from miangler@yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 00:32:30 2001 f216WTe08981 2001 22:32:26 PST Subject: Status Report.... Well, more questions... Got a Baker 1" dial gauge onebay tonight, now I need to figure out how and whereto get one of those bases that is used in conjunctionwith it. Also, if anyone has an extra 60 degree pointI will purchase... better yet, does anyone know whereI can obtain one. I have heard that you have to makeone on a lathe...which I of course don't have! I gotin contact with a fishing woodworker that has a fullyoutfitted shop and we're going to make a planing formin a few weeks. I am enjoying the process! Thanks, Mike Janik =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from bh887@lafn.org Thu Mar 1 00:32:47 2001 f216Wke09031 forged)) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: 7.0 Earthquake in Seattle Hey Darrel......Are you forgetting the Northridge quake? My memory tells methat scaled out to 7.1. And we HAVE had more rain than Seattle so far thisyear. Your right about the rest...go figure! Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: 7.0 Earthquake in Seattle Well, That's worse than California has ever had... Also, I think California hashad more rain this year so far than Washington... go figure... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DutcherSent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:10 PM Subject: 7.0 Earthquake in Seattle Hello All, This was the hardest earthquake I have yet to experience. I wasonboardon the bridge at the time. I could feel pounding on the hull of the boat,then the vessel started to rise and fall. I could not see any visiblecauseat the time. Next the water in the harbor began to percolate straight intothe air, no waves, just spiting straight up something like a tide rip.Finally the pilings in the dock system began to pound the docks. I did notthink those things could move so much. I have been through eighty mile perhour winds at this mooring and that does not come close to the movementIsaw to day. The whole thing lasted a little more than thirty seconds. A longduration for an earthquake, I am told. The boat is still afloat, thebamboois still in the appropriate number of pieces, and me, I need a shower andachange of clothes. Regards to all,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Mar 1 03:09:15 2001 f2199Ee11798 Subject: Re: wrapping thread -- now thread sizes In a message dated 2/28/01 8:53:07 PM Central Standard Time, Troutgetter@aol.com writes: The place where I buy my Pvc also sells spray paint! A little sandpaper, a few minutes with a spray can (flourescent orange is good, I don't lose my rod case that way) a Sanford Sharpie Marker for the "custom engraved nameplate" (as plano would call it) and VOILA! I even put strapping tape and D rings on the case so I can hook in a shoulder strap!Actually I have two rather nice rod cases. One is an aluminum tube with a screw in cap the other is a plastic tube. They were origianally designed don't remember where I got them exactly, but any blueprint supply place will have them i think. They can be fairly expensive. BUT I think the plastic ones are cheap enough. Personally if I were to actually BUY one, I would go to a mail supply (mail boxes etc as an example) and purchase a mailing tube with plastic caps. Tape one end closed, cut the tube to length, slip in the rod (in it's rod bag!) and you have a custom built case! If you want to take the trouble, you can make really NICE appearing cases by using contact paper in a variety of beautiful , designer colors and patterns too. I have seen granite, wood, holstein, and many bright colors!(with tongue firmly in cheek) mark "Piscator non solum Piscatur" from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Mar 1 05:38:03 2001 f21Bc1e13346 f21Bbq016785; Subject: Re: Sharpening James I don't sharpen with a microbevel. I have tried it and don't see that in myhands it offers any advantages. I am pretty fussy about the edges on my sharps, and like to be able to seewhere I am in the honing process; neither do I mind sharpening a bit moreoften. To me, it's a hobby, an avocation rather than a vocation, and Iguess I am doing it in the first place to pass the time agreeably. Microbevels seem to me just to give two angles to worry about and to keepin balance; either that or you find yourself from strip to strip planingwith one of a sort of random assortment of microbevels, bevels, ormacrobevels! I sharpen at about 35 degrees, I keep it VERY sharp, I don't try to move toomuch cane at a pass, and ( I just know that I am going to be sorry that Isaid this ) I don't chip nodes. My two bob's worth! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with a micro-bevel? To thosewhohave tried it both with and without, which do you prefer and why? from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 1 07:00:17 2001 f21D0Ge14170 Subject: Re: Sharpening James(and Peter);I suppose there needs to be a Devil's Advocate here. I do use a second bevel,Istart with the 30d bevel the blade comes with then put a second bevel of35d onit, mainly because the second bevel only takes a minute or two to resharpenandthe full bevel takes much longer. When I need to resharpen, I am usually tooantsy to get to planing strips to have the patience to spend too much timesharpening. I do most of my shop work between getting home from work anddinner,so time is of the essence.John Peter McKean wrote: James I don't sharpen with a microbevel. I have tried it and don't see that in myhands it offers any advantages. I am pretty fussy about the edges on my sharps, and like to be able to seewhere I am in the honing process; neither do I mind sharpening a bit moreoften. To me, it's a hobby, an avocation rather than a vocation, and Iguess I am doing it in the first place to pass the time agreeably. Microbevels seem to me just to give two angles to worry about and tokeepin balance; either that or you find yourself from strip to strip planingwith one of a sort of random assortment of microbevels, bevels, ormacrobevels! I sharpen at about 35 degrees, I keep it VERY sharp, I don't try to move toomuch cane at a pass, and ( I just know that I am going to be sorry that Isaid this ) I don't chip nodes. My two bob's worth! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "James Piotrowski" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:44 AMSubject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with a micro-bevel? To thosewhohave tried it both with and without, which do you prefer and why? from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 1 08:15:09 2001 f21EF9e15871 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:15:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Status Report.... Mike, The base can be made or purchased. It is just a piece of metal thatwill hold the gauge. The point can be purchased from an Industrial Supply House. I have beenaway from Kalamazoo for too long (30 Yrs) to know the names of suchplacesthere now, but there used to be some on the near north side of town out byKings Highway area. I know there are several in a town the size ofKalamazoo. Starette (sp) makes a good one. They are less than $5.00 apiece. I don't know the status of lumber yards there any more either. But the L.L.Johnson Lumber Yard in Charlotte or Grand Rapids has very good gradehardwoods. My brother in Lansing buys from them. They have a website(www.theworkbench.com). Hope this helps.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Status Report.... Well, more questions... Got a Baker 1" dial gauge onebay tonight, now I need to figure out how and whereto get one of those bases that is used in conjunctionwith it. Also, if anyone has an extra 60 degree pointI will purchase... better yet, does anyone know whereI can obtain one. I have heard that you have to makeone on a lathe...which I of course don't have! I gotin contact with a fishing woodworker that has a fullyoutfitted shop and we're going to make a planing formin a few weeks. I am enjoying the process! Thanks, Mike Janik =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from parataper@hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 08:49:26 2001 f21EnPe17094 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 06:49:21 -0800 HTTP; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:49:21 GMT Subject: Re: Status Report.... FILETIME=[CD2B81E0:01C0A25E] Mike, When you taper a steel form, most likely you will use a 60 deg file glued to a block of plywood. If you do, use the same setup to make a 60 deg point. Chuck a short non-60 deg point in a drill press, and lie the file glued to the plywood on the drill press table, file side up. Run it along the chucked point to get the 60 deg point. If this is hard to understand, (it's hard to explain) contact me and I will try to explain further. Mark From: Mike Janik Subject: Status Report.... Well, more questions... Got a Baker 1" dial gauge onebay tonight, now I need to figure out how and whereto get one of those bases that is used in conjunctionwith it. Also, if anyone has an extra 60 degree pointI will purchase... better yet, does anyone know whereI can obtain one. I have heard that you have to makeone on a lathe...which I of course don't have! I gotin contact with a fishing woodworker that has a fullyoutfitted shop and we're going to make a planing formin a few weeks. I am enjoying the process! Thanks, Mike Janik =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Mar 1 09:14:55 2001 f21FEse18028 Subject: Splitting Help Okay, this is probably not a new question, but here goes. Most of the toolsare built, except a couple of major ones (oven, binder), and I'm working onthose (or rather on dealing with those problems).Got my first culm last week (gotta say one more time, that Russ Gooding is astandup guy). Splitting was an adventure to say the least. I split outhalf of the top half of the culm (or a 1/4 culm). Most of that got wasted,but I'm starting to get the hang of it. Ready to rip up the other half, sohere is the question. How big do you split your splines. I've got the Garrison/Carmichael book,in which they recommend splitting to 3/16 larger than the largest finisheddimension of the spline. I'm making a 7' trout rod, and 3/16 is more thantwice the largest dimension of the tip strip. Do I really need to split outpieces 3x the size the spline? I realize there will be shrinkage in heattreating, and mistakes in planing along the way, but that seems huge, lotsof extra planing, lots of wasted cane. How large do you split? TIA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 10:02:38 2001 f21G2ce21377 Subject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone give me aphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand they have "A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from rextutor@about.com Thu Mar 1 10:19:20 2001 f21GJJe22559 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 08:19:14 -0800 Subject: Fixer to blue Peter Mckean and DannyI have tried Kodak rapid fixer with no luck at all. I followed peters instructions and tried several variations. I must have the wrong stuff. It is liquid in parts a and B , fixer and hardner. The ferrules stay shinney . ANy ideas ? sources of solutionTIARex Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Mar 1 10:27:08 2001 f21GR8e23195 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Thu Mar 1 10:33:22 2001 f21GXLe23726 1 Mar 2001 11:32:56 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Darrell, Not anymore. I wish it was. I think they cashed it in sometime in the1960s or 70s. I have a couple of their catalogs from the 1930s. I wish Icould have time warped back to see that store in its prime. One of those old catalogs advertised 3 piece tubular steel rods with 2 tipsections. You HAD to have 2 tips in those days to compete with bamboos! Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Mar 1 10:55:01 2001 f21Gt0e25172 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Fixer to blue Rex, I believe it is the same stuff Peter is using with great success. I had theT- Max and Ilford stuff in my dark room and tried it, it worked so I haven'ttried other..... Are You sure Your ferrules are NS? I have used it on Tony's, I'm not surewhat % of nickel they are.... regardsdanny From: "Rex Tutor" Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:20:39 -0700 Subject: Fixer to blue Peter Mckean and DannyI have tried Kodak rapid fixer with no luck at all. I followed petersinstructions and tried several variations. I must have the wrongstuff. It is liquid in parts a and B , fixer and hardner. Theferrules stay shinney .ANy ideas ? sources of solutionTIARex Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from jhewittiii@springsips.com Thu Mar 1 11:04:15 2001 f21H4Ee25679 springsips.com) (63.29.89.124) Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop GMA,The Angler's Workshop catalog lists their phone number as (360)225- 9445.They also have a toll free FAX # it is: (800) 278-1069.John. nobler wrote: This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone give meaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand they have"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Mar 1 11:27:24 2001 f21HRNe26757 Subject: Re: Fixer to blue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0A1E6.00EA9EE0 Rex about 15 minutes instead of wiping it on with a rag.Make sure you have a strong mixture and if this does not work than Danny =is right ,your ferrules may not be nickel silver. My fixer takes longer =to react than brass blackwould. I use Kodak fixer in the powder form and mix it with water. Let =me know if it works.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0A1E6.00EA9EE0 RexTry submerging the parts in themixture = about 15 minutes instead of wiping it = rag.Make sure you have a strong mixtureand = does not work than Danny is right ,your ferrules may not be nickel = would. I use Kodak fixer in the powder = it with water. Let me know if it works.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0A1E6.00EA9EE0-- from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Thu Mar 1 13:21:34 2001 f21JLXe01133 Subject: Rodmakers at Grayrock 2001 Hello Folks, Preparations are well under way for this year's Rodmakers Gathering in Grayling, Michigan. Official dates are June 21st thru June 23rd, however, as always folks start showing up as early as June 17th for some fishing, and general hanging-out at "The Clubhouse" The Grayrock 2001 organizing committee this year is... * Wayne Cattanach - Programs; Food; Publicity; Treasurer ;-) Helping Wayne out this year is... * Dennis Higham & Doug Hall - Programs* Miles & Cheryl Teirnan - Food* Charlie Curro - Publicity (great job on the web page Charlie!)* Mike Biondo - Treasurer A tentative program is already in the works. Please take a look at Rodmakers at Grayrock 2001 webpagehttp://www.curro.net/grayrock2001/ for a look at the program and a registration form (please register early). Also happening the same weekend is the (in)famous Trout Bum Bar-B-Que. If you are interested in finding out more and/or http://www.troutbums.com/ and follow the links. Please stay tuned, more will be forthcoming...if anyone has any questions and/or program suggestions feel free to contact myself, or Dennis (Dennishigham@cs.com) Mike Biondo from jourdoktorn@chello.se Thu Mar 1 14:47:10 2001 f21Kl9e04607 (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 license13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65) Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:46:29 +0100 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Hi Darrel, I suppose you mean the H.L. Leonard Co i Texas? There is a website offering"original" Leonard rods. I do not know if this person bought the Leonardcompany or not but it really seems that way when reading on the website.Hereis the link to see for yourself.http://www.hlleonard.com/I tried to email this company a year ago and did not receive any answerthough. Thanks,Jan Nystrom Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from thogan@rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 1 15:45:08 2001 f21Lj7e06913 Subject: Re: Sharpening A micro-bevel is a must. There is no room for argument. I encourage you todiscuss this with a someone who makes his/her living by making hand madefurniture that involves a hand plane. I have found the micro bevel atime- saver! I giggle at those who have found bamboo nodes a problems asthisis indicitive of a dull blade, not the material. By the best blade and planeyou can afford. Read all you can in properly adjusting the plane. This willpay back multi-fold. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with a micro-bevel? To thosewhohave tried it both with and without, which do you prefer and why? from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 16:19:06 2001 f21MJ4e08099 2001 14:19:06 PST Subject: Re: Sharpening taylor, i will agree with you that there is nosubstitute for a sharp plane blade. i have used amicrobevel before and although it does speed up thesharpening process in the short term it does takelonger to re-sharpen the bevel when the micro getsbigger. i still do use it from time to time tho'. i'mnot interested in a debate but am interested in anyreferences you might suggest. "sharp blade" hasdefinitely be redefined in the learning process andreferences to planing and sharpening are hard to come ps sorry about the spelling tjt --- taylor hogan wrote:A micro-bevel is a must. There is no room forargument. I encourage you todiscuss this with a someone who makes his/her living furniture that involves a hand plane. I have foundthe micro bevel atime- saver! I giggle at those who have found bamboonodes a problems as thisis indicitive of a dull blade, not the material. Bythe best blade and planeyou can afford. Read all you can in properlyadjusting the plane. This willpay back multi-fold. ----- Original Message -----From: "James Piotrowski" Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:44 PMSubject: Sharpening How many of you sharpen your plane irons with amicro-bevel? To those whohave tried it both with and without, which do youprefer and why? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Mar 1 17:13:26 2001 f21NDPe10247 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: thanks everyone Are you older or younger than Nunley? I was wondering if you were his -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: thanks everyone As I metioned before on this thread, anybody who hasn't tried this methodshould. Peter McKean spoke to me about how easy it was at a time when Iwasonly making nodeless rods so I didn't try it right off. When I made somerodswith nodes I initially thought the only reason nobody bandsaws is because alotof makers didn't own one. I found it it's because it's possibly the worstwayto do the job. I tried straight fences, pin fences, no fence, threats,swearing, foot stamping, thin blades, wide blades, blunt blades sharpblades,hi speed, slow and med speeds. I even kicked the saw. As a late teen in mythird year as a 'prettice boat builder I was making a glued lap plywoodyachttender dingy a week for a few months using nothing more than a band saw,blockplane and pencil so I know my way around a band saw. I've also wrecked 3brandnew router bits in a half hr from hitting hidden nails, droped an almost newdrill into the sea while it was running, watched as my (also running)outboardmotor also droped into the sea when the mounting bracket parted from theboat,almost lost a finger to a (suddenly) spinning drill bit in a morse taper.Allthese things and more I took with a shrug and put down to experience thoughI've wondered if somebody up there was hinting at something with theoutboardthing but this was different this was Tony v The Bamboo.After a couple of hrs with nothing to show but strips far too wide for myliking or very nice kindeling I switched off the bandsaw and sat down whereIam now and read Peter's explanation of Bob's method. Litteraly 15 mins laterIhad 26 perfectly split strips on my bench. My advise if you haven't tried it is to right now, get up, grab a culm andtryit. Tony At 11:38 PM 2/26/01 -0500, Spico81@aol.com wrote: I just tried Nunley's splitting method on some scrap pieces and it works great. Its fast, its efficient, and I never have to worry about cuttingmy fingers off with a saw. Thanks, Sam /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Mar 1 17:29:33 2001 f21NTWe10817 Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Hi,Their email is: info@anglersworkshop.comRay----- Original Message ----- Subject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone give meaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand they have"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Mar 1 18:00:28 2001 (may be forged)) f2200Re11835 (5.5.2653.19) "'fbcwin@3g.quik.com '" Subject: RE: wrapping thread Bob -- I got to be a believer in the strength of wraps when I systematically brokeup my third and fourth rods. A couple of scarf joints looked like they werestarting to fail (these were nodeless rods) and I decided the only way toreally know was to break the damn things up and learn what I could. Itsounds crazy but I learned a lot, including the difference in appearancebetween and good and bad scarf. Prior to this rash decision, I had added some silk wraps over a few of thequestionable-looking scarfs. I went ahead and broke the things up every wayI could -- at scarf joints, not at scarf joints, attempted to delaminatesections, etc -- and I'll tell you the places where there were wraps wouldnot readily break. I was really surprised. This was true at the reinforcingwraps, those holding down guides, etc. I used gossamer throughout, standardvarnish on the wraps. The bamboo was sound and except for a few scarfsthejoints were good, so it was a reasonably good test I think. One man'sexperience for what it's worth.... Barry from harms1@pa.net Thu Mar 1 18:45:01 2001 f220ixe13133 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:44:39 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Angler's Workshop carries YLI silk thread, though perhaps marketed undersome other name. You would probably do better on price if you were tocontact YLI directly. I have done this, but I believe they will want you todeclare yourself as a business. Not a problem. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Hi,Their email is: info@anglersworkshop.comRay----- Original Message ----- From: "nobler" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:10 AMSubject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone givemeaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand theyhave"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from oakmere@carol.net Thu Mar 1 19:00:47 2001 f2210ke13552 Subject: RE: Washington Quake Hi Folks: Glad to hear that the folks on the RMer's and FF@ lists are doing ok afterthe big one near Seattle. Take care and great to hear that all are ok. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from oakmere@carol.net Thu Mar 1 19:00:48 2001 f2210le13556 Subject: RE: 60d points Hi Mike: Try Golden Witch. They have 60d points. No financial interest. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Mar 1 19:01:01 2001 f2210te13567 Subject: Contest winner Tom Oatman, chosen at random, won the W&M Granger rod in the contest.The correct answer, BTW, was Grey Palmer. Tom will have to get busy prepping this rod for Grayrock.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 19:28:02 2001 f221S2e15105 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:21:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Back in the '80's a friend of mine who had retired from Wall St. was livinghere. He knew the people at Mills quite well, and was setting up to buildbamboo rods. He made a trip up there to buy the whole thing, but died in hissleep the first night there ! His name was Bill Parvin, and was awarded alife membership in TU for starting the chapter here, many years before. His rod collection was awesome. His wife got a friend to sell it off, so Inever knew where it went. I do recall an original Ritz, among many others.GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 19:34:54 2001 f221Yre15340 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:27:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Thanks to all for the contact with Angler's Workshop.GMA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 1 20:34:42 2001 f222Yfe16444 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:34:01 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Didn't "Johnsons" of floor wax fame buy them(Leonard) out originally?? BTWspeakingof Leonard, does anyone out there have the Leonard ACM taper?? Beentrying to get it Thanks,Shawn Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from Troutgetter@aol.com Thu Mar 1 21:05:06 2001 f22355e17335 Subject: Re: wrapping thread -- now thread sizes mcdowellc@lanecc.edu --part1_b3.7ccdb0a.27d067af_boundary In a message dated 3/1/2001 1:09:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: Personally if I were to actually BUY one, I would go to a mail supply (mail boxes etc as an example) and purchase a mailing tube with plastic caps. Tape one end closed, cut the tube to length, slip in the rod (in it's rod bag!) and you have a custom built case! If you want to take the trouble, you can make really NICE appearing cases by using contact paper in a variety of beautiful , designer colors and patterns too. I have seen granite, wood, holstein, and many bright colors!(with tongue firmly in cheek) mark Mark,Card board tubes painted flouresent orange. Why didn't I think of that! I can see them better before I back over them with the ol' landcrusher. And if I can find some material to match the old lady's drapes, then she might not bitch about a bunch of rod cases standing up next to the couch! But if I spray painted the couch flouresent orange then ....THANKS!Mike --part1_b3.7ccdb0a.27d067af_boundary In a message dated3/1/2001 1:09:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: Personally if Iwere to actually BUY one, I would go to a mail supply (mail boxes etc as an example) and purchase a mailingtube slip in the want to take the trouble, you can make really NICE appearing cases by using contact paper seen granite, wood, holstein, and many bright colors!(with tongue firmly in cheek) mark Mark,Card board tubes painted flouresent orange. Why didn't I think of that! can see them better before I back over them with the ol' landcrusher.And if I can find some material to match the old lady's drapes, then she mightnot bitch about a bunch of rod cases standing up next to the couch! But if I spray painted the couch flouresent orange then ....THANKS!Mike --part1_b3.7ccdb0a.27d067af_boundary-- from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Mar 1 21:10:05 2001 f223A5e17549 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS sale forcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taper patternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Mar 1 22:00:57 2001 f2240ve18624 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 20:00:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Shawn, Why not try Ron Kusse? http://www.ronkusse.com/ Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Shawn Pineo Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:37 PMSubject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Didn't "Johnsons" of floor wax fame buy them(Leonard) out originally?? BTWspeakingof Leonard, does anyone out there have the Leonard ACM taper?? Beentryingto get it Thanks,Shawn Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to owntheHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Mar 1 22:09:10 2001 f22499e18888 f2249tH16765; Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co f22499e18889 I thought that Ted Simroe recreated the tapers post fire, but what happenedto them I don't know. Also my understanding, is that it was graphite that putthem under. they were producing graphite rods with blanks made by Exxon, Ithink and they had problems with "exploding" Leonard stood by them, but Exxon didn't and Leonard went under. I knew aguy who was a sales rep for them at the time- Doug Davidson, but I haven'ttalked to him in years. Yes, also Johnson Wax did buy controling interest in them- they also ownedmuch of Old Town Canoe at the time, but I'm not sure if they still do.John K.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS sale forcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from thinair@townsqr.com Thu Mar 1 22:13:07 2001 f224D6e19114; compaqwww.townsqr.com ;Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:06:07 -0600 ,"and Collecting" Subject: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Here are a few spinning rod tapers for all of you taper junkies. I happento have some nice Young rods that I've measured and miked and for the timeand effort I certainly hope that someone will take it upon himself to make aSpinmaster for me Just e-mail it to me when it's finished and I'll give youa full report on how it fishes. he liked to fly fish Anyway: Spinmaster, 7'2", 3.35oz., lightly flamed, gold spiral wraps, 12 1/8"sliding ring handle, stepped 13/64 ferrule, semi-parabolic action. Loadsright through the handle into your arm. I haven't checked the taper againsta Para 13, but the rod also throws a nice 5wt.Guide spacing from tip: 5 *, 12 1/8, 19 *, 28 5/8, 37 *; 51 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0825 - .09110 - .10615 - .12620 - .14325 - .15730 - .17635 - .19240 - .207ferrule46 - .20850 - .21155 - .21660 - .22665 - .24670 - .25574 - .259 "Spin-Caster", 6'3", 3.00oz., medium flamed, made for Lewis Pyle in Apr'53,black wraps, 10 *" sliding ring handle, 16/64 Super Z ferrule.Guide spacing from tip: 6 3/16, 13 15/16, 24 5/16, 35 1/8; 46 5/8 (butt)Taper:0 - .0965 - .09810 - .11515 - .14220 - .15825 - .17430 - .19135 - .219ferrule40 - .216 (yes, I double checked the 35" and 40" measurements)45 - .22450 - .24155 - .25060 - .26664 - .274 "Special", 6'4", 3.40oz., 1955, lightly flamed, 17/64 ferrule, 8 *" slidingring handleGuide spacing from tip: 7 7/16, 16 5/16, 25 5/8, 35 5/16; 49 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0985 - .10110 - .12215 - .14820 - .15824 - .17030 - .19435 - .224ferrule41 - .22645 - .23850 - .24055 - .25760 - .26865 - .285 "Experimental Steelhead Baitcaster", 8'9", 20/64 ferrule, 8 1/4oz., Dec1948, darker cane, lightly flamed. This rod was owned by a friend of PaulYoung's in Florida (Col. O'Connell) who fished the Keys with Young. The tipis 54 *" and is ostensibly made from the tip section of the fabled andmysterious Parabolic 20. The handle is a fixed seat 15 *", crimson wraps onfoul-proof stainless steel guides. The rod does have a semi-parabolicaction loading right down into the handle and will cast about as far as youcan see.Guide spacing from tip: 6 5/8, 14 5/16, 24 3/8, 36 *, 49 5/16; 59 5/8, 72*(butt)Taper:0 - .1325 - .14010 - .15815 - .18820 - .21425 - .23230 - .24535 - .26040 - .26845 - .27650 - .29852.5 - .306ferrule57 - .32060 - .32565 - .33670 - .34275 - .36380 - .38085 - .40388.5 - .424 from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 1 22:28:07 2001 f224S5e19619 Subject: Re: Angler's Wookshop guys;You can get YLI from pinetree quiltworks(quiltworks.com) for a buck a spoolcheaper than Angler'sJohn WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Angler's Workshop carries YLI silk thread, though perhaps marketed undersome other name. You would probably do better on price if you were tocontact YLI directly. I have done this, but I believe they will want you todeclare yourself as a business. Not a problem. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Ray Gould" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 5:59 PMSubject: Re: Angler's Wookshop Hi,Their email is: info@anglersworkshop.comRay----- Original Message ----- From: "nobler" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:10 AMSubject: Angler's Wookshop This company's web site is down on our web site link. Can someone givemeaphone number, or Email address for them please ? I understand theyhave"A"thread, and I need to order some. Thanks,GMA from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 1 22:33:47 2001 f224Xke19993 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Brian;The tapers are alive and well and living in Ron Kusse's desk. Mark Aaronerbought 1 of 3 beveller's that were in use when the Infernal Revenue forcedLeonard to close for back excize taxes owed, somewhere between then andnow,Brian McGrath wound up with one of them and the rights to the Leonardname.John Brian Creek wrote: My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS saleforcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Mar 1 23:07:22 2001 f2257Le21054 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co Leonard went under for not paying excise.Joewww.geneseevalleyrods.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 23:16:10 2001 f225G9e21489; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:09:12 -0600 , "and Collecting" Subject: Re: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Thank you Gary !GMA from miangler@yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 23:56:12 2001 f225uCe22240 2001 21:56:13 PST Subject: Questions and more questions... Since I am still having problems with the archives, Iwill field the following. Winston Binney has offeredto set me up with a 60* point and I just want to saythanks! My next quandry is finding a 60* lathe toolto make my scraper from for making the wooden planingforms. I called around to about 6 places today andeither they didn't know what I was talking about orthey didn't carry them. I am starting to entertainthoughts of putting the unused Peerless Model 5 salmonreel that I own up for sale and just buying a set offorms from CO. Bootstrap or Lon Blauvelt! With thespare money I could get a Ryall and a few tools! Ifanyone has a planing form making scraper around that Icould borrow for a few weeks, I'd send it back! Theurgency comes in because I booked some time in awoodshop for March 10 and don't know when I'd be ableto get back in there if I had to re-schedule! The Enco base for the dial gauge looks like the ticket like to order it asap! Final question of the day: How suitable/durable is ahand rubbed tung oil finish, at least for the firstfew rods? I definitely prefer a dipped finish andwill eventually get there. I was just wondering... The more I think about it the more open I am toselling that Peerless, now that I know my future inrod making is a lot closer than I thought. $689original, got it last month, never used, would let itgo for $600... anyway, good night! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 00:10:52 2001 f226Aqe22752 Subject: Re:Questions and more questions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C0A250.8DFB1660 MikeYou could try going down to your local Lowes storeand they have triangular scraping blades in the paintscraper section. I'm not sure if they are 45 degreeblades or 60 deg. blades. But if they are 45 you could grindto a 60 point with a little effort. And they should cut wood nicely . =Just make sure when you grind the blade you put a relief grind on it = Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C0A250.8DFB1660 MikeYou could try going down to your local = storeand they have triangular scraping = paintscraper section. I'm not sure if they = degree you could grindto a 60 point with a little effort. And = cut wood nicely . Just make sure when you grind the blade you put a = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C0A250.8DFB1660-- from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Mar 2 00:11:50 2001 f226Bme22791 (63.228.45.71) Subject: Leonard 50 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A2AC.AEB44BE0 anyone have the Leonard 50 taper?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A2AC.AEB44BE0 anyone have the Leonard 50 =taper?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0A2AC.AEB44BE0-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 01:18:52 2001 f227Ipe24013 Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:18:48 -0800 Fri, 02 Mar 2001 07:18:48 GMT Subject: The New Leonard Rod Co. FILETIME=[067674C0:01C0A2E9] Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like they should be? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials orbody of work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name does not make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of a Dickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had changed their names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if given the rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production with quality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics once again.