MillerSent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:47 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: =Heddon? = most rods.Take my favorite the Devine's. They = as good of hardware as any = I'm ducking my head! I didn't say cast better.LOLAll nickel silver parts,Agate = butt ,well documented and limited compared to Heddons. It was twice = Heddon was,so why are Heddons valued higher?Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C091EE.6A7E9B20-- from goodaple@tcac.net Thu Feb 8 19:17:23 2001 f191HNe02950 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Re: group cork order? Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01B0_01C09204.10366A60 Count me in as well. For a couple hundred rings. Thanks, Randall R. =Gregory NW AR. Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:40 AMSubject: Re: group cork order? I would like to be included in that , too . If that is okay ?thanksRex ------=_NextPart_000_01B0_01C09204.10366A60 Count me in as well. For a couple = Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Rex= Sent: Thursday, February 08, = AMSubject: Re: group cork =order? I would like to be included in that , too . If that = okay?thanksRexSign up for a free About Email account at = = ------=_NextPart_000_01B0_01C09204.10366A60-- from HomeyDKlown@att.net Thu Feb 8 19:20:09 2001 f191K9e03147 ;Fri, 9 Feb 2001 01:20:05 +0000 Subject: Re: Banty Rods I'll second that!! I have Ed Shenck's (sp?) disease. I love shortflyrods. Please post. Dennis Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/8/01 1:31:30 AM Central Standard Time,Ralf.Ladda@t- online.de writes: another request from the German guy who couldn't find what he waslooking for in the rodmakers archives. Since I am fishing small creekswith lots of bushes and trees, I've been looking for tapers for bantyrods, but couldn't find them in the archives (correction - justcouldn't get the right log files I guess). Does anybody have any tapers (Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de) - I don't want to bother the rest of the listwith a topic, that has been probably discussed more than one time. Sorry Regards Ralf from Germany wait wait wait! DO post them to the list. I like little rods too!mark from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Feb 8 19:22:25 2001 f191MOe03315 Subject: Re: Heddon? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0920D.3D1B3FC0 Well, I'd hate to start aany arguments, but Heddon made many wonderful =flyrods. Some of the earlier rods have cedar or walnut inserts over =nickle siver reel seats, and the ns over plastic was state of the art =when they made them. (Though Heddalyn was pretty bad). Node spacing =was considered wrt adjacent nodes, and the better grade rods got better =node work. The masses were very taken with plastic from WW II to the =early '60's. The varnish issue is probably moot, I've seen many =Heddon's with nice varnish jobs, and I've seen several leonards with =crappy varnish as well. I think a lot has to do with how they were = I think that Heddon made tons of really good rods, and lots of great = Heddon at the bottom-end of the comparison with their contemporaies? I =just don't buy that. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0920D.3D1B3FC0 Well, I'd hate to start aany= cedar or walnut inserts over nickle siver reel seats, and the ns over = I think that Heddon = really good rods, and lots of great rods (#14, #17, #20, #35, #50, = Heddon at the bottom-endof = that. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0920D.3D1B3FC0-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Feb 8 19:32:45 2001 f191Wie03832 Subject: Fw: Heddon? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0920E.769BE6E0 Hi Harry:Bob gives good advice. For those of you interested in the old =production rods, I recommend Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration =Handbook" ($25.00). Therein is an extensive listing of Monty's, =Divine's, H- I's, Heddon's, S.B's, Granger's, Phillipson's, =Shakespeare's, etc., provided primarily for identification/restoration =puposes; however, in addition, those rod's i.d.'d with nickle silver =ferrules (versus chrome plated brass) jump up as preferred (sorry =Darrell)... Tapers aren't listed, as casting/fishability takes a back =seat to collection and restoration in this volume... no financial =connection, blah, blah, but it's a great fireside reader between Gierach =books.Hope I haven't bombed your bandwidth.Ed Subject: Re: Heddon? HI Harry:2 rods that fall into your category that I have and enjoy are a South =Bend Cross #1500 7'6" 5wt and an HI Tonka Queen 7'9" 5 wt. They are both=fantastic rods that could be had for a good price. Although I see Tonka =Queens all the time for $250 (a good buy), I wish I could buy more of =the South Bend Cross rods. That's what I would collect if I had the =time. Jordan's tapers are great and the SB Cross rods are undervalued, I =believe.Best regards,Bob At 05:30 PM 2/8/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Sounds to me like you, and a coupla other folks like Darrell, know =more than a little bit about some pretty nice rods that are highly =collectible but still somewhat affordable. For instance, I've been =looking for a Heddon under 8' for quite some time. As high priced as = You guys care to give us a little education? What South Bends, =Shakespeares, Monty's and H-I's should the rest of us be looking out =for? I just restored a Shakespeare A1362 Spring Brook. It's pretty =much of a club. But I didn't know that till I was finished. A little = What did your sig line used to be, Don? Something about wishing = grandfathers fished them. Funny, nobody asks why Leonards are =collected. Bob Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0920E.769BE6E0 Hi Harry: Shakespeare's, etc., provided primarily for identification/restoration = however, in addition, those rod's i.d.'d with nickle silver ferrules = listed, as casting/fishability takes a back seat to collection and = in this volume... no financial connection, blah, blah, but it's a great = reader between Gierach books.Hope I haven't bombed yourbandwidth.Ed From: maulucci Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:49 PMSubject: Re: Heddon?HI Harry:2 rods that fall into your category that I = enjoy are a South Bend Cross #1500 7'6" 5wt and an HI Tonka Queen 7'9" 5 = They are both fantastic rods that could be had for a good price. = Tonka Queens all the time for $250 (a good buy), I wish I could buy more = South Bend Cross rods. That's what I would collect if I had the time. = tapers are great and the SB Cross rods are undervalued, I = regards,BobAt 05:30 PM 2/8/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd=wrote: me = you, and a coupla other folks like Darrell, know more than a little = Canerods@aol.com wrote: Heddon and Granger are collected = collected.-- Harry Boyd"Simon = Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhttp://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218= AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523= bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com= ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0920E.769BE6E0-- from channer1@rmi.net Thu Feb 8 19:33:50 2001 f191Xoe03994 Subject: Re: lathes Mike;You can't even buy a decent drill for $64.00, what kind of lathe do youthink you are going to get for that amount? the first thing you need tocheck is if it has a hole thru the spindle, this sounds like an importwood lathe to me and most of them have a solid spindle.John mike canazon wrote: rexthe company was Central Machinery , out of the harbor frieghtcatalogue. mike canazon still on the bus from channer1@rmi.net Thu Feb 8 19:48:10 2001 f191m9e04649 Subject: Re: Spine Barry;It's another one of the fetishes started by Everett Garrison, few if anyof the production companies(including Payne, Leonard and Dickerson, allof whom used strips from 2 culms in a rod) did this. think about it, ifyou are working alone in your basement, making rods one at a time,doesn't it keep the clutter down to just deal with one culm at a time?John "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Art -- This isn't exactly the issue you raised, but your comment reminds me....Inever have understood the fetish about making a rod all from the sameculm.This could not have anything to do with consistency of the bamboo.Oppositesides of the same culm are different in many cases, while matching ispossible when you mix strips from different culms, if matching mattersthatmuch. It can't be a matter of quality in any practical sense, since theability to choose the best strips from multiple culms is at least as good away to guarantee quality of the material itself. I can only think that thisis one of those arbitrary and challenging approaches that gives peoplepleasure, rather than a matter of craftsmanship or quality in any othersense. Not that I'm against it for that reason. After all, fishing with bamboo oreven plastic poles is an arbitrary and challenging way to get a trout.(Plastic explosives work much better if you don't use too much.) So if it'smore fun to make a rod this way, go for it and enjoy it. But when this kindof thing gets cloaked in the aura of virtuous craftsmanship (not that yousaid this, Art, but it's not uncommon), as if anyone doing otherwise is asomewhat lower form of life, I instinctively look upwind to locate thestockyards I'm smelling. Sorry, I think I got a bit carried away. But no, not everyone does this. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Spine Stuart,I split my tip STRIPS (not splines) from the same double-pieces (2no.1's, 2 no. 2's etc.) and then the tips are exactly the same. I thought alldid that....Art At 08:33 AM 02/08/2001 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote:Hi Bob, Do you match your tips? If so, how does one do this and follow eachsectionsindividual spine? How can I stagger nodes in a spiral from butt totipand stillfollow the spine? Should we view each section as totally independent ofeachother? When yes then there can be no real point in keeping split stripsin theorder that they come from the culm in. Is there anything to say that the sections then should not come from different culms? Thanks Stuart Bob Nunley wrote: I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking and I'veonlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on.Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexesquicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 8 19:50:37 2001 f191oae04818 Subject: Sanding blocks To all who have ordered sanding blocks they are in the USPS and on the way. I still have a few left if anyone else is interested.Bret from Canerods@aol.com Thu Feb 8 19:51:09 2001 f191p5e04910 Subject: Re: Heddon? --part1_5a.10e1aff4.27b4a6f6_boundary In a message dated 2/8/01 4:52:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, bmaulucci@adelphia.net writes: HI Harry:2 rods that fall into your category that I have and enjoy are a South Bend Cross #1500 7'6" 5wt and an HI Tonka Queen 7'9" 5 wt. They are both fantastic rods that could be had for a good price. Although I see Tonka Queens all the time for $250 (a good buy), I wish I could buy more of the South Bend Cross rods. That's what I would collect if I had the time. Jordan's tapers are great and the SB Cross rods are undervalued, I believe.Best regards,Bob Bob, steals if the phase of the moon etc. Heddon rods that are in need of rewrap are the best deal and look for 9' or 8''6" Montagues that have the mid range rolled welt STRAIGHT female NS ferrule (may be chromed - remember thiswas when chrome meant quality) or even hand welted Montagues. Say models of Splitswitch and above. But watch out for and stay away from the bait-cast/fly rod combo's. And don't buy the Rapidan's with chrome-plated brass bottle ferrules. Darrell makes a living at selling these things to eBay newbie punters. If the ferrules aren't cracked they soon will be. Any Heddon with rolled-welt rods - some of these can be had for $100. But watch out for the "square shoulder" hand welt Heddon rods in the models#14 - #20 and the Sears #115 & /#125. These ferrules are the only dogs in theHedon line. The rolled welt and the hand welted higher-end ferrules are fine, while the square ones seem to crack. All Heddons share the same taper for thesame ferrule size - more guides and better metal pieces are the only difference except for cane quality. Put more guides on a cheap Heddon and it is a nice rod. Also almost all high grade H-I and better S.B. rods with dry fly trout tapers are also okay. Any Granger rod that sneaks under $200. The $201 - to $350 range is where some nice rods can be had still. Short Montagues (7'0" & 7'6" - 2/2) of mostly Fishkill and above. H-I Tonka Queen, but not the Tonka Prince or Princess. The 7'6" S.B. 260, 290 and 291 are steals at $200 and sometimes can be had for well under $200. Any single tip 7'6" or 8'0" Heddon rods that fall into this price range are also good rods. "Beater" 8'6" or 8'0" Granger rods will fall into the higher end of this price range. If you can scarf repair tips on the 8'0" Granger rods then you might find a good deal. Some made in the UK rods will be decent dealsbecause most people stay away from them. Above this price - Look for quality shorter Heddons, Granger, a few Leonards and used modern rods. Above $650 - why aren't you buying new from AJ et al. IMHO, Don Burns --part1_5a.10e1aff4.27b4a6f6_boundary In a message dated2/8/01 4:52:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, bmaulucci@adelphia.net writes: HI Harry:2 rods that fall into your category that I have and enjoy are a SouthBend Cross #1500 7'6" 5wt and an HI Tonka Queen 7'9" 5 wt. They are both fantastic rods that could be had for a good price. Although I see Tonka Queens all the time for $250 (a good buy), I wish I could buy more of the South Bend Cross rods. That's what I would collect if I had the time. Jordan's tapers are great and the SB Cross rods are undervalued, Ibelieve.Best regards,Bob Bob, few steals if the phase of the moon etc. Heddon rods that are in need ofrewrap are the best deal and look for 9' or 8''6" Montagues that have the midrange rolled welt STRAIGHT female NS ferrule (may be chromed - rememberthis was when chrome meant quality) or even hand welted Montagues. Saymodels of