credit is the best way. I know Tony takes it, and that works out best for me when I get ferrules from him.Best regards,Bob Anybody know how I go aboutordering in Aussie dollars? Is it anything like Monopolymoney? Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_11688813==_.ALT Hi Harry:The best way would be to do it on a credit card. That way you get thebest exchange. Other than that, you might need to do a bank transfer orcashiers check, and that could cost up to $15. Credit is the best way. Iknow Tony takes it, and that works out best for me when I get ferrules from him.Best regards,Bob Anybody know how I go about anything like Monopolymoney? Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_11688813==_.ALT-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Sep 24 21:45:07 2000 e8P2j6G05067 Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie, Now Nodeless Glue, Now Hide Glue Barry,Hide glue is water soluble, but for a rod to reach the point of delaminatingbecause of moisture it would have to be kept in a very hostile, high-humidity,environment for an extended period--- long enough for the moisture topenetratethe finish.After 1920's intermediate wraps were less common on rods, but hide gluewasstill in use.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "Kling, Barry W." wrote: But isn't hide glue water soluble when set? I thought that was the mainreason for intermediate wraps on older rods, many (most?) of which weremadewith hide glue. BK from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Sep 24 22:08:48 2000 e8P38lG05947 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:16:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons --------------341A7C38276994C23CCB43E2 I got some pins from N.Z. and the bank Charged me17.00 for sending 18.00 to NZ. Then there was theexchange rate. It ended up costing me right 50.00with postage and all.. I guess a Credit card wouldbe different.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. bob maulucci wrote: Hi Harry:The best way would be to do it on a credit card.That way you get the best exchange. Other thanthat, you might need to do a bank transfer orcashiers check, and that could cost up to $15.Credit is the best way. I know Tony takes it,and that works out best for me when I getferrules from him.Best regards,Bob Anybody know how I go about ordering in Aussie dollars? Is it anythinglike Monopolymoney? Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --------------341A7C38276994C23CCB43E2 I got some pins from N.Z. and the bank Charged me 17.00 for sending 18.00to NZ. Then there was the exchange rate. It ended up costing me right 50.00with postage and all.. I guess a Credit card would be different. bob maulucci wrote: The best way would be to do it on a credit card. That way you get thebest exchange. Other than that, you might need to do a bank transfer orcashiers check, and that could cost up to $15. Credit is the best way.I know Tony takes it, and that works out best for me when I get ferrules from him.Best regards,BobAnybody know how I go about like Monopolymoney? Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --------------341A7C38276994C23CCB43E2-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Sep 24 22:37:47 2000 e8P3blG06822 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:37:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Ted,Have you tried one of the "sure 'nuff" carbide tipped blades? Once I getthe blasted things sharp, and it takes some doing, I find that I can plane atleast an entire rod before I have to sharpen again. The truth is, I now haveseven carbide tipped blades, and have only sharpened a few times this year.I'd really like to have a side by side comparison with Hock blades, A2blades, and carbide blades. Hmmm, sounds like a good idea for one of thegatherings. Harry Ted Knott wrote: About a year ago I bought one of the new Veritas low angle planes from LeeValley (Canadian firm). The plane has an extra thick blade made from A2tool steel hardened to rockwell 60. I have reground the blade to obtain a60 to 65 degree angle between the base and the cutting edge. I have sixplanes in use, all with hock blades, but the Veritas is the one I go to forfine work. On my last rod I planed 12 tip strips without resharpening justto push it to see how well it would stand up. To quote their most recentcatalogue "we found these A2 blades held a keen edge five times longerthan both OEM blade and high carbon steel (Hock?) replacement blades".Price wise the Veritas Plane is in between the Stanley and Lie Nielsen at$125 Cdn.( approx. $82 US)----------From: petermckean Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane ironsDate: Sunday, September 24, 2000 6:40 PM Good morning, Art I am definitely talking High-speed steel here. I haven't got any as yet,andto be quite frank, don't really know the difference between the two; BUTitwas, without any doubt, the words "high speed" that were used to mewhentheproduct was described. I asked Brian whether he had in stock any Hock blades, which I think aregreat; he said he did not, but could offer me laminated Japanese blades(which I could remember someone on this List trialling and findingwanting)or these H/S blades, which, he said, they have a Sydney Company modifybyfitting a tip of H/S steel to the standard Stanley & Record irons. With the $Aust sitting (squatting, really) in the low 50's US, there areobvious advantages in the Australian product if it's any good, for bothofus. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 10:45 PMSubject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Fellas,Are we all talking about the same thing here? An alarm went off when Isawthe words "high-speed" in Peter's response. We're not mixing upcarbidewith high-speed steel are we? It certainly seems possible that someoneisforging high-speed edges onto soft iron blanks a la Japanese chisels,no?Someone could be AWFULLY disappointed in their new blades if there isamisunderstanding....Art At 08:07 AM 09/24/2000 -0400, mep wrote:My guess is I would be better off purchasing one and shipping it fromAustralia than trying to find a shop to do a "one off" here. I'll watch for Peter, perhaps he'll pick one up for me and send it.I'dbe happy to send him a check. Mike --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 24 23:27:27 2000 e8P4ROG08415 +0800 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons Steady on there Harry, I know it's not worth much but it's all we've got.I can tell you from experience the best method of payment is credit card. If you don't feel comfortable transmitting it you could fax the details.Internationl cheques cost you whatever the back charges and the recipient afew bucks as well and I doubt these guys would take a personal chequebecause they take 6 weeks to clear and cost $15 to bank.As a rought estimate the costs incl postage are: $Aust 55.81 = $US30.70$Aust 49.42 = $US27.18 You've got to think it's worth a punt eh?Makes you think it's worth looking into what else is available from Austdon't you :-) Tony At 08:46 PM 9/24/00 -0500, you wrote:Friends,Below is a forwarded copy of my correspondence with thefolks Peter and Tony have mentioned. Sounds like they knowwhat they're doing to me. Anybody know how I go aboutordering in Aussie dollars? Is it anything like Monopolymoney? Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Mon Sep 25 06:35:56 e8PBZtG15123 Subject: Plane blads What will hold the edge best, High Speed Steel tipped blades orJapanese laminated steel blades? TIA, regardsdanny from mep@mint.net Mon Sep 25 06:48:27 2000 e8PBmQG15453 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:48:14 -0400 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Perhaps they would do it with carbide if they knew there was a market? Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 06:49:10 2000 e8PBn7G15467 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:48:58 +0800 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:48:55 +0800 Subject: Re: Plane blads About 15 years back I had a laminated Japanese plane iron for my 60 1/2andI thought it was great. I'd use it all day dressing epoxy laminated kneesor keels or whatever when I was involved with boat making. Somebody elseliked it just as much and pinched it one day BUT I read on this list abouta year agao somebody bought one of these and thought it was terrible atedge holding.The HSS irons would be better in any case simply becasue they'd be lessprone to chip damage. The Japanese irons seemed as brittle as china whichis why mine at least had such a great edge and kept it. Tony At 01:38 PM 9/25/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:What will hold the edge best, High Speed Steel tipped blades orJapanese laminated steel blades? TIA, regardsdanny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 06:58:33 2000 e8PBwUG15921 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons "'RODMAKERS'" Sounds like there is a technical problem with the edge cracking up.What do you think TS? Tony At 07:45 AM 9/25/00 -0400, mep wrote:Perhaps they would do it with carbide if they knew there was a market? Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Sep 25 08:09:34 2000 e8PD9SG17476 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:09:15 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons Mike,I have to admit that the idea sounds interesting, albeit expensive. Just soyou will know, I haven't paid more than $30US for any of the carbide tippedplane irons. Of course, I supplied the original irons, so the cost was only forthe brazed tips.Some were done semi-professionally, some done in homeworkshops. thick. Because the edge lasts so long, that length seems sufficient. Thecarbide is then ground to the desired angle, typically between 30 and 35degrees. Almost all bamboo rod makers use an angle of 30* or greater. Thereason for such steep angles has to do with the material being planed. Bamboo,at each node, has very twisted "grain," and the higher angle tends to helpprevent tear-out at the nodes. The original grinding just establishes theangle, and is done on green Norton stones.Final honing is done on leather wheels, coated with diamond paste in 3-5micron grits. I don't know the technicalites, but under 30x magnification theedge appears perfectly smooth. There is little question that a quality bladelike the Hock will take a finer edge, but the 3-5 microns gives an edge plentysharp for our purposes.Again, I will cc this to the Rodmakers List-Serv and see what interestarises. I'll also forward this to Tom Smithwick and George Barnes who knowmuchmore about the process than I do. Thank you for taking the time to makesomeinquiries into this process. Harry Mike Jefferys wrote: Harry,I'm very interested in what you write.Our business, like many others no doubt, has a lot of unquestioned lorewhich is learnt and repeated and becomes holy writ. I have just called mysaw doctor, who is the best we know and heaven knows there are somebutchersabout. He confirms that yes, he has very occasionally had to sharpen TCThand plane blades and that, consistent with my earlier advice that theytendto be brittle - due to the granular/crystalline nature of carbide - it isfeasible to tip blades. He has given me an indicative quote based on a 5/8"wide leading edge of carbide 3/32" thick. He would sharpen to any angle asrequired or by default would choose an angle of around 25 degrees to givean optimum trade off of sharpness and durability. He says he would put a"mirror polish on the edge" with a 600grit diamond grind/hone. (This isachieved more by the feed rate of the grinder than the actual grit BTW.).I'm not sure what you have paid for your earlier blades but we would supply anywarranty, other than workmanship, might be a problem.If this interests you please let me know and I'll explore further.Mike ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:29 PMSubject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons Thanks again, Mike. I'll give it a little more thought. One thing I would mention is that I have seven different plane ironstipped withcarbide. Each was done for me by a friend. Only trouble is, he died thisspring. The carbide blades are a BIG pain to sharpen. But once sharp,theyremain that way for quite a long time. For instance, here in the US mostbamboorod makers use plane blades from Ron Hock, hardened to c62 on theRockwellscale. With a Hock blade, I can plane three to six strips betweensharpenings.With the carbide tipped blade, I can plane ten times as many stripsbetweensharpenings. I know it's asking more than customary, but is there any way you couldcomparethe High Speed Steel blades to Ron Hock blades? One of my Aussiefriends,PeterMcKean, has ordered some of the high speed steel blades from you. PerhapsPeterwill be able to make a fair comparison. Thanks,Harry Mike Jefferys wrote: Harry,Right now it's simple - about 2 of yours for one of ours! If you have acredit card it's very straight forward.Mike----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:49 AMSubject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons Mike,Thank you for your thorough and informative reply. I haveforwardedthisinformation to the Rodmakers List-serv email group. We have about600bamboorodmakers worldwide in our group.Let me study your website a little further before making anydecisionsaboutpurchasing. If I do decide to buy, I hope you know more about gettingmyUSdollars into Aussie dollars than I do! Thanks again,Harry Boyd Mike Jefferys wrote: Harry,Thanks for your enquiryYes we do market alternative blades for the Stanley BlocksalthoughnotinCarbide. Although it is theoretically quite possible to sharpenTungstenCarbide to an edge that is sharp enough for hand plane blades theproblemremains the durability of the edge as TC is quite brittle. To myknowledgethere are no TCT hand plane blades on the market. TCT on circularblades,router cutters and planer knives relies on "beating the wood todeath"so tospeak and cutting edges and hook angles are much blunter than youwouldprefer for a handplane. We offer High Speed Steel tipped blades or Japanese laminatedsteelbladesto suit the 9 1/2 Block. You can see them on our websitewww.thewoodworks.com.au Search on S3572 and S3585 (ourproductcodes)orsearch more generally using the words plane blade for a lookatall weoffer. The HSS blades have a high tungsten content and are well suited toapplications such as yours and also working certain woods with alotofcell- bound silicate and man made board materials which aregenerallyquiteabrasive. I know much less about the Japanese steel versions. The price ontheseblades suggest a mass produced laminated blade which would likelybeakin towestern versions of laminated blades but they are well regarded byourcustomers also. Item S3570 AUD$41.42Item S3585 AUD$47.10Postage would be AUD$8 by economy air. Usually gets to you inside7days. Best wishesMike Jefferys ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 11:01 PMSubject: Carbide tipped block plane irons Friends,An Aussie friend suggested that a group of makers of bamboofishingrods contact you for plane irons with carbide tips. I'm veryinterestedin any irons you might supply for Stanely or Record style 9.5blockplanes. I've looked over your website, and not found what I waslookingfor. If you could send a specific link, I would be grateful. Thank you,Harry BoydUSA --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Sep 25 08:15:02 2000 e8PDF1G17866 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:14:57 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Stuck ferrules I get a stuck ferrule this summer on my trip to Nova Scotia. Had a helpertry to pull it off with me. It came off - that is, the female part cameright off the butt! So when I got home I made a puller and tried to getthem apart with that. All I achieved was pulling the welt off! Finallycareful applications of heat and cold and a needle-nosed pliers got themapart, and in good enough condition so that I was able to use them again tofix the rod. Even managed to save the welt. -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 12:12 AM Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules If getting a helper doesn't do it, then a puller is THE way ! GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Sep 25 08:17:40 2000 e8PDHdG18095 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:17:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Tony,I, too, would like to hear from Tom or George, or someone with moreexperience. I've only been using the carbide blades for about 18 months. Myexperience has been that the edges do tend to crack up. But it takes a long,long time! As you might guess, I've had better luck with edges sharpened tosteeper angles, up to about 45* in a Stanley 9.5. Harry Tony Young wrote: Sounds like there is a technical problem with the edge cracking up.What do you think TS? from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Sep 25 08:21:58 2000 e8PDLwG18361 Subject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons Ooops,I really should've snipped most of my last post before sending it. Myapologiesto the list, and Jerry Foster specifically, for wasting so much space in thearchives. Harry Harry Boyd wrote: Mike,I have to admit that the idea sounds interesting, albeit expensive. Justso from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Sep 25 08:36:19 2000 e8PDaIG19098 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:54:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide tipped block plane irons BTW, the "green" stone needed to grind carbide is called silicone carbide,when you look in a catalog for these wheels. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 08:36:21 2000 e8PDaHG19096 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:36:05 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Your experience with the steeper angle is right and is why the LN scraper(or any scraper for that matter)makes a better job of the nodes than a plane. It's well to remember block planes are the ideal tool for planing bamboobecause of their size and ability to adjust the throat but the angle ofattack of the edge as the iron comes isn't ideal because it's *designed* toclean up end grain and not plane along it though obviously you *can do*that too but it's a case of pressing it into service it wasn't designed todo so a steeper angle on the edge would benefit though it will addresistance to the planing and the edge would prob dull faster. Tony At 08:15 AM 9/25/00 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Tony,I, too, would like to hear from Tom or George, or someone with moreexperience. I've only been using the carbide blades for about 18 months. Myexperience has been that the edges do tend to crack up. But it takes along,long time! As you might guess, I've had better luck with edges sharpened tosteeper angles, up to about 45* in a Stanley 9.5. Harry Tony Young wrote: Sounds like there is a technical problem with the edge cracking up.What do you think TS? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Sep 25 08:44:44 2000 e8PDiiG19794 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:03:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I have a couple of knives, purchased back in the '60's, for $.99 cents !These have "Mora Sweden" stamped in the hilt of the blade. I have no ideawhat they are, but they hold an edge longer in carving than any steel I'veever seen. What is unique, is that a 3 layer structure can be clearly seen,with the center being the steel that really holds an edge. Carsten, or anyone, do you know what steel this is ? Travers Tool, and others list carbide strips in most any size one couldwant. I'll check today, and see what I can find that could be brazed to makeup a carbide tipped iron. GMA from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Sep 25 08:45:22 2000 e8PDjLG19836 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 25 Sep 2000 09:45:17 -0400 Subject: Grinding wheels While on the subject of grinding wheels, I'm shopping for a grinder. I'm 1. Make and sharpen metal lathe bits;2. place a precise angle on my plane blades prior to sharpening;3. finish the edge of my plane blades. Th grinders I've been looking at all have two wheels. What type opfgrinding wheels are required for such tasks? Thanks in advance, Richard from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 09:07:59 2000 e8PE7uG21395 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:07:49 +0800 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:07:49 +0800 Subject: Re: Grinding wheels a white wheel and keep the fine grey one for wood working chisels and planeirons unless you get a HSS iron. Tony At 09:04 AM 9/25/00 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote:While on the subject of grinding wheels, I'm shopping for a grinder. I'm 1. Make and sharpen metal lathe bits;2. place a precise angle on my plane blades prior to sharpening;3. finish the edge of my plane blades. Th grinders I've been looking at all have two wheels. What type opfgrinding wheels are required for such tasks? Thanks in advance, Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Sep 25 09:19:44 2000 e8PEJhG22371 +0200 Subject: Sv: Carbide tiped plane irons e8PEJiG22372 Mora Sweden is an old factory, makings knives and other steel things,history going back several hundred years. Mora is a town, still lotsof steel making factories there. As I remember, the middle layer, the one holding the edge, is a highcarbon steel. The layer on each side can be ordinary steel, cheap, orstainless steel. Mora knives are nothing fancy, just good quality knivesthat are used for everyday work. Still today I can buy a blade for some3 USD. Not stainless (more expensive) but an OK quality. The edgeholding qualities are nothing special, I'd say on par with a standardplane blade. The method of layering steel for blades is old. The japs have done it forcenturies,as well as Arabian and spanish swordmakers. Knive blades made inDenmark this way starts at around 100 USD - no upper limit. They canbe real pieces af art. regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I have a couple of knives, purchased back in the '60's, for $.99 cents !These have "Mora Sweden" stamped in the hilt of the blade. I have no ideawhat they are, but they hold an edge longer in carving than any steel I'veever seen. What is unique, is that a 3 layer structure can be clearly seen,with the center being the steel that really holds an edge. Carsten, or anyone, do you know what steel this is ? Travers Tool, and others list carbide strips in most any size one couldwant. I'll check today, and see what I can find that could be brazed to makeup a carbide tipped iron. