Thank you to all who responded to my =

Tony you were of great help to me. I glued up my first rod today. The =

time with Cascamite is very short but managed to get it all done as it =

to dry.I now would like to know what would the=

finishing material be?.(varnish). There will be more questions as I come =

new problems.

Thanks once againRegardsIan GornallSouthAfrica

--Boundary_(ID_zom/pPg3WOQj4nY52Z9CYw)--

from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Nov 12 19:16:42 2000

eAD1GfG18790

Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End)

I have a 7' 6", 3 piece Payne that I acquired through a floor trade of twoold
wood lures at a NFLCC or Antique Angler's show some dozen years ago. Cant
remember exactly which.  The rod as received had been stripped tobarecane,
both tips were short, the stripper guide, a few snakes, and the hookkeeper
had been saved, and the original bag and tube held it all.  Except

shape.  Within months of receiving the rod I had a replacement ferrule made

And then it got forgotten in a corner of my work area until this summer. 
Irefinished it a few months ago.  Made two new tips, used the old
ferrules,located a source of pinning wire, etc.  Wrapped the guides and used
shellacto seal the thread as Payne was reputed to do, then varnished it all.
Looks good and uses a #5 line, so will fish it this coming season.  I usedSnake
Brand guides in the refinish.  Had to make a new bag since the modernguides
are somewhat larger than the originals and the rod sections wouldnot slip
into the old bag.  I have a few old references to Payne rods butcannot find
anything that refers to a 7" 6" 3 piece model.  Does anyone outthere have a
model number for this rod?----------From: Dennishigham@cs.com

Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End)Date: Sunday,
November 12, 2000 11:59 AM

Marty-Wish I had the taper. The rod was an old one. I had to go back to a
1931 Payne catalog to find a 7',3 piece. The later catalogs I have didn't listit.
The model # is 196, a 3 piece 7', 2 7/8-3 1/8 oz rod. No line weightgiven. It
sold for 50.00 in 1931.Try overmywaders.com for Reed's site.

Dennis

from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 12 20:03:22 2000

eAD23LG19588

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)

"Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Ted K.'s Payne Rod

Ted,It will either be a 197 or a 198, depending on the weight of the
rod.According to the 1951 Payne catalog, if the rod is a "Dry Fly"
action,weighing between 3 1/2 ounces and 3 5/8 ounces it is a 197.  If its a
"FastDry Fly" action, weighing between 3 3/4 ounces and 3 7/8 ounces, then
it's a198... another kink here.  If it is a much earlier rod than that, such as

from the 30's to early 40's then it would be a 198, and would weigh between3
ounces and 3 1/4 ounces.  In many cases, the earlier rods used agate
tiptops, and of course, would have super tiny guides for silk line, but
thenagain, so would some of the 1950's and later rods.The weight is really
the key.  Now, these advertised weights are witha Skeleton Reel seat.  If the
rod has a screw locking reel seat then add 1/2ounce to the total weights
above to determine the model of the rod.All of this is 
from reproductions of early Payne Catalogs.  Hope thishelps.

Later,Bob-----Original Message-----

; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End)

I have a 7' 6", 3 piece Payne that I acquired through a floor trade of twoold
wood lures at a NFLCC or Antique Angler's show some dozen years ago.Cant
remember exactly which.  The rod as received had been stripped tobarecane,
both tips were short, the stripper guide, a few snakes, and the hookkeeper
had been saved, and the original bag and tube held it all.  Except

shape.  Within months of receiving the rod I had a replacement ferrule made

And then it got forgotten in a corner of my work area until this summer. 
Irefinished it a few months ago.  Made two new tips, used the old
ferrules,located a source of pinning wire, etc.  Wrapped the guides and used
shellacto seal the thread as Payne was reputed to do, then varnished it
all.Looks good and uses a #5 line, so will fish it this coming season.  I
usedSnake Brand guides in the refinish.  Had to make a new bag since
themodernguides are somewhat larger than the originals and the rod
sections wouldnot slip into the old bag.  I have a few old references to Payne
rods butcannot find anything that refers to a 7" 6" 3 piece model.  Does
anyone outthere have a model number for this rod?----------From:
Dennishigham@cs.com

Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End)Date: Sunday,
November 12, 2000 11:59 AM

Marty-Wish I had the taper. The rod was an old one. I had to go back to a
1931Payne catalog to find a 7',3 piece. The later catalogs I have didn't
listit.The model # is 196, a 3 piece 7', 2 7/8-3 1/8 oz rod. No line
weightgiven.It sold for 50.00 in 1931.Try overmywaders.com for Reed's site.

Dennis

from anglport@con2.com Sun Nov 12 21:01:34 2000

eAD31XG20589

Subject: Jack Frost rod

Hi all,Just got home 
from a weekend of steelie fishing in upstate NY. Alas, noGOOD news. Had a lot
of fun though. SAW some caught...When we got back to my buddy's home he
showed me a "Jack Frost"model,(approx) 9', flyrod. I was too exhausted to
take measurements, except tonote it has a walnut downlocking seat, an
EXTREMELY short (5" maybe?)handle and its rough length. It seems to me
this brand/model reared itsugly head on the list recently. Am I nuts or
correct...nah, don't bothertelling me I'm both, I know that!Can anyone
help?Thanks,Art

from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Nov 12 21:55:22 2000

eAD3tLG21711

Subject: Re: Ted K.'s Payne Rod

Bob, your info is much appreciated. I weighed the rod and found it to be3.9
oz.  I believe the rod is quite early.  The few guides that came withit were
quite small.  Also, the stripper agate has a groove round itsperimeter into
which the wire frame fits, unlike modern agate guides. There is a fair amount
of "ridging" in the cork grip which is usually asign of age.  
from what you have said it sounds like the rod is a model#198.   The reel
seat on this rod is cap and band over a walnut filler.

Regards, Ted

----------From: Bob Nunley 

Subject: Ted K.'s Payne RodDate: Sunday, November 12, 2000 8:57 PM

Ted,It will either be a 197 or a 198, depending on the weight of the
rod.According to the 1951 Payne catalog, if the rod is a "Dry Fly"
action,weighing between 3 1/2 ounces and 3 5/8 ounces it is a 197.  If its
a"FastDry Fly" action, weighing between 3 3/4 ounces and 3 7/8 ounces,
thenit's a198... another kink here.  If it is a much earlier rod than that, such
as

from the 30's to early 40's then it would be a 198, and would weighbetween3
ounces and 3 1/4 ounces.  In many cases, the earlier rods used agatetiptops,
and of course, would have super tiny guides for silk line, but thenagain, so
would some of the 1950's and later rods.The weight is really the key.  Now,
these advertised weights arewitha Skeleton Reel seat.  If the rod has a
screw locking reel seat then add1/2ounce to the total weights above to
determine the model of the rod.All of this is 
from reproductions of early Payne Catalogs.  Hope thishelps.

Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Ted Knott 

; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Date: Sunday, November 12, 2000 7:10 PMSubject: Re: Presidential Election
(The End Of The End)

I have a 7' 6", 3 piece Payne that I acquired through a floor trade oftwoold
wood lures at a NFLCC or Antique Angler's show some dozen yearsago.Cant
remember exactly which.  The rod as received had been stripped tobarecane,
both tips were short, the stripper guide, a few snakes, and thehookkeeper
had been saved, and the original bag and tube held it all. Except

shape.  Within months of receiving the rod I had a replacement ferrulemade

And then it got forgotten in a corner of my work area until this
summer.Irefinished it a few months ago.  Made two new tips, used the
oldferrules,located a source of pinning wire, etc.  Wrapped the guides and
usedshellacto seal the thread as Payne was reputed to do, then varnished it
all.Looks good and uses a #5 line, so will fish it this coming season. 
IusedSnake Brand guides in the refinish.  Had to make a new bag since
themodernguides are somewhat larger than the originals and the rod
sections wouldnot slip into the old bag.  I have a few old references to Payne
rodsbutcannot find anything that refers to a 7" 6" 3 piece model.  Does
anyoneoutthere have a model number for this rod?----------From:
Dennishigham@cs.com

Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End)Date: Sunday,
November 12, 2000 11:59 AM

Marty-Wish I had the taper. The rod was an old one. I had to go back to
a1931Payne catalog to find a 7',3 piece. The later catalogs I have
didn'tlistit.The model # is 196, a 3 piece 7', 2 7/8-3 1/8 oz rod. No line
weightgiven.It sold for 50.00 in 1931.Try overmywaders.com for Reed's site.

Dennis

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 13 07:49:51 2000

eADDnoG27050

05:49:53 PST

Subject: Re: Presidential Election OR Who shot JR?

all,  it seems this bamboo and flyrod stuff stillcontinues to intrude upon the
political discussion andparty line preachers.  i propose that we start a
newnewsgroup for those intrested in bamboo flyrodconstruction.  timothy

--- John Kenealy wrote:Dear Mr. Young,

There is a HUGE difference!!!  The "divine" right ofmonarchs is derived
through fertility- usually ofcousins procreating with cousins.  Sounds like
overdressed "trailer trash" to me.

Judges, on the other hand are not empowered through"divine" right.  Unless
you mean through the divineright given by the people.  Judges in the USA
areeither given office through a direct vote or areappointed (not anointed!)
by those in executiveoffice who were elected by citizens.The judgment in this
case will be based on rule oflaw and not on rule of sperm and egg!

John Kenealy

----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Young 

Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 1:27 AMSubject: Presidential Election
OR Who shot JR?

Guys, I know I shouldn't write this but I've gotasay not only is theoutcome of
the election in the US as riveting asthe old Dallas Who shot JRcliffhanger but
it's taking almost as long to findthe answer :-)

I must ask this though. Can anybody truly with aclear heart tell thedifference
in how a decesion is made between amonarch ruling by the divineright given
by a mob of bishops and a leaderchosen by the divine right ofa court? I hope
for the good of all the decisionisn't made in a cloisteredroom.

Tony (the NOT) constitunional lawer.

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

"The difference between fiction and reality?Fiction has to make sense. " -
Tom Clancy 

/*************************************************************************/

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the
holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/

from briansr@point-net.com Mon Nov 13 08:11:55 2000

eADEBsG27964

Subject: ferrules(again)

Hi folksI had the opportunity last week to try an old English rod(Scottie)
Whatsurprised me was that the cane at the ferrules was turned down making
themetal flush with the cane.doesn't this run against conventional
wisdom?Doany of you try for this look ?Or do all attempt ,as I , to keep as
much caneat the ferrule station ?TIA Brian

from briansr@point-net.com Mon Nov 13 08:11:56 2000

eADEBtG27969

Subject: Impreg. blanks

Otherv than Partridege,does anyone know who ,if any,
makes/madeimpregnatedblanks with brass ferrules??TIA Brian

from danny.twang@pd.no Mon Nov 13 08:14:56 2000

eADEEtG28347

"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Impreg. blanks

Brian,

In UK there is Chapman & Bros. and Sharps, I`m sure there is more, Paul
Bprobably know more.....................

regardsdanny

brian sturrock wrote:

Otherv than Partridege,does anyone know who ,if any,
makes/madeimpregnatedblanks with brass ferrules??TIA Brian

from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 13 08:31:04 2000

eADEV3G29111

Subject: Re: ferrules(again)

http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm

Hi Brian:I just replaced some step down ferrules on an old SB, and they have
a lot ofcane removed. It does seem against what we think is correct.Bob

Hi folksI had the opportunity last week to try an old English rod(Scottie)
Whatsurprised me was that the cane at the ferrules was turned down
makingthemetal flush with the cane.doesn't this run against conventional
wisdom?Doany of you try for this look ?Or do all attempt ,as I , to keep as
much cane

at the ferrule station ?TIA Brian

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 13 09:03:04 2000

eADF31G00679

Subject: Re: ferrules(again)

That seems to be the way they used to do this. Although I normally run a mile
as soon as somebody drags out an old Englishrug beater I've refinished a few
old Brit rods and have seen some withfailure of the glue along the rod 
from the ferrule and up 3-4 inches or sobut not across as you'd expect with
the amount of bamboo removed.I don't know if this is a result of the amount
of bamboo removed and thesplines just give out or simply the ferrule
loosening and the pin splittingthe spline's glue line.Maybe it does weaken the
rods to failure and they don't get repaired allthat often so you never see
them?

Ian may have some ideas about the English rods.

Tony

At 09:07 AM 11/13/00 -0500, brian sturrock wrote:Hi folksI had the
opportunity last week to try an old English rod(Scottie) Whatsurprised me
was that the cane at the ferrules was turned down makingthemetal flush
with the cane.doesn't this run against conventional wisdom?Doany of you try
for this look ?Or do all attempt ,as I , to keep as much caneat the ferrule
station ?TIA Brian

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " -
Tom Clancy 

/*************************************************************************/

from idinsy@global.co.za Mon Nov 13 09:36:21 2000

eADFaKG01929

sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10)

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:36:07 +0200 (SAT)

Subject: ferrules and tip tops

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_nehMa0k6oVKx/PH51WuIFQ)

Hi

I need to order a ferrule set and a tip top for the blank I have just
=completed. The tip top diameter is .090 and the butt end of the tip
=section is 2.09 and the tip end of the butt section is the same (2.09). =I
would prefere nicol silver for the ferrule. Can anybody help me?. I =would
need these parts posted to me in South Africa. My E-mail address =is
idinsy@global.co.za. I will make payment though a credit card =transaction.
Please remember the exchange rate SA rand to US dollar is =about 7.5 rands
to the dollar.I really need your help on this one.Kind regards

Ian

--Boundary_(ID_nehMa0k6oVKx/PH51WuIFQ)

Hi

I need to order a ferrule set and a tip =

blank I have just completed. The tip top diameter is .090 and the butt =

the tip section is 2.09 and the tip end of the butt section is the same =

I would prefere nicol silver for the ferrule. Can anybody help me?. I =

these parts posted to me in South Africa. My E-mail address is
idinsy@global.co.za. I will =

though a credit card transaction. Please remember the exchange rate SA =

US dollar is about 7.5 rands to the dollar.I really need your help on this
=one.Kind regards

Ian

--Boundary_(ID_nehMa0k6oVKx/PH51WuIFQ)--

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 13 10:41:15 2000

eADGfFG04902

with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:43:26 -0800

Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules

eADGfFG04903

Ralf,

I've used Brownell's Perma Blue liquid and had the same flaking of the
ferrulefinish.  It isn't the ferrule, it's the amount of time in the liquid. If it
flakesthen decrease the exposure time some.  Clean up the ferrule with steel
wool,degrease, and do it over.  Start with about half the time, and if not
darkenough, then dip again for a few more seconds.  I also occasionally use
aproduct called Pewter Black to get a grey pewter finish on my ferrules. 
Ifleft in the solution too long it will flake as well.   With the Payne
formulathere is also a line where too much exposure will dull and discolor the
finish. The older the formula the shorter the time.  

Chris

from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Nov 13 10:55:41 2000

eADGteG05904

IAA01499

(5.5.2650.21)

Subject: wood workers show

I went to the wood workers show in Seattle this weekend and there musthave
been about 10 booths selling the small jet wood lathe for $325. I talkedto
some pen makers and they said that they could not find and faults with
it.They thought that it would be perfect for turning the blank ends for
ferrulesand for turning cork grips. The hole through the head stock is 3/8"
and Ithink that it is 14' between centers. I  bought a rule 
from incra for $13, thatis flexible, to wrap around a 1 1/2" D. culm that is
marked off in 32nds withlittle slits that .5 mm lead fit perfect. Also found
another bronze block planemade by bridge city tool works. No financial
interest just passing along theinfo. Bought the flexible rule and marked out a
2 1/2" D. culm last night andit worked absolutely perfect.

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Nov 13 11:38:27 2000

eADHcQG08223

Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:38:27 +0000

"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Impreg. blanks

Paul B here !!!!!Chapmans will make you an impregnated blank as will Sharps (
yes thename is still in existence although Sharpes per se only make
graphite)under the ownership of others.The other UK maker of Impregnated
Blanks ( and in my oppinion by far thebest.....ex Partridge ) is Colin Young of
Orion Fly Rods.If you need any direct contact addresses/fax/ tel numbers
etc pleasecontact me off the list.If you only need Brass ferrules .....again
contact me off list.Note; as for Tony Y keeping away 
from British Rods......so do I.....andIam  a  Brit !

Danny Twang wrote:

Brian,

In UK there is Chapman & Bros. and Sharps, I`m sure there is more, Paul
Bprobably know more.....................

regardsdanny

brian sturrock wrote:

Otherv than Partridege,does anyone know who ,if any,
makes/madeimpregnatedblanks with brass ferrules??TIA Brian

from idinsy@global.co.za Mon Nov 13 12:57:34 2000

eADIvWG11101

+0200 (SAT)

Subject: Ferrules

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04DB4.EF3F29C0

Hi

Thanks Bob for the reply and to all the others. Bob the rod I am =attempting
for my first time is the "Brookie" which you posted after the =SRG2000. I
was a little scared planning the tip top any smaller for may =first attempt.
However I might just try scrapping a little more off the =last 3 to 4 inches to
make the diameter about .080.Sorry I screwed with =the ferrule dimensions
.209 (not 2.09) we work in mm here. I guess I =will just have to attempt
making my own ferrules for now as it would =cost over R350.00 at lot of
money down here. Could someone post the full =dimension for a 14/64
ferrule.

Thanks once againIan

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04DB4.EF3F29C0

Hi

Thanks Bob for the reply and to all the=

the rod I am attempting for my first time is the "Brookie" which you =

after the SRG2000. I was a little scared planning the tip top any =

may first attempt. However I might just try scrapping a little more off =

3 to 4 inches to make the diameter about .080.Sorry I screwed with the =

dimensions .209 (not 2.09) we work in mm here. I guess I will just have =

attempt making my own ferrules for now as it would cost over R350.00 at =

ferrule.

Thanks once againIan

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04DB4.EF3F29C0--

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 13 13:35:37 2000

eADJZbG12771

with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:37:47 -0800

Subject: Re: Ferrules

eADJZbG12772

Ian,

What is the exchange rate for Rands per dollar?  Ferrules in the U.S.
costabout $50.00 plus shipping for a two male set.  

Chris

"Iis"  11/13/00 11:01AM >>>Hi

Thanks Bob for the reply and to all the others. Bob the rod I am attempting

a little scared planning the tip top any smaller for may first
attempt.However I might just try scrapping a little more off the last 3 to 4
inches tomake the diameter about .080.Sorry I screwed with the ferrule
dimensions.209 (not 2.09) we work in mm here. I guess I will just have to
attemptmaking my own ferrules for now as it would cost over R350.00 at lot
ofmoney down here. Could someone post the full dimension for a
14/64ferrule.

Thanks once againIan

from Canerods@aol.com Mon Nov 13 13:48:57 2000

eADJmvG13469

Subject: Re: Ferrules

In a message dated 11/13/00 11:00:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, 

Ian,

Why not install a set of 14/64 Ni-plated brass ferrules? Cost is about $4.00
(US) - much cheaper than the good NS stuff, but the price is right.

Or have Tony Young make a set and convert 
from Rands to Aus$ - maybe the exchange rate would be better?

Don Burns

from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 13 17:38:02 2000

eADNc1G22341

Subject: Re: Ferrules

The Australian dollar is only .52 cents to our dollar now, so that wouldalmost
cut your cost in half. Tony Young get about $30 for a set, down inOZ, so
that's only $17 U.S. !

GMA

from Canerods@aol.com Mon Nov 13 17:58:34 2000

eADNwXG22813

Subject: AJ rod and Florida Lottery Numbers

Dear Sir:

I was filling out my lottery ticket yesterday so that I could buy a new bamboo
rod 
from AJ Thramer with my winnings and the ticket was soconfusing that I
picked all the wrong numbers. 

I am pretty sure because they were not on the TV this morning. Now I haveto
do it all over again. If you don't let me do it over again I will sue.

from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Nov 13 18:03:30 2000

eAE03TG22970

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: ferrules(again)

Just goes to show that Bamboo is powerfull stuff. Another point I couldnever
understand is why the "old" makers widdled down the high points ofthe hex on
the tips to accomadate the barrel of the tip top instead ofusing one large
enough . That is a very thin section that needs all the"meat" it can get.
Marty

Hi Brian:I just replaced some step down ferrules on an old SB, and they have
a lot ofcane removed. It does seem against what we think is correct.Bob

Hi folksI had the opportunity last week to try an old English rod(Scottie)
Whatsurprised me was that the cane at the ferrules was turned down
makingthemetal flush with the cane.doesn't this run against
conventionalwisdom?Doany of you try for this look ?Or do all attempt ,as I ,
to keep as muchcane

at the ferrule station ?TIA Brian

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

from hartzell@easystreet.com Mon Nov 13 18:12:33 2000

eAE0CXG23290

QAA05339;

Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End)

Ted,I have a 7'6" Payne 3 piece that takes a five that came to me
somwehatlike yours.  I remember trying to find the number and I inked on the
case#198.  Not sure that that is right.  The rod is very fine. I used it in NZ
andlanded big fish with it without any sign of   failure. Peter  McVey up in
BCcast it 80 feet.  I understand that Ron Barch made one 
from mymeasurements.  Ihad to make two new tips and a new mid.Ed Hartzell

Ted Knott wrote:

I have a 7' 6", 3 piece Payne that I acquired through a floor trade of twoold
wood lures at a NFLCC or Antique Angler's show some dozen years ago.Cant
remember exactly which.  The rod as received had been stripped tobarecane,
both tips were short, the stripper guide, a few snakes, and the hookkeeper
had been saved, and the original bag and tube held it all.  Except

shape.  Within months of receiving the rod I had a replacement ferrulemade

And then it got forgotten in a corner of my work area until this summer. 
Irefinished it a few months ago.  Made two new tips, used the old
ferrules,located a source of pinning wire, etc.  Wrapped the guides and used
shellacto seal the thread as Payne was reputed to do, then varnished it
all.Looks good and uses a #5 line, so will fish it this coming season.  I
usedSnake Brand guides in the refinish.  Had to make a new bag since
themodernguides are somewhat larger than the originals and the rod
sections wouldnot slip into the old bag.  I have a few old references to Payne
rods butcannot find anything that refers to a 7" 6" 3 piece model.  Does
anyone outthere have a model number for this rod?----------From:
Dennishigham@cs.com

Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End)Date: Sunday,
November 12, 2000 11:59 AM

Marty-Wish I had the taper. The rod was an old one. I had to go back to a
1931Payne catalog to find a 7',3 piece. The later catalogs I have didn't
listit.The model # is 196, a 3 piece 7', 2 7/8-3 1/8 oz rod. No line
weightgiven.It sold for 50.00 in 1931.Try overmywaders.com for Reed's site.

Dennis

from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon Nov 13 18:13:01 2000

eAE0D0G23372

Subject: Lathes (Again)

I am debating purchasing a mini-lathe to turn wood inserts, cork grips,blanks
for ferrule seating.  I have narrowed my selection down to thefollowing:

Jet Mini-LatheDelta Midi-Lathe (46-250)Carbatec Mini Lathe

Anyone with experience with any of the above lathes?

Thanks in advance

Joe

=================================================Lost in the
Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the
other....."What a Great Life"

from BambooRods@aol.com Mon Nov 13 19:25:11 2000

eAE1PAG25110

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

Don't know how the Taig Lathe fits for others out there but... I have found it
to be an excellent choice and great for small shops. Very sound and very
quiet.  Check out:http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.htmlDoug HallBroad
River Bamboo

from bamboo@pa.net Mon Nov 13 20:01:54 2000

eAE21rG25853

Subject: Tom Maxwell rod

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C04DB5.76017440

Can anyone help me with the value of Tom Maxwell     TLM 8' 3pc 5# in =near
mint condition.  Sorry if this is inappropriate for the list.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C04DB5.76017440

Can anyone help me with the value of =

Sorry if this is inappropriate for the list.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C04DB5.76017440--

from bamboo@pa.net Mon Nov 13 20:14:45 2000

eAE2EiG26307

Subject: Tom Maxwell rod

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C04DB7.44C21D60

Can anyone help me with the value of Tom Maxwell    TLM 8'3pc5# in near
=mint condition.  Sorry if this is inappropriate for the list.

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C04DB7.44C21D60

Can anyone help me with the value of =

this is inappropriate for the list.

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C04DB7.44C21D60--

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 13 20:32:59 2000

eAE2WwG26936

VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

Subject: RE: Lathes (Again)

I too have a taig lathe which has been very good for ferrule stations,grips,
lapping ferrules, etc. Keep in mind, though, that it doesn't dothreads. In
retrospect, were I to buy my first lathe again, I would choosesomething that
cuts threads. This would allow you to make locking reelseats, your own rod
tubes with caps, etc. Plus, metal work is really funwhen you get into it.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

BambooRods@aol.comSent: Monday, November 13, 2000 8:25 PM

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

Don't know how the Taig Lathe fits for others out therebut... I have foundit
to be an excellent choice and great for small shops. Verysound and
veryquiet.  Check out:http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.htmlDoug
HallBroad River Bamboo

from tcwege@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 13 21:01:22 2000

eAE31LG27500

;Tue, 14 Nov 2000 03:01:18 +0000

Subject: RE: Lathes (Again)

I'll throw in my newbie $0.02 here. I just ordered one of the Chinese7X10's.
One of the reasons I picked it over others is the ability to cutthreads. I think
this little lathe is worth a second look. IMHO of course.Tilo

-----Original Message-----

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Lathes (Again)

I too have a taig lathe which has been very good for ferrule stations,grips,
lapping ferrules, etc. Keep in mind, though, that it doesn't dothreads. In
retrospect, were I to buy my first lathe again, I would choosesomething that
cuts threads. This would allow you to make locking reelseats, your own rod
tubes with caps, etc. Plus, metal work is really funwhen you get into it.

Richard

from channer1@rmi.net Mon Nov 13 21:04:56 2000

eAE34tG27656

Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules

Perma Blue is for bluing steel, not nickel or brass, try Brass
Blackinstead.John

Christopher McDowell wrote:

Ralf,

I've used Brownell's Perma Blue liquid and had the same flaking of theferrule
finish.  It isn't the ferrule, it's the amount of time in the liquid. If itflakes
then decrease the exposure time some.  Clean up the ferrule withsteel wool,
degrease, and do it over.  Start with about half the time, and ifnot dark
enough, then dip again for a few more seconds.  I also occasionallyuse a
product called Pewter Black to get a grey pewter finish on my ferrules. If
left in the solution too long it will flake as well.   With the Payne formulathere
is also a line where too much exposure will dull and discolor the finish. The
older the formula the shorter the time.

Chris

from piscator@macatawa.org Mon Nov 13 21:17:43 2000

eAE3HgG28049

Subject: Cheap Lathe Option

Hi Y'all,

I just bought a Grizzly 7"x10" metal lathe 
from their outlet page for $299.I know it's a little on the small side, but it will
cut thread, comes with a3-jaw chuck, and if you take off the tail stock you
can turn grips handily(though you might want to rig up a steady rest for the
reel seat end).  I'vebeen using my monster (16" x 48") wood lathe and while it
works okay, its areal production to change over and the garage gets pretty
cold in the famousMichigan winters.  This little guy will go in my basement
shop.

No commercial interest and etc.

Brian "I didn't even mention the election 'til now" Creek

from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Nov 13 21:23:49 2000

eAE3NmG28253

Subject: Non-US lathes--question

is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C04DC0.64C278E0

Guys,I've noticed a lot of interest in the oriental made lathes and most
=concern short (ie 10") lathe beds. My question is whether it costs a lot
=more to get a lathe with a longer bed (ie 30")?  My reason for asking is
=that I really hate to see someone invest in a machine tool with a rather
=restricted use.  What I'm getting at is that, would it not be better to =pay
say an extra $100.00 to get the longer bed lathe (which by the way =would
sell quicker on the used tool market) than to pay less and be =relatively
restricted in the things you can or might later want to do?

The above is merely for thought, as I already own enough lathe for my =use 
and can't really envision buying another, I just would hate to know =that one
of the rod buddies didn't buy enough lathe the first time =around.Any
thoughts are welcomed!

Mike

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C04DC0.64C278E0

Guys,I've noticed a lot of interest in the =

lathes and most concern short (ie 10") lathe beds. My question is =

asking is that I really hate to see someone invest in a machine tool =

to pay say an extra $100.00 to get the longer bed lathe (which by the =

sell quicker on the used tool market) than to pay less and be relatively =

restricted in the things you can or might later want to do?

The above is merely for thought, as I =

would hate to know that one of the rod buddies didn't buy enough lathe =

time around.Any thoughts arewelcomed!

Mike

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C04DC0.64C278E0--

from owen@davies.mv.com Mon Nov 13 21:34:09 2000

eAE3Y8G28688

"Bamboo Flyrod List" 

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

Joe asked:

I am debating purchasing a mini-lathe to turn wood inserts, cork grips,blanks
for ferrule seating.  I have narrowed my selection down to thefollowing:

Jet Mini-LatheDelta Midi-Lathe (46-250)Carbatec Mini Lathe

Anyone with experience with any of the above lathes?

I have a Jet Mini-Lathe.  Great little machine.  About the only thingI'd change
would be to give it a good variable-speed drive -- massivelyunnecessary at
this scale, but still nice to have -- and a provision forbed extensions.

The Delta will take extensions, but I have not used one and have yetto see a
thorough review of it.  Should be one soon onrec.crafts.woodturning .

The Carbatec I have only seen.  Considered it when buying my firstlathe, and
decided that there were more capable machines for not toomuch more
money.  The price of the Carbatec has come down sincethen, and they've
come out with the variable-speed model.  The VSCarbatec had problems with
the controller early on, but I believe theygot that fixed.  However, you don't
hear nearly as much about them thesedays as you did before the Jet came
out.

In all, the consensus among turners seems to be that the Jet is thesweet
spot in the minilathe market at the moment -- unless you canafford a
Oneway 1018, for only $1350!  That could change as theDelta and the
Teknatool Mercury become more familiar, but it's toughto see how much
better they can be (aside 
from the Delta's extension.)

Owen Davies

from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Mon Nov 13 21:35:39 2000

eAE3ZcG28833

Subject: Re: AJ rod and Florida Lottery Numbers

Thanks for making me laugh, I almost made it thru the day without a good
chuckle, Jim

some kind soul wrote earlier :

I was filling out my lottery ticket yesterday so that I could buy anew bamboo
rod 
from AJ Thramer with my winnings and the ticket was soconfusing that I
picked all the wrong numbers. 

I am pretty sure because they were not on the TV this morning. Now Ihave to
do it all over again. If you don't let me do it over again Iwill sue.

from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Nov 13 22:28:40 2000

eAE4SdG00057

Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:28:37 -0800

Tue, 14 Nov 2000 04:28:37 GMT

Subject: Re: AJ rod and Florida Lottery Numbers

FILETIME=[5B8D6A40:01C04DF3]

From: Canerods@aol.com

Subject: AJ rod and Florida Lottery NumbersDate: Mon, 13 Nov 2000
18:57:56 EST

Dear Sir:

I was filling out my lottery ticket yesterday so that I could buy a newbamboo
rod 
from AJ Thramer with my winnings and the ticket was soconfusingthat I
picked all the wrong numbers.

I am pretty sure because they were not on the TV this morning. Now I have
todo it all over again. If you don't let me do it over again I will sue.

Dear Sir,

As the potential litigant in this inappropriatly punched lottery card fiasco
that seems to be all the rage in Florida I have secured the services of the
prestigious lawyer dude firm of Dewey, Cheatum & Howe. These eminent law
guys have been dispatched posthaste to rectify(intimidate) this unseemly
situation.

The numbers did not appear on the tele as the D,C&H firm recieved an
injunction against the lottery commission forcing them to divine the correct
numbers by the the reliable envelope/Carnac method. The numbers were
rejected due to the commission members not wearing the
appropriateheadgear.

The commission has recieved relief 
from the injuction by signing a declaration that in the future ALL lottery
proceeds in the future will be paid in the form of cane rods and silk fly lines.

I hope that you have found the solution to your difficulty satisfactory.

If I may be of assistance in the future,

I am your most humble rodbuilder,

toungue firmly in cheek,

(s)A.J.Thramer

_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail 
from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.

from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Nov 14 03:24:57 2000

eAE9OsG04574

eAE9Omx45155;

Subject: Re: Ferrules

Organization: vet

Don

The exchange rate on 1 oz packets of frozen whale spit would be better
thanthe $Australian at this time!

Peter----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Ferrules

In a message dated 11/13/00 11:00:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Thanks Bob for the reply and to all the others. Bob the rod I amattempting

wasa little scared planning the tip top any smaller for may first
attempt.However I might just try scrapping a little more off the last 3 to
4inchesto make the diameter about .080.Sorry I screwed with the
ferruledimensions.209 (not 2.09) we work in mm here. I guess I will just have
to attemptmaking my own ferrules for now as it would cost over R350.00 at
lot ofmoneydown here. Could someone post the full dimension for a 14/64
ferrule.

Thanks once againIan

Ian,

Why not install a set of 14/64 Ni-plated brass ferrules? Cost is
about$4.00(US) - much cheaper than the good NS stuff, but the price is
right.

Or have Tony Young make a set and convert 
from Rands to Aus$ - maybetheexchange rate would be better?

Don Burns

from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Nov 14 03:48:22 2000

eAE9mJG04837

eAE9m6x47103;

Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules

Organization: vet

Chris

As I have said before, I am one of those who use photo fixer and hardener

you find with the Perma Blue.

If you leave it in for the protracted times recommended, you get sort
ofmicro-pitting of the surface, and odd colours which might not be so bad
tolook at, but are quite unpredictable. If you control the process
visually,getting the stuff out of the solution when it looks right and rinsing
itwell immediately under running water, it  works like a dream.

I just did a set of REC's Garrison-style reel seat fittings tonight, andthey
have come out dark inky black, rich and even.

I meant to mention on this subject some time ago, but forgot, that a yearago
or so I blued the nickel silver lugs on the scales of a pocket knifejust to see
if it was acceptably durable. I use this knife many times a day,taking it in and
out of a form fitting leather belt pouch  every time, andthe bluing lasts very
well - not perfect, but then the blued bits of myStephen Grant 12 gauge
show signs of wear, too, after a time, and that wasblued by the maker in
London.

All the best

Peter----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules

Ralf,

I've used Brownell's Perma Blue liquid and had the same flaking of theferrule
finish.  It isn't the ferrule, it's the amount of time in theliquid. If it flakes
then decrease the exposure time some.  Clean up theferrule with steel wool,
degrease, and do it over.  Start with about halfthe time, and if not dark
enough, then dip again for a few more seconds.  Ialso occasionally use a
product called Pewter Black to get a grey pewterfinish on my ferrules.  If
left in the solution too long it will flake aswell.   With the Payne formula there
is also a line where too much exposurewill dull and discolor the finish.  The
older the formula the shorter thetime.

Chris

from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Tue Nov 14 04:34:272000

eAEAYQG05245

helo=default)

Subject: UK rodmakers gathering 2001

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C04E28.13C4D920

Dear friends,

Much inspired by reading about our American cousins rodmaker =gatherings
we hope to copy their great success by holding a meeting in =the UK during
the summer of 2001.  The date and venue are yet to be =arranged but we
will be in Yorkshire for a weekend of discussions, =talks, displays and fishing. 
The weekend will be run on a non-profit =basis and both professional and
amateur builders are invited to attend.  =If any list member would be
interested in attending then please contact =either me
at:rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.ukor Paul Blakeley
at:paul.blakeley@ntlworld.com

At the moment we are just drawing a list of interested parties, we =will get
back to you with more concrete ideas when we have an idea of =numbers. 
We look forward to hearing 
from you.Tight lines,

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C04E28.13C4D920

Dear friends,

about our American cousins rodmaker gatherings we hope to copy their =

and venue are yet to be arranged but we will be in Yorkshire for a =

non-profit basis and both professional and amateur builders are invited =

contact either me at:rodmaker@beccles=workshop.freeserve.co.ukor Paul
Blakeleyat:paul.blakeley@ntlworld.com=

moment we =

drawing a list of interested parties, we will get back to you with more =

you.Tight =lines,Mark =

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C04E28.13C4D920--

from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Nov 14 06:49:04 2000

eAECn3G07108

hme0.telusplanet.net

Tue, 14 Nov 2000 05:49:00 -0700

Subject: Re: Non-US lathes--question

Mike,

I've got a Myford Super 7 with the shorter bed [19"} and really wishedthat I'd
got the longer [ 30"] bed.  Would have found it useful a numberof times.