Splitswitch and above. But watch out for and stay away from the bait-cast/fly rod combo's. And don't buy the Rapidan's with chrome-plated brass bottle ferrules.Darrell makes a living at selling these things to eBay newbie punters. If the ferrules aren't cracked they soon will be. Any Heddon with rolled-welt rods - some of these can be had for $100.But watch out for the "square shoulder" hand welt Heddon rods in themodels #14 - #20 and the Sears #115 & /#125. These ferrules are the onlydogs in the Hedon line. The rolled welt and the hand welted higher-end ferrules are fine,while the square ones seem to crack. All Heddons share the same taper forthe same ferrule size - more guides and better metal pieces are the onlydifference except for cane quality. Put more guides on a cheap Heddon and it is anice rod. Also almost all high grade H-I and better S.B. rods with dry fly trouttapers are also okay. Any Granger rod that sneaks under $200. The $201 - to $350 range is where some nice rods can be had still.Short Montagues (7'0" & 7'6" - 2/2) of mostly Fishkill and above. H-ITonka Queen, but not the Tonka Prince or Princess. The 7'6" S.B. 260, 290 and 291are steals at $200 and sometimes can be had for well under $200. Anysingle tip 7'6" or 8'0" Heddon rods that fall into this price range are also goodrods. this price range. If you can scarf repair tips on the 8'0" Granger rods thenyou might find a good deal. Some made in the UK rods will be decent dealsbecause most people stay away from them. Above this price - Look for quality shorter Heddons, Granger, a fewLeonards and used modern rods. Above $650 - why aren't you buying new from AJ et al. IMHO, Don Burns --part1_5a.10e1aff4.27b4a6f6_boundary-- from dickay@alltel.net Thu Feb 8 20:17:15 2001 f192HEe05913 srv.alltel.net Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:17:15 -0600 Subject: Re: lathes John, Mike, I got the Spring Harbor Freight catalogue yesterday and thatsame wood lathe is now $129.00. Mike, I don't think that this is what youwant. You could turn ferrule stations and cork grips if the spindle ishollow, but not much more. Shawn Pineos Franken Lathe would allow you todothat for less money.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: lathes Mike;You can't even buy a decent drill for $64.00, what kind of lathe do youthink you are going to get for that amount? the first thing you need tocheck is if it has a hole thru the spindle, this sounds like an importwood lathe to me and most of them have a solid spindle.John mike canazon wrote: rexthe company was Central Machinery , out of the harbor frieghtcatalogue. mike canazon still on the bus from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Feb 8 20:24:54 2001 f192Ore06332 Subject: Re: Fw: Heddon? Sounds like I've received lots of good advice. Best adviceI got was, "Save your money -- you build a better rod thanany of these." I do hope that's true. But I appreciate allthe input as well. Harry Ed Riddle wrote: Bob gives good advice. For those of you interested in theold production rods, I recommend Michael Sinclair's"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" ($25.00). Therein is anextensive listing of Monty's, Divine's, H-I's, Heddon's,S.B's, Granger's, Phillipson's, Shakespeare's, etc.,provided primarily for identification/restoration puposes;however, in addition, those rod's i.d.'d with nicklesilver ferrules (versus chrome plated brass) jump up aspreferred (sorry Darrell)... Tapers aren't listed, ascasting/fishability takes a back seat to collection andrestoration in this volume... no financial connection,blah, blah, but it's a great fireside reader betweenGierach books.Hope I haven't bombed your bandwidth. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Feb 8 20:25:13 2001 f192PCe06347 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Restoration Handbook - Michael Sinclair I am sorry to hear about Mike's health problems. He told me that he hadpurchased the Divine Trade marks and was about to begin making newDivines. I hope he has a speedy recovery and gets his project on track. I am not a rod historian like Mike but I do have most of the makes ofrods recently discussed on the list (Granger, Heddon, Edwards, HI-Highend, Monte Fishkill & South Bends, Divines etc). Each has its good pointsand bad. Most of these points do not correlate as well with the maker'sname as with the model and vintage. For example, Heddons were made innumerous models from the early 1920s until the 1950s. Late Heddons withtennite reel seats like the #8 were not very elegant, but the earlierdeluxe with walnut or cedar seats are! My 9' 2 1/2 F is a heavy mother tocast, My #2F 9'Folsum is a delight. I think it is perhaps a mistake togeneralize too much. -Doug At 04:44 PM 2/8/01 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote: Arial0000,0000,ffffHarry, Arial0000,0000,ffffLikeall VINTAGE cane fly rods, the shorter the more expensive... and under 8'is the 7.5' Heddons which is one of the more expensive Heddons regardlessof models... Arial0000,0000,ffffLongerNEW rods today are more expensive which is the opposite... that is ofcourse because, a 3 piece takes more time and parts to build than a 2piece rod... Arial0000,0000,ffffYesthe 1362 is a broomstick made by South Bend...but if you find an EDWARDSor a HEDDON built Shakespeare... you will be plesantly surprised how nicethey are... Same with the other private label rods made by goodcompanies... Those are the best buys... I recently picked up a "MarshallFields Store for Men" rod... made by Granger! Don has one made byHeddon! And I told him to buy that one... I still kick myself as it wasadvertised as an 8' rod and it was a 7.5' rod for a BARGAIN price! Don,you still owe me! Or the Heddon Black Beauty 8' I told him to buy...When I saw that one... I was again bummed! It had a rare cork reel seat. Arial0000,0000,ffffThehigh grade South Bend rods are as good as the Heddons and Grangers butagain, you need to know WHICH ones are the good ones so to find out, youneed a Michael Sinclair Bamboo Fly rod Restoration Handbook which tellsyou which ones are the good ones... This book is a must have for anyonewho collects or restores vintage/classic rods. Here's the link to findthe book... Arial0000,0000,ffffwww.vfish.net/sinclair.htm Arial0000,0000,ffffMichaelis having some health issues and cannot work on rods for at least a yearaccording to an email I received from him yesterday. So, buy his books tohelp him out. The Divine book is out of print. He also wrote the Heddonbook as well which is available. I also have a few autographed copiesavailable as well. But these will probably be the last ones because ofthe above reason. It took him about a month to sign this last batch Ijust received. Arial0000,0000,ffffDarrellLee www.vfish.net Tahoma-----OriginalMessage----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu HarryBoyd Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:31 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Heddon? Don, Sounds to me like you, and a coupla other folks like Darrell, knowmore than a little bit about some pretty nice rods that are highlycollectible but still somewhat affordable. For instance, I've beenlooking for a Heddon under 8' for quite some time. As high priced asthey are, I may be looking quite a while longer. You guys care to give us a little education? What South Bends,Shakespeares, Monty's and H-I's should the rest of us be looking outfor? I just restored a Shakespeare A1362 Spring Brook. It's pretty muchof a club. But I didn't know that till I was finished. A littleinformation from some of you would be a big help. What did your sig line used to be, Don? Something about wishing yourcollected Garrisons and Paynes, but really collecting Monty's? Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote: arialHeddon and Grangerarecollected because so many of our fathers and arialgrandfathers fished them.Funny,nobody asks why Leonards are collected. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 8 20:32:20 2001 f192WKe06962 Subject: Re: Heddon? Bob,I know a guy here in So.bend that has a brand new never fished Cross/SBrod. He had two but I sold one for him when I had my store. He bought thme both new from a sporting goods store in So.Bend.Bret from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 8 20:39:21 2001 f192dKe07389 Subject: Mike Sinclair own's Devine? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C091B2.988A98C0 Wow!Mike if your out there, hire me to build e'm with you!I would love to be part of that project! Were do I send my Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C091B2.988A98C0 Wow!Mike if your out there, hire me to = you!I would love to be part of that = send my Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C091B2.988A98C0-- from harms1@pa.net Thu Feb 8 20:40:42 2001 f192eee07527 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:40:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Spline All, I think I'm missing something with this "spline" issue. I am able to detecta spline only in those rods of mine that have some small imperfection in theprocess of construction. But I have never been able to find the spline in asection that I got right. My assumption has always been that if you havechosen a good culm in the first place and built very carefully, there wil beno spline. I've been doing this for twenty-five years, and always believed that (except I've had more than a few. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Spline Stuart,I think you've asked some excellent questions. Unfortunately, I canthink of no intelligent response. Like you, I do my best to keep eachstripin position, then fret with spline later. I don't worry so much about thetip to butt relationship as I do trying to mirror each tip. I had one rodon which I found it impossible. Harry Boyd stuart moultrie wrote: Hmmm.... After spending all that time choosing a culm, splitting as straight aspossible, marking the strips to make sure they are right next to eachother in the finished rod, keeping strip number one of the butt sectionin line with strip number one of the tip section, and generally doingnothing that would compromise the parallel path of the power fibersfrombutt to tip, which should more or less give me a rod with the generalcharacteristics of the original culm (yes I have experimented with usingstrips from opposing positions in the culm)......... I am now supposedto roll my finished section on the workbench to find the "spline" and inthe process ignore the original butt to tip path the power fibers took!!! Does this mean that all the work I have put into keeping strips togetherand in line is pointless or that there is no "spline" that can be foundon a finished rod. Stuart --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from harms1@pa.net Thu Feb 8 20:42:52 2001 f192gpe07759 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:42:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Spline Oh, alright! Spine, spine, spine! You happy now?Cheez, wadda grouch, John. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Spline Guy. It's not a spline. It's a spine.JohnZ Harry Boyd wrote: Stuart,I think you've asked some excellent questions. Unfortunately, I canthink of no intelligent response. Like you, I do my best to keep eachstripin position, then fret with spline later. I don't worry so much aboutthetip to butt relationship as I do trying to mirror each tip. I had onerodon which I found it impossible. Harry Boyd stuart moultrie wrote: Hmmm.... After spending all that time choosing a culm, splitting as straight aspossible, marking the strips to make sure they are right next to eachother in the finished rod, keeping strip number one of the buttsectionin line with strip number one of the tip section, and generally doingnothing that would compromise the parallel path of the power fibersfrombutt to tip, which should more or less give me a rod with the generalcharacteristics of the original culm (yes I have experimented withusingstrips from opposing positions in the culm)......... I am now supposedto roll my finished section on the workbench to find the "spline" andinthe process ignore the original butt to tip path the power fibers took!!! Does this mean that all the work I have put into keeping stripstogetherand in line is pointless or that there is no "spline" that can befoundon a finished rod. Stuart --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from canazon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 8 20:51:18 2001 f192pFe08304 Subject: re: group cork This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09218.6EC74F40 i'd go for a group order myselfstill ridin the bus, mike canazon ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09218.6EC74F40 i'd go for a group order myself canazon ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09218.6EC74F40-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Feb 8 20:51:25 2001 f192pNe08309 Subject: Re: Spline I don't know, Bill. I've seen some sections that were as close to perfect as Ican imagine. They still had a definite stronger side and weaker side. Thegraphite boys use a little ball bearing gizmo to locate the strong and weaksides, or as Tom Kirkman calls it, "The effective spine" (or is it Spline,John?). I suspect we might find a strong side in more of our strips if wereally searched for them. One suggestion I read here several years ago suggested holding each flatagainsta table, and vibrating the tip end. The end that vibrates in closest to astraight line is the one you want in the casting plane. I've tried it. Itworks, sometimes. Harry Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I've been doing this for twenty-five years, and always believed that (except I've had more than a few. from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Thu Feb 8 20:54:22 2001 f192sKe08667 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:53:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Heddon? --=====================_21765003==_.ALT Good point. You can not get an old rod that even comes close to what I could get from AJ, Genesee Valley Rods, etc.... at under a grand. That's why I decided that I would only buy Jordan built SB Cross rods. I wish I had one of every model. It drastically cuts the field down and takes the temptation away. For the cost of a cheap $300 HI, SB, Monty, Heddon, or whatever, I could build myself about 6 quads that would bury it.Best regards,Bob Above $650 - why aren't you buying new from AJ et al. IMHO, Don Burns Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_21765003==_.ALT Good point. You can not get an old rod that even comesclose to what I could get from AJ, Genesee Valley Rods, etc.... at undera grand. That's why I decided that I would only buy Jordan built SB Crossrods. I wish I had one of every model. It drastically cuts the field downand takes the temptation away. For the cost of a cheap $300 HI, SB,Monty, Heddon, or whatever, I could build myself about 6 quads that wouldbury it. Best regards,Bob Above $650 -why aren't you buying new from AJ et al. IMHO, Don Burns Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_21765003==_.ALT-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 8 21:27:19 2001 f193RIe10049 Subject: Re: (no subject) I've bought 15 culm from him. It was all well worth the price. He didn't even bill me until he had shipped the cane. Don't think I would have been that trusting were the situation reversed. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 06:14 PM 2/8/01 -0500, you wrote:Has anyone on the list had experience purchasing bamboo through AndyRoyer,>The Bamboo Broker. I know Charles Demarest has a solid reputationamong thelist, but I can get three times the raw material from Andy for the sameprice. As a novice I think I might need the extra material for 'learningcurve' from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Thu Feb 8 21:32:43 2001 f193Wge10347 ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:20:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Heddon? --=====================_23387239==_.ALT I'm sorry guys, that sounded arrogant. I didn't mean to come off as such.Bob "For the cost of a cheap $300 HI, SB, Monty, Heddon, or whatever, I could build myself about 6 quads that would bury it.Best regards,Bob" Above $650 - why aren't you buying new from AJ et al. IMHO, Don Burns Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_23387239==_.ALT I'm sorry guys, that sounded arrogant. I didn't mean to come off as such. Bob "For the cost of a cheap $300 HI, SB, Monty,Heddon, or whatever, I could build myself about 6 quads that would buryit. Best regards,Bob" Above $650 -why aren't you buying new from AJ et al. IMHO, Don Burns Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_23387239==_.ALT-- from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 8 22:09:00 2001 f19490e11463 Subject: Re: Heddon? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_015C_01C091BF.1FC418A0 Bob you don't have to apologize for that! Your right.I mean the way I figure it most of us out there (I would expect) are =producing better quality than than your average mass produced trade rod. =If were not ,what are we doing then. LOL I'm not saying we shouldn't =give respect to those who came before , but its just natural that we =would improve.I mean just look how detail we get in these discussions. Ifthat determination goes into our rods, I would say the people who buy =our rods are getting the best we can possibly offer.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_015C_01C091BF.1FC418A0 Bob you don't have to apologize for = right.I mean the way I figure it most of us = would expect) are producing better quality than than your average mass = shouldn't give respect to those who came before , but its just natural = would improve.I mean just look how detail we get in = discussions. Ifthat determination goes into our rods,= offer.TonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_015C_01C091BF.1FC418A0-- from Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com Thu Feb 8 22:17:47 2001 f194Hle11843 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Collecting cane This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0924F.67A03C40 AMEN! -----Original Message----- Subject: Collecting cane There are fewer Divine collectors, but they still go for a good price... AskDean... he's one of the biggest collectors of Divine. Also, the rod's aremore of the antique variety which I feel are way undervalued... even the10'ers. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heddon? I don't understand how they put a value on most rods.Take my favorite the Devine's. They were built with as good of hardware as any Leonard(maybe better) I'm ducking my head! Ididn't say cast better.LOLAll nickel silver parts,Agate stripper ,swelled butt ,well documented andlimited compared to Heddons. It was twice the rod Heddon was,so why areHeddons valued higher?Tony Miller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0924F.67A03C40 AMEN! -----Original Message-----From: Darrell Lee 08, 2001 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Collecting caneThere are fewer Divine collectors, but they still go for a good the rod's are more of the antique variety which I feel are way undervalued... even the 10'ers. Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu MillerSent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:47 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Heddon? value on most rods.Take my favorite the Devine's. They were as good of hardware as anyLeonard(maybe better) I'm ducking my head! I didn't say cast better.LOLAll nickel silver parts,Agate stripper,swelled butt ,well documented and limited compared to Heddons. It was twice therod Heddon was,so why are Heddons valued higher?Tony Miller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0924F.67A03C40-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Feb 8 22:20:07 2001 f194K1e12064 Subject: Re: Heddon? DonGood point! Vintage rods are our biggest competition. Joewww.geneseevalleyrods.com from Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com Thu Feb 8 22:27:55 2001 hosts.mcafee.com [208.228.235.224] (may be forged)) f194Rne12457 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: CaneClinic Closed (was Mike Sinclair own's Devine?) This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09250.C76A15D2 Tony's note prompted me to share this. I got this note from Mr. Sinclairyesterday. Those of you that know him may want to send him an encouragingnote. Dear Friends, I'm sending this email out to all who have been friends of the Cane Clinic. It's important, so I hope you'll read on. that have finally come to a head in the last two weeks. I'm not giving up, but I must give in to the reality of my situation. As friends and clients, you have a right and a need to know how things stand with me. As a result of my health and occupational requirements, I will be unable to work on rods. At least for a year or so. It's not a matter of the time involved, it's the end result of my health troubles. I am having problems with my vision and with numbness in my hands. That pretty much rules out being able to do the type of work that is required for rod restoration. The Docs think I may be able to regain my manual dexterity, and there is hope that my vision will be restored. It's pretty blurry at times, though occasionally it clears up for a little while. To those whose rods have not yet been touched, I send my most sincere apologies. I will return your rods at my expense. I hope that you will be able to find another competent restorer to fill your needs. I've heard some good things about the work done by my buddy Dave Cottengim (Lublgrud@aol.com). If you'd like other recommendations, I'm sure that Bob Corsetti or Len Codella can steer you in the right direction. To those whose rods are "in progress", I will contact you individually. I can offer only two possibilities; one is that I return your rod "as is" with no charge for the work done so far, or that I keep the rod(s) and try towork on them as I can. I'll contact you individually let you decide. To all of my clients I offer my most sincere apologies for any inconvenience I may have caused, and I hope we can do business again someday in the future. Needless to say, this also puts the Divine Rod Company on hold. If you've read the Divine book, you know that this company was snake-bit throughoutits history and it appears that tradition is continuing. Thanks for your patience, and your understanding. Michael Sinclair The Cane Clinic / The Divine Rod Co. http://www.caneclinic.com 3121 Benton Road Paducah, KY 42003 -----Original Message----- Subject: Mike Sinclair own's Devine? Wow!Mike if your out there, hire me to build e'm with you!I would love to be part of that project! Were do I send myresume? Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html flyfish@defnet.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09250.C76A15D2 Tony's yesterday. Those of you that know him may want to send him an encouraging note. Dear Friends,I'm sending this email out to all who have been friends of the Cane Clinic. It's important, so I hope you'll read on. that have finally come to a head in the last two weeks. I'm not giving up, but I must give in to the reality of my situation. As friends and clients, you have a right and a need to know how things stand with me. As a result of my health and occupational requirements, I will be unable to work on rods. At least for a year or so. It's not a matter of the time involved, it's the end result of my health troubles. I am having problems with my vision and with numbness in my hands. That pretty much rulesout being able to do the type of work that is required for rod restoration.The Docs think I may be able to regain my manual dexterity, and there is hope that my vision will be restored. It's pretty blurry at times, though occasionally it clears up for a little while.To those whose rods have not yet been touched, I send my most sincere apologies. I will return your rods at my expense. I hope that you will be able to find another competent restorer to fill your needs. I've heardsome good things about the work done by my buddy Dave Cottengim (Lublgrud@aol.com). If you'd like other recommendations, I'm sure thatBob Corsetti or Len Codella can steer you in the right direction. To those whose rods are "in progress", I will contact you individually. I can offer only two possibilities; one is that I return your rod "as is" with no charge for the work done so far, or that I keep the rod(s) and try towork on them as I can. I'll contact you individually let you decide.To all of my clients I offer my most sincere apologies for any inconvenience I may have caused, and I hope we can do business againsome day in the future.Needless to say, this also puts the Divine Rod Company on hold. If you've read the Divine book, you know that this company was snake-bitthroughout its history and it appears that tradition is continuing.Thanks for your patience, and your understanding.Michael Sinclair The Cane Clinic / The Divine Rod Co.http://www.caneclinic.com3121 Benton RoadPaducah, KY 42003 -----Original Message-----From: Tony Miller 2001 6:36 Mike Sinclair own's Devine?Wow!Mike if your out there, hire me to build e'mwith you!I would love to be part of that project! Weredo I send my Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html flyfish@defnet.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09250.C76A15D2-- from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Feb 8 22:28:30 2001 f194SUe12543 Subject: Re: Collecting cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0173_01C091C1.D91F59C0 DeanDo you have a fairy by Devine?I would love to know what the taper is on that rod?That is the only one I have not actually seen only a drawing in Mike's =book.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0173_01C091C1.D91F59C0 Dean Devine?I would love to know what the taper is = rod?That is the only one I have not = a drawing in Mike's book.TonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_0173_01C091C1.D91F59C0-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Feb 8 22:30:31 2001 f194UUe12825 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:30:18 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: lathes Mike,keep in mind also that you must have a 3 jaw chuck (4 if you buildquads) amback to using the Franken lathe until I get a chuck for the Jet. The chucksare worthalmost as much as the lathe. Makes getting a metal lathe look way moreappealinginstead of a wood when you consider OVERALL price and what you can do withit. Mostsmall metal lathes come with the chuck.I may set the Jet aside for woodworking and get a small metal lathemyself! Shawn Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: John, Mike, I got the Spring Harbor Freight catalogue yesterday and thatsame wood lathe is now $129.00. Mike, I don't think that this is what youwant. You could turn ferrule stations and cork grips if the spindle ishollow, but not much more. Shawn Pineos Franken Lathe would allow you todothat for less money.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:37 PMSubject: Re: lathes Mike;You can't even buy a decent drill for $64.00, what kind of lathe do youthink you are going to get for that amount? the first thing you need tocheck is if it has a hole thru the spindle, this sounds like an importwood lathe to me and most of them have a solid spindle.John mike canazon wrote: rexthe company was Central Machinery , out of the harbor frieghtcatalogue. mike canazon still on the bus from Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com Thu Feb 8 22:34:50 2001 hosts.mcafee.com [208.228.235.224] (may be forged)) f194Yie13073 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Collecting cane This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09251.C7C06A3A Yes I do. I'll measure them and post them to the list. There are a coupleother list members waiting for the tapers. from what I can tell there aretwo distinct tapers for the Fairy. The 1917- 1920 (H series serial numbers)rods were softer and fuller flexing, while the Later rods (R series) weredefinitely faster and more of a tip action. I'll post them both in the nextweek or so. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Collecting cane DeanDo you have a fairy by Devine?I would love to know what the taper is on that rod?That is the only one I have not actually seen only a drawing in Mike's book.Tony Miller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09251.C7C06A3A Yes I couple are both in the next week or so. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Miller 2001 8:26 Re: Collecting caneDean Devine?I would love to know what the taper is onthat rod?That is the only one I have not actually seen only a drawing in Mike's book.TonyMiller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09251.C7C06A3A-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Feb 8 22:38:12 2001 f194cBe13323 Subject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com Thu Feb 8 22:50:10 2001 hosts.mcafee.com [208.228.235.224] (may be forged)) f194o4e13925 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: My little gripe If this was me, I'm sorry. I've been guilty of it before. Every time Ichange computers I forget to straighten it out. -----Original Message----- Subject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from saweiss@flash.net Thu Feb 8 23:07:22 2001 f1957Le14547 f1957HV120048 Subject: Re: Banty Rods I don't know if all would agree that the Paul Young Midge is a banty, but Isure have liked the ones I've made. They are very sensitive, cast well atshort range, and have the guts for longer casts when needed.distanceSteve from Troutgetter@aol.com Thu Feb 8 23:34:43 2001 f195Yge15290 Subject: Re: (no subject) I've bought from Andy and I'll buy again.Mike from goodaple@tcac.net Thu Feb 8 23:43:21 2001 f195hLe15606 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Re: My little gripe Organization: How do you turn it off? I am not sure if mine is the problem or not. I won'tbe offended if someone were to tell me that I am. I just need to know sothat I can fix it. Sorry, I'm not really into puters, just rods and stuff.Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Feb 9 00:34:08 2001 f196Y8e16717 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: New vs Old Harry, That wasn't your question... You now raise the discussion betweenvintage/classic/antique rods and new rods... The vintage/classic rods (the group of 40+ year old rods) are collected andsometimes fished. The new rods are fished and sometimes collected... Vintage rods are fun to restore, fish and collect and they usually only goUP in value like money in the bank or in a bond fund. Art, antiques,collectibles all fall into this category. Many people including myselfbuy/own/collect vintage rods for all the above reasons plus they are goodinvestments as well. Like all investments, occasionally your timing might beoff and you overpay or the market might shift and that investment may fallout of popularity for a while depressing prices but in the long term thevintage rods are a good investment that are fun too! New rods are like new cars... the day you use it, it drops 20-30% in value,but in 20-40 years, it will be added to the collectible category and thenrise in value if the quality is good and the design is sound. I must say, that having the pleasure of selling both vintage rods and someof the new rods for members of the list has been a real joy... The qualityof workmanship the modern cane rod maker is superb and certainly beats allthe production rods and even most of the classic old, dead guys... Theasthetics, the appearance, the fittings, reel seats, finish... bravo! What I'd like to see someday is the modern rod makers on the list gettingtogether and designing new taper designs and somehow get the tapersevaluated. It's certainly easier for me to sell a rod from a taper ofGarrison, Dickerson, Payne, etc. that to sell a rod from Joe Smith, maker,with a Joe Smith Taper... It could be the best fly rod on the planet, but itwould be hard to sell until enough people have had a chance to build it,test it, evaluate it, etc. (Sorry if there is a Joe Smith on the list)... Perhaps a committee or at the gatherings, special time should be given torods that are of a makers own taper and some expertcasters/guides/fisherscould evaluate the taper and like the Sir D or some of AJ's or Waynestapers... others would be acknowledged for their taper and contribution tothe craft. A site with rod reviews could be setup so anyone can have accessto the reviews instead of just being a member of the list only having accessto the comments. Whoa... don't get me started... I'm off my soapbox now... End of Manifesto... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fw: Heddon? Sounds like I've received lots of good advice. Best adviceI got was, "Save your money -- you build a better rod thanany of these." I do hope that's true. But I appreciate allthe input as well. Harry Ed Riddle wrote: Bob gives good advice. For those of you interested in theold production rods, I recommend Michael Sinclair's"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" ($25.00). Therein is anextensive listing of Monty's, Divine's, H-I's, Heddon's,S.B's, Granger's, Phillipson's, Shakespeare's, etc.,provided primarily for identification/restoration puposes;however, in addition, those rod's i.d.'d with nicklesilver ferrules (versus chrome plated brass) jump up aspreferred (sorry Darrell)... Tapers aren't listed, ascasting/fishability takes a back seat to collection andrestoration in this volume... no financial connection,blah, blah, but it's a great fireside reader betweenGierach books.Hope I haven't bombed your bandwidth. from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Feb 9 02:45:50 2001 f198jne18274 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:45:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Banty Rods I have been under the impression that "banty rod" is a term applied to asmall rod that was made from a larger rod. For example, using the tip andmid-section of a 9' rod to make a 6' rod. Am I fishing or lawn casting onthis one? Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Steven A. Weiss Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:07 PMSubject: Re: Banty Rods I don't know if all would agree that the Paul Young Midge is a banty, butIsure have liked the ones I've made. They are very sensitive, cast well atshort range, and have the guts for longer casts when needed.distanceSteve from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Feb 9 05:11:47 2001 f19BBke19285 f19BBZW22278; Subject: Re: Spine Organization: vet John I think the other factor, seldom considered, is that if you (like me) are ahobby rodmaker, working alone in the shed that houses also your wife's carand your home brewing enterprise, building rods from strips split from oneculm, and kept in consistent serial order, makes good sense because, apart from anything else, it makes it easier to stagger the nodes, and ifnecessary, to replace strips with similar ones. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Spine Barry;It's another one of the fetishes started by Everett Garrison, few if anyof the production companies(including Payne, Leonard and Dickerson, allof whom used strips from 2 culms in a rod) did this. think about it, ifyou are working alone in your basement, making rods one at a time,doesn't it keep the clutter down to just deal with one culm at a time?John "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Art -- This isn't exactly the issue you raised, but your comment remindsme....Inever have understood the fetish about making a rod all from the sameculm.This could not have anything to do with consistency of the bamboo.Oppositesides of the same culm are different in many cases, while matching ispossible when you mix strips from different culms, if matching mattersthatmuch. It can't be a matter of quality in any practical sense, since theability to choose the best strips from multiple culms is at least asgood away to guarantee quality of the material itself. I can only think thatthisis one of those arbitrary and challenging approaches that gives peoplepleasure, rather than a matter of craftsmanship or quality in any othersense. Not that I'm against it for that reason. After all, fishing with bamboooreven plastic poles is an arbitrary and challenging way to get a trout.(Plastic explosives work much better if you don't use too much.) So ifit'smore fun to make a rod this way, go for it and enjoy it. But when thiskindof thing gets cloaked in the aura of virtuous craftsmanship (not thatyousaid this, Art, but it's not uncommon), as if anyone doing otherwise isasomewhat lower form of life, I instinctively look upwind to locate thestockyards I'm smelling. Sorry, I think I got a bit carried away. But no, not everyone does this. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Spine Stuart,I split my tip STRIPS (not splines) from the same double-pieces(2no.1's, 2 no. 2's etc.) and then the tips are exactly the same. I thoughtalldid that....Art At 08:33 AM 02/08/2001 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote:Hi Bob, Do you match your tips? If so, how does one do this and follow eachsectionsindividual spine? How can I stagger nodes in a spiral from butt totipand stillfollow the spine? Should we view each section as totally independent ofeachother? When yes then there can be no real point in keeping splitstripsin theorder that they come from the culm in. Is there anything to say thatthe sections then should not come from different culms? Thanks Stuart Bob Nunley wrote: I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking and I'veonlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on.Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexesquicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from HomeyDKlown@att.net Fri Feb 9 05:19:18 2001 f19BJCe19478 ;Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:19:08 +0000 Subject: Re: My little gripe If you have Netscrape, go to edit-preferences. Choose the "Mail &Groups" option and then the "messages" option. There's a check box thatsays "By Default, Send HTML Messages". That box should NOT be checked. That should do it. Randall Gregory wrote: How do you turn it off? I am not sure if mine is the problem or not. I won'tbe offended if someone were to tell me that I am. I just need to know sothat I can fix it. Sorry, I'm not really into puters, just rods and stuff.Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:35 PMSubject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Feb 9 05:20:38 2001 f19BKae19620 f19BKWW22869; Subject: Re: My little gripe Organization: vet Harry I don't even know what that means. Am I doing it? Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: My little gripe How do you turn it off? I am not sure if mine is the problem or not. Iwon'tbe offended if someone were to tell me that I am. I just need to know sothat I can fix it. Sorry, I'm not really into puters, just rods and stuff.Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:35 PMSubject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from homeydklown@att.net Fri Feb 9 07:22:12 2001 f19DMBe21172 Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:22:08 +0000 Subject: Two Banty rod tapers Here are a couple of tapers I received from a friend who shall remain nameless (Art Port) ;-) last night. The first is a Payne 4' 4" 2 piece rod. I'm not sure of the line weight of either rod, though I'd guess at a four DT... 0 0.0385 0.04610 0.05915 0.06220 0.06925 0.077 26 0.07930 0.08435 0.08940 0.09445 0.10150 0.10152 0.101 The second is a Hardy 4'4" 2 piece A&F banty. 0 0.0705 0.08810 0.10715 0.11920 0.13325 0.146 20 0.13325 0.14630 0.17535 0.18240 0.19045 0.20550 0.20552 0.205 Estimate, under cork. According to the sheet these tapers came on, the Hardy taper was submitted to the list by Ray Gould. As for the Payne, I'll insert a comment on the spreadsheet that gives a little explanation... I hope this helps satisfy some curiosities on the list. I'd be interested to hear about the results of these numbers if they actually become flyrods. Enjoy, Dennis from beadman@mac.com Fri Feb 9 07:34:23 2001 f19DYMe21451 Subject: Re: My little gripe At 7:27 AM -0800 on 2/9/01, Dennis Haftel wrote about Re: My little gripe If you have Netscrape, go to edit-preferences. Choose the "Mail &Groups" option and then the "messages" option. There's a check box thatsays "By Default, Send HTML Messages". That box should NOT be checked. Thanks, Dennis. Here's another: If you are using Eudora on a PC, go to menu TOOLS, select OPTIONS. Scroll down the icons on the left side until you find STYLED TEXT and left-click on it once. On the right side of the window you'll see the statement "When sending mail with styled text (HTML)" and three little buttons below it. Click on the one that says "Send Plain Text Only", so that a little black dot appears inside the box. If you are using Eudora on a Mac, go to menu SPECIAL, select SETTINGS, scroll down the icons on the left side until you find STYLED TEXT and click on it once. On the right side of the window you'll see the statement "When sending mail with applied fonts & styles", and three little buttons below it. Click on the one that says "Send Plain Text Only", so that a little black dot appears inside the box. Claude from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 9 07:57:37 2001 f19Dvbe21886 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 05:57:02 -0800 Subject: Re: My little gripe Dean,I honestly don't remember who does and who doesn't use html. Didn'tmean to imply that anyone in particular was the culprit.Harry "Burrill, Dean" wrote: If this was me, I'm sorry. I've been guilty of it before. Every time Ichange computers I forget to straighten it out. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:36 PM Subject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 9 08:05:00 2001 f19E4xe22179 Subject: Re: Banty Rods Well, Dick,Banty rods is one of those terms like spline/spine. ;-) It is used withmultiple intentions. For instance, a Payne Banty rod was a 4'4" rod used bysome with great delight. A banty rod made from the mid and tip of a cheapGIimport is probably going to be a dog.Maybe we should differentiate by using Banty and banty.... Harry "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: I have been under the impression that "banty rod" is a term applied to asmall rod that was made from a larger rod. For example, using the tip andmid-section of a 9' rod to make a 6' rod. Am I fishing or lawn casting onthis one? Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Steven A. Weiss Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:07 PMSubject: Re: Banty Rods I don't know if all would agree that the Paul Young Midge is a banty, butIsure have liked the ones I've made. They are very sensitive, cast well atshort range, and have the guts for longer casts when needed.distanceSteve --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Feb 9 08:08:05 2001 f19E84e22399 Subject: Re: Heddon? Harry,I love my 9' Montague Manitou 3wt. The Manitous (with the Landmanreelseat) are the top grade and the only Montagues worth buying,IMHO.... however, Bob Corsetti has a 9' Varney in his latest catalogue.That is something to drool over for appearance, tho' I don't know how itcasts. Of course, it is a one off. The problem with most Montagues(Redwing and below) is that they overbuilt them to ensure sturdiness;since they would be powersanding the blank after glue-up they had toleave extra substance. I'm sure another reason was the understandingthat this was "Everyman's" rod and would be subject to abuse.Another fine rod line is the Edwards' "Bristol". Go for the F7 andabove. The difference between the rods was mostly in the hardware, thetapers are all the same; but, of course, blanks were selected to matchhardware. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Harry Boyd wrote: Don,Sounds to me like you, and a coupla other folks like Darrell, knowmore than a little bit about some pretty nice rods that are highlycollectible but still somewhat affordable. For instance, I've beenlooking for a Heddon under 8' for quite some time. As high priced asthey are, I may be looking quite a while longer.You guys care to give us a little education? What South Bends,Shakespeares, Monty's and H-I's should the rest of us be looking outfor? I just restored a Shakespeare A1362 Spring Brook. It's prettymuch of a club. But I didn't know that till I was finished. A littleinformation from some of you would be a big help.What did your sig line used to be, Don? Something about wishingyour collected Garrisons and Paynes, but really collecting Monty's? Harry from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Feb 9 08:15:39 2001 f19EFce22769 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Spline Bill,I agree, but only because I believe the experience of an old rodmaker. SamCarlson would scrap any section that had a "jump" as he called it.The graphite and fiberglass makers must inevitably have a Sp(l)ine in theirproduct because of overlap of material. It shouldn't be necessary in cane,though I'm not sure it is seriously deterimental.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I think I'm missing something with this "spline" issue. I am able to detecta spline only in those rods of mine that have some small imperfection intheprocess of construction. But I have never been able to find the spline in asection that I got right. My assumption has always been that if you havechosen a good culm in the first place and built very carefully, there wil beno spline. I've been doing this for twenty-five years, and always believed that (except I've had more than a few. cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ from penr0295@bendnet.com Fri Feb 9 09:32:32 2001 f19FWVe25631 f19FWSf92495 Subject: Rod Restoration Info Request A person with an FE Thomas has contacted me saying that the mid- sectionofthe rod is separating and needs repair. He asked if I knew any restorers,but I don't really have any contact information for anyone. I wouldappreciate any names of persons with experience with this kind of work. Idon't know how extensive the separation is.Thanks,Thomas Penrose from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Feb 9 10:12:57 2001 f19GCue27169 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:12:23 -0800 Subject: Spine testing of strips f19GCve27170 must be really discouraging and inefficient to toss a section after all thework that went into getting to that point. Particularly a hand planer. In arrow making, the shafts are placed on a spine tester and matched interms of spine weight, which has an affect on how the arrow leaves the shelfand recovers from the archers paradox. Although of the same wood a set ofarrow shafts will have different spine weights due to grain and I assumelocation in the tree the wood came from. I was thinking that it might be better to test the deflection of the bamboostrips before they are glued up. This way you could verify that the stripshave similar power, and match six strips that are within a pre- determinedtolerance. I assume this would eliminate the serious jumps. The nodes would play a role because of their increased stiffness, but if using3x3 or 2x2x2 then the strips of the same node spacing could be tested forsimilarity. Might be another option for those that seek no spine in the finished section. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Feb 9 12:21:09 2001 f19IL7e10904 Subject: Spine or Spline: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0929C.3A93EBA0 Just thought I would add my two cents after watching the thread on thissubject. It had me doubting that the term spline was correct so I went tothe dictionary for the definitions. Spine is the spinal or vertebral column;backbone. Any backbonelike part. Spline is a long, narrow, thin strip ofwood, metal, etc.; slat. One is used for the biological and the other todescribed made sections. I will continue to use the term Spline that wastaught to me by my mentor and referred to in many books on rodmaking. Inmyexperience spline does count and does make a difference in performance, Iwould refer you to M. Sinclair book Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook wherehesays "Check the spline of rod yourself; the factories often paid noattention at all to the spline and you can improve the performance of therod if you take the time to spline it properly." The comment that splinedoesn't count is in my opinion one more step in producing a so-so rod. Thisis just my opinion. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0929C.3A93EBA0 Normal0DocumentEmail =0=0 Just =thought Iwould add my two cents after watching the thread on this subject. It had =me doubtingthat the term spline was correct so I went to the dictionary for thedefinitions. Spine is the spinal or vertebral column; backbone. Anybackbonelike part. Spline is a long, narrow, thin strip of wood, metal, =etc.;slat. One is used for the biological and the other to described made =sections.I will continue to use the term Spline that was taught to me by my =mentor and referredto in many books on rodmaking. In my experience spline does count and =does makea difference in performance, I would refer you to M. Sinclair book =Bamboo RodRestoration Handbook where he says "Check the spline of rod =yourself; thefactories often paid no attention at all to the spline and you can =improve theperformance of the rod if you take the time to spline it properly." = doesn't =count isin my opinion one more step in producing a so-so rod. This is just my = Signature" Upstream =Always, Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0929C.3A93EBA0-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Feb 9 13:12:57 2001 f19JCue12569 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:13:05 -0800 Subject: The Spine in the Splines This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09280.EB61D3A0 Okay, Now that I know how to do it, why I am I doing it? The input on thissubject has been very informative and much appreciated but, I am still aninexperienced "Bamboo Beaver" and need a little back ground information onsome of these finer points of discussion. Bamboo Beaver, I think I'll usethis one. I am assuming that the spine would have little to do with the strengthof a rod i.e., playing a fish. But, would be most significant in castingcharacteristics. Anyone care to comment? Regards,DickThe Bamboo Beaver Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09280.EB61D3A0 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010209T181316ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C09280.EB61D3A0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Feb 9 13:50:41 2001 f19Joee14755 2001 11:50:42 PST Subject: Re: The Spine in the Splines richard, i think that is the main point. if you placethe guides in relation to the spine your rod has hasless tendency to wobble or twist. that's all. ...andwhether you call it spline, spine, pine, orin-the-groove most everyone knows what we arereferring to. timothy --- "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote:Okay, Now that I know how to do it, why I am I doingit? The input on thissubject has been very informative and muchappreciated but, I am still aninexperienced "Bamboo Beaver" and need a little background information onsome of these finer points of discussion. BambooBeaver, I think I'll usethis one. I am assuming that the spine would have littleto do with the strengthof a rod i.e., playing a fish. But, would be mostsignificant in castingcharacteristics. Anyone care to comment? Regards,DickThe Bamboo Beaver Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=0D=0ABrinnon, Washington 98320- 0349=0D=0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010209T181316ZEND:VCARD ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Feb 9 13:53:04 2001 f19Jr3e15002 2001 11:53:05 PST Subject: Re: Spine or Spline: tim, that's more like a nickle's worth. :-) timothy --- Tim Doughty wrote:Just thought I would add my two cents after watchingthe thread on thissubject. It had me doubting that the term spline wascorrect so I went tothe dictionary for the definitions. Spine is thespinal or vertebral column;backbone. Any backbonelike part. Spline is a long,narrow, thin strip ofwood, metal, etc.; slat. One is used for thebiological and the other todescribed made sections. I will continue to use theterm Spline that wastaught to me by my mentor and referred to in manybooks on rodmaking. In myexperience spline does count and does make adifference in performance, Iwould refer you to M. Sinclair book Bamboo RodRestoration Handbook where hesays "Check the spline of rod yourself; thefactories often paid noattention at all to the spline and you can improvethe performance of therod if you take the time to spline it properly." The comment that splinedoesn't count is in my opinion one more step inproducing a so-so rod. Thisis just my opinion. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from iank@ts.co.nz Fri Feb 9 14:55:41 2001 f19KtZe18283 Subject: Re: The Spine in the Splines The correct location of the spline makes a difference in playing a fishalso. I made a cane spinning rod a few years ago , and did not locate thespline. When using this rod to play a large fish it has this unfortunatefeature of suddenly twisting sideways as the spline takes over when the rodis under pressure. I am now very careful about the alignment of the spline and the spine. Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: The Spine in the Splines Okay, Now that I know how to do it, why I am I doing it? The input on thissubject has been very informative and much appreciated but, I am still aninexperienced "Bamboo Beaver" and need a little back ground informationonsome of these finer points of discussion. Bamboo Beaver, I think I'll usethis one. I am assuming that the spine would have little to do with the strengthof a rod i.e., playing a fish. But, would be most significant in castingcharacteristics. Anyone care to comment? Regards,DickThe Bamboo Beaver Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Feb 9 15:27:52 2001 f19LRoe20012 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:29:57 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: The Spine in the Splines So where does everyone place their guides, on the sp(l)ine, or the opposite flat? I've seen references on this list an elsewhere for both methods. Bill At 09:53 AM 2/10/01 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:The correct location of the spline makes a difference in playing a fishalso. I made a cane spinning rod a few years ago , and did not locate thespline. When using this rod to play a large fish it has this unfortunatefeature of suddenly twisting sideways as the spline takes over when the rodis under pressure. I am now very careful about the alignment of the spline and the spine. Ian----- Original Message -----From: "Richard R. Dutcher" Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 7:13 AMSubject: The Spine in the Splines Okay, Now that I know how to do it, why I am I doing it? The input on thissubject has been very informative and much appreciated but, I am still aninexperienced "Bamboo Beaver" and need a little back ground informationonsome of these finer points of discussion. Bamboo Beaver, I think I'll usethis one. I am assuming that the spine would have little to do with the strengthof a rod i.e., playing a fish. But, would be most significant in castingcharacteristics. Anyone care to comment? Regards,DickThe Bamboo Beaver Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Feb 9 15:34:47 2001 f19LYje20551 3FA7BC00A Subject: Rod Spine I was taught many years ago to place the "spine" so that the stiff sideresisted the forces exerted by the fly line drag; that is, drag on the rodcaused by the weight and friction of the line as it swung through thecurrent, and drag from the line when you pick up to make a backcast. If the rod is made very accurately and straight it will be very hard tofind a spine. For this reason, I believe, bamboo rods track very straight,and are very accurate. To test this, hold the rod grip firmly on the edgeof a table or other flat surface so that the rod sticks straight out. Thenlift the rod section an inch or two and release so that the rod tipvibrates vertically back and forth. If the rod is accurate the rod tipwill oscillate in a straight path. If the rod is "off" the tip will beginto oscillate in an oval path. This tendency to "kick" to one side ispresent when you are casting. Given the amazing adaptibility of the human arm/physique this notion isprobably irrelevent. from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Feb 9 15:46:47 2001 f19Lkke21292 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Rod Spine This is how I find the spline on my rods........danny From: "Ted Knott" Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:31:50 -0500 Subject: Rod Spine I was taught many years ago to place the "spine" so that the stiff sideresisted the forces exerted by the fly line