Subject: Re: Mass lack of appeal have to agree. timothy--- Tony Young wrote:Hey that's a good one tezza obviously public(English) bottom jokes are rightup your alley as it were.This isn't a flame, just a request. Pretty much everybody who's been on this list becomedesensitized in time toyour comments and not a few have fired a broadsideback before thishappens, meincluded. I regretted it in the end because it didno good except cause you tobecome helpful for a change just before you left thelist last time which Iguess was a response to my mentioning I'd never seenyou help in aconstructiveway on the list and you wanted to spite me. Possiblynot but the negative sideof you was muzzled for a short time but seems tohave been released again thistime round. I wrote privately to you in this week passed butdon't know if you read themessage, in any case I wrote how I'm glad to see youback on the list which Iwas and still am which if you think about it iswierd.I enjoy our little snipes as much as you obviouslydo but I honestly wishyou'dresist the temptation of hitting below the belt.Name calling andquestioning aperson's integrity etc is something best left in theplayground of 5 yearolds. It's mean spirited and really uncalled for. I oncewrote things to you which Iwish I didn't thinking you could take as good as yougive but you tookoffence,badly it seemed so it's not like you don't know whatit's like when youpick ona newbie or person who is not looking for this kindof treatment on what forthe vastly greater part is a very friendly list. If you really are on the list for the good of thecraft and "want people tothink for themselves" at least be as tolerant ofpeople as we are of you. Somepositive messages wouldn't be a bad thing on the oddoccasion too.If all you're doing is basically stirring up anant's nest for fun, I wishyou'd bugger off again. Tony At 08:43 AM 1/5/01 -0500, T. Ackland wrote: An Australian comedian? now thats a first petermckean wrote: Dear Listmembers I must say I am not at allsure where this thread isgoing; neither am I at all certain that I care! Iam certainly not going tochange my modus operandi because of anythingAckland tells me; and I amquite sure that what I think does not interesthim in any way at all.Acklandthinks that we are "vindictive little punks" Ithink he is a whingeing Pom,and a wanker, with a very significant problemwith his self esteem! I canonly hope that he makes a full and speedyrecovery from his haemorrhoidsurgery! And I thought I was misusing bandwidthtalking about beer !Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallidfaces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush andnervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stuntedforms and weedy, time to waste. A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jan 5 11:05:59 2001 f05H5vI18713 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 01:05:55 +0800 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 01:05:54 +0800 Subject: Re: Mass lack of appeal petermckean ,"'RODMAKERS'" Tony,lists are all about having a little fun, it is not the real world, no onegetshurt but those that take themselves too seriously. There is absolutely noneed for"experts" like yourself to to be standing by at all hours dishing out largehelpings of advice, there is a search engine for newbies to use that goway backto day one of rodmakers and it has all rehashed a thousand times. I guess, but I'm not standing by all hrs just to dish out advise, some ofthe work I do is online so it's easier and faster to do at night when thereis less traffic. Email arrives and if I have something to say I do. I dothink you take making rods pretty seriously in truth else how to explainthe time and money plowed into an ultimately lost cause with your hands offmill? As it happens I actually do know some of this stuff because much of isn'tstrictly specific to bamboo rods.I'm a touch typist and don't spell check so the replys only take but amoment. It also takes my mind away from what I supposed to be doing whichis a lot more tedious. It's more stimulating than a coffee break anddoesn't affect my sleep.So far as being "expert" is concerned I take that with the grain of saltthat it's intended. Don't know what's normal, a lot of test messages usually indicates acertain stagnation which never happens when you're visiting.I honestly do wish you'd stay on the list but tone things down a bit and ifnot actually help at least have some plain human respect for for yourplaymates and leave other's bucket and spade alone. Tony I shall be back at work on Moday, off the list and back to normal. What isnormal I hopeit was not too much of a chore to delete the crap?800 not bad, not bad at all, see ya, eh?Terry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 5 11:38:34 2001 f05HcXI20252 Subject: Re: Rod Set Tony Try this. if you have a band saw (it's just faster) saw across thenodes in little thin sections and look at the power fiber's. I wasalways of the opinion that the fibers wandered around through thenodes.. to my surprise what i have found on several culms is all thathappens at the nodes is the power fibers seem to spread a little towardthe pith, the dam in this case. you can also see, if you do largersection, that around the node there seems to be small areas where thepith leaks toward the surface, like an inverted triangle, probablybamboo's way of compensating for the increased diameter at the nodewithout growing new fibers. this cross-sectional view was much differentthan i had expected by always viewing the node from the side whileplanning. i do not have a microscope so i don't know what the littleknarles of lignin are all about. they don't seem to affect the directionof the fibers. the little spikes of pith may be responsible for thewandering at the nodes. Mike will probable ban me from the list for this but.. Whenever Terrance chooses to re-join the list he causes a lot ofdisruption. I think this is purposeful and his only purpose. He and thegink ARE the same person. self aggrandizement by way of self promotingnoise..He indeed has nothing to offer this list because he won't offeranything but noise. I have noted that as soon as he starts his bs i getseveral e-mails (misdirected) on how to resign.the problem is newbee's get the impression that this is the normal toneand aren't very impressed. I as well as others that sink to his level doharm to ourselves and the list..Terry believes that this list shouldn't exist- that everyone shouldlearn it all on there own, or contact him personally for thedissemination of his considerable knowledge. In fact, he has stated thatthe purpose of such lists is for him to float to the top.Personally i agree with him, this is not rocket science, but it is aninteresting craft, with many approaches. If we are not willing to share(most of you are) our different perspectives without rancor, what is thepoint.At this point, with several years of terry under our belts, it must beobvious that terry should find a PROFESSIONAL list somewhere, and leaveus to the self-delusion that we are trying to help OTHERS and learn moreourselves.If the conversations that derived from his appearance were beneficial icould condone his style,but it is apparent to me that his style ishurtful and i'm not impressed.I'm sorry Harry, Reed, and others of a forgiving nature, but i'm oldenough that i have seen this prototype before and although successful atachieving their own ends, serve no useful purpose to me except that offertilizer. no matter how intellectual your approaches are to get auseful extraction from him, i have seen nothing spew forth butchallenges (to which he is not the least interested in the answer) andthe aforementioned guano I do now understand why Wayne resigned a few years ago. enough is enough I do NOT appolgise, in fact, I wish i had Reed's gift and could be moreforceful regards jerry from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 11:45:19 2001 f05HjII20672 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 5 Jan 2001 12:45:05 -0500 Subject: Impregnation from speed) of using some type of pressure/vacuum chamber over justlettingthe blanks sit in the impregnation fluid? Orvis's impregnation patentmentions they used to just leave the blanks in a warm open bath for a weekor so. Thanks in advance, Richard from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Jan 5 12:02:49 2001 f05I2nI21396 Subject: Re: Rod Set One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement this summer isto do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundle intertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigious numbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water and foodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cells formingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick-walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin- walled cells become moreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culm tothe other?The difficulty of course will be attempting to infiltrate the fiber bundleswith paraffin so as to be able to slice them on the microtome. A section offresh, green living (or just freshly cut) bamboo would be necessary,preferably from near the growing tip. This would be the easiest tissue topreserve and fix for proper study, and the tissue will not have become so"woody".Jerry Snider At 09:38 AM 01/05/2001 -0800, Jerry Foster wrote:Tony Try this. if you have a band saw (it's just faster) saw across thenodes in little thin sections and look at the power fiber's. I wasalways of the opinion that the fibers wandered around through thenodes.. to my surprise what i have found on several culms is all thathappens at the nodes is the power fibers seem to spread a little towardthe pith, the dam in this case. you can also see, if you do largersection, that around the node there seems to be small areas where thepith leaks toward the surface, like an inverted triangle, probablybamboo's way of compensating for the increased diameter at the nodewithout growing new fibers. this cross-sectional view was much differentthan i had expected by always viewing the node from the side whileplanning. i do not have a microscope so i don't know what the littleknarles of lignin are all about. they don't seem to affect the directionof the fibers. the little spikes of pith may be responsible for thewandering at the nodes. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 5 12:14:57 2001 f05IEvI23672 Subject: Re: Rod Set Hi Jer wow. that's the correct way to do it of course. i appolgize for my crudetechnique, i'd do it again and post the results, but my scanner isbroken.await your results regards jerry from owen@davies.mv.com Fri Jan 5 12:45:42 2001 f05IjfI24616 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine Illustrating his reasoning with some useful drawings, David W. Smith wrote: I, too, was working my was through his point and, after drawing up theattached diagram, believe Neuner is correct in his statements on thedifferencein the orientation of the fibers between a one-sided milling machine and atwo-sided (hand-planed or Morgan-milled) beveled strip. The clearest explanation yet, for which many thanks. Does it seem to anyone else that this applies only for rough bevelingon a one- sided milling machine? If the rough beveler produces anisosceles triangle, rather than an approximate right triangle, thefinish beveler produces a spline indistinguishable from one made only smaller -- whether it cuts from one side or from both. Also, the problem -- if it really is a problem -- with a one-sided roughbeveler can be minimized by doing the final planing from the side ofthe triangular spline next to the more-or-less-right angle, rather than from the hypotenuse; that is, from the right-hand side of the spline inthe right-hand drawing. When your spline is done, the angles betweenthe enamel and the two sides should be equal. Or so it seems to me. In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. Of course, I haven't yet built my first rod, so take this for what it'sworth. Owen Davies from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 13:01:43 2001 f05J1hI25119 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Le'ts say a plane is used to make four passes on one side and thenfour passes on the other for a total of .020 removed from each side (.005with each pass). (I know, some builders take one pass and flip, otherstwo...) How does the alignment of the power fibers then differ if you take a .010pass with a router on one side and then a .010 pass on the other side? I'm missing something here. Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 13:05:14 2001 f05J5EI25322 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine OOPS. I meant to say "for a total of .010 removed from each side.." in theparagraph below. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 2:00 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Le'ts say a plane is used to make four passes on oneside and thenfour passes on the other for a total of .020 removed fromeach side (.005with each pass). (I know, some builders take one pass and flip, otherstwo...) How does the alignment of the power fibers then differ if youtake a .010pass with a router on one side and then a .010 pass on the other side? I'm missing something here. Richard from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 13:10:35 2001 f05JAZI25669 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:10:29 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: TBFR Stuart,I was wondering the same thing. I subscribed almost 3 years agonow and still never received one magazine. I ended up buying them here inNova Scotia. I've talked to Mark numerous times and finally asked for mymoney back about 5 months ago and he said that he would send it off rightaway.When I returned home just before Christmas I found that he stillhadn't sent the money. I've sent a couple of e mails since that were neveranswered. At $60 Canadian for 1 year subscription, I have almost paid fortwo subscriptions in phone calls.Mark seems like a decent guy and he put out one hell of a magazine but Ifind his organizational skills a little lacking.I think I will call him again this afternoon! When I get of the phone from that I'm going to phone the loser in Colorado that owes me $130Canadian for the Bamboo book I bought on E bay and never received. Bet henever figured I would find his home phone number and work number, ahh thewonders of the internet! Should be an interesting afternoon!Shawn stuart moultrie wrote: Goodmorning, Is the Bamboo Fly Rod magazine up and running again? Sorry for dragging this old topic up again, I keep seeing mentions ofit on various sites and the BFR site looks as though it is being updatedbut I never seem to have actually had an answer to my requests forsubscription. Thankyou Stuart from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 13:13:53 2001 f05JDqI25945 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:13:47 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine I must be missing it too Richard! To me a pass is a pass if you are doingalternating sides it should be the same as hand planing (only faster). Icould see if you were using a milling wheel that does both sides at once. Shawn Richard Nantel wrote: In short, this may be a problem in theory, but I'm not sure it isone in practice. I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Le'ts say a plane is used to make four passes on one side and thenfour passes on the other for a total of .020 removed from each side (.005with each pass). (I know, some builders take one pass and flip, otherstwo...) How does the alignment of the power fibers then differ if you take a .010pass with a router on one side and then a .010 pass on the other side? I'm missing something here. Richard from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Jan 5 13:14:44 2001 f05JEhI26094 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:14:33 +0000 Subject: Re: TBFR Perhaps Bob Malucci can advise whats happening......Power Fibers makesrefernce to them? Shawn Pineo wrote: Stuart,I was wondering the same thing. I subscribed almost 3 years agonow and still never received one magazine. I ended up buying them here inNova Scotia. I've talked to Mark numerous times and finally asked for mymoney back about 5 months ago and he said that he would send it off rightaway.When I returned home just before Christmas I found that he stillhadn't sent the money. I've sent a couple of e mails since that were neveranswered. At $60 Canadian for 1 year subscription, I have almost paid fortwo subscriptions in phone calls.Mark seems like a decent guy and he put out one hell of a magazine but Ifind his organizational skills a little lacking.I think I will call him again this afternoon! When I get of the phone from that I'm going to phone the loser in Colorado that owes me $130Canadian for the Bamboo book I bought on E bay and never received. Bet henever figured I would find his home phone number and work number, ahhthewonders of the internet! Should be an interesting afternoon!Shawn stuart moultrie wrote: Goodmorning, Is the Bamboo Fly Rod magazine up and running again? Sorry for dragging this old topic up again, I keep seeing mentions ofit on various sites and the BFR site looks as though it is being updatedbut I never seem to have actually had an answer to my requests forsubscription. Thankyou Stuart from CALucker@aol.com Fri Jan 5 13:44:39 2001 f05JicI27405 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In a message dated 1/5/01 7:42:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I guess this is the explanation why guys who taper one side of a strip, such as EC Powell, Walton Powell, Max Yerxa, Tony Maslan, and Clem LaVoy,were/are never able to make any rods. Of course I am joking. Tapering one side of a rough sixty is fine. Look at the rods of the makers noted above. There are no greater number of fibers ranout on an EC Powell rod than one that has strips tapered on both sides, it's just that they stop on one side of the taper, rather than both. If you are that afraid of runout, I would suggest you make untapered rods.Not trying to be mean spirited, just tired of folks not believing anything but commonly held misconceptions. And, I am trying to defend the honor ofEC Powell sticks. The author of the Powerfibers article was pointing to a conclusion that EC Powells and similar rods were not made the right way. Regarding all the arguing about milling machines, I think it would be helpful getting into heated discussions about the pros and cons of mills. CNCbamboo mills may not be the most fun to operate, but they sure do good work. Chris Lucker from owen@davies.mv.com Fri Jan 5 14:04:41 2001 f05K4eI28370 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine Richard Nantel reasonably said: I still fail to see how it is different to remove a pass of cane fromalternating sides of a strip using a router beveller instead of a handplane. Me, too. My impression was that the article dealt with machinesremoving all of the cane from one side of the strip, in one ormore passes, rather than from both sides. It points out a possibleproblem, but one that seems pretty easy to avoid. Owen Davies from briansr@point-net.com Fri Jan 5 15:25:58 2001 f05LPvI01294 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:25:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine Thank's Chris Andy Barr ,here in Montreal used a Milling/beveller devise to makepentas.Even to final "planing".Most of his rods today are as true as themilling machine spat them out !!Ahhhh!!!!!!! the very thought of Terry and AB on Rodmakers !!!!!! LOL!!!!!!! A quadrouple broadside from HMS Curmujin !!!!!Cheers Brian---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Was Rod Set is now Milling Article in Powerfibers eZine In a message dated 1/5/01 7:42:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: one pass will skew the angle of the fibers, making them run off the sidesrather than go straight along the strip. I'm still a week or so away from trying out my Millward-style bevellerbutwould suspect that taking an entire side down to size in one pass willnotbe possible without getting some rather chewed up strips. >> I guess this is the explanation why guys who taper one side of a strip,suchas EC Powell, Walton Powell, Max Yerxa, Tony Maslan, and Clem LaVoy,were/arenever able to make any rods. Of course I am joking. Tapering one side of a rough sixty is fine. Look at the rods of themakersnoted above. There are no greater number of fibers ranout on an ECPowellrod than one that has strips tapered on both sides, it's just that theystopon one side of the taper, rather than both. If you are that afraid of runout, I would suggest you make untapered rods.Not trying to be mean spirited, just tired of folks not believing anythingbut commonly held misconceptions. And, I am trying to defend the honorofECPowell sticks. The author of the Powerfibers article was pointing to aconclusion that EC Powells and similar rods were not made the right way. Regarding all the arguing about milling machines, I think it would behelpful beforegetting into heated discussions about the pros and cons of mills. CNCbamboomills may not be the most fun to operate, but they sure do good work. Chris Lucker from across@www.downandacross.com Fri Jan 5 17:34:15 2001 f05NYDI04449 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:31:42 -0500 Subject: Re: TBFR No idea. Sorry. Wish I could help, but I don't know anything about Mark's business except that the banner exchange has brought me many hits. Hissite seems very active.Best regards,Bob M. At 07:13 PM 1/5/2001 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:Perhaps Bob Malucci can advise whats happening......Power Fibers makesrefernce to them? Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jan 5 17:51:14 2001 f05NpDI04799 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Bastard Terry, You Terry being an artist wannabe are making works of art. Imake "fish poles". It is my experience that how the blank comes out ofthe binder with the glue "wet" determines if the rod will be setresistant. But "what do I know". Best, Marty Marty,this list is not about making fishing poles, it is about creating exquisiteworks of art to immortalize the makers.It is my experience that if you can straighten a rod with mild heat thenthere is a problem and the set will keep returning. I came to thisconclusion in my workshop, not by sitting in front of a screen marty wrote: Hi all, This list is begining to read like a mean spirited lurecollectors list. The fact is that all fly rods are made to cast a lineand catch fish. It does not matter if the taper is taken every 1" or 10"or if made on a form or beveller as long as it casts a line well enoughto present a fly ( or in Dennis H. friend Andy's case a kernel ofcorn). I also do not think it's a big deal to once or twice a yearheat straighten a rod set from use. This can be done in 2 min. over aheat gun and no, you do not have to heat the rod up to the varnishmelting point as Terry does. He needs some practice.Now that said when Terry markets a Leonard or Payne style beveller for$1500 I will be the first in line to purchase one. Until then, I willcontinue haplessly planing away. Marty from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri Jan 5 18:48:13 2001 f060mCI05516 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 Subject: Re: TBFR snipped> Hissite seems very active. probably all the people trying to figure out how to get the magazine they paid for !! Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from cadams46@juno.com Fri Jan 5 19:05:10 2001 f06159I05910 20:04:35 EST Subject: Milling Machine With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machines are? I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the only booksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? Thanks Sincerely,C.R. Adams from across@www.downandacross.com Fri Jan 5 19:40:38 2001 f061ebI06838 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:38:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Milling Machine The Dickerson book has a good look at his mill. The Golden Witch site has pictures of Bellinger's mill that is about the same thing. I have Keane, Campbell, and a few other books, but none really give you a good look at any makers mill if I recall correctly. Have you seen the mill in The Best of the Planing Form? That's do-able,Best regards,Bob At 06:06 PM 1/5/2001 -0700, you wrote:With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machines are?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the only booksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jan 5 19:50:57 2001 f061ouI07400 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Milling Machine any makers mill if I recall correctly. Have you seen the millin The Bestof the Planing Form? That's do-able, That's the one I'm working on. I'll provide reviews when finished andtested. Richard from across@www.downandacross.com Fri Jan 5 20:01:57 2001 f0621uI07894 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:58:38 -0500 Subject: Re: TBFR, now ad swaps Dear List:I would like you all to know that I have received several messages off list regarding TBFR, and I respect your grievances with them. My arrangements with TBFR have been fulfilled from my end, and I will seriously consider what relationships (if any) to have with him in the future when my own readership/friends have such compelling opinions about this. But.... As far as this thread goes, I regret having been dragged into the middle of an issue that isn't really my business. I hope you can respect that. Anyone on the list who knows or has corresponded with me knows that I have always tried to be fair with everyone I deal with. I have no ulterior motives, and believe me, no one is getting rich off Power Fibers. (although TA thinks I am selling Wayne's book through Amazon.com or whatever that jab was allabout!) I realize that by even responding to this thread, I am prolonging this negative publicity, but I don't want anyone thinking of me as one who sleeps with the enemy either. My having any relationship with Mark, who has actually done everything for me that he has promised, doesn't mean that your grievances are not legitimate. It is just that your relationships with his magazine are your business and not mine. Yeah, if I had subscribed and not received anything, you bet I would be pissed too. But I didn't, and unfortunately, I never thought twice about it when I was approached by TBFR to swap ads. I hope, as you do, that I see that Power Fibers ad someday in print, and that a new issue of TBFR comes out for all of us to enjoy. I hope this comes out the way I intended it to, respectfully and sympathetically. I'll shut up now.... Best regards,Bob Maulucci At 05:42 PM 1/5/2001 -0700, Jim Flinchbaugh wrote:snipped>Hissiteseems very active. probably all the people trying to figure out how to get the magazinethey paid for !!Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 20:32:59 2001 f062WwI09264 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:32:53 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: TBFR, now ad swaps Bob,sorry you were dragged into the middle of this. I meant no harm to Markorhis magazine, only responding to a question about the BFRM and waswondering ifanyone else had contact as my e mails go unanswered and I could get noanswer atthe phone # listed on the web page.I think that back awhile ago you had mentioned being in contact withMark,perhaps that is why your name was mentioned.Shawn Bob Maulucci wrote: Dear List:I would like you all to know that I have received several messages offlist regarding TBFR, and I respect your grievances with them. Myarrangements with TBFR have been fulfilled from my end, and I willseriously consider what relationships (if any) to have with him in thefuture when my own readership/friends have such compelling opinionsaboutthis. But.... As far as this thread goes, I regret having been dragged into the middle ofan issue that isn't really my business. I hope you can respect that. Anyoneon the list who knows or has corresponded with me knows that I havealwaystried to be fair with everyone I deal with. I have no ulterior motives, andbelieve me, no one is getting rich off Power Fibers. (although TA thinks Iam selling Wayne's book through Amazon.com or whatever that jab was allabout!) I realize that by even responding to this thread, I am prolonging thisnegative publicity, but I don't want anyone thinking of me as one whosleeps with the enemy either. My having any relationship with Mark, whohas actually done everything for me that he has promised, doesn't meanthatyour grievances are not legitimate. It is just that your relationships withhis magazine are your business and not mine. Yeah, if I had subscribed andnot received anything, you bet I would be pissed too. But I didn't, andunfortunately, I never thought twice about it when I was approached byTBFRto swap ads. I hope, as you do, that I see that Power Fibers ad someday inprint, and that a new issue of TBFR comes out for all of us to enjoy. I hope this comes out the way I intended it to, respectfully andsympathetically. I'll shut up now.... Best regards,Bob Maulucci At 05:42 PM 1/5/2001 -0700, Jim Flinchbaugh wrote:snipped>Hissiteseems very active. probably all the people trying to figure out how to get the magazinethey paid for !!Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 5 20:35:51 2001 f062ZpI09607 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:35:46 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Milling Machine I am working on one similar to the one on Chris Bogart's site made by (Ibelieve) Al Medved. It is about one of the simplest ones I have seen and usesa router. Shawn cadams46@juno.com wrote: With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machinesare?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the only booksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 5 20:59:52 2001 f062xpI10493 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk Lines Came today Thanks for all you effort Bob, well appreciated. Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Guys:I got the 9 DT4s today, enough for everyone waiting (even me!) I will getthem out tonight at the 24/7 USPS. Still no word on other DT sizes or WFlines.Best regards,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular716- 836-2229 faxbob@downandacross.com from timklein@uswest.net Fri Jan 5 21:07:09 2001 f06378I11067 (63.225.240.148) Subject: Re: Straightening blank near butt Michael Roberts wrote: Since there has been a bit of interest in local weather on thelist lately, I thought some of the gang might be interested in what it'slike down-under in West Oz at the moment: Sky, cloudlessAir temp. 90 degrees FBeach sand, brilliant whiteSea water, crystal clearBeer, icy cold Who was that guy that coined the phrase, "Just another lousy day inParadise". : ) Off to the beach now Cruel bastard! ---Tim from flatsfishr@home.com Fri Jan 5 21:07:19 2001 f0637JI11077 Subject: content of messages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C07764.1091CF00 Sirs, I joined this list under the impression that it was to do with =the subject of the construction and the equipment for split bamboo fly =rods. To this point I must say I am dissappointed in the constant =zinging being done between certain people, the references used to =describe others and the lack of actual usable information (without =sifting through the constant drivel of the few) . According to the =e-mail I received when I joined it states: "This is a good natured list. =Strong language, spam and flaming are not welcome. Repeat offenders will =be removed from list without warning. Try to keep your posts relevant to =the subject of rodmaking. We all wander from time to time, but please = I am not suggesting a lack of fun on the list, but isn't the main =point of this to help those who need it and to discuss rod making =matters. To suggest I do not disagree with others and tell them so in =strong langage is wrong, but I would not do it in a public forum. I will =stick it out for a while and see if things change if not I regret I will =remove myself from the list and not recommend anyone else I know join =it. To those who post proper questions and answers I appologize for my =frankness here, but it's gotten to the point where I had to say =something. Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C07764.1091CF00 Sirs, I joined this list under the impression = was to do with the subject of the construction and the equipment for = bamboo fly rods. To this point I must say I am dissappointed in the = zinging being done between certain people, the references used to = others and the lack of actual usable information (without sifting = e-mail I received when I joined it states: "This is a good natured = Strong language, spam and flaming are not welcome. Repeat offenders = removed from list without warning. Try to keep your posts relevant = subject of rodmaking. We all wander from time to time, but please = to a minimum." I am not suggesting a lack of fun on the list, = the main point of this to help those who need it and to discuss rod = in strong langage is wrong, but I would not do it in a public forum. I = stick it out for a while and see if things change if not I regret I = remove myself from the list and not recommend anyone else I know join = those who post proper questions and answers I appologize for my = here, but it's gotten to the point where I had to say = hopefully Keith Weeks. ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C07764.1091CF00-- from timklein@uswest.net Fri Jan 5 21:08:47 2001 f0638jI11401 (63.225.240.148) Subject: Re: Straightening blank near butt Tony Young wrote: Mike, you forgot to mention there are another 4 months of this before itgets nice ;-) Ditto... ---Tim from goodaple@tcac.net Fri Jan 5 21:09:19 2001 f0639II11528 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 license1dc0b39e31881b14e43eebad2dae5270) Subject: Re: Milling Machine Organization: Shawn, I made one of these types and I use it regularly. I modified mine totake a metal instead of acrylic front guard plate because the pressure ofthe hold downs was too much for the acrylic and kept busting. Overall I likemine very much. My thanks to the designer and to Chris for posting it to hiswebsite. The design was a very nice gift to fellow rodmakers. Thanks againand good luck with yours Shawn. Randall R. Gregory ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Milling Machine I am working on one similar to the one on Chris Bogart's site made by (Ibelieve) Al Medved. It is about one of the simplest ones I have seen andusesa router. Shawn cadams46@juno.com wrote: With all this talk of various machinery and people building them has gotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machinesare?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at building amachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the onlybooksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine orbeveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from ctn45555@centurytel.net Fri Jan 5 21:11:48 2001 f063BmI11980 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Taper Advice I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper wind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless (see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the large drop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seems like demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very much enjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan 5 22:22:01 2001 f064M0I13383 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:21:53 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, (or should I say, "Cuz")You could do a lot worse than translating Wayne Cattanach's "Sir D"taper into a 5 weight. Or dropping a Payne 101 down to 7 feet.If you need help fooling around with the tapers, let me know. Harry Boyd Chad Boyd wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan 5 22:31:35 2001 f064VYI13733 Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:32:47 -0600 Subject: Re: content of messages Keith, I can understand your concerns, but honestly, you just joined at aninopportune time. Seems that too much vacation time always gives birthto many such diatribes as well as good natured 'non-rodbuilding' topics(I seem to recall a long bit of a thread regarding grits)! Staytuned. Better yet, spend some serious time perusing the archives.Much of the list discussion is driven by the latest news in someone'sexperimentations (think of adhesives, bamboo ferrules, finishingtechniques, etc.) and can become quite esoteric for the uninitiated. Weseem to keep on topic best when newcomers ask basic questions. Don't beshy... ask away. If you are reluctant to get into the fray, search thearchives. Nearly every newbie question has been addressed and there isso much information in the archives that this resource is trulypriceless. But, I suggest that you do become involved in discussions.Otherwise, when you attend a rodmaker's gathering, how will we be ableto have misguided perceptions of who you really are? That would beunfair advantage since we show our %& every so often. Rick Crenshaw KeithW wrote: Sirs, I joined this list under the impression that it wasto do with the subject of the construction and the equipment dissappointed in the constant zinging being done betweencertain people, the references used to describe others andthe lack of actual usable information (without siftingthrough the constant drivel of the few) . According tothe e- mail I received when I joined it states: "This is agood natured list. Strong language, spam and flaming are notwelcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from list withoutwarning. Try to keep your posts relevant to the subject ofrodmaking. We all wander from time to time, but please keepit to a minimum."I am not suggesting a lack of fun on thelist, but isn't the main point of this to help those whoneed it and to discuss rod making matters. To suggest I donot disagree with others and tell them so in strong langageis wrong, but I would not do it in a public forum. I willstick it out for a while and see if things change if not Iregret I will remove myself from the list and not recommendanyone else I know join it. To those who post properquestions and answers I appologize for my frankness here,but it's gotten to the point where I had to say something.Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. from channer1@rmi.net Fri Jan 5 22:35:50 2001 f064ZnI13988 Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe that each rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose he used randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper wind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless (see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the large drop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seems like demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very much enjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from flatsfishr@home.com Fri Jan 5 23:02:41 2001 f0652eI14566 ;Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:02:17 -0800 Subject: Re: content of messages Harry I joined on Dec 22,2000, after finally becoming a computer user willstick with it. Have been around rodmakers for a long time was just sosurprised at the conversations over the last while. Must say the e-mails Ihave received so far show positively most of the group seem like fine guys,but in every group a few can spoil the look of the whole. Thanks for thehelp Keith Weeks. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: content of messages Keith,May I ask when you joined the list? The reason for thequestion is that things have been unusually acrimoniousaround here lately. I've been a part of the list for about5 years, and can promise you that about 80% of the timethings aren't so ugly. About once or twice a year we havethese flair- ups, and within a few days or weeks things areback to normal.I'm well aware of the note you received when you joinedthe list. In fact, I wrote it. -- a little over three yearsago, after another one of these flair ups -- But the factis that the list is not a public forum. It issemi-private. To participate requires that one join. Andthose of us who have joined, have come to know and care foreach other over the years. Family feuds can be the ugliestfights. What you are currently seeing is just that, a feudamong a diverse group of folks, many of whom considerthemselves almost family.Though I have no "official" status as an owner oroperator of the list, I am one of the more prolificposters. Through the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, I've metover 100 different rodmakers and list members in person.Almost without exception, they are wonderful people, thekind you would enjoy spending time fishing with. Even Terryis a nicer guy in person than he appears on this list.You have made the right decision to stick with us for awhile. By this time next week I think you will see thatthings are much more friendly and helpful.I'm sorry you have gotten a bad impression, and if I cando anything to help you in rod making, just let me know. Harry Boyd KeithW wrote: Sirs, I joined this list under the impressionthat it was to do with the subject of theconstruction and the equipment for split bamboofly rods. To this point I must say I amdissappointed in the constant zinging being donebetween certain people, the references used todescribe others and the lack of actual usableinformation (without sifting through theconstant drivel of the few) . According tothe e-mail I received when I joined it states:"This is a good natured list. Strong language,spam and flaming are not welcome. Repeatoffenders will be removed from list withoutwarning. Try to keep your posts relevant to thesubject of rodmaking. We all wander from time totime, but please keep it to a minimum."I am notsuggesting a lack of fun on the list, but isn'tthe main point of this to help those who need itand to discuss rod making matters. To suggest Ido not disagree with others and tell them so instrong langage is wrong, but I would not do itin a public forum. I will stick it out for awhile and see if things change if not I regret Iwill remove myself from the list and notrecommend anyone else I know join it. To thosewho post proper questions and answers Iappologize for my frankness here, but it'sgotten to the point where I had to saysomething. Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jan 6 04:30:37 2001 f06AUZI18540 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line. The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by two thus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z" style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe that each rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose he usedrandomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking for some taper wind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless (see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the large drop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seems like demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very much enjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan 6 05:57:04 2001 f06Bv2I19493 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:56:57 +0800 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:56:55 +0800 Subject: Re: content of messages Keith,if you look through the archives you'll find several books worth of advise oneverything from sharpening plane irons to the irons themselves, heattreating,tapers , finish methods etc etc etc as well as a lot of other stuff includingmessages like yours voicing concern at the tone of the list or lack of usefulinfo. It may be worth remembering the advise is given freely by list members,nobodyis required to keep feeding info non stop and a lot of things have beenrepeated over and over again in responce to questions and comments.If you want to know something, ask, you'll get all the answers you need. Tony At 10:08 PM 1/5/01 -0500, KeithW wrote: Sirs, I joined this list under the impression that it was to do with thesubject of the construction and the equipment for split bamboo fly rods.Tothis point I must say I am dissappointed in the constant zinging being donebetween certain people, the references used to describe others and thelackof actual usable information (without sifting through the constant drivel ofthe few) . According to the e-mail I received when I joined it states:"This is a good natured list. Strong language, spam and flaming are notwelcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from list without warning. Trytokeep your posts relevant to the subject of rodmaking. We all wander fromtimeto time, but please keep it to a minimum." I am not suggesting a lack of fun on the list, but isn't the main point ofthis to help those who need it and to discuss rod making matters. TosuggestI do not disagree with others and tell them so in strong langage is wrong,but I would not do it in a public forum. I will stick it out for a while andsee if things change if not I regret I will remove myself from the list andnot recommend anyone else I know join it. To those who post properquestionsand answers I appologize for my frankness here, but it's gotten to thepointwhere I had to say something. Yours hopefully Keith Weeks. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Jan 6 07:36:27 2001 f06DaQI20649 Subject: content of messages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C077AB.4F9D5D80 Keith rod making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a thousand =hours searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters of our =craft. I sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list has =moved in the past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room = musing and rants of those who seem to disrupt our otherwise pristine =little cyberspace do serve a purpose. For myself they tend to stimulate =my thought process on subjects seldom visited. There is a brilliant mind =on this list and one would do well to listen. Welcome aboard! Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C077AB.4F9D5D80 Keith making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a thousand hours = searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters of our craft. I = sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list has moved in the = few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room for far too long = is not the norm. I must admit though that the musing and rants of those = to disrupt our otherwise pristine little cyberspace do serve a purpose. = myself they tend to stimulate my thought process on subjects seldom = There is a brilliant mind on this list and one would do well to listen. = aboard!Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C077AB.4F9D5D80-- from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Jan 6 07:53:44 2001 f06DrhI20994 (63.228.45.217) Subject: Re: content of messages This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C077B7.A5780280 Do we judge people for judging people? Little children sometimes taunt =others by saying "what you say is what you are"Dave-----Original Message--- --From: Ronnie L. Rees Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001 7:37 AMSubject: content of messages Keith of rod making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a =thousand hours searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters =of our craft. I sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list =has moved in the past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the =room for far too long that this is not the norm. I must admit though =that the musing and rants of those who seem to disrupt our otherwise =pristine little cyberspace do serve a purpose. For myself they tend to =stimulate my thought process on subjects seldom visited. There is a =brilliant mind on this list and one would do well to listen. Welcome =aboard! Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C077B7.A5780280 you say is what you are"Dave -----Original = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, January 06, 2001 7:37 AMSubject: contentof = messages Keith rod making can be found right in the archives. I have spent a = searching for knowledge placed there by the true Masters of our = sympathize with concerns of the direction that the list has moved in = past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room for far = that this is not the norm. I must admit though that the musing and = those who seem to disrupt our otherwise pristine little cyberspace = a purpose. For myself they tend to stimulate my thought process on = seldom visited. There is a brilliant mind on this list and one would = to listen. Welcome aboard!Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C077B7.A5780280-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan 6 10:09:28 2001 f06G9QI24560 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:09:24 +0800 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:09:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Rod Set "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is the effectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement this summeristo do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundle intertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigious numbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water and foodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culm tothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Jan 6 10:24:44 2001 f06GOhI24943 Subject: Re: Rod Set "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" I suspect that this could be an easy thing to test, and I have all of theequipment needed to do so (not strength but to determine any changes incell anatomy/morphology from a light microscope standpoint) includingphotographic setup, microscopes, etc. Indeed, I just sent an e-mail to oneof my former graduate students who is a plant anatomist and have ask herhow I might fix and prepare bamboo for microtoming at the light microscopelevel. The tissue is so "woody" that it might be difficult to obtaininfiltration of wax (through an alcohol dehydration series intoalcohol/mineral oil, mineral oil then into mineral oil/wax then into purewax). The latter is the technique commonly utilized for such studies, and Ido this routinely (but not on woody tissues)in my lab.However, I am embarrassed to admit that I came extremely close to losingthe index and middle fingers of my right hand (I am right handed) to arouter accident ca. 8 weeks ago, and although I am at the point I can tieflies and use the Morgan Hand Mill, I can't hold a fly rod and at themoment my therapist is working towards that goal. The router fell out ofthe router table onto my right hand and "stuff" flew all over the place.STUPID!However, since I am retiring this summer but am keeping my lab space at theUniversity for the next 3-4 years, I will now be able to do the funresearch stuff I couldn't do before due to "publish/perish" pressure. Iwould surely love to do the bamboo anatomy as previously mentioned.Wouldn't it be great to either support/shake the concepts of bamboo rodbuilding thoughts on anatomy? I say this not out of malice, but in a mostpositive way of providing some scientific anatomical evidence. I suspectthat some things will turn out to be accurate, some may require rethinkingon our part.Does any of this make sense?My best to you both Jerry Snider At 12:10 AM 01/07/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is the effectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement this summeristo do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundle intertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigiousnumbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water andfoodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separatedby>>thin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culmtothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Jan 6 10:29:53 2001 f06GTrI25201 Subject: Re: Rod Set "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Oops, my apologies. I did not mean this to go to the list serv. Sorry.J. Snider At 11:27 AM 01/06/2001 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:I suspect that this could be an easy thing to test, and I have all of theequipment needed to do so (not strength but to determine any changes incell anatomy/morphology from a light microscope standpoint) includingphotographic setup, microscopes, etc. Indeed, I just sent an e-mail to oneof my former graduate students who is a plant anatomist and have ask herhow I might fix and prepare bamboo for microtoming at the light microscopelevel. The tissue is so "woody" that it might be difficult to obtaininfiltration of wax (through an alcohol dehydration series intoalcohol/mineral oil, mineral oil then into mineral oil/wax then into purewax). The latter is the technique commonly utilized for such studies, and Ido this routinely (but not on woody tissues)in my lab.However, I am embarrassed to admit that I came extremely close to losingthe index and middle fingers of my right hand (I am right handed) to arouter accident ca. 8 weeks ago, and although I am at the point I can tieflies and use the Morgan Hand Mill, I can't hold a fly rod and at themoment my therapist is working towards that goal. The router fell out ofthe router table onto my right hand and "stuff" flew all over the place.STUPID!However, since I am retiring this summer but am keeping my lab space attheUniversity for the next 3-4 years, I will now be able to do the funresearch stuff I couldn't do before due to "publish/perish" pressure. Iwould surely love to do the bamboo anatomy as previously mentioned.Wouldn't it be great to either support/shake the concepts of bamboo rodbuilding thoughts on anatomy? I say this not out of malice, but in a mostpositive way of providing some scientific anatomical evidence. I suspectthat some things will turn out to be accurate, some may require rethinkingon our part.Does any of this make sense?My best to you both Jerry Snider At 12:10 AM 01/07/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is theeffectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement thissummer isto do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundleintertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigiousnumbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water andfoodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they form fiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culmtothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Sat Jan 6 10:37:55 2001 f06GbsI25501 Subject: Re: content of messages Yeah, Ron, but which one??????Art from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Jan 6 11:05:04 2001 f06H53I26115 Subject: Re: content of messages ?Keith making can be foundright in the archives. I have spent a thousand hours searching forknowledge placed there by thetrue Masters of our craft. I sympathize with concerns of the direction thatthe list has moved inthe past few weeks. I can assure you having lurked in the room for far toolong that this is notthe norm. I must admit though that the musing and rants of those who seemtodisrupt ourotherwise pristine little cyberspace do serve a purpose. For myself theytend to stimulate mythought process on subjects seldom visited. There is a brilliant mind onthis list and one woulddo well to listen. Welcome aboard!Ron ArtI use the word brilliant in a collective since like one would in a braintrust. Many individualseach accomplished pulling together to reach one common goal.Ron from oossg@vbe.com Sat Jan 6 11:27:22 2001 f06HRLI26704 f06HRKW27271 Organization: Oshkosh Office Systems Subject: Saw Design With the recent discussion of sawing verse splitting, I was wondering ifany out there have a simple jig setup for cutting cane. I would like totry a comparison with sections from sawn and split methods and see formyself the differences.Any help would be appreciated.Scott from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Sat Jan 6 11:43:35 2001 f06HhYI27286 Subject: Re: Saw Design Scott, JW makes a simple little jig for just such a job. he can be reached at (559) 587 9655 or jwflyrod@jwflyrods.com. no commercial interest, ect. etc Tight Lines, Chuck from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Jan 6 12:36:27 2001 f06IaQI28479 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Taper Advice A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on the action of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather than change the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking rod will be to handle somewind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from jhewittiii@springsips.com Sat Jan 6 12:37:10 2001 f06Ib9I28605 springsips.com) (63.29.89.94) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Rod Set Jerry,I, for one, am glad you did send this message to the list. I would bemost interested in seeing the results of your testing. Amazingly I think thisisone of the few areas that has not been thouroughly probed in the years Ihavebeen on the list.I hope the fingers heal quickly and completely. Every time I hear of a shopaccident it serves to make me more careful in my own shop. John Hewitt Jerry Snider wrote: I suspect that this could be an easy thing to test, and I have all of theequipment needed to do so (not strength but to determine any changes incell anatomy/morphology from a light microscope standpoint) includingphotographic setup, microscopes, etc. Indeed, I just sent an e-mail to oneof my former graduate students who is a plant anatomist and have ask herhow I might fix and prepare bamboo for microtoming at the lightmicroscopelevel. The tissue is so "woody" that it might be difficult to obtaininfiltration of wax (through an alcohol dehydration series intoalcohol/mineral oil, mineral oil then into mineral oil/wax then into purewax). The latter is the technique commonly utilized for such studies, and Ido this routinely (but not on woody tissues)in my lab.However, I am embarrassed to admit that I came extremely close to losingthe index and middle fingers of my right hand (I am right handed) to arouter accident ca. 8 weeks ago, and although I am at the point I can tieflies and use the Morgan Hand Mill, I can't hold a fly rod and at themoment my therapist is working towards that goal. The router fell out ofthe router table onto my right hand and "stuff" flew all over the place.STUPID!However, since I am retiring this summer but am keeping my lab space attheUniversity for the next 3-4 years, I will now be able to do the funresearch stuff I couldn't do before due to "publish/perish" pressure. Iwould surely love to do the bamboo anatomy as previously mentioned.Wouldn't it be great to either support/shake the concepts of bamboo rodbuilding thoughts on anatomy? I say this not out of malice, but in a mostpositive way of providing some scientific anatomical evidence. I suspectthat some things will turn out to be accurate, some may require rethinkingon our part.Does any of this make sense?My best to you both Jerry Snider At 12:10 AM 01/07/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry & Jerry,what Jerry S says below is more or less what I was questioning. Do thefibers in fact continue past the nodes or is the bundle of fibers at thenodes mixing everything up.Something else that may be nice to see in microscopic detail is theeffectsof pressing nodes? Tony At 12:59 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:One of the experiments I am anticipating upon my retirement thissummer isto do microtome (thin microscopic sections) sections of the nodes ofbamboo, both in cross (transverse) section and in longitudinal section tosee what , indeed, is happening to the fibers in the nodal region. Isuspect that Jerry may be correct in his analysis of the nodes. If therewere a considerable number of leaf scars produced at each node, then Isuspect that there will be an immense amount of fiber bundleintertwining,leading into and out of the leaves. However, the nice thing aboutArundinaria amablilis is that it doesn't seem to produce prodigiousnumbersof leaves at the nodes as do many other species of bamboo. When onetypically looks at a fiber bundle in cross (transverse) section under themicroscope you will see a kind of Mickey Mouse face, with two large cellsforming the eyes and a large cell forming the mouth. This is water andfoodconducting tissue and offers no support. The remainder of the cellsformingthe bundle (the brown stuff) consists of thick- walled supportivefibers--what you folks call power fibers. The bundles are separated bythin-walled cells (the small white lines) and also provide no support. Asone progresses to the center of the culm, the thin-walled cells becomemoreprominent and the fiber bundles less so, i.e forming the pith.Things I want to look at is: what is the length of a single fiber? How fardo fibers wander from above the node to below a node as they formfiberbundles? How do fibers pass through the node? How thin/thick, indeed, isthe enamel on a culm? How do all of these differ from one side of a culmtothe other? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 13:14:29 2001 f06JESI29295 2001 11:14:28 PST Subject: RE: Taper Advice i made the 7'victory. and used a standard ferrule atthe suggestion of someone at rec. the peak to peakdiam is about the diam of the male end of a standardferrule. the idea was that i would not be taking offany bamboo to mount a ferrule. it worked well andlooks fine. i can't rally tell any diff from the stepdown ferrule. next i plan to build using the averagingmethod and see how it works out. timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on theaction of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather thanchange the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of martySent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rodsthat where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly differentdimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the sameweight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved bysimply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding themand deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a"super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficultthan getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmlybelieve thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduceanother rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many othervariables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added manythousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and youdo, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours,suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do thebest you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather thanjudge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod andam looking weight. Therod will be should be ableto handle somewind. I am thinking about making a PhillipsonPeerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried aboutthe largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confidentenough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferruledrop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be veryproblematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I wouldvery muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Jan 6 13:27:12 2001 f06JRBI29581 Subject: [Fwd: Classic Bamboo Rodmakers Past & Present] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 48CEB51F6DD51335818A8A01 --------------48CEB51F6DD51335818A8A01 Subject: Classic Bamboo Rodmakers Past & Present I recollect a recent posting trying to find a copy of the abovepublication!Behold........www.anglebooks.com No commercial interest etc .........Paul --------------48CEB51F6DD51335818A8A01-- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Jan 6 13:40:27 2001 f06JeQI29874 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Milling Machine Hey!! Maybe all of us who are interested in building a milling machineshould send TA (hexagon@odyssee.net) an email every time he comes on the list. Thatway, he will be kept busy insulting everyone who is trying to come upwith a milling machine and he won't have any of his precious time towaste stirring up his normal crap on the list. I've been through 3 or 4of his "visits" to the list and have seen about enough. I don'tcontribute to the list that often, but gain a lot of valuable knowledge from the list (I just wish I could use it in a more timely fashion). cadams46@juno.com wrote: With all this talk of various machinery and people building them hasgotme to wondering what some of the generic designs for these machinesare?I have been thinking that maybe I'd like to try my hand at buildingamachine but really have no idea as to where to start since the onlybooksI have are the Garrison book and George Holden's book. What would youguys recommend as a good book to see a diagram of a milling machine or beveler? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://member.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Jan 6 14:04:15 2001 f06K4EI00405 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:04:13 +0100 Subject: Sv: content of messages f06K4FI00406 Ron Here I was, thinking that at least one person had finally recognized mygenius,but no, it was not to be:-) Otherwise You are spot on. The archives contains so many questions andanswers that it baffles the mind (doesn't take much to baffle mine) Therearehundreds of ways to make a rod, if one combines the collective experiencesof the makers who have contributed to this list during its existence. This prompts me to express my gratitude towards Mike "The List Guy" Biondo Please do remember that without this list, the knowledge now freelyaccessiblewould not be there for all of us to share. No amount of books or videos aboutthe subject could ever hope to a cirkulation as wide as the List. regards, Carsten I use the word brilliant in a collective since like one would in a braintrust. Many individualseach accomplished pulling together to reach one common goal.Ron from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jan 6 14:19:04 2001 f06KJ3I00840 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Taper Advice Hi Richard, You may be right but I find it hard to believe. There isvery little if any flexing going on at the ferrule. At least not enoughto notice. I do agree that a step down ferrule is an option but somemakers already have the Super Z style. Best, Marty A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on the action of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather than change the taper toavoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking rod will be to handle somewind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from thogan@rochester.rr.com Sat Jan 6 15:32:11 2001 f06LWAI01688 Subject: Orvis Flex Index Does anyone know how to calculate the Orvis Flex Index? I have seen a fewarticles on the web but they seem contradictory. from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Jan 6 15:50:37 2001 f06LoaI02042 (63.228.44.46) " " Subject: Re: Taper Advice dumb question maybe! Do you think splitting the difference with the ferruleis changing the taper?Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Taper Advice A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on the action of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather than change the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rods that where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly different dimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the same weight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved by simply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding them and deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a "super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficult than getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmly believe thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduce another rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many other variables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added many thousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and you do, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours, suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do the best you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather than judge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod and am looking rod will be to handle somewind. I am thinking about making a Phillipson Peerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried about the largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confident enough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferrule drop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be very problematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I would very muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Jan 6 15:53:21 2001 f06LrKI02237 (63.228.44.46) " rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Taper Advice What do you use to glue the ferrule and fiil the gaps?Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Taper Advice i made the 7'victory. and used a standard ferrule atthe suggestion of someone at rec. the peak to peakdiam is about the diam of the male end of a standardferrule. the idea was that i would not be taking offany bamboo to mount a ferrule. it worked well andlooks fine. i can't rally tell any diff from the stepdown ferrule. next i plan to build using the averagingmethod and see how it works out. timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:A step down at the ferrule has a real affect on theaction of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather thanchange the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step down ferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of martySent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rodsthat where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirly differentdimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast the sameweight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solved bysimply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions adding themand deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can use a"super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no more difficultthan getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmlybelieve thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduceanother rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many othervariables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that added manythousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't and youdo, what if his heattreating regimen was much different from yours,suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. do thebest you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, rather thanjudge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rod andam looking weight. Therod will be should be ableto handle somewind. I am thinking about making a PhillipsonPeerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worried aboutthe largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confidentenough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferruledrop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be veryproblematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I wouldvery muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 6 17:12:12 2001 f06NCBI03345 Subject: Re: Taper Advice Can I put in my vote for the Payne 98? I just LOVE that taper. Who was it at Grayrock 00 who wisely commented "I never met a 98 I didn't like"... Rob Hoffhines from tfbinn@mindspring.com Sat Jan 6 17:24:00 2001 f06NO0I03635 Subject: Re: Saw Design The Sept/Oct issue of "The Planing Form" has a drawing and detailedexplanation of a jig designed by JW Rods (Jerry Wall) that allows a band sawto be used to saw strips. The jig is very simple but ingenious. Mr. Wall wasgenerous allowing TPF to publish his idea. If you don't subscribe to TPFthis may be an ideal reason to do so.Winston Binney from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 6 17:26:48 2001 f06NQkI03828 Subject: A new Hoffhines! grose1@mediaone.net, dmoore@gustavus.edu, JB4sax@aol.com,MiTiernan@aol.com,hornwoman@hotmail.com, marquita@icns.com, b_squared@netzero.net,Garthsim@rcnchicago.net, allstarchiq15@yahoo.com,katzeyes@bellsouth.net,gmrogge@juno.com, Buster@pcc.net, jontuba@hotmail.com,eulenspgl@bigfoot.com, mathisdermaler@compuserve.com,Gary_Viebranz@yahoo.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,Piscator@crosswinds.net, rlow@obermeyer.com, mal@shol.com,jhtling@stargate.net Dear all,Megan Linnea Hoffhines was born Jan 5th at 1:12 AM. 8 pounds 5oz, 21inches (a nice trout!) Wendy and Megan are doing fine after a 17 hr labor.We'll have pics soon!! Thank you for your thoughts and prayers, Rob from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 17:27:03 2001 f06NR2I03885 2001 15:26:59 PST Subject: Re: Taper Advice dave, what i did was:i roughed the surface of the bamboo. i don't think 220is coarse enough. i spiraled a heavier thread over thepart that went on to the ferrule. i always soak myferrules in alcohol over night or a couple of hoursany way and clean them good and scower the inside ofthe ferrule well. i have a small triangle file with abroken tip and i scrower a spiral groove down theinside of the ferrule and clean it out again. i usethe 2 ton duro epoxy. when it came time to actuallydo it, i had to do it so this is what i did. there hasbeen no problem. the rod has been fished. i know thisis contrary to some of the discussion about epoxy andsnug fit but this is what i tried. so far it is fine. the cane did fit snug in the ferrule i had to take offthe peaks abit. it wasn't wobbly any way. someone atthe time was telling to use bamboo splines. it didn'tsound right to me at the time. now i might glue somebamboo to the end and turn it down for a more typicalfit. oh well! timothyp.s. if it comes apart i promise to fess up on thelist. tjt --- Dave Norling wrote:What do you use to glue the ferrule and fiil thegaps?Dave-----Original Message-----From: timothy troester ; rod 'akers Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001 1:15 PMSubject: RE: Taper Advice i made the 7'victory. and used a standard ferruleatthe suggestion of someone at rec. the peak to peakdiam is about the diam of the male end of astandardferrule. the idea was that i would not be takingoffany bamboo to mount a ferrule. it worked well andlooks fine. i can't rally tell any diff from thestepdown ferrule. next i plan to build using theaveragingmethod and see how it works out. timothy --- Richard Nantel wrote:A step down at the ferrule has a real affect ontheaction of the rod. Itmakes the rod feel snappy and lively. Rather thanchange the taper to avoidthe step down, why not just buy a step downferrule from Classic SportingEnterprises or REC and stick to the actual taper? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BehalfOf martySent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Taper Advice Chad, John is correct . I have miked many rodsthat where the samemodel by the same maker and had entirlydifferentdimensions. Althoughthey had a different taper they did cast thesameweight line.The step down ferrule problem can be solvedbysimply taking the twodifferent ferrule station dimensions addingthemand deviding by twothus getting the average. This way you can usea"super Z"style ferrulewhich is better ferrule design anyway. Marty Chad;Don't worry aboout it, it is no moredifficultthan getting thedimensions"right" for any other rod. I firmlybelieve thateach rod isan individual and that you can't reproduceanother rod from measureddimensions anyway, there are too many othervariables. What if theoriginal maker used athick glue that addedmanythousandths to hisfinished dimensions, what if he didn't andyoudo, what if his heattreating regimen was much different fromyours,suppose heused randomlychosen strips of cane??? see what I mean. dothebest you can andappreciate the outcome for itself, ratherthanjudge it against someunknowable yardstickJohn Amy & Chad wrote: I am getting ready to start my second rodandam looking 5weight. Therod will be should be ableto handle somewind. I am thinking about making aPhillipsonPeerless(see classiclisterv tapers) but am a little worriedaboutthe largedrop over theferrule. I don't know that I'm confidentenough in my demensionalaccuracy to try a rod with a large ferruledrop (seemslike demensionalerrors on such a rod could be veryproblematic). If anyone hassuggestions or thoughts on a taper I wouldvery muchenjoy hearing fromyou. Thank you in advance, Chad S. Boyd ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 17:28:34 2001 f06NSXI04159 2001 15:28:30 PST Subject: Re: Taper Advice i don't think i've heard of anyone who didn't like the98. timothy --- Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote:Can I put in my vote for the Payne 98? I just LOVEthat taper. Who was it at Grayrock 00 who wisely commented "I never met a 98 Ididn't like"... Rob Hoffhines ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 17:33:38 2001 f06NXbI04497 2001 15:33:32 PST Subject: Re: Mass lack of appeal Don't know what's normal, tony, i don't know what normal is anymore. i use tothink i did. i don't think building bamboo rods wouldbe considered normal by the normal people. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 18:59:33 2001 f070xWI05418 2001 16:59:28 PST Subject: Re: Taper Advice hi danny, i thot i just posted it last nite. as i lookthrough emails i don't see it. i'll do it againtonite. timothy --- Danny Twang wrote:Timothy, How come I haven't seen the taper posted? Pleaseshear it with me.... danny From: timothy troester Subject: Re: Taper Advice i don't think i've heard of anyone who didn't likethe98. timothy --- Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote:Can I put in my vote for the Payne 98? I justLOVEthat taper. Who was it atGrayrock 00 who wisely commented "I never met a98 Ididn't like"... Rob Hoffhines ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ .://photos.yahoo.com/ . ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jan 6 19:24:31 2001 f071OVI06010 Subject: Fwd: Kirsten --part1_12.71c6245.27891f45_boundary List,Some have asked if there is any kind of trust fund set up for Kirsten Gould so I asked Ray. This is what he sent me for all who are interested. I want to thank all who have responded to these posts for Kirsten and the rest of the Gould family. I know it has meant the world to them.Bret --part1_12.71c6245.27891f45_boundary 0500 Subject: Re: Kirsten Organization: GOULD Hi Bret,You are so unusually thoughtful and kind about this whole thing with mygranddaughter Bret and I'll never be able to thank you enough! Yes there isa fund set up and it is actually an endowment which means that the principalstays intact and they work off the interest earnings. Checks should be made Research Endowment.The mailing address is :Children's Hospital Foundation4800 Sand Point Way N.E.Mail Stop CL-04Seattle, WA 98105 As an update to all: We met last night with the physician and received somegreat news. The first two chemo treatments have reduced the tumorsubstantially and the leg of the tumor that had invaded the skull and waspressing against the brain is now gone. The bone scans also show thatsecondary sites are receding and some are gone. Thus is terrific news andhas the doctors excited as well. The path ahead calls for 11 more chemotreatments between now and July and then possibly some focused radiationtokill the last few tumor cells. We remain hopeful and are tremendouslyencouraged by the wonderful thoughts and prayers of so many folks.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Kirsten Ray,I have given the guys the information on addresses and I am sure that bynowKirsten has received some e-mails. I have had an inquiry to the effect ifthere is any kind of fund set up to help the family with expenses. I knowintimes like this that the medical expenses can be overwhelming and anymoneysare a help no matter how small. Can you please give me any information tothis regard or tell me if there is anything else we can do.Bret --part1_12.71c6245.27891f45_boundary-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 20:17:01 2001 f072GsI06624 2001 18:16:54 PST Subject: payne 98 7' 5wt 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Jan 6 23:24:02 2001 f075O0I08370 "Danny Twang" Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Its measurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barch told me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspect that Payne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has tried my variation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 23:40:29 2001 f075eRI08677 2001 21:40:20 PST Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt "rod 'akers" that is true. this is the taper i am most familiarwith. i have 2 others. i think theyre all good. timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Itsmeasurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barchtold me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspect thatPayne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has tried myvariation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester Twang Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 00:13:39 2001 f076DcI09272 Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:13:32 -0800 Sun, 07 Jan 2001 06:13:32 GMT Subject: Re: Saw Design FILETIME=[F6445EC0:01C07870] From: "Scott W. Grady" Subject: Saw DesignDate: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:26:11 -0600 With the recent discussion of sawing verse splitting, I was wondering ifany out there have a simple jig setup for cutting cane. I would like totry a comparison with sections from sawn and split methods and see formyself the differences.Any help would be appreciated.Scott There is one aspect of the saw/split question to touch on. Many of the 'heralded' cane makers used a saw on the cane but they would often sort out 80% of the cane to find the culms that were quite straight already. I don't know about the rest of you but putting that much of my cane on the burn pile would probably precipitate tears. I don't believe in wasting time on something unless there is a reason for it but splitting and straightening is something I have resignes myself to to achieve the quality I am looking for.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from jkcerise@rof.net Sun Jan 7 01:16:14 2001 f077G9I10245 Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! At 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard isinsulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards! I went to a fly-fishingshow in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual"stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. Alas, who is there infull force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself! Even had the kid with theentourage! I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insult rods)I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show. I have five year oldgrandson who could do a better job! No Shit, guys -n- gals! This guyturns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters! Missed finishingseveral spots of the windings on every rod!! NO winding check and theforward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dull axeand then run over a few times. He told me he didn't put checks on to savecosts!!!! I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I canabout the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and Iguarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave myshop! Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed ascraftsmanship. What a joke!If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahooproducinganything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!! Iventure that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now 10,000flyfishers know what his crap looks like! I did not even bother to castone of them, wouldn't waste my time!!! (And I'm Cheap!!!, just ask all theladies!!) I'm not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out there alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways! Says he's averaging two a day, most ever @ five! My opinion is that hehas an average of NO rods/day! This guy has not built one to date if hislife's work is like what I saw today. I literally chuckled for four hoursas I walked the show floor! This guy wouldn't make a pimple on arodbuilder's butt! As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie, there is nosuch thing!! What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination, arod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang thatdoesn't come back? A stick! Still laughing, (and crying a bit too for all the concern over this yahoo'swork!) John from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jan 7 04:49:35 2001 f07AnPI11890 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Hi John, A winding check at the front of the grip in no way signifies awell made rod. I seldom use a winding check or a hookkeeper not to savecosts but because both add weight (albeit small)and serve no purpose.I have heard that the greatest rodmaker Jim Payne never spoke ill ofanother makers work although I can see he had it coming. Lets try to refrain from it. MartyAt 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard isinsulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards! I went to a fly-fishingshow in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual"stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. Alas, who is there infull force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself! Even had the kid with theentourage! I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insult rods)I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show. I have five year oldgrandson who could do a better job! No Shit, guys -n- gals! This guyturns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters! Missed finishingseveral spots of the windings on every rod!! NO winding check and theforward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dull axeand then run over a few times. He told me he didn't put checks on to savecosts!!!! I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I canabout the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and Iguarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave myshop! Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed ascraftsmanship. What a joke!If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahooproducinganything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!! Iventure that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now10,000flyfishers know what his crap looks like! I did not even bother to castone of them, wouldn't waste my time!!! (And I'm Cheap!!!, just ask all theladies!!) I'm not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out there alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways!Says he's averaging two a day, most ever @ five! My opinion is thathehas an average of NO rods/day! This guy has not built one to date if hislife's work is like what I saw today. I literally chuckled for four hoursas I walked the show floor! This guy wouldn't make a pimple on arodbuilder's butt! As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie, there is nosuch thing!! What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination, arod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang thatdoesn't come back? A stick! Still laughing, (and crying a bit too for all the concern over this yahoo'swork!) John from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sun Jan 7 08:52:11 2001 f07Eq6I13749 Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt Hi, These look like the measurements from George Maurer's book. Any chanceyoucould post yours, Ted? David I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Its measurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barch told me that he has seen4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspect that Payne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has tried my variation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .0665 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jan 7 08:58:45 2001 f07EwiI13993 Subject: Book Wanted I am looking to find and purchase a copy of "The Anglers Workshop", and alsoa copy of George Barnes book, anyone having an extra copy of either oftheseplease contact me off list at jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thanks Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker from dutcher@email.msn.com Sun Jan 7 10:02:47 2001 f07G2kI15052 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:02:05 -0800 Subject: My Apologies ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Power Wrapper & Varnish Dear Dick,I have your address. I have your number of fingers, toes, I know what youeat for breakfast, I know how often you have sex, at home and otherwise!Iknow too much about you. Don't send me your profile again. I have itsaved on my hard drive 7 times now. What you are doing is in extrremelybad form!! Just between us, DICK, you are becoming a pain in the ass!Stop sending this crap every time you respond to the list! Have a littlerespect for your fellow listers, man!!! Go ask the asshole who sold youthat damned computer in the first place how to shut that shit off! We donot want it once, let alone 7 times. See the form letter below and takeheed of it!@!!!!!! Dear John, May I offer my sincerest apologies for upsetting you in this way. It wasnot my intention to bring discomfort to anyone on the list with my callousmisuse of a business card attachment. Without pause, I have turned off thefunction that has caused you no end of aggravation. I can only hope and praythat this will not have a long lasting effect on you. John, I do not know what type of mail platform you use but, perhaps ithas a "block sender" function. It might prove to be a real benefit to you inthe future. Mine has been very useful to me. It is rather pleasing to watchthose obnoxious e-mails go straight to the delete folder. Just one other thing I would like to mention John, and I say this withall due respect a candor. Sometimes the correct combination ofpsychotropicmedication is difficult to achieve and from time to time needs to bereevaluated by a physician. May you have brighter days and tight lines. Best regards,Dick from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 10:15:25 2001 f07GFOI15318 2001 08:15:24 PST Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt david i have a 4wt taper i got from reed curry and ataper for a stepdown ferrule. timothy --- parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:What other tapers do you have for the 98? David Parker On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, timothy troester wrote: that is true. this is the taper i am most familiarwith. i have 2 others. i think theyre all good. timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Itsmeasurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barchtold me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspectthatPayne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has triedmyvariation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester DannyTwang Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .066 5 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photosonline!