Subject: Re: Mass lack of appeal have to agree. timothy--- Tony Young wrote:Hey that's a good one tezza obviously public(English) bottom jokes are rightup your alley as it were.This isn't a flame, just a request. Pretty much everybody who's been on this list becomedesensitized in time toyour comments and not a few have fired a broadsideback before thishappens, meincluded. I regretted it in the end because it didno good except cause you tobecome helpful for a change just before you left thelist last time which Iguess was a response to my mentioning I'd never seenyou help in aconstructiveway on the list and you wanted to spite me. Possiblynot but the negative sideof you was muzzled for a short time but seems tohave been released again thistime round. I wrote privately to you in this week passed butdon't know if you read themessage, in any case I wrote how I'm glad to see youback on the list which Iwas and still am which if you think about it iswierd.I enjoy our little snipes as much as you obviouslydo but I honestly wishyou'dresist the temptation of hitting below the belt.Name calling andquestioning aperson's integrity etc is something best left in theplayground of 5 yearolds. It's mean spirited and really uncalled for. I oncewrote things to you which Iwish I didn't thinking you could take as good as yougive but you tookoffence,badly it seemed so it's not like you don't know whatit's like when youpick ona newbie or person who is not looking for this kindof treatment on what forthe vastly greater part is a very friendly list. If you really are on the list for the good of thecraft and "want people tothink for themselves" at least be as tolerant ofpeople as we are of you. Somepositive messages wouldn't be a bad thing on the oddoccasion too.If all you're doing is basically stirring up anant's nest for fun, I wishyou'd bugger off again. Tony At 08:43 AM 1/5/01 -0500, T. Ackland wrote: An Australian comedian? now thats a first petermckean wrote: Dear Listmembers I must say I am not at allsure where this thread isgoing; neither am I at all certain that I care! Iam certainly not going tochange my modus operandi because of anythingAckland tells me; and I amquite sure that what I think does not interesthim in any way at all.Acklandthinks that we are "vindictive little punks" Ithink he is a whingeing Pom,and a wanker, with a very significant problemwith his self esteem! I canonly hope that he makes a full and speedyrecovery from his haemorrhoidsurgery! And I thought I was misusing bandwidthtalking about beer !Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallidfaces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush andnervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stuntedforms and weedy, time to waste. A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jan 5 11:05:59 2001 f05H5vI18713 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 01:05:55 +0800 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 01:05:54 +0800 Subject: Re: Mass lack of appeal petermckean ,"'RODMAKERS'" Tony,lists are all about having a little fun, it is not the real world, no onegetshurt but those that take themselves too seriously. There is absolutely noneed for"experts" like yourself to to be standing by at all hours dishing out largehelpings of advice, there is a search engine for newbies to use that goway backto day one of rodmakers and it has all rehashed a thousand times. I guess, but I'm not standing by all hrs just to dish out advise, some ofthe work I do is online so it's easier and faster to do at night when thereis less traffic. Email arrives and if I have something to say I do. I dothink you take making rods pretty seriously in truth else how to explainthe time and money plowed into an ultimately lost cause with your hands offmill? As it happens I actually do know some of this stuff because much of isn'tstrictly specific to bamboo rods.I'm a touch typist and don't spell check so the replys only take but amoment. It also takes my mind away from what I supposed to be doing whichis a lot more tedious. It's more stimulating than a coffee break anddoesn't affect my sleep.So far as being "expert" is concerned I take that with the grain of saltthat it's intended. Don't know what's normal, a lot of test messages usually indicates acertain stagnation which never happens when you're visiting.I honestly do wish you'd stay on the list but tone things down a bit and ifnot actually help at least have some plain human respect for for yourplaymates and leave other's bucket and spade alone. Tony I shall be back at work on Moday, off the list and back to normal. What isnormal I hopeit was not too much of a chore to delete the crap?800 not bad, not bad at all, see ya, eh?Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 5 11:38:34 2001 f05HcXI20252 Subject: Re: Rod Set Tony Try this. if you have a band saw (it's just faster) saw across thenodes in little thin sections and look at the power fiber's. I wasalways of the opinion that the fibers wandered around through thenodes.. to my surprise what i have found on several culms is all thathappens at the nodes is the power fibers seem to spread a little towardthe pith, the dam in this case. you can also see, if you do largersection, that around the node there seems to be small areas where thepith leaks toward the surface, like an inverted triangle, probablybamboo's way of compensating for the increased diameter at the nodewithout growing new fibers. this cross-sectional view was much differentthan i had expected by always viewing the node from the side whileplanning. i do not have a microscope so i don't know what the littleknarles of lignin are all about. they don't seem to affect the directionof the fibers. the little spikes of pith may be responsible for thewandering at the nodes. Mike will probable ban me from the list for this but.. Whenever Terrance chooses to re-join the list he causes a lot ofdisruption. I think this is purposeful and his only purpose. He and thegink ARE the same person. self aggrandizement by way of self promotingnoise..He indeed has nothing to offer this list because he won't offeranything but noise. I have noted that as soon as he starts his bs i getseveral e-mails (misdirected) on how to resign.the problem is newbee's get the impression that this is the normal toneand aren't very impressed. I as well as others that sink to his level doharm to ourselves and the list..Terry believes that this list shouldn't exist- that everyone shouldlearn it all on there own, or contact him personally for thedissemination of his considerable knowledge. In fact, he has stated thatthe purpose of such lists is for him to float to the top.Personally i agree with him, this is not rocket science, but it is aninteresting craft, with many approaches. If we are not willing to share(most of you are) our different perspectives without rancor, what is thepoint.At this point, with several years of terry under our belts, it must beobvious that terry should find a PROFESSIONAL list somewhere, and leaveus to the self-delusion that we are trying to help OTHERS and learn moreourselves.If the conversations that derived from his appearance were beneficial icould condone his style,but it is apparent to me that his style ishurtful and i'm not impressed.I'm sorry Harry, Reed, and others of a forgiving nature, but i'm oldenough that i have seen this prototype before and although successful atachieving their own ends, serve no useful purpose to me except that offertilizer. no matter how intellectual your approaches are to get auseful extraction from him, i have seen nothing spew forth butchallenges (to which he is not the least interested in the answer) andthe aforementioned guano I do now understand why Wayne resigned a few years ago. enough is enough I do NOT appolgise, in fact, I wish i had Reed's gift and could be moreforceful regards jerry from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 11:45:19 2001 f05HjII20672 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 5 Jan 2001 12:45:05 -0500 Subject: Impregnation from speed) of using some type of pressure/vacuum chamber over justlettingthe blanks sit in the impregnation fluid? Orvis's impregnation patentmentions they used to just leave the blanks in a warm open bath for a weekor so. Thanks in advance, Richard from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Jan 5 12:02:49 2001 f05I2nI21396 Subject: Re: Rod Set One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement this summer isto do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundle intertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigious numbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water and foodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cells formingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick-walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin- walled cells become moreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culm tothe other?The difficulty of course will be attempting to infiltrate the fiber bundleswith paraffin so as to be able to slice them on the microtome. A section offresh, green living (or just freshly cut) bamboo would be necessary,preferably from near the growing tip. This would be the easiest tissue topreserve and fix for proper study, and the tissue will not have become so"woody".Jerry Snider At 09:38 AM 01/05/2001 -0800, Jerry Foster wrote:Tony Try this. if you have a band saw (it's just faster) saw across thenodes in little thin sections and look at the power fiber's. I wasalways of the opinion that the fibers wandered around through thenodes.. to my surprise what i have found on several culms is all thathappens at the nodes is the power fibers seem to spread a little towardthe pith, the dam in this case. you can also see, if you do largersection, that around the node there seems to be small areas where thepith leaks toward the surface, like an inverted triangle, probablybamboo's way of compensating for the increased diameter at the nodewithout growing new fibers. this cross-sectional view was much differentthan i had expected by always viewing the node from the side whileplanning. i do not have a microscope so i don't know what the littleknarles of lignin are all about. they don't seem to affect the directionof the fibers. the little spikes of pith may be responsible for thewandering at the nodes. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 5 12:14:57 2001 f05IEvI23672 Subject: Re: Rod Set Hi Jer wow. that's the correct way to do it of course. i appolgize for my crudetechnique, i'd do it again and post the results, but my scanner isbroken.await your results regards jerry from owen@davies.mv.com Fri Jan 5 12:45:42 2001 f05IjfI24616 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine Illustrating his reasoning with some useful drawings, David W. Smith wrote: I, too, was working my was through his point and, after drawing up theattached diagram, believe Neuner is correct in his statements on thedifferencein the orientation of the fibers between a one-sided milling machine and atwo-sided (hand-planed or Morgan-milled) beveled strip. The clearest explanation yet, for which many thanks. Does it seem to anyone else that this applies only for rough bevelingon a one- sided milling machine? If the rough beveler produces anisosceles triangle, rather than an approximate right triangle, thefinish beveler produces a spline indistinguishable from one made only smaller -- whether it cuts from one side or from both. Also, the problem -- if it really is a problem -- with a one-sided roughbeveler can be minimized by doing the final planing from the side ofthe triangular spline next to the more-or-less-right angle, rather than from the hypotenuse; that is, from the right-hand side of the spline inthe right-hand drawing. When your spline is done, the angles betweenthe enamel and the two sides should be equal. Or so it seems to me. In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. Of course, I haven't yet built my first rod, so take this for what it'sworth. Owen Davies from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 13:01:43 2001 f05J1hI25119 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Le'ts say a plane is used to make four passes on one side and thenfour passes on the other for a total of .020 removed from each side (.005with each pass). (I know, some builders take one pass and flip, otherstwo...) How does the alignment of the power fibers then differ if you take a .010pass with a router on one side and then a .010 pass on the other side? I'm missing something here. Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 13:05:14 2001 f05J5EI25322 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine OOPS. I meant to say "for a total of .010 removed from each side.." in theparagraph below. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 2:00 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Le'ts say a plane is used to make four passes on oneside and thenfour passes on the other for a total of .020 removed fromeach side (.005with each pass). (I know, some builders take one pass and flip, otherstwo...) How does the alignment of the power fibers then differ if youtake a .010pass with a router on one side and then a .010 pass on the other side? I'm missing something here. Richard from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 13:10:35 2001 f05JAZI25669 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:10:29 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: TBFR Stuart,I was wondering the same thing. I subscribed almost 3 years agonow and still never received one magazine. I ended up buying them here inNova Scotia. I've talked to Mark numerous times and finally asked for mymoney back about 5 months ago and he said that he would send it off rightaway.When I returned home just before Christmas I found that he stillhadn't sent the money. I've sent a couple of e mails since that were neveranswered. At $60 Canadian for 1 year subscription, I have almost paid fortwo subscriptions in phone calls.Mark seems like a decent guy and he put out one hell of a magazine but Ifind his organizational skills a little lacking.I think I will call him again this afternoon! When I get of the phone from that I'm going to phone the loser in Colorado that owes me $130Canadian for the Bamboo book I bought on E bay and never received. Bet henever figured I would find his home phone number and work number, ahh thewonders of the internet! Should be an interesting afternoon!Shawn stuart moultrie wrote: Goodmorning, Is the Bamboo Fly Rod magazine up and running again? Sorry for dragging this old topic up again, I keep seeing mentions ofit on various sites and the BFR site looks as though it is being updatedbut I never seem to have actually had an answer to my requests forsubscription. Thankyou Stuart from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 13:13:53 2001 f05JDqI25945 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:13:47 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine I must be missing it too Richard! To me a pass is a pass if you are doingalternating sides it should be the same as hand planing (only faster). Icould see if you were using a milling wheel that does both sides at once. Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Le'ts say a plane is used to make four passes on one side and thenfour passes on the other for a total of .020 removed from each side (.005with each pass). (I know, some builders take one pass and flip, otherstwo...) How does the alignment of the power fibers then differ if you take a .010pass with a router on one side and then a .010 pass on the other side? I'm missing something here. Richard from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Jan 5 13:14:44 2001 f05JEhI26094 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:14:33 +0000 Subject: Re: TBFR Perhaps Bob Malucci can advise whats happening......Power Fibers makesrefernce to them? Shawn Pineo wrote: Stuart,I was wondering the same thing. I subscribed almost 3 years agonow and still never received one magazine. I ended up buying them here inNova Scotia. I've talked to Mark numerous times and finally asked for mymoney back about 5 months ago and he said that he would send it off rightaway.When I returned home just before Christmas I found that he stillhadn't sent the money. I've sent a couple of e mails since that were neveranswered. At $60 Canadian for 1 year subscription, I have almost paid fortwo subscriptions in phone calls.Mark seems like a decent guy and he put out one hell of a magazine but Ifind his organizational skills a little lacking.I think I will call him again this afternoon! When I get of the phone from that I'm going to phone the loser in Colorado that owes me $130Canadian for the Bamboo book I bought on E bay and never received. Bet henever figured I would find his home phone number and work number, ahhthewonders of the internet! Should be an interesting afternoon!Shawn stuart moultrie wrote: Goodmorning, Is the Bamboo Fly Rod magazine up and running again? Sorry for dragging this old topic up again, I keep seeing mentions ofit on various sites and the BFR site looks as though it is being updatedbut I never seem to have actually had an answer to my requests forsubscription. Thankyou Stuart from CALucker@aol.com Fri Jan 5 13:44:39 2001 f05JicI27405 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In a message dated 1/5/01 7:42:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I guess this is the explanation why guys who taper one side of a strip, such as EC Powell, Walton Powell, Max Yerxa, Tony Maslan, and Clem LaVoy,were/are never able to make any rods. Of course I am joking. Tapering one side of a rough sixty is fine. Look at the rods of the makers noted above. There are no greater number of fibers ranout on an EC Powell rod than one that has strips tapered on both sides, it's just that they stop on one side of the taper, rather than both. If you are that afraid of runout, I would suggest you make untapered rods.Not trying to be mean spirited, just tired of folks not believing anything but commonly held misconceptions. And, I am trying to defend the honor ofEC Powell sticks. The author of the Powerfibers article was pointing to a conclusion that EC Powells and similar rods were not made the right way. Regarding all the arguing about milling machines, I think it would be helpful getting into heated discussions about the pros and cons of mills. CNCbamboo mills may not be the most fun to operate, but they sure do good work. Chris Lucker from owen@davies.mv.com Fri Jan 5 14:04:41 2001 f05K4eI28370 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine Richard Nantel reasonably said: I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Me, too. My impression was that the article dealt with machinesremoving all of the cane from one side of the strip, in one ormore passes, rather than from both sides. It points out a possibleproblem, but one that seems pretty easy to avoid. Owen Davies from briansr@point-net.com Fri Jan 5 15:25:58 2001 f05LPvI01294 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:25:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine Thank's Chris Andy Barr ,here in Montreal used a Milling/beveller devise to makepentas.Even to final "planing".Most of his rods today are as true as themilling machine spat them out !!Ahhhh!!!!!!! the very thought of Terry and AB on Rodmakers !!!!!! LOL!!!!!!! A quadrouple broadside from HMS Curmujin !!!!!Cheers Brian---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In a message dated 1/5/01 7:42:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: one pass will skew the angle of the fibers, making them run off the sidesrather than go straight along the strip. I'm still a week or so away from trying out my Millward-style bevellerbutwould suspect that taking an entire side down to size in one pass willnotbe possible without getting some rather chewed up strips. >> I guess this is the explanation why guys who taper one side of a strip,suchas EC Powell, Walton Powell, Max Yerxa, Tony Maslan, and Clem LaVoy,were/arenever able to make any rods. Of course I am joking. Tapering one side of a rough sixty is fine. Look at the rods of themakersnoted above. There are no greater number of fibers ranout on an ECPowellrod than one that has strips tapered on both sides, it's just that theystopon one side of the taper, rather than both. If you are that afraid of runout, I would suggest you make untapered rods.Not trying to be mean spirited, just tired of folks not believing anythingbut commonly held misconceptions. And, I am trying to defend the honorofECPowell sticks. The author of the Powerfibers article was pointing to aconclusion that EC Powells and similar rods were not made the right way. Regarding all the arguing about milling machines, I think it would behelpful beforegetting into heated discussions about the pros and cons of mills. CNCbamboomills may not be the most fun to operate, but they sure do good work. Chris Lucker from across@www.downandacross.com Fri Jan 5 17:34:15 2001 f05NYDI04449 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:31:42 -0500 Subject: Re: TBFR No idea. Sorry. Wish I could help, but I don't know anything about Mark's business except that the banner exchange has brought me many hits. Hissite seems very active.Best regards,Bob M. At 07:13 PM 1/5/2001 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:Perhaps Bob Malucci can advise whats happening......Power Fibers makesrefernce to them? Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jan 5 17:51:14 2001 f05NpDI04799 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Bastard Terry, You Terry being an artist wannabe are making works of art. Imake "fish poles". It is my experience that how the blank comes out ofthe binder with the glue "wet" determines if the rod will be setresistant. But "what do I know". Best, Marty Marty,this list is not about making fishing poles, it is about creating exquisiteworks of art to immortalize the makers.It is my experience that if you can straighten a rod with mild heat thenthere is a problem and the set will keep returning. I came to thisconclusion in my workshop, not by sitting in front of a screen marty wrote: Hi all, This list is begining to read like a mean spirited lurecollectors list. The fact is that all fly rods are made to cast a lineand catch fish. It does not matter if the taper is taken every 1" or 10"or if made on a form or beveller as long as it casts a line well enoughto present a fly ( or in Dennis H. friend Andy's case a kernel ofcorn). I also do not think it's a big deal to once or twice a yearheat straighten a rod set from use. This can be done in 2 min. over aheat gun and no, you do not have to heat the rod up to the varnishmelting point as Terry does. He needs some practice.Now that said when Terry markets a Leonard or Payne style beveller for$1500 I will be the first in line to purchase one. Until then, I willcontinue haplessly planing away. Marty from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri Jan 5 18:48:13 2001 f060mCI05516 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 Subject: Re: TBFR snipped> Hissite seems very active. probably all the people trying to figure out how to get the magazine they paid for !! Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from cadams46@juno.com Fri Jan 5 19:05:10 2001 f06159I05910 20:04:35 EST Subject: Milling Machine With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machines are? I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the only booksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? Thanks Sincerely,C.R. Adams from across@www.downandacross.com Fri Jan 5 19:40:38 2001 f061ebI06838 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:38:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Milling Machine The Dickerson book has a good look at his mill. The Golden Witch site has pictures of Bellinger's mill that is about the same thing. I have Keane, Campbell, and a few other books, but none really give you a good look at any makers mill if I recall correctly. Have you seen the mill in The Best of the Planing Form? That's do-able,Best regards,Bob At 06:06 PM 1/5/2001 -0700, you wrote:With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machines are?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the only booksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 19:50:57 2001 f061ouI07400 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Milling Machine any makers mill if I recall correctly. Have you seen the millin The Bestof the Planing Form? That's do-able, That's the one I'm working on. I'll provide reviews when finished andtested. Richard from across@www.downandacross.com Fri Jan 5 20:01:57 2001 f0621uI07894 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:58:38 -0500 Subject: Re: TBFR, now ad swaps Dear List:I would like you all to know that I have received several messages off list regarding TBFR, and I respect your grievances with them. My arrangements with TBFR have been fulfilled from my end, and I will seriously consider what relationships (if any) to have with him in the future when my own readership/friends have such compelling opinions about this. But.... As far as this thread goes, I regret having been dragged into the middle of an issue that isn't really my business. I hope you can respect that. Anyone on the list who knows or has corresponded with me knows that I have always tried to be fair with everyone I deal with. I have no ulterior motives, and believe me, no one is getting rich off Power Fibers. (although TA thinks I am selling Wayne's book through Amazon.com or whatever that jab was allabout!) I realize that by even responding to this thread, I am prolonging this negative publicity, but I don't want anyone thinking of me as one who sleeps with the enemy either. My having any relationship with Mark, who has actually done everything for me that he has promised, doesn't mean that your grievances are not legitimate. It is just that your relationships with his magazine are your business and not mine. Yeah, if I had subscribed and not received anything, you bet I would be pissed too. But I didn't, and unfortunately, I never thought twice about it when I was approached by TBFR to swap ads. I hope, as you do, that I see that Power Fibers ad someday in print, and that a new issue of TBFR comes out for all of us to enjoy. I hope this comes out the way I intended it to, respectfully and sympathetically. I'll shut up now.... Best regards,Bob Maulucci At 05:42 PM 1/5/2001 -0700, Jim Flinchbaugh wrote:snipped>Hissiteseems very active. probably all the people trying to figure out how to get the magazinethey paid for !!Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 20:32:59 2001 f062WwI09264 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:32:53 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: TBFR, now ad swaps Bob,sorry you were dragged into the middle of this. I meant no harm to Markorhis magazine, only responding to a question about the BFRM and waswondering ifanyone else had contact as my e mails go unanswered and I could get noanswer atthe phone # listed on the web page.I think that back awhile ago you had mentioned being in contact withMark,perhaps that is why your name was mentioned.Shawn Bob Maulucci wrote: Dear List:I would like you all to know that I have received several messages offlist regarding TBFR, and I respect your grievances with them. Myarrangements with TBFR have been fulfilled from my end, and I willseriously consider what relationships (if any) to have with him in thefuture when my own readership/friends have such compelling opinionsaboutthis. But.... As far as this thread goes, I regret having been dragged into the middle ofan issue that isn't really my business. I hope you can respect that. Anyoneon the list who knows or has corresponded with me knows that I havealwaystried to be fair with everyone I deal with. I have no ulterior motives, andbelieve me, no one is getting rich off Power Fibers. (although TA thinks Iam selling Wayne's book through Amazon.com or whatever that jab was allabout!) I realize that by even responding to this thread, I am prolonging thisnegative publicity, but I don't want anyone thinking of me as one whosleeps with the enemy either. My having any relationship with Mark, whohas actually done everything for me that he has promised, doesn't meanthatyour grievances are not legitimate. It is just that your relationships withhis magazine are your business and not mine. Yeah, if I had subscribed andnot received anything, you bet I would be pissed too. But I didn't, andunfortunately, I never thought twice about it when I was approached byTBFRto swap ads. I hope, as you do, that I see that Power Fibers ad someday inprint, and that a new issue of TBFR comes out for all of us to enjoy. I hope this comes out the way I intended it to, respectfully andsympathetically. I'll shut up now.... Best regards,Bob Maulucci At 05:42 PM 1/5/2001 -0700, Jim Flinchbaugh wrote:snipped>Hissiteseems very active. probably all the people trying to figure out how to get the magazinethey paid for !!Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 20:35:51 2001 f062ZpI09607 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:35:46 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Milling Machine I am working on one similar to the one on Chris Bogart's site made by (Ibelieve) Al Medved. It is about one of the simplest ones I have seen and usesa router. Shawn cadams46@juno.com wrote: With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machinesare?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the only booksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 5 20:59:52 2001 f062xpI10493 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk Lines Came today Thanks for all you effort Bob, well appreciated. Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Guys:I got the 9 DT4s today, enough for everyone waiting (even me!) I will getthem out tonight at the 24/7 USPS. Still no word on other DT sizes or WFlines.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from timklein@uswest.net Fri Jan 5 21:07:09 2001 f06378I11067 (63.225.240.148) Subject: Re: Straightening blank near butt Michael Roberts wrote: Since there has been a bit of interest in local weather on thelist lately, I thought some of the gang might be interested in what it'slike down-under in West Oz at the moment: Sky, cloudlessAir temp. 90 degrees FBeach sand, brilliant whiteSea water, crystal clearBeer, icy cold Who was that guy that coined the phrase, "Just another lousy day inParadise". : ) Off to the beach now Cruel bastard! ---Tim from flatsfishr@home.com Fri Jan 5 21:07:19 2001 f0637JI11077 Subject: content of messages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C07764.1091CF00 Sirs, I joined this list under the impression that it was to do with =the subject of the construction and the equipment for split bamboo fly =rods. To this point I must say I am dissappointed in the constant =zinging being done between certain people, the references used to =describe others and the lack of actual usable information (without =sifting through the constant drivel of the few) . According to the =e-mail I received when I joined it states: "This is a good natured list. =Strong language, spam and flaming are not welcome. Repeat offenders will =be removed from list without warning. Try to keep your posts relevant to =the subject of rodmaking. We all wander from time to time, but please = I am not suggesting a lack of fun on the list, but isn't the main =point of this to help those who need it and to discuss rod making =matters. To suggest I do not disagree with others and tell them so in =strong langage is wrong, but I would not do it in a public forum. I will =stick it out for a while and see if things change if not I regret I will =remove myself from the list and not recommend anyone else I know join =it. To those who post proper questions and answers I appologize for my =frankness here, but it's gotten to the point where I had to say =something. Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C07764.1091CF00 Sirs, I joined this list under the impression = was to do with the subject of the construction and the equipment for = bamboo fly rods. To this point I must say I am dissappointed in the = zinging being done between certain people, the references used to = others and the lack of actual usable information (without sifting = e-mail I received when I joined it states: "This is a good natured = Strong language, spam and flaming are not welcome. Repeat offenders = removed from list without warning. Try to keep your posts relevant = subject of rodmaking. We all wander from time to time, but please = to a minimum." I am not suggesting a lack of fun on the list, = the main point of this to help those who need it and to discuss rod = in strong langage is wrong, but I would not do it in a public forum. I = stick it out for a while and see if things change if not I regret I = remove myself from the list and not recommend anyone else I know join = those who post proper questions and answers I appologize for my = here, but it's gotten to the point where I had to say = hopefully Keith Weeks. ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C07764.1091CF00-- from timklein@uswest.net Fri Jan 5 21:08:47 2001 f0638jI11401 (63.225.240.148) Subject: Re: Straightening blank near butt Tony Young wrote: Mike, you forgot to mention there are another 4 months of this before itgets nice ;-) Ditto... ---Tim from goodaple@tcac.net Fri Jan 5 21:09:19 2001 f0639II11528 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) Subject: Re: Milling Machine Organization: Shawn, I made one of these types and I use it regularly. I modified mine totake a metal instead of acrylic front guard plate because the pressure ofthe hold downs was too much for the acrylic and kept busting. Overall I likemine very much. My thanks to the designer and to Chris for posting it to hiswebsite. The design was a very nice gift to fellow rodmakers. Thanks againand good luck with yours Shawn. Randall R. Gregory ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Milling Machine I am working on one similar to the one on Chris Bogart's site made by (Ibelieve) Al Medved. It is about one of the simplest ones I have seen andusesa router. Shawn cadams46@juno.com wrote: With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machinesare?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the onlybooksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from ctn45555@centurytel.net Fri Jan 5 21:11:48 2001 f063BmI11980 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Taper Advice I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper wind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless (see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the large drop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seems like demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very much enjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan 5 22:22:01 2001 f064M0I13383 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:21:53 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, (or should I say, "Cuz")You could do a lot worse than translating Wayne Cattanach's "Sir D"taper into a 5 weight. Or dropping a Payne 101 down to 7 feet.If you need help fooling around with the tapers, let me know. Harry Boyd Chad Boyd wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan 5 22:31:35 2001 f064VYI13733 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:32:47 -0600 Subject: Re: content of messages Keith, I can understand your concerns, but honestly, you just joined at aninopportune time. Seems that too much vacation time always gives birthto many such diatribes as well as good natured 'non-rodbuilding' topics(I seem to recall a long bit of a thread regarding grits)! Staytuned. Better yet, spend some serious time perusing the archives.Much of the list discussion is driven by the latest news in someone'sexperimentations (think of adhesives, bamboo ferrules, finishingtechniques, etc.) and can become quite esoteric for the uninitiated. Weseem to keep on topic best when newcomers ask basic questions. Don't beshy... ask away. If you are reluctant to get into the fray, search thearchives. Nearly every newbie question has been addressed and there isso much information in the archives that this resource is trulypriceless. But, I suggest that you do become involved in discussions.Otherwise, when you attend a rodmaker's gathering, how will we be ableto have misguided perceptions of who you really are? That would beunfair advantage since we show our %& every so often. Rick Crenshaw KeithW wrote: Sirs, I joined this list under the impression that it wasto do with the subject of the construction and the equipment dissappointed in the constant zinging being done betweencertain people, the references used to describe others andthe lack of actual usable information (without siftingthrough the constant drivel of the few) . According tothe e- mail I received when I joined it states: "This is agood natured list. Strong language, spam and flaming are notwelcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from list withoutwarning. Try to keep your posts relevant to the subject ofrodmaking. We all wander from time to time, but please keepit to a minimum."I am not suggesting a lack of fun on thelist, but isn't the main point of this to help those whoneed it and to discuss rod making matters. To suggest I donot disagree with others and tell them so in strong langageis wrong, but I would not do it in a public forum. I willstick it out for a while and see if things change if not Iregret I will remove myself from the list and not recommendanyone else I know join it. To those who post properquestions and answers I appologize for my frankness here,but it's gotten to the point where I had to say something.Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. from channer1@rmi.net Fri Jan 5 22:35:50 2001 f064ZnI13988 Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe that each rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose he used randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper wind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless (see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the large drop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seems like demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very much enjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from flatsfishr@home.com Fri Jan 5 23:02:41 2001 f0652eI14566 ;Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:02:17 -0800 Subject: Re: content of messages Harry I joined on Dec 22,2000, after finally becoming a computer user willstick with it. Have been around rodmakers for a long time was just sosurprised at the conversations over the last while. Must say the e-mails Ihave received so far show positively most of the group seem like fine guys,but in every group a few can spoil the look of the whole. Thanks for thehelp Keith Weeks. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: content of messages Keith,May I ask when you joined the list? The reason for thequestion is that things have been unusually acrimoniousaround here lately. I've been a part of the list for about5 years, and can promise you that about 80% of the timethings aren't so ugly. About once or twice a year we havethese flair- ups, and within a few days or weeks things areback to normal.I'm well aware of the note you received when you joinedthe list. In fact, I wrote it. -- a little over three yearsago, after another one of these flair ups -- But the factis that the list is not a public forum. It issemi-private. To participate requires that one join. Andthose of us who have joined, have come to know and care foreach other over the years. Family feuds can be the ugliestfights. What you are currently seeing is just that, a feudamong a diverse group of folks, many of whom considerthemselves almost family.Though I have no "official" status as an owner oroperator of the list, I am one of the more prolificposters. Through the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, I've metover 100 different rodmakers and list members in person.Almost without exception, they are wonderful people, thekind you would enjoy spending time fishing with. Even Terryis a nicer guy in person than he appears on this list.You have made the right decision to stick with us for awhile. By this time next week I think you will see thatthings are much more friendly and helpful.I'm sorry you have gotten a bad impression, and if I cando anything to help you in rod making, just let me know. Harry Boyd KeithW wrote: Sirs, I joined this list under the impressionthat it was to do with the subject of theconstruction and the equipment for split bamboofly rods. To this point I must say I amdissappointed in the constant zinging being donebetween certain people, the references used todescribe others and the lack of actual usableinformation (without sifting through theconstant drivel of the few) . According tothe e-mail I received when I joined it states:"This is a good natured list. Strong language,spam and flaming are not welcome. Repeatoffenders will be removed from list withoutwarning. Try to keep your posts relevant to thesubject of rodmaking. We all wander from time totime, but please keep it to a minimum."I am notsuggesting a lack of fun on the list, but isn'tthe main point of this to help those who need itand to discuss rod making matters. To suggest Ido not disagree with others and tell them so instrong langage is wrong, but I would not do itin a public forum. I will stick it out for awhile and see if things change if not I regret Iwill remove myself from the list and notrecommend anyone else I know join it. To thosewho post proper questions and answers Iappologize for my frankness here, but it'sgotten to the point where I had to saysomething. Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jan 6 04:30:37 2001 f06AUZI18540 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line. The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by two thus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z" style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe that each rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose he usedrandomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper wind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless (see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the large drop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seems like demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very much enjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan 6 05:57:04 2001 f06Bv2I19493 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:56:57 +0800 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:56:55 +0800 Subject: Re: content of messages Keith,if you look through the archives you'll find several books worth of advise oneverything from sharpening plane irons to the irons themselves, heattreating,tapers , finish methods etc etc etc as well as a lot of other stuff includingmessages like yours voicing concern at the tone of the list or lack of usefulinfo. It may be worth remembering the advise is given freely by list members,nobodyis required to keep feeding info non stop and a lot of things have beenrepeated over and over again in responce to questions and comments.If you want to know something, ask, you'll get all the answers you need. Tony At 10:08 PM 1/5/01 -0500, KeithW wrote: Sirs, I joined this list under the impression that it was to do with thesubject of the construction and the equipment for split bamboo fly rods.Tothis point I must say I am dissappointed in the constant zinging being donebetween certain people, the references used to describe others and thelackof actual usable information (without sifting through the constant drivel ofthe few) . According to the e-mail I received when I joined it states:"This is a good natured list. Strong language, spam and flaming are notwelcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from list without warning. Trytokeep your posts relevant to the subject of rodmaking. We all wander fromtimeto time, but please keep it to a minimum." I am not suggesting a lack of fun on the list, but isn't the main point ofthis to help those who need it and to discuss rod making matters. TosuggestI do not disagree with others and tell them so in strong langage is wrong,but I would not do it in a public forum. I will stick it out for a while andsee if things change if not I regret I will remove myself from the list andnot recommend anyone else I know join it. To those who post properquestionsand answers I appologize for my frankness here, but it's gotten to thepointwhere I had to say something. Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Jan 6 07:36:27 2001 f06DaQI20649 Subject: content of messages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C077AB.4F9D5D80 Keith rod making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a thousand =hours searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters of our =craft. I sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list has =moved in the past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room = musing and rants of those who seem to disrupt our otherwise pristine =little cyberspace do serve a purpose. For myself they tend to stimulate =my thought process on subjects seldom visited. There is a brilliant mind =on this list and one would do well to listen. Welcome aboard! Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C077AB.4F9D5D80 Keith making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a thousand hours = searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters of our craft. I = sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list has moved in the = few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room for far too long = is not the norm. I must admit though that the musing and rants of those = to disrupt our otherwise pristine little cyberspace do serve a purpose. = myself they tend to stimulate my thought process on subjects seldom = There is a brilliant mind on this list and one would do well to listen. = aboard!Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C077AB.4F9D5D80-- from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Jan 6 07:53:44 2001 f06DrhI20994 (63.228.45.217) Subject: Re: content of messages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C077B7.A5780280 Do we judge people for judging people? Little children sometimes taunt =others by saying "what you say is what you are"Dave-----Original Message--- --From: Ronnie L. Rees Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001 7:37 AMSubject: content of messages Keith of rod making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a =thousand hours searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters =of our craft. I sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list =has moved in the past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the =room for far too long that this is not the norm. I must admit though =that the musing and rants of those who seem to disrupt our otherwise =pristine little cyberspace do serve a purpose. For myself they tend to =stimulate my thought process on subjects seldom visited. There is a =brilliant mind on this list and one would do well to listen. Welcome =aboard! Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C077B7.A5780280 you say is what you are"Dave -----Original = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, January 06, 2001 7:37 AMSubject: contentof = messages Keith rod making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a = searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters of our = sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list has moved in = past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room for far = that this is not the norm. I must admit though that the musing and = those who seem to disrupt our otherwise pristine little cyberspace = a purpose. For myself they tend to stimulate my thought process on = seldom visited. There is a brilliant mind on this list and one would = to listen. Welcome aboard!Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C077B7.A5780280-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan 6 10:09:28 2001 f06G9QI24560 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:09:24 +0800 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:09:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Rod Set "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is the effectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement this summeristo do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundle intertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigious numbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water and foodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culm tothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Jan 6 10:24:44 2001 f06GOhI24943 Subject: Re: Rod Set "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" I suspect that this could be an easy thing to test, and I have all of theequipment needed to do so (not strength but to determine any changes incell anatomy/morphology from a light microscope standpoint) includingphotographic setup, microscopes, etc. Indeed, I just sent an e-mail to oneof my former graduate students who is a plant anatomist and have ask herhow I might fix and prepare bamboo for microtoming at the light microscopelevel. The tissue is so "woody" that it might be difficult to obtaininfiltration of wax (through an alcohol dehydration series intoalcohol/mineral oil, mineral oil then into mineral oil/wax then into purewax). The latter is the technique commonly utilized for such studies, and Ido this routinely (but not on woody tissues)in my lab.However, I am embarrassed to admit that I came extremely close to losingthe index and middle fingers of my right hand (I am right handed) to arouter accident ca. 8 weeks ago, and although I am at the point I can tieflies and use the Morgan Hand Mill, I can't hold a fly rod and at themoment my therapist is working towards that goal. The router fell out ofthe router table onto my right hand and "stuff" flew all over the place.STUPID!However, since I am retiring this summer but am keeping my lab space at theUniversity for the next 3-4 years, I will now be able to do the funresearch stuff I couldn't do before due to "publish/perish" pressure. Iwould surely love to do the bamboo anatomy as previously mentioned.Wouldn't it be great to either support/shake the concepts of bamboo rodbuilding thoughts on anatomy? I say this not out of malice, but in a mostpositive way of providing some scientific anatomical evidence. I suspectthat some things will turn out to be accurate, some may require rethinkingon our part.Does any of this make sense?My best to you both Jerry Snider At 12:10 AM 01/07/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is the effectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement this summeristo do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundle intertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigiousnumbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water andfoodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separatedby>>thin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culmtothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Jan 6 10:29:53 2001 f06GTrI25201 Subject: Re: Rod Set "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Oops, my apologies. I did not mean this to go to the list serv. Sorry.J. Snider At 11:27 AM 01/06/2001 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:I suspect that this could be an easy thing to test, and I have all of theequipment needed to do so (not strength but to determine any changes incell anatomy/morphology from a light microscope standpoint) includingphotographic setup, microscopes, etc. Indeed, I just sent an e-mail to oneof my former graduate students who is a plant anatomist and have ask herhow I might fix and prepare bamboo for microtoming at the light microscopelevel. The tissue is so "woody" that it might be difficult to obtaininfiltration of wax (through an alcohol dehydration series intoalcohol/mineral oil, mineral oil then into mineral oil/wax then into purewax). The latter is the technique commonly utilized for such studies, and Ido this routinely (but not on woody tissues)in my lab.However, I am embarrassed to admit that I came extremely close to losingthe index and middle fingers of my right hand (I am right handed) to arouter accident ca. 8 weeks ago, and although I am at the point I can tieflies and use the Morgan Hand Mill, I can't hold a fly rod and at themoment my therapist is working towards that goal. The router fell out ofthe router table onto my right hand and "stuff" flew all over the place.STUPID!However, since I am retiring this summer but am keeping my lab space attheUniversity for the next 3-4 years, I will now be able to do the funresearch stuff I couldn't do before due to "publish/perish" pressure. Iwould surely love to do the bamboo anatomy as previously mentioned.Wouldn't it be great to either support/shake the concepts of bamboo rodbuilding thoughts on anatomy? I say this not out of malice, but in a mostpositive way of providing some scientific anatomical evidence. I suspectthat some things will turn out to be accurate, some may require rethinkingon our part.Does any of this make sense?My best to you both Jerry Snider At 12:10 AM 01/07/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is theeffectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement thissummer isto do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundleintertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigiousnumbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water andfoodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culmtothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan 6 10:37:55 2001 f06GbsI25501 Subject: Re: content of messages Yeah, Ron, but which one??????Art from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Jan 6 11:05:04 2001 f06H53I26115 Subject: Re: content of messages ?Keith making can be foundright in the archives. I have spent a thousand hours searching forknowledge placed there by thetrue Masters of our craft. I sympathize with concerns of the direction thatthe list has moved inthe past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room for far toolong that this is notthe norm. I must admit though that the musing and rants of those who seemtodisrupt ourotherwise pristine little cyberspace do serve a purpose. For myself theytend to stimulate mythought process on subjects seldom visited. There is a brilliant mind onthis list and one woulddo well to listen. Welcome aboard!Ron ArtI use the word brilliant in a collective since like one would in a braintrust. Many individualseach accomplished pulling together to reach one common goal.Ron from oossg@vbe.com Sat Jan 6 11:27:22 2001 f06HRLI26704 f06HRKW27271 Organization: Oshkosh Office Systems Subject: Saw Design With the recent discussion of sawing verse splitting, I was wondering ifany out there have a simple jig setup for cutting cane. I would like totry a comparison with sections from sawn and split methods and see formyself the differences.Any help would be appreciated.Scott from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Sat Jan 6 11:43:35 2001 f06HhYI27286 Subject: Re: Saw Design Scott, JW makes a simple little jig for just such a job. he can be reached at (559) 587 9655 or jwflyrod@jwflyrods.com. no commercial interest, ect. etc Tight Lines, Chuck from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Jan 6 12:36:27 2001 f06IaQI28479 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Taper Advice A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on the action of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather than change the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking rod will be to handle somewind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from jhewittiii@springsips.com Sat Jan 6 12:37:10 2001 f06Ib9I28605 springsips.com) (63.29.89.94) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Rod Set Jerry,I, for one, am glad you did send this message to the list. I would bemost interested in seeing the results of your testing. Amazingly I think thisisone of the few areas that has not been thouroughly probed in the years Ihavebeen on the list.I hope the fingers heal quickly and completely. Every time I hear of a shopaccident it serves to make me more careful in my own shop. John Hewitt Jerry Snider wrote: I suspect that this could be an easy thing to test, and I have all of theequipment needed to do so (not strength but to determine any changes incell anatomy/morphology from a light microscope standpoint) includingphotographic setup, microscopes, etc. Indeed, I just sent an e-mail to oneof my former graduate students who is a plant anatomist and have ask herhow I might fix and prepare bamboo for microtoming at the lightmicroscopelevel. The tissue is so "woody" that it might be difficult to obtaininfiltration of wax (through an alcohol dehydration series intoalcohol/mineral oil, mineral oil then into mineral oil/wax then into purewax). The latter is the technique commonly utilized for such studies, and Ido this routinely (but not on woody tissues)in my lab.However, I am embarrassed to admit that I came extremely close to losingthe index and middle fingers of my right hand (I am right handed) to arouter accident ca. 8 weeks ago, and although I am at the point I can tieflies and use the Morgan Hand Mill, I can't hold a fly rod and at themoment my therapist is working towards that goal. The router fell out ofthe router table onto my right hand and "stuff" flew all over the place.STUPID!However, since I am retiring this summer but am keeping my lab space attheUniversity for the next 3-4 years, I will now be able to do the funresearch stuff I couldn't do before due to "publish/perish" pressure. Iwould surely love to do the bamboo anatomy as previously mentioned.Wouldn't it be great to either support/shake the concepts of bamboo rodbuilding thoughts on anatomy? I say this not out of malice, but in a mostpositive way of providing some scientific anatomical evidence. I suspectthat some things will turn out to be accurate, some may require rethinkingon our part.Does any of this make sense?My best to you both Jerry Snider At 12:10 AM 01/07/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is theeffectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement thissummer isto do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundleintertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigiousnumbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water andfoodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they formfiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culmtothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 13:14:29 2001 f06JESI29295 2001 11:14:28 PST Subject: RE: Taper Advice i made the 7'victory. and used a standard ferrule atthe suggestion of someone at rec. the peak to peakdiam is about the diam of the male end of a standardferrule. the idea was that i would not be taking offany bamboo to mount a ferrule. it worked well andlooks fine. i can't rally tell any diff from the stepdown ferrule. next i plan to build using the averagingmethod and see how it works out. timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on theaction of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather thanchange the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of martySent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rodsthat where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly differentdimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the sameweight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved bysimply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding themand deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a"super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficultthan getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmlybelieve thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduceanother rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many othervariables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added manythousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and youdo, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours,suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do thebest you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather thanjudge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod andam looking weight. Therod will be should be ableto handle somewind. I am thinking about making a PhillipsonPeerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried aboutthe largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confidentenough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferruledrop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be veryproblematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I wouldvery muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Jan 6 13:27:12 2001 f06JRBI29581 Subject: [Fwd: Classic Bamboo Rodmakers Past & Present] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 48CEB51F6DD51335818A8A01 --------------48CEB51F6DD51335818A8A01 Subject: Classic Bamboo Rodmakers Past & Present I recollect a recent posting trying to find a copy of the abovepublication!Behold........www.anglebooks.com No commercial interest etc .........Paul --------------48CEB51F6DD51335818A8A01-- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Jan 6 13:40:27 2001 f06JeQI29874 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Milling Machine Hey!! Maybe all of us who are interested in building a milling machineshould send TA (hexagon@odyssee.net) an email every time he comes on the list. Thatway, he will be kept busy insulting everyone who is trying to come upwith a milling machine and he won't have any of his precious time towaste stirring up his normal crap on the list. I've been through 3 or 4of his "visits" to the list and have seen about enough. I don'tcontribute to the list that often, but gain a lot of valuable knowledge from the list (I just wish I could use it in a more timely fashion). cadams46@juno.com wrote: With all this talk of various machinery and people building them hasgotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machinesare?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at buildingamachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the onlybooksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine or beveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://member.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Jan 6 14:04:15 2001 f06K4EI00405 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:04:13 +0100 Subject: Sv: content of messages f06K4FI00406 Ron Here I was, thinking that at least one person had finally recognized mygenius,but no, it was not to be:-) Otherwise You are spot on. The archives contains so many questions andanswers that it baffles the mind (doesn't take much to baffle mine) Therearehundreds of ways to make a rod, if one combines the collective experiencesof the makers who have contributed to this list during its existence. This prompts me to express my gratitude towards Mike "The List Guy" Biondo Please do remember that without this list, the knowledge now freelyaccessiblewould not be there for all of us to share. No amount of books or videos aboutthe subject could ever hope to a cirkulation as wide as the List. regards, Carsten I use the word brilliant in a collective since like one would in a braintrust. Many individualseach accomplished pulling together to reach one common goal.Ron from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jan 6 14:19:04 2001 f06KJ3I00840 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Taper Advice Hi Richard, You may be right but I find it hard to believe. There isvery little if any flexing going on at the ferrule. At least not enoughto notice. I do agree that a step down ferrule is an option but somemakers already have the Super Z style. Best, Marty A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on the action of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather than change the taper toavoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking rod will be to handle somewind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from thogan@rochester.rr.com Sat Jan 6 15:32:11 2001 f06LWAI01688 Subject: Orvis Flex Index Does anyone know how to calculate the Orvis Flex Index? I have seen a fewarticles on the web but they seem contradictory. from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Jan 6 15:50:37 2001 f06LoaI02042 (63.228.44.46) " " Subject: Re: Taper Advice dumb question maybe! Do you think splitting the difference with the ferruleis changing the taper?Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Taper Advice A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on the action of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather than change the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking rod will be to handle somewind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Jan 6 15:53:21 2001 f06LrKI02237 (63.228.44.46) " rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Taper Advice What do you use to glue the ferrule and fiil the gaps?Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Taper Advice i made the 7'victory. and used a standard ferrule atthe suggestion of someone at rec. the peak to peakdiam is about the diam of the male end of a standardferrule. the idea was that i would not be taking offany bamboo to mount a ferrule. it worked well andlooks fine. i can't rally tell any diff from the stepdown ferrule. next i plan to build using the averagingmethod and see how it works out. timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on theaction of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather thanchange the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of martySent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rodsthat where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly differentdimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the sameweight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved bysimply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding themand deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a"super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficultthan getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmlybelieve thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduceanother rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many othervariables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added manythousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and youdo, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours,suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do thebest you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather thanjudge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod andam looking weight. Therod will be should be ableto handle somewind. I am thinking about making a PhillipsonPeerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried aboutthe largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confidentenough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferruledrop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be veryproblematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I wouldvery muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 6 17:12:12 2001 f06NCBI03345 Subject: Re: Taper Advice Can I put in my vote for the Payne 98? I just LOVE that taper. Who was it at Grayrock 00 who wisely commented "I never met a 98 I didn't like"... Rob Hoffhines from tfbinn@mindspring.com Sat Jan 6 17:24:00 2001 f06NO0I03635 Subject: Re: Saw Design The Sept/Oct issue of "The Planing Form" has a drawing and detailedexplanation of a jig designed by JW Rods (Jerry Wall) that allows a band sawto be used to saw strips. The jig is very simple but ingenious. Mr. Wall wasgenerous allowing TPF to publish his idea. If you don't subscribe to TPFthis may be an ideal reason to do so.Winston Binney from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 6 17:26:48 2001 f06NQkI03828 Subject: A new Hoffhines! grose1@mediaone.net, dmoore@gustavus.edu, JB4sax@aol.com,MiTiernan@aol.com,hornwoman@hotmail.com, marquita@icns.com, b_squared@netzero.net,Garthsim@rcnchicago.net, allstarchiq15@yahoo.com,katzeyes@bellsouth.net,gmrogge@juno.com, Buster@pcc.net, jontuba@hotmail.com,eulenspgl@bigfoot.com, mathisdermaler@compuserve.com,Gary_Viebranz@yahoo.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,Piscator@crosswinds.net, rlow@obermeyer.com, mal@shol.com,jhtling@stargate.net Dear all,Megan Linnea Hoffhines was born Jan 5th at 1:12 AM. 8 pounds 5oz, 21inches (a nice trout!) Wendy and Megan are doing fine after a 17 hr labor.We'll have pics soon!! Thank you for your thoughts and prayers, Rob from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 17:27:03 2001 f06NR2I03885 2001 15:26:59 PST Subject: Re: Taper Advice dave, what i did was:i roughed the surface of the bamboo. i don't think 220is coarse enough. i spiraled a heavier thread over thepart that went on to the ferrule. i always soak myferrules in alcohol over night or a couple of hoursany way and clean them good and scower the inside ofthe ferrule well. i have a small triangle file with abroken tip and i scrower a spiral groove down theinside of the ferrule and clean it out again. i usethe 2 ton duro epoxy. when it came time to actuallydo it, i had to do it so this is what i did. there hasbeen no problem. the rod has been fished. i know thisis contrary to some of the discussion about epoxy andsnug fit but this is what i tried. so far it is fine. the cane did fit snug in the ferrule i had to take offthe peaks abit. it wasn't wobbly any way. someone atthe time was telling to use bamboo splines. it didn'tsound right to me at the time. now i might glue somebamboo to the end and turn it down for a more typicalfit. oh well! timothyp.s. if it comes apart i promise to fess up on thelist. tjt --- Dave Norling wrote:What do you use to glue the ferrule and fiil thegaps?Dave-----Original Message-----From: timothy troester ; rod 'akers Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001 1:15 PMSubject: RE: Taper Advice i made the 7'victory. and used a standard ferruleatthe suggestion of someone at rec. the peak to peakdiam is about the diam of the male end of astandardferrule. the idea was that i would not be takingoffany bamboo to mount a ferrule. it worked well andlooks fine. i can't rally tell any diff from thestepdown ferrule. next i plan to build using theaveragingmethod and see how it works out. timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:A step down at the ferrule has a real affect ontheaction of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather thanchange the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step downferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BehalfOf martySent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rodsthat where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirlydifferentdimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast thesameweight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solvedbysimply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions addingthemand deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can usea"super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no moredifficultthan getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmlybelieve thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduceanother rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many othervariables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that addedmanythousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't andyoudo, what if his heattreating regimen was much different fromyours,suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. dothebest you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, ratherthanjudge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rodandam looking 5weight. Therod will be should be ableto handle somewind. I am thinking about making aPhillipsonPeerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worriedaboutthe largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confidentenough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferruledrop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be veryproblematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I wouldvery muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 17:28:34 2001 f06NSXI04159 2001 15:28:30 PST Subject: Re: Taper Advice i don't think i've heard of anyone who didn't like the98. timothy --- Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote:Can I put in my vote for the Payne 98? I just LOVEthat taper. Who was it at Grayrock 00 who wisely commented "I never met a 98 Ididn't like"... Rob Hoffhines ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 17:33:38 2001 f06NXbI04497 2001 15:33:32 PST Subject: Re: Mass lack of appeal Don't know what's normal, tony, i don't know what normal is anymore. i use tothink i did. i don't think building bamboo rods wouldbe considered normal by the normal people. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 18:59:33 2001 f070xWI05418 2001 16:59:28 PST Subject: Re: Taper Advice hi danny, i thot i just posted it last nite. as i lookthrough emails i don't see it. i'll do it againtonite. timothy --- Danny Twang wrote:Timothy, How come I haven't seen the taper posted? Pleaseshear it with me.... danny From: timothy troester Subject: Re: Taper Advice i don't think i've heard of anyone who didn't likethe98. timothy --- Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote:Can I put in my vote for the Payne 98? I justLOVEthat taper. Who was it atGrayrock 00 who wisely commented "I never met a98 Ididn't like"... Rob Hoffhines ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ .://photos.yahoo.com/ . ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jan 6 19:24:31 2001 f071OVI06010 Subject: Fwd: Kirsten --part1_12.71c6245.27891f45_boundary List,Some have asked if there is any kind of trust fund set up for Kirsten Gould so I asked Ray. This is what he sent me for all who are interested. I want to thank all who have responded to these posts for Kirsten and the rest of the Gould family. I know it has meant the world to them.Bret --part1_12.71c6245.27891f45_boundary 0500 Subject: Re: Kirsten Organization: GOULD Hi Bret,You are so unusually thoughtful and kind about this whole thing with mygranddaughter Bret and I'll never be able to thank you enough! Yes there isa fund set up and it is actually an endowment which means that the principalstays intact and they work off the interest earnings. Checks should be made Research Endowment.The mailing address is :Children's Hospital Foundation4800 Sand Point Way N.E.Mail Stop CL-04Seattle, WA 98105 As an update to all: We met last night with the physician and received somegreat news. The first two chemo treatments have reduced the tumorsubstantially and the leg of the tumor that had invaded the skull and waspressing against the brain is now gone. The bone scans also show thatsecondary sites are receding and some are gone. Thus is terrific news andhas the doctors excited as well. The path ahead calls for 11 more chemotreatments between now and July and then possibly some focused radiationtokill the last few tumor cells. We remain hopeful and are tremendouslyencouraged by the wonderful thoughts and prayers of so many folks.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Kirsten Ray,I have given the guys the information on addresses and I am sure that bynowKirsten has received some e-mails. I have had an inquiry to the effect ifthere is any kind of fund set up to help the family with expenses. I knowintimes like this that the medical expenses can be overwhelming and anymoneysare a help no matter how small. Can you please give me any information tothis regard or tell me if there is anything else we can do.Bret --part1_12.71c6245.27891f45_boundary-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 20:17:01 2001 f072GsI06624 2001 18:16:54 PST Subject: payne 98 7' 5wt 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Jan 6 23:24:02 2001 f075O0I08370 "Danny Twang" Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Its measurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barch told me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspect that Payne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has tried my variation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 23:40:29 2001 f075eRI08677 2001 21:40:20 PST Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt "rod 'akers" that is true. this is the taper i am most familiarwith. i have 2 others. i think theyre all good. timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Itsmeasurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barchtold me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspect thatPayne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has tried myvariation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester Twang Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 00:13:39 2001 f076DcI09272 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:13:32 -0800 Sun, 07 Jan 2001 06:13:32 GMT Subject: Re: Saw Design FILETIME=[F6445EC0:01C07870] From: "Scott W. Grady" Subject: Saw DesignDate: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:26:11 -0600 With the recent discussion of sawing verse splitting, I was wondering ifany out there have a simple jig setup for cutting cane. I would like totry a comparison with sections from sawn and split methods and see formyself the differences.Any help would be appreciated.Scott There is one aspect of the saw/split question to touch on. Many of the 'heralded' cane makers used a saw on the cane but they would often sort out 80% of the cane to find the culms that were quite straight already. I don't know about the rest of you but putting that much of my cane on the burn pile would probably precipitate tears. I don't believe in wasting time on something unless there is a reason for it but splitting and straightening is something I have resignes myself to to achieve the quality I am looking for.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from jkcerise@rof.net Sun Jan 7 01:16:14 2001 f077G9I10245 Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! At 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard isinsulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards! I went to a fly-fishingshow in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual"stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. Alas, who is there infull force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself! Even had the kid with theentourage! I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insult rods)I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show. I have five year oldgrandson who could do a better job! No Shit, guys -n- gals! This guyturns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters! Missed finishingseveral spots of the windings on every rod!! NO winding check and theforward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dull axeand then run over a few times. He told me he didn't put checks on to savecosts!!!! I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I canabout the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and Iguarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave myshop! Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed ascraftsmanship. What a joke!If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahooproducinganything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!! Iventure that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now 10,000flyfishers know what his crap looks like! I did not even bother to castone of them, wouldn't waste my time!!! (And I'm Cheap!!!, just ask all theladies!!) I'm not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out there alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways! Says he's averaging two a day, most ever @ five! My opinion is that hehas an average of NO rods/day! This guy has not built one to date if hislife's work is like what I saw today. I literally chuckled for four hoursas I walked the show floor! This guy wouldn't make a pimple on arodbuilder's butt! As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie, there is nosuch thing!! What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination, arod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang thatdoesn't come back? A stick! Still laughing, (and crying a bit too for all the concern over this yahoo'swork!) John from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jan 7 04:49:35 2001 f07AnPI11890 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Hi John, A winding check at the front of the grip in no way signifies awell made rod. I seldom use a winding check or a hookkeeper not to savecosts but because both add weight (albeit small)and serve no purpose.I have heard that the greatest rodmaker Jim Payne never spoke ill ofanother makers work although I can see he had it coming. Lets try to refrain from it. MartyAt 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard isinsulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards! I went to a fly-fishingshow in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual"stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. Alas, who is there infull force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself! Even had the kid with theentourage! I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insult rods)I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show. I have five year oldgrandson who could do a better job! No Shit, guys -n- gals! This guyturns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters! Missed finishingseveral spots of the windings on every rod!! NO winding check and theforward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dull axeand then run over a few times. He told me he didn't put checks on to savecosts!!!! I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I canabout the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and Iguarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave myshop! Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed ascraftsmanship. What a joke!If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahooproducinganything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!! Iventure that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now10,000flyfishers know what his crap looks like! I did not even bother to castone of them, wouldn't waste my time!!! (And I'm Cheap!!!, just ask all theladies!!) I'm not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out there alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways!Says he's averaging two a day, most ever @ five! My opinion is thathehas an average of NO rods/day! This guy has not built one to date if hislife's work is like what I saw today. I literally chuckled for four hoursas I walked the show floor! This guy wouldn't make a pimple on arodbuilder's butt! As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie, there is nosuch thing!! What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination, arod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang thatdoesn't come back? A stick! Still laughing, (and crying a bit too for all the concern over this yahoo'swork!) John from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sun Jan 7 08:52:11 2001 f07Eq6I13749 Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt Hi, These look like the measurements from George Maurer's book. Any chanceyoucould post yours, Ted? David I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Its measurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barch told me that he has seen4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspect that Payne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has tried my variation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .0665 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jan 7 08:58:45 2001 f07EwiI13993 Subject: Book Wanted I am looking to find and purchase a copy of "The Anglers Workshop", and alsoa copy of George Barnes book, anyone having an extra copy of either oftheseplease contact me off list at jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thanks Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker from dutcher@email.msn.com Sun Jan 7 10:02:47 2001 f07G2kI15052 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:02:05 -0800 Subject: My Apologies ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Power Wrapper & Varnish Dear Dick,I have your address. I have your number of fingers, toes, I know what youeat for breakfast, I know how often you have sex, at home and otherwise!Iknow too much about you. Don't send me your profile again. I have itsaved on my hard drive 7 times now. What you are doing is in extrremelybad form!! Just between us, DICK, you are becoming a pain in the ass!Stop sending this crap every time you respond to the list! Have a littlerespect for your fellow listers, man!!! Go ask the asshole who sold youthat damned computer in the first place how to shut that shit off! We donot want it once, let alone 7 times. See the form letter below and takeheed of it!@!!!!!! Dear John, May I offer my sincerest apologies for upsetting you in this way. It wasnot my intention to bring discomfort to anyone on the list with my callousmisuse of a business card attachment. Without pause, I have turned off thefunction that has caused you no end of aggravation. I can only hope and praythat this will not have a long lasting effect on you. John, I do not know what type of mail platform you use but, perhaps ithas a "block sender" function. It might prove to be a real benefit to you inthe future. Mine has been very useful to me. It is rather pleasing to watchthose obnoxious e-mails go straight to the delete folder. Just one other thing I would like to mention John, and I say this withall due respect a candor. Sometimes the correct combination ofpsychotropicmedication is difficult to achieve and from time to time needs to bereevaluated by a physician. May you have brighter days and tight lines. Best regards,Dick from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 10:15:25 2001 f07GFOI15318 2001 08:15:24 PST Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt david i have a 4wt taper i got from reed curry and ataper for a stepdown ferrule. timothy --- parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:What other tapers do you have for the 98? David Parker On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, timothy troester wrote: that is true. this is the taper i am most familiarwith. i have 2 others. i think theyre all good. timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Itsmeasurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barchtold me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspectthatPayne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has triedmyvariation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester DannyTwang Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photosonline!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 10:28:07 2001 f07GS6I15719 Subject: Re: My Apologies There is absolutely no need to apologize. The .VCF is a very useful featureand I use it all the time. Most mail readers support it or will be. The onlyreason this message doesn't have it is because it's a new PC and I haven'thad time to set things up the way I want them (or build rods or fish, etc). Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: My Apologies ----- Original Message -----From: "John Cerise" Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:44 PMSubject: Re: Power Wrapper & Varnish Dear Dick,I have your address. I have your number of fingers, toes, I know whatyoueat for breakfast, I know how often you have sex, at home andotherwise!Iknow too much about you. Don't send me your profile again. I have itsaved on my hard drive 7 times now. What you are doing is in extrremelybad form!! Just between us, DICK, you are becoming a pain in the ass!Stop sending this crap every time you respond to the list! Have alittlerespect for your fellow listers, man!!! Go ask the asshole who sold youthat damned computer in the first place how to shut that shit off! Wedonot want it once, let alone 7 times. See the form letter below and takeheed of it!@!!!!!! Dear John, May I offer my sincerest apologies for upsetting you in this way. Itwasnot my intention to bring discomfort to anyone on the list with my callousmisuse of a business card attachment. Without pause, I have turned offthefunction that has caused you no end of aggravation. I can only hope andpraythat this will not have a long lasting effect on you. John, I do not know what type of mail platform you use but, perhaps ithas a "block sender" function. It might prove to be a real benefit to youinthe future. Mine has been very useful to me. It is rather pleasing towatchthose obnoxious e-mails go straight to the delete folder. Just one other thing I would like to mention John, and I say this withall due respect a candor. Sometimes the correct combination ofpsychotropicmedication is difficult to achieve and from time to time needs to bereevaluated by a physician. May you have brighter days and tight lines. Best regards,Dick from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 10:52:51 2001 f07GqoI16420 2001 08:52:50 PST Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt "rod 'akers" tony, i need to look for them. i'll do today ortomorrow. timothy --- Tony Spezio wrote:Timothy,Can you post the other tapers.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com timothy troester wrote: that is true. this is the taper i am most familiarwith. i have 2 others. i think theyre all good.timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Itsmeasurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barchtold me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspectthatPayne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has triedmyvariation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester DannyTwang Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .0665 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photosonline!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Jan 7 11:23:48 2001 f07HNkI16892 (63.228.44.106) Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Hi John, A winding check at the front of the grip in no way signifies awell made rod. I seldom use a winding check or a hookkeeper not to savecosts but because both add weight (albeit small)and serve no purpose.I have heard that the greatest rodmaker Jim Payne never spoke ill ofanother makers work although I can see he had it coming. Lets try to refrain from it. MartyAt 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard isinsulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards! I went to a fly-fishingshow in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual"stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. Alas, who is there infull force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself! Even had the kid with theentourage! I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insultrods)I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show. I have five year oldgrandson who could do a better job! No Shit, guys -n- gals! This guyturns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters! Missedfinishingseveral spots of the windings on every rod!! NO winding check and theforward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dullaxeand then run over a few times. He told me he didn't put checks on to savecosts!!!! I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I canabout the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and Iguarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave myshop! Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed ascraftsmanship. What a joke!If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahooproducinganything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!!Iventure that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now10,000flyfishers know what his crap looks like! I did not even bother to castone of them, wouldn't waste my time!!! (And I'm Cheap!!!, just ask alltheladies!!) I'm not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out therealooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways!Says he's averaging two a day, most ever @ five! My opinion isthat hehas an average of NO rods/day! This guy has not built one to date if hislife's work is like what I saw today. I literally chuckled for fourhoursas I walked the show floor! This guy wouldn't make a pimple on arodbuilder's butt! As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie,there is nosuch thing!! What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination,arod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang thatdoesn't come back? A stick! Still laughing, (and crying a bit too for all the concern over thisyahoo'swork!) John from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 11:47:41 2001 f07HleI17426 Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! What is the most interesting is what is NOT in the review. I've seen acouple of the earlier versions of the Bastard rods and read several reviewson others. There were some serious flaws in the early rods and none ofthosewere mentioned. Had they been there I suspect Mr. Cerise would have pointedthem out. So it sounds like George is making progress. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message-----[snip] from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 7 12:17:13 2001 f07IHDI17985 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:17:12 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Paul Looks are not everything in a rod - One of the best rods I've evercast was the ugliest rod I ever cast. I've also have also had manycosmeticallygood rods that just cast just terrible. So you cannot judge a rod by its looksalone.It may be cosmetics that sell a rod but it is function that makes you keep it.A fishwill not judge the cosmetics of the rod you are fishing - only your fellowfishermen.The fish will judge how well you can present the fly with it. Chris On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:47:47 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote: What is the most interesting is what is NOT in the review. I've seen acouple of the earlier versions of the Bastard rods and read several reviewson others. There were some serious flaws in the early rods and none ofthosewere mentioned. Had they been there I suspect Mr. Cerise would havepointedthem out. So it sounds like George is making progress. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:37 PMSubject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message-----[snip] from martinj@aa.net Sun Jan 7 12:56:11 2001 f07IuAI18529 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:56:05 -0800 Subject: RE: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! If you send one, don't include my name. Your post was one of the rudestposts I have ever seen on this list. You have "moved to the head of thepac". Don't bother replying. I have added your e-mail to my Junk sendersfilter. It will go straight to the deleted items folder. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! At 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 13:32:33 2001 f07JWWI19202 Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Chris, I realize that, The early bastards had some serious problems. I saw one thatwas as straight as a cork screw and the ferrule spun freely when mated. Ifhe's getting them straight and mating ferrules properly then he's makingprogress. Get the cosmetics taken care of and he has a shot at selling morethan just a few. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Paul Looks are not everything in a rod - One of the best rods I've evercast was the ugliest rod I ever cast. I've also have also had manycosmeticallygood rods that just cast just terrible. So you cannot judge a rod by itslooks alone.It may be cosmetics that sell a rod but it is function that makes you keepit. A fishwill not judge the cosmetics of the rod you are fishing - only your fellowfishermen.The fish will judge how well you can present the fly with it. Chris On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:47:47 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote: What is the most interesting is what is NOT in the review. I've seen acouple of the earlier versions of the Bastard rods and read severalreviewson others. There were some serious flaws in the early rods and none ofthosewere mentioned. Had they been there I suspect Mr. Cerise would havepointedthem out. So it sounds like George is making progress. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:37 PMSubject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message-----[snip] from H2ODOC781@aol.com Sun Jan 7 13:38:15 2001 f07JcEI19441 Subject: the cure --part1_62.ac5d58b.278a1f9b_boundary The rumor is that the long awaited bamboo came into port on 1/3/01 through customs about 1/10 and then on to UT to me for my first everattempt= at this inspiring gig. =A0 long do I need to allow the bamboo to cure, age, dry? =A0When will I know th= time is right? =A0Bottom line is how long do I have to wait before I can sta= splitting? the side "threads" here. =A0 Ben JarvisHyde Park UT foggy and 5 degrees this morning =A0perhaps should be nymph fishing =A0warmer in the mountains than here in the valley --part1_62.ac5d58b.278a1f9b_boundary The rumor is that the long awaited bamboo came into port on 1/3/01going=through customs about 1/10 and then on to UT to me for my firstever at=tempt at this inspiring gig. =A0 how long do I need to allow the bamboo to cure, age, dry? =A0When willI=know the time is right? =A0Bottom line is how long do I have to waitbe=fore I can start splitting? I am looking forward to great things on this list if I can wade all the side "threads" here. =A0 Ben JarvisHyde Park UT foggy and 5 degrees this morning =A0perhaps should be nymph fishingtoda=y! =A0warmer in the mountains than here in the valley --part1_62.ac5d58b.278a1f9b_boundary-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 7 14:23:14 2001 f07KNDI20016 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:23:12 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Paul I agree - some of the early rods - the ferrules fell off, etc. Gettingthe construction down is an improvement. Cosmetics are in the eye of thebeholder. But in the end, does his rods cast well? It is easy to criticize, butdamn difficult to build a good rod. Whatever he does in the way of publicitywill help everyone. The same way Scott and Winston featuring cane rodsin their catalogs help. Then it comes down to the customer - what does hewant and what is he willing to pay for it. Thinking back, have you everseen some of the original Nike running shoes whose soles were done witha waffle iron - ugly - now look at them! Sooo you may not like him, but yougot to give him credit for persistence. Chris On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:32:35 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote: Chris, I realize that, The early bastards had some serious problems. I saw one thatwas as straight as a cork screw and the ferrule spun freely when mated. Ifhe's getting them straight and mating ferrules properly then he's makingprogress. Get the cosmetics taken care of and he has a shot at sellingmorethan just a few. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Bogart" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:16 PMSubject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Paul Looks are not everything in a rod - One of the best rods I've evercast was the ugliest rod I ever cast. I've also have also had manycosmeticallygood rods that just cast just terrible. So you cannot judge a rod by itslooks alone.It may be cosmetics that sell a rod but it is function that makes you keepit. A fishwill not judge the cosmetics of the rod you are fishing - only your fellowfishermen.The fish will judge how well you can present the fly with it. Chris On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:47:47 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote: What is the most interesting is what is NOT in the review. I've seen acouple of the earlier versions of the Bastard rods and read severalreviewson others. There were some serious flaws in the early rods and none ofthosewere mentioned. Had they been there I suspect Mr. Cerise would havepointedthem out. So it sounds like George is making progress. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:37 PMSubject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message-----[snip] from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 7 14:29:41 2001 f07KTeI20262 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:29:39 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: the cure --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_ Ben The answer is depends. It depends on the temp and conditions you storethe bamboo in. If you put it in a warm loft of a heated building you probablycan useit in a short while - outside in a barn at 5 degrees - much longer. Whereveryou storeit make sure it is a dry place. The good rule of thumb is you put a drying split in it and the culm will close up on the split. When the split has has opened wide it is ready to use. I will point out that some people will grab a culm right away, heat treatit and build a rod - nothing stoping you from doing that if you lack patience. Chris --Original Message Text--- The rumor is that the long awaited bamboo came into port on 1/3/01 going through customs about 1/10 and then on to UT to me for my first everattempt at this inspiring gig. My question today is.........after I put the curing split in the culms, how long do I need to allow the bamboo to cure, age, dry? When will I know the time is right? Bottom line is how long do I have to wait before I can start splitting? I am looking forward to great things on this list if I can wade through all the side "threads" here. Ben Jarvis Hyde Park UT foggy and 5 degrees this morning perhaps should be nymph fishing today! warmer in the mountains than here in the valley --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_ Ben The answer is depends. It depends on the temp and conditions youstorethe bamboo in. If you put it in a warm loft of a heated building you probablycan useit in a short while - outside in a barn at 5 degrees - much longer. Whereveryou storeit make sure it is a dry place. The good rule of thumb is you put a drying split in it and the culm will close up on the split. When the split has has opened wide it is ready touse. I will point out that some people will grab a culm right away, heattreatit and build a rod - nothing stoping you from doing that if you lackpatience. Chris --Original Message Text---From: H2ODOC781@aol.comDate: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:38:03 EST The rumor is that the long awaited bamboo came into port on 1/3/01 going through customs about 1/10 and then on to UT to me for my first everattempt at this inspiring gig. My question today is.........after I put the curing split in the culms, how long do I need to allow the bamboo to cure, age, dry? When will I know the time is right? Bottom line is how long do I have to wait before I can start splitting? I am looking forward to great things on this list if I can wade through all the side "threads" here. Ben Jarvis Hyde Park UT foggy and 5 degrees this morning perhaps should be nymph fishing today! warmer in the mountains than here in the valley --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_-- from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sun Jan 7 14:30:17 2001 f07KUFI20364 ;Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:30:10 +0000 Subject: Re: the cure Ben, You could wait a day, a year, ten years, forty years, whatever, untilyour bamboo is "cured". If it's your first-ever batch of cane, I'd saydive right in and start splitting. That's what I did a little over twoand a half years ago when I started. I check split all of my bamboo andthen started gathering and making the tools and gadgets that I needed tomake my first rod. That took about four or six months. My first batch is all gone now and I'm working with some cane that Ibought about a year ago. It has dried very nicely in my bedroom rightnext to the baseboard (There's no SWMBO to disallow that practice ;-)). Good luck and welcome to the sickness! Dennis H2ODOC781@aol.com wrote: The rumor is that the long awaited bamboo came into port on 1/3/01goingthrough customs about 1/10 and then on to UT to me for my first everattemptat this inspiring gig. My question today is.........after I put the curing split in theculms, howlong do I need to allow the bamboo to cure, age, dry? When will Iknow thetime is right? Bottom line is how long do I have to wait before I canstartsplitting? I am looking forward to great things on this list if I can wadethrough allthe side "threads" here. Ben JarvisHyde Park UT foggy and 5 degrees this morning perhaps should be nymph fishingtoday!warmer in the mountains than here in the valley from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 7 15:05:43 2001 f07L5bI21000 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Craftex lathe Hi all,I have a question for those more knowledgeable in metal lathesthan I. I am looking at a Craftex mini metal lathe for ferrules,winding checks and seat hardware. It is a model B1979C 7 x 8 variablespeed and it is on sale here in Canada for $599, regularly $899. I thinkI may be able to work a bit more off the price as it has been on theshelf for at least 2 1/2 years and has been on and off sale often.I would love to hear your thoughts, especially those who own one.Is this a reasonable price? Is it good enough quality to do the work Iwant it to do or should I keep looking?? Is the mini size large enough (I don't have a lot of excess room for huge ones) . Am I going to haveto go buy lots of expensive accessories that I might get thrown in had Ibought a used one (The $149 cost of a 3 jaw chuck for my little woodlathe scared me!) ??Shawn from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Jan 7 15:07:10 2001 f07L79I21192 AB6B2BF4D Subject: Payne 98 In response to several inquiries I am listing the Payne 98 dimensions. Ihave probably made over 20 examples of this taper and as far as I knowevery one has been very happy with its performance. I regularly use my own(not the original, I sold it to pay for a week of fishing on the Bow Riverin Alberta!!) to fish the Grand River. I use a #4 line on it most of thetime, but sometimes use it with a #5 if I'm doing a lot of short linenymphing. Originally I mic'ed the Payne at 6" centres and subtracted .005" Long converted the dimensions into the 5" centres shown here. Station Dimension 0" .2855" .28510" .28515" .26420" .25525" .24330" .23035" .21340" .20042" .195 13/64 ferrule45" .18350" .17155" .16160" .15065" .13570" .11975" .10180" .08584" .o75 from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 7 15:44:46 2001 f07LigI21766 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:44:37 -0500 "rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Craftex lathe Shawn The one thing you will need for Ferrules will be collets in 1/64th increments from 10/64th to about 21/64ths to cover the common sized ferrules you will build. You need to couple that with a collet closer for your lathe - You need to price this and the availability - this is usually the big hidden cost on making ferrules.The only economy measure would find collets in 1/32 incrementsand build only even sized ferrules - sorry no Para 15 here. Chris On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 17:01:53 -0500, Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi all,I have a question for those more knowledgeable in metal lathesthan I. I am looking at a Craftex mini metal lathe for ferrules,winding checks and seat hardware. It is a model B1979C 7 x 8 variablespeed and it is on sale here in Canada for $599, regularly $899. I thinkI may be able to work a bit more off the price as it has been on theshelf for at least 2 1/2 years and has been on and off sale often.I would love to hear your thoughts, especially those who own one.Is this a reasonable price? Is it good enough quality to do the work Iwant it to do or should I keep looking?? Is the mini size large enough (I don't have a lot of excess room for huge ones) . Am I going to haveto go buy lots of expensive accessories that I might get thrown in had Ibought a used one (The $149 cost of a 3 jaw chuck for my little woodlathe scared me!) ??Shawn from timklein@uswest.net Sun Jan 7 16:00:03 2001 f07M03I22157 (63.225.241.114) Subject: Test This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0132_01C078BA.3ED0DEE0 Test ------=_NextPart_000_0132_01C078BA.3ED0DEE0 Test ------=_NextPart_000_0132_01C078BA.3ED0DEE0-- from timklein@qwest.net Sun Jan 7 17:02:05 2001 f07N24I23029 (63.225.242.205) Subject: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C078C2.E65E4460 Just returned from Denver's first flyfishing only show and I thought I'd =pass along a couple of experiences. First, I had the opportunity to meet Jon Parker at the show. I was more =than a little surprised to see a bamboo rodmaker there, but it was =certainly a pleasant surprise! Considering the hoards of people around =his booth, it was very kind of Jon to spend a few minutes talking to me. =I've only had the opportunity to meet a few makers in person, but I am =constantly impressed by how friendly and helpful they always turn out to = Jon's rods are simply beautiful. I had the opportunity to cast one, and =needless to say, it was superb. Being the casting hack I am though, I =listened to the comments of a couple of other gentlemen who were casting =the same rod for an expert opinion. The older of the two had a =beautifully smooth casting style and he was notably impressed with the =accuracy of the casts he was getting. His exact comment was "...there =isn't a graphite rod made that will deliver a fly as accurately and =softly as one of these." I'll take him at his word. Jon's booth was a wonderful example of how a setup can generate business =while at the same time educate the flyfishing public. The booth had =several "exhibits" that nicely, and simply, explain the process of =making a bamboo fly rod. In addition to a section of culm at various =stages of the splitting process, there was a display of a rod section =where the bottom half of the section is glued and the strips are fanned =out and pinned separately at the top. Listening to some of the comments = from attendees was fascinating. I was surprised by the number of people =who seemed to have never actually seen a bamboo fly rod or who had seen =them but didn't realize that a section is made up of six separate =strips. Examining the fine tip of Jon's rods and realizing that it was =made up of six strips evoked more than one comment along the lines of ="No wonder these things are so damn expensive!". If the crowd around Jon's booth is any indication, bamboo is still the =epitome of the sport. People at these shows always tend to gather around =the high end equipment with a covetous look in their eye. Jon's booth =had a pretty fair share of those people. Interestingly, it was an older =crowd than in places like the Sage booth. I can't help but wonder =whether younger fly fishermen simply consider bamboo an old fashioned =oddity, an extravagance out of their price reach, or just don't really =consider it at all! I also caught Mike Clark roaming around the hall, though he didn't have =a booth at the show. Not that he really needs one considering his 2 or 3 = I met one other interesting bamboo rodmaker at the show as well - George =Gehrke himself! He had several completed rods in the booth, and while it's certainly =possible (likely?) that they are the best examples he has put out, they =weren't nearly as bad as I'd been lead to believe. The process that =George described (I'm doing this from memory, so I may not have this =exactly right) called for an initial tung oil coat on the blank, =followed by four coats of varnish. The wraps are applied at this point, =varnished, then epoxied (like the guides on a graphite rod). That's =followed with another coat (or possibly two) of varnish. The claim was =six coats of varnish total. This surprised me a little, because my first =thought upon seeing the rod was that the varnish seemed pretty thin. It =also didn't have the glass smooth finish that I like to see on a rod. =I'm not a big fan of the style of flaming that his rods have, but I've =seen it on rods from other makers too, so I can't really knock it. The =dark areas look kind of "spotty" rather than a smooth transition between =lighter areas and darker areas of the rod. The components were pretty =high quality and the sections were straight. I noticed some strips that =weren't very clear (waterpsots, etc.), but I didn't see any flaws that =looked to be more than cosmetic (no worm holes or anything). As George =himself has already stated, there were visible glue lines on the rods. =None looked so bad that I'd consider the strength of the rod suspect, =but it's certainly not as visually appealing as a section without glue =lines. I can't comment on the casting ability of the rods, since I didn't make =it back around to his booth to actually cast one myself. I did see the =Ginkster himself casting one though. Despite his claim to me in the =booth that he had emptied his spool casting one of the rods, he seemed =to be piling up a wad of line pretty frequently. In general, the rod =just looked like it was a little too "whippy" to cast long distances, =but it seemed to present OK at shorter distances. Frankly, I'm a little =ticked off at myself that I didn't get back to cast the thing like I =promised George I'd do. Overall, the rods were a little gaudy for my taste and I think they're =overpriced. If he was making these same rods, putting them in a nice rod =sock and simple aluminum tube, and charging the $300.00 he originally =claimed was possible, I think he might actually have something(assuming =the production quality was the same as the rods at the show). Hard-core =bamboo guys won't want one of George's rods, but I happen to believe =that there are a lot of fly fishermen out there who don't get out =fishing all that often, and are really fly fishing equipment =accumulators. I think some of them would probably buy a reasonably =priced bamboo rod, and that they'd probably not care much about how the =rod performs since they're only out a couple times a year. If I thought =the guy would take my advice, I'd suggest George back off a little on =the reelseat (maybe a simple black anodized aluminum) and drop the price =to $300.00 to $350.00 if possible. I think at this price point, he might =have a winner. Are these the production rods we discuss so often here? In my opinion, =no. We seem to talk more about the classic rods that were considered =very high quality in their day. George's rods seem to me to be more =along the lines of the lower end rods that these same companies put out, =or the trade rods that most companies made for the sporting goods and =department stores. I liken it to the market for tennis rackets, golf =clubs and other sporting equipment. You can get really nice stuff from a =specialty store, but there are a hell of a lot of folks who are =perfectly happy with the stuff they get from Wal-Mart for 1/3 the cost. =At $350, George's rods would fall right in the "1/3 the cost" of what =the majority of rodmakers seem to charge. George himself? Well, he's a character and a half; the consummate =salesman. Everything he does is the best, and others are either inferior =or ripping you off. Having said that, I certainly liked the guy and =wouldn't hesitate to sit down for a beer or dip a line with the man. =He's still plugging along with this thing, and he seems intent on making =it work. Like him or not, you've got to admire the courage and =conviction of the guy for trying to do something that hasn't been done =in a long time. The show itself was a little disappointing. I primarily went for some =flytying demos, but the setup was horrible. The tiers were simply =sitting at a table, and people just gathered around. If you weren't one =of the first 10 or 12 people there, you were simply out of luck. There =was a video camera and monitors, but it was set up poorly and there was =no sound system to allow you to hear the commentary. The setup at the =other large Denver outdoor shows is far superior. I was lucky enough to =get good demos on a few patterns from other tiers that were set up; In =particular, B.J. Lester and Charlie Craven. Charlie's flies impressed me =the most. He was demonstrating some classic patterns, but his ties were =absolutely spectacular; the cleanest, best tied flies I think I've ever =seen. Didn't really see a lot of new stuff, though there was one product that =I'm considering that might be of interest to other "minimalist" fly =fishermen. It's a small chest pack that allows the use of =interchangeable aluminum flyboxes as the main part of the platform. it =has a couple of coil retractors and a rod holder built in, and includes =a small pouch for money, license, etc.. All in all it seems likely a =nicely designed little setup, though I had a hard time telling whether =the booth was so crowded because of the product itself, or the busty =young woman who was wearing the thing to display it! It's called the =Flytedeck, and you can take a look at it at http://www.flytedeck.com/ . =Unfortunately, the site requires Shockwave Flash. The usual disclaimers =apply; no interest, yadda, yadda. As for the rest of the show, it was pretty standard stuff. Flyshops, =manufacturers, outfitters, etc.. While I really like the idea of a =flyfishing only show, I'm a little concerned about how it might impact =the flyfishing sections of the other large outdoor shows. Several =exhibitors told me that they only do one show a season and that this was =the one for this year. I guess time will tell whether we end up with a =really good flyfishing show, or whether the 3 big shows tend to =cannibalize one another. ---Tim ------=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C078C2.E65E4460 Just returned from Denver's first flyfishing only = First, I had the opportunity to meet Jon Parker at = there, but it was certainly a pleasant surprise! Considering the hoards = talking to me. I've only had the opportunity to meet a few makers in = Jon's rods are simply beautiful. I had the = one, and needless to say, it was superb. Being the casting hack I am = listened to the comments of a couple of other gentlemen who were casting = same rod for an expert opinion. The older of the two had a beautifully = casting style and he was notably impressed with the accuracy of the = getting. His exact comment was "...there isn't a graphite rod made that = deliver a fly as accurately and softly as one of these." I'll take him = word. = flyfishing public. The booth had several "exhibits" that nicely, and = explain the process of making a bamboo fly rod. In addition to a section = at various stages of the splitting process, there was a display of a rod = and pinned separately at the top. Listening to = comments from attendees was fascinating. I was surprised by the number = who seemed to have never actually seen a bamboo fly rod or who had seen = didn't realize that a section is made up of six separate = the fine tip of Jon's rods and realizing that it was made up of six = evoked more than one comment along the lines of "No wonder these things = damn expensive!". If the crowd around Jon's booth is any indication, = still the epitome of the sport. People at these shows always tend to = around the high end equipment with a covetous look in their eye. Jon's = a pretty fair share of those people. Interestingly, it was an older = in places like the Sage booth. I can't help but wonder whether younger = fishermen simply consider bamboo an old fashioned oddity, an = their price reach, or just don't really consider it at all! I also caught Mike Clark roaming around the hall, = at = as well - George Gehrke himself! He had several completed rods in the booth, and = certainly possible (likely?) that they are the best examples he has put = they weren't nearly as bad as I'd been lead to believe. The process that = described (I'm doing this from memory, so I may not have this exactly = called for an initial tung oil coat on the blank, followed by four coats = varnish. The wraps are applied at this point, varnished, then epoxied = guides on a graphite rod). That's followed with another coat (or = of varnish. The claim was six coats of varnish total. This surprised me = little, because my first thought upon seeing the rod was that the = to see on a rod. I'm not a big fan of the style of flaming that his rods = but I've seen it on rods from other makers too, so I can't really knock = dark areas look kind of "spotty" rather than a smooth transition between = weren't very clear (waterpsots, etc.), but I didn't see any flaws that = be more than cosmetic (no worm holes or anything). As George himself has = stated, there were visible glue lines on the rods. None looked so bad = consider the strength of the rod suspect, but it's certainly not as = appealing as a section without glue lines. I can't comment on the casting ability of the rods, = didn't make it back around to his booth to actually cast one = booth that he had emptied his spool casting one of the rods, he seemed = piling up a wad of line pretty frequently. In general, the rod just = it was a little too "whippy" to cast long distances, but it seemed to = at shorter distances. Frankly, I'm a little ticked off at myself that I = get back to cast the thing like I promised George I'd do. Overall, the rods were a little gaudy for my taste = nice rod sock and simple aluminum tube, and charging the $300.00 he = production quality was the same as the rods at the show). Hard-core = won't want one of George's rods, but I happen to believe that there are = fly fishermen out there who don't get out fishing all that often, = times a year. If I thought the guy would take my advice, I'd = back off a little on the reelseat (maybe a simple black anodized = point, he might have a winner. Are these the production rods we discuss so often = opinion, no. We seem to talk more about the classic rods that were = very high quality in their day. George's rods seem to me to be more = lines of the lower end rods that these same companies put out, or the = that most companies made for the sporting goods and department stores. I= it to the market for tennis rackets, golf clubs and other sporting = You can get really nice stuff from a specialty store, but there are a = lot of folks who are perfectly happy with the stuff they get from = 1/3 the cost. At $350, George's rods would fall right in the "1/3 the = what the majority of rodmakers seem to charge. George himself? Well, he's a character and a half; = consummate salesman. Everything he does is the best, and others are = inferior or ripping you off. Having said that, I certainly liked the guy = wouldn't hesitate to sit down for a beer or dip a line with the man. = plugging along with this thing, and he seems intent on making it work. = or not, you've got to admire the courage and conviction of the guy for = do something that hasn't been done in a long time. The show itself was a little disappointing. = went for some flytying demos, but the setup was horrible. The tiers were = sitting at a table, and people just gathered around. If you weren't one = first 10 or 12 people there, you were simply out of luck. There was a = camera and monitors, but it was set up poorly and there was no sound = allow you to hear the commentary. The setup at the other large Denver = shows is far superior. I was lucky enough to get good demos on a few = from other tiers that were set up; In particular, B.J. Lester and = = classic patterns, but his ties were absolutely spectacular; the = tied flies I think I've ever seen. Didn't really see a lot of new stuff, though there = product that I'm considering that might be of interest to other = fishermen. It's a small chest pack that allows the use of = aluminum flyboxes as the main part of the platform. it has a couple of = retractors and a rod holder built in, and includes a small pouch for = license, etc.. All in all it seems likely a nicely designed little = I had a hard time telling whether the booth was so crowded because of = product itself, or the busty young woman who was wearing the thing to = Unfortunately, the site requires Shockwave Flash. The usual disclaimers = no interest, yadda, yadda. As for the rest of the show, it was pretty standard = Flyshops, manufacturers, outfitters, etc.. While I really like the idea = flyfishing only show, I'm a little concerned about how it might impact = flyfishing sections of the other large outdoor shows. Several exhibitors = that they only do one show a season and that this was the one for this = guess time will tell whether we end up with a really good flyfishing = whether the 3 big shows tend to cannibalize one another. ---Tim ------=_NextPart_000_01F6_01C078C2.E65E4460-- from across@www.downandacross.com Sun Jan 7 17:29:17 2001 f07NTFI23521 Subject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) --=====================_34127917==_.ALT Once I figured out how to work that site, I was impressed. A neat product. I carry too much stuff when I get out. This would be a good lesson on taking only what you need.Thanks for sharing that. How come the youngwoman wasn't under accessories? (Maybe as some sort of floatation accessory?) Also, your analysis of George showed a lot of class. He is probably misunderstood.Best regards,Bob Didn't really see a lot of new stuff, though there was one product that I'm considering that might be of interest to other "minimalist" fly fishermen. It's a small chest pack that allows the use of interchangeable aluminum flyboxes as the main part of the platform. it has a couple of coil retractors and a rod holder built in, and includes a small pouch for money, license, etc.. All in all it seems likely a nicely designed little setup, though I had a hard time telling whether the booth was so crowded because of the product itself, or the busty young woman who was wearing the thing to display it! It's called the Flytedeck, and you can take a look at it at http://www.flytedeck.com/ . Unfortunately, the site requires Shockwave Flash. The usual disclaimers apply; no interest, yadda, yadda. --=====================_34127917==_.ALT Once I figured out how to work that site, I was impressed. A neatproduct. I carry too much stuff when I get out. This would be a goodlesson on taking only what you need.Thanks for sharing that. How come theyoung woman wasn't under accessories? (Maybe as some sort of floatationaccessory?) Also, your analysis of George showed a lot of class. He is probablymisunderstood.Best regards,Bob Didn't really see a lot of newstuff, though there was one product that I'm considering that might be ofinterest to other "minimalist" fly fishermen. It's a smallchest pack that allows the use of interchangeable aluminum flyboxes asthe main part of the platform. it has a couple of coil retractors and arod holder built in, and includes a small pouch for money, license, etc..All in all it seems likely a nicely designed little setup, though I had ahard time telling whether the booth was so crowded because of the productitself, or the busty young woman who was wearing the thing to display it!It's called the Flytedeck, and you can take a look at it athttp://www.flytedeck.com/ .Unfortunately, the site requires Shockwave Flash. The usual disclaimersapply; no interest, yadda, yadda. --=====================_34127917==_.ALT-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 7 17:31:42 2001 f07NVfI23758 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:31:36 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) --------------708FB5ED101E33AB89003AA3 Tim,I must say I'm rather disappointed with your little tale here andyou! You go to a show like that and don't take any pictures to sharewith the rest of us?? No, not of the rods, we can exchange those amongstourselves till the cows come home. No not of George, we can see that onhis web site. But to go and actually see young busty women modelingfishing gear and not bring back pictures to share, well that is justdisappointing! ;^)There's a thought for a new web site! Ahh I can see it nowwww.bustyflyfishers.com ,(not a real web site so don't even think oftrying it bucko!) perhaps this would be a good idea to send to the "ManShow" on the comedy network, they could have fly women jumping ontrampolines or something like that. They do that on their show so well!P.S. I'm only joking, hope you had a great time, I'm notjealous....much!Shawn "no fishing actionhere" Pineo Tim Klein wrote: Just returned from Denver's first flyfishing only show and I thoughtI'd pass along a couple of experiences. First, I had the opportunityto meet Jon Parker at the show. I was more than a little surprised tosee a bamboo rodmaker there, but it was certainly a pleasant surprise!Considering the hoards of people around his booth, it was very kind ofJon to spend a few minutes talking to me. I've only had theopportunity to meet a few makers in person, but I am constantlyimpressed by how friendly and helpful they always turn out tobe. Jon's rods are simply beautiful. I had the opportunity to castone, and needless to say, it was superb. Being the casting hack I amthough, I listened to the comments of a couple of other gentlemen whowere casting the same rod for an expert opinion. The older of the twohad a beautifully smooth casting style and he was notably impressedwith the accuracy of the casts he was getting. His exact comment was"...there isn't a graphite rod made that will deliver a fly asaccurately and softly as one of these." I'll take him at hisword. Jon's booth was a wonderful example of how a setup can generatebusiness while at the same time educate the flyfishing public. Thebooth had several "exhibits" that nicely, and simply, explain theprocess of making a bamboo fly rod. In addition to a section of culmat various stages of the splitting process, there was a display of arod section where the bottom half of the section is glued and thestrips are fanned out and pinned separately at the top. Listening tosome of the comments from attendees was fascinating. I was surprised bamboo fly rod or who had seen them but didn't realize that a sectionis made up of six separate strips. Examining the fine tip of Jon'srods and realizing that it was made up of six strips evoked more thanone comment along the lines of "No wonder these things are so damnexpensive!". If the crowd around Jon's booth is any indication, bamboois still the epitome of the sport. People at these shows always tendto gather around the high end equipment with a covetous look in theireye. Jon's booth had a pretty fair share of those people.Interestingly, it was an older crowd than in places like the Sagebooth. I can't help but wonder whether younger fly fishermen simplyconsider bamboo an old fashioned oddity, an extravagance out of theirprice reach, or just don't really consider it at all! I also caughtMike Clark roaming around the hall, though he didn't have a booth atthe show. Not that he really needs one considering his 2 or 3 yearwaiting list! I met one other interesting bamboo rodmaker at the showas well - George Gehrke himself! He had several completed rods in thebooth, and while it's certainly possible (likely?) that they are thebest examples he has put out, they weren't nearly as bad as I'd beenlead to believe. The process that George described (I'm doing this from memory, so I may not have this exactly right) called for aninitial tung oil coat on the blank, followed by four coats of varnish.The wraps are applied at this point, varnished, then epoxied (like theguides on a graphite rod). That's followed with another coat (orpossibly two) of varnish. The claim was six coats of varnish total.This surprised me a little, because my first thought upon seeing therod was that the varnish seemed pretty thin. It also didn't have theglass smooth finish that I like to see on a rod. I'm not a big fan ofthe style of flaming that his rods have, but I've seen it on rods fromother makers too, so I can't really knock it. The dark areas look kindof "spotty" rather than a smooth transition between lighter areas anddarker areas of the rod. The components were pretty high quality andthe sections were straight. I noticed some strips that weren't veryclear (waterpsots, etc.), but I didn't see any flaws that looked to bemore than cosmetic (no worm holes or anything). As George himself hasalready stated, there were visible glue lines on the rods. None lookedso bad that I'd consider the strength of the rod suspect, but it'scertainly not as visually appealing as a section without glue lines. Ican't comment on the casting ability of the rods, since I didn't makeit back around to his booth to actually cast one myself. I did see theGinkster himself casting one though. Despite his claim to me in thebooth that he had emptied his spool casting one of the rods, he seemedto be piling up a wad of line pretty frequently. In general, the rodjust looked like it was a little too "whippy" to cast long distances,but it seemed to present OK at shorter distances. Frankly, I'm alittle ticked off at myself that I didn't get back to cast the thinglike I promised George I'd do. Overall, the rods were a little gaudy same rods, putting them in a nice rod sock and simple aluminum tube,and charging the $300.00 he originally claimed was possible, I thinkhe might actually have something(assuming the production quality wasthe same as the rods at the show). Hard-core bamboo guys won't wantone of George's rods, but I happen to believe that there are a lot offly fishermen out there who don't get out fishing all that often, andare really fly fishing equipment accumulators. I think some of themwould probably buy a reasonably priced bamboo rod, and that they'dprobably not care much about how the rod performs since they're onlyout a couple times a year. If I thought the guy would take my advice,I'd suggest George back off a little on the reelseat (maybe a simpleblack anodized aluminum) and drop the price to $300.00 to $350.00 ifpossible. I think at this price point, he might have a winner. Arethese the production rods we discuss so often here? In my opinion, no.We seem to talk more about the classic rods that were considered veryhigh quality in their day. George's rods seem to me to be more alongthe lines of the lower end rods that these same companies put out, orthe trade rods that most companies made for the sporting goods anddepartment stores. I liken it to the market for tennis rackets, golfclubs and other sporting equipment. You can get really nice stuff froma specialty store, but there are a hell of a lot of folks who areperfectly happy with the stuff they get from Wal-Mart for 1/3 thecost. At $350, George's rods would fall right in the "1/3 the cost" ofwhat the majority of rodmakers seem to charge. George himself? Well,he's a character and a half; the consummate salesman. Everything hedoes is the best, and others are either inferior or ripping you off.Having said that, I certainly liked the guy and wouldn't hesitate tosit down for a beer or dip a line with the man. He's still pluggingalong with this thing, and he seems intent on making it work. Like himor not, you've got to admire the courage and conviction of the guy fortrying to do something that hasn't been done in a long time. The showitself was a little disappointing. I primarily went for some flytyingdemos, but the setup was horrible. The tiers were simply sitting at atable, and people just gathered around. If you weren't one of thefirst 10 or 12 people there, you were simply out of luck. There was avideo camera and monitors, but it was set up poorly and there was nosound system to allow you to hear the commentary. The setup at theother large Denver outdoor shows is far superior. I was lucky enoughto get good demos on a few patterns from other tiers that were set up;In particular, B.J. Lester and Charlie Craven. Charlie's fliesimpressed me the most. He was demonstrating some classic patterns, buthis ties were absolutely spectacular; the cleanest, best tied flies Ithink I've ever seen. Didn't really see a lot of new stuff, thoughthere was one product that I'm considering that might be of interestto other "minimalist" fly fishermen. It's a small chest pack thatallows the use of interchangeable aluminum flyboxes as the main partof the platform. it has a couple of coil retractors and a rod holderbuilt in, and includes a small pouch for money, license, etc.. All inall it seems likely a nicely designed little setup, though I had ahard time telling whether the booth was so crowded because of theproduct itself, or the busty young woman who was wearing the thing todisplay it! It's called the Flytedeck, and you can take a look at itat http://www.flytedeck.com/ . Unfortunately, the site requiresShockwave Flash. The usual disclaimers apply; no interest, yadda,yadda. As for the rest of the show, it was pretty standard stuff.Flyshops, manufacturers, outfitters, etc.. While I really like the might impact the flyfishing sections of the other large outdoor shows.Several exhibitors told me that they only do one show a season andthat this was the one for this year. I guess time will tell whether weend up with a really good flyfishing show, or whether the 3 big showstend to cannibalize one another. ---Tim --------------708FB5ED101E33AB89003AA3 Tim, disappointedwith your little tale here and you! You go to a show like that and don'ttake any pictures to share with the rest of us?? No, not of the rods, wecan exchange those amongst ourselves till the cows come home. No not ofGeorge, we can see that on his web site. But to go and actually see youngbusty women modeling fishing gear and not bring back pictures to share,well that is just disappointing! ;^) I can see it now www.bustyflyfishers.com ,(not a real web site so don'teven think of trying it bucko!) perhaps this would be a good idea to sendto the "Man Show" on the comedy network, they could have fly womenjumpingon trampolines or something like that. They do that on their show so well! time, I'm not jealous....much! Tim Klein wrote: Just returned fromDenver's first flyfishing only show and I thought I'd pass along a couple to meet Jon Parker at the show. I was more than a little surprised to seea bamboo rodmaker there, but it was certainly a pleasant surprise!Consideringthe hoards of people around his booth, it was very kind of Jon to spenda few minutes talking to me. I've only had the opportunity to meet a fewmakers in person, but I am constantly impressed by how friendly and helpful simplybeautiful. I had the opportunity to cast one, and needless to say, it wassuperb. Being the casting hack I am though, I listened to the commentsof a couple of other gentlemen who were casting the same rod for an expertopinion. The older of the two had a beautifully smooth casting style andhe was notably impressed with the accuracy of the casts he was getting.His exact comment was "...there isn't a graphite rod made that will delivera fly as accurately and softly as one of these." I'll take him at his booth was a wonderful example of how a setup can generate business whileat the same time educate the flyfishing public. The booth had several"exhibits"that nicely, and simply, explain the process of making a bamboo fly rod.In addition to a section of culm at various stages of the splitting process,there was a display of a rod section where the bottom half of the sectionis glued and the strips are fanned out and pinned separately at the top.Listening to some of the comments from attendees was fascinating. I wassurprised by the number of people who seemed to have never actually seena bamboo fly rod or who had seen them but didn't realize that a sectionis made up of six separate strips. Examining the fine tip of Jon's rodsand realizing that it was made up of six strips evoked more than onecommentalong the lines of "No wonder these things are so damn the crowd around Jon's booth is any indication, bamboo is still the epitomeof the sport. People at these shows always tend to gather around the highend equipment with a covetous look in their eye. Jon's booth had a prettyfair share of those people. Interestingly, it was an older crowd than inplaces like the Sage booth. I can't help but wonder whether younger flyfishermen simply consider bamboo an old fashioned oddity, an extravaganceout of their price reach, or just don't really consider it at also caught Mike Clark roaming around the hall, though he didn't have abooth at the show. Not that he really needs one considering his 2 or 3 bamboo rodmaker at the show as well - George Gehrke had several completed rods in the booth, and while it's certainly possible(likely?) that they are the best examples he has put out, they weren'tnearly as bad as I'd been lead to believe. The process that George described(I'm doing this from memory, so I may not have this exactly right) called The wraps are applied at this point, varnished, then epoxied (like theguides on a graphite rod). That's followed with another coat (or possiblytwo) of varnish. The claim was six coats of varnish total. This surprisedme a little, because my first thought upon seeing the rod was that thevarnish seemed pretty thin. It also didn't have the glass smooth finishthat I like to see on a rod. I'm not a big fan of the style of flamingthat his rods have, but I've seen it on rods from other makers too, soI can't really knock it. The dark areas look kind of "spotty" rather thana smooth transition between lighter areas and darker areas of the rod.The components were pretty high quality and the sections were straight.I noticed some strips that weren't very clear (waterpsots, etc.), but Ididn't see any flaws that looked to be more than cosmetic (no worm holesor anything). As George himself has already stated, there were visibleglue lines on the rods. None looked so bad that I'd consider the strengthof the rod suspect, but it's certainly not as visually appealing as a section castingability of the rods, since I didn't make it back around to his booth toactually cast one myself. I did see the Ginkster himself casting one though.Despite his claim to me in the booth that he had emptied his spool castingone of the rods, he seemed to be piling up a wad of line pretty frequently.In general, the rod just looked like it was a little too "whippy" to castlong distances, but it seemed to present OK at shorter distances. Frankly,I'm a little ticked off at myself that I didn't get back to cast the thing were a little gaudy for my taste and I think they're overpriced. If hewas making these same rods, putting them in a nice rod sock and simplealuminum tube, and charging the $300.00 he originally claimed was possible,I think he might actually have something(assuming the production qualitywas the same as the rods at the show). Hard-core bamboo guys won't wantone of George's rods, but I happen to believe that there are a lot of flyfishermen out there who don't get out fishing all that often, and are reallyfly fishing equipment accumulators. I think some of them would probablybuy a reasonably priced bamboo rod, and that they'd probably not care muchabout how the rod performs since they're only out a couple times a year.If I thought the guy would take my advice, I'd suggest George back offa little on the reelseat (maybe a simple black anodized aluminum) and dropthe price to $300.00 to $350.00 if possible. I think at this price point, productionrods we discuss so often here? In my opinion, no. We seem to talk moreabout the classic rods that were considered very high quality in theirday. George's rods seem to me to be more along the lines of the lower endrods that these same companies put out, or the trade rods that mostcompaniesmade for the sporting goods and department stores. I liken it to the market really nice stuff from a specialty store, but there are a hell of a lotof folks who are perfectly happy with the stuff they get from Wal-Mart cost" of what the majority of rodmakers seem to himself? Well, he's a character and a half; the consummate salesman.Everythinghe does is the best, and others are either inferior or ripping you off.Having said that, I certainly liked the guy and wouldn't hesitate to sitdown for a beer or dip a line with the man. He's still plugging along withthis thing, and he seems intent on making it work. Like him or not, you'vegot to admire the courage and conviction of the guy for trying to dosomething itself was a little disappointing. I primarily went for some flytying demos,but the setup was horrible. The tiers were simply sitting at a table, andpeople just gathered around. If you weren't one of the first 10 or 12 peoplethere, you were simply out of luck. There was a video camera and monitors,but it was set up poorly and there was no sound system to allow you tohear the commentary. The setup at the other large Denver outdoor showsis far superior. I was lucky enough to get good demos on a few patterns from other tiers that were set up; In particular, B.J. Lester and CharlieCraven. Charlie's flies impressed me the most. He was demonstrating someclassic patterns, but his ties were absolutely spectacular; the cleanest, really see a lot of new stuff, though there was one product that I'mconsideringthat might be of interest to other "minimalist" fly fishermen. It's a smallchest pack that allows the use of interchangeable aluminum flyboxes asthe main part of the platform. it has a couple of coil retractors and arod holder built in, and includes a small pouch for money, license, etc..All in all it seems likely a nicely designed little setup, though I hada hard time telling whether the booth was so crowded because of the productitself, or the busty young woman who was wearing the thing to display it!It's called the Flytedeck, and you can take a look at it at http://www.flytedeck.com/. Unfortunately, the site requires Shockwave Flash. The usual disclaimers rest of the show, it was pretty standard stuff. Flyshops, manufacturers,outfitters, etc.. While I really like the idea of a flyfishing only show,I'm a little concerned about how it might impact the flyfishing sectionsof the other large outdoor shows. Several exhibitors told me that theyonly do one show a season and that this was the one for this year. I guesstime will tell whether we end up with a really good flyfishing show, or --------------708FB5ED101E33AB89003AA3-- from harms1@pa.net Sun Jan 7 18:27:14 2001 f080RDI24538 Subject: Fw: Payne 98 -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Payne 98 Ted, I'm astonished at the dimensions as you have provided them here.I've not miked a Payne 98 myself, so I have no personal basis forcomparison. But what surprises me is that there could be such a HUGEdifference between the taper posted by Tim Troester and yours. Iunderstandthat makers would "tweak" their tapers from time to time,but holy smoke, Ted, it wouldn't appear that your rod and Tim's bearany relation to one another AT ALL. I wonder how one might account for such an extreme "variation." WouldPaynereally have altered this rod so extensively and still call it a "98?" Arethere any Payne collectors out there who have had experience with the 98andits various incarnations? cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Ted Knott" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 3:46 PMSubject: Payne 98 In response to several inquiries I am listing the Payne 98 dimensions. Ihave probably made over 20 examples of this taper and as far as I knowevery one has been very happy with its performance. I regularly use myown(not the original, I sold it to pay for a week of fishing on the BowRiverin Alberta!!) to fish the Grand River. I use a #4 line on it most ofthetime, but sometimes use it with a #5 if I'm doing a lot of short linenymphing. Originally I mic'ed the Payne at 6" centres and subtracted.005" JohnLong converted the dimensions into the 5" centres shown here. Station Dimension 0" .2855" .28510" .28515" .26420" .25525" .24330" .23035" .21340" .20042" .195 13/64 ferrule45" .18350" .17155" .16160" .15065" .13570" .11975" .10180" .08584" .o75 from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Jan 7 18:37:33 2001 f080bWI24891 Subject: for those interested OT I told you folks awhile back I 'd have some pics of this hunting season up on my site. Well now I have a rebuilt/new site, Pics are in the Montana 2000 section,if anybody cares, Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jan 7 19:09:56 2001 f0819mI25591 Subject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C078E4.4AFC4FE0 Shawn: If you want to see busty women clad in fishing garb, then go to =http://www.direct-pest.com/tyers/tyers.html and look beside my =photograph for a link to my fishing buddies. Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". = Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 7:27 PMSubject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) I must say I'm rather disappointed with your little tale here =and you! You go to a show like that and don't take any pictures to share =with the rest of us?? No, not of the rods, we can exchange those amongst =ourselves till the cows come home. No not of George, we can see that on =his web site. But to go and actually see young busty women modeling =fishing gear and not bring back pictures to share, well that is just = There's a thought for a new web site! Ahh I can see it now =www.bustyflyfishers.com ,(not a real web site so don't even think of =trying it bucko!) perhaps this would be a good idea to send to the "Man =Show" on the comedy network, they could have fly women jumping on = P.S. I'm only joking, hope you had a great time, I'm not = Shawn "no fishing action = Just returned from Denver's first flyfishing only show and I thought =I'd pass along a couple of experiences. First, I had the opportunity to =meet Jon Parker at the show. I was more than a little surprised to see a =bamboo rodmaker there, but it was certainly a pleasant surprise! =Considering the hoards of people around his booth, it was very kind of =Jon to spend a few minutes talking to me. I've only had the opportunity =to meet a few makers in person, but I am constantly impressed by how =friendly and helpful they always turn out to be. Jon's rods are simply =beautiful. I had the opportunity to cast one, and needless to say, it =was superb. Being the casting hack I am though, I listened to the =comments of a couple of other gentlemen who were casting the same rod = casting style and he was notably impressed with the accuracy of the =casts he was getting. His exact comment was "...there isn't a graphite =rod made that will deliver a fly as accurately and softly as one of =these." I'll take him at his word. Jon's booth was a wonderful example =of how a setup can generate business while at the same time educate the =flyfishing public. The booth had several "exhibits" that nicely, and =simply, explain the process of making a bamboo fly rod. In addition to a =section of culm at various stages of the splitting process, there was a =display of a rod section where the bottom half of the section is glued =and the strips are fanned out and pinned separately at the top. =Listening to some of the comments from attendees was fascinating. I was =surprised by the number of people who seemed to have never actually seen =a bamboo fly rod or who had seen them but didn't realize that a section =is made up of six separate strips. Examining the fine tip of Jon's rods =and realizing that it was made up of six strips evoked more than one =comment along the lines of "No wonder these things are so damn =expensive!". If the crowd around Jon's booth is any indication, bamboo =is still the epitome of the sport. People at these shows always tend to =gather around the high end equipment with a covetous look in their eye. =Jon's booth had a pretty fair share of those people. Interestingly, it =was an older crowd than in places like the Sage booth. I can't help but =wonder whether younger fly fishermen simply consider bamboo an old =fashioned oddity, an extravagance out of their price reach, or just =don't really consider it at all! I also caught Mike Clark roaming around =the hall, though he didn't have a booth at the show. Not that he really =needs one considering his 2 or 3 year waiting list! I met one other =interesting bamboo rodmaker at the show as well - George Gehrke himself! =He had several completed rods in the booth, and while it's certainly =possible (likely?) that they are the best examples he has put out, they =weren't nearly as bad as I'd been lead to believe. The process that =George described (I'm doing this from memory, so I may not have this =exactly right) called for an initial tung oil coat on the blank, =followed by four coats of varnish. The wraps are applied at this point, =varnished, then epoxied (like the guides on a graphite rod). That's =followed with another coat (or possibly two) of varnish. The claim was =six coats of varnish total. This surprised me a little, because my first =thought upon seeing the rod was that the varnish seemed pretty thin. It =also didn't have the glass smooth finish that I like to see on a rod. =I'm not a big fan of the style of flaming that his rods have, but I've =seen it on rods from other makers too, so I can't really knock it. The =dark areas look kind of "spotty" rather than a smooth transition between =lighter areas and darker areas of the rod. The components were pretty =high quality and the sections were straight. I noticed some strips that =weren't very clear (waterpsots, etc.), but I didn't see any flaws that =looked to be more than cosmetic (no worm holes or anything). As George =himself has already stated, there were visible glue lines on the rods. =None looked so bad that I'd consider the strength of the rod suspect, =but it's certainly not as visually appealing as a section without glue =lines. I can't comment on the casting ability of the rods, since I =didn't make it back around to his booth to actually cast one myself. I =did see the Ginkster himself casting one though. Despite his claim to me =in the booth that he had emptied his spool casting one of the rods, he =seemed to be piling up a wad of line pretty frequently. In general, the =rodjust looked like it was a little too "whippy" to cast long =distances, but it seemed to present OK at shorter distances. Frankly, =I'm a little ticked off at myself that I didn't get back to cast the =thing like I promised George I'd do. Overall, the rods were a little =gaudy for my taste and I think they're overpriced. If he was making =these same rods, putting them in a nice rod sock and simple aluminum =tube, and charging the $300.00 he originally claimed was possible, I =think he might actually have something(assuming the production quality =was the same as the rods at the show). Hard-core bamboo guys won't want =one of George's rods, but I happen to believe that there are a lot of =fly fishermen out there who don't get out fishing all that often, and =are really fly fishing equipment accumulators. I think some of them =would probably buy a reasonably priced bamboo rod, and that they'd =probably not care much about how the rod performs since they're only out =a couple times a year. If I thought the guy would take my advice, I'd =suggest George back off a little on the reelseat (maybe a simple black =anodized aluminum) and drop the price to $300.00 to $350.00 if possible. =I think at this price point, he might have a winner. Are these the =production rods we discuss so often here? In my opinion, no. We seem to =talk more about the classic rods that were considered very high quality =in their day. George's rods seem to me to be more along the lines of the =lower end rods that these same companies put out, or the trade rods that =most companies made for the sporting goods and department stores. I =liken it to the market for tennis rackets, golf clubs and other sporting =equipment. You can get really nice stuff from a specialty store, but =there are a hell of a lot of folks who are perfectly happy with the =stuff they get from Wal-Mart for 1/3 the cost. At $350, George's rods =would fall right in the "1/3 the cost" of what the majority of rodmakers =seem to charge. George himself? Well, he's a character and a half; the =consummate salesman. Everything he does is the best, and others are =either inferior or ripping you off. Having said that, I certainly liked =the guy and wouldn't hesitate to sit down for a beer or dip a line with =the man. He's still plugging along with this thing, and he seems intent =on making it work. Like him or not, you've got to admire the courage and =conviction of the guy for trying to do something that hasn't been done =in a long time. The show itself was a little disappointing. I primarily =went for some flytying demos, but the setup was horrible. The tiers were =simply sitting at a table, and people just gathered around. If you =weren't one of the first 10 or 12 people there, you were simply out of =luck. There was a video camera and monitors, but it was set up poorly =and there was no sound system to allow you to hear the commentary. The =setup at the other large Denver outdoor shows is far superior. I was =lucky enough to get good demos on a few patterns from other tiers that =were set up; In particular, B.J. Lester and Charlie Craven. Charlie's =flies impressed me the most. He was demonstrating some classic patterns,=but his ties were absolutely spectacular; the cleanest, best tied flies =I think I've ever seen. Didn't really see a lot of new stuff, though =there was one product that I'm considering that might be of interest to =other "minimalist" fly fishermen. It's a small chest pack that allows =the use of interchangeable aluminum flyboxes as the main part of the =platform. it has a couple of coil retractors and a rod holder built in, =and includes a small pouch for money, license, etc.. All in all it seems =likely a nicely designed little setup, though I had a hard time telling =whether the booth was so crowded because of the product itself, or the =busty young woman who was wearing the thing to display it! It's called =the Flytedeck, and you can take a look at it at =http://www.flytedeck.com/ . Unfortunately, the site requires Shockwave =Flash. The usual disclaimers apply; no interest, yadda, yadda. As for =the rest of the show, it was pretty standard stuff. Flyshops, =manufacturers, outfitters, etc.. While I really like the idea of a =flyfishing only show, I'm a little concerned about how it might impact =the flyfishing sections of the other large outdoor shows. Several =exhibitors told me that they only do one show a season and that this was =the one for this year. I guess time will tell whether we end up with a =really good flyfishing show, or whether the 3 big shows tend to =cannibalize one another. ---Tim ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C078E4.4AFC4FE0 Shawn: If you want to see busty women clad in fishing garb, = to http://www.direct-pe= and look beside my photograph for a link to my fishing =buddies. Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= pest.com/r= ----- Original Message ----- Shawn Pineo Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing = (Long) must = rather disappointed with your little tale here and you! You go to a = that and don't take any pictures to share with the rest of us?? No, = rods, we can exchange those amongst ourselves till the cows come home. = of George, we can see that on his web site. But to go and actually see = busty women modeling fishing gear and not bring back pictures to = web site so don't even think of trying it bucko!) perhaps this would = women jumping on trampolines or something like that. They do that on = = Just returned from Denver's first flyfishing only = more than a little surprised to see a bamboo rodmaker there, but it = certainly a pleasant surprise! Considering the hoards of people = booth, it was very kind of Jon to spend a few minutes talking to me. = only had the opportunity to meet a few makers in person, but I am = opportunity to cast one, and needless to say, it was superb. Being = casting hack I am though, I listened to the comments of a couple of = gentlemen who were casting the same rod for an expert opinion. The = the two had a beautifully smooth casting style and he was notably = with the accuracy of the casts he was getting. His exact comment was = "...there isn't a graphite rod made that will deliver a fly as = and softly as one of these." I'll take him at his = business while at the same time educate the flyfishing public. The = several "exhibits" that nicely, and simply, explain the process of = bamboo fly rod. In addition to a section of culm at various stages = splitting process, there was a display of a rod section where the = half of the section is glued and the strips are fanned out and = separately at the top. Listening to some of the comments from = fascinating. I was surprised by the number of people who seemed to = never actually seen a bamboo fly rod or who had seen them but didn't = that a section is made up of six separate strips. Examining the fine = Jon's rods and realizing that it was made up of six strips evoked = any indication, bamboo is still the epitome of the sport. People at = shows always tend to gather around the high end equipment with a = look in their eye. Jon's booth had a pretty fair share of those = Interestingly, it was an older crowd than in places like the Sage = can't help but wonder whether younger fly fishermen simply consider = an old fashioned oddity, an extravagance out of their price reach, = Mike Clark roaming around the hall, though he didn't have a booth at = show. Not that he really needs one considering his 2 or 3 year = = had several completed rods in the booth, and while it's certainly = (likely?) that they are the best examples he has put out, they = nearly as bad as I'd been lead to believe. The process that George = (I'm doing this from memory, so I may not have this exactly right) = varnish. The wraps are applied at this point, varnished, then = the guides on a graphite rod). That's followed with another coat (or = possibly two) of varnish. The claim was six coats of varnish total. = surprised me a little, because my first thought upon seeing the rod = the varnish seemed pretty thin. It also didn't have the glass smooth = that I like to see on a rod. I'm not a big fan of the style of = his rods have, but I've seen it on rods from other makers too, so I = really knock it. The dark areas look kind of "spotty" rather than a = transition between lighter areas and darker areas of the rod. The = were pretty high quality and the sections were straight. I noticed = strips that weren't very clear (waterpsots, etc.), but I didn't see = flaws that looked to be more than cosmetic (no worm holes or = George himself has already stated, there were visible glue lines on = rods. None looked so bad that I'd consider the strength of the rod = but it's certainly not as visually appealing as a section without = the rods, since I didn't make it back around to his booth to = one myself. I did see the Ginkster himself casting one though. = claim to me in the booth that he had emptied his spool casting one = rods, he seemed to be piling up a wad of line pretty frequently. In = distances, but it seemed to present OK at shorter distances. = little ticked off at myself that I didn't get back to cast the thing = little gaudy for my taste and I think they're overpriced. If he was = these same rods, putting them in a nice rod sock and simple aluminum = and charging the $300.00 he originally claimed was possible, I think = might actually have something(assuming the production quality was = as the rods at the show). Hard-core bamboo guys won't want one of = rods, but I happen to believe that there are a lot of fly fishermen = there who don't get out fishing all that often, and are really fly = equipment accumulators. I think some of them would probably buy a = priced bamboo rod, and that they'd probably not care much about how = performs since they're only out a couple times a year. If I thought = would take my advice, I'd suggest George back off a little on the = (maybe a simple black anodized aluminum) and drop the price to = we = so often here? In my opinion, no. We seem to talk more about the = rods that were considered very high quality in their day. George's = to me to be more along the lines of the lower end rods that these = companies put out, or the trade rods that most companies made for = sporting goods and department stores. I liken it to the market for = rackets, golf clubs and other sporting equipment. You can get really = stuff from a specialty store, but there are a hell of a lot of folks = perfectly happy with the stuff they get from Wal-Mart for 1/3 the = $350, George's rods would fall right in the "1/3 the cost" of what = himself? Well, he's a character and a half; the consummate salesman. = Everything he does is the best, and others are either inferior or = you off. Having said that, I certainly liked the guy and wouldn't = to sit down for a beer or dip a line with the man. He's still = with this thing, and he seems intent on making it work. Like him or = you've got to admire the courage and conviction of the guy for = some flytying demos, but the setup was horrible. The tiers were = sitting at a table, and people just gathered around. If you weren't = the first 10 or 12 people there, you were simply out of luck. There = video camera and monitors, but it was set up poorly and there was no = system to allow you to hear the commentary. The setup at the other = Denver outdoor shows is far superior. I was lucky enough to get good = on a few patterns from other tiers that were set up; In particular, = Lester and Charlie Craven. Charlie's flies impressed me the most. He = there was one product that I'm considering that might be of interest = other "minimalist" fly fishermen. It's a small chest pack that = use of interchangeable aluminum flyboxes as the main part of the = it has a couple of coil retractors and a rod holder built in, and = small pouch for money, license, etc.. All in all it seems likely a = designed little setup, though I had a hard time telling whether the = was so crowded because of the product itself, or the busty young = was wearing the thing to display it! It's called the Flytedeck, and = take a look at it at http://www.flytedeck.com/ Unfortunately, the site requires Shockwave Flash. The usual = = outfitters, etc.. While I really like the idea of a flyfishing only = I'm a little concerned about how it might impact the flyfishing = the other large outdoor shows. Several exhibitors told me that they = one show a season and that this was the one for this year. I guess = tell whether we end up with a really good flyfishing show, or = ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C078E4.4AFC4FE0-- from sats@gte.net Sun Jan 7 19:48:30 2001 f081mTI26343 Subject: Re: Power wrapping/poly spraying Bob,that made me laugh, honestly, that reply just struck me as so funnybecause Ifound wrapping a real chore.Terry You should do like Montigue did, hire a bunch of women to do your wrappingforyou...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/vzn05zew from gjm80301@yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 19:51:19 2001 f081pII26564 18:05:11 PST Subject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) I agree about the Bastards, disagree about the show. The Bastards were the worst-looking cane rods at the show, but that'sbecause all of the others looked good. Your description is accurate,IMO. I have to say that the big epoxy rings look wrong on cane. I spent most of the weekend at the show and had a great time. Therewere some very good presentations and I saw a variety of folks there,including my table-mate at Wayne's class in 1996 - Terry Connners. The only drawback on the show, from my perspective, was that thepromoters underestimated the demand, so things got crowded. I likedthis one better thatn any other Denver show I have been to. --- Tim Klein wrote:Just returned from Denver's first flyfishing only show and Ithought I'd pass along a couple of experiences. First, I had the opportunity to meet Jon Parker at the show. I wasmore than a little surprised to see a bamboo rodmaker there, but itwas certainly a pleasant surprise! Considering the hoards of peoplearound his booth, it was very kind of Jon to spend a few minutestalking to me. I've only had the opportunity to meet a few makersin person, but I am constantly impressed by how friendly andhelpful they always turn out to be. Jon's rods are simply beautiful. I had the opportunity to cast one,and needless to say, it was superb. Being the casting hack I amthough, I listened to the comments of a couple of other gentlemenwho were casting the same rod for an expert opinion. The older ofthe two had a beautifully smooth casting style and he was notablyimpressed with the accuracy of the casts he was getting. His exactcomment was "...there isn't a graphite rod made that will deliver afly as accurately and softly as one of these." I'll take him at hisword. Jon's booth was a wonderful example of how a setup can generatebusiness while at the same time educate the flyfishing public. Thebooth had several "exhibits" that nicely, and simply, explain theprocess of making a bamboo fly rod. In addition to a section ofculm at various stages of the splitting process, there was adisplay of a rod section where the bottom half of the section isglued and the strips are fanned out and pinned separately at thetop. Listening to some of the comments from attendees wasfascinating. I was surprised by the number of people who seemed tohave never actually seen a bamboo fly rod or who had seen them butdidn't realize that a section is made up of six separate strips.Examining the fine tip of Jon's rods and realizing that it was madeup of six strips evoked more than one comment along the lines of"No wonder these things are so damn expensive!". If the crowd around Jon's booth is any indication, bamboo is stillthe epitome of the sport. People at these shows always tend togather around the high end equipment with a covetous look in theireye. Jon's booth had a pretty fair share of those people.Interestingly, it was an older crowd than in places like the Sagebooth. I can't help but wonder whether younger fly fishermen simplyconsider bamboo an old fashioned oddity, an extravagance out oftheir price reach, or just don't really consider it at all! I also caught Mike Clark roaming around the hall, though he didn'thave a booth at the show. Not that he really needs one consideringhis 2 or 3 year waiting list! I met one other interesting bamboo rodmaker at the show as well -George Gehrke himself! He had several completed rods in the booth, and while it'scertainly possible (likely?) that they are the best examples he hasput out, they weren't nearly as bad as I'd been lead to believe.The process that George described (I'm doing this from memory, so Imay not have this exactly right) called for an initial tung oilcoat on the blank, followed by four coats of varnish. The wraps areapplied at this point, varnished, then epoxied (like the guides ona graphite rod). That's followed with another coat (or possiblytwo) of varnish. The claim was six coats of varnish total. Thissurprised me a little, because my first thought upon seeing the rodwas that the varnish seemed pretty thin. It also didn't have theglass smooth finish that I like to see on a rod. I'm not a big fanof the style of flaming that his rods have, but I've seen it onrods from other makers too, so I can't really knock it. The darkareas look kind of "spotty" rather than a smooth transition betweenlighter areas and darker areas of the rod. The components werepretty high quality and the sections were straight. I noticed somestrips that weren't very clear (waterpsots, etc.), but I didn't seeany flaws that looked to be more than cosmetic (no worm holes oranything). As George himself has already stated, there were visibleglue lines on the rods. None looked so bad that I'd consider thestrength of the rod suspect, but it's certainly not as visuallyappealing as a section without glue lines. I can't comment on the casting ability of the rods, since I didn'tmake it back around to his booth to actually cast one myself. I didsee the Ginkster himself casting one though. Despite his claim tome in the booth that he had emptied his spool casting one of therods, he seemed to be piling up a wad of line pretty frequently. Ingeneral, the rod just looked like it was a little too "whippy" tocast long distances, but it seemed to present OK at shorterdistances. Frankly, I'm a little ticked off at myself that I didn'tget back to cast the thing like I promised George I'd do. Overall, the rods were a little gaudy for my taste and I thinkthey're overpriced. If he was making these same rods, putting themin a nice rod sock and simple aluminum tube, and charging the$300.00 he originally claimed was possible, I think he mightactually have something(assuming the production quality was thesame as the rods at the show). Hard-core bamboo guys won't want oneof George's rods, but I happen to believe that there are a lot offly fishermen out there who don't get out fishing all that often,and are really fly fishing equipment accumulators. I think some ofthem would probably buy a reasonably priced bamboo rod, and thatthey'd probably not care much about how the rod performs sincethey're only out a couple times a year. If I thought the guy wouldtake my advice, I'd suggest George back off a little on thereelseat (maybe a simple black anodized aluminum) and drop theprice to $300.00 to $350.00 if possible. I think at this pricepoint, he might have a winner. Are these the production rods we discuss so often here? In myopinion, no. We seem to talk more about the classic rods that wereconsidered very high quality in their day. George's rods seem to meto be more along the lines of the lower end rods that these samecompanies put out, or the trade rods that most companies made forthe sporting goods and department stores. I liken it to the market can get really nice stuff from a specialty store, but there are ahell of a lot of folks who are perfectly happy with the stuff theyget from Wal-Mart for 1/3 the cost. At $350, George's rods wouldfall right in the "1/3 the cost" of what the majority of rodmakersseem to charge. George himself? Well, he's a character and a half; the consummatesalesman. Everything he does is the best, and others are eitherinferior or ripping you off. Having said that, I certainly likedthe guy and wouldn't hesitate to sit down for a beer or dip a linewith the man. He's still plugging along with this thing, and heseems intent on making it work. Like him or not, you've got toadmire the courage and conviction of the guy for trying to dosomething that hasn't been done in a long time. The show itself was a little disappointing. I primarily went forsome flytying demos, but the setup was horrible. The tiers weresimply sitting at a table, and people just gathered around. If youweren't one of the first 10 or 12 people there, you were simply outof luck. There was a video camera and monitors, but it was set uppoorly and there was no sound system to allow you to hear thecommentary. The setup at the other large Denver outdoor shows isfar superior. I was lucky enough to get good demos on a fewpatterns from other tiers that were set up; In particular, B.J.Lester and Charlie Craven. Charlie's flies impressed me the most.He was demonstrating some classic patterns, but his ties wereabsolutely spectacular; the cleanest, best tied flies I think I'veever seen. Didn't really see a lot of new stuff, though there was one productthat I'm considering that might be of interest to other"minimalist" fly fishermen. It's a small chest pack that allows theuse of interchangeable aluminum flyboxes as the main part of theplatform. it has a couple of coil retractors and a rod holder builtin, and includes a small pouch for money, license, etc.. All in allit seems likely a nicely designed little setup, though I had a hardtime telling whether the booth was so crowded because of theproduct itself, or the busty young woman who was wearing the thingto display it! It's called the Flytedeck, and you can take a lookat it at http://www.flytedeck.com/ . Unfortunately, the siterequires Shockwave Flash. The usual disclaimers apply; no interest,yadda, yadda. As for the rest of the show, it was pretty standard stuff.Flyshops, manufacturers, outfitters, etc.. While I really like the might impact the flyfishing sections of the other large outdoorshows. Several exhibitors told me that they only do one show aseason and that this was the one for this year. I guess time willtell whether we end up with a really good flyfishing show, orwhether the 3 big shows tend to cannibalize one another. ---Tim __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from timklein@qwest.net Mon Jan 8 00:35:54 2001 f086ZrI00138 (63.225.240.245) Subject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) Jerry Madigan wrote: ... disagree about the show. I spent most of the weekend at the show and had a great time. Therewere some very good presentations and I saw a variety of folks there,including my table-mate at Wayne's class in 1996 - Terry Connners.The only drawback on the show, from my perspective, was that thepromoters underestimated the demand, so things got crowded. I likedthis one better thatn any other Denver show I have been to. Looking back at what I wrote, I may have given the wrong impression.Overall, the show was actually pretty good and, despite agreeing with yourcomments about the crowd, I enjoyed the day quite a bit. I spent a couple ofminutes talking to one of the organizers of the event and he mentioned thatthey are considering extending next year's show to include Friday. Thatmight help address the crowd situation. My disappointment was definitely related to one particular area of the show(the tying demonstrations), and the guy I talked to was well aware of thedifficulties they had there. He assured me that they'll be addressed nextyear. Considering that this was a first time event for Denver, the problems wereminor and the show was definitely a success. ---Tim from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jan 8 05:19:43 2001 f08BJgI02215 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Fw: Payne 98 The Payne 98 that Timothy posted which is the same as the one in GeorgeMaurer's book is at least to me , more of a #4 wt. Maurer calls it a 4/5wt. I understand that line wt. versus rod/rod action is a prettysubjective thing. Marty -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Payne 98 Ted, I'm astonished at the dimensions as you have provided them here.I've not miked a Payne 98 myself, so I have no personal basis forcomparison. But what surprises me is that there could be such a HUGEdifference between the taper posted by Tim Troester and yours. Iunderstandthat makers would "tweak" their tapers from time to time,but holy smoke, Ted, it wouldn't appear that your rod and Tim's bearany relation to one another AT ALL. I wonder how one might account for such an extreme "variation." WouldPaynereally have altered this rod so extensively and still call it a "98?" Arethere any Payne collectors out there who have had experience with the98andits various incarnations? cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Ted Knott" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 3:46 PMSubject: Payne 98 In response to several inquiries I am listing the Payne 98 dimensions. Ihave probably made over 20 examples of this taper and as far as Iknowevery one has been very happy with its performance. I regularly usemyown(not the original, I sold it to pay for a week of fishing on the BowRiverin Alberta!!) to fish the Grand River. I use a #4 line on it most ofthetime, but sometimes use it with a #5 if I'm doing a lot of short linenymphing. Originally I mic'ed the Payne at 6" centres and subtracted.005" JohnLong converted the dimensions into the 5" centres shown here. Station Dimension 0" .2855" .28510" .28515" .26420" .25525" .24330" .23035" .21340" .20042" .195 13/64 ferrule45" .18350" .17155" .16160" .15065" .13570" .11975" .10180" .08584" .o75 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 07:43:27 2001 f08DhQI03314 2001 05:43:26 PST Subject: Re: Fw: Payne 98 marty, one of the old payne catalogues listed it as a5dt. yes it is the same one as is in the maurer bookbut not where i got it origanally. it is a good rod.timothy --- marty wrote:The Payne 98 that Timothy posted which is the sameas the one in GeorgeMaurer's book is at least to me , more of a #4 wt.Maurer calls it a 4/5wt. I understand that line wt. versus rod/rod actionis a prettysubjective thing. Marty -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 7:08 PMSubject: Re: Payne 98 Ted, I'm astonished at the dimensions as you haveprovided them here.I've not miked a Payne 98 myself, so I have nopersonal basis forcomparison. But what surprises me is that therecould be such a HUGEdifference between the taper posted by TimTroester and yours. Iunderstandthat makers would "tweak" their tapers from timeto time,but holy smoke, Ted, it wouldn't appear thatyour rod and Tim's bearany relation to one another AT ALL. I wonder how one might account for such anextreme "variation." WouldPaynereally have altered this rod so extensively andstill call it a "98?" Arethere any Payne collectors out there who havehad experience with the 98andits various incarnations? cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message -----From: "Ted Knott" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 3:46 PMSubject: Payne 98 In response to several inquiries I am listingthe Payne 98 dimensions. Ihave probably made over 20 examples of thistaper and as far as I knowevery one has been very happy with itsperformance. I regularly use myown(not the original, I sold it to pay for a weekof fishing on the BowRiverin Alberta!!) to fish the Grand River. I usea #4 line on it most ofthetime, but sometimes use it with a #5 if I'mdoing a lot of short linenymphing. Originally I mic'ed the Payne at 6"centres and subtracted.005" moderately to handle nymphing.JohnLong converted the dimensions into the 5"centres shown here. Station Dimension 0" .2855" .28510" .28515" .26420" .25525" .24330" .23035" .21340" .20042" .195 13/64 ferrule45" .18350" .17155" .16160" .15065" .13570" .11975" .10180" .08584" .o75 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 08:00:24 2001 f08E0NI03751 2001 06:00:23 PST Subject: Re: payne 98 "rod 'akers" ted, well it looks like the other 98 taper is the onei got from you. i mistated that . i thot. i hadanother. i cannot find it so i must have been thinkingof someting else, maybe the 198 that was listedrecently. the 98 taper i listed i got from ron barch.and it is the 98 taper that has circulated for awhile. he told me too that there were others, i'll letthe historians among us to sort out the why of thatfact. i haven't made your 98 taper for a 4wt yet butplan to. it looks more like the 97 tapr i have andexpect i will like it. thaks for the taper. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Jan 8 09:12:13 2001 f08FCDI05948 Subject: url Does any know the URL for Ron's Rod and Reels. T.I.AJoewww.geneseevalleyrods.com from ewp42@yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 09:17:27 2001 f08FHQI06301 2001 07:17:23 PST Subject: Re: url URL is http://ronsrods.freeyellow.com/index.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from ldavis@coweblink.net Mon Jan 8 09:40:01 2001 f08Fe0I07168 ; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 08:34:42 -0700 MST Subject: Bamboo Freezing I think I have a new question for the list. I received my first shipment of bamboo last week. Had to store it for nowin an unheated area.The temperature this morning was -17 degrees (mountains of Colorado). Do Ihave to be concerned with the bamboo freezing? ThanksLowell from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jan 8 11:38:02 2001 f08Hc1I11609 Subject: Re: Bamboo Freezing I recently picked up 10 culms of pre-embargo Demarest cane that wasstoredin an unheated garage for the last 15 years. Nice stuff and it doesn'tseem to have suffered. I've made one rod from this lot (3 pc. variation onmy favourite Payne 98 taper) and the finished rod performed very well. ----------From: Lowell Davis Subject: Bamboo FreezingDate: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:40 AM I think I have a new question for the list. I received my first shipment of bamboo last week. Had to store it for nowin an unheated area.The temperature this morning was -17 degrees (mountains of Colorado).DoIhave to be concerned with the bamboo freezing? ThanksLowell from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 11:46:03 2001 f08Hk1I12012 2001 10:00:22 PST Subject: Rod Section Calculation Worksheet I put together a simple Excel worksheet to calculate rod sectionlengths and to show where each section starts and stops on a taperchart. If anyone wants a copy, email me. It's only 24K. Suggestions for improvements definitely accepted. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Jan 8 11:57:07 2001 f08Hv5I12498 Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:57:04 -0500 Subject: RE: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! A proper respect for the craft might have suggested that you wait untilyou've built a few before deriding another man's product. It's not rocketscience but it's not all that easy, either. When you can hand plane anequilateral triangular section to within a couple thousandths of an inch andput on a flawless finish, you have a right to talk. Not before. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 2:11 AM Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! At 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard isinsulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards! I went to a fly-fishingshow in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual"stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. Alas, who is there infull force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself! Even had the kid with theentourage! I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insultrods)I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show. I have five year oldgrandson who could do a better job! No Shit, guys -n- gals! This guyturns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters! Missedfinishingseveral spots of the windings on every rod!! NO winding check and theforward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dull axeand then run over a few times. He told me he didn't put checks on to savecosts!!!! I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I canabout the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and Iguarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave myshop! Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed ascraftsmanship. What a joke!If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahooproducinganything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!! Iventure that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now10,000flyfishers know what his crap looks like! I did not even bother to castone of them, wouldn't waste my time!!! (And I'm Cheap!!!, just ask alltheladies!!) I'm not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out there alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways! Says he's averaging two a day, most ever @ five! My opinion is thathehas an average of NO rods/day! This guy has not built one to date if hislife's work is like what I saw today. I literally chuckled for four hoursas I walked the show floor! This guy wouldn't make a pimple on arodbuilder's butt! As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie, thereis nosuch thing!! What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination, arod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang thatdoesn't come back? A stick! Still laughing, (and crying a bit too for all the concern over thisyahoo'swork!) John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 8 12:26:38 2001 f08IQbI13454 Subject: Bean Pot Several weeks ago we discussed using steam for flattening nodes. I wasvery interested in this as I believe the dry heated air of a heat gun weakensthe joint; at least in my case. Several members have reported the straightgrain breaking before the node in break test but I am wondering if this was before the straight grain. In my case the dry heat of the heat gun appearsto make the joint brittle. I believe the application of steam will allowflattening without making the joint brittle. The problem however is getting the steam hot enough. The generalconsensus is that the cane contains a resin that must be softened beforethe joint can be properly flattened. from my observations, it appears thatthis temperature is in the order of 300 degrees F. Steam generated atnormal atmospheric pressure is 212 degrees; or less. For the steam to beeffective, it's temperature must be increased. With that in mind, I created the "Bean Pot". The boiling temperature is afunction of the atmospheric pressure. The lower the pressure, the lower theboiling temperature and the higher the pressure the higher the boiling pointand the higher the temperature of the steam. This is the principle used inthe steam cooker. The "Bean Pot" is a modified steam cooker. I had some scrap aluminum that I used to make a steam chamber. Thechamber itself is made from a 3 inch long rectangular aluminum bar 1" indiameter. I drilled a 3/8" lengthwise through the bar and bored all but thelast 0.1" to 0.8". I turned an 0.1" thick aluminum disk just larger than .8"with a centered hole of 3/8". This I pressed into the open end of the boredrod to make the steam chamber. To mount the chamber, I made a fixture from a 2 *" round aluminum rod, 2 *" in length. I milled a 1" flat bottomedgrove 1" deep into the side of the round bar. I drilled a hole lengthwisethrough the center of the bar. This diameter is not critical and depends onthe choice of pressure gauge and bottom fitting. I bought a 0 to 30 psigauge from the local homebrew store. I threaded the hole to in the top ofthe fixture to match the pressure guage. In my case I used a brass fittingto reduce the hole size to something that fitted my tap and die set. Tomount the fixture on t!!!he lid of the cooker, I turned an adapter that had a 3/32" hole drilledlengthwise. This hole allows steam to enter the fixture. The adapterdimensions will depend on available tap and die tools. Tap the bottom of thefixture to accept your adapter with the bottom end of the adapter mountingto the lid. I used the nut that was used on the pressure vent of the cookerso I could return the pot to cooking service if the experiment failed. I drilleda hole from each end of the fixture into the milled out groove. I threadedthese holes for an 8/32" set screw to secure the steam chamber. Iattached and centered the steam chamber and tightened the set screws. Ithen drilled a 1/16" hole from the back of the fixture through the center ofthe fixture and exiting into the steam chamber just above center. I thenmade a needle valve and enlarged the hole between the back of the fixtureand the middle of the fixture; (remember the middle of the fixture has avertical hole through !!!it). I just let the drill touch the backside of the lengthwise hole in the fixtureto make a seat for the needle valve. I tapped the hole to mate with theneedle valve. Another 1/16" hole should be drilled into the bottom of thepressure chamber to allow the water that condenses in the chamber to leakout. The fixture mounts on the top of the lid of the cooker with a 0 to 30psi pressure guage mounted on top, the 1" by 3" pressure chamber mountedcrosswise on the adapter and a needle valve mounted on the back of thefixture. For my case, I used a Presto 6 qt pressure cooker; like the one mymother used to cook beans years and years and ago. I've been told thatused pressure cookers are available at Goodwill outlets for peanuts. Use of the chamber. Put 2 to 4 quarts of water in the pot. Leave the lidopen and bring the water to a boil. Put the lid on the pot and adjust thetemperature and the needle valve to obtain the desired amount of steam. Mine works with the needle valve opened only a quarter of a turn and thestove burner set to about half power to obtain a pressure of 15 psi. How well did it work? With the needle valve adjusted out * turn, I adjustedthe temperature to obtain a pressure of 15 psi. I've not tried any higherpressure. All the information I've read on the web lists the pressure cookeras operating at 15 to 20 psi with a temperature of about 250 degrees F. The pressure cooker has an rubber pop off if the pressure gets to high but Ireally don't want to do that. I measured the temperature in the chamber andfound it to be about 220 to 225. The loss due to cooling by thefixture/chamber. centering the node in the chamber, only the joint (or area to be straightened)is steamed. 3 to 5 minutes brings the joint to temperature and dampness. This works well for straightening; even those evil "S" bends at the nodes. woody part of the joint is flattened due to the wetness of the joint but theresin is not hot enough. The node raises some when the vise pressure isreleased. My solution. There is a small inexpensive electric iron made for coveringmodel airplanes using the heat shrinkable plastic film. It's available at allhobby shops catering to RC airplane hobbyist. The iron is a small sole platewith a handle affixed to top of the iron at an angle about 45 degrees. Sortof looks like a large soldering iron with the end bent at an angle. The one Ihave is a 170 watt and could probably reach solder melting temperatures ifthe adjuster were screwed down. The temperature of the sole plate (about 1*" by 3 *") is adjustable. After taking the strip out of the steam chamber, Iplace it on a board or cutting block with the enamel up and press the iron tothe node for 15 to 30 seconds (depending on the temp setting of the iron). This raises the joint temperature enough to soften the resin. I then placethe joint in the vise and clamp as usual. So far this is working well. At least I'm getting straight flattened strips andI haven't broken any so far. Higher temperature steam could be obtained ifthe aluminum fixture didn't sink so much of the heat away. Raising thetemperature of the chamber is another option but this raises the question ofsafety. I'm not ready to rupture a pot of superheated water/steam. BeforeI try raising the pressure I am going to make some pressure tests using myair compressor. I believe the pressure can probably be raised to 20 psi butthat's probably the limit. This would still likely not be hot enough to softenthe resin. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 8 12:35:39 2001 f08IZcI13804 Subject: Re: Bean Pot Looks like the copy process hiccuped! Delete the two sets of exclamationmarks. When I copied the text from word, it inserted them. Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 8 13:06:44 2001 f08J6hI15009 Subject: Save your Mason Jars Chris, Joe, and Tom,I took my Hank Woolman 7'6" 5wt. wetfly rod out yesterday for somecasting. I greatly doubt that Mr. Leon Thomas could have created a morepleasing taper than friend Hank.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from steve@hamiltonrods.com Mon Jan 8 13:12:20 2001 f08JCJI15394 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Multi-color rod followup (pictures) About a month ago, I asked the membership of this list if anyone hadmade a two-tone rod in which entire strips of the rod are alternatelyflamed and blond (i.e. three strips are flamed, three strips areblond). Several people responded saying they'd seen a South Bend rodlike that years ago; others said they thought it would be a neatexperiment. Just about everyone said "why not?" so I gave it a try. As promised, I took several pictures of the rod and put them up on aWeb site for all to see. (As a side note, I sure wish others would dopublish photos of their rods so I could see the quality and styles ofothers' rods--I'm really trying to improve with each rod.) Check out http://www.hamiltonrods.com/TwoTone/ to see the pictures. I'm a hobbyist (i.e. non-professional) builder, and I must say thatalternating the color of the strips is something everyone should try.Not necessarily for it's cosmetic appeal--although I do find theresult attractive--but because it really accentuates the limitationsin your planing and straightening skills :) I learned a lot frombuilding this rod. --Steve from across@www.downandacross.com Mon Jan 8 14:28:04 2001 f08KS4I18580 (4.48.182.223) Subject: Re: Bean Pot Hi Onis:Soaking the strips over night also works well to keep the heat gun from damaging the nodes. It also makes rough planing easier. (Works fantastic on the Hand Mill that way.) I like your idea.Best regards,Bob Shop Safely Online Without a Credit Cardhttp://www.rocketcash.com from rvenneri@ulster.net Mon Jan 8 14:34:58 2001 f08KYvI19060 Subject: Re: Multi-color rod followup (pictures) Steve Zimmerman wrote: About a month ago, I asked the membership of this list if anyone hadmade a two-tone rod in which entire strips of the rod are alternatelyflamed and blond (i.e. three strips are flamed, three strips areblond). Several people responded saying they'd seen a South Bend rodlike that years ago; others said they thought it would be a neatexperiment. Just about everyone said "why not?" so I gave it a try. As promised, I took several pictures of the rod and put them up on aWeb site for all to see. (As a side note, I sure wish others would dopublish photos of their rods so I could see the quality and styles ofothers' rods--I'm really trying to improve with each rod.) Check out http://www.hamiltonrods.com/TwoTone/ to see the pictures. I'm a hobbyist (i.e. non-professional) builder, and I must say thatalternating the color of the strips is something everyone should try.Not necessarily for it's cosmetic appeal--although I do find theresult attractive--but because it really accentuates the limitationsin your planing and straightening skills :) I learned a lot frombuilding this rod. --SteveSteve , Nice job. Do you think the different heat treating of thestrips will effect the casting. I also love the reel seat too. Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.htm from steve@hamiltonrods.com Mon Jan 8 14:42:59 2001 f08KgxI19521 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Multi-color rod followup (pictures) Bob Venneri wrote: Steve , Nice job. Do you think the different heat treating of thestrips will effect the casting. I also love the reel seat too. The way I cast, I don't think it would matter much :) I heat treatedthe rough bound strips for quite a while so I think the blond stripsare just about as dry as the dark ones. I have lawn cast the rod andit casts pretty well--it's not a tried and true taper, mind you--I'llhave more info hopefully later this week if my Western NC streams thawout a bit. And, yes, that *is* a very nice reel seat if you do say so yourself!:) (For those who don't know, Bob made the reel seat.) --Steve from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon Jan 8 14:54:37 2001 f08KsaI20246 Subject: Re: Save your Mason Jars Reed: I am glad you had a great time casting the Hank Woolman rod. Enjoy yourfreedom while you can because I believe that Mr. Bogart has his heart set oncapturing your soul in a Mason Jar. As a matter of fact I have a good stockof Mason Jars here at the house (both pint and quart sizes). I have alreadyemptied the contents (fine mountain cold remedy), but if you are a good boy,i'll leave just a drop or two of the elixir in your jar so you can enjoy it.Would you prefer plain, peach or apricot flavored? My darling wife is getting prepared to do the wraps on the rod. I amletting her practice on a couple of rods I am building right now. One is aPHY Perfectionist 3 piece 2 tip, and the other is of the Bogart J.J. Rod. We are not getting fancy with the wraps on the PHY just wrapping and thentipping, but on the J.J. rod we are planning on doing intermediates just soshe can get more practice. I wonder if we should place some Christmas lights around the jar? :)))) Have a great day Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker Chris, Joe, and Tom,I took my Hank Woolman 7'6" 5wt. wetfly rod out yesterday for somecasting. I greatly doubt that Mr. Leon Thomas could have created a morepleasing taper than friend Hank.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from anglport@con2.com Mon Jan 8 15:09:34 2001 f08L9XI21051 Subject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) Hey!Who's planning to be at the Somerset Show in New Jersey SuperBowlweekend?I'll be working the Central Jersey T.U. booth most of Saturday. Stop by orlet me know you're worth looking for and I'll visit you! J- Z, you gwan bethere? I didn't want to bother you last year, since every time I walked byyour booth you were doing business. We can always chat at Gatherings; I'mnot going to "HI" you when you're making a sale!Anyone else? Mr. Spezio?Art At 11:33 PM 01/07/2001 -0700, Tim Klein wrote:Jerry Madigan wrote: ... disagree about the show. I spent most of the weekend at the show and had a great time. Therewere some very good presentations and I saw a variety of folks there,including my table-mate at Wayne's class in 1996 - Terry Connners.The only drawback on the show, from my perspective, was that thepromoters underestimated the demand, so things got crowded. I likedthis one better thatn any other Denver show I have been to. Looking back at what I wrote, I may have given the wrong impression.Overall, the show was actually pretty good and, despite agreeing with yourcomments about the crowd, I enjoyed the day quite a bit. I spent a couple ofminutes talking to one of the organizers of the event and he mentionedthatthey are considering extending next year's show to include Friday. Thatmight help address the crowd situation. My disappointment was definitely related to one particular area of the show(the tying demonstrations), and the guy I talked to was well aware of thedifficulties they had there. He assured me that they'll be addressed nextyear. Considering that this was a first time event for Denver, the problems wereminor and the show was definitely a success. ---Tim from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 8 16:15:04 2001 f08MF4I23666 Subject: Re: Bean Pot I've soaked and planed but didn't think about soaking and flattening. I'll trythat. Maybe I can retire the Bean Pot. Thanks. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jan 8 17:19:13 2001 f08NJCI25631 Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:19:11 +0100 Subject: Sv: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! f08NJDI25632 Seth I am sorry to say that i absolutely do not agree in Your last remark.John spoke his opinion onthe finish of the rod. Not having seen therod, I cannot comment on it, but judging the finish of a fishing rodis certainly not rocket science, and any flyfisher who has seena number of rods (and this was at an exhibition) I dare say is ableto judge whether a particular rod is up to the standard set by other rods. If not, how come some rods are highly estimated, others are classifiedas junk? Not all buyers of rods are rodmakers. Now, John might have high standards, and he may not be that diplomatic,but it is not hard to judge the finish of a rod, I dare say. As to the fishabilitywell, that is something else, and perhaps more a question of taste andknowledge. Let us not, as rodmakers, reserve ourselves the right to determine what is good, and what is not. The buying public is the final judge in the end.The one who pays the piper calls the tune. regards Carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! A proper respect for the craft might have suggested that you wait untilyou've built a few before deriding another man's product. It's not rocketscience but it's not all that easy, either. When you can hand plane anequilateral triangular section to within a couple thousandths of an inch andput on a flawless finish, you have a right to talk. Not before. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 8 17:42:31 2001 f08NgVI26329 ;Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:42:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Denver Fly Fishing Show (Long) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C079A2.E2EFC0C0 Tim:All you say about Jon Parker is absolutely true and he truly is one of =the best bamboo rodmakers of our time. I met Jon on occasion when he was=still here in the East and he was always willing to spend time =discussing rodmaker problems we novices are confronted with. Jack ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C079A2.E2EFC0C0 Tim:All you say about Jon Parker is = he truly is one of the best bamboo rodmakers of our time. I met Jon on = when he was still here in the East and he was always willing to spend = discussing rodmaker problems we novices are confronted =with. Jack ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C079A2.E2EFC0C0-- from across@www.downandacross.com Mon Jan 8 17:53:50 2001 f08NrnI26640 (4.4.214.165) Subject: Re: Bean Pot Onis:It does work. I must add however, that John Bokstrom who has widely promoted (created?) the soaking idea for straightening does not advise it Best regards,Bob At 05:19 PM 1/8/2001 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:Thanks Bob. I've soaked and planed but I didn't think of soak and flatten. I'll try that. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com across@www.downandacross.com wrote:Hi Onis:Soaking the strips over night also works well to keep the heat gun fromdamaging the nodes. It also makes rough planing easier. (Works fantastic onthe Hand Mill that way.) I like your idea.Best regards,Bob Shop Safely Online Without a Credit Cardhttp://www.rocketcash.com Shop Safely Online Without a Credit Cardhttp://www.rocketcash.com from richjez@enteract.com Mon Jan 8 18:00:27 2001 f0900QI26934 Subject: Re: Save your Mason Jars --=====================_1464492==_.ALT Was this one of Hank's straight tapers?Rich At 01:10 PM 1/8/01, reed curry wrote:Chris, Joe, and Tom,I took my Hank Woolman 7'6" 5wt. wetfly rod out yesterday for somecasting. I greatly doubt that Mr. Leon Thomas could have created a morepleasing taper than friend Hank.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):>-- =====================_1464492==_.ALT Was this one of Hank's straight tapers?Rich At 01:10 PM 1/8/01, reed curry wrote:Chris, Joe, and Tom, yesterday for somecasting. I greatly doubt that Mr. Leon Thomas could have created amorepleasing taper than friend Hank.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_1464492==_.ALT-- from harms1@pa.net Mon Jan 8 18:08:51 2001 f0908oI27217 Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:08:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Freezing Nah. I kept my cane out in a shed for a period of seven or eight years (afew years back) and it made no difference whatsoever. Plane away, myfriend, and enjoy the shavings as the rod. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Freezing I think I have a new question for the list. I received my first shipment of bamboo last week. Had to store it for nowin an unheated area.The temperature this morning was -17 degrees (mountains of Colorado).Do Ihave to be concerned with the bamboo freezing? ThanksLowell from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 8 18:23:04 2001 f090N2I27687 Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:22:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Rod Section Calculation Worksheet Jerry,Thanks for the "calculator" . Looks great to me. But like lotsof things, spawns a question in my simple but inquiring mind. When one measures a rod section for a female ferrule, at whatpoint does one cut? Let's see if an example will help. Suppose the flat to flatmeasurement is .200" at the end of the male ferruled section. Alsosuppose that the corresponding end of the female section will also be.200" for this particular rod (no step at the ferrule). Does one cutthe female at .200"? Or, does one cut above or below that measurementthe length of the male slide, or the female seating depth, or thelength of the metal portion which will cover the bamboo? I know what I've been doing, I'm just curious what "y'all" do, andwhy. Harry Jerry Madigan wrote: I put together a simple Excel worksheet to calculate rod sectionlengths and to show where each section starts and stops on a taperchart. from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 8 18:55:03 2001 f090t2I28303 Subject: Re: Save your Mason Jars --------------66180AA5172EC6B59FAABF3D Rich,Yes, indeed.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Rich Jezioro wrote: Was this one of Hank's straight tapers?Rich --------------66180AA5172EC6B59FAABF3D Rich, Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/Rich Jezioro wrote:Was this one of Hank's straighttapers?Rich --------------66180AA5172EC6B59FAABF3D-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jan 8 19:43:45 2001 f091hiI29075 Subject: Re: Save your Mason Jars Reed - I have no doubt that Hank has supplied you with something great, but don't be too quick to assume that you have a "get out of jar free" card just yet. You haven't seen what we have in store for you. My guess is that the jar goes home with a no vacancy sign on it. from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 19:47:25 2001 f091lOI29242 2001 18:10:07 PST Subject: Re: Rod Section Calculation Worksheet Harry, That question, which I would have to think through each time, is whyI wanted to standardize through the worksheet. I like to work with taper specs starting from the tip. The worksheetgives you exact measurements of where each section is cut on bothends. For example, if the tiptop extension os .307 (like the 3 pcexample), you can set your "0" setting at a station and mark a cutoffline .307 below that. Likewise down the way. the idea is is to havea continuous taper, as though it's a one-piece , with only about .080misssing at one or two points. Avoiding "taper creep" was one of mygoals. In other words, the answer is in the worksheet. Jerry--- Harry Boyd wrote:Jerry,Thanks for the "calculator" . Looks great to me. But likelotsof things, spawns a question in my simple but inquiring mind. When one measures a rod section for a female ferrule, at whatpoint does one cut? Let's see if an example will help. Suppose the flat to flatmeasurement is .200" at the end of the male ferruled section. Alsosuppose that the corresponding end of the female section will alsobe.200" for this particular rod (no step at the ferrule). Does onecutthe female at .200"? Or, does one cut above or below thatmeasurementthe length of the male slide, or the female seating depth, or thelength of the metal portion which will cover the bamboo? I know what I've been doing, I'm just curious what "y'all" do,andwhy. Harry Jerry Madigan wrote: I put together a simple Excel worksheet to calculate rod sectionlengths and to show where each section starts and stops on ataperchart. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from macsrods@yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 19:50:12 2001 f091oBI29467 Jan 2001 17:50:12 PST Subject: list serve help needed What is the URL for commands for this list serve? ANdwhat are the commands to list users and or email.thanks =====Rich McGaugheyCEO Macsrods(email macsrods@yahoo.com)see New Graphite rods and rebuilt Bamboo fly rods at http://member.aol.com/mcbertin1/macsrods2.htm __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 20:06:52 2001 f0926pI00014 2001 18:21:33 PST Subject: Worksheet Access/Update Jerry Foster has graciously offered to put it on his website. Hewill send out a message when it is added. I sent him a revised copy that requires one more measurement perferrule - the thickness of the female plug. (I had assumed that thethickness was the same as measured for the male.) I also cleaned upsome of the descriptions. No one seems to have found any real errorsso far. Thanks. Especially, Thanks Jerry Foster. Jerry M PS. The ferrule measurements in the revised sheet are for 16/64 and10/64 for the 3 piece and a 13/64 for the two-piece. Someday, one ofus can measure a bunch of ferrules and provide typical numbers tosave us all time. It looks like .040 is not a bad estimate for plug thickness. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from dutcher@email.msn.com Mon Jan 8 20:07:01 2001 f09270I00075 Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:06:49 -0800 Subject: Horricks-Ibbotson Black River 8' 6" Hello Guys, This is my nomination for question of the year. I would like to find thedimensions for a H-I, Black River. This is a combination/convertible, flyrod, and casting rod. It has a cigar grip with down locking reel seat. Thebutt section is 26" long with out the grip. For casting it has a 36" tipthat fits directly to the butt making it a 5 1/2' casting rod. This is thepiece I am missing. As a fly rod, it has a 36" mid-section, and a 36" tip-section whichmakes it an 8 1/2 ' for a 6 weight line. If anyone has the actual dimensionit would help me to determine if all the pieces are original and to possiblereconstruct the casting tip. Old catalog pictures and specifications wouldbe very helpful. I know I could probably build a new rod with superior qualities for thesame amount of effort I will expend on this project but, I have the rod andfeel the need to bring it back into use. Something kind of special about oldbamboo. It would be like turning your back on an old fisherman that needshelp navigating the river bank. Anyway, the usual thanks in advance guys, Iknow you will give it some thought. Best regards,DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Mon Jan 8 20:08:36 2001 f0928ZI00326 ;Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:08:32 -0800 Subject: Re: list serve help needed At 5:50 PM -0800 , 1/8/01, Rich McGaughey wrote about list serve helpneededWhat is the URL for commands for this list serve? ANdwhat are the commands to list users and or email.thanks The following is quoted the message everyone receives when they subscribe to the list: " ********** HOW TO GET OFF THE LIST ********** To sign off from the list, email to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu with the followingrequest: signoff RODMAKERSorunsubscribe RODMAKERS ********** GETTING YOUR SUBSCRIPTION ATTRIBUTES ********** You may get your current subscription attributes at any time by sending thefollowing request to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu: query RODMAKERS ********** WHERE TO SEND EMAIL ********** If you want to post messages to list RODMAKERS, you should direct youremail to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, not listproc@wugate.wustl.edu.If you wish to send requests please do not send them to the list -- theywill not be processed. Instead direct them to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu.Requests sent to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu should be placed in the body oftheemail message, not the Subject:. ListProc ignores requests in the Subject:field. You can, however, put as many requests as you like in one mail message;eachrequest should be on a line by itself. If your request is too long for yourmailer to handle, you can break it in multiple lines, but each line shouldend with the character & (ampersand). For example, here are two separaterequests: set RODMAKERS &mail &ackhelp The ampersands in the above example are immediately followed by carriage set RODMAKERS mail ackhelp ********** DIGESTS ********** All messages posted to this list are also available in daily digests.If you wish to receive messages in digest format you may send the followingrequest to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu: set RODMAKERS mail digest"... " ********** GETTING STATISTICS ********** To get list statistics you may send the following request tolistproc@wugate.wustl.edu: stats RODMAKERS ********** REVIEWING THE LIST ********** To review the list's settings you may send the following request tolistproc@wugate.wustl.edu: review RODMAKERS ********** ACCESS TO THE LIST'S ARCHIVES ********** The list is archived regularly and many, if not all, previous postings areavailable from this server. All past mail messages are collected into(daily, monthly, etc) logs; to get a list of the available logs for this listyou may send the following request to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu: index RODMAKERS Each line will show you the log file's name, its size, and a brief comment.You can then get any logs with the GET request. For example, if you wish toget log9611 you may send the following request tolistproc@wugate.wustl.edu: get RODMAKERS log9611 Here we assume log9611 is the name of the log. Log names may notnecessarilybe uniform. ********** HOW TO GET MORE HELP ********** To get more information on how to use this service, please send thefollowing request to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu: HELP There are far more options, settings, and niceties about ListProcessor(tm)and we encourage you to explore all of them; HELP should be your startingpoint. Enjoy! ListProcessor(tm)Welcome to RODMAKERS!!! !!!! PLEASE SAVE THIS MESSAGE !!!! You will doubtlessly find occasion to refer to it later." from cathcreek@hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 20:15:47 2001 f092FgI00762 Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:15:37 -0800 Tue, 09 Jan 2001 02:15:37 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sv: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! FILETIME=[0E874610:01C079E2] Speaking of pipers, I think you should let us pipers who happen to make rods decide. Sorry folks, couldn't resist. Rob "better rod maker than piper (I hope)" Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com P.S., George is unusual, but has always been very polite to correspond with and I would hesitate to send negative comments to a list about anyone if I could avoid it. From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Sv: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell!Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:25:43 +0100 Seth I am sorry to say that i absolutely do not agree in Your last remark.John spoke his opinion onthe finish of the rod. Not having seen therod, I cannot comment on it, but judging the finish of a fishing rodis certainly not rocket science, and any flyfisher who has seena number of rods (and this was at an exhibition) I dare say is ableto judge whether a particular rod is up to the standard set by other rods. If not, how come some rods are highly estimated, others are classifiedas junk? Not all buyers of rods are rodmakers. Now, John might have high standards, and he may not be that diplomatic,but it is not hard to judge the finish of a rod, I dare say. As to the fishabilitywell, that is something else, and perhaps more a question of taste andknowledge. Let us not, as rodmakers, reserve ourselves the right to determine whatis good, and what is not. The buying public is the final judge in the end.The one who pays the piper calls the tune. regards Carsten ----- Original Message -----From: Seth Steinzor Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 6:58 PMSubject: RE: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! A proper respect for the craft might have suggested that you wait untilyou've built a few before deriding another man's product. It's not rocketscience but it's not all that easy, either. When you can hand plane anequilateral triangular section to within a couple thousandths of an inch andput on a flawless finish, you have a right to talk. Not before. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Jan 8 21:40:54 2001 f093erI02342 Subject: Portland Sportsmans Exposition (short) Organization: GOULD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01C079AA.BC13F680 Hi Gang,Attended the Portland show last Saturday. Only saw one other bamboo fly =rod besides my own. Did a rod wrapping demonstration at the Frank Amato =Publications booth and found that many folks were interested. Lots of =people at the show.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01C079AA.BC13F680 Hi Gang,Attended the Portland show last = one other bamboo fly rod besides my own. Did a rod wrapping = Frank Amato Publications booth and found that many folks were = of people at the show.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01C079AA.BC13F680-- from GriffinJohn@email.msn.com Mon Jan 8 21:42:48 2001 f093gmI02524 Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:42:42 -0800 Subject: HL Leonard Tournament Specs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C079C4.E42429A0 Anyone have a lead on refinish specs for a 9 1/2' 3/2 HL Leonard ="Tournament"? Dick Spurr suggested a Martin Keane book, but noted that it is out of =print. Something like Mike Sinclair's rod reconditioning and reference =book would be ideal. Also, I would like to make an independent handle for the rod. Anyone =knoe of a source for a butt female ferrule, or a scrap tournament butt =section? Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C079C4.E42429A0 Anyone have a lead on refinish specs = Dick Spurr suggested a Martin Keane = that it is out of print. Something like Mike Sinclair's rod = reference book would be ideal. Also, I would like to make an = tournament butt section? Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video=/ ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C079C4.E42429A0-- from rextutor@about.com Mon Jan 8 21:56:00 2001 f093txI02949 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 19:55:54 -0800 Subject: Quality question I was bidding on some restored bamboo fly rods and He sent me this elitist tirade about the rod I was bidding on . He said there was allot of discussion in the bamboo community about how Macsrods and MacsRods. I own three of his rods , 1 graphite and two bamboo . I went over and saw the rods before I purchased them. They are good rods. I really like the prices. I have tried to buy a bamboo from other people and they all start at 500 and go up to 3000. So I was wondering if the bamboo rod community regularly gave reviews because another bamboo fly rod community, that Dana says is talking up Macsrods ? I'd like to join in because he (dana gray)has never seen Macsrods according to Rich . I also need to let Dana know I am going to report him to eBay for unsolicited email . The return address he gives is false. Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from cadams46@juno.com Mon Jan 8 22:07:39 2001 f0947cI03270 23:07:28 EST Subject: Milling Machine Thanks Thanks guys for the various advice as to where to look for a basicmilling machine design. Certainly got me thinking about some designs andthe like. It still seems that milling would lessen the strenght of thestrip becase your cutting into more of the power fibers but maybe I justthink that because I started out reading the dreaded Garrison Book. Thanks again.C.R. Adams from timklein@qwest.net Mon Jan 8 22:37:38 2001 f094bbI03964 (63.225.127.139) Subject: VIRUS ALERT! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01C079BA.F1BC47A0 I just received an e-mail virus, but I can't confirm from the headers =exactly where it came from. Since the rodmakers list is one of the very few places I receive mail = from and since this is a self replicating worm, it's possible that it's =come from a listmember unaware he is infected. I know we're all sick of =seeing these things (and the "helpful" notifications as well), but I =thought I'd send this out just in case. The e-mail is titled: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! It is addressed from: Hahaha - hahaha@sexyfun.net It contains the joke.exe attachment that has been pretty widely reported =(though the file can receive other names at random) . For more =information on the virus, the symantec website is as follows: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html ---Tim ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01C079BA.F1BC47A0 I just received an e-mail virus, but I can't confirm = headers exactly where it came from. Since the rodmakers list is one of the very few = receive mail from and since this is a self replicating worm, it's = it's come from a listmember unaware he is infected. I know we're all = seeing these things (and the "helpful" notifications as well), but I = send this out just in case. the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! It is addressed from: Hahaha - hahaha@sexyfun.net It contains the joke.exe attachment that has been = widely reported (though the file can receive other names at random) . = information on the virus, the symantec website is as =follows: h=ttp://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html ---Tim ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01C079BA.F1BC47A0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Jan 8 22:42:33 2001 f094gVI04188 f094gKx03789; Subject: Re: Multi-color rod followup (pictures) Organization: vet SteveThat's a very nice, striking looking rod, with a very impressive reelseat. How many coats of varnish do you have on the butt section, especially overthe wraps? I really like mine to be smooth finished, like these of yours,but have some difficulty achieving that without getting them all kind ofgluggy; whereas yours look like glass in these photos. Do you dip them? Stay healthy, Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Multi-color rod followup (pictures) About a month ago, I asked the membership of this list if anyone hadmade a two-tone rod in which entire strips of the rod are alternatelyflamed and blond (i.e. three strips are flamed, three strips areblond). Several people responded saying they'd seen a South Bend rodlike that years ago; others said they thought it would be a neatexperiment. Just about everyone said "why not?" so I gave it a try. As promised, I took several pictures of the rod and put them up on aWeb site for all to see. (As a side note, I sure wish others would dopublish photos of their rods so I could see the quality and styles ofothers' rods--I'm really trying to improve with each rod.) Check out http://www.hamiltonrods.com/TwoTone/ to see the pictures. I'm a hobbyist (i.e. non-professional) builder, and I must say thatalternating the color of the strips is something everyone should try.Not necessarily for it's cosmetic appeal--although I do find theresult attractive--but because it really accentuates the limitationsin your planing and straightening skills :) I learned a lot frombuilding this rod. --Steve from timklein@qwest.net Mon Jan 8 23:33:03 2001 f095X2I06823 (63.225.240.186) Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT! Sorry, I should have mentioned that it didn't look like it actually cameTHROUGH the list. I was thinking that it might have come from a listmembers address book. Idon't get much personal e-mail except from listmembers. ---Tim from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jan 9 07:54:15 2001 f09DsDI10907 Subject: Re: Quality question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0529_01C07A19.BE8C7120 I know him well and he is one of the most knowledgeable people when it =comes to bamboo rods. If he says they are over priced then I'd take it =as gospel. Paul Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:55 PMSubject: Quality question Anyone know dana gray?I was bidding on some restored bamboo fly rods and He sent me this = allot of discussion in the bamboo community about how Macsrods and = other people and they all start at 500 and go up to 3000. So I was = wondering if the bamboo rod community regularly gave reviews = Macsrods ? I'd like to join in because he (dana gray)has never = unsolicited email . The return address he gives is false. ------=_NextPart_000_0529_01C07A19.BE8C7120 I know him well and he is one of the = knowledgeable people when it comes to bamboo rods. If he says they are = priced then I'd take it as gospel. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Rex= Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001= PMSubject: Quality question restored bamboo fly rods and He sent me this elitist tirade = rod I was bidding on . He said there was allot of discussion = bamboo community about how Macsrods and his fly rods were over= rods , 1 graphite and two bamboo . I went over and saw the = I purchased them. They are good rods. I really like the = tried to buy a bamboo from other people and they all start at = regularly gave reviews because I did not see one nor see = that Dana says is talking up Macsrods ? I'd like to join in = (dana gray)has never seen Macsrods according to Rich . I = to let Dana know I am going to report him to eBay for = false. ------=_NextPart_000_0529_01C07A19.BE8C7120-- from james_gonzalez@med.unc.edu Tue Jan 9 08:00:53 2001 f09E0qI11225 JAA02483; 09:04:25 -0500 Subject: listproc@mail.wustl.edu How do I unsubscribe from listproc@mail.wustl.edu? from dhaftel@att.com Tue Jan 9 09:36:49 2001 f09FamI14896 f09Fah509764; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: listproc@mail.wustl.edu To unsubscribe to the list send an email to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu withthe word "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body. That should do it. Good luck, Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: listproc@mail.wustl.edu How do I unsubscribe from listproc@mail.wustl.edu? from rgelder@excite.ca Tue Jan 9 09:39:29 2001 f09FdSI15129 Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy? Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Jan 9 09:41:29 2001 f09FfSI15324 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were looking atwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy? Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 09:58:23 2001 f09FwMI16393 2001 07:58:22 PST Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes ron, i know on wood sandpaper tends to open the grainand steel wool tends to close the grain as inburnishing or boning. maybe that is part of the issue.maybe it doesn't penetrate or stick as good. like youtho' i prep my cane with steel wool also. 75 yrs fromnow they'll all be saying what bums we were for doingit all wrong. yep, yep! timothy --- RON ELDER wrote:I was out looking at different finishes to use in mydip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, themanufacturers of various productsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody know why? Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and thenapply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have goodresults? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and reallylike the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from rmcelvain@uswest.net Tue Jan 9 10:07:59 2001 f09G7wI17032 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.4.102) Subject: Virus Remover There is a free virus check/remover on the web at www.antivirus.com/ which works for me. I got a virus file last week from the list, I didn't open it, but it was a virus. This web based company checks your computer while on-line at their web site, nothing to download. Go to Home User, then to Free Virus Scan. If you give them your E-mail address then they send you a monthly virus alert letter, but you can use their service without giving them this information. What I like about it is that the virus scan is always updated to the latest virus. No financial interest, blah-blah-blah. Bob McElvain from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 9 10:21:29 2001 f09GLSI17753 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it to preventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinner afterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were looking atwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from owen@davies.mv.com Tue Jan 9 10:22:09 2001 f09GM8I17859 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes James Piotrowski observed: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were looking atwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. What about fine Scotch-Brite? Owen Davies from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Tue Jan 9 10:47:21 2001 f09GlKI19026 Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:47:12 -0500 9 Jan 2001 11:33:53 -0500 Subject: RE: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Hey Guys, Tony is right on. Steel wool has an oil coating to prevent it from rusting.It makes it combustible too. The oil in steel wool makes it a fairly goodfire starter. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinner afterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were looking atwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 9 11:00:17 2001 f09H0GI19656 Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:00:14 -0500 "GROMBACHERA@phibred.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: RE: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Al / Tony Although some steel wool (the kind you get at your local hardware store) has oil on it - there is some that is used in refinishingthat doesn't - you can find one such example in Woodworkers Supplyand now marketed under Moser's brand name. I buy it by the roll and have had no problems with it and it doesn't seem to rust either. The phone number is 1-800-645-9292 and the part number is 926-614 for a one pound roll of #0000 oil free steel wool for those who are interested. Chris On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:33:45 -0600, Grombacher, Alan wrote: Hey Guys, Tony is right on. Steel wool has an oil coating to prevent it from rusting.It makes it combustible too. The oil in steel wool makes it a fairly goodfire starter. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 3:35 AMCc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinner afterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were looking atwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 11:02:38 2001 f09H2cI19925 2001 09:02:38 PST Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes mike, i do that too. but then i,ve been called asafetyman. ...wear both belt and suspenders. and iwipe down my blanks with alcohol. :>) timothy --- mike wrote:Ron, from what I have gathered, using steel wool is notrecommended because someof the steel wool may get imbedded in the grain and, if not removed, mayrust and thereby spoiling the finish. Tim says thathe uses it withouttrouble, so I guess it is a tossup! I use onlysandpaper myself, but I havesandpaper that goes down to 2000 grit.Mike----- Original Message ----- From: timothy troester Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 10:58 AMSubject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes ron, i know on wood sandpaper tends to open thegrainand steel wool tends to close the grain as inburnishing or boning. maybe that is part of theissue.maybe it doesn't penetrate or stick as good. likeyoutho' i prep my cane with steel wool also. 75 yrsfromnow they'll all be saying what bums we were fordoingit all wrong. yep, yep! timothy --- RON ELDER wrote:I was out looking at different finishes to usein mydip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, themanufacturers of various productsrecommend not prepping the surface with steelwool.Does anybody know why?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool andthenapply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have goodresults? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil andreallylike the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Jan 9 11:55:15 2001 f09HtEI21959 MAA24554; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Duke University Medical Center Subject: brass or bronze wool for finishes. Using steel wool has always been a no-no for wooden boat, because anyleftoversteel will rust and discolor. Most use brass wool (same thing as steel wool,but made from brass) instead of sandpaper for the filling properties insteadofsandpaper..dws. from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 11:57:27 2001 f09HvQI22165 2001 09:57:22 PST Subject: Paul Young Midge Taper Questions This one is probably next up for me. First question: how does thiswork as a 3-piece rather than 2-piece and did you make anyadjustments other than hexrod would? Second question: Would it workto maintain the taper as is, but just add 3" to make it 6'6" andsignificatnly swell that 3"? (so, the rod is like an origianl PYM,but attached to a swelled 3" extension). TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan 9 12:04:33 2001 f09I4WI22623 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: HL Leonard Tournament Specs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C07A21.A6C965E0 I have 3 of them... what is the OD of the male butt ferrule. You can simplyuse an inexpensive ferrule hidden in the cork grip for a banty handle. Idon't think I'd spend the bucks for a original ferrule. That is a great idea as the rods have fine tips and might make a great bantyrod while retaining it's originality. I might build one myself now that you mention it... Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 7:47 PM Subject: HL Leonard Tournament Specs Anyone have a lead on refinish specs for a 9 1/2' 3/2 HL Leonard"Tournament"? Dick Spurr suggested a Martin Keane book, but noted that it is out ofprint. Something like Mike Sinclair's rod reconditioning and reference bookwould be ideal. Also, I would like to make an independent handle for the rod. Anyone knoeof a source for a butt female ferrule, or a scrap tournament butt section? Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C07A21.A6C965E0 I have = ferrule hidden in the cork grip for a banty handle. I don't think I'd = That = as the rods have fine tips and might make a great banty rod while = originality. I = myself now that you mention it... Darrell GriffinJohnSent: Monday, January 08, 2001 7:47 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: HL Leonard SpecsAnyone have a lead on refinish specs = Dick Spurr suggested a Martin Keane = reconditioning and reference book would be ideal. Also, I would like to make an = scrap tournament butt section? Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C07A21.A6C965E0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 9 12:10:32 2001 f09IAVI23002 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Alan,I had forgotten about that, we used to use it as a fire starter when I was inBoy Scouts. Man, that was years ago.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Grombacher, Alan" wrote: Hey Guys, Tony is right on. Steel wool has an oil coating to prevent it from rusting.It makes it combustible too. The oil in steel wool makes it a fairly goodfire starter. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 3:35 AMCc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinner afterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were looking atwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybodyknowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 9 12:26:00 2001 f09IPxI23637 Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:25:58 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Chris,The last 0000 that I got does say oil free but I still wipe the blank down withthinner to be sure.I do know gun stock finishers stay away from steel wool. If precautions aretakenit will not bother the final finish. Personally I have used it on all my woodwork steelwool had oil in it Now I mow always wipe with thinner before applying anyfinishNever gave it a thought about rusting, I guess if it is not cleaned well thatwould happen. I did learn something from this tread, be sure there are noparticles left when you get ready to put the finish on..Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Chris Bogart wrote: Al / Tony Although some steel wool (the kind you get at your localhardware store) has oil on it - there is some that is used in refinishingthat doesn't - you can find one such example in Woodworkers Supplyand now marketed under Moser's brand name. I buy it by the roll andhave had no problems with it and it doesn't seem to rust either. The phonenumber is 1-800-645-9292 and the part number is 926-614 for aone pound roll of #0000 oil free steel wool for those who are interested. Chris On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:33:45 -0600, Grombacher, Alan wrote: Hey Guys, Tony is right on. Steel wool has an oil coating to prevent it from rusting.It makes it combustible too. The oil in steel wool makes it a fairly goodfire starter. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 3:35 AMCc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinner afterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were looking atwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybodyknowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I preparedmyearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from CALucker@aol.com Tue Jan 9 13:09:37 2001 f09J9ae24996 Subject: Re: Milling Machine picture sources In a message dated 1/5/01 5:05:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,cadams46@juno.com writes: I'm sorry I took so long to post this list, but here we go. This is a bit long, but it notes all the milling machine photos I have looked at over the years as I have built my own rough and finish mills. catalogs. The Winston movie has shots of the old mill and the new mill. The Spring 1992 Classic Chronical has great photos of the Payne beveler and other equipment. The 1976 Leonard catalog has a picture of the new Leonard beveler. Thesame photos were reproduced in Harmon Henkin/Dick Eggert's guide on fishingtackle. Rod and Reel Magazine in January/Feb 1989 gave us great photos ofCarpenter's Thomas beveler and other stuff. American Express Platinum Card Magazine called Departures gave us moreshots of Carpenter's shop in April/May 1992 -- also text on Gary Howells andothers. Photos of the old Orvis mill may be seen in the 1956 Orvis catalog (and many other years, I suspect) and the February 1958 Field and Stream article by Cecil Heacox called "Bamboo Aristiocrats" shows the mill too. The Spring 1974 Orvis catalog is my favorite for photos of the new Orvis Mill because it is the only catalog I know of that shows in great detail the cutters and the means of setting the pattern on the new mill. Other Oris catalogs have photos of the mill, but not these great shots. The Wes Jordan book by I forgot whom has a great shot of the old SouthBend mill that is distictly similar to the old Orvis Mill and Pinky Gillum's mill. See Pinky's mill in Marty Keane's book. A 1982 Pezon et Michel catalog show how dangerously the French rodbuilders choose to use machinery to make rods. Gives me the creeps to look. Ron Kusse's 1982 booklet (maybe others too) has pen and ink drawings of his simple finish mill and other tools. A photo I looked at for a long long time to figure out what function each part performed appears in the 1982 Thomas and Thomas catalog -- page 36. I think thi is the old Montague machine or something T&T got from Amherst. It has a lot going on, but show that you may use dead weight as an alternative to spring pressure -- interesting. The photo will also give you some ideas about automatic feeds and cams. There is a photo of the new T&T in somebook that came out about five years ago. The book is about fishing craftsmen.My favorite rodmaker is EC Powell. His design of rod building saw may be seen in many places, such a Martin Keane's book; Jack Parker's Feb 1979 article in Flyfishing in the West about Tony Maslan; the 1989 green booklet produced by Walton Powell called Essays on Fly Fishing By EC Powell; the December 1969 9Vol VII, number 1) publication by the Flyfishers Club of Oregon called "the Creel" features an article about EC Powell expert and friend Lee Richardson; Walton' brochures from the late 1970's to early1980's showed him using a Powell saw. The 6th issue of the Planing Form shows Bob Milward's router-based mill that orkd kinda-sorta like a Powell saw in that it tapers one side of a strip. The Best of The Planing Form also has the same article (also my plans for a dual action binder along the lines of EC Powell's and Winston's and Dickerson's). The Dickerson Mill when owned by Tim Bedford is shown in detail in the Spring and Summer 1985 issues of the American Flyfisher. The same mill owned byJim Schaaf is shown in the Spring and Summer 1990 issues of the American Flyfisher. Much of the same info and then again much more is in Dr. Jerry Strein's fabulous book on Dickerson. Get the book. Dick Spurr and Sinclair did a great job showing us Granger's mills, Arend's mill and the mill that Bob's Tackle was selling ten yeasr go built by the guy who's name starts with D in their book Colorado Classic Cane. Get the book. Dick Spurr's book about Rodmakers Past and Present is great for photos ofAl Talbot's mill (just like Winston' mill), and other stuff. It may even show a hot of Bob Summer's converted surface grinder -- maybe not, I can'tremember. I think you see a good shot of Wier cutting slits in his ferrules -- a photo that came from the Wier catalogs in the 1980's. Ray Gould's book Constructing Cane Rods shows the Ed Hartzell mill and other stuff. Good book. Get it. The Book, Wes Jordan, Portrait of a Rodmaker has the great photo I referred to earlier -- the South Bend mill that looks like the old Orvis and Pinky Gillum and so many other mills. And of course Martin Keane's book Classic Rods and Rodmakers is very important to have. great Leonard saw for cutting strips out of a culm. This is not a table saw but is a small circular saw with an automatic feed. It cuts from above. It is an easy design to use, although I don't use it myself anymore. But if you really want to see what a mill looks like, go to a machine shop and watch a horizontal milling machine work. Better yet if it is CNC. Then watch a surface grinder. Simly watch these tools and you will know what to do to make your milling machine for bamboo. My advice, don't reinvent the wheel. Get a good used surface grinder and convert it. Or put servos on a Williams and Hussey Moulder/Planer. Sorry about the puncuation, and probably the spelling. I did not proof or do a very good job of delineating titles or publications. Chris Lucker from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Jan 9 13:14:05 2001 f09JE4e25316 Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:13:59 -0800 Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Magzine Hi all,I have seen several post recently in regards to the magazines status andhave not seen a definitive answer. Maybe I missed it. Anyway, I sent in ane-mail request (no money) for a subscription and received the followingreply. Richard,Thank you for your subscription request. The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine iscurrently not publishing, however we expect to publish again in the middleof this year. We will add your information to our subscriber list andautomatically send you our next published issue. Please visit our back issuepages if you desire to have a complete set of our publication.http://www.THEBAMBOOFLYROD.COM/bfr/back_issues.htmThank you againTBFR Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from HallowellMA@atgi.spear.navy.mil Tue Jan 9 14:26:53 2001 f09KQqe29140 Subject: I'm Back Hello to those the know and remember me, Been awhile. To give you the short version I have had 3 surgeries on myarms and now look at retirement from the US Navy after 25 years on March30th. Job hunting is slow and getting in for the interview is even slower.Hope everyone is doing ok since I was last on. Have not been able to builtany bamboo rods, due to my arms. Have started making and repairingjewelryand having fun at it since it seems to produce only a small amount of pain.You can contact me at this address until the end of March or use flyrod6@juno.com Still in Corpus Christi, Texas and love the weather. Just looking at allthe snow you all are getting makes me cold. Saltwater fishing is fun, butstill haven't broke the code on it yet. Just have to keep going!!! Wish all a prosperous New Year and many blessings. Mark Hallowell from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Jan 9 15:01:33 2001 f09L1We01007 Subject: John Bokstroms e-mail? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C07A88.BB23CB40 I need to contact John Bokstrom.Can anyone provide his e-mail address?Thx regards, Carsten Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C07A88.BB23CB40 I need to contact John =Bokstrom.Can anyone provide his e-mail =address?Thx regards, Carsten =Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C07A88.BB23CB40-- from anglport@con2.com Tue Jan 9 15:12:40 2001 f09LCde01578 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Do others of you get the answers before the questions on the list? This ishappening VERY often. I read the solutions (often several of them) and thenfind the question way down the list, sometimes on a later day! Is my ISPscrewing me over or is that just a function of the main server for the list?Thanks,Art At 07:39 AM 01/09/2001 -0800, RON ELDER wrote:I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy? Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Jan 9 15:49:40 2001 f09Lnde03728 Subject: Re: Paul Young Midge Taper Questions Hi ,I just finished a PYM the one marty posted (thanks Marty) .I made it in the 6' 6" length nice rod. Also made my first reel seat out of black walnut not bad but not close to Venneri's reel seats. Tom from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 9 16:56:19 2001 f09MuIe06701 Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:56:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes It is all about time zones the senders are in that they put on the localtime on their email. Now you know why the military uses Zulu (GMT) foreverything. Chris On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:11:58 -0500, Art Port wrote: Do others of you get the answers before the questions on the list? This ishappening VERY often. I read the solutions (often several of them) and thenfind the question way down the list, sometimes on a later day! Is my ISPscrewing me over or is that just a function of the main server for the list?Thanks,Art At 07:39 AM 01/09/2001 -0800, RON ELDER wrote:I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy? Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 9 19:16:23 2001 f0A1GMe10177 Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:16:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Milling Machine picture sources Chris,Wow, what a post. Thank you for all your hard work in putting thiswonderfullist together. This is the kind of effort that really makes the RodmakersListsomething special. Harry Boyd CALucker@aol.com wrote: I'm sorry I took so long to post this list, but here we go. This is a bitlong, but it notes all the milling machine photos I have looked at over theyears as I have built my own rough and finish mills. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jan 9 20:17:58 2001 f0A2Hve11100 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:21:34 -0800 Subject: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins f0A2Hwe11103 Can you impregnate bamboo blanks with this stuff? And if so, will it makethem 30% lighter, stronger, and faster then the competition. Thanks. Chris from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Jan 9 20:33:24 2001 f0A2XNe11455 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins No, but I'm working on a secret method to inject helium into the pores ofbamboo to achieve light weight and improved line speed. The only problem isthat all of my test samples have floated away .... I'm going to leave thelist soon to work on this secret process, but I'll come back periodically toflaunt my superiority and run down every one elses efforts, just like a truemaster craftsman should! ;^) Brian from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jan 9 20:38:49 2001 f0A2cme11681 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Horricks-Ibbotson Black River 8' 6" Richard,Odd as this may seem, I have an old Black River in the Garage that afriend brought me to restore. It's down to bare cane and can measure it andsend you the dimensions. Give me a day or two... just got back from aFANTASTIC day of bending cane on trout in NW Arkansas and have to go tothelocal pub and humiliate my friends with the fishing stories! *S* Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Horricks-Ibbotson Black River 8' 6" Hello Guys, This is my nomination for question of the year. I would like to findthedimensions for a H-I, Black River. This is a combination/convertible, flyrod, and casting rod. It has a cigar grip with down locking reel seat. Thebutt section is 26" long with out the grip. For casting it has a 36" tipthat fits directly to the butt making it a 5 1/2' casting rod. This is thepiece I am missing. As a fly rod, it has a 36" mid-section, and a 36" tip-section whichmakes it an 8 1/2 ' for a 6 weight line. If anyone has the actual dimensionit would help me to determine if all the pieces are original and topossiblereconstruct the casting tip. Old catalog pictures and specifications wouldbe very helpful. I know I could probably build a new rod with superior qualities for thesame amount of effort I will expend on this project but, I have the rod andfeel the need to bring it back into use. Something kind of special aboutoldbamboo. It would be like turning your back on an old fisherman that needshelp navigating the river bank. Anyway, the usual thanks in advance guys, Iknow you will give it some thought. Best regards,DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 9 20:39:35 2001 f0A2dZe11767 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Al Medved's beveller Al Medved or anyone who has knowledge of this rough beveller, I havethe machine partially built and was wondering about the feed troughmechanism. looks as if the plexi glass is attached to the trough and through thespring loaded tension arms which attach to the aluminum back plate. Myquestion is, if the Plexiglas is rigidly bolted through the arms to theback plate and is also screwed to the trough then how can you adjust thetrough up and down .Also why the second adjusting screw next to the long one?? Any helpwould be appreciated,ShawnP.S If anyone else builds this make sure you check the clearance of yourrouter for the given dimensions. I have to remove one handle and rotatethe router clockwise, luckily I hadn't drilled the router attachingholes yet :^) from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Jan 9 21:11:06 2001 f0A3B5e12568 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu In a message dated 01/09/2001 7:34:03 PM PDT, piscator@macatawa.orgwrites: HEY!I was going to do that!Mike from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jan 9 21:22:17 2001 f0A3MGe12882 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:22:19 -0600 Subject: Off the subject... kind of... Guys,While this isn't directly related to rodmaking, had to post it. My soncalled me Sunday and wanted the Old Man to come to Fayetteville, AR, spendthe night with him and fish the Beaver Lake Tailwaters today (for those whodon't know this area, its a part of the White River System in NorthwestArkansas).Got there last night, spent the night, we got up had coffee, talked abit, got a late start, and ended up on the river by about 11am. By noon, Ihad caught nothing but 2 brookies in the 5 to 6 inch range. from noon toone... nothing at all, then about 1, the hatch from heaven started comingoff. Super tiny BWO's about a 28. I didn't even own, and certainly can'tsee well enough to tie a dry that small, so I just started going through mymidges until I found something that worked. First fish was on abrassie....as were about the next 5 or 6... in about 20 minutes. I hadgiven my only three brassies other than the one I was using, to my son whowas downstream a bit tearing up a honey hole of his own. Looked throughthemidge box again and came up with a Green Bug ( I don't know what the rightname for this fly is, but it's just like a beadhead brassie tied with greenwire instead of copper), size 26, and it was time to hang on. Nick, my son,came upstream, and just watched, as (by his count) I caught 8 rainbows in 8casts. One of them was about a 16 inch fish that didn't look like hebelonged in the South. This fish was colored like the ones burned in mymemories from Montana, Wyoming, Idaho... a beautiful fish, but definitelynot typical of what I generally had caught in this river.Nick went on to catch about a dozen fish in a three hour period, and,again, by his count, said he sat on a rock on the bank watching me stalk andsight cast to rising fish in this pool and land somewhere over 20 rainbows.All in less than 3 hours. That doesn't include the LDR's, of which therewere many.With one exception, not one of the fish ever left the water. Ireleased all in the water trying not to even touch them. Unfortunatly, theone exception was the finest fish of the day, who made one last acrobaticmove right in my face, trying to shake the fly. Doing that, he also wrappedtipped around his head and I had to pull him from the water long enough toget him "unroped" then release him.Without a doubt, the best day I have ever had in the Beaver Tailwaterssection of the White, and about the second best day I've had in Arkansasaltogether.I guess we can, in a way, make this a bit relative to rodmaking... allthe fish were caught on a 6' 4 wt cane rod! THAT made the day better yet!*S* Later,Big Head Bob from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jan 9 21:29:44 2001 f0A3Tie13135 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:29:46 -0600 Subject: Fw: Off the subject... kind of... Sorry, addendum to the prior post. I BCC'd this to my son and heimmediately sent me a message, reminding me that all of MY fish were on a6'4wt cane, all of his were on his 6'9" 2wt that I made him slave over in theshop! Figured since he wasn't going to pay me, he could push the plane abit! LOL Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Off the subject... kind of... Guys,While this isn't directly related to rodmaking, had to post it. My soncalled me Sunday and wanted the Old Man to come to Fayetteville, AR, spendthe night with him and fish the Beaver Lake Tailwaters today (for those whodon't know this area, its a part of the White River System in NorthwestArkansas).Got there last night, spent the night, we got up had coffee, talked abit, got a late start, and ended up on the river by about 11am. By noon, Ihad caught nothing but 2 brookies in the 5 to 6 inch range. from noon toone... nothing at all, then about 1, the hatch from heaven started comingoff. Super tiny BWO's about a 28. I didn't even own, and certainly can'tsee well enough to tie a dry that small, so I just started going through mymidges until I found something that worked. First fish was on abrassie....as were about the next 5 or 6... in about 20 minutes. I hadgiven my only three brassies other than the one I was using, to my son whowas downstream a bit tearing up a honey hole of his own. Looked throughthemidge box again and came up with a Green Bug ( I don't know what the rightname for this fly is, but it's just like a beadhead brassie tied with greenwire instead of copper), size 26, and it was time to hang on. Nick, myson,came upstream, and just watched, as (by his count) I caught 8 rainbows in 8casts. One of them was about a 16 inch fish that didn't look like hebelonged in the South. This fish was colored like the ones burned in mymemories from Montana, Wyoming, Idaho... a beautiful fish, but definitelynot typical of what I generally had caught in this river.Nick went on to catch about a dozen fish in a three hour period, and,again, by his count, said he sat on a rock on the bank watching me stalkandsight cast to rising fish in this pool and land somewhere over 20 rainbows.All in less than 3 hours. That doesn't include the LDR's, of which therewere many.With one exception, not one of the fish ever left the water. Ireleased all in the water trying not to even touch them. Unfortunatly, theone exception was the finest fish of the day, who made one last acrobaticmove right in my face, trying to shake the fly. Doing that, he alsowrappedtipped around his head and I had to pull him from the water long enough toget him "unroped" then release him.Without a doubt, the best day I have ever had in the Beaver Tailwaterssection of the White, and about the second best day I've had in Arkansasaltogether.I guess we can, in a way, make this a bit relative to rodmaking... allthe fish were caught on a 6' 4 wt cane rod! THAT made the day better yet!*S* Later,Big Head Bob from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Jan 9 21:33:08 2001 f0A3X8e13325 Subject: Re: Off the subject... kind of... In a message dated 01/09/2001 8:23:06 PM PDT, caneman@clnk.comwrites: Dear BHB,A fine day! Made even better fishing with your son.Mike from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Jan 9 22:45:28 2001 f0A4jPe14677 f0A4jCx00564; Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Organization: vet Tony Somone on this list a couple of months ago, or maybe it was 6 months,suggested the use of the 3M abrasive pads as used by auto body shops as asubstitute for metallic wool. In this country they are available in three grades (the finest usually onlyon special order), and I have found then really useful in those situationsin which I would usually use steel wool. They are as cheap as chips here, can be cut to size, and they do sit prettywell on a flat block for keeping corners sharp while rubbing down. Other major benefits are that it allows you to choose your level ofabrasiveness and to change it at will; the stuff does not clog up, and if itdoes clog a little bit you can just give it a thump and knock all the dustright out of it; and because you can trim it, you can use it for some fairlyfiddly little bits. Also, obviously, no little ferrous bits left on the job. The only disadvantages I have found are that you have to go to the body shopsuppliers to buy it, which may be a bit of a worry for some, depending wherethey live; and that your wife tends to pinch the brown grade to use as apotscrubber. Stay healthy Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinnerafterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were lookingatwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and whenIwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybodyknowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smoothfinishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Jan 9 23:30:20 2001 f0A5UIe15635 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:29:07 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) flytyr@southshore.com Subject: RE: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Hi Pete,you're absolutely right about the many uses of those 3M pads butyou obviously haven't trained your wife properly. My girlfriend and herlittle darlings would rather pierce their eyeballs with red hot needles thantouch any of my rodmaking gear. I've convinced them all that the devilhimself will wreak vengeance on anyone who even contemplates such an act:) Potscrubbers indeed!!Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Tony Somone on this list a couple of months ago, or maybe it was 6 months,suggested the use of the 3M abrasive pads as used by auto body shops as asubstitute for metallic wool. In this country they are available in three grades (the finest usually onlyon special order), and I have found then really useful in those situationsin which I would usually use steel wool. They are as cheap as chips here, can be cut to size, and they do sit prettywell on a flat block for keeping corners sharp while rubbing down. Other major benefits are that it allows you to choose your level ofabrasiveness and to change it at will; the stuff does not clog up, and if itdoes clog a little bit you can just give it a thump and knock all the dustright out of it; and because you can trim it, you can use it for some fairlyfiddly little bits. Also, obviously, no little ferrous bits left on the job. The only disadvantages I have found are that you have to go to the body shopsuppliers to buy it, which may be a bit of a worry for some, depending wherethey live; and that your wife tends to pinch the brown grade to use as apotscrubber. Stay healthy Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinnerafterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were lookingatwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and whenIwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybodyknowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smoothfinishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from Canerods@aol.com Wed Jan 10 00:20:08 2001 f0A6K7e16470 Subject: Re: I'm Back --part1_26.fa8c587.278d5908_boundary Mark, Deep six the jewelery and buy a cane beveler. Glad to see that you're back. Don Burns --part1_26.fa8c587.278d5908_boundary Mark, you're back. Don Burns --part1_26.fa8c587.278d5908_boundary-- from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jan 10 00:36:11 2001 f0A6aBe16808 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:36:14 -0600 Subject: Fw: Off the subject... kind of... Mike,No doubt that fishing with my oldest son made it a finer day than itwould have been. Actually, I think fishing with my son would have beengreat if we hadn't lifted the rods on a single fish. Spending the night inHIS house, waking up to make coffee in HIS pot, and just talking to him forhours on end, both in his living room and on the stream, would have made ita great day without the fishing... but the fishing... You know, that's whatI do... I fish and I make fly rods. I've had great fishing days in manyplaces, much better days than today, but being there and seeing the look onhis face when I moved him in where I was fishing and showed him where tocast... seeing the excitement in his 22 year old eyes, like he was 3 yrs oldagain, feeling a fish on the line for the first time... those were thethings that made it a truly great day on the river. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:33 PMSubject: Re: Off the subject... kind of... In a message dated 01/09/2001 8:23:06 PM PDT, caneman@clnk.comwrites: the fish were caught on a 6' 4 wt cane rod! THAT made the day betteryet!*S* Later,Big Head Bob >>Dear BHB,A fine day! Made even better fishing with your son.Mike from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 03:02:43 2001 f0A92ge18168 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:02:38 -0800 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:02:38 GMT Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins FILETIME=[14AFEDA0:01C07AE4] From: "Christopher McDowell" Subject: Nano-Titanium enhanced resinsDate: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:21:30 - 0800 Can you impregnate bamboo blanks with this stuff? And if so, will it make them 30% lighter, stronger, and faster then the competition. Thanks. Chris ABSOLUTELY!! It will also clear up a variety of skin conditions, you will be irresistable to female salmonids and as a bonus it makes a great desert topping!!A.J._________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 10 04:32:25 2001 f0AAWOe18918 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:32:19 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Time to start using ventilation when you varnish guys!! ;^)Shawn Christopher McDowell wrote: Can you impregnate bamboo blanks with this stuff? And if so, will it makethem 30% lighter, stronger, and faster then the competition. Thanks. Chris from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Jan 10 05:49:18 2001 f0ABnHe19523 f0ABnIL99319; f0ABnH884990; Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes This thread is getting a little long in the tooth. FWIW I was told, by apretty good amateur furniture maker, that most (poly)urethane finishes arenot compatible with oils. Hence steel wool is risky if the manufacturer sostates. The finish I use specifically recommends steel wooling betweencoats; so I don't worry about it.Jim U I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB from zimmer@adams.net Wed Jan 10 05:54:12 2001 f0ABsCe19731 Subject: Re: Al Medved beveler question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C07ACA.A13D3760 ------=_NextPart_001_004B_01C07ACA.A13D3760 Shawn, the holddown arms are bolted to the plexi and the plexi is =attached to each of the trays. Both trays are independent of the rest of =the apparatus as you will discover as you study the photos. There was a =comment recently that the plexi may not hold up well to the stress that =the holddowns apply to it, but that remains to be seen in my case. The =second adjusting screw establishes a don't go beyond minimum thickness = to. My version of Mr. Medved's rough beveler is a work in progress, so I =cannot give any long term results on it. Hope this helps. Boy! I sure wish I could get out of this snow and go fishin' with Bob =down there in sunny Ark...I've had it with this white crap! ---------------------------------------------------------------------Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_004B_01C07ACA.A13D3760 Shawn, = arms are bolted to the plexi and the plexi is attached to each of the = Both trays are independent of the rest of the apparatus as you will = you study the photos. There was a comment recently that the plexi may = up well to the stress that the holddowns apply to it, but that remains = seen in my case. The second adjusting screw establishes a don't go = minimum thickness for your cane strip as you bevel down to whatever size = wish to cut to. My version of Mr. Medved's rough beveler is a work in = helps. Boy! I = Ark...I've had it with this white crap! ----------------------------------------------------------------= Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_004B_01C07ACA.A13D3760-- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C07ACA.A13D3760 name="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" filename="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Zimmerman;RandallFN:Randy ZimmermanORG:Zimmerman Bros., Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:217-285- 2196ADR;WORK:;;118 N. Monroe;Pittsfield;Il.;62363LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:118 N. =Monroe=3D0D=3D0APittsfield, Il. 62363URL:URL:http://www.zimmermanbros.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:zimmer@adams.netREV:20010110T120027ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C07ACA.A13D3760-- from FlyfishT@aol.com Wed Jan 10 07:38:55 2001 f0ADcse20623 Subject: Re: Al Medved's beveller Hi Shawn,If i understand your question , I just drilled a hole thru the carrier in the back plate and sloted the hole with file . placed a carriage bolt in it and on the other end a plastic knob or wing nut . Now the one side is ajustable. A tip ,you might want to add make a 3 sided box (made out of lexan) atatch it to carrier make a hole on the back side of base attach a tube and hook up a vacum. Now it will keep the carrier clean and also keep your fingers safer. I put roller bearings on my hold down bars.If your make your similar as the one in the planing form book then you could also make a taperad carrier for it .That is my next step when i get a chance in a few weeks. Hope this helps. Tom from zimmer@adams.net Wed Jan 10 08:53:35 2001 f0AErYe22624 Subject: RE: Sorry about font This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C07AE3.B0DE56E0 ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C07AE3.B0DE56E0 Sorry, I didnt realize I had that in red, Jerry....Randy .----------------------------- ----------------------------------------Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C07AE3.B0DE56E0 .------------------------------------------------------------= Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C07AE3.B0DE56E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C07AE3.B0DE56E0 name="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" filename="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Zimmerman;RandallFN:Randy ZimmermanORG:Zimmerman Bros., Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:217-285- 2196ADR;WORK:;;118 N. Monroe;Pittsfield;Il.;62363LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:118 N. =Monroe=3D0D=3D0APittsfield, Il. 62363URL:URL:http://www.zimmermanbros.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:zimmer@adams.netREV:20010110T145950ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C07AE3.B0DE56E0-- from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Wed Jan 10 10:36:25 2001 f0AGaOe28629 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:37:54 -0500 Subject: RE: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Hi Chris, Took a look at this on the Redington site and my first thought was that theexplanation didn't explain the process well enough to be believable, I maybe wrong about this. As many things that are raved about time will prove ifthe mouse trap works. If you like this go to Lamiglass site and read abouttitanium mat. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker-----Original Message----- McDowell Subject: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Can you impregnate bamboo blanks with this stuff? And if so, will it makethem 30% lighter, stronger, and faster then the competition. Thanks. Chris from jhewittiii@springsips.com Wed Jan 10 10:39:32 2001 f0AGdVe28864 springsips.com) (63.29.89.180) Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Art,Happens to me all the time, and has for years...Don't know if it's solvableor not...John Art Port wrote: Do others of you get the answers before the questions on the list? This ishappening VERY often. I read the solutions (often several of them) andthenfind the question way down the list, sometimes on a later day! Is my ISPscrewing me over or is that just a function of the main server for the list?Thanks,Art At 07:39 AM 01/09/2001 -0800, RON ELDER wrote:I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and when Iwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybody knowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I prepared myearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smooth finishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from if6were9@bellsouth.net Wed Jan 10 10:48:01 2001 f0AGm0e29659 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins You laugh, but (IMHO) the reason we are seeing so many "new" ways to saygraphite is that plain ole graphite is close to going the way of bamboo andfiberglass. It's about time for something new to replace it as the standardmaterial for production rods. Simple Graphite has past the point (about5 or 6 years ago) of being able to make "new and improved" compounds forrods without additives. It's really no different than all the ratherstrange combinations of bamboo strips, or bamboo and other woods, thatbegan to show up not long before (bamboo) was retired in favor offiberglass.The general public had outgrown the standard rod material and when it couldnot be improved upon, it was replaced. The same happened to fiberglasswith the advent of the early graphite/glass composites. This thing oftrotting out a "new and improved" version of whatever was the previousstandard is not new, manufactures simply started forcing the cycle, ratherthan waiting for a sales slump to "improve" their product. Every majorblank manufacturer is currently working on some type of hybridgraphite/titanium blank, and several have already put their concepts intoproduction.Like any "new" material, the cost is astronomical. Simply using the word"titanium" is enough to double the price, or so it seems in otherindustries where this material has replaced other lightweight alloys as thestandard production material. from zimmer@adams.net Wed Jan 10 10:50:16 2001 f0AGoFe00039 Subject: Re: Al Medved Beveler; Timothy Troester location This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C07AF3.FD794A40 ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C07AF3.FD794A40 Timothy, actually I live in Pittsfield, 70 miles w. on I72 from =Springfield. I had no idea there was a fly shop in Springfield! What and =where is it??? I'm over there all the time! I'll stop in and see you. =sorry for the bandwidth, list, but there's not much on now.---------------------------------- -----------------------------------Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C07AF3.FD794A40 Timothy, actually I live in Pittsfield, 70 miles w. on I72 = Springfield. I had no idea there was a fly shop in Springfield! What and = the bandwidth, list, but there's not much on now.---------------------------------- --------------------------= Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C07AF3.FD794A40-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C07AF3.FD794A40 name="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" filename="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Zimmerman;RandallFN:Randy ZimmermanORG:Zimmerman Bros., Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:217-285- 2196ADR;WORK:;;118 N. Monroe;Pittsfield;Il.;62363LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:118 N. =Monroe=3D0D=3D0APittsfield, Il. 62363URL:URL:http://www.zimmermanbros.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:zimmer@adams.netREV:20010110T165631ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C07AF3.FD794A40-- from zimmer@adams.net Wed Jan 10 10:58:48 2001 f0AGwke00938 Subject: Re; off subject to Timothy Troester This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C07AF5.2EC1C180 ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C07AF5.2EC1C180 Sorry, I forgot to answer your question. I primarily fish trout in =Colorado.That's where one ste of kids are (near Grant, Co. southwest of =Denver) , I've been fortunate enuf to fish quite a lot around Rocky Mtn. =National Park the last couple of years, and Im learning the territory =around the North Fork of the South Platte now where they work on some =ranches. Dont flyfish much in the midwest anymore....I'll stop and see =you for a visit one of these days if you'll let me know where your shop =is...Randy---------------------------------------------------------------------Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C07AF5.2EC1C180 Sorry, I forgot to answer your question. I primarily fish = Denver) , I've been fortunate enuf to fish quite a lot around Rocky Mtn. = National Park the last couple of years, and Im learning the territory = North Fork of the South Platte now where they work on some ranches. Dont= much in the midwest anymore....I'll stop and see you for a visit one = these days if you'll let me know where your shop =is...Randy--------------------- ---------------------------------------= Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01C07AF5.2EC1C180-- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C07AF5.2EC1C180 name="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" filename="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Zimmerman;RandallFN:Randy ZimmermanORG:Zimmerman Bros., Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:217-285- 2196ADR;WORK:;;118 N. Monroe;Pittsfield;Il.;62363LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:118 N. =Monroe=3D0D=3D0APittsfield, Il. 62363URL:URL:http://www.zimmermanbros.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:zimmer@adams.netREV:20010110T170503ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C07AF5.2EC1C180-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 10 11:15:09 2001 f0AHF6e02351 Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:14:46 +0800 Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:14:43 +0800 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu What you say about titanium doubling prices sounds right, though I know themetal itself is not easy to machine and that has to be taken into account.At about the time the USSR blew out and began disintegrating in a big waythe rock climbing and mountaineering scene suddenly saw a lot of US &British Al (7076) hardware being copied and made from titanium in Russia.I asked the guy in Russia we were dealing with what was it with all thetitanium and I was told the USSR had been into it for quite a long time formuch the same uses as we've been using Al so they're pretty up on ways ofmachining and fabrication etc with it and all the titanium they were usingis coming from scraped Migs so it's dirt cheap.Knowing the Russian habit of using double speak has been refined to an artform I took his answer to mean he and a few friends had stolen adecommissioned nuke sub, put the crew to work dismantling it for a piece ofthe action and were bit by bit selling the evidence any way they could.Maybe he was telling the truth, either way I'd think titanium is stillcheap and easy to get there but may be worth putting a Geiger counter overit before taking delivery, just in case anybody was interested. Tony blank manufacturer is currently working on some type of hybridgraphite/titanium blank, and several have already put their concepts intoproduction.>Like any "new" material, the cost is astronomical. Simply usingthe word"titanium" is enough to double the price, or so it seems in otherindustries where this material has replaced other lightweight alloys asthe standard production material. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 10 14:55:48 2001 f0AKtle11304 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Nah, Chris,What you want to do is infuse them with hydrogen or helium. That'llmake'em lighter-than-air (or at least lighter-than-cane).Art At 06:21 PM 01/09/2001 -0800, Christopher McDowell wrote:Can you impregnate bamboo blanks with this stuff? And if so, will it makethem 30% lighter, stronger, and faster then the competition. Thanks. Chris from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Jan 10 15:11:26 2001 f0ALBPe11993 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Green Cane Guys, Have you ever seen this - the cane has been stored in my basement for 18years. Was doing the finishing planing and upon enamel removal I found thatthe cane underneath the enamel was light green - not a constant green butin splotches. It's not water marked - seen enough of that in 20 years - this is something different. Don't know how deep the green went. Took about0.010" off with the scraper and decided to quit. The green was less but notgone.And also on one of the tip strips, there was a large pitch pocket about0.050 wide and 0.050 deep by about 1.5" long. This was located under a nodeabout 0.080" under the surface. Fortunately, I could plane the pocket out.Still, if it were in a butt strip, I would expect that it could weaken thestrip significantly.Two firsts today - and at least one worked out. The jury is still out onthe other one. The rod is a Payne 198 taper. Don from dhaftel@att.com Wed Jan 10 15:20:47 2001 f0ALKle12396 f0ALKXG23266; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) Subject: RE: Green Cane Don, Sounds like it could be mold. Take a strip or two and do a "break test" tosee if it's been weakened. I'd also move the rest to the attic. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Green Cane Guys, Have you ever seen this - the cane has been stored in my basement for 18years. Was doing the finishing planing and upon enamel removal I found thatthe cane underneath the enamel was light green - not a constant green butin splotches. It's not water marked - seen enough of that in 20 years - this is something different. Don't know how deep the green went. Took about0.010" off with the scraper and decided to quit. The green was less but notgone.And also on one of the tip strips, there was a large pitch pocket about0.050 wide and 0.050 deep by about 1.5" long. This was located under a nodeabout 0.080" under the surface. Fortunately, I could plane the pocket out.Still, if it were in a butt strip, I would expect that it could weaken thestrip significantly.Two firsts today - and at least one worked out. The jury is still out onthe other one. The rod is a Payne 198 taper. Don from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 15:26:20 2001 f0ALQJe12727 2001 13:26:16 PST Subject: RE: Green Cane i've had this in older cane i aquired. the green wentaway when i cooked it. timothy --- "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote:Don, Sounds like it could be mold. Take a strip or twoand do a "break test" tosee if it's been weakened. I'd also move the restto the attic. Dennis -----Original Message-----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:26 PM Subject: Green Cane Guys, Have you ever seen this - the cane has been storedin my basement for 18years. Was doing the finishing planing and uponenamel removal I found thatthe cane underneath the enamel was light green - nota constant green butin splotches. It's not water marked - seen enough ofthat in 20 years -this is something different. Don't know how deep thegreen went. Took about0.010" off with the scraper and decided to quit. Thegreen was less but notgone.And also on one of the tip strips, there was a largepitch pocket about0.050 wide and 0.050 deep by about 1.5" long. Thiswas located under a nodeabout 0.080" under the surface. Fortunately, I couldplane the pocket out.Still, if it were in a butt strip, I would expectthat it could weaken thestrip significantly.Two firsts today - and at least one worked out. Thejury is still out onthe other one. The rod is a Payne 198 taper. Don ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 10 15:44:33 2001 f0ALiWe13597 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Damn it, Tony! Now you tell me! I find a cheap source of Titanium, and justwhen I thought I had the chelation process of Titanium-Bamboo perfected,youhave to bring into question the radioactivity. Man, I've been working only worth: my new hybrid rods will run faster, jump higher, qualify for Mensamembership, are faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than alocomotive, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, and hell yes,they catch more fish, and larger fish, too. Now, all you mere mortals --TAKE THAT! (He wrote with a chortle. Taking another sip of the Laphroaig, hefelt quite satisfied in having sufficiently derided and ridiculed the lowlymasses.) I guess now you'll all want to be spoon-fed my secret process.Don't bother writing. I will only ignore your pitiful pleas. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Knowing the Russian habit of using double speak has been refined to an artform I took his answer to mean he and a few friends had stolen adecommissioned nuke sub, put the crew to work dismantling it for a pieceofthe action and were bit by bit selling the evidence any way they could.Maybe he was telling the truth, either way I'd think titanium is stillcheap and easy to get there but may be worth putting a Geiger counteroverit before taking delivery, just in case anybody was interested. Tony blank manufacturer is currently working on some type of hybridgraphite/titanium blank, and several have already put their concepts intoproduction.Like any "new" material, the cost is astronomical. Simply using the word"titanium" is enough to double the price, or so it seems in otherindustries where this material has replaced other lightweight alloys asthe standard production material. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Jan 10 15:57:42 2001 f0ALvfe14182 Subject: RE: Green Cane If you think that it is mold, simply send me a small piece. I will clearthe tissue, slice off a small piece, study it under the microscope, and caneasily determine if this is the case.Jerry Snider At 04:20 PM 01/10/2001 -0500, Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO wrote:Don, Sounds like it could be mold. Take a strip or two and do a "break test" tosee if it's been weakened. I'd also move the rest to the attic. Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:26 PM Subject: Green Cane Guys, Have you ever seen this - the cane has been stored in my basement for 18years. Was doing the finishing planing and upon enamel removal I found thatthe cane underneath the enamel was light green - not a constant green butin splotches. It's not water marked - seen enough of that in 20 years - this is something different. Don't know how deep the green went. Tookabout0.010" off with the scraper and decided to quit. The green was less but notgone.And also on one of the tip strips, there was a large pitch pocket about0.050 wide and 0.050 deep by about 1.5" long. This was located under anodeabout 0.080" under the surface. Fortunately, I could plane the pocket out.Still, if it were in a butt strip, I would expect that it could weaken thestrip significantly.Two firsts today - and at least one worked out. The jury is still out onthe other one. The rod is a Payne 198 taper. Don from dutcher@email.msn.com Wed Jan 10 16:20:44 2001 f0AMKhe15169 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:20:26 -0800 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Please,Could someone check on Jojo, I think he may have become a danger tohimself (if not to innocent bamboo). DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Damn it, Tony! Now you tell me! I find a cheap source of Titanium, andjustwhen I thought I had the chelation process of Titanium-Bamboo perfected,youhave to bring into question the radioactivity. Man, I've been working only worth: my new hybrid rods will run faster, jump higher, qualify for Mensamembership, are faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than alocomotive, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, and hell yes,they catch more fish, and larger fish, too. Now, all you mere mortals --TAKE THAT! (He wrote with a chortle. Taking another sip of the Laphroaig,hefelt quite satisfied in having sufficiently derided and ridiculed thelowlymasses.) I guess now you'll all want to be spoon-fed my secret process.Don't bother writing. I will only ignore your pitiful pleas. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Knowing the Russian habit of using double speak has been refined to anartform I took his answer to mean he and a few friends had stolen adecommissioned nuke sub, put the crew to work dismantling it for a pieceofthe action and were bit by bit selling the evidence any way they could.Maybe he was telling the truth, either way I'd think titanium is stillcheap and easy to get there but may be worth putting a Geiger counteroverit before taking delivery, just in case anybody was interested. Tony blank manufacturer is currently working on some type of hybridgraphite/titanium blank, and several have already put their conceptsintoproduction.Like any "new" material, the cost is astronomical. Simply using theword"titanium" is enough to double the price, or so it seems in otherindustries where this material has replaced other lightweight alloys asthe standard production material. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 10 16:28:19 2001 f0AMSIe15632 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins nano-titanium- probes? "Resistance is FUTILE" from the seminar on Borg flyrod technology jerry from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 10 17:01:09 2001 f0AN19e18344 Subject: archives Sorry for annoyance in advance but I don't know how to use the archivesand have run into a Payne 198. Would like to get as much info on therod as possible and I thought the archives would be the bestplace......Rich Colo. P.S. Have the taper for the Model 98 but haveto figure how to unzip it. As soon as I get it unscrabled will postit. Had a rodmaker take the taper. from zimmer@adams.net Wed Jan 10 17:09:39 2001 f0AN9ce18681 Subject: Re: Al Medved beveler This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C07B28.7FF45080 ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C07B28.7FF45080 The pictures I referred to of the beveler are posted on Chris Bogarts =website(for which I thank him), at =http://www.shentel.net/canerod/HTML/ClassIndex.html , just scroll down =the page for pix and plans. Nice design and fairly simple to put = John the # is 800 578 1647 days---------------------------------------------------- -----------------Randy Zimmermanzimmer@adams.netZimmerman Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C07B28.7FF45080 The pictures I referred to of the beveler are posted on = Bogarts website(for which I thank him), at http://www.s= simple to put together. ------------------------------------------------------------= Bros., Since 1915www.zimmermanbros.com ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C07B28.7FF45080-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C07B28.7FF45080 name="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" filename="Randy Zimmerman.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Zimmerman;RandallFN:Randy ZimmermanORG:Zimmerman Bros., Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:217-285- 2196ADR;WORK:;;118 N. Monroe;Pittsfield;Il.;62363LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:118 N. =Monroe=3D0D=3D0APittsfield, Il. 62363URL:URL:http://www.zimmermanbros.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:zimmer@adams.netREV:20010110T231224ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C07B28.7FF45080-- from HomeyDKlown@att.net Wed Jan 10 17:28:46 2001 f0ANSje19454 ;Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:28:40 +0000 and Collecting Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins I guess now you'll all want to be spoon-fed mysecret process.Don't bother writing. I will only ignore your pitiful pleas. M-D Jojo, Don't bother. Just send the rest of the scotch and we'll call it even! Dennis----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Knowing the Russian habit of using double speak has been refined to anartform I took his answer to mean he and a few friends had stolen adecommissioned nuke sub, put the crew to work dismantling it for a pieceofthe action and were bit by bit selling the evidence any way they could.Maybe he was telling the truth, either way I'd think titanium is stillcheap and easy to get there but may be worth putting a Geiger counteroverit before taking delivery, just in case anybody was interested. Tony blank manufacturer is currently working on some type of hybridgraphite/titanium blank, and several have already put their concepts intoproduction.Like any "new" material, the cost is astronomical. Simply using theword"titanium" is enough to double the price, or so it seems in otherindustries where this material has replaced other lightweight alloys asthe standard production material. from across@www.downandacross.com Wed Jan 10 17:29:06 2001 f0ANT6e19501 (4.4.209.138) Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins If you get that rod near the water, the fish will be much bigger...as in Incredible Hulk bigger. You could call yourself the Curie Rod Co.Best regards,Bob At 03:38 PM 1/10/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:Damn it, Tony! Now you tell me! I find a cheap source of Titanium, and justwhen I thought I had the chelation process of Titanium-Bamboo perfected,youhave to bring into question the radioactivity. Man, I've been working only worth: my new hybrid rods will run faster, jump higher, qualify for Mensamembership, are faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than alocomotive, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, and hell yes,they catch more fish, and larger fish, too. Now, all you mere mortals --TAKE THAT! (He wrote with a chortle. Taking another sip of the Laphroaig,hefelt quite satisfied in having sufficiently derided and ridiculed the lowlymasses.) I guess now you'll all want to be spoon-fed my secret process.Don't bother writing. I will only ignore your pitiful pleas. M-D Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 10 17:51:17 2001 f0ANpGe20565 and Collecting Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins How about this solution. Negative pressure pump Actually it works like this. To obtain the maximum benefit of effortsexerted in transferring the fly to the surface of the water with maximumefficiency, you need to first build a negative pressure vacuum pump. Thetheory of the pump is this. Given a specified volume of space, (say a cubicfoot), the weight of that space is a function of the material occupying thatspace. For instance a quart of water weighs about 2 lb. But a quart ofstandard air weighs considerably less. The weight of helium is even less andhydrogen even less. All of these have a positive weight however. The abilityof a balloon to rise vertically due to the difference in weight of a space equalto the volume of the balloon and the weight of the substance occupying thespace within the balloon plus the weight of the covering. If the weight of theballoon is less than the weight of an equal volume of air, the balloon rises. However this all assumes that all weights are positive. It is now possible to construct a negative pressure vacuum pump using theRussian irradiated titanium. The process is quite complicated and requires avery active radiation level distributed logarithmically and measuring a densityof several kG/mjoule at the origin of the hyperbole and distributed aroundthe piston. This requires a functional chamber for the vacuum pump of atleast 144 cubic ft with shielding by refined lead of at least 3 * feet thick. This also requires a radiation hardened construction chamber formanufacturing and assembly of the titanium vacuum pump. Once the vacuum pump is constructed an acceptable power plant must beadded. A standard three phase Wikelson power plant is completelyacceptable for this application. from here we need to refer back to our discussion on the weight of theballoon. To obtain the most buoyant artifice for normal applications, i.e. lessthan the hydrogen filled balloon, we would construct a implosion resistantskin and fill it with a vacuum. Since the weight of a cubic foot of vacuumweighs zero, (the weight of nothing is nothing), a balloon filed with a vacuumwould weigh considerably less than the hydrogen filled balloon. The difficulty is then constructing a balloon skin sufficiently rigid enough tocontain a vacuum and still weigh no more than a standard balloon skin. Thisis of course beyond our technologyat the present time. The solution is thenegative pressure vacuum pump. In evacuating a given volume of space, the negative pressure vacuum pumpworks like a positive pressure vacuum pump until zero pressure is obtained. Thereafter, the normal hiss of the machine will be observed to deepen twodecades resulting in all sound near the system to sound muffled. At this point, the region of space contained within the chamber beingevacuated can be observed to enter a negative state, i.e. to exhibit anegative pressure. Actual instruments to monitor the negative pressure arecomplicated and costly to manufacture except one. A simple scale can beused by calibrate the weight scale to read pressure. It is only necessary tomeasure the weight of the chamber to determine the approximate value ofthe negative pressure. This can be a problem if an efficient "balloon" skin isused. Once the negative pressure has resulted in a reduction below zero of avalue equal but opposite that of the "skin", all further increase in thenegative pressure will result in a balloon with a total weight less than zero. With the infinite negative pressure drive, it is only necessary to construct achamber strong enough to support the pressure and fill it with the desirednumber of negatrils, (i.e. units of measure to describe the negativepressure/weight).!!!We really are not concerned with the actual weight of the chamber as wecan displace enough negatrils to obtain any desired weight anyway. Finally, if the less active titanium residue is used to construct a chamber(approximately 8 ` long with the diameter one end somewhere between * "and 3/8" and tapering to a thickness of less than .1" at the other end, it canbe filled with enough negatrils, (using the negative pressure pump) to arriveat any desired weight. A featherweight rod is both practical and achieveable; with the weight of the line, leader and reel included. The one time the principals were employed, the resultant combination wasalmost beyond belief. It was found that modification of the backcast couldbe used to control the action of the rod and either fast action or slow action,(even parabolic) action could be obtained by subtle changes to the backcast. There is only one known problem with the technology. Some unknown glitch inthe system results in a premature failure of the titanium skin of thecontainer. The presence of water at the ideal trout temperature along withthe one specific backcast, resulted in a cataclysmic failure of the chamberand resulted in 2 * miles of prime trout river disappearing into the voidproduced by the negative pressure region. This resulted in a moratorium onfurther experiments as several politicians were using the porta-potties at alocal fundraiser in the park adjacent to the river. The fund-raiser along withthe porta-poties also disappeared into the void. Best regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com jojo@ipa.net wrote:Damn it, Tony! Now you tell me! I find a cheap source of Titanium, and justwhen I thought I had the chelation process of Titanium- Bamboo perfected,youhave to bring into question the radioactivity. Man, I've been working only worth: my new hybrid rods will run faster, jump higher, qualify for Mensamembership, are faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than alocomotive, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, and hell yes,they catch more fish, and larger fish, too. Now, all you mere mortals --TAKE THAT! (He wrote with a chortle. Taking another sip of the Laphroaig, hefelt quite satisfied in having sufficiently derided and ridiculed the lowlymasses.) I guess now you'll all want to be spoon-fed my secret process.Don't bother writing. I will only ignore your pitiful pleas. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Knowing the Russian habit of using double speak has been refined to an artform I took his answer to mean he and a few friends had stolen adecommissioned nuke sub, put the crew to work dismantling it for a pieceofthe action and were bit by bit selling the evidence any way they could.Maybe he was telling the truth, either way I'd think titanium is stillcheap and easy to get there but may be worth putting a Geiger counteroverit before taking delivery, just in case anybody was interested. Tony blank manufacturer is currently working on some type of hybridgraphite/titanium blank, and several have already put their concepts intoproduction.Like any "new" material, the cost is astronomical. Simply using the word"titanium" is enough to double the price, or so it seems in otherindustries where this material has replaced other lightweight alloys asthe standard production material. from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 10 18:05:39 2001 f0B05ce21106 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins I for one, enjoyed seeing the ads for Titanium waders (!?) Perhaps aTitanium Albolene/Gink next? Or dubbing?Art At 10:38 AM 01/10/2001 -0600, Custom Built Fishing Rods wrote:You laugh, but (IMHO) the reason we are seeing so many "new" ways to saygraphite is that plain ole graphite is close to going the way of bamboo andfiberglass. It's about time for something new to replace it as thestandard material for production rods. Simple Graphite has past the point(about5 or 6 years ago) of being able to make "new and improved" compounds forrods without additives. It's really no different than all the ratherstrange combinations of bamboo strips, or bamboo and other woods, thatbegan to show up not long before (bamboo) was retired in favor offiberglass.The general public had outgrown the standard rod material and when itcould not be improved upon, it was replaced. The same happened tofiberglasswith the advent of the early graphite/glass composites. This thing oftrotting out a "new and improved" version of whatever was the previousstandard is not new, manufactures simply started forcing the cycle, ratherthan waiting for a sales slump to "improve" their product. Every majorblank manufacturer is currently working on some type of hybridgraphite/titanium blank, and several have already put their concepts intoproduction.Like any "new" material, the cost is astronomical. Simply using the word"titanium" is enough to double the price, or so it seems in otherindustries where this material has replaced other lightweight alloys asthe standard production material. from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 10 18:19:25 2001 f0B0JOe21634 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins I knew there would be an upside to all this: MONSTER TROUT! And, since theTi- B rod is lighter and stronger one will be able to land the largest offish on a mere wisp of a rod. (Superior smirk.) By the way, inasmuch as I aman Immortal anyway, the radioactivity is of no consequence. Your obviousenvy is noted.The Curie Rod Co. I'm glad I thought of that. M-D ----- Original Message ----- If you get that rod near the water, the fish will be much bigger...as inIncredible Hulk bigger. You could call yourself the Curie Rod Co.Best regards,Bob At 03:38 PM 1/10/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:Damn it, Tony! Now you tell me! I find a cheap source of Titanium, andjustwhen I thought I had the chelation process of Titanium-Bamboo perfected,youhave to bring into question the radioactivity. Man, I've been workingonly worth: my new hybrid rods will run faster, jump higher, qualify for Mensamembership, are faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than alocomotive, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, and hell yes,they catch more fish, and larger fish, too. Now, all you mere mortals --TAKE THAT! (He wrote with a chortle. Taking another sip of the Laphroaig,hefelt quite satisfied in having sufficiently derided and ridiculed thelowlymasses.) I guess now you'll all want to be spoon-fed my secret process.Don't bother writing. I will only ignore your pitiful pleas. M-D from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 10 18:24:56 2001 f0B0Ote21884 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:24:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Richard,JoJo's name isn't JoJo. It's Martin Darrell. And the danger he is tohimself is not a recent development. He's been that way for some time! Buttothe rest of us, he's mostly harmless Harry "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Please,Could someone check on Jojo, I think he may have become a danger tohimself (if not to innocent bamboo). from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 10 18:43:40 2001 f0B0hde22321 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Okay Boyd, Now you've done it. You're all in deep dookie. I mean it! The whole List!Taunts all around. M-D----- Original Message ----- Richard,JoJo's name isn't JoJo. It's Martin Darrell. And the danger he is tohimself is not a recent development. He's been that way for some time!But tothe rest of us, he's mostly harmless Harry "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Please,Could someone check on Jojo, I think he may have become a danger tohimself (if not to innocent bamboo). from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Jan 10 19:07:06 2001 f0B170e23079 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:04:45 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) and Collecting Subject: RE: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins I'm impressed!! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins How about this solution. Negative pressure pump from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Jan 10 19:50:27 2001 f0B1oQe23912 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 10 Jan 2001 20:50:21 -0500 Subject: Length of grip on a Gillum salmon rod Hello. Would anyone know the appropriate length of a grip for a Gillum8'10" 8 wt salmon rod? Also, would anyone know the shape Gillum used forgrips on such rods? I'm leaning toward a half wells but would like to matchthe original if possible. Thanks, Richard from briansr@point-net.com Wed Jan 10 19:58:11 2001 f0B1wAe24185 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:58:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Craftex lathe ShawnTerry Ackland convinced me to bbuy this lathe in the USA and it's thesame except the Craftex has a CAE(or whatever sticker on it) Check outthe7X10 minilathe site and read up on it.I might also suggest e-mail Terry andask him.He'll give you and honest assessment.It'll probably need some finetuning .I'm NOT a machinist and I've enjoyed setting it up . Yeah, I knowit's UGLY there ARE better lathes like a Myford out there but the price ISright.Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Craftex lathe Hi all,I have a question for those more knowledgeable in metal lathesthan I. I am looking at a Craftex mini metal lathe for ferrules,winding checks and seat hardware. It is a model B1979C 7 x 8 variablespeed and it is on sale here in Canada for $599, regularly $899. I thinkI may be able to work a bit more off the price as it has been on theshelf for at least 2 1/2 years and has been on and off sale often.I would love to hear your thoughts, especially those who own one.Is this a reasonable price? Is it good enough quality to do the work Iwant it to do or should I keep looking?? Is the mini size large enough (I don't have a lot of excess room for huge ones) . Am I going to haveto go buy lots of expensive accessories that I might get thrown in had Ibought a used one (The $149 cost of a 3 jaw chuck for my little woodlathe scared me!) ??Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 10 20:09:50 2001 f0B29ne24483 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes John, Art, and others. I've been getting answers before questions quite frequently here lately. It'seven worse on the FF@ list.Now, if I can just get on the Tonight Show with this, I'll be the greatCarmac,with the questions hermetically sealed in a mayonaisse jar... (For you young guys, that harps back to Johnny Carson, not Steve Allen) Harry John Hewitt wrote: Art,Happens to me all the time, and has for years...Don't know if it'ssolvableor not...Art Port wrote: Do others of you get the answers before the questions on the list? from channer1@rmi.net Wed Jan 10 20:29:42 2001 f0B2Tfe25063 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Onis;Go fishing, leave now!John from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 10 20:42:37 2001 f0B2gae25505 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: archives Thanks Larry. I'm suprised to hear the DT6. The rod I felt today I wouldhaveborrowed money from my mother to bet it was a DT4. I wonder if this isanotherModel 98 deal with all the different tapers. I have a model 96 and this hasthe same smooth feel to it that seem to be common to many Payne tapers.Again thanks for the info.......Rich Larry Blan wrote: I don't know that we've had a 198 run through here before. For my money,Dennis Higham is the Payne guru, you might hear from him. Payne catalog lists as follows: 3 piece (duh!)7-1/2' Fast DF6 3-3/4 to 3-7/8 oz (with the standard seat)a screw typeseatadded 1/2 oz to the listed weights. This was from a '77/'78 catalog. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 5:59 PM Subject: archives Sorry for annoyance in advance but I don't know how to use the archivesand have run into a Payne 198. Would like to get as much info on therod as possible and I thought the archives would be the bestplace......Rich Colo. P.S. Have the taper for the Model 98 but haveto figure how to unzip it. As soon as I get it unscrabled will postit. Had a rodmaker take the taper. from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 10 20:45:31 2001 f0B2jUe25666 Subject: Re: Length of grip on a Gillum salmon rod Richard, a little off the subject but have you ever made or cast the 81/2' #8Gillum Salmon that a lot of the books talk about....Rich Colo Richard Nantel wrote: Hello. Would anyone know the appropriate length of a grip for a Gillum8'10" 8 wt salmon rod? Also, would anyone know the shape Gillum used forgrips on such rods? I'm leaning toward a half wells but would like to matchthe original if possible. Thanks, Richard from oakmere@carol.net Wed Jan 10 21:21:15 2001 f0B3LFe26489 Subject: RE: Titanium and other rod materials; An a Question. Hi Folks; Off the bamboo issue but relevant. As you all know, all rods are made of composite materials - bamboo,fiberglass, and graphite. The fiberglass and graphite come as clothimpregnated very fine fibers as you all are aware. I have seen and it ispossible to make titanium, stainless, or just about any other metal fiberwith dimensions similar to graphite fibers and impregnated it with a resinto create a cloth form. Stuff like this is being use for defense relatedtechnologies, so it will make its way into sport related technology one ofthese days. Roll it up on a mandrel and you have a rod. Don't be suprised. Any way here is a bamboo rod question. I noticed on an old bamboo rod tubethat there are holes is the ends (cap and bottom) for air circulation. Isthat something that should be put into rod tubes that one uses to storebamboo rods? Thanks for any input. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Jan 10 21:32:03 2001 f0B3W2e26783 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins In a message dated 01/10/2001 4:51:55 PM PDT, k5vkq@ix.netcom.comwrites: Hey! I was going to do this!Mike from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Jan 10 21:40:18 2001 f0B3eHe27075 Subject: Re: Fw: Off the subject... kind of... In a message dated 01/09/2001 11:36:36 PM PDT, caneman@clnk.comwrites: Bob, I for one can't wait until my son has his OWN house and I can drink HIS coffee, and he never did listen to where I told him to cast!Mike from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 10 22:05:05 2001 f0B454e27668 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I think I know what's going on, to an extent. I think they're going out inbursts, our ISPs are ordering them before forwarding, but once we get 'em (and I collect them all day), they stay in the order they arrived. So oneburst may precede another but each burst is internally chronologicallycorrect.I'll bet the guys who aren't experiencing this are getting their mail oncea day, and their ISP has rearranged it before relaying.Art At 08:07 PM 01/10/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:John, Art, and others. I've been getting answers before questions quite frequently herelately. It'seven worse on the FF@ list.Now, if I can just get on the Tonight Show with this, I'll be thegreat Carmac,with the questions hermetically sealed in a mayonaisse jar... (For you young guys, that harps back to Johnny Carson, not Steve Allen) Harry John Hewitt wrote: Art,Happens to me all the time, and has for years...Don't know if it'ssolvableor not...Art Port wrote: Do others of you get the answers before the questions on the list? from martinj@aa.net Wed Jan 10 23:03:17 2001 f0B53Ge28626 Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:03:14 -0800 Subject: RE: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Trust me, the ISP's don't re-arrange them. They (administrators) have waytoo much to do, to worry about the order in which messages are received in.Messages are sent to a mail server from a client and go into a queue waiting mail server. You end up getting them in the order in which they arrived intothe respective queue's. In between all this you can add the routing of themessage in the Internet which can vary depending on time, traffic, and cost(a predetermined figure used to determine priority) of the message. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I think I know what's going on, to an extent. I think they're going out inbursts, our ISPs are ordering them before forwarding, but once we get 'em (and I collect them all day), they stay in the order they arrived. So oneburst may precede another but each burst is internally chronologicallycorrect.I'll bet the guys who aren't experiencing this are getting their mail oncea day, and their ISP has rearranged it before relaying.Art At 08:07 PM 01/10/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:John, Art, and others. I've been getting answers before questions quite frequently herelately. It'seven worse on the FF@ list.Now, if I can just get on the Tonight Show with this, I'll be thegreat Carmac,with the questions hermetically sealed in a mayonaisse jar... (For you young guys, that harps back to Johnny Carson, not Steve Allen) Harry John Hewitt wrote: Art,Happens to me all the time, and has for years...Don't know if it'ssolvableor not...Art Port wrote: Do others of you get the answers before the questions on the list? from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Jan 11 03:39:12 2001 f0B9d7e01195 Subject: The perfect wrap How shall I get rid of those "air pockets"forming on each sides on thesnake feet's. I get perfect glass lookingwraps using thinned spar on the firstfew coats, but get those uglyspots where the silk not is in contact with the cane. Sometimes I evenget it where the tag end is trapped under thewraps.TIA,danny from channer1@rmi.net Thu Jan 11 06:58:22 2001 f0BCwLe02498 Subject: Re: The perfect wrap danny;The only way I have found to get rid of them is to flood the wrap onyour first coat, to the point that varnish comes out from under the wrapalong the guide. Also, I don't thin the varnish at all, when the thinnerevaporates, the pockets come back. I pay extra attention to this when Iuse Varathane for color preserved wraps, if you leave the pockets open,when you dip the rod, varnish will get in there and you wind up withtransparent blotches on either side of the guide feet.John danny twang wrote: How shall I get rid of those "air pockets" forming on each sides on thesnake feet's. I get perfect glass looking wraps using thinned spar on thefirstfew coats, but get those ugly spots where the silk not is in contact withthecane. Sometimes I even get it where the tag end is trapped under thewraps.TIA,danny from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 11 07:00:13 2001 f0BD0Ce02670 Subject: Re: Nano-Titanium enhanced resins Next thing we know, someone will be substituting high-density depleteduranium for Gink! -Doug At 05:40 PM 1/10/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:I knew there would be an upside to all this: MONSTER TROUT! And, since theTi-B rod is lighter and stronger one will be able to land the largest offish on a mere wisp of a rod. (Superior smirk.) By the way, inasmuch as Iaman Immortal anyway, the radioactivity is of no consequence. Your obviousenvy is noted.The Curie Rod Co. I'm glad I thought of that. M-D Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 11 07:10:10 2001 f0BDAAe02964 ;Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:10:05 +0000 Subject: Re: The perfect wrap Danny, I apply my varnish to the wraps with a small sable brush. With practiceone can load the brush to flood the wraps in one turn of the rod withouta great excess of varnish. I then touch the brush to a rag I have handyand turn the rod one more time and lightly touch and drag anybubbleswith just the tip of the brush. You only get one shot at this butwith practice it almost always works. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO danny twang wrote: How shall I get rid of those "air pockets" forming on each sides on thesnake feet's. I get perfect glass looking wraps using thinned spar on thefirstfew coats, but get those ugly spots where the silk not is in contact withthecane. Sometimes I even get it where the tag end is trapped under thewraps.TIA,danny from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Jan 11 08:39:53 2001 f0BEdqe04984 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Length of grip on a Gillum salmon rod Richard, a little off the subject but have you ever made orcast the 81/2' #8Gillum Salmon that a lot of the books talk about....Rich Colo I'm just finishing the 8'10" 8 wt Gillum from Howell's book. I mounted anddressed the ferrules and put the blank together a couple of days ago andgive it a wiggle. It looks REALLY powerful and doesn't seem that heavy. (AsI've mentioned in the past, I don't agree at all that the maximum size of agood cane rod stops at 8 ft and DT5). I'm quite sure mine is faster action than the original, though, since Iflame and temper my cane and I just read in Trout II that Gillum did nottemper his can at all. So, I don't think the rod I built will be all thatclose to the original, even if I was faithful to the taper. The rod will be done in a week and if it warms up a bit, I may cast it outin the snow. Richard from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jan 11 08:42:36 2001 f0BEgae05183 Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:42:33 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: The perfect wrap A friend of mine showed me this little trick and it works great.Fill one of those little plastic squeeze bottles that is used for flytying headcement with your favorite finish. Point the nozzle at the foot of the guideandsqueeze what you need to fill the gap. As the rod is rotating squeeze whatyou needto cover the rest of the wrap. You will be surprised at how much control youhave inapplying the finish.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Steve Trauthwein wrote: Danny, I apply my varnish to the wraps with a small sable brush. With practiceone can load the brush to flood the wraps in one turn of the rod withouta great excess of varnish. I then touch the brush to a rag I have handyand turn the rod one more time and lightly touch and drag anybubbleswith just the tip of the brush. You only get one shot at this butwith practice it almost always works. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO danny twang wrote: How shall I get rid of those "air pockets" forming on each sides on thesnake feet's. I get perfect glass looking wraps using thinned spar on thefirstfew coats, but get those ugly spots where the silk not is in contact withthecane. Sometimes I even get it where the tag end is trapped under thewraps.TIA,danny from briansr@point-net.com Thu Jan 11 08:50:50 2001 f0BEone05545 Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:50:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes The automotive abrasive pads ARE quite good at "sanding a curved orbevellededge.I've used them on a maple coffes table edge. the red is about equal to200 grit or so.That being said ,it DOES leave a marks in the wood grain fromthe dye in the pad making the wood look "dirty" and I had to final smoothrub with 0000 steel wool---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes Tony Somone on this list a couple of months ago, or maybe it was 6 months,suggested the use of the 3M abrasive pads as used by auto body shops asasubstitute for metallic wool. In this country they are available in three grades (the finest usuallyonlyon special order), and I have found then really useful in those situationsin which I would usually use steel wool. They are as cheap as chips here, can be cut to size, and they do sitprettywell on a flat block for keeping corners sharp while rubbing down. Other major benefits are that it allows you to choose your level ofabrasiveness and to change it at will; the stuff does not clog up, and ifitdoes clog a little bit you can just give it a thump and knock all the dustright out of it; and because you can trim it, you can use it for somefairlyfiddly little bits. Also, obviously, no little ferrous bits left on thejob. The only disadvantages I have found are that you have to go to the bodyshopsuppliers to buy it, which may be a bit of a worry for some, dependingwherethey live; and that your wife tends to pinch the brown grade to use as apotscrubber. Stay healthy Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:35 PMSubject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinnerafterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you werelookingatwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes andwhenIwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybodyknowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I preparedmyearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smoothfinishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Thu Jan 11 09:05:43 2001 f0BF5fe06149 Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:07:15 -0500 Subject: RE: The perfect wrap This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C07BB7.0FF32B00 Hi Danny, Before you put any finish on the wraps take a very fine artist liner brushand put a drop of thinned finish on the foot of the guide or snake. The footwill act as a path for the finish and will draw it into the wrap. I do this2 times to make sure the tunnel is filled. This should solve your problem. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker-----Original Message----- Subject: The perfect wrap How shall I get rid of those "air pockets" forming on each sides on the snake feet's. I get perfect glass looking wraps using thinned spar on thefirst few coats, but get those ugly spots where the silk not is in contact withthe cane. Sometimes I even get it where the tag end is trapped under the wraps. TIA, danny ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C07BB7.0FF32B00 0DocumentEmail Hi=Danny, Be=fore youput any finish on the wraps take a very fine artist liner brush and put =a dropof thinned finish on the foot of the guide or snake. The foot will act =as apath for the finish and will draw it into the wrap. I do this 2 times to =makesure the tunnel is filled. This should solve your =problem. Ta=ke care, Signature" Upstream =Always, Tim Doughty Rodmaker -----OriginalMessage-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Thursday, January=11, 20014:44 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: The perfect =wrap How shall I get rid of those ="air pockets" forming on each sides on thesnake feet's. I get perfect glass looking wraps using thinned spar on =the firstfew coats, but get those ugly spots where the silk not is in contact =with the cane. Sometimes I even get it where the tag end is trapped under the =wraps.TIA,danny ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C07BB7.0FF32B00-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Jan 11 09:09:53 2001 f0BF9re06412 JAA19486 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:09:54 Subject: Re: Straightening blank near butt I asked this question to the list a week ago. The answerscame back 4 recommendations for dry heat from a toaster orelectric burner and 2 for steam. Not being satisfied with the family toaster, I found one ata Goodwill store with one long slot. I took out most of the"works" so it just operates with an on/off switch. And notbeing satisfied with using my thumbs to straighten and holdthe rod butt until it cooled, I made a jig in the form of afoot long narrow box with no top or bottom, notches in theends to hold the rod and a C-clamp mounted across the middleso I can apply pressure just where I want it. The first timeI used too much pressure and it bent the kink the other waybut the second time it came out pretty good. If I ever give up this hobby I'll have a jolly bonfire with allthe odd jigs and contraptions I've made in the past 6 years.The basement is half full of them...planing jigs, splicing jigs,sawing jigs, spring-loaded stretchers for glueup, ferrule pullers,wrapping jigs, drying cabinets etc etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Frank Stetzer wrote: I glued up a rod a while ago, and it came out with a slight kinkway down on the butt, about where the rod will leave the handle.I can do an OK job of straightening farther up the rod, using Max Satoh's clothes iron method, but I've tried the iron and alsoa heat gun on this spot without much results. I don't think I'mgetting enough heat into the rod. Its a blond rod so I'm trying not to scorch it. The rod is glued with resorcinol so its pretty tough. Once the handle is on the kink probably won't be noticable. ButI'd like to get it out anyway. Any advise?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan 11 11:07:32 2001 f0BH7Ve11046 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:11:07 -0800 Subject: Payne 198 f0BH7We11047 Hi Rich, There was variation in the Payne 198. I don't know the timelines except tosay that the early 198's are of a more delicate taper in the 4 wt. range andI've heard and seen references to Payne catalogs that list later 198's as 6wts. Sounds like the one you are looking at may be an early 198. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rgelder@excite.ca Thu Jan 11 14:35:43 2001 f0BKZge17936 0800 Subject: Kudos to Ted Knott I picked up the winter issue of the Canadian Flyfisher today and the secondinstallment of Ted's article was in there. Well done Ted!!! Also, it was nice to see a review of a cane rod in there as well. Againwell done Ted. It's nice to see some bamboo exposure in a nationalpublication. Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Jan 11 14:45:21 2001 f0BKjLe18340 (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Milling Machine picture sources that cuts strips ready for gluing.He is currently planning on demonstrating the contraption at theupcoming troutdale rodmakers gathering. Dean jones has a rough beveler built using a router for preliminarywork. It appeared in an old issue of the planing form (I don't know whichone).Maybe I can twist his arm into demostrating this unit as well. chris from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Jan 11 14:47:30 2001 f0BKlSe18544 +0000 Subject: Fly Rod & Bait Casting Tournament Rod Tapers I have just bought ( e-bay ) a copy of the book;'Tournament Fly & Bait Casting' by Earl Osten from 1946!This book is stuffed with tapers for Tournament Fly & Bait Casting Rods.If their is sufficient interest please let me know and I'll 'post 'them?Regards all,Paul from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Jan 11 15:07:30 2001 f0BL7Ue19350 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: FW: Milling Machine picture sources -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Milling Machine picture sources That depends. Kevin calloway is ostensibly in charge, and is working on thedate and location.He has found a private trout lake not far from portland (it's actually threelakes), and the owner will rent the property for $500 per day.If 50 people attend, that's $10 each. . . did I say that the rainbows rangeup to 8 lbs? Otherwise we'll have it in the old building (gary lohkamp has connections Anyone interested in attending, especially if you have a preference eitherway, or any ideas on what should be included in the program, please e- mailkevin at Callrods@teleport.com Hopefully after enough input kevin can select a site and date. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:15 PM Subject: RE: Milling Machine picture sources Chris, When and where is this gathering? from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jan 11 18:14:18 2001 f0C0EHe24157 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Payne 198 Hi anybody, Is the Payne 198 a 7' 3pc.? Marty Hi Rich, There was variation in the Payne 198. I don't know the timelines except tosay that the early 198's are of a more delicate taper in the 4 wt. range andI've heard and seen references to Payne catalogs that list later 198's as 6wts. Sounds like the one you are looking at may be an early 198. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan 11 18:16:18 2001 f0C0GHe24333 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:20:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Payne 198 f0C0GHe24334 It is a 7 *' 3 pc. Chris marty 01/11/01 04:13PM >>>Hi anybody, Is the Payne 198 a 7' 3pc.? Marty Hi Rich, There was variation in the Payne 198. I don't know the timelines except tosay that the early 198's are of a more delicate taper in the 4 wt. range andI've heard and seen references to Payne catalogs that list later 198's as 6wts. Sounds like the one you are looking at may be an early 198. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jan 11 18:17:28 2001 f0C0HSe24457 Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have used the pads but like the steel wool better. I do use the pad to startthe fitting of the male to female ferrule. I am sure the way I do it is not areally accepted method but I do get a good fit and good pop what I pull themapart. I do finish with 2000 paper.When I use the steel wool I pass a large( lifts 100 lbs) magnet over the rodandwraps to collect any stray metal particles. I still wipe the rod with thinner ormineral spirits after passing the magnet over the rod. Have not had anyproblemsyet but that don't mean I will never have a problem..Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com petermckean wrote: Tony Somone on this list a couple of months ago, or maybe it was 6 months,suggested the use of the 3M abrasive pads as used by auto body shops asasubstitute for metallic wool. In this country they are available in three grades (the finest usually onlyon special order), and I have found then really useful in those situationsin which I would usually use steel wool. They are as cheap as chips here, can be cut to size, and they do sit prettywell on a flat block for keeping corners sharp while rubbing down. Other major benefits are that it allows you to choose your level ofabrasiveness and to change it at will; the stuff does not clog up, and if itdoes clog a little bit you can just give it a thump and knock all the dustright out of it; and because you can trim it, you can use it for some fairlyfiddly little bits. Also, obviously, no little ferrous bits left on the job. The only disadvantages I have found are that you have to go to the bodyshopsuppliers to buy it, which may be a bit of a worry for some, dependingwherethey live; and that your wife tends to pinch the brown grade to use as apotscrubber. Stay healthy Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:35 PMSubject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinnerafterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you were lookingatwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particles leftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes and whenIwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybodyknowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I preparedmyearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smoothfinishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Thu Jan 11 20:00:02 2001 f0C201e26458 UAA08044; "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Payne 198 Hi Marty,It's a 71/2' #4. from what I have been able to find out...pre the late Forties is a earlier rod....Rich marty wrote: Hi anybody, Is the Payne 198 a 7' 3pc.? Marty Hi Rich, There was variation in the Payne 198. I don't know the timelines exceptto say that the early 198's are of a more delicate taper in the 4 wt. range and I've heard and seen references to Payne catalogs that list later 198's as6 wts. Sounds like the one you are looking at may be an early 198. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dnorl@qwest.net Thu Jan 11 20:30:07 2001 f0C2U6e27072 (63.228.46.36) Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I use a tack rag after and that seems to do a good job tooDave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have used the pads but like the steel wool better. I do use the pad tostartthe fitting of the male to female ferrule. I am sure the way I do it is notareally accepted method but I do get a good fit and good pop what I pullthemapart. I do finish with 2000 paper.When I use the steel wool I pass a large( lifts 100 lbs) magnet over therod andwraps to collect any stray metal particles. I still wipe the rod withthinner ormineral spirits after passing the magnet over the rod. Have not had anyproblemsyet but that don't mean I will never have a problem..Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com petermckean wrote: Tony Somone on this list a couple of months ago, or maybe it was 6 months,suggested the use of the 3M abrasive pads as used by auto body shopsasasubstitute for metallic wool. In this country they are available in three grades (the finest usuallyonlyon special order), and I have found then really useful in thosesituationsin which I would usually use steel wool. They are as cheap as chips here, can be cut to size, and they do sitprettywell on a flat block for keeping corners sharp while rubbing down. Other major benefits are that it allows you to choose your level ofabrasiveness and to change it at will; the stuff does not clog up, and ifitdoes clog a little bit you can just give it a thump and knock all thedustright out of it; and because you can trim it, you can use it for somefairlyfiddly little bits. Also, obviously, no little ferrous bits left on thejob. The only disadvantages I have found are that you have to go to the bodyshopsuppliers to buy it, which may be a bit of a worry for some, dependingwherethey live; and that your wife tends to pinch the brown grade to use as apotscrubber. Stay healthy Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:35 PMSubject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I have neen told that some steel wool has a fine coat of oil on it topreventrusting. I do use steel wool but wipe the blank real good with thinnerafterrubbing it downTony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Piotrowski wrote: The only reason I can think to not use steelwool is if you werelookingatwaterborn finishes. In that case, the minute steelwool particlesleftbehind may rust and discolor under the finish. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes I was out looking at different finishes to use in my dip tubes andwhenIwas reading on the sides of the cans, the manufacturers of variousproductsrecommend not prepping the surface with steel wool. Does anybodyknowwhy?Does anybody prep with x-fine steel wool and then apply the finish(varathane, urethane, spar)? Do they have good results? I preparedmyearly rods with steel wool and tung oil and really like the smoothfinishthat it gives to the cane. Thanks.... Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jan 11 21:50:00 2001 f0C3nxe28241 Subject: steel wool now tack rag There are some tack rags that leave a residue thatwill sometimes cause"fisheye" with some finishes. I found that out onsome furniture I madeonce.When I use a tack rag I still wipe with thinner orturps.We do what works for us but it is good to exchangeexperiences.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dave Norling wrote: I use a tack rag after and that seems to do agood job tooDave-----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio Date: Thursday, January 11, 2001 6:17 PMSubject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Jan 11 22:20:13 2001 f0C4KCe28680 Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:19:36 -0800 Subject: Re: steel wool now tack rag Aha yes, The ol' tack cloth "fish eye" has looked at me, also. Here's lookin' at you kid,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: steel wool now tack rag There are some tack rags that leave a residue thatwill sometimes cause"fisheye" with some finishes. I found that out onsome furniture I madeonce.When I use a tack rag I still wipe with thinner orturps.We do what works for us but it is good to exchangeexperiences.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dave Norling wrote: I use a tack rag after and that seems to do agood job tooDave-----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio Date: Thursday, January 11, 2001 6:17 PMSubject: Re: Steel Wool buffing and Finishes from jkcerise@rof.net Thu Jan 11 22:49:30 2001 f0C4nTe29183 Subject: non sorted mail Hi folks,Sorta got in on this mail sorting thing later than sooner but there maybea solution (or at least a partial one) to the problem.Try when you sit there looking at your ton of mail BEFORE you open anyofit, click a time or two on the column header ofer the date dolumn. Thiswill resort it by DATE/TIME!!!! Now it should be in pretty close to theright order to read going up, click it again there to invert the list (lastin first up).Hope that works or at least gives you something to do, even if it is notthe solution!!! Regards, JKC At 11:04 PM 1/10/2001 -0500, you wrote:I think I know what's going on, to an extent. I think they're going out inbursts, our ISPs are ordering them before forwarding, but once we get 'em(and I collect them all day), they stay in the order they arrived. So oneburst may precede another but each burst is internally chronologicallycorrect.I'll bet the guys who aren't experiencing this are getting their mail oncea day, and their ISP has rearranged it before relaying.Art At 08:07 PM 01/10/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:John, Art, and others. I've been getting answers before questions quite frequently herelately. It'seven worse on the FF@ list.Now, if I can just get on the Tonight Show with this, I'll be thegreat Carmac,with the questions hermetically sealed in a mayonaisse jar... (For you young guys, that harps back to Johnny Carson, not SteveAllen) Harry John Hewitt wrote: Art,Happens to me all the time, and has for years...Don't know if it'ssolvableor not...Art Port wrote: Do others of you get the answers before the questions on the list? from jojo@ipa.net Thu Jan 11 23:33:08 2001 f0C5X7e29748 Subject: Para 16 =_NextPart_000_0007_01C07C26.65E853E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07C26.65E853E0 Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that they would be willing to =share? ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07C26.65E853E0 Does anyone have the= Para 16 that they would be willing to =share? ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07C26.65E853E0-- from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Jan 12 06:30:30 2001 f0CCUTe02846 Subject: Re: Titanium and other rod materials; An a Question. Organization: GOULD Hi Frank,That's a fair question. I'll have to admit I don''t provide air circulationin my rod cases and haven't seen the need to do so. However I am fussy astobeing certain that the rod is dry when it is placed in its rod bag and intothe rod case and that it stays that way.Ray----- Original Message ---- - Subject: RE: Titanium and other rod materials; An a Question. Hi Folks; Off the bamboo issue but relevant. As you all know, all rods are made of composite materials - bamboo,fiberglass, and graphite. The fiberglass and graphite come as clothimpregnated very fine fibers as you all are aware. I have seen and it ispossible to make titanium, stainless, or just about any other metal fiberwith dimensions similar to graphite fibers and impregnated it with a resinto create a cloth form. Stuff like this is being use for defense relatedtechnologies, so it will make its way into sport related technology one ofthese days. Roll it up on a mandrel and you have a rod. Don't be suprised. Any way here is a bamboo rod question. I noticed on an old bamboo rod tubethat there are holes is the ends (cap and bottom) for air circulation. Isthat something that should be put into rod tubes that one uses to storebamboo rods? Thanks for any input. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Jan 12 07:34:58 2001 f0CDYve03490 Subject: Re: Payne 198 The 1975 Payne catalog lists the 198 as a 7'6" 3 piece and characterizes it as "Fast DF-6" (6 wt line), 3 3/4 oz -- 3 7/8 oz. (weight with a sliding band seat). The 1951 catalog lists the same data except there is norecommended line. The 1931 catlaog lists a 7'6" 3 piece rod with a weight of 3 -- 3 1/4 oz., substantially lighter. --Rich from rbrand@mmcable.com Fri Jan 12 08:45:29 2001 f0CEjSe05286 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:43:10 -0600 Subject: Node staggering This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07C74.54C326A0 Hello All!This question is probably a bit elementary, But I missed the answer = How far apart should nodes be when staggering? Thanks So NuchRodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07C74.54C326A0 Hello All! the answer somewhere along the way. How far apart should nodes be when =staggering? Thanks So Nuch Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07C74.54C326A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Jan 12 08:46:36 2001 f0CEkZe05413 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:37:32 -0600 Subject: Re: steel wool now tack rag You can get Fish Eye Eliminator, at most auto paint shops. One squirt to aqt., is all it takes.GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan 12 09:18:58 2001 f0CFIve06550 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:18:50 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Node staggering Rodney,The answer is, it depends. Most texts recommend spacingthe nodes equally so that every node is the same distance from the next. If your internodal distance is 18", andyou're using a 2x2x2 node spacing, each node would be sixinches apart.But that's not how I do it. I tend to use 2-3 inchesbetween nodes so that I'll have node free sections at thetips and ferrules. Harry Boyd -- PS - you might want to turn off the HTMLin your posts to the list. It sometimes causes problems forsome listmembers -- including me. thanks, HB Rodney Brand wrote: This question is probably a bit elementary, But I missedthe answer somewhere along the way.How far apart shouldnodes be when staggering? --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from YoungbloodJA@i-mef.usmc.mil Fri Jan 12 09:53:29 2001 f0CFrSe07902 GMT (V5.0) Subject: makers info This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C07CAF.ECE81E50 I am in the Marine corps stationed on the west coast (San Diego) and I amlooking for someone out here that gives classes on how to build bamboo rods.I am very interested in learning this art. Any information will be greatlyappreciated. Thank you,James Youngblood ------_=_NextPart_001_01C07CAF.ECE81E50 makers info I am in the Marine corps stationed on =the west coast (San Diego) and I am looking for someone out here that = appreciated. Thank you,James Youngblood ------_=_NextPart_001_01C07CAF.ECE81E50-- from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Fri Jan 12 11:49:41 2001 f0CHnee15079 Subject: Re: makers info This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C07C95.DDDA0C80 makers infoSgt. Youngblood: Jerry Wall of JWFlyrods gives classes. He is in Hanford, CA. You can =get information about his classes and etc. at www.jwflyrods.com Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". = Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:54 AMSubject: makers info I am in the Marine corps stationed on the west coast (San Diego) and I =am looking for someone out here that gives classes on how to build =bamboo rods. I am very interested in learning this art. Any =information will be greatly appreciated. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C07C95.DDDA0C80 makers info Sgt. Youngblood: Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= pest.com/r= ----- Original Message ----- Youngblood Sgt JamesA = Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 = AMSubject: makers info I am in the Marine corps stationed on = coast (San Diego) and I am looking for someone out here that gives = Youngblood = ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C07C95.DDDA0C80-- from piscator@macatawa.org Fri Jan 12 11:50:34 2001 f0CHoYe15224 Subject: Classic Rods and Rodmakers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C07C96.C91AF6A0 Does anyone have a spare copy of Martin Keane's book they want to sell? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C07C96.C91AF6A0 Does anyone have a sparecopy = Keane's book they want to sell? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C07C96.C91AF6A0-- from jteft@frontiernet.net Fri Jan 12 12:04:14 2001 f0CI4De15853 claiming to be "jteft" 2001 Subject: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C07C97.D4AD3180 Had my first experience with a male ferrule shooting off the end of a =rod section like it was shot from a pistol. Was heating a male ferrule =with the alcohol lamp when the male ferrule came off like a rocket. =Looks like you should always keep the ferrule being heated pointed away = from you or anyone else, just like a gun. Do not remember that in any of =my reading..must be under general shop instructions.....:-( Jim T ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C07C97.D4AD3180 Had my first experience with amale = shooting off the end of a rod section like it was shot from a pistol. = heating a male ferrule with the alcohol lamp when the male ferrule came = a rocket. Looks like you should always keep the ferrule being heated = away from you or anyone else, just like a gun. Do not remember that in = reading..must be under general shop instructions.....:-( JimT ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C07C97.D4AD3180-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Jan 12 12:42:36 2001 f0CIgZe17055 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:42:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience I have seen this in print somewhere but, I can not remember where. Ihave run across a couple of different older rods that had small holesdrilled in or near the end of the male ferrules. The holes were not centeredand obviously an addition. Could this be a remeady for ballistic ferrules? I have personally not experienced this excitment. I am wondering if thisis a warning that the cane has too high of a moisture content and should bestripped and allowed to dry before refinishing? Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience Had my first experience with a male ferrule shooting off the end of a rodsection like it was shot from a pistol. Was heating a male ferrule with thealcohol lamp when the male ferrule came off like a rocket. Looks like youshould always keep the ferrule being heated pointed away from you or anyoneelse, just like a gun. Do not remember that in any of my reading..must beunder general shop instructions.....:-( Jim T from jteft@frontiernet.net Fri Jan 12 12:45:34 2001 f0CIjXe17263 claiming to be "jteft" 2001 Subject: Butt Cap removal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C07C9D.A1BE8020 Need advice ! Have a butt cap with 2 nails holding it in a wooden reel =seat. What is the best way to remove the nails and salvage them ? The =rod appears to be a Heddon maybe a Lucky Angler.Jim T ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C07C9D.A1BE8020 Need advice ! Have a butt cap with2 = holding it in a wooden reel seat. What is the best way to remove the = salvage them ? The rod appears to be a Heddon maybe a Lucky =Angler.JimT ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01C07C9D.A1BE8020-- from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jan 12 14:02:12 2001 f0CK26e22125 Subject: Re: Butt Cap removal --part1_b2.fc7fbbb.2790bcae_boundary In a message dated 1/12/01 10:46:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, jteft@frontiernet.net writes: Need advice ! Have a butt cap with 2 nails holding it in a wooden reel seat. What is the best way to remove the nails and salvage them ? The rod appears to be a Heddon maybe a Lucky Angler.Jim T Jim, If there's heads on the nails then use a very sharp pair of wire cutters (read this as expensive or high quality) to get under the head and lift the nails out - just don't squeeze too hard or you'll cut the heads off. If pinned - then drive the pins into the spacer. Don Burns --part1_b2.fc7fbbb.2790bcae_boundary In a message dated1/12/01 10:46:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, jteft@frontiernet.net writes: Need advice ! Have a butt cap with 2 nails holding it in a wooden reel seat. What is the best way to remove the nails and salvage them ? Therod appears to be a Heddon maybe a Lucky Angler.Jim T Jim, If there's heads on the nails then use a very sharp pair of wire cutters (read this as expensive or high quality) to get under the head and liftthe nails out - just don't squeeze too hard or you'll cut the heads off. If pinned - then drive the pins into the spacer. Don Burns --part1_b2.fc7fbbb.2790bcae_boundary-- from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jan 12 14:02:13 2001 f0CK2Ce22130 Subject: Re: makers info rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_be.e921f39.2790bcb1_boundary Come up to Bishop next October for the Great Western rodmakers gathering- Chuck Irvine is going to show up newbies how to plane our fingers and other body parts. Don Burns --part1_be.e921f39.2790bcb1_boundary Come up to Bishop nextOctober for the Great Western rodmakers gathering - Chuck Irvine is going to show up newbies how to plane our fingers andother Don Burns --part1_be.e921f39.2790bcb1_boundary-- from anglport@con2.com Fri Jan 12 15:18:54 2001 f0CLIre24777 Subject: Re: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience The closest I've ever come to this was one time when I glued a ferrule to arod and the glue expanded (slowly) and raised the ferrule about halfway OFFthe darn butt so there was excess airspace and the butt appeared to beabout 3/8" longer than it should have been. Had fun undoing THAT bit ofwork!Bummer!Art At 10:38 AM 01/12/2001 -0800, Richard R. Dutcher wrote:I have seen this in print somewhere but, I can not remember where. Ihave run across a couple of different older rods that had small holesdrilled in or near the end of the male ferrules. The holes were not centeredand obviously an addition. Could this be a remeady for ballistic ferrules? I have personally not experienced this excitment. I am wondering if thisis a warning that the cane has too high of a moisture content and should bestripped and allowed to dry before refinishing? Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Jim Tefft Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:01 AMSubject: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience Had my first experience with a male ferrule shooting off the end of a rodsection like it was shot from a pistol. Was heating a male ferrule with thealcohol lamp when the male ferrule came off like a rocket. Looks like youshould always keep the ferrule being heated pointed away from you oranyoneelse, just like a gun. Do not remember that in any of my reading..must beunder general shop instructions.....:-( Jim T from anglport@con2.com Fri Jan 12 15:23:26 2001 f0CLNPe25039 Subject: Re: Butt Cap removal Do you really need to salvage them? How about grinding the heads off with aDremel-like tool, then treating them like pins?Art At 03:01 PM 01/12/2001 EST, Canerods@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/12/01 10:46:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, jteft@frontiernet.net writes: Need advice ! Have a butt cap with 2 nails holding it in a wooden reel seat. What is the best way to remove the nails and salvage them ? The rod appears to be a Heddon maybe a Lucky Angler. Jim T Jim, If there's heads on the nails then use a very sharp pair of wire cutters (read this as expensive or high quality) to get under the head and lift the If pinned - then drive the pins into the spacer. Don Burns from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Jan 12 15:41:31 2001 f0CLfUe25765 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:45:12 -0800 Subject: RE: Length of grip on a Gilllum salmon rod f0CLfVe25766 I looked over three Gillum's today. One was signed as a "H.S. Gillum", "CustomBuilt". It had an uncharacteristic downlocking seat made with the same tigermahogany reelseat spacer and screwlock hardware as the other two whichwere uplocking. The Custom rod had the same grip shape as the other twoexcept it had a rounded nose, so maybe we can't count that one. Anyway,the other two are original standard grip Gillum's. They are Reverse HalfWells, with the waist being less dramatic then average. The back of the gripwhere it meets the seat as well as the nose of the grip is flat. The 8' troutrod had 12 rings and the 9' 3 pc. salmon rod had 14 rings. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Jan 12 16:02:12 2001 f0CM2Be26980 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Gang, I forgot I took a bunch of photos of a collector who was showcasing hisoutstanding collection of PHY rods including the Para 15, 16, Texas General,Martha Marie and some others. He gave me permission to post them on theweb,but I did not write down his name. Maybe Bob B. or one of the others on thelist that attended the NFLCC show in Vegas in April can identify the ownerof the collection so I can give him his well deserved credit for his finecollection. Anyway, I came across them on a floppy that was lying around... I needed ablank floppy for something and when I saw these, I was jazzed at seeing themagain... http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 12 16:30:53 2001 f0CMUqe28235 Subject: Re: Length of grip on a Gilllum salmon rod Marty Keanes book has a color picture of a Gillum salmon rod with a all metaldetachable butt and a cork grip that looks a lot like the old Payne gripsbefore Jim. Resembles a Battenkill type grip only slightly shorter and fatter. Rich Christopher McDowell wrote: I looked over three Gillum's today. One was signed as a "H.S. Gillum","Custom Built". It had an uncharacteristic downlocking seat made with thesame tiger mahogany reelseat spacer and screwlock hardware as the othertwo which were uplocking. The Custom rod had the same grip shape as theother two except it had a rounded nose, so maybe we can't count that one. Anyway, the other two are original standard grip Gillum's. They are ReverseHalf Wells, with the waist being less dramatic then average. The back of thegrip where it meets the seat as well as the nose of the grip is flat. The 8'trout rod had 12 rings and the 9' 3 pc. salmon rod had 14 rings. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jan 12 16:50:32 2001 f0CMoVe29310 Subject: Re: Para 16 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C07CB2.7704CC80 Okay, let's try again. Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that =they are not willing to share, but will do so anyway, out of compassion =and benevolence, and because it is simply the right thing to do?Or, does anyone have the taper for the Para 16, not willing to share at =all, but is willing to taunt us with their possession? If so, please =include your address. Don't make me look it up. As it is I will only =break into your house, and record the measurements of the taper. If I =have to look you up, well . . . you won't like it. You won't like it at =all. M-D Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:29 PMSubject: Para 16 Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that they would be willing =to share? ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C07CB2.7704CC80 Okay, let's try again. = do so anyway, out of compassion and benevolence, and because it is = right thing to do?Or, does anyone havethe = the Para 16, not willing to share at all, but is willing to taunt us = possession? If so, please include your address. Don't make me look it = is I will only break into your house, and record the measurements of the = If I have to look you up, well . . . you won't like it. You won't like = all. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Jojo =DeLancier Collecting Sent: Thursday, January 11, = PMSubject: Para 16 Does anyone have the= share? ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C07CB2.7704CC80-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Jan 12 17:00:50 2001 f0CN0ne29787 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:00:03 -0800 Subject: Re: Para 16 Darrell Lee has a picture. Is that holding out? Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 2:12 PMSubject: Re: Para 16 Okay, let's try again. Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 thatthey are not willing to share, but will do so anyway, out of compassion andbenevolence, and because it is simply the right thing to do?Or, does anyone have the taper for the Para 16, not willing to share atall, but is willing to taunt us with their possession? If so, please includeyour address. Don't make me look it up. As it is I will only break into yourhouse, and record the measurements of the taper. If I have to look you up,well . . . you won't like it. You won't like it at all. M-D----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:29 PMSubject: Para 16 Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that they would be willing toshare? from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jan 12 17:11:58 2001 f0CNBve00222 Subject: Re: Para 16 I won't hold that against Darrell. As a taunt, however, it is sufficient tomerit you great scorn and derision. Fortunately, I haven't the time rightnow to look you up. Be very thankful for small favors.M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Para 16 Darrell Lee has a picture. Is that holding out? Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 2:12 PMSubject: Re: Para 16 Okay, let's try again. Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 thatthey are not willing to share, but will do so anyway, out of compassionandbenevolence, and because it is simply the right thing to do?Or, does anyone have the taper for the Para 16, not willing to share atall, but is willing to taunt us with their possession? If so, pleaseincludeyour address. Don't make me look it up. As it is I will only break intoyourhouse, and record the measurements of the taper. If I have to look you up,well . . . you won't like it. You won't like it at all. M-D----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:29 PMSubject: Para 16 Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that they would be willingtoshare? from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Fri Jan 12 17:12:09 2001 f0CNC8e00235 f0CNC4Q117176;Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:12:04 -0500 Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos DarrelThanks for photos of Paul Young rods great help to see what theorignals looked like ,a frend had aorignal PY perfectionest had a chance tolook it over, very graceful looking rod, he has a good picture of rodmaybe he will post it,Thanks Tony----- Original Message ----- Subject: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Gang, I forgot I took a bunch of photos of a collector who was showcasing hisoutstanding collection of PHY rods including the Para 15, 16, TexasGeneral,Martha Marie and some others. He gave me permission to post them on theweb,but I did not write down his name. Maybe Bob B. or one of the others onthelist that attended the NFLCC show in Vegas in April can identify the ownerof the collection so I can give him his well deserved credit for his finecollection. Anyway, I came across them on a floppy that was lying around... I needed ablank floppy for something and when I saw these, I was jazzed at seeingthemagain... http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 12 17:14:40 2001 f0CNEde00470 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C07CBB.2BAA8D20 Have had this happen. It's just a matter of a good tight ferrule to =ferrule station fit, and when the very small volume of trapped air in =the ferrule gets heated, along with the ferrule cement, they slowly =expand. In most cases, as the air and ferrule cement heat and expand =slowly, the ferrule will slowly push off of the station, BUT sometimes, =the ferrule is really tight, or the cement at the closed end of the =ferrule heats and softens before the cement at the serrated or open end. =When that happens, it will come off all at once and in a very big =hurry... had a couple that almost sounded like a rimfire rifle going =off. Never got hit by one, but always kept the ferrule pointed away = from myself during removal. Did spend about an hour looking for one =that shot across the shop one day, though. Later,bob -----Original Message-----From: Jim Tefft Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:04 PMSubject: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience Had my first experience with a male ferrule shooting off the end of =a rod section like it was shot from a pistol. Was heating a male ferrule =with the alcohol lamp when the male ferrule came off like a rocket. =Looks like you should always keep the ferrule being heated pointed away = from you or anyone else, just like a gun. Do not remember that in any of =my reading..must be under general shop instructions.....:-( Jim T ------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C07CBB.2BAA8D20 of a good tight ferrule to ferrule station fit, and when the very small = of trapped air in the ferrule gets heated, along with the ferrule = expand slowly, the ferrule will slowly push off of the station, BUT = the ferrule is really tight, or the cement at the closed end of the = happens, it will come off all at once and in a very big hurry... had a = but always kept the ferrule pointed away from myself during = though. Later,bob -----Original = rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, January 12, 2001 12:04 PMSubject: Warning = Male Ferrule ExperienceHad my first experience with a= shooting off the end of a rod section like it was shot from a = heating a male ferrule with the alcohol lamp when the male ferrule = like a rocket. Looks like you should always keep the ferrule being = pointed away from you or anyone else, just like a gun. Do not = instructions.....:-( Jim =T ------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C07CBB.2BAA8D20-- from HomeyDKlown@att.net Fri Jan 12 17:18:28 2001 f0CNIRe00877 ;Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:18:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Para 16 MD, I wasn't holding out on you. I had to wait until I got to work todiscover that what I thought was a Para 16 wasn't. Sorry, Dennis Jojo DeLancier wrote: Okay, let's try again. Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 thatthey are not willing to share, but will do so anyway, out ofcompassion and benevolence, and because it is simply the right thingto do?Or, does anyone have the taper for the Para 16, not willing to shareat all, but is willing to taunt us with their possession? If so,please include your address. Don't make me look it up. As it is I willonly break into your house, and record the measurements of the taper.If I have to look you up, well . . . you won't like it. You won't likeit at all. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:29 PMSubject: Para 16 Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that they wouldbe willing to share? from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jan 12 17:23:41 2001 f0CNNee01170 Subject: Re: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_c5.d051b07.2790ebcf_boundary I heated and pulled and heated some more and pulled (wooden set of ferrule pullers) on a male ferrule once - thought I'd never get it off. Then I heated it the third time and bang! To quote Jackie Gleason's Ralph Cramden -- "To the moon!" Didn't help the end ot the rod section either - it looked like someone had been chewing on it! Good thing I was removing the ferrule to scarf the tip anyway. Don Burns --part1_c5.d051b07.2790ebcf_boundary I heated and pulled andheated some more and pulled (wooden set of ferrule pullers) on a male ferrule once - thought I'd never get it off. Then I heated it the third time and bang! To quote Jackie Gleason's Ralph Cramden -- "To the moon!" Didn't help the end ot the rod section either - it looked like someone had been chewing on it! Good thing I was removing the ferrule to scarf the tip anyway. Don Burns --part1_c5.d051b07.2790ebcf_boundary-- from anglport@con2.com Fri Jan 12 17:56:02 2001 f0CNu1e02122 Subject: Re: Para 16 Weren't we commenting on Marty's composure only recently? I think the wrapgot wet and is slowly tightening....Art - no address or phone no.- Port ps: and you can forget about me showing up at that flea market without abodyguard, too! At 04:12 PM 01/12/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:the taper for the Para 16 that they are not willing to share, but will do so anyway, out of compassion and benevolence, and because it is simplythe right thing to do? Or, does anyone have the taper for the Para 16,not willing to share at all, but is willing to taunt us with their possession? If so, please include your address. Don't make me look it up.As it is I will only break into your house, and record the measurements ofthe taper. If I have to look you up, well . . . you won't like it. Youwon't like it at all. M-D ----- Original Message ----- From: 11:29 PM Subject: Para 16 > Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that they would be willingto share? from anglport@con2.com Fri Jan 12 18:01:33 2001 f0D01We02328 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience Bob,I can hardly picture someone staring down "the bore" of one of thesewhileheating it. Makes quite a thought. Wouldn't the alcohol lamp singe one'seyelashes?8^)Art At 05:14 PM 01/12/2001 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Did spend about an hour looking for one that shot across theshop one day, though. Later, bob - ----Original Message-----From: Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:04 PMSubject: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience Had my first experience with a male ferrule shooting off the endof a rod section like it was shot from a pistol. Was heating a maleferrule with the alcohol lamp when the male ferrule came off like arocket. Looks like you should always keep the ferrule being heated pointed away from you or anyone else, just like a gun. Do not rememberthatin any of my reading..must be under general shop instructions.....:-( Jim T from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 12 18:05:40 2001 f0D05de02564 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:05:31 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Perhaps one of you who are a little more computer savvy than I can explainthis.While drooling to open these photos I clicked on the thumbnail to enlarge andall I get is a big blank with a little square and question mark in it. I can seeall the other pictures on Darrell's site but not these ones. Is it somethingwrong in my settings or what??Shawn http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jan 12 18:16:15 2001 f0D0GEe02899 Subject: Re: Para 16 Hey, Arty . . .I've got a tight wrap for you -- it's called a garrote. Sleepwell tonight. (Fiendish smirk.)M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Para 16 Weren't we commenting on Marty's composure only recently? I think thewrapgot wet and is slowly tightening....Art - no address or phone no.- Port ps: and you can forget about me showing up at that flea market without abodyguard, too! At 04:12 PM 01/12/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:the taper for the Para 16 that they are not willing to share, butwilldo so anyway, out of compassion and benevolence, and because it issimplythe right thing to do? Or, does anyone have the taper for the Para 16,not willing to share at all, but is willing to taunt us with theirpossession? If so, please include your address. Don't make me look it up.As it is I will only break into your house, and record the measurementsofthe taper. If I have to look you up, well . . . you won't like it. Youwon't like it at all. M-D ----- Original Message ----- From: 200111:29 PM Subject: Para 16Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 that they would bewillingto share? from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 18:26:47 2001 f0D0Qke03284 2001 16:26:47 PST Subject: Tony Young Hi, Tony are you out there? Sent two messages so farand haven't heard from you. Anybody know if he's offfishing? Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jan 12 18:42:44 2001 f0D0ghe03657 Subject: PHY Bamboo Flyrods I got the same thing.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote: Perhaps one of you who are a little morecomputer savvy than I canexplain this.While drooling to open these photos I clicked onthe thumbnail to enlargeandall I get is a big blank with a little squareand question mark in it. Ican seeall the other pictures on Darrell's site but notthese ones. Is itsomethingwrong in my settings or what??Shawn http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Jan 12 18:48:00 2001 f0D0lxe03921 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos I created this page with a thumbnailer shareware program off ofdownload.cominstead of the usual Frontpage 2000. The program created a separate .htmpage for each photo i.e. the para15 thumbnail pic points tohttp://www.vfish.net/para15.htm not to a JPG file. The photos are in a badlynamed directory and I'll bet that is the problem. It works fine on my IE 5.5. Tonight or tommorrow, I'll work on it bychanging the subdirectory that the photos are in. Perhaps that is the sourceof the problems. So, those having problems, please try tommorrow. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Perhaps one of you who are a little more computer savvy than I can explainthis.While drooling to open these photos I clicked on the thumbnail to enlargeandall I get is a big blank with a little square and question mark in it. I canseeall the other pictures on Darrell's site but not these ones. Is it somethingwrong in my settings or what??Shawn http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 12 18:53:21 2001 f0D0rLe04151 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:53:14 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Para 16 Here's all I've found other than the clippings in the archives, I'mstill looking though! Shawn Parabolic 16 8'6" - 4.25 oz. - 17/64 Ferrules .078 & .086 Tips 6 & 7 Weight Lines Modified Parabolic Action $1,530/$1,930 Perhaps the most powerful rod per its weight ever produced inbamboo. The Para 16 embodies performance qualities best suited to largeriver systems andlakes. An excellent float tube rod and all around performer. Thisrod has a strong following among those who do a lot of nymph andstreamer fishing but alsowants a rod that will handle average to large dry flies. The Para 16not only serves as a super big water trout rod but excels in the warmwater fisheries aswell. Weather probing the depths with a sinking line or the surfacewith an attractor this rod will lay out a long leader and protect itwith grace. from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Fri Jan 12 19:00:04 2001 f0D104e04480 Subject: Re: PHY Bamboo Flyrods At 6:44 PM -0600 , 1/12/01, Tony Spezio wrote about PHY Bamboo FlyrodsI got the same thing.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote: Perhaps one of you who are a little morecomputer savvy than I canexplain this.While drooling to open these photos I clicked onthe thumbnail to enlargeandall I get is a big blank with a little squareand question mark in it. Ican seeall the other pictures on Darrell's site but notthese ones. Is itsomethingwrong in my settings or what??Shawn I looked at the source code for several of the pages. They all have a line similar to "Para15.JPG" I think the problem is in the "img src=" reference. There is a space between the 2000 and the 855a; are spaces allowed in URL references? I tried replacing the space with a -, a _, a /, and a couple others, but it still didn't work. Claude from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Jan 12 19:04:28 2001 f0D14Re04738 (63.228.46.108) Subject: Ferrule station cutter This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01C07CCA.64F9BBA0 Bought a set of Dave LeClair's ferrule station cutters. In a word they =are fantastic!Dave ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01C07CCA.64F9BBA0 Bought a set of Dave LeClair's = cutters. In a word they are fantastic!Dave ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01C07CCA.64F9BBA0-- from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jan 12 19:22:28 2001 f0D1MNe05229 Subject: Re: Para 16 Thanks, Shawn. Quite a valiant effort. You just may earn a lifetimeno-hard- feelings pass, unlike some. };^} (Mr. Devil, with an evil smirk.)M-D ----- Original Message ----- Here's all I've found other than the clippings in the archives, I'mstill looking though! Shawn Parabolic 16 8'6" - 4.25 oz. - 17/64 Ferrules .078 & .086 Tips 6 & 7 Weight Lines Modified Parabolic Action from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jan 12 19:32:46 2001 f0D1Wje06235 Subject: Re: Tony Young --part1_e.769bb72.279109ea_boundary In a message dated 1/12/01 4:27:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com writes: Hi, Tony are you out there? Sent two messages so farand haven't heard from you. Anybody know if he's offfishing? Thanks,Bill Walters Bill, The last I heard from Tony was that he was chained to his "real" desk job for 15 hours a day. Don Burns --part1_e.769bb72.279109ea_boundary In a message dated1/12/01 4:27:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com writes: Hi, Tony are youout there? Sent two messages so farand haven't heard from you. Anybody know if he's offfishing? Thanks,Bill Walters Bill, The last I heard from Tony was that he was chained to his "real" deskjob for 15 hours a day. Don Burns --part1_e.769bb72.279109ea_boundary-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 12 19:37:38 2001 f0D1bbe06703 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: One awesome website!!!!! Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family ( I instantly thought of youGeorge knowing your fondness for our hero!).It is a maze to navigate butjust keep going in circles and clicking on anything that will let youclick. There are pictures, letters, and you can even download MoreFishing Less Fussing for free. Enjoy!Shawnhttp://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 12 19:40:38 2001 f0D1ebe06931 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:40:33 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Darrell and all,Thanks Darrell, I opened IE and got the pictures fine.The problem was I was using Netscape. Must be a minor hiccup, Thanks forthephotos!!Shawn Darrell Lee wrote: I created this page with a thumbnailer shareware program off ofdownload.cominstead of the usual Frontpage 2000. The program created a separate.htmpage for each photo i.e. the para15 thumbnail pic points tohttp://www.vfish.net/para15.htm not to a JPG file. The photos are in abadlynamed directory and I'll bet that is the problem. It works fine on my IE 5.5. Tonight or tommorrow, I'll work on it bychanging the subdirectory that the photos are in. Perhaps that is thesourceof the problems. So, those having problems, please try tommorrow. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 5:02 PM Cc: Rod MakersSubject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Perhaps one of you who are a little more computer savvy than I can explainthis.While drooling to open these photos I clicked on the thumbnail to enlargeandall I get is a big blank with a little square and question mark in it. I canseeall the other pictures on Darrell's site but not these ones. Is it somethingwrong in my settings or what??Shawn http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net from djfinch@sprintmail.com Fri Jan 12 22:09:11 2001 f0D49Ae08622 UAA11968; Subject: Re: Butt Cap removal Hi Jim, the best trick that I use to pull pins or nails is to use atoe-nail clipper... hook on to it and use the clippers head to "fulcrum" it out...don't bite to tight or you'll cut it off ! good luck !regards Greg. Jim Tefft wrote: Need advice ! Have a butt cap with 2 nails holding it in a woodenreel seat. What is the best way to remove the nails and salvage them ?The rod appears to be a Heddon maybe a Lucky Angler.Jim T from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Jan 12 22:19:20 2001 f0D4JJe08951 Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos In a message dated 01/12/2001 3:02:51 PM PDT, darrell@rockclimbing.orgwrites: Darrell,Thanks for the pictures. It's like putting a face to a name. For years I've heard of the model names and have a lot of those tapers stashed someplace thanks to the generous nature of the souls on this list. I live in a cave and never get out to shows and none of my friends fish bamboo, so no one I know has any. Poor me :^(MikePS, are you exhibiting at the Fred Hall Show in Long Beach this year [I know it's pricey)? Again, I would like to put a face to the name. from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Jan 12 22:25:18 2001 f0D4PHe09188 Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 01/12/2001 9:19:43 PM PDT, Troutgetter@aol.comwrites: Darrell, >>Oh crud, sorry all. I meant to send that off listMike from dutcher@email.msn.com Sat Jan 13 00:46:37 2001 f0D6kae10808 Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:46:32 -0800 Subject: True Oil? What is true oil? I have seen it mentioned in connection with tung oilin the posts. I have used tung oil as a primer before applying varnish. Howdoes true oil fit in? Thank you in advance. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 13 08:02:02 2001 f0DE21e13485 ;Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:01:57 +0000 Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Good pictures Darryl. Thanks. Jack from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jan 13 08:37:55 2001 f0DEbse15265 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:37:53 -0800 Subject: Re: True Oil? Dick,I'll take a stab at this, though my knowledge is very limited. Tru-Oil isa Birchwood Casey product largely used in finishing or re-finishing gunstocks. It is a very thin wiping varnish, probably based on linseed oil. Assuch, it is a brand of product rather than a generic term like tung oil. Tungoil is an oil from a Chinese nut if I remember correctly. It is the base formany old varnishes. Tru-Oil works great for finishing reel seat fillers, because it's so easyto touch up. For that same reason, I'd be reluctant to use it on an entirerod, because it is fairly easily damaged and I have no idea how muchprotectionit provides. I've been thinking about making my own wiping varnish. It seems prettysimple - one part varnish, one part boiled linseed oil, and one partturpentine. Then again, at just a few dollars per bottle, Tru-Oil is pricedright. I'm sure there are others on here who can tell you more. Harry "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: What is true oil? I have seen it mentioned in connection with tung oilin the posts. I have used tung oil as a primer before applying varnish. Howdoes true oil fit in? Thank you in advance. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Jan 13 08:46:29 2001 f0DEkRe15958 Subject: Re: True Oil? =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker Tru-Oil works great for finishing reel seat fillers, because it's soeasyto touch up. For that same reason, I'd be reluctant to use it on anentirerod, because it is fairly easily damaged and I have no idea how muchprotectionit provides. I use Tung Oil, Tru-Oil, and Stock Sheen Conditioner on my rods. My mentorhas made over 70 rods and that is what he uses exclusively. He hasn't hadany problems with his rods being damaged. He also makes up a lemon wax(lemon oil extract and parafin) for his customers to wax their rods with from time to time. I've been thinking about making my own wiping varnish. It seemsprettysimple - one part varnish, one part boiled linseed oil, and one partturpentine. Then again, at just a few dollars per bottle, Tru-Oil ispricedright. Rev. Doc Harry, when you make it please send me some of it to try. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Sat Jan 13 09:33:38 2001 f0DFXbe17171 with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 07:37:19 -0800 Subject: Pezon Michel Fiberglass/Bamboo rod f0DFXce17172 One more interesting, historical rod I looked at yesterday was a butt sectionof fiberglass and the tip of bamboo. I've heard of this before, probably onthis list or in a book. The bamboo tip was 4' to 4 1/2' long and the fiberglassbutt was 2 1/2' to 3' long, I didn't measure them. Rather then a staggeredrod bag, the company made a very long bamboo ferrule plug for the buttsection which made it equal length to the tip section when in the bag andtube. The rod felt very parabolic when wiggling it, light in the butt andheavier in the tip, but the owner says it casts like a dry fly action with a5DT. It had very fine writing on the butt that read "Designed by Charles Ritz workmanship looked very nice to me. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 13 10:29:56 2001 f0DGTte17690 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:20:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Warning Danger ---- Male Ferrule Experience This is a pretty common experience, and I always hope for it to happen, so Idon't have to use a puller, etc. ! I just "aim" it at the back of the benchwall, and the missile will stay in the area !GMA from eparr@bellsouth.net Sat Jan 13 11:02:21 2001 f0DH2Ke18100 Subject: (no subject) please unscribe me...thankeparr@bellsouth.net from jon@twinpinesrods.com Sat Jan 13 12:21:23 2001 f0DILMe19011 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Hello, to old freinds and new ones too. This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3062229485_201732_MIME_Part Just wanted to say hello. I'm back on the list again and hope to be moreactive here and in the rod shop again. We moved out here to Longmont, Colorado just over a year ago. My wife andIlived in a small apartment for a while and last summer bought a house. I'mjust finishing up a rod shop area in the basement and hope to start a newrod this weekend. Longmont is small City north of Denver. I am 45 minutes from being in theRocky Mountain Park and some of my favorite fishing areas. I see the frontrange mountains every day. I work for the City of Longmont as NeighborhoodResources Coordinator in a job that takes up to much of my time ;-). Life is good, except there is still not enough time to fish and rod build. The rods I'll be starting are two 8' 5/6wt based on Wayne Cottanach's 6'3"4wt with some major and minor tweaking :-). I have built 4 of these rods inthe past and have sold them all to fulfill my commitments before I leftFlorida. It was good to see Jon Parker at the Denver show last weekend. I'm lookingforward to sharing with and learning from this list once again. --MS_Mac_OE_3062229485_201732_MIME_Part Hello, to old freinds and new ones too. be more active here and in the rod shop again. wife=and I lived in a small apartment for a while and last summer bought a house= art a new rod this weekend. in=the Rocky Mountain Park and some of my favorite fishing areas. I see thefr=ont range mountains every day. I work for the City of Longmont asNeighborho=od Resources Coordinator in a job that takes up to much of my time ;-). Life is good, except there is still not enough time to fish and rod build. The rods I'll be starting are two 8' 5/6wt based on Wayne Cottanach's6'3&q= se rods in the past and have sold them all to fulfill my commitments before =I left Florida. lo=oking forward to sharing with and learning from this list once again. --MS_Mac_OE_3062229485_201732_MIME_Part-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jan 13 15:27:43 2001 f0DLRge21112 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:27:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Hello, to old freinds and new ones too. Hi Jonathan,Welcom back. You just missed another Terry A. episode,so perhaps your timing is perfect! Good to have you"expanding the envelope" around here again. Harry Boyd Jonathan Clarke wrote: Just wanted to say hello. I'm back on the list again andhope to be more active here and in the rod shop again. We moved out here to Longmont, Colorado just over a yearago. My wife and I lived in a small apartment for a whileand last summer bought a house. I'm just finishing up arod shop area in the basement and hope to start a new rodthis weekend. Longmont is small City north of Denver. I am 45 minutes from being in the Rocky Mountain Park and some of myfavorite fishing areas. I see the front range mountainsevery day. I work for the City of Longmont as NeighborhoodResources Coordinator in a job that takes up to much of mytime ;-). Life is good, except there is still not enough time tofish and rod build. The rods I'll be starting are two 8' 5/6wt based on WayneCottanach's 6'3" 4wt with some major and minor tweaking:-). I have built 4 of these rods in the past and havesold them all to fulfill my commitments before I leftFlorida. It was good to see Jon Parker at the Denver show lastweekend. I'm looking forward to sharing with and learning from this list once again. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jan 13 16:08:36 2001 f0DM8Ze21725 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Pezon Michel Fiberglass/Bamboo rod Chris, I have one of those hybrids. Mine is 8'2" and is marked :"RitzVariopower HS/HL 8'2" Specially Made For Norm Thompson By Pezon EtMichel" I believe they made them in 2 lengths, a 7'1" and an 8'2". Ithas a true Parabolic action . In 1966 Norm Thompson catalog they sold Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jan 13 16:55:20 2001 f0DMtIe22567 Subject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receive aCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. This little piece of crapwill assign your computer a number, then every time you log onto theInternet it will send back to its origin a file of every single page youvisit while online. Nice, huh? Excuse me now. I must go and uninstall thisworthless dungware. I'd like to uninstall whomever is responsible for . . .M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: One awesome website!!!!! Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family ( I instantly thought of youGeorge knowing your fondness for our hero!).It is a maze to navigate butjust keep going in circles and clicking on anything that will let youclick. There are pictures, letters, and you can even download MoreFishing Less Fussing for free. Enjoy!Shawnhttp://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Jan 13 17:04:10 2001 f0DN49e22887 +0000 Subject: Tournament Fly Rod Tapers The following tapers have all been reproduced from ; 'Tournament Fly and Bait Casting' by Earl Osten and published by Barnesin 1946. All tapers are for calibrations measured at six inch intervals and arein sixty fourths of an inch measured from the tip top to the grip.( why in sixty fourths of an inch beats me ? ) Three piece Wet Fly Accuracy Rods;Specification A Length 9'Tip,6,7,9,10,11,12,13;joint,14,15,16,18,19,19,20;Butt,20,21,22,23,26.Weight,53/4oz Specification B Length 9'Tip,6,8,10,11,12,13,13;Joint,13,14,16,17,18,19,19;Butt,19,20,22,23,26.Weight,61/4oz Specification C Length 9'Tip,6,7,8,9,11,12,13:Joint,13,15,17,18,18,19,19;Butt,19,21,22,23,26Weight,53/4oz Where Specification A is credited to Clark Johnston, St.Louis,Mo.andSpecification C being credited to Chas L Schall,St Louis,Mo. Three Piece Dry Fly Accuracy Rods;Specification A Length 9'Tip,5,6,7,9,10,11,11;Joint,12,14,15,16,17,18,18;Butt,19,20,21,22,25Weight 53/4oz Specification B Length 8'9 1/2"Tip,5,6,7,8,9,10,11;Joint,11,13,14,15,17,18,19:Butt,19,20,21,22,24.Weight 53/8oz Specification C Length 9'Tip,5,6,7,8,9,11,11:Joint,12,13,14,15,16,18,19;Butt,19,19,20,22,24.Weight 53/8oz Where specification A is credited to Clark Johnston,St Louis,Mo.Specification B to Chas L Schall,St Louis,Mo and Specification Cto Wm J Lovely,St Louis,Mo. Long Distance Trout Fly Rod ( Two Piece )Tip,.120,.180,.220,.240,.262,.268,.270,.280,.304,.329;Butt,.329,.363,.400,.402,.425,.457,.504,.512,.512.This rod being described as an Effective Tournament Model and highlyrecommended.Weight,8oz. Trust the above is useful to some of you ?The Tournament Bait Casting Tapers will be posted later this comingweek.Regards all,Paul from robert.warholm@home.com Sat Jan 13 17:49:11 2001 f0DNnAe23456 0800 Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos & a question??? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01C07D81.9F1CECA0 Sorry - Think I sent this wrong the first time - Try & Try again till I =get it right O.K. Now I've Got a question, Great photos, But what is with theGrips!!!.... Pls. forgive my ignorance in this matter I have been monitoring the list =forabout 3-4 months, thanks to the "Canadian Fly Fisher" Magazinie =articale. Iam a "Newbie" as you all would say. Live in Calgary, home of the Blue =RibbonBow, walk out the front door with the waders on an in 5 minutes I amEnjoying an average catch of 8-10 Browns in a two hour evening after =work ondries , 50% over the 16-18 mark - how Good can life be... . anyhow I =expectto start tooling up and building rods in the next month or so after my =peakwork season is over. Love the idea of the details... precision... etc =thatis involved - right up my alley. Hence I end my digression. I have never seen anything like this before. The groves, or should I =sayTREDS, are very interesting but I have never seen them on a grip before. =Isthis just some kind of signiture/selling feature, or do these actually =servea real purpose/function. Would this feature feel uncomfortable after a =daysuse for those of you who use on have used one? Does it give a real gripadvantage over just a standard smooth grip? Secondly, how is this done. I have Ideas but I'll let you moreknowledgable addicts (sure I'll be one soon) expound on the subject as =I amsure there are other with the same question. Thanks Rob W. -----Original Message----- Subject: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Gang, I forgot I took a bunch of photos of a collector who was showcasing hisoutstanding collection of PHY rods including the Para 15, 16, TexasGeneral,Martha Marie and some others. He gave me permission to post them on theweb,but I did not write down his name. Maybe Bob B. or one of the others on =thelist that attended the NFLCC show in Vegas in April can identify the =ownerof the collection so I can give him his well deserved credit for his =finecollection. Anyway, I came across them on a floppy that was lying around... I =needed ablank floppy for something and when I saw these, I was jazzed at seeingthemagain... http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01C07D81.9F1CECA0 Sorry - Think I sent this wrong the first time - Try = again till I get it right theGrips!!!....Pls. forgive my ignorance in this matter I = monitoring the list forabout 3-4 months, thanks to the = Fisher" Magazinie articale. Iam a "Newbie" as you all = say. Live in Calgary, home of the Blue RibbonBow, walk out the front = 8-10 Browns in a two hour evening after work ondries , 50% over the = mark - how Good can life be... . anyhow I expectto start tooling up = - right up my alley. Hence I end my digression.I have never seen = interesting but I have never seen them on a grip before. Isthis just = purpose/function. Would this feature feel uncomfortable after a = those of you who use on have used one? Does it give a real = I have Ideas but I'll let you moreknowledgable addicts (sure I'll be = Rod Makers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = write down his name. Maybe Bob B. or one of the others on = attended the NFLCC show in Vegas in April can identify the = = they are, hope you enjoy ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01C07D81.9F1CECA0-- from lblan@provide.net Sat Jan 13 18:19:39 2001 f0E0Jde23985 Subject: RE: One awesome website!!!!! I have a small (32k) file that will remove "adware" from your system. Don'tremember where I found it, but if anyone wants a copy, let me know. I didn't get the comet cursor this time, I believe it actually gave you anoption not to add it?? Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 5:50 PM Cc: and CollectingSubject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receive aCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. This littlepiece of crapwill assign your computer a number, then every time you log onto theInternet it will send back to its origin a file of every single page youvisit while online. Nice, huh? Excuse me now. I must go and uninstall thisworthless dungware. I'd like to uninstall whomever is responsible M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:34 PMSubject: One awesome website!!!!! Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family ( I instantly thought of youGeorge knowing your fondness for our hero!).It is a maze to navigate butjust keep going in circles and clicking on anything that will let youclick. There are pictures, letters, and you can even download MoreFishing Less Fussing for free. Enjoy!Shawnhttp://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from across@www.downandacross.com Sat Jan 13 18:26:01 2001 f0E0Q0e24226 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos & a question??? I think that is what you call a ventilated grip. A few South Bends I have had through here have had them also. They feel much better than they look, although I don;t get the point either,As fantastic as the PHY tapers are, I personally don't think the rods are going to win any beauty pagents for their appointments. (Mine either, BTW)How long will it take for someone to flame me for that one? You out there George?Bob I have never seen anything like this before. The groves, or should I sayTREDS, are very interesting but I have never seen them on a grip before. Isthis just some kind of signiture/selling feature, or do these actually servea real purpose/function. Would this feature feel uncomfortable after adaysuse for those of you who use on have used one? Does it give a real gripadvantage over just a standard smooth grip? Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jan 13 18:45:15 2001 f0E0jEe24524 Subject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! Art, and others: The CometCursor did not appear, nor install until I was on the second page.At the bottom of that page, on the left-hand side is an icon that tells youit's CometCursor. Apparently, this program is part of a package that onegets when using Homestead as the server/software provider for the website.CometCursor is freeware that collects information for marketing purposes,and is one of the underwriters/sponsors for the web hosting. I am using MSIE 5.X for the browser, and this may account for why some are not gettingbitten.Look in your directory, use Windows Explorer, under Windows/ProgramFiles/Comet. If it installed this is where it is. There is a .dll filewithin that file that is the spyware portion of the download. To uninstallthe whole shebang, go to Control Panel/Add-Remove Programs, and highlightthe Comet Cursor web extension heading. Hit the Add/Remove button and itwill delete both of the CometCursor headings found there. Click on OK forevery little window that opens thereafter. You will have to remove the Cometfile, under the Program files, manually. Highlight it, then hold down Shift,then Delete. You will be asked if you want to delete, click Ok, it will tellyou that the *.exe file is a program file, etc. Click Yes. Done.Maybe this is all my fault for not having my firewall running. A lesson forthe wise. M-D Art, I'm not done with you yet. };^} ----- Original Message ----- I got "froze" when I was only on page one (I think). I didn't noticeanything new on my 'puter. If I got one would it be obvious? If not canyoutell me how to ferret out the little f***er?What's its file name?Thanks,Art At 04:49 PM 01/13/2001 -0600, you wrote:Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receive aCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. This little piece ofcrap . . . ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family > >>Shawnhttp://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 13 19:46:16 2001 f0E1kFe25169 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:46:07 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! Claude and all,sorry about that, I had no problems on the site. I justthought it was an awesome bit of info on the man. Once again I apologize ifthis caused anyone any problems.Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receive aCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. This little piece of crapwill assign your computer a number, then every time you log onto theInternet it will send back to its origin a file of every single page youvisit while online. Nice, huh? Excuse me now. I must go and uninstall thisworthless dungware. I'd like to uninstall whomever is responsible for . . .M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:34 PMSubject: One awesome website!!!!! Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family ( I instantly thought of youGeorge knowing your fondness for our hero!).It is a maze to navigate butjust keep going in circles and clicking on anything that will let youclick. There are pictures, letters, and you can even download MoreFishing Less Fussing for free. Enjoy!Shawnhttp://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jan 13 20:05:51 2001 f0E25oe25548 Subject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! Shawn,No problems on this end, and I appreciate you sharing the site with us. Itwas quite interesting, even without considering the download. ;o) from whatI gathered that site was put up by Deanne Young, Paul's granddaughter.Since I get the List as a daily digest I am not aware of what else is beingwritten about this by others. I'll have to wait until tomorrow afternoon. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Claude and all,sorry about that, I had no problems on the site. Ijustthought it was an awesome bit of info on the man. Once again I apologizeifthis caused anyone any problems.Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receive aCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family > > >http://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan 13 20:22:27 2001 f0E2MQe25914 Subject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! Shawn,You and I are in the same boat. I'm using Netscape and while I didn't havea problem with your recommended site (though the SOB froze me up at somepoint - just like it said it might), neither can I view Darrell's PHYpictures.Oh well...Art At 09:42 PM 01/13/2001 -0500, Shawn Pineo wrote:Claude and all,sorry about that, I had no problems on the site. Ijustthought it was an awesome bit of info on the man. Once again I apologize ifthis caused anyone any problems.Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receive aCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. This little piece ofcrapwill assign your computer a number, then every time you log onto theInternet it will send back to its origin a file of every single page youvisit while online. Nice, huh? Excuse me now. I must go and uninstall thisworthless dungware. I'd like to uninstall whomever is responsible for . . .M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:34 PMSubject: One awesome website!!!!! Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family ( I instantly thought of youGeorge knowing your fondness for our hero!).It is a maze to navigatebutjust keep going in circles and clicking on anything that will let youclick. There are pictures, letters, and you can even download MoreFishing Less Fussing for free. Enjoy!Shawnhttp://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jan 13 20:40:23 2001 f0E2eMe26205 Subject: Para 16, yet again This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C07DA0.9F3BA720 Para 16, wheeeere aaaare yooouuuuu? (Sounds like the makings of a good =TV sitcom, huh?) ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C07DA0.9F3BA720 Para 16, wheeeereaaaare = huh?) ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C07DA0.9F3BA720-- from timklein@qwest.net Sat Jan 13 20:49:17 2001 f0E2nGe26458 (63.225.241.215) Subject: Re: Hello, to old freinds and new ones too. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C07D99.A11BDD00 Hello, to old freinds and new ones too.Welcome to the neighborhood! How =long ago did you relocate? I live up in Broomfield, but I work in Longmont (out by the Airport) at =Amgen. I know all about spending too much time on the job. I usually use my =unheated garage as the excuse for not working on rods in the wintertime, =and the same excuse usually works for summer (only then it's due to my =un-airconditioned garage). The "too much work, not enough free time" =excuse is used to fill the pleasant weather gaps in the spring and fall. Good luck getting the shop back up. I'd be happy to help if you need a =hand with anything. ---Tim Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 10:18 AMSubject: Hello, to old freinds and new ones too. Just wanted to say hello. I'm back on the list again and hope to be =more active here and in the rod shop again. We moved out here to Longmont, Colorado just over a year ago. My wife =and I lived in a small apartment for a while and last summer bought a =house. I'm just finishing up a rod shop area in the basement and hope =to start a new rod this weekend. Longmont is small City north of Denver. I am 45 minutes from being in =the Rocky Mountain Park and some of my favorite fishing areas. I see the =front range mountains every day. I work for the City of Longmont as =Neighborhood Resources Coordinator in a job that takes up to much of my =time ;-). Life is good, except there is still not enough time to fish and rod =build. The rods I'll be starting are two 8' 5/6wt based on Wayne Cottanach's =6'3" 4wt with some major and minor tweaking :-). I have built 4 of =these rods in the past and have sold them all to fulfill my commitments =before I left Florida. It was good to see Jon Parker at the Denver show last weekend. I'm = ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C07D99.A11BDD00 Hello, to old freinds and new ones too. Welcome to the neighborhood! How long ago did relocate? I live up in = in Longmont (out by the Airport) at Amgen. (only then it's due to my un-airconditioned garage). The "too much work, = enough free time" excuse is used to fill the pleasant weather gaps in = and fall. if you need a hand with anything. ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Clarke Sent: Saturday, January 13, = AMSubject: Hello, to old freinds = ones too. and hope to be more active here and in the rod shop again.We = a small apartment for a while and last summer bought a house. = finishing up a rod shop area in the basement and hope to start a new = = from being in the Rocky Mountain Park and some of my favorite fishing = see the front range mountains every day. I work for the City of = Neighborhood Resources Coordinator in a job that takes up to much of = ;-).Life is good, except there is still not enough time to = rod build.The rods I'll be starting are two 8' 5/6wt based on = built 4 of these rods in the past and have sold them all to fulfill my = commitments before I left Florida.It was good to see Jon = learning from this list once again. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C07D99.A11BDD00-- from martinj@aa.net Sat Jan 13 21:24:17 2001 f0E3OGe27163 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:24:13 -0800 "Shawn Pineo" , Subject: RE: One awesome website!!!!! this site has what is called "ad ware". It looks for software that sendsinfo to other sites about the sites you are visiting. It ID's it and letsyou delete it.http://www.lavasoft.de/ Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! Shawn,No problems on this end, and I appreciate you sharing the site with us. Itwas quite interesting, even without considering the download. ;o) from whatI gathered that site was put up by Deanne Young, Paul's granddaughter.Since I get the List as a daily digest I am not aware of what else is beingwritten about this by others. I'll have to wait until tomorrow afternoon. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Claude and all,sorry about that, I had no problems on the site. Ijustthought it was an awesome bit of info on the man. Once again I apologizeifthis caused anyone any problems.Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receive aCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped across thissite about Paul H Young and his family > > >http://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jan 13 21:51:24 2001 f0E3pNe27617 Subject: Re: One awesome website!!!!! MartinGreat info. There is another site, that I should have posted in my earlierpost, with similar testing software: www.grc.com There are severalinteresting privacy issues there but the program to test for the spyware iscalled OptOut. For funnsies, check out the Probe My Ports, and the Test MyShields tests. You all might be a little surprised. Everything on the siteis written in assembly language so any downloads are at lightspeed. It'sworth the look.M-D ----- Original Message ----- this site has what is called "ad ware". It looks for software that sendsinfo to other sites about the sites you are visiting. It ID's it and letsyou delete it.http://www.lavasoft.de/ Martin Jensen ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Claude and all,sorry about that, I had no problems on the site.Ijustthought it was an awesome bit of info on the man. Once again I apologizeifthis caused anyone any problems.Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be forewarned! Should you decide to visit this site, you will receiveaCometCursor download whether you want it, or not. ----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Guys,while searching for info on the Para 16 I tripped acrossthissite about Paul H Young and his family > > >http://www.homestead.com/ausable/young.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 13 21:52:24 2001 f0E3qNe27736 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:52:20 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Para 16, yet again I'm still trying, dont give up yet Claude! Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Para 16, wheeeere aaaare yooouuuuu? (Sounds like the makings of a goodTV sitcom, huh?) from dutcher@email.msn.com Sat Jan 13 21:54:31 2001 f0E3sUe27961 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:54:25 -0800 Subject: Totally Off Subject Gentlemen,If you like cigars and rye whiskey point and click. http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/Aficionado/drinks/ryetasting.html Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 13 22:31:13 2001 f0E4VCe28615 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:21:40 -0600 Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos & a question??? PHY just used a piece of folded sandpaper to cut/sand those grip grooves,when he was turning it to begin with. I've tried it, and found no realadvantage, unless you constantly get the whole grip and hand wet ! When you have the grip all finished sanded, this is when you add thegrooves, if you want them. GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Jan 13 22:37:43 2001 f0E4bge28793 Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:26:49 -0600 "RODMAKERS" Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos & a question??? No argument on those grips from me guys. Don't ever forget Paul was afisherman, with gills under his collar, before he ever made a rod ! He didexperimental things as HE wanted to fish them ! That collection is reallyunique in just having those personal and experimental PHY rods ! GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jan 14 10:35:39 2001 f0EGZde03879 sender ) Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos & a question??? Bob, A few Heddons also had the ventiated grip. They were the Marvin Hedgesmodels. The also had the raised composite thumb rest and very unsightlynurledferrules. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: I think that is what you call a ventilated grip. A few South Bends I havehad through here have had them also. They feel much better than theylook,although I don;t get the point either,As fantastic as the PHY tapers are, I personally don't think the rods aregoing to win any beauty pagents for their appointments. (Mine either, BTW)How long will it take for someone to flame me for that one? You out thereGeorge?Bob I have never seen anything like this before. The groves, or should I sayTREDS, are very interesting but I have never seen them on a grip before.Isthis just some kind of signiture/selling feature, or do these actually servea real purpose/function. Would this feature feel uncomfortable after adaysuse for those of you who use on have used one? Does it give a real gripadvantage over just a standard smooth grip? Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Jan 14 12:08:22 2001 f0EI8Le04981 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: www.vfish.net PHY Photo Gallery Upgraded for Netscape users...Pleasetest Gang, I've moved and changed the photo links so I think everyone should be able toview them now... In particular the Netscape browsers should now work.Pleaselet me know as I don't have Netscape and cannot tell if it works. Try itagain... www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm BTW, we have a winner of a book on bamboo rods by Dal Hubbard for beingthe500th subscriber to my newsletter. I don't know if he is a lister or not...The 1,000th subscriber will win a vintage bamboo fly rod. Darrellwww.vfish.net from across@www.downandacross.com Sun Jan 14 12:33:38 2001 f0EIXbe05394 Subject: disc sander nodeless HI Guys:What grade paper is recommended for using a disc sander to cut nodeless splices? I am trying to give this method a legitimate try. How rough is too rough? Any ideas? Also, has anyone found that sanded splices hold up better or worse than planed ones? I apologize if this is rehashing past discussions, but I can't seem to find the thread.Best regards, Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from across@www.downandacross.com Sun Jan 14 13:15:52 2001 f0EJFpe06004 (38.26.210.212) Subject: Re: disc sander nodeless Hi Joe:That's exactly how I have been doing it for a couple years now. I just wondered if the disc sander could speed me up a bit. Do you ever find your Munro splice block is too big to hold some of your sections snuggly? Maybe I will use the sander to take some metal off the inside of the splice blocks instead!Bob At 01:55 PM 1/14/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Bob: I build nodeless exclusively. Gave up those frustrating nodes a long timeago. I don't use a sander. I have one of Jon Lintvet's scarfing blocks,and just use a hand plane. After planing I run a bastard mill file over ita couple of times before taking it out of the block. Result, almost perfectscarfs (too humble to claim a perfect scarf). Call me at 423-288-7930 if you have any questions on the nodelesstechnique. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker HI Guys:What grade paper is recommended for using a disc sander to cutnodelesssplices? I am trying to give this method a legitimate try. How rough istoorough? Any ideas? Also, has anyone found that sanded splices hold upbetteror worse than planed ones? I apologize if this is rehashing pastdiscussions, but I can't seem to find the thread.Best regards, Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 14 13:44:26 2001 f0EJiPe06454 Subject: Sanding block rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Awhile back someone asked me for my design for the sanding block I use to remove glue from blanks and for final sanding. Whomever that was please contact me as I need your address again. Like all gun builders and rod builders I am always behind on getting things sent out.Bret from channer1@rmi.net Sun Jan 14 15:24:50 2001 f0ELOne07855 14:24:50 -0700 Subject: Re: www.vfish.net PHY Photo Gallery Upgraded for Netscape users... Pleasetest Darrell;They come up just fine now. Only one problem, I want em all!! I'll robthe bank if you can talk him into selling them.lolJOhn Darrell Lee wrote: Gang, I've moved and changed the photo links so I think everyone should be abletoview them now... In particular the Netscape browsers should now work.Pleaselet me know as I don't have Netscape and cannot tell if it works. Try itagain... www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm BTW, we have a winner of a book on bamboo rods by Dal Hubbard for beingthe500th subscriber to my newsletter. I don't know if he is a lister or not...The 1,000th subscriber will win a vintage bamboo fly rod. Darrellwww.vfish.net from jojo@ipa.net Sun Jan 14 17:22:08 2001 f0ENM7e09999 Subject: For California Rodmakers Only This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01C07E4E.150E9540 Would those California Rodmakers who might be interested in discussing a =Saltwater rod with this gentleman, please contact him. The only info I =can offer is that he fishes for Tuna, and Marlin. Sounds as though =bamboo broomsticks might be in order. If I receive any more info will =forward to the List. Contact: Mark Cernich = Martin-Darrell ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01C07E4E.150E9540 Would those California= please contact him. The only info I can offer is that he fishes for = any more info will forward to the List. Martin-Darrell ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01C07E4E.150E9540-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 14 17:58:01 2001 f0ENw1e10483 Subject: Re: Sanding block rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,Some of you may already be using the same sanding block I am talking about here. I know Harry is. It is modeled after the little sanding block by Exacto. One inch wide four inches long with slots to put the paper in. This thing works great for sanding a blank, a lot faster I have found than a file like Wayne uses.Bret from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Jan 14 20:20:41 2001 f0F2Kee12090 2001 18:20:41 PST Subject: Re: Para 16 jjo and all, i sware i have had my hands on a para16taper. this is frustrating. now i have not been ableto find anyone who has it. does it exist? timothy --- Jojo DeLancier wrote:Okay, let's try again. Does anyone have the taper but will do so anyway, out of compassion andbenevolence, and because it is simply the rightthing to do?Or, does anyone have the taper for the Para 16, notwilling to share at all, but is willing to taunt uswith their possession? If so, please include youraddress. Don't make me look it up. As it is I willonly break into your house, and record themeasurements of the taper. If I have to look you up,well . . . you won't like it. You won't like it atall. M-D----- Original Message ----- From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:29 PMSubject: Para 16 Does anyone have the taper for the Para 16 thatthey would be willing to share? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from dutcher@email.msn.com Sun Jan 14 21:26:39 2001 f0F3Qce12792 Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:26:34 -0800 Subject: Para 16 ... and we all know what happens to someone who taunts Jojo. Tisk tisk. DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from utzerath@execpc.com Sun Jan 14 21:53:42 2001 f0F3rge13216 f0F3qHL57473; f0F3qGt16681; Subject: Re: disc sander nodeless Bob, I do tips nodeless most of the time. I was warned that planing made asmoother (read better) glue joint so I did some comparisons with a low powermicroscope. To get the scarf as smooth as a planed one, I needed 120 gritdisks and knocked the high grit down a little with another piece of similarpaper. I also sand with a sliding motion which I will describe. I use an 8" disk attachment made by Craftsman for use on a table saw withpaper on both sides. Next I made a pair (right and left handed) of jigsthat have slides which fit into the groves for the saw's miter. I have nothad a scarf fail using URAC 185 (except once when I failed to cure at a highenough temperature). I can send a photo if you want. Jim U HI Guys:What grade paper is recommended for using a disc sander to cut nodelesssplices? I am trying to give this method a legitimate try. How rough istoorough? Any ideas? Also, has anyone found that sanded splices hold upbetteror worse than planed ones? I apologize if this is rehashing pastdiscussions, but I can't seem to find the thread.Best regards, Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from jetskier@inter-linc.net Sun Jan 14 22:12:35 2001 f0F4CYe13661 Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:16:05 -0600 Subject: Fastners for Planing Forms Hi all, I'm new to the list, been wanting to build a rod for a long time, took me 6months to get a copy of Mr. Cattanach's book. Lately I have been trying to get tools and materials to build my first rod.I decided to try and build my own planing forms in accordance withMr. Cattanachs description in his book. But, I am having trouble locatingfastners for the planing forms. Any, help such as a place online would begreatly appreciated. Thank YouTravis from kurt.clement@usa.net Sun Jan 14 22:31:24 2001 f0F4VNe14031 mailer(34FM.0700.15A.01) on Mon Jan 15 04:31:24 GMT 2001 Subject: Node Pressing - Heat Required f0F4VOe14037 Hello, I'm new to rodmaking and working on my first rod using Howell's book. Finished flaming today to a caramel color and trimed off the lower twosections on the butt of the culm due to damaged enamel and wrinkles fromstraightening. Split this section into 1/4" strips to practice heating andpressing nodes and working with the material. I had filed the nodes beforeflaming. I am having problems straightening the nodes. Using a Wagner/Milwaukeeheatgun on high, and I am heating the pith side of the strip about 1" from thenozzle. I am getting charing and of the pith side after a few minutes ofheating, but the strip does not seem to be getting flexible enough to bend. Do I need less heat for a longer period, or should I just keep going until itstarts to get flexible? After one burst into flames, I thought I had betterseek some advice. Thanks - Kurt in SW Missouri ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 from callrods@teleport.com Mon Jan 15 03:52:10 2001 f0F9q9e16929 Organization: Callaway Rod & Tackle Company Subject: Troutdale Gathering 2001 80ACDDCF980611ED7C126C6F" --------------80ACDDCF980611ED7C126C6F Troutdale Gathering 2001 Finally, someone is going to tell you what is going on. To start this off, the dates of the gathering are May 5 and 6. This isthe first year that we have tried a two day program and I am hoping thatit will have plenty to offer everyone. This is what I know so far. The first day (Sat. 5) will have a similarformat to previous years with a meeting at the Troutdale CommunityCenter. As for Sunday the 6th, we have access to the Wilderness Lakesfishing facility about 20 miles south or Portland. There are threeprivate lakes to choose from with Rainbow to 7 lbs, Black bass, bluegill and crappie. The lakes are private and pleasant and we will havethe whole place to ourselves. Now comes the problems. I have an opinion that the most prominentreason we enjoy getting together is for social fellowship and thereassurance that although we are insane to the rest of the world, we arenot alone. With that in mind, I would like to put together a programthat has a smorgasbord of events rather that the more stagnant seateddiscussions or presentations. This type of program would allow people topick and choose from a scheduled list of events and still have thefreedom to socialize. The problem is, this style requires a largecommitment from the attendees to participate. So our first hurdle is toget people who are willing to offer up any type of demonstration. Thedemonstration could range from the preparing and presenting of a handoutto showing off a piece of equipment or procedure. It does not have to belong or involved just of interest to rodmakers. I would appreciatehearing any feedback on this idea (good or bad) and I would especiallyenjoy hearing from people who are willing to participate. Without thegroups involvement it will be very difficult to create a successfulgathering. The next question involves money and time. As I understand it from GaryLohkamp, we are allowed to use the Troutdale facility with thestipulation that we do not charge admission. And I would certainly liketo continue that tradition. There is however the question of being fedand watered. What is the feeling of the attendees to the following:having a catered lunch (probably about 15.00), and meeting at arestaurant for an unhosted dinner. Also, there is the cost of thefishing trip. Access for the day is 500.00 for the group. If we dividethat up it is not bad (10-20.00 depending on attendance). would you alsolike a catered lunch for the fishing trip?. If we go with the cateredlunches etc. the cost of the gathering could be around 50 to 60.00. Iwould like to hear your preference to being catered or left to fend foryourselves. I will go with the majority response on this one. Lastly, who do you blame for this- My name is Kevin Callaway and I canbe reached at callrods@teleport.com or (503) 590-3120 eve. If I havefigured out a way to hide from you, you can contact Chris Obuchowski atChristopherO@epicimaging.com If you are planning to attend, please drop one of us a note so we canstart figuring a head count. The formal registration info should go outsoon. Thank you --------------80ACDDCF980611ED7C126C6F Troutdale Gathering 2001Finally, someone is going to tell you what is going on. This is the first year that we have tried a two day program and I am hopingthat it will have plenty to offer everyone. a similar format to previous years with a meeting at the TroutdaleCommunityCenter. As for Sunday the 6th, we have access to the Wilderness Lakesfishingfacility about 20 miles south or Portland. There are three private lakesto choose from with Rainbow to 7 lbs, Black bass, blue gill and crappie.The lakes are private and pleasant and we will have the whole place toourselves. prominentreason we enjoy getting together is for social fellowship and the reassurancethat although we are insane to the rest of the world, we are not alone.With that in mind, I would like to put together a program that has asmorgasbordof events rather that the more stagnant seated discussions orpresentations.This type of program would allow people to pick and choose from a scheduledlist of events and still have the freedom to socialize. The problem is,this style requires a large commitment from the attendees to participate.So our first hurdle is to get people who are willing to offer up any typeof demonstration. The demonstration could range from the preparing andpresenting of a handout to showing off a piece of equipment or procedure.It does not have to be long or involved just of interest to rodmakers.I would appreciate hearing any feedback on this idea (good or bad) andI would especially enjoy hearing from people who are willing to participate.Without the groups involvement it will be very difficult to create asuccessfulgathering. from Gary Lohkamp, we are allowed to use the Troutdale facility with thestipulation that we do not charge admission. And I would certainly liketo continue that tradition. There is however the question of being fedand watered. What is the feeling of the attendees to the following: havinga catered lunch (probably about 15.00), and meeting at a restaurant foran unhosted dinner. Also, there is the cost of the fishing trip. Accessfor theday is 500.00 for the group. If we divide that up it is not bad(10-20.00 depending on attendance). would you also like a catered lunch of the gathering could be around 50 to 60.00. I would like to hear yourpreference to being catered or left to fend for yourselves. I will go withthe majority response on this one.Lastly, who do you blame for this- My name is Kevin Callaway and I canbe reached at callrods@teleport.comor (503) 590-3120 eve. If I have figured out a way to hide from you, youcan contact Chris Obuchowski at ChristopherO@epicimaging.comIf you are planning to attend, please drop one of us a note so we canstart figuring a head count. The formal registration info should go out --------------80ACDDCF980611ED7C126C6F-- from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Mon Jan 15 04:30:402001 f0FAUde17341 ([62.137.72.136] helo=default) Subject: UK Rodmakers gathering This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C07EE0.0F10B0A0 Dear Friends, gathering we are pleased to say that we have a date and a venue. We =will be meeting on the first weekend of September in the county of =Shropshire. Final details are yet to be arranged but we have a venue =that can accomodate us on a bed and breakfast basis and will offer us =both free conference facilities and fishing on the upper Severn. We should be able to give you more details in February after we have =met with our 'sponsor'. For those of you who have already been in =contact with us we have your e-mail addresses and you will hear from =Paul on an individual basis in due course. If you have any queries =please do not hesitate to contact either Paul or myself at: rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.ukorpaul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tight lines, Mark Ford ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C07EE0.0F10B0A0 Dear Friends, = attending the UK rodmakers 2001 gathering we are pleased to say that we = a venue that can accomodate us on a bed and breakfast basis and will = both free conference facilities and fishing on the upper =Severn. able = of you who have already been in contact with us we have your e-mail = have any queries please do not hesitate to contact either Paul or myself = at: rodmaker@beccles=workshop.freeserve.co.ukorpaul.blakley@ntlworld.com Ford ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C07EE0.0F10B0A0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jan 15 05:18:43 2001 f0FBIge17941 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Node Pressing - Heat Required Kurt, I heat the strip pith side down and turn it over for a second ortwo ocassionally to heat the enamel side. The pith side gets charred butthat will be planed away. The strip does not get flexible like liquorishrather flexible enough to stay where you bend it. Nodes do not have tobe arrow straight . Look at the grain in the node (after filing) that iswhat has to be straight. Any minor bends will be corrected during heattreating. Marty Hello, I'm new to rodmaking and working on my first rod using Howell's book.Finished flaming today to a caramel color and trimed off the lower twosections on the butt of the culm due to damaged enamel and wrinkles fromstraightening. Split this section into 1/4" strips to practice heating andpressing nodes and working with the material. I had filed the nodes beforeflaming. I am having problems straightening the nodes. Using a Wagner/Milwaukeeheatgun on high, and I am heating the pith side of the strip about 1" from thenozzle. I am getting charing and of the pith side after a few minutes ofheating, but the strip does not seem to be getting flexible enough to bend. Do I need less heat for a longer period, or should I just keep going until itstarts to get flexible? After one burst into flames, I thought I had betterseek some advice. Thanks - Kurt in SW Missouri ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 06:26:01 2001 f0FCQ0e18523 2001 04:25:54 PST Subject: Re: Node Pressing - Heat Required Rodmakers mail to address Kurt,You need to use lower heat, back the gun away from thestrip a little and rotate the strip back and forth andlet the heat sink in. Can take 2 to 3 minutes to getenough heat to sink in to make the node pliable. Afterabout 2 minutes try flexing the strip a little, itshould feel maleable. If not, keep gradually heatingit. This is a craft of patience as much as anythingelse. Rush, or take shortcuts and you'll find out thelimits of the material, real quick. Bill Walters --- Kurt Clement wrote:Hello, I'm new to rodmaking and working on my first rodusing Howell's book. Finished flaming today to a caramel color and trimedoff the lower twosections on the butt of the culm due to damagedenamel and wrinkles fromstraightening. Split this section into 1/4" stripsto practice heating andpressing nodes and working with the material. I hadfiled the nodes beforeflaming. I am having problems straightening the nodes. Usinga Wagner/Milwaukee heatgun on high, and I am heating the pith side of thestrip about 1" from thenozzle. I am getting charing and of the pith sideafter a few minutes ofheating, but the strip does not seem to be gettingflexible enough to bend. Do I need less heat for a longer period, or should Ijust keep going until itstarts to get flexible? After one burst intoflames, I thought I had betterseek some advice. Thanks - Kurt in SW Missouri ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from zimmer@adams.net Mon Jan 15 08:10:10 2001 f0FEAAe19428 Subject: RE: fasteners fo planing forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C07ECB.851E7300 Travis try this link...they have almost everything. = ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C07ECB.851E7300 Travis try this link...they have almost = ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C07ECB.851E7300-- from kurt.clement@usa.net Mon Jan 15 08:17:51 2001 f0FEHoe19907 mailer(34FM.0700.15A.01) on Mon Jan 15 14:14:40 GMT 2001 Subject: Was :Node Pressing - Now: Soaking and Heat Treating f0FEHpe19908 Thanks for the great information - I think the key is soaking, as mentioned inseveral of your replies. That technique was not mentioned in Howell, or inseveral of the books I have browsed through (Cattanach, Maurer ). When I flamed the culm there was very little moisture driven out at the endand that may indicate that the culm was quite dry. Some moisture would beneeded to soften the node - similar to steam bending hardwoods - I'll trytonight on some scraps. When heat treating after using soaked strips, are there any changes to thetime or temperature required? Howell's book indicates about 375 for 20 minasa starting point. (I'll be using a heat gun oven) Thanks again - Kurt Art Port wrote:Kurt,One way is to soak the node for about an hour, more if you have time.Whenthe heat gun has it dry, the node will bend pretty any way you wish it to.I use a 6 ft length of 4" schedule 40 PVC pipe with one end plugged; fillit up, pitch in the split (with filed nodes) pieces for 4 or 5 hrs, andthen heat and vise. You can heat the node, put it in a vise for 5 or 6 secsacross the cane and then flip it 90 degs to flatten the node. Let it sitlike that for a minute or two, and you'll be done.See Frank NeunemannsWaste of Time at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/ I think he has a "dissertation" on/by John Bokstrom about this. If you'veonly gotten your info from "The Books", you'll probably be afraid to trythis on my sayso alone. Check it out with the Archives too.I am assuming you're going to heat treat it AFTER you do this (and notonly flame it). With that done, you'll never know the cane was wet!Art At 10:31 PM 01/14/2001 CST, you wrote:Hello, I'm new to rodmaking and working on my first rod using Howell's book. Finished flaming today to a caramel color and trimed off the lower twosections on the butt of the culm due to damaged enamel and wrinkles fromstraightening. Split this section into 1/4" strips to practice heating andpressing nodes and working with the material. I had filed the nodes beforeflaming. I am having problems straightening the nodes. Using a Wagner/Milwaukeeheatgun on high, and I am heating the pith side of the strip about 1" from thenozzle. I am getting charing and of the pith side after a few minutes ofheating, but the strip does not seem to be getting flexible enough to bend. Do I need less heat for a longer period, or should I just keep going untilitstarts to get flexible? After one burst into flames, I thought I had betterseek some advice. Thanks - Kurt in SW Missouri ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jan 15 08:40:42 2001 f0FEefe20435 "Rodmakers mail to address" Subject: Re: Node Pressing - Heat Required Straightened 18 strips last night. Takes about 60 t0 85 minutes to do all.I soak the strips in water for 12 hours then straighten over my heat gun. Soaking makes the strips much more flexible and has no later effect on thestrips. Rough planing is also much easier when the strips are wet. I holdthe node area very close to the gun and heat the pith and sides, andoccasionally the top. When the cane is warm enough to make you want tosay"ouch" when you touch it is right. There is little charring when done thisway. You want to straighten the node area and the sweeps leading into thenode for a distance of about 1 1/2 to 2" on either side of the node. I dothe heating beside my bench vise and use the vise jaws to get leverage onthe node area. I do the flattening in the vise at the same time. A pairof sheet metal protectors over the jaws prevent them from marking thecane.From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Node Pressing - Heat RequiredDate: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:25 AM Kurt,You need to use lower heat, back the gun away from thestrip a little and rotate the strip back and forth andlet the heat sink in. Can take 2 to 3 minutes to getenough heat to sink in to make the node pliable. Afterabout 2 minutes try flexing the strip a little, itshould feel maleable. If not, keep gradually heatingit. This is a craft of patience as much as anythingelse. Rush, or take shortcuts and you'll find out thelimits of the material, real quick. Bill Walters --- Kurt Clement wrote:Hello, I'm new to rodmaking and working on my first rodusing Howell's book. Finished flaming today to a caramel color and trimedoff the lower twosections on the butt of the culm due to damagedenamel and wrinkles fromstraightening. Split this section into 1/4" stripsto practice heating andpressing nodes and working with the material. I hadfiled the nodes beforeflaming. I am having problems straightening the nodes. Usinga Wagner/Milwaukee heatgun on high, and I am heating the pith side of thestrip about 1" from thenozzle. I am getting charing and of the pith sideafter a few minutes ofheating, but the strip does not seem to be gettingflexible enough to bend. Do I need less heat for a longer period, or should Ijust keep going until itstarts to get flexible? After one burst intoflames, I thought I had betterseek some advice. Thanks - Kurt in SW Missouri ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Mon Jan 15 09:59:41 2001 f0FFxee21841 0800 Subject: Making Planing Form Question I was re-reading Tom Penrose's excellent set of directions on making one's own forms and noticed he specified using 5/16-18 threads on the bolts and set screws. One complete turn of a 5/16-18 screw will move the forms .0556 inches toward, or away from, each other. This means to adjust a station by only .001 inch, one must turn the bolt only 6.5 degrees. I also noticed in the link that Randy Zimmerman provided http://www.mcmaster.com/> that bolts,taps and dies are available in 1/4-40 threads. A 1/4-40 thread will move the forms .025 inches per turn, therefore an adjustment of .001 on the form would be a turn of 14.4 degrees. The question is: why not use a finer thread on the screws to allow Claude from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Jan 15 10:28:48 2001 f0FGSle22510 (5.5.2448.0) RODMAKERS Subject: RE: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos & a question??? The name of that grip style is a "ventilated grip". Paul young was noted The grip is produced by putting a thin spacer between the corks when gluingon the handle (BL uses plastic spacers cut from milk cartons - no glue willadhere to it) which are removed when the glue has set.The idea behind it is that you can more sensitively feel the rod bending andloading (the suckers really wiggle in your hand) while casting.Some folks love them, some hate them, it's all personal preferrence. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: Re: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos & a question??? Sorry - Think I sent this wrong the first time - Try & Try againtill I get it right O.K. Now I've Got a question, Great photos, But what is with theGrips!!!.... I have never seen anything like this before. The groves, or shouldI sayTREDS, are very interesting but I have never seen them on a gripbefore. Isthis just some kind of signiture/selling feature, or do theseactually servea real purpose/function. Would this feature feel uncomfortable aftera daysuse for those of you who use on have used one? Does it give a realgripadvantage over just a standard smooth grip? Secondly, how is this done. I have Ideas but I'll let you moreknowledgable addicts (sure I'll be one soon) expound on the subjectas I amsure there are other with the same question. Thanks Rob W. -----Original Message-----From: Darrell Lee > Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 3:03 PMSubject: P.H. Young Bamboo Rod Photos Gang, I forgot I took a bunch of photos of a collector who was showcasinghisoutstanding collection of PHY rods including the Para 15, 16, TexasGeneral,Martha Marie and some others. He gave me permission to post themontheweb,but I did not write down his name. Maybe Bob B. or one of theothers on thelist that attended the NFLCC show in Vegas in April can identifythe ownerof the collection so I can give him his well deserved credit forhis finecollection. Anyway, I came across them on a floppy that was lying around... Ineeded ablank floppy for something and when I saw these, I was jazzed atseeingthemagain... http://www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm Here they are, hope you enjoy them! Darrellwww.vfish.net from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 10:46:45 2001 f0FGkie23154 2001 08:46:46 PST Subject: Ammonia Toning Hi, I'm working with Resourcinol splices and want tomake the cane dark enough to make them lessnoticeable. Flaming is out (for reasons I can't gointo here). I've worked out an idea where I'mbrowntoning using heat and then using Ammonia to getthings even darker. I've gotten advise in the past touse old tea bags to get tannin on the bamboo beforefuming and I've gotten advice to soak acorns and usethe resulting liquid to wipe down. What I've learnedis that these are two different type of tannin. Tea istannic acid, while the acorn derived soak is Tannin.Does anyone know what the best material would be toget the wipedown that would react with ammonia todarken the cane. Do I need to soak Oak bark or acornsor is there some other option? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Bill@virtualmachinist.com Mon Jan 15 10:51:39 2001 f0FGpce23530 Subject: Fw: Fastners for Planing Forms Are these the steel forms? If So try Reid Tool Supply www.reidtool.comthat's where I bought the hardware for the one I am building.BillPlease Visit Our Website @ http://www.virtualmachinist.com andhttp://www.machinistsoftware.com and http://www.copco.net----- Original Message -----From: "Travis" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 4:10 AMSubject: Fastners for Planing Forms Hi all, I'm new to the list, been wanting to build a rod for a long time, tookme6months to get a copy of Mr. Cattanach's book. Lately I have been trying to get tools and materials to build my firstrod.I decided to try and build my own planing forms in accordance withMr. Cattanachs description in his book. But, I am having troublelocatingfastners for the planing forms. Any, help such as a place online wouldbegreatly appreciated. Thank YouTravis from GriffinJohn@email.msn.com Mon Jan 15 11:48:22 2001 f0FHmLe24847 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:48:10 -0800 Subject: Old rods; old lines... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C07EF2.1E3EEE40 I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to cane rods and looking for your advice: - Granger Favorite 9'0" 5.0 oz; HDH line, 3/2: Is this rod a =pleasant fishing trout rod, or a real club (like the Best O Luck/South =Bend 9'0" 3/2 I just finished restoring for practice and fun)? - KC Crocker (Rangely, ME rodmaker) 7'0" 2/2, marked "332": Is this =a recognized high quality rod builder? - Old line to new line cross reference: eg, what's an HDH? an HCH? =Can't find a cross reference in the books I have (Sinclair, Kirkfield). =Assume the H's are double taper, but the line weight? - Cane Blanks: I'd like to build a 7'0" 3 - 4 wt rod from a modern, =good quality blank. Are the "Masters" blanks good quality? Should I buy =with ferrules installed? (I'm real handy, but don't have a lathe). What =is a good taper to specify? I like a rod that I can feel loading on the =short cast, but ain't dog slow. The only modern cane I've fished with is =a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt (Battenkill?), which I liked. - Leonard Tournament Stripper: Anyone have an original Leonard =(agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 Leonard? I'm preparing to =restore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now looks like red =glass, not agate. Many thanks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C07EF2.1E3EEE40 I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to cane= looking for your advice: fun)? builder? reference: = an HDH? an HCH? Can't find a cross reference in the books I have = Kirkfield). Assume the H's are double taper, but the line =weight? 3 = rod from a modern, good quality blank. Are the "Masters" blanks good = Should I buy with ferrules installed? (I'm real handy, but don't have a = What is a good taper to specify? I like a rod that I can feel loading on = short cast, but ain't dog slow. The only modern cane I've fished with is = friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt (Battenkill?), which I liked. Anyone = original Leonard (agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 Leonard? = preparing to restore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now looks = glass, not agate. Many thanks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video=/ ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C07EF2.1E3EEE40-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 15 11:59:39 2001 f0FHxce25308 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:59:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Making Planing Form Question Claude,The pull screws are only one-half of the adjustment. The set screwswhich push are the other half. The two working in opposition make for anadjustment that's plenty fine.I actually used 1/4-20, and they work just fine. They're much morecommonly available and probably less expensive.Does this approach an answer? Harry Claude Freaner wrote: The question is: why not use a finer thread on the screws to allow from sf_saez@email.msn.com Mon Jan 15 12:04:40 2001 f0FI4ee25610 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:04:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Ammonia Toning Acorns in the wild are probably hard to come by this time of year. Gettingit from bark is some work. You'd may be better off checking for grape tanninat a local homebrew shop or search the web. I've never used it but a friendwho makes his own wine orders his by mail. It may be somewhat red/purple incolor. Don't know what color the ammonia will turn it but it should matchthe Resourcinol well! You may want to check with a local taxidermist too. ----- Original Message -----Subject: Ammonia Toning ... is there some other option? from goodaple@tcac.net Mon Jan 15 12:16:12 2001 f0FIGBe26057 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: Re: Ammonia Toning Organization: I believe that you can get tannic acid at a leather working hobby shop typeof place as well. Randall Gregory. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ammonia Toning Acorns in the wild are probably hard to come by this time of year. Gettingit from bark is some work. You'd may be better off checking for grapetanninat a local homebrew shop or search the web. I've never used it but afriendwho makes his own wine orders his by mail. It may be somewhat red/purpleincolor. Don't know what color the ammonia will turn it but it should matchthe Resourcinol well! You may want to check with a local taxidermist too. ----- Original Message -----Subject: Ammonia Toning ... is there some other option? from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Jan 15 12:30:47 2001 f0FIUke26647 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Old rods; old lines... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C07EDC.D2540340 Try www.vfish.net/silklinechart.htm This page ought to give you the info on the AFTMA lines. The Granger Fav is a good rod... You could have bought about 20 Best O' LuckSB's for the cost of the Favorite at the time... I do have a Leonard stripping guide off a 9.5' rod... weird huh? Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:53 AM Subject: Old rods; old lines... I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to cane rods and looking for your advice: - Granger Favorite 9'0" 5.0 oz; HDH line, 3/2: Is this rod a pleasantfishing trout rod, or a real club (like the Best O Luck/South Bend 9'0" 3/2I just finished restoring for practice and fun)? - KC Crocker (Rangely, ME rodmaker) 7'0" 2/2, marked "332": Is this arecognized high quality rod builder? - Old line to new line cross reference: eg, what's an HDH? an HCH?Can't find a cross reference in the books I have (Sinclair, Kirkfield).Assume the H's are double taper, but the line weight? - Cane Blanks: I'd like to build a 7'0" 3 - 4 wt rod from a modern,good quality blank. Are the "Masters" blanks good quality? Should I buy withferrules installed? (I'm real handy, but don't have a lathe). What is a goodtaper to specify? I like a rod that I can feel loading on the short cast,but ain't dog slow. The only modern cane I've fished with is a friend's 60'sOrvis 7' 4 wt (Battenkill?), which I liked. - Leonard Tournament Stripper: Anyone have an original Leonard(agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 Leonard? I'm preparing torestore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now looks like red glass,not agate. Many thanks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C07EDC.D2540340 Try www.vfish.net/silklinecha= page ought to give you the info on the AFTMA lines. Granger Fav is a good rod... You could have bought about 20 Best O' Luck = have a Leonard stripping guide off a 9.5' rod... weird =huh? Darrellwww.vfish.net GriffinJohnSent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:53 = Rodmakers ListSubject: Old rods; old =lines...I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to = looking for your advice: fun)? builder? reference: = what's an HDH? an HCH? Can't find a cross reference in the books I = weight? = rod from a modern, good quality blank. Are the "Masters" blanks good = Should I buy with ferrules installed? (I'm real handy, but don't have = lathe). What is a good taper to specify? I like a rod that I can feel = on the short cast, but ain't dog slow. The only modern cane I've = is a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt (Battenkill?), which I =liked. Anyone = original Leonard (agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 = preparing to restore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now = red glass, not agate. Many thanks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video=/ ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C07EDC.D2540340-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Mon Jan 15 12:33:43 2001 f0FIXhe26848 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:33:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Ammonia Toning Is there a reason not to use wood stains for coloring bamboo? Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 13:52:38 2001 f0FJqbe28733 2001 11:52:38 PST Subject: Re: Ammonia Toning why not use a wipe-on stain? timothy --- Bill Walters wrote:Hi, I'm working with Resourcinol splices and want tomake the cane dark enough to make them lessnoticeable. Flaming is out (for reasons I can't gointo here). I've worked out an idea where I'mbrowntoning using heat and then using Ammonia to getthings even darker. I've gotten advise in the pasttouse old tea bags to get tannin on the bamboo beforefuming and I've gotten advice to soak acorns and usethe resulting liquid to wipe down. What I've learnedis that these are two different type of tannin. Teaistannic acid, while the acorn derived soak is Tannin.Does anyone know what the best material would be toget the wipedown that would react with ammonia todarken the cane. Do I need to soak Oak bark oracornsor is there some other option? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 15 15:05:29 2001 f0FL5Se00236 Subject: New website Folks,I'm not trying to spam anyone here, but I have a firstdraft of a new website up and running. If any of you have afew minutes to kill and would like to make some off-linecomments, I would appreciate it.The url is: http://www.canerods.com/ Thanks,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from raymondrdubois@home.com Mon Jan 15 15:52:02 2001 f0FLq2e01264 ;Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:51:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Old rods; old lines... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C07F13.950039A0 John, If you are looking for a GOOD cane blank the is no better then Ron =Kusse (VP of Leonard for 25 years). You can get them in the string or =with the string off and the ferrules installed (he makes his own for =each blank).His web page is at:http://www.ronkusse.com/ He even makes Quads!Good luck, Ray Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:53 PMSubject: Old rods; old lines... I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to cane rods and looking for your =advice: - Granger Favorite 9'0" 5.0 oz; HDH line, 3/2: Is this rod a =pleasant fishing trout rod, or a real club (like the Best O Luck/South =Bend 9'0" 3/2 I just finished restoring for practice and fun)? - KC Crocker (Rangely, ME rodmaker) 7'0" 2/2, marked "332": Is =this a recognized high quality rod builder? - Old line to new line cross reference: eg, what's an HDH? an HCH? =Can't find a cross reference in the books I have (Sinclair, Kirkfield). =Assume the H's are double taper, but the line weight? - Cane Blanks: I'd like to build a 7'0" 3 - 4 wt rod from a =modern, good quality blank. Are the "Masters" blanks good quality? =Should I buy with ferrules installed? (I'm real handy, but don't have a =lathe). What is a good taper to specify? I like a rod that I can feel =loading on the short cast, but ain't dog slow. The only modern cane I've =fished with is a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt (Battenkill?), which I =liked. - Leonard Tournament Stripper: Anyone have an original Leonard =(agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 Leonard? I'm preparing to =restore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now looks like red =glass, not agate. Many thanks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C07F13.950039A0 John, If you are looking for a GOOD = is no better then Ron Kusse (VP of Leonard for 25 years). You can get = the string or with the string off and the ferrules installed (he makes = http://www.ronkusse.com/You can check with him about a Leonard= too. He even makes Quads!Good luck, Ray ----- Original Message ----- GriffinJohn Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001= PMSubject: Old rods; old =lines... I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to = looking for your advice: fun)? builder? reference: = what's an HDH? an HCH? Can't find a cross reference in the books I = weight? = rod from a modern, good quality blank. Are the "Masters" blanks good = Should I buy with ferrules installed? (I'm real handy, but don't have = lathe). What is a good taper to specify? I like a rod that I can feel = on the short cast, but ain't dog slow. The only modern cane I've = is a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt (Battenkill?), which I =liked. Anyone = original Leonard (agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 = preparing to restore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now = red glass, not agate. Many thanks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video=/ ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C07F13.950039A0-- from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jan 15 16:14:28 2001 f0FMERe01965 Subject: Re: www.vfish.net PHY Photo Gallery Upgraded for Netscape users...Pleasetest I'd settle for just the taper to the Para 16.M-D ----- Original Message ----- Darrell;They come up just fine now. Only one problem, I want em all!! I'll robthe bank if you can talk him into selling them.lolJOhn Darrell Lee wrote: Gang, I've moved and changed the photo links so I think everyone should beable toview them now... In particular the Netscape browsers should now work.Pleaselet me know as I don't have Netscape and cannot tell if it works. Tryitagain... www.vfish.net/Thumbs1.htm BTW, we have a winner of a book on bamboo rods by Dal Hubbard forbeingthe500th subscriber to my newsletter. I don't know if he is a lister ornot...The 1,000th subscriber will win a vintage bamboo fly rod. Darrellwww.vfish.net from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jan 15 16:14:31 2001 f0FMETe01972 Subject: Re: Para 16 Okay, no more kidding around! I want that damned taper, and I want it NOW! QuÄ es el problema? I can't believe no one has this taper. I've sente-mails all over the place with no success. Some people will be looking forthe taper, but to date no one has come forth with it. We have everythingelse PHY did but not the 16. Where is the 16? M-D ----- Original Message ----- ... and we all know what happens to someone who taunts Jojo. Tisk tisk. DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Jan 15 16:17:27 2001 f0FMHQe02311 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Ammonia Coloring Guys/Gals, Has anyone got a good reason to use ammonia for coloring other thantradition? I've used leather dyes, wood tints and waterproof marking pens.They all worked fine. I like the waterproof the pens the best as the colorcan be blended by the use of a little alcohol.Never even considered ammonia as it is dangerous and the house will stink.I build mostly in the winter. Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan 15 16:24:46 2001 f0FMOje02718 Subject: Sanding block rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,I don't have a picture of this sanding block I have just made one for the person who asked me about it awhile back. I have had a few guys ask meabout my making one for them so if anyone is interested let me know. I will probably get flamed for this but oh well here goes. I am asking only to be reimbursed for my time, what little material is involved and shipping. I am not trying to make anything off these they just work really nice because of their size and they are really easy to control for sanding a blank. Anyone who wants one let me know. OH YEH flame away.Bret from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 15 16:31:43 2001 f0FMVge03072 Subject: Re: Para 16 MD,There's really no such thing as a Para-16. It's all a figment of yourimagination intended to drive you crazy. Is it working? Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Okay, no more kidding around! I want that damned taper, and I want it NOW! QuÄ es el problema? I can't believe no one has this taper. I've sente-mails all over the place with no success. Some people will be looking forthe taper, but to date no one has come forth with it. We have everythingelse PHY did but not the 16. Where is the 16? M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Richard R. Dutcher" ... and we all know what happens to someone who taunts Jojo. Tisk tisk. DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 15 16:35:47 2001 f0FMZle03302 Subject: Re: Old rods; old lines... --------------32C01E426665D6E91521D43E John I second what Ray said. Kusse makes a fantastic 7' #4 quad that healso sells in blank form. The rod is strong but not stiff and you willhave to look extra hard to find better workmanship.....like maybe backto 1950. Rich Colo Ray Du Bois wrote: John, If you are looking for a GOOD cane blank the is no better thenRon Kusse (VP of Leonard for 25 years). You can get them in the stringor with the string off and the ferrules installed (he makes his own check with him about a Leonard stripper too.He even makes Quads!Goodluck, Ray ----- Original Message -----From: GriffinJohn Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:53 PMSubject: Old rods; old lines...I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to cane rods and looking foryour advice: - Granger Favorite 9'0" 5.0 oz; HDH line,3/2: Is this rod a pleasant fishing trout rod, or a realclub (like the Best O Luck/South Bend 9'0" 3/2 I justfinished restoring for practice and fun)? - KC Crocker(Rangely, ME rodmaker) 7'0" 2/2, marked "332": Is this arecognized high quality rod builder? - Old line to newline cross reference: eg, what's an HDH? an HCH? Can't finda cross reference in the books I have (Sinclair, Kirkfield).Assume the H's are double taper, but the line weight? -Cane Blanks: I'd like to build a 7'0" 3 - 4 wt rod from amodern, good quality blank. Are the "Masters" blanks goodquality? Should I buy with ferrules installed? (I'm realhandy, but don't have a lathe). What is a good taper tospecify? I like a rod that I can feel loading on the shortcast, but ain't dog slow. The only modern cane I've fishedwith is a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt (Battenkill?), which Iliked. - Leonard Tournament Stripper: Anyone have anoriginal Leonard (agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6"3/2 Leonard? I'm preparing to restore the rod, but thestripper now on the rod now looks like red glass, notagate. Manythanks, John----------- ------------------------------------------ Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ --------------32C01E426665D6E91521D43E you will have to look extra hard to find better workmanship.....like maybe Ray Du Bois wrote: John,If you are looking for a GOOD cane blank the is no better then Ron Kusse(VP of Leonard for 25 years). You can get them in the string or with thestring off and the ferrules installed (he makes his own for each blank).Hisweb page is at:http://www.ronkusse.com/Youcan check with him about a Leonard stripper too.Heeven makes Quads!Goodluck,Ray ----- Original Message ----- From:GriffinJohn List Sent: Monday, January 15, 200112:53PM Subject: Old rods; old lines... - GrangerFavorite9'0" 5.0 oz; HDH line, 3/2:Is this rod a pleasant fishing trout rod, or a real club (like the BestO Luck/South Bend 9'0" 3/2 I just finished restoring for practice and - KC Crocker(Rangely,ME rodmaker) 7'0" 2/2, marked "332": - Old line to newline cross reference:eg, what's an HDH? an HCH? Can't find a cross reference in the books Ihave (Sinclair, Kirkfield). Assume the H's are double taper, but the line - CaneBlanks:I'd like to build a 7'0" 3 - 4 wt rod from a modern, good quality blank.Are the "Masters" blanks good quality? Should I buy with ferrules installed?(I'm real handy, but don't have a lathe). What is a good taper to specify?I like a rod that I can feel loading on the short cast, but ain't dog slow.The only modern cane I've fished with is a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt - LeonardTournamentStripper: Anyonehavean original Leonard (agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 Leonard?I'm preparing to restore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now looks ------------------------------Click here for FreeVideo!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ --------------32C01E426665D6E91521D43E-- from lkyuill@supernet.com Mon Jan 15 16:39:10 2001 f0FMd9e03565 ) Subject: delamination of strips This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C07F1A.7294B740 While attempting to find the spine on strips glued recently, a snap was =heard and I noticed that one strip had become loose. On further =investigation, I found that all of the strips could be pulled =apart rather easily. The glue used was a fresh tube of Bordens L-100. =The strips were hand bound and allowed to sit in approx. 90 degree room = may have been bound too tight thereby squeezing out the glue. If this =is the case what is the fix (other than buying a binder)? Should the =strips be sanded to remove what little glue residue is on the strips = ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C07F1A.7294B740 While attempting to find the= strips glued recently, a snap was heard and I noticed that one strip had = hand bound and allowed to sit in approx. 90 degree room for 7 = ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C07F1A.7294B740-- from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 15 16:43:03 2001 f0FMh2e03840 Subject: Re: Para 16 Harry...liked your site very much. We share much in our philosophy offlyfishing. I have never heard it said better than in a book that is certainlymy favorite and also was the favorite of Arnold Gingrich. "Thy Rod and ThyCreel" by Odell Shepard. By the way..he was the Minister at Yale. If youhaven't ever seen it you are in for a treat and it's worth trying to hunt down.M-D....no para16 but how about a Payne model 96...don't think anyone hasthat oneyet. Rich Harry Boyd wrote: MD,There's really no such thing as a Para-16. It's all a figment of yourimagination intended to drive you crazy. Is it working? Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Okay, no more kidding around! I want that damned taper, and I want itNOW! QuÄ es el problema? I can't believe no one has this taper. I've sente-mails all over the place with no success. Some people will be looking forthe taper, but to date no one has come forth with it. We have everythingelse PHY did but not the 16. Where is the 16? M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Richard R. Dutcher" ... and we all know what happens to someone who taunts Jojo. Tisk tisk. DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jan 15 16:44:18 2001 f0FMiHe04010 Subject: Re: Para 16 Perhaps not. I wonder, how appealing does taking it to your gravesound? }:^0>M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Para 16 I have that taper and I am never going to give it up you can't make me doit.Bret from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 15 16:51:27 2001 f0FMpQe04475 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:51:18 -0800 Rodmakers List Subject: Re: Old rods; old lines... C'mon Rich. I doubt you'll find better workmanship thanRon's. Not even in 1950.!:-)Harry Boyd Richard Colo wrote: John I second what Ray said. Kusse makes a fantastic 7'#4 quad that he also sells in blank form. The rod isstrong but not stiff and you will have to look extra hardto find better workmanship.....like maybe back to 1950. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 15 17:04:36 2001 f0FN4Ze04893 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:04:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Sanding block Heck Bret,No more complicated than it is, I'll make 'em one for free! Just forshipping! Consider this a good-natured flame,And I'm only kidding.Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,I don't have a picture of this sanding block I have just made one for theperson who asked me about it awhile back. I have had a few guys ask meaboutmy making one for them so if anyone is interested let me know. I willprobably get flamed for this but oh well here goes. I am asking only to bereimbursed for my time, what little material is involved and shipping. I amnot trying to make anything off these they just work really nice because oftheir size and they are really easy to control for sanding a blank. Anyonewho wants one let me know. OH YEH flame away.Bret --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 15 17:06:47 2001 f0FN6ke05056 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:06:45 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: delamination of strips --------------F3DC28139663873D24A20F03 Linda??I doubt you bound the strips so tightly that it became aproblem. Could you have a bad batch of glue? I'm not toofamiliar with Borden L-100, but isn't it a urea formaldehydeglue? If so, perhaps your glue is old and has lost itszippp.. Harry Linda Yuill wrote: While attempting to find the spine on strips gluedrecently, a snap was heard and I noticed that one striphad become loose. On further investigation, I found thatall of the strips could be pulled apart rathereasily. The glue used was a fresh tube of Bordens L-100.The strips were hand bound and allowed to sit in approx.90 degree room for 7 days. Any thoughts on the cause? Ibelieve that the strips may have been bound too tightthereby squeezing out the glue. If this is the case whatis the fix (other than buying a binder)? Should thestrips be sanded to remove what little glue residue is onthe strips before reglueing? --------------F3DC28139663873D24A20F03 Linda?? If so, perhaps your glue is old and has lost its zippp.. Linda Yuill wrote:Whileattemptingto find the spine on strips glued recently, a snap was heard and I noticed that all of the strips could be The strips were hand bound and allowed to sit in approx. 90 degree room the strips may have been bound too tight thereby squeezing out the Should the strips be sanded to remove what little glue residue is on thestrips before reglueing? --------------F3DC28139663873D24A20F03-- from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 15 17:21:35 2001 f0FNLYe05703 Rodmakers List Subject: Re: Old rods; old lines... --------------061355F0ECF804DE4BFF457F Gee I just read my post and that didn't come out like I meant it to. Itruly feel the best bamboo rods are being made today and in no way did Imean otherwise. insert foot in finger....Rich Richard Colo wrote: John I second what Ray said. Kusse makes a fantastic 7' #4 quad thathe also sells in blank form. The rod is strong but not stiff and youwill have to look extra hard to find better workmanship.....like maybeback to 1950. Rich Colo Ray Du Bois wrote: John, If you are looking for a GOOD cane blank the is no better thenRon Kusse (VP of Leonard for 25 years). You can get them in thestring or with the string off and the ferrules installed (he makeshis own for each blank).His web page isat:http://www.ronkusse.com/You can check with him about a Leonardstripper too.He even makes Quads!Good luck, Ray ----- Original Message -----From:GriffinJohn Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:53 PMSubject: Old rods; old lines...I'm a veteran flyfisherman new to cane rods and looking line, 3/2: Is this rod a pleasant fishing trout rod, or areal club (like the Best O Luck/South Bend 9'0" 3/2 I justfinished restoring for practice and fun)? - KC Crocker(Rangely, ME rodmaker) 7'0" 2/2, marked "332": Is this arecognized high quality rod builder? - Old line to newline cross reference: eg, what's an HDH? an HCH? Can'tfind a cross reference in the books I have (Sinclair,Kirkfield). Assume the H's are double taper, but the lineweight? - Cane Blanks: I'd like to build a 7'0" 3 - 4wt rod from a modern, good quality blank. Are the"Masters" blanks good quality? Should I buy with ferrulesinstalled? (I'm real handy, but don't have a lathe). Whatis a good taper to specify? I like a rod that I can feelloading on the short cast, but ain't dog slow. The onlymodern cane I've fished with is a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4wt (Battenkill?), which I liked. - Leonard TournamentStripper: Anyone have an original Leonard (agate?)stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 Leonard? I'mpreparing to restore the rod, but the stripper now on therod now looks like red glass, not agate. Many thanks,John- ----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ --------------061355F0ECF804DE4BFF457F I truly feel the best bamboo rods are being made today and in no way did Richard Colo wrote: strong but not stiff and you will have to look extra hard to find better ColoRay Du Bois wrote: John,If you are looking for a GOOD cane blank the is no better then Ron Kusse(VP of Leonard for 25 years). You can get them in the string or with thestring off and the ferrules installed (he makes his own for each blank).Hisweb page is at:http://www.ronkusse.com/Youcan check with him about a Leonard stripper too.He even makes Quads!Goodluck, Ray ----- Original Message ----- From:GriffinJohn List Sent: Monday, January 15, 200112:53PM Subject: Old rods; old lines... - GrangerFavorite9'0" 5.0 oz; HDH line, 3/2:Is this rod a pleasant fishing trout rod, or a real club (like the BestO Luck/South Bend 9'0" 3/2 I just finished restoring for practice and - KC Crocker(Rangely,ME rodmaker) 7'0" 2/2, marked "332": - Old line to newline cross reference:eg, what's an HDH? an HCH? Can't find a cross reference in the books Ihave (Sinclair, Kirkfield). Assume the H's are double taper, but the line - CaneBlanks:I'd like to build a 7'0" 3 - 4 wt rod from a modern, good quality blank.Are the "Masters" blanks good quality? Should I buy with ferrules installed?(I'm real handy, but don't have a lathe). What is a good taper to specify?I like a rod that I can feel loading on the short cast, but ain't dog slow.The only modern cane I've fished with is a friend's 60's Orvis 7' 4 wt - LeonardTournamentStripper: Anyonehavean original Leonard (agate?) stripping guide for a 1930's 9'6" 3/2 Leonard?I'm preparing to restore the rod, but the stripper now on the rod now lookslike red glass, not agate. Manythanks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for FreeVideo!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ --------------061355F0ECF804DE4BFF457F-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jan 15 18:26:12 2001 f0G0QBe07116 Subject: Re: Making Planing Form Question In a message dated 1/15/1 4:00:24 PM, cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov writes: Claude - I would advise against it. There are times when a lot of pressure is put on the threads, like when a butt swell is adjusted into the forms. You might strip a fine thread in the process. Very fine adjustments can easily be made with the heavier and stronger threads. from sats@gte.net Mon Jan 15 18:38:37 2001 f0G0cae07601 Subject: Ferrule calliper I just got a box for Lee Valley. Those Canadians know how do so some thingsright! It's a little 4in dial calliper marked in .010 AND 1/64ths just the thing formeasuring inside and outside ferrules. The great thing is it's cost. Lessthen$10 us (plus shipping.) I've been looking at 6in versions of the same thing incatalogs and fliers but they're all over twice the price and a lot of them don'thave 1/64ths readings....----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/vzn05zew from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jan 15 18:44:56 2001 f0G0ite07833 Subject: Lint-Free Wipers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C07F22.D25E87C0 List: Some months back, someone posted wanting to know of a source for =lint- free towels, or wipes. I couldn't find the original posting in the =Archives, but I have found the following: KIMWIPES EX-LDelicate Task Wipers 280 ct. per carton 1 plySize: Inches: 4.5 x 8.4 Centimeters: 11.4 x 21.5 Manufactured by: Kimberly-Clark Corp.Roswell, GA 30076-2199 Order No.: US Only: 34155 Everybody else: 34120 These are used in the splicing process of fiber optic cable. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C07F22.D25E87C0 List: Some months back,someone = wanting to know of a source for lint-free towels, or wipes. I couldn't = following: KIMWIPES =EX-L Wipers 280 ct. per plySize: Centimeters: 11.4 x 21.5 Manufactured Corp. 34120 These are process of fiber optic cable. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C07F22.D25E87C0-- from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 15 19:23:33 2001 f0G1NWe08873 Subject: Re: Lint-Free Wipers --------------5A56EE737D85E90622F2F177 List, We use them in our office to clean all our optical lenses andequipment....Rich Colo Jojo DeLancier wrote: List: Some months back, someone posted wanting to know of a source forlint-free towels, or wipes. I couldn't find the original posting inthe Archives, but I have found the following: KIMWIPES EX-LDelicateTask Wipers 280 ct. per carton 1 plySize: Inches: 4.5 x8.4 Centimeters: 11.4 x 21.5 Manufactured by: Kimberly-ClarkCorp. Roswell, GA30076-2199 Order No.: US Only: 34155 Everybodyelse: 34120 These are used in the splicing process of fiber opticcable. M-D --------------5A56EE737D85E90622F2F177 List,We use them in our office to clean all our optical lenses andequipment....RichColoJojo DeLancier wrote: months back, someone posted wanting to know of a source for lint- freetowels,or wipes. I couldn't find the original posting in the Archives, but I have EX-LDelicate Centimeters: are used in the splicing process of fiber optic --------------5A56EE737D85E90622F2F177-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Jan 15 19:35:36 2001 f0G1ZZe09222 Subject: "A" silk thread. Can anyone give me a source for "A silk. I'm only looking for one color, alight beige. If they have a web site, that would be even better !Thanks,GMA from goodaple@tcac.net Mon Jan 15 19:58:51 2001 f0G1wpe09730 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: Best of the Planing form Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C07F2E.1B47FE20 Does anyone know of a source where I can get a copy of this book. I keep =reading references to it but just never picked up a copy. I checked =Amazon but they list it as out of print. Thanks, Randall G. (OFFLIST = ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C07F2E.1B47FE20 Does anyone know of a source where I = of this book. I keep reading references to it but just never picked up a = checked Amazon but they list it as out of print. Thanks, Randall = (OFFLIST will be fine) ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C07F2E.1B47FE20-- from piscator@macatawa.org Mon Jan 15 20:12:49 2001 f0G2Cme10543 Subject: Re: "A" silk thread. Classic Chronicles (Dick Spurr) has it in GIANT spools for 40 or 50 bucks.Look under miscellaneous or etcetera or something like that. Or maybe itwas under rod projects. No financial yadda, yadda, yadda, yackity-schmack. Brian from piscator@macatawa.org Mon Jan 15 20:13:16 2001 f0G2DFe10625 "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Best of the Planing form This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C07F38.75CC6700 Try the source, Ron? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C07F38.75CC6700 Try the source, =Ron? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C07F38.75CC6700-- from fquinchat@locl.net Mon Jan 15 20:30:54 2001 f0G2Ure11206 Subject: Re: New website Harry, Good looking photos in your web site. The tiger stripe maple reel seat isespecially striking. How did you get the deep orange and black coloration?I've never been able to get tiger stripe to take much stain. Dennis-----Original Message----- Subject: New website Folks,I'm not trying to spam anyone here, but I have a firstdraft of a new website up and running. If any of you have afew minutes to kill and would like to make some off-linecomments, I would appreciate it.The url is: http://www.canerods.com/ Thanks,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 15 20:51:06 2001 f0G2p5e11727 Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:50:56 -0500 "jojo@ipa.net" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Lint-Free Wipers --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963424=_=_=_ I believe I made the original post - Woodworkers Supply has the Scot lint free wipes - much larger in size and if I remember correctly theyarerelatively inexpensive. they are very good for use in finishing - they hold upverywell even when used with mineral spirts or varnish on them. Chris --Original Message Text--- List: Some months back, someone posted wanting to know of a source for lint- free towels, or wipes. I couldn't find the original posting in the Archives, but I have found the following: KIMWIPES EX-LDelicate Task Wipers 280 ct. per carton 1 plySize: Inches: 4.5 x 8.4 Centimeters: 11.4 x 21.5 Manufactured by: Kimberly-Clark Corp.Roswell, GA 30076-2199 Order No.: US Only: 34155 Everybody else: 34120 These are used in the splicing process of fiber optic cable. M-D --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963424=_=_=_ I believe I made the original post - Woodworkers Supply has the Scot lint free wipes - much larger in size and if I remember correctly theyarerelatively inexpensive. they are very good for use in finishing - they hold upverywell even when used with mineral spirts or varnish on them. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Jojo DeLancierDate: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:41:48 -0600 List: Somemonths back, someone posted wanting to know of a source for lint- freetowels, or wipes. I couldn't find the original posting in the Archives, but I havefound the following: KIMWIPESEX-LDelicateTask Wipers 280 ct. percarton 1 plySize: Inches: 4.5 x 8.4 Centimeters: 11.4 x 21.5 Manufactured by: Kimberly-Clark Corp. Roswell, GA 30076-2199 Order No.: US Only: 34155 Everybody else: 34120 These areused in the splicing process of fiber optic cable. M-D --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963424=_=_=_-- from goodaple@tcac.net Mon Jan 15 21:04:10 2001 f0G349e12228 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: RE: Best of Planing form Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C07F37.3A4C9480 Thanks for the info. I'll try both sources until I track down a copy. =Thanks again, Randall R. Gregory. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C07F37.3A4C9480 Thanks for the info. I'll try both = track down a copy. Thanks again, Randall R. Gregory. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C07F37.3A4C9480-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jan 15 21:10:06 2001 f0G3A4e12482 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:09:56 +0800 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:09:54 +0800 Subject: Re: delamination of strips This sounds strange. I'm assuming the L-100 is a UF glue and you mixed thehardener with resin?Other than that contamination of the splines is about all I can think of. Thetemp sounds right and 7 days is quite enough. Hand binding wouldn't havebeenthe problem as plenty of people hand bind.Suggest checking the glue by getting a couple of pieces of pine about 6" longand 1" wide and glue about 1-2" of each end together, leave a few days thenbreak them apart. You should find the wood fail and not the glue line. Iftheglue fails I'd deep 6 the glue. Tony At 05:41 PM 1/15/01 -0500, Linda Yuill wrote: While attempting to find the spine on strips glued recently, a snap washeardand I noticed that one strip had become loose. On further investigation, Ifound that all of the strips could be pulled apart rather easily.The glue used was a fresh tube of Bordens L-100. The strips were handboundand allowed to sit in approx. 90 degree room for 7 days. Any thoughts onthecause? I believe that the strips may have been bound too tight therebysqueezing out the glue. If this is the case what is the fix (other thanbuying a binder)? Should the strips be sanded to remove what little glueresidue is on the strips before reglueing? Thanks in advance. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jan 15 21:36:52 2001 f0G3ape13329 Subject: Re: Para 16 Why not graph out the para 15 and 17 starting at the tip. As I recall thePHY tapers look very similar in shape when graphed. The para 16 would thenbe the mid point between each graph line, or at least "close enough" ----------From: Jojo DeLancier Cc: and Collecting Subject: Re: Para 16Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:10 PM Okay, no more kidding around! I want that damned taper, and I want itNOW! QuÄ es el problema? I can't believe no one has this taper. I've sente-mails all over the place with no success. Some people will be lookingforthe taper, but to date no one has come forth with it. We have everythingelse PHY did but not the 16. Where is the 16? M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Richard R. Dutcher" ... and we all know what happens to someone who taunts Jojo. Tisk tisk. DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jan 15 21:39:24 2001 f0G3dNe13490 Subject: sibling rivalry Been doing some work using Linux which I've heard called a virus with auser interface but I don't agree -)Until a week back I was using two machines, one with windoze and one withLinux but it's a hassle using two machines so aha thought I, I'll just trya non destructive partition and get both operating systems on the one HDD.Looked ok until it wasn't any more. I knew the jig was up when I saw amessage referring to a scrambled FAT. Oh well, that's what backups are for.Anyhow, just got back on-line and had a few messages from several listersso I thought I'd mention my not answering all in one go.Anybody considering doing what I did I'd suggest you sit and think a secondor two first. The urge will prob pass given enough time. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html You can always spot a pioneer, they're the ones with arrows in their backs /*************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jan 15 21:48:56 2001 f0G3mue13905 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: delamination of strips Is Bordens L-100 equivelent to URAC? I am sure it was not because thestrips were bound to tight. It is either glue failure or that the stripswere to dry. I would mist the strips with water let the water evaporateand reglue. you don't want the strips wet just some moisture content inthe cane. Marty While attempting to find the spine on strips glued recently, a snapwas heard and I noticed that one strip had become loose. On furtherinvestigation, I found that all of the strips could be pulledapart rather easily. The glue used was a fresh tube of BordensL-100. The strips were hand bound and allowed to sit in approx. 90degree room for 7 days. Any thoughts on the cause? I believe thatthe strips may have been bound too tight thereby squeezing out theglue. If this is the case what is the fix (other than buying abinder)? Should the strips be sanded to remove what little glueresidue is on the strips before reglueing? Thanks in advance. from steve@hamiltonrods.com Mon Jan 15 21:53:43 2001 f0G3rge14115 Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: "A" silk thread. www.uticathread.com --Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: "A" silk thread. Can anyone give me a source for "A silk. I'm only looking for one color, alight beige. If they have a web site, that would be even better !Thanks,GMA from goodaple@tcac.net Mon Jan 15 22:04:52 2001 f0G44pe14546 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: RE: Best of Planing Form Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C07F3F.B4F81BC0 I sent an e-mail to Ron. As well, I sent Greetings from the list. Thanks =again, Randall R. Gregory. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C07F3F.B4F81BC0 I sent an e-mail to Ron. As well, I = from the list. Thanks again, Randall R. Gregory. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C07F3F.B4F81BC0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jan 15 22:10:32 2001 f0G4AVe14836 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: "A" silk thread. Anglers Workshop in Woodland WA has quite a bit of Japanese silk. Website WWW.anglersworkshop.com phone 360-225-8641. Marty Can anyone give me a source for "A silk. I'm only looking for one color, alight beige. If they have a web site, that would be even better !Thanks,GMA from goodaple@tcac.net Mon Jan 15 22:15:37 2001 f0G4Fae15100 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: New web site Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07F41.3526A220 Nice web site Harry. Very good content, honest and straight to the point =yet eloquently said. Makes me want a new bamboo flyrod. The pictures are =very good offering a little for each style. Reminds me that I still need =to get a web site up and running. By the way I also like how you treated =your reel seat fillers. Overall a very informative and well presented =site.Great Job, Randall R. Gregory ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07F41.3526A220 Nice web site Harry. Very good content,= straight to the point yet eloquently said. Makes me want a new bamboo = The pictures are very good offering a little for each style. Reminds me = still need to get a web site up and running. By the way I also like how = presented site.Great Job, Randall R. Gregory ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C07F41.3526A220-- from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Jan 15 22:17:17 2001 f0G4HGe15265 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id UAA29752; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:17:14 - ETAtAhUAy3Mkmq4/viRVkYIIpghlttNiG1UCFAZHsxcVpXt9Wzus7jIpaYzdMZ5J Subject: "A" silk thread Y.L.I. do make some of these threads. It is 30 denier. Also Britexfabrics in San Francisco carry Kinkame silks in 30 denier. Colors arelimited however. Jerry Young from jczimny@dol.net Mon Jan 15 23:29:36 2001 f0G5TZe16631 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: delamination of strips I've never heard of L-100 being packed in a tube. It usually comes in 5 gallonpails.This glue, if not lumpy and thick, is OK. If the glue poured and mixed OK, itwould have to be either of two things: too much cataylst (over buffering) or,mostprobably, the cane was too dry. The cane has to have 7% or more moisture inorder JohnZ Tony Young wrote: This sounds strange. I'm assuming the L-100 is a UF glue and you mixed thehardener with resin?Other than that contamination of the splines is about all I can think of. Thetemp sounds right and 7 days is quite enough. Hand binding wouldn't havebeenthe problem as plenty of people hand bind.Suggest checking the glue by getting a couple of pieces of pine about 6"longand 1" wide and glue about 1-2" of each end together, leave a few daysthenbreak them apart. You should find the wood fail and not the glue line. If theglue fails I'd deep 6 the glue. Tony At 05:41 PM 1/15/01 -0500, Linda Yuill wrote: While attempting to find the spine on strips glued recently, a snap washeardand I noticed that one strip had become loose. On further investigation, Ifound that all of the strips could be pulled apart rather easily.The glue used was a fresh tube of Bordens L-100. The strips were handboundand allowed to sit in approx. 90 degree room for 7 days. Any thoughtsonthecause? I believe that the strips may have been bound too tight therebysqueezing out the glue. If this is the case what is the fix (other thanbuying a binder)? Should the strips be sanded to remove what little glueresidue is on the strips before reglueing? Thanks in advance. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jan 16 06:12:44 2001 f0GCCie20223 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:12:38 -0800 "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Best of the Planing form This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C07F73.89D6DBA0 The Anglers Art, 800-848-1020, has it listed in their last catalog for =$24.95Don S Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:02 PMSubject: Best of the Planing form Does anyone know of a source where I can get a copy of this book. I =keep reading references to it but just never picked up a copy. I checked =Amazon but they list it as out of print. Thanks, Randall G. (OFFLIST = ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C07F73.89D6DBA0 The Anglers Art, 800-848-1020, has it listed in = catalog for $24.95Don S ----- Original Message ----- Randall= Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001= PMSubject: Best of the Planing =form Does anyone know of a source where I= copy of this book. I keep reading references to it but just never = copy. I checked Amazon but they list it as out of print. Thanks, = ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C07F73.89D6DBA0-- from utzerath@execpc.com Tue Jan 16 06:14:18 2001 f0GCEHe20373 f0GCEIL07376; f0GCEHJ84087; Subject: Re: delamination of strips-moisture John, Do you think that the practice of wiping the finished strips down withisopropyl alcohol (and air drying just before glueing) leaves enoughresidual water to guarantee the 7% moisture content that most UF gluesseemto need? TIA,Jim U ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: delamination of strips I've never heard of L-100 being packed in a tube. It usually comes in 5gallonpails.This glue, if not lumpy and thick, is OK. If the glue poured and mixed OK,itwould have to be either of two things: too much cataylst (over buffering)or, mostprobably, the cane was too dry. The cane has to have 7% or more moisturein order JohnZ from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Jan 16 06:35:31 2001 f0GCZUe20737 +0000 Subject: Crooked reelseat I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis from channer1@rmi.net Tue Jan 16 06:48:10 2001 f0GCm9e20999 2001 05:48:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Dennis;You can get the metal off with heat, but you can kiss the wood fillergoodbye, you'll have to split it off. Count on loosing the last cork,too, if it's an uplock.John Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jan 16 07:11:47 2001 f0GDBje21398 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Dennis - John is right about losing the filler and damaging the cork. If you only have a little bit to go, You might get by with putting a slight twist in the shaft right where it exits the grip. Mask off the front of the cork with foil to avoid scorching it.About the only way of getting a filler off intact is if the hole was oversize and you mounted it on cork or tape. Then you can get some thin tubing froma hobby shop, file teeth in one end, and grind away the cork. You can also use your lathe to turn the filler off and try again from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Jan 16 08:45:04 2001 f0GEj2e23479 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:45:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Is there a good adhesive that's waterproof which will release with heat? Probond might work, but I don't now how you'd use it for reel seats/caps and cork. Bill Hoy At 08:11 AM 1/16/01 -0500, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:Dennis - John is right about losing the filler and damaging the cork. If youonly have a little bit to go, You might get by with putting a slight twist inthe shaft right where it exits the grip. Mask off the front of the cork withfoil to avoid scorching it.About the only way of getting a filler off intact is if the hole was oversizeand you mounted it on cork or tape. Then you can get some thin tubing from ahobby shop, file teeth in one end, and grind away the cork.You can also use your lathe to turn the filler off and try again from Arlon.Motsch@usa.apachecorp.com Tue Jan 16 09:58:29 2001 f0GFwSe26205 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Uslan rod building equipment Any guesses on the value of a large (15 ft long, 1500+ lbs) horizontalbamboo rod milling machine? This was once used by Nate Uslan in his rod mfg.business. I also have 150 or so culms of pre-embargo cane (well aged, mostsplit several places) and assorted other tools like cane splitter, millingjigs, cut off saw, blowers, cutters for the mill, small horizontal millingmachine used to sharpen cutters, several diamond sharpening wheels. Anyguesses or sources of information appreciated. Trying to get it out of thegarage so I can get some pictures posted. Thanks, Arlon.. from rgelder@excite.ca Tue Jan 16 10:33:38 2001 f0GGXbe27848 0800 Subject: Taper Request I have an odd request, so please don't jump all over me on this one. I havea father-in-law who is an avid fisherman. I gave him one of my earlyflyrods (perfectionist) and he absolutely loves it. He has since hinted atme to make another rod one for him. Now the odd part! He wants me to make a bamboo trolling rod for him (he wants to be the onlyboat in the Kootenays of BC to use one). Does anybody have a taper for atrolling rod that could handle rainbows up to 18lbs? He intends to bucktailand run 3-4 inch plugs with this rod. I want to make this rod and presentit to him for his 65th birthday this Sept. Any help would be greatlyappreciated and you can respond off list if this doesn't fit the topic ofthe list. Thanks,.....ron Ron ElderCalgary, ABrgelder@troutchaser.com _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Jan 16 10:54:53 2001 f0GGsqe28878 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:54:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Taper Request Hello Ron, I seems to me that someone posted a few pages from George L. Herter'sbook a while back and it showed some casting and bait rod dimensions. Thatbook might be a good place to start. I think your efforts are admirable and your father-in-law is obviously aman of good taste. Good luck on your quest. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Taper Request I have an odd request, so please don't jump all over me on this one. Ihavea father-in-law who is an avid fisherman. I gave him one of my earlyflyrods (perfectionist) and he absolutely loves it. He has since hintedatme to make another rod one for him. Now the odd part! He wants me to make a bamboo trolling rod for him (he wants to be theonlyboat in the Kootenays of BC to use one). Does anybody have a taper for atrolling rod that could handle rainbows up to 18lbs? He intends tobucktailand run 3-4 inch plugs with this rod. I want to make this rod and presentit to him for his 65th birthday this Sept. Any help would be greatlyappreciated and you can respond off list if this doesn't fit the topic ofthe list. Thanks,.....ron Ron ElderCalgary, ABrgelder@troutchaser.com _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from rmcelvain@uswest.net Tue Jan 16 11:20:37 2001 f0GHKae29927 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.7.64) Subject: re: Crooked reelseat Quicksetting epoxy seems to soften with a very low amount of heat. If you could just heat the reelseat part of the rod very slowly in an oven, trying to rotate the reelseat as it warms? I've never tried it, but I have rotated tip tops held with quickset epoxy, but they were easy to heat with a lighter. Good luck, Bob McElvain from rmcelvain@uswest.net Tue Jan 16 11:26:45 2001 f0GHQhe00353 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.7.64) Subject: Re: delamination of strips-moisture At 06:14 AM 1/16/01 -0600, you wrote:I vaguely remember from somewhere that alcohol leaves a residual film? When freon came out it was considered a great cleaning solvent because it was safe (as compared to tolulene and MEK) and left no pesky film that interfered with painting, printing, or adhesives.Best regards, Bob McElvain John, Do you think that the practice of wiping the finished strips down withisopropyl alcohol (and air drying just before glueing) leaves enoughresidual water to guarantee the 7% moisture content that most UF gluesseemto need? TIA,Jim U ----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:25 PMSubject: Re: delamination of strips I've never heard of L-100 being packed in a tube. It usually comes in 5gallonpails.This glue, if not lumpy and thick, is OK. If the glue poured and mixed OK,itwould have to be either of two things: too much cataylst (over buffering)or, mostprobably, the cane was too dry. The cane has to have 7% or moremoisturein order JohnZ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Jan 16 11:49:15 2001 f0GHnEe01555 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:49:11 +0000 Subject: Re: Taper Request Ron,I have a few Musky type tapers which I will be posting later this weekwhich should be more than suitable ...........Paul RON ELDER wrote: I have an odd request, so please don't jump all over me on this one. I havea father-in-law who is an avid fisherman. I gave him one of my earlyflyrods (perfectionist) and he absolutely loves it. He has since hinted atme to make another rod one for him. Now the odd part! He wants me to make a bamboo trolling rod for him (he wants to be theonlyboat in the Kootenays of BC to use one). Does anybody have a taper for atrolling rod that could handle rainbows up to 18lbs? He intends to bucktailand run 3-4 inch plugs with this rod. I want to make this rod and presentit to him for his 65th birthday this Sept. Any help would be greatlyappreciated and you can respond off list if this doesn't fit the topic ofthe list. Thanks,.....ron Ron ElderCalgary, ABrgelder@troutchaser.com _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 11:58:47 2001 f0GHwke02024 2001 09:58:44 PST Subject: Re: Taper Request ron, this evening when i have time i'll take themeasurement of my broom handle in i" increments. :>) timothy --- RON ELDER wrote:I have an odd request, so please don't jump all overme on this one. I havea father-in-law who is an avid fisherman. I gavehim one of my earlyflyrods (perfectionist) and he absolutely loves it. He has since hinted atme to make another rod one for him. Now the odd part! He wants me to make a bamboo trolling rod for him(he wants to be the onlyboat in the Kootenays of BC to use one). Doesanybody have a taper for atrolling rod that could handle rainbows up to 18lbs?He intends to bucktailand run 3-4 inch plugs with this rod. I want tomake this rod and presentit to him for his 65th birthday this Sept. Any helpwould be greatlyappreciated and you can respond off list if thisdoesn't fit the topic ofthe list. Thanks,.....ron Ron ElderCalgary, ABrgelder@troutchaser.com _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Finanplanr@aol.com Tue Jan 16 13:17:26 2001 f0GJHPe05129 Subject: Reed Curry?? Does anyone here know Reed Curry's e-mail address? Thanks,Stuart Kirkfield from jczimny@dol.net Tue Jan 16 13:22:41 2001 f0GJMee05377 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: delamination of strips-moisture It should. Have you had any problems with this method?JohnZ Jim Utzerath wrote: John, Do you think that the practice of wiping the finished strips down withisopropyl alcohol (and air drying just before glueing) leaves enoughresidual water to guarantee the 7% moisture content that most UF gluesseemto need? TIA,Jim U ----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:25 PMSubject: Re: delamination of strips I've never heard of L-100 being packed in a tube. It usually comes in 5gallonpails.This glue, if not lumpy and thick, is OK. If the glue poured and mixed OK,itwould have to be either of two things: too much cataylst (over buffering)or, mostprobably, the cane was too dry. The cane has to have 7% or moremoisturein order JohnZ from jczimny@dol.net Tue Jan 16 13:22:50 2001 f0GJMne05388 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Hello Dennis, et al,Having done this several times, I ,too, have thrashed around trying to finda solution. Don't waste any more of your time. Just cut the damn thing offand be done with it..JohnZ Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jan 16 13:58:58 2001 f0GJwve07251 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:58:52 -0800 Subject: Nodeless Question Hi List,Thinking about building a few node-less rods. What is your feeling aboutstaggering methods? 2x2x2, 3x3, Garrison or don't worry about it. Thanks in advance. Don from homeydklown@att.net Tue Jan 16 14:02:57 2001 f0GK2ue07639 ;Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:02:53 +0000 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:02:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat All, Thanks for the replies. That's what I thought. I guess I'll leave it alone until I can get another filler. Thanks, DennisHello Dennis, et al,Having done this several times, I ,too, have thrashed around trying to finda solution. Don't waste any more of your time. Just cut the damn thing offand be done with it..JohnZ Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Jan 16 15:04:13 2001 f0GL4Ce10185 Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Don: I build nodeless and use the 3 x 3 staggering of the scarfs. However, Ialso reverse the angles of the scarfs to give me sort of a saw tooth patternif you were to look at it with all 6 strips laying flat. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker Hi List,Thinking about building a few node-less rods. What is your feeling aboutstaggering methods? 