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in the wrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Mar 2 01:22:14 2001 f227MDe24191; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:22:13 +0000 and Collecting Subject: Re: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Wowwwwwww,thanks,very,very much...........Paul Gary wrote: Here are a few spinning rod tapers for all of you taper junkies. I happento have some nice Young rods that I've measured and miked and for thetimeand effort I certainly hope that someone will take it upon himself to make aSpinmaster for me Just e-mail it to me when it's finished and I'll give youa full report on how it fishes. come Seemshe liked to fly fish Anyway: Spinmaster, 7'2", 3.35oz., lightly flamed, gold spiral wraps, 12 1/8"sliding ring handle, stepped 13/64 ferrule, semi-parabolic action. Loadsright through the handle into your arm. I haven't checked the taperagainsta Para 13, but the rod also throws a nice 5wt.Guide spacing from tip: 5 *, 12 1/8, 19 *, 28 5/8, 37 *; 51 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0825 - .09110 - .10615 - .12620 - .14325 - .15730 - .17635 - .19240 - .207ferrule46 - .20850 - .21155 - .21660 - .22665 - .24670 - .25574 - .259 "Spin-Caster", 6'3", 3.00oz., medium flamed, made for Lewis Pyle in Apr'53,black wraps, 10 *" sliding ring handle, 16/64 Super Z ferrule.Guide spacing from tip: 6 3/16, 13 15/16, 24 5/16, 35 1/8; 46 5/8(butt)Taper:0 - .0965 - .09810 - .11515 - .14220 - .15825 - .17430 - .19135 - .219ferrule40 - .216 (yes, I double checked the 35" and 40" measurements)45 - .22450 - .24155 - .25060 - .26664 - .274 "Special", 6'4", 3.40oz., 1955, lightly flamed, 17/64 ferrule, 8 *" slidingring handleGuide spacing from tip: 7 7/16, 16 5/16, 25 5/8, 35 5/16; 49 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0985 - .10110 - .12215 - .14820 - .15824 - .17030 - .19435 - .224ferrule41 - .22645 - .23850 - .24055 - .25760 - .26865 - .285 "Experimental Steelhead Baitcaster", 8'9", 20/64 ferrule, 8 1/4oz., Dec1948, darker cane, lightly flamed. This rod was owned by a friend of PaulYoung's in Florida (Col. O'Connell) who fished the Keys with Young. The tipis 54 *" and is ostensibly made from the tip section of the fabled andmysterious Parabolic 20. The handle is a fixed seat 15 *", crimson wrapsonfoul-proof stainless steel guides. The rod does have a semi-parabolicaction loading right down into the handle and will cast about as far as youcan see.Guide spacing from tip: 6 5/8, 14 5/16, 24 3/8, 36 *, 49 5/16; 59 5/8,72 *(butt)Taper:0 - .1325 - .14010 - .15815 - .18820 - .21425 - .23230 - .24535 - .26040 - .26845 - .27650 - .29852.5 - .306ferrule57 - .32060 - .32565 - .33670 - .34275 - .36380 - .38085 - .40388.5 - .424 from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Mar 2 02:01:13 2001 f2281Ce24834 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:01:07 -0800 Subject: Earthquake Posts This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0A2AB.F70B63C0 I would like to thank all of you that sent messages, on and off list.Your thoughtfulness was very much appreciated. You are a great bunch ofpeople. Best regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0A2AB.F70B63C0 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010302T080143ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C0A2AB.F70B63C0-- from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri Mar 2 02:16:17 2001 f228GGe25220 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:38:10 +0100 Subject: Re: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Hi Gary, thanks a lot for the spinning tapers. They are just what I was lookingfor, since I'm fixing to build two spinning rods for birthday presents. Regards and thanks again Ralf from Germany Gary schrieb: Here are a few spinning rod tapers for all of you taper junkies. I happento have some nice Young rods that I've measured and miked and for thetimeand effort I certainly hope that someone will take it upon himself to make aSpinmaster for me Just e-mail it to me when it's finished and I'll give youa full report on how it fishes. come Seemshe liked to fly fish Anyway: Spinmaster, 7'2", 3.35oz., lightly flamed, gold spiral wraps, 12 1/8"sliding ring handle, stepped 13/64 ferrule, semi-parabolic action. Loadsright through the handle into your arm. I haven't checked the taperagainsta Para 13, but the rod also throws a nice 5wt.Guide spacing from tip: 5 *, 12 1/8, 19 *, 28 5/8, 37 *; 51 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0825 - .09110 - .10615 - .12620 - .14325 - .15730 - .17635 - .19240 - .207ferrule46 - .20850 - .21155 - .21660 - .22665 - .24670 - .25574 - .259 "Spin-Caster", 6'3", 3.00oz., medium flamed, made for Lewis Pyle in Apr'53,black wraps, 10 *" sliding ring handle, 16/64 Super Z ferrule.Guide spacing from tip: 6 3/16, 13 15/16, 24 5/16, 35 1/8; 46 5/8(butt)Taper:0 - .0965 - .09810 - .11515 - .14220 - .15825 - .17430 - .19135 - .219ferrule40 - .216 (yes, I double checked the 35" and 40" measurements)45 - .22450 - .24155 - .25060 - .26664 - .274 "Special", 6'4", 3.40oz., 1955, lightly flamed, 17/64 ferrule, 8 *" slidingring handleGuide spacing from tip: 7 7/16, 16 5/16, 25 5/8, 35 5/16; 49 * (butt)Taper:0 - .0985 - .10110 - .12215 - .14820 - .15824 - .17030 - .19435 - .224ferrule41 - .22645 - .23850 - .24055 - .25760 - .26865 - .285 "Experimental Steelhead Baitcaster", 8'9", 20/64 ferrule, 8 1/4oz., Dec1948, darker cane, lightly flamed. This rod was owned by a friend of PaulYoung's in Florida (Col. O'Connell) who fished the Keys with Young. The tipis 54 *" and is ostensibly made from the tip section of the fabled andmysterious Parabolic 20. The handle is a fixed seat 15 *", crimson wrapsonfoul-proof stainless steel guides. The rod does have a semi-parabolicaction loading right down into the handle and will cast about as far as youcan see.Guide spacing from tip: 6 5/8, 14 5/16, 24 3/8, 36 *, 49 5/16; 59 5/8,72 *(butt)Taper:0 - .1325 - .14010 - .15815 - .18820 - .21425 - .23230 - .24535 - .26040 - .26845 - .27650 - .29852.5 - .306ferrule57 - .32060 - .32565 - .33670 - .34275 - .36380 - .38085 - .40388.5 - .424 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 2 04:42:26 2001 f22AgPe26704 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I don't see much of what you mention here but I read and detect it a lot incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "name"? I'm not *really*asking because I think I know but it really makes you wonder doesn't it? Tony At 07:18 AM 3/2/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote:Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like they should be? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials orbody of work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name doesnot make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of a Dickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had changed their names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if given the rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production with quality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics once again.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in the wrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from stpete@netten.net Fri Mar 2 05:08:29 2001 f22B8Se27085 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:12:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Questions and more questions... Mike, The 60* lathe tool is a standard threading tool. If there is a machinetool supply house in your area you should be able to find it. Get aready made carbide tipped tool. The tools are labeled by shape and thethreading tool will be an 'E' tool with the second number referring tothe size or thickness of the square of metal it is made of. You'llwant a 1/2" or larger tool. Enco will have them and you can order oneor two when you get your indicator base. The chinese made carbidetipped lathe tools are not expensive at around $4.00 each. Enco, J&LIndustrial, MSC, K&B are all suppliers which will carry the tools youneed. They get orders out same day usually. If you still cannot findone, let me know later today and I will put one in the mail for you. Rick C. from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 2 05:48:23 2001 f22BmMe27731 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co from what I understand, The William Mills & Son name was purchaced in1971 by a guy named Bud Frasca. He owned a fly shop and commisioned TomDorsey later of T&T fame to make some cane rods to sell out of the shopwith the Mills name. BTW , by coincedence I at one time found myself inan Email conversation with the same Bud Frasca who offered me a Mills &Son Deluxe built by Tom Dorsey. I thought the price tag of $3000 a bitmuch (about $1500 to much). Marty My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS saleforcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 2 05:54:53 2001 f22Bsre27888 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co I also heard that at the Leonard auction (forced by the IRS) the IRSguys not knowing anything about fishing tackle grouped the rod sectionsin lots of mismatched sections. So one bidder bought butts , mids andtips that matched another bidders butts, mids and tips. How I wish I wasthere. Marty Leonard went under for not paying excise.Joewww.geneseevalleyrods.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Mar 2 06:27:47 2001 f22CRje28460 f22CRa020066; Subject: sharpening This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0A370.4B5E26A0 Jim Be very, very wary of him who says" there is no room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of room for argument. And I know several people who make really fine handmade furniture, and =I can tell you that their planes do not cut as well as mine. If you are =going to fall into this logical fallacy of "ask someone who knows", at =least ask someone who makes fine bamboo rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them probably use micro-bevels; but you =must read my advice with the"time" thing firmly in mind - note that both =Taylor and John Channer tonight say how time is of the essence. In my = But I have to agree with Taylor wholeheartedly about the quality and =care in adjusting you equipment. It will, as he says, pay you back =multi-fold. We ARE trying to be helpful! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0A370.4B5E26A0 Jim Be very, very wary of him who says" = room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of = argument. make = as well as mine. If you are going to fall into this logical fallacy of = rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them = micro-bevels; but you must read my advice with the"time" thing firmly in = note that both Taylor and John Channer tonight say how time is of the = But I have to agree with Taylor = about the quality and care in adjusting you equipment. It will, as he = you back multi-fold. We ARE trying to be =helpful! Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0A370.4B5E26A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 2 06:35:14 2001 f22CZEe28700 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 06:28:12 -0600 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I really agree Al, as my early years of fishing were through the words ofJohn Alden Knight, Ray Bergman, and the like. Down here in So. Texas, we'llalways be bass fisher persons, and for the life of me, I'd still like to tryone of Knights 10.5' bugging rods. I was just lucky to find PHY at 18 !GMA from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Mar 2 06:54:55 2001 f22Csse29165 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. Tony, I guess that for the most part you are correct in implying that people buya name to make up for lack of experience and reputation. I do believe thatthere are some exceptions. One example is Mike Sinclair who has bought theDivine name and Trade Marks and hopes to begin reproducing Divine Rods.Clearly Divine does not have the panache of Payne or Dickerson but the fewof us who collect them, do love them! Mike would like there to be morebelievers out there. I just hope that he can do this and break even. -Doug At 06:43 PM 3/2/01 +0800, Tony Young wrote:I don't see much of what you mention here but I read and detect it a lot incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "name"? I'm not*really*asking because I think I know but it really makes you wonder doesn't it? Tony At 07:18 AM 3/2/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote:Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rodcompanies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like theyshould be? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials orbody of work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name doesnot make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of a Dickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had changed their names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if given the rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production with quality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics once again.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in the wrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from GriffinJohn@msn.com Fri Mar 2 07:45:53 2001 f22Djqe29969 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:45:48 -0800 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. =_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620" FILETIME=[16B4B870:01C0A31F] ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620 Unfortunately, the ultimate outcome may simply be a devaluation of ALL Le=onard rods. Look at the track record of tackle companies that have been s= Mo bettah' if the new Leonard outfit focuses on the high end niche - the =quality of the product will then ultimately prevail. Witness the semi ann=ual rebirth of the "new" Indian Motorcycle Company. John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I don't see much of what you mention here but I read and detect it a lot =incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "name"? I'm not *reall=y*asking because I think I know but it really makes you wonder doesn't it? Tony At 07:18 AM 3/2/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote:Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod compa=niesseem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive orapparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like they sho=uldbe? The prices seem confiscatory as the new owner has no credentials or =bodyof work to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name does n=otmake a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door of=aDickerson, Payne, Young, or Gillum as an example even if they had change=dtheir names half dozen times. I can think of twenty builders that ,if gi=venthe rights to the Leonard name , would have them in full production withquality standards that would have done great credit to the name. As the famous philosophers Ren&Stimpy said..... let your mind drift.... A world full of vigorous rod companies turning out the classics onceagain.... a widely varied group of individuals building rods with their =own singular rodbuilders did. Oh Rats!!! Back to reality. It makes me a little sad. Perhaps born in t=hewrong half century? A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com /************************************************************************=*/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /************************************************************************=*/Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620 Unfortunately,=the ultimate outcome may simply be a devaluation of ALL Leonard rods. Lo=ok at the track record of tackle companies that have been sold in name on=ly to the off shore mass production houses. Mo bettah' if the=new Leonard outfit focuses on the high end niche - the quality of the pr=oduct will then ultimately prevail. Witness the semi annual rebirth of th= John ----- Original Message ----- = Co. =I don't see much of what you mention here but I read andd=etect it a lot incomments and you're right, why do these guys buy a "=name"? I'm not *really*asking because I think I know but it really ma=kes you wonder doesn't it?TonyAt 07:18 AM3/2/01 +000= = see= work=to judge them by. No inventory of even a few rods. A name doesnot&g=t;make a rod, I think that anglers would have beaten a path to the door o= Ren= ;ideas and different goals, turnind out the 2-4 thousand that most of the= to= download of MSN=Explorer at *************************************************/AVYoungVis=it my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlThe node=has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effortwasted.Thi=s strip is nowtrash./*******************************************=******************************/Get your FREE download of MSNExplo=rer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0A2F5.EADB4620-- from Canerods@aol.com Fri Mar 2 08:34:07 2001 f22EY6e01881 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. --part1_a.98ab9fc.27d1094d_boundary In a message dated 3/1/01 11:19:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like theyshould AJ, Are you taking steps to prevent the resurgence of the AJ Thramer Rod Co.in the year 2099? Don B. --part1_a.98ab9fc.27d1094d_boundary In a message dated3/1/01 11:19:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: Why is it that so many(not all-read disclaimer)of the old line rod companies seem to be operated by moneied interests without the vigor, drive or apparent skill needed to operate the reconstructed concern like theyshould be? AJ, Are you taking steps to prevent the resurgence of the AJ Thramer RodCo. in the year 2099? Don B. --part1_a.98ab9fc.27d1094d_boundary-- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Mar 2 09:11:29 2001 f22FBSe03608 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co If you guys want to see some of this history, go take a look at TheBamboo Timeline at The Bamboo Fly Rod web site(http://www.thebambooflyrod.com/) A lot of this information isavailable there. Brian Creek wrote: My understanding is that they went belly up in the '70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stash of cane at an IRS saleforcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taperpatternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone is selling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and a different beveler. Brian -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 09:25:09 2001 f22FP8e04780 2001 07:25:10 PST Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co well! that's something for my subscription money. --- Todd Talsma wrote:If you guys want to see some of this history, gotake a look at TheBamboo Timeline at The Bamboo Fly Rod web site(http://www.thebambooflyrod.com/) A lot of thisinformation isavailable there. Brian Creek wrote: My understanding is that they went belly up in the'70s and Marc Aaronerbought the beveler, misc tooling and a good stashof cane at an IRS sale forcheap. I don't know what happened to the name. The original taper patternswere lost in the famous fire, so if someone isselling Leonards now, I guessthey are doing it with re-created tapers and adifferent beveler. Brian -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Mar 2 09:25:33 2001 f22FPWe04844 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: sharpening This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A32D.55DF74DC I took Taylor's comments for exactly what they were worth. An expressionofa valid opinion about the utility of microbevels, unsupported by anyargument, and accompanied by an unsupportable statement that there wasnoroom for debate. I appreciate his taking the time to respond, but wish hewould have tried to explain more and exhort less. I visit bulletin boardsoccupied by people who make fine furniture for a living. And among thatgroup the "microbevel debate" rages on. I've reached my own conclusions onthe issue as it relates to my woodworking tools. That is why I posted tothe rodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as the issue relates torodmaking. People constantly claim the microbevel saves time in honing. But some ofthe woodworkers who don't microibevel say that they stopped doing soprecisely because they hone their irons so often. I think the reasoning isthat a micro bevel saves time for a few honings, but after that you need toregrind the main bevel which is time consuming. If you sharpen often, thenyou will be spending more time regrinding the main bevel than if you simplyhoned the main bevel every time you honed. I believe the second argument isthat if you use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use a honing guide, whilewithout the microbevel you can hone freehand (if you are reasonablyskilled). Honing freehand saves the time spent setting up the honing guide,and, if you use waterstones, there is some belief that the honing guidesthat ride on the stone will dish it out sooner. I don't know the answers asthey apply in rodmaking, that's why I asked. -----Original Message----- Subject: sharpening Jim Be very, very wary of him who says" there is no room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of room for argument. And I know several people who make really fine handmade furniture, and Ican tell you that their planes do not cut as well as mine. If you are goingto fall into this logical fallacy of "ask someone who knows", at least asksomeone who makes fine bamboo rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them probably use micro-bevels; but you mustread my advice with the"time" thing firmly in mind - note that both Taylorand John Channer tonight say how time is of the essence. In my case, it'snot, and I think single bevels are tidier. But I have to agree with Taylor wholeheartedly about the quality and care inadjusting you equipment. It will, as he says, pay you back multi-fold. We ARE trying to be helpful! Peter ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A32D.55DF74DC I took of a valid opinion about the utility of microbevels, unsupported by there was wish among why I posted to the rodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as the issue relates to rodmaking. People woodworkers who don't microibevel say that they stopped doing so precisely micro bevel saves time for a few honings, but after that you need to regrindthe be spending more time regrinding the main bevel than if you simply honed themain you use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use a honing guide, while without the Honing freehand saves the time spent setting up the honing guide, and, if you use waterstones, there is some belief that the honing guides that ride on thestone rodmaking, that's why I asked. -----Original Message-----From: Peter McKean 02, 2001 Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:sharpeningJim Be very, very wary of him who says" thereis no room for argument". I, for instance, have 20 gigabytes of room argument. really not cut as well as mine. If you are going to fall into this logical fallacy of bamboo rods. Actually, to be fair, most of them probablyuse micro-bevels; but you must read my advice with the"time" thing firmly inmind - note that both Taylor and John Channer tonight say how time is of the But I have to agree with Taylorwholeheartedly about the quality and care in adjusting you equipment. It will, as he says, pay you back multi-fold. We ARE trying to be helpful! Peter ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A32D.55DF74DC-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 2 09:31:24 2001 f22FVNe05350 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:31:13 -0800 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. Doug,Any report on how Mike Sinclair is doing, physically? His website mentionsthat he has been having some serious health difficulties... Harry "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: I do believe thatthere are some exceptions. One example is Mike Sinclair who has boughttheDivine name and Trade Marks and hopes to begin reproducing Divine Rods. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri Mar 2 10:03:17 2001 f22G3Ge06852 fwd03.sul.t-online.com Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:24:49 +0100 Subject: Paul Young Spinning Rod Tapers Hi Gary, just one question about the measurement of the spinning rod tapers: Arethey measured over varnish - I guess so. Am I right? Regards Ralf from Germany from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 2 10:08:24 2001 f22G8Ne07142 Subject: RE: sharpening "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" There was a time when I had to put a micro bevel on all my hand tools such asplane irons and chisels because the leading hand was adamant a micro bevelsaved sharpening time and time being money not having a micro bevel wastantamount to steeling from the company. The leading hand was a grizzledoldScot by the name of Kieth who was said to have been in the French ForeignLegion then a mercenary and wore a beanie (wool cap) all year round which isthe height of stupidity if you happen to live in Brisbane as he does.Would you argue with such a bloke?After I served my time with Keith and was able to sharpen my edges as Iliked Istopped using micro bevels because as James mentions doing so does tend tomeanyou need to use a honing guide which I hate using. I prefer to using a large diameter grinding wheel grind a slight hollow in thecutting face which is unavoidable and leave this hollow as long as I can.Doingthis serves two purposes. Firstly there is less metal to grind on the wetstonebecause you only have the very edge and the heel of the edge to grind.Secondlythe hollow acts as a honing guide because you can easily see if the edge hasbeen ground properly by looking at the state of the hollow. Once the hollowdisappears I re grind. If I'm feeling a bit lazy I'll just touch up the edgeusing a micro bevel and get a little more out of the iron before re grinding. wheelwhich puts a really keen edge on cutting blades. I don't know if James Krenov is still held in high regard in the fine cabinetmaking scene but just consulting my copy of "The Fine Art Of Cabinet Making"Isee he doesn't advocate micro bevels by the omission of mentioning thetechnique though he does advocate the method of grinding a hollow. Maybemicrobevels weren't being used much in the 70's when the book was published?It must be 20 years since opening that book last and the price tag of $9.95confirms its vintage so I can't remember if I read about this before orafter Istarted hollow grinding but IMHO it's a better way to go than micro bevelsbothcutting wise and time. Obviously there are fans on both sides which indicatesneither one really is better in the long run. It's very easy to field test andsee which you prefer. Tony At 08:27 AM 3/2/01 -0700, James Piotrowski wrote: I took Taylor's comments for exactly what they were worth. Anexpression ofa valid opinion about the utility of microbevels, unsupported by anyargument, and accompanied by an unsupportable statement that there wasnoroom for debate. I appreciate his taking the time to respond, but wish hewould have tried to explain more and exhort less. I visit bulletin boardsoccupied by people who make fine furniture for a living. And among thatgroup the "microbevel debate" rages on. I've reached my own conclusionsonthe issue as it relates to my woodworking tools. That is why I posted totherodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as the issue relates torodmaking. People constantly claim the microbevel saves time in honing. But some ofthewoodworkers who don't microibevel say that they stopped doing sopreciselybecause they hone their irons so often. I think the reasoning is that amicro bevel saves time for a few honings, but after that you need toregrindthe main bevel which is time consuming. If you sharpen often, then you willbe spending more time regrinding the main bevel than if you simply honedthemain bevel every time you honed. I believe the second argument is that ifyou use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use a honing guide, while withoutthemicrobevel you can hone freehand (if you are reasonably skilled). Honingfreehand saves the time spent setting up the honing guide, and, if you usewaterstones, there is some belief that the honing guides that ride on thestone will dish it out sooner. I don't know the answers as they apply inrodmaking, that's why I asked. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Mar 2 10:36:23 2001 f22GaMe08469 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 08:36:04 -0800 Subject: Leonard 37 1/2 ACM f22GaMe08470 Shawn, Here is an ACM taper I measured a couple years ago. It is a 6 1/2' 2 pc. I'lllist the three measurements, and both tips. I've not been able to make therod because quite simply the tip dimensions are too tiny for my forms. These measurements were taken over varnish which I estimated at .004"total so I would take .002" off of each strip dimension. Chris 1" .042,.043,.044 .042,.043,.0465" .055,.057,.058 .053,.054,.05510" .070,.071,guide .071,.073,guide15" .088,.088,.089 .086,.088,.09020" .107,.107,.108 .101,.101,.10125" .114,.114,.116 .110,.110,.11230" .129,.131,.132 .123,.124,.12435" .134,.136,.136 .132,.133,.13541" .149,.149,.149 45" .163,.163,.16350" .178,.179,.18155" .198,.198,.19960" .215,.218,.21965" .224,.228,.22868" .241,.244,.244 Swell begins70" about .310 (hookkeeper wrap here) from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 10:43:13 2001 f22GhCe08883 2001 08:43:14 PST Subject: RE: sharpening tony, your approach describes mine as well as any. timothy --- Tony Young wrote:There was a time when I had to put a micro bevel onall my hand tools such asplane irons and chisels because the leading hand wasadamant a micro bevelsaved sharpening time and time being money nothaving a micro bevel wastantamount to steeling from the company. The leadinghand was a grizzled oldScot by the name of Kieth who was said to have beenin the French ForeignLegion then a mercenary and wore a beanie (wool cap)all year round which isthe height of stupidity if you happen to live inBrisbane as he does.Would you argue with such a bloke?After I served my time with Keith and was able tosharpen my edges as Iliked Istopped using micro bevels because as James mentionsdoing so does tend tomeanyou need to use a honing guide which I hate using. I prefer to using a large diameter grinding wheelgrind a slight hollow in thecutting face which is unavoidable and leave thishollow as long as I can.Doingthis serves two purposes. Firstly there is lessmetal to grind on the wetstonebecause you only have the very edge and the heel ofthe edge to grind.Secondlythe hollow acts as a honing guide because you caneasily see if the edge hasbeen ground properly by looking at the state of thehollow. Once the hollowdisappears I re grind. If I'm feeling a bit lazyI'll just touch up the edgeusing a micro bevel and get a little more out of theiron before re grinding. diamond past on a leatherwheelwhich puts a really keen edge on cutting blades. I don't know if James Krenov is still held in highregard in the fine cabinetmaking scene but just consulting my copy of "TheFine Art Of Cabinet Making" Isee he doesn't advocate micro bevels by the omissionof mentioning thetechnique though he does advocate the method ofgrinding a hollow. Maybe microbevels weren't being used much in the 70's when thebook was published?It must be 20 years since opening that book last andthe price tag of $9.95confirms its vintage so I can't remember if I readabout this before orafter Istarted hollow grinding but IMHO it's a better wayto go than micro bevelsbothcutting wise and time. Obviously there are fans onboth sides which indicatesneither one really is better in the long run. It'svery easy to field test andsee which you prefer. Tony At 08:27 AM 3/2/01 -0700, James Piotrowski wrote: I took Taylor's comments for exactly what theywere worth. An expression ofa valid opinion about the utility of microbevels,unsupported by anyargument, and accompanied by an unsupportablestatement that there was noroom for debate. I appreciate his taking the timeto respond, but wish hewould have tried to explain more and exhort less. I visit bulletin boardsoccupied by people who make fine furniture for aliving. And among thatgroup the "microbevel debate" rages on. I'vereached my own conclusions onthe issue as it relates to my woodworking tools. That is why I posted totherodmakers list, to start forming an opinion as theissue relates torodmaking. People constantly claim the microbevel saves timein honing. But some ofthewoodworkers who don't microibevel say that theystopped doing so preciselybecause they hone their irons so often. I thinkthe reasoning is that amicro bevel saves time for a few honings, butafter that you need to regrindthe main bevel which is time consuming. If yousharpen often, then you willbe spending more time regrinding the main bevelthan if you simply honed themain bevel every time you honed. I believe thesecond argument is that ifyou use a microbevel you almost HAVE TO use ahoning guide, while withoutthemicrobevel you can hone freehand (if you arereasonably skilled). Honingfreehand saves the time spent setting up thehoning guide, and, if you usewaterstones, there is some belief that the honingguides that ride on thestone will dish it out sooner. I don't know theanswers as they apply inrodmaking, that's why I asked. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Fri Mar 2 10:56:40 2001 f22Gude09430 Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co --part1_52.7f26a50.27d12abb_boundary In a message dated 3/2/01 7:25:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: That chart will be in the next BFR issue. Written tongue in cheek. Don Burns --part1_52.7f26a50.27d12abb_boundary In a message dated3/2/01 7:25:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: well! that'ssomething for my subscription money. That chart will be in the next BFR issue. Written tongue in cheek. Don Burns --part1_52.7f26a50.27d12abb_boundary-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 11:02:13 2001 f22H2Ce09843 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0A2AB.AA4611C0 I think I wouldn't mind being associated with a projectto revitalize a new rod. But It would have to be like this NEW Leonard rod MADE BY PARTICULAR MAKERIN THE TRADITION OF H.L. LEONARDBut I would NEVER want to build a rod andcall it a Leonard as if to say, we were one in the same.I want my rods to be valued some day( Not just for themoney's sake either) and when that day comes(if it comesat all) I want my name on those rods. I would probably not buy a name. = think they should be absolutely honest about the origins ofthe rod and it's maker. That was one of the first things I see if this is the case.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0A2AB.AA4611C0 I think I wouldn't mind being = projectto revitalize a new rod. But It would = like thisas an example: Emphasizing the words NEW Leonard rod MADE BY MAKER OF = LEONARD = andcall it a Leonard as if to say, we were = same.I want my rods to be valued some day(= themoney's sake either) and when that day= comesat all) I want my name on those rods. I= probably not buy a name. For those who do I think that's OK, but =Ithink they should be absolutely honest= origins ofthe rod and it's maker. That was one of= things Ilearned. I am planning to look over the = site to see if this is the case.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0A2AB.AA4611C0-- from bluemoon@kitemail.com Fri Mar 2 11:02:24 2001 f22H2Me09874 Subject: Norman Agutters blanks ? Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks sounds too lowto be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm _____________________________________________________________KiteLife.com, The Internet Magazinehttp://www.kitelife.com from parataper@hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 11:19:58 2001 f22HJme10860 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:19:44 -0800 HTTP; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:19:44 GMT Subject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard Co FILETIME=[F9B444C0:01C0A33C] I spoke to Brian McGrath who owns HLL name. He seems like a nice guy with good knowledge of the company, and rods in general. Although I have not seen one, Brian tells me that HLL is producing very limited number (20)of high quality rods a year, more for the tradition of the name than for any profit. This doesn't sound like a profit driven venture to me. MP From: Jan Nystråm CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Mills & Sons - HL Leonard CoDate: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 21:51:33 +0100 Hi Darrel, I suppose you mean the H.L. Leonard Co i Texas? There is a website offering"original" Leonard rods. I do not know if this person bought the Leonardcompany or not but it really seems that way when reading on the website. Hereis the link to see for yourself.http://www.hlleonard.com/I tried to email this company a year ago and did not receive any answerthough. Thanks,Jan Nystrom Darrell Lee wrote: Is the William Mills & Sons of New York (tackle house that used to own theHL Leonard Co.) still in business? Inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 11:50:11 2001 f22HoAe12367 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A2B2.5FD13B40 Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods Devine (I think?) becausehe has the Devine trade name. I don't think he is calling them Fred =Devine rods. To me there is a difference.One implying that Devine has a new owner, the other that Fred Divine has =risen from the grave to make rods again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonard site I seen :(H.L. Leonard) to me this is miss leading.If my daughter (someday after my death) starts makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I think. But not toput Anthony Miller on the rods but her name instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, but I think it is one wayof recognizing the original maker.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A2B2.5FD13B40 Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods = he has the Devine trade name. I don't = difference.One implying that Devine has a new = again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonardsite = : leading.If my daughter (someday after mydeath) = makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I = put Anthony Miller on the rods but her = instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, = it is one wayof recognizing the original =maker.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A2B2.5FD13B40-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Mar 2 11:53:00 2001 f22Hqxe12581 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:52:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? Agutters USED to have a terrible name for quality,delivery after salesservice etc etcThey were then taken over by Norman and I am led to believe they havemade many improvements and are now a pleasure to deal with.One really competitive,high quality service with an enviable reputation former Partridge employee ( Colin Young_)and are available eitherimpregnated or 'plain'.You could dop a lot worse than try this firm !Their prices are very very good and their blanks are used by many of theUK rod and US 'assembly'companies.No financial interest,,,,,blah,blah........Paul Ken McNeill wrote: Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks sounds toolow to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm _____________________________________________________________KiteLife.com, The Internet Magazinehttp://www.kitelife.com from parataper@hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 12:17:38 2001 f22IHbe13465 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:17:33 -0800 HTTP; Fri, 02 Mar 2001 18:17:33 GMT Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. FILETIME=[0D577440:01C0A345] When did Hirum Leonard die? I don't know, but I would guess the early 1900's. Does this make every Leonard rod since then a fake? When Tom Maxwell was there, were the rods of a lower quality than when HL built them himself? The company was still not owned by the founder at that time. A name does mean a lot, but a Ford can still be a Ford, even if GM owns it. MP From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co.Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:47:36 -0500 Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods Devine (I think?) becausehe has the Devine trade name. I don't think he is calling them Fred Devine rods. To me there is a difference.One implying that Devine has a new owner, the other that Fred Divine has risen from the grave to make rods again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonard site I seen :(H.L. Leonard) to me this is miss leading.If my daughter (someday after my death) starts makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I think. But not toput Anthony Miller on the rods but her name instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, but I think it is one wayof recognizing the original maker.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 12:40:38 2001 f22Iebe14340 Subject: Re:New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0A2B9.6BC9A340 I think your right MarkIt doesn't make it a fake.But be honest hereIf you had your choice of owning one by Hirumor one made by Tom which one would you pick?I know what my honest decision would be.And let me tell you that my decision might just be a little money driven =LOLBest Regards (all in fun)Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0A2B9.6BC9A340 I think your right MarkIt doesn't make it afake.But be honest hereIf you had your choice of owning one by= Hirumor one made by Tom which one would pick?I know what my honest decision be. Best Regards (all infun)Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0A2B9.6BC9A340-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 12:52:23 2001 f22IqNe14779 Subject: Re:New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A2BB.103581A0 One more thing .Think about this for a second.If you made rods for me ,under my name, howdo you think it might go. Would you have total creative freedomor do you think maybe I would insist on my standards?I have worked for allot of people in my life and rarelyhave they let me do it my way. So if Tom made rods forLeonard, I'm sure that there was the Leonard influence.Unlike if you or I made Leonard rods today the only influencewe have is from books and other modern makers.Just food for thought.