eBQF9Ia20299 Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:09:18 -0500 "zimmer@adams.net" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963552=_=_=_ Randy I know one closet Bait Fisherman that is on the list that probably really would appreciate these gifts. Maybe he will contactyou off line and work a deal - there is hope! Chris ginal Message Text--- A pottery Toad House, "with proper ventilation", and a large bullfrog caller.Honest! ---------------------------------------------------------------------Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963552=_=_=_ Randy I know one closet Bait Fisherman that is on the list that probably really would appreciate these gifts. Maybe he will contactyou off line and work a deal - there is hope! Chris ginal Message Text---From: Randy ZimmermanDate: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 06:30:21 -0600 A pottery Toad House, "with proper ventilation", and a largebullfrog caller. Honest! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963552=_=_=_-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Dec 26 09:13:42 2000 eBQFDfa20563 Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:13:37 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Wild and wackiest was a fish skeleton wind chime made of bronze, it is aawesome gift though. Iwanted a tattoo to match but maybe for my birthday! By far my best gift isbeing home with myfamily again and having a new job that I love!Fortunately, I didn't get any of those singing fish, the kids have enough ofthose annoying,singing/clapping/dancing/tickling toys to drive anyone to drinking!Might have enough money gifts to get one of those Golden witch rodwrappers finally :^) ifmy wife doesn't convince me to spend it on something more "practical" like anew stove :^(Shawn Chris Bogart wrote: To All Again this year we conduct our annual survey to see what wild andwackygifts our loved ones gave their "fishing / rodmaker" loved one. Really nicepresentslike a Lie Nielsen plane, Ballan Fly Reel, or Wagner planing form do notcount. Weare looking at the other end of the spectrum from the trout socks / tiesto ceramic fishingbaskets designed to hold candy (last year gift from sister-in-law). This year I escaped pretty good - only the perfunctory coffee mugwith fishand fly motif (the flies did not match the fish displayed - but what the heckit wasthe thought that counted) and a letter opener with a fish handle - it couldpass fora trout but . . . So it is time to hear from you all and share those really special giftsand knowyou are not alone out there. Chris from jerryy@webtv.net Tue Dec 26 09:19:04 2000 eBQFJ3a20910 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA04752; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 07:19:00 - ETAtAhUAwM0TfFgI6sPXlSJtFOnGiX7KXNMCFFrMRnDHAMHOGkxBmquy2q3bAxkO Subject: Annual Xmas Present Survey Santa brought the Quad and Penta cutter heads for the Morgan Hand millthat I bought last year and NEVER thought I would want those cutters.Lesson learned: Never say never. Jerry from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 26 09:47:18 2000 eBQFlHa21680 Subject: Re: Boy, Chris, I hope you never get anything on me. You've got the memory ofan elephant! 8^)Art At 10:08 AM 12/26/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote:Randy I know one closet Bait Fisherman that is on the list that probably really would appreciate these gifts. Maybe he will contactyou off line and work a deal - there is hope! Chris ginal Message Text---From: Randy ZimmermanDate: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 06:30:21 -0600 A pottery Toad House, "with proper ventilation", and a large bullfrogcaller. Honest! ---------------------------------------------------------------------Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Dec 26 09:49:08 2000 eBQFn7a21858 2000 10:48:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Best wishes at Christmas Harry, Thanks for all you have done this past year. I hope for many more good years to come. Mark Cole from dati@selway.umt.edu Tue Dec 26 10:55:26 2000 eBQGtQa23356 Subject: rod I.D. Hello all, I know of a rod that is need of repair and wanted to know if any ofyou could help me identify it? It is 8.5 - 9' three piece two tip. Therod is blonde and at one point had intermediate wraps, now it just hastape holding most of the guides. The reel seat is an alluminum downlocking slide band. The cork handle is not made of rings, rather sheetcork and is cigar shaped. I don't think the ferrules are nickle silver,they are pinned and have two grooved decorative lines near thebase. The tip tops are not curved but straight off the top of thetips. The rod is also conained in a round wooden holder with slots to fiteach section which are held in place by a couple of strings.The node spacing is weird, near the grip the nodes are all together andbut the next set is offset about 3 inches from each other. It looks likeit might have glue lines between the sections but I am not sure. There are absolutely no markings on the rod that I can see or the woodenhoder to identify the maker. Thanks for your help and I hope you all had a Merry Christmas and that thenew year is properous and full of happiness. Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 26 16:46:38 2000 eBQMkba29361 Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:46:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Taper Problems Chad,Great last name, by the way! We may be relatives. One warning for all who use the v-block's (Waara and otherwise); youmust be especially careful when doing your measuring to keep your trianglesat 60*. The geometry of the tool allows you to get sloppy if you aren'tcareful. The result is big glue lines. Guess how I learned that! Harry Amy & Chad wrote: Hope everyone had a great Christmas and best wishes for the New Year! Inthe unique gift category, I got a pair of boxers with various flyfishing- related designs in the fabric. Just finsished sanding the glue off my first rod. Turned out great.Straightening was needed but nothing too bad, flats are within 1 to 3thousands of each other, and glue lines are not a problem. The onlyhitch is that with the exception of the tip station of the tip section,all diameters are about 5 thousands bigger than they should be. Icarefully measured strips after final planing and all measured correctly(yes I remembered to plan the pith apex before bundling the strips). Thesame calipers were used for all measurements and I double checked mydivision and the forms were set correctly. Obviously I made a mistakesomewhere along the way but I can't figure out what that was. Any ideas? The taper is a PY midge. I'm not set on 6'3" rod length but I would likethe rod to be a 4 wt. With this in mind, would it be a good idea tolengthen the taper by 3 inches (i.e. given that my stations are 5thousands over dimension)? My sections were made 5 inches longer thanneed be so this wouldn't be a problem. Any thoughts would be greatlyappreciated. Thank you in advance for your help, Chad S. Boyd --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Dec 26 17:07:12 2000 eBQN7Ca29820 Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:07:04 -0500 "fbcwin@3g.quik.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Taper Problems Harry / Chad Harry bring up a point that is missed by most new rodmakers, thefinal rod is the sum of a number of steps and processes - there may not be just one thing you have done wrong but a culmination of a couple of things -in this case angles and measurements plus ?? that we cannot see. We cannot check your forms or equipment or watch your technique - so therewill not be a simple answer except build more rods and watch otherrodmakersat work and learn from them. Remember that rodmaking is an art and some of it is just intuitivein nature - you just know what the "right" thing to do is. If is was paint bynumbers - then you would get a paint by numbers result - no talent required. It is best to pay your dues and learn as you go - every 1 % learned goesa long way to mastering the art of bamboo fly rod making. Also on thepositive side -despite your best efforts otherwise - this rod may just cast wonderfully andcatchfish! Chris On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:45:18 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Chad,Great last name, by the way! We may be relatives. One warning for all who use the v-block's (Waara and otherwise); youmust be especially careful when doing your measuring to keep yourtrianglesat 60*. The geometry of the tool allows you to get sloppy if you aren'tcareful. The result is big glue lines. Guess how I learned that! Harry Amy & Chad wrote: Hope everyone had a great Christmas and best wishes for the New Year!Inthe unique gift category, I got a pair of boxers with various flyfishing-related designs in the fabric. Just finsished sanding the glue off my first rod. Turned out great.Straightening was needed but nothing too bad, flats are within 1 to 3thousands of each other, and glue lines are not a problem. The onlyhitch is that with the exception of the tip station of the tip section,all diameters are about 5 thousands bigger than they should be. Icarefully measured strips after final planing and all measured correctly(yes I remembered to plan the pith apex before bundling the strips). Thesame calipers were used for all measurements and I double checked mydivision and the forms were set correctly. Obviously I made a mistakesomewhere along the way but I can't figure out what that was. Any ideas? The taper is a PY midge. I'm not set on 6'3" rod length but I would likethe rod to be a 4 wt. With this in mind, would it be a good idea tolengthen the taper by 3 inches (i.e. given that my stations are 5thousands over dimension)? My sections were made 5 inches longer thanneed be so this wouldn't be a problem. Any thoughts would be greatlyappreciated. Thank you in advance for your help, Chad S. Boyd --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Tue Dec 26 19:48:15 2000 eBR1mEa01418 Subject: Help Charles Neuner, are you out there? I need to get a hold of you. Thanks to anyone who could forward me his e-mail.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from timklein@uswest.net Tue Dec 26 20:34:05 2000 eBR2Y4a02062 (63.225.241.119) Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Ditto on Travis trout - but at least it was intended as a gag. I also got a very nice Woolrich shirt with a fishing motif from my 5 yearold daughter, and a signed copy of Gierach's "Good Flies" from my 7 year oldson. (Now I just have to get Travis the Trout out of the reach of the kids hands.I swear if I have to hear "Don't Rock the Boat" one more time...) ---Tim Travis Trout for me.... Dennis from jonandkris@rcn.com Tue Dec 26 21:20:49 2000 eBR3Kma02760 ([208.58.249.234] helo=kj) Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Santa Billy Bass graced my lap amidst a torn pile of wrapping paper, much tothe dismay of my wife and pleasure to the rest of the room. I breathed asigh of relief- someone had finally given me one of those silly talkingfish. I could now sleep peacefully, knowing my family had come through forme. It's not that I really wanted one(the novelty wears before you get thething to the cash register), but had come to wonder why my family, theKings/Queens of the gag gift, had failed to scoop them up for me. My firstimpression of Billy, was that every member of my family, immediate andextended, would insist on giving me one, being the family fisherman, andall. It was almost a let down to not get one! But, Alas... Fortunately, though, it is of the Santa variety, so it has a built-in excuseto right to the attic when the tree comes down! On another note-my wonderful wife gave me a fantastic Barbour waxedcottonjacket, and stitched leather reel case. The greatest gift, tho, was theability to bring the family together for another awesome gathering andfeast! Happy New Year, Everyone!!----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Ditto on Travis trout - but at least it was intended as a gag. I also got a very nice Woolrich shirt with a fishing motif from my 5 yearold daughter, and a signed copy of Gierach's "Good Flies" from my 7 yearoldson. (Now I just have to get Travis the Trout out of the reach of the kidshands.I swear if I have to hear "Don't Rock the Boat" one more time...) ---Tim Travis Trout for me.... Dennis from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Dec 26 22:49:59 2000 eBR4nwa03516 Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey I got the best gift a new dad could want. I got to watch my 1 year olddaughter enjoy her first Christmas. My material gift that is mostfitting is a new pair of sunglasses, as I had Lasix surgery in October.Having 20/15 vision in both eyes after years of prescription glasses isreally cool. First pair of non prescript sunglasses I have had in manyyears. Happy New Years to all, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from dr.matro@airmail.net Tue Dec 26 23:24:37 2000 eBR5Oaa03961 sender: sender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Round trip airfare and 4 nights lodging in Steamboat Springs in lateJanuary for 2. Now if I can just unload these lift tickets... Ken Cole from Canerods@aol.com Wed Dec 27 08:47:59 2000 eBRElxa08643 Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey --part1_27.f51a588.277b5b03_boundary All, A calendar with a different fish for each month of the year - most are chasing casting plugs. Plus a cloth fish that vibrates when the string is pulled (the cats like it!) that came with a pair of fingerless insolated fishing gloves. (both where in the same box asa $15.00 exchange present from the FF club's Xmas party) No Billy the Bass etc. Don Burns --part1_27.f51a588.277b5b03_boundary All, A calendar with a different fish for each month of the year - most arechasing casting plugs. Plus a cloth fish that vibrates when the string is pulled (the cats like it!)that came with a pair of fingerless insolated fishing gloves. (both wherein the same box asa $15.00 exchange present from the FF club's Xmasparty) No Billy the Bass etc. Don Burns --part1_27.f51a588.277b5b03_boundary-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Dec 27 10:46:20 2000 eBRGkJa11786 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:36:15 -0600 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Orvis rod information? PHY never did anything for Orvis, and in general had no use for impregnatedcane of any kind ! Orvis did make a Midge style, in a 1 -pc., in the '50's. GMA from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Dec 27 12:11:15 2000 eBRIBEa13555 Subject: Fw: Annual Xmas Present Survey I got Travis as well.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Ditto on Travis trout - but at least it was intended as a gag. I also got a very nice Woolrich shirt with a fishing motif from my 5 yearold daughter, and a signed copy of Gierach's "Good Flies" from my 7 yearoldson. (Now I just have to get Travis the Trout out of the reach of the kidshands.I swear if I have to hear "Don't Rock the Boat" one more time...) ---Tim Travis Trout for me.... Dennis from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Dec 27 12:44:15 2000 eBRIiEa14875 Subject: Annual Christmas survey Organization: GOULD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C06FF1.CEDC00E0 Hello to all,Here's one that I haven't seen mentioned before. It's a push button =telephone the handset of which is shaped and painted to look like a =trout. In that way should we be talking on the phone, if I say I'm =conversing with you by by of a trout, you'll understand what I mean! =Besides that, it is indeed an outrageous looking appliance!! Best wishes =a a very happy holiday season to you all!Ray Gould (the guy with the trout phone) ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C06FF1.CEDC00E0 Hello to all,Here's one that I haven't seen = It's a push button telephone the handset of which is shaped and painted = like a trout. In that way should we be talking on the phone, if I say = conversing with you by by of a trout, you'll understand what I mean! = that, it is indeed an outrageous looking appliance!! Best wishes a a = holiday season to you all! phone) ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C06FF1.CEDC00E0-- from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 27 14:48:03 2000 eBRKm3a18272 (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where do theysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell this stuff -But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts other thanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Dec 27 15:24:10 2000 eBRLO9a19393 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:24:02 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Ahh,we have a late entry from my parents..... the classic string of basschristmas lights!What bait chucker fisherman comes up with these ideas??? Shawn Chris Bogart wrote: To All Again this year we conduct our annual survey to see what wild andwackygifts our loved ones gave their "fishing / rodmaker" loved one. Really nicepresentslike a Lie Nielsen plane, Ballan Fly Reel, or Wagner planing form do notcount. Weare looking at the other end of the spectrum from the trout socks / tiesto ceramic fishingbaskets designed to hold candy (last year gift from sister-in-law). This year I escaped pretty good - only the perfunctory coffee mugwith fishand fly motif (the flies did not match the fish displayed - but what the heckit wasthe thought that counted) and a letter opener with a fish handle - it couldpass fora trout but . . . So it is time to hear from you all and share those really special giftsand knowyou are not alone out there. Chris from hartzell@easystreet.com Wed Dec 27 15:34:23 2000 eBRLYNa19736 NAA06820 Subject: Rod ID Does anyone know anything about a rod with "Kennebago" stamped on thereel seat which is a full nickel silver sliding band down locking one?The rod is a thre piece, one tip one with b/w jasper wraps tipped red.Good looking machined ferrules (N.S.) Random node spacing. Rod looksas though it may have been lightly flamed. I doubt that it isCalcutta. It came with two other rods, one of which was made by TommyBrayshaw, so there may be a Canadian connectionEd Hartzell from anglport@con2.com Wed Dec 27 16:27:01 2000 eBRMR0a21268 "rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts other thanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from oakmere@carol.net Wed Dec 27 16:33:32 2000 eBRMXVa21563 Subject: RE: Christmas Gifts Hi Folks: Well I received several shirts with fishing motif and a couple of treeornaments of fishing origin. Best has been the opportunity to add to mytools for rod making which I purchased for my own Christmas presents. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and Rod2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672 Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Rt 44, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 27 16:54:59 2000 eBRMswa22139 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:54:44 -0500 "rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Dec 27 17:26:21 2000 eBRNQLa22857 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: payne 71 Taper Can anyone who has built and cast this rod or rod taper please tell me howyou liked this one and it's characteristics? Thanks, Darrell from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed Dec 27 17:36:10 2000 eBRNa9a23154 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Chris: I'll take 3 of them one in small, and two in xxl Joe ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Dec 27 17:37:51 2000 eBRNboa23270 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:37:47 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Rod ID Ed,I don't know if this is useful or not but Kennebago is a fly fishingonly river/lake in western Maine. Perhaps it was a rental rod at one ofthe camps there or maybe it was a series by a rod maker in Maine??Also, is the rod made by Tommy Brayshaw, for Tommy Brayshaw or madebya company as a signature series? I would be interested to hear what youfind out? I have a friend who is a little more adept at collectable rod him. Sorry I couldn't be of more help ,Shawn Ed Hartzell wrote: Does anyone know anything about a rod with "Kennebago" stamped on thereel seat which is a full nickel silver sliding band down locking one?The rod is a thre piece, one tip one with b/w jasper wraps tipped red.Good looking machined ferrules (N.S.) Random node spacing. Rod looksas though it may have been lightly flamed. I doubt that it isCalcutta. It came with two other rods, one of which was made by TommyBrayshaw, so there may be a Canadian connectionEd Hartzell from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 27 17:40:30 2000 eBRNeTa23459 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:40:14 -0500 "Bamboo Joe" ,"rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Joe I knew you would like it - I got to find a silk screener and I will be in business - Of course, I will put just the hint of bamboo in the design. Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:34:28 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: I'll take 3 of them one in small, and two in xxl Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:54 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from jteft@frontiernet.net Wed Dec 27 18:01:43 2000 eBS01ga23946 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:01:36 -0700 claiming to be "jteft" 2000 Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey I got a faux Dremel Tool and a 8 inch drill press.Jim T-----Original Message---- - Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Ditto on Travis trout - but at least it was intended as a gag. I also got a very nice Woolrich shirt with a fishing motif from my 5 yearold daughter, and a signed copy of Gierach's "Good Flies" from my 7 yearoldson. (Now I just have to get Travis the Trout out of the reach of the kidshands.I swear if I have to hear "Don't Rock the Boat" one more time...) ---Tim Travis Trout for me.... Dennis from mep@mint.net Wed Dec 27 18:06:44 2000 eBS06ha24127 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:06:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod ID Kennebago is the name of a lake and river in Rangely Maine. It's been anexclusive private area since the late 1800's. Still an excellent Brook Troutfishery. Mike----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod ID Does anyone know anything about a rod with "Kennebago" stamped on thereel seat which is a full nickel silver sliding band down locking one?The rod is a thre piece, one tip one with b/w jasper wraps tipped red.Good looking machined ferrules (N.S.) Random node spacing. Rod looksas though it may have been lightly flamed. I doubt that it isCalcutta. It came with two other rods, one of which was made by TommyBrayshaw, so there may be a Canadian connectionEd Hartzell from anglport@con2.com Wed Dec 27 18:26:08 2000 eBS0Q7a24546 "Bamboo Joe" ,"rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Chris,What's a "hint of bamboo"? Slivers? Will it come with a magnifiedtweezer?Art At 06:39 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote:Joe I knew you would like it - I got to find a silk screener and I will be in business - Of course, I will put just the hint of bamboo in the design. Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:34:28 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: I'll take 3 of them one in small, and two in xxl Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:54 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Wheredotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from caneman@clnk.com Wed Dec 27 19:02:55 2000 eBS12ta25231 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey I'll take 100! LOL bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Dec 27 19:58:52 2000 eBS1wpa25726 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Perhaps it is me Bob but the list seems a dull graphite gray of mediocritycompared to what it was.I guess it is back to spittoon makers for me, Terry Bob Nunley wrote: I'll take 100! LOL bob -----Original Message-----From: Chris Bogart Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from HomeyDKlown@att.net Wed Dec 27 19:59:42 2000 ;Thu, 28 Dec 2000 01:59:38 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Chris, I'll take two. One for me and one for the Bait Fisherman. Both in XL. LOL!!! Dennis Chris Bogart wrote: Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from can@telusplanet.net Wed Dec 27 23:26:34 2000 eBS5QXa27599 Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:26:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Annual Xmas Present Survey Went for a walk Boxing Day on the Bow River in Calgary, Alberta with afriend who had been very ill, is better now, planning trips for 2001.Re-finishing an early rod I built for a friend.My sister had a golf shirt & vest embroidered with my Rod Company name,just got to remember not to wear them in the shop area.-- CheersCraig from Canerods@aol.com Thu Dec 28 00:14:46 2000 eBS6Eka28268 Subject: Great Western California rodmakers --part1_ac.ee17a9b.277c344b_boundary Calling all California rodmakers and other wan'na-be attendees of the GW, CalTrout for a fund raising auction. I'd like to see how many rodmakers we can organize to plane some of the rod strips. If interested -- please email: GreatWestern2001@aol.com CalTrout spearheads many major projects to protect or restore trout and steelhead streams (and trout fishing) in the state of California. They are a small organization of only about 3,400 members (I believe that's correct - don't quote me!) in a state with over one million trout fishermen. Their annual budget has grown to over one million dollars per year and they need major funding to continue their lobbying efforts. They've recently had the state buy the land surrounding the E. Walker River to protect public fishing - was to be developed. This is after many years of suing the dam operators that nearly destroyed this river. Annouced this month by CalTrout: Water will flow in the Santa Ana River for the first time since the 1880's. Water will flow in the lower seven miles of Piru Creek (below the Piru Lake dam) allowing native endangered steelhead to spawn in a feeder stream ofthe Santa Clara River for the first time in many many years. (1920's?) Flows on the Feather River will be increased from 50 cfs to over 500cfs and maybe more! This once was one of the three top rainbow rivers in the world. Before the dam diverted this river, flows were 2,000CFS and the AVERAGEfish size was 2.5 lbs. The City of Mammoth Lakes will be sued to preventing them from drilling into the head-springs of the Owens River. And on and on ...... Don Burns --part1_ac.ee17a9b.277c344b_boundary Calling all Californiarodmakers and other wan'na-be attendees of the GW, presented to CalTrout for a fund raising auction. I'd like to see howmany rodmakers we can organize to plane some of the rod strips. CalTrout spearheads many major projects to protect or restore troutand steelhead streams (and trout fishing) in the state of California.They are a small organization of only about 3,400 members (I believethat's correct - don't quote me!) in a state with over one million troutfishermen. Their annual budget has grown to over one million dollars peryear and they need major funding to continue their lobbying efforts. They've recently had the state buy the land surrounding the E. WalkerRiver to protect public fishing - was to be developed. This is after manyyears of suing the dam operators that nearly destroyed this river. Annouced this month by CalTrout: Water will flow in the Santa Ana River for the first time since the1880's. Water will flow in the lower seven miles of Piru Creek (below the PiruLake dam) allowing native endangered steelhead to spawn in a feederstream of the Santa Clara River for the first time in many many years.(1920's?) Flows on the Feather River will be increased from 50 cfs to over500cfs and maybe more! This once was one of the three top rainbowrivers in the world. Before the dam diverted this river, flows were2,000CFS and the AVERAGE fish size was 2.5 lbs. The City of Mammoth Lakes will be sued to preventing them fromdrilling into the head-springs of the Owens River. And on and on ...... Don Burns --part1_ac.ee17a9b.277c344b_boundary-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 28 03:59:55 2000 eBS9xra00111 eBS9xix20794; Subject: Re: Orvis rod information? Organization: vet Boy, that's a relief! When someone says something even vaguely disparaging about PHY and Idon'tsee something from George within a day or so, I start to worry about hishealth. I recently finished a PHY Perfectionist taper, to which fitted a bambooferrule. Now, Tony Young has always said that Paul Young was a genius; andhaving made three "copies" myself, I would have to agree. I do tend to be a Jim Payne devotee , but it seems to me that the basicunderlying PHY taper designs are just so forgiving; even when I get through"interpreting" them they still seem to deliver the goods, time after time.The "Perfectionist" is so good that I wish I had ferruled it with aconventional ferrule, as I have some doubts about my craftmanship with thebamboo thing. Incidentally, Bob Nunley, I am going to do the Plexiglasstreatment on the male ferrule and see how I get on. It's not loose, mind,but I am a worrier! Happy New Year! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Orvis rod information? PHY never did anything for Orvis, and in general had no use forimpregnatedcane of any kind ! Orvis did make a Midge style, in a 1 -pc., in the'50's. GMA from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 28 04:05:41 2000 eBSA5ea00332 eBSA5Wx21121; Subject: Re: Rod ID Organization: vet These, I believe were made by the craftsman Kenneth Bageaux; he also madealot of touring motor homes, but these he named after his dear wife,Winnifred. Little known facts dept, courtesy of - Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod ID Ed,I don't know if this is useful or not but Kennebago is a fly fishingonly river/lake in western Maine. Perhaps it was a rental rod at one ofthe camps there or maybe it was a series by a rod maker in Maine??Also, is the rod made by Tommy Brayshaw, for Tommy Brayshaw ormade bya company as a signature series? I would be interested to hear what youfind out? I have a friend who is a little more adept at collectable rod him. Sorry I couldn't be of more help ,Shawn Ed Hartzell wrote: Does anyone know anything about a rod with "Kennebago" stamped on thereel seat which is a full nickel silver sliding band down locking one?The rod is a thre piece, one tip one with b/w jasper wraps tipped red.Good looking machined ferrules (N.S.) Random node spacing. Rod looksas though it may have been lightly flamed. I doubt that it isCalcutta. It came with two other rods, one of which was made by TommyBrayshaw, so there may be a Canadian connectionEd Hartzell from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thu Dec 28 06:13:40 2000 eBSCDda01390 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Chris: I have a friend down here that is a great screen printer. You design it,and I'll get him to print them. Did you consider having ball caps and otheritems too? Joe ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Joe I knew you would like it - I got to find a silk screenerand I will be in business - Of course, I will put just the hint ofbamboo in the design. Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:34:28 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: I'll take 3 of them one in small, and two in xxl Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:54 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushionsandrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Wheredotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sellthisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of giftsotherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from eamlee@email.msn.com Thu Dec 28 06:52:29 2000 eBSCqSa01730 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 04:52:24 -0800 Subject: Test1 Test1 from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Dec 28 07:43:54 2000 eBSDhra02369 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:43:38 -0500 "Bamboo Joe" ,"rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Joe I think I will skip the tweezers and slivers of bamboobut underline it with a three piece bamboo rod. (nodelessof course) with a nice classic reel , silk line, and fly etc. Maybe we call it Bamboo or Bust Enterprises. Chris On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 07:12:02 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: I have a friend down here that is a great screen printer. You design it,and I'll get him to print them. Did you consider having ball caps and otheritems too? Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 6:39 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Joe I knew you would like it - I got to find a silk screenerand I will be in business - Of course, I will put just the hint ofbamboo in the design. Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:34:28 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: I'll take 3 of them one in small, and two in xxl Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:54 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushionsandrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Wheredotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sellthisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of giftsotherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from anglport@con2.com Thu Dec 28 07:48:15 2000 eBSDmEa02572 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Gee,Terry, is there a list for spitoon-makers? I've been missing out allthis time I've had the 'puter and didn't know it?!I'm also in the market for a group dedicated to outhouse builders...knowof one?Art At 09:05 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:Perhaps it is me Bob but the list seems a dull graphite gray of mediocritycompared to what it was.I guess it is back to spittoon makers for me, Terry Bob Nunley wrote: I'll take 100! LOL bob -----Original Message-----From: Chris Bogart Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushions andrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Wheredotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of gifts otherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from eamlee@email.msn.com Thu Dec 28 07:58:29 2000 eBSDwSa02905 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 05:58:24 -0800 Subject: Steelhead Taper Makers'Happy Holidays!I live in Syracuse, NY, just South of the infamous Salmon River. While manyanglers may not come near this watershed with a 9ft steel rod, I grew uphere, and have found ways to negotiate the nuts and dolts thatunfortunatelyfrequent this otherwise extraordinary river. That being said, I would liketo make a rod for the steelhead that call the Salmon home. from Summer lows of 175cfs up to 2000+cfs in the Spring or otherwiseverywet conditions, the average being 350-700cfs. While not a very wide river,averaging maybe 10-20yards in the upper sections to 20- 40yards in thelower,it does offer a variety of riffles, pocket water and deep pools. Therereally isn't a place on the river where one couldn't skull a "lifter" withan 8oz rock from across the river, although I would never do that........Ionly offer that to paint a clear picture. The Steelhead range from 5lb to20lb, and tippets generally used are 4-8lb/test. Back casting room can belimited, so I am looking for a rod that can roll 20-30ft of DT#6-7 ANDhandle a fresh 18lb nickel bright buck in fast water! 8^) It has been suggested that a Dickerson 8615 may fit the bill (the one in theRM Taperbase, not Jack Howell's book.) I was wondering if anyone had anysuggestions as to a taper that may be most enjoyable to fish in theseconditions. Thank you so very much in advance and I wish all of you aprosperous New Year.Eamon Lee from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Dec 28 08:12:20 2000 eBSECJa03515 Subject: Re: Steelhead Taper Eamon, I would definitively go for the Paul H.Young Para17. You`ll find the taper here: <http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/Tapers/hexrod- Happy New Year, danny from anglport@con2.com Thu Dec 28 08:21:11 2000 eBSELAa03947 "Bamboo Joe" ,"rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Chris,I won't buy if they're nodeless! You know how opinionated rodmakers canbe! Nodes or bust!;^)Art At 08:43 AM 12/28/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote:Joe I think I will skip the tweezers and slivers of bamboobut underline it with a three piece bamboo rod. (nodelessof course) with a nice classic reel , silk line, and fly etc. Maybe we call it Bamboo or Bust Enterprises. Chris On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 07:12:02 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: I have a friend down here that is a great screen printer. You design it,and I'll get him to print them. Did you consider having ball caps and otheritems too? Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 6:39 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Joe I knew you would like it - I got to find a silk screenerand I will be in business - Of course, I will put just the hint ofbamboo in the design. Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:34:28 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: I'll take 3 of them one in small, and two in xxl Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:54 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushionsandrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world.Wheredotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sellthisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of giftsotherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Dec 28 08:37:25 2000 eBSEbOa04486 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Steelhead Taper limited, so I am looking for a rod that can roll 20-30ft of DT#6-7 ANDhandle a fresh 18lb nickel bright buck in fast water! 