I shall never have a "Ring of Fire" I have to becontendwith the second best, my "pipe of Fire" --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------7F513F3B1C1F1138E0B0F4AA-- from dickay@alltel.net Tue Oct 17 14:01:55 2000 e9HJ1sG00304 Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:01:10 -0500 , Subject: Re: Cutters for ferrule stations Organization: George, I have a problem with using a 4 jawed chuck on a hex rod shaft. How do youdo that without damaging something? Dick & Kathy Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net If people concentrated on the reallyimportant things in life, there'd be ashortage of fishing poles.Doug Larson from iank@ts.co.nz Tue Oct 17 14:02:11 2000 e9HJ29G00395 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: case Hardy made rod cases out of bamboo culms for a number of years in theearlypart of the century . They are highly sort after by collectors. They arevery attractive cases , usually flamed and with fitted brass end caps. Theusually had the nodes flattened ( I am not sure if they were pressed orfiled :) I have made several but there are a few problems with making them.The problems I have found are they are hard to get absolutely straight .Maybe something like the "Ring of fire" might help. The Hardy cases werebuilt without spliting the culm and therefore the task of taking out thedams is not easy. I used an extending shaft on the end of a drill with arasp bit on the end and this did a reasonable , but not perfect job. Someonewith more engineering skills then me could probably make up a suitablecutter tool. I think it was Shaun from Sydney who mentioned that he had interior dams out of bamboo for this use. I did come across some bamboo used on the interior of carpet rolls whichwasof a similar or slightly larger dimension to rodmakers bamboo and verystraight. The walls were not thick enough for making rods but it was ideal be worth trying a bamboo supplier for bamboo which is better suited for thispurpose, i.e. is straight and has a long distance between dams. In the end in my case I bought a large ( for me) quantity of aluminium rodcases very cheaply from a local rod manufacturer who had them as surplusandfound this the easiest way to make cases. At the same time if I wereconsidering making a very special rod I would contemplate making a bamboocase but would probably experiment with splitting the culm to ensure thatthe dams were totally removed. regards Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: case Just something to think about, Bob Milward made a rod case out of a lengthof culm. He split it length wise down the middle, lined it with red feltcovering pieces of fitted foam, brass hinges and scrim shawed and varnishedthe out side of the blonde culm. It was the most beautiful case that I hadever seen and just seemed to fit in with the cane rod inside and he used aculm that wasn't good enough to make a rod out of. He left the end dams inso he didn't need endcaps for it. The rod inside had gold plated ferrulesand reel bands--- most impressive. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from zimmer@adams.net Tue Oct 17 14:02:18 2000 e9HJ2HG00403 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: Re: RING OF FIRE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C03843.A9CE2E80 It looks like it wouldnt be too difficult to rig a ring out of copper =and silver solder it...and i would think a small propane tank that you =could move outside would be appropriate. I'm reminded of the pinfeather =burner at the duckcamp...Just fire her up and hold the plucked duck (at =arms length) in front of the burner. No more feathers!!! You sure =wouldnt want to use that baby inside. I wonder just how hot the burner =tips would get? And follw up, would copper be appropriate? ==Randy Zimmerman ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C03843.A9CE2E80 It looks like it wouldnt be too difficult to rig a = copper and silver solder it...and i would think a small propane tank = could move outside would be appropriate. I'm reminded of the pinfeather = at the duckcamp...Just fire her up and hold the plucked duck (at arms = front of the burner. No more feathers!!! You sure wouldnt want to use = inside. I wonder just how hot the burner tips would get? And follw up, = ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C03843.A9CE2E80-- from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Oct 17 14:37:03 2000 e9HJb2G02125 ) Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case John,Wood thickness in my rod cases have gotten thinner over the years down to1/4" thickness and have leveled off at between 1/4" and 5/16" as best forme. I gave a demo at the Roscoe Gathering last month on case building. Ifyou want a copy of my handout, let me know off list and I'll email it to youin a day or two after I scan it. I have tried all types of NE US hardwoods.My favorites are quarter-sawn white or chestnut oak, flammed cherry (notcreated with a ring of fire but grown that way) and fiddleback maple. BTW,while it is generally believed that maple does not darken with ammoniumcarbonate, I have had some great results fuming maple cases for 3 to 5 daysat room temperature in a pvc tube with ammonium carbonate. Tom (hex cases don't roll around in your car) Whittle -----Original Message----- mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Subject: Re[2]: Rod case I really like the wood hex cases that some of the rodmakers create.Especially when heavily grained or burled (??) wood is used. Doesanyone have any suggestions on wood types to use or avoid on these?Also, to cut the side panels of the case, how thick do you cut thepiece?Jon McAnulty from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Oct 17 16:57:54 2000 e9HLvqG06783 Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:57:46 -0500 Subject: Re: What is the large tube made from ? I thought part of the idea, was to drivethe moisture from one end, and on out the other ? Could your rod be longer,and allow this ? GMA from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Oct 17 17:07:48 2000 e9HM7lG07229 Subject: Re: Rod case woods Has anyone tried to veneer on a PVC schedule 40 tube? Dennis Bertram -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod case woods At 09:38 AM 10/17/00 -0500, you wrote:I really like the wood hex cases that some of the rodmakers create.Especially when heavily grained or burled (??) wood is used. Doesanyone have any suggestions on wood types to use or avoid on these? I agree with Seth's comments pretty much, that burl/intensely figuredwoodis hard to find in the sizes needed, it can be fragile, and I too thinkit's a matter of personal taste what kind of look you want for a case orany functional piece of this size. If you want to pursue the burl idea, try veneer. Most of the choice burland heavy figured wood that hits the market, gets snatched up by veneercompanies, they can pay more because they add more value and command ahigher end price. Hence there's tons of gorgeous figured veneer available.Now the technology to apply veneer well takes some practice and a littleequipment, but we rodmakers will try anything, right? For the substrate(the lumber core that the veneer's glued to, and which structurally formsthe box) many straight-grained woods will do, my first choice would bemahogany, it's very stable and straight, and glues real well. Conventional practice for veneering on solid wood, calls for applyingveneer to both faces, to balance the moisture permeability of both sidesand prevent warp later on. Especially important if the piece is exposed tomoisture swings, like at streamside! On the other hand, as long as your hexglue up is real sound, I'd think you could get away with just veneering theoutside face. You'll want to apply some finish inside and out, which can bea trick; wipe on a varnish before applying the end caps? If you're using exotic woods, or even if you're using any hardwood at allthese days, you should be aware that we can use "certified",sustainably-harvested wood, that's taken from the land in such a way as toallow long-term conservation of the forest and the diversity of itsecosystem. Sure it costs a little more, but conservation of watershed iscritical to fine fishing anywhere, right? No commercial interest etc etc, and I don't sell lumber, but if you'reinterested I can refer you to suppliers. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Oct 17 17:12:41 2000 e9HMCeG07560 Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:12:31 -0500 , Subject: Re: Cutters for ferrule stations Good question, and I hadn't even tho't of that, as I seldom use a 4-jaw,since I have a Buck Adjust True 3-jaw. The only thing I can think of offhand, is to turn, and drill a holder from alum.. Then file 6 notches thatwould allow the butt to slide into it tightly. This would clamp tighter, ina 4-jaw's pressure. GMA from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Oct 17 17:19:40 2000 e9HMJcG07926 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Bluing brass I got 6m brass tube from a friend, and have made some slide band from it...I`m very proud to have manage it, first time on a lath:-)I have tried blueing it with both photofixer and "G96 GunBlue" with no luck.GunBlue gives a very loose black stuff that wipes of with water, fixer kindof dulls the brass.......I did of course clean the rings with alcohol before I tried the stuff. NS ferrules from Tony gets a nice color with fixer, and it takes the colorvery rapidly...... So what is my problem here? Is there different kinds of brass??? I sure would like to get the brass blued, cause` as I said, I have 6m of it,and I don't like the golden brass look............. BTW. the GunBlue contains: Selenous Acid, Nitric Acid and Copper Nitrate... TIA,danny-------Work from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Oct 17 17:48:17 2000 e9HMmGG08753 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Bluing brass Hi Danny, The stuff you need is called Birchwood Casey's Brass Black.Available at gun shops. Marty I got 6m brass tube from a friend, and have made some slide band fromit...I`m very proud to have manage it, first time on a lath:-)I have tried blueing it with both photofixer and "G96 GunBlue" with no luck.GunBlue gives a very loose black stuff that wipes of with water, fixer kindof dulls the brass.......I did of course clean the rings with alcohol before I tried the stuff. NS ferrules from Tony gets a nice color with fixer, and it takes the colorvery rapidly...... So what is my problem here? Is there different kinds of brass??? I sure would like to get the brass blued, cause` as I said, I have 6m of it,and I don't like the golden brass look............. BTW. the GunBlue contains: Selenous Acid, Nitric Acid and Copper Nitrate... TIA,danny------- Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work from anglport@con2.com Tue Oct 17 18:37:09 2000 e9HNb8G10082 Subject: Re: e9HNb8G10083 CarstenNice piece of work! I would like to mention to the guys who might trythisthat I read that you should NEVER use leather gloves for anything reallyhot (like welding for instance) because they hold the heat, and by the timeyou notice they're hot it's too late to get them off withotu a serious burn.I should emphasize that this is NOT first hand knowledge, but somethingIbelieve I read on a site about metal forges. It seemed to be something Ishould remember.Hope it's not an urban legend!Art At 07:31 PM 10/17/2000 +0200, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Listers Having realized I shall never have a "Ring of Fire" I haveto be contend with the second best, my "pipe of Fire" The picture belowis, I hope, selfexplanatory. Let me just add that having the torch blazing then take the culm, unsplit except for sticking a long rod through thedams inside, an move it fast forwards and backwards, at the same timerotating it along the longitudal axis. When one half of the 6 feet culmhas aquired the right color, I reverse and do the other half. The burneris blasting all of the time. Please wear stout leather gloves, as thisis HOT work. This is the nearest thing to the real deal. It works. regards, carsten Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Pipe ofFire.jpg" from bconner@mediaone.net Tue Oct 17 18:46:00 2000 e9HNjxG10323; and Collecting Subject: RE:HEXROD Rens, et al, Odd that I should re-subscribe today and see my name mentioned. It'sbeen quite a while! New house, new wife (my first) and other hobbieshave been keeping me from doing any rodbuilding or fishing for a fewyears now. Good to see that the rodbuilding list is still a goingconcern. Regarding my Visual Basic program RodMaker, I still have it, but it isin VB3, so it's very out of date. I tried to run it and it wanted allsorts of VBX's and stuff that I don't have on the new machine. Ifsomeone wants a copy to try to convert to VB6, I'll be happy to pass italong. Also, I may be moving my FAQ soon, so don't panic if it dissapears. Bruce Conner from bob@downandacross.com Tue Oct 17 18:56:00 2000 e9HNtxG10616 Subject: Re: Bluing brass I have recently been using the Payne formula from Dave LeClair on Tony Young's bronze slide band seats. They blue up nicely, so I imagine the brass would too?BobNo financial interest, just good stuff from two good guys. At 12:18 AM 10/19/00 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:I got 6m brass tube from a friend, and have made some slide band from it...I`m very proud to have manage it, first time on a lath:-)I have tried blueing it with both photofixer and "G96 GunBlue" with no luck.GunBlue gives a very loose black stuff that wipes of with water, fixer kindof dulls the brass.......I did of course clean the rings with alcohol before I tried the stuff. NS ferrules from Tony gets a nice color with fixer, and it takes the colorvery rapidly...... So what is my problem here? Is there different kinds of brass??? I sure would like to get the brass blued, cause` as I said, I have 6m of it,and I don't like the golden brass look............. BTW. the GunBlue contains: Selenous Acid, Nitric Acid and Copper Nitrate... TIA,danny-------Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054Private Work from bob@downandacross.com Tue Oct 17 19:04:48 2000 e9I04lG11004 Subject: Man O War Spar Hi guys,I have been experimenting with varnishes lately trying to get away from the overly glossy PU I use. I found a can of McCloskey's Man O War, which I know has received some plugs here before. I have been taking better time prepping the sections, but does this stuff ever look good right out of the can? It seems like it is very spotty, and will need to be wet sanded after the four dipped coats on the butt and mids. Is this because the first two coats have not filled in enough grain? This is an old SB I am redoing for a pal. Any advice? If I hate the results and sand the last coat back down, will one coat of PU over it be a bad idea?Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Oct 17 19:10:10 2000 e9I0A9G11263 Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:10:05 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Web developer wanted Friends,Since over 30 folks have emailed, and several more have called, it isapparent to me that lots of folks out there are interested in doing a littlekeyboard and mouse work in exchange for a bamboo fly rod!! That's great, atleast I know there is a demand for what I do. Over the next day or two I'll evaluate all the kind offers you have made.I wish I had enough rods on hand to go around, then I'd just give each of yousomething you would enjoy. What's really humbling is that several of youhaveoffered to help me out in any way possible, without any renumeration at all. I know this is going to sound like a sales pitch, and I don't mean it thatway, but I simply can't choose everyone who offered to help. If you offeredto help and really are in the market for a bamboo rod, let me know. I'll getone to you, or make one for you, at a big discount. Just to show myappreciation. Harry Yesterday I wrote: I wonder if any of you are interested in developing a website for mein exchange for a rod, or other flyfishing stuff? Let's keep this offthe lists, PLEASE. Contact me at or (318)435-4359days, and (318)435-2278 at home. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Oct 17 19:10:18 2000 e9I0AHG11279 Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:10:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod case woods Dennis,I've got several copies of the new REC catalog. They have wood veneeredtubes, on some sort of "composite" materail. My guess is the black pvc pipe.I haven't seen them, only read the descriptions and looked at the pictures. Harry Dennis Bertram wrote: Has anyone tried to veneer on a PVC schedule 40 tube? Dennis Bertram -----Original Message-----From: Rick Funcik Date: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:36 AMSubject: Re: Rod case woods At 09:38 AM 10/17/00 -0500, you wrote:I really like the wood hex cases that some of the rodmakers create.Especially when heavily grained or burled (??) wood is used. Doesanyone have any suggestions on wood types to use or avoid onthese? I agree with Seth's comments pretty much, that burl/intensely figuredwoodis hard to find in the sizes needed, it can be fragile, and I too thinkit's a matter of personal taste what kind of look you want for a case orany functional piece of this size. If you want to pursue the burl idea, try veneer. Most of the choice burland heavy figured wood that hits the market, gets snatched up by veneercompanies, they can pay more because they add more value and commandahigher end price. Hence there's tons of gorgeous figured veneer available.Now the technology to apply veneer well takes some practice and a littleequipment, but we rodmakers will try anything, right? For the substrate(the lumber core that the veneer's glued to, and which structurally formsthe box) many straight-grained woods will do, my first choice would bemahogany, it's very stable and straight, and glues real well. Conventional practice for veneering on solid wood, calls for applyingveneer to both faces, to balance the moisture permeability of both sidesand prevent warp later on. Especially important if the piece is exposed tomoisture swings, like at streamside! On the other hand, as long as yourhexglue up is real sound, I'd think you could get away with just veneering theoutside face. You'll want to apply some finish inside and out, which can bea trick; wipe on a varnish before applying the end caps? If you're using exotic woods, or even if you're using any hardwood at allthese days, you should be aware that we can use "certified",sustainably-harvested wood, that's taken from the land in such a way astoallow long-term conservation of the forest and the diversity of itsecosystem. Sure it costs a little more, but conservation of watershed iscritical to fine fishing anywhere, right? No commercial interest etc etc, and I don't sell lumber, but if you'reinterested I can refer you to suppliers. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Oct 17 19:25:35 2000 e9I0PXG11942 Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:25:31 -0700 Subject: Re: HEXROD Bruce,Welcome back to the list. Some of the same names are around, but we'vemissed you. It's been quite a while, hasn't it? I know there are lots ofus who would like to play with your program a little bit... Harry Boyd Bruce Conner wrote: Regarding my Visual Basic program RodMaker, I still have it, but it isin VB3, so it's very out of date. I tried to run it and it wanted allsorts of VBX's and stuff that I don't have on the new machine. Ifsomeone wants a copy to try to convert to VB6, I'll be happy to pass italong. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Oct 17 19:40:05 2000 e9I0e4G12415 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Bluing brass Try Birchwood Casey's brass black (tm). It's designed to be used on brassobviously, but works well on nickel silver too (make sure that the metal iscompletely clean and free of any oils, and I would recommend soaking ratherthan brushing it on to get the most even finnish possible. I don't know how durable it is but I will say this; I used the brass blackon nickel silver slide bands and ferrules on a rod two years ago. Ivarnished the slide bands with a brush, and the ferrules at the time ofdipping. I fished this rod at least 35 days a year for the past two years,and it still looks great. It might work for you too. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 3:19 PM Subject: Bluing brass I got 6m brass tube from a friend, and have made some slide band from it...I`m very proud to have manage it, first time on a lath:-)I have tried blueing it with both photofixer and "G96 GunBlue" withno luck.GunBlue gives a very loose black stuff that wipes of with water,fixer kindof dulls the brass.......I did of course clean the rings with alcohol before I tried thestuff. NS ferrules from Tony gets a nice color with fixer, and it takes thecolorvery rapidly...... So what is my problem here? Is there different kinds of brass??? I sure would like to get the brass blued, cause` as I said, I have6m of it,and I don't like the golden brass look............. BTW. the GunBlue contains: Selenous Acid, Nitric Acid and CopperNitrate... TIA,danny-------Work from cattanac@wmis.net Tue Oct 17 20:11:53 2000 e9I1BmG13404 Subject: Re: Hexrod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C037B5.DC6FDA20 Just as an information piece - there is a newer version of Hexrod - a =visual basic program much like Bruce's - I hope we all admit to looking =at what others are doing when we do such things - And there are still =flaws and bug in mine as well - I somehow felt bored and changed jobs =the end of June and it seems to own me at this time - so little if any =programming has been done in a long time - and I need a vacation - one =to the south where the days are warm and there are fish to be caught and =stories to listen to - Geee - and there my even be the other 9/10 along = Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:48 PMSubject: Hexrod Dear listmembers, Could any of you please show me where to get the Hexrod programme. I'm =not looking for Wayne's version but for , I think, Bruce Conners. It was =this neat little programme which did all the work for you. By simply =adding the details of a specific rod it would produce a graph of the =results'. Changing tapers was a piece of cake. All in all it made me do =what I never achieved with Wayne's Hexrod: understand it. It was a =desktop version that worked well with windows. Several computer crashes =have left me Hexrodless and seriously handicapped. T.i.a. Rens Oosthoek ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C037B5.DC6FDA20 Just as an information piece - there is= version of Hexrod - a visual basic program much like Bruce's - I hope we = there are still flaws and bug in mine as well - I somehow felt bored and = jobs the end of June and it seems to own me at this time - so little if = programming has been done in a long time - and I need a vacation - one = south where the days are warm and there are fish to be caught and = listen to - Geee - and there my even be the other 9/10 along for the = tour ----- Original Message ----- Oosthoek Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000= PMSubject: Hexrod Dear listmembers, Could any of you please show mewhere = Hexrod programme. I'm not looking for Wayne's version but for , I = Conners. It was this neat little programme which did all the work for = simply adding the details of a specific rod it would produce a graph = results'. Changing tapers was a piece of cake. All in all it made me = never achieved with Wayne's Hexrod: understand it. It was a desktop = Hexrodless and seriously handicapped. T.i.a. Oosthoek ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C037B5.DC6FDA20-- from tjwilhelm@carolina.rr.com Tue Oct 17 20:27:35 2000 e9I1RYG13767 Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:27:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rod case I made a tube recently using the directions that Wayne has in the latestedition of his book. The slats are 1 1/4" wide by 1/4" thick. I used wormy maple. The worm holes gave the maple a spalted look and Iglued them up so they have a match book appearance. If you are dead set on using burl, make the caps out of a piece of burl ofthe same wood. One caution on the caps. One of my slats is slightly less than 1 1/4" so Idon't have a true hexagon. You'll probably need to hand fit the caps to thetube. BTW, took the tube into the local fly shop to show off and one of the youngkids that work there asked how much it cost to make. So I told him,$1,200. His eyes popped out of his head, "$1,200?" he responded. I saidyeah, I had to buy a table saw, a router, a sander and $12 worth of wood. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re[2]: Rod case I really like the wood hex cases that some of the rodmakers create.Especially when heavily grained or burled (??) wood is used. Doesanyone have any suggestions on wood types to use or avoid on these?Also, to cut the side panels of the case, how thick do you cut thepiece? In my mind I can see a too thin panel break along a burl lineor grain if it is the wrong type of wood. I don't really have anyexperience with these more exotic types of wood in such anapplication. Any suggestions would be mucho appreciado!Cheers.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Rod caseAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 10/17/00 10:41 AM I saw some very very nice rod cases while at Greyling last year made byJimBureau. The work was perfect and the timber he uses is outstanding. Jim isatrue craftsman and not just with cases, he rods are excellent.Sorry but I don't know how he deals with these, I just saw several. Tony At 05:26 PM 10/16/00 -0500, David Norling wrote: Just got a cordura double rod case with separate dividers for bamboofromBarcole in Libby Montana. Small cottage industry great workmanship verygoodprice. catalog from them atbardoleusa@lclink.com No commercialinterestetc. etc.Dave /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Oct 17 20:44:59 2000 e9I1iwG14323 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:25:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar e9I1ixG14324 Hi Bob, I know that the satin finish spar must be stirred /mixed well between uses oryou will get variation in gloss. I have used Man-O-War gloss in the past and never cared for the very slow curing time. I thinned it to the maximum 12%suggested by the manufacturer, but still felt it went on too thick and stayedsoft too long. I think for dipping it needs thinned more then that. I honestly can't imagine four dipped coats not filling the surface with thisstuff. Like I said, one reason I moved away from it was the slow curing timeand high viscosity. Just my opinion. If you are using the satin finish then insufficient mixing might be what you'rerunning into. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu bob maulucci 10/17/00 05:03PM >>>Hi guys,I have been experimenting with varnishes lately trying to get away from the overly glossy PU I use. I found a can of McCloskey's Man O War, which I know has received some plugs here before. I have been taking better time prepping the sections, but does this stuff ever look good right out of the can? It seems like it is very spotty, and will need to be wet sanded after the four dipped coats on the butt and mids. Is this because the first two coats have not filled in enough grain? This is an old SB I am redoing for a pal. Any advice? If I hate the results and sand the last coat back down, will one coat of PU over it be a bad idea?Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Oct 17 21:45:37 2000 e9I2jaG15378 ;Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:45:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Art, It's NOT urban legend! I have used leather gloves on hot stuff(campfires, etc.) and it conducts heat VERY well! Get an old hot mitt from SWMBO (with her approval, of course!). You'll (both) be muchhappier! Dennis Art Port wrote: CarstenNice piece of work! I would like to mention to the guys who might trythisthat I read that you should NEVER use leather gloves for anything reallyhot (like welding for instance) because they hold the heat, and by the timeyou notice they're hot it's too late to get them off withotu a serious burn.I should emphasize that this is NOT first hand knowledge, butsomething Ibelieve I read on a site about metal forges. It seemed to be something Ishould remember.Hope it's not an urban legend!Art At 07:31 PM 10/17/2000 +0200, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Listers Having realized I shall never have a "Ring of Fire" I haveto be contend with the second best, my "pipe of Fire" The picture belowis, I hope, selfexplanatory. Let me just add that having the torch blazing then take the culm, unsplit except for sticking a long rod through thedams inside, an move it fast forwards and backwards, at the same timerotating it along the longitudal axis. When one half of the 6 feet culmhas aquired the right color, I reverse and do the other half. The burneris blasting all of the time. Please wear stout leather gloves, as thisis HOT work. This is the nearest thing to the real deal. It works.regards, carsten Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Pipe ofFire.jpg" from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Oct 17 22:28:46 2000 e9I3SjG16209 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar In a message dated 10/17/2000 5:05:22 PM PDT, bob@downandacross.comwrites: I have used man o war for years and have looked for the substitutessuggested by, I think, Chris Mc Dowel, but couldn't find them locally. McKloskey's changed their formulation to meet EPA clean air standards and the new formulation did horrible things to a rod I had dipped. I found two old quarts sitting on the back shelf of a small hardware store. Used them and had the same desired results. The new cans have kind of a checkered design on the label. the old cans have a red label. If you want man o war buy the red label can.IMHO of course, but Mr. Mc Dowell had some alternative suggestions that I would have tried had I been able to find them.Mike from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 17 22:36:27 2000 e9I3aPG16490 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:33:24 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) dnorl@uswest.net, avyoung@iinet.net.au Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case Jon,I have some thin sheoak planks that are earmarked for a hex casewhen I get time but I have to make some silk flylines first. One thing at atime and all that. Sheoak is really nice to work with and the grain is IMHOone of the most aesthetically pleasing on the planet, especially with a coatof varnish to accentuate it. Mike Does anyone have any suggestions on wood types to use or avoid on these? from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Oct 17 22:41:18 2000 e9I3fHG16717 Subject: Re: Re.: Ring of Fire In a message dated 10/17/2000 5:30:20 AM PDT, avyoung@iinet.net.auwrites: Tony,This is one of those indisputable truths. #3 after losing #'s 1 & 2 to these things, is planing her own and is now telling me how to properly fish spinners. But some nights I still sleep on the bench.MikeMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 17 22:43:10 2000 e9I3h8G16869 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:40:51 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Splicing Block Jim,Like Bob, I shimmed for a while. Of course, I went much moreupmarket than masking tape and cut some cardboard strips from a cornflakespacket : ) Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Splicing Block Jim,I now have two splicing blocks, but before I built the one for esp thintips, I used to use masking tape as a shim. Ugly but it's cheap and itworks. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Splicing Block Need some suggestions on how to seat bamboo into a splicing block. I have a splicing block which meets the Charmichael dimensions of 5/32 forthe notch that I purchased. My tip pieces are less than 5/32 thick. How arethe nodeless builders getting a tight fit ? I can see placing a shim inbefore tightening the block as one way or I can sand down the block halfthat has the notch. The original culm was a 1 1/2 could that be one of thereasons for the wall thickness and would it be thicker in a 2 inch orgreater. Think I will shim for now to keep the process going.Thanks,Jim Tefft from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 22:55:18 2000 e9I3tHG17315 20:55:16 PDT Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case mike, how do you make silk flylines? i'm reallyintrested! timothy --- "Roberts, Michael"wrote:Jon,I get time but I have to make some silkflylines first. One thing at a ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Oct 17 22:56:29 2000 e9I3uSG17452 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 Subject: Re: "Pipe of Fire" picture attached that's scary, I want one.Mike from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 22:59:01 2000 e9I3x0G17653 20:59:00 PDT Subject: Re: Re.: Ring of Fire sleeping on the bench helps us keep our prioritiesstraight and our goals in eye. timothy Tony,This is one of those indisputable truths. #3 afterlosing #'s 1 & 2 to these things, is planing her own and is now telling me howto properly fish spinners. But some nights I still sleep on thebench.MikeMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 17 23:32:41 2000 e9I4WdG18756 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:30:02 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "Roberts, Michael","rod 'akers" Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case Hi Timothy,thanks to the generosity of a certain list member, whowishes to remain anonymous for the time being, I have aquired some plansfora braiding machine. I hope to have this completed early in the new year andwill then attempt to make some lines. Be warned, this is no weekendproject. If you feel like you're becoming interested, seek professionalhelp now, before it's too late :) Me and my big mouthMike -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case mike, how do you make silk flylines? i'm reallyintrested! timothy --- "Roberts, Michael"wrote:Jon,I get time but I have to make some silkflylines first. One thing at a ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from drinkr@voicenet.com Tue Oct 17 23:37:09 2000 e9I4b9G18953 (207.103.136.90) Subject: Collet Threads Does anyone have a TPI dimension for 3C or 5C collets. Im playing aroundwith a fixture to carry these sizes for ferrule making and my threadinggauges only go down to 28 TPI. Thanks in advance Dave Rinker from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 17 23:40:07 2000 e9I4e3G19142; Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:37:27 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Bamboo.Flyrod.Making@wugate.wustl.edu, Restoring@wugate.wustl.edu,and Collecting Subject: RE: HEXROD Welcome back Bruce, No fishing for a few years! It's worse than I thought. It's greatto see you on board again.Your page was the first thing I found on the internet to do withbamboo rods and Tony Young was the first actual maker I made contact with.Between the two of you, you have a lot to answer for :) Mike -----Original Message----- and CollectingSubject: RE:HEXROD Rens, et al, Odd that I should re-subscribe today and see my name mentioned. It'sbeen quite a while! New house, new wife (my first) and other hobbieshave been keeping me from doing any rodbuilding or fishing for a fewyears now. Good to see that the rodbuilding list is still a goingconcern. Regarding my Visual Basic program RodMaker, I still have it, but it isin VB3, so it's very out of date. I tried to run it and it wanted allsorts of VBX's and stuff that I don't have on the new machine. Ifsomeone wants a copy to try to convert to VB6, I'll be happy to pass italong. Also, I may be moving my FAQ soon, so don't panic if it dissapears. Bruce Conner from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 18 00:00:03 2000 e9I502G19816 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:12:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar e9I503G19817 Hi Mike, If it was me suggesting other spar varnishes, then it would have been Behrsold through Home Depot or Carver-Tripp sold through Fred Meyer's. Ihaven't bought either for at least two years, so don't know if they still carrythese brands. I remember that I liked Carver-Tripp best. Now I'll probablyfind that it's all made in the same factory and trade labeled. Varathane is now carrying a new label as well. They call it Diamond Wood orsomething like that. Salesman said it's the same stuff, with a new label, but Ihave my doubts. Unfortunately Flecto doesn't really go into any detail on thelabel, so it's difficult to compare. The red can Man-O-War is also the stuff I've used. It's fine, but I justpreferred a thinner, harder finish. A fresh can, thinned adequately and givenplenty of time between coats to cure is probably the answer for multi dippedcoats. The green can is the "satin" finish I believe and it is the one I recallrunning into the gloss variation. It was a result of my not mixing itthoroughly before each use. Told me on the label, but I usually readdirections after my first attempts fail. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu 10/17 8:32p >>>In a message dated 10/17/2000 5:05:22 PM PDT, bob@downandacross.comwrites: I have used man o war for years and have looked for the substitutessuggested by, I think, Chris Mc Dowel, but couldn't find them locally. McKloskey's changed their formulation to meet EPA clean air standards and the new formulation did horrible things to a rod I had dipped. I found two old quarts sitting on the back shelf of a small hardware store. Used them and had the same desired results. The new cans have kind of a checkered design on the label. the old cans have a red label. If you want man o war buy the red label can.IMHO of course, but Mr. Mc Dowell had some alternative suggestions that I would have tried had I been able to find them.Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 18 00:17:56 2000 e9I5HrG20362 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:17:48 +0800 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:20:14 +0800 Subject: Re: Re.: Ring of Fire rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Buy flowers and chocs if you like but my SWMO is getting a milling machinethis Christmas :-)Must admit I do spend my fair share...maybe more than my fair share of timesleeping on the bench. Tony At 11:41 PM 10/17/00 -0400, Troutgetter@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 10/17/2000 5:30:20 AM PDT, avyoung@iinet.net.auwrites: things :-) Tony >>Tony,This is one of those indisputable truths. #3 after losing #'s 1 & 2 to these things, is planing her own and is now telling me how to properly fish spinners. But some nights I still sleep on the bench.MikeMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 18 00:25:28 2000 e9I5PQG20676 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:25:23 +0800 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:27:44 +0800 Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case dnorl@uswest.net, avyoung@iinet.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Agree 100%. It's hard to think of a nicer cabinet/baubles & trinkets timberto look at and it does work and turn nicely too. I use it when ever itsuits as a first choice.If you can get some to try I'd recomend it. As with almost all tree types here in Aust there are a lot of varietys ofthe one species. Eucalypts must be in the hundreds and the same goes withShe Oaks (Casuarinas) . If you can be fussy get the Western Australia SheOak (Casuarina fraserana Miq). It has the best texture. Tony At 11:30 AM 10/18/00 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Jon,I have some thin sheoak planks that are earmarked for a hex casewhen I get time but I have to make some silk flylines first. One thing at atime and all that. Sheoak is really nice to work with and the grain is IMHOone of the most aesthetically pleasing on the planet, especially with a coatof varnish to accentuate it. Mike Does anyone have any suggestions on wood types to use or avoid on these? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Oct 18 05:39:37 2000 e9IAdaG24306 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: All, Actually, really hot work requires "treated cotton" gloves. Used to beasbestos but now is something that resembles flexible fiberglass; they areexpensive. Welders use extra thick leather gloves with long cuffs, and thefingers can get stiff as a board when super heated. I substitute linedwinter leather gloves for my hot work at home. If you've ever ruined agraphite blank tip section (yea gods, not that stuff and how in the hell doyou know about this) when burning silk wispies off, you begin to reallyappreciate the hands-on, feel-it-as-you-go method - cane included. Damnblanks are expensive! Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: CarstenNice piece of work! I would like to mention to the guys who might try thisthat I read that you should NEVER use leather gloves for anything reallyhot (like welding for instance) because they hold the heat, and by thetimeyou notice they're hot it's too late to get them off withotu a seriousburn.I should emphasize that this is NOT first hand knowledge, but something Ibelieve I read on a site about metal forges. It seemed to be something Ishould remember.Hope it's not an urban legend!Art At 07:31 PM 10/17/2000 +0200, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Listers Having realized I shall never have a "Ring of Fire" I haveto be contend with the second best, my "pipe of Fire" The picturebelowis, I hope, selfexplanatory. Let me just add that having the torchblazing then take the culm, unsplit except for sticking a long rod through thedams inside, an move it fast forwards and backwards, at the same timerotating it along the longitudal axis. When one half of the 6 feet culmhas aquired the right color, I reverse and do the other half. The burneris blasting all of the time. Please wear stout leather gloves, as thisis HOT work. This is the nearest thing to the real deal. It works.regards, carsten Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Pipe ofFire.jpg" from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Oct 18 06:16:27 2000 e9IBGPG24756 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:16:15 GMT Subject: Re: Re.: Ring of Fire Organization: vet Harry, and others, Just an idea here. If you want a "Ring of Fire", and the costly bit is getting a welder to dothe "ring" - then why bother with a metal ring at all? Why not just clamp as many burners as your little heart desires in a metalframe, much like the sort of thing that Carsten uses to hold his burner,only multiple, and hook 'em all up with flexible gas pipe, just like thesort I use on my propane burner? You'd probably need to have a gas fitter work out the flow rates anddiameters and stuff like that; and it would probably lack the cachet of thePHY original, but it ought to be cheap enough, and with a bit of extrathought you could arrange things so you could use any combination ofburnersyou chose for a given job. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Re.: Ring of Fire Friends,Finally a topic I'm an expert on -- explosions! (Just kidding) Okay,one of myDeacons owns a propane company. My cousin owns another propanecompany.I'll showthem some pictures and see what I can come up with. If it works, isanyone willing tohelp finance this project, or at least help clean up the mess? screen whilelaughing out loud. Harry Carsten Jorgensen wrote: As for having a pro to build the device, it was ruled out of tworeasons.The idea was presented to SWMBO who did not think it necessaryin order to maintain and secure the current level of common wellbeing inthis little family. Diplomaticaaly You could say she did not fancy the out of financial and safety reasons. Nice to know she cares............... This might be Harry's departmentthough, as I fear he is better connected in this area than Yours Truly.This is ofcourse pure speculation. from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 18 07:29:19 2000 e9ICTIG25648 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:23:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar I think it was Harry Boyd, who had the same problem, that you have, about 3months ago, with this varnish. I believe he found they had changed its makeup, and it now contains some P-U. The same thing has happened to our oldreliable Valspar, and it now dries in a day or so, and it's dust free in anhour ! I since have found an old, true outdoor spar varnish in Epifanes. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 18 07:50:08 2000 e9ICo7G26051 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:50:04 -0500 , Subject: Re: Man O War Spar I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western Marine Supply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Oct 18 08:28:08 2000 e9IDS8G27509 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:27:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar George,I had a similar trouble, but it was with a new polyurethane formula ratherthan ManOWar. I've since settled on Valspar. Harry nobler wrote: I think it was Harry Boyd, who had the same problem, that you have, about3months ago, with this varnish. I believe he found they had changed its makeup, and it now contains some P-U. The same thing has happened to our oldreliable Valspar, and it now dries in a day or so, and it's dust free in anhour ! I since have found an old, true outdoor spar varnish in Epifanes. from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Oct 18 08:49:52 2000 e9IDnpG28308 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar It's my understanding, from talking to a few paint people, that themarinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not been subjected to the sameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been using Pratt &Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses, costs an arm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. The mothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried their varnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western Marine Supply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Oct 18 10:07:07 2000 e9IF76G01714 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Man O War Spar marty wrote: I have used Pratt & Lambert #61 spar for years with great satisfaction.My only complaint is the dried plug that forms in the top of the diptube after just a couple days. I have tried to remedy this problem withlittle luck. I never have this problem with PU. So, I use #61 spar onrestorations and PU on my own rods. I purchase the #61 in PA. as Iunderstand the stuff sold in NJ. is different (VOTE REPUBLICAN) Marty It's my understanding, from talking to a few paint people, that themarinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not been subjected to thesameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been using Pratt &Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses, costs anarm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. The mothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried their varnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western Marine Supply,andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Oct 18 11:22:51 2000 e9IGMoG04341 "'mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu'",dnorl@uswest.net, avyoung@iinet.net.au Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case What is she oak? -----Original Message-----From: Roberts, Michael Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:31 PM avyoung@iinet.net.auCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case Jon,I have some thin sheoak planks that are earmarked when I get time but I have to make some silk flylines first.One thing at atime and all that. Sheoak is really nice to work with andthe grain is IMHOone of the most aesthetically pleasing on the planet,especially with a coatof varnish to accentuate it. Mike Does anyone have any suggestions on wood types to use oravoid on these? from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 18 11:28:38 2000 e9IGSbG04651 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:40:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar e9IGSbG04652 I would be curious too about what Sherwin-Williams offers now. I used theirproducts for years as a painter and always preferred them. However lasttime I was at a Sherwin-Williams store, about a year or more ago, I wassurprised how few thinner based products they carried. I couldn't find anylacquer either. It appeared they were moving to latex enamels andvarnishes. Of course that was on the retail shelves. There is always betterproducts in the warehouse that are not available to the general public. Chris Heidt 10/18/00 07:05AM >>> It's my understanding, from talking to a few paint people, that themarinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not been subjected to the sameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been using Pratt &Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses, costs an arm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. The mothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried their varnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western Marine Supply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Oct 18 11:33:20 2000 e9IGXJG04947 Subject: Spar Varnish Is there anyone on this List with experience, other than me, in the use ofBehlen's W. W. Restoration Varnish on bamboo? How does it compare withRedLabel M-O-W, P-L #61, etc.? Since Behlen's is the only "long oil" Spar I've ever used for bamboo rods, Ihave no clue as to how it compares with other "Spars". I don't use PU inrestoration of the oldies. I use a drip tube and thin it w/ 25% mineralspirits. I've been pleased with the results, but then I thought the A- H3000 was perky until I got behind the wheel of a 427 Cobra. Allthoughts/advice appreciated. Regards to all.Ed from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 18 11:40:19 2000 e9IGeGG05310 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:40:13 +0800 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:40:08 +0800 Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case "'mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu'" ,dnorl@uswest.net, avyoung@iinet.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu It's a medium density wood with a light orange/brown colour. What makes itinteresting is the gum lenses hense it's common name sheOAK even thoug itisn't an oak in reality.There are a lot of woods of this type here but the West Aust variety justhas a nice look, the lenses aren't too big or frequent, just enough to givesome interest to what would be a nice timber without the lenses. It's alsoreasonably dimensionaly stable.It's a personal thing of course but about the only cabinet type wood I likethe look of better is very nice spalted Maple.Every reel seat I make for my own use has a She Oak spacer. If you click on this link you'll see an average sort of pic of a reel seatspacer. It's good enough to see the pattern & colour. Be warned though it's from my web page and it is comercial at that point though this link is onlya pic, not detail. You wont be hijacked. http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/she.jpg Tony At 11:22 AM 10/18/00 -0500, Kling, Barry W. wrote: What is she oak? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from johnsabina@home.com Wed Oct 18 15:45:14 2000 e9IKjEG14220 0700 Subject: Internet Abbreviations This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C03922.0D03D480 Gentlemen: While I consider myself a somewhat adebt computer and Internet user, I =am unable to figure out what SWMBO stands for. As used in context, it =clearly refers to one's wife, but I cannot get any closer than that. =Can anyone help? JJS ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C03922.0D03D480 Gentlemen: While I consider myself asomewhat = computer and Internet user, I am unable to figure out what SWMBO JJS ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C03922.0D03D480-- from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Oct 18 15:47:48 2000 e9IKllG14394 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Yes it is expensive. I believe it is $23 a qt. but it produces the bestfinish I have seen from spar. I store it in the tube and have to filterand clean the tube out with laquer thinner a couple times a year or elsethe finish suffers. If I did not do restorations of older rods I wouldstick with P&L Varmour PU. I too tried floating mineral spirits andusing Bloxegen with limited success. Marty Marty,That's been my bigest bitch with P&L. The last gallon I boughtskimmedover so badly I called P&L tech. support. I mean I do it all, floatmineral spirits on top, spray in Bloxigen and seal it tight. I stillhave to hassle with filtering the stuff before I use it. (I don't store itin my dip tube unless I'm doing more than one rod and as I'm a hobbiestthat's rare) They didn't know what to tell me but they did refund mymoney. Hard to complain about a company that goes the extra mile. But,Dam# it's expensive!!Marty At 11:05 AM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:marty wrote: I have used Pratt & Lambert #61 spar for years with greatsatisfaction.My only complaint is the dried plug that forms in the top of the diptube after just a couple days. I have tried to remedy this problem withlittle luck. I never have this problem with PU. So, I use #61 spar onrestorations and PU on my own rods. I purchase the #61 in PA. as Iunderstand the stuff sold in NJ. is different (VOTE REPUBLICAN) Marty It's my understanding, from talking to a few paint people,that the marinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not been subjected tothesameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been using Pratt &Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses, costs anarm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. The mothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried their varnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western MarineSupply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 15:48:13 2000 e9IKmCG14419 13:48:12 PDT Subject: Re: Man O War Spar all, you know we all may need to be looking around traditional spar is going by the wayside more soonerthat later and it will have been helpful if we have some knowledge of our alternatives. just a thought. timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:George,I had a similar trouble, but it was with a newpolyurethane formula ratherthan ManOWar. I've since settled on Valspar. Harry nobler wrote: I think it was Harry Boyd, who had the sameproblem, that you have, about 3months ago, with this varnish. I believe he foundthey had changed its makeup, and it now contains some P-U. The same thinghas happened to our oldreliable Valspar, and it now dries in a day or so,and it's dust free in anhour ! I since have found an old, true outdoor sparvarnish in Epifanes. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 18 16:09:58 2000 e9IL9vG15786 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Valspar was our old standard over here, for many years. I got a qt. thisSpring, and it's a blend with P-U, and dries very quickly. I can coat wraps,and sand 24 hours later, if I hang them in our 100 deg. + summer air ! Theyare dust free the next morning, after a coat the night before ! The old varnish never dried that fast. Do you find this true with what youhave ? I was mistaken, I guess, as I tho't it was Man-O-War you had the troublewith. GMA from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Oct 18 16:14:19 2000 e9ILEHG16108 "Rodmakers Mail" Subject: Re: Internet Abbreviations This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01C03927.8CF1D2A0 She Who Must Be Obeyed. Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 4:39 PMSubject: Internet Abbreviations Gentlemen: While I consider myself a somewhat adebt computer and Internet user, I =am unable to figure out what SWMBO stands for. As used in context, it =clearly refers to one's wife, but I cannot get any closer than that. =Can anyone help? JJS ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01C03927.8CF1D2A0 She Who Must BeObeyed. ----- Original Message ----- Sabina Sent: Wednesday, October 18, = PMSubject: Internet =Abbreviations Gentlemen: While I consider myself asomewhat = computer and Internet user, I am unable to figure out what SWMBO = JJS ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01C03927.8CF1D2A0-- from cotner@novagate.com Wed Oct 18 16:17:14 2000 e9ILHDG16321 Subject: Re: Internet Abbreviations John - from Rumpole of the Bailey, by John Mortimer, his bride is oftenreferred to as She Who Must Be Obeyed.Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan John J Sabina wrote: Gentlemen: While I consider myself a somewhat adebt computer and Internet user, Iam unable to figure out what SWMBO stands for. As used in context, itclearly refers to one's wife, but I cannot get any closer than that.Can anyone help? JJS from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 16:34:51 2000 e9ILYoG17346 14:34:47 PDT Subject: Re: Internet Abbreviations i believe the first reference is from a h. riderhaggard novel, SHE. tmothy --- Roger Cotner wrote:John - from Rumpole of the Bailey, by John Mortimer, hisbride is oftenreferred to as She Who Must Be Obeyed.Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan John J Sabina wrote: Gentlemen: While I consider myself a somewhat adebt computerand Internet user, Iam unable to figure out what SWMBO stands for. Asused in context, itclearly refers to one's wife, but I cannot get anycloser than that.Can anyone help? JJS ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 18 16:35:44 2000 e9ILZhG17484 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:35:41 -0500 "Rodmakers Mail" Subject: Re: Internet Abbreviations She Who Must Be Obeyed ! Gotcha ya' ! GMA from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Oct 18 16:59:46 2000 e9ILxjG18696 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Laping ferrules This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3054844729_428861_MIME_Part I`ve used all evening seating one male ferrule!!! Is this normale or am I doing something wrong here?I used 400-800 and 1200 grit paper, folded around the male slideand rotated the rod. As I understand perfect fit can't be done in a lath, prior mountingto the rod, because the glue will slightly expand...Also its and old tradition that the rodmaker does the job..... But if the glue expand, it won't be any problem having the ferruleseated before mounting?? Its seems to me to be double up, first the malebeeing oversize,second the glue expands.....comments?? Lastly I think its difficult to get the hole slide area 100% even doingthe job by hand with wet/dry paper. Is there an easier way? I don`t have alath, so its going to be done by hand eather way..... BTW. I've seen the ferrule files from GW, but can't see it will make iteasier.....? TIAdanny -------Work --MS_Mac_OE_3054844729_428861_MIME_Part Laping ferrules I`ve used all evening seating one male ferrule!!! Is this normale or am I doing something wrong here?I used 400-800 and 1200 grit paper, folded around the male slideand rotated the rod. As I understand perfect fit can't be done in a lath, prior mountingto the rod, because the glue will slightly expand...Also its and old tradition that the rodmaker does the job..... But if the glue expand, it won't be any problem having the ferruleseated before mounting?? Its seems to me to be double up, first themalebeeing oversize,second the glue expands.....comments?? Lastly I think its difficult to get the hole slide area 100% even doingthe job by hand with wet/dry paper. Is there an easier way? I don`t have alath, so its going to be done by hand eather way..... BTW. I've seen the ferrule files from GW, but can't see it will make it eas=ier.....? TIAdanny Danny Twang+47 35 55 80 24GSM 908 94 054 --MS_Mac_OE_3054844729_428861_MIME_Part-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 18 17:10:18 2000 e9IMAHG19143 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:10:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Laping ferrules Danny, the real way to fit ferrules, is with laps, unless you have a goodhone, and these aren't cheap ! Use a lathe to just get the fit close, andthan use male and female laps, with very fine grit abrasives. I have photosof the these laps, if you'd like to see them, I'll send an attachment toyou. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Oct 18 17:19:58 2000 e9IMJvG19519 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:19:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Collet Threads David the 5-C collets have 20 TPI, and you can measure the dia. easily. Idon't use 3-C. GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Oct 18 17:25:33 2000 e9IMPWG19831 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Laping ferrules I'm glad Danny raised the question and I'd love to see the photos.....Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Laping ferrules Danny, the real way to fit ferrules, is with laps, unless you have a goodhone,and these aren't cheap ! Use a lathe to just get the fit close, andthan use male and female laps, with very fine grit abrasives. I have photosof the these laps, if you'd like to see them, I'll send an attachment toyou. GMA from marcdupuis@home.com Wed Oct 18 18:26:33 2000 e9INQWG21631 0700 Organization: @Home Network Member Subject: Re: Laping ferrules I too would like to see what you're using for lapping. Seems though thatthere are dangers inherent in sending attachments to the list. Marc Dupuis "Kling, Barry W." wrote: I'm glad Danny raised the question and I'd love to see the photos.....Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Laping ferrules Danny, the real way to fit ferrules, is with laps, unless you have a goodhone, and these aren't cheap ! Use a lathe to just get the fit close, andthan use male and female laps, with very fine grit abrasives. I have photosof the these laps, if you'd like to see them, I'll send an attachment toyou. GMA from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 18 18:36:04 2000 e9INa3G21944 Subject: Re: Internet Abbreviations RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Rumpole of the Old Bailey (I believe) was just quoting Shakespeare (author - not fishing company), as in Queen Elizebeth - SWMBO. dgb In a message dated 10/18/00 2:35:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Wed Oct 18 18:40:26 2000 e9INePG22159 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Laping ferrules Please send the photos of the laps as an attachment so that we all may see.Thanks. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Laping ferrules Danny, the real way to fit ferrules, is with laps, unless you have agoodhone, and these aren't cheap ! Use a lathe to just get the fitclose, andthan use male and female laps, with very fine grit abrasives. I havephotosof the these laps, if you'd like to see them, I'll send anattachment toyou. GMA from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Oct 18 18:52:46 2000 e9INqjG22696 , Subject: Re: Internet Abbreviations dgb noted: Rumpole of the ... Bailey ... was just quoting Shakespeare (author - not fishing company), as in Queen Elizebeth - SWMBO. FWIW, I believe this usage came to the Net via the Old Tools mailing list.Seems that the most popular style of woodworking plane, and a subject ofcentral importance to the "Galoots" (OT list subscribers), is the Bailey! Owen Davies from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Wed Oct 18 20:21:57 2000 e9J1LuG24557 e9J1Lop148684 Subject: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C03930.BAFE1100 I was just about to glue glue up the grip on an F.E. Thomas 6' 8" 3 wt. =and I ran into a problem I used the taper from Howell's book, but =recalled seeing that the original had a short grip. I found the same =taper in Maurer's book with the notation that the grip is 4 3/4", but =the stations seem to be shifted on Maurer's taper. Shifting the taper = difference. Can someone please tell me which taper is right? Both are =ostensibly measured from a blank without varnish. The tapers in =question are: Howell ( from Daryll Whitehead):butt tip0 .325 .2025 .310 .1868 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .07435 .170 .050 and Maurer: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 I'm inclined to trust Howell's taper because of the discontinuity at the =ferrule in Maurer's taper, and the annotation about the swelled butt. =However, I may be less than objective since I've already glued up a = TIA, -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C03930.BAFE1100 I was just about to glue glue up the= The tapers in question are: Howell ( from Daryll =Whitehead): .186 swell .140 .128 .118 .109 .074 .050 and Maurer: discontinuity at the ferrule in Maurer's taper, and the annotation about = glued up a couple of blanks. TIA, -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C03930.BAFE1100-- from bjust@bellsouth.net Wed Oct 18 21:20:01 2000 e9J2K0G25942 Subject: Re:Rod case Check out the cases and the line of rods made from Japanese cane at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/ Brian from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu Oct 19 02:15:51 2000 e9J7FoG01221 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:30:01 +0200 Subject: Re: Laping ferrules Hi nobler, please be so kind and send me the photos of the laps you mentionedofflist. Thanks Ralf from Germany nobler schrieb: Danny, the real way to fit ferrules, is with laps, unless you have a goodhone, and these aren't cheap ! Use a lathe to just get the fit close, andthan use male and female laps, with very fine grit abrasives. I have photosof the these laps, if you'd like to see them, I'll send an attachment toyou. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 19 03:30:06 2000 e9J8U3G02252 Subject: Re: Rod case woods I haven't tried that though I think it would work. What I do have though and it does look good and is hard wearing is a PVCcase with canvas covering it. Mine has leather caps at either end. One issewn to the canvas at the bottom and the other hinges on leather sewn atthe top and is held closed with a buckle. It also has a shoulder strapwhich really gets airline baggage checkers excited because at first sightit looks very gun like if that's what you're on the lookout for. Tony At 05:20 PM 10/17/00 -0500, Dennis Bertram wrote:Has anyone tried to veneer on a PVC schedule 40 tube? Dennis Bertram -----Original Message-----From: Rick Funcik Date: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:36 AMSubject: Re: Rod case woods At 09:38 AM 10/17/00 -0500, you wrote:I really like the wood hex cases that some of the rodmakers create.Especially when heavily grained or burled (??) wood is used. Doesanyone have any suggestions on wood types to use or avoid on these? I agree with Seth's comments pretty much, that burl/intensely figuredwoodis hard to find in the sizes needed, it can be fragile, and I too thinkit's a matter of personal taste what kind of look you want for a case orany functional piece of this size. If you want to pursue the burl idea, try veneer. Most of the choice burland heavy figured wood that hits the market, gets snatched up by veneercompanies, they can pay more because they add more value and commandahigher end price. Hence there's tons of gorgeous figured veneer available.Now the technology to apply veneer well takes some practice and a littleequipment, but we rodmakers will try anything, right? For the substrate(the lumber core that the veneer's glued to, and which structurally formsthe box) many straight-grained woods will do, my first choice would bemahogany, it's very stable and straight, and glues real well. Conventional practice for veneering on solid wood, calls for applyingveneer to both faces, to balance the moisture permeability of both sidesand prevent warp later on. Especially important if the piece is exposed tomoisture swings, like at streamside! On the other hand, as long as yourhexglue up is real sound, I'd think you could get away with just veneering theoutside face. You'll want to apply some finish inside and out, which can bea trick; wipe on a varnish before applying the end caps? If you're using exotic woods, or even if you're using any hardwood at allthese days, you should be aware that we can use "certified",sustainably-harvested wood, that's taken from the land in such a way astoallow long-term conservation of the forest and the diversity of itsecosystem. Sure it costs a little more, but conservation of watershed iscritical to fine fishing anywhere, right? No commercial interest etc etc, and I don't sell lumber, but if you'reinterested I can refer you to suppliers. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from grau@buchlang.com Thu Oct 19 03:33:42 2000 e9J8XfG02387 +0200 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Wooden planing form (s) Dear friends any source or interested rodmakers for sell wooden planing forms ( forfinal planing, not preplaning)? Thanks Stefan from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Oct 19 06:02:24 2000 e9JB2MG04000 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:02:09 GMT Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Organization: vet What do you filter this stuff through? Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Yes it is expensive. I believe it is $23 a qt. but it produces the bestfinish I have seen from spar. I store it in the tube and have to filterand clean the tube out with laquer thinner a couple times a year or elsethe finish suffers. If I did not do restorations of older rods I wouldstick with P&L Varmour PU. I too tried floating mineral spirits andusing Bloxegen with limited success. Marty Marty,That's been my bigest bitch with P&L. The last gallon I boughtskimmedover so badly I called P&L tech. support. I mean I do it all, floatmineral spirits on top, spray in Bloxigen and seal it tight. Istillhave to hassle with filtering the stuff before I use it. (I don't storeitin my dip tube unless I'm doing more than one rod and as I'm a hobbiestthat's rare) They didn't know what to tell me but they did refund mymoney. Hard to complain about a company that goes the extra mile. But,Dam# it's expensive!!Marty At 11:05 AM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:marty wrote: I have used Pratt & Lambert #61 spar for years with greatsatisfaction.My only complaint is the dried plug that forms in the top of the diptube after just a couple days. I have tried to remedy this problemwithlittle luck. I never have this problem with PU. So, I use #61 spar onrestorations and PU on my own rods. I purchase the #61 in PA. as Iunderstand the stuff sold in NJ. is different (VOTE REPUBLICAN)Marty It's my understanding, from talking to a few paint people,that the marinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not been subjected tothesameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been using Pratt &Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses, costsanarm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. Themothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried theirvarnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western MarineSupply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Oct 19 07:27:45 2000 e9JCRiG04854 Subject: Re: Man O War Spar I use old pantyhose. from SWMBO (of coursse). -Doug At 09:59 PM 10/19/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:What do you filter this stuff through? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "marty" Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Man O War Spar Yes it is expensive. I believe it is $23 a qt. but it produces the bestfinish I have seen from spar. I store it in the tube and have to filterand clean the tube out with laquer thinner a couple times a year or elsethe finish suffers. If I did not do restorations of older rods I wouldstick with P&L Varmour PU. I too tried floating mineral spirits andusing Bloxegen with limited success. Marty Marty,That's been my bigest bitch with P&L. The last gallon I boughtskimmedover so badly I called P&L tech. support. I mean I do it all, floatmineral spirits on top, spray in Bloxigen and seal it tight. Istillhave to hassle with filtering the stuff before I use it. (I don't storeitin my dip tube unless I'm doing more than one rod and as I'm a hobbiestthat's rare) They didn't know what to tell me but they did refund mymoney. Hard to complain about a company that goes the extra mile. But,Dam# it's expensive!!Marty At 11:05 AM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:marty wrote: I have used Pratt & Lambert #61 spar for years with greatsatisfaction.My only complaint is the dried plug that forms in the top of the diptube after just a couple days. I have tried to remedy this problemwithlittle luck. I never have this problem with PU. So, I use #61 spar onrestorations and PU on my own rods. I purchase the #61 in PA. as Iunderstand the stuff sold in NJ. is different (VOTE REPUBLICAN)Marty It's my understanding, from talking to a few paint people,that the marinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not been subjectedtothesameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been using Pratt&Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses, costsanarm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. Themothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried theirvarnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western MarineSupply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Oct 19 08:20:49 2000 e9JDKmG06268 GAA22274 Subject: How black is black? Good morning, all -Getting my hardware ready for #3 last night, I blackened all thefittings with the Payne type solution. After 3 dunks of somewherearound a minute or so each, the best it seemed to do was a gunmetal greysorta color, and was sure a fair piece from what I would call "black"and didn't seem to be changing that much at that point. I haven't donemuch blackening before, and haven't been privileged to see rods with"blackened" hardware on them, so I can't judge if this is what to expector not. I don't need "jet black", but I would have liked to see it comeout darker. I'm a little concerned about leaving the metal in thesolution for too long if it is as strong an acid as I suspect. Imeasured my ferrule tabs after thinning them out and they are running.003" to .0035". I'm a little concerned that they might get eaten offif left in too long. Should I just go for it and not worry about theferrule tabs? How dark does N/S normally get when you blacken it? Thanks, again, for your help - mac from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 19 08:41:24 2000 e9JDfOG07116 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C039B0.A2BD0DA0 Hello Robert, nice. In fact, I plan to build another this winter. It also turned out tobe a true 3-wt which would suggest his version is correct. The only changeI made is in beefing up the tip a bit. I made mine .056 since that was thesmallest dimension available by closing my forms up completely.. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 9:25 PM Subject: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper I was just about to glue glue up the grip on an F.E. Thomas 6' 8" 3 wt.and I ran into a problem I used the taper from Howell's book, but recalledseeing that the original had a short grip. I found the same taper inMaurer's book with the notation that the grip is 4 3/4", but the stationsseem to be shifted on Maurer's taper. Shifting the taper by as much as thedifference in the two tapers will make a substantial difference. Cansomeone please tell me which taper is right? Both are ostensibly measured from a blank without varnish. The tapers in question are: Howell ( from Daryll Whitehead):butt tip0 .325 .2025 .310 .1868 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .07435 .170 .050 and Maurer: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 I'm inclined to trust Howell's taper because of the discontinuity at theferrule in Maurer's taper, and the annotation about the swelled butt.However, I may be less than objective since I've already glued up a coupleof blanks. TIA, -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C039B0.A2BD0DA0 Robert, what it's worth, I have built the Howell version and it turned out very = fact, I plan to build another this winter. It also turned out to = in beefing up the tip a bit. I made mine .056 since that was the = completely.. Richard KopeSent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 9:25 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Help with F.E. Thomas 3wt = taperI was just about to glue glue up = grip is 4 3/4", but the stations seem to be shifted on Maurer's = Shifting the taper by as much as the difference in the two tapers will = The tapers in question are: Howell ( from Daryll =Whitehead): .186 of swell .140 .128 .118 .109 .074 .050 and Maurer: I'm inclined to trust Howell's taper because of = discontinuity at the ferrule in Maurer's taper, and the annotation = glued up a couple of blanks. TIA, -- Robert =Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C039B0.A2BD0DA0-- from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Thu Oct 19 08:42:31 2000 e9JDgTG07199 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: How black is black? Ralph, I don't know much about this issue my self, but I did some bluing/blackening on NS ferrules the other night. I used photo fixer, and it got a darkgrey/blue,"gun smoke" color. Not like it was painted, it kept the sort of metallook.... I'm very pleased with the look, very much like the "black" snakes fromSnakeBrand....Also it seems to be pretty durable. Anyway I don't consider it as a problem,cause`it took the color rapidly when I smear the ferrules in a rag damp withfixer. What remains to achieve is to get the brass to blue to the samecolor...................... regardsdanny Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Good morning, all -Getting my hardware ready for #3 last night, I blackened all thefittings with the Payne type solution. After 3 dunks of somewherearound a minute or so each, the best it seemed to do was a gunmetal greysorta color, and was sure a fair piece from what I would call "black"and didn't seem to be changing that much at that point. I haven't donemuch blackening before, and haven't been privileged to see rods with"blackened" hardware on them, so I can't judge if this is what to expector not. I don't need "jet black", but I would have liked to see it comeout darker. I'm a little concerned about leaving the metal in thesolution for too long if it is as strong an acid as I suspect. Imeasured my ferrule tabs after thinning them out and they are running.003" to .0035". I'm a little concerned that they might get eaten offif left in too long. Should I just go for it and not worry about theferrule tabs? How dark does N/S normally get when you blacken it? Thanks, again, for your help - mac from Dennishigham@cs.com Thu Oct 19 09:12:39 2000 e9JECcG08180 Subject: Re: How black is black? Ralph-The Payne formula should give you a deep blue/black. Assuming your bottleof Payne solution is new, make sure you shake it up a little and give the solution time to work. It will get better/faster as it gets older. A few minutes....5 or even 10 should not harm your ferrules. I slowly swirl the ferrule around in the solution . I left a stripper guide in solution overnight and got a flakey covering and the metal was brittle. Dave LeClair can probably give you a better answer. Dave you out there?? Best Dennis from steve@hamiltonrods.com Thu Oct 19 09:14:41 2000 e9JEEeG08373 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper Robert, I've built two rods from this taper and chose the Maurer version bothtimes. I don't sell rods professionally, so the reason I had to buildtwo was because I let a friend borrow the first one on a fishing tripand I couldn't pry his fingers off of it when it was time to go home:) In both cases, I pushed the swell out to 10 inches because I don'thave a special swelled-butt region on my forms. Also, your originalemail appeared to have a transcription error in the Howell taper. I'vecorrected it below for archive purposes. Also--and this will perhaps expose my amateur builder status (havingonly built ten rods or so)--it appears to me that it's the Howellversion, not the Maurer version, that has a discontinuity at the 40"mark (ie. the ferrule location). Thinking about it right now, though,I'm guessing that what you are talking about is the sharp taper justup from the ferrule on the tip. Is that correct? --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper I was just about to glue glue up the grip on an F.E. Thomas 6' 8" 3wt. and I ran into a problem I used the taper from Howell's book, butrecalled seeing that the original had a short grip. I found the sametaper in Maurer's book with the notation that the grip is 4 3/4", butthe stations seem to be shifted on Maurer's taper. Shifting the taper difference. Can someone please tell me which taper is right? Bothare ostensibly measured from a blank without varnish. The tapers inquestion are: Howell ( from Daryll Whitehead):butt tip0 .325 .1585 .310 .1538 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .08835 .178 .07440 .170 .050 and Maurer: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 I'm inclined to trust Howell's taper because of the discontinuity atthe ferrule in Maurer's taper, and the annotation about the swelledbutt. However, I may be less than objective since I've already gluedup a couple of blanks. TIA, -- Robert Kope from steve@hamiltonrods.com Thu Oct 19 09:18:48 2000 e9JEIlG08618 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: How black is black? A few *minutes*?? Wow. My impression from talking to Dave L ( from whomI bought the bluing solution) was that it should be left in for 30- 45*seconds* and that you would achieve a shiny blue-black (not darkblack like the painted ferrules of yesteryear) hue. That's what I'vebeen doing and it works well--but I wouldn't describe the resultingcolor as true black. --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: How black is black? Ralph-The Payne formula should give you a deep blue/black. Assuming yourbottle ofPayne solution is new, make sure you shake it up a little and givethesolution time to work. It will get better/faster as it gets older. Afewminutes....5 or even 10 should not harm your ferrules. I slowlyswirl theferrule around in the solution . I left a stripper guide in solutionovernight and got a flakey covering and the metal was brittle. DaveLeClaircan probably give you a better answer. Dave you out there?? Best Dennis from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Thu Oct 19 10:11:00 2000 e9JFAxG11200 0400 Subject: Info in Post: Hexagraph This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C039BE.23193D40 ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C039BE.23193D40 Hi Bob, Hex info on the way, sorry for being so late. Take care, Tim Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker from caneman@clnk.com Thu Oct 19 11:48:14 2000 e9JGmDG15104 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) , Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Thanks for the Panty Hose tip. I've been running down to the local autopaint shop and getting paint strainers (the little disposable kind), andbeing as A.R. as I am, I strain my varnish after every two or three rods...you'd be surprised what shows up in that varnish after such a short periodof time! No matter how airtight the varnish room or the dipping box is,"stuff" just seems to find it's way in there. It's only been about 2 weekssince I strained this particular tube. Just tried the panty hose thing forthe first time a few minutes ago and after straining, found a small moth(about a size 18 LOL) and a plethora of specs of "whatever" in the pantyhose after I was finished. Of course, not having a SWMBO around here fulltime, I had to delve around in my closet to in the stack of "SLHBO" (stuffleft here by others") to get a pair of panty hose... boy, those were biggunstoo... can't imagine where they came from, but I had NO problem gettin thetoe of them to fit over the 4" top on my dipping tube! BUT, my point wasgoing to be that the panty hose seemed to be a finer mesh than thedisposable strainers I've been getting and does an excellent job of gettingthe extras out of the varnish. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Man O War Spar I use old pantyhose. from SWMBO (of coursse). -Doug At 09:59 PM 10/19/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:What do you filter this stuff through? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "marty" Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Man O War Spar Yes it is expensive. I believe it is $23 a qt. but it produces the bestfinish I have seen from spar. I store it in the tube and have to filterand clean the tube out with laquer thinner a couple times a year or elsethe finish suffers. If I did not do restorations of older rods I wouldstick with P&L Varmour PU. I too tried floating mineral spirits andusing Bloxegen with limited success. Marty Marty,That's been my bigest bitch with P&L. The last gallon Iboughtskimmedover so badly I called P&L tech. support. I mean I do it all, floatmineral spirits on top, spray in Bloxigen and seal it tight. Istillhave to hassle with filtering the stuff before I use it. (I don'tstoreitin my dip tube unless I'm doing more than one rod and as I'm ahobbiestthat's rare) They didn't know what to tell me but they did refund mymoney. Hard to complain about a company that goes the extra mile.But,Dam# it's expensive!!Marty At 11:05 AM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:marty wrote: I have used Pratt & Lambert #61 spar for years with greatsatisfaction.My only complaint is the dried plug that forms in the top of thediptube after just a couple days. I have tried to remedy this problemwithlittle luck. I never have this problem with PU. So, I use #61 sparonrestorations and PU on my own rods. I purchase the #61 in PA. as Iunderstand the stuff sold in NJ. is different (VOTE REPUBLICAN)Marty It's my understanding, from talking to a few paintpeople,that the marinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not been subjectedtothesameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been using Pratt&Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses,costsanarm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. Themothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried theirvarnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at Western MarineSupply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 12:04:14 2000 e9JH4DG15905 10:04:10 PDT Subject: RE: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper how does the howell taper work out to be an 80" rod? i am assuming it looks to me as if there is a stationmissing on the tip section. each piece should be 40"right? 6'8" is 80" and each section should be 40". timothy Howell ( from Daryll Whitehead):butt tip0 .325 .2025 .310 .1868 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .07435 .170 .050 and Maurer: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 19 12:36:43 2000 e9JHagG17056 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:24:25 -0700 Subject: Re: How black is black? e9JHagG17057 Hi Ralph, I've been using the Payne Oxidizer. What I have found is that 45 secondsshould be enough to give you good color. You can rinse and dip again for 15-20 seconds, but if you go to long the surface will etch and get dull (that'sprobably not the technical term for whats going on). If you varnish over theferrules you will find that they will darken significantly in color. If you don'tvarnish over the ferrules you might consider a thin coat of lacquer. This willalso darken the color significantly. I wouldn't describe Payne formula resultsas black. It is more of a deep dark blue. Also, I had one bottle for almost two years and eventually it stopped workingwell. I couldn't get the color or clarity I liked. Unpredictable dulling andvariation in darkness. A new bottle took care of the problem (thanks A.J.) Itwas either due to contamination or the stuff does have some kind of shelflife. I know that some water is introduced to the bottle as I dip and rinse thesections, even though I try to dry the area before re-dipping. A certainamount of moisture stays in the taped off areas so that may be thecontamination. I'm not sure. As you know the surface should be clean. I use acetone. Chris Ralph MacKenzie 10/19/00 06:19AM >>>Good morning, all -Getting my hardware ready for #3 last night, I blackened all thefittings with the Payne type solution. After 3 dunks of somewherearound a minute or so each, the best it seemed to do was a gunmetal greysorta color, and was sure a fair piece from what I would call "black"and didn't seem to be changing that much at that point. I haven't donemuch blackening before, and haven't been privileged to see rods with"blackened" hardware on them, so I can't judge if this is what to expector not. I don't need "jet black", but I would have liked to see it comeout darker. I'm a little concerned about leaving the metal in thesolution for too long if it is as strong an acid as I suspect. Imeasured my ferrule tabs after thinning them out and they are running.003" to .0035". I'm a little concerned that they might get eaten offif left in too long. Should I just go for it and not worry about theferrule tabs? How dark does N/S normally get when you blacken it? Thanks, again, for your help - mac from rmoon@ida.net Thu Oct 19 12:38:16 2000 e9JHcFG17193 horsesho@ptd.net, "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Bob How right you are. I was just dipping some rods when your e-mail camein. I laughed at your small moth and went in to see how I was doing andfound a giant spider on the side of the rod I was dipping. It had beenlong dead and how it got into my sealed tube I will never know. Fromnow on strain everytime. My wife wears a lot of knee highs and I shallnever want.Ralph from if6were9@bellsouth.net Thu Oct 19 12:42:26 2000 e9JHgPG17545 Subject: Re: How black is black? I've tried the Brass Black and Dave's Formula and both have produced a verynice shade of gray/blue or blue/black depending on the light. I also getdifferent results on N/S parts I've made and those I buy from Struble. TheStruble parts come out more on the gray (gunmetal) side. I'm sure it's dueto a difference in grade of the N/S stocks used in the parts. One thing Ilearned with both solutions is that if you don't like the results simplyremove the blackening with Brasso and start over again. I've got the firstset of hardware I blackened on a rod I carry in the truck. The reel staysin the glove box so it goes on and off quite a bit, and so far the seatlooks as good as the day it was dipped. I would like to note that I do notput any kind of protective coating (varnish etc.) on my parts, I never cared parts would look like after a few uses. from rmoon@ida.net Thu Oct 19 12:48:33 2000 e9JHmWG17886 horsesho@ptd.net, "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: color preserver I promised you I would let you know about my color preserverexperiments. I have tried it particularly with light colors, yellow,red etc. One coat does the job, but to be sure I have got the edgessealed I have defaulted to two coats. Wile it apparantly has a littlemore build than other color[preservers, the color change is nearlyundetectable. The thread has a little more gloss than formerly and eventhe fuzzies seem to lie down . Under varnish dip it is great. Only onelittle problem. I don't know where to get it, how much it costs. It isa Melamine and Vinyl glue. I use a toothpaste size glob and thin withabout a tablespoon of water. Maybe a bit more. Anyone know about thisglue. It was given to me and I have used only for the color preseerver. Ralph from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Oct 19 13:02:32 2000 e9JI2RG18674 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:01:48 -0500 R8.31.00.5) Subject: Re[2]: Rod case Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what woods the reel seats in this site are made out of. In particular, I wondered about the one that looks like it has circumferential rings or grain running around it.