from miangler@yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 00:32:30 2001 f216WTe08981 2001 22:32:26 PST Subject: Status Report.... Well, more questions... Got a Baker 1" dial gauge onebay tonight, now I need to figure out how and whereto get one of those bases that is used in conjunctionwith it. Also, if anyone has an extra 60 degree pointI will purchase... better yet, does anyone know whereI can obtain one. I have heard that you have to makeone on a lathe...which I of course don't have! I gotin contact with a fishing woodworker that has a fullyoutfitted shop and we're going to make a planing formin a few weeks. I am enjoying the process! Thanks, Mike Janik =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from bh887@lafn.org Thu Mar 1 00:32:47 2001 f216Wke09031 forged)) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: 7.0 Earthquake in Seattle Hey Darrel......Are you forgetting the Northridge quake? My memory tells methat scaled out to 7.1. And we HAVE had more rain than Seattle so far thisyear. Your right about the rest...go figure! Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: 7.0 Earthquake in Seattle Well, That's worse than California has ever had... Also, I think California hashad more rain this year so far than Washington... go figure... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DutcherSent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:10 PM Subject: 7.0 Earthquake in Seattle Hello All, This was the hardest earthquake I have yet to experience. I wasonboardon the bridge at the time. I could feel pounding on the hull of the boat,then the vessel started to rise and fall. I could not see any visiblecauseat the time. Next the water in the harbor began to percolate straight intothe air, no waves, just spiting straight up something like a tide rip.Finally the pilings in the dock system began to pound the docks. I did notthink those things could move so much. I have been through eighty mile perhour winds at this mooring and that does not come close to the movementIsaw to day. The whole thing lasted a little more than thirty seconds. A longduration for an earthquake, I am told. The boat is still afloat, thebamboois still in the appropriate number of pieces, and me, I need a shower andachange of clothes. Regards to all,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Mar 1 03:09:15 2001 f2199Ee11798 Subject: Re: wrapping thread -- now thread sizes In a message dated 2/28/01 8:53:07 PM Central Standard Time, Troutgetter@aol.com writes: The place where I buy my Pvc also sells spray paint! A little sandpaper, a few minutes with a spray can (flourescent orange is good, I don't lose my rod case that way) a Sanford Sharpie Marker for the "custom engraved nameplate" (as plano would call it) and VOILA! I even put strapping tape and D rings on the case so I can hook in a shoulder strap!Actually I have two rather nice rod cases. One is an aluminum tube with a screw in cap the other is a plastic tube. They were origianally designed don't remember where I got them exactly, but any blueprint supply place will have them i think. They can be fairly expensive. BUT I think the plastic ones are cheap enough. Personally if I were to actually BUY one, I would go to a mail supply (mail boxes etc as an example) and purchase a mailing tube with plastic caps. Tape one end closed, cut the tube to length, slip in the rod (in it's rod bag!) and you have a custom built case! If you want to take the trouble, you can make really NICE appearing cases by using contact paper in a variety of beautiful , designer colors and patterns too. I have seen granite, wood, holstein, and many bright colors!(with tongue firmly in cheek) mark "Piscator non solum Piscatur" from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Mar 1 05:38:03 2001 f21Bc1e13346 f21Bbq016785; Subject: Re: Sharpening James I don't sharpen with a microbevel. I have tried it and don't see that in myhands it offers any advantages. I am pretty fussy about the edges on my sharps, and like to be able to seewhere I am in the honing process; neither do I mind sharpening a bit moreoften. To me, it's a hobby, an avocation rather than a vocation, and Iguess I am doing it in the first place to pass the time agreeably. Microbevels seem to me just to give two angles to worry about and to keepin balance; either that or you find yourself from strip to strip planingwith one of a sort of random assortment of microbevels, bevels, ormacrobevels! I sharpen at about 35 degrees, I keep it VERY sharp, I don't try to move toomuch cane at a pass, and ( I just know that I am going to be sorry that Isaid this ) I don't chip nodes. My two bob's worth! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with a micro-bevel? To thosewhohave tried it both with and without, which do you prefer and why? from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 1 07:00:17 2001 f21D0Ge14170 Subject: Re: Sharpening James(and Peter);I suppose there needs to be a Devil's Advocate here. I do use a second bevel,Istart with the 30d bevel the blade comes with then put a second bevel of35d onit, mainly because the second bevel only takes a minute or two to resharpenandthe full bevel takes much longer. When I need to resharpen, I am usually tooantsy to get to planing strips to have the patience to spend too much timesharpening. I do most of my shop work between getting home from work anddinner,so time is of the essence.John Peter McKean wrote: James I don't sharpen with a microbevel. I have tried it and don't see that in myhands it offers any advantages. I am pretty fussy about the edges on my sharps, and like to be able to seewhere I am in the honing process; neither do I mind sharpening a bit moreoften. To me, it's a hobby, an avocation rather than a vocation, and Iguess I am doing it in the first place to pass the time agreeably. Microbevels seem to me just to give two angles to worry about and tokeepin balance; either that or you find yourself from strip to strip planingwith one of a sort of random assortment of microbevels, bevels, ormacrobevels! I sharpen at about 35 degrees, I keep it VERY sharp, I don't try to move toomuch cane at a pass, and ( I just know that I am going to be sorry that Isaid this ) I don't chip nodes. My two bob's worth! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "James Piotrowski" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:44 AMSubject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with a micro-bevel? To thosewhohave tried it both with and without, which do you prefer and why? from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 1 08:15:09 2001 f21EF9e15871 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:15:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Status Report.... Mike, The base can be made or purchased. It is just a piece of metal thatwill hold the gauge. The point can be purchased from an Industrial Supply House. I have beenaway from Kalamazoo for too long (30 Yrs) to know the names of suchplacesthere now, but there used to be some on the near north side of town out byKings Highway area. I know there are several in a town the size ofKalamazoo. Starette (sp) makes a good one. They are less than $5.00 apiece. I don't know the status of lumber yards there any more either. But the L.L.Johnson Lumber Yard in Charlotte or Grand Rapids has very good gradehardwoods. My brother in Lansing buys from them. They have a website(www.theworkbench.com). Hope this helps.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Status Report.... Well, more questions... Got a Baker 1" dial gauge onebay tonight, now I need to figure out how and whereto get one of those bases that is used in conjunctionwith it. Also, if anyone has an extra 60 degree pointI will purchase... better yet, does anyone know whereI can obtain one. I have heard that you have to makeone on a lathe...which I of course don't have! I gotin contact with a fishing woodworker that has a fullyoutfitted shop and we're going to make a planing formin a few weeks. I am enjoying the process! Thanks, Mike Janik =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from parataper@hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 08:49:26 2001 f21EnPe17094 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 06:49:21 -0800 HTTP; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:49:21 GMT Subject: Re: Status Report.... FILETIME=[CD2B81E0:01C0A25E] Mike, When you taper a steel form, most likely you will use a 60 deg file glued to a block of plywood. If you do, use the same setup to make a 60 deg point. Chuck a short non-60 deg point in a drill press, and lie the file glued to the plywood on the drill press table, file side up. Run it along the chucked point to get the 60 deg point. If this is hard to understand, (it's hard to explain) contact me and I will try to explain further. Mark From: Mike Janik Subject: Status Report.... Well, more questions... Got a Baker 1" dial gauge onebay tonight, now I need to figure out how and whereto get one of those bases that is used in conjunctionwith it. Also, if anyone has an extra 60 degree pointI will purchase... better yet, does anyone know whereI can obtain one. I have heard that you have to makeone on a lathe...which I of course don't have! I gotin contact with a fishing woodworker that has a fullyoutfitted shop and we're going to make a planing formin a few weeks. I am enjoying the process! Thanks, Mike Janik =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Mar 1 09:14:55 2001 f21FEse18028 Subject: Splitting Help Okay, this is probably not a new question, but here goes. Most of the toolsare built, except a couple of major ones (oven, binder), and I'm working onthose (or rather on dealing with those problems).Got my first culm last week (gotta say one more time, that Russ Gooding is astandup guy). Splitting was an adventure to say the least. I split outhalf of the top half of the culm (or a 1/4 culm). Most of that got wasted,but I'm starting to get the hang of it. Ready to rip up the other half, sohere is the question. How big do you split your splines. I've got the Garrison/Carmichael book,in which they recommend splitting to 3/16 larger than the largest finisheddimension of the spline. I'm making a 7' trout rod, and 3/16 is more thantwice the largest dimension of the tip strip. Do I really need to split outpieces 3x the size the spline? I realize there will be shrinkage in heattreating, and mistakes in planing along the way, but that seems huge, lotsof extra planing, lots of wasted cane. How large do you split? TIA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 10:02:38 2001 f21G2ce21377 Subject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone give me aphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand they have "A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from rextutor@about.com Thu Mar 1 10:19:20 2001 f21GJJe22559 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 08:19:14 -0800 Subject: Fixer to blue Peter Mckean and DannyI have tried Kodak rapid fixer with no luck at all. I followed peters instructions and tried several variations. I must have the wrong stuff. It is liquid in parts a and B , fixer and hardner. The ferrules stay shinney . ANy ideas ? sources of solutionTIARex Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Mar 1 10:27:08 2001 f21GR8e23195 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Thu Mar 1 10:33:22 2001 f21GXLe23726 1 Mar 2001 11:32:56 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Darrell, Not anymore. I wish it was. I think they cashed it in sometime in the1960s or 70s. I have a couple of their catalogs from the 1930s. I wish Icould have time warped back to see that store in its prime. One of those old catalogs advertised 3 piece tubular steel rods with 2 tipsections. You HAD to have 2 tips in those days to compete with bamboos! Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Mar 1 10:55:01 2001 f21Gt0e25172 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Fixer to blue Rex, I believe it is the same stuff Peter is using with great success. I had theT- Max and Ilford stuff in my dark room and tried it, it worked so I haven'ttried other..... Are You sure Your ferrules are NS? I have used it on Tony's, I'm not surewhat % of nickel they are.... regardsdanny From: "Rex Tutor" Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:20:39 -0700 Subject: Fixer to blue Peter Mckean and DannyI have tried Kodak rapid fixer with no luck at all. I followed petersinstructions and tried several variations. I must have the wrongstuff. It is liquid in parts a and B , fixer and hardner. Theferrules stay shinney .ANy ideas ? sources of solutionTIARex Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from jhewittiii@springsips.com Thu Mar 1 11:04:15 2001 f21H4Ee25679 springsips.com) (63.29.89.124) Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop GMA,The Angler's Workshop catalog lists their phone number as (360)225- 9445.They also have a toll free FAX # it is: (800) 278-1069.John. nobler wrote: This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone give meaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand they have"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Mar 1 11:27:24 2001 f21HRNe26757 Subject: Re: Fixer to blue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0A1E6.00EA9EE0 Rex about 15 minutes instead of wiping it on with a rag.Make sure you have a strong mixture and if this does not work than Danny =is right ,your ferrules may not be nickel silver. My fixer takes longer =to react than brass blackwould. I use Kodak fixer in the powder form and mix it with water. Let =me know if it works.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0A1E6.00EA9EE0 RexTry submerging the parts in themixture = about 15 minutes instead of wiping it = rag.Make sure you have a strong mixtureand = does not work than Danny is right ,your ferrules may not be nickel = would. I use Kodak fixer in the powder = it with water. Let me know if it works.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0A1E6.00EA9EE0-- from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Thu Mar 1 13:21:34 2001 f21JLXe01133 Subject: Rodmakers at Grayrock 2001 Hello Folks, Preparations are well under way for this year's Rodmakers Gathering in Grayling, Michigan. Official dates are June 21st thru June 23rd, however, as always folks start showing up as early as June 17th for some fishing, and general hanging-out at "The Clubhouse" The Grayrock 2001 organizing committee this year is... * Wayne Cattanach - Programs; Food; Publicity; Treasurer ;-) Helping Wayne out this year is... * Dennis Higham & Doug Hall - Programs* Miles & Cheryl Teirnan - Food* Charlie Curro - Publicity (great job on the web page Charlie!)