from danny.twang@pd.no Thu Feb 1 01:23:55 2001 f117Nre29450 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; m18)Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Snake Guides I have tried some TIG welding wire (acidresistant and stainless steel) but it is too brittle to be bent into a snake guide...... I have consider building me a short Al planning form for traveling. Not like riverside.....I`m going to move down to NZ for a year, and would like to be able to make rods there.. I have a friend running a machine shop, and he has a huge beveller/grinder??to groove the form.The feed bed is however only able to do ca 45", so a full length form will bedifficult.... Do You make the V-groove with the form assembled, or one side at the time?If the latter, how doYou fix the bar to the bench, and at what degree? I`m not meaning the Vdegree, but to make thedecreasing depth of the groove..... regardsdanny Tony Miller wrote: BobYour absolutely right about the guitarstrings !I play guitar too and I should have takenthe rust factor just thinking about the word "nickel" in my head. I guess It would have to be an nickel silver combination, and guitar strings don't have any silver in them.The stainless DannyYour right about my planning can only make 3 pc.rods on them and no longer than 7 1/2 . Iplan to buy or make some new ones soon. I might try to buy a set of the ones JeffWagner sells, when I see him at the show in Southfeild this year, but that depends on I'm capable of making them my self andI'm a machinist by trade, but it was allot of work to make the ones I are very accurate , but they were time consuming. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Feb 1 05:33:17 2001 f11BXFe01849 f11BX5W83222 Subject: polyurethane glue Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C08C9D.F083D6A0 Thanks to all of you who responded to my queries re PU.Am doing the =gluing tonight, and you have obviously saved me a lot of time and =trouble. Peter"It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C08C9D.F083D6A0 Thanks to all of you whoresponded = queries re PU.Am doing the gluing tonight, and you have obviously saved = of time and trouble. Peter"It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C08C9D.F083D6A0-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Feb 1 06:03:17 2001 f11C3Ge02157 Subject: Re: Removing Decals for Restoration At 10:06 PM 1/31/01 -0600, Tilo Wege wrote:List,Anybody have any clever techniques for removing a company decal fromundervarnish without wrecking it? I have a friends old SOUTH BEND 59-9' rodwhichI offered to restore for him for practice purposes. Let me also make surethis rod has little value. I know it has sentimental value, but I assume nocollectors value- yes, no?Thanks once again,Tilo Tilo, Best to leave the decal alone. If you are removing varnish you need toprotect the area in which the decal resides and work your way closer andcloser to it. I usually careful scrape off old varnish up to the edge andthen smooth it off by use of very fine steel wool. This takes some time andwill leave a darker area around the decal but if it is properly featheredout at the edges it is not too obtrusive on a flamed blank like the SB. As to the value. In excellent original condition a SB 59 complete with bagand tube sells for about $160 on E-bay. You really should assess thecondition of the rod before you strip it. It may be possible to "polish it"and give it a new coat of varnish. The originality of any rod affects its"collector value." If you strip it and refinish it the value may go downslightly even if you do an excellent job. If your friend intends to fishthe rod, then of course everything should be done to assure thefishabillity of the rod. The SB's are decent rods to fish but most peopledo not like to fish cane rods in the 9' range. -DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from ed_miller257@att.net Thu Feb 1 07:05:10 2001 f11D59e02990 +0000 Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:05:05 +0000 Subject: ferrule specs www.shentel.net/canerod/ is Chris Bogarts web page. from the menu on the left side of page, choose rodmaking classes, from that page choose NS, you will find tubing ferrules. Ed M. from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Feb 1 07:50:15 2001 f11DoEe03606 FAA25824 Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Hey list, good morning!I'm a'thinkin' I'm gonna do a Dickerson 8015 Guide Special to use as asteelhead rod this spring. I have the taper from the Howell's book, andsee that there is a .014" drop over the ferrule (.250/.236). I amconsidering making the rod as a three piece rather than two and wonderedif anyone has done the 8015 this way. If so, what is the recommendation it and use .243", or don't mess with a good thing and leave it as a twopiece rod, or what? If I do go to three piece, are there otheradjustments to the taper that should be made to accomodate the use oftwo ferrules rather than one? Appreciate your help and suggestions. g'day to all, mac from rgelder@excite.ca Thu Feb 1 09:43:44 2001 f11Fhie07888 Subject: Bamboo video clip The lastest issue of The WesternFlyfisher Webzine is out. It has a nicevideo clip of Winston bamboo rodmaking. The clip is listed as Bamboo Rodswith Glenn Brackett. The piece is narrated by Charles Kurralt, so I'm notsure if this appeared on his Sunday morning show at some time. URL is www.westernflyfisher.com If your not a subscriber you'll have to sign up. It's free. Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from caneman@clnk.com Thu Feb 1 09:55:40 2001 f11Ftde08461 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Bamboo video clip Ron,The video is several years old, and nice to watch. If you get it, thename of it is "Winston Waters" and it is a very enjoyable video. Don'texpect to see much about what really goes on in the Winston Cane shop, as itdoesn't show any details at all, but it is definitely well worth watching.You can order it from Winston's Website or call them. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo video clip The lastest issue of The WesternFlyfisher Webzine is out. It has a nicevideo clip of Winston bamboo rodmaking. The clip is listed as Bamboo Rodswith Glenn Brackett. The piece is narrated by Charles Kurralt, so I'm notsure if this appeared on his Sunday morning show at some time. URL is www.westernflyfisher.com If your not a subscriber you'll have to sign up. It's free. Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 1 10:17:43 2001 f11GHfe09567 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Snake Guides There is stainless steel wire available that is spring tempered, that can beformed into guides. We buy it in bulk for the lines used to fly models with.Check www.traverstools for prices, which are very reasonable.GMA from owen@davies.mv.com Thu Feb 1 11:26:06 2001 f11HQ5e12103 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: polyurethane glue Among other steps in his proposed gluing process, petermckean included: (c) apply an ample amount of glue to cover all the surfaces to be glued;just like Epon Do note that, unlike other glues in normal woodworking use, polyurethane glues are applied to just one side of a joint. Some people moisten theother side; others don't. But I've never heard of anyone putting PU glueon both pieces of material to be joined. Probably makes things a little harder with pieces as small as rod splines,and I'm not sure it really matters, but for whatever it's worth. Owen Davies from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 1 12:21:09 2001 f11IL8e14087 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:19:28 -0600 ,"'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: polyurethane glue Using Pro Bond, I've always covered all surfaces, altho' I blot up any watersprayed on the surfaces, before applying it. After binding, it's going tofoam anyway, and this I wipe away until all foaming stops. Afterstraightening and hanging over night, I remove the binding, and re- hangundisturbed for a total of 24 hours. Then normal scraping/clean up as usual.To date no visual glue lines. I became more convinced of this glue, when I repaired a Heddon casting rodthat had a strip broken clean, across the strip, among all separated strips.After a few days, cleaned, and sanded ready for new wraps, the acid testwasto really flex the butt section hard. There was not a sign of any failure inthe repaired area ! I make no pretense of being an expert rod builder, but I have worked withwoods, glues, and glue joints close to 63 years, and this is good glue. Theacid test will be when I use Probond for my first rod ! GMA from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Feb 1 13:17:05 2001 f11JH5e15896 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:16:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Removing Decals for Restoration Hi Tilo, I have not been able to find a way to remove manufacturers decals as yet.I find it is not to difficult to work around the decals. If the varnish is not to bad over the decal I use a little amount ofpolishing compound to clean the decal surface. I use a razor blade tocarefully scrape the varnish from around the decal before applying the newvarnish. If the varnish is mostly gone over the decal I will apply a couple coatsof new varnish and allow that to cure then carefully rub the new coats out.I keep repeating this process until I have it the way I want it. I have always tried to preserve the identity of any rod I refinish. Ifeel it maintains the aesthetics and helps to insure any future value. Ibelieve it reflects the type of work I do and the quality of mycraftsmanship. I found a value guide that lists the Heddon 59 at $225 for near new orrestored condition. http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/canecoun/orvis.htm Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tilo Wege Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:06 PMSubject: Removing Decals for Restoration List,Anybody have any clever techniques for removing a company decal fromundervarnish without wrecking it? I have a friends old SOUTH BEND 59-9' rodwhichI offered to restore for him for practice purposes. Let me also make surethis rod has little value. I know it has sentimental value, but I assumenocollectors value- yes, no?Thanks once again,Tilo from charbuck@gateway.net Thu Feb 1 13:49:02 2001 f11Jn1e17260 Subject: unsubscribe This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C08C56.B8EEAEA0 Please take me off of the list. Thank. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C08C56.B8EEAEA0 Pleasetake = ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C08C56.B8EEAEA0-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Feb 1 16:24:02 2001 f11MO1e23475 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:23:56 -0800 Subject: Hardy Rod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C08C5A.A05D7AC0 Hello All, I need some information about a 9", Hardy, Palakona, The FairchildModel. The line and rod weights would help. The action type would also behelpful. Any personal experience with this rod would be nice to hear about.Now, if you care to stick your neck out you might even voice your opinion onthe value of such a rod. It is used, has tight ferrules, all sections areequal and true. It needs a couple of guides and wraps and the finish willprobably polish out. Thanks in advance. BTW, is there a web site that gives information about Hardy rods. Theonly thing I have found is the site that lists the manufacturing dates fromthe serial numbers. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C08C5A.A05D7AC0 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010201T222402ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C08C5A.A05D7AC0-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Feb 1 16:38:31 2001 f11McTe24156 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:38:10 +0000 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod Try looking at www.woodyard53.freeserve.co.ukThere is a 9'6" Hardy Fairchild for sale on here at Ł325 UK Sterling.The rod is described as being in mint condition ,two tops and dated1956.......Paul "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Hello All, I need some information about a 9", Hardy, Palakona, The FairchildModel. The line and rod weights would help. The action type would also behelpful. Any personal experience with this rod would be nice to hear about.Now, if you care to stick your neck out you might even voice your opiniononthe value of such a rod. It is used, has tight ferrules, all sections areequal and true. It needs a couple of guides and wraps and the finish willprobably polish out. Thanks in advance. BTW, is there a web site that gives information about Hardy rods. Theonly thing I have found is the site that lists the manufacturing dates fromthe serial numbers. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Thu Feb 1 17:46:17 2001 f11NkFe26244 (62.188.13.202) Subject: Measurmnt and tolorences This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C08CA9.5C85AD00 While blagging a mic. off my brother, he questioned the need for such =accuracy. After all bammboo will proberbly expand and contract a thou. = Does this sort of thing become an issue when rod building. SteVe CookJorvik ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C08CA9.5C85AD00 While blagging a mic. off my brother, he questioned = or two depending on the temperature. building. SteVe CookJorvik ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C08CA9.5C85AD00-- from trippma@mindspring.com Thu Feb 1 20:44:47 2001 f122ije01204 Subject: Delamination problem. Fix or scrap This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C08C7E.4E252900 I was fixing a slight twist in a tip the other night and got a little =too "vigorous" with the heat. I caused a slight delamination =approximately 1/4 in. long about 1/3rd of the way down from the tip on =one strip. The rod was glued with Nyatex and was heat cured. My =question is, should I try to fix the delam or should I just scrap the =tip and settle for a 1 piece rod. If fixable, how should I go about it? Thanks in advance, Mark ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C08C7E.4E252900 I was fixing a slight twist in a = about it? Thanks inadvance, Mark ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C08C7E.4E252900-- from tcwege@earthlink.net Thu Feb 1 20:49:34 2001 f122nYe01493 SAA29287 Subject: Removing Decals for Restoration-Thanks Thanks for all the ideas guys!Tilo -----Original Message----- List,Anybody have any clever techniques for removing a company decal fromundervarnish without wrecking it? > from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Thu Feb 1 20:55:00 2001 f122sxe01890 Subject: Re: Bamboo video clip After viewing the video, we stopped by the Winston cane shop summerbeforelast and Jerry Kustich was wonderful about showing us all around. Thevideo has the nice spirit the shop embodies. Kat and David Ron,The video is several years old, and nice to watch. If you get it, thename of it is "Winston Waters" and it is a very enjoyable video. Don'texpect to see much about what really goes on in the Winston Cane shop, asitdoesn't show any details at all, but it is definitely well worth watching.You can order it from Winston's Website or call them. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: Ron Elder Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:44 AMSubject: Bamboo video clip The lastest issue of The WesternFlyfisher Webzine is out. It has a nicevideo clip of Winston bamboo rodmaking. The clip is listed as Bamboo Rodswith Glenn Brackett. The piece is narrated by Charles Kurralt, so I'm notsure if this appeared on his Sunday morning show at some time. URL is www.westernflyfisher.com If your not a subscriber you'll have to sign up. It's free. Ron ElderCalgary, AB _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 1 20:57:10 2001 f122v9e02107 Subject: Micrometer List,My brother has given me a micrometer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 1 20:57:45 2001 f122vje02288 Subject: Micrometer/OOPS List, Sorry for previous post hit wrong button. My brother has given me a new micrometer that he bought and never used. How many of you are using micrometers and if any of you than do I was wondering if someone could tell me a good way to put a 60dgr bevel on one anvil.Bret from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Feb 1 21:39:04 2001 f123d0e03766 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:37:07 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers Subject: RE: Delamination problem. Fix or scrap Now, if you'd used Resourcinol...................: ) Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Delamination problem. Fix or scrap I was fixing a slight twist in a tip the other night and got a little too"vigorous" with the heat. I caused a slight delamination approximately 1/4in. long about 1/3rd of the way down from the tip on one strip. The rod wasglued with Nyatex and was heat cured. My question is, should I try to fixthe delam or should I just scrap the tip and settle for a 1 piece rod. Iffixable, how should I go about it? Thanks in advance, Mark from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Feb 1 22:47:01 2001 f124kxe05990 f124krW56754 "petermckean" Subject: polyurethane glue Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C08D2D.E644FEE0 Well, that was an experience! Just finished gluing up a butt section with PU glue, the first one I =have tried. On the whole my comments are very positive, but boy, did that stuff set =up FAST! My father-in-law uses a urea-formaldehyde glue, and compared =with the PU, he has a leisurely run indeed. The ambient temp here was =about 22 deg Centigrade, and within 3-5 minutes of spreading it on the =rod section I was having to keep my gloves wet with alcohol to ensure =that the rod and I continued to lead independent lives! Anyone else had this experience? I guess it varies from product to =product, as several of you told meit would. However, wetting the gloves with alcohol worked very well and the =cleanup was a breeze after Epon, especially considering that a lot of =the foamy stuff was removed during binding and associated handling. with =the wet gloves Another big plus is the hugely reduced use of consumables with this =product. I usually use two 10 or 20ml disposable syringes for measuring =Parts A & B of the Epon, at least a couple of pairs of surgical gloves, =half a dozen wooden tongue depressors for scraping and clean up, as well =as a heap of non re-usable rags and thinners to get the glass benchtop =clean. Also no mixing and stirring, and no awful smell. I have been very happy with Epon so far, but if this PU is as good in =function as the epoxies, I would have to give it serious consideration. =Tony is going to let me have some Bordens UF as well, so will also give =that a run, and to have a comparison I will build two more of these 6'3" =3-weight Wayne Kaynes, and glue one with Epon, and one with Bordens. Peter "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C08D2D.E644FEE0 Well, that was an =experience! Just finished gluing up a butt section = On the whole my comments are very = boy, did that stuff set up FAST! My father-in-law uses a = and compared with the PU, he has a leisurely run indeed. The ambient = was about 22 deg Centigrade, and within 3-5 minutes of spreading it on = rod and I continued to lead independent lives! Anyone else had this experience? I = from product to product, as several of you told meit would. However, wetting the gloves with = very well and the cleanup was a breeze after Epon, especially = lot of the foamy stuff was removed during binding and associated = the wet gloves Another big plus is the hugely reduced = consumables with this product. I usually use two 10 or 20ml disposable = surgical gloves, half a dozen wooden tongue depressors for scraping and = up, as well as a heap of non re-usable rags and thinners to get the = benchtop clean. Also no mixing and stirring, and no awful =smell. I have been very happy with Epon so = this PU is as good in function as the epoxies, I would have to give it = consideration. Tony is going to let me have some Bordens UF as well, so = also give that a run, and to have a comparison I will build two more of = Bordens. Peter "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C08D2D.E644FEE0-- from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 1 22:51:55 2001 f124pse06310 Subject: Re: Micrometer This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C08C45.02E57C80 Hi BretI use a micrometer (with a friction thimble) This allows me to get a =more accurate reading on the cane. Since it has a friction thimble on it =, it does not crush the delicate point of the cane. If you are to heavy =handed and you don't have a friction stop, you might get different =readings every time youmeasure(take a reading). There is a proper way to hold anduse a micrometer. Best advice, find a machinist and ask how. Iwill try =to explain how( Take your pinky finger and hook it thru the anvil in the =mic). So the anvil(part that looks like a C) rests in the palm of your =hand. Then take your thumb and whichever finger feels comfortable and =use them to turn the thimble. This will give you the most control . In =the machine shops I have worked ,If a guy came in and said he was a =machinist looking for a job,this was the first thing we did (give him a =set of mic's and if he held them wrong, it was so long.)LOL Also I don't =think you will need a 60 deg anvil on the mic, since you take a reading = from the enamel to the point of the triangle. (Butyou might know of a technique, I don't know.) If you do let me know, as =I would be interested in any advice you could give. Also I know allot of =guy's who use calipers.I also have a set of dial and digital calipers that I use. The digital =come in handy for converting decimal to metric(just one touch of a =button!) very handy indeed. If you have any more questions contact me =off line and I will try tohelp. I hope I did help! and didn't confuse the issue LOLTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C08C45.02E57C80 Hi BretI use a micrometer (with a friction = allows me to get a more accurate reading on the cane. Since it has a = thimble on it , it does not crush the delicate point of the cane. If you = heavy handed and you don't have a friction stop, you might get different = readings every time youmeasure(take a reading). There is a = hold anduse a micrometer. Best advice, find a = hook it thru the anvil in the mic). So the anvil(part that looks like a = in the palm of your hand. Then take your thumb and whichever finger = comfortable and use them to turn the thimble. This will give you the = control . In the machine shops I have worked ,If a guy came in and said = machinist looking for a job,this was the first thing we did (give him a = mic's and if he held them wrong, it was so long.)LOL Also I don't think = need a 60 deg anvil on the mic, since you take a reading from the enamel = point of the triangle. (Butyou might know of a technique, I don't know.) If you do let me = guy's who use calipers.I also have a set of dial and digital calipers that I use. The = in handy for converting decimal to metric(just one touch of a button!) = handy indeed. If you have any more questions contact me off line and I = tohelp. I hope I did help! and didn't confuse the issue LOLTony Millerflyfish@defnet.com www.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C08C45.02E57C80-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 1 22:56:38 2001 f124ube06675 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:53:14 -0600 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: polyurethane glue I've only used Elmer's ProBond, but working time has never been a problem,using it.GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 1 23:02:36 2001 f1252ae07092 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:00:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Micrometer That's great advice from Tony Miller, and telling it like it is !GMA from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 1 23:12:24 2001 f125CNe07579 Subject: poly glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C08C47.E4101600 I have one question about these polyurethane glue'sAre they water based? If they are, I would have some reservations about =them in certain climates. Is mythought on this unwarranted? It sounds as if the glue performs great in =all the other aspects. Has anyone glued a test piece up and submerged it =an water and then put it in the refrigerator for a few hours. If it =passes that test , I think your on to something. I'll bet epoxy would =pass. But I know some polyurethane finishes that would not. You might =say"When would you put a cane rod thru those conditions",but let a cold =mountain rain creep up on you and you will see those conditions. Let me =know if anyone tries this! AndI think we would all be interested in the results. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C08C47.E4101600 I have one question about these = glue'sAre they water based? If they are, I = some reservations about them in certain climates. Is mythought on this unwarranted? It sounds= glue performs great in all the other aspects. Has anyone glued a test = and submerged it an water and then put it in the refrigerator for a few = If it passes that test , I think your on to something. I'll bet epoxy = say"When would you put a cane rod thru = conditions",but let a cold mountain rain creep up on you and you will = conditions. Let me know if anyone tries this! AndI think we would all be interested in = results. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C08C47.E4101600-- from trippma@mindspring.com Thu Feb 1 23:25:39 2001 f125Pce08203 Subject: Re: Delamination problem. Fix or scrap Thanks guys, I'll give it a try. You're right. The worst that can happen is that I'llend up with a one tip rod, which is what I would have if I didn't try it! Thanks again! -Mark from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Feb 1 23:48:18 2001 f125mHe08968 Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:47:58 -0800 Subject: Re: poly glue Tony, I use polyurethane glue to glue up the exterior mahogany panels of thecabin on my boat. I use varnish as the only finish. The temperature range isbetween 30 - 40 degrees all winter with about 60+ inches of rain. Do notworry about it failing. I'm still dry and floating. Regards,DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:09 AMSubject: poly glue I have one question about these polyurethane glue'sAre they water based? If they are, I would have some reservations aboutthem in certain climates. Is mythought on this unwarranted? It sounds as if the glue performs great inall the other aspects. Has anyone glued a test piece up and submerged it anwater and then put it in the refrigerator for a few hours. If it passes thattest , I think your on to something. I'll bet epoxy would pass. But I knowsome polyurethane finishes that would not. You might say"When would you put a cane rod thru those conditions",but let a coldmountain rain creep up on you and you will see those conditions. Let me knowif anyone tries this! AndI think we would all be interested in the results.Tony Miller from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 1 23:54:31 2001 f125sUe09384 Subject: Poly Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C08C4D.C66126C0 I guess I'm going to have to give this stuff a try. Sounds like it might = Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C08C4D.C66126C0 I guess I'm going to have to give this = Sounds like it might be a great solution. Is this what every one is = TonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C08C4D.C66126C0-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Feb 2 01:50:48 2001 f127oke12536 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:50:41 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; m18)Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: polyurethane glue --------------040509000206020907020708 Peter, The PU-glue I use (Casco) has a clamping time of 3 hours. When I spread the glue it is tacky,but it is it from the tube, kinda like a syrup consistence. I have never had any problem with the glue setting up to quick.What I like about PU is it is water- and heat resistant and ready to use straight from the bottle. I`m not sure, but it seems like PU-glue is new in the US....here in Norway it has been used for years,maybe we have more experience making it?? Tony M, the glue I`m using is not water based. regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Well, that was an experience! Just finished gluing up a butt section with PU glue, the first one I have tried. On the whole my comments are very positive, but boy, did that stuff set up FAST! My father-in-law uses a urea-formaldehyde glue, and compared with the PU, he has a leisurely run indeed. The ambient temp here was about 22 deg Centigrade, and within 3-5 minutes of spreading it on the rod section I was having to keep my gloves wet with alcohol to ensure that the rod and I continued to lead independent lives! Anyone else had this experience? I guess it varies from product to product, as several of you told meit would. However, wetting the gloves with alcohol worked very well and the cleanup was a breeze after Epon, especially considering that a lot of the foamy stuff was removed during binding and associated handling. with the wet gloves Another big plus is the hugely reduced use of consumables with this product. I usually use two 10 or 20ml disposable syringes for measuring Parts A & B of the Epon, at least a couple of pairs of surgical gloves, half a dozen wooden tongue depressors for scraping and clean up, as well as a heap of non re- usable rags and thinners to get the glass benchtop clean. Also no mixing and stirring, and no awful smell. I have been very happy with Epon so far, but if this PU is as good in function as the epoxies, I would have to give it serious consideration. Tony is going to let me have some Bordens UF as well, so will also give that a run, and to have a comparison I will build two more of these 6'3" 3-weight Wayne Kaynes, and glue one with Epon, and one with Bordens. Peter "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields --------------040509000206020907020708 Peter, The PU-glue I use (Casco) has a clamping time of 3 hours. When I spread theglue it is tacky,but it is it from the tube, kinda like a syrup consistence. I have never had anyproblem with the glue setting up to quick.What I like about PU is it is water- and heat resistant and ready to usestraight from the bottle. I`m not sure, but it seems like PU-glue is new in the US....here in Norway ithas been used for years,maybe we have more experience making it?? Tony M, the glue I`m using is not water based. regardsdanny petermckean wrote: Well, that was anexperience! Just finished gluing up a butt section withPU On the whole my comments are verypositive, but boy, did that stuff set up FAST! My father-in-law uses a urea-formaldehydeglue, and compared with the PU, he has a leisurely run indeed. The ambient temphere was about 22 deg Centigrade, and within 3-5 minutes of spreading it on therod the rod and I continued to lead independent lives! Anyone else had this experience? I guessit varies from product to product, as several of you told meit would. However, wetting the gloves with alcoholworked very well and the cleanup was a breeze after Epon, especially consideringthat a lot of the foamy stuff was removed during binding and associated handling.with the wet gloves Another big plus is the hugely reduceduse of consumables with this product. I usually use two 10 or 20ml disposablesyringes surgical gloves, half a dozen wooden tongue depressors for scraping andclean up, as well as a heap of non re-usable rags and thinners to get the glass benchtop clean. Also no mixing and stirring, and no awfulsmell. I have been very happy with Epon so far,but if this PU is as good in function as the epoxies, I would have to give it serious consideration. Tony is going to let me have some Bordens UF as well, so will also give that a run, and to have a comparison I will build two more of these 6'3" 3-weight Wayne Kaynes, and glue one with Epon, and one with Bordens. Peter "It's a funny old world. A man'slucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields --------------040509000206020907020708-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Feb 2 04:53:48 2001 f12Arle15797 f12ArfW87588; Subject: Re: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Organization: vet Ralph I built one of these for my son last year. I like Dickerson rods, and thisone is a real powerhouse, but still has a lot of feel. I built up the tip section with some glued shims, and quite frankly, it wasa bastard of a job to perform. I have wondered ever since why I didn't just simply leave the bit of the tipwhich was to go into the male ferrule section the size that it needed to be;that would have been a lot simpler, a lot stronger, and made a lot moresense in the long run. Not enough complicated manoeuvring to suit us bamboo people, I guess. Incidentally, I fitted an REC reel seat with a removable fighting butt tothis rod, and while Lyle Dickerson would probably spew, it works a treat. Myson lives in the north of Australia, in Darwin, and does some pretty toughfishing. Good luck Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Hey list, good morning!I'm a'thinkin' I'm gonna do a Dickerson 8015 Guide Special to use as asteelhead rod this spring. I have the taper from the Howell's book, andsee that there is a .014" drop over the ferrule (.250/.236). I amconsidering making the rod as a three piece rather than two and wonderedif anyone has done the 8015 this way. If so, what is the recommendation it and use .243", or don't mess with a good thing and leave it as a twopiece rod, or what? If I do go to three piece, are there otheradjustments to the taper that should be made to accomodate the use oftwo ferrules rather than one? Appreciate your help and suggestions. g'day to all, mac from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Feb 2 05:05:33 2001 f12B5We16112 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 05:03:44 -0600 Subject: Re: poly glue The one I've tried is not water based, but water is its catalyst.GMA from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Feb 2 05:38:11 2001 f12BcAe16598 f12Bc4W90606; Subject: Re: Hardy Rod Organization: vet Richard If it were not for the fact that God will not allow me to use my scannerunder any circumstances at all, except possibly to send transmissions whichare the size of the known universe, I would send you acopy of the page. But since the divine imperative does in fact seem invariably to apply, heris what THE "TIGHT-LIPPED WANKERS"say about the rods in their 1934catalogue( sorry, "Anglers' Guide" ) THE 'FAIRCHILD' FLY RODS (Here is a picture of a generic 3-piece rod with a tube, which God does notwant me to send you. It's pretty basic, you can imagine it easily. It lookslike every other drawing of a rod that you ever saw.) These rods are very light and at the same time powerful enough to killfairly large trout.Built of "Palakona" split bamboo in three Joints, with two Tops,cork-covered Handle, Hardy's "Suction" Joints, "Snake" Intermediate, withAgate Butt and End Rings. Aluminium case which carries the whole rod.Weights - 3 3/4 ozs 4 3/4 ozs 5 ozsLengths - 8 ft 9 ft 9ft6ins.Price * 8.2s.0d.TO ORDER.- Fig. 1 "Screw Grip" Reel Fitting, 5/-; Pat "Reversible" Spear andButton, 7/- extra, page 266. Translation : "This is a fly rod for which we are going to charge you abouttwo month's wages. You can pay more if you like, for which you get your gripscrewed and your spear and button reversed. Go suck eggs." *It is a sobering thought on the ephemeral nature of the things of the worldthat in the decline of the power of the British Empire that there is nolonger any symbol on the keyboard for the Pound. 'And that's all I have to say about that' Peter. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Hardy Rod Hello All, I need some information about a 9", Hardy, Palakona, The FairchildModel. The line and rod weights would help. The action type would also behelpful. Any personal experience with this rod would be nice to hearabout.Now, if you care to stick your neck out you might even voice your opiniononthe value of such a rod. It is used, has tight ferrules, all sections areequal and true. It needs a couple of guides and wraps and the finish willprobably polish out. Thanks in advance. BTW, is there a web site that gives information about Hardy rods. Theonly thing I have found is the site that lists the manufacturing datesfromthe serial numbers. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Feb 2 05:51:09 2001 f12Bp8e16884 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:50:57 +0800 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:50:55 +0800 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod f12Bp9e16885 All you need to do is keep the ALT key depressed while you type on thenumeral keypad 0163 then release the ALT key, you'll then get ŁAs with most things English though it's more trouble than it's worth. :-) Tony *It is a sobering thought on the ephemeral nature of the things of the worldthat in the decline of the power of the British Empire that there is nolonger any symbol on the keyboard for the Pound. 'And that's all I have to say about that' Peter. /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Feb 2 06:19:01 2001 f12CJ0e17234 (63.228.47.33) Subject: Re: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Peter,I built this rod also. It is a real cannon. Gave it to a friend who took itto Alaska and used it for salmon and steelhead. He brags!Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Ralph I built one of these for my son last year. I like Dickerson rods, and thisone is a real powerhouse, but still has a lot of feel. I built up the tip section with some glued shims, and quite frankly, it wasa bastard of a job to perform. I have wondered ever since why I didn't just simply leave the bit of thetipwhich was to go into the male ferrule section the size that it needed tobe;that would have been a lot simpler, a lot stronger, and made a lot moresense in the long run. Not enough complicated manoeuvring to suit us bamboo people, I guess. Incidentally, I fitted an REC reel seat with a removable fighting butt tothis rod, and while Lyle Dickerson would probably spew, it works a treat.Myson lives in the north of Australia, in Darwin, and does some pretty toughfishing. Good luck Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph MacKenzie" Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 12:47 AMSubject: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Hey list, good morning!I'm a'thinkin' I'm gonna do a Dickerson 8015 Guide Special to use as asteelhead rod this spring. I have the taper from the Howell's book, andsee that there is a .014" drop over the ferrule (.250/.236). I amconsidering making the rod as a three piece rather than two andwonderedif anyone has done the 8015 this way. If so, what is the recommendation it and use .243", or don't mess with a good thing and leave it as a twopiece rod, or what? If I do go to three piece, are there otheradjustments to the taper that should be made to accomodate the use oftwo ferrules rather than one? Appreciate your help and suggestions. g'day to all, mac from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Feb 2 06:19:56 2001 f12CJte17375 (63.228.47.33) Subject: Re: epon Davi,What attachment?Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: epon this information to unsuccessfully. Attached is the mixture informationthatIve been messing around with. Some of the stresses established from postcuring with heat and not post curing are rather interesting . The heatdeflection is quite high.Let me know if you have any insights.David RinkerSorry folks I sent the wrong attachment try this one from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Fri Feb 2 07:30:13 2001 f12DUCe18308 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:28:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod f12DUCe18309 HI Tony:I thought you were pulling my leg on that one as it is so bizarre! For those of you who took this as a joke, as I initially did, it really does work. I never know when you guys are trying to pull one over on me.Bob At 07:51 PM 2/2/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:All you need to do is keep the ALT key depressed while you type on thenumeral keypad 0163 then release the ALT key, you'll then get ŁAs with most things English though it's more trouble than it's worth. :-) Tony Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from bconner@mediaone.net Fri Feb 2 08:17:15 2001 f12EHEe19070; f12EHCS28389; Subject: Bruce Conner's Rod Building FAQ has moved! Hello all! After much delay, I have decided to move my rodbuilding FAQ over to mynew ISP and shut down the old page. I've done a little cleanup on theFAQ, but not much, that will have to come later. Boy, is it starting tolook dated! So much has changed since the mid 90's with web technology. I'll just tell myself it's "classic" looking and hope nobody notices. Anyway, the new address ishttp://people.ne.mediaone.net/bconner/rodNframes.htmlso change your bookmarks. It's possible that I will have a forwardingpage from the old site for while, but I can't promise. Hope you enjoy it! Bruce Conner from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Feb 2 08:37:33 2001 f12EbXe20271 JAA04225; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: poly glue the ultimate waterproof -delam test. I used PU three weeks ago to reglue two halves of my wife's CONCRETEbirdbath(the bowl fell and broke) - thought I'd give this stuff a real work out.Incredibly, it holds water, birds and squirrels as if it were new. No kidding. "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Tony, I use polyurethane glue to glue up the exterior mahogany panels of thecabin on my boat. I use varnish as the only finish. The temperature range isbetween 30 - 40 degrees all winter with about 60+ inches of rain. Do notworry about it failing. I'm still dry and floating. Regards,DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:09 AMSubject: poly glue I have one question about these polyurethane glue'sAre they water based? If they are, I would have some reservations aboutthem in certain climates. Is mythought on this unwarranted? It sounds as if the glue performs great inall the other aspects. Has anyone glued a test piece up and submerged itanwater and then put it in the refrigerator for a few hours. If it passes thattest , I think your on to something. I'll bet epoxy would pass. But I knowsome polyurethane finishes that would not. You might say"When would you put a cane rod thru those conditions",but let a coldmountain rain creep up on you and you will see those conditions. Let meknowif anyone tries this! AndI think we would all be interested in the results.Tony Miller from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Feb 2 08:57:09 2001 f12Ev8e21027 Subject: Stamping Hello AllAnyone know where to go to get a stamp made for reelseats and ferrules. Also do you use an arbor press to stamp the parts, if so what is the procedure.Joewww.geneseevalleyrods.com from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Feb 2 09:25:25 2001 f12FPOe22822 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:25:20 -0800 Subject: Palakona & Spears This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C08CE9.3900DB80 Good morning Rodmakers, Every now and then certain questions will come to mind and then driftaway unanswered. Two such unanswered ponderings have reached epicproportions and must be delivered unto the fount of knowledge. I know of Calcutta and Tonkin cane but, what the hell is Palakona cane? Frederick M. Halford, in his book, The Dry-Fly Man's Handbook, states;"Personally, I always use a spear for the purpose of standing a rod up andsaving it from the risk of being trampled on by fellow-anglers, cattle,etc." Halford is speaking, of course, about the detachable spear point thatis supposed to be conveniently stored in the butt of a fly rod. Well, Idon't have one up my butt. If I am going to engage bovine-fishermen and cattle to preserve mycostly bamboo, I want something a little more lethal than a cork gripextension called a fighting-butt. Where have all the spears gone? Best regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C08CE9.3900DB80 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010202T152447ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C08CE9.3900DB80-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Feb 2 10:14:12 2001 f12GEAe24445 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod f12GEBe24446 I never joke. ;-) Tony At 08:27 AM 2/2/01 -0500, you wrote:HI Tony:I thought you were pulling my leg on that one as it is so bizarre! For those of you who took this as a joke, as I initially did, it really does work. I never know when you guys are trying to pull one over on me.Bob At 07:51 PM 2/2/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote:All you need to do is keep the ALT key depressed while you type on thenumeral keypad 0163 then release the ALT key, you'll then get ŁAs with most things English though it's more trouble than it's worth. :-) Tony Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from dorothyt51@home.com Fri Feb 2 11:26:50 2001 f12HQne27021 ;Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:26:23 -0800 Subject: Re: poly glue the ultimate waterproof -delam test. Have been using a poly glue for 5 years. The manufacture told me that someof his customers were using it laminate wood for airplane propellers,another was using it to laminate wood panels for dashboards in restoredautomobiles, was good enough for me, although I did a few tests myself.Found that the surrounding material would break before the glue line wouldfail.Leroy................----- Original Message ----- Subject: poly glue the ultimate waterproof -delam test. I used PU three weeks ago to reglue two halves of my wife's CONCRETEbirdbath(the bowl fell and broke) - thought I'd give this stuff a real work out.Incredibly, it holds water, birds and squirrels as if it were new. Nokidding. "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Tony, I use polyurethane glue to glue up the exterior mahogany panels ofthecabin on my boat. I use varnish as the only finish. The temperaturerange isbetween 30 - 40 degrees all winter with about 60+ inches of rain. Do notworry about it failing. I'm still dry and floating. Regards,DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:09 AMSubject: poly glue I have one question about these polyurethane glue'sAre they water based? If they are, I would have some reservationsaboutthem in certain climates. Is mythought on this unwarranted? It sounds as if the glue performs greatinall the other aspects. Has anyone glued a test piece up and submerged itanwater and then put it in the refrigerator for a few hours. If it passesthattest , I think your on to something. I'll bet epoxy would pass. But Iknowsome polyurethane finishes that would not. You might say"When would you put a cane rod thru those conditions",but let a coldmountain rain creep up on you and you will see those conditions. Let meknowif anyone tries this! AndI think we would all be interested in the results.Tony Miller from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 2 15:47:25 2001 f12LlOe05240 Subject: American Flyfishing Magazines Foreign List Members,Any of you guys that are interested in some American FlyfishingMagazines e-mail me off list and I will make arrangements to get some to you. I seem to have an over abundance in my house. Only asking for shipping to be reimbursed.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 2 15:50:32 2001 f12LoWe05422 Subject: Flintlock Guns List members,I may get flamed for this one but oh well. Is anyone interested in trading rods you have built for flintlock guns that I have built or am building? I have pistols, rifles, and smoothbores. I have more than I could ever use myself. If interested e-mail me off list.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 2 15:52:34 2001 f12LqXe05639 Subject: Sanding blocks List Members,The guys who have responded to my sanding block thing I am finishing up the blocks and mailing them out early next week. i thought I would be mailing some tomorrow but I may not get to the postoffice.Bret from sats@gte.net Fri Feb 2 16:08:00 2001 f12M7xe06393 Subject: Re: ferrule specs - the web page www.shentel.net/canerod/ is Chris Bogarts web page. Chris,I am impressed. ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/vzn05zew from sats@gte.net Fri Feb 2 16:08:02 2001 f12M81e06397 Subject: Re: Wandering Tools have my rod shop attached to. When I purchased the laundry, I thoughtthatI would finallysolve the misery of the socks only to find out that though one knows thatthey are missing they doleave the premises. I do however find a number of tools in the dryer's fromtime to time, thesocks do not show up on my bench so there has to be a third Portalinvolved. This thread reminds me of a couple of SF stories I read as in my mis- spentyouth. One, by Ray Bradbary told of a problem we were having getting rid of razorblades that were for ever sharp. The didn't dissolve and they didn't get dull.Eventually they started stacking up like atomic waste. The answer was tobuilda trans dimensional portal and shove them through that. As luck would haveitthere were some creatures on the other side that were starving. Theirnormaldiet was something like "ever sharp razor blades." The other, no so present, was the guy who went searching to find out whereallthose coat hangers did come from. Apparently it was a plot by the coathangersto take over the world because he was found one day in a closet, with a coathanger around his neck...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/vzn05zew from jojo@ipa.net Fri Feb 2 16:10:47 2001 f12MAje06781 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod Ł = Alt. + Shift, then press 4. It works on an International keyboard. All you need to do is keep the ALT key depressed while you type on thenumeral keypad 0163 then release the ALT key, you'll then get ŁAs with most things English though it's more trouble than it's worth. :-) Tony *It is a sobering thought on the ephemeral nature of the things of theworldthat in the decline of the power of the British Empire that there is nolonger any symbol on the keyboard for the Pound. 'And that's all I have to say about that' Peter. /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Feb 2 17:17:02 2001 f12NH1e09056 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Hardy Rod f12NH2e09057 Or Alt. + 3 on a Mac:-) Ł = Alt. + Shift, then press 4. It works on an International keyboard. All you need to do is keep the ALT key depressed while you type on thenumeral keypad 0163 then release the ALT key, you'll then get ŁAs with most things English though it's more trouble than it's worth. :-) *It is a sobering thought on the ephemeral nature of the things of theworldthat in the decline of the power of the British Empire that there is nolonger any symbol on the keyboard for the Pound. 'And that's all I have to say about that' Peter. from drinkr@voicenet.com Fri Feb 2 17:20:22 2001 f12NKLe09400 default) (209.71.51.165) Subject: Epon Information Last try This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C08D44.AC256BC0 The information contained in the document gives some interestingcharacteristics for Epon mixtures. Scroll down the page for the results . Iwas wondering how the stats stack up against other adhesives. Thesuggestions for heat treating are relevant also. Let me know what youthink. Hopefully this attacment will reach the list. Thanks for yourpatience. David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C08D44.AC256BC0 name="Resins and Versatics - Online Literature.html" filename="Resins and Versatics - Online Literature.html" =0A==0A==0A==0A=Resins and Versatics - Online Literature ==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A= =0A==0A==0A==0A==0A= =0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=EPI-CURE* Curing Agent3140 ==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Introduction=0A==0A=EPI-CURE 3140 Curing Agent is a low viscosity =reactive polyamide, high imidazoline, moderate molecular weight epoxy =curing agent based on dimerized fatty acid and polyamines. Epoxy resin =compatibility and thin film curves are very good. =0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Features=0A==0A==0A=Good chemical and corrosion resistance=0A=Good pigment and substrate wetting=0A=Good water resistance=0A=Good adhesion=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Suggested end uses=0A==0A==0A=Metal and plastic adhesives=0A=Potting, casting, and encapsulation=0A=Maintenance coatings=0A=Highway and bridge deck repairs=0A=Synthetic flooring systems=0A=Tank and pipe linings=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Storage=0A==0A=Epi-Cure 3140 Curing Agent should be kept in =tightly closed containers in a cool, dry place. =0A=Product will absorb moisture and carbon dioxide which may affect =viscosity or create foaming when reacted with epoxy resins. =0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Typical =Properties =0A==0A=Amine value 360-390 =0A==0A=Viscosity at 40 °C,=poise 30-40=0A==0A=Color, Gardner <9 =0A==0A=Flash point, ASTM D-3278,= =0A==0A=Mix ratio, EEW 190 epoxy,=phr 50 =0A==0A=Pounds/Gallon at 25°C =8.1 =0A==0A=Viscosity at 25 °C, =poise 130=0A==0A=Appearance Clear and free of foreign particles ==0A==0A=Equivalent weight,approx. =95 =0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Handling precautions=0A==0A=This product and the auxiliary materials normally =combined with it are capable of producing adverse health effects ranging = from minor skin irritation to serious systemic effects. Exposure to =these materials should be minimized and avoided if feasible through the =observance of proper precautions, use of appropriate engineering =controls and proper personal protective clothing and equipment, and =adherence to proper handling procedures. Each of these preventive =measures depends upon responsible action by adequately informed persons.=None of these materials should be used, stored, or transported until =the handling precautions and recommendations as stated in the Material =Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for this and all other products being used are =understood by all persons who will work with them. Questions and =requests for information on Shell products should be directed to your =Shell Chemical Company Sales Representative or the nearest Shell =Chemical Sales Office. Information and MSDSs on no=0A=n-Shell products should be obtained from the respective manufacturer or =vendor. =0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Table 1/Properties of EPON*Resin =828 Epoxy Resin cured with EPI-CURE 3140 Polymide CuringAgent ==0A==0A=Composition (parts by weight) =A B CD ==0A==0A=EPON =828 100 100 100100 =0A==0A=EPI-CURE 3140 4590 =45 90 =0A==0A=Blend properties at 25 =°C =0A==0A=Original Viscosity, cps 11,300 =9,900 11,300 9,900 =0A==0A=Gel =Time, 100 gram mass, hours 2.5 22.5 =2 =0A=Peak Exotherm=0A==0A=100 gram =mass, °F 92 97 9297 ==0A==0A=100 gram =mass, °C 33 36 3336 ==0A==0A=Cured State =Properites1 =0A==0A=Heat =Deflection Temperature, °C 97 7266 =64 =0A==0A=Ulitmate Tensile Strength, psi 8,500 =7,300 7,400 7,500 =0A==0A=Tensile =Elongation, % 4.5 11.8 3.07.2 ==0A==0A=Initial =Tensile Modulus, 106 psi 0.420.32 =0.34 0.29 =0A==0A=Ultimate Flexural Strength, psi 14,000 =12,000 12,500 11,000 =0A==0A=Flexural Deflection, inches 0.44 = =0A==0A=Initial =Flexural Modulus, 106 psi 0.310.34 =0.40 0.34 =0A==0A=Ultimate Compression Strength, psi33,000 =34,000 12,600 17,200 =0A==0A=Compression Yield Strength, psi ­=9,100 11,500 9,600 =0A==0A=Izod =Impact, ft-lb/inch notch 0.51 0.880.63 =1.18 =0A==0A=Hardness, Shore D 84 82 =84 82 =0A==0A=Water =Absorption2 0.18 0.330.16 =0.25 =0A==0A=Weight =Loss3 0.02 0.050.02 =0.05 =0A==0A=Electrical Properties=0A==0A==Dielectric Constant4 3.61 3.41 =3.85 3.52 =0A==0A==Dissipation Factor4 0.021 0.018=0.011 0.015 =0A==0A==0A=Determined at 25 °C on 1/8-inch thick test specimens. =Systems A and B were cured for 16 hours at 25 °C followed by 2 =hours at 100 °C. Systems C and D were cured for 2 weeks at room =temperature.=0A=Percent weight gain after immersion for 24 hours.=0A=Percent weight loss after 24 hours at 150 °C.=0A=Determined at 1 megacycle and 25 °C. =0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=SC:1680-99 =0A==0A=(Supersedes SC:1680- 95)=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Resolution Performance Products Sales Office: =0A=1600 Smith Street, 24th Floor=0A=P.O. Box 4500=0A=Houston, Texas 77210- 4500=0A==0A==0A==0A= =0A==0A=U.S., Canada, =Mexico =0A=Other countries=0A=Facsimile inquiries=0A=Email inquiries=0A=1-800-TEC-EPON =(1-800-832- 3766)=0A=281-544-6600 =0A=281-544-6604 =0A=TEC.EPON@resins.com=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A= toll-free:=0A==0A==0A=U.S., Canada, =Mexico =0A=Central and South America=0A==0A=1-800-FAX-EPON =(1-800-329-3766)=0A=281-544- 6330=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A= call our toll-free customer service number at: =0A=1-877-859-2800 or 713- 241-2772=0A==0A==0A==0A=Visit our Web site at:=0A=www.resins.com=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=*Trademarks=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A=Contact =Webmaster=0A=Last Modified:06/28/200008:48:43 =AM=0A=All Rights=Reserved.© 2000, Resolution Performance Products.=0A=WarrantyDisclaimer=0A==0A==0A==0A==0A= ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C08D44.AC256BC0-- from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Fri Feb 2 18:36:18 2001 f130aHe10973 (62.188.132.206) Subject: Starting point This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C08D79.6869D760 Now that I am reasonably well kitted out for bamboo rod making wreeto =start.My original intention was to use the 'board' method from Bruce Conner's =FAQ pages, and make a Quadrate rod. Is this a good place to start or =would the list suggest HEX to start wit.h SteVe CookJorvik ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C08D79.6869D760 Now that I am reasonably well kitted out for= making wreeto start.My original intention was to use the 'board' method from = place to start or would the list suggest HEX to start = ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C08D79.6869D760-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 2 20:08:59 2001 f1328we12355 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:08:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Epon Information Last try David,Got it this time. Thanks for being persistent. Sure makes you think aboutmixing the 828/3140 at100/45, and the described heat setting regimen, doesn't it?Harry David Rinker wrote: The information contained in the document gives some interestingcharacteristics for Epon mixtures. Scroll down the page for the results . Iwas wondering how the stats stack up against other adhesives. Thesuggestions for heat treating are relevant also. Let me know what youthink. Hopefully this attacment will reach the list. Thanks for yourpatience. David Rinker ------------------------------------------------------------Name: Resins and Versatics - OnlineLiterature.htmlResins and Versatics - Online Literature.html Type: Hypertext MarkupLanguage (text/html)Encoding: quoted-printable --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from ctn45555@centurytel.net Fri Feb 2 20:46:50 2001 f132kne13195 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Re: poly glue the ultimate waterproof -delam test. You should check your state game regulations before doing anymore of thissort ofthing. "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: I used PU three weeks ago to reglue two halves of my wife's CONCRETEbirdbath(the bowl fell and broke) - thought I'd give this stuff a real work out.Incredibly, it holds water, birds and squirrels as if it were new. No kidding. "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Tony, I use polyurethane glue to glue up the exterior mahogany panels of thecabin on my boat. I use varnish as the only finish. The temperature rangeisbetween 30 - 40 degrees all winter with about 60+ inches of rain. Do notworry about it failing. I'm still dry and floating. Regards,DickRichard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:09 AMSubject: poly glue I have one question about these polyurethane glue'sAre they water based? If they are, I would have some reservationsaboutthem in certain climates. Is mythought on this unwarranted? It sounds as if the glue performs great inall the other aspects. Has anyone glued a test piece up and submerged itanwater and then put it in the refrigerator for a few hours. If it passesthattest , I think your on to something. I'll bet epoxy would pass. But I knowsome polyurethane finishes that would not. You might say"When would you put a cane rod thru those conditions",but let a coldmountain rain creep up on you and you will see those conditions. Let meknowif anyone tries this! AndI think we would all be interested in the results.Tony Miller from martinj@aa.net Fri Feb 2 21:27:01 2001 f133Qoe13959 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:25:44 -0800 Subject: RE: Starting point This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C08D4D.FB6D5AE0 Steve, change your template and or font selection. Your message is barelyreadable. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: Starting point Now that I am reasonably well kitted out for bamboo rod making wreetostart.My original intention was to use the 'board' method from Bruce Conner's FAQpages, and make a Quadrate rod. Is this a good place to start or would thelist suggest HEX to start wit.h SteVe CookJorvik ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C08D4D.FB6D5AE0 readable. Martin= CookSent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:37 RodmakersSubject: Starting pointNow that I am reasonably well kitted out = rod making wreeto start.My original intention was to use the 'board' method from = place to start or would the list suggest HEX to start = ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C08D4D.FB6D5AE0-- from martinj@aa.net Fri Feb 2 21:27:01 2001 f133Qve13964 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:26:51 -0800 Subject: RE: Hardy Rod Just check out the Character map in windows. It contains all thisinformation and more. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hardy Rod All you need to do is keep the ALT key depressed while you type on thenumeral keypad 0163 then release the ALT key, you'll then get ŁAs with most things English though it's more trouble than it's worth. :-) Tony *It is a sobering thought on the ephemeral nature of the things of theworldthat in the decline of the power of the British Empire that there is nolonger any symbol on the keyboard for the Pound. 'And that's all I have to say about that' Peter. /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from builtone@hotmail.com Fri Feb 2 21:48:27 2001 f133mQe14587 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:48:15 -0800 Sat, 03 Feb 2001 03:48:14 GMT Subject: Taper Recommendation FILETIME=[23397C20:01C08D94] I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for mysons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in overhanging They'll get spoiled on advice is much appreciated. TIA,MarkGet your FREE download of MSN Explorerat http://explorer.msn.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Fri Feb 2 22:00:17 2001 f1340Fe14907 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:59:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation --=====================_25439373==_.ALT PHY Driggs or the "Sir D" Wayne Cattanach 7' for 4. At 09:48 PM 2/2/2001 -0600, Mark Evans wrote:I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids- only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll get spoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this will be their first cane rod it will be akeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nice taper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_25439373==_.ALT PHY Driggs or the "Sir D" Wayne Cattanach 7' for 4. At 09:48 PM 2/2/2001 -0600, Mark Evans wrote:I'd appreciate some recommendations for ataper for my sons. is aC&R kids-only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhanging get spoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. flys will be a advice is much appreciated. TIA,Mark Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_25439373==_.ALT-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Feb 2 22:00:29 2001 f1340Re14963 Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:00:23 +0800 Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:00:20 +0800 Subject: RE: Hardy Rod ,, "'RODMAKERS'" Unless of course you're just an old DOS head :-) Tony At 07:27 PM 2/2/01 -0800, Martin Jensen wrote:Just check out the Character map in windows. It contains all thisinformation and more. Martin Jensen /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Feb 2 22:02:29 2001 f1342Re15274 Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:02:27 +0800 Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:02:26 +0800 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation Try either the WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98. If you think the kids willdevelop into para lovers try the Driggs River Special. Tony At 09:48 PM 2/2/01 -0600, Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids- only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll get spoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this will be their first cane rod it will be akeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nice taper. Your advice is much appreciated. TIA,Mark ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Feb 2 22:03:03 2001 f13432e15415 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:56:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation I agree with Bob, the Driggs !GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 2 22:08:54 2001 f1348re15853 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:08:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation Hi Mark,Are you thinking 4-5 weight? Two piece? How about a Sir D, or a Payne 101? Both have strongenough butt's to handle those big fish. Sure wish I couldfish in there for about an afternoon... Harry Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for mysons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek inArkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids-only creek that's about20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout(why it's kids only). They'll get spoiled ona few 18" -23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 -7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these largerfish. Since this will be their first cane rod it will beakeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nicetaper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark -----------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Feb 2 22:22:19 2001 f134MIe16253 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C08D09.F9CC1EE0 MarkI would agree with the other guys on the 7' 4wt.(Wayne's Taper) I'm =presently building this rod now in a 3pc. model.And it does seem to have a stiffer butt section ,with a lighttip. Can't exactly say how it cast's yet, because I'm still working on =the tips. But the other guy's seem to like it.And they have given me good advise since I've been on the list.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C08D09.F9CC1EE0 Mark = model.And it does seem to have a stiffer butt= ,with a lighttip. Can't exactly say how it cast's = I'm still working on the tips. But the other guy's seem to like =it.And they have given me good advise = on the list.Tony Millerflyfish@defnet.com www.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C08D09.F9CC1EE0-- from stpete@netten.net Fri Feb 2 22:29:02 2001 f134T1e16524 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:30:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation Mark, My son is a big 11 year old and likes the Payne 101. In fact, the rodis now his. All things considered, I think it is one of the better allaround rods for those rivers. But if your kids are younger, I don'tthink you could do much better than the Sir D. I think my son casts itmuch better than the larger and heavier 101. Remember though, a shortstick on a young child's arm makes for a pretty small fishing range.Rick C Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We wantto build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&Rkids-only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees thatholds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll get spoiled ona few18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this willbe their first cane rod it will be akeep-sake for them and I'd like touse a really nice taper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark -----------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 2 22:54:53 2001 f134sqe17058 Subject: James Reames Rods I saw someone at Sommerset casting a James Reames Rod. Does anyoneknow if he has a site or anything about them.....Rich colo from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Feb 2 23:04:37 2001 f1354ae17400 2001 21:04:38 PST Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation i think a driggs river is a good rod as well as apayne 98 or 97. my 12 yr old especially like the 7'6"waara taper that the rodbuilders group made this year.it is a 6wt. timothy --- Rick Crenshaw wrote:Mark, My son is a big 11 year old and likes the Payne 101.In fact, the rodis now his. All things considered, I think it isone of the better allaround rods for those rivers. But if your kids areyounger, I don'tthink you could do much better than the Sir D. Ithink my son casts itmuch better than the larger and heavier 101. Remember though, a shortstick on a young child's arm makes for a prettysmall fishing range.Rick C Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. DryRun is aC&Rkids-only creek that's about 20 ft. wide withoverhangingtrees thatholds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'llget spoiled ona few18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like tobuild about a 7 - 7 1/2foot rod that handle small flysand these largerfish. Since this willbe their first cane rod it will be akeep-sake forthem and I'd like touse a really nice taper. Your adviceis muchappreciated. TIA,Mark -----------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Sat Feb 3 04:37:13 2001 f13AbAe20547 (62.188.17.159) Subject: Re: Starting point This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C08DCD.76C4E080 Sorry about that. I haven't had the computer long and things are stiil =going awry occasionally Hope this is moor legible SteVe Cook test screen ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 3:26 AMSubject: RE: Starting point Steve, change your template and or font selection. Your message is =barely readable. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: Starting point Now that I am reasonably well kitted out for bamboo rod making =wreeto start.My original intention was to use the 'board' method from Bruce Conner's =FAQ pages, and make a Quadrate rod. Is this a good place to start or =would the list suggest HEX to start wit.h SteVe CookJorvik ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C08DCD.76C4E080 Sorry about that. I haven't had the computer long = are stiil going awry occasionally Hope this is moor legible SteVe Cook test screen ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz ----- Original Message = ----- Original Message = ----- Original Message = ----- Original Message ----- Martin =Jensen ; Rodmakers Sent: Saturday, February 03, = AMSubject: RE: Starting =point Steve, change your template and or font= Your message is barely readable. Martin = -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= CookSent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:37 RodmakersSubject: Starting pointNow that I am reasonably well kitted out = rod making wreeto start.My original intention was to use the 'board' method from = place to start or would the list suggest HEX to start = ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C08DCD.76C4E080-- from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Sat Feb 3 04:45:55 2001 f13Ajqe20791 (62.188.17.159) Subject: Re: Starting point This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C08DCE.AE340CC0 Revamp and hopfully readable message.Now that I am reasonably well kitted out for bamboo rod making, were to =start. My original intention was to use the 'board' method from Bruce Conner's =FAQ pages, and make a Quadrate rod. Is this a good place to start or =would the list suggest HEX to start with. York Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 12:36 AMSubject: Starting point Now that I am reasonably well kitted out for bamboo rod making wreeto =start. My original intention was to use the 'board' method from Bruce =Conner's FAQ pages, and make a Quadrate rod. Is this a good place to =start or would the list suggest HEX to start wit.h SteVe Cook Jorvik ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C08DCE.AE340CC0 Revamp and hopfully readablemessage. Now that I am reasonably well kitted = rod making, were to start.My original intention was to use the = place to start or would the list suggest HEX to start with.SteVe York----- Original Message ----- SteVe Cook Sent: Saturday, February 03, = AMSubject: Starting point Now that I am reasonably well kitted= bamboo rod making wreeto start.My original intention was to use the = good place to start or would the list suggest HEX to start =wit.h SteVe CookJorvik ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C08DCE.AE340CC0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Feb 3 05:20:05 2001 f13BK4e21163 2001 03:20:00 PST Subject: Re: Starting point steve, i suggest you sart with a hex but if you haveyur heart set on a quad, do it! timothy --- SteVe Cook wrote:Revamp and hopfully readable message.Now that I am reasonably well kitted out for bamboorod making, were to start. My original intention was to use the 'board' method from Bruce Conner's FAQ pages, and make a Quadraterod. Is this a good place to start or would the listsuggest HEX to start with. SteVe York ----- Original Message ----- From: SteVe Cook Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 12:36 AMSubject: Starting point Now that I am reasonably well kitted out forbamboo rod making wreeto start. My original intention was to use the 'board'method from Bruce Conner's FAQ pages, and make aQuadrate rod. Is this a good place to start or wouldthe list suggest HEX to start wit.h SteVe Cook Jorvik ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Feb 3 05:56:10 2001 f13Bu9e21616 f13BtsW51507; Subject: Re: Palakona & Spears Organization: vet Richard "Palakona" is the TLW trade name for Tonkin cane (or probably for anythingelse they had lying about the warehouse, for all I know). Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Palakona & Spears Good morning Rodmakers, Every now and then certain questions will come to mind and then driftaway unanswered. Two such unanswered ponderings have reached epicproportions and must be delivered unto the fount of knowledge. I know of Calcutta and Tonkin cane but, what the hell is Palakonacane? Frederick M. Halford, in his book, The Dry-Fly Man's Handbook, states;"Personally, I always use a spear for the purpose of standing a rod up andsaving it from the risk of being trampled on by fellow-anglers, cattle,etc." Halford is speaking, of course, about the detachable spear pointthatis supposed to be conveniently stored in the butt of a fly rod. Well, Idon't have one up my butt. If I am going to engage bovine-fishermen and cattle to preserve mycostly bamboo, I want something a little more lethal than a cork gripextension called a fighting-butt. Where have all the spears gone? Best regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Feb 3 14:15:39 2001 f13KFce28268 Subject: Rob Hoffines Could you please contact me off list. I need a taper. Thanks for the bandwith.Doug Hall from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Feb 3 17:07:12 2001 f13N7Be00540 ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 18:06:12 -0500 Subject: rounded quads I have always kept the sharp edges on the corners of my quads. I have heard that some (including Edwards, I believe) rounded off the edges. Does anyone know how they did this? Who else rounds the edges?Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 3 17:14:27 2001 f13NEQe00990 Subject: Re: rounded quads Bob, I have three Edwards Quads downstairs. Two are original. Althoughthisdoesn't answer your question, I'll go down and check the corners andcomparethem to the corners of my Brandin and Irgens......Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: I have always kept the sharp edges on the corners of my quads. I haveheardthat some (including Edwards, I believe) rounded off the edges. Doesanyoneknow how they did this? Who else rounds the edges?Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 3 17:48:33 2001 f13NmWe01884 Subject: Re: rounded quads They are definitely rounded compared to the Brandin. Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: I have always kept the sharp edges on the corners of my quads. I haveheardthat some (including Edwards, I believe) rounded off the edges. Doesanyoneknow how they did this? Who else rounds the edges?Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from builtone@hotmail.com Sat Feb 3 18:22:22 2001 f140MLe03035 Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:22:18 -0800 Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:22:17 GMT Subject: Fwd: Taper Recommendation =_NextPart_000_24f0_4d8c_51cf" FILETIME=[883B1B40:01C08E40] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_24f0_4d8c_51cf Many thanks to everyone who has offered me advice on this taper. I've just logged on and have not had a chance to read through them yet. But the responses have been fantastic. Mark From: "Mark Evans" Subject: Taper RecommendationDate: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:48:14 -0600 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_24f0_4d8c_51cf from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Feb 02 19:58:33 2001 MHotMailBC44CC750059400431D880FC7801C4400; Fri Feb 02 19:56:412001 f133mfe14610; f133mQe14587 Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:48:15 -0800 Sat, 03 Feb 2001 03:48:14 GMT Subject: Taper Recommendation FILETIME=[23397C20:01C08D94] I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for mysons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in overhanging They'll get spoiled on advice is much appreciated. TIA,MarkGet your FREE download of MSN Explorerat http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_24f0_4d8c_51cf-- from GLCESAR@aol.com Sat Feb 3 19:28:12 2001 f141SBe04867 Subject: remove from list --part1_51.700450c.27ae0a1b_boundary Please remove my e-mail address from your list! Thank you glcesar@aol.com --part1_51.700450c.27ae0a1b_boundary Please remove my e-mailaddress from your list! Thank you glcesar@aol.com --part1_51.700450c.27ae0a1b_boundary-- from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Feb 3 21:31:47 2001 f143Vke07400 Subject: new Gillum taper I'm repairing the wraps on a Gillum for a local owner. It's a powerful 7'6" 2pc #13 ferrule (Super Z) 6 wt that will (sort of ) cast a 5wt. A fast, but to too unyielding rod, I might make a copy for creek smallies. Here are the numbers after subtracting 5 thou for varnish-ofmedium thickness:1 .0715 .08110 .10015 .11620 .13625 .14830 .16135 .18040 .205Ferrule .210 at top .220 at base50 .22555 .24260 .25465 .276 70 .29075 .292 80 .310 last 10" under handle and reelseat. Rob Hoffhines from saweiss@flash.net Sat Feb 3 23:57:30 2001 f145vTe08988 Subject: Re: Epon Information Last try This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C08E34.B246C580 David,I've been using a 50/50 mix with heat treating after the initial set, =and the results have been good. I think that next time I'll try the =100/45 by weight mix and heat treat. I wonder if anyone is using the =100/45 ratio.Steve The information contained in the document gives some interestingcharacteristics for Epon mixtures. Scroll down the page for the =results . Iwas wondering how the stats stack up against other adhesives. Thesuggestions for heat treating are relevant also. Let me know what youthink. Hopefully this attacment will reach the list. Thanks for yourpatience. David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C08E34.B246C580 David,I've been using a 50/50 mix with = after the initial set, and the results have been good. I think that next = I'll try the 100/45 by weight mix and heat treat. I wonder if anyone is = the 100/45 ratio.Steve adhesives. Thesuggestions for heat treating are relevant = Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C08E34.B246C580-- from saweiss@flash.net Sun Feb 4 00:02:19 2001 f1462Ie09237 Subject: Morgan mill This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C08E35.5DB185E0 I'm re-opening an old thread here. I am considering buying the Morgan =Mill and I'd like to know what planing angle most people are using. I am =inclined to stick with the 60 degree rather than the 61 1/2, because of =the increased glue content when using the larger angle.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C08E35.5DB185E0 I'm re-opening an old thread here. I= considering buying the Morgan Mill and I'd like to know what planing = people are using. I am inclined to stick with the 60 degree rather than = angle.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C08E35.5DB185E0-- from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Sun Feb 4 01:13:03 2001 f147Cqe10168 (62.188.142.136) Subject: Grayling fishing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08E7A.08795EA0 Karen, Is it worth coming down today, or is the river still as clear as mud SteVe ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08E7A.08795EA0 Karen, Is it worth coming down today, or is the river still = as mud SteVe ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08E7A.08795EA0-- from drinkr@voicenet.com Sun Feb 4 01:30:15 2001 f147UEe10467 (207.103.93.26) Subject: RE: Epon Information Last try This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08E52.46BE1A20 Steve ,Ive been using the 100/45 mix because of its obvious advantages in psi ect.over areas I think are significant. Considering the possiblity ofdeterioration of these figures with age. from what Ive read that occurs invarious degrees with all adhesives. It gives me a secure safety margin Iguess. Since I havent had any glue failures with any adhesive mix yet Ican't compare or contrast. I'm wondering however how the glue compares toUrac,Nyatex, Resourcinol, ect. in stress and heat resistance. Though heatresistance may be a two edged sword since cold temperature resistance isaffected by higher heat resistance it seems. Since I find myself in 40degree and lower temperatures quite a bit it seems. Overall I think Eponhas many good features in this combination. And the shelf life is good formy slow pace of rodmaking.