drag; that is, drag on the rodcaused by the weight and friction of the line as it swung through thecurrent, and drag from the line when you pick up to make a backcast. If the rod is made very accurately and straight it will be very hard tofind a spine. For this reason, I believe, bamboo rods track very straight,and are very accurate. To test this, hold the rod grip firmly on the edgeof a table or other flat surface so that the rod sticks straight out. Thenlift the rod section an inch or two and release so that the rod tipvibrates vertically back and forth. If the rod is accurate the rod tipwill oscillate in a straight path. If the rod is "off" the tip will beginto oscillate in an oval path. This tendency to "kick" to one side ispresent when you are casting. Given the amazing adaptibility of the human arm/physique this notion isprobably irrelevent. from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Feb 9 16:03:43 2001 f19M3ge21983 Subject: Re: The Spine in the Splines You will find if the Spine is off, say 90*, while a load like playing a fish,the rod will want to twist in you hand to the soft side of the rod. Incasting, the line will want to cast off center. Harry mentioned something theother day about checking the spine on a table. If you lay a blank flat on atable with about 2/3 of the tip section off the end and bend the tip andrelease it.If the tip is not on the spine it will oscillate in an oval. The closer to thespine the narrower the oval. When on the spine it should just vibrate up anddown in a straight plane.Doing this will give you an idea of what your line will be doing when youcast a rod that does not have the guides on one or the other side of thespine. (soft or stiff)I do know books call it a spline and it may be, but to me it is the spine I amlooking for. I have made three G------- rods with the guides on the outsidebend, did not like them at all. Made over 100 with the guides on the inside ofthe bend. I find that the guides on the inside seem to cast best for me. Thetradition I have heard is: for power put the guides on the stiff side, foraccuracy put the guides on the soft side. I go with the soft side except forCasting and Saltwater rods. Yes, there can be more than one spine but onewillalways be pronounced . That is the one I use.I have had two bamboo blanks that it was almost impossible to find a spine.Can't tell you why, don't know. I make them all the same way. Now to crawlback into my hole.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: Okay, Now that I know how to do it, why I am I doing it? The input on thissubject has been very informative and much appreciated but, I am still aninexperienced "Bamboo Beaver" and need a little back ground informationonsome of these finer points of discussion. Bamboo Beaver, I think I'll usethis one. I am assuming that the spine would have little to do with the strengthof a rod i.e., playing a fish. But, would be most significant in castingcharacteristics. Anyone care to comment? Regards,DickThe Bamboo Beaver Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Feb 9 18:47:25 2001 f1A0lOe27262 (63.228.47.78) " Randall Gregory" Subject: Re: My little gripe Harry,Me too!Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: My little gripe Harry I don't even know what that means. Am I doing it? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Randall Gregory" Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 4:46 PMSubject: Re: My little gripe How do you turn it off? I am not sure if mine is the problem or not. Iwon'tbe offended if someone were to tell me that I am. I just need to know sothat I can fix it. Sorry, I'm not really into puters, just rods andstuff.Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:35 PMSubject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 19:35:27 2001 f1A1ZQe28409 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:35:15 -0800 Subject: rod binder =_NextPart_000_001E_01C092CF.7760EBE0" FILETIME=[B7CC3E00:01C09301] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C092CF.7760EBE0 new to rod construction. I need to know what is the best tyoe of binder =to use for rod construction. Mark ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C092CF.7760EBE0 new to rod construction. I need to know= best tyoe of binder to use for rod construction. =Mark ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C092CF.7760EBE0-- from harms1@pa.net Fri Feb 9 19:44:31 2001 f1A1iUe28769 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:44:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Banty Rods Then again, it's possible the proper word all along ought to have been"bantum." There's always that, you know? cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Banty Rods Well, Dick,Banty rods is one of those terms like spline/spine. ;-) It is usedwithmultiple intentions. For instance, a Payne Banty rod was a 4'4" rod usedbysome with great delight. A banty rod made from the mid and tip of a cheapGIimport is probably going to be a dog.Maybe we should differentiate by using Banty and banty.... Harry "Richard R. Dutcher" wrote: I have been under the impression that "banty rod" is a term appliedto asmall rod that was made from a larger rod. For example, using the tipandmid-section of a 9' rod to make a 6' rod. Am I fishing or lawn castingonthis one? Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Steven A. Weiss Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:07 PMSubject: Re: Banty Rods I don't know if all would agree that the Paul Young Midge is a banty,butIsure have liked the ones I've made. They are very sensitive, cast wellatshort range, and have the guts for longer casts when needed.distanceSteve --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Feb 9 19:58:29 2001 f1A1wSe29211 Subject: Spine spline After I posted my message I got several off listmessages as to why I place my guides on the insideof the curve. Rather than answer them separatelyI will post my reply.I may be all wet but this is my way of thinking.Think of your rod as a bow. With the guides on thesoft ( inside) side when raising the rod to pickup line off the water the line puts load on therod. It will bend and load the rod on the softside, (inside bend) more than it would on thestiff side. As the rod comes up and the line loadsthe rod on the back cast it has resistance fromthe stiff side. It will want come back to neutral.Being that the rod is loaded on the stiff sidenow, it will want to straighten out fast and willthrow the line out with higher speed. Being thatit has to work against itself in the oppositedirection it will not bend as far forward as itdoes back thus keeps from throwing the line down.It will tend to stop quicker and throw the linestraight out instead of down. In fighting thefish, The rod can be raised higher and the fish isfighting the soft side, this is easier on thetippet and more pressure can be put on the tippetwithout it breaking due to working on the softside.What happens when you have no spine, darned if Iknow.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from harms1@pa.net Fri Feb 9 20:04:19 2001 f1A24Ie29472 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:04:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Spine or Spline: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C092DB.AC7F7060 "Taking the time to 'spline' it properly" sounds as if we have just =converted a noun into a new verb for the English lexicon. Considering =the arbitrariness of that move, I shouldn't think Sinclair was much of =an expert on the distinction of spline/spine. But more to the point, I would agree that if you have much of a =detectable spline/spine, you have built a so-so rod. I do not believe =that a truly well- built cane rod will have enough of a "spline" to have =any practical effect on its accuracy. As to the "accuracy factor" =itself, there are way, way too many variables in one's casting style =anyway to know how much inaccuracy is attributable only to the rod =(assuming the well-built rod). Let the email fly, guys! cheers, Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:28 PMSubject: Spine or Spline: Just thought I would add my two cents after watching the thread on =this subject. It had me doubting that the term spline was correct so I =went to the dictionary for the definitions. Spine is the spinal or =vertebral column; backbone. Any backbonelike part. Spline is a long, =narrow, thin strip of wood, metal, etc.; slat. One is used for the =biological and the other to described made sections. I will continue to =use the term Spline that was taught to me by my mentor and referred to =in many books on rodmaking. In my experience spline does count and does =make a difference in performance, I would refer you to M. Sinclair book =Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook where he says "Check the spline of rod =yourself; the factories often paid no attention at all to the spline and =you can improve the performance of the rod if you take the time to =spline it properly." The comment that spline doesn't count is in my =opinion one more step in producing a so-so rod. This is just my opinion. ======== Upstream Always, Tim Doughty Rodmaker ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C092DB.AC7F7060 Normal0DocumentEmail =0=0 @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in =1.25in; mso- header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoEnvelopeAddress {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 2in; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =Arial; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-width: 5.5in; =mso- element-frame-height: 99.0pt; mso-element-frame-hspace: 9.0pt; =mso- element-wrap: auto; mso-element-anchor-horizontal: page; =mso-element- left: center; mso-element-top: bottom; mso-height-rule: =exactly; mso-bidi- font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New =Roman"}LI.MsoEnvelopeAddress {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 2in; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =Arial; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-element: frame; mso- element-frame-width: 5.5in; =mso-element-frame-height: 99.0pt; mso- element-frame-hspace: 9.0pt; =mso-element-wrap: auto; mso-element- anchor-horizontal: page; =mso-element-left: center; mso-element-top: bottom; mso-height-rule: =exactly; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font- family: "Times New =Roman"}DIV.MsoEnvelopeAddress {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 2in; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =Arial; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-element: frame; mso-element-frame-width: 5.5in; =mso-element-frame-height: 99.0pt; mso-element-frame-hspace: 9.0pt; =mso-element-wrap: auto; mso- element-anchor-horizontal: page; =mso-element-left: center; mso-element- top: bottom; mso-height-rule: =exactly; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi- font-family: "Times New =Roman"}P.MsoEnvelopeReturn {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;=mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-bidi-font- family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoEnvelopeReturn {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;=mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoEnvelopeReturn {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;=mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New =Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle17 {COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso- style-type: =personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font- family: =Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 {page: Section1} "Taking the timeto = that move, I shouldn't think Sinclair was much of an = the distinction of spline/spine. But more to the point, Iwould = that if you have much of a detectable spline/spine, you have built a = "accuracy factor" itself, there are way, = inaccuracy is attributable only tothe = (assuming the well-built rod). guys! cheers, =Bill -----------------------------------------------------Click here = Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- Tim Doughty Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001= PMSubject: Spine or Spline: Just = add my two cents after watching the thread on this subject. It had me = backbonelike part. Spline is a long, narrow, thin strip of wood, = slat. One is used for the biological and the other to described made = I will continue to use the term Spline that was taught to me by my = referred to in many books on rodmaking. In my experience spline does = does make a difference in performance, I would refer you to M. = Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook where he says "Check the spline of rod = yourself; the factories often paid no attention at all to the spline = can improve the performance of the rod if you take the time to spline = comment = spline doesn't count is in my opinion one more step in producing a = This is just my opinion. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Feb 9 20:43:08 2001 (may be forged)) f1A2h8e04033 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Spine John -- What you say makes sense as usual. Also, if I'm in my workshop alone whowill know what I really do down there..... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spine Barry;It's another one of the fetishes started by Everett Garrison, few if anyof the production companies(including Payne, Leonard and Dickerson, allof whom used strips from 2 culms in a rod) did this. think about it, ifyou are working alone in your basement, making rods one at a time,doesn't it keep the clutter down to just deal with one culm at a time?John "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Art -- This isn't exactly the issue you raised, but your comment reminds me....Inever have understood the fetish about making a rod all from the sameculm.This could not have anything to do with consistency of the bamboo.Oppositesides of the same culm are different in many cases, while matching ispossible when you mix strips from different culms, if matching mattersthatmuch. It can't be a matter of quality in any practical sense, since theability to choose the best strips from multiple culms is at least as goodaway to guarantee quality of the material itself. I can only think thatthisis one of those arbitrary and challenging approaches that gives peoplepleasure, rather than a matter of craftsmanship or quality in any othersense. Not that I'm against it for that reason. After all, fishing with bamboo oreven plastic poles is an arbitrary and challenging way to get a trout.