* Mike Biondo - Treasurer A tentative program is already in the works. Please take a look at Rodmakers at Grayrock 2001 webpagehttp://www.curro.net/grayrock2001/ for a look at the program and a registration form (please register early). Also happening the same weekend is the (in)famous Trout Bum Bar-B-Que. If you are interested in finding out more and/or http://www.troutbums.com/ and follow the links. Please stay tuned, more will be forthcoming...if anyone has any questions and/or program suggestions feel free to contact myself, or Dennis (Dennishigham@cs.com) Mike Biondo from jourdoktorn@chello.se Thu Mar 1 14:47:10 2001 f21Kl9e04607 (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 license13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65) Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:46:29 +0100 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Hi Darrel, I suppose you mean the H.L. Leonard Co i Texas? There is a website offering"original" Leonard rods. I do not know if this person bought the Leonardcompany or not but it really seems that way when reading on the website.Hereis the link to see for yourself.http://www.hlleonard.com/I tried to email this company a year ago and did not receive any answerthough. Thanks,Jan Nystrom Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from thogan@rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 1 15:45:08 2001 f21Lj7e06913 Subject: Re: Sharpening A micro-bevel is a must. There is no room for argument. I encourage you todiscuss this with a someone who makes his/her living by making hand madefurniture that involves a hand plane. I have found the micro bevel atime- saver! I giggle at those who have found bamboo nodes a problems asthisis indicitive of a dull blade, not the material. By the best blade and planeyou can afford. Read all you can in properly adjusting the plane. This willpay back multi-fold. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with a micro-bevel? To thosewhohave tried it both with and without, which do you prefer and why? from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 16:19:06 2001 f21MJ4e08099 2001 14:19:06 PST Subject: Re: Sharpening taylor, i will agree with you that there is nosubstitute for a sharp plane blade. i have used amicrobevel before and although it does speed up thesharpening process in the short term it does takelonger to re-sharpen the bevel when the micro getsbigger. i still do use it from time to time tho'. i'mnot interested in a debate but am interested in anyreferences you might suggest. "sharp blade" hasdefinitely be redefined in the learning process andreferences to planing and sharpening are hard to come ps sorry about the spelling tjt --- taylor hogan wrote:A micro-bevel is a must. There is no room forargument. I encourage you todiscuss this with a someone who makes his/her living furniture that involves a hand plane. I have foundthe micro bevel atime- saver! I giggle at those who have found bamboonodes a problems as thisis indicitive of a dull blade, not the material. Bythe best blade and planeyou can afford. Read all you can in properlyadjusting the plane. This willpay back multi-fold. ----- Original Message -----From: "James Piotrowski" Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:44 PMSubject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with amicro-bevel? To those whohave tried it both with and without, which do youprefer and why? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Mar 1 17:13:26 2001 f21NDPe10247 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: thanks everyone Are you older or younger than Nunley? I was wondering if you were his -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: thanks everyone As I metioned before on this thread, anybody who hasn't tried this methodshould. Peter McKean spoke to me about how easy it was at a time when Iwasonly making nodeless rods so I didn't try it right off. When I made somerodswith nodes I initially thought the only reason nobody bandsaws is because alotof makers didn't own one. I found it it's because it's possibly the worstwayto do the job. I tried straight fences, pin fences, no fence, threats,swearing, foot stamping, thin blades, wide blades, blunt blades sharpblades,hi speed, slow and med speeds. I even kicked the saw. As a late teen in mythird year as a 'prettice boat builder I was making a glued lap plywoodyachttender dingy a week for a few months using nothing more than a band saw,blockplane and pencil so I know my way around a band saw. I've also wrecked 3brandnew router bits in a half hr from hitting hidden nails, droped an almost newdrill into the sea while it was running, watched as my (also running)outboardmotor also droped into the sea when the mounting bracket parted from theboat,almost lost a finger to a (suddenly) spinning drill bit in a morse taper.Allthese things and more I took with a shrug and put down to experience thoughI've wondered if somebody up there was hinting at something with theoutboardthing but this was different this was Tony v The Bamboo.After a couple of hrs with nothing to show but strips far too wide for myliking or very nice kindeling I switched off the bandsaw and sat down whereIam now and read Peter's explanation of Bob's method. Litteraly 15 mins laterIhad 26 perfectly split strips on my bench. My advise if you haven't tried it is to right now, get up, grab a culm andtryit. Tony At 11:38 PM 2/26/01 -0500, Spico81@aol.com wrote: I just tried Nunley's splitting method on some scrap pieces and it works great. Its fast, its efficient, and I never have to worry about cuttingmy fingers off with a saw. Thanks, Sam /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Mar 1 17:29:33 2001 f21NTWe10817 Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Hi,Their email is: info@anglersworkshop.comRay----- Original Message ----- Subject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone give meaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand they have"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Mar 1 18:00:28 2001 (may be forged)) f2200Re11835 (5.5.2653.19) "'fbcwin@3g.quik.com '" Subject: RE: wrapping thread Bob -- I got to be a believer in the strength of wraps when I systematically brokeup my third and fourth rods. A couple of scarf joints looked like they werestarting to fail (these were nodeless rods) and I decided the only way toreally know was to break the damn things up and learn what I could. Itsounds crazy but I learned a lot, including the difference in appearancebetween and good and bad scarf. Prior to this rash decision, I had added some silk wraps over a few of thequestionable-looking scarfs. I went ahead and broke the things up every wayI could -- at scarf joints, not at scarf joints, attempted to delaminatesections, etc -- and I'll tell you the places where there were wraps wouldnot readily break. I was really surprised. This was true at the reinforcingwraps, those holding down guides, etc. I used gossamer throughout, standardvarnish on the wraps. The bamboo was sound and except for a few scarfsthejoints were good, so it was a reasonably good test I think. One man'sexperience for what it's worth.... Barry from harms1@pa.net Thu Mar 1 18:45:01 2001 f220ixe13133 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:44:39 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Angler's Workshop carries YLI silk thread, though perhaps marketed undersome other name. You would probably do better on price if you were tocontact YLI directly. I have done this, but I believe they will want you todeclare yourself as a business. Not a problem. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Hi,Their email is: info@anglersworkshop.comRay----- Original Message ----- From: "nobler" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:10 AMSubject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone givemeaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand theyhave"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from oakmere@carol.net Thu Mar 1 19:00:47 2001 f2210ke13552 Subject: RE: Washington Quake Hi Folks: Glad to hear that the folks on the RMer's and FF@ lists are doing ok afterthe big one near Seattle. Take care and great to hear that all are ok. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from oakmere@carol.net Thu Mar 1 19:00:48 2001 f2210le13556 Subject: RE: 60d points Hi Mike: Try Golden Witch. They have 60d points. No financial interest. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Mar 1 19:01:01 2001 f2210te13567 Subject: Contest winner Tom Oatman, chosen at random, won the W&M Granger rod in the contest.The correct answer, BTW, was Grey Palmer. Tom will have to get busy prepping this rod for Grayrock.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 19:28:02 2001 f221S2e15105 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:21:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Back in the '80's a friend of mine who had retired from Wall St. was livinghere. He knew the people at Mills quite well, and was setting up to buildbamboo rods. He made a trip up there to buy the whole thing, but died in hissleep the first night there ! His name was Bill Parvin, and was awarded alife membership in TU for starting the chapter here, many years before. His rod collection was awesome. His wife got a friend to sell it off, so Inever knew where it went. I do recall an original Ritz, among many others.GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 19:34:54 2001 f221Yre15340 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:27:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Thanks to all for the contact with Angler's Workshop.GMA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 1 20:34:42 2001 f222Yfe16444 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:34:01 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Didn't "Johnsons" of floor wax fame buy them(Leonard) out originally?? BTWspeakingof Leonard, does anyone out there have the Leonard ACM taper?? Beentrying to get it Thanks,Shawn Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from Troutgetter@aol.com Thu Mar 1 21:05:06 2001 f22355e17335 Subject: Re: wrapping thread -- now thread sizes mcdowellc@lanecc.edu --part1_b3.7ccdb0a.27d067af_boundary In a message dated 3/1/2001 1:09:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: Personally if I were to actually BUY one, I would go to a mail supply (mail boxes etc as an example) and purchase a mailing tube with plastic caps. Tape one end closed, cut the tube to length, slip in the rod (in it's rod bag!) and you have a custom built case! If you want to take the trouble, you can make really NICE appearing cases by using contact paper in a variety of beautiful , designer colors and patterns too. I have seen granite, wood, holstein, and many bright colors!(with tongue firmly in cheek) mark Mark,Card board tubes painted flouresent orange. Why didn't I think of that! I can see them better before I back over them with the ol' landcrusher. And if I can find some material to match the old lady's drapes, then she might not bitch about a bunch of rod cases standing up next to the couch! But if I spray painted the couch flouresent orange then ....THANKS!Mike --part1_b3.7ccdb0a.27d067af_boundary In a message dated3/1/2001 1:09:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: Personally if Iwere to actually BUY one, I would go to a mail supply (mail boxes etc as an example) and purchase a mailingtube slip in the want to take the trouble, you can make really NICE appearing cases by using contact paper seen granite, wood, holstein, and many bright colors!(with tongue firmly in cheek) mark Mark,Card board tubes painted flouresent orange. Why didn't I think of that! can see them better before I back over them with the ol' landcrusher.And if I can find some material to match the old lady's drapes, then she mightnot bitch about a bunch of rod cases standing up next to the couch! But if I spray painted the couch flouresent orange then ....THANKS!Mike --part1_b3.7ccdb0a.27d067af_boundary-- from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Mar 1 21:10:05 2001 f223A5e17549 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS sale forcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taper patternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Mar 1 22:00:57 2001 f2240ve18624 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 20:00:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Shawn, Why not try Ron Kusse? http://www.ronkusse.com/ Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Shawn Pineo Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:37 PMSubject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Didn't "Johnsons" of floor wax fame buy them(Leonard) out originally?? BTWspeakingof Leonard, does anyone out there have the Leonard ACM taper?? Beentryingto get it Thanks,Shawn Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to owntheHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Mar 1 22:09:10 2001 f22499e18888 f2249tH16765; Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co f22499e18889 I thought that Ted Simroe recreated the tapers post fire, but what happenedto them I don't know. Also my understanding, is that it was graphite that putthem under. they were producing graphite rods with blanks made by Exxon, Ithink and they had problems with "exploding" Leonard stood by them, but Exxon didn't and Leonard went under. I knew aguy who was a sales rep for them at the time- Doug Davidson, but I haven'ttalked to him in years. Yes, also Johnson Wax did buy controling interest in them- they also ownedmuch of Old Town Canoe at the time, but I'm not sure if they still do.John K.