2x2x2, 3x3, Garrison or don't worry about it. Thanks in advance. Don from harms1@pa.net Tue Jan 16 15:10:12 2001 f0GLAAe10578 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:09:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat In the old days, I used Boden's yellow "Carpenters' Glue" for all my rods.While it seems to have done a fine job keeping the strips together (some ofmy rods are still used regularly after 25 years), delamination is anextremely easy matter with a little heat from the gun. I don't know thatthis would work on a reelseat, as I have not tried. I imagine that ordinaryhardwoods would absorb more of the glue into the grain structure than wouldthe mating surfaces of cane. Still, you might have luck. Actually, I believe that nearly all glues commonly used by us builderswill break down under heat. The question is, how much heat might berequired? How long do you need to apply the heat in order for it topenetrate to the center of the reelseat, and can you get the job donewithout harming the cane or the wood? That's the bugaboo. chers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: re: Crooked reelseat Quicksetting epoxy seems to soften with a very low amount of heat. If youcould just heat the reelseat part of the rod very slowly in an oven,tryingto rotate the reelseat as it warms? I've never tried it, but I haverotated tip tops held with quickset epoxy, but they were easy to heat witha lighter. Good luck, Bob McElvain from harms1@pa.net Tue Jan 16 15:14:49 2001 f0GLEke10860 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:14:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Don, You're going to hear everything on this topic sooner or later, so I'll justthrow my 2-cents in now. As the staggering method doesn't matter much with rods that have nodes, itshould matter even less for rods that are nodeless. So, there you go. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Nodeless Question Hi List,Thinking about building a few node-less rods. What is your feeling aboutstaggering methods? 2x2x2, 3x3, Garrison or don't worry about it. Thanks in advance. Don from dickay@alltel.net Tue Jan 16 15:29:13 2001 f0GLTCe11609 srv.alltel.net Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Dennis; Don't know what you used to glue the reelseat on with but would itbe possible to use something similar to that used to press the cork on withto remove the reelseat? I would try making a clamp to hold the reelseat andplace a punch the same size as the cane at the end of the reelseat. Now aboard on the other end of the punch. Use all thread on each side to applypressure to this combination. Slowly tighten the nuts on the all thread andapply heat to the filler. As said above use foil to protect the cork. Easyto make and worth a try. Might work.Dick Fuhrman from anglport@con2.com Tue Jan 16 15:46:18 2001 f0GLkHe12664 Subject: Re: Taper Request I think those tapers are all posted on Reed Curry's site at: http://www.overmywaders.com/ Noodle around in his pages and you'll find the Herters' book excerpted.Art At 08:51 AM 01/16/2001 -0800, Richard R. Dutcher wrote:Hello Ron, I seems to me that someone posted a few pages from George L. Herter'sbook a while back and it showed some casting and bait rod dimensions. Thatbook might be a good place to start.I think your efforts are admirable and your father-in-law is obviously aman of good taste. Good luck on your quest. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: "RON ELDER" Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:33 AMSubject: Taper Request I have an odd request, so please don't jump all over me on this one. Ihavea father-in-law who is an avid fisherman. I gave him one of my earlyflyrods (perfectionist) and he absolutely loves it. He has since hintedatme to make another rod one for him. Now the odd part! He wants me to make a bamboo trolling rod for him (he wants to be theonlyboat in the Kootenays of BC to use one). Does anybody have a taper foratrolling rod that could handle rainbows up to 18lbs? He intends tobucktailand run 3-4 inch plugs with this rod. I want to make this rod and presentit to him for his 65th birthday this Sept. Any help would be greatlyappreciated and you can respond off list if this doesn't fit the topic ofthe list. Thanks,.....ron Ron ElderCalgary, ABrgelder@troutchaser.com> from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Jan 1616:15:09 2001 f0GMF8e14497 Subject: Re: Sanding block In a message dated 01/15/2001 4:25:18 PM Central Standard Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: I have another idea (yeah an idea) While building model airplanes for indoor rubber duration (another insanity thing) I found a design for a sanding block that works really well. It is a basic block, but it has "skids" on each side of it to keep the sanding surface from "hitting" a surface. In the case of model airplanes it was so you could sand thin balsa down to .01 or less thickness (thinness?) for delicate indoor models. But in the case of rodmaking, It could keep the sanding block from gouging the planing form. The same principal could be used on a plane. I am working on a Razor plane (i got a cheap Master Airscrew razor plane for $5) and modifying it with thin wire skids to keep it from hitting the planing form.tell you how it works later.mark from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jan 16 16:43:23 2001 f0GMhMe16447 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:42:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Sanding block Mark,I like the idea of the skids on the sanding block. I do a similar thing onmy final plane only I just put a strip of masking tape on each edge of theplane. Surprising how long it last. Works for me.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Sanding block In a message dated 01/15/2001 4:25:18 PM Central Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: I have another idea (yeah an idea) While building model airplanes forindoorrubber duration (another insanity thing) I found a design for a sandingblockthat works really well. It is a basic block, but it has "skids" on eachsideof it to keep the sanding surface from "hitting" a surface. In the case ofmodel airplanes it was so you could sand thin balsa down to .01 or lessthickness (thinness?) for delicate indoor models. But in the case ofrodmaking, It could keep the sanding block from gouging the planing form.The same principal could be used on a plane. I am working on a Razor plane(i got a cheap Master Airscrew razor plane for $5) and modifying it withthinwire skids to keep it from hitting the planing form.tell you how it works later.mark from owen@davies.mv.com Tue Jan 16 16:47:04 2001 f0GMl3e16614 Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script Emanuel.exe? Looks like that attachmentcould be yet another virus. Anyone know it? Owen Davies from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jan 16 17:04:20 2001 f0GN4Je17502 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Hi Dennis, I have removed seats that were glued with 5 min,. epoxy.Wood spacer and all. I used a heat gun on low/medium and patients. Thisis the exact reason I use Ferrule-Tite on ferrules and 5 min. epoxy onhardware. Marty Hello Dennis, et al,Having done this several times, I ,too, have thrashed around trying to finda solution. Don't waste any more of your time. Just cut the damn thing offand be done with it..JohnZ Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jan 16 17:10:44 2001 f0GNAhe17788 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script Nope, and I didn't open it. Got it twice and deleted it both times. I'mattachment gunshy since the kakWorm virus of late. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script Emanuel.exe? Looks like that attachmentcould be yet another virus. Anyone know it? Owen Davies from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jan 16 17:21:25 2001 f0GNLPe18265 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:21:20 -0800 Subject: Emmanuel Virus Don't open this puppy!Don TROJ_NAVIDAD.ERisk rating:Virus type: TrojanDestructive: Y Aliases:NAVIDAD.E, NAVIDAD.B, EMMANUEL, TROJ_EMMANUEL Description:This malicious Internet worm uses Microsoft Messaging Application ProgramInterface (MAPI132.DLL) to propagate via email. It replies to all messagesin the email INBOX and attaches a copy of itself to each reply. It alsomodifies the registry so that it executes at every Windows start up. Thisvariant of the infamous TROJ_NAVIDAD.A displays error messages andpreventsthe infected user from running executable programs as its payload. Thedifferences between this variant and the original Trojan are in the icon ituses, the messages it uses, and the file it drops. Solution:Warning: Please delete the registry entries before running Trend antivirus. Use this tool, fix_navid2.zip, to automatically clean your system registryand delete the dropped file, WINSVRC.VXD.Restart the computer.Scan your system with Trend antivirus and delete all files detected asTROJ_NAVIDAD.E. To do this Trend customers must download the latestpatternfile and scan their system. Other email users may use Trend HouseCall, afree online virus scanner.If you need further assistance with this solution, please send an email tovirus_doctor@trendmicro.com. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jan 16 17:33:41 2001 f0GNXee18800 Subject: Re: Para 16 Harry,I have come to the conclusion that there never has been, and never will besuch a thing as a Para 16 except in the minds of the marketing dept. at PHYRod Co., but no, it is not driving me crazy. I've been that for far to long Still taperless,M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Para 16 MD,There's really no such thing as a Para-16. It's all a figment of yourimagination intended to drive you crazy. Is it working? Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Okay, no more kidding around! I want that damned taper, and I want itNOW! QuÄ es el problema? I can't believe no one has this taper. I've sente-mails all over the place with no success. Some people will be lookingforthe taper, but to date no one has come forth with it. We have everythingelse PHY did but not the 16. Where is the 16? M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Richard R. Dutcher" ... and we all know what happens to someone who taunts Jojo. Tisk tisk. DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from bamboo@pa.net Tue Jan 16 17:36:48 2001 f0GNake19057 Subject: Re: delamination of strips I had the same problem recently and I had the glue just shipped from areputable source the day I glued. I attributed it to the fact that one ofmy stripshad turned in and i had to unbind the whole works and start overpossibly the glue had started to set by the time I got through this wholeprocess. Bill----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: delamination of strips This sounds strange. I'm assuming the L-100 is a UF glue and you mixed thehardener with resin?Other than that contamination of the splines is about all I can think of.Thetemp sounds right and 7 days is quite enough. Hand binding wouldn't havebeenthe problem as plenty of people hand bind.Suggest checking the glue by getting a couple of pieces of pine about 6"longand 1" wide and glue about 1-2" of each end together, leave a few daysthenbreak them apart. You should find the wood fail and not the glue line. Iftheglue fails I'd deep 6 the glue. Tony At 05:41 PM 1/15/01 -0500, Linda Yuill wrote: While attempting to find the spine on strips glued recently, a snap washeardand I noticed that one strip had become loose. On furtherinvestigation, Ifound that all of the strips could be pulled apart rathereasily.The glue used was a fresh tube of Bordens L-100. The strips were handboundand allowed to sit in approx. 90 degree room for 7 days. Any thoughtsonthecause? I believe that the strips may have been bound too tighttherebysqueezing out the glue. If this is the case what is the fix (other thanbuying a binder)? Should the strips be sanded to remove what littleglueresidue is on the strips before reglueing? Thanks in advance. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from across@www.downandacross.com Tue Jan 16 17:51:20 2001 f0GNpKe19625 (38.26.210.253) Subject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script Sorry to ask, but what is the attachment? I am lost here.Bob At 11:10 PM 1/16/2001 +0100, Johan Nygaardsvold wrote: Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from drinkr@voicenet.com Tue Jan 16 17:55:56 2001 f0GNtte19871 (209.71.51.111) Subject: Dickerson Book This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C07FED.E05C5CA0 I've spent the better part of a week trying to locate a copy of Dickerson.The Man & His Rods, Stein, G & J. Schaaf Centennial [1991] . Coming upunsuccessful, I thought it might be a good time to inspire the originalpublisher to consider a reissue of the original if at all possible. It maybe an impossible task . The opportunity to obtain any of the previouslyissued texts on bamboo would be worth the effort ,I think. I neededa bit ofinformation before going any further . Was the original publisher CentennialPublications of 256 Nashua Court, Grand Junction, Colorado 81503? Alsoarethere enough makers interested in writing for a reissue? Thanks inadvance..David Rinker> from across@www.downandacross.com Tue Jan 16 18:06:032001 f0H062e20276 (38.26.210.253) Subject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script thanks John and Bob for responding. I didn't open it. Boy that Edwards subject line had me all excited, too. Boy, if it would have said Para 16 taper, I know someone who wouldn't have a working computer right now. Right, M- D?Thanks,Bob At 06:58 PM 1/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:Don't open the attachment!!!! It is the same as the Navidad virus that went around a while ago. I got that and it took me a good part of a day to fix my machine!!! Don't open anything with an EXE suffix!!!!!!! Unless you are absolutely sure that it is safe! John K. ----- Original Message -----From: Bob Maulucci Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:49 PMSubject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script Sorry to ask, but what is the attachment? I am lost here.Bob At 11:10 PM 1/16/2001 +0100, Johan Nygaardsvold wrote: Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Jan 16 18:55:27 2001 f0H0tRe21585 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Dickerson Book This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C07FDA.9413D660 I purchased all the remaining copies by the publisher last year (12) and Ijust sold my last copy today. It took him 9 years to sell all the copies heprinted so I don't know how anxious he is to do a reprint. Yes Centennial isthe publisher. I've asked him to please reprint more of several of his books withoutsuccess. Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: Dickerson Book I've spent the better part of a week trying to locate a copy of Dickerson.The Man & His Rods, Stein, G & J. Schaaf Centennial [1991] . Coming upunsuccessful, I thought it might be a good time to inspire the originalpublisher to consider a reissue of the original if at all possible. Itmay be an impossible task . The opportunity to obtain any of thepreviously issued texts on bamboo would be worth the effort ,I think. Ineededa bit of information before going any further . Was the originalpublisher Centennial Publications of 256 Nashua Court, Grand Junction,Colorado 81503? Also are there enough makers interested in writing forareissue? Thanks in advance..David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C07FDA.9413D660 name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C07FDA.9413D660-- from homessold@email.msn.com Tue Jan 16 19:00:48 2001 f0H10me21844 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:17:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Emmanuel Virus List,If you didn't open this virus and want to make sure your system is clean goto http://www.antivirus.com/ and run the free scan. Takes a while but maymake you feel better even if it doesn't find anything. If you opened it,follow the procedure below. If we ever find the people that get their kicksdoing this stuff, I vote that we run their ego's through our planers acouple of times.Good luckDon----- Original Message ----- Subject: Emmanuel Virus Don't open this puppy!Don TROJ_NAVIDAD.ERisk rating:Virus type: TrojanDestructive: Y Aliases:NAVIDAD.E, NAVIDAD.B, EMMANUEL, TROJ_EMMANUEL Description:This malicious Internet worm uses Microsoft Messaging Application ProgramInterface (MAPI132.DLL) to propagate via email. It replies to all messagesin the email INBOX and attaches a copy of itself to each reply. It alsomodifies the registry so that it executes at every Windows start up. Thisvariant of the infamous TROJ_NAVIDAD.A displays error messages andpreventsthe infected user from running executable programs as its payload. Thedifferences between this variant and the original Trojan are in the icon ituses, the messages it uses, and the file it drops. Solution:Warning: Please delete the registry entries before running Trend antivirus. Use this tool, fix_navid2.zip, to automatically clean your system registryand delete the dropped file, WINSVRC.VXD.Restart the computer.Scan your system with Trend antivirus and delete all files detected asTROJ_NAVIDAD.E. To do this Trend customers must download the latestpatternfile and scan their system. Other email users may use Trend HouseCall, afree online virus scanner.If you need further assistance with this solution, please send an email tovirus_doctor@trendmicro.com. from Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com Tue Jan 16 19:02:28 2001 f0H12Re21979 (5.5.2650.21) Rodmakers Subject: RE: Dickerson Book Jerry Stien has them on his site, but they're not cheap! Here's the link... http://www.classicbambooflyrods.com/ -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: RE: Dickerson Book I purchased all the remaining copies by the publisher last year (12) and Ijust sold my last copy today. It took him 9 years to sell all the copieshe printed so I don't know how anxious he is to do a reprint. YesCentennial is the publisher. I've asked him to please reprint more of several of his books withoutsuccess. Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: Dickerson Book I've spent the better part of a week trying to locate a copy ofDickerson. The Man & His Rods, Stein, G & J. Schaaf Centennial [1991] .Coming up unsuccessful, I thought it might be a good time to inspire theoriginal publisher to consider a reissue of the original if at allpossible. It may be an impossible task . The opportunity to obtain any ofthe previously issued texts on bamboo would be worth the effort ,I think.I neededa bit of information before going any further . Was the originalpublisher Centennial Publications of 256 Nashua Court, Grand Junction,Colorado 81503? Also are there enough makers interested in writing forareissue? Thanks in advance..David Rinker from anglport@con2.com Tue Jan 16 19:11:17 2001 f0H1BGe22343 Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script It is! At least my McAfee Viruscan thinks so.Art At 05:48 PM 01/16/2001 -0500, Owen Davies wrote:Emanuel.exe? Looks like that attachmentcould be yet another virus. Anyone know it? Owen Davies from Paradise52@aol.com Tue Jan 16 19:20:43 2001 f0H1Kge22791 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Hi Dennis,I work at REC components and we remove seats with a heat gun....verygently, but steady heat up and down the seat. Grasp it with pliers protected w/ a folded cloth or rubber and turn gently. It may take a bit, but don't force it. Go easy so you dont damage the blank.Good luck,Mark P. from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 16 19:41:37 2001 f0H1fae23607 UAA20866; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script Bob give M-D the 8' Edwards quad that I sent.....Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: thanks John and Bob for responding. I didn't open it. Boy that Edwardssubject line had me all excited, too. Boy, if it would have said Para 16taper, I know someone who wouldn't have a working computer right now.Right, M- D?Thanks,Bob At 06:58 PM 1/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:Don't open the attachment!!!! It is the same as the Navidad virus thatwent around a while ago. I got that and it took me a good part of a dayto fix my machine!!! Don't open anything with an EXE suffix!!!!!!! Unless you are absolutelysure that it is safe! John K. ----- Original Message -----From: Bob Maulucci Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:49 PMSubject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script Sorry to ask, but what is the attachment? I am lost here.Bob At 11:10 PM 1/16/2001 +0100, Johan Nygaardsvold wrote: Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from goodaple@tcac.net Tue Jan 16 20:30:38 2001 f0H2Uce24721 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: RE: CROOKED REELSEAT Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C07FFB.AE507080 Why not heat the endcap of the reelseat until it releases and then =direct a concentrated blast of hot air into the end of the wood filler =with the hopes that it may allow some loosening of the adhesive and the =gently twist as the the hold continues to breakdown? Randall Gregory =NW AR. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C07FFB.AE507080 Why not heat the endcap of thereelseat = releases and then direct a concentrated blast of hot air into the end of = wood filler with the hopes that it may allow some loosening of the = Gregory NW AR. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C07FFB.AE507080-- from jon@twinpinesrods.com Tue Jan 16 20:57:55 2001 f0H2vse25645 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Dennis, If you used 5 minute epoxy heat will soften it and it will eventually comeoff. If you have a heat gun that should work. Otherwise take JohnZ'S advice and cut it off. From: Dennis Haftel Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:43:10 -0800 Subject: Crooked reelseat I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis from cadams46@juno.com Tue Jan 16 21:13:51 2001 f0H3Doe26269 22:13:35 EST Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat I don't think anyone said this and to be honest I've never had theproblem of a crooked reel seat I couldn't live with but what aboutboiling it? Because it seems to me that a heat gun will make a mess ofthe seat finish but if you boil it you can get the heat to it withoutscorching the laquer. Or hell maybe the laquer would just boil up offthe wood and make a mess anyway. What do you guys think, anyone tryedthis?C.R. Adams from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 16 21:29:33 2001 f0H3TWe27065 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Chase,Don't forget, you've got a rod shaft made of six pieces of bamboo underthat wood. Messing up the reel seat filler is a shame. Messing up thebamboo under it might be a catastrophe.Boiling water would make a mess of both of them. And I suspect that aheat gun will get the seat much warmer than 212* F, if you take it slow andeasy.Harry cadams46@juno.com wrote: I don't think anyone said this and to be honest I've never had theproblem of a crooked reel seat I couldn't live with but what aboutboiling it? "...Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-----------Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 16 21:45:00 2001 f0H3iwe27615 Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:44:56 +0800 Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:44:54 +0800 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Does anybody out there know why this actually happens? I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too late the seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony At 02:17 PM 1/16/01 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote:Hello Dennis, et al,Having done this several times, I ,too, have thrashed around trying to finda solution. Don't waste any more of your time. Just cut the damn thing offand be done with it..JohnZ Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, DennisAV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from jczimny@dol.net Tue Jan 16 21:47:07 2001 f0H3l6e27788 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script My Norton picked it up right away as it was coming.JohnZ Owen Davies wrote: Emanuel.exe? Looks like that attachmentcould be yet another virus. Anyone know it? Owen Davies from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 16 21:47:25 2001 f0H3lNe27813 Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:47:23 +0800 Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:47:22 +0800 Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Don't worry about staggering per se just try to make sure no scarfs sitnext to each other which I guess is staggering in a way.I'm unsure if this would cause weakness but it looks bad. Tony At 12:05 PM 1/16/01 -0800, Don Schneider wrote:Hi List,Thinking about building a few node-less rods. What is your feeling aboutstaggering methods? 2x2x2, 3x3, Garrison or don't worry about it. Thanks in advance. Don /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 22:04:09 2001 f0H448e28486 2001 20:04:06 PST Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat yes, and steam. it works. timothy --- cadams46@juno.com wrote:I don't think anyone said this and to be honest I'venever had theproblem of a crooked reel seat I couldn't live withbut what aboutboiling it? Because it seems to me that a heat gunwill make a mess ofthe seat finish but if you boil it you can get theheat to it withoutscorching the laquer. Or hell maybe the laquerwould just boil up offthe wood and make a mess anyway. What do you guysthink, anyone tryedthis?C.R. Adams ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 22:15:59 2001 f0H4Fwe28844 2001 20:16:00 PST Subject: baby oil you gentlemen that use baby oil and rubbing compoundon your rod, with what do you clean off the oil? soapand water? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from goodaple@tcac.net Tue Jan 16 22:43:12 2001 f0H4hBe29408 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: RE: Crooked Reelseat Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C0800E.3A0864E0 Welll... I had a rod that I had made that just wasn't my style of action =and I had been planning to salvage all of the components so I pulled it =out of my rack and went to work on it a few minutes ago. I had mounted =the reelseat with golf club shafting epoxie (which I also use to mount =my ferrules) and I first heated the endcap of the seat and it came off =with no problem. It took longer to heat the wood insert but it did =eventually come off. I managed to salvage the entire reelseat with no =problems and no visible damage to the rod shaft. A nice slow to moderate =action if anyone needs another tomato stake.(I just didn't like the =action) 7ftr. By the way shafting epoxie is what I always use on =ferrules because of its stress endurance. I figure if a golf club head =can handle it so can my rods. OK there's one of my secrets. Good luck =with getting your reelseat off. Randall R. Gregory NW ARK. ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C0800E.3A0864E0 Welll... I had a rod that I had made = components so I pulled it out of my rack and went to work on it a few = ago. I had mounted the reelseat with golf club shafting epoxie (which I = to mount my ferrules) and I first heated the endcap of the seat and it = problems and no visible damage to the rod shaft. A nice slow to moderate = if anyone needs another tomato stake.(I just didn't like the action) = the way shafting epoxie is what I always use on ferrules because of its = endurance. I figure if a golf club head can handle it so can my rods. OK = one of my secrets. Good luck with getting your reelseat off. Randall R. = NW ARK. ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C0800E.3A0864E0-- from channer1@rmi.net Tue Jan 16 22:57:55 2001 f0H4vse29806 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Tony;Gremlins do it as soon as you close the door on the shop, they have alsobeen known to thro sand in perfect finishes and to change the order ofyour freshly glued strips so you wind up with the nodes next to eachother. I've tried to catch the little b-----ds at it, but so far theyhave eluded me, the next step is a string tied to the trigger of astrategically aimed 12 guage.John Tony Young wrote: Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 16 23:07:43 2001 f0H57ge00199 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat John,Yep, that explains it. No question. If you ever catch one of those little&*^%'s, bust his chops once or twice for me.Harry channer wrote: Gremlins do it as soon as you close the door on the shop, they have alsobeen known to thro sand in perfect finishes and to change the order ofyour freshly glued strips so you wind up with the nodes next to eachother. I've tried to catch the little b-----ds at it, but so far theyhave eluded me, the next step is a string tied to the trigger of astrategically aimed 12 guage.John --"...Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-----------Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ from jczimny@dol.net Tue Jan 16 23:51:44 2001 f0H5pie01328 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat In some boat shops they maintain a special chair called the "moaning chair".Not to be outdone by the boat builders, I put one in my own shop. I've foundthat it works very well after I've made a major mistake. I've also found thatit works even better if one takes his "anti-stroke inbibulation" (booze forthose under fifty) while sitting in said chair. So, I say, "up the gremlins".JohnZ channer wrote: Tony;Gremlins do it as soon as you close the door on the shop, they have alsobeen known to thro sand in perfect finishes and to change the order ofyour freshly glued strips so you wind up with the nodes next to eachother. I've tried to catch the little b-----ds at it, but so far theyhave eluded me, the next step is a string tied to the trigger of astrategically aimed 12 guage.John Tony Young wrote: Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony from goodaple@tcac.net Tue Jan 16 23:56:33 2001 f0H5uWe01534 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: RE:Crooked Reelseat\now GREMLINS Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08018.7C1FC080 I like the shotgun idea. Loaded (both barrels) with bamboo splinters. =Randall G. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08018.7C1FC080 I like the shotgun idea. Loaded (both = bamboo splinters. Randall G. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08018.7C1FC080-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Jan 16 23:59:55 2001 f0H5xse01716 Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:59:50 -0800 Subject: Crooked Realseat & Why This is my own observation on the phenomenon of wondering realseats.First, I would like to place the blame where it belongs. The glue did it!The glue did not fail to hold. In fact it held so well that when adjustmentswere made to line everything up it tried to return to its last position. Most adhesive, especially epoxies, have a great amount of elasticityduring the curing process. In the case of epoxies the curing starts themoment the components come in contact with each other. By the time thecomponents are mixed, the glue is applied, the reelseat mounted, and theover flow is cleaned up the elasticity in the partially cured glue hasstarted to increase. This is the time final adjustments are made. I have adjusted a realseat 1/4" and watched it return to almost theoriginal position within one minute. Most of the time I can adjust and thereelseat stays right where I left it. My conclusion is getting the mixcorrect, time, temperature and humidity are most likely the gremlins. Myfavorite gremlin insurance; masking tape. Anyway, those are my thoughts on this subject. I do watch epoxy cure andI have watched varnish dry. Yes, I know, I do need to get out more (sigh). Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jan 17 01:31:06 2001 f0H7V5e03834 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: baby oil Timothy,Don't know, but I use Olive Oil and compound (an old lutheirs thing) andit comes off fine with denatured alcohol. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: baby oil you gentlemen that use baby oil and rubbing compoundon your rod, with what do you clean off the oil? soapand water? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Wed Jan 17 01:32:53 2001 f0H7Wre03993 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Amen, John... every shop has these same Gremlins... mine, it seems, inabundance. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Tony;Gremlins do it as soon as you close the door on the shop, they have alsobeen known to thro sand in perfect finishes and to change the order ofyour freshly glued strips so you wind up with the nodes next to eachother. I've tried to catch the little b-----ds at it, but so far theyhave eluded me, the next step is a string tied to the trigger of astrategically aimed 12 guage.John Tony Young wrote: Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 17 03:47:57 2001 f0H9lue08254 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat John, Can't figure why you rodmakers should have trouble with the gremlin's.Being a eye doctor they have followed me for thirty years stealing at leastthreepens a week. That's a lot of pens. Why would they give up such a lucrativequest to bother you folks.....Rich Colo "J. C. Zimny" wrote: In some boat shops they maintain a special chair called the "moaning chair".Not to be outdone by the boat builders, I put one in my own shop. I'vefoundthat it works very well after I've made a major mistake. I've also foundthatit works even better if one takes his "anti-stroke inbibulation" (booze forthose under fifty) while sitting in said chair. So, I say, "up the gremlins".JohnZ channer wrote: Tony;Gremlins do it as soon as you close the door on the shop, they have alsobeen known to thro sand in perfect finishes and to change the order ofyour freshly glued strips so you wind up with the nodes next to eachother. I've tried to catch the little b-----ds at it, but so far theyhave eluded me, the next step is a string tied to the trigger of astrategically aimed 12 guage.John Tony Young wrote: Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jan 17 05:32:26 2001 f0HBWPe11662 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: quad tapers Hi List, Here is a Edwards Quad taper I miked last year but can'tremember if I posted it. So here it is. 7'6" 2pc. #5 line Edwards Quadrate #42 taper to follow:tip Butt00 .066 .20605 .081 .21110 .105 .23015 .119 .24520 .129 .25725 .148 .26230 .165 .28235 .168 .301 351/2" start of cork grip40 .179 ? .30145 .187 ? .301Guide spacing tip: 4",9", 147/8", 20 3/4, 27" ,34 7/8",42 3/4"butt: 8" ,17 1/8"(stripper) 6" cork grip/ 3 1/2" seat (corkspacer) measurments are an average across both flats and taken over varnish.Deduct .003 for varnish. Good Luck, Marty from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Jan 17 05:35:46 2001 f0HBZie11833 f0HBZVx40561; Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Organization: vet Yeah, Tony You know my theory about why I canot use my scanner, don't you. Same thing with the reelseats! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony At 02:17 PM 1/16/01 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote:Hello Dennis, et al,Having done this several times, I ,too, have thrashed around trying tofinda solution. Don't waste any more of your time. Just cut the damn thingoffand be done with it..JohnZ Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I setitdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Jan 17 06:09:07 2001 f0HC96e13219 f0HC97L04484; f0HC95E25022; Subject: Re: delamination of strips-moisture John,No. I have had failures obviously due to other causes (low temperature andinsufficient catalyst). My concern is that I presume that oven tempering afew hours before gluing leaves the cane too dry (I have no means ofmeasuring actual moisture.) Wiping with isopropyl alcohol should removefinger oil and allow the cane to absorb some water, (I think, unless theevaporation of the alcohol actually desiccates the cane).Jim U It should. Have you had any problems with this method?JohnZ Jim Utzerath wrote: John, Do you think that the practice of wiping the finished strips down withisopropyl alcohol (and air drying just before glueing) leaves enoughresidual water to guarantee the 7% moisture content that most UF gluesseemto need? TIA,Jim U ----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:25 PMSubject: Re: delamination of strips I've never heard of L-100 being packed in a tube. It usually comes in5gallonpails.This glue, if not lumpy and thick, is OK. If the glue poured and mixedOK,itwould have to be either of two things: too much cataylst (overbuffering)or, mostprobably, the cane was too dry. The cane has to have 7% or moremoisturein order JohnZ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Jan 17 07:18:11 2001 (may be forged)) f0HDIAe15418 Subject: RE: Mass Market As you can see I'm a bit behind in my list reading, but..... What I enjoy are all the craftsmen slaving away to make their products lookperfectly smooth and symmetrical, while many fashionable mass- produceditemsin the stores attempt to imitate real hand craftsmanship by includingirregularities. I just cut to the chase and not worry too much about a fewcosmetic flaws -- this makes me a real craftsman, doesn't it? Barry -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Mass Market BULLS EYE! Tony At 05:14 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Brian Creek wrote: Just found this whilst reading to my 9 year old. Applies nicely to thecurrent current rehashing of Terry's complaint. Hobbes walks up to Calvin putting the finishing touches on a snowman. Hobbes: What's this?Calvin: A generic snowman. I used to make original snowmen, but it was time-consuming,hardwork. So I said, Heck, this is crazy!Now I crank out crude imitations of what's already popular!Ittakes no time or thought, and most people don't care about thedifference anyway!Hobbes: So cynical, yet so practical.Calvin: And what good is originality if you can't crank it out? 8^)Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Jan 17 07:32:51 2001 f0HDWoe15872 Subject: Gremlins Ahem! speaking from vast experience! (imagine a fat bald guy grabbing the lapels of my non existant smoking jacket) as a beginning rodmaker, but long experience with building model aircraft from wood, I totally concur with the gremlin idea. (probably the elasticity of epoxy as well!) These are well known small creatures known to warm wings, twist fuselages and otherwise render said aircraft suitable for nothing but Hanger Queens and the nextswap meet, whereupon you invariably run into the fellow who bought yourworthless merchandise and he overflows extaticly about what a wonderful machine it is and what a bargain!I can see the same thing with reel seats. "No, I designed it that way, less stress on the wrist, more ergonomic dont you see!"arrrgh!(having fun with all of this!)mark from RGraves@wc.stephens.edu Wed Jan 17 08:15:12 2001 f0HEFBe18825 Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: VIRUS....agian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: InoculateIT detected the (Win32/Navidad.Worm) virus in Mailbox(Graves, Ron), Sender (Johan Nygaardsvold) !!! The (Win32/Navidad.Worm) virus was detected in (Graves, Ron\Emanuel.exe)and was sent by (Johan Nygaardsvold). Action: (File was Deleted.). from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Jan 17 08:43:38 2001 f0HEhbe20282 (63.228.46.181) Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Murphy's third law states that if there is more than one way for somethingto go wrong, the way it will go is the way that does the most damage.Dave -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat In some boat shops they maintain a special chair called the "moaningchair".Not to be outdone by the boat builders, I put one in my own shop. I'vefoundthat it works very well after I've made a major mistake. I've also foundthatit works even better if one takes his "anti-stroke inbibulation" (booze forthose under fifty) while sitting in said chair. So, I say, "up thegremlins".JohnZ channer wrote: Tony;Gremlins do it as soon as you close the door on the shop, they have alsobeen known to thro sand in perfect finishes and to change the order ofyour freshly glued strips so you wind up with the nodes next to eachother. I've tried to catch the little b-----ds at it, but so far theyhave eluded me, the next step is a string tied to the trigger of astrategically aimed 12 guage.John Tony Young wrote: Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine whileyoucan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Wed Jan 17 09:42:50 2001 f0HFgne24581 0500 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C08073.4470A040 Heat is the last thing to use, heat does not discriminate as to what partsit affects. Torque forces usually break all unions and both of these are noteasily seen and can show up at a later date making for and unhappy client. Iuse a laser pointer set up in a jig on the rod lathe for setting r/s,guides, snakes, and tip tops. In my experience it is not hard to be out whenaliening hardware. Take care, Tim Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C08073.4470A040 Normal0DocumentEmail =0=0 Heat is =the lastthing to use, heat does not discriminate as to what parts it affects. =Torqueforces usually break all unions and both of these are not easily seen =and canshow up at a later date making for and unhappy client. I use a laser =pointerset up in a jig on the rod lathe for setting r/s, guides, snakes, and =tip tops.In my experience it is not hard to be out when aliening =hardware. Take =care, Tim Signature" Upstream =Always, Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C08073.4470A040-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Jan 17 09:43:00 2001 f0HFgxe24596 JAA09656 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat My second rod had a twist about 6" above the butt end. No problem,said I, it will be under the grip and never be seen again. Well I epoxied the reel seat _in line with the twisted part_. It droveme nuts trying to fish with it. A heat gun got the grip off butI had to refinish the insert.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 17 10:04:43 2001 f0HG4he26362 Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:54:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script No, but I never open an attachment with "exe" in it !GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 17 10:25:49 2001 f0HGPme27477 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:25:40 +0800 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:25:39 +0800 Subject: RE: Mass Market In a fashionable part of Perth there was an "adult shop" very close to afurnature shop of the type selling very expensive cheaply made rubber woodjunk. Real junk with huge gobs of mis matched colour putty filling hols,you know the stuff. The owners of this place used to "stress" this junkwith chains, through it down the stairs that kind of thing. The proximity of these two shops with all this going on used to make mewonder about all this S&M going on and just what kind of society are webuilding here?Since getting into making bamboo rods and doing all sorts of things to tryto make them as well as possible knowing marketing can make none of itmatter in the end anyhow I'm now completely confused about who's doingwhatto who :-) yours in concentric circles Tony At 07:17 AM 1/17/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: As you can see I'm a bit behind in my list reading, but..... What I enjoy are all the craftsmen slaving away to make their products lookperfectly smooth and symmetrical, while many fashionable mass- produceditemsin the stores attempt to imitate real hand craftsmanship by includingirregularities. I just cut to the chase and not worry too much about a fewcosmetic flaws -- this makes me a real craftsman, doesn't it? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 5:37 PM Cc: Dick & Kathy Fuhrman; dutcher@email.msn.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Mass Market BULLS EYE! Tony At 05:14 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Brian Creek wrote: Just found this whilst reading to my 9 year old. Applies nicely to thecurrent current rehashing of Terry's complaint. Hobbes walks up to Calvin putting the finishing touches on a snowman. Hobbes: What's this?Calvin: A generic snowman. I used to make original snowmen, but it was time-consuming,hardwork. So I said, Heck, this is crazy!Now I crank out crude imitations of what's already popular!Ittakes no time or thought, and most people don't care about thedifference anyway!Hobbes: So cynical, yet so practical.Calvin: And what good is originality if you can't crank it out? 8^)Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ "The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, beregarded as a criminal offense." - Edsgar Dijkstra from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 17 10:26:54 2001 f0HGQre27713 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:26:52 +0800 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:26:51 +0800 Subject: RE: Crooked Reelseat Well done and thanks for the advise. Tony At 10:46 PM 1/16/01 -0600, Randall Gregory wrote: Welll... I had a rod that I had made that just wasn't my style of action andI had been planning to salvage all of the components so I pulled it outof myrack and went to work on it a few minutes ago. I had mounted the reelseatwith golf club shafting epoxie (which I also use to mount my ferrules) and Ifirst heated the endcap of the seat and it came off with no problem. Ittooklonger to heat the wood insert but it did eventually come off. I managed tosalvage the entire reelseat with no problems and no visible damage to therodshaft. A nice slow to moderate action if anyone needs another tomatostake.(Ijust didn't like the action) 7ftr. By the way shafting epoxie is what Ialways use on ferrules because of its stress endurance. I figure if a golfclub head can handle it so can my rods. OK there's one of my secrets. Goodluck with getting your reelseat off. Randall R. Gregory NW ARK. /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 17 10:31:53 2001 f0HGVqe28135 Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script Folks, need help....I never use my computer at the office for gettingmail. This is the computer I send all my digital photo's of the eye todifferent specialists with. For some reason (I'll never know) when Iwent to send a photo yesterday it started accepting other mail...Inreviewing that mail I came across the Edward's infected mail. I havetwo years worth of digital photo's on this hard drive. (Do have most ofthem backed up). There were two files that I tried to open and thecomputer said to me that they were different and are you sure you wantto proceed....I said no. Should I be OK. I'm obviously not very goodat this computer stuff......Rich nobler wrote: No, but I never open an attachment with "exe" in it !GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 17 10:52:11 2001 f0HGq9e29441 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:52:09 +0800 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:52:07 +0800 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" I used to have a moaning chair and wound up ceremonially burning it on thepyre that was a cedar strip English 20 canoe that looked perfect until Ipopped it off the mould and saw it corkscrew due to the twisted strong backit was made on. That was my first boat and never made that mistake again.Since then I've always kept chairs out of my workshop and found that when Ibugger it up it's easier emotionally if I just break it so I'm not temptedto try fixing it and just start again figuring it was good practice ifnothing else. I do agree about the booze though, very much in fact.Not saying my work is perfect but that's my aim. Incidentally if anybody's interested the next English 20 was something Inever tiered of looking at and using. Highly recommend it as an excellentpaddling and light tripping canoe which I used to catch a lot of trout andsaratoga with. I have a long shot pic of it with me with my 2 kids when the oldest was In some boat shops they maintain a special chair called the "moaning chair".Not to be outdone by the boat builders, I put one in my own shop. I've foundthat it works very well after I've made a major mistake. I've also found thatit works even better if one takes his "anti-stroke inbibulation" (booze forthose under fifty) while sitting in said chair. So, I say, "up the gremlins".JohnZ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, beregarded as a criminal offense." - Edsgar Dijkstra /*************************************************************************/ from newmin@ptdprolog.net Wed Jan 17 10:53:57 2001 f0HGrve29623 Subject: wraps Hello Guru'sI have always brush finished my rods with good results. I figured if Idipped them I would get better results. It does make a great finish, but,now i get bleeding on my wraps. I'm using the same silk thread and samecolor(red) the same varnish (helmsman spar urethane) and same colorpreserver that i have always used. I apply 4 coats of color preserver,allowing each coat to dry about 12 hours.I wait 24 hours after final coat ofpreserver is applied and then 4 coats of varnish are then applied to thewraps (24 hrs apart). I usually brush on 3 to 4 coats on the entire rod andhave seldom had a problem. Now that i tried to dip them they all bleedthrough next to the feet of the guides. The only difference is that I amnow using Black guides instead of chrome. I'm not blaming the guides butcould this be the problem? I always rinse my guides in some alchol before iwrap them to try and remove any excess oils. Any suggestions? thanks inadvanceNewmin from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 17 10:57:07 2001 f0HGv5e29954 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:57:06 +0800 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:57:05 +0800 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat I sort of remember from my child hood a fairy tale about a cobbler who washard pressed getting all his work done honestly but somehow had some dealgoing where elves would work through the night in sweatshop conditions anddo all his work for him.No doubt in time the lazy SOB grew fat and smoked huge cigars then openedachain of shoe shops. Now, what I want to know is why do cobblers get the good guys and all weget are trouble makers ?? At 10:00 PM 1/16/01 -0700, channer wrote:Tony;Gremlins do it as soon as you close the door on the shop, they have alsobeen known to thro sand in perfect finishes and to change the order ofyour freshly glued strips so you wind up with the nodes next to eachother. I've tried to catch the little b----- ds at it, but so far theyhave eluded me, the next step is a string tied to the trigger of astrategically aimed 12 guage.John Tony Young wrote: Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan 17 10:58:43 2001 f0HGwge00258 Subject: Crooked Reel Seat Wow, This tread has really got things going.I have not had this happen to me but I did haveone expensive reel seat that the metal part didmove on the insert about 1/8". Still that way inthe reel seat draw. I glue the metal parts to theinsert and install it as a unit.In aligning the reel seat to the guides I glue thereel seat last as some do. A reel is put in placeon the seat and aligned with the guides. On thefront foot of the reel I put the slightest bit ofvaseline to keep the foot from sticking on anyglue I might of gotten in the foot slot.I have a fixture made up to hold the rod, just twouprights with "V"s cut in them. The rod is set inthe "V"s with the reel hanging between them. Theweight of the reel keeps the seat where you put iton the rod. Just make sure the guides are alsoaligned with the reelseat.I may just be lucky but I have not had a reelseatmis-aligned on a rod yet. Notice I said "yet".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 17 11:08:23 2001 f0HH8Le01716 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 01:08:21 +0800 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 01:08:20 +0800 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat :-)Actually I have solved the problem.I use a drill press vise and a bench vise. I place the drill press vise onthe floor directly under the bench vise, put the rod upright with in thebench vise and the seat in the jaws of the press vise. Sight it all to makesure it's fair making any adjustments and no problem. If I happened across any gremlins capable of moving this set up I'd *need*a shot gun :-) Tony At 10:28 PM 1/17/01 +1100, petermckean wrote:Yeah, Tony You know my theory about why I canot use my scanner, don't you. Same thing with the reelseats! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:45 PMSubject: Re: Crooked reelseat Does anybody out there know why this actually happens?I know I've lined things up perfectly and everything looks fine while youcan do something about it only to discover once it's too latethe seat has moved a few degrees.The strange thing of it is it's so obviously misaligned you can't havemissed it before the glue has cured. Tony At 02:17 PM 1/16/01 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote:Hello Dennis, et al,Having done this several times, I ,too, have thrashed around trying tofinda solution. Don't waste any more of your time. Just cut the damn thingoffand be done with it..JohnZ Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reelonit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I setitdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jan 17 11:20:45 2001 f0HHKie02776 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:24:32 -0800 Subject: Re: wraps f0HHKje02777 Not a guru, but a few things I do which works most of the time is 4-5 coatsof color preserver as you stated ( I typically use the water based flex coat) , with the goal being to put some around where the guide emerges from thewrap. This is where varnish leaks through the majority of the time. Allow 3-4days for the preserver to cure after the final coat. Put a varnish coat onthe wraps, allow 24 hrs., then put another coat of varnish over the guidewraps as well as on the bamboo between the two guide feet wraps. Thishelps form a final good seal over the whole area. Allow 3-4 days or more tocure good. If you dip too soon after applying the varnish coats, then I thinkit's more likely to reactivate the surface enough that you get bleeds. Finally,say a prayer and do your dipping. If you steel wool in between finish coats, then you have to avoid scratchingthe surface of the wraps too far. Any exposed filaments of thread will actas a wick and bleed into the wrap. Some old rods that are being re-finished are especially difficult because theglue seams are often aged and if not sealed and tight all the way to thesurface can act as a highway for the varnish to bleed under and into thewraps. I prefer to no longer use color preserver except on re-finish jobs where youhave to match originality. Often these are lacquer preserved and even morefrustrating. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu "Newmin" 01/17/01 08:29AM >>>Hello Guru'sI have always brush finished my rods with good results. I figured if Idipped them I would get better results. It does make a great finish, but,now i get bleeding on my wraps. I'm using the same silk thread and samecolor(red) the same varnish (helmsman spar urethane) and same colorpreserver that i have always used. I apply 4 coats of color preserver,allowing each coat to dry about 12 hours.I wait 24 hours after final coat ofpreserver is applied and then 4 coats of varnish are then applied to thewraps (24 hrs apart). I usually brush on 3 to 4 coats on the entire rod andhave seldom had a problem. Now that i tried to dip them they all bleedthrough next to the feet of the guides. The only difference is that I amnow using Black guides instead of chrome. I'm not blaming the guides butcould this be the problem? I always rinse my guides in some alchol before iwrap them to try and remove any excess oils. Any suggestions? thanks inadvanceNewmin from robert.warholm@home.com Wed Jan 17 12:39:27 2001 f0HIdQe06834 0700 0700 Subject: VIRUS ALLERT !!!! - DO NOT OPEN EMMANUEL.EXE ATTACHMENTS THE ABOVE EXE FILE IS THE NAVIDAD VIRUS OR A VARIANT THAT WE JUSTGOT HITWITH BEFORE CHRISMTMAS DO NOT OPEN Johan Nygaardsvold has it and it has shown up in three messages so far Careful ya' all Rob W from robert.warholm@sproule.com Wed Jan 17 13:23:56 2001 f0HJNue09300 0700 0700 Subject: !!!! VIRUS ALERT !!! - DO NOT OPEN EMMANUEL.EXE ATTACHMENTS!!! THE ABOVE EXE FILE IS THE NAVIDAD VIRUS OR A VARIANT THAT WE JUSTGOT HITWITH BEFORE CHRISMTMAS DO NOT OPEN Johan Nygaardsvold has it and it has shown up in three messages so far Careful ya' all Rob W from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 17 14:47:15 2001 f0HKlFe14450 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: baby oil I use mineral spirits.Art At 01:30 AM 01/17/2001 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Timothy,Don't know, but I use Olive Oil and compound (an old lutheirs thing) andit comes off fine with denatured alcohol. Bob -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:16 PMSubject: baby oil you gentlemen that use baby oil and rubbing compoundon your rod, with what do you clean off the oil? soapand water? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 17 15:16:42 2001 f0HLGfe16339 Subject: Re: delamination of strips-moisture Jim,I think the isopropyl is 50% water, no? That ought to add plenty, I shouldthink (though I don't use glues that require pre-wetting).Art At 06:08 AM 01/17/2001 -0600, Jim Utzerath wrote:John,No. I have had failures obviously due to other causes (low temperature andinsufficient catalyst). My concern is that I presume that oven tempering afew hours before gluing leaves the cane too dry (I have no means ofmeasuring actual moisture.) Wiping with isopropyl alcohol should removefinger oil and allow the cane to absorb some water, (I think, unless theevaporation of the alcohol actually desiccates the cane).Jim U It should. Have you had any problems with this method?JohnZ Jim Utzerath wrote: John, Do you think that the practice of wiping the finished strips down withisopropyl alcohol (and air drying just before glueing) leaves enoughresidual water to guarantee the 7% moisture content that most UFgluesseemto need? TIA,Jim U ----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:25 PMSubject: Re: delamination of strips I've never heard of L-100 being packed in a tube. It usually comes in5gallonpails.This glue, if not lumpy and thick, is OK. If the glue poured and mixedOK,itwould have to be either of two things: too much cataylst (overbuffering)or, mostprobably, the cane was too dry. The cane has to have 7% or moremoisturein order JohnZ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 17 15:50:27 2001 f0HLoQe18760 Subject: Bevelers Guys,I am getting ready to buy a beveler but I don't know which way to go. I am looking at GWs beveler and JWs beveler. Anyone had experience with either and if so give me some input. GWs does both sides at once and JWs onlydoes one side at a time. I have heard there is stress put in the strips if you do both sides at once. Anyone know for sure about this? Thanks in advance for all replies.Bret from robert.kope@prodigy.net Wed Jan 17 16:44:12 2001 f0HMiBe21493 f0HMhCZ126752 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat John, et al, I have a similar problem that will eventually drive me nuts. I hastilyglued the grip and reelseat on a rod made of scrap strips for personal useto try out my binder and polyurethane glue. In my haste I neglected toremove a twist from the butt section. I glued the reel seat with epoxy(Gudebrod rodbuilders epoxy), while the rod and grip are glued withpolyurethane glue. The reel seat is aligned with the stripper and snake onthe butt section, but the butt section has about a 10 or 15 degree twist init. If I remove the twist at this point, the reel seat will be way off; ifI don't, the twist will annoy me every time I look at the rod. I'veconsidered using heat (and that sounds like it may work) but it occurred tome that I have used acetone to remove epoxy from inside of ferrules thathadto be replaced. Would acetone, or some other solvent, dissolve the epoxywithout affecting the PU? This is a lightweight uplocking reelseat on a 3wtwith a swelled butt, so the blank was turned down to the bore size of thereelseat filler. It was a snug fit so there are probably no voids betweenthe blank and the filler. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Hello Dennis, et al,Having done this several times, I ,too, have thrashed around trying tofinda solution. Don't waste any more of your time. Just cut the damn thing offand be done with it..JohnZ Dennis Haftel wrote: I hate to admit it, but I did it. I epoxied a reel seat onto a rodthat's not exactly in line with where I want the guides to go. I don'tknow HOW this happened because I always line up the seat with a reel onit. I guess it shifted either when I took the reel off or when I set itdown to cure. The mortice has enough slop in it to align the reel withthe proper flat, but it just doesn't look right. Has anyone ever beenable to remove a reelseat without damaging it? I'd like to reuse thisone on the rod. If not, I'll probably just leave it. Any suggestions? TIA, Dennis from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 17 18:18:05 2001 f0I0I4e24762 Subject: Re: Crooked reelseat Okay Folks,I want to change my mind take back my earlier comments. Is thatpossible?It seems to work for SWMBO. I'm with John Zimny, 100%. Heat the metalpartsoff, and go ahead and cut the wood off and be done with it. Fillers are cheap.Not worth taking a chance on ruining the rest of the rod Harry Robert Kope wrote: The reel seat is aligned with the stripper and snake onthe butt section, but the butt section has about a 10 or 15 degree twist init. If I remove the twist at this point, the reel seat will be way off; from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Jan 17 19:13:03 2001 f0I1D2e26376 Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:00:33 -0600 Subject: Re: wraps You just have to bleed color preserver down into the gap between the guideand the rod. I use fairly thin coats, and apply perhaps 10 or more. Afterthe first 5 or 6, I wet sand the wraps until they are dead flat all over.Then one more thin coat of preserver, and then varnish.GMA from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Jan 17 19:38:45 2001 f0I1cie27239 Subject: Re: "A" silk thread. I've been using some of their 3/0 and I gotta tell you that you can get somebad spots - fuzzes where filaments join. Has really torqued my jaw a coupleof times recently. Can't really burn them off as they are more of a clump.Only thing you can do is re-do. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: "A" silk thread. Anglers Workshop in Woodland WA has quite a bit of Japanese silk. Website WWW.anglersworkshop.com phone 360-225-8641. Marty Can anyone give me a source for "A silk. I'm only looking for one color,alight beige. If they have a web site, that would be even better !Thanks,GMA from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Jan 17 19:46:47 2001 f0I1kje28010 Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script yes, definitely a virus - I ran it through Norton. Watch out, it's navidade(sp?) Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Edwards Quadrate Script Emanuel.exe? Looks like that attachmentcould be yet another virus. Anyone know it? Owen Davies from goodaple@tcac.net Wed Jan 17 20:23:57 2001 f0I2Nue29052 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) 0600 Subject: LEATHER HONING WHEELS Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C080C3.DEB425A0 Does anyone have a link to an internet source for 2 inch wide leather =honing wheels 4 inches in diameter or larger? ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C080C3.DEB425A0 Does anyone have a link to an internet = inch wide leather honing wheels 4 inches in diameter or =larger?Thanks in advance, Randall R. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C080C3.DEB425A0-- from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 17 20:35:40 2001 f0I2Zce29411 Subject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script Yeah, I'm going to start sending out e-mail with little attachments that area Para16.exe. It will properly be called the Para16 Worm, and will actexactly as does the Emanuel/Navidad worm. The difference in my little wormwill be that you and your virus program will look, and look, and look, andyou never will find it, but it must be there because it will just keepsending itself out, so as to reinforce the myth that there really is such athing as a Para 16.M-D thanks John and Bob for responding. I didn't open it. Boy that Edwardssubject line had me all excited, too. Boy, if it would have said Para 16taper, I know someone who wouldn't have a working computer right now.Right, M- D?Thanks,Bob At 06:58 PM 1/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:Don't open the attachment!!!!Don't open anything with an EXE suffix!!!!!!! Unless you are absolutelysure that it is safe! John K. Sorry to ask, but what is the attachment? I am lost here.Bob At 11:10 PM 1/16/2001 +0100, Johan Nygaardsvold wrote: from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 17 20:46:19 2001 f0I2k4e29766 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:45:57 +0800 Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:45:44 +0800 Subject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script "and Collecting" You have an insidious mind :-) Tony At 08:24 PM 1/17/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:Yeah, I'm going to start sending out e-mail with little attachments that area Para16.exe. It will properly be called the Para16 Worm, and will actexactly as does the Emanuel/Navidad worm. The difference in my littlewormwill be that you and your virus program will look, and look, and look, andyou never will find it, but it must be there because it will just keepsending itself out, so as to reinforce the myth that there really is such athing as a Para 16.M-D thanks John and Bob for responding. I didn't open it. Boy that Edwardssubject line had me all excited, too. Boy, if it would have said Para 16taper, I know someone who wouldn't have a working computer right now.Right, M- D?Thanks,Bob At 06:58 PM 1/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:Don't open the attachment!!!!Don't open anything with an EXE suffix!!!!!!! Unless you are absolutelysure that it is safe! John K. Sorry to ask, but what is the attachment? I am lost here.Bob At 11:10 PM 1/16/2001 +0100, Johan Nygaardsvold wrote: /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you love a thing let it go,If it returns it's yours,If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it. /**************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Wed Jan 17 20:49:15 2001 f0I2nEe29983 Subject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script M-D,Why don't you write yourself one that'll get into hard-drives and rootaround until it finds a "Para-16" file? Wouldn't that meet several of yourneeds? Getting tapers and doing mayhem!!!!!Yeah!Huh? Huh?Art At 08:24 PM 01/17/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:Yeah, I'm going to start sending out e-mail with little attachments that area Para16.exe. It will properly be called the Para16 Worm, and will actexactly as does the Emanuel/Navidad worm. The difference in my littlewormwill be that you and your virus program will look, and look, and look, andyou never will find it, but it must be there because it will just keepsending itself out, so as to reinforce the myth that there really is such athing as a Para 16.M-D thanks John and Bob for responding. I didn't open it. Boy that Edwardssubject line had me all excited, too. Boy, if it would have said Para 16taper, I know someone who wouldn't have a working computer right now.Right, M- D?Thanks,Bob At 06:58 PM 1/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:Don't open the attachment!!!!Don't open anything with an EXE suffix!!!!!!! Unless you are absolutelysure that it is safe! John K. Sorry to ask, but what is the attachment? I am lost here.Bob At 11:10 PM 1/16/2001 +0100, Johan Nygaardsvold wrote: from stewart4@zbzoom.net Wed Jan 17 22:57:28 2001 f0I4vRe03333 (24.154.23.138) Subject: Bevellers and Honing Wheels This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C080E1.303747A0 Bret,This past weekend I drove out to the Golden Witch shop and got to =see the Bellinger beveller in action. It is impressive. In fact, if I =hadn't wrecked my truck on the way home I would be ordering one now. I =have no experience with the JW. Randall,I believe Garrett Wade carries leather honing wheels. My memory is =a bit fuzzy right now after 8 hours in the salt mines. Just my two cents worth. No financial =inter......blahbedy...blahbedy...blah. Sean ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C080E1.303747A0 Bret, = JW. Randall, the salt mines. inter......blahbedy...blahbedy...blah. Sean ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C080E1.303747A0-- from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 17 23:06:58 2001 f0I56ve03597 Subject: Re: Fwd: Edwards Quadrate Script Great idea Art. In addition to what I have already conceived, what it willnow do is to create a Para 16 file, so that the worm can then find itself,replicate, and send even more of its mythical self out to do mayhem. All thewhile as you look for files nothing will show up on your hard-drive except"File Not Found".Thanks for the idea. It won't be long now. }8^0>M-D M-D,Why don't you write yourself one that'll get into hard-drives and rootaround until it finds a "Para-16" file? Wouldn't that meet several of yourneeds?Getting tapers and doing mayhem!!!!!Yeah!Huh? Huh?Art At 08:24 PM 01/17/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:Yeah, I'm going to start sending out e-mail with little attachments thatarea Para16.exe. It will properly be called the Para16 Worm, and will actexactly as does the Emanuel/Navidad worm. The difference in my littlewormwill be that you and your virus program will look, and look, and look,andyou never will find it, but it must be there because it will just keepsending itself out, so as to reinforce the myth that there really is suchathing as a Para 16.M-D thanks John and Bob for responding. I didn't open it. Boy that Edwardssubject line had me all excited, too. Boy, if it would have said Para16taper, I know someone who wouldn't have a working computer right now.Right, M- D?Thanks,Bob At 06:58 PM 1/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:Don't open the attachment!!!!Don't open anything with an EXE suffix!!!!!!! Unless you areabsolutelysure that it is safe! John K. Sorry to ask, but what is the attachment? I am lost here.Bob At 11:10 PM 1/16/2001 +0100, Johan Nygaardsvold wrote: from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu Jan 18 02:01:39 2001 f0I81ce06146 fwd02.sul.t-online.com Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:04:29 +0100 Subject: Re: Bevelers Hi Bret, I'm using the Bellinger Rough Out Beveler, that I bought from Russ ofGolden witch (no financial interest, bla, bla , bla)and it's reallydoing a great job, not to mention the time you can save. I don't knowanything about the stress you've mentioned. A fellow rodmaker andlistmember from Switzerland (Stefan Grau, angelruten@smile.ch) has beenusing the same beveler for quite some time, maybe you should contact himabout the stress you were talking about. In my opinion this great littletool is worth every penny I spent on it. Regards Ralf from Germany Grhghlndr@aol.com schrieb: Guys,I am getting ready to buy a beveler but I don't know which way to go. I amlooking at GWs beveler and JWs beveler. Anyone had experience with eitherand if so give me some input. GWs does both sides at once and JWs onlydoesone side at a time. I have heard there is stress put in the strips if you doboth sides at once. Anyone know for sure about this? Thanks in advanceforall replies.Bret