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A2BB.103581A0 One more thing .Think about this for a =second.If you made rods for me ,under myname, = howdo you think it might go. Would you = creative freedomor do you think maybe I would insist on= standards?I have worked for allot of people in my = rarelyhave they let me do it my way. So if = forLeonard, I'm sure that there was the = influence.Unlike if you or I made Leonard rods = influencewe have is from books and other makers.Just food for thought.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0A2BB.103581A0-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 13:05:09 2001 f22J53e15460 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0A2BC.D59902E0 Before it starts LOLI didn't mean to imply that anyone would want to work for me.LOLor want to make my rods LOLTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0A2BC.D59902E0 Before it starts LOLI didn't mean to imply that anyone = or want to make my rods =LOLTonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C0A2BC.D59902E0-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Fri Mar 2 13:21:44 2001 f22JLhe16315 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:21:39 -0800 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. So what is in a name? H. L. Leonard on a fly rod is a company name, abrand if you will. It does not mean ol' Hiram made it himself. History baresout the fact Leonard employed many talented craftsmen. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:47 PMSubject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Also one difference :Sinclair I think is calling his rods Devine (I think?) becausehe has the Devine trade name. I don't think he is calling them Fred Devinerods. To me there is a difference.One implying that Devine has a new owner, the other that Fred Divine hasrisen from the grave to make rods again.LOLBut when I went to the NEW Leonard site I seen :(H.L. Leonard) to me this is miss leading.If my daughter (someday after my death) starts makingMiller rods that would be appropriate I think. But not toput Anthony Miller on the rods but her name instead.It seems like a small detail ,I know, but I think it is one wayof recognizing the original maker.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 2 13:39:58 2001 f22Jdve17110 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:31:29 -0600 Subject: Re: The New Leonard Rod Co. I looked at the site, and as far as i can see it's all plastic ! THAT'S NOT LEONARD !GMA from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 13:46:57 2001 f22Jkue17637 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0A2C2.AEE0D820 RichardOK Lets take an Orvis rod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan worth more thanthe ones that are not? If you are trying to convince me that maker and =name mean nothing. Than why do we heredrop more names than they do in Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makers went on to form there own company's =of which there rods are not valued as high. Leonard that the rod had the Leonard name on it? Of course it is and =that is why a person would buy a name. Just because the market makes =anything with the name Leonardon it valuable, doesn't mean it is. I'm sure you have heard the term =(forced collectable) and if all rods are created equally than why do we =take the time to discuss how one rod casts better than another. I'm not =saying that the older masters made better rods(maybe they did, maybe =they didn't) but we tend to think one made by Leonard himself is more =valuable than not. Once again best regards and food for thought. (all in =fun)Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0A2C2.AEE0D820 RichardOK Lets take an Orvisrod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan= thanthe ones that are not? If you are = convince me that maker and name mean nothing. Than why do we =here Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makerswent = there own company's of which there rods are not valued as =high.Why is that? Could it be that when they= Leonard that the rod had the Leonard = market makes anything with the name Leonard mean = sure you have heard the term (forced collectable) and if all rods are = equally than why do we take the time to discuss how one rod casts better = another. I'm not saying that the older masters made better rods(maybe = maybe they didn't) but we tend to think one made by Leonard himself is = valuable than not. Once again best regards and food for thought. (all in = fun)Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C0A2C2.AEE0D820-- from dryfly@erols.com Fri Mar 2 13:47:21 2001 f22JlLe17722 ([207.172.206.201] helo=erols.com) Subject: New Leonard Rod Company I think we've kicked this topic around long enough. Hitting the deletekey so often is starting to hurt my fingers more than holding stripswhile planing. from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 13:59:02 2001 f22Jx2e18483 Subject: Talking rodmaking This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0A2C4.5F7A1560 I wanted to talk rodmaking 2 days ago LOL discussion. Just my luck as soon as I get interestedin it, it's gonna end LOL unlike the wandering tool threadabout a month ago LOL ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0A2C4.5F7A1560 I wanted to talk rodmaking 2 days LOLBut I got bored and thought I would get= discussion. Just my luck as soon as I = interested wandering tool threadabout a month ago LOLTony = ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0A2C4.5F7A1560-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 14:52:27 2001 f22KqRe21129 Subject: Re: Talking rodmaking This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A2CB.D4261420 Thanks John!Your right it is important matter.Just the other day I seen a guy on ebay sellinga Leonard reel seat.(it looked new and he sold it as new)My point is: in the wrong hands someone could put thaton some clunker and sell it to some one who doesn't know any better. ( =BTW I was slightly ripped off when I got into this some years ago) so I =know how it feels.) I'm sure no reputable maker would do this , but this =is an imperfect world and there are people who would. I would have used =the part as a replacement on a Leonard restoration. And let the buyer =know it was a replacement part.But when your talkinga couple thousand for a rod ,someone is bound to take advantage of = Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A2CB.D4261420 Thanks John!Your right it is important =matter.Just the other day I seen a guy on ebay= sellinga Leonard reel seat.(it looked new and = as new)My point is: in the wrong hands someone= thaton some clunker and sell it to some one= know any better. ( BTW I was slightly ripped off when I got into this = ago) so I know how it feels.) I'm sure no reputable maker would do this = have = part as a replacement on a Leonard restoration. And let the buyer know = replacement part.But when your talkinga couple thousand for a rod ,someone is= would do that. TonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A2CB.D4261420-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 2 15:15:53 2001 f22LFqe21976 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: New Leonard Rod Co. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0A31A.C418A300 Actually, from what I've read, Wes built few rods himself. At Orvis and atSouth Bend he was the production manager. Rods Wes Jordan actually builtwere Cross rods... Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:44 PM Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. RichardOK Lets take an Orvis rod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan worth more thanthe ones that are not? If you are trying to convince me that maker andname mean nothing. Than why do we heredrop more names than they do in Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makers went on to form there own company'sofwhich there rods are not valued as high.Why is that? Could it be that when they made rods forLeonard that the rod had the Leonard name on it? Of course it is and thatis why a person would buy a name. Just because the market makes anythingwith the name Leonardon it valuable, doesn't mean it is. I'm sure you have heard the term(forced collectable) and if all rods are created equally than why do we takethe time to discuss how one rod casts better than another. I'm not sayingthat the older masters made better rods(maybe they did, maybe they didn't)but we tend to think one made by Leonard himself is more valuable than not.Once again best regards and food for thought. (all in fun)Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0A31A.C418A300 Actually, from what I've read, Wes built few rods himself. At = at South Bend he was the production manager. Rods Wes Jordan actually = Cross rods... Darrellwww.vfish.net MillerSent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:44 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New Leonard Co.RichardOK Lets take an Orvis =rod.Why are the ones made by Wes Jordan= thanthe ones that are not? If you are = convince me that maker and name mean nothing. Than why do we =here Hollywood?LOLAnd allot of those talented makers = high.Why is that? Could it be that when = Leonard that the rod had the Leonard= the market makes anything with the name Leonard I'm sure you have heard the term (forced collectable) and if all rods = created equally than why do we take the time to discuss how one rod = better than another. I'm not saying that the older masters made better = rods(maybe they did, maybe they didn't) but we tend to think one made = Leonard himself is more valuable than not. Once again best regards and = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0A31A.C418A300-- from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Mar 2 15:58:44 2001 f22Lwhe23802 0500 Subject: Where to fish in theFlorida Keys Hi...I may be taking my nephews fishng in the keys (13 and 14 years old). Itwould be mid to late summer (ugh - hot!). Anyone know of any guides downthere for inshore fish (flats type). I can find stuff in magazines but wouldrather get a real recommendation. Thanks, Andy from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Mar 2 16:14:43 2001 f22MEge24643 Subject: Re: Leonard rods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A2D7.4EC9F2E0 Hi BrianI had no intent to discredit any one. My apologiesif that is how it sounded.If you look at it from my side of the fence,its kind of a hard pill to =swallow because I'm a rodmaker trying to sell rods too.(just like you) =and when someone might pick your rod over mine I can except that in most =cases. But when they pick a new rod built by your company over my rod on =the basis of the Leonard name(well what can I say). I think it's a good = maybe you studied under these great makers and you might blow me away in=making rods. But when the buyer buys your rod or mine , I sure hope theyconsider my rods even though they don't say Leonard on them. I have =spent countless hours studying makers, And I too feel I offer quality. I =hope I have not made an enemy here.I would love to see your rods.And I have always talked up quality makers. And would have no problem in =complimenting your work also.Best regardsTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A2D7.4EC9F2E0 Hi BrianI had no intent to discredit any one. = apologiesif that is how itsounded. = fence,its kind of a hard pill to swallow because I'm a rodmaker trying = rods too.(just like you) and when someone might pick your rod over mine = except that in most cases. But when they pick a new rod built by your = over my rod on the basis of the Leonard name(well what can I say). I = a good idea to protect the name. Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous = maybe you studied under these great makers and you might blow me away in= theyconsider my rods even though theydon't = rods.And I have always talked up quality = also.Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A2D7.4EC9F2E0-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 2 16:25:17 2001 f22MPGe25241 Subject: Re: Hello there! Mike,I have some spare cane I could let you have to play around with. I am in So. Bend, IN if you are interested.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 2 17:22:21 2001 f22NMGe27065 Subject: Sanding blocks List,To all the guys who have recently ordered sanding blocks. I have been overwhelmed with the response for blocks. I have to make some new ones so please be patient. I ran out of initial supply and will be making more this week.Bret from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 2 18:54:45 2001 f230sie28821 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Leonard ACM tapers I am looking for information on the ACM tapers and the tapers themselves.I knowthat they were named after Arthur C. Mills and were designed to be fast dryflyaction rods. What I was wondering was what were the different sizes itcame in? Iknow there was a 37 and a 38, what other sizes/wts did it come in? They arehard tofind info on.Can anyone tell me about the appearance of the rods. Anyone who hascast one, canI have your opinion? I would love a picture if anyone has one.I have the 37 taper but would like some of the other tapers if anyone hasthem. Thanks, Shawn from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:12:06 2001 f231C1e29332 Subject: Re: Leonard 50 In a message dated 03/02/2001 1:14:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, dnorl@qwest.net writes: Hi Dave,I have a Leonard 50DF in my shop at the moment. I'm making two new tips for it. The blanks have been stripped. Here are the dimensions: 0- .0725- .09210- .10715- .12620- .14025- .15330- .16335- .17540- .19045- .21050- .22055- .23060- .24065- .25070- .28375- .29780- .30685- .31590- .32595- .32596- .325 I measured all three sides and then averaged themThere is no varnish on these blanks, so these are the true measurements. Hope this helps, Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Canerods@aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:16:50 2001 f231Goe29581 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,mail188938@pop.net --part1_87.794046c.27d19fd3_boundary In a message dated 3/2/01 10:18:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, parataper@hotmail.com writes: When did Hirum Leonard die? I don't know, but I would guess the early 1900's. Does this make every Leonard rod since then a fake? When Tom Maxwell was there, were the rods of a lower quality than when HL builtthem himself? The company was still not owned by the founder at that time. A name does mean a lot, but a Ford can still be a Ford, even if GM owns it. MP There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Fly rods rolled out 100% completed out of the Heddon plant. Want to compare prices between a Payne and a Heddon that differ only bythe characters written by the same person using the same pen on two rodshafts? Don Burns --part1_87.794046c.27d19fd3_boundary In a message dated3/2/01 10:18:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, parataper@hotmail.com writes: early Maxwell was there, were the rods of a lower quality than when HL builtthem name does mean a lot, but a Ford can still be a Ford, even if GM owns it. MP There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Fly rods rolled out100% completed out of the Heddon plant. Want to compare prices between a Payne and a Heddon that differ only characters written by the same person using the same pen on two rodshafts? Don Burns --part1_87.794046c.27d19fd3_boundary-- from beadman@mac.com Fri Mar 2 19:47:40 2001 f231lde00276 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? At 9:02 AM -0800 , 3/2/01, Ken McNeill wrote about Norman Aguttersblanks ?Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks sounds too low to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm On this site, they refer to "As rodmakers we have sought perfection in the peformance of a Split Bamboo Fly Rod (Split Cane or Built Cane)." I understand what "split cane" is, but what is "built cane"? Nodeless, maybe? Claude from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 2 20:19:39 2001 f232JYe01001 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Leonard ACM tapers Hi Shawn,I fished a 38 ACM almost exclusively for 3 years between 1973 and '76. It was one of the best rods I ever owned. I now fish a 38H quite a bitand love it. The 38H is a more versatile rod. When the 38ACM startedto loose it and that was about 45' the 38H was still doing very well. The "functional delicacy" of the 38ACM was unparalled. I hope I getthis point across It was strong enough to be more than a toy (36L) yetdelicate enough to make casting at 30' feet a true joy. Shawn, I'm notsure where you are from, but if you know any of the Eastern Rivers Ithink I can give you a feel for the rod. It was a disaster on theBeaverkill. With the big water and the wind at times, there were alwaysfish that you couldn't get to. It was maginal on the Battenkill. Anevening with sulfur spinners with no wind was a delight but a caddishatch in the middle of the day with a little wind and you were trying tooverpower the rod. A little smaller than the Battenkill and it was init's own. Absolutely perfect for the Broadhead in the Pocono's andperfect for the Willowemoc. Leave the wet flies in the box except forsofthackles, where it was wnoderful. A true "lady" in design. God, asmuch as I love my 38H, I do miss that rod. If you gave me a choicebetween the 38ACM, 38L, and 38H. I would have to pick the 38H becauseof it's versatility but if you asked me what is the best taper....Iwould say the 38ACM. You bring back allot of memmories Shawn. The lasttime I fished the rod was on the Blackberry River in Conn. On leavingthe stream the tip looked a little bent. Like a fool I grabed itbetween my fingers and "pop"...broke one of the tips. I was sodistraught that the freind I was fishing with drove 20 miles later inthe day to give me a gift of Ed Zern's "To Hell with Fishing".....Rich Shawn Pineo wrote: I am looking for information on the ACM tapers and the tapersthemselves. I knowthat they were named after Arthur C. Mills and were designed to be fastdry flyaction rods. What I was wondering was what were the different sizes itcame in? Iknow there was a 37 and a 38, what other sizes/wts did it come in? Theyare hard tofind info on.Can anyone tell me about the appearance of the rods. Anyone who hascast one, canI have your opinion? I would love a picture if anyone has one.I have the 37 taper but would like some of the other tapers if anyonehas them. Thanks, Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 2 20:39:22 2001 f232dLe01394 Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:39:16 -0800 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Don,What's this about Paynes and Heddons? Don't rememberhearing that before. Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote: There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Flyrods rolled out 100%completed out of the Heddon plant. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 2 20:56:35 2001 f232uZe02026 Subject: Saw this on eBay Y'all,Bob Nunley will probably get mad at me for posting thishere, but I thought some of you might want to at least seethe pictures. Bob's cane ferruled two weight rod is forsale on eBay and you owe it to yourself to at least take alook. I've had a chance to play with this little rod andit's pretty doggone nice. I get no kickback on this, and Bob has no idea I'm doingit. So direct all your wrath at me. I can handle it.Here's the url:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1116481658 Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 2 21:10:18 2001 f233AIe02461 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Don,I don't think I ever heard that one before but it would not surprise me. After all they (Heddon) did make a lot of rods for PHY Rod Co. as well as others.. I would love to see proof of this as I find it very interesting.Bret from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 2 21:11:30 2001 f233BUe02618 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Saw this on eBay Harry, Neat! I wish it had a few closeups of the ferrule. Marty Y'all,Bob Nunley will probably get mad at me for posting thishere, but I thought some of you might want to at least seethe pictures. Bob's cane ferruled two weight rod is forsale on eBay and you owe it to yourself to at least take alook. I've had a chance to play with this little rod andit's pretty doggone nice. I get no kickback on this, and Bob has no idea I'm doingit. So direct all your wrath at me. I can handle it.Here's the url:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1116481658 Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from saweiss@flash.net Fri Mar 2 21:17:31 2001 f233HUe02956 f233HVW19466 Subject: Re: Questions and more questions... the lathe tool in question is a 60 degree thread cutting bit.Steve from rmoon@ida.net Fri Mar 2 21:22:32 2001 f233MRe03242 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Darrell Were all Cross rods built by Wes Jordan, or only some? Anymarkings to that effect? I have two Cross Doublebuilts. An8 1/2 and a 9, but I have not noticed anything to indicatethey are Jordan rods. Ralph from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 2 21:36:39 2001 f233ace03655 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: New Leonard Rod Co. I think Don meant PH Young Dry Fly Specials made by Heddon... Darrell www.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Don,What's this about Paynes and Heddons? Don't rememberhearing that before. Harry Canerods@aol.com wrote: There's quite a bit of evidence that the Payne Dry Flyrods rolled out 100%completed out of the Heddon plant. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rmcelvain@uswest.net Fri Mar 2 22:18:58 2001 f234Ive04459 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.4.162) Subject: Re: Where to fish in theFlorida Keys A man I use to work for has a large boat in Marathon (rigged for big fish). I was going to be there a few days and I asked his Captain for a "flats" guide to do some fly fishing. He recommended Tommy Busciglio of Marathon (305) 743-7225. It was not a good time of year (January) for fishing the flats, the water was cold and the fish were not there. Tommy had me wait until the last day, hoping for warmer water, finally at my insistence he agreed to go for a half a day morning, to be extended at my request to a full day if I wanted. He had at this time a "bass boat" that got us around to several fishing areas very fast. Great guide, tried very hard to find fish, very honest. He had all the fly fishing equipment needed. His card says "tarpon, permit, bonefish". He is located at 555 112th St., Ocean, Marathon, Fla. 33050. Good luck. No financial interest, blah, blah, blah. Bob McElvain At 04:56 PM 3/2/01 -0500, you wrote:Hi...I may be taking my nephews fishng in the keys (13 and 14 years old). It would be mid to late summer (ugh - hot!). Anyone know of any guides down there for inshore fish (flats type). I can find stuff in magazines but would rather get a real recommendation. Thanks, Andy from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 2 22:27:24 2001 f234RNe04693 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Wes Jordan, South Bend, Cross rods According to my memory from reading the Wes Jordan book (now out ofprint)Wes actually made the rods himself as the Cross rods co. Now, the CrossDoublebuilts were the high grade South Bends but there were essentiallyproduction rods like the rest of the SB's. That's why the true Cross rods are so scarce and expensive... you rarely seethem come up for sale. But still usually undervalued IMHO. The best South Bend rods are the ones that are pre-WWII when Jordan wasrunning the SB shop. They are identified by having an oval decal as opposedto the rectangular decals and the grooved grips of the post WWII rods. I'veowned a few high grade pre-WWII SB rods with very nice NS fittings,reelseats and delicate cane, but most were beat to death... sorta like a lotof EC Powell rods I come across... great rods that were loved to death... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Darrell Were all Cross rods built by Wes Jordan, or only some? Anymarkings to that effect? I have two Cross Doublebuilts. An8 1/2 and a 9, but I have not noticed anything to indicatethey are Jordan rods. Ralph from tcwege@earthlink.net Fri Mar 2 22:39:44 2001 f234dhe04984 UAA05528 Subject: Storing Strips while in production Hi All,Since I am doing this purely for fun and I know this will take me a while Iwas wondering, what do I do with my strips during the whole buildingprocess? I belief I read somewhere ( on the list maybe?) that some folksstore there strips in a pvc tube with a drying agent to keep moisture out??Is this necessary or am I making it more complicated than it needs to be.TIA,Tilo from goodaple@tcac.net Fri Mar 2 23:26:04 2001 f235Q4e05875 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Making specialty varnishes Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A370.90360D60 Can anyone give me some insight or suggestions on how to go about making =some specialty varnishes using such ingredients as copal,dammar, mastic, =linseed, alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have located some sources = "cooking" the concoction? Also if anyone would be willing to part with =some "basic" recipes I would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A370.90360D60 Can anyone give me some insight or = how to go about making some specialty varnishes using such ingredients = copal,dammar, mastic, linseed, alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have = some sources for the ingredients but am looking for some beginners = some "basic" recipes I would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A370.90360D60-- from Canerods@aol.com Sat Mar 3 00:12:16 2001 f236CEe06729 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. --part1_3a.1193e969.27d1e535_boundary In a message dated 3/2/01 6:39:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Don,What's this about Paynes and Heddons? Don't rememberhearing that before. Harry Guys, I meant PHY dry fly - brain cell died that controls the keyboard. Don --part1_3a.1193e969.27d1e535_boundary In a message dated3/2/01 6:39:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Don, hearing that before. Guys, I meant PHY dry fly - brain cell died that controls the keyboard. Don --part1_3a.1193e969.27d1e535_boundary-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 3 03:11:09 2001 f239B8e08806 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:11:05 +0000 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? Built cane and split cane are one in the same.This is an 'English 'termto describe that the rod is composed of several sections glued together.This term is used to differentiate from 'cane'where the section iscomposed of whole cane.for example many old English coarse rods had awhole cane butt and middle section with a built/split cane topsection.........hope this helps........Paul Claude Freaner wrote: At 9:02 AM -0800 , 3/2/01, Ken McNeill wrote about Norman Aguttersblanks ?Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks soundstoo low to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm On this site, they refer to "As rodmakers we have sought perfectionin the peformance of a Split Bamboo Fly Rod (Split Cane or BuiltCane)." I understand what "split cane" is, but what is "built cane"? Nodeless,maybe? Claude from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 3 03:22:09 2001 f239M8e09007 Subject: Re: Storing Strips while in production Tilo;It depends on the typical average humidity where you live. If you are in a veryhumid environment, like New Orleans, you better do something, but here insouthwest Colorado, I just leave em out on the workbench, as soon as thesunhits the shop the humidity will drop to 40%.John Tilo Wege wrote: Hi All,Since I am doing this purely for fun and I know this will take me a while Iwas wondering, what do I do with my strips during the whole buildingprocess? I belief I read somewhere ( on the list maybe?) that some folksstore there strips in a pvc tube with a drying agent to keep moisture out??Is this necessary or am I making it more complicated than it needs to be.TIA,Tilo from thogan@rochester.rr.com Sat Mar 3 05:57:50 2001 f23Bvne10448 f23Bsqw29343 Subject: Re: sharpening Clearly I was wrong when I said there was no room for argument on asecondary or micro bevel!At best, I can say it works for me. I have tried it both ways with exactduplicates of planes and blades, and I preferred the one with a secondarybevel. This is somewhat of a non scientific experiment as two planes out ofthe box and gone through similar tune ups will act quite differently.I guess if you are getting good results from not adding a bevel, then stickwith that. This leads me into another thought regarding sharpening, and Iwonder how often people do it? I will go first. I have developed a patternso to speak, one that I was taught, and works well I think for bamboo rods.After each set of six strips I go over and hone the micro bevel using ahoning guide and template to help instantly set up the guide. The entireprocedure takes less than 5 minutes. Sometimes I do this after a set ofthree. I only take a few pushes on the sharpening stone, but boy does itmake a difference.I don't know if Krenov, Maloof, and other famous furniture makers use asecondary bevel or not. I recant what I said about furniture makers asbamboo maybe quite different from hardwoods and the proper set up of aplanemay be different as well.Thanks for all the replies. The discussion for this thread has beeninteresting. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 3 06:47:49 2001 f23Clle10950 Subject: Re: Making specialty varnishes Randall,try these sites. The first one is a site of old "folk" names of chemicalswhichI've found useful in this sort of thing.http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/Chem-History/Obsolete-Chem- TermsTOC.htmlhttp://violins.on.ca/recipes.htmlhttp://www.assoc- restorers.com/r- articles/padding_shellac.htmlhttp://www.shavings.net/FRENCH.HTMhttp://www.vrx.net/richard/paint/ I haven't made anything that is better than you can currently buy BUT thereisa lot of talk about gradually getting rid of all oil based finishes here someday and I'd like to have a choice in finish if that day arrives. Let me knowhow you go with this, I'd be very interested. Tony At 11:29 PM 3/2/01 -0600, Randall Gregory wrote: Can anyone give me some insight or suggestions on how to go about makingsomespecialty varnishes using such ingredients as copal,dammar, mastic,linseed,alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have located some sources for theingredients but am looking for some beginners methods to "cooking" theconcoction? Also if anyone would be willing to part with some "basic"recipesI would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo shavings or something). Thanks in advance, Randall Gregory NW AR. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sat Mar 3 07:04:49 2001 f23D4me11236 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 3 Mar 2001 07:05:03 -0600 Subject: bamboo ferrule Someone on the list asked for close up pics of the bamboo ferrules... theseare the best I have right now, but if you want to look at them go tohttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmThis page was done before the rod was complete, but gives you a littlebit better look at the ferrule and an idea how it's made. Bob from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 3 08:36:02 2001 f23Ea1e13699 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Norman Agutters blanks ?] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A3EB8488F4517D729C572368 --------------A3EB8488F4517D729C572368 Subject: Re: Norman Agutters blanks ? Built cane and split cane are one in the same.This is an 'English 'termto describe that the rod is composed of several sections glued together.This term is used to differentiate from 'cane'where the section iscomposed of whole cane.for example many old English coarse rods had awhole cane butt and middle section with a built/split cane topsection.........hope this helps........Paul Claude Freaner wrote: At 9:02 AM -0800 , 3/2/01, Ken McNeill wrote about Norman Aguttersblanks ?Is anyone familiar with this company? Their prices on blanks soundstoo low to be true. Thanks, Ken http://www.norman-agutters.co.uk/blanks.htm On this site, they refer to "As rodmakers we have sought perfectionin the peformance of a Split Bamboo Fly Rod (Split Cane or BuiltCane)." I understand what "split cane" is, but what is "built cane"? Nodeless,maybe? Claude --------------A3EB8488F4517D729C572368-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Mar 3 08:56:25 2001 f23EuOe14051 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 3 Mar 2001 08:56:39 -0600 Subject: Richard Nantel Richard... Can't find your email address... Email me offlist if you wouldn'tmind. Thanks,Bob from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Mar 3 09:40:14 2001 f23FeEe14773 Subject: Re: Bamboo Ferrule This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0A369.605439C0 BobI think your bamboo ferrules are very cool!A very interesting concept to say the least.Do you chamfer the end of the male ferrule slightlyto prevent splitting when pushing the male ferrule into the female =ferrule? ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0A369.605439C0 Bob = cool!A very interesting concept to say least.Do you chamfer the end of the male = slightlyto prevent splitting when pushing the = into the female ferrule? =_NextPart_000_001C_01C0A369.605439C0-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 3 10:23:34 2001 f23GNXe15446 +0000 Subject: Bait Casters-Reel Seats Any ideas as to where /who one should contact for an in line Heddon typereelseat with an integral casting trigger ( i.e not a crank handledcasting handle )??Thanks.........Paul from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 10:27:59 2001 f23GRwe15649 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:20:35 -0600 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Me neither Harry. Perhaps he meant PHY's "Dry Fly" rod that the used aHeddon blank for ? Paul said he wanted nothing to do with making that kindof taper.GMA from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Mar 3 10:32:56 2001 f23GWoe15908 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:34:48 -0600 Subject: SoWbug Roundup There will be members from this list doing tyingand demos. The North Arkansas Flyfishers will be holdingtheir annual Fly Fishing show on March 30-31 atthe Ramada Inn in Mtn. Home Arkansas. There willbe about 70 fly tyers, bamboo and graphite rodmaking, Casting pools and vendors. :http://www.northarkansasflyfisher.org/Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 10:37:19 2001 f23GbIe16103 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:29:54 -0600 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. I have 3 So. Bend Cross Double Builts, and 2 Cross Single Builts. The realCross rods were made in the 1920's, before So. Bend acquired Cross.Regardless of whether Wes J. built it, they were all made under hissupervision, and quality standard. I also have a Montague Power Built 50, that is almost mint, and it's also adouble built. All of these are really fine rods, above the average for certain !GMA from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 10:55:41 2001 f23Gtee16543 2001 08:55:42 PST Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. gma, i have a cross doublebuilt but never have fishedit and doubt i ever will. do you ever fish yours? timothy --- nobler wrote:I have 3 So. Bend Cross Double Builts, and 2 CrossSingle Builts. The realCross rods were made in the 1920's, before So. Bendacquired Cross.Regardless of whether Wes J. built it, they were allmade under hissupervision, and quality standard. I also have a Montague Power Built 50, that isalmost mint, and it's also adouble built. All of these are really fine rods, above the average GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 11:15:20 2001 f23HFJe17057 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:07:53 -0600 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. My So. Bends are al bass bug tapers, and one was fished when I was up inArk. in Oct.. It pushes a nice line ! I've not had a chance to even cast one single built, that is fully restored,and extremely nice. The other is a Forsyth, that was buggered with sloppyferrules, and a plastic dip finish. I'll finish restoring it too. Both ofthese have excellent cane work. The single builts are more in the troutaction class, but 9' to 9.5' from that era.GMA from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Mar 3 11:19:20 2001 f23HJJe17271 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. Timothy,Fish the poor rod... don't you hear it calling out to you?Seriuosly, the rods were made to be fished. I remember the firstLeonard I had, I tiptoed over the streambed and worried over every mossystone, lest I trip and injure the rod. One day of fishing like that andI was ready to break the rod myself, over my bondage to it. Since then Ihave enjoyed my old rods thoroughly without taking more than the generalcare they deserve. Try it, you'll like it.