----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epon Information Last try David,I've been using a 50/50 mix with heat treating after the initial set, andthe results have been good. I think that next time I'll try the 100/45 byweight mix and heat treat. I wonder if anyone is using the 100/45 ratio.Steve The information contained in the document gives some interestingcharacteristics for Epon mixtures. Scroll down the page for the results. Iwas wondering how the stats stack up against other adhesives. Thesuggestions for heat treating are relevant also. Let me know what youthink. Hopefully this attacment will reach the list. Thanks for yourpatience. David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08E52.46BE1A20 , been using the 100/45 mix because of its obvious advantages in psi ect. = of these figures with age. from what Ive read that occurs in various = Since I havent had any glue failures with any adhesive mix yet I can't = Epon has many good features in this combination. And the shelf life is = my slow pace of rodmaking. WeissSent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 12:58 drinkr@voicenet.com; RodmakersSubject: Re: Epon Information= try David,I've been using a 50/50 mix with= treating after the initial set, and the results have been good. I = next time I'll try the 100/45 by weight mix and heat treat. I wonder = is using the 100/45 ratio.Steve adhesives. Thesuggestions for heat treating are relevant = Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08E52.46BE1A20-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Feb 4 03:33:49 2001 f149Xle11620 f149XVW99180; "Owen Davies" Subject: Re: polyurethane glue Organization: vet ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: polyurethane glue Hello, Owen Thanks for your note. This afternoon I glued up the two tips for thislittlerod that I am using to try PU. My experience with the butt was that it gotvery tacky very quickly, and that I needed to keep a bowl of ethanol tokeep my hands wet while binding and straightening; the experience wasrepeated exactly with the two tips, so quite clearly the PU that I can getlocally is a much faster set-up than the ones that most people in the USareusing. It's not a problem, but you need to know about it. Taking the string off is a breeze, and a couple of sweeps on each flatwithan old clapped out Stanley plane iron is all that I need to do to get allthe crap off. So far on the butt I have only final sanded and given onesealing coat of Tung oil. It looks fantastic - in fact I am very temptedtofly in the face of accepted wisdom and just finish it with Tung oil andnothing else. In Tasmania, no 3-weight would ever get worked in the kindofextreme conditions where wiping it dry would not be possible. AndHeavens,it would save a lot of buggerising around with varnish!----- Original Message -----From: "Owen Davies" Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 2:54 AMSubject: Re: polyurethane glue I must say that the thought of doing the one surface thing with the PUjustmade my eyes water, so slapped it on, fairly thinly, I must say, andboundit up nice and tight. Seems to have worked so far. Yeah, it's certainly a change from what folks are used to with otherglues.I have never heard any specific reason you shouldn't coat both sides ofa joint, so it may just be a matter of not spending extra money andclean-up time on extra glue. If I find out any more, I'll post it tothelist. Gotta admit, this is all pretty theoretical. My experience in rodbuildingconsists of reading the list and collecting a few tools. Haven't evenstarted on a planing form yet. Best of luck with your rods. Owen from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 4 07:14:23 2001 f14DENe13004 Subject: Re: Morgan mill This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C08E81.E8A7A480 Steven: I purchased the 61.5 degree cutters with my Handmill. I like them =because the 61.5 almost eliminates the possibility of glue lines Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". = Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:02 AMSubject: Morgan mill I'm re-opening an old thread here. I am considering buying the Morgan =Mill and I'd like to know what planing angle most people are using. I am =inclined to stick with the 60 degree rather than the 61 1/2, because of =the increased glue content when using the larger angle.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C08E81.E8A7A480 Steven: I purchased the 61.5 degree cutters with my = lines Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= pest.com/r= ----- Original Message ----- Steven = Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001= AMSubject: Morgan mill I'm re-opening an old thread here.= considering buying the Morgan Mill and I'd like to know what planing = most people are using. I am inclined to stick with the 60 degree = the 61 1/2, because of the increased glue content when using the = angle.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C08E81.E8A7A480-- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Feb 4 07:36:00 2001 f14DZxe13337 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 08:35:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Morgan mill --=====================_58389681==_.ALT HI Steve:I have the 61.5 and 92 degree cutters. With sharp cutters and good prep on the strips, they glue up great. I cannot say for the 60, but I suspect in my many conversations and e-mails with Tom that he knows best.HOWEVER, if you use a V-block or notched mic for accuracy (see the last TPF), I would say go with the traditional ones. I may get the 60* cutter just to try that approach.Best regards,Bob At 11:02 PM 2/3/2001 -0700, you wrote:I'm re-opening an old thread here. I am considering buying the Morgan Mill and I'd like to know what planing angle most people are using. I am inclined to stick with the 60 degree rather than the 61 1/2, because of the increased glue content when using the larger angle.Steve Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_58389681==_.ALT HI Steve:I have the 61.5 and 92 degree cutters. With sharp cutters and good prepon the strips, they glue up great. I cannot say for the 60, but I suspectin my many conversations and e-mails with Tom that he knows best. HOWEVER, if you use a V-block or notched mic for accuracy (see the lastTPF), I would say go with the traditional ones. I may get the 60* cutterjust to try that approach.Best regards,Bob At 11:02 PM 2/3/2001 -0700, you wrote:I'mre-opening an old thread here. I am considering buying the Morgan Milland I'd like to know what planing angle most people are using. I aminclined to stick with the 60 degree rather than the 61 1/2, because ofthe increased glue content when using the larger angle.Steve Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_58389681==_.ALT-- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Feb 4 07:46:41 2001 f14Dkee13617 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 08:45:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Morgan mill --=====================_59030454==_.ALT Hey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard enough, buddy. ;^)Bob At 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:I like them because the 61.5 almost eliminates the possibility of glue lines Joe Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_59030454==_.ALT Hey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard enough, buddy. ;^)Bob At 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: 61.5 almost eliminates the possibility of glue lines Joe Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_59030454==_.ALT-- from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 4 07:59:48 2001 f14Dxle14111 Subject: Re: Morgan mill This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C08E88.57158B20 Glued up a butt the other day off of a Bogart Taper, and I did get a =glue line, however when I was planing the strips I didn't have enough =height to the strips in the butt end of the butt and didn't get a good =61.5 degree angle. Had to attempt to correct in a wood planing form. =Did pretty good, but still had a glue line. What the heck it's going to =be a rod for me for the summer anyway. Just won't let anyone see it. Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". = Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Morgan mill Hey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard enough, buddy. ;^)Bob At 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: I like them because the 61.5 almost eliminates the possibility of =glue lines Joe Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C08E88.57158B20 Glued up a butt the other day off of a Bogart Taper,= get a glue line, however when I was planing the strips I didn't have = height to the strips in the butt end of the butt and didn't get a good = it. Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= pest.com/r= ----- Original Message ----- Maulucci ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001= AMSubject: Re: Morgan millHey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard enough, = ;^)BobAt 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe =wrote: =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhttp://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218= AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 = bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C08E88.57158B20-- from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Sun Feb 4 08:05:42 2001 f14E5Ue14323 (62.188.15.165) Subject: Re: Grayling fishing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C08EB3.B7FEE780 Please disregard this message. My computer seems to have developed a =sense of humour and is now sending mail to the wrong addresses =E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=96=90=E2=96=88=E2==96=80=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96==84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3==16=16=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99==A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3==E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=10==10=10=10=10=10=10=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2==96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96==A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1 SteVe Jorvik Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:13 AM Karen, Is it worth coming down today, or is the river still as clear as mud SteVe ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C08EB3.B7FEE780 Pleasedisregard = My computer seems to have developed a sense of humour and is now sending= addresses=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=96=90==E2=96=88=E2=96=80=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2==96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99==A3=E2=99=A3=16=16=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2==99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99==A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3==E2=99=A3=10=10=10=10=10=10=10=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1==E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2==96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1SteVeJorvik ----- Original Message ----- SteVe Cook Rodmakers Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001= AM Karen, Is = down today, or is the river still as clear as mud SteVe ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C08EB3.B7FEE780-- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Feb 4 08:09:45 2001 f14E9ie14669 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:08:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Morgan mill --=====================_60416009==_.ALT Yep. The blanks and strips I throw out are due to shrinkage after wet planing and heat treating. You can't avoid a glue line when there is not enough cane in that spot. I have been throwing these ones out or experimenting on them with wrap colors, etc.... Every time I fish a rod that is a mess and I keep it, someone comes up and asks for a good look. That's why I don't do it anymore.Bob At 08:56 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Glued up a butt the other day off of a Bogart Taper, and I did get a glue line, however when I was planing the strips I didn't have enough height to the strips in the butt end of the butt and didn't get a good 61.5 degree angle. Had to attempt to correct in a wood planing form. Did pretty good, but still had a glue line. What the heck it's going to be a rod for me for the summer anyway. Just won't let anyone see it. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message -----From: Bob Maulucci saweiss@flash.net ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Morgan mill Hey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard enough, buddy. ;^)Bob At 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:I like them because the 61.5 almost eliminates the possibility of glue lines Joe Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_60416009==_.ALT Yep. The blanks and strips I throw out are due to shrinkage after wetplaning and heat treating. You can't avoid a glue line when there is notenough cane in that spot. I have been throwing these ones out orexperimenting on them with wrap colors, etc.... Every time I fish a rodthat is a mess and I keep it, someone comes up and asks for a good look.That's why I don't do it anymore. Bob At 08:56 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote:Glued up a butt the other day offof a Bogart Taper, and I did get a glue line, however when I was planingthe strips I didn't have enough height to the strips in the butt end of Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one hand http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Maulucci pest.com ; saweiss@flash.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Morgan mill Hey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard enough, buddy. ;^)Bob At 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: glue lines Joe Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_60416009==_.ALT-- from jtitone2@juno.com Sun Feb 4 08:52:22 2001 f14EqLe15615 09:51:26 EST Subject: The virus Not to belabor the point, but I still am unable to totally get rid of theEmmanuel virus that was accidentally sent through the list. I erased themessages that gave instructions on how to get rid of the virus. Pleaserepost the instructions to the list-I can't have it sent off list as thevirus is still located in my other e-mail server. Thanks, JPT.________________________________________________________________GET INTERNET ACCESS from JUNO!Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. from jerryy@webtv.net Sun Feb 4 10:43:44 2001 f14Ghhe16742 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA03815; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 08:43:44 - ETAsAhRyR4prUxiDpMvpssLIwRQzKL29YQIUTyYfdTOEDmCMk/4UCdbD/n+9oUI= Subject: Re: Morgan mill 2001 23:02:22 -0700 The debate of 60 vs. 61 1/2 degree cutters is interesting. I have beenusing 61 1/2 degree cutters for more than a year with out that problem.In the book "Wes Jordan - Profile of a rodmaker" he states"Pinky(Gillum) was a valuable asset to the shop as well as a pleasure to havearound. He had a terrific sense for what made a good casting rod. Hebuilt a milling machine like the one I designed for Orvis, but he hadthe cutters made exactly 60 degrees instead of slightly under to allow lines". JY from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Feb 4 11:09:17 2001 f14H9Fe17275 Subject: Re: rounded quads And I suspect that the rounded edges are made so that the wrapping threadisprotected a bit from abrasion against a sharp corner while the rod is inuse.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rounded quads close.They are definitely rounded compared to the Brandin. Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: I have always kept the sharp edges on the corners of my quads. I haveheardthat some (including Edwards, I believe) rounded off the edges. Doesanyoneknow how they did this? Who else rounds the edges?Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Feb 4 11:10:53 2001 f14HAde17454 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:10:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Grayling fishing Steve,You may have a virus !!!!!!!!!!!Please run a virus check before transmitting any further messages..Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Feb 4 11:37:53 2001 f14Hbqe18189 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:31:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Morgan mill I went with Tom's advice, as he's been in this business a long time, andworked at Winston's for years !GMA from emeiler@inetnebr.com Sun Feb 4 11:42:56 2001 f14Hgte18454 Subject: Leonard Taper Needed I have check the taper achieves and did not see it there. Does any one have the taper for the Leonard 9'9" 8/9wt Knight 99 rod? Cheers, Elmer ************************************************www.warmwaterflyfisher.com from the Float Tube of Elmer G. MeilerSomewhere on the Pond of OZWarm Water Fever Catch It!! (FFF)Also President of the Cornhusker Fly Fishers************************************************ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Feb 4 12:24:47 2001 f14IOke19255 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:18:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Morgan mill When you stop and think about it, any glue worth its salt will pull porousmaterial with it, upon failure. Our cane is certainly porous, and if the61-1/2 degree cutters leave a small amount of excess glue inside, but novisible joint, then it's a plus. I am thinking that the foaming action of the PU glues is an added advantagein that it will fill this void more completely. This gives a very strongjoint, yet much less danger of having a glue line show. There's nothing tosay that the other accepted types of glues don't give adequate strength,it's just that some of the PU types are much easier to use. GMA from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 4 13:57:37 2001 f14Jvae20831 Subject: revving up Hi pals,I am now busy machining cane and trying to get some rods out and to pickup where I left off about 2 or 3 years ago.In all the years I have been making rods I have never felt that I couldever give up a tool and die makers salary and work cane but I reallythink I could now, providing I can sell the product as quickly as itseems possible to make itI have been puting my beveller through its paces over the last 3 weeksand I just cannot believe it works so bloody well. The accuracy is farbetter than hand planing and the nodes are perfect evey time, Iincreased the feed and the thing actually runs better.I am more excited now than when Len Codella gave me a spot in hiscatalog because the cane market has grown since those days and I think Ican really take advantage of it by offering a super product for areasonable price and off the shelf.If I do decide to work with cane full time I may offer a confidentialservice to rodmakers who are back ordered and would like blanks made totheir specs.Signing off , regards, Terry from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Feb 4 14:37:33 2001 f14KbRe21651 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:36:32 -0500 Subject: Re: revving up Congratulations. I hope you make rods as nice as the Ackland I owned. Good luck.Bob At 03:04 PM 2/4/2001 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:Hi pals,I am now busy machining cane and trying to get some rods out and to pickup where I left off about 2 or 3 years ago.In all the years I have been making rods I have never felt that I couldever give up a tool and die makers salary and work cane but I reallythink I could now, providing I can sell the product as quickly as itseems possible to make itI have been puting my beveller through its paces over the last 3 weeksand I just cannot believe it works so bloody well. The accuracy is farbetter than hand planing and the nodes are perfect evey time, Iincreased the feed and the thing actually runs better.I am more excited now than when Len Codella gave me a spot in hiscatalog because the cane market has grown since those days and I think Ican really take advantage of it by offering a super product for areasonable price and off the shelf.If I do decide to work with cane full time I may offer a confidentialservice to rodmakers who are back ordered and would like blanks made totheir specs.Signing off , regards, Terry Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 4 14:41:31 2001 f14KfUe21862 Subject: Re: Morgan mill I would like to comment on one thing with the PU glues. Probond recommendsa light coat. Well, I speak from experience on this one. I lathered somestrips up and bound them. The foaming of the Probond forced one joint openand gave me a glue line. I had bound the strips up prior to gluing becauseI wasn't going to glue for a few days, and there were no glue lines orvisible areas where a glue line could be in this first binding (dry ofcourse). The ProBond can and will force out if you have too much of it. And, it willcreate a glue line. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker When you stop and think about it, any glue worth its salt will pull porousmaterial with it, upon failure. Our cane is certainly porous, and if the61-1/2 degree cutters leave a small amount of excess glue inside, but novisible joint, then it's a plus. I am thinking that the foaming action of the PU glues is an addedadvantagein that it will fill this void more completely. This gives a very strongjoint, yet much less danger of having a glue line show. There's nothing tosay that the other accepted types of glues don't give adequate strength,it's just that some of the PU types are much easier to use. GMA from Oozakgpt@aol.com Sun Feb 4 14:43:41 2001 f14Khee22112 Subject: Ferrule drop off --part1_7e.106e34cd.27af18f2_boundary I'm building a Leonard 39 DH and there appears to be a .015 drop between my tip and butt sections. I'm going to use a stepdown ferrule but I'm wondering how to pick the correct size ferrule. Diameter of tip of ferrule station 0.183. Diameter of butt at ferrule station 0.198. The rod calls for a 13/64 ferrule so the difference for a 13/64 ferrule and the tip would be (.203- .183)= 0.02. Seems like alot to me. Sorry for the bandwith,Greg T. Are the Stepdown ferrules diamentionally different? --part1_7e.106e34cd.27af18f2_boundary I'm building a Leonard 39DH and there appears to be a .015 drop between my wondering station calls for a 13/64 ferrule so the difference for a 13/64 ferrule and the tip would be Are the Stepdown ferrules diamentionally different? --part1_7e.106e34cd.27af18f2_boundary-- from jojo@ipa.net Sun Feb 4 15:44:20 2001 f14LiJe23286 Subject: Re: rounded quads Bob, Well, I suppose it would make a difference as to how much one rounded thecorners, but to do so to any great extent will have negated the advantage ofhaving made the rod a quad in the first place. M-D I have always kept the sharp edges on the corners of my quads. I haveheardthat some (including Edwards, I believe) rounded off the edges. Doesanyoneknow how they did this? Who else rounds the edges?Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci from Canerods@aol.com Sun Feb 4 16:00:49 2001 f14M0me23753 Subject: David Koshuba? --part1_5b.117508b1.27af2b06_boundary David, David if you are on the list can you email me. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com --part1_5b.117508b1.27af2b06_boundary David, David if you are on the list can you email me. Don Burnscanerods@aol.com --part1_5b.117508b1.27af2b06_boundary-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Feb 4 17:04:00 2001 f14N3xe25134 2001 15:03:51 PST Subject: Re: rounded quads no, it would still be a quad but with eight sides.maybe "double quad construction"? :-) timothy --- Jojo DeLancier wrote:Bob, Well, I suppose it would make a difference as to howmuch one rounded thecorners, but to do so to any great extent will havenegated the advantage ofhaving made the rod a quad in the first place. M-D I have always kept the sharp edges on the cornersof my quads. I haveheardthat some (including Edwards, I believe) roundedoff the edges. Doesanyoneknow how they did this? Who else rounds the edges?Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from ctn45555@centurytel.net Sun Feb 4 17:06:02 2001 f14N61e25348 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation I have split strips for a 7 foot rod and am trying to decide between the WC 7'#4(Sir D) and the Payne 98. Perhaps some of you have built these 2 tapers andcantell me what the functional difference is between them? Thanks very much for the help, Chad S. Boyd Tony Young wrote: Try either the WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98. If you think the kids willdevelop into para lovers try the Driggs River Special. Tony At 09:48 PM 2/2/01 -0600, Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids- only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll get spoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this will be their first cane rod it will be akeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nice taper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Feb 4 17:21:39 2001 f14NLce25759 Subject: heat guns(again) Howdy all, I recently got custody of a Snap-On brand heat gun. Variable adjustment from 130 to 1000*, is it suitable for use in the straightening process. I know it will work for an air oven, but wasn't sure about the other. ANy thoughts? TIAJim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 4 17:30:38 2001 f14NUbe26048 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:32:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation Don't know about the 98 but can sure vouch for the Sir D. Have made 11 ofthem.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Amy & Chad wrote: I have split strips for a 7 foot rod and am trying to decide between the WC7' #4(Sir D) and the Payne 98. Perhaps some of you have built these 2 tapersand cantell me what the functional difference is between them? Thanks very much for the help, Chad S. Boyd Tony Young wrote: Try either the WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98. If you think the kids willdevelop into para lovers try the Driggs River Special. Tony At 09:48 PM 2/2/01 -0600, Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids- only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll get spoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this will be their first cane rod it will be akeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nice taper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Feb 4 17:35:22 2001 f14NZLe26304 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation They are both great tapers. The 98 has a more flexible (softer) tip. the Sir D. Marty I have split strips for a 7 foot rod and am trying to decide between the WC7' #4(Sir D) and the Payne 98. Perhaps some of you have built these 2 tapersand cantell me what the functional difference is between them? Thanks very much for the help, Chad S. Boyd Tony Young wrote: Try either the WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98. If you think the kids willdevelop into para lovers try the Driggs River Special. Tony At 09:48 PM 2/2/01 -0600, Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids- only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll get spoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this will be their first cane rod it will be akeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nice taper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Feb 4 17:39:54 2001 f14Ndse26563 +0100 Subject: Was Morgan mill, now PU f14Ndse26564 Using PU You have to bind the strips VERY tight,then glue lines are avoided. Couple of times I forgot, and had glue lines:-((( regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Morgan mill I would like to comment on one thing with the PU glues. Probondrecommendsa light coat. Well, I speak from experience on this one. I lathered somestrips up and bound them. The foaming of the Probond forced one jointopenand gave me a glue line. I had bound the strips up prior to gluing becauseI wasn't going to glue for a few days, and there were no glue lines orvisible areas where a glue line could be in this first binding (dry ofcourse). The ProBond can and will force out if you have too much of it. And, it willcreate a glue line. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker When you stop and think about it, any glue worth its salt will pull porousmaterial with it, upon failure. Our cane is certainly porous, and if the61-1/2 degree cutters leave a small amount of excess glue inside, but novisible joint, then it's a plus. I am thinking that the foaming action of the PU glues is an addedadvantagein that it will fill this void more completely. This gives a very strongjoint, yet much less danger of having a glue line show. There's nothing tosay that the other accepted types of glues don't give adequate strength,it's just that some of the PU types are much easier to use. GMA from homessold@email.msn.com Sun Feb 4 18:19:14 2001 f150JDe27368 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:19:07 -0800 Subject: get rid of the emmanual virus FILETIME=[415CC3D0:01C08F09] JPT, Go to www.antivirus.com, click free virus scan, click scan withoutregistering or put in your email address and click submit, it will downloadthe scan pgm which will take a few minutes, select the disk you want toscan, check auto fix, click scan. When it is finished, which takes a whilebecause it is checking every file on your hard drive, it will say done andyou are clean or it may have a couple of files it couldn't auto clean. Ifthat is the case, just erase the remaining files. I had two files at theend. Don't worry about the files it says it can't open.Good luckDon from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Feb 4 19:53:11 2001 f151rAe29909 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:53:11 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Ferrule drop off --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963488=_=_=_ Greg If you think about it a bit - it makes perfect sense - pick the ferrulesize for the butt side. With a step down you need to take off material on the male side (tip) . with astep down taper - you do notneed to take off as much to fit and you maintain strength. Otherwise youneed to cut down on the butt side and create a problem where there isn't one. Chris --Original Message Text--- I'm building a Leonard 39 DH and there appears to be a .015 drop between my tip and butt sections. I'm going to use a stepdown ferrule but I'm wondering how to pick the correct size ferrule. Diameter of tip of ferrule station 0.183. Diameter of butt at ferrule station 0.198. The rod calls for a 13/64 ferrule so the difference for a 13/64 ferrule and the tip would be (.203- .183)= 0.02. Seems like alot to me. Sorry for the bandwith,Greg T. Are the Stepdown ferrules diamentionally different? --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963488=_=_=_ Greg If you think about it a bit - it makes perfect sense - pick the ferrule size With a step down you need to take off material on the male side (tip) . with astep down taper - you do notneed to take off as much to fit and you maintain strength. Otherwise youneed to cut down on the butt side and create a problem where there isn't one. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Oozakgpt@aol.comDate: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:43:30 EST I'm building a Leonard 39 DH and there appears to be a .015drop between my tip and butt sections. I'm going to use a stepdown ferrule but I'm wondering how to pick the correct size ferrule. Diameter of tip of ferrule station 0.183. Diameter of butt at ferrule station 0.198. The rod calls for a 13/64 ferrule so the difference for a 13/64 ferrule and the tip would be (.203- .183)= 0.02. Seems like alot to me. Sorry for the bandwith,Greg T. Are the Stepdown ferrules diamentionally different? --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963488=_=_=_-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Feb 4 20:32:18 2001 f152WGe00724 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:32:12 +0800 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:32:10 +0800 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation I've made a few Driggs but have only ever cast two Payne 98's made by twodifferent makers.The Driggs is a para which has all the advantages therein as well asproblems if you aren't into paras though it's a great taper if you are. Ithas a nice quality in that it's just as good to fish with midge patterns aswith large patterns and does handle half decent fish pretty well though itmay not feel that way at the time having the rod bend to the handle as itdoes.The Payne 98 is a very nice regular type of taper that feels smooth to castand simply nice to use. If you're uncertain about a para try this one. Tony At 02:37 PM 2/4/01 -0800, Amy & Chad wrote:I have split strips for a 7 foot rod and am trying to decide between theWC 7' #4(Sir D) and the Payne 98. Perhaps some of you have built these 2 tapersand cantell me what the functional difference is between them? Thanks very much for the help, Chad S. Boyd Tony Young wrote: Try either the WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98. If you think the kids willdevelop into para lovers try the Driggs River Special. Tony At 09:48 PM 2/2/01 -0600, Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids- only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll getspoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this will be their first cane rod itwill be akeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nice taper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Feb 4 20:43:03 2001 f152gse01162 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:42:54 +0800 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:42:53 +0800 Subject: Re: Taper Recommendation Sorry, got carried away with the Driggs.The Sir D and Payne 98 are not that different in some ways but the Payne98feels less supple in the mid section and feels like the energy is deliveredright at the tip. Even though I really like PHY style rods I liked the 98'senough to make me want one. The Sir D has an almost *very slight* para feel to me in the mid sectionand WC has writen it's taper is sort of loosely based on a para. It's agreat little rod to use. Actually, toss a coin. Tony At 02:37 PM 2/4/01 -0800, Amy & Chad wrote:I have split strips for a 7 foot rod and am trying to decide between theWC 7' #4(Sir D) and the Payne 98. Perhaps some of you have built these 2 tapersand cantell me what the functional difference is between them? Thanks very much for the help, Chad S. Boyd Tony Young wrote: Try either the WC 7' #4 (Sir D) or a Payne 98. If you think the kids willdevelop into para lovers try the Driggs River Special. Tony At 09:48 PM 2/2/01 -0600, Mark Evans wrote: I'd appreciate some recommendations for a taper for my sons. We want to build rods for Dry Run Creek in Arkansas. Dry Run is aC&R kids- only creek that's about 20 ft. wide with overhangingtrees that holds lunker trout (why it's kids only). They'll getspoiled ona few 18" - 23" trout each time we go. We'd like to build about a 7 - 7 1/2 foot rod that handle small flysand these larger fish. Since this will be their first cane rod itwill be akeep-sake for them and I'd like to use a really nice taper. Your adviceis much appreciated. TIA,Mark ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Feb 4 20:46:58 2001 f152kve01416 Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:46:51 -0800 Subject: Re: heat guns(again) Jim,The SnapOn Heat gun should work fine. If you can find a rectangulardiffuser, it will make things a little simpler. I use a cheap-o Wagnerheat gun and had to make, well at least jury-rig, the diffuser for mine. The diffuser allows you to heat the entire node without moving the rodlaterally, thus making things simpler. I sure wish someone had a source Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: I recently got custody of a Snap-On brand heat gun. Variableadjustment from 130 to 1000*, is it suitable for use in thestraightening process. I know it will work for an air oven, but wasn'tsure about the other. ANy thoughts? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Feb 4 21:26:49 2001 f153Qme02408 (63.228.47.78) " " Subject: Re: Morgan mill I did the same--- accuracy on the finished glue up is great. better than Iever did on the planing form.61.5 for me as well as 92 for quads.Dave Norling----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: Morgan mill I went with Tom's advice, as he's been in this business a long time, andworked at Winston's for years !GMA from caneman@clnk.com Sun Feb 4 21:44:13 2001 f153iCe02926 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Nunley" , Subject: Re: Morgan mill This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04B6_01C08EF3.24B4CE00 Joe,Don't you know that everyone on the river will want to see the rod =that you don't want any of them to see... I think that's a law covered = Oh $#!+ !!! Must be, cause it always happens... :^) Bob-----Original Message-----From: Bamboo Joe saweiss@flash.net ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Sunday, February 04, 2001 8:00 AMSubject: Re: Morgan mill Glued up a butt the other day off of a Bogart Taper, and I did get a =glue line, however when I was planing the strips I didn't have enough =height to the strips in the butt end of the butt and didn't get a good =61.5 degree angle. Had to attempt to correct in a wood planing form. =Did pretty good, but still had a glue line. What the heck it's going to =be a rod for me for the summer anyway. Just won't let anyone see it. Joe ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DLost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one = and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". = Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Morgan mill Hey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard enough, buddy. ;^)Bob At 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: I like them because the 61.5 almost eliminates the =possibility of glue lines Joe Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_04B6_01C08EF3.24B4CE00 Joe, know = on the river will want to see the rod that you don't want any of them to = I think that's a law covered by The Uniform Code of Rodmakers Justice... = :^) Bob -----Original = Bamboo Joe <jcbyrd@direct- <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, February 04, 2001 8:00 AMSubject: Re: millGlued up a butt the other day off of a Bogart = did get a glue line, however when I was planing the strips I didn't = enough height to the strips in the butt end of the butt and didn't = anyone see it. Joe ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one hand and a cigar = pest.com/r= ----- Original Message ----- = Maulucci Sent: Sunday, February = 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Morgan =millHey Joe:You are obviously not trying hard = buddy. ;^)BobAt 08:10 AM 2/4/2001 -0500, Bamboo wrote: almost eliminates the possibility of glue = =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhttp://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 = cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_04B6_01C08EF3.24B4CE00-- from channer1@rmi.net Sun Feb 4 21:57:46 2001 f153vje03373 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Morgan mill Bob;I just tell people that I can't afford to keep the good ones, just the"factory seconds"John from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 4 23:15:26 2001 f155FPe05177 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: rounded quads --------------8C2C820AC53002DAE21DC0FE I believe the severe rounding of the edges of the Edwards Quads was forcosmetic purposes. Sanding that much probably allowed them to avoid theless severe grain run-out and glue lines.John Z timothy troester wrote: no, it would still be a quad but with eight sides.maybe "double quad construction"? :-) timothy --------------8C2C820AC53002DAE21DC0FE I believe the severe rounding of the edges of the Edwards Quads was forcosmetic purposes. Sanding that much probably allowed them to avoid theless severe grain run-out and glue lines.John Ztimothy troester wrote:no, it would still be a quad but with eight sides. --------------8C2C820AC53002DAE21DC0FE-- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Feb 5 01:22:28 2001 f157MRe08488 hme0.telusplanet.net Mon, 5 Feb 2001 00:22:21 -0700 Subject: Re: revving up Terry, You kinda remind me of a big brown dog that used to make a regular visit tothe local playground where he took a large dump, sniffed @ a few of theswing sets, japped at the kids and then just wandered away. Tired to change his behavior by doing the Politically correct thing andreasoning with him - didn't help, yelling & beating him didn't do it -finally heard he got run over. No more dumping or yapping. Terry maybe you should listen for rapid acceleration. catch ya' Don At 03:04 PM 2/4/01 -0500, T. Ackland wrote:Hi pals,I am now busy machining cane and trying to get some rods out and to pickup where I left off about 2 or 3 years ago.In all the years I have been making rods I have never felt that I couldever give up a tool and die makers salary and work cane but I reallythink I could now, providing I can sell the product as quickly as itseems possible to make itI have been puting my beveller through its paces over the last 3 weeksand I just cannot believe it works so bloody well. The accuracy is farbetter than hand planing and the nodes are perfect evey time, Iincreased the feed and the thing actually runs better.I am more excited now than when Len Codella gave me a spot in hiscatalog because the cane market has grown since those days and I think Ican really take advantage of it by offering a super product for areasonable price and off the shelf.If I do decide to work with cane full time I may offer a confidentialservice to rodmakers who are back ordered and would like blanks made totheir specs.Signing off , regards, Terry from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Mon Feb 5 02:48:59 2001 f158mwe09275 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Subject: Ferrule Size Hi list, maybe this is a stupid question - so forgive for asking it anyway. Howdo you determine the right size of ferrules? Right now I'm building aspinnig rod (No.30, 2 piece, 7 feet) for a friend with a taper fromClaude M. Kreider's book, which doesn't give me the ferrule sizes. Theend of the butt section measures .187 and the beginning of the tipsection measures .188. Is there some kind of math or rule to the ferrulesizes? Thanks in advance Ralf from Germany from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Feb 5 04:20:29 2001 f15AKSe10032 f15AKBW19818; Subject: Re: Morgan mill Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08FB8.0A39F9E0 Joe If you will forgive a half smart comment, it almost eliminates the =possibility of glue lines "that are visible from the outside of the =rod". Stay happy, Peter Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:10 AMSubject: Re: Morgan mill Steven: I purchased the 61.5 degree cutters with my Handmill. I like them =because the 61.5 almost eliminates the possibility of glue lines Joe ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". = Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:02 AMSubject: Morgan mill I'm re-opening an old thread here. I am considering buying the =Morgan Mill and I'd like to know what planing angle most people are =using. I am inclined to stick with the 60 degree rather than the 61 1/2, =because of the increased glue content when using the larger angle.