Don

At 10:23 PM 11/13/00 -0500, mike shaffer wrote: 

ArialGuys,

I've noticed a lot of interest in the oriental made lathes and mostconcern
short (ie 10") lathe beds. My question is whether it costs a lotmore to get a
lathe with a longer bed (ie 30")?  My reason for asking isthat I really hate to
see someone invest in a machine tool with a ratherrestricted use.  What I'm
getting at is that, would it not be better topay say an extra $100.00 to get
the longer bed lathe (which by the waywould sell quicker on the used tool
market) than to pay less and berelatively restricted in the things you can or
might later want to do?

ArialThe above is merely forthought,as I already own enough lathe for my use 
and can't really envisionbuying another, I just would hate to know that one of
the rod buddiesdidn't buy enough lathe the first time around.

Any thoughts are welcomed!

ArialMike

from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 14 07:11:48 2000

eAEDBlG07929

+0000

Subject: Edwards Quad

Hello All,

from danny.twang@pd.no Tue Nov 14 07:19:27 2000

eAEDJPG08109

Subject: Re: Edwards Quad

Yes, Steve, it came through.

danny

Steve Trauthwein wrote:

Hello All,

Sent a taper to the list the other day. Did it show up?

from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 14 07:29:19 2000

eAEDTIG08387

+0000

Subject: Paul Young Glue

I was looking through a '75 catalog 
from the Paul Young rod co. afterseeing the photos of twisted rods and the
blurbs about there glue holingunder boiling water I was just curious. Does
anyone know what type ofglue that Young rods used.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 14 09:25:34 2000

eAEFPOG11501

Subject: Re: Paul Young Glue

I never found out. He wrote me often about it, and that he only neededboiled
linseed oil for his personal rods, as his glue was so unaffected bywater !
There was a man who lost his in salt water, and when found aftersome
months, it only needed cleaning ! I'm speaking 1954-55 here.

GMA

from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Tue Nov 14 10:34:10 2000

eAEGY9G15887

Comments: Authenticated sender is 

Organization: Missouri House of Representatives

Subject: Re: Paul Young Glue

To Steve and the List:

Marty Keane once told me that immediately after World War II there were all
kinds of glues made to military specs available as surplus.  Many of the rod
makers tried many of the glues.  He said that Young glued up some sections
with several different glue types and put them out on the roof of his shop
for a year or so as a durablility test.  I have no idea exactly which glues were
used and which passed the test; with the wide variety of surplus glues
available, it may be very hard to track down and may have changed over
time.

Hope this helps...

Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us

from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 14 11:15:23 2000

eAEHFNG17467

Subject: Re: Non-US lathes--question

Mike, there in more than one side to this issue.  Along with bed length comes
weight.   The longer bed is useful only if it's used.  The ability to turn larger
projects is useful only if one needs or want's to turn large pieces of material.

There is a "sweet spot" where the tool does everything the user want's it to
do and  only what he want's it to do.  Neither to big nor to small, neither
under or over versatile.  Each of us try to find things that fit this  idea.  For
me, the lathe needed to be light enough to move easily but heavy enough to
be stable.  It needed to be cheap enough to fit my budget.  It needed to be
the size to fit my projects.  It needed to be complete enough that I would not
have to buy accessories for every task I wanted to do.  For me, the sweet
spot is the 7x12.  But it was not available when I bought the 7x10 three
years ago.  After using the lathe 

to my idea of what I needed and wanted.  I am perfectly happy with it.

Anyone who decides to buy a tool such as a lathe should first decide what he
wants in a lathe and buy the one that fits.  To buy one to small will only
disillusion.  One to big will do the same thing.  Find that "sweet spot" and get
the closest one to it.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:23 PM 11/13/00 -0500, mike shaffer wrote:Guys,I've noticed a lot of
interest in the oriental made lathes and most concern short (ie 10") lathe
beds. My question is whether it costs a lot more to get a lathe with a longer
bed (ie 30")?  My reason for asking is that I really hate to see someone
invest in a machine tool with a rather restricted use.  What I'm getting at is
that, would it not be better to pay say an extra $100.00 to get the longer
bed lathe (which by the way would sell quicker on the used tool market) than
to pay less and be relatively restricted in the things you can or might later
want to do?

The above is merely for thought, as I already own enough lathe for my use 
and can't really envision buying another, I just would hate to know that one of
the rod buddies didn't buy enough lathe the first time around.Any thoughts
are welcomed!

Mike

from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 14 11:20:34 2000

eAEHKXG17762

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)

Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:13:36 -0600

Subject: Re: Non-US lathes--question

Just a note.   Size does matter.  In lathes, that is!  Onis is right, thereis a
sweet spot, so to speak where the lathe is the right length for theuser.  I
started out years ago with a small bench top lathe, with 10centers.  Not
even remotely big enough for what I use a lathe for now.  Iwent 
from that to a 42" lathe... boy, that was plenty... only problem was,that I
never found myself using more than half the bed on the lathe.  I soldthat one,
and moved to a 20" lathe.  Does everything I want to do with rods,

from ferrules to reel seats, to turning handles.  Plenty of room, but nottoo
heavy and no wasted space.

Bob

-----Original Message-----

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu 

Subject: Re: Non-US lathes--question

Mike, there in more than one side to this issue.  Along with bed lengthcomes
weight.   The longer bed is useful only if it's used.  The ability toturn larger
projects is useful only if one needs or want's to turn largepieces of material.

There is a "sweet spot" where the tool does everything the user want's itto
do and  only what he want's it to do.  Neither to big nor to small,neither under
or over versatile.  Each of us try to find things that fitthis  idea.  For me,
the lathe needed to be light enough to move easily butheavy enough to be
stable.  It needed to be cheap enough to fit mybudget.  It needed to be the
size to fit my projects.  It needed to becomplete enough that I would not
have to buy accessories for every task Iwanted to do.  For me, the sweet
spot is the 7x12.  But it was notavailable when I bought the 7x10 three years
ago.  After using the lathe

to my idea of what I needed and wanted.  I am perfectly happy with it.

Anyone who decides to buy a tool such as a lathe should first decide whathe
wants in a lathe and buy the one that fits.  To buy one to small willonly
disillusion.  One to big will do the same thing.  Find that "sweetspot" and get
the closest one to it.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:23 PM 11/13/00 -0500, mike shaffer wrote:Guys,I've noticed a lot of
interest in the oriental made lathes and mostconcern short (ie 10") lathe
beds. My question is whether it costs a lotmore to get a lathe with a longer
bed (ie 30")?  My reason for asking isthat I really hate to see someone invest
in a machine tool with a ratherrestricted use.  What I'm getting at is that,
would it not be better topay say an extra $100.00 to get the longer bed
lathe (which by the waywould sell quicker on the used tool market) than to
pay less and berelatively restricted in the things you can or might later want
to do?

The above is merely for thought, as I already own enough lathe for myuse 
and can't really envision buying another, I just would hate to knowthat one of
the rod buddies didn't buy enough lathe the first time around.Any thoughts
are welcomed!

Mike

from jczimny@dol.net Tue Nov 14 11:21:18 2000

eAEHLIG17878

Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company

Subject: Re: Paul Young Glue

It could only have been some form of resorcinol or urea formaldehyde.Except

else. There were, however, various resin formulations which probably
haddifferent characteristics.John Z

nobler wrote:

I never found out. He wrote me often about it, and that he only neededboiled
linseed oil for his personal rods, as his glue was so unaffected bywater !
There was a man who lost his in salt water, and when found aftersome
months, it only needed cleaning ! I'm speaking 1954-55 here.

GMA

from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Nov 14 12:28:37 2000

eAEISaG20659

Subject: Re: Paul Young Glue

John Palmer, a Toronto rod maker who is dead now, told me that he
usedresorcinal with liquid formaldihyde as a harder.  He told me that he
gotthe info about using this combination 
from Paul Young.  Using formaldehydeeliminated the need to use a powder
hardenener,  I tried it on a couple ofrods but couldn't put up with the lingering
reek of formaldehyde.

----------From: J. C. Zimny 

Cc: saltwein@worldnet.att.net; Rodmakers Subject: Re: Paul Young GlueDate:
Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:12 PM

It could only have been some form of resorcinol or urea formaldehyde.Except

thingelse. There were, however, various resin formulations which probably
haddifferent characteristics.John Z

nobler wrote:

I never found out. He wrote me often about it, and that he only neededboiled
linseed oil for his personal rods, as his glue was so unaffectedbywater !
There was a man who lost his in salt water, and when foundaftersome
months, it only needed cleaning ! I'm speaking 1954-55 here.

GMA

from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Nov 14 13:37:31 2000

eAEJbPG22834

LAA05081

(5.5.2650.21)

Subject: RE: Paul Young Glue

An old violin maker once told me that if you added some formaldehyde to
hideglue it made it really water resistant. He didn't say how much or
howresistant it would make it. My 84 year old boss at the violin shop told
methat they used to do the same thing in the 20's and 30's to hide glue when
hehad a furniture shop in LA

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

----------

Sent:         Tuesday, November 14, 2000 10:24 AM

Cc:   saltwein@worldnet.att.net; RodmakersSubject:      Re: Paul Young Glue

John Palmer, a Toronto rod maker who is dead now, told me that he
usedresorcinal with liquid formaldihyde as a harder.  He told me that he
gotthe info about using this combination 
from Paul Young.  Using formaldehydeeliminated the need to use a powder
hardenener,  I tried it on a couple ofrods but couldn't put up with the lingering
reek of formaldehyde.

----------From: J. C. Zimny 

Cc: saltwein@worldnet.att.net; Rodmakers

Subject: Re: Paul Young GlueDate: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:12 PM

It could only have been some form of resorcinol or urea formaldehyde.Except

thingelse. There were, however, various resin formulations which probably
haddifferent characteristics.John Z

nobler wrote:

I never found out. He wrote me often about it, and that he only neededboiled
linseed oil for his personal rods, as his glue was so unaffectedbywater !
There was a man who lost his in salt water, and when foundaftersome
months, it only needed cleaning ! I'm speaking 1954-55 here.

GMA

from jczimny@dol.net Tue Nov 14 14:44:02 2000

eAEKi1G25661

Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company

Subject: Re: Paul Young Glue

Yes. And also some urea. Also, to keep the glue 
from being eaten by microand macro organisms, one should add a pinch of
copper sulfate.John Z

"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote:

An old violin maker once told me that if you added some formaldehyde tohide
glue it made it really water resistant. He didn't say how much or
howresistant it would make it. My 84 year old boss at the violin shop told
methat they used to do the same thing in the 20's and 30's to hide glue when
hehad a furniture shop in LA

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

----------

Sent:         Tuesday, November 14, 2000 10:24 AM

Cc:   saltwein@worldnet.att.net; RodmakersSubject:      Re: Paul Young Glue

John Palmer, a Toronto rod maker who is dead now, told me that he
usedresorcinal with liquid formaldihyde as a harder.  He told me that he
gotthe info about using this combination 
from Paul Young.  Usingformaldehydeeliminated the need to use a powder
hardenener,  I tried it on a couple ofrods but couldn't put up with the lingering
reek of formaldehyde.

----------From: J. C. Zimny 

Cc: saltwein@worldnet.att.net; Rodmakers

Subject: Re: Paul Young GlueDate: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:12 PM

It could only have been some form of resorcinol or urea formaldehyde.Except

thingelse. There were, however, various resin formulations which
probablyhaddifferent characteristics.John Z

nobler wrote:

I never found out. He wrote me often about it, and that he onlyneededboiled
linseed oil for his personal rods, as his glue was so unaffectedbywater !
There was a man who lost his in salt water, and when foundaftersome
months, it only needed cleaning ! I'm speaking 1954-55 here.

GMA

from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 14 15:43:11 2000

eAELhAG28178

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

I have had no problems with my Taig for any of the tasks mentioned. The
onlymodification, over factory condition, was the addition of a variable
speedDC motor. I also made my own tooling that helped to facilitate the
varioustasks. The Taig accessories and tooling is very reasonably priced. Go
towww.taigtools.com for the factory home site,
andwww.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.html  for Nick Carter's dealer site.

Martin-Darrell

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

Don't know how the Taig Lathe fits for others out there but... I havefoundit
to be an excellent choice and great for small shops. Very sound
andveryquiet.  Check out:http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.htmlDoug
HallBroad River Bamboo

from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 14 16:11:52 2000

eAEMBpG29507

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

Yes, if one intends to do threads I'd opt for a larger lathe altogether.There
have been those who have modified their Taig to do threading by theaddition
of the appropriate gears and lead screw. If anyone is interested inthis drop
me a line, and I will point you in the right direction. The Taigalso lends itself
to each owner's unique modifications, many of which canalso be seen on
Nick's web site. I posted Nick's URL previously, even thoughDoug had already
done so, to reiterate. Nick is very knowledgeable on theJet, as well as several
other lathe types, and gives good service. He notonly sells lathes, he uses
them everyday. For the Taig users e-group go towww.egroups.com

M-D

----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: Lathes (Again)

I too have a taig lathe which has been very good for ferrule stations,grips,
lapping ferrules, etc. Keep in mind, though, that it doesn't dothreads. In
retrospect, were I to buy my first lathe again, I would choosesomething that
cuts threads. This would allow you to make locking reelseats, your own rod
tubes with caps, etc. Plus, metal work is really funwhen you get into it.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

BambooRods@aol.comSent: Monday, November 13, 2000 8:25 PM

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

Don't know how the Taig Lathe fits for others out therebut... I have foundit
to be an excellent choice and great for small shops. Verysound and
veryquiet.  Check out:http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.htmlDoug
HallBroad River Bamboo

from zimmer@adams.net Tue Nov 14 16:11:59 2000

eAEMBwG29523

0000

(qmailr@216.138.0.16)

0000

Subject: RE: LATHES

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C04E55.C12CCFA0

Pretty much no one has mentioned a US made lathe...the Sherline =lathe...I'm
a novice, but I sure like mine and it has a wealth of =accessories available if
one wants. It is certainly capable of way more =than I am. There is a longbed
(17") version available. They have a =website and there is a on-line usergroup
(not factory-connected). One =may also purchase a vertical milling column
that uses the standard =variable DC motor. It's a peach (with the fuzz on, in
this case). Just 2 =cents 
from a non-machinist. Randy Zimmerman

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C04E55.C12CCFA0

Pretty much no one has mentioned a US made =

Sherline lathe...I'm a novice, but I sure like mine and it has a wealth =

accessories available if one wants. It is certainly capable of way more =

am. There is a longbed (17") version available. They have a website and =

a on-line usergroup (not factory-connected). One may also purchase a =

milling column that uses the standard variable DC motor. It's a peach =

Zimmerman

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C04E55.C12CCFA0--

from CALucker@aol.com Tue Nov 14 16:59:28 2000

eAEMxRG01560

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

In a message dated 11/14/00 1:44:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,jojo@ipa.net
writes:

Years ago when Forest Daly, the owner of Taig Tools, was near Los Angeles, I
went to his machine shop and had him customize my Taig by drilling out the
spindle to handle rod butts yet still grip collets.  

Forest was very nice about giving me "factory second" (cosmetics) extra tail
stock and headstock and about two feet of the extrusion he uses for
thelathe ways.  I used this stuff to make the lathe I use for turning grips and
cork seats.  I don't like cleaning cork dust out of every corner and gap of my
other lathe.

from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 14 17:17:15 2000

eAENHFG02262

Subject: Re: Paul Young Glue

I was using epoxies in 1953, while working in the aircraft industry, sodon't
rule those out either !

GMA

from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 14 17:21:52 2000

eAENLpG02474

Subject: Re: Non-US lathes--question

I agree Bob. A used 10" Atlas, or South Bend, etc., is worth it's smallextra
cost, for the work it will do, much easier ! I ordered my Rockwell,with  24"
between centers, so I wouldn't be bugged by "buddies" wanting meto turn gun
barrels for them ! Still 90% of my work is done within 10" ofthe head stock !

GMA

from if6were9@bellsouth.net Tue Nov 14 17:25:24 2000

eAENPNG02655

Subject: Re: LATHES

--------------3F3E00DAF13044708D72BA73

As long as we are all throwing in the old .02,  I'll go ahead and muddythe
water a bit more.  Here is a site that features desktop machinetools that I
found a couple days ago.  If it's old news, sorry for thewaste of
space.desktopmachineshop.comAnother thing no one has mentioned (this
time) is the Jet small (9X20)metal lathe.  After shopping for a few months, I
got one very cheap thathad been bought, but had never been uncrated. 
Before I found this one,the best price I found on one was $900 provided I
drove to Nashville (2hrs) to pick it up 
from the warehouse.  If you have a Jet warehousenearby, find a dealer that
they service and you can save shipping bypicking it up yourself.  Not all
dealers will do this, but of the 5 Italked to, 3 would.

Randy Zimmerman wrote:

Pretty much no one has mentioned a US made lathe...the Sherlinelathe...I'm a
novice, but I sure like mine and it has a wealth ofaccessories available if one
wants. It is certainly capable of waymore than I am. There is a longbed (17")
version available. They havea website and there is a on-line usergroup (not
factory-connected).One may also purchase a vertical milling column that
uses the standardvariable DC motor. It's a peach (with the fuzz on, in this
case). Just2 cents 
from a non-machinist. Randy Zimmerman

--------------3F3E00DAF13044708D72BA73

Another thing no one has mentioned (this time) is the Jet small (9X20)

this one, the best price I found on one was $900 provided I drove to Nashville

nearby, find a dealer that they service and you can save shipping by picking

to, 3 would.Randy Zimmerman wrote:

Pretty much no onehas mentioned a US made lathe...the Sherline lathe...I'm a
novice, butI sure like mine and it has a wealth of accessories available if one
wants.It is certainly capable of way more than I am. There is a longbed
(17")version available. They have a website and there is a on-line
usergroup(not factory-connected). One may also purchase a vertical milling
columnthat uses the standard variable DC motor. It's a peach (with the fuzz
on,in this case). Just 2 cents 
from a non-machinist. RandyZimmerman

--------------3F3E00DAF13044708D72BA73--

from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 14 19:47:37 2000

eAF1laG07029

;Wed, 15 Nov 2000 01:47:33 +0000

Subject: Re: Paul Young Glue

Ted,

Do you have a recipe handy for the formaldehyde/resorcinal glue? Whatdid it
do for the traditional deep color of resorcinal?

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

Ted Knott wrote:

John Palmer, a Toronto rod maker who is dead now, told me that he
usedresorcinal with liquid formaldihyde as a harder.  He told me that he
gotthe info about using this combination 
from Paul Young.  Using formaldehydeeliminated the need to use a powder
hardenener,  I tried it on a couple ofrods but couldn't put up with the lingering
reek of formaldehyde.

from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Wed Nov 15 02:46:38 2000

eAF8kbG15901

fwd05.sul.t-online.com

+0100

Subject: Waara V Block

Hi list,

does anybody know, where one can buy the "Waara V Block". I've seen iton
Frank Neunemann's Homepage and it looks like a good method to measurethe
strips.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Nov 15 03:08:59 2000

eAF98vG16552

Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:08:57 +0100

Subject: Sv: Waara V Block

eAF98wG16553

Russ of Golden Witch stocks v-blocks. Cost: USD 55 plus postageNo financial
interests yadda - yadda

regards,carsten

----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: Waara V Block

Hi list,

does anybody know, where one can buy the "Waara V Block". I've seen iton
Frank Neunemann's Homepage and it looks like a good method tomeasurethe
strips.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Wed Nov 15
05:35:292000

eAFBZSG17764

helo=default)

Subject: UK gathering TYPO 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C04EEE.54997520

Reference the proposed UK rodmakers gathering 2001Sorry for the
bandwidth chaps,  I made a small typing error with Paul's =e-mail address. 
Correct version is:paul.blakley@ntlworld.com

Curse those stubby bamboo slivered fingers! Regards, Mark.

------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C04EEE.54997520

Reference the proposedUK =

gathering 2001Sorry for the bandwidth

is:paul.blakley@ntlworld.com

Curse those stubby bambooslivered =

Regards, Mark.

------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C04EEE.54997520--

from zimmer@adams.net Wed Nov 15 10:11:50 2000

eAFGBnG24789

(qmailr@216.138.0.16)

0000

Subject: Re: Sherline lathes

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04EEC.9D4A1420

http://www.cuttingedgetools.com/Onlinecat.htm/WebCatalog/Sherline.htm  
=Sherline                          =http://www.egroups.com/messages/sherline/1         
Egroup               ==Check the Sherline website for dealers, at the time I
purchased the best =price was at Campus Discount .com . Sometimes
Sherline sells on E-Bay so =

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04EEC.9D4A1420

http://www.cuttingedgetools.com/Onlinecat.htm/WebCatalog/Sherline.h=

price was at Campus Discount .com . Sometimes Sherline sells on E-Bay so =

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04EEC.9D4A1420--

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 15 11:05:08 2000

eAFH57G27106

09:04:58 PST

Subject: formaldehyde 

i have worked with formaldehyde and i am sure some ofyou have also. 
getting a lung full is a disturbingexperience.  i, myself, would not want a
bottle of thestuff near myself or my children. in case anyone isintrested i
have found the following. really, this isnot just a matter of degree. this is
dangerous stuff.just concerned for my brothers.  timothy     

Many of our laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin,formic aldehyde, methyl
aldehyde). It is a commontissue preservative. A carcinogen and
possiblemutagen, formaldehyde is highly toxic if swallowed,inhaled, absorbed
though the skin, or contacted by theeyes. Formaldehyde is also a sensitizing
agent. An airconcentration of 2 ppm is quickly irritating to theeyes; 20 ppm
can cause permanent clouding of thecornea after only one exposure.

Rubber gloves, goggles and lab coats should always beworn when working with
formaldehyde or formaldehydesolutions and, in general, all work with
formaldehydeshould be performed in a properly functioning anduncluttered
fume hood or with the use of a respirator.(NOTE: As always, contact EH&S to
arrange for requiredtesting and training before respirator use.).
Whenaqueous formaldehyde solutions are heated above theirflash points, a
potential for explosion hazard exists.Store away 
from heat and flame. As with all laboratorychemicals, do not mouth pipet
formaldehyde solutionsand be sure that such solutions are clearly labeledwith
the full chemical name and hazard(s).

Symptoms of exposure may include coughing, eye or skinirritation or
dermititis, allergic reactions,difficulty in breathing, vomiting and diarrhea.
Incase of exposure by inhalation, remove to fresh air,then call University
Health Services, or, if breathingis difficult, call the Harvard Police[HOT LINK]
forimmediate medical attention. For eye or skin exposure,immediately flush
with plenty of water for at least 15minutes while removing contaminated
clothing, then getmedical attention. In case of ingestion, call theHarvard
Police[HOT LINK] for immediate medicalattention.As with all accidents, report
any exposure as soon aspossible to your Lab Supervisor and Lab Director.

Dispose of formaldehyde as hazardous waste.

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the
holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/

from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Wed Nov 15 12:54:01 2000

eAFIs0G01107

Subject: troutdale gathering 2001

It has come to my attention that the rodmakers gathering held in
troutdaleoregon (just outside of portland), which in the past has occurred in
the oddyears opposite the corbett lake gathering (even years), may not
happen thisyear.

I for one (and I am biased, I live in portland) would like to see themeeting take
place, and am curious who else out there would attend if indeedit were to be
organized. The meeting has in the past been in may.

I would like to get a head count regarding how many folks think they wouldlike
to attend.Also I would like any input regarding topics or presentations people
wouldlike to see and discuss, and mention of any topics that someone has
aparticular interest in and would want to present.

If there is enough interest, maybe we can make the meeting happen.  If
noone wants to come. . .maybe us locals can just go cast rods and drink
beersomewhere.

Anyone with input please e-mail myself, kevin calloway and gary
lohkamp(they're both on this list).

Thanks in advance.

Chris O

from Canerods@aol.com Wed Nov 15 15:08:48 2000

eAFL8lG05632

Subject: Mills  was:Re: Lathes (Again)

All,

Just about when I truely decided to ask for the Harbor Freight 7"x10"
matelworking lathe for Christmas, along comes their new (to
me)metalworking mill. 

It's only a 5x7 mill, but the price is right - $429.00

See:http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39743

Pushing the wife and asking for their 9x20 lathe at $800 would be asking for
trouble, at the moment.

Comments?

Don Burnscanerods@aol.com

from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 15 17:03:03 2000

eAFN32G09745

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

I did forget to mention that I had reamed the spindle through-hole to
25/64,also. The Taig are now made in Arizona, and by all accounts on the
Taigtoolse-board (not factory connected) the new CNC mill is far superior to
anythingin its class. The Taig lathe lacks in certain aesthetics, especially
ascompared to the Sherline, but for what the Sherline lathe alone costs,
onemay get the Taig lathe, the motor (I wouldn't), and most of the
accessories.There are those on the e-board who have both lathes, and the
differences inpractical application are miniscule.

M-D

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

In a message dated 11/14/00 1:44:10 PM Pacific Standard
Time,jojo@ipa.netwrites:

onlymodification, over factory condition, was the addition of a
variablespeedDC motor. I also made my own tooling that helped to facilitate
thevarioustasks. The Taig accessories and tooling is very reasonably priced.
Go towww.taigtools.com for the factory home site,
andwww.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.html  for Nick Carter's dealer site. >>

Years ago when Forest Daly, the owner of Taig Tools, was near
LosAngeles,Iwent to his machine shop and had him customize my Taig by
drilling out thespindle to handle rod butts yet still grip collets.

Forest was very nice about giving me "factory second" (cosmetics)
extratailstock and headstock and about two feet of the extrusion he uses
for thelatheways.  I used this stuff to make the lathe I use for turning grips
andcorkseats.  I don't like cleaning cork dust out of every corner and gap of
myother lathe.

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 15 18:01:28 2000

eAG01RG11307

VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

Subject: RE: Lathes (Again)

Ordering a Taig directly 
from Forest Daly, the owner of Taig, is a prettypainless thing. I balked at the
cost of a motor, to which he said he hadsome rebuilt ones for a quarter of
the price. I asked for the spindlereamed, no problem he said. Really, the Taig
is a great machine and I canhardly wait for the thread cutting mechanism
presently in development beout on the market.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 6:00 PM

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

I did forget to mention that I had reamed the spindlethrough-hole to
25/64,also. The Taig are now made in Arizona, and by all accountson the
Taigtoolse-board (not factory connected) the new CNC mill is farsuperior to
anythingin its class. The Taig lathe lacks in certain aesthetics,especially
ascompared to the Sherline, but for what the Sherline lathealone costs,
onemay get the Taig lathe, the motor (I wouldn't), and most ofthe
accessories.There are those on the e-board who have both lathes, and
thedifferences inpractical application are miniscule.

M-D

from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Nov 15 19:23:16 2000

eAG1NFG12809

Subject: Re: troutdale gathering 2001

Organization: GOULD

Hi Chris,I could attend if the session was in April, but I've already booked
fishingtrips in May. I suspect Jack Byrd would also attend with me.Ray-----
Original Message -----

Subject: troutdale gathering 2001

It has come to my attention that the rodmakers gathering held in
troutdaleoregon (just outside of portland), which in the past has occurred in
theoddyears opposite the corbett lake gathering (even years), may not
happenthisyear.

I for one (and I am biased, I live in portland) would like to see themeeting take
place, and am curious who else out there would attend ifindeedit were to be
organized. The meeting has in the past been in may.

I would like to get a head count regarding how many folks think they wouldlike
to attend.Also I would like any input regarding topics or presentations people
wouldlike to see and discuss, and mention of any topics that someone has
aparticular interest in and would want to present.

If there is enough interest, maybe we can make the meeting happen.  If
noone wants to come. . .maybe us locals can just go cast rods and drink
beersomewhere.

Anyone with input please e-mail myself, kevin calloway and gary
lohkamp(they're both on this list).

Thanks in advance.

Chris O

from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 15 22:36:11 2000

eAG4aAG16340

Subject: Jack Frost rod

Fellows,I asked about this the other day and now have more info on it.

Length - 9 Ft3 piece with extra tipwraps about every 3/4"maple reel seat (I
think)full wells handle only about 5" longNickel silver ferrulesagate strip
guide,7wire guides,plus agate tip

"Jack Frost" stamped in reel seat

Anyone?Thanks,Art

from martinj@aa.net Wed Nov 15 22:47:08 2000

eAG4l7G16610

Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:46:57 -0800

Subject: RE: troutdale gathering 2001

I was unable to make it last year due to work but have made it in the pastand
would do it again!

-----Original Message-----

Obuchowski, MD

Subject: troutdale gathering 2001

It has come to my attention that the rodmakers gathering held in
troutdaleoregon (just outside of portland), which in the past has occurred in
the oddyears opposite the corbett lake gathering (even years), may not
happen thisyear.

I for one (and I am biased, I live in portland) would like to see themeeting take
place, and am curious who else out there would attend if indeedit were to be
organized. The meeting has in the past been in may.

I would like to get a head count regarding how many folks think they wouldlike
to attend.Also I would like any input regarding topics or presentations people
wouldlike to see and discuss, and mention of any topics that someone has
aparticular interest in and would want to present.

If there is enough interest, maybe we can make the meeting happen.  If
noone wants to come. . .maybe us locals can just go cast rods and drink
beersomewhere.

Anyone with input please e-mail myself, kevin calloway and gary
lohkamp(they're both on this list).

Thanks in advance.

Chris O

from vladmar@angara.ru Wed Nov 15 22:50:22 2000

eAG4oJG16779

ME-0197614)

+0800

Subject: Help Garry LaFontaine

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_010B_01C04FC8.9866C7A0

Hi Rodmakers

We all know Garry LaFontaine and now he is very illplease look at yhis
URLhttp://tyingft.homestead.com/home.html

Vladimir Markov,
Russiavladmar@angara.ruhttp://vladmar.homestead.com/hopper.html

------=_NextPart_000_010B_01C04FC8.9866C7A0

Hi Rodmakers

We all know Garry LaFontaine and nowhe =

illplease look at yhis URL

http://tyingft.homestead.=com/home.html

Vladimir Markov,
Russiavladmar@angara.ruhttp://vladmar.homestea=d.com/hopper.html

------=_NextPart_000_010B_01C04FC8.9866C7A0--

from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu Nov 16 02:55:34 2000

eAG8tXG21146

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win95; en-US; m18)
Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0

Subject: recipients list

recipients list

from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Nov 16 05:32:55 2000

eAGBWrG23353

Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories

Subject: Re: formaldehyde

--------------E6AAD19357A93F05F7673B64

On formaldehyde, I agree completely with Timothy.  If you areconsidering
venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consultyour Lab Safety
catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator(that's where I buy
mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of thestuff and you'll understand,
as well as pickle your innards.dws.

timothy troester wrote:

i have worked with formaldehyde and i am sure some ofyou have also. 
getting a lung full is a disturbingexperience.  i, myself, would not want a
bottle of thestuff near myself or my children. in case anyone isintrested i
have found the following. really, this isnot just a matter of degree. this is
dangerous stuff.just concerned for my brothers.  timothy

Many of our laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin,formic aldehyde, methyl
aldehyde). It is a commontissue preservative. A carcinogen and
possiblemutagen, formaldehyde is highly toxic if swallowed,inhaled, absorbed
though the skin, or contacted by theeyes. Formaldehyde is also a sensitizing
agent. An airconcentration of 2 ppm is quickly irritating to theeyes; 20 ppm
can cause permanent clouding of thecornea after only one exposure.

Rubber gloves, goggles and lab coats should always beworn when working with
formaldehyde or formaldehydesolutions and, in general, all work with
formaldehydeshould be performed in a properly functioning anduncluttered
fume hood or with the use of a respirator.(NOTE: As always, contact EH&S to
arrange for requiredtesting and training before respirator use.).
Whenaqueous formaldehyde solutions are heated above theirflash points, a
potential for explosion hazard exists.Store away 
from heat and flame. As with all laboratorychemicals, do not mouth pipet
formaldehyde solutionsand be sure that such solutions are clearly labeledwith
the full chemical name and hazard(s).

Symptoms of exposure may include coughing, eye or skinirritation or
dermititis, allergic reactions,difficulty in breathing, vomiting and diarrhea.
Incase of exposure by inhalation, remove to fresh air,then call University
Health Services, or, if breathingis difficult, call the Harvard Police[HOT LINK]
forimmediate medical attention. For eye or skin exposure,immediately flush
with plenty of water for at least 15minutes while removing contaminated
clothing, then getmedical attention. In case of ingestion, call theHarvard
Police[HOT LINK] for immediate medicalattention.As with all accidents, report
any exposure as soon aspossible to your Lab Supervisor and Lab Director.

Dispose of formaldehyde as hazardous waste.

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the
holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/

--------------E6AAD19357A93F05F7673B64

consideringventuring into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consult your
LabSafety catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator (that'swhere
I buy mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of the stuff and
you'llunderstand, as well as pickle your innards.dws.timothy troester wrote:i
have worked with formaldehyde and i am sure someof

stuff near myself or my children. in case anyone isintrested i have found the
following. really, this isnot just a matter of degree. this is dangerous stuff.

Many of our laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin,formic aldehyde, methyl
aldehyde). It is a commontissue preservative. A carcinogen and
possiblemutagen, formaldehyde is highly toxic if swallowed,inhaled, absorbed
though the skin, or contacted by theeyes. Formaldehyde is also a sensitizing
agent. An airconcentration of 2 ppm is quickly irritating to theeyes; 20 ppm
can cause permanent clouding of thecornea after only one exposure.Rubber
gloves, goggles and lab coats should always beworn when working with
formaldehyde or formaldehydesolutions and, in general, all work with
formaldehydeshould be performed in a properly functioning anduncluttered
fume hood or with the use of a respirator.(NOTE: As always, contact
EH&S to arrange for requiredtesting and training before respirator
use.). Whenaqueous formaldehyde solutions are heated above theirflash
points, a potential for explosion hazard exists.Store away 
from heat and flame. As with all laboratorychemicals, do not mouth pipet
formaldehyde solutionsand be sure that such solutions are clearly labeledwith
the full chemical name and hazard(s).Symptoms of exposure may include
coughing, eye or skinirritation or dermititis, allergic reactions,difficulty in
breathing, vomiting and diarrhea. Incase of exposure by inhalation, remove to
fresh air,then call University Health Services, or, if breathingis difficult, call
the Harvard Police[HOT LINK] forimmediate medical attention. For eye or skin
exposure,immediately flush with plenty of water for at least 15minutes while
removing contaminated clothing, then getmedical attention. In case of
ingestion, call theHarvard Police[HOT LINK] for immediate
medicalattention.As with all accidents, report any exposure as soon
aspossible to your Lab Supervisor and Lab Director.Dispose of formaldehyde
as hazardous waste.====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the
holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/

--------------E6AAD19357A93F05F7673B64--

from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 16 06:41:31 2000

eAGCfVG23995

;Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:41:26 +0000

Subject: Re: formaldehyde

Ok, I am sufficiently scared off of wanting anything to do withformaldehyde.
What about Urac? Does it have formaldehyde in it in someform? Are there
caveats with its use also?

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

"David W. Smith" wrote:

On formaldehyde, I agree completely with Timothy.  If you areconsidering
venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consultyour Lab Safety
catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator(that's where I buy
mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of thestuff and you'll understand,
as well as pickle your innards.dws.

from rkrees@mcn.net Thu Nov 16 07:24:23 2000

eAGDOMG24597

Subject: Guide Chart

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C04F95.F7020500

A couple of weeks ago someone posted a attachment for a guide spacing
=chart. This caused a real fuss the first time so please do not post it =again
but I have lost my copy. Could someone please post the URL or =

Ron

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C04F95.F7020500

A couple of weeks ago someone posted a attachment for a guide spacing=

This caused a real fuss the first time so please do not post it again =

lost my copy. Could someone please post the URL or e-mail me direct? =

Ron

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C04F95.F7020500--

from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 16 07:33:02 2000

eAGDX1G24802

+0000

Subject: Heating varnish

Hello All,

Have the hole in the concrete. Presently auguring the dirt out. I amtrying to
decide what I will heat the varnish with. 

I will have a 2-1/4" thin walled tube 3-1/2' below my basement floor anda thin
walled tube of 1-3/4" (outside diameter) inside of it. I havelooked at the pipe
wrap heaters but don't like the idea that you can'tcontrol the heat.

I was thinking about purchasing a 50 watt aquarium heater and droppingit in
the bottom of my housing tube, thereby having the ability tocontrol the
temperature. Thoughts?