8^) I too fish the liquid madhouse called the Salmon river at least a couple oftimes per year; in the spring for steelhead and in the fall for cohos andkings. In the past, I always used a 9ft 7wt graphite rod since I didn'thave a cane rod with the needed muscle. I finally picked a taperspecifically for that river, an 8' 10" 8wt Gillum salmon rod from Howell'sbook. I just finished the blank and will have the rod completed in about aweek so will give you an account of it once I get out to the park for a fewcasts. Richard from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 28 11:47:25 2000 eBSHlHa08304 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,"Coffey, Patrick W" ,Robert Milardo , "Steven Weiss" ,tom hardy , marty ,channer , Jerry Madigan ,dpfitch@collins.rockwell.com, Dennis Higham,rcurry@ttlc.net, bthoman@neonsoft.com, "lars32" ,Bamboomaker@aol.com, rcolo@ix.netcom.com, Tom Hardy,"nancyscandy pez dispenser":;, jmayle@pce.net, gallagher3@adelphia.net,SimeonFreston@cs.com, downandx@buffnet.net Subject: Switching ISP If anyone is sending me e-mail and doesn't get a reply it is because I am switching ISPs. As long as you sent mail to bob@downandacross.com, I will get it. If you are sending to downandx@buffnet.net please switch the address to read bob@downandacross.com. This mail will follow me to the DSL account.Thanks for your patience. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Dec 28 15:14:59 2000 eBSLEwa16603 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:14:50 -0800 Subject: 4, 5, or 6? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C070CF.ACA04660 Hello Rodmakers,I have been lurking in the back ground for the past couple of monthsabsorbing a vast array of knowledge. Now that I am greatly confused andimpressed it is time for me to ask some questions.What is gained or lost by using 4, 5, or 6 strips for rod construction?Is the reduction in number of strips simply a weight factor? For the sake ofcomparison if the same taper were used to construct the three styles ofrodswhat would be the differences?Thank you in advance for your replies. Regards, DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C070CF.ACA04660 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20001228T211118ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C070CF.ACA04660-- from bamboo@pa.net Thu Dec 28 15:43:01 2000 eBSLgxa17601 Subject: off topic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C070EE.1F16F720 I know this is severely off topic, but does anyone know where I can find = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C070EE.1F16F720 I know this is severely off topic, but = know where I can find information about building a flintlock = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C070EE.1F16F720-- from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Dec 28 16:02:18 2000 eBSM2Ha18096 Subject: Re: off topic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C071B9.31F4F740 Try Dixie Gunworks. They have a huge catalog of all sorts of parts, kitsetc. I think that they are online at this time. John K. ----- Original Message -----From: Bill Taylor Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 1:49 PMSubject: off topic I know this is severely off topic, but does anyone know where I can findinformation about building a flintlock rifle. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C071B9.31F4F740 = time. John K. ----- Original Message ----- BillTaylor = Sent: Thursday, December 28, = PMSubject: off topic I know this is severely off topic, = ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C071B9.31F4F740-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Dec 28 17:25:58 2000 eBSNPva19696 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art,there is some useful information out there but it has looked for. I picked upagreat recipe for impregnation from the Embalmers list. A refreshing bunchand unlikerodmakers it is not themselves that they are trying to immortalize!In answer to your question, try the drain surgeons list! Terry Art Port wrote: Gee,Terry, is there a list for spitoon-makers? I've been missing out allthis time I've had the 'puter and didn't know it?!I'm also in the market for a group dedicated to outhousebuilders...knowof one?Art At 09:05 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:Perhaps it is me Bob but the list seems a dull graphite gray of mediocritycompared to what it was.I guess it is back to spittoon makers for me, Terry Bob Nunley wrote: I'll take 100! LOL bob -----Original Message-----From: Chris Bogart rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushionsandrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Wheredotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sell thisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of giftsotherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Dec 28 17:34:04 2000 eBSNY3a20004 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:33:40 -0500 "hexagon@odyssee.net" "rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Terry Have you tried the DIY recipe yet? Chris On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:31:44 -0500, T. Ackland wrote: Art,there is some useful information out there but it has looked for. I pickedup agreat recipe for impregnation from the Embalmers list. A refreshing bunchand unlikerodmakers it is not themselves that they are trying to immortalize!In answer to your question, try the drain surgeons list! Terry Art Port wrote: Gee,Terry, is there a list for spitoon-makers? I've been missing out allthis time I've had the 'puter and didn't know it?!I'm also in the market for a group dedicated to outhousebuilders...knowof one?Art At 09:05 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:Perhaps it is me Bob but the list seems a dull graphite gray ofmediocritycompared to what it was.I guess it is back to spittoon makers for me, Terry Bob Nunley wrote: I'll take 100! LOL bob -----Original Message-----From: Chris Bogart rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushionsandrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world.Where dotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sellthisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of giftsotherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 17:38:47 2000 eBSNcla20192 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:38:43 -0800 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:38:43 GMT Subject: Re: Steelhead Taper FILETIME=[50C07FB0:01C07127] From: "Eamon Lee" Subject: Steelhead TaperDate: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:09:25 -0500 Makers'Happy Holidays!I live in Syracuse, NY, just South of the infamous Salmon River. While manyanglers may not come near this watershed with a 9ft steel rod, I grew uphere, and have found ways to negotiate the nuts and dolts that unfortunatelyfrequent this otherwise extraordinary river. That being said, I would liketo make a rod for the steelhead that call the Salmon home. ranging from Summer lows of 175cfs up to 2000+cfs in the Spring or otherwiseverywet conditions, the average being 350-700cfs. While not a very wide river,averaging maybe 10-20yards in the upper sections to 20- 40yards in the lower,it does offer a variety of riffles, pocket water and deep pools. Therereally isn't a place on the river where one couldn't skull a "lifter" withan 8oz rock from across the river, although I would never do that........Ionly offer that to paint a clear picture. The Steelhead range from 5lb to20lb, and tippets generally used are 4-8lb/test. Back casting room can belimited, so I am looking for a rod that can roll 20-30ft of DT#6-7 ANDhandle a fresh 18lb nickel bright buck in fast water! 8^) It has been suggested that a Dickerson 8615 may fit the bill (the one in theRM Taperbase, not Jack Howell's book.) I was wondering if anyone had anysuggestions as to a taper that may be most enjoyable to fish in theseconditions. Thank you so very much in advance and I wish all of you aprosperous New Year.Eamon Lee One of the best I have ever used was a P. Gillum taper, 8 1/2 ft for an 8wt. It rated an 'amazing!'A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from FlyfishT@aol.com Thu Dec 28 19:48:07 2000 eBT1m6a21517 Subject: Re: Steelhead Taper eBT1m6a21518 Eamon, I made the 8015 guide special. I fished the Muskegon for salmon this year. It is a nice rod _ fast and powerful. It is enough rod. If I were to do it over, I would probably make a 8 1/2 ft. I would highly consider making the Gillum. It was voted number 1 for salmon rods in the Dickerson: The Man and HisRods book. people said that it won't hold a salmon. They spoke of some graphite 8 weights snapping. Tom from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Dec 28 20:03:54 2000 eBT23ra21851 Subject: Re: 4, 5, or 6? Dick,A.J. McLane had some good words that I put on my Extracts page sometimeago.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Hello Rodmakers,I have been lurking in the back ground for the past couple of monthsabsorbing a vast array of knowledge. Now that I am greatly confused andimpressed it is time for me to ask some questions.What is gained or lost by using 4, 5, or 6 strips for rod construction?Is the reduction in number of strips simply a weight factor? For the sakeofcomparison if the same taper were used to construct the three styles ofrodswhat would be the differences?Thank you in advance for your replies. Regards, DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com -- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Dec 28 20:07:17 2000 eBT27Ga22029 Subject: re: Christmas survey Just back from N.S.. I got nothing unusual except a 10'6" Chubb 8-sidedrod with an Atwood Patent reel.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 28 20:10:28 2000 eBT2ARa22286 Subject: Re: off topic John K,Actually this is probably one of the last places you want to look for gun building supplies. Having built flintlocks for over 20 years they are someone I never looked to for advice or parts. Dixie has been around for a long time but I am sorry to say they have a lot of junk in their catalog.Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Dec 28 20:58:34 2000 eBT2wXa23038 Subject: Re: off topic In a message dated 12/28/2000 4:43:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,bamboo@pa.net writes: Contact Dixie Gun Works at 901-885-0700 They're catalog is $5.00 and well worth the price. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Troutgetter@aol.com Thu Dec 28 21:30:53 2000 eBT3Ura23511 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey In a message dated 12/28/2000 6:48:49 AM PDT, anglport@con2.comwrites: Art,I belong to the Outhouse Builder's and Users Guild. Our small little guild has tried to submit articles to Architectural Digest, but to date have been rejected. My own personal outhouse has been designed with a wood deck,solid 1/2" plywood walls, and is fitted with a custom door depicting a trout jumping over the moon with stars in the sky. These have been jig sawed out and routed with a HSS 1/4 round router bit. The structure is of course a two holer and the next addition is to tap a line to the propane tank and install a fine little 20,000 Btu heater to make those long conversations a little more comfy. Next summer I plan on building the roof. I figure about another 6 years of apprenticeship should make me a Master in the GuildMike Shay (Member In Good Standing OB&UG)Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA from briansr@point-net.com Thu Dec 28 22:29:26 2000 eBT4TQa24369 Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:29:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Tery !!!!!You're on the Spittoon Makers list as well ??Did you read all those posts on lump-cutters?Also those rather gross JPGs from that guy in Alaska that invented a high speed Spittoon centrifuge .YECHT !!!!!!!!!!!!Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Perhaps it is me Bob but the list seems a dull graphite gray of mediocritycompared to what it was.I guess it is back to spittoon makers for me, Terry Bob Nunley wrote: I'll take 100! LOL bob -----Original Message-----From: Chris Bogart rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:55 PMSubject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art My money making gift idea for next year will be Tee Shirtsthat say: "Friends don't let Friends fish Graphite!" Chris On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:18 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Naaah, then we'd just get generic gag gifts, like whoopie cushionsandrubber dog excrement.Art At 03:47 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote: Each year I am always amazed at the new and oh so wonderfulthings they come out with for the fly fishermen of the world. Wheredotheysell this stuff? no self respecting fly shop around me would sellthisstuff - But then againmaybe they should ($$) and we would get a better class of giftsotherthanthe ones we buy for ourselves. Chris from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Dec 28 22:35:41 2000 eBT4Zfa24652 UAA17870 Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey "I don't want to achieve immortality through my rods...I want to achieve itthrough not dying." Paul (apologies to Woody Allen) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey Art,there is some useful information out there but it has looked for. Ipicked up agreat recipe for impregnation from the Embalmers list. A refreshing bunchand unlikerodmakers it is not themselves that they are trying to immortalize!In answer to your question, try the drain surgeons list! Terry [snip] from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Dec 28 22:42:54 2000 eBT4gra24935 Subject: somewhat off subject As a small thing sortof associated with the "other interests" I also do scrollsaw work. MUCH of it original. I am LOOKING for some line drawings of fly fishing to turn into scrollsaw scenes. I work in Walnut, cherry, cypress, maple, (spalted maple is really nice) and others. One idea that I have is to build a rod presentation case, with the top and sides cut out with pierced work showing fly fishing scenes. Sound cool? bit about "sharing" and introducing a friend to fly fishing. This Christmas I gave a rod to my son-in-law as well as a bunch of flies. I also got to talking with a young man at a place I deliver (I drive a BIG truck!) and was talking about a deer hair mouse for fishing for Bass. He said they sounded like fun but he didn't fly fish. I pointed him in the direction of the local fly shop and promised to get some little furry critturs to him. I sent him about a dozen flies in addition to the pair of mice that I tied last night and sent them off via UPS today. Maybe we will have another convert.I don't agree wholeheartedly with the "Friends don't let friends fish...." idea. At least not wholeheartedly. I am stuck with my graphite rods for now, until I can finish my forms and get a rod underway. I enjoy them, but I am sure that I will enjoy cane as much or more, particularly if I built it!One final bit. I found a great place to practice my casting. I used the warehouse where I work. We have lots of open floor space. So I tied on a bit of yarn and went to practicing. We have a warehouse that has 11 dock doors across one end, that is about 200 ft or so. I was casting fairly well almost half the length of that. Not bad I guess for a guy who has only been attempting this for about 10 months!Well, enough brag. It was (and still is) snowing. (again) this makes about 30 inches in Iowa this December. mark The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. ~ A.Einstein from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Dec 29 04:03:34 2000 eBTA3Xa27144 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Hock Blades Group Order #2 I'm putting another group order together for blades for your Stanley 9 1/2and 60 1/2 planes. Please contact me off list if you wish to join in. Darrell Lee from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Dec 29 05:14:43 2000 eBTBEga27638 Subject: Re: off topic eBTBEha27639 Thanks for the advice- I don't build flintlocks, but was aware of their catalog. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: off topic John K,Actually this is probably one of the last places you want to look for gun building supplies. Having built flintlocks for over 20 years they are someone I never looked to for advice or parts. Dixie has been around for a long time but I am sorry to say they have a lot of junk in their catalog.Bret from anglport@con2.com Fri Dec 29 07:15:34 2000 eBTDFXa28523 Subject: Book sale at Amazon All,I don't know how many of you guys get mail from Amazon.com, but Ijust gotone announcing their new "Outlet" and it has some titles you might beinterested in.If you go to the URL below and click "Books", then click "Sports" in thenext window (in the "Browse Books" box), then "General" in the next window,they have about a dozen titles spread out among 100 other outdoor books.Lots of "brand-new" titles by some guy named Zane Grey? But there AREsomeinteresting looking ones there too, including one by another new light onthe horizon, a Fredric Halford (?).I can't tell if the prices are all THAT good, but....You can't possibly believe I have enough of an interest in Amazon to tryto sucker you guys in (I'd give a pinky off my non-planing hand to have onethough),Art http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/browse/- /outlet/517808/ref%3Domm%5F3/105-8276715-6195966 from ewp42@yahoo.com Fri Dec 29 08:08:47 2000 eBTE8la29343 2000 06:08:48 PST Subject: Re: 4, 5, or 6? Very nice stuff there, Reed. Thanks for mentioningit. Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Dec 29 09:21:22 2000 eBTFLLa00993 Subject: Nov/Dec Contest winner Kris Kristovich was the winner, chosen at random from all (many) whorecognized Leonard Wright as the author of : "Can't I, after all this, find at least one kind thing to say about ournew short fly rods? Well, yes, perhaps this, I am reminded of thecountry sage's defense of bad breath. 'It's mighty unpleasant, but itbeats no breath at all.' " Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 29 10:03:02 2000 eBTG32a02010 Subject: January 2001 POwer Fibers now available --=====================_101156336==_.ALT Dear Friends:I am pleased to announce that the second issue is out and available for free download. It is nearly triple the size of the premier issue and is packed with worthwhile information and pictures.http://www.powerfibers.com Download times are about 5 minutes on a 56k modem. Features include:Rodmaker Profiles: Asbjoern Hoergaard, Christopher McDowell, and Joseph PerrigoMilling MachinesDrip Tube FinishingMaking Your Own ReelseatsSouthern Rodmaker's GatheringShop SafetySpey Rod Tapers I would like to thank Charles Neuner, Danny Twang, Rob Clarke, Tony Spezio, and Bob Nunley for all their hard work and expertise. Also, thanks to Charlie Curro for letting us use his pics from SRG.Please let me know what you think, so I can start planning the next issue with you in mind. If you would please let our sponsors know that you saw their ad in Power Fibers, I would greatly appreciate that. Happy New Years, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com --=====================_101156336==_.ALT Dear Friends:I am pleased to announce that the second issue is out and available forfree download. It is nearly triple the size of the premier issue and ispacked with worthwhile information and pictures.http://www.powerfibers.comDownload times are about 5 minutes on a 56k modem. Features include: Rodmaker Profiles: Asbjoern Hoergaard, Christopher McDowell, andJoseph PerrigoMilling MachinesDrip Tube FinishingMaking Your Own ReelseatsSouthern Rodmaker's GatheringShop SafetySpey Rod Tapers I would like to thank Charles Neuner, Danny Twang, Rob Clarke, TonySpezio, and Bob Nunley for all their hard work and expertise. Also, thanks toCharlie Curro for letting us use his pics from SRG. Please let me know what you think, so I can start planning the next issue withyou in mind. If you would please let our sponsors know that you saw their adin Power Fibers, I would greatly appreciate that. Happy New Years, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular 716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com --=====================_101156336==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 29 11:25:45 2000 eBTHPia03800 Subject: Test please delete Checking new address, please disregard.Thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from stuart.rod@gmx.de Fri Dec 29 11:35:04 2000 eBTHZ3a04355 Subject: Force Taper Hi everybody, I hear a lot of you have got the snow we are supposed to have! Here inBavaria in Germany we are WAITING for it, the skiiers are having a badtime with their nerves.....jump out of bed in the morning, tear open thecurtains....no snow. This time last year we had about 3ft of the stuff. Anyway down to business, can somebody tell me which taper is the Forcetaper from Wayne Cattanachs book? Thanks Stuart from stuart.rod@gmx.de Fri Dec 29 11:41:00 2000 eBTHexa04668 Subject: Re: Force Taper That's what I call quick help...it took all of 2 minutes. Thankyou very much Stuart Larry Blan wrote: Stuart; the 8' 6wt 2pc is the Force. The original "Force" is owned by mybest friend, it is the one that appears on the cover of the original book.Try it, you'll like it! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 12:35 PM Subject: Force Taper Hi everybody, I hear a lot of you have got the snow we are supposed to have! Here inBavaria in Germany we are WAITING for it, the skiiers are having a badtime with their nerves.....jump out of bed in the morning, tear open thecurtains....no snow. This time last year we had about 3ft of the stuff. Anyway down to business, can somebody tell me which taper is the Forcetaper from Wayne Cattanachs book? Thanks Stuart from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Dec 29 11:44:46 2000 eBTHija04873 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: January 2001 POwer Fibers now available This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C07176.6AA742C0 BRAVO, BRAVO!!! Another masterpiece Bob!!! You da man! Darrell Leewww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 7:56 AM Subject: January 2001 POwer Fibers now available Dear Friends:I am pleased to announce that the second issue is out and available forfree download. It is nearly triple the size of the premier issue and ispacked with worthwhile information and pictures.http://www.powerfibers.comDownload times are about 5 minutes on a 56k modem. Features include:Rodmaker Profiles: Asbjoern Hoergaard, Christopher McDowell, and JosephPerrigoMilling MachinesDrip Tube FinishingMaking Your Own ReelseatsSouthern Rodmaker's GatheringShop SafetySpey Rod Tapers I would like to thank Charles Neuner, Danny Twang, Rob Clarke, TonySpezio, and Bob Nunley for all their hard work and expertise. Also, thanksto Charlie Curro for letting us use his pics from SRG.Please let me know what you think, so I can start planning the next issuewith you in mind. If you would please let our sponsors know that you sawtheir ad in Power Fibers, I would greatly appreciate that. Happy New Years, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C07176.6AA742C0 man! Darrell Leewww.vfish.net MaulucciSent: Friday, December 29, 2000 7:56 = Fibers Subscribers: ;Subject: January 2001 POwer Fibers now= availableDear Friends:I am pleased to = the second issue is out and available for free download. It is nearly = the size of the premier issue and is packed with worthwhile = pictures. http://www.powerfibers.com Download times are= Rodmaker Profiles: Asbjoern Hoergaard, Christopher McDowell, and = Spey Rod Tapers I would like to thank Charles= Danny Twang, Rob Clarke, Tony Spezio, and Bob Nunley for all their = and expertise. Also, thanks to Charlie Curro for letting us use his = SRG. Please let me know what you think, so I can start planning = issue with you in mind. If you would please let our sponsors know that = their ad in Power Fibers, I would greatly appreciate = =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhttp://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218= AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 = 716-836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C07176.6AA742C0-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Dec 29 12:01:51 2000 eBTI1oa05356 Subject: Ted Knott's Rodmaking article While visiting in N.S., I picked up a copy of the Fall 2000, "TheCanadian Fly Fisher" magazine. I gather Ted Knott, listmember, is aregular contributor. This issue included the first of two articles byTed on Cane Rod building. Good show, Ted, it's seldom one sees thatsubject on the newstand.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 29 12:13:08 2000 eBTID7a05782 Subject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Dec 29 12:37:28 2000 eBTIbQa06420 Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:37:27 +0100 Subject: Sv: power fibers eBTIbSa06423 OK Terry, I'll bite!!! let us, for arguments sake, presume You are right in saying thatsawn strips stay straight. Would You then recommend us "handplaners"to saw the strips? Would certainly save a lot of time not hving tospend time straighten strips. regards, Carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 29 13:20:58 2000 eBTJKwa07340 Subject: Re: Sv: power fibers Carsten,as you know from splitting, the grain runs all over the place, this is whyyou have to straighten. Examine any rod that has been sawn and bevelled andyou will see that the grain runs out all over the place, it does not as Mr.Neuner suggests, run a straight line.You will not be able to plane a strip that has been sawn because you willcome up with sections requiring planing against the grain.I have a selection of old rods that that were sawn and bevelled and they areall very straight but for the usual slight downward set from use.I know guys on the list will not admit to having problems with straightnessbut if you get to any claves check out rods.Terry Carsten Jorgensen wrote: OK Terry, I'll bite!!! let us, for arguments sake, presume You are right in saying thatsawn strips stay straight. Would You then recommend us "handplaners"to saw the strips? Would certainly save a lot of time not hving tospend time straighten strips. regards, Carsten ----- Original Message -----From: T. Ackland Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 7:19 PMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Dec 29 13:33:05 2000 eBTJX5a07716 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) "=?iso-8859-1?Q?'Carsten_J=F8rgensen'?=" Subject: RE: Sv: power fibers Terry, Whith sawed strips, do you have any straightening to do to your strips ordo you simply need to file and press the nodes before milling? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 2:27 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sv: power fibers Carsten,as you know from splitting, the grain runs all over theplace, this is whyyou have to straighten. Examine any rod that has been sawnand bevelled andyou will see that the grain runs out all over the place, itdoes not as Mr.Neuner suggests, run a straight line.You will not be able to plane a strip that has been sawnbecause you willcome up with sections requiring planing against the grain.I have a selection of old rods that that were sawn andbevelled and they areall very straight but for the usual slight downward set from use.I know guys on the list will not admit to having problemswith straightnessbut if you get to any claves check out rods.Terry Carsten Jorgensen wrote: OK Terry, I'll bite!!! let us, for arguments sake, presume You are right in saying thatsawn strips stay straight. Would You then recommend us "handplaners"to saw the strips? Would certainly save a lot of time not hving tospend time straighten strips. regards, Carsten ----- Original Message -----From: T. Ackland Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 7:19 PMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuneron millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the stripsbecause they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present usingmilling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rodsmade from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods incollectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods beingproduced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateurmethod of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of goodsounding "science"but.......Terry from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Dec 29 14:05:47 2000 eBTK5ja08533 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Sv: power fibers Terry, I have actually used strips that have been sawn. I have some old stock ofsawn strips, and in need for cane, I have plane it in my form with anordinary block plane. It is not ideal, but if You use a very sharp edge Ican't tell the different.... I have however had failure on some #3 weighttips, after examination it's obviously because the fibres/grains runs "out"of the strips.... regardsdanny Carsten,as you know from splitting, the grain runs all over the place, this is whyyou have to straighten. Examine any rod that has been sawn and bevelledandyou will see that the grain runs out all over the place, it does not as Mr.Neuner suggests, run a straight line.You will not be able to plane a strip that has been sawn because you willcome up with sections requiring planing against the grain.I have a selection of old rods that that were sawn and bevelled and theyareall very straight but for the usual slight downward set from use.I know guys on the list will not admit to having problems with straightnessbut if you get to any claves check out rods.Terry from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 29 14:25:22 2000 eBTKPLa09188 Subject: Wet Fly Taper The other day, Chris Bogart stopped by, and I showed him this rod. We both agreed, that anyone who owned this rod also had the power to make ReedCurry give up all his worldly posessions. The rod is simply the best light wet fly rod I have ever handled. It is light and soft, but has just enough butt strength to cast a reasonable loop. I can't imagine anything better for fishing small soft hackles. If you are persuaded by Reed's arguments, here is a rod to consider. The rod is an F.E. Thomas Special, 3 piece 8 foot for a 4 weight line. Sections are 32 1/2" long. The measurements are with varnishoff. 0- .0625- .07510-.10315-.11820-.13025-.14230-.15335-.16540-.18345- .19250-.20455-.21660-.22865-.23470-.25875-.27480-.28585-.30487- .314 - This is where the grip starts - Ferrules appear to be a 10 and a15.The rod is an example of Thomas' best work, and is wrapped with fancy trim and intermediates. If anyone wants to go to that kind of trouble, let me know, and I will send the details from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 29 14:40:45 2000 eBTKeia09662 Subject: Re: payne 71 Taper Dear Darrell, That particular rod is very difficult to describe. I neverfelt I could get the full potential from it. If we compare it to otherparabolics it is lacking in a few important characteristics. It certainlydoes not have the crispness of a PHY "midge" or the reserve power of a"perfectionist". I hope I am making sense. It always felt "clubby" in thehand. It's like I never could get the timing down. It was 25 years ago andmy casting has improved but I still don't think I would like the rod. Onthe other hand for short rods I find the Model 96 to be the best I have everfished. What a gem. I'm not a builder but a collector of sorts...like tofish my rods, would never buy one that I didn't want to fish with. I havea caliper and the 96 does not seem to be readily available. would be happyto try and mike it for everyone. I have promised a few people that I woulddo that recently so i will give it a try this weekend and have it foreveryone next week. Hope I can do it correctly. Danny and channer,promise it's coming........Rich Colo-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: payne 71 Taper Hi, Yes that is the taper... I get so many requests for short rods, I'm alwayscurious as to how other tapers perform. thanks for you feedback Darrell -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:16 PM Subject: Re: payne 71 Taper Darrell, I'm not familiar with a model 71. Could you mean the 7'1"parabolicwhich I owned for a few years and found very difficult to get the timingdownon? Rich Colo Darrell Lee wrote: Can anyone who has built and cast this rod or rod taper please tell mehowyou liked this one and it's characteristics? Thanks, Darrell from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 29 14:44:39 2000 eBTKica09905 Subject: Re: Sv: power fibers danny,there you go, what works for some does not work for others. There is nobest way!I tried it several times and it did not work with my planing technique whichwasto take fairly coarse, fast cuts. I found I got dig ins unless I worked slowlywith very fine cuts which sort of defeated the object.Terry Danny Twang wrote: Terry, I have actually used strips that have been sawn. I have some old stock ofsawn strips, and in need for cane, I have plane it in my form with anordinary block plane. It is not ideal, but if You use a very sharp edge Ican't tell the different.... I have however had failure on some #3 weighttips, after examination it's obviously because the fibres/grains runs "out"of the strips.... regardsdanny Carsten,as you know from splitting, the grain runs all over the place, this is whyyou have to straighten. Examine any rod that has been sawn and bevelledandyou will see that the grain runs out all over the place, it does not as Mr.Neuner suggests, run a straight line.You will not be able to plane a strip that has been sawn because you willcome up with sections requiring planing against the grain.I have a selection of old rods that that were sawn and bevelled and theyareall very straight but for the usual slight downward set from use.I know guys on the list will not admit to having problems withstraightnessbut if you get to any claves check out rods.Terry from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Dec 29 14:44:39 2000 eBTKica09906 Subject: Re: Hock Blades Group Order #2 Has anyone considered the A2 replacement blades made by Lee Valley? Leevalley claims they are superior to high carbon replacement blades. I havea Lee Valley "Veritas" plane with an A2 blade and find myself going to it ----------From: Darrell Lee Subject: Hock Blades Group Order #2Date: Friday, December 29, 2000 4:49 AM I'm putting another group order together for blades for your Stanley 91/2and 60 1/2 planes. Please contact me off list if you wish to join in. Darrell Lee from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 29 14:45:26 2000 eBTKjQa10074 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sv: power fibers Richard,I have given up pressing nodes, they often split, rollover and pop back out!I just file the small crusty part off the top of the node ( just 1 or 2strokes) I use heat on the nodes and manipulate the cane and turn the nodesin which makes the nodes just about invisible. There is no need to touch thesides if you saw.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: Terry, Whith sawed strips, do you have any straightening to do to your strips ordo you simply need to file and press the nodes before milling? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 2:27 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sv: power fibers Carsten,as you know from splitting, the grain runs all over theplace, this is whyyou have to straighten. Examine any rod that has been sawnand bevelled andyou will see that the grain runs out all over the place, itdoes not as Mr.Neuner suggests, run a straight line.You will not be able to plane a strip that has been sawnbecause you willcome up with sections requiring planing against the grain.I have a selection of old rods that that were sawn andbevelled and they areall very straight but for the usual slight downward set from use.I know guys on the list will not admit to having problemswith straightnessbut if you get to any claves check out rods.Terry Carsten Jorgensen wrote: OK Terry, I'll bite!!! let us, for arguments sake, presume You are right in saying thatsawn strips stay straight. Would You then recommend us "handplaners"to saw the strips? Would certainly save a lot of time not hving tospend time straighten strips. regards, Carsten ----- Original Message -----From: T. Ackland Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 7:19 PMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuneron millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the stripsbecause they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present usingmilling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rodsmade from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods incollectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods beingproduced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateurmethod of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of goodsounding "science"but.......Terry from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 29 15:13:23 2000 eBTLDMa11190 2000 13:13:24 PST Subject: Re: Sv: power fibers terry, i was going to tell you that i had planed sawnstrips with no problem but then i thot about it andthat wouldn't be true. i have done it successfully.if there is a trick or a secret it is a sharp planeblade and alot of sharpening time,but that would be nosecret. as i thot about it i remember being verycautious and spending more time polishing the planeblade. timothy --- "T. Ackland" wrote:danny,there you go, what works for some does not work forothers. There is no best way!I tried it several times and it did not work with myplaning technique which wasto take fairly coarse, fast cuts. I found I got digins unless I worked slowlywith very fine cuts which sort of defeated theobject.Terry Danny Twang wrote: Terry, I have actually used strips that have been sawn. Ihave some old stock ofsawn strips, and in need for cane, I have plane itin my form with anordinary block plane. It is not ideal, but if Youuse a very sharp edge Ican't tell the different.... I have however hadfailure on some #3 weighttips, after examination it's obviously because thefibres/grains runs "out"of the strips.... regardsdanny Carsten,as you know from splitting, the grain runs allover the place, this is whyyou have to straighten. Examine any rod that hasbeen sawn and bevelled andyou will see that the grain runs out all overthe place, it does not as Mr.Neuner suggests, run a straight line.You will not be able to plane a strip that hasbeen sawn because you willcome up with sections requiring planing againstthe grain.I have a selection of old rods that that weresawn and bevelled and they areall very straight but for the usual slightdownward set from use.I know guys on the list will not admit to havingproblems with straightnessbut if you get to any claves check out rods.Terry ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Dec 29 15:25:09 2000 eBTLP8a11699 "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?