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08FB8.0A39F9E0 Joe If you will forgive a half smart = almost eliminates the possibility of glue lines "that are visible from = outside of the rod". happy, Peter ----- Original Message ----- Joe Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001= AMSubject: Re: Morgan mill Steven: I purchased the 61.5 degree cutters with my = I like them because the 61.5 almost eliminates the possibility of glue = lines Joe ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one hand and a cigar in = pest.com/r= ----- Original Message ----- Weiss = Sent: Sunday, February 04, = AMSubject: Morgan mill I'm re-opening an old thread = considering buying the Morgan Mill and I'd like to know what planing = most people are using. I am inclined to stick with the 60 degree = the 61 1/2, because of the increased glue content when using the = angle.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08FB8.0A39F9E0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Feb 5 04:20:47 2001 f15AKje10062 f15AKWW19850; Subject: Re: Grayling fishing Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C08FB8.6D734840 No, steve, the damned things have absolutely NO sense of humour! It is =probably in collusion with my scanner and is plotting Armegeddon! Peter Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 1:06 AM Please disregard this message. My computer seems to have developed a =sense of humour and is now sending mail to the wrong addresses ==E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=96=90=E2=96=88=E2==96=80=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96==84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3==16=16=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99==A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3==E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=10==10=10=10=10=10=10=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2==96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96==A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1 SteVe Jorvik Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:13 AM Karen, Is it worth coming down today, or is the river still as clear as mud SteVe ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C08FB8.6D734840 No, steve, the damned things have= sense of humour! It is probably in collusion with my scanner and is = Armegeddon! Peter ----- Original Message ----- SteVe Cook =; Rodmakers Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001= AMSubject: Re: Grayling fishing = Please = message. My computer seems to have developed a sense of humour and is= addresses=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=99=A0=E2=96=90=E2==96=88=E2=96=80=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96==84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=96=84=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3==E2=99=A3=16=16=E2=99=A5=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99==A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3==E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2=99=A3=E2==99=A3=10=10=10=10=10=10=10=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2==96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96==A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1=E2=96=A1SteVeJorvik SteVeCook Rodmakers Sent: Sunday, February 04,2001 = AM Karen, Is = coming down today, or is the river still as clear as =mud SteVe ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C08FB8.6D734840-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Feb 5 04:50:29 2001 f15AoSe10698 f15AoKW23941; Subject: Re: polyurethane glue Organization: vet Hello Larry Yes, I have a trap gun that I refinished years ago with hand rubbed boiledlinseed oil. I think that if I had known how much trouble it was going to beImay well have missed it out of my life agenda, but now, 25 years later, itlooks unbelievably good.Mind you, that represents 25 years of rubbing in theoil every time it gets wet when out shooting.(In fact, getting the damn PU off in the first place was about the worst.) That's why I thought this rod would do OK with tung oil. I am never reallyin the position of having to leave my rod unattended after use, and I canalways wipe it dry. As a finish, it certainly looks nice. I have a Stephen Grant London sidelockmade in the early part of the 20th century, browned damascus barrels, bestEnglish rose and scroll engraving, which still sports its original linseedoil finish. It spots up some when I get a shower of rain on it, but a fewminutes rubbing and it's back to original. And I still am living the "other life" - shoot about once a month; rabbits,quail, duck. When this life finishes, please don't make me live the otherone, OK? Great to hear from you again, Larry; your advice on the steel planing formswas spot on. Thanks. They are working beautifully. Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: polyurethane glue Peter; I've been tempted to post this to the list once or twice, but Ijustdon't want to deal with the flak. I've played around a bit with firearmsinone of my other lives. As you may know, an oil finish is the finish ofchoice for fine gunstocks. I have a book written by Roy Dunlap. Dunlap is the Payne/Garrison ofcustomrifle stocks. Custom rifle or shotgun stocks make bamboo fly rods seemreasonably priced. Just a single blank of exhibition quality walnut willpay In his section on finishes, he goes into great detail about the need tofinish the inside of the stock, and the area behind the butt plate. Hementions sending stocks off to low humidity areas in the US, and having itshrink under the butt plate until the steel of the butt plate was actuallysticking out past the butt of the stock, or sending stocks to highhumidityareas with the opposite result. The finish he used for these areas, as well as the external surfaces wasnothing more than the tung or linseed oil based finish we "can't use". Hiscomment concerning oil finishes in general states that properly applied,youhave a finish that only a fire can remove. In short... if it will work on a gunstock, why do we worry so much? Withwaterproof glue, the glue certainly is no issue. I do know that we areconcerned with the rod taking in moisture, and "softening". Consider thattoa rifle stock, the same thing leads to nastiness like the wood "moving"andputting pressure on the barrel, with a resulting change in accuracy orpointof impact. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 4:26 AM Subject: Re: polyurethane glue So far on the butt I have only final sanded and given onesealing coat of Tung oil. It looks fantastic - in fact I am very temptedto fly in the face of accepted wisdom and just finish it with Tung oilandnothing else. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Feb 5 05:05:17 2001 f15B5Fe10988 f15B53W25915; Subject: Re: Ferrule Size Organization: vet Ralf The half diameter that you actually plane, doubled, will give you theeffective diameter of the blank at the point you are fitting the ferrule.That, expressed in 64th's is the size of the required ferrule. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule Size Hi list, maybe this is a stupid question - so forgive for asking it anyway. Howdo you determine the right size of ferrules? Right now I'm building aspinnig rod (No.30, 2 piece, 7 feet) for a friend with a taper fromClaude M. Kreider's book, which doesn't give me the ferrule sizes. Theend of the butt section measures .187 and the beginning of the tipsection measures .188. Is there some kind of math or rule to the ferrulesizes? Thanks in advance Ralf from Germany from jonandkris@rcn.com Mon Feb 5 06:23:31 2001 f15CNUe11757 ([208.58.250.142] helo=kj) Subject: remove from list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C08F44.83CBE620 remove ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C08F44.83CBE620 name="Jon And Kris Vermilyea.vcf" filename="Jon And Kris Vermilyea.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Vermilyea;Jon And KrisFN:Jon And Kris VermilyeaADR;HOME:;;P.O. Box 16512;Stamford;Ct;06905LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box16512=0D=0AStamford, Ct 06905EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jonandkris@rcn.comREV:20010205T122319ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C08F44.83CBE620-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Feb 5 07:06:57 2001 f15D6ve12240 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:04:14 -0600 Subject: Re: heat guns(again) Harry, I called Wagner, and spoke to a nice little lady in their servicedept.. The defuser was $1.34 ! When I asked how I could order, and pay forit, her reply was, "What's your address, I'll send you one"! Nice people ! Ionly had to give her the model numberGMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Feb 5 07:21:38 2001 f15DLbe12582 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:18:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Size What that means is .187/.188 =3/16"=12/64" for your ferrule size.GMA from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Feb 5 08:43:09 2001 f15Eh4e14752 Subject: bent out of shape This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C08F3E.E0C31700 Naturally I had to make the same mistake more than once to be certain it =was true, but now I'm satisfied. Don't glue up five heat treated strips =with one non-heat treated strip, it'll result in a bowed rod section =every time. How come it takes me so long to learn the simple things?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C08F3E.E0C31700 Naturally I had to make the same = once to be certain it was true, but now I'm satisfied. Don't glue up = treated strips with one non-heat treated strip, it'll result in a bowed = things?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C08F3E.E0C31700-- from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 5 11:34:31 2001 f15HYUe22965 "rod 'akers" , jczimny@dol.netSubject: Re: rounded quads Hi John,It was nice seeing you again ot the show. I have three Edwards quadsand one of them is more rounded than the other two. I don't know ifthat one is older or not. It was broken at the butt and was splicedand must have been redone when it was brought back in. It hasn't beenfished sense it was repaired. The finish is a work of art. The glueline was much worse on this than the others and easy to see because ofthe black (resor) glue. I thought the rounding did that but maybe itwas that this is a Model #30 and the other are Model #40's....Rich "J. C. Zimny" wrote: I believe the severe rounding of the edges of the Edwards Quads was avoid the less severe grain run-out and glue lines.John Z timothy troester wrote: no, it would still be a quad but with eight sides.maybe "double quad construction"? :-) timothy from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Feb 5 17:40:01 2001 f15Ne0e06813 Subject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from goodaple@tcac.net Mon Feb 5 17:41:12 2001 f15NfCe06941 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Revving Up Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C08F9B.4AD12FE0 Terry, Thanks for your offer of confidential service. Don't wait on my =call just go ahead with what you're doing. Randall G. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C08F9B.4AD12FE0 Terry, Thanks for your offer of = service. Don't wait on my call just go ahead with what you're doing. = G. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C08F9B.4AD12FE0-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Feb 5 17:46:36 2001 f15NkZe07330 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:46:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect f15Nkae07331 I've got an early #35 Lt. that's full length, but it's possible this rod wasnever actually fished so that doesn't really help you. I have refinishedanother later #35 that was full length, however I have seen a #14 and a #20broke at the point you specify. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu reed curry 02/05/01 03:44PM >>>Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Mon Feb 5 17:52:03 2001 f15Nq2e07616 Subject: Re: heat guns(again) Sears sells a fishtail attachment, and others, though don't know what allmight, or might not be fit; and, yes, I own Sears so I do have a vestedinterest.M-D Jim,The SnapOn Heat gun should work fine. If you can find a rectangulardiffuser, it will make things a little simpler. I use a cheap-o Wagnerheat gun and had to make, well at least jury-rig, the diffuser for mine. The diffuser allows you to heat the entire node without moving the rodlaterally, thus making things simpler. I sure wish someone had a source Harry Jim Flinchbaugh wrote: I recently got custody of a Snap-On brand heat gun. Variableadjustment from 130 to 1000*, is it suitable for use in thestraightening process. I know it will work for an air oven, but wasn'tsure about the other. ANy thoughts? from piscator@macatawa.org Mon Feb 5 18:08:47 2001 f1608le08185 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect I broke a new (unfished) 9', 2.5F, #14 there after fishing it for big trouton streamers for just one season. Gotta fix that one of these days. Brian from lblan@provide.net Mon Feb 5 18:45:09 2001 f160j8e09016 Subject: RE: heat guns(again) Something I've wanted to try and haven't is a deflector. I know I've seenthem, but don't recall who made them. These are made for shrinking heatshrink tubing, thawing pipes, or any other "round" application. Theattachment fits over the nozzle and turns back on itself, preventing theheat from blowing past an object placed inside the deflector. Looks a bitlike a question mark ? but with the lower portion bent to keep thesemi-circular portion centered on the nozzle. The width is similar to adiffuser. These work real well at keeping the heat on the object. I have acouple for my small butane catalytic torch, but not for my heat gun. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:14 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: heat guns(again) Harry, I called Wagner, and spoke to a nice little lady in their servicedept.. The defuser was $1.34 ! When I asked how I could order, and pay forit, her reply was, "What's your address, I'll send you one"! Nicepeople ! Ionly had to give her the model numberGMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Feb 5 19:21:41 2001 f161Lee09867 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:21:38 -0800 Subject: Re: heat guns(again) Larry,I tried one for a while, and found that the opening was small enough thatthe crooked pieces of cane were constantly banging into the deflector as Iturned them. After the deflector got good and hot, it left a burn mark eachtime I touched the cane to it. If you try it, get one that's pretty good size.Most electrical supply houses carry them in various sizes. And George, if that's the same diffuser I got with my heat gun, it's about1/8 the size you need. Make sure the opening is at least 2" x 3/4". Harry Larry Blan wrote: Something I've wanted to try and haven't is a deflector. I know I've seenthem, but don't recall who made them. These are made for shrinking heatshrink tubing, thawing pipes, or any other "round" application. Harry, I called Wagner, and spoke to a nice little lady in their servicedept.. The defuser was $1.34 ! When I asked how I could order, and payforit, her reply was, "What's your address, I'll send you one"! Nice people -- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Feb 5 19:22:20 2001 f161MJe09948 Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at just thatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Feb 5 19:48:45 2001 f161mie10675 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:33:20 -0600 Subject: Re: heat guns(again) Actually what I was speaking of to Harry, was a flare nozzle, that just fitsover the end, and lets you cover an entire node area easier.GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Feb 5 19:50:54 2001 f161ore10860 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:35:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect There's a man in the Dallas area, by the name of Huff, I think, who has aperfect #35, President, and Black Beauty ! They look to be unfished !GMA from djk762@earthlink.net Mon Feb 5 20:15:54 2001 f162Fre11585 SAA20928 mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" I have a #35 from 1930 (says Sinclair's Book) 3x3 nodes,throws a 6dtbeautifully-full length 9' , and fished hard. Varnish sticky. -David Kashuba. from Kengorific@aol.com Mon Feb 5 20:18:07 2001 f162I6e11754 Subject: (no subject) I would like to know more about the Morgan Hand Mill, so a few questions for anyone that might have 'hands on' experience with one. I did find a web site with some info and an image of the mill, but I still have some questions... How does the mill hold the raw strip, since the cutter planes both sides of the pith at the same time I don't see how the strip is held in place. I assume the enamal side is glued or clamped in some way. The cutter head, is it a single piece with a vee notch, or two seperate blades each at it's own angle. Can you sharpen the cutting head ? If the cutting head is a single vee notch I would think it would not be very easy to hone with standard stones, yet if the cutters are two seperate pieces it seems difficult to keep the fine tolerance required between two blades. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 5 21:03:53 2001 f1633re13012 Subject: Re: (no subject) Check out Tom's web site- http://www.troutrods.com I'm sure he has some pictures of his hand mill. He also has a very good brochure with color pictures. Get his brochure. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Mon Feb 5 21:11:19 2001 f163BIe13323 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 22:09:40 -0500 Subject: Re: (no subject) The Hand Mill works by cutting away at the bamboo that is held on top of a plastic anvil. The bamboo is screwed into the anvil, pith side up. The plane, with two cutters set at a 60* (or whatever) angle, cut each side of the strip at once. They move over the strip in a sort of inverted V. The roundness of the enamel sits firmly on the top of the radiused 15/16 plastic anvil. http://www.troutrods.com/handmill.htmlThe cutter heads hold triangular carbide inserts. Look in a machinists catalog for a good look. You don't need to sharpen the cutters at $12 a set. They are rather cheap. This is a big selling point for me. No sharpening. You can rotate, and swap the cutter inserts side by side to get a total of 6 edges with which to cut away. In short, they last several rods. I get about 5 rods out of them before I give up and chuck them. Others get more, but I figure why push it.Look at the Hand Mill accessory page. The cutter pics will make sense. http://www.troutrods.com/accessories.htmlIf not, I would be glad to post some pics. I love my Hand Mill, and I would not go back to the planing form again. Better than a beveller and forms? No, just different. And quieter. Does it mean anyone can build a nice rod with this tool. No. The operator stills needs skill and a knowledge of the materials. Does it make building more pleasurable? Yes. Do quad and penta options make it unbelievable? Yes. Could you ask for a kinder, more open, or more brilliant guy than Tom to buy stuff from? No. I can't tell you how great the service is from them. OK, I am done ranting. Best regards,Bob 09:17 PM 2/5/2001 -0500, you wrote:I would like to know more about the Morgan Hand Mill, so a few questions foranyone that might have 'hands on' experience with one. I did find a web sitewith some info and an image of the mill, but I still have some questions... How does the mill hold the raw strip, since the cutter planes both sides ofthe pith at the same time I don't see how the strip is held in place. Iassume the enamal side is glued or clamped in some way. The cutter head, is it a single piece with a vee notch, or two seperateblades each at it's own angle. Can you sharpen the cutting head ? If thecutting head is a single vee notch I would think it would not be very easy tohone with standard stones, yet if the cutters are two seperate pieces itseems difficult to keep the fine tolerance required between two blades. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Mon Feb 5 21:12:02 2001 f163C1e13445 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect Reed, Believe I have one. Chuck from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Mon Feb 5 21:52:33 2001 f163qWe14445 Subject: Re: bent out of shape How come it takes me so long to learn the simplethings? Ray you may have been infected with Arundinaria amabilis aphobia, :-) Jim (sorry Ray, couldnt resist) PS Are you gonna go to The Troutdale gathering? was hoping to meet you in person Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from SBDunn@aol.com Mon Feb 5 21:55:12 2001 f163tBe14618 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect --part1_e6.110f8be1.27b0cf91_boundary My #35 is not broken in the mid, and has been fished hard. I have a #14 and #17 that have the break you are talking about, but I also have another #14 and #17 that do not, as well as a #10, #50, & # 60 that do not. To be fair the #50 & #60 have not been fished much, but the #10 was down rightabused. I have a similar (sort of) question. I notice that within a few weeks of receiving an old rod, I often have wraps deteriorate. It's dry up here in the Utah desert. Could that be causing it? Regards, Steve. --part1_e6.110f8be1.27b0cf91_boundary My #35 is not broken in #17 that have the break you are talking about, but I also have another#14 and #17 that do not, as well as a #10, #50, & # 60 that do not. the #50 & #60 have not been fished much, but the #10 was downright abused. weeks of here in Regards, Steve. --part1_e6.110f8be1.27b0cf91_boundary-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Feb 5 22:08:38 2001 f1648be15151 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:08:35 -0800 "Huff, Ron" Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect George,Do you mean my friend Ron Huff? He's a sometime member of this list... Harry nobler wrote: There's a man in the Dallas area, by the name of Huff, I think, who has aperfect #35, President, and Black Beauty ! They look to be unfished !GMA --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Feb 5 22:09:54 2001 f1649re15290 Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:07:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect Reed,I've got a #125 2f on the bench now. Broken just as youdescribe, plus about 10 inches. Harry SBDunn@aol.com wrote: My #35 is not broken in the mid, and has been fishedhard. I have a #14 and#17 that have the break you are talking about, but I alsohave another #14and #17 that do not, as well as a #10, #50, & # 60 that donot. To be fairthe #50 & #60 have not been fished much, but the #10 wasdown right abused. I have a similar (sort of) question. I notice that withina few weeks ofreceiving an old rod, I often have wraps deteriorate.It's dry up here inthe Utah desert. Could that be causing it? Regards, Steve. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Feb 5 22:30:19 2001 f164UIe16194 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect I have a L&C 2 1/2 F, (#35) a #10 2 1/2 F and a Folsum 16-15 2F all 9'.None of them have this problem all of them were badly abused. The L&C hada lose ferrule on the top mid. I think that if I hadn't re set and repinned it It would have broken by now. -Doug At 10:54 PM 2/5/01 EST, SBDunn@aol.com wrote: arialMy #35 is notbroken inthe mid, and has been fished hard. I have a #14 and #17 that have the break you are talking about, but I also have another#14 and #17 that do not, as well as a #10, #50, & # 60 that do not. To befair the #50 & #60 have not been fished much, but the #10 was down rightabused. I have a similar (sort of) question. I notice that within a few weeks of receiving an old rod, I often have wraps deteriorate. It's dry up herein the Utah desert. Could that be causing it? Regards, Steve. arial Doug Easton Tonawanda, NY from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Tue Feb 6 04:34:102001 f16AY9e21470 helo=default) Subject: origins of cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C09029.F006A4C0 Hello chaps, I will be presenting an 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming =UK rodmakers gathering and hope that you guys might be able to help me =with some research. I would like to know more about two individuals who seem to be the =first split cane rodmakers,Samuel Phillippe of Pennsylvania and William Blacker of London. As far =as I can tell these seem to be the first commercial split cane =manufacturers circa 1850. Does anyone out there have any information or=clues as to books that can provide evidence of the origins of split cane =fishing rods? Are there any references to earlier builders? I wonder if any of you builders in North America know of any other =builders of the period and how the fledgling tackle trade fared during =the U.S. civil war? It seems that the whole split cane idea was lifted from the orient, =I have found references to carrying 'yokes' of split cane. Does anyone =have any information that they would be willing to share as to early =uses of cane possibly not in the angling trade? Any references out =there as to who in colonial times brought the idea back to the U.S. and =to Europe? And of course for a little fun on what side of the Atlantic =do we find the first split cane fishing rod? I suspect this may prove =to be a moot point, do I mean a top section of split cane or a full rod? =Does it have to be produced commercially? I do not know! I'd like to =thank you in advance for any light that you may be able to shed on the =roots of our silly pastime.Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2 SHROPSHIRECONTACT:paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C09029.F006A4C0 Hello chaps, 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and = you guys might be able to help me with some research. = rodmakers, any information or clues as to books that can provide evidence of the = builders? any = builders in North America know of any other builders of the period and = fledgling tackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? the = cane idea was lifted from the orient, I have found references to = this may prove to be a moot point, do I mean a top section of split cane = to shed on the roots of our silly pastime.Tight =Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEETAUG.31SEP.1&2 = SHROPSHIRECONTACT: paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@beccles=workshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C09029.F006A4C0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Feb 6 05:24:27 2001 f16BOQe21966 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect Hi Reed, I have had an 8'3/2 #35 that was full length. Only problemswith it where what are the common problems with ALL Heddons no matterwhat number. Bad varnish that usually is soft (meltdown) and ill fittingferrules . In my book all Heddons can profit from a new set of BaileyWood step down ferrules. Marty Reed,I've got a #125 2f on the bench now. Broken just as youdescribe, plus about 10 inches. Harry SBDunn@aol.com wrote: My #35 is not broken in the mid, and has been fishedhard. I have a #14 and#17 that have the break you are talking about, but I alsohave another #14and #17 that do not, as well as a #10, #50, & # 60 that donot. To be fairthe #50 & #60 have not been fished much, but the #10 wasdown right abused. I have a similar (sort of) question. I notice that withina few weeks ofreceiving an old rod, I often have wraps deteriorate.It's dry up here inthe Utah desert. Could that be causing it? Regards, Steve. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Feb 6 05:55:31 2001 f16BtUe22502 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:54:32 -0500 Subject: Re: origins of cane --=====================_54070389==_.ALT AJ Campbell's book is very good. He goes through the origins pretty in depth. It is called "Classic and Antique Fly-Fishing Tackle."Bob At 10:45 AM 2/6/2001 +0000, you wrote:Hello chaps, I will be presenting an 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and hope that you guys might be able to help me with some research. I would like to know more about two individuals who seem to be the first split cane rodmakers,Samuel Phillippe of Pennsylvania and William Blacker of London. As far as I can tell these seem to be the first commercial split cane manufacturers circa 1850. Does anyone out there have any informationor clues as to books that can provide evidence of the origins of split cane fishing rods? Are there any references to earlier builders? I wonder if any of you builders in North America know of any other builders of the period and how the fledgling tackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? It seems that the whole split cane idea was lifted from the orient, I have found references to carrying 'yokes' of split cane. Does anyone have any information that they would be willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not in the angling trade? Any references out there as to who in colonial times brought the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a little fun on what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane fishing rod? I suspect this may prove to be a moot point, do I mean a top section of split cane or a full rod? Does it have to be produced commercially? I do not know! I'd like to thank you in advance for any light that you may be able to shed on the roots of our silly pastime.Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2 SHROPSHIRECONTACT:paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.f reeserve.co.uk Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_54070389==_.ALT AJ Campbell's book is very good. He goes through the origins pretty indepth. It is called "Classic and Antique Fly-FishingTackle."Bob At 10:45 AM 2/6/2001 +0000, you wrote:Hello chaps, discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and hope that youguys might be able to help me with some research. individuals who seem to be the first split cane rodmakers, information or clues as to books that can provide evidence of the originsof split cane fishing rods? Are there any references to earlierbuilders? America know of any other builders of the period and how the fledglingtackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? was lifted from the orient, I have found references to carrying 'yokes' willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not in the angling the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a little funon what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane fishing pastime. Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2SHROPSHIRECONTACT: paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_54070389==_.ALT-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Feb 6 07:22:52 2001 (may be forged)) f16DMpe23355 Subject: RE: Hand Mill I'll second all of this. It's an elegant tool that enhances rather thanreplaces craftsmanship, Tom Morgan himself is a treasure, and the hand millis worth every cent and more. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: (no subject) The Hand Mill works by cutting away at the bamboo that is held on top of a plastic anvil. The bamboo is screwed into the anvil, pith side up. The plane, with two cutters set at a 60* (or whatever) angle, cut each side of the strip at once. They move over the strip in a sort of inverted V. The roundness of the enamel sits firmly on the top of the radiused 15/16 plastic anvil. http://www.troutrods.com/handmill.htmlThe cutter heads hold triangular carbide inserts. Look in a machinists catalog for a good look. You don't need to sharpen the cutters at $12 a set. They are rather cheap. This is a big selling point for me. No sharpening. You can rotate, and swap the cutter inserts side by side to get a total of 6 edges with which to cut away. In short, they last several rods. I get about 5 rods out of them before I give up and chuck them. Others get more, but I figure why push it.Look at the Hand Mill accessory page. The cutter pics will make sense. http://www.troutrods.com/accessories.htmlIf not, I would be glad to post some pics. I love my Hand Mill, and I would not go back to the planing form again. Better than a beveller and forms? No, just different. And quieter. Does it mean anyone can build a nice rod with this tool. No. The operator stills needs skill and a knowledge of the materials. Does it make building more pleasurable? Yes. Do quad and penta options make it unbelievable? Yes. Could you ask for a kinder, more open, or more brilliant guy than Tom to buy stuff from? No. I can't tell you how great the service is from them. OK, I am done ranting. Best regards,Bob 09:17 PM 2/5/2001 -0500, you wrote:I would like to know more about the Morgan Hand Mill, so a few questionsforanyone that might have 'hands on' experience with one. I did find a websitewith some info and an image of the mill, but I still have some questions... How does the mill hold the raw strip, since the cutter planes both sides ofthe pith at the same time I don't see how the strip is held in place. Iassume the enamal side is glued or clamped in some way. The cutter head, is it a single piece with a vee notch, or two seperateblades each at it's own angle. Can you sharpen the cutting head ? If thecutting head is a single vee notch I would think it would not be very easytohone with standard stones, yet if the cutters are two seperate pieces itseems difficult to keep the fine tolerance required between two blades. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from GriffinJohn@email.msn.com Tue Feb 6 07:41:55 2001 f16Dfte23814 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 05:41:48 -0800 Subject: Re: origins of cane FILETIME=[8E01D560:01C09042] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C09019.5CB4AA60 Hi Sarah: As someone relatively new to the hobby myself, may I suggest Don =Phillips' Technology of Fly Rods, and Martin Keane's Classic Rodmakers Phillips' book, particularly, provides a concise chronology of cane rod =development, detailing the rustic origin of crude attempts in the =British Isles, followed by the ultimate refinement of cane rod =techniques and construction at the hands of true American artisans ; ) Hope this helps. John PS: I was born in St Albans, live in North Carolina, and just bought a =rather sad Hardy 3/1 9' marked "Palonka". Should it be a 3/2? Any good =books on Hardy rods? Tks-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:45 AMSubject: origins of cane Hello chaps, I will be presenting an 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming =UK rodmakers gathering and hope that you guys might be able to help me =with some research. I would like to know more about two individuals who seem to be the =first split cane rodmakers,Samuel Phillippe of Pennsylvania and William Blacker of London. As =far as I can tell these seem to be the first commercial split cane =manufacturers circa 1850. Does anyone out there have any information or=clues as to books that can provide evidence of the origins of split cane =fishing rods? Are there any references to earlier builders? I wonder if any of you builders in North America know of any other =builders of the period and how the fledgling tackle trade fared during =the U.S. civil war? It seems that the whole split cane idea was lifted from the =orient, I have found references to carrying 'yokes' of split cane. Does =anyone have any information that they would be willing to share as to =early uses of cane possibly not in the angling trade? Any references =out there as to who in colonial times brought the idea back to the U.S. =and to Europe? And of course for a little fun on what side of the =Atlantic do we find the first split cane fishing rod? I suspect this =may prove to be a moot point, do I mean a top section of split cane or a =full rod? Does it have to be produced commercially? I do not know! =I'd like to thank you in advance for any light that you may be able to =shed on the roots of our silly pastime.Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2 SHROPSHIRECONTACT:paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C09019.5CB4AA60 Hi Sarah: As someone relatively new to the hobby= I suggest Don Phillips' Technology of Fly Rods, and = Keane's Classic Rodmakers Phillips' book, particularly, provides = chronology of cane rod development, detailing the rustic origin of crude = rod techniques and construction at the hands of true American artisans ; = ) Hope this helps. John PS: I was born in St Albans, live in = Carolina, and just bought a rather sad Hardy 3/1 9' marked "Palonka". = be a 3/2? Any good books on Hardy rods? Tks-------------------------------------- ---------------Click here = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video=/ ----- Original Message ----- Sarah = Sent: Tuesday, February 06, = AMSubject: origins of cane Hello chaps, 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and = that you guys might be able to help me with some =research. to = rodmakers, there have any information or clues as to books that can provide = the origins of split cane fishing rods? Are there any references to = builders? any = builders in North America know of any other builders of the period and = fledgling tackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? that = split cane idea was lifted from the orient, I have found references to = they would be willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not = brought the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a = fun on what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane = pastime.Tight =Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET = SHROPSHIRECONTACT: paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@beccles=workshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C09019.5CB4AA60-- from GriffinJohn@email.msn.com Tue Feb 6 08:46:51 2001 f16Ekoe25939 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:46:45 -0800 Subject: Powell Hexagraph; Quickly! FILETIME=[A0E4A5A0:01C0904B] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09022.6F82BA20 Dear Rodmakers:Is an early 90's near mint Powell Hexagraph 7' 3/4 wt worth $400? I'm =just not clear whether they were making good rods at this time. Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09022.6F82BA20 Dear Rodmakers:Is an early 90's near mint Powell = wt worth $400? I'm just not clear whether they were making good rods at = time. Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video=/ ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09022.6F82BA20-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Feb 6 09:46:39 2001 f16Fkce28191 2001 07:46:39 PST Subject: Re: Powell Hexagraph; Quickly! it cost alot more than 400 at the time. i would buy itin a second. timothy --- GriffinJohn wrote:Dear Rodmakers:Is an early 90's near mint Powell Hexagraph 7' 3/4wt worth $400? I'm just not clear whether they weremaking good rods at this time. Tks, John -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.http://auctions.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 6 09:59:51 2001 f16Fxoe28843 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:59:42 -0800 Subject: Re: Powell Hexagraph; Quickly! Tim,Is the Powell hexagraph a bamboo rod, or a graphite rod?I think the latter, but I could be wrong. Harry timothy troester wrote: it cost alot more than 400 at the time. i would buy itin a second. timothy --- GriffinJohn wrote: Is an early 90's near mint Powell Hexagraph 7' 3/4wt worth $400? I'm just not clear whether they weremaking good rods at this time. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Feb 6 10:22:58 2001 f16GMqe29837 2001 08:22:50 PST Subject: Re: Powell Hexagraph; Quickly! you are right. it originally cost $425 if it is thegraphite. thankyou for correcting me, harry. i willgo out on the limb tho and say that the 7' 3/4 is ireal nice rod. but it originally cost the $425. timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:Tim,Is the Powell hexagraph a bamboo rod, or agraphite rod?I think the latter, but I could be wrong. Harry timothy troester wrote: it cost alot more than 400 at the time. i wouldbuy itin a second. timothy --- GriffinJohn wrote: Is an early 90's near mint Powell Hexagraph 7'3/4wt worth $400? I'm just not clear whether theyweremaking good rods at this time. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.http://auctions.yahoo.com/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Feb 6 10:43:26 2001 f16GhPe00931 Subject: Re: (no subject) Bob et all: Ditto on all your comments here. Most especially I want to add to yourcomments about Tom. When the master bamboo rodmaker of the universemadeTom he through away the planing form because he realized what a wonderfulperson he created. Tom was so patient and understanding with me during my decision makingprocess to purchase the Handmill. And even now I pick up the phone and Tomis always willing to talk to me and offer suggestion, advise and to answerany questions I might have. In a short sentence "Purchase the Handmill, you won't regret it". Typical disclaimers apply. No financial interest, etc. "JUST A VERYSATISFIED CUSTOMER". Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: (no subject) The Hand Mill works by cutting away at the bamboo that is held on top of aplastic anvil. The bamboo is screwed into the anvil, pith side up. Theplane, with two cutters set at a 60* (or whatever) angle, cut each side ofthe strip at once. They move over the strip in a sort of inverted V. Theroundness of the enamel sits firmly on the top of the radiused 15/16plastic anvil. http://www.troutrods.com/handmill.htmlThe cutter heads hold triangular carbide inserts. Look in a machinistscatalog for a good look. You don't need to sharpen the cutters at $12 aset. They are rather cheap. This is a big selling point for me. Nosharpening. You can rotate, and swap the cutter inserts side by side togeta total of 6 edges with which to cut away. In short, they last severalrods. I get about 5 rods out of them before I give up and chuck them.Others get more, but I figure why push it.Look at the Hand Mill accessory page. The cutter pics will make sense.http://www.troutrods.com/accessories.htmlIf not, I would be glad to post some pics. I love my Hand Mill, and Iwouldnot go back to the planing form again. Better than a beveller and forms?No, just different. And quieter. Does it mean anyone can build a nice rodwith this tool. No. The operator stills needs skill and a knowledge of thematerials. Does it make building more pleasurable? Yes. Do quad and pentaoptions make it unbelievable? Yes. Could you ask for a kinder, more open,or more brilliant guy than Tom to buy stuff from? No. I can't tell you howgreat the service is from them. OK, I am done ranting. Best regards,Bob 09:17 PM 2/5/2001 -0500, you wrote:I would like to know more about the Morgan Hand Mill, so a few questionsforanyone that might have 'hands on' experience with one. I did find a websitewith some info and an image of the mill, but I still have somequestions... How does the mill hold the raw strip, since the cutter planes both sidesofthe pith at the same time I don't see how the strip is held in place. Iassume the enamal side is glued or clamped in some way. The cutter head, is it a single piece with a vee notch, or two seperateblades each at it's own angle. Can you sharpen the cutting head ? Ifthecutting head is a single vee notch I would think it would not be veryeasy tohone with standard stones, yet if the cutters are two seperate pieces itseems difficult to keep the fine tolerance required between two blades. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Feb 6 10:48:05 2001 f16Gm4e01217 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:48:02 -0600 Subject: Re: (no subject) While attending SRG 2000, I met a young genius from up there in Ark., whoturns out some amazing tools. I came home with a roughing tool, thateliminates having to make two set ups on the Morgan, i.e.., the roughingcut, and the finish cut. This tool is made from rock maple, to very closetolerances, and uses carbide cutters like the Morgan. With it, you have thecorrect taper roughed on the pith side, and the strips can transfer directlyto the Morgan which is set up for the finish dimensions ! The other tool is a 4 spool binder than binds in both directions at once !There are others using these tools, and they are a real boon for turning outquality blanks faster. Finding the correct tension for the spools, which isadjustable, is important. Much of this will depend on the size of the crosssection of the strips being bound. It takes only a few seconds to bind ablank, and you are ready to do the straightening, etc.. Skip Shorb is his name, and I have no idea if he wants allot of business,but his talent alone should be made known ! GMA from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 6 12:24:19 2001 f16IOIe05466 Subject: Re: origins of cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C0903F.5AFAD020 Mark,Our "Sparse Grey Hackle" (Henry Miller) did a piece for the Angler's =Club of New York on Phillippe, I will try to find it....Rich Colo-----Original Message-----From: Sarah Stonehewer Date: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 8:34 AMSubject: origins of cane Hello chaps, I will be presenting an 'historical' discussion at the =forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and hope that you guys might be able =to help me with some research. I would like to know more about two individuals who seem to be =the first split cane rodmakers,Samuel Phillippe of Pennsylvania and William Blacker of London. As =far as I can tell these seem to be the first commercial split cane =manufacturers circa 1850. Does anyone out there have any information or=clues as to books that can provide evidence of the origins of split cane =fishing rods? Are there any references to earlier builders? I wonder if any of you builders in North America know of any =other builders of the period and how the fledgling tackle trade fared =during the U.S. civil war? It seems that the whole split cane idea was lifted from the =orient, I have found references to carrying 'yokes' of split cane. Does =anyone have any information that they would be willing to share as to =early uses of cane possibly not in the angling trade? Any references =out there as to who in colonial times brought the idea back to the U.S. =and to Europe? And of course for a little fun on what side of the =Atlantic do we find the first split cane fishing rod? I suspect this =may prove to be a moot point, do I mean a top section of split cane or a =full rod? Does it have to be produced commercially? I do not know! =I'd like to thank you in advance for any light that you may be able to =shed on the roots of our silly pastime.Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2 SHROPSHIRECONTACT:paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C0903F.5AFAD020 Mark,Our = Hackle" (Henry Miller) did a piece for the Angler's Club of New = -----Original = Sarah Stonehewer <rodmaker@beccles= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, February 06, 2001 8:34 AMSubject: originsof = cane Hello chaps, 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering = that you guys might be able to help me with some =research. = rodmakers, there have any information or clues as to books that can provide = the origins of split cane fishing rods? Are there any references to = builders? = builders in North America know of any other builders of the period = the fledgling tackle trade fared during the U.S. civil =war? that = split cane idea was lifted from the orient, I have found references = they would be willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not = brought the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a = fun on what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane = pastime.Tight =Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET = SHROPSHIRECONTACT: rodmaker@beccles=workshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C0903F.5AFAD020-- from rmcelvain@uswest.net Tue Feb 6 13:31:11 2001 f16JVAe08075 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.5.61) Subject: Re: origins of cane --=====================_190315169==_.ALT Hello Sarah,Thomas Edison has a laboratory museum in Florida, I think in Fort Meyers, with an unusual swimming pool. He built the pool during World War I when concrete reinforcing steel was not available, but he did have bamboo growing nearby. So he reinforced the concrete with bamboo and the pool is still crack free and full of water. The museum staff points out this innovative use along with his attempt to use carbonized bamboo as a filament for the light bulb.Best regards, Bob McElvain At 10:45 AM 2/6/01 +0000, you wrote:Hello chaps, I will be presenting an 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and hope that you guys might be able to help me with some research. I would like to know more about two individuals who seem to be the first split cane rodmakers,Samuel Phillippe of Pennsylvania and William Blacker of London. As far as I can tell these seem to be the first commercial split cane manufacturers circa 1850. Does anyone out there have any informationor clues as to books that can provide evidence of the origins of split cane fishing rods? Are there any references to earlier builders? I wonder if any of you builders in North America know of any other builders of the period and how the fledgling tackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? It seems that the whole split cane idea was lifted from the orient, I have found references to carrying 'yokes' of split cane. Does anyone have any information that they would be willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not in the angling trade? Any references out there as to who in colonial times brought the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a little fun on what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane fishing rod? I suspect this may prove to be a moot point, do I mean a top section of split cane or a full rod? Does it have to be produced commercially? I do not know! I'd like to thank you in advance for any light that you may be able to shed on the roots of our silly pastime.Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2 SHROPSHIRECONTACT:paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk --=====================_190315169==_.ALT Hello Sarah, Thomas Edison has a laboratory museum in Florida, I think in Fort Meyers, when concrete reinforcing steel was not available, but he did have bamboo out this innovative use along with his attempt to use carbonized bambooas a filament for the light bulb. At 10:45 AM 2/6/01 +0000, you wrote:Hello chaps, discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and hope that youguys might be able to help me with some research. individuals who seem to be the first split cane rodmakers, there have any information or clues as to books that can provide evidenceof the origins of split cane fishing rods? Are there any references toearlier builders? America know of any other builders of the period and how the fledglingtackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? was lifted from the orient, I have found references to carrying 'yokes' willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not in the angling the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a little funon what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane fishing pastime. Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2SHROPSHIRECONTACT: paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk --=====================_190315169==_.ALT-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Feb 6 13:55:10 2001 f16Jt9e09198 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: origins of cane] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 0C5FC07F291C753C204E6422 --------------0C5FC07F291C753C204E6422 Subject: Re: origins of cane If my history serves me well didn't 'the artisans' originate from thefine shores and green,green lands of England......tee,hee,heeeeeeee.As for a good Hardy Book, the only real and truly great book on thesubject is; Hardy Brothers The Masters,Men and Their Reels600 pages and 800 Photos Look at www.vintagefishingtackle.com for details........Paul --------------0C5FC07F291C753C204E6422-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 6 15:25:20 2001 f16LPJe13083 Subject: Re: Powell Hexagraph; Quickly! RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Tim,Hexagraph sent me two of their rods back in the early 90s and I thought they were crap. Too heavy and lousy cabretsters. i could have bought them for $195.00 back then and sent themback. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Feb 6 15:32:17 2001 f16LWAe13543 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:31:52 +0000 Rodmakers Subject: Re: origins of cane John,Despite being British and a little unhappy with Hardy for refusing mybest endeavours to obtain the Taper for the Jock Scot Bait Caster ( Ohno I hear people cry again.....not that one again ! ).I must confess Ihave ( with the exception of the Phantom ) never cast a Hardy Fly Rodthat has impressed me.I might also add that the build quality of some oftheir rods also leaves a lot to be desired.....regards....Paul N Many Thanks, Paul.Just a little kind hearted teasing of our British brethren. John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ----- Original Message -----From: "paul.blakley" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:50 PMSubject: Re: origins of cane If my history serves me well didn't 'the artisans' originate from thefine shores and green,green lands of England......tee,hee,heeeeeeee.As for a good Hardy Book, the only real and truly great book on thesubject is; Hardy Brothers The Masters,Men and Their Reels600 pages and 800 Photos Look at www.vintagefishingtackle.com for details........Paul from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Feb 6 15:45:23 2001 f16LjMe14425 Subject: Staggering Nodes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C08FF7.3D38CA80 Do different staggering patterns affect the action of the rod or is it a =strength issue only? Any advise on the best pattern(or what is =considered the best)?Also I have noticed that older makers made thererods with heavier tips. But modern makers tend to lean towards lighter =tips. Is that because more people request those tapers or do the makers = I have this old Orvis Superfine 6 1/2 impregnated rod. I think it is =the sweetest casting rod. But the tip seems to be quite heavy and not as =eye pleasing.Does anyone think that a heavier tip allows for a wider range of line = ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C08FF7.3D38CA80 Do different staggering patterns affect the = rod or is it a strength issue only? Any advise on the best pattern(or = considered the best)? thererods with heavier tips. But modern makers tend = towards lighter tips. Is that because more people request those tapers = makers prefer and think there is a casting advantage? heavy and not as eye pleasing.Does anyone think that a heavier tip allows for = ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C08FF7.3D38CA80-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Feb 6 16:26:43 2001 f16MQbe16509 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by the ferrules helpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me that the stressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing a badge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at just thatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Feb 6 16:45:18 2001 f16MjHe17829 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: origins of cane rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0904A.7FAE8FA0 American Fly Fishing - The Full History of Fly Fishing in America here's alink www.vfish.net/amffbook.htm This link has a listing ot the table of contents of this book and might bewhat you need. I also have a 1974 article by kevin Cameron thencurator/registrar for the Am. Fly Fishing Museum who wrote a 7 article foran antique magazine... But the books covers much of the same info. Thearticle says it was either Phillipe (Phillipi in the article) or CharlesMurphy. Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:46 AM Subject: origins of cane Hello chaps, I will be presenting an 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UKrodmakers gathering and hope that you guys might be able to help me withsome research. I would like to know more about two individuals who seem to be thefirst split cane rodmakers,Samuel Phillippe of Pennsylvania and William Blacker of London. As faras I can tell these seem to be the first commercial split cane manufacturerscirca 1850. Does anyone out there have any information or clues as tobooksthat can provide evidence of the origins of split cane fishing rods? Arethere any references to earlier builders? I wonder if any of you builders in North America know of any otherbuilders of the period and how the fledgling tackle trade fared during theU.S. civil war? It seems that the whole split cane idea was lifted from the orient, Ihave found references to carrying 'yokes' of split cane. Does anyone haveany information that they would be willing to share as to early uses of canepossibly not in the angling trade? Any references out there as to who incolonial times brought the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And ofcourse for a little fun on what side of the Atlantic do we find the firstsplit cane fishing rod? I suspect this may prove to be a moot point, do Imean a top section of split cane or a full rod? Does it have to be producedcommercially? I do not know! I'd like to thank you in advance for anylight that you may be able to shed on the roots of our silly pastime.Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2 SHROPSHIRECONTACT:paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0904A.7FAE8FA0 American Fly Fishing - The Full History of Fly Fishing in = a link www.vfish.net/amffbook.htm= link has a listing ot the table of contents of this book and might be = curator/registrar for the Am. Fly Fishing Museum who wrote a = article says it was either Phillipe (Phillipi in the article) or Charles = Murphy. Darrellwww.vfish.net StonehewerSent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:46 = cane Hello chaps, 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and = that you guys might be able to help me with some =research. to = rodmakers, there have any information or clues as to books that can provide = the origins of split cane fishing rods? Are there any references to = builders? any = builders in North America know of any other builders of the period and = fledgling tackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? that = split cane idea was lifted from the orient, I have found references to = they would be willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not = brought the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a = fun on what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane = pastime.Tight =Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET = SHROPSHIRECONTACT: paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@beccles=workshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0904A.7FAE8FA0-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Feb 6 17:04:37 2001 (may be forged)) f16N4We19092 Subject: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT Darrell and others -- That's an interesting point about guides at the end of the ferrules and I'dbe interested in others' experiences. I usually put guides there (just above and below the ferrule joining the tipand mid section, since I make 3-piece rods), thinking as Darrell said thatit adds strength. The only failure I had occurred when there was a small gapbetween the end of the ferrule (it was the male ferrule on the end of a tipsection) and the beginning of the guide foot. I think what happened is thatstress was focused by both the ferrule and (to a lesser degree) by the snakeguide right in that area between them, causing a break there. What haveothers seen? I've have no breakage problems when the foot of the guideoverlaps slightly with the end of the ferrule. But I'm not exactly a veteranin this, I've only made a couple dozen rods. What do the rest of you think? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by the ferrules helpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me that the stressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing a badge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at just thatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Feb 6 17:11:15 2001 f16NBEe19530 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:10:28 -0700 Subject: The Regal Rod This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. Guys... My barber Ron is also a fine fisherman. This afternoon he brought out an =old bamboo saltwater rod from the back room and asked what I thought the=history and value might be. I said, "hell Ron, I don't know! But I do = The rod is a 6' quad with felt upper grip, nickel-silver up-locking, and =oak lower grip. The lower grip is fitted with a healthy stainless butt =cap which may have connected to a stationary mount. The rod is actually = Tycoon Tackle Inc.Miami Ron is convinced the rod was sold through Abercrombie & Fitch during the =Hemingway era, but has little to base this on. Any info or direction will = Jim... Guys... The rod is a 6' quad with felt upper grip, nickel-silve= healthy stainless butt cap which may have connected to The Regal Rod by Tycoon Tackle Inc.MiamiUSA Ron is convinced the rod was sold throughAbercrombie = Jim... from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 6 17:41:50 2001 f16Nfne20611 Rodmakers Subject: Re: origins of cane I SAY, chaps, not being deeply involved with international commerce, Ishould like to be informed as to the going exchange for a pound sterling tothe 'marican greenback (I tried all those macros youse guys suggested forthe funny-looking "L" and none of 'em works on MY keyboard - got a LOT oftime on my hands!).That Hardy book, HARDY BROTHERS THE MASTERS THE MEN AND THEIRREELS(http://www.vintagefishingtackle.com/), looks suspiciously like a mortgagepayment to me, unless the pound has recently dropped to 42 cents when Iwasn't looking!Cheerio!Art At 09:30 PM 02/06/2001 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:John,Despite being British and a little unhappy with Hardy for refusing mybest endeavours to obtain the Taper for the Jock Scot Bait Caster ( Ohno I hear people cry again.....not that one again ! ).I must confess Ihave ( with the exception of the Phantom ) never cast a Hardy Fly Rodthat has impressed me.I might also add that the build quality of some oftheir rods also leaves a lot to be desired.....regards....Paul Nlabour of love by the compilers. GriffinJohn wrote: Many Thanks, Paul.Just a little kind hearted teasing of our British brethren. John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ----- Original Message -----From: "paul.blakley" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:50 PMSubject: Re: origins of cane If my history serves me well didn't 'the artisans' originate from thefine shores and green,green lands of England......tee,hee,heeeeeeee.As for a good Hardy Book, the only real and truly great book on thesubject is; Hardy Brothers The Masters,Men and Their Reels600 pages and 800 Photos Look at www.vintagefishingtackle.com for details........Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Feb 6 17:51:47 2001 f16Npke21035 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:51:34 -0600 "GriffinJohn" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re: origins of cane The U.K. pound has been around $1.45 to $1.47 for quite awhile now. When Ifirst started importing, back in the '60's, it was $2.54 !GMA from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 6 18:01:29 2001 f1701Se21506 "GriffinJohn" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re: origins of cane EGADS, IT JUST HAPPENED AGAIN!!!!!Yes, I AM shouting!George answered my question just BEFORE I got my question back from theserver! Congratulations on your prescience, George; how'd you know I wasgoing to ASK that question? 8^)I know Joe is "stuck in the woods.." or somesuch, but I think I'm stuck ina freakin' TIME-WARP. I guess it's because I don't smoke cigars so I can'tbe where he is.Sheesh!Art At 05:59 PM 02/06/2001 -0600, nobler wrote:The U.K. pound has been around $1.45 to $1.47 for quite awhile now. When Ifirst started importing, back in the '60's, it was $2.54 !GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 6 18:04:18 2001 f1704He21739 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:04:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Staggering Nodes Tony,You've asked several questions. I'll try to answer someof them. See comments in line. Tony Miller wrote: Do different staggering patterns affect the action of therod or is it a strength issue only?******** I don't think the node staggering pattern makesmuch of a difference in the action of the rod. There maybe a very slight difference in strength, but it will bevery slight. Any advise on the best pattern(or what is considered thebest)? ******** Find one that you like and stick with it. I'vepretty well chosen to stay with 2x2 for two reasons.First, I like the idea of nodes directly opposing oneanother. And second it is a good compromise on gettingthe most usable cane from your strips. Also I have noticed that older makers made thererods withheavier tips. But modern makers tend to lean towardslighter tips. Is that because more people request thosetapers or do the makers prefer and think there is acasting advantage? ******** Old makers just generally made longer andheavier rods than most folks today. Average rod lengthwas 9'. Average line weight about 6-8. Today we probablyaverage 7.5' and a 4-5 line. That makes for lighter tips Hope this helps,Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Feb 6 18:06:42 2001 f1706ae21985 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:59:45 -0500 Subject: Re: origins of cane f1706fe21986 Art:It is ridiculously in the UKs favor as far as I know. Ł1 is worth $1.47 or so. (The ALT 0163 works, baby!) Try the currency convertor on the phoenix site. http://www.phoenixlines.com/order.htmlTa ta for now,Bob At 06:41 PM 2/6/2001 -0500, you wrote:I SAY, chaps, not being deeply involved with international commerce, Ishould like to be informed as to the going exchange for a pound sterling tothe 'marican greenback (I tried all those macros youse guys suggested forthe funny-looking "L" and none of 'em works on MY keyboard - got a LOT oftime on my hands!).That Hardy book, HARDY BROTHERS THE MASTERS THE MEN AND THEIRREELS(http://www.vintagefishingtackle.com/), looks suspiciously like a mortgagepayment to me, unless the pound has recently dropped to 42 cents when Iwasn't looking!Cheerio!Art At 09:30 PM 02/06/2001 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:John,Despite being British and a little unhappy with Hardy for refusing mybest endeavours to obtain the Taper for the Jock Scot Bait Caster ( Ohno I hear people cry again.....not that one again ! ).I must confess Ihave ( with the exception of the Phantom ) never cast a Hardy Fly Rodthat has impressed me.I might also add that the build quality of some oftheir rods also leaves a lot to be desired.....regards....Paul N >labour of love by the compilers. GriffinJohn wrote: Many Thanks, Paul.Just a little kind hearted teasing of our British brethren. John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ----- Original Message -----From: "paul.blakley" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:50 PMSubject: Re: origins of cane If my history serves me well didn't 'the artisans' originate from thefine shores and green,green lands of England......tee,hee,heeeeeeee.As for a good Hardy Book, the only real and truly great book on thesubject is; Hardy Brothers The Masters,Men and Their Reels600 pages and 800 Photos Look at www.vintagefishingtackle.com for details........Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 6 18:48:59 2001 f170mwe23268 Subject: Re: origins of cane (The ALT 0163 works, baby!) bob@downandacross.com Thanks for the info, fellas, but, Bob, the pound symbol doesn't work onthis H- P Vectra with a Compaq keyboard! I'm just crazy enough to have triedeach suggestion as they came in and none, count 'em - not one, worked withthis dinosaur.I guess I was right about the mortgage payment, though.Art from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Feb 6 18:58:03 2001 f170w3e23721 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect - NOT I agree that guides placed close to the ferrules would seem to support anotherwise vulnerable area. My Phillipson Premium (Granger cousin) 3/2 midhas guides snug on both ends. Good point Darrell. OBTW, I failed to mention my #17 Heddon has soft varnish with slight bagtexturing. I appreciate those of you saying this seems to be a Heddon trait,I wouldn't have known otherwise. What do you guys do about this? I'vetried Sinclair's polishing advice (his book) on it but I'm not satisfiedwith the results, just wondering if sanding it a bit and then one dipping ofspar would be compatible, not knowing what Heddon used. I'd rather not goto complete varnish removal if there's another avenue. TIA.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by the ferruleshelpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me that thestressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing a badge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at justthatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "reed curry" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:44 PMSubject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Feb 6 19:28:18 2001 f171SHe24634 (5.5.2653.19) darrell@rockclimbing.org Subject: RE: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT read garrison and carmichle's book, "a masters guide . . ."the old man himself advocated putting the guide next to the ferrule, withonly a few thread wraps separating the two.he states that the guide reinforces the cane next to the ferrule, reducingthe stresss.whether you believe it or not (cane rodbuilding is full of opinions held asabsolute truths)is up to you. jus my two cents. chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT Darrell and others -- That's an interesting point about guides at the end of the ferrules and I'dbe interested in others' experiences. I usually put guides there (just above and below the ferrule joining the tipand mid section, since I make 3-piece rods), thinking as Darrell said thatit adds strength. The only failure I had occurred when there was a small gapbetween the end of the ferrule (it was the male ferrule on the end of a tipsection) and the beginning of the guide foot. I think what happened is thatstress was focused by both the ferrule and (to a lesser degree) by the snakeguide right in that area between them, causing a break there. What haveothers seen? I've have no breakage problems when the foot of the guideoverlaps slightly with the end of the ferrule. But I'm not exactly a veteranin this, I've only made a couple dozen rods. What do the rest of you think? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by the ferrules helpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me that the stressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing a badge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at just thatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 6 20:17:29 2001 f172HSe25796 Subject: Heddon --part1_d5.206f12c.27b209eb_boundary --part1_d5.206f12c.27b209eb_boundary 21:09:23 -0500 0500 with internal id TAO03467; Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 1 day Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) --TAO03467.981511734/imo-r05.mx.aol.com from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with itsdelivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the sectionlabeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ---- -". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the sectionlabeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with " ----- Transcript of session follows -----... Deferred: Connection timed out withwugate.wustl.com.Message could not be delivered for 1 dayMessage will be deleted from queue --TAO03467.981511734/imo-r05.mx.aol.comReporting-MTA: dns; imo- r05.mx.aol.com Final-Recipient: RFC822; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.comAction: failed Remote-MTA: DNS; wugate.wustl.com --TAO03467.981511734/imo-r05.mx.aol.com Subject: Fwd: Heddon #35 defect --part1_b7.b321560.27b0a61a_boundary --part1_b7.b321560.27b0a61a_boundary Full-name: Grhghlndr Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect List,I have fished a # 10,#14,#17,#35 and a Heddon Premier for over 30years and have never broken one yet. These rods vary from 8'-9' they also run from size 2 ferrule up tru 2 3/4 ferrule and I have thrown hair bugs, streamers, wet flies and dry flies with these rods. My # 17 I have fished from morning until night as I waded from one access to another on the Pere Marquette. This is a steady 9 hour day of fishing. Now I have seen Heddons that were broken at these areas and my thinking is abuse. Most guys I see fishing for one thing have no idea how to fight a fish let alone land one. I have also seen many a graphite rod broken. How many of you guys havebroken a rod yourself? I have only broken one rod in 40+ years of fishing and that was a Sheakspeare 6' glass spinning rod when I was 15 and that was becauseI tried to horse in a 20+ inch Brown Trout in fast water and bent the rod beyond any reason. The next time you guys go out fishing ( especially salmon or steelhead fishing) watch the angle at which some of these idiots bend their rods. It is no wonder guys break a rod. Whew enough said.Bret --part1_b7.b321560.27b0a61a_boundary-- --TAO03467.981511734/imo-r05.mx.aol.com-- --part1_d5.206f12c.27b209eb_boundary-- from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Feb 6 20:22:00 2001 f172Lxe26073 (63.228.46.190) Subject: Re: Hand Mill count me in on all the allocades for Tom Morgan.Dave Norling-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Hand Mill I'll second all of this. It's an elegant tool that enhances rather thanreplaces craftsmanship, Tom Morgan himself is a treasure, and the handmillis worth every cent and more. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:08 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: (no subject) The Hand Mill works by cutting away at the bamboo that is held on top of aplastic anvil. The bamboo is screwed into the anvil, pith side up. Theplane, with two cutters set at a 60* (or whatever) angle, cut each side ofthe strip at once. They move over the strip in a sort of inverted V. Theroundness of the enamel sits firmly on the top of the radiused 15/16plastic anvil. http://www.troutrods.com/handmill.htmlThe cutter heads hold triangular carbide inserts. Look in a machinistscatalog for a good look. You don't need to sharpen the cutters at $12 aset. They are rather cheap. This is a big selling point for me. Nosharpening. You can rotate, and swap the cutter inserts side by side to geta total of 6 edges with which to cut away. In short, they last severalrods. I get about 5 rods out of them before I give up and chuck them.Others get more, but I figure why push it.Look at the Hand Mill accessory page. The cutter pics will make sense.http://www.troutrods.com/accessories.htmlIf not, I would be glad to post some pics. I love my Hand Mill, and I wouldnot go back to the planing form again. Better than a beveller and forms?No, just different. And quieter. Does it mean anyone can build a nice rodwith this tool. No. The operator stills needs skill and a knowledge of thematerials. Does it make building more pleasurable? Yes. Do quad and pentaoptions make it unbelievable? Yes. Could you ask for a kinder, more open,or more brilliant guy than Tom to buy stuff from? No. I can't tell you howgreat the service is from them. OK, I am done ranting. Best regards,Bob 09:17 PM 2/5/2001 -0500, you wrote:I would like to know more about the Morgan Hand Mill, so a few questionsforanyone that might have 'hands on' experience with one. I did find a websitewith some info and an image of the mill, but I still have somequestions... How does the mill hold the raw strip, since the cutter planes both sidesofthe pith at the same time I don't see how the strip is held in place. Iassume the enamal side is glued or clamped in some way. The cutter head, is it a single piece with a vee notch, or two seperateblades each at it's own angle. Can you sharpen the cutting head ? If thecutting head is a single vee notch I would think it would not be very easytohone with standard stones, yet if the cutters are two seperate pieces itseems difficult to keep the fine tolerance required between two blades. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 6 20:24:04 2001 f172O3e26240 Subject: Heddon post Guys,i don't know what happened to my heddon post but you must scroll all theway down to get the message.Bret from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Feb 6 20:33:33 2001 f172XWe26685 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:33:21 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Staggering Nodes --------------60F6EFEE1F4928D2CD801532 Tony,I find that I use whatever stagger fits the taper, the # of pieces, andthecane's stagger itself. Use whatever stagger keeps your nodes away from theferrules.I don't find it really affects the action or strength. I have even built greatrodswith a random stagger from different culms (Oh Oh here it comes!!) and I'msure I'mnot the only one here. At least one of the masters did the same on occasion,Think itwas Payne maybe even Leonard??I think that the lighter tips you refer to on newer rods is due to recenttrend towards faster, dry fly action rods as opposed to to many of the olderheavier,wet/multi purpose rods (in general).My personal opinion only...., hope it helps,Shawn Tony Miller wrote: Do different staggering patterns affect the action of the rod or is it astrengthissue only? Any advise on the best pattern(or what is considered thebest)?Also Ihave noticed that older makers made thererods with heavier tips. Butmodern makerstend to lean towards lighter tips. Is that because more people requestthose tapersor do the makers prefer and think there is a casting advantage?I have thisoldOrvis Superfine 6 1/2 impregnated rod. I think it is the sweetest castingrod. Butthe tip seems to be quite heavy and not as eye pleasing.Does anyone thinkthat aheavier tip allows for a wider range of line sizes to be used on a rod?TonyMiller --------------60F6EFEE1F4928D2CD801532 Tony, whatever stagger fits the taper, the # of pieces, and the cane's staggeritself. Use whatever stagger keeps your nodes away from the ferrules. Idon't find it really affects the action or strength. I have even builtgreat rods with a random stagger from different culms (Oh Oh here itcomes!!)and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. At least one of the masters didthe same on occasion, Think it was Payne maybe even lightertips you refer to on newer rods is due to recent trend towards faster,dry fly action rods as opposed to to many of the older heavier, wet/multipurpose rods (in general). opiniononly...., hope it helps, ShawnTony Miller wrote: Do different staggeringpatterns affect the action of the rod or is it a strength issue only? Anyadvise on the best pattern(or what is considered the best)?AlsoI have noticed that older makers made thererodswith heavier tips. But modern makers tend to lean towards lighter tips.Is that because more people request those tapers or do the makers preferand think there is a casting advantage?I have sweetest casting rod. But the tip seems to be quite heavy and not as eyepleasing.Does anyone think that a heavier tipallows for a wider range of line sizes to be used on a rod?TonyMiller --------------60F6EFEE1F4928D2CD801532-- from harms1@pa.net Tue Feb 6 21:30:34 2001 f173UYe28238 Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:30:14 -0500 Subject: Re: origins of cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0908C.32592CA0 Mark,Others will need to fill in your request for information on Phillippe =and Blacker and the history of rod making. But as to your request for some info on the history of bamboo itself, I =would recommend David Farrelly, The Book of Bamboo. San Francisco: =Sierra Club Books. 1984 (ISBN 0-87156-825-X) from your description of =your interests I would guess this book to be exactly what you're looking =for--335 pages of research, anecdotes, descriptions, taxonomy, ancient =uses, modern uses, myths and superstitions, cultivation, architecture =and building, music and profuse illustrations and drawings on every =page. cheers, Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:45 AMSubject: origins of cane Hello chaps, I will be presenting an 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming =UK rodmakers gathering and hope that you guys might be able to help me =with some research. I would like to know more about two individuals who seem to be the =first split cane rodmakers,Samuel Phillippe of Pennsylvania and William Blacker of London. As =far as I can tell these seem to be the first commercial split cane =manufacturers circa 1850. Does anyone out there have any information or=clues as to books that can provide evidence of the origins of split cane =fishing rods? Are there any references to earlier builders? I wonder if any of you builders in North America know of any other =builders of the period and how the fledgling tackle trade fared during =the U.S. civil war? It seems that the whole split cane idea was lifted from the =orient, I have found references to carrying 'yokes' of split cane. Does =anyone have any information that they would be willing to share as to =early uses of cane possibly not in the angling trade? Any references =out there as to who in colonial times brought the idea back to the U.S. =and to Europe? And of course for a little fun on what side of the =Atlantic do we find the first split cane fishing rod? I suspect this =may prove to be a moot point, do I mean a top section of split cane or a =full rod? Does it have to be produced commercially? I do not know! =I'd like to thank you in advance for any light that you may be able to =shed on the roots of our silly pastime.Tight Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET AUG.31SEP.1&2 SHROPSHIRECONTACT:paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0908C.32592CA0 Mark,Otherswill = your request for information on Phillippe and Blacker and the = rod making. But as to your request for= book to be exactly what you're looking for--335 pages of research, = descriptions, taxonomy, ancient uses, modern uses, myths and = cultivation, architecture and building, music and profuse illustrations = drawings on every page. cheers, =Bill-----------------------------------------------------Click here = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Sarah = Sent: Tuesday, February 06, = AMSubject: origins of cane Hello chaps, 'historical' discussion at the forthcoming UK rodmakers gathering and = that you guys might be able to help me with some =research. to = rodmakers, there have any information or clues as to books that can provide = the origins of split cane fishing rods? Are there any references to = builders? any = builders in North America know of any other builders of the period and = fledgling tackle trade fared during the U.S. civil war? that = split cane idea was lifted from the orient, I have found references to = they would be willing to share as to early uses of cane possibly not = brought the idea back to the U.S. and to Europe? And of course for a = fun on what side of the Atlantic do we find the first split cane = pastime.Tight =Lines,Mark Ford UK ROD MEET = SHROPSHIRECONTACT: paulblakley@ntlworld.comrodmaker@beccles=workshop.freeserve.