Also looking for the right motor for draw rate and reversability.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

from bob@downandacross.com Thu Nov 16 10:25:45 2000

eAGGPiG00250

"Rodmakers" 

Subject: Re: Guide Chart

http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm

http://www.canerod.com/Articles/Index.htmlRodmaking guide.

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

from CALucker@aol.com Thu Nov 16 12:54:48 2000

eAGIslG06087

Subject: Re: Heating varnish

In a message dated 11/16/00 5:33:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
saltwein@worldnet.att.net writes:

My motor is a 1/4 horse 1725 rpm beast that has reversible poles, althoughI
never use the motor to reverse, I do it by hand.  I get the speed down by
running the motor through a 600:1 gear reducer and two stacked pulleysthat
offer a choice of ratios.  I withdraw at about 1.2 inches per minute with
Interlux Schooner straight out of the can.This setup can lift anything.  In
fact I used it to pull the motor out of my '69 280SL last winter.  The gear
reducer I salvaged 
from Ships restaurant in Westwood (Los ANgeles) when they leveled the
restaurant in 1985.  The gear reducer was used to enticingly rotate the pie
by the cash register.Chris Lucker

from robrown@wt.net Thu Nov 16 19:03:05 2000

eAH133G17489;

and Collecting Subject: Re: RODMAKERS digest 177

--------------DA014D407D175ABFEAC50D07

creator="4D4F5353"

Help, I need to change my e-mail address at which I receive thise-mail.  Please
start me in the right direction.

ThanksRob

Bamboo.Flyrod.Making@wugate.wustl.edu, Restoring@wugate.wustl.edu,
andCollecting wrote:

RODMAKERS Digest 177

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) Mills  was:Re: Lathes (Again)

2) Re: Lathes (Again)

3) RE: Lathes (Again)

4) Re: troutdale gathering 2001

5) Jack Frost rod

6) RE: troutdale gathering 2001

7) Help Garry LaFontaine

8) recipients list

9) Re: formaldehyde

10) Re: formaldehyde

11) Guide Chart

12) Heating varnish

13) Re: Guide Chart

14) Re: Heating varnish

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Mills was:Re: Lathes (Again)Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:08:23
ESTFrom: Canerods@aol.com

All,

Just about when I truely decided to ask for the Harbor Freight
7"x10"matelworking lathe for Christmas, along comes their new (to
me)metalworkingmill.

It's only a 5x7 mill, but the price is right - $429.00

See:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39743

Pushing the wife and asking for their 9x20 lathe at $800 would beasking
fortrouble, at the moment.

Comments?

Don Burnscanerods@aol.com

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:00:19 -0600From:
"Jojo DeLancier" 

I did forget to mention that I had reamed the spindle through-hole
to25/64,also. The Taig are now made in Arizona, and by all accounts on
theTaigtoolse-board (not factory connected) the new CNC mill is far superior
toanythingin its class. The Taig lathe lacks in certain aesthetics,
especiallyascompared to the Sherline, but for what the Sherline lathe alone
costs,onemay get the Taig lathe, the motor (I wouldn't), and most of
theaccessories.There are those on the e-board who have both lathes, and
thedifferences inpractical application are miniscule.

M-D

----- Original Message -----From: 

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 4:59 PMSubject: Re: Lathes (Again)

In a message dated 11/14/00 1:44:10 PM Pacific Standard
Time,jojo@ipa.netwrites:

mentioned. Theonlymodification, over factory condition, was the addition of
avariablespeedDC motor. I also made my own tooling that helped to facilitate
thevarioustasks. The Taig accessories and tooling is very reasonably
priced.Go towww.taigtools.com for the factory home site,
andwww.pioneer.net/~felice/taig.html  for Nick Carter's dealer site.

Years ago when Forest Daly, the owner of Taig Tools, was near
LosAngeles,Iwent to his machine shop and had him customize my Taig by
drillingout thespindle to handle rod butts yet still grip collets.

Forest was very nice about giving me "factory second"
(cosmetics)extratailstock and headstock and about two feet of the
extrusion he uses forthelatheways.  I used this stuff to make the lathe I use
for turning gripsandcorkseats.  I don't like cleaning cork dust out of every
corner and gapof myother lathe.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Lathes (Again)Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:00:27 -0500From:
"Richard Nantel" 

Ordering a Taig directly 
from Forest Daly, the owner of Taig, is aprettypainless thing. I balked at the
cost of a motor, to which he said hehadsome rebuilt ones for a quarter of
the price. I asked for the spindlereamed, no problem he said. Really, the Taig
is a great machine and Icanhardly wait for the thread cutting mechanism
presently in developmentbeout on the market.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 6:00 PM

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

I did forget to mention that I had reamed the spindlethrough-hole to
25/64,also. The Taig are now made in Arizona, and by all accountson the
Taigtoolse-board (not factory connected) the new CNC mill is farsuperior to
anythingin its class. The Taig lathe lacks in certain aesthetics,especially
ascompared to the Sherline, but for what the Sherline lathealone costs,
onemay get the Taig lathe, the motor (I wouldn't), and most ofthe
accessories.There are those on the e-board who have both lathes, and
thedifferences inpractical application are miniscule.

M-D

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: troutdale gathering 2001Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:22:30 -
0800From: "Ray Gould" 

Hi Chris,I could attend if the session was in April, but I've already
bookedfishingtrips in May. I suspect Jack Byrd would also attend with
me.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD 

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:47 AMSubject: troutdale gathering
2001

It has come to my attention that the rodmakers gathering held
introutdaleoregon (just outside of portland), which in the past has occurred
intheoddyears opposite the corbett lake gathering (even years), may
nothappenthisyear.

I for one (and I am biased, I live in portland) would like to seethemeeting take
place, and am curious who else out there would attendifindeedit were to be
organized. The meeting has in the past been in may.

I would like to get a head count regarding how many folks think theywouldlike
to attend.Also I would like any input regarding topics or presentations
peoplewouldlike to see and discuss, and mention of any topics that someone
hasaparticular interest in and would want to present.

If there is enough interest, maybe we can make the meeting happen.If noone
wants to come. . .maybe us locals can just go cast rods anddrink
beersomewhere.

Anyone with input please e-mail myself, kevin calloway and
garylohkamp(they're both on this list).

Thanks in advance.

Chris O

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Jack Frost rodDate: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:37:31 -0500From: Art
Port 

Fellows,I asked about this the other day and now have more info on it.

Length - 9 Ft3 piece with extra tipwraps about every 3/4"maple reel seat (I
think)full wells handle only about 5" longNickel silver ferrulesagate strip
guide,7wire guides,plus agate tip

"Jack Frost" stamped in reel seat

Anyone?Thanks,Art

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: troutdale gathering 2001Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:46:04 -
0800From: "Martin Jensen" 

I was unable to make it last year due to work but have made it in thepastand
would do it again!

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Obuchowski, MDSent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:48 AM

Subject: troutdale gathering 2001

It has come to my attention that the rodmakers gathering held
introutdaleoregon (just outside of portland), which in the past has occurred
inthe oddyears opposite the corbett lake gathering (even years), may not
happenthisyear.

I for one (and I am biased, I live in portland) would like to see themeeting take
place, and am curious who else out there would attend ifindeedit were to be
organized. The meeting has in the past been in may.

I would like to get a head count regarding how many folks think theywouldlike
to attend.Also I would like any input regarding topics or presentations
peoplewouldlike to see and discuss, and mention of any topics that someone
has aparticular interest in and would want to present.

If there is enough interest, maybe we can make the meeting happen.  Ifnoone
wants to come. . .maybe us locals can just go cast rods and
drinkbeersomewhere.

Anyone with input please e-mail myself, kevin calloway and
garylohkamp(they're both on this list).

Thanks in advance.

Chris O

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Help Garry LaFontaineDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:27:33 +0300From:
"markov" 

Hi Rodmakers We all know Garry LaFontaine and now he is very illpleaselook
at yhis URLhttp://tyingft.homestead.com/home.html VladimirMarkov,
Russiavladmar@angara.ruhttp://vladmar.homestead.com/hopper.html--------
--------------------------------------------------------

Subject: recipients listDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:58:48 +0100From: stuart
moultrie 

recipients list----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: formaldehydeDate: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:04:55 -0500From:
"David W. Smith" 

CC: "rod 'akers" 

On formaldehyde, I agree completely with Timothy.  If you areconsidering
venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consultyour Lab Safety
catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator(that's where I buy
mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of thestuff and you'll understand,
as well as pickle your innards.dws.

timothy troester wrote:

i have worked with formaldehyde and i am sure some ofyou have also. 
getting a lung full is a disturbingexperience.  i, myself, would not want a
bottle of thestuff near myself or my children. in case anyone isintrested i
have found the following. really, this isnot just a matter of degree. this is
dangerous stuff.just concerned for my brothers.  timothy

Many of our laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin,formic aldehyde, methyl
aldehyde). It is a commontissue preservative. A carcinogen and
possiblemutagen, formaldehyde is highly toxic if swallowed,inhaled, absorbed
though the skin, or contacted by theeyes. Formaldehyde is also a sensitizing
agent. An airconcentration of 2 ppm is quickly irritating to theeyes; 20 ppm
can cause permanent clouding of thecornea after only one exposure.

Rubber gloves, goggles and lab coats should always beworn when working with
formaldehyde or formaldehydesolutions and, in general, all work with
formaldehydeshould be performed in a properly functioning anduncluttered
fume hood or with the use of a respirator.(NOTE: As always, contact EH&S to
arrange for requiredtesting and training before respirator use.).
Whenaqueous formaldehyde solutions are heated above theirflash points, a
potential for explosion hazard exists.Store away 
from heat and flame. As with all laboratorychemicals, do not mouth pipet
formaldehyde solutionsand be sure that such solutions are clearly labeledwith
the full chemical name and hazard(s).

Symptoms of exposure may include coughing, eye or skinirritation or
dermititis, allergic reactions,difficulty in breathing, vomiting and diarrhea.
Incase of exposure by inhalation, remove to fresh air,then call University
Health Services, or, if breathingis difficult, call the Harvard Police[HOT LINK]
forimmediate medical attention. For eye or skin exposure,immediately flush
with plenty of water for at least 15minutes while removing contaminated
clothing, then getmedical attention. In case of ingestion, call theHarvard
Police[HOT LINK] for immediate medicalattention.As with all accidents, report
any exposure as soon aspossible to your Lab Supervisor and Lab Director.

Dispose of formaldehyde as hazardous waste.

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the
holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: formaldehydeDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 06:42:40 -0800From:
Steve Trauthwein 

CC: tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com, "rod 'akers" 

Ok, I am sufficiently scared off of wanting anything to do withformaldehyde.
What about Urac? Does it have formaldehyde in it in someform? Are there
caveats with its use also?

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

"David W. Smith" wrote:

On formaldehyde, I agree completely with Timothy.  If you areconsidering
venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRSTconsultyour Lab Safety
catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for yourrespirator(that's where I buy mine,
yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of thestuff and you'll understand, as well
as pickle your innards.dws.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Guide ChartDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 06:25:07 -0700From: "Ronnie L.
Rees" 

someone posted a attachment for a guide spacing chart. This caused areal
fuss the first time so please do not post it again but I havelost my copy.
Could someone please post the URL or e-mail me direct?

Ron----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Heating varnishDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:34:15 -0800From: Steve
Trauthwein 

Hello All,

Have the hole in the concrete. Presently auguring the dirt out. I amtrying to
decide what I will heat the varnish with.

I will have a 2-1/4" thin walled tube 3-1/2' below my basement flooranda thin
walled tube of 1-3/4" (outside diameter) inside of it. I havelooked at the pipe
wrap heaters but don't like the idea that you can'tcontrol the heat.

I was thinking about purchasing a 50 watt aquarium heater and droppingit in
the bottom of my housing tube, thereby having the ability tocontrol the
temperature. Thoughts?

Also looking for the right motor for draw rate and reversability.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Guide ChartDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:25:43 est5edtFrom: "bob
maulucci" 

"Rodmakers" 

http://www.canerod.com/Articles/Index.htmlRodmaking guide.

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Heating varnishDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:54:36 ESTFrom:
CALucker@aol.com

In a message dated 11/16/00 5:33:43 AM Pacific Standard
Time,>saltwein@worldnet.att.net writes:

My motor is a 1/4 horse 1725 rpm beast that has reversible poles,although
Inever use the motor to reverse, I do it by hand.  I get the speed
downbyrunning the motor through a 600:1 gear reducer and two stacked
pulleysthatoffer a choice of ratios.  I withdraw at about 1.2 inches per
minutewithInterlux Schooner straight out of the can.This setup can lift
anything.  In fact I used it to pull the motor outof my'69 280SL last winter. 
The gear reducer I salvaged 
from Shipsrestaurant inWestwood (Los ANgeles) when they leveled the
restaurant in 1985.  Thegearreducer was used to enticingly rotate the pie by
the cash register.Chris Lucker

--------------DA014D407D175ABFEAC50D07

Please start me in the right
direction.ThanksRobBamboo.Flyrod.Making@wugate.wustl.edu,
Restoring@wugate.wustl.edu,andCollecting wrote:

177

Topics covered in this issue include:

<jojo@ipa.net>

<richard.nantel@videotron.ca>

<rsgould@cmc.net>

<anglport@con2.com>

<martinj@aa.net>

<vladmar@angara.ru>

<stuart.rod@gmx.de>

<earsdws@duke.edu>

<saltwein@worldnet.att.net>

<rkrees@mcn.net>

<saltwein@worldnet.att.net>

<bob@downandacross.com>

Subject: Mills was:Re: Lathes (Again)Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:08:23
ESTFrom: Canerods@aol.com

All,

matelworking lathe for Christmas, along comes their new (to me)

It's only a 5x7 mill, but the price is right - $429.00

See:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39743

Pushing the wife and asking for their 9x20 lathe at $800 would be

trouble, at the moment.

Comments?

Don Burnscanerods@aol.com

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:00:19 -0600From:
"Jojo DeLancier" <jojo@ipa.net>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>I did forget to mention that I had reamed
the spindle through-hole to 25/64,also. The Taig are now made in Arizona,
and by all accounts on the Taigtoolse-board (not factory connected) the new
CNC mill is far superior to anythingin its class. The Taig lathe lacks in certain
aesthetics, especially ascompared to the Sherline, but for what the Sherline
lathe alone costs, onemay get the Taig lathe, the motor (I wouldn't), and
most of the accessories.There are those on the e-board who have both
lathes, and the differences inpractical application are miniscule.

M-D

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

In a message dated 11/14/00 1:44:10 PM Pacific Standard
Time,jojo@ipa.netwrites:

<< I have had no problems with my Taig for any of the tasksmentioned.
Theonly

speed

various

Go to

site. >>

Years ago when Forest Daly, the owner of Taig Tools, was near
LosAngeles,Iwent to his machine shop and had him customize my Taig by
drilling out thespindle to handle rod butts yet still grip collets.

Forest was very nice about giving me "factory second" (cosmetics)
extratailstock and headstock and about two feet of the extrusion he uses
for thelathe

cork

myother lathe.

Subject: RE: Lathes (Again)Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:00:27 -0500From:
"Richard Nantel"<richard.nantel@videotron.ca>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Ordering a Taig directly 
from Forest Daly, the owner of Taig, is aprettypainless thing. I balked at the
cost of a motor, to which he said he hadsome rebuilt ones for a quarter of
the price. I asked for the spindlereamed, no problem he said. Really, the Taig
is a great machine and I canhardly wait for the thread cutting mechanism
presently in development beout on the market.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Jojo DeLancierSent: Wednesday,
November 15, 2000 6:00 PM

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

I did forget to mention that I had reamed the spindlethrough-hole to
25/64,also. The Taig are now made in Arizona, and by all accountson the
Taigtoolse-board (not factory connected) the new CNC mill is farsuperior to
anythingin its class. The Taig lathe lacks in certain aesthetics,especially
ascompared to the Sherline, but for what the Sherline lathealone costs,
onemay get the Taig lathe, the motor (I wouldn't), and most ofthe
accessories.There are those on the e-board who have both lathes, and
thedifferences inpractical application are miniscule.

M-D

Subject: Re: troutdale gathering 2001Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:22:30 -
0800From: "Ray Gould" <rsgould@cmc.net>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Hi Chris,I could attend if the session was in
April, but I've already booked fishingtrips in May. I suspect Jack Byrd would
also attend with me.Ray----- Original Message -----

Subject: troutdale gathering 2001

It has come to my attention that the rodmakers gathering held in
troutdaleoregon (just outside of portland), which in the past has occurred in
theoddyears opposite the corbett lake gathering (even years), may not
happenthisyear.

I for one (and I am biased, I live in portland) would like to see themeeting take
place, and am curious who else out there would attend ifindeedit were to be
organized. The meeting has in the past been in may.

I would like to get a head count regarding how many folks think they wouldlike
to attend.Also I would like any input regarding topics or presentations people
wouldlike to see and discuss, and mention of any topics that someone has
aparticular interest in and would want to present.

If noone wants to come. . .maybe us locals can just go cast rods and drink
beersomewhere.

Anyone with input please e-mail myself, kevin calloway and gary
lohkamp(they're both on this list).

Thanks in advance.

Chris O

Subject: Jack Frost rodDate: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:37:31 -0500From: Art
Port <anglport@con2.com>

Fellows,

day and now have more info on it.

"Jack Frost" stamped in reel seat

Anyone?Thanks,Art

Subject: RE: troutdale gathering 2001Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:46:04 -
0800From: "Martin Jensen" <martinj@aa.net>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>I was unable to make it last year due to
work but have made it inthe pastand would do it again!

-----Original Message-----

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Christopher A.Obuchowski, MD

Subject: troutdale gathering 2001

It has come to my attention that the rodmakers gathering held in
troutdaleoregon (just outside of portland), which in the past has occurred in
the oddyears opposite the corbett lake gathering (even years), may not
happen thisyear.

I for one (and I am biased, I live in portland) would like to see themeeting take
place, and am curious who else out there would attend if indeedit were to be
organized. The meeting has in the past been in may.

I would like to get a head count regarding how many folks think they wouldlike
to attend.Also I would like any input regarding topics or presentations people
wouldlike to see and discuss, and mention of any topics that someone has
aparticular interest in and would want to present.

noone wants to come. . .maybe us locals can just go cast rods and drink
beersomewhere.

Anyone with input please e-mail myself, kevin calloway and gary
lohkamp(they're both on this list).

Thanks in advance.

Chris O

Subject: Help Garry LaFontaineDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:27:33 +0300From:
"markov" <vladmar@angara.ru>

all know Garry LaFontaine and now he is very illplease

Markov, Russiavladmar@angara.ru

Subject: recipients listDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:58:48 +0100From: stuart
moultrie <stuart.rod@gmx.de>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>recipients list

Subject: Re: formaldehydeDate: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:04:55 -0500From:
"David W. Smith" <earsdws@duke.edu>

CC: "rod 'akers"<RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu>

consideringventuring into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consult your
LabSafety catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator (that'swhere
I buy mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of the stuff and
you'llunderstand, as well as pickle your innards.dws.timothy troester wrote:i
have worked with formaldehyde and i am sure someof

stuff near myself or my children. in case anyone isintrested i have found the
following. really, this isnot just a matter of degree. this is dangerous stuff.

Many of our laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin,formic aldehyde, methyl
aldehyde). It is a commontissue preservative. A carcinogen and
possiblemutagen, formaldehyde is highly toxic if swallowed,inhaled, absorbed
though the skin, or contacted by theeyes. Formaldehyde is also a sensitizing
agent. An airconcentration of 2 ppm is quickly irritating to theeyes; 20 ppm
can cause permanent clouding of thecornea after only one exposure.Rubber
gloves, goggles and lab coats should always beworn when working with
formaldehyde or formaldehydesolutions and, in general, all work with
formaldehydeshould be performed in a properly functioning anduncluttered
fume hood or with the use of a respirator.(NOTE: As always, contact
EH&S to arrange for requiredtesting and training before respirator
use.). Whenaqueous formaldehyde solutions are heated above theirflash
points, a potential for explosion hazard exists.Store away 
from heat and flame. As with all laboratorychemicals, do not mouth pipet
formaldehyde solutionsand be sure that such solutions are clearly labeledwith
the full chemical name and hazard(s).Symptoms of exposure may include
coughing, eye or skinirritation or dermititis, allergic reactions,difficulty in
breathing, vomiting and diarrhea. Incase of exposure by inhalation, remove to
fresh air,then call University Health Services, or, if breathingis difficult, call
the Harvard Police[HOT LINK] forimmediate medical attention. For eye or skin
exposure,immediately flush with plenty of water for at least 15minutes while
removing contaminated clothing, then getmedical attention. In case of
ingestion, call theHarvard Police[HOT LINK] for immediate
medicalattention.As with all accidents, report any exposure as soon
aspossible to your Lab Supervisor and Lab Director.Dispose of formaldehyde
as hazardous waste.====="Gooda' morning mister
bear"__________________________________________________Do
You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the
holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/

Subject: Re: formaldehydeDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 06:42:40 -0800From:
Steve Trauthwein<saltwein@worldnet.att.net>

CC: tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com, "rod 'akers"<RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu>Ok,
I am sufficiently scared off of wanting anything to do withformaldehyde.
What about Urac? Does it have formaldehyde in it in someform? Are there
caveats with its use also?

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

"David W. Smith" wrote:

considering venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consultyour Lab
Safety catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator(that's where I
buy mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of thestuff and you'll
understand, as well as pickle your innards.dws.

Subject: Guide ChartDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 06:25:07 -0700From: "Ronnie L.
Rees" <rkrees@mcn.net>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Acouple of weeks ago someone posted a
attachment for a guide spacing chart.This caused a real fuss the first time
so please do not post it again butI have lost my copy. Could someone please
post the URL or e-mail medirect?Ron

Subject: Heating varnishDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:34:15 -0800From: Steve
Trauthwein<saltwein@worldnet.att.net>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Hello All,

Have the hole in the concrete. Presently auguring the dirt out. I am

I will have a 2-1/4" thin walled tube 3-1/2' below my basement floor anda thin
walled tube of 1-3/4" (outside diameter) inside of it. I havelooked at the pipe
wrap heaters but don't like the idea that you can'tcontrol the heat.

I was thinking about purchasing a 50 watt aquarium heater and droppingit in
the bottom of my housing tube, thereby having the ability tocontrol the
temperature. Thoughts?

Also looking for the right motor for draw rate and reversability.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

Subject: Re: Guide ChartDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:25:43 est5edtFrom: "bob
maulucci"<bob@downandacross.com>

<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>http://www.canerod.com/Articles/Index.htmlRodmaking guide.

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

Subject: Re: Heating varnishDate: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:54:36 ESTFrom:
CALucker@aol.com

In a message dated 11/16/00 5:33:43 AM Pacific Standard

saltwein@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< Also looking for the right motor for draw rate and reversability. >>

My motor is a 1/4 horse 1725 rpm beast that has reversible poles, although

running the motor through a 600:1 gear reducer and two stacked pulleys

Interlux Schooner straight out of the can.

reducer was used to enticingly rotate the pie by the cash register.Chris
Lucker

--------------DA014D407D175ABFEAC50D07--

from channer1@rmi.net Thu Nov 16 19:12:04 2000

eAH1C3G17706

Subject: Re: Heating varnish

Steve;I have a similar set up, but my tube goes into my crawl space. I
justtake the tube with the varnish out of the floor when I am not using itand
park it strategically on top of the heat vent in that room. Youcould maybe
take yours into a warm spot in your house somewhere.Just a thoughtJohn

Steve Trauthwein wrote:

Hello All,

Have the hole in the concrete. Presently auguring the dirt out. I amtrying to
decide what I will heat the varnish with.

I will have a 2-1/4" thin walled tube 3-1/2' below my basement floor anda thin
walled tube of 1-3/4" (outside diameter) inside of it. I havelooked at the pipe
wrap heaters but don't like the idea that you can'tcontrol the heat.

I was thinking about purchasing a 50 watt aquarium heater and droppingit in
the bottom of my housing tube, thereby having the ability tocontrol the
temperature. Thoughts?

Also looking for the right motor for draw rate and reversability.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

from Troutgetter@aol.com Thu Nov 16 20:58:02 2000

eAH2w2G19814

Subject: Re: Heating varnish

Steve,I believe someone on the list mentioned the possibility of using the
heater wire 
from an electric blanket, wrapping it around the tube and using the gadget
that keeps you 
from roasting to regulate the heat. I thought it was a great idea, but have
yet to run into an old blanket at a thrift store. Maybe it never gets cold
enough in LA to trade in your old blanket for a new one!Mike

from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Nov 16 23:46:31 2000

eAH5kSG22479

eAH5kFx44124;

Subject: Re: formaldehyde

Organization: vet

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C050B5.4EF8BA40

You know, when I was a first year student at University, doing Zoology =1, we
used walk into a dissection lab with about 100 "dogfish" -read ="little sharks"
- laid out in trays of formalin, which is 40% =formaldehyde solution, in a small
unventilated dissection laboratory. We =were required to lift our dogfish out
of the formalin and onto a bench, =where we proceeded to spend 3 hours
with our noses about 10" 
from it =while we dissected it. Even now I recall that a real olfactory
=experience was the instant when one opened the otic capsule!

This went on every Wednesday for about 6 weeks or so, until the =dissection
manual for that species was worked through. Nobody =recommended that we
wear gloves, nobody even thought about respiratory =protection. If you had
asked, they would all have thought that you were =strange, or worse, a
pooftah or something!

This was in 1960. We were even allowed to smoke in the lab, over the
=dogfish.

Makes you think about the term "mad scientist", doesn't it? And it =becomes
a little clearer why the '60s produced such a peculiar crop as =us.

Thank heavens there is better advice about now for people who use these
=chemicals, and for those who take the time to warn us.

Peter

Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 7:04 AMSubject: Re: formaldehyde

On formaldehyde, I agree completely with Timothy.  If you are =considering
venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consult =your Lab Safety
catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator =(that's where I buy
mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of the =

http://calendar.yahoo.com/

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C050B5.4EF8BA40

You know, when I was a first year=

University, doing Zoology 1, we used walk into a dissection lab with =

"dogfish" -read "little sharks" - laid out in trays of formalin, which =

formaldehyde solution, in a small unventilated dissection laboratory. We =

required to lift our dogfish out of the formalin and onto a bench, where =

proceeded to spend 3 hours with our noses about 10" 
from it while we =

it. Even now I recall that a real olfactory experience was the instant =

opened the otic capsule!

This went on every Wednesday for=

or so, until the dissection manual for that species was worked through. =

recommended that we wear gloves, nobody even thought about

protection. If you had asked, they would all have thought that you were =

or worse, a pooftah or something!

This was in 1960. We were even =

in the lab, over the dogfish.

Makes you think about the term"mad =

doesn't it? And it becomes a little clearer why the '60s produced such a =

peculiar crop as us.

Thank heavens there is better =

us.

Peter

----- Original Message ----- 

David W.=

'akers Sent: Thursday, November 16, =

AMSubject: Re: formaldehyde

=

are considering venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST =

your Lab Safety catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your =

(that's where I buy mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of the =

i have worked with formaldehyde and i am =

near myself or my children. in case anyone is intrested i have =

Many of our laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin, formic =

methyl aldehyde). It is a common tissue preservative. A =

inhaled, absorbed though the skin, or contacted by the eyes. =

Formaldehyde is also a sensitizing agent. An air concentration =

is quickly irritating to the eyes; 20 ppm can cause permanent =

Rubber gloves, goggles and lab coats should always be worn =

working with formaldehyde or formaldehyde solutions and, in =

work with formaldehyde should be performed in a properly =

uncluttered fume hood or with the use of a respirator. =

always, contact EH&S to arrange for required testing and =

before respirator use.). When aqueous formaldehyde solutions are =

above their flash points, a potential for explosion hazard =

Store away 
from heat and flame. As with all laboratory =

not mouth pipet formaldehyde solutions and be sure that such =

Symptoms of exposure may include coughing, eye or skin =

dermititis, allergic reactions, difficulty in breathing, =

diarrhea. In case of exposure by inhalation, remove to fresh =

then call University Health Services, or, if breathing is =

call the Harvard Police[HOT LINK] for immediate medical =

eye or skin exposure, immediately flush with plenty of water for =

medical attention. In case of ingestion, call the Harvard =

LINK] for immediate medical attention. As with all =

__________________________________________________Do You =

Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C050B5.4EF8BA40--

from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Nov 17 06:29:45 2000

eAHCTiG26634

Subject: Re: formaldehyde

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C05131.6B1BB840

As an Ichthyology major in the late seventies and early eighties, it
wasn'tmuch better.In the work force, though, I've always had to use it under
a ventilated hoodor wear a respirator.  Oh, for the good old days..............

----- Original Message -----From: petermckean

Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 12:42 AMSubject: Re:
formaldehyde

You know, when I was a first year student at University, doing Zoology 1,we
used walk into a dissection lab with about 100 "dogfish" -read "littlesharks" -
laid out in trays of formalin, which is 40% formaldehyde solution,in a small
unventilated dissection laboratory. We were required to lift ourdogfish out of
the formalin and onto a bench, where we proceeded to spend 3hours with our
noses about 10" 
from it while we dissected it. Even now Irecall that a real olfactory
experience was the instant when one opened theotic capsule!

This went on every Wednesday for about 6 weeks or so, until the
dissectionmanual for that species was worked through. Nobody
recommended that weweargloves, nobody even thought about respiratory
protection. If you had asked,they would all have thought that you were
strange, or worse, a pooftah orsomething!

This was in 1960. We were even allowed to smoke in the lab, over thedogfish.

Makes you think about the term "mad scientist", doesn't it? And it becomesa
little clearer why the '60s produced such a peculiar crop as us.

Thank heavens there is better advice about now for people who use
thesechemicals, and for those who take the time to warn us.

Peter----- Original Message -----From: David W. Smith

Cc: rod 'akersSent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 7:04 AMSubject: Re:
formaldehyde

On formaldehyde, I agree completely with Timothy.  If you areconsidering
venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, FIRST consult yourLab Safety
catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for your respirator (that'swhere I buy
mine, yada, yada). One unprotected whiff of the stuff and you'llunderstand,
as well as pickle your innards.dws.timothy troester wrote:

i have worked with formaldehyde and i am sure some ofyou have also. 
getting a lung full is a disturbingexperience.  i, myself, would not want a
bottle of thestuff near myself or my children. in case anyone isintrested i
have found the following. really, this isnot just a matter of degree. this is
dangerous stuff.just concerned for my brothers.  timothyMany of our
laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin,formic aldehyde, methyl aldehyde).
It is a commontissue preservative. A carcinogen and possiblemutagen,
formaldehyde is highly toxic if swallowed,inhaled, absorbed though the skin,
or contacted by theeyes. Formaldehyde is also a sensitizing agent. An
airconcentration of 2 ppm is quickly irritating to theeyes; 20 ppm can cause
permanent clouding of thecornea after only one exposure.

Rubber gloves, goggles and lab coats should always beworn when working with
formaldehyde or formaldehydesolutions and, in general, all work with
formaldehydeshould be performed in a properly functioning anduncluttered
fume hood or with the use of a respirator.(NOTE: As always, contact EH&S to
arrange for requiredtesting and training before respirator use.).
Whenaqueous formaldehyde solutions are heated above theirflash points, a
potential for explosion hazard exists.Store away 
from heat and flame. As with all laboratorychemicals, do not mouth pipet
formaldehyde solutionsand be sure that such solutions are clearly labeledwith
the full chemical name and hazard(s).

Symptoms of exposure may include coughing, eye or skinirritation or
dermititis, allergic reactions,difficulty in breathing, vomiting and diarrhea.
Incase of exposure by inhalation, remove to fresh air,then call University
Health Services, or, if breathingis difficult, call the Harvard Police[HOT LINK]
forimmediate medical attention. For eye or skin exposure,immediately flush
with plenty of water for at least 15minutes while removing contaminated
clothing, then getmedical attention. In case of ingestion, call theHarvard
Police[HOT LINK] for immediate medicalattention.As with all accidents, report
any exposure as soon aspossible to your Lab Supervisor and Lab Director.

Dispose of formaldehyde as hazardous waste.

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the
holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C05131.6B1BB840

As an Ichthyology major in the late seventies and =

eighties, it wasn't much better.In the work force, though, I've always had to
use it =

days..............

----- Original Message ----- 

petermckean 

Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000=

AMSubject: Re: formaldehyde

You know, when I was a first year=

University, doing Zoology 1, we used walk into a dissection lab with =

"dogfish" -read "little sharks" - laid out in trays of formalin, which =

formaldehyde solution, in a small unventilated dissection laboratory. =

required to lift our dogfish out of the formalin and onto a bench, =

proceeded to spend 3 hours with our noses about 10" 
from it while we =

it. Even now I recall that a real olfactory experience was the instant =

one opened the otic capsule!

This went on every Wednesday

weeks or so, until the dissection manual for that species was worked =

Nobody recommended that we wear gloves, nobody even thought about =

protection. If you had asked, they would all have thought that you =

strange, or worse, a pooftah or something!

This was in 1960. We were even=

smoke in the lab, over the dogfish.

Makes you think about the term=

scientist", doesn't it? And it becomes a little clearer why the '60s =

such a peculiar crop as us.

Thank heavens there is better =

now for people who use these chemicals, and for those who take the =

warn us.

Peter

----- Original Message ----- 

David=

'akers Sent: Thursday, November 16,=

AMSubject: Re: =formaldehydeOn formaldehyde, I agree completely with =

you are considering venturing into aldehydes, I would certainly, =

consult your Lab Safety catalog for an aldehyde cartridge for =

respirator (that's where I buy mine, yada, yada). One unprotected =

the stuff and you'll understand, as well as pickle your innards. =

i have worked with formaldehyde and i am =

near myself or my children. in case anyone is intrested i have =

the following. really, this is not just a matter of degree. =

Many of our laboratories use formaldehyde (formalin, formic =

aldehyde, methyl aldehyde). It is a common tissue =

carcinogen and possible mutagen, formaldehyde is highly toxic =

swallowed, inhaled, absorbed though the skin, or contacted by =

concentration of 2 ppm is quickly irritating to the eyes; =

can cause permanent clouding of the cornea after only one =

Rubber gloves, goggles and lab coats should always be worn =

working with formaldehyde or formaldehyde solutions and, in =

functioning and uncluttered fume hood or with the use of a =

(NOTE: As always, contact EH&S to arrange for required =

and training before respirator use.). When aqueous =

solutions are heated above their flash points, a potential for =

explosion hazard exists. Store away 
from heat and flame. As =

laboratory chemicals, do not mouth pipet formaldehyde =

and be sure that such solutions are clearly labeled with =

Symptoms of exposure may include coughing, eye or skin =

or dermititis, allergic reactions, difficulty in breathing, =

and diarrhea. In case of exposure by inhalation, remove to =

difficult, call the Harvard Police[HOT LINK] for immediate =

attention. For eye or skin exposure, immediately flush with =

water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated =

then get medical attention. In case of ingestion, call the =

Police[HOT LINK] for immediate medical attention. As with =

accidents, report any exposure as soon as possible to your Lab =

__________________________________________________Do You =

Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C05131.6B1BB840--

from MLang@MuellerIndustries.com Fri Nov 17 07:25:44 2000

eAHDPhG27150

(5.5.2650.21)

saltwein@worldnet.att.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Heating
varnish

Steve,I saw the posting a while back which suggested the electric blanket. 
Itryed it and it worked GREAT.  Just a word of caution,  do not cut thewires! 
They are not like standard wire, they are special (at least the oneI used) and
need a unique splicing process.  Good luck.

Mark

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 8:34 PM

Subject:      Re: Heating varnish

Steve,I believe someone on the list mentioned the possibility of using
theheater wire 
from an electric blanket, wrapping it around the tube and using the gadget
that keeps you 
from roasting to regulate the heat. I thought it wasa great idea, but have yet
to run into an old blanket at a thrift store.Maybe it never gets cold enough in
LA to trade in your old blanket for a newone!Mike

from djhall@cisco.com Fri Nov 17 07:28:53 2000

eAHDSpG27274

Subject: Re: Heating varnish

Just a thought,Could you put a "TEE" in this outer 2-1/4 tube, above the
concretefloor? You could then control the amount of hot air is blown into the
tee withyour adjustable heat gun, to heat the varnish to a acceptable steady-
statetemperature. Direct the escaping air movement away 
from the extractingrod.

Dan

At 07:34 AM 11/16/00 -0800, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Hello All,

Have the hole in the concrete. Presently auguring the dirt out. I amtrying to
decide what I will heat the varnish with. 

