from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 00:17:09 2000 e915H8G05290 22:17:07 PDT Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified, Anyone done that? terry, i sharpen the blade in my 9 1/2 to 35* and sodo some others i know and some do45*. i believe 20*to be not enough. timothy --- Terry Kirkpatrick wrote:The usual angle recommended for block planes isabout 40 to 45 deg. (I'm keepingin "ballpark" here, because this is a general, notspecific, question) On a 91/2 this means you set the blade to about 20deg,the plane being set to 22deg. However, on a low angle plane the plane bed is setto about 12 degrees. Hasanyone tried sharpening a blade to a 30deg angle? What was the result? I'm trying this now and so far, so good. Of courseI've only used the plane onone strip. (Getting a good collection of "junk" for areplacement section on a 6 1/2 ft rodthat's a re-build.)----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Oct 1 04:32:19 2000 e919WGG08365 Subject: Off subject. Sorry about this but some of you may be interested.Just heard what will be in the Olympic closing cerimony in about 3 hrs. Notonly is there to be a fireworks display that will dwarf the Y2K one inSydney but there will be a couple of F1-11Cs fly UNDER the Sydney HarbourBridge, one will pass over the Olympic flame then go balistic with a fueldump to about 20,000 feet.Sounds like it would be something to see. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from richjez@enteract.com Sun Oct 1 07:41:27 2000 e91CfQG09889 Subject: Re: Off subject. --=====================_352551==_.ALT Tony,You didn't mention the drag queens. That may give a new meaning to down under. :-) Rich At 04:45 AM 10/1/00, Tony Young wrote:Sorry about this but some of you may be interested.Just heard what will be in the Olympic closing cerimony in about 3 hrs. Notonly is there to be a fireworks display that will dwarf the Y2K one inSydney but there will be a couple of F1-11Cs fly UNDER the Sydney HarbourBridge, one will pass over the Olympic flame then go balistic with a fueldump to about 20,000 feet.Sounds like it would be something to see. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>--=====================_352551==_.ALT Tony, down under. :-) Rich At 04:45 AM 10/1/00, Tony Young wrote:Sorry about this but some of you may beinterested.Just heard what will be in the Olympic closing cerimony in about 3 hrs.Notonly is there to be a fireworks display that will dwarf the Y2K oneinSydney but there will be a couple of F1-11Cs fly UNDER the SydneyHarbourBridge, one will pass over the Olympic flame then go balistic with afueldump to about 20,000 feet.Sounds like it would be something to see. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_352551==_.ALT-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Oct 1 07:51:57 2000 e91CpsG10085 Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:51:51 +0800 Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:51:48 +0800 Subject: Re: Off subject. Yeah...well, I remember there being some talk about them but they weren'tbigon my list of things to see.Damn disapointed about the F1-11 flybys. I guess you had to be there butfromwhat I saw could have been done using a Piper Cub with the pilot holding a ciglighter out the window. I had thought my source re. the jets was impecable.The fireworks wasn't bad though. Tony At 07:44 AM 10/1/00 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: Tony,You didn't mention the drag queens. That may give a new meaning to downunder. :-) Rich At 04:45 AM 10/1/00, Tony Young wrote: Sorry about this but some of you may be interested.Just heard what will be in the Olympic closing cerimony in about 3 hrs. Notonly is there to be a fireworks display that will dwarf the Y2K one inSydney but there will be a couple of F1-11Cs fly UNDER the SydneyHarbourBridge, one will pass over the Olympic flame then go balistic with a fueldump to about 20,000 feet.Sounds like it would be something to see. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @/||/____/||_________________________________________|| /\ ))):> > / \ ))):> /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Oct 1 08:36:55 2000 e91DatG11322 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... At 11:55 AM 10/1/00 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Block planes are designed to clean up end grain so are made with a shallowangle. This is because when cuting end grain you want a slicing actionbecause nothing is going to lift, the grain of the wood being at rightangles to the edge, that's why the 60 1/2 is the best for end grain. Adifferent set of needs to what we're doing with planing bamboo which is whythese planes while handy aren't exactly perfect for the task. Tony and standard planes (Lie-Nielson, Record & Stanley), see "AmericanWoodworker" Fall 2000 #83 p34; Buying a Block Plane. Their commentsreinforce Tony's excellent presentation with nice pictures and tables. -DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from dan_cooney@attglobal.net Sun Oct 1 08:54:28 2000 e91DsSG11773 +0000 Subject: Test - disregard Test from briansr@point-net.com Sun Oct 1 10:02:53 2000 e91F2qG12484 Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:02:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Off subject. Tony, ANY flyby by F111s is spectacular !!!!I had 2 do VERTICAL circuits (circuits are normally horizontal affairs topractice landings) to 6000 ft,at 360 knots.It was 10 minutes of neet flying.The authories processed 460 noise complaints before the end of the dayandmore during the next couple of days!!!The tapes were pulled and the onlything heard on them was me approving "Circuits for 10 minutes" and theleadpilots answer "roger!!"These days I'd probably get fined 300$ for eachpass a "letter "on my file an a 3 day suspention!!!!Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Off subject. Sorry about this but some of you may be interested.Just heard what will be in the Olympic closing cerimony in about 3 hrs.Notonly is there to be a fireworks display that will dwarf the Y2K one inSydney but there will be a couple of F1-11Cs fly UNDER the Sydney HarbourBridge, one will pass over the Olympic flame then go balistic with a fueldump to about 20,000 feet.Sounds like it would be something to see. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Oct 1 10:32:44 2000 e91FWhG13029 Sun, 1 Oct 2000 10:33:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Binder parts Their web site won't come up from that address ! GMA from sats@gte.net Sun Oct 1 10:41:43 2000 e91FfgG13282 Subject: Lo Angle Plane modified, Anyone done that? oops! oops! I must have been tired. Meant 30 and 40deg on the angle of the blade Now that I've got everyone confused... ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Sun Oct 1 13:01:57 2000 e91I1uG15409 Subject: Re: Lo Angle Plane modified... Tony Young wrote:... Because there is an exact relationship between the depth of the cut andthemouth opening when it comes to fine work. When the edge cuts the wood,thewood still splinters but because it's a fine splinter and the mouth is setfine as soon as the splinter passes through the mouth it's wedged betweenthe cutting edge of the blade and the forward edge of the mouth whichbreaks the splinter or chip and curls it. If the depth of cut is set finebut the mouth is too wide the splinter goes further up the edge beforebreaking and so it tears along in front of the mouth and is uncontrolable.Set the mouth too narrow for the depth and the opening clogs.You can not only feel whan a plane is cutting well but hear it.... I just wanted to thank you all for the information on plane angles, and especially Tony for his explanation of the mouth opening on the plane. I never really understood before why it was best to have a plane with an adjustable mouth, but Tony's explanation above clearly describes why. Thanks again, Claude from FlyfishT@aol.com Sun Oct 1 15:01:46 2000 e91K1jG17304 Subject: Mac from Michigan email address Does anyone have Mac's email address? I believe he was from Michigan. OrMac, are you listening? Please email me offline. Tom from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sun Oct 1 17:11:29 2000 e91MBQG19448 Subject: Binder Parts I want to thank the several list members who posted replies for mostuseful input on sources for binder parts. Sean from BambooRods@aol.com Sun Oct 1 20:48:42 2000 e921mfG23261 Subject: Off Subject, Drift Boat Kits I am thinking about building a drift boat over the winter. Anyone with with an opinion as to what style or vendors etc., I would love to hear.TIA,Doug Hall from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Oct 1 20:56:44 2000 e921uiG23593 Subject: Bronze tip-tops Friends,Do any of you know a source for bronzed tip-tops? MikeMcCoy doesn't handle them, and I would really like a few tomate with the bronze finish SnakeBrand guides. Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Oct 1 21:01:33 2000 e9221WG23849 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Off Subject, Drift Boat Kits Doug,Yes... I definitely have a suggestion for a vendor. I had one of hisboats at one time and they are TOP NOTCH kits... and VERY reasonable too.Shipping can get to you a little bit, but not too bad considering the priceof a pre fabbed wooden drift boat. Greg Tattman owns the company, hiswebsite addy is http://www.gregboats.com/pages/driftboats.html Just putittogether the way he says and use the finishes he recommends and you willhave a boat that will be the envy of the river.On suggestions... just depends on what you want and how you are going touse it... for a single man boat, that you can actually put in the back of apickup and take, he now makes a 12' McKenzie kit that is ideal for that.Anything bigger and you're gonna need a trailer... his biggest, I believe isa 17 1/2 foot deep sided drift boat that is a great guide size boat, andwill handle about any kind of water you want to get on, if you areexperienced in a drift boat. He makes several sizes in between these two.Really, don't let price be a consideration, and after you see his prices youprobably won't anyways. The price range is very tight. By that I mean,there really isn't that much difference between the price of a 12 footer anda 17 footer, so just be sure and get one big enough that you won't eversay... "Man, I wish I had gotten the next size up!" I had a 16' boat yearsago, and for what I used it for it was great. Held two flyfishers and anoarsman, but if I was going to guide out of one, i'd definitely get the deepside 17.5 foot.When you look at the prices, keep in mind that you'll need an anchoringsystem (his is pretty good), oarlocks, oars, etc... but the base price forthe boat is very reasonable. If someone knows a better boat for a betterprice, I'd sure like to hear about it, because I definitely plan to buildanother after I get my shop finished this spring. btw... no financial interest on my part, just think Tatman makes a finedrift boat kit Later,bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Off Subject, Drift Boat Kits I am thinking about building a drift boat over the winter. Anyone withwithan opinion as to what style or vendors etc., I would love to hear.TIA,Doug Hall from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Oct 1 21:50:48 2000 e922okG25186 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Attention Bill Hoy RE: Cork Group Order Sorry for the bandwidth, but Bill Hoy, your email address bounced, pleaseemail me again and check your system. This is the address that bounced... bhoy@inmind.com Let me know if you get this message and please respond. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from cadams46@juno.com Sun Oct 1 22:43:30 2000 e923hTG26277 23:43:18 EDT Subject: Rodmakers Gather Query With quite a bit of talk recently or rather quite a bit of talk all yearlong about the various gathering I got to thinking, a dangerous thing. What is required to set up a gathering and would anyone be interested incoming to Salt Lake City? We have beautiful pristine rocky mountainstreams and with the Olympics coming up in 2 years there maybe somethingto see there pregames? Granted the Mormons are an overwhelmingpresencebut no big deal. Wether you like big streams or creeks or backwoodscutthroat you can usually find it here. Just curious, aside from thatmay turn out I don't have the gumption to make it work anyhow. Thanks. And I apologize in advance for having not particularly rodmaking relatedquestion and to any folks out there of the LDS faith.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 2 05:15:37 2000 e92AFYG01857 Subject: Re: Off subject. Sorry again and it's the last time I'll do it re. the olympics, promise.I just heard the show put together called "The Dream" that went to air eachnight after the days events is being aired in the US.It's hosted by a pr called Roy & HG and if you can catch it do. It's aboutthe funniest thing you'll see in a long time. If you like that twerp TheCrockadile Hunter you'll LOVE these guys.Just keep in mind no matter how serious these guys seem to be EVERY partofit is played for laughs.Thought I should mention that because the humor is VERY Aussie and youmaywonder about some of it. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from billh@inmind.com Mon Oct 2 08:06:12 2000 e92D6BG04458 Subject: reamers Hi, y'all, I sent a query about reamers to the list yesterday, but it hasn't showed up. So I'll try again. Since a lot of people seem to be making steel forms right now, maybe others have this question, too. I'm at the stage of milling my groove, but I noticed that my dowel pins are pretty loose. If I turn the form over so that side is down, some of them will fall out. I didn't use a reamer but just drilled a 1/4" hole for the dowels. Should I ream them out to 5/32 (or what?) and install the appropriate size pin. I am using the dowels as my ONLY guide for flatness since I overdrilled the area for the shoulder bolts. Reamers: Looking thru my enco catalog, I notice that all of the reamers for sale are meant for machine use. Does this mean a drill press? I had assumed that a reamer was a hand tool like a tap. Any pointers on using this tool? SHould I leave well enough alone or try to make sure things are perfect? I've invested a huge amount of time on these forms, so I want them as perfect as possible. But I also don't want to screw them up and have to start over. I'm sure I'll have more questions later when I get to the last few thousandths on the grooves. TIA, Bill Hoy from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Oct 2 08:07:18 2000 e92D7HG04562 Subject: Re: Bronze tip-tops Harry:I believe Angler's Workshop has H & H bronze tip- tops.www.anglersworkshop.com 1-800-278-1069 (USA only).Ed -----Original Message----- Subject: Bronze tip-tops Friends,Do any of you know a source for bronzed tip-tops? MikeMcCoy doesn't handle them, and I would really like a few tomate with the bronze finish SnakeBrand guides. Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 2 08:13:39 2000 e92DDbG04922 Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:13:21 +0800 Subject: Re: reamers Can't comment re. the kind of work involved in what you're suggesting sofar as working with the steel but hand reamers have a taper from theleading end towards the trailing like a tap while machine reamers areparallel from front to back. I'd imagine you'd have a hand full trying touse a machine reamer by hand though you can use a hand reamer in a tool. Tony At 09:04 AM 10/2/00 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:Hi, y'all, I sent a query about reamers to the list yesterday, but it hasn't showed up. So I'll try again. Since a lot of people seem to be making steel forms right now, maybeothers have this question, too. I'm at the stage of milling my groove, but I noticed that my dowel pins are pretty loose. If I turn the form over so that side is down, some of them will fall out. I didn't use a reamer but just drilled a 1/4" hole for the dowels. Should I ream them out to 5/32 (or what?) and install the appropriate size pin. I am using the dowels as my ONLY guide for flatness since I overdrilled the area for the shoulder bolts. Reamers: Looking thru my enco catalog, I notice that all of the reamers for sale are meant for machine use. Does this mean a drill press? I hadassumed that a reamer was a hand tool like a tap. Any pointers on using this tool? SHould I leave well enough alone or try to make sure things are perfect? I've invested a huge amount of time on these forms, so I want them as perfect as possible. But I also don't want to screw them up and have to start over. I'm sure I'll have more questions later when I get to the last few thousandths on the grooves. TIA, Bill Hoy /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Oct 2 08:41:13 2000 e92DfCG06131 Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:41:11 -0500 Subject: Re: reamers O.K., here's where ENCO gets left in the dust. A proper dowel pin set up isa pressed fit of the dowel. You can buy a box of most dowels pins for a fewbucks, and the correct reamer for $10 or so. If the dowel pin is .1875, thereamer will be about .0005" under this. I buy 99% of all such tools fromTravers Tool www.traverstool.com Ask for their master catalog, as it hasall the special dowel pin reamers listed together under one section. Traversalso carries an infinite stock of special reamer sizes, at a fraction of thecost from other suppliers ! When I found them, my shop supply bill went down$1K a year easy ! What's really neat, is they rarely zero out an item ! You must drill under size, and ream to the exact under size fit for a goodpress on the dowel pin. Another reamer can be used for the mating hole thatallows a slip fit, that has no play. GMA from brucevani@ameritech.net Mon Oct 2 08:43:18 2000 e92DhHG06307 Subject: A novice question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C02C4C.85DC0720 Folks, I have been recently been awarded with a new cane rod to be built to my =specifications. My problem is that I have only ever fished graphite. I =have a general idea of size and weight, but have become bewildered by =the topic of tapers!! I would like to be able to communicate with the rodmaker about what I =would like to have, but need to do some homework before I call him. =What sort of questions should I be prepared to answer? I know that I =want a dry fly rod about 7 feet long to throw about a 3 weight line. = This is going to be a very special rod and I want to make sure it is =done right. I won't be able to visit the rodmaker so this all has to be =done via the phone. If you would be so kind, please help me prepare to =talk to the rodmaker so I don't sound like a total fool. Thank you = Regards, Bruce Van Inwegenbrucevani@ameritech.net ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C02C4C.85DC0720 Folks, I have been recently been awarded with= bewildered by the topic of tapers!! I would like to be able to communicate = rodmaker about what I would like to have, but need to do some homework = know that I want a dry fly rod about 7 feet long to throw about a 3 = This is going to be a very special rod = Regards, Bruce Van Inwegenbrucevani@ameritech.net ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C02C4C.85DC0720-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Oct 2 08:44:12 2000 e92DiBG06442 Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:43:55 -0500 Subject: Re: reamers Yes the reamers I spoke of for dowel pins etc., are for use in a drillpress, or vertical mill. To ream, you turn at a very slow speed, and floodwith oil as it cuts. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 2 08:46:49 2000 e92DkkG06735 Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:46:44 +0800 Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:46:43 +0800 Subject: Re: A novice question Try and find either a WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98 and see what you think.These are actually #4 DT but soooo nice. Tony At 08:41 AM 10/2/00 -0500, Bruce Van Inwegen wrote: Folks, I have been recently been awarded with a new cane rod to be built to myspecifications. My problem is that I have only ever fished graphite. Ihavea general idea of size and weight, but have become bewildered by thetopic oftapers!! I would like to be able to communicate with the rodmaker about what Iwouldlike to have, but need to do some homework before I call him. What sort ofquestions should I be prepared to answer? I know that I want a dry fly rodabout 7 feet long to throw about a 3 weight line. That doesn't seem likemuch information for a builder to go on. This is going to be a very special rod and I want to make sure it is doneright. I won't be able to visit the rodmaker so this all has to be done viathe phone. If you would be so kind, please help me prepare to talk to therodmaker so I don't sound like a total fool. Thank you very much inadvance. Regards, Bruce Van Inwegenbrucevani@ameritech.net /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Oct 2 09:03:52 2000 e92E3pG07556 Subject: Re: Bronze tip-tops The H&H bronze guides and tops are much lighter in color than theSnakebrand snakes, or at least they were last year. They don't seem like a real good match to me. Are there other altneratives? --Rich from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Mon Oct 2 09:04:57 2000 e92E4uG07760 Subject: Re: reamers Date sent: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 09:04:38 -0400 Subject: reamers Hi, y'all, I didn't use areamer but just drilled a 1/4" hole for the dowels. Should I ream themout to 5/32 (or what?) and install the appropriate size pin. Bill. lose the dowel pins and run down to your local hardware store and get a handful of those springloaded roll pins . If you get ones provide you with a nice snug fit, and an easily adjustable form, I built mine using these and it seems to work great. Others on the list have also built them this way with success, and it will only cost you a couple a' bucks at the most! Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Oct 2 09:30:38 2000 e92EUcG09185 Subject: Fw: Bronze tip-tops I took a look at the Golden Witch website and he recommends Dave LeClair'sbronze tip-tops and apparently one can order them from GW.Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bronze tip-tops Harry---a couple of years ago Dave LeClair was bronzing guides and tiptops by the electro plating process. I know in the meantime he has soldsome rights to other of his processes such as the snake guide maker toGolden Witch===I dont know where he stands on the process felectrplating, but it might be worth a call-- I would also like a fewtip tops to top off my McCoy bronzed guides. Alex from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Oct 2 09:38:29 2000 e92EcTG09716 Subject: Re: A novice question --------------F93E21352738F398DEFFE5F6 Bruce,The following are just some of your choices:1/ Taper ---- Taper dictates the Action - Fast, Medium, Slow (ordivisions thereof). Using words like "semi-parabolic" may only confusethe issue, it may be best to think in terms of your personal pace. Ifyou must do everything quickly, and you don't mind popping some tippets,go for a Fast action. If you enjoy fishing, go for something slower . :)2/ Nodeless or noded, four-five-or six sided.3/ Color of cane4/ Flamed?5/ Type of ferrules (you can skip this one, but some do like stepdown)6/ Intermediates?7/ Length of grip8/ Shape and diameter of grip9/ Reelseat (up-or-downlocking, cap and ring, skeleton or solidN.S.)10/ Snake type (single or double foot - choose double) left orright twist, color11/ Stripper type (I like agate), and distance from hand.12/ Color of windings.13/ Hookkeeper?etc. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bruce Van Inwegen wrote: Folks, I have been recently been awarded with a new cane rod to bebuilt to my specifications. My problem is that I have only everfished graphite. I have a general idea of size and weight, but havebecome bewildered by the topic of tapers!! I would like to be able tocommunicate with the rodmaker about what I would like to have, butneed to do some homework before I call him. What sort of questionsshould I be prepared to answer? I know that I want a dry fly rodabout 7 feet long to throw about a 3 weight line. That doesn't seemlike much information for a builder to go on. This is going to be avery special rod and I want to make sure it is done right. I won't beable to visit the rodmaker so this all has to be done via the phone.If you would be so kind, please help me prepare to talk to therodmaker so I don't sound like a total fool. Thank you very much inadvance. Regards, Bruce Van Inwegenbrucevani@ameritech.net --------------F93E21352738F398DEFFE5F6 Bruce, theAction - Fast, Medium, Slow (or divisions thereof). Using words like "semi- parabolic"may only confuse the issue, it may be best to think in terms of your personalpace. If you must do everything quickly, and you don't mind popping sometippets, go for a Fast action. If you enjoy fishing, go for something slower. : ) five-orsix sided. skipthis one, but some do like step down) downlocking,cap and ring, skeleton or solid N.S.) doublefoot - choose double) left or right twist, color agate),and distance from hand. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bruce Van Inwegen wrote: have been recently been awarded with a new cane rod to be built to my would like to be able to communicate with the rodmaker about what I would doesn't seem like much information for a builder to go is going to be a very special rod and I want to make sure it is done right.I won't be able to visit the rodmaker so this all has to be done via thephone. If you would be so kind, please help me prepare to talk to therodmaker Van Inwegenbrucevani@ameritech.net --------------F93E21352738F398DEFFE5F6-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 2 10:02:29 2000 Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:02:45 -0500 Subject: Re: A novice question I have to agree on the Sir "D". It is a sweet little rod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Young wrote: Try and find either a WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98 and see what youthink.These are actually #4 DT but soooo nice. Tony At 08:41 AM 10/2/00 -0500, Bruce Van Inwegen wrote: Folks, I have been recently been awarded with a new cane rod to be built to myspecifications. My problem is that I have only ever fished graphite. Ihavea general idea of size and weight, but have become bewildered by thetopic oftapers!! I would like to be able to communicate with the rodmaker about what Iwouldlike to have, but need to do some homework before I call him. What sortofquestions should I be prepared to answer? I know that I want a dry flyrodabout 7 feet long to throw about a 3 weight line. That doesn't seem likemuch information for a builder to go on. This is going to be a very special rod and I want to make sure it is doneright. I won't be able to visit the rodmaker so this all has to be done viathe phone. If you would be so kind, please help me prepare to talk to therodmaker so I don't sound like a total fool. Thank you very much inadvance. Regards, Bruce Van Inwegenbrucevani@ameritech.net /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from brewer@teleport.com Mon Oct 2 10:11:45 2000 e92FBiG11186 "taliesin" 2000 Subject: Re: Off Subject, Drift Boat Kits I recommend Greg Tatman. I know some people who have built his boats andhehelped me refinish a wooden driftboat I used to own. He is a good guy. Hiswebsite is: http://www.gregboats.com Randy Brewer ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Off Subject, Drift Boat Kits I am thinking about building a drift boat over the winter. Anyone withwithan opinion as to what style or vendors etc., I would love to hear.TIA,Doug Hall from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Oct 2 11:01:40 2000 e92G1cG12886 09:03:13 PDT Subject: Re: A novice question i like the payne 97. it is a true 4wt, a littleslower than the 98. timothy --- Tony Spezio wrote:I have to agree on the Sir "D". It is a sweet littlerod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Young wrote: Try and find either a WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne98 and see what you think.These are actually #4 DT but soooo nice. Tony At 08:41 AM 10/2/00 -0500, Bruce Van Inwegenwrote: Folks, I have been recently been awarded with a newcane rod to be built to myspecifications. My problem is that I have onlyever fished graphite. Ihavea general idea of size and weight, but havebecome bewildered by thetopic oftapers!! I would like to be able to communicate with therodmaker about what I wouldlike to have, but need to do some homeworkbefore I call him. What sort ofquestions should I be prepared to answer? Iknow that I want a dry fly rodabout 7 feet long to throw about a 3 weightline. That doesn't seem likemuch information for a builder to go on. This is going to be a very special rod and Iwant to make sure it is doneright. I won't be able to visit the rodmaker sothis all has to be done viathe phone. If you would be so kind, please helpme prepare to talk to therodmaker so I don't sound like a total fool. Thank you very much inadvance. Regards, Bruce Van Inwegen brucevani@ameritech.net /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Oct 2 11:02:55 2000 e92G2qG13020 09:02:46 PDT Subject: Re: A novice question bruce, i like the payne 97. it is a true 4wt, alittle slower than the 98. i would stick with a 4wtverses a 3wt if you are to have 1 rod. timothy --- Tony Spezio wrote:I have to agree on the Sir "D". It is a sweet littlerod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Young wrote: Try and find either a WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne98 and see what you think.These are actually #4 DT but soooo nice. Tony At 08:41 AM 10/2/00 -0500, Bruce Van Inwegenwrote: Folks, I have been recently been awarded with a newcane rod to be built to myspecifications. My problem is that I have onlyever fished graphite. Ihavea general idea of size and weight, but havebecome bewildered by thetopic oftapers!! I would like to be able to communicate with therodmaker about what I wouldlike to have, but need to do some homeworkbefore I call him. What sort ofquestions should I be prepared to answer? Iknow that I want a dry fly rodabout 7 feet long to throw about a 3 weightline. That doesn't seem likemuch information for a builder to go on. This is going to be a very special rod and Iwant to make sure it is doneright. I won't be able to visit the rodmaker sothis all has to be done viathe phone. If you would be so kind, please helpme prepare to talk to therodmaker so I don't sound like a total fool. Thank you very much inadvance. Regards, Bruce Van Inwegen brucevani@ameritech.net /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Mon Oct 2 11:07:08 2000 e92G76G13303 Subject: Paul Blakley: Thanks for the web site. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C02C6A.26252D20 Hi Paul, Thanks for the web sites, have been to one and it wall full of info. Pleaseexcuse lateness but up here in Maine the fall runs are on, cold fingers andbig fish. Pual, tried to send to your e-mail address and it bounced, if you could sendme your e-mail we could stay in touch off list. Well back to the shop tocatch up on the work I should of been doing. Take care and Upstream always,Tim. My e-mail is rodsupstream@exploremaine.com. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C02C6A.26252D20 Paul, Thanks = sites, have been to one and it wall full of info. Please excuse lateness = Pual, = to your e-mail address and it bounced, if you could send me your e-mail = stay in touch off list. Well back to the shop to catch up on the work I = of been doing. Take care and Upstream always, Tim. My e-mail is rodsupstream@exploremaine.c= Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C02C6A.26252D20-- from mevans@acxiom.com Mon Oct 2 13:59:05 2000 e92Ix4G20174 aerynsun.acxiom.com for;Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:08:05 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: DT or WF Line Though it is likely to vary by rod, would a few folks who fish a Dickerson7613mind sharing with me whether you like a DT or a WF line on it? I'm justcompletingthe 1952 taper listed in Howell's book. I'm planning to use an XPS line. (The local fly shops don't have DT lines on sample reels.) Thanks much,Mark Evans from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 2 14:56:09 2000 e92Ju8G22929 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: DT or WF Line mevans - Mark Evans wrote: Though it is likely to vary by rod, would a few folks who fish a Dickerson7613mind sharing with me whether you like a DT or a WF line on it? I'm justcompletingthe 1952 taper listed in Howell's book. I'm planning to use an XPS line. (The local fly shops don't have DT lines on sample reels.) Thanks much,Mark Evans Mark,I'm not too sure about the Dickerson, but most classic rod tapers called around, we'll try LOTS of different lines on it. Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Mon Oct 2 15:22:44 2000 e92KMhG24136 Subject: Re: DT or WF Line --=====================_928941==_.ALT I built a 7613 this last winter and have a SA WF5 XPS line on my Hardy reel. Works great. Very fast rod, eh? I am awaiting a Phoenix DT5 for it, but I like the WF for now.Best regards,Bob At 02:02 PM 10/2/00 -0500, you wrote:Though it is likely to vary by rod, would a few folks who fish a Dickerson7613mind sharing with me whether you like a DT or a WF line on it? I'm justcompletingthe 1952 taper listed in Howell's book. I'm planning to use an XPS line. (The local fly shops don't have DT lines on sample reels.) Thanks much,Mark Evans Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_928941==_.ALT I built a 7613 this last winter and have a SA WF5 XPS line on my Hardyreel. Works great. Very fast rod, eh? I am awaiting a Phoenix DT5 for it,but I like the WF for now. Best regards,Bob At 02:02 PM 10/2/00 -0500, you wrote:Though it is likely to vary by rod, would afew folks who fish a Dickerson7613 justcompleting (The local fly shops don't have DT lines on sample reels.) Thanks much,Mark Evans Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_928941==_.ALT-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Oct 2 15:30:00 2000 e92KTxG24587 Subject: Re: DT or WF Line Mark, if you check the manufacturer's spec's you will see that the first 35feet or so of both the DT and WF lines are the same or have minordifferences. Any difference is usually in the length of the front taper. A long front taper turns over more gently. Otherwise the two linesbehave very much alike for the first 35 feet. Beyond 35 feet the DT iseasier to roll cast. ----------From: mevans - Mark Evans Subject: DT or WF LineDate: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:02 PM Though it is likely to vary by rod, would a few folks who fish aDickerson7613mind sharing with me whether you like a DT or a WF line on it? I'm justcompletingthe 1952 taper listed in Howell's book. I'm planning to use an XPS line. (The local fly shops don't have DT lines on sample reels.) Thanks much,Mark Evans from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Oct 2 17:10:31 2000 e92MAUG28791 Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:10:25 -0500 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: DT or WF Line Be sure and get a std. WF line, and not a Bass Bug WF, as it's vastlydifferent. GMA from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Oct 2 17:48:45 2000 e92MmiG00499 Subject: There are no dumb questions, right? Filing of my soon-to-be (or eventually-to-be) planing forms started thisweekend. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask, right? Sohere goes. I'm following Thomas Penrose's insturctions on form making.The steel has been clamped, I'm ready to file. Is the file pulled orpushed along the bar? from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Oct 2 18:15:02 2000 e92NF1G01281 Subject: Shell Epon Recently (last week or two), Tony commented that he heat treated ShellEponepoxy but did not give temp., time, etc. I know that most folks don't seemto use heat curing for Epon (including me) likely because several of us useTitebond II for splices in nodeless rods. I believe that Tony uses Epon forboth splices and strips. Heat treatment of Epon peaked my interest(especially for use on noded rods) and I spent this afternoon searching thearchives looking for treatment temps/times for the latter. One individualheat treated 180 F for four hours, another 180 F at 1 1/2 hrs. Anotherindividual said that Epon (and other glues) turned to jello at just alittle over 200 F. These were the only comments I could come up with reheat treatment. Would any of you folks who heat cure Epon care to sharetemps/times and how long after gluing heat treatment is done? Sorry fortaking up bandwidth, but I DID try to do my homework.TIAJ. Snider from sats@gte.net Mon Oct 2 18:43:01 2000 e92Nh0G02194 Subject: Plane angle again... Well, now that I messed up the plane question like I did, maybe I could tryagain. Sorry about all the confusion. a. The blade Stanley 9 1/2 is set at about a 22deg. The blades are groundtoabout a 30deg angle. That means the cutting angle is approx 52 deg.(22+30) b. The blade on a Stanley 60 1/2 is set at about half that or around 12deg. sothat would be a cutting angle of approx 42 deg. (12 + 30 = 42 ) My question (and thanks Tony Y for your outstanding explanation of planes)is:Would it not be feasible to grind the blade of a 60 1/2 to a 40 degree angle?A cutting angle of 52 degrees (or even more). The same as a 9 1/2. Does the bottom angle of the blade have any effect on the cut? It doesn'tseemlike it should have an adverse effect. In fact it seems like it might help ina couple of ways. The bottom would hold down the work between the edgeand theplane bottom, and the greater angle would keep the blade from wearing asquicklyas it would at a sharper angle? Has anyone actually used a steeper angle on a 60 1/2? Pro or con? I have a modern 60 1/2 that I bough about a year ago, at a Home Depot. Itwasn't until after I got it home that I discovered the error. Home Depotdoesn't carry the other (9 1/2) style, so I couldn't exchange it. It's beensetting around the work room for a year when I got it out and decided to tryit.My first strip seemed to come out okay. I just wondered if anyone had moreinformation? There, I hope that's better. ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Oct 2 18:44:23 2000 e92NiMG02321 QAA22698 Subject: Re: There are no dumb questions, right? Having just done this you will find that it doesn't matter. It is going tobe equally tedious any way that you do it. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: There are no dumb questions, right? Filing of my soon-to-be (or eventually-to-be) planing forms started thisweekend. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask, right? Sohere goes. I'm following Thomas Penrose's insturctions on form making.The steel has been clamped, I'm ready to file. Is the file pulled orpushed along the bar? from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Oct 2 19:14:04 2000 e930E3G03308 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... I grind all my plane blades to obtain a 60 degree angle between the cuttingedge and the plane base. With a "quick" edge this ends up at 65 degrees. The old Herters book on rod making suggested 70 degrees and I havefollowedthis practice ever since my first rod over 25 years ago.---------- From: Terry Kirkpatrick Subject: Plane angle again...Date: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:38 PM Well, now that I messed up the plane question like I did, maybe I couldtryagain. Sorry about all the confusion. a. The blade Stanley 9 1/2 is set at about a 22deg. The blades areground toabout a 30deg angle. That means the cutting angle is approx 52 deg.(22+30) b. The blade on a Stanley 60 1/2 is set at about half that or around12deg. sothat would be a cutting angle of approx 42 deg. (12 + 30 = 42 ) My question (and thanks Tony Y for your outstanding explanation ofplanes) is:Would it not be feasible to grind the blade of a 60 1/2 to a 40 degreeangle?A cutting angle of 52 degrees (or even more). The same as a 9 1/2. Does the bottom angle of the blade have any effect on the cut? Itdoesn't seemlike it should have an adverse effect. In fact it seems like it mighthelp ina couple of ways. The bottom would hold down the work between the edgeand theplane bottom, and the greater angle would keep the blade from wearing asquicklyas it would at a sharper angle? Has anyone actually used a steeper angle on a 60 1/2? Pro or con? I have a modern 60 1/2 that I bough about a year ago, at a Home Depot. Itwasn't until after I got it home that I discovered the error. Home Depotdoesn't carry the other (9 1/2) style, so I couldn't exchange it. It'sbeensetting around the work room for a year when I got it out and decided totry it.My first strip seemed to come out okay. I just wondered if anyone hadmoreinformation? There, I hope that's better. ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from rmoon@ida.net Mon Oct 2 19:14:13 2000 e930ECG03355 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... --------------68E95D1A3373043FBEE29AE0 Terry, I am no expert on planes; my only experience is thirty years ofplaning bamboo. When Garrison's book hit the press I reevaluated what Ihad and bought a 60 1/2. I very rapidly learned that I didn't like it off a lot of cane very rapidly. Then I began to hear from the rod listthat the 60 1/2 was not really suitable for bamboo work and I droppedout of the habit of using it. It took some time to realize that Imissed the little bounder for the good things it does. DON'T BELIEVEEVERYTHING YOU HEAR ON THIS LIST. The 60 1/2 is a good tool and as faras I am concerned, if you keep the blades SHARP it is a very good tool.Ralph --------------68E95D1A3373043FBEE29AE0 reevaluated like it for fine finish planing, but as for rough planing, I could safely rod list that the 60 1/2 was not really suitable for bamboo work and I tooland as far as I am concerned, if you keep the blades SHARPit is a very good tool.Ralph --------------68E95D1A3373043FBEE29AE0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 2 20:57:57 2000 e931vsG05756 Subject: Re: Sv: Hock and Lie Did my message to you bounce again?I'll send this to the list and hopefuly you'll get it that way.O prefered to send it privately because as I write below I'm stillexperimenting with times but my feeling in general is the main thing is tojust kick the glue and make sure it cures quickly rather than let it takelonger at room temp. This *seems* to make a dif for scarfs though thetempswe get here in Perth for the most part are what a lot of you guys would beelevating to too so I never kick when gluing the splines. Jerry,I'm still altering times because I'm coming to the belief the Epon worksbest the faster it cures within certain limits, the slower it cures themore problems you seem to get. I'm looking at the shorted and coolest timeI can find that works so it doesn't affect the colour or the bamboo toomuch and so far using Versamid 140 I'm heating to 80 c for 80 mins.Now, my oven is a (currently) frightening thing to behold and thethermastat has about a 15 c range +/- before it kicks in or out so don'tjust take these times as gospel but prob not a bad start to try. As far as safety goes I just use surgical rubber glues so my hands aren'tcovered with the glue. I've become sensitised with some epoxies from yearsback when I was simply covered in the stuff every day building boats but ifI wasn't I may not bother with the gloves because getting some on you fromtime to time as far as I can tell wont do any harm.There are no vapours to worry about. Don't breath the sanding dust.Basicaly it's more or less the same as UF or resorcinol. Tony At 10:03 AM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote:Tony, at what temp and how long do you post heat Shell Epon? Also, whatprotection (how careful) do you use for Shell Epon from a safetystandpoint?TIAJ. Snider At 12:50 AM 09/25/2000 +0800, you wrote:LET ME SAY RIGHT NOW Shell Epon is great glue and NOT what was sold tomewhen I had a problem with glue failing.I can't stress enough the problem glue WAS NOT Shell Epon.The first lot of glue I bought from the local mob that sold me the glue waspoured from a 44 gal drum and was indeed Shell Epon and the correcthardener but in the mean time they went away from it making epoxy inhousebased on Epon but more flexible for use as a base for marine paint, as Ilater discovered.I in my stupidity assumed it was the same stuff when I went back to buysome more and just asked for some more of the same glue. The individual Idelt with knew what I was asking for but thought the new formula wasevenbetter then the original for making rods, you know, rods bend and all thatso didn't bother telling me of the change.It wasn't better. It was bad.Since getting the right stuff from Bingham Archery and post heating asadvised in the specs I've had no problems nor ever expect to.The resin I have now is 826 and is fine. Don't worry. I've made a fewnodeless rods with this including the two I brought with me to Greylingwhich I used at every possible moment and they are still going strongenough for me to be taking them to NZ in Nov without fear of failure.Incidently these rods (Driggs and Dickerson 7614) were not post heatedbutthe results from my bench testing are better if you do. Tony At 12:16 PM 9/24/00 -0400, Bill Walters wrote:Tony,The reference to Epon and that the guy said the formula had changedand hedidn'tthink it would matter. Are you saying that it was not Epon or that it wasadifferent Epon? When I bought my Epon from Bingham, out in Utah theytoldme thatthe formula I was asking for had been replaced by a new one. I just lookedat thebottle again and I think I'm going to have to call them because it says826 not828. If Ralph Moon is out there, is this what you ordered from them lasttime? Thanks,Bill Walters /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from BJCarlson@webtv.net Mon Oct 2 21:35:50 2000 e932ZnG06588 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA23758; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:35:48 - ETAsAhRhL9ouTr3s3vWg7cjF8RUaARGuEgIUM0yB7LRnTZOjVvfmOFb3k6L75MI= Subject: Rod ID Does anyone recognize Arlie Roff. Just bought 8 1/2ft 3/2 Ebay rodmarked Arlie Roff Xpert "20" Doublebuilt. Scandanavian maybe? TIA, Bob from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Oct 2 22:04:41 2000 e9334eG07287 20:04:39 PDT Subject: Re: Plane angle again... ralph really did say this.... does. DON'T BELIEVEEVERYTHING YOU HEAR ON THIS LIST. The 60 1/2 is a ...now he is going to bamboo hell. :-) timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Mon Oct 2 22:17:58 2000 e933HwG07785 e933Hsp97774;Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:17:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... Terry, You are correct that the angle of the front edge of the blade makes with thecane is what determines the cutting characteristics. If this angle is thesame there is no perceptible difference in the way the 60 1/2 and the 9 1/2cut. The 60 1/2 is narrower and lighter, and like Ralph Moon, I prefer it same jig set to 45 degrees. The 60 1/2 cuts easier because of theshallowerangle, and the 9 1/2 is less likely to lift grainbecause of the steeperangle. -- Robert Kope from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Oct 3 02:54:49 2000 e937skG11746 Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:54:41 +0800 Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:54:40 +0800 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... Perhaps I shouldn't really reply because it's going to seem as if all I'mdoing is starting a yes it is; not it's not argument but I'm not convincedall you need to do is grind the iron to a steeper angle to achieve betterplaning. I started using a 60 1/2 because I've had one for about 20 years,it's one of the very nice Stanleys that is a pleasure to use and messedabout with different angles and wound up going with a 9 1/2 because itseems to me anyhow to be the better model for planing bamboo but it's stillnot what I'd call idea for the task.I mean, if all you have to do is grind the iron to a different angle whymake two different block planes? I guess the answer could be to sell more planes but how many people do youknow with both? Apart from us shaving makers I doubt there is any othergroup of people that concerned with block planes the the variations.If Stanley and Record decided to drop one who'd notice in the wider schemeof things? All we'd have to do then is buy which ever they continued. Tony At 08:04 PM 10/2/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:ralph really did say this.... does. DON'T BELIEVEEVERYTHING YOU HEAR ON THIS LIST. The 60 1/2 is a ...now he is going to bamboo hell. :-) timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Oct 3 08:04:39 2000 e93D4cG14660 GAA14988 Subject: Guide spacing - Perfectionist G'mornin', all -I've been looking through the archives for the guide spacing for the PHYPerfectionist and although I've seen the question appear, I've not beenable to find the answer anywhere. I did see several references to "useWayne's program", or "guide spacing doesn't matter all that much", asgeneral advice, but I was hoping to do the same as on the original. Ichecked Howell's book, and Maurer & Elser book and though they both havethe taper, neither had the guide spacing. So, with all due apologies for yet again posting this question, ormissing the answer if it was there somewhere: would someone please postthe PHY Perfectionist guide spacing? Thanks much - mac from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Oct 3 08:17:13 2000 e93DHCG15373 Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:17:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide spacing - Perfectionist This is a big hole in our vast amount of info available on all the rodtapers ! The guide spacing is rarely shown for any ! GMA from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Oct 3 08:56:12 2000 e93DuBG16606 Subject: Guide spacing - Perfectionist This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C02D21.079EEB40 Hi, rule of thumb is one per foot and rounding up one for the half foot.Don't forget to do stress duration test and than cast rod with guide andsnakes taped in place to make finial adjustments. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C02D21.079EEB40 Hi, = one per foot and rounding up one for the half foot. Don't forget to do = duration test and than cast rod with guide and snakes taped in place to = finial adjustments. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C02D21.079EEB40-- from rmoon@ida.net Tue Oct 3 09:49:22 2000 e93EnLG18320 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... --------------607B58595EB8D741CC83DF85 Timothy wroteralph really did say this.... does. DON'T BELIEVEEVERYTHING YOU HEAR ON THIS LIST. The 60 1/2 is a ...now he is going to bamboo hell. :-) timothy And what, Sir, makes you think I have not already achieved Nirvana. Iam figurtively chained to my planes, and like the bound Promethius,someday from my bonds shall I rise in a fiery flame of a perfectrod.---and then again??? --------------607B58595EB8D741CC83DF85 Timothy wroteralph really did say this.... And what, Sir, makes you think I have not already achieved I am figurtively chained to my planes, and like the bound Promethius,someday from my bonds shall I rise in a fiery flame of a perfect rod.---andthen again??? --------------607B58595EB8D741CC83DF85-- from rmoon@ida.net Tue Oct 3 09:51:21 2000 e93EpKG18441 Subject: Re: Shell Epon Jerry I hope that this is not a duplicate message. I don't think the otherone I wrote got out of the computer. There are different formulations degrees, but the one I use is the 851 resin and it will taketemperatures up to 350 degrees, although I don't usually work thathigh,. I look at the sections and if the glue is hard they are done,regardless of the temperature or the time.I can glue up and work on thesections within an hour. I'd check to see which epon you have and thendo a little experimenting with it.Ralph from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Oct 3 11:34:48 2000 e93GYlG22177 Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:35:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... --------------A7840DF7F19EDFA3C98F3FA4 I like that Ralph,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ralph W Moon wrote: Timothy wroteralph really did say this.... does. DON'T BELIEVEEVERYTHING YOU HEAR ON THIS LIST. The 60 1/2is a ...now he is going to bamboo hell. :-) timothy And what, Sir, makes you think I have notalready achieved Nirvana. I am figurtivelychained to my planes, and like the boundPromethius, someday from my bonds shall I risein a fiery flame of a perfect rod.---and thenagain??? --------------A7840DF7F19EDFA3C98F3FA4 I like that Ralph, Ralph W Moon wrote:Timothy wroteralph really did say this.... And what, Sir, makes you think I have not already achieved I am figurtively chained to my planes, and like the bound Promethius,someday from my bonds shall I rise in a fiery flame of a perfect rod.---andthen again??? --------------A7840DF7F19EDFA3C98F3FA4-- from rodsmiths@imt.net Tue Oct 3 12:25:26 2000 e93HPPG23947 Organization: Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, Ltd. Subject: bamboo school Hello, A customer would like to attend a bamboo rodmaking school this winterpreferably in a warm climate. It could be either on an individual basisor in a school situation. If anyone can help would you please email medirectly? Thanks,Tom Morgan from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Tue Oct 3 19:28:30 2000 e940STG07198 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Springloaded roll pins was reamers --Message-Boundary-23365 Date sent: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:15:26 +0200 Subject: Springloaded roll pins was reamers Jim, I can`t figure out what "springloaded roll pins" are. Can You pleaseexplain? TIA, danny snipped for your enjoyment ;) >>ok attached is a small pic of a roll pin, probably called something else in other parts of the world, but they are "rolled" out of spring steel so when installed they have tension on the hole they are installed in. prevents arbitrary movement and coming undone. --Message-Boundary-23365 The following section of this message contains a file attachmentprepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information -----------File: rollpin.JPGDate: 2 Oct 2000, 18:37Size: 15416 bytes.Type: JPEG-image --Message-Boundary-23365 Tue Oct 3 22:23:40 2000 e943NdG10492 Subject: Guides for Sharpe Scottie? Anyone have a source for the tiny English snake guides on a 6' Scottie4/5wt Midge? Very low profile. TIA Bob from stpete@netten.net Tue Oct 3 23:14:02 2000 e944E1G11489 Tue, 3 Oct 2000 22:27:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... --------------DCDE55F317E2AC3FF08661DF Ralph, Sorry to report but I, too, use the 60-1/2 for my finest shaving. Thiswould mean, of course that YOU must be as screwed up as I am. I lovethe little darling and like all love, there is probably little logicalsupport for my enthusiasm for it. All is lost. Rick C. Ralph W Moon wrote: Timothy wroteralph really did say this.... does. DON'T BELIEVEEVERYTHING YOU HEAR ON THIS LIST. The 60 1/2 is a ...now he is going to bamboo hell. :-) timothy And what, Sir, makes you think I have not already achieved Nirvana. Iam figurtively chained to my planes, and like the bound Promethius,someday from my bonds shall I rise in a fiery flame of a perfectrod.---and then again??? --------------DCDE55F317E2AC3FF08661DF Ralph, I love the little darling and like all love, there is probably little logical Rick C.Ralph W Moon wrote:Timothy wroteralph really did say this.... And what, Sir, makes you think I have not already achieved I am figurtively chained to my planes, and like the bound Promethius,someday from my bonds shall I rise in a fiery flame of a perfect rod.---andthen again??? --------------DCDE55F317E2AC3FF08661DF-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 3 23:28:16 2000 e944SFG11959 21:28:14 PDT Subject: Re: Plane angle again... rick, yes, it has been said we are a mite touched. imean think about it. if we want to go fishing we cango to the store and buy a perfectly good flyrod with alife time garantee. we really are taking the scenicroute around the barn. :- ) timothy --- Rick Crenshaw wrote:Ralph, Sorry to report but I, too, use the 60-1/2 for myfinest shaving. Thiswould mean, of course that YOU must be as screwed upas I am. I lovethe little darling and like all love, there isprobably little logicalsupport for my enthusiasm for it. All is lost. Rick C. Ralph W Moon wrote: ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from zimmer@adams.net Wed Oct 4 05:02:12 2000 e94A2BG16285 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: Re: Rollpins This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C02DC0.E2910720 I hesitate to ask, but is the consensus to use springloaded roll pins in =your forms, instead of steel dowel pins? I am asking because I know =there have been a load of forms built using hardened dowel pins, and are =probably still in use today. Are the springloaded pins a better way? =Randy Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C02DC0.E2910720 I hesitate to ask, but is the consensus to use = roll pins in your forms, instead of steel dowel pins? I am asking = there have been a load of forms built using hardened dowel pins, and are = probably still in use today. Are the springloaded pins a better way? = Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C02DC0.E2910720-- from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Oct 4 05:22:07 2000 e94AM6G16594 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Guides for Sharpe Scottie? Hi Bob, Anglers Workshop in Washington State has them. Let me know ifyou need the phone #. Marty Anyone have a source for the tiny English snake guides on a 6' Scottie4/5wt Midge? Very low profile. TIA Bob from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Oct 4 05:32:21 2000 e94AWKG16923 Subject: Re: Rollpins This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02DBC.BE795C60 I'm using rollpins with no problems at all. I was careful with the fit =of the borehole to the shoulder size of the shoulder bolt, but, using =rollpins, it may be a moot point. Just get as good of a fit there as you =can. I can tell you that, before I installed enough rollpins, the form = Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 4:06 AMSubject: Re: Rollpins I hesitate to ask, but is the consensus to use springloaded roll pins =in your forms, instead of steel dowel pins? I am asking because I know =there have been a load of forms built using hardened dowel pins, and are =probably still in use today. Are the springloaded pins a better way? =Randy Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02DBC.BE795C60 Randy, I'm using rollpins with no problems at = careful with the fit of the borehole to the shoulder size of the = but, using rollpins, it may be a moot point. Just get as good of a fit = Jim ----- Original Message ----- Randy= Sent: Wednesday, October 04, = AMSubject: Re: Rollpins I hesitate to ask, but is the consensus to use = roll pins in your forms, instead of steel dowel pins? I am asking = know there have been a load of forms built using hardened dowel pins, = probably still in use today. Are the springloaded pins a better way? = Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02DBC.BE795C60-- from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed Oct 4 05:35:37 2000 e94AZaG17101 0400 Subject: Fw: Bamboo Rods?!? Thought I would get everyone's thoughts on this Montague Joe----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Rods?!? Hey Joe A friend of mine has an old rod that we may try to restore. It has a labelon it that says "Montague Leaping Brook". At least I think that's what itsays, it's worn. It doesn't have any label for line size, but there aresomethread bands. Two gold bands, then one red, then two gold. Could those Ray from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Oct 4 05:45:44 2000 e94AjhG17356 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:45:41 +0200 Subject: Sv: Rollpins This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C02E02.3C48F340 I have (yet again) a different approach: I use brass dowel pins - as time goes by, the pins are changed as they, =being softer than the form, changedimension due to being worn.. If You use those spring steel pins or =hardened doewel pins, Your forms are worn instead. You thenkeep the dowel/roll pins and change the form:-))) Forms made of steel =are softer than the pins. Brass rod from the scrap yard costsalmost nothing, so I bought a couple of yards - at 10 bucks for all of =it. Should last me for many years. regards, carsten Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Rollpins I hesitate to ask, but is the consensus to use springloaded roll pins =in your forms, instead of steel dowel pins? I am asking because I know =there have been a load of forms built using hardened dowel pins, and are =probably still in use today. Are the springloaded pins a better way? =Randy Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C02E02.3C48F340 I have (yet again) a different =approach: I use brass dowel pins - as time goes by, the pins = as they, being softer than the form, changedimension due to being worn.. If You use those = pins or hardened doewel pins, Your forms are worn instead. You =thenkeep the dowel/roll pins and change the form:-))) = costsalmost nothing, so I bought a couple of yards - at = regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Randy= Sent: Wednesday, October 04, = PMSubject: Re: Rollpins I hesitate to ask, but is the consensus to use = roll pins in your forms, instead of steel dowel pins? I am asking = know there have been a load of forms built using hardened dowel pins, = probably still in use today. Are the springloaded pins a better way? = Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C02E02.3C48F340-- from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Oct 4 06:13:23 2000 e94BDMG17823 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Fw: Bamboo Rods?!? Montague rod co. was the most prolific maker of bamboo rods of alltime. Rods before about 1945 did not mark a line wt. on the rod . Therod company's figured fisherman would be smart enough to figure it outthemselves. The rod you have is probably an HDH (6) or HCH (7). Montaguethroughout their history never designated a line size. BTW it is aMontague Leaping Brook. Marty Thought I would get everyone's thoughts on this Montague Joe----- Original Message -----From: "Ray Wallace" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:43 AMSubject: Bamboo Rods?!? Hey Joe A friend of mine has an old rod that we may try to restore. It has a labelon it that says "Montague Leaping Brook". At least I think that's what itsays, it's worn. It doesn't have any label for line size, but there aresomethread bands. Two gold bands, then one red, then two gold. Could those Ray from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 4 07:53:22 2000 e94CrLG19267 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 07:53:27 -0500 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Plane angle again... I think the basic thread here was that a sharper angle on the iron, makesthis lower angle model less likely to tear out ??? GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 4 08:10:55 2000 e94DAsG19816 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:11:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Rollpins I don't know about better, as they certainly aren't as strong. They are away to get a snug fit, when you have only hand tools to make holes with !They also are more easily replaced. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 4 09:09:21 2000 e94E9IG22096 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 22:09:12 +0800 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 22:09:10 +0800 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... "rod 'akers" That's about it. You modify the the cutting edge on the iron so between itand the actual angle the iron sits in the plane body the cutting angleangle is increased.This is a part of the point I was making re. block planes not really being I admit it is a subjective thing but it seems to me that a very steep edgedoesn't keep as sharp as long as a more acute one and conversly too shallowan angle also blunts quickly.As with all things there is a compromise that works and I think the factoryedge angle is a good compromise for cutting and edge holding.My reason for saying block planes are not ideal is because instead ofaltering the angle the irons are ground to and as a result (I think) havingto go to the water stone or whatever too often it's prob better to alterthe angle the iron itself is set at. That is why I believe the 9 1/2 seemsa better plane to use than the 60 1/2 and is also why I don't think eitheris terribly well suited to the task. They'd prob give better service ifthey were set closer to that of a bench plane and keep the bevel ground asit comes.Go and cut some end grain on hardwood and you'll see the 60 1/2 does amuchbetter job than the 9 1/2 and a bench plane will butcher the job. Tony At 07:58 AM 10/4/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I think the basic thread here was that a sharper angle on the iron, makesthis lower angle model less likely to tear out ??? GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Wed Oct 4 09:16:09 2000 e94EG8G22386 Subject: help creator="4D4F5353" If the following people have not been contacted by Steve Southard wouldyou please send him an e-mail at Butt Larry Blan Richard Tyree Marlene Osburn Harry Boyd Ralph Moon Vic Edwards MID Jack Howell Mike Biondo Terry O'Connor Ray Gould Wayne Geprge Barnes> TipTed Knott Doug Hall Miles Tiernan Jerry Foster Gary Lohkamp Dennis Higham from saweiss@flash.net Wed Oct 4 11:12:54 2000 e94GCrG27216 Subject: logbook: off topic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C02DEB.770ED880 can anyone recommend any flyfishing software for keeping a fishing log?Steve ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C02DEB.770ED880 can anyone recommend anyflyfishing = Steve ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C02DEB.770ED880-- from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Wed Oct 4 13:49:40 2000 e94InYG03226 Subject: Re: Sv: Rollpins e94IneG03227 Subject: Sv: RollpinsDate sent: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:54:30 +0200 If You use those spring steel pins orhardened doewel pins, Your forms are worn instead. how many thousands of rods would one have to make, to wear out a set of forms that are only moved back and forth a few thousandths at a time? Just curious Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Wed Oct 4 14:03:12 2000 e94J3BG03767 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Springloaded roll pins was reamers Date sent: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:10:12 +0200 Subject: Re: Springloaded roll pins was reamers Thanks Jim, Are the stabile enough to hold the form half's together? danny Danny, I can't tell you because I have not completed my forms yet or built a rod with them. All I know is I inquired about them as a method of construction and got an overwhelming "go for it" from the list.As a hobby builder ,I cannot see wear being a factor, , I mean how much do you move the forms when adjusting from one taper to another ? And , also its not like they move at a high rate of speed when adjusting, so I oiled them up , put them in, and away we go. Just playing with the forms and my depth guage, they seem to adjust very nice and not move around.I suppose it's just an other one of those things we could debate about for days, but for me, I used em' , ain't no turnin' back now! Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from billh@inmind.com Wed Oct 4 15:40:11 2000 e94KeAG07520 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:26:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... "rod 'akers" Has any body considered modifying a 9/12 to an even higher angle by shimming or other means? bill hoy At 10:22 AM 10/4/00, Tony Young wrote:.....welding a seems to me that a very steep edgedoesn't keep as sharp as long as a more acute one and conversly tooshallowan angle also blunts quickly.As with all things there is a compromise that works and I think the factoryedge angle is a good compromise for cutting and edge holding.My reason for saying block planes are not ideal is because instead ofaltering the angle the irons are ground to and as a result (I think) havingto go to the water stone or whatever too often it's prob better to alterthe angle the iron itself is set at. That is why I believe the 9 1/2 seemsa better plane to use than the 60 1/2 and is also why I don't think eitheris terribly well suited to the task. They'd prob give better service ifthey were set closer to that of a bench plane and keep the bevel ground asit comes.Go and cut some end grain on hardwood and you'll see the 60 1/2 does amuchbetter job than the 9 1/2 and a bench plane will butcher the job. Tony At 07:58 AM 10/4/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I think the basic thread here was that a sharper angle on the iron, makesthis lower angle model less likely to tear out ??? GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!OY! OY! OY! /*************************************************************************/ from stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed Oct 4 15:57:55 2000 e94KvsG08325 (62.180.215.168) Subject: Hexrod Guide Spacing Hi, It's late here and I have been trying to work out how to use the guidespacing programm supplied with Hexrod. It will be easy, I know; but Icannot for the life of me see what my problem is at the moment. Sorry .......but ...........HELP! Stuart from bob@downandacross.com Wed Oct 4 16:27:56 2000 e94LRuG09461 Subject: PHY --=====================_2628187==_.ALT Hi Guys:Here are my long overdue shots of the PHY article I have. Let me know how they scanned.http://www.downandacross.com/phy160.JPGhttp://www.downandacross.com/phy161.JPGhttp://www.downandacross.com/phy162.JPGhttp://www.downandacross.com/phy163.JPGI know they are big files, but I will improve them as the week goes on. Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_2628187==_.ALT Hi Guys:Here are my long overdue shots of the PHY article I have. Let meknow how they scanned.http://www.downandacross.com/phy160.JPGhttp://www.downandacross.com/phy161.JPGhttp://www.downandacross.com/phy162.JPGhttp://www.downandacross.com/phy163.JPGI know they are big files, but I will improve them as the week goeson. Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_2628187==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 4 17:04:48 2000 e94M4lG10749 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:04:48 -0500 Subject: Re: PHY Great shots Bob ! Great find too ! GMA from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Wed Oct 4 19:44:43 2000 e950igG14415 Subject: Re: PHY Great photos, Man, did you see all the culms? That must be what it like to be wealthy huh? And the heat treating torch is very interesting, Thanks for sharing Bob, great stuff! Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 4 19:54:49 2000 e950smG14919 Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:54:58 -0500 Subject: Re: PHY Paul told me in a letter, that he had bought all that cane before WW II ! GMA from bob@downandacross.com Wed Oct 4 20:06:37 2000 e9516aG15418 Subject: PHY article info Sorry, I should have included this info. This article on Mr. Young was from Fishermen's Digest, first annual edition, edited by Tom McNally. Follet Publishing Company, Chicago, Illinois, 1958. Library of Congress Card Number 58-8696. It is an old anthology of 50's fishing articles. A neat find at the flea market for $10.Hope you like it, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Oct 4 20:33:18 2000 e951XHG16167 Subject: Re: Plane angle again... At 10:22 PM 10/4/00 +0800, Tony Young wrote:That's about it. You modify the the cutting edge on the iron so between itand the actual angle the iron sits in the plane body the cutting angleangle is increased.------------------------ ---> snip >----------------- That is why I believe the 9 1/2 seemsa better plane to use than the 60 1/2 and is also why I don't think eitheris terribly well suited to the task. They'd prob give better service ifthey were set closer to that of a bench plane and keep the bevel ground asit comes.Go and cut some end grain on hardwood and you'll see the 60 1/2 does amuchbetter job than the 9 1/2 and a bench plane will butcher the job. Tony Interesting, reading the old book (1901) "Fly Rods and Fly Tackle" by H.P.Wells, he suggests using a Bailey plane to do final planing. A bit clumsyno doubt! -DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from Collins@dccnet.com Wed Oct 4 21:01:19 2000 e9521IG16823 yoda.dccnet.com Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:01:16 -0700 Subject: Grangers Back in February a list of Granger tapers was posted on the list; 8' 6" Aristocrat, 8' Favorite, 7'6" Special & 7' Aristocrat. I have heard the 8'6" referred to as Parabolic and the 7'6" as fast. Can someone explain the difference in actions of these 4 rods? Are they just different lengths? or are they really different? I have recently completed a Payne 200 and a Young Midge and I'm looking to add a Granger to my stable. While I really like these two rods I have completed I would like something a little faster than the Payne and a little longer than the Yong. Doug from gjm80301@yahoo.com Wed Oct 4 21:51:23 2000 e952pMG17915 2000 19:51:21 PDT Subject: Converting Dickerson 8013 to 3-piece 8' 5 wgt I just finished my first try at this taper and it will be a usefulone. I plan to make future versions in 3 pieces rather than 2. Beyond the hexrod conversion, does anybody have any advice theconversion for this particular taper tp preserve the 2-piece action. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Oct 4 23:14:35 2000 e954EYG19685 Subject: minus one strip OK, I did it. Yup. Screwed up bigtime. Nice move. Way to go. Brokeone of the exactly 12 strips for the two tips. They are, of course, theonly remaining strips from the 24 I got out of the top half of a niceculm with real long spaces between the nodes. In fact, it was so-o-o-onice, I don't have any like it. :-( I have the strips all cut toplaning length and laid out for a three by three node pattern, and theroughed out strips are all heated treated. I do have strips left fromthe butt culm, but the nodes are closer and the spacing doesn't match,but the flaming was done at the same time, so the color match is good. So what now? Ideas, if not sympathy, will be much appreciated. I doubtany of *you* guys have ever done that, but do you have any suggestions even though the nodes don't match up? Cut and prep three new strips from the butt so they match themselves - but the two tips won't quite?The nodeless guys'll like this one: how about if I spliced pieces ofthe butt strip so that their nodes end up where they "oughta"? Onespliced strip any big deal when it's in the tip? Hel-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-lp!! and best regards to all! mac from saweiss@flash.net Wed Oct 4 23:25:07 2000 e954P7G20009 Subject: Re: minus one strip In a similar situation I have used the longest trimmed-off piece to scarf asmall section into the broken strip.Steve OK, I did it. Yup. Screwed up bigtime. Nice move. Way to go. Brokeone of the exactly 12 strips for the two tips. from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Oct 4 23:25:40 2000 e954PdG20082 Subject: Perfectionist Guide Spacing Since I have a "break" in the action so to speak, ;-) here's theguide spacing for the PHY Perfectionist. Strangely enough the way thesethings go sometimes, two of you nice folks sent me spacings off list(thank you, again), and they actually matched! (within a 16th - more orless) So, for the benefit of others interested here's the set that'seasiest to paste in: 5,10-5/8,17-1/8,24-1/2,32-3/8,40-5/8,49,57-1/2,67-1/16 I hope this helps someone else out eventually. I much appreciated thatthey were sent. .....hmmmm....maybe a bamboo "stretcher"" would get those nodes in theright place on that tip strip.... best regards to all, mac from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 4 23:45:50 2000 e954jnG20662 21:45:48 PDT Subject: Re: minus one strip ralph, i have done this. bummer! after wanderingaimlessly around the basement for a while and after myhands quit shaking this is what i did. i selected thetop part of another nice culm, split it up as usualselected three strips from the 3 appropriate sixsections so i had 1,3,5 strips from one culm and 2,4,6strips from another culm. what else can you do? youhate to toss out 11 good strips. oh, i cooked the sixstrips from the second culm prior to picking out thethree that i used. am i explaining clearly what idid?now i have 5 left over strips and i used them invarious projects. i also, like my mentor and teacher,have built a couple of rods and did everything wrongto see what will happen. i mix up splines from diffculms don't match nodes ect. to see what happens. these rods i call my bastard rods. one of these rodsturned into a fine rod that i have fished and loanedout to some of my clumsey friends in a pinch. i knowthat this isn't what any of us like to do but sometimes you have to choke it down and go. what ilearned from building my bastard rods is that nodespacing is important. mixing the splines didn't seemto matter for function if i did it in a systematicway. good luck. let me know what you did. timothy --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:OK, I did it. Yup. Screwed up bigtime. Nice move.Way to go. Brokeone of the exactly 12 strips for the two tips. Theyare, of course, theonly remaining strips from the 24 I got out of thetop half of a niceculm with real long spaces between the nodes. Infact, it was so-o-o-onice, I don't have any like it. :-( I have thestrips all cut toplaning length and laid out for a three by threenode pattern, and theroughed out strips are all heated treated. I dohave strips left fromthe butt culm, but the nodes are closer and thespacing doesn't match,but the flaming was done at the same time, so thecolor match is good. So what now? Ideas, if not sympathy, will be muchappreciated. I doubtany of *you* guys have ever done that, but do youhave any suggestions Add in a butt stripeven though the nodes don't match up? Cut and prepthree new strips from the butt so they match themselves - but the twotips won't quite?The nodeless guys'll like this one: how about if Ispliced pieces ofthe butt strip so that their nodes end up where they"oughta"? Onespliced strip any big deal when it's in the tip? Hel-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-lp!! and best regards to all! mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Oct 5 05:05:24 2000 e95A5NG24555 ;Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:05:18 +0200 Subject: Sv: Sv: Rollpins e95A5NG24556 What we are talking about is sound engineering. You don't make theexpensive/hard to change parts the softer ones. Basic. How many rods? Nobody knows, do they? What we DO know isthat the 60 degree angle is one og the most important thingsabout the fishing poles we are making. Worn forms ruin that angle,so why do the thing wrongly when You can do it right and savea few bucks as well. As for wear not being an important factor: making swelled buttsDO stress the forms. So much in facts that people make specialforms (a steep grove) in order not to tweak the forms. So yes,rodmaking can stress the forms when adjusting them regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Sv: Rollpins From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Sv: RollpinsDate sent: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:54:30 +0200 If You use those spring steel pins orhardened doewel pins, Your forms are worn instead. how many thousands of rods would one have to make, to wear out a set of forms that are only moved back and forth a few thousandths at a time? Just curious Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Oct 5 07:18:21 2000 e95CIKG25734 "'rodmakers '" Subject: RE: minus one strip Ralph -- Wish I could help but I'm one of those nodeless fools. But this reminds meof a question I've been meaning to ask. So far I've only made blond rods andwould be interested in trying some flamed ones. But with a flamed culm mostof the scarfs would show up very clearly because, with the varying shade ofthe bamboo, few scarfs would involve matching tones. Has anyone found awayaround this? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: minus one strip OK, I did it. Yup. Screwed up bigtime. from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Thu Oct 5 07:27:37 2000 e95CRbG25922 Subject: Swelled butts; was Sv: Rollpins e95CRbG25923 At 8:17 AM +0200 on 10/5/00, Carsten Jorgensen wrote about Sv: Sv:Rollpins As for wear not being an important factor: making swelled buttsDO stress the forms. So much in facts that people make specialforms (a steep grove) in order not to tweak the forms. So yes,rodmaking can stress the forms when adjusting them This is something I don't understand...why put a swelled butt on a rod? Is it done for the aesthetics (looks neat), does it make it easier to install a cork handle and reel seat, is it for strength...? How much wider is the swelled part of the strip? For example, a Sir D measures .300 at the butt end of the standard taper, which means the individual strips are .173 inches across the flat - so how much wider would this be made if a swelled butt was desired? Thanks,Claude from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Oct 5 07:50:39 2000 e95CocG26410 FAA16572; Subject: Re: minus one strip Well, Gooda' morning, mr. bear! "... wandering aimlessly around the basement for a while and after myhands quit shaking... Yah! that about describes it! I like your approach to the solution, Timothy, thanks for the idea. Iguess I had tunnel vision about only replacing the three strips of onetip. But your approach of all SIX new "even" strips (in my case) seemslike the cleanest approach to bail out with at this point. Since I have11 strips left from the butt culm, I could use 6 strips from those andhave color match, etc. The node spacing would be closer than the "odd"strips, but I don't think that would be all so obvious, and the tipswould match each other, which is important to me. I don't think the scarfing suggestions will work well in this situation,since I forgot to mention that I broke the strip on just about the lastpass, and within 8 - 10" of the tip, so it's only like .060" to workwith, AND it broke right through a node. The other approach that seemsviable at this point, though the list is always very helpful and younever know what might turn up, is to take two of the butt pieces andsplice them such that two nodes are properly spaced. If three nodesshow in the strip then I'd have to do two splices, I suppose. I'm still thinkin' on it. I feel better about 6 new strips, strengthand function- wise, but one or two splices seems like a lot less work,and the nodeless guys have rods full of splices, so it's probably not abig deal to have one or two in one strip, I suppose. Thank you to everyone for the suggestions (and sympathy) you've offered. mac timothy troester wrote: ralph, i have done this. bummer! after wanderingaimlessly around the basement for a while and after myhands quit shaking this is what i did. i selected thetop part of another nice culm, split it up as usualselected three strips from the 3 appropriate sixsections so i had 1,3,5 strips from one culm and 2,4,6strips from another culm. what else can you do? youhate to toss out 11 good strips. oh, i cooked the sixstrips from the second culm prior to picking out thethree that i used. am i explaining clearly what idid?now i have 5 left over strips and i used them invarious projects. i also, like my mentor and teacher,have built a couple of rods and did everything wrongto see what will happen. i mix up splines from diffculms don't match nodes ect. to see what happens.these rods i call my bastard rods. one of these rodsturned into a fine rod that i have fished and loanedout to some of my clumsey friends in a pinch. i knowthat this isn't what any of us like to do but sometimes you have to choke it down and go. what ilearned from building my bastard rods is that nodespacing is important. mixing the splines didn't seemto matter for function if i did it in a systematicway. good luck. let me know what you did. timothy --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:OK, I did it. Yup. Screwed up bigtime. Nice move.Way to go. Brokeone of the exactly 12 strips for the two tips. Theyare, of course, theonly remaining strips from the 24 I got out of thetop half of a niceculm with real long spaces between the nodes. Infact, it was so-o-o-onice, I don't have any like it. :-( I have thestrips all cut toplaning length and laid out for a three by threenode pattern, and theroughed out strips are all heated treated. I dohave strips left fromthe butt culm, but the nodes are closer and thespacing doesn't match,but the flaming was done at the same time, so thecolor match is good. So what now? Ideas, if not sympathy, will be muchappreciated. I doubtany of *you* guys have ever done that, but do youhave any suggestions Add in a butt stripeven though the nodes don't match up? Cut and prepthree new strips from the butt so they match themselves - but the twotips won't quite?The nodeless guys'll like this one: how about if Ispliced pieces ofthe butt strip so that their nodes end up where they"oughta"? Onespliced strip any big deal when it's in the tip? Hel-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-lp!! and best regards to all! mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 5 08:39:56 2000 e95DdtG28008 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:40:08 -0500 Subject: Re: minus one strip How bad was the break ? What about scarfing it ? GMA from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Oct 5 08:59:51 2000 e95DxoG28677 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: PHY That particular torch was the much talked about "ring of fire".chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:32 PM Subject: Re: PHY Great photos, Man, did you see all the culms? That must be what it like to be wealthy huh? And the heat treating torch is very interesting, Thanks for sharing Bob, great stuff! Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Thu Oct 5 09:06:58 2000 e95E6vG29037 Subject: Guide spacing I have a beginners question about guide spacing. I notice that the general rule seems to be one guide for each foot or rod section plus the tip top. Do any of you do any kind of "load distiribution" test as to find proper placement of the guides? When assembling pl@stic rod's, I start with blank makers recomendation but then, I have a rig set up to hold the rod and apply a weight to the line to cause the rod to flex, and move the guides as needed to get the line to follow the curve or action of the blank.This can greatly increase the casting performance of the rod and sometimes you even have to add an extra guide to get things working properly. I suppose that if you are following anothers tried and true, you might get close just by measurments, but to different culms made into the same taper act similar enough or should they be optimized? I have notice in graphite rod that even having two of the same blanks, they don't always like the guides in the same place.One of the details that seperate us custom guys from the production builder, and was wandering if it would apply to cane construction as well. Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Thu Oct 5 09:07:02 2000 e95E71G29042 Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Rollpins e95E72G29043 Subject: Sv: Sv: RollpinsDate sent: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:17:04 +0200 What we are talking about is sound engineering. You don't make theexpensive/hard to change parts the softer ones. Basic. As for wear not being an important factor: making swelled buttsDO stress the forms. carsten See, now my amature status shows , as I had not thought of swelled butts, and I can see how putting such a steep angle could cause the roll pins to "dig in " some. Is that way some who make swelled butts, make a swell in groove in the forms? from dpizza@coho.net Thu Oct 5 09:12:00 2000 e95EBxG29416 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:11:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Guide spacing I was wondering that also, BUT didn't want to ask a "green" question. Thisis the only way I have ever installed guides, and I have only made plasticrods. Of course I am STILL working on cane rods one and two. Thanks-----Original Message----- Subject: Guide spacing I have a beginners question about guide spacing. I notice that thegeneral rule seems to be one guide for each foot or rod sectionplus the tip top. Do any of you do any kind of "load distiribution"test as to find proper placement of the guides? When assemblingpl@stic rod's, I start with blank makers recomendation but then, Ihave a rig set up to hold the rod and apply a weight to the line tocause the rod to flex, and move the guides as needed to get theline to follow the curve or action of the blank.This can greatlyincrease the casting performance of the rod and sometimes youeven have to add an extra guide to get things working properly. Isuppose that if you are following anothers tried and true, you mightget close just by measurments, but to different culms made intothe same taper act similar enough or should they be optimized? Ihave notice in graphite rod that even having two of the sameblanks, they don't always like the guides in the same place.One ofthe details that seperate us custom guys from the productionbuilder, and was wandering if it would apply to cane constructionas well. Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 5 09:18:10 2000 e95EIAG29832 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:18:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide spacing Wayne C. says one guide for each foot, PLUS one more, and the tip top. Notime to try his Hexrod guide spacing yet, but he says add 9/16' to eachguide's spacing. I plan to just make a chart for each rod length. GMA from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 10:10:22 2000 e95FALG01975 2000 08:10:15 PDT Subject: Re: Guide spacing Okay, I'll admit it, I do the same thing. It results in fairlyradically different spacings. For example, my 5 wgt Cattanach force"8' has very differnt spacing rom the 8' 5wgt 8013 I just completed. --- dpizza wrote:I was wondering that also, BUT didn't want to ask a "green"question. Thisis the only way I have ever installed guides, and I have only madeplasticrods. Of course I am STILL working on cane rods one and two. Thanks-----Original Message-----From: Jim Flinchbaugh Date: Thursday, October 05, 2000 7:07 AMSubject: Guide spacing I have a beginners question about guide spacing. I notice that thegeneral rule seems to be one guide for each foot or rod sectionplus the tip top. Do any of you do any kind of "load distiribution"test as to find proper placement of the guides? When assemblingpl@stic rod's, I start with blank makers recomendation but then, Ihave a rig set up to hold the rod and apply a weight to the line tocause the rod to flex, and move the guides as needed to get theline to follow the curve or action of the blank.This can greatlyincrease the casting performance of the rod and sometimes youeven have to add an extra guide to get things working properly. Isuppose that if you are following anothers tried and true, youmightget close just by measurments, but to different culms made intothe same taper act similar enough or should they be optimized? Ihave notice in graphite rod that even having two of the sameblanks, they don't always like the guides in the same place.One ofthe details that seperate us custom guys from the productionbuilder, and was wandering if it would apply to cane constructionas well. Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Thu Oct 5 11:40:32 2000 e95GeVG05453 Subject: Guide Spacing: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C02ECA.52312D80 Hi, Some other consideration are, splining the blank, position of the 1ststripping guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank,induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. Ithought I would just put the other parameters up for discussion. Upstreamalways, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C02ECA.52312D80 Hi, Some = consideration are, splining the blank, position of the = person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank, induce drag, = drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. I thought I would just put = other parameters up for discussion. Upstream always, =Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C02ECA.52312D80-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 5 12:01:15 2000 e95H1EG06286 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:59:35 -0700 Subject: Re: minus one strip e95H1FG06287 Hi Mac, I can think of about five choices, and maybe there are others I'm missing. 1) Find left over bamboo with an identical span in node spacing and split outa strip. 2) Use a strip that isn't matched exactly and live with the difference. Itwould be like a Granger "Special" rather then a "Favorite", is there really anyperceivable difference in the way the rods cast if of the same taper? 3) Find another culm and split out six new strips so that when finished thetips all look the same, assuming your heat treating coloration comes outequal. Here you would be breaking the "rod from the same culm" rule. Ofcourse in the end you may have a "better" rod. 4) You could make a single tip rod and have plenty of extra strips to breakalong the way. 5) Start all over on a two tip rod. If the rod were my own I would go with choices 1-4. If the rod was forsomeone who was paying for it under the impression that "everything is fromthe same culm", then I would start over on that persons rod. Chris Ralph MacKenzie 10/04/00 09:13PM >>>OK, I did it. Yup. Screwed up bigtime. Nice move. Way to go. Brokeone of the exactly 12 strips for the two tips. They are, of course, theonly remaining strips from the 24 I got out of the top half of a niceculm with real long spaces between the nodes. In fact, it was so-o-o-onice, I don't have any like it. :-( I have the strips all cut toplaning length and laid out for a three by three node pattern, and theroughed out strips are all heated treated. I do have strips left fromthe butt culm, but the nodes are closer and the spacing doesn't match,but the flaming was done at the same time, so the color match is good. So what now? Ideas, if not sympathy, will be much appreciated. I doubtany of *you* guys have ever done that, but do you have any suggestions even though the nodes don't match up? Cut and prep three new strips from the butt so they match themselves - but the two tips won't quite?The nodeless guys'll like this one: how about if I spliced pieces ofthe butt strip so that their nodes end up where they "oughta"? Onespliced strip any big deal when it's in the tip? Hel-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-lp!! and best regards to all! mac from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Oct 5 12:06:56 2000 [62.253.162.47] (may be forged)) e95H6pG06568 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:06:46 +0100 Subject: Re: Guide spacing I use Cattanchs programme and for me it works really well.......Paul Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: I have a beginners question about guide spacing. I notice that thegeneral rule seems to be one guide for each foot or rod sectionplus the tip top. Do any of you do any kind of "load distiribution"test as to find proper placement of the guides? When assemblingpl@stic rod's, I start with blank makers recomendation but then, Ihave a rig set up to hold the rod and apply a weight to the line tocause the rod to flex, and move the guides as needed to get theline to follow the curve or action of the blank.This can greatlyincrease the casting performance of the rod and sometimes youeven have to add an extra guide to get things working properly. Isuppose that if you are following anothers tried and true, you mightget close just by measurments, but to different culms made intothe same taper act similar enough or should they be optimized? Ihave notice in graphite rod that even having two of the sameblanks, they don't always like the guides in the same place.One ofthe details that seperate us custom guys from the productionbuilder, and was wandering if it would apply to cane constructionas well. Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 5 12:33:08 2000 e95HX7G07564 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 10:30:11 -0700 Subject: Bamboo Variation e95HX8G07565 The "minus one strip" thread reminds me of another philisophical question. Other then the convenience of making one rod at a time from one culm at atime, and the marketing hype of "strips from the same culm" pitch what arethe real drawbacks to mixing strips from various culms. Assuming a persons heat treating methods produce a similar color and thebamboo is otherwise comparable in diameter and appearance. If a person makes two rods of the same taper and techniques using 3x3 nodespacing and they use three strips from each culm for each rod section thenwouldn't the two rods likely have a more consistent and predictable "feel" tothem as opposed to two rods made from two differenent culms. I assumesince bamboo is a natural material that there is a variation in strength andmemory of the fibers from one culm to the next. If one culm is a littlesofter then the other, the net result is two equal rods where the softerstrips sit between the stronger strips, rather then one softer rod and onestronger rod. Predictablity. You could apply this to three culms and 2x2x2 node spacing. The three rodswould likely be more consistent in their action when compared side by side. Right? Wrong? Who Cares? Chris from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Oct 5 12:44:52 2000 e95HipG08073 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:44:49 +0200 Subject: Sv: Swelled butts; was Sv: Rollpins e95HiqG08076 Hi Claude Swelled Butts (SB) are made for two reasons: aesthetics and aesthetics.They DO look nice when done right: as much swell as possible over as shortpiece of rod as possible. Some make an extra station on the form, whichmeansYou tweak the form over a 2,5 inch piece of it, just above the station wherethe handle is gong to be. A guess: a "Sir D" would be a good one to try a SB on. Although this is a rodwith a stiff butt, a SB would still affect the action of the rod, I'd say. As ofhow much increase of taper in order to constitute a SB, it is a matter oftaste andability of the form: an additional 0.1 inch over 2,5 inch of rod is what I'd go If You really want to explore the SB, make an extra form with a very steepgrove regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Swelled butts; was Sv: Rollpins At 8:17 AM +0200 on 10/5/00, Carsten Jorgensen wrote about Sv: Sv:Rollpins As for wear not being an important factor: making swelled buttsDO stress the forms. So much in facts that people make specialforms (a steep grove) in order not to tweak the forms. So yes,rodmaking can stress the forms when adjusting them This is something I don't understand...why put a swelled butt on a rod? Is it done for the aesthetics (looks neat), does it make it easier to install a cork handle and reel seat, is it for strength...? How much wider is the swelled part of the strip? For example, a Sir D measures .300 at the butt end of the standard taper, which means the individual strips are .173 inches across the flat - so how much wider would this be made if a swelled butt was desired? Thanks,Claude from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Oct 5 12:55:38 2000 e95HtbG08731 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:55:36 +0200 Subject: Sv: Guide spacing e95HtcG08732 Your previous statement of being an amateur most certainlydo not apply. The below mentioned is VERY pro an dead on.I urge every one to copy Your statement and read it justbefore putting rings on a bamboo rod. I know I will. regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Guide spacing I have a beginners question about guide spacing. I notice that the general rule seems to be one guide for each foot or rod section plus the tip top. Do any of you do any kind of "load distiribution" test as to find proper placement of the guides? When assembling pl@stic rod's, I start with blank makers recomendation but then, I have a rig set up to hold the rod and apply a weight to the line to cause the rod to flex, and move the guides as needed to get the line to follow the curve or action of the blank.This can greatly increase the casting performance of the rod and sometimes you even have to add an extra guide to get things working properly. I suppose that if you are following anothers tried and true, you might get close just by measurments, but to different culms made into the same taper act similar enough or should they be optimized? I have notice in graphite rod that even having two of the same blanks, they don't always like the guides in the same place.One of the details that seperate us custom guys from the production builder, and was wandering if it would apply to cane construction as well. Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 12:57:20 2000 e95HvJG08882 10:57:18 PDT Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation chris, i'll go one further...three rods from the sameculm wouldn't nessacarily be identical. --- CHRISTOPHER MCDOWELL wrote:The "minus one strip" thread reminds me of anotherphilisophical question. Other then the convenience of making one rod at atime from one culm at a time, and the marketing hypeof "strips from the same culm" pitch what are thereal drawbacks to mixing strips from various culms. Assuming a persons heat treating methods produce asimilar color and the bamboo is otherwise comparablein diameter and appearance. If a person makes two rods of the same taper andtechniques using 3x3 node spacing and they use threestrips from each culm for each rod section thenwouldn't the two rods likely have a more consistentand predictable "feel" to them as opposed to tworods made from two differenent culms. I assumesince bamboo is a natural material that there is avariation in strength and memory of the fibers fromone culm to the next. If one culm is a littlesofter then the other, the net result is two equalrods where the softer strips sit between thestronger strips, rather then one softer rod and onestronger rod. Predictablity. You could apply this to three culms and 2x2x2 nodespacing. The three rods would likely be moreconsistent in their action when compared side byside. Right? Wrong? Who Cares? Chris ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Shadow357_us@hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 15:00:37 2000 e95K0bG12690 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:00:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: =_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EE5.5BA06280" FILETIME=[EA38BCB0:01C02F06] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EE5.5BA06280 Hello, There is no "induce", (induced drag) because there is no lift produced. =And the relationship between parasitic drag and guide spacing is so =small that it should not even be considered. Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:46 PMSubject: Guide Spacing: Hi, Some other consideration are, splining the blank, position of the 1st =stripping guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank, =induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. I =thought I would just put the other parameters up for discussion. =Upstream always, Tim ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EE5.5BA06280 Hello, There is no "induce", = because there is no lift produced. And the relationship between = considered. ----- Original Message ----- Tim Doughty Sent: Thursday, October 05, = PM Subject: GuideSpacing: Hi, Some = consideration are, splining the blank, position of the = guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank, induce = parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. I thought I = Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EE5.5BA06280-- from Shadow357_us@hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 15:08:07 2000 e95K86G13113 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:07:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation FILETIME=[F412C040:01C02F07] "If a person makes two rods of the same taper and techniques using 3x3nodespacing and they use three strips from each culm for each rod section thenwouldn't the two rods likely have a more consistent and predictable "feel"to them as opposed to two rods made from two differenent culms." Yes! You would have two rods very much alike. But why? I would be moreintrested in having the six strips in one rod "consistent and predictable." ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Variation The "minus one strip" thread reminds me of another philisophical question. Other then the convenience of making one rod at a time from one culm at atime, and the marketing hype of "strips from the same culm" pitch what arethe real drawbacks to mixing strips from various culms. Assuming a persons heat treating methods produce a similar color and thebamboo is otherwise comparable in diameter and appearance. If a person makes two rods of the same taper and techniques using 3x3nodespacing and they use three strips from each culm for each rod section thenwouldn't the two rods likely have a more consistent and predictable "feel"to them as opposed to two rods made from two differenent culms. I assumesince bamboo is a natural material that there is a variation in strength andmemory of the fibers from one culm to the next. If one culm is a littlesofter then the other, the net result is two equal rods where the softerstrips sit between the stronger strips, rather then one softer rod and onestronger rod. Predictablity. You could apply this to three culms and 2x2x2 node spacing. The threerods would likely be more consistent in their action when compared side byside. Right? Wrong? Who Cares? Chris from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Thu Oct 5 15:16:40 2000 e95KGdG14275 Subject: RE: Guide Spacing: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02EE8.83AB35E0 There is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter a surface, i.e.,flex a blank in the two planes, and the line moving over the blank that isinduced. Parasitic is the blank, guides, grip, and reelseat at rest. Youknow fluid motion and all. Upstream always, Tim. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: Hello, There is no "induce", (induced drag) because there is no lift produced.And the relationship between parasitic drag and guide spacing is so smallthat it should not even be considered.----- Original Message -----From: Tim Doughty Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:46 PMSubject: Guide Spacing: Hi, Some other consideration are, splining the blank, position of the 1ststripping guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank,induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. Ithought I would just put the other parameters up for discussion. Upstreamalways, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02EE8.83AB35E0 is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter a surface, i.e., flex = in the two planes, and the line moving over the blank that is induced. = is the blank, guides, grip, and reelseat at rest. You know fluid motion = Upstream always, Tim. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ShadowSent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 = Spacing:Hello, There is no "induce", = because there is no lift produced. And the relationship between = considered. ----- Original Message ----- Tim Doughty Sent: Thursday, October 05, = PMSubject: Guide Spacing: Hi, consideration are, splining the blank, position of the = guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank, induce = parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. I thought I = Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02EE8.83AB35E0-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 5 15:38:12 2000 e95KcBG15519 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:32:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation e95KcCG15524 In order to fully utilize all of the excess bamboo generated in rodmaking overa period of time, particularly that in a group of rods of the sameconfiguration. Chris Yes! You would have two rods very much alike. But why? I would be moreintrested in having the six strips in one rod "consistent and predictable.""The Shadow" 10/05/00 01:07PM >>> "If a person makes two rods of the same taper and techniques using 3x3nodespacing and they use three strips from each culm for each rod section thenwouldn't the two rods likely have a more consistent and predictable "feel"to them as opposed to two rods made from two differenent culms." ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Variation The "minus one strip" thread reminds me of another philisophical question. Other then the convenience of making one rod at a time from one culm at atime, and the marketing hype of "strips from the same culm" pitch what arethe real drawbacks to mixing strips from various culms. Assuming a persons heat treating methods produce a similar color and thebamboo is otherwise comparable in diameter and appearance. If a person makes two rods of the same taper and techniques using 3x3nodespacing and they use three strips from each culm for each rod section thenwouldn't the two rods likely have a more consistent and predictable "feel"to them as opposed to two rods made from two differenent culms. I assumesince bamboo is a natural material that there is a variation in strength andmemory of the fibers from one culm to the next. If one culm is a littlesofter then the other, the net result is two equal rods where the softerstrips sit between the stronger strips, rather then one softer rod and onestronger rod. Predictablity. You could apply this to three culms and 2x2x2 node spacing. The threerods would likely be more consistent in their action when compared side byside. Right? Wrong? Who Cares? Chris from Shadow357_us@hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 16:58:19 2000 e95LwIG20379 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:58:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: =_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EF5.C99F4F20" FILETIME=[5B1FFC30:01C02F17] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EF5.C99F4F20 There indeed is no induced drag. The terms "induced drag" and "parasitic =drag" are used to describe the effects of an aircraft moving thru a =fluid, air. Going back to aerodynamics 101; Induced drag is produced =when lift is produced. The more lift, the more induced drag. The source =of induced drag is the wing tip vorticies. Parasitic drag is produced by =the shape of non-lift producing parts of the aircraft. Right angles in =the skin of the aircraft produce the most parasitic drag. At least thats = Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:22 PMSubject: RE: Guide Spacing: There is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter a surface, =i.e., flex a blank in the two planes, and the line moving over the blank =that is induced. Parasitic is the blank, guides, grip, and reelseat at =rest. You know fluid motion and all. Upstream always, Tim. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: Hello, There is no "induce", (induced drag) because there is no lift =produced. And the relationship between parasitic drag and guide spacing =is so small that it should not even be considered. Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:46 PMSubject: Guide Spacing: Hi, Some other consideration are, splining the blank, position of the =1st stripping guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to =blank, induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible =shoot. I thought I would just put the other parameters up for =discussion. Upstream always, Tim ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EF5.C99F4F20 There= induced drag. The terms "induced drag" and "parasitic drag" are used to = to aerodynamics 101; Induced drag is produced when lift is produced. The = vorticies. Parasitic drag is produced by the shape of = parts of the aircraft. Right angles in the skin of the aircraft produce = ----- Original Message ----- Tim Doughty Sent: Thursday, October 05, = PMSubject: RE: Guide =Spacing: There is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter a = i.e., flex a blank in the two planes, and the line moving over the = is induced. Parasitic is the blank, guides, grip, and reelseat at = know fluid motion and all. Upstream always, Tim. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= ShadowSent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 = Spacing:Hello, There is no "induce", = drag) because there is no lift produced. And the relationship = parasitic drag and guide spacing is so small that it should not even = considered. ----- Original Message ----- = Tim Doughty = Sent: Thursday, October 05, = 12:46 PMSubject: Guide =Spacing: Hi, consideration are, splining the blank, position of the = guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank, = parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. I thought = Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker = ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C02EF5.C99F4F20-- from Shadow357_us@hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 17:03:34 2000 e95M3XG20687 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:03:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation FILETIME=[17055580:01C02F18] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C02EF6.867DD580 ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C02EF6.867DD580 Oh! Sorry! I should have read the whole thread. Where The Shadow goes no one knows! Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:17 PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Variation Yes! You would have two rods very much alike. But why? I would be =moreintrested in having the six strips in one rod "consistent and =predictable." ...so would we all, but that answer was spawned by Ralph's dilemna of =having broken one strip and not having a spare strip to replace it. I =think in Ralph's situation, he would be just fine using three strips =each from two different culms, so he could still have a 2 tip rod. I =would call it different if the rod were for a customer, but that =particular rod is for his personal use. Just curious... who are you... no signature... the mysterious "Shadow" =name! LOL Do we know you from the list or from elsewhere and you have =done something smart, like get an ANON addy for controversial subjects? =Wish I had thought of that, cause I sure do get some personal =nasty-grams over some of the non-conventional things I post! LOL Later,BobR.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C02EF6.867DD580 BODY {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 8em; COLOR: #000000; FONT- FAMILY:arial} Oh! Sorry! I should have = thread. Where The Shadow goesno = knows! ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Sent: Thursday, October 05, = PMSubject: Re: Bamboo =Variation predictable."...so would we all, but that answer was spawned by Ralph's = having broken one strip and not having a spare strip to replace = think in Ralph's situation, he would be just fine using three strips = different if the rod were for a customer, but that particular rod is = personal use. Just curious... who are you... no signature... the mysterious = done something smart, like get an ANON addy for controversial = Wish I had thought of that, cause I sure do get some personal = some of the non-conventional things I post! LOL Later, Bamboo = Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm= ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C02EF6.867DD580-- ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C02EF6.867DD580 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------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C02EF6.867DD580-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 5 17:13:24 2000 e95MDNG21270 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:10:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation e95MDNG21271 Everett??? Is that you??? Chris "The Shadow" 10/05/00 03:03PM >>>Oh! Sorry! I should have read the whole thread. Where The Shadow goes no one knows!----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:17 PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Variation Yes! You would have two rods very much alike. But why? I would be moreintrested in having the six strips in one rod "consistent and predictable." ...so would we all, but that answer was spawned by Ralph's dilemna of havingbroken one strip and not having a spare strip to replace it. I think in Ralph'ssituation, he would be just fine using three strips each from two differentculms, so he could still have a 2 tip rod. I would call it different if the rodwere for a customer, but that particular rod is for his personal use. Just curious... who are you... no signature... the mysterious "Shadow" name!LOL Do we know you from the list or from elsewhere and you have donesomething smart, like get an ANON addy for controversial subjects? Wish Ihad thought of that, cause I sure do get some personal nasty-grams oversome of the non-conventional things I post! LOL Later,BobR.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 18:03:33 2000 e95N3XG23636 gate.com (Bill Fink))Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation chris, i'll go one further...three rods from the sameculm wouldn't nessacarily be identical. --- CHRISTOPHER MCDOWELL wrote:The "minus one strip" thread reminds me of anotherphilisophical question. Other then the convenience of making one rod at atime from one culm at a time, and the marketing hypeof "strips from the same culm" pitch what are thereal drawbacks to mixing strips from various culms. Assuming a persons heat treating methods produce asimilar color and the bamboo is otherwise comparablein diameter and appearance. If a person makes two rods of the same taper andtechniques using 3x3 node spacing and they use threestrips from each culm for each rod section thenwouldn't the two rods likely have a more consistentand predictable "feel" to them as opposed to tworods made from two differenent culms. I assumesince bamboo is a natural material that there is avariation in strength and memory of the fibers fromone culm to the next. If one culm is a littlesofter then the other, the net result is two equalrods where the softer strips sit between thestronger strips, rather then one softer rod and onestronger rod. Predictablity. You could apply this to three culms and 2x2x2 nodespacing. The three rods would likely be moreconsistent in their action when compared side byside. Right? Wrong? Who Cares? Chris To Chris and others,Well said. I make only nodeless and I don't give a hoot what culm theindividual segments are from as long as they match up in power fiberdensity. In rod performance it matters not. There seems to be a lot ofmythology in this rod making world. Let's all do our own thing and have fununder the motto of: It Works For Me. Bill from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Thu Oct 5 18:57:10 2000 e95Nv9G25306 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:56:26 -0400 Subject: RE: Guide Spacing: for the SHADOW This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C02F07.506BEA20 Any object in motion has a drag profile although they are much moreefficient if they happen to be a foil. rocks will fly if power overcomedrag. There has been quite a few articles in the trade about lowing theblank profiles to reduce vibration and to make the blank move moreefficiently through the air or fluid. Perhaps these are bad terms to use todescribe this action but If you have better terms please let me know, I amall for learning. A test you might try is to take two cane rods and guidethe first conventionally and take the second one and guide it with singlefoot stripping guides, and let me know which one will cast more efficientlyand further, and what has changed. Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: There indeed is no induced drag. The terms "induced drag" and "parasiticdrag" are used to describe the effects of an aircraft moving thru a fluid,air. Going back to aerodynamics 101; Induced drag is produced when lift isproduced. The more lift, the more induced drag. The source of induced dragis the wing tip vorticies. Parasitic drag is produced by the shape ofnon- lift producing parts of the aircraft. Right angles in the skin of theaircraft produce the most parasitic drag. At least thats the way I have beenteaching it for the last 24 years.----- Original Message -----From: Tim Doughty Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:22 PMSubject: RE: Guide Spacing: There is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter a surface,i.e., flex a blank in the two planes, and the line moving over the blankthat is induced. Parasitic is the blank, guides, grip, and reelseat at rest.You know fluid motion and all. Upstream always, Tim. Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: Hello, There is no "induce", (induced drag) because there is no liftproduced. And the relationship between parasitic drag and guide spacing isso small that it should not even be considered.----- Original Message -----From: Tim Doughty Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:46 PMSubject: Guide Spacing: Hi, Some other consideration are, splining the blank, position of the1st stripping guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to blank,induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible shoot. Ithought I would just put the other parameters up for discussion. Upstreamalways, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C02F07.506BEA20 object in motion has a drag profile although they are much more = they happen to be a foil. rocks will fly if power overcome drag. There = quite a few articles in the trade about lowing the blank profiles to = vibration and to make the blank move more efficiently through the air or = better terms please let me know, I am all for learning. A test you might = to take two cane rods and guide the first conventionally and take the = and guide it with single foot stripping guides, and let me know which = cast more efficiently and further, and what has changed. Upstream = Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ShadowSent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 5:58 = Spacing:There = induced drag. The terms "induced drag" and "parasitic drag" are used = is produced. The more lift, the more induced drag. The source of = ----- Original Message ----- Tim Doughty Sent: Thursday, October 05, = PMSubject: RE: Guide =Spacing: There is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter a = i.e., flex a blank in the two planes, and the line moving over the = that is induced. Parasitic is the blank, guides, grip, and reelseat = You know fluid motion and all. Upstream always, =Tim. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= ShadowSent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 = Spacing:Hello, There is no "induce",= drag) because there is no lift produced. And the relationship = parasitic drag and guide spacing is so small that it should not = considered. ----- Original Message ----- = Tim Doughty = Sent: Thursday, October = 12:46 PMSubject: Guide =Spacing: Hi, to blank, induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best = discussion. Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker = ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C02F07.506BEA20-- from Shadow357_us@hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 19:41:11 2000 e960fBG26931 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:41:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: for the SHADOW =_NextPart_000_003F_01C02F0C.8DB2EB40" FILETIME=[1C1FC8A0:01C02F2E] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C02F0C.8DB2EB40 The term "induced drag" isn't an appropriate term to use. However the =term parasitic drag is right on the money. Both are aeronautical terms. =Parasitic drag is produced by the shape of non-lift producing parts of =the aircraft or in this case the bamboo rod. Right angles in the skin of =the aircraft or the bamboo rod produce the most parasitic drag. I don't =think anyone wants to make a round bamboo rod, but maybe you could make=it have a smaller cross section. Lets see... if heat treating stiffens. =I wonder what a black rod would look like. Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:03 PMSubject: RE: Guide Spacing: for the SHADOW Any object in motion has a drag profile although they are much more =efficient if they happen to be a foil. rocks will fly if power overcome =drag. There has been quite a few articles in the trade about lowing the =blank profiles to reduce vibration and to make the blank move more =efficiently through the air or fluid. Perhaps these are bad terms to use =to describe this action but If you have better terms please let me know, =I am all for learning. A test you might try is to take two cane rods and =guide the first conventionally and take the second one and guide it with =single foot stripping guides, and let me know which one will cast more =efficiently and further, and what has changed. Upstream always, Tim -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: There indeed is no induced drag. The terms "induced drag" and ="parasitic drag" are used to describe the effects of an aircraft moving =thru a fluid, air. Going back to aerodynamics 101; Induced drag is =produced when lift is produced. The more lift, the more induced drag. =The source of induced drag is the wing tip vorticies. Parasitic drag is =produced by the shape of non-lift producing parts of the aircraft. Right =angles in the skin of the aircraft produce the most parasitic drag. At = Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:22 PMSubject: RE: Guide Spacing: There is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter a =surface, i.e., flex a blank in the two planes, and the line moving over =the blank that is induced. Parasitic is the blank, guides, grip, and =reelseat at rest. You know fluid motion and all. Upstream always, Tim. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: Hello, There is no "induce", (induced drag) because there is no lift =produced. And the relationship between parasitic drag and guide spacing =is so small that it should not even be considered. Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:46 PMSubject: Guide Spacing: Hi, Some other consideration are, splining the blank, position of =the 1st stripping guide, person psychical reach, transition from reel to =blank, induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best possible =shoot. I thought I would just put the other parameters up for =discussion. Upstream always, Tim ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C02F0C.8DB2EB40 The term "induced drag"= appropriate term to use. However the term parasitic drag is right on the = Both are aeronautical terms. Parasitic drag is = bamboo rod. Right angles in the skin of the aircraft or the bamboo = produce the most parasitic drag. I don't = wants to make a round bamboo rod, but maybe you could make it have a = cross section. Lets see... if heat treating stiffens. I wonder what a = would look like. ----- Original Message ----- Tim Doughty Shadow357_us@hotmail.com = Sent: Thursday, October 05, = PMSubject: RE: Guide Spacing: for = SHADOW object in motion has a drag profile although they are much more = they happen to be a foil. rocks will fly if power overcome drag. There = been quite a few articles in the trade about lowing the blank profiles = reduce vibration and to make the blank move more efficiently through = or fluid. Perhaps these are bad terms to use to describe = If you have better terms please let me know, I am all for learning. A = might try is to take two cane rods and guide the first conventionally = the second one and guide it with single foot stripping guides, and let = which one will cast more efficiently and further, and what has = Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker ShadowSent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 5:58 = Spacing:There = induced drag. The terms "induced drag" and "parasitic drag" are used = is produced. The more lift, the more induced drag. The source of = drag is the wing tip vorticies. Parasitic drag is produced by the = ----- Original Message ----- = Tim Doughty = Sent: Thursday, October 05, = PMSubject: RE: Guide =Spacing: There is indeed induced drag, any time you more or alter = i.e., flex a blank in the two planes, and the line moving over the = that is induced. Parasitic is the blank, guides, grip, and = Tim. Upstream Custom Rods Tim Doughty Rodmaker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= = ShadowSent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:00 = Spacing:Hello, There is no = drag) because there is no lift produced. And the relationship parasitic drag and guide spacing is so small that it should not = considered. ----- Original Message ----- = Tim Doughty= Sent: Thursday, October = 12:46 PMSubject: Guide =Spacing: Hi, to blank, induce drag, parasitic drag, and guide size for best = possible shoot. I thought I would just put the other = discussion. Upstream always, Tim Upstream Custom Rods = Tim Doughty Rodmaker = ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C02F0C.8DB2EB40-- from jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu Oct 5 19:58:04 2000 e960w3G27546 Subject: Re: Sv: Rollpins I sorta figure I'll just punch out the worn bores and put in the next sizepin. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Sv: Rollpins From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Sv: RollpinsDate sent: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:54:30 +0200 If You use those spring steel pins orhardened doewel pins, Your forms are worn instead. how many thousands of rods would one have to make, to wear outa set of forms that are only moved back and forth a fewthousandths at a time? Just curious Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from Canerods@aol.com Thu Oct 5 20:02:43 2000 e9612gG27777 Subject: Re: Sv: Swelled butts; was Sv: Rollpins In a message dated 10/5/00 10:45:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: I believe they also allow for a longer rod, but with the active taper of a shorter rod. Don Burns from jamieison59@hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 20:46:42 2000 e961kfG29237 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:46:36 -0700 Fri, 06 Oct 2000 01:46:35 GMT Subject: Re: Sv: Swelled butts; was Sv: Rollpins FILETIME=[42FE1B30:01C02F37] You may correct me if I have been mis-informed, I have been told there isanother reason for swelled butts, that is: the extra mass acts as a dampening mechanism on a rod's natural tendency to vibrate as a cast is completed. From: Canerods@aol.com Subject: Re: Sv: Swelled butts; was Sv: RollpinsDate: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:01:51 EDT In a message dated 10/5/00 10:45:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: I believe they also allow for a longer rod, but with the active taper of ashorter rod. Don Burns _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from bob@downandacross.com Thu Oct 5 20:59:51 2000 e961xpG29774 Subject: paul young article http://www.downandacross.com/paulhyoung.pdf I maximized it, but it still looks hazy. I retyped the parts that were obscured from the page edges.Who knows Adobe Acrobat enough to tell me why it looks worse than in my original PageMaker file?Thanks guys, (and gals) (and Shadow) LOLBob from Shadow357_us@hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 21:01:59 2000 e9621wG29938 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:01:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation FILETIME=[6595A080:01C02F39] Mr. Channer, I would be very interested in hearing more about your impressions. Cordially, The Shadow ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation Shadow;Even tho nothing has ever been formally said about it, I have alwaysbeen under the impression that those of us on the "list" post under ourreal names, dealing with a "handle" is more along the lines of ROFF orthe web bulletin boards.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 5 21:03:16 2000 e9623FG00068 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:03:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: for the SHADOW Parasitic drag also refers to the friction caused by too much lube in anengine, which in turn creates too much heat ! We have this in model engineswhen the rpm increases to such a high degree when running at over 40,000rpm! Too much lube will barf a connecting rod in a few seconds ! Line drag in guides is plain old friction ! Exceptional speed creates suchfriction/drag, that heat can rise to over 900 deg. F. and Mk. III ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 5 21:24:03 2000 e962O2G00807 Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:24:18 -0500 Subject: Re: paul young article Some of the printing ran off the page, when I printed a copy. I've put itover into my camera software, so that I can try to reduce it enough to printit in full. GMA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 5 21:26:51 2000 e962QoG00995 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation Ralph, Bob, the Shadow,What about replacing the broken strip and it's equivalent on the other strip with strips from a different culm that has similar spacing or spacing that does not diminish the strength of the rod? That way you only have to plane 2 strips and the tips' spacing would be consistent. Yup, I've been there several times- confession is supposed to be good for the soul :-)Regards,Hank. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 21:43:53 2000 e962hmG01529 19:43:47 PDT Subject: Re: Guide Spacing: for the SHADOW sssoooo.....does any one think hollowbuilt rods runcooler? :-) timothy --- nobler wrote:Parasitic drag also refers to the friction caused bytoo much lube in anengine, which in turn creates too much heat ! Wehave this in model engineswhen the rpm increases to such a high degree whenrunning at over 40,000 rpm! Too much lube will barf a connecting rod in a fewseconds ! Line drag in guides is plain old friction !Exceptional speed creates suchfriction/drag, that heat can rise to over 900 deg.F. and Mk. III ! GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from richjez@enteract.com Thu Oct 5 22:16:56 2000 e963GtG02645 Subject: Help --=====================_14669291==_.ALT I have been having a discussion with Olaf. In the area where I live, Formbys tung oil varnish is to to be found. There is plenty of Formby's tung oil finish tough. Formbys was no help. They could give me only 2 places where the varnish was sold. Both were over 70 miles away. I remember you recommending the varnish, not the finish. It the finish OK? Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_14669291==_.ALT I have been having a discussion with Olaf. In the area where Ilive, Formbys tung oil varnish is to to be found. There is plenty ofFormby's tung oil finish tough. Formbys was no help. They could give meonly 2 places where the varnish was sold. Both were over 70 milesaway. I remember you recommending the varnish, not the finish. It thefinish OK? Rich Jezioro *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_14669291==_.ALT-- from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Oct 5 22:55:29 2000 e963tSG03591 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation In a message dated 10/5/00 12:35:57 PM Central Daylight Time, mcdowellc@lanecc.edu writes: Good point, Chris. I have the Spring, 1992 edition of Dick Spurr's "The Classic Chronicle" periodical in which there is a two page spread of a young Jim Payne and his factory. The article is a reprint from a 1935 issue of Outdoor Life Magazine and Mr Payne looked to be in his mid to late 30's. The article is a very short pictorial on the Payne factory showing the process of making bamboo rods in 11 pictures. One picture is that of bamboo strips ready for processing. It is of a large number of them, perhaps 3-4 hundred, stacked in a pound key pattern (#) with the notation they are thus placed "to keep strain at a minimum". The point is, it thus seems virtually impossible that any attention could have been paid to insuring strips came from thesame culm for specific rods. And, of course, we all know his rods were among the best. I personally have been fortunate to cast four Payne rods, and all were very smooth with no discernable casting quirks from my amaturishperspective. Business needs and attitudes of the times apparently did not dictate that a rod be of one culm. Perhaps that practice is simply one of Mr. Garrison's legacys. 205, 8' for #6, professionally restored. MR - $850. Oh what a difference a decade (almost) makes. Best regards, Richard Tyree from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Thu Oct 5 23:09:41 2000 e9649eG03931 Subject: Thanks Well, thanks to all who replied to my recent questions. As usual the response was good and now have plenty to think about. I am off thanks again, Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Oct 6 05:43:35 2000 e96AhXG08513 Subject: Re: Guide spacing Organization: vet George There was a piece in the last received issue of "The Planing Form" whichoutlined a method for determining the spacing of guides. joke. At this stage I am about 50/50 convinced that it isn't. If it isn't a hoax, it lays claim to being the single most complicated pieceof advice I have ever received; and that includes those bits of advicereceived from my parents pertaining to the procreation of the species, andto my place in the reproductive scheme of things. The one thing that makes me really suspicious about the "Leonardo da Vinci"method is that I cannot bring myself to believe that anything so complicatedand roundabout as this would not have been espoused by Everett Garrison. Itsupposedly has to do with calculations for spacing the locks on transportcanals, and if you liked to bugger around with a pair of dividers for abouthalf a day it would probably yield an answer of sorts. At least no one could ever argue that the method was wrong! I don't feel that I can reproduce the article without permission from RonBarch*, but I would recomend that anyone who admires the work of HeathRobinson would be well advised not to miss it!*and also because I still cannot use my scanner. Regards Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Guide spacing Wayne C. says one guide for each foot, PLUS one more, and the tip top. Notime to try his Hexrod guide spacing yet, but he says add 9/16' to eachguide's spacing. I plan to just make a chart for each rod length. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Oct 6 07:49:23 2000 e96CnMG09912 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:49:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Thanks In thinking about practices used by the old masters, I wonder how much allthis "one culm, one rod" idea had to do with no longer being able to importgood cane from China ? I recall PHY writing me (early 1950's) that he hadplenty of top grade culms, purchased back in the 1930's ! Today, it appears steps have been taken to assure a much higher selectionprocess has been put into effect. We now get culms without all the damage,due to it being selected for rod making only ! Perhaps we could just split anumber of say 2.5" culms into butt strips, and tip strips. Process the lotas one, and make rods, and never tell the difference ???? GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Oct 6 08:16:40 2000 e96DGdG10611 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:16:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide spacing Yes Peter, I have that copy, and plan to sit down at the drafting table, anddo a lay out, to try that method. It is a little mind boggling to try to domentally alone, and the draftsman in me wants to put a pencil to it !There's a great deal to do with geometric progression, and dealing with aparabola may be right "in there" ! GMA from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Oct 6 08:42:51 2000 e96DgpG11889 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:42:48 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Help --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963520=_=_=_ Rich Try Moser's Polymerized Tung Oil Varnish (high sheen - has most solids) Part number 860-078 - $14.95 for a quart avail from Woodworkers Supply phone 1-800-645-9292. This is the stuff I use on my lines and also doublesforwooden cases and I use it for one piece rods that are too big for my dip tank. BTW - you might also get some Bloxygen from them for use in yourdip tank and to put in the can after you use it. This stuff will prevent skinoveron your varnish. A worthwhile investment. Usual disclaimers apply here. Chris --Original Message Text--- I have been having a discussion with Olaf. In the area where I live, Formbystung oil varnish is to to be found. There is plenty of Formby's tung oil finish tough. Formbys was no help. They could give me only 2 places where thevarnish was sold. Both were over 70 miles away. I remember you recommending the varnish, not the finish. It the finish OK? Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @/||/____/||_________________________________________|| /\ ))):> > ))):> --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963520=_=_=_ Rich Try Moser's Polymerized Tung Oil Varnish (high sheen - has most solids) Part number 860-078 - $14.95 for a quart avail from Woodworkers Supply phone 1-800-645-9292. This is the stuff I use on my lines and also doublesforwooden cases and I use it for one piece rods that are too big for my diptank. BTW - you might also get some Bloxygen from them for use in yourdip tank and to put in the can after you use it. This stuff will prevent skinoveron your varnish. A worthwhile investment. Usual disclaimers apply here. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Rich JezioroDate: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 22:19:20 -0500 I have been having a discussion with Olaf. In the area where I live, Formbystung oil varnish is to to be found. There is plenty of Formby's tung oil finishtough. Formbys was no help. They could give me only 2 places where thevarnish was sold. Both were over 70 miles away. I remember you recommending the varnish, not the finish. It the finishOK? Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @/||/____/||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963520=_=_=_-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 6 10:05:27 2000 e96F5QG14546 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 6 Oct 2000 11:05:26 -0400 Subject: Steam box In a past issue of the Planing Form, someone suggested building a steam boxof the type used by woodworkers to heat strips in preparation forflattening nodes, staightening, etc. This simple tool could be put togetherin a couple of hours and would simply consist of an elongated wooden boxand an electric kettle. This certainly sounds like a much faster way toperform this task than the traditional heat gun or alcohol lampone-node- at-a-time approach. With a steam box, you could take a strip out,flatten the node in vise #1, take another strip out and flatten it's nodein vise #2, then put strip one back in and pull out strip three, etc. Inaddition, no charring would take place. One question: any idea if all that steam heat could damage the bamboo? Iwould expect the strips to be in the steam heat for about one hour. I'm notworried about moisture content because the strips will be heat treated inmy air-gun oven after rough planing the strips. Any guitar/violin makers or boatbuilders out there with experience inbending wood? Thanks in advance, Richard from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Oct 6 10:16:35 2000 e96FGYG15013 Subject: First Splice, Yahooooo! Took a break from the drawfiling last night to work on a rod I'mrebuilding for my bro and sis-in-law. This rod, by the way, was theugliest thing ever, and I discovered, once I'd stripped the varnish,that the maker had never even removed the cane's enamel. The buttsection was shorter than the other sections, as the rod was assembledwith a wood reel seat/grip plug that extgended about 5" beyond the cane.Once the seat/grip assembly was removed the butt section was too short.I cold have just run with it, installed amodern seat and grip and beendone, as I've done before, but that would have been wrong in this case,so splicing onto the butt section was in order. My only rodbuildingbook is Garrison's, and his section splicing block just didn't make anysense to me. The instructions for making it are non-existent, and theinstructions for using almost as bad. Last night I made a simplesplicing block, three pieces of wood, the center one cut with a ramp togive me approximately 3-1/2" splice, screwed it down to hold the sectionin place. Used a piece of butt section from another old rod that gotbanty-ized, and away I went. First time I've run a plane over bamboo,and this was with my cheapo, garbage, non-adjustable mouth block plane.I was really surprised at how easily bamboo planes. In any event, theplaning is done, the pieces fit nicely, I'm ready to glue up. I knowthis is boring stuff for you guys, but I am just excited that my firstattempted splice is going so well. from eharrison241@earthlink.net Fri Oct 6 11:27:24 2000 e96GRNG18801 JAA21908; "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing Patrick,The attachment you sent with this e-mail was over 2 MB for three simplepictures. It took my computer over 10 minutes to down load this. If youwantto send any more attachments learn how to cut them down to a reasonablesize.Ernie ----- Original Message ----- Subject: guide spacing This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many years ofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Oct 6 12:02:23 2000 e96H2MG20069 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:02:20 +0100 Subject: Re: guide spacing Patrick,With all respect to everyone, I have to agree with Ernie on this one andwould respectfully suggest that future transmissions be compressed withwinzip or similar......regards.........Paul Ernie Harrison wrote: Patrick,The attachment you sent with this e-mail was over 2 MB for three simplepictures. It took my computer over 10 minutes to down load this. If youwantto send any more attachments learn how to cut them down to a reasonablesize.Ernie ----- Original Message -----From: "Coffey, Patrick W" Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 8:21 AMSubject: guide spacing This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many yearsofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Ron_Elder@cpr.ca Fri Oct 6 12:32:48 2000 e96HWiG21297 1999)) id 87256970.006061C8 ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:32:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Steam Box Richard Nantel wrote: In a past issue of the Planing Form, someone suggested building a steambox of the type used by woodworkers to heat strips in preparation forflattening nodes, straightening, etc. This simple tool could be puttogether in a couple of hours and would simply consist of an elongatedwoodenbox and an electric kettle. > I too have questions around this. How does this process of introducing waterto the cane differ from the wet planing method?Would this method also facilitate the soaking of cane for planing? Would ithave any adverse effects to planing the strips?Anybody have comments/observations? Just curious as I am in the middle of building a steam box to make nets. Might have to make the box a little bigger to handlethe extra length of the cane. ....ron from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Oct 6 12:39:45 2000 e96HdiG21849 KAA27898 (5.5.2650.21) "'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Guide spacing e96HdiG21850 didn't come off a scanner but off a file sent to me and I have been trying tomake it smaller but have been unable to so I deleted all but two pages hopingthat would work but obviously it didn't!! sorry about that Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:39 AM Subject: Sv: Guide spacing Dear Patrick Nice of You to mail the guidespacing chart, butPLEASE make it smaller than 2,18 MB.Not being flippant, please read the guide to Yourscanner, it ought to be 1/10 of the size, at mostregards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- From: Coffey, Patrick W Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 5:34 PMSubject: RE: Guide spacing Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 6:21 AM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Re: Guide spacing Yes Peter, I have that copy, and plan to sit down at the drafting table,anddo a lay out, to try that method. It is a little mind boggling to try to domentally alone, and the draftsman in me wants to put a pencil to it !There's a great deal to do with geometric progression, and dealing withaparabola may be right "in there" ! GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Oct 6 12:54:09 2000 e96Hs7G22567 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 01:54:02 +0800 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 01:54:02 +0800 Subject: Re: Steam box I've done a lot of steam bending wood and there are a few things relatingto wood that might translate to bamboo.You need very WET steam to bend wood. Very dry wood like recently kilndried wood never really bends happily and is liable to fracture and orcrush rather than bend but it depends on the species.The heat leaves the wood very quickly after leaving the steam box and thethinner the wood the fast it cools so you'd want to be moving at a decentsort of clip with a spline to get all the nodes in one heat.Also, you can definitely ruin wood by over steaming it.I'd think the same process of steaming wood would work for bamboo if onlybecause bamboo if pliable when hot and it is also pliable when wet just bea bit cautious with how long you steam it. You may damage it withoutknowing until you use the rod. Tony At 11:04 AM 10/6/00 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote:In a past issue of the Planing Form, someone suggested building a steamboxof the type used by woodworkers to heat strips in preparation forflattening nodes, staightening, etc. This simple tool could be put togetherin a couple of hours and would simply consist of an elongated wooden boxand an electric kettle. This certainly sounds like a much faster way toperform this task than the traditional heat gun or alcohol lampone-node-at-a-time approach. With a steam box, you could take a strip out,flatten the node in vise #1, take another strip out and flatten it's nodein vise #2, then put strip one back in and pull out strip three, etc. Inaddition, no charring would take place. One question: any idea if all that steam heat could damage the bamboo? Iwould expect the strips to be in the steam heat for about one hour. I'm notworried about moisture content because the strips will be heat treated inmy air-gun oven after rough planing the strips. Any guitar/violin makers or boatbuilders out there with experience inbending wood? Thanks in advance, Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Oct 6 13:31:02 2000 e96IV1G24004 Subject: RE: Bamboo Variation Well I have to chime in on this one. Not only are there variations amongculms, but I understand there are differences in wall thickness from oneside of a culm to the other. I think it has to do with the sunny vs shadedside, perhaps also with prevailing winds. Anyway, this suggests that makinga rod from a single culm is the best way to guarantee that your strips won'tbe consistent. But what I really think (so far -- I'm no veteran) is thatthe use of a single culm vs strips from multiple culms makes very littledifference to the function of a rod. If it adds to someone's enjoyment,that's great. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation In a message dated 10/5/00 12:35:57 PM Central Daylight Time, mcdowellc@lanecc.edu writes: Good point, Chris. I have the Spring, 1992 edition of Dick Spurr's "The Classic Chronicle" periodical in which there is a two page spread of a young Jim Payne and his factory. The article is a reprint from a 1935 issue of Outdoor Life Magazine and Mr Payne looked to be in his mid to late 30's.The article is a very short pictorial on the Payne factory showing the processof making bamboo rods in 11 pictures. One picture is that of bamboo strips ready for processing. It is of a large number of them, perhaps 3-4 hundred, stacked in a pound key pattern (#) with the notation they are thus placed"to keep strain at a minimum". The point is, it thus seems virtually impossible that any attention could have been paid to insuring strips came from thesame culm for specific rods. And, of course, we all know his rods were among the best. I personally have been fortunate to cast four Payne rods, and allwere very smooth with no discernable casting quirks from my amaturishperspective. Business needs and attitudes of the times apparently did not dictate that a rod be of one culm. Perhaps that practice is simply one of Mr. Garrison's legacys. model 205, 8' for #6, professionally restored. MR - $850. Oh what a difference a decade (almost) makes. Best regards, Richard Tyree from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Oct 6 15:49:02 2000 e96Kn1G00857 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:49:22 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Steam box Good question Richard, and Tony in OZ is an old ship builder. Perhaps he cantell us if it will get hot enough to soften the node, to allow easy, andcomplete straightening ??? GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Oct 6 16:12:21 2000 e96LCKG01893 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:12:40 -0500 , "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing Geez, it took only a few seconds for me ? Must be the ISP compared to cable. GMA from anglport@con2.com Fri Oct 6 16:18:18 2000 e96LIGG02228 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Steam box Richard,My initial worry after reading your question is will the compressed andstraightened nodes "re-pop" upon being reheated without constraint?It sounds like the second pass through the "tank" might restore themtotheir original size/shape.Have you considered that, or do you have experience in the matter?Art At 11:04 AM 10/06/2000 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote:In a past issue of the Planing Form, someone suggested building a steamboxof the type used by woodworkers to heat strips in preparation forflattening nodes, staightening, etc. This simple tool could be put togetherin a couple of hours and would simply consist of an elongated wooden boxand an electric kettle. This certainly sounds like a much faster way toperform this task than the traditional heat gun or alcohol lampone-node-at-a-time approach. With a steam box, you could take a strip out,flatten the node in vise #1, take another strip out and flatten it's nodein vise #2, then put strip one back in and pull out strip three, etc. Inaddition, no charring would take place. One question: any idea if all that steam heat could damage the bamboo? Iwould expect the strips to be in the steam heat for about one hour. I'm notworried about moisture content because the strips will be heat treated inmy air-gun oven after rough planing the strips. Any guitar/violin makers or boatbuilders out there with experience inbending wood? Thanks in advance, Richard from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Oct 6 16:23:53 2000 e96LNqG02595 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:24:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Steam box As I think about this, isn't it the higher heat localized at the node, thatsoftens the binder in the cane, that allows the straightening to work at all? I'm thinking it's the heat, not the moisture than allows the heat gun orlamp to work ???? GMA from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Oct 6 16:29:23 2000 e96LTKG02937 Subject: guide spacing Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C03038.24687060 Actully, you chaps are just going to LOVE the "Leonardo" thing. My apologies for the implied criticism of the method, which ios =obviously soul food to you guys. I wish i had a nice nom-de-plume here =- "the ghost who stalks" perhaps! ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C03038.24687060 Actully, you chaps are just going = "Leonardo" thing. My apologies for the implied = nom-de-plume here - "the ghost who stalks" perhaps! ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C03038.24687060-- from rfjoinery@creativequest.com Fri Oct 6 16:42:13 2000 e96LgDG03585 Subject: St. Louis to Mountain Home? Anybody around St. Louis interested in sharing a ride to the SoutherRodmakers Gathering? I'll be driving and would be glad to havecompany/share gas. Probably have to take my car; I'll need a commuter carwhile there, since I'm not staying at Fulton's, it's full. I live inKirkwood area. Reply offline if interested. Thanks. from mep@mint.net Fri Oct 6 17:29:30 2000 e96MTTG05188 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:29:20 -0400 Subject: Re: guide spacing Telling him where to find the information to do this more efficiently wouldhavebeen much more productive! I am happy to have the pictures despite thewait. Mike Ernie Harrison wrote: Patrick,The attachment you sent with this e-mail was over 2 MB for three simplepictures. It took my computer over 10 minutes to down load this. If youwantto send any more attachments learn how to cut them down to a reasonablesize.Ernie ----- Original Message -----From: "Coffey, Patrick W" Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 8:21 AMSubject: guide spacing This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many yearsofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from channer1@rmi.net Fri Oct 6 17:52:29 2000 e96MqTG05906 Subject: Re: Steam box Richard;The main problem I see with this is that you would have to make yourstrips an even width and thickness for the full length and then devise away to press and flatten the whole strip at once, if you reheat apreviously straightened node, then the original bends and kinks willcome right back, unless the strip is bound with others for heattreating, even then I am sure you have noticed that you get a slightraise at the nodes that wasn't there after they were straightened. ithink Tony also makes a good point as to possible damage to the stripsthat you might not know about until it was too late. I have found thatthe best way for me to fix nodes is to use Paul Whitely's method. Filethe bottom of the node so it is the same thickness as the internodalarea, heat the node well and press in the vise for 5 seconds enamel up,flip to enamel to the vise jaws and leave it while you heat a node onanother strip. the first squeeze will straighten it enough to stay whenyou flip it and the second will keep it straight while it also flattensthe node. This avoids heating the nodes twice, which drove me nutsbecause the first bend always came right back every time I heated thenode again. I set up my drill press with a coarse sanding drum with apin fence and just run my split strips thru that with the enamel side tothe pin, this makes the whole strip the same thickness and only takes aminute, lots less hassle than filing the botom of each node and makesroughing a bit easier.John Richard Nantel wrote: In a past issue of the Planing Form, someone suggested building a steamboxof the type used by woodworkers to heat strips in preparation forflattening nodes, staightening, etc. This simple tool could be put togetherin a couple of hours and would simply consist of an elongated wooden boxand an electric kettle. This certainly sounds like a much faster way toperform this task than the traditional heat gun or alcohol lampone-node- at-a-time approach. With a steam box, you could take a strip out,flatten the node in vise #1, take another strip out and flatten it's nodein vise #2, then put strip one back in and pull out strip three, etc. Inaddition, no charring would take place. One question: any idea if all that steam heat could damage the bamboo? Iwould expect the strips to be in the steam heat for about one hour. I'm notworried about moisture content because the strips will be heat treated inmy air-gun oven after rough planing the strips. Any guitar/violin makers or boatbuilders out there with experience inbending wood? Thanks in advance, Richard from channer1@rmi.net Fri Oct 6 18:03:44 2000 e96N3hG06326 Subject: Re: Bamboo Variation I think what matters most is using strips that are well matched in depthof fiber and flexion and not using weak strips in a rod. So many oldproduction rods have incurable sets because they didn't do much, if any,quality control on the individual strips that went into a rod. Theeasiest way to get strips with the same characteristics is to use strips from the same culm. Leonard and Dickerson both used 3 strips each from 2culms for each section, but they had the knowledge and integrity to usecomplementary culms.John "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Well I have to chime in on this one. Not only are there variations amongculms, but I understand there are differences in wall thickness from oneside of a culm to the other. I think it has to do with the sunny vs shadedside, perhaps also with prevailing winds. Anyway, this suggests that makinga rod from a single culm is the best way to guarantee that your stripswon'tbe consistent. But what I really think (so far -- I'm no veteran) is thatthe use of a single culm vs strips from multiple culms makes very littledifference to the function of a rod. If it adds to someone's enjoyment,that's great. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 10:55 PM Cc: mcdowellc@lanecc.eduSubject: Re: Bamboo Variation In a message dated 10/5/00 12:35:57 PM Central Daylight Time,mcdowellc@lanecc.edu writes: time, and the marketing hype of "strips from the same culm" pitch whatarethe real drawbacks to mixing strips from various culms. Right? Wrong? Who Cares? >> Good point, Chris. I have the Spring, 1992 edition of Dick Spurr's "TheClassic Chronicle" periodical in which there is a two page spread of a young Jim Payne and his factory. The article is a reprint from a 1935 issue ofOutdoor Life Magazine and Mr Payne looked to be in his mid to late 30's.Thearticle is a very short pictorial on the Payne factory showing the processofmaking bamboo rods in 11 pictures. One picture is that of bamboo stripsready for processing. It is of a large number of them, perhaps 3-4hundred, stacked in a pound key pattern (#) with the notation they are thus placed"tokeep strain at a minimum". The point is, it thus seems virtually impossible that any attention could have been paid to insuring strips came from thesameculm for specific rods. And, of course, we all know his rods were amongthe best. I personally have been fortunate to cast four Payne rods, and allwerevery smooth with no discernable casting quirks from my amaturishperspective.Business needs and attitudes of the times apparently did not dictate thata rod be of one culm. Perhaps that practice is simply one of Mr. Garrison'slegacys. model205, 8' for #6, professionally restored. MR - $850. Oh what a differencea decade (almost) makes. Best regards, Richard Tyree from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Oct 6 18:48:37 2000 e96NmbG07281 Subject: Off Topic But Important Info from TU Recd. from TU 10/6/00CARA Slipping away Dear TU Member: With only days left in this Congress, the one bill TU does not want to letget away is CARA. The Conservation and Reinvestment Act (H.R. 701 - CARA) setsasideabout $3 billion of revenues from offshore oil leasing every year for fish,wildlife, conservation and related activities. We are close to passage. Two-thirds of the House voted for CARA. TheSenate Energy and Natural Resources Committee voted for CARA. Sixty- six Senatorssupport CARA. Republican leader Trent Lott and Democrat leader Tom Daschle continue topush for CARA. But powerful Senators have blocked the Senate from voting on thebill. Time is running out - only days are left. Members of Congress guarding the perquisites of the appropriation processthat failed conservation for decades included $1.2 billion for conservation in theInterior Appropriations bill for FY 2001 to reduce pressure to pass CARA. Weappreciate that down payment on CARA, but it is not enough and it is not guaranteed fornext year or beyond. We welcome this down payment, but keep the pressure on to passthe real deal. Please click on the link below to go to TU's website and send an email toyour Senators. Even better, print out the text from the website and send it by fax. Alist of Senate fax numbers is on the TU web site. Or call your Senators and urge support fora vote on CARA - the Senate switchboard at 1-202-224-3121 will connect you withyourSenator. http://congress.nw.dc.us/cgi-bin/alertpr.pl?dir=tu&alert=13 And please forward this message to a friend. We need all of our fishingbuddies on this one. Thanks for your help. Steven MallochCounsel - Western Water ProjectTrout Unlimited Regards to all, -Doug Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 6 19:50:52 2000 e970opG08346 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Steam box You may right about nodes popping back up. I'm alternately consideringbuilding a small steambox, say 8 inches long, with openings at both ends inwhich the strips would be passed. Nodes would be lined up at the same pointon all the strips, and only those nodes would be heated at one time. Likethe full length box, there wouldn't be any waiting for nodes to heat as isthe case with a heat gun. If nodes DID pop back out when reheated, wouldn't they do so when wetemperour rough-planed strips? Richard My initial worry after reading your question is willthe compressed andstraightened nodes "re-pop" upon being reheated without constraint?It sounds like the second pass through the "tank" mightrestore them totheir original size/shape.Have you considered that, or do you have experience inthe matter?Art from dpizza@coho.net Fri Oct 6 21:04:32 2000 e9724VG09599 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:04:26 -0700 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing PATRICK.......GREAT YOU HAPPEN TO BE USING YOUR WORK ISP THEY MUSTHAVE ALOT FASTER ONE THEN I HAVE AT HOME.....I HAVE WAITED TWENTY MINUTES LAST TWO EMAILS TO DOWNLOAD......PERSONALLY I WOULD APPRECIATE IFYOU WOULDNOT SPAM ME IN THE FUTURE LIKE THIS. If the "list" wants to flame me for this email......fire it up. I am trulyoutraged at the lack of consideration I was NOT shown by Patrick's posting.This is something that should have (in my opinion) been put on the"RODMAKERS" web site to look at if YOU choose too. Nothing worse then coming home to find your mailbox clogged with SPAM. Thank you for showing showing respect in the future to the bandwidth in aposting. David-----Original Message----- Subject: guide spacing This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many years ofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from anglport@con2.com Fri Oct 6 21:07:39 2000 e9727cG09824 "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: Steam box Richard,They do seem to slightly, but when bound together they're much moreconstricted than just sitting in heat unbound. I suspect they'd go muchfarther in a restorative direction.Perhaps this is logical but unfounded. Any other opinions out there?Art At 08:50 PM 10/06/2000 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote:You may right about nodes popping back up. I'm alternately consideringbuilding a small steambox, say 8 inches long, with openings at both ends inwhich the strips would be passed. Nodes would be lined up at the same pointon all the strips, and only those nodes would be heated at one time. Likethe full length box, there wouldn't be any waiting for nodes to heat as isthe case with a heat gun. If nodes DID pop back out when reheated, wouldn't they do so when wetemperour rough-planed strips? Richard My initial worry after reading your question is willthe compressed andstraightened nodes "re-pop" upon being reheated without constraint?It sounds like the second pass through the "tank" mightrestore them totheir original size/shape.Have you considered that, or do you have experience inthe matter?Art from bokstrom@axionet.com Fri Oct 6 21:17:21 2000 e972HKG10210 06 Oct 2000 19:17:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Steam Box ----------From: Ron_Elder@cpr.ca Subject: Re: Steam Box I too have questions around this. How does this process of introducingwater to the cane differ from the wet planing method?Would this method also facilitate the soaking of cane for planing? Wouldit have any adverse effects to planing the strips?Anybody have comments/observations? If I may comment on this: I'm the guy who introduced soaking many years agoto make node straightening easier. While I have suggested that some planingmay be done while the strip is still damp, I have NEVER advocated soakingsolely for the purpose of planing. It doesn't make sense to wait for thestrips to soak, plane a bit, wait for the strips to dry, and then plane tofinal dimension. I'm referring, of course, to the use of block planes; theMorgan Hand Mill users may find it advantageous to soak for planing. Also, there is some concern about soaked nodes popping out again duringheat-treating but this need not happen. I have noticed is that many equate"pressing" with "compressing", whereas "displacing" describes the processmuch better. A displaced node won't pop out. It requires either relief onthe pith side as some have mentioned or some device in the jaws of the viseto provide space so the node and its pith side are displaced withoutcompressing. Finally, the vise by itself will not do a proper job of straightening. Youshould over-correct any bend, bring it back to straight, and let the visehold it until cool. John Bokstrom from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Oct 6 21:30:42 2000 e972UfG10517 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:31:02 -0500 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing Sorry David,But his guide spacing chart was on the Rodmaker's list ! That's far frombeing Spam ! I do understand the frustration tho', as I fought it for 3 + years, until Igot cable service. It only took a few seconds for me to get it, and read it! By getting rid of a phone line, and the ISP, it costs me only $11.83 more GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Oct 6 21:50:58 2000 e972otG11186 Subject: Re: guide spacing notice it took a while to download though so I tried zipping it to see ifthat would have helped but it only saved about 10%. I wonder if there is aworthwhile way of shrinky dinking pdf files?Thanks Patrick. Tony At 08:21 AM 10/6/00 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many years ofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Oct 6 22:13:04 2000 e973D3G11641 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing Patrick, mine downloaded instantly and most glad to have it. J. Snider At 07:07 PM 10/06/2000 -0700, dpizza wrote:PATRICK.......GREAT YOU HAPPEN TO BE USING YOUR WORK ISP THEY MUSTHAVE ALOT FASTER ONE THEN I HAVE AT HOME.....I HAVE WAITED TWENTY MINUTES LAST TWO EMAILS TO DOWNLOAD......PERSONALLY I WOULD APPRECIATE IFYOU WOULDNOT SPAM ME IN THE FUTURE LIKE THIS. If the "list" wants to flame me for this email......fire it up. I am trulyoutraged at the lack of consideration I was NOT shown by Patrick's posting.This is something that should have (in my opinion) been put on the"RODMAKERS" web site to look at if YOU choose too. Nothing worse then coming home to find your mailbox clogged with SPAM. Thank you for showing showing respect in the future to the bandwidth in aposting. David-----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W Date: Friday, October 06, 2000 8:39 AMSubject: guide spacing This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many years ofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Oct 6 23:17:46 2000 e974HjG13092 Subject: Re: guide spacing Hi everyone, I personally think it should have been ftp'd to a website and alink posted for those who wish to see it. It took about 20 minutesto download here at 49 kbps. I live in the styx where 49 kbps is very fast,cable access is about $75 a month and DSL is not an option due to lineconditions.There are numerous third party web sites that would have been great for ittobe posted on. Such as Geocities, MSN, eBoard, Homestead, and the like.I was under the impression that pictures, attachments, and .exe's weretabooon this list.Also be considerate of the people using third party email accounts. Some ofthose emailaccounts will bounce anything over 1 or 2 mb. Also the simple way to downsize it wouldhave been to create a jpg of it using good ol' print screen and paint brush. Here is a link to a smaller version of that file, using .jpg format.http://lblove.users.omniglobal.net/guidespacing.htmlIf you want to look at the rest of the site use this linkhttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net/ just my opinionBradley Love ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: guide spacing Patrick, mine downloaded instantly and most glad to have it.J. Snider from can@telusplanet.net Fri Oct 6 23:26:43 2000 e974QgG13392 Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:26:36 -0600 Subject: Re: guide spacing Guy's, Patrick may have made a mistake by sending the files as is (myphoneline took forever to download also) but when I started into rodbuilding and queried the list about importing bamboo to Canada Patrick books, & also a Whitehead Agate stripping guide). I have continued thetradition by donating culms to new rodmakers in Calgary/Canmore & theyhave done the same (we're on our second level of payback) so cut himsome slack, I would fish with him anytime!!-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from can@telusplanet.net Fri Oct 6 23:30:07 2000 [199.185.220.239] (may be forged)) e974U6G13594 Subject: Patrick's E-mial Guy's, Patrick may have made a mistake by sending the files as is (myphoneline took forever to download also) but when I started into rodbuilding and queried the list about importing bamboo to Canada Patrick books, & also a Whitehead Agate stripping guide). I have continued thetradition by donating culms to new rodmakers in Calgary/Canmore & theyhave done the same (we're on our second level of payback) so cut himsome slack, I would fish with him anytime!!-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 7 04:13:23 2000 e979DMG16773 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Greenheart Wood-Source Hi Gang I`m back again for a short time Question: I`m on search for a "greenheart-source". Not for blanks, only for thewood - dowels or sticks.Any help, odeas, online-dealers? I have made several flyrods, butt made from hickory, tip made from ash,works very well, but isn`t the "original-stuff". Cause i`m away from the list from monday the 9.th, please send yourthought, help & comments to my private mail:angelruten@smile.ch Thanks very much Stefan/Switzerland --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 7 04:20:14 2000 e979KDG17015 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Rodmaking Class - Rutenbauschule Another short Mail: from 19 - 23. february 01, i teach a rodmaking class for a week here inSwitzerland. The Class will be in the Bernese Oberland in theSwiss- Mountains, a famous and wellknown skiing region. from ca. end of octobre, the Class will be on the following Webpage:http://www.kurszentrum-ballenberg.ch An alle europ€ischen Interessenten im Selbstbau v. Gespliessten: Vom 19-23.Februar 01 fèhre ich eine Rutenbau-Klasse im Selbstbau vonGespliessten.Der Kurs findet w€hrend des Tages statt und wird im BernerOberland/Schweiz, im Kurszentrum Ballenberg abgehalten.Fèr mehr Infos mailen Sie an: angelruten@smile.ch, oder besuchen ab ca.Ende Oktober 00 die Website des Kursveranstalters:http://www.kurszentrum- ballenberg.ch SincerlyGrèsse Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 7 04:31:26 2000 e979VPG17360 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: French Rodmkaing source Friends the web there`s a french written source for Cane-Rodmaking. Please note also the famous newspapers postet on this site, it`s like aamall french version of the "Planing Form". regards Stefan/Suisse --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 7 04:34:03 2000 e979Y2G17529 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: french rodmaking website ups - forgot to add the link: http://gbourrat.free.fr/pages/cour_gen.htm regards Stefan/Suisse --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 7 05:14:15 2000 e97AEDG18037 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: French Rodmkaing source Well - the sites from the class are in german, the other site is definitivfrench - here again: http://gbourrat.free.fr/pages/cour_gen.htm Regards Stefan Sean Mc Sharry schrieb: Stefan: Your marked sites are in German, not French! Sean Stefan Grau wrote: Friends the web there`s a french written source for Cane-Rodmaking. Please note also the famous newspapers postet on this site, it`s like aamall french version of the "Planing Form". regards Stefan/Suisse --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Oct 7 07:49:09 2000 e97Cn8G19287 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Hi everyone! Home for the weekend Hi all!I trust everyone is well and has been behaving themselves? Icame home this weekend after a 2 month absence to over 2000 messagesonmy email! Wish I had time to read them all!Ontario has been great and I even manage to tangle with somehuge steelhead and cohos on "bait chucking" gear, I didn't figure thePerfectionist or my new 6'3" 2 wt Sir D were quite up to that size fish!I am extremely impressed with the little Sir D 3pc!If anyone sent me a message during the past 2 months and I didn'tget it please forgive me and send it again this weekend. While I am awayI can be reached at my hotmail account......bamboobuilder@hotmail.comI have been banging away at building as much as I can with thelimited resources I have in my home away from home (Barracks). My courseis going well and I will be home just in time for Christmas! I don'tknow if the military will be moving me after that but I guess as long asI have my family back, water to fish and rods to build I should be fine! Well, I should go spend some quality time with the family now as Ifly back to Ontario again on Monday till Xmas. I hope everyone has agreat Thanksgiving weekend and this note finds all of you well andbuilding rods! Shawn Pineo from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Oct 7 08:26:30 2000 e97DQUG21137 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 09:26:24 -0400 "richard.nantel@videotron.ca" ,"Rodmakers (E-mail)" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: RE: Steam box Richard / Art Nodes popping back up - Think about this - there is a problem here - and this not justa pitch for nodeless - you might want to not to compress (press) the nodes. which sooner or latter will be released. You might want to consider what some guys do and cut out behind the node and displace it rather thancompress or even just sand the buggers down and not worry about itlike other guys - but you may be creating a problem here that will comeback and bite you on the node. Chris On Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:50:04 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: You may right about nodes popping back up. I'm alternately consideringbuilding a small steambox, say 8 inches long, with openings at both ends inwhich the strips would be passed. Nodes would be lined up at the same pointon all the strips, and only those nodes would be heated at one time. Likethe full length box, there wouldn't be any waiting for nodes to heat as isthe case with a heat gun. If nodes DID pop back out when reheated, wouldn't they do so when wetemperour rough-planed strips? Richard My initial worry after reading your question is willthe compressed andstraightened nodes "re-pop" upon being reheated without constraint?It sounds like the second pass through the "tank" mightrestore them totheir original size/shape.Have you considered that, or do you have experience inthe matter?Art from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Oct 7 08:43:36 2000 e97DhaG21751 Subject: RE: Steam box rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu If I were going to steam nodes, which I don't think is such a bad idea, I would want to work with a jet of steam directly on the node, rather than steam the whole strip. I think you could use just enough moisture and heat to get the job done once you got the feel of it. from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 7 09:02:00 2000 e97E1xG22166 Subject: Steam, wet straightening --=====================_4670648==_.ALT I have found wet strips very useful in straightening and planing (Hand Milling). Mr. Bokstrom, who created the technique (I believe), is right on the money in saying that the nodes need to be displaced, not just compressed. I had a hard time figuring out why the wet straightened nodes would pop back out. Now, I hit the bottom (pith side) with my 1" belt sander, and this gives me the space to displace the nodes. Makes all the difference in the world. So too does heat treating the roughed strips immediately after wet planing them. This way they come out much straighter and flatter (on top) in the long run. A third point is that the heat gun on the wet strips does not scorch or destroy the cane like on dry cane. You can almost get a feel for the right heat by watching the strip drying as it moves over the heat gun.All that said (sorry I am so wordy today), I am going back to nodeless for a few rods after 6 with the technique mentioned above. I still have not been able to make a rod that is better than the nodeless ones I made.Best regards,Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_4670648==_.ALT I have found wet strips very useful in straightening andplaning (Hand Milling). Mr. Bokstrom, who created the technique (Ibelieve), is right on the money in saying that the nodes need to bedisplaced, not just compressed. I had a hard time figuring out why thewet straightened nodes would pop back out. Now, I hit the bottom (pithside) with my 1" belt sander, and this gives me the space todisplace the nodes. Makes all the difference in the world. So too doesheat treating the roughed strips immediately after wet planing them. Thisway they come out much straighter and flatter (on top) in the long run. Athird point is that the heat gun on the wet strips does not scorch ordestroy the cane like on dry cane. You can almost get a feel for theright heat by watching the strip drying as it moves over the heatgun.All that said (sorry I am so wordy today), I am going back tonodeless for a few rods after 6 with the technique mentioned above. Istill have not been able to make a rod that is better than the nodelessones I made.Best regards, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_4670648==_.ALT-- from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Sat Oct 7 09:09:19 2000 e97E9IG22463 helo=stans.tiac.net) Subject: Divine Fairy Fly Rod Hi Folks - I am looking for the taper for the Divine 7.5' 3 pc. Fairy FlyRod. Any help is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 7 10:11:17 2000 e97FBFG23387 "richard.nantel@videotron.ca" ,"Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Steam box Chris,I don't find it to be a severe problem; I was speaking sloppily when Isaid compress, I think what I'm doing really IS diaplacing. As for the"popping" it seems to occur slightly after the heat treatment and then I DOsand the excess off.My question had to do with what I saw as a never-ending process ofstraightening/heating/straightening cycles before ever getting to any otherstage.Thanks,Art At 09:25 AM 10/07/2000 -0400, Chris Bogart wrote:Richard / Art Nodes popping back up - Think about this - there is a problem here - and this not justa pitch for nodeless - you might want to not to compress (press) thenodes. which sooner or latter will be released. You might want to consider what some guys do and cut out behind the node and displace it rather thancompress or even just sand the buggers down and not worry about itlike other guys - but you may be creating a problem here that will comeback and bite you on the node. Chris On Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:50:04 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: You may right about nodes popping back up. I'm alternately consideringbuilding a small steambox, say 8 inches long, with openings at both ends inwhich the strips would be passed. Nodes would be lined up at the samepointon all the strips, and only those nodes would be heated at one time. Likethe full length box, there wouldn't be any waiting for nodes to heat as isthe case with a heat gun. If nodes DID pop back out when reheated, wouldn't they do so when wetemperour rough-planed strips? Richard My initial worry after reading your question is willthe compressed andstraightened nodes "re-pop" upon being reheated without constraint?It sounds like the second pass through the "tank" mightrestore them totheir original size/shape.Have you considered that, or do you have experience inthe matter?Art from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Oct 7 11:12:49 2000 e97GCmG24891 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 17:11:32 +0000 angelruten@smile.chSubject: Re: Greenheart Wood-Source Stefan,The last remaining UK Greenheart rod builder was a Mr George Wilkins ofRedditch.The tools and timber were purchased by Partridge of Redditchand I suspect that if you contacted them directly they would be morethan happy to sell you some of their greenheart timber . Their web site is www.partridge-of-redditch.co.uk Alternatively as Greenheart is still used in the construction of waterretaining structures( well we Brits still use it ! ) I would suggest animporter( green heart comes from South America) of exotic hard woodswould be able to help source you some ?..............good luck........Paul Stefan Grau wrote: Hi Gang I`m back again for a short time Question: I`m on search for a "greenheart-source". Not for blanks, only for thewood - dowels or sticks.Any help, odeas, online-dealers? I have made several flyrods, butt made from hickory, tip made from ash,works very well, but isn`t the "original-stuff". Cause i`m away from the list from monday the 9.th, please send yourthought, help & comments to my private mail:angelruten@smile.ch Thanks very much Stefan/Switzerland --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Oct 7 11:28:35 2000 e97GSZG25323 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 17:28:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Greenheart Wood-Source Stefan, Another contact would be ;info@aitkenhoward.co.ukand sales@aitkenhoward.co.ukAitken Howard are importers of Marine Timbers...........Paul "paul.blakley" wrote: Stefan,The last remaining UK Greenheart rod builder was a Mr George Wilkins ofRedditch.The tools and timber were purchased by Partridge of Redditchand I suspect that if you contacted them directly they would be morethan happy to sell you some of their greenheart timber . Their web site is www.partridge-of-redditch.co.uk Alternatively as Greenheart is still used in the construction of waterretaining structures( well we Brits still use it ! ) I would suggest animporter( green heart comes from South America) of exotic hard woodswould be able to help source you some ?..............good luck........Paul Stefan Grau wrote: Hi Gang I`m back again for a short time Question: I`m on search for a "greenheart-source". Not for blanks, only for thewood - dowels or sticks.Any help, odeas, online-dealers? I have made several flyrods, butt made from hickory, tip made from ash,works very well, but isn`t the "original-stuff". Cause i`m away from the list from monday the 9.th, please send yourthought, help & comments to my private mail:angelruten@smile.ch Thanks very much Stefan/Switzerland --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Oct 7 11:38:49 2000 e97GcnG25607 Subject: Re: Divine Fairy Fly Rod Alec: Here is the taper I took on a Devine Fairy Rod I had for a while. It was a 7'6" 3 piece for a 3 weight line. It had an all cork reel seat. The dimensions have had 0.004 already subtracted for varnish. --Rich 1 0.0675 0.07910 0.09515 0.10920 0.11525 0.12430 0.14635 0.16340 0.17145 0.18250 0.19155 0.20060 0.21765 0.23870 0.25175 0.26280 0.27181 0.272 from Canerods@aol.com Sat Oct 7 11:39:02 2000 e97Gd0G25648 Subject: Re: First Splice, Yahooooo! In a message dated 10/6/00 8:17:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jmpio@nhbm.com writes: I think the Garrison book is written in code - so that one needs to already know how to do rodmaking before reading "the book". OBTW, Many classic production rods had reelseats that weren't completely "full" of bamboo - most likely to hold weight down? I did about a dozen scarf repairs over this past week - one was for one of my own rods that has been "work in progress" for about a year now. An 8'Heddon #17. On this rod, the ferrule was broken off at the slide and so all I did was measure the distance from the lower guide to the top of the ferrule and to the broken slide. Then removed the ferrule and scarfed a short piece ontothe tip. I did this so that the new ferrule would be "full" of bamboo. I remade the ferrule station and assembled with the new ferrule (thanksDave LeClair!) and after all that - I put the tip next to the mid section and found out the the tip was about a 1/4" too long. The original Heddon assemby job was wrong. %#$%#@$^^%%^&^% Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Oct 7 11:42:35 2000 e97GgZG25986 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:42:29 -0400 "grau@buchlang.com" ,"paul.blakley@ntlworld.com" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Greenheart Wood-Source e97GgZG25987 Stefan You are right - here is their website: http://www.aitkenhoward.co.uk and they list greenheart. Chris On Sat, 07 Oct 2000 17:28:21 +0100, paul.blakley wrote: Stefan, Another contact would be ;info@aitkenhoward.co.ukand sales@aitkenhoward.co.ukAitken Howard are importers of Marine Timbers...........Paul "paul.blakley" wrote: Stefan,The last remaining UK Greenheart rod builder was a Mr George Wilkins ofRedditch.The tools and timber were purchased by Partridge of Redditchand I suspect that if you contacted them directly they would be morethan happy to sell you some of their greenheart timber . Their web site is www.partridge-of-redditch.co.uk Alternatively as Greenheart is still used in the construction of waterretaining structures( well we Brits still use it ! ) I would suggest animporter( green heart comes from South America) of exotic hard woodswould be able to help source you some ?..............good luck........Paul Stefan Grau wrote: Hi Gang I`m back again for a short time Question: I`m on search for a "greenheart-source". Not for blanks, only for thewood - dowels or sticks.Any help, odeas, online-dealers? I have made several flyrods, butt made from hickory, tip made fromash,works very well, but isn`t the "original- stuff". Cause i`m away from the list from monday the 9.th, please send yourthought, help & comments to my private mail:angelruten@smile.ch Thanks very much Stefan/Switzerland --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine GeschftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind f*r den/die Empfnger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgef*hrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Gr*nden nicht mit diesen Adressaten*bereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zul"schen.Smtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from troutchaser@home.com Sat Oct 7 11:56:28 2000 e97GuRG26336 ;Sat, 7 Oct 2000 09:56:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Patrick's E-mial I just want to add my $0.02 for what's it worth. I agree with Craig. I am one of the benefactors of both Patrick's andCraig's generosity. If it wasn't for Patrick to start this littletradition I probably wouldn't have got into this obsession as early as Idid. I just want to say a big THANKS to both gentlemen. ....ron ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Patrick's E-mial Guy's, Patrick may have made a mistake by sending the files as is (myphoneline took forever to download also) but when I started into rodbuilding and queried the list about importing bamboo to Canada Patricksent me 3 culms as a GIFT to get me started (that's very classy in mybooks, & also a Whitehead Agate stripping guide). I have continued thetradition by donating culms to new rodmakers in Calgary/Canmore & theyhave done the same (we're on our second level of payback) so cut himsome slack, I would fish with him anytime!!--CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/--CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Oct 7 12:49:01 2000 e97Hn0G27480 Subject: the rod with many fathers I have the ferrules mounted and the handle assembled on the Catskill 2000 Degere. A picture is at:http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickThe file name is rmf.jpgThe ferrules are stainless steel by Howard Bartholomew, the rattan grip byAl Medved, and the seat by Gary Dabrowski. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Oct 7 12:56:56 2000 e97HutG27778 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 7 Oct 2000 13:56:54 -0400 Subject: Ferrule dimensions To complicate my life even more and slow down my rod building, I've decidedto begin making my own ferrules by machining nickle silver rod. I'vedownloaded the Super Z dimension chart generously posted by Chris Bogartonhis site and Ed Hartzell graciously sent me the same dimensions by mail awhile back. The dimensions of the ferrules on the Super Z patent chart are verydifferent from the ferrules I have purchased from Classic SportingEnterprises and REC. For example, the overall length of the standard 16/64male ferrule from Classic Sporting Enterprises is 1.673 inches. Accordingto the Super Z patent document, the overall length of its 16/64" maleferrule (dimension labeled L1 on the chart) is 1.38 inches. The slide onthe CSE ferrule measures .957". The slide on the patent chart is only .800.Overall, the patent chart's dimensions are about 80% the size ones I'mholding in my hands. Here then, are the questions: 1. If the CSE and REC ferrules aren't based on the Super Z dimensions (yetare very similar to one another) what are their dimesions based upon?2. Are the dimensions on the Super Z chart for truncated ferrules?3. If so, are they long enough for two piece rods?4. Is anyone else out there machining ferrule? Thanks in advance, Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Oct 7 13:04:07 2000 e97I47G28066 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: French Rodmkaing source Bonjour Stefan I speak French. Do you have the web address for this site? I will gladlyread it and post a translation if the content is important. Your faithful French Guy in Quebec, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 5:31 AM Subject: French Rodmkaing source Friends the web there`s a french written source for Cane-Rodmaking. Please note also the famous newspapers postet on this site,it`s like aamall french version of the "Planing Form". regards Stefan/Suisse --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesenAdressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Oct 7 13:14:01 2000 e97IE0G28399 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 7 Oct 2000 14:13:58 -0400 Subject: Machining ferrules As I just mentioned, I'm beginning to machine ferrules from nickle silverrod. This is my introduction to working with metal and a lathe. Since I'mso new at this, I suspect I may not be doing things in the correct order.I'm practicing on cheap brass rod for now and saving my nickle silver forwhen I actually know what I'm doing. For anyone who's experienced in thistask, what is the order of the steps required in machining ferrules? 1. cut rod to length of ferrule;2. make a starter hole in end of rod;3. bore hole with HSS drill bit 1/64 under final dimension;4. ream hole with correct size reamer;5. machine outside dimensions, welts, etc;6. make serrations (don't have a clue how to make those yet). Is this right? Thanks, Richard from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 7 13:14:26 2000 e97IEPG28488 Subject: article is fixed and posted/ online magazine --=====================_1748656==_.ALT http://www.downandacross.com/paulhyoungarticle.pdfHi guys:Thanks to Chris Bogart using his text recognition software on the article scans, I was able to re-post the article on Paul Young and it is much better now. It takes about two minutes to download, but I really think it is worth a read. Neat stuff. If anyone is interested in getting together on a sort of online bamboo building magazine, respond to this off-list. We could put together some articles, and then let the list know where to fetch the latest issue. I would be glad to put in the leg/computer work. We could do our own, "Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine", but with no advertising, and no wait, and no cost. What do you think? Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_1748656==_.ALT http://www.downandacross.com/paulhyoungarticle.pdfHi guys:Thanks to Chris Bogart using his text recognition software on thearticle scans, I was able to re-post the article on Paul Young and it ismuch better now. It takes about two minutes to download, but I reallythink it is worth a read. Neat stuff. If anyone is interested in getting together on a sort of onlinebamboo building magazine, respond to this off-list. We could put togethersome articles, and then let the list know where to fetch the latestissue. I would be glad to put in the leg/computer work. We could do ourown, "Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine", but with no advertising, and nowait, and no cost. What do you think? Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com SplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_1748656==_.ALT-- from yves@hwy97.net Sat Oct 7 13:56:05 2000 e97Iu4G29472 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:56:03 -0700 Subject: Re: guide spacing I am outraged that you would present this download on an "involuntarybasis". I don't appreciate having my e-mail program literally blockaded bythis, and evidently a succeeding download that I can't delete. David LaTouche At 08:21 AM 10/6/00 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many years ofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\BUILDI~1.PDF" from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Oct 7 14:02:09 2000 e97J28G29692 Subject: Divine Fairy I just remembered Dean Burrill's excellent website devoted to Divine: http://209.24.23.126/divine/ Good pictures of many models. --Rich from mep@mint.net Sat Oct 7 16:54:07 2000 e97Ls6G02524 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 17:53:52 -0400 Subject: Re: guide spacing I'll second that ! Craig Naldrett wrote: Guy's, Patrick may have made a mistake by sending the files as is (myphoneline took forever to download also) but when I started into rodbuilding and queried the list about importing bamboo to Canada Patricksent me 3 culms as a GIFT to get me started (that's very classy in mybooks, & also a Whitehead Agate stripping guide). I have continued thetradition by donating culms to new rodmakers in Calgary/Canmore & theyhave done the same (we're on our second level of payback) so cut himsome slack, I would fish with him anytime!!--CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Oct 7 17:19:56 2000 e97MJrG03208 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 17:19:54 -0500 Subject: Re: article is fixed and posted/ online magazine Great Bob, it printed it all perfectly ! Thanks a bunch ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Oct 7 17:48:16 2000 e97Mm9G03873 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 17:48:08 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions I used many Super Z's as they were produced in both N.S., and brass, back inthe 1960's, and they are still perfect today. Some of my PHY rods usedthemtoo ! However, too many have had good success with those from REC, todoubtthem. When you ream a hole for a ferrule, you only want to be removing the last.003"/.004", or so. You will do well to look at the blind hole laps, asshown in the Travers Tool catalog. Look at www.traverstool.com and ask fortheir master catalog. They are free. These laps will help you get toexcellent final slip fits, by taking the female out gradually, and avoiding"bellmouth". It also is important to support the end of the female, whileturning the final O.D., and welt. A live center is perfect for this. GMA from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 7 18:14:46 2000 e97NEiG04406 Subject: Re: Machining ferrules HI Richard:The instruction I have, which I don't recall the source, recommend cutting the rod to length well into the process, instead of first. This way you have a bit more rod to grip, I suppose. Also, their was a bit of discussion recently that boring is the way to go because reaming is not as accurate. I could send you the directions I have, if you want.I have not really ventured beyond making ferrule plugs from the bar stock I bought from Sheffield's. That's enough fun for me for now. They are coming out great however.Bob 1. cut rod to length of ferrule;2. make a starter hole in end of rod;3. bore hole with HSS drill bit 1/64 under final dimension;4. ream hole with correct size reamer;5. machine outside dimensions, welts, etc;6. make serrations (don't have a clue how to make those yet). Is this right? from yves@hwy97.net Sat Oct 7 18:27:04 2000 e97NR2G04769 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 16:27:00 -0700 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing Well David, I quite agree with you, but then I seem to be in the minority.Not having been flamed before, it was a new experience (see response to mye- mail on the subject). I still believe that lengthy, compulsory downloadsshould not be included in a list such as rodmakers, or in any other venue unwanted info, I had to figure out how to delete it from my hard drive,where it took up a couple of megs. My thoughts while waiting for thedownload to terminate were: 1. A new form of junk mail? 2. A new typeof virus (should I shut down and phone the ISP?). I hope that this matterwill die quietly, but it probably won't. Dave At 07:07 PM 10/6/00 -0700, dpizza wrote:PATRICK.......GREAT YOU HAPPEN TO BE USING YOUR WORK ISP THEY MUSTHAVE ALOT FASTER ONE THEN I HAVE AT HOME.....I HAVE WAITED TWENTY MINUTES LAST TWO EMAILS TO DOWNLOAD......PERSONALLY I WOULD APPRECIATE IFYOU WOULDNOT SPAM ME IN THE FUTURE LIKE THIS. If the "list" wants to flame me for this email......fire it up. I am trulyoutraged at the lack of consideration I was NOT shown by Patrick's posting.This is something that should have (in my opinion) been put on the"RODMAKERS" web site to look at if YOU choose too. Nothing worse then coming home to find your mailbox clogged with SPAM. Thank you for showing showing respect in the future to the bandwidth in aposting. David-----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W Date: Friday, October 06, 2000 8:39 AMSubject: guide spacing This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many years ofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Oct 7 19:31:41 2000 e980VeG05959 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:31:33 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Rodmakers Subject: Re: guide spacing As I have been away for I while I should steer clear of this onebut.......most of you know me better than that!Fortunately, here at home I have high speed DSL and fast computer(ahhhhhhhhh!!!) so I am not concerned with trivial download times!Meanwhile in my barracks in Ontario I have an old P100 running on a 33.3Kmodem that should have a hand crank on the side of it, not to mention theturtle slow free ISP that I use there. I would have sat through an allnighter to get my hands on such a valuable article (then again we're talkingabout a freak who would beat a pool to death for 5 hours in freezing rainwith a bamboo stick and wad of feathers/ fur for a sniff of a trout!). I cansee how some others might get a little miffed at that kind of wait, but I amsure that Patrick didn't want to purposely PO anyone. I would not regardinfo on such a noteworthy builder as Mr. Young as being SPAM though!Also I don't think that people should be discouraged from sharing goodstuff like this just because it might "inconvenience" some people.Sorry if thisoffends anyone, Shawn Pineo mep wrote: I'll second that ! Craig Naldrett wrote: Guy's, Patrick may have made a mistake by sending the files as is (myphoneline took forever to download also) but when I started into rodbuilding and queried the list about importing bamboo to Canada Patricksent me 3 culms as a GIFT to get me started (that's very classy in mybooks, & also a Whitehead Agate stripping guide). I have continued thetradition by donating culms to new rodmakers in Calgary/Canmore & theyhave done the same (we're on our second level of payback) so cut himsome slack, I would fish with him anytime!!--CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Oct 7 19:32:41 2000 e980WeG06119 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: Ferrule dimensions I would never have thought to support the end of the female in a livecenter. I have one so will follow your advice. This is very useful info.Many thanks, Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 6:53 PM Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions I used many Super Z's as they were produced in both N.S., andbrass, back inthe 1960's, and they are still perfect today. Some of my PHYrods used themtoo ! However, too many have had good success with those fromREC, to doubtthem. When you ream a hole for a ferrule, you only want to beremoving the last.003"/.004", or so. You will do well to look at the blindhole laps, asshown in the Travers Tool catalog. Look atwww.traverstool.com and ask fortheir master catalog. They are free. These laps will help you get toexcellent final slip fits, by taking the female outgradually, and avoiding"bellmouth". It also is important to support the end of thefemale, whileturning the final O.D., and welt. A live center is perfect for this. GMA from iank@ts.co.nz Sat Oct 7 19:41:52 2000 e980fnG06435 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Steam box Richard, I am just a little suspicious about using steam and flattening nodes at thesame time. I have tried soaking the strips before rough planning but foundthat the previously flattened nodes tended to rise slightly when soaked.Ithen followed advise to soak them before flattening the nodes and to roughplane the soaked striped after the nodes have been flattened. This seemedto work really well, I was able to flatten the nodes and do the roughplanning on a rod in one evening using soaked strips. The problem arose when I was just completing the final planning on the tips,when I gave them a final bend to check they were ok prior to gluing 3 of the6 broke at the nodes towards the end of the tip. A clean break across thenode. I guess I am just a little uncertain as to the affect of heat ,moisture and pressure on the node at the same time. I may have overstressedthe nodes when pressing them but have decided not to repeat theexperiment ,I now keep heat , moisture and pressure in combination away from the nodes. Ian Kearney ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Steam box In a past issue of the Planing Form, someone suggested building a steamboxof the type used by woodworkers to heat strips in preparation forflattening nodes, staightening, etc. This simple tool could be puttogetherin a couple of hours and would simply consist of an elongated wooden boxand an electric kettle. This certainly sounds like a much faster way toperform this task than the traditional heat gun or alcohol lampone- node-at-a-time approach. With a steam box, you could take a strip out,flatten the node in vise #1, take another strip out and flatten it's nodein vise #2, then put strip one back in and pull out strip three, etc. Inaddition, no charring would take place. One question: any idea if all that steam heat could damage the bamboo? Iwould expect the strips to be in the steam heat for about one hour. I'mnotworried about moisture content because the strips will be heat treated inmy air-gun oven after rough planing the strips. Any guitar/violin makers or boatbuilders out there with experience inbending wood? Thanks in advance, Richard from oakmere@carol.net Sat Oct 7 20:20:55 2000 e981KrG07088 Subject: RE: PDF Files Folks: Although I have been reading this list for a year or so, I would appreciateit if folks did not send large PDF or GIF files as attachments. Better tosuggest where it can be found on the WEBsite you use. Thank you, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570- 753-8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 7 21:11:55 2000 e982BrG07789 Subject: Re: Machining ferrules/ now, instructions Hi Ron and list:Great idea, but I can't remember who sent them to me. If that person is out there, could you contact me off list? I have a hard copy, but not one that I could easily post. There are about 8 pages of text. I also have Dave LeClair's tube ferrule info also.I feel like a real a@# for drawing a blank on who sent them. Please accept my apologies.Bob At 07:47 PM 10/7/00 -0600, you wrote:?Bob while we are on the topic why don't you post your instructions so weall can read it. Also itwould be in the archives in which there is very little on this subject.Ron-----Original Message- ----From: bob maulucci Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, October 07, 2000 5:13 PMSubject: Re: Machining ferrules HI Richard:The instruction I have, which I don't recall the source, recommend cuttingthe rod to length well into the process, instead of first. This way youhave a bit more rod to grip, I suppose. Also, their was a bit of discussionrecently that boring is the way to go because reaming is not as accurate.Icould send you the directions I have, if you want.I have not really ventured beyond making ferrule plugs from the bar stockIbought from Sheffield's. That's enough fun for me for now. They arecomingout great however.Bob 1. cut rod to length of ferrule;2. make a starter hole in end of rod;3. bore hole with HSS drill bit 1/64 under final dimension;4. ream hole with correct size reamer;5. machine outside dimensions, welts, etc;6. make serrations (don't have a clue how to make those yet). Is this right? from rmoon@ida.net Sat Oct 7 21:19:11 2000 e982JAG08011 Rodmakers Subject: Re: guide spacing --------------E8C1254F6F77E966CB2E247D Shawn Like you I should probably sit this one out, but I too am outraged thatone individual (or was it two) has the unmitigated gall to attempt tocontrol what is posted to this forum. The material that Patrick sent ispertinent, informative and a valid format for this rodlist, and if somearrogant individual is offended that still gives him NO right to be sooffensive. There is one easy answer for him; it is to send the messageto the rodlist to UNSBSCRIBE. That way he will no longer be spammed andwe will no longer have to listen to childish tantrums.Ralph --------------E8C1254F6F77E966CB2E247D ShawnLike you I should probably sit this one out, but I too am outraged thatone individual (or was it two) has the unmitigated gall to attempt to control pertinent,informative and a valid format for this rodlist, and if some arrogantindividualis offended that still gives him NO right to be so Ralph --------------E8C1254F6F77E966CB2E247D-- from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 7 21:19:12 2000 e982JAG08010 Subject: Re: guide spacing Rodmakers I just want to clarify one thing: the Young article I sent was a link, not a file.I would highly recommend that all offended parties set their e-mail program to not download files bigger than 500k or so. I do this, and it saves me a lot of hassles.Also, Pat is a great guy, he has already said he is sorry. Let's let this one die out for now. Please?Best regards, from fquinchat@locl.net Sat Oct 7 21:48:10 2000 e982m8G08743 Subject: Machining Ferrules This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01B8_01C030A8.DFB390A0 Richard, Here is the procedure I use to machine ferrules from tubing. It is =based on instructions from David LeClair. Ferrule Machining Procedure First machine the female Machine water checks from =BC brass rod .002 undersized and 1/8 thick. 1.. Bore the entire length of ferrule using 14/64 drill for #14 =ferrule.2.. Machine slight chamfer for the live center.3.. Coat water check with flux and press in to proper depth.4.. Slice a sliver of silver solder and drop on top of check from =the welt end.5.. Holding tube vertically in vice, heat OD with propane torch =until solder melts.6.. Rechuck in lathe.7.. Using a live center, turn entire OD to dimension leaving a 1/8 =welt. Last cut should be .002 in preparation for polishing.8.. Assuming a .2500 barrel ID:9.. Drill to water check with 15/64 drill.10.. Drill to water check with "D" drill. Use WD40 as coolant.11.. Install .2500 straight fluted reamer. Flood hole with WD40. =Feed rapidly to water check and retract to minimize heating.12.. Break corner of ID again to accept live center.13.. Using live center, turn OD in thread wrap area.14.. Progressively polish OD 800, 1200 & 1500 grit w/d paper.15.. Set compound at 7 degree taper and progressively machine until =wall at end of ferrule is .010 thick.16.. Index to parting tool, remove live center, hold ferrule with =bamboo skewer and cut off.Male ferrule 1.. Bore the entire length of ferrule using 14/64 drill for #14 =ferrule.2.. Drill 1/8 deep c=92bore in end of tube to accept water check3.. Holding tube vertically in vice, place fluxed check in end of =tube.4.. Heat tube until solder flows and allow to cool.5.. Re chuck in lathe with just over the engagement length =protruding from chuck. This is necessary to prevent deflection during =machining.6.. Machine to the female barrel dia +.0005.7.. Rechuck tube to expose entire length and cut thread wrap area =OD.8.. Set compound at 7 degrees and progressively machine until wall =at tip is .010.9.. Polish.10.. Index to parting tool and cut off.10/17/99 db ------=_NextPart_000_01B8_01C030A8.DFB390A0 Richard, Here is the procedure I use to = LeClair. Ferrule Machining ProcedureFirst machine the female Machine water checks from ¼ brass rod .002 undersized and thick. ferrule.Machine slight chamfer for the live center.Coat water check with flux and press in to proper depth.Slice a sliver of silver solder and drop on top of check from = end.Holding tube vertically in vice, heat OD with propane torch = melts.Rechuck in lathe.Using a live center, turn entire OD to dimension leaving a 1/8 = Last cut should be .002 in preparation for polishing.Assuming a .2500 barrel ID:Drill to water check with 15/64 drill.Drill to water check with "D" drill. Use WD40 as =coolant.Install .2500 straight fluted reamer. Flood hole with WD40. Feed = to water check and retract to minimize heating.Break corner of ID again to accept live center.Using live center, turn OD in thread wrap area.Progressively polish OD 800, 1200 & 1500 grit w/d =paper.Set compound at 7 degree taper and progressively machine until = end of ferrule is .010 thick.Index to parting tool, remove live center, hold ferrule with = skewer and cut off.Male ferrule ferrule.Drill 1/8 deep c’bore in end of tube to accept water =checkHolding tube vertically in vice, place fluxed check in end of =tube.Heat tube until solder flows and allow to cool.Re chuck in lathe with just over the engagement length = chuck. This is necessary to prevent deflection during =machining.Machine to the female barrel dia +.0005.Rechuck tube to expose entire length and cut thread wrap area =OD.Set compound at 7 degrees and progressively machine until wall = .010.Polish.Index to parting tool and cut off. 10/17/99db ------=_NextPart_000_01B8_01C030A8.DFB390A0-- from cadams46@juno.com Sun Oct 8 00:57:14 2000 e985vDG11222 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:57:07 EDT Subject: Rodmakers Gathering Query I would like to thank the folks that responded saying they'd try to makeit to a Salt Lake gathering. I would be interested if someone who hasarranged on of these gathering previously would share a few tips. I haveyet to attend a gathering and could certainly use some pointers. ThanksC.R. Adams from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 01:07:49 2000 e9867mG11481 Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:07:42 -0700 Sun, 08 Oct 2000 06:07:42 GMT Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions FILETIME=[11E601D0:01C030EE] From: "Richard Nantel" Subject: Ferrule dimensionsDate: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:56:08 -0400 To complicate my life even more and slow down my rod building, I've decidedto begin making my own ferrules by machining nickle silver rod. I'vedownloaded the Super Z dimension chart generously posted by Chris Bogartonhis site and Ed Hartzell graciously sent me the same dimensions by mail awhile back. The dimensions of the ferrules on the Super Z patent chart are verydifferent from the ferrules I have purchased from Classic SportingEnterprises and REC. For example, the overall length of the standard 16/64male ferrule from Classic Sporting Enterprises is 1.673 inches. Accordingto the Super Z patent document, the overall length of its 16/64" maleferrule (dimension labeled L1 on the chart) is 1.38 inches. The slide onthe CSE ferrule measures .957". The slide on the patent chart is only .800.Overall, the patent chart's dimensions are about 80% the size ones I'mholding in my hands. Here then, are the questions: 1. If the CSE and REC ferrules aren't based on the Super Z dimensions (yetare very similar to one another) what are their dimesions based upon?2. Are the dimensions on the Super Z chart for truncated ferrules?3. If so, are they long enough for two piece rods?4. Is anyone else out there machining ferrule? Thanks in advance, Richard Hi richard, The other ferrules are based on what the designers wanted the ratios to be. There is no 'rule' about what the dimensions have to be. I still like the 'Z' dimensions for all my ferrules, whether for a 2 or a 3 pc rod. I have had some trouble with the truncated CSE ferrules on applications where the stresses were high. Bellinger ferrules were patterned after the original 'Z' dimensions.#2 No#3 Yes#4 Yes, lots of us are machining our ferrules. I started in the mid 80's with bar stock. The procedure you mentioned will work but don't part off the female until the OD is shaped and invest in the correct letter drills to drill out the ID just a few thousandths under and finish with the reamer.I have also used Dave LeClairs HW tubing, faster and easier to use. The Hardness and alloy was better also. Now I am using the tubing that resulted from John Zimney's efforts. In each case there was less material to remove and sped up the process. In conclusion, you now have the freedom to machine a ferrule of the dimension that you see fit and also of the type that you prefer, whether that is a Swiss type or a Leonard type, even a Montague style if you have a particularly evil frame of mind.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Oct 8 07:54:17 2000 e98CsHG15153 Subject: re:Guide spacing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C03105.550592C0 Patrick,Thanks for the guide spacing info! No problem with the download or =printout, and I appreciate your having taken the time to get the info =into our hands!! As I understand the history of rodbuilding, 40 years =ago we would have had to give our blood to get this info, now it is =offered freely! Thanks for keeping this an open forum for help and advice, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C03105.550592C0 Patrick,Thanks for the guide spacing = with the download or printout, and I appreciate your having taken the = info, now it is offered freely! Thanks for keeping this an open forum= advice, Mike ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C03105.550592C0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Oct 8 09:03:36 2000 e98E3aG18335 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 09:03:33 -0500 ,"'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing Yes, Patrick made a mistake, but to flame an offering of a valuable piecewith "spam" claims, was not in keeping with the tone of fellowship we havehere normally ! I'm no computer whiz, by a long shot, and most of us arestill learning about these machines ! GMA from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Oct 8 09:44:14 2000 e98EiDG18976 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: guide spacing Jesus Gentlemen, I just walked away and let the computer work through the download - bigdeal! The man was trying to share information with the rest of us. Let'sgive him and it a break. We get in trouble when we try to qualify andquantify contributions from others. Give it up and get on with it. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: guide spacing I am outraged that you would present this download on an "involuntarybasis". I don't appreciate having my e-mail program literally blockadedbythis, and evidently a succeeding download that I can't delete. David LaTouche At 08:21 AM 10/6/00 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many yearsofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\BUILDI~1.PDF" from rmoon@ida.net Sun Oct 8 10:11:48 2000 e98FBlG19447 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Gathering Query There are a lot of rod builders in the intermountain area. More thanenough to make a rod builders gathering feasible. I have attended a fewand was responsible for the rod builders symposium at the FFF Conclavein Idaho Falls. I think that it should be a go. You might alsoconsider timing it to coincide with the ISE Show at the Salt Palace. Itmight increase attendance. Go For it.Ralph from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Oct 8 10:55:16 2000 e98FtEG20182 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:55:06 +0800 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:55:02 +0800 Subject: Re: guide spacing "'rodmakers'" You don't suppose that PDF file had some sort of strange and un- naturaldigitised sub liminal behaviouar altering substance attached do you? Itseems to have affected some normaly polite, thoughtful and tollerant peopleadversly.My hope is Patrick and anybody else out there watching all this take placerealise as a rule people on this list don't ordinarily get this much flackwhen all they try to do is be helpful.Patrick is obviously made of sterner stuff than most and I feel sorry forhim, I mean even dare I mention his name Terry Ackland doesn't deserve thismuch grief. I know not a few people who'd have posted a few mpgs, tiffs,exe's and anything else laying around to the list as a parting shot. Pleaseget off his case, he gets the point. Tony At 08:49 AM 10/8/00 -0600, Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote:Jesus Gentlemen, I just walked away and let the computer work through the download - bigdeal! The man was trying to share information with the rest of us. Let'sgive him and it a break. We get in trouble when we try to qualify andquantify contributions from others. Give it up and get on with it. Jim----- Original Message -----From: "David La Touche" Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 12:56 PMSubject: Re: guide spacing I am outraged that you would present this download on an "involuntarybasis". I don't appreciate having my e-mail program literally blockadedbythis, and evidently a succeeding download that I can't delete. David LaTouche At 08:21 AM 10/6/00 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many yearsofrodmaking and teaching that he did. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\BUILDI~1.PDF" /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from rp43640@online-club.de Sun Oct 8 11:21:07 2000 e98GL6G20581 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:20:39 +0200 (METDST) "'jfoster@gte.net'" Subject: Re: PHY tapers Thank you Chris for posting the tapers to the list. I am just back from ashortfishing trip to Denmark.One question though are those listed tapers all measured without varnishexceptthe last two (para 17 and para 14)? Christian "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote: Here goes: Bob doerr 9 ft 9wt tip .092 .108 .134 145 174 192207 220 244 250 264 26517/64 ferrule Butt 266 272 282 302 312326 338 360 367 368 370 370 Midge 6'3" 4wt tip 066 082 100 110 130 146160 172 18412/64 ferrule Butt 190 196 206 218 234 240248 248 248 Driggs 7'2" 5wt tip 075 098 108 124 136 146166 196 196 19813/64 ferrule Butt 201 203 215 225 240 260260 270 275 278 martha marie7'6" 6wt tip 068 093 116 133 149165 182 198 215 21814/64 ferrule butt 218 231 244 257 270 283296 303 303 303 perfectionist7'6" 4wt14/64 ferrule tip 066 090 106 116 132 142158 184 202 218butt 218 224 230 244 250 264274 278 284 288 brightwater7'6" 4wt14/64 ferrule tip 066 090 106 116 132 142158 184 202 214butt 218 224 230 244 246 260268 270 274 276 para 15 8' 6wt dry tip 079 097 124 133 154 168190 212 229 23915/64 ferrule wet tip 078 094 112 128 141164 195 208 225 239butt 240 242 255 260 274 277294 300 300 300 para 17 8'6" 9wt THESE MEASUREMENTS ARE OVER VARNISH17/64 ferruletip 095 114 142 155 173202 222 236 248 260 268butt 275 277 286 298 310323 327 336 340 342 342 para 14 7'9" 5wt14/64 ferrule tip 074 092 100 123 141 151168 184 198butt 198 218 224 243 247272 274 285 285 alright, folks, that's all I've got. I can't find the page for the boat rod (encampment rod) in my file. I hopeI haven't lost it somewhere. If someone else has it, please post it.Thanks. Chris o from CCGGLOBAL@aol.com Sun Oct 8 11:21:08 2000 e98GL7G20589 Subject: Lathes Rodmakers Help !, First I do not have a PDF file attached, No downloads, but I am asking for your opinions regarding Lathes due to the fact that I am going to buy one. My question is: Is the Sherline 4400 with the longer bed, big enough to handle most rod-building tasks ?, I have looked at Southbend, Atlas, Delta, The Taig Micro-Lathe, Record, Jet, Grizzly. I want to turn cork, make reel seats, do ferrule station work, eventually do some ferrules of my own, and other rod related metal projects. I would like to find one lathe that can do all of the projects, rather than getting a wood lathe and a metal lathe, but maybe I can't have my cake and eat it too. Your comments appreciated and Thank you in advance. Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Oct 8 11:33:20 2000 e98GXJG21037 Subject: Re: Lathes I really like my long bed Sherline for everything. However, I don't think it is as good as some of the heavier lathes for ferrule making. I would check out those Harbor Freight lathes . They seem to have some good heft behind them. Sometimes I feel I have put way to much money into the Sherline to get it to do what I want. With a 3/8" tool post you could do a lot more right from the get go, and you would not have to be limited to suppliers, etc....Good luck.My .02Bob At 12:20 PM 10/8/00 -0400, CCGGLOBAL@aol.com wrote:Rodmakers Help !, First I do not have a PDF file attached, No downloads, butI am asking for your opinions regarding Lathes due to the fact that I amgoing to buy one. My question is: Is the Sherline 4400 with the longer bed,big enough to handle most rod-building tasks ?, I have looked at Southbend,Atlas, Delta, The Taig Micro-Lathe, Record, Jet, Grizzly. I want to turn cork, make reel seats, do ferrule station work, eventually dosome ferrules of my own, and other rod related metal projects. I would like to find one lathe that can do all of the projects, rather thangetting a wood lathe and a metal lathe, but maybe I can't have my cake andeat it too. Your comments appreciated and Thank you in advance. Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from brewer@teleport.com Sun Oct 8 11:47:08 2000 e98Gl8G21362 (216.26.32.133) Subject: Re: Lathes Bill, I own a Harbor Freight and the main problem with it is the length ofthe bed. I have had to rig it to give me a little more length for cork work.Also, the quality is not comparable to a Jet or something like that, but itgets the job done. It seems that most of these lathes have somecompromiseassociated with them. I'm not sure there is a perfect one! Randy ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathes I really like my long bed Sherline for everything. However, I don't thinkit is as good as some of the heavier lathes for ferrule making. I wouldcheck out those Harbor Freight lathes . They seem to have some good heftbehind them. Sometimes I feel I have put way to much money into theSherline to get it to do what I want. With a 3/8" tool post you could do alot more right from the get go, and you would not have to be limited tosuppliers, etc....Good luck.My .02Bob At 12:20 PM 10/8/00 -0400, CCGGLOBAL@aol.com wrote:Rodmakers Help !, First I do not have a PDF file attached, No downloads,butI am asking for your opinions regarding Lathes due to the fact that I amgoing to buy one. My question is: Is the Sherline 4400 with the longerbed,big enough to handle most rod-building tasks ?, I have looked atSouthbend,Atlas, Delta, The Taig Micro-Lathe, Record, Jet, Grizzly. I want to turn cork, make reel seats, do ferrule station work, eventuallydosome ferrules of my own, and other rod related metal projects. I would like to find one lathe that can do all of the projects, ratherthangetting a wood lathe and a metal lathe, but maybe I can't have my cakeandeat it too. Your comments appreciated and Thank you in advance. Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Oct 8 11:55:49 2000 e98GtmG21657 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:55:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathes Having started with a small little "hobby" lathe not unlike the Sherline,I'd say go for at least a 9" lathe, even if it has to be a used version. Ibought an old, used 10", and learned quite allot with it. Then I sold it formore than I'd paid, and bought a new 10", that has served me well since 1968! GMA from stpete@netten.net Sun Oct 8 12:01:26 2000 e98H1PG21902; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:14:51 -0500 Dennis Higham , Harry Boyd,Ken Cole , Mike Biondo Subject: Serious Plea re:SRG2000 Friends, We are now a mere 17 days away from the Southern Rodmaker's Gathering2000. I am heading up the 'eats' department of this grand event. I ambegging those of you who definitely / probably / might attend to respondso that I can get as accurate a head count as possible for the food. Asyou know, we do not limit the attendance numbers, and the registrationis only $25. Mike Biondo is treasurer this year and is accepting advanceregistrations (please!!). Please contact him if you plan to attend. I know that some will wait to register at the event. What I need is forEVERY person who has not officially registered, but will or might attendto send me the status of their chances of showing up. All I need is your name and one of the following descriptions:1. Definitely coming2. Probably coming3. Might show up4. Trying, but don't count on me Thanks a million. I think this will be the best one yet! Rick C. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Oct 8 12:01:52 2000 e98H1pG21990 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 12:01:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathes BTW, Jet has more than one grade of lathe. Their top model comes with atestsheet, showing its accuracy ! Their best model is far above anything HarborFreight has, and so is a decent Atlas, even used ! GMA from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Oct 8 12:25:12 2000 e98HPBG22745 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:25:10 +0200 Subject: Sv: guide spacing e98HPCG22746 Tony Young wrote I kind of miss Terry, don't You, Tony? Whatever happened to him? regards,carsten from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Oct 8 12:40:18 2000 e98HeGG23181 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Lathes I would like to find one lathe that can do all of theprojects, rather thangetting a wood lathe and a metal lathe, but maybe I can'thave my cake andeat it too. I'm happy with my Taig but now that I'm getting the bug to do moremachining, I wish I had bought something that can cut threads. Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Oct 8 12:44:27 2000 e98HiQG23432 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: guide spacing Terry is alive and well here in the suburbs of Montreal. I saw him lastweekend. He's building a second milling machine. He says he's improving onthe first design. Considering his first milling machine could make aperfect 4 ft strip at .024" and could mill all the strips for a 2 pc 2 tiprod in about three hours, I'm not sure how much better his design could be. I'll send him your kind wishes. Regards, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu JorgensenSent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:29 PM Cc: 'rodmakers'Subject: Sv: guide spacing Tony Young wrote deserve thismuch grief> I kind of miss Terry, don't You, Tony? Whatever happened to him? regards,carsten from rmoon@ida.net Sun Oct 8 13:51:18 2000 e98IpHG24756 Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing I miss him too Tony. Terry was never mean, he was just the perfectprototype of a cantankerous old rod maker. Shucks nothing wrong withthat. I am one of the breed myself.Ralph from EESweet@aol.com Sun Oct 8 14:38:37 2000 e98JcbG25849 Subject: Stuck ferrule sage-the end Hi All, Just a quick update on the conclusion of my stuck ferrule problem. By using a ferrule puller I was able finally get the ferrule apart. Unfortunately, in the process I also caused the ferrules to separate from the cane. I was able to get the female off without a problem, but mangled the male. I tried the Attach epoxy solvent to no avail, though I can report that it had no impact on the Titebond II that I used to glue the rod, and it's the most effective thing ever for removing varnish! In the end I had to purchase new ferrules, which are now mounted, and am re-varnishing the rod. That effort isn'tgoing as well as I'd like, so I'll probably strip off the guides and refinish the whole thing this winter. As an aside, I've been purchasing ferrules from Angler's Workshop, and while happy with the first couple sets I got, I've noticed that both sets I've used on this rod have had imperfections (burrs) on the inside of the female ferrule that undoubtedly contributed to them getting stuck in the first place. I took greater care to get rid of them on this set, but has anyone else noticed this problem with this supplier or did I just get a bad batch? I don't mean to reflect poorly on them, they're still my main supplier of rodbuilding components, and I will be letting them know of the problems I've had, so hopefully there won't be a repeat. Heading up to the Deschutes in Oregon next Friday for 9 days of trout and steelhead, has anyone been there recently? Any advice or reports? Cheers,Eric from timklein@uswest.net Sun Oct 8 15:48:43 2000 e98KmgG27445 Subject: Re: Lathes Bill, I've got the longbed Sherline and I'm thrilled with it. I would tend toavoid the Harbor Freight 7x10, though I've heard better reports about the HF9x20 for rod work. I had the 7x10 and it wasn't long enough to do gripsunless you want to turn them on a dowel or something and then glue themontothe blank later. I also had problems with accessories that I purchased fromHF that didn't work well. The 7x10 is very sturdy and was accurate enough Sherline. The Sherline is a remarkable little machine and has worked out very well forme. One of the nicest things about it is its small size. I have limitedspace and by mounting it onto a piece of shelf stock I can easily store itor move it wherever I need it. The longbed has plenty of room to shape gripswith the cork glued directly to the blank, though you'll want to make surethe dimensions of the rods you intend to make will fit through the bore inthe headstock. It's only .405" so if you intend to make larger rods or rodswith significantly swelled butts, you might have a problem. I haven't gottenaround to making Nickel Silver ferrules yet, but I had some aluminum aroundand had no problem turning aluminum to the tolerances required. NS shouldbeno different. The main drawback is the price. As Bob Maulucci mentioned, you can spend afortune on accessories, but at least you know they'll work, since they'respecifically designed for the Sherline. Another HUGE plus is that parts arereadily available for the Sherline. This is something that definitely can'tbe said for the HF lathes. I subscribe to a 7x10 bulletin board that islittered with messages from users who have been waiting weeks, and evenmonths for spare parts. There may be better choices overall, but I don't think you'd regret theSherline for rod work. (of course, if you're like me, it'll just get you started in a whole newhobby!. Now I lust for a bigger lathe and a mill to make larger metalprojects) Tim Klein ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Lathes Rodmakers Help !, First I do not have a PDF file attached, No downloads,butI am asking for your opinions regarding Lathes due to the fact that I amgoing to buy one. My question is: Is the Sherline 4400 with the longerbed,big enough to handle most rod-building tasks ?, I have looked atSouthbend,Atlas, Delta, The Taig Micro-Lathe, Record, Jet, Grizzly. I want to turn cork, make reel seats, do ferrule station work, eventuallydosome ferrules of my own, and other rod related metal projects. I would like to find one lathe that can do all of the projects, ratherthangetting a wood lathe and a metal lathe, but maybe I can't have my cake andeat it too. Your comments appreciated and Thank you in advance. Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Oct 8 20:30:06 2000 e991U3G03005 Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing e991U6G03007 Terry is quite possibly not a bad bloke if you ever got to know him but hewas what I once saw most politely referred to as a curmudgeon.He would take the devil's advocate role in pretty much any subject on thelist, which was fine but in the end it almost always wound up becomingquite inflammatory and personal then degenerated into a sniping match.Apart from that one fault in his style he at least voiced a dissentingpoint of view to the majority and made people think outside the square,that is if you didn't just get pi$$ed off with his manner in the mean time.Somebody once told me he met Terry on a hot summers day fishing and attheend of the day when everybody mustered at the car park and general heatstoke was the order of the day Terry produced a very large esky (cooler)full of beer for all to enjoy, Australian beer at that I'm told so he can'treally be all that bad when it matters.Where ever he is and whatever he's doing I'm sure he's annoying somebodyand possibly lots of somebodys all at once to his heart's content, andhaving a great time at it. :-) Tony At 11:05 AM 10/8/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:carsten & tony, it was sort of my impression that itwas terry ackland that was giving everyone grief. ami wrong? timothy --- Carsten_Jorgensen wrote:Tony Young wrote doesn't deserve thismuch grief> I kind of miss Terry, don't You, Tony? Whateverhappened to him? regards,carsten ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from mevans@acxiom.com Sun Oct 8 20:48:09 2000 e991m8G03536; crichton.acxiom.com ;Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:54:45 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers Dennis Higham,Harry Boyd , Ken Cole,Mike Biondo Subject: RE: Serious Plea re:SRG2000 Definitely coming. I'll not be there for all the meals. -----Original Message----- Subject: Serious Plea re:SRG2000 Friends, We are now a mere 17 days away from the Southern Rodmaker's Gathering2000. I am heading up the 'eats' department of this grand event. I ambegging those of you who definitely / probably / might attend to respondso that I can get as accurate a head count as possible for the food. Asyou know, we do not limit the attendance numbers, and the registrationis only $25. Mike Biondo is treasurer this year and is accepting advanceregistrations (please!!). Please contact him if you plan to attend. I know that some will wait to register at the event. What I need is forEVERY person who has not officially registered, but will or might attendto send me the status of their chances of showing up. All I need is your name and one of the following descriptions:1. Definitely coming2. Probably coming3. Might show up4. Trying, but don't count on me Thanks a million. I think this will be the best one yet! Rick C. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Oct 8 21:31:08 2000 e992V7G04866 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:31:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Gathering Query Chase,Let's see, a wise man once said that the hardest part of painting yourhouse is opening the paint can. Set a date, and go for it! When I put ourfirst Southern Rodmakers Gathering together I tried really hard to keepthings simple. I simply wrote (emailed) all the rod makers I knew from thislist, and a few others. I wrote all the flyshops in two states (There areless than a dozen in Louisiana and Arkansas combined) And as guys madethecommitment to attend, I asked them to volunteer to help, and to presentprograms.Our initial gathering received a GREAT boost when Wayne Cattanachdecided to attend. Wayne did a free beginners workshop for us, and thatreally helped draw a crowd. A beginner's workshop is often a great idea.Wehad 32 attendees the first year, and I think 67 the second. I suspect we'llhave that many or more this year at SRG.Let me know how I can help you, or if you have any questions we needto answer off-list. Harry Boyd cadams46@juno.com wrote: I would be interested if someone who has arranged on of these gatheringpreviously would share a few tips. I have yet to attend a gathering andcould certainly use some pointers. Thanks from lblove@omniglobal.net Sun Oct 8 22:02:11 2000 e9932AG05551 Subject: Re: Lathes I am one of the fools that has been waiting around for parts for a HF9"x20".It seems that HF does not stock any parts for the machines that they sell.I am waiting for the two main drive belts for the machine. I was told thatthey wouldtake 6 to 8 weeks to get ordered and shipped. I have a total of 6 beltson order with 6 different companies waiting for the first one to come upwith it.The machine came with "inspection certificates" which are a joke... but thenagainI know that a few "better" companies also push this kind of paper work.Jet,Grizzly, SuperMax and Web are as bad as HF when it comes to this littleproblem. There was a write upa few years ago about Jets 12" gearhead machine done by Home ShopMachinistwhich stated that the problem was pretty well universal with Chinesemachines.Most of these machines are all made in the same plant regardless of thenameon themachine. The majority of the machines are produced under the Quang Chonamein China.If possible get a machine that was put together in Taiwan as opposed to RedChina.If you do buy from one of these companies, dont sign the paper for thedriver untilthe machine is unboxed and you have checked out everything on the machine. If you have the money and can find a "good" used American machine snatchitup fast.There are a few places on the east coast that have parts for Logan, Atlas,Southbend,and Clausing machines. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathes This is something that definitely can'tbe said for the HF lathes. I subscribe to a 7x10 bulletin board that islittered with messages from users who have been waiting weeks, and evenmonths for spare parts. There may be better choices overall, but I don't think you'd regret theSherline for rod work. (of course, if you're like me, it'll just get you started in a whole newhobby!. Now I lust for a bigger lathe and a mill to make larger metalprojects) Tim Klein from lblove@omniglobal.net Sun Oct 8 22:04:14 2000 e9934DG05734 , Subject: Re: Lathes Sorry for not singing the previous post Brad ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathes I am one of the fools that has been waiting around for parts for a HF9"x20". from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Oct 8 22:16:59 2000 e993GxG06081 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:17:00 -0500 , Subject: Re: Lathes Brad, I have two close friends who have high end Jet 10", and 12" metallathes, that came with tolerance readout sheets, and they are for real.These machines weigh close to 1200/1500 lbs., and it's in the massivecastings. I don't know this, but perhaps only these top of the line Jets aremade in Taiwan, and the other, lower grades in China ? These lathes runupwards of $2500/$3500 now ! They certainly aren't in the HF class. GMA from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Oct 8 22:23:00 2000 e993MxG06340 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: Was guide spacing is now Terry Ackland I met Terry Ackland through this list nearly three years ago. I discoveredTerry lives only 15 minutes away from me in Point-Claire, Quebec. I was atthe stage of rod building where I was amassing the tools required and hadhit a wall at getting good planing forms made. Terry had just placed apost on this list saying he had built a milling machine and didn't need touse planing forms any longer. Some list members were really upset at him I sheepishly and half-jokingly sent him an e-mail asking if I could havehis forms if he really didn't need them anymore. He wrote back: "sure." Aweek went by before I dropped by his home to pick them up. To be honestwith you, I was extremely apprehensive about meeting him. Terry had areputation of being a real grouch. The man who came to the door was funny,king, generous, and very smart. He lent me his forms, books on rodbuilding, gave me glue. I'd call him regularly and ask his advice. He wasalways patient and helpful beyond the imaginable. Without Terry's help and advice, my journey through rod building would notbe as rich and rewarding. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 9:43 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sv: guide spacing Terry is quite possibly not a bad bloke if you ever got toknow him but hewas what I once saw most politely referred to as a curmudgeon.He would take the devil's advocate role in pretty much anysubject on thelist, which was fine but in the end it almost always wound up becomingquite inflammatory and personal then degenerated into a sniping match.Apart from that one fault in his style he at least voiced a dissentingpoint of view to the majority and made people think outsidethe square,that is if you didn't just get pi$$ed off with his manner inthe mean time.Somebody once told me he met Terry on a hot summers dayfishing and at theend of the day when everybody mustered at the car park andgeneral heatstoke was the order of the day Terry produced a very largeesky (cooler)full of beer for all to enjoy, Australian beer at that I'mtold so he can'treally be all that bad when it matters.Where ever he is and whatever he's doing I'm sure he'sannoying somebodyand possibly lots of somebodys all at once to his heart's content, andhaving a great time at it. :-) Tony from gjm80301@yahoo.com Sun Oct 8 22:53:50 2000 e993roG06952 2000 20:53:49 PDT Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing, now Terry I miss the heck out of Terry. I missed a lot of his antics sincethey happened before I joined, so I went to the archives and lookedhim up! --- Tony Young wrote:Terry is quite possibly not a bad bloke if you ever got to know himbut hewas what I once saw most politely referred to as a curmudgeon.He would take the devil's advocate role in pretty much any subjecton thelist, which was fine but in the end it almost always wound upbecomingquite inflammatory and personal then degenerated into a snipingmatch.