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS sale forcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from thinair@townsqr.com Thu Mar 1 22:13:07 2001 f224D6e19114; compaqwww.townsqr.com ;Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:06:07 -0600 ,"and Collecting" Subject: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Here are a few spinning rod tapers for all of you taper junkies. I happento have some nice Young rods that I've measured and miked and for the timeand effort I certainly hope that someone will take it upon himself to make aSpinmaster for me Just e-mail it to me when it's finished and I'll give youa full report on how it fishes. he liked to fly fish Anyway: Spinmaster, 7'2", 3.35oz., lightly flamed, gold spiral wraps, 12 1/8"sliding ring handle, stepped 13/64 ferrule, semi-parabolic action. Loadsright through the handle into your arm. I haven't checked the taper againsta Para 13, but the rod also throws a nice 5wt.Guide spacing from tip: 5 *, 12 1/8, 19 *, 28 5/8, 37 *; 51 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0825 - .09110 - .10615 - .12620 - .14325 - .15730 - .17635 - .19240 - .207ferrule46 - .20850 - .21155 - .21660 - .22665 - .24670 - .25574 - .259 "Spin-Caster", 6'3", 3.00oz., medium flamed, made for Lewis Pyle in Apr'53,black wraps, 10 *" sliding ring handle, 16/64 Super Z ferrule.Guide spacing from tip: 6 3/16, 13 15/16, 24 5/16, 35 1/8; 46 5/8 (butt)Taper:0 - .0965 - .09810 - .11515 - .14220 - .15825 - .17430 - .19135 - .219ferrule40 - .216 (yes, I double checked the 35" and 40" measurements)45 - .22450 - .24155 - .25060 - .26664 - .274 "Special", 6'4", 3.40oz., 1955, lightly flamed, 17/64 ferrule, 8 *" slidingring handleGuide spacing from tip: 7 7/16, 16 5/16, 25 5/8, 35 5/16; 49 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0985 - .10110 - .12215 - .14820 - .15824 - .17030 - .19435 - .224ferrule41 - .22645 - .23850 - .24055 - .25760 - .26865 - .285 "Experimental Steelhead Baitcaster", 8'9", 20/64 ferrule, 8 1/4oz., Dec1948, darker cane, lightly flamed. This rod was owned by a friend of PaulYoung's in Florida (Col. O'Connell) who fished the Keys with Young. The tipis 54 *" and is ostensibly made from the tip section of the fabled andmysterious Parabolic 20. The handle is a fixed seat 15 *", crimson wraps onfoul-proof stainless steel guides. The rod does have a semi-parabolicaction loading right down into the handle and will cast about as far as youcan see.Guide spacing from tip: 6 5/8, 14 5/16, 24 3/8, 36 *, 49 5/16; 59 5/8, 72*(butt)Taper:0 - .1325 - .14010 - .15815 - .18820 - .21425 - .23230 - .24535 - .26040 - .26845 - .27650 - .29852.5 - .306ferrule57 - .32060 - .32565 - .33670 - .34275 - .36380 - .38085 - .40388.5 - .424 from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 1 22:28:07 2001 f224S5e19619 Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop guys;You can get YLI from pinetree quiltworks(quiltworks.com) for a buck a spoolcheaper than Angler'sJohn WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Angler's Workshop carries YLI silk thread, though perhaps marketed undersome other name. You would probably do better on price if you were tocontact YLI directly. I have done this, but I believe they will want you todeclare yourself as a business. Not a problem. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Ray Gould" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 5:59 PMSubject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Hi,Their email is: info@anglersworkshop.comRay----- Original Message ----- From: "nobler" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:10 AMSubject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone givemeaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand theyhave"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 1 22:33:47 2001 f224Xke19993 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Brian;The tapers are alive and well and living in Ron Kusse's desk. Mark Aaronerbought 1 of 3 beveller's that were in use when the Infernal Revenue forcedLeonard to close for back excize taxes owed, somewhere between then andnow,Brian McGrath wound up with one of them and the rights to the Leonardname.John Brian Creek wrote: My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS saleforcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Mar 1 23:07:22 2001 f2257Le21054 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Leonard went under for not paying excise.Joewww.geneseevalleyrods.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 23:16:10 2001 f225G9e21489; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:09:12 -0600 , "and Collecting" Subject: Re: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Thank you Gary !GMA from miangler@yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 23:56:12 2001 f225uCe22240 2001 21:56:13 PST Subject: Questions and more questions... Since I am still having problems with the archives, Iwill field the following. Winston Binney has offeredto set me up with a 60* point and I just want to saythanks! My next quandry is finding a 60* lathe toolto make my scraper from for making the wooden planingforms. I called around to about 6 places today andeither they didn't know what I was talking about orthey didn't carry them. I am starting to entertainthoughts of putting the unused Peerless Model 5 salmonreel that I own up for sale and just buying a set offorms from CO. Bootstrap or Lon Blauvelt! With thespare money I could get a Ryall and a few tools! Ifanyone has a planing form making scraper around that Icould borrow for a few weeks, I'd send it back! Theurgency comes in because I booked some time in awoodshop for March 10 and don't know when I'd be ableto get back in there if I had to re-schedule! The Enco base for the dial gauge looks like the ticket like to order it asap! Final question of the day: How suitable/durable is ahand rubbed tung oil finish, at least for the firstfew rods? I definitely prefer a dipped finish andwill eventually get there. I was just wondering... The more I think about it the more open I am toselling that Peerless, now that I know my future inrod making is a lot closer than I thought. $689original, got it last month, never used, would let itgo for $600... anyway, good night! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 00:10:52 2001 f226Aqe22752 Subject: Re:Questions and more questions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C0A250.8DFB1660 MikeYou could try going down to your local Lowes storeand they have triangular scraping blades in the paintscraper section. I'm not sure if they are 45 degreeblades or 60 deg. blades. But if they are 45 you could grindto a 60 point with a little effort. And they should cut wood nicely . =Just make sure when you grind the blade you put a relief grind on it = Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C0A250.8DFB1660 MikeYou could try going down to your local = storeand they have triangular scraping = paintscraper section. I'm not sure if they = degree you could grindto a 60 point with a little effort. And = cut wood nicely . Just make sure when you grind the blade you put a = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C0A250.8DFB1660-- from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Mar 2 00:11:50 2001 f226Bme22791 (63.228.45.71) Subject: Leonard 50 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A2AC.AEB44BE0 anyone have the Leonard 50 taper?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A2AC.AEB44BE0 anyone have the Leonard 50 =taper?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A2AC.AEB44BE0-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 01:18:52 2001 f227Ipe24013 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:18:48 -0800 Fri, 02 Mar 2001 07:18:48 GMT Subject: The New Leonard Rod Co. FILETIME=[067674C0:01C0A2E9] Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like they should be? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials orbody of work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name does not make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of a Dickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had changed their names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if given the rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production with quality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics once again.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in the wrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Mar 2 01:22:14 2001 f227MDe24191; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:22:13 +0000 and Collecting Subject: Re: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Wowwwwwww,thanks,very,very much...........Paul Gary wrote: Here are a few spinning rod tapers for all of you taper junkies. I happento have some nice Young rods that I've measured and miked and for thetimeand effort I certainly hope that someone will take it upon himself to make aSpinmaster for me Just e-mail it to me when it's finished and I'll give youa full report on how it fishes. come Seemshe liked to fly fish Anyway: Spinmaster, 7'2", 3.35oz., lightly flamed, gold spiral wraps, 12 1/8"sliding ring handle, stepped 13/64 ferrule, semi-parabolic action. Loadsright through the handle into your arm. I haven't checked the taperagainsta Para 13, but the rod also throws a nice 5wt.Guide spacing from tip: 5 *, 12 1/8, 19 *, 28 5/8, 37 *; 51 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0825 - .09110 - .10615 - .12620 - .14325 - .15730 - .17635 - .19240 - .207ferrule46 - .20850 - .21155 - .21660 - .22665 - .24670 - .25574 - .259 "Spin-Caster", 6'3", 3.00oz., medium flamed, made for Lewis Pyle in Apr'53,black wraps, 10 *" sliding ring handle, 16/64 Super Z ferrule.Guide spacing from tip: 6 3/16, 13 15/16, 24 5/16, 35 1/8; 46 5/8(butt)Taper:0 - .0965 - .09810 - .11515 - .14220 - .15825 - .17430 - .19135 - .219ferrule40 - .216 (yes, I double checked the 35" and 40" measurements)45 - .22450 - .24155 - .25060 - .26664 - .274 "Special", 6'4", 3.40oz., 1955, lightly flamed, 17/64 ferrule, 8 *" slidingring handleGuide spacing from tip: 7 7/16, 16 5/16, 25 5/8, 35 5/16; 49 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0985 - .10110 - .12215 - .14820 - .15824 - .17030 - .19435 - .224ferrule41 - .22645 - .23850 - .24055 - .25760 - .26865 - .285 "Experimental Steelhead Baitcaster", 8'9", 20/64 ferrule, 8 1/4oz., Dec1948, darker cane, lightly flamed. This rod was owned by a friend of PaulYoung's in Florida (Col. O'Connell) who fished the Keys with Young. The tipis 54 *" and is ostensibly made from the tip section of the fabled andmysterious Parabolic 20. The handle is a fixed seat 15 *", crimson wrapsonfoul-proof stainless steel guides. The rod does have a semi-parabolicaction loading right down into the handle and will cast about as far as youcan see.Guide spacing from tip: 6 5/8, 14 5/16, 24 3/8, 36 *, 49 5/16; 59 5/8,72 *(butt)Taper:0 - .1325 - .14010 - .15815 - .18820 - .21425 - .23230 - .24535 - .26040 - .26845 - .27650 - .29852.5 - .306ferrule57 - .32060 - .32565 - .33670 - .34275 - .36380 - .38085 - .40388.5 - .424 from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Mar 2 02:01:13 2001 f2281Ce24834 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:01:07 -0800 Subject: Earthquake Posts This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0A2AB.F70B63C0 I would like to thank all of you that sent messages, on and off list.Your thoughtfulness was very much appreciated. You are a great bunch ofpeople. Best regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0A2AB.F70B63C0 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010302T080143ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0A2AB.F70B63C0-- from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri Mar 2 02:16:17 2001 f228GGe25220 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:38:10 +0100 Subject: Re: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Hi Gary, thanks a lot for the spinning tapers. They are just what I was lookingfor, since I'm fixing to build two spinning rods for birthday presents. Regards and thanks again Ralf from Germany Gary schrieb: Here are a few spinning rod tapers for all of you taper junkies. I happento have some nice Young rods that I've measured and miked and for thetimeand effort I certainly hope that someone will take it upon himself to make aSpinmaster for me Just e-mail it to me when it's finished and I'll give youa full report on how it fishes. come Seemshe liked to fly fish Anyway: Spinmaster, 7'2", 3.35oz., lightly flamed, gold spiral wraps, 12 1/8"sliding ring handle, stepped 13/64 ferrule, semi-parabolic action. Loadsright through the handle into your arm. I haven't checked the taperagainsta Para 13, but the rod also throws a nice 5wt.Guide spacing from tip: 5 *, 12 1/8, 19 *, 28 5/8, 37 *; 51 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0825 - .09110 - .10615 - .12620 - .14325 - .15730 - .17635 - .19240 - .207ferrule46 - .20850 - .21155 - .21660 - .22665 - .24670 - .25574 - .259 "Spin-Caster", 6'3", 3.00oz., medium flamed, made for Lewis Pyle in Apr'53,black wraps, 10 *" sliding ring handle, 16/64 Super Z ferrule.Guide spacing from tip: 6 3/16, 13 15/16, 24 5/16, 35 1/8; 46 5/8(butt)Taper:0 - .0965 - .09810 - .11515 - .14220 - .15825 - .17430 - .19135 - .219ferrule40 - .216 (yes, I double checked the 35" and 40" measurements)45 - .22450 - .24155 - .25060 - .26664 - .274 "Special", 6'4", 3.40oz., 1955, lightly flamed, 17/64 ferrule, 8 *" slidingring handleGuide spacing from tip: 7 7/16, 16 5/16, 25 5/8, 35 5/16; 49 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0985 - .10110 - .12215 - .14820 - .15824 - .17030 - .19435 - .224ferrule41 - .22645 - .23850 - .24055 - .25760 - .26865 - .285 "Experimental Steelhead Baitcaster", 8'9", 20/64 ferrule, 8 1/4oz., Dec1948, darker cane, lightly flamed. This rod was owned by a friend of PaulYoung's in Florida (Col. O'Connell) who fished the Keys with Young. The tipis 54 *" and is ostensibly made from the tip section of the fabled andmysterious Parabolic 20. The handle is a fixed seat 15 *", crimson wrapsonfoul-proof stainless steel guides. The rod does have a semi-parabolicaction loading right down into the handle and will cast about as far as youcan see.Guide spacing from tip: 6 5/8, 14 5/16, 24 3/8, 36 *, 49 5/16; 59 5/8,72 *(butt)Taper:0 - .1325 - .14010 - .15815 - .18820 - .21425 - .23230 - .24535 - .26040 - .26845 - .27650 - .29852.5 - .306ferrule57 - .32060 - .32565 - .33670 - .34275 - .36380 - .38085 - .40388.5 - .424 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 2 04:42:26 2001 f22AgPe26704 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I don't see much of what you mention here but I read and detect it a lot incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "name"? I'm not *really*asking because I think I know but it really makes you wonder doesn't it? Tony At 07:18 AM 3/2/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote:Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like they should be? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials orbody of work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name doesnot make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of a Dickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had changed their names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if given the rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production with quality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics once again.