I will have a 2-1/4" thin walled tube 3-1/2' below my basement floor anda thin
walled tube of 1-3/4" (outside diameter) inside of it. I havelooked at the pipe
wrap heaters but don't like the idea that you can'tcontrol the heat.

I was thinking about purchasing a 50 watt aquarium heater and droppingit in
the bottom of my housing tube, thereby having the ability tocontrol the
temperature. Thoughts?

Also looking for the right motor for draw rate and reversability.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

from briansr@point-net.com Fri Nov 17 09:52:53 2000

eAHFqqG00845

Subject: Re:revocation

Hi gangI just rec'd an e-mail 
from a friend in the answering the revocation post.HMMMMMMM !Dare I post it
on the list,and risk a broadside 
from across thePond??Cheers Brian

from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 17 09:54:25 2000

eAHFsOG00960

Subject: Re: Heating varnish

Steve,I doubt you'd have room but there are controllable immersion
heaters;McMaster-Carr, Graingers, etc.There are also small, reversible,
geared motors in a variety of ranges; samesources. I use a 1 rpm with a
threaded pulley for picking up the line. Thethreading keeps the line moving
laterally across the face of the pulley, andthe diameter of the pulley
determines the pick-up rate.

M-D

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Heating varnish

Hello All,

Have the hole in the concrete. Presently auguring the dirt out. I amtrying to
decide what I will heat the varnish with.

I will have a 2-1/4" thin walled tube 3-1/2' below my basement floor anda thin
walled tube of 1-3/4" (outside diameter) inside of it. I havelooked at the pipe
wrap heaters but don't like the idea that you can'tcontrol the heat.

I was thinking about purchasing a 50 watt aquarium heater and droppingit in
the bottom of my housing tube, thereby having the ability tocontrol the
temperature. Thoughts?

Also looking for the right motor for draw rate and reversability.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Nov 17 10:27:11 2000

eAHGRAG02233

Subject: Re:revocation

eAHGRAG02234

I don't recall us being afraid of their "broadsides" in 1776, why should we
beafraid now??????

----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: Re:revocation

Hi gangI just rec'd an e-mail 
from a friend in the answering the revocation post.HMMMMMMM !Dare I post it
on the list,and risk a broadside 
from across thePond??Cheers Brian

from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Nov 17 12:45:08 2000

eAHIj2G06913

Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:45:02 +0000

Subject: Re: revocation

Go to print.......Paul across the pond

John Kenealy wrote:

I don't recall us being afraid of their "broadsides" in 1776, why should webe
afraid now??????

----- Original Message -----From: brian sturrock 

Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 10:51 AMSubject: Re:revocation

Hi gangI just rec'd an e-mail 
from a friend in the answering the revocation post.HMMMMMMM !Dare I post it
on the list,and risk a broadside 
from acrossthePond??Cheers Brian

from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Nov 17 14:15:49 2000

eAHKFmG10234

Subject: Re:revocation

But we had strong and brilliant leadership in 1776.

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re:revocation

I don't recall us being afraid of their "broadsides" in 1776, why should webe
afraid now??????

----- Original Message -----From: brian sturrock 

Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 10:51 AMSubject: Re:revocation

Hi gangI just rec'd an e-mail 
from a friend in the answering the revocation post.HMMMMMMM !Dare I post it
on the list,and risk a broadside 
from acrossthePond??Cheers Brian

from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Nov 17 15:23:28 2000

eAHLNRG13075

Subject: Re:revocation

eAHLNSG13076

Amen to that!!

----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: Re:revocation

But we had strong and brilliant leadership in 1776.> -----Original Message-----
From: John Kenealy 

Date: Friday, November 17, 2000 11:27 AMSubject: Re:revocation

I don't recall us being afraid of their "broadsides" in 1776, why should webe
afraid now??????

----- Original Message -----From: brian sturrock 

Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 10:51 AMSubject: Re:revocation

Hi gangI just rec'd an e-mail 
from a friend in the answering the revocation post.HMMMMMMM !Dare I post it
on the list,and risk a broadside 
from acrossthePond??Cheers Brian

from piscator@macatawa.org Fri Nov 17 18:02:54 2000

eAI02rG18075

Subject: tapers

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C050C9.74681280

Where was there a list of lots of tapers (not Jerry's) that included =Rob's
PHY Boat Rod?  I can't seem to find it any loger.

Brian

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C050C9.74681280

Where was there a list of =

any loger.

Brian

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C050C9.74681280--

from briansr@point-net.com Fri Nov 17 19:40:07 2000

eAI1e6G19547

Subject: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE - REPLY

Here tisOh and remember In with the good air out with the bad Cheers
BrianDear England

Having reviewed your "NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE" we
arepreparedto accept, subject to certain conditions and satisfactory
answers to thefollowing questions.

CONDITIONS

1.We must be allowed the option of playing winter rules in golf
matches.Scores are much better when we find ourselves unrestricted by
arbitraryandcapricious (found in Webster's New World Dictionary) rules,
ostensiblypromulgated over 100 yrs ago by a man wearing a skirt.  Like, you
know,getmodern.

2. While we don't mind parting with Utah (where exactly is Utah?),
wealsoinsist that New York, based on it's recent elections, be given to
theFrenchCanadians.  We feel the long term effects of Hillary Clinton will
besignificantly more devastating than a nuclear attack.  Additionally,
wewould have to seek the advice of the Chinese to assure proper use of
ourweapons.

3. We also insist that California be offered up in mandatory auction toMexico
and Vietnam, since those are the only two languages spoken there.Gays
would not be permitted to emmigrate, and negotiations
regardingthenationality of actors cast in "good guy" roles would need to
beconductedwith either of those countries.  Additionally, proceeds 
from the salewouldbe used to offset outrageously high petrol prices that
would be imposedonus, not to mention taxes required to support nationalizing
health care.

4. Quite frankly, we don't know what to propose with regard to
PalmCounty,Florida.  It has been a place where we have secretly been storing
ourmentaldeficients, and we do not believe it would be in any of our interests
toretain it, now that the secrect is out.  (besides, with the the
arrivalofJesse Jackson and 150 barristers it is now full.)

5.  You are more than welcome to add a holiday in November, on any
date,andcall it whatever you like.  Keeping in mind, however, that America
doesnotenjoy the same 12 month winters that you do, we insist on a holiday
tosubstitute for July 4.  Said holiday must be shhhhheduled during
oursummermonths.

QUESTIONS

1.  Will we be permitted to retain a sense of humour, or must we
conformtoBritish standards?

2.  May we have an occasional "Tea Party," preferrably somewhere in
thenortheast?

3.  Will we be allowed to occasionally remove our jackets and ties?

4.  May we still drink coffee?

5.  Must we delete "f**k, 
from our vocabulary?  (I was unable to find itinthe Oxford Dictionary)

6.  When are elections for the Queen?  How long does she serve? 
Whenareelections for the King?  Is Bill Clinton eligible to run for
eitheroffice?If he wins the Kingly election, does Hillary become Queen, or
does shehaveto be elected seperately?  And what about Princess Chelsea?

7.  Is there really a difference between English and Australian
accents?Please describe.

8.  What is a pound?  May we still use dollars?

9.  As contrasted with real "football," what is rugby?  Is that thesportwhere,
instead of the participants wearing full kevlar body armour, thespectators
do, instead?  Is that the sport where all the participants,inshort pants I
might add, jump into a pile in the middle of the field,and doGod knows what to
each other?  At least our sexual deviancies areconfinedmainly to the
quarterback and center, and are performed out in theopen.  Asto playing
with girls, we find that condition acceptable on its face.

EDITORIAL

Permit me to offer some insight into recent events in our country. 
8yearsago, when Clinton took office, he took the starch out of the
WhiteHouse.(or did Monica take it out on her dress?)  Oh well, you get the
idea.Anyway, since our laws do not permit him to serve another term,
weattemptedto find an acceptable substitute.  Someone that would provide
us, andtherest of the world, with the same degree of dignity, pride and
competencethat we became accustomed to under his leadership.  Someone
not afraidtodeclare war on Haiti..not afraid to bomb an aspirin factory in
Sudan todistract 
from tawdry events at home...willing to commit our fullmilitarymight to an
international "meals on wheels" program....willing to allowallAmericans equal
access to Motel 1600 for the same price, etc, etc, etc. Wewere unable to
find a substitute with the same qualifications.  ErgoNov.7th.  Since that
time, however, both candidates have taken steps tobringtheir images more
into line with what we are accustomed to.  Right nowAlGore is leading.  I do
note with interest that one of your terms...thatbeing the rt. hon. Tony Blair
as our (is it MP or PM?) may offer thesolution to the quandry in which we find
ourselves.  In any case, we arepepared , subject to the above conditions, to
allow the revocation ofourindependence.  Continuing to be the only world
leader is just not asmuchfun as it was when we thought we knew who the
enemy were.  We tried todeclare war on Quebec, but because none of us
speak French, and theirlawsinsist French be spoken, they sent our
declarations back, refusing torecognize them.

Finally, should your "NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE" not
berevokedbefore 11:59 pm est on Friday, November 17,2000, you will
findyourselves inpossession of our lands, our hearts and, most importantly,
our minds.Failure to clarify your intent prior to midnight could result in
ournewsnetworks declaring a winner of the recent Presidential election.  On
theother hand, deadlines in this country have been known to be
somewhatflexible.

Finally, as to your question re: JFK.  How do you know for sure thathe'sdead?

Please advise.

Very truly yours,

America-- "Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 17 20:25:01 2000

eAI2P0G20310

Subject: Re: tapers

--=====================_19610294==_.ALT

PointDimension00.07450.092100.116150.125200.143250.166300.189350.194400.207450.226500.236550.268600.280650.292700.307750.325800.341850.356860.356At 07:06 PM 11/17/00 -0500, Brian Creek
wrote:Where was there a list of lots of tapers (not Jerry's) that included
Rob's PHY Boat Rod?  I can't seem to find it any loger.

Brian

--=====================_19610294==_.ALT

PointDimension00.07450.092100.116150.125200.143250.166300.189350.194400.207450.226500.236550.268600.280650.292700.307750.325800.341850.356860.356

At 07:06 PM 11/17/00 -0500, Brian Creek wrote:Where wasthere a list of
lots of tapers (not Jerry's) that included Rob's PHY Boat

Brian

--=====================_19610294==_.ALT--

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Nov 17 20:34:03 2000

eAI2Y2G20551

with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:36:23 -0800

Subject: Re: tapers

eAI2Y2G20552

Brian,

Go to Rodmakers, then the "software" link, then the "Thanks to
FrankStetzer" link, then the "Classic Rod Taper" link.  The tapers 
from our listservincluding the one you mention are posted there. 

Chrismcdowellc@laencc.edu

11/17  4:07p >>>Where was there a list of lots of tapers (not Jerry's) that
included Rob's PHYBoat Rod?  I can't seem to find it any loger.

Brian

from piscator@macatawa.org Fri Nov 17 21:04:49 2000

eAI34mG21264

Subject: Re: tapers

Thanks to everyone that answered!  

Brian

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 18 00:01:46 2000

eAI61hG23223

Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE - REPLY

Brian,Can't speak for GB but I can advise on some elements of your post.

QUESTIONS5.  Must we delete "f**k, 
from our vocabulary?  (I was unable to find itinthe Oxford Dictionary)Pretty
certain that's an old Norman word so prob made it's first appearancearound
1066 or so. Possibly not in most dictionarys because its been done and used
so longit's prob passed the attention of most editors. It is a true word
thoughand my dictionary has it.

6.  When are elections for the Queen?  How long does she serve? 
Whenareelections for the King?  Is Bill Clinton eligible to run for
eitheroffice?If he wins the Kingly election, does Hillary become Queen, or
does shehaveto be elected seperately?  And what about Princess Chelsea?

Bill being the consumate politician he is would no doubt start a line thatwould
run 100 years. He'd come to be known as King Billy the teflon.While elections
aren't held very often for kings and queens until theybecame the powerless
constitunional relics they have become  and so havenopower worth anybody's
interest in taking and too much public support (forsome unfathomable
reason) for Parlament to be able to abolish,  familysholding the crown had to
survive infantricide, fratricide, homicide, andnormal garden variety politics
always involving a great deal of money andsupport 
from backers such as robber barrons, special interest groups, minorearls
and dukes who ran their little section of the county to keep or gainthe power
to be in a possition to make a try for the crown and having donethat they
still on occasion needed the nod 
from a select group of highlyeducated men of law called Cardinals. The
cardinals wore expensive clothesand commanded vast fortunes, lived
separately to most people because theywere special due to their exalted
state due to having attended all theright colleges and never making career
limiting moves. They knew a lotabout law but little about justice.They were
supposed to be inpartial and follow the law however they did havepreferances
and were quite willing interpret the law in such a way as tosupport the person
they felt would be to their advantage. The judgementsare always impecably
legal, just mangled to suit.After making the crown the monarch then had to
keep their supportershappy

accustomed.Generaly though, when it was all said and done and the
excitementsurounding a new king died down it was almost impossible to tell
thedifferance between the old king and the new apart 
from personal differanceslike one may be very pius, one may have had an eye
for the intern scullerymaids, that sort of thing. The real process of
governing was never sodifferent you could tell just by looking.Meet the new
boss, same as the old boss sort of thing.

Thankfuly in most democracies all this has changed. Now  there is no needto
kill people though it may help sometimes. The usual thing now is
normalgarden variety politics always involving a great deal of money and
support

from backers such as buisness men, special interest groups, minor
partyofficials and senators who run their little section of the county to
keepor gain the power to be in a possition to make a try for office and
havingdone that in certain occasions they still needed the nod 
from a selectgroup of highly educated men of law called lawyers and judges.
The lawyersand judges wear expensive clothes and commanded vast
fortunes, livedseparately to most people because they were special due to
their exaltedstate due to having attended all the right colleges and never
making careerlimiting moves. They know a lot about law but little about
justice.They are supposed to be inpartial and follow the law however they do
havepreferances and are quite willing interpret the law in such a way as
tosupport the person they feel would be to their advantage. The
judgementsare always impecably legal, just mangled to suit.After making
office the leader then has to keep their supporters happy byenabling them to
continue to enjoy the life to which they have becomeaccustomed.Generaly
though, when it's all said and done and the excitement suroundinga new...well
you decide for yourself.

Interestingly in Britain a bloke called Oliver Cromwell did what a lot ofpeople
would like to the king and declared himself Lord Protector with thebacking of
the parlament.In time though the crown gained enough strength to re-
instigate itselfmainly via certain groups in Parlament itself as the seat of
power for aperiod of time which is a worthwhile lesson to remember if a
democracy everfinds itself finding leaders in any other way than by properly
conductedelections and begin allowing highly exalted people with very
goodeducations make decesions that counter a or alter a vote. Same applies
to afew very dangerous people with tanks and guns that decide they can
dobetter than an elected government.Regardless of how the select group
come to be in the possition of making adecesion, if it's not a direct election
by the people it's something lessthan a full democracy. Sorry but it's true.

7.  Is there really a difference between English and Australian
accents?Please describe.Steady on there mate! You can tell the Englishman
because they're the onesdrinking Fosters. Just listen for a second or two.

9.  As contrasted with real "football," what is rugby?  Is that thesportwhere,
instead of the participants wearing full kevlar body armour, thespectators
do, instead?  Is that the sport where all the participants,inshort pants I
might add, jump into a pile in the middle of the field,and doGod knows what to
each other?  At least our sexual deviancies areconfinedmainly to the
quarterback and center, and are performed out in theopen.  Asto playing
with girls, we find that condition acceptable on its face.

You're confusing soccar with Rugby, the game they play in heaven and
thegame American football became.In Rugby you're not allowed to wear much
padding and I know if anybodypatted me on the backside that person would
have  lost teeth.Certain games have evolved 
from Rugby, normaly because the participantsdidn't like getting hurt because
Rugby's so rough and also to alloweverybody to get their breath back. All
that running can tier you out ifyou're not in shape.

EDITORIAL

Permit me to offer some insight into recent events in our country. 
8yearsago, when Clinton took office, he took the starch out of the
WhiteHouse.(or did Monica take it out on her dress?)  Oh well, you get the
idea.Anyway, since our laws do not permit him to serve another term,
weattemptedto find an acceptable substitute.  Someone that would provide
us, andtherest of the world, with the same degree of dignity, pride
andcompetencethat we became accustomed to under his leadership. 
Someone notafraidtodeclare war on Haiti..not afraid to bomb an aspirin
factory in Sudan todistract 
from tawdry events at home...willing to commit our full

Any king would have done the same. Read "The Price" by Machievelli.
I'mcertain Clinton, Bush, Gore, Czar Nichollis, Queen Liz II , absolutelyNixon,
Thatcher, Suhato, etc etc etc all have.

Finally, as to your question re: JFK.  How do you know for sure thathe's
dead?Didn't I see him with Elvis at at the bus stop?

Please advise.

Tony

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that.

Unknown 

/*************************************************************************/

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 18 07:30:37 2000

eAIDUaG26560

Subject: power fibers contributions (info not dinero)

--=====================_39139966==_.ALT

If anyone is considering contributing to the January issue of Power Fibers
Online Magazine , would you please let me know off list. I am trying to make
enough space for everyone who has promised a piece, and I need aquick count
of what is en route. If anyone has something for publication that has not
made contact with me, that is okay also.I apologize for using list
bandwith.**Could anyone who is interested in even a future contribution
contact me, so I can make an address book and keep this off Rodmakers?**I
will be out and about today, so you might not get a response 
from me until tomorrow. Thanks.Best regards,BobBob
Mauluccidownandacross.comPower Fibers Online MagazineSplit Cane Fly Rods
and Silk Lines

--=====================_39139966==_.ALT

If anyone is considering contributing to the January issue ofPower Fibers
Online Magazine , would you please let me know off list. Iam trying to make
enough space for everyone who has promised a piece, andI need a quick count
of what is en route. If anyone has something forpublication that has not
made contact with me, that is okay also.I apologize for using list
bandwith.**Could anyone who is interested in even a future
contributioncontact me, so I can make an address book and keep this
offRodmakers?**I will be out and about today, so you might not get a
response fromme until tomorrow. Thanks.Best regards,Bob

Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com Power Fibers Online MagazineSplitCane Fly
Rods and Silk Lines 

--=====================_39139966==_.ALT--

from Canerods@aol.com Sat Nov 18 11:56:29 2000

eAIHuSG00318

Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE - REPLY

In a message dated 11/17/00 10:02:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
avyoung@iinet.net.au writes:

5.  Must we delete "f**k, 
from our vocabulary?  (I was unable to find itinthe Oxford Dictionary)Pretty
certain that's an old Norman word so prob made it's first appearancearound
1066 or so. Possibly not in most dictionarys because its been done and used
so longit's prob passed the attention of most editors. It is a true word
thoughand my dictionary has it.

I believe this word came about 
from the signs placed outside of prisoner cells at the Old Bailey. The sign
would tell for what crime that the prisoner was locked up for ---> "For
Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" was abbreviated into that well used rodmaking
term.

Just as lawyers today are known for practicing before the bar and taking a
"bar" exam. In days of old, the largest building in many towns was the public
house. (or pub) A bar was the barrier dropped down to close a pub's "bar"
when the local court was being held at the pub. Hence, one conducted one's
law practice in front of or "before" the bar.

My question is: Is the rodmaking measurement "RCH" a metric or an English
measurement term? Maybe it's a universal standard? 

dgb

from Canerods@aol.com Sat Nov 18 11:57:51 2000

eAIHvoG00425

Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE - REPLY

All,

Sorry my last was supposed to go to Tony.

dgb

from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Nov 18 17:40:21 2000

eAINeKG04786

Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE - REPLY

My question is: Is the rodmaking measurement "RCH" a metric or an
Englishmeasurement term? Maybe it's a universal standard? 

dgb

Actually RCH was developed in the late 1700's to early 1800's
right(pronounced RAT) here in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Appalachia.  To
thebest of my recollection it had something to deal with how many Corn Cobs
ittook to wipe ones butt (arse for those more proper) while in the
"Outhouse"or Privy.

As a matter of pure fact one of my neighbors in Western NC where I grew
uphad an outside privy, and had two colors of corn cobs.  Red ones for
theinitial wiping, and White ones for checking how well the first wiping didthe
job.  So you all can put two and two together and see the scenario.First a red
one and then a white one, and if the white one showed evidencethen another
red one and then a white one to check the status again.  Nowonder the entire
family walked funny.

So I guess if you could wipe your private parts and get within a Red C%#tHair
then you were within tolerances (probably within a couple ofthousandths).

Have a happy thanksgiving folks

Joe and Rose

from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Nov 18 21:30:25 2000

eAJ3UOG07697

Subject: Re: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE - REPLY

avyoung@iinet.net.au,Canerods@aol.com

O.K.-being a farm boy I'm not particularly prudish but aren't we a tad off the
rod building thread that this list is supposed to include? Come on
gentlemen(?) let's get with it.Hank.

from jhewittiii@springsips.com Sun Nov 19 13:19:40 2000

eAJJJdG15732

0000

springsips.com) (63.29.89.194)

Subject: Pin Removal

Can pins be removed 
from old loose ferules without destroying or dentingthe ferule?  I would like
to be able to re-mount the originalferules...ThanksJohn

from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Nov 19 13:36:42 2000

eAJJafG16104

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: Pin Removal

John Hewitt wrote:

Can pins be removed 
from old loose ferules without destroying or dentingthe ferule?  I would like
to be able to re-mount the originalferules...ThanksJohnYes they can! First
find the pin (which sometimes can be tough) thendrive it out with a punch
slightly smaller than the .040" pinning wire.On cheaper rods the pin does not
go all the way through and will have tobe sunk into the cane deep enough to
allow removal of the ferrule. Marty

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Nov 19 18:01:26 2000

eAK01OG20140

Subject: Re: Pin Removal

i just took a 1/16" pin punch, and carefully ground it down to about .035"on
my tool grinder. (fine stone)

GMA

from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Nov 20 09:18:15 2000

eAKFIEG02211

+0100

Subject: Tool bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0530E.F6847FA0

Listers

mortising reel seats.

should anyone know of source and price, please advice.

regards,carsten

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0530E.F6847FA0

Listers

Am looking for a source for a 3/8"  "thumbnail" mill =

mortising reel seats.

advice.

regards,carsten

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0530E.F6847FA0--

from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Nov 20 09:25:37 2000

eAKFPaG02547

+0100

Subject: Tool bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0530F.FE30CDC0

Listers,

I think it should be a 5/8" mill bit - as seen i Waynes book.

regards,carsten

daniaflyrods@mail.dk

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0530F.FE30CDC0

Listers,

I think it should be a 5/8" mill bit - as seen i =

book.

regards,carsten

daniaflyrods@mail.dk

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0530F.FE30CDC0--

from jhewittiii@springsips.com Mon Nov 20 09:33:14 2000

eAKFXDG02993

0000

springsips.com) (63.29.89.131)

Subject: Pin Removal

Thanks to all for the suggestions on pin removal.  I will try both thepunch and
the drill systems of removal and see which system works best

Thanks!!!John

from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 20 09:34:18 2000

eAKFYHG03127

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

application, there is a new product just out. Go to www.miclog.com/frog Isee
some limitations here, but it would seem to make a good power feed,
ifnothing else. There is no brake on the unit, so without a relief cutthreading
could become quite interesting. I know of no one who has testedthe unit, but
one is enroute to Nick Carter. He should have a report in acouple of weeks.

M-D

----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: Lathes (Again)

Ordering a Taig directly 
from Forest Daly, the owner of Taig, is a prettypainless thing. I balked at the
cost of a motor, to which he said he hadsome rebuilt ones for a quarter of
the price. I asked for the spindlereamed, no problem he said. Really, the Taig
is a great machine and I canhardly wait for the thread cutting mechanism
presently in development beout on the market.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 6:00 PM

Subject: Re: Lathes (Again)

I did forget to mention that I had reamed the spindlethrough-hole to
25/64,also. The Taig are now made in Arizona, and by all accountson the
Taigtoolse-board (not factory connected) the new CNC mill is farsuperior to
anythingin its class. The Taig lathe lacks in certain aesthetics,especially
ascompared to the Sherline, but for what the Sherline lathealone costs,
onemay get the Taig lathe, the motor (I wouldn't), and most ofthe
accessories.There are those on the e-board who have both lathes, and
thedifferences inpractical application are miniscule.

M-D

from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Mon Nov 20 09:42:57 2000

eAKFguG03517

fwd06.sul.t-online.com

Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:53:30 +0100

Subject: Re: Tool bit

Hi Carsten,

Robert Venneri offers fingernailbits on his homepage. Check out 

www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/

He sells 5/8 fingernail bits for $ 25 unmodified and 5/8 fingernailbits

...bla  bla  bla .....I was looking for that kind of tool bit all over Germany and
couldn'tfind it, so I ordered it 
from Robert. Haven't got it yet, so I can'ttell you anything how it works.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 20 10:18:26 2000

eAKGIPG05076

Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:18:15 -0800

Subject: Re: Tool bit

Grizzly Imports in the US offers them for a little less money than
BobVenneri.  There is a link off of the rodmakers page.  Seems to me that
thepart number is C1215, or something like that.

One word of advice -- Don't let the mandrel which hold the reel seat
fillercome in contact with the moving router bit!  Bad scene.

Harry

Ralf Ladda wrote:

Hi Carsten,

Robert Venneri offers fingernailbits on his homepage. Check out

www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/

He sells 5/8 fingernail bits for $ 25 unmodified and 5/8 fingernailbits

...bla  bla  bla .....I was looking for that kind of tool bit all over Germany and
couldn'tfind it, so I ordered it 
from Robert. Haven't got it yet, so I can'ttell you anything how it works.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 20 10:40:16 2000

eAKGeFG05962

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)

Subject: Re: Tool bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C052DE.2C742380

Carsten,Contact Bob Venerri.  I bought one 
from him.  He carries a 1/2", =5/8" and a modified.  I use both the 1/2 and
5/8 depending on what type =of reel seat I'm building.  He is very reasonable
and a pleasure to deal =with.  He also has a modified bit, that I haven't tried,
but definitely =

His website addy is http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html

LaterBob-----Original Message-----From: Carsten J=F8rgensen 

Date: Monday, November 20, 2000 9:25 AMSubject: Tool bit

Listers,

I think it should be a 5/8" mill bit - as seen i Waynes book.

regards,carsten

daniaflyrods@mail.dk

------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C052DE.2C742380

Carsten,

=

His website addy is http://www.ulster.net=/~rvenneri/index.html

LaterBob

-----Original =

Rodmakers List <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=

bitListers,

I think it should be a 5/8" mill bit - as =

Waynes book.

regards,carsten

daniaflyrods@mail.dk

------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C052DE.2C742380--

from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 20 10:53:56 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAKGrtG06721

Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:53:51 -0600

Subject: Re: Pin Removal

You would have a VERY hard time keeping a drill 
from "wandering", whichcould mess up the ferrule. Driving a pin out w/ the
tiny pin punch is muchcleaner.

GMA

from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Mon Nov 20 10:57:30 2000

eAKGvTG06978

fwd00.sul.t-online.com

Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:08:02 +0100

Subject: Re: Tool bit

Hi Harry,

I've already tried Grizzly Imports, but when I checked their homepage acouple
of months ago, they did not sell anything outside the U.S. .Since I'm 
from Germany I was out off luck.

Ralf

Harry Boyd schrieb:

Grizzly Imports in the US offers them for a little less money than
BobVenneri.  There is a link off of the rodmakers page.  Seems to me that
thepart number is C1215, or something like that.

One word of advice -- Don't let the mandrel which hold the reel seat
fillercome in contact with the moving router bit!  Bad scene.

Harry

Ralf Ladda wrote:

Hi Carsten,

Robert Venneri offers fingernailbits on his homepage. Check out

www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/

He sells 5/8 fingernail bits for $ 25 unmodified and 5/8 fingernailbits

...bla  bla  bla .....I was looking for that kind of tool bit all over Germany and
couldn'tfind it, so I ordered it 
from Robert. Haven't got it yet, so I can'ttell you anything how it works.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Mon Nov 20 11:01:20 2000

eAKH1JG07254

fwd00.sul.t-online.com

Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:11:58 +0100

Subject: Re: Tool bit

Dear Bill,

I'm actually not that experienced with metal work. I've started workingwith a
lathe when I started building split cane rods, and that has beenmaybe a year
or less ago. I'm using a small scale metal lathe 
from aGerman Company called "Proxxon", it's the model PD 230 and it
workspretty good. I guess it comes pretty close to a Sherline.

Regards 

Ralf

CCGGLOBAL@aol.com schrieb:

Dear Ralf:  What Lathe do you like the best ?  sounds like you areexperienced
with metal work.

Thanks and Best Regards !

Bill Campbell : e-mail :  ccgglobal@aol.com

from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Mon Nov 20 21:50:25 2000

eAL3oOG26840

eAL3oIZ181252;Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:50:18 -0500

Subject: Re: Tool bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0532B.B0390580

Carsten,

You could check out MLCS at www.mlcswoodworking.com.  They have quite
=inexpensive carbide router bits.  I got a 60 degree v-groove bit 
from =them a couple of years ago to cut grooves for rough planing forms
and =was quite happy with it.  However, I ordered a fingernail bit 
from them =and the radius was larger than I expected.  I believe that what
they =list as the diameter of the bead is actually the width of the bead. 
=Since the bead is 1/4 round, it is substantially less than the diameter. =No
commercial interest, etc.

-----Original Message-----From: Carsten J=F8rgensen 

Date: Monday, November 20, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Tool bit

Listers

mortising reel seats.

should anyone know of source and price, please advice.

regards,carsten

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0532B.B0390580

Carsten,

You could check out MLCS at www.mlcswoodworking.com.&nbsp=

from them a couple of years ago to cut grooves for rough planing forms =

interest, etc.

-----Original =

Rodmakers List <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=

bitListers

"thumbnail" mill bit for mortising reel seats.

advice.

regards,carsten

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0532B.B0390580--

from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Nov 20 22:37:50 2000

eAL4bmG27895

E9FADBF01

Subject: Andy Barr Rods

A week or so ago someone was inquiring about Andy Barr, a Canadian
rodmaker.  Going through my records tonight looking for something else I
founda detailed set of notes about an Andy Barr 5 sided rod that I repaired
andrefinished a year or two ago, a "frigate 8".  If that person wants thisinfo
please send me off line your mail address and I will mail you a photocopy.  I
will be away 
from the list until Thursday.

from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Nov 21 00:46:00 2000

eAL6jxG00949

Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:45:59 +0100

"Rodmakers List" 

Subject: Sv: Tool bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0538F.D93C2480

Robert

The URL did not connect. Typing error?

regards,carsten

Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 4:54 AMSubject: Re: Tool bit

Carsten,

You could check out MLCS at http://www.mlcswoodworking.com  They
have=quite inexpensive carbide router bits.  I got a 60 degree v-groove bit =

from them a couple of years ago to cut grooves for rough planing forms
=and was quite happy with it.  However, I ordered a fingernail bit 
from =them and the radius was larger than I expected.  I believe that what
=they list as the diameter of the bead is actually the width of the bead.
=Since the bead is 1/4 round, it is substantially less than the =diameter.  No
commercial interest, etc.

-----Original Message-----From: Carsten J=F8rgensen 

Date: Monday, November 20, 2000 7:22 AMSubject: Tool bit

Listers

mortising reel seats.

should anyone know of source and price, please advice.

regards,carsten

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0538F.D93C2480

Robert

The URL did not connect. Typing =error?

regards,carsten

----- Original Message ----- 

Kope 

Sent: Tuesday, November 21, =

AMSubject: Re: Tool bit

Carsten,

v-groove bit 
from them a couple of years ago to cut grooves for rough =

they list as the diameter of the bead is actually the width of the =

Since the bead is 1/4 round, it is substantially less than the =

No commercial interest, etc.

-----Original =

Rodmakers List <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=

bitListers

Am looking for a source for a 3/8" "thumbnail" =

mortising reel seats.

advice.

regards,carsten

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0538F.D93C2480--

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 21 15:22:13 2000

eALLMDG18416

13:22:14 PST

Subject: test

test

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Nov 21 16:08:45 2000

eALM8iG20210

+0100

Subject: Tool bit

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C05410.A8C274E0

Listers,

As Usual I=B4ve had great help 
from many of You.As far as I can see, what I need is Grizzly=B4s
C1215,which I am going to order.

Again, thank You to all who responded on and off List.

regards,

Carsten

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C05410.A8C274E0

Listers,

As Usual I=B4ve had great help 
from =

You.As far as I can see, what I need is =

C1215,which I am going toorder.

Again, thank You to all who responded =

List.

regards,

Carsten

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C05410.A8C274E0--

from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Tue Nov 21 21:36:40 2000

eAM3adG24773

Subject: Dressing ferrule stations

I was hand doing a ferrule station the other day when it occurred to methat
maybe an alternative to using a lathe to spin the rod maybe a jigcould be
designed with spring loaded "petals" in the end of tube thatwould be powered
by a mounted drill to taper the ferrule station. Therod mounted, and
supported so that the ferrule station would bisect theexact center of this
tool. Has anyone tried this or have any ideas abouthow to accomplish this?

from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Nov 21 22:09:59 2000

eAM49wG25237

;Wed, 22 Nov 2000 03:57:15 +0000

Subject: Re: Dressing ferrule stations

Hi Bill,

Nice to hear 
from you.  [I'm the guy that made that flamed Holbrook thatthe "Bait
Fisherman" and you fished at the Catskills Gathering inSept.]  I have turned
grips on my drill with satisfactory results, but Idon't think they're
concentrically stable enough to turn ferrules. Having said that, I turn my
stations by hand too.  That isn't exactlyperfect either, but I think it's slow
enough that things don't get "outof control" so fast that you can't do
something about it.

I'm basically in the same boat as you.  No lathe (no room either) andmaking
the best of it.

If you find a better way, I'm always all ears...

Good luck, and happy Thanksgiving!

Dennis

Bill Walters wrote:

I was hand doing a ferrule station the other day when it occurred to methat
maybe an alternative to using a lathe to spin the rod maybe a jigcould be
designed with spring loaded "petals" in the end of tube thatwould be powered
by a mounted drill to taper the ferrule station. Therod mounted, and
supported so that the ferrule station would bisect theexact center of this
tool. Has anyone tried this or have any ideas abouthow to accomplish this?

from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Nov 21 22:31:02 2000

eAM4V1G25664

Subject: Re: Dressing ferrule stations

Just a thought, but a while back I think it was Shawn Pineo that had
picturesof a dealy he called "FrankenLathe" or something like that which
wasinexpensive and didn't look too bad to build.  I'd guess a quick run
throughthe archives with a search for that name would get you the URL with
thepicture, but I don't know if the pics would still be there.  Might be worth
alook.

mac

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Hi Bill,

Nice to hear 
from you.  [I'm the guy that made that flamed Holbrook thatthe "Bait
Fisherman" and you fished at the Catskills Gathering inSept.]  I have turned
grips on my drill with satisfactory results, but Idon't think they're
concentrically stable enough to turn ferrules.Having said that, I turn my
stations by hand too.  That isn't exactlyperfect either, but I think it's slow
enough that things don't get "outof control" so fast that you can't do
something about it.

I'm basically in the same boat as you.  No lathe (no room either) andmaking
the best of it.

If you find a better way, I'm always all ears...

Good luck, and happy Thanksgiving!

Dennis

Bill Walters wrote:

I was hand doing a ferrule station the other day when it occurred to methat
maybe an alternative to using a lathe to spin the rod maybe a jigcould be
designed with spring loaded "petals" in the end of tube thatwould be powered
by a mounted drill to taper the ferrule station. Therod mounted, and
supported so that the ferrule station would bisect theexact center of this
tool. Has anyone tried this or have any ideas abouthow to accomplish this?

from farell@ma.ultranet.com Wed Nov 22 06:43:11 2000

eAMChBG29440

Subject: Re: Dressing ferrule stations

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_026B_01C05457.D3793D80

Look at Veritas.  The sell a devices for hand cutting (or using a hand =drill)
round tenons in variety of diameters.  Don't know if it would =work, or if
diameters would be correct, etc.  No commercial interest and =all that. 
Might be what you are looking for.

Thanks;

Tom Farrellfarell@ma.ultranet.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 3:04 AMSubject: Re: Dressing ferrule
stations

Hi Bill,

Nice to hear 
from you.  [I'm the guy that made that flamed Holbrook =thatthe "Bait
Fisherman" and you fished at the Catskills Gathering inSept.]  I have turned
grips on my drill with satisfactory results, but =I

Having said that, I turn my stations by hand too.  That isn't exactlyperfect
either, but I think it's slow enough that things don't get ="outof control" so
fast that you can't do something about it.