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 10:28:07 2001 f07GS6I15719 Subject: Re: My Apologies There is absolutely no need to apologize. The .VCF is a very useful featureand I use it all the time. Most mail readers support it or will be. The onlyreason this message doesn't have it is because it's a new PC and I haven'thad time to set things up the way I want them (or build rods or fish, etc). Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: My Apologies ----- Original Message -----From: "John Cerise" Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:44 PMSubject: Re: Power Wrapper & Varnish Dear Dick,I have your address. I have your number of fingers, toes, I know whatyoueat for breakfast, I know how often you have sex, at home andotherwise!Iknow too much about you. Don't send me your profile again. I have itsaved on my hard drive 7 times now. What you are doing is in extrremelybad form!! Just between us, DICK, you are becoming a pain in the ass!Stop sending this crap every time you respond to the list! Have alittlerespect for your fellow listers, man!!! Go ask the asshole who sold youthat damned computer in the first place how to shut that shit off! Wedonot want it once, let alone 7 times. See the form letter below and takeheed of it!@!!!!!! Dear John, May I offer my sincerest apologies for upsetting you in this way. Itwasnot my intention to bring discomfort to anyone on the list with my callousmisuse of a business card attachment. Without pause, I have turned offthefunction that has caused you no end of aggravation. I can only hope andpraythat this will not have a long lasting effect on you. John, I do not know what type of mail platform you use but, perhaps ithas a "block sender" function. It might prove to be a real benefit to youinthe future. Mine has been very useful to me. It is rather pleasing towatchthose obnoxious e-mails go straight to the delete folder. Just one other thing I would like to mention John, and I say this withall due respect a candor. Sometimes the correct combination ofpsychotropicmedication is difficult to achieve and from time to time needs to bereevaluated by a physician. May you have brighter days and tight lines. Best regards,Dick from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 10:52:51 2001 f07GqoI16420 2001 08:52:50 PST Subject: Re: payne 98 7' 5wt "rod 'akers" tony, i need to look for them. i'll do today ortomorrow. timothy --- Tony Spezio wrote:Timothy,Can you post the other tapers.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com timothy troester wrote: that is true. this is the taper i am most familiarwith. i have 2 others. i think theyre all good.timothy --- Ted Knott wrote:I owned a Payne 98 for a few years. Itsmeasurements were significantlydifferent from those you have posted. Ron Barchtold me that he has seen 4or 5 variations in this rod taper. I suspectthatPayne must have alteredthis rod over the years. Everyone who has triedmyvariation has beenenthusiastic about its performance. ----------From: timothy troester DannyTwang Subject: payne 98 7' 5wtDate: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:16 PM 0 .0665 .08210 .09215 .11020 .12225 .13730 .14835 .16040 .17445 .19250 .20555 .22060 .24265 .26170 .28175 .31280 .31284 .312 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photosonline!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!http://photos.yahoo.com/ from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Jan 7 11:23:48 2001 f07HNkI16892 (63.228.44.106) Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Hi John, A winding check at the front of the grip in no way signifies awell made rod. I seldom use a winding check or a hookkeeper not to savecosts but because both add weight (albeit small)and serve no purpose.I have heard that the greatest rodmaker Jim Payne never spoke ill ofanother makers work although I can see he had it coming. Lets try to refrain from it. MartyAt 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! Even using the term Rodmaker around anything resembling the Bastard isinsulting all rodmakers as well as all Bastards! I went to a fly-fishingshow in Denver this morning and looked around for bargains and the usual"stuff" that a flyfisher needs from time to time. Alas, who is there infull force but Hizzoner the Gink hiself! Even had the kid with theentourage! I looked at the rods, (whoa there feller, lets not insultrods)I mean Poles, that he had on display at the show. I have five year oldgrandson who could do a better job! No Shit, guys -n- gals! This guyturns out crap and it has a Capital C in big red letters! Missedfinishingseveral spots of the windings on every rod!! NO winding check and theforward end of the cork grips looked as if it had been cut with a dullaxeand then run over a few times. He told me he didn't put checks on to savecosts!!!! I am just a plastic builder who lurks here to learn all I canabout the jillion or so aspects of the trade of rodbuilding, and Iguarantee you that no rod of that caliber will EVER, EVER, EVER leave myshop! Let alone be taken to a flyfishing show and displayed ascraftsmanship. What a joke!If you real builders are concerned in the LEAST about this yahooproducinganything that might be remotely construed as a bamboo rod, worry NOT!!!Iventure that he was the complete laughingstock of the show and now10,000flyfishers know what his crap looks like! I did not even bother to castone of them, wouldn't waste my time!!! (And I'm Cheap!!!, just ask alltheladies!!) I'm not one ti talk most folks down but this guy is out therealooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways!Says he's averaging two a day, most ever @ five! My opinion isthat hehas an average of NO rods/day! This guy has not built one to date if hislife's work is like what I saw today. I literally chuckled for fourhoursas I walked the show floor! This guy wouldn't make a pimple on arodbuilder's butt! As I see it, any further ink about the Bastard Rod is a lie,there is nosuch thing!! What I saw today is not, by any stretch of my imagination,arod. sorta like the old riddle about what do you call a boomerang thatdoesn't come back? A stick! Still laughing, (and crying a bit too for all the concern over thisyahoo'swork!) John from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 11:47:41 2001 f07HleI17426 Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! What is the most interesting is what is NOT in the review. I've seen acouple of the earlier versions of the Bastard rods and read several reviewson others. There were some serious flaws in the early rods and none ofthosewere mentioned. Had they been there I suspect Mr. Cerise would have pointedthem out. So it sounds like George is making progress. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message-----[snip] from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 7 12:17:13 2001 f07IHDI17985 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:17:12 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Paul Looks are not everything in a rod - One of the best rods I've evercast was the ugliest rod I ever cast. I've also have also had manycosmeticallygood rods that just cast just terrible. So you cannot judge a rod by its looksalone.It may be cosmetics that sell a rod but it is function that makes you keep it.A fishwill not judge the cosmetics of the rod you are fishing - only your fellowfishermen.The fish will judge how well you can present the fly with it. Chris On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:47:47 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote: What is the most interesting is what is NOT in the review. I've seen acouple of the earlier versions of the Bastard rods and read several reviewson others. There were some serious flaws in the early rods and none ofthosewere mentioned. Had they been there I suspect Mr. Cerise would havepointedthem out. So it sounds like George is making progress. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:37 PMSubject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message-----[snip] from martinj@aa.net Sun Jan 7 12:56:11 2001 f07IuAI18529 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:56:05 -0800 Subject: RE: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! If you send one, don't include my name. Your post was one of the rudestposts I have ever seen on this list. You have "moved to the head of thepac". Don't bother replying. I have added your e-mail to my Junk sendersfilter. It will go straight to the deleted items folder. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! At 10:31 AM 1/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:No need to grieve guys, check out his updated site.I think I may download a greeting card and send it from all the guys onrodmakers! from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 13:32:33 2001 f07JWWI19202 Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Chris, I realize that, The early bastards had some serious problems. I saw one thatwas as straight as a cork screw and the ferrule spun freely when mated. Ifhe's getting them straight and mating ferrules properly then he's makingprogress. Get the cosmetics taken care of and he has a shot at selling morethan just a few. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Paul Looks are not everything in a rod - One of the best rods I've evercast was the ugliest rod I ever cast. I've also have also had manycosmeticallygood rods that just cast just terrible. So you cannot judge a rod by itslooks alone.It may be cosmetics that sell a rod but it is function that makes you keepit. A fishwill not judge the cosmetics of the rod you are fishing - only your fellowfishermen.The fish will judge how well you can present the fly with it. Chris On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:47:47 -0500, Paul Goodwin wrote: What is the most interesting is what is NOT in the review. I've seen acouple of the earlier versions of the Bastard rods and read severalreviewson others. There were some serious flaws in the early rods and none ofthosewere mentioned. Had they been there I suspect Mr. Cerise would havepointedthem out. So it sounds like George is making progress. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:37 PMSubject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! It generally says more about the person talking than it does about theperson being talked about.-----Original Message-----[snip] from H2ODOC781@aol.com Sun Jan 7 13:38:15 2001 f07JcEI19441 Subject: the cure --part1_62.ac5d58b.278a1f9b_boundary The rumor is that the long awaited bamboo came into port on 1/3/01 through customs about 1/10 and then on to UT to me for my first everattempt= at this inspiring gig. =A0 long do I need to allow the bamboo to cure, age, dry? =A0When will I know th= time is right? =A0Bottom line is how long do I have to wait before I can sta= splitting? the side "threads" here. =A0 Ben JarvisHyde Park UT foggy and 5 degrees this morning =A0perhaps should be nymph fishing =A0warmer in the mountains than here in the valley --part1_62.ac5d58b.278a1f9b_boundary The rumor is that the long awaited bamboo came into port on 1/3/01going=through customs about 1/10 and then on to UT to me for my firstever at=tempt at this inspiring gig. =A0 how long do I need to allow the bamboo to cure, age, dry? =A0When willI=know the time is right? =A0Bottom line is how long do I have to waitbe=fore I can start splitting? I am looking forward to great things on this list if I can wade all the side "threads" here. =A0 Ben JarvisHyde Park UT foggy and 5 degrees this morning =A0perhaps should be nymph fishingtoda=y! =A0warmer in the mountains than here in the valley --part1_62.ac5d58b.278a1f9b_boundary-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 7 14:23:14 2001 f07KNDI20016 Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:23:12 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: The Bastards' Back, But looks like Hell! Paul I agree - some of the early rods - the ferrules fell off, etc. Gettingthe construction down is an improvement. Cosmetics are in the eye of thebeholder. But in the end, does his rods cast well? It is easy to criticize, butdamn difficult to build a good rod. Whatever he does in the way of publicitywill help