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in the wrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from stpete@netten.net Fri Mar 2 05:08:29 2001 f22B8Se27085 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:12:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Questions and more questions... Mike, The 60* lathe tool is a standard threading tool. If there is a machinetool supply house in your area you should be able to find it. Get aready made carbide tipped tool. The tools are labeled by shape and thethreading tool will be an 'E' tool with the second number referring tothe size or thickness of the square of metal it is made of. You'llwant a 1/2" or larger tool. Enco will have them and you can order oneor two when you get your indicator base. The chinese made carbidetipped lathe tools are not expensive at around $4.00 each. Enco, J&LIndustrial, MSC, K&B are all suppliers which will carry the tools youneed. They get orders out same day usually. If you still cannot findone, let me know later today and I will put one in the mail for you. Rick C. from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 2 05:48:23 2001 f22BmMe27731 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co from what I understand, The William Mills & Son name was purchaced in1971 by a guy named Bud Frasca. He owned a fly shop and commisioned TomDorsey later of T&T fame to make some cane rods to sell out of the shopwith the Mills name. BTW , by coincedence I at one time found myself inan Email conversation with the same Bud Frasca who offered me a Mills &Son Deluxe built by Tom Dorsey. I thought the price tag of $3000 a bitmuch (about $1500 to much). Marty My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS saleforcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 2 05:54:53 2001 f22Bsre27888 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co I also heard that at the Leonard auction (forced by the IRS) the IRSguys not knowing anything about fishing tackle grouped the rod sectionsin lots of mismatched sections. So one bidder bought butts , mids andtips that matched another bidders butts, mids and tips. How I wish I wasthere. Marty Leonard went under for not paying excise.Joewww.geneseevalleyrods.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Mar 2 06:27:47 2001 f22CRje28460 f22CRa020066; Subject: sharpening This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0A370.4B5E26A0 Jim Be very, very wary of him who says" there is no room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of room for argument. And I know several people who make really fine handmade furniture, and =I can tell you that their planes do not cut as well as mine. If you are =going to fall into this logical fallacy of "ask someone who knows", at =least ask someone who makes fine bamboo rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them probably use micro-bevels; but you =must read my advice with the"time" thing firmly in mind - note that both =Taylor and John Channer tonight say how time is of the essence. In my = But I have to agree with Taylor wholeheartedly about the quality and =care in adjusting you equipment. It will, as he says, pay you back =multi-fold. We ARE trying to be helpful! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0A370.4B5E26A0 Jim Be very, very wary of him who says" = room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of = argument. make = as well as mine. If you are going to fall into this logical fallacy of = rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them = micro-bevels; but you must read my advice with the"time" thing firmly in = note that both Taylor and John Channer tonight say how time is of the = But I have to agree with Taylor = about the quality and care in adjusting you equipment. It will, as he = you back multi-fold. We ARE trying to be =helpful! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0A370.4B5E26A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 2 06:35:14 2001 f22CZEe28700 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 06:28:12 -0600 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I really agree Al, as my early years of fishing were through the words ofJohn Alden Knight, Ray Bergman, and the like. Down here in So. Texas, we'llalways be bass fisher persons, and for the life of me, I'd still like to tryone of Knights 10.5' bugging rods. I was just lucky to find PHY at 18 !GMA from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Mar 2 06:54:55 2001 f22Csse29165 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. Tony, I guess that for the most part you are correct in implying that people buya name to make up for lack of experience and reputation. I do believe thatthere are some exceptions. One example is Mike Sinclair who has bought theDivine name and Trade Marks and hopes to begin reproducing Divine Rods.Clearly Divine does not have the panache of Payne or Dickerson but the fewof us who collect them, do love them! Mike would like there to be morebelievers out there. I just hope that he can do this and break even. -Doug At 06:43 PM 3/2/01 +0800, Tony Young wrote:I don't see much of what you mention here but I read and detect it a lot incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "name"? I'm not*really*asking because I think I know but it really makes you wonder doesn't it? Tony At 07:18 AM 3/2/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote:Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rodcompanies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like theyshould be? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials orbody of work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name doesnot make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of a Dickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had changed their names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if given the rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production with quality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics once again.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in the wrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from GriffinJohn@msn.com Fri Mar 2 07:45:53 2001 f22Djqe29969 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:45:48 -0800 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. =_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620" FILETIME=[16B4B870:01C0A31F] ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620 Unfortunately, the ultimate outcome may simply be a devaluation of ALL Le=onard rods. Look at the track record of tackle companies that have been s= Mo bettah' if the new Leonard outfit focuses on the high end niche - the =quality of the product will then ultimately prevail. Witness the semi ann=ual rebirth of the "new" Indian Motorcycle Company. John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I don't see much of what you mention here but I read and detect it a lot =incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "name"? I'm not *reall=y*asking because I think I know but it really makes you wonder doesn't it? Tony At 07:18 AM 3/2/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote:Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod compa=niesseem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive orapparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like they sho=uldbe? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials or =bodyof work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name does n=otmake a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of=aDickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had change=dtheir names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if gi=venthe rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production withquality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics onceagain.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their =own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in t=hewrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com /************************************************************************=*/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /************************************************************************=*/Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620 Unfortunately,=the ultimate outcome may simply be a devaluation of ALL Leonard rods. Lo=ok at the track record of tackle companies that have been sold in name on=ly to the off shore mass production houses. Mo bettah' if the=new Leonard outfit focuses on the high end niche - the quality of the pr=oduct will then ultimately prevail. Witness the semi annual rebirth of th= John ----- Original Message ----- = Co. =I don't see much of what you mention here but I read andd=etect it a lot incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "=name"? I'm not *really*asking because I think I know but it really ma=kes you wonder doesn't it?TonyAt 07:18 AM3/2/01 +000= = see= work=to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name doesnot&g=t;make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door o= Ren= ;ideas and different goals, turnind out the 2-4 thousand that most of the= to= download of MSN=Explorer at *************************************************/AVYoungVis=it my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlThe node=has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effortwasted.Thi=s strip is nowtrash./*******************************************=******************************/Get your FREE download of MSNExplo=rer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620-- from Canerods@aol.com Fri Mar 2 08:34:07 2001 f22EY6e01881 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. --part1_a.98ab9fc.27d1094d_boundary In a message dated 3/1/01 11:19:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like theyshould AJ, Are you taking steps to prevent the resurgence of the AJ Thramer Rod Co.in the year 2099? Don B. --part1_a.98ab9fc.27d1094d_boundary In a message dated3/1/01 11:19:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like theyshould be? AJ, Are you taking steps to prevent the resurgence of the AJ Thramer RodCo. in the year 2099? Don B. --part1_a.98ab9fc.27d1094d_boundary-- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Mar 2 09:11:29 2001 f22FBSe03608 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co If you guys want to see some of this history, go take a look at TheBamboo Timeline at The Bamboo Fly Rod web site(http://www.thebambooflyrod.com/) A lot of this information isavailable there. Brian Creek wrote: My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS saleforcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 09:25:09 2001 f22FP8e04780 2001 07:25:10 PST Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co well! that's something for my subscription money. --- Todd Talsma wrote:If you guys want to see some of this history, gotake a look at TheBamboo Timeline at The Bamboo Fly Rod web site(http://www.thebambooflyrod.com/) A lot of thisinformation isavailable there. Brian Creek wrote: My understanding is that they went belly up in the'70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stashof cane at an IRS sale forcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taper patternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone isselling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and adifferent beveler. Brian -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Mar 2 09:25:33 2001 f22FPWe04844 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: sharpening This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A32D.55DF74DC I took Taylor's comments for exactly what they were worth. An expressionofa valid opinion about the utility of microbevels, unsupported by anyargument, and accompanied by an unsupportable statement that there wasnoroom for debate. I appreciate his taking the time to respond, but wish hewould have tried to explain more and exhort less. I visit bulletin boardsoccupied by people who make fine furniture for a living. And among thatgroup the "microbevel debate" rages on. I've reached my own conclusions onthe issue as it relates to my woodworking tools. That is why I posted tothe rodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as the issue relates torodmaking. People constantly claim the microbevel saves time in honing. But some ofthe woodworkers who don't microibevel say that they stopped doing soprecisely because they hone their irons so often. I think the reasoning isthat a micro bevel saves time for a few honings, but after that you need toregrind the main bevel which is time consuming. If you sharpen often, thenyou will be spending more time regrinding the main bevel than if you simplyhoned the main bevel every time you honed. I believe the second argument isthat if you use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use a honing guide, whilewithout the microbevel you can hone freehand (if you are reasonablyskilled). Honing freehand saves the time spent setting up the honing guide,and, if you use waterstones, there is some belief that the honing guidesthat ride on the stone will dish it out sooner. I don't know the answers asthey apply in rodmaking, that's why I asked. -----Original Message----- Subject: sharpening Jim Be very, very wary of him who says" there is no room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of room for argument. And I know several people who make really fine handmade furniture, and Ican tell you that their planes do not cut as well as mine. If you are goingto fall into this logical fallacy of "ask someone who knows", at least asksomeone who makes fine bamboo rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them probably use micro-bevels; but you mustread my advice with the"time" thing firmly in mind - note that both Taylorand John Channer tonight say how time is of the essence. In my case, it'snot, and I think single bevels are tidier. But I have to agree with Taylor wholeheartedly about the quality and care inadjusting you equipment. It will, as he says, pay you back multi-fold. We ARE trying to be helpful! Peter ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A32D.55DF74DC I took of a valid opinion about the utility of microbevels, unsupported by there was wish among why I posted to the rodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as the issue relates to rodmaking. People woodworkers who don't microibevel say that they stopped doing so precisely micro bevel saves time for a few honings, but after that you need to regrindthe be spending more time regrinding the main bevel than if you simply honed themain you use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use a honing guide, while without the Honing freehand saves the time spent setting up the honing guide, and, if you use waterstones, there is some belief that the honing guides that ride on thestone rodmaking, that's why I asked. -----Original Message-----From: Peter McKean 02, 2001 Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:sharpeningJim Be very, very wary of him who says" thereis no room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of room argument. really not cut as well as mine. If you are going to fall into this logical fallacy of bamboo rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them probablyuse micro-bevels; but you must read my advice with the"time" thing firmly inmind - note that both Taylor and John Channer tonight say how time is of the But I have to agree with Taylorwholeheartedly about the quality and care in adjusting you equipment. It will, as he says, pay you back multi-fold. We ARE trying to be helpful! Peter ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A32D.55DF74DC-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 2 09:31:24 2001 f22FVNe05350 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:31:13 -0800 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. Doug,Any report on how Mike Sinclair is doing, physically? His website mentionsthat he has been having some serious health difficulties... Harry "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: I do believe thatthere are some exceptions. One example is Mike Sinclair who has boughttheDivine name and Trade Marks and hopes to begin reproducing Divine Rods. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri Mar 2 10:03:17 2001 f22G3Ge06852 fwd03.sul.t-online.com Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:24:49 +0100 Subject: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Hi Gary, just one question about the measurement of the spinning rod tapers: Arethey measured over varnish - I guess so. Am I right? Regards Ralf from Germany from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 2 10:08:24 2001 f22G8Ne07142 Subject: RE: sharpening "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" There was a time when I had to put a micro bevel on all my hand tools such asplane irons and chisels because the leading hand was adamant a micro bevelsaved sharpening time and time being money not having a micro bevel wastantamount to steeling from the company. The leading hand was a grizzledoldScot by the name of Kieth who was said to have been in the French ForeignLegion then a mercenary and wore a beanie (wool cap) all year round which isthe height of stupidity if you happen to live in Brisbane as he does.Would you argue with such a bloke?After I served my time with Keith and was able to sharpen my edges as Iliked Istopped using micro bevels because as James mentions doing so does tend tomeanyou need to use a honing guide which I hate using. I prefer to using a large diameter grinding wheel grind a slight hollow in thecutting face which is unavoidable and leave this hollow as long as I can.Doingthis serves two purposes. Firstly there is less metal to grind on the wetstonebecause you only have the very edge and the heel of the edge to grind.Secondlythe hollow acts as a honing guide because you can easily see if the edge hasbeen ground properly by looking at the state of the hollow. Once the hollowdisappears I re grind. If I'm feeling a bit lazy I'll just touch up the edgeusing a micro bevel and get a little more out of the iron before re grinding. wheelwhich puts a really keen edge on cutting blades. I don't know if James Krenov is still held in high regard in the fine cabinetmaking scene but just consulting my copy of "The Fine Art Of Cabinet Making"Isee he doesn't advocate micro bevels by the omission of mentioning thetechnique though he does advocate the method of grinding a hollow. Maybemicrobevels weren't being used much in the 70's when the book was published?It must be 20 years since opening that book last and the price tag of $9.95confirms its vintage so I can't remember if I read about this before orafter Istarted hollow grinding but IMHO it's a better way to go than micro bevelsbothcutting wise and time. Obviously there are fans on both sides which indicatesneither one really is better in the long run. It's very easy to field test andsee which you prefer. Tony At 08:27 AM 3/2/01 -0700, James Piotrowski wrote: I took Taylor's comments for exactly what they were worth. Anexpression ofa valid opinion about the utility of microbevels, unsupported by anyargument, and accompanied by an unsupportable statement that there wasnoroom for debate. I appreciate his taking the time to respond, but wish hewould have tried to explain more and exhort less. I visit bulletin boardsoccupied by people who make fine furniture for a living. And among thatgroup the "microbevel debate" rages on. I've reached my own conclusionsonthe issue as it relates to my woodworking tools. That is why I posted totherodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as the issue relates torodmaking. People constantly claim the microbevel saves time in honing. But some ofthewoodworkers who don't microibevel say that they stopped doing sopreciselybecause they hone their irons so often. I think the reasoning is that amicro bevel saves time for a few honings, but after that you need toregrindthe main bevel which is time consuming. If you sharpen often, then you willbe spending more time regrinding the main bevel than if you simply honedthemain bevel every time you honed. I believe the second argument is that ifyou use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use a honing guide, while withoutthemicrobevel you can hone freehand (if you are reasonably skilled). Honingfreehand saves the time spent setting up the honing guide, and, if you usewaterstones, there is some belief that the honing guides that ride on thestone will dish it out sooner. I don't know the answers as they apply inrodmaking, that's why I asked. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Mar 2 10:36:23 2001 f22GaMe08469 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 08:36:04 -0800 Subject: Leonard 37 1/2 ACM f22GaMe08470 Shawn, Here is an ACM taper I measured a couple years ago. It is a 6 1/2' 2 pc. I'lllist the three measurements, and both tips. I've not been able to make therod because quite simply the tip dimensions are too tiny for my forms. These measurements were taken over varnish which I estimated at .004"total so I would take .002" off of each strip dimension. Chris 1" .042,.043,.044 .042,.043,.0465" .055,.057,.058 .053,.054,.05510" .070,.071,guide .071,.073,guide15" .088,.088,.089 .086,.088,.09020" .107,.107,.108 .101,.101,.10125" .114,.114,.116 .110,.110,.11230" .129,.131,.132 .123,.124,.12435" .134,.136,.136 .132,.133,.13541" .149,.149,.149 45" .163,.163,.16350" .178,.179,.18155" .198,.198,.19960" .215,.218,.21965" .224,.228,.22868" .241,.244,.244 Swell begins70" about .310 (hookkeeper wrap here) from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 10:43:13 2001 f22GhCe08883 2001 08:43:14 PST Subject: RE: sharpening tony, your approach describes mine as well as any. timothy --- Tony Young wrote:There was a time when I had to put a micro bevel onall my hand tools such asplane irons and chisels because the leading hand wasadamant a micro bevelsaved sharpening time and time being money nothaving a micro bevel wastantamount to steeling from the company. The leadinghand was a grizzled oldScot by the name of Kieth who was said to have beenin the French ForeignLegion then a mercenary and wore a beanie (wool cap)all year round which isthe height of stupidity if you happen to live inBrisbane as he does.Would you argue with such a bloke?After I served my time with Keith and was able tosharpen my edges as Iliked Istopped using micro bevels because as James mentionsdoing so does tend tomeanyou need to use a honing guide which I hate using. I prefer to using a large diameter grinding wheelgrind a slight hollow in thecutting face which is unavoidable and leave thishollow as long as I can.Doingthis serves two purposes. Firstly there is lessmetal to grind on the wetstonebecause you only have the very edge and the heel ofthe edge to grind.Secondlythe hollow acts as a honing guide because you caneasily see if the edge hasbeen ground properly by looking at the state of thehollow. Once the hollowdisappears I re grind. If I'm feeling a bit lazyI'll just touch up the edgeusing a micro bevel and get a little more out of theiron before re grinding. diamond past on a leatherwheelwhich puts a really keen edge on cutting blades. I don't know if James Krenov is still held in highregard in the fine cabinetmaking scene but just consulting my copy of "TheFine Art Of Cabinet Making" Isee he doesn't advocate micro bevels by the omissionof mentioning thetechnique though he does advocate the method ofgrinding a hollow. Maybe microbevels weren't being used much in the 70's when thebook was published?It must be 20 years since opening that book last andthe price tag of $9.95confirms its vintage so I can't remember if I readabout this before orafter Istarted hollow grinding but IMHO it's a better wayto go than micro bevelsbothcutting wise and time. Obviously there are fans onboth sides which indicatesneither one really is better in the long run. It'svery easy to field test andsee which you prefer. Tony At 08:27 AM 3/2/01 -0700, James Piotrowski wrote: I took Taylor's comments for exactly what theywere worth. An expression ofa valid opinion about the utility of microbevels,unsupported by anyargument, and accompanied by an unsupportablestatement that there was noroom for debate. I appreciate his taking the timeto respond, but wish hewould have tried to explain more and exhort less. I visit bulletin boardsoccupied by people who make fine furniture for aliving. And among thatgroup the "microbevel debate" rages on. I'vereached my own conclusions onthe issue as it relates to my woodworking tools. That is why I posted totherodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as theissue relates torodmaking. People constantly claim the microbevel saves timein honing. But some ofthewoodworkers who don't microibevel say that theystopped doing so preciselybecause they hone their irons so often. I thinkthe reasoning is that amicro bevel saves time for a few honings, butafter that you need to regrindthe main bevel which is time consuming. If yousharpen often, then you willbe spending more time regrinding the main bevelthan if you simply honed themain bevel every time you honed. I believe thesecond argument is that ifyou use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use ahoning guide, while withoutthemicrobevel you can hone freehand (if you arereasonably skilled). Honingfreehand saves the time spent setting up thehoning guide, and, if you usewaterstones, there is some belief that the honingguides that ride on thestone will dish it out sooner. I don't know theanswers as they apply inrodmaking, that's why I asked. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Fri Mar 2 10:56:40 2001 f22Gude09430 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co --part1_52.7f26a50.27d12abb_boundary In a message dated 3/2/01 7:25:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: That chart will be in the next BFR issue. Written tongue in cheek. Don Burns --part1_52.7f26a50.27d12abb_boundary In a message dated3/2/01 7:25:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: well! that'ssomething for my subscription money. That chart will be in the next BFR issue. Written tongue in cheek. Don Burns --part1_52.7f26a50.27d12abb_boundary-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 11:02:13 2001 f22H2Ce09843 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0A2AB.AA4611C0 I think I wouldn't mind being associated with a projectto revitalize a new rod. But It would have to be like this NEW Leonard rod MADE BY PARTICULAR MAKERIN THE TRADITION OF H.L. LEONARDBut I would NEVER want to build a rod andcall it a Leonard as if to say, we were one in the same.I want my rods to be valued some day( Not just for themoney's sake either) and when that day comes(if it comesat all) I want my name on those rods. I would probably not buy a name. = think they should be absolutely honest about the origins ofthe rod and it's maker. That was one of the first things I see if this is the case.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0A2AB.AA4611C0 I think I wouldn't mind being = projectto revitalize a new rod. But It would = like thisas an example: Emphasizing the words NEW Leonard rod MADE BY MAKER OF = LEONARD = andcall it a Leonard as if to say, we were = same.I want my rods to be valued some day(= themoney's sake either) and when that day= comesat all) I want my name on those rods. I= probably not buy a name. For those who do I think that's OK, but =Ithink they should be absolutely honest= origins ofthe rod and it's maker. That was one of= things Ilearned. I am planning to look over the = site to see if this is the case.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0A2AB.AA4611C0-- from bluemoon@kitemail.com Fri Mar 2 11:02:24 2001 f22H2Me09874 Subject: Norman Agutters blanks ? Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks sounds too lowto be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm _____________________________________________________________KiteLife.com, The Internet Magazinehttp://www.kitelife.com from parataper@hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 11:19:58 2001 f22HJme10860 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:19:44 -0800 HTTP; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:19:44 GMT Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co FILETIME=[F9B444C0:01C0A33C] I spoke to Brian McGrath who owns HLL name. He seems like a nice guy with good knowledge of the company, and rods in general. Although I have not seen one, Brian tells me that HLL is producing very limited number (20)of high quality rods a year, more for the tradition of the name than for any profit. This doesn't sound like a profit driven venture to me. MP From: Jan Nystråm CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard CoDate: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 21:51:33 +0100 Hi Darrel, I suppose you mean the H.L. Leonard Co i Texas? There is a website offering"original" Leonard rods. I do not know if this person bought the Leonardcompany or not but it really seems that way when reading on the website. Hereis the link to see for yourself.http://www.hlleonard.com/I tried to email this company a year ago and did not receive any answerthough. Thanks,Jan Nystrom Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 11:50:11 2001 f22HoAe12367 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A2B2.5FD13B40 Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods Devine (I think?) becausehe has the Devine trade name. I don't think he is calling them Fred =Devine rods. To me there is a difference.One implying that Devine has a new owner, the other that Fred Divine has =risen from the grave to make rods again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonard site I seen :(H.L. Leonard) to me this is miss leading.If my daughter (someday after my death) starts makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I think. But not toput Anthony Miller on the rods but her name instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, but I think it is one wayof recognizing the original maker.