I'm basically in the same boat as you.  No lathe (no room either) andmaking
the best of it.

If you find a better way, I'm always all ears...

Good luck, and happy Thanksgiving!

Dennis

Bill Walters wrote:

I was hand doing a ferrule station the other day when it occurred to =methat
maybe an alternative to using a lathe to spin the rod maybe a =jigcould be
designed with spring loaded "petals" in the end of tube =thatwould be
powered by a mounted drill to taper the ferrule station. =Therod mounted,
and supported so that the ferrule station would bisect =theexact center of
this tool. Has anyone tried this or have any ideas =abouthow to accomplish
this?

------=_NextPart_000_026B_01C05457.D3793D80

Don't know if it would work, or if diameters would be correct, =

for.

Thanks;

Tom Farrellfarell@ma.ultranet.com

----- Original Message ----- 

Haftel 

Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=

Sent: Wednesday, November 22,=

AM

stations

made that flamed Holbrook thatthe "Bait Fisherman" and you fished =

satisfactory results, but Idon't think they're concentrically =

enough to turn ferrules. Having said that, I turn my stations by =

that things don't get "outof control" so fast that you can't do =

room either) andmaking the best of it.If you find a better =

hand doing a ferrule station the other day when it occurred to =

maybe an alternative to using a lathe to spin the rod maybe a =

could be designed with spring loaded "petals" in the end of tube =

would be powered by a mounted drill to taper the ferrule station. =

this?

------=_NextPart_000_026B_01C05457.D3793D80--

from b2g@jps.net Wed Nov 22 07:16:54 2000

eAMDGrG00025

0000

Subject: Snake Guides

Organization: Badges 2 Go

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0544B.E31294A0

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have some plans for
=making your own snake guides?  Also, I am looking for the dimensions of
=them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0544B.E31294A0

Helloall,

This is a shot in the =

help.

Robert =H.

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0544B.E31294A0--

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 22 08:01:30 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAME1TG00736

Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:59:19 -0600

Subject: Re: Dressing ferrule stations

depth of cut, so that you only got a certain dimension, but not any more !

GMA

from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Nov 22 08:19:32 2000

eAMEJWG01506

IAA15785 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2000

Subject: 1975 NY Angler's Club bombing

I was reading Ernest Schweibert's piece on cane rods last night,and he
mentions a 1975 bombing which destroyed and damaged manyhistorically
significant cane rods at (I assume) the New York Anglers Club.  Does anyone
know of the story behind
this?......................................................................Frank Stetzer                        
"...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                       than a
waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer." 
Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's Luck",
1899.

from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Wed Nov 22 08:26:20 2000

eAMEQJG01820

fwd02.sul.t-online.com

Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:36:42 +0100

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Hi Robert,

check out www.goldenwitch.com, Russ sells the LeClair Snake Maker. Itforms
snake guides sizes 1/0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. I'm using it and it worksgreat. He also
sells music wire to make the snakes from. I gotNickelSilver wire 
from www.metalworks.com/NickelS&W.htm. It's about $9

financial interest, bla...bla...bla....

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Robert Holder schrieb:

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have some plans

dimensions of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

from eestlow@yahoo.com Wed Nov 22 08:56:59 2000

eAMEuxG02792

2000 06:56:55 PST

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Max Satoh also has instructions on his website. See 

http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/all/eoverview.html

Best regards,-Ed Estlow

--- Ralf Ladda  wrote:Hi Robert,

check out www.goldenwitch.com, Russ sells theLeClair Snake Maker. Itforms
snake guides sizes 1/0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. I'musing it and it worksgreat. He also
sells music wire to make the snakesfrom. I gotNickelSilver wire
fromwww.metalworks.com/NickelS&W.htm. It's about $9

disclaimers, nofinancial interest, bla...bla...bla....

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Robert Holder schrieb:

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on thelist have some plans

looking for thedimensions of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from Soignier54@aol.com Wed Nov 22 09:20:30 2000

eAMFKOG03521

Subject: first listing

This is my first entry...to repair the tip side of my forms that I had cut too
deeply, I got out my belt sander and many belts and resurfaced the first
couple of feet. I only had to come down a few thousands, but I didn't want a
belly in the top of the forms where the original problem was so I redid the
whole top end. I dressed them with a file again and then VERY carefully recut
the groove. It worked out all right and was faster than doing the process by
hand with the file.  I'm also experimenting with some 100% cotton crocheting
thread for my Milward version of a binder. It's much larger that than the
quilting thread and only $4.50 for a 1000 yd ball at the local craft/fabric
store. I have to respool, but it's worth it for the cost...has anyone else tried
it ??            Brian 

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 22 09:27:02 2000

eAMFQmG03893

VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

Subject: RE: first listing

thread for my Milward version of a binder. It's much larger that than the
quilting thread and only $4.50 for a 1000 yd ball at the local craft/fabric
store. I have to respool, but it's worth it for the cost...has anyone else tried
it ??        

That's exactly what use. It works fine and is 100% cotton.

Richard

from trpgo@email.msn.com Wed Nov 22 09:27:07 2000

eAMFR6G03907

Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:27:10 -0800

Subject: Lie-Nielsen

I am trying to make up a Christmas list and one of the items that I havebeen
thinking about is the L-N 212 scraper plane.

The questions are:How much easier is the L-N 212 to use for final planning
than a handscraper.Is it worth the investment because it is very pricey?

Tom

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 22 09:35:22 2000

eAMFZKG04269

VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

"'Liste'" Subject: RE: Snake Guides

Ralf, I visited the metalworks site you mentioned and I see the wire
comescoiled on a spool. Doesn't that cause problems in making snake guides?
I'vealways used straight lengths of wire. Also, is nickle silver strong enough

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 9:27 AM

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Hi Robert,

check out www.goldenwitch.com, Russ sells the LeClair Snake Maker. Itforms
snake guides sizes 1/0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. I'm using it and it worksgreat. He also
sells music wire to make the snakes from. I gotNickelSilver wire 
from www.metalworks.com/NickelS&W.htm. It's about $9

financial interest, bla...bla...bla....

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Robert Holder schrieb:

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have some plans

dimensions of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Wed Nov 22 10:01:33 2000

eAMG1WG05235

fwd04.sul.t-online.com

Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:11:42 +0100

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Hi Richard,

well, I think NS wire is stromg enough for snake guides (Though I stillhave to
test it in the field). The NS wire I got 
from Metalworks wasactually not on a spool, it was wound up in a big "circle",
just like arope, so the wire comes out straight enough.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Richard Nantel schrieb:

Ralf, I visited the metalworks site you mentioned and I see the wire
comescoiled on a spool. Doesn't that cause problems in making snake guides?
I'vealways used straight lengths of wire. Also, is nickle silver strong enough

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 9:27 AM

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Hi Robert,

check out www.goldenwitch.com, Russ sells the LeClair Snake Maker. Itforms
snake guides sizes 1/0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. I'm using it and it worksgreat. He also
sells music wire to make the snakes from. I gotNickelSilver wire 
from www.metalworks.com/NickelS&W.htm. It's about$9

financial interest, bla...bla...bla....

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Robert Holder schrieb:

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have some plans

dimensions of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 22 10:09:33 2000

eAMG9WG05595

"Liste" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

I'd think guides would need tempered stainless wire, to resist abrasion well!
This is used in making spinner blade lures, and is readily available fromsuch
lure making suppliers. Titanium wire is also available, and tho' moreexpensive,
should serve very well too.

GMA

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 22 10:17:04 2000

eAMGH2G05892

VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

"'Liste'" Subject: RE: Snake Guides

What grade stainless steel do you use? I've heard that there's a
softstainless and a hard stainless.

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:16 AM

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

I'd think guides would need tempered stainless wire, toresist abrasion well!
This is used in making spinner blade lures, and is readilyavailable fromsuch
lure making suppliers. Titanium wire is also available,and tho' moreexpensive,
should serve very well too.

GMA

from jczimny@dol.net Wed Nov 22 10:30:23 2000

eAMGUNG06345

Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

May I ask 
from which alloy is the wire made. The alloy used would be critical inthis
application.JohnZ

Ralf Ladda wrote:

Hi Richard,

well, I think NS wire is stromg enough for snake guides (Though I stillhave to
test it in the field). The NS wire I got 
from Metalworks wasactually not on a spool, it was wound up in a big "circle",
just like arope, so the wire comes out straight enough.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Richard Nantel schrieb:

Ralf, I visited the metalworks site you mentioned and I see the
wirecomescoiled on a spool. Doesn't that cause problems in making snake
guides?I'vealways used straight lengths of wire. Also, is nickle silver strong
enough

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 9:27 AM

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Hi Robert,

check out www.goldenwitch.com, Russ sells the LeClair Snake Maker. Itforms
snake guides sizes 1/0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. I'm using it and it worksgreat. He also
sells music wire to make the snakes from. I gotNickelSilver wire 
from www.metalworks.com/NickelS&W.htm. It's about$9

financial interest, bla...bla...bla....

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Robert Holder schrieb:

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have some plans

dimensions of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Wed Nov 22 10:45:41 2000

eAMGjeG06937

fwd04.sul.t-online.com

+0100

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Dear J.C.,

it consists of 65 % Copper, 18 % Nickel and 17 % Zinc.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

"J. C. Zimny" schrieb:

May I ask 
from which alloy is the wire made. The alloy used would becritical inthis
application.JohnZ

Ralf Ladda wrote:

Hi Richard,

well, I think NS wire is stromg enough for snake guides (Though I stillhave to
test it in the field). The NS wire I got 
from Metalworks wasactually not on a spool, it was wound up in a big "circle",
just like arope, so the wire comes out straight enough.

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Richard Nantel schrieb:

Ralf, I visited the metalworks site you mentioned and I see the
wirecomescoiled on a spool. Doesn't that cause problems in making
snakeguides? I'vealways used straight lengths of wire. Also, is nickle silver
strongenough

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

LaddaSent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 9:27 AM

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Hi Robert,

check out www.goldenwitch.com, Russ sells the LeClair SnakeMaker. Itforms
snake guides sizes 1/0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. I'm using it and itworksgreat. He also
sells music wire to make the snakes from. I gotNickelSilver wire 
from www.metalworks.com/NickelS&W.htm. It'sabout $9

financial interest, bla...bla...bla....

Regards

Ralf 
from Germany

Robert Holder schrieb:

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have someplans

dimensions of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Wed Nov 22 11:34:28 2000

eAMHYRG08568

0500

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C05481.7CA55BE0

------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C05481.7CA55BE0

I am just curious as to way would anyone use N/S wire for snakes?

Upstream Always,

Tim DoughtyRodmaker>
from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 22 11:45:44 2000

eAMHjhG09174

, "Liste" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available 
from Small Parts Inc. (www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire I ordered
came in a package that identified it as marine fishing leader material.  It
worked well and will blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainless wire, to resist abrasion well! This is used in making
spinner blade lures, and is readily available fromsuch lure making suppliers.
Titanium wire is also available, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very
well too.

GMA

from briansr@point-net.com Wed Nov 22 11:45:55 2000

eAMHjpG09181

Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:43:29 -0500

, "Liste" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Titanium Wire?You're NOT going to be able to work this stuff !!!Cheers Brian--
--- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

I'd think guides would need tempered stainless wire, to resist abrasionwell!
This is used in making spinner blade lures, and is readily availablefromsuch
lure making suppliers. Titanium wire is also available, and tho' moreexpensive,
should serve very well too.

GMA

from iank@ts.co.nz Wed Nov 22 12:23:41 2000

eAMINdG10628

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C0551D.60D72960

There was a discussion on wire to use some time ago. This discussion =arose 
from of my concern regarding a comment made by the production =foreman
of a large rodmaker here in NZ. The comment was along the lines =that they
used to use piano wire many years ago but that they found that =heavily
fished rods in the Rotorua and Taupo areas wore through these in =a couple
of years because of the large amount of volcanic ash in the =water systems.
They therefore only use stainless or very abrasive =

What I do now is stick with my hand made ( with a snakemaker 
from Dave)  =piano wire guides for most rods # 6 and under because I like
the ability =to blacken them , and their relative lightness . If the rod is likely
to =be used in the Taupo area or for some saltwater fishing I use Stainless
=guides . As these are mainly # 8 and above I have only done that once ( =

I guess that if I could obtain snakes in the right size and at a =reasonable
prices locally I would just buy them in rather then make my =own. As there is
no local source , and purchases 
from overseas make me =acutely aware of the relative weakness of the NZ
dollar ( also known as =the pacific peso) , I enjoy making guides , but doubt I
would bother if =

Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 2:17 AMSubject: Snake Guides

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have some plans =

of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C0551D.60D72960

There was a discussion on wire to use =

the production foreman of a large rodmaker here in NZ. The comment was =

lines that they used to use piano wire many years ago but that they =

heavily fished rods in the Rotorua and Taupo areas wore through these in =

couple of years because of the large amount of volcanic ash in the water =

systems. They therefore only use stainless or very abrasive resistant =

guides. 

What I do now is stick with my hand =

snakemaker 
from Dave)  piano wire guides for most rods # 6 and under =

like the ability to blacken them , and their relative lightness . If the =

Stainless guides . As these are mainly # 8 and above I have only done =

( for a friend in Australia for saltwater fishing) and the piano wire is =

most guides and relatively easy to obtain down here. 

I guess that if I could obtain snakes =

size and at a reasonable prices locally I would just buy them in rather =

make my own. As there is no local source , and purchases 
from =

the pacific peso) , I enjoy making guides , but doubt I would bother if =

located in the USA . ( sorry Russ). 

Ian 

---- Original Message ----- 

Robert Holder =

Sent: Thursday, November 23, =

AMSubject: Snake Guides

Helloall,

This is a shot in the =

H.

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C0551D.60D72960--

from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Nov 22 12:45:03 2000

eAMIj2G11294

Subject: Non-rodmaking--help needed

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0548A.A03F58E0

Guys,I was wondering if anyone has an extra copy of the manual for AutoCad
=2000 ( lost mine) that I could borrow, or if anyone knows where I can =get
one?  Btw- do they make an "AutoCad 2000 for dummies"?

Thanks for any help,Mike (aka Doc)

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0548A.A03F58E0

Guys,I was wondering if anyone has an extra=

manual for AutoCad 2000 ( lost mine) that I could borrow, or if anyone =

dummies"?

Thanks for any help,Mike (aka =Doc)

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0548A.A03F58E0--

from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 22 13:01:12 2000

eAMJ1BG11816

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)

, "Liste" Subject: Re: Snake Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brand came out, and they just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In any case, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in the aircraft and many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don't know what alloy it is, butit
is very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicely when you heat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----

; richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available 
from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire I ordered
came in a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leader material.  It
worked well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainless wire, to resist abrasionwell! This is used in making
spinner blade lures, and is readily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers.
Titanium wire is also available, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very
well too.

GMA

from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 22 13:52:41 2000

eAMJqeG13093

Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen

I think that it is great for all kinds of used (scraping enamel, hitting nodes,
etc...), but I think a sharp plane works better on final planing for me. It is
worth the price for being a good tool, but if you don't already have several
Record 9 1/2 planes and Hock blades, I would get those first. (Or look at the
LN Rodmaker's plane with grooved sole. That's neat too!)Best regards,Bob
Maulucci

At 09:23 AM 11/22/00 -0600, you wrote:I am trying to make up a
Christmas list and one of the items that I havebeen thinking about is the L-N
212 scraper plane.

The questions are:How much easier is the L-N 212 to use for final planning
than a handscraper.Is it worth the investment because it is very pricey?

Tom

from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Nov 22 14:24:46 2000

eAMKOaG13923

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de,
richard.nantel@videotron.ca,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

In a message dated 11/22/0 7:02:40 PM, caneman@clnk.com writes:

I would advise against this practice. Most of the stainless wire around is 300
series hard drawn. If you heat it enough to turn blue, you have probably lost
the hardness, and maybe caused a condition known as embrittlement,which
affects the corrosion resistance. What you can do if you want to color
stainless of this type is heat the stuff to 600* F. or thereabouts, and it will
slowly brown without any nasty side effects. The embrittlement startsat
about 900*. My guess is that if you ran the guides through a self cleaning
cycle on a home oven you will get this effect.300 series stainless reacts the
opposite of high carbon steel, If you heat it red hot and then quench it, or let
it air cool, you have annealed it, not hardened it.

from bconner@mediaone.net Wed Nov 22 15:58:17 2000

eAMLwGG16274

Subject: RE: Dressing Ferrule stations

You can rig something up with a router to do ferrule stations. Basicallywhat
you want to do is make a small version of the router based dowelmaking tool.
I suppose you would want to make some sort of cone center

rod so you could rotate it.  A tube in a Vee-Block would work as long asthe
rod was well centered.  Let me see if I can find a URL withsomething like this
so you can visualize it. It's pretty simple.

Bruce Conner

from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 22 16:20:46 2000

eAMMKkG16803

Subject: Re: 1975 NY Angler's Club bombing

Frank,As I recall it was a terrorist act promulgated by the FALN, the"free-
Puerto-Rico" bunch. Did a lot of damage and got them beaucoup depublic
relations...and not much else! A precursor to the World Trade Centerdisaster
"and other greatest hits".Someone else will have to "fill the bottom in".Art

At 08:19 AM 11/22/2000 -0600, Frank Stetzer wrote:I was reading Ernest
Schweibert's piece on cane rods last night,and he mentions a 1975 bombing
which destroyed and damaged manyhistorically significant cane rods at (I
assume) the New York Anglers Club.  Does anyone know of the story behind
this?......................................................................Frank Stetzer                        
"...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                       than a
waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer." 
Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's Luck",
1899.

from 4hammock@bellsouth.net Wed Nov 22 16:45:38 2000

eAMMjbG17531

Subject: building steel forms

Can someone please help. I've just started building my planing formsusing the
Tom Penrose plans. I'm sure I've failed to get the holesperpendicular because
most of the shoulder bolts rub the hole andrequire a tool to move.Will
reaming the hole fix this or should I start over?Thanks

from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Nov 22 17:11:51 2000

eAMNBoG18191

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen

TOM PETERS wrote:

I am trying to make up a Christmas list and one of the items that I havebeen
thinking about is the L-N 212 scraper plane.

The questions are:How much easier is the L-N 212 to use for final planning
than a handscraper.Is it worth the investment because it is very pricey?

TomHi Tom, Even though many makers use the 212 for final planing , I use
itjust for enamel removal 
from the strip prior to final planing and duringfinal planing only if I lift a node.
If you are skilled enough with acabinet scraper you can do just as good of job.
Marty

from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 22 17:19:35 2000

eAMNJZG18394

Subject: Re: 1975 NY Angler's Club bombing

I bet it was a buncha' chummin' bait chunkin' bank monkeys.
(baitfisherpersons who chum, and fish 
from the bank)

M-D

----- Original Message -----

Subject: 1975 NY Angler's Club bombing

I was reading Ernest Schweibert's piece on cane rods last night,and he
mentions a 1975 bombing which destroyed and damaged manyhistorically
significant cane rods at (I assume) the New YorkAnglers Club.  Does anyone
know of the story behind
this?......................................................................Frank Stetzer                        
"...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                       than a
waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer." 
Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's Luck",
1899.

from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Nov 22 17:22:45 2000

eAMNMiG18548

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: building steel forms

Roger Hammock wrote:

Can someone please help. I've just started building my planing formsusing the
Tom Penrose plans. I'm sure I've failed to get the holesperpendicular because
most of the shoulder bolts rub the hole andrequire a tool to move.Will
reaming the hole fix this or should I start over?ThanksHi Roger, Although it's
worth a try reaming slightly I would probably start over. I had very good luck
when I made mine of brass bars a numberof years ago. Are you using a
quality doweling jig and sharp bits? Alsocutting oil is helpfull .Good luck,Marty

from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Wed Nov 22 18:01:16 2000

eAN01FG19115

Subject: Re: Dressing ferrule stations

Ralph,Funny that you mention it, I found his pictures today and will be building
aFranken Lathe. However, I'm doing some refinish work and if the
sectionsaren'ttotally straight its going to be a bear to turn a round station,
that's what gotme thinking it might be better to design something that
turned itself insteadofspinning the blank. Just an idea.

Thanks,Bill Walters

Ralph MacKenzie wrote:

Just a thought, but a while back I think it was Shawn Pineo that
hadpicturesof a dealy he called "FrankenLathe" or something like that which
wasinexpensive and didn't look too bad to build.  I'd guess a quick run
throughthe archives with a search for that name would get you the URL with
thepicture, but I don't know if the pics would still be there.  Might be worth
alook.

mac

Dennis Haftel wrote:

Hi Bill,

Nice to hear 
from you.  [I'm the guy that made that flamed Holbrook thatthe "Bait
Fisherman" and you fished at the Catskills Gathering inSept.]  I have turned
grips on my drill with satisfactory results, but Idon't think they're
concentrically stable enough to turn ferrules.Having said that, I turn my
stations by hand too.  That isn't exactlyperfect either, but I think it's slow
enough that things don't get "outof control" so fast that you can't do
something about it.

I'm basically in the same boat as you.  No lathe (no room either) andmaking
the best of it.

If you find a better way, I'm always all ears...

Good luck, and happy Thanksgiving!

Dennis

Bill Walters wrote:

I was hand doing a ferrule station the other day when it occurred to methat
maybe an alternative to using a lathe to spin the rod maybe a jigcould be
designed with spring loaded "petals" in the end of tube thatwould be powered
by a mounted drill to taper the ferrule station. Therod mounted, and
supported so that the ferrule station would bisecttheexact center of this
tool. Has anyone tried this or have any ideas abouthow to accomplish this?

from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Wed Nov 22 18:13:30 2000

eAN0DTG19337

Subject: Re: Dressing ferrule stations

I was thinking a set screw behind the cutting area that could limit the
amountthe cutter could close.

Bill

nobler wrote:

depth of cut, so that you only got a certain dimension, but not any more !

GMA

from wlwalter@bellatlantic.net Wed Nov 22 18:18:12 2000

eAN0IBG19528

Subject: Re: Dressing ferrule stations

Nope, but I applaud your thinking. Problem I would see with that is thatit
would give too much taper and not be real adjustable.

Thanks,Bill

BarbRain@aol.com wrote:

Are you describing a pencil sharpener?  Tried that, it didn't work.

from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Nov 22 20:29:00 2000

eAN2SxG21142

Subject: RE: Dressing Ferrule stations

At 04:58 PM 11/22/00 -0500, Bruce Conner wrote:You can rig something up
with a router to do ferrule stations. Basicallywhat you want to do is make a
small version of the router based dowelmaking tool. I suppose you would want
to make some sort of cone center

rod so you could rotate it.  A tube in a Vee-Block would work as long asthe
rod was well centered.  Let me see if I can find a URL withsomething like this
so you can visualize it. It's pretty simple.

Bruce Conner

A very similar approach to making round tenons appeared in this
month'sedition of Shop Notes. The stock was square and was slipped into a
piece ofPVC pipe. A dado blade in a table saw was used to remove stock. the
depthof cut was adjusted to remove just a bit of material and the stock
wasrotated until rounded. Successive passes were made with a higher and
higherblade setting until the final depth of cut was achieved. I am not
certainthat a circular saw dado blade would be appropriate for bamboo, but
Iexpect that you could achieve the same result using a straight routerblade. 
You could mount the holding tube against the fence on a routertable. You
could set the depth of cut with the fence and advance the stockwhile
rotating it. I think taper of the rod could be compensated for bywrapping
masking tape around it at two points so that when the rod isinserted into the
tube it would be parallel to the axis of the tube (likethe plastic rod guys do
for fitting reel seat inserts). I expect that theradius of the blade might help
by forming a smooth transitional area forthe ferrule tabs.

I think I will try this with some waste blanks.

-Doug

Doug EastonTonawanda, NY

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 22 20:35:05 2000

eAN2Z4G21315

18:35:02 PST

Subject: Re: 1975 NY Angler's Club bombing

they don't see us as any competition. they think we'refunny(weird not ha-ha)
:-)  timothy

--- Jojo DeLancier  wrote:I bet it was a buncha' chummin' bait chunkin'
bankmonkeys. (baitfisherpersons who chum, and fish 
from the bank)

M-D

----- Original Message -----From: "Frank Stetzer" 

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 8:19 AMSubject: 1975 NY Angler's
Club bombing

I was reading Ernest Schweibert's piece on canerods last night,and he
mentions a 1975 bombing which destroyed anddamaged manyhistorically
significant cane rods at (I assume)the New YorkAnglers Club.  Does anyone
know of the storybehind this?

......................................................................Frank Stetzer                        
"...acheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                       than
awaterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for    foot-warmer." 
Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman'sLuck",
1899.

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from briansr@point-net.com Wed Nov 22 22:24:03 2000

eAN4O2G22704

0500

Subject: Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving to the USA rodmakers.I understand that this year you'll
be counting your blessings right up toChristmasCheers Brian

from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 23 00:03:18 2000

eAN63HG23811

Subject: Lap Sizes

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C054E0.6AED06A0

Here is a size chart of available male laps, for lapping ferrules inside =the
rod section end, and the corresponding ferrules they fit. It may, or =may
not, be necessary to go to the next larger size in order to lap =inside the
female ferrule section end. If I should be in error on any, =please correct.

Nominal Lap size            Decimal Equivalent    +15%                =Ferrule Size

1/8"                                                  0.125 -- 0.143  =8 & 9

5/32"                                                  0.156 -- 0.180   =10 & 11

3/16"                                                  0.187 -- 0.215   =

7/32"                                                  0.219 -- 0.252   =14 & 15

1/4"                                                  0.250 -- 0.288  =16 & 17

9/32"                                                  0.281 -- 0.323   =18 & 19

5/16"                                                  0.312 -- 0.359   =20 & 21 & 22

11/32"                                                 0.344 -- 0.396    =23 & 24 & 25

3/8"                                                  0.375 -- 0.431

------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C054E0.6AED06A0

Here isa =

available male laps, for lapping ferrules inside the rod section end, =

corresponding ferrules they fit. It may, or may not, be necessary to go =

next larger size in order to lap inside the female ferrule section end. =

should be in error on any, please correct.>Fromrichard.nantel@videotron.ca
Thu Nov 23 07:45:26 2000

eANDjPG26549

VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

, ,"'Liste'" Subject: RE: Snake Guides

I noticed that Snake Brand guides are made of tungsten. Correct me if
I'mwrong but tungsten is quite heavy. Would the additional weight of
theseguides over steel or stainless steel affect the action on the tip or is
theweight difference too small?

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:00 PM

richard.nantel@videotron.ca; ListeSubject: Re: Snake Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brand came out, andthey just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In any case, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in the aircraftand many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don't know whatalloy it is, butit is
very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicely when youheat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Onis Cogburn 

; richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000
11:46 AMSubject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available 
from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire I ordered
camein a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leader material. 
Itworked well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainless wire, toresist abrasionwell! This is used in making spinner
blade lures, and isreadily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers. Titanium
wire is alsoavailable, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very well too.

GMA

from channer1@rmi.net Thu Nov 23 08:29:18 2000

eANETHG27359

nobler@satx.rr.com,"'Liste'" Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Richard;The diameter of the wire is quite small, so they probably weigh
lessthan other brands of guides. I sure hope they stay in business for along
time, I don't want to have to go back to using anyone else'sguides.John

Richard Nantel wrote:

I noticed that Snake Brand guides are made of tungsten. Correct me if
I'mwrong but tungsten is quite heavy. Would the additional weight of
theseguides over steel or stainless steel affect the action on the tip or is
theweight difference too small?

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:00 PM

richard.nantel@videotron.ca; ListeSubject: Re: Snake Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brand came out, andthey just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In any case, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in the aircraftand many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don't know whatalloy it is, butit is
very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicely when youheat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Onis Cogburn 

; richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000
11:46 AMSubject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available 
from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire I ordered
camein a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leader material. 
Itworked well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainless wire, toresist abrasionwell! This is used in making spinner
blade lures, and isreadily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers. Titanium
wire is alsoavailable, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very well too.

GMA

from jczimny@dol.net Thu Nov 23 09:17:39 2000

eANFHcG27952

Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company

k5vkq@ix.netcom.com, nobler@satx.rr.com,"'Liste'" Subject: Re: Snake
Guides

I just received an order of Snake Brand Guides. They are the best I've
everseen.They resemble some of the guides I've observed on classic rods 
from the30's.JohnZ

from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Nov 23 11:00:01 2000

eANH00G28889

hme0.telusplanet.net

Subject: Snake Guide Material Specifications

Guys,

All this talk about building your own guides of this and that or
purchasingguides 
from this guy or that made we wonder how we could compare thewearability
of the various guide metal materials. I wouldn't want to havesnake guides
made 
from materials where I had to replace them every year.Anyone know of a
web site that shows the specifications of various metals.

I do know that chrome is hard and wears well whereas ni-silver is verysoft.
Suspect that chrome guides might last several thousand times longerthan ni-
silver guides. But the proof, of course, is somewhere out there.

Help!!!

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Nov 23 11:23:16 2000

eANHNFG29299

Subject: Re: Catch and release

Terry,Sorry for the late reply, I was in Korea on business until
yesterday.Thanks for your comments. They clarified some areas of
fisheriesmanagment forme.Best
regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/

Terry Finger wrote:

To Reed and the list,

Hi Reed,Sorry to be slow to respond to your insightful questions; I didn'thave
access to my email over the weekend.  I'm sure others may havediffereent
opinions than mine, but for what it's worth, here are somethoughts with
regard to your questions:

Do you think that other factors to consider are the holdover rateof the fish
and whether they will propagate. Obviously, in thosestreams where brook
trout are stocked that cannot support ayear-round population (due to
summer water temps), C&R is a crueljoke. But then, perhaps the initial
stocking is the joke.

Yes, the amount of suitable spawning habitat is a major factor in
anymanagement decision.  If there is no or very little naturalreproduction (a
"put-and-grow") fishery, protecting fish in certainsize ranges only serves the
purpose of providing desired sizes offish for anglers to catch.  Where
significant natural reproduction ispossible, protecting fish in certain size
ranges serves theadded purpose of ensuring some fish reach spawning
size/age.

One of the positive developments in fishery management in the last 20years
has been an increasing realization that all fisheries shouldnot be managed the
same way.  We should provide a variety ofexperiences for anglers of
different types (C&R here, put-and-takethere, etc.), and base the decision of
what we do where on theavailable habitat.  It is a tremendous waste to have
a put-and-takefishery in an area with great spawning habitat, but that kind
of afishery (or a put-and-grow fishery) may be a good use of an area withno
potential for natural reproduction.

The type of fishery you mention above, where fish are stocked wherethey
cannot survive the year, is obviously the ultimate put-and-takesituation, with
no opportunity for fish to hold over and grow.  Insome of these and other
put-and-take situations I have recently seenC&R suggested as part of what
is beginning to be called a "delayedharvest" fishery.  The idea is that the
stocked fish are "recycled"among anglers through C&R for the first part of
the year, then theC&R regs are removed to allow harvest before the fish die
anyway.This and other put-and-take fisheries aren't the kind that appeal
tome personally, but delayed harvest does make more efficient use
ofhatchery fish and there are anglers that enjoy this kind of fishing.I do think
it is inappropriate for areas with good spawning habitat.

Does it matter what the slot limits are if the fish will notreproduce in that
environment?

The basic idea of slot-length limits is to provide, while stillprotecting larger
fish, a way to thin out small fish and thus preventovercrowding and slow
growth.  Without natural reproduction, I see noreason for a slot length limit.

Sometimes removing a large trout (read "predator") can improve thegeneral
fishery, can't it?

There are important predator/prey relationships infisheries; the most
common is the classic bass/bluegill pondscenario.  Certainly different
harvest regs on bass, which are highlypiscivorous at all ages, have a
pronounced effect on the fishpopulations of these ponds (this is a
complicated story in itself,and too long for here).  Until they get very large,
however, troutaren't nearly as piscivorous as bass.  Because there are so
very fewtrout of such size present in nearly all fisheries, I doubt
thatremoving one large trout would have much effect on the other
fish(There probably are some small, isolated spring creek or pondfisheries
that are exceptions).

Wouldn't it decrease the stress on the fish if a "Catch Limit" wasset on each
waterbody, that is, each fish brought to hand, whether killedor released,
went towards a daily limit for that person on that stream? Ithink that some
might slow down and enjoy their day more if they didn'tfeel a need to
compete on fish caught, striving ever for the "100 fishday".

Absolutely.  The problem here, of course, as Bob Maulucci mentioned,is
enforcement.  Without watching each angler, a conservation agentwould have
no way to tell how many fish had been brought to hand.No agency is
therefore going to put this kind of reg on the books.

I guess this kind of idea is best promoted voluntarily, just as wenow have a
lot of voluntarily  C&R.  To get over thiscompetition thing, lately I have tried
telling relatively newflyfishers that to really understand what it is all
aboutyou must go fishing alone, catch a truly memorable fish, and then
nottell anyone about it.  It may help them focus on the experience,rather
than on a comparison to what others are doing.

Thanks for your comments; hope this makes sense.

Regards,Terry

Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us

from briansr@point-net.com Thu Nov 23 11:41:18 2000

eANHfHG29839

Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:41:13 -0500

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0554A.725221E0

Hi allA really good looking  snake guide are the Titanium titrate(nitride)
=guides 
from Pacbay.They look really good and are nice and "slippery' for =shooting
lines.the striping guides and tiptpops add to a nice look.Only =problem is the
tips only run up to ,,I believe, size 7Cheers Brian

Sent: November 22, 2000 8:17 AMSubject: Snake Guides

Hello all,

This is a shot in the dark.  Does anyone on the list have some plans =

of them as well. Thanks for your help.

Robert H.

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0554A.725221E0

Hi all

=

titrate(nitride) guides 
from Pacbay.They look really good and are nice =

7Cheers Brian

----- Original Message ----- 

Robert Holder =

Sent: November 22, 2000 8:17 =AMSubject: Snake Guides

Helloall,

This is a shot in the =

H.

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0554A.725221E0--

from rfairfield@bendcable.com Thu Nov 23 13:04:24 2000

eANJ4NG00830

Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:54:05 -0800

Subject: Re: Snake Guide Material Specifications

Don, I think that the harder the metal, the longer it will last.  Metalurgyfolks
use the Rockwell hardness method.  Please see the following web site

http://www.mee-inc.com/rockhar.html

I couldn't find a URL that had hardness numbers for a lot of
differentmaterials.  If you type in 'material hardness data' into your
favoritesearch engine, you will be  rewarded with a lot of places to look.

Enjoy,RogerAt 10:11 AM 11/23/00 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen
wrote:Guys,

All this talk about building your own guides of this and that or
purchasingguides 
from this guy or that made we wonder how we could compare thewearability
of the various guide metal materials. I wouldn't want to havesnake guides
made 
from materials where I had to replace them every year.Anyone know of a
web site that shows the specifications of various metals.

I do know that chrome is hard and wears well whereas ni-silver is verysoft.
Suspect that chrome guides might last several thousand times longerthan ni-
silver guides. But the proof, of course, is somewhere out there.

Help!!!

Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from grau@buchlang.com Thu Nov 23 13:32:11 2000

eANJW1G01303

+0100

Subject: Cheap Dial Caliper

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01D4_01C05589.6D113A60

Friends

Where i can get an cheap Dial caliper for inch measuring. Most i do it =in
millimeters, but for some tapers i need one in inch.

Any online-source available?

Regards

Stefan/Switzerland

------=_NextPart_000_01D4_01C05589.6D113A60

Friends

Where i can get an cheap Dial caliper for inch =

i do it in millimeters, but for some tapers i need one in =inch.

Any online-source available?

Regards

Stefan/Switzerland

------=_NextPart_000_01D4_01C05589.6D113A60--

from Troutgetter@aol.com Thu Nov 23 13:55:22 2000

eANJtMG01651

Subject: Re: Cheap Dial Caliper

Stefan,My old Mitutoyo digimatic is a digital caliper that converts inches into
millimeters at the touch of a button. Bought mine in a pawn shop for about
$50.00. New I think is around $150.00Mike Shay

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 23 14:11:51 2000

eANKBoG01995

12:11:51 PST

Subject: RE: Snake Guides

richard, i don't know if tungsten is heavy or lite butsnakebrand guides weigh
almost nithing.  timothy

--- Richard Nantel wrote:I noticed that Snake Brand guides are made
oftungsten. Correct me if I'mwrong but tungsten is quite heavy. Would
theadditional weight of theseguides over steel or stainless steel affect
theaction on the tip or is theweight difference too small?