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C0908C.32592CA0-- from Oozakgpt@aol.com Tue Feb 6 22:03:06 2001 f17436e29048 Subject: Medved beveler --part1_ee.10cc2bc8.27b222df_boundary In process of building the Medved beveler and I have some benignquestions.#1 Anyone on the list using it? #2 It calls for two trays and this is where I get lost.One tray appears to be a square groove 3/8" x 3/8".The other trayis naturally a 60 degree groove .How do you get a square spline to a untapered 60 degree spline without cutting the 30 degree initial cut in the spline? #3 Are the adjustment screw to set tray level and the lock screw to setminimum thickness always flush with the tray's? #4 Is there a depression in the tray's where the router bit exits to adjust spline thickness? TIA Greg T --part1_ee.10cc2bc8.27b222df_boundary In process of building theMedved beveler and I have some benign questions.#1 where I get lost.One tray appears to be a square groove 3/8" x 3/8".The othertray is naturally a 60 degree groove .How do you get a square spline to auntapered 60 degree spline without cutting the 30 degree initial cut in the spline? Are the adjustment screw to set tray level and the lock screw to setminimum thickness always flush with the tray's? #4 Is there a depression in the tray's where the router bit exits to adjust spline thickness? TIA GregT --part1_ee.10cc2bc8.27b222df_boundary-- from trippma@mindspring.com Tue Feb 6 23:00:27 2001 f1750Qe00341 Subject: Re: Hand Mill Yet another voice for Tom and his wonderful mill. I got to meet and hangout with him, and his machinist for several hours summer before last. Got ademo of the mill and put a deposit down on the spot. One of the sweetest,most honorable men I have ever met, and a brilliant engineer. Not onlythat, but his support after the sale is second to none! Missed the late morning trico spinner fall to hang out with him, and havenever regreted it! And I'm talkin' BIG brown trout here! -Mark from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Feb 7 00:20:46 2001 f176Kje02416 Subject: Re: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT Hi all,My thinking is that breaks at the ferrule has little if anything at all todo with guide placement. My rule of thumb is not to turn down the rod belowthe distance across the flats at the end of the ferrule.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT Darrell and others -- That's an interesting point about guides at the end of the ferrules andI'dbe interested in others' experiences. I usually put guides there (just above and below the ferrule joining thetipand mid section, since I make 3-piece rods), thinking as Darrell said thatit adds strength. The only failure I had occurred when there was a smallgapbetween the end of the ferrule (it was the male ferrule on the end of atipsection) and the beginning of the guide foot. I think what happened isthatstress was focused by both the ferrule and (to a lesser degree) by thesnakeguide right in that area between them, causing a break there. What haveothers seen? I've have no breakage problems when the foot of the guideoverlaps slightly with the end of the ferrule. But I'm not exactly aveteranin this, I've only made a couple dozen rods. What do the rest of youthink? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:13 PM Subject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by the ferruleshelpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me that thestressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing a badge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at justthatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "reed curry" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:44 PMSubject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone has everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from SBDunn@aol.com Wed Feb 7 00:42:27 2001 f176gQe03087 Subject: Re: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT --part1_b4.10f93ff2.27b2484c_boundary I think Heddon was supposed to have designed their tapers to fit a particular ferrule and even went so far as to have half sized ferrules created for certain tapers. I don't think turning the rod down too much was the problem. Regards, Steve. --part1_b4.10f93ff2.27b2484c_boundary I think Heddon wassupposed to have designed their tapers to fit a particular ferrule and even went so far as to have half sized ferrules created for the problem. Regards, Steve. --part1_b4.10f93ff2.27b2484c_boundary-- from stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed Feb 7 02:58:05 2001 f178w4e05492 Subject: Spline Hmmm.... After spending all that time choosing a culm, splitting as straight aspossible, marking the strips to make sure they are right next to eachother in the finished rod, keeping strip number one of the butt sectionin line with strip number one of the tip section, and generally doingnothing that would compromise the parallel path of the power fibers frombutt to tip, which should more or less give me a rod with the generalcharacteristics of the original culm (yes I have experimented with usingstrips from opposing positions in the culm)......... I am now supposedto roll my finished section on the workbench to find the "spline" and inthe process ignore the original butt to tip path the power fibers took!!! Does this mean that all the work I have put into keeping strips togetherand in line is pointless or that there is no "spline" that can be foundon a finished rod. Stuart from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Feb 7 03:29:56 2001 f179Tse05971 f179TLW72687; Subject: Re: Powell Hexagraph; Quickly! Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09143.A106FD00 Hello, John You mean they made god rods at any time? It's a bit like asking for "a good book" on TLW rods - it's an oxymoron! =:-) Stay happy Peter Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 1:51 AMSubject: Powell Hexagraph; Quickly! Dear Rodmakers:Is an early 90's near mint Powell Hexagraph 7' 3/4 wt worth $400? I'm =just not clear whether they were making good rods at this time. Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09143.A106FD00 Hello, John You mean they made god rods at = time? It's a bit like asking for "a good = rods - it's an oxymoron! :-) Stay happy Peter ----- Original Message ----- GriffinJohn Sent: Wednesday, February 07, = AMSubject: Powell Hexagraph; =Quickly! Dear Rodmakers:Is an early 90's near mint Powell = 3/4 wt worth $400? I'm just not clear whether they were making good = this time. Tks, John-----------------------------------------------------Click = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/free_video=/ ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09143.A106FD00-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Feb 7 04:44:55 2001 f17Aise06707 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 06:44:50 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Medved beveler --------------6DDCC6134A6E77522F4EB4CA #1-I am just finishing up my Medved beveller. I have tried it on some teststrips andso far seems to work fine.#2- one tray is simply for squaring the cane up and the other for making theuntapered strip.#3-start by just taking small amounts off till the strip sits good in the tray. Idomy strips by hand the same way, I don't use a preliminary roughing form justthe 60degree roughing form and I tend to get better results.#4- yes the router bit has a depression to sit down into, just turn on therouter andwind the tray up till the bit eats down to the bottom of the V groove.#5 (bonus life lesson!)- ensure that you make the Plexiglas shield, don't cutcornershere!#6 (another bonus)- Make sure you use good quality springs, that they aren'tundertoo much tension (not necessary) and that once installed the ends are bentso thatthe springs stay where they are supposed to! SEE TIP #5!!!!! Ask me how Iwrecked abrand new $40 bit when the spring let go and wound itself around the bit,once againsee tip #5!!!!#7 & #8- You may need to modify the box dimensions to accommodate yourrouter as Idid, Al's dimensions were for a small router. Make sure once installed you canget atswitches, knobs, and change bits.- The feed direction of the tray will probably need to bereversed....youwant the cane to come in from the side that the router bit will bite down onit. Forexample if your bit spins Counter-clockwise and cuts that direction looking from thefront, your bamboo will have to feed left to right, not right to left as in thepictures and plans. I know this is a little hard to follow but just remember youdon't want the bit scooping upwards on the cane, this leaves you with a bigpile ofsplinters!One last modification I made was to drill small holes all down the tensionarmsso I had complete control of the tension.Hope all this helps, just give me a holler if something isn't clear, Shawn Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote: In process of building the Medved beveler and I have some benignquestions.#1Anyone on the list using it? #2 It calls for two trays and this is where Iget lost.One tray appears to be a square groove 3/8" x 3/8".The othertray isnaturally a 60 degree groove .How do you get a square spline to auntapered60 degree spline without cutting the 30 degree initial cut in the spline? #3Are the adjustment screw to set tray level and the lock screw to setminimumthickness always flush with the tray's? #4 Is there a depression in thetray's where the router bit exits to adjust spline thickness? TIA Greg T --------------6DDCC6134A6E77522F4EB4CA #1-I am just finishing up my Medved beveller. I have tried it on some teststrips and so far seems to work fine.#2- one tray is simply for squaring the cane up and the other formakingthe untapered strip.#3-start by just taking small amounts off till the strip sits goodin the tray. I do my strips by hand the same way, I don't use a preliminaryroughing form just the 60 degree roughing form and I tend to get betterresults.#4- yes the router bit has a depression to sit down into, just turnon the router and wind the tray up till the bit eats down to the bottomof the V groove.#5 (bonus life lesson!)- ensure that you make the Plexiglas shield,don't cut corners here!#6 (another bonus)- Make sure you use good quality springs, that theyaren't under too much tension (not necessary) and that once installed theends are bent so that the springs stay where they are supposed to! SEETIP #5!!!!! Ask me how I wrecked a brand new $40 bit when the spring letgo and wound itself around the bit, once again see tip #5!!!!#7 & #8- You may need to modify the box dimensions toaccommodateyour router as I did, Al's dimensions were for a small router. Make sureonce installed you can get at switches, knobs, and change bits. - The feed direction of the tray will probably need to be reversed....youwant the cane to come in from the side that the router bit will bite downon it. For example if your bit spins Counter-clockwise and cuts that directionlooking from the front, your bamboo will have to feed left to right, notright to left as in the pictures and plans. I know this is a little hardto follow but just remember you don't want the bit scooping upwards onthe cane, this leaves you with a big pile of splinters! drill small holes all down the tension arms so I had complete control ofthe tension. if something isn't clear, Oozakgpt@aol.com wrote:Inprocess of building the Medved beveler and I have some benignquestions.#1Anyone Igetlost.One tray appears to be a square groove 3/8" x 3/8".The other trayisnaturallya 60 degree groove .How do you get a square spline to auntapered60 degree #3Arethe adjustment screw to set tray level and the lock screw to setminimumthicknessalways flush with the tray's? #4 Is there a depression inthetray'swhere the router bit exits to adjust spline thickness? TIA GregT --------------6DDCC6134A6E77522F4EB4CA-- from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Feb 7 05:07:27 2001 f17B7Qe07113 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Hi Ed, Polishing of soft varnish doesn't really work. After you smoothit ,it still is soft. I have tried rubbing on tung oil with lots ofJapan dryer added with some success. I would go the polish and dipmethod as long as the varnish is not to soft. Marty I agree that guides placed close to the ferrules would seem to support anotherwise vulnerable area. My Phillipson Premium (Granger cousin) 3/2midhas guides snug on both ends. Good point Darrell. OBTW, I failed to mention my #17 Heddon has soft varnish with slight bagtexturing. I appreciate those of you saying this seems to be a Heddon trait,I wouldn't have known otherwise. What do you guys do about this? I'vetried Sinclair's polishing advice (his book) on it but I'm not satisfiedwith the results, just wondering if sanding it a bit and then one dipping ofspar would be compatible, not knowing what Heddon used. I'd rather not goto complete varnish removal if there's another avenue. TIA.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:13 PMSubject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by the ferruleshelpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me that thestressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing a badge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at justthatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "reed curry" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:44 PMSubject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone haseverseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? Hehashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 06:40:23 2001 f17CeMe08346 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 06:40:07 -0600 Subject: Re: origins of cane I have a fairly new Del, and have never found any reference to using theU.K. pound sign.GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 06:45:57 2001 f17Cjue08615 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 06:45:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Varnishes are pretty inert, since they don't use "hot" thinners such aslacquers do. A small spot sanded, and just a small area with fresh varnishshould answer this. Using #1200 or finer, very gently should eliminate allotof the bad areas. A Popsicle stick is good for not taking off the corners ofthe hex. GMA from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Feb 7 07:18:21 2001 f17DIKe09140 , Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect - NOT I do the same and use mineral spirits as a lubricant. I do the whole rod.Often after this the rod is still a bit sticky. Next, I apply a couple ofcoats of Tung oil which tends to penetrate and stabilize the finish. Then Isteel wool again and apply two light coats of poly varnish. The first ofwhich is allowed to dry for weeks before touch up sanding and final coat. It remains to be seen how long this finish will last but it seems stablesmooth and flexible. -Doug At 06:53 AM 2/7/01 -0600, nobler wrote:Varnishes are pretty inert, since they don't use "hot" thinners such aslacquers do. A small spot sanded, and just a small area with fresh varnishshould answer this. Using #1200 or finer, very gently should eliminate allotof the bad areas. A Popsicle stick is good for not taking off the corners ofthe hex. GMA from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 7 08:07:29 2001 f17E7Te10160 Subject: lathes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C090E5.2534C620 i saw a 14 x 40 Central Machinery lathe for $64 in the harbor =frieght catalogue. it has a motor. is this a deal or a piece of junk. mike canazon still ridin the bus. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C090E5.2534C620 all, Machinery = $64 in the harbor frieght catalogue. it has a motor. is this a deal or a = of junk. mike canazon bus. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C090E5.2534C620-- from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Feb 7 08:20:21 2001 f17EKKe11007 (63.228.45.246) Subject: reel seat wood This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C090DE.75B04680 I've been dealing with an outfit in Tacoma Wash. for small pieces of =tightly burled wood suitable for reel seats. You don't have to buy the =whole tree and the stuff they have sent me is the best I've seen. They =hand pick small 1"x1"x 12" pieces for me and let me know ahead of time =what they have. (color,wood type etc.) Price is good too.Try them: It's Lyle Parfrey lparfrey@nwrain.com Also a web site at = No commercial Interest etc. etc.Dave Norling ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C090DE.75B04680 I've been dealing with an outfit in = to buy the whole tree and the stuff they have sent me is the best I've = They hand pick small 1"x1"x 12" pieces for me and let me = too. site at www.nwwood.com = No commercial Interest etc. =etc.Dave =Norling ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C090DE.75B04680-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Wed Feb 7 09:07:20 2001 f17F7Je12559 2001 07:07:17 PST Subject: Re: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT This is a good topic for discussion. I think that Ray is right onthis. His approach will result in usiong larger ferrules in manysituations compared to what I see in the taper archive, for example. I see alot tapers showing something like .211 (13.5) at the breakusing a 13/64 ferrule. I would use a 14. At .211 on the flats, thecorners are about .244 (15.6/64) and the average is about .227(14.6). In my view, that is just short of perfect fit for a 14/64. I consider a perfect fit for a 14/64 ferrule to be about 13.7/64(.214) on the flats. The corners would be about .247 (15.8/64) andthe average about .231 (14.8/64). The tough ones are when the flats come out to 13.1 or 13.2 64ths. At13.2/64, I would probably use a 14. Jerry --- Ray Gould wrote:Hi all,My thinking is that breaks at the ferrule has little if anything atall todo with guide placement. My rule of thumb is not to turn down therod belowthe distance across the flats at the end of the ferrule.Ray----- Original Message -----From: "Kling, Barry W." Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:04 PMSubject: Guide at the ferrule, Was Heddon #35 defect - NOT Darrell and others -- That's an interesting point about guides at the end of theferrules andI'dbe interested in others' experiences. I usually put guides there (just above and below the ferrulejoining thetipand mid section, since I make 3-piece rods), thinking as Darrellsaid thatit adds strength. The only failure I had occurred when there wasa smallgapbetween the end of the ferrule (it was the male ferrule on theend of atipsection) and the beginning of the guide foot. I think whathappened isthatstress was focused by both the ferrule and (to a lesser degree) snakeguide right in that area between them, causing a break there.What haveothers seen? I've have no breakage problems when the foot of theguideoverlaps slightly with the end of the ferrule. But I'm notexactly aveteranin this, I've only made a couple dozen rods. What do the rest ofyouthink? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:13 PM Subject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by theferruleshelpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me thatthe stressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing abadge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell> > -----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inchat justthatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "reed curry" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:44 PMSubject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyonehas everseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule??He hashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.http://auctions.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Feb 7 09:29:18 2001 f17FTHe13505 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT I bought a pair of #35's a couple years ago. One was in excellent originalcondition and the other the varnish was in complete meltdown. One had areceipt that it had been completely stripped and refinished, but I wasunsure of which was which. The rod with the varnish meltdown was very thickcompared to the other rod. I suspect the rod was dipped or brushed with apoor quality varnish as both rods were stored together and yet one wasperfect and the other was a mess. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Hi Ed, Polishing of soft varnish doesn't really work. After you smoothit ,it still is soft. I have tried rubbing on tung oil with lots ofJapan dryer added with some success. I would go the polish and dipmethod as long as the varnish is not to soft. Marty I agree that guides placed close to the ferrules would seem to support anotherwise vulnerable area. My Phillipson Premium (Granger cousin) 3/2midhas guides snug on both ends. Good point Darrell. OBTW, I failed to mention my #17 Heddon has soft varnish with slight bagtexturing. I appreciate those of you saying this seems to be a Heddontrait,I wouldn't have known otherwise. What do you guys do about this? I'vetried Sinclair's polishing advice (his book) on it but I'm not satisfiedwith the results, just wondering if sanding it a bit and then one dippingofspar would be compatible, not knowing what Heddon used. I'd rather not goto complete varnish removal if there's another avenue. TIA.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:13 PMSubject: RE: Heddon #35 defect - NOT Perhaps the placement of the snake guides on each end by the ferruleshelpslike the way the Grangers were made. It makes sense to me that thestressisreduced by having guides at each end of the ferrules. I wouldn't call the broken at the butts a defect, but showing a badge ofhonor that the rod was well fished instead of being neglected. Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Fw: Heddon #35 defect The only Heddon I've seen up close is the one I purchased about 2 yearsago. A #17, 2F, 8 1/2' "Black Beauty" that's down one inch at justthatvery point, all else excellent.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "reed curry" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:44 PMSubject: Heddon #35 defect Just a question: Fred Kretchman and I were wondering if anyone haseverseen a Heddon #35 which was not broken at the top mid ferrule?? Hehashad 5 and I one, all with that break point.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Wed Feb 7 09:47:32 2001 f17FlVe14396 Subject: Para 16 My Fellow Listers: Follows is the Para 16 taper as provided by our friend Ron Barch. Ron saysto say "hello", and that he wishes there were more hours in the day, as hewould like to be back amongst us. Martin,Here are the numbers for the Para 160 805 9010 11615 14720 18125 19030 20635 21240 23345 25050 26255 26560 28065 29570 30575 30580 30585 30590 30595 305100 305 these are averages measured over varnish. I don't think they are veryaccurate as the rod was refinished and I think brush varnished. But its aplace to start. Ron from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 09:58:01 2001 f17Fw0e14999 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:57:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Para 16 At last ! Thanks Ron, and Martin for this !GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 10:00:07 2001 f17G06e15248 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:59:50 -0600 Subject: Re: lathes I'd avoid it, and save for a lather that has at least a 1" spindle bore. Adecent used U.S. lathe is better than many imports !GMA from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb 7 10:11:09 2001 f17GB4e15935 "Ronald J. Barch" Subject: Re: Para 16 Martin ------ there is a God!...Rich Jojo DeLancier wrote: My Fellow Listers: Follows is the Para 16 taper as provided by our friend Ron Barch. Ron saysto say "hello", and that he wishes there were more hours in the day, as hewould like to be back amongst us. Martin,Here are the numbers for the Para 160 805 9010 11615 14720 18125 19030 20635 21240 23345 25050 26255 26560 28065 29570 30575 30580 30585 30590 30595 305100 305 these are averages measured over varnish. I don't think they are veryaccurate as the rod was refinished and I think brush varnished. But its aplace to start. Ron from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Feb 7 10:39:50 2001 f17Gdne17269 Subject: Building Forms Finally got tired of draw filing steel forms. Concluded I purchased thewrong steel and did not have the right files. Since it was back to thestarting point, I have now opted for wooden forms, since working with woodis a set of skills I already have, as opposed to metal working. Acquiredsome maple yesterday. Ripped it to 3/4"x2-1/2", screwed the piecestogetherand had a vigorous workout with my Stanley 5-1/2 to joint the edges. I amready to start drilling holes for adjustment screws and dowels and had a fewquestions. 1. Dowels. Everyone seems to recommend steel dowel pins. I don't have aready source for these (could probably find them, but it's work). Waswondering why not use maple or other hardwood dowels? 2. Screws and tapping. Tapping is not a skill I possess. The woodworkerssolution to this problem consists of either threaded brass inserts orT-nuts. T-nuts are readily availabe. threaded brass inserts would hvae tobe ordered, so I am inclined to go with T-nuts and plain old hex-head bolts(I'll go with allen head bolts if I can find them, but that's iffy locally).This will require that I space my push-bolt more than 1/2" from mypull-bolt, which seems to be the recommended distance. Is this a problem atall? I thought one solution would be an assembly in which the set screwpull-bolt and dowel are all placed fairly close together, with the dowel inthe center and directly on the 5" station mark (as opposed to the normallyrecommended set up in which the dowels are centered between stations. Anythoughts on this? Appreciate your help. from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Feb 7 10:58:06 2001 f17Gw5e18184 Subject: color toning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C090E4.117B2440 What's the latest wisdom as to color toning ( exposing to an atmosphere =of ammonia gas) strips before they are glued up as compared to toning =rod sections after they are glued up. Anyone tried it both ways?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C090E4.117B2440 What's the latest wisdom as to color = exposing to an atmosphere of ammonia gas) strips before they are glued = compared to toning rod sections after they are glued up. Anyone tried it = ways?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C090E4.117B2440-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Feb 7 11:15:40 2001 f17HFde19203 2001 09:15:41 PST Subject: Re: color toning hi ray, i never thought of toning after glue up. maybei will try this. i believe the only concenses reached from the last dicussion was to do it in the back yardand not in the basement. timothy --- Ray Gould wrote:What's the latest wisdom as to color toning (exposing to an atmosphere of ammonia gas) stripsbefore they are glued up as compared to toning rodsections after they are glued up. Anyone tried itboth ways?Ray ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.http://auctions.yahoo.com/ from zimmer@adams.net Wed Feb 7 12:24:39 2001 f17IOde21819 Subject: RE: Medved beveler This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C09102.2F8B6300 I have done 3 two tip rods with my version of the Medved beveler and =would offer a couple of suggestions: #1 dont use plexiglass for the tray ='s bolt and spring supports...you will be making new ones out of steel =fairly soon...the plexi cracks out from the drilled holes after a period =of use- I used stainless steel for the second version. #2 The plexi is =useful, however for designing a dust pickup that you can hook to your =vac or dust collector...I made one to just slide down over the face of =the machine and butt against the shield and tray. #3 Make sure all the =bolts that hold the holddowns and springs are snugged with loctite-(ask =me how I know that--pfft! there goes $30 router bit!!) #4 I made a =third tray assy with a 90* angle (30* and 60* in the manner of the =rough planing forms you can find on several of the fellows websites), in =order to easily start the bevel on one side of the strip. Thus, I find I =dont need the tray with the 3/8 inch square groove at all...hope all =this verbosity helps you with your beveler...Randy ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C09102.2F8B6300 I have done 3 two tip rods with my version of the Medved = and would offer a couple of suggestions: #1 dont use plexiglass for the = bolt and spring supports...you will be making new ones out of steel = soon...the plexi cracks out from the drilled holes after a period of = stainless steel for the second version. #2 The plexi is useful, however = designing a dust pickup that you can hook to your vac or dust = one to just slide down over the face of the machine and butt against the = and tray. #3 Make sure all the bolts that hold the holddowns and springs = snugged with loctite-(ask me how I know that--pfft! there goes $30 = fellows websites), in order to easily start the bevel on one side of the = Thus, I find I dont need the tray with the 3/8 inch square groove at = beveler...Randy ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C09102.2F8B6300-- from homessold@email.msn.com Wed Feb 7 12:53:06 2001 f17Ir5e22969 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:52:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Building Forms FILETIME=[307B2720:01C09137] JamesI made my wood forms a little wider, 2 pieces 1"x1.25" x64" from rock mapleso I could get more material for the bolt threads in the wood. Used 1/4-20hex head bolts with a washer countersunk .25", no dowels. I put the pullbolts on 5" centers and the push bolts 1/2" toward the center length fromeach end of the form. Take your pick of which side of the center 5" center.I checked the settings for a while after the initial planing, never moved.I've used the forms for about 3 years and they still work.Hope this helpsDon----- Original Message ----- Subject: Building Forms Finally got tired of draw filing steel forms. Concluded I purchased thewrong steel and did not have the right files. Since it was back to thestarting point, I have now opted for wooden forms, since working with woodis a set of skills I already have, as opposed to metal working. Acquiredsome maple yesterday. Ripped it to 3/4"x2-1/2", screwed the piecestogetherand had a vigorous workout with my Stanley 5-1/2 to joint the edges. I amready to start drilling holes for adjustment screws and dowels and had afewquestions. 1. Dowels. Everyone seems to recommend steel dowel pins. I don't have aready source for these (could probably find them, but it's work). Waswondering why not use maple or other hardwood dowels? 2. Screws and tapping. Tapping is not a skill I possess. Thewoodworkerssolution to this problem consists of either threaded brass inserts orT-nuts. T-nuts are readily availabe. threaded brass inserts would hvaetobe ordered, so I am inclined to go with T-nuts and plain old hex- headbolts(I'll go with allen head bolts if I can find them, but that's iffylocally).This will require that I space my push-bolt more than 1/2" from mypull-bolt, which seems to be the recommended distance. Is this a problematall? I thought one solution would be an assembly in which the set screwpull-bolt and dowel are all placed fairly close together, with the dowelinthe center and directly on the 5" station mark (as opposed to the normallyrecommended set up in which the dowels are centered between stations. Anythoughts on this? Appreciate your help. from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 7 13:27:21 2001 f17JRLe25325 Subject: re: lathes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C09111.D036D5A0 tony, item #36066-7rjb.and thanks nobler and harry for your input. i might as =well just break down and spend the 400 dollars for a good unit. on the bus still ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C09111.D036D5A0 tony, = catalogue on the second page, item #36066-7rjb.and thanks nobler and harry for = unit. bus still ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C09111.D036D5A0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Feb 7 13:37:36 2001 f17JbZe25877 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Para 16 What is the finished length? 8'2" or 8'3"? Ferrule size? Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Para 16 My Fellow Listers: Follows is the Para 16 taper as provided by our friend Ron Barch. Ron saysto say "hello", and that he wishes there were more hours in the day, as hewould like to be back amongst us. Martin,Here are the numbers for the Para 160 805 9010 11615 14720 18125 19030 20635 21240 23345 25050 26255 26560 28065 29570 30575 30580 30585 30590 30595 305100 305 these are averages measured over varnish. I don't think they are veryaccurate as the rod was refinished and I think brush varnished. But its aplace to start. Ron from zimmer@adams.net Wed Feb 7 13:52:00 2001 f17Jpxe26526 Subject: RE: Medved Beveler This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0910E.5EAC6560 http://www.shentel.net/canerod/HTML/ClassIndex.html Rex, try this link to plans and pix for Medved beveler ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0910E.5EAC6560 http://www.s=hentel.net/canerod/HTML/ClassIndex.html beveler ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0910E.5EAC6560-- from caneman@clnk.com Wed Feb 7 14:26:25 2001 f17KQOe28601 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:26:40 -0600 Subject: binder List,May not be the place to do this, but here goes, and flame me for it ifyou want. Anyone out there need a Garrison Style Binder. I am getting ridof one. If interested email me offlist for pics and details. Bob from Canerods@aol.com Wed Feb 7 14:34:08 2001 f17KY7e29245 Subject: Re: color toning --part1_d8.20aa98d.27b30b27_boundary In a message dated 2/7/01 8:58:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,rsgould@cmc.net writes: What's the latest wisdom as to color toning ( exposing to an atmosphere of ammonia gas) strips before they are glued up as compared to toning rod sections after they are glued up. Anyone tried it both ways?Ray I'd be interested in knowing if after gluing works. I do a lot of scarf repairs to rods (see Heddon #35 post ) If I could "browntone" scarf pieces to match the rod's cane color (colour for the Brits) in this manner it would solve a lot of appearance problems. Staining with Minwax stain sticks only goes so far. Don Burns --part1_d8.20aa98d.27b30b27_boundary In a message dated2/7/01 8:58:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, rsgould@cmc.net writes: What's the latest wisdom as to color toning ( exposing to anatmosphere of ammonia gas) strips before they are glued up as compared to toningrod sections after they are glued up. Anyone tried it bothways?Ray I'd be interested in knowing if after gluing works. I do a lot of scarf If I could "browntone" scarf pieces to match the rod's cane color (colour the Brits) in this manner it would solve a lot of appearance problems. Staining with Minwax stain sticks only goes so far. Don Burns --part1_d8.20aa98d.27b30b27_boundary-- from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Wed Feb 7 14:40:32 2001 f17KeVe29797 (62.188.10.164) Subject: test to see if e-mail working properly This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09145.4EC0C100 If this come through load and clear I have resloved the problems. ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*(=)_ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*(=)ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*=()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&=*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^=&*()_ ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09145.4EC0C100 If this come through load and clear I have resloved = problems. ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()_ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$=%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz=0987654321!"=A3$%^&*()_ ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09145.4EC0C100-- from jojo@ipa.net Wed Feb 7 15:05:38 2001 f17L5be01548 Subject: Re: Para 16 According to the PHY Rod Co. web site, the Para 16 is an 8'6", 6/7 wt,17/64" ferrule, with either a .078 or .086 tip. Seems I remember somewherereading that the butt was supposed to be .305. What is the finished length? 8'2" or 8'3"? Ferrule size? Darrell My Fellow Listers: Follows is the Para 16 taper . . . from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 15:34:13 2001 f17LYCe03052 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:33:53 -0600 Subject: Re: lathes I passed up an almost new 10" Atlas, in the local paper recently, that camewith allot of accessories. The price was $450 ! If I'd had the room, I'dhave picked it up for one of you guys. This is allot more lathe, until youget to the highest grade Jet, when it comes to imports. I got started on oneof these, and made pistons, rings, and the like on it.GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Feb 7 16:32:34 2001 (may be forged)) f17MWXe05424 Subject: RE: binder OK, Bob, how can we properly flame you if you don't tell us more about whyyou're getting rid of a Garrison style binder. -----Original Message----- Subject: binder List,May not be the place to do this, but here goes, and flame me for it ifyou want. Anyone out there need a Garrison Style Binder. I am getting ridof one. If interested email me offlist for pics and details. Bob from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Wed Feb 7 17:33:55 2001 f17NXne07275 (62.188.143.22) Subject: Re: test to see if e-mail working properly This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0915E.91BE6020 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:34 PMSubject: test to see if e-mail working properly If this come through load and clear I have resloved the problems. =ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*(=)_=ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*(=)ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*=()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&=*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^=&*()_ ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0915E.91BE6020 not quirte there yeyu----- Original Message = Cook Rodmakers = Sent: = February 07, 2001 8:34 PMSubject: = if e-mail working properly If this come through load and = resloved the problems. ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()_ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz09876=54321!"=A3$%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz=0987654321!"=A3$%^&*()_= ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0915E.91BE6020-- from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 7 17:38:47 2001 f17Ncje07510 Subject: Re: Para 16 Martin,Uh, any thoughts why they called a "16" if it has a "17"ferrule??????????? I thought that was HIS numbering system!Thanks,Art At 03:05 PM 02/07/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:According to the PHY Rod Co. web site, the Para 16 is an 8'6", 6/7 wt,17/64" ferrule, with either a .078 or .086 tip. Seems I remembersomewherereading that the butt was supposed to be .305. From: "Darrell Lee" What is the finished length? 8'2" or 8'3"? Ferrule size? Darrell My Fellow Listers: Follows is the Para 16 taper . . . from caneman@clnk.com Wed Feb 7 18:13:33 2001 f180DWe08568 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Darrell Lee" Subject: Re: Para 16 Ditto Arts thoughts... the P15 uses a 15 ferrule, the P14 uses a 14 ferrule,the P17 a 17 ferrule, I just assumed a P16 would be a 16 ferrule rod. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Para 16 Martin,Uh, any thoughts why they called a "16" if it has a "17"ferrule??????????? I thought that was HIS numbering system!Thanks,Art At 03:05 PM 02/07/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:According to the PHY Rod Co. web site, the Para 16 is an 8'6", 6/7 wt,17/64" ferrule, with either a .078 or .086 tip. Seems I remembersomewherereading that the butt was supposed to be .305. From: "Darrell Lee" What is the finished length? 8'2" or 8'3"? Ferrule size? Darrell My Fellow Listers: Follows is the Para 16 taper . . . from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Feb 7 18:50:22 2001 f180oLe09528 Subject: Orvis Taper for Danny T. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C090DA.448F82E0 It says on the tube it is a 5-6wt. ,but I use a 4 wt line on it and it =casts great!0 .076 40 .1705 .094 45 .19010 .111 50 .19415 .124 55 .20720 .133 60 .22625 .144 65 .23130 .159 70 .24635 .164 75 .26140 .170 80 .26185 .261Under the cork I guess to be about .261I'm gonna build one after my current project.Let me know if you build one and how it comes out.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C090DA.448F82E0 Danny here's the taper for that Orvis = It says on the tube it is a 5-6wt. ,but = wt line on it and it casts great! .170 .190 .194 .207 .226 .231 .246 .261 .261 .261I'm gonna build one after my project.Let me know if you build one and how it= out.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C090DA.448F82E0-- from oakmere@carol.net Wed Feb 7 18:59:40 2001 f180xde10060 Subject: RE: Heddon Varnish Ed and others: I am just in the process of refinishing a Heddon. The Heddon I am workingon was coated with orange shellac. If you touch it with alcohol it willstrip the rod. I don't know what you have on your rod, but it may not bevarnish, but shellac. Be careful. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from Canerods@aol.com Wed Feb 7 19:27:32 2001 f181RWe10917 Subject: WTD: short tip pieces --part1_bf.b6fa4a4.27b34f96_boundary All, Please forgive me to taking up bandwidth. I am in desperate need of several dozen 10" - 12" long tip scarfing pieces needed to repair rods. I will pay cash in advance for the first lot. I would like the pieces to match a Granger 8'0" rod taper for the length of the cane. If any budding rodmaker wants t make a few extra bucks to provide these tome contact me OFF LIST. That's at: canerods@aol.com Since these pieces are to be used for repairs, minor taper errors and other "learning curve" type problems won't matter to me. Second or third quality cane most likely won't matter and cutting the cane off at the nodes so that little or no node work is needed would be expected. I'm very serious about this and have customers waiting for rod repairs. Limited budget prevents me from buying the equipment to make my ownpieces at the moment. Thank you, Don Burns EMAIL me at: canerods@aol.com --part1_bf.b6fa4a4.27b34f96_boundary All, Please forgive me to taking up bandwidth. I am in desperate need ofseveral dozen 10" - 12" long tip scarfing pieces needed to repair rods. I will pay cash in advance for the first lot. I would like the pieces to match a Granger 8'0" rod taper for the lengthof the cane. If any budding rodmaker wants t make a few extra bucks to providethese to me contact me OFF LIST. Since these pieces are to be used for repairs, minor taper errors andother "learning curve" type problems won't matter to me. Second or third quality cane most likely won't matter and cutting thecane off at the nodes so that little or no node work is needed would beexpected. I'm very serious about this and have customers waiting for rod repairs. Limited budget prevents me from buying the equipment to make myown pieces at the moment. Thank you, Don Burns EMAIL me at: canerods@aol.com --part1_bf.b6fa4a4.27b34f96_boundary-- from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Feb 7 19:28:22 2001 f181SLe11037 Subject: Re: Spline This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C090DF.95C07A20 Stuart is a spline to a rod. You are doing the right thing by keepingthe strips together from the same section of the culm.However I do not think you need to line the no#1 flatup on the entire length of the rod. I feel that it is not the bamboo =itself that makes a certain flat week, but more likely a small =difference in the dimension after planning that creates a week flat. I =might be wrong here this is just mythinking on the subject. You should keep the strips together but after =you have a section glued and sanded you should find the spline. If the =no#1 flat on the butt section and the no#1 flat on the tip section are =180 off(for example) as long as the spline is correct your in. Also if =your trying to keep the strips in order while your splitting I would say =that is a unnecessary step. You only have to start tracking them after = Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C090DF.95C07A20 StuartI'm No expert on this subject, however= there is a spline to a rod. You are doing the = the strips together from the same = culm. to = no#1 flatup on the entire length of the = that it is not the bamboo itself that makes a certain flat week, but = a small difference in the dimension after planning that creates a week = might be wrong here this is just mythinking on the subject. You should = spline. If the no#1 flat on the butt section and the no#1 flat on the = section are 180 off(for example) as long as the spline is correct your = if your trying to keep the strips in order while your splitting I would = is a unnecessary step. You only have to start tracking them after = www.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C090DF.95C07A20-- from caneman@clnk.com Wed Feb 7 19:46:02 2001 f181k1e11596 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:46:03 -0600 Subject: Binder Gentlemen, Thanks for all the inquiries on the Binder. It has been sold. Thanks,Bob from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Feb 7 19:59:59 2001 f181xwe12029 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:59:41 -0800 Subject: Re: WTD: short tip pieces f181xwe12031 Hi Don, That brings up a use for those leftover culm ends. I typically have leftovers from 2' to 4' long or longer depending on what length and configuration ofrod. I sent some of these to a bowyer in Texas to determine if they wereusable for longbow backing or laminations. I never heard back so assumethat meant they aren't. I know that Tonkin bamboo use is claimed by manybowyers and have since read in one source that a 4" minimum culmcircumference is needed in making laminations for bows since they desire aflatter strip that's roughly 1" wide. Makes me wonder where they get theirsupply of 4"+ Tonkin culms. Maybe they don't actually use Tonkin after all. It probably doesn't matter since they are composite with other woods orsandwiched between fiberglass lams. Anyway, these culm end left overs could be used to fashion scarfing pieces nodes on your scarfed pieces if all you need is 12" lengths. The power fibersare thinner , but being in the very tip of the rod with a strip diameter of.035" to .050", there's usually plenty for that. Of course you have all the work of making these scarfing pieces whichinvolves all the planing, glueing, sanding, and all that fun stuff. The slopeover a 10" span wouldn't be more than about .030" for most tapers, butregardless you would have to fashion each scarfing tip as if it were a veryshort rod blank. It would be time consuming and would cost your customersmore, but it is an option if you can't find enough orphan tip sections. What you need is to get this bamboo, split a bunch of 12" to 15" stripsbetween the nodes and then find someone with a finish beveler who will run alarge supply in the common dimensions needed. You could then glue and bindthem yourself, do the scraping etc. Hand planing all these out would be very time consuming and expensive ifyou're after a large supply. I can supply you with bamboo, you do the cutting and splitting, and then findsomeone with a beveler to make the tapered triangle strips. Then back toyou for glue up etc. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu 02/07/01 05:25PM >>>All, Please forgive me to taking up bandwidth. I am in desperate need of several dozen 10" - 12" long tip scarfing pieces needed to repair rods. I will pay cash in advance for the first lot. I would like the pieces to match a Granger 8'0" rod taper for the length of the cane. If any budding rodmaker wants t make a few extra bucks to provide these tome contact me OFF LIST. That's at: canerods@aol.com Since these pieces are to be used for repairs, minor taper errors and other "learning curve" type problems won't matter to me. Second or third quality cane most likely won't matter and cutting the cane off at the nodes so that little or no node work is needed would be expected. I'm very serious about this and have customers waiting for rod repairs. Limited budget prevents me from buying the equipment to make my ownpieces at the moment. Thank you, Don Burns EMAIL me at: canerods@aol.com from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Feb 7 20:04:57 2001 f1824ue12292 Subject: Re: Orvis taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C090E4.B25C23A0 Hi ArtYou are correct there is no need for the extra 80 and 85I think I threw that in because I cut strips longer than necessary and =then I trim. Sorry about that. I'll bet you thought I had some special =trick up my sleeve! LOL ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C090E4.B25C23A0 Hi ArtYou are correct there is no need for = and 85I think I threw that in because I cut = than necessary and then I trim. Sorry about that. I'll bet you thought I = some special trick up my sleeve! LOLAlso it is a two piece rod. = Tony = ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C090E4.B25C23A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 20:20:52 2001 f182Kpe12700 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:20:25 -0600 "Darrell Lee" Subject: Re: Para 16 Beats me, as I have a Para #11, but perhaps that's the tip ferrule. I neverchecked it ! It's a 9.5' for WF-8 !GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 20:23:47 2001 f182Nke12908 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:23:21 -0600 "Darrell Lee" Subject: Re: Para 16 Perhaps a #16 because he already had a #17 ?????GMA from tfbinn@mindspring.com Wed Feb 7 20:34:39 2001 f182Yde13403 Subject: Urethane Bond adhesive This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C0914D.D65248C0 Bond glue, thanks much for all the info! Just to let anyone who's =interested know, Shannon Hatch at Easy Poxy Industrial Adhesives finally =did answer an e-mail about the availability of this stuff. It still can =be ordered from them at $3.75/tube, with a minimum order of three tubes.=The glue is called U-Bond now and their contact information is;Easy Poxy Industrial Adhesives2050 Eldorado DriveAllegany, New York 14706-9505Phone 716/372-7211E-Mail, easypoxy@juno.comI'm ordering enough to last for a loooong time!I certainly have no financial or other interest in promoting this =product, but I really like it's chacteristics and I know that many of =you do also, so I thought this info might be useful.Winston ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C0914D.D65248C0 = back about Urethane Bond glue, thanks much for all the info! Just to let = who's interested know, Shannon Hatch at Easy Poxy Industrial Adhesives = did answer an e-mail about the availability of this stuff. It still can = ordered from them at $3.75/tube, with a minimum order of three tubes. = is called U-Bond now and their contact information is;Easy Poxy Industrial =Adhesives2050 Eldorado DriveAllegany, New York =14706-9505Phone 716/372-7211E-Mail, easypoxy@juno.comI'm ordering enough to last for a = time!I certainly have no financial or other = that many of you do also, so I thought this info might be =useful.Winston ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C0914D.D65248C0-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Feb 7 21:22:40 2001 f183Mee14605 Subject: Re: Spline Stuart,I too, am no expert on this and I feel as Tony, that how the strips come out of the form dictates where the spline will occur. I also think that the culm as it's growing, creates it's own sline as it bends and resits prevailing winds. I would think that the bamboo would grow "thicker" and stronger to help strengthen itself from prevailing winds. At least it made sense to me when I read it somewhere. Ultimately after you've finished your planing, some strips will be just a hair bigger, or the strong side of the culm may just be a hair thinner and when glued up the resulting spline falls where it may.Mike from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Feb 7 21:28:33 2001 f183SXe14944 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:28:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Spline Stuart,I think you've asked some excellent questions. Unfortunately, I canthink of no intelligent response. Like you, I do my best to keep each stripin position, then fret with spline later. I don't worry so much about thetip to butt relationship as I do trying to mirror each tip. I had one rodon which I found it impossible. Harry Boyd stuart moultrie wrote: Hmmm.... After spending all that time choosing a culm, splitting as straight aspossible, marking the strips to make sure they are right next to eachother in the finished rod, keeping strip number one of the butt sectionin line with strip number one of the tip section, and generally doingnothing that would compromise the parallel path of the power fibers frombutt to tip, which should more or less give me a rod with the generalcharacteristics of the original culm (yes I have experimented with usingstrips from opposing positions in the culm)......... I am now supposedto roll my finished section on the workbench to find the "spline" and inthe process ignore the original butt to tip path the power fibers took!!! Does this mean that all the work I have put into keeping strips togetherand in line is pointless or that there is no "spline" that can be foundon a finished rod. Stuart --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Feb 7 22:06:47 2001 f1846je15925 Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:06:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Spline I'm certainly no expert, but after planning strips selected from a certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexes quicker ?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Feb 7 22:14:35 2001 f184EYe16203 Subject: Re: Spline rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, nobler@satx.rr.com writes: I think soMike from caneman@clnk.com Wed Feb 7 22:26:47 2001 f184Qle16673 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Spline I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking and I've onlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on. Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message----- ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: culm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexes quicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from rextutor@about.com Wed Feb 7 23:16:40 2001 f185Gee17764 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 21:16:35 -0800 Subject: Milward binder Hey gang thanksRexSign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from jczimny@dol.net Wed Feb 7 23:17:12 2001 f185HBe17849 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Spline Guy. It's not a spline. It's a spine.JohnZ Harry Boyd wrote: Stuart,I think you've asked some excellent questions. Unfortunately, I canthink of no intelligent response. Like you, I do my best to keep each stripin position, then fret with spline later. I don't worry so much about thetip to butt relationship as I do trying to mirror each tip. I had one rodon which I found it impossible. Harry Boyd stuart moultrie wrote: Hmmm.... After spending all that time choosing a culm, splitting as straight aspossible, marking the strips to make sure they are right next to eachother in the finished rod, keeping strip number one of the butt sectionin line with strip number one of the tip section, and generally doingnothing that would compromise the parallel path of the power fibersfrombutt to tip, which should more or less give me a rod with the generalcharacteristics of the original culm (yes I have experimented with usingstrips from opposing positions in the culm)......... I am now supposedto roll my finished section on the workbench to find the "spline" and inthe process ignore the original butt to tip path the power fibers took!!! Does this mean that all the work I have put into keeping strips togetherand in line is pointless or that there is no "spline" that can be foundon a finished rod. Stuart --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Feb 7 23:55:30 2001 f185tTe18693 Subject: Re: Spline ,Spine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C09104.E554A3C0 I always questioned the word spline. My thinking here was a spline was a =ridge or groove in a shaft that kept a gear from spinning off. And the =word spine made more sense becausea spine is along one side of the body. But then I read it inWayne's book that it is called a spline. Now I hear it is called a =spine. Which is it! LOL spline or spine. I was evenonce corrected by a non-rodmaker(in front of other people no less LOL) =that is was a spine not a spline. I just can't winwith this one. All in good fun! oh and then I just spell checked this =message and it said I spelled it wrong . It's spleen LOLTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C09104.E554A3C0 I always questioned the word spline. My= here was a spline was a ridge or groove in a shaft that kept a gear from = because = But then I read it inWayne's book that it is called a = it is called a spine. Which is it! LOL spline or spine. I was =evenonce corrected by a non-rodmaker(in = win It's spleen LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C09104.E554A3C0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Feb 8 00:26:15 2001 f186QEe19431 2001 22:26:15 PST Subject: Re: Spline ,Spine you glue up 6 splines to make the rod blank and thenyou find the spine of the rod to put the guides on. timothy --- Tony Miller wrote:I always questioned the word spline. My thinkinghere was a spline was a ridge or groove in a shaftthat kept a gear from spinning off. And the wordspine made more sense becausea spine is along one side of the body. But then Iread it inWayne's book that it is called a spline. Now I hearit is called a spine. Which is it! LOL spline orspine. I was evenonce corrected by a non-rodmaker(in front of otherpeople no less LOL) that is was a spine not aspline. I just can't winwith this one. All in good fun! oh and then I justspell checked this message and it said I spelled itwrong . It's spleen LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Feb 8 01:05:42 2001 f1875fe20110 2001 23:05:42 PST Subject: Fwd: Re: Spline ,Spine is this correct?--- timothy troester wrote: From: timothy troester Subject: Re: Spline ,Spine you glue up 6 splines to make the rod blank and thenyou find the spine of the rod to put the guides on. timothy --- Tony Miller wrote:I always questioned the word spline. My thinkinghere was a spline was a ridge or groove in a shaftthat kept a gear from spinning off. And the wordspine made more sense becausea spine is along one side of the body. But then Iread it inWayne's book that it is called a spline. Now Ihearit is called a spine. Which is it! LOL spline orspine. I was evenonce corrected by a non-rodmaker(in front of otherpeople no less LOL) that is was a spine not aspline. I just can't winwith this one. All in good fun! oh and then I justspell checked this message and it said I spelleditwrong . It's spleen LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu Feb 8 01:07:03 2001 f18772e20261 Subject: Re: Spline That's what I thought, but then I had another look at W.C's book and he calledita spline, I presumed it was an American version of spine. Now I know. Butdoes itexist? Stuart "J. C. Zimny" wrote: Guy. It's not a spline. It's a spine.JohnZ Harry Boyd wrote: Stuart,I think you've asked some excellent questions. Unfortunately, I canthink of no intelligent response. Like you, I do my best to keep each stripin position, then fret with spline later. I don't worry so much about thetip to butt relationship as I do trying to mirror each tip. I had one rodon which I found it impossible. Harry Boyd stuart moultrie wrote: Hmmm.... After spending all that time choosing a culm, splitting as straight aspossible, marking the strips to make sure they are right next to eachother in the finished rod, keeping strip number one of the butt sectionin line with strip number one of the tip section, and generally doingnothing that would compromise the parallel path of the power fibersfrombutt to tip, which should more or less give me a rod with the generalcharacteristics of the original culm (yes I have experimented with usingstrips from opposing positions in the culm)......... I am now supposedto roll my finished section on the workbench to find the "spline" and inthe process ignore the original butt to tip path the power fibers took!!! Does this mean that all the work I have put into keeping strips togetherand in line is pointless or that there is no "spline" that can be foundon a finished rod. Stuart --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu Feb 8 01:30:56 2001 f187Uoe20854 fwd00.sul.t-online.com Subject: Banty Rods Hello everybody, another request from the German guy who couldn't find what he waslooking for in the rodmakers archives. Since I am fishing small creekswith lots of bushes and trees, I've been looking for tapers for bantyrods, but couldn't find them in the archives (correction - justcouldn't get the right log files I guess). Does anybody have any tapers (Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de) - I don't want to bother the rest of the listwith a topic, that has been probably discussed more than one time. Sorry Regards Ralf from Germany from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu Feb 8 01:32:00 2001 f187Vxe21007 Subject: Spine Hi Bob, Do you match your tips? If so, how does one do this and follow eachsectionsindividual spine? How can I stagger nodes in a spiral from butt totipand stillfollow the spine? Should we view each section as totally independent ofeachother? When yes then there can be no real point in keeping split stripsin theorder that they come from the culm in. Is there anything to say that the sections then should not come from different culms? Thanks Stuart Bob Nunley wrote: I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking and I'veonlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on.Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexesquicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from ddeloach@pcisys.net Thu Feb 8 03:37:23 2001 f189bMe22523 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: group cork order? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0157_01C09178.481347A0 Gentlemen, is there a group cork order in-process right now? Could =someone please contact me off list, I am interested in a couple hundred =five star rings. ThanksDon D ------=_NextPart_000_0157_01C09178.481347A0 Gentlemen, is there a group cork order= right now? Could someone please contact me off list, I am interested in = hundred five star rings. ThanksDon D ------=_NextPart_000_0157_01C09178.481347A0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Feb 8 04:16:26 2001 f18AGIe22949 f18AFxW02979; Subject: Re: test to see if e-mail working properly Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C09213.49DB0BE0 Steve Not only does it work, but damn it man, you have got a POUND sign in =there!!! Peter Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:34 AMSubject: test to see if e-mail working properly If this come through load and clear I have resloved the problems. =ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*(=)_=ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*(=)ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&*=()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^&=*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$%^=&*()_ ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C09213.49DB0BE0 Steve Not only does it work, but damn it= have got a POUND sign in there!!! Peter ----- Original Message ----- SteVe Cook Sent: Thursday, February 08, = AMSubject: test to see if e-mail = properly If this come through load and clear I have = problems. ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()_=ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"=A3$=%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0987654321!"==A3$%^&*()ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz=0987654321!"=A3$%^&*()_= ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C09213.49DB0BE0-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Feb 8 04:30:55 2001 f18AUre23205 f18AUjW04565; Subject: Re: Spline Organization: vet This may be sort of nit-picking, I guess, but when you have planed and gluedyour 4,5,or 6 "splines" to make a rod section, and then test it to find thestrongest direction of flex, surely what you are finding is not yet another"spline", but in fact, the "spine" of the rod. Even plastic rods have them. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Spline Stuart,I think you've asked some excellent questions. Unfortunately, I canthink of no intelligent response. Like you, I do my best to keep eachstripin position, then fret with spline later. I don't worry so much about thetip to butt relationship as I do trying to mirror each tip. I had one rodon which I found it impossible. Harry Boyd stuart moultrie wrote: Hmmm.... After spending all that time choosing a culm, splitting as straight aspossible, marking the strips to make sure they are right next to eachother in the finished rod, keeping strip number one of the butt sectionin line with strip number one of the tip section, and generally doingnothing that would compromise the parallel path of the power fibersfrombutt to tip, which should more or less give me a rod with the generalcharacteristics of the original culm (yes I have experimented with usingstrips from opposing positions in the culm)......... I am now supposedto roll my finished section on the workbench to find the "spline" and inthe process ignore the original butt to tip path the power fibers took!!! Does this mean that all the work I have put into keeping strips togetherand in line is pointless or that there is no "spline" that can be foundon a finished rod. Stuart --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Feb 8 04:36:17 2001 f18AaFe23380 f18AaCW05222 Subject: Splines, spines Organization: vet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C09216.2129D7A0 Sorry about that, fellows; prime example of writing a note before you =read all the incoming stuff. Peter "It's a funny old world. A man's lucky if he gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C09216.2129D7A0 of writing a note before you read all the incoming =stuff. Peter "It's a funny old world. A man's = gets out of it alive."W C Fields ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C09216.2129D7A0-- from robert.warholm@home.com Thu Feb 8 06:19:28 2001 f18CJRe24684 ;Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:19:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Milward binder This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0918E.ED94A820 Here are some plans for the Milward binder so you have an idea of what =it looks Like. http://people.ne.mediaone.net/bconner/rodNframes.html I am not exactly clear on which is a better binder this or the garrison =however I am Just starting out and as of yet need to figure out which = The main difference between the two as I see it is that the Garrison =binder Clamps and Compresses the rod together prior to binding and this =one binds and compresses at the same time but is wrapping in both =directions on the same pass. I think this is suppose to elliminate =twisting of the rod while binding. I am also curious about which of these the list would recommend making. =the Garrison is definately Easier to construct in my mind but is there =enough advantages to the Milward binder to make it worth building this ="Power Toy". Thanks Rob W -----Original Message-----From: Rex Tutor Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:37 PMSubject: Milward binder Whats a Milward binder ? And can I see one on the net ?thanksRex ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0918E.ED94A820 Here are some plans for the Milward binder so you have = what it looks Like. http://peo=ple.ne.mediaone.net/bconner/rodNframes.html I amnot = which is a better binder this or the garrison however I am Just starting = Themain = Compresses the rod together prior to binding and this one binds and = at the same time but is wrapping in both directions on the same pass. I = binding. I amalso = Easier to construct in my mind but is there enough advantages to the = Toy". Thanks Rob =W -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:37 PMSubject:Milward = binder = ?thanksRexSign up for a free About Email = ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0918E.ED94A820-- from beadman@mac.com Thu Feb 8 06:47:42 2001 f18Clfe25082 Subject: Re: reel seat wood 1230486034==_ma============" --============_-1230486034==_ma============ At 8:17 AM -0600 on 2/7/01, Dave Norling wrote about reel seat wood I've been dealing with an outfit in Tacoma Wash. for small pieces of tightly burled wood suitable for reel seats. You don't have to buy the whole tree and the stuff they have sent me is the best I've seen. They hand pick small 1"x1"x 12" pieces for me and let me know ahead of time what they have. (color,wood type etc.) Price is good too.Try them: It's Lyle Parfrey lparfrey@nwrain.com Also a web site at www.nwwood.comNo commercial Interest etc. etc.Dave Norling Woodworking and Hardware. Address is 11773 Beaverton - Hillsdale Hwy Beaverton, OR, and their phone # is 503-672-7266. They specialize in unique woodworking and woodcarving tools, and have a good supply of special woods. Most of the special woods I saw had end grain of the pieces sealed with wax (to prevent too-rapid drying and checking). Also no commercial interest, etc.Claude--============_- 1230486034==_ma============ Re: reel seat woodAt 8:17 AM -0600 on 2/7/01, Dave Norling wrote about reel seatwood I've been dealingwith an outfit in Tacoma Wash. for small pieces of tightly burledwood suitable for reel seats. You don't have to buy the whole treeand the stuff they have sent me is the best I've seen. They hand picksmall 1"x1"x 12" pieces for me and let me know aheadof time what they have. (color,wood type etc.) Price is goodtoo. No commercialInterest etc. etc.DaveNorling Rockler - Hillsdale Hwy Beaverton, OR, and their phone # is Most of the special woods I saw had end grain of the pieces sealedwith wax (to prevent too-rapid drying and checking). Also no commercial interest, etc.Claude --============_-1230486034==_ma============-- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Feb 8 08:31:28 2001 f18EVRe26942 Subject: Re: Para 16 Art,Nada. All's I know is what the PHY Rod Co. site has to say about it, andthat with the tapered provided the only way a 16 ferrule is going to work isif you turn down the station, or have staggered length sections.M-D Martin,Uh, any thoughts why they called a "16" if it has a "17"ferrule??????????? I thought that was HIS numbering system!Thanks,Art At 03:05 PM 02/07/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:According to the PHY Rod Co. web site, the Para 16 is an 8'6", 6/7 wt,17/64" ferrule, with either a .078 or .086 tip. Seems I remembersomewherereading that the butt was supposed to be .305. From: "Darrell Lee" What is the finished length? 8'2" or 8'3"? Ferrule size? Darrell My Fellow Listers: Follows is the Para 16 taper . . . from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Feb 8 09:03:05 2001 f18F34e28441 Subject: Re: Heddon Varnish Frank: Now I'm really curious! My #17 has an orange hue as well. Again, I haven'tseen another Heddon up close...wondering if it's the norm. The wraps aregood, but there's some "speckling" there, probably caused by the use of adifferent liquid in the color preservation process.. I'm now leaning towardstripping it. I'd prefer to salvage the black writing but can probablyreplicate that if necessary. Also, would prefer not to re-wrap but that's aminor issue. The cork has about 1/4" of the orange on it from too deep adip...should I fool with that to determine if it's shellac? I haven'tdealt with shellac before. I'll be using spar in the refinishing. Tell memore.Thanks.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Heddon Varnish Ed and others: I am just in the process of refinishing a Heddon. The Heddon I am workingon was coated with orange shellac. If you touch it with alcohol it willstrip the rod. I don't know what you have on your rod, but it may not bevarnish, but shellac. Be careful. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from canazon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 8 09:05:35 2001 f18F5Ye28652 Subject: re: lathes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C091B6.67957F60 rexthe company was Central Machinery , out of the harbor frieght = mike canazon still on the bus ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C091B6.67957F60 rex Machinery = the harbor frieght catalogue. canazon still on the bus ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C091B6.67957F60-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 8 09:18:50 2001 f18FIne29388 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:18:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Spline ,Spine Perhaps its semantics, but when you plane away all the pith, and keep mostlythe power fibers, who can explain the fact that a given blank will usuallyflex more at one side when rotating the blank ? I've built allot of composite rods, and fish cane over 50 years, but neverknew to look for the "spline" ! Tony Spezio had to show me, last Sept., andit certainly was there. I helped a little in building me a PHY Para #15while learning much more, and it measured exactly to all the numbers, whenit was finished ! I'd think this most unusual ? GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 8 09:28:15 2001 f18FSEe29879 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:27:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Heddon Varnish Sinclair's book states that Heddon air brushed their rods, with varnish Ibelieve. I don't recall any mention of shellac. What type of varnish isanyone's guess !GMA from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Feb 8 10:02:12 2001 f18G2Be01713 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:02:07 -0800 Subject: Heddon? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C091A5.74D4AC20 Good morning All, Recently I have seen a couple of discussions about Heddon rods. I amreferring to the inherent problem of breaking above a ferrule and thepossibility that these rods are finished with shellac. I have spent the last week following the rod auctions on eBay and notcounting the high-end private makers, the Heddons and Grangers seem to bethe most sought after rods. Are these rods popular because ofcollect-ability, i.e. several models and availability, or because they are agood fishing tool? I see more references to identification than I do aboutcasting qualities and fish- ability. I would like to read your opinions on this subject. As always, thank youone and all, in advance. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C091A5.74D4AC20 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010208T160218ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C091A5.74D4AC20-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Feb 8 10:04:17 2001 f18G4Fe01961 0500 Subject: Epon 828 vs. 815C vs. Urac Does anyone know how much heat a rod made with Epon 828 can take vs onemadewith 815C or Urac? I have been at the Resolution Performance Products siteand didn't find info on a melting point or breakdown point for Epon once ithad fully cured. I am curious exactly how well a rod made with any of thesethree would hold up under a heat gun or a hot car window. I have been using 815C. I am happy with it but am considering trying either828 or Urac. 815C was recommended to my friend (who bought the batchwe'vebeen using) by the manufacturer for rod building. I believe it was becauseof its superior wetting characteristics, but I understand a lot of you use828. I did read most of the archives on rodmakers for Epon and Urac butdidn't see specific numbers on heat resistance. Thanks in advance, Andy from Canerods@aol.com Thu Feb 8 10:18:58 2001 f18GIve02827 Subject: Re: Heddon Varnish --part1_ac.10b72882.27b420cd_boundary In a message dated 2/8/01 7:03:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: Frank: Now I'm really curious! My #17 has an orange hue as well. Again, I haven'tseen another Heddon up close...wondering if it's the norm. The wraps aregood, but there's some "speckling" there, probably caused by the use of adifferent liquid in the color preservation process.. I'm now leaning towardstripping it. I'd prefer to salvage the black writing but can probablyreplicate that if necessary. Also, would prefer not to re-wrap but that's aminor issue. The cork has about 1/4" of the orange on it from too deep adip...should I fool with that to determine if it's shellac? I haven'tdealt with shellac before. I'll be using spar in the refinishing. Tell memore.Thanks.Ed Ed, I believe Heddon sprayed their rods. Maybe they added some funny solventsor shellac to thin the varnish? Don Burns --part1_ac.10b72882.27b420cd_boundary In a message dated2/8/01 7:03:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: Frank: wraps aregood, but there's some "speckling" there, probably caused by the use ofa toward probably but that's a too deep a haven't memore.Thanks.Ed Ed, I believe Heddon sprayed their rods. Maybe they added some funnysolvents or shellac to thin the varnish? Don Burns --part1_ac.10b72882.27b420cd_boundary-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 8 10:19:41 2001 f18GJee02993 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:19:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Heddon? I've about decided the high prices Heddon's bring, comes from the verypretty cosmetics they have/had. from all reports here, it is not because oftheir quality, when compared to the "masters" output !GMA from rextutor@about.com Thu Feb 8 10:40:07 2001 f18Ge5e04864 (NPlex 5.1.050) Subject: Re: group cork order? I would like to be included in that , too . Ifthat is okay ?thanksRexSign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Feb 8 11:27:30 2001 f18HRTe06904 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:27:17 -0800 Subject: Spine, Spline Same thing ???? f18HRUe06906 My dictionary says that a wooden or metal strip is a spline. When you test abamboo rod for a spine you find the spline with the most flex, so you couldsay you're "finding" the spine or "finding" the spline, either works in thiscontext, right? For graphite it seems it would only make sense to sayyou're finding the spine since it is not made up of splines. Guys who makegraphite rods probably feel compelled to correct a bamboo rodmakers use ofthe words, but in a bamboo rodmakers context either word can apply to whatthey are doing. This makes sense to me anyway. Chris. from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Feb 8 11:36:29 2001 f18HaSe07417 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:37:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Spline ,Spine That is the way I would put it,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com timothy troester wrote: is this correct?--- timothy troester wrote: From: timothy troester Subject: Re: Spline ,Spine you glue up 6 splines to make the rod blank and thenyou find the spine of the rod to put the guides on.timothy --- Tony Miller wrote:I always questioned the word spline. My thinkinghere was a spline was a ridge or groove in a shaftthat kept a gear from spinning off. And the wordspine made more sense becausea spine is along one side of the body. But then Iread it inWayne's book that it is called a spline. Now Ihearit is called a spine. Which is it! LOL spline orspine. I was evenonce corrected by a non-rodmaker(in front of otherpeople no less LOL) that is was a spine not aspline. I just can't winwith this one. All in good fun! oh and then I justspell checked this message and it said I spelleditwrong . It's spleen LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -only $35a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Feb 8 11:40:09 2001 f18He8e07701 Subject: Fw: Heddon Varnish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C091CC.766BB520 Don, George, et. al:If Heddon sprayed this rod after the grip was mounted, I gotta believe =they'd have masked the cork better than what I'm looking at. Someone =must've dipped this before it became mine. Appreciate the help from =all.Ed Subject: Re: Heddon Varnish Now I'm really curious! My #17 has an orange hue as well. Again, I = seen another Heddon up close...wondering if it's the norm. The wraps = good, but there's some "speckling" there, probably caused by the use = different liquid in the color preservation process.. I'm now leaning = stripping it. I'd prefer to salvage the black writing but can = replicate that if necessary. Also, would prefer not to re-wrap but = minor issue. The cork has about 1/4" of the orange on it from too = dip...should I fool with that to determine if it's shellac? I = dealt with shellac before. I'll be using spar in the refinishing. = I believe Heddon sprayed their rods. Maybe they added some funny = ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C091CC.766BB520 Don, George, et. al:If Heddon sprayed this rod after the grip was = believe they'd have masked the cork better than what I'm looking = from all.Ed From: Cc: rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:18 AMSubject: Re: Heddon VarnishIn amessage = 7:03:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, edriddle@mindspring.com = an = some "speckling" there, probably caused by the use of a different = from too deep a dip...should I fool with that to determine if it's = Ed, I believe Heddon sprayedtheir = Maybe they added some funny solvents or shellac to thin the varnish? = Don Burns ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C091CC.766BB520-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Feb 8 11:46:32 2001 f18HkVe08201 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:45:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Heddon Varnish I've seen new Heddon's still in the plastic grip cover. No varnish on thecork at all !GMA from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Feb 8 11:49:41 2001 f18Hnfe08488 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:49:36 -0800 Subject: Dream Rod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C091B4.789D7620 Hello All, I am asking for your recommendations of a taper for myself. I like tofish medium to small waters. I will lean toward smaller waters withrestricted casting room. I use mostly dries and emergers in the 14 -18 sizerange and also, non-weighted hair's ears. I would like to feel the line in the rod grip on medium to short casts.Forty feet would be a long cast so, fifteen to thirty feet would be theworking range. Accuracy and delicate presentation is everything. I do not have a particular length in mind but, would like to stay on theshort side do to the brushy conditions. Looking forward to hearing youropinions. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C091B4.789D7620 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010208T174946ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C091B4.789D7620-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 8 11:56:15 2001 f18HuEe08927 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Heddon Varnish I doubt that was the original finish... it was probably refinished withinthe last 50 years with the shellac... IMNSHO Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heddon Varnish Frank: Now I'm really curious! My #17 has an orange hue as well. Again, I haven'tseen another Heddon up close...wondering if it's the norm. The wraps aregood, but there's some "speckling" there, probably caused by the use of adifferent liquid in the color preservation process.. I'm now leaning towardstripping it. I'd prefer to salvage the black writing but can probablyreplicate that if necessary. Also, would prefer not to re-wrap but that's aminor issue. The cork has about 1/4" of the orange on it from too deep adip...should I fool with that to determine if it's shellac? I haven'tdealt with shellac before. I'll be using spar in the refinishing. Tell memore.Thanks.