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re:Rod case Author: at Internet-Mail Check out the cases and the line of rods made from Japanese cane at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/ Brian from caneman@clnk.com Thu Oct 19 13:07:33 2000 e9JI7WG18995 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) ,, "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Man O War Spar This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03EA_01C039CC.ECADD220 Ralph,Yep, I'm beginning to think that NOTHING is insect proof. Maybe a =class 2 thread on the pvc cap? NAH, something would make it's way in = ferrule. This is the final coat and I've cast the fool out of the thing =prior to this and it really surprised me (50 feet consistently out of a =6' 2wt isn't bad the way I cast). After all my bitching about how it =wouldn't work, my hat is now off to Mr Hayashida. Great idea, even =though I still think it's a bit awkward looking (politically correct for = Darryl Hayashida (sorry if that is misspelled), I told you that if =I was wrong and this would work that I would be the first in line, on =list, to apologize and I honestly can't believe I sat out there for =three months trying to prove myself wrong, but I did, and was apparently =successful. While my design is quite a bit different from yours, the =concept does work so, sir, I like my crow medium well with a side of ='taters, if it wouldn't be too much trouble. The bamboo ferrule isn't =the easiest thing in the world to make (I can make Nickel Silver =ferrules much easier) and it's especially not easy to fit, but it does =work. The big drawback in fitting is if you go just a smidgen past a =good fit, you can't just take the ferrules off and put another set on... = Some saw this rod, unfinished, just the blank, at the Southern =Council Conclave. Those who flexed it (Hi Jim Hatfield for one) can =attest that it doesn't have a flat spot in the flex as does a n.s. =ferruled rod. Those who didn't get to play with it... well, it's =gripped, guided and finished now (as soon as this final coat of varnish =dries) and it will be at the SRG2000... so, drive on down, join us for =some great food and great fishing and make fun of the way the little rod = SRG will hopefully be the big test on the rod... good Lord willing =and the creek don't rise, I'd like to hang a few of those White River =browns on it to see how it holds up. That will be the acid test for the =rod. I know the ferrule holds up when you catch the neighbors fence on =a back cast and don't realize it until you power forward and have the =devil bent out of the rod, but a fish on one is different. If it holds =up to a couple of hard days of fishing on the White and North Fork, then =I figure it'll hold up anywhere.And Ralph... if Pat gets too many of those knee highs laying around =and needs to get rid of some of them... well, I'll be through your part =of the world the second week of November, and bring my panty hose =collection sack with me! LOL Could only find one pair in the closet, =and I don't wear them that often! LaterBob (the one with black feathers hanging out of the corner of his mouth) -----Original Message----- ; horsesho@ptd.net ; ='RODMAKERS' Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Bob How right you are. I was just dipping some rods when your e-mail camein. I laughed at your small moth and went in to see how I was doing =andfound a giant spider on the side of the rod I was dipping. It had beenlong dead and how it got into my sealed tube I will never know. Fromnow on strain everytime. My wife wears a lot of knee highs and I shallnever want.Ralph ------=_NextPart_000_03EA_01C039CC.ECADD220 Ralph, = make it's way in there! bitching about how it wouldn't work, my hat is now off to Mr = Great idea, even though I still think it's a bit awkward looking = told you that if I was wrong and this would work that I would be the = line, on list, to apologize and I honestly can't believe I sat out there = three months trying to prove myself wrong, but I did, and was apparently = concept does work so, sir, I like my crow medium well = isn't the easiest thing in the world to make (I can make Nickel Silver = much easier) and it's especially not easy to fit, but it does = big drawback in fitting is if you go just a smidgen past a good fit, you = just take the ferrules off and put another set on... the rod is then = can attest that it doesn't have a flat spot in the flex as does a n.s. = and finished now (as soon as this final coat of varnish dries) and it = the SRG2000... so, drive on down, join us for some great food and great = and make fun of the way the little rod looks, but believe me, you won't = Lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'd like to hang a few of those = a back cast and don't realize it until you power forward and have the = of hard days of fishing on the White and North Fork, then I figure it'll = anywhere. laying around and needs to get rid of some of them... well, I'll be = don't wear them that often! Later mouth) -----Original Message-----From: = petermckean = 'RODMAKERS' =<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= ------=_NextPart_000_03EA_01C039CC.ECADD220-- from if6were9@bellsouth.net Thu Oct 19 13:10:49 2000 e9JIAmG19313 petermckean , horsesho@ptd.net,"'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: color preserver I only use color preserver at a customers request. When I do use it I makeup a solution of Elmer's Glue and water, just enough glue to start turningthe water white. Add the glue in (very) small amounts and mix well. I'venever needed more than a single batch so I've never tried to work out aratio of glue to water, but it's not real critical, if it gets past waterthin, you've too much glue. I get the best results using as light mix andapplying multiple coats, allowing each coat to throughly dry before the nextgoes on. The lighter the thread color, the more coats. Keep it in a sealedjar between coats and shake it good before each application. I'm sure youcould store this stuff, but I've always thrown out any unused portion afterI'v used it on the rod I mixed it for. Coat company. I've never used it, but a friend that won't build a rodwithout color preserver swears by it. Ralph W Moon wrote: I promised you I would let you know about my color preserverexperiments. I have tried it particularly with light colors, yellow,red etc. One coat does the job, but to be sure I have got the edgessealed I have defaulted to two coats. Wile it apparantly has a littlemore build than other color[preservers, the color change is nearlyundetectable. The thread has a little more gloss than formerly and eventhe fuzzies seem to lie down . Under varnish dip it is great. Only onelittle problem. I don't know where to get it, how much it costs. It isa Melamine and Vinyl glue. I use a toothpaste size glob and thin withabout a tablespoon of water. Maybe a bit more. Anyone know about thisglue. It was given to me and I have used only for the color preseerver. Ralph from caneman@clnk.com Thu Oct 19 13:16:29 2000 e9JIGSG19814 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rod case John,The lower one looks like a high quality fiddleback maple. The best I'veever had looked like this (don't have any right now) but i got it fromInternational Violin Company. It was a Violin Neck Block, about a 100 yearold piece of wood, big enough to get about 12 or so fillers out of, costabout $70. You can get this type of wood a lot cheaper, but I had this leftover from my Luthier days, and have used it all up. I do have some nicelyfigured fiddleback, not as figured as what you see in that picture but stillvery nice maple and easy to get at a good exotic wood supply house, LikePaxton's of Tulsa, Oklahoma, or you can probably find some on eBay. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- bjust@bellsouth.net Subject: Re[2]: Rod case Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what woods the reel seats inthis site are made out of. In particular, I wondered about the onethat looks like it has circumferential rings or grain running aroundit.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re:Rod caseAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 10/18/00 9:22 PM Check out the cases and the line of rods made from Japanese cane at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/ Brian from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 14:11:42 2000 e9JJBfG22472 12:26:14 PDT Subject: RE: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper i just got out my howell book. you made some errorsif you copied it from the book. take a look. on thetip section the 0 and 5 stations are different and onthe butt the 35 station is diff and the 40 is left offand left out a measurement in the tip. when you makethose changes the variance from the maurer version isnot very different. timothy --- Heidt wrote:Timothy,The 0" station on the butt is the 40" station ofthe tip, give or take forthe ferrule. Gary H. At 10:04 AM 10/19/00 -0700, you wrote:how does the howell taper work out to be an 80"rod? i am assuming it looks to me as if there is astationmissing on the tip section. each piece should be40"right? 6'8" is 80" and each section should be 40". timothy Howell ( from Daryll Whitehead):butt tip0 .325 .2025 .310 .1868 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .07435 .170 .050 and Maurer: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Oct 19 14:14:20 2000 e9JJEJG22638 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:14:19 +0200 "petermckean" , ,"'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Sv: color preserver e9JJEJG22641 Listers I've used color preserver and thread "varnish" - both waterbased - from Gudebrods on a couple of rods, which have been fished hardthis past summer. Quite simply: It works. No cracks, no nothing,just a shiny surface and vivid colours. Usual disclaimer, tra-la-lee regards, carsten PS. on one of the rods, usind Pearsalls, I first applied a coatof Epifanes for that translucent look, then the Gudebrod finish.Looks just right. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Oct 19 14:15:26 2000 e9JJFPG22802 MAA28149 (5.5.2650.21) bjust@bellsouth.net, "'caneman@clnk.com'" Subject: Rod case http://www.bassviolins.com/ they have curly maple violin--bass neck blocks they will sell. I worked here forover 7 years and cut the wood and it's very good quality. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 11:12 AM bjust@bellsouth.netSubject: Re: Re[2]: Rod case John,The lower one looks like a high quality fiddleback maple. The best I'veever had looked like this (don't have any right now) but i got it fromInternational Violin Company. It was a Violin Neck Block, about a 100 yearold piece of wood, big enough to get about 12 or so fillers out of, costabout $70. You can get this type of wood a lot cheaper, but I had this leftover from my Luthier days, and have used it all up. I do have some nicelyfigured fiddleback, not as figured as what you see in that picture but stillvery nice maple and easy to get at a good exotic wood supply house, LikePaxton's of Tulsa, Oklahoma, or you can probably find some on eBay. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu bjust@bellsouth.net Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 12:56 PMSubject: Re[2]: Rod case Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what woods the reel seats inthis site are made out of. In particular, I wondered about the onethat looks like it has circumferential rings or grain running aroundit.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re:Rod caseAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 10/18/00 9:22 PM Check out the cases and the line of rods made from Japanese cane at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/ Brian from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 14:16:18 2000 e9JJGGG22943 12:16:17 PDT Subject: RE: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper oops! it's time for a coca-cola break. i actually cuta rod out once with a similiar type of mistake. it'sa pretty rod. i took extra care with cosmetics. wheni went to put it in the tube that's when i realised myerror. i had continued to measure it agaist the samemark i made on my bench especially for that rod. likei said it's a pretty rod. :-) timothy --- Heidt wrote: Never mind you are correct I was reading it wrong.sorry. Gary At 10:04 AM 10/19/00 -0700, you wrote:how does the howell taper work out to be an 80"rod? i am assuming it looks to me as if there is astationmissing on the tip section. each piece should be40"right? 6'8" is 80" and each section should be 40". timothy Howell ( from Daryll Whitehead):butt tip0 .325 .2025 .310 .1868 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .07435 .170 .050 and Maurer: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from Troy.Miller@bakeroiltools.com Thu Oct 19 14:35:43 2000 e9JJZgG24015 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) 14:31:19 2000 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) bjust@bellsouth.net, caneman@clnk.comSubject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case In the text on the "Prices" page, they provide the filler woods available.They have bird's eye maple, which would be the top rod, walnut in themiddle, and the bottom rod has tiger striped horse chestnut. TAM ---------- Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 01:12 PM bjust@bellsouth.netSubject: Re: Re[2]: Rod case John,The lower one looks like a high quality fiddleback maple. The bestI'veever had looked like this (don't have any right now) but i got it fromInternational Violin Company. It was a Violin Neck Block, about a 100yearold piece of wood, big enough to get about 12 or so fillers out of, costabout $70. You can get this type of wood a lot cheaper, but I had thisleftover from my Luthier days, and have used it all up. I do have some nicelyfigured fiddleback, not as figured as what you see in that picture butstillvery nice maple and easy to get at a good exotic wood supply house, LikePaxton's of Tulsa, Oklahoma, or you can probably find some on eBay. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu bjust@bellsouth.net Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 12:56 PMSubject: Re[2]: Rod case Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what woods the reel seats inthis site are made out of. In particular, I wondered about the onethat looks like it has circumferential rings or grain running aroundit.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re:Rod caseAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 10/18/00 9:22 PM Check out the cases and the line of rods made from Japanese cane at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/ Brian from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Oct 19 14:42:49 2000 e9JJglG24576 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rod case WHOW, I never thought of Hors Chestnut could have stripes like this!!We have a lot of those trees in the City park, I may bring a little sawon my next trip down town:-))) regardsdanny From: "Miller, Troy A." Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:35:28 -0500 bjust@bellsouth.net, caneman@clnk.comSubject: RE: Re[2]: Rod case In the text on the "Prices" page, they provide the filler woods available.They have bird's eye maple, which would be the top rod, walnut in themiddle, and the bottom rod has tiger striped horse chestnut. TAM ---------- Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 01:12 PM bjust@bellsouth.netSubject: Re: Re[2]: Rod case John,The lower one looks like a high quality fiddleback maple. The bestI'veever had looked like this (don't have any right now) but i got it fromInternational Violin Company. It was a Violin Neck Block, about a 100yearold piece of wood, big enough to get about 12 or so fillers out of, costabout $70. You can get this type of wood a lot cheaper, but I had thisleftover from my Luthier days, and have used it all up. I do have some nicelyfigured fiddleback, not as figured as what you see in that picture butstillvery nice maple and easy to get at a good exotic wood supply house, LikePaxton's of Tulsa, Oklahoma, or you can probably find some on eBay. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu bjust@bellsouth.net Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 12:56 PMSubject: Re[2]: Rod case Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what woods the reel seats inthis site are made out of. In particular, I wondered about the onethat looks like it has circumferential rings or grain running aroundit.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re:Rod caseAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 10/18/00 9:22 PM Check out the cases and the line of rods made from Japanese cane at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/ Brian from rens.oosthoek@wxs.nl Thu Oct 19 15:01:45 2000 e9JK1iG25465 ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:01:39 +0200 Subject: staggered ferrules This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C03A17.2E605D60 Fellow listmembers, Currently I'm copying a rod by the famous Austrian rodbuilder Walter =Brunner. One of the specific features of this rod is the staggered =ferrules. I tried to find info about the pros and cons of uneven but and =tip pieces by means of the search engine in the archives. It didn't come =up with a lot of clues. Therefore I'd like to find out your thoughts on =staggered ferrules. Are they a bonus to a rod? I remember a remark by =A.J. Thramer some time ago about rods with uneven parts. He said people =wouldn't buy them. I am only an amateur builder. I couldn't care less. =What I am interested in though is whether staggered ferrules make any =sense. Yours, Rens ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C03A17.2E605D60 Fellow listmembers, Currently I'm copying a rod by the = rodbuilder Walter Brunner. One of the specific features of this rod is = staggered ferrules. I tried to find info about the pros and cons of = It didn't = with a lot of clues. Therefore I'd like to find out your thoughts on = ferrules. Are they a bonus to a rod? I remember a remark by A.J. Thramer = time ago about rods with uneven parts. He said people wouldn't buy them. = only an amateur builder. I couldn't care less. What I am interested in = whether staggered ferrules make any sense. Yours, Rens ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C03A17.2E605D60-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 19 16:20:28 2000 e9JLKRG28725 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:23:01 -0700 , Subject: Re: color preserver e9JLKRG28726 Ralph, That sounds like good news if the source of the stuff can be found. I'vealways struggled with color preservation when dip finishing the rods. Doesthis stuff seem to keep out varnish invasion when dipping, even with only acouple coats of the glue? Thanks,Chris Ralph W Moon 10/19/00 10:46AM >>>I promised you I would let you know about my color preserverexperiments. I have tried it particularly with light colors, yellow,red etc. One coat does the job, but to be sure I have got the edgessealed I have defaulted to two coats. Wile it apparantly has a littlemore build than other color[preservers, the color change is nearlyundetectable. The thread has a little more gloss than formerly and eventhe fuzzies seem to lie down . Under varnish dip it is great. Only onelittle problem. I don't know where to get it, how much it costs. It isa Melamine and Vinyl glue. I use a toothpaste size glob and thin withabout a tablespoon of water. Maybe a bit more. Anyone know about thisglue. It was given to me and I have used only for the color preseerver. Ralph from owen@davies.mv.com Thu Oct 19 16:40:08 2000 e9JLe8G29557 Subject: Howell midge rod? This talk of Howell tapers reminds me that I once went looking fora Paul Young midge rod (used; too poor in those days to considerbuying new), and someone strongly suggested finding a GaryHowell equivalent instead. Does anyone know the rod? Have thetaper for it? How does it compare with the Young? Many thanks. Owen Davies from rmoon@ida.net Thu Oct 19 16:45:40 2000 e9JLjdG29827 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,dpeaston@wzrd.comSubject: Re: color preserver It works Chris. I have had no bleed through on six sections that IdippedRalph from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 19 16:58:47 2000 e9JLwkG00378 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:57:02 -0500 "petermckean" , ,"'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: color preserver I had heard of the Gudebrod color preserver, but haven't found it for saleanywhere ! GMA from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Oct 19 17:10:48 2000 e9JMAlG00954 Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:10:37 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: color preserver Hi, I got mine from Carsten, and the lable says its Pacific Bay who distributeit. I have never found their web site in US though. regardsdanny From: "nobler" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:02:36 -0500 Cc: , , "petermckean", , "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: color preserver I had heard of the Gudebrod color preserver, but haven't found it for saleanywhere ! GMA from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Oct 19 17:10:52 2000 e9JMApG00969 Subject: Re: color preserver e9JMAqG00970 It should be easy to find at almost any fly shop. I carry it in mine and haveused it with great success. John K.----- Original Message ----- ; ; 'RODMAKERS' Subject: Re: color preserver I had heard of the Gudebrod color preserver, but haven't found it for saleanywhere ! GMA from caneman@clnk.com Thu Oct 19 17:13:31 2000 e9JMDVG01207 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:06:51 -0500 Subject: Ammonium Chloride This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_045A_01C039EF.4887CC00 Does anyone on the list have a local source for Ammonium Chloride. I'm =down to enough to do a few more rods, and would gladly pay for it, =shipping on it, and for your trouble if you can get some for me. I want =2 each, 500 gram bottles. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_045A_01C039EF.4887CC00 Does anyone on the list have a local source for Ammonium = I'm down to enough to do a few more rods, and would gladly pay for it, = gram bottles. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_045A_01C039EF.4887CC00-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 19 17:18:07 2000 e9JMI6G01454 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:18:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Ammonium Chloride There's an ad in the last is of the Planing Form, of a Co. that has it. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Oct 19 17:20:11 2000 e9JMKAG01651 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:20:11 -0500 Subject: Re: color preserver Where is your shop John ? BTW, I have catalog sheets on the female laps, and inserts, I will pass outto anyone, at the SRG, next week. GMA from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 19 18:13:39 2000 e9JNDcG03042 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:15:25 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: color preserver I don't use the color preserver but I do use the wrap finish # 820 to seal thewraps before dipping. The color change is about 1/2 a shade darker. Youhave to be sure that you seal the whole wrap, if not the varnish will seep inaround the guide foot and leave a dark area.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com John Keenly wrote: It should be easy to find at almost any fly shop. I carry it in mine andhave used it with great success. John K.----- Original Message -----From: nobler Cc: ; ; petermckean; ; 'RODMAKERS' Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:02 PMSubject: Re: color preserver I had heard of the Gudebrod color preserver, but haven't found it for saleanywhere ! GMA from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 19 18:21:51 2000 e9JNLoG03485 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:23:39 -0500 Subject: Re: color preserver Danny,I have just received a notice that Pac Bay and Gudebrod have parted. Pac Baywill not be distributing Gudebrod Products any more. You can contactGudebrod atGudebrod.comTony FlyTyr@southshore.comI have not said much on the list about the Gudebrod products due to the factthat I am on their Flytying Pro Staff. If you need more information contactmeoff list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Danny Twang wrote: Hi, I got mine from Carsten, and the lable says its Pacific Bay who distributeit. I have never found their web site in US though. regardsdanny From: "nobler" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:02:36 -0500 Cc: , , "petermckean", , "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: color preserver I had heard of the Gudebrod color preserver, but haven't found it for saleanywhere ! GMA from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 19 19:36:42 2000 e9K0afG05547 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Ammonium Chloride This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C03A0C.2E77DE00 Try Anachemia Chemicals. A former list member, Russ Lavigne, works thereand mentioned it is part of their product line. Anachemia's web site is at: http://www.anachemiachemicals.com Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:09 PM Subject: Ammonium Chloride Does anyone on the list have a local source for Ammonium Chloride. I'mdown to enough to do a few more rods, and would gladly pay for it, shippingon it, and for your trouble if you can get some for me. I want 2 each, 500gram bottles. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C03A0C.2E77DE00 Anachemia Chemicals. A former list member, Russ Lavigne, works there and= at: http://www.anachemiachemicals.=com Richard NunleySent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:09 = Makers List ServeSubject: Ammonium =ChlorideDoes anyone on the list have a local source for Ammonium = I'm down to enough to do a few more rods, and would gladly pay for it, = 2 each, 500 gram bottles. Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C03A0C.2E77DE00-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Oct 19 19:53:38 2000 e9K0rbG05911 Subject: Power Fibers Web Site --=====================_17487181==_.ALT Hi everyone:First off, thanks for everyone who said so many nice things about the online mag. I wanted to let you know that I created a site to host the magazine. It can be found at:http://www.downandacross.com/powerfibersIt's crude, but you will be able to see what's coming up, and get different versions of the mag in screen and print optimized format. When issue 2 comes out in Jan 2000, you will still be able to get issue 1 from this main page.Best regards,Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comPower Fibers Online MagazineSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_17487181==_.ALT Hi everyone:First off, thanks for everyone who said so many nice things aboutthe online mag. I wanted to let you know that I created a site to hostthe magazine. It can be found at:http://www.downandacross.com/powerfibersIt's crude, but you will be able to see what's coming up, and getdifferent versions of the mag in screen and print optimized format. Whenissue 2 comes out in Jan 2000, you will still be able to get issue 1 fromthis main page.Best regards, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com Power Fibers Online MagazineSplitCane Fly Rods and Silk Lines --=====================_17487181==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Oct 19 20:00:22 2000 e9K10LG06142 Subject: Thramer 44 I just finished my Thramer 4'4" banty tonight, and I am excited about the rod. Looks great so far.I am sure that many have made the rod on this list. Could someone give me an idea of just how small they went on a reel seat and grip? I thought I might make a PHY Midge type cork grip and seat, but I wondered what others had found to be the right size for this rod.This would be a good time to say thanks to all those pro builders who are sharing their sweat and toil with us. We are really blessed with the tapers posted by you guys.AJ, are you out there? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Thu Oct 19 20:00:58 2000 e9K10vG06229 e9K10qp134586 Subject: Re: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper Oops. As several of you pointed out, I made some serious errors in thetaper I copied from Howell's book. I can't believe I messed up that bad intyping a taper. I apparently pulled some of the tip dimensions off of thePhillipson Premier taper next to it in the book and left a station out ofeach segment. The correct numbers are: Howell: butt tip0 .325 .1585 .310 .1538 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .08835 .178 .07440 .170 .050 and Maurer & Elser: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 The problem is that Maurer and Elser's taper has the same dimensions(except butt relative to Howell's taper. I've convinced myself that Howell'snumbers are correct. Sorry of the brain fart. -- Robert Kope from piscator@crosswinds.net Thu Oct 19 20:30:15 2000 e9K1UFG07163 Subject: [Fwd: Bulk order for CSE] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 65E904E7D537EC5607CFBF7C --------------65E904E7D537EC5607CFBF7C html=0; linewidth=0 Subject: Bulk order for CSE Hi All, I've had some work done at Classic Sporting Enterprises but am short oftheir minimum for a 40% discount. Anybody need ferrules and want to goin on a bulk order? Contact me off list. Brian --------------65E904E7D537EC5607CFBF7C-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Oct 19 22:09:56 2000 e9K39uG09301 Subject: Great mag for free You guys (and gals) should really check this out. It is great. Truly inspiring for me. http://www.westernflyfisher.com/0010-jk1zm34tu3/ Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from channer1@rmi.net Thu Oct 19 22:22:55 2000 e9K3MtG09738 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Bob;The reason you are coming up with so much crud is you are straining ittoo much. Every time you strain it, you expose it to more air. I haven'tstrained the stuff in my tube since I put it in there 2 yrs ago and itis still fine, the only bumps i get are from not getting all the sandingdust off before the second coat, the first coat almost always comes outperfect5(naturally).John Bob Nunley wrote: Thanks for the Panty Hose tip. I've been running down to the local autopaint shop and getting paint strainers (the little disposable kind), andbeing as A.R. as I am, I strain my varnish after every two or three rods...you'd be surprised what shows up in that varnish after such a short periodof time! No matter how airtight the varnish room or the dipping box is,"stuff" just seems to find it's way in there. It's only been about 2 weekssince I strained this particular tube. Just tried the panty hose thing forthe first time a few minutes ago and after straining, found a small moth(about a size 18 LOL) and a plethora of specs of "whatever" in the pantyhose after I was finished. Of course, not having a SWMBO around here fulltime, I had to delve around in my closet to in the stack of "SLHBO" (stuffleft here by others") to get a pair of panty hose... boy, those were biggunstoo... can't imagine where they came from, but I had NO problem gettin thetoe of them to fit over the 4" top on my dipping tube! BUT, my point wasgoing to be that the panty hose seemed to be a finer mesh than thedisposable strainers I've been getting and does an excellent job of gettingthe extras out of the varnish. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Douglas P. Easton Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:21 AMSubject: Re: Man O War Spar I use old pantyhose. from SWMBO (of coursse). -Doug At 09:59 PM 10/19/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:What do you filter this stuff through? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "marty" Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Man O War Spar Yes it is expensive. I believe it is $23 a qt. but it produces the bestfinish I have seen from spar. I store it in the tube and have to filterand clean the tube out with laquer thinner a couple times a year orelsethe finish suffers. If I did not do restorations of older rods I wouldstick with P&L Varmour PU. I too tried floating mineral spirits andusing Bloxegen with limited success. Marty Marty,That's been my bigest bitch with P&L. The last gallon Iboughtskimmedover so badly I called P&L tech. support. I mean I do it all, floatmineral spirits on top, spray in Bloxigen and seal it tight. Istillhave to hassle with filtering the stuff before I use it. (I don'tstoreitin my dip tube unless I'm doing more than one rod and as I'm ahobbiestthat's rare) They didn't know what to tell me but they did refund mymoney. Hard to complain about a company that goes the extra mile.But,Dam# it's expensive!!Marty At 11:05 AM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:marty wrote: I have used Pratt & Lambert #61 spar for years with greatsatisfaction.My only complaint is the dried plug that forms in the top of thediptube after just a couple days. I have tried to remedy this problemwithlittle luck. I never have this problem with PU. So, I use #61 sparonrestorations and PU on my own rods. I purchase the #61 in PA.as Iunderstand the stuff sold in NJ. is different (VOTE REPUBLICAN)Marty It's my understanding, from talking to a few paintpeople,that the marinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not beensubjected tothesameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been usingPratt&Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses,costsanarm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow. Themothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried theirvarnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at WesternMarineSupply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 22:29:07 2000 e9K3T6G10011 20:29:06 PDT Subject: Re: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper all, the howell taper is recorded in such a mannerthat it obviously uses a step-down ferrule. if youwould put a rod together an measure it from tip tobutt every five inches like the maurer version it isnot so obvious if you are not looking at it. accuallythey look like the same taper to me. i have built thegranger 7'victory taper with a step down ferrule,truncated ferrule and using a standard uni ferrule. you would be taxed to tell the difference brtween therods. timothy --- Robert Kope wrote:Oops. As several of you pointed out, I made someserious errors in thetaper I copied from Howell's book. I can't believeI messed up that bad intyping a taper. I apparently pulled some of the tipdimensions off of thePhillipson Premier taper next to it in the book andleft a station out ofeach segment. The correct numbers are: Howell: butt tip0 .325 .1585 .310 .1538 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .08835 .178 .07440 .170 .050 and Maurer & Elser: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 The problem is that Maurer and Elser's taper has thesame dimensions (except shifted 5 inches upward on thebutt relative to Howell's taper. I've convincedmyself that Howell'snumbers are correct. Sorry of the brain fart. -- Robert Kope ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Oct 19 23:45:42 2000 e9K4jfG11485 Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:45:41 +0100 Subject: Re: Thramer 44 Bob,The handle from the Hardy 4'4" Banty was as follows;Handle and reel seat all cork, reel seat 2 3/4" longThe distance from the far end of the butt ferrule to the beginning ofthe cork grip being 19 3/8"The handle shape on the original rod ( in the Hardy Museum )as produced very similar to those found on the Pezon et Michel rods !The reel seatbeing a sliding band with an end pocket .........Paul bob maulucci wrote: I just finished my Thramer 4'4" banty tonight, and I am excited about therod. Looks great so far.I am sure that many have made the rod on this list. Could someone give mean idea of just how small they went on a reel seat and grip? I thought Imight make a PHY Midge type cork grip and seat, but I wondered whatothershad found to be the right size for this rod.This would be a good time to say thanks to all those pro builders who aresharing their sweat and toil with us. We are really blessed with the tapersposted by you guys.AJ, are you out there? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from b2g@jps.net Fri Oct 20 00:19:37 2000 e9K5JbG12331 Subject: Looking for local builders This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C03A23.5CD05F40 To all, Utah) to find any other cane rod builders. With no luck I am turning to =everyone on the list to help me if you can. Thanks for you help. Robert H. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C03A23.5CD05F40 To all, locally (Salt Lake City, Utah) to find any other cane rod = no luck I am turning to everyone on the list to help me if you = RobertH. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C03A23.5CD05F40-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Oct 20 00:19:43 2000 e9K5JhG12340 Fri, 20 Oct 2000 06:19:43 +0100 Subject: Re: Thramer 44 Oooooooops,that handle shape should read half wells and NOT reverse halfwells...........Paul "paul.blakley" wrote: Bob,The handle from the Hardy 4'4" Banty was as follows;Handle and reel seat all cork, reel seat 2 3/4" longThe distance from the far end of the butt ferrule to the beginning ofthe cork grip being 19 3/8"The handle shape on the original rod ( in the Hardy Museum )as produced very similar to those found on the Pezon et Michel rods !The reel seatbeing a sliding band with an end pocket .........Paul bob maulucci wrote: I just finished my Thramer 4'4" banty tonight, and I am excited about therod. Looks great so far.I am sure that many have made the rod on this list. Could someone givemean idea of just how small they went on a reel seat and grip? I thought Imight make a PHY Midge type cork grip and seat, but I wondered whatothershad found to be the right size for this rod.This would be a good time to say thanks to all those pro builders who aresharing their sweat and toil with us. We are really blessed with thetapersposted by you guys.AJ, are you out there? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Oct 20 00:25:56 2000 e9K5PtG12639 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:25:51 -0700 Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:25:51 GMT Subject: Re: Thramer 44 FILETIME=[3624E540:01C03A56] From: bob maulucci Subject: Thramer 44Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:59:08 -0400 I just finished my Thramer 4'4" banty tonight, and I am excited about therod. Looks great so far.I am sure that many have made the rod on this list. Could someone give mean idea of just how small they went on a reel seat and grip? I thought Imight make a PHY Midge type cork grip and seat, but I wondered whatothershad found to be the right size for this rod.This would be a good time to say thanks to all those pro builders who aresharing their sweat and toil with us. We are really blessed with the tapersposted by you guys.AJ, are you out there? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com Hi Bob, I always finished them with a cigar 12 ring grip and either a Bellinger DLSB seat with a redwood filler(light as cork) or a cap and ring seat over a cork filler. Almost any grip/seat looks a bit 'clunky' but you have to grab onto something and I hate 'display' type itty bitty grips. One of Venneris small RS might do the trick.A.J.Thramer PS: The rod is not suitable for steelhead!_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Oct 20 00:29:33 2000 e9K5TXG12853 Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:29:29 -0700 Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:29:29 GMT Subject: Leonard Hunt Rods FILETIME=[B7F74D10:01C03A56] I am trying to get some info on the Leonard Hunt series of rods and I will admit to being pretty much in the dark so far.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from grau@buchlang.com Fri Oct 20 01:31:55 2000 e9K6VsG14023 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Wooden planing forms - can you make me ca. 6pcs. Friends cause i`m very busy i do not have the time to make final planing forms (wooden ones). Anyone interested in do this for me ( ca. 5-7 pcs), i willpay for! Sincerly Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri Oct 20 02:16:49 2000 e9K7GkG14705 fwd02.sul.t-online.com Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:30:57 +0200 Liste Subject: Re: color preserver Hi Danny, Nobler and the rest of the gang, don't know if this helps - but I found Gudebrod 811 Color preserver inthe jann's netcraft catalog. Check www. jannsnetcraft.com - the usualdisclaimer... bla .. bla... bla. Gut Span Ralf from Germany Danny Twang schrieb: Hi, I got mine from Carsten, and the lable says its Pacific Bay who distributeit. I have never found their web site in US though. regardsdanny From: "nobler" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:02:36 -0500 Cc: , , "petermckean", , "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: color preserver I had heard of the Gudebrod color preserver, but haven't found it for saleanywhere ! GMA from grau@buchlang.com Fri Oct 20 02:32:37 2000 e9K7WaG15027 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: color preserver Gang http://www.mudhole.com/docs/finish.html regards Stefan Ralf Ladda schrieb: Hi Danny, Nobler and the rest of the gang, don't know if this helps - but I found Gudebrod 811 Color preserver inthe jann's netcraft catalog. Check www. jannsnetcraft.com - the usualdisclaimer... bla .. bla... bla. Gut Span Ralf from Germany Danny Twang schrieb: Hi, I got mine from Carsten, and the lable says its Pacific Bay who distributeit. I have never found their web site in US though. regardsdanny From: "nobler" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:02:36 -0500 Cc: , , "petermckean", , "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: color preserver I had heard of the Gudebrod color preserver, but haven't found it forsaleanywhere ! GMA from danny.twang@porsgrunnsdagblad.no Fri Oct 20 04:11:52 2000 e9K9BoG16154 Subject: Re: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper Dear Listmembers, I`m a bit confused here....the rod seams interesting, and worthbuilding.But all this posting on the correct/incorrect taper makes me veryconfused. Can anyone with the correct taper please post it? TIAdanny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Oct 20 06:00:38 2000 e9KB0aG17124 e9KB0SW21125; Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Organization: vet Bob The famous Mrs. Beeton, in her book on "Domestic Economy", presages herinstructions for Jugged Hare, with the imperative "First catch your hare". I always, as a shooter, thought that that sentence sounded like the mostentertaining bit of the whole recipe. Your "catching of the pantyhose" carries something of the spirit of theoriginal! Tally Ho! Peter----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Man O War Spar Thanks for the Panty Hose tip. I've been running down to the local autopaint shop and getting paint strainers (the little disposable kind), andbeing as A.R. as I am, I strain my varnish after every two or threerods...you'd be surprised what shows up in that varnish after such a short periodof time! No matter how airtight the varnish room or the dipping box is,"stuff" just seems to find it's way in there. It's only been about 2weekssince I strained this particular tube. Just tried the panty hose thingforthe first time a few minutes ago and after straining, found a small moth(about a size 18 LOL) and a plethora of specs of "whatever" in the pantyhose after I was finished. Of course, not having a SWMBO around here fulltime, I had to delve around in my closet to in the stack of "SLHBO" (stuff>left here by others") to get a pair of panty hose... boy, those werebiggunstoo... can't imagine where they came from, but I had NO problem gettin thetoe of them to fit over the 4" top on my dipping tube! BUT, my point wasgoing to be that the panty hose seemed to be a finer mesh than thedisposable strainers I've been getting and does an excellent job ofgettingthe extras out of the varnish. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Douglas P. Easton Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:21 AMSubject: Re: Man O War Spar I use old pantyhose. from SWMBO (of coursse). -Doug At 09:59 PM 10/19/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:What do you filter this stuff through? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "marty" Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Man O War Spar Yes it is expensive. I believe it is $23 a qt. but it produces thebestfinish I have seen from spar. I store it in the tube and have tofilterand clean the tube out with laquer thinner a couple times a year orelsethe finish suffers. If I did not do restorations of older rods I wouldstick with P&L Varmour PU. I too tried floating mineral spirits andusing Bloxegen with limited success. Marty Marty,That's been my bigest bitch with P&L. The last gallon Iboughtskimmedover so badly I called P&L tech. support. I mean I do it all, floatmineral spirits on top, spray in Bloxigen and seal it tight. Istillhave to hassle with filtering the stuff before I use it. (I don'tstoreitin my dip tube unless I'm doing more than one rod and as I'm ahobbiestthat's rare) They didn't know what to tell me but they did refundmymoney. Hard to complain about a company that goes the extra mile.But,Dam# it's expensive!!Marty At 11:05 AM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:marty wrote: I have used Pratt & Lambert #61 spar for years with greatsatisfaction.My only complaint is the dried plug that forms in the top of thediptube after just a couple days. I have tried to remedy thisproblemwithlittle luck. I never have this problem with PU. So, I use #61sparonrestorations and PU on my own rods. I purchase the #61 in PA.asIunderstand the stuff sold in NJ. is different (VOTE REPUBLICAN)Marty It's my understanding, from talking to a few paintpeople,that the marinespars (those designed for boat useage) have not beensubjectedtothesameEPA-VOL requirements as "houshold" spars. I've been usingPratt&Lambert's top of the line spar. It hardens slow as molasses,costsanarm& leg, but a very NICE finish, maybe just a bit too yellow.Themothercompany of P&L is Sherman Williams. Has anyone tried theirvarnish?regards,Gary H. At 07:55 AM 10/18/00 -0500, nobler wrote:I found the true outdoor spar varnish Epifane at WesternMarineSupply, andit's made in Holland, and the real thing. GMA Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Oct 20 06:31:09 2000 e9KBV6G17861 e9KBUpW22653; Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms - can you make me ca. 6pcs. Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C03AE4.F75B8AA0 Guten tag, Stefan If you don't have time to muck around with the planing forms, Stefan, =when do you think you will ever find time to do the rods ? Peter Subject: Wooden planing forms - can you make me ca. 6pcs. Friends cause i`m very busy i do not have the time to make final planing forms =(wooden ones). Anyone interested in do this for me ( ca. 5-7 pcs), i =willpay for! Sincerly Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch=E4ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind f=FCr den/die Empf=E4nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der =Adresszeileaufgef=FChrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Gr=FCnden nicht mit diesen =Adressaten=FCbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zul=F6schen.S=E4mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C03AE4.F75B8AA0 Guten tag, Stefan If you don't have time to muck around = planing forms, Stefan, when do you think you will ever find time to do = rods ? Peter ----- Original Message ----- = From: "Stefan Grau" = Sent: Friday, October 20, 20005:30 = PMSubject: Wooden planing forms -can = ca. 6pcs. = i`m very busy i do not have the time to make final planing forms = wooden ones). Anyone interested in do this for me ( ca. 5-7 pcs), i = = S=E4mtliche = ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C03AE4.F75B8AA0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Oct 20 07:40:25 2000 e9KCeNG18852 e9KCd7W25754; Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms - can you make me ca. 6pcs. Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C03AEE.80605C00 Stefan I just wondered; I spend so much time on the forms, and then it seems =all the rest of my spare time on the rods, and I still don't know where =it all goes. Peter Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Wooden planing forms - can you make me ca. 6pcs. *lol* - that`s the rason - i have a lot to do with the rods - i need = Guten tag, Stefan If you don't have time to muck around with the =planing forms, Stefan, when do you think you will ever find time to do =the rods ? Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "Stefan Grau" = October =20, 2000 5:30 PMSubject: Wooden planing forms - can you make me ca. = cause i`m very busy i do not have the time to make final planing = wooden ones). Anyone interested in do this for me ( ca. 5-7 pcs), = sind f=FCr den/die Empf=E4nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der = wird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Gr=FCnden nicht mit diesen = so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend = S=E4mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen = sind f=FCr den/die Empf=E4nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der = wird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Gr=FCnden nicht mit diesen = so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zu = S=E4mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im = ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C03AEE.80605C00 Stefan I just wondered; I spend so much = forms, and then it seems all the rest of my spare time on the rods, and = don't know where it all goes. Peter ----- Original Message ----- Stefan= Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 = PMSubject: Re: Wooden planing = you make me ca. 6pcs. *lol* - that`s the rason - i have a lot to do with the rods - i = Guten tag, = planing forms, Stefan, when do you think you will ever find time to = PMSubject: = planing forms - can you make me ca. = InfoAccess = Datenbanken/Multimedia-Internet- Ausbildungen = Gruppe. = Schweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. -- Stefan Grau Lang InfoAccess = Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch=E4ftseinheit Ihrer Buchhandlung = Unternehmen der Hogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/info= http://www.hogrefe.de/v= Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84 Fax: (0)31 310 84 91 Mo-Sa, = Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationen = f=FCr den/die Empf=E4nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeile = wird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Gr=FCnden nicht mit diesen = =FCbereinstimmen, so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist = umgehend zu l=F6schen. S=E4mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen = unterliegen im Uebrigen Schweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. = ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C03AEE.80605C00-- from rmoon@ida.net Fri Oct 20 09:58:38 2000 e9KEwbG24003 Subject: color preserver The reason for my recent posting which in turn spawned a lot of replieswas to point out that I had found a color preserver that performed to mysatisfaction. Not that I wanted to find one. And, think as you will,there are times when color preserver is not only nice to have butmandatory, and those who decry it's use are setting themselves up tohave the same fine dish that Bob Nunley just enjoyed. For example, howdo you tip with white thread without color preserver? Anyoneduplicating old rod windings will always have recourse to use it. Ralph from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 20 09:59:59 2000 e9KExwG24157 Subject: Re: Looking for local builders In a message dated 10/19/00 10:20:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,b2g@jps.net writes: Doug Sandberg is in SLC. I don't know if I have his correct email address or not. He gave it to me at the Bishop Gathering 2000 and I had to ask Chuck Irvine to give to me again since my brain cells seem to be dropping data bits. I believe it is: Bigdug@inconnect.com I'm now trying to remember where I put Bill Heath's email address. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 20 10:04:11 2000 e9KF4AG24440 Subject: 2 or 3 wt rod? All, The local FF club held their meeting last night and I was asked by one member range. I haven't a clue as to what tapers will meet this requirement. Tapers? Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 20 10:07:51 2000 e9KF7oG24680 Subject: Bishop 2000 Gathering Pictures? All, I'm putting together scanned images from the Bishop rodmakers gathering. I have mine ready to be scanned and if anyone else has some scanned imagesor pictures, please email me and I will try to get them added to a web- site page. Don Burns from caneman@clnk.com Fri Oct 20 10:50:48 2000 e9KFolG26926 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: color preserver Ralph,You're absolutely right, and the crow was much tastier than I imagined, but still do one occasionally and I have used several different methods ofcolor preserving for different situations. Some originals were preservedwith Laquer, which slightly darkens, some with the makers own formula...I've used orange shellac to make thread appear aged and yellow... somethingonly time, or trickery can do, trickery with the aid of any number ofpresrvers, like white glue and water, yellow glue and water, guberodpreserver, etc, etc, etc, and now I'm looking for the Melamine and vinylglue that you used. One more spot in the cabinet won't be that hard tofind, and I will probably eventually run across something that specificallyneeds this.If a rodmaker is not doing restorations, and just wants to colorpreserve his thread on his new rods, then there's no need to have such adiverse collection of color preservers, but if you do restorations, youwill, someday, run upon a rod that has (example only) b&w jasper wraps thathave yellowed to any number of different shades over the years, and theonlyway I've ever found to accurately match things like this is to have a goodselection of color preservers and know what each one will do to the thread.I recently ran into this with a PHY rod that I aquired... it's one of theHeddon made Specials, and you talk about a bear of a time getting the colorto match!!! I went crazy for MONTHS trying to find the right thread, colorpreserver combination to make it work... ended up using a chestnut silk witha two pound cut orange shellac, but that was only after trying glue based,guberods, laquers, acrylics and anything else I could find that I thoughmight alter the appearance of the thread to make it match.So, if you do restoration work, then be open to the different methods ofpreserving colors (or altering and aging colors) on your wraps. Just myopinion, of course, for what it's worth... on the other hand, I was wrongabout the bamboo ferrule, wasn't I ! LOL Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: color preserver The reason for my recent posting which in turn spawned a lot of replieswas to point out that I had found a color preserver that performed to mysatisfaction. Not that I wanted to find one. And, think as you will,there are times when color preserver is not only nice to have butmandatory, and those who decry it's use are setting themselves up tohave the same fine dish that Bob Nunley just enjoyed. For example, howdo you tip with white thread without color preserver? Anyoneduplicating old rod windings will always have recourse to use it. Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Fri Oct 20 11:07:30 2000 e9KG7TG27650 Subject: Re: color preserver BobOne of the Grangers I just finished had been wrapped with a black andwhite Jasper, but the yellowed varnish made it look like gold andblack. I tried a number of preservers with the black and white and itall went to a muddy black. I finally matched the thing, by using goldand black jasper with the melemine color preserver. I can't see thedifference.I guess I should not have sounded off, but damn it I will useanything that works even if the oracle has not proclaimed it. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Oct 20 11:07:32 2000 e9KG7VG27661 Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:07:31 +0200 Subject: Sv: 2 or 3 wt rod? e9KG7WG27664 Don As I recall, Wayne did some conversions of his 7042 longtime ago. Should be just about right for plastic-guys. IfYou don't have those tapers, just mail me and I willlook them up. regards, carsten. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: 2 or 3 wt rod? All, The local FF club held their meeting last night and I was asked by onemember range. I haven't a clue as to what tapers will meet this requirement. Tapers? Don Burns from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Oct 20 11:14:14 2000 e9KGEEG28142 JAA01677 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: color preserver http://www.goldenwitch.com/cgi- bin/shop/index.cgi?page=gossamer.htm&cart_id=2959401_13373&partner=gw this is a picture of java brown silk and the same silk on a rod preserved withflecto varathane 900. this is the color preserver that D. Whitehead uses andshows how much it darkens. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 11:57:32 2000 e9KGvWG29935 09:57:31 PDT Subject: Re: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper "rod 'akers" robert, it's all too confusing! do you suppose theold timers we hold in such high esteem ever gotconfused? you betch ya! if it wasn't from the fumesit was the bourbon or the morning after. :-) timothy --- Robert Kope wrote:Of course you're right Timothy. The book lists thisas an 11/64 ferrule,but it looks like the butt is 11/64 (.172) and thetip could easily stepdown to10/64 (.156). Oh well, I've already got an11/64 truncateduniferrule mounted on the blank I'm working on. Thanks, -- Robert-----Original Message-----From: timothy troester ; rod 'akers Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 8:30 PMSubject: Re: Help with F.E. Thomas 3 wt taper all, the howell taper is recorded in such a mannerthat it obviously uses a step-down ferrule. ifyouwould put a rod together an measure it from tip tobutt every five inches like the maurer version itisnot so obvious if you are not looking at it. accuallythey look like the same taper to me. i have builtthegranger 7'victory taper with a step down ferrule,truncated ferrule and using a standard uni ferrule.you would be taxed to tell the difference brtweentherods. timothy--- Robert Kope wrote:Oops. As several of you pointed out, I made someserious errors in thetaper I copied from Howell's book. I can'tbelieveI messed up that bad intyping a taper. I apparently pulled some of thetipdimensions off of thePhillipson Premier taper next to it in the bookandleft a station out ofeach segment. The correct numbers are: Howell: butt tip0 .325 .1585 .310 .1538 .305 beginning of swell10 .244 .14015 .226 .12820 .214 .11825 .202 .10930 .188 .08835 .178 .07440 .170 .050 and Maurer & Elser: 0 .0505 .07410 .08815 .10920 .11825 .12830 .14035 .15340 .17845 .18850 .20255 .21460 .22665 .24470 .30575 .31080 .325 The problem is that Maurer and Elser's taper hasthesame dimensions (except shifted 5 inches upward on thebutt relative to Howell's taper. I've convincedmyself that Howell'snumbers are correct. Sorry of the brain fart. -- Robert Kope ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 20 16:19:25 2000 e9KLJPG09268 Subject: First photos from Bishop - more to follow All, It's a bit crude still and I will be adding more photos soon plus captions. Take a look at ------> http://hometown.aol.com/canerods/index.html Don B. from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Oct 20 18:13:10 2000 e9KND9G13280 Subject: How black is black Organization: GOULD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C03AB0.7E2CE360 This one is simply to good to pass up and it's time to add a little =levity.How black is black? As any good scientist knows one must run a double =blind study on a matter such as this so as to reach an unbiased and =therefore accurate conclusion. So what I've done is to fasten to the =wall sheets of paper coated with the various well know black shades. =These in clude light black, dark black, coal black, jet black, black as =night, pure black, boot black, and black hole black (the ultimate). Then =I've invited all the neighbors in to vote on which one is the blackest. =Well, what resulted was tantamount to a riot. There seems to be no clear =answer so I suggest we relay the problem to the Massachusetts Institute =of Technology and ask for a study.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C03AB0.7E2CE360 This one is simply to good to pass up = to add a little levity.How black is black? As any good = must run a double blind study on a matter such as this so as to reach an = unbiased and therefore accurate conclusion. So what I've done is to = the wall sheets of paper coated with the various well know black shades. = in clude light black, dark black, coal black, jet black, black as night, = black, boot black, and black hole black (the ultimate). Then I've = the neighbors in to vote on which one is the blackest. Well, what = tantamount to a riot. There seems to be no clear answer so I suggest we = study.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C03AB0.7E2CE360-- from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 20 20:16:09 2000 e9L1G9G16179 Subject: More Bishop Photo's All, I've debuged most of the changes to my site and added a few more pictures from the Bishop Gathering 2000. Thanks for looking. Don Burns Here's the url --> Don Burns' Home Page from tfbinn@mindspring.com Sat Oct 21 10:40:18 2000 e9LFeHG26293 [63.52.219.124] (may be forged)) Subject: test test from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 21 11:13:10 2000 e9LGD9G26912 Subject: Re: test Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binney wrote:test from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Oct 21 11:19:46 2000 e9LGJjG27332 Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:19:44 +0100 Subject: Re: test Well Iam not..............Paul bob maulucci wrote: Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binney wrote:test from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 11:27:26 2000 e9LGRPG27662 09:27:25 PDT Subject: Re: test isn't that next weekend? timothy--- bob maulucci wrote:Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binney wrote:test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 21 11:31:02 2000 e9LGV1G27865 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: test Timothy, you are right. Oops, it is next weekend. At 09:27 AM 10/21/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:isn't that next weekend? timothy--- bob maulucci wrote:Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binney wrote:test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 11:48:05 2000 e9LGm4G28369 09:48:04 PDT Subject: Re: test it does have the feel of conspiracy! timothy --- bob maulucci wrote:Timothy, you are right. Oops, it is next weekend. At 09:27 AM 10/21/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:isn't that next weekend? timothy--- bob maulucci wrote:Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binneywrote:test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 21 12:37:50 2000 e9LHbnG29350 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: test I'm not.... YET! *S*Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: test Well Iam not..............Paul bob maulucci wrote: Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binney wrote:test from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Oct 21 13:05:02 2000 e9LI51G00104 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish I've used water white varnish for two years as the varnish to coat wrapswith prior to dipping. It works great thinned down 25% and also 10%-15%. I've never used it for dipping because I can never find it inanything larger than quart size. Look back in the archives, varnish questions come up all the time. Iwas looking at Waterlox when they reformulated Man-O-War, but then founda couple of gallons of the old formulation at Menards in quarts andtalked the manager down on the price since it was obviously "old." Ohit's a sorry day when I have to pay retail! Brian from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 21 13:38:44 2000 e9LIchG00718 Subject: Re: test Jesus, guys, my inbox looks like FINALS week! What's with all the tests?????LOLArt At 12:33 PM 10/21/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:I'm not.... YET! *S*Bob--- --Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: tfbinn@mindspring.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:13 AMSubject: Re: test Well Iam not..............Paul bob maulucci wrote: Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binney wrote:test from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 14:24:15 2000 e9LJOEG01498 12:24:14 PDT Subject: Re: test art, i haven't recieved anything from rodmakers allday except the test messages. has there been anythingon rodmakers today? timothy --- Art Port wrote:Jesus, guys, my inbox looks like FINALS week! What'swith all the tests?????LOLArt At 12:33 PM 10/21/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:I'm not.... YET! *S*Bob--- --Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: tfbinn@mindspring.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:13 AMSubject: Re: test Well Iam not..............Paul bob maulucci wrote: Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binneywrote:test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat Oct 21 14:30:22 2000 e9LJUMG01779 MAA12365 Subject: Re: test Am I the only one who wonders why a TEST post generated so muych traffic? Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: test art, i haven't recieved anything from rodmakers allday except the test messages. has there been anythingon rodmakers today? timothy --- Art Port wrote:Jesus, guys, my inbox looks like FINALS week! What'swith all the tests?????LOLArtAt 12:33 PM 10/21/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:I'm not.... YET! *S*Bob-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: tfbinn@mindspring.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:13 AMSubject: Re: test Well Iam not..............Paul bob maulucci wrote: Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binneywrote:test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 21 14:30:48 2000 e9LJUkG01871 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: test Gee, Don't know for sure. I got a lot of responses to your test. That's what Iwas joking about. Yeah I just checked to responses I got and they'readdressed to "Rodmakers" and no to me. It sure is a beautiful day here inthe Northeast; maybe everyone is out enjoying the weather.Art At 12:24 PM 10/21/2000 -0700, timothy troester wrote:art, i haven't recieved anything from rodmakers allday except the test messages. has there been anythingon rodmakers today? timothy --- Art Port wrote:Jesus, guys, my inbox looks like FINALS week! What'swith all the tests?????LOLArt At 12:33 PM 10/21/2000 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:I'm not.... YET! *S*Bob--- --Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: tfbinn@mindspring.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:13 AMSubject: Re: test Well Iam not..............Paul bob maulucci wrote: Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binneywrote:test ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from djk762@hotmail.com Sat Oct 21 14:53:55 2000 e9LJrsG02395 Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:53:49 -0700 Oct 2000 19:53:49 GMT Subject: C.S.E. cork? FILETIME=[A169B0E0:01C03B98] Rodmakers- Anyone have experience with Baily Woods' cork rings? -David Kashuba.Sacramento CA_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 21 15:00:33 2000 e9LK0WG02745 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: C.S.E. cork? Nope, but if you get positive feedback about them, let me know... I'm alwayslooking for better cork, and frankly, am down to about 30 pieces right now,so need some more. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: C.S.E. cork? Rodmakers- Anyone have experience with Baily Woods' cork rings? -David Kashuba.Sacramento CA_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile athttp://profiles.msn.com. from Canerods@aol.com Sat Oct 21 16:50:44 2000 e9LLohG04533 Subject: Re: How black is black In a message dated 10/20/00 4:13:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,rsgould@cmc.net writes: Ray, Color is an interesting. Everyone sees colors differently. There was a study of what trout see underwater and most colors don't remotely resemble the colors as seen in air. Don Burns Don B. from corens6001@juno.com Sat Oct 21 17:27:46 2000 e9LMRjG05322 18:27:36 EDT Subject: Re: How black is black ray, I'm sorry but i can't see any color at all. Which black are youreferring to. I'll try to look it up in Timothy's Gary Borger PantoneColor System Chart bill On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:50:32 EDT Canerods@aol.com writes:In a message dated 10/20/00 4:13:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rsgould@cmc.net writes: little levity.How black is black? As any good scientist knows one must run a double blind study on a matter such as this so as to reach an unbiased and therefore accurate conclusion. So what I've done is to fasten to the wall sheets of paper coated with the various well know black shades. These in clude light black, dark black, coal black, jet black, black as night, pure black, boot black, and black hole black (the ultimate). Then I've invited all the neighbors in to vote on which one is the blackest. Well, what resulted was tantamount to a riot. There seems to be no clear answer so I suggest we relay the problem to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and ask for a study.Ray >> Ray, Color is an interesting. Everyone sees colors differently. There was a study of what trout see underwater and most colors don't remotely resemble the colors as seen in air. Don Burns Don B. ________________________________________________________________YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Oct 21 17:40:42 2000 e9LMefG05623 Subject: CSE Order YEAARRRRGGHHH! If you've tried to contact me and haven't heard back, please try again. My(*%@$%%$$^* mail server went down last weekend, and now my computercrashed!!(I'm sending this from my daughter's computer. Nice Barbie screen saver, Imust say.) So sorry for inconveniencing anyone. Brian I'm not.... YET! *S*Bob-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: tfbinn@mindspring.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:13 AMSubject: Re: test Well Iam not..............Paul bob maulucci wrote: Hi Winston:The list is up. I bet everyone is at the SRG.Bob At 10:43 AM 10/21/00 -0500, Winston Binney wrote:test from zimmer@adams.net Sat Oct 21 18:04:30 2000 e9LN4TG06071 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: Re: how black is black This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C03B8A.3493C900 BLACK IS BLACK...WHITE IS WHITE..'.STONES' ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C03B8A.3493C900 WHITE..'.STONES' ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C03B8A.3493C900-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Oct 21 18:44:00 2000 e9LNhxG06808 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: C.S.E. cork? If Bailey sells them, I'll bet there good! A real gentelman to dealwith. (SOS no financial interest , bla,bla ,bla...yata,yata,yata........Marty Nope, but if you get positive feedback about them, let me know... I'malwayslooking for better cork, and frankly, am down to about 30 pieces right now,so need some more. Bob -----Original Message-----From: David Kashuba Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 2:47 PMSubject: C.S.E. cork? Rodmakers- Anyone have experience with Baily Woods' cork rings? -David Kashuba.Sacramento CA _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile athttp://profiles.msn.com. from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 21 18:55:10 2000 e9LNt9G07266 Subject: Thramer 444 Hi:I forgot something important here, what is the recommended guide spacing? Thanks, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 21 19:16:08 2000 e9M0G7G07786 Subject: Re: Thramer 444 Bob,I save MANY things 8^) ! "Subject: 4'4" Guide Spacing A bit of housecleaning today....The guide spacing for the 4'4" taper from a couple of months ago4" 1/08.25" 1/013.5" #120" #228" Strip GuideA.J.Thramer" Enjoy,Art At 07:53 PM 10/21/2000 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:Hi:I forgot something important here, what is the recommended guidespacing? Thanks, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from Canerods@aol.com Sat Oct 21 20:05:14 2000 e9M15DG08929 Subject: Re: How black is black In a message dated 10/21/00 3:28:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, corens6001@juno.com writes: Is that Pantone's RGB or CMYK color chart - they're both different. Try Pantone 026 as a good example. Don Burns from bob@downandacross.com Sat Oct 21 20:49:21 2000 e9M1nKG09698 Subject: Re: Thramer 444 Thanks Art, Brad, and Mark. Scary, that's almost what I came up with myself. Seriously. I used the online Hexrod and guessed I would be about 2 inches below half way. I had:"Guide Distance from tip:4 1/2 inches, 9 1/2 inches, 15 1/8 inches, 21 1/4 inches, 28 inches"Casts pretty nice in the dark, from what I can tell! :>) I made it as a quad, and I think I will try the 3 or 2 DT I have. Or maybe a level 2 silk I have. The TT3/4 feels a tad too much. Bob At 08:16 PM 10/21/00 -0400, you wrote:Bob,I save MANY things 8^) ! "Subject: 4'4" Guide Spacing A bit of housecleaning today....The guide spacing for the 4'4" taper from a couple of months ago4" 1/08.25" 1/013.5" #120" #228" Strip GuideA.J.Thramer" Enjoy,Art At 07:53 PM 10/21/2000 -0400, bob maulucci wrote:Hi:I forgot something important here, what is the recommended guidespacing?Thanks, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from piscator@crosswinds.net Sat Oct 21 20:59:56 2000 e9M1xuG10185 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: how black is black "The ink is black, the page is white." Three Dog Night http-equiv=Content-Type> BLACK IS BLACK...WHITE IS WHITE..'.STONES' from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Oct 22 11:05:36 2000 e9MG5aG18860 209F3BEEF Subject: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips Just bought a copy of Don Phillips' "the Technology of Fly Rods" and itlooks like this should be in every serious rodmakers book case. The bookis a thorough coverage of modern and historical rod design and evolution,including bamboo, although the emphasis is on fibre glass and graphite. Good section on the mechanics of casting. Lots of engineering info on rodbehaviour , x- sectional shapes, etc.. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sun Oct 22 16:02:04 2000 e9ML24G23138 Subject: "soft" rod tips My first 15 or so rods were built nodeless, flamed, using Titebond II forthe splices and Shell Epon for the strips. Recently I have attempted makingnoded rods, unflamed, using Shell Epon to glue up the strips. I am runninginto a problem of the tips taking a set. Perhaps "set" is not the correctterm here. I can bend the upper 18" or so of the tip on some of them injust about any direction and they will remain at that position. I suspectthat it might be my heat treatment procedure. With the flamed, nodelessrods I followed up the flaming with a heat treatment of ca. 10 minutes at375* F. However, with the latter I was heat treating the half culm sectionsof internodes prior to splitting, i.e. lots of "wood" in the oven. Theblonde, noded rods are heated at ca. 8 min. at 375*F. However, in this caseI am heat treating only the bound, rough planed strips, i.e. very little"wood" in the oven. I have used both a hot air gun oven and a strip heateroven with similar results.Having searched the archives on heat treatments, I find that many of yourecommend heating at 350*F for 30 minutes to ca. an hour. Any comments,criticisms, suggestions?If this topic is of no interest on a slow weekend, please forgive my takingup bandwidth.J. Snider from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Oct 22 16:42:54 2000 e9MLgsG23951 5C814BEE2 Subject: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips In response to several inquiries, the book was bought at an Orvis store inCape Cod when I was Striper fishing last week. The book is published byFrank Amato Publications, , so it should be available at all the usualsources such as Amazon.com, etc. from channer1@rmi.net Sun Oct 22 17:06:09 2000 e9MM69G24423 Subject: Re: "soft" rod tips Jerry;How soon after the glue is set have you noticed this problem? I had thesame thing with glue less than a week old.After that, the problem seemsto clear up. I have taken to heat treating the glued up sections at 200d have that was glued with Eopn is only 3yrs, but it is still straight, soI'm not worrying about it much. try bending again in a week or so to seeif it was just the glue not completely cured.John Jerry Snider wrote: My first 15 or so rods were built nodeless, flamed, using Titebond II forthe splices and Shell Epon for the strips. Recently I have attempted makingnoded rods, unflamed, using Shell Epon to glue up the strips. I am runninginto a problem of the tips taking a set. Perhaps "set" is not the correctterm here. I can bend the upper 18" or so of the tip on some of them injust about any direction and they will remain at that position. I suspectthat it might be my heat treatment procedure. With the flamed, nodelessrods I followed up the flaming with a heat treatment of ca. 10 minutes at375* F. However, with the latter I was heat treating the half culm sectionsof internodes prior to splitting, i.e. lots of "wood" in the oven. Theblonde, noded rods are heated at ca. 8 min. at 375*F. However, in this caseI am heat treating only the bound, rough planed strips, i.e. very little"wood" in the oven. I have used both a hot air gun oven and a strip heateroven with similar results.Having searched the archives on heat treatments, I find that many of yourecommend heating at 350*F for 30 minutes to ca. an hour. Anycomments,criticisms, suggestions?If this topic is of no interest on a slow weekend, please forgive my takingup bandwidth.J. Snider from anglport@con2.com Sun Oct 22 17:10:18 2000 e9MMAHG24614 Subject: Re: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips http://www.addall.com/ It compares all the sellers it can find and adds in their shipping beforecomparing. I haven't used any of the stores yet, so I can't vouch for their service,bu there are some "biggies" in the lists.Art At 05:39 PM 10/22/2000 -0400, Ted Knott wrote:In response to several inquiries, the book was bought at an Orvis store inCape Cod when I was Striper fishing last week. The book is published byFrank Amato Publications, , so it should be available at all the usualsources such as Amazon.com, etc. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Oct 22 17:29:06 2000 e9MMT6G25128 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: "soft" rod tips Jerry Snider wrote: Any comments, criticisms, suggestions?J. Snider Jerry,I'm still rather new to Epon, but had a really interesting talk with RalphO'Quinn a few weeks ago. Ralph owns Trondak, U-40 company, and probablyknowsmore about glues than most of us. We had booths next to each other at theSouthern FFF Conclave.Ralph has built a few bamboo rods, and since he knows so much about glueIwanted his ideas on what was best. He said, "Resorcinol, no doubt." Then heasked what I used, and I told him Epon. He couldn't believe it. He saidthere's no way Epon would ever be stiff enough to use for gluing a rod. Hesaid, "All your rods will be noodles."So I just handed him one, and said, "Go cast this noodle, and tell me whatyou think." He never did cast it. But he twisted it and bent it till I justknew it would explode. Finally he asked, "Okay, what's your regimen?" And Iexplained that I used Epon 826 and Versamid 3140 hardener. He said, "therehasto be more to it than that." And I said, "Yes, there is. After the glue hasset for 16-20 hours, I thermal set the glue at 180*F for four hours." It was as if a light came on for him. It turns out that most of his gluesare Epon based, with a few added ingredients for clarity. He knows Eponbackwards and forwards. But none of his products are heat seat types ofglues. Apparently the heat setting really adds a lot to the "stiffness" (myterm) of Epon. So I guess I'm going all the way around the block to ask if you have doneany thermal setting on the Epon? Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Oct 22 20:06:48 2000 e9N16lG27565 Subject: Re: How black is black? In a message dated 10/19/2000 9:21:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mrmac@tcimet.net writes: When using the Payne formula, you only need to dipthe part for 30 seconds to one minute usually, depending onthe age and strength of the solution. As the solution ages, itgets stronger and will work faster, until it gets too strong. Thenit will work so fast, that it will be totally colored with in abouttwo seconds. This is not good, as this will etch the nickel silver,badly if left in the solution for any amount of time. When yoursolution starts getting to that point, throw it away and get somefresh stuff. The color that this stuff imparts on the nickel silver isnot a "Black." It is what I would call a translucent blue/black.It needs to be coated with a lacquer or equivalent for threereasons. First, the clear coating will darken the color, so it willlook more "Black." Secondly, this will help to keep the component from getting scratched easily. Thirdly, is that the Oxidized finish will fade over time, due to the UV rays from sun light. You mustcoat the component with a clear coat that has UV protection, otherwise, you will have to re-Oxidize the part again in a few years I use a product called Sta-Brite. It is made for clear coatingBrass lamps, beds, etc. This is the best that I have found for thispurpose. It is sold by most quality wood working supply houses. What ever you do, do not dip your components for five to ten minutes!!! This will "EAT" your component. Even if your solution isnew and fresh, you shouldn't need any more than Two minutes at the most. I find that dipping for 30 seconds, then rinsing anddrying and re dipping for another 20 to 30 seconds, will usuallygive a darker color than just dipping for 60 seconds. If anyone is having problems with Oxidizing, just let meknow and I'll see what I can come up with to help. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 20:09:43 2000 e9N19gG27710 18:09:43 PDT Subject: Re: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips amazon doesn't have it. i all resdy tried. timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:In response to several inquiries, the book wasbought at an Orvis store inCape Cod when I was Striper fishing last week. Thebook is published byFrank Amato Publications, , so it should be ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sun Oct 22 20:58:17 2000 e9N1wGG28826 Subject: Re: "soft" rod tips Good point, John. And in fact, this, indeed, was the case on one of therods. After a week the tip remained straight. However, the other two aretwo weeks old and still soft. One of the two was also heat treated afterglueup for one hour at 180*F. This one is giving me a real problem--to thepoint of me breaking it every few inches from tip to butt. The tip piecesbroke as if they might be overcooked. About half way down the section, itbegan splintering like it should. I have rods that I have built for friends that have been fished 200+ daysper year for the past 3-4 years with no "set" problems at all. However thelatter were flamed, nodeless.Heck, I was test casting the nodeless rods ca. 3 days after glueup and hadno problems such as this. Since those were flamed AND heat treated I simplysuspected that heat treatment might be the problem. Guess I will flame up aculm and build it noded as a comparison to the unflamed with which I amhaving problems.At 04:10 PM 10/22/2000 -0600, channer wrote:Jerry;How soon after the glue is set have you noticed this problem? I had thesame thing with glue less than a week old.After that, the problem seemsto clear up. I have taken to heat treating the glued up sections at 200d have that was glued with Eopn is only 3yrs, but it is still straight, soI'm not worrying about it much. try bending again in a week or so to seeif it was just the glue not completely cured.John Jerry Snider wrote: My first 15 or so rods were built nodeless, flamed, using Titebond II forthe splices and Shell Epon for the strips. Recently I have attemptedmakingnoded rods, unflamed, using Shell Epon to glue up the strips. I am runninginto a problem of the tips taking a set. Perhaps "set" is not the correctterm here. I can bend the upper 18" or so of the tip on some of them injust about any direction and they will remain at that position. I suspectthat it might be my heat treatment procedure. With the flamed, nodelessrods I followed up the flaming with a heat treatment of ca. 10 minutes at375* F. However, with the latter I was heat treating the half culmsectionsof internodes prior to splitting, i.e. lots of "wood" in the oven. Theblonde, noded rods are heated at ca. 8 min. at 375*F. However, in thiscaseI am heat treating only the bound, rough planed strips, i.e. very little"wood" in the oven. I have used both a hot air gun oven and a strip heateroven with similar results.Having searched the archives on heat treatments, I find that many of yourecommend heating at 350*F for 30 minutes to ca. an hour. Anycomments,criticisms, suggestions?If this topic is of no interest on a slow weekend, please forgive my takingup bandwidth.J. Snider from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sun Oct 22 21:58:10 2000 e9N2w9G00332 Subject: Re: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips file:///C|/WINDOWS/DESKTOP/angler.htm timothy troester wrote: amazon doesn't have it. i all resdy tried. timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:In response to several inquiries, the book wasbought at an Orvis store inCape Cod when I was Striper fishing last week. Thebook is published byFrank Amato Publications, , so it should be ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Oct 23 00:17:55 2000 e9N5HsG02650 Subject: Re: "soft" rod tips Organization: GOULD Hi to all,After reading all the messages about "soft tips" it sue seems to me to beanother good reason to stick with the tried and true Urac 185.