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:00 PM

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; ListeSubject: Re: Snake
Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brandcame out, andthey just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In anycase, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in theaircraftand many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don'tknow whatalloy it is, butit is
very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicelywhen youheat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Onis Cogburn 

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste

Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:46 AMSubject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available

from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire Iordered
camein a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leadermaterial.  Itworked
well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainlesswire, toresist abrasionwell! This is used in making spinner
blade lures,and isreadily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers. Titanium
wire isalsoavailable, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very well too.

GMA

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 23 14:18:01 2000

eANKI0G02256

12:18:02 PST

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

mike, i think the basic human flaw is the lack of athird hand. if i had a third
hand i would haveconquered the world or been a better juggler. iwouldn;t have
to chose between my 2 favorite rodseither.  timothy

--- Troutgetter@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/23/2000 12:45:18
PM PDT,Troutgetter writes:

Date:  11/23/2000 12:45:18 PM PDTFrom:  Troutgetter

Ian and Timothy,It seems that somewhere along the line I have seena small
device or plans 

problem I was having was growing a third arm (complete with fully
functionalhand and fingers). This device seemed to easily compensate for my
digitallychallenged human form. The gadget was basically a "C" clamp with a
punchthat was inserted through the top of the "C". The bottom of the "C"
was a flatanvil that the punch would strike.  One foot would be held or
visedoutside the clamp with the foot to be flattened inserted into the open
end ofthe "C" and the punch would rest on the foot to be flattened and
struckwith a hammer. Release the clamped foot and insert, turn it around
and smack itwith the punch. Then grind the feet to suit you.I never did build
one of these. I'm still not surehow you keep 
from smacking your fingers with a hammer Ian!Mike >>

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Nov 23 14:35:13 2000

eANKZCG02517

Subject: Turkey Day

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C05562.F7A956C0

I just wanted to wish all the rodmakers a very happy Thanksgiving Day!!

Mike

------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C05562.F7A956C0

I just wanted to wish all the rodmakers=

happy Thanksgiving Day!!

Mike

------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C05562.F7A956C0--

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 23 14:42:46 2000

eANKgjG02695

with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:45:06 -0800

Subject: Re: Cheap Dial Caliper

eANKgjG02696

Stefan,

If you can order through Harbor Freight tools then they have
inexpensiveChinese dial calipers. I assume they have a website, but don't
know theaddress unless it's www.harborfreight.com

Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu

11/23 11:36a >>>Friends

Where i can get an cheap Dial caliper for inch measuring. Most i do it
inmillimeters, but for some tapers i need one in inch.

Any online-source available?

Regards

Stefan/Switzerland

from rp43640@online-club.de Thu Nov 23 17:08:08 2000

eANN87G04492

+0100 (MET)

Subject: rod taper

Dear listmembers,

is there someone out there who might share any of the listed PaynetapersI
am looking for:9596197208209

thank youChristian

from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 23 17:25:57 2000

eANNPuG04798

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

Hey, I don't think I got all the blessings I deserved, and it wasn't at allclear
how it was that I was to achieve these blessings. I want a recount.Happy
Thanksgiving, nonetheless.

M-D

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving to the USA rodmakers.I understand that this year you'll
be counting your blessings right up toChristmasCheers Brian

from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Nov 23 18:52:11 2000

eAO0qAG05643

Subject: Tim Zietak's website

Does anyone have the url for Tim's site?  Thanks.

--Rich

from dnorl@uswest.net Thu Nov 23 19:01:38 2000

eAO11bG05915

0000

(63.228.7.93)

Subject: Wayne's Glue

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C05581.E6A09680

Does Wayne Cattanach still advocate using Nyatex in his new book?Dave

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C05581.E6A09680

Does Wayne Cattanach stilladvocate =

in his new book?Dave

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C05581.E6A09680--

from wiljette@nmia.com Thu Nov 23 22:55:07 2000

eAO4t6G07767

(Smail-3.2.0.109 1999-Oct-27 #6 built 2000-Oct-18)

Subject: Re: Wayne's Glue

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C05598.411C0840

David: The answer is yes!

Will

Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 6:16 PMSubject: Wayne's Glue

Does Wayne Cattanach still advocate using Nyatex in his new book?Dave

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C05598.411C0840

David: The answer isyes!

Will

----- Original Message ----- 

David =

Sent: Thursday, November 23, =

PMSubject: Wayne's Glue

Does Wayne Cattanach still =

Nyatex in his new book?Dave

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C05598.411C0840--

from timklein@uswest.net Fri Nov 24 01:01:08 2000

eAO717G09071

Subject: Re: Lap Sizes

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C055A9.7D1C1400

I thought this was a post making fun of my weight.

---Tim

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C055A9.7D1C1400

weight.

---Tim

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C055A9.7D1C1400--

from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 24 04:11:41 2000

eAOABcG10266

eAOAA2x56036;

Subject: Re: Lap Sizes

Organization: vet

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0565A.46180AC0

Tim

Yes, it was!

Peter

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 6:00 PMSubject: Re: Lap Sizes

I thought this was a post making fun of my weight.

---Tim

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0565A.46180AC0

Tim

Yes, it was!

Peter

----- Original Message ----- 

Tim=

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000=

PMSubject: Re: Lap Sizes

weight.

---Tim

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0565A.46180AC0--

from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 24 04:30:41 2000

eAOAUdG10642

eAOASSx56949;

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

Organization: vet

M-D

To be serious for just a minute here; we all, around the world, take kind
ofvicarious pleasure in putting shit on you Yanks!  It's sort of fun!

But the whole free world owes you a debt that cannot be measured by
anymeasurement system yet devised. My daughter is kept safe in Timor
byBlackhawk helicopters; my son, on HMAS Jervis Bay, has been sheltered
byUSSMobile Bay, Belah Wood, and other ships or the US Navy.

Your beer is awful, but nobody's perfect.

So, at Thanksgiving - THANKS, YANKS!

Peter----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

Hey, I don't think I got all the blessings I deserved, and it wasn't atallclear
how it was that I was to achieve these blessings. I want a recount.Happy
Thanksgiving, nonetheless.

M-D

----- Original Message -----From: "brian sturrock" 

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:22 PMSubject: Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving to the USA rodmakers.I understand that this year you'll
be counting your blessings right uptoChristmasCheers Brian

from freaner@home.com Fri Nov 24 09:34:14 2000

eAOFYEG13369

0800

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

At 9:23 PM +1100 , 11/24/00, petermckean wrote about Re:
HappyThanksgiving

But the whole free world owes you a debt that cannot be measured by
anymeasurement system yet devised. My daughter is kept safe in Timor
byBlackhawk helicopters; my son, on HMAS Jervis Bay, has been sheltered
byUSSMobile Bay, Belah Wood, and other ships or the US Navy.

Your beer is awful, but nobody's perfect.

So, at Thanksgiving - THANKS, YANKS!

from a former US Navy officer: You're welcome.  As to the beer, you
obviously haven't tried some of the microbrews (big hearty brews, small
breweries) that are all over the US now.  If Budwater, Coarse, and Miller Low-
life stopped spending the many $100 Millions per year on advertising, and
started spending it on additional hops and malt, word-of-mouth advertising
alone would be enough to increase sales dramatically.

And, since this is a rodmaker's list, I'll ask a question that has been bothering
me for some time:  Why do most of you seem to prefer blued or browned
guides and ferrules on cane rods?  Is it primarily aesthetics, to prevent sun-
flash, to prevent corrosion, or ????

Claude

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 24 10:00:23 2000

eAOG0LG13679

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

I'll second Peter on that except to add I rather liked some of the beers Icame
across.Any society that can protect a group of people well enough to be able
tosomehow make it to voting age and still not be capable of punching a
singlehole through a single piece of cardboard without proper supervision
can'tbe too bad. :-)

In all seriousness though, Peter is correct. The world would be a
differentplace if not for the US and it wouldn't be a better one. I rather
likespeaking our own version of English out here and I doubt I'd be speaking
itnow if you guys weren't in the Coral Sea as well as plenty of other
placesnot all that long ago.I have no idea as to what you do at Thanks Giving
though I know the turkeysare all running scared but do it well and have fun.

Tony

At 09:23 PM 11/24/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:M-D

To be serious for just a minute here; we all, around the world, take kind
ofvicarious pleasure in putting shit on you Yanks!  It's sort of fun!

But the whole free world owes you a debt that cannot be measured by
anymeasurement system yet devised. My daughter is kept safe in Timor
byBlackhawk helicopters; my son, on HMAS Jervis Bay, has been sheltered
byUSSMobile Bay, Belah Wood, and other ships or the US Navy.

Your beer is awful, but nobody's perfect.

So, at Thanksgiving - THANKS, YANKS!

Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" 

Cc: "and Collecting" Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 10:23 AMSubject: Re:
Happy Thanksgiving

Hey, I don't think I got all the blessings I deserved, and it wasn't atallclear
how it was that I was to achieve these blessings. I want a recount.Happy
Thanksgiving, nonetheless.

M-D

----- Original Message -----From: "brian sturrock" 

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:22 PMSubject: Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving to the USA rodmakers.I understand that this year you'll
be counting your blessings right uptoChristmasCheers Brian

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that.

Unknown 

/*************************************************************************/

from zimmer@adams.net Fri Nov 24 10:25:25 2000

eAOGPPG14135

0000

Subject: re:Guides and real beer

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05601.21267B60

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can truthfully say that I have =never been
able to attribute any spooking to chrome guides. Possibly, =others have had
a different experience, I dont know about that. I have =always looked on the
question as one of cosmetics and I like chrome =guides, A chrome guide guide
seems more to dissappear  and reflect the =surroundings, like greenery, etc.
And, to me a chrome guide looks =lighter on a rod and not nearly as
obtrusive as a blued or blackened =one.Speaking  of Beer(one of my favorite
subjects) if one avoids the big =industrial brews, there are some fabulous
brews in America. Some of the =micros are as good as any beer in the
world!!! Plus, America has become =something of a hotbed of homebrewers.
You should try my "Better than =Guiness Stout-Stout. It is delicious!!!Randy
Zimmerman, brewer/rodmaker

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05601.21267B60

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can truthfully =

I have never been able to attribute any spooking to chrome guides. =

others have had a different experience, I dont know about that. I have =

looked on the question as one of cosmetics and I like chrome guides, A =

greenery, etc. And, to me a chrome guide looks lighter on a rod and not =

as obtrusive as a blued or blackened one.

industrial brews, there are some fabulous brews in America. Some of the =

are as good as any beer in the world!!! Plus, America has become =

hotbed of homebrewers. You should try my "Better than Guiness =

delicious!!!Randy Zimmerman, brewer/rodmaker

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05601.21267B60--

from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri Nov 24 10:46:33 2000

eAOGkVG14544

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

Ah crap. I knew it was going to come to this - taking a bunch of crap
overthose damn ballots 
from a kangaroo!

;

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

I'll second Peter on that except to add I rather liked some of the beers Icame
across.Any society that can protect a group of people well enough to be able
to>somehow make it to voting age and still not be capable of punching
asinglehole through a single piece of cardboard without proper supervision
can'tbe too bad. :-)

In all seriousness though, Peter is correct. The world would be
adifferentplace if not for the US and it wouldn't be a better one. I rather
likespeaking our own version of English out here and I doubt I'd be
speakingitnow if you guys weren't in the Coral Sea as well as plenty of other
placesnot all that long ago.I have no idea as to what you do at Thanks Giving
though I know theturkeysare all running scared but do it well and have fun.

Tony

At 09:23 PM 11/24/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:M-D

To be serious for just a minute here; we all, around the world, take
kindofvicarious pleasure in putting shit on you Yanks!  It's sort of fun!

But the whole free world owes you a debt that cannot be measured by
anymeasurement system yet devised. My daughter is kept safe in Timor
byBlackhawk helicopters; my son, on HMAS Jervis Bay, has been
shelteredbyUSSMobile Bay, Belah Wood, and other ships or the US Navy.

Your beer is awful, but nobody's perfect.

So, at Thanksgiving - THANKS, YANKS!

Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" 

Cc: "and Collecting" Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 10:23 AMSubject: Re:
Happy Thanksgiving

Hey, I don't think I got all the blessings I deserved, and it wasn't atallclear
how it was that I was to achieve these blessings. I want arecount.Happy
Thanksgiving, nonetheless.

M-D

----- Original Message -----From: "brian sturrock" 

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:22 PMSubject: Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving to the USA rodmakers.I understand that this year you'll
be counting your blessings rightuptoChristmasCheers Brian

/*************************************************************************/AV Young

Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that.

Unknown

/*************************************************************************/

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 24 10:51:16 2000

eAOGpEG14675

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:50:57 +0800

Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving

,, "'RODMAKERS'" 

Well, it was a soft target :-)

Tony

At 09:52 AM 11/24/00 -0700, Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote:Ah crap. I
knew it was going to come to this - taking a bunch of crap overthose damn
ballots 
from a kangaroo!

;> Any society that can protect a group of people well enough to be able
tosomehow make it to voting age and still not be capable of punching
asinglehole through a single piece of cardboard without proper supervision
can'tbe too bad. :-)

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that.

Unknown 

/*************************************************************************/

from jhewittiii@springsips.com Fri Nov 24 10:58:02 2000

eAOGw1G14859

0000

springsips.com) (63.29.89.243)

Subject: Cork/glue

Rodmakers...Just curious what glues are the most popular forgluing cork
rings??

John

from briansr@point-net.com Fri Nov 24 11:02:37 2000

eAOH2aG15011

Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:01:51 -0500

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Hi johnDural AM18 Marine Glue to glue them together ,and epoxy to glue to
blankCheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: Cork/glue

Rodmakers...Just curious what glues are the most popular forgluing cork
rings??

John

from newmin@ptdprolog.net Fri Nov 24 11:10:13 2000

eAOHACG15201

Subject: Fw: re:Guides and real beer

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C05610.2ABBF380

choice of ferrulle and guide color are strictly up to the individual.  =does
chrome scare the fish? who knows. I prefer nickel silver ferrules =and
chrome guides. Blackened hardware on light rods looks to over =powering and
on flamed rods it looks to dull and drab. but thats my =opinion. I don't like red
trucks but alot of people order them.newmin

Subject: re:Guides and real beer

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can truthfully say that I have =never been
able to attribute any spooking to chrome guides. Possibly, =others have had
a different experience, I dont know about that. I have =always looked on the
question as one of cosmetics and I like chrome =guides, A chrome guide guide
seems more to dissappear  and reflect the =surroundings, like greenery, etc.
And, to me a chrome guide looks =lighter on a rod and not nearly as
obtrusive as a blued or blackened =one.Speaking  of Beer(one of my favorite
subjects) if one avoids the big =industrial brews, there are some fabulous
brews in America. Some of the =micros are as good as any beer in the
world!!! Plus, America has become =something of a hotbed of homebrewers.
You should try my "Better than =Guiness Stout-Stout. It is delicious!!!Randy
Zimmerman, brewer/rodmaker

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C05610.2ABBF380

choice of ferrulle and guide color are strictly up =

ferrules and chrome guides. Blackened hardware on light rods looks to =

powering and on flamed rods it looks to dull and drab. but thats my =

don't like red trucks but alot of people order them.newmin

From:Randy =Zimmerman 

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 11:27 AMSubject: re:Guides and real beer

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can truthfully =

I have never been able to attribute any spooking to chrome guides. =

others have had a different experience, I dont know about that. I have =

looked on the question as one of cosmetics and I like chrome guides, A =

greenery, etc. And, to me a chrome guide looks lighter on a rod and not =

as obtrusive as a blued or blackened one.

industrial brews, there are some fabulous brews in America. Some of the =

are as good as any beer in the world!!! Plus, America has become =

hotbed of homebrewers. You should try my "Better than Guiness =

delicious!!!Randy Zimmerman, brewer/rodmaker

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C05610.2ABBF380--

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 24 11:20:37 2000

eAOHKYG15413

Subject: guides

I like blued or bronzed guides and either bronze or blued ferrules becauseI like
them.Falling into the water scares trout, shining a torch (flash lite) on
thewater scares trout. Cruising eagles and lining the fish will scare it aswill
your shadow cast across it but you'd be damned unlucky to scare a fish

from snake or ferrule flash..

Tony

And, since this is a rodmaker's list, I'll ask a question that has been bothering
me for some time:  Why do most of you seem to prefer blued or browned
guides and ferrules on cane rods?  Is it primarily aesthetics, to prevent sun-
flash, to prevent corrosion, or ????

Claude

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that.

Unknown 

/*************************************************************************/

from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 24 12:34:29 2000

eAOIYSG16353

;Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:34:28 +0100

Subject: Sv: guides

eAOIYTG16354

Sorry Tony, but You've missed the most importantfact about styling rods:
Colour of the thread forwinding the snakes etc.

It is a well known fact, at least in these partsof the world (Europe) that the
colour of redis stimulating the fish to bite, which is why a flylike Red Tag is
ever popular.

Therefore You MUST avoid red windings on the rod,since it could make the
fish jump out of the water inorder to bite the rod, not the fly. Thus the
english,years ago, liking the colour of red, standardizedthe colour of garnet
(right?) as the proper colour forwindings on flyfishing rods. To the
uninitiated,it is a colour like red wine (a misnomer, I'd say)

In the US they took a different route, hence allamerican rods are dressed
with some form ofbrown/golden thread.

Ascientific test of this has been performedthrough the years, without the
participantsknowing of it. There has never been reportedan incident of
trout/grayling or likewisefish jumping out of the water in order to attacka
bamboo fishing rod.

Neither has there been any reportings of fishgoing for red winded rods, but
since the universalconspiracy works, and so few rods have beenwinded with
red thread, this is of no scientificvalue whatsoever.

Finally I must conclude that the above mentioned theoryis a fact, based on
the lacking number of reports of flyrodsattacked by trout and/or grayling.

And now I think I'll go back to testing beer.

regards,

Carsten

----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: guides

I like blued or bronzed guides and either bronze or blued ferrules becauseI like
them.Falling into the water scares trout, shining a torch (flash lite) on
thewater scares trout. Cruising eagles and lining the fish will scare it aswill
your shadow cast across it but you'd be damned unlucky to scare a fish

from snake or ferrule flash..

Tony

And, since this is a rodmaker's list, I'll ask a question that has been bothering
me for some time:  Why do most of you seem to prefer blued or browned
guides and ferrules on cane rods?  Is it primarily aesthetics, to prevent sun-
flash, to prevent corrosion, or ????

Claude

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that.

Unknown 

/*************************************************************************/

from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 24 13:06:54 2000

eAOJ6qG16848

Subject: Re: Sv: guides

eAOJ6sG16849

Sounds logical....???I know trout love to swallow celtas and other flashy
bladed spinners. Iknow that because I've seen it, but I've never inhaled.Keep in
touch re. the beer testing though, you can never know enough aboutthat.

Tony

At 07:39 PM 11/24/00 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Sorry Tony, but
You've missed the most importantfact about styling rods: Colour of the
thread forwinding the snakes etc.

It is a well known fact, at least in these partsof the world (Europe) that the
colour of redis stimulating the fish to bite, which is why a flylike Red Tag is
ever popular.

Therefore You MUST avoid red windings on the rod,since it could make the
fish jump out of the water inorder to bite the rod, not the fly. Thus the
english,years ago, liking the colour of red, standardizedthe colour of garnet
(right?) as the proper colour forwindings on flyfishing rods. To the
uninitiated,it is a colour like red wine (a misnomer, I'd say)

In the US they took a different route, hence allamerican rods are dressed
with some form ofbrown/golden thread.

Ascientific test of this has been performedthrough the years, without the
participantsknowing of it. There has never been reportedan incident of
trout/grayling or likewisefish jumping out of the water in order to attacka
bamboo fishing rod.

Neither has there been any reportings of fishgoing for red winded rods, but
since the universalconspiracy works, and so few rods have beenwinded with
red thread, this is of no scientificvalue whatsoever.

Finally I must conclude that the above mentioned theoryis a fact, based on
the lacking number of reports of flyrodsattacked by trout and/or grayling.

And now I think I'll go back to testing beer.

regards,

Carsten

/*************************************************************************/AV Young 

Visit my web site at:   www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html

Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that.

Unknown 

/*************************************************************************/

from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Nov 24 13:09:11 2000

eAOJ9AG16981

Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:09:05 +0000

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Bostik clear for the corks and slow set epoxy to glue to theblank....Paul

brian sturrock wrote:

Hi johnDural AM18 Marine Glue to glue them together ,and epoxy to glue to
blankCheers Brian----- Original Message -----From: "John Hewitt" 

Sent: November 24, 2000 11:55 AMSubject: Cork/glue

Rodmakers...Just curious what glues are the most popular forgluing cork
rings??

John

from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Nov 24 14:24:25 2000

eAOKOPG18298

MAA25782;

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Tim and Richard,Snake Brand guides are now made of drill rod acording to
MikeMcCoyEdtimothy troester wrote:

richard, i don't know if tungsten is heavy or lite butsnakebrand guides weigh
almost nithing.  timothy

--- Richard Nantel wrote:I noticed that Snake Brand guides are made
oftungsten. Correct me if I'mwrong but tungsten is quite heavy. Would
theadditional weight of theseguides over steel or stainless steel affect
theaction on the tip or is theweight difference too small?

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:00 PM

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; ListeSubject: Re: Snake
Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brandcame out, andthey just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In anycase, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in theaircraftand many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don'tknow whatalloy it is, butit is
very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicelywhen youheat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Onis Cogburn 

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste

Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:46 AMSubject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available

from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire Iordered
camein a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leadermaterial.  Itworked
well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainlesswire, toresist abrasionwell! This is used in making spinner
blade lures,and isreadily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers. Titanium
wire isalsoavailable, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very well too.

GMA

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from freaner@home.com Fri Nov 24 14:48:34 2000

eAOKmXG18837

0800

Subject: Re: Sv: guides

eAOKmXG18838

At 7:39 PM +0100 , 11/24/00, Carsten Jorgensen wrote about Sv: guides

Therefore You MUST avoid red windings on the rod,

Thanks, Carsten - I'll make a note of that in my permanent files!

...

And now I think I'll go back to testing beer.

I think I need to go brew up another batch of strong pale ale - perhaps I'll be
able to see these things as clearly as you!

:)

Claude

from zimmer@adams.net Fri Nov 24 15:11:40 2000

eAOLBeG19341

0000

Subject: Claude & Et All:Beer guides

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C05629.1E811DC0

You bring the Pale Ale and I'll bring the Stout, You bring the Pilsner, =and I'll
bring my RED CLAW ESB!!!!How about at one of the rodmakers meetings next
year? =RandyZimmerman,brewmaster

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C05629.1E811DC0

You bring the Pale Ale and I'll bring the Stout, You =

Pilsner, and I'll bring my RED CLAW ESB!!!!How about at one of the rodmakers
meetings next =

RandyZimmerman,brewmaster

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C05629.1E811DC0--

from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 24 15:55:17 2000

eAOLtGG19892

Subject: re:Guides and real beer

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0562E.8D1630E0

Randy,

Please send one gallon of your Better than Guinness Stout-Stout to me, =and
one gallon to Mike Biondo. We will independently evaluate your =product, then
collaborate on a final analysis. This okay with you Mike?Guides? What guides?

M-D

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 10:27 AMSubject: re:Guides and real beer

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can truthfully say that I have =never been
able to attribute any spooking to chrome guides. Possibly, =others have had
a different experience, I dont know about that. I have =always looked on the
question as one of cosmetics and I like chrome =guides, A chrome guide guide
seems more to dissappear  and reflect the =surroundings, like greenery, etc.
And, to me a chrome guide looks =lighter on a rod and not nearly as
obtrusive as a blued or blackened =one.Speaking  of Beer(one of my favorite
subjects) if one avoids the big =industrial brews, there are some fabulous
brews in America. Some of the =micros are as good as any beer in the
world!!! Plus, America has become =something of a hotbed of homebrewers.
You should try my "Better than =Guiness Stout-Stout. It is delicious!!!Randy
Zimmerman, brewer/rodmaker

------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0562E.8D1630E0

Randy,

Please send one gallonof =

We will independently evaluate your product, then collaborate on a final =

analysis. This okay with you Mike?

guides?

M-D

----- Original Message ----- 

Randy=

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000=

AMSubject: re:Guides and real =beer

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can =

that I have never been able to attribute any spooking to chrome =

Possibly, others have had a different experience, I dont know about =

have always looked on the question as one of cosmetics and I like =

surroundings, like greenery, etc. And, to me a chrome guide looks =

rod and not nearly as obtrusive as a blued or blackened =one.

industrial brews, there are some fabulous brews in America. Some of =

are as good as any beer in the world!!! Plus, America has become =

a hotbed of homebrewers. You should try my "Better than Guiness =

It is delicious!!!Randy Zimmerman,brewer/rodmaker

------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0562E.8D1630E0--

from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Nov 24 17:31:18 2000

eAONVIG20949

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: Guides and real beer

Bronze , blued or black guides simply look better. My vote is forCorona, it
simply tastes better. Oh yea, it's Mexican. Marty

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can truthfully say that I havenever been
able to attribute any spooking to chrome guides. Possibly,others have had a
different experience, I dont know about that. I havealways looked on the
question as one of cosmetics and I like chromeguides, A chrome guide guide
seems more to dissappear  and reflect thesurroundings, like greenery, etc.
And, to me a chrome guide lookslighter on a rod and not nearly as obtrusive
as a blued or blackenedone.Speaking  of Beer(one of my favorite subjects) if
one avoids the bigindustrial brews, there are some fabulous brews in
America. Some ofthe micros are as good as any beer in the world!!! Plus,
America hasbecome something of a hotbed of homebrewers. You should try
my "Betterthan Guiness Stout-Stout. It is delicious!!!Randy Zimmerman,
brewer/rodmaker

from freaner@home.com Fri Nov 24 17:36:04 2000

eAONa3G21250

0800

Subject: Re: Guides and real beer

At 6:28 PM -0500 , 11/24/00, marty wrote about Re: Guides and real
beerBronze , blued or black guides simply look better. My vote is forCorona,
it simply tastes better. Oh yea, it's Mexican. Marty

If you drink that one, have you tried Dos Equis, Noche Buena, Bohemia, Negro
Modelo?  These are all excellent Mexican beers that aren't afraid to have
some flavor and color...

Claude

from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Nov 24 17:40:25 2000

eAONePG21416

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

John Hewitt wrote:

Rodmakers...Just curious what glues are the most popular forgluing cork
rings??

JohnI use slow cure epoxy. Marty

from HomeyDKlown@att.net Fri Nov 24 18:16:04 2000

eAP0G3G21906

;Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:16:00 +0000

Subject: Re: Guides and real beer

Marty,

I agree with you on the dark guides, but I have to say that the BelgianAbbey
ales (Corsendonk, Chimay, etc.) are my faves.

Dennis

marty wrote:

Bronze , blued or black guides simply look better. My vote is forCorona, it
simply tastes better. Oh yea, it's Mexican. Marty

In all my fishing life, (45+years), I can truthfully say that I havenever been
able to attribute any spooking to chrome guides. Possibly,others have had a
different experience, I dont know about that. I havealways looked on the
question as one of cosmetics and I like chromeguides, A chrome guide guide
seems more to dissappear  and reflect thesurroundings, like greenery, etc.
And, to me a chrome guide lookslighter on a rod and not nearly as obtrusive
as a blued or blackenedone.Speaking  of Beer(one of my favorite subjects) if
one avoids the bigindustrial brews, there are some fabulous brews in
America. Some ofthe micros are as good as any beer in the world!!! Plus,
America hasbecome something of a hotbed of homebrewers. You should try
my"Betterthan Guiness Stout-Stout. It is delicious!!!Randy Zimmerman,
brewer/rodmaker

from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Fri Nov 24 19:13:53 2000

eAP1DrG22531

Subject: 3 piece node spacing

I am presently working on a 7.5 ft. 3 pc. and decided on 3 X 3 node spacingto
keep the nodes away 
from the ferrules (8 inches 
from the ends on buttand mid).  As I look at the stress curve for the tip, I
find the higheststress at about 10" and am wondering if anyone ever
changes the nodespacing pattern on just the tip to avoid a node at the high
stress point ?I am considering a 2 X 2 X 2 node pattern for the tip.  Too
weird ????

TIADavid

from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 24 19:53:17 2000

eAP1rHG22921

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

To all,I'm old fashioned and glue my cork rings right on the blank with
pliobond, then slip a fiberglass or graphite tube up the blank in front of the
rings and over the reel seat area so that I can shape the grip while on the
rod. I slip the reel seat on to the blank UNGLUED and put the cork rings in the
press with the reel seat, then remove the reel seat and the shape the grip
after the pliobond has dried.Just my $.02.Hank.

from ddeloach@pcisys.net Sat Nov 25 00:32:56 2000

eAP6WtG24980

env-
from (ddeloach@pcisys.net)

Subject: Fw: very unfortunate situation

Dear Friends,

I am sorry to have to bother the list with this but I feel it is my duty
toreport that a member of the rodmakers list has defrauded me.
Thisindividualstill has a large sum of money of mine for a rod that I am not in
possessionof.

Can somebody supply an email, snail mail, and/or phone number for
Bret(Brett?) Reiter of South Bend, IN?

It doesn't seem appropriate to give all the details of this botchedtransaction
on the list but I am at the end of my proverbial rope.

In a nutshell I paid for a collectible bamboo rod he had for sale which wasNOT
as described (incorrectly identified as a Phillipson) So I promptlyreturned it
and he agreed to send a refund. So I returned the rod to him andhe
acknowledged receipt of it via email, promising to send a refund
checksoonafter. This was approximately mid August and I still have not
recieved arefund.

He seldom answers emails and when he does it is with multiple excuses,
thenhe disappears for another few weeks, having never answered the dozens
ofe-mails I had sent him. The last time I heard 
from him was approximatelymid-October. In this final communication he
claimed to have sent the checkbut proceeded with a tale of how if he "had a
nickel for every time themailman has lost the mail in his neighborhood...."

I know many of you have done business with Mr Reiter with great success.
Iwonder why he has chosen to slight me? I have always been honest
andforthright with him and every other bamboo buyer/seller on this list.

Any help would be appreciated, off list is fine of course. Sorry for
thebandwidth and for dragging everyone into this.

Don DeLoach

from grau@buchlang.com Sat Nov 25 01:22:46 2000

eAP7MjG25482

+0100 (MET)

Organization: Lang Info Access

Subject: Quad Planing forms

Friends

There someone who sells Quad-Planing forms (metal)?

I made a Quad in a selfmade wooden form, the quad is wonderful and
i`mshure to make more quads.

Regards

Stefan

from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Nov 25 04:34:32 2000

eAPAYUG26669

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

I don't know who first decided that the node area is the weak spot. Ibelieve
they are the strongest point in any strip. Any test strip I everbent to the
breaking point broke in between nodes. Like the saying goes, don't believe
everything you read. Nodes are just a pain to work with. Marty

I am presently working on a 7.5 ft. 3 pc. and decided on 3 X 3 node spacingto
keep the nodes away 
from the ferrules (8 inches 
from the ends on buttand mid).  As I look at the stress curve for the tip, I
find the higheststress at about 10" and am wondering if anyone ever
changes the nodespacing pattern on just the tip to avoid a node at the high
stress point ?I am considering a 2 X 2 X 2 node pattern for the tip.  Too
weird ????

TIADavid

from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Nov 25 04:40:56 2000

eAPAetG26843

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Hi hank, Please explain to me why a person can't glue the seat on theblank
first (minus the butt cap) and then glue the rings against theseat . Then
shape the grip on the lathe. I have ben doing just that for15 years. Marty

To all,I'm old fashioned and glue my cork rings right on the blank withpliobond,
then slip a fiberglass or graphite tube up the blank in front ofthe rings and
over the reel seat area so that I can shape the grip while onthe rod. I slip the
reel seat on to the blank UNGLUED and put the cork ringsin the press with
the reel seat, then remove the reel seat and the shapethegrip after the
pliobond has dried.Just my $.02.Hank.

from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Nov 25 07:27:17 2000

eAPDRGG27879

Subject: Nov/Dec Contest

All,This must be the last silk line I unearth in digging through theclutter. The
contest question is easier this time, at least the answeris found on my
website.I've added several articles that may be of interest.No commercial
interest, etc., strictly educational.Best
regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/

from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Nov 25 08:10:18 2000

eAPEAHG28696

GAA04692

Subject: Diamond stone abrasiveness 

Does anyone have experience with using DMT diamond bench stones
forsharpening their plane blades? I purchased an 8" 325x/1200x along with a
6"600x. After only a few sharpenings, the 325x side of the stone has lost
itsabrasiveness. Yes, I know that the metal particles 
from the blades can fillin around the diamond crystals and need to be flushed
out. I've tried thiswith a toothbrush and some softscrub, to no avail. :) By
the way, I'mchanging the angle of attack 
from 25 to 30 degrees. It seems that Hock andLie Nielson blades come this
way. 

Has anyone another way to clean the surface? Thanks indeed

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Nov 25 08:20:13 2000

eAPEKDG29688

GAA19258

Subject: Diamond stone abrasiveness follow-up

I just read that using baby oil rather than water during sharpening willfloat
the metal particles and keep them 
from clogging the pores around thediamond crystals. Sounds logical.I'll give
this a go and hear any other suggestions. I'm hoping that the oilwill loose the
particles already clogged in the pores.

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 25 08:43:50 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAPEhoG00201

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 08:43:45 -0600

"'Liste'" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

I'd think you'd want the spring tempered stainless. Check the lure
makingsuppliers, as many spinner baits are made 
from it.You can bend it, much likemusic wire, yet it gives spring action, and is
very tough. It's also used

shops.

GMA

from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Nov 25 08:59:43 2000

eAPExgG00455

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Marty,I leave the reel seat off because a mortised seat is not round and I use
a mounted hand drill and 2 adjustable ball bearing sets to support the rod in
front and behind the grip. If the reel seat is not mortised then I glue it on and
mask it while shaping the grip. If you have a better way, let me
know.Regards,Hank.

from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Nov 25 09:00:05 2000

eAPF05G00548

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Marty et al.,I agree, everything I've bent to destruction broke between the
nodes. I believe Ralph Moon has found the same. This is another case where
"thebook" is in error, I believe.Hank.

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 25 09:04:32 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAPF4WG00785

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:04:25 -0600

, "Liste" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Yes, there are several brands of spinner baits (for bass) made 
from titaniumwire, on the market, and its both tough, and has great spring
ability !Saying titanium is about like saying "fruit", as there are so many
types !

GMA

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 25 09:09:40 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAPF9eG00992

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:09:33 -0600

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

This is where chrome plating came to be used, as it protects the music wire

from rusting. Many machine tool suppliers carry spring grade stainless,
andIbelieve Travers Tool does too. It's available by the 1/4 lb., and lb.shipped
in rolls, at very decent prices.

GMA

from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Nov 25 09:50:18 2000

eAPFoGG01644

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness 

I have the 600 and 1200 grit DTM "stones".  Yes after the first
fewsharpenings they feel like they loose their cut, but they have justlost the
points on some of the diamonds.  I don't think its a cloggingthing.  They don't
feel as "sharp" but they will sharpen your toolswell for years (mine have).

I just use water on mine and clean them occasionaly with kitchen cleanser
and a scrub brush.......................................................................Frank
Stetzer                         "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                      
than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-
warmer."  Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's
Luck", 1899.

On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, Frank Olivieri wrote:

Does anyone have experience with using DMT diamond bench stones
forsharpening their plane blades? I purchased an 8" 325x/1200x along with
a6"600x. After only a few sharpenings, the 325x side of the stone has lost
itsabrasiveness. Yes, I know that the metal particles 
from the blades can fillin around the diamond crystals and need to be flushed
out. I've tried thiswith a toothbrush and some softscrub, to no avail. :) By
the way, I'mchanging the angle of attack 
from 25 to 30 degrees. It seems that HockandLie Nielson blades come this
way. 

Has anyone another way to clean the surface? Thanks indeed

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 25 09:53:36 2000

eAPFraG01804

Subject: Re: Fw: very unfortunate situation

As coincidence would have it, I just put his Phoenix line on eBay due to never
getting a payment. Hope that he is all right. Maybe there is more to it? 