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ timothy troester wrote: gma, i have a cross doublebuilt but never have fishedit and doubt i ever will. do you ever fish yours?timothy from rmoon@ida.net Sat Mar 3 11:50:47 2001 f23Hoje17902 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. --------------71E32E0BBA176315D103D04F reed curry wrote: Fish the poor rod... don't you hear it calling out toyou? Reed, I really concur, but there is a downside. I came to this conclusion alittle over a year ago, so one fine day I took mt best rod, a 7'6" Granger,my hardy Perfect reel, two exquisitely made wooden fly boxes to fish theHenry's Fork. Now I have bad balance, so I was paying a lot of attention tomy wading. I have not fallen in for years, so of course I took a header.No problem I thought, just drop my toes and the current will sweep meupright. Yeah, sure! I drove at least twenty gallons of water down my noseand throat. You just didn't do it right I thought, and tried again. Thistime I imbibed only thirty gallons of water. A little bit desperate Irolled over on my back and immediately began floating like a cork, except Ihad no way of getting up or of propelling my self. I figured that beforethe time I hit the Columbia River someone might pull me out. And so theydid. I was still clinging desperately to my ski pole wading staff, but allthe good stuff I left in the middle of the river. Fish it but CAREFULLY Ralph P.S. my grandson was able to find my lost tackle, but it was hairy for aminute. --------------71E32E0BBA176315D103D04F out to you? conclusion a little over a year ago, so one fine day I took mt best rod,a 7'6" Granger, my hardy Perfect reel, two exquisitely made wooden fly desperate I rolled over on my back and immediately began floating like I figured that before the time I hit the Columbia River someone might pull my ski pole wading staff, but all the good stuff I left in the middle ofthe river.Fish it but CAREFULLYRalph --------------71E32E0BBA176315D103D04F-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 3 11:52:13 2001 f23HqCe18030 Subject: Fish those rods Timothy,Fish those rods man. I have old Leonards, Paynes, Orvis, So.Bends, Heddons,Montagues, and other rods and I fish them all. I would even fish a Garrison, Gillum or Kushner if I had them. These were made to fish not to sit and collect dust. Bret from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 12:00:50 2001 f23I0ne18363 2001 10:00:51 PST Subject: Re: Fish those rods yeh, that was what i was getting at. i'm not scared tofish it. i just never get to it. it bugs me to have itand not fish it. i'm not shy. i too have fishedoriganal paynes, phy's and kushners but i did not dowhat i was going to do a few years ago and make a 6'rod out of my 9' cross. it wouldn't have made a good6footer anyway. timothy --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Timothy,Fish those rods man. I have old Leonards,Paynes, Orvis, So.Bends, Heddons,Montagues, and other rods and I fish them all. Iwould even fish a Garrison, Gillum or Kushner if I had them. These were made tofish not to sit and collect dust. Bret ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Sat Mar 3 12:21:41 2001 f23ILee18911 Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu --part1_7c.12668196.27d29023_boundary In a message dated 3/3/01 9:51:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.net writes: No problem I thought, just drop my toes and the current will sweep me upright. Yeah, sure! I drove at least twenty gallons of water down my nose and throat. You just didn't do it right I thought, and tried again. This time I imbibed only thirty gallons of water. A little bit desperate I rolled over on my back and immediately began floating like a cork, except I had no way of getting up or of propelling my self. I figured that before the time I hit the Columbia River someone might pull me out. And so they did. I was still clinging desperately to my ski pole wading staff, but all the good stuff I left in the middle of the river. Fish it but CAREFULLY Ralph Raplh, Always get the air out of your waders and wear a wading belt so that you aren't held upside down by the air in your wader legs. Don B. PS - At least you didn't drive the tip into the bottom and snap it off like I've done. Maybe that's why I'm so good at tip scrafs. --part1_7c.12668196.27d29023_boundary In a message dated3/3/01 9:51:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, rmoon@ida.net writes: No problem Ithought, just drop my toes and the current will sweep me water down my desperate I rolled over on my back and immediately began floating like a figured that before the time I hit the Columbia River someone might pullme ski pole wading staff, but all the good stuff I left in the middle of the river. Fish it but CAREFULLY Ralph Raplh, Always get the air out of your waders and wear a wading belt so thatyou aren't held upside down by the air in your wader legs. Don B. PS - At least you didn't drive the tip into the bottom and snap it off like I've done. Maybe that's why I'm so good at tip scrafs. --part1_7c.12668196.27d29023_boundary-- from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Mar 3 12:37:11 2001 f23IbAe19445 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Re: Making specialty varnishes Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0A3DF.10B97D00 Tony and Bradley, Thanks for the information. I have checked the Violin =site but I will research the others further. I will keep the list posted =on my progress. Thanks much, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 11:29 PMSubject: Making specialty varnishes Can anyone give me some insight or suggestions on how to go about =making some specialty varnishes using such ingredients as copal,dammar, =mastic, linseed, alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have located some =sources for the ingredients but am looking for some beginners methods to ="cooking" the concoction? Also if anyone would be willing to part with =some "basic" recipes I would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo = ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0A3DF.10B97D00 Tony and Bradley, Thanks for the = have checked the Violin site but I will research the others further. I = AR. ----- Original Message ----- Randall= Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 = PMSubject: Making specialty =varnishes Can anyone give me some insight or = how to go about making some specialty varnishes using such ingredients = copal,dammar, mastic, linseed, alcohol, turps, walnut oils etc. I have = some sources for the ingredients but am looking for some beginners = some "basic" recipes I would be in your debt(I'll trade some bamboo = ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0A3DF.10B97D00-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 12:40:47 2001 f23Iege19667 2001 10:40:40 PST Subject: Re: New Leonard Rod Co. something like this happen to a friend of mine down inarkansas. we almost lost him. everyone on the bank wasdemobilised from laughter. we are insensitive louts attimes or at least that's what john called us as weheld our chests convulsing with snott and tearsrunning down our faces. timothy No problem I thought, just drop my toes and thecurrent will sweep me upright. Yeah, sure! I drove at least twentygallons of water down my nose and throat. You just didn't do it right Ithought, and tried again. This time I imbibed only thirty gallons ofwater. A little bit desperate I rolled over on my back and immediatelybegan floating like a cork, except I had no way of getting up or ofpropelling my self. I figured that before the time I hit the ColumbiaRiver someone might pull me out. And so they did. I was still clingingdesperately to my ski pole wading staff, but all the good stuff I left in themiddle of the river. Fish it but CAREFULLY Ralph Raplh, Always get the air out of your waders and wear awading belt so that you aren't held upside down by the air in your waderlegs. Don B. PS - At least you didn't drive the tip into thebottom and snap it off like I've done. Maybe that's why I'm so good at tipscrafs. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Mar 3 13:33:33 2001 (may be forged)) f23JXXe20569 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Kodak Fixer This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A418.D312F820 One of my earlier life enhancing obsessions was black and white photography,so I've used a lot of fixer. The only caution I know of for this stuff is that the powder can puff upwhen you add it to water and irritate if inhaled. You want to mix it inwater at about 90 to 100 degrees F, and stir constantly for the first coupleof minutes to keep the crystals from fusing into a pile on the bottom of thebottle. It can last for several months at room temp if stored withoutexposure to oxygen. It's not generally hazardous so don't worry aboutgetting it on your hands. Photogs do that all the time and to my knowledgethis does not produce exposure-induced allergies and the like. I'm surethere are some people who are sensitive to it so please don't take this asan absolute guarantee, but it's not generally dangerous. The main ingredientis sodium thiosulphate and a mild acid about the strength of vinegar. It canbe disposed of by washing down the drain with plenty of water. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Kodak Fixer ScottYou got the right stuff.You have to mix it with water.As far as the shelf life, I'm not sure.I use it to do the parts for one rod and then dispose of it.Just mix up what you need.It reacts slower than brass black.Tony Miller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A418.D312F820 0DocumentEmail O=ne of myearlier life enhancing obsessions was black and white photography, so =I've useda lot of fixer. T=he onlycaution I know of for this stuff is that the powder can puff up when =you add itto water and irritate if inhaled. You want to mix it in water at about =90 to100 degrees F, and stir constantly for the first couple of minutes to =keep thecrystals from fusing into a pile on the bottom of the bottle. It can =last forseveral months at room temp if stored without exposure to oxygen. It's =not generallyhazardous so don't worry about getting it on your hands. Photogs do =that allthe time and to my knowledge this does not produce exposure- induced =allergiesand the like. I'm sure there are some people who are sensitive to it so =pleasedon't take this as an absolute guarantee, but it's not generally =dangerous. Themain ingredient is sodium thiosulphate and a mild acid about the =strength ofvinegar. It can be disposed of by washing down the drain with plenty of =water. B=arryKling -----OriginalMessage-----From: Tony Miller Sent: Wednesday, =February 28, 20014:51 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re:Kodak =Fixer Scott= You gotthe right stuff. Youhave to mix it with water.= As faras the shelf life, I'm not sure.= I useit to do the parts for one rod and then dispose of =it.= Justmix up what you need. Itreacts slower than brass black.= TonyMiller ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A418.D312F820-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Mar 3 13:33:36 2001 (may be forged)) f23JXae20574 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Reelseat with fighting butt He also makes handsome downsliding seats from bronze. Usual disclaimer thopersonally I think he ought to send a dozen free reel seats to anyone on thelist saying anything remotely positive about him. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Reelseat with fighting butt All,I just received a bronze reelseat with detachable fighting butt fromTony Young. A very clever and solid bit of work. You can see a jpg at http://www.overmywaders.com/reelseat.jpg Usual disclaimer applies.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 15:15:31 2001 f23LFUe22465 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:08:01 -0600 "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Making specialty varnishes made. It comes from Holland and is carried in the U.S. by a big boatsupplies company, Western Supply I think.It's true varnish with no urethanes, etc..GMA from corens6001@juno.com Sat Mar 3 16:21:07 2001 f23ML6e23515 17:20:59 EST Subject: novice class Am organizing a class for novices in the Chicago area for this spring.Anyone in the area interested in attending contact me off list. Thanks - Bill Somerville________________________________________________________________GET INTERNET ACCESS from JUNO!Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. from dutcher@email.msn.com Sat Mar 3 16:31:38 2001 f23MVce23864 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 14:31:30 -0800 Subject: Re: [Bamboo_rodmakers_data_program] Unsubscribe Command{02} I have often wondered what "constructive criticism" looked like. (?)Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Dan Cooney Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:26 PMSubject: [Bamboo_rodmakers_data_program] Unsubscribe Command {02} Joe, You state that everyone who has downloaded your rodmakers databaseprogramisusing it productively and imply that those who have not registered aredeadbeats. There is another possibility. You wrote: "With 170 people using the program and only 7 registered usersoutthere you can do the math and see that this is a losing proposition forme. Ideveloped this program to try to give something back to rod builders whohaveshared and given so much of their time and talents to me" I downloaded the program. Provided you feedback, including the fact thattherewas no database backup capability and that the data in your database isnoteasily transportable to other formats (for the purposes of exchangingtapers androd building information with others not using your facility). At yourinvitation, I downloaded and evaluated your database program. I have neverusedit to archive my own tapers (other than to test the function) or any otherproductive rod building activities. I continue to use a product called"YeahWrite," a $19, general purpose word processor/personal database manager,toarchive all of my rod building information. It works for me. Don't count me in your deadbeat population!! I suspect that there are significantly fewer than 170 actually using yourdatabase program. The number of people recently reporting having hadproblemsunzipping the downloaded file/installing the code and those bailing out ofthedistribution list would suggest that 170 users is an exaggeration. BTW --Whynot use PKUNZIP and .zip files? Good luck! Regards,Dan Cooney from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sat Mar 3 17:02:50 2001 f23N2ne24562 Subject: Re: Making specialty varnishes Hi, In Maine, Hamilton Marine carries it. Kat and David made. It comes from Holland and is carried in the U.S. by a big boatsupplies company, Western Supply I think.It's true varnish with no urethanes, etc..GMA from robert.kope@prodigy.net Sat Mar 3 17:08:32 2001 f23N8We24825 f23N8UK243090 Subject: varnish edges This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0A3F1.54B57D80 As I suspect most of you do, mask the female ferrules by wrapping them =with masking tape and dip my rod sections with the tip down. After 3 =coats I have a finish that I'm usually satisfied with, but removing the =tape leaves an unsightly rough edge with a ridge on the varnish on the =female ferrules. I dip in Helmsman Spar Urethane, but expect that the =same thing occurs with just about any varnish. I cut the ridge off with =a very sharp knife and smooth it out with 0000 steel wool, but this is =always worst looking part of the finish. I just looked through all the =books I've got and find no discussion of this problem. What do the rest =of you do about edge of the varnish left by removing the tape from =ferrules after dipping? -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0A3F1.54B57D80 As I suspect most of you do, = ferrules by wrapping them with masking tape and dip my rod sections with = the ridge off with a very sharp knife and smooth it out with 0000 steel = ferrules after dipping? -- Robert =Kope ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0A3F1.54B57D80-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 3 17:15:36 2001 f23NFVe25105 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 17:08:01 -0600 Subject: Re: varnish edges I started wrapping ferrules and such with plumbers Teflon tape, from asuggestion here sometime ago. It worked very well, but I spray, and don'tdip. The thin tape leaves no line/ridge around the ferrules.GMA from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Mar 3 17:32:30 2001 f23NWOe25620 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Re: varnish edges Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A408.39439D40 I usually determine how to handle that problem based upon whether I am =using oxidized ferrules or regular. Regular is easier to deal with =because I can remove the ridges and then republish the ferrule. On =oxidized ferrules I oxidize the ferrules after the entire process and =then dip the ferrules(plugged) to protect the oxidation. I'm sure others =have other ways. Good luck, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 4:50 PMSubject: varnish edges As I suspect most of you do, mask the female ferrules by wrapping them =with masking tape and dip my rod sections with the tip down. After 3 =coats I have a finish that I'm usually satisfied with, but removing the =tape leaves an unsightly rough edge with a ridge on the varnish on the =female ferrules. I dip in Helmsman Spar Urethane, but expect that the =same thing occurs with just about any varnish. I cut the ridge off with =a very sharp knife and smooth it out with 0000 steel wool, but this is =always worst looking part of the finish. I just looked through all the =books I've got and find no discussion of this problem. What do the rest =of you do about edge of the varnish left by removing the tape from =ferrules after dipping? -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A408.39439D40 I usually determine how to handle that = based upon whether I am using oxidized ferrules or regular. Regular is = deal with because I can remove the ridges and then republish the = oxidized ferrules I oxidize the ferrules after the entire process and = the ferrules(plugged) to protect the oxidation. I'm sure others have = Good luck, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Kope Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001= PMSubject: varnish edges As I suspect most of you do, = ferrules by wrapping them with masking tape and dip my rod sections = dipping? Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0A408.39439D40-- from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Mar 3 17:48:28 2001 f23NmQe26037 Subject: Rattan Grips This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0A3AD.4BA8D780 ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0A3AD.4BB078A0 A while back we had a discussion on Rattan Grips.I have just completed a rod with one. Thank you to everyone on the list = grip and rod if anyone would like to see it. you don't have to be afraid to open them.I'm not trying to sell anything here, just wanted to showthe results to the list. Hope you enjoy them!Best regardsTony Miller from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Mar 3 18:28:25 2001 f240SKe26801 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) Subject: Re: Rattan Grips Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A410.178380A0 Nice lookin rod Tony. I'm gonna have to try making one of those grips. I =just sorted out the cork for the rod I'm working on. Now You gave =something else to spend more money on. Yuk, Yuk, chuckle. I like haw you =have the mottled flamed effect on the grip. Randall G. Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 5:43 AMSubject: Rattan Grips A while back we had a discussion on Rattan Grips.I have just completed a rod with one. Thank you to everyone on the =list for all your advice. You were all very helpful. grip and rod if anyone would like to see it. you don't have to be afraid to open them.I'm not trying to sell anything here, just wanted to showthe results to the list. Hope you enjoy them!Best regardsTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A410.178380A0 Nice lookin rod Tony. I'm gonna have to= one of those grips. I just sorted out the cork for the rod I'm working = You gave something else to spend more money on. Yuk, Yuk, chuckle. I = you have the mottled flamed effect on the grip. Randall G. ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001= AMSubject: Rattan Grips A while back we had a discussion on = Grips.I have just completed a rod with one. = helpful.I have an attachment on this email = pictures of the grip and rod if anyone would like to = it.I ran the attachment through Norton = program so you don't have to be afraid to them.I'm not trying to sell anything here, = to showthe results to the list. Hope you = them!Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A410.178380A0-- from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 3 18:44:45 2001 f240iee27236 Subject: Re: Rattan Grips Tony,That looks GREAT!Art At 06:43 AM 03/03/2001 -0500, Tony Miller wrote:A while back we had a discussion on Rattan Grips. to everyone on thelist for all your advice. You were all very helpful. I have an attachmenton this email with 2 pictures of the grip and rod if anyone would like tosee it. I ran the attachment through Norton antivirus program so youdon't have to be afraid to open them. I'm not trying to sell anythinghere, just wanted to show the results to the list. Hope you enjoy them!Best regards Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Firehole#2.jpg" AttachmentConverted: "c:\eudora\attach\Firehole #1.jpg" from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Mar 3 19:24:23 2001 f241OMe27887 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 17:24:19 -0800 Subject: Re: varnish edges --------------5C6411CC1B8C4443ABBD3710 Robert,Richard Tyree suggested to me several years ago that Iuse Scotch invisible tape for the first wrap of masking.That's one of the truly simple, but great suggestions I'vegotten from the people of this list. It works like a charm,and you probably have some lying around the house. Also, Imask off the ferrules for the first coats, but only plug thefemale ends and mask the male slides for the final dippedcoat. Varnish protects the ferrules a little bit.I've tried the teflon tape, but found that it makes amell of a hess if you use lacquer as a color preservative!Lacquer (or the thinner) will eat it in a hurry. Harry Boyd Robert Kope wrote: As I suspect most of you do, mask the female ferrules bywrapping them with masking tape and dip my rod sectionswith the tip down. After 3 coats I have a finish that I'musually satisfied with, but removing the tape leaves anunsightly rough edge with a ridge on the varnish on thefemale ferrules. I dip in Helmsman Spar Urethane, butexpect that the same thing occurs with just about anyvarnish. I cut the ridge off with a very sharp knife andsmooth it out with 0000 steel wool, but this is alwaysworst looking part of the finish. I just looked throughall the books I've got and find no discussion of thisproblem. What do the rest of you do about edge of thevarnish left by removing the tape from ferrules afterdipping? -- Robert Kope --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------5C6411CC1B8C4443ABBD3710 Robert, one of the truly simple, but great suggestions I've gotten from the people but only plug the female ends and mask the male slides for the final dipped (or the thinner) will eat it in a hurry. Robert Kope wrote:As I suspectmostof you do, mask the female ferrules by wrapping them with masking tape finish that I'm usually satisfied with, but removing the tape leaves anunsightly rough edge with a ridge on the varnish on the female I dip in Helmsman Spar Urethane, but expect that the same thing occurs knife and smooth it out with 0000 steel wool, but this is always worst do about edge of the varnish left by removing the tape from ferrules after Kope --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------5C6411CC1B8C4443ABBD3710-- from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Mar 3 19:25:17 2001 f241PFe28000 Subject: Re: Rattan Grips This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A405.D5B6E9A0 Hi Tony and all,Nice job Tony! How about sharing with us some of the details notably the =size of the rattan, how you anchored the ends, and how and when you =mottled the finish on the rattan.Ray Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 3:43 AMSubject: Rattan Grips A while back we had a discussion on Rattan Grips.I have just completed a rod with one. Thank you to everyone on the =list for all your advice. You were all very helpful. grip and rod if anyone would like to see it. you don't have to be afraid to open them.I'm not trying to sell anything here, just wanted to showthe results to the list. Hope you enjoy them!Best regardsTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A405.D5B6E9A0 Hi Tony and all,Nice job Tony! How about sharing with = the details notably the size of the rattan, how you anchored the ends, = and when you mottled the finish on the rattan.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001= AMSubject: Rattan Grips A while back we had a discussion on = Grips.I have just completed a rod with one. = helpful.I have an attachment on this email = pictures of the grip and rod if anyone would like to = it.I ran the attachment through Norton = program so you don't have to be afraid to them.I'm not trying to sell anything here, = to showthe results to the list. Hope you = them!Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A405.D5B6E9A0-- from dickay@alltel.net Sat Mar 3 20:30:18 2001 f242UHe29163 srv.alltel.net Subject: Re: Making specialty varnishes Randall, Bob Nunley In Poteau, OK posted this to the list in February of2000 and I filed it for future reference.Dick FuhrmanFort Smith from Bob Nunley 2/19/00 10:26 AM Well, I had a lot of requests for my Spirit Varnish Recipe, so I am justgoing to post it to the list... Those of you that don't want it can justdelete it... Those of you that do, have fun with it... might be best to doit while the wife/girlfriend is off shopping, cause it does emit a bit of anodor... nothing dangerous, just annoying. I also have a recipe for a dryingoil, or oil varnish if anyone wants it, but let me warn you... this one isvery hard to make and can be dangerous... best made in the Summer so youcando it outside on a bunsen burner or you could blow your kitchen up... Theone below is a spirit varnish and is very easy to make and goes onbeautifully. OK, This process for making the varnish is pretty easy once you find all theingredients. Most can be obtained from a Luthier Supply house... one of thebest is International Luthiers Supply in Tulsa, OK, and if you don't want togo to all of this trouble, I believe they carry premixed Spirit Varnishes. First, you'll need a bottle, or apothacary jar at least a third larger thanthe batch you are going to make. Don't use one with a screw on lid. You willeither cork the bottle or just tie a piece of paper over it with a string orrubber band. DO NOT seal it, as in a screw type lid.... You'll also need adeep casserole dish... place a piece of wood in the bottom of the casseroledish for the bottle to sit on... like two strips of 1/2 x 1/2 wood, or evena metal rack like goes in a canner. Sit the bottle on the strips or rack inthe dish. Mix the following ingredients in the bottle.Gum Lac 6 ouncesPowdered gum sandaric 1 ounceMastic in tears 1 ounceSpirits of wine 1 quart Before putting the three gum bases in the jar, just pound them with ahammerin a rag to get them coursely ground, don't have to be fine ground, just nothuge chunks. Now, fill the casserole dish with water until the level of the water is justabout an eighth of an inch below the level of the ingredients in the jar.Set it on the stove on a low temperature setting, and let it work. You canoccasionally remove the mixture and check to see if all the ingredients havedisolved. Once they have, you need to mix it as follows to make your finalvarnish. Take 4 ounces of the varnish base you just made, mix it with 16 ounces ofSpirits of wine and 2 ounces of Turpentine. This time, put it in a jar witha screw on lid and place it in a window so that it is exposed to the sun.This is very important. Don't know why, but the sunlight exposure makes alot of difference! Let it set for about a week, exposed to the daily sun,and you have a spirit varnish that is ready to use, easy to hand rub anddries quickly... and I mean VERY quickly, so don't dally while applying eachcoat. This is a clear varnish, and if you want it tinted, you can buy varioustinting agents (mostly powdered exotic woods) from the Luthier supply houseI mentioned above. Later,Bob from dutcher@email.msn.com Sat Mar 3 20:33:52 2001 f242Xpe29351 Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:33:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Rattan Grips Tony, That is one fine job! The flaming is a very nice touch. What did you useas a base under the rattan? I am interested in how you finished off at thewinding check. Any chance of a close-up picture? Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 3:43 AMSubject: Rattan Grips A while back we had a discussion on Rattan Grips.I have just completed a rod with one. Thank you to everyone on the list I have an attachment on this email with 2 pictures of thegrip and rod if anyone would like to see it.I ran the attachment through Norton antivirus program soyou don't have to be afraid to open them.I'm not trying to sell anything here, just wanted to showthe results to the list. Hope you enjoy them!Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 3 21:09:59 2001 f2439ve29996 Subject: RE: Reelseat with fighting butt Whoa.....Tricky. Talk about being betwen a rock and a hard place :-) Thanks guys. Tony At 01:33 PM 3/3/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: He also makes handsome downsliding seats from bronze. Usual disclaimerthopersonally I think he ought to send a dozen free reel seats to anyone on thelist saying anything remotely positive about him. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:56 PM Subject: Reelseat with fighting butt All,I just received a bronze reelseat with detachable fighting butt fromTony Young. A very clever and solid bit of work. You can see a jpg at http://www.overmywaders.com/reelseat.jpg Usual disclaimer applies.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. /*************************************************************************/ from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Sat Mar 3 21:57:23 2001 f243vNe00740 Subject: Earthquake I have to report the first rodmaking "near-miss" from the Seattleearthquake. On wednesday night (after the earthquake) I dipped my latestrod - an 8' Gillum using a taper from the list. I hung it to dry in mymake-shift "cabinet" - a cardboard wardrobe box with a 200 watt light bulb.On the way to work thursday morning, I heard we had an aftershock at 4am.I'd slept through it, so I figured it hadn't done any damage. After dinner I went out to the garage to check the rod, and found to myhorror that both sections had fallen off the bar in the cabinet! The twosections were lightly stuck together, so it must have happened during theaftershock while the varnish was still a bit wet. Fortunately this was thefirst coat and I normally sand most of it off anyway, so no harm done. So, my cardboard drying cabinet setup isn't earthquake-proof. And I'll betthe experienced west coast rodmakers wisely avoided varnishing after anearthquake. I guess us rookies have to learn the hard way! Seriously, the earthquake was very frightening and I feel fortunate that myfamily, house, and office suffered no damage. The road to one of myfavorite cutthroat beaches on Puget Sound was damaged, but that's soinsignificant compared to what might have happened. Tom from Troutgetter@aol.com Sat Mar 3 22:03:36 2001 f2443Ve01091 Subject: Re: Earthquake 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN --part1_23.8359d55.27d3187d_boundary In a message dated 3/3/2001 7:58:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, TBOWDEN@halcyon.com writes: The road to one of myfavorite cutthroat beaches on Puget Sound was damaged, but that's soinsignificant compared to what might have happened. Tom INSIGNIFICANT! I think that was DISASTROUS! Mike --part1_23.8359d55.27d3187d_boundary In a message dated3/3/2001 7:58:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, TBOWDEN@halcyon.com writes: The road to oneof myfavorite cutthroat beaches on Puget Sound was damaged, but that's soinsignificant compared to what might have happened. Tom INSIGNIFICANT! I think that was DISASTROUS! Mike --part1_23.8359d55.27d3187d_boundary-- from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Mar 3 22:28:21 2001 f244SKe01676 Subject: Re: Rattan Grips This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02CE_01C0A3D4.94F2ACA0 Thanks for the all the kind words guys.I will try to answer all the questions.First the rattan is a 2.25mm chair cane.Second I wrapped it over cork.I tried balsa and it works,but it is much harder to work with.I hold the ends down with masking tape and sewing pins.I think the trick is to glue the end wait till its dry then glue the =rest.I was going for a sort of aged look so I used a alcohollamp to molt the rattan. I have seen the kane klassicrattan grip but wanted to do something similar but notexactly the same. I think he burns the rattan before he wraps it. I did =it after. Giving it a similar look but a little different. I was trying =to match the molted look on my rod.I use spar varnish on my rods, but for the rattan grip(only)I used a spar urethane. I feel that the grip will get allot ofwear and varnish might not hold up over the long haul, on the grip.I did =not put the red thread in between but I might try it next time. All in =all it was not an easy task.I experimented allot. I will be showing this =rod at the Southfield show.I used silk wraps. I know it is hard to see in the pictures,but did you guys notice the English twist snake guides I made?Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_02CE_01C0A3D4.94F2ACA0 guys. questions. cane.Second I wrapped it over =cork.I tried balsa and it works,but it is = work with.I hold the ends down with masking tape= pins.I think the trick is to glue the end = dry then glue the rest.I was going for a sort of aged look so = alcohollamp to molt the rattan. I have seen = klassicrattan grip but wanted to do something= notexactly the same. I think he burns the = before he wraps it. I did it after. Giving it a similar look but a = rod.I use spar varnish on my rods, but for = grip(only)I used a spar urethane. I feel that the = get allot ofwear and varnish might not hold up over= haul, on the grip.I did not put the red thread in between but I might = next time. All in all it was not an easy task.I experimented allot. I = showing this rod at the Southfield show.I used silk wraps. I know it is hard to = pictures,but did you guys notice the English = guides I made?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_02CE_01C0A3D4.94F2ACA0-- from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Mar 4 07:13:56 2001 f24DDue06240 Subject: Re: Earthquake Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 3/3/01 10:04:23 PM Central Standard Time, Troutgetter@aol.com writes: The road to one of myfavorite cutthroat beaches on Puget Sound was damaged, but that's soinsignificant compared to what might have happened. Tom INSIGNIFICANT! I think that was DISASTROUS! Mike >>WHAT? you can't carry an off road bicycle with you? SEE? THIS is just the reason I usually ride a motorcycle! Take a dirt bike along and you can go anywhere. (with tongue firmly in cheek,)mark "Piscator non solum Piscatur" from mrmac@tcimet.net Sun Mar 4 11:46:31 2001 f24HkVe09650 Subject: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? Anyone tried ammonia toning in a Neunemann type heat gun oven? Anyspecial tricks or ideas on how to get the ammonium carbonate in?Currently, the bottom end of mine is not conveniently removable, but Isuppose it could be fixed up to do that, if that's what it would take. thanks - mac from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 4 12:54:54 2001 f24Isre10692 Sun, 4 Mar 2001 14:54:01 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? Ralph,take a small tin can(small enough to fit down the stack) and make alittlehandle like a paint bucket one but shaped like this ^ , make sure it isattached wellto the can. Tie a long enough piece to reach the bottom heatproof string (orsmallwire) to the crotch of the handle, The string must be long enough to reachthe bottom of your oven and some left over to secure it at the top. Pyt you ammonia inthe canand lower away! The ^ shape will help line the can up when you go to removeit.Hope this helps,ShawnRalph MacKenzie wrote: Anyone tried ammonia toning in a Neunemann type heat gun oven? Anyspecial tricks or ideas on how to get the ammonium carbonate in?Currently, the bottom end of mine is not conveniently removable, but Isuppose it could be fixed up to do that, if that's what it would take. thanks - mac from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Mar 4 13:12:57 2001 f24JCue11079 Subject: Herter's prices All,I thought you might enjoy looking at some prices from yesteryear onrodmaking supplies. Also some good ideas for ferrules. I put two pages from a 1961 Herter's Catalogue on my extracts page. Of course, this wasat a time when a whole Blue Chatterer skin was $0.77. Sigh... Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 4 13:56:58 2001 f24Juve12095 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson 6611 Hi all,got a question (several actually) about the Dickerson 6611. First I waswondering if anyone knew the dimensions of the original grip/reelseat of thislittlerod? Also I was wondering if anyone knew the original guide spacings??I don't know much about Dickerson rods(yet that is) my experience ismostlywith Mr. Young's works of art. If this little rod casts as nice as it looks so farIthink I may be building many more Dickersons in the future!Can someone tell me about the appearance of the Dickersons?? I wouldlove tosee any pictures if someone has any or knows of a site. Thanks, Shawn from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 4 14:07:42 2001 f24K7fe12453 Subject: Idaho List,Is there anyone on the list in the Boise Idaho area? If so can you give me any ideas as to what flies will be good to use. I will be flying in on May 21st and I will be in Idaho until the 29th. I have a place to stay in McCall but plan on doing some driving to other areas including going down to Yellowstone if anything is open then. I have been told this is not the best time to be going but when you get a free trip you take it. Also what are the best rods to use in this area? If there is someone on the list who is in this area also I would like to get together and talk rods if possible. Thanks in advance for any info sent.Bret 219-299-7103 from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Sun Mar 4 17:17:24 2001 f24NHNe15897 Subject: lathe questions Hey Folks - I've just acquired an old bench top wood working lathe that Iwould like to set up for shaping grips and turning ferrule stations - Ifsomeone knowlegable about this could contact me off list I could describehow the lathe is currently configured... any help would be appreciated as Iam clueless... Thanks in advance, Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Mar 4 17:27:34 2001 f24NRXe16233 Subject: Re: Lathe question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0A472.77B12920 AlecJust send it to me and I'll figure it out for you. LOLJust kidding, what exactly do you need to know about it?Maybe I can helpI'm familiar with lathes.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0A472.77B12920 AlecJust send it to me and I'll figure it = LOLJust kidding, what exactly do you need= about it?Maybe I can helpI'm familiar with lathes.