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A2B2.5FD13B40 Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods = he has the Devine trade name. I don't = difference.One implying that Devine has a new = again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonardsite = : leading.If my daughter (someday after mydeath) = makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I = put Anthony Miller on the rods but her = instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, = it is one wayof recognizing the original =maker.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A2B2.5FD13B40-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Mar 2 11:53:00 2001 f22Hqxe12581 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:52:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? Agutters USED to have a terrible name for quality,delivery after salesservice etc etcThey were then taken over by Norman and I am led to believe they havemade many improvements and are now a pleasure to deal with.One really competitive,high quality service with an enviable reputation former Partridge employee ( Colin Young_)and are available eitherimpregnated or 'plain'.You could dop a lot worse than try this firm !Their prices are very very good and their blanks are used by many of theUK rod and US 'assembly'companies.No financial interest,,,,,blah,blah........Paul Ken McNeill wrote: Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks sounds toolow to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm _____________________________________________________________KiteLife.com, The Internet Magazinehttp://www.kitelife.com from parataper@hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 12:17:38 2001 f22IHbe13465 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:17:33 -0800 HTTP; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 18:17:33 GMT Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. FILETIME=[0D577440:01C0A345] When did Hirum Leonard die? I don't know, but I would guess the early 1900's. Does this make every Leonard rod since then a fake? When Tom Maxwell was there, were the rods of a lower quality than when HL built them himself? The company was still not owned by the founder at that time. A name does mean a lot, but a Ford can still be a Ford, even if GM owns it. MP From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co.Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:47:36 -0500 Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods Devine (I think?) becausehe has the Devine trade name. I don't think he is calling them Fred Devine rods. To me there is a difference.One implying that Devine has a new owner, the other that Fred Divine has risen from the grave to make rods again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonard site I seen :(H.L. Leonard) to me this is miss leading.If my daughter (someday after my death) starts makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I think. But not toput Anthony Miller on the rods but her name instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, but I think it is one wayof recognizing the original maker.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 12:40:38 2001 f22Iebe14340 Subject: Re:New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0A2B9.6BC9A340 I think your right MarkIt doesn't make it a fake.But be honest hereIf you had your choice of owning one by Hirumor one made by Tom which one would you pick?I know what my honest decision would be.And let me tell you that my decision might just be a little money driven =LOLBest Regards (all in fun)Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0A2B9.6BC9A340 I think your right MarkIt doesn't make it afake.But be honest hereIf you had your choice of owning one by= Hirumor one made by Tom which one would pick?I know what my honest decision be. Best Regards (all infun)Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0A2B9.6BC9A340-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 12:52:23 2001 f22IqNe14779 Subject: Re:New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A2BB.103581A0 One more thing .Think about this for a second.If you made rods for me ,under my name, howdo you think it might go. Would you have total creative freedomor do you think maybe I would insist on my standards?I have worked for allot of people in my life and rarelyhave they let me do it my way. So if Tom made rods forLeonard, I'm sure that there was the Leonard influence.Unlike if you or I made Leonard rods today the only influencewe have is from books and other modern makers.Just food for thought.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A2BB.103581A0 One more thing .Think about this for a =second.If you made rods for me ,under myname, = howdo you think it might go. Would you = creative freedomor do you think maybe I would insist on= standards?I have worked for allot of people in my = rarelyhave they let me do it my way. So if = forLeonard, I'm sure that there was the = influence.Unlike if you or I made Leonard rods = influencewe have is from books and other makers.Just food for thought.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A2BB.103581A0-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 13:05:09 2001 f22J53e15460 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0A2BC.D59902E0 Before it starts LOLI didn't mean to imply that anyone would want to work for me.LOLor want to make my rods LOLTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0A2BC.D59902E0 Before it starts LOLI didn't mean to imply that anyone = or want to make my rods =LOLTonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0A2BC.D59902E0-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Mar 2 13:21:44 2001 f22JLhe16315 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:21:39 -0800 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. So what is in a name? H. L. Leonard on a fly rod is a company name, abrand if you will. It does not mean ol' Hiram made it himself. History baresout the fact Leonard employed many talented craftsmen. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:47 PMSubject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods Devine (I think?) becausehe has the Devine trade name. I don't think he is calling them Fred Devinerods. To me there is a difference.One implying that Devine has a new owner, the other that Fred Divine hasrisen from the grave to make rods again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonard site I seen :(H.L. Leonard) to me this is miss leading.If my daughter (someday after my death) starts makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I think. But not toput Anthony Miller on the rods but her name instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, but I think it is one wayof recognizing the original maker.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 2 13:39:58 2001 f22Jdve17110 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:31:29 -0600 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I looked at the site, and as far as i can see it's all plastic ! THAT'S NOT LEONARD !GMA from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 13:46:57 2001 f22Jkue17637 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0A2C2.AEE0D820 RichardOK Lets take an Orvis rod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan worth more thanthe ones that are not? If you are trying to convince me that maker and =name mean nothing. Than why do we heredrop more names than they do in Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makers went on to form there own company's =of which there rods are not valued as high. Leonard that the rod had the Leonard name on it? Of course it is and =that is why a person would buy a name. Just because the market makes =anything with the name Leonardon it valuable, doesn't mean it is. I'm sure you have heard the term =(forced collectable) and if all rods are created equally than why do we =take the time to discuss how one rod casts better than another. I'm not =saying that the older masters made better rods(maybe they did, maybe =they didn't) but we tend to think one made by Leonard himself is more =valuable than not. Once again best regards and food for thought. (all in =fun)Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0A2C2.AEE0D820 RichardOK Lets take an Orvisrod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan= thanthe ones that are not? If you are = convince me that maker and name mean nothing. Than why do we =here Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makerswent = there own company's of which there rods are not valued as =high.Why is that? Could it be that when they= Leonard that the rod had the Leonard = market makes anything with the name Leonard mean = sure you have heard the term (forced collectable) and if all rods are = equally than why do we take the time to discuss how one rod casts better = another. I'm not saying that the older masters made better rods(maybe = maybe they didn't) but we tend to think one made by Leonard himself is = valuable than not. Once again best regards and food for thought. (all in = fun)Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0A2C2.AEE0D820-- from dryfly@erols.com Fri Mar 2 13:47:21 2001 f22JlLe17722 ([207.172.206.201] helo=erols.com) Subject: New Leonard Rod Company I think we've kicked this topic around long enough. Hitting the deletekey so often is starting to hurt my fingers more than holding stripswhile planing. from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 13:59:02 2001 f22Jx2e18483 Subject: Talking rodmaking This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0A2C4.5F7A1560 I wanted to talk rodmaking 2 days ago LOL discussion. Just my luck as soon as I get interestedin it, it's gonna end LOL unlike the wandering tool threadabout a month ago LOL ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0A2C4.5F7A1560 I wanted to talk rodmaking 2 days LOLBut I got bored and thought I would get= discussion. Just my luck as soon as I = interested wandering tool threadabout a month ago LOLTony = ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0A2C4.5F7A1560-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 14:52:27 2001 f22KqRe21129 Subject: Re: Talking rodmaking This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A2CB.D4261420 Thanks John!Your right it is important matter.Just the other day I seen a guy on ebay sellinga Leonard reel seat.(it looked new and he sold it as new)My point is: in the wrong hands someone could put thaton some clunker and sell it to some one who doesn't know any better. ( =BTW I was slightly ripped off when I got into this some years ago) so I =know how it feels.) I'm sure no reputable maker would do this , but this =is an imperfect world and there are people who would. I would have used =the part as a replacement on a Leonard restoration. And let the buyer =know it was a replacement part.But when your talkinga couple thousand for a rod ,someone is bound to take advantage of = Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A2CB.D4261420 Thanks John!Your right it is important =matter.Just the other day I seen a guy on ebay= sellinga Leonard reel seat.(it looked new and = as new)My point is: in the wrong hands someone= thaton some clunker and sell it to some one= know any better. ( BTW I was slightly ripped off when I got into this = ago) so I know how it feels.) I'm sure no reputable maker would do this = have = part as a replacement on a Leonard restoration. And let the buyer know = replacement part.But when your talkinga couple thousand for a rod ,someone is= would do that. TonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A2CB.D4261420-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 2 15:15:53 2001 f22LFqe21976 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0A31A.C418A300 Actually, from what I've read, Wes built few rods himself. At Orvis and atSouth Bend he was the production manager. Rods Wes Jordan actually builtwere Cross rods... Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:44 PM Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. RichardOK Lets take an Orvis rod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan worth more thanthe ones that are not? If you are trying to convince me that maker andname mean nothing. Than why do we heredrop more names than they do in Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makers went on to form there own company'sofwhich there rods are not valued as high.Why is that? Could it be that when they made rods forLeonard that the rod had the Leonard name on it? Of course it is and thatis why a person would buy a name. Just because the market makes anythingwith the name Leonardon it valuable, doesn't mean it is. I'm sure you have heard the term(forced collectable) and if all rods are created equally than why do we takethe time to discuss how one rod casts better than another. I'm not sayingthat the older masters made better rods(maybe they did, maybe they didn't)but we tend to think one made by Leonard himself is more valuable than not.Once again best regards and food for thought. (all in fun)Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0A31A.C418A300 Actually, from what I've read, Wes built few rods himself. At = at South Bend he was the production manager. Rods Wes Jordan actually = Cross rods... Darrellwww.vfish.net MillerSent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:44 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New Leonard Co.RichardOK Lets take an Orvis =rod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan= thanthe ones that are not? If you are = convince me that maker and name mean nothing. Than why do we =here Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makers = high.Why is that? Could it be that when = Leonard that the rod had the Leonard= the market makes anything with the name Leonard I'm sure you have heard the term (forced collectable) and if all rods = created equally than why do we take the time to discuss how one rod = better than another. I'm not saying that the older masters made better = rods(maybe they did, maybe they didn't) but we tend to think one made = Leonard himself is more valuable than not. Once again best regards and = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0A31A.C418A300-- from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Mar 2 15:58:44 2001 f22Lwhe23802 0500 Subject: Where to fish in theFlorida Keys Hi...I may be taking my nephews fishng in the keys (13 and 14 years old). Itwould be mid to late summer (ugh - hot!). Anyone know of any guides downthere for inshore fish (flats type). I can find stuff in magazines but wouldrather get a real recommendation. Thanks, Andy from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 16:14:43 2001 f22MEge24643 Subject: Re: Leonard rods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A2D7.4EC9F2E0 Hi BrianI had no intent to discredit any one. My apologiesif that is how it sounded.If you look at it from my side of the fence,its kind of a hard pill to =swallow because I'm a rodmaker trying to sell rods too.