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 25 10:00:42 2000

eAPG0gG01999

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness 

Hi Frank:This also sounds similar to the advice 
from Russ at Golden Witch regarding ferrule files. He says to rub them with
soap (Ivory) first and then rinse off the build up when it clogs. I don't knwo if
this would work for you application, but I would try Garrett Wade or a
supplier and ask them.I use the Tormek sharpener (although I use the Hand
Mill for almost everything), and I switched back to 30 degrees 
from 45. I like the 30 better for making my splices on nodeless rods. It just
cuts nicely for me.Best regards,Bob

At 09:07 AM 11/25/00 -0500, Frank Olivieri wrote:Does anyone have
experience with using DMT diamond bench stones forsharpening their plane
blades? I purchased an 8" 325x/1200x along with a6"600x. After only a few
sharpenings, the 325x side of the stone has lost itsabrasiveness. Yes, I know
that the metal particles 
from the blades can fillin around the diamond crystals and need to be flushed
out. I've tried thiswith a toothbrush and some softscrub, to no avail. :) By
the way, I'mchanging the angle of attack 
from 25 to 30 degrees. It seems that HockandLie Nielson blades come this
way.

Has anyone another way to clean the surface? Thanks indeed

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from grau@buchlang.com Sat Nov 25 10:05:42 2000

eAPG5fG02155

+0100

Subject: Swelled butts

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C056FF.0FC82CC0

Friends

We have cold today here in the swiss mountains, think my brain is =freezing
*gg*. Hey - i forgot (!) how to make a swell in an butt without =a special
planing form. I made this some years ago with my normal =planing form -
think sliding the spline up and away the form, is this =right? But how?

Regards

Stefan

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C056FF.0FC82CC0

Friends

We have cold today here in the swiss mountains, =

is freezing *gg*. Hey - i forgot (!) how to make a swell in an butt =

special planing form. I made this some years ago with my normal planing =

how?

Regards

Stefan

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C056FF.0FC82CC0--

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 25 10:08:31 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAPG8UG02312

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:08:30 -0600

Subject: Re: Dressing Ferrule stations

There is a scale model builder who has made dowel cutter tooling, using
2electric drills. He can cut a dowel to any scale dimension, to equal thesteel
tubing diameter used in an original airplane ! Seems like I have seendowel
cutting machines/tooling in one of the catalogs on woodworking ?Perhaps
these could be modified to cut ferrule stations, to any specifiedsize ?

GMA

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 25 10:17:44 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAPGHhG02550

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:17:36 -0600

, ,"'Liste'" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

I think this refers to tungsten steel, not pure tungsten. The tungsten
makesthe steel more abrasion resistant.

GMA

from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Nov 25 11:21:41 2000

eAPHLfG03185

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness

Hi Frank, I use a DMT 325x stone for prelimenary sharpening. It's superfast
and very aggresive. It does not however produce what I feel is asharp edge. I
go 
from the DMT to water stones to finish. Try some naveljelly to clean out the
stone. I use a product I got years ago with aGrizzly diamond stone that works
very well. It smells just like naveljelly. Marty

Does anyone have experience with using DMT diamond bench stones
forsharpening their plane blades? I purchased an 8" 325x/1200x along with
a6"600x. After only a few sharpenings, the 325x side of the stone has lost
itsabrasiveness. Yes, I know that the metal particles 
from the blades can fillin around the diamond crystals and need to be flushed
out. I've tried thiswith a toothbrush and some softscrub, to no avail. :) By
the way, I'mchanging the angle of attack 
from 25 to 30 degrees. It seems that HockandLie Nielson blades come this
way.

Has anyone another way to clean the surface? Thanks indeed

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Nov 25 11:26:00 2000

eAPHPxG03351

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Hi Hank, I understand. I use a small wood lathe with a bored headstockand
mount on the rod shaft with the tailstock supporting the seat. Marty

Marty,I leave the reel seat off because a mortised seat is not round and I
usea mounted hand drill and 2 adjustable ball bearing sets to support the rod
infront and behind the grip. If the reel seat is not mortised then I glue it
onand mask it while shaping the grip. If you have a better way, let me
know.Regards,Hank.

from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Nov 25 11:50:44 2000

eAPHoiG03705

Subject: Re: Dressing Ferrule stations

rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

In a message dated 11/25/2000 11:09:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nobler@satx.rr.com writes:

Golden Witch will soon be coming out with a set of eightferrule station
cutters. I just developed these new tools andhave sent some to Russ for his
evaluation. They are basicallythe same ones that I use here in my shop, to
cut the stationson my blanks in the lathe. There will be eight cutters in the
set. 
from 9/64 to 16/64.Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to sell you anything,I
just thought, with you guys talking about this type of thingon the list, that
some of you would like to know about it.

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html

from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 25 11:55:32 2000

eAPHtVG03893

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:00:07 -0600

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Just for info.Gluing the reel seat on is the last thing I do. I can set a reel on
the seat andalign it perfectly with the guides before the glue sets. I started
doing this onround rods where you don't have a flat for alignment.Tony   
FlyTyr@southshore.com

FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:

Marty,I leave the reel seat off because a mortised seat is not round and I
usea mounted hand drill and 2 adjustable ball bearing sets to support the rod
infront and behind the grip. If the reel seat is not mortised then I glue it
onand mask it while shaping the grip. If you have a better way, let me
know.Regards,Hank.

from dnorl@uswest.net Sat Nov 25 12:51:32 2000

eAPIpVG04630

0000

(63.228.5.180)

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Hi Hank and Marty,Iv'e been glueing on the reel seat first since I made my
first rod(fiberglass) in 1946.,Dave-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Hi hank, Please explain to me why a person can't glue the seat on theblank
first (minus the butt cap) and then glue the rings against theseat . Then
shape the grip on the lathe. I have ben doing just that for15 years. Marty

To all,I'm old fashioned and glue my cork rings right on the blank withpliobond,
then slip a fiberglass or graphite tube up the blank in frontofthe rings and
over the reel seat area so that I can shape the grip whileonthe rod. I slip the
reel seat on to the blank UNGLUED and put the corkringsin the press with the
reel seat, then remove the reel seat and the shapethegrip after the pliobond
has dried.Just my $.02.Hank.

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Nov 25 12:56:06 2000

eAPIu6G04817

VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

Subject: RE: Quad Planing forms

Yes, Grindstone Angler near Toronto Canada sells quad forms for about
$650cdn which is only about $425 U.S. I haven't used them but do own a set
oftheir hex forms and the quality is very good. The phone number is:
(905)689-0880.

I'm planning on buying a set in the new year.

Richard

-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 2:21 AM

Subject: Quad Planing forms

Friends

There someone who sells Quad-Planing forms (metal)?

I made a Quad in a selfmade wooden form, the quad is wonderful and
i`mshure to make more quads.

Regards

Stefan

from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Nov 25 12:58:22 2000

eAPIwLG04979

VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15)

Subject: RE: Cork/glue

Hi hank, Please explain to me why a person can't glue the seat on theblank
first (minus the butt cap) and then glue the rings against theseat . Then
shape the grip on the lathe. I have ben doingjust that for15 years. Marty

Oh sure... make us all look dumb. Duh.

Great idea Marty. You'll just need to certain of the side the guides willbe on
prior to turning the grip.

Richard

from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Nov 25 13:05:12 2000

eAPJ5BG05320

Subject: Re: Dressing Ferrule stations

bconner@mediaone.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Since Dave Leclair is monitoring the list today, I thought I would give him a
little tip of the hat. (no financial interest, etc.)  I recently mounted some of
Dave's   handmade snake guides on the Catskill 2000 rod. He had donated
them to the cause. They were terrific, beautifully formed and finished.Maybe
we can prevail on you to demonstrate your techniques for us
sometime,Dave?

from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Nov 25 13:11:56 2000

eAPJBtG05586

Subject: Re: Dressing Ferrule stations

bconner@mediaone.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

In a message dated 11/25/2000 2:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
TSmithwick@aol.com writes:

No Problem Tom, I hope to make it to one of the gettogethers, one of these
days. I'd be glad to demonstratehow I make the guides and finish them. It
would be my pleasure.

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html

from newmin@ptdprolog.net Sat Nov 25 13:34:19 2000

eAPJYIG06035

0000

Subject: hand mill

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C056ED.7E71D0C0

Got a bug for Tom Morgan handmill but I haven't seen one in =action.Anyone
have any experence with the hand mill? How accurate is it =and do you still
need to use your planing form and scraper to finish the =final taper, or can
you glue up strips directly 
from it?  What is the =approximate time to cut a single strip?  Thanks in
advance.Newmin

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C056ED.7E71D0C0

Got a bug for Tom Morgan handmill but I haven't seen=

action.Anyone have any experence with the hand mill? How accurate is it =

you still need to use your planing form and scraper to finish the final =

or can you glue up strips directly 
from it?  What is the approximate =

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C056ED.7E71D0C0--

from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Nov 25 14:41:53 2000

eAPKfqG06877

Subject: Re: hand mill

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C056F6.22227140

I must tell you that I simply would not do without my Morgan Handmill.  =As
far as accuracy goes it is dead on the money being accurate.  You can =get
as accurate as you want with it.  As for the service after the =sale....Tom
Morgan is simply the best.  He and his staff are number one =in my book.

Yes you can glue strips up directly off the Handmill, and it only takes =a few
minutes to plane a strip with the Handbill.

I live in Tennessee and if you are ever in this area you are welcome to =

Joe

Got a bug for Tom Morgan handmill but I haven't seen one in =action.Anyone
have any experence with the hand mill? How accurate is it =and do you still
need to use your planing form and scraper to finish the =final taper, or can
you glue up strips directly 
from it? What is the =approximate time to cut a single strip?  Thanks in
advance.Newmin

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C056F6.22227140

I must tell you that I simply would not do without =

are number one in my book.

Yes you can glue strips up directly off the =

only takes a few minutes to plane a strip with the =Handbill.

I live in Tennessee and if you are ever in this area =

Joe

Got a bug for Tom Morgan handmill but I haven't =

action.Anyone have any experence with the hand mill? How accurate is =

you still need to use your planing form and scraper to finish the =

or can you glue up strips directly 
from it? What is the approximate =

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C056F6.22227140--

from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Nov 25 15:32:45 2000

eAPLWjG07526

, ,

Subject: Re: Dressing Ferrule stations

Dave, why not think about coming and demo' ing at the Grand Gathering,
May26, 27, 2001?   Michigan is only a few hours away.  We get quite a few
ofthe MI guys attending.

----------From: LECLAIR123@aol.com

bconner@mediaone.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dressing
Ferrule stationsDate: Saturday, November 25, 2000 2:11 PM

In a message dated 11/25/2000 2:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
TSmithwick@aol.com writes:

Since Dave Leclair is monitoring the list today, I thought I would givehim a
little tip of the hat. (no financial interest, etc.)  I recently mounted

some of Dave's   handmade snake guides on the Catskill 2000 rod. He
haddonated them to the cause. They were terrific, beautifully formed and
finished. Maybe we can prevail on you to demonstrate your techniques for us
sometime,Dave?

No Problem Tom, I hope to make it to one of the gettogethers, one of these
days. I'd be glad to demonstratehow I make the guides and finish them. It
would be my pleasure.

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html

from dnorl@uswest.net Sat Nov 25 16:25:21 2000

eAPMPLG08082

0000

(63.228.6.207)

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Do you think then it is safe to ignore the recomendation to keep theferrules
and tip guide 5 inches away 
from a node?Dave-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Marty et al.,I agree, everything I've bent to destruction broke between the
nodes. Ibelieve Ralph Moon has found the same. This is another case where
"thebook"is in error, I believe.Hank.

from dnorl@uswest.net Sat Nov 25 16:30:40 2000

eAPMUdG08265

0000

(63.228.6.207)

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

I glue the reel seat on first and tape a guide on the flat to aline it.Dave-----
Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Just for info.Gluing the reel seat on is the last thing I do. I can set a reel on
theseat andalign it perfectly with the guides before the glue sets. I started
doingthis onround rods where you don't have a flat for alignment.Tony   
FlyTyr@southshore.com

FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:

Marty,I leave the reel seat off because a mortised seat is not round and
Iusea mounted hand drill and 2 adjustable ball bearing sets to support therod
infront and behind the grip. If the reel seat is not mortised then I glueit
onand mask it while shaping the grip. If you have a better way, let
meknow.Regards,Hank.

from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 25 17:15:53 2000

eAPNFqG08923

"RODMAKERS" 

Subject: Re: hand mill

I am with Joe on this one. Great strips right off the Hand Mill and also quads
and pentas. I don't know what I would do without it. I could easily build a rod in
a day (2 tip blank) if life didn't get in the way! Tom has been such a help to
me. I asked him about ferrules once, and he wrote me a dissertation on the
subject. Unbelievable, he goes way beyond the call ofduty.Best regards,Bob
M.

At 03:41 PM 11/25/00 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:I must tell you that I
simply would not do without my Morgan Handmill.  As far as accuracy goes it
is dead on the money being accurate.  You can get as accurate as you want
with it.  As for the service after the sale....Tom Morgan is simply the best. 
He and his staff are number one in my book.

Yes you can glue strips up directly off the Handmill, and it only takes a few
minutes to plane a strip with the Handbill.

I live in Tennessee and if you are ever in this area you are welcome to come
look at mine.

Joe

Got a bug for Tom Morgan handmill but I haven't seen one in action.Anyone
have any experence with the hand mill? How accurate is it and do you still
need to use your planing form and scraper to finish the final taper, or can
you glue up strips directly 
from it? What is the approximate time to cut a single strip?  Thanks in
advance.Newmin

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 25 17:49:21 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eAPNnKG09465

Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:49:16 -0600

Subject: Re: hand mill

Adjusted for the final taper, you can cut 6 (or whatever) identical
strips,ready for gluing up, other than scraping the enamel. That is usually
donefirst.

GMA

from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Nov 25 18:46:10 2000

eAQ0k9G10190

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Yes I think it's safe. Thousands of production rods didn't worry aboutit. I just
looked at a prefire Leonard that had the 3x3 configuration 3"

from the ferrule. I also never saw an FE Thomas that didn,t have atleast a
couple stacked nodes along the shaft. But I would still try tostay away 
from the ferrules and tip top. Marty

Do you think then it is safe to ignore the recomendation to keep theferrules
and tip guide 5 inches away 
from a node?Dave-----Original Message-----From: FISHWOOL@aol.com 

Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, November 25, 2000 9:01
AMSubject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Marty et al.,I agree, everything I've bent to destruction broke between the
nodes. Ibelieve Ralph Moon has found the same. This is another case where
"thebook"is in error, I believe.Hank.

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Nov 25 19:09:35 2000

eAQ19YG10491

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Dave,That's a good question.  Maybe we ought to discuss the way one
goesaboutstaggering nodes.  Most of the instructions I see suggest that we
staggerevenlybetween nodes.  For example, if the internodal distance is 15",
and we are touse a 2x2x2 node stagger, then the distance between each
two-node pairshould be5".

But that's not the way I do it.

What about others of you?

Harry

David Norling wrote:

Do you think then it is safe to ignore the recomendation to keep theferrules
and tip guide 5 inches away 
from a node?

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Nov 25 19:28:44 2000

eAQ1ShG10765

17:28:44 PST

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

i think 3" or 3 1/2" is plenty. i think tiptops maremore important and that is
to insure the rod binds upwith the least possibility  of problems.  timothy

--- David Norling  wrote:Do you think then it is safe to ignore
therecomendation to keep theferrules and tip guide 5 inches away 
from a node?Dave-----Original Message-----From: FISHWOOL@aol.com 

dpvbkjs@somtel.com

Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Date: Saturday, November 25, 2000 9:01 AMSubject: Re: 3 piece node
spacing

Marty et al.,I agree, everything I've bent to destructionbroke between the
nodes. Ibelieve Ralph Moon has found the same. This isanother case where
"thebook"is in error, I believe.Hank.

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Nov 25 19:44:50 2000

eAQ1inG11010

TAA11173 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2000

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

I'm not an engineer, but my feeling is that nodes act as
"stressconcentrators"---they are stiff spots compared to the rest ofthe
strip.  A test strip may not break at a node, but the samedegree of bend will
break the nodeful strip before a well-glued nodeless strip, because the
nodeful strip is actually bending more between each node.

We have this same discussion every couple years. Maybe someday
someneutral person will do exhaustive tests and settle the issue. Naw...what
fun would that be?......................................................................Frank
Stetzer                         "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                      
than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-
warmer."  Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's
Luck", 1899.

On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, marty wrote:

I don't know who first decided that the node area is the weak spot. Ibelieve
they are the strongest point in any strip. Any test strip I everbent to the
breaking point broke in between nodes. Like the saying goes, don't believe
everything you read. Nodes are just a pain to work with. Marty

from caneman@clnk.com Sat Nov 25 19:48:22 2000

eAQ1mLG11151

(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

I use a 3x3 pattern and evenly stagger my node clusters.  Just looks
betterthat way to me.  My $.02...

Bob

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Dave,That's a good question.  Maybe we ought to discuss the way one
goesaboutstaggering nodes.  Most of the instructions I see suggest that we
staggerevenlybetween nodes.  For example, if the internodal distance is 15",
and we aretouse a 2x2x2 node stagger, then the distance between each two-
node pairshould be5".

But that's not the way I do it.

What about others of you?

Harry

David Norling wrote:

Do you think then it is safe to ignore the recomendation to keep theferrules
and tip guide 5 inches away 
from a node?

from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Nov 25 21:39:46 2000

eAQ3djG12345

Subject: Off Subject GPS

Has anyone seen the GPS CD 
from Trout Unlimited?  Is it any thing more than the Garmin Roads and
Recreation.  Thought I would ask before putting it onmy Xmas wish list.
TIADoug Hall

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Nov 25 23:17:44 2000

eAQ5HhG13396

21:17:44 PST

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

hi bob, i've used 3x3 and 2x2x2 and a garrisonstaggered node scheme.
sometimes one works out betterthan another for me depending on the length
of the rodand the distance between the nodes on different piecesof bamboo.
rod barch has made a couple of rods doingeverything wrong, splines 
from various pieces of caneand paying varying or no attention to node
placementand became convinced that some systematic placement ofnodes
to be the most critical. one of these rods atthe time is a rod that he fished
alot and said it hada tendency to take a twist-type set and hestraightened it
periodically. the 3x3 seems usually to be the easiest to work with for me. 
timothy

--- Bob Nunley  wrote:I use a 3x3 pattern and evenly stagger my
nodeclusters.  Just looks betterthat way to me.  My $.02...

Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd 

Date: Saturday, November 25, 2000 7:09 PMSubject: Re: 3 piece node
spacing

Dave,That's a good question.  Maybe we ought todiscuss the way one
goesaboutstaggering nodes.  Most of the instructions I seesuggest that we
staggerevenlybetween nodes.  For example, if the internodaldistance is 15",
and we aretouse a 2x2x2 node stagger, then the distance betweeneach two-
node pairshould be5".

But that's not the way I do it.

What about others of you?

Harry

David Norling wrote:

Do you think then it is safe to ignore therecomendation to keep theferrules
and tip guide 5 inches away 
from a node?

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Nov 26 01:38:13 2000

eAQ7cCG14999

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Organization: GOULD

Hi Marty and Hank,I do the same as Marty describes with a live center in the
tail stock.Ray----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Hi Hank, I understand. I use a small wood lathe with a bored headstockand
mount on the rod shaft with the tailstock supporting the seat. Marty

Marty,I leave the reel seat off because a mortised seat is not round and
Iusea mounted hand drill and 2 adjustable ball bearing sets to support therod
infront and behind the grip. If the reel seat is not mortised then I glueit
onand mask it while shaping the grip. If you have a better way, let
meknow.Regards,Hank.

from dnorl@uswest.net Sun Nov 26 06:31:44 2000

eAQCVhG16600

(63.228.4.67)

"    rod 'akers" 

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

I like the idea Bob poses of equally spacing the nodes and ending up with
5inches between them. What happens and what do you do when the blank
endsupwith less than 5 inches to play with between the ferrule and the tip
guide?Bob?Dave-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

hi bob, i've used 3x3 and 2x2x2 and a garrisonstaggered node scheme.
sometimes one works out betterthan another for me depending on the length
of the rodand the distance between the nodes on different piecesof bamboo.
rod barch has made a couple of rods doingeverything wrong, splines 
from various pieces of caneand paying varying or no attention to node
placementand became convinced that some systematic placement ofnodes
to be the most critical. one of these rods atthe time is a rod that he fished
alot and said it hada tendency to take a twist-type set and hestraightened it
periodically. the 3x3 seems usuallyto be the easiest to work with for me. 
timothy

--- Bob Nunley  wrote:I use a 3x3 pattern and evenly stagger my
nodeclusters.  Just looks betterthat way to me.  My $.02...

Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd 

Date: Saturday, November 25, 2000 7:09 PMSubject: Re: 3 piece node
spacing

Dave,That's a good question.  Maybe we ought todiscuss the way one
goesaboutstaggering nodes.  Most of the instructions I seesuggest that we
staggerevenlybetween nodes.  For example, if the internodaldistance is 15",
and we aretouse a 2x2x2 node stagger, then the distance betweeneach two-
node pairshould be5".

But that's not the way I do it.

What about others of you?

Harry

David Norling wrote:

Do you think then it is safe to ignore therecomendation to keep theferrules
and tip guide 5 inches away 
from a node?

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 26 07:05:34 2000

eAQD5XG16899        for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2000

+0000

Subject: Node spacing/Thomas & Thomas blanks

I saw a new Payne rod yesterday at the local fly shop. It had 3x3
nodespacing. It was a nice rod, but at $1495 I am anxious to get one of
myrods finished and in the shop. I also use 3x3 node spacing, I think
itfacilitates the best use of the cane.

The manager of the local fly shop has some old Thomas & Thomas blanksthat
were bought as their rough bundles. Somewhere around 40 pieces ofbutts,
mids and tips. She is wanting to unload the lot. If anyone isinterested contact
me off list. No financial interest etc.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

from oakmere@carol.net Sun Nov 26 08:03:30 2000

eAQE3TG17353

Subject: RE: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

Hi Folks:

Well I am in need of some information 
from the very knowledgable list.  Iam preparing to pursue either using the
abrasive sheet "scary" system orwater/diamond stones for sharpening plane
blades. Well in reviewing theWoodcraft November catalog I find that the US
and Japan apparently use twodifferent definitions for the abrasive grit. For
example:  240 US vs 280Japan; 500 US vs 1000 Japan; and etc.  Well when I
read the Cattanch bookthat talks about 1000/6000 waterstone I assume
this is based on the Japangrit system - is this correct? So this would mean
that if I were going touse the US abrasive system (scary sharp) then I would
be thinking of 500grit US abrasive paper - is that correct? I would like some
of the expertsto fill me in on what they know about the different abrasive
gritnomenclatures so that I can move forward with what direction I
initiallydecide to take for sharpening plane blades.

Thanks in advance for all you input.

Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and Rod2932 North Bayshore
DriveSeneca, SC  29672

Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570-753-
8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net
(home); 864-882-0077

from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Nov 26 09:00:01 2000

eAQF00G18269

Subject: RE: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

Here's some info I had stashed away...

from wbarry@mhnj.sbi.comTue Jun 27 10:23:38 1995

Subject: Stone grits: US vs Japanese

stetzer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Frank Stetzer) writes:you please email or
repost?  I'm wondering what waterstone I'd need to"go finer" than my 1200
grit diamond stone, or even if it is worthwhile....

Frank,Here's some stuff...

Stone Comparisions:                                U.S.     Japanese_Abrasive Stone
Type_                           _Grit_     _Grit_Coarse SiC, Coarse AlO                          
100        150Medium SiC                                       180        240Medium AlO,
Coarse Diamond                       240        280Fine SiC, Fine AlO                              
280        360Medium Diamond                                   320        500Washita                                         
350        600Soft Arkansas                                    500     1000-1200Hard
White Arkansas                              700       2000Fine Diamond, Medium Black
Ceramic             600-700     2000Hard Black Arkansas                             
900       4000Ultra-Fine White Ceramic, Extra-Fine Diamond  1000-1200   
6000

Aluminum Oxide aka alumina (AlO), occurs naturally as corundum, inhydrated
formas bauxite, & w/impurities as ruby/saphire/emery.Silicon Carbide (SiC)
is a bluish-black crstalline compound, one of thehardestknown substances
which can cut steel fast than AlO, but not as fine.India is a Norton trademark
for their aluminum oxide oilstones.

Some other FYI stuff......

The Norton grinding wheel nomenclature breaks done as follows:32A or 38A 
-Symbol for Aluminum Oxide, 38 purer (Alundum) will runcooler46, 60, 100 -
Grit size higher=finerH I J K     -Hardness, softer is cooler but doesn't last
(stay in this range!)5 through 8 -Structure (5 is smoother grind / shorter
life)VBE         -Letters represents the Binding process, VBE is good for
toolsteel

and some of my own commments...... ...about that perfect edge, I use
oilstones, 
from India, washita, soft & hardwhite, and sometimes a hard black.  But to
get that really sharp edge, thebackof the iron has to shine like a mirror near
the edge, this is imperative.The other extra step, that will really make a
difference, is to polish theedge after honing it.   This can be done on either a
hard felt buffing wheelor a flat leather strop charged with a fine buffing
compound.  I've been usingthat Veritas "green" one, but have a lot of
experience with buffing on agrinderwith soft wheels, I would think that a
white rouge might do the trick too.Using a hard felt wheel, I can re-polish an
edge 5-10x's between honing on the stones.  

BTW, I leave the power tools for home renovation work, and bascially use
onlyhand tools for woodworking, mostly old Stanley's etc.etc. that I've
beencollecting

Of course, this brings up another point.  The quality of the steel also makesa
difference in how easily a blade can be sharpened and retain its edge.Old pre-
WW2 chisels & plane irons are usually (but not always) better.There are a
few exceptions, ie.Ron Hock, Lie-Neilsen, some Records are OK(I've got a
bunch). etc.etc.  

...and of coarse "how sharp is REALLY sharp???"  Have a reputable
prosharpen& hone & polish your blades properly to get the idea.  This is a
standard youhave to set for yourself.

Best of luck.... Walter

On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, Frank W. Paul wrote:

Hi Folks:

Well I am in need of some information 
from the very knowledgable list.  Iam preparing to pursue either using the
abrasive sheet "scary" system orwater/diamond stones for sharpening plane
blades. Well in reviewing theWoodcraft November catalog I find that the US
and Japan apparently usetwodifferent definitions for the abrasive grit. For
example:  240 US vs 280...

Thanks in advance for all you input.

Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFox

from anglport@con2.com Sun Nov 26 09:00:45 2000

eAQF0iG18366

Subject: RE: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

Frank,I went to my local hardware store and picked up all the grits 
from 150toabout 600 (they're cheaper there than the next supplier) and
then proceededto an auto-collision-shop supplier and bought 
from 500 or 600 down to 2000grit. I bought about 3-4 sheets of the 8X10
hardware stuff and about 6sheets of the more expensive spread (which also
shrinks down to 4X8 sheetswhen it gets finer, further raising the price),
mainly because the autoplace is father 
from home. I cut the stuff into 2 1/2 - 3" wide strips, 8"long, temp-glue it to
a medicine cabinet mirror door ( often I justmasking-tape them down, but the
WD 40 I use as a lubricant will soften thatpretty quickly and then you have to
hold them with your fingers) and runthe blade over successive grits til I'm
happy.The 1500 and 2000 grits seem to do very little beyond the others
andtherefore don't get used much. I have a Sears hinged blade guide which
Ilocked up with pliers so it always holds the blade at the same angle (seeChris
Bogart's site for the gauge to affix the blades repetitively) and Irun all 6
blades through the system each time I run out of the sharpness Ineed. It's a
pleasure to use, cheap, and with multiples planes to sharpen atonce, darn
near takes the annoyance out of honing! As far as comparinggrits, Japan-to-
US, sorry, I just wasted your time!;^)I assume you know enough to flatten
the back of the blade beforeattempting any real razor-edges.Have fun!Art

At 09:04 AM 11/26/2000 -0500, Frank W. Paul wrote:Hi Folks:

Well I am in need of some information 
from the very knowledgable list.  Iam preparing to pursue either using the
abrasive sheet "scary" system orwater/diamond stones for sharpening plane
blades. Well in reviewing theWoodcraft November catalog I find that the US
and Japan apparently usetwodifferent definitions for the abrasive grit. For
example:  240 US vs 280Japan; 500 US vs 1000 Japan; and etc.  Well when I
read the Cattanch bookthat talks about 1000/6000 waterstone I assume
this is based on theJapangrit system - is this correct? So this would mean
that if I were going touse the US abrasive system (scary sharp) then I would
be thinking of 500grit US abrasive paper - is that correct? I would like some
of the expertsto fill me in on what they know about the different abrasive
gritnomenclatures so that I can move forward with what direction I
initiallydecide to take for sharpening plane blades.

Thanks in advance for all you input.

Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and Rod2932 North Bayshore
DriveSeneca, SC  29672

Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570-753-
8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net
(home); 864-882-0077

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Nov 26 09:19:46 2000

eAQFJjG18660

Subject: Re: Node spacing/Thomas & Thomas blanks

A pal and I bought some of those bundles at $5/bundle ! I still have mine.

GMA

from iank@ts.co.nz Sun Nov 26 12:42:03 2000

eAQIg1G20376

, "        rod 'akers" 

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

David,

I use the system that appeared in "the Planning form" some time  ago.
Myacknowledgement to the author but unfortunately I do not have my copy
withme so I cannot attribute a name. My apologies.

This system involves cutting the culm to the length appropriate for the
rodbeing built before splitting the cane. This involves measuring down 
from anode the appropriate length for the rod being built. If a rod has a 4
footsection then it is necessary to measure down 4 ' plus say 7" for offset
fora 3by3 spacing plus say 4" for overlap at each end.  It is then possible
toconsider whether there will be nodes close to the ferrule for thatparticular
section of culm for that length of rod if it is a tip section. Itdepends on the
internodal length for that section of culm. If nodes areclose to the ferrule it
is probable that the section of culm is bettersuited for a different length of
rod section.

The cutting of the culm immediately below the node ensures there is
alwaysmore then 5 inches 
from the tip for the top section and the ferrule for abutt section. Using the
above method  it is possible to ensure that for atip section  there is good
clearance 
from the ferrule for the nodes.

The same principals apply for  mid section ,  although I follow
Dickersonspolicy and only build 2 piece rods so have not done it for a 3 piece
rod.that is because it is easier to make 2 piece and if it is good enough
forhim it is good enough for me ).

Ian----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

I like the idea Bob poses of equally spacing the nodes and ending up
with5inches between them. What happens and what do you do when the
blankendsupwith less than 5 inches to play with between the ferrule and the
tipguide?Bob?Dave-----Original Message-----

from grau@buchlang.com Sun Nov 26 13:09:25 2000

eAQJ9OG20921

+0100

Subject: Swiss&European Rodmakers Gathering 2001

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01C057DC.FFD143E0

Friends

After several discusions with European Freinds we would give it a try to
=make an  "Swiss&European Rodmakers Gathering" in summer 01 ( End of
=july/beginning of august in the Swiss mountains).

Before we start we send on request a small questionnaire ( as word.doc) =to
all interested people.

angelruten@smile.ch

Thanks

Stefan/Switzerland

------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01C057DC.FFD143E0

Friends

After several discusions with European Freinds we =

mountains).

Before we start we send on request a small =

word.doc) to all interested people.

angelruten@smile.ch

Thanks

Stefan/Switzerland

------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01C057DC.FFD143E0--

from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 13:25:43 2000

eAQJPhG21432

LAA19735

Subject: which finishes?

Hi all,

I'm considering going with tung-oil finishes for wrapping and finalfinishing.
Any comments and suggestions for brands that are being used?

Also, does anyone have a source for a tapered cork file. Wayne, if
thatgentleman stills makes them, and will ship one, may I have his address?

Thanks indeed,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from ldavis@coweblink.net Sun Nov 26 13:46:43 2000

eAQJkgG21795

; Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:42:24 -0700 MST

Subject: Tapered Cork Reamer

Kaufmann's Streamborn Catalog www.kman.compage 63. They have 3 sizes
at $5.50 each

Lowellldavis@coweblink.net

from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sun Nov 26 13:47:18 2000

eAQJlHG21866

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win95; en-US; m18)
Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

Hi,

To find a good description of keeping nodes away 
from ferrules and tips lookat Frank Neunemanns page :

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.html

clickon the articles link and then scroll down until you find an article

help.Some of the other articles which I am sure the majority of us know
throughthe planing form newsletter are also very helpful.

Stuart

Ian Kearney wrote:David,I use the system that appeared in "the
Planningform" some time  ago. Myacknowledgement to the author
butunfortunately I do not have my copy withme so I cannot attribute aname.
My apologies.This system involves cutting the culm to thelength appropriate
for the rodbeing built before splitting the cane. Thisinvolves measuring down 
from anode the appropriate length for the rodbeing built. If a rod has a 4
footsection then it is necessary to measuredown 4 ' plus say 7" for offset
fora 3by3 spacing plus say 4" for overlapat each end.  It is then possible
toconsider whether there will be nodesclose to the ferrule for thatparticular
section of culm for that length ofrod if it is a tip section. Itdepends on the
internodal length for thatsection of culm. If nodes areclose to the ferrule it
is probable that thesection of culm is b!ettersuited for a different length of
rod section.The cuttingof the culm immediately below the node ensures there
is alwaysmorethen 5 inches 
from the tip for the top section and the ferrule for abuttsection. Using the
above method  it is possible to ensure that for atipsection  there is good
clearance 
from the ferrule for the nodes.Thesame principals apply for  mid section , 
although I followDickersonspolicy and only build 2 piece rods so have not done
it for a 3piece rod. that is because it is easier to make 2 piece and if it is
goodenough forhim it is good enough for me ).Ian----- Original

Re: 3 piece node spacingI like the idea Bob poses of equallyspacing the nodes
and ending up with5inches between them. Whathappens and what do you do
when the blank endsupwith less than 5 inches to playwith between the ferrule
and the tipguide?Bob?Dave-----OriginalMessage-----

from rbrand@mmcable.com Sun Nov 26 16:43:40 2000

eAQMhdG23604

Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:41:44 -0600

Subject: Payne Highland Taper

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C057C8.35270800

Hello All!Does anyone have the history and the taper on the Payne "Highland"
rod.

TIARodney Brand

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C057C8.35270800

Hello All!

Payne "Highland" rod.

TIARodney Brand

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C057C8.35270800--

from rmoon@ida.net Sun Nov 26 16:54:27 2000

eAQMsQG23780

0000

Subject: Re: Cheap Dial Caliper

I got a harbour freight dial caliper for about $14.  for what I use it for it isok. 
I still prefer a micrometer.Ralph

Christopher McDowell wrote:

Stefan,

If you can order through Harbor Freight tools then they have
inexpensiveChinese dial calipers. I assume they have a website, but don't
know theaddress unless it's www.harborfreight.com

Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu

11/23 11:36a >>>Friends

Where i can get an cheap Dial caliper for inch measuring. Most i do it
inmillimeters, but for some tapers i need one in inch.

Any online-source available?

Regards

Stefan/Switzerland

from eharrison241@earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 17:55:41 2000

eAQNteG24549

PAA28251

Subject: Re: Tapered Cork Reamer

You can make them by tapering a wooden dowel and gluing rough sandpaperto
itwith contact cement.   You could probably make all three sizes for
$5.50.Ernie

Subject: Tapered Cork ReamerKaufmann's Streamborn Catalog
www.kman.compage 63. They have 3 sizes at $5.50 eachLowell

from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Nov 26 18:05:52 2000

eAR05oG24799

hme0.telusplanet.net

Sun, 26 Nov 2000 17:05:46 -0700

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

"rod 'akers" 

Ed,

You got any idea how hard a material drill rod is. I know that it's rightup
there.

Don

At 12:30 PM 11/24/00 -0800, Ed Hartzell wrote:Tim and Richard,Snake
Brand guides are now made of drill rod acording to MikeMcCoyEdtimothy
troester wrote:

richard, i don't know if tungsten is heavy or lite butsnakebrand guides weigh
almost nithing.  timothy

--- Richard Nantel wrote:I noticed that Snake Brand guides are made
oftungsten. Correct me if I'mwrong but tungsten is quite heavy. Would
theadditional weight of theseguides over steel or stainless steel affect
theaction on the tip or is theweight difference too small?

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:00 PM

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; ListeSubject: Re: Snake
Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brandcame out, andthey just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In anycase, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in theaircraftand many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don'tknow whatalloy it is, butit is
very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicelywhen youheat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Onis Cogburn 

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste

Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:46 AMSubject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available

from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire Iordered
camein a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leadermaterial.  Itworked
well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainlesswire, toresist abrasionwell! This is used in making spinner
blade lures,and isreadily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers. Titanium
wire isalsoavailable, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very well too.