(Plastic explosives work much better if you don't use too much.) So ifit'smore fun to make a rod this way, go for it and enjoy it. But when thiskindof thing gets cloaked in the aura of virtuous craftsmanship (not that yousaid this, Art, but it's not uncommon), as if anyone doing otherwise is asomewhat lower form of life, I instinctively look upwind to locate thestockyards I'm smelling. Sorry, I think I got a bit carried away. But no, not everyone does this. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Spine Stuart,I split my tip STRIPS (not splines) from the same double-pieces (2no.1's, 2 no. 2's etc.) and then the tips are exactly the same. I thought alldid that....Art At 08:33 AM 02/08/2001 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote:Hi Bob, Do you match your tips? If so, how does one do this and follow eachsectionsindividual spine? How can I stagger nodes in a spiral from butt totipand stillfollow the spine? Should we view each section as totally independent ofeachother? When yes then there can be no real point in keeping split stripsin theorder that they come from the culm in. Is there anything to say that the sections then should not come from different culms? Thanks Stuart Bob Nunley wrote: I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking and I'veonlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on.Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexesquicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Feb 9 21:08:34 2001 f1A38Xe04541 Subject: Re: Spine One of the fifteen or more "Waara Taper" rods that will be at this year'sGrand Gathering is a 3 piece version made from the left over strips from 10or more culms. The only consideration given to node and strip position wasto insure no two nodes were adjacent to each other. ----------From: Kling, Barry W. Cc: Rodmakers Subject: RE: SpineDate: Friday, February 09, 2001 9:42 PM John -- What you say makes sense as usual. Also, if I'm in my workshop alone whowill know what I really do down there..... Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:52 PM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Spine Barry;It's another one of the fetishes started by Everett Garrison, few if anyof the production companies(including Payne, Leonard and Dickerson, allof whom used strips from 2 culms in a rod) did this. think about it, ifyou are working alone in your basement, making rods one at a time,doesn't it keep the clutter down to just deal with one culm at a time?John "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Art -- This isn't exactly the issue you raised, but your comment remindsme....Inever have understood the fetish about making a rod all from the sameculm.This could not have anything to do with consistency of the bamboo.Oppositesides of the same culm are different in many cases, while matching ispossible when you mix strips from different culms, if matching mattersthatmuch. It can't be a matter of quality in any practical sense, since theability to choose the best strips from multiple culms is at least asgoodaway to guarantee quality of the material itself. I can only think thatthisis one of those arbitrary and challenging approaches that gives peoplepleasure, rather than a matter of craftsmanship or quality in any othersense. Not that I'm against it for that reason. After all, fishing with bamboooreven plastic poles is an arbitrary and challenging way to get a trout.(Plastic explosives work much better if you don't use too much.) So ifit'smore fun to make a rod this way, go for it and enjoy it. But when thiskindof thing gets cloaked in the aura of virtuous craftsmanship (not thatyousaid this, Art, but it's not uncommon), as if anyone doing otherwise isasomewhat lower form of life, I instinctively look upwind to locate thestockyards I'm smelling. Sorry, I think I got a bit carried away. But no, not everyone doesthis. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Spine Stuart,I split my tip STRIPS (not splines) from the same double-pieces(2no.1's, 2 no. 2's etc.) and then the tips are exactly the same. I thoughtalldid that....Art At 08:33 AM 02/08/2001 +0100, stuart moultrie wrote:Hi Bob, Do you match your tips? If so, how does one do this and follow eachsectionsindividual spine? How can I stagger nodes in a spiral from butt totipand stillfollow the spine? Should we view each section as totally independentofeachother? When yes then there can be no real point in keeping splitstripsin theorder that they come from the culm in. Is there anything to say thatthe sections then should not come from different culms? Thanks Stuart Bob Nunley wrote: I've built a lot of rods over the last decade + of rodmaking andI'veonlyhad a handful of rods that you could NOT find a spline on.Inescapable factof life in rodmaking, whether it be cane or composite. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Troutgetter@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Spline In a message dated 2/7/2001 8:07:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,nobler@satx.rr.com writes: certainculm, and glued, etc., isn't there always one side where it flexesquicker?This says to me, that each blank will have its own spline ???GMA >>I think soMike from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Feb 9 22:10:24 2001 f1A4ANe05457 2001 20:10:25 PST Subject: Re: The Spine in the Splines i do it opposite of garrison most of the time. timothy --- Bill Hoy wrote:So where does everyone place their guides, on thesp(l)ine, or the opposite flat? I've seen references on this list an elsewhere Bill At 09:53 AM 2/10/01 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:The correct location of the spline makes adifference in playing a fishalso. I made a cane spinning rod a few years ago ,and did not locate thespline. When using this rod to play a large fish ithas this unfortunatefeature of suddenly twisting sideways as the splinetakes over when the rodis under pressure. I am now very careful about the alignment of thespline and the spine. Ian----- Original Message -----From: "Richard R. Dutcher" Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 7:13 AMSubject: The Spine in the Splines Okay, Now that I know how to do it, why I am Idoing it? The input on thissubject has been very informative and muchappreciated but, I am still aninexperienced "Bamboo Beaver" and need a littleback ground information onsome of these finer points of discussion. BambooBeaver, I think I'll usethis one. I am assuming that the spine would havelittle to do with the strengthof a rod i.e., playing a fish. But, would bemost significant in castingcharacteristics. Anyone care to comment? Regards,DickThe Bamboo Beaver Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from cwgray@lightcom.net Sat Feb 10 01:44:43 2001 f1A7ige07634 Subject: Value on Goodwin Granger? List folks, need your help, Recently a Goodwin Granger Denver Special came available locally. It is a 9 ft 3/2 but the mid and one tip are short. The mid is 4 in short and the broken tip is 8 in short. The rod has been revarnished at some point, probabaly when one or other of the broken sections was repaired. It has what looks to be the original bag and tube (label missing). It was purchased new by a relative of the seller, the original owner passed away a couple of years ago at 106. The guides and ferrells look to be OK, most of the windings are also, although I'm not sure if it was rewrapped when revarnished. The grip is in good shape and likely cleaned also. There is also the reel with it, a Pfluger "Gem" No. 2095. In checking some of the classic sites prices for this rod seem to run $300 - $400 but for what I suspect are in much better condition than this one. Near as I could find the reel would run $50 +/-. It is a large reel, black, in fair condition. Also any information on line size would be helpful. I figure if I bought it it would be a wall hanger that still got in some fishing. Any help is appreciated. Thanks CW GrayC W Graycwgray@lightcom.net from EM11EM22@aol.com Sat Feb 10 03:10:17 2001 f1A9AHe08426 Subject: spines Dear List:This is what I have gleaned from building graphite and glass rods for 16 years, and working for "the old" Scott Powr-Ply in Berkeley.If you hold the tip or butt at a 45 degree angle, with the tip (of the tip or butt) in the left hand, and the butt (of the tip or butt) on a table.Then with the right hand, press down in the middle of the part, and roll the part back and forth. You will feel the "kick" or "spine," as it rolls back and forth.(That is how we flex tested parts for failure, bend it into a "U", and find the spine.)Sometimes they would break with an explosive SNAP!Because graphite "overlaps" itself, there will be a "kick," sometimes 2 (a hard and soft kick).If you stand the part on end (vertical), and push straight down on the tip, the part will default to a bend. (It will be the natural bend of the rod under a load. And that bend will place the "spine/kick" on either side of the direction of the bend. It's like wearing a knee brace, your knee will only bend naturally from front to back.When the guides are placed on the opposite side from the strongest "kick", then the most stored power is lifting the line from the water for the back cast. (fly rods)If the guides are placed on the same side as the "kick", then the most stored power is used in the forward cast. (casting and spinning rods)Either way, as the rod deforms and bends (casting or fighting a fish), the natural path for the rod is to twist (at least to some degree) to the path of least resistance (I.E. like the knee brace example).I think there are benefits from any of the choices.If bamboo exhibits the same "kick" tendencies, wouldn't the results be the same as graphite? (Even though they are dissimilar materials.............)Regards to the list and thanks for a great place to visit and learn.................Edward Miller (on the west coast) from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Feb 10 04:48:09 2001 f1AAm7e09094 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Value on Goodwin Granger? CW, $300 to $400 is for a complete 9' Granger with 2 tips. All sectionsequal length and in EX. cond. What you have there is a parts rod. Withthe bag and tube $100. The reel $30-$50 more. Marty List folks, need your help, Recently a Goodwin Granger Denver Special came available locally.It is a 9 ft 3/2 but the mid and one tip are short. The mid is 4 inshort and the broken tip is 8 in short. The rod has been revarnishedat some point, probabaly when one or other of the broken sectionswas repaired. It has what looks to be the original bag and tube(label missing). It was purchased new by a relative of the seller, theoriginal owner passed away a couple of years ago at 106. Theguides and ferrells look to be OK, most of the windings are also,although I'm not sure if it was rewrapped when revarnished. Thegrip is in good shape and likely cleaned also. There is also the reelwith it, a Pfluger "Gem" No. 2095. In checking some of the classic sites prices for this rod seem to run$300 - $400 but for what I suspect are in much better condition thanthis one. Near as I could find the reel would run $50 +/-. It is alarge reel, black, in fair condition. Also any information on line size would be helpful. I figure if I bought it it would be a wall hanger that still got in somefishing. Any help is appreciated. Thanks CW GrayC W Graycwgray@lightcom.net from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Feb 10 07:12:35 2001 f1ADCYe10030 Subject: planing form I am going to my friend Bob's house today to cut my planing form to size, making identical pieces (I hope!) so NOW I have a question about the 60degree bevel. It APPEARS ( from CAne Rodmakers FAQ website) that the cut is .030 deep all the way along the tip side and .090 all along the Butt side. TRUE or FALSE? If true We can cut the bevel on his joiner or his small router table (as opposed to his LARGE router table, his shop is really equipped! He makes Jewelry for a living, VERY fine furinature for a hobby!) IS POSSIBLE??thanksmark from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Feb 10 07:16:25 2001 f1ADGOe10225 +0100 Subject: just checking This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0936D.263CA1C0 just to see if I was kicked off - no mail all day.... regards, carsten ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0936D.263CA1C0 just to see if I was kicked off - no = day.... regards, carsten ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0936D.263CA1C0-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Feb 10 09:51:02 2001 f1AFp1e13346 Subject: Re: planing form Mark, You need to put a taper into the grove for a final planing form. This isexplained very well on Thomas Penrose'd site at:http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/tonkin.htm Also See Bruce Conner's FAQ on building forms with wood athttp://www.cybercom.net/%7Ebconner/rodNframes.html Don't do anything until you have looked at these sources! See also WaynesBook or several articles in the "Best of the Planing Form." Good Luck-Doug At 08:12 AM 2/10/01 EST, Lazybee45@aol.com wrote:I am going to my friend Bob's house today to cut my planing form to size, making identical pieces (I hope!) so NOW I have a question about the60degree bevel. It APPEARS ( from CAne Rodmakers FAQ website) that the cut is.030 deep all the way along the tip side and .090 all along the Butt side. TRUE or FALSE? If true We can cut the bevel on his joiner or his small router table (as opposed to his LARGE router table, his shop is really equipped!He makes Jewelry for a living, VERY fine furinature for a hobby!) ISPOSSIBLE??thanksmark Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from caneman@clnk.com Sat Feb 10 09:52:15 2001 f1AFqEe13495 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: planing form Mark... better read a somewhere else... there is a site out there somewhere,and it may be on Thomas Penroses' site that deals with cutting the groove indetail (not sure whose site, but it's one of the ones on my Link Page). Butthe groove is definitely not a straight cut down both sides. it is tapered.Basically if your form is completely closed you would be able to plane asmall tapered strip.Now, do NOT use these numbers, because I'm just doing this off the topof my head, but you need a slope on you tapered groove of something like.0015 per inch, so on a 60 inch form, the groove (total, not one side) onthe tip side of your form, would start at .030 on the tip end and end up at.090 on the butt end. on your butt side it would start at .090 and end at.180" Like I said, I'm not sure if that's the slope that is of standarduse, but that slope wouuld definitely work. That would make it possible foryou to make rods with tip sections as fine as .060 and butt sections asheavy as you wish... Check around and see if you can find the proper slope Later, and good luck,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: planing form I am going to my friend Bob's house today to cut my planing form to size,making identical pieces (I hope!) so NOW I have a question about the60degreebevel. It APPEARS ( from CAne Rodmakers FAQ website) that the cut is.030deep all the way along the tip side and .090 all along the Butt side. TRUEor FALSE? If true We can cut the bevel on his joiner or his small routertable (as opposed to his LARGE router table, his shop is really equipped!Hemakes Jewelry for a living, VERY fine furinature for a hobby!) ISPOSSIBLE??thanksmark from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Feb 10 10:43:14 2001 f1AGhDe14320 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) 0600 Subject: Possible virus? Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0934E.B6C882A0 Hello folks, I keep getting a message from ( Hahaha ---Entitled --- snow =white and the seven dwarfs.) It has an attachment with it. I have =received it several times lately when checking messages from the list. =Does anyone know if it is a virus etc. I deleted it completely from my =system each time. My virus protection is active with no alerts. Maybe =I'm just panicky. Thanks in advance. Randall Gregory NW AR. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0934E.B6C882A0 Hello folks, I keep getting a message = attachment with it. I have received it several times lately when = messages from the list. Does anyone know if it is a virus etc. I deleted = completely from my system each time. My virus protection is active with = AR. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0934E.B6C882A0-- from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Feb 10 10:43:43 2001 f1AGhhe14335 " Randall Gregory" Subject: RE: My little gripe what he is saying is that instead of basic asc ii text some people are using html(hyper text markup language)to send their email in the format of web pages. if you are using outlook hit the format button on thetop of the editing screen when you write an email,then hit the options button, it will either be "plain text", "html", "enriched text"choose the plain text if using outlook expresshit the tools button on the top of the pagethen options, then the send tab, then selectplain text if using netscape composer, hit edit, then preferences,then the plus sign next to mail/news groups, then the formatting option, then choose the plain text editor use the plain text, for two reasonsone, just about everything can read asc iisecond, reduces the risk of passing a worm/virusto the list. hope this helps Brad -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: My little gripe Harry,Me too!Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: My little gripe Harry I don't even know what that means. Am I doing it? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Randall Gregory" Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 4:46 PMSubject: Re: My little gripe How do you turn it off? I am not sure if mine is the problem or not. Iwon'tbe offended if someone were to tell me that I am. I just need to know sothat I can fix it. Sorry, I'm not really into puters, just rods andstuff.Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:35 PMSubject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Feb 10 10:48:49 2001 f1AGmne14723 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Possible virus? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_032A_01C0934E.DFFFF680 Randall,I have gotten it several times to, and I "think" it is a virus. The =email address it comes from is a dummy address that you can't mail back =to, and I know there is a virus out there called SnowWhite, so I do as =you did, delete it from inbox, then delete it from deleted files. I =don't open any attachment unless I'm expecting one from somebody. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Randall Gregory Date: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:44 AMSubject: Possible virus? Hello folks, I keep getting a message from ( Hahaha ---Entitled --- =snow white and the seven dwarfs.) It has an attachment with it. I have =received it several times lately when checking messages from the list. =Does anyone know if it is a virus etc. I deleted it completely from my =system each time. My virus protection is active with no alerts. Maybe =I'm just panicky. Thanks in advance. Randall Gregory NW AR. ------=_NextPart_000_032A_01C0934E.DFFFF680 Randall, it = comes from is a dummy address that you can't mail back to, and I know = virus out there called SnowWhite, so I do as you did, delete it from = expecting one from somebody. Bob -----Original = rodmakers list serv <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:44 AMSubject:Possible = virus?Hello folks, I keep getting a = has an attachment with it. I have received it several times lately = checking messages from the list. Does anyone know if it is a virus = deleted it completely from my system each time. My virus protection = active with no alerts. Maybe I'm just panicky. Thanks in advance. = Gregory NW AR. ------=_NextPart_000_032A_01C0934E.DFFFF680-- from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Feb 10 11:03:46 2001 f1AH3je15090 sender ) rodmakers list serv Subject: Re: Possible virus? Randall my activated Norton Anitvirus claims it is a virus, so do not open the mail. Christian 10-02-2001 10:46:24, "Randall Gregory" wrote: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:46:24 -0600 Organization:Subject: Possible virus?Hello folks, I keep getting a message from ( Hahaha ---Entitled --- snowwhite and the seven dwarfs.) It has an attachment with it. I have received it several times lately when checking messages from the list. Doesanyoneknow if it is a virus etc. I deleted it completely from my system eachtime. My virus protection is active with no alerts. Maybe I'm justpanicky. Thanks in advance. Randall Gregory NW AR. from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Feb 10 11:12:12 2001 f1AHCBe15364 Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:11:14 -0500 "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Possible virus? Hi Randall:I got a warning about this a month ago. It is a virus. About two days later, I received it for the first time. Luckily, I knew enough to delete it and run the virus check, etc... I have received it several times since. I guess someone on the list has it or someone is out to get us.Bob At 10:46 AM 2/10/2001 -0600, Randall Gregory wrote:Hello folks, I keep getting a message from ( Hahaha ---Entitled --- snow white and the seven dwarfs.) It has an attachment with it. I have received it several times lately when checking messages from the list. Does anyone know if it is a virus etc. I deleted it completely from my system each time. My virus protection is active with no alerts. Maybe I'm just panicky. Thanks in advance. Randall Gregory NW AR. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from rp43640@online-club.de Sat Feb 10 11:13:09 2001 f1AHD8e15491 sender ) Subject: California Does anybody have any suggestion for fishing in california this comingsummer?We will be most likely in state parks but if time allows it would be interestingto knowwhat would be worthwhile to look (fish).Thank you. Christian from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Feb 10 11:37:42 2001 f1AHbfe16179 Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:39:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Possible virus? --------------3337BC94FEF7A73A0E4A6652 It ia a virus and I get them in various formsseveral times a day also from Ha Ha. DON'T openit.Tony FlyTyr@southshore,com Randall Gregory wrote: Hello folks, I keep getting a message from (Hahaha ---Entitled --- snow white and the sevendwarfs.) It has an attachment with it. I havereceived it several times lately when checkingmessages from the list. Does anyone know if itis a virus etc. I deleted it completely from mysystem each time. My virus protection is activewith no alerts. Maybe I'm just panicky. Thanksin advance. Randall Gregory NW AR. --------------3337BC94FEF7A73A0E4A6652 It ia a virus and I get them in various forms several times a day also from Ha Ha. DON'T open it. Randall Gregory wrote: Hellofolks, I keep getting a message from ( Hahaha ---Entitled --- snow whiteand the seven dwarfs.) It has an attachment with it. I have received itseveral times lately when checking messages from the list. Does anyoneknow if it is a virus etc. I deleted it completely from my system eachtime. My virus protection is active with no alerts. Maybe I'm just panicky.Thanks in advance. Randall Gregory NW AR. --------------3337BC94FEF7A73A0E4A6652-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Feb 10 12:06:15 2001 f1AI6Ee16691 Subject: Wiring question Folks,I've shared before that I am blissfully ignorant when itcomes to anything electric, so you'll understand when I ask I wired a little 1rpm motor this morning in hopes ofusing it with a large spool and a dip tank. Everythingseemed to work great. There's one problem though: When Iplug it in, it turns clockwise. Unplug it. Plug it inagain. Turns Counter clock wise. Not every time, but about75% of the time. What did I do wrong? Thanks in advance,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Feb 10 12:23:05 2001 f1AIN5e17166 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) 0600 Subject: Re: My little gripe Organization: Makes sense to me. Thanks, Randall G. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: My little gripe well first the html can carry scripts which can do some harm.all the "source code"/ tags are hidden from the user so you reallydont know what your getting, its pretty on the outside and no tellingwhat is on the inside. second the "source code" is what is sent and all the words of themessage is enclosed in tags and the old email viewers freak out on thetags, they just dont understand them This is sample of what the tags look likethe old programs just dont know what to doso the machines lock up or just dont work well also using html can really suck up the bandwidth with all theadded tags that are needed to generate the page. my wife wason a mailing list that one of the ladies sent a picture ofa castle as background and theme music on every posting.it took about 10 minutes to down load each of her posts. also remember that some people in the world are still paying web access so it is just kinda nice not to plug up their serverswith unwanted tags. hope this shed some light on the subject Brad -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:56 AM Subject: Re: My little gripe Bradley, Just a curiosity, but how and what does sending in html do? Inwhatway does it create problems? I figure I might as well learn from what Ifix.Thanks Again, Randall R. Gregory ----- Original Message -----From: Bradley Love RandallGregory Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:39 AMSubject: RE: My little gripe what he is saying is that instead of basic asc ii textsome people are using html(hyper text markup language)to send their email in the format of web pages. if you are using outlook hit the format button on thetop of the editing screen when you write an email,then hit the options button, itwill either be "plain text", "html", "enriched text"choose the plain text if using outlook expresshit the tools button on the top of the pagethen options, then the send tab, then selectplain text if using netscape composer, hit edit, then preferences,then the plus sign next to mail/news groups, thenthe formatting option, then choose the plain text editor use the plain text, for two reasonsone, just about everything can read asc iisecond, reduces the risk of passing a worm/virusto the list. hope this helpsBrad -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 6:45 PM Cc: 'RODMAKERS'Subject: Re: My little gripe Harry,Me too!Dave-----Original Message-----From: petermckean Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Date: Friday, February 09, 2001 5:21 AMSubject: Re: My little gripe Harry I don't even know what that means. Am I doing it? Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Randall Gregory" Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 4:46 PMSubject: Re: My little gripe How do you turn it off? I am not sure if mine is the problem or not.Iwon'tbe offended if someone were to tell me that I am. I just need to knowsothat I can fix it. Sorry, I'm not really into puters, just rods andstuff.Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:35 PMSubject: My little gripe Friends,I don't gripe too much, and I hope you will hear meout. My computer is a little like me, old and fat andslow. When we use html coding in our emails, it oftencauses problems for other list members. In fact, it crashesmy computer regularly enought to be a problem.I'm not computer savvy enough to tell you how to turn itoff, but some of the members of this list are. I know manyof you, Bob Nunley for example, turn html off for messagesto the list. And I appreciate it. Some of the rest of usought to consider doing the same.Gripe mode off,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Feb 10 13:04:32 2001 f1AJ4Ve18123 Subject: Re: Wiring Question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C09305.711205E0 HarryI don't think your wiring is wrong .It is probably the type of motor.I have a small motor I use for wrapping and it does the same thing. I =could be wrong here,I'm no electrician. Howevermy motor is a 110 with two wires to