=" Subject: Re: Sv: power fibers In the chapter on bamboo rod building in the "Wise" Fisherman'sEncyclopedia, 1951 ed., page 956, the author (L. Feirabend, I believe)states that in his opinion "if the sawn angle does not exceed a ratio ofone to twenty; ie, 1/4" in 5", no noticeable ill effect will be manifest inthe finished product either from the standpoint of strength or action." I've had several Heddon rods pass through my hands that were clearly"split" and straightened, or else from incrediblely straight culms. Ithink the Heddons were among the very best of the medium priced rods ofthe50's. On the other hand I have had several Payne rods that were clearly sawn One of my Hardy rods the grain went from one side of the strip to the otherin a distance of 1 1/2" ! I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 29 16:00:14 2000 eBTM0Da12586 Subject: ? Terrance What? is having fibre run-out the professional part? or is that afunction of production technique? Do you Manipulate the cane with your hands? with professional and hand planing. maybe hi yield production andprofessional are different things (ref: george gerke). regards jerry from SBDunn@aol.com Fri Dec 29 16:06:07 2000 eBTM66a12861 2000 17:05:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Sv: power fibers Please pardon this from an admitted novice/lurker with only one rod built, but I have long thought this split vs sawn stuff was hype. If splitting is sooo superior, why do you have to steer the split when it wanders off to one side? For that matter why CAN it wander off when the grain doesn't? Also, wouldn't wandering grain in several strips create something akin to plywood, where the grain is intentionally alternated to produce a stronger board than the more or less uniform grained natural product? I hope no one takes offense. I'll go back to lurking now. Flame away. Regards and happy new year, Steve. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Dec 29 16:08:26 2000 eBTM8Pa13079 Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:08:26 -0500 "TSmithwick@aol.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Tom You promised not to tell until I had most of Reed's earthly belongings.I was going to sneak that rod in at Grayling and have some more real fun withReed - I like it when he rises up to the presentation. All kidding aside - this is one great rod that Tom had and a must build that I have seen. The intermediates are quite well done - the spacing progresses furtherapart as they go away from the tip. Both tips wraps match perfectly - a realworkof art - Hey Joe - are you listening - I got an idea for your new helper in hersparetime - I would pay someone to do this level of detail thread work. Have fun building this rod. Reed you still need to get one of these andI will have one - - - He he he. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:25:06 EST, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: The other day, Chris Bogart stopped by, and I showed him this rod. We both agreed, that anyone who owned this rod also had the power to make ReedCurry give up all his worldly posessions. The rod is simply the best light wet fly rod I have ever handled. It is light and soft, but has just enough butt strength to cast a reasonable loop. I can't imagine anything better for fishing small soft hackles. If you are persuaded by Reed's arguments, hereis a rod to consider. The rod is an F.E. Thomas Special, 3 piece 8 foot for a 4 weight line. Sections are 32 1/2" long. The measurements are with varnishoff. 0- .0625- .07510-.10315-.11820-.13025-.14230-.15335-.16540-.18345- .19250-.20455-.21660-.22865-.23470-.25875-.27480-.28585-.30487- .314 - This is where the grip starts - Ferrules appear to be a 10 and a15.The rod is an example of Thomas' best work, and is wrapped with fancy trim and intermediates. If anyone wants to go to that kind of trouble, let me know, and I will send the details from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Fri Dec 29 16:52:07 2000 eBTMq6a13930 Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Chris: If you are willing to pay her just send em on down here and we'll wrap away. Joe ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Tom You promised not to tell until I had most of Reed's earthly belongings.I was going to sneak that rod in at Grayling and have some more real funwithReed - I like it when he rises up to the presentation. All kidding aside - this is one great rod that Tom had and a must build rod thatI have seen. The intermediates are quite well done - the spacing progresses furtherapart as they go away from the tip. Both tips wraps match perfectly - areal workof art - Hey Joe - are you listening - I got an idea for your new helperin her sparetime - I would pay someone to do this level of detail thread work. Have fun building this rod. Reed you still need to get one of these andI will have one - - - He he he. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:25:06 EST, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: The other day, Chris Bogart stopped by, and I showed him this rod. Webothagreed, that anyone who owned this rod also had the power to make ReedCurrygive up all his worldly posessions. The rod is simply the best light wetflyrod I have ever handled. It is light and soft, but has just enough buttstrength to cast a reasonable loop. I can't imagine anything better forfishing small soft hackles. If you are persuaded by Reed's arguments,here isa rod to consider. The rod is an F.E. Thomas Special, 3 piece 8 foot fora 4weight line. Sections are 32 1/2" long. The measurements are withvarnishoff. 0- .0625- .07510-.10315-.11820-.13025-.14230-.15335-.16540-.18345- .19250-.20455-.21660-.22865-.23470-.25875-.27480-.28585-.30487- .314 - This is where the grip starts - Ferrules appear to be a 10 anda 15.The rod is an example of Thomas' best work, and is wrapped with fancytrimand intermediates. If anyone wants to go to that kind of trouble, let meknow, and I will send the details from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Dec 29 16:58:24 2000 eBTMwMa14198 eBTMwBx85017; Subject: Re: power fibers Organization: vet Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "one wholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using it patronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are just spoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally none is"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given set ofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for some of us it'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, and inthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit, thanks! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 29 17:07:58 2000 eBTN7wa14482 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Hi Chris,My best friend fishes that rod almost exclusively. His is a browntone withthe samespecs. Every once in awhile I get a chance to play with it for a hour or so....Itisspecial. Reed he's right...you have to try it. And you don't have to limit it towets,it's 8' length makes it very versatile. It's unfortunately under repair rightnow andhe's pining the fact that it may not be ready for opening day. Isn't itamazing the waycertain rods stand out. Rich Colo Chris Bogart wrote: Tom You promised not to tell until I had most of Reed's earthly belongings.I was going to sneak that rod in at Grayling and have some more real funwithReed - I like it when he rises up to the presentation. All kidding aside - this is one great rod that Tom had and a must build rod thatI have seen. The intermediates are quite well done - the spacing progressesfurtherapart as they go away from the tip. Both tips wraps match perfectly - areal workof art - Hey Joe - are you listening - I got an idea for your new helper in hersparetime - I would pay someone to do this level of detail thread work. Have fun building this rod. Reed you still need to get one of these andI will have one - - - He he he. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:25:06 EST, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: The other day, Chris Bogart stopped by, and I showed him this rod. Webothagreed, that anyone who owned this rod also had the power to make ReedCurrygive up all his worldly posessions. The rod is simply the best light wet flyrod I have ever handled. It is light and soft, but has just enough buttstrength to cast a reasonable loop. I can't imagine anything better forfishing small soft hackles. If you are persuaded by Reed's arguments,here isa rod to consider. The rod is an F.E. Thomas Special, 3 piece 8 foot for a4weight line. Sections are 32 1/2" long. The measurements are withvarnish off. 0- .0625- .07510-.10315-.11820-.13025-.14230-.15335-.16540-.18345- .19250-.20455-.21660-.22865-.23470-.25875-.27480-.28585-.30487- .314 - This is where the grip starts - Ferrules appear to be a 10 and a15.The rod is an example of Thomas' best work, and is wrapped with fancytrimand intermediates. If anyone wants to go to that kind of trouble, let meknow, and I will send the details from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Fri Dec 29 17:12:25 2000 eBTNCOa14694 Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper The intermediates are quite well done - the spacing progresses furtherapart as they go away from the tip. Both tips wraps match perfectly - areal workof art - Hey Joe - are you listening - I got an idea for your new helperin her sparetime - I would pay someone to do this level of detail thread work. Chris: Just spoke to her and she says "I'll be the one" (Filipino for I WANT TO DOIT) to do your wrapping. Everyone thinks I'm joking about her helping inthe shop so here's a URL that you can go see for yourselves.http://www.direct- pest.com/rodmaker look under the page "Doe Creek" ontheleft hand side of the screen. Joe from jhewittiii@springsips.com Fri Dec 29 17:15:20 2000 eBTNFJa14902 0000 springsips.com) (63.29.89.244) Subject: Re: Force Taper Stuart,Sorry to hear about the lack of snow in Germany. If you reallyneed a ski fix come on over to Steamboat Springs, Colorado....More than 100inches has fallen already....How come it's so much fun to play in, but sucha pain to shovel out of the driveway???Sorry can't help you with Wayne's Force taper, but I'm sure somebody onthe lest can... stuart moultrie wrote: Hi everybody, I hear a lot of you have got the snow we are supposed to have! Here inBavaria in Germany we are WAITING for it, the skiiers are having a badtime with their nerves.....jump out of bed in the morning, tear open thecurtains....no snow. This time last year we had about 3ft of the stuff. Anyway down to business, can somebody tell me which taper is the Forcetaper from Wayne Cattanachs book? Thanks Stuart from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Dec 29 17:20:10 2000 eBTNKAa15180 Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Tom,Hah! You're trying for just my worldly possessions, you might have donebetter.I do like many of the rods that Mr. Thomas & Co. produced, and can't waittosee this one.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: The other day, Chris Bogart stopped by, and I showed him this rod. We bothagreed, that anyone who owned this rod also had the power to make ReedCurrygive up all his worldly posessions. The rod is simply the best light wet flyrod I have ever handled. It is light and soft, but has just enough buttstrength to cast a reasonable loop. I can't imagine anything better forfishing small soft hackles. If you are persuaded by Reed's arguments, hereisa rod to consider. The rod is an F.E. Thomas Special, 3 piece 8 foot for a 4weight line. Sections are 32 1/2" long. The measurements are with varnishoff. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Dec 29 17:21:14 2000 eBTNLDa15335 Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:21:12 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" ,"TSmithwick@aol.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Joe Then it will be a deal - I will get a rod done ASAP and sendit down your way - Tom will take some pictures of the wraps so she canget them perfect - I have the guide spacing and just the right guides anda perfect agate guide for this rod. It will be a true work of art - Reed - eatyour heart out. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:10:25 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: The intermediates are quite well done - the spacing progresses furtherapart as they go away from the tip. Both tips wraps match perfectly - areal workof art - Hey Joe - are you listening - I got an idea for your new helperin her sparetime - I would pay someone to do this level of detail thread work. Chris: Just spoke to her and she says "I'll be the one" (Filipino for I WANT TO DOIT) to do your wrapping. Everyone thinks I'm joking about her helping inthe shop so here's a URL that you can go see for yourselves.http://www.direct- pest.com/rodmaker look under the page "Doe Creek" ontheleft hand side of the screen. Joe from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Fri Dec 29 17:31:40 2000 eBTNVda15754 Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Chris: Knowing her as well as I do, I can promise you the wraps will be perfect. Joe ----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Joe Then it will be a deal - I will get a rod done ASAP and sendit down your way - Tom will take some pictures of the wraps so she canget them perfect - I have the guide spacing and just the right guides anda perfect agate guide for this rod. It will be a true work of art - Reed -eatyour heart out. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:10:25 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: The intermediates are quite well done - the spacing progresses furtherapart as they go away from the tip. Both tips wraps match perfectly -areal workof art - Hey Joe - are you listening - I got an idea for your newhelperin her sparetime - I would pay someone to do this level of detail thread work. Chris: Just spoke to her and she says "I'll be the one" (Filipino for I WANT TODOIT) to do your wrapping. Everyone thinks I'm joking about her helping inthe shop so here's a URL that you can go see for yourselves.http://www.direct- pest.com/rodmaker look under the page "Doe Creek"ontheleft hand side of the screen. Joe from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Dec 29 17:40:15 2000 eBTNeFa16021 Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:40:14 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" ,"TSmithwick@aol.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Joe Reed - did you hear that!!! Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:29:22 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: Knowing her as well as I do, I can promise you the wraps will be perfect. Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" ; Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 6:20 PMSubject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Joe Then it will be a deal - I will get a rod done ASAP and sendit down your way - Tom will take some pictures of the wraps so she canget them perfect - I have the guide spacing and just the right guides anda perfect agate guide for this rod. It will be a true work of art - Reed -eatyour heart out. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:10:25 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: The intermediates are quite well done - the spacing progressesfurtherapart as they go away from the tip. Both tips wraps match perfectly -areal workof art - Hey Joe - are you listening - I got an idea for your newhelperin her sparetime - I would pay someone to do this level of detail thread work. Chris: Just spoke to her and she says "I'll be the one" (Filipino for I WANT TODOIT) to do your wrapping. Everyone thinks I'm joking about her helping inthe shop so here's a URL that you can go see for yourselves.http://www.direct- pest.com/rodmaker look under the page "Doe Creek"ontheleft hand side of the screen. Joe from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 29 17:58:53 2000 eBTNwqa16478 Subject: Re: power fibers According to my dictionary a professional is one that that makes his living inarts, sports etc., in which amateurs engage.The Garrison method of hand planing was never intended for full timeprofessional use. I am sure Garrison kept his day job and look at the followinghe had at the timeLook back over the last few years and try to remember just how many handplaners have come and gone. Those that are dug in seem to end up preferingtosell equipment rather than concentrate on just rods.There are more guys now making cane rods than there ever was in the goldenera,yet where are these rods? I think we are all bullshitting each other! You caninclude me in with that, Terry petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "one wholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using it patronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are just spoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally none is"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given set ofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for some of usit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, and inthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit, thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry from harms1@pa.net Fri Dec 29 18:02:18 2000 eBU02Ia16699 Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:02:13 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C071C9.CC8C8420 Terry, HORSE MANURE, my man! You speak nonsense. Science will not resolve =this issue one way or the other, though you are surely entitled to your =sawn strips if you believe fiber run-out is cool. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Subject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from =sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C071C9.CC8C8420 Terry, HORSE MANURE,my = Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original = From: "T. Sent: Friday, = 1:19 PMSubject: fibers = ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C071C9.CC8C8420-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 29 18:11:19 2000 eBU0BIa16984 Subject: Re: power fibers I would say that just from a carpal tunnel (sp?) standpoint, anyone who tries to do everything with a hand plane and make a living is asking for trouble. Anyone who is making enough rods to live on needs at least a rough beveller. Don't they?Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 29 18:15:22 2000 eBU0FLa17180 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sv: power fibers I have a 14ft Hardy light Salmon rod that is almost 100 years old and it isarrow straight. The grain also twists and turns showing that the cane hadbeensawn.It is difficult enough to keep a 7ft split and straightened rod looking good Ted Knott wrote: In the chapter on bamboo rod building in the "Wise" Fisherman'sEncyclopedia, 1951 ed., page 956, the author (L. Feirabend, I believe)states that in his opinion "if the sawn angle does not exceed a ratio ofone to twenty; ie, 1/4" in 5", no noticeable ill effect will be manifest inthe finished product either from the standpoint of strength or action." I've had several Heddon rods pass through my hands that were clearly"split" and straightened, or else from incrediblely straight culms. Ithink the Heddons were among the very best of the medium priced rods ofthe50's. On the other hand I have had several Payne rods that were clearly sawn One of my Hardy rods the grain went from one side of the strip to theotherin a distance of 1 1/2" ! I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion. from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 29 18:26:03 2000 eBU0Q3a17486 Subject: Re: power fibers 01D8F0F00B4DACA784DF9D7B" --------------01D8F0F00B4DACA784DF9D7B Bill,I happen to know of a dealer that has to straighten nearly every newrods before he ships! You and I know that if you can straighten a rodwithout bubbling up the finish there is something very wrong!Terry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Terry, HORSE MANURE, my man! You speak nonsense. Science will notresolve this issue one way or the other, though you are surelyentitled to your sawn strips if you believe fiber run-out iscool. cheers,Bill ---------------------------- -------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/----- Original Message -----From: "T. Friday, December 29, 2000 1:19 PMSubject: power fibers > Just read thepseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because theyhaveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using millingmachinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made fromsawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods incollectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method ofmakingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding"science"but.......Terry --------------01D8F0F00B4DACA784DF9D7B Bill,I happen to know of a dealer that has to straighten nearly every newrods before he ships! You and I know that if you can straighten a rod withoutbubbling up the finish there is something very wrong! WILLIAM HARMS wrote: this issue one way or the other, though you are surely entitled to yoursawn strips if you believe fiber run-out is Click here for FreeVideo!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/-----Original Message -----From: <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Sent:Friday, December 29, 2000 1:19 PMSubject: Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner onmillingmachines, veryinaccurate!Hand planers havetosplit and straighten the strips because they haveto follow thegrain,they cannot work it any other way!Professionalrodmakersof the past and present using milling machinesdid not need tofollowthe grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips staystraighterthan those that have been split and a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check themout againstthe hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has amemory andthe chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight isminimal.Just try torememberthat hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you canbutter but....... Terry --------------01D8F0F00B4DACA784DF9D7B-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Dec 29 19:13:33 2000 eBU1DXa18092 Subject: Re: Sv: power fibers Terry, I have a 12' 0" Hardy Gold Medal with patent steel centre. Theserial number on the butt is #246936 which, I believe, makes it pre 1900. It has a 3x3 node spacing and the fibres run perfectly straight. It hassome minor sets, but then it has been well used, and well looked after. Maybe the wire centre has kept it straight all these years? ----------From: T. Ackland Cc: Carsten Jorgensen ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sv: power fibersDate: Friday, December 29, 2000 7:21 PM I have a 14ft Hardy light Salmon rod that is almost 100 years old and itisarrow straight. The grain also twists and turns showing that the cane hadbeensawn.It is difficult enough to keep a 7ft split and straightened rod lookinggood Ted Knott wrote: In the chapter on bamboo rod building in the "Wise" Fisherman'sEncyclopedia, 1951 ed., page 956, the author (L. Feirabend, I believe)states that in his opinion "if the sawn angle does not exceed a ratioofone to twenty; ie, 1/4" in 5", no noticeable ill effect will bemanifest inthe finished product either from the standpoint of strength or action." I've had several Heddon rods pass through my hands that were clearly"split" and straightened, or else from incrediblely straight culms. Ithink the Heddons were among the very best of the medium priced rodsofthe50's. On the other hand I have had several Payne rods that were clearly sawn One of my Hardy rods the grain went from one side of the strip to theotherin a distance of 1 1/2" ! I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 29 19:21:02 2000 eBU1L1a18344 Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Well - I was going to try for your soul, but then I thought Harry might get on my case, and where would I keep it anyway? Sorry to say it is too late for a "before" picture, as I have already stripped the thing, but I will post an "after" shot when I finish the wrap job. Personally, I would never do a full intermediate wrap job on a rod I was going to fish, but there is no denying the elegance of the thing, and if any rod ever deserved a restoration, this one does. from bamboo@pa.net Fri Dec 29 20:00:56 2000 eBU20ta18834 Subject: Invisible wraps This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C071DB.572CBC60 I have just finished sealing wraps on a rod I recently made. I used =Gudebrod 00 White silk and polyurethane to seal. The wraps are for the =most part clear, but there are portions of the wraps that are mottled =where it seems the color white was preserved. Does anyone have any =hints for a better method? Thanks, Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C071DB.572CBC60 wraps that are mottled where it seems the color white was = Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C071DB.572CBC60-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 29 22:46:41 2000 eBU4kda20247 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:46:35 +0800 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:46:33 +0800 Subject: Re: power fibers "'RODMAKERS'" Arguing the toss on what a pro is and isn't is a complete waste of timeespecially when the lines a between an occupation and serious past time areblured as are the lines between jobs are nowadays anyhow. I have no idea asto what my job description is and my hoby interests are anymore for eg.The important issue is the outcome, the most important outcome is thecontinuity of the craft in the face of increasing blandness of pretty mucheverything produced today. The really sad thing is the majority of peoplein an age where pretty much anybody can get pretty much anything and ownmore and better stuff than kings and heads of state did from 20 years agomeans there really is nothing special about much of anything produced anymore. Now the requirement of this outcome is a base of consumers prepared tobuyanything offered and the way to do that is advertise heavily and convinceeverybody the latest offering is the greatest. There is no need to gothrough this on this list because presumably we all want something betterin fly rods at least.The question of where are all the bamboo rods in this latest golden age ofrod makers is moot. I've got to wonder if bamboo rods ever sold in greatnumbers would make any difference to anybody except for the makers ofcheapproduction rods. People inclined to go with advertising would still dotheir "serious" fishing with graphite and the bamboo rod would go mostlyunused just in case they broke it and deep inside they'd "know" you needgraphite for the really big ones.I'm certain decent rods for a mass market could be made but it would be inIndonesia or China not the US. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.IMHO this whole issue of splitting vs sawing and grain runout is a questionwith no answer everybody would be happy with.Again IMHO this is a follow on from the sawing vs riving of wood and has adifferent application than bamboo rods. When you rive a piece of wood forturning for eg the block riven could be at 45 degrees for eg to theoriginal length of wood and it's setup and turned as the smaller block asopposed to sawing a length of wood straight and using the resulting blockwithout regard to grain direction. This is bad practice as failures dooccur done this way.Bamboo is different, the "grain" doesn't wander until it reaches the nodeswhich are points of confusion for the grain then continues to the next nodein a more or less straigh line. The wandering you see during splitting areIMHO just random paths taking the line of least resistance between nodesand not continuation of any "grain". Incidently, I'd have to see it to believe you could saw good strips fasterthan you can split them using the Bob Nunley (pro maker) method. The stipsare also as straight as you want them split this way because of the degreeof control you have during the process. Because there is no real grain there can be no dif between hand planed andmilled strips as far as strength goes.Milled strips are more uniform than hand planed strips can be if done inthe same time and that's the only dif. Does it matter in the end? Maybe to the maker, certainly not to the punterbuying the rod. These guys are paying serious money for mass producedplastic, why would most care even if they knew the dif? Tony At 07:05 PM 12/29/00 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:According to my dictionary a professional is one that that makes hisliving inarts, sports etc., in which amateurs engage.The Garrison method of hand planing was never intended for full timeprofessional use. I am sure Garrison kept his day job and look at thefollowinghe had at the timeLook back over the last few years and try to remember just how manyhandplaners have come and gone. Those that are dug in seem to end upprefering tosell equipment rather than concentrate on just rods.There are more guys now making cane rods than there ever was in thegoldenera,yet where are these rods? I think we are all bullshitting each other! You caninclude me in with that, Terry petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "one wholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using it patronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are just spoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally none is"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given set ofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for some of usit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, and inthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit, thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method ofmakingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri Dec 29 23:59:32 2000 eBU5xWa20830 Subject: Re: power fibers Snipped>> Now the requirement of this outcome is a base of consumers prepared tobuy anything offered and the way to do that is advertise heavily andconvince everybody the latest offering is the greatest. AMEN TONY!! I couldnt agree more , all this crap about image , image is nothing without integrity to back it up. you hit it dead in the 10 ring manJim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Dec 30 05:35:58 2000 eBUBZva23484 sender ) Subject: Re: power fibers Peter, WELL PUT! Marty petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "one wholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using it patronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are just spoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally none is"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given set ofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for some of usit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, and inthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit, thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method of makingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Dec 30 05:40:24 2000 eBUBeNa23706 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Invisible wraps Hi Bill, The first coats of Poly/Varnish should be very thin so you getgood penetration. Marty Bill Taylor wrote: I have just finished sealing wraps on a rod I recently made. I usedGudebrod 00 White silk and polyurethane to seal. The wraps are forthe most part clear, but there are portions of the wraps that aremottled where it seems the color white was preserved. Does anyonehave any hints for a better method? Thanks, Bill --------------4980FFFB75BF3F6B6662947E Hi Bill, The first coats of Poly/Varnish should be very thin so you getgood penetration. MartyBill Taylor wrote: the most part clear, but there are portions of the wraps that are mottled hints for a better method? Thanks, Bill --------------4980FFFB75BF3F6B6662947E-- from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Dec 30 05:45:52 2000 eBUBjpa23901 Subject: Re: Invisible wraps Bill: I use spar that has been thinned by about 20% as the first coat. Depending on the type of poly you're using, you might not be getting the degree of translucency you want. Also, warming it helps the penetration. I keep a small glass vial of the thinned stuff and place it in a cup of hot water for few minutes. --Rich from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sat Dec 30 05:51:36 2000 eBUBpZa24128 Subject: Re: Force Taper I have had help from the list before but never on this scale!! I wrote that we were having no luck with snow yesterday here in Germany andloand behold only a few hours after contacting the list it is snowing. I thinkthat this may be an indication that this list is being read by more than justRodmakers. Did you put in a word for us Harry? Thankyou Stuart John Hewitt wrote: Stuart,Sorry to hear about the lack of snow in Germany. If you reallyneed a ski fix come on over to Steamboat Springs, Colorado....More than100inches has fallen already....How come it's so much fun to play in, but sucha pain to shovel out of the driveway???Sorry can't help you with Wayne's Force taper, but I'm sure somebody onthe lest can... stuart moultrie wrote: Hi everybody, I hear a lot of you have got the snow we are supposed to have! Here inBavaria in Germany we are WAITING for it, the skiiers are having a badtime with their nerves.....jump out of bed in the morning, tear open thecurtains....no snow. This time last year we had about 3ft of the stuff. Anyway down to business, can somebody tell me which taper is the Forcetaper from Wayne Cattanachs book? Thanks Stuart from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sat Dec 30 05:51:38 2000 eBUBpba24132 Subject: 6 sided 18 Strip rod I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, is nowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from a culm. His method is to remove the nodes, split the 18 strips and then planethe pith side of all the strips very flat. The enamel side is also thenplaned down to a flat surface. He then glues 3 of the strips, which atthis point consist only of power fibres, back to back to form a singlestrip. This he does 6 times turning the 18 strips into a "normal" 6strips which are then spliced in the usual nodeless way. It is diffcult to explain without a diagramm but instead of the powerfibres running parrallel to the rod surface they are stacked on theirside. I presume that it is a bit like the difference between trying tobend a strip normally between pith and enamel and trying to bend itsideways, the sideways movement is a lot harder. Then the strips are planed to the taper requirements. Each strip uses a maximum of 1,65 millimeters of the power fibres, hesays that this is because the tensile strength (correct word?) of thesepower fibres is 10,000 Kg/square millimeter whereas the pith has atensile strength of well under 1,000 kg/square millimeter. Therefore heuses only the uppermost power fibre material. According to him thetensile strength of the power fibres decreases abruptly after a 2millimeter depth is reached. He also makes 8 sided rods using the same method but with only 2 stripsbeing glued together (he obviously only uses 16 strips for these rods). Has anybody tried this? Is it silliness? Or is it, as he thinks, the wayto a perfect action for a flyrod using the natural strength of the powerfibres only. I hope you manage to understand what I am trying to describe, perhapssomeone knows of this method and can explain it a little better. Oh yesI also noticed in the article that he has applied for a patent for therods made this way. Stuart from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Dec 30 05:57:03 2000 eBUBv2a24520 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: power fibers Terry, I find it very hard to believe that anyone can make a living and keep adecent standard of living making fly rods weather he has a beveller or not. Imakecane rods for one reason "I love to do it". I know I will never make any morethancigar money doing it . That's why I keep my day job. Marty "T. Ackland" wrote: According to my dictionary a professional is one that that makes his livinginarts, sports etc., in which amateurs engage.The Garrison method of hand planing was never intended for full timeprofessional use. I am sure Garrison kept his day job and look at thefollowinghe had at the timeLook back over the last few years and try to remember just how manyhandplaners have come and gone. Those that are dug in seem to end upprefering tosell equipment rather than concentrate on just rods.There are more guys now making cane rods than there ever was in thegolden era,yet where are these rods? I think we are all bullshitting each other! You caninclude me in with that, Terry petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "onewholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using it patronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are just spoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally none is"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given set ofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for some of usit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, and inthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit, thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because they haveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using milling machinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method ofmakingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Dec 30 06:06:55 2000 eBUC6sa24819 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 13:06:55 +0100 Subject: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod eBUC6ta24820 Stuart have a look on the new issue of "powerfibres" - the article aboutAsbjoern Hoergaard. There You will see a picture of a double built rod piece.Reim does the same, just using 3 layers instead of one. The question is, whether double building transform the action of a giventaper into something else. regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: 6 sided 18 Strip rod I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, is nowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from a culm. His method is to remove the nodes, split the 18 strips and then planethe pith side of all the strips very flat. The enamel side is also thenplaned down to a flat surface. He then glues 3 of the strips, which atthis point consist only of power fibres, back to back to form a singlestrip. This he does 6 times turning the 18 strips into a "normal" 6strips which are then spliced in the usual nodeless way. It is diffcult to explain without a diagramm but instead of the powerfibres running parrallel to the rod surface they are stacked on theirside. I presume that it is a bit like the difference between trying tobend a strip normally between pith and enamel and trying to bend itsideways, the sideways movement is a lot harder. Then the strips are planed to the taper requirements. Each strip uses a maximum of 1,65 millimeters of the power fibres, hesays that this is because the tensile strength (correct word?) of thesepower fibres is 10,000 Kg/square millimeter whereas the pith has atensile strength of well under 1,000 kg/square millimeter. Therefore heuses only the uppermost power fibre material. According to him thetensile strength of the power fibres decreases abruptly after a 2millimeter depth is reached. He also makes 8 sided rods using the same method but with only 2 stripsbeing glued together (he obviously only uses 16 strips for these rods). Has anybody tried this? Is it silliness? Or is it, as he thinks, the wayto a perfect action for a flyrod using the natural strength of the powerfibres only. I hope you manage to understand what I am trying to describe, perhapssomeone knows of this method and can explain it a little better. Oh yesI also noticed in the article that he has applied for a patent for therods made this way. Stuart from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Dec 30 07:11:26 2000 eBUDBPa25448 Subject: comment on the business/hobby Not that I am an expert in rodmaking, I am a raw beginner. but I have had long experience in other hobby interests. particularly Radio Control model aircraft. (about 20 years worth) I have developed a sense of "fun" in my activities. when it is no longer "fun" I don't do it. I began to look into rodmaking because it appeared to be a fine outlet for my interest in craftsmanship. To me at least, pursuing something like building a cane fly rod is simply a matter of wanting to make something that YOU have done. NOt something concocted in a lab. Oh I have Graphite rods, and I fish with them too. But I want my own cane rod. What will it cost me? I have no idea. So far fly fishing has amounted to a ton of money and no return at all. At least not in tangable things like "food or fuel" I have several friends who have pursued a Hobby and turned it into a career, and without exception they seem to have lost something in the process. I myself have done it (I am also a semi-professional/professional magician) I thought that the best job in the world would be to perform magic shows for children full time. It isn't. The SHOWS are fantastic! but 8 years of being my own secretary, taking every single show to make the bills, dealing with the inevetable irate customers, traveling, expenses and all the petty Bull hockey that comes to a business person....well, that takes the fun right out of it. You might as well be selling shoes for all the fun you have.I honestly don't care if I NEVER catch anything on my upcoming rods (though i certainly hope I do!) I want the satisfaction of making it myself and hang the "man hour production costs" If I want to take 6 months towrap the guides, nobody on earth will care but ME! I will probably give the darn things to friends and family anyway!Sorry to spout, but I was a philosophy major in college once many years ago, so my basic job opportunities are limited to "create it yourself", driving a truck, or something that requires me to say, "Do you want fries with that?" Trucking is more steady, gives me time to think and pays awhole lot better than Ronald does.keep on fishin' Have fun and remember, this is a "hobby" eh? mark (in his philosopher hat today!) The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. ~ A.Einstein from anglport@con2.com Sat Dec 30 07:13:07 2000 eBUDD6a25611 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod eBUDD6a25612 Carsten,As I read Stuart's post, Reim stacks the cane, but has the pre- taperedjoints oriented so they will RADIATE from the center of the finished rod,not be parallel to the surface. That would be, to me, a truly radicaldifference from the ordinary set-up. I think you'd see two glue-lines oneach flat of the rod -- an awful lot of glue compared to the acceptedmethods. Maybe the idea is a glue rod with bamboo fillers?