GMA

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sun Nov 26 19:25:35 2000

eAR1PZG25718

RAA02560

Subject: Snake guides, etc.

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a great source for snake guides, tip tops,
strippingguides, etc.. That is, someone who keeps things in stock and ships
quickly.Thanks indeed.:)

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from rmoon@ida.net Sun Nov 26 19:27:25 2000

eAR1ROG25872

0000

Subject: Re: 3 piece node spacing

I agree with you Hank on this issue, but like Tony S.  I always glue my reelseat
on last.  Final job on the rod.Ralph

FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:

Marty et al.,I agree, everything I've bent to destruction broke between the
nodes. Ibelieve Ralph Moon has found the same. This is another case where
"thebook"is in error, I believe.Hank.

from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Nov 26 19:35:40 2000

eAR1ZdG26156

"rod 'akers" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Are you speaking of "drill rod". or "drill blanks" ? Drill blanks areextremely
hard, and will dull a carbide tool quickly. Drill rod is meant tobe either water,
or oil tempered, after machining a part 
from it ! It takesa special tool to machine drill rod with a nice finish ! I think it
wouldbreak if you tried to bend it into a guide shape !

GMA

from sats@gte.net Sun Nov 26 20:01:48 2000

eAR21lG26623

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

To all,I'm old fashioned and glue my cork rings right on the blank with
pliobond, ...Hank.

Hank and all,  this is the way that a graphite rod builder I know (and respect)
does it.   Heglues the cork rings to the blank, but not to each other.   He
compressesthemso that they fit together.  Then he turns the grip to shape.

I've repaired grips. and have used epoxy on most of my work.   I have
usedsomewhite glue between some of the rings in a few limited cases, though
Iprobablywouldn't do it now...

----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old
Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/vzn05zew

from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Nov 26 21:05:24 2000

eAR35IG27620

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness 

You gotta try the Scary Sharp system. Lots cheaper than diamond hones,
et.al. I forget the address, but it's in the archives. Give it some time andsee
if you don't like it. I can't imagine needing anything any sharper.

Jim----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness

I have the 600 and 1200 grit DTM "stones".  Yes after the first
fewsharpenings they feel like they loose their cut, but they have justlost the
points on some of the diamonds.  I don't think its a cloggingthing.  They don't
feel as "sharp" but they will sharpen your toolswell for years (mine have).

I just use water on mine and clean them occasionaly with kitchen cleanserand
a scrub brush.......................................................................Frank Stetzer                        
"...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu                       than a
waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer." 
Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA      "Fisherman's Luck",
1899.

On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, Frank Olivieri wrote:

Does anyone have experience with using DMT diamond bench stones
forsharpening their plane blades? I purchased an 8" 325x/1200x along
witha6"600x. After only a few sharpenings, the 325x side of the stone has
lostitsabrasiveness. Yes, I know that the metal particles 
from the blades canfillin around the diamond crystals and need to be flushed
out. I've triedthiswith a toothbrush and some softscrub, to no avail. :) By the
way, I'mchanging the angle of attack 
from 25 to 30 degrees. It seems that HockandLie Nielson blades come this
way.

Has anyone another way to clean the surface? Thanks indeed

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from wiljette@nmia.com Sun Nov 26 23:51:36 2000

eAR5pZG29964

(Smail-3.2.0.109 1999-Oct-27 #6 built 2000-Oct-18)

Subject: Re: Snake guides, etc.

Frank: Try Angler's Workshop; www.anglersworkshop.com . I have used
thesefolks for the past two years and enjoyed the experience.I suggest
getting acatalog and ordering by phone. No personal financial interest etc.
etc. Justnice people with a lot of great products.

Will----- Original Message -----

Subject: Snake guides, etc.

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a great source for snake guides, tip tops,
strippingguides, etc.. That is, someone who keeps things in stock and
shipsquickly.Thanks indeed.:)

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from danny.twang@pd.no Mon Nov 27 01:06:51 2000

eAR76oG01477

Subject: Re: Cork/glue

Woodworkers white glue for the rings, PU toglue to the blank.danny

from Turbotrk@aol.com Mon Nov 27 02:42:51 2000

eAR8gpG02332

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness 

captvonbek@earthlink.net

--part1_36.e8f491c.27537842_boundary

I personally use the scary sharp method.  Although it has some drawbacks, it
certainly works.  No investment other then the time to do it right.  I use a
collection of five blades per rod.  I use Stanley blades to do the initial
planning. I use 3 hock blades for the final forms. I would still like to see a
simpler method. The fact is, no machine that I have seen can do it as well as
by hand.  A really sharp blade makes life so simple.

One note to all the newbies.  You can really save a ton of time if you learn to
split the cane down to a manageable size.  I cannot tell you how much time I
spent on my first three rods hogging off cane that could have been split so
much more easily.  The vise method works.  Take the time to learn to split
and you will plane much less.  If you plane less you sharpen less.  It is that
simple.   

stuart

--part1_36.e8f491c.27537842_boundary

I personally use the scary sharp method.

planning. I use 3 hock blades for the final forms. I would still like to seea
simpler method. The fact is, no machine that I have seen can do it as

tell you how much time I spent on my first three rods hogging off cane

stuart

--part1_36.e8f491c.27537842_boundary--

from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Nov 27 06:09:44 2000

eARC9cG03723

0000

0000

Organization: ProLog

Subject: Re: which finishes?

Hi Frank, I was using Pratt & Lambert #61 spar (tung oil based) foryears but
recently switched to poly (Pratt & Lambert Varmor). Althoughthe spar
finished very well when new it tended to jell up fast in thedip tube and later
finishes suffered. I even strained the varnishperiodicly. With poly I have not
noticed any of this and it produces agreat finish. For restorations of classic
rods I still use Tung Oil Sparbut for my own rods it's Poly.Marty

Hi all,

I'm considering going with tung-oil finishes for wrapping and finalfinishing.
Any comments and suggestions for brands that are being used?

Also, does anyone have a source for a tapered cork file. Wayne, if
thatgentleman stills makes them, and will ship one, may I have his address?

Thanks indeed,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 27 06:46:54 2000

eARCksG04135

;Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:46:50 +0000

Subject: Re: Node spacing/Thomas & Thomas blanks

CALucker@aol.com wrote:

Those blanks are Amherst Rod Company blanks.  T & T got those
whentheybought the Amherst Rod Company.  They are not worth going
after.Chris Lucker

This is 
from a list member to me. I thought anyone who was interested inthese
should have this knowledge.

Regards, SteveIndependence, MO

from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 27 07:17:31 2000

eARDHVG04581

06:01:30 PST

Subject: Re: Snake guides, etc.

goldenwitch.com, snakeguides.com, rec.com,www.hookhack.com

--- Frank Olivieri  wrote:Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a great source for snakeguides, tip tops,
strippingguides, etc.. That is, someone who keeps things instock and ships
quickly.Thanks indeed.:)

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 27 07:41:38 2000

eARDfbG06377

captvonbek@earthlink.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness 

http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm

Stuart, look into the Tormek. Sharp blades in no time.Bob Maulucci

The fact is, no machine that I have seen can do it as well stuart

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Mon Nov 27 09:26:10 2000

eARFQ9G14649

Subject: Re: building steel forms

Roger,

Hope I'm not too late in responding to this message.  I have been away
fromthe list for a week, and I saw that you only received one response, so
Ithought I would try to help.

I know where you are at with your forms.  I was in the same boat with
mineabout six months ago.  I have just completed my forms (HURRAY!) after
mysecond attempt.  I didn't get the holes perpendicular in my first
attempt,and after a futile attempt to file them to make the surface parallel
to theholes (waste of time) I gave up and just started over.  Considering that
thesteel is so cheap, and that I was going to be filing for a long time, it
wasthe right decision to make.  I was _much_ more careful the second
timearound in drilling the holes.

One thing I'll mention because it might be helpful to you is that I didn'tfollow
Tom's plans to the letter.  The main thing I did differently was todraw file the
top and bottom of the forms _before_ I drilled the holes.  Iguess I was
concerned about those surfaces not being perfectly flat,possibly causing the
holes to be skewed.  I'm not sure if this made adifference on not.  And of
course you run the risk of screwing up the holesand having wasted all that
time filing.  I think that's why Tom steps are inthe order they are.

You should probably check the surface of the forms with a straight
edgebefore you scrap them.  The true test to see if the holes aren't parallel
isif the two sides don't stay flat as the forms are separated (i.e., one
siderides up higher than the other.)  If this is the case, and the amount of
theskewing is unacceptable, then I doubt that reaming the holes is going to
fixthings.  But if you don't see a lot of skew as the forms separate you
mightbe ok.

I'm only speaking 
from my experience here and certainly am no expert on thesubject.  Maybe
some of the other list members can add to what I've said.But I can say I've
been there, done that, and hang in there.  Making steelforms by hand seems
to be the most labor intensive and tedious part ofrodmaking.  Hope this
helps.

Keith

Can someone please help. I've just started building my planing formsusing the
Tom Penrose plans. I'm sure I've failed to get the holesperpendicular because
most of the shoulder bolts rub the hole andrequire a tool to move.Will
reaming the hole fix this or should I start over?

from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Nov 27 10:29:22 2000

eARGTKG17317

Subject: Searching for Parts

Does anyone know where I might locate carbide blades for a Skill 3-1/4"power
plane, marked 96 and a separate marking of ZGQ4?

Skill no longer makes blades for this planer and their distributors onlyhave a
few steel blade remaining.

George Barnes

from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 27 13:59:37 2000

eARJxaG24374

Subject: red cedar 

http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm

Anyone know what happened to Jan Mcmasters and Red Cedar Mfg? I love
thetubesI have been getting 
from them, but I have not heard back 
from them in sometimenow. Can someone help me out?Thanks,Bob
MaulucciReceived: 
from groucho.ctel.net (groucho.ctel.net

eARLIIG29201

Subject: Re: red cedar 

eARLIIG29202

They were purchased by another company, I can't recall the name at
themoment.  I carry the Greenheart tubes, but have also had some
problemgetting stuff 
from them.  They are still located in Wisconsin and the numberis the same. 
They seem to be going through some flux at the moment.

John K.

----- Original Message ----- 

Subject: red cedar 

Anyone know what happened to Jan Mcmasters and Red Cedar Mfg? I lovethe
tubesI have been getting 
from them, but I have not heard back 
from them insome timenow. Can someone help me out?Thanks,Bob Maulucci

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 27 15:49:00 2000

eARLmxG01019

Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:53:51 -0600

Subject: Re: red cedar

Bob,A sad thing, they sold out to either Loomis or Sage, I don't remember
whichone. Italked to Jan in September, all of their tubes will be going to one
of thosecompanies.They were great while it lasted.Tony  
FlyTyr@southshore.com

bob maulucci wrote:

Anyone know what happened to Jan Mcmasters and Red Cedar Mfg? I lovethe
tubesI have been getting 
from them, but I have not heard back 
from them insome timenow. Can someone help me out?Thanks,Bob Maulucci

====================================================================Brought to you by BuffNEThttp://www.buffnet.net

from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 27 17:55:25 2000

eARNtOG05460

Subject: Re: Diamond stone abrasiveness 

--=====================_7010518==_.ALT

Hi Stuart and others who asked about the Tormek machine:It is a Swedish
made waterstone grinder. It also has a leather stroping wheel for honing the
blades razor sharp. I like it a lot. I feel the expense was worth it since I can
easily sharpen other tools very quickly and easily. Here is some info 
from the Garrett Wade site, no financial ties, blah, blah,
blah....http://www.garrettwade.com/index.cfm?goo=10000,10043,10044,10045,10245&cid=1 0245&dop=0

At 06:40 PM 11/27/00 -0500, you wrote:What is your link to tormek.  Is it a
diamond sharpening system or what.

stuart

--=====================_7010518==_.ALT

Hi Stuart and others who asked about the Tormek machine:It is a Swedish
made waterstone grinder. It also has a leather stropingwheel for honing the
blades razor sharp. I like it a lot. I feel theexpense was worth it since I can
easily sharpen other tools very quicklyand easily. Here is some info 
from the Garrett Wade site, no financialties, blah, blah,
blah....http://www.garrettwade.com/index.cfm?goo=10000,10043,10044,10045,10245&cid=10245&dop=0

At 06:40 PM 11/27/00 -0500, you wrote:What

stuart 

--=====================_7010518==_.ALT--

from captvonbek@earthlink.net Mon Nov 27 19:10:28 2000

eAS1ARG07087

RAA03011

Subject: Veritas Power Sharpening System

Hi all,

Has anyone seen this sharpening system 
from Veritas in action? Disk gritsizes 
from 80x all the way to 1200x. Is this not the "scary-sharp" systemwith
power? :)

Regards,

Frank

--- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

from rmcelvain@uswest.net Mon Nov 27 20:32:01 2000

eAS2W0G08763

oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.6.111)

Subject: re: building steel forms

Roger,

I started making my steel forms about a year ago.  The 3/4 inch steel bars
arrived cut in two 6 foot lengths but each was bowed about a half an inch
over the total length.  Using a couple of 2x4s and my 220 lbs I was able to
bounce the bars almost straight.  I used cap screws and dowels rather than
shoulder bolts.  I  have a lot of binding in my forms, my dowels are not loose
even with the screws removed but the forms seem to work very well. 
Clamping the bars together prior to filing and hole drilling insures alignment
but introduces binding on the dowels after the clamps are removed.  I think
binding (ie. being unable to hand tighten the shoulder bolts) will be the norm. 
A way to check for alignment would be use a straight edge across the
surface as the forms are opened and closed and look for misalignment.  But
in my limited experience of making a few rods over the past six months, I
find the forms are not opened very far so misalignment may be a minor
problem.

This lack of straightness of the original bars coupled with bending during two
dimensional clamping prior to filing and drilling is the reason that machine
shops have such a problem with setup and milling of the tapered groove.  It is
amazing but I believe hand scraping and filing is the most accurate way to
make the 60 degree groove, the actual straightness of the form is not
important.

My belated thanks to all the listers who answered my request about 4 weeks
ago for information on Lie Nielsen grooved planes, your help was appreciated. 
I have one on order.

Best regards,  Bob McElvain

from hartzell@easystreet.com Mon Nov 27 22:46:44 2000

eAS4kiG11706

UAA17396;

"rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Don,I think the hardness depends in part on the degree of hardening and
thentempering after forming.  Another complication is that there are two
kindsofdrill rod - water hardening and oil hardening - but I do not know what
eitherone rates on the scale.Ed

Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:

Ed,

You got any idea how hard a material drill rod is. I know that it's rightup
there.

Don

At 12:30 PM 11/24/00 -0800, Ed Hartzell wrote:Tim and Richard,Snake
Brand guides are now made of drill rod acording to MikeMcCoyEdtimothy
troester wrote:

richard, i don't know if tungsten is heavy or lite butsnakebrand guides weigh
almost nithing.  timothy

--- Richard Nantel wrote:I noticed that Snake Brand guides are made
oftungsten. Correct me if I'mwrong but tungsten is quite heavy. Would
theadditional weight of theseguides over steel or stainless steel affect
theaction on the tip or is theweight difference too small?

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:00 PM

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; ListeSubject: Re: Snake
Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brandcame out, andthey just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In anycase, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in theaircraftand many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don'tknow whatalloy it is, butit is
very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicelywhen youheat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Onis Cogburn 

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste

Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:46 AMSubject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available

from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire Iordered
camein a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leadermaterial.  Itworked
well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainlesswire, toresist abrasionwell! This is used in making spinner
blade lures,and isreadily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers. Titanium
wire isalsoavailable, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very well too.

GMA

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from lblan@provide.net Mon Nov 27 22:49:56 2000

eAS4nuG11845

Subject: RE: Snake Guides

Actually, there is an air hardening grade as well, and each type
includesseveral different alloys. There are 20+ grades of drill rod...

Larry Blan

-----Original Message-----

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Don,I think the hardness depends in part on the degree of hardening
andthentempering after forming.  Another complication is that there are two
kindsofdrill rod - water hardening and oil hardening - but I do not know
whateitherone rates on the scale.Ed

Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:

Ed,

You got any idea how hard a material drill rod is. I know that it's rightup
there.

Don

At 12:30 PM 11/24/00 -0800, Ed Hartzell wrote:Tim and Richard,Snake
Brand guides are now made of drill rod acording to MikeMcCoyEdtimothy
troester wrote:

richard, i don't know if tungsten is heavy or lite butsnakebrand guides weigh
almost nithing.  timothy

--- Richard Nantel wrote:I noticed that Snake Brand guides are made
oftungsten. Correct me if I'mwrong but tungsten is quite heavy. Would
theadditional weight of theseguides over steel or stainless steel affect
theaction on the tip or is theweight difference too small?

Richard

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:00 PM

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; ListeSubject: Re: Snake
Guides

I used to make my own snakes until Snake Brandcame out, andthey just
lookso much better than what I used to make.  In anycase, I used to
useStainless Steel "Safety Wire", a wire used in theaircraftand many
otherindustries to tie bolt heads in place.  I don'tknow whatalloy it is, butit is
very flexible and as Onis said, blues nicelywhen youheat it with apropane
torch.Later,Bob

-----Original Message-----From: Onis Cogburn 

Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de;richard.nantel@videotron.ca; Liste

Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:46 AMSubject: Re: Snake Guides

Several sizes of stainless wire are available

from Small Parts Inc.(www.smallparts.com) in 30' rolls.  The wire Iordered
camein a packagethat identified it as marine fishing leadermaterial.  Itworked
well andwill blue with a torch.

Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com

At 10:15 AM 11/22/00 -0600, nobler wrote:I'd think guides would need
tempered stainlesswire, toresist abrasionwell! This is used in making spinner
blade lures,and isreadily availablefromsuch lure making suppliers. Titanium
wire isalsoavailable, and tho' moreexpensive, should serve very well too.

GMA

====="Gooda' morning mister bear"

__________________________________________________Do You
Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.http://shopping.yahoo.com/

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html

from hartzell@easystreet.com Mon Nov 27 22:53:26 2000

eAS4rPG12045

UAA20867;

richard.nantel@videotron.ca, "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Richard,I am not sure, but I think drill rod is annealed as you buy iy.  I
usewater hardening and have been able to machine it on my small lathe.  I
havealso made cutting tools 
from it by hardening after shaping.  I have not triedbending as much as would
be required for guides, but in the small diametersused there, I think it couild
be bent before hardening.Ed Hartzell

nobler wrote:

Are you speaking of "drill rod". or "drill blanks" ? Drill blanks areextremely
hard, and will dull a carbide tool quickly. Drill rod is meant tobe either water,
or oil tempered, after machining a part 
from it ! It takesa special tool to machine drill rod with a nice finish ! I think it
wouldbreak if you tried to bend it into a guide shape !

GMA

from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Nov 28 05:48:26 2000

eASBmPG16393

Subject: Re: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

If you don't have something flat enough like the medicine cabinet door, trya
12" square piece of 3/8" or 1/2" thick glass. Use the 3M spray
adhesivemeant for sticking abrasives to discs. Use denatured alcohol to
clean up anyextra adhesive as it will promote clogging your paper.

Jim

----- Original Message -----

Subject: RE: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

Frank,I went to my local hardware store and picked up all the grits 
from 150 toabout 600 (they're cheaper there than the next supplier) and
thenproceededto an auto-collision-shop supplier and bought 
from 500 or 600 down to2000grit. I bought about 3-4 sheets of the 8X10
hardware stuff and about 6sheets of the more expensive spread (which also
shrinks down to 4X8sheetswhen it gets finer, further raising the price),
mainly because the autoplace is father 
from home. I cut the stuff into 2 1/2 - 3" wide strips, 8"long, temp-glue it to
a medicine cabinet mirror door ( often I justmasking-tape them down, but the
WD 40 I use as a lubricant will softenthatpretty quickly and then you have to
hold them with your fingers) and runthe blade over successive grits til I'm
happy.The 1500 and 2000 grits seem to do very little beyond the others
andtherefore don't get used much. I have a Sears hinged blade guide which
Ilocked up with pliers so it always holds the blade at the same angle (seeChris
Bogart's site for the gauge to affix the blades repetitively) and Irun all 6
blades through the system each time I run out of the sharpness Ineed.It's a
pleasure to use, cheap, and with multiples planes to sharpen atonce, darn
near takes the annoyance out of honing! As far as comparinggrits, Japan-to-
US, sorry, I just wasted your time!;^)I assume you know enough to flatten
the back of the blade beforeattempting any real razor-edges.Have fun!Art

At 09:04 AM 11/26/2000 -0500, Frank W. Paul wrote:Hi Folks:

Well I am in need of some information 
from the very knowledgable list.  Iam preparing to pursue either using the
abrasive sheet "scary" system orwater/diamond stones for sharpening plane
blades. Well in reviewing theWoodcraft November catalog I find that the US
and Japan apparently usetwodifferent definitions for the abrasive grit. For
example:  240 US vs 280Japan; 500 US vs 1000 Japan; and etc.  Well when I
read the Cattanchbookthat talks about 1000/6000 waterstone I assume this
is based on theJapangrit system - is this correct? So this would mean that if
I were going touse the US abrasive system (scary sharp) then I would be
thinking of 500grit US abrasive paper - is that correct? I would like some of
theexpertsto fill me in on what they know about the different abrasive
gritnomenclatures so that I can move forward with what direction I
initiallydecide to take for sharpening plane blades.

Thanks in advance for all you input.

Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and Rod2932 North Bayshore
DriveSeneca, SC  29672

Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570-753-
8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net
(home); 864-882-0077

from dnorl@uswest.net Tue Nov 28 07:05:32 2000

eASD5VG17017

0000

(63.228.6.221)

"    " , "        " ,"    " 

Subject: Re: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

-----Original Message-----

anglport@con2.com; oakmere@carol.net ;rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu 

Subject: Re: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

I dont glue my paper to the glass. I hold the sheet to the glass with onehand. I
only use about an inch on the bottom fo the sheet while sharpening.When it is
used up I trim it off with a razor blade and straight edge andbegin anew. I get
my sandpaper  in all grades up to the micron grit fromAbrasive Resource for
about 35 cents a sheet. Phone 1-800-814-7358  NoInterest etc.Dave-----
Original Message-----From: Jim & Sallyann Freeman 

; rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu

Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:53 AMSubject: Re: Comparison of Grit
Types for Japan and US Abrasives

If you don't have something flat enough like the medicine cabinet door,trya
12" square piece of 3/8" or 1/2" thick glass. Use the 3M spray
adhesivemeant for sticking abrasives to discs. Use denatured alcohol to
clean upanyextra adhesive as it will promote clogging your paper.

Jim

----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" 

Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 8:02 AMSubject: RE: Comparison of Grit
Types for Japan and US Abrasives

Frank,I went to my local hardware store and picked up all the grits 
from 150toabout 600 (they're cheaper there than the next supplier) and
thenproceededto an auto-collision-shop supplier and bought 
from 500 or 600 down to2000grit. I bought about 3-4 sheets of the 8X10
hardware stuff and about 6sheets of the more expensive spread (which also
shrinks down to 4X8sheetswhen it gets finer, further raising the price),
mainly because the autoplace is father 
from home. I cut the stuff into 2 1/2 - 3" wide strips,8"long, temp-glue it to
a medicine cabinet mirror door ( often I justmasking-tape them down, but the
WD 40 I use as a lubricant will softenthatpretty quickly and then you have to
hold them with your fingers) and runthe blade over successive grits til I'm
happy.The 1500 and 2000 grits seem to do very little beyond the others
andtherefore don't get used much. I have a Sears hinged blade guide which
Ilocked up with pliers so it always holds the blade at the same angle(seeChris
Bogart's site for the gauge to affix the blades repetitively) andIrun all 6
blades through the system each time I run out of the sharpnessIneed.It's a
pleasure to use, cheap, and with multiples planes to sharpen atonce, darn
near takes the annoyance out of honing! As far as comparinggrits, Japan-to-
US, sorry, I just wasted your time!;^)I assume you know enough to flatten
the back of the blade beforeattempting any real razor-edges.Have fun!Art

At 09:04 AM 11/26/2000 -0500, Frank W. Paul wrote:Hi Folks:

Well I am in need of some information 
from the very knowledgable list.Iam preparing to pursue either using the
abrasive sheet "scary" systemorwater/diamond stones for sharpening plane
blades. Well in reviewingtheWoodcraft November catalog I find that the US
and Japan apparentlyusetwodifferent definitions for the abrasive grit. For
example:  240 US vs280Japan; 500 US vs 1000 Japan; and etc.  Well when I
read the Cattanchbookthat talks about 1000/6000 waterstone I assume this
is based on theJapangrit system - is this correct? So this would mean that if
I were goingtouse the US abrasive system (scary sharp) then I would be
thinking of500grit US abrasive paper - is that correct? I would like some of
theexpertsto fill me in on what they know about the different abrasive
gritnomenclatures so that I can move forward with what direction
Iinitiallydecide to take for sharpening plane blades.

Thanks in advance for all you input.

Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and Rod2932 North Bayshore
DriveSeneca, SC  29672

Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA;570-753-
8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net
(home); 864-882-0077

from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Nov 28 08:19:14 2000

eASEJDG18462

GAA22188

(5.5.2650.21)

"'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US
Abrasives

I found the best lube for either Arkansas stones or wet and dry sand paperis
mineral oil and paint thinner. It's a whole lot cheaper than sharpening fluidor
WD40 and you can get mineral oil 
from Safeway. Give a little bit of it atry, it seems to be what Norton
sharpening oil is. I mix it about 50/50 andkeep it in a little plastic squirt
bottle.

Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax:     
425-237-0083M-2112         M/C 61-79

----------

Sent:         Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:20 AM

Subject:      Re: Comparison of Grit Types for Japan and US Abrasives

-----Original Message-----From: Dolly Norling 

anglport@con2.com; oakmere@carol.net ;rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Date:
Tuesday, November 28, 2000 6:46 AMSubject: Re: Comparison of Grit Types
for Japan and US Abrasives

I dont glue my paper to the glass. I hold the sheet to the glass with onehand. I
only use about an inch on the bottom fo the sheet whilesharpening.When it is
used up I trim it off with a razor blade and straight edge andbegin anew. I get
my sandpaper  in all grades up to the micron grit fromAbrasive Resource for
about 35 cents a sheet. Phone 1-800-814-7358 NoInterest etc.Dave-----
Original Message-----From: Jim & Sallyann Freeman 

; rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu

Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:53 AMSubject: Re: Comparison of Grit
Types for Japan and US Abrasives

If you don't have something flat enough like the medicine cabinet door,trya
12" square piece of 3/8" or 1/2" thick glass. Use the 3M
sprayadhesivemeant for sticking abrasives to discs. Use denatured alcohol
to clean upanyextra adhesive as it will promote clogging your paper.

Jim

----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" 

Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 8:02 AMSubject: RE: Comparison of Grit
Types for Japan and US Abrasives

Frank,I went to my local hardware store and picked up all the grits 
from 150toabout 600 (they're cheaper there than the next supplier) and
thenproceededto an auto-collision-shop supplier and bought 
from 500 or 600 down to2000grit. I bought about 3-4 sheets of the 8X10
hardware stuff and about6sheets of the more expensive spread (which also
shrinks down to 4X8sheetswhen it gets finer, further raising the price),
mainly because the autoplace is father 
from home. I cut the stuff into 2 1/2 - 3" wide strips,8"long, temp-glue it to
a medicine cabinet mirror door ( often I justmasking-tape them down, but the
WD 40 I use as a lubricant willsoftenthatpretty quickly and then you have to
hold them with your fingers) andrunthe blade over successive grits til I'm
happy.The 1500 and 2000 grits seem to do very little beyond the others
andtherefore don't get used much. I have a Sears hinged blade guide
whichIlocked up with pliers so it always holds the blade at the same
angle(seeChris Bogart's site for the gauge to affix the blades repetitively)
andIrun all 6 blades through the system each time I run out of
thesharpnessIneed.It's a pleasure to use, cheap, and with multiples planes to
sharpen atonce, darn near takes the annoyance out of honing! As far
ascomparinggrits, Japan-to-US, sorry, I just wasted your time!;^)> I assume
you know enough to flatten the back of the blade beforeattempting any real
razor-edges.Have fun!Art

At 09:04 AM 11/26/2000 -0500, Frank W. Paul wrote:Hi Folks:

Well I am in need of some information 
from the very knowledgablelist.Iam preparing to pursue either using the
abrasive sheet "scary"systemorwater/diamond stones for sharpening plane
blades. Well in reviewingtheWoodcraft November catalog I find that the US
and Japan apparentlyusetwodifferent definitions for the abrasive grit. For
example:  240 US vs280Japan; 500 US vs 1000 Japan; and etc.  Well when I
read theCattanchbookthat talks about 1000/6000 waterstone I assume this
is based ontheJapangrit system - is this correct? So this would mean that if I
were goingtouse the US abrasive system (scary sharp) then I would be
thinking of500grit US abrasive paper - is that correct? I would like some of
theexpertsto fill me in on what they know about the different abrasive
gritnomenclatures so that I can move forward with what direction
Iinitiallydecide to take for sharpening plane blades.

Thanks in advance for all you input.

Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and Rod2932 North Bayshore
DriveSeneca, SC  29672

Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA;570-753-
8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net
(home); 864-882-0077

from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 28 09:23:00 2000

[24.93.35.211] (may be forged))

eASFMxG21174

Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:18:41 -0600

, "rod 'akers" 

Subject: Re: Snake Guides

Yes, it can be hardened easily after forming, but I've never seen eithertype
available below 1/16" in dia. ! The spring tempered stainless wirewould make
a far better guide, and it comes in many small diameters.

GMA

from jfoster@gte.net Tue Nov 28 11:00:59 2000

eASH0wG24662

Subject: hi

creator="4D4F5353"

Chuck Irvine, could you send me your snail mail address.

sorry group.

regards

jerry

from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Nov 28 11:37:44 2000

eASHbhG25868

(5.5.2448.0)

Subject: FW: kevin calloway

If kevin calloway is on the list, or anyone has his e-mail address,
pleaseforward the address.I need to talk to him regarding the upcoming
troutdale 2001 gathering.

Christopher obuchowski

from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Nov 28 13:38:54 2000

eASJcrG00049

(5.5.2448.0)

Subject: troutdale 2001

As many of you have recently heard, it's time to organize the troutdale
2001rodmakers gathering.We're shooting for april or may.  If anyone has
ideas or subjects that theywould like to have addressed (splitting, varnishing,
flaming/tempering,mills/bevelers, etc.), please let me and kevin calloway
know.  We're tryingto organize an agenda of topics, and anyone interested in
presenting.

As things develop, I'll keep the list informed.

chris

from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 28 14:22:55 2000

eASKMsG01908

Subject: Hazel Creek Rod Company

--------------4D6785E9531A28A85D127D94

Folks,A friend of mine is trying to get some information on arod made by
Hazel Creek Rod Company in South Carolina.He writes:

I know almost nothing about the rod except that it wasgiven to a friend who
told him it was made by a reclusive builder inSouth Carolina who is not well
known outside of the South. The appearanceofthe rod is a little unusual in
that it shows very pronounced (although veryeven) dark glue lines, much like
some Phillipson rods I've seen. The rod isa fine casting 2-piece 4-weight, 7' 2"
in length with two tips, but the onlymarkings on it are the inscription "Hazel
Creek Rod Company" and "94-05"onthe butt section and both tips
(suggesting that it was the fifth rod builtin 1994). The overall workmanship
is and quality of the components used isgood but not outstanding - this looks
like an honest fishing tool. I'd liketo learn more about the background of this
rod and its maker.

Have you ever heard of this company?

Can any of you folks help him out?  If so, please sendthe information to me
and to "Edward Rea".

Thanks,Harry

--------------4D6785E9531A28A85D127D94

Folks,

on a rod made by Hazel Creek Rod Company in South Carolina.

South Carolina who is not well known outside of the South. The appearance

the rod is a little unusual in that it shows very pronounced (although

even) dark glue lines, much like some Phillipson rods I've seen. The rod

a fine casting 2-piece 4-weight, 7' 2" in length with two tips, but the

markings on it are the inscription "Hazel Creek Rod Company" and "94-05"

the butt section and both tips (suggesting that it was the fifth rod

in 1994). The overall workmanship is and quality of the components used

to learn more about the background of this rod and its maker.

Have you ever heard of this company?

please send the information to me and to "Edward
Rea"<edward_rea@hotmail.com>.

--------------4D6785E9531A28A85D127D94--

from oakmere@carol.net Tue Nov 28 18:35:22 2000

eAT0ZLG09624

Subject: RE: Sharping Plane Blades

Hi Folks:

Thank you for all the advice. I have started to do some preliminary work
onblade sharpening with the abrasive sheet material. I think this approach
isgoing to work for my initial effort. I am fortunate to have for my shop
alarge (approximately 30 inch x 60 inch) piece of marble 
from an olddresser. It is about 3/4 of an inch thick and flat. This is doing
nicely asa work surface to sharpen blades and work on rods and stuff in
myworkshop. 

I appreciate all the input on the grit sizes and suggestions for
sharpeningblades. Thanks again.

Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and Rod2932 North Bayshore
DriveSeneca, SC  29672

Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570-753-
8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net
(home); 864-882-0077

from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Nov 28 19:32:09 2000

eAT1W8G10831

with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:34:50 -0800

Subject: Hot Press node straightener

eAT1W8G10832

I'm going on memory so if I've got this all screwed up just let me know. Ayear
or two ago someone was selling a rodmakers equipment.  I think hername was
Lori Ahrends and her father or grandfather was the rodmaker. Anyway, they
had a website with some pictures that showed some kind ofiron/steel press
for straightening strips/nodes or something. I recall it waswired as if to heat
the steel up to I would assume the plastic point forbamboo.  Does anyone
remember what that was, how it worked, if it worked? I could be all wrong on
my assumptions about the picture I saw.  Chris.

from dickay@alltel.net Tue Nov 28 20:04:03 2000

eAT242G11508

srv.alltel.net

Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:04:00 -0600

Subject: Re: Hot Press node straightener

Chris,  I had saved a couple of those E-Mails because I was amazed at
theinventory.  Here is an excerpt 
from one of them that I feel answers yourquestions.

Thanks to Brian Thoman, the machines are still pictured
atwww.bambooflyrods.com/arend/mill.jpg and straightener.jpg,
andstraightenerside.jpg.

Remember, you can contact me at llohman@juno.com or at 303-794-3827.

Lori

AREND ROD SHOP

Dick & Kathy Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net

If people concentrated on the reallyimportant things in life, there'd be
ashortage of fishing poles.Doug Larson----- Original Message -----

Subject: Hot Press node straightener

I'm going on memory so if I've got this all screwed up just let me know. Ayear
or two ago someone was selling a rodmakers equipment.  I think hernamewas
Lori Ahrends and her father or grandfather was the rodmaker.  Anyway,they
had a website with some pictures that showed some kind of iron/steelpress
for straightening strips/nodes or something. I recall it was wired asif to heat
the steel up to I would assume the plastic point for bamboo.Does anyone
remember what that was, how it worked, if it worked?  I couldbeall wrong on
my assumptions about the picture I saw.  Chris.

from cathcreek@hotmail.com Tue Nov 28 20:55:48 2000

eAT2tlG12559

Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:55:44 -0800

Wed, 29 Nov 2000 02:55:44 GMT

Subject: Re: Hot Press node straightener

FILETIME=[DE012620:01C059AF]

Chris, I remember that too.  I thought it used steam or something to heat,
but I also could be wrong.  I have been thinking for some time if there was a
way to do that and to build a press that somehow both compresses and
straigtens in one motion, but I am at a loss.

Rob

From: "Christopher McDowell" 

Subject: Hot Press node straightenerDate: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:34:46 -
0800

I'm going on memory so if I've got this all screwed up just let me know. A
year or two ago someone was selling a rodmakers equipment.  I think her
name was Lori Ahrends and her father or grandfather was the rodmaker. 
Anyway, they had a website with some pictures that showed some kind of
iron/steel press for straightening strips/nodes or something. I recall it was
wired as if to heat the steel up to I would assume the plastic point 

worked?  I could be all wrong on my assumptions about the picture I saw. 
Chris.

_____________________________________________________________________________________Get more 
from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :http://explorer.msn.com

from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Tue Nov 28 21:54:32 2000

eAT3sUG21099

Subject: guide spacing

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0598D.904CFFC0

This the guide spacing chart that Dawn Holbrook used in the many years =of
rodmaking and teaching that he did.

Patrick W. Coffey