> Apart from that one fault in his style he at least voiced adissentingpoint of view to the majority and made people think outside thesquare,that is if you didn't just get pi$$ed off with his manner in themean time.Somebody once told me he met Terry on a hot summers day fishing andat theend of the day when everybody mustered at the car park and generalheatstoke was the order of the day Terry produced a very large esky(cooler)full of beer for all to enjoy, Australian beer at that I'm told sohe can'treally be all that bad when it matters.Where ever he is and whatever he's doing I'm sure he's annoyingsomebodyand possibly lots of somebodys all at once to his heart's content,andhaving a great time at it. :-) Tony At 11:05 AM 10/8/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:carsten & tony, it was sort of my impression that itwas terry ackland that was giving everyone grief. ami wrong? timothy --- Carsten_Jorgensen wrote:Tony Young wrote doesn't deserve thismuch grief> I kind of miss Terry, don't You, Tony? Whateverhappened to him? regards,carsten ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Oct 8 23:07:27 2000 e9947QG07361 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:07:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing, now Terry I always thought Terry was "pulling our chain" sort of, with many of his offthe wall comments. Perhaps it was because things seemed too staid, orreserved ? Who knows, but I never took him seriously. GMA from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 23:29:53 2000 e994TqG08618 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:29:47 -0700 Mon, 09 Oct 2000 04:29:47 GMT Subject: Re: Lathes FILETIME=[8E322960:01C031A9] From: "nobler" , Subject: Re: LathesDate: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:22:20 -0500 Brad, I have two close friends who have high end Jet 10", and 12" metallathes, that came with tolerance readout sheets, and they are for real.These machines weigh close to 1200/1500 lbs., and it's in the massivecastings. I don't know this, but perhaps only these top of the line Jets aremade in Taiwan, and the other, lower grades in China ? These lathes runupwards of $2500/$3500 now ! They certainly aren't in the HF class. GMA I have one of the aformentioned 12" Taiwan made Jet lathes and it has been an extremely accurate well made machine, I don't think that any machinemade in Red China is going to be acceptable for making ferrules, GMA can verify that their attempts to make precision model airplane engines has resulted in alot of poorly made and performing hanger queens out there.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from can@telusplanet.net Sun Oct 8 23:47:21 2000 [199.185.220.239] (may be forged)) e994lGG09076 Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:47:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing Terry is currently debating on the newsgroup rec.outdoors.fishing.fly (subject: Bamboo History Reborn) with GeorgeGehrke (Bastard Rods) about the relative merits of their "production"beveler systems, has been going on for awhile, good entertainment.-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Oct 9 05:05:57 2000 e99A5tG13305 Subject: Re: Lathes Organization: vet Allen On the other hand, the Silkworm missiles work just fine! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathes From: "nobler" , Subject: Re: LathesDate: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:22:20 -0500 Brad, I have two close friends who have high end Jet 10", and 12" metallathes, that came with tolerance readout sheets, and they are for real.These machines weigh close to 1200/1500 lbs., and it's in the massivecastings. I don't know this, but perhaps only these top of the line Jetsaremade in Taiwan, and the other, lower grades in China ? These lathes runupwards of $2500/$3500 now ! They certainly aren't in the HF class. GMA I have one of the aformentioned 12" Taiwan made Jet lathes and it hasbeenan extremely accurate well made machine, I don't think that any machinemadein Red China is going to be acceptable for making ferrules, GMA can verifythat their attempts to make precision model airplane engines has resultedinalot of poorly made and performing hanger queens out there.A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile athttp://profiles.msn.com. from dnorl@uswest.net Mon Oct 9 06:56:48 2000 e99BukG14524 (63.228.7.157) "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing, now Terry Not only that but I got a number of good ideas and techniques from Terry.Both on and off list. Beats me how we can be so critical of others on thelist. why do we want to waste all that time worrying about the guy who ismad at Patrick Why not let him be mad at Patrick and just check him off ourfishing partner list. Live and let live I say.Dave Norling-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing, now Terry I always thought Terry was "pulling our chain" sort of, with many of hisoffthe wall comments. Perhaps it was because things seemed too staid, orreserved ? Who knows, but I never took him seriously. GMA from brookside.rod@juno.com Mon Oct 9 07:59:19 2000 e99CxIG15466 Subject: heat treating oven available Good morning list; Went fishing this past Saturday instead of spending another day in the shop. Stopped at a fly shop near home waters, The Housatonic River in north westConnecticut. Found that the proprietor of this shop had recently taken in abrand new professionally made (bamboo) heat treating oven which he isoffering for sale. It appears to be built after the description offered byWayne in his book, is 60 inches long and has thermostat and connect wiring. Interested persons could email him directly; Harold MacMillan, The HousatonicFly Shop, email: HFLYSHOP@aol.com. Normal disclaimers apply. Gary from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 08:37:08 2000 e99Db8G17152 2000 06:37:04 PDT Subject: Motors for Dipping I was at the American Scientific Surplus site and noticed that theyhave some 2/3 an 1 rpm timing motors for $2-$3 that would work forpulling sections. Their stock comes and goes with the wind. http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?sction=6 Usual disclaimers. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Oct 9 10:20:28 2000 e99FKRG20512 Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:21:02 -0500 Subject: Re: heat treating oven available I just received a gorgeous heat treating oven from Bret Reiter. It has amica strip element, rheostat control, and is built like a Sherman tank !Extremely good quality ! No interest, blah, blah ! GMA from piscator@crosswinds.net Mon Oct 9 11:11:51 2000 e99GBoG22522 Subject: wrap varnishing/drying set-up Hiya- Anyone have plans or pictures for a solid, easy to use rig tovarnish and dry 4 - 6 rod sections at once? I'm going nuts trying torefinish a pile of rods with only one turning motor! Thanks in advance for any help Brian from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 9 11:15:46 2000 e99GFjG22757 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Machining ferrules Richard,Making the serrations on the ferrules is the easiest part. I use aslitting saw and arbor that I got from ENCO ( about 25 or so with extrablades) You can make your slit as wide or narrow as you want within reason,but I make mine with a 0.010" slitting saw. There may be better ways, but Ichuck my slitting saw and arbor in the lathe, pull my tool post off and puta dividing head on the crossfeed, and slowly drive the ferrule into theblade with the crossfeed to the depth I want for the serrations. I makethree cuts and with the dividing head you can index and make three cuts(gives you six tabs) perfectly spaced.As for indexing or dividing heads, you can spend as much or as little asyou want. Mine cost about $500, BUT you can buy a cheap one from ENCOforaround $40 that will do the same thing. You will also need to buy some 5Ccollets, available also from ENCO or any machine shop supply house, to fitthe outside diameters of the ferrules you want to serrate. my jewelers saws and the arbor for it. Any machine shop supply houseshouldhave everything you need. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Machining ferrules As I just mentioned, I'm beginning to machine ferrules from nickle silverrod. This is my introduction to working with metal and a lathe. Since I'mso new at this, I suspect I may not be doing things in the correct order.I'm practicing on cheap brass rod for now and saving my nickle silver forwhen I actually know what I'm doing. For anyone who's experienced in thistask, what is the order of the steps required in machining ferrules? 1. cut rod to length of ferrule;2. make a starter hole in end of rod;3. bore hole with HSS drill bit 1/64 under final dimension;4. ream hole with correct size reamer;5. machine outside dimensions, welts, etc;6. make serrations (don't have a clue how to make those yet). Is this right? Thanks, Richard from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 9 11:23:30 2000 e99GNUG23157 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: wrap varnishing/drying set-up Brian,Your best bet would probably be to build several different single motordipping rigs. If you try to do several rods at once, and you are varnishingover wraps and guides, then you'll inevitably have different stopping pointsalong the rods... in other words, you be hitting that switch a bunch oftimes to stop and go on several sections at once. If you drew 4 tipssections at the same time, each with 6 guides on them, with differentspacing, then you would have to stop the motor 24 times, at two minutes perguide (at least that's how long I stop below each guide), for 48 minutes ofjust sitting and watching your clock, then another 20 minutes or so for themotor to pull out a 48 inch section... so, IF nothing goes wrong, and IF youdon't have any bugs land on your finish while it's still wet, then you'll besitting there with your hand on that switch for well over an hour...if you're just doing blanks without wraps and guides, then try buildingseveral tubes, put several pulleys on the same shaft and draw them all atonce. Personally, I don't have any trouble doing one section at a time, butthen again, I don't work a "real" job! LOL ...so... if it takes me all dayto varnish a few rods, then it isn't any big deal. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: wrap varnishing/drying set-up Hiya- Anyone have plans or pictures for a solid, easy to use rig tovarnish and dry 4 - 6 rod sections at once? I'm going nuts trying torefinish a pile of rods with only one turning motor! Thanks in advance for any help Brian from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Oct 9 11:37:24 2000 e99GbNG23961 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:19:14 -0700 Subject: ROFF e99GbOG23962 I've seen references to Recreation Outdoors Fly Fishing (ROFF). What is thespecific website address and does it require registration? Is it a listserv ora bulletin board type system? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Oct 9 11:58:24 2000 e99GwOG24988 Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:58:03 -0500 Subject: Re: wrap varnishing/drying set-up I just finished spraying 7 rods, and curing them in my drying cabinet at onetime ! My cabinet is an old gutted Coke machine, which provides space for 4rows of cafe rods. I wrapped all ferrules with Teflon plumbers tape, andhung them on wire hooks, after spraying each coat on each section. Mycabinet stayed at 110 deg. F., with one 100 watt bulb in the bottom. I wasable to get the 2 coats on in 4 days, and left them a week to cure out. GMA from can@telusplanet.net Mon Oct 9 14:05:53 2000 [199.185.220.239] (may be forged)) e99J5qG29570 Subject: ROFF Have has several queries about thisIt's a newsgroup I get through my server Telusplanet.net, nocost involved it's a bulletin board (I guess) I read through NetscapeNewsgroup.Under Netscape I clicked on "Subscribe" it lists all newsgroupsavailable through my server & I just clicked onrec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Actually my nephew showed me how to get on it-- CheersCraig Hill Country Rodswww.telusplanet.net/public/can/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Oct 9 14:52:50 2000 e99JqnG01705 Subject: Re: ROFF Here's how I access ROFF: http://www.ibiblio.org/usenet-i/groups-html/rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.html At the bottom of the page, click on the "GO TO GROUP" text. --Rich from Canerods@aol.com Mon Oct 9 16:55:32 2000 e99LtWG06025 Subject: Re: ROFF Chris, What it is is a waste of computer time - 99% flaming and 1% decent info.Just about the flipside of rodmakers. IMHO, Don Burns from mrobinso@uoguelph.ca Mon Oct 9 19:34:15 2000 e9A0YEG09968 (206.186.110.52) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Getting started Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of split cane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and I am looking fora good way to get started. I was hoping to find a commercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of a complete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks in advance forany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 9 20:07:57 2000 e9A17uG10962 Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:07:44 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Getting started Mike,First of all, welcome aboard! I know of no ready made kits for gettingstarted in bamboo rodmaking, although some like Russ Gooding atwww.goldenwitch.com does carry many of the necessary tools of the trade.Perhaps a good first purchase is a good book or two, like those by WayneCattanach and Jack Howell. Perusing either of those will give you a good ideaof the process involved. Then you can make wise choices as you purchasetoolsand supplies. This list is a wonderful resource. Be bold about asking questions andyou'll receive many thoughtful responses. Harry Boyd Mike Robinson wrote: .... I am looking for a good way to get started. I was hoping to find acommercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of a complete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks in advance forany information you might have on how you got started. from bob@downandacross.com Mon Oct 9 20:19:16 2000 e9A1JFG11423 Subject: Re: Getting started I second Harry's recommendation of Russ at Golden Witch. He is great to deal with, and his stuff is first rate. There are several other good sources for forms like Lon Blauvelt, Colorado Bootstrap, and of course, Jeff Wagner. (There is another maker building nice forms in Canada, but his name escapes me know. Sorry) I got my first set of forms from Lon, and I know I got what I paid for, and I built several good rods on them. They are among the most reasonable price wise. However, the more expensive formsare worth every cent. It is always a matter of what you need to get out of them.Also, the two books are must haves. I would get a good Record plane with a Hock blade or two from someone like Garrett Wade, and you can be up and running in no time. Good luck, let me know if I can help in any way, although obviously the collective list is your best resource so far.See the Rodmakers site for more tool info.Welcome on board, and please note that I have no commercial interests in any of the above.Bob At 08:06 PM 10/9/00 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Mike,First of all, welcome aboard! I know of no ready made kits for gettingstarted in bamboo rodmaking, although some like Russ Gooding atwww.goldenwitch.com does carry many of the necessary tools of the trade.Perhaps a good first purchase is a good book or two, like those by WayneCattanach and Jack Howell. Perusing either of those will give you a good of the process involved. Then you can make wise choices as you purchasetoolsand supplies. This list is a wonderful resource. Be bold about asking questions andyou'll receive many thoughtful responses. Harry Boyd Mike Robinson wrote: .... I am looking for a good way to get started. I was hoping to find acommercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of a completekit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks in advanceforany information you might have on how you got started. from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon Oct 9 21:30:08 2000 e9A2U7G13273 Subject: Re: Getting started Hey, Mike - welcome to the obsession. One other tip is to use the "searchthearchives" feature of Frank Stetzer's site, reached through the RodmakersSoftware link. It can save you a lot of reading time if you are looking uppast dialogues on such things as what are the minimum tools needed, whichhasbeen discussed a couple of times. Reading through the entire Archive isquitea task, but much can be learned that way as well. Having not been at it all that long myself, I heartily agree with thehelpfulness of the two books suggested, as well as the selection of tools andcomponents available through Goldenwitch (no financial interest, etc. - just asteady series of "investments" ;-) and a satisfied customer.) The list is, of course, invaluable! good luck to ya mac Mike Robinson wrote: Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of split cane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and I am looking fora good way to get started. I was hoping to find a commercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of a complete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks in advance forany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from if6were9@bellsouth.net Mon Oct 9 21:49:03 2000 e9A2n2G13807 Subject: Re: ROFF Funny you would say that. I found out about this group while a regular readerofROFF. I was getting very tired of the (literally) hundreds of posts on thebamboo Bastard and what the finest single malt on the planet might be.I came here because I love all things fishing and will take a look at anythingrelated. That was over 3 years ago now and while I'm still very much alurker, Ihope to one day be a contributing (on subject) member. I'm still a ways offfromtaking the plunge into full on bamboo construction due to current space andtimelimitations, but I've already gotten rave reviews of the blued N/S reel seathardware I'm now offering as an option on the (plastic) rods I build. I'm alsoturning my own reel seat inserts and have quite a collection of unusual localwood cut and waxed for future use. I would like to thank all list members forthe inspiration and information I find on this list every day. Thanks againPat BTW: On the subject of sealing end grain for drying. A local woodworkerthatuses a lot of fresh cut wood, uses plain white glue instead of wax for sealing.He said it seals better, can be applied right out of the bottle so wood can besealed as soon as it's cut, and it comes off your hands easier than wax. I'vebeen using it (white glue) for end grain sealing since he told me about it andsofar so good. Any pros or cons to this? Am I setting myself up fordisappointment down the road, or does he know what he's talking about? Canerods@aol.com wrote: Chris, What it is is a waste of computer time - 99% flaming and 1% decent info.Justabout the flipside of rodmakers. IMHO, Don Burns from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 9 23:06:01 2000 e9A460G15625 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: ROFF Pat,Thanks for the tip... I just cut a big chunk of burl oak out of a treethat lightening got on my ranch and usually I wax the wood, but I'll trythis on some of the pieces and see what it does. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: ROFF Funny you would say that. I found out about this group while a regularreader ofROFF. I was getting very tired of the (literally) hundreds of posts on thebamboo Bastard and what the finest single malt on the planet might be.I came here because I love all things fishing and will take a look atanythingrelated. That was over 3 years ago now and while I'm still very much alurker, Ihope to one day be a contributing (on subject) member. I'm still a waysoff fromtaking the plunge into full on bamboo construction due to current space andtimelimitations, but I've already gotten rave reviews of the blued N/S reelseathardware I'm now offering as an option on the (plastic) rods I build. I'malsoturning my own reel seat inserts and have quite a collection of unusuallocalwood cut and waxed for future use. I would like to thank all list membersforthe inspiration and information I find on this list every day. Thanks againPat BTW: On the subject of sealing end grain for drying. A local woodworkerthatuses a lot of fresh cut wood, uses plain white glue instead of wax forsealing.He said it seals better, can be applied right out of the bottle so wood canbesealed as soon as it's cut, and it comes off your hands easier than wax.I'vebeen using it (white glue) for end grain sealing since he told me about itand sofar so good. Any pros or cons to this? Am I setting myself up fordisappointment down the road, or does he know what he's talking about? Canerods@aol.com wrote: Chris, What it is is a waste of computer time - 99% flaming and 1% decent info.Justabout the flipside of rodmakers. IMHO, Don Burns from rfjoinery@creativequest.com Mon Oct 9 23:13:15 2000 e9A4DEG16000; Subject: Re:white glue for end grain At 09:41 PM 10/9/00 -0500, Pat Tumblin wrote:On the subject of sealing end grain for drying. A local woodworker thatuses a lot of fresh cut wood, uses plain white glue instead of wax forsealing.He said it seals better, can be applied right out of the bottle so woodcan besealed as soon as it's cut, and it comes off your hands easier than wax.I'vebeen using it (white glue) for end grain sealing since he told me about itand sofar so good. Any pros or cons to this? Am I setting myself up fordisappointment down the road, or does he know what he's talking about? I'm another woodworker who's used white glue for some time, for sealingend grain on green wood. My application is log-diameter chunks that willbecome turned bowls, from a whole range of local hardwoods. White or yellowglue seem to both work real well, but you have to put it on pretty heavy oruse 2 coats. It's easier to spread if it's watered down a bit, say 20%water, but not really necessary. And being water based it does spreadeasily no matter how wet the wood is. Also a good way to use up glue that'sgone out of date, like the last inch in a gallon jug, which I would NOTtrust as adhesive on a job that mattered. Maybe you can even find a gallon today, there's a chunk of cherry log, maybe 15" x 15", full round, sealedon the ends with yellow glue, laying around for 6 or 8 years now. It's solight in weight that I'd bet it's down to 12% MC, but there's minimalchecking, like 2 or 3 cracks 1/32" that I know don't go more than 2" deep. sure there would be no substantial checking at all. from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Oct 9 23:39:13 2000 e9A4dDG16627 Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:39:10 -0500 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Getting started Hi Mike, I'll come right out and say, get Wayne Cattanach's book, and the video, toget you started ! It's worth every cent ! GMA from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Oct 10 03:45:55 2000 e9A8jsG20322 BAA03078 Subject: Re:sealing wood was ROFF I used titebond II for sealing the end grain on logs. If left outside thewhite glue won't last long due to moisture from both sides. Paul----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: ROFF Pat,Thanks for the tip... I just cut a big chunk of burl oak out of a treethat lightening got on my ranch and usually I wax the wood, but I'll trythis on some of the pieces and see what it does. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Pat Tumblin Cc: mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ;rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:42 PMSubject: Re: ROFF Funny you would say that. I found out about this group while a regularreader ofROFF. I was getting very tired of the (literally) hundreds of posts onthebamboo Bastard and what the finest single malt on the planet might be.I came here because I love all things fishing and will take a look atanythingrelated. That was over 3 years ago now and while I'm still very much alurker, Ihope to one day be a contributing (on subject) member. I'm still a waysoff fromtaking the plunge into full on bamboo construction due to current spaceandtimelimitations, but I've already gotten rave reviews of the blued N/S reelseathardware I'm now offering as an option on the (plastic) rods I build.I'malsoturning my own reel seat inserts and have quite a collection of unusuallocalwood cut and waxed for future use. I would like to thank all listmembersforthe inspiration and information I find on this list every day. Thanks againPat BTW: On the subject of sealing end grain for drying. A local woodworkerthatuses a lot of fresh cut wood, uses plain white glue instead of wax forsealing.He said it seals better, can be applied right out of the bottle so woodcanbesealed as soon as it's cut, and it comes off your hands easier than wax.I'vebeen using it (white glue) for end grain sealing since he told me aboutitand sofar so good. Any pros or cons to this? Am I setting myself up fordisappointment down the road, or does he know what he's talking about? Canerods@aol.com wrote: Chris, What it is is a waste of computer time - 99% flaming and 1% decentinfo.Justabout the flipside of rodmakers. IMHO, Don Burns from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Oct 10 04:22:37 2000 e9A9MZG20870 Subject: Re: Getting started Organization: vet Mike I think George has it pretty well spot on. I recently loaned a copy of WayneCattanach's book and of his video to an Australian beginner, and I think hehas so far been kept pretty busy mastering Wayne's advice. In fact, he mademe a Garrison-style rod binder and sent it down to me, so somewhere inthere is a lot of good info. The binder id fantastic! Hope you get hooked, as we all did. Peter All things considered I think my selection was a pretty sound one.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Getting started Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of split cane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and I am lookingfora good way to get started. I was hoping to find a commercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of a completekit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks in advanceforany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Oct 10 05:35:02 2000 e9AAYoG21884 Subject: Re: Sv: guide spacing "'rodmakers'" He was that on the list alright :-) I was apprenticed to an English boatbuilder by the name of Keith and I'm convinced they were twins seperated atbirth. Keith certainly knew his stuff and I'll leave it there ....;-) Actually I was thinking of Terry and this thread today while standing at mylathe of all places and the thought occured to me this was somewhat like aHR Lovecraft novel I once read. Basicaly there was a real nasty deamoncalled something like bezelebub but that wasn't it and all the civic mindedoccultists somehow bound him in miles and miles of chain. This kept him inone place and out of trouble but every time his name was spoken a linkwould break and he was just that much closer to returning.Now, I'm not suggesting Terry is a nasty deamon, not even tongue in cheek.He even hands out cold beers on hot days so he has to be OK but I do wonderif all this mentioning of his name will hasten his ultimate return??????? Tony At 12:49 PM 10/8/00 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:I miss him too Tony. Terry was never mean, he was just the perfectprototype of a cantankerous old rod maker. Shucks nothing wrong withthat. I am one of the breed myself.Ralph /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Oct 10 05:46:53 2000 e9AAkqG22164 Subject: Re: Lathes from my studies on lathes prior to buying, the Jet 9" x 20" is the same asthe one sold by Grizzly - at least the outward appearance is the same. TheGrizzly that I bought is working out fine. With some home modifications (thethru- bore is 3/4" - not big enough for a 2" tube), I'm able to build rodtubes. Problems arise when you want to do heavy knurling, but mostapplications work fine. I believe the 9" x 20" is the largest that will runon 110v. I think you go to 220v in the 10" and up. The 20" bed is great - noproblems with turning handles on the shaft. So far, so good. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathes BTW, Jet has more than one grade of lathe. Their top model comes with atestsheet, showing its accuracy ! Their best model is far above anythingHarborFreight has, and so is a decent Atlas, even used ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Oct 10 07:35:30 2000 e9ACZUG23692 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:36:11 -0500 , Subject: Re: Lathes There are many lathes made to run on 110/115V. up to about 14". The onlylathe I know of in the 10" size that hd a 2" head stock were the South Bend"Light Ten" tool room lathe. When I was a young man, my dream was one ofthese, with its 2-1/4" head stock bore ! Even a used version is still priceytoday, if you can find one ! I now find that many suppliers carry 115 to 220 converters, that are in the$100 range. There is a definite advantage to using 220V. lathes, as theyproduce much finer cuts, when holding close tolerances. It has to do withthe impulses from the 60 cycles, I'm told ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Oct 10 08:20:42 2000 e9ADKfG24951 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:20:40 -0500 Subject: Re: ROFF All I got was server could not be found, when I clicked on "go to group" ! Icould find no way to read the messages. GMA from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Tue Oct 10 08:27:02 2000 e9ADR1G25217 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: ROFF I had exactly the same experience. danny nobler wrote: All I got was server could not be found, when I clicked on "go to group" ! Icould find no way to read the messages. GMA from Todd.Williams@parsons.com Tue Oct 10 08:35:31 2000 e9ADZUG25655 IAA26395 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:43:09 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) 0000_00c8_39e3_1b30_ab95;Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:35:44 -0500 Subject: Files information. Hello List. I am a newbie as well. Have been lurking for a while. I am in the process of collecting tools and setting up. Anyway, last week or so their was a discussion about vixen files for filing forms. I was doing some research and found the following web site. http://www.coopertools.com/brands/nicholson/index_arch.html This site contains a link to order (for Free) Nicholson - The Guide to Files and Filing. Just recieved mine. Has everything you ever wanted to know about files. Also, has anyone used the Grizzly G4014 Drill press for drilling and boring their forms. On sale for $50. Thanks Todd Williams from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Oct 10 08:47:55 2000 e9ADlsG26110 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: ROFF You need to have some type of newsreader installed since ROFF isn't a website, it's a news group. You may want to try this: 1. from Internet Explorer, click Tools in the menu bar, then Mail and News,then Read News. The news reader will start.2. from the main menu of the News Reader, click Subscribe.3. In the search field, type fishing.fly and click OK. It should then findrec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Don't have a clue how to do this with Netscape. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:30 AM Subject: Re: ROFF I had exactly the same experience. danny nobler wrote: All I got was server could not be found, when I clicked on"go to group" ! Icould find no way to read the messages. GMA from rkrees@mcn.net Tue Oct 10 09:01:12 2000 e9AE1BG26670 Subject: ROFF This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C03291.0E3D02A0 Your ISP must subscribe to the list on it=92s server. Call your ISP and =ask them to add it to their list and then you will be able to read it. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C03291.0E3D02A0 Your ISP must subscribe to the list on it=92s server. Call your ISP = them to add it to their list and then you will be able to read it.Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C03291.0E3D02A0-- from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Oct 10 09:26:55 2000 e9AEQsG27564 Subject: RE: Getting started I too am just getting started, and decided to assemble my own collectionof tools. But during my early searches I did find the Munro Rod Co.(www.munrorodco.com) that offers starter kits, and a "professional" kit.I don't know anything about the quality of their tools, or theirintegrity or ease of dealing as e-business people, so this is not anendorsement. I have dealt with Goldenwitch on one order of supplies,and was quite pleased with the whole process. I'd bet that Goldenwitchwould be willing to assemble a kit and quote you a fair price for thewhole package, if you just e-mailed them. Just look out, browsing theGoldenwitch site is a lot like walking into a very expensive candystore, lots of goodies there. ;-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 6:31 PM Subject: Getting started Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of split cane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and I amlooking fora good way to get started. I was hoping to find a commerciallyavailablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need toacquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of acomplete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks inadvance forany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Oct 10 09:31:40 2000 e9AEVeG27871 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:31:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Getting started I have had a standing order for a binder kit from Munro for over a year. Todate they haven't had one to sell. I think he's just having a hard timegetting started again. GMA from grau@buchlang.com Tue Oct 10 09:47:02 2000 e9AEl1G28409 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: Getting started - Munro Friends i made several requests and orders to Munro from Switzerland - never hadproblems with them and very prompt delivery. Regards Stefan nobler schrieb: I have had a standing order for a binder kit from Munro for over a year. Todate they haven't had one to sell. I think he's just having a hard timegetting started again. GMA --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Oct 10 09:48:19 2000 e9AEmIG28558 JAA22996 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 Subject: Re: Files information. Todd, Drilling the holes square and true was the hardest part of makingmy forms. I'm sure a light duty drill press like this will beadequate...the tricky part is to hold the bar stock exactly whereyou want it. In the middle of the forms its not too bad but towardthe ends the long bar exerts a lot of torque. The weight of the steel twisted the drill press table out of true even on my much heavierdrill press. You will have to find a way to support the other end.You will need levels and squares to check and recheck everything. Then if you change drill bits you may have to move the table anddo it all again, for the same hole. Its a chore. I'm sure someone with machine shop experience could do it better and faster than I did. In the end, my forms would have probably received a "C" from the shop teacher. But they work OK for making rods.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Todd Williams wrote: Hello List. Also, has anyone used the Grizzly G4014 Drill press for drilling and boring their forms. On sale for $50. Thanks Todd Williams from rmoon@ida.net Tue Oct 10 10:37:51 2000 e9AFboG00404 Subject: Re: Files information. Frank Do you have a source for bits that drill square holes? or maybe falseones. I have never drilled a square and true hole. LOLRalph from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 10:40:29 2000 e9AFeTG00595 08:40:19 PDT Subject: Re: Files information. ralph, i was just wondering about where to get asquare bit. timothy --- Ralph W Moon wrote:Frank Do you have a source for bits that drill squareholes? or maybe falseones. I have never drilled a square and true hole. LOLRalph ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Oct 10 11:05:45 2000 e9AG5jG01729 Subject: RE: Files information. Ralph, woodworkers use them all the time, called a mortising machine.Now if someone could make one that works on metal, I 'd finally have ause of those square bolts I bought. :-) Now, as to true holes, I'vehad several people comment that some of my work looks like "a truehole." Or maybe they were talking about me? ;-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:36 AM Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Files information. Frank Do you have a source for bits that drill square holes? or maybe falseones. I have never drilled a square and true hole. LOLRalph from billh@inmind.com Tue Oct 10 11:26:55 2000 e9AGQsG02884 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:23:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Getting started Mike, JD Wagner offers a kit of hand tools for rodmaking that includes most of the tools you need to get started. He also sells a professional edition. The kits don't include planing forms, but he sells those, too. They look lovely, but on the high end of the scale pricewise. the basic kit is at http://www.wagnerrods.com/basic.html and the professional kit: http://www.wagnerrods.com/pro.htm I've not dealt with mr. wagner but he seems to have a good reputation on this list. Good luck, bill hoy sells a At 08:31 PM 10/9/00, Mike Robinson wrote:Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of split cane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and I am looking fora good way to get started. I was hoping to find a commercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of a complete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks in advance forany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Oct 10 11:53:04 2000 e9AGr3G04151 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:54:06 -0500 Subject: Re: ROFF Same here Danny.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Danny Twang wrote: I had exactly the same experience. danny nobler wrote: All I got was server could not be found, when I clicked on "go to group" ! Icould find no way to read the messages. GMA from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Oct 10 11:54:48 2000 e9AGslG04297 Subject: Re: Getting started Jeff is a pleasure to deal with, and he has outstanding tools. Joe. from rafick@3riversweb.net Tue Oct 10 12:10:43 2000 e9AHAgG04873 Subject: Deja.com Forum This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C032B3.FEE30700 If your ISP doesn't have a news server(mine doesn't) the only way to readnews groups is by internet based sites.You can read ROFF here without signing up, but if you want to postmessagesyou need to sign up. http://www.deja.com/group/rec.outdoors.fishing.fly ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C032B3.FEE30700 name="Deja.com Forum.url" filename="Deja.com Forum.url" [DEFAULT]BASEURL=http://www.deja.com/group/rec.outdoors.fishing.fly [InternetShortcut]URL=http://www.deja.com/group/rec.outdoors.fishing.flyModified=406BA154DD32C00170 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C032B3.FEE30700-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Oct 10 12:25:34 2000 e9AHPXG05863 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Getting started With all due respect, there's a bunch of stuff in these kits that are nicebut by no means a necessity for a beginner. I think a person shouldpurchase the bare minimum of good, useable tools and then build from thereif one discovers they love bamboo rod building. Bamboo froe? Use a sharp old kitchen knife.Japanese Dovetail saw? A $5 hack saw is fine.Lie-Nielsen planes? YIKES! Buy a $30 Record.Hock blades? Before Hock came around they were still building rods withordinary plane blades. You simply need to sharpen the Stanley or Record abit more often. Since it takes about 4 minutes to sharpen a blade, you mayneed to add about 20 minutes more to the time it takes to build your firstrod. Big deal. When I started, Terry Ackland lent me a book by George Barnes. It waswonderful to see how George was able to make rods with really just aminimum amount of tools. His rough angle was done with a pocket knife, hebound his blanks by hand, he tempered by passing a blow torch orver a metalpipe in which the strips were inserted. I think someone starting out should get the bare minimum. Afterall, if youenjoy making rods, you'll continue amassing tools for the rest of yourlife.Here, then, is my basic kit: To split your culm:1. A sharp knife ($2)2. A wood or rubber head mallet (don't use an ordinary hammer =:-0) ($5)3. A hacksaw to cut your strips to length. ($5) To press nodes and straighten strips:4. A small bench vise. ($15)5. A heat gun with a wide nozzle. (Mine is a cheap Chinese one with twoheat settings) ($15) To plane your strips:6. A block plane (Record or Stanley) ($30)7. A combination waterstone, angle jig (kit from Lee Valley is less than$50.)8. A dial indicator with 60 degree points. ($25)9. A base for the indicator. (Can be made out of hardwood in an evening)($2)10. Planing forms (ouch. No getting around this but consider borrowing aset or purchase a set from Grindstone, Colorado Bootstrap, etc for$300-400) Temper your strips:11. A heat gun oven. Can be built in an evening using galvanized pipes, ahand drill and some screws. ($20)12. A cooking dial thermometer ($15) Measure your strips:13. A dial caliper or even a micrometer ($25) To glue your strips:14. A toothbrush. (50 cents) To bind your strips:15. I built a counter-rotating binder based on Millward's design for about$20 in one evening. Alternately, you could simply bind by hand like GeorgeBarnes.16. Some binding thread. Go to a craft store and get 100% cotton thread tomake lace. ($2) To varnish your rod:15. A foam head brush. (Some outstanding finishes have been done by hand.Really, a dip tube can wait.) (50 cents) All prices in Canadian funds. You'll need to buy a culm, glue, a set of ferrules, grip and reel seat,guides and tip-top. There you have it. My basic kit. If you get hooked on rodmaking, you canbuy the lathe, the beveller, the digital dial indicator, the torch, thesnake guide maker, etc etc etc later. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Getting started Mike, JD Wagner offers a kit of hand tools for rodmaking thatincludes most ofthe tools you need to get started. He also sells a professionaledition. The kits don't include planing forms, but hesells those, too.They look lovely, but on the high end of the scale pricewise. the basic kit is at http://www.wagnerrods.com/basic.html and the professional kit: http://www.wagnerrods.com/pro.htm I've not dealt with mr. wagner but he seems to have a goodreputation onthis list. Good luck, bill hoy sells a At 08:31 PM 10/9/00, Mike Robinson wrote:Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of splitcane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and Iam looking fora good way to get started. I was hoping to find acommercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will Ineed to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know ofa complete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanksin advance forany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 13:26:30 2000 e9AIQTG08592 11:26:25 PDT Subject: RE: Files information. torque is probably a big issue in drilling a squarehole. do you think? :-) timothy --- James wrote:Ralph, woodworkers use them all the time, called amortising machine.Now if someone could make one that works on metal, I'd finally have ause of those square bolts I bought. :-) Now, as totrue holes, I'vehad several people comment that some of my worklooks like "a truehole." Or maybe they were talking about me? ;-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:36 AM Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Files information. Frank Do you have a source for bits that drill squareholes? or maybe falseones. I have never drilled a square and truehole. LOLRalph ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Oct 10 13:57:38 2000 e9AIuGG09924 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Getting started Richard Nantel has spoken words of truth. No need to go over the edgewith spending money. Kevin Buchanan from channer1@rmi.net Tue Oct 10 14:45:56 2000 e9AJjtG11867 Subject: Re: ROFF You guys are doing it the hard way. Got to Deja.com and search for itthere, no subscribing, no mail box full of junk, no muss no fuss.John Richard Nantel wrote: You need to have some type of newsreader installed since ROFF isn't a website, it's a news group. You may want to try this: 1. from Internet Explorer, click Tools in the menu bar, then Mail and News,then Read News. The news reader will start.2. from the main menu of the News Reader, click Subscribe.3. In the search field, type fishing.fly and click OK. It should then findrec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Don't have a clue how to do this with Netscape. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:30 AM Subject: Re: ROFF I had exactly the same experience. danny nobler wrote: All I got was server could not be found, when I clicked on"go to group" ! Icould find no way to read the messages. GMA from channer1@rmi.net Tue Oct 10 14:53:22 2000 e9AJrLG12214 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ROFF Here's the url: http://x40.deja.com/[ST_rn=if]/topics_if.xp?search=topic&group=rec.outdoors.fishing.fly&GRPP=952389265.1012203564&title=Related&query=rec.outdoors.fishing.fly John Richard Nantel wrote: You need to have some type of newsreader installed since ROFF isn't a website, it's a news group. You may want to try this: 1. from Internet Explorer, click Tools in the menu bar, then Mail and News,then Read News. The news reader will start.2. from the main menu of the News Reader, click Subscribe.3. In the search field, type fishing.fly and click OK. It should then findrec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Don't have a clue how to do this with Netscape. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:30 AM Subject: Re: ROFF I had exactly the same experience. danny nobler wrote: All I got was server could not be found, when I clicked on"go to group" ! Icould find no way to read the messages. GMA from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Oct 10 14:54:18 2000 e9AJsHG12383 Subject: Re: Getting started rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu RichardHow do you sharpen in four min? and were the heck do you get a record 9.5 for thirty dollars from Canerods@aol.com Tue Oct 10 14:59:23 2000 e9AJxNG13399 Subject: Re: ROFF One reason that I kept a bring-your-own-ISP AOL account ($9.95/mt) isbecause the ISP didn't subscribe to newsgroups. AOL has an easy workable newsgroup system and I think they have ever newsgroup around. Too bad they don't have a anti-BS screening system. I dropped ROFF several years ago and haven't seen the need to re-subscribe. Rodmakers is much better for my sanity. Don B. PS - Now several ISP's later, I also find that I don't need to post change of email addresses each time I want to dump my ISP since my AOL addressstays the same. Soon to happen again as I switch over to ADSL. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Tue Oct 10 15:06:39 2000 e9AK6cG13903 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:06:37 -0400 richard.nantel@videotron.ca,billh@inmind.com, mrobinso@uoguelph.ca, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Getting started I sharpen in slightly less than four minutes using the "scary sharp" method- four little sheets of sandpaper taped to a flat surface. Considerablyless costly than waterstones, etc. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:53 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Getting started RichardHow do you sharpen in four min? and were the heck do you get a record 9.5 for thirty dollars from eestlow@yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 15:49:26 2000 e9AKnPG15804 2000 13:49:19 PDT Subject: RE: Scary Sharp, was Getting started Is there a current URL for the scary sharp method. Theone I have goes 404. Best regards,-Ed Estlow --- Seth Steinzor wrote:I sharpen in slightly less than four minutes usingthe "scary sharp" method- four little sheets of sandpaper taped to a flatsurface. Considerablyless costly than waterstones, etc. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:53 PM mrobinso@uoguelph.ca;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Getting started RichardHow do you sharpen in four min? and werethe heck do you get a record 9.5 for thirty dollars __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Oct 10 17:12:08 2000 e9AMC7G19543 Subject: Re: ROFF Thanks to the recent thread, I pulled up ROFF for the first time in a longwhile. First post I read was from George G announcing theresumption of the Bamboo Bastard production. Only one course of action Iconcluded, hit the little X box to make it all disappear like a baddream. Worked good! Wide awake again. No more monsters. =:0 Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Oct 10 18:13:36 2000 e9ANDZG21584 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Getting started I agree whole-heartedly with Richard. I too started with George Barnesbook , a knife, a Stanley 91/2, a propane torch, length of black steelpipe, V-block, micrometer, bastard file,hacksaw, I bound by hand. I made4 rods this way before I made an adjustable planing form and spent bigbucks. After the first rod I was "hooked". Marty With all due respect, there's a bunch of stuff in these kits that are nicebut by no means a necessity for a beginner. I think a person shouldpurchase the bare minimum of good, useable tools and then build fromthereif one discovers they love bamboo rod building. Bamboo froe? Use a sharp old kitchen knife.Japanese Dovetail saw? A $5 hack saw is fine.Lie-Nielsen planes? YIKES! Buy a $30 Record.Hock blades? Before Hock came around they were still building rods withordinary plane blades. You simply need to sharpen the Stanley or Record abit more often. Since it takes about 4 minutes to sharpen a blade, you mayneed to add about 20 minutes more to the time it takes to build your firstrod. Big deal. When I started, Terry Ackland lent me a book by George Barnes. It waswonderful to see how George was able to make rods with really just aminimum amount of tools. His rough angle was done with a pocket knife, hebound his blanks by hand, he tempered by passing a blow torch orver ametalpipe in which the strips were inserted. I think someone starting out should get the bare minimum. Afterall, if youenjoy making rods, you'll continue amassing tools for the rest of yourlife.Here, then, is my basic kit: To split your culm:1. A sharp knife ($2)2. A wood or rubber head mallet (don't use an ordinary hammer =:-0) ($5)3. A hacksaw to cut your strips to length. ($5) To press nodes and straighten strips:4. A small bench vise. ($15)5. A heat gun with a wide nozzle. (Mine is a cheap Chinese one with twoheat settings) ($15) To plane your strips:6. A block plane (Record or Stanley) ($30)7. A combination waterstone, angle jig (kit from Lee Valley is less than$50.)8. A dial indicator with 60 degree points. ($25)9. A base for the indicator. (Can be made out of hardwood in an evening)($2)10. Planing forms (ouch. No getting around this but consider borrowing aset or purchase a set from Grindstone, Colorado Bootstrap, etc for$300-400) Temper your strips:11. A heat gun oven. Can be built in an evening using galvanized pipes, ahand drill and some screws. ($20)12. A cooking dial thermometer ($15) Measure your strips:13. A dial caliper or even a micrometer ($25) To glue your strips:14. A toothbrush. (50 cents) To bind your strips:15. I built a counter-rotating binder based on Millward's design for about$20 in one evening. Alternately, you could simply bind by hand like GeorgeBarnes.16. Some binding thread. Go to a craft store and get 100% cotton threadtomake lace. ($2) To varnish your rod:15. A foam head brush. (Some outstanding finishes have been done byhand.Really, a dip tube can wait.) (50 cents) All prices in Canadian funds. You'll need to buy a culm, glue, a set of ferrules, grip and reel seat,guides and tip-top. There you have it. My basic kit. If you get hooked on rodmaking, you canbuy the lathe, the beveller, the digital dial indicator, the torch, thesnake guide maker, etc etc etc later. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Getting started Mike, JD Wagner offers a kit of hand tools for rodmaking thatincludes most ofthe tools you need to get started. He also sells a professionaledition. The kits don't include planing forms, but hesells those, too.They look lovely, but on the high end of the scale pricewise. the basic kit is at http://www.wagnerrods.com/basic.html and the professional kit: http://www.wagnerrods.com/pro.htm I've not dealt with mr. wagner but he seems to have a goodreputation onthis list. Good luck, bill hoy sells a At 08:31 PM 10/9/00, Mike Robinson wrote:Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of splitcane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and Iam looking fora good way to get started. I was hoping to find acommercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will Ineed to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know ofa complete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanksin advance forany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Oct 10 18:20:11 2000 e9ANKAG21822 Subject: Brian Creek's letter Two cheers and our thanks to Brian Creek for his letter to the editor inthis issue (November/December 2000) of Fly Rod and Reel. He states a greatcase for bamboo rods and rodmakers. Interestingly, Brian, FR&R celebrates their highest circulation only twopages later, illustrated with a past issue cover where an angler is, infact, holding a split bamboo rod. Who is that guy, anyway? ;-) David and Kathy from bamboo@pa.net Tue Oct 10 18:40:45 2000 e9ANeiG22568 Subject: Munro Binding Kit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C032EA.02A9EA80 Who wanted a Munro binding kit I was a little quick on the delete button =and lost the address. I have one that was never used and might be =persuaded to part with it. Contact me off list. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C032EA.02A9EA80 Who wanted a Munro binding kit I was a= list. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C032EA.02A9EA80-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Oct 10 18:51:18 2000 e9ANpHG23001 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Getting started How do you sharpen in four min? I use a 1000/4000 combination waterstone. I also use 2000 grit wetsandpaper between the two. Really, it doesn't take long to get a good burr. and were the heck doyou get arecord 9.5 for thirty dollars OK, not quite $30 but the 1999-2000 Lee Valley tool catalog lists it for$57 Cdn. That's $37 U.S. If I recall, some U.S. source had them for evencheaper. Rockler maybe? Richard from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Oct 10 19:05:09 2000 e9B059G23397 Subject: Re: Brian Creek's letter "That Guy" is John Gierach from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Oct 10 19:13:08 2000 e9B0D8G23704 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Brian Creek's letter Any chance brian would post a reprint or pertinent excerps here in theforum?Interested (by not subscribed), chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:33 PM Subject: Brian Creek's letter Two cheers and our thanks to Brian Creek for his letter to theeditor inthis issue (November/December 2000) of Fly Rod and Reel. He states agreatcase for bamboo rods and rodmakers. Interestingly, Brian, FR&R celebrates their highest circulation onlytwopages later, illustrated with a past issue cover where an angler is,infact, holding a split bamboo rod. Who is that guy, anyway? ;-) David and Kathy from Oozakgpt@aol.com Tue Oct 10 19:37:13 2000 e9B0bDG24556 Subject: Ferrule problems I recently mounted my ferrules on my first rod with golf shaft epoxy.When final fitting my ferrules, the ferrules lost their bond with the NS. Did I not score the NS of the ferrules enough for a good bond?I do have U 40 rod bond epoxy and Ferr-L-Tite hot melt.Any suggestions would be muchappreciated as I'm reluctant to use the shaft epoxy.TIA Greg T. from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Oct 10 20:44:03 2000 e9B1i2G26400 Subject: Re: Ferrule problems Greg, might the problem be related to cleaning the surfaces? Or perhapsmixingratio or mixing time? There was an article in the Rodmakers magazine a fewmonths ago that emphasized thorough mixing, so I now mix aggressively withatoothpick for several minutes past where I used to. I have used the shaftingepoxy ( from Golfsmith) on 4 or 5 rods with no problem, and when I go toclean itup off the marble tile I use for mixing, it seems to be much more aggressiveabond than the typical 5 minute stuff.Or, maybe I've just been lucky! Hope this helps you - mac Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: I recently mounted my ferrules on my first rod with golf shaft epoxy.Whenfinal fitting my ferrules, the ferrules lost their bond with the NS. Did Inot score the NS of the ferrules enough for a good bond?I do have U 40 rodbond epoxy and Ferr-L-Tite hot melt.Any suggestions would be muchappreciatedas I'm reluctant to use the shaft epoxy.TIA Greg T. from billh@inmind.com Tue Oct 10 20:46:52 2000 e9B1kqG26592 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:43:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Getting started "'Rodmakers'" I quite agree. The gentleman specifically asked for available kits, which I remember stumbling on in my own search for tools. Richard's recommendations are very good and welcome to me, and I expect, theoriginal poster. Any information about tools and techniques is welcome, especially to a newcomer. I started collecting tools and information about two years ago, and I remember how bewildering it all was. I chose to follow Richard's route. Someone else might prefer to get started building rods right away, and a kit might be just right for them. Bill Hoy At 02:46 PM 10/10/00, Kevin M. Buchanan wrote:Richard Nantel has spoken words of truth. No need to go over the edgewith spending money. Kevin Buchanan from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 21:02:11 2000 e9B22AG27170 2000 19:02:09 PDT Subject: Re: Ferrule problems I have had limited but good results with Golfsmith shafting epoxy. Iused the longest-curing (and cheapest) version based on a converstionwith the in- house club builder/repairman. He seemed to have somedisdain for the quicker-curing versions. --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Greg, might the problem be related to cleaning the surfaces? Orperhaps mixingratio or mixing time? There was an article in the Rodmakersmagazine a fewmonths ago that emphasized thorough mixing, so I now mixaggressively with atoothpick for several minutes past where I used to. I have usedthe shaftingepoxy ( from Golfsmith) on 4 or 5 rods with no problem, and when Igo to clean itup off the marble tile I use for mixing, it seems to be much moreaggressive abond than the typical 5 minute stuff.Or, maybe I've just been lucky! Hope this helps you - mac Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote:> > I recently mounted my ferrules on my firstrod with golf shaftepoxy.Whenfinal fitting my ferrules, the ferrules lost their bond with theNS. Did Inot score the NS of the ferrules enough for a good bond?I do haveU 40 rodbond epoxy and Ferr-L-Tite hot melt.Any suggestions would be muchappreciatedas I'm reluctant to use the shaft epoxy.TIA Greg T. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Oct 10 21:13:04 2000 e9B2D1G27601 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:12:40 +0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule problems It could be not scoring it or it could be the ferrules needed to be cleanedbefore mounting. Tony At 08:36 PM 10/10/00 -0400, Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote:I recently mounted my ferrules on my first rod with golf shaft epoxy.When final fitting my ferrules, the ferrules lost their bond with the NS.Did I not score the NS of the ferrules enough for a good bond?I do have U 40 rod bond epoxy and Ferr- L-Tite hot melt.Any suggestions would be muchappreciated as I'm reluctant to use the shaft epoxy.TIA Greg T. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from yves@hwy97.net Wed Oct 11 01:02:13 2000 e9B62CG02312 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:02:10 -0700 Subject: --=====================_971269324==_ This will be my last message to the list. To the 493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war, I dedicate the attachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the back of my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program at least as old as my 130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to open. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I share with you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods and get that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit a Budwiser beer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 at Gil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.........-- =====================_971269324==_ x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="74747874" 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-- =====================_971269324==_ --=====================_971269324==_-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 01:05:09 2000 e9B658G02480 Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:05:02 -0700 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:05:02 GMT Subject: Re: Ferrule problems FILETIME=[31D621C0:01C03349] From: Oozakgpt@aol.com Subject: Ferrule problemsDate: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:36:56 EDT I recently mounted my ferrules on my first rod with golf shaft epoxy.Whenfinal fitting my ferrules, the ferrules lost their bond with the NS. Did Inot score the NS of the ferrules enough for a good bond?I do have U 40 rodbond epoxy and Ferr-L-Tite hot melt.Any suggestions would be much appreciatedas I'm reluctant to use the shaft epoxy.TIA Greg T. I am still one of the holdouts for ferrule tite type of hot melt cement and a NS pinning wire... they DON'T come apart :)A.J.thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from rafick@3riversweb.net Wed Oct 11 01:45:56 2000 e9B6jtG03211 Subject: Re: Dave LaCourse or LaTouche or whatever it is. I don't understand your inability to overlook such a small mistake as a longdownload, one time, not like it happens every day or something.I also do not understand why you have hidden behind a fake name all thistime?Was it really the ONE long download or was it the thread about ROFF thathas upset you so? RA I know I should have just stayed out of this, but ..... This will be my last message to the list. To the 493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war, I dedicate theattachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the back of my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program at least as old as my130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to open. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I share with you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods and get that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit a Budwiser beer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 at Gil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 02:00:11 2000 e9B70BG03511 23:59:58 PDT Subject: Re: there's nothing quite like cutting one's nose off tospite one's face. timothy --- David La Touche wrote:This will be my last message to the list. To the493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war,I dedicate the attachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the backof my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program atleast as old as my 130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult toopen. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I sharewith you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods andget that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit aBudwiser beer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 atGil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah,blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.........> ïWPCt LaserJetIIP LaserJetIIP12pt(10cpi) 12pt (10cpi)(Bold) LaserJetIIP AôO áÝ THE IRISH, WITH THE HELP OF ST.PATRICKÅAôRáo THE RODMAKERS, IF NOT CIVILIZATIONÅ O upon a time, in an emerald landwas a monastery called MountTonkin, where dwelt acommunity of monks, led by their devoutAbbot, DomPatrick Le Bon. These holy men went about theirdailytasks with alacrity, carrying out the masterplan of their Abbotin bringing the word of Rod toChristian and pagan alike. However, they madecertain that the Christians got a little moreof theword than the pagans. Every morning, right aftermatins,Dom Patrick would harangue them, and exhortthem to use all oftheir skill in providing arcaneinformation to the Christianrodmakers, while merelytrying to convert the pagans and weanthem fromtheir heathen graphite implements. In the latter,theyhad little success, so closely attuned were thepagans to theirgraphite poles with which theyslaughtered the noble salmon, bythe thousands. Their methods were crude, and employeddynamitecaps, which led to certain salmon kills,or, if they were feelingparticularly sporting,employed cruel treble hooks, fashioned from bone,and smeared with peanut butter dyed with woad. At any rate, communication in this parallel world ofthe 5thcentury was not via carrier pigeon or handdelivery as one mightexpect, for an anomalous timewarp had assured that all of themonastic andChristian world was equipped with computersthateven today we can only dream about real"screamers" of perhaps10,000 mHz. The pagans, ofcourse, were still locked intheO pentium stage of computerdom, and havingthe patience ofmosquitos, they were sometimesfrustrated and angry when themonks emailed themlengthy tracts that spread the word of Rod,butlocked up their feeble computers. Then, on one summer evening, the monks were atdinner in therefectory. While they feasted onroast mutton, and quaffed fromflagons of Shiraz (itwasn't always Shiraz; if tax collectionswere down,they sometimes had to make do with AliceWhite),Brother Ralph read from THE BOOK, hismoonface gleaming in thecandle light, his voicedroning on and on about 101 ways toeliminate gluelines. Brother Caedfael mentally reviewed waysinwhich he might put Brother Ralph out of action as putting Cascara bark extract inhis tea, before the entirecommunity went mad fromhis droning. Brother William theHarmless wasbusing tables and looking for an opportunitytosnitch a little something out of Dom Patrick'sflagon of Shiraz. The other monks lolled in theirrattan captain's chairs ($49.95at Pier 1, nocommercial interest, blah, blah, blah.) DomPatrickrose to make an unaccustomed address to thecommunity,much to their shocked surprise. "Mybrethren, we are fastapproaching a crisis in thesupply side of our bamboo crop, andthe thickets ofthis precious material are becoming impenetrable. If we do not increase demand, we shall be inundatedwith asurplus." And even as he spoke, anotherbamboo shoot poked itsway through the floor. "Ipropose that tomorrow,immediatelyOmatins (even in crisis they were still devout) weshallrelease three entire chapters of THE BOOK." Agasp arose, asthough from one. This had neverhappened before. THE BOOK wassuch a closely heldsecret that only the abbot had read it allthe waythrough. The origin of THE BOOK was obscure, butsomebelieved that it had been discovered in a timecapsule labeled'CCCP' on the top of Mount Everett. To email out more than onepage a day was unheardof. Yet the Rules of Obedience requiredthem tofollow orders, and on the morrow it was done. Rodmaking in these times was primitive, with crudepoles oflancewood being favored, lines of wovenhorsehair being tied totheir ends, and crude fliesof chicken feathers attached. It waspossible tocatch salmon with these devices, but this wasperhapsanalogous to a blind pig occasionallyfinding an acorn, and, ifObe told, many of the fish wereAAsnaggedÇÇAA!ÇÇ Providing humblerodmakerswith an entire three chapters of THE BOOK would belikehanding over atomic secrets to a group ofunruly teenagers. Butat least it might have animmediate effect on the demand forbamboo, and afterthe destruction of all of the bamboo in therest ofthe world by the Knights of Tonkin, the price thatthemonastery would receive, as a monopolist, shouldfirm up. There was an immediate effect, but in the rudeencampments of thepagans. Their primitivecomputing devices locked up while tryingto downloadso many pages of information, and their crude33.3KOwere fried. While they raged, and tore their hair,theirsupreme leader, David the Bad, summoned hisassociate, David theWorse, and called in all thepetty chieftains. Rapidly theycobbled together acoalition of vikings, angles, jutes, saxons,pictsand scots, and set off for the emerald isle in theirlongships, calling in at the Faroe Islands and theIsle of Man, andother remote ports of north Europeto pick up reinforcements. The Swedes cautiouslydecided not to get involved, and the tribes from theAntipodes were too far away; anyway it was finalsweekin the Aussie Rules football season, andCarleton was whackingOtar out of West Coast, soAAtheyÇÇ AppçAAAAAAA*A couldn'tmake it. Six weeks later the bamboo spires of Mount TonkinAbbey loomedout of the morning mist; the monasticcommunity was still atmatins. The rag tag armystormed ashore, all carrying theirgraphite shields,graphite battle axes and bamboo froes ($29.95atHome Depot, no commercial interest, blah, blah,blah) andproceeded to split the bamboo pale thatsurrounded the monastery. They then entered theAbbey and lay about them with theirgraphite battleaxes, which proved to be too light to do anyrealdamage to the hard heads of the monks, thesmarter of whom playeddead. They had tried to pushBrother Ralph to the front line ashe was droning onabout different methods of dealing with nodes,buthe quickly hid under the refectory table. AbbotPatrick,game to the last, stood his ground,refusing to play dead. Hewas a pious monk, but alittle challenged above the eyebrows.O the Badgot him with a sucker blow with his graphitebattleaxe. The monks having been subdued, Davidthe Worse led thelooting parties, and they allreturned to their long ships, ladenwith booty, anddeparted for home. With his life blood fast leaving his broken body,Dom Patrickcarried out his final chore on his wayto martyrdom. Oneoperative computer and scannerremained, and in the short timethat remained tohim, brave Dom Patrick was able to scan in andOto the faithful, AAthe entireBOOK!ÇÇ And that, my children,was how BlessedPatrick Le Bon, soon to be St. Patrick (not theonewho did things with snakes; the other one) if theHoly Fathercomes through as promised, saved therodmakers and overcame thepagan users of graphite. Meanwhile, on the pagan long ships, matters were ina parlousstate.David the Bad (=B): "Well, where is it?"David the Worse (=W): "Where's what?" (he couldhave been adouble for Sylvester Stallone)B: "THE BOOK you cretin, you were supposed to getit!"W: (responds, his mouth half full of pizza) "Whoyou callin' acretin? You're abusin' me, I'll tellthe list!"B: "We're not on the list, you imbecile, we nevergotsubscribed. We're pagans, you numbskull! Andwhat about all theloot you were supposed to get? All you got were these 10sacksO funnylittle cylinders. Those bozos from the Isle of Mangotall the gold!"W: " Yeah, well I got plans for them littlecylinders. We canmake necklaces out of 'em, orlittle tiny wind bells. We cansell this stuff atcrafts fairs for lots of money! You an' me,O === message truncated ===> ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Wed Oct 11 03:04:29 2000 e9B84SG04399 fwd02.sul.t-online.com +0200 Subject: Guide spacing To Patrick Coffey: Hi Patrick, since I am still a Rookie in building split cane rods, I reallyappreciated the guide spacing chart you posted on the list. 'Cause I amlocated in Germany, my computer got the message during the night andtherefore I didn't have any problems with it. Right now I am working onmy first rod (a Paul Young Midge) and because it is a 6 foot 3 inch rod,I am curious if it is possible to transfer your guide spacing chart torods shorter than 7 feet (is there some kind of math behind the wholething?). To all: Is there a way to calculate the guide spacing? Something like a littleprogram for my computer? all the priceless information, which you guys are giving to me and allthe other rookies. Thanks a lot Ralf from lblan@provide.net Wed Oct 11 04:37:55 2000 e9B9bsG06065 Subject: RE: Guide spacing Yes, it was a pretty nice chart... it will even work on graphite rods! Ralf; Frank Stetzer's website has an online version you can use, or you candownload Wayne Cattanach's "Hexrod" program. If you opt for Wayne's, gettheHexSet file and the HexTpr file, which contains all of Wayne's tapers. TheHexExe file is just the executable, so you can get a fast upgrade if hechanges it. http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html http://www.wcattanachrodco.com/HexRod/hexrod.htm Larry Blan Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Guide spacing To Patrick Coffey: Hi Patrick, since I am still a Rookie in building split cane rods, I reallyappreciated the guide spacing chart you posted on the list. 'Cause I amlocated in Germany, my computer got the message during the night andtherefore I didn't have any problems with it. Right now I am working onmy first rod (a Paul Young Midge) and because it is a 6 foot 3 inch rod,I am curious if it is possible to transfer your guide spacing chart torods shorter than 7 feet (is there some kind of math behind the wholething?). To all: Is there a way to calculate the guide spacing? Something like a littleprogram for my computer? all the priceless information, which you guys are giving to me and allthe other rookies. Thanks a lot Ralf from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 11 05:06:57 2000 e9BA6sG06468 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:06:34 +0800 Subject: Re: e9BA6vG06469 I can't say I completely understand this whole deal but the verse is prettygood. Tony At 11:59 PM 10/10/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:there's nothing quite like cutting one's nose off tospite one's face. timothy --- David La Touche wrote:This will be my last message to the list. To the493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war,I dedicate the attachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the backof my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program atleast as old as my 130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult toopen. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I sharewith you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods andget that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit aBudwiser beer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 atGil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah,blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.........> ïWPCt LaserJetIIP LaserJetIIP12pt(10cpi) 12pt (10cpi)(Bold) LaserJetIIP AôO áÝ THE IRISH, WITH THE HELP OF ST.PATRICKÅAôRáo THE RODMAKERS, IF NOT CIVILIZATIONÅ O upon a time, in an emerald landwas a monastery called MountTonkin, where dwelt acommunity of monks, led by their devoutAbbot, DomPatrick Le Bon. These holy men went about theirdailytasks with alacrity, carrying out the masterplan of their Abbotin bringing the word of Rod toChristian and pagan alike. However, they madecertain that the Christians got a little moreof theword than the pagans. Every morning, right aftermatins,Dom Patrick would harangue them, and exhortthem to use all oftheir skill in providing arcaneinformation to the Christianrodmakers, while merelytrying to convert the pagans and weanthem fromtheir heathen graphite implements. In the latter,theyhad little success, so closely attuned were thepagans to theirgraphite poles with which theyslaughtered the noble salmon, bythe thousands. Their methods were crude, and employeddynamitecaps, which led to certain salmon kills,or, if they were feelingparticularly sporting,employed cruel treble hooks, fashioned from bone,and smeared with peanut butter dyed with woad. At any rate, communication in this parallel world ofthe 5thcentury was not via carrier pigeon or handdelivery as one mightexpect, for an anomalous timewarp had assured that all of themonastic andChristian world was equipped with computersthateven today we can only dream about real"screamers" of perhaps10,000 mHz. The pagans, ofcourse, were still locked intheO pentium stage of computerdom, and havingthe patience ofmosquitos, they were sometimesfrustrated and angry when themonks emailed themlengthy tracts that spread the word of Rod,butlocked up their feeble computers. Then, on one summer evening, the monks were atdinner in therefectory. While they feasted onroast mutton, and quaffed fromflagons of Shiraz (itwasn't always Shiraz; if tax collectionswere down,they sometimes had to make do with AliceWhite),Brother Ralph read from THE BOOK, hismoonface gleaming in thecandle light, his voicedroning on and on about 101 ways toeliminate gluelines. Brother Caedfael mentally reviewed waysinwhich he might put Brother Ralph out of action as putting Cascara bark extract inhis tea, before the entirecommunity went mad fromhis droning. Brother William theHarmless wasbusing tables and looking for an opportunitytosnitch a little something out of Dom Patrick'sflagon of Shiraz. The other monks lolled in theirrattan captain's chairs ($49.95at Pier 1, nocommercial interest, blah, blah, blah.) DomPatrickrose to make an unaccustomed address to thecommunity,much to their shocked surprise. "Mybrethren, we are fastapproaching a crisis in thesupply side of our bamboo crop, andthe thickets ofthis precious material are becoming impenetrable. If we do not increase demand, we shall be inundatedwith asurplus." And even as he spoke, anotherbamboo shoot poked itsway through the floor. "Ipropose that tomorrow,immediatelyOmatins (even in crisis they were still devout) weshallrelease three entire chapters of THE BOOK." Agasp arose, asthough from one. This had neverhappened before. THE BOOK wassuch a closely heldsecret that only the abbot had read it allthe waythrough. The origin of THE BOOK was obscure, butsomebelieved that it had been discovered in a timecapsule labeled'CCCP' on the top of Mount Everett. To email out more than onepage a day was unheardof. Yet the Rules of Obedience requiredthem tofollow orders, and on the morrow it was done. Rodmaking in these times was primitive, with crudepoles oflancewood being favored, lines of wovenhorsehair being tied totheir ends, and crude fliesof chicken feathers attached. It waspossible tocatch salmon with these devices, but this wasperhapsanalogous to a blind pig occasionallyfinding an acorn, and, ifObe told, many of the fish wereAAsnaggedÇÇAA!ÇÇ Providing humblerodmakerswith an entire three chapters of THE BOOK would belikehanding over atomic secrets to a group ofunruly teenagers. Butat least it might have animmediate effect on the demand forbamboo, and afterthe destruction of all of the bamboo in therest ofthe world by the Knights of Tonkin, the price thatthemonastery would receive, as a monopolist, shouldfirm up. There was an immediate effect, but in the rudeencampments of thepagans. Their primitivecomputing devices locked up while tryingto downloadso many pages of information, and their crude33.3KOwere fried. While they raged, and tore their hair,theirsupreme leader, David the Bad, summoned hisassociate, David theWorse, and called in all thepetty chieftains. Rapidly theycobbled together acoalition of vikings, angles, jutes, saxons,pictsand scots, and set off for the emerald isle in theirlongships, calling in at the Faroe Islands and theIsle of Man, andother remote ports of north Europeto pick up reinforcements. The Swedes cautiouslydecided not to get involved, and the tribes from theAntipodes were too far away; anyway it was finalsweekin the Aussie Rules football season, andCarleton was whackingOtar out of West Coast, soAAtheyÇÇ AppçAAAAAAA*A couldn'tmake it. Six weeks later the bamboo spires of Mount TonkinAbbey loomedout of the morning mist; the monasticcommunity was still atmatins. The rag tag armystormed ashore, all carrying theirgraphite shields,graphite battle axes and bamboo froes ($29.95atHome Depot, no commercial interest, blah, blah,blah) andproceeded to split the bamboo pale thatsurrounded the monastery. They then entered theAbbey and lay about them with theirgraphite battleaxes, which proved to be too light to do anyrealdamage to the hard heads of the monks, thesmarter of whom playeddead. They had tried to pushBrother Ralph to the front line ashe was droning onabout different methods of dealing with nodes,buthe quickly hid under the refectory table. AbbotPatrick,game to the last, stood his ground,refusing to play dead. Hewas a pious monk, but alittle challenged above the eyebrows.O the Badgot him with a sucker blow with his graphitebattleaxe. The monks having been subdued, Davidthe Worse led thelooting parties, and they allreturned to their long ships, ladenwith booty, anddeparted for home. With his life blood fast leaving his broken body,Dom Patrickcarried out his final chore on his wayto martyrdom. Oneoperative computer and scannerremained, and in the short timethat remained tohim, brave Dom Patrick was able to scan in andOto the faithful, AAthe entireBOOK!ÇÇ And that, my children,was how BlessedPatrick Le Bon, soon to be St. Patrick (not theonewho did things with snakes; the other one) if theHoly Fathercomes through as promised, saved therodmakers and overcame thepagan users of graphite. Meanwhile, on the pagan long ships, matters were ina parlousstate.David the Bad (=B): "Well, where is it?"David the Worse (=W): "Where's what?" (he couldhave been adouble for Sylvester Stallone)B: "THE BOOK you cretin, you were supposed to getit!"W: (responds, his mouth half full of pizza) "Whoyou callin' acretin? You're abusin' me, I'll tellthe list!"B: "We're not on the list, you imbecile, we nevergotsubscribed. We're pagans, you numbskull! Andwhat about all theloot you were supposed to get? All you got were these 10sacksO funnylittle cylinders. Those bozos from the Isle of Mangotall the gold!"W: " Yeah, well I got plans for them littlecylinders. We canmake necklaces out of 'em, orlittle tiny wind bells. We cansell this stuff atcrafts fairs for lots of money! You an' me,O === message truncated ===> ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 06:42:41 2000 e9BBgeG07695 04:42:38 PDT Subject: Re: --- Tony Young wrote:I can't say I completely understand this whole dealbut the verse is prettygood. Tony yes tony, i think we're missing part of the storyhere. my dad had a saying,"a man has two reasons fordoing anything and he'll tell you one of them." timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 11 07:29:44 2000 e9BCThG08458 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:29:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrule problems I NEVER use the 5- min. type epoxy for anything I want to really hold ! It'smeant for a "quick fix" in emergency situations ! I've recently triedProBond P-U adhesive, and like the foaming it does, to fill any voidsinside. So far none have shown even a tiny budge ! I'm wondering if your fit to the cane is a tight enough fit ? If you reallyhave to push, to get the ferrules on, then I'd suspect the mix ratio, etc.,with the epoxy used ? GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 11 07:56:04 2000 e9BCu3G09024 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:56:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide spacing Hello Ralf, I have a PHY Midge, and have offered the guide spacing to all. If you stillneed this, just ask, and I'll forward it to you. GMA from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 08:01:24 2000 e9BD1NG09323 ;Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:01:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Timothy, Now there is a statement worth responding to. I have refrained from mymany opinions and slants on the previously laborious topic of thedownload, but I believe that we could start another list of what ourfathers used to say. I will commit to memory your contribution, I likeit. My dad used to have many one liners that he resorted to from time totime, but the one that comes to mind always followed someone saying "Iwish....". Dad would advise them to "Crap in one hand and wish in theother, and see which one fills up the fastest". timothy troester wrote: --- Tony Young wrote:I can't say I completely understand this whole dealbut the verse is prettygood. Tony yes tony, i think we're missing part of the storyhere. my dad had a saying,"a man has two reasons fordoing anything and he'll tell you one of them."timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 11 08:07:48 2000 e9BD7lG09621 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:07:32 -0500 Subject: Re: My dad was a lawyer, from the old school. His often said quote was , "A badsettlement out of court, is better than a good one, in court" ! I know hehas turned over in his grave many times in the past 20 years ! GMA from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Oct 11 08:25:33 2000 e9BDPWG10677 GAA23651 (5.5.2650.21) I would like to humbly apologize to you guys for subjecting you to this childishtirade. I'm sorry that my lack of computer skills resulted in some one, whoobviously has gone way past the time to change his diaper, castingdisparaging remarks about a bunch of men I consider my friends. Hopefullythe next time I try to pass some information along I will have figured out howto do it without screwing up everyone's computers and getting some one towrite such a nasty tirade about good men. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 11:02 PM This will be my last message to the list. To the 493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war, I dedicate theattachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the back of my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program at least as old as my130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to open. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I share with you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods and get that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit a Budwiser beer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 at Gil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......... from jczimny@dol.net Wed Oct 11 08:38:03 2000 e9BDc2G12163 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Ferrule problems Probably not clean enough. Or whatever was in there was (perhaps) was notPHneutral.JohnZ Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: I recently mounted my ferrules on my first rod with golf shaft epoxy.Whenfinal fitting my ferrules, the ferrules lost their bond with the NS. Did Inot score the NS of the ferrules enough for a good bond?I do have U 40 rodbond epoxy and Ferr-L-Tite hot melt.Any suggestions would be muchappreciatedas I'm reluctant to use the shaft epoxy.TIA Greg T. from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Wed Oct 11 09:31:06 2000 e9BEV6G15296 Subject: wood tubes To all,Anyone know of a source for round wood tubes unfinished so I can cut to lengthJoe from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Oct 11 09:33:19 2000 e9BEXIG15466 Subject: RE: wood tubes CRENWoodcraft sells veneered plywood tubes, I think they're atwoodcraft.com. Woodworkers' Supply does also, but I don't recallwhether they have a presence on the web (call information forAlbuquerque, NM). -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:30 AM Subject: wood tubes To all,Anyone know of a source for round wood tubes unfinishedso I can cut to lengthJoe from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Oct 11 09:46:40 2000 e9BEkdG17230 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:46:32 -0700 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: wood tubes Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: To all,Anyone know of a source for round wood tubes unfinished so Ican cut to lengthJoe Joe,I just got a bunch of catalogs from REC to take to the SouthernRodmakersGathering. One of their new items is a wood venner tube over a compositematerial. The pictures are stunning! That might be an idea that some of thewoodworking enthusiasts on the list could do something with. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 11 09:52:49 2000 e9BEqmG17646 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:52:48 -0500 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: No sweat Patrick, most of think the material was worth any grief, altho' Ihad none. GMA from caneman@clnk.com Wed Oct 11 10:10:22 2000 e9BFAMG18740 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Tony, I liked the verse... especially the fact that there wasn't a Robertthe Horrible, or Tony the Terrible in it! LOL -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: I can't say I completely understand this whole deal but the verse is prettygood. Tony At 11:59 PM 10/10/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:there's nothing quite like cutting one's nose off tospite one's face. timothy --- David La Touche wrote:This will be my last message to the list. To the493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war,I dedicate the attachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the backof my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program atleast as old as my 130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult toopen. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I sharewith you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods andget that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit aBudwiser beer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 atGil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah,blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.........> ïWPCt LaserJetIIP LaserJetIIP12pt(10cpi) 12pt (10cpi)(Bold) LaserJetIIP AôO áÝ THE IRISH, WITH THE HELP OF ST.PATRICKÅAôRáo THE RODMAKERS, IF NOT CIVILIZATIONÅ O upon a time, in an emerald landwas a monastery called MountTonkin, where dwelt acommunity of monks, led by their devoutAbbot, DomPatrick Le Bon. These holy men went about theirdailytasks with alacrity, carrying out the masterplan of their Abbotin bringing the word of Rod toChristian and pagan alike.However, they madecertain that the Christians got a little moreof theword than the pagans. Every morning, right aftermatins,Dom Patrick would harangue them, and exhortthem to use all oftheir skill in providing arcaneinformation to the Christianrodmakers, while merelytrying to convert the pagans and weanthem fromtheir heathen graphite implements. In the latter,theyhad little success, so closely attuned were thepagans to theirgraphite poles with which theyslaughtered the noble salmon, bythe thousands.Their methods were crude, and employeddynamitecaps, which led to certain salmon kills,or, if they were feelingparticularly sporting,employed cruel treble hooks, fashioned from bone,and smeared with peanut butter dyed with woad. At any rate, communication in this parallel world ofthe 5thcentury was not via carrier pigeon or handdelivery as one mightexpect, for an anomalous timewarp had assured that all of themonastic andChristian world was equipped with computersthateven today we can only dream about real"screamers" of perhaps10,000 mHz. The pagans, ofcourse, were still locked intheO pentium stage of computerdom, and havingthe patience ofmosquitos, they were sometimesfrustrated and angry when themonks emailed themlengthy tracts that spread the word of Rod,butlocked up their feeble computers. Then, on one summer evening, the monks were atdinner in therefectory. While they feasted onroast mutton, and quaffed fromflagons of Shiraz (itwasn't always Shiraz; if tax collectionswere down,they sometimes had to make do with AliceWhite),Brother Ralph read from THE BOOK, hismoonface gleaming in thecandle light, his voicedroning on and on about 101 ways toeliminate gluelines. Brother Caedfael mentally reviewed waysinwhich he might put Brother Ralph out of action as putting Cascara bark extract inhis tea, before the entirecommunity went mad fromhis droning. Brother William theHarmless wasbusing tables and looking for an opportunitytosnitch a little something out of Dom Patrick'sflagon of Shiraz.The other monks lolled in theirrattan captain's chairs ($49.95at Pier 1, nocommercial interest, blah, blah, blah.) DomPatrickrose to make an unaccustomed address to thecommunity,much to their shocked surprise. "Mybrethren, we are fastapproaching a crisis in thesupply side of our bamboo crop, andthe thickets ofthis precious material are becoming impenetrable. If we do not increase demand, we shall be inundatedwith asurplus." And even as he spoke, anotherbamboo shoot poked itsway through the floor. "Ipropose that tomorrow,immediatelyOmatins (even in crisis they were still devout) weshallrelease three entire chapters of THE BOOK." Agasp arose, asthough from one. This had neverhappened before. THE BOOK wassuch a closely heldsecret that only the abbot had read it allthe waythrough. The origin of THE BOOK was obscure, butsomebelieved that it had been discovered in a timecapsule labeled'CCCP' on the top of Mount Everett.To email out more than onepage a day was unheardof. Yet the Rules of Obedience requiredthem tofollow orders, and on the morrow it was done. Rodmaking in these times was primitive, with crudepoles oflancewood being favored, lines of wovenhorsehair being tied totheir ends, and crude fliesof chicken feathers attached. It waspossible tocatch salmon with these devices, but this wasperhapsanalogous to a blind pig occasionallyfinding an acorn, and, ifObe told, many of the fish wereAAsnaggedÇÇAA!ÇÇ Providing humblerodmakerswith an entire three chapters of THE BOOK would belikehanding over atomic secrets to a group ofunruly teenagers. Butat least it might have animmediate effect on the demand forbamboo, and afterthe destruction of all of the bamboo in therest ofthe world by the Knights of Tonkin, the price thatthemonastery would receive, as a monopolist, shouldfirm up. There was an immediate effect, but in the rudeencampments of thepagans. Their primitivecomputing devices locked up while tryingto downloadso many pages of information, and their crude33.3KOwere fried. While they raged, and tore their hair,theirsupreme leader, David the Bad, summoned hisassociate, David theWorse, and called in all thepetty chieftains. Rapidly theycobbled together acoalition of vikings, angles, jutes, saxons,pictsand scots, and set off for the emerald isle in theirlongships, calling in at the Faroe Islands and theIsle of Man, andother remote ports of north Europeto pick up reinforcements.The Swedes cautiouslydecided not to get involved, and the tribes from theAntipodes were too far away; anyway it was finalsweekin the Aussie Rules football season, andCarleton was whackingOtar out of West Coast, soAAtheyÇÇ AppçAAAAAAA*A couldn'tmake it. Six weeks later the bamboo spires of Mount TonkinAbbey loomedout of the morning mist; the monasticcommunity was still atmatins. The rag tag armystormed ashore, all carrying theirgraphite shields,graphite battle axes and bamboo froes ($29.95atHome Depot, no commercial interest, blah, blah,blah) andproceeded to split the bamboo pale thatsurrounded the monastery.They then entered theAbbey and lay about them with theirgraphite battleaxes, which proved to be too light to do anyrealdamage to the hard heads of the monks, thesmarter of whom playeddead. They had tried to pushBrother Ralph to the front line ashe was droning onabout different methods of dealing with nodes,buthe quickly hid under the refectory table. AbbotPatrick,game to the last, stood his ground,refusing to play dead. Hewas a pious monk, but alittle challenged above the eyebrows.O the Badgot him with a sucker blow with his graphitebattleaxe. The monks having been subdued, Davidthe Worse led thelooting parties, and they allreturned to their long ships, ladenwith booty, anddeparted for home. With his life blood fast leaving his broken body,Dom Patrickcarried out his final chore on his wayto martyrdom. Oneoperative computer and scannerremained, and in the short timethat remained tohim, brave Dom Patrick was able to scan in andOto the faithful, AAthe entireBOOK!ÇÇ And that, my children,was how BlessedPatrick Le Bon, soon to be St. Patrick (not theonewho did things with snakes; the other one) if theHoly Fathercomes through as promised, saved therodmakers and overcame thepagan users of graphite. Meanwhile, on the pagan long ships, matters were ina parlousstate.David the Bad (=B): "Well, where is it?"David the Worse (=W): "Where's what?" (he couldhave been adouble for Sylvester Stallone)B: "THE BOOK you cretin, you were supposed to getit!"W: (responds, his mouth half full of pizza) "Whoyou callin' acretin? You're abusin' me, I'll tellthe list!"B: "We're not on the list, you imbecile, we nevergotsubscribed. We're pagans, you numbskull! Andwhat about all theloot you were supposed to get?All you got were these 10sacksO funnylittle cylinders. Those bozos from the Isle of Mangotall the gold!"W: " Yeah, well I got plans for them littlecylinders. We canmake necklaces out of 'em, orlittle tiny wind bells. We cansell this stuff atcrafts fairs for lots of money! You an' me,O === message truncated ===> ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eys and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 11 10:11:35 2000 e9BFBYG18882 Subject: Re: No apology necessary. The guilt is on the head of the departed. Gladhe took my suggestion and unsubscribed. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Oct 11 10:18:31 2000 e9BFIUG19198 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:18:28 -0400 Subject: RE: wood tubes I've made hexagonal wood tubes for both my rods, one from cherry and theothher from oak. It is fast and very easy. Anybody who can make a rod cando this. All you do is cut six strips of wood to the desired length, about3/8 inch thick and about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch wide (depending on the size ofyour handle, etc.). I then bevel the edges of each strip to the appropriateangle, using my table saw - no need for hand planing here! And I glue themtogether with resorcinol, hand binding with a combination of masking tapeand kite string. Set them aside for a day or so to let the glue dry, thenunbind, sand, and finish. For an end cap I just cut a hexagonal piece ofwood to fit the opening and glue/screw it in place. The top is anotherpiece of wood cut hexagonally with rebates so that it fits about 1/2 inchinto the tube and also covers the end. There are various ways to securethis. I use a shrt length of rawhide shoelace, which I run through a holein one side of the tube, up through a hole in the cap, and then tie itaround a small brass finial fastened to the opposite side of the tube a fewinches down. The rawhide holds reasonably well, although I wouldn't want totrust it to stay tied on top of a car or in an airplane luggage compartmentor anything like that. It looks great, though. If you cut the seams smoothand straight and do a reasonably good glue job on them you have a stronglight weight rod case that will get oohs and aahs wherever you go. My wifethinks the cases are more impressive than the rods! ;-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 10:45 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: wood tubes Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: To all,Anyone know of a source for round wood tubes unfinished soIcan cut to lengthJoe Joe,I just got a bunch of catalogs from REC to take to the SouthernRodmakersGathering. One of their new items is a wood venner tube over a compositematerial. The pictures are stunning! That might be an idea that some ofthewoodworking enthusiasts on the list could do something with. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 11 10:39:05 2000 e9BFd2G20337 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:38:52 +0800 Subject: Re: "Rod Makers List Serve" I think there was a swipe at at least one Aussie though being a Rugby fan Iconfess he has a certain advantage to me in knowing just who won thefinals....did we have finals?? I didn't think Aussie Rules' season everstoped to have finals :-)Still, except for the slights on various persons it wasn't a bad readTony The Terrible.....Hmmmm I was once told I resembled a viking during asailing trip. I'd like to think it was my devil may care attitude towardadversity and personal discomfort but it was more likely a reflection onwhat I was prepared to eat and drink, most of it remaining in my beard :-) Tony At 10:06 AM 10/11/00 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Tony, I liked the verse... especially the fact that there wasn't a Robertthe Horrible, or Tony the Terrible in it! LOL The Swedes cautiouslydecided not to get involved, and the tribes from the Antipodes weretoo far away; anyway it was finalsweek in the Aussie Rules football season, and Carleton was whackingtar out of West Coast, so they couldn't make it. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "A man has two reasons for doing anything and he'll tell you one of them." Timothy Troester's Dad. /*************************************************************************/ from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Wed Oct 11 10:43:20 2000 e9BFhJG20579 Subject: List Archives - Jerry Foster Folks, (and Jerry Foster especially) as a bit of extra fallout from the latest "Patrick" brewhaha (btw...I think it's unfortunate that all this has transpired - I believe Patrick was, as always, genuinely trying to help)... Anyway, as some of you may know the list archives are also available via the LISTPROC server. All the messages for a month are collected in an archive file that can be download whenever one desires. This is how Jerry gets the messages to upload to the RODMAKERS webpage. Since the file can be quite large, whenever someone requests a copy of the archive, the LISTPROC breaks up the file into several separate emails so that your mail program won't choke. Unfortunately, with the inadvertent sending of the large file to the list, this large file was also added to the archive. So...what all this means is...requesting the October archive will result in having the LISTPROC sending over 100 emails to you. I am working with the Server folks to try and get the file purged from the archives. So, for now, unless you *REALLY* want the October archive, you might want to hold off requesting it. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 11 10:43:33 2000 e9BFhUG20605 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:43:27 +0800 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:43:25 +0800 Subject: Re: Forget it Patrick, what did you do wrong? Sure attachments are not normaly having and I can imagine you were pretty keen to give to the list whichonly makes the response all the more un-necessary.If anybody objected a simple request to refrain would have been more thanample. Tony At 06:25 AM 10/11/00 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:I would like to humbly apologize to you guys for subjecting you to thischildish tirade. I'm sorry that my lack of computer skills resulted in someone, who obviously has gone way past the time to change his diaper, castingdisparaging remarks about a bunch of men I consider my friends. Hopefullythe next time I try to pass some information along I will have figured outhow to do it without screwing up everyone's computers and getting some oneto write such a nasty tirade about good men. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "A man has two reasons for doing anything and he'll tell you one of them." Timothy Troester's Dad. /*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 11:12:59 2000 e9BGCwG22280 09:21:24 PDT Subject: Re: you know patrick, i don't think you can take thatmuch credit for this one. this fellow sounds to melike he was already cocked and loaded. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Oct 11 11:48:23 2000 e9BGmMG23911 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:47:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Ferrule problems Noblers correct,You must use slow set epoxy ( 24hr stuff)and ensure the ferrules are atight shaft fit i.e have to be forced on to the blank.........Paul nobler wrote: I NEVER use the 5- min. type epoxy for anything I want to really hold ! It'smeant for a "quick fix" in emergency situations ! I've recently triedProBond P-U adhesive, and like the foaming it does, to fill any voidsinside. So far none have shown even a tiny budge ! I'm wondering if your fit to the cane is a tight enough fit ? If you reallyhave to push, to get the ferrules on, then I'd suspect the mix ratio, etc.,with the epoxy used ? GMA from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Oct 11 12:26:14 2000 e9BHQDG25593 Subject: getting started This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C03386.FDC8BF80 have to agree with richard and others. as a novice myself, i feel =like this; i have a chance to travel across america for the first time. =do i fly a jetliner or take the bus? mike c. ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C03386.FDC8BF80 mike, = mike c. ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C03386.FDC8BF80-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Oct 11 12:49:22 2000 e9BHnLG26563 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: getting started This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C03389.F3375600 I should also add, the rod you produce using affordable tools will be everybit as good. Splitting a culm with a bamboo froe doesn't produce betterstrips. Cutting the strips to size using a Japanese hand saw will notproduce strips that are cut to a better length. Planing a rod with aLie-Nielsen plane will not give you better angles than with a flattennedRecord or Stanley. The first rod I built, a 7ft 4 wt Granger taper, remains one of my bestrods. Chris Lucker, a long-time list member mentioned the same thing to meabout his first rod. The care and attention one puts into building the rod,even with the most spartan of tools, will have a huge influence on itsquality. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: getting started mike,have to agree with richard and others. as a novice myself, i feel likethis; i have a chance to travel across america for the first time. do i flya jetliner or take the bus? still enroute,mike c. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C03389.F3375600 should also add, the rod you produce using affordable tools will be = good. Splitting a culm with a bamboo froe doesn't produce better strips. = with a Lie-Nielsen plane will not give you better angles than with a = Record or Stanley. first rod I built, a 7ft 4 wt Granger taper, remains one of my best = first rod. The care and attention one puts into building the rod, even = quality. Richard owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Behalf Of mike canazonSent: Wednesday, October 11,2000 = started mike, mike c. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C03389.F3375600-- from caneman@clnk.com Wed Oct 11 14:00:24 2000 e9BJ0NG00167 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:53:49 -0500 Subject: Re: getting started This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01C0338B.0F400B20 Very true... the only thing spending a fortune on tools will do is make =things a little easier. I'm actually afraid to add up what i have in =tools in that shop, but one of the first rods I built was for my Dad... =looks great ( this was probably rod #10 or so, so it certainly looks a =lot better than the first couple! LOL) and casts every bit as well as =the rods I build today... the culm was split with a modified butcher =knife (still my froe of choice, even though I have others), the rod was =planed with a stanley plane (still have that one and several more of the =same), straight beveled on a terrible looking oak roughing form, tapered =on a home made set of forms, heat treated in a piece of pipe with a =torch, nodes pressed with a $15 machinist vise (cheapest I could find =and I've been using it for over a decade now) heated with an old cellar =lamp that I found in my grandfathers stuff, just filled it with alcohol, =hand bound (because my first shot at making a Garrison style binder was =a complete and absolute disaster), straightened after glueing with a =blow dryer, etc... Difference between those rods and todays rods? I =have better tools and I can make them faster because of this, BUT, there =really isn't any need for a beginner or someone who is doing this as a =hobby to invest thousands and thousands of dollars in pretty tools. My =first few rods were made with probably no more than $100 to $200 worth =of tools... please allow for inflation, but it still wouldn't be very =much... and that is all a person needs to get started making rods. What does it take?Tool CostRoughing form $10 (make =it yourself)Misc files $30Stanley plane $40Planing forms $60 =(again, make it yourself)Binder $50 =(one more time... make your own)Heat treating setup $25 =(includes black pipe and cheap torch)Froe $5 =(butcher knives are cheap at Wally World)Sanding blocks $10 =with sandpaperheat gun for straightening $25cheap vise $15 Total =$270 See, you can get by pretty cheap if you don't mind a few =inconveniences... and if you really like it, and think you want to do =enough rodmaking to spend the money on tools, then you can go ahead and =put out a few thousand for a good metal lathe, a wood lathe, bevelers, =nice prefabbed roughing and planing forms, LN Scrapers and planes, a =varnishing setup, dust collectors, etc... but to get started... keep it = Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 12:43 PMSubject: RE: getting started I should also add, the rod you produce using affordable tools will =be every bit as good. Splitting a culm with a bamboo froe doesn't =produce better strips. Cutting the strips to size using a Japanese hand =saw will not produce strips that are cut to a better length. Planing a =rod with a Lie- Nielsen plane will not give you better angles than with a =flattenned Record or Stanley. The first rod I built, a 7ft 4 wt Granger taper, remains one of my =best rods. Chris Lucker, a long-time list member mentioned the same =thing to me about his first rod. The care and attention one puts into =building the rod, even with the most spartan of tools, will have a huge =influence on its quality. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 4:27 PM Subject: getting started have to agree with richard and others. as a novice myself, i =feel like this; i have a chance to travel across america for the first =time. do i fly a jetliner or take the bus? mike c. ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01C0338B.0F400B20 Very true... the only thingspending = add up what i have in tools in that shop, but one of the first rods I = looks a lot better than the first couple! LOL) and casts every bit as = the rods I build today... the culm was split with a modified butcher = (still my froe of choice, even though I have others), the rod was planed = stanley plane (still have that one and several more of the same), = beveled on a terrible looking oak roughing form, tapered on a home made = forms, heat treated in a piece of pipe with a torch, nodes pressed with = machinist vise (cheapest I could find and I've been using it for over a = now) heated with an old cellar lamp that I found in my grandfathers = filled it with alcohol, hand bound (because my first shot at making a = style binder was a complete and absolute disaster), straightened after = with a blow dryer, etc... Difference between those rods and todays = have better tools and I can make them faster because of this, BUT, there = isn't any need for a beginner or someone who is doing this as a hobby to = made with probably no more than $100 to $200 worth of tools... please = inflation, but it still wouldn't be very much... and that is all a = to get started making rods. What does ittake? Cost $10 (make it yourself) $30 $40 World) $25 $15 $270 See,you can = cheap if you don't mind a few inconveniences... and if you really like = think you want to do enough rodmaking to spend the money on tools, then = go ahead and put out a few thousand for a good metal lathe, a wood = bevelers, nice prefabbed roughing and planing forms, LN Scrapers and = Later,Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, October 11, 2000 12:43 PMSubject: RE: = started should also add, the rod you produce using affordable tools will be = bit as good. Splitting a culm with a bamboo froe doesn't produce = strips that are cut to a better length. Planing a rod with a = plane will not give you better angles than with a flattenned Record = Stanley. The first rod I built, a 7ft 4 wt Granger= attention one puts into building the rod, even with the most spartan = tools, will have a huge influence on its =quality. Richard canazonSent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 4:27 = started mike, bus? mike c. ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01C0338B.0F400B20-- from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 11 14:03:02 2000 e9BJ31G00426 Subject: Re: getting started Richard, It is possible to get too spartan. I made my first rod on a tapered(non- adjustable) groove in a stick, using a 2 1/2" exato plane, a woodenwrapping machine, and a beat up micrometer. I might have used a chainsaw, but I don't remember. The rod turned out to be a very good fishingrod, but a sight for sore eyes, it was not. Bumpy finish, glaciercravasse sized voids in the glue line. ungraceful handle. The onlything going for it was the action. It was one of my best rods. Thething I lacked, and the thing no body needs to lack any more is goodadvice. Good tools make it a bit easier, but the difference in aStanley and a Lie Nielsen is mostly cosmetic. Ralph from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 14:12:27 2000 e9BJCQG00988 12:12:25 PDT Subject: Re: look david, if you haven't gotten the message yet, this is not what we do here. we love bamboo. and areintrested in sharing info. if sniping is what youlike i am sure there are lots of places to go. butplease leave me out of it. hiding behind a fake nameon a news group to take out lifes frustrations, tho'safe, is a pretty cowardly and low down. just leaveme out of it! timothy --- David La Touche wrote: Well, you might try it sometime! At 11:59 PM 10/10/00 -0700, you wrote:there's nothing quite like cutting one's nose offtospite one's face. timothy --- David La Touche wrote: ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Oct 11 14:44:28 2000 e9BJiRG02598 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:44:20 +0100 Subject: Re: Getting started I started building bamboo rods ( split cane to us Brits )ten years ago. My startup equipment being as follows; Rough form; Made myself from pine. Plane; Stanley 91/2 £30 Planing Form; Originally Scrounged from a local rod builder Second planing form; Hand Made for free by a machinist friend. Binder; Originally I hand bound all my rods.I now havea binder made by my machinist friend above.Cost.....another bottle of scotch at Xmas! Kite string for binder £5 for 100yd spool ,Ouch this one hurt ! Assorted files etc; Bought for £10 max ,all used from a market trader. Heat Treatment Pipe Scrounged from my place of work.Completewith lagging and thermocouple units. Blow lamp Already had ! Bamboo Culms Purchased 10 from my rod builder friend..£20(Poles to us chaps!) Miscellaineous Adhesive, sand/glass paper,Varnish etc ...$20 Drying Cabinet Made myself.....£10 Dipping tube Made myself......£5 The point to note is that to get together all the above TOOK ME about 2years.Mainly because at the time I was the only one working as my wife was(and still is)busy with our children.During this time I read everything I could get myhands on to dowith rod building.....would I do it again if I had the sparecash......NOI would go out and buy all new kit and purpose made.........Paul from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Oct 11 15:41:55 2000 e9BKfrG05879 Subject: RE: Dave - I don't know who you are. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: This will be my lastmessage to the list. To the 493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war, I dedicate the attachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the back of my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program at least as old as my 130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to open. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I share with you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods and get that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit a Budwiser beer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 at Gil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......... from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 11 15:53:20 2000 e9BKrKG06314 Subject: Brian Creek's Letter on FR&R Brian, I'd be interested to hear if FR&R responded in private to you. the lack of bamboo rod test reports. I wonder if they'll change their ways? Nice letter. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 11 15:58:18 2000 e9BKwHG06594 (mail_out_v28.26.) id 2.29.b45ad17 (3976); Subject: Re: In a message dated 10/11/00 8:39:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Tony, No, it was because you don't shower for days on end. Don B. from seanmcs@ar.com.au Wed Oct 11 16:40:48 2000 e9BLejG08216 Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:46:58 +1100 Subject: Re: Patrick: As I mentioned off line, the download gave me time to tend tomy veggie garden and then get on with it!. Thanks for the info. Sean "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: I would like to humbly apologize to you guys for subjecting you to thischildish tirade. I'm sorry that my lack of computer skills resulted in someone, who obviously has gone way past the time to change his diaper, castingdisparaging remarks about a bunch of men I consider my friends. Hopefullythe next time I try to pass some information along I will have figured out howto do it without screwing up everyone's computers and getting some one towrite such a nasty tirade about good men. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 11:02 PM This will be my last message to the list. To the 493 list members whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war, I dedicate theattachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the back of my hand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program at least as old as my130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to open. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I share with you that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods and get that 7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit a Budwiser beer can at 65ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 at Gil's. No commercialinterest, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......... from piscator@crosswinds.net Wed Oct 11 17:04:22 2000 e9BM4LG08946 Subject: Letter to FR&R --------------B0853F58114D10EEE8C203FF Here's the e-mail I sent to Jim Butler. I'd just read the column, itwas late, and I'd had most of a bottle of a really good Pinot Noir (nicebody, good legs, peppery-spice aftertones and a smoooth finish), andwas annoyed by the short shrift we always get in the graphite fundedmass media. I never thought they'd print the damn thing. Brian Subject:New Gear column in july/august editionDate:Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:01:00 -0400From:"Brian D. Creek" jbutler@flyrodreel.com Jim, Love your magazine but. . . . In the most recent issue you had the chance to give a good, detailed review on two cane rods. Forget for a minute that they were imports.Buzz Bryson did a good job on the Winston (they also make kick buttbamboo rods, including a new quad I'm dying to try) and Sage Rods, but I feel that he treated the cane rods as expensive curiosities that happento smell good. At least in the shorter lengths. As a very part-time bamboo rod builder I hear that sort of thing alot. Its just a shame to see one of my favorite magazines perpetuatingthe myths about split bamboo rods rather than explaining whattechnically precise tools they can be. Taper design, material andcomponent selection, craftsmanship, and everything else that goes intomaking a synthetic rod goes into making a split bamboo rod. In fact,more effort is invested in the construction of a good cane rod than aplastic rod. It's the difference between buying your suits off the rack or going to a tailor. Of course, not all cane rods are of thatquality. There were certainly thousands and thousands of productionrods churned out in the last hundred years that were fair to middlin' or worse. But the vast majority of the rods being made today by some verytalented craftsmen are among the best cane rods that have ever beenbuilt. And they are getting better. The best of today's craftsmenoperate in what I've heard described as "boutique" rod makingenterprises. Very small production and very high quality. These guys(and women) are able to stand on the shoulders of the best rodmakers ofthe last century and improve on their work. Getting back to the import rods. There are probably fiftyexceptional makers in the US working for themselves or one of thecompanies that still make cane rods. Why don't you have someone whounderstands and appreciates cane rods as the outstanding fishing toolthat the good ones invariably are review the state of the art today,just as you do ad nauseum with the plastic rods? Until that type ofcritical review of split bamboo fly rods starts showing up in magazineslike FR&R the vast majority of anglers are never going to understand how to make an informed buying decision or be able to separate fact fromfable wrt bamboo fly rods. And there is certainly more fable than factcirculating now. Tight (glue) lines, Brian CreekHolland, Michigan --------------B0853F58114D10EEE8C203FF it was late, and I'd had most of a bottle of a really good Pinot Noir (nice and was annoyed by the short shrift we always get in the graphite funded BrianSubject: NewGear column in july/august edition Fri,30 Jun 2000 00:01:00 -0400 "BrianD. Creek" <piscator@crosswinds.net> jbutler@flyrodreel.com Jim, . youhad the chance to give a good, detailed minutethat they were imports.Buzz Bryson did a good job on the Winston (theyalso make kick buttbamboo rods, including a new quad I'm dying totry) and Sage Rods, but Ifeel that he treated the cane rods as expensivecuriosities that happen lengths. bamboorod builder I hear that sort of thing alot. Its just a shame to see one of my favoritemagazines perpetuatingthe myths about split bamboo rods rather thanexplaining what Taper design, material andcomponent selection, craftsmanship, andeverythingelse that goes intomaking a synthetic rod goes into making a split more effort is invested in the construction ofa good cane rod than a buying your suits off the rack cane rods are of that and thousands of productionrods churned out in the last hundred years thatwere fair to middlin' or being made today by some verytalented craftsmen are among the best canerodsthat have ever been The best of today's craftsmenoperate in what I've heard described as"boutique"rod making (and women) are able to stand on the shouldersof the best rodmakers ofthe last century and improve on theirwork. exceptional makers in the US working forthemselvesor one of the Whydon't you have someone whounderstands and appreciates cane rods as theoutstanding fishing toolthat the good ones invariably are review thestate of the art today,just as you do ad nauseum with the plastic Until that type ofcritical review of split bamboo fly rods startsshowing up in magazineslike FR&R the vast majority of anglers arenever going to understand howto make an informed buying decision or be ableto separate fact from certainly more fable than factcirculating now.Tight (glue) lines,Brian CreekHolland, Michigan --------------B0853F58114D10EEE8C203FF-- from piscator@crosswinds.net Wed Oct 11 17:44:45 2000 e9BMiiG10237 Subject: Re: Brian Creek's Letter on FR&R Don, No, they didn't. They didn't even check to see if I was really theauthor. Maybe my reputation precedes me? ;^) Brian from johnsabina@home.com Wed Oct 11 18:18:39 2000 e9BNIcG11213 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:18:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Getting started Mike: I know of no kit that is available. Jeff Wagner (J D Wagner Rod Co) has akit or two of the small tools that might help. The advice that you havebeen getting from the list as to possible sources and recommended booksandvideos is sound advise to me. May I suggest another possiblity? Consider abamboo rod building class. A week long class will allow you to build acomplete blank, using someone else's "kit" of tools, and under the watchfuleye of an experienced rodmaker. You get started on the right foot and getto try different tools without buying the ones that you don't like. A week long class can be a bit expensive as they cost about the same asbuying your first cane rod ($800 - $1000). I know of good classes by WayneCattanach and Ron Barch in Michigan, Jeff Wagner in Ohio, and George Maurerin Pennsylvania. I'm sure that there are other good classes as well. Itook Wayne C's class in June of this year and consider it money well spent. JJS-----Original Message----- Subject: Getting started Hello all, I am just venturing into the wonderful world of split cane (I gotintroduced while refinishing a rod for my grandfather) and I am looking fora good way to get started. I was hoping to find a commercially availablestarter kit but all my searches turned up nothing. Will I need to acquireall the tools/planers etc. separately or does anyone know of a complete kit(i.e. cane, planers, book etc.) that I can purchase? Thanks in advance forany information you might have on how you got started. Mike Robinson from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 11 18:26:27 2000 e9BNQQG11522 Subject: Re: Brian Creek's Letter on FR&R Brian, I guess I'm need to get out my words cut out of the newspaper and "write" them a letter. Don from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 11 18:50:24 2000 e9BNoNG12117 Subject: Re: Letter to FR&R In a message dated 10/11/00 3:05:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, piscator@crosswinds.net writes: Brian, I'm trying to remember the exact quote said by Lincoln about Gen. U.S. Grant when he was told that Grant drank a good deal of wiskey. It went something like: "Find out what brand and send a cask to each of my generals!" Don Burns from gjm80301@yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 20:07:53 2000 e9C17qG13583 2000 18:07:52 PDT Subject: Re: Letter to FR&R Brian, Buzz was a fishing buddy until I moved west six years ago. I'll havea word with him next time I see him. I swear he cast my Thrameryears ago. Jerry --- "Brian D. Creek" wrote:Here's the e-mail I sent to Jim Butler. I'd just read the column,itwas late, and I'd had most of a bottle of a really good Pinot Noir(nicebody, good legs, peppery-spice aftertones and a smoooth finish),andwas annoyed by the short shrift we always get in the graphitefundedmass media. I never thought they'd print the damn thing. Brian Subject:New Gear column in july/august editionDate:Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:01:00 -0400From:"Brian D. Creek" jbutler@flyrodreel.com Jim, Love your magazine but. . . . In the most recent issue you had the chance to give a good,detailed review on two cane rods. Forget for a minute that they wereimports.Buzz Bryson did a good job on the Winston (they also make kick buttbamboo rods, including a new quad I'm dying to try) and Sage Rods,but I feel that he treated the cane rods as expensive curiosities thathappento smell good. At least in the shorter lengths. As a very part-time bamboo rod builder I hear that sort ofthing alot. Its just a shame to see one of my favorite magazinesperpetuatingthe myths about split bamboo rods rather than explaining whattechnically precise tools they can be. Taper design, material andcomponent selection, craftsmanship, and everything else that goesintomaking a synthetic rod goes into making a split bamboo rod. Infact,more effort is invested in the construction of a good cane rod thanaplastic rod. It's the difference between buying your suits off therack or going to a tailor. Of course, not all cane rods are of thatquality. There were certainly thousands and thousands ofproductionrods churned out in the last hundred years that were fair tomiddlin' or worse. But the vast majority of the rods being made today by someverytalented craftsmen are among the best cane rods that have ever beenbuilt. And they are getting better. The best of today's craftsmenoperate in what I've heard described as "boutique" rod makingenterprises. Very small production and very high quality. Theseguys(and women) are able to stand on the shoulders of the bestrodmakers ofthe last century and improve on their work. Getting back to the import rods. There are probably fiftyexceptional makers in the US working for themselves or one of thecompanies that still make cane rods. Why don't you have someonewhounderstands and appreciates cane rods as the outstanding fishingtoolthat the good ones invariably are review the state of the arttoday,just as you do ad nauseum with the plastic rods? Until that typeofcritical review of split bamboo fly rods starts showing up inmagazineslike FR&R the vast majority of anglers are never going tounderstand how to make an informed buying decision or be able to separate factfromfable wrt bamboo fly rods. And there is certainly more fable thanfactcirculating now. Tight (glue) lines, Brian CreekHolland, Michigan __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 21:32:42 2000 e9C2WfG15280 19:32:40 PDT Subject: Re: Letter to FR&R don, that was close enough. timothy --- Canerods@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 10/11/00 3:05:20 PM PacificDaylight Time, piscator@crosswinds.net writes: read the column, itwas late, and I'd had most of a bottle of a reallygood Pinot Noir (nicebody, good legs, peppery-spice aftertones and asmoooth finish), andwas annoyed by the short shrift we always get inthe graphite fundedmass media. I never thought they'd print the damnthing. Brian >> Brian, I'm trying to remember the exact quote said byLincoln about Gen. U.S. Grant when he was told that Grant drank a good deal ofwiskey. It went something like: "Find out what brand andsend a cask to each of my generals!" Don Burns ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from piscator@crosswinds.net Wed Oct 11 21:49:01 2000 e9C2n1G15779 Subject: Re: Letter to FR&R Jerry, Well that's just the point, in'it? AJ's rods cost about as much as atop end Sage or Winston. If a guy is willing to shell out $700 and up if the media would present the various alternatives in a nice, unbiasedway. It wasn't too long ago that bamboo was listed as another choicealong with graphite and glass. I'm going to quit, because I know I'm preaching to the choir (andpastor, in Harry's case.) Brian from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 21:57:36 2000 e9C2vZG16147 19:57:34 PDT Subject: Re: Letter to FR&R if you're going to preach why not preach to peoplethat will agree with you. :-) timothy --- "Brian D. Creek" wrote:Jerry, Well that's just the point, in'it? AJ's rods costabout as much as atop end Sage or Winston. If a guy is willing toshell out $700 and up and it would be niceif the media would present the various alternativesin a nice, unbiasedway. It wasn't too long ago that bamboo was listedas another choicealong with graphite and glass. I'm going to quit, because I know I'm preaching tothe choir (andpastor, in Harry's case.) Brian ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Oct 11 22:52:44 2000 e9C3qiG17483 Subject: Re: Brian Creek's Letter (& good tarpon guide) Bravo Brian!I went to my local flyshop and looked up the letter (didn't buy the mag tho...).Actually there is a periodical I see called something like "Angler's Quarterly"-sorry, it's pretty late. Anyway, therein is a column titled "Cane Currents" by John Gierach's friend, Ed Engle. He interviews a new cane rod maker in each issue. A really nice venue for the craft.Totally unrelated here, but I just got back from my in-laws in Miami. If anybody needs a good guide for Biscayne bay and keys, I can highlyrecommend one. Got me into some baby tarpon, sighted some permit (HARD to seduce!!), but the bones were put off by the freshwater runoff from last week'smonsoon. Keith was a great sighter and had a knack for helping me chill out and cast to the fish. The 10wt plastic he supplied was, uh, not a good match for a cane guy like me-but that company does sponsor/certify him. Gonna have to build up a 10wt Scott...Feel free to contact me off list as to not appear to have any commercial interest and all that. Rob Hoffhines from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 01:39:32 2000 e9C6dWG20678 Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:39:26 -0700 Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:39:26 GMT Subject: Mags, Rods and such FILETIME=[2A4E7190:01C03417] I don't know if one of my rods is quite the intro you need to make that big immpression, all most of the mainstream FF people remember about cane is what they read in the Orvis or Winston catalog. I know that my heros are supposed to be Payne or Garrison but instead they run to Phillipson, Granger and Heddon and my rods reflect that I'm afraid. Back to a point from a few months ago... we don't haul the freight like the plastic boys do. Don't think that we want to either. Our rods rest their laurels on performance, not hype. Within large parameters, graphite is graphite is graphite. The complexities of taper are simply not available to them so they have to SELL the rods with IMAGE and ADVERTISING(sorryabout the shouting!)Sure Winstons and Scotts are a bit slower than a Sage but that can be fixed with a bit of whiteout and writing a different line weight on the poor, pathetic ROUND rodshaft :)Even my fathers 4wt Sage worked OK as soon as it was properly lined with a DT6. More and more cane is showing up on the 'big' rivers, that is a direct result of a segment of the FF public rejecting the meaningless hype profferred by the pointy head editors awash in 'special interest money' and the fact that they can buy a rod that is almost assuredly better than even some of the best rods made during the golden era. It is a sel fulfilling prophecy, the more we build, the more show up on the river and the more we will build to satisfy the needs of the new convert who discovered that cane has brought a newfoung pleasure and grace to his sport(I still don't think God approves of catching his fish with plastic rods:) ). Sorry guys, I had better stop or I could write the article from hell for the 'rags'. A.J.Thramer ps: Always tend to run on when I have been cooped up in the rod shop too long._________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu Oct 12 01:42:33 2000 e9C6gWG20818 fwd04.sul.t-online.com +0200 Subject: Re: Guide spacing Hello nobler, it's really kind of you to share all these informations with the rookieI am. No need to send me the guide spacing, because Danny Twang already Thanks again Ralf nobler schrieb: Hello Ralf, I have a PHY Midge, and have offered the guide spacing to all. If you stillneed this, just ask, and I'll forward it to you. GMA from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu Oct 12 02:12:43 2000 e9C7CgG21407 fwd04.sul.t-online.com +0200 Subject: Thank you Hello list, thank you all for the informations on rod building, especially on guidespacing (Special thanks to Art Port, Larry Blan, Tom Bowden, PatrickCoffey, Danny Twang and Nobler). But there is one thing I have to blameyou all for: None of you guys warned me of getting hooked to buildingsplit cane rods. Whenever I have the time I sneak to my shop and work onbamboo strips, ferrules and so on. Guess who is not very happy with that- my dear beloved wife. Unfortunately she doesn't either care forfishing or eating fish. So each time I return from a frustrating fishingtrip with zero fish in my basket, she is more than happy, because shewon't have to deal with the smelly stuff (that's what she calls them).But the poor fellow I am is really proud and happy to be part of thislist, among the finest experts on rod building from the USA, Canada,Australia, Europe and the rest of the world. Gut Span (means: Successful planing, my regards to Stefan Grau fromSwitzerland) your poor fellow from Germany Ralf from caneman@clnk.com Thu Oct 12 02:20:56 2000 e9C7KtG21818 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Thank you Ralf,The wife dilemma is universal... except for in my situation. As muchtime as I've spent in the shop in the past decade (actually more, but don'twant to give away my age... LOL), I have managed to "run off" two wives!So, now, the only one that gets lonely when I am in the shop planing onstrips is my dog, and if she gets too lonely, she'll just come out and layunder the workbench while I plane. I never could get either of my wives tolay under the workbench! If ever I marry again, I think it will have to beto a lady that loves flyfishing, loves bamboo, and owns her own planingforms... well, a sizable inheritance wouldn't hurt either! Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Thank you Hello list, thank you all for the informations on rod building, especially on guidespacing (Special thanks to Art Port, Larry Blan, Tom Bowden, PatrickCoffey, Danny Twang and Nobler). But there is one thing I have to blameyou all for: None of you guys warned me of getting hooked to buildingsplit cane rods. Whenever I have the time I sneak to my shop and work onbamboo strips, ferrules and so on. Guess who is not very happy with that- my dear beloved wife. Unfortunately she doesn't either care forfishing or eating fish. So each time I return from a frustrating fishingtrip with zero fish in my basket, she is more than happy, because shewon't have to deal with the smelly stuff (that's what she calls them).But the poor fellow I am is really proud and happy to be part of thislist, among the finest experts on rod building from the USA, Canada,Australia, Europe and the rest of the world. Gut Span (means: Successful planing, my regards to Stefan Grau fromSwitzerland) your poor fellow from Germany Ralf from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 12 02:26:08 2000 e9C7Q5G22208 Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:26:00 +0800 Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:25:59 +0800 Subject: Re: Thank you "Rod Makers List Serve" I must confess when it comes to the wife detartment I'm saddled with onewho understands me. :-) Tony At 02:17 AM 10/12/00 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Ralf,The wife dilemma is universal... except for in my situation. As muchtime as I've spent in the shop in the past decade (actually more, but don'twant to give away my age... LOL), I have managed to "run off" two wives!So, now, the only one that gets lonely when I am in the shop planing onstrips is my dog, and if she gets too lonely, she'll just come out and layunder the workbench while I plane. I never could get either of my wives tolay under the workbench! If ever I marry again, I think it will have to beto a lady that loves flyfishing, loves bamboo, and owns her own planingforms... well, a sizable inheritance wouldn't hurt either! Later,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "A man has two reasons for doing anything and he'll tell you one of them." Timothy Troester's Dad. /*************************************************************************/ from grau@buchlang.com Thu Oct 12 02:54:07 2000 e9C7s6G22785 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: Thank you Thanks Ralf for the "Gut Span" i know the sories about womans "without planing forms" - i have the pleasureto have a "fishing wife", unfortunately no a flyfishing woman, bu she`sfishing (*thank you god* *lol*) and ask me when i will make her bait rod forworming, shure she will`s a cane rod *uuuuuuuuuuh*.... Regards Stefan Ralf Ladda schrieb: Hello list, thank you all for the informations on rod building, especially on guidespacing (Special thanks to Art Port, Larry Blan, Tom Bowden, PatrickCoffey, Danny Twang and Nobler). But there is one thing I have to blameyou all for: None of you guys warned me of getting hooked to buildingsplit cane rods. Whenever I have the time I sneak to my shop and work onbamboo strips, ferrules and so on. Guess who is not very happy with that- my dear beloved wife. Unfortunately she doesn't either care forfishing or eating fish. So each time I return from a frustrating fishingtrip with zero fish in my basket, she is more than happy, because shewon't have to deal with the smelly stuff (that's what she calls them).But the poor fellow I am is really proud and happy to be part of thislist, among the finest experts on rod building from the USA, Canada,Australia, Europe and the rest of the world. Gut Span (means: Successful planing, my regards to Stefan Grau fromSwitzerland) your poor fellow from Germany Ralf --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen. S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 12 03:37:09 2000 e9C8b6G23432 Subject: Re: I'd better stop now, I have more than enough traits to be labeled Terrible :-( Tony At 04:58 PM 10/11/00 -0400, Canerods@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 10/11/00 8:39:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: sailing trip. I'd like to think it was my devil may care attitude towardadversity and personal discomfort but it was more likely a reflection onwhat I was prepared to eat and drink, most of it remaining in my beard :-) Tony >> Tony, No, it was because you don't shower for days on end. Don B. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "A man has two reasons for doing anything and he'll tell you one of them." Timothy Troester's Dad. /*************************************************************************/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Oct 12 07:19:42 2000 e9CCJfG25903 Subject: Re: Mags, Rods and such Rave on A. J. I agree with all you said, but were it not for Phillipson, Granger andHeddon, I believe many of us would never have been bitten by the "cane" bug.Your contribution to our "niche" is appreciated. Ed I know that my heros aresupposed to be Payne or Garrison but instead they run to Phillipson,Grangerand Heddon and my rods reflect that I'm afraid. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Oct 12 07:35:32 2000 e9CCZVG26246 Subject: RE: Patrick -- The problem was not your message -- a civil request was all it took toremind you of its size. In fact, if messages like yours result in thedeparture of people like this I think we ought to be sure to send one everyfew months. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:25 AM Subject: I would like to humbly apologize to you guys for subjectingyou to this childish tirade. I'm sorry that my lack of computer skillsresulted in some one, who obviously has gone way past the time to changehisdiaper, casting disparaging remarks about a bunch of men I consider myfriends. Hopefully the next time I try to pass some information along I willhave figured out how to do it without screwing up everyone's computers andgetting some one to write such a nasty tirade about good men. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 11:02 PM This will be my last message to the list. To the 493 listmembers whoelected not to flame me during the recent word war, Idedicate the attachedparable. For the 5 or 6 who did, I offer the back of myhand; and Icertainly would not wish to go fishing with you. The attachment is in Word Perfect 5.1, a program at leastas old as my 130mHz computer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to open. Now that I am soon to be off the list, may I share withyou that my firstact will be to head over to Gil's Custom Rods and get that7'6" 4 piece6wt. GRAPHITE rod blank with which I can hit a Budwiserbeer can at 65 ft.sitting in my float tube. This sells for $50 at Gil's.No commercialinterest, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......... from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Thu Oct 12 08:05:06 2000 e9CD56G26955 Subject: Re: Thank you Ralf, My wife is kind enough to encourage my hobbies, but after she plans thesocial schedule, there is little time left. Kevin from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 12 09:19:53 2000 e9CEJqG29826 Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:19:51 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Thank you Man I know this one well, as I'm a 3 times loser/4th time winner in thisdepartment ! I'm 68 today, and the last 23 have been with a gal I tookfishing on our second date. I hung a bass, that got wrapped in a bush. Rightaway, I was looking at a nice rear end, hanging off the front of the boat,net in hand, to get it out of the bush ! I kept both ! GMA from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Oct 12 09:32:02 2000 e9CEW1G00501 JAA18532 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 Subject: Cane softens at what temp? Has anyone ever figured out the actual temperature that cane needsto be heated to, for straightening strips, pressing nodes etc?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 09:45:32 2000 e9CEjWG01162 07:45:30 PDT Subject: Re: Thank you But there is onething I have to blameyou all for: None of you guys warned me of gettinghooked to buildingsplit cane rods. Whenever I have the time I sneak tomy shop and work onbamboo strips, ferrules and so on. Guess who is notvery happy with that well..welcome to the crowd. it's all down hill fromhere. before long you'll be smokin' cigars, mutterin'to yourself and droolin' whiskey down your chin....andif you work it right she'll order you to your shop tilyou can learn to behave in polite society. after awhile you'll have a cot in the shed and come back tothe house once a day for a meal. your neigbors willshun you and small children will flee screaming at thesite of you. so far, i can only speculate as to whathappens after this. :-) timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Oct 12 09:47:24 2000 e9CElNG01401 Subject: Re: Thank you On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Tony Young wrote: I must confess when it comes to the wife detartment I'm saddled with onewho understands me. :-) **** Now there's a priceless typo! It was a typo, correct? I know there are a bunch of AU slang words I'venever heard. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 09:49:41 2000 e9CEnfG01565 07:49:36 PDT Subject: Re: Thank you tony, is that why they say you're living in the shedout back of the house? :-) timothy --- Tony Young wrote:I must confess when it comes to the wife detartmentI'm saddled with onewho understands me. :-) Tony At 02:17 AM 10/12/00 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Ralf,The wife dilemma is universal... except for inmy situation. As muchtime as I've spent in the shop in the past decade(actually more, but don'twant to give away my age... LOL), I have managed to"run off" two wives!So, now, the only one that gets lonely when I am inthe shop planing onstrips is my dog, and if she gets too lonely,she'll just come out and layunder the workbench while I plane. I never couldget either of my wives tolay under the workbench! If ever I marry again, Ithink it will have to beto a lady that loves flyfishing, loves bamboo, andowns her own planingforms... well, a sizable inheritance wouldn't hurteither! Later,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "A man has two reasons for doing anything and he'lltell you one of them." Timothy Troester's Dad. /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!http://mail.yahoo.com/ from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Thu Oct 12 09:51:36 2000 e9CEpZG01788 Subject: List Archives Just want let everyone know that all is well with the October archives. If anyone is interested in seeing all the October messages posted to date, they can be downloaded from the LISTPROC address (send the HELPcommand for specific archive instructions for downloading and searching). Special thank to Jerry Foster for uploading the lists messages to the RODMAKERS webpage at the end of each month. Also thanks to FrankStetzer Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 09:58:20 2000 e9CEwKG02411