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Sep 25 09:41:38 2000 e8PEfbG23674 Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:58:50 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Grinding wheels My machine shop tool grinder has a std. roughing wheel, and a fine siliconecarbide wheel (green) for finish work. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 09:46:55 2000 e8PEkqG24021 Subject: Re: Sv: Carbide tiped plane irons I've forged Damascus knives, nothing to get excited about as far as looksgo but they work very well.They're really hard work to make because of all the hammering and foldingetc but worth it because they can be very, very tough yet take and hold agood edge and you can get some amazing patterns.The Japanese blacksmiths were true masters and I take my hat off them.A bit excessive for plane irons though I think. I might just explain that my suddenly increased presence on the list isbecause I'm strapped to my desk till I get some outstanding work done andas soon as it is I'm back to my workshop where I belong :-) Tony The method of layering steel for blades is old. The japs have done it forcenturies,as well as Arabian and spanish swordmakers. Knive blades made inDenmark this way starts at around 100 USD - no upper limit. They canbe real pieces af art. regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- From: nobler Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:49 PMSubject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I have a couple of knives, purchased back in the '60's, for $.99 cents !These have "Mora Sweden" stamped in the hilt of the blade. I have no ideawhat they are, but they hold an edge longer in carving than any steel I'veever seen. What is unique, is that a 3 layer structure can be clearly seen,with the center being the steel that really holds an edge. Carsten, or anyone, do you know what steel this is ? Travers Tool, and others list carbide strips in most any size one couldwant. I'll check today, and see what I can find that could be brazed tomakeup a carbide tipped iron. GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 09:49:13 2000 e8PEnAG24216 +0800 Subject: Attn Jerry Snider Jerry,I tried to reply off list but your address bounced my message.Sorry to all on the list.Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Sep 25 10:20:41 2000 e8PFKeG26184 IAA28283 (5.5.2650.21) "'avyoung@iinet.net.au'" Subject: RE: Carbide tipped plane irons that is why the Morgan hand mill has such a easy time with nodes. the twocarbide blade that are in it are really a cross between angled blades andscraper blades but lean much towards the scraper angle on the cutters. I cantell or feel no difference in it's cutting either the nodes or the sections in-between them. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Your experience with the steeper angle is right and is why the LN scraper(or any scraper for that matter)makes a better job of the nodes than a plane. It's well to remember block planes are the ideal tool for planing bamboobecause of their size and ability to adjust the throat but the angle ofattack of the edge as the iron comes isn't ideal because it's *designed* toclean up end grain and not plane along it though obviously you *can do*that too but it's a case of pressing it into service it wasn't designed todo so a steeper angle on the edge would benefit though it will addresistance to the planing and the edge would prob dull faster. Tony At 08:15 AM 9/25/00 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Tony,I, too, would like to hear from Tom or George, or someone with moreexperience. I've only been using the carbide blades for about 18 months. Myexperience has been that the edges do tend to crack up. But it takes along,long time! As you might guess, I've had better luck with edges sharpenedtosteeper angles, up to about 45* in a Stanley 9.5. Harry Tony Young wrote: Sounds like there is a technical problem with the edge cracking up.What do you think TS? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Sep 25 10:31:17 2000 e8PFVGG26692 IAA15436 (5.5.2650.21) "'nobler@satx.rr.com'" Subject: RE: Carbide tipped plane irons I have a set of chisels and some plane irons made by the E.A.Berg company from eskeltuna Sweden that I used as a violin maker that hold edges betterthan anything that I've tried including the so called superior Japaneselaminated steel, in fact I gave my Japanese chisels to an apprentice assomething for him to start with. The company went out of business about 30years ago but their stuff can still be found at the usual used tool places.They are some what had to find as the cabinet makers that know aboutthem, swoop every one they see. I've noticed that in the articles in find woodworking when they show the authors bench about 90% of the time there isE.A.Berg chisels hanging on their chisel rack or laying on their bench in frontof them. My boss had a degree in metallurgy and said that they didn't knowjust why they were superior, that thought that maybe it was some howrelated to the type and amount of sulfur content in the coal they used tomake steel. There is still cu!!tting edge tools made in that town today - I haven't used any of those but ifanybody has some Bergs they want to get rid of CALL ME!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I have a couple of knives, purchased back in the '60's, for $.99 cents !These have "Mora Sweden" stamped in the hilt of the blade. I have no ideawhat they are, but they hold an edge longer in carving than any steel I'veever seen. What is unique, is that a 3 layer structure can be clearly seen,with the center being the steel that really holds an edge. Carsten, or anyone, do you know what steel this is ? Travers Tool, and others list carbide strips in most any size one couldwant. I'll check today, and see what I can find that could be brazed to makeup a carbide tipped iron. GMA from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Sep 25 12:17:57 2000 e8PHHuG01562 ;Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:17:44 +0200 , Subject: Sv: Carbide tipped plane irons e8PHHuG01565 If You happen to find knives of the EKA brand, grab them. EskilstunaKnivfabrik AB stillmakes some of the best blades in the world. The swedes were always good atmakingsteel out of ore and fabricating stuff. Bofors happens to be in Eskilstuna aswell. The tradition for making knives, swords, and later rifles and guns, started inEskilstunain 1659, when a german named Rademacher was asked by the swedish kingto start a factorySince then the town has had many factories dealing in steel - still have. Swedish cutting tools are amongst the best - (Sandvik Scraper to mentionone brand) buy when You havethe chance. regards Carsten - native of Denmark ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Carbide tipped plane irons I have a set of chisels and some plane irons made by the E.A.Berg company from eskeltuna Sweden that I used as a violin maker that hold edges betterthan anything that I've tried including the so called superior Japaneselaminated steel, in fact I gave my Japanese chisels to an apprentice assomething for him to start with. The company went out of business about 30years ago but their stuff can still be found at the usual used tool places.They are some what had to find as the cabinet makers that know aboutthem, swoop every one they see. I've noticed that in the articles in find woodworking when they show the authors bench about 90% of the time there isE.A.Berg chisels hanging on their chisel rack or laying on their bench in frontof them. My boss had a degree in metallurgy and said that they didn't knowjust why they were superior, that thought that maybe it was some howrelated to the type and amount of sulfur content in the coal they used tomake steel. There is still !cu!!tting edge tools made in that town today - I haven't used any of those butif anybody has some Bergs they want to get rid of CALL ME!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:49 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I have a couple of knives, purchased back in the '60's, for $.99 cents !These have "Mora Sweden" stamped in the hilt of the blade. I have no ideawhat they are, but they hold an edge longer in carving than any steel I'veever seen. What is unique, is that a 3 layer structure can be clearlyseen,with the center being the steel that really holds an edge. Carsten, or anyone, do you know what steel this is ? Travers Tool, and others list carbide strips in most any size one couldwant. I'll check today, and see what I can find that could be brazed tomakeup a carbide tipped iron. GMA from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Sep 25 12:47:48 2000 e8PHllG02759 KAA28604 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: urac I followed J. Zimny's advice and instead of heat curing my urac glued rod, Ijust kept it a 70 degrees for 4 days and It stiffened right up. Those of youusing urac might try that instead of heat curing. Major thank you John!!!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from RBalex@webtv.net Mon Sep 25 13:24:13 2000 e8PIOAG04311 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA19807; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:24:06 - ETAsAhQKN6YMrg6V+IwsstUj8CC9Bl9zKgIULgnhJbMD24TwoQ85s2Z8RqFpahQ= Subject: Paul Young Perfectionist Would anyone have the Paul Young Perfectionist taper?; Mine is missingthe 50" dimension/ ThanksAlex Wolff from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Sep 25 14:25:19 2000 e8PJPEG09233 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 25 Sep 2000 15:25:10 -0400 Subject: Gillum rods As I prepare for a trip to a Lake Ontario tributary to fish for chinook andcoho salmon, I've realized I'm seriously underpowered and should probablybuild a salmon rod. I'm considering one of the Gillum tapers from Howell'sbook, perhaps the 8'6" 7 wt or the 8'10" 8wt. Has anyone on the list builtor cast one of these? If so, any comments would be much appreciated. Many thanks, Richard from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Sep 25 14:50:31 2000 e8PJoTG10217 12:50:21 PDT Subject: Re: Gillum rods richard, you gotta' be good if you're gonna have itdone for this trip. :-) you must use an expensiveplane with a carbide edge. :-) ...or some new fangledplaning form that grips the spline and adjusts itself.what's your secret method? timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:As I prepare for a trip to a Lake Ontario tributaryto fish for chinook andcoho salmon, I've realized I'm seriouslyunderpowered and should probablybuild a salmon rod. I'm considering one of theGillum tapers from Howell'sbook, perhaps the 8'6" 7 wt or the 8'10" 8wt. Hasanyone on the list builtor cast one of these? If so, any comments would bemuch appreciated. Many thanks, Richard ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Sep 25 15:12:27 2000 e8PKCPG11300 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Gillum rods Richard, I've fished for the kings in new york and canada in the riversaround lake huron and lake ontario. I used eight and nine foot eight weights(pyh para 17), and had a great deal of difficulty moving the fish. Youmight want to consider a nine weight rod such as the bob doerr by PYH.To each his own. Good luck. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: Gillum rods As I prepare for a trip to a Lake Ontario tributary to fish forchinook andcoho salmon, I've realized I'm seriously underpowered and shouldprobablybuild a salmon rod. I'm considering one of the Gillum tapers fromHowell'sbook, perhaps the 8'6" 7 wt or the 8'10" 8wt. Has anyone on the listbuiltor cast one of these? If so, any comments would be much appreciated. Many thanks, Richard from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Sep 25 16:14:25 2000 e8PLENG14383 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 03:32:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Carsten I have a feeling you may just be spoiled, as these Mora blades arefar better than many knives made here for 200 x's the price I paid ! Afterall, with hundreds of years experience behind them.....why not ! GMA from bob@downandacross.com Mon Sep 25 16:47:08 2000 e8PLkvG16146 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Grinding wheels --=====================_3926181==_.ALT I like the wetstone and leather wheel ones, as on my Tormek. Great edges every time.Best regards,Bob At 09:04 AM 9/25/00 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote:While on the subject of grinding wheels, I'm shopping for a grinder. I'm 1. Make and sharpen metal lathe bits;2. place a precise angle on my plane blades prior to sharpening;>3. finishthe edge of my plane blades. Th grinders I've been looking at all have two wheels. What type opfgrinding wheels are required for such tasks? Thanks in advance, Richard Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_3926181==_.ALT I like the wetstone and leather wheel ones, as on my Tormek. Great edgesevery time. Best regards,Bob At 09:04 AM 9/25/00 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote:While on the subject of grinding wheels, I'mshopping for a grinder. I'm 1. Make and sharpen metal lathe bits;2. place a precise angle on my plane blades prior to sharpening;3. finish the edge of my plane blades. Th grinders I've been looking at all have two wheels. What type opfgrinding wheels are required for such tasks? Thanks in advance, Richard Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_3926181==_.ALT-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Sep 25 16:54:32 2000 e8PLsUG16595 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Organization: vet Carsten I have a set of three Mora woodcarvers' knives, and they are quite amazinglygood. Among other things I used them as part of my cane splitting processbefore Richard and Bob Freed me forever from that torment. Now they arejustgenerally useful - easy to sharpen, hold a REALLY good edge, and hols it fora long time. I would recommend them to anybody. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: Carbide tiped plane irons Mora Sweden is an old factory, makings knives and other steel things,history going back several hundred years. Mora is a town, still lotsof steel making factories there. As I remember, the middle layer, the one holding the edge, is a highcarbon steel. The layer on each side can be ordinary steel, cheap, orstainless steel. Mora knives are nothing fancy, just good quality knivesthat are used for everyday work. Still today I can buy a blade for some3 USD. Not stainless (more expensive) but an OK quality. The edgeholding qualities are nothing special, I'd say on par with a standardplane blade. The method of layering steel for blades is old. The japs have done it forcenturies,as well as Arabian and spanish swordmakers. Knive blades made inDenmark this way starts at around 100 USD - no upper limit. They canbe real pieces af art. regards,carsten ----- Original Message -----From: nobler Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:49 PMSubject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I have a couple of knives, purchased back in the '60's, for $.99 cents !These have "Mora Sweden" stamped in the hilt of the blade. I have no what they are, but they hold an edge longer in carving than any steelI'veever seen. What is unique, is that a 3 layer structure can be clearlyseen,with the center being the steel that really holds an edge. Carsten, or anyone, do you know what steel this is ? Travers Tool, and others list carbide strips in most any size one couldwant. I'll check today, and see what I can find that could be brazed tomakeup a carbide tipped iron. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Sep 25 16:57:12 2000 e8PLvBG16795 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 04:15:43 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Grinding wheels When rough grinding the major angle on an iron, great care should be takento allow the iron to cool with every few passes. It's very important to justwait, and allow the steel to cool in the air, rather than constantquenching. Above all don't allow the steel to turn blue ! GMA from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Sep 25 17:32:07 2000 e8PMW7G18140 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/25/0 12:00:18 PM, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Tony - My experience is the same as Harry's. I don't think there is a problem. The carbide will go a long time before breaking down, then you regrind. It takes longer to regrind and sharpen than a steel blade, but then they go for a long time again. I also cannot get them quite as sharp as I can get a Hock, but they are plenty sharp enough. from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Sep 25 17:34:07 2000 e8PMY6G18277 ,, Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules Next time this happens try gluing the ferrule back onto the section it cameoff. Then pull again. ----------From: Seth Steinzor Subject: RE: Stuck ferrulesDate: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:15 AM I get a stuck ferrule this summer on my trip to Nova Scotia. Had ahelpertry to pull it off with me. It came off - that is, the female part cameright off the butt! So when I got home I made a puller and tried to getthem apart with that. All I achieved was pulling the welt off! Finallycareful applications of heat and cold and a needle-nosed pliers got themapart, and in good enough condition so that I was able to use them againtofix the rod. Even managed to save the welt. -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 12:12 AM Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules If getting a helper doesn't do it, then a puller is THE way ! GMA from oakmere@carol.net Mon Sep 25 18:07:02 2000 e8PN71G19586 Subject: RE: Hexagraph Ferrules Hi Folks: I have just been reading the discussion about hexagraph rods and spigotferrules. I have only seen some of the hexagraphs made in the UK severalyears ago - don't remember who made them. It is my opinion based onengineering mechanics that spigot ferrules with sharp corners would havehigh stress risers at the "sharp" corners than would cylindrical ferrules(metal or whatever). Just my .02cents to the discussion. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from briansr@point-net.com Mon Sep 25 18:20:19 2000 e8PNKIG20045 Subject: Advertising by twits Has anyone read the Adverts for"Justin Charles "rods??Talk about false andmisleading advertising !!! Reginald J.Mitchell must be turning over in hisgrave!!!Someone seriously f---ed up !!!Cheers Brian from briansr@point-net.com Mon Sep 25 18:30:19 2000 e8PNUIG20349 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:28:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules Frank You are rightBTW the Hexagraph ferruls ARE cylindrical.They were, and still are, built byBruce & Walker.I have a # 7,8,9 ft Hexagraph that was originally all black Ihave painted the blank to look like cane even to painting in nodes along thestrips.Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Hexagraph Ferrules Hi Folks: I have just been reading the discussion about hexagraph rods and spigotferrules. I have only seen some of the hexagraphs made in the UK severalyears ago - don't remember who made them. It is my opinion based onengineering mechanics that spigot ferrules with sharp corners would havehigh stress risers at the "sharp" corners than would cylindrical ferrules(metal or whatever). Just my .02cents to the discussion. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from bob@downandacross.com Mon Sep 25 18:30:53 2000 e8PNUqG20413 Subject: Re: Advertising by twits --=====================_10148789==_.ALT No. What's the deal here, Brian. Sounds interesting.Thanks,Bob At 07:13 PM 9/25/00 -0400, brian sturrock wrote:Has anyone read the Adverts for"Justin Charles "rods??Talk about falseandmisleading advertising !!! Reginald J.Mitchell must be turning over in hisgrave!!!Someone seriously f-- -ed up !!!Cheers Brian Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_10148789==_.ALT No. What's the deal here, Brian. Sounds interesting.Thanks,Bob At 07:13 PM 9/25/00 -0400, brian sturrock wrote:Has anyone read the Adverts for"JustinCharles "rods??Talk about false andmisleading advertising !!! Reginald J.Mitchell must be turning over inhisgrave!!! Cheers Brian Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_10148789==_.ALT-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Sep 25 19:21:13 2000 e8Q0LCG21935 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) "'rod 'akers'" Subject: RE: Gillum rods richard, you gotta' be good if you're gonna have itdone for this trip. :-) you must use an expensiveplane with a carbide edge. :-) ...or some new fangledplaning form that grips the spline and adjusts itself.what's your secret method? timothy Hi Tim, Since these fish are so big, I just cut a culm down to 8'6" and tie theline around the tip end. It doesn't cast too well but it can sure turn afish. Richard from briansr@point-net.com Mon Sep 25 21:56:22 2000 e8Q2uLG25838 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:56:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Advertising by twits This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C02743.6A71AA20 Hi bobthe ad is in the latest Fly Fisherman on pg 18Quote "Technology borrowed from the WW!! Spitfire "which they claimed =was made of wood etc.And "the resins bonded the wood fibres,filled voids =and also repelled moisture heat and cold." You'd be REALLY hard =pressed to find ANY wood in a Spit.Mosquitoes and Hornets however which =WERE made of wood suffered from delamination in the tropics due to =moisture and heat!!As far as the Me163 and the Volksjeiger,I don't =believe they flew in the tropics or had a long operational life.in other = Mitchell was the designer of the Spitfire.Cheers Brian Sent: 25 septembre, 2000 19:27Subject: Re: Advertising by twits No. What's the deal here, Brian. Sounds interesting.Thanks,Bob At 07:13 PM 9/25/00 -0400, brian sturrock wrote: Has anyone read the Adverts for"Justin Charles "rods??Talk about =false andmisleading advertising !!! Reginald J.Mitchell must be turning over =in hisgrave!!!Someone seriously f---ed up !!!Cheers Brian Bob Maulucci ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C02743.6A71AA20 Hi bobthe ad is in the latest Fly Fisherman on pg =18Quote "Technology borrowed from the WW!! Spitfire = claimed was made of wood etc.And "the resins bonded the wood = Me163 and the Volksjeiger,I don't believe they flew in the tropics or = operational life.in other woids dey shooda dun their research before = Mitchell was the designer of the =Spitfire.Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- maulucci rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: 25 septembre, 2000 =19:27Subject: Re: Advertising by =twits interesting.Thanks,BobAt 07:13 PM 9/25/00 -0400,brian = sturrock wrote:Has anyone read the Adverts for"Justin= BrianBob Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines = ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C02743.6A71AA20-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Sep 25 21:57:06 2000 e8Q2v4G25928 19:57:00 PDT Subject: Re: Advertising by twits brian, who is justin charles and does he have a website and why is he a twit? timothy --- brian sturrock wrote:Has anyone read the Adverts for"Justin Charles"rods??Talk about false andmisleading advertising !!! Reginald J.Mitchell mustbe turning over in hisgrave!!!Someone seriously f---ed up !!!Cheers Brian ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.http://im.yahoo.com/ from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Sep 25 22:12:47 2000 e8Q3ClG26521 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:12:38 -0700 Sep 2000 03:12:37 GMT Subject: RE: Stuck ferrules FILETIME=[9FB9E9D0:01C02767] From: Seth Steinzor rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Stuck ferrulesDate: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:15:17 -0400 I get a stuck ferrule this summer on my trip to Nova Scotia. Had a helpertry to pull it off with me. It came off - that is, the female part cameright off the butt! So when I got home I made a puller and tried to getthem apart with that. All I achieved was pulling the welt off! Finallycareful applications of heat and cold and a needle-nosed pliers got themapart, and in good enough condition so that I was able to use them again tofix the rod. Even managed to save the welt. -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 12:12 AM Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules If getting a helper doesn't do it, then a puller is THE way ! GMA Seth- How did you go about repairing the welt? I had a similar problem with an old F.E. Thomas and would like to keep everything as original as possible (no new ferrule). - David Kashuba._________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 22:37:38 2000 e8Q3baG27332 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:36:59 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons petermckean@netspace.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I wonder if the perceived problem of the edge cracking up is caused byregular sharpening?If you hardly ever had to sharpen as I'd imagine would be the case on ahand plane that may explain why technically it wouldn't work but inpractice it seems to? Tony At 05:02 PM 9/25/00 -0500, nobler wrote: In a message dated 9/25/0 12:00:18 PM, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Tony - My experience is the same as Harry's. I don't think there is a problem. The carbide will go a long time before breaking down, then you regrind. It takes longer to regrind and sharpen than a steel blade, but then they go for a long time again. I also cannot get them quite as sharp as Ican get a Hock, but they are plenty sharp enough. from ???@??? Tue Sep 26 11:43:04 2000Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29346 invoked by uid 666); 25 Sep 2000 22:38:21 - 0000Received: from unknown (HELO wugate.wustl.edu) (128.252.120.1) e8PLt2G16672; Received: from cirrus.netspace.net.au (cirrus.netspace.net.au e8PLsUG16595 Received: from y7h2a1 (dialup-m1-16.Launceston.netspace.net.au /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from channer1@rmi.net Mon Sep 25 23:25:53 2000 e8Q4PqG28670 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons Tony Young wrote: I wonder if the perceived problem of the edge cracking up is caused byregular sharpening?If you hardly ever had to sharpen as I'd imagine would be the case on ahand plane that may explain why technically it wouldn't work but inpractice it seems to? Tony Tony;It's just the nature of carbide. i haven't used any carbide hand planeblades, but as a finish carpenter i go thru a lot of carbide tipped sawblades and router bits and that's what they do. It is so brittle, thatinstead of just dulling like a high speed steel bit would do, they breakout little chunks. I imagine that hitting nodes repeatedly would beenough to cause this to happen, I know a bad knot in the edge of a boardcan ruin a router bit in one pass, causing it to "write it's name" fromthere on. John from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Sep 25 23:41:20 2000 e8Q4fDG29136 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons John,you don't think it's heat and impact of a power tool do you?I'm very curious about this because carbide isn't seen in hand tools sopossibly the effect of high speed may case a power driven bit to burn outin a short time but a hand tool may go for years? Tony At 10:28 PM 9/25/00 -0600, you wrote: Tony Young wrote: I wonder if the perceived problem of the edge cracking up is caused byregular sharpening?If you hardly ever had to sharpen as I'd imagine would be the case on ahand plane that may explain why technically it wouldn't work but inpractice it seems to? Tony Tony;It's just the nature of carbide. i haven't used any carbide hand planeblades, but as a finish carpenter i go thru a lot of carbide tipped sawblades and router bits and that's what they do. It is so brittle, thatinstead of just dulling like a high speed steel bit would do, they breakout little chunks. I imagine that hitting nodes repeatedly would beenough to cause this to happen, I know a bad knot in the edge of a boardcan ruin a router bit in one pass, causing it to "write it's name" fromthere on. John /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from EESweet@aol.com Tue Sep 26 00:17:43 2000 e8Q5HgG00220 Subject: Stuck ferrules...the saga Hi All, First, thanks to everyone, and there were many, who replied with advice onmy ferrule problem. All the suggestions seemed to fall into a few categories; the two person assisted pull, the ice and heat method, the inner tube/jar opener for a better grip, penetrating oil, and the ferrule puller. For maximum efftect I combined a few of them and gave it a try. After icing the ferrules, a friend and I gripped the rod with inner tube strips and pulled. Nothing. Hmmm. OK, ice the ferrules some more, then heat the female with a match for a few seconds and pullllllll. That's when the female ferrule, the one that hadn't yet slipped, let go of the cane. So now I'm left with stuck ferrules, which in turn are stuck on the tip section! Funny thing is, the male ferrule has already slipped about 1/4" but won't go any further. So I'm soaking it in Attack, an epoxy dissolver, in the hopes that this will finish the job. If it does I guess I'll just buy some new ferrules and remount them. After two hours of soaking, it's still not budging, so I guess I'll give it another shot tomorrow. The true tragedy of this is that I couldn't take the rod with me on Sunday, when a friend and I had a good day of catching half pounders on the Yuba. So I was forced to enjoy these line rippers on graphite. Almost seemed like a sin... Cheers, Eric from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Sep 26 01:21:18 2000 [62.253.162.47] (may be forged)) e8Q6LHG01569 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:21:10 +0100 Subject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules Brian,B@W no loner make Hexagraph Fly Rods other than replacement sections .They still make coarse fishing rods ( bait rods )for barbel and carpfishing but stopped fly rod production at least three years ago,probably even longer.....there hexgraphs have a bad name in the UK ,particularly among Salmon fishers......the rods just delaminate !You are correct in that the ferrules are round but the male spigot isbonded into the hollow hexagraph section with the corners giving rise tohigh stress concentrations and......failures.....particularly on SpeyCasting rods.The same is true of the female ferrule.....I would neverhave one of these rods again.......Paul brian sturrock wrote: Frank You are rightBTW the Hexagraph ferruls ARE cylindrical.They were, and still are, built byBruce & Walker.I have a # 7,8,9 ft Hexagraph that was originally all black Ihave painted the blank to look like cane even to painting in nodes along thestrips.Cheers Brian----- Original Message -----From: "Frank W. Paul" Sent: 24 septembre, 2000 19:10Subject: RE: Hexagraph Ferrules Hi Folks: I have just been reading the discussion about hexagraph rods and spigotferrules. I have only seen some of the hexagraphs made in the UK severalyears ago - don't remember who made them. It is my opinion based onengineering mechanics that spigot ferrules with sharp corners wouldhavehigh stress risers at the "sharp" corners than would cylindrical ferrules(metal or whatever). Just my .02cents to the discussion. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 26 01:57:59 2000 e8Q6vvG02415 +0800 Subject: Carbide tipped & HSS block plane irons Just got off the phone to Wood Works Book and Tool Co who I must saystrikeme as a very helpful and conscientious mob.As things stand right now they have stock of HSS plane irons to suit post1985 model STANLEY block planes at about $Aust 45 plus about $AUST 8postage.Here and prob elsewhere Stanley outsells Record so that's all they've everstocked BUT I convinced them they need to do Record too so all it'll takeis for people to order them and I'm pretty sure they'll make a run becausethey only do them in runs of 20 which isn't many.Personally I think the HSS option is a good one and I'm going to order oneand hope others do too so a run is done.On the Tg tipped ones they have a Stanley iron at the saw doctor who doesthis work for them and they expect to have it back in a couple of days.They are as I mentioned very conscientious and don't want to makesomethingthat they don't believe will do the job. They will warrant the workmanshipbut because this is pretty new ground are reluctant to off a warranty forthe edge if it's the same as a standard angle.I suggested they try 35 deg if that would make them happy and that is probwhat they will try but I don't know what will eventually happen with thisexcept it is being done and we'll have a prototype to test soon.Mike didn't remember the name of the person he's dealt with except to sayhe has 7 carbide tipped irons already so possibly that person is gettingthe prototype?Who ever this person was Mike asked me to pass along his apologies for notexpanding more than the stock answer he gave you what ever that was butyouwere the first to ask and he didn't realise how serious we are in what weare doing. One thing they are concerned with is how the irons get treated. They areconvinced they wont hold up unless they are treated properly. I assuredthem that although there are beginners who may be a bit hard on their toolsuntil they learn to "listen" to them for the most part we treat them likereligious icons and he seemed to think it should be known that is theirmain concern with these.That is the same as I found with my Japanese laminated iron. The expected price based on a run of 6 units will be about $AUST 160, ifthe runs can be increased that would drop to a better price so it all comesdown to how the prototype goes and how prepared we are to put moneywhereour fingers are.As it happens we're not alone in this, bowers have a need for exactly thesame types of tooling as us and Wood Works Book and Tool Co will be contacting the bower's guild here inAust and see what their interest is.I would think these guys are not a huge concern but they aren't cowboyseither and will do their best to help. I have no interest in Wood Works Book and Tool Co but I must admit therunning pig dog capitalist in me has made me wonder if I shouldn't lookinto doing this myself. Something else we spoke of was there is a guy out here making what he callspalm planes but are Japanese/Viet-Namese/Chinese inspired block planes.I've used one and I can say they are superb to use on wood but as they aremade of Bullock Wood which is as hard as wood can imaginably be it isn'tthat long before the sole rounds when used with bamboo even though it has abrass mouth.The interesting thing about these planes is they have the highest ironangle of attack made for a bench plane which is good for bamboo, the ironsonly come in HSS and they are made so if you reverse the iron they become ascraper that is as good as an LN. There is no adjustment as in the LN butit's not needed because the angle is set right. They are about the samesize as a block plane, a bit longer.The only drawback is they don't have an adjustable mouth and the sole is asI wrote wood.I'll be talking to the maker to see if he is interested in modifying hisplanes when he's next in Perth on the traveling wood work show we haveevery 6 months.I'm having those running pig dog capitalist feelings again.... As an aside I was right in saying somebody should have warned these guys ofthe potential interest.Poor Brian at the shop has been away this week and has a pile of faxes andemails 2 inches thick to come back to work to and will prob have to takeanother couple of days off due to a nervous condition he'll no doubt getafter replying to them all.The bloke I talked to was very interested in if I knew what all the suddeninterest was and became very excited when he finally realised the how andwhy of it all and the potential demand if they make a good product at theright price. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 26 04:11:34 2000 e8Q9BWG04149 +0800 +0800 Subject: Carbide tipped & HSS block plane irons There must be a lot of insomnicas out there juding on the emails I'verecieved about my report on the state of play with these irons.A few people have become a little doscombobulated when it comes to HSSandtugnsten carbide.I'm not a metalurgest and I hope if one is out there I'm set straight inany thing I write which is incorrect as I'm relying on HS chem and a littletech from 20 years back and my knowlage is very basic but I think goodenough to work with.The steels form a matrix in structure which is naturaly very strong, themore metals you mix in an alloy the less like a regualr matix the alloybecomes. You need to add different metals to gain certain charistics butit's all a compromise as to gain something you give something else up. High carbon steel like Hock irons and good chisels etc are made from steelwith greater than 0.5 carbon content. Carbon is capable of making areasonably tough bonding between the other elements in the steel and thisis what helps keep a good edge because the carbon allows the steel todevelop good hardness during tempering. Note toughness and hardness aredifferent things. A blunt tough knife will take pounding and bending but ahard sharp one will snap if you try to do the same thing. Laminated steelslike Damascus steel combine these two charistics.High carbon steel isn't very good at keeping an edge if it's used in a hightemp application.The higher carbon content the less tough the alloy becomes so although acertain amount is needed to form and keep an edge too much is no goodeither because it'll be too brittle to keep an edge. HSS steel is more or less the same as any other high carbon tool steelexcept this also has mixtures of carbides to increase hight temp tolleranceas well as Molybdenum, Cobalt, Silicon etc.It's harder to get a good edge in HSS than high carbon steel and I thinkyou can get a better initial edge in carbon steel but as it doesn't keepthe edge as long the HSS would keep a good useful edge longer. Tungsten Carbide is so different to carbon and HSS as to be a differentkettle of fish altogether.While the carbon steel and HSS all form something of a matrix which isstrong Tg tools are a cemented mixture of Tungsten, cobalt and or nickeland other stuff and instead of forming a matrix like a Rubix Cube if youcan remember them the mix is more like a fruit cake with nuts and raisinsthat while they are a part of the mix are still seperate bits easily pickedout. Tg has hideously hight tensile strength and a melting point of I thinkaround 6200f which is why it's good for high speed tools like router bitsetc but because it's a cemented mixture with bits like nuts and rasinsthese will break off when the edge is too shallow and that's where theproblem seems to be with plane irons. Basicaly as a minimum to sharpen carbon tools well you need a regular greywheel and Arkansas or water stone. HSS needs a white wheel and Arkansas or water stone. Tungsten Carbide you need a green wheel and a diamond lapping setup. Of course as I wrote, this is super basic and possibly wrong but I find theabove sufficient to get by as far as a working understanding goes. Wood Works Book and Tool Co currently have HSS irons for STANLEY only butwill get irons made for Record if they are ordered. They are currently developing a Stanley iron with a tungsten tip but it'snot yet available but may be in as short a time as a couple of weeks. Thesewill be ground to whatever angle is deemed right and diamond lapped to amirror finish which is about as good as you could expect. Just in case you missed the contact for these blokes it's:Wood Works Book and Tool Co8 Railway RoadMeadowbankSydney NSW AustraliaPhone 02 9807 7244Fax 02 9807 7344www.thewoodworks.com.au If you're interested, hasle them and things will get moving faster. Tony /******* Prev message ******/Just got off the phone to Wood Works Book and Tool Co who I must saystrikeme as a very helpful and conscientious mob.As things stand right now they have stock of HSS plane irons to suit post1985 model STANLEY block planes at about $Aust 45 plus about $AUST 8postage. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Sep 26 05:15:45 2000 e8QAFhG04970 Subject: temperature in steel Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C027FE.B13CC460 Hello, all Just as a very unlearned addition to the discussion of plane irons; it =may seem very irrelevant to discuss the high temperature capabilities of =the steel used in the blades of hand tools, but I am amazed when I =examine the cutting edge (now there is an expression which has been =devalued by overuse!) on the blade of my Lie Nielsen scraper after use. I am a bit obsessive about sharp tools, and always have a polished =surface on the blade to begin with, and when you look at the beveled, or =back, surface after a few passes there is an obvious "peacock" =discolouration of the contact cutting surface reminiscent of colour case =hardening in firearms. So we must attain pretty high transient local temperatures when using =even hand tools, and using them pretty slowly at that. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C027FE.B13CC460 Hello, all Just as a very unlearned addition to = of plane irons; it may seem very irrelevant to discuss the high = has been devalued by overuse!) on the blade of my Lie Nielsen scraper = use. I am a bit obsessive about sharp tools,= have a polished surface on the blade to begin with, and when you look at = beveled, or back, surface after a few passes there is an obvious = discolouration of the contact cutting surface reminiscent of colour case = hardening in firearms. So we must attain pretty high transient= temperatures when using even hand tools, and using them pretty slowly at = that. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.=au "What is most emphatic in angling= the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C027FE.B13CC460-- from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Sep 26 07:32:48 2000 e8QCWlG06750 0400 Subject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C02795.2DC6FD80 ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C02795.2DD02540 Hi Paul, Your info is incorrect, take a look at this Hex deliver this year. This is acustom blank made to clients orders. Take care and Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Sep 26 07:34:22 2000 e8QCYLG06875 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:52:43 -0500 , Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons I'd like to see a really good carbide edge under a microscope, as therewould be little "hair" edges with carbide ! There are special ways tosharpen carbide. Sumitimo cutting tools (machine shop) have an exceptionaledge, and I have an idea they are sharpened in a very special way. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Sep 26 07:38:13 2000 e8QCcCG07082 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:56:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide tiped plane irons It's shock loads that chip carbide, as in feeding into a hard item at aheavy load rate. Lathe tools can cut very hard materials, and show littlewear. Now there are also ceramic cutters, that are even sharper ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Sep 26 07:56:56 2000 e8QCutG07734 Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:14:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules. That's a nice looking reel seat, but what does the blank look like ? GMA from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Sep 26 09:26:25 2000 e8QEQOG11554 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Grinding wheels Richard, Probably a better topic would be "what size" concerning a grinder. If you gowith the cheaper 5", you'll find that your choices in stones and grits isvery limited. I would highly suggest that you go with at least a 6" as youcan get a fair variety of grits in that size. Arbor size probably needs tobe discussed also. The 5" is a 1/2" arbor and again limits the sizes ofstones unless bushed. The 6"'ers, according to my MSC catalog, go 1/2",3/4"and 1". 7"'ers go 3/4" and 1", which also increases the choices. I suggestthat before going much further, you get a catalog from an abrasives outfitand see what's offered or visit a bunch of websites. Then you can make aneducated guess. I'd be interested in what the group has to say on this subject. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Grinding wheels While on the subject of grinding wheels, I'm shopping for a grinder. I'm 1. Make and sharpen metal lathe bits;2. place a precise angle on my plane blades prior to sharpening;3. finish the edge of my plane blades. Th grinders I've been looking at all have two wheels. What type opfgrinding wheels are required for such tasks? Thanks in advance, Richard from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Sep 26 10:21:38 2000 e8QFLaG14092 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:21:27 -0700 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:21:27 GMT Subject: Re: Gillum rods FILETIME=[70534C20:01C027CD] From: "Richard Nantel" Subject: Gillum rodsDate: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:44:39 -0400 As I prepare for a trip to a Lake Ontario tributary to fish for chinook andcoho salmon, I've realized I'm seriously underpowered and should probablybuild a salmon rod. I'm considering one of the Gillum tapers from Howell'sbook, perhaps the 8'6" 7 wt or the 8'10" 8wt. Has anyone on the list builtor cast one of these? If so, any comments would be much appreciated. Many thanks, Richard Both are very powerful and require no difficult casting techniques. Even I was able to push the 8wt to 100' without difficulty.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Sep 26 10:34:06 2000 e8QFY5G14634 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:33:50 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Carbide tipped & HSS block plane irons Tony Young wrote: Mike didn't remember the name of the person he's dealt with except to sayhe has 7 carbide tipped irons already so possibly that person is gettingthe prototype? Tony,I think I'm the guilty one mentioned above. For the sake of science, withnoselfish motives at all, :-))) I volunteered to be their "official" tester,although I haven't received a response yet! (Sorry guys, but someone has todoit, huh?) If their blades will fit a Stanely 9.5, I'll give them a workout.My only concern is price. Sounds like 3-4 times the cost of a Hock blade,ifmy arithmetic is correct in translating USD into Aussie dollars.If they balk on sending blades to the US for testing I hope you will checkthem out thoroughly for us Tony. And if your capitalistic urges get the bestofyou, let me know. I'd like to have a couple more blades. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Sep 26 12:41:23 2000 e8QHfKG19392 Subject: Flattening forms I've finally decided to start on building my planing forms. I haveseveral questions, and I've searched the archives, but no matter how Isearch I either get 100s of hits or none at all, tried wading throughthe hundreds but too time consuming. So, if this is old stuff, pleasehumor a newbie. 1. My easiest, closest, cheapest source of steel is actually a scrapyard. They have lots of 3/4" bar stock, but they don't have a cluewhether it is CRS, or hot rolled, or what. They refer to all of theirsteel bar stock as "hot roll" but they admit they don't what it reallyis, and don't know diddly about steel. How much does the choice ofsteel matter, and is there any easy way to identify the stuff I actuallywant? 2. Seems to me that the most time-consuming, drudgery-filled,insanity- inspiring part of the process is draw filing the necessary flatsurfaces. I have a pretty good selection of woodworking tools, butnothing on the order of a precision grinding/milling device. Is thereany alternative to drawfiling, or even a method to reduce the amount offiling necessary in flattening the faces? Any tips or ideas greatly appreciated. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Sep 26 13:14:05 2000 e8QIE0G20793 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:13:00 +0100 Subject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules. Tim,Mmmmmmmm, are these B&W blanks?Is so they are now only exporting.......you can't buy Hexagraph fly rodshere in the UK anymore and the old stocks were sold off by all thedealers at hugely discounted prices a few years ago now.B&W now only make hexagraph coarse rods......Paul Tim Doughty wrote: Hi Paul, Your info is incorrect, take a look at this Hex deliver this year.This is a custom blank made to clients orders. Take care and Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker Name: SV rod pkg.jpgSV rod pkg.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Sep 26 13:16:35 2000 e8QIGZG20922 Subject: Re: Flattening forms James, As with any project, enough $100 dollar bills will solve any problem.However, the draw filing does go quickly if you clamp it as close toflat as possible before starting. Turn on the game on the radio, get acold beverage of choice, and get after it. Also, don't plan to get itall done in one evening. I did just one side per evening, and was ableto get my forms ready to groove in just 3 evenings. Incidentally, thegrooving is underway and I am open to suggestions as to speed thisprocess up. Regards, Kevin from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Sep 26 13:41:17 2000 e8QIfHG22278 NAA24779 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 Subject: Re: Flattening forms James, The Vixen file is a wonderful tool for this job. If you can't finda genuine Vixen, Nicholson makes an equivalent which can be foundin some larger hardware stores. It will probably cost about as much as your steel but its worth every penny. Its existence is one of the valuable things I learned from this list. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from billh@inmind.com Tue Sep 26 14:04:57 2000 e8QJ4uG23484 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:53:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Flattening forms More info please, I did a search and only found a couple for sale at $6 in Kansas. What's so special about Vixen files? Is it the design, materials or what? I'm finished draw filing, I hope, but just in case I decide I need another set of forms some day. Thanks, bill hoy At 02:41 PM 9/26/00, Frank Stetzer wrote:James, The Vixen file is a wonderful tool for this job. If you can't finda genuine Vixen, Nicholson makes an equivalent which can be foundin some larger hardware stores. It will probably cost about as much as your steel but its worthevery penny. Its existence is one of the valuable things I learned from this list.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Sep 26 14:19:13 2000 e8QJJCG24100 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:26:59 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Flattening forms Snap On Tools still has them for 26.00. Some auto shops may still havesome around.It really cuts the filing time down.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Frank Stetzer wrote: James, The Vixen file is a wonderful tool for this job. If you can't finda genuine Vixen, Nicholson makes an equivalent which can be foundin some larger hardware stores. It will probably cost about as much as your steel but its worthevery penny. Its existence is one of the valuable things I learned from this list.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Sep 26 14:26:15 2000 e8QJQ3G24400 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:25:55 +0200 Subject: Sv: Flattening forms e8QJQFG24408 James My ideas probably differs from most others in this area too. SinceYou have no use for the same tips repeated ad nauseam, considerthis: ad 1 If it is steel, use it. Hot or cold, it dosn't matter. planing bamboodoesn't stress steel bar of the dimensions, You mention. My planingform, made as part of a bunch for me and fellow rodmakers, is madeof ordinary steel bar - nothing special except the price was right.They dont wobble, warp or othervise react to being used as planingforms. ad 2 flattening and mirrorfinish: If the surfaces with the grove are rightalongside each other, don't bother with filing. You dont use the surface,only the groove. Sorry, wrong, You use the surface when the plane nicksit. Clamp the two pieces with the approbiat number of clamps, measurethe "grooved in spe" surface and if OK, forget all that filing stuff, itsjust a waste of time. Steel bar is pretty accurate in dimensions whenfabricated, so there is no reason to make that nice shiny finish exceptthat it looks impressing. As long as the upper surface is straight and thegroove is centered, the rest is manicure. Rods are being made, succesfully, in forms made of wood, and I for surehaven+t heard of anyone varnishing the surface of a wooden planingformin order to have a mirror finish. Why should You bother with making amirrorfinish on a steel form, then? just my 2 cents - and expirience. regards, carsten from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Sep 26 14:29:57 2000 e8QJTuG24645 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:37:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Flattening forms James,My reply to you bounced. Do you have a glitch in your address.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com James wrote: from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Sep 26 14:52:27 2000 e8QJqQG25685 0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Flattening forms James,Frank is correct, the vixen file is the only way to go. How many ofyou guys remember Davy Riggs, the infamous former listmember? Davy me one several years ago, no charge. So I guess I got something for mymoney in that great cork escapade after all!! If you'd like to borrow thevixen file, let me know. I'll gladly loan it out.As far as the steel goes, you might try another place or two. Perhapsit's worth driving a few more miles to know what you are buying. I boughtmy CRS in a 12' bar and paid something less than $20 for it. Harry Frank Stetzer wrote: The Vixen file is a wonderful tool for this job. If you can't finda genuine Vixen, Nicholson makes an equivalent which can be foundin some larger hardware stores. It will probably cost about as much as your steel but its worthevery penny. Its existence is one of the valuable things I learned from this list. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Sep 26 14:53:52 2000 e8QJrpG25847 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:52:27 +0000 Subject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules. Tim,This explains why all the references I have seen to Hexagraph make noreference to Bruce and Walker .If I read you correctly ,it now appearsthat B&W now export there small sizes of Hexagraph to the US marketwhere a company called 'Hexagraph 'markets and sells them . from all the pictures of the US 'Hexagraphs' that I have ever seen theserods are fitted with nickel silver ferrules ( a la bamboo rods )whilethe B&W UK hexagraphs have only ever had an integral spigot /socketarrangement.B &W Hexagraph game rods haven't appeared intheir UK catalgue now for quite a few years.Your information re B&W now concentrating on tubular rods is largelycorrect , it was indeed unfortunate that they had such a bad time withhexagraph Salmon rods ( 12-17' in length)as the stresses imposed on themparticularly by the Spey casting boys gave the design a bad name as theintegral spigot/socket ferrules simply exploded due to delamination.The smaller sizes of rods for Trout say at 7-8' were generally fine rodsand I have never heard of any troubles with these sizes .It should be noted that in the small sizes these rods were about £300 UKsterling when launched.However when the dealers were trying to offload there stocks they were Hexagraph game rods were withdrawn from the UK market some dealers stillhave stocks for sale.....such a bad name have they that the UK anglerwill simply not buy them !In the UK freshwater fishing is divided into Game Angling and CoarsefishingGame Angling is for Trout ,Salmon and Grayling.Coarse Angling is fishing for any other species e,g Pike,Carp,Barbel,Tench,Roach,Rudd,Chub,Dace,Bream etc etc.B@W (in the UK )now only sell specialist Hexagraph rods for Carp andBarbel Fishing.These are typically 11-12' in length and are used forfishing bait in the form of maggots, worms, bread etc,etc...... Trust this now clarifies the situation for all interested.....thats ifyou all haven't fallen asleep Zzzzzzzzzz.....regards.....Paul Tim Doughty wrote: Hi Paul, These are indeed B&W blanks, and are exported to the north Americanmarket.The blank were engineered for Powell tapers, but with measuring and oversizes you can make other tapers and actions. B&W as I understand it areconcentrating on tubular graphite now. the spey rod market and Europeantapers. The introduction of these blanks by W. Powell was in the late 80's,with help from Gary Loomis for tooling up. Hexagraph owns themanufacturingrights in north America and Canada. just a short inquiry, what is "coarse rods", I am unclear about the term.Take care and Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:13 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules. Tim,Mmmmmmmm, are these B&W blanks?Is so they are now only exporting.......you can't buy Hexagraph fly rodshere in the UK anymore and the old stocks were sold off by all thedealers at hugely discounted prices a few years ago now.B&W now only make hexagraph coarse rods......Paul Tim Doughty wrote: Hi Paul, Your info is incorrect, take a look at this Hex deliver this year.This is a custom blank made to clients orders. Take care and Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker Name: SV rod pkg.jpgSV rod pkg.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Sep 26 15:24:16 2000 e8QKOFG27044 0400 Subject: Omar Needham: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C027D7.115AF740 Hi, I am looking for taper and action for Omar Needham of Maine. He also worked 50's, a client brought in a box full of blanks. This would help in verifyingblanks. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C027D7.115AF740 Hi, I am = taper and action for Omar Needham of Maine. He also worked for Orvis = started using impregnated bamboo. Late 40's to early 50's, a client = box full of blanks. This would help in verifying =blanks. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C027D7.115AF740-- from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Tue Sep 26 15:49:22 2000 e8QKnLG27943 Subject: Gluing-up straight This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C027C1.068AB960 I just had an amazing experience - I glued up a couple of tip sections =arrow straight right out of the binder. For the couple of years that =I've been making rods, I've always used resorcinol glue and bound by =hand. Because binding was so time consuming and hard on the hands, I =have wanted to build a binder for some time. I finally built a =Bellinger-style binder (if you haven't seen one yet, this is essentially =a Garrison style binder with two spools for the drive belt so you don't =have a splice in the belt and you are always binding with a clean belt). =To try out the binder I just glued up 2 tip sections for the F.E. =Thomas 6' 8" 3 wt in Jack Howell's book. I used polyurethane glue and =bound with nylon thread. To my amazement these tip sections came out of =the binder as straight as an arrow right down to the 0.050 tips. I've =done no straightening at all and they are the straightest sections I've =produced. Now I just scraped and sanded the glue off and measured them =and they are right on the design dimensions with less than a thousandth =variation between flats and no sign of glue lines, even in a polished =cross-section. I've always been skeptical about claims made by some =rodmakers about the accuracy of their rod sections, and I wouldn't = In the past I've always had sections come out with maybe 4 to 8 =thousandths greater than design specs and 3 or 4 thousandths variation =between flats. I had to spend 10 to 20 minutes straightening each =section while the glue was wet and another half hour or so straightening =and removing twists from each section with heat after taking it out of =the string. Then I had to spend a couple of hours scraping, sanding and =measuring to get the section down to design specs. I attributed the =inaccuracy of my glued-up blanks to inaccuracy in my home made planing =forms and the inherent limitations of bamboo, but now I think it must =have been due to inconsistency in the glue and binding pressure. The one problem remaining is that there is about a 15 degree twist in =both tips that appears to be uniformly distributed along the length of =the sections. The twist is in the direction that the first string was =wrapped. This would seem to be consistent with the second wrap being =tighter than the first owing to glue squeezing out of the joints from =compression by the first wrap. I used a 1 lb weight on the belt and =about 2 lb tension on the binding thread with no changes in weight or =tension between wraps. Jack Howell suggests increasing the weight on =the binder belt for the second wrap, decreasing the thread tension for =the second wrap, adding a third and possibly a fourth wrap, or some =combination of the above, to overcome the thread torsion problem. I =recall that Jeff Walker of R.L. Winston said that he presses on the =blank with his thumb while binding to eliminate the twist. Have others tried these solutions? If so, with what success? I'm =really intrigued with the possibility of never having to straighten =another blank. -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C027C1.068AB960 I just had an amazing experience -I = couple of years that I've been making rods, I've always used resorcinol = Bellinger-style binder (if you haven't seen one yet, this is essentially = Garrison style binder with two spools for the drive belt so you don't = out the binder I just glued up 2 tip sections for the F.E. Thomas 6' = straightening at all and they are the straightest sections I've = Now I just scraped and sanded the glue off and measured them and they = on the design dimensions with less than a thousandth variation between = skeptical about claims made by some rodmakers about the accuracy of = sections, and I wouldn't believe this myself if I weren't holding the = In the past I've always hadsections = with maybe 4 to 8 thousandths greater than design specs and 3 or 4 = each section while the glue was wet and another half hour or so = and removing twists from each section with heat after taking it out of = inaccuracy of my glued-up blanks to inaccuracy in my home made planing = the inherent limitations of bamboo, but now I think it must have been = inconsistency in the glue and binding pressure. The one problem remaining is that= a 15 degree twist in both tips that appears to be uniformly distributed = being tighter than the first owing to glue squeezing out of the joints = 2 lb tension on the binding thread with no changes in weight or tension = the second wrap, decreasing the thread tension for the second wrap, = third and possibly a fourth wrap, or some combination of the above, to = that he presses on the blank with his thumb while binding to eliminate = twist. Have others tried these = having to straighten another blank. -- Robert =Kope ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C027C1.068AB960-- from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Tue Sep 26 16:10:42 2000 e8QLAfG28896 e8QL9OZ49048;Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:09:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Flattening forms Hot-rolled steel is stress relieved, I think. I know the surface is muchrougher than cold-rolled and would thus require much more filing to to getit flat. Draw filing with a mill bastard file took me only about 1 hour perside using cold-rolled steel, so I wouldn't worry about it. Filing thegrooves took many hours with a triangular file. you need to keep cleaningthe teeth of the file every couple of passes. If I make another set offorms I'll use the thread cutting tool method to cut the grooves and thefile just to finish them. Regarding Vixen files: they cut very fast and smooth becasue they havelargecrescent shaped teeth the width of the file. They look like this:(((((((((((((((((((((((. In the Puget Sound area you can frequently findthem at Boeing Surplus for $3.00 per lb. -- Robert Kope-----Original Message----- Subject: Flattening forms I've finally decided to start on building my planing forms. I haveseveral questions, and I've searched the archives, but no matter how Isearch I either get 100s of hits or none at all, tried wading throughthe hundreds but too time consuming. So, if this is old stuff, pleasehumor a newbie. 1. My easiest, closest, cheapest source of steel is actually a scrapyard. They have lots of 3/4" bar stock, but they don't have a cluewhether it is CRS, or hot rolled, or what. They refer to all of theirsteel bar stock as "hot roll" but they admit they don't what it reallyis, and don't know diddly about steel. How much does the choice ofsteel matter, and is there any easy way to identify the stuff I actuallywant? 2. Seems to me that the most time-consuming, drudgery-filled,insanity- inspiring part of the process is draw filing the necessary flatsurfaces. I have a pretty good selection of woodworking tools, butnothing on the order of a precision grinding/milling device. Is thereany alternative to drawfiling, or even a method to reduce the amount offiling necessary in flattening the faces? Any tips or ideas greatly appreciated. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Sep 26 16:16:25 2000 e8QLGOG29186 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:09:10 -0700 Subject: RE: Omar Needham e8QLGOG29187 I think Joe Garman at www.popelance.com/rods.html had one for sale at hissite a few months back. He may be able to answer questions about theaction or other identifying features like node spacing, bamboo color etc. Therod is no longer listed, so I assume it sold. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu "Tim Doughty" 09/26/00 01:30PM Hi, I am looking for taper and action for Omar Needham of Maine. He also worked 50's, a client brought in a box full of blanks. This would help in verifyingblanks. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Sep 26 16:24:47 2000 e8QLOkG29653 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:24:34 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Grinding wheels Definitely go with a 6" wheel as a minimum, and most decent grinding wheelshave knock outs, for most any shaft size now. Be sure there is a good, sturdy steady rest for each wheel too. GMA from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Sep 26 16:24:49 2000 e8QLOmG29657 Subject: Re: Hexagraph Ferrules. OK, It seems there is an interest in this plastic product so here is theU.S. companyHexagraph Rod Company9919 Hornpipe LaneHouston, TX 77080USAphone 1-800-870-4711The 1995 brochure I'm looking at says they are manufactured under U.S.patent No. 4582758 but doesn't say where they are made. It shows andstates Super Swiss nickle silver ferrules. from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 26 16:30:36 2000 e8QLUaG00117 Subject: Re: Omar Needham Tim, Joe was a very good friend of Mr. Needham....Rich Colo-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Omar Needham I think Joe Garman at www.popelance.com/rods.html had one for sale at hissite a few months back. He may be able to answer questions about theactionor other identifying features like node spacing, bamboo color etc. The rodis no longer listed, so I assume it sold. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu "Tim Doughty" 09/26/00 01:30PM Hi, I am looking for taper and action for Omar Needham of Maine. He alsoworked 50's, a client brought in a box full of blanks. This would help inverifyingblanks. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Sep 26 16:52:28 2000 e8QLqQG01408 Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:52:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Flattening forms James, hot rolled steel will have a black surface, while CR steel will havea relatively smooth, plain metal surface. CR will also cut with a fileeasily. I'm not sure about this with HR, as I've never used it. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 26 20:13:03 2000 e8R1D0G06676 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:12:39 +0800 Subject: Re: Grinding wheels "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" I agree, the other advantage of larger diameter wheels is they last longerand the radius that is ground into the face of the edge is wider. Tony At 08:30 AM 9/26/00 -0600, Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote:Richard, Probably a better topic would be "what size" concerning a grinder. If you gowith the cheaper 5", you'll find that your choices in stones and grits isvery limited. I would highly suggest that you go with at least a 6" as youcan get a fair variety of grits in that size. Arbor size probably needs tobe discussed also. The 5" is a 1/2" arbor and again limits the sizes ofstones unless bushed. The 6"'ers, according to my MSC catalog, go 1/2",3/4"and 1". 7"'ers go 3/4" and 1", which also increases the choices. I suggestthat before going much further, you get a catalog from an abrasives outfitand see what's offered or visit a bunch of websites. Then you can make aneducated guess. I'd be interested in what the group has to say on this subject. Jim----- Original Message -----From: "Richard Nantel" Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:04 AMSubject: Grinding wheels While on the subject of grinding wheels, I'm shopping for a grinder. I'm 1. Make and sharpen metal lathe bits;2. place a precise angle on my plane blades prior to sharpening;3. finish the edge of my plane blades. Th grinders I've been looking at all have two wheels. What type opfgrinding wheels are required for such tasks? Thanks in advance, Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 26 20:18:08 2000 e8R1I5G06906 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:17:58 +0800 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:17:56 +0800 Subject: Re: Carbide tipped & HSS block plane irons I think it was you Harry and I also think they had you in mind as theguinea pig.Re price, I did mention that would be a problem because it was quite a bitmore than people were expecting and Mike took that on board.If this works ok I'd still think it was worth considering even though it ismore than 3x the price of a Hock because of just how long the edge wouldlast. I know I prefer my Hock to the std irons but it still needssharpening. The HSS irons still sound a good compromise. These are aboutthe same price as a Hock and may be better at keeping the edge too. Tony At 10:31 AM 9/26/00 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Tony Young wrote: Mike didn't remember the name of the person he's dealt with except tosayhe has 7 carbide tipped irons already so possibly that person is gettingthe prototype? Tony,I think I'm the guilty one mentioned above. For the sake of science,with noselfish motives at all, :-))) I volunteered to be their "official" tester,although I haven't received a response yet! (Sorry guys, but someone hasto doit, huh?) If their blades will fit a Stanely 9.5, I'll give them a workout.My only concern is price. Sounds like 3-4 times the cost of a Hockblade, ifmy arithmetic is correct in translating USD into Aussie dollars.If they balk on sending blades to the US for testing I hope you willcheckthem out thoroughly for us Tony. And if your capitalistic urges get thebest ofyou, let me know. I'd like to have a couple more blades. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 26 20:34:58 2000 e8R1YuG07389 Subject: Ammonia toning I'm still researching how to tone the two strip Quad I'm building. I'mbuilding it nodeless and thinking of using Ammonia to tone the strips.My question is, how chemically inert does Epon become after its cured?Would the Ammonia potentially weaken the bond if I do the toning afterscarfing the strips together? Someone mentioned that using swabbing withtannin (tea) before exposing the strips to Ammonia fumes gives betterbrowning. Anybody familiar with this? from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Sep 26 21:21:00 2000 e8R2KxG08734 ;Wed, 27 Sep 2000 02:20:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Ammonia toning Bill The reports I've received on building two strip Quads nodelesshave not been good - You will bust a splice easily - the advice has beento build with nodes on this rod. There is no supporting material for thesplices and people have tried but w/o good results. Just food for thought. Chris On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:35:06 -0400, Bill Walters wrote: I'm still researching how to tone the two strip Quad I'm building. I'mbuilding it nodeless and thinking of using Ammonia to tone the strips.My question is, how chemically inert does Epon become after its cured?Would the Ammonia potentially weaken the bond if I do the toning afterscarfing the strips together? Someone mentioned that using swabbing withtannin (tea) before exposing the strips to Ammonia fumes gives betterbrowning. Anybody familiar with this? from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Sep 26 21:30:56 2000 e8R2UuG09054 TAA28005 Subject: Re: Ammonia toning Fuming, which is what the ammonia treatment is called in furniturefinishing, has the most impact on wood with high levels of tannic aid. Oakis most commonly fumed with dramatic results while cherry is more subtleandfuming maple has very little effect. The tea bath will leave tannic acid onthe cane which the ammonia (a base) reacts with. PAul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ammonia toning I'm still researching how to tone the two strip Quad I'm building. I'mbuilding it nodeless and thinking of using Ammonia to tone the strips.My question is, how chemically inert does Epon become after its cured?Would the Ammonia potentially weaken the bond if I do the toning afterscarfing the strips together? Someone mentioned that using swabbing withtannin (tea) before exposing the strips to Ammonia fumes gives betterbrowning. Anybody familiar with this? from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Sep 26 22:01:51 2000 e8R31oG10061 Subject: Re: Ammonia toning In a message dated 9/27/0 1:35:45 AM, wlwalter@bellatlantic.net writes: I agree with Chris. The Epon will most likely fail, in fact, I have seen it do so. Splices on a two strip rod are the toughest test in rodmaking for a glue, IMHO. I have a spliced two strip put together with resourcinol which has stayed together, and I guess Urac would work as well, but stay away from epoxy or titebond. I am confident that resourcinol would survive theammonia. Gluing up the center seam on a two strip is another matter. Any reasonable glue seems to work well. from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Sep 26 23:07:54 2000 e8R47rG11791 Subject: Calgary, AB Rodmakers, Anyone on this list in the Calgary area? Please contact me off list, asI will be in Calgary over the weekend and am interested in any fishingpossibilities. Kevin Buchanan from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Wed Sep 27 05:09:41 2000 e8RA9eG17681 Subject: Re: Ammonia toning Thanks Tom, I'll get some resourcinol to try the splices then. TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/27/0 1:35:45 AM, wlwalter@bellatlantic.net writes: building it nodeless and thinking of using Ammonia to tone the strips. >> I agree with Chris. The Epon will most likely fail, in fact, I have seen itdo so. Splices on a two strip rod are the toughest test in rodmaking for aglue, IMHO. I have a spliced two strip put together with resourcinol whichhas stayed together, and I guess Urac would work as well, but stay awayfromepoxy or titebond. I am confident that resourcinol would survive theammonia.Gluing up the center seam on a two strip is another matter. Anyreasonableglue seems to work well. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Sep 27 05:16:09 2000 e8RAG7G17868 Subject: Re: Flattening forms Organization: vet Carsten Up to a point, I agree with what you say, but..... I have a wooden form (and in some ways wish that is where I had stopped),and don't spend much time worrying about the surface, but probably becauseit is so easy to whack the wood through a thicknesser before you start tomake the forms and it's as near to flat as makes no difference. The thermal and stress deformation characteristics of wood as a material isvery different from that of metal, and in such a way as to be lessdisturbing to the planer of bamboo. It seems to me that only by having a reasonably smooth and bright surfaceonthe steel can you set the forms in the first place , or assess and correctany problems which arise. I am currently working on my forms, followingadvice received from Larry and others, and the corrections do seem to beworking well; though I expect that the biggest step forward will come whenthe bars are finally dowelled. If nothing else, smoothness and stabilitywould seem to be a big step in eliminating random inaccuracies. Other than that, yes, I agree with what you say. Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: Flattening forms James My ideas probably differs from most others in this area too. SinceYou have no use for the same tips repeated ad nauseam, considerthis: ad 1 If it is steel, use it. Hot or cold, it dosn't matter. planing bamboodoesn't stress steel bar of the dimensions, You mention. My planingform, made as part of a bunch for me and fellow rodmakers, is madeof ordinary steel bar - nothing special except the price was right.They dont wobble, warp or othervise react to being used as planingforms. ad 2 flattening and mirrorfinish: If the surfaces with the grove are rightalongside each other, don't bother with filing. You dont use the surface,only the groove. Sorry, wrong, You use the surface when the plane nicksit. Clamp the two pieces with the approbiat number of clamps, measurethe "grooved in spe" surface and if OK, forget all that filing stuff, itsjust a waste of time. Steel bar is pretty accurate in dimensions whenfabricated, so there is no reason to make that nice shiny finish exceptthat it looks impressing. As long as the upper surface is straight and thegroove is centered, the rest is manicure. Rods are being made, succesfully, in forms made of wood, and I for surehaven+t heard of anyone varnishing the surface of a wooden planingformin order to have a mirror finish. Why should You bother with making amirrorfinish on a steel form, then? just my 2 cents - and expirience. regards, carsten from zimmer@adams.net Wed Sep 27 06:14:41 2000 e8RBEfG18647 0000 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: grooving forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0284A.C1D18A80 I noticed a reference to grooving forms in Robert Kope's post that =referred to the "thread-cutting" method ..Can anyone provide an =explanation of this method? I can't forsee much problem with flattening =the forms (other than just grunt labor), but I approach the grooving =with trepidation!! thanks a lot...Randy Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0284A.C1D18A80 I noticed a reference to grooving forms in Robert = that referred to the "thread-cutting" method ..Can anyone provide an = of this method? I can't forsee much problem with flattening the forms = than just grunt labor), but I approach the grooving with trepidation!! = lot...Randy Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0284A.C1D18A80-- from mep@mint.net Wed Sep 27 06:41:25 2000 e8RBfPG19110 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:41:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Grinding wheels Having been down this road my 2 cents is that the device for holdingyour work at the precise angle you want and not the grinder is what isthe most important part of this set up. I never found a satisfactory setup and abandoned my grinder to a friend. Mike from zimmer@adams.net Wed Sep 27 07:59:17 2000 e8RCxGG20284 0000 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: To Bradley Love This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C02859.5FBA0200 Thanks Brad...sounds better than trying to file down to spec. Yes, I =would appreciate a photo of your setup...might make it all clearer to =me,I think I understand, though. Thanks, Randy ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C02859.5FBA0200 Thanks Brad...sounds better than trying to file down= Yes, I would appreciate a photo of your setup...might make it all = me,I think I understand, though. Thanks, =Randy ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C02859.5FBA0200-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Sep 27 10:00:14 2000 e8RF0DG26005 ;Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:00:05 +0200 Subject: Sv: Flattening forms e8RF0EG26006 Peter Up to a point, I agree with what you say, but..... The thermal and stress deformation characteristics of wood as a materialisvery different from that of metal, and in such a way as to be lessdisturbing to the planer of bamboo. I'm sorry to say I completely disagree with You on that. Wood warps etc.according to humidity changes in the air - steel does not. Just think of ourbamboo rods and how we strive to make them "airtight" with varnish,tung oil, impregnation etc. All of this to keep moisture out, moisturecoming from both fishing and from the air when rods are not used.Except for rust climatic changes does not affect steel, not in anywayto an extend where accuracy of planing is disturbed. It seems to me that only by having a reasonably smooth and bright surfaceonthe steel can you set the forms in the first place , or assess and correctany problems which arise. The word reasonable needs a definition. Mine is that steel bought fromnew in bars have that reasonable smoothnes. As for the bright surface,we are talking perhaps as little as 1/10000 of an inch as the difference from "peak to valley" on the surface of ordinary steel bought in bars.Even if more difference in height, You still dont "use" the valleys inthe surface, only the peaks which are the ones touched by the soleof the plane. advice received from Larry and others, and the corrections do seem to beworking well; though I expect that the biggest step forward will come whenthe bars are finally dowelled. If nothing else, smoothness and stabilitywould seem to be a big step in eliminating random inaccuracies. Stability is the keyword, one has to be very accurate when boring, reamingetc. to make a planingform. This is the part of the process, where thingsgo wrong when making a planingform. Usually due to the lack of professionaltools, skillness in using them and not enough patience. Example: reaming theholes adjusted. Same thing when thread making. regards,carsten from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Sep 27 10:10:58 2000 e8RFAvG26598 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:10:53 -0400 petermckean Subject: RE: Flattening forms e8RFAwG26599 If you use a reasonably stable wood, e.g. rock maple, and split a plank soyou are making both sides of the form out of wood that has consistent grainand stress patterns, this isn't a problem. You're not going to get all thatmuch movement from humidity changes in a piece of wood the size of aplaningform component- negligible across an inch or so of width - no matter whatyou do, and whatever swelling/shrinking you see will be pretty much the same deformation, it shouldn't be a problem. There's that story in the Garrisonbook about a workman taking his forms and using them to pry a rock in thebasement. The form was bent, but Garrison went ahead and used it as ifnothing had happened. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:03 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Sv: Flattening forms The thermal and stress deformation characteristics of wood as amaterialisvery different from that of metal, and in such a way as to be lessdisturbing to the planer of bamboo. I'm sorry to say I completely disagree with You on that. Wood warps etc.according to humidity changes in the air - steel does not. from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Wed Sep 27 11:24:28 2000 e8RGORG29469 Subject: adding tapers to the archives Hey mike biondo the list guy,I have half a dozen or so paul young tapers that I would like to add to thearchives (especially with all of the interest lately).How do I do it? They have all been mic'd from young originals, from the collection of myfriend mac seaholm. Chris o from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Sep 27 11:33:37 2000 e8RGXaG00055 JAA17224 (5.5.2650.21) petermckean ,"'SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us'" Subject: RE: Flattening forms e8RGXbG00056 in the garrison tape it shows him using the forms with a little block of woodat one end to stabilize the form. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 8:12 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: RE: Flattening forms If you use a reasonably stable wood, e.g. rock maple, and split a plank soyou are making both sides of the form out of wood that has consistentgrainand stress patterns, this isn't a problem. You're not going to get all thatmuch movement from humidity changes in a piece of wood the size of aplaningform component- negligible across an inch or so of width - no matter whatyou do, and whatever swelling/shrinking you see will be pretty much thesame samedeformation, it shouldn't be a problem. There's that story in the Garrisonbook about a workman taking his forms and using them to pry a rock in thebasement. The form was bent, but Garrison went ahead and used it as ifnothing had happened. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:03 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Sv: Flattening forms The thermal and stress deformation characteristics of wood as amaterialisvery different from that of metal, and in such a way as to be lessdisturbing to the planer of bamboo. I'm sorry to say I completely disagree with You on that. Wood warps etc.according to humidity changes in the air - steel does not. from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Wed Sep 27 11:57:07 2000 e8RGv7G01237 Subject: Re: adding tapers to the archives Chris seez... I have half a dozen or so paul young tapers that I would like to add to thearchives (especially with all of the interest lately).How do I do it? They have all been mic'd from young originals, from the collection of myfriend mac seaholm. Great!!! Jerry Foster (jfoster@gte.net ) is the keeper of the archives. Forwarding them to him is the best bet. You could also post them to the list, and copy Jerry. Mike- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Sep 27 14:10:10 2000 e8RJA9G05780 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:10:04 +0200 Subject: Sv: Flattening forms e8RJAAG05781 I use wooden forms as well and agree completely.More the reason so to abandon all the filing etc. onsteel forms. Lets not make this more complicatedthan it is (which it is not) regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Flattening forms If you use a reasonably stable wood, e.g. rock maple, and split a plank soyou are making both sides of the form out of wood that has consistentgrainand stress patterns, this isn't a problem. You're not going to get all thatmuch movement from humidity changes in a piece of wood the size of aplaningform component- negligible across an inch or so of width - no matter whatyou do, and whatever swelling/shrinking you see will be pretty much thesame samedeformation, it shouldn't be a problem. There's that story in the Garrisonbook about a workman taking his forms and using them to pry a rock in thebasement. The form was bent, but Garrison went ahead and used it as ifnothing had happened. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:03 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Sv: Flattening forms The thermal and stress deformation characteristics of wood as amaterialisvery different from that of metal, and in such a way as to be lessdisturbing to the planer of bamboo. I'm sorry to say I completely disagree with You on that. Wood warps etc.according to humidity changes in the air - steel does not. from earsdws@duke.edu Wed Sep 27 14:16:57 2000 e8RJGtG06109 PAA14190; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories Subject: time to drool. The new Lee Valley catalog just hit my desk. It has, on the back cover,a new "Veritas power Sharpening System." It has a jig to hold theknife blade at fixed angles of 15 -45* (5* increments and will do 1* that available abrasives are currently limited to 1200X, but says othersmay be attached with spray adhesives. Says you can use a felt or clothwheel. No financial interests, just passing on the word, dws. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Sep 27 14:53:05 2000 e8RJr4G07761 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:52:56 -0400 "'cmj@post11.tele.dk'" ,petermckean,Seth Steinzor Subject: RE: Flattening forms e8RJr5G07762 That's interesting. You could probably calculate the distance the formslifted away from the sole of the plane, if you knew the amount of concavityof the forms. from what I've read about Garrison, I wouldn't be surprisedif he did! I sometimes wonder if we don't get a little too carried awaywith all this precision stuff - from the grand height of my experience ofhaving built two rods :-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 12:33 PM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: RE: Flattening forms in the garrison tape it shows him using the forms with a little block ofwood at one end to stabilize the form. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 8:12 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: RE: Flattening forms If you use a reasonably stable wood, e.g. rock maple, and split a planksoyou are making both sides of the form out of wood that has consistentgrainand stress patterns, this isn't a problem. You're not going to get allthatmuch movement from humidity changes in a piece of wood the size of aplaningform component- negligible across an inch or so of width - no matterwhatyou do, and whatever swelling/shrinking you see will be pretty much thesame samedeformation, it shouldn't be a problem. There's that story in theGarrisonbook about a workman taking his forms and using them to pry a rock inthebasement. The form was bent, but Garrison went ahead and used it as ifnothing had happened. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:03 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Sv: Flattening forms The thermal and stress deformation characteristics of wood as amaterialisvery different from that of metal, and in such a way as to be lessdisturbing to the planer of bamboo. I'm sorry to say I completely disagree with You on that. Wood warpsetc.according to humidity changes in the air - steel does not. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Sep 27 15:24:45 2000 e8RKOiG09426 +0100 Subject: Hardy Jock Scot Taper Does anyone on the list know anyone who has one of these rods and if sowould you consider contacting me off the list with their contactdetails....many thanks......Paul( still searching for that ever elusivetaper ! ) from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Sep 27 15:29:41 2000 e8RKTeG09734 +0100 Subject: Hardy 'Farcast ' taper Has anyone on the list a taper for the 5'6" Hardy Farcast crank handledbait casting rod.......originaly produced as a companion rod for theHardy Elarex Multiplier ?......thanks ....Paul from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Sep 27 15:47:31 2000 e8RKlUG10807 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Group Cork Order#3 I'm putting together another group order as I've been getting severalrequests for more. I think I recommend that we stick with the better qualitycork grades. Either the Flor+ or the 5 Star. The Extra Select cork is a verygood value, but most of the listers prefer the top grades. If there issufficient demand on any of the grades, I'll be happy to supply the rings. Minimum order this time will be 200 rings. Contact me off list for pricingand detail. This order will be placed 10/2, so please do not hesitate if youwant to get in on this round. The next shipment of cork arrives next week sothat's why we need to get our order in right away or else we have to wait atleast 30 days. Regards, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from jojo@ipa.net Wed Sep 27 17:21:41 2000 e8RMLeG14605 Subject: Re: Ammonia toning You want tannins? Soak a jar full of acorns with water, using just enoughwater to cover the acorns. Don't use white oak acorns as they are thelowestin tannic acid. Keep the first wash water. This will have the most tannicacid. As a side benefit, you can again soak the acorns, several times, untilyou have no off coloring of the water. Crack the acorns, take the meat andbake it in an oven. The roasted meat can then be eaten whole, or ground to aflour. For eating, white oak acorns are best. Ask any deer. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ammonia toning Fuming, which is what the ammonia treatment is called in furniturefinishing, has the most impact on wood with high levels of tannic aid.Oakis most commonly fumed with dramatic results while cherry is more subtleandfuming maple has very little effect. The tea bath will leave tannic acidonthe cane which the ammonia (a base) reacts with. PAul ----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 9:35 PMSubject: Ammonia toning I'm still researching how to tone the two strip Quad I'm building. I'mbuilding it nodeless and thinking of using Ammonia to tone the strips.Someone mentioned that using swabbing withtannin (tea) before exposing the strips to Ammonia fumes gives betterbrowning. Anybody familiar with this? from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Sep 27 17:39:02 2000 e8RMd1G15350 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 04:56:48 -0500 Subject: Re: adding tapers to the archives Gee Chris I hope you do get them listed. You don't possibly have the 8.5'Texas General do you ? It's an #8 weight. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Sep 27 17:49:24 2000 e8RMnMG15731 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 05:07:04 -0500 Subject: Re: adding tapers to the archives Please do that Chris ! GMA from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Sep 27 18:01:39 2000 e8RN1cG16203 Subject: Re: time to drool. All, Check out their web site. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: time to drool. The new Lee Valley catalog just hit my desk. It has, on the back cover,a new "Veritas power Sharpening System." It has a jig to hold theknife blade at fixed angles of 15 -45* (5* increments and will do 1* that available abrasives are currently limited to 1200X, but says othersmay be attached with spray adhesives. Says you can use a felt or clothwheel. No financial interests, just passing on the word, dws. from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Wed Sep 27 19:22:36 2000 e8S0MZG17865 Subject: FW: adding tapers to the archives -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: adding tapers to the archives Unfortunately my collection does not include the texas general. I do havethe bob doerr (9ft 9wt) and the para 17 (8'6" 8wt). I have an 8ft 8wt parabolic that I developed called the steelhead special,which my buddy mac swears feels just like a lighter version of the para 17.You're welcome to it if you want it. Let me know. The other tapers I'm gonna include include the midge, perfectionist, driggs,princess, brightwater, martha marie, brightwater, and the encampment rod(also called the boat rod), and I think I have orginal measurements for thepara 14 and para 15. I have the todd young smidgen as well, though some would argue it's atravesty to call it a young rod (I haven't ever cast the rod so I have noopinion). Chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:44 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: adding tapers to the archives Gee Chris I hope you do get them listed. You don't possibly have the8.5'Texas General do you ? It's an #8 weight. GMA from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Sep 28 04:39:44 2000 e8S9dfG01863 Subject: Re: Flattening forms Organization: vet Frank In this part of the world, I find, the files are by Nicholson, and arecalled "Dreadnought" files. Thanks for your help. hey surely do shift metal! Peter petermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Flattening forms Peter, Yes, the Vixen is a file with curved teeth like in ((((((((. Theteeth span the whole width of the file. Vixen is a manufacturer offiles like this which are or were used in auto body shops backwhen body repairs were made with "white lead". Anyway this is whatI was told. Nicholson makes this style of file also. They mightnot be known as "Vixen" files in your corner of the globe, I don'tknow. The thing is just magic for taking off a lot of metal per stroke,across the top of your forms. It seems like I can do a better jobwith a Vixen, but maybe thats because I seem to be making progresswith each stroke. My homemade forms are no high example of the metalworkers art.Someday I will buy better ones. The old jokes are the best.--Frank On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, petermckean wrote: Hi Frank Could you please elaborate a little on the Vixen. What sort of thing amIlooking for here. A week ago, Danny Twang sent a diagran of a file withserrations which he represented this way (((((((((((. Is that the sortoffile you are talking about? If you have been following the discussion, you will know that I amhaving aspot of trouble with the accuracy of my forms; and that speakingpersonally,I feel that anyone who thinks he can draw file a set of forms toflatness inan evening or two is (a) hallucinating, or (b) possessed of a betterfilethan the Mill Bastard Nicholson that I have come to know and love. Idon'tknow why they are called "bastards" but I have my suspicions! A bit like the old Army joke about the sergeant-major asking the platoon"Who called the cook a bastard?" and the voice from the ranks saying"Whocalled the bastard a cook?" Hope you are not offended by either the crude nature of the joke, norinsulted by its age. Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Stetzer" Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:41 AMSubject: Re: Flattening forms James, The Vixen file is a wonderful tool for this job. If you can't finda genuine Vixen, Nicholson makes an equivalent which can be foundin some larger hardware stores. It will probably cost about as much as your steel but its worthevery penny. Its existence is one of the valuable things I learned from this list.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Sep 28 04:49:16 2000 e8S9nEG02102 Subject: Re: Flattening forms Organization: vet Carsten Yep, point taken! However, I did use the term "different" very deliberately,and did not mean to suggest that the wooden forms were inert. However, Ibelieve that they are, as I said, relatively inert to thermal change, and inthe place where I make my rods, that s the big one. As far as stressing the wooden forms goes, I made mine according to Tony'sdirections, and the "barrel bolt" adjustment means that very little stressis placed on the forms at setting - especially when compared with thestresses involved in setting the stations in steel forms with hex-head keys.I believe that this leads to less twisting deformation. I can see your point about the "bright" vs "non-bright" surface, though. All the best, Peterpetermckean@netspace.net.au "What is most emphatic in angling is made so by the long silences..."Thomas McGuane ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sv: Flattening forms Peter Up to a point, I agree with what you say, but..... The thermal and stress deformation characteristics of wood as amaterialisvery different from that of metal, and in such a way as to be lessdisturbing to the planer of bamboo. I'm sorry to say I completely disagree with You on that. Wood warps etc.according to humidity changes in the air - steel does not. Just think ofourbamboo rods and how we strive to make them "airtight" with varnish,tung oil, impregnation etc. All of this to keep moisture out, moisturecoming from both fishing and from the air when rods are not used.Except for rust climatic changes does not affect steel, not in anywayto an extend where accuracy of planing is disturbed. It seems to me that only by having a reasonably smooth and brightsurface onthe steel can you set the forms in the first place , or assess andcorrectany problems which arise. The word reasonable needs a definition. Mine is that steel bought fromnew in bars have that reasonable smoothnes. As for the bright surface,we are talking perhaps as little as 1/10000 of an inch as the difference from "peak to valley" on the surface of ordinary steel bought in bars.Even if more difference in height, You still dont "use" the valleys inthe surface, only the peaks which are the ones touched by the soleof the plane. advice received from Larry and others, and the corrections do seem tobeworking well; though I expect that the biggest step forward will comewhenthe bars are finally dowelled. If nothing else, smoothness and stabilitywould seem to be a big step in eliminating random inaccuracies. Stability is the keyword, one has to be very accurate when boring, reamingetc. to make a planingform. This is the part of the process, where thingsgo wrong when making a planingform. Usually due to the lack ofprofessionaltools, skillness in using them and not enough patience. Example: reamingthe holes whenadjusted. Same thing when thread making. regards,carsten from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Sep 28 12:04:50 2000 e8SH4nG13336 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Test, please delete You know, I said I would never do this. Excuse the trouble, but I thinkmy silicon pile is acting a little screwy. May have to do with theoperator. Sorry,Harry from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Sep 28 14:53:19 2000 e8SJrAG19413 Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:52:20 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church "Bamboo Rodmakers (onelist)" ,Bill Battles ,"Flyfish @ mailing list" Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Update Friends,First, let me apologize to any of you who receive this more thanonce. I'm sorry for any inconvenience. Now, down to business. The Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000http://www.curro.net/srg99/ is coming together well. We begin Thursdaynight October 26 and run through the afternoon of Saturday October 28.We meet at Fulton's Lodge on the White River a few miles outsideMountain Home, Arkansas. A non-refundable registration fee of $25 perperson can be sent to Mike Biondo; 9622 Mansfield Drive; St. Louis, MO63132. We really need to know if you're going to attend so that we canorder enough food for everyone. So PLEASE send your registration fee.If you're still "iffy" drop me an email so that we can plan for you. We will not limit the attendance in any way, but the last thing we want todo is run out of food. Most of our meals will be catered, but we'rethinking about asking some of the attendees to whip up some of their own specialties. Let's hear your suggestions... Putting on an event this large requires LOTS of work. MikeBiondo, Rick Crenshaw, Dennis Higham, and Charlie Curro and I areworking to make this the best gathering ever. I appreciate all theirefforts. When you sign-in, please put your name in one or more of theslots for volunteers. We'll need folks to help with everything fromwashing dishes to emptying trash to making ice and drink runs. Our 2nd Annual Silent Auction looks like another great event.We have already received several items, including some wonderfulfly-tying stuff from Conranch Hackle. REC Components, Venneri ReelSeats, and others have promised goodies as well. Also, REC has offeredus a BIG discount on a group order put together at the Gathering. Iknow I'll be ordering some stuff from them -- how 'bout you?Though it's not a requirement, we ask everyone attending tobring something for the auction. Try to make it personal, whether it'sa few favorite flies or a Paul H. Young Midge rod. Who knows -- I'vegot an old, old Leonard Rod I might, just might, slip into the SilentAuction.... (that ought to draw some interest!) Saturday afternoon from 1-3 will feature a special Buy-Sell-Swap time. Though we won't officially have any vendors tables this year,there will be some folks present with stuff for sale. We'll try tolimit commercial activites to the Saturday afternoon time, but no onewill complain if someone sells a thing or two out of the back of theirSUV. Don't forget to bring your fishing gear. Thursday night DaleFulton, of Blue Ribbon Flies, will share his thoughts with us on fishing the White River area. We'll have time to fish a little on Friday andSaturday mornings. Dale's presentation alone is enough to make the trip worthwhile. Friday and Saturday programs include: Harold Demarest - BambooBob Nunley - splitting caneBill Lamberson - Morgan Hand MillJohn Zimny - finishingMorten Lovstad - innovative techniquesAl Medved - rattan handles, bevelersCary Chan - BambooDennis Crocket - Gear motor binder----- And of course, the Cosmic Cast-off, version 2!! We'll hold our annual beginners two-day (well, two half-day)workshop -- let me know who's interested in that so we there will beenough tools for everyone to use. More to come, like a Sharpening -Edge Holding Roundtable and a group-discussion type seminar on the in'sand out's of selling rods. If you have other program suggestions let me know. We still have a little room on the agenda. One more thing - caps. We're making 50 nice caps with the SRG2000 logo on them. The caps are first come-first served, so if youhaven't let me know you want one, this is your chance before they aregone. Thanks for sticking with me to the end. I'll be surprised if we have less than 75-100 rodmakers and afficionados present this year. Let me know if I can help you with, lodging, directions, or anything else. Yours,Harry Boyd (hboyd@fbcwin.com)(318)435-4359 days435-2278 home --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu Sep 28 17:43:21 2000 e8SMhJG25872 Subject: Label Building Program This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0296B.D7616E20 What's the consensus on the best PC program for building labels, etc. - =not necessarily just for rods but maybe rod tubes and letter heads, =business cards and all the rest. I've been looking over PrintShop 11 =Deluxe @ $50. Anybody got any experience with this software? ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0296B.D7616E20 Good Day All, What's the consensus on the best PC = and letter heads, business cards and all the rest. I've been looking = software? Thanks, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0296B.D7616E20-- from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Sep 28 18:46:01 2000 e8SNk1G27441 Subject: Re: Label Building Program This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C02985.76CB5480 I have Print Shop Premier 5.0 and Presswriter 1.5. The Premier part of itdoes labels. I have been happy with it. It does everything that I need andis easy to use. John K. ----- Original Message -----From: Jim & Sallyann Freeman Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:47 PMSubject: Label Building Program Good Day All, What's the consensus on the best PC program for building labels, etc. -not necessarily just for rods but maybe rod tubes and letter heads, businesscards and all the rest. I've been looking over PrintShop 11 Deluxe @ $50.Anybody got any experience with this software? Thanks,Jim ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C02985.76CB5480 I have Print Shop Premier 5.0 and Presswriter 1.5. = everything that I need and is easy to use. John K. ----- Original Message ----- Sallyann Freeman Sent: Thursday, September 28, = PMSubject: Label Building =Program Good Day All, What's the consensus on the best PC= and letter heads, business cards and all the rest. I've been looking = software? Thanks, Jim = ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C02985.76CB5480-- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Sep 28 21:29:44 2000 e8T2TiG00874 Subject: Guide spacing? Does anyone have a favorite guide spacing chart they would like to share TIA, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Sep 28 21:59:14 2000 e8T2xDG01655 Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:52:01 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church "Flyfish @ mailing list" ,"Bamboo Rodmakers (onelist)" ,Bill Battles Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000 Update Friends,First, let me apologize to any of you who receive this more thanonce. I'm sorry for any inconvenience. Now, down to business. The Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000http://www.curro.net/srg99/ is coming together well. We begin Thursdaynight October 26 and run through the afternoon of Saturday October 28.We meet at Fulton's Lodge on the White River a few miles outsideMountain Home, Arkansas. A non-refundable registration fee of $25 perperson can be sent to Mike Biondo; 9622 Mansfield Drive; St. Louis, MO63132. We really need to know if you're going to attend so that we canorder enough food for everyone. So PLEASE send your registration fee.If you're still "iffy" drop me an email so that we can plan for you. Wewill not limit the attendance in any way, but the last thing we want todo is run out of food. Most of our meals will be catered, but we'rethinking about asking some of the attendees to whip up some of their ownspecialties. Let's hear your suggestions... Putting on an event this large requires LOTS of work. MikeBiondo, Rick Crenshaw, Dennis Higham, and Charlie Curro and I areworking to make this the best gathering ever. I appreciate all theirefforts. When you sign-in, please put your name in one or more of theslots for volunteers. We'll need folks to help with everything fromwashing dishes to emptying trash to making ice and drink runs. Our 2nd Annual Silent Auction looks like another great event.We have already received several items, including some wonderfulfly-tying stuff from Conranch Hackle. REC Components, Venneri ReelSeats, and others have promised goodies as well. Also, REC has offeredus a BIG discount on a group order put together at the Gathering. Iknow I'll be ordering some stuff from them -- how 'bout you?Though it's not a requirement, we ask everyone attending tobring something for the auction. Try to make it personal, whether it'sa few favorite flies or a Paul H. Young Midge rod. Who knows -- I'vegot an old, old Leonard Rod I might, just might, slip into the SilentAuction.... (that ought to draw some interest!) Saturday afternoon from 1-3 will feature a special Buy-Sell-Swaptime. Though we won't officially have any vendors tables this year,there will be some folks present with stuff for sale. We'll try tolimit commercial activites to the Saturday afternoon time, but no onewill complain if someone sells a thing or two out of the back of theirSUV. Don't forget to bring your fishing gear. Thursday night DaleFulton, of Blue Ribbon Flies, will share his thoughts with us on fishingthe White River area. We'll have time to fish a little on Friday andSaturday mornings. Dale's presentation alone is enough to make the tripworthwhile. Friday and Saturday programs include: Harold Demarest - BambooBob Nunley - splitting caneBill Lamberson - Morgan Hand MillJohn Zimny - finishingMorten Lovstad - innovative techniquesAl Medved - rattan handles, bevelersCary Chan - BambooDennis Crocket - Gear motor binder----- And of course, the Cosmic Cast-off, version 2!! We'll hold our annual beginners two-day (well, two half-day)workshop -- let me know who's interested in that so we there will beenough tools for everyone to use. More to come, like a Sharpening -Edge Holding Roundtable and a group-discussion type seminar on the in'sand out's of selling rods. If you have other program suggestions let meknow. We still have a little room on the agenda. One more thing - caps. We're making 50 nice caps with the SRG2000 logo on them. The caps are first come-first served, so if youhaven't let me know you want one, this is your chance before they aregone. Thanks for sticking with me to the end. I'll be surprised if wehave less than 75-100 rodmakers and afficionados present this year. Letme know if I can help you with, lodging, directions, or anything else. Yours,Harry Boyd (hboyd@fbcwin.com)(318)435-4359 days435-2278 home --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Sep 28 23:02:51 2000 e8T42oG03074 Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:02:43 -0700 "Flyfish @ mailing list" Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000 Update Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,First, let me apologize to any of you who receive this more thanonce. I'm sorry for any inconvenience. Man am I glad I put this first sentence in there. I sent this message thismorning, and it bounced around in cyberspace for hours. So I sent itagain. Now it hits the lists again. Sorry, really,Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Sep 29 13:10:33 2000 e8TIAUG26979 Subject: Flattening Forms Revisited Well, thanks for all the advise, I went ahead and bought the steel inquestion, still not sure what it is, probably hot rolled, but I think itwill do and it was dirt cheap so almost no materials risk. Haven'tfound the vixen file yet, but still got a couple of local sources tocheck before I hit the mail order places. I've gotten some great adviceboth on and off list about the form making process but had a couple morequestions. 1. Several people recommended fixing the file to a block of wood forfaster, easier planing. This makes sense to me. For those who've usedthe vixen file, would you still do that? 2. I've got a couple of japanese water stones that don't get used muchanymore (I Scary Sharpen almost everything). Would it be worthwhile touse the stones to put a really fine finish on the working surfaces ofthe forms? I figure this would add a couple hours to the job, but willit add anything at all to the final functionality of the forms? 3. My local hardware stores all seem to carry nothing but VermontAmerican tapping tools. I recall reading somewhere to avoid these.They are conveniently available to me, seem to be priced right, and aresold in kits with the appropriate drill bit and tap together. Should Iuse these, or keep looking for a better brand? If so, what brand? TIA for sharing your wisdom. I suspect I'll be a drawfiling fool mostof the weekend. from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Fri Sep 29 16:23:02 2000 e8TLN1G02888 Subject: PHY tapers Here goes: Bob doerr 9 ft 9wt tip .092 .108 .134 145 174 192207 220 244 250 264 26517/64 ferrule Butt 266 272 282 302 312326 338 360 367 368 370 370 Midge 6'3" 4wt tip 066 082 100 110 130 146160 172 18412/64 ferrule Butt 190 196 206 218 234 240248 248 248 Driggs 7'2" 5wt tip 075 098 108 124 136 146166 196 196 19813/64 ferrule Butt 201 203 215 225 240 260260 270 275 278 martha marie7'6" 6wt tip 068 093 116 133 149165 182 198 215 21814/64 ferrule butt 218 231 244 257 270 283296 303 303 303 perfectionist7'6" 4wt14/64 ferrule tip 066 090 106 116 132 142158 184 202 218butt 218 224 230 244 250 264274 278 284 288 brightwater7'6" 4wt14/64 ferrule tip 066 090 106 116 132 142158 184 202 214butt 218 224 230 244 246 260268 270 274 276 para 15 8' 6wt dry tip 079 097 124 133 154 168190 212 229 23915/64 ferrule wet tip 078 094 112 128 141164 195 208 225 239butt 240 242 255 260 274 277294 300 300 300 para 17 8'6" 9wt THESE MEASUREMENTS ARE OVER VARNISH17/64 ferruletip 095 114 142 155 173202 222 236 248 260 268butt 275 277 286 298 310323 327 336 340 342 342 para 14 7'9" 5wt 14/64 ferrule tip 074 092 100 123 141 151168 184 198 butt 198 218 224 243 247272 274 285 285 alright, folks, that's all I've got. I can't find the page for the boat rod (encampment rod) in my file. I hopeI haven't lost it somewhere. If someone else has it, please post it.Thanks. Chris o from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Sep 29 17:02:19 2000 e8TM2IG04160 Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:02:21 -0500 Subject: Re: PHY tapers Thanks Chris, Didn't you say you had the Texas General too ? I sure would like to get thatone too ! Thanks again, GMA from bob@downandacross.com Fri Sep 29 17:03:38 2000 e8TM3cG04270 Subject: Re: PHY tapers --=====================_5413492==_.ALT Thanks Chris. Here's the boat rod taper:Paul Young Boat Rod - 8ft 6wt (2pc) PointDimensionForm SettingNotes00.07450.092100.116150.125200.143250.166300.189350.194400.207450.226500.236550.268600.280650.292700.307750.325800.341850.356860.356 Posted by Rob Hoffhines, Aug 18, 1988''A strong butted 8ft 6wt. Contrasts the para 15 nicely in the Young lineup.'' from an unvarnished rod. Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 8' (96 inches) Action Length: 7' 2" (86 inches)6 Weight 2 Piece Line Fished: 40 ftStandard ferrule Size 15/64; Rod Dim 14.87/64 @ 48 in Best Regards, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_5413492==_.ALT Thanks Chris. Here's the boat rod taper:Paul Young Boat Rod - 8ft 6wt (2pc) PointDimensionFormSettingNotes00.07450.092100.116150.125200.143250.166300.189350.194400.207450.226500.236550.268600.280650.292700.307750.325800.341850.356860.356 Posted by Rob Hoffhines, Aug 18, 1988 Young lineup.'' from an unvarnished rod. Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 8' (96 Length:7' 2" (86 inches) Standard 14.87/64@ 48 in Best Regards, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_5413492==_.ALT-- from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Fri Sep 29 17:04:38 2000 e8TM4cG04387 "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD",rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: PHY tapers Unfortunately, I don't have a file for the texas general, and I can't findthe boat rod taper anywhere (it's a fast 8ft 6 wt).If someone else has either, please post them.Thanks.Chris o -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 3:07 PM Cc: jfoster@gte.netSubject: Re: PHY tapers Thanks Chris, Didn't you say you had the Texas General too ? I sure would like toget thatone too ! Thanks again, GMA from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Sep 29 17:16:15 2000 e8TMGAG05017 Subject: Re: Flattening Forms Revisited Just returned from another shopping foray (I really have to get somework done sometime today, but, oh well). Still haven't found the vixenfile, but got some other goodies (a 60 degree lathe cutter and a starretcenter guage) and a great education in the local machinist supply shops.I now know where to find the grumpiest, surliest, least helpfulshopowner, the friendliest most helpful shop (which, unfortunately, isgeared toward large scale machining equipment and supplies butnonetheless took the time to dig up their last 60 deg center guage), thefunkiest used machine shop supply house (anyone need a used 6" dia. livecenter?) and the world's (or at least Idaho's) greatest selection ofbolts. This is fun!!! from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Sep 29 18:46:17 2000 e8TNkHG06859 Subject: Re: Flattening Forms Revisited 1. The people who advised you to attach the file to a block of wood may have been talking about the triangle file for cutting the groove, not the smoothing file. However, you can attach a 3/4" block to the end to help you stay level. 2. IMHO, finishing the forms to a high luster is a waste of time. If you get a smooth finish from the file, you will be fine. 3. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use the Vermont American tap. They are allbut guaranteed to fail. Get an ITT Greenleaf or equivilent from an industrial supply house. Get a can of tapping lubricant while you are at it. A broken tap stuck in the form will instantly erase any time saved by using the VA tap. Trust me. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Fri Sep 29 19:01:01 2000 e8U011G07229 Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:00:55 -0700 Sep 2000 00:00:55 GMT Subject: Re: Flattening Forms Revisited FILETIME=[8168E460:01C02A71] I agree with Tom on the broken tap. I am sure that is the brand I used and it broke in the form. I took it to a machine shop who was sure they could remove it. They did, and I ended up removing 10" off the end of the form from their botched repair job. My forms work great, plan on making a standard 6 foot set as soon as I get caught up on all the rods needing to be built. Rob Clarke From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: Flattening Forms RevisitedDate: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 19:45:50 EDT 1. The people who advised you to attach the file to a block of wood may havebeen talking about the triangle file for cutting the groove, not thesmoothing file. However, you can attach a 3/4" block to the end to help youstay level. 2. IMHO, finishing the forms to a high luster is a waste of time. If you geta smooth finish from the file, you will be fine. 3. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use the Vermont American tap. They are allbutguaranteed to fail. Get an ITT Greenleaf or equivilent from an industrialsupply house. Get a can of tapping lubricant while you are at it. A brokentap stuck in the form will instantly erase any time saved by using the VAtap. Trust me. _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from rmoon@ida.net Fri Sep 29 20:43:30 2000 e8U1hTG09294 0000 Subject: Re: Flattening Forms Revisited James where are the bolts if you don't mind tellingRalph from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri Sep 29 21:56:17 2000 e8U2uGG10623 Subject: Re: Flattening Forms Revisited Hi James, I also would advise you to stay away from Vermont American taps , they are way to brittle, and will break at the first chance they get. Where are you in Idaho? We're almost neighbors. I live in Kalispell, MT. Welcome aboard. I used a file from My local NAPA parts store for my forms, worked just fine, Only cost about 10 bucks. But I would agree the vixen file would likely be a bit faster. Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sat Sep 30 00:50:51 2000 e8U5ojG13442 +1100 Subject: Binder parts Hello: I am contemplating making a binder along the lines of the BobMilward model in Best of the Planing Form. I ask if any list membercould recommend a mail order house that sells: 5 1/4" or 6" binding head pulleys 6 1/4" ball bearing clothes line pulley with handle2" pulleyGoodyear v-belt 3L 620thread tensioners Also, is the thread used obtained on spools, and if so what type and from where. I suppose the alternative is to hand spool from my existingsupply of glace cotton. Any help will be greatly appreciated! from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 30 07:59:22 2000 e8UCxLG17474 Sat, 30 Sep 2000 07:59:24 -0500 "nobler" Subject: Re: Binder parts Sean,McMaster-Carr has most all of these items, except possibly the belt. I'dthink they have an alternative tho' ! Many here say they have found largespools of the cotton thread at Wal-Mart, but I haven't looked yet. You mightalso find it at an upholstery shop. I think several on the Rodmaker's web site list this thread too. GMA from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Sep 30 10:57:59 2000 e8UFvxG20869 Sat, 30 Sep 2000 10:57:53 -0500 e8UFvo307249; Subject: Re: Binder parts Sean, (McMaster-Carr) with the hose-barbed splicers they sell. I turned woodenpulleys which made it easier to attach all the other parts. Use SScountersunk-finishing-washers to make the thread tensioners. I alsomountedthe spools and tensioners on the "outside" for easier access and fed thethread through a hole in the pulley to the tip-tops which are the only parts"inside". The skinny spools come with "quilting thread" (Mettler) which iswhat I recall Milward recommended. I had to order it through a sewing shop.It isn't cheap, but there are 164 yards on each spool.Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: Binder parts Hello: I am contemplating making a binder along the lines of the BobMilward model in Best of the Planing Form. I ask if any list membercould recommend a mail order house that sells: 5 1/4" or 6" binding head pulleys6 1/4" ball bearing clothes line pulley with handle2" pulleyGoodyear v-belt 3L 620thread tensioners Also, is the thread used obtained on spools, and if so what type and from where. I suppose the alternative is to hand spool from my existingsupply of glace cotton. Any help will be greatly appreciated! from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Sep 30 12:12:19 2000 e8UHCIG22049 10:12:27 PDT Subject: test it seems to have slowed to a stop the last three days.i know there is phone difficults in about sevenstates right now and @home is doing something screwy. i suspect at&t blocking my yahoo on purpose. timewill tell. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Sep 30 14:03:37 2000 e8UJ3bG23980 12:03:36 PDT Subject: Re: Binder parts thread tensioners can be purchased at hook and hackle.i think the web site is timothy --- nobler wrote:Sean,McMaster-Carr has most all of these items, exceptpossibly the belt. I'dthink they have an alternative tho' ! Many here saythey have found largespools of the cotton thread at Wal-Mart, but Ihaven't looked yet. You mightalso find it at an upholstery shop. I think several on the Rodmaker's web site list thisthread too. GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Sep 30 14:56:14 2000 e8UJuDG24827 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Group Cork Order #3 FINAL Chance We have some cork rings that are not reserved... 400 FIVE STAR 1/4" Rings400 FIVE STAR 1/2" Rings500 Flor+ 1/2" Rings500 Extra Select 1/2" Rings We need a few more people to fill out this order before I place it as Idon't want to inventory this many rings. I don't mind about 1,000 or lessbut 2,700 rings is a bit much in addition to my existing stock from theprevious group order. Any takers? Prices are about 40-50% below retail. Contact me off list asap if interested. Darrell Lee from sats@gte.net Sat Sep 30 18:28:19 2000 e8UNSIG28068 Subject: Lo Angle Plane modified, Anyone done that? The usual angle recommended for block planes is about 40 to 45 deg. (I'mkeepingin "ballpark" here, because this is a general, not specific, question) On a 91/2 this means you set the blade to about 20deg, the plane being set to22deg. However, on a low angle plane the plane bed is set to about 12 degrees. Hasanyone tried sharpening a blade to a 30deg angle? What was the result? I'm trying this now and so far, so good. Of course I've only used the plane onone strip. (Getting a good collection of "junk" for a replacement section on a 6 1/2 ftrodthat's a re-build.)----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat Sep 30 20:02:05 2000 e91124G29726 ;Sun, 1 Oct 2000 01:01:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified, Anyone done that? Hi Terry, I sharpen my blades to a 35Ÿ angle. On my 9 1/2 that works out to a 55Ÿworking cut. I also have a 60 1/2 on which I sharpen the blades to thesame angle, for a working cut of 47Ÿ. Generally, I find the more obtuseangles work better over the nodes (no lifting). If you're workingnodeless, I'd imagine it's not as critical. Good luck, Dennis Terry Kirkpatrick wrote: The usual angle recommended for block planes is about 40 to 45 deg. (I'mkeepingin "ballpark" here, because this is a general, not specific, question) On a 91/2 this means you set the blade to about 20deg, the plane being set to22deg. However, on a low angle plane the plane bed is set to about 12 degrees. Hasanyone tried sharpening a blade to a 30deg angle? What was the result? I'm trying this now and so far, so good. Of course I've only used the planeonone strip. (Getting a good collection of "junk" for a replacement section on a 6 1/2 ftrodthat's a re-build.)----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Sat Sep 30 20:22:35 2000 e911MUG00178 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... e911MZG00179 Hi Terry, I sharpen my blades to a 35Ÿ angle. On my 9 1/2 that works out to a 55Ÿworking cut. I also have a 60 1/2 on which I sharpen the blades to thesame angle, for a working cut of 47Ÿ. Generally, I find the more obtuseangles work better over the nodes (no lifting). If you're workingnodeless, I'd imagine it's not as critical. Ok, there's something I'm not getting here. Intuitively, it seems that a shallower angle of the cutting edge would slice through the cane better than a more obtuse angle, which seems to be almost scraper-like. Is the cane at the nodes "fragile" enough the the shallow-angled blade lifts or pulls out the fibers instead of slicing them cleanly, or is there something else at work here? Speaking of slicing with the plane...When I have planed wood, I notice that I get a much smoother and cleaner cut when the plane is "cocked" to one side a bit - say 10 or 15 degrees - instead of square with the wood. Just to be clear, the sole of the plane is still flat on the wood surface, but the nose of the plane is to one side, relative to the back end, so that the plane blade "slices" the wood as it is pushed against it, instead of scraping it up, so to speak. Do any of you plane the cane strips with the plane cocked to one side a bit, or do you always keep the blade at exact right angles to the cane strip? Claude from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Sep 30 20:32:55 2000 e911WsG00513 Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:33:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... That's the way I was taught to plane wood, many years ago, and it's alwaysworked well for me, i.e., at an angle to the work. I was reading something on the lower angles lifting out node areas easier,and the higher angle working more like a scraping action, not lifting thenodes nearly as easily. I believe their irons were done to an even higherangle than 35 deg. too. I hope some of you pros will come in on this ! GMA from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat Sep 30 21:04:06 2000 e91246G01150 ;Sun, 1 Oct 2000 02:04:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... Claude, I have tried it from both extremes. My experience is that the "higher"the angle to the work, the more scraper-like the action. A lower angletends to lift the irregular grain of the nodes, causing unpredictableresults in the cut. In other words... The lower angle blade is goingto get under the grain of the node more easily, thus lifting it off thestrip and causing a tear. The higher angled blade will not pull at thegrain as badly and the likelihood of a lift is less. If you still don't agree, try an experiment. Get ahold of another blade(I recommend a Hock, about $26.00 from Garrett Wade) and sharpen it to alarger angle (say 30 or 35Ÿ). Then try it on a test strip. I thinkyou'll see what I mean. Regards, Dennis Claude Freaner wrote: Hi Terry, I sharpen my blades to a 35Ÿ angle. On my 9 1/2 that works out to a 55Ÿworking cut. I also have a 60 1/2 on which I sharpen the blades to thesame angle, for a working cut of 47Ÿ. Generally, I find the more obtuseangles work better over the nodes (no lifting). If you're workingnodeless, I'd imagine it's not as critical. Ok, there's something I'm not getting here. Intuitively, it seemsthat a shallower angle of the cutting edge would slice through thecane better than a more obtuse angle, which seems to be almostscraper-like. Is the cane at the nodes "fragile" enough the theshallow-angled blade lifts or pulls out the fibers instead of slicingthem cleanly, or is there something else at work here? Speaking of slicing with the plane...When I have planed wood, Inotice that I get a much smoother and cleaner cut when the plane is"cocked" to one side a bit - say 10 or 15 degrees - instead of squarewith the wood. Just to be clear, the sole of the plane is still flaton the wood surface, but the nose of the plane is to one side,relative to the back end, so that the plane blade "slices" the woodas it is pushed against it, instead of scraping it up, so to speak. Do any of you plane the cane strips with the plane cocked to oneside a bit, or do you always keep the blade at exact right angles tothe cane strip? Claude from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat Sep 30 21:05:18 2000 e9125IG01259 ;Sun, 1 Oct 2000 02:05:12 +0000 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... George, You're absolutely right. But I learned it the hard way! Dennis nobler wrote: That's the way I was taught to plane wood, many years ago, and it's alwaysworked well for me, i.e., at an angle to the work. I was reading something on the lower angles lifting out node areas easier,and the higher angle working more like a scraping action, not lifting thenodes nearly as easily. I believe their irons were done to an even higherangle than 35 deg. too. I hope some of you pros will come in on this ! GMA from flyh20@sover.net Sat Sep 30 21:26:33 2000 e912QWG01744 Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net)sover.net from arc4a45.bf.sover.net [209.198.117.46]209.198.117.46 Subject: Re: Binder parts Don't know what other sources might be available but Anglers Workshop inWoodland WA has tensioners. Website is www.anglerworkshop.com, emailinfo@anglersworkshopo.com. Going through the catalog I didn't see it butI've bought them there and am sure they have them. They are inexpensive.The catalog has lots of other useful items. They may have the bindingthread as well.Barry Mayer, Bennington VT from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Sep 30 21:32:23 2000 e912WMG01960 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... Claude,I cock the plane till I get close to the finish cuts. Then I use the fullsole of the plane to help get a even flat cut. The more sole you have on thestrip the flatter it will end up. When I can't plane any further I finish thestrip with a single edge razor scraping down to the metal form the fulllength of the strip. My strips end up withen .001 of each other.It works for me.Tony FlyTyr @ southshore.com Claude Freaner wrote: Hi Terry, I sharpen my blades to a 35Ÿ angle. On my 9 1/2 that works out to a 55Ÿworking cut. I also have a 60 1/2 on which I sharpen the blades to thesame angle, for a working cut of 47Ÿ. Generally, I find the more obtuseangles work better over the nodes (no lifting). If you're workingnodeless, I'd imagine it's not as critical. Ok, there's something I'm not getting here. Intuitively, it seemsthat a shallower angle of the cutting edge would slice through thecane better than a more obtuse angle, which seems to be almostscraper-like. Is the cane at the nodes "fragile" enough the theshallow-angled blade lifts or pulls out the fibers instead of slicingthem cleanly, or is there something else at work here? Speaking of slicing with the plane...When I have planed wood, Inotice that I get a much smoother and cleaner cut when the plane is"cocked" to one side a bit - say 10 or 15 degrees - instead of squarewith the wood. Just to be clear, the sole of the plane is still flaton the wood surface, but the nose of the plane is to one side,relative to the back end, so that the plane blade "slices" the woodas it is pushed against it, instead of scraping it up, so to speak. Do any of you plane the cane strips with the plane cocked to oneside a bit, or do you always keep the blade at exact right angles tothe cane strip? Claude from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Sep 30 21:37:18 2000 e912bHG02119 Subject: Re: Binder parts I bought five in a sewing machine repair shop. They were used and were .50cents each. All were in good condition. You might try that.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Barry S. Mayer" wrote: Don't know what other sources might be available but Anglers Workshop inWoodland WA has tensioners. Website is www.anglerworkshop.com, emailinfo@anglersworkshopo.com. Going through the catalog I didn't see it butI've bought them there and am sure they have them. They are inexpensive.The catalog has lots of other useful items. They may have the bindingthread as well.Barry Mayer, Bennington VT from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat Sep 30 22:20:04 2000 e913K4G02916 ;Sun, 1 Oct 2000 03:19:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... Tony, I use the factory blades from my planes (the Stanleys, I don't have a LN212 yet) as scrapers. They work really well. You don't have to worryabout sharpness either. I just hold the blade in my hand and tilt itaccording to how much cane I want to remove. Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: Claude,I cock the plane till I get close to the finish cuts. Then I use the fullsole of the plane to help get a even flat cut. The more sole you have on thestrip the flatter it will end up. When I can't plane any further I finish thestrip with a single edge razor scraping down to the metal form the fulllength of the strip. My strips end up withen .001 of each other.It works for me.Tony FlyTyr @ southshore.com Claude Freaner wrote: Hi Terry, I sharpen my blades to a 35Ÿ angle. On my 9 1/2 that works out to a55Ÿworking cut. I also have a 60 1/2 on which I sharpen the blades to thesame angle, for a working cut of 47Ÿ. Generally, I find the more obtuseangles work better over the nodes (no lifting). If you're workingnodeless, I'd imagine it's not as critical. Ok, there's something I'm not getting here. Intuitively, it seemsthat a shallower angle of the cutting edge would slice through thecane better than a more obtuse angle, which seems to be almostscraper-like. Is the cane at the nodes "fragile" enough the theshallow-angled blade lifts or pulls out the fibers instead of slicingthem cleanly, or is there something else at work here? Speaking of slicing with the plane...When I have planed wood, Inotice that I get a much smoother and cleaner cut when the plane is"cocked" to one side a bit - say 10 or 15 degrees - instead of squarewith the wood. Just to be clear, the sole of the plane is still flaton the wood surface, but the nose of the plane is to one side,relative to the back end, so that the plane blade "slices" the woodas it is pushed against it, instead of scraping it up, so to speak. Do any of you plane the cane strips with the plane cocked to oneside a bit, or do you always keep the blade at exact right angles tothe cane strip? Claude from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat Sep 30 22:22:05 2000 e913M4G03048 ;Sun, 1 Oct 2000 03:21:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Binder parts Dale Clemens (sp??) in Allentown, PA has them. I think they get about$17.00 apiece though. Dennis Barry S. Mayer wrote: Don't know what other sources might be available but Anglers Workshop inWoodland WA has tensioners. Website is www.anglerworkshop.com, emailinfo@anglersworkshopo.com. Going through the catalog I didn't see it butI've bought them there and am sure they have them. They are inexpensive.The catalog has lots of other useful items. They may have the bindingthread as well.Barry Mayer, Bennington VT from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Sep 30 22:42:29 2000 e913gRG03589 Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:42:09 +0800 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... e913gTG03590 I intentionally sharpen my plane irons with a *very* slight offset, alwayshave. This way when the edge is set straight with the sole of the planewhen you look at the mouth you'll see a slight angle which I think assistswith the cut. from time to time I mention how a plane works but it's always worthrepeating because it may help some people understand how a plane cuts.Firstly, imagine you have a chisel. Lift the chisel just a little then makea cut & push it along whatever you're cutting.What will happen is the chisel will lift the wood or whatever and becauseit's only slightly lifted the material will lift in a long splinter. Makeanother cut but make the angle of attack of the chisel higher and thesplinter length will shorten. Of course you'll need to push harder to makethe chisel cut but that's what mallets are for. Keep raising the angle andsooner or later it'll be a scraper.If you keep messing about with angles you'll find one that while the woodstill splinters there is an angle that seems best.Now, put the chisel in a body that keeps the best angle of the chiselconstant, the body not only keeps the angle of attack constant but alsokeeps the edge parallel with the wood.Lets call this device a plane.Now because we're just hacking away here lets make the opening which allowsthe chips to pass really big and give it a go. You'd notice while you cannow really hog a lot of wood it's still lifting big splinters and no matterhow sharp the cutting edge it wont help make a clean cut. BUT if you reducethe depth of cut and narrow the mouth opening suddenly the work is nolonger tearing. Why?Because there is an exact relationship between the depth of the cut and themouth opening when it comes to fine work. When the edge cuts the wood, thewood still splinters but because it's a fine splinter and the mouth is setfine as soon as the splinter passes through the mouth it's wedged betweenthe cutting edge of the blade and the forward edge of the mouth whichbreaks the splinter or chip and curls it. If the depth of cut is set finebut the mouth is too wide the splinter goes further up the edge beforebreaking and so it tears along in front of the mouth and is uncontrolable.Set the mouth too narrow for the depth and the opening clogs.You can not only feel whan a plane is cutting well but hear it. The reason a higher angle is best for the nodes is because the "grain"doesn't follow any particular path and a slicing action would pick up anysection of the node that would be inclined to lift and tear though if thedepth of the cut is too deep it may just gouge bits out too. Block planes are designed to clean up end grain so are made with a shallowangle. This is because when cuting end grain you want a slicing actionbecause nothing is going to lift, the grain of the wood being at rightangles to the edge, that's why the 60 1/2 is the best for end grain. Adifferent set of needs to what we're doing with planing bamboo which is whythese planes while handy aren't exactly perfect for the task. Tony At 09:21 PM 9/30/00 -0400, Claude Freaner wrote:Hi Terry, I sharpen my blades to a 35Ÿ angle. On my 9 1/2 that works out to a 55Ÿworking cut. I also have a 60 1/2 on which I sharpen the blades to thesame angle, for a working cut of 47Ÿ. Generally, I find the more obtuseangles work better over the nodes (no lifting). If you're workingnodeless, I'd imagine it's not as critical. Ok, there's something I'm not getting here. Intuitively, it seems that a shallower angle of the cutting edge would slice through the cane better than a more obtuse angle, which seems to be almost scraper-like. Is the cane at the nodes "fragile" enough the the shallow-angled blade lifts or pulls out the fibers instead of slicing them cleanly, or is there something else at work here? Speaking of slicing with the plane...When I have planed wood, I notice that I get a much smoother and cleaner cut when the plane is "cocked" to one side a bit - say 10 or 15 degrees - instead of square with the wood. Just to be clear, the sole of the plane is still flat on the wood surface, but the nose of the plane is to one side, relative to the back end, so that the plane blade "slices" the wood as it is pushed against it, instead of scraping it up, so to speak. Do any of you plane the cane strips with the plane cocked to one side a bit, or do you always keep the blade at exact right angles to the cane strip? Claude /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! 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