(just like you) =and when someone might pick your rod over mine I can except that in most =cases. But when they pick a new rod built by your company over my rod on =the basis of the Leonard name(well what can I say). I think it's a good = maybe you studied under these great makers and you might blow me away in=making rods. But when the buyer buys your rod or mine , I sure hope theyconsider my rods even though they don't say Leonard on them. I have =spent countless hours studying makers, And I too feel I offer quality. I =hope I have not made an enemy here.I would love to see your rods.And I have always talked up quality makers. And would have no problem in =complimenting your work also.Best regardsTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A2D7.4EC9F2E0 Hi BrianI had no intent to discredit any one. = apologiesif that is how itsounded. = fence,its kind of a hard pill to swallow because I'm a rodmaker trying = rods too.(just like you) and when someone might pick your rod over mine = except that in most cases. But when they pick a new rod built by your = over my rod on the basis of the Leonard name(well what can I say). I = a good idea to protect the name. Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous = maybe you studied under these great makers and you might blow me away in= theyconsider my rods even though theydon't = rods.And I have always talked up quality = also.Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A2D7.4EC9F2E0-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 2 16:25:17 2001 f22MPGe25241 Subject: Re: Hello there! Mike,I have some spare cane I could let you have to play around with. I am in So. Bend, IN if you are interested.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 2 17:22:21 2001 f22NMGe27065 Subject: Sanding blocks List,To all the guys who have recently ordered sanding blocks. I have been overwhelmed with the response for blocks. I have to make some new ones so please be patient. I ran out of initial supply and will be making more this week.Bret from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 2 18:54:45 2001 f230sie28821 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Leonard ACM tapers I am looking for information on the ACM tapers and the tapers themselves.I knowthat they were named after Arthur C. Mills and were designed to be fast dryflyaction rods. What I was wondering was what were the different sizes itcame in? Iknow there was a 37 and a 38, what other sizes/wts did it come in? They arehard tofind info on.Can anyone tell me about the appearance of the rods. Anyone who hascast one, canI have your opinion? I would love a picture if anyone has one.I have the 37 taper but would like some of the other tapers if anyone hasthem. Thanks, Shawn from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:12:06 2001 f231C1e29332 Subject: Re: Leonard 50 In a message dated 03/02/2001 1:14:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, dnorl@qwest.net writes: Hi Dave,I have a Leonard 50DF in my shop at the moment. I'm making two new tips for it. The blanks have been stripped. Here are the dimensions: 0- .0725- .09210- .10715- .12620- .14025- .15330- .16335- .17540- .19045- .21050- .22055- .23060- .24065- .25070- .28375- .29780- .30685- .31590- .32595- .32596- .325 I measured all three sides and then averaged themThere is no varnish on these blanks, so these are the true measurements. Hope this helps, Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Canerods@aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:16:50 2001 f231Goe29581 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,mail188938@pop.net --part1_87.794046c.27d19fd3_boundary In a message dated 3/2/01 10:18:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, parataper@hotmail.com writes: When did Hirum Leonard die? I don't know, but I would guess the early 1900's. Does this make every Leonard rod since then a fake? When Tom Maxwell was there, were the rods of a lower quality than when HL builtthem himself? The company was still not owned by the founder at that time. A name does mean a lot, but a Ford can still be a Ford, even if GM owns it. MP There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Fly rods rolled out 100% completed out of the Heddon plant. Want to compare prices between a Payne and a Heddon that differ only bythe characters written by the same person using the same pen on two rodshafts? Don Burns --part1_87.794046c.27d19fd3_boundary In a message dated3/2/01 10:18:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, parataper@hotmail.com writes: early Maxwell was there, were the rods of a lower quality than when HL builtthem name does mean a lot, but a Ford can still be a Ford, even if GM owns it. MP There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Fly rods rolled out100% completed out of the Heddon plant. Want to compare prices between a Payne and a Heddon that differ only characters written by the same person using the same pen on two rodshafts? Don Burns --part1_87.794046c.27d19fd3_boundary-- from beadman@mac.com Fri Mar 2 19:47:40 2001 f231lde00276 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? At 9:02 AM -0800 , 3/2/01, Ken McNeill wrote about Norman Aguttersblanks ?Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks sounds too low to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm On this site, they refer to "As rodmakers we have sought perfection in the peformance of a Split Bamboo Fly Rod (Split Cane or Built Cane)." I understand what "split cane" is, but what is "built cane"? Nodeless, maybe? Claude from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 2 20:19:39 2001 f232JYe01001 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Leonard ACM tapers Hi Shawn,I fished a 38 ACM almost exclusively for 3 years between 1973 and '76. It was one of the best rods I ever owned. I now fish a 38H quite a bitand love it. The 38H is a more versatile rod. When the 38ACM startedto loose it and that was about 45' the 38H was still doing very well. The "functional delicacy" of the 38ACM was unparalled. I hope I getthis point across It was strong enough to be more than a toy (36L) yetdelicate enough to make casting at 30' feet a true joy. Shawn, I'm notsure where you are from, but if you know any of the Eastern Rivers Ithink I can give you a feel for the rod. It was a disaster on theBeaverkill. With the big water and the wind at times, there were alwaysfish that you couldn't get to. It was maginal on the Battenkill. Anevening with sulfur spinners with no wind was a delight but a caddishatch in the middle of the day with a little wind and you were trying tooverpower the rod. A little smaller than the Battenkill and it was init's own. Absolutely perfect for the Broadhead in the Pocono's andperfect for the Willowemoc. Leave the wet flies in the box except forsofthackles, where it was wnoderful. A true "lady" in design. God, asmuch as I love my 38H, I do miss that rod. If you gave me a choicebetween the 38ACM, 38L, and 38H. I would have to pick the 38H becauseof it's versatility but if you asked me what is the best taper....Iwould say the 38ACM. You bring back allot of memmories Shawn. The lasttime I fished the rod was on the Blackberry River in Conn. On leavingthe stream the tip looked a little bent. Like a fool I grabed itbetween my fingers and "pop"...broke one of the tips. I was sodistraught that the freind I was fishing with drove 20 miles later inthe day to give me a gift of Ed Zern's "To Hell with Fishing".....Rich Shawn Pineo wrote: I am looking for information on the ACM tapers and the tapersthemselves. I knowthat they were named after Arthur C. Mills and were designed to be fastdry flyaction rods. What I was wondering was what were the different sizes itcame in? Iknow there was a 37 and a 38, what other sizes/wts did it come in? Theyare hard tofind info on.Can anyone tell me about the appearance of the rods. Anyone who hascast one, canI have your opinion? I would love a picture if anyone has one.I have the 37 taper but would like some of the other tapers if anyonehas them. Thanks, Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 2 20:39:22 2001 f232dLe01394 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:39:16 -0800 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Don,What's this about Paynes and Heddons? Don't rememberhearing that before. Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote: There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Flyrods rolled out 100%completed out of the Heddon plant. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 2 20:56:35 2001 f232uZe02026 Subject: Saw this on eBay Y'all,Bob Nunley will probably get mad at me for posting thishere, but I thought some of you might want to at least seethe pictures. Bob's cane ferruled two weight rod is forsale on eBay and you owe it to yourself to at least take alook. I've had a chance to play with this little rod andit's pretty doggone nice. I get no kickback on this, and Bob has no idea I'm doingit. So direct all your wrath at me. I can handle it.Here's the url:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1116481658 Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 2 21:10:18 2001 f233AIe02461 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Don,I don't think I ever heard that one before but it would not surprise me. After all they (Heddon) did make a lot of rods for PHY Rod Co. as well as others.. I would love to see proof of this as I find it very interesting.Bret from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 2 21:11:30 2001 f233BUe02618 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Saw this on eBay Harry, Neat! I wish it had a few closeups of the ferrule. Marty Y'all,Bob Nunley will probably get mad at me for posting thishere, but I thought some of you might want to at least seethe pictures. Bob's cane ferruled two weight rod is forsale on eBay and you owe it to yourself to at least take alook. I've had a chance to play with this little rod andit's pretty doggone nice. I get no kickback on this, and Bob has no idea I'm doingit. So direct all your wrath at me. I can handle it.Here's the url:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1116481658 Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from saweiss@flash.net Fri Mar 2 21:17:31 2001 f233HUe02956 f233HVW19466 Subject: Re: Questions and more questions... the lathe tool in question is a 60 degree thread cutting bit.Steve from rmoon@ida.net Fri Mar 2 21:22:32 2001 f233MRe03242 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Darrell Were all Cross rods built by Wes Jordan, or only some? Anymarkings to that effect? I have two Cross Doublebuilts. An8 1/2 and a 9, but I have not noticed anything to indicatethey are Jordan rods. Ralph from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 2 21:36:39 2001 f233ace03655 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: New Leonard Rod Co. I think Don meant PH Young Dry Fly Specials made by Heddon... Darrell www.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Don,What's this about Paynes and Heddons? Don't rememberhearing that before. Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote: There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Flyrods rolled out 100%completed out of the Heddon plant. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rmcelvain@uswest.net Fri Mar 2 22:18:58 2001 f234Ive04459 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.4.162) Subject: Re: Where to fish in theFlorida Keys A man I use to work for has a large boat in Marathon (rigged for big fish). I was going to be there a few days and I asked his Captain for a "flats" guide to do some fly fishing. He recommended Tommy Busciglio of Marathon (305) 743-7225. It was not a good time of year (January) for fishing the flats, the water was cold and the fish were not there. Tommy had me wait until the last day, hoping for warmer water, finally at my insistence he agreed to go for a half a day morning, to be extended at my request to a full day if I wanted. He had at this time a "bass boat" that got us around to several fishing areas very fast. Great guide, tried very hard to find fish, very honest. He had all the fly fishing equipment needed. His card says "tarpon, permit, bonefish". He is located at 555 112th St., Ocean, Marathon, Fla. 33050. Good luck. No financial interest, blah, blah, blah. Bob McElvain At 04:56 PM 3/2/01 -0500, you wrote:Hi...I may be taking my nephews fishng in the keys (13 and 14 years old). It would be mid to late summer (ugh - hot!). Anyone know of any guides down there for inshore fish (flats type). I can find stuff in magazines but would rather get a real recommendation. Thanks, Andy from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 2 22:27:24 2001 f234RNe04693 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Wes Jordan, South Bend, Cross rods According to my memory from reading the Wes Jordan book (now out ofprint)Wes actually made the rods himself as the Cross rods co. Now, the CrossDoublebuilts were the high grade South Bends but there were essentiallyproduction rods like the rest of the SB's. That's why the true Cross rods are so scarce and expensive... you rarely seethem come up for sale. But still usually undervalued IMHO. The best South Bend rods are the ones that are pre-WWII when Jordan wasrunning the SB shop. They are identified by having an oval decal as opposedto the rectangular decals and the grooved grips of the post WWII rods. I'veowned a few high grade pre-WWII SB rods with very nice NS fittings,reelseats and delicate cane, but most were beat to death... sorta like a lotof EC Powell rods I come across... great rods that were loved to death... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Darrell Were all Cross rods built by Wes Jordan, or only some? Anymarkings to that effect? I have two Cross Doublebuilts. An8 1/2 and a 9, but I have not noticed anything to indicatethey are Jordan rods. Ralph from tcwege@earthlink.net Fri Mar 2 22:39:44 2001 f234dhe04984 UAA05528 Subject: Storing Strips while in production Hi All,Since I am doing this purely for fun and I know this will take me a while Iwas wondering, what do I do with my strips during the whole buildingprocess? I belief I read somewhere ( on the list maybe?) that some folksstore there strips in a pvc tube with a drying agent to keep moisture out??Is this necessary or am I making it more complicated than it needs to be.TIA,Tilo from goodaple@tcac.net Fri Mar 2 23:26:04 2001 f235Q4e05875 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Making specialty varnishes Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A370.90360D60 Can anyone give me some insight or suggestions on how to go about making =some specialty varnishes using such ingredients as copal,dammar, mastic, =linseed, alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have located some sources = "cooking" the concoction? Also if anyone would be willing to part with =some "basic" recipes I would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A370.90360D60 Can anyone give me some insight or = how to go about making some specialty varnishes using such ingredients = copal,dammar, mastic, linseed, alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have = some sources for the ingredients but am looking for some beginners = some "basic" recipes I would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A370.90360D60-- from Canerods@aol.com Sat Mar 3 00:12:16 2001 f236CEe06729 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. --part1_3a.1193e969.27d1e535_boundary In a message dated 3/2/01 6:39:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Don,What's this about Paynes and Heddons? Don't rememberhearing that before. Harry Guys, I meant PHY dry fly - brain cell died that controls the keyboard. Don --part1_3a.1193e969.27d1e535_boundary In a message dated3/2/01 6:39:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Don, hearing that before. Guys, I meant PHY dry fly - brain cell died that controls the keyboard. Don --part1_3a.1193e969.27d1e535_boundary-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 3 03:11:09 2001 f239B8e08806 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:11:05 +0000 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? Built cane and split cane are one in the same.This is an 'English 'termto describe that the rod is composed of several sections glued together.This term is used to differentiate from 'cane'where the section iscomposed of whole cane.for example many old English coarse rods had awhole cane butt and middle section with a built/split cane topsection.........hope this helps........Paul Claude Freaner wrote: At 9:02 AM -0800 , 3/2/01, Ken McNeill wrote about Norman Aguttersblanks ?Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks soundstoo low to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm On this site, they refer to "As rodmakers we have sought perfectionin the peformance of a Split Bamboo Fly Rod (Split Cane or BuiltCane)." I understand what "split cane" is, but what is "built cane"? Nodeless,maybe? Claude from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 3 03:22:09 2001 f239M8e09007 Subject: Re: Storing Strips while in production Tilo;It depends on the typical average humidity where you live. If you are in a veryhumid environment, like New Orleans, you better do something, but here insouthwest Colorado, I just leave em out on the workbench, as soon as thesunhits the shop the humidity will drop to 40%.John Tilo Wege wrote: Hi All,Since I am doing this purely for fun and I know this will take me a while Iwas wondering, what do I do with my strips during the whole buildingprocess? I belief I read somewhere ( on the list maybe?) that some folksstore there strips in a pvc tube with a drying agent to keep moisture out??Is this necessary or am I making it more complicated than it needs to be.TIA,Tilo from thogan@rochester.rr.com Sat Mar 3 05:57:50 2001 f23Bvne10448 f23Bsqw29343 Subject: Re: sharpening Clearly I was wrong when I said there was no room for argument on asecondary or micro bevel!At best, I can say it works for me. I have tried it both ways with exactduplicates of planes and blades, and I preferred the one with a secondarybevel. This is somewhat of a non scientific experiment as two planes out ofthe box and gone through similar tune ups will act quite differently.I guess if you are getting good results from not adding a bevel, then stickwith that. This leads me into another thought regarding sharpening, and Iwonder how often people do it? I will go first. I have developed a patternso to speak, one that I was taught, and works well I think for bamboo rods.After each set of six strips I go over and hone the micro bevel using ahoning guide and template to help instantly set up the guide. The entireprocedure takes less than 5 minutes. Sometimes I do this after a set ofthree. I only take a few pushes on the sharpening stone, but boy does itmake a difference.I don't know if Krenov, Maloof, and other famous furniture makers use asecondary bevel or not. I recant what I said about furniture makers asbamboo maybe quite different from hardwoods and the proper set up of aplanemay be different as well.Thanks for all the replies. The discussion for this thread has beeninteresting. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 3 06:47:49 2001 f23Clle10950 Subject: Re: Making specialty varnishes Randall,try these sites. The first one is a site of old "folk" names of chemicalswhichI've found useful in this sort of thing.http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/Chem-History/Obsolete-Chem- TermsTOC.htmlhttp://violins.on.ca/recipes.htmlhttp://www.assoc- restorers.com/r- articles/padding_shellac.htmlhttp://www.shavings.net/FRENCH.HTMhttp://www.vrx.net/richard/paint/ I haven't made anything that is better than you can currently buy BUT thereisa lot of talk about gradually getting rid of all oil based finishes here someday and I'd like to have a choice in finish if that day arrives. Let me knowhow you go with this, I'd be very interested. Tony At 11:29 PM 3/2/01 -0600, Randall Gregory wrote: Can anyone give me some insight or suggestions on how to go about makingsomespecialty varnishes using such ingredients as copal,dammar, mastic,linseed,alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have located some sources for theingredients but am looking for some beginners methods to "cooking" theconcoction? Also if anyone would be willing to part with some "basic"recipesI would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo shavings or something). Thanks in advance, Randall Gregory NW AR. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sat Mar 3 07:04:49 2001 f23D4me11236 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 3 Mar 2001 07:05:03 -0600 Subject: bamboo ferrule Someone on the list asked for close up pics of the bamboo ferrules... theseare the best I have right now, but if you want to look at them go tohttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmThis page was done before the rod was complete, but gives you a littlebit better look at the ferrule and an idea how it's made. Bob from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 3 08:36:02 2001 f23Ea1e13699 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Norman Agutters blanks ?] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A3EB8488F4517D729C572368 --------------A3EB8488F4517D729C572368 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? Built cane and split cane are one in the same.This is an 'English 'termto describe that the rod is composed of several sections glued together.This term is used to differentiate from 'cane'where the section iscomposed of whole cane.for example many old English coarse rods had awhole cane butt and middle section with a built/split cane topsection.........hope this helps........Paul Claude Freaner wrote: At 9:02 AM -0800 , 3/2/01, Ken McNeill wrote about Norman Aguttersblanks ?Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks soundstoo low to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm On this site, they refer to "As rodmakers we have sought perfectionin the peformance of a Split Bamboo Fly Rod (Split Cane or BuiltCane)." I understand what "split cane" is, but what is "built cane"? Nodeless,maybe? Claude --------------A3EB8488F4517D729C572368-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Mar 3 08:56:25 2001 f23EuOe14051 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 3 Mar 2001 08:56:39 -0600 Subject: Richard Nantel Richard... Can't find your email address... Email me offlist if you wouldn'tmind. Thanks,Bob from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Mar 3 09:40:14 2001 f23FeEe14773 Subject: Re: Bamboo Ferrule This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0A369.605439C0 BobI think your bamboo ferrules are very cool!A very interesting concept to say the least.Do you chamfer the end of the male ferrule slightlyto prevent splitting when pushing the male ferrule into the female =ferrule? ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0A369.605439C0 Bob = cool!A very interesting concept to say least.Do you chamfer the end of the male = slightlyto prevent splitting when pushing the = into the female ferrule? =_NextPart_000_001C_01C0A369.605439C0-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 3 10:23:34 2001 f23GNXe15446 +0000 Subject: Bait Casters-Reel Seats Any ideas as to where /who one should contact for an in line Heddon typereelseat with an integral casting trigger ( i.e not a crank handledcasting handle )??Thanks.........Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 10:27:59 2001 f23GRwe15649 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:20:35 -0600 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Me neither Harry. Perhaps he meant PHY's "Dry Fly" rod that the used aHeddon blank for ? Paul said he wanted nothing to do with making that kindof taper.GMA from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Mar 3 10:32:56 2001 f23GWoe15908 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:34:48 -0600 Subject: SoWbug Roundup There will be members from this list doing tyingand demos. The North Arkansas Flyfishers will be holdingtheir annual Fly Fishing show on March 30-31 atthe Ramada Inn in Mtn. Home Arkansas. There willbe about 70 fly tyers, bamboo and graphite rodmaking, Casting pools and vendors. :http://www.northarkansasflyfisher.org/Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 10:37:19 2001 f23GbIe16103 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:29:54 -0600 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. I have 3 So. Bend Cross Double Builts, and 2 Cross Single Builts. The realCross rods were made in the 1920's, before So. Bend acquired Cross.Regardless of whether Wes J. built it, they were all made under hissupervision, and quality standard. I also have a Montague Power Built 50, that is almost mint, and it's also adouble built. All of these are really fine rods, above the average for certain !GMA from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 10:55:41 2001 f23Gtee16543 2001 08:55:42 PST Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. gma, i have a cross doublebuilt but never have fishedit and doubt i ever will. do you ever fish yours? timothy --- nobler wrote:I have 3 So. Bend Cross Double Builts, and 2 CrossSingle Builts. The realCross rods were made in the 1920's, before So. Bendacquired Cross.Regardless of whether Wes J. built it, they were allmade under hissupervision, and quality standard. I also have a Montague Power Built 50, that isalmost mint, and it's also adouble built. All of these are really fine rods, above the average GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 11:15:20 2001 f23HFJe17057 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:07:53 -0600 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. My So. Bends are al bass bug tapers, and one was fished when I was up inArk. in Oct.. It pushes a nice line ! I've not had a chance to even cast one single built, that is fully restored,and extremely nice. The other is a Forsyth, that was buggered with sloppyferrules, and a plastic dip finish. I'll finish restoring it too. Both ofthese have excellent cane work. The single builts are more in the troutaction class, but 9' to 9.5' from that era.GMA from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Mar 3 11:19:20 2001 f23HJJe17271 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Timothy,Fish the poor rod... don't you hear it calling out to you?Seriuosly, the rods were made to be fished. I remember the firstLeonard I had, I tiptoed over the streambed and worried over every mossystone, lest I trip and injure the rod. One day of fishing like that andI was ready to break the rod myself, over my bondage to it. Since then Ihave enjoyed my old rods thoroughly without taking more than the generalcare they deserve. Try it, you'll like it.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ timothy troester wrote: gma, i have a cross doublebuilt but never have fishedit and doubt i ever will. do you ever fish yours?timothy from rmoon@ida.net Sat Mar 3 11:50:47 2001 f23Hoje17902 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. --------------71E32E0BBA176315D103D04F reed curry wrote: Fish the poor rod... don't you hear it calling out toyou? Reed, I really concur, but there is a downside. I came to this conclusion alittle over a year ago, so one fine day I took mt best rod, a 7'6" Granger,my hardy Perfect reel, two exquisitely made wooden fly boxes to fish theHenry's Fork. Now I have bad balance, so I was paying a lot of attention tomy wading. I have not fallen in for years, so of course I took a header.No problem I thought, just drop my toes and the current will sweep meupright. Yeah, sure! I drove at least twenty gallons of water down my noseand throat. You just didn't do it right I thought, and tried again. Thistime I imbibed only thirty gallons of water. A little bit desperate Irolled over on my back and immediately began floating like a cork, except Ihad no way of getting up or of propelling my self. I figured that beforethe time I hit the Columbia River someone might pull me out. And so theydid. I was still clinging desperately to my ski pole wading staff, but allthe good stuff I left in