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: "soft" rod tips Good point, John. And in fact, this, indeed, was the case on one of therods. After a week the tip remained straight. However, the other two aretwo weeks old and still soft. One of the two was also heat treated afterglueup for one hour at 180*F. This one is giving me a real problem--to thepoint of me breaking it every few inches from tip to butt. The tip piecesbroke as if they might be overcooked. About half way down the section, itbegan splintering like it should.I have rods that I have built for friends that have been fished 200+ daysper year for the past 3-4 years with no "set" problems at all. However thelatter were flamed, nodeless.Heck, I was test casting the nodeless rods ca. 3 days after glueup and hadno problems such as this. Since those were flamed AND heat treated Isimplysuspected that heat treatment might be the problem. Guess I will flame upaculm and build it noded as a comparison to the unflamed with which I amhaving problems.At 04:10 PM 10/22/2000 -0600, channer wrote:Jerry;How soon after the glue is set have you noticed this problem? I had thesame thing with glue less than a week old.After that, the problem seemsto clear up. I have taken to heat treating the glued up sections at 200d have that was glued with Eopn is only 3yrs, but it is still straight, soI'm not worrying about it much. try bending again in a week or so to seeif it was just the glue not completely cured.John Jerry Snider wrote: My first 15 or so rods were built nodeless, flamed, using Titebond IIforthe splices and Shell Epon for the strips. Recently I have attemptedmakingnoded rods, unflamed, using Shell Epon to glue up the strips. I amrunninginto a problem of the tips taking a set. Perhaps "set" is not thecorrectterm here. I can bend the upper 18" or so of the tip on some of them injust about any direction and they will remain at that position. Isuspectthat it might be my heat treatment procedure. With the flamed,nodelessrods I followed up the flaming with a heat treatment of ca. 10 minutesat375* F. However, with the latter I was heat treating the half culmsectionsof internodes prior to splitting, i.e. lots of "wood" in the oven. Theblonde, noded rods are heated at ca. 8 min. at 375*F. However, in thiscaseI am heat treating only the bound, rough planed strips, i.e. verylittle"wood" in the oven. I have used both a hot air gun oven and a stripheateroven with similar results.Having searched the archives on heat treatments, I find that many ofyourecommend heating at 350*F for 30 minutes to ca. an hour. Anycomments,criticisms, suggestions?If this topic is of no interest on a slow weekend, please forgive mytakingup bandwidth.J. Snider from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Oct 23 01:05:09 2000 e9N656G03874 Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:57:53 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) channer1@rmi.net Subject: RE: "soft" rod tips No offence Ray, but if anyone tries to separate me from my Resourcinol, I'mgoing to glue myself to my bench with it.Mike Hi to all,After reading all the messages about "soft tips" it sue seems to me to beanother good reason to stick with the tried and true Urac 185.Ray from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Oct 23 02:00:58 2000 e9N70vG05062 Subject: Re.: "soft" rod tips e9N70wG05063 Hi Listers Soft tips can happen out of 3 reasons, or combinationsthereoff: 1. faulty heattreating2. Moisture in the bamboo3. Glue not properly cured Ad. 1: flamed rods are less inclined to take a set than isblond rods. You could say the more flamed, themore steely the rod. Remember to stop beforeYou are making a carbon rod, though.... Ad. 2: Moisture in bamboo makes it soft, like any othergrass, or wood. Ad. 3: Provided You use Urac, Resourcinol, epoxy,PU or PVA, You will have no problem, as long asthe glue has had the right time and temperature todry up. Read makers recommendations, orsearch the archive. Using the wrong glue, whatever that might be, andnot adhering to the makers recommandations, thesplits can move independently. Thus You have asoft tip. If the right glue has cured correctly, the glue have noinfluence as to whether the rod takes a set or not.The mass of the glue is insignificant compared tothe mass of the bamboo (If Your 60 degree anglesare done properly, that is. Otherwise use a gluewith gapfilling propertie`:-) Problem A is when You have a combination of one of the abovementioned. It can be a hard one to crack. Problem B is when Youhave a soft rod and never finds an explanation, due to whateverreason. I've got one of those in the rod rack at home - stays softlike putty no matter what..... The above is what I've learned from projects going wrong andtrying all different kinds of experiments. still much to try, though. regards, carsten from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Oct 23 07:26:19 2000 e9NCQIG08484 Subject: soft (or is it brittle?) tips Many kind thanks to those of you who made comments/recommendations,onlineand offline, regarding my plight with a couple of soft tips. I attempted toanswer each one of you privately rather than taking up bandwidth. As usual,I gleaned major bits of wisdom from each of you, especially re heat set forEpon! I have been very satisfied using Shell Epon but likely will tryother glues as retirement nears (8 months!!). Ian's comments, especially,may have addressed what I feel could be the crux of my problem. I supposethat this was my leaning when I finally built up enough nerve to made thepost. Then, in searching the EARLY archives, several long-time contributingrodmakers had a long thread re heat treatment. The topic got around tosuggesting perhaps a 350*F treatment from 30 -60 minutes, although therewas polite disagreement even here. Thanks to everyone who responded.J. Snider from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Oct 23 08:56:07 2000 e9NDu7G10918 JAA15078; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories Subject: Re: "soft" rod tips Jerry,Unless I am missing the point here, I am wondering why you walked awayformthe PU glue? After using Gorilla Glue (PU) on a couple of my own rods andaround the shop extensively for other wood working projects, it is hard toimagine, other than for "purest" concerns, why anyone would go to thetroubleof mixing, heat treating etc with epoxies (i.e., adding extra steps whereerrors can be made).You seemed to indicate that it worked appropriately when you used it,before you switched. PUs are ready to go from the bottle, require no heattreating and are completely waterproof. They can be straightened with heatlike the epoxies without difficulty. Only downside is the foaming, but keep itclean during bind-up with denatured alcohol and you can minimize the trouble. between two 2"x4"s, clamp till dry, soak in water for a couple of weeks thentry and separate them. Stuff is amazing.dws,VP SalesPU GLue, Inc :) - just kidding. Jerry Snider wrote: My first 15 or so rods were built nodeless, flamed, using Titebond II forthe splices and Shell Epon for the strips. Recently I have attempted makingnoded rods, unflamed, using Shell Epon to glue up the strips. I am runninginto a problem of the tips taking a set. Perhaps "set" is not the correctterm here. I can bend the upper 18" or so of the tip on some of them injust about any direction and they will remain at that position. I suspectthat it might be my heat treatment procedure. With the flamed, nodelessrods I followed up the flaming with a heat treatment of ca. 10 minutes at375* F. However, with the latter I was heat treating the half culm sectionsof internodes prior to splitting, i.e. lots of "wood" in the oven. Theblonde, noded rods are heated at ca. 8 min. at 375*F. However, in this caseI am heat treating only the bound, rough planed strips, i.e. very little"wood" in the oven. I have used both a hot air gun oven and a strip heateroven with similar results.Having searched the archives on heat treatments, I find that many of yourecommend heating at 350*F for 30 minutes to ca. an hour. Anycomments,criticisms, suggestions?If this topic is of no interest on a slow weekend, please forgive my takingup bandwidth.J. Snider from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Oct 23 09:26:03 2000 e9NEQ2G12118 Subject: Re: "soft" rod tips Dave,I have never used PU glues thus cannot address this issue. I hope that Iwasn't misleading on this point. I did (and continue) to use Titebond IIwood glue for splices on nodeless rods. I find Epon very easy to use, longshelf life, long working times, doesn't require heat set unless one sodesires (according to Shell). I don't believe that my problem is with theglue (could well be mistaken here and this provides those who stronglyadvocate other glues to get their dibs in), but suspect that it is with theheat treatment protocol. I believe that Ian may have nailed my problem.Perhaps I feel that way simply because I was thinking along those same lines. Initially, it might appear as if I didn't drive out all of the moisture,since the rods with which I didn't have a problem were all flamed prior toheat treatment. However, upon breaking the tip section every 6 inches fromtip to butt, I discovered that the first 18-24" broke cleanly, almost as ifthe cane were brittle. The lower sections broke nicely with long splinters,etc. In checking my notes I find that I cooked the two tips for ca. 12minutes in the heat gun oven at temps varying from 360-385*F. Normally Iuse a mica strip heater element oven. I DO appreciate the recommendations, however, and might try the PU glues inthe near future. Thanks a bunch! J. Snider At 09:59 AM 10/23/2000 -0400, David W. Smith wrote:Jerry,Unless I am missing the point here, I am wondering why you walked awayformthe PU glue? After using Gorilla Glue (PU) on a couple of my own rods andaround the shop extensively for other wood working projects, it is hard toimagine, other than for "purest" concerns, why anyone would go to thetroubleof mixing, heat treating etc with epoxies (i.e., adding extra steps whereerrors can be made).You seemed to indicate that it worked appropriately when you used it,before you switched. PUs are ready to go from the bottle, require no heattreating and are completely waterproof. They can be straightened withheat>like the epoxies without difficulty. Only downside is the foaming, butkeep itclean during bind-up with denatured alcohol and you can minimize thetrouble. between two 2"x4"s, clamp till dry, soak in water for a couple of weeks thentry and separate them. Stuff is amazing.dws,VP SalesPU GLue, Inc :) - just kidding. Jerry Snider wrote: My first 15 or so rods were built nodeless, flamed, using Titebond II forthe splices and Shell Epon for the strips. Recently I have attemptedmakingnoded rods, unflamed, using Shell Epon to glue up the strips. I am runninginto a problem of the tips taking a set. Perhaps "set" is not the correctterm here. I can bend the upper 18" or so of the tip on some of them injust about any direction and they will remain at that position. I suspectthat it might be my heat treatment procedure. With the flamed, nodelessrods I followed up the flaming with a heat treatment of ca. 10 minutes at375* F. However, with the latter I was heat treating the half culmsectionsof internodes prior to splitting, i.e. lots of "wood" in the oven. Theblonde, noded rods are heated at ca. 8 min. at 375*F. However, in thiscaseI am heat treating only the bound, rough planed strips, i.e. very little"wood" in the oven. I have used both a hot air gun oven and a strip heateroven with similar results.Having searched the archives on heat treatments, I find that many of yourecommend heating at 350*F for 30 minutes to ca. an hour. Anycomments,criticisms, suggestions?If this topic is of no interest on a slow weekend, please forgive my takingup bandwidth.J. Snider from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Oct 23 11:02:50 2000 e9NG2oG16970 Subject: Re: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips e9NG2oG16971 Book Buyers,Speaking of books, I was just told about an available copy of "AnglersWorkshop" by L. Lambuth. This is one of the hardest to find, and onlyspiral building, books around. If this information is correct (and Ihaven't checked it out) it's a real steal. I've never dealt with thiscompany but wouldn't have a qualm. If you want it I wouldn't wait long,remember Christmas is only 63 days away. Book # 000099 Price: US$ 90.00 Wally's Books, 964 Ferry Street, SW, Albany, OR, U.S.A., 97321.Phone: 5419260686. Email: wallysbooks@exchangenet.net Best regards,Gary H. from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Oct 23 14:26:59 2000 e9NJQwG26267 Subject: Cracked Varnish I fished this weekend with the first rod I ever refinished, I wrapped itwith Gudebrod nylon (I know, I know! no flames please) and finished withHelmsman spar urethane (the new, current formulation). I've noticed acouple of spots where the varnish is cracked right at the end of theguide feet. I know that a poor grinding job on the feet is largelyresponsible, but I'm wondering if the varnish is to blame as well. Ihear some of the list members saying they switched varnishes whenHelmsman was reformulated, but I don't think I've heard why. Before Irefinish this rod again, I'd like to make sure I'm not wasting my timewith the Helmsman. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 15:06:36 2000 e9NK6UG27927 13:06:30 PDT Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish i've been using helmsman. i know some don't like itbecause it's too shiny. when did this formulationchange happen. i have never heard this. timothy --- James wrote:I fished this weekend with the first rod I everrefinished, I wrapped itwith Gudebrod nylon (I know, I know! no flamesplease) and finished withHelmsman spar urethane (the new, currentformulation). I've noticed acouple of spots where the varnish is cracked rightat the end of theguide feet. I know that a poor grinding job on thefeet is largelyresponsible, but I'm wondering if the varnish is toblame as well. Ihear some of the list members saying they switchedvarnishes whenHelmsman was reformulated, but I don't think I'veheard why. Before Irefinish this rod again, I'd like to make sure I'mnot wasting my timewith the Helmsman. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Oct 23 16:07:13 2000 e9NL7CG00008 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish/ now reformulation I've been using Helmsman that I bought last Spring, so I assume it's the reformulated stuff. The only real difference I noticed was increased drying time. (It has been several years since I used it.) I went to sand after 36 hours (which is something you could do before) and found it balling up like crazy. It needs at least 72 hours before you touch it now. Just what do we mean when we say "reformulated". I assume thatmanufacturers either replace the old solvents with new ones, decrease the total amount of solvents (which would add to drying time), or both. If that's all there is, may be we can just add some of the old solvents back in, like mineral spirits or naphtha? Or maybe some japan drier? --Rich from bob@downandacross.com Mon Oct 23 16:43:46 2000 e9NLhjG01806 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish I switched over from Helmsmen to the Man O War, and I am going right back. I thought the Helmsmen was too shiny, but it is so much better than the spar. Very low maintenance, and a good finish.Bob At 01:06 PM 10/23/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:i've been using helmsman. i know some don't like itbecause it's too shiny. when did this formulationchange happen. i have never heard this. timothy --- James wrote:I fished this weekend with the first rod I everrefinished, I wrapped itwith Gudebrod nylon (I know, I know! no flamesplease) and finished withHelmsman spar urethane (the new, currentformulation). I've noticed acouple of spots where the varnish is cracked rightat the end of theguide feet. I know that a poor grinding job on thefeet is largelyresponsible, but I'm wondering if the varnish is toblame as well. Ihear some of the list members saying they switchedvarnishes whenHelmsman was reformulated, but I don't think I'veheard why. Before Irefinish this rod again, I'd like to make sure I'mnot wasting my timewith the Helmsman. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon Oct 23 18:46:52 2000 e9NNkpG04905 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish Where are you purchasing the Helmsmen ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish I switched over from Helmsmen to the Man O War, and I am going rightback.I thought the Helmsmen was too shiny, but it is so much better than thespar. Very low maintenance, and a good finish.Bob At 01:06 PM 10/23/00 -0700, timothy troester wrote:i've been using helmsman. i know some don't like itbecause it's too shiny. when did this formulationchange happen. i have never heard this. timothy --- James wrote:I fished this weekend with the first rod I everrefinished, I wrapped itwith Gudebrod nylon (I know, I know! no flamesplease) and finished withHelmsman spar urethane (the new, currentformulation). I've noticed acouple of spots where the varnish is cracked rightat the end of theguide feet. I know that a poor grinding job on thefeet is largelyresponsible, but I'm wondering if the varnish is toblame as well. Ihear some of the list members saying they switchedvarnishes whenHelmsman was reformulated, but I don't think I'veheard why. Before Irefinish this rod again, I'd like to make sure I'mnot wasting my timewith the Helmsman. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from rbrand@mmcable.com Mon Oct 23 18:48:21 2000 e9NNmKG05031 Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:48:22 -0500 Subject: Budget Ferrules This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C03D21.E9744460 Hello ListDoes anyone out there know where I can get NS plated brass ferrules. I =need to go cheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all my money on =tools. : ) TIARodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C03D21.E9744460 Hello List NS = brass ferrules. I need to go cheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all = money on tools. : ) TIARodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C03D21.E9744460-- from anglport@con2.com Mon Oct 23 18:50:29 2000 e9NNoSG05196 Subject: Re: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips e9NNoTG05201 Gary,I have a copy of that title, but it's not spiral. It's certainly aninteresting read, but I wouldn't buy it for collector value unless you findit's not a reprint.Art At 12:18 PM 10/23/2000 -0400, Heidt wrote:Book Buyers,Speaking of books, I was just told about an available copy of "AnglersWorkshop" by L. Lambuth. This is one of the hardest to find, and onlyspiral building, books around. If this information is correct (and Ihaven't checked it out) it's a real steal. I've never dealt with thiscompany but wouldn't have a qualm. If you want it I wouldn't wait long,remember Christmas is only 63 days away. Book # 000099 Price: US$ 90.00 Wally's Books, 964 Ferry Street, SW, Albany, OR, U.S.A., 97321.Phone: 5419260686. Email: wallysbooks@exchangenet.net Best regards,Gary H. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Oct 23 19:07:19 2000 e9O07IG05769 Subject: Lathes tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com,RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu List,There has been some interest as of late about lathes on the list. I stopped in to the local second hand tool place today to see what they had in the way of lathes. Right now in stock they have a Logan Lathe 11"X 24" Lathe , horizontal motor drive, 5"- 3 jaw chuck. The lady told me that they have lathes coming in all the time that would be of interest to rod makers and that you can get on their fax list and you can also look at their web site. Thw web site is machinetools.com. The name of the company is Swartz Machinery Company, INC. Telephone 219-289-7783 or 800-747-0320. Theyare located in So. Bend,IN for you guys in Chicago and other surrounding cities. All disclaimers apply.Bret from fquinchat@locl.net Mon Oct 23 19:49:15 2000 e9O0nFG06633 Subject: Skues WBR This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C03D2C.2538AAE0 A friend of mine has a G.E.M. Skues WBR ( Words Best Rod). Does any one =have any info on this rod? Age, line weight, value etc. Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C03D2C.2538AAE0 A friend of mine has a G.E.M.Skues = etc. Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C03D2C.2538AAE0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 23 20:01:07 2000 e9O116G07045 Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:03:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Skues WBR --------------55A17D8113A136AF0DB343C6 Dennis,I have a book on GEM Skues, this rod is mentionedseveral times. I don't have time to look it up atthis point. I am sure someone will come back withthe info, If not get back to me off list nextweek.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.ccom Dennis Bertram wrote: A friend of mine has a G.E.M. Skues WBR ( WordsBest Rod). Does any one have any info on thisrod? Age, line weight, value etc. Dennis Bertram --------------55A17D8113A136AF0DB343C6 Dennis,I have a book on GEM Skues, this rod is mentioned several times. Idon't have time to look it up at this point. I am sure someone will comeback with the info, If not get back to me off list next week. Dennis Bertram wrote: friend Bertram --------------55A17D8113A136AF0DB343C6-- from martinj@aa.net Mon Oct 23 20:58:52 2000 e9O1woG08193 Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:58:47 -0700 Subject: RE: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips The book talks about a method of building spiral rods, not "spiral bound"book. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips Gary,I have a copy of that title, but it's not spiral. It's certainly aninteresting read, but I wouldn't buy it for collector value unless you findit's not a reprint.Art At 12:18 PM 10/23/2000 -0400, Heidt wrote:Book Buyers,Speaking of books, I was just told about an available copy of "AnglersWorkshop" by L. Lambuth. This is one of the hardest to find, and onlyspiral building, books around. If this information is correct (and Ihaven't checked it out) it's a real steal. I've never dealt with thiscompany but wouldn't have a qualm. If you want it I wouldn't wait long,remember Christmas is only 63 days away. Book # 000099 Price: US$ 90.00Wally's Books, 964 Ferry Street, SW, Albany, OR, U.S.A., 97321.Phone: 5419260686. Email: wallysbooks@exchangenet.net Best regards,Gary H. from anglport@con2.com Mon Oct 23 21:08:12 2000 e9O28BG08479 Subject: RE: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips e9O28CG08480 Gotcha!Huh, I feel silly!Art At 06:58 PM 10/23/2000 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote:The book talks about a method of building spiral rods, not "spiral bound"book. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Technology of Fly Rods by Don Phillips Gary,I have a copy of that title, but it's not spiral. It's certainly aninteresting read, but I wouldn't buy it for collector value unless you findit's not a reprint.Art At 12:18 PM 10/23/2000 -0400, Heidt wrote:Book Buyers,Speaking of books, I was just told about an available copy of "AnglersWorkshop" by L. Lambuth. This is one of the hardest to find, and onlyspiral building, books around. If this information is correct (and Ihaven't checked it out) it's a real steal. I've never dealt with thiscompany but wouldn't have a qualm. If you want it I wouldn't wait long,remember Christmas is only 63 days away. Book # 000099 Price: US$ 90.00Wally's Books, 964 Ferry Street, SW, Albany, OR, U.S.A., 97321.Phone: 5419260686. Email: wallysbooks@exchangenet.net Best regards,Gary H. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 23 21:21:46 2000 e9O2LjG08945 Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:21:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules Rodney,You can get the cheap-o ferrules from Jann's Netcraft.But let me warn you -- This is a BAD idea!!!!!! I don'tcare how poor you are, your first few bamboo rods deservethe very best hardware you can find.You wouldn't put an AM only radio in a Cadillac, wouldyou? There's a better analogy, but it doesn't come to mindright now....Go in with a few other guys and put together an order from CSE, or REC, or Bellinger, or someone who sells qualityferrules. Someone posted a note to that effect to the listlast week. You can get the good stuff for about $25-30 perset if you buy in quantity. And the quantities aren't asbig as you would think. Make a few phone calls, and ask thedifferent mfr.'s what their minimum order for quantitydiscounts is. It will be worth your while. Heck, if that doesn't work, let me know, off-list.(Rodney only) I'll sell you enough ferrules for one rod atthe price I paid.... Harry Boyd Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where I can get NSplated brass ferrules. I need to go cheap on my firstcouple of rods. Spent all my money on tools. : ) TIARodneyBrand --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Oct 23 22:35:40 2000 e9O3ZdG10673 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish/ now reformulation Yes, It is a lot slower. I usually add a bit of antique oil finish toHelmsman to slow up the drying and give a more plyable finish. The last canI got was really slowed down. It took over a week before I could rub itout. I couldn't figure that out. I thought it was something I did. But nowthat I think about it I used to have lots of trouble with it sknning overin the can on me. Not a problem anymore. I have been adding mineral spiritsto it to improve drying. It helps some but I think you need more coatsthen. I would have to say that Helmsman gives me the most durable coating Ihave gotten with any finish. I think that making it a bit "longer" in oilhelps make it more resilient.but it could cause problems if you have a client waiting for a rod.-Doug At 05:06 PM 10/23/00 EDT, RMargiotta@aol.com wrote:I've been using Helmsman that I bought last Spring, so I assume it's the reformulated stuff. The only real difference I noticed was increased drying time. (It has been several years since I used it.) I went to sand after36 hours (which is something you could do before) and found it balling up like crazy. It needs at least 72 hours before you touch it now. Just what do we mean when we say "reformulated". I assume thatmanufacturers either replace the old solvents with new ones, decrease the total amount of solvents (which would add to drying time), or both. If that's all there is, may be we can just add some of the old solvents back in, like mineralspirits or naphtha? Or maybe some japan drier? --Rich Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from stpete@netten.net Mon Oct 23 23:14:42 2000 e9O4EfG11605 Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:28:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules --------------71A94ACC99437BF6EB2D155F Will second Harry's sentiments. You do not want to do this. The rodyou are building can last a lifetime... but not if you put second orthird rate ferrules on it. Rick C. Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where I can get NS plated brassferrules. I need to go cheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all mymoney on tools. : ) TIARodney Brand --------------71A94ACC99437BF6EB2D155F The rod you are building can last a lifetime... but not if you put secondor third rate ferrules on it.Rick C.Rodney Brand wrote: Does anyone out there know where I can get NS plated brass ferrules. Ineed to go cheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all my money on tools. Brand --------------71A94ACC99437BF6EB2D155F-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 23:30:45 2000 e9O4UjG12055 21:30:40 PDT Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules rick, if you're going to cut corners don't do ithere! if you don't want to buy ferrules build a 1 pcrod or wait till after the first of the year to buyyour ferrules and cut out a few more sticks. cuttingout and gluing up a couple more blanks is a good idea.you're going to have a buddy that wants a rod. finish him the rod for the price of 2 ferrules. timothy --- Rick Crenshaw wrote:Will second Harry's sentiments. You do not want todo this. The rodyou are building can last a lifetime... but not ifyou put second orthird rate ferrules on it. Rick C. Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where I canget NS plated brassferrules. I need to go cheap on my first couple ofrods. Spent all mymoney on tools. : ) TIARodney Brand ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from seanmcs@ar.com.au Tue Oct 24 00:55:38 2000 e9O5tXG13548 Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:01:27 +1100 Subject: Re: Skues WBR Hello: According to the analysis in T Donald Overfield's "GEM Skues:the Way of a Man with a Trout" (1977), of the six Leonard rods owned bySkues, the one he left to the Flyfishers' Club in London was the WorldsBest Rod. This rod was a nine foot Leonard, and presented to Skues by aclient in 1905. In the same book, a member of the Club's MuseumCommittee gives a seven page description of the "WBR", includingreadings taken across the flats of the three sections at 2 inchintervals. It is described as a rod suitable for nymph fishing, soperhaps originally a bit slow in action, but most likely slower stillafter 40 year's or more use. I wonder if any list member has a scanner and a copy of the book, andcould send through the complete article, as if someone wanted to make acopy, it would be good to have all the details given. I have no scanner.There is also one photograph and one set of drawings depicting the ferrules. Sean Dennis Bertram wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: quoted-printable from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Oct 24 05:33:52 2000 e9OAXpG15986 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules You can get nickel plated brass ferrules from Clemens custom tackle(610-395-5119)in Allentown , PA. I would rethink doing this as in myopinion what makes a good rod from a junker is the quality of theferrules. You will put alot of work in handplaning the rod (40 +or-hours). I wouldn't ruin it by using poor ferrules. Marty Hello ListDoes anyone out there know where I can get NS plated brass ferrules.I need to go cheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all my money ontools. : ) TIARodney Brand from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Oct 24 07:23:45 2000 e9OCNiG17622 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Budget Ferrules This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C03D93.9E8B73C0 Also, Rodney, I think many people might echo the statement that your firstrod may well be one of your best because you will likely be extremelycareful building it. My first rod, a 7 ft 4 wt Granger taper is still oneof the first rods I reach for when heading out to a stream. Tony Young offers very reasonably-priced nickle silver ferrules and theexchange rate between the U.S. and Australian currency will make thepurchase of a set quite affordable. Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:13 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Budget Ferrules Will second Harry's sentiments. You do not want to do this. The rod youare building can last a lifetime... but not if you put second or third rateferrules on it.Rick C. Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where I can get NS plated brassferrules. I need to go cheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all my moneyon tools. : ) TIARodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C03D93.9E8B73C0 Rodney, I think many people might echo the statement that your first rod = well be one of your best because you will likely be extremely careful = it. My first rod, a 7 ft 4 wt Granger taper is still one of the first = reach for when heading out to a stream. Young offers very reasonably-priced nickle silver ferrules and the = between the U.S. and Australian currency will make the purchase of a set = affordable. CrenshawSent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:13 = rbrand@mmcable.comCc: = Re: Budget FerrulesWill second Harry's = anyone = know where I can get NS plated brass ferrules. I need to go cheap on = first couple of rods. Spent all my money on tools. : = Brand ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C03D93.9E8B73C0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Oct 24 07:54:15 2000 e9OCsFG18122 Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:56:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules --------------4CB4F230522A936E65EC0C47 Rodney,I guess I will jump in on this one also. I feltthe same about my "first rod". I am really sorrythat I used cheap hardware. I used one of thechrome plated brass ferrules and after a veryshort time of casting the ferrule startedclicking. Then it got where it would slip apart. Ifinally had to take a large three jaw chuck andtighten it in the female to shrink it some. Thisdid the trick but for how long. The ferrule can bereplaced at a later date but it will be hard toreplace the reel seat and cork. Take the adviceyou have been given here on the list and at leastuse a good ferrule.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where Ican get NS plated brass ferrules. I need to gocheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all mymoney on tools. : ) TIARodney Brand --------------4CB4F230522A936E65EC0C47 Rodney,I guess I will jump in on this one also. I felt the same about my "firstrod". I am really sorry that I used cheap hardware. I used one of the chromeplated brass ferrules and after a very short time of casting the ferrulestarted clicking. Then it got where it would slip apart. I finally hadto take a large three jaw chuck and tighten it in the female to shrinkit some. This did the trick but for how long. The ferrule can be replacedat a later date but it will be hard to replace the reel seat and cork.Take the advice you have been given here on the list and at least use agood ferrule. Rodney Brand wrote: Does anyone out there know where I can get NS plated brass ferrules. Ineed to go cheap on my first couple of rods. Spent all my money on tools. Brand --------------4CB4F230522A936E65EC0C47-- from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Oct 24 08:09:46 2000 e9OD9jG18506 GAA18074 Subject: cleaning epoxy off blackened ferrule tabs Good morning, rodmakers -When I removed the binding string from the ferrules, there were theselittle ridges of epoxy left on the tabs. The set I am presently workingon are blackened (and thanks, again, to everyone for help on how to getthem darker), and so it seemed to me that steel wool would be a bad ideasince it would take off the blackening. I made a little "knife" out ofa scrap piece of bamboo and it did a fair job of cleaning off theresidue without scratching the blackening, so I thought I'd pass that Are there other ingenuities you guys have come up with to address thisproblem of removing the residual epoxy without taking off theblackening? Best regards to all - mac p.s. Oh, yah - FYI: www.wwhardware.com has Roo Clear, a melamine andvinyl adhesive, for anyone interested in trying the color preserver ideathat Ralph sent in. I don't know if it's the same brand he tried, butit sounds like the same generic stuff. It's like $3.85 for an 8 oz.bottle. I redid a Monty Rapidan for a guy, and liked the yellow wraps,but they were a bugger to seal. (Never did, actually - but it was afreebie job and a wallhanger.) Maybe this'll be the magic answer. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Oct 24 08:12:32 2000 e9ODCVG18857 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish Mr. Worf, arm flaming photon torpedoes, lock flame phasers . . . . .But Captain, he doesn't have his flame shields up. He's defenseless.Mr. Worf, I'll thank you to follow orders. Now, arm flamin . . . Gary. Did you use Color Preserver? How much do your wraps protrude pasttheguide foot? Did you only finish the wraps with the urethane, or did you dothe wraps, then dip the whole rod. PU's are usually quite flexible.This was a topic, recently, on the Rodguild BBS. The other possible causeyou mentioned. Martin-Darrell I fished this weekend with the first rod I ever refinished, I wrapped itwith Gudebrod nylon (I know, I know! no flames please) and finished withHelmsman spar urethane (the new, current formulation). I've noticed acouple of spots where the varnish is cracked right at the end of theguide feet. I know that a poor grinding job on the feet is largelyresponsible, but I'm wondering if the varnish is to blame as well. Ihear some of the list members saying they switched varnishes whenHelmsman was reformulated, but I don't think I've heard why. Before Irefinish this rod again, I'd like to make sure I'm not wasting my timewith the Helmsman. Gary H. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Oct 24 08:55:58 2000 e9ODtvG20047 Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules In a message dated 10/23/00 4:51:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rbrand@mmcable.com writes: Rodney, Angler's Workshop, Jann's Netcraft and Dale Clemens all sell NPB ferrules. More money, but better quality would be some NS Cortland ferrules.TonyYoung can akso make NS ferrules a good price. Last option would be to buy some classic NS ferrules made for production rod companies - if you can get the correct sizes that you need. The NPB ferrules are low quality and do NOT come in all 64th's sizes. So you would need to adjust the taper to fit the ferrules. Not a good idea. Cortland ferrules are about $30 - $35 a set and require a bit of messing around with to get them to seat. Tony Young's ferrules would be a better deal unless you want themyesterday. I have some old classic ferrule and so does other list members. Contact me off list if you are interested in this option. Price is between NPB and the the new NS ferrules. Don Burns from piscator@crosswinds.net Tue Oct 24 09:01:08 2000 e9OE17G20247 Subject: Darrell Lee Darrell- My e-mails to you keep getting bounced as undeliverable. Will you please tryto contact me again? Maybe send a phone #. Brian from Canerods@aol.com Tue Oct 24 09:09:12 2000 e9OE9BG20754 Subject: Re: Darrell Lee In a message dated 10/24/00 7:02:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, piscator@crosswinds.net writes: Brian, I can never reach Darrell's email from my ISP - works okay from my AOL account. Try Darrell's web-site for a phone number. http://vfish.net/ Don Burns from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Oct 24 10:04:45 2000 e9OF4iG23194 Subject: wbr This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C03DAA.30985C40 the worlds best rod was one of skues personal rods, a 9ft. leonard, =which he referred to as "wbr" in some of his writings. in the reprint of =The Dry Fly and Fast Water, there is mention of this rod by paul =schullery, who put some correspondence between la branche and skues in =as an appendix. in one of the letters to la branche, dated 1927, skues =thanks him for the gift of a leonard rod and lists the other five he =already owns, commenting favorably on one 9 footer. schullery dates the ="wbr" as a 1905 vintage rod.francis austin also notes the "wbr" as being a 9 ft leonard.mike canazon ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C03DAA.30985C40 one = personal rods, a 9ft. leonard, which he referred to as "wbr" in some of = writings. in the reprint of The Dry Fly and Fast Water, there is mention = rod by paul schullery, who put some correspondence between la branche = in as an appendix. in one of the letters to la branche, dated 1927, = him for the gift of a leonard rod and lists the other five he already = commenting favorably on one 9 footer. schullery dates the "wbr" as a = vintage rod. = "wbr" as being a 9 ft leonard. canazon ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C03DAA.30985C40-- from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Oct 24 10:31:16 2000 e9OFVGG24754 rodmakers Subject: RE: cleaning epoxy off blackened ferrule tabs Try this: after you've glued on the ferrules with epoxy, but immediatelyBEFORE you bind with string, wipe off the excess epoxy with a rag soaked invinegar (vinegar is an excellent epoxy solvent that is obviously non-toxic).Then bind with string. When you take the string off, you'll have little orno hardened epoxy to remove. Chris o -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 6:09 AM Subject: cleaning epoxy off blackened ferrule tabs Good morning, rodmakers -When I removed the binding string from the ferrules, there weretheselittle ridges of epoxy left on the tabs. The set I am presentlyworkingon are blackened (and thanks, again, to everyone for help on how togetthem darker), and so it seemed to me that steel wool would be a bad since it would take off the blackening. I made a little "knife" outofa scrap piece of bamboo and it did a fair job of cleaning off theresidue without scratching the blackening, so I thought I'd passthat idea along. (probably heard it here, but forgot who and when!) Are there other ingenuities you guys have come up with to addressthisproblem of removing the residual epoxy without taking off theblackening? Best regards to all - mac p.s. Oh, yah - FYI: www.wwhardware.com has Roo Clear, a melamineandvinyl adhesive, for anyone interested in trying the color preserver that Ralph sent in. I don't know if it's the same brand he tried,butit sounds like the same generic stuff. It's like $3.85 for an 8 oz.bottle. I redid a Monty Rapidan for a guy, and liked the yellowwraps,but they were a bugger to seal. (Never did, actually - but it was afreebie job and a wallhanger.) Maybe this'll be the magic answer. from Oozakgpt@aol.com Tue Oct 24 12:24:11 2000 e9OHOAG01547 Subject: Helmsman Spar question consistency out of the can thin enough? from the post's I've read it seems your waiting 3 days before sanding.Are any of you using a abrasive compound to dull the final coat?I'm getting ready to finish my first rod and after MANY hour's of work I want the best finish possible with the Helmsman!TIA Greg T. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Oct 24 13:35:48 2000 e9OIZlG05433 Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:35:42 -0700 Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:35:42 GMT Subject: Re: cleaning epoxy off blackened ferrule tabs FILETIME=[36BDB310:01C03DE9] From: Ralph MacKenzie Subject: cleaning epoxy off blackened ferrule tabsDate: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:08:37 -0400 Good morning, rodmakers -When I removed the binding string from the ferrules, there were theselittle ridges of epoxy left on the tabs. The set I am presently workingon are blackened (and thanks, again, to everyone for help on how to getthem darker), and so it seemed to me that steel wool would be a bad ideasince it would take off the blackening. I made a little "knife" out ofa scrap piece of bamboo and it did a fair job of cleaning off theresidue without scratching the blackening, so I thought I'd pass that Are there other ingenuities you guys have come up with to address thisproblem of removing the residual epoxy without taking off theblackening? Best regards to all - mac p.s. Oh, yah - FYI: www.wwhardware.com has Roo Clear, a melamine andvinyl adhesive, for anyone interested in trying the color preserver ideathat Ralph sent in. I don't know if it's the same brand he tried, butit sounds like the same generic stuff. It's like $3.85 for an 8 oz.bottle. I redid a Monty Rapidan for a guy, and liked the yellow wraps,but they were a bugger to seal. (Never did, actually - but it was afreebie job and a wallhanger.) Maybe this'll be the magic answer. I set the ferrules, clean them up, pin them, dress the slides and blue them after they are done.A.J.thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 13:56:40 2000 e9OIudG06802 11:56:39 PDT Subject: Re: Helmsman Spar question i keep it about 80*f and don't thin it when i firstopen the can. thinning it does cause it to dry faster it depends some on how much you are going to sand. ifi am going to just steel wool it lightly i don't haveto wait three days. timothy --- Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: you thinning it?Or is the consistency out of the can thin enough? from thepost's I've read it seems your waiting 3 days before sanding.Are any of youusing a abrasive compound to dull the final coat?I'm getting ready to finishmy first rod and after MANY hour's of work I want the best finish possiblewith the Helmsman!TIA Greg T. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Oct 24 14:59:10 2000 e9OJx4G11366 Subject: Re: Helmsman Spar question This is exactly my experience as well. I wait at least a week before polishing the top coat. --Rich from jteft@frontiernet.net Tue Oct 24 17:14:32 2000 e9OMEVG21122 claiming to be "jteft" 2000 Subject: Don Phillips This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C03DE6.1C3FF5A0 I know Don Phillips thru cyber world and I'am sure if you have questions =about his book he would be glad to communicate with you. HIs address is ....tropangler@cyberisle.com the last time I knew. Jim T ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C03DE6.1C3FF5A0 I know Don Phillips thru cyber world and I'am sure = questions about his book he would be glad to communicate with =you. HIs address is ....tropangler@cyberisle.com= the last time I knew. Jim T ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C03DE6.1C3FF5A0-- from owen@davies.mv.com Tue Oct 24 17:19:51 2000 e9OMJoG21485 Subject: Scraper plane I was just looking through my new Japan Woodworker catalogand noticed what appears to be a small -- about the size of a#2 smoother -- scraper plane. They call it a sole conditioningplane, or dai naoshi kanna. No doubt it's a long way from beinga Lie-Nielsen #212, but for $56.65 it seemed like an interestingalternative. Is anyone here familiar with this plane? If so, howdoes it work? Thanks. Owen Davies from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Tue Oct 24 18:05:30 2000 e9ON5TG23004 Subject: Montague Flash Reel Seat Parts Needed I need a hood and screw ring for a Monty Flash with a real beatiful redplastic down locking reel seat. Thanks from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Oct 24 19:27:08 2000 e9P0R7G24933 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: Japanese planes This issue of Woodworking magazine has an in depth article about Japanesewood-bodied planes. Interestingly, the author says he uses Western- typemetal planes for rough work but Japanese planes that plane on the pullstroke rather than the push stroke for fine, detail work. I'd say finalplaning is pretty close to the most detail-critical work a plane could beasked to perform. Has anyone tried these in building bamboo rods? Richard from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Oct 25 05:01:57 2000 e9PA1sG02792 e9PA1jx73459; Subject: Re: cleaning epoxy off blackened ferrule tabs Organization: vet Ralph If you follow these threads you will probably know that I blue withphotographic fixer and hardener, and to this point I have had very goodresults with that technique. If I find that I have inadvertently removed any bluing in the later processsteps, I do exactly what Alan does, though he uses Payne Blue to do the job,and I swab it on carefully with a Q-tip before binding on the rings. Photofixer is an acid solution, doesn't appear to be do any harm to the bamboo,and is quick and durable. You could get pretty fussy and neutralise it withan alkali, but I just rinse it well in running water. Perfect? Probably not, but it works well. Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: cleaning epoxy off blackened ferrule tabs Good morning, rodmakers -When I removed the binding string from the ferrules, there were theselittle ridges of epoxy left on the tabs. The set I am presently workingon are blackened (and thanks, again, to everyone for help on how to getthem darker), and so it seemed to me that steel wool would be a bad ideasince it would take off the blackening. I made a little "knife" out ofa scrap piece of bamboo and it did a fair job of cleaning off theresidue without scratching the blackening, so I thought I'd pass that Are there other ingenuities you guys have come up with to address thisproblem of removing the residual epoxy without taking off theblackening? Best regards to all - mac p.s. Oh, yah - FYI: www.wwhardware.com has Roo Clear, a melamine andvinyl adhesive, for anyone interested in trying the color preserver ideathat Ralph sent in. I don't know if it's the same brand he tried, butit sounds like the same generic stuff. It's like $3.85 for an 8 oz.bottle. I redid a Monty Rapidan for a guy, and liked the yellow wraps,but they were a bugger to seal. (Never did, actually - but it was afreebie job and a wallhanger.) Maybe this'll be the magic answer. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Oct 25 05:11:48 2000 e9PABlG03015 0700 Subject: Look out Mtn Home Friends,I'm on my way out the door (in a coupla hous), headed need to be handled contact Rick Crenshaw or Charlie Currotoday (Wednesday).We begin our gathering with Pizza at 6:00 Thursday, andconclude with a swap and sell time Saturday afternoon at4:00. I wish you all could be there, and will make suresomeone gives you a little report next week. Harry from caneman@clnk.com Wed Oct 25 08:28:58 2000 e9PDSvG05893 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:22:15 -0500 Subject: shop safety This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0808_01C03E5C.DA8163C0 Well, you know Murphy's law, right... well, around here we refer to it = I have worked with power tools most all of my life. I do tend to =neglect shop safety a bit sometimes... familiarity breeds contempt, ya =know, or at least it breeds too relaxed of an attitude. Anyways, =yesterday, I was getting ready for SRG, and needed to cut up some reel =seat filler blanks for the silent auction. I cut these for myself and =others and probably cut up a few hundred a year, and no problems so far. =Well, I was cutting on a huge block of beautiful burl maple and left a =4" x 4" x 3" chunck of it sitting on the saw table with the saw =running... Do any of you remember those little football games we had =when we were kids where the metal table vibrated and that was what moved=the men? Well, the same thing can happen to a piece of wood on a table =saw, but instead of a touchdown, when that piece of wood vibrates over =and hits the blade, it's more like a field goal! Just imagine my ears =were the uprights and figure the saw got three points... a little low = I was very fortunate not to have gotten hurt badly. the block of =wood hit me in the left jaw and did make me a bit uglier than I was =before, but no major parts, such as teeth, bone, huge chunks of hide, =etc, are missing. I think I was lucky because this was a pretty big =piece of wood. Had it been smaller, it would have launched a LOT faster =and probably done a lot of damage. As it is, the guys at the SRG are =gonna have to look at a few cuts and pretty good sized lump on my = Reason I posted this is... don't do like me and get in such a =routine about doing things that you do stupid things around power =equipment. I've been running a table saw since I was probably in my =early teens and NEVER had a piece of wood kick back and hit me, so I =guess I took it for granted that it would never happen. Well, it DID =and it WILL... and if you leave a piece of wood sitting on that saw, =then one of these days it'll find its way over to that 10" blade and =shoot across the shop like a rocket... and believe me, you can NOT =duck... flying wood is very very very fast. Later,scarface ------=_NextPart_000_0808_01C03E5C.DA8163C0 Well, you know Murphy's law, right... well, around here we refer to = neglect shop safety a bit sometimes... familiarity breeds contempt, ya = getting ready for SRG, and needed to cut up some reel seat filler blanks = block of beautiful burl maple and left a 4" x 4" x 3" = it sitting on the saw table with the saw running... Do any of you = little football games we had when we were kids where the metal table = piece of wood on a table saw, but instead of a touchdown, when that = wood vibrates over and hits the blade, it's more like a field = imagine my ears were the uprights and figure the saw got three points... = uglier than I was before, but no major parts, such as teeth, bone, huge = are gonna have to look at a few cuts and pretty good sized lump on my = such a routine about doing things that you do stupid things around power = teens and NEVER had a piece of wood kick back and hit me, so I guess I = you leave a piece of wood sitting on that saw, then one of these days = its way over to that 10" blade and shoot across the shop like a = fast. Later,scarface ------=_NextPart_000_0808_01C03E5C.DA8163C0-- from newmin@ptdprolog.net Wed Oct 25 08:58:38 2000 e9PDwcG06967 Subject: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03E6B.D78AE240 Greetings,Does anyone have any experence with the Dickerson 7613 taper? If so =how do you you like it? Thanks for your time.Newmin ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03E6B.D78AE240 Greetings, the = 7613 taper? If so how do you you like it? Thanks for your time. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C03E6B.D78AE240-- from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Oct 25 09:42:52 2000 e9PEgpG08774 Subject: Sawing vs. splitting As an absolute beginner (five years after I first became interestedin bamboo rod-building!), I'm still gathering information. One partof rod-building that seems to be pretty much universally acceptedis the virtue of splitting one's bamboo, rather than sawing out thecrude splines. My impression is that this is a tribute to everyone'slove of craftsmanship, and on that basis I have to agree. Also, sawingleaves a bunch of that expensive reed as dust on the floor. Splittingconserves material. But this still leaves me curious: Has anyoneever built two otherwise identical rods, one from split splines andone from sawn, and compared the results? If not, I may have totry it someday. (Preferably someday after I get a set of forms built!) Owen Davies from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Oct 25 10:31:52 2000 e9PFVpG10853 Subject: RE: Helmsman Spar question I'm no expert, having re-finished a small handful of rods this way. Buthere goes. I use a brush, rather than dipping, for two reasons; (1) I'mcomfortable with a brush, having finished numerous woodworking projectsthis way, and (2) I'm too darn lazy to set up a dip tube. I am nowgetting my best results by thinning Helmsman with just a little bit ofmineral spirits. I do this to get the consistency I like rather thanout of any understanding of the chemistry/drying time. A slightlythinner formulation glasses out better for me. One of the things I likeabout varnishes in general, and PU in particular, is that it dries hardenough that flaws can be rubbed out without eliminating the finish. Onmy current rebuild project, I'm dong 4 coats on the blank. The firstthree coats were aggressively rubbed with 0000 steel wool, the fourthwill be lightly rubbed, just enough to remove the sheen. Then I'll wrapthe rod, put at least two coats just on the wraps, finish up with one ortwo coats on the whole rod. Depending on how much I rub out, I couldend up with way too much varnish on the rod, so I will be quite carefulin this regard. Final coat will be rubbed out with mineral oil androttenstone (the mineral oil is a new one for me, I generally use water,but thought I'd try this out) to a satin finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 11:24 AM Subject: Helmsman Spar question is the consistency out of the can thin enough? from the post's I've read itseems your waiting 3 days before sanding.Are any of you using a abrasivecompound to dull the final coat?I'm getting ready to finish my first rod andafter MANY hour's of work I want the best finish possible with theHelmsman!TIA Greg T. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Oct 25 16:08:28 2000 e9PL8RG23062 +0100 Subject: Agate vs Agatine Right chaps, here's a question for you ;Whats the difference between agate and agatine?Furthermore what are the relative advantages and disadvantages of each? Regards to you all.........Paul from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 25 16:30:28 2000 e9PLURG23889 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:32:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Agate vs Agatine e9PLUSG23890 Agate is rock. The agatine I've used is red glass. The agatine is veryconsistent in color and a more vivid color then the typical agate. The agatineI've bought was red in color. Agate varies in color with striations and such, since it is a natural product. The last dozen agate stripper guides I bought ranged in color from whiteclear, to orange/white clear mix, to pale orange, to bright orangeapproaching red. I've also used dark brown agate's, light brown agate's,smoke colored agate. You get the point. Color varies. Agatine is usually about $5.00 cheaper. The advantage in agate for me is that it is a natural product and that alwaysgets my attention. I can't say if agate is more or less prone to breakagethan agatine. The only case of breakage I've had was a crack in an agatinestripper. I think most people that are concerned with breakage wouldn't use eitherone, but would settle on Mildrum style or something like that. I did drop a "Perfect" style very early J.W. Young and Sons reel on the streetonce, and the agate line guide cracked. But what could I expect from such amoronic act. I'm still trying to determine my punishment for that incident. Maybe bamboo strips under the fingernails. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu "paul.blakley" 10/25/00 02:07PM >>>Right chaps, here's a question for you ;Whats the difference between agate and agatine?Furthermore what are the relative advantages and disadvantages of each? Regards to you all.........Paul from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Oct 25 17:42:58 2000 e9PMgvG26058 Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Owen - I doubt that you would notice any difference in feel or casting ability between a rod with sawed strips, and one with split strips. In theory, a split rod should be a bit more resistant to breakage because of the straighter grain, but given the reinforcement a cross grain strip receives once it is glued up, I doubt that the difference is great. The reason most hand planers use split strips is that a sawn strip is too difficult to plane. A sawn strip will almost always be cross grained at the nodes, and the plane will cause tear out in those areas. Those who use milling machines or bevelers will not have problems with sawn strips, which is why many production rodmakers used them. Most hand planers, myself included, take pride in long straight power fibers in their rods. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 25 17:48:58 2000 e9PMmvG26269 Subject: Re: Agate vs Agatine In a message dated 10/25/00 2:09:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Paul, The agate rings used in the strippers on the old classic rods was made in Austria before WWI and either the company was damaged or trade was cutoff and so glass (agateen) was used as a replacement. I guess it was alsocheaper? Think of this as an early example of what happens when trade is cut off. The bamboo embargo of the Korean War era brought about "glass" rods as a replacement too. Both types are hard to find today, and expensive also, due to the small market demand. Today they are all cottage industry and labor dictates price. Hence it is easier to buy new agate guides than agateen bcause the cotwould be nearly the same. Several list members make or sell new agate guides. However, small supplies of old guides exist and I'd guess most of these are agateen. I'd use agate for a special rod else go with a chrome or modern stripper for the other rods. Leave the agateen for use in restorations of classics. Don Burns from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Oct 25 18:42:02 2000 e9PNg1G27195 Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Owen - I doubt that you would notice any difference in feel or castingability between a rod with sawed strips, and one with split strips. Intheory, a split rod should be a bit more resistant to breakage because ofthestraighter grain, but given the reinforcement a cross grain strip receivesonce it is glued up, I doubt that the difference is great.The reason most hand planers use split strips is that a sawn strip is toodifficult to plane. A sawn strip will almost always be cross grained atthenodes, and the plane will cause tear out in those areas. Those who usemilling machines or bevelers will not have problems with sawn strips,whichis why many production rodmakers used them. Most hand planers, myselfincluded, take pride in long straight power fibers in their rods. Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking of when I mentioned people'slove of craftsmanship. Fair enough. Thanks. Owen from piscator@crosswinds.net Wed Oct 25 21:28:43 2000 e9Q2ShG01245 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Agate vs Agatine I'd disagree. Agate is a nice, flint hard substance that is a natural productand each piece will be unique. Go look at Golden Witch's agates and agateenpages. Agateen is a glass (not sure which kind of glass) and is consistentin color, and is also very hard. Both will crack if abused, as has beenmentioned I like agateen because of the color as much as anything. I like the littlebit of schmaltz that that small flash of red gives me. I suppose if I couldfind a good supply of blood red agate I'd use that, but I can't and agateenworks just fine. Agateen. It's a good thing (and not just for restorations anymore.) Brian In a message dated 10/25/00 2:09:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Whats the difference between agate and agatine?Furthermore what are the relative advantages and disadvantages of each? Regards to you all.........Paul Paul, The agate rings used in the strippers on the old classic rods was made in Austria before WWI and either the company was damaged or trade was cutoff and so glass (agateen) was used as a replacement. I guess it was alsocheaper? Think of this as an early example of what happens when trade is cut off.The bamboo embargo of the Korean War era brought about "glass" rods as a replacement too. Both types are hard to find today, and expensive also, due to the small market demand. Today they are all cottage industry and labor dictatesprice. Hence it is easier to buy new agate guides than agateen bcause thecotwould be nearly the same. Several list members make or sell new agate guides. However, small supplies of old guides exist and I'd guess most of these are agateen. I'd use agate for a special rod else go with a chrome or modern stripper for the other rods. Leave the agateen for use in restorations of classics. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 25 23:53:49 2000 e9Q4rmG03626 Subject: Re: Agate vs Agatine rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 10/25/00 7:29:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, piscator@crosswinds.net writes: Brian, I guess I wasn't very clear. I have nothing against agateen guides. I meant that the efforts to find good supply of agateen guides, for someone starting out, would be equal to if not more than finding a supply of agate guides and therefore not worth the extra effort. Unless you like red guides. OBTW, I had Russ make up a small bunch of (red) agateen stripper guides afew years ago (pre-PA) out of a supply of agateen tiptops that I found. So I happen to like them too. Don from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Oct 26 05:48:47 2000 e9QAmjG07342 e9QAmZx87427; Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Organization: vet Owen Just a short addendum to Bob Nunley's note on shop safety - I have heardTony Young get pretty eloquent on the practical difficulty of sawing bamboostrips with total safety, and Tony is a pretty experienced man withwoodworking tools. I now use Bob Nunley's method of splitting with my hands, and theadvantagesare (1) you waste as near to NO cane as makes no difference & (2) it isabout three or four times as fast and easy as any other method I have evertried. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, and thenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sawing vs. splitting As an absolute beginner (five years after I first became interestedin bamboo rod-building!), I'm still gathering information. One partof rod-building that seems to be pretty much universally acceptedis the virtue of splitting one's bamboo, rather than sawing out thecrude splines. My impression is that this is a tribute to everyone'slove of craftsmanship, and on that basis I have to agree. Also, sawingleaves a bunch of that expensive reed as dust on the floor. Splittingconserves material. But this still leaves me curious: Has anyoneever built two otherwise identical rods, one from split splines andone from sawn, and compared the results? If not, I may have totry it someday. (Preferably someday after I get a set of forms built!) Owen Davies from grau@buchlang.com Thu Oct 26 06:58:38 2000 e9QBwbG08006 +0200 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Commercial sawing & splitting Peter and Gang i tried both - sawing and handsplitting. from commercial aspects -sawing ittime saving ( but not material-saving) an cause time is for business-menalwaysan important thing...yes, you know *lol*. Bamboo as very hard materialcan ruinsaw-blades in short time, and new blades costs also. Hand-splitting, for some people it works very fine and also quick - it`sapersonal thing and experience also. saw (letsomeone saw). I tried both, making "sawed" an "handsplitted" rods. And from mypersonal opinion - the difference betwen the rods are very small. One other thing - many - mabye most of the great brands in the past sawher canealso, and - they had and have many friends of her rods. regards Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from rens.oosthoek@wxs.nl Thu Oct 26 07:59:26 2000 e9QCxMG08853 ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:59:17 +0200 Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Dear Peter, Could you tell me where to find the trick of splitting cane with your(bare?) hands. Besides, I must have overlooked Steve McQueen In the ButchCassidy film. Yours, Rens Owen Just a short addendum to Bob Nunley's note on shop safety - I have heardTony Young get pretty eloquent on the practical difficulty of sawingbamboostrips with total safety, and Tony is a pretty experienced man withwoodworking tools. I now use Bob Nunley's method of splitting with my hands, and theadvantagesare (1) you waste as near to NO cane as makes no difference & (2) it isabout three or four times as fast and easy as any other method I haveevertried. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, andthenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "Owen Davies" Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 1:42 AMSubject: Sawing vs. splitting As an absolute beginner (five years after I first became interestedin bamboo rod-building!), I'm still gathering information. One partof rod-building that seems to be pretty much universally acceptedis the virtue of splitting one's bamboo, rather than sawing out thecrude splines. My impression is that this is a tribute to everyone'slove of craftsmanship, and on that basis I have to agree. Also, sawingleaves a bunch of that expensive reed as dust on the floor. Splittingconserves material. But this still leaves me curious: Has anyoneever built two otherwise identical rods, one from split splines andone from sawn, and compared the results? If not, I may have totry it someday. (Preferably someday after I get a set of forms built!) Owen Davies from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 26 08:22:46 2000 e9QDMhG09971 Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Eloquent...possibly a polite means of describing what I anatomicaly thinkof it. Anybody even thinking of bandsawing should at least try the Bob Nunleymethod Peter is suggesting even if it's just to say you tried.Initially I thought the idea of splitting if you had a bandsaw was crazy. Imean, turn on the band saw and rip the culms easy. Nope.You have to saw quick thick splines so you can make up for the wonderingaround you need to do because the culm isn't what you'd call regular asyou'd get with wood. You also have to take into account the binding of thesaw blade when the bamboo moves around after the kerf.Now, I like my bandsaw and sure bandsawing assuming you don't mind thewastage and extra planing is easier than the way a lot of people aresplitting bamboo by driving a knife through the culm but after dong battlewith a culm using the bandsaw I sat on my bench, surveyed the result anddeclared the idea (expletive deleted)!I then litteraly walked back to my computer and re read Peter's essay onBob's hand splitting method, armed myself with a knife and returned to theworkshop, knife in hand.20 mins latter I had 2 culms completley split and the splines with very fewexceptions needed any preperation beyond flattening the nodes using mygrinder. I could control the width of the splines so well I could evensplit very thin splines for tips. Because you can control the width so wellyou don't need as much planing and as I mentioned the splines are virtuallystraight even at the nodes. Give it a go, you'll be surprised. Tony At 09:45 PM 10/26/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:Owen Just a short addendum to Bob Nunley's note on shop safety - I have heardTony Young get pretty eloquent on the practical difficulty of sawing bamboostrips with total safety, and Tony is a pretty experienced man withwoodworking tools. I now use Bob Nunley's method of splitting with my hands, and theadvantagesare (1) you waste as near to NO cane as makes no difference & (2) it isabout three or four times as fast and easy as any other method I have evertried. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, andthenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "Owen Davies" Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 1:42 AMSubject: Sawing vs. splitting As an absolute beginner (five years after I first became interestedin bamboo rod-building!), I'm still gathering information. One partof rod-building that seems to be pretty much universally acceptedis the virtue of splitting one's bamboo, rather than sawing out thecrude splines. My impression is that this is a tribute to everyone'slove of craftsmanship, and on that basis I have to agree. Also, sawingleaves a bunch of that expensive reed as dust on the floor. Splittingconserves material. But this still leaves me curious: Has anyoneever built two otherwise identical rods, one from split splines andone from sawn, and compared the results? If not, I may have totry it someday. (Preferably someday after I get a set of forms built!) Owen Davies /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from owen@davies.mv.com Thu Oct 26 08:28:51 2000 e9QDSoG10242 Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Just a short addendum to Bob Nunley's note on shop safety - I have heardTony Young get pretty eloquent on the practical difficulty of sawingbamboostrips with total safety, and Tony is a pretty experienced man withwoodworking tools. If I ever try sawing, I'll build a tablesaw jig with an indexing wheel tohold itfirmly in place, use a really fine-kerf blade, and leave everything in onepiece until all the slits are done, then break the splines away from thenodemembranes. I now use Bob Nunley's method of splitting with my hands, and theadvantagesare (1) you waste as near to NO cane as makes no difference & (2) it isabout three or four times as fast and easy as any other method I haveevertried. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, andthenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Actually, that's how I'll probably do it. My interest in sawing was mostlybecauseit seems to be such an article of faith that splitting is the way to go.Yet I've seen noreal evidence that it really produces a better rod, and a lot of fine rodmakers seemto have sawn their culms. Even now, the only sound argument I've seen forthesuperiority of splitting is that having the power fibers as continuous aspossiblemakes for a prettier rod. On the other hand, unless you are trying to makea living from volume production, what more do you need? Thanks for the advice. Owen from owen@davies.mv.com Thu Oct 26 08:32:53 2000 e9QDWrG10574 Subject: Re: Commercial sawing & splitting Among other comments, Stefan Grau said, saw (letsomeone saw). I tried both, making "sawed" an "handsplitted" rods. And from mypersonal opinion - the difference betwen the rods are very small. Thanks, Stefan. That kind of hands-on experience is what I was looking for.I'll probably split anyway, but it's interesting to have hard evidenceaboutthese things. Owen from grau@buchlang.com Thu Oct 26 08:34:57 2000 e9QDYuG10793 Organization: Lang Info Access "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Give it a go, you'll be surprised...... Yes - and where can i (we) find these info about the "nunley- splitting"method? regards Stefan Tony Young schrieb: Eloquent...possibly a polite means of describing what I anatomicaly thinkof it.Anybody even thinking of bandsawing should at least try the Bob Nunleymethod Peter is suggesting even if it's just to say you tried.Initially I thought the idea of splitting if you had a bandsaw was crazy. Imean, turn on the band saw and rip the culms easy. Nope.You have to saw quick thick splines so you can make up for the wonderingaround you need to do because the culm isn't what you'd call regular asyou'd get with wood. You also have to take into account the binding of thesaw blade when the bamboo moves around after the kerf.Now, I like my bandsaw and sure bandsawing assuming you don't mind thewastage and extra planing is easier than the way a lot of people aresplitting bamboo by driving a knife through the culm but after dong battlewith a culm using the bandsaw I sat on my bench, surveyed the result anddeclared the idea (expletive deleted)!I then litteraly walked back to my computer and re read Peter's essay onBob's hand splitting method, armed myself with a knife and returned to theworkshop, knife in hand.20 mins latter I had 2 culms completley split and the splines with very fewexceptions needed any preperation beyond flattening the nodes using mygrinder. I could control the width of the splines so well I could evensplit very thin splines for tips. Because you can control the width so wellyou don't need as much planing and as I mentioned the splines are virtuallystraight even at the nodes. Give it a go, you'll be surprised. Tony At 09:45 PM 10/26/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:Owen Just a short addendum to Bob Nunley's note on shop safety - I have heardTony Young get pretty eloquent on the practical difficulty of sawingbamboostrips with total safety, and Tony is a pretty experienced man withwoodworking tools. I now use Bob Nunley's method of splitting with my hands, and theadvantagesare (1) you waste as near to NO cane as makes no difference & (2) it isabout three or four times as fast and easy as any other method I haveevertried. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, andthenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "Owen Davies" Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 1:42 AMSubject: Sawing vs. splitting As an absolute beginner (five years after I first became interestedin bamboo rod-building!), I'm still gathering information. One partof rod-building that seems to be pretty much universally acceptedis the virtue of splitting one's bamboo, rather than sawing out thecrude splines. My impression is that this is a tribute to everyone'slove of craftsmanship, and on that basis I have to agree. Also, sawingleaves a bunch of that expensive reed as dust on the floor. Splittingconserves material. But this still leaves me curious: Has anyoneever built two otherwise identical rods, one from split splines andone from sawn, and compared the results? If not, I may have totry it someday. (Preferably someday after I get a set of forms built!) Owen Davies /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Thu Oct 26 08:36:09 2000 e9QDa8G10944 Subject: RE: Japanese planes This issue of Woodworking magazine has an in depth article about Japanesewood-bodied planes. Interestingly, the author says he uses Western- typemetal planes for rough work but Japanese planes that plane on the pullstroke rather than the push stroke for fine, detail work. I'd say finalplaning is pretty close to the most detail-critical work a plane could beasked to perform. Has anyone tried these in building bamboo rods? Richard Richard, I am using Japanese wood bodied plane for roughing.To utilize pull stroke plane effectively, it was needed tohold a strip by something other than hand. So I am holding the strip forroughing tooperate the Japanese plane(grooved). It will be a little hard to use pull stroke plane by holding astrip by another hand.Usually we stroke Japanese plane using both of hands.Push stroke plane like Stanley is mucheasier to plane a strip by one hand with holding a strip by another hand forfinal planing, IMHO. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Oct 26 08:42:19 2000 e9QDgIG11370 GAA27468 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, "'Canerods@aol.com'" Subject: RE: Agate vs Agatine D. Whitehead is the maker of the agate and agetine guides that Russ sells.Russ has some antique agate tip tops. No yata yata yata........... Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 9:53 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Agate vs Agatine In a message dated 10/25/00 7:29:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, piscator@crosswinds.net writes: Agateen. It's a good thing (and not just for restorations anymore.) Brian >> Brian, I guess I wasn't very clear. I have nothing against agateen guides. I meant that the efforts to find good supply of agateen guides, for someonestarting out, would be equal to if not more than finding a supply of agate guides and therefore not worth the extra effort. Unless you like red guides. OBTW, I had Russ make up a small bunch of (red) agateen stripper guides afew years ago (pre-PA) out of a supply of agateen tiptops that I found. So I happen to like them too. Don from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Oct 26 08:45:15 2000 e9QDjFG11609 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Agate vs Agatine One source of agateene guides I have used is old bait casting rods.Particularly some of the Heddon steel rods. The "Pal" models have alllagateen guides. A small sacrafice for the good of several bamboo rods. -Doug At 12:53 AM 10/26/00 EDT, Canerods@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 10/25/00 7:29:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, piscator@crosswinds.net writes: Agateen. It's a good thing (and not just for restorations anymore.) Brian >> Brian, I guess I wasn't very clear. I have nothing against agateen guides. I meant that the efforts to find good supply of agateen guides, for someonestarting out, would be equal to if not more than finding a supply of agate guides and therefore not worth the extra effort. Unless you like red guides. OBTW, I had Russ make up a small bunch of (red) agateen stripper guides afew years ago (pre-PA) out of a supply of agateen tiptops that I found. So I happen to like them too. Don Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 26 08:46:43 2000 e9QDkgG11793 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Japanese planes Hello Max, Nice to hear from you. It has been a while. I never hold a strip with myfree hand. I find I can control the planing MUCH better by holding thestrip by the butt section using a spring clamp. Using a spring clamp, itwould be possible to use the Japanese wood planes with both hands on thepull stroke. Richard I am using Japanese wood bodied plane for roughing.To utilize pull stroke plane effectively, it was needed tohold a strip by something other than hand. So I am holdingthe strip forroughing use both handstooperate the Japanese plane(grooved). It will be a little hard to use pull stroke plane by holding astrip by another hand.Usually we stroke Japanese plane using both of hands.Push stroke plane like Stanley is mucheasier to plane a strip by one hand with holding a strip byanother hand forfinal planing, IMHO. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from grau@buchlang.com Thu Oct 26 08:55:42 2000 e9QDtfG12345 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Planes - not to expensive for beginners Some planes made by Kunz - a german manufacterer - some are cheapcopiesof stanley`s: http://www.fine-tools.com/einhand.htm Another, and by rodmakers in the german-speaking regiuon used is the one from RALI, a swiss product - very simple but very good. I know from anearlier member of this list - Alex from Austria - who loved theRali- Plane:http://www.samvaz.ch/english/produits.htm - the plane is the blue one onthis site. regards Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 26 09:06:38 2000 e9QE6ZG12859 Subject: Splitting - The Bob Method Having spoken to Peter about resending messages in general on the list I'msure he wont mind my resubmitting his message as it was intended for thelist in the first place.I'm going to ask Peter if I can put this in my page. It's just about asgood a description on how to do something as you'll ever read.If you try this you'll forget the bandsaw, table saw, chisels, prayers,threats and all other means of implied or actual violence resulting fromsplitting bamboo. Tony /* Below is Peter's entire message. */ /*******************************************************************************************************/ OK Stuart, here we go Halve your culm pretty much as usual, and knock out the internodal dams. Ifyou are in the habit of filing the nodes at this point, go ahead.Personally, I find it easier and tidier to do that when the strips are dowmto 1/2" or so, as I seem to cause less collateral damage to the cane oneither side of the node that way. Mount the half culm in a wood vice with the curved, convex, enamelled sidefacing upward. Mount it in such a way that there are only about 6- 10"protruding from the vice toward you. Do not overtighten the vice - you wantit just firm enough to stop slippage of the culm toward you, and to preventrotation in the vice while you are working on the job. Do not overtighten tothe point where you crack or even stress the culm. Take your preferred weapon ( you may very well call it a "froe" but I callit a bloody old broken butcher's knife which I have ground down to a sort ofvery flat double edged chisel sort of thingy ) and a mallet. Very carefully measure the midpoint ( or the 1/3 point or whatever youchoose, but I think it's easier to halve it; but I did both, and both workedwell ) and start the split, making certain that it's vertical, by tappingthe splitting tool along about 6" or so. At this point, at the risk ofoverstating the obvious, your split will be stopped about 2" to 6" short ofwhere the culm is secured in the vice. Put down the splitting thingy, and don your leather gloves, which willprevent slippage, cuttage, and bleedage, and swearage! Grasp one piece of the cane in each hand, and gently but firmly pull themapart from one another. Keep it all level, and try to keep an equal pull oneither hand. When the split gets down there to the vice, loosen the vice andpull the culm out another foot or so, re-tighten, and repeat the split bypulling the bits apart again. Don't rush. And so on and so on , "walking" the split down to the vice each time untilyou are at the end of the piece, at which time you have 2 pieces, and youcan start again, this time with much greater confidence. Now the point that was made by Richard and Bob in their descriptions isthatthere is a little bit of magic in this business, and it's this - WHEN ( NOT"IF", YOU'LL NOTICE ) THE SPLIT STARTS TO WANDER TO ONE SIDE, you canmostlycorrect it, and the way you do it is this : hold the side toward which thesplit is "walking" ( which will, of course, be the narrower of the 2 stripsat this stage ) firmly with your gloved hand, and apply firm pullingpressure on it ALONG ITS LONG AXIS. That is, you don't pull it away to theside as you would in normal splitting. You just hold it, I guess, in itsnatural position, AND YOU PULL ONLY THE THICKER PIECE TO THE SIDE TOCONTINUE THE SPLIT. You will find that the split walks back to the middle,at which stage you go back to bilateral pulling and thus continue splitting. I found that somewhere along the route I lost one strip which seemed totaper out to nothing; and I had a couple of thinnish ones, but usable. Ithink that the unavoidable loss was that the original check split, as wellas the halving split, may not have followed the natural planes of cleavageof the cane as well as the subsequent hand splits. I think that covers most things that were in the originals. Bob, I thinkdoesn't use the vice, but straddles the culm like a hobby horse whilesplitting; and one of them was adamant that he only ever halved the pieces,never thirds. I found the vice to be a nice stabilising point, and didn'thave any difficulty in "thirding", but of course there is no guarantee thatthe next one I do will be as easy as this one was. I think that, with alittle foresight you could split around leaf nodes, wormholes and otherabominations in the cane, but have not as yet had to try to do that. I don't know if you can make sense out of that. Sorry to the members ofthelist for the length of the note, but there seems to have been someinterest,and for some reason ( my fault, I guess ), the attachments don't seem tobegetting through. Go for it Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from grau@buchlang.com Thu Oct 26 09:31:48 2000 e9QEVlG13934 +0200 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Daylist-nightlist Thx Tony for the article about "the bob-method". Nice to see (read) somelife on the list trough the day - in earlier time all postings wasduring our night- time ( here in europe ).... *lol* Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 26 09:52:40 2000 e9QEqcG15007 Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:52:31 +0800 Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:52:28 +0800 Subject: Re: Daylist-nightlist Seems I never sleep :-) At 04:30 PM 10/26/00 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote:Thx Tony for the article about "the bob-method". Nice to see (read) somelife on the list trough the day - in earlier time all postings wasduring our night-time ( here in europe ).... *lol* Stefan /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Oct 26 10:19:51 2000 e9QFJoG16481 IAA04631 Subject: New URL for Epon data Rodmakers:After spending a fair amount of time trying find technical informationabout Epon/Epicure epoxy systems on the Shell Chemical site, Ieventually discovered that that particular division has been sold offand is now known as Resolution Performance Products. If you are looking http://www.resins-versatics.com/resins/resins.nsf/main/home Hopefully, this will save somebody a little search time. regards to all, mac from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Thu Oct 26 11:51:48 2000 e9QGplG20411 Subject: Fwd: VIRUS ALERT for Windows Users Only Subject: VIRUS ALERT for Windows Users OnlyFrom: IT Notice Sender: owner- headquarters@lists.hq.nasa.gov This message is being transmitted to all NASA HQ employees.Point of Contact: IntelliCenter, 1-877-706-4407 or 358-HELP(4357) ----------------------------------------------------------------- VIRUS ALERT for Windows Users Only A variant of the "VBS/Loveletter.as" worm was recently active atGSFC. This virus is delivered via email as an attachment. Itpropagates using Microsoft Outlook. It attempts to email itselfto all addresses in the Outlook mail directory. The payload ofthis worm consists of overwriting files of certain extensions.This virus is also known as VBS. President.Worm, VBS/Columbia,and VBS.Plan.c. The subject line is one of the following:1. US PRESIDENT and FBI SECRETS=PLEASE VISIT=>( http://WWW.2600.COM)2. [String of 6 random characters]3. [No Subject] The body of the email is one of the following:1. Very joke..! See president and FBI top secret pictures..2. [String of 10 random characters]3. [No Body Text] The name of the attachment is a random string followed by the..VBS file extension. This virus searches out specific files on all available drivesand overwrites them with its own code. Although Outlook is not used in the HQ environment, receipt ofthe virus is possible. If you receive an email with the abovecharacteristics, DO NOT CLICK THE ATTACHMENT! Run your virussoftware and contact the IntelliCenter, 1- 877-706-4407 or358-HELP, for assistance. -----------------------------------------------------------------This "IT Notice" is being transmitted by InfoCom,Code CI-3, HQ Information Technology & CommunicationsDivision. For more information on InfoCom services, call202- 358-2299 or 202-358-4817, or visit the InfoCom webpage at http://www.hq.nasa.gov/hq/infocom.htm from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Oct 26 12:54:07 2000 e9QHs1G22606 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Commercial sawing & splitting e9QHs6G22607 If anyone is interested, jon bokstrom came up with an outstanding methodforsplitting a few years ago.He published it in the planing form, and at the last Corbett lake gatheringjerry arbiter and ron grantham demonstrated the technique.It's simply phenomenal. The last culm that I split I got 30 good, usable tipstrips (I tried for 32 but two walked on me) and 24 butt strips.I was able to split the tip strips .170 wide, saving a huge amount ofpreliminary planing. It's been an epiphany for me. Give it a try. Chris o-----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 4:57 AM Subject: Commercial sawing & splitting Peter and Gang i tried both - sawing and handsplitting. from commercial aspects -sawing ittime saving ( but not material-saving) an cause time is forbusiness-menalwaysan important thing...yes, you know *lol*. Bamboo as very hardmaterialcan ruinsaw-blades in short time, and new blades costs also. Hand-splitting, for some people it works very fine and also quick - it`sapersonal thing and experience also. isaw (letsomeone saw). I tried both, making "sawed" an "handsplitted" rods.And from mypersonal opinion - the difference betwen the rods are very small. One other thing - many - mabye most of the great brands in the pastsawher canealso, and - they had and have many friends of her rods. regards Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesenAdressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Oct 26 13:41:06 2000 e9QIf5G24156 ;Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:41:05 +0200 Subject: Sv: Commercial sawing & splitting e9QIf6G24157 Chris You bet we're interestedWhere can we read about it? regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Commercial sawing & splitting If anyone is interested, jon bokstrom came up with an outstanding methodforsplitting a few years ago.He published it in the planing form, and at the last Corbett lake gatheringjerry arbiter and ron grantham demonstrated the technique.It's simply phenomenal. The last culm that I split I got 30 good, usable tipstrips (I tried for 32 but two walked on me) and 24 butt strips.I was able to split the tip strips .170 wide, saving a huge amount ofpreliminary planing. It's been an epiphany for me. Give it a try. Chris o-----Original Message----- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 14:01:47 2000 e9QJ1kG25340 12:21:38 PDT Subject: Re: Sv: Commercial sawing & splitting carsten, i hand split. it makes life easier. i wason the road anyway but bob had some real goodtechniques. i have at times had to intervne midsplitat times but doing the job by hand i have alot morecontrol. timothy --- Carsten_Jorgensen wrote:Chris You bet we're interestedWhere can we read about it? regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 7:48 PMSubject: RE: Commercial sawing & splitting If anyone is interested, jon bokstrom came up withan outstanding method forsplitting a few years ago.He published it in the planing form, and at thelast Corbett lake gatheringjerry arbiter and ron grantham demonstrated thetechnique.It's simply phenomenal. The last culm that I splitI got 30 good, usable tipstrips (I tried for 32 but two walked on me) and24 butt strips.I was able to split the tip strips .170 wide,saving a huge amount ofpreliminary planing. It's been an epiphany for me. Give it a try. Chris o-----Original Message----- ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Oct 26 14:34:20 2000 e9QJYJG26649 +0200 Subject: Re.: Splitting etc. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C03F95.224E2EC0 I too handsplit. Must admit I never succeeded So if someone knows "The Method" I=B4m eagerto learn. regards,carsten succeededin getting 32 tip splits, though. = So if someone knows "The Method" eagerto learn. regards,carsten <Timothy wrote: timothy ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C03F95.224E2EC0-- from rens.oosthoek@wxs.nl Thu Oct 26 15:55:50 2000 e9QKtnG29217 ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:55:45 +0200 Subject: Re: Commercial sawing & splitting Dear Chris, Thanks for mentioning this. What do i do when I don't subscribe to ThePlaning Form. Could you explain the basics of Jon's approach, please? Yours, Rens ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Commercial sawing & splitting If anyone is interested, jon bokstrom came up with an outstanding methodforsplitting a few years ago.He published it in the planing form, and at the last Corbett lake gatheringjerry arbiter and ron grantham demonstrated the technique.It's simply phenomenal. The last culm that I split I got 30 good, usable tipstrips (I tried for 32 but two walked on me) and 24 butt strips.I was able to split the tip strips .170 wide, saving a huge amount ofpreliminary planing. It's been an epiphany for me. Give it a try. Chris o-----Original Message----- Subject: Commercial sawing & splitting Peter and Gang i tried both - sawing and handsplitting. from commercial aspects -sawing ittime saving ( but not material-saving) an cause time is forbusiness-menalwaysan important thing...yes, you know *lol*. Bamboo as very hardmaterialcan ruinsaw-blades in short time, and new blades costs also. Hand-splitting, for some people it works very fine and also quick - it`sapersonal thing and experience also. isaw (letsomeone saw). I tried both, making "sawed" an "handsplitted" rods.And from mypersonal opinion - the difference betwen the rods are very small. One other thing - many - mabye most of the great brands in the pastsawher canealso, and - they had and have many friends of her rods. regards Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesenAdressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Oct 26 15:59:00 2000 e9QKx0G29450 Subject: RE:jon bokstrom's splitting method Seems like there is an interest.I'll go through my notes tonight and find the orginal article.Unfortunately, I'm at work now, and tomorrow I start a week'svacation, so I probably won't post the info til I get back (I've got anumberor out of town guests who are expecting the grand tour of oregon). I promise I won't forget - if I havent' posted the info by TuesdayNovember 7, someone give me a head's up to remind me. Not only do you get beautifully thin strips that allow a much moreefficient use of the culm, but the splitting itself goes increadibly fast.The method's key is using the thinnest bladed paring knife that youcan find, clamped into your bench vise. The culm is pushed against the bladeand splits the strips like butter. You first need to measure for length,adding at least six inches for staggering. Next you need to place marskingtape around the end of the culm and mark off strips (total number should bea multiple of four). If not a multiple of 4, narrow or widen yourmeasurements accordingly to get the appropriate number. Score the tapealong the marks with a razor blade so the tape will not tear when you startto split. Next put the knife in the vise (I angle the knife slightly toward meso that when I push the culm thru the angle pushes the culm down onto thetop surface of the vise). Put the center mark on the culm (which divides itinto two equal halves) against the knife blade, and give the culm a tap toget the split started (I use a wooden mallet). Once the split is startedpush the culm along by hand to finish the split. If it starts to "walk" oneway or the other, just angle the culm to walk back to where you want it. After splitting in half, nock out the dams (before I split I roughsand the node ridges on the outside of the culm with a small electric palmsander, as recommended by wayne cattanach in his book, rolling the culmunder the sander to keep it even). Now split into halves again, again and again until all strips havebeen split out. The absolute key is using the thinnest bladed knife as possible (I'musing an Henkel 3.5" paring knife). Hope this helps - jon bokstrom gets all the credit, I'm just asatisfied messenger. Chris O. from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Oct 26 16:31:29 2000 e9QLVTG00725 Subject: RE:jon bokstrom's splitting method I too use John Bokstrom's splitting method with one difference, I place thethin knife "handle up" so as not to endanger my hands when pushing theculm. When doing the tips I also take a few passes with my electric planealong the pith side of the culm to get a flat surface. I do this becausethe strips eventually become thinner in width than the thickness of theculm if not planed. I got 32 tip strips out of the last culm I split.