(Stuart have a look on the new issue of "powerfibres" - the article aboutAsbjoern Hoergaard. There You will see a picture of a double built rod piece.Reim does the same, just using 3 layers instead of one. The question is, whether double building transform the action of a giventaper into something else. regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- From: stuart moultrie Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 12:51 PMSubject: 6 sided 18 Strip rod I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, is nowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from a culm. His method is to remove the nodes, split the 18 strips and then planethe pith side of all the strips very flat. The enamel side is also thenplaned down to a flat surface. He then glues 3 of the strips, which atthis point consist only of power fibres, back to back to form a singlestrip. This he does 6 times turning the 18 strips into a "normal" 6strips which are then spliced in the usual nodeless way. It is diffcult to explain without a diagramm but instead of the powerfibres running parrallel to the rod surface they are stacked on theirside. I presume that it is a bit like the difference between trying tobend a strip normally between pith and enamel and trying to bend itsideways, the sideways movement is a lot harder. Then the strips are planed to the taper requirements. Each strip uses a maximum of 1,65 millimeters of the power fibres, hesays that this is because the tensile strength (correct word?) of thesepower fibres is 10,000 Kg/square millimeter whereas the pith has atensile strength of well under 1,000 kg/square millimeter. Therefore heuses only the uppermost power fibre material. According to him thetensile strength of the power fibres decreases abruptly after a 2millimeter depth is reached. He also makes 8 sided rods using the same method but with only 2 stripsbeing glued together (he obviously only uses 16 strips for these rods). Has anybody tried this? Is it silliness? Or is it, as he thinks, the wayto a perfect action for a flyrod using the natural strength of the powerfibres only. I hope you manage to understand what I am trying to describe, perhapssomeone knows of this method and can explain it a little better. Oh yesI also noticed in the article that he has applied for a patent for therods made this way. Stuart from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sat Dec 30 07:14:02 2000 eBUDE1a25773 Subject: Re: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod Hi Carsten. Yes I saw the article in power fibres but no it is not the same. I know whatyoumean by triple built but as I wrote it is difficult to describe. He doesn't lay the strips one on top of another but more like this !!! nextto each other or back to back. The strips are on their side and then planedsothat the middle strip forms the centre apex like this V this means thatthepower fibres are not parrallel to the rod surface but are on their side. I haveto take the kids to the cinema (jungle book) so perhaps I can try and draw itinCorel draw later and send you an attachment. Stuart Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Stuart have a look on the new issue of "powerfibres" - the article aboutAsbjoern Hoergaard. There You will see a picture of a double built rod piece.Reim does the same, just using 3 layers instead of one. The question is, whether double building transform the action of a giventaper into something else. regards, carsten ----- Original Message -----From: stuart moultrie Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 12:51 PMSubject: 6 sided 18 Strip rod I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, is nowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from a culm. His method is to remove the nodes, split the 18 strips and then planethe pith side of all the strips very flat. The enamel side is also thenplaned down to a flat surface. He then glues 3 of the strips, which atthis point consist only of power fibres, back to back to form a singlestrip. This he does 6 times turning the 18 strips into a "normal" 6strips which are then spliced in the usual nodeless way. It is diffcult to explain without a diagramm but instead of the powerfibres running parrallel to the rod surface they are stacked on theirside. I presume that it is a bit like the difference between trying tobend a strip normally between pith and enamel and trying to bend itsideways, the sideways movement is a lot harder. Then the strips are planed to the taper requirements. Each strip uses a maximum of 1,65 millimeters of the power fibres, hesays that this is because the tensile strength (correct word?) of thesepower fibres is 10,000 Kg/square millimeter whereas the pith has atensile strength of well under 1,000 kg/square millimeter. Therefore heuses only the uppermost power fibre material. According to him thetensile strength of the power fibres decreases abruptly after a 2millimeter depth is reached. He also makes 8 sided rods using the same method but with only 2 stripsbeing glued together (he obviously only uses 16 strips for these rods). Has anybody tried this? Is it silliness? Or is it, as he thinks, the wayto a perfect action for a flyrod using the natural strength of the powerfibres only. I hope you manage to understand what I am trying to describe, perhapssomeone knows of this method and can explain it a little better. Oh yesI also noticed in the article that he has applied for a patent for therods made this way. Stuart from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 30 07:38:30 2000 eBUDcTa26175 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 08:38:21 -0500 "hexagon@odyssee.net" ,"petermckean" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: power fibers --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_ Bob Let get this straight - "anyone who tries to make a living from Rodmaking is asking for trouble!" Should be the phrase. As far as carpal tunnel - a lot of what I see as problems isa matter of using poor mechanics and form by rodmakers when theyplane that puts stress on the arm. Then there is always the good genes bad genes theory. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:01:53 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: I would say that just from a carpal tunnel (sp?) standpoint, anyone who tries to do everything with a hand plane and make a living is asking for trouble. Anyone who is making enough rods to live on needs at least a rough beveller. Don't they?Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_ Bob Let get this straight - "anyone who tries to make a living from Rodmaking is asking for trouble!" Should be thephrase. As far as carpal tunnel - a lot of what I see as problems isa matter of using poor mechanics and form by rodmakers when theyplane that puts stress on the arm. Then there is always the good genes bad genes theory. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 19:01:53 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: rough --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 30 07:43:27 2000 eBUDhQa26400 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 08:43:26 -0500 "TSmithwick@aol.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Tom I have this nice old large Mason jar that Reed's soul wouldlook good in. You could put it on your fireplace mantel and at nite itwould glow slightly and would would swear that there are two littlebeady eyes in there looking longfully at the rod. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:20:53 EST, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Hah! You're trying for just my worldly possessions, you might have donebetter. >> Well - I was going to try for your soul, but then I thought Harry might get on my case, and where would I keep it anyway? Sorry to say it is too late a "before" picture, as I have already stripped the thing, but I will post an "after" shot when I finish the wrap job. Personally, I would never do a full intermediate wrap job on a rod I was going to fish, but there is no denying the elegance of the thing, and if any rod ever deserved a restoration, this one does. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Dec 30 07:45:35 2000 eBUDjZa26579 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:45:25 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: power fibers Yes if I could just instill that in my kids now I wouldn't have these stupidFurbies and Poo-chi toys running around the house driving me insane! :^) Shawn Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: Snipped>> Now the requirement of this outcome is a base of consumers preparedtobuy anything offered and the way to do that is advertise heavily andconvince everybody the latest offering is the greatest. AMEN TONY!!I couldnt agree more , all this crap about image , image is nothingwithout integrity to back it up. you hit it dead in the 10 ring manJim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Dec 30 07:59:24 2000 eBUDxNa26941 Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Chris: If Rose is going to do the intermediates on the rod then shouldn't we get aportion of Reed's wealth? I think at least a silk line since I have alwayscoveted one, but have never sprang for one. Reed, if your listening; I started teaching Rose to wrap last night. Shegrasped the concept real well, and I think I'll let her finish wrapping the3 pc 2 tip that I am finishing now. I showed her how to tip and damn it sheis better than I am at tipping, but of course her hands are about half thesize of mine. Chris is right, we could make a business for her doing this "Rose's WrappingService". Just send your blanks down here and she'll wrap em for you. Whatshould we charge for this Chris? Joe ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Tom I have this nice old large Mason jar that Reed's soul wouldlook good in. You could put it on your fireplace mantel and at nite itwould glow slightly and would would swear that there are two littlebeady eyes in there looking longfully at the rod. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:20:53 EST, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Hah! You're trying for just my worldly possessions, you might havedonebetter. >> Well - I was going to try for your soul, but then I thought Harry mightgeton my case, and where would I keep it anyway? Sorry to say it is too latefora "before" picture, as I have already stripped the thing, but I will postan"after" shot when I finish the wrap job. Personally, I would never do afullintermediate wrap job on a rod I was going to fish, but there is nodenyingthe elegance of the thing, and if any rod ever deserved a restoration,thisone does. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 30 08:03:33 2000 eBUE3Wa27146 ;Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:03:29 +0000 , Subject: Re: Annual Christmas survey I don't know if I would want to put a propane heater in an outhouse unlessyou are thinking of making a fast trip somewhere.jack from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 30 08:18:46 2000 eBUEIja28563 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:18:46 -0500 "stuart.rod@gmx.de" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: 6 sided 18 Strip rod Stuart In one way this could be called a triple built butt. But rod to get extra strength and power. The Trick would be to do the 18 strips normally, Plane them down and stagger the splices in the laminated strips to give each other that extra support. That would be the was to go. I would try this on one of those 8' + rods people want for larger fish and steelhead. There would be lots of power and strength there. Chris On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:51:53 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote: I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, is nowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from a culm. His method is to remove the nodes, split the 18 strips and then planethe pith side of all the strips very flat. The enamel side is also thenplaned down to a flat surface. He then glues 3 of the strips, which atthis point consist only of power fibres, back to back to form a singlestrip. This he does 6 times turning the 18 strips into a "normal" 6strips which are then spliced in the usual nodeless way. It is diffcult to explain without a diagramm but instead of the powerfibres running parrallel to the rod surface they are stacked on theirside. I presume that it is a bit like the difference between trying tobend a strip normally between pith and enamel and trying to bend itsideways, the sideways movement is a lot harder. Then the strips are planed to the taper requirements. Each strip uses a maximum of 1,65 millimeters of the power fibres, hesays that this is because the tensile strength (correct word?) of thesepower fibres is 10,000 Kg/square millimeter whereas the pith has atensile strength of well under 1,000 kg/square millimeter. Therefore heuses only the uppermost power fibre material. According to him thetensile strength of the power fibres decreases abruptly after a 2millimeter depth is reached. He also makes 8 sided rods using the same method but with only 2 stripsbeing glued together (he obviously only uses 16 strips for these rods). Has anybody tried this? Is it silliness? Or is it, as he thinks, the wayto a perfect action for a flyrod using the natural strength of the powerfibres only. I hope you manage to understand what I am trying to describe, perhapssomeone knows of this method and can explain it a little better. Oh yesI also noticed in the article that he has applied for a patent for therods made this way. Stuart from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 30 08:27:30 2000 eBUERTa29039 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:27:29 -0500 ,"TSmithwick@aol.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Joe I am sure we can secure a least one fine silk like in this deal can also siphon off a portion for you - they make the mason jars in varioussizes - even little ones with handles - I think he would look kind of cutein there. Really on the wrapping service - you might get with some ofyour local fly shops who get restorations and repairs in and that mightbe a good way to start and it would probably pay a bit better. But I am sure there will be guys on the list who hate wrappingrods and are all thumbs at it who will contact you. A restoration orreproductionwith intermediates is a daunting task. Chris On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 08:57:05 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Chris: If Rose is going to do the intermediates on the rod then shouldn't we get aportion of Reed's wealth? I think at least a silk line since I have alwayscoveted one, but have never sprang for one. Reed, if your listening; I started teaching Rose to wrap last night. Shegrasped the concept real well, and I think I'll let her finish wrapping the3 pc 2 tip that I am finishing now. I showed her how to tip and damn it sheis better than I am at tipping, but of course her hands are about half thesize of mine. Chris is right, we could make a business for her doing this "Rose's WrappingService". Just send your blanks down here and she'll wrap em for you. Whatshould we charge for this Chris? Joe ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 8:42 AMSubject: Re: Wet Fly Taper Tom I have this nice old large Mason jar that Reed's soul wouldlook good in. You could put it on your fireplace mantel and at nite itwould glow slightly and would would swear that there are two littlebeady eyes in there looking longfully at the rod. Chris On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:20:53 EST, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Hah! You're trying for just my worldly possessions, you might havedonebetter. >> Well - I was going to try for your soul, but then I thought Harry mightgeton my case, and where would I keep it anyway? Sorry to say it is too latefora "before" picture, as I have already stripped the thing, but I will postan"after" shot when I finish the wrap job. Personally, I would never do afullintermediate wrap job on a rod I was going to fish, but there is nodenyingthe elegance of the thing, and if any rod ever deserved a restoration,thisone does. from everhart@midusa.net Sat Dec 30 08:37:27 2000 eBUEbQa29405 0600 Subject: rod refinishing a friend has and old cane rod from his father. he just wants to preserve itand clean it up. what's the best thing to use to clean it and alsopreserve it. the tip section has a slight bend. can this be straightened from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Dec 30 08:49:38 2000 eBUEnaa29688 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 15:49:38 +0100 Subject: Sv: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod eBUEnba29689 OK wise guys, even I finally got it:-) Impression of the moment: rods made this waywill be heavy and rigid. I am not sure the taperscan be recognized - perhaps one or 2 #'s up. regards, Carsten from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Dec 30 08:58:39 2000 eBUEwca29985 eBUEwea08593; eBUEwbd83794; Subject: Re: 6 sided 18 Strip rod Hi Stuart, thanks for sharing that. The method you describe is inovative but seems to have little advantage overtraditional double-built hex-rods except that you don't have to remove asmuch power fiber to flatten the crown. As Art points out, there's a lot ofglue involved, especially if the strips aren't PD flat. Did the author sayhow he machined them? Electric mill/planer? Drum sander? I could see the method used to advantage in quads though! Think how thatwould look with a mixture of brown and blond strips! One piece quads couldstart with lots of laminations at the butt and end with just a few at thetip. Could you elaborate on "remove the nodes"? How does he scarf, splice,stagger, and laminate the three strips? Also, I guess he must use fewer strips in his mid and tip sections. Whatweight/length rods were these? BTW Happy New Year all, Jim U I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, is nowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from aculm.---------snip-------- from sats@gte.net Sat Dec 30 09:03:22 2000 eBUF3La00204 ; id IAA84412202 ABLEON1@aol.com, afurney@tampabay.rr.com, tightloop@webtv.net,dkamp@citcom.net, eeenlow@grove.net, "the Wolf",flytying@zianet.comSubject: Out for the New Year. Well, I'm outa here for the new year. Looks like the neighbors are planning an all-nighter, so the wife and I areheaded for the "frozen north." Ocala. Temps should be between mid 20sand low50s. Wind's about 20 to 30 out of the northwest. Taking along lot's ofclothing, (No shorts) books and some of those store bought logs for thefireplace. Should be snuggling weather. I may throw in a rod or two, just in case. ( That fast 5wt Dave lewis built forme might be just the ticket. Looks like the bamboo will stay in the tubes thistime.) Happy New year all.---Marge and Terry KirkpatrickOn Old Tampa BaySafety Harbor, Fl.Sats@gte.netMeet us at http://home1.gte.net/vzn05zew from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Dec 30 09:28:50 2000 eBUFSna00617 Subject: Re: power fibers In a message dated 12/30/00 8:39:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, cbogart@shentel.net writes: ChrisOn the other hand, there are many good points to trying to do this for a living. No, the money is not that great, but that is really a matter of sitting around at this machine instead of being in my shop making rods, as a matter of fact as soon as I finish a rod that is not spoken for, it sells very quickly (but most are spoken for).Now for the good points. #1 I am spending some irreplaceable time watching my two beautiful children learn the in & outs of pre school and bus rides, something that most dads will never know. #2 I have a great wife that likes her job and is behind me 100%. #3 I live on and own a very productive section of trout stream that has very intense hatches of every mayfly and caddis know to the eastern states, that I can fish whenever the mood strikes me, and no I don't live on a trust fund. #4 I don't feel the pressure of my used to be job and all the stress related problems that came with it. The only stress I feel now is from people who judge me and others with the guts and determination to make rods for a living for what they think we make in dollars. It isn't just money that makes you rich ( see #1& 2 ). #5 I love the thought of someone fishing with one of my rods and having the time of their life with it, kind of funny and a little pathetic when most of them make at least five times what I do, and trips to the stream seem tomake more sense than cell phonesand titanium. #6 The only time I use a cell phone is to call my friends and family to find out what's hatching or what's for dinner! #7 The only one looking over my shoulder is me and the IRS. Well, for me the list is a little more extensive than this, craft and art (although some would say B. S) is also a part of it. As for asking for trouble, what is going to happen, will the rod police come and kill me or throw me in jail or will I simply have to go back to my old stressful job a few thousand dollars in debt.Joseph (will make rods for food) Perrigo from tjwilhelm@carolina.rr.com Sat Dec 30 09:39:39 2000 eBUFdca00917 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 10:37:49 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers The discussion of professional vs. amateur failed to include a third andhigher category of rod maker, of which I am a member. I am a Wannabee.Even the most skilled of you must admit that the best of your rods can onlybe near perfect. I, as a wannabee, am able to make perfect rods every time.My tapers are such that you merely have to wish the rod to cast and it does.The finishes on my rods are as fine and flawless as a baby's skin. My nameis up there with the immortals: Payne, Young, Garrison, Wilhelm. If I wereto look out of my window now, I fully expect to see a line outside the shopdoor of eager customers willing to pay a king's ransom for one of mymasterpieces. I am a Wannabee! I will receive my first order of bamboo in January and my status as awannabee will be lost. My workmanship will suffer and the line outside myshop will dissolve like the mist. You can't be a wannabee forever. Why would I want to make my own bamboo rods? I can't tell you, I don't evenfish bamboo (yet). Before my first rod is completed, I'll easily have thecost of 2 or 3 of the finest rods available sunk in tools, materials, etc.Wouldn't it be smarter to buy? I suppose so, but I had to build my owngraphite rods, I had to brew my own beer. Heaven forbid that I would everwant to go to the moon, no telling what I'd have to build then. (Anyonehave plans?) I've lurked about for a couple months now and thanks for letting me be amember of the list. Your open discussion and sharing of ideas has taught mea lot including that I have a lot to learn. Maybe one day I'll be able toadd something of value or interest. Hopefully I'll get a chance to meetsome of you at future gatherings. As for those Wannabee rods, act now for there are only a limited numberleftand they can be shipped free anywhere. ;) Best wishes to all in the coming year.Tim Wilhelm from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Dec 30 09:41:15 2000 eBUFfEa01111 Subject: wet fly taper .187 high, the mid guides are all .220. All are English pattern, typical of Thomas until about 1930. The stripper is an Agate, with a .140 ID.The handle is all cork ring and cap 8 1/2" long, in a "superfine" type shape. The seat area is 3" long, .700 diameter. The grip then tapers up to a .950 diameter 2 1/2" behind the winding check, then tapers down to the diameterof the check.The check has a built in hookkeeper ring, and is really nifty. I wish these were available somewhere. It's about .390 OD, .187 wide, and has been slightly "hexed" to fit the blank. A small eye holds the hookkeeper ring. It is so tiny, and so well done, that I first thought the eye was part of the ring. There is no evidence of solder at all. Upon looking very closely, it now appears that the eye is formed from a wire drilled through the middle of the band, and bent forward to make the loop. It must be fastened on the band's ID somehow, I guess with solder. So no windings are necessary for a hookkeeper, a very neat and simple way to go. from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Dec 30 09:46:56 2000 eBUFkta01365 Subject: Re: power fibers Bob Just an outstanding job on the second issue, the mag is great keep up all you hard work.Joe from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 30 10:00:22 2000 eBUG0La01664 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 11:00:22 -0500 (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: power fibers Joe You are right if you accept the fact there are no self mademillionaire rodmakers that I know of - so for one who will make rodsfor foodyou have grasped the concept very well. And as one who just survived a IRS tax audit (successfully) on therodmakingbusiness you get to the point of asking where is the fun, then you discoverthat you can capture someones soul in a mason jar then it becomes funagain. Chris On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 10:28:30 EST, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/30/00 8:39:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, cbogart@shentel.net writes: from Rodmaking is asking for trouble!" Should be the phrase. >> ChrisOn the other hand, there are many good points to trying to do this for a living. No, the money is not that great, but that is really a matter of sitting around at this machine instead of being in my shop making rods, as a matter of fact as soon as I finish a rod that is not spoken for, it sells very quickly (but most are spoken for).Now for the good points. #1 I am spending some irreplaceable time watching my two beautiful children learn the in & outs of pre schooland bus rides, something that most dads will never know. #2 I have a greatwife that likes her job and is behind me 100%. #3 I live on and own a very productive section of trout stream that has very intense hatches of every mayfly and caddis know to the eastern states, that I can fish whenever the mood strikes me, and no I don't live on a trust fund. #4 I don't feel the pressure of my used to be job and all the stress related problems thatcame with it. The only stress I feel now is from people who judge me and others with the guts and determination to make rods for a living for what theythink we make in dollars. It isn't just money that makes you rich ( see #1& 2 ).#5 I love the thought of someone fishing with one of my rods and having the time of their life with it, kind of funny and a little pathetic when most of them make at least five times what I do, and trips to the stream seem tomake more sense than cell phonesand titanium. #6 The only time I use a cell phone is to call my friends and family to find out what's hatching or what's for dinner! #7 The only one looking over my shoulder is me and the IRS. Well, for me the list is a little more extensive than this, craft and art (although some would say B. S) is also a part of it. As for asking for trouble, what is going to happen, will the rod police come and kill me or throw me in jail or will I simply have to go back to my old stressful job a few thousand dollars in debt.Joseph (will make rods for food) Perrigo from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Dec 30 10:06:20 2000 eBUG6Ja01948 IAA21688 Subject: heat guns Hi all, Perhaps someone can shed some light on this matter for me. I have on ofthose Milwaukee 2000-D heat guns. According to some posts in the listarchives, it is not a Milwaukee, but a Wagner. That is not important, butwhat is is the difficulty I've had with softening cane strips with it.Basically, what is happening is the cane is not softening( with many triedand tested varied settings, lengths of time, and distances from the strip),until it gets charred and browned. I understand there will be some monorcharring or browning of the pith. The strips are 1/4" so they should softenup without any problems. According to a post in the list archives, by John Zimny I believe, the caneshould soften before there is any browning and charring. Now, I am assumingthat he meant anywhere on the node/strip since power fibers would bedestroyed at this point. Even if crucial power fibers aren't destroyed, thecolor of the node is discolored enough to leave the strip unuseable forrods that are not flamed. On another note: is "The Bamboo Fly Rod" still being published? Thanks all and Happy New Year, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 30 10:27:05 2000 eBUGR4a02541 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:26:59 +0800 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:26:56 +0800 Subject: Bench height "hexagon@odyssee.net" ,"petermckean" ,"RODMAKERS" I had carpal tunnel problems myself when I was in my late teens. I think itwas from a combination of rock climbing and cycling a couple hundred miles aweek.There are no shock absorbers on road bikes and gloves only help so far. Allthetraining and climbing makes your hands very strong but it also causes carpaltunnel problems.Anyhow because I have had this problem and don't want it again I look intoproper posture while working with hand tools. Personaly, I think people make work benches too high. The best height forhandplaning is to have the bench top some where between the height with yourarmshanging loosely with your thumbs sticking out. Thumbs height is the maximum height of the work surface down to aboutwhereyour finger tips reach.This means you have to bend your back to plane so the stroke is more orlessdone with your back, shoulder and elbow, the elbow is kept low. Too high andyou have to use too much elbow which is cocked too high for comfort. It alsomakes you use your hand in an awkward manner. Bench height is a personal thing and while you can get used to an incorrectheight it may cause excessive fatigue or damage in the long run. Tony Chris sez..... As far as carpal tunnel - a lot of what I see as problems isa matter of using poor mechanics and form by rodmakers when theyplane that puts stress on the arm. Then there is always the good genes bad genes theory. Chris /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Dec 30 11:15:21 2000 eBUHFKa03193 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Garrison video I was wondering if anyone had seen the New(??) Garrison video byHoagy Carmichael that was advertised in the Planing form recently. Is itany good??I have become a cautious consumer when buying stuff from the U.S.Having been burnt on numerous occasions, I am hesitant to lay out $50+Canadian on a video unless I know it's worth it and I will actuallyreceive it.This is nothing bad against U.S products (it is where I must get 90%of my rod stuff and I am very happy with most of it) , it is simply aquestion about a product and the state of the Canadian vs. Americandollar. Any help would be greatly appreciated , Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Dec 30 11:17:41 2000 eBUHHea03373 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:17:36 -0800 Subject: Re: power fibers Tim,Welcome aboard! And I love what you say, but disagree strongly at onepoint. The dreams of a wannabe rodmaker don't have to die. Though I'vebuiltdozens of rods, the dream is still alive and well. Not the dream of gettingrich, but the dream of achieving something close to perfection. Hopefullyeachrod I build brings me a little closer, but I suspect that I'll never quiteachieve all that I'm looking for.My grandfather used to say, "Better to shoot for a star and hit a stumpthanshoot for a stump and hit the dirt." Still shooting for the stars,Harry tjwilhelm wrote: The discussion of professional vs. amateur failed to include a third andhigher category of rod maker, of which I am a member. I am a Wannabee.Even the most skilled of you must admit that the best of your rods canonlybe near perfect. I, as a wannabee, am able to make perfect rods everytime.My tapers are such that you merely have to wish the rod to cast and itdoes.The finishes on my rods are as fine and flawless as a baby's skin. My nameis up there with the immortals: Payne, Young, Garrison, Wilhelm. If I wereto look out of my window now, I fully expect to see a line outside the shopdoor of eager customers willing to pay a king's ransom for one of mymasterpieces. I am a Wannabee! I will receive my first order of bamboo in January and my status as awannabee will be lost. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from sats@gte.net Sat Dec 30 11:35:05 2000 eBUHZ4a03702 Subject: Changed my mind I think I will take a 6ft 6wt that was the first "bandy" I ever built. Mightwork out.----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/vzn05zew from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Dec 30 11:36:42 2000 eBUHafa03883 Subject: Lamination Methods All,While Chris, Joe, and Tom were scouring the countryside for Masonjars small enough to contain my soul, I was busily scanning in thevarious bizarre strip building methods recorded by Geo. L. Herter. Lookunder Extracts on my website....and Chris, why not something in stained-glass, then I can addsome color to the room. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Dec 30 11:38:39 2000 eBUHcca04105 Subject: test Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Dec 30 11:40:05 2000 eBUHe4a04320 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:40:03 -0800 Subject: Re: rod refinishing Joy,Use some mild soap and warm water to clean it up. If it needs morecleaningthan that, then you'll need to tell us more about the rod. A small percentageof old rods are very valuable, and should not be tampered with by well-meaningyet inexperienced owners.Very mild dry heat, like from two or three seconds over a hair dryer, canbeused to straighten the cane. Check out either Stuart Kirkfield's or MichaelSinclair's book through your local library for further information. Or tell uswhere you are, and we can probably recommend a maker or restorer closeby. Harry Boyd Joy Everhart wrote: a friend has and old cane rod from his father. he just wants to preserve itand clean it up. what's the best thing to use to clean it and alsopreserve it. the tip section has a slight bend. can this be straightened from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Dec 30 11:44:31 2000 eBUHiUa04604 Subject: Re: Garrison video Shawn:I purchased the video several months ago and received it promptly (I'm in SEUSA). I enjoyed the contents.Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Garrison video I was wondering if anyone had seen the New(??) Garrison video byHoagy Carmichael that was advertised in the Planing form recently. Is itany good??I have become a cautious consumer when buying stuff from the U.S.Having been burnt on numerous occasions, I am hesitant to lay out $50+Canadian on a video unless I know it's worth it and I will actuallyreceive it.This is nothing bad against U.S products (it is where I must get 90%of my rod stuff and I am very happy with most of it) , it is simply aquestion about a product and the state of the Canadian vs. Americandollar. Any help would be greatly appreciated , Shawn from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Dec 30 11:46:59 2000 eBUHkwa04842 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:46:59 +0100 Subject: Sv: heat guns eBUHkxa04843 Frank My best guess is that You hold the bamboo too close tothe mouth of the heat gun, so that the bamboo is burnedvery fast - in fact before heat is transferred through allthe bamboo regards, Carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: heat guns Hi all, Perhaps someone can shed some light on this matter for me. I have on ofthose Milwaukee 2000-D heat guns. According to some posts in the listarchives, it is not a Milwaukee, but a Wagner. That is not important, butwhat is is the difficulty I've had with softening cane strips with it.Basically, what is happening is the cane is not softening( with many triedand tested varied settings, lengths of time, and distances from the strip),until it gets charred and browned. I understand there will be some monorcharring or browning of the pith. The strips are 1/4" so they should softenup without any problems. According to a post in the list archives, by John Zimny I believe, the caneshould soften before there is any browning and charring. Now, I amassumingthat he meant anywhere on the node/strip since power fibers would bedestroyed at this point. Even if crucial power fibers aren't destroyed, thecolor of the node is discolored enough to leave the strip unuseable forrods that are not flamed. On another note: is "The Bamboo Fly Rod" still being published? Thanks all and Happy New Year, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from downandx@buffnet.net Sat Dec 30 11:48:51 2000 eBUHmoa05022 Subject: got bumped Anyone feel like sending me any of today's messages? My address is in limbo whole it switches ISPs, and I missed a whole bunch of stuff from Saturdaymorn.Many thanks,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from DEMARALON@aol.com Sat Dec 30 12:28:45 2000 eBUISja05735 Subject: Greetings With approximately 16 inches of snow already on the ground and no indication of subsiding, from our home with fireplace glowing we send to each and every one of you rodmakers and would-be rodmakers - those we know and those welook forward to meeting - our best wishes for a very Happy New Year filled to overflowing with good health and happiness. AND we are happy to announce the arrival of a container of prime, matureand well-seasoned Tonkin Cane. This shipment from our "tried and true" supplier is of the consistent high quality as required by beginners and expected by the experienced rodmakers. Harold and Eileen Demarest Our website: www.tonkincane.com from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sat Dec 30 12:52:12 2000 eBUIqBa06146 Subject: Re: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod Hey Art, Why didn't I think of saying it like that? You are right there will be 2 glue-lines on each of the flats. The articlementions something about being able to use the power fibres completelywithoutloss of power but does not go into detail. I think that it is an interesting idea........but is it worth it. Stuart Art Port wrote: Carsten,As I read Stuart's post, Reim stacks the cane, but has the pre- taperedjoints oriented so they will RADIATE from the center of the finished rod,not be parallel to the surface. That would be, to me, a truly radicaldifference from the ordinary set-up. I think you'd see two glue-lines oneach flat of the rod -- an awful lot of glue compared to the acceptedmethods. Maybe the idea is a glue rod with bamboo fillers?( Art At 01:12 PM 12/30/2000 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Stuart have a look on the new issue of "powerfibres" - the article aboutAsbjoern Hoergaard. There You will see a picture of a double built rodpiece.Reim does the same, just using 3 layers instead of one. The question is, whether double building transform the action of a giventaper into something else. regards, carsten ----- Original Message -----From: stuart moultrie Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 12:51 PMSubject: 6 sided 18 Strip rod I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, is nowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from a culm. His method is to remove the nodes, split the 18 strips and then planethe pith side of all the strips very flat. The enamel side is also thenplaned down to a flat surface. He then glues 3 of the strips, which atthis point consist only of power fibres, back to back to form a singlestrip. This he does 6 times turning the 18 strips into a "normal" 6strips which are then spliced in the usual nodeless way. It is diffcult to explain without a diagramm but instead of the powerfibres running parrallel to the rod surface they are stacked on theirside. I presume that it is a bit like the difference between trying tobend a strip normally between pith and enamel and trying to bend itsideways, the sideways movement is a lot harder. Then the strips are planed to the taper requirements. Each strip uses a maximum of 1,65 millimeters of the power fibres, hesays that this is because the tensile strength (correct word?) of thesepower fibres is 10,000 Kg/square millimeter whereas the pith has atensile strength of well under 1,000 kg/square millimeter. Therefore heuses only the uppermost power fibre material. According to him thetensile strength of the power fibres decreases abruptly after a 2millimeter depth is reached. He also makes 8 sided rods using the same method but with only 2stripsbeing glued together (he obviously only uses 16 strips for these rods). Has anybody tried this? Is it silliness? Or is it, as he thinks, the wayto a perfect action for a flyrod using the natural strength of the powerfibres only. I hope you manage to understand what I am trying to describe, perhapssomeone knows of this method and can explain it a little better. Oh yesI also noticed in the article that he has applied for a patent for therods made this way. Stuart from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sat Dec 30 13:00:32 2000 eBUJ0Va06478 Subject: Re: 6 sided 18 Strip rod Jim, Sorry but the article didn't mention how he scarved or how he removedthe enamelto get such a flat surface although it does say the planing is done on aspecialmachine (could be a case of embaressment about using power tools). It isone ofthose typical brief write ups you get about rodmaking in a generalflyfishingmagazine, it does not have a lot of depth. He does say that his 100throd leftthe shop recently and the article is from 1998. The other thing he does as far as I can gather is to attach a Solitip(?) to thetop of the tip section. I presume this is a graphite tip extention.Perhaps themany strip tips didn't hold up to being planed down as small as wasneeded. He makes rods for 5 weight lines 2.20 meters long for dry fly fishing.So Isuppose they must be fairly light, perhaps the rigidity that Carstenmentionedis offset by the graphite tip and the heaviness by a different approachtotapers, but it isn't mentioned in the article. Stuart Jim Utzerath wrote: Hi Stuart, thanks for sharing that. The method you describe is inovative but seems to have littleadvantage overtraditional double-built hex-rods except that you don't have to removeasmuch power fiber to flatten the crown. As Art points out, there's alot ofglue involved, especially if the strips aren't PD flat. Did theauthor sayhow he machined them? Electric mill/planer? Drum sander? I could see the method used to advantage in quads though! Think howthatwould look with a mixture of brown and blond strips! One piece quadscouldstart with lots of laminations at the butt and end with just a few atthetip. Could you elaborate on "remove the nodes"? How does he scarf, splice, stagger, and laminate the three strips? Also, I guess he must use fewer strips in his mid and tip sections.Whatweight/length rods were these? BTW Happy New Year all, Jim U I read an article in a German Flyfishing magazine (which sadly, isnowno longer available) about a rodmaker called Ludwig Reim who makes 6 sided nodless rods out of 18 strips split from aculm.---------snip-------- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Dec 30 13:10:33 2000 eBUJAWa06752 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: power fibers Terry, I find it very hard to believe that anyone can make aliving and keep adecent standard of living making fly rods weather he has abeveller or not. With graphite rods pushing the $700-800 price range, I think many buyerswould be prepared to spend the same amount on a good cane rod. OneproblemI see, however, is distribution. There are a handful of fly shops in mycity and only rarely will you find one with cane rods on display. Our bigdowntown Orvis shop doesn't stock bamboo rods (although the Orvis catalogcontinues to include them), nor does the Sage/G. Loomis shop two blocksaway. I suspect there's quite a bit of pressure on retailers to keep bamboorods off the retail shelves. Distributors such as Len Codella can sell rodsbut, when sold through a mail order catalog, bamboo rods remain largely outof site for the average fisherman. If these rods were in the shops,prospective buyers could flex them, oggle the finish, etc. and wouldeventually succumb to their allure. Richard from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Dec 30 13:16:15 2000 eBUJGFa06986 2000 11:16:17 PST Subject: Re: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod --- stuart moultrie wrote:stuart, as we are unprofessional amateur, hobbiests.let's someone give it try for a kick. sounds to me itcould be a good showoff rod. timothy Hey Art, Why didn't I think of saying it like that? You are right there will be 2 glue-lines on each ofthe flats. The articlementions something about being able to use the powerfibres completely withoutloss of power but does not go into detail. I think that it is an interesting idea........but isit worth it. Stuart ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Dec 30 13:17:04 2000 eBUJH3a07104 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod Impression of the moment: rods made this waywill be heavy and rigid. I am not sure the taperscan be recognized - perhaps one or 2 #'s up. Actually, since bending strips in this direction is so much tougher, thediameter could probably be thinner than in normal rods. So, the weightdifference may not be that great. Richard from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Dec 30 13:24:10 2000 eBUJO9a07438 Subject: Re: rod refinishing Joy, Harry's advise is good and I would suggest you follow it. Do not let thecane stay wet with soapy water too long. But just as important is properly name? Can you describe the rod? -Doug At 11:38 AM 12/30/00 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Joy,Use some mild soap and warm water to clean it up. If it needs morecleaningthan that, then you'll need to tell us more about the rod. A smallpercentageof old rods are very valuable, and should not be tampered with bywell-meaningyet inexperienced owners.Very mild dry heat, like from two or three seconds over a hair dryer,can beused to straighten the cane. Check out either Stuart Kirkfield's or MichaelSinclair's book through your local library for further information. Ortell uswhere you are, and we can probably recommend a maker or restorer closeby. Harry Boyd Joy Everhart wrote: a friend has and old cane rod from his father. he just wants topreserve itand clean it up. what's the best thing to use to clean it and alsopreserve it. the tip section has a slight bend. can this be straightened from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Sat Dec 30 14:07:00 2000 eBUK6xa08359 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:06:57 -0800 HTTP; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 20:06:56 GMT Subject: Re: Invisible wraps FILETIME=[0FB022C0:01C0729C] Hi Bill:I've had the same problem as you when doing clear wraps on a rod. I too was using polyurethane at the time. Since then I've switched over to Spar Varnish for the wrap work and the results are excellent. Another thing I'd do is to first try any new varnish on a test (wraps) strip before actually varnishing an entire rod section. You just may save yourself a lot of headaches.Jim From: "Bill Taylor" Subject: Invisible wrapsDate: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:07:24 -0200 I have just finished sealing wraps on a rod I recently made. I used Gudebrod 00 White silk and polyurethane to seal. The wraps are for the most part clear, but there are portions of the wraps that are mottledwhere it seems the color white was preserved. Does anyone have any hints for a better method? Thanks, Bill _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Dec 30 15:01:56 2000 eBUL1ua09199 Rodmakers Listserv Subject: Re: Lamination Methods Claude,Thank you. I pretested it but obviously not after downloading to theserver. Obviously I was rushing before I lost my soul. : ) It's fixed now.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Claude Freaner wrote: At 12:40 PM -0500 on 12/30/00, reed curry wrote about LaminationMethods All,While Chris, Joe, and Tom were scouring the countryside for Masonjars small enough to contain my soul, I was busily scanning in thevarious bizarre strip building methods recorded by Geo. L. Herter. Lookunder Extracts on my website....and Chris, why not something in stained-glass, then I can addsome color to the room. Reed: a couple of your links are incorrect. On the 2nd one, thelinks is to ...herters2.jpg but the file is actually named...Herters2.jpg On the third one, the link is to ...Herters3.jpgbut the file is named ...herters3.jpg (not a complaint - just sent for information) Thanks for taking thetime to scan these for us. Claude -- from tjwilhelm@carolina.rr.com Sat Dec 30 15:44:29 2000 eBULiSa09627 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:42:58 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes I too have enjoyed Power Fibers and for a soon to be beginner it has beenparticularly timely. This issue has two articles that address issues I needto solve before going further - Reel Seats and Varnishing I liked Bob Nunley's discussion of making reel seats. I've made a coupleprototypes and the article is going to help me since it mentioned somedimensions to work with. The other thing though is the making of the capusing tube and soldering a disk into the end. I've got some 18% NS tubingand 12% NS round bar stock that I was going to use but have hesitatedbecause of the different content. The raw materials have two differentcolors, the 12% rod being a little darker. My question is: when polished isthis noticeable or does it matter? Most of what I've seen available hasbeen 12% bar and 18% tube. Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishing problems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of a problem ifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standard dip tubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc. It seemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not in use,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube, varnish isstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean up problem everytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiple coats ofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcock itwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with when you usea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Dec 30 18:43:33 2000 eBV0hWa11143 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:43:32 -0600 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim, I guess I should of mentioned the number of rods that have been varnished inthetube. I just started doing the multiple sections on the last three rods. Beforethat I was doing one section at a time, that would be some extra coats in thetube. The tube that you see in the shots had 18 rods varnished in it. Thatmeansit was filled and emptied at least 50 times, as each rod had been run throughthe tube at least two times. Some rods were run through three times. Youcan seethat it is still plenty clear. I would say that 2.50 worth of tube is doing apretty good job. I never expected it to stay clear for more than a few coats.Istill have the other half of the 5.00 tube that has not been used. This makesitvery economical. To address the clogging. I only had it clog up the first time Iused it. I poured some thinner in the tube and left the valve closed with thethinner in the tube. It was about six weeks before I used the tube again andthevalve was clogged with dried varnish. It only took the end of a artist brushhandle to clear it. What I started doing after that is let the thinner runthrough the valve and leave it open, no more clogs. The amount of thinner Iuseto flush the valve is just a few ounces.I also cap the tube with a plastic cap when not in use.Another thing I did not mention, I strain the varnish through a piece nylonhosiery that I slip over the top before I insert the funnel to fill the tube.The hosiery was mentioned on the list a while back but I have been using itforquite a while to strain a number of liquids.This tube works better than I expected, the down side is, filling storing andfilling again. Handling the varnish so many times can get messy if you are notcareful. It takes 1 1/2 QT. to fill the tube for a 4 ft section, that meanspouring in one quart and then another 1/2 QT. When draining, an eye has tobekept on the can you are draining into so that you don't run it over. After youdrain the first quart you have to change cans. My intention was to use agalloncan but that would set the tube assembly too high. I did try it with a coupleofother containers but I finally ended up with draining it back in to the originalcans. After the first couple of rods you get it down pat.Hope this clears things up, the coatings in the tube and the clogging are not aproblem at all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishing problems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of a problem ifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standard diptubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc. Itseemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not in use,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube, varnish isstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean up problem everytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiple coats ofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcock itwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with when you usea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm from tjwilhelm@carolina.rr.com Sat Dec 30 19:06:49 2000 eBV16ma11498 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 20:01:16 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tony, Thanks that clears it up pretty well. Now how about a modification? Let's make the thing not only a drip tube buta drying cabinet too. Build a big enough box and put the tube in thecenter. Shelf on bottom with enough room for the quart can and a couple oflight bulbs to fit underneath. Drain the tube, pull the sections and hangthem on either side of the tube. Put a lid on top and close the front doorto it and let the varnish cure. You think you could kill a couple of birdswith one stone doing that? Certainly would help to save space. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim, I guess I should of mentioned the number of rods that have been varnishedin thetube. I just started doing the multiple sections on the last three rods.Beforethat I was doing one section at a time, that would be some extra coats inthetube. The tube that you see in the shots had 18 rods varnished in it. Thatmeansit was filled and emptied at least 50 times, as each rod had been runthroughthe tube at least two times. Some rods were run through three times. Youcan seethat it is still plenty clear. I would say that 2.50 worth of tube isdoing apretty good job. I never expected it to stay clear for more than a fewcoats. Istill have the other half of the 5.00 tube that has not been used. Thismakes itvery economical. To address the clogging. I only had it clog up the firsttime Iused it. I poured some thinner in the tube and left the valve closed withthethinner in the tube. It was about six weeks before I used the tube againand thevalve was clogged with dried varnish. It only took the end of a artistbrushhandle to clear it. What I started doing after that is let the thinner runthrough the valve and leave it open, no more clogs. The amount of thinnerI useto flush the valve is just a few ounces.I also cap the tube with a plastic cap when not in use.Another thing I did not mention, I strain the varnish through a piecenylonhosiery that I slip over the top before I insert the funnel to fill thetube.The hosiery was mentioned on the list a while back but I have been usingit forquite a while to strain a number of liquids.This tube works better than I expected, the down side is, filling storingandfilling again. Handling the varnish so many times can get messy if you arenotcareful. It takes 1 1/2 QT. to fill the tube for a 4 ft section, thatmeanspouring in one quart and then another 1/2 QT. When draining, an eye has tobekept on the can you are draining into so that you don't run it over. Afteryoudrain the first quart you have to change cans. My intention was to use agalloncan but that would set the tube assembly too high. I did try it with acouple ofother containers but I finally ended up with draining it back in to theoriginalcans. After the first couple of rods you get it down pat.Hope this clears things up, the coatings in the tube and the clogging arenot aproblem at all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishingproblems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of a problemifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standard diptubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc. Itseemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not inuse,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube, varnishisstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean up problemeverytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiple coats ofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcock itwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with when youusea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm from bamboo@pa.net Sat Dec 30 19:59:38 2000 eBV1xba11970 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 20:59:36 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers from my experience working in a fine fly shop in southcentral Pa. Therearerelatively few $700 fly rods sold made of graphite. I'm not saying theydon't sell just that the majority of flyrods sold are under $350. Just mytwo cents.----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: power fibers Terry, I find it very hard to believe that anyone can make aliving and keep adecent standard of living making fly rods weather he has abeveller or not. With graphite rods pushing the $700-800 price range, I think many buyerswould be prepared to spend the same amount on a good cane rod. OneproblemI see, however, is distribution. There are a handful of fly shops in mycity and only rarely will you find one with cane rods on display. Our bigdowntown Orvis shop doesn't stock bamboo rods (although the Orviscatalogcontinues to include them), nor does the Sage/G. Loomis shop two blocksaway. I suspect there's quite a bit of pressure on retailers to keepbamboorods off the retail shelves. Distributors such as Len Codella can sellrodsbut, when sold through a mail order catalog, bamboo rods remain largelyoutof site for the average fisherman. If these rods were in the shops,prospective buyers could flex them, oggle the finish, etc. and wouldeventually succumb to their allure. Richard from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Dec 30 20:17:54 2000 eBV2Hma12334 "Tony Spezio" Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Good idea Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tony, Thanks that clears it up pretty well. Now how about a modification? Let's make the thing not only a drip tubebuta drying cabinet too. Build a big enough box and put the tube in thecenter. Shelf on bottom with enough room for the quart can and a coupleoflight bulbs to fit underneath. Drain the tube, pull the sections and hangthem on either side of the tube. Put a lid on top and close the frontdoorto it and let the varnish cure. You think you could kill a couple ofbirdswith one stone doing that? Certainly would help to save space. Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:35 PMSubject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim, I guess I should of mentioned the number of rods that have beenvarnishedin thetube. I just started doing the multiple sections on the last three rods.Beforethat I was doing one section at a time, that would be some extra coatsinthetube. The tube that you see in the shots had 18 rods varnished in it.Thatmeansit was filled and emptied at least 50 times, as each rod had been runthroughthe tube at least two times. Some rods were run through three times.Youcan seethat it is still plenty clear. I would say that 2.50 worth of tube isdoing apretty good job. I never expected it to stay clear for more than a fewcoats. Istill have the other half of the 5.00 tube that has not been used. Thismakes itvery economical. To address the clogging. I only had it clog up thefirsttime Iused it. I poured some thinner in the tube and left the valve closedwiththethinner in the tube. It was about six weeks before I used the tube againand thevalve was clogged with dried varnish. It only took the end of a artistbrushhandle to clear it. What I started doing after that is let the thinnerrunthrough the valve and leave it open, no more clogs. The amount ofthinnerI useto flush the valve is just a few ounces.I also cap the tube with a plastic cap when not in use.Another thing I did not mention, I strain the varnish through a piecenylonhosiery that I slip over the top before I insert the funnel to fill thetube.The hosiery was mentioned on the list a while back but I have been usingit forquite a while to strain a number of liquids.This tube works better than I expected, the down side is, fillingstoringandfilling again. Handling the varnish so many times can get messy if youarenotcareful. It takes 1 1/2 QT. to fill the tube for a 4 ft section, thatmeanspouring in one quart and then another 1/2 QT. When draining, an eye hastobekept on the can you are draining into so that you don't run it over.Afteryoudrain the first quart you have to change cans. My intention was to use agalloncan but that would set the tube assembly too high. I did try it with acouple of> > other containers but I finally ended up with draining it back into theoriginalcans. After the first couple of rods you get it down pat.Hope this clears things up, the coatings in the tube and the cloggingarenot aproblem at all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishingproblems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of aproblemifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standard diptubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc. Itseemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not inuse,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube,varnishisstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean up problemeverytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiple coatsofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcockitwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with whenyouusea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Dec 30 20:26:50 2000 eBV2Qma12602 Subject: Rod Identification Help Needed Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One of theNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has worn off. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe from downandx@buffnet.net Sat Dec 30 20:26:53 2000 eBV2Qqa12608 "Tony Spezio" Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes It is a good idea if you dip multiple sections like Tony does. If you do one at a time you will take a lot of time to do a rod. Nothing like waiting checking it! ;>)Bob At 09:16 PM 12/30/2000 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Good idea Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "tjwilhelm" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 8:02 PMSubject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tony, Thanks that clears it up pretty well. Now how about a modification? Let's make the thing not only a drip tubebuta drying cabinet too. Build a big enough box and put the tube in thecenter. Shelf on bottom with enough room for the quart can and acoupleoflight bulbs to fit underneath. Drain the tube, pull the sections and hangthem on either side of the tube. Put a lid on top and close the frontdoorto it and let the varnish cure. You think you could kill a couple ofbirdswith one stone doing that? Certainly would help to save space. Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:35 PMSubject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim, I guess I should of mentioned the number of rods that have beenvarnishedin thetube. I just started doing the multiple sections on the last three rods.Beforethat I was doing one section at a time, that would be some extra coatsinthetube. The tube that you see in the shots had 18 rods varnished in it.Thatmeansit was filled and emptied at least 50 times, as each rod had been runthroughthe tube at least two times. Some rods were run through three times.Youcan seethat it is still plenty clear. I would say that 2.50 worth of tube isdoing apretty good job. I never expected it to stay clear for more than a fewcoats. Istill have the other half of the 5.00 tube that has not been used. Thismakes itvery economical. To address the clogging. I only had it clog up thefirsttime Iused it. I poured some thinner in the tube and left the valve closedwiththethinner in the tube. It was about six weeks before I used the tube againand thevalve was clogged with dried varnish. It only took the end of a artistbrushhandle to clear it. What I started doing after that is let the thinnerrunthrough the valve and leave it open, no more clogs. The amount ofthinnerI useto flush the valve is just a few ounces.I also cap the tube with a plastic cap when not in use.Another thing I did not mention, I strain the varnish through a piecenylonhosiery that I slip over the top before I insert the funnel to fill thetube.The hosiery was mentioned on the list a while back but I have beenusingit forquite a while to strain a number of liquids.This tube works better than I expected, the down side is, fillingstoringandfilling again. Handling the varnish so many times can get messy if youarenotcareful. It takes 1 1/2 QT. to fill the tube for a 4 ft section, thatmeanspouring in one quart and then another 1/2 QT. When draining, an eyehastobekept on the can you are draining into so that you don't run it over.Afteryoudrain the first quart you have to change cans. My intention was to useagalloncan but that would set the tube assembly too high. I did try it with acouple ofother containers but I finally ended up with draining it back in to theoriginalcans. After the first couple of rods you get it down pat.Hope this clears things up, the coatings in the tube and the cloggingarenot aproblem at all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishingproblems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of aproblemifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standarddiptubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc. Itseemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not inuse,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube,varnishisstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean up problemeverytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiple coatsofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcockitwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with whenyouusea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Dec 30 21:15:39 2000 eBV3Fca13578 Subject: Quick Question. I can look it up but I can get a quicker answerhere.This is part of a messageThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com\.I know this aint a flytying matter but still, doesanyone out therehave a conversion table for the AFTM - old lineweight system? What ireally need to know is what an class 9 and 10DT-line would be namedwith the old system. from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Dec 30 21:38:51 2000 eBV3cpa14025 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Bob,Doing multiple sticks not only saves time but you don't have to be in thevarnishsmell environment longer than need be. With all three sections and no guidesyoucan get done in about 10-12 minuets on a 42" section. That includes changingthereceiving cans. Like I said, after you do a few it comes automatically. Withguides, it is another story. It takes about one to one and one half hours to doarod. The most consuming time is the stop while waiting for the film to breakfromthe guides. Sometimes it seems to take forever. A stop at each wrap alsoadds tothe total time. This is another downside to the drain tube. When pulling fromadip tube, a light puff from a straw at the guide breaks the film, this can cutaconsiderable amount off the total time. An upside to the drain tube, you havetotal control of the flow by being able to continually adjust the flow with thedrain valve handle.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: It is a good idea if you dip multiple sections like Tony does. If you doone at a time you will take a lot of time to do a rod. Nothing like waiting checking it! ;>)Bob At 09:16 PM 12/30/2000 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Good idea Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "tjwilhelm" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 8:02 PMSubject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tony, Thanks that clears it up pretty well. Now how about a modification? Let's make the thing not only a driptubebuta drying cabinet too. Build a big enough box and put the tube in thecenter. Shelf on bottom with enough room for the quart can and acoupleoflight bulbs to fit underneath. Drain the tube, pull the sections and hangthem on either side of the tube. Put a lid on top and close the frontdoorto it and let the varnish cure. You think you could kill a couple ofbirdswith one stone doing that? Certainly would help to save space. Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:35 PMSubject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim, I guess I should of mentioned the number of rods that have beenvarnishedin thetube. I just started doing the multiple sections on the last threerods.Beforethat I was doing one section at a time, that would be some extracoatsinthetube. The tube that you see in the shots had 18 rods varnished in it.Thatmeansit was filled and emptied at least 50 times, as each rod had been runthroughthe tube at least two times. Some rods were run through threetimes. Youcan seethat it is still plenty clear. I would say that 2.50 worth of tube isdoing apretty good job. I never expected it to stay clear for more than afewcoats. Istill have the other half of the 5.00 tube that has not been used.Thismakes itvery economical. To address the clogging. I only had it clog up thefirsttime Iused it. I poured some thinner in the tube and left the valve closedwiththethinner in the tube. It was about six weeks before I used the tubeagainand thevalve was clogged with dried varnish. It only took the end of a artistbrushhandle to clear it. What I started doing after that is let the thinnerrunthrough the valve and leave it open, no more clogs. The amount ofthinnerI useto flush the valve is just a few ounces.I also cap the tube with a plastic cap when not in use.Another thing I did not mention, I strain the varnish through a piecenylonhosiery that I slip over the top before I insert the funnel to fill thetube.The hosiery was mentioned on the list a while back but I have beenusingit forquite a while to strain a number of liquids.This tube works better than I expected, the down side is, fillingstoringandfilling again. Handling the varnish so many times can get messy if youarenotcareful. It takes 1 1/2 QT. to fill the tube for a 4 ft section, thatmeanspouring in one quart and then another 1/2 QT. When draining, an eyehastobekept on the can you are draining into so that you don't run it over.Afteryoudrain the first quart you have to change cans. My intention was touse agalloncan but that would set the tube assembly too high. I did try it with acouple ofother containers but I finally ended up with draining it back in to theoriginalcans. After the first couple of rods you get it down pat.Hope this clears things up, the coatings in the tube and the cloggingarenot aproblem at all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishingproblems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of aproblemifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standarddiptubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc. Itseemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not inuse,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube,varnishisstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean upproblemeverytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiplecoatsofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcockitwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with whenyouusea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Dec 30 21:42:24 2000 eBV3gNa14060 Subject: Re: Rod Identification Help Needed Joe,A. F. = Abercrombie & Fitch? I know they had rods made for them bysomebig makers, maybe Leonard...can't help more than that, but maybe it's astart.Good luck,Art At 09:25 PM 12/30/2000 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One of theNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has worn off. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Dec 30 21:45:27 2000 eBV3jQa14140 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim:That's pretty much the way it has been for me.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip TubesMaybe it would be okay to put multiple coats ofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcock itwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with when youusea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm from anglport@con2.com Sat Dec 30 21:47:00 2000 eBV3kwa14293 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Quick Question. Tony,The page I stuck in McClane's Encyclopedia (which I apparently tore froman On The Fly catalog) says the 9 DT was a GAG and the 10 was a GAAG. Icangive you the letters for the WF and Shooting tapers and the grain wts too,if you find you need them.Happy New Year!Art At 09:08 PM 12/30/2000 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote:I can look it up but I can get a quicker answerhere.This is part of a messageThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.I know this aint a flytying matter but still, doesanyone out therehave a conversion table for the AFTM - old lineweight system? What ireally need to know is what an class 9 and 10DT-line would be namedwith the old system. from downandx@buffnet.net Sat Dec 30 21:51:24 2000 eBV3pNa14390 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Quick Question. Here's some stuff I kept about silk lines from the list. The first two were posted by R.A. Fick . I added some line designations*. "This is taken from Ray Bergman's Trout, There is a fair amount ofinformation on silk and nylon lines available here. These are level lines, BobI-----------------.022 + - 1 1/2 thou.H----------------.025 + - 1 1/2 thou. 2*G----------------.030 + - 1 1/2 thou. 3*F----------------.035 + - 2 1/2 thou 4*E----------------.040 " " 5*D----------------.045 " " 6*C----------------.050 " " 7*B----------------.055 " "A----------------.060 " " rod nylon silk8'-4oz HDH or HEH HEH DT5*8.5'41/2oz HDH HEH8.5'5oz HCH HDH DT6*9'5-5.5OZ HCH HDH9'6oz GBG HCH DT7* At 09:08 PM 12/30/2000 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote:I can look it up but I can get a quicker answerhere.This is part of a messageThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.I know this aint a flytying matter but still, doesanyone out therehave a conversion table for the AFTM - old lineweight system? What ireally need to know is what an class 9 and 10DT-line would be namedwith the old system. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Dec 30 22:01:20 2000 eBV41Ja14724 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:01:23 -0600 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes That would be great if I had room to store the unit when I am done. I did tryleaving the sticks in the tube one time. It seemed like it took forever for thevarnish to set up. I guess it just trapped the fumes. I was planning on havingthree tubes. When I emptied one I would just leave it in place while drainingthe others. After the first attempt to dry the stick in the tube I abandonedthe have a tying room that I do my varnishing in. Once I varnish, I close the doorand don't open it till the next day. VARNISHING IN A TYING ROOM!!!!!Like I said, I have been lucky.Tony tjwilhelm wrote: Tony, Thanks that clears it up pretty well. Now how about a modification? Let's make the thing not only a drip tubebuta drying cabinet too. Build a big enough box and put the tube in thecenter. Shelf on bottom with enough room for the quart can and a coupleoflight bulbs to fit underneath. Drain the tube, pull the sections and hangthem on either side of the tube. Put a lid on top and close the front doorto it and let the varnish cure. You think you could kill a couple of birdswith one stone doing that? Certainly would help to save space. Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:35 PMSubject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim, I guess I should of mentioned the number of rods that have beenvarnishedin thetube. I just started doing the multiple sections on the last three rods.Beforethat I was doing one section at a time, that would be some extra coats inthetube. The tube that you see in the shots had 18 rods varnished in it.Thatmeansit was filled and emptied at least 50 times, as each rod had been runthroughthe tube at least two times. Some rods were run through three times.Youcan seethat it is still plenty clear. I would say that 2.50 worth of tube isdoing apretty good job. I never expected it to stay clear for more than a fewcoats. Istill have the other half of the 5.00 tube that has not been used. Thismakes itvery economical. To address the clogging. I only had it clog up the firsttime Iused it. I poured some thinner in the tube and left the valve closed withthethinner in the tube. It was about six weeks before I used the tube againand thevalve was clogged with dried varnish. It only took the end of a artistbrushhandle to clear it. What I started doing after that is let the thinner runthrough the valve and leave it open, no more clogs. The amount ofthinnerI useto flush the valve is just a few ounces.I also cap the tube with a plastic cap when not in use.Another thing I did not mention, I strain the varnish through a piecenylonhosiery that I slip over the top before I insert the funnel to fill thetube.The hosiery was mentioned on the list a while back but I have been usingit forquite a while to strain a number of liquids.This tube works better than I expected, the down side is, filling storingandfilling again. Handling the varnish so many times can get messy if you arenotcareful. It takes 1 1/2 QT. to fill the tube for a 4 ft section, thatmeanspouring in one quart and then another 1/2 QT. When draining, an eye hastobekept on the can you are draining into so that you don't run it over. Afteryoudrain the first quart you have to change cans. My intention was to use agalloncan but that would set the tube assembly too high. I did try it with acouple ofother containers but I finally ended up with draining it back in to theoriginalcans. After the first couple of rods you get it down pat.Hope this clears things up, the coatings in the tube and the clogging arenot aproblem at all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishingproblems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of a problemifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standard diptubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc. Itseemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not inuse,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube, varnishisstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean up problemeverytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiple coats ofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcock itwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with when youusea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Dec 30 22:05:10 2000 eBV459a14901 Subject: Re: Quick Question. Art and Larry,Thanks for you quick replies.I have sent the GAG off to a potential list member.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Art Port wrote: Tony,The page I stuck in McClane's Encyclopedia (which I apparently torefroman On The Fly catalog) says the 9 DT was a GAG and the 10 was a GAAG. Icangive you the letters for the WF and Shooting tapers and the grain wtstoo,if you find you need them.Happy New Year!Art At 09:08 PM 12/30/2000 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote:I can look it up but I can get a quicker answerhere.This is part of a messageThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.I know this aint a flytying matter but still, doesanyone out therehave a conversion table for the AFTM - old lineweight system? What ireally need to know is what an class 9 and 10DT-line would be namedwith the old system. from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 30 22:08:34 2000 eBV48Xa15092 Subject: Re: Bench height I was diagnosed with CTS eleven years ago (too much 5-string Banjo and signlettering), did everything known to modern medicine, including surgery, withonly marginal relief. This has not changed to this day. I am very acutelyaware of situations which exacerbate the CTS, and I have yet to have theleast problem from planing cane. The form height, with plane atop it, isapprox. 3" below my elbow. Somewhere I read that this is the suggestedheight for optimal ergonomic working conditions. I don't know that to betrue, but it seems to work for me. Also, I don't employ a death grip on theplane. M-D ----- Original Message ----- ; "RODMAKERS" Subject: Bench height I had carpal tunnel problems myself when I was in my late teens. I thinkitwas from a combination of rock climbing and cycling a couple hundred miles aweek.There are no shock absorbers on road bikes and gloves only help so far.Allthetraining and climbing makes your hands very strong but it also causescarpaltunnel problems.Anyhow because I have had this problem and don't want it again I look intoproper posture while working with hand tools.Personaly, I think people make work benches too high. The best height forhandplaning is to have the bench top some where between the height with yourarmshanging loosely with your thumbs sticking out.Thumbs height is the maximum height of the work surface down to aboutwhereyour finger tips reach.This means you have to bend your back to plane so the stroke is more orlessdone with your back, shoulder and elbow, the elbow is kept low. Too highandyou have to use too much elbow which is cocked too high for comfort. Italsomakes you use your hand in an awkward manner. Bench height is a personal thing and while you can get used to anincorrectheight it may cause excessive fatigue or damage in the long run. Tony Chris sez..... As far as carpal tunnel - a lot of what I see as problems isa matter of using poor mechanics and form by rodmakers when theyplane that puts stress on the arm. Then there is always the goodgenes bad genes theory. Chris /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from tjwilhelm@carolina.rr.com Sat Dec 30 22:17:20 2000 eBV4HJa15440 Sat, 30 Dec 2000 23:15:44 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes A tying room? Well I have a 2 1/2 car garage. It holds my 72 cutlass convertable, my shopand whatever my wife wants to put out there. I gave her the house hoping Icould keep the garage for myself but now I realize I should have changed thelocks out there when we moved in last year. As for my tying room, it has asewing machine in it and is off limits to me. If the Drip Tube/Drying Cabinet is the arrangement I end up building I'llkeep you posted on it. Tim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes That would be great if I had room to store the unit when I am done. I didtryleaving the sticks in the tube one time. It seemed like it took forever varnish to set up. I guess it just trapped the fumes. I was planning onhavingthree tubes. When I emptied one I would just leave it in place whiledrainingthe others. After the first attempt to dry the stick in the tube Iabandoned the sticks. Ihave a tying room that I do my varnishing in. Once I varnish, I close thedoorand don't open it till the next day. VARNISHING IN A TYING ROOM!!!!!Like I said, I have been lucky.Tony tjwilhelm wrote: Tony, Thanks that clears it up pretty well. Now how about a modification? Let's make the thing not only a drip tubebuta drying cabinet too. Build a big enough box and put the tube in thecenter. Shelf on bottom with enough room for the quart can and acoupleoflight bulbs to fit underneath. Drain the tube, pull the sections andhangthem on either side of the tube. Put a lid on top and close the frontdoorto it and let the varnish cure. You think you could kill a couple ofbirdswith one stone doing that? Certainly would help to save space. Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:35 PMSubject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes Tim, I guess I should of mentioned the number of rods that have beenvarnishedin thetube. I just started doing the multiple sections on the last threerods.Beforethat I was doing one section at a time, that would be some extra coatsinthetube. The tube that you see in the shots had 18 rods varnished in it.Thatmeansit was filled and emptied at least 50 times, as each rod had been runthroughthe tube at least two times. Some rods were run through three times.Youcan seethat it is still plenty clear. I would say that 2.50 worth of tube isdoing apretty good job. I never expected it to stay clear for more than a fewcoats. Istill have the other half of the 5.00 tube that has not been used.Thismakes itvery economical. To address the clogging. I only had it clog up thefirsttime Iused it. I poured some thinner in the tube and left the valve closedwiththethinner in the tube. It was about six weeks before I used the tubeagainand thevalve was clogged with dried varnish. It only took the end of a artistbrushhandle to clear it. What I started doing after that is let the thinnerrunthrough the valve and leave it open, no more clogs. The amount ofthinnerI useto flush the valve is just a few ounces.I also cap the tube with a plastic cap when not in use.Another thing I did not mention, I strain the varnish through a piecenylonhosiery that I slip over the top before I insert the funnel to fillthetube.The hosiery was mentioned on the list a while back but I have beenusingit forquite a while to strain a number of liquids.This tube works better than I expected, the down side is, fillingstoringandfilling again. Handling the varnish so many times can get messy if youarenotcareful. It takes 1 1/2 QT. to fill the tube for a 4 ft section, thatmeanspouring in one quart and then another 1/2 QT. When draining, an eyehas tobekept on the can you are draining into so that you don't run it over.Afteryoudrain the first quart you have to change cans. My intention was to useagalloncan but that would set the tube assembly too high. I did try it with acouple ofother containers but I finally ended up with draining it back in totheoriginalcans. After the first couple of rods you get it down pat.Hope this clears things up, the coatings in the tube and the cloggingarenot aproblem at all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio's article on drip tubes might solve some varnishingproblems.My shop is in the garage and ceiling height isn't too much of aproblemifmy rod sections are never more than 4 foot in length. So standarddiptubeprocedures could be used in my shop except for buying motors etc.Itseemstypically that most of you leave the varnish in the tube when not inuse,topping it off with bloxygen or something. With the drip tube,varnishisstored in the can and it would seem that you have a clean up problemeverytime you use the tube. Maybe it would be okay to put multiple coatsofvarnish on the inside of the tube but if you don't clean the petcockitwould clog up. Is that pretty much what you have to live with whenyouusea drip tube or are there some tricks you can employ? ThanksTim Wilhelm from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 30 22:31:54 2000 eBV4Vra15923 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Silk fly line chart www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm Check out www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm There were a few other systemsuntil it settled down with the AFTMA but I think you'll find this charthelpful. This was posted by someone else on the list here and I added it tomy site several months ago. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Quick Question. I can look it up but I can get a quicker answerhere.This is part of a messageThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com\.I know this aint a flytying matter but still, doesanyone out therehave a conversion table for the AFTM - old lineweight system? What ireally need to know is what an class 9 and 10DT-line would be namedwith the old system. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 30 22:31:55 2000 eBV4Vsa15925 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Recommended fly line? At the '99 Boiling Springs Gathering, Gary ??? spoke about the lines herecommends when fishing cane and he recommended some relativelyinexpensiveline by Sci-Angler or Cortland... My memory is failing (like my high schooleng. lit. class) and I cannot recall what he recommended. Gary, are you outthere and can you give me your recommendations again? Darrell from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 30 22:31:56 2000 eBV4Vsa15931 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Rod Identification Help Needed tjwilhelm It's really hard to id your rod with such sketchy info. Do you have theEXACT day on the patent date? I looked in my US Fsihing Rod Patents bookandthere is no April, 1937 rod patent listed. If you could send me a JPG, maybe I can help you id it... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Identification Help Needed Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One of theNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has worn off. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe from anglport@con2.com Sat Dec 30 23:15:19 2000 eBV5FIa17016 Subject: Re: Recommended fly line? Darrell,I think it was the Scientific Angler AirCel II. Made my whole morning!Art At 08:15 PM 12/30/2000 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote:At the '99 Boiling Springs Gathering, Gary ??? spoke about the lines herecommends when fishing cane and he recommended some relativelyinexpensiveline by Sci-Angler or Cortland... My memory is failing (like my high schooleng. lit. class) and I cannot recall what he recommended. Gary, are you outthere and can you give me your recommendations again? Darrell from bh887@lafn.org Sat Dec 30 23:28:13 2000 eBV5SCa17363 "tjwilhelm" Subject: Re: Rod Identification Help Needed Joe, They used rods made by Payne mostly, but also by Cross Rod Co., Hawes RodCo., and Phillipson Rod Co. If that is any help, and the rod is Actually anA&F. I believe they were marked "A&F", not merely AF. Now that you aremore confused than you were, I'll get out of here and go back to lurking. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod Identification Help Needed Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One oftheNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has wornoff. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe from ingvar.cane@swipnet.se Sun Dec 31 02:51:16 2000 eBV8pEa19276 +0100 Subject: E.C. Powell This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0730E.EC780980 Hi all, I am very interested in E.C.Powell rods and also his building technique. =I make hollow rods here in Sweden and I am of cuorse very interested in =any E.C.Taper. If anyone can help me out I will be very thanksfull. I =saw in the archive that anyone had a 8'6" E.C. and was willing to share =the taper I am of course also interested in Walton Powells tapers but =mainly the E.C.s Best wishes Ingvar Nilsson ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0730E.EC780980 Hi all, I am very interested in E.C.Powell rods= his building technique. I make hollow rods here in Sweden and I am of = very interested in any E.C.Taper. If anyone can help me out I will be = thanksfull. I saw in the archive that anyone had a 8'6" E.C. and was = share the taper I am of course also interested in Walton Powells tapers = mainly the E.C.s Best wishes Ingvar =Nilsson ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0730E.EC780980-- from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Dec 31 07:00:18 2000 eBVD0Ha20757 Subject: Re: power fibers - Reel Seats/Drip Tubes In a message dated 12/30/2000 10:18:24 PM Central Standard Time, tjwilhelm@carolina.rr.com writes: HAHAHAHA! This reminds me of the time my Buddy Bob and I helped ourmutual friend Don build a "model airplane workshop" in his back yard. We all fly R/C airplanes (yes another insane hobby!) Don't basement shop was too small and crowded so he purchased a kit for a small "barn" and we built it.We SLAVED over it. We even hauled concrete for the floor the 100 + ft from his curb to the back yard in buckets and trash cans by hand becausethe cement truck wouldn't back over his yard and there was a fence in the way.THAT my friends was only a small part of it. After a week or two of work (mostly by Don I will admit) and a couple of thousand dollars, Don declaired it finished and Went inside to get the first of many trips worth of flying stuff,radios, tools and the like. When he got out to the barn, Stephanie was standing there looking thoughtful, "you know, this would make an ideal place Don is still in his small basement workshop. mark The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. ~ A.Einstein from gdabrowski@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 08:06:49 2000 eBVE6ma21271 2000 06:06:47 PST Subject: fly lines for cane rods Hello Darrell; If your cane rod has an action akin to a classicrod such as a Payne, Leonard or Dickerson youwill find that the SA Aircel will work quitewell. This line is quite limp AND has a smalldiameter both characteristics of line typical ofthe era. Rods built with modern graphite-likeactions will likely prefer the modern line. Take the time to measure samples of the variouslines at similar intervals. the results will beinteresting. Modern lines are designed to becast with a graphite rod and for this reason thebamboo fly rod will almost always perform poorlywhen throwing one. The modern line has a largediameter compared to the lines of the Aircellera. This is due in part to the manufacturersdesire for absolute "float-ability" (moremicroballoons per unit of length) and to the verythick coating applied in order to stiffen theline and permit mile long casts with the graphiterod. Keep in mind that lines can be tuned to your rod the front taper up to and into the taper itself. This takes some time and care as one could easilygo too far. The results however are amazing. Like anything else, an understanding of thesystem you are altering including leader designis necessary for success. Bear in mind the subjectivity of opinionsrelating to the utility of certain lines for useon the bamboo fly rod. In many cases they willlikely be formed in part by the reading of fartoo many fishing magazines, a shallow experiencebase and by interests whose only concern is tosell a line. In short, collect information from differentsources, consider your collected database andmake your own decision. Cordially; Gary Dabrowskihttp://brooksiderod.tripod.com --- Art Port wrote:Darrell,I think it was the Scientific Angler AirCelII. Made my whole morning!Art __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Dec 31 08:24:36 2000 eBVEOZa21930 Subject: soul man 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I do some scroll saw work and if you would like to give me the dimensions of the mason jar for Reed's soul I could make a nice little base and/or box for it. I could do some scenes of fishing on the sides, maybe a place for a candle or something. I figure a nice tasteful plywood should do it. or would you like something a little nicer? Would you like it to be free standing, or just hang it on a wall somewhere? Would this be a large jar, or just one of the shorties? there are a lot of questions here. Some day I hope to meet some of you. Maybe even do some fishing. Mark The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. ~ A.Einstein from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 08:28:16 2000 eBVESBa22224 Subject: Re: Garrison video How can it be a new video unless Charmichael is using "bloopers" and "outtakes" from the original? Shawn Pineo wrote: I was wondering if anyone had seen the New(??) Garrison video byHoagy Carmichael that was advertised in the Planing form recently. Is itany good??I have become a cautious consumer when buying stuff from the U.S.Having been burnt on numerous occasions, I am hesitant to lay out $50+Canadian on a video unless I know it's worth it and I will actuallyreceive it.This is nothing bad against U.S products (it is where I must get 90%of my rod stuff and I am very happy with most of it) , it is simply aquestion about a product and the state of the Canadian vs. Americandollar. Any help would be greatly appreciated , Shawn from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 08:35:07 2000 eBVEZ6a22482 2000 06:35:09 PST Subject: Re: Garrison video terry, i was a video that was available before in somelimited form and has been rereleased. i saw it. it wasintresting but not a "how to" tape for beginningbuilders or some sort of companion for the book. timothy --- "T. Ackland" wrote:How can it be a new video unless Charmichael isusing "bloopers" and "outtakes" from the original? Shawn Pineo wrote: I was wondering if anyone had seen the New(??)Garrison video byHoagy Carmichael that was advertised in thePlaning form recently. Is itany good??I have become a cautious consumer when buyingstuff from the U.S.Having been burnt on numerous occasions, I amhesitant to lay out $50+Canadian on a video unless I know it's worth itand I will actuallyreceive it.This is nothing bad against U.S products (itis where I must get 90%of my rod stuff and I am very happy with most ofit) , it is simply aquestion about a product and the state of theCanadian vs. Americandollar. Any help would be greatly appreciated , Shawn ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Dec 31 08:44:08 2000 eBVEi7a22731 "tjwilhelm" Subject: Re: Rod Identification Help Needed Joe, I have an A&F Favorite 7'6" 3pc which probably dates from the early 1940s.It has the clear fingerprints of the Edwards on it. These rods are fairlydistinctive in that: 1. They have A&F Favorite written in gold script from butt to tip.2. They have a "signature wrap" on the butt side of the writing3. They Generally have a screw down locking "skeleton" type reel seat witheither a platic or wood insert. The metal is usually aluminum.4. The cane is lightly flamed. I hope this helps. I could send you a picture of list. BTW: Edwards also made salmon rods for L.L. Bean. -Doug At 09:25 PM 12/30/00 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One of theNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has worn off. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Dec 31 09:02:47 2000 eBVF2la23124 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: fly lines for cane rods I have had good luck with the Wulff Triangle Taper lines. My favorite rod,a Granger Aristocrat 8'6", loves a TT 4-5. The action is "semi parabolic".As the line fished gets longer the rod begins to work more and more intothe lower part of the mid. The long front tapeer of the line seems to workwell with this sort of "progressivity". At the last Grand Gathering a guywho fishes a lot in saltwater easily threw the whole line and about 10' ofbacking. Interestingly the 4 & 5 also works niceley on my Heddon Folsum 9' 2F whichis a much faster rod. Go figure. Gary's point is well taken. What works,works. -Doug At 06:06 AM 12/31/00 -0800, Gary Dabrowski wrote:Hello Darrell; If your cane rod has an action akin to a classicrod such as a Payne, Leonard or Dickerson youwill find that the SA Aircel will work quitewell. This line is quite limp AND has a smalldiameter both characteristics of line typical ofthe era. Rods built with modern graphite-likeactions will likely prefer the modern line. Take the time to measure samples of the variouslines at similar intervals. the results will beinteresting. Modern lines are designed to becast with a graphite rod and for this reason thebamboo fly rod will almost always perform poorlywhen throwing one. The modern line has a largediameter compared to the lines of the Aircellera. This is due in part to the manufacturersdesire for absolute "float-ability" (moremicroballoons per unit of length) and to the verythick coating applied in order to stiffen theline and permit mile long casts with the graphiterod. Keep in mind that lines can be tuned to your rod the front taper up to and into the taper itself. This takes some time and care as one could easilygo too far. The results however are amazing. Like anything else, an understanding of thesystem you are altering including leader designis necessary for success. Bear in mind the subjectivity of opinionsrelating to the utility of certain lines for useon the bamboo fly rod. In many cases they willlikely be formed in part by the reading of fartoo many fishing magazines, a shallow experiencebase and by interests whose only concern is tosell a line. In short, collect information from differentsources, consider your collected database andmake your own decision. Cordially; Gary Dabrowskihttp://brooksiderod.tripod.com --- Art Port wrote:Darrell,I think it was the Scientific Angler AirCelII. Made my whole morning!Art __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Dec 31 09:08:54 2000 eBVF8ra23351 0000 0000 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Rod Identification Help Needed marty wrote: What you have is a rod sold by Ambercrombie & Fitch and made I believe Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One of theNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has wornoff. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sun Dec 31 09:14:45 2000 eBVFEia23582 ;Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:14:41 +0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: fly lines for cane rods You haven't lived until you've fished with a silk line. They ain'tcheap at the outset and they're a bit of a PITA, but I think they'reworth the extra maintenance. Dennis Douglas P. Easton wrote: I have had good luck with the Wulff Triangle Taper lines. My favorite rod,a Granger Aristocrat 8'6", loves a TT 4-5. The action is "semi parabolic".As the line fished gets longer the rod begins to work more and more intothe lower part of the mid. The long front tapeer of the line seems to workwell with this sort of "progressivity". At the last Grand Gathering a guywho fishes a lot in saltwater easily threw the whole line and about 10' ofbacking. Interestingly the 4 & 5 also works niceley on my Heddon Folsum 9' 2F whichis a much faster rod. Go figure. Gary's point is well taken. What works,works. -Doug At 06:06 AM 12/31/00 -0800, Gary Dabrowski wrote:Hello Darrell; If your cane rod has an action akin to a classicrod such as a Payne, Leonard or Dickerson youwill find that the SA Aircel will work quitewell. This line is quite limp AND has a smalldiameter both characteristics of line typical ofthe era. Rods built with modern graphite-likeactions will likely prefer the modern line. Take the time to measure samples of the variouslines at similar intervals. the results will beinteresting. Modern lines are designed to becast with a graphite rod and for this reason thebamboo fly rod will almost always perform poorlywhen throwing one. The modern line has a largediameter compared to the lines of the Aircellera. This is due in part to the manufacturersdesire for absolute "float-ability" (moremicroballoons per unit of length) and to the verythick coating applied in order to stiffen theline and permit mile long casts with the graphiterod. Keep in mind that lines can be tuned to your rod the front taper up to and into the taper itself.This takes some time and care as one could easilygo too far. The results however are amazing.Like anything else, an understanding of thesystem you are altering including leader designis necessary for success. Bear in mind the subjectivity of opinionsrelating to the utility of certain lines for useon the bamboo fly rod. In many cases they willlikely be formed in part by the reading of fartoo many fishing magazines, a shallow experiencebase and by interests whose only concern is tosell a line. In short, collect information from differentsources, consider your collected database andmake your own decision. Cordially; Gary Dabrowskihttp://brooksiderod.tripod.com --- Art Port wrote:Darrell,I think it was the Scientific Angler AirCelII. Made my whole morning!Art __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from downandx@buffnet.net Sun Dec 31 09:32:12 2000 eBVFWBa23876 Subject: Re: fly lines for cane rods Thebault lines are pretty cheap, too. If you are willing to buy some dowels and build a drier, they are even less of a pain. For as little as I get out anymore, I think they are well worth the hassle.Best regards,Bob At 11:22 AM 12/31/2000 -0800, you wrote:You haven't lived until you've fished with a silk line. They ain'tcheap at the outset and they're a bit of a PITA, but I think they'reworth the extra maintenance. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from ewp42@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 09:42:58 2000 eBVFgva24175 2000 07:43:00 PST Subject: Re: fly lines for cane rods What is your source for the Thebault lines? Couldn'tfind anything on the web about them. Thanks, Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Dec 31 10:04:14 2000 eBVG4Ca24592 Subject: 2001 Well, we all survived the Y2K computer non event, hopefuly we all caughtsome fish and made a few more rods. Happy New Year, have a happy, safe and preposterous (sic) year Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from dutcher@email.msn.com Sun Dec 31 10:30:06 2000 eBVGU5a25027 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 08:30:02 -0800 Subject: 4, 5, or 6? A Special Thank You This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C07303.83B44720 Hello Rodmakers,I would like to extend a very special thank you to; Chris Bogart, BobNunley, Reed Curry, Tim Wilhelm, Eric Peper, and Ray Gould for yourresponses to my recent inquiry. I do appreciate the time it takes to respondto novice questions. I am very impressed with the integrity demonstrated bythe Rodmakers. The information I received has answered some questions and createdaboutthree times as many questions as I started with. More on those later. For myfirst rod I would like to start with a seven strip rod with a three in onefoot twist. Does anybody know where I can obtain a planing form? Just my3-in-1 twisted humor. I have been refinishing some "project rods" to get the feel of workingwith bamboo and polish my skills at wrapping and varnishing. I have fourrods in the works at the moment. When I finish I will live with these for awhile then most likely obtain a premium blank to finish. This way I hope togain a feel for bamboo and decide where I want to go from there. I live in Washington. Are there any gatherings scheduled in my area? Many thanks,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C07303.83B44720 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20001231T162729ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C07303.83B44720-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Dec 31 10:33:30 2000 eBVGXTa25231 Subject: wet fly rod I have had some questions about this rod, and so have posted some photosathttp://members.aol.com/tsmithwickThe photos are marked thomas1.jpg, thomas2.jpg, and thomas 3.jpg. what you are looking at is the beginning of a restoration, with the butt wraps replaced and tacked in place with one coat of varnish. I still have a jillion wraps to go. from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 10:34:51 2000 eBVGYpa25418 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: power fibers Tony,hand planing was never the method used to produce rods for the commercialmarket.Sure you can produce great rods by hand planing, all the guys on the list canprove that. How do we know what sort of market there is out there for canerodswhen we cannot supply them in a commercial quantity (see R. Nantel'sposting).Perhaps there is no market. Perhaps we are all just a bunch of bullshittersjustsitting at our computers dreaming. We honestly do not know just what themarketis, perhaps it could explode if the rods were out there? We will never knowunlesswe can make them commercially.I know I'll never plane another rod, and If I cannot develop an easier way thenI'm finished with it. Perhaps I do not really want to make rods any more, Icertainly get more challenge out of building bevellers than rods and canalwaysfind excuses to rebuild or modify.Terry Tony Young wrote: Arguing the toss on what a pro is and isn't is a complete waste of timeespecially when the lines a between an occupation and serious past timeareblured as are the lines between jobs are nowadays anyhow. I have no ideaasto what my job description is and my hoby interests are anymore for eg.The important issue is the outcome, the most important outcome is thecontinuity of the craft in the face of increasing blandness of pretty mucheverything produced today. The really sad thing is the majority of peoplein an age where pretty much anybody can get pretty much anything andownmore and better stuff than kings and heads of state did from 20 yearsagomeans there really is nothing special about much of anything produced anymore. Now the requirement of this outcome is a base of consumers prepared tobuyanything offered and the way to do that is advertise heavily and convinceeverybody the latest offering is the greatest. There is no need to gothrough this on this list because presumably we all want something betterin fly rods at least.The question of where are all the bamboo rods in this latest golden age ofrod makers is moot. I've got to wonder if bamboo rods ever sold in greatnumbers would make any difference to anybody except for the makers ofcheapproduction rods. People inclined to go with advertising would still dotheir "serious" fishing with graphite and the bamboo rod would go mostlyunused just in case they broke it and deep inside they'd "know" you needgraphite for the really big ones.I'm certain decent rods for a mass market could be made but it would be inIndonesia or China not the US. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.IMHO this whole issue of splitting vs sawing and grain runout is a questionwith no answer everybody would be happy with.Again IMHO this is a follow on from the sawing vs riving of wood and has adifferent application than bamboo rods. When you rive a piece of wood forturning for eg the block riven could be at 45 degrees for eg to theoriginal length of wood and it's setup and turned as the smaller block asopposed to sawing a length of wood straight and using the resulting blockwithout regard to grain direction. This is bad practice as failures dooccur done this way.Bamboo is different, the "grain" doesn't wander until it reaches the nodeswhich are points of confusion for the grain then continues to the next nodein a more or less straigh line. The wandering you see during splitting areIMHO just random paths taking the line of least resistance between nodesand not continuation of any "grain". Incidently, I'd have to see it to believe you could saw good strips fasterthan you can split them using the Bob Nunley (pro maker) method. Thestipsare also as straight as you want them split this way because of the degreeof control you have during the process. Because there is no real grain there can be no dif between hand planed andmilled strips as far as strength goes.Milled strips are more uniform than hand planed strips can be if done inthe same time and that's the only dif.Does it matter in the end? Maybe to the maker, certainly not to the punterbuying the rod. These guys are paying serious money for mass producedplastic, why would most care even if they knew the dif? Tony At 07:05 PM 12/29/00 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:According to my dictionary a professional is one that that makes hisliving inarts, sports etc., in which amateurs engage.The Garrison method of hand planing was never intended for full timeprofessional use. I am sure Garrison kept his day job and look at thefollowinghe had at the timeLook back over the last few years and try to remember just how manyhandplaners have come and gone. Those that are dug in seem to end upprefering tosell equipment rather than concentrate on just rods.There are more guys now making cane rods than there ever was in thegoldenera,yet where are these rods? I think we are all bullshitting each other! Youcaninclude me in with that, Terry petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "onewholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using itpatronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are just spoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally noneis"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given set ofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for some ofusit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, and inthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit,thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because theyhaveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using millingmachinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made from sawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being produced now.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method ofmakingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sun Dec 31 10:41:59 2000 eBVGfwa25697 ;Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:41:55 +0000 Subject: Re: fly lines for cane rods Bob, I agree! I'm saving my pennies for another one. :-) Dennis Bob Maulucci wrote: Thebault lines are pretty cheap, too. If you are willing to buy some dowelsand build a drier, they are even less of a pain. For as little as I get outanymore, I think they are well worth the hassle.Best regards,Bob At 11:22 AM 12/31/2000 -0800, you wrote:You haven't lived until you've fished with a silk line. They ain'tcheap at the outset and they're a bit of a PITA, but I think they'reworth the extra maintenance. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from downandx@buffnet.net Sun Dec 31 11:00:04 2000 eBVH04a26268 Subject: Re: fly lines for cane rods Try Olaf. I will find his e-mail. I had a whole bunch, but I have none at this time. Maybe in the Spring.Bob At 07:43 AM 12/31/2000 -0800, you wrote:What is your source for the Thebault lines? Couldn'tfind anything on the web about them. Thanks, Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from Dennishigham@cs.com Sun Dec 31 11:03:13 2000 eBVH3Da26497 Subject: Re: fly lines for cane rods Try.... oborge@mwt.net. Dennis from downandx@buffnet.net Sun Dec 31 11:05:46 2000 eBVH5ja26720 Subject: Silk line purchases Try Olaf:oborge@mwt.netI don't know if he has Phoenix and Thebault. (Actually, I don't know Olaf either, except that I hear he is a very honest and fair guy. Also, an expert on the lines.)No financial interests here, blah, blah....Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Dec 31 11:10:25 2000 eBVHANa26975 Mon, 1 Jan 2001 01:10:24 +0800 Mon, 1 Jan 2001 01:10:22 +0800 Subject: Re: power fibers petermckean ,"'RODMAKERS'" Terry, Tony,hand planing was never the method used to produce rods for thecommercialmarket.Sure you can produce great rods by hand planing, all the guys on the list canprove that. How do we know what sort of market there is out there forcanerodswhen we cannot supply them in a commercial quantity (see R. Nantel'sposting).Perhaps there is no market. Perhaps we are all just a bunch ofbullshitters justsitting at our computers dreaming. We honestly do not know just what themarketis, perhaps it could explode if the rods were out there? We will neverknow unlesswe can make them commercially. What you say is true and we'll never know unless rods are produced in thenumbers and using the right methods to actually make the blanks at a massmarket price.In the mean time it's the hand planers keeping the craft alive. In fact notonly keeping it alive but a lot of people are doing a good job too. Iwasn't kidding when I wrote I'm amazed nobody in China or Indonesia or someplace hasn't already picked up on it and I do think if a mass market isever provided with bamboo rods it will not come from a developed country.Look at watches. I'm pretty certain the Swiss felt safe not all that longago. Imagine 20 familys all set up with mills. Assuming there were 4 makersin each family they could turn out probably 20 rods worth of strips a day.400 blanks a day. Personaly, I hope bamboo rods never become *that*popular. A few years ago a bloke called Allen Bond started to build a replica of theHMS Endevour (James Cook's ship he discovered Australia, NZ and mapedhugeareas of Canada) Now this truly was a replica with exceptions in a fewthings like it had to have motors and heads for legal reasons and bentframes etc were laminated, not steam bent. There was a fist fight over thatdecesion.Anyhow, because it was as faithful a replica legaly possible there werevery, very few people who could do the work. So a few people taught a lotof people how to do everything from hand sew the sails to forge all thefittings, coopering and place a gazillion rivets plus about a hundred otherthings. When I finished my apprenticeship I left the job that day because Iwasn't interested in glass and metal boats and there seemed no future intimber boats.As a result of the Perth and Fremantle now have a number of very tallentedbuilders, not just timber but steel and glass too. It is only thanks to a few die hards who didn't make much money but didkeep the knowlage alive these boats are still possible to build. I know I'll never plane another rod, and If I cannot develop an easier waythenI'm finished with it. Perhaps I do not really want to make rods any more, Icertainly get more challenge out of building bevellers than rods and canalwaysfind excuses to rebuild or modify.TerryEach to his own. I do like making rods, I just don't have the time to do itas much as I'd like. A mill makes it easier but I do like planing. It'ssatisfying. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Dec 31 11:10:46 2000 eBVHAja27036 Subject: Re: power fibers Terry People don't want massed produced bamboo rods, they want hand planed nicely finished rods they can call their own. Most of my customers are sick of all the marketing bullshit buy the big graphite companies and flyfishing rags. These people are the market, and it is not a big one ... but it is big enough to keep rodmakers doing quality work at reasonable prices busy most of the time. sitting at the computer trying to convince other rod makers is not going to sell rods.Joe from ewp42@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 11:11:13 2000 eBVHBCa27224 2000 09:11:15 PST Subject: Re: Silk line purchases Thanks for the lead. Shall drop him a note. Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Dec 31 11:12:24 2000 eBVHCMa27494 Mon, 1 Jan 2001 01:12:24 +0800 Mon, 1 Jan 2001 01:12:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Silk line purchases Olaf had Phoenix last I heard. Very nice lines that make you go all wobblyin the knees.Olaf is a good bloke to deal with. Tony At 12:03 PM 12/31/00 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote:Try Olaf:oborge@mwt.netI don't know if he has Phoenix and Thebault. (Actually, I don't know Olaf either, except that I hear he is a very honest and fair guy. Also, an expert on the lines.)No financial interests here, blah, blah....Bob Maulucci /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Dec 31 11:34:40 2000 eBVHYda28056 "tjwilhelm" Subject: Rod Identification Help Needed - Pictures Posted on Web Thanks to everyone that has replied to my query. At the suggestion of Darrell Lee I have taken some pictures of the rod andhave posted them on my website at http://www.direct- pest.com/rodmakerlook Darrell, if your listening the engraving on the slip ring says "Patent Dated4- 13-37". Had to get my wife to look at it since I can't see things thatsmall (I'm an old fogie) Thanks again to everyone who has responded from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Dec 31 11:39:35 2000 eBVHdZa28329 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: New California State record trout Mama Mia! http://www.fishinghotpage.com/photow.htm Happy New year everyone! Darrellwww.vfish.net from rp43640@online-club.de Sun Dec 31 11:42:17 2000 eBVHgGa28532 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:42:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: RE: Sv: 6 sided 18 Strip rod The rodbuilding is totally different than described. For his Cane-Star principlelike Ludwig Reimcalls his building method (which by the way was patented in 1987) he usesonly pure power fibres.If you look at the very simple ASCII drawing you might understand that hecuts only the densest fibresand bundles 16 for his octagonal design. II\I/__ --- --- --- ---- ___ ------------------- * I ---- \ I /* I \ I /\I/__ --- --- --- ---- ___ /I\ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 31 11:53:05 2000 eBVHr4a28924 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 31 Dec 2000 11:53:04 -0600 Subject: fishing equip question Does anyone happen to know what this moldable foam strike indicatormaterialreally is... I found something that is close (at about 1/20th the price) butit is not quite as durable... like many flyfishing gimmicks, I'm sure it'sprobably something that can be found in another market much cheaper. Any bn-----Original Message----- Subject: New California State record trout Mama Mia! http://www.fishinghotpage.com/photow.htm Happy New year everyone! Darrellwww.vfish.net from rp43640@online-club.de Sun Dec 31 11:57:00 2000 eBVHuxa29166 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:56:41 +0100 (MET) "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: power fibers Terry,either you want to do business or build rods as a hobby (even rods sold nowand then)If you want to build rods for a bigger market than you have to findproduction methodswhich will give you a high profit. But you also have do to a lot of advertisingwhich I have not seen anyone on the cane scene doing to the same extent asthe big graphite companies. You have to create a need. A Happy New Year to all on the List Christian 31-12-2000 11:41:16, "T. Ackland" wrote: Tony,hand planing was never the method used to produce rods for thecommercial market.Sure you can produce great rods by hand planing, all the guys on the list canprove that. How do we know what sort of market there is out there forcane rodswhen we cannot supply them in a commercial quantity (see R. Nantel'sposting).Perhaps there is no market. Perhaps we are all just a bunch of bullshittersjustsitting at our computers dreaming. We honestly do not know just what themarketis, perhaps it could explode if the rods were out there? We will never knowunlesswe can make them commercially.I know I'll never plane another rod, and If I cannot develop an easier waythenI'm finished with it. Perhaps I do not really want to make rods any more, Icertainly get more challenge out of building bevellers than rods and canalwaysfind excuses to rebuild or modify.Terry Tony Young wrote: Arguing the toss on what a pro is and isn't is a complete waste of timeespecially when the lines a between an occupation and serious past timeareblured as are the lines between jobs are nowadays anyhow. I have no ideaasto what my job description is and my hoby interests are anymore for eg.The important issue is the outcome, the most important outcome is thecontinuity of the craft in the face of increasing blandness of pretty mucheverything produced today. The really sad thing is the majority of peoplein an age where pretty much anybody can get pretty much anything andownmore and better stuff than kings and heads of state did from 20 yearsagomeans there really is nothing special about much of anything producedanymore. Now the requirement of this outcome is a base of consumers prepared tobuyanything offered and the way to do that is advertise heavily and convinceeverybody the latest offering is the greatest. There is no need to gothrough this on this list because presumably we all want something betterin fly rods at least.The question of where are all the bamboo rods in this latest golden age ofrod makers is moot. I've got to wonder if bamboo rods ever sold in greatnumbers would make any difference to anybody except for the makers ofcheapproduction rods. People inclined to go with advertising would still dotheir "serious" fishing with graphite and the bamboo rod would go mostlyunused just in case they broke it and deep inside they'd "know" you needgraphite for the really big ones.I'm certain decent rods for a mass market could be made but it would beinIndonesia or China not the US. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.IMHO this whole issue of splitting vs sawing and grain runout is a questionwith no answer everybody would be happy with.Again IMHO this is a follow on from the sawing vs riving of wood and has adifferent application than bamboo rods. When you rive a piece of wood forturning for eg the block riven could be at 45 degrees for eg to theoriginal length of wood and it's setup and turned as the smaller block asopposed to sawing a length of wood straight and using the resulting blockwithout regard to grain direction. This is bad practice as failures dooccur done this way.Bamboo is different, the "grain" doesn't wander until it reaches the nodeswhich are points of confusion for the grain then continues to the nextnodein a more or less straigh line. The wandering you see during splitting areIMHO just random paths taking the line of least resistance between nodesand not continuation of any "grain". Incidently, I'd have to see it to believe you could saw good strips fasterthan you can split them using the Bob Nunley (pro maker) method. Thestipsare also as straight as you want them split this way because of thedegreeof control you have during the process. Because there is no real grain there can be no dif between hand planedandmilled strips as far as strength goes.Milled strips are more uniform than hand planed strips can be if done inthe same time and that's the only dif.Does it matter in the end? Maybe to the maker, certainly not to thepunterbuying the rod. These guys are paying serious money for mass producedplastic, why would most care even if they knew the dif? Tony At 07:05 PM 12/29/00 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:According to my dictionary a professional is one that that makes hisliving inarts, sports etc., in which amateurs engage.The Garrison method of hand planing was never intended for full timeprofessional use. I am sure Garrison kept his day job and look at thefollowinghe had at the timeLook back over the last few years and try to remember just how manyhandplaners have come and gone. Those that are dug in seem to end upprefering tosell equipment rather than concentrate on just rods.There are more guys now making cane rods than there ever was in thegoldenera,yet where are these rods? I think we are all bullshitting each other! Youcaninclude me in with that, Terry petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "onewholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using itpatronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are justspoutingbloody rubbish!>> >>There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally noneis"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given set ofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for some ofusit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, and inthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit,thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because theyhaveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using millingmachinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made fromsawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being producednow.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method ofmakingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from dutcher@email.msn.com Sun Dec 31 12:04:33 2000 eBVI4Wa29480 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:04:29 -0800 Subject: L R H Day Wet Fly Rod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07310.B46A24E0 I have a 9' Hardy Palakona L R H Day Wet Fly Rod. Serial Number: E54696.There is no line weight on the rod. If any one is familiar with this rod Iwould like to know what weight plastic and silk lines this rod would handle Thanks, Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07310.B46A24E0 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20001231T180154ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07310.B46A24E0-- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Dec 31 12:19:24 2000 eBVIJNa29821 eBVIJN905032; Subject: Re: fishing equip question On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, Bob Nunley wrote: Does anyone happen to know what this moldable foam strike indicatormaterialreally is... I found something that is close (at about 1/20th the price) butit is not quite as durable... like many flyfishing gimmicks, I'm sure it'sprobably something that can be found in another market much cheaper. Any I believe they start with sz 10 Stimulators and hit them with high doseradiation. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://flysupplies.homepage.com from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Dec 31 12:37:51 2000 eBVIbka00257 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:37:46 +0100 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Sv: power fibers eBVIbka00258 Terry Be a pro - stay with it for the money:-)) regards, Carsten----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers Tony,hand planing was never the method used to produce rods for thecommercial market.Sure you can produce great rods by hand planing, all the guys on the listcanprove that. How do we know what sort of market there is out there forcane rodswhen we cannot supply them in a commercial quantity (see R. Nantel'sposting).Perhaps there is no market. Perhaps we are all just a bunch of bullshittersjustsitting at our computers dreaming. We honestly do not know just what themarketis, perhaps it could explode if the rods were out there? We will never knowunlesswe can make them commercially.I know I'll never plane another rod, and If I cannot develop an easier waythenI'm finished with it. Perhaps I do not really want to make rods any more, Icertainly get more challenge out of building bevellers than rods and canalwaysfind excuses to rebuild or modify.Terry Tony Young wrote: Arguing the toss on what a pro is and isn't is a complete waste of timeespecially when the lines a between an occupation and serious past timeareblured as are the lines between jobs are nowadays anyhow. I have no ideaasto what my job description is and my hoby interests are anymore for eg.The important issue is the outcome, the most important outcome is thecontinuity of the craft in the face of increasing blandness of prettymucheverything produced today. The really sad thing is the majority of peoplein an age where pretty much anybody can get pretty much anything andownmore and better stuff than kings and heads of state did from 20 yearsagomeans there really is nothing special about much of anything producedanymore. Now the requirement of this outcome is a base of consumers preparedto buyanything offered and the way to do that is advertise heavily and convinceeverybody the latest offering is the greatest. There is no need to gothrough this on this list because presumably we all want somethingbetterin fly rods at least.The question of where are all the bamboo rods in this latest golden ageofrod makers is moot. I've got to wonder if bamboo rods ever sold in greatnumbers would make any difference to anybody except for the makersof cheapproduction rods. People inclined to go with advertising would still dotheir "serious" fishing with graphite and the bamboo rod would go mostlyunused just in case they broke it and deep inside they'd "know" you needgraphite for the really big ones.I'm certain decent rods for a mass market could be made but it would beinIndonesia or China not the US. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.IMHO this whole issue of splitting vs sawing and grain runout is a questionwith no answer everybody would be happy with.Again IMHO this is a follow on from the sawing vs riving of wood and has adifferent application than bamboo rods. When you rive a piece of woodforturning for eg the block riven could be at 45 degrees for eg to theoriginal length of wood and it's setup and turned as the smaller block asopposed to sawing a length of wood straight and using the resulting blockwithout regard to grain direction. This is bad practice as failures dooccur done this way.Bamboo is different, the "grain" doesn't wander until it reaches thenodeswhich are points of confusion for the grain then continues to the nextnodein a more or less straigh line. The wandering you see during splitting areIMHO just random paths taking the line of least resistance between nodesand not continuation of any "grain". Incidently, I'd have to see it to believe you could saw good strips fasterthan you can split them using the Bob Nunley (pro maker) method. Thestipsare also as straight as you want them split this way because of thedegreeof control you have during the process. Because there is no real grain there can be no dif between hand planedandmilled strips as far as strength goes.Milled strips are more uniform than hand planed strips can be if done inthe same time and that's the only dif.Does it matter in the end? Maybe to the maker, certainly not to thepunterbuying the rod. These guys are paying serious money for mass producedplastic, why would most care even if they knew the dif? Tony At 07:05 PM 12/29/00 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:According to my dictionary a professional is one that that makes hisliving inarts, sports etc., in which amateurs engage.The Garrison method of hand planing was never intended for full timeprofessional use. I am sure Garrison kept his day job and look at thefollowinghe had at the timeLook back over the last few years and try to remember just how manyhandplaners have come and gone. Those that are dug in seem to end upprefering tosell equipment rather than concentrate on just rods.There are more guys now making cane rods than there ever was in thegoldenera,yet where are these rods? I think we are all bullshitting each other! Youcaninclude me in with that, Terry petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is "onewholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusing theword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using itpatronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are justspoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generally noneis"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given setofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for someof usit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time over it,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, andinthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit,thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because theyhaveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using millingmachinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made fromsawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods in collectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being producednow.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened strip stayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method ofmakingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Dec 31 13:00:47 2000 eBVJ0la00700 Subject: production I got this in an e-mail and wanted to add my couple of pfennegs worth Terry,either you want to do business or build rods as a hobby (even rods sold now and then)If you want to build rods for a bigger market than you have to find production methods> Now there are also OTHER considerations to make production and "profits" in any enterprise, rodmaking being one example. I am more familiar with building model airplanes so can give more details for that. BUT! ANY design of ANY object is, by necessity, a compromise between your design wish and your production capability. Profitability will depend on cost to produce vs funds paid for the object. As the guy once said, "I made my millions by finding something I couldd make for $1 and sell for $3, that 2% really adds up!"On the other hand, if you produce it for $3 and sell it for $1 you are not making anything.So you have to make compromises in design and production so that youcan actually keep an income coming in.You also have to compromise in the design to make something that will appeal to the vast majority of people. This is why political candidates are so plane jane, white bread, absolutely boring. The point being that the parties choose someone who is not necessarily the BEST guy, but the onewho is the least objectionable to the majority of voters. this is one reason that "None of the above" never caught on. it would be really embarassing for a candidate to lose to "none of the above"SO if I were to design a nice little rod with 4 pieces, for 4 wt and the medium action that I like and all, how many people would really want it. More over, how many people who wander into a local shop would want tospend the $500-$1000 for such a rod it would cost to make it profitable for ME to produce it. Assuming that it takes 60 hours to produce a rod from start to finish, and at $10 an hour, that is $600 jsut for labor. Now add $100-$200 for "stuff" and nothing else for your insurance or retirement and the like and you see why a hobby is not a good idea for a business.This is of course the idea behind the Model T Ford. It might not be a Duesenberg, but in 1927, Duesenberg was selling a few cars at $6000 to$7000 a piece, ford sold millions at $400. Ford is still in business and Duesenberg went Belly up in the '30sIf you want to make a living at it, you have to make compromises that you may not like, and produce something you might not necessiarily like either. But you will have something that you could possibly find a market for. mark The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. ~ A.Einstein from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Dec 31 13:19:30 2000 eBVJJTa01111 eBVJJTk12064; Subject: Re: Quick Question. On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Tony Spezio wrote: I can look it up but I can get a quicker answerhere.This is part of a messageThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.I know this aint a flytying matter but still, doesanyone out therehave a conversion table for the AFTM - old lineweight system? What ireally need to know is what an class 9 and 10DT-line would be namedwith the old system. Hi Tony, According to an old Cortland 333 conversion chart:DT9F = GBGWF10F = GAAF Although ather charts have DT9F as GAG DT10F is probably GAG by Cortlands chart or GAAG by others. Also FWIW, I have an old Herters sinking wetfly/nymph line still with thepackaging, labeled GBF or WF-9-S. Other charts say the GBF is an 8wt linehowever. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://flysupplies.homepage.com from macsrods@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 13:20:47 2000 eBVJKla01296 2000 11:20:49 PST Subject: ID some rods help needed I am interested in finding out a resource and or themanufactors name 1 Where can I learn more about "Wards Anglers Pride" -I think they are HIs.2 Green label - black lettering says Windsor incursive. 3 Piedras Sp(ecials ? is covered) I've heard of thesebut can't remember4 Ike Walton in white cursive with Tonlin Cane on thereverse.5 white cursive very hard to read- LM Dickinoujpicture at :http:\\members.aol.com\mcbertin1\lmdicker.jpg6 white cursive Bill Ratkin also has broken redoutlined label with gold center =====Rich McGaugheyCEO Macsrods(email macsrods@yahoo.com)see New Graphite rods and rebuuilt Bamboo fly rods at http://member.aol.com/mcbertin1/macsrods2.htm __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from flatsfishr@home.com Sun Dec 31 13:32:44 2000 eBVJWha01632 ;Sun, 31 Dec 2000 11:32:32 -0800 Subject: Re: Quick Question. Info to be found at www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm converts old systems tonew systems right up to 12 wgt. Keith ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Quick Question. On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Tony Spezio wrote: I can look it up but I can get a quicker answerhere.This is part of a messageThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.I know this aint a flytying matter but still, doesanyone out therehave a conversion table for the AFTM - old lineweight system? What ireally need to know is what an class 9 and 10DT-line would be namedwith the old system. Hi Tony, According to an old Cortland 333 conversion chart:DT9F = GBGWF10F = GAAF Although ather charts have DT9F as GAG DT10F is probably GAG by Cortlands chart or GAAG by others. Also FWIW, I have an old Herters sinking wetfly/nymph line still with thepackaging, labeled GBF or WF-9-S. Other charts say the GBF is an 8wt linehowever. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://flysupplies.homepage.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Dec 31 13:34:09 2000 eBVJY8a01813 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: L R H Day Wet Fly Rod Here's a handy Hardy bamboo rod chart at www.vfish.net/hardy.htm It won'ttell you the line weight your rod needs, but it will tell you what year yourrod was made... 1941 Usually you'll just have to try a few different lines on your rod, but manywill recommend you start with around a 6wt and go up or down from there. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: L R H Day Wet Fly Rod I have a 9' Hardy Palakona L R H Day Wet Fly Rod. Serial Number: E54696.There is no line weight on the rod. If any one is familiar with this rod Iwould like to know what weight plastic and silk lines this rod would handle Thanks, Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from ewp42@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 13:38:22 2000 eBVJcMa02077 2000 11:38:24 PST Subject: Re: Quick Question. Just my opinion, but I believe that at best aconversion of the letter designations to the AFTMAnumerics is a shot-in-the-dark estimate because theold letter designations referenced diameters whereasthe AFTMA numerical designations reference weight ofthe first 30 feet. Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from flatsfishr@home.com Sun Dec 31 13:41:35 2000 eBVJfYa02268 ;Sun, 31 Dec 2000 11:41:27 -0800 Subject: Re: L R H Day Wet Fly Rod You can also contact House of Hardy directly in England. They have recordsof all cane rods manufactured, who bought it first, what dimentions are andline weights. Don't have website handy but should be easy to find. I wouldcontact them after the holidays. Good luck Keith. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: L R H Day Wet Fly Rod Here's a handy Hardy bamboo rod chart at www.vfish.net/hardy.htm Itwon'ttell you the line weight your rod needs, but it will tell you what yearyourrod was made... 1941 Usually you'll just have to try a few different lines on your rod, butmanywill recommend you start with around a 6wt and go up or down from there. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DutcherSent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: L R H Day Wet Fly Rod I have a 9' Hardy Palakona L R H Day Wet Fly Rod. Serial Number:E54696.There is no line weight on the rod. If any one is familiar with this rod Iwould like to know what weight plastic and silk lines this rod wouldhandle Thanks, Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 31 13:55:52 2000 eBVJtqa02662 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: drip varnish tank mod Tony (and all),still hard at it eh Tony?? Good to hear! Inreference your drying/dipping tube mod, I remembered something I saw awhile back that just may help! Try this page.... http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/urushi/dipndry.html I think that should be of some help,Shawn from bh887@lafn.org Sun Dec 31 14:02:43 2000 eBVK2ha02935 forged)) Subject: Virus This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C07321.A45AC120 To All, There seems to be a virus on the list. I may have inadvertantly sent it =along. I am told this is the Snowwhite virus. Suggest everyone take =the time to run their Virus Protection programs. I don't know how I got =it because I missed a day of the list and then downloaded 96 new =messages and I believe it came in that batch. Norton 2000, updated to =Dec 29, seemed to remove it. Not being a computer guru, that is about =all I know...and I am not sure of that! ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C07321.A45AC120 To All, got it because I missed a day of the list and then downloaded 96 new = know...and I am not sure of that! ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C07321.A45AC120-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 31 14:04:26 2000 eBVK4Pa03122 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Thomas Special "Fairy" trout rod Hi list,A while back Dave Van Burgel graciously sent me a photo of arod hanging on the wall at the Maine State museum. The rod plaque aboveit says Thomas Special "Fairy" trout rod. The rod appears blonde andseems to have a very tiny grip.I'm not sure if you are still on here Dave or not, but if you(or anyone else here) could provide me with some details and or a taper Thanks,ShawnP.S. Happy New Year to all !!! from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 14:12:04 2000 eBVKC3a03431 [142.169.183.223] (may be forged)) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: power fibers Joe,you do not have a manufacturing background, correct?Do you honestly think a Rolex watch or a Leica camera is made by hand? Ofcoursenot, they are made on sophisticated computer controlled machines. Does itbotherRolex wearers that their watches were not produced on the treadle lathe asin theold days? I don't think so judging by the sales of Rolex watches.Who say's hand planing is the most accurate, you only work in 5inch stations,what is going on between those 5 in is unknown. You all hand plane becausethatis all you know.I have become very disappointed with cane rodmaking and makers, nothinghaschanged in the last 25 years, there has been no advancement at all. Thosethattry a different tack get shot down because they suggest something otherthan handplaning.I am sorry, hand planing is not commercial rodmaking and you will neverconvinceme otherwise, Terry Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: TerryPeople don't want massed produced bamboo rods, they want handplaned nicely finished rods they can call their own. Most of my customersaresick of all the marketing bullshit buy the big graphite companies andflyfishing rags. These people are the market, and it is not a big one ... butit is big enough to keep rodmakers doing quality work at reasonable pricesbusy most of the time. sitting at the computer trying to convince otherrodmakers is not going to sell rods.Joe from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 14:17:18 2000 eBVKHHa03669 [142.169.183.223] (may be forged)) petermckean ,"'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: power fibers Chris,you have to be very sure that the product can be manufactured and theequipment isreliable.Remember Ginklestein, he tried the reverse and made an ass of himself Christian Meinke wrote: Terry,either you want to do business or build rods as a hobby (even rods sold nowand then)If you want to build rods for a bigger market than you have to findproduction methodswhich will give you a high profit. But you also have do to a lot of advertisingwhich I have not seen anyone on the cane scene doing to the same extentas the biggraphite companies. You have to create a need. A Happy New Year to all on the List Christian 31-12-2000 11:41:16, "T. Ackland" wrote: Tony,hand planing was never the method used to produce rods for thecommercial market.Sure you can produce great rods by hand planing, all the guys on the listcanprove that. How do we know what sort of market there is out there forcane rodswhen we cannot supply them in a commercial quantity (see R. Nantel'sposting).Perhaps there is no market. Perhaps we are all just a bunch ofbullshitters justsitting at our computers dreaming. We honestly do not know just whatthe marketis, perhaps it could explode if the rods were out there? We will never knowunlesswe can make them commercially.I know I'll never plane another rod, and If I cannot develop an easier waythenI'm finished with it. Perhaps I do not really want to make rods any more, Icertainly get more challenge out of building bevellers than rods and canalwaysfind excuses to rebuild or modify.Terry Tony Young wrote: Arguing the toss on what a pro is and isn't is a complete waste of timeespecially when the lines a between an occupation and serious past timeareblured as are the lines between jobs are nowadays anyhow. I have no to what my job description is and my hoby interests are anymore foreg.The important issue is the outcome, the most important outcome is thecontinuity of the craft in the face of increasing blandness of prettymucheverything produced today. The really sad thing is the majority ofpeoplein an age where pretty much anybody can get pretty much anything andownmore and better stuff than kings and heads of state did from 20 yearsagomeans there really is nothing special about much of anything producedanymore. Now the requirement of this outcome is a base of consumers preparedto buyanything offered and the way to do that is advertise heavily andconvinceeverybody the latest offering is the greatest. There is no need to gothrough this on this list because presumably we all want somethingbetterin fly rods at least.The question of where are all the bamboo rods in this latest golden ageofrod makers is moot. I've got to wonder if bamboo rods ever sold ingreatnumbers would make any difference to anybody except for the makersof cheapproduction rods. People inclined to go with advertising would still dotheir "serious" fishing with graphite and the bamboo rod would gomostlyunused just in case they broke it and deep inside they'd "know" you needgraphite for the really big ones.I'm certain decent rods for a mass market could be made but it wouldbe inIndonesia or China not the US. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.IMHO this whole issue of splitting vs sawing and grain runout is aquestionwith no answer everybody would be happy with.Again IMHO this is a follow on from the sawing vs riving of wood and hasadifferent application than bamboo rods. When you rive a piece of woodforturning for eg the block riven could be at 45 degrees for eg to theoriginal length of wood and it's setup and turned as the smaller block asopposed to sawing a length of wood straight and using the resultingblockwithout regard to grain direction. This is bad practice as failures dooccur done this way.Bamboo is different, the "grain" doesn't wander until it reaches thenodeswhich are points of confusion for the grain then continues to the nextnodein a more or less straigh line. The wandering you see during splitting areIMHO just random paths taking the line of least resistance betweennodesand not continuation of any "grain". Incidently, I'd have to see it to believe you could saw good strips fasterthan you can split them using the Bob Nunley (pro maker) method. Thestipsare also as straight as you want them split this way because of thedegreeof control you have during the process. Because there is no real grain there can be no dif between hand planedandmilled strips as far as strength goes.Milled strips are more uniform than hand planed strips can be if done inthe same time and that's the only dif.Does it matter in the end? Maybe to the maker, certainly not to thepunterbuying the rod. These guys are paying serious money for massproducedplastic, why would most care even if they knew the dif? Tony At 07:05 PM 12/29/00 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:According to my dictionary a professional is one that that makes hisliving inarts, sports etc., in which amateurs engage.The Garrison method of hand planing was never intended for full timeprofessional use. I am sure Garrison kept his day job and look at thefollowinghe had at the timeLook back over the last few years and try to remember just howmany handplaners have come and gone. Those that are dug in seem to end upprefering tosell equipment rather than concentrate on just rods.There are more guys now making cane rods than there ever was in thegoldenera,yet where are these rods? I think we are all bullshitting each other!You caninclude me in with that, Terry petermckean wrote: Terry If you mean "amateur" in the original sense of the word, which is"one wholoves", you are probably right in what you say. If you are misusingtheword, as most people do, to mean kind of inferior or using itpatronisinglyto mean "home-made" and of inferior quality, then you are justspoutingbloody rubbish! There are always more ways than one to do a given job; generallynone is"better" than another, just sometimes more suitable for a given setofcircumstances. Not everybody wants to produce rods as fast as possible; for someof usit'sa part time thing; we are "amateurs"; we love it and take time overit,quite unlike the "professionals" at places like Horrocks-Ibbotson, andinthe modern factories in China. And we can live very comfortably without the patronising bullshit,thanks! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "T. Ackland" Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:19 AMSubject: power fibers Just read the pseudo scientific article by Charles Neuner on millingmachines, very inaccurate!Hand planers have to split and straighten the strips because theyhaveto follow the grain, they cannot work it any other way!Professional rodmakers of the past and present using millingmachinesdid not need to follow the grain. It is a fact that rods made fromsawnstrips stay straighter than those that have been split andstraightened. Take a look at some of the classic rods incollectionsand check them out against the hand planed rods being producednow.Cane has a memory and the chances of a straightened stripstayingstraight is minimal.Just try to remember that hand planing is an amateur method ofmakingcane rods, you can butter it up with lots of good sounding "science"but.......Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 14:28:34 2000 eBVKSXa04043 [142.169.183.223] (may be forged)) Subject: Re: power fibers The wife is behind you 100% and goes to work while you flyfish whenever youlike..........sureThe list is getting back to its old self, Terry Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/30/00 8:39:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: from Rodmaking is asking for trouble!" Should be the phrase. >> ChrisOn the other hand, there are many good points to trying to dothis for a living. No, the money is not that great, but that is really amatter of sitting around at this machine instead of being in my shopmakingrods, as a matter of fact as soon as I finish a rod that is not spoken for,it sells very quickly (but most are spoken for).Now for the good points. #1 I am spending some irreplaceabletime watching my two beautiful children learn the in & outs of pre schoolandbus rides, something that most dads will never know. #2 I have a greatwifethat likes her job and is behind me 100%. #3 I live on and own a veryproductive section of trout stream that has very intense hatches of everymayfly and caddis know to the eastern states, that I can fish whenever themood strikes me, and no I don't live on a trust fund. #4 I don't feel thepressure of my used to be job and all the stress related problems thatcamewith it. The only stress I feel now is from people who judge me and otherswith the guts and determination to make rods for a living for what theythinkwe make in dollars. It isn't just money that makes you rich ( see #1& 2 ).#5I love the thought of someone fishing with one of my rods and having thetime of their life with it, kind of funny and a little pathetic when most ofthem make at least five times what I do, and trips to the stream seem tomakemore sense than cell phonesand titanium. #6 The only time I use a cell phone is to call my friends andfamily to find out what's hatching or what's for dinner! #7 The only onelooking over my shoulder is me and the IRS. Well, for me the list is a littlemore extensive than this, craft and art (although some would say B. S) isalso a part of it. As for asking for trouble, what is going to happen, willthe rod police come and kill me or throw me in jail or will I simply have togo back to my old stressful job a few thousand dollars in debt.Joseph (will make rods for food) Perrigo from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Dec 31 14:48:04 2000 eBVKm2a04503 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: power fibers People don't want massed produced bamboo rods,they want handplaned nicely finished rods they can call their own. I agree that people want nicely finished rods but am pretty certain thatthey also want a good action, straightness, no visible glue seams, andsides that are equal in size. Many of these can be better achieved throughthe precision of a beveller than a hand plane. Dickerson's rods are famousfor, among other things, having flats that vary one from the other by only.001-.002" This precision is easier to achieve through a precise bevellerthan a block plane. Richard from flatsfishr@home.com Sun Dec 31 15:05:20 2000 eBVL5Ka04906 ;Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:05:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Quick Question. Granted that was the case but logic dictates that the weight factor wastaken into account to some degree. I'm certain it was not just a flip a cointechnique that was done. I have found that the conversions are a pretty goodstarting point, also take into account that most older makers may not havebeen exact in their line designations. For example I have an F.E.Thomas 8.5'rod that casts anything from a 5wgt to a 7wgt in either DT or WF with novisible strain. Some experimentation may be involved but it's a place forstarting. Keith ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Quick Question. Just my opinion, but I believe that at best aconversion of the letter designations to the AFTMAnumerics is a shot-in-the-dark estimate because theold letter designations referenced diameters whereasthe AFTMA numerical designations reference weight ofthe first 30 feet. Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Dec 31 15:30:04 2000 eBVLU3a05359 Subject: Re: power fibers In a message dated 12/31/00 12:48:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I don't have that much of a problem with tolerances and I never have a glue lines . I think the reason some hand planers have a hard time is that their forms are not that accurate. regardsJoe from emeiler@inetnebr.com Sun Dec 31 15:36:08 2000 eBVLa8a05634 (may be forged)) Subject: Sage quiet tapper Line-( fly lines for cane rods) I purchase but I have not tied it yet. Has anyone tried the Sage Quiet Tapper line series on a bamboo rod?? Thanks Cheers, Elmer (on digest mode) from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 16:19:16 2000 eBVMJGa06241 petermckean@netspace.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: power fibers Joe,not trying to get on your case but you have mentioned several times in thepastthat you had purchased a Bellinger roughing beveller (last may) and how youfound it to be fast and accurate!So what is the problem now, have you given up on the Bellinger, or is it the sticks in the throat?Terry Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/31/00 12:48:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: than a block plane. >>I don't have that much of a problem with tolerances and I never have aglue lines . I think the reason some hand planers have a hard time is thattheir forms are not that accurate. regardsJoe from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 31 16:33:48 2000 eBVMXma06555 Subject: Re: Silk line purchases Olaf told me about a week ago that he had Phoenix in DT 1-8, Thebault in DTand WF 3-8, and that he would be ordering a full compliment of bothcompany's Salmon/Spey tapers in 7-12. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Silk line purchases Try Olaf:oborge@mwt.netI don't know if he has Phoenix and Thebault. (Actually, I don't know Olafeither, except that I hear he is a very honest and fair guy. Also, anexpert on the lines.)No financial interests here, blah, blah....Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from ewp42@yahoo.com Sun Dec 31 16:44:12 2000 eBVMiBa06833 2000 14:44:13 PST Subject: Re: Silk line purchases Thanks Jojo -- I sent Olaf an e-mail asking about hisinventory and pricing. Suspect I'll hear somethingnext week. Just can't comprehend what's got hold of me that I'mthinking of doing this! Haven't fished a silk linesince I had a level D on an old Heddon about -- oh --it must be about 45+ years ago . . . worse yet, withthat setup I was fishing worms! Just seems the right thing to do with 7 canes sittingin the inventory at this point and all of them taking4 or 5 weights. EricDo You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 31 17:00:58 2000 eBVN0va07184 Subject: Re: New California State record trout Great! Another large dead fish sacrificed upon the altar of egotism. Good toknow Arkansas isn't the only place with "sportsman" slobs. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: New California State record trout Mama Mia! http://www.fishinghotpage.com/photow.htm Happy New year everyone! Darrellwww.vfish.net from edriddle@mindspring.com Sun Dec 31 17:09:24 2000 eBVN9Oa07622 Subject: Re: ID some rods help needed Rich: I had a Windsor until a few months ago. It's a trade rod made by Montague,don't know who they made it for. Mine had a gold label w/ black cursivewith green and gold wraps. Don Burns, of the List, may still have his. The white cursive w/ "Tonkin Cane" sounds like Horrocks-Ibbotson,. Heddon made a Petrie Special for a Petrie Hardware in Madison Wisc. , incase the Pedrias is a guess read. Regards,Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: ID some rods help needed I am interested in finding out a resource and or themanufactors name1 Where can I learn more about "Wards Anglers Pride" -I think they are HIs.2 Green label - black lettering says Windsor incursive.3 Piedras Sp(ecials ? is covered) I've heard of thesebut can't remember4 Ike Walton in white cursive with Tonlin Cane on thereverse.5 white cursive very hard to read- LM Dickinoujpicture at :http:\\members.aol.com\mcbertin1\lmdicker.jpg6 white cursive Bill Ratkin also has broken redoutlined label with gold center =====Rich McGaugheyCEO Macsrods(email macsrods@yahoo.com)see New Graphite rods and rebuuilt Bamboo fly rods athttp://member.aol.com/mcbertin1/macsrods2.htm __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from builtone@hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 17:32:38 2000 eBVNWba08026 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:32:31 -0800 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:32:31 GMT Subject: Re: New California State record trout FILETIME=[F216A680:01C07381] There aren't too many posts that patently offend me from this list;you have done so in spades. If you had any knowledge of the Arkansas record catch, which isreadily available, your respect for the now deceased Mr. Collinswould preclude any reputable practitioner of this sport fromposting such a comment. Mark Evans From: "Jojo DeLancier" CC: "and Collecting" Subject: Re: New California State record troutDate: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:57:58 -0600 Great! Another large dead fish sacrificed upon the altar of egotism. Good toknow Arkansas isn't the only place with "sportsman" slobs. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:38 AMSubject: New California State record trout Mama Mia! http://www.fishinghotpage.com/photow.htm Happy New year everyone! Darrellwww.vfish.net _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Dec 31 17:32:56 2000 eBVNWua08078 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Leonard 6'10" rod taper - Anybody built and or cast this rod? Inquiring minds want to know Darrellwww.vfish.net from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Dec 31 17:45:28 2000 eBVNjRa08533 Subject: Re: power fibers petermckean@netspace.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Terry It is not bevellers that stick in my throat, in fact I've been looking into them to help speed things up a bit. It is using them to put out a cheesy ("blue collar") rod that is not up to snuff, that sticks in my throat. Joseph A Perrigo II www.geneseevalleyrods.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Dec 31 18:13:26 2000 f010DPa08970 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:13:29 -0600 Subject: Re: New California State record trout JoJo,I would like explanation of what you mean by this message. You can do it offlist.I normally would just ignore something like this but this is pretty strong.I beg to differ with you, I don't consider myself or my flyfishing friendsslobs. If you are referring to the World Record Brown from the Little Red, Isuggest you get all the facts before making a strong statement.FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Great! Another large dead fish sacrificed upon the altar of egotism. Goodtoknow Arkansas isn't the only place with "sportsman" slobs. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:38 AMSubject: New California State record trout Mama Mia! http://www.fishinghotpage.com/photow.htm Happy New year everyone! Darrellwww.vfish.net from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 31 18:22:00 2000 f010M0a09235 Subject: Re: New California State record trout And you, sir, are apparently unaware that Rip Collins deeply regrettedhaving killed his world record Brown. In fact, he never intended to do so,but through the handling involved in taking the repeated photographs, andthe weighing, the damage was done. That you inferred my comments toincludeRip was an assumption you leapt to, based not upon facts in evidence, butyour own presumption. As a Son of the South, and one native to Arkansas, Iam all too aware of the mentality prevalent that kills anything that moves.The newspapers are full of photographs during the Brown spawn of trophyspecimens killed only for the ego boost of the catcherperson. That the fishis snagged, over and over again, is apparently irrelevant. If you want tosee such fine "sportsmanship" in action I suggest you visit Cow Shoals onthe Little Red River where you may gaze upon spawn raping at it's finest. Ohyes, it is Catch and Release at CS during the spawn, but how many timesmusta fish be caught/snagged in a day/week/month before the fish has hadenough?To further illustrate the point, there have been two new Brook Trout staterecords caught within the last six months. You don't suppose either of thoseis still swimming today, do you? I've seen "guides" during the spawn standwith clients over the top of a redd for hours on end, trying to "catch"anything they can. Gives one a new perspective of the adage "shooting fishin a barrel." Not to mention that the same "guides" then drag their boatsthrough the redds in pursuit of more fish. These are the types of"sportsmen" to which I referred, and Arkansas has them in spades. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New California State record trout There aren't too many posts that patently offend me from this list;you have done so in spades. If you had any knowledge of the Arkansas record catch, which isreadily available, your respect for the now deceased Mr. Collinswould preclude any reputable practitioner of this sport fromposting such a comment. Mark Evans From: "Jojo DeLancier" CC: "and Collecting" Subject: Re: New California State record troutDate: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:57:58 -0600 Great! Another large dead fish sacrificed upon the altar of egotism. Goodtoknow Arkansas isn't the only place with "sportsman" slobs. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:38 AMSubject: New California State record trout Mama Mia! http://www.fishinghotpage.com/photow.htm Happy New year everyone! Darrellwww.vfish.net _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 31 18:27:34 2000 f010RXa09472 Subject: Fw: New California State record trout Tony, I just sent my response to Mark Evan's post. It should explain my meaningwell enough. That anyone would assume that I meant that all anglers wereofthe type mentioned is beyond me. If the shoe doesn't fit, why try to wearit? I am not at all opposed to those who want to keep fish, especially thegray, plastic hatchery variety, but it is more a matter of the mentalitythat goes with some of these people, not that they keep fish, per se, northe manner if which they choose to fish for that matter. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 6:09 PMSubject: Re: New California State record trout JoJo,I would like explanation of what you mean by this message. You can do itofflist.I normally would just ignore something like this but this is prettystrong.I beg to differ with you, I don't consider myself or my flyfishingfriendsslobs. If you are referring to the World Record Brown from the LittleRed,Isuggest you get all the facts before making a strong statement.FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Great! Another large dead fish sacrificed upon the altar of egotism.Good toknow Arkansas isn't the only place with "sportsman" slobs. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:38 AMSubject: New California State record trout Mama Mia! http://www.fishinghotpage.com/photow.htm Happy New year everyone! Darrellwww.vfish.net from dutcher@email.msn.com Sun Dec 31 18:53:22 2000 f010rLa10012 Sun, 31 Dec 2000 16:53:08 -0800 Subject: Re: power fibers Here I am, confused again. If a rod is made of quality cane andcomponents, and made to a good set of measurements, and shows a detailedfinish what difference does it make how it got to that state? If it is amatter of price the material cost is pretty much the same for everyone. Itwould seem it is the time element that would vary cost the most. Qualitytakes time and will show up quite easily in appearance and function. or fishing a rod? Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: power fibers TerryIt is not bevellers that stick in my throat, in fact I'vebeenlooking into them to help speed things up a bit. It is using them to putouta cheesy ("blue collar") rod that is not up to snuff, that sticks in mythroat.Joseph A Perrigo II www.geneseevalleyrods.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Dec 31 20:58:07 2000 f012w6a11040 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Quick Question. Eric,Too true. I have many different charts from different line makers,and very little agreement. Not only does the braiding style (loose ortight, hard or soft), and the varnish weight (some heavier than others)cause a difference, but the length of the taper does as well. Sometapers were 20' long, others were 6'.In short, there is no one table to resolve this. Pity.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Eric Peper wrote: Just my opinion, but I believe that at best aconversion of the letter designations to the AFTMAnumerics is a shot-in-the-dark estimate because theold letter designations referenced diameters whereasthe AFTMA numerical designations reference weight ofthe first 30 feet. Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 31 21:06:42 2000 f0136fa11325 WAA00851; "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Rod Identification Help Needed Hi Darrell,Abercrombie & Fitch had a lot of rods made for them at one time.(includingPayne, Edwards) Also I did own a Rod made by Sewel Dunton called the"Favorite". I think Dunton made rods for A&F after he bought the MontegueRodCo.....I will check, Rich Colo Darrell Lee wrote: It's really hard to id your rod with such sketchy info. Do you have theEXACT day on the patent date? I looked in my US Fsihing Rod Patents bookandthere is no April, 1937 rod patent listed. If you could send me a JPG, maybe I can help you id it... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 6:25 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Rod Identification Help Needed Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One of theNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has worn off. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe from channer1@rmi.net Sun Dec 31 21:11:48 2000 f013Bma11595 Subject: Re: power fibers Terry;I think what we have here is a failure in communication, you areassuming that the rest of us want to make rods commercially when wereally don't. We just like to putter around in our shops, make rods withthe equipment we can afford and if someone wants to buy them for ourprice, then fine and dandy. There are a few on the list who make rodsfull time, by hand, and manage to keep from starving to death whilethey are at it, more power to them, but they have a very small niche ina very small niche market. I think what keeps them, and our, sales goingis partly the aura of "exclusivity" that comes with owning and fishing ahandplaned cane rod, of course, the rods have to work or the whole thingfalls apart. One thing to keep in mind, if there was a market for cheapmass produced cane rods, Cabela's would already be doing it. Orvis andWinston seem to have decided that only the deep of pocket are interestedin bamboo, or worth the effort to go after, which might be a pretty goodclue to the reality of the situation. BTW, someone mentioned theChinese, from what I hear they are already at it, just what the worldneeds.John "T. Ackland" wrote: Joe,you do not have a manufacturing background, correct?Do you honestly think a Rolex watch or a Leica camera is made by hand?Of coursenot, they are made on sophisticated computer controlled machines. Does itbotherRolex wearers that their watches were not produced on the treadle latheas in theold days? I don't think so judging by the sales of Rolex watches.Who say's hand planing is the most accurate, you only work in 5inchstations,what is going on between those 5 in is unknown. You all hand plane becausethatis all you know.I have become very disappointed with cane rodmaking and makers, nothinghaschanged in the last 25 years, there has been no advancement at all. Thosethattry a different tack get shot down because they suggest something otherthan handplaning.I am sorry, hand planing is not commercial rodmaking and you will neverconvinceme otherwise, Terry from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 31 21:16:53 2000 f013Gra11828 WAA01655; tjwilhelm , rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod Identification Help Needed Thanks Doug...don't have to go looking....Rich "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: Joe, I have an A&F Favorite 7'6" 3pc which probably dates from the early1940s.It has the clear fingerprints of the Edwards on it. These rods are fairlydistinctive in that: 1. They have A&F Favorite written in gold script from butt to tip.2. They have a "signature wrap" on the butt side of the writing3. They Generally have a screw down locking "skeleton" type reel seat witheither a platic or wood insert. The metal is usually aluminum.4. The cane is lightly flamed. I hope this helps. I could send you a picture of list. BTW: Edwards also made salmon rods for L.L. Bean. -Doug At 09:25 PM 12/30/00 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Hey folks: A friend brought by a rod that he purchased recently for identification.Here are the particulars: The rod is 9' 3 piece, 2 tip rod. The only markings on the rod is A. F. Favorite. It has a Nickle Silver Reel seat with a removable fighting butt. One of theNS slip rings has engraved on it Patent April 1937. Original Aluminum tube and original sock. The rod tube label has worn off. I would rate this rod in Excellent condition. Please give me your opinions Joe Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 31 21:25:02 2000 f013P1a12156 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: fly lines for cane rods Doug we share very similar tastes. I also have a beautiful Aristocrat 81/2#5. I fish a DT5 Cortland 444 on it and it works well. I agree with thesemi-parabolic feel and with the magic of that particular rod. Although I mayhave to try that TT or hire that Salt-Water Angler. ....Rich "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: I have had good luck with the Wulff Triangle Taper lines. My favorite rod,a Granger Aristocrat 8'6", loves a TT 4-5. The action is "semi parabolic".As the line fished gets longer the rod begins to work more and more intothe lower part of the mid. The long front tapeer of the line seems to workwell with this sort of "progressivity". At the last Grand Gathering a guywho fishes a lot in saltwater easily threw the whole line and about 10' ofbacking. Interestingly the 4 & 5 also works niceley on my Heddon Folsum 9' 2F whichis a much faster rod. Go figure. Gary's point is well taken. What works,works. -Doug At 06:06 AM 12/31/00 -0800, Gary Dabrowski wrote:Hello Darrell; If your cane rod has an action akin to a classicrod such as a Payne, Leonard or Dickerson youwill find that the SA Aircel will work quitewell. This line is quite limp AND has a smalldiameter both characteristics of line typical ofthe era. Rods built with modern graphite-likeactions will likely prefer the modern line. Take the time to measure samples of the variouslines at similar intervals. the results will beinteresting. Modern lines are designed to becast with a graphite rod and for this reason thebamboo fly rod will almost always perform poorlywhen throwing one. The modern line has a largediameter compared to the lines of the Aircellera. This is due in part to the manufacturersdesire for absolute "float-ability" (moremicroballoons per unit of length) and to the verythick coating applied in order to stiffen theline and permit mile long casts with the graphiterod. Keep in mind that lines can be tuned to your rod the front taper up to and into the taper itself.This takes some time and care as one could easilygo too far. The results however are amazing.Like anything else, an understanding of thesystem you are altering including leader designis necessary for success. Bear in mind the subjectivity of opinionsrelating to the utility of certain lines for useon the bamboo fly rod. In many cases they willlikely be formed in part by the reading of fartoo many fishing magazines, a shallow experiencebase and by interests whose only concern is tosell a line. In short, collect information from differentsources, consider your collected database andmake your own decision. Cordially; Gary Dabrowskihttp://brooksiderod.tripod.com --- Art Port wrote:Darrell,I think it was the Scientific Angler AirCelII. Made my whole morning!Art __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Dec 31 21:43:19 2000 f013hIa12563 Subject: Re: power fibers JohnI think you are very right, that's what I meant when I said there is no market for cheap mass produced bamboo rods. People like thelone craftsman thing and to them it means hand planing. Joseph Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 31 21:44:47 2000 f013ika12729 Subject: Re: Leonard 6'10" rod taper - Anybody built and or cast this rod? Darrell, I don't think the rod has ever been listed. I have neverheard of it? Rich Darrell Lee wrote: Inquiring minds want to know Darrellwww.vfish.net from goodaple@tcac.net Sun Dec 31 22:11:53 2000 f014Bqa13221 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: Wood dye recommendation Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C07377.4DDE7160 Happy New Year in advance. I hope that all had a wonderful Christmas. I =do have a question for some of you that have been tinkering with the =reelseat impregnation process. I have started with reelseats and all =seems well. I referred to the archives for the basics. I would now like =to dye some of my inserts. I have been using a combination of acetone, =acrylic, and other additives to create my resin. What type of dye would =any of you recommend and what application process should I use? 1. Dye =wood prior to impregnating or 2. Add dye to impregnating resin. As = that works very well given that you pay attention to running each side =of the strip through and that you don't try to take off too much =material in one pass. I make several passes to avoid problems and to =help mantain the grain. I also make sure to treat the nodes carefully =and to straighten the strips. I like it. I do have to say that I haven't =rough beveled in a long time. Haven't had a rod break yet.Thanks in advance for any advice received. Happy New Year!!! Randall R. =Gregory (NW ARKIE) (I hope I didn't jinx my next rod!!!!) ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C07377.4DDE7160 Happy New Year in advance. I hope that= wonderful Christmas. I do have a question for some of you that have been = tinkering with the reelseat impregnation process. I have started with = and all seems well. I referred to the archives for the basics. I would = to dye some of my inserts. I have been using a combination of acetone, = and other additives to create my resin. What type of dye would any of = impregnating or 2. Add dye to impregnating = works very well given that you pay attention to running each side of the = through and that you don't try to take off too much material in one = I make several passes to avoid problems and to help mantain the grain. I = it. I do have to say that I haven't rough beveled in a long time. = rod break yet.Thanks in advance for any advice = rod!!!!) ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C07377.4DDE7160-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 22:15:33 2000 f014FXa13451 [142.169.183.209] (may be forged)) petermckean@netspace.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: power fibers I only hope Joe, that you tell your customers that you have only been makingrods cheese.Saucy little punk Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: TerryIt is not bevellers that stick in my throat, in fact I've beenlooking into them to help speed things up a bit. It is using them to put outa cheesy ("blue collar") rod that is not up to snuff, that sticks in mythroat.Joseph A Perrigo II www.geneseevalleyrods.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 31 22:18:20 2000 f014IJa13619 [142.169.183.209] (may be forged)) Subject: Re: power fibers how come a bevelled Payne is worth slightly more that one of yours Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: JohnI think you are very right, that's what I meant when I saidthere is no market for cheap mass produced bamboo rods. People like thelonecraftsman thing and to them it means hand planing. Joseph Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Dec 31 22:20:45 2000 f014Kha13845 Subject: resolution revgarve52@vtechworld.com, tord@natverkstan.net, rex374@hotmail.com,rsgould@cmc.net, Garvsinger@aol.com, rcslashclpilot@rcpilot.com,woodwadd@erols.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I got this from a joke service I am subscribed to, thought it might be very applicable to most of "us" certainly to me! mark Are you sick of making the same resolutions year after year that younever keep? Why not promise to do something you can actually accomplish?Here are some resolutions that you can use as a starting point:1. I want to gain weight. Put on at least 30 pounds.2. Stop exercising. Waste of time.3. Read less.4. Watch more TV. I've been missing some good stuff.5. Procrastinate more.6. Drink. Drink some more.7. Take up a new habit: smoking.8. Spend at least $1000 a month on Ladies of the Night.9. Spend more time at work.10. Take a vacation to someplace important: like to see the largest ball of twine. The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. ~ A.Einstein from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 31 22:27:22 2000 f014RLa14247 Subject: Best wishes for the New Year Ahhhhh.... another visit from the C&R Gestapo, and the real Terry is backwith us. Life is good! Hope all have a healthy and prosperous year! Larry Blan from cadams46@juno.com Sun Dec 31 22:29:32 2000 f014TWa14443 23:29:15 EST Subject: Re: Wood dye recommendation I assume your talking about staining your inserts and if you are I'drecomend Kiwi Boot Polish. Just their regualar paste wax works great andit comes in most any color you want to try. from goodaple@tcac.net Sun Dec 31 22:33:36 2000 f014Xaa14683 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: RE: Wood dye Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0737A.56F9F500 I need something that will survive the acetone. Will the polish do this? =Thanks, Randall G. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0737A.56F9F500 I need something that will survive the = Will the polish do this? Thanks, Randall G. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0737A.56F9F500-- from cadams46@juno.com Sun Dec 31 22:35:27 2000 f014ZQa14864 23:35:12 EST Subject: wood dye recommendation Sorry guys I just did 2 things I usually try to avoid. First I repliedbefore actually putting much thought into it and second I unwittingly hitthe send button before I had a chance to sign my foolishness. Readingthe original post again I don't think that gentlemen was really after astain recommendation. So my apologies and Happy New YearC.R. Adams from conranch@ipeg.com Sun Dec 31 22:39:09 2000 f014d7a15108 Subject: Back This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C07369.A637A9C0 Hi Gang,I have been gone someplace. I don't know where but I am back on the = Bamboo room (shop) is set up and opperational in the spare bedroom here = Am happy to be back. Birds are doing well as long as the hard water I =get from time to time does not last too long. Had the darn frost free =freeze again. Yes, I know thay can't do that but no one told my hydrant. =Rest assured that is some fun.Happy New Year to All. It is almost that time on the East Coast. It's =good to be backDennis Dennis ConradCONRANCH HACKLES http://members.tripod.com/CONRANCH/ ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C07369.A637A9C0 Hi Gang,I have been gone someplace. I don't knowwhere = back on the list. Bamboo room (shop) is set up and opperational= spare bedroom here in the house. Am having fun making my own N/S = Am happy to be back. Birds are doing well as = hard water I get from time to time does not last too long. Had the darn = free freeze again. Yes, I know thay can't do that but no one told my = Rest assured that is some fun.Happy New Year to All. It is almost that time = Coast. It's good to be backDennis HACKLESconranch@ipeg.com http://members.tripod.com/CO=NRANCH/ ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C07369.A637A9C0-- from goodaple@tcac.net Sun Dec 31 23:02:17 2000 f0152Ga15571 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: RE:Wood dye Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0737E.587F86C0 C.R. Your post was just fine. I am accepting any advice available. =Thanks for the response. Happy New Year!! Randall G. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0737E.587F86C0 C.R. Your post was just fine. I am = G. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0737E.587F86C0-- from jfoster@gte.net Sun Dec 31 23:13:11 2000 f015DAa15802 ; id XAA34813228 Subject: Re: Best wishes for the New Year Amen Larry Same to you and yours jerry