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Heddon Varnish Ed and others: I am just in the process of refinishing a Heddon. The Heddon I am workingon was coated with orange shellac. If you touch it with alcohol it willstrip the rod. I don't know what you have on your rod, but it may not bevarnish, but shellac. Be careful. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Feb 8 11:58:39 2001 f18HwYe09123 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:58:31 +0000 Subject: Re: test to see if e-mail working properly A truly great unit of currency !!!!!.......Paul from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Feb 8 11:58:42 2001 f18Hwfe09132 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:58:19 +0000 Subject: Re: test to see if e-mail working properly A trult great unit of currency !!!!!.......Paul from caneman@clnk.com Thu Feb 8 12:12:10 2001 f18IC9e10120 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:12:13 -0600 Subject: a bit off subject Well, there's good news and bad news out of the State of Oklahoma.... Goodnews is that a new state record brown was caught in the Lower MountainForkriver in S.E. Oklahoma, weighing 9 pounds 10.5 ounces. The previous recordstood for 4 years at 7 pounds 12 ounces. Good news is this tells me thatthe browns are thriving in this relatively new fishery... Bad news is thatthe fish is dead. Shame, cause the brown trout program in this river isrelatively new, not even a decade old, I don't think, and a fish of thissize and quality would have been a continuous asset to the stream.Oh, caught by a spin fisher, not a flyfisher... so I guess me, Harry andKen have our work cut out for us, to break this record with a cane rod! Later,Bob Later,Bob from iank@ts.co.nz Thu Feb 8 12:15:49 2001 f18IFle10342 07:13:59 +1300 Subject: finding spines and splines All this talk of splines and spines has reminded me that I have recentlychanged my method of finding "IT". For many years I had used the traditionalrolling at an angle etc and feeling for the "kick". It always seemed alittle hit and miss and it was possible to imagine there was a kick or getmore then one kick and being uncertain which was the best one to use. somewhere. ( I cannot remember where but my acknowledgement) . It isquitesimple to use and seems to give the right answer. I initially tried it as a"check" of the rolling method but now use it all the time. This methodinvolves holding the rod section by one end , usually the thinner end, andletting it hang down vertically. Lower the thicker end carefully to thefloor keeping the section vertical. When the bottom of the section isresting on the floor put your finger on the top and press down , being sureto press straight down. Under a certain amount of pressure the rod willassume a bend , and this is the spine. This is a quick and easy method to check the spine on completed rods whenthe guides can get in the way of the rolling method. It is wise to repeat the process 3-4 times to ensure that you have notpushed downward at some slight angle and have not got the right spine. . Maybe most people are aware of this method but to me it was new , and veryeasy to use. Ian from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 8 12:18:37 2001 f18IIae10593 Subject: Help ! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_014F_01C0916C.B19373A0 Ok I messed up!I have glued allot of sections up ,but this is a first time problem for =me. I glued a tip up and I must have mixed the glue(epoxy ) wrong and it =was still kind of soft. I noticedthat there is a section that didn't glue in the middle of the tip. What =do I do start over,or try to peel the strips apartand try to reglue? If it is peel strips apart should I heat them up for =that ,and how would I clean them up? I knew this day would come. Any =help on this would be appreciated! what would happen I'd have the rod fly apart on me . And It would =probably happen when I get the first chance to meet all you guys LOL. =That's my Luck LOL ------=_NextPart_000_014F_01C0916C.B19373A0 Ok I messed up!I have glued allot of sections up ,but = first time problem for me. I glued a tip up and I must have mixed the = ) wrong and it was still kind of soft. I noticedthat there is a section that didn't = apartand try to reglue? If it is peel strips = should I heat them up for that ,and how would I clean them up? I knew = would come. Any help on this would be appreciated!I thought to just reglue the spot of = ,but I know what would happen I'd have the rod fly = . And It would probably happen when I get the first chance to meet all = LOL. That's my Luck LOL ------=_NextPart_000_014F_01C0916C.B19373A0-- from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 8 12:20:59 2001 f18IKxe10788 Subject: RE: Dream Rod Hi Dick,This is fun. If I was to go 61/2' - no question in my mind...Payne 96 61/2' #4 line. At 7' If we are talking accuracy and delicacy we will stayaway from the parabolics. A very acurate 7' rod that you still feel in thehandle is the old (mid-70"s) Leonard 38H. The newer 38H you would feel tofar up the butt. Both of those rods would cast the same distance. The 38Hwould control the line on the water a little better. My 2 cents.......Rich -----Original Message----- Subject: Dream Rod Hello All, I am asking for your recommendations of a taper for myself. I like tofish medium to small waters. I will lean toward smaller waters withrestricted casting room. I use mostly dries and emergers in the 14 -18 sizerange and also, non-weighted hair's ears. I would like to feel the line in the rod grip on medium to short casts.Forty feet would be a long cast so, fifteen to thirty feet would be theworking range. Accuracy and delicate presentation is everything. I do not have a particular length in mind but, would like to stay on theshort side do to the brushy conditions. Looking forward to hearing youropinions. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 8 12:22:30 2001 f18IMUe10994 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Heddon? Heddons and Grangers are quite sought after for many reasons. They areeasyto identify, they are well documented in print, from the taper of the rod,right down to the wrap colors and ferrule sizes. They were accessible to theblue collar fisher to the wealthy gentleman in the classic days. Every rodthey made was a good fishing rod with the high end rods being excellentrods. So people can today buy a Heddon/Granger and be fairly confident ofgetting a good fishing rod today if it has not been abused. This is one reason that the high grade Montagues and Horrocks Ibbotsonshavebeen generally neglected... meaning that Monty and H-I built some realcrapola when it came to their low end rods... I think that is a quote fromAJ Campbell in his book if I recall... which is fine by me since I like tocollect the high grade Montys. But I also own just about every model ofHeddon from a #35 on down... although I don't consider myself a Heddoncollector... weird. In the Monty line in the same year, you could havebought a rod for under a buck or up to $50.00 in the 1930's... $50.00 wasabout 1-2 weeks wages! A Granger Special was selling for about $9.75-$12.00at the time. Anybody have any Monty Powerbuilts they want to part with? 8^) Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Heddon? Good morning All, Recently I have seen a couple of discussions about Heddon rods. I amreferring to the inherent problem of breaking above a ferrule and thepossibility that these rods are finished with shellac. I have spent the last week following the rod auctions on eBay and notcounting the high-end private makers, the Heddons and Grangers seem to bethe most sought after rods. Are these rods popular because ofcollect-ability, i.e. several models and availability, or because they are agood fishing tool? I see more references to identification than I do aboutcasting qualities and fish- ability. I would like to read your opinions on this subject. As always, thank youone and all, in advance. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 8 14:24:02 2001 f18KO1e17396 Subject: Re: Spine Stuart,I split my tip STRIPS (not splines) from the same double-pieces (2 no.1's, 2 no. 2's etc.) and then the tips are exactly the same. I thought alldid that....Art At 08:33 AM 02/08/2001 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote:Hi Bob, Do you match your tips? If so, how does one do this and follow eachsectionsindividual spine? How can I stagger nodes in a spiral from butt totipand stillfollow the spine? Should we view each section as totally independent ofeachother? When yes then there can be no real point in keeping split stripsin theorder that they come from the culm in. Is there anything to say that the sections then should not come from different culms? Thanks Stuart Bob Nunley wrote: I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking and I'veonlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on.Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexesquicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Feb 8 14:42:19 2001 (may be forged)) f18KgJe18280 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Spine Art -- This isn't exactly the issue you raised, but your comment reminds me....Inever have understood the fetish about making a rod all from the same culm.This could not have anything to do with consistency of the bamboo. Oppositesides of the same culm are different in many cases, while matching ispossible when you mix strips from different culms, if matching matters thatmuch. It can't be a matter of quality in any practical sense, since theability to choose the best strips from multiple culms is at least as good away to guarantee quality of the material itself. I can only think that thisis one of those arbitrary and challenging approaches that gives peoplepleasure, rather than a matter of craftsmanship or quality in any othersense. Not that I'm against it for that reason. After all, fishing with bamboo oreven plastic poles is an arbitrary and challenging way to get a trout.(Plastic explosives work much better if you don't use too much.) So if it'smore fun to make a rod this way, go for it and enjoy it. But when this kindof thing gets cloaked in the aura of virtuous craftsmanship (not that yousaid this, Art, but it's not uncommon), as if anyone doing otherwise is asomewhat lower form of life, I instinctively look upwind to locate thestockyards I'm smelling. Sorry, I think I got a bit carried away. But no, not everyone does this. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spine Stuart,I split my tip STRIPS (not splines) from the same double-pieces (2no.1's, 2 no. 2's etc.) and then the tips are exactly the same. I thought alldid that....Art At 08:33 AM 02/08/2001 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote:Hi Bob, Do you match your tips? If so, how does one do this and follow eachsectionsindividual spine? How can I stagger nodes in a spiral from butt totipand stillfollow the spine? Should we view each section as totally independent ofeachother? When yes then there can be no real point in keeping split stripsin theorder that they come from the culm in. Is there anything to say that the sections then should not come from different culms? Thanks Stuart Bob Nunley wrote: I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking and I'veonlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on.Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexesquicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Feb 8 14:57:59 2001 f18Kvwe19057 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: finding spines and splines on thing to remember folks, when looking for the spine.the diameter of the rod is composed of two strips (or splines), each ofwhich contributes to the resistence to bending.when rolling the bent section on your leg, looking for the spine, you willnotice there are two "kicks" or "jumps", one stronger than the other, eachon OPPOSITE FLATS. it makes sense when you realize that the weak spline iscontributing to the way the section bends in each direction. most rodmakersbelieve the guides go on the concavity of the side that "kicks" harder,supposedly this provides the greatest rod control for accuracy, althoughsome folks do the opposite, to provide the maximum rod spring on the backcast (people who are into distance and power casting). chris -----Original Message----- Subject: finding spines and splines All this talk of splines and spines has reminded me that I have recentlychanged my method of finding "IT". For many years I had used the traditionalrolling at an angle etc and feeling for the "kick". It always seemed alittle hit and miss and it was possible to imagine there was a kick or getmore then one kick and being uncertain which was the best one to use. somewhere. ( I cannot remember where but my acknowledgement) . It isquitesimple to use and seems to give the right answer. I initially tried it as a"check" of the rolling method but now use it all the time. This methodinvolves holding the rod section by one end , usually the thinner end, andletting it hang down vertically. Lower the thicker end carefully to thefloor keeping the section vertical. When the bottom of the section isresting on the floor put your finger on the top and press down , being sureto press straight down. Under a certain amount of pressure the rod willassume a bend , and this is the spine. This is a quick and easy method to check the spine on completed rods whenthe guides can get in the way of the rolling method. It is wise to repeat the process 3-4 times to ensure that you have notpushed downward at some slight angle and have not got the right spine. . Maybe most people are aware of this method but to me it was new , and veryeasy to use. Ian from Gerald.Buckley@Thrifty.com Thu Feb 8 15:27:49 2001 f18LRme20672 via csmap (V1.5) Subject: RE: Heddon? CRENRichard - I had the good fortune of a great buy on a fine 3/2 Heddon Black Beauty lastyear and two weeks ago fished it on the White River and Puppy Creek (justacross the OK/AR border from Tulsa where I live). It's a bit longer of a rodthan I'd prefer but it lays the line out nice and in order. The casts andflies were true and landed me a couple fish and it responded well for themorning's tour(ie. no broken glue, no crazed varnish or shellac as it mayturn out to be, and the ferrules remained nice and tight). I'd vote for the "good fishing tool" line of thought on the #17. But, then Ialso haven't had the extremely good fortune of owning any of the past ormodern master's rods... So, take my vote for what it's worth without havingmuch to compare to - My vote's a dimpled chad perhaps. :) Gerald from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 8 15:35:17 2001 f18LZGe21116 Subject: [Fwd: Dream Rod] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 3E6B92C0196F138479AF511A Yes Jerry I do, but don't have photo's. I have the taper of the 96beacause I just sold it. Had the rod for almost 30 years... It's stillat the house, will miss it but because of it's length didn't fish itmuch .But I found a Payne 198 that I feel in love with and couldn'tjustify having both. The 38H is also downstairs but I don't have thetaper on that but am getting a good caliper soon....will talk to againsoon.....Rich --------------3E6B92C0196F138479AF511A 2001 12:08:17 PST Subject: RE: Dream Rod Rich, Do you actually won these rods and, if so, could I possibly take alook? I'm getting ready to start a rod in this size range in thenext few weeks and i'm still undecided on the taper. I'm in Boulder. Jerry --- Richard Colo wrote:Hi Dick,This is fun. If I was to go 61/2' - no question in mymind...Payne 96 61/2' #4 line. At 7' If we are talking accuracy and delicacy wewill stayaway from the parabolics. A very acurate 7' rod that you stillfeel in thehandle is the old (mid-70"s) Leonard 38H. The newer 38H you wouldfeel tofar up the butt. Both of those rods would cast the same distance. The 38Hwould control the line on the water a little better. My 2cents.......Rich -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DutcherSent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:50 PM Subject: Dream Rod Hello All, I am asking for your recommendations of a taper for myself. Ilike tofish medium to small waters. I will lean toward smaller waters withrestricted casting room. I use mostly dries and emergers in the 14-18 sizerange and also, non-weighted hair's ears. I would like to feel the line in the rod grip on medium toshort casts.Forty feet would be a long cast so, fifteen to thirty feet would betheworking range. Accuracy and delicate presentation is everything. I do not have a particular length in mind but, would like tostay on theshort side do to the brushy conditions. Looking forward to hearingyouropinions. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------3E6B92C0196F138479AF511A-- from dr.matro@airmail.net Thu Feb 8 16:10:31 2001 f18MAVe22806 sender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Re: a bit off subject Hey, Bob Jesse at Three Rivers said the fish was caught on a medium size goldspoon. I think I've still got a few #2 Whore-Hook Specials that I tiedup for my last saltwater trip. If you've got one, bring a fast 8-wt forMonday. I feel a new quest comming on. Ken from Canerods@aol.com Thu Feb 8 16:32:47 2001 f18MWfe23914 Subject: Re: Heddon? --part1_f3.753c23e.27b47875_boundary Heddon and Granger are collected because so many of our fathers and grandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonards are collected. Leonard and Goodwin Granger rods are both rods that were very expensive in their day and both made in reasonable quanity. W&M Granger rods were made in quanities appoaching Heddon's hugevolumes. I think Heddon comes out on the bottom-end on any comparison. Crappyvarnish, crappy reelseats (most later era plastic) and no care as to node spacing. But why spend over $1,200 on a 7'6" Granger or 7'0" Heddon when you canbuy many new rods (made by 60% of the rodmaker list people) for less moneyand have a finer rod. The other 40% of the list will sell you a rod for not much more. Regarding Heddon #35 rods - I like them, but I also like a Montague Fishkill just as much. Try finding a short Fishkill - I'll bet 10 #35's show up for every Fishkill. What to look for a short Montague Manitou? I'll bet the ratio is 100:1 or higher. The real sleeper rods in my mind are the high-end Montague (as Darrell said) and for the real tight wads - some lighter action 100 series South Bends. I've got an 8'6" S.B. #137 (?) that you'd be hard pressed to measure the taper difference to a Granger 8'6" rod. Don Burns --part1_f3.753c23e.27b47875_boundary Heddon and Granger arecollected because so many of our fathers and grandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonards arecollected. Leonard and Goodwin Granger rods are both rods that were veryexpensive in their day and both made in reasonable quanity. W&M Granger rods were made in quanities appoaching Heddon'shuge volumes. I think Heddon comes out on the bottom-end on any comparison. Crappyvarnish, crappy reelseats (most later era plastic) and no care as to nodespacing. But why spend over $1,200 on a 7'6" Granger or 7'0" Heddon when youcan buy many new rods (made by 60% of the rodmaker list people) for lessmoney and have a finer rod. The other 40% of the list will sell you a rod for notmuch more. Regarding Heddon #35 rods - I like them, but I also like a MontagueFishkill just as much. Try finding a short Fishkill - I'll bet 10 #35's show up for every Fishkill. What to look for a short Montague Manitou? I'll bet theratio is 100:1 or higher. The real sleeper rods in my mind are the high-end Montague (as Darrell said) and for the real tight wads - some lighteraction 100 series South Bends. I've got an 8'6" S.B. #137 (?) that you'd behard pressed to measure the taper difference to a Granger 8'6" rod. Don Burns --part1_f3.753c23e.27b47875_boundary-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Feb 8 16:44:28 2001 f18MiRe24767 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:44:27 +0100 Subject: Sv: Dream Rod f18MiRe24768 The Perfectionist (surprised?) regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dream Rod Hello All, I am asking for your recommendations of a taper for myself. I like tofish medium to small waters. I will lean toward smaller waters withrestricted casting room. I use mostly dries and emergers in the 14 -18sizerange and also, non-weighted hair's ears. I would like to feel the line in the rod grip on medium to short casts.Forty feet would be a long cast so, fifteen to thirty feet would be theworking range. Accuracy and delicate presentation is everything. I do not have a particular length in mind but, would like to stay on theshort side do to the brushy conditions. Looking forward to hearing youropinions. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from Kengorific@aol.com Thu Feb 8 17:14:36 2001 f18NEZe26145 Subject: (no subject) Has anyone on the list had experience purchasing bamboo through AndyRoyer, The Bamboo Broker. I know Charles Demarest has a solid reputation amongthe list, but I can get three times the raw material from Andy for the same price. As a novice I think I might need the extra material for 'learning curve' from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Feb 8 17:16:41 2001 f18NGee26319 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Sv: Dream Rod would like to stay on theshort side do to the brushy conditions. You are looking for the Midge....... danny from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Feb 8 17:33:24 2001 f18NXNe27386 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:31:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Heddon? --------------D239A452A274350777E2B5AC Don,Sounds to me like you, and a coupla other folks likeDarrell, know more than a little bit about some pretty nicerods that are highly collectible but still somewhataffordable. For instance, I've been looking for a Heddonunder 8' for quite some time. As high priced as they are, Imay be looking quite a while longer.You guys care to give us a little education? What SouthBends, Shakespeares, Monty's and H-I's should the rest ofus be looking out for? I just restored a Shakespeare A1362Spring Brook. It's pretty much of a club. But I didn'tknow that till I was finished. A little information fromsome of you would be a big help.What did your sig line used to be, Don? Something aboutwishing your collected Garrisons and Paynes, but reallycollecting Monty's? Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote: Heddon and Granger are collected because so many of ourfathers andgrandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonardsare collected. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------D239A452A274350777E2B5AC Don, like Darrell, know more than a little bit about some pretty nice rods that priced as they are, I may be looking quite a while longer. big help. Somethingabout wishing your collected Garrisons and Paynes, but really collectingMonty's? Canerods@aol.com wrote:Heddonand Granger are collected because so many of our fathersandgrandfathers fished them.Funny, nobody asks why Leonards arecollected. --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------D239A452A274350777E2B5AC-- from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 8 17:35:47 2001 f18NZke27637 Subject: Re:Help! conclusion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C09198.FF0443E0 I was able to separate the strips (glue was soft enough)Got them cleaned up and reglued. We got a warm frontthrough Ohio, so I was not sure if it was that the glue was mixed wrong = mix this time LOL. Thanks for the help! ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C09198.FF0443E0 Well I was able to separate the strips (glue = enough)Got them cleaned up and reglued. Wegot = front = the glue was mixed wrong or a humidity factor. You can bet I measured = help! ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C09198.FF0443E0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 8 17:44:05 2001 f18Ni4e28278 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Heddon? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C091E3.C0BA1C40 Hey, not TOO much publicity for the Monty's... okay Don? It'll cost memore... Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Heddon? Heddon and Granger are collected because so many of our fathers andgrandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonards are collected. Leonard and Goodwin Granger rods are both rods that were very expensiveintheir day and both made in reasonable quanity. W&M Granger rods were made in quanities appoaching Heddon's hugevolumes. I think Heddon comes out on the bottom-end on any comparison. Crappyvarnish,crappy reelseats (most later era plastic) and no care as to node spacing. But why spend over $1,200 on a 7'6" Granger or 7'0" Heddon when you canbuymany new rods (made by 60% of the rodmaker list people) for less moneyandhave a finer rod. The other 40% of the list will sell you a rod for notmuchmore. Regarding Heddon #35 rods - I like them, but I also like a MontagueFishkilljust as much. Try finding a short Fishkill - I'll bet 10 #35's show up forevery Fishkill. What to look for a short Montague Manitou? I'll bet theratiois 100:1 or higher. The real sleeper rods in my mind are the high-endMontague (as Darrell said) and for the real tight wads - some lighteraction100 series South Bends. I've got an 8'6" S.B. #137 (?) that you'd be hardpressed to measure the taper difference to a Granger 8'6" rod. Don Burns ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C091E3.C0BA1C40 more... Darrell Canerods@aol.comSent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 Granger are collected because so many of our fathers and = fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonards are collected. = and Goodwin Granger rods are both rods that were very expensive in = day and both made in reasonable quanity. W&M Granger rods= made in quanities appoaching Heddon's huge volumes. I think = comes out on the bottom-end on any comparison. Crappy varnish, = reelseats (most later era plastic) and no care as to node spacing. = why spend over $1,200 on a 7'6" Granger or 7'0" Heddon when you can = many new rods (made by 60% of the rodmaker list people) for less = have a finer rod. The other 40% of the list will sell you a rod = much more. Regarding Heddon #35 rods - I like them, but I = like a Montague Fishkill just as much. Try finding a short = bet 10 #35's show up for every Fishkill. What to look for a short = Manitou? I'll bet the ratio is 100:1 or higher. The real sleeper = my mind are the high-end Montague (as Darrell said) and for the = wads - some lighter action 100 series South Bends. I've got an = #137 (?) that you'd be hard pressed to measure the taper = ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C091E3.C0BA1C40-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Feb 8 17:46:10 2001 f18Nk9e28457 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:45:52 -0800 Subject: RE: Royer Bamboo f18NkAe28458 Chris Obuchowski and I went up to Seattle and bought a truckload lastSummer. I'm only just getting into these particular culms, but they have nogrowers marks or burn marks. I consider what we bought excellent quality. Andy showed us photo's of his trips to China and was a very pleasant personto buy from. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu 02/08/01 03:14PM >>>Has anyone on the list had experience purchasing bamboo through AndyRoyer, The Bamboo Broker. I know Charles Demarest has a solid reputation amongthe list, but I can get three times the raw material from Andy for the same price. As a novice I think I might need the extra material for 'learning curve' from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 8 17:50:10 2001 f18No9e28854 Subject: Re: Heddon? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C0919B.015E75A0 I don't understand how they put a value on most rods. as good of hardware as any Leonard(maybe better) I'm ducking my head! I =didn't say cast better.LOLAll nickel silver parts,Agate stripper ,swelled butt ,well documented =and limited compared to Heddons. It was twice the rod Heddon was,so why =are Heddons valued higher?Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C0919B.015E75A0 = most rods.Take my favorite the Devine's. They = as good of hardware as any = I'm ducking my head! I didn't say cast better.LOLAll nickel silver parts,Agate stripper = butt ,well documented and limited compared to Heddons. It was twice the = Heddon was,so why are Heddons valued higher?Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C0919B.015E75A0-- from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Feb 8 18:10:57 2001 f190Aue29718 Subject: Re: Banty Rods In a message dated 2/8/01 1:31:30 AM Central Standard Time, Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de writes: wait wait wait! DO post them to the list. I like little rods too!mark from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Feb 8 18:13:28 2001 f190DRe29891 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Royer Bamboo i'll second chris Mcdowell's remarks.i too have just started using the canewe got from andy. of the two bales that i got (twenty culms)four have wormholes or leaf nodes i'll have to work around (losing probably less than aquarter of the strips from the culms). maybe four more have quite a bit ofcurvature, but they have not been straightened by the chinese (read asburned or otherwise destroyed), so i can straighten the split strips myself.and probably half of them are BEAUTIFUL.andy picks each culm (around 2000 or so) by hand himself each trip.he gives a small price break for 4 or more bales, and a big price break forgreater than 21 bales. i have dealt with both the Demerests and mr. royer quite happily, and haveonly good to say about them both. just my two cents. christopher obuchowski -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Royer Bamboo Chris Obuchowski and I went up to Seattle and bought a truckload lastSummer. I'm only just getting into these particular culms, but they have nogrowers marks or burn marks. I consider what we bought excellent quality.Andy showed us photo's of his trips to China and was a very pleasant personto buy from. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu 02/08/01 03:14PM >>>Has anyone on the list had experience purchasing bamboo through AndyRoyer, The Bamboo Broker. I know Charles Demarest has a solid reputation amongthe list, but I can get three times the raw material from Andy for the same price. As a novice I think I might need the extra material for 'learning curve' from oakmere@carol.net Thu Feb 8 18:40:03 2001 f190e2e00800 Subject: RE: Heddon Varnish Ed and others: With a little care I was able to completely salvage the black writing of"The Pine" on the rod I have. Generally covered the writing and then workedit very very carefully to not do any damage to the writing. The rod is inthe recoating process with varnish. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from oakmere@carol.net Thu Feb 8 18:43:01 2001 f190h0e00993 Subject: Re: Heddon Varnish Hi Ed: I am not an expert but the alcohol dissolves shellac. So you might try alittle spot and see. When I cut off the wraps, the silk thread was whiteunderneath and goldy-orange on top. That was the shellac. I also then tookthe alcohol and attacked one of the wraps and found that I could remove theorange shellac and have white wraps remaining. Interesting. Best, Frank At 10:04 AM 2/8/01 -0500, you wrote:Frank: Now I'm really curious! My #17 has an orange hue as well. Again, I haven'tseen another Heddon up close...wondering if it's the norm. The wraps aregood, but there's some "speckling" there, probably caused by the use of adifferent liquid in the color preservation process.. I'm now leaning towardstripping it. I'd prefer to salvage the black writing but can probablyreplicate that if necessary. Also, would prefer not to re-wrap but that's aminor issue. The cork has about 1/4" of the orange on it from too deep adip...should I fool with that to determine if it's shellac? I haven'tdealt with shellac before. I'll be using spar in the refinishing. Tell memore.Thanks.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "Frank W. Paul" Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 7:50 PMSubject: RE: Heddon Varnish Ed and others: I am just in the process of refinishing a Heddon. The Heddon I am workingon was coated with orange shellac. If you touch it with alcohol it willstrip the rod. I don't know what you have on your rod, but it may not bevarnish, but shellac. Be careful. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from dnorl@qwest.net Thu Feb 8 18:45:02 2001 f190j1e01149 (63.228.46.158) Subject: Re: Dream Rod Guess why they call the rod Perfectionist.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Dream Rod Hello All, I am asking for your recommendations of a taper for myself. I like tofish medium to small waters. I will lean toward smaller waters withrestricted casting room. I use mostly dries and emergers in the 14 -18sizerange and also, non-weighted hair's ears. I would like to feel the line in the rod grip on medium to short casts.Forty feet would be a long cast so, fifteen to thirty feet would be theworking range. Accuracy and delicate presentation is everything. I do not have a particular length in mind but, would like to stay ontheshort side do to the brushy conditions. Looking forward to hearing youropinions. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Thu Feb 8 18:51:50 2001 f190pme01585 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:50:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Heddon? --=====================_14409330==_.ALT HI Harry:2 rods that fall into your category that I have and enjoy are a South Bend Cross #1500 7'6" 5wt and an HI Tonka Queen 7'9" 5 wt. They are both fantastic rods that could be had for a good price. Although I see Tonka Queens all the time for $250 (a good buy), I wish I could buy more of the South Bend Cross rods. That's what I would collect if I had the time. Jordan's tapers are great and the SB Cross rods are undervalued, I believe.Best regards,Bob At 05:30 PM 2/8/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Don,Sounds to me like you, and a coupla other folks like Darrell, know more than a little bit about some pretty nice rods that are highly collectible but still somewhat affordable. For instance, I've been looking for a Heddon under 8' for quite some time. As high priced as they are, I may be looking quite a while longer.You guys care to give us a little education? What South Bends, Shakespeares, Monty's and H- I's should the rest of us be looking out for? I just restored a Shakespeare A1362 Spring Brook. It's pretty much of a club. But I didn't know that till I was finished. A little information from some of you would be a big help.What did your sig line used to be, Don? Something about wishing your collected Garrisons and Paynes, but really collecting Monty's? Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote:Heddon and Granger are collected because so many of our fathers andgrandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonards arecollected. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_14409330==_.ALT HI Harry:2 rods that fall into your category that I have and enjoy are a SouthBend Cross #1500 7'6" 5wt and an HI Tonka Queen 7'9" 5 wt.Theyare both fantastic rods that could be had for a good price. Although Isee Tonka Queens all the time for $250 (a good buy), I wish I could buymore of the South Bend Cross rods. That's what I would collect if I hadthe time. Jordan's tapers are great and the SB Cross rods areundervalued, I believe.Best regards,Bob At 05:30 PM 2/8/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Don, Darrell, know more than a little bit about some pretty nice rods that are high priced as they are, I may be looking quite a while longer. would be a big help. Something about wishing your collected Garrisons and Paynes, but reallycollecting Monty's? Canerods@aol.com wrote: Heddon and Grangerare collected because so many of our fathers and grandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody askswhy Leonards are collected. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Bamboo Rods Our Church Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_14409330==_.ALT-- from ddeloach@pcisys.net Thu Feb 8 19:03:07 2001 f19136e02111 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: group cork order--done Guys, thx for the replies on the group cork order--I've placed an order withDarrell Lee. Don from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 8 19:06:34 2001 f1916Xe02356 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Restoration Handbook - Michael Sinclair This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C091EE.69307040 Harry, Like all VINTAGE cane fly rods, the shorter the more expensive... and under8' is the 7.5' Heddons which is one of the more expensive Heddons regardlessof models... Longer NEW rods today are more expensive which is the opposite... that is ofcourse because, a 3 piece takes more time and parts to build than a 2 piecerod... Yes the 1362 is a broomstick made by South Bend...but if you find anEDWARDSor a HEDDON built Shakespeare... you will be plesantly surprised how nicethey are... Same with the other private label rods made by good companies...Those are the best buys... I recently picked up a "Marshall Fields Store forMen" rod... made by Granger! Don has one made by Heddon! And I told him tobuy that one... I still kick myself as it was advertised as an 8' rod andit was a 7.5' rod for a BARGAIN price! Don, you still owe me! Or theHeddon Black Beauty 8' I told him to buy... When I saw that one... I wasagain bummed! It had a rare cork reel seat. The high grade South Bend rods are as good as the Heddons and Grangersbutagain, you need to know WHICH ones are the good ones so to find out, youneed a Michael Sinclair Bamboo Fly rod Restoration Handbook which tells youwhich ones are the good ones... This book is a must have for anyone whocollects or restores vintage/classic rods. Here's the link to find thebook... www.vfish.net/sinclair.htm Michael is having some health issues and cannot work on rods for at least ayear according to an email I received from him yesterday. So, buy his booksto help him out. The Divine book is out of print. He also wrote the Heddonbook as well which is available. I also have a few autographed copiesavailable as well. But these will probably be the last ones because of theabove reason. It took him about a month to sign this last batch I justreceived. Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:31 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Heddon? Don,Sounds to me like you, and a coupla other folks like Darrell, knowmore than a little bit about some pretty nice rods that are highlycollectible but still somewhat affordable. For instance, I've been looking may be looking quite a while longer.You guys care to give us a little education? What South Bends,Shakespeares, Monty's and H-I's should the rest of us be looking out for?I just restored a Shakespeare A1362 Spring Brook. It's pretty much of aclub. But I didn't know that till I was finished. A little information from some of you would be a big help.What did your sig line used to be, Don? Something about wishing yourcollected Garrisons and Paynes, but really collecting Monty's?Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote: Heddon and Granger are collected because so many of our fathers andgrandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonards arecollected. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C091EE.69307040 all VINTAGE cane fly rods, the shorter the more expensive... = is the 7.5' Heddons which is one of the more expensive Heddons = models... that is of course because, a 3 piece takes more time and parts to build = piece rod... the 1362 is a broomstick made by South Bend...but if you find an EDWARDS= HEDDON built Shakespeare... you will be plesantly surprised how nice = Same with the other private label rods made by good companies... Those = best buys... I recently picked up a "Marshall Fields Store for Men" = Black Beauty 8' I told him to buy... When I saw that one... I was again = It had a rare cork reel seat. high grade South Bend rods are as good as the Heddons and Grangers but = you need to know WHICH ones are the good ones so to find out, you need a = book... www.vfish.net/sinclair.htm= Michael is having some health issues and cannot work on rods = a year according to an email I received from him yesterday. So, buy his = Heddon book as well which is available. I also have a few autographed = above reason. It took him about a month to sign this last batch I just = Darrell Leewww.vfish.net BoydSent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:31 Canerods@aol.comCc: = Sounds to = you, and a coupla other folks like Darrell, know more than a little = Granger are collected because so many of our fathers = grandfathers fished= Funny, nobody asks why Leonards are =collected. ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C091EE.69307040-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Feb 8 19:06:35 2001 f1916Ye02358 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Collecting cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C091EE.6A7E9B20 There are fewer Divine collectors, but they still go for a good price... AskDean... he's one of the biggest collectors of Divine. Also, the rod's aremore of the antique variety which I feel are way undervalued... even the10'ers. Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:47 AM Subject: Re: Heddon? I don't understand how they put a value on most rods.Take my favorite the Devine's. They were built withas good of hardware as any Leonard(maybe better) I'm ducking my head! Ididn't say cast better.LOLAll nickel silver parts,Agate stripper ,swelled butt ,well documented andlimited compared to Heddons. It was twice the rod Heddon was,so why areHeddons valued higher?Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C091EE.6A7E9B20 are fewer Divine collectors, but they still go for a good price... Ask = the antique variety which I feel are way undervalued... even the 10'ers. = Darrell