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0A472.77B12920-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Mar 4 17:46:49 2001 f24Nkme16754 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Rattan Grips Nice rod Tony, But You gotta give us an close up, if we should be able to see them..... danny .....but did you guys notice the English twist snake guides I made? from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Mar 4 18:39:39 2001 f250dbe17971 Sun, 4 Mar 2001 19:39:05 -0500 Subject: Re: lathe questions Hi Alex:You'll have to be more specific about what you want to know how to do and what your lathe is like.One thing that I have been using for a while now that works great for grips is the #60 grit dry wall mesh. It works great for turning down grips rather quickly. Also, I use a wooden block after the initial shaping so that the grip is pretty straight/true to the center. It is hard to do that freehand without this support. I use #220 for this and finish with #400. Smooth enough for me. don't have a metal lathe and tool bit, try a file or a flat wooden block with paper to turn down the stations.Another tip would be to find out what size tail stock you have and get a live center for it if you don't already have one.Good luck,Bob At 06:20 PM 3/4/2001 -0500, Alec Stansell wrote:Hey Folks - I've just acquired an old bench top wood working lathe that Iwould like to set up for shaping grips and turning ferrule stations - Ifsomeone knowlegable about this could contact me off list I could describehow the lathe is currently configured... any help would be appreciated as Iam clueless... Thanks in advance, Alec Stansell Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Mar 4 19:13:39 2001 f251Dce18689 Subject: Rattan Grips This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A481.27BB59E0 To the list:I was told that some people were not able to openthe attachment of the Rattan Grip I did ,on the rod I just finished. a page to see it. I tried to answer everyone's questions. I hope I did not miss anyone.Best RegardsTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A481.27BB59E0 To the list:I was told that some people were not = openthe attachment of the Rattan Grip I did= So for those who could not open them = to a page to see it.www.homestead.= Once again thanks to all who helped me.= I tried to answer everyone's questions.= did not miss anyone.Best RegardsTonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0A481.27BB59E0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Mar 4 20:33:10 2001 f252X9e19969 2001 18:33:07 PST Subject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? i suggest you not do it in the house. if you do youwill be sleeping on your work bench like me and tonyyoung. :-) timothy --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Anyone tried ammonia toning in a Neunemann type heatgun oven? Anyspecial tricks or ideas on how to get the ammoniumcarbonate in?Currently, the bottom end of mine is notconveniently removable, but Isuppose it could be fixed up to do that, if that'swhat it would take. thanks - mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Mar 4 20:46:04 2001 f252k4e20368 Subject: Toning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C0A48D.EC57E0A0 Have you guys ever seen how Walt Carpenterflames his cane?I seen In a book where he uses a large flame at a distance.It gives a real nice honey color to the cane. Maybe this might be an =alternative.I was going to try to use a propane MR.HEATERYou know the kind that sits on top of a small propane tanklike the kind they use in ice shanys. Not the real small ones, the =bigger small ones(did I just say that)LOLHas anyone tried this.?Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C0A48D.EC57E0A0 Carpenterflames his cane?I seen In a book where he uses a large = distance.It gives a real nice honey color to the = this might be an alternative. MR.HEATERYou know the kind that sits on top of a= propane tanklike the kind they use in ice shanys. = small ones, the bigger small ones(did I just say that)LOLHas anyone tried this.?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C0A48D.EC57E0A0-- from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Sun Mar 4 21:06:05 2001 f25364e20924 Subject: lathe questions Thanks to all for the replies and help with the lathe.. as ever, you were abig help - cheers! Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Mar 5 04:23:01 2001 f25AMxe26724 f25AMp016611; Subject: Re: Plane Irons Danny I got my original stones (the brand is "King") from Woodcraft(woodcraft.com) in the US. Since then I have replaced them from our localgurus, Woodworks Book & Tool, in Sydney. Not that you would be buyinganything from an Australian store at this time due the parlous state of theA$. The Nawara came from the Woodcraft in the US - good people to dobusiness with. Mind you, I am a majority shareholder in this company, withover a billion dollars sitting on the shelves in masking tape alone! :-) Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Plane Irons Peter, Where did You got Your waterstones/Nawara from? I have found oneimporterofJapanes knifes here, and he also have some waterstones. But i have beenbrowsing his brochure, and there are so many different types withdifferentcolors..... Is there any brand names on Yours? I've been sharpening with a red diamond stone, and ceramic stone fromSpyderco. The latter is a wast of money though..... I too prefer the Record over Stanley, mostly because it fits my handbetter.i used the Stanley only on my first rod. I use the Record from roughthroughout final planning with the standard iron. but I have ordered a A2 from hock.... regardsdanny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Mar 5 04:31:29 2001 f25AVRe26914 f25AUX017479; Subject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? Tim Um, do just WHAT, exactly? Incidentally, Tony Young's bench is in a commodious annexe to his house, isabout as big as Hugh Hefner's en suite, looks out over a lovely nativegarden in Perth, which has a climate they would envy in Florida; when hewakes in the morning, in his shed, he has a considerably shorter distance totraverse to get to the pool than do those members of the family stilldomiciled under the main roof. You need never feel terribly sorry for poor old Tony, languishing out therein his shed - I think the hardest task in Tony's life is preventing his wife from finding out just how good it is out there! :-) Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? i suggest you not do it in the house. if you do youwill be sleeping on your work bench like me and tonyyoung. :-) timothy --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Anyone tried ammonia toning in a Neunemann type heatgun oven? Anyspecial tricks or ideas on how to get the ammoniumcarbonate in?Currently, the bottom end of mine is notconveniently removable, but Isuppose it could be fixed up to do that, if that'swhat it would take. thanks - mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Mar 5 05:03:15 2001 f25B3Fe27444 Subject: Test, ignore f25B3Fe27445 Test from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 05:53:15 2001 f25BrFe28054 2001 03:53:16 PST Subject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? "rod 'akers" peter, sounds like the sort of regection you could getuse to.timothy --- Peter McKean wrote:Tim Incidentally, Tony Young's bench is in a commodiousannexe to his house, isabout as big as Hugh Hefner's en suite, looks outover a lovely nativegarden in Perth, which has a climate they would envyin Florida; when hewakes in the morning, in his shed, he has aconsiderably shorter distance totraverse to get to the pool than do those members ofthe family stilldomiciled under the main roof. You need never feel terribly sorry for poor oldTony, languishing out therein his shed - I think the hardest task in Tony'slife is preventing his wife from finding out just how good it is out there! :-) Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "timothy troester" Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:33 PMSubject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? i suggest you not do it in the house. if you doyouwill be sleeping on your work bench like me andtonyyoung. :-) timothy --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Anyone tried ammonia toning in a Neunemann typeheatgun oven? Anyspecial tricks or ideas on how to get theammoniumcarbonate in?Currently, the bottom end of mine is notconveniently removable, but Isuppose it could be fixed up to do that, ifthat'swhat it would take. thanks - mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 08:28:56 2001 f25ESte00457 2001 06:28:57 PST Subject: Re: Earthquake Earthquake newsgroup ? --- Tom Bowden wrote:I have to report the first rodmaking "near-miss" from the Seattleearthquake. On wednesday night (after theearthquake) I dipped my latestrod - an 8' Gillum using a taper from the list. Ihung it to dry in mymake-shift "cabinet" - a cardboard wardrobe box witha 200 watt light bulb.On the way to work thursday morning, I heard we hadan aftershock at 4am.I'd slept through it, so I figured it hadn't doneany damage. After dinner I went out to the garage to check therod, and found to myhorror that both sections had fallen off the bar inthe cabinet! The twosections were lightly stuck together, so it musthave happened during theaftershock while the varnish was still a bit wet.Fortunately this was thefirst coat and I normally sand most of it offanyway, so no harm done. So, my cardboard drying cabinet setup isn'tearthquake-proof. And I'll betthe experienced west coast rodmakers wisely avoidedvarnishing after anearthquake. I guess us rookies have to learn thehard way! Seriously, the earthquake was very frightening and Ifeel fortunate that myfamily, house, and office suffered no damage. Theroad to one of myfavorite cutthroat beaches on Puget Sound wasdamaged, but that's soinsignificant compared to what might have happened. Tom __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 5 10:13:45 2001 f25GDie04975 Subject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Well... a bit of sympathy wouldn't hurt. I mean, crickey. The nearest troutare an hrs drive away for crying out loud and if the ph of the pool is out you know :-) Tony Incidentally, Tony Young's bench is in a commodious annexe to his house, isabout as big as Hugh Hefner's en suite, looks out over a lovely nativegarden in Perth, which has a climate they would envy in Florida; when hewakes in the morning, in his shed, he has a considerably shorter distance totraverse to get to the pool than do those members of the family stilldomiciled under the main roof. You need never feel terribly sorry for poor old Tony, languishing out therein his shed - I think the hardest task in Tony's life is preventing his wife from finding out just how good it is out there! :-) Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "timothy troester" Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:33 PMSubject: Re: Ammonia toning in heat gun oven? i suggest you not do it in the house. if you do youwill be sleeping on your work bench like me and tonyyoung. :-) timothy --- Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Anyone tried ammonia toning in a Neunemann type heatgun oven? Anyspecial tricks or ideas on how to get the ammoniumcarbonate in?Currently, the bottom end of mine is notconveniently removable, but Isuppose it could be fixed up to do that, if that'swhat it would take. thanks - mac ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from jczimny@dol.net Mon Mar 5 11:18:23 2001 f25HINe07953 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Daly's Inc. Can any of the list bretheren from the NorthWest get me a phone numberand address of Daly's Inc? They make a fine line of varnishes andpaints. I have and old address but no phone number.Thanks,John Z from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Mar 5 11:42:17 2001 f25Hg2e09076 Subject: Re:Ammonia Toning in heat gun oven? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0A50C.BB5256A0 away LOL. 4 hour round trip.You have it made! LOLHave funTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0A50C.BB5256A0 Tony Your lucky, the nearest stream to me is= away LOL. 4 hour round =trip.You have it made! LOLHave funTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0A50C.BB5256A0-- from partrick@intrex.net Mon Mar 5 11:54:59 2001 f25Hswe09827 Subject: Thread tension! Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Mar 5 12:01:24 2001 f25I1Ne10217 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:01:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Toning (Flaming) f25I1Oe10218 I use a Mr. Heater to warm my work area, and also in warming node areas tobe straightened with the vise. Mr. Heater doesn't produce a flame like atorch does, but rather uses an element which gets red hot and a hood todirect the heat. For warming nodes Mr. Heater works pretty fast withoutthe excessive charing I get with flame heat. A torch is much faster forflaming, and held at whatever distance you desire will produce a honey coloror a dark color. I think you would be better served for flaming if you use atorch. Chris "Tony Miller" 03/04/01 06:31AM >>>Have you guys ever seen how Walt Carpenterflames his cane?I seen In a book where he uses a large flame at a distance.It gives a real nice honey color to the cane. Maybe this might be analternative.I was going to try to use a propane MR.HEATERYou know the kind that sits on top of a small propane tanklike the kind they use in ice shanys. Not the real small ones, the bigger smallones(did I just say that)LOLHas anyone tried this.?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Mar 5 12:04:49 2001 f25I4de10437 Subject: Re: Daly's Inc. Good Morning John,Daly's phone no. is (206)633-4200.Their address is 3525 Stoneway North, Seattle, WA 98103.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- Subject: Daly's Inc. Can any of the list bretheren from the NorthWest get me a phone numberand address of Daly's Inc? They make a fine line of varnishes andpaints. I have and old address but no phone number.Thanks,John Z from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Mar 5 12:05:58 2001 f25I5re10570 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:05:27 -0800 Subject: Re: Daly's Inc. f25I5we10571 Here is address/phone number for Daly's Wood Finishing Products inTumwater, WA. 6528 Capitol Blvd SETumwater, WA 98501(360) 943-3232 "J. C. Zimny" 03/05/01 09:20AM >>>Can any of the list bretheren from the NorthWest get me a phone numberand address of Daly's Inc? They make a fine line of varnishes andpaints. I have and old address but no phone number.Thanks,John Z from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 5 12:25:50 2001 f25IPne11705 Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:28:55 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Thread tension! Jerry Partrick wrote: Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry from rmcelvain@uswest.net Mon Mar 5 12:52:40 2001 f25Iqde12909 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.4.162) Subject: Re: Thread tension! Anglers Workshop catalog, page 71. www.anglerworkshop.comBob McElvain At 12:54 PM 3/5/01 -0500, you wrote:Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Mar 5 13:06:27 2001 f25J6Le13583 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: para 11 & Hauling This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C0A5A7.64BFE860 Stuart -- I very, very rarely double hauled while fishing until about four years ago.Sure, when doing casting demos, I would use it for the extra distance, and Iwas apparentlly proficient enough during my casting instructor certificationtests to please the masters, but I just never used it unless I felt I had noother choice. Well that has changed, happy to say. Since I moved to Texasand started fishing the Gulf Coast for redfish and speckled trout and such,I have had multiple opportunities to spend 14 continuous hours wade fishingthe flats, doing nothing but blind casting for 13-1/2 of those hours. Anddouble hauling for that long starts to become second nature. You work thetiming out in your subconscious, and then you go trout fishing on a smallstream with a buddy, and he asks you why you're hauling on a 3 weight tocast only 30 feet. Then you watch yourself, and realize that he's right,you are making a tiny haul..... Now to be honest, I'm pretty much a bamboo virgin. I've had a couple ofcane rods for about ten years, and have fished them maybe six times total.So I don't profess to be an expert concerning use of the haul with anydesign of cane, para or otherwise. But I do find that I get even morebenefit out of hauling with fiberglass than I do with graphites..... Iexpect that this is even more true with cane, which I plan to test withgreater regularity in the future. Here is an article written by Mel Krieger, that appeared on the cover of thelast newsletter "The Loop", sent to casting instructors by the FFF. Iresound his arguments without exception, especially the third-to- lastparagraph. To me, the reason I believe that I have incorporated a haul intoall of my casting, is that I now have intimate feel and control of the lineat all times, and both hands can feel the loading rather than just the rodhand. The slack in the system goes away. I know that hauling is not for everyone, nor it is necessary for manyapplications. But the more you use it, the more you appreciate it, at anydistance. I believe that the overall experience of fly casting is made moreenjoyable by achieving complete control over line and rod. Hauling enhancescontrol of both, IMHO. Encourage alternate views..... TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: para 11 Hi everybody, Speaking of double hauling, I have a friend (graphite user at the moment)whodouble hauls all his casts for some reason, it seems to suit him so that'sfine,but I was wondering if there is a taper that is recommended by those of youwhodo double haul (I don't have to in the river I fish in) on a regular basisandthat is suited to this type of casting. Does double hauling place morestress ona rod than normal casting does? Stuart nobler wrote: Thanks Tim for putting the Para #11 on the list. I just noticed an error,inthat the 6.5' dimension at the tip ferrule, should read 6.5". I know many covet only short rods, but this was my first PHY, and I stilllove to cast and fish it ! It is pure simple pleasure to double haul andshoot a bug with so little effort. GMA\par The single and double haul, relatively simple maneuvers involving =a line-hand pull in conjunction with a casting stroke, have become an =integral part of fly casting and fishing. A.J. McClane called the =double haul \ldblquote the greatest contribution to casting technique =in the last century\rdblquote . This important and easily learned =movement has been dissected and analyzed to such an extent that many =learners are bewildered by what appear to be conflicting instructions. \par Pull long! - Pull short! - Pull fast! - Pull slow! - Pull =early! - Pull late! -- are just some of the commands coming down = from our casting gurus. Like other aspects of casting, these widely =varying styles, in the right hands and often with further explanation, =work pretty well. \par Tournament casters know that longer and faster line-hand pulls =(within a given casting stroke) result in more line speed and longer =casts. Some years ago, not long after the double haul was introduced, =Jim Green tells the story of casters attempting to use a cleverly =rigged short pole as an extension of their line-hand in order to get a =longer faster line-hand pull. Recently, Eddie Bosomworth, a New =Zealand tournament caster and fisher, invented a pulley arrangement for =the line-hand that increases the speed and length of the line-hand =pull. (The e-mail address of Eddie Bosomworth is }{\i =superhaul@paradise.net.nz).}{ Alas, I suspect that both of these =techniques are considered illegal in tournament casting and would have =limited usage in fishing. On a more practical level, let\rquote s =examine the line-hand pull as it relates to a complete casting stroke. \par All casting strokes begin by pulling the entire line into motion. =This is true whether you are lifting line from the water or between =back and forward casts. Pulling the line from the water starts with =straightening and then planing the fly line to lessen the surface =tension. (Lifting all or part of the fly line before or in conjunction =with the straightening and planing is an important part of a water =pick-up.) Between back and forward casts there are always a few =wrinkles that must be straightened to pull the whole fly line into =motion. Only Steve Rajeff and perhaps God have a perfectly straight =fly line between every cast. In both the water pick-up and between =back and forward casts, the line-hand pull at the beginning of the =casting stroke helps to establish that straight-line position. This =permits the flyrod to begin loading and accelerating the line earlier =in the casting stroke, a distinct advantage. \par The middle of the casting stroke consists of loading (bending) the =fly rod and increasingly accelerating the fly line. The line-hand pull =in this stage of a casting stroke forces additional bend (load) into =the rod and / or reduces the work of the rod hand. At the same time, =it accelerates the fly line, obviously an important function of the =haul. \par The end of the casting stroke takes place at the \ldblquote =stop\rdblquote - when the rod unloads -- when the rod tip and the =fly line are moving at their maximum speed, just before the fly line is = accelerates the line at this final stage of the casting stroke; it is = \par We must conclude that the line-hand haul (pull) is advantageous at =every stage of the casting stroke -- from start to finish! It follows =that the haul would be most effective if it begins and ends at exactly =the same time as the casting stroke starts and stops; both hands =starting at the same time and ending at the same time. A further =advantage of both hands starting and ending at the same time is that it =is a very simple and natural movement, and as such, easier to learn and = \par Most fly fishers still think of the line-hand haul as solely a =method for increasing distance, and may not recognize that it produces =additional and equally important advantages. The increased line speed =improves line control at all distances -- control that aids in =presenting the fly, overcoming wind conditions, threading a backcast =through or over obstacles, unrolling long leaders and much more. The =line-hand pull reduces the work of the rod hand and offers most casters =another important benefit -- added control of the fly line between the =line-hand and the first guide of the fly rod. A line-hand trained in =the double haul automatically maintains the taut line required for good = \par The equal movement and symmetry of both hands working in opposite =directions results in an additional advantage -- superior overall body =balance that enhances comfort, efficiency, and velocity. A sideways =glance at other sports might make this point clearer. The karate =fighter who punches with one hand while pulling the other hand back =maintains body balance, at the same time increasing the velocity of his =punching hand. It is a truism in almost all sports from a golf swing =to a discus throw. Dr. Anthony Stellar, president of a biomechanical =company that specialized in sports, once explained that the equal and =opposite movement of a line-hand pull could increase the speed of the =rod hand and the line -- even if the line-hand did not hold the line! \par Our clinics have a high rate of success using pantomime exercises =(hand and arm motions without the rod and line) to teach the double =haul. After 15 minutes or so of the pantomime training, students cast =a shortened shooting taper (about 25 feet) with monofilament running =line. We use a brightly colored floating shooting head as it is easier =to see and the timing is a bit slower than sinking lines. Students =love it! \par }{\i Mel Krieger founded the FFF\rquote s Casting Instructor =Certification Program in 1992.\par }}------ _=_NextPart_000_01C0A5A7.64BFE860-- from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Mar 5 13:12:05 2001 f25JC0e13885 Subject: Re:Toning Flaming This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0A519.4C90D720 Thanks ChrisJust thought I might try it in the future.Your expereince on the subject was useful to me.I think I'll take your advice and stick to torch.Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0A519.4C90D720 Thanks Chris future.Your expereince on the subject was = me.I think I'll take your advice and stick = torch.TonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0A519.4C90D720-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Mar 5 13:13:38 2001 f25JDae14077 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Thread tension! Jerry,You can get suitable tensioners from a Sewing machine repair or supplyshop. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Thread tension! Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry from iank@ts.co.nz Mon Mar 5 13:15:25 2001 f25JFNe14249 Subject: the reason why Tony Y visits me most year's, was Ammonia Toning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0A615.67FE0A80 Wow Tony's, And I sometimes think I am hard done by only having three streams to =choose from within 10 minutes drive of home and having to drive 35 =minutes for a choice of 10. :)) Ian Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 6:39 PMSubject: Re:Ammonia Toning in heat gun oven? away LOL. 4 hour round trip.You have it made! LOLHave funTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0A615.67FE0A80 Wow Tony's, And I sometimes think I am hard done three streams to choose from within 10 minutes drive of home and having = Ian ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 = PMSubject: Re:Ammonia Toning in = oven? Tony Your lucky, the nearest stream to me= away LOL. 4 hour round =trip.You have it made! LOLHave funTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0A615.67FE0A80-- from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Mar 5 13:49:56 2001 f25Jnpe16239 Subject: Re: Rattan Grip This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C0A51E.9620AE60 Let me know if you need their phone no#.I'll forward you the specifics that I postedTony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C0A51E.9620AE60 no#. postedTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C0A51E.9620AE60-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Mar 5 13:50:55 2001 f25Jose16391 Subject: OT: Feathers of yore Several members wrote for more info on the fly tying section of the 1951catalogue, so I scanned in the feather section and put it in my Extractssection. 1961 was just after the U.S. banned new imports of many exoticspecies so it is of interest for those who never used Marabou storkfeathers and such.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Mar 5 14:01:10 2001 f25K19e17020 Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:00:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Thread tension! Jerry,You could do a lot worse than buying some springs and large (fender)washers at your local hardware store. Be creative, and rig up a way totension the spool itself rather than the thread. Many folks find thatplacing tension on the thread increases the fuzzies. Harry Boyd Jerry Partrick wrote: Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 5 14:01:40 2001 f25K1ce17116 Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:04:48 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Thread tension! This should of read,Try a sewing machine repair shop.I bought 4 used ones for .50 cents each. They work just fine.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Jerry Partrick wrote: Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Mar 5 16:01:07 2001 f25M16e22743 f25M17907375 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: PHY Para 16 taper hey y'all, i've been offline for a little over a week, so i appologize ifi've missed something. did the elusive Para 16 taper ever surface? if it did, will someone send it to me. i think that i have all of theothers (at least the general production tapers - certainly not the one-offspecial projects mr. young produced). thanks in advance. chris from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Mar 5 16:11:44 2001 f25MBge23311 f25MBT044759; Subject: Re: Wetstones DannyThere are times when I am a bit embarrassed to admit things, and thisbusiness of keeping the stones flat is one of those. I often say that I amobsessive, and in most cases I am only half joking when I say it; this isdefinitely one of those times when the old obsession shows its ugly snoutabove the slime!I keep the four stones (two are red, two are white, incidentally, to answerthe bit of your question I didn't answer yesterday) in a tray of water nextto the portable bench on which I sharpen, and there is a tap next to thebench, and a 10 litre bucket full of water under the tap.So I start sharpening on the 800 grit stone, and when I can palpate theburr, I am ready to switch to the 1200.I then pick up the 1200, and with the 800 still on the bench top, I lap itwith the 1200 stone until all the metal and crap has been lapped away.Then I put the 800 in the bucket, after rinsing it under the running waterto get all the free slop off it.I use the 1200, and when I am finished with it, I lap it with the 800 asbefore, rinse it, and return it to the tray.Ditto with the 6000 and the 8000 - I just lap them flat with the 800 assoon as I have used them, and before I put them away.It actually takes very little time, gets your hands wet, which is perhapsnot so much fun in the winter, but I ALWAYS have flat stones.It's a lot like my philosophy of sharpening irons - if you do a little oftenand reliably, you never have a major rework always looming.How's the trip planning, Danny? Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wetstones Peter, Thanks, one more: How do You keep Your stones flat? regardsdanny from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Mar 5 16:31:32 2001 f25MVUe24199 Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:31:22 -0800 Subject: Brief book review Friends,Just finished reading Kat Scott's "Moose on the Water,Bamboo on the Bench" and wanted to share some quick thoughtswith you.This wonderful little book chronicles eight months inthe life of husband and wife team David van Burgel and KatScott, members of this list, and at the time of writing thebook, relative newcomers to the world of bamboo rodmaking.Though Kat is the author, their Maine and Michigan homes,and David's exploits in building a bamboo rod for a friendare the subject matters. Kat freely shares her love of wildthings and wild places, and her love of the connectionbamboo rods give those places.Kat lays bare her heart, making clear the rejuvenatingeffects that immersion in a detailed project can have onone's soul. Many of the names and stories will be familiarto regular readers of this list. Heck, we even get somepretty good press out of it!!My highest recommendations go out for this short work,not for those seeking a how-to manual on rodmaking, but forthose of us who are hobbyists and amateurs, building rodsbecause we love the process. Usual disclaimers apply,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Mar 5 16:49:10 2001 f25Mn4e25318 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 14:48:59 -0800 Subject: Book Question f25MnAe25323 Speaking of bamboo books I came across a title at a bookstore thisafternoon. "Secret Fresh and Salt Water Fishing Tricks of The World's Fifty BestProfessional Fishermen".Authored by George Leonard Herter and Jacques P. Herter. I looked through the book and roughly 1/3 to * is dedicated to bamboo rodbuilding, with some history as well. The remainder is glass rod building. Mymain question is for anyone who knows of the book, where in the world didthat title come from? Is it part of a set of books by Herter? The title justdoesn't make sense given the content. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Mar 5 17:10:19 2001 f25NAIe26135 Subject: Re: Brief book review f25NAIe26138 I have to say that I concur. I started reading her book last evening andcouldn't put it down until I finished it last night!!! "almost neighbors" with Kat and David since I live in Central Maine, about ahalf an hour from them. I just met both of them this past weekend, when they stopped by my fly shopto say hello and show me an electric beveler. Kat was also kind enough tosign a copy of her book for me. I highly recommend the book to anyone who flyfishes, makes rods and lovesnature. That's my 2 cents worth. John K-----Original Message----- Subject: Brief book review Friends,Just finished reading Kat Scott's "Moose on the Water,Bamboo on the Bench" and wanted to share some quick thoughtswith you.This wonderful little book chronicles eight months inthe life of husband and wife team David van Burgel and KatScott, members of this list, and at the time of writing thebook, relative newcomers to the world of bamboo rodmaking.Though Kat is the author, their Maine and Michigan homes,and David's exploits in building a bamboo rod for a friendare the subject matters. Kat freely shares her love of wildthings and wild places, and her love of the connectionbamboo rods give those places.Kat lays bare her heart, making clear the rejuvenatingeffects that immersion in a detailed project can have onone's soul. Many of the names and stories will be familiarto regular readers of this list. Heck, we even get somepretty good press out of it!!My highest recommendations go out for this short work,not for those seeking a how-to manual on rodmaking, but forthose of us who are hobbyists and amateurs, building rodsbecause we love the process. Usual disclaimers apply,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from GriffinJohn@msn.com Mon Mar 5 18:50:57 2001 f260oue28710 Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:50:46 -0800 "Rodmakers List" Subject: Re: Cane Tension =_NextPart_001_0004_01C0A5AE.5054C840" FILETIME=[7B0A5400:01C0A5D7] ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0A5AE.5054C840 Hi Jerry: If you're looking for something a little more complete, I believe that An=glers Workshop carries a number of different motorized and manual rod win=ding set ups. The most intriguing device uses flexible wands (like rod ti=ps) to maintain thread tension. I would have bought it on the spot, but it didn't use cane tips! John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Thread tension! Jerry,You can get suitable tensioners from a Sewing machine repair or suppl=yshop. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Thread tension! Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0A5AE.5054C840 Hi mplete, I believe that Anglers Workshop carries a number of different mot=orized and manual rod winding set ups. The most intriguing device uses fl= Nunl= March = = Sewin=g machine repair or supplyshop.Later,Bob-----Original= =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu nday, March 05, 2001 11:59 AMSubject: Thread Get yourFREE down=load of MSN Explorer at http://explor=er.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0A5AE.5054C840-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Mar 5 19:01:41 2001 f2611ee29183 Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:01:36 -0500 "GriffinJohn@msn.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Cane Tension --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5080016=_=_=_ John Good thing - it is a POS for cane rod builders - anything that touchesthe silk as it comes off the spool will make your wraps look like the S in POS!! Chris --Original Message Text--- Hi Jerry: If you're looking for something a little more complete, I believe that AnglersWorkshop carries a number of different motorized and manual rod windingset ups. The most intriguing device uses flexible wands (like rod tips) to maintainthread tension. I would have bought it on the spot, but it didn't use cane tips! John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Thread tension! Jerry,You can get suitable tensioners from a Sewing machine repair or supplyshop. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Thread tension! Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5080016=_=_=_ John Good thing - it is a POS for cane rod builders - anything that touchesthe silk as it comes off the spool will make your wraps look like the S inPOS!! Chris --Original Message Text---From: John GriffinDate: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:56:05 -0500 Hi Jerry: If you're looking for something a little more complete, I believe that AnglersWorkshop carries a number of different motorized and manual rod windingset ups. The most intriguing device uses flexible wands (like rod tips) tomaintain thread tension. I would have bought it on the spot, but it didn't use cane tips! John ----- Original Message -----From: Bob NunleySent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: Re: Thread tension! Jerry,You can get suitable tensioners from a Sewing machine repair orsupplyshop. Later,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Thread tension! am Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5080016=_=_=_-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 5 20:17:19 2001 f262HGe01195 Subject: Re: the reason why Tony Y visits me most year's, was AmmoniaToning Well I said living in Perth isn't all beer and skittles :-) Tony At 08:14 AM 3/6/01 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote: Wow Tony's, And I sometimes think I am hard done by only having three streams tochoose from within 10 minutes drive of home and having to drive 35 minutes for achoice of 10. :)) Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Miller Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: Re:Ammonia Toning in heat gun oven? Tony Your lucky, the nearest stream to me is Two hours away LOL. 4 hour round trip. You have it made! LOL Have fun Tony Miller /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 5 21:21:07 2001 f263L5e02651 Subject: link to pic of "The Great Southern mkII" Anybody interested in a pic featuring the assembled participants of theeither 1st or 2nd Antipodean Great Southern gathering of rodmakers canseeit here:http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/rm_nz.jpg This wasn't *actually* the first gathering of it's type. This pic was takenin Dec 2000 but there was a previous gathering in Dec 1999 where approx 4- 5people attended but not all at the same time. In fact Ian was the onlyperson present at all times while everybody did a sort of swing shift toattend :-)At least in the 2000 meet a pic was possible. The people from left to right are:Ian Kearney who always make visiting when in the Shaky Isles a must. Livingin Nelson where the climate is terrific and the fishing first class. Youcould be forgiven for thinking the pic was taken in a botanical garden somewhere but it is in fact a section of Ian's front garden. The tennis courtis about 100 yards to the left. Actually, I think it was the botanicalgarden :-) In any event the problem with visiting Ian and Nova is it's hardto get off your backside and do that fishing stuff when you could just sortof lounge around a bit. Middle is Mike Roberts who hails from the Dark Side of the force being akitchen oven and scarf jig fan (makes his rods nodeless). This was Mike'sfirst trip to NZ so he had no idea as to the smorgasbord of scenery he wasin for and that was just at Ian's place so you can imaging what it was like One of the best things about NZ (apart from Ian's place that is) is it's soeasy to get around and you get the feeling it's completely out of touchwith the 20-21st century.The country side is magnificent and the fishing is great with almost totalfreedom of access to fishing in recognized fishing areas.I don't think Mike believed me about just how many places there are to justpick a nice spot of stream or river, park the car and fish. Last on the right is yours truly. One other very nice thing about visiting NZ (yes, there's more) is theexchange rate. It's worse than Australia's currently at about $0.42 to the$US1. A hire car costs about $NZ 45 per day so that's about $US 19 a day.Book for the Great Southern 2001 now! Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html The node has been torn.The iron that was not sharp.Time, effort wasted.This strip is now trash. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 5 21:39:28 2001 f263dSe03250 Subject: Re: Wetstones I do what someone on the list suggested a couple of years ago. I have a piece of glass (about 3 1/2" inches wide and 18" long) that I set the waterstone upon. Before I use either side, I scrub the glass with it. The glass becomes frosted and laps the stone keeping it very flat. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 09:10 AM 3/6/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote:DannyThere are times when I am a bit embarrassed to admit things, and thisbusiness of keeping the stones flat is one of those. I often say that I amobsessive, and in most cases I am only half joking when I say it; this isdefinitely one of those times when the old obsession shows its ugly snoutabove the slime!I keep the four stones (two are red, two are white, incidentally, to answerthe bit of your question I didn't answer yesterday) in a tray of water nextto the portable bench on which I sharpen, and there is a tap next to thebench, and a 10 litre bucket full of water under the tap.So I start sharpening on the 800 grit stone, and when I can palpate theburr, I am ready to switch to the 1200.I then pick up the 1200, and with the 800 still on the bench top, I lap itwith the 1200 stone until all the metal and crap has been lapped away.Then I put the 800 in the bucket, after rinsing it under the running waterto get all the free slop off it.I use the 1200, and when I am finished with it, I lap it with the 800 asbefore, rinse it, and return it to the tray.Ditto with the 6000 and the 8000 - I just lap them flat with the 800 assoon as I have used them, and before I put them away.It actually takes very little time, gets your hands wet, which is perhapsnot so much fun in the winter, but I ALWAYS have flat stones.It's a lot like my philosophy of sharpening irons - if you do a little oftenand reliably, you never have a major rework always looming.How's the trip planning, Danny? Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "danny twang" Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:42 PMSubject: Wetstones Peter, Thanks, one more: How do You keep Your stones flat? regardsdanny from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Mar 5 22:01:19 2001 f2641He04048 Subject: Re: Dickerson 6611 --part1_bb.c4637a0.27d5bafd_boundary Here are a couple pictures of Dickerson rods, that I had in myshop last year. I've got quite a few pictures of his rods, if you wantto see any more, just let me know. Dave LeClair from SBDunn@aol.com Mon Mar 5 22:48:43 2001 f264mSe05255 Subject: Re: Book Question --part1_3b.114ee094.27d5c607_boundary I have a 1965 "First Edition" - 416 pages and a 1961 "10th" edition - 206 pages. First edition newer than the old one? Both books share the same introduction.... "This book was not written with the thought of expressing any personal opinions. Rather it was brought out to express the thoughts of many noteworthy men in the rod building field. "This book is not intended to be a literary piece of work in any sense of the word. The author does not make any pretense at being a polished writer." I suspect that he consulted with 50ish rod builders to write the book. Regards, Steve. --part1_3b.114ee094.27d5c607_boundary I have a 1965 "FirstEdition" - 416 pages and a 1961 "10th" edition - 206 share the same introduction.... "This book was not written with the thought of expressing any personal many noteworthy men in the rod building field. "This book is not intended to be a literary piece of work in any sense ofthe writer." I suspect that he consulted with 50ish rod builders to write the book. Regards, Steve. --part1_3b.114ee094.27d5c607_boundary-- from Finanplanr@aol.com Mon Mar 5 23:09:57 2001 f2659ve06000 Subject: Pennsylvania Rod Meeting? --part1_c4.10addeb5.27d5cb14_boundary I seem to recall a recent mention of a rodmaker's gathering in Valley Forge, PA. Does anyone know the specifics on that? Thanks,Stuart Kirkfield --part1_c4.10addeb5.27d5cb14_boundary I seem to recall a recentmention of a rodmaker's gathering in Valley Forge, Thanks,Stuart Kirkfield --part1_c4.10addeb5.27d5cb14_boundary-- from Spico81@aol.com Tue Mar 6 00:14:50 2001 f266Ene07638 Subject: finish sanding enamel --part1_5e.81421ad.27d5da52_boundary When finish sanding the enamel on a rod what sort of colour should I be looking for to indicate that I should stop sanding? Thanks --part1_5e.81421ad.27d5da52_boundary When finish sanding theenamel on a rod what sort of colour should I be looking for to indicate that I should stop sanding?Thanks --part1_5e.81421ad.27d5da52_boundary-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Mar 6 00:27:20 2001 f266REe08149 Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:09:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Dickerson 6611 Dave, Are those Ray Bergman's rods? Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: LECLAIR123@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:01 PMSubject: Re: Dickerson 6611 Here are a couple pictures of Dickerson rods, that I had in myshop last year. I've got quite a few pictures of his rods, if you wantto see any more, just let me know. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Mar 6 00:46:39 2001 f266kde08769 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Dickerson 6611 rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Dave, I'm looking for photos of various rods for my photo gallery page. Would youmind if I added your pic to my page? It's at www.vfish.net/gallery.htm Darrell -----Original Message----- LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: Dickerson 6611 Here are a couple pictures of Dickerson rods, that I had in myshop last year. I've got quite a few pictures of his rods, if you wantto see any more, just let me know. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Mar 6 01:50:55 2001 f267ote09842 Subject: H.L.Leonard This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BA_01C0A583.2C6095C0 Has anyone seen the pictures of the H.L. Leonard Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_00BA_01C0A583.2C6095C0 Has anyone seen the pictures of the = LeonardBaby Catskill (2001)? I'd like to see = anyone has them. TonyMiller ------=_NextPart_000_00BA_01C0A583.2C6095C0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Mar 6 05:14:02 2001 f26BE1e11804 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Wetstones I use a diamond stone to keep the waterstones flat. Works very fast.Marty I do what someone on the list suggested a couple of years ago. I have apiece of glass (about 3 1/2" inches wide and 18" long) that I set thewaterstone upon. Before I use either side, I scrub the glass with it. Theglass becomes frosted and laps the stone keeping it very flat. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 09:10 AM 3/6/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote:DannyThere are times when I am a bit embarrassed to admit things, and thisbusiness of keeping the stones flat is one of those. I often say that I amobsessive, and in most cases I am only half joking when I say it; this isdefinitely one of those times when the old obsession shows its ugly snoutabove the slime!I keep the four stones (two are red, two are white, incidentally, to answerthe bit of your question I didn't answer yesterday) in a tray of water nextto the portable bench on which I sharpen, and there is a tap next to thebench, and a 10 litre bucket full of water under the tap.So I start sharpening on the 800 grit stone, and when I can palpate theburr, I am ready to switch to the 1200.I then pick up the 1200, and with the 800 still on the bench top, I lap itwith the 1200 stone until all the metal and crap has been lapped away.Then I put the 800 in the bucket, after rinsing it under the running waterto get all the free slop off it.I use the 1200, and when I am finished with it, I lap it with the 800 asbefore, rinse it, and return it to the tray.Ditto with the 6000 and the 8000 - I just lap them flat with the 800 assoon as I have used them, and before I put them away.It actually takes very little time, gets your hands wet, which is perhapsnot so much fun in the winter, but I ALWAYS have flat stones.It's a lot like my philosophy of sharpening irons - if you do a little oftenand reliably, you never have a major rework always looming.How's the trip planning, Danny? Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "danny twang" Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:42 PMSubject: Wetstones Peter, Thanks, one more: How do You keep Your stones flat? regardsdanny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Mar 6 05:44:51 2001 f26Bine12468 f26Bif043341; Subject: Re: Wetstones I don't know, Danny. How hard is an A2 blade on the Rockwell scale?It's a breeze to sharpen standard Hock irons on the waterstones; it's easyenough to sharpen High Speed Steel, though a little slower than the Hocks(which are about 62 Rockwell): and it's not possible to sharpentungsten/carbide at all. The best I could manage with that was to give it alittle bit of a polish.In fact, when I trialled some plane irons for Woodworks Book and Tool, Iwas completely underwhelmed by their Tu/C only for that reason - I couldn'tsharpen them on my present stones, and as a hobbyist was not about to toolup with a lot of new tech various coloured stones just to sharpen theblades.I suspect that the A2's are probably HSS, so if that's the case you'll befine.Incidentally, you can lap waterstones against one another when they are worndown a bit, but it's probably easier to flatten them initially on a seriesof wet and dry sandpaper sheets on a base of plate glass. I used to do thiswith them dry, but that is a really dusty experience, so finished up doingit wet.However, I really think my current practice is easier in the long haul.Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wetstones Peter, I don't think this is something to be embarrassed of, it seems like abloodysimple and genius way of doing it!! It is of course important to do this from the stones are new...... All the planning for NZ is slowly progressing, its a very "byrocratique"(spelling) country to get into. If everything works out, we will be livingin late July or beginning of August.. thanks for Your help.danny BTW will the waterstones be able to sharpen A2 irons? from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Mar 6 06:24:29 2001 f26COTe12910 Subject: Great Southern pic Tony:I appreciate you putting faces on familiar names.Hope to meet with you all some day.Ed from thogan@rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 6 10:00:55 2001 f26G0se18380 f26Fvuw16826 Subject: Varnish prior to handle and seat? Could I varnish the butt end prior to adding the handle and real seat? I canstop just into where the handle would begin so any glue would attach better.ThanksTaylor from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Mar 6 11:39:20 2001 f26HdJe22453 0500 Subject: RE: Pennsylvania Rod Meeting? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A664.138E30C0 If you mean the Fly Fishing Show it was generic fly fishing and was this pastweekend. -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Finanplanr@aol.com Subject: Pennsylvania Rod Meeting? I seem to recall a recent mention of a rodmaker's gathering in Valley Forge, PA. Does anyone know the specifics on that? Thanks, Stuart Kirkfield ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A664.138E30C0 If you mean the Fly Fishing Show it was generic fly fishing and was this past weekend. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Finanplanr@aol.comSent: Tuesday, March 06, 200112:10 Pennsylvania Rod Meeting?I seem to recall a recent mention of a rodmaker's gathering in Valley Forge, PA. Stuart Kirkfield ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A664.138E30C0-- from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Mar 6 13:03:32 2001 f26J3We25955 0500 Subject: RE: Thread tension! There is a place that was just given to me by a friend athttp://www.jannsnetcraft.com/ . I just ordered a tensioner sight unseen for$5.00 plus shipping (which was another $5 or so...so I just had to buy someother stuff!). I am buying it for a rod binder (for binding/gluing splines). I docurrently use just a spool with a spring tensioner system that seems to workok but wanted to try a "real" tensioner. As someone else said you can do finewithout it. Andy -----Original Message----- Subject: Thread tension! Wonder if anyone out there has a source for thread tensioners. I amconsidering building a rod binder and wondering about sources. Thanks, Jerry from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Mar 6 13:06:27 2001 f26J6Qe26188 Subject: Heat Treating Ovens I seem to recall a thread way back regarding the type of heat best suited building an oven in any event. I have access to the oven at my localpizzeria, a gas-fired commercial type, over 4 feet long. Is there anyreason that it is not an ideal solution? from djk762@earthlink.net Tue Mar 6 13:09:31 2001 f26J9Ue26436 LAA17745 Subject: Mystery rod/Leonard/Dickerson Rodmakers- Does anyone have any new info on the Mystery Rod listed in the taperarchives in the Leonard section? I cast this taper next to an originalPayne Special of the same size this weekend and found them identical.These rods are my new definition of that over -used rod term "smoothcasting". Thanks J. Foster for recommending this taper at Bishop. -David Kashuba. from anglport@con2.com Tue Mar 6 13:12:28 2001 f26JCRe26647 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Rod Meeting? Stuart,There was one two years ago in Carlisle. That's a piece away fromValleyForge, but it may be what you heard about.Art At 12:09 AM 03/06/2001 EST, Finanplanr@aol.com wrote:I seem to recall a recent mention of a rodmaker's gathering in ValleyForge, Does anyone know the specifics on that? Thanks, Stuart Kirkfield from anglport@con2.com Tue Mar 6 14:30:47 2001 f26KUke29713 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Heat Treating Ovens James,I used one for about 12 to 15 rods.Didn't notice a problem except I hadtopromise I would NEVER tell his customers he was letting me use it! I guesshe thought it was like using it to incinerate toxic waste. 8^)Art At 12:08 PM 03/06/2001 -0700, James Piotrowski wrote:I seem to recall a thread way back regarding the type of heat best suited building an oven in any event. I have access to the oven at my localpizzeria, a gas-fired commercial type, over 4 feet long. Is there anyreason that it is not an ideal solution? from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Mar 6 15:03:51 2001 f26L3je01946 Subject: New Virus Just doing my part for the list. I don't want any of those husbands tobe in even MORE trouble at home. And yes, it is legit.------------------------ If you receive an e-mail with the and attachment that is called: nakedwife.exe DO NOT OPEN. We don't have an update for our virus scan yet, but when Iget it, I will send it out. Here is the information that I just got off of McAfee's website. This worm masquerades as a Flash movie. When run, it sends itself to allrecipients in the Windows Address Book and attempts to deletes all .BMP,.COM, .DLL, .EXE, .INI, and .LOG files in the WINDOWS and WINDOWS\SYSTEMdirectories. This program is written in Visual Basic and requires the Visual Basic 6(or higher) runtime files. When run, it copies itself to a TEMPdirectory and displays a Window entitled, "Flash" which reads "JibJabLoading". It proceeds by sending a separate email message to eachrecipient in the Windows Address Book using Microsoft Outlook. Themessages appear as follows: Subject: Fw: Naked Wife Body:My wife never look like that! ;-) Best Regards, (sender's name) Attached: NakedWife.exe Choosing the HELP|ABOUT menu in the "Flash" window displays a messagebox entitled, "Flash", which reads "You're are now F**KED! (C) 20001 byBGK (Bill Gates Killer)"-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from icezeb@tutopia.com Tue Mar 6 15:26:44 2001 f26LQie02729 3AA35666000310E8 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Mar 200113:26:39 -0800 Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:26:33 +0000 Subject: clear corks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0A66C.F64B9080 I obtained very white and beautiful cork rings a while ago, when I =sanded them to form my greep these they had for under the natural color. =undoubtedly it had whitened them to him or removed the color with =something. the same thing happens me with the filling of the holes. = ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0A66C.F64B9080 = cork rings a while ago, when I sanded them to form my greep these they = under the natural color. undoubtedly it had whitened them to him or = color with something. the same thing happens me with the filling of the = ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0A66C.F64B9080-- from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Mar 6 16:39:15 2001 f26MdFe05718 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Varnish prior to handle and seat? I put a coat of varnish with my fingers(as thin as possible) as soon asthe glue is filed off the blank. I do the whole blank and then work onthe grip and hardware. I have never had a problem doing this. As theysay " If it aint broke don't fix it" Marty Could I varnish the butt end prior to adding the handle and real seat? I canstop just into where the handle would begin so any glue would attachbetter.ThanksTaylor from Kengorific@aol.com Tue Mar 6 17:13:36 2001 f26NDZe07109 Subject: silk lines Several days (weeks?) ago, someone posted a message with a side commentabout making their own silk fly lines. Prehaps they were joking. But if not, I would like to gather information on the procedure if it is available. I have been making furled leaders since I found a web site with instructions and I am very pleased with the performance. I wonder if this technique could be adapted to make a full length line? from caneman@clnk.com Tue Mar 6 18:32:09 2001 f270W4e08948 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:32:02 -0600 Subject: Ferrules Howdy... I am in need again. Anyone out there have a set of unserrated17/64ths ferrules they'd let go of? I need to buy a set and would ratherhave them not serrated, unless they're serrated for a penta. Doing arestoration and I don't have any NS that big! You know how us short rodfolks are! Tiny rods, tiny ferrules... *S* Thanks,Bob from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Mar 6 18:52:44 2001 f270qhe09404 Subject: New web site Listmember Olaf Borge has just launched his new website,www.silkflylines.com. My son Dan, who some of you know, did IMHO, agreat job creating the site (proud Father... obviously).Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Mar 6 18:58:54 2001 f270wre09759 hme0.telusplanet.net Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:58:49 -0700 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Heat Treating Ovens Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heat tempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. catch ya' Don At 12:08 PM 3/6/01 -0700, James Piotrowski wrote:I seem to recall a thread way back regarding the type of heat best suited building an oven in any event. I have access to the oven at my localpizzeria, a gas-fired commercial type, over 4 feet long. Is there anyreason that it is not an ideal solution? from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Mar 6 19:04:36 2001 f2714Ze10033 (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f2714WD29285;Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:04:32 -0500 "RODMAKERS" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: clear corks --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5080016=_=_=_ Cesar The cork is not whitened - that white stuff will wash off with water,it is the residue from a salt bath they use at the factory to treat the cork.Nota permanent thing. Best to wash the cork before using to see what it reallylooks like - it will hide flaws. Chris --Original Message Text--- Hi all: somebody knows with which material is whitened the cork. I obtained very white and beautiful cork rings a while ago, when I sanded themto form my greep these they had for under the natural color. undoubtedly it had whitened them to him or removed the colorwith something. the same thing happens me with the filling of the holes. these they are very dark. thank you Cesar --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5080016=_=_=_ Cesar The cork is not whitened - that white stuff will wash off with water,it is the residue from a salt bath they use at the factory to treat the cork.Nota permanent thing. Best to wash the cork before using to see what itreallylooks like - it will hide flaws. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Ing. Cesar ZeballosDate: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:40:48 -0300 Hi all: somebody knows with which material is whitened the cork. I obtained very white and beautiful cork rings a while ago, when I sanded themto form my greep these they had for under the natural color. undoubtedly ithad whitened them to him or removed the color with something. the samething happens me with the filling of the holes. these they are very dark. thank you Cesar --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_5080016=_=_=_-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Mar 6 19:51:24 2001 f271pNe11307 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:50:41 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: silk lines That was me. If making silk lines was as easy as making furled leaders, I'dhave a full range of lines in use already : ) While a furled leader isbasically a miniature rope (with a taper), a silk line is a braided hollowtube; kind of like a really long skinny sock. It's not the sort of thingI'd try to do manually. You need to build a weird looking contraption withtwo counter-rotating banks of eight spools of silk. Believe me, it's thekind of thing that will cost you a bit of sleep. Let me know if you needmore info. RegardsMike (the ugly on in the middle of Tony Young's photo) -----Original Message----- Subject: silk lines Several days (weeks?) ago, someone posted a message with a side commentabout making their own silk fly lines. Prehaps they were joking. But if not, I would like to gather information on the procedure if it is available. Ihave been making furled leaders since I found a web site with instructions and I am very pleased with the performance. I wonder if this technique could be adapted to make a full length line? from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Mar 6 19:58:59 2001 f271wve11590 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:57:44 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heat tempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Mar 6 20:34:35 2001 f272YYe12514 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:34:10 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: link to pic of "The Great Southern mkII" Tony's dead right. Ian and his wife Nova are some of the nicest people youcould hope to meet and New Zealand is the kind of place that makes you thinkGod must be a fly fisherman. As for the photo, handsome devils don't youthink : ) Mike from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Mar 6 21:01:27 2001 f2731Pe13319 Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:59:14 -0500 Subject: Re: New web site To Dan and Olaf:Kudos. (Okay Reed, stop grinning now.) No seriously, I am really impressed, and I must add that Olaf has the best prices (by far) on the Thebaults. I was kind of knocked for a loop on that issue. Oh well, I hope that this will get some of the non-believers out there to try silk. It really is for your own good. However, driving yourself crazy trying to make one (MIKE!) may not be in your best interest.Bob At 07:54 PM 3/6/2001 -0500, reed curry wrote:Listmember Olaf Borge has just launched his new website,www.silkflylines.com. My son Dan, who some of you know, did IMHO, agreat job creating the site (proud Father... obviously).Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Mar 6 21:08:21 2001 f2738Ge13590 Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:07:27 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: New web site Reed,tell Dan once again... a fine web site, only wish my home-grown one waslooking as good! God I love this bamboo thing!Shawn reed curry wrote: Listmember Olaf Borge has just launched his new website,www.silkflylines.com. My son Dan, who some of you know, did IMHO, agreat job creating the site (proud Father... obviously).Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from oakmere@carol.net Tue Mar 6 21:11:55 2001 f273Bte13783 Subject: RE: Moose on Water, etc. Hi Harry: I also purchased the book and enjoyed reading it very much. The context ofthe short book is enjoyable, very readable, and shares a deep affection forthe outdoors and bamboo rods. Also, just found a very good first edition ofthe Catskill Flyfisher, by Darbee and MacFrancis at a flea market. Everyonewho fishes the Catskills should read this book. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Mar 6 21:25:08 2001 f273P7e14291 Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:25:03 -0800 Subject: Re: clear corks Hello Cesar, There are two things you might try. Lemon juice is a mild bleachingagent and would be my first choice. If lemon juice does not do the job tryhydrogen peroxide, a 20% strength. It is the kind used to bleach hair. Do not use chlorine bleach. It tends to break down the fibers in softwood materials and will leave a rough finish that will need sanding. Thenyou are back where you started. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Ing. Cesar Zeballos Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 1:40 PMSubject: clear corks Hi all:somebody knows with which material is whitened the cork.I obtained very white and beautiful cork rings a while ago, when I sandedthem to form my greep these they had for under the natural color.undoubtedly it had whitened them to him or removed the color withsomething.the same thing happens me with the filling of the holes. these they are verydark.thank youCesar from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 6 21:32:07 2001 f273W6e14631 Subject: Southfield show Is anyone from my neck of the woods planning on going to Southfield and if so do you want to carpool? So. Bend,IN.Bret from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Mar 6 21:36:39 2001 f273aTe14899 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Help me!!!!! All,as many fine tapers as I have sampled, I need your help. I have beencommissioned by my wife to build a rod for my father in laws 60thbirthday.Seemssimple enough right??? The problem is, I want this to be a special rod for him,theone who stood behind me (financially and morally) when I chose to startbuilding rodsads a business as well as a pass time. Without him I don't know if I would havemadeit this far, not only did he lend me the money to finish high school, he hasalwaysbeen there for me when I needed financial help in rod making.All that aside you must understand how important this taper is to me! Iwill bebuilding this rod blonde, first time for this "flamed" guy and I was looking forsomething longer than my "usual" preference (for those who know me well)Here is what I was looking for: He is a big man so I figured a rod of 7 to8foot (that's as far as I would go!) in the 4 to 6 wt (he is a casual fishermanso Ididn't figure on smaller, specialty,at least here in Nova Scotia, lines was inorder) 2 pcs and blonde(my wife is blonde and constantly after me to buildblondei.e. naked cane). I couldn't see myself building one of Mr. Young'smasterpiecesblonde somehow....I need help??? so I was thinking perhaps a Leonard 38 ACMor 39 DH,Dickerson 7612 or 7613 maybe a SirD, or whatever you could refresh myinterest in???Please, help me out, keep in mind that he is a novice caster and this istruthfullymy first blonde rod.As always,thanks,Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 6 23:02:15 2001 f2752De16840 Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:01:45 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: link to pic of "The Great Southern mkII" Mike,Maybe all but the skinny guy! Harry "Roberts, Michael" wrote: As for the photo, handsome devils don't youthink : ) Mike --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Mar 6 23:15:32 2001 f275FSe17308 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:14:55 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "Roberts, Michael" rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: link to pic of "The Great Southern mkII" Hi Harry,I've got a brass headed priest with a split bamboo handle (nodeless ofcourse) which I should introduce you to after a comment like that : )Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: link to pic of "The Great Southern mkII" Mike,Maybe all but the skinny guy! Harry "Roberts, Michael" wrote: As for the photo, handsome devils don't youthink : ) Mike --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 23:35:33 2001 f275ZRe17944 2001 21:35:29 PST Subject: Re: Help me!!!!! shawn, i would strongly suggest william waara's7'6"5wt(ithink it works well as a 6wt) that was built going to be used as the grand experiment in canadathis year. i have made a lot of these rods and is therod i put into the hands of novice casters, and theylike it. my second choice would be a para 14. timothy --- Shawn Pineo wrote:All,as many fine tapers as I have sampled, I needyour help. I have beencommissioned by my wife to build a rod for my fatherin laws 60th birthday.Seemssimple enough right??? The problem is, I want thisto be a special rod for him, theone who stood behind me (financially and morally)when I chose to start building rodsads a business as well as a pass time. Without him Idon't know if I would have madeit this far, not only did he lend me the money tofinish high school, he has alwaysbeen there for me when I needed financial help inrod making.All that aside you must understand howimportant this taper is to me! I will bebuilding this rod blonde, first time for this"flamed" guy and I was looking forsomething longer than my "usual" preference (forthose who know me well)Here is what I was looking for: He is a bigman so I figured a rod of 7 to 8foot (that's as far as I would go!) in the 4 to 6 wt(he is a casual fisherman so Ididn't figure on smaller, specialty,at least here inNova Scotia, lines was inorder) 2 pcs and blonde(my wife is blonde andconstantly after me to build blondei.e. naked cane). I couldn't see myself building oneof Mr. Young's masterpiecesblonde somehow....I need help??? so I was thinkingperhaps a Leonard 38 ACM or 39 DH,Dickerson 7612 or 7613 maybe a SirD, or whatever youcould refresh my interest in???Please, help me out, keep in mind that he is anovice caster and this is truthfullymy first blonde rod.As always,thanks, Shawn ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Mar 7 00:02:12 2001 f2762Be18741 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Ferrules Don Burns has a ton of big boys that might fit... Don, you there? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrules Howdy... I am in need again. Anyone out there have a set of unserrated17/64ths ferrules they'd let go of? I need to buy a set and would ratherhave them not serrated, unless they're serrated for a penta. Doing arestoration and I don't have any NS that big! You know how us short rodfolks are! Tiny rods, tiny ferrules... *S* Thanks,Bob from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Mar 7 05:02:49 2001 f27B2me23503 f27B2b063412; Subject: Re: Great Southern pic TonyYeah, so do I!Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Great Southern pic Tony:I appreciate you putting faces on familiar names.Hope to meet with you all some day.Ed from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Mar 7 05:07:01 2001 f27B6xe23692 f27B6s064088; Subject: Re: Wetstones Hello, HarryI must say that the only thing I had against the Tu/C tipped irons was theneed to be better equipped than I am to sharpen them; they are probablyexcellent irons, but not in my armamentarium, I'm afraid.On the other hand I like and buy and use their HSS models, so far only in myStanley plane. They are really top blokes to deal with, and really helpful.Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wetstones Hi Peter,I corresponded quite a bit with the good folks at Woodworks Book andToolabout creating those carbide tipped irons. Sorry to hear they neverworked out paste, andthat's what I use.I wish I had the chance to give those stones a proper trial. I maydropWoodworks a note to see if they have extra's they would like me to tryout. Harry Peter McKean wrote: In fact, when I trialled some plane irons for Woodworks Book and Tool,Iwas completely underwhelmed by their Tu/C only for that reason - Icouldn'tsharpen them on my present stones, and as a hobbyist was not about totoolup with a lot of new tech various coloured stones just to sharpen theblades. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Mar 7 07:13:10 2001 f27DD9e25030 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 06:29:38 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Mike, The secret is forced air circulation. Keeps the oven all contents of theoven @ the same temperature. Normal ovens do not have the convectionstyleof fan system.And what did you do about the radiant heat. Place the strips ontosomething where the strips didn't see the glow? catch ya' Don At 09:51 AM 3/7/01 +0800, you wrote:Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. from channer@frontier.net Wed Mar 7 07:30:29 2001 f27DUSe25445 Subject: Re: Help me!!!!! Shawn;Anything Dickerson, pick your length and line weight.John Shawn Pineo wrote: All,as many fine tapers as I have sampled, I need your help. I have beencommissioned by my wife to build a rod for my father in laws 60thbirthday.Seemssimple enough right??? The problem is, I want this to be a special rod forhim, theone who stood behind me (financially and morally) when I chose to startbuilding rodsads a business as well as a pass time. Without him I don't know if I wouldhave madeit this far, not only did he lend me the money to finish high school, he hasalwaysbeen there for me when I needed financial help in rod making.All that aside you must understand how important this taper is to me! Iwill bebuilding this rod blonde, first time for this "flamed" guy and I was lookingforsomething longer than my "usual" preference (for those who know me well)Here is what I was looking for: He is a big man so I figured a rod of 7to 8foot (that's as far as I would go!) in the 4 to 6 wt (he is a casual fishermanso Ididn't figure on smaller, specialty,at least here in Nova Scotia, lines was inorder) 2 pcs and blonde(my wife is blonde and constantly after me to buildblondei.e. naked cane). I couldn't see myself building one of Mr. Young'smasterpiecesblonde somehow....I need help??? so I was thinking perhaps a Leonard 38ACM or 39 DH,Dickerson 7612 or 7613 maybe a SirD, or whatever you could refresh myinterest in???Please, help me out, keep in mind that he is a novice caster and this istruthfullymy first blonde rod.As always,thanks,Shawn from jcole10@juno.com Wed Mar 7 08:19:20 2001 f27EJJe26629 09:19:05 EST Subject: West Yellowstone I will be in West Yellowstone most of the summer and would appreciate anyinformation I can get with about streams to fish and flys to use. Thanks John Cole from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Mar 7 09:04:17 2001 f27F4Ge28348 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Hock Group Order #2 Group Hock Order Participants, The group Hock order #2 has just arrived and I will package them and sendthem out tommorrow. All orders will be filled, no one's orders werebackordered. After you've had a chance to try the new A2 blades out, please let me knowhow you like them. I've cc'ed the RM list here on this message as there was a question aboutthe delay in fulfilling this group order. Several of the reasons, (as thegroup knows that were beyond my control) but I won't go into detail here. In the event you ordered the wrong blades, I should be able to exchange theblade with the correct one as I've ordered several of every model for theblock planes. Rest assured that everyone will receive their nice sharp blades shortly... Happy planing!!! Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from Canerods@aol.com Wed Mar 7 09:14:05 2001 f27FE5e28816 Subject: Re: Ferrules --part1_54.10f2da32.27d7aa36_boundary In a message dated 3/6/01 4:33:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,caneman@clnk.com writes: Howdy... I am in need again. Anyone out there have a set of unserrated17/64ths ferrules they'd let go of? I need to buy a set and would ratherhave them not serrated, unless they're serrated for a penta. Doing arestoration and I don't have any NS that big! You know how us short rodfolks are! Tiny rods, tiny ferrules... *S* Thanks,Bob Bob, I might be able to help you. - are you sure you don't want larger? I've got some up to the 20/64ths or 21/64ths - just right for a light 25 wt fly rod. Don --part1_54.10f2da32.27d7aa36_boundary In a message dated3/6/01 4:33:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, caneman@clnk.com writes: Howdy... I am in ratherhave them not serrated, unless they're serrated for a penta. short rodfolks are! Tiny rods, tiny ferrules... *S* Thanks,Bob Bob, I might be able to help you. - are you sure you don't want larger? I've got some up to the 20/64ths or 21/64ths - just right for a light 25wt Don --part1_54.10f2da32.27d7aa36_boundary-- from icezeb@tutopia.com Wed Mar 7 13:58:56 2001 f27Jwue10155 3AA356660004D673 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 7 Mar 200111:58:50 -0800 Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:58:46 +0000 Subject: information This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A729.D63E9FE0 C=E9sar ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A729.D63E9FE0 C=E9sar ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0A729.D63E9FE0-- from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Wed Mar 7 14:34:25 2001 f27KYOe11829 Subject: Re: silk lines Wow. The board for making my furled leaders is pretty long. I've beenthinking about experimenting with an even longer one. But If we make silklines this way, we'd need to borrow the Sears Tower or maybe the SpaceNeedle! Ray Several days (weeks?) ago, someone posted a message with a sidecommentaboutmaking their own silk fly lines. Prehaps they were joking. But if not, Iwould like to gather information on the procedure if it is available. Ihavebeen making furled leaders since I found a web site with instructions andIam very pleased with the performance. I wonder if this technique could beadapted to make a full length line? from thogan@rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 7 15:12:11 2001 f27LCAe13606 f27L9Jb11556 Subject: Inexpensive Oven parts I am in the process of building a new oven, and was shocked by the price ofthe mica strip heating elements. I found (I think), a very inexpensivesubstiture. I had an old toaster oven with ceramic heating elements. Thereare basically 4 elements, each about 12 inches long. The original price ofthe toaster oven (Proctor Silex) was less than 20 dollars. Of course I get athermostat with this as well. I will putting this together soon, and willlet you know how this works. I plan on building a normalduct/insulation/duct type enclosure as well.One extra was the glass door, which will make a nice flattening surface forsharpening stones and plane blades.Thoughts?Taylor from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Mar 7 19:49:38 2001 f281nWe21564 Subject: Re: Dickerson 6611 In a message dated 03/06/2001 1:28:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, dutcher@email.msn.com writes: Yes they are Ray Bergman's rods. I have pictures of four or five Dickerson and also he had a couple of Leonards,also Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Mar 7 20:02:15 2001 f28225e21890 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Help me!!!!! Friends,I have a winner! after much debate I have decided to go with aDickerson7613, the 1952 heavier version. Thanks everyone for your advice andstories. It'samazing, I can usually pick a rod for a customer easily, but when it comes tomy Fatherin law I was stumped!Has anyone any experience with this taper or the original guidespacing?? Ihave split out enough strips to build one for myself too so that means I'llhave 2Dickersons in my stable now, I have a 6611 ready to glue up on my bench.Seemed weird splitting out a blonde rod for the first time. I think I'llstillstick mainly to flamed rods though. ;^)Once again thanks for your help,Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: All,as many fine tapers as I have sampled, I need your help. I have beencommissioned by my wife to build a rod for my father in laws 60thbirthday.Seemssimple enough right??? The problem is, I want this to be a special rod forhim, theone who stood behind me (financially and morally) when I chose to startbuilding rodsads a business as well as a pass time. Without him I don't know if I wouldhave madeit this far, not only did he lend me the money to finish high school, he hasalwaysbeen there for me when I needed financial help in rod making.All that aside you must understand how important this taper is to me! Iwill bebuilding this rod blonde, first time for this "flamed" guy and I was lookingforsomething longer than my "usual" preference (for those who know me well)Here is what I was looking for: He is a big man so I figured a rod of 7to 8foot (that's as far as I would go!) in the 4 to 6 wt (he is a casual fishermanso Ididn't figure on smaller, specialty,at least here in Nova Scotia, lines was inorder) 2 pcs and blonde(my wife is blonde and constantly after me to buildblondei.e. naked cane). I couldn't see myself building one of Mr. Young'smasterpiecesblonde somehow....I need help??? so I was thinking perhaps a Leonard 38ACM or 39 DH,Dickerson 7612 or 7613 maybe a SirD, or whatever you could refresh myinterest in???Please, help me out, keep in mind that he is a novice caster and this istruthfullymy first blonde rod.As always,thanks,Shawn from Spico81@aol.com Thu Mar 8 01:07:33 2001 f2877We27465 Subject: splicing glue --part1_fc.3503050.27d889aa_boundary I was test splicing some pieces today for my first nodeless rod and as a test I used some Gorrilla Glue to glue a splice together. When the glue dried I found I had a splice that had an invisible glue line and the piece seemed to bow evenly when bent. It also seemed pretty darn strong. Does anybodyknow if there are any downsides to using Gorrilla Glue on splices? Also, is it compatible with other glues such as URAC 185? Thanks,Sam --part1_fc.3503050.27d889aa_boundary I was test splicing somepieces today for my first nodeless rod and as a test dried I found I had a splice that had an invisible glue line and the piece seemedto is it compatible with other glues such as URAC 185? Thanks, --part1_fc.3503050.27d889aa_boundary-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Mar 8 07:46:41 2001 f28Dkee03108 HAA20093 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:46:42 Subject: Re: splicing glue Sam, I've made about 10 nodeless rods spliced with Gorilla glue. I havehad one splice failure during planing and one on a finished rod(fished hard) where I made a mistake in arranging the strips sothat I had 2 adjacent splices meeting at the same spot (don't dothis.) I know some people have tested Gorilla and similar PU glues for splicesand did not find them suitable. This has not been my experience. Itseasy to use, tough and heat resistant. That's my $0.02......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 Spico81@aol.com wrote: I was test splicing some pieces today for my first nodeless rod and as atest I used some Gorrilla Glue to glue a splice together. When the glue dried I found I had a splice that had an invisible glue line and the piece seemed to bow evenly when bent. It also seemed pretty darn strong. Does anybodyknow if there are any downsides to using Gorrilla Glue on splices? Also, is it compatible with other glues such as URAC 185? Thanks,Sam from caneman@clnk.com Thu Mar 8 09:26:31 2001 f28FQUe06475 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:26:40 -0600 Subject: ferrules Guys, thanks for all the gracious offers, but I have a set of ferrulescoming now. As always, the list is a great bunch and to all those that wentscrounging through their boxes to look for what I needed, I reallyappreciate it. Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 8 09:28:57 2001 f28FSve06687 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Any UK builders out there Hi, Would you give me a shout - may have some business for you. catch ya' Don from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Mar 8 10:11:44 2001 f28GBhe08580 KAA05759 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:11:45 Subject: Wax buildup in dip tube? One of the disadvantages of building only the occasional rod,is that you may find weird things when you get your tools outof storage. After finishing my last rod, probably 6 months ago, I emptied thevarnish out of the dip tube, rinsed the tube with mineral spirits,and then filled it with mineral spirits (the cheap stuff), put on cap and put it in the basement corner. When I got it out last nightand dumped out the thinner, there was left a thick waxy buildupat the top of the tube, where some of the spirits had evaporated.I scraped out probably 3 tablespoons of soft buttery wax. Aftercleaning out the tube as well as I could I filled it with varnishand didn't seem to have any problems with the first dip. Any idea what this stuff is and what I did wrong to get it? I thinkdipping may be more trouble than its worth for someone who only doesa couple hobby rods a year.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Thu Mar 8 15:26:51 2001 f28LQpe20215 Subject: Re: Inexpensive Oven parts -----Original Message----- Subject: Inexpensive Oven parts I am in the process of building a new oven, and was shocked by the price ofthe mica strip heating elements. I found (I think), a very inexpensivesubstiture. I had an old toaster oven with ceramic heating elements.There>are basically 4 elements, each about 12 inches long. The original priceofthe toaster oven (Proctor Silex) was less than 20 dollars. Of course I getathermostat with this as well. I will putting this together soon, and willlet you know how this works. I plan on building a normalduct/insulation/duct type enclosure as well.One extra was the glass door, which will make a nice flattening surface forsharpening stones and plane blades.Thoughts?Taylor Taylor, You get an A+ for resourcefulness. Please report back and let us know howthe oven works out. I too have an old toaster oven laying about and wasconsidering doing the same thing with it. I ended up making an heat- gunoven instead, but reserve the right to tear apart the oven if deemednecessary. Keith from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Mar 8 15:45:43 2001 f28Ljge21572 Subject: Re: Wax buildup in dip tube? Frank,Anytime that you have mineral spirits sitting like that and it evaporates you will get this buildup. I am not sure but I would think that it is the oils that are in the thinners. Now my thinking on coming up with this idea stems from this. You can use this thinner after you strain the crud out of it to clean brushes and such for your initial cleanings but if you don't do a final rinse in NEW thinner your brushes will be stiff when you next use them. This doesn't hurt the brush because as soon as you stick it back into OIL based paint again the bristles loosen up. When I was an apprentice years ago we always had buckets of old thinner sitting in the shop waiting for the paint pigments to settle out so we could reuse it.Bret from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Mar 8 18:15:20 2001 (may be forged)) f290FKe26822 (5.5.2653.19) "'dmanders@telusplanet.net'", jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heat tempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 8 18:34:11 2001 f290YBe27370 srv.alltel.net Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:34:12 -0600 , , Subject: Re: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Radiant heat will char the outside of the cane. It will make itdarker.Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and errorwilldetermine whether the oven will work. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Mar 8 19:46:53 2001 f291kpe28774 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:46:11 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "Roberts, Michael","'dmanders@telusplanet.net'", jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heat andsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more than theside facing away. For the most even results the element should be concealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heat tempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. from splitcane@home.com Thu Mar 8 19:52:26 2001 f291qPe29013 Subject: Japanning Hello, I was wondering if any one knows the process of Japanning metal (i.e. Ferrules, Planes and the such ) I understand this is a hot dip asphaltbased product? Any info would be great, thanks for the time... Dave from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Mar 8 19:53:06 2001 (may be forged)) f291r6e29103 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Well yes, Dick, but perhaps I didn't ask my question clearly. What's theproblem with exposing cane to the limited radiant heat involved in a homeoven (assuming one isn't dumb enough to set it on broil)? I've had goodsuccess producing evenly tempered strips in a home oven, but thoughtmaybethere was something new here. -----Original Message----- dmanders@telusplanet.net; jmpio@nhbm.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Radiant heat will char the outside of the cane. It will make itdarker.Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and errorwilldetermine whether the oven will work. from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Mar 8 20:12:22 2001 f292CMe29703 Subject: Re: Japanning I don't think this is the "offical" process, but I've read somewhere that flatblack paint with a clear coat works as a substitute. FWIW mac Dave Collyer wrote: Hello, I was wondering if any one knows the process of Japanning metal (i.e. Ferrules, Planes and the such ) I understand this is a hot dip asphaltbased product? Any info would be great, thanks for the time... Dave from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Mar 8 20:21:48 2001 (may be forged)) f292Lme00062 (5.5.2653.19) "'Kling, Barry W.'" ,"'dmanders@telusplanet.net'" ,jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something with radiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens in myexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one at first,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons home ovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine is constantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's not fandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as it isn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people's methodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the oven every10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodeless makerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heat andsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more than theside facing away. For the most even results the element should be concealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heat tempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. from drinkr@voicenet.com Thu Mar 8 20:29:21 2001 f292TLe00440 (207.103.93.60) Subject: Ferruled Leader Question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0A816.A78F30E0 I have finally gotten around to creating some ferruled leaders afterwatching Tom Smithwick demonstrate them about 2 years ago in Carlisle. Iwas wondering what the is best way to attach the now knotted butt end tothefly line . Thanks in advance David Rinker from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 8 21:46:24 2001 f293kMe02104 Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens "'Kling, Barry W.'" ,"'dmanders@telusplanet.net'" ,jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Barry is right a kitchen oven does work well for nodeless rods. You need (Ineeded) to place the chopsticks on a cookie tray and not just stick them onthe racks but it works fine for me.Also it doesn't matter if the thermostat is inaccurate as long as it'sinaccurate the same way every time which it should be. What I mean is itdoesn't matter if it keeps the oven at an avg temp of 350 or 352 or 325 or400 or what ever when the dial says 375 as long as it's repeatable becauseall you do is choose a temp on the dial then define the correct times basedon test results and use it the same way every time just as you need to dowith any oven configuration.Also, kitchen ovens may be getting a bad wrap as far as being inaccurate inthe first place. Mike Roberts had access to a laboratory grade remotesensing thermometer and we tested my poor old electric kitchen oven thatwound up switching off at 205c and back on at 195 c about 10 times beforeit was declared bang on to avg 200c which was exactly what the gauge saidit was so they may in fact not all be as bad as you may think.Using this method my times were 200c for 20min on the middle rack on abiscuit (cookie) tray. You'd need to find your own times for the reasonsgiven above as well as different oven volumes would effect things I'dimagine but it works fine. Tony At 08:21 PM 3/8/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something withradiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens in myexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one at first,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons homeovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine is constantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's not fandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as it isn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people's methodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the oven every10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodeless makerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 PM jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heat andsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more than theside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 9 March 2001 8:15 jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heat tempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Mar 8 22:33:16 2001 f294XFe03458 Subject: Re: Furled Leader Question Hi Dave - A three turn nail knot works fine for this connection. You can coat with pliobond or epoxy for a smoother joint, but it probably is not necessary. You can also tie a surgeon's loop in the leader butt and use a loop to loop connection, but it's a bit bulky. I like the simple knot, personally from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Mar 9 08:29:43 2001 f29EThe10673 Subject: Pack rods Okay, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here. Haven't finished the firstrod, and I'm already thinking about the second. I do a lot of backpackingwhere I fish small streams. I've always wanted a really small pack rod, Ieven seriously considered a 5-piece Winston 8' graph**e rod last summer.What I really want is a 7' 3-4 wt, 3 piece. My question is, on a rod thatshort, it seems that using two ferrules would have a couple of undesirablecharacteristics, excess weight slowing the rod, and two significant flatspots. Is anyone building short 3-piece rods and how do they cast? from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Mar 9 08:36:40 2001 (may be forged)) f29Eade11074 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Pack rods I'm not one of the aged veterans of the list but I think I've learned somethings about this. I like Granger/Phillipson style compound tapers, and theyhappen to have stiffer areas about where the ferrules go for a 3-piece. Imade a modified 7' 3pc SirD and I really like it, though I think it's moreof a 4/5 wt. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Pack rods Okay, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here. Haven't finished the firstrod, and I'm already thinking about the second. I do a lot of backpackingwhere I fish small streams. I've always wanted a really small pack rod, Ieven seriously considered a 5-piece Winston 8' graph**e rod last summer.What I really want is a 7' 3-4 wt, 3 piece. My question is, on a rod thatshort, it seems that using two ferrules would have a couple of undesirablecharacteristics, excess weight slowing the rod, and two significant flatspots. Is anyone building short 3-piece rods and how do they cast? from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Mar 9 08:55:39 2001 f29Etce11898 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Pack rods Hi, I just finished a 3 pice Driggs variant for #3/4 wt. I have not beenable to fish it yet (its still snow here) but I've lawn cast it with bothDT3 and DT4, it cast both beautyful. regardsdanny From: jmpio@nhbm.com Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:32:02 -0700 Subject: Pack rods Okay, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here. Haven't finished the firstrod, and I'm already thinking about the second. I do a lot of backpackingwhere I fish small streams. I've always wanted a really small pack rod, Ieven seriously considered a 5-piece Winston 8' graph**e rod last summer.What I really want is a 7' 3-4 wt, 3 piece. My question is, on a rod thatshort, it seems that using two ferrules would have a couple of undesirablecharacteristics, excess weight slowing the rod, and two significant flatspots. Is anyone building short 3-piece rods and how do they cast? from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Mar 9 09:46:05 2001 f29Fk4e13918 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:39:46 -0800 Subject: Silk Line maintenance f29Fk5e13919 Reed, Very nice web site your son developed. For me, subtle elegance wins everytime when compared against whistles and bells. I was reading the maintenance portion of the Phoenix and the Thebault lines. The Thebault line seems to need a fairly time consuming break in period,greasing the line about every hour for the first 20-30 hours of fishing andneeding to be dry before applying dressing. Then every 3-4 hrs. of fishingthereafter another treatment. The Phoenix line recommends the red Mucilin once a day without a break inperiod. Does anyone know if this is just a difference in the manufacturing processand/or Phoenix lines are pre-treated prior to packaging? Thanks. Chris from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 9 10:01:56 2001 f29G1te14491 hme0.telusplanet.net Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:01:46 -0700 Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens "'Kling, Barry W.'" , jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Tony, How did you measure the temperature throughout the oven. Is thethermometera self contained unit that you can stick in various places and measure thetemperature or did you drill a number of holes in the oven wall anddetermine the temperature @ each point?In the first oven I built used a long heating element alongside the cane,I drilled a number of holes and mounted 8 thermometers with the bulbsextending into the oven. Found out right quick that there was a varianceof 50F from middle to end mostly because most elements are not resistivewithin 6" of the end. This made the center of the cane a whole lot hotterthan the ends. This type of oven where the heat source is not remote fromthe cane will yield these results time after time. from the results I got,I now know why Garrison and now others flip the cane end for end. I thinkthe flipping does little more than allow some of the hot air to spill outand be replaced with cooler air hence starting a circulation pattern thattends to make the air within the oven somewhat homogenous. Clearly, it isnot truly homogenous, but nearly so. Still, it will yield uneven resultsdepending on the time you have the oven door open. Of course, on theshorter strips that the nodeless guys use, variance of temperatures willnot be as profound. Most builders tend to get a system and stick with it - their system works get my oven system a lot more accurate. I use a oven thermostat as acontroller for one of the two elements. I've found with fine tuning,thermostat variances of -/+ 2C were possible.Now if you don't think it matters, go for it. I don't think it does awhole lot. from the testing I've done that has been replicated by a numberof others, tempering doesn't do a whole lot. Still!!!! regards, Don At 11:14 AM 3/9/01 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Barry is right a kitchen oven does work well for nodeless rods. You need (Ineeded) to place the chopsticks on a cookie tray and not just stick them onthe racks but it works fine for me.Also it doesn't matter if the thermostat is inaccurate as long as it'sinaccurate the same way every time which it should be. What I mean is itdoesn't matter if it keeps the oven at an avg temp of 350 or 352 or 325 or400 or what ever when the dial says 375 as long as it's repeatable becauseall you do is choose a temp on the dial then define the correct times basedon test results and use it the same way every time just as you need to dowith any oven configuration.Also, kitchen ovens may be getting a bad wrap as far as being inaccurate inthe first place. Mike Roberts had access to a laboratory grade remotesensing thermometer and we tested my poor old electric kitchen oven thatwound up switching off at 205c and back on at 195 c about 10 timesbeforeit was declared bang on to avg 200c which was exactly what the gauge saidit was so they may in fact not all be as bad as you may think.Using this method my times were 200c for 20min on the middle rack on abiscuit (cookie) tray. You'd need to find your own times for the reasonsgiven above as well as different oven volumes would effect things I'dimagine but it works fine. Tony At 08:21 PM 3/8/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something withradiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens in myexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one atfirst,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons homeovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine isconstantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's not fandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as it isn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people'smethodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the ovenevery10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodeless makerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 PM jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heat andsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more thantheside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 9 March 2001 8:15 jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 9 10:03:14 2001 f29G3De14627 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:51:45 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly an absolute statement was lost one you. Tis too bad. If you insiston doing what you're doing, your going to continue what your making.After a few more rods and a little reflection, you'll come around. Don At 08:21 PM 3/8/01 -0600, you wrote: No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something withradiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens in myexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one atfirst,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons homeovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine isconstantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's not fandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as it isn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people'smethodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the ovenevery10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodeless makerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 PM jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heat andsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more thantheside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 9 March 2001 8:15 jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Mar 9 10:05:02 2001 (may be forged)) f29G52e14855 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Don -- Are you absolutely right about everything, or only bamboo rods? -- Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:51:45 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly an absolute statement was lost one you. Tis too bad. If you insiston doing what you're doing, your going to continue what your making.After a few more rods and a little reflection, you'll come around. Don At 08:21 PM 3/8/01 -0600, you wrote: No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something withradiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens in myexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one atfirst,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons homeovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine isconstantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's notfandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as it isn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people'smethodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the ovenevery10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodeless makerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 PM jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heat andsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more thantheside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 9 March 2001 8:15 jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and errorwilldetermine whether the oven will work. from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 9 10:12:40 2001 f29GCde15350 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:26:30 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly you seem not to understand that I've spent a considerable amountof money [ the last oven cost over $ 1000 to fabricate and equip] + anumber of years attempting to understand this tempering thing. What Ilearned was in my original post. You can take it for whatever it is worth.When you get the time/equipment together and are willing to do thework,perhaps you will understand. Till then, enjoy what you are doing.As far as the last sentence, I first inclination was an invite out behindthe barn. Why don't I chalk it up to life experience. catch ya' Don At 09:52 AM 3/9/01 -0600, you wrote: Must be comforting to be so sure you're absolutely right. Are you rightabout everything or just bamboo rods? -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly an absolute statement was lost one you. Tis too bad. If you insiston doing what you're doing, your going to continue what your making.After a few more rods and a little reflection, you'll come around. Don At 08:21 PM 3/8/01 -0600, you wrote: No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something withradiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens in myexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one atfirst,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons homeovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine isconstantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's notfandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as it isn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people'smethodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the ovenevery10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodelessmakerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 PM jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heatandsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more thantheside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 9 March 2001 8:15 jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and error willdetermine whether the oven will work. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Mar 9 10:17:06 2001 (may be forged)) f29GH5e15694 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Good idea, I think we've had enough of this thread. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:26:30 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly you seem not to understand that I've spent a considerable amountof money [ the last oven cost over $ 1000 to fabricate and equip] + anumber of years attempting to understand this tempering thing. What Ilearned was in my original post. You can take it for whatever it is worth.When you get the time/equipment together and are willing to do the work,perhaps you will understand. Till then, enjoy what you are doing.As far as the last sentence, I first inclination was an invite out behindthe barn. Why don't I chalk it up to life experience. catch ya' Don At 09:52 AM 3/9/01 -0600, you wrote: Must be comforting to be so sure you're absolutely right. Are you rightabout everything or just bamboo rods? -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly an absolute statement was lost one you. Tis too bad. If you insiston doing what you're doing, your going to continue what your making.After a few more rods and a little reflection, you'll come around. Don At 08:21 PM 3/8/01 -0600, you wrote: No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something withradiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens in myexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one atfirst,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons homeovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine isconstantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's notfandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as it isn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people'smethodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the ovenevery10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodelessmakerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 PM jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heatandsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more thantheside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 9 March 2001 8:15 jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distribution throughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and errorwilldetermine whether the oven will work. from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Mar 9 10:52:38 2001 f29Gqbe17195 Subject: Re: Pack rods Hi all,Thought I might comment on this one. I've just finished an 8ft x 4pc x 5wtpack rod designed for packing into lakes in British Columbia. It's finishedwith brown wraps and subtle red tipping and has an amboyna n.s. reel seat.It doesn't seem to me that the weight of the extra ferrules will be anydeterent to the back packer since it casts just fine and doesn't make it allthat much heavier. I will say however, since I've done quite a bit of backpacking, that I when hiking I prefer to use an 8ft x 2piece rod so that therod case can be used as a walking stick as well as a prop to stand up thepack when it's taken off during rest and lunch breaks. The wonderful thingabout packing in to remote lakes is that you fish places where people areseldom seen and the fish get REALLY BIG!Ray Gould----- Original Message - ---- Subject: Pack rods Okay, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here. Haven't finished the firstrod, and I'm already thinking about the second. I do a lot of backpackingwhere I fish small streams. I've always wanted a really small pack rod, Ieven seriously considered a 5-piece Winston 8' graph**e rod last summer.What I really want is a 7' 3-4 wt, 3 piece. My question is, on a rod thatshort, it seems that using two ferrules would have a couple of undesirablecharacteristics, excess weight slowing the rod, and two significant flatspots. Is anyone building short 3-piece rods and how do they cast? from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Mar 9 11:00:42 2001 (may be forged)) f29H0fe17784 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Pack rods Ray -- Clearly the voice of an experienced packer. I've just about given up mysearch for a combination ice axe/fly rod/walking stick/tent pole/packprop/toothpick/tripod/back scratcher/latrine trowel. But about the rod....does it cast any differently from a comparable 2-piece?If so, how would you describe the differences? I'd love to see a photo, too,it sounds beautiful. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Pack rods Hi all,Thought I might comment on this one. I've just finished an 8ft x 4pc x 5wtpack rod designed for packing into lakes in British Columbia. It's finishedwith brown wraps and subtle red tipping and has an amboyna n.s. reel seat.It doesn't seem to me that the weight of the extra ferrules will be anydeterent to the back packer since it casts just fine and doesn't make it allthat much heavier. I will say however, since I've done quite a bit of backpacking, that I when hiking I prefer to use an 8ft x 2piece rod so that therod case can be used as a walking stick as well as a prop to stand up thepack when it's taken off during rest and lunch breaks. The wonderful thingabout packing in to remote lakes is that you fish places where people areseldom seen and the fish get REALLY BIG!Ray Gould----- Original Message - ---- Subject: Pack rods Okay, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here. Haven't finished the firstrod, and I'm already thinking about the second. I do a lot of backpackingwhere I fish small streams. I've always wanted a really small pack rod, Ieven seriously considered a 5-piece Winston 8' graph**e rod last summer.What I really want is a 7' 3-4 wt, 3 piece. My question is, on a rod thatshort, it seems that using two ferrules would have a couple of undesirablecharacteristics, excess weight slowing the rod, and two significant flatspots. Is anyone building short 3-piece rods and how do they cast? from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Mar 9 11:07:17 2001 f29H7He18234 Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Don, in my limited experience with rod building, I think that you have hitthis oven thing "right on." My first oven was a mica strip oven built by afriend who is retired from the heating/air conditioning business. He builtme an oven shell that was more like a refrigerator! Tight, well built, i.e.a lot of over kill. I used a simple mica strip for the heater. At each endthe temps were accurate. However, even with turning the strips, the middlesection was always far overcooked-- to the point of that portion of the rodbeing a consistently different color. Using the Nunneman type oven with aheat gun, the temp is consistent (within plus/minus 4 degrees) throughoutthe oven. Even here, I still do take the time to turn the strips "just incase." Your own oven idea is even better, but more than I have space for at themoment. I am considering having my "good" oven remodeled so it will ventand perhaps a fan of some type can be added. Indeed, whether any of thismeans anything or not is yet another story. Keep up the good work. Jerry Snider At 09:29 AM 03/09/2001 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:26:30 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly you seem not to understand that I've spent a considerable amountof money [ the last oven cost over $ 1000 to fabricate and equip] + anumber of years attempting to understand this tempering thing. What Ilearned was in my original post. You can take it for whatever it is worth.When you get the time/equipment together and are willing to do the work,perhaps you will understand. Till then, enjoy what you are doing.As far as the last sentence, I first inclination was an invite out behindthe barn. Why don't I chalk it up to life experience. catch ya' Don At 09:52 AM 3/9/01 -0600, you wrote: Must be comforting to be so sure you're absolutely right. Are you rightabout everything or just bamboo rods? -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Barry, Clearly an absolute statement was lost one you. Tis too bad. If you insiston doing what you're doing, your going to continue what your making.After a few more rods and a little reflection, you'll come around. Don At 08:21 PM 3/8/01 -0600, you wrote: No duh, as my daughters would say. Yes you can burn something withradiantheat. But this needn't be a real problem with bamboo in home ovens inmyexperience. I thought maybe there was something more to this one atfirst,but IMHO this completes the Zero earned by the Host of Reasons homeovensare supposed to Fail Completely: * They are too small -- Unless they're big enough. Mine is (it's a normalhome oven).* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant. -- Mine isconstantenough, and so was the even cheaper one in my last house.* There is no air circulation -- Not really true, tho of course it's notfandriven. In any case it doesn't matter if the result is good* The oven thermometer is usually approximate -- So? I temper until it'sdone, don't need the thermostat for that.* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat -- So what? As long as itisn'tenough to make the result uneven. I temper mine on the rack, without acookie sheet, but I suppose a sheet could be used. Like most absolute statements about the futility of other people'smethodsthis one is mistaken. It is important to rotate the bamboo in the ovenevery10 min or so at the nominal 375 degree setting I use. But nodelessmakerscan get really excellent results from a home oven. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 PM jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout theenclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heatandsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more thantheside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what isneededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 9 March 2001 8:15 jmpio@nhbm.com; 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:52 PM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens Hi Don,with all due respect I must disagree. I used to have access to afan forced electric oven which not only had an extremely accuratethermostat, but also maintained very even heat distributionthroughout.This was only a standard domestic oven too. CheersMike -----Original Message----- Hi,There is a whole host of reasons that commercial ovens or householdcounterparts are a complete failure in doing a decent job of heattempering.* They are too small* The temperature throughout the oven is not constant.