---------- From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD Subject: RE:jon bokstrom's splitting methodDate: Thursday, October 26, 2000 4:53 PM Seems like there is an interest.I'll go through my notes tonight and find the orginal article.Unfortunately, I'm at work now, and tomorrow I start a week'svacation, so I probably won't post the info til I get back (I've gotanumberor out of town guests who are expecting the grand tour of oregon). I promise I won't forget - if I havent' posted the info by TuesdayNovember 7, someone give me a head's up to remind me. Not only do you get beautifully thin strips that allow a much moreefficient use of the culm, but the splitting itself goes increadiblyfast.The method's key is using the thinnest bladed paring knife that youcan find, clamped into your bench vise. The culm is pushed against thebladeand splits the strips like butter. You first need to measure for length,adding at least six inches for staggering. Next you need to placemarskingtape around the end of the culm and mark off strips (total number shouldbea multiple of four). If not a multiple of 4, narrow or widen yourmeasurements accordingly to get the appropriate number. Score the tapealong the marks with a razor blade so the tape will not tear when youstartto split. Next put the knife in the vise (I angle the knife slightly toward meso that when I push the culm thru the angle pushes the culm down onto thetop surface of the vise). Put the center mark on the culm (which dividesitinto two equal halves) against the knife blade, and give the culm a taptoget the split started (I use a wooden mallet). Once the split is startedpush the culm along by hand to finish the split. If it starts to "walk"oneway or the other, just angle the culm to walk back to where you want it. After splitting in half, nock out the dams (before I split I roughsand the node ridges on the outside of the culm with a small electricpalmsander, as recommended by wayne cattanach in his book, rolling the culmunder the sander to keep it even). Now split into halves again, again and again until all strips havebeen split out. The absolute key is using the thinnest bladed knife as possible (I'musing an Henkel 3.5" paring knife). Hope this helps - jon bokstrom gets all the credit, I'm just asatisfied messenger. Chris O. from owen@davies.mv.com Thu Oct 26 17:39:49 2000 e9QMdmG02591 Subject: OT - Anyone here know Bill Ballan? Browsing through one of the online catalogues, I ran acrossa photo of some Ballan reels. They reminded me very stronglyof one I saw in the early '70s. I was living in Manhattan at thetime, and about the only fishing I got in was on the flies-only waterof the Saugatuck River in Westport, CT. I got there on thecommuter train, carrying a Scott Pow-R-Ply pack rod. One day,I got to talking with a guy carrying a bamboo rod (I remember itas a Leonard) with a beautiful little raised-pillar reel that I'd neverseen before. Turned out he had built it himself and was planningto go into the business. from its appearance, it might well havebeen the prototype for the Ballan reels, and I'm wondering whetherit was Ballan I ran into. Anyone know whether it's at all likely thathe would have been kicking around the Connecticut suburbs 25years or so ago? Owen Davies from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Oct 26 18:05:23 2000 e9QN5MG03140 "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: jon bokstrom's splitting method Good point. I use a chisel to remove the inner dams so both the pith sideand enamel sides are parallel before I split (it seems to make the splitseasier to control). Chris O -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 2:28 PM Subject: RE:jon bokstrom's splitting method I too use John Bokstrom's splitting method with one difference, Iplace thethin knife "handle up" so as not to endanger my hands when pushingtheculm. When doing the tips I also take a few passes with my electricplanealong the pith side of the culm to get a flat surface. I do thisbecausethe strips eventually become thinner in width than the thickness oftheculm if not planed. I got 32 tip strips out of the last culm Isplit.----------From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD Subject: RE:jon bokstrom's splitting methodDate: Thursday, October 26, 2000 4:53 PM Seems like there is an interest.I'll go through my notes tonight and find the orginalarticle.Unfortunately, I'm at work now, and tomorrow I start aweek'svacation, so I probably won't post the info til I get back (I'vegotanumberor out of town guests who are expecting the grand tour of oregon). I promise I won't forget - if I havent' posted the info byTuesdayNovember 7, someone give me a head's up to remind me. Not only do you get beautifully thin strips that allow amuch moreefficient use of the culm, but the splitting itself goesincreadiblyfast.The method's key is using the thinnest bladed paring knifethat youcan find, clamped into your bench vise. The culm is pushed againstthebladeand splits the strips like butter. You first need to measure forlength,adding at least six inches for staggering. Next you need to placemarskingtape around the end of the culm and mark off strips (total numbershouldbea multiple of four). If not a multiple of 4, narrow or widen yourmeasurements accordingly to get the appropriate number. Score thetapealong the marks with a razor blade so the tape will not tear whenyoustartto split. Next put the knife in the vise (I angle the knife slightlytoward meso that when I push the culm thru the angle pushes the culm downonto thetop surface of the vise). Put the center mark on the culm (whichdividesitinto two equal halves) against the knife blade, and give the culma taptoget the split started (I use a wooden mallet). Once the split isstartedpush the culm along by hand to finish the split. If it starts to"walk"oneway or the other, just angle the culm to walk back to where youwant it. After splitting in half, nock out the dams (before I split Iroughsand the node ridges on the outside of the culm with a smallelectricpalmsander, as recommended by wayne cattanach in his book, rolling theculmunder the sander to keep it even). Now split into halves again, again and again until allstrips havebeen split out. The absolute key is using the thinnest bladed knife aspossible (I'musing an Henkel 3.5" paring knife). Hope this helps - jon bokstrom gets all the credit, I'm justasatisfied messenger. Chris O. from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Thu Oct 26 18:25:22 2000 e9QNPKG03514 Subject: RE: Japanese planes Richard, I have been receiving all the posts of the list after that too.But I could read only some of them because of my reading speed. It is a very good idea to hold a strip by a spring clamp to make both handsfree.Will you please explain a little more how you do clamp a strip by the BUTTsection?I want to try your method for final planing too. wooden planing form.I am still holding a strip by free hand for final planing.Your idea seems to make my final planing more effectively and I can useJapanese plane for it. I made a grooved sole on one of my wood bodied plane by chisel for roughing\. Recently I made a wooden planing form for final planing too by theinstructions ofA.V. Young's home page. (Thanks Tony) If I can make both hands free for final planing,Wooden PF and wood bodied grooved plane seems a good combination sincethey will not make any metalic scratching noise nor metal powders. Goodmental feeling ofplaning.(^^) The best point of grooved sole plane, IMHO, is that I need to horn itsblade only once to plane full 6 strips. Thanks, Max Hello Max, Nice to hear from you. It has been a while. I never hold a strip with myfree hand. I find I can control the planing MUCH better by holding thestrip by the butt section using a spring clamp. Using a spring clamp, itwould be possible to use the Japanese wood planes with both hands on thepull stroke. Richard I am using Japanese wood bodied plane for roughing.To utilize pull stroke plane effectively, it was needed tohold a strip by something other than hand. So I am holdingthe strip forroughing use both handstooperate the Japanese plane(grooved). It will be a little hard to use pull stroke plane by holding astrip by another hand.Usually we stroke Japanese plane using both of hands.Push stroke plane like Stanley is mucheasier to plane a strip by one hand with holding a strip byanother hand forfinal planing, IMHO. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from bob@downandacross.com Thu Oct 26 19:02:13 2000 e9R02CG04535 Subject: Bokstrom method linkMime-Version: 1.0 --=====================_1095754==_.ALT http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.htmlThe article is here at Frank N's site. There are many other must reads here too. What a great site! And, Tony Y., love the makeover on your site too. Cool drop down menus.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_1095754==_.ALT http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.htmlThe article is here at Frank N's site. There are many other mustreads here too. What a great site! And, Tony Y., love the makeover on your site too. Cool drop down menus. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_1095754==_.ALT-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 26 20:12:36 2000 e9R1CZG05727 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Japanese planes I cut my strips about 4-5 inches longer than necessary. I use a springclamp to hold the butt section to the form. I then do 1-2 passes with theplane the entire length of the strip (minus the section I can't do wherethe clamp is). I then flip the strip and do 1-2 passes on the other side.Since I'm not holding the strip in place, I can focus on using a constantpressure on the plane and keeping the plane parallel to the forms. As I approach the final size, I move the spring clamp near the middle ofthe strip to allow me to plane the butt section where the clamp was before.At this point, I'm planing in the opposite direction from thin taper tothick which makes no difference at all. When the butt section is planed tosize, I move the spring clamp back to the butt and complete the planing ofthe rest of the strip. I only hold the strip with my free hand to make sure it is seated in thegroove. I don't have to hold it in place since the spring clamp does that.Makes planing much less strenuous. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 7:25 PM RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Japanese planes Richard, I have been receiving all the posts of the list after that too.But I could read only some of them because of my reading speed. It is a very good idea to hold a strip by a spring clamp tomake both handsfree.Will you please explain a little more how you do clamp astrip by the BUTTsection?I want to try your method for final planing too. plane so far onwooden planing form.I am still holding a strip by free hand for final planing.Your idea seems to make my final planing more effectively andI can useJapanese plane for it. I made a grooved sole on one of my wood bodied plane bychisel for roughing. Recently I made a wooden planing form for final planing too by theinstructions ofA.V. Young's home page. (Thanks Tony) If I can make both hands free for final planing,Wooden PF and wood bodied grooved plane seems a good combination sincethey will not make any metalic scratching noise nor metalpowders. Goodmental feeling ofplaning.(^^) The best point of grooved sole plane, IMHO, is that I needto horn itsblade only once to plane full 6 strips. Thanks, Max Hello Max, Nice to hear from you. It has been a while. I never hold astrip with myfree hand. I find I can control the planing MUCH better byholding thestrip by the butt section using a spring clamp. Using aspring clamp, itwould be possible to use the Japanese wood planes with bothhands on thepull stroke. Richard I am using Japanese wood bodied plane for roughing.To utilize pull stroke plane effectively, it was needed tohold a strip by something other than hand. So I am holdingthe strip forroughing use both handstooperate the Japanese plane(grooved). It will be a little hard to use pull stroke plane by holding astrip by another hand.Usually we stroke Japanese plane using both of hands.Push stroke plane like Stanley is mucheasier to plane a strip by one hand with holding a strip byanother hand forfinal planing, IMHO. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Oct 26 20:44:18 2000 e9R1iFG06464 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:39:53 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: RE: Sawing vs. splitting Hi Pete,as Tony and I always said, "don't worry, it'll never happen". Ofcourse, that was before Tony had a go at milling his finger and I managed toinsert a scalpel into one of mine (very enlightening experience that). Bobprobably used to say the same thing before he went head to head with thatlump of wood a while back. It's amazing how educational personal experiencecan be :)Stay luckyMike Peter McKean wrote:The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, and thenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter from BambooRods@aol.com Thu Oct 26 20:55:21 2000 e9R1tLG06727 Subject: Off Subject Fly Tying Can anyone recommend a Fly Tying magazine. Birthday gift for myself from the sig other.ThanksDoug Hall from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 26 21:03:32 2000 e9R23UG06941 Subject: RE: Sawing vs. splitting "'RODMAKERS'" Happily I've healed and I'm back on deck. Tony At 09:37 AM 10/27/00 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Hi Pete,as Tony and I always said, "don't worry, it'll never happen". Ofcourse, that was before Tony had a go at milling his finger and I managed toinsert a scalpel into one of mine (very enlightening experience that). Bobprobably used to say the same thing before he went head to head with thatlump of wood a while back. It's amazing how educational personalexperiencecan be :)Stay luckyMike Peter McKean wrote:The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, andthenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 26 21:11:59 2000 e9R2BxG07239 Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:13:54 -0500 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Sawing vs. splitting Saw Bob today at the SRG, You can call him Scarface.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Hi Pete,as Tony and I always said, "don't worry, it'll never happen". Ofcourse, that was before Tony had a go at milling his finger and I managedtoinsert a scalpel into one of mine (very enlightening experience that). Bobprobably used to say the same thing before he went head to head with thatlump of wood a while back. It's amazing how educational personalexperiencecan be :)Stay luckyMike Peter McKean wrote:The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, andthenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter from briansr@point-net.com Thu Oct 26 22:05:19 2000 e9R35IG08660 Subject: ebonite Hi folksAnyone know of a source for Ebonite or Vulcanite?TIA Brian from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Oct 27 00:43:57 2000 e9R5htG11477 Subject: RE: Japanese planes Richard, Thank you for the explanation.It is sure that this method will make me more productive. Max I cut my strips about 4-5 inches longer than necessary. I use a springclamp to hold the butt section to the form. I then do 1-2 passes with theplane the entire length of the strip (minus the section I can't do wherethe clamp is). I then flip the strip and do 1-2 passes on the other side.Since I'm not holding the strip in place, I can focus on using a constantpressure on the plane and keeping the plane parallel to the forms. As I approach the final size, I move the spring clamp near the middle ofthe strip to allow me to plane the butt section where the clamp was before.At this point, I'm planing in the opposite direction from thin taper tothick which makes no difference at all. When the butt section is planed tosize, I move the spring clamp back to the butt and complete the planing ofthe rest of the strip. I only hold the strip with my free hand to make sure it is seated in thegroove. I don't have to hold it in place since the spring clamp does that.Makes planing much less strenuous. Richard from dnorl@uswest.net Fri Oct 27 08:30:43 2000 e9RDUgG16861 (63.228.5.146) Subject: Waara v-block This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C03FF2.17A1F760 How can I obtain a Waara v-block?TIADave ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C03FF2.17A1F760 How can I obtain a Waara =v-block?TIADave ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C03FF2.17A1F760-- from eestlow@yahoo.com Fri Oct 27 09:35:24 2000 e9REZNG18980 2000 07:35:21 PDT Subject: Darryl Hayashida? Good Morning All, I've been off-list for a year or so and am wondernigif Darryl is about. I e- mailed him a week or so agoand the post didn't bounce so I assume his AOL accountis still active. Would anyone know his whereabouts? Thanks in advance for any help. A private post isfine, no need to clutter the list beyond what I'vedone. Best regards,-Ed Estlow __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 27 09:53:57 2000 e9RErvG19805 Subject: Re: ebonite In a message dated 10/26/00 8:05:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, briansr@point-net.com writes: Old H-I reelseats? Don B from rmoon@ida.net Fri Oct 27 10:13:58 2000 e9RFDuG20980 Subject: Re: Skues WBR Dennis did you get your information of Skue's rod? If not get back to meand I will see if I can scan it for youRalph from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Oct 27 11:17:14 2000 e9RGHCG23534 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Waara v-block This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3055601774_59774_MIME_Part Dave, What is a Warra v-block?TIAdanny Subject: Waara v-block How can I obtain a Waara v-block?TIADave --MS_Mac_OE_3055601774_59774_MIME_Part Re: Waara v-block Dave, What is a Warra v-block?TIAdanny Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:44:17 -0500 Subject: Waara v-block How can I obtain a Waara v-block?TIADave --MS_Mac_OE_3055601774_59774_MIME_Part-- from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 27 11:36:57 2000 e9RGauG24260 Subject: Re: ebonite Brian, Ebonite is a rubber material and I'd guess that Vulcanite is too. (derived from vulcanizing of rubber?) When in doubt, I use this web-site --> http://www.cmix.com/links/searchers.html and found this site --> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may98/896592481.Ch.r.html What are you trying to make replacement reelseats for Heddons? Theproblem is finding marblized rod stock. Try old Ebonite bowling balls? Sorry - couldn't resist. Don from newmin@ptdprolog.net Fri Oct 27 14:26:33 2000 e9RJQWG29078 Subject: Dickerson 7613 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0402C.073004A0 Thanks to all who gave me input about the Dickerson 7613 taper. As =expected there were many opinions but all said it was a nice taper. =Seeing that everyone was split on which taper they prefered, earlier =or later, I sat down and beveled enough strips for both. =SOOOOOoooooooooo........... with that said, I'm off to build BOTH = Thanks again,Newmin ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0402C.073004A0 Thanks to all who gave me input about the Dickerson= Thanks again,Newmin ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0402C.073004A0-- from if6were9@bellsouth.net Fri Oct 27 14:57:17 2000 e9RJvGG00670 Subject: Re: ebonite You laugh, but I've made some very "interesting" reel seat inserts from oldbowling balls I picked up at the Goodwill store (no commerical interestblah-blah-blah). My favorite is the lime green with swirls of pearl, looks likethose old ink pens my grandpa had laying around on his desk. The hardestpart isgetting the ball cut up, I ran a (really) big screw through a length of 2 X 12and screwed the ball down on it so I could get after it with a chainsaw. AfterIgot the worst of the curves off, a bandsaw took care of the rest. Canerods@aol.com wrote: Brian, Ebonite is a rubber material and I'd guess that Vulcanite is too. (derived from vulcanizing of rubber?) When in doubt, I use this web-site -- >http://www.cmix.com/links/searchers.html and found this site --> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may98/896592481.Ch.r.html What are you trying to make replacement reelseats for Heddons? Theproblem isfinding marblized rod stock. Try old Ebonite bowling balls? Sorry - couldn't resist. Don from anglport@con2.com Fri Oct 27 15:08:33 2000 e9RK8XG01077 "'petermckean'" , owen@davies.mv.com Subject: RE: Sawing vs. splitting All,I have managed to learn vicariously ( at least so far) that you're neversafe! I had a friend, who I would say was the most careful, expert user ofpower tools I ever met. Whenever I had a woodworking problem, he was theone I asked as his answers were so insightful and helpful.At the age of 74 he managed to all but cut 3 fingers off his hand in histable saw. I had an epiphany that day. I realized that if such as he coulddo that terrible job on himself, NO one is immune from these disasters. Ionly hope that, without seeing his mangled fingers, you all can benefit from his experience. God knows, I did.Art At 09:37 AM 10/27/2000 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Hi Pete,as Tony and I always said, "don't worry, it'll never happen". Ofcourse, that was before Tony had a go at milling his finger and I managed toinsert a scalpel into one of mine (very enlightening experience that). Bobprobably used to say the same thing before he went head to head with thatlump of wood a while back. It's amazing how educational personalexperiencecan be :)Stay luckyMike Peter McKean wrote:The only disadvantage that I can see is that it has been SO successful forme that sooner or later I am obviously going to come a real gutser, andthenI am going to feel bad. Still, to quote, I think, Steve McQueen in ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid, "So far, so good !". Peter from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Oct 27 18:11:04 2000 e9RNB3G05575 Subject: RE: Japanese planes Richard, I got a question which is referred to in your method from my friend ofUK. What is spring clamp like? Could you explain how it works and its shape?Is it sold or did you make it? Thanks in advance. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 I cut my strips about 4-5 inches longer than necessary. I use a springclamp to hold the butt section to the form. I then do 1-2 passes with theplane the entire length of the strip (minus the section I can't do wherethe clamp is). I then flip the strip and do 1-2 passes on the other side.Since I'm not holding the strip in place, I can focus on using a constantpressure on the plane and keeping the plane parallel to the forms. As I approach the final size, I move the spring clamp near the middle ofthe strip to allow me to plane the butt section where the clamp was before.At this point, I'm planing in the opposite direction from thin taper tothick which makes no difference at all. When the butt section is planed tosize, I move the spring clamp back to the butt and complete the planing ofthe rest of the strip. I only hold the strip with my free hand to make sure it is seated in thegroove. I don't have to hold it in place since the spring clamp does that.Makes planing much less strenuous. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 7:25 PM RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Japanese planes Richard, I have been receiving all the posts of the list after that too.But I could read only some of them because of my reading speed. It is a very good idea to hold a strip by a spring clamp tomake both handsfree.Will you please explain a little more how you do clamp astrip by the BUTTsection?I want to try your method for final planing too. plane so far onwooden planing form.I am still holding a strip by free hand for final planing.Your idea seems to make my final planing more effectively andI can useJapanese plane for it. I made a grooved sole on one of my wood bodied plane bychisel for roughing. Recently I made a wooden planing form for final planing too by theinstructions ofA.V. Young's home page. (Thanks Tony) If I can make both hands free for final planing,Wooden PF and wood bodied grooved plane seems a good combinationsincethey will not make any metalic scratching noise nor metalpowders. Goodmental feeling ofplaning.(^^) The best point of grooved sole plane, IMHO, is that I needto horn itsblade only once to plane full 6 strips. Thanks, Max Hello Max, Nice to hear from you. It has been a while. I never hold astrip with myfree hand. I find I can control the planing MUCH better byholding thestrip by the butt section using a spring clamp. Using aspring clamp, itwould be possible to use the Japanese wood planes with bothhands on thepull stroke. Richard I am using Japanese wood bodied plane for roughing.To utilize pull stroke plane effectively, it was needed tohold a strip by something other than hand. So I am holdingthe strip forroughing use both handstooperate the Japanese plane(grooved). It will be a little hard to use pull stroke plane by holding astrip by another hand.Usually we stroke Japanese plane using both of hands.Push stroke plane like Stanley is mucheasier to plane a strip by one hand with holding a strip byanother hand forfinal planing, IMHO. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 27 21:35:46 2000 e9S2ZjG08345 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Japanese planes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C04066.1D8262E0 Hello Max, I've attached a picture of the type of clamp I use to this e-mail. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 7:11 PM RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Japanese planes Richard, I got a question which is referred to in your method from my friend ofUK. What is spring clamp like? Could you explain how it works and its shape?Is it sold or did you make it? Thanks in advance. Max Max Rod Craft - an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod MakerParsonal: maxs@geocities.co.jpMRC : mrc@mars.plala.or.jpHome Page:Max Rod Craft: http://members.tripod.com/maxrodParsonal: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Acropolis/2169 from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 28 01:25:58 2000 e9S6PvG11180 (MET DST) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: want delamination Gang how can i delaminate a rod? I have an old one an want delaminate thesplines. How can i do this? Put aceton in an old rod-tube an soak therod over night? Thanks for thoughts/ideas Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Oct 28 03:47:19 2000 e9S8lHG12655 e9S8l3x19511; Subject: Re: want delamination Organization: vet Stefan How old? Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: want delamination Gang how can i delaminate a rod? I have an old one an want delaminate thesplines. How can i do this? Put aceton in an old rod-tube an soak therod over night? Thanks for thoughts/ideas Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 28 03:58:44 2000 e9S8whG12892 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: want delamination Peter not so old, from the 60`ties, is an "old" Pezon et Michel" from a fleaMarket. Someone restored the rod once before, but so lousy! I must strip thevarnish off ,reglue and revarnish the whole rod. The tips delaminates itself, so i will delaminate all. Regards Stefan petermckean schrieb: Stefan How old? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Stefan Grau" Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 5:24 PMSubject: want delamination Gang how can i delaminate a rod? I have an old one an want delaminate thesplines. How can i do this? Put aceton in an old rod-tube an soak therod over night? Thanks for thoughts/ideas Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Oct 28 05:31:24 2000 e9SAVNG13597 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: want delamination Hi Stefan, Why do you want to delaminate the whole rod? If the rod doesnot delaminate by twisting a knife in the open seams then you can spotglue forcing the glue into the seams with strips of paper. I have donethis with numerous old rods with great success. If the prior restorationleft unsightly yet sound gluelines I can understand why you wish todelaminate the whole rod. Best, Marty Peter not so old, from the 60`ties, is an "old" Pezon et Michel" from a fleaMarket. Someone restored the rod once before, but so lousy! I must stripthevarnish off ,reglue and revarnish the whole rod. The tips delaminates itself, so i will delaminate all. Regards Stefan petermckean schrieb: Stefan How old? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Stefan Grau" Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 5:24 PMSubject: want delamination Gang how can i delaminate a rod? I have an old one an want delaminate thesplines. How can i do this? Put aceton in an old rod-tube an soak therod over night? Thanks for thoughts/ideas Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesenAdressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from grau@buchlang.com Sat Oct 28 05:49:26 2000 e9SAnOG13888 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: want delamination If the prior restorationleft unsightly yet sound gluelines I can understand why you wish todelaminate the whole rod. Best, Marty Hi Stefan, Why do you want to delaminate the whole rod? If the rod doesnot delaminate by twisting a knife in the open seams then you can spotglue forcing the glue into the seams with strips of paper. I have donethis with numerous old rods with great success. If the prior restorationleft unsightly yet sound gluelines I can understand why you wish todelaminate the whole rod. Best, Marty Peter not so old, from the 60`ties, is an "old" Pezon et Michel" from a fleaMarket. Someone restored the rod once before, but so lousy! I must stripthevarnish off ,reglue and revarnish the whole rod. The tips delaminates itself, so i will delaminate all. Regards Stefan petermckean schrieb: Stefan How old? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Stefan Grau" Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 5:24 PMSubject: want delamination Gang how can i delaminate a rod? I have an old one an want delaminate thesplines. How can i do this? Put aceton in an old rod-tube an soak therod over night? Thanks for thoughts/ideas Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesenAdressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sat Oct 28 12:39:30 2000 e9SHdTG18895 Subject: RE: Japanese planes Richard san, Doumo arigatou gozaimasu. (Thank you very much for picture.) Max Hello Max, I've attached a picture of the type of clamp I use to this e-mail. Richard from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Oct 28 20:33:04 2000 e9T1X3G25018 SAA24066 Subject: Inexpensive wood lathe Hi all, I need to purchase a wood lathe. Are any of the inexpensive Grizzly lathesadequate? I like the variable speed mini lathe, model G5967, for the price,but also for its size. With the 3-jaw chuck, it'll cost me a little over$200.00. Thanks for any suggestions. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Sun Oct 29 11:00:25 2000 e9TH0OG02781 Subject: Re: New URL for Epon data Ralph,Went to the site you listed to see if I could find any info about the Epon826 I am using. Specifically, was wondering if I'm going to have any troublesince the resin part has gotten a little dark. I got this batch back inAugust and have been storing it downstairs in the basement where thetemperature has never been lower than about 62 degrees F. I'm going to do atest on it but was wondering if anyone is familiar with this? Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Rodmakers:After spending a fair amount of time trying find technical informationabout Epon/Epicure epoxy systems on the Shell Chemical site, Ieventually discovered that that particular division has been sold offand is now known as Resolution Performance Products. If you are looking http://www.resins-versatics.com/resins/resins.nsf/main/home Hopefully, this will save somebody a little search time. regards to all, mac from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Oct 29 11:10:46 2000 e9THAjG03063 Subject: Winner of October Contest All,Jon McAnulty is the winner of the October drawing. The correctanswer was "Don Marquis"--- perhaps best known for his assistant Archie,the coackroach.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from CCGGLOBAL@aol.com Sun Oct 29 12:21:53 2000 e9TILqG04229 Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000 I want to take this opportunity to Thank everyone for all of the great advice, tips, sincere help, etc. and especially Harry Boyd and his staff Dennis Higham, Mike Biondo, Rick Crenshaw, Bob Nunley, and my casting instructor Mr. Currio, for a great weekend, Wayne Cattanach for all of his help and advice, Great sessions all, from Al's beveler, John's Talk on Varnishes, Harry and Bob's Bamboo building class and as always the twomost inspiring people I have had the honor and pleasure of meeting, Harold and Eileen Demarest. I will be look forward to next years Gathering ! Wonderful experience and a great group of people all ! This makes two for me The Southern and GrayRock, I can't wait till the next one ! Thanks to everyone for helping make my weekend complete ! Bill Campbell : e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from b2g@jps.net Sun Oct 29 14:49:47 2000 e9TKnkG06478 Subject: Bamboo Ferrules Organization: Badges 2 Go This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C041AF.3D83BD60 Hello all, Ok, awhile back I remember somebody mentioning something about bamboo =ferrules which intrigued me. So my question is can anyone give me =directions on how these ferrules are build? Also how well do such =ferrules hold up to the usage of the rod? I know nothing beats a nice =NS or brass ferrule but I have one of those questioning minds that is =wondering about them. Thanks. Robert H. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C041AF.3D83BD60 Hello all, Ok, awhile back I remember somebody = = Robert =H. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C041AF.3D83BD60-- from caneman@clnk.com Sun Oct 29 15:15:48 2000 e9TLFlG06944 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Bamboo Ferrules This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_972853742-333-0 Subject: Bamboo Ferrules I had the bamboo ferruled rod at the SRG and had many requests on how tomakethe ferrule and fit it. Although I'm back in Oklahoma, I'm still not home,and am answering this from a remote, but next week, I'll do as detailed adescription of the process, including pictures, make it into a web page soanyone that wants to look it over can. I'll post the URL to the list as soonas I have it finished, and if anyone has ANY questions about it, please feelfree to email or call me and ask! It may be the end of the week before I canget it done, as I have another trip I have to make, but I'll do this as soonas possible. Later,Bob ---------------------------------------------------------This message sent using EMUmail -- http://www.emumail.com------------------------------------------------- -------- Jumping through hoops to get E-mail on the road? You've got two choices: Join the circus, or use MollyMail. Molly Mail -- http://www.mollymail.com ------------=_972853742-333-0-- from caneman@clnk.com Sun Oct 29 15:30:14 2000 e9TLUDG07275 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_972854607-228-0 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2000 Well, I wasn't on the wonderful and patient staff that organized the best SRGto date, but Harry, Rick, Dennis, Ken, Mike and everyone involved inorganizing this years SRG have to be commended. It was fantastic. I metmanythere that I haven't met before, saw many friends I had made the at lastyearsSRG and that in itself made the gathering a pleasure... well, except forHarry's Horn, which jolted me out of my chair a couple of times :^) Also abig THANK YOU not only to the event organizers and all that conducteddemonstrations and brought some of the best casting cane rods I've everseen,but thanks also to Dale and Ronna Fulton and the staff at Fultons Blue RibbonResort. They were, as always, ready to accomodate every need we had...Hell,Ronna even went out and scrounged up a couple of disposable razors so Icouldshave after my face had healed up enough to be touched! LOL The mapleblockmarks have healed up nicely! The food was great (I prob. gained 10 poundswhile I was there), the company was exceptional and the entertainment waswonderful (Thanks Rick... Friday Night gave us something to talk about onSaturday!)Already, I'm looking forward to next year. I can't imagine thatit will be any better than this year, but then again, I didn't think last yearcould be topped and SRG2000 certainly did top1999. Later,Bob CCGGLOBAL@aol.com wrote:I want to take thisopportunity to Thank everyone for all of the greatadvice, tips, sincerehelp, etc. and especially Harry Boyd and his staffDennis Higham, MikeBiondo, Rick Crenshaw, Bob Nunley, and my castinginstructor Mr. Currio, help and advice, Greatsessions all, from Al's beveler, John's Talk onVarnishes, Harry and Bob'sBamboo building class and as always the two mostinspiring people I havehad the honor and pleasure of meeting, Harold andEileen Demarest. I willbe look forward to next years Gathering ! Wonderfulexperience and a greatgroup of people all ! This makes two for me TheSouthern and GrayRock, Ican't wait till the next one !Thanks to everyone for helping make myweekend complete ! Bill Campbell : e-mail :ccgglobal@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------This message sent using EMUmail -- http://www.emumail.com------------------------------------------------- -------- Jumping through hoops to get E-mail on the road? You've got two choices: Join the circus, or use MollyMail. Molly Mail -- http://www.mollymail.com ------------=_972854607-228-0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Oct 29 18:14:30 2000 e9U0ETG10052 Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:17:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Ferrules --------------D141D12EDBE94CCEA2C4197F Got to cast Bob's rod at the SRG, It is a sweetlittle rod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Robert Holder wrote: Hello all, Ok, awhile back I remember somebodymentioning something about bamboo ferrules whichintrigued me. So my question is can anyone giveme directions on how these ferrules are build?Also how well do such ferrules hold up to theusage of the rod? I know nothing beats a niceNS or brass ferrule but I have one of thosequestioning minds that is wondering about them.Thanks. Robert H. --------------D141D12EDBE94CCEA2C4197F Got to cast Bob's rod at the SRG, It is a sweet little rod. Robert Holder wrote: Hello I remember somebody mentioning something about bamboo ferrules whichintrigued but I have one of those questioning minds that is wondering about H. --------------D141D12EDBE94CCEA2C4197F-- from charlie.nightengale@worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 29 18:58:15 2000 e9U0wEG10596 +0000 Subject: Bamboo culms Are they any rodmakers in the Tahoe/Reno area that are interested inordering some bamboo culms. I am going to place an order but I only needone bundle of 10. The shipping charges are the same for 3 or 4 bundles so Ithought I would check to see if anyone was interested. Email me off list if you are interested. Charlie from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sun Oct 29 19:20:36 2000 e9U1KZG11091 RAA08410 Subject: Re:re: inexpensive wood lathe Thanks indeed for the replies. William, can I assume that the Grizzly lathe we speak of has a hole throughthe headstock and that one may turn ferrule stations using it? If it hasthis capability and those you speak of, it will be more than adequate forme. I need to add that my wife and I live in a one-bedroom apartment. Oursky-lighted dining room, which has become our computer room, has alsobecome my rod-building workshop. Needless to say, I have already pushedbeyond the limits of N.Y.C. apartment life. (This all in case anyone wantsto recommend one of those nice big several thousand dollar shop lathes :)) Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from jhat@cbt.net Sun Oct 29 19:58:59 2000 e9U1wxG11711 Subject: SRG Mike ..Harry...Dennis ..Rick...we had a great time this year at theSRG..The Food was great & the fellowship I really enjoyed.,Ken did a finejob on the hamburgers. as usual..Hope Dan's arm is going to be O K ..Jim from wiljette@nmia.com Sun Oct 29 21:09:00 2000 e9U38xG13100 (Smail-3.2.0.109 1999-Oct-27 #6 built 2000-Oct-18) Subject: Re: inexpensive wood lathe Frank: I have had good results from a pen making lathe I purchased fromPennState Industries called a Carba -Tec Mini Lathe. It has a 3/8" bore thru thehead stock and tailstock. It works for turning ferrule stations, cork gripsand reel seat fillers. No financial interest etc.The website iswww.pennstateind.com Will Jette from owen@davies.mv.com Sun Oct 29 21:35:18 2000 e9U3ZHG13670 Subject: Re:re: inexpensive wood lathe Frank Olivieri asked about wood lathes, then noted: I need to add that my wife and I live in a one-bedroom apartment. Oursky- lighted dining room, which has become our computer room, has alsobecome my rod-building workshop. Needless to say, I have already pushedbeyond the limits of N.Y.C. apartment life. (This all in case anyone wantsto recommend one of those nice big several thousand dollar shop lathes :)) Under the circumstances, I'd consider one of the better mini-lathes. I havea Jet myself -- 10-inch swing and 14 inches between centers, with hollowhead- and tailstock. I haven't used it for rod work yet, but don't expectanyproblem figuring out some way to support the end of the rod that sticks outin the wrong direction. There are several alternatives: Vicmarc VL-100, Delta Midi-lathe,Teknatool Comet, and Teknatool Mercury come to mind as machines withdecent to excellent reputations. Most of the prices are in the $300 range. The Jet tends to go for $320,with motor. The Vicmarc is $300 without motor. The Mercury can be had but I haven't seen specs on it yet. Check with Craft Supplies, in Provo, UT, and with Woodcraft Supply. Theyboth have Web sites where you should be able to ask for catalogs. Teknatoolis on the Net also. If you have trouble finding them, send me an e- mail,andI'll locate the URLs. There are a few cheaper machines out there, but none will have the qualityof the Jet or Vicmarc, or probably the Delta, which I have yet to see inperson.If you can, go for quality, even though it costs a little more. Who knows?Youmay even find that you like woodturning. A lot of people seem to. Owen Davies from Canerods@aol.com Sun Oct 29 22:09:09 2000 e9U498G14304 Subject: Re: inexpensive wood lathe If you are willing to pay $300 for a wood lathe, then also look at the 7" x 10" METAL lathe form Harbor Freight. It sells for under $400 and often less when on sale. Don Burns from caneman@clnk.com Sun Oct 29 23:36:08 2000 e9U5a8G15849 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:29:21 -0600 Subject: 6' 4 wt taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0103_01C04200.57645400 When we were at the SRG2000, I had many requests for this taper, so I =figured I'd just post it to the list so that all who wanted it could get =it. This is the 6' 4 wt rod that is one of, if not my all time favorite =rod to fish. For those that didn't cast it, it's a pretty quick little =rod that (Hope you don't mind my quoting you, here, Dan) Dan Cooney said =you could "cast through a screen door.The dimensions are the half-diameters... here she is... 6' 4wt Brookie 1 .0355 .04310 .05515 .06220 .07025 .07930 .08935 .09540 .09745 .10150 .10955 .11760 .12365 .125 Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0103_01C04200.57645400 When we were at the SRG2000, I had many requests for this taper, so= figured I'd just post it to the list so that all who wanted it could get = that (Hope you don't mind my quoting you, here, Dan) Dan Cooney said you = "cast through a screen door. is... 6' 4wt Brookie Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0103_01C04200.57645400-- from grau@buchlang.com Mon Oct 30 03:26:54 2000 e9U9QrG18542 +0100 (MET) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Taper for a 6ft,#4-5,4(!) piece rod Friends any tapers for a 6ft, #4-5, 4(!) piece rod? Regards Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht. from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 30 05:57:58 2000 e9UBvvG19494 +0000 Subject: SRG2000 Greetings All, Another superb job by the organizers of the SRG!! I agree with Bob, itwas the best one yet, although all three hold a special place with me. I saw rods that made me green with envy, listers with casting abilitiesthat had me mentally budgeting for lessons, techniques and tools thatwould have been recorded photographically, if my battery had not givenout(more budgeting), hand outs, lectures and dissertations by masters ofthis craft, whose generosity is unequaled in any endeavor that I haveever participated in. In case you haven't gotten the gist of this missive, I had a great time!I probably should have been nicer to Linda on the phone though, as shenot only had the door deadbolted..... but the screen was also latched. If I was going to send info to anyone on silk or the ceramic sharpeneretc.,just respond off line to this message. My experience was enhanced by the fishing sorties and conversationalexchanges (woefully inadequate on my part) with my roomy. Hope to see you all next year! PS Carol, I was home a full three hours before Linda noticed the lumpon the back of my head. from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 30 07:46:32 2000 e9UDkVG21056 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:39:45 -0600 Subject: Re: 6' 4 wt taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C04244.D7CFC0E0 Note... I guess my brain is still a bit foggy from Friday Night at the =SRG. I assumed everyone knew that was a 2 piece rod, but had many that =emailed to ask... so Yes, it is a 2 piecer. Sorry for any confusionBob -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Sunday, October 29, 2000 11:29 PMSubject: 6' 4 wt taper When we were at the SRG2000, I had many requests for this taper, so =I figured I'd just post it to the list so that all who wanted it could =get it. This is the 6' 4 wt rod that is one of, if not my all time =favorite rod to fish. For those that didn't cast it, it's a pretty =quick little rod that (Hope you don't mind my quoting you, here, Dan) =Dan Cooney said you could "cast through a screen door.The dimensions are the half-diameters... here she is... 6' 4wt Brookie 1 .0355 .04310 .05515 .06220 .07025 .07930 .08935 .09540 .09745 .10150 .10955 .11760 .12365 .125 Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C04244.D7CFC0E0 Note... I guess my brain is still a = = rod, but had many that emailed to ask... so Yes, it is a 2 =piecer. Sorry for any confusionBob -----Original = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, October 29, 2000 11:29 PMSubject: 6' 4 taperWhen we were at the SRG2000, I had many requests for this = figured I'd just post it to the list so that all who wanted it could = quick little rod that (Hope you don't mind my quoting you, here, = Cooney said you could "cast through a screen door. is... 6' 4wt Brookie Later,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C04244.D7CFC0E0-- from danny.twang@pd.no Mon Oct 30 07:46:43 2000 e9UDkfG21067 Subject: New address Eventually we have got a new domain here at work.My new mail address at work is Sorry for the bandwidth, but this is actually a hidden test:-) danny from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Oct 30 09:41:43 2000 e9UFfgG25543 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Switching to new ISP & computer... May be offline awhile sorting outpossible bugs... Hello gang, Today is the day of reckoning... My ISP service is being switched to adifferent type of DSL plus I bought a new whizz bang speedier computer... This means both are being radically changed. My ISP stays the same and myemail addresses are supposed to stay the same, but you never know until thefat lady sings. So... this is just an advance notice in case some of you try to reach me andmy response time is worse than usual... If someone gets desperate, try mytelephone at 323.465.4551. Sorry for the bandwidth... wish me luck... Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Oct 30 12:20:24 2000 e9UIKLG02190 Subject: Ron Barch Does anyone have information on getting in touch with Ron Barch? E-mailor phone number would be great. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Oct 30 14:25:14 2000 e9UKPEG05993 Subject: Medalists To the List,Pardon something a bit off the subject, but do any of you PfluegerMedalist enthusiasts have interest in swapping parts? Made in USA onlyplease. Bill from rafick@3riversweb.net Mon Oct 30 16:11:45 2000 e9UMBiG10600 Subject: snake maker Would anyone who has been using the second generation LeClair snake makerbewilling to share info and tips.What kind of wire you use, can you produce snake guides equal tocommercialbrands quality, etc. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo Fly RodsThe best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods from owen@davies.mv.com Mon Oct 30 17:17:56 2000 e9UNHtG13126 Subject: Sam Carlson book? I could almost swear I'd heard of a book about Sam Carlsonyears ago, but there's no sign of it at The Ultimate BambooFly Rod Library or at Amazon.com. Anyone heard of it, oris my memory glitching on me again? Thanks. Owen Davies from captvonbek@earthlink.net Mon Oct 30 17:26:56 2000 e9UNQtG13525 PAA13917 Subject: RE:re: inexpensive wood lathe Thanks again for all the great suggestions for inexpensive wood lathes. I realize there are some great lathes, quite suitable for rod making, butare a wee bit over me budget these days.:) I need to keep it around the$300.00 or lower. Some of you recommended the Sherline long bed. It's quitenice; ideal, but it's $650 +. Again, I do not have a great deal of room towork with either. Grizzly makes a 14" x 40" with stand for $149.00. This should work forturning ferrule stations and cork grips, will fit in my limited space, andwon't drain my wallet before the holidays. In a year or two when we buy aspacious home on Long Island, I'll take a room in the basement, and,perhaps, get me one of those big old lathes that will do it all. Richard, she is indeed a great sport, and quite the fly fisherperson. Shecanoed and portaged 45 miles in the Adirondacks this past July and neveruttered a complaint( except when it dropped to 39 degrees, suddenly oneevening-I couldn't blame her :)) It's a good life. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from bob@downandacross.com Mon Oct 30 17:44:30 2000 e9UNiUG14316 Subject: Re: Sam Carlson book? He is mentioned in the Spurr, Campbell, and Keane books.Bob At 06:17 PM 10/30/00 -0500, you wrote:I could almost swear I'd heard of a book about Sam Carlsonyears ago, but there's no sign of it at The Ultimate BambooFly Rod Library or at Amazon.com. Anyone heard of it, oris my memory glitching on me again? Thanks. Owen Davies from captvonbek@earthlink.net Mon Oct 30 18:04:32 2000 e9V04WG14901 QAA10065 Subject: RE:re: inexpensive wood lathes Some of the grizzly lathes do have a hole through the headstock. I need toconfirm which models do. Believe me-I would love to get a Sherline, but,yeah, yeah, I probably will. :) With the 3-jaw chuck and delivery, we'retalking 8 or $900.00. Yes? No? William, I would amputate an appendage( one that wouldn't hinder my fishingabilities :)) to move out of this city and into the country. I'm partBlackfoot and Crow. I was catching Brookies with me bare hands in theCatskills when I was a wee bit of a tot. Yet, sigh, my wife and I do ratherwell teaching here and getting good teaching jobs that pay well, in thecountry, is difficult. We manage to get away enough and do plenty offishing, not to mention there's a heck of a lot to do in Manhattan. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Oct 30 19:31:32 2000 e9V1VVG16670 (207.103.136.151) Subject: Agate Guides odd request I have an opportunity to get a bunch of red agate slices from a friend. Iwas wondering if anyone could measure the thickness of an agate guide insize 9 or 10 to let me know if these pieces are usable. He is mailing themacross country any I was wondering if it would be worth my while to takethem. Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from volksman9@usa.net Mon Oct 30 19:55:18 2000 e9V1tHG17095 mailer(34FM.0700.4.03) on Tue Oct 31 01:55:18 GMT 2000 Subject: e9V1tIG17096 Have a Heddon thorobred 3 piece that needs a little work but is in goodoverall shape and has original tube and sack .Anyone interested in it let meknow- Daniel. ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 from captvonbek@earthlink.net Mon Oct 30 22:04:24 2000 e9V44NG20037 UAA16404 Subject: Sherline 4400 Lathe Several of you recommended the Sherline lathe. The list price for the 4400Aat Sherline was $675.00 with 3-Jaw chuck and 3/8" tailstock chuck. I foundthis same kit for $573.00 minus $25.00 with a coupon at a dealer on LongIsland. Shipping should be minimal or I can pick it up myself. This lathemeasures 17" between centers which should be fine for turning cork grips.Since this seems to be a popular lathe for rod makers, I'm assuming it isquite suitable for turning ferrule stations, grips, and even reel seats. Indeed it turns out to cost a lot less than I believed it would. Any morecomments or suggestions are quite welcome. I'd appreciate hearing frommorefolks with a Sherline, particularly this model. Thanks indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from bob@downandacross.com Mon Oct 30 22:48:39 2000 e9V4mcG20882 Subject: Re: Sherline 4400 Lathe That's what I have. I just made some pretty nice ferrules with it. I don't know how the Jet or Harbor Freight lathes are, but the Sherline is very nice. I highly recommend it. It is excellent for all rodmaking needs.Best regards,Bob At 11:01 PM 10/30/00 -0500, Frank Olivieri wrote:Several of you recommended the Sherline lathe. The list price for the4400Aat Sherline was $675.00 with 3-Jaw chuck and 3/8" tailstock chuck. I foundthis same kit for $573.00 minus $25.00 with a coupon at a dealer on LongIsland. Shipping should be minimal or I can pick it up myself. This lathemeasures 17" between centers which should be fine for turning cork grips.Since this seems to be a popular lathe for rod makers, I'm assuming it isquite suitable for turning ferrule stations, grips, and even reel seats. Indeed it turns out to cost a lot less than I believed it would. Any morecomments or suggestions are quite welcome. I'd appreciate hearing frommorefolks with a Sherline, particularly this model. Thanks indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 30 22:49:08 2000 e9V4n7G20971 Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:22:02 -0800 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: I hated to leave... Friends,On my way home from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering last night, Ibegan thinking about what I might post to the rodmakers list about theweekend. Last year I poured out some really deep feelings. This year,I'll keep it a little lighter. No waxing eloquent and slinging sweat, Ipromise. Somewhere on the road home I passed a Jiffy Lube with a neon'dmarquis. This message was posted on the marquis - "Any day on which youmake a memory never really ends." I like that. Lots of good memorieswere made this year. Many of you said to me that you wished the weekenddidn't have to end. Well, it doesn't have to end, at least not in ourmemories. laughter, and the feeling that we've all found a group which shares ourpassions. I need that, and cherish it. In fact, I think that's what agood church is -- a group of people who share a common passion and arecommitted to helping each other deepen that passion. Thank you to everyone who helped make the weekend a success.Friends and co-conspirators Mike, Rick, Charlie, Dennis, and Ken madethis weekend much more enjoyable for me than last year's gathering.Every program that was presented was informative and well-done. Ididn't cast a single bad rod (well, except for that para that I made!)The food was good, the fellowship was better. I'm already getting excited about next year's gathering. We'vegrown to our maximum capacity, so we'll cut off registrations at 60people and require pre-registrations by Labor Day (September 3). Havingmore people than we can handle is really a good problem, isn't it? Thanks to everyone who got off their wallets, we were able to raise$2000 for conservation in Arkansas and Missouri. That's quite ablessing. Next year we hope to do even more. Again, thanks for everything you folks did and in the words of the60's song, "Thank you for being my friend(s)." Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 30 22:50:03 2000 e9V4o2G21100 Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:05:24 -0800 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: I don't wanna go home --------------E39F58D4E22FB4CA9E92A224 Friends,I tried this earlier, and it never showed up. Here we go again: On my way home from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering last night, Ibegan thinking about what I might post to the rodmakers list about theweekend. Last year I poured out some really deep feelings. This year,I'll keep it a little lighter. No waxing eloquent and slinging sweat, I promise. Somewhere on the road home I passed a Jiffy Lube with a neon'dmarquis. This message was posted on the marquis - "Any day on which you make a memory never really ends." I like that. Lots of good memorieswere made this year. Many of you said to me that you wished the weekend didn't have to end. Well, it doesn't have to end, at least not in ourmemories. laughter, and the feeling that we've all found a group which shares ourpassions. I need that, and cherish it. In fact, I think that's what agood church is -- a group of people who share a common passion and arecommitted to helping each other deepen that passion. Thank you to everyone who helped make the weekend a success.Friends and co-conspirators Mike, Rick, Charlie, Dennis, and Ken madethis weekend much more enjoyable for me than last year's gathering.Every program that was presented was informative and well-done. Ididn't cast a single bad rod (well, except for that para that I made!)The food was good, the fellowship was better. I'm already getting excited about next year's gathering. We'vegrown to our maximum capacity, so we'll cut off registrations at 60people and require pre-registrations by Labor Day (September 3). Having more people than we can handle is really a good problem, isn't it? Thanks to everyone who got off their wallets, we were able to raise$2000 for conservation in Arkansas and Missouri. That's quite ablessing. Next year we hope to do even more. Again, thanks for everything you folks did and in the words of the60's song, "Thank you for being my friend(s)." Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------E39F58D4E22FB4CA9E92A224 Friends, Here we go again: Gatheringlast night, Ibegan thinking about what I might post to the rodmakers list aboutthe This year, sweat, Ipromise. with a neon'd which you good memories weekend in ourmemories. camaraderie,the fun, thelaughter, and the feeling that we've all found a group which sharesour that's what agood church is -- a group of people who share a common passion andarecommitted to helping each other deepen that passion. weekenda success.Friends and co-conspirators Mike, Rick, Charlie, Dennis, and Ken madethis weekend much more enjoyable for me than last year's gathering.Every program that was presented was informative and well- Ididn't cast a single bad rod (well, except for that para that I made!)The food was good, the fellowship was better. We'vegrown to our maximum capacity, so we'll cut off registrations at 60 Havingmore people than we can handle is really a good problem, isn't it? were able to raise a the words of the60's song, "Thank you for being my friend(s)."Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --------------E39F58D4E22FB4CA9E92A224-- from rfjoinery@creativequest.com Mon Oct 30 23:36:04 2000 e9V5a4G22204 Subject: wooden planing forms Where can I find info on making wood final planing forms? I presume thedimensions would be same as for steel forms, but would like to know what'sworked for screws and dowels etc.. Would you cut the groove with files, orwith a router or shaper cutter( then how to make the taper?) Is this infoposted or published somewhere? Thanks. I definitely got the fever this weekend at Fulton's. You guys were all veryhelpful, and the live demos were just what I needed. Thanks to all who putthis thing together. from grau@buchlang.com Tue Oct 31 01:38:56 2000 e9V7ctG23980 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: wooden planing forms Rick visit following links: http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/planeform.html http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/makeform.GIF http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/formdepth.GIF also: http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/rma/rm9512.txt http://www.bobwhite.com/bamboo/build1.htm http://www.overmywaders.com/extracts/wise5.html Regards Stefan Rick Funcik schrieb: Where can I find info on making wood final planing forms? I presume thedimensions would be same as for steel forms, but would like to know what'sworked for screws and dowels etc.. Would you cut the groove with files, orwith a router or shaper cutter( then how to make the taper?) Is this infoposted or published somewhere? Thanks. I definitely got the fever this weekend at Fulton's. You guys were all veryhelpful, and the live demos were just what I needed. Thanks to all who putthis thing together. --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail isintended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, youmust not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on theinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail inerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies from yoursystem. from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Oct 31 06:16:13 2000 e9VCGCG26035 Subject: Helmsman Spar Urethane Anyone had any experience with the Minmax Helmsman spar urethanedarkening over time, presumably due to the UV inhibitors? If so, how dark does the finish turn? Actually, a little darkeing wouldn't be that bad -- it dries very clear right out of the tube. --Rich from dan_cooney@attglobal.net Tue Oct 31 07:20:30 2000 e9VDKTG26750 +0000 Subject: Casting through a screen door Bob, Just to set the record straight, the quote about loops so tight you cancast through a screen door is not mine. It's something I heard LeftyKreh say when describing Flip Pallot's casting abilities. I thought thequote fit your "Brookie" taper perfectly, though. It is one reallysweet casting rod. Dan Cooney from dan_cooney@attglobal.net Tue Oct 31 07:41:52 2000 e9VDfqG27140 +0000 Subject: SRG 2000 I'll keep this brief in the interest of those less fortunate who didn'tattend last week's SRG 2000. I would be remiss if I didn't express my heartfelt appreciation to HarryBoyd and to Mike Biondo, Ken Cole, Rick Crenshaw, Charlie Curro andDennis Higham for putting together another great meeting. You guysreally outdid yourself. It takes a lot of hard work to pull together anevent like this one. Thanks also to all of the presenters and others whomade this such a wonderful event. It was super -- especially all of the people. Thanks!! Dan Cooney BTW: For those concerned about my shoulder and arm -- they're fine, butI'm still experiencing some withdrawal symptoms from not being able tocast all of those wonderful rods any more. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 10:56:13 2000 e9VGuCG03710 08:56:09 PST Subject: srg 2000 to all who attended, i was not able to attend thegathering and sulked all weekend, well it started wed.i am anxious to see some pictures. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.http://im.yahoo.com/ from anglport@con2.com Tue Oct 31 15:20:07 2000 e9VLK6G13729 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: I hated to leave... Harry,It sounds like all of these work about the same way. Anyone who canmakeone and doesn't is into making SERIOUS mistakes. There ain't no bettergroups than the ones I've met through the Gatherings! When you can get thatmany folk together and not find a klinker in the group, that's sayingsomething!Next year (the first of my retirement years), I hope to make more thanjust the Catskill Gathering!Art At 11:20 AM 10/30/2000 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,On my way home from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering last night, Ibegan thinking about what I might post to the rodmakers list about theweekend. Last year I poured out some really deep feelings. This year,I'll keep it a little lighter. No waxing eloquent and slinging sweat, Ipromise. Somewhere on the road home I passed a Jiffy Lube with a neon'dmarquis. This message was posted on the marquis - "Any day on which youmake a memory never really ends." I like that. Lots of good memorieswere made this year. Many of you said to me that you wished the weekenddidn't have to end. Well, it doesn't have to end, at least not in ourmemories. laughter, and the feeling that we've all found a group which shares ourpassions. I need that, and cherish it. In fact, I think that's what agood church is -- a group of people who share a common passion and arecommitted to helping each other deepen that passion. Thank you to everyone who helped make the weekend a success.Friends and co-conspirators Mike, Rick, Charlie, Dennis, and Ken madethis weekend much more enjoyable for me than last year's gathering.Every program that was presented was informative and well-done. Ididn't cast a single bad rod (well, except for that para that I made!)The food was good, the fellowship was better. I'm already getting excited about next year's gathering. We'vegrown to our maximum capacity, so we'll cut off registrations at 60people and require pre-registrations by Labor Day (September 3). Havingmore people than we can handle is really a good problem, isn't it? Thanks to everyone who got off their wallets, we were able to raise$2000 for conservation in Arkansas and Missouri. That's quite ablessing. Next year we hope to do even more. Again, thanks for everything you folks did and in the words of the60's song, "Thank you for being my friend(s)." Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from oossg@vbe.com Tue Oct 31 16:02:01 2000 e9VM20G15055 Subject: Lookong for Sorry for the bandwidth. If Steve Kiley from Portland, OR is out there,contact me off list.Scott Grady from newmin@ptdprolog.net Tue Oct 31 16:46:43 2000 e9VMkgG17080 Subject: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04364.3BF3D500 howdy,anyone ever hear of a product called; Jax Iron, steel and nickle =blackener. Anyone have any experence with it or know where to get =it? Newmin ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04364.3BF3D500 howdy, = where to get it? Newmin ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04364.3BF3D500-- from captvonbek@earthlink.net Tue Oct 31 17:23:04 2000 e9VNN3G18006 PAA25398 Subject: RE:re: Sherline 4400A lathe Thanks everyone. As I said in my last post, I thought this Sherline wouldbe $800 or $900 with shipping. The $573 - $25 coupon with the two chucks isnot too shabby. According to what many of you have said, and a goodlynumber of posts in the archives, the Sherline is quite suitable for rodmaking. Art, the place on Long Island is approx. a twenty minute drive from where Iam in Queens. No, I wasn't at the Catskills Gathering. Next year forsure.:) Bill, go to www.schoolprojects.com and hit the Sherline link. The coupon isavailable at the site from the retailer.:) Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from captvonbek@earthlink.net Tue Oct 31 17:37:19 2000 e9VNbJG18324 PAA20252 Subject: Cattanach Oven Hey all, I received the strip heater, copper wire, and thermostat a while back. Ijust need to get the duct, electric box, conduit, insulation, etc.. I've wanted to get this oven built, but I've been shying away from it sinceI'm not really comfortable with the wiring of it. May I ask any of you whohave built this oven to, perhaps, send me a "Building the Cattanach Oven to begin. I'm just about ready to heat my first strips. I'm making a rod for arelative and hope to get it done for the Holidays. Thanks indeed, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from cattanac@wmis.net Tue Oct 31 18:34:05 2000 eA10Y4G19392 Subject: Re: Cattanach Oven The wiring of the oven is fairly straight forward - but some are familiarwith such things - so let's walk through it. Wire types - the lead in from the wall plug should be 14/3 ruberized coatedwire - such is used for lamps and power hand tools High temp - the wire that runs from inside of the 4" x 4" box mounted ontothe ductwork needs to be the same wire as used in electric oven - in otherwords rated for higher temeratures that what normal wire (or rather coatingof wire) are rated for Plug in terminations - to follow the proper connections do as follows - ofthe three screw terminations thre should be 3 different color screws - thewires of the cord should be connected as follows - The White wire goes tothe silver looking screw which connects to the taller of the bladeconnections - The black wire goes to the brass or black colored screw whichis connected to the smaller of the blade connectors - And finally the greenwire goes to the green tinted screw which is connected to the oval groundingprong of the connector Next the other end of the 14/3 cord is stripped back so that there are 6"tails of the colored wire and the cord should be connected to the 4" x 4"box with a Romex connector. The thermostat is connected to a 4" x 4" blank cover with the mountingscrews provided with the stat. then life one of the 1/2" 'knockouts' fromthe bottom of the 4' x4" box mounted to the duct work - then using a 3/8"drill drill a hold through the opened 'knockout' and through both layers ofthe duct work leaving a hole that enters into the inside of the oven Then feed in the capallary tube and attach it to the bent rat screen shelf - extending it about 24" into the duct work. Now mount the conduit to the strip heater - drilling screw holes ALONG SIDEthe strip heater and NOT THROUGH the heater - attaching conduit in at least3 locations along the length of the stripNext attach the high temperature wire to the 2 terminals of the strip heaterand then place the heater into place - once there feed the high temperaturewire up through the drilled hole entering the 4" x 4" box - the wire willseal off the hole nicely so that heat doesn't enter the 4" x 4" box Box connections - First place the green wire under one of the mountingscrews that holds the 4" x 4" box to the duct work - Second - Connect one ofthe high temperature wires leading from inside the oven shell to the Whitewire - using a yellow wire nut.Finally - the black wire from the cord needs to be attached to one of the.250" male posts on the thermostat - the connection should be made with aninsulated wire end - the connector is a female .250" - Then the remainingwire leading in from the oven shell needs to be connected to the remaining.250" male post on the thermostat - again an insulated .250" femaleconnector should be used. This should complete the wiring and the 4" x4" cover can now be placed ontothe box. And lastly - if you monitor the oven temperature and the dial doesn't agreewith the reading - it can be calibrated by turning the small screw that isINSIDE of the thermostat stem - presently it is held from turing with asealant A 4" x 4" - 2 1/4" deep box is recommended for the thermostat enclosure I hope this helps - Bill Campbell has a drawing - done at SRG 200 - if needbe I can resketch and scan and forward to those interested Best Of Luck Wayne from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Oct 31 18:48:10 2000 eA10m9G20031 Subject: New e-mail This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C04373.1EB43340 Hi Y'all, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C04373.1EB43340 Hi Y'all, Please note my new e-mail address, for= Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C04373.1EB43340-- from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Oct 31 18:51:45 2000 eA10pjG20219 Subject: Catch and release This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C04373.A16DC6C0 Reed has often made the point to any of us that would listen that catch =and release isn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard for 10 =days around Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of fish with big sores =and various deformities on their mouths. I was really bummed out. My =question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to lessen =impact on the fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C04373.A16DC6C0 First, sorry for the non-rodmaking = . . Reed has often made the point to anyof = Last = fished hard for 10 days around Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of = release to lessen impact on the fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C04373.A16DC6C0-- from bob@downandacross.com Tue Oct 31 19:31:38 2000 eA11VXG21203 Subject: Re: Catch and release I try these things for c&r:* try not to touch the fish if possible, and if I do wet hands first (ketchum release tool is good for this)* use barbless hooks* use the right rod and play the fish quickly (saving my Thramer 444 * be gentle on the release as you are during presentation of the flyLooking forward to hearing more. I often fear these steps are not enough. Another thing that kills a lot of fish is when people fish in water too warm for such activities. When I scout out the fall steelhead streams, I know there are fish there in July. I also know that hooking one in that warmer water would seal the fishes doom. I see and hear about this happening all the time. You are out hiking and scouting, another fishermen is upstream releasing fish that are now floating downstream doing the back stroke! Go figure.Best regards, At 07:49 PM 10/31/00 -0500, Brian Creek wrote:First, sorry for the non- rodmaking question, but. . . . Reed has often made the point to any of us that would listen that catch and release isn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard for 10 days around Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of fish with big sores and various deformities on their mouths. I was really bummed out. My question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to lessen impact on the fishies? Brian from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Oct 31 19:34:03 2000 eA11Y2G21370 Subject: Re: In a message dated 10/31/2000 5:47:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, newmin@ptdprolog.net writes: Contact: Sheffield's Knife Makers supplyat 904-775-6453 Request a catalog.I have used a lot of the Jax coloring solutions andthey work very well. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Oct 31 19:45:13 2000 eA11jCG21743 RAA03897 Subject: Re: Catch and release This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C0437A.72025340 I use barbless hooks and typically tiny hoks at that. I rarely fish with =flies over #18 so they don't leave a big puncture wound. Another key to =sucsusful catch and release is not overplaying the fish. Get it's head =up and pull it over as fast as possible. Paul Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 7:49 PMSubject: Catch and release Reed has often made the point to any of us that would listen that =catch and release isn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard = sores and various deformities on their mouths. I was really bummed out. =My question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to =lessen impact on the fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C0437A.72025340 I use barbless hooks and typically tiny hoks at = fish with flies over #18 so they don't leave a big puncture wound. = to sucsusful catch and release is not overplaying the fish. Get it's = pull it over as fast as possible. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Creek Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000= PMSubject: Catch and =release First, sorry for the non-rodmaking = . . . Reed has often made the point to any= I fished hard for 10 days around Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of = = and release to lessen impact on the fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C0437A.72025340-- from tonkin@xtn.net Tue Oct 31 19:53:32 2000 eA11rVG22013 Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:53:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Catch and release If you give the fish enough time to recover from the battle, be it longor short, it will stand a much better chance of surveying. Typically, itis best to hold the fish in the water until it cannot be held anymorewith out great effort. When it is recovered, it will strongly swim away. Brian Creek wrote: First, sorry for the non-rodmaking question, but. . . . Reed has often made the point to any of us that would listen thatcatch and release isn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard sores and various deformities on their mouths. I was really bummedout. My question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch andrelease to lessen impact on the fishies? Brian -- -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Oct 31 20:10:26 2000 eA12APG22469 Subject: Re: Catch and release --------------D0460E2DBFB2C4183612FE9E Brian,Ouch! Yes, I suppose I walk my little dogma too often.The point I am usually trying to make is that the philosophy ofCatch and Release harms the fisherman ... the worst of it is that thedamage is not visible to the sufferer.Enough, I'm only proving your point, Brian. : )Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Brian Creek wrote: First, sorry for the non-rodmaking question, but. . . . Reed has oftenmade the point to any of us that would listen that catch and releaseisn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard for 10 days aroundColorado Springs, and caught a LOT of fish with big sores and variousdeformities on their mouths. I was really bummed out. My questionis, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to lessen impacton the fishies? Brian -- --------------D0460E2DBFB2C4183612FE9E Brian, often. philosophy of Catch and Release harms the fisherman ... the worstof it is that the damage is not visible to the sufferer. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Brian Creek wrote: First, has often made the point to any of us that would listen that catch and days around Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of fish with big sores and My question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to lessen -- --------------D0460E2DBFB2C4183612FE9E-- from rkrees@mcn.net Tue Oct 31 20:14:56 2000 eA12EtG22652 Subject: Re: Catch and release This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C0436E.E3EB8320 -----OriginalHold your breath they can=92t breathe out of water any better that we =can in! If you run out of air so does he. Point keep them in the water = Message-----From: reed curry Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 7:05 PMSubject: Re: Catch and release The point I am usually trying to make is that the philosophy of =Catch and Release harms the fisherman ... the worst of it is that the = First, sorry for the non-rodmaking question, but. . . . Reed has =often made the point to any of us that would listen that catch and =release isn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard for 10 days =around Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of fish with big sores and =various deformities on their mouths. I was really bummed out. My =question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to lessen =impact on the fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C0436E.E3EB8320 -----OriginalHold your breath they can=92t breathe out of water any better that = If you run out of air so does he. Point keep them in the water as much = piscator@macatawa.org rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, October 31, 2000 7:05 PMSubject: Re: Catchand = Yes, I = usually trying to make is that the philosophy of Catch and Release = fisherman ... the worst of it is that the damage is not visible = ) Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ = First, sorry for the = made the point to any of us that would listen that catch and release = Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of fish with big sores and = question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to = ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C0436E.E3EB8320-- from zimmer@adams.net Tue Oct 31 20:30:06 2000 eA12U5G23232 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: RE: Catch and Release This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04379.53C81820 I do not believe that the philosophy of catch and release harms the =fisherman. To wit: I choose not to kill my quarry, if done properly I =feel the chance of the fishes survival is very good, certainly far =better than putting it in a creel. I know it is not everyone's choice, =but it is my choice to release. Perhaps I'll meet that fish again, =someday. Barbless, small hooks, never removing the fish from water's =support, forceps to quickly pop the hook out, and not overplaying the =fish to the exhaustion point will limit mortality to low (or no kill) =percentages. I quit hunting because I did not want to kill any more =wild creatures,and feel I can still hunt fish without killing them...how = ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04379.53C81820 I do not believe that the philosophy of catch and = harms the fisherman. To wit: I choose not to kill my quarry, if done = feel the chance of the fishes survival is very good, certainly far = putting it in a creel. I know it is not everyone's choice, but it is my = to release. Perhaps I'll meet that fish again, someday. Barbless, small = never removing the fish from water's support, forceps to quickly pop the = out, and not overplaying the fish to the exhaustion point will limit = want to kill any more wild creatures,and feel I can still hunt fish = killing them...how does this harm me? ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04379.53C81820-- from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Oct 31 20:37:21 2000 eA12bKG23474 Subject: Re: Catch and release This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04382.61715280 I think we all understand the basics of small hooks, land 'em or lose ='em, don't touch any more than required, and revive them if they need =it. My question is more along the line of, is anyone doing anything =exceptional like fishing hookless, catching and killing a couple of fish =and then quiting, and such. My animal rights wacko 11 year old daughter =just told me the other day, "You wouldn't fish if fish could scream." Brian Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 9:15 PMSubject: Re: Catch and release Hold your breath they can't breathe out of water any better that we =can in! If you run out of air so does he. Point keep them in the water = Message-----From: reed curry Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 7:05 PMSubject: Re: Catch and release The point I am usually trying to make is that the philosophy of =Catch and Release harms the fisherman ... the worst of it is that the = First, sorry for the non-rodmaking question, but. . . . Reed has =often made the point to any of us that would listen that catch and =release isn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard for 10 days =around Colorado Springs, and caught a LOT of fish with big sores and =various deformities on their mouths. I was really bummed out. My =question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to lessen =impact on the fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04382.61715280 I think we all understand the basics of = hooks, land 'em or lose 'em, don't touch any more than required, and = anything exceptional like fishing hookless, catching and killing a = scream." Brian ----- Original Message ----- Ronnie L. =Rees Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000= PMSubject: Re: Catch and =release Hold your breath they can’t breathe out of water any better = in! If you run out of air so does he. Point keep them in the water = as possable. Message-----From: reed curry piscator@macatawa.org = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, October 31, 2000 7:05 PMSubject: Re: Catch= Yes, = am usually trying to make is that the philosophy of Catch and = the fisherman ... the worst of it is that the damage is not = First, sorry for the = ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04382.61715280-- from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Oct 31 22:20:42 2000 eA14KfG25651 Subject: Re: Catch and release I used to cathch trout in CO that to had pretty disturbing scars. I think in the Frying pan's case it was from people using so many #6 stonefly nymphsand spinners with treble hooks. I always heard it as, "if worms could scream, there'd be alot less fishermen"... Rob from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 22:48:55 2000 eA14msG26079 20:48:56 PST Subject: Re: Catch and release chickens do scream and we still fish with dryflies. :-) timothy --- Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote:I used to cathch trout in CO that to had prettydisturbing scars. I think in the Frying pan's case it was from people using somany #6 stonefly nymphs and spinners with treble hooks. I always heard it as, "if worms could scream,there'd be alot less fishermen"... Rob ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from b2g@jps.net Tue Oct 31 23:42:07 2000 eA15g6G26915 Subject: Re: Catch and release Organization: Badges 2 Go This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0438B.DBA34780 Well, along with most everybody else I also practice Catch and Release =when possible. Using smaller flies is the key to aiding to a quick =release. And for myself, before I tie any fly I try and use a barbless =hook or a micro barbed (sometimes cheaper to buy) hook and smash the =barb with my tying vise. But there are times after netting a fish you =know that the fish you caught would not survive if released. I recall a =few years back I when fishing and I caught a nice white fish on a cold =February day, that I knew would not make it if I released it. That is =because the hook was not imbedded in his mouth but, through its eye and =into its eye socket perching into its bones. I think the fish wanted to =take a close look at this yummy treat and got snagged instead. If =release it would have been blind in that eye and as much handling of the =fish I had to do to retrieve the hook, was not good for the fish as =well. The point to this story is that once and a great while it may be =necessary to bring one fish home. Robert H. P.S. Sorry I had to give you my take on this subject. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0438B.DBA34780 Well, along with most everybody else I = and use a barbless hook or a micro barbed (sometimes cheaper to buy) = I recall a few years back I when fishing and I caught a nice white fish = because the hook was not imbedded in his mouth but, through its eye and = would have been blind in that eye and as much handling of the fish I had = fish home. Robert H. subject. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0438B.DBA34780-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Oct 31 23:49:32 2000 eA15nTG27182 Subject: Re: Catch and release The nice thing about fishing unlike hunting is you can't catch & releasewith agun, though I do from time to time hunt and use to hunt a lot.Here in the Antipodes the question of catch & release hasn't assumed thesameimperative it has in the US, it's still left to the individual with littlepleasure either way. The TV shows all harp on it and in the field at least infresh water there is a lot more releasing than there used to be. Salt waterfishing people do tend to catch to their limit and if they are law abidingstopfishing else keep going till they go off the bite and take their chances withthe law, happily enough (people with excess bags) get caught to make this apotentially expensive game. warrant special treatment and I admit this is an attitude of someone with avested interest. It could easily be argued the life of a trout is worth the same as that of aWhite Rhino for eg. especially to the trout in question finding itself in alanding net it's just a case of proximity to extinction of the species thattips the balance in the Rhino's favour however it has to be remembered thatthetrout lives in an environment of 100% predation. They eat living things andarethemselves eaten. In the wild Rhinos too live in a predatory environmenthowever a hell of a lot less Rhinos need to be born to live long enough tobreed and that would have to indicate that over all individual trout arenot assignificant to the success of the species as a Rhino individual is.To put things in perspective individual people are as significant to thespecies as individual trout except to the person in question.In both cases there are plenty and if the numbers decline provided theenvironment is friendly the numbers will increase rapidly. To kill all trout caught if you have a fully stocked refrigerator at home isgreedy and wasteful on the most basic level and anathema to anybodyconcernedwith preserving life for the sake of it or we with vested interests instockinglevels for our own reasons which can vary from a self interest of simplyhavingenough fish to catch when you want to go fishing to people with genuineextremely high regard to trout simply as trout. On the other hand to have legislation requiring all trout to be released seemsjust as bad. I can't comment with certainty on if a fish feels pain or has amemory. Knowing how gun shy fish can get with very heavily used patterns &techniques indicates a certain memory of some kind and fish don't exactly liecalmly as you kill one indicating some sensation of pain is also present sothe never eaten if caught ever is almost the same to my mind at least asstocking apaddock with calves that are roped and branded for pleasure. That's aridiculous situation I know but I'm willing to bet if such a place were set upit wouldn't be very long before the paddock would be filled with calves withbroken legs and brands covering every inch of hide. The calves wouldn't beveryhappy nor would an awful lot of people.Most people wouldn't partake but I'd bet plenty would and it would create acertain mind set amongst the people doing this that would not be foundanywhereelse. I wonder if the mind set would be that different to that which certainpeople would assume in mandatory catch & release waters?*You* may not agree with the calf comparison but I sure anti fishing nutscouldmake the connection very easily indeed and I have to admit the idea of wildanimals being legislated as being the re-usable play things of people strikesme as strange. I understand there are good reasons for doing this but it'sstill a somewhat strange and uncomfortable idea to me. I wonder what wouldhappen if calves didn't scream? the fish may not like being caught it possibly has at least two lifethreatening encounters daily anyhow and I am another predator that for themostpart at least doesn't *intend* any harm.Sometimes though I do actually want to eat a fish and I don't feel too badlyabout taking one for that purpose and also the occasional fish will be ableeder which can be something of a dilemma. Do you return it thinking it MAYsurvive and even if it doesn't it's protein will feed other members of thefoodchain or keep it because the food this fish no longer gets will assist in thefood chain to much the same degree?I know how annoyed we get when a marlin is taken by sharks when one is nexttothe boat being released yet we feel ok if we take a few fish for the table,butwe have shops, fridges and money while the shark has to earn a living as apartof the food chain.Basically as people we bugger up almost every aspect of the environment tosuchan extent we either kill everything off or artificially encourage it. We're apart of the environment but also transcend it. We also have our own ideas. I think the best we can do is legislate a sustainable bag limit and encourageat every chance people to be aware of their actions and take only what isrequired be that nothing or just enough. If this reduces the fish stocksenoughto be noticed we should look to the problem beyond the symptom of takingindividual fish and looking to why the problem of reducing fish stocks isoccurring.If the problem is simply too many people fishing the next stage is asking whythat is. If it's because the numbers are increasing because a few people aremaking a lot of money by treating fish as the means of getting too manypeopleinto fishing to sell gear etc possibly they should be looked at in the samewaywe look at strip miners and forest wood chippers. These people treat anaturalresource as something to be used, converted to cash and move on. Sure weallneed these products but there must be a limit? Bag limits wont prevent lawbreakers taking more than they should but mostpeople are responsible enough to either adhere to them or not takeanything. As andpowers of seizure. Tony At 09:34 PM 10/31/00 -0500, you wrote: I think we all understand the basics of small hooks, land 'em or lose 'em,don't touch any more than required, and revive them if they need it. Myquestion is more along the line of, is anyone doing anything exceptionallikefishing hookless, catching and killing a couple of fish and then quiting,andsuch. My animal rights wacko 11 year old daughter just told me the otherday, "You wouldn't fish if fish could scream." Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/