* There is no air circulation* The oven thermometer is usually approximate* The cane maybe exposed to radiant heat Now if you are going to build nodeless, you can get by but just barely asthey occupy little space and that in the center where the heat isconcentrated. And this only applies if you place the cane onto a cookiesheet so that the cane is not exposed to radiant heat. Trial and errorwilldetermine whether the oven will work. from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Fri Mar 9 11:11:47 2001 f29HBle18676 Subject: making blackened stripping guides? Gentlemen, I have been around you lot long enough to know better than post a message about making black strippers, but if I wanted to do that I'll bet someone on the list can give me the inside track... :^) Removing chrome from a cheap Pac Bay guideI have a Pac Bay guide that's been soaking in Naval Jelly and I could hardly put a dent in the finish with a steel scraper. The "Jelly Co." says never to use that stuff on chrome. Is a Pac Bay guide chrome plated? Am I using the right stripper (phosphoric acid)? Should it take days? Blackening a stripped Pac Bay stripperAnybody ever done that? Making a stripper out of music wireIf I could solder it, I know I could blacken and finish music wire. Does it solder easily? Making a stripper out of some other wireWhat type have you used? Where did you buy it? How did you solder it? -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 9 11:44:26 2001 f29HiPe20491 Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:35:16 -0600 Subject: Re: making blackened stripping guides? To strip chrome plating, put the object in a 50/50 mix of muratic acid andwater. A guide should strip in only a very few minutes. BTW you can't chromestainless or nickel metals. Now you will have a guide that will rust quite easily ! You can polish it,and use cold gun bluing, but it will take constant attention. You can buy bulk stainless wire, that is spring tempered at www.travers.comif you want to make guides. GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 9 11:47:20 2001 f29HlIe20693 Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens "Roberts, Michael" ,"'Kling, Barry W.'" , jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" The thread is heating up. It is about ovens though :-) I will say righthere and now I have not aligned myself in any camp, I'm just writing what Ido and have done.The unit I used was one Mike Roberts was able to borrow from a laboratorymaned by a team affectionately known as "The Toxic Avengers" who hadneedof this sort of thing that had a 4-5 foot silicon (I believe) cable with aremote sensor that only measured the last 1 inch or so of the cable. WhenMike sees this he'll likely be able to provide the make and details ifinterested. It was a couple of years back we did this but I think it wascapable of measuring temps from room temp to several hundred degreescent.I'm hesitant to say it but it may have been beyond 1000c but regardless itwas accurate and had a continuous digital readout.I didn't measure any part of the oven apart from the region I used to holdthe strips because I basically didn't care what was going on apart fromthat area. The temp made it to 205c about 12 mins from a cold start,switched off till it reached 195c then back and forth. If I opened the doorlong enough to place a tray of chopsticks which I'd prepared earlier tosave time ;-) then shut the door again I think it took 2 mins to regain205c before switching off again. It did this bang on 205 and 195 every time I wrote it all down but in the end it just didn't make that much dif overall and I wound up just getting the oven to temp, stuck the tray in, setthe timer and watched TV or something till it was time, switched off theoven, lifted the door and left it there till it was cool. Everything alwayslook(s)ed the same and there was no dif between batches as far as I couldtell. I know there are convectional currents and stratification of air layerswithin the oven but if the same oven is used with the same thermostat andthe same level is used what ever results you get this time will be the sameas the next. It works fine as long as you do it the same way every time.That's for nodeless though and it's a whole new set of problems for fulllength ovens as you say. You are right in saying the element is hotter in the middle than the ends.I believe you are also right in suggesting the swapping ends does nothingmore than vent the oven so alter the air within it.As you suggest and I have thought all along it doesn't really matter beyondgetting the bamboo to look the way you like it from one batch to the nextand again as you write there have been a few trials and just personalexperience that hits you in the face that while heat treating makes adifference to not heat treating what dif it makes beyond a certain point isvanishing slight apart from appearance. The effort and time you've put intoyour oven will without doubt give better and more repeatable results than aheat gun type and I'm certain these results are reflected in your rodswhich is after all what the object of the game is.Still, I saw Todd Young's Burning Ring Of Fire unhappily not in operationbut the way Todd explained it the bamboo is plunged into a plasma of firethat sounded great fun in an asbestos suit kind of way to flame the bamboobut then it was heat treated in a very interesting oven that while itdidn't have a padlock Todd didn't offer to show and I was too polite to askabout. Now, does passing the bamboo through a pretty good facsimile ofKrakatoa MkII in any way affect the heat treated result? If it does itwould have to vary because of the density of the bamboo culms being passedthrough the plasma. Would the results be the same if the flaming waseliminated and the bamboo was heat treated alone?Garrison treated in what seems to be an amazingly short period of time. I think any system that will allow repeatable results however these resultsare achieved will work. I'm struck by the memory of a bench rest friend I used to shoot with whoalways laughed at me when I weighed each and every load of powder beforeseating the projectile and going to the next. He reckoned a half grain orso of powder made no dif at all and made a great show of using a powderthrower but he'd then seat the bullet and reject any for the bench thatdidn't measure up when he mic'd the OAL. We put up our little walls andargued the dif it all made but I'll bet if we ever swaped loads we'd stillshoot the same groups. Tony. At 09:18 AM 3/9/01 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Tony, How did you measure the temperature throughout the oven. Is thethermometera self contained unit that you can stick in various places and measure thetemperature or did you drill a number of holes in the oven wall anddetermine the temperature @ each point?In the first oven I built used a long heating element alongside the cane,I drilled a number of holes and mounted 8 thermometers with the bulbsextending into the oven. Found out right quick that there was a varianceof 50F from middle to end mostly because most elements are not resistivewithin 6" of the end. This made the center of the cane a whole lot hotterthan the ends. This type of oven where the heat source is not remote fromthe cane will yield these results time after time. from the results I got,I now know why Garrison and now others flip the cane end for end. I thinkthe flipping does little more than allow some of the hot air to spill outand be replaced with cooler air hence starting a circulation pattern thattends to make the air within the oven somewhat homogenous. Clearly, it isnot truly homogenous, but nearly so. Still, it will yield uneven resultsdepending on the time you have the oven door open. Of course, on theshorter strips that the nodeless guys use, variance of temperatures willnot be as profound. Most builders tend to get a system and stick with it - their system works get my oven system a lot more accurate. I use a oven thermostat as acontroller for one of the two elements. I've found with fine tuning,thermostat variances of -/+ 2C were possible.Now if you don't think it matters, go for it. I don't think it does awhole lot. from the testing I've done that has been replicated by a numberof others, tempering doesn't do a whole lot. Still!!!! regards, Don /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Fri Mar 9 14:14:39 2001 f29KEce26215 Subject: Re: making blackened stripping guides? Thanks! You guys are surely "men of the world." If you fellows ever want to go bar- hopping in Valparaiso, IN, just give me a call and we'll go to both of them ... we'll be home before they roll the sidewalks up, too!. HCl (muriatic acid) took the chrome off that Pac Bay guide in about 30 minutes. The grey, ugly metal left behind did not improve much, if any, with a "Brass Black" treatment. Bob's remarks about NS as guide material sound really good to me now. I can blacken and solder that stuff, and I do have a little lathe. Thanks again!-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 9 16:11:23 2001 f29MBMe02639 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Pack rods The last 2 rods I made are a Payne #98 7'#4 in 3 pc. and a Young Midge6'3" #4 also in 3 pc. Love 'em! Marty Okay, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here. Haven't finished the firstrod, and I'm already thinking about the second. I do a lot of backpackingwhere I fish small streams. I've always wanted a really small pack rod, Ieven seriously considered a 5-piece Winston 8' graph**e rod last summer.What I really want is a 7' 3-4 wt, 3 piece. My question is, on a rod thatshort, it seems that using two ferrules would have a couple of undesirablecharacteristics, excess weight slowing the rod, and two significant flatspots. Is anyone building short 3-piece rods and how do they cast? from channer@frontier.net Fri Mar 9 17:45:22 2001 f29NjLe05266 Subject: Re: making blackened stripping guides? Grayson;I think you have to decide if the investment in time is worth it . Storebought black strippers aren't very expensive. I like the TitaniumCarbide strippers from Pac Bay in 8mm, they turn a beatiful black colorwhen varnished over, or look kind of smokey chrome if you varnish theblank first, and they only cost around 3 or 4 bucks. I think I wouldjust save the chrome ones for another rod and just buy a black one forthis rod.John Grayson Davis wrote: Gentlemen, I have been around you lot long enough to knowbetter than post a message about making black strippers,but if I wanted to do that I'll bet someone on the listcan give me the inside track... :^) Removing chrome from a cheap Pac Bay guideI have a Pac Bay guide that's been soaking in Naval Jelly and I could hardly put a dent in the finish with a steelscraper. The "Jelly Co." says never to use that stuff onchrome. Is a Pac Bay guide chrome plated? Am I using theright stripper (phosphoric acid)? Should it take days? Blackening a stripped Pac Bay stripperAnybody ever done that? Making a stripper out of music wireIf I could solder it, I know I could blacken and finishmusic wire. Does it solder easily? Making a stripper out of some other wireWhat type have you used? Where did you buy it? How didyou solder it? -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Mar 9 18:12:02 2001 f2A0C2e05953 f2A0C3T15603 Subject: Fibertube Cap & Medalist Screw Does anyone have a trashed cardboard fibertube with a salvagable screwcap& press-on collar? 2 1/4" OD, 1 15/16" ID. Maybe we could trade forsomething you need. Also looking for a Pflueger Medalist (Oldest USA) reelfoot frame screw. Thanks, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://flysupplies.freeyellow.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Fri Mar 9 18:47:25 2001 f2A0lPe06660 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Ovens Though the temp in the oven may be whatever was chosen as the set point,thetemp coming off the element is quite a bit hotter, not to mention that it isall too obvious which side was nearest the heater element, which two sideswere perpendicular, and which side was the top. Should you find that yourelement has uneven heating, and most do, you will also notice a heat"pattern" on the bottom side of your bundle. M-D Barry, Radiant heat will char the outside of the cane. It will make itdarker.Dick Fuhrman From: "Kling, Barry W." What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry from jojo@ipa.net Fri Mar 9 18:56:08 2001 f2A0u7e07110 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Ovens Yep. My oven has a 4 7/8" ducted fan inside of it that turns 3200 rpm.Theoretically the air inside the oven is fully circulated at the rate ofonce per every 2 seconds. I doubt that, but it really is moving the air. Isolved the problem of consistent heat by coupling the elements, 2 - 750 W,to a P-I-D process controller. It not only maintains the temp to +/-- 2Ÿ,but returns the temp to set point as quickly as possible, without overshoot,when the door is opened and the load introduced. I lose 11Ÿ when placing 3 -3/8"bundles in the oven. Most of that is from heat soak of the bundles. Ittakes approx. 4 minutes +0/-- to come back up to set point. I can leave thedoor wide open, and the controller will bring the temp back to set point andhold it there. Hi Barry,in an oven where the element is exposed it becomes verydifficult to maintain a consistent temperature throughout the enclosure,even with a fan. Don made a really good analogy between radiant heat andsunburn. The side of an object facing a heat source will burn more thantheside facing away. For the most even results the element should beconcealedbehind a plate of some sort and a fan should be used for circulating theheat evenly. A heat gun oven is a pretty good example of what is neededprovided that the circulation of hot air is done in such a way as toeliminate hot spots.CheersMike -----Original Message----- What's the problem with radiant heat? Barry from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Mar 10 05:50:19 2001 f2ABoIe13342 0000 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Pack rods I would have but I wanted the rods to be #4 wt. rods rather then #5 asI feel both tapers in 2pc. are. So I left the tapers alone and made 3pc. rods. After casting both rods they are definitly 4 weights. Marty did you alter the taper any to make it a three piece? --- marty wrote:The last 2 rods I made are a Payne #98 7'#4 in 3 pc.and a Young Midge6'3" #4 also in 3 pc. Love 'em! Marty Okay, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here.Haven't finished the firstrod, and I'm already thinking about the second. Ido a lot of backpackingwhere I fish small streams. I've always wanted areally small pack rod, Ieven seriously considered a 5-piece Winston 8'graph**e rod last summer.What I really want is a 7' 3-4 wt, 3 piece. Myquestion is, on a rod thatshort, it seems that using two ferrules would havea couple of undesirablecharacteristics, excess weight slowing the rod,and two significant flatspots. Is anyone building short 3-piece rods andhow do they cast? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.http://auctions.yahoo.com/ from icezeb@tutopia.com Sat Mar 10 06:09:47 2001 f2AC9le13649 3AA76806000434C8 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 10 Mar 200104:09:43 -0800 Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:09:40 +0000 Subject: thank you friends This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C0A906.C061B2A0 Cesar ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C0A906.C061B2A0 ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C0A906.C061B2A0-- from bamboo@pa.net Sat Mar 10 06:50:37 2001 f2ACoae14140 Subject: Test please Ignore This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A938.54244620 Sorry Fellas ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A938.54244620 SorryFellas ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A938.54244620-- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sat Mar 10 07:16:14 2001 f2ADGDe14455 hme0.telusplanet.net Sat, 10 Mar 2001 06:16:08 -0700 Subject: RE: Heat Treating Ovens "Roberts, Michael" ,"'Kling, Barry W.'" , jmpio@nhbm.com,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Tony, While I think you made all the efforts that you could and still keep awife, drilling a number of holes through the oven wall and takingtemperatures throughout the oven would have revealed the sides are coolerthan the center. Still, for nodeless, it hardly matters as the pieces areshort and the temperature constant in the location where they are located. their length. If it matters, I haven't a clue. I think that tempering isjust one more of those "old wives tales". We all do it for some reason, but from the testing I've and others have done, it doesn't seem to matter awhole lot. Was talking to Bob Milward of the Milward Binder fame a month orso ago about the same thing. Bob is bringing a book out discussingtempering along with a host of other issues. He figures that temperingsomehow changes the cell structure and makes the cane less susceptible totaking a set. I didn't completely understand just what he was driving @ soI've have to wait for the book. And you're right - different strokes for different folks about the ovenbit. What works is what counts. Just been my experience that the acceptedoven designs with exception of Frank N's. leave a lot to be desired. catch ya' Don At 01:48 AM 3/10/01 +0800, Tony Young wrote:The thread is heating up. It is about ovens though :-) I will say righthere and now I have not aligned myself in any camp, I'm just writing what Ido and have done.The unit I used was one Mike Roberts was able to borrow from a laboratorymaned by a team affectionately known as "The Toxic Avengers" who hadneedof this sort of thing that had a 4-5 foot silicon (I believe) cable with aremote sensor that only measured the last 1 inch or so of the cable. WhenMike sees this he'll likely be able to provide the make and details ifinterested. It was a couple of years back we did this but I think it wascapable of measuring temps from room temp to several hundred degreescent.I'm hesitant to say it but it may have been beyond 1000c but regardless itwas accurate and had a continuous digital readout.I didn't measure any part of the oven apart from the region I used to holdthe strips because I basically didn't care what was going on apart fromthat area. The temp made it to 205c about 12 mins from a cold start,switched off till it reached 195c then back and forth. If I opened the doorlong enough to place a tray of chopsticks which I'd prepared earlier tosave time ;-) then shut the door again I think it took 2 mins to regain205c before switching off again. It did this bang on 205 and 195 every time I wrote it all down but in the end it just didn't make that much dif overall and I wound up just getting the oven to temp, stuck the tray in, setthe timer and watched TV or something till it was time, switched off theoven, lifted the door and left it there till it was cool. Everything alwayslook(s)ed the same and there was no dif between batches as far as I couldtell. I know there are convectional currents and stratification of air layerswithin the oven but if the same oven is used with the same thermostat andthe same level is used what ever results you get this time will be the sameas the next. It works fine as long as you do it the same way every time.That's for nodeless though and it's a whole new set of problems for fulllength ovens as you say. You are right in saying the element is hotter in the middle than the ends.I believe you are also right in suggesting the swapping ends does nothingmore than vent the oven so alter the air within it.As you suggest and I have thought all along it doesn't really matter beyondgetting the bamboo to look the way you like it from one batch to the nextand again as you write there have been a few trials and just personalexperience that hits you in the face that while heat treating makes adifference to not heat treating what dif it makes beyond a certain point isvanishing slight apart from appearance. The effort and time you've put intoyour oven will without doubt give better and more repeatable results than aheat gun type and I'm certain these results are reflected in your rodswhich is after all what the object of the game is.Still, I saw Todd Young's Burning Ring Of Fire unhappily not in operationbut the way Todd explained it the bamboo is plunged into a plasma of firethat sounded great fun in an asbestos suit kind of way to flame the bamboobut then it was heat treated in a very interesting oven that while itdidn't have a padlock Todd didn't offer to show and I was too polite to askabout. Now, does passing the bamboo through a pretty good facsimile ofKrakatoa MkII in any way affect the heat treated result? If it does itwould have to vary because of the density of the bamboo culms beingpassedthrough the plasma. Would the results be the same if the flaming waseliminated and the bamboo was heat treated alone?Garrison treated in what seems to be an amazingly short period of time. I think any system that will allow repeatable results however these resultsare achieved will work. I'm struck by the memory of a bench rest friend I used to shoot with whoalways laughed at me when I weighed each and every load of powder beforeseating the projectile and going to the next. He reckoned a half grain orso of powder made no dif at all and made a great show of using a powderthrower but he'd then seat the bullet and reject any for the bench thatdidn't measure up when he mic'd the OAL. We put up our little walls andargued the dif it all made but I'll bet if we ever swaped loads we'd stillshoot the same groups. Tony. At 09:18 AM 3/9/01 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Tony, How did you measure the temperature throughout the oven. Is thethermometera self contained unit that you can stick in various places and measure thetemperature or did you drill a number of holes in the oven wall anddetermine the temperature @ each point?In the first oven I built used a long heating element alongside the cane,I drilled a number of holes and mounted 8 thermometers with the bulbsextending into the oven. Found out right quick that there was a varianceof 50F from middle to end mostly because most elements are notresistivewithin 6" of the end. This made the center of the cane a whole lot hotterthan the ends. This type of oven where the heat source is not remotefromthe cane will yield these results time after time. from the results I got,I now know why Garrison and now others flip the cane end for end. I thinkthe flipping does little more than allow some of the hot air to spill outand be replaced with cooler air hence starting a circulation pattern thattends to make the air within the oven somewhat homogenous. Clearly, it isnot truly homogenous, but nearly so. Still, it will yield uneven resultsdepending on the time you have the oven door open. Of course, on theshorter strips that the nodeless guys use, variance of temperatures willnot be as profound. Most builders tend to get a system and stick with it - their system works get my oven system a lot more accurate. I use a oven thermostat asa>>controller for one of the two elements. I've found with fine tuning,thermostat variances of -/+ 2C were possible.Now if you don't think it matters, go for it. I don't think it does awhole lot. from the testing I've done that has been replicated by a numberof others, tempering doesn't do a whole lot. Still!!!! regards, Don /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Mar 10 07:35:03 2001 f2ADZ2e14775 +0100 Subject: Payne 102 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A970.7D86EE40 Listers Have today cast a 8 feet #5 rod, presumaly aPayne 102 taper. The thing was hollow builtand weighs 3 ounces!!!! It is one speedburner of a fast rod - I likeit though it is not a PHY.. Question: Does amyone have experiencewith the Payne 102? Is it a fast rod? regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A970.7D86EE40 Listers Have today cast a 8 feet #5 rod, = aPayne 102 taper. The thing was builtand weighs 3 ounces!!!! It is one speedburner of a fast rod - I = likeit though it is not a =PHY.. Question: Does amyone have =experiencewith the Payne 102? Is it a fast =rod? regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A970.7D86EE40-- from customrodbuilder@att.net Sat Mar 10 08:19:26 2001 f2AEJPe16539 mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net +0000 Subject: Getting Started This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0A929.E77A9E60 Hello, Started building rods about a year ago, and naturally my interests have =now turned to cane. Any insights on sources of information on building =bamboo? Thanks for any help. Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0A929.E77A9E60 Hello,Started building rods about a year ago, and naturally = help.Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0A929.E77A9E60-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Mar 10 08:37:52 2001 f2AEbpe17206 Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:37:48 -0500 "rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: Silk Line maintenance Chris The truth is both lines need a break in period - just likea pair of jeans - you need a couple of good days of hard fishing to make the lines soft and smooth. Once you have done thisthen they need minor maintaince - best rule is to dress the line when you go out - take a break after 4 hours - let line dry while you take the break and redress the line for the rest ofthe day - no problems at all. I am currently fishing some linesthat are over 50 years old with no problems - can you saythat about your plastic lines? Chris On Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:29:33 -0800, Christopher McDowell wrote: Reed, Very nice web site your son developed. For me, subtle elegance wins everytime when compared against whistles and bells. I was reading the maintenance portion of the Phoenix and the Thebault lines. The Thebault line seems to need a fairly time consuming break in period,greasing the line about every hour for the first 20-30 hours of fishing andneeding to be dry before applying dressing. Then every 3-4 hrs. of fishing thereafteranother treatment. The Phoenix line recommends the red Mucilin once a day without a break inperiod. Does anyone know if this is just a difference in the manufacturing processand/or Phoenix lines are pre-treated prior to packaging? Thanks. Chris from dutcher@email.msn.com Sat Mar 10 11:16:28 2001 f2AHGRe19266 Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:16:21 -0800 Subject: Re: thank you friends Hello Cesar, Glad to see you are back with us. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ing. Cesar Zeballos Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:06 PMSubject: thank you friends Hi friends: I have noticed that all are very attentive. I am already connected again with you and I thank their help. I had problems of configuration of my computer. Un abrazo Cesar from stpete@netten.net Sat Mar 10 11:33:32 2001 f2AHXVe19723 Subject: Tempering: was HT Ovens Guys (and gals), I have often wanted to jump in to the discussions on tempering cane andthe physical and chemical changes which may or may not occur with heattreating. I'm still not sure that I have much to offer but let me tellyou what I do know. My better half is a chemical engineer and has been employed for the last23 years with a company that processes raw plant fibers into specializedcellulose materials for industrial, food and paper manufacturer's. Hercompany's cellulose interests are with cotton fibers, softwood pulps,and hardwood pulps. Bamboo is a plant which has a very high percentageof cellulose compared to many plants. As you probably already know, thewoody parts of plants is composed almost entirely of two materials: 1)cellulose, the relatively long chained fibers and 2) lignin, which actsmuch like a glue holding the cellulose fibers together. Buckeye'sbusiness is primarily geared to chemically and physically cooking thewood pulps in order to break the lignin- cellulose bonds in the woodchips to refine cellulose for other products. Heating wood chips alters the properties of the lignin and causes some'cross-linking' of the cellulose fibers. I am convinced that heatingbamboo does more than drive out moisture. We are most likely alteringthe bonds of the cellulose chains themselves. Just the right amount ofheat and we increase the cross-linking between cellulose chains. Toomuch and we begin to break the bonds and possible destroy the integrityof the chains themselves. Don't ask me the magic temperature and time. I've asked my wife and shestarts throwing in so many factors and lignin types and celluloselengths that I gave up long ago of getting any kind of real answer fromher. After all, her job has been 23 years of full time work to find themagic answers for her own cellulose problems. What we are left with is to find the answers on our own. I don't havethe time, but the tempering study done by Lloyd Cross available athttp://members.home.net/fishoregon/cane/temper.html or through the linkat Gordon Johnson's page located athttp://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtml is a start. I think Mr.Cross leaves out many of the chemical changes caused by heat treatingand focuses on the carbonizing effect which gives us the change incoloration. I am convinced there is much more going on such as changesin chemical bonds between actual cellulose fiber chains. We may neverknow. Who would fund such a study? My position has been to believe that some amount of temperatureincreases the bonds between cellulose fibers and therefore the rigidityof the bamboo and the resistance to sets, but that too much breaks thebonds down. Trial and error. I heat treat and hope it is not too much. A final word about Ammonia Browntoning. You know that many 'plastics'such as screwdriver handles are actually cellulose. Yes, if you takepure cellulose, dissolve it in Sulfuric solutions, then regenerate thefibers through another chemical bath, you can get cellulose fibers whichare cross linked in all sorts of directions and form a solid 'plastic'.Think of rayon, cellophane, sausage casings, etc. All celluloseregenerated solids. Ammonia Browntoning may cause some of this andcrosslink fibers as well. Something to think about. Rick C. from stpete@netten.net Sat Mar 10 11:41:38 2001 f2AHfbe19924 Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:45:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Getting Started Jim, If you haven't been to http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html youshould. Read all the Tips, Tools, and FAQS, Taper Archive, RM Archives,and visit all the links. After that, go buy Wayne Cattanach's newbook. That should keep you up nights. Don't quit your day job. Rick C. Jim wrote: Hello, Started building rods about a year ago, and naturally my interestshave now turned to cane. Any insights on sources of information onbuilding bamboo? Thanks for any help. Jim from martinj@aa.net Sat Mar 10 12:08:46 2001 f2AI8je20437 Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:08:41 -0800 Subject: RE: Payne 102 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C0A94A.1CBE9520 I built one and am in the process of building another. A friend of minebuilt one the same time that I built my first one also. While they havedifferent actions, neither of them, I would consider to be fast. My friendswas fairly right on as far as the taper goes and his was a medium action.Definitely not fast. Mine was fairly fast but the butt section of mine wasoversize approx .005 to .008 over the section (so I guess it really wasn't aPayne 102 taper anyway. That was the plan though, on paper) Mine castscastsa DT 5 really well. Better than a WF6 or a WF5 also. It just likes a DTline...My new one will probably have a different action. (one of these days I'll beable to duplicate something!) Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 5:44 AM Subject: Payne 102 Listers Have today cast a 8 feet #5 rod, presumaly aPayne 102 taper. The thing was hollow builtand weighs 3 ounces!!!! It is one speedburner of a fast rod - I likeit though it is not a PHY.. Question: Does amyone have experiencewith the Payne 102? Is it a fast rod? regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C0A94A.1CBE9520 different actions, neither of them, I would consider to be fast. My = fairly right on as far as the taper goes and his was a medium action. = not fast. Mine was fairly fast but the butt section of mine was oversize = .005 to .008 over the section (so I guess it really wasn't a Payne 102 = anyway. That was the plan though, on paper) Mine casts casts a DT 5 = Better than a WF6 or a WF5 also. It just likes a DT =line... one will probably have a different action. (one of these days I'll be = duplicate something!) Martin= J=F8rgensenSent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 5:44 = RodmakersSubject: Payne 102Listers Have today cast a 8 feet #5 rod, = aPayne 102 taper. The thing was hollow= builtand weighs 3 ounces!!!! It is one speedburner of a fast rod - = likeit though it is not a =PHY.. experience rod? regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C0A94A.1CBE9520-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 10 12:20:51 2001 f2AIKoe20913 Subject: Sanding blocks List,Guys who have ordered blocks they will be going out this week. Again the response was more than I expected and I had to make some more. I want to thank everyone who has bought these and I hope you are all pleased withwhat they were. I am sorry to say that if anyone else wants one I am going to have to raise the price. All the wood I had to make these from was stuff I had left over from other projects and I will have to buy some more wood to make more. Thanks again Bret from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 10 13:12:18 2001 f2AJCIe21836 Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:02:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Tempering: was HT Ovens Very interesting Rick, and it brings back the photo of PHY and his "Ring ofFire", tempering his cane. So far as I know, this is the only heat treatmenthe used. If there is other knowledge on this, I for one would really like tohear of it. There seems little doubt that his cane was rendered better.GMA from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Mar 10 13:37:04 2001 f2AJb2e22328 (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Rod with Many Fathers --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.G9ZYFU138764=_=_=_ To All The Catskill Fly Fishing Center included a flyer in their winter news letter. It contains all the information on the raffle http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.html click on Catskill 2000 with the flyer and have attached it to this emailPls pass to anyone who would like to buy a ticket or knows of anyone interested. The rod will be at this years gathering Chris from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Mar 10 13:45:13 2001 f2AJjCe22798 2001 11:45:14 PST Subject: digger tapers all, does anyone have any digger tapers? i would surelike to build one. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.http://auctions.yahoo.com/ from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Mar 10 13:49:54 2001 f2AJnre22984 Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:49:13 -0500 Subject: Re: digger tapers The Pretty Good Rod one is on the rodmakers site. At 11:45 AM 3/10/2001 -0800, timothy troester wrote:all, does anyone have any digger tapers? i would surelike to build one. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from Canerods@aol.com Sat Mar 10 15:31:39 2001 f2ALVde24313 Subject: Coloring bamboo rod sections --part1_76.8741a6c.27dbf72e_boundary All, Some time back Chris McDowell told me about using Minwax stain sticks, a magic marker-like device, to match replacement bamboo rod sections. I'vealso used the stain on scarf repaired areas to match the coloring. Greg Hall, a fellow that I've done some scarf repairs wanted to experiment with other methods since the minwax stain didn't penetrate well and he came up with using Pantone pens. Don Burns PS - Greg's method is somewhat loosely quoted below: --part1_76.8741a6c.27dbf72e_boundary All, Some time back Chris McDowell told me about using Minwax stain sticks,a magic marker-like device, to match replacement bamboo rod sections.I've also used the stain on scarf repaired areas to match the coloring. Greg Hall, a fellow that I've done some scarf repairs wanted toexperiment with other methods since the minwax stain didn't penetrate well and hecame up with using Pantone pens. Don Burns PS - Greg's method is somewhat loosely quoted below: <<Of course you can pass on the Pantone Pen method. But first, afew guidelines. 1. I have only done this with Pantone brand pens so I don't know if other permanent type marker pens will work. Pantone pens are usually foundin art supply stores and sometimes in fly shops. 2. Make sure that your cane surface is clean and free of any residual finishes such as varnish etc.. 3. You should always experiment or practice on a piece or pieces of thesame or similar cane you want to stain. This includes sealing the stain withspar etc. In other words familiarize yourself with it thoroughly before you doit on the actual rod. 4. Seal the stained area with spar varnish that has not been thinnedwith mineral spirits. I just warmed it a little. I have not tried anything other than spar to seal the area. So other materials, shellac or polyurethaneetc. may work but I haven't yet tried them. The basic thing is be cautious and be sure that this will work for youand that you know how to get the desired effect. I used a Pantone Pen and let it sit for 3 days and then rubbed lightlywith 4/0 steel wool. It seems that the ink penetrated very well and doesn'tseem affected by the spar. Color # 154-T seems to be the best match forGrangers --part1_76.8741a6c.27dbf72e_boundary-- from live2huntfish@yahoo.com Sat Mar 10 17:47:02 2001 f2ANkwe26416 (216.241.172.21) Subject: RE: Dickerson info This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0A981.3D3DA7A0 Shawn, This is in response to a couple postings you made to the list. First, yourequested pictures of Dickerson rods, I have attached pictures of 4 rods. from top to bottom, 1)A Dickerson 861711, 2)A Dickerson 901812restored byJim Schaff, 3) A Dickerson 8014 built by Jim Schaff using a blank made byL.L. Dickerson and components from the Dickerson shop, 4) ACommemorativeDickerson 7613 taper by Jim Schaff. Jim did this rod from new cane,components from the Dickerson shop and planed the blank on the Dickersonforms. Jim bought Dickerson's shop from Tim Bedford, who bought outDickerson, and later teamed with Jerry Stein on the book "Dickerson, the Manand His Rods". I think it's safe to assume that Jim's work accuratelymatches the work of Dickerson as closely as is possible so I think thepictures are representative, even though all the work is not originalDickerson. You also requested guide spacing info for a 7613 so I measuredmine. Again, this was a rod built by Jim Schaff, but my guess would be thatit's pretty accurate. In any case, I've fished it quite a bit and it's apleasure so the guide spacing must be appropriate whether it matches theoriginal or not. from tip toward butt the measurements were: 4", 9-5/8",15-1/4", 21-1/4", 27-1/2", 34-1/4", 41-1/4", 43-3/4", 54-1/8", and 63-5/8".I only included a couple pictures because of file size. If there issomething specific you would like to see, let me